405: The Benevolence of the Powerful


00:00:00   So we are recording at an unusual time for the second consecutive week. What's going on here?

00:00:05   It's my fault because I got COVID. That is super unfortunate. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to make a

00:00:13   big hairy deal out of it because fortunately I've been lucky enough that I'm recovering well and no

00:00:20   one else in my family got like actual noticeable symptoms really. So that's what's going on, but

00:00:28   I'm almost done with it and I basically just, you know, normally I didn't know whether to even

00:00:35   mention this publicly or not. It's kind of embarrassing. Certainly to be a liberal person

00:00:42   who thinks they're responsible and to get COVID, there's some degree of shame in it and embarrassment

00:00:48   in it, but I decided to tell everyone anyway just in this very quick thing before we get started on

00:00:56   all the tech BS that we normally talk about because I thought it was a lot safer than it was to be in

00:01:04   the place that I was, you know, occasionally go into a restaurant and stuff. We live in a small

00:01:10   town where there were previously zero known cases total and so I was going into everyday life with

00:01:19   a risk profile as if it was very safe and fortunately it seems like almost no one in the

00:01:27   town got it as I had to make all those phone calls to everybody, which is not a fun thing to do,

00:01:34   saying "Hey, I got COVID and I saw you sometime last week so you might want to get tested."

00:01:39   I was under the continued assumption in my mind that I was still at the same risk level as I was

00:01:45   in the summertime and the reason I'm saying this publicly on this show is that I want all of you

00:01:51   out there to not make the same mistake I did and assume that you're currently at the same risk level

00:01:56   that you were at in the summertime. I haven't been paying enough attention to what's been going on

00:02:00   recently. It is everywhere right now. Anything you were doing to keep yourself safe in April,

00:02:10   you should be doing now. Things should be way more shut down than they are based on number of cases,

00:02:17   exposure everywhere in huge parts of the at least the US. I haven't been paying attention to much of

00:02:21   the rest of the world yet. Be careful. Be more careful than you have been all summer because

00:02:27   what's out there right now is way riskier and in way higher numbers than you might have been

00:02:34   assuming these last few months. Please be careful. We're lucky. I'm almost done with it. It seems

00:02:42   like no one else got it from us, thank God. If any of these things went a little bit differently,

00:02:48   it could have been a lot worse. Please learn from my lack of accurate risk assessment and

00:02:54   really be very careful. We're heading into Thanksgiving. My family has cancelled our

00:03:01   plans for obvious reasons. A lot of people are doing the same thing. I would suggest

00:03:07   considering that because again, we're lucky that our symptoms were mild and that we didn't seem to

00:03:14   infect anyone else along the way. That could have been very different. Please everyone,

00:03:20   please be careful out there. I just want to add that I don't think you have anything to be

00:03:25   ashamed of. I think that despite all the measures that we've all taken to try to do what we think

00:03:31   is right, I would guess that every single person probably in the entire United States, maybe even

00:03:38   in the world, has been in scenarios where the only reason they didn't get infected is because nobody

00:03:43   around them was infected. It is very difficult to never put yourself in a situation where you might

00:03:49   get infected. All of us are relying on luck to say, "Well, that one time when I hung out in two

00:03:56   close quarters for too long while walking the dog with somebody, the only reason I didn't get it is

00:04:00   because my neighbor Jill didn't have COVID." Or, "The only reason I didn't give it to Jill at that

00:04:05   point is that I didn't have COVID." Nobody is 100% safe 100% of the time. We're all trying to do the

00:04:11   best we can. The fact that you got unlucky, unless you're doing something egregious like going to

00:04:16   bars every night, which you weren't, I think you shouldn't feel ashamed of anything. It's bad luck.

00:04:23   We're glad you pulled through. I think all of us, if you think, "Oh, well, that happened to Marco,

00:04:29   but he wasn't careful." Nobody is careful enough to be sure that they're not going to get it,

00:04:34   unless they're just living like a hermit and literally never leaving. Even then, who knows?

00:04:38   If you think you don't have to worry about it because you're not going to be a dummy like Marco,

00:04:43   Marco wasn't a dummy, and it can happen to you too. Well, I was a little bit of a dummy in the

00:04:47   sense that we had been going to indoor restaurants sometimes because we thought our town was safe.

00:04:53   The reality is, through all my contact tracing that I've been doing, I have found almost nobody

00:05:01   else who had it at all. I have my likely risk narrowed down to one interaction with one person

00:05:13   who had it that lasted about a minute. That, as far as I can tell, is the most likely place I got it.

00:05:22   It's that easy. That's all it could be. The thing is, a little light doesn't go on your ear that

00:05:28   tells you when you've been infected, so you're just guessing, and it's the best you can do.

00:05:31   Every time I go to the supermarket, I think, "Look, I've been going to the supermarket because

00:05:35   that's where the food is, and we do have to buy food, but there are other people here,

00:05:40   and I'm trying to stay away from them, and everybody's wearing a mask in my town,

00:05:43   so we're doing all the best we can, and we hope the ventilation is good, and we're spaced out

00:05:46   in line, and we're doing all the things, but the bottom line is, I know for a fact,

00:05:50   if I was unlucky, and I paused too long to get the peanut butter, and the person next to me

00:05:55   breathed out real hard, and they had COVID, it's just luck of the draw. You don't get it instantly

00:05:59   from one little germ. The longer you spend, the more confined places. We know what the risk profile

00:06:04   is, but I don't think any of us have the kind of life where we can say, "I'm never going to go to

00:06:08   the grocery store anymore. I'm never going to go outdoors anymore." I'm certainly not living that

00:06:14   way. I'm doing the best I can within the constraints that I have. For example, my wife goes to the

00:06:20   office because she can't work from home at her job, and they've allowed people to go back in

00:06:24   the office in limited amounts or whatever. Every time she goes into the office, she's bringing home

00:06:27   everybody who was in that office with her in socially distant mask scenarios, so on and so

00:06:31   forth. So unfortunately, there's no way to have zero risk, which is why I feel like you were doing

00:06:36   more or less the best you can. Maybe you slacked off a little bit on going to the restaurants,

00:06:41   which was a thing you didn't necessarily need to do or whatever, but I don't think you should feel

00:06:44   shame about that because the shame is not a useful thing, right? It's certainly not a great feeling,

00:06:49   I'll tell you that. And that's the shame of having to admit to myself and others that I got this.

00:06:57   Knowing that I didn't have a 100% perfect safety record was something that I underestimated.

00:07:05   I underestimated how bad that would feel and how much of a fool I would feel like in restaurants.

00:07:10   Like, "Oh God, I got it. I can't believe. Why did we have to go to a restaurant?"

00:07:14   Even though, by the way, it seems like I didn't actually get it in the restaurant, but

00:07:19   it's very strange. And if you think the system will save you in some way, will work for you in

00:07:27   some way, will tell you when people have it, I can tell you at least in New York, that's not

00:07:32   happening. Guess how many contact tracers have gotten in touch from the county health departments?

00:07:37   Zero. Guess how much good the contact tracing app on my phone has done? Zero. In either direction.

00:07:44   I wasn't notified of any exposures and I have, as far as I can tell, no way to submit my exposure.

00:07:50   I'm lucky that I live in a small town and I know everybody. And so I've just been calling everybody

00:07:57   and messaging everybody. And I contacted the mayor and the fire chief and everybody.

00:08:02   Oh my goodness.

00:08:03   Because it's a small town. Everyone knows each other. Everyone knows me. I know everyone.

00:08:08   And so I was able to get in touch with probably almost everybody who I would have seen that week.

00:08:16   And the only reason I found any other case of it was that some of the people I contacted told me,

00:08:23   "Oh yeah, we got it a couple days ago." And I was like, "Thanks for letting me know."

00:08:28   And that's it. And so the system is overwhelmed in so many ways and the system is not going to

00:08:36   save you here. So take matters into your own hands and be way more careful than you think you need to

00:08:43   be. And no place is safe. Even if you, like me, made the stupid decision that your small, isolated

00:08:50   town with almost nobody in it would be reasonably safe since you never heard of anybody there getting

00:08:56   it, well, someone's got to be the first. Please be very, very, very careful.

00:09:04   All right, let's start with some follow-up. I don't know if, speaking of editing, this happened

00:09:09   to get cut in the edit or if it just wasn't in the spot people expected, but we had a lot of people

00:09:14   reaching out asking, "Hey, you never said what watch you were wearing, Casey, when it took--" or

00:09:20   excuse me, "what watch band you were wearing when it took a dive off of the roof of Aaron's car and

00:09:24   cracked itself on the pavement." I did say it. It is quite possible it either hit the cutting room

00:09:29   floor or I think we might have gotten in like 17 different tangents as we are wont to do.

00:09:33   And so maybe it wasn't exactly what you expected. In all fairness, I recorded and edited last week's

00:09:39   show with 101 degree fever. So it might not have been my best editing job ever. Right, exactly.

00:09:46   So if you wanted the answer to that question, you could have listened to the bootleg and you

00:09:50   can get access to that at ATP.fm. But to directly answer the question, I was wearing-- I always

00:09:57   forget the name of it-- it is the original OG sport band, not the solo loop or the sport loop

00:10:04   or whatever it is. Yeah, the sport band. The sport band. So the one with the clasp. I cannot

00:10:08   recall a time-- and I wear the sport band almost always when I have a watch on and I have a watch

00:10:14   on almost always-- I cannot recall a time that one has ever just fallen off of my wrist like that.

00:10:21   And I swear to you it did. If either one of you two knuckleheads told me this story, I would have

00:10:25   been like, "Pfft, yeah right." But I swear to you that's what happened. So yeah, it was the traditional

00:10:30   sport band. It's never happened to me before and I don't expect it would ever happen again. But it

00:10:35   was just colossally bad luck. So it is what it is. Million and one shot, doc. Exactly. I'm sure

00:10:42   that's a reference. I don't know what to. All right, YouTube DL. My beloved, my beloved, beloved

00:10:47   command line app. It's back, baby. It's back on GitHub. This is such great news. This is extremely

00:10:54   great news. So let me get the, let me get the kind of compulsory disclaimer out of the way.

00:10:58   I love GitHub, but GitHub has some troubling aspects to it. Most specifically they continue

00:11:04   to work with the United States. Really gross. What is the immigration and customs enforcement ICE? ICE.

00:11:09   Wait, they do? Yes. In what context? I don't, they, I think they do on-prem for ICE or something

00:11:17   like that. I'm not 100% sure, but my understanding, maybe I'm wrong. That's gross. But my understanding

00:11:23   is they've been doing this for years. They have been called out on it and they basically said

00:11:28   tough nuggies don't care. And that's super gross. And I just want to start out by saying that right

00:11:32   out, right out front. But leaving that aside, which I know is not easy for everyone, but for the

00:11:39   purposes of this conversation, we're going to leave that aside. I am super pleased and excited

00:11:45   about their response. So they put a blog post up a couple of days ago as we record, and it is called

00:11:50   standing up for developers colon YouTube DL is back. And in this, they talk about how it's, it's

00:11:58   a lot here and it is worth reading. It's not that long a post, but there's a lot there. But basically

00:12:02   there was a DMCA takedown request that was, and jump in when you're ready fellas, that was trying,

00:12:08   that was citing a specific clause that makes everything for GitHub a little more complicated.

00:12:14   And I don't know if it's really pertinent what that clause was, but suffice to say they had to

00:12:18   go through a lot more process than normal and working, I guess, with the EFF, the Electronic

00:12:22   Frontier Foundation, they came to figure out, oh, actually this is not really a reasonable request.

00:12:29   And so once the, there was a GitHub commit, which we'll put in the show notes that fixed the thing

00:12:35   that, that the RIAA was most upset about once that commit took out the code that, that the RIAA was

00:12:41   really the URLs that the RIAA was upset about, GitHub re-established or reinstated the official

00:12:48   YouTube DL repository as though it had never left, which is super, super excellent news. I'm really,

00:12:53   really excited about this. And beyond that, GitHub has said, we're going to change the way we handle

00:12:58   these sorts of things. We're going to give more advanced notice. We're going to give developers

00:13:02   a chance to react to the, to, to the take down requests and, and perhaps fix the actual problem.

00:13:09   And they've also said that they're creating, or if not creating, then they're funneling a million

00:13:15   dollars into a developer defense fund in order to help developers who can't really fight off

00:13:21   the entire recording artist industry of America recording. What is it? RIAA recording industry.

00:13:26   Yeah. Artists association. Association of America. Although I think maybe a different A word might be

00:13:32   better filled in there most of the time. For real. But, but the point is,

00:13:36   GitHub is putting a million bucks of their own money or Microsoft's money or somebody's money to,

00:13:41   to start this developer defense fund. Again, I'm not saying GitHub is a perfect entity by any means.

00:13:46   But I do think that this response it's, it's not perfect, but it's, it's pretty,

00:13:51   pretty darn good. And I'm really pleased with it. I'm glad to see YouTube DL is back.

00:13:56   Yeah. This, this shows a few big things. I mean, number one, can you imagine the crap storm that

00:14:05   must have fallen on GitHub as a result of taking it down to prompt this level of correction from

00:14:10   them? So number one lesson is if you make tools that a lot of nerds use and your product's main

00:14:18   business is appealing to nerds, you better make sure you defend those tools on your platform.

00:14:24   But also this, this is less about GitHub having like a change of heart and much more about the

00:14:31   EFF having made a really good counter exam or counterpoint or counter argument about it.

00:14:36   Really, you know, GitHub has gotten a lot of the credit for this, but the credit falls almost

00:14:40   entirely on the EFF. They basically like on behalf of YouTube DL filed with GitHub, this incredible

00:14:48   like, you know, counterpoint piece basically saying this is invalid with this legal precedent

00:14:55   for these legally sound arguments. And if you don't support the EFF yet, please set up a monthly

00:15:03   donation to the EFF. I don't care how much you give them, give them something every month though.

00:15:08   They are so important to our industry for so many reasons. They have, they have fought in court,

00:15:16   many major battles that have, that have benefited us. You're listening to this as a podcast.

00:15:23   They've helped us directly by fighting podcast related patent lawsuits and other BS people try

00:15:28   to throw at podcasting. Chances are our listeners out there, like if you had to pick like one

00:15:34   good cause to donate to that was maximally relevant to your field as a computer nerd,

00:15:41   it's hard to find something better than the EFF to add to your list of who you give money to every

00:15:46   month. So please add them to your list. But that being so, and I also, you know, some charities

00:15:52   have like, you know, different kind of mixed, mixed bag records on things. You know, they,

00:15:58   maybe you can feel good about some of the stuff they do, but not all the stuff they do.

00:16:01   I can't think of a thing that EFF has been on the wrong side of like, I just can't, they, they are

00:16:08   so above board and they like, if you are a nerd, chances are they represent your beliefs

00:16:15   and priorities very well. So give to the EFF anyway. So yeah, what happened here basically was

00:16:22   the EFF stepped in and said, okay, the reason that the RAA picked that said that the DMCA applied

00:16:29   here doesn't actually apply. Here's a whole bunch of evidence to back that up. GitHub, you know,

00:16:35   undo this, please. And I assume that was part, one of many parts of the crap storm that GitHub

00:16:42   was receiving that made them really turn around on this. And so it's a, it's a great victory,

00:16:50   I think, for lots of things here. But, um, in particular, we have a great deal of thanks to

00:16:55   the EFF. Yep. Agreed. Jon, no thoughts. I'm surprised.

00:17:00   Well, I mean, everything came out well, like the, the, I think the most important role of things

00:17:05   like EFF, I also give money to them is because in our legal system, if you're just like the developer

00:17:10   of YouTube DL, it is disproportionately onerous for you to try to fight this. That's why you need

00:17:18   something like the EFF, who's staffed with, you know, they have money from people who give them

00:17:22   money. And they're staffed with people who do this type of fighting all the time. They have the

00:17:27   experience, they have the expertise, they have the money, they have the time, right? It's a

00:17:31   countervailing force against the RAA, which is like, all we do all day is find people and tell

00:17:37   them to stop what they're doing, because they're infringing on our rights or whatever. Sometimes

00:17:41   they are infringing on the rights. Sometimes they're not. But when they're not, it's so hard to,

00:17:46   to fight back in any way. It's just, it's just too much. Right. And I think some credit goes to

00:17:49   Microsoft slash GitHub for being open to the EFF's argument, because in the end, RAA, you know, EFF

00:17:57   can fight the battle, but Microsoft's on the line, or, you know, GitHub's on the line for hosting

00:18:01   the stuff, right? So they also have to have sort of the corporate will and, and or the, the savvy

00:18:08   to know that it's really, it's a really bad look if you're supposed to be like a haven for developers,

00:18:12   and then you just let them get screwed by the RAA, right? So it's some combination of pragmatism,

00:18:17   but also some amount of being willing to read the EFF argument and go with it, even though there are

00:18:24   plenty of gray areas, and you can say whatever you want, but until it's tested in a court,

00:18:28   who knows, right? So I give some credit all around. I'm glad this came out the right way.

00:18:33   It seems so ridiculous, though, like when we were talking about it, that like, I kept thinking there

00:18:37   was something I was missing about circumvention, but like, nope, I wasn't missing anything. It was

00:18:40   just, it was just literally like the dumbest possible thing you can imagine. You've got URLs

00:18:44   to copyrighted videos in your readme in your test suite or whatever. And, you know, that, that's

00:18:49   ridiculous. So I'm glad in the most extreme ridiculous case, we have enough people fighting

00:18:55   the good fight to turn this around. Yep. No, this is very good news. I'm very excited about it.

00:18:59   I think it was John last week had asked for somebody to find for us where it was that we

00:19:05   did predictions on chip names and Cameron Deardorff came through with a link. So John,

00:19:11   who's the winner? It's Margo. He nailed it. He got the exact name M1. When were we discussing this?

00:19:18   Part of the reason we couldn't remember it? 2018. October of 2018 was one of the many recurring

00:19:24   conversations we had about RMAX. And, you know, what do we think? It was an Ask ATP, actually,

00:19:30   you know, what do we think it will be called? I think Cameron's the one who sent in the question.

00:19:34   And my guess was they would just keep going with A's because hey, A for everything, A for Apple,

00:19:38   that works. That was not the case. Marco came in with the M's and he was so convincing that both

00:19:44   me and Casey were like, yeah, now that you say it, that seems like the obvious thing to do. Casey

00:19:48   also mentioned R as a possibility, but by the end, I think Marco had turned all of us around and said,

00:19:52   yeah, that's, and that was my recollection of it. It was like, didn't we say M was like the

00:19:57   most obvious one, but I couldn't remember who had come up with that. And it was Marco. He also

00:20:01   predicted letter suffixes. You know, M1C, M1S, M1, you know, I think at the time I said they

00:20:09   haven't used Z yet because they hadn't yet, but now they've used Z. So there you go. 2018,

00:20:16   M1 predicted by Marco. Well done, sir. All right. Tell me about RMAX and touch, please.

00:20:23   This was a big story because there's lots of interviews with Apple execs about the new

00:20:27   M1 Max, and we're going to talk about them later too. And one of them, this is, where was it? Was

00:20:33   it in the independent? Yeah. It was Craig Federighi and John Turnus. And here's a quote from

00:20:38   CFED. "I got to tell you, when we released Big Sur and these articles started coming out saying,

00:20:43   oh my God, look, Apple's preparing for touch. I was thinking, whoa, why? We had designed and

00:20:47   evolved the look for macOS in a way that we felt was comfortable and natural to us, not remotely

00:20:52   considering something about touch." So lots of people are citing that and saying, all those

00:20:57   stories you said about touch Max coming because Big Sur was like spacing things out. Here's CFED

00:21:02   saying, yeah, we did the spacing, but it wasn't because of touch. And that he was surprised when

00:21:08   people kept thinking we were preparing touch, that not remotely considering something about touch

00:21:13   is the money quote here. Now here's the thing. Lots of people have cited the idea that Apple

00:21:18   says one thing and the next year they do something different or whatever. I think this is different

00:21:22   in nature because it's not saying that we think touch is a bad idea at all. In fact,

00:21:28   this doesn't say anything about the future because Apple's never going to comment on future products.

00:21:32   So Federighi is not saying we're never going to make touch Max. We think they're a terrible idea.

00:21:37   What he is saying is when we did all that stuff to Big Sur, we weren't doing it because of touch.

00:21:42   Now we're probably not going to have time for this topic today, but in probably the next episode,

00:21:46   we'll talk about this. The obvious question that comes to my mind after reading that is like,

00:21:51   okay, if you weren't doing that for touch, then why the hell were you doing it? Because it doesn't

00:21:56   make any sense otherwise. Why am I gone so far apart in the menu bar? Why is everything so huge?

00:22:02   Anyway, we'll talk about Big Sur later, but I'm willing to take Federighi at his word that

00:22:07   the changes in Big Sur were not remotely considering something about touch. Like I find

00:22:13   it baffling because I can't think of any other reason to space things out like that, but that's

00:22:18   what he said and I see no reason for him to lie about that because like I said, he didn't say

00:22:22   there are no touch Max coming. He just say the Big Sur changes were not because of touch. Time will tell.

00:22:28   I can also point to like so many of the issues I have with Big Sur are things like hover states.

00:22:34   There's way more like things that are hidden by default and you have to hover somewhere to get

00:22:39   them to be revealed and different modes that expose themselves on hover and stuff. And that's

00:22:45   something that just doesn't work with touch. There is no hover with a touch screen. So if you were

00:22:51   designing something for touch, you would never in a million years use hover states for anything.

00:22:57   Whereas hover states feel like Alan Dye's favorite tool to use to hide anything to solve any design

00:23:02   problem. So they've gone way in the opposite direction actually with this. So really, you know,

00:23:08   this is not a UI design for touch. This is just a bad design. Yeah, more on that in a future episode.

00:23:15   Because I think we do have more to say about it in specific details. But yes, that's definitely true.

00:23:20   Jon, what's the next version of Mac OS? We discussed this on the show a while ago. And I

00:23:25   think I got another instance. I can't remember what the hell we said. But so here's the question.

00:23:28   It used to be Mac OS 10 with the big Roman numeral X, you know, 10 thing, right? And then eventually

00:23:34   they dropped that and it was just Mac OS and they in Big Sur, they changed the version number from

00:23:38   10 to 11. Right? So it's Mac OS Big Sur was Mac OS 11.0. Right. And as we've discussed in past

00:23:45   episodes, the question is then, does Apple stick with Mac OS 11 for a while? Because they didn't

00:23:51   really brand it as 11. We know the version number is 11. Because we could find it although there was

00:23:55   that point where 10.16 was in the mix as well. And we've discussed that in past episodes as well.

00:23:59   But the question was, do they stick with 11 like they did with 10 and do 11.1 next year,

00:24:05   and then 11.2 the year after that and 11.3 the year after that? Or do they switch to an iOS

00:24:10   style numbering scheme where Mac OS 11.0 is this year, and then next year is 12.0 and the year

00:24:15   after that is 13.0 and so on and so forth? We think we have the answer to that question because Apple

00:24:20   just released Mac OS 11.1 beta, which means they're probably going to spend the next year doing 11.2,

00:24:27   11.3, 11.4. And then next year, they will do 12.0. So there you go.

00:24:32   - Problem solved. - Yeah, I'm glad they're doing it this way. I think it'll make things a lot

00:24:38   simpler to conceptualize and discuss and market, even though it is going to be a little bit weird

00:24:43   that they're going to be offset from iOS forever now. Like it's never going to match up.

00:24:46   - They could skip numbers and catch up. They could sync them up if they wanted.

00:24:50   - Yeah, I guess they could, but I don't think they will.

00:24:52   - They did it with iPad OS. iPad OS, the very first version of iPad OS,

00:24:55   coincidentally exactly matched the version number of iOS.

00:24:58   - How did we get to, where did we end up? It was the buzz off from the reporter, is that right?

00:25:06   - That's what it was.

00:25:07   - Okay, so last week or maybe in the weeks prior, we talked about a viral clip where a reporter

00:25:14   had allegedly said a four letter expletive and then off because that's what the little

00:25:20   video, viral video had captioned it as. But in reality, if you close your eyes and listen,

00:25:24   he said buzz off. And there is apparently a name for this. It's the McGurk effect.

00:25:29   - I should have known this because I learned about this from my brother when he learned about it in

00:25:33   school and I just couldn't pull the name from my head. Now the McGurk effect, technically,

00:25:37   we'll put a link in the show notes to a YouTube video and the Wikipedia page explaining it.

00:25:41   Usually the demonstrations are you see a human being's mouth moving and the mouth makes like an

00:25:46   M or an F sound. And depending on what the mouth is doing, the audio sounds like an M or an F

00:25:51   because our brains are trained to look at the way people's mouths are moving to figure out

00:25:56   what it is that they're saying. It's not a thing that we consciously think about, but it happens.

00:26:00   But the more general case and the one I was talking about with the brainstorm green needle

00:26:05   thing is you don't need to see anybody's mouth moving. It is merely audio. And like in the

00:26:10   buzz off/F off clip, text is the nudge because the text in the F off video said F off. And because

00:26:18   we know how to read and could see that text, it made us hear an F instead of a B. And someone

00:26:24   sent a really, really good variant of this. And you two probably haven't looked at this,

00:26:28   but I invite you now to both look at this. It's a TikTok and it plays some audio and it has,

00:26:34   let me count them, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight different things.

00:26:38   Eight different things that they're saying, okay, this audio, which one of these eight different

00:26:43   things do you hear? Listen to this audio in this TikTok and look at the first item and you will

00:26:48   hear the first item and look in the second item and you will hear the second and look in the third.

00:26:52   You will hear the third. If you think of the trick, look at them in random order, go in reverse

00:26:55   random, whichever one you were looking at. That's the audio you were here because our brains are

00:27:00   weird. Please try it now. Oh, this is not how I saw this going. This is like a techno thing. What

00:27:07   is going on? Just look at, listen to the audio. What is happening? Any one of those things to

00:27:12   look at and look at them in turn until you hear it. Guys, my brain is broken. I mean,

00:27:15   it doesn't work without the visual aspects. Oh my God, my brain is broken. I don't like this at all.

00:27:19   It isn't an upsetting? This is deeply upsetting. This is the worst nightmare I've ever had in my

00:27:24   life. Oh my God. That is deeply upsetting. It's terrifying. Oh geez, that's messed up.

00:27:35   Why did you do this to me? It's like those optical illusions that no matter, you know,

00:27:40   that even once you know the trick, you cannot see it the right way because our brain's just like,

00:27:44   no, that one is in shadow and that one's in light and they're clearly not the same color. It's like,

00:27:49   you can show yourself that they're the same color with, you know, like convince yourself

00:27:52   with a little cutout and a piece of paper. When you take it away, your brain's like, yeah, no,

00:27:55   you're never going to see them as the same color. And this is one of those things. We know how to

00:28:01   read and we've been doing it our whole life and you just look at one of those words and you will

00:28:04   hear it as clear as day. You'll hear it. That is deeply upsetting. Listeners, if we haven't

00:28:08   already, if Marco hasn't already piped it into the episode, don't click the link. Don't do it

00:28:12   because it's nightmare fuel. Oh my God. That's so terrifying. Oh wow. That's wild. That is very

00:28:19   cool, but extremely terrifying. And now that we've embedded TikTok in our show, it is time for TikTok

00:28:24   to die. Like that's now like the boring old people have come in and taken it over and now it's no

00:28:30   longer relevant to young people. Our government is bored with that. So don't worry about it.

00:28:33   We are sponsored this week by ExpressVPN. One reason why internet access in the US,

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00:30:25   for sponsoring our show. All right, I have a weird discovery that I'd like to walk you guys through.

00:30:34   And this came from me doing my middle of the month, taking all of my photos off my phone.

00:30:40   T-ceremony. And so if you recall, the process by which I do this is I use photos, although as it

00:30:46   turns out, I could use image capture. I use photos to create a new photos library on my Mac. I have

00:30:51   it download or import all of the photos on my iPhone. I then export the unmodified originals.

00:30:56   Then I run my bespoke Swift command line app to send those to the Synology renamed and filed as

00:31:01   I see fit. And then I will typically use image capture to go into my phone and just bulk delete

00:31:08   the photos that I don't want, that I've just imported. Right, makes sense so far. So I went

00:31:14   to do this and I couldn't delete any of my photos in image capture. And for the first time, when I

00:31:22   don't recall ever having seen this before, next to Casey's iPhone, it had a little cloud icon.

00:31:28   The huh. Well, that's weird. I wonder what that's about. But I was on my laptop at the time,

00:31:34   which I just upgraded to Big Sur. So Big Sur. So I thought, okay, I'll just try again the next time

00:31:39   I'm at my iMac Pro. So the next day I sit down in my iMac Pro and I go to do the same thing. I go to

00:31:46   hook up my iPhone to image capture and I look and it's got a cloud icon. Huh. Well, what's that

00:31:53   about? Do you guys happen to know what that's about? Do you not have your phone set to download

00:31:57   all originals to your phone? Do you have it set off to my storage? Well, but that doesn't matter

00:32:01   because I don't use iCloud photo library. Do you use photo stream? Yeah. Do you have photo stream

00:32:06   on or off? I do, but it's always been on. That's always been the case. Huh. Is your phone still

00:32:12   downloading stuff from the iCloud backup and it's not done yet? No, I use the once called iTunes,

00:32:17   now called finder backup. I mean, it's a cloud icon. Clearly it's trying to talk to you. If only

00:32:21   the people who made this computer had some way to communicate with you other than tiny icons.

00:32:25   Tell me about it. So here's the thing. So I thought, huh, let me look into this. So I go into

00:32:30   where did I go? I got went to settings. I went to photos. Huh. There's a section called iCloud photos

00:32:37   and it's on. And I don't remember turning that on. So, hey everyone, I'm using iCloud photo

00:32:43   library now. I didn't even realize it. So I think what had happened was during launch day,

00:32:51   I forget specifically what it was, but I remember in the haste of like, you know, switching phones

00:32:56   and downloading everything and so on and so forth, I got told that, oh, my iCloud is running out of

00:33:02   storage. And I'm starting to use iCloud these days, not for iCloud photo library. Well, I am,

00:33:07   as it turns out, but I didn't know it. But I've been using iCloud for things like my gift wrapped

00:33:11   library, which is not that big, but no, I'm putting more and more stuff in notes. I'm putting stuff

00:33:15   like solver documents in iCloud. And so I'm using more iCloud than I, than I had been. And so in the

00:33:21   haste of just getting through this, you know, day of transfers and so on and so forth, I said, okay,

00:33:27   fine, just give me the $1 plan, whatever, fine. And I guess maybe during that process, it decided

00:33:33   to opt me into iCloud photos. Maybe I tapped something and I didn't realize it. I'm not here

00:33:38   to say that Apple did anything nefarious, but it was just funny to me that apparently, unbeknownst

00:33:43   to me, I am now using iCloud photo library for all my images going forward. So the next step,

00:33:47   which I haven't done yet is to actually embrace it and, you know, set up a proper photos library

00:33:52   on my Mac and start sucking in all the stuff from the Synology and so on and so forth. But given the

00:33:56   amount of grief I've gotten about not using iCloud photo libraries, imagine, or photo library,

00:34:02   imagine my own surprise when I go to that settings screen and say, huh, I'm using iCloud photo

00:34:08   library. Who knew? I didn't. Your accidental activation actually has a nice side effect

00:34:12   because in within your current workflow, the thing where you take your photos off your phone

00:34:15   once a month during that month, the photos, if without iCloud photo library, just on your phone.

00:34:20   So if you drop your phone into a lake halfway through the month, you've lost 15 days worth

00:34:23   of pictures that are on your phone. But now those are in the cloud for you. So there you go.

00:34:28   I also love that you felt so strongly against iCloud photo library that all it took for you to

00:34:35   literally just change your mind about it and move to it was one setting having been changed.

00:34:39   I mean, he didn't do it intentionally. You could literally just like toggle it off with like two

00:34:44   clicks. That's not the real library, though. Like that's the thing. That's just the pictures

00:34:48   he takes on his phone, right? Yes. Yes, that's true. And baby steps. It's baby steps. It's like

00:34:55   a picture of conviction here. Like I'm not going to use iCloud photo library, damn it.

00:35:00   Unless I accidentally turn it on and I'm unaware. Yeah, I guess now I'm all in. I don't consider this

00:35:04   honest to goodness buy in until I do what I described a moment ago, which is I take all of

00:35:09   the photos from the Synology, make a duplicate on my iMac. And yeah, and that's a, that's a big

00:35:13   thing that you should really think about and plan out. But in the meantime, what you've unintentionally

00:35:17   done is improved your current system by shoring up one of the weaknesses. That is true. That is true.

00:35:22   So I thought that that was quite funny. Please not give me any more grief about it. The point was to

00:35:26   have a good laugh with me and then everyone be quiet, please. Okay. Yeah, that'll work. I have

00:35:31   some other new things in my life. I ordered new Apple watches for Aaron and I, and I wanted mostly

00:35:38   since I know these watches are old now and nobody cares. I wanted mostly to talk about a couple of

00:35:43   things. First of all, have you guys ever done the courier service? That's I thought new in the last

00:35:49   like six to 12 months, but maybe it's older than I realized. Are you familiar with this at all? I sure

00:35:53   wish my area had it now. Yes, I bet you do. And they don't, they did. I have used it for an Apple TV once,

00:36:01   but I have, I can tell you right now that as of this past week, they do not offer the courier

00:36:07   service in my area for either phones or laptops. Well, I didn't try phone or laptop, but I did try

00:36:12   the, you know, now one or two month old Apple watch series six. And I was going to buy, you know,

00:36:18   Aaron one and me one. And I was looking at the shipping options and depending on what band you get

00:36:23   and what model you get, you know, the shipping was anywhere between very quick and not for a month.

00:36:29   And so what I did was I was looking at the other different options and I realized, wait a second,

00:36:36   it said, you know, same day delivery or something like that. And I was doing this in the morning time.

00:36:40   So I thought, huh, let me see what that is. And so sure enough, do you guys happen to know how

00:36:46   much this is? Because I do, but I was expecting it to be far more than it actually was. Do you know

00:36:51   how much this is Marco? I think when I did it for the Apple TV, it was something like eight bucks.

00:36:56   It was, it was absurdly cheap for what it was. It was nine dollars. So I spent darn near a thousand

00:37:04   dollars on Apple watches. You bet your ass I'm going to spend nine dollars to get that thing

00:37:09   couriered over to me. So yeah, so I ordered, I don't remember exactly what time it was, but it

00:37:15   was somewhere around eight or nine in the morning. And the nearest available delivery window was like

00:37:21   four in the evening or afternoon. And I think it was four to six. I think I have that right. And

00:37:26   sure enough at like four thirty-ish, the courier, I start getting, you know, like notifications in

00:37:32   the Apple Store app and I start getting like text messages from Apple saying, hey, you know, the

00:37:36   courier has been assigned, the courier is picking up your thing, the courier is on its way. Actually

00:37:41   in the Apple Store app, they had like a live map, you know, much like many of these delivery services

00:37:47   these days to show exactly where the courier was, which was super cool. Interestingly, a no touch

00:37:54   option did not seem to be allowed. They specifically said in several different places that somebody

00:37:58   needed to be there to pick up the order. So this very young gentleman came to the door. He

00:38:04   had his mask on. I had my mask on because I knew he was just down the road a minute before because I

00:38:08   was watching him cruise to my house like a stalker. And so anyway, he just handed me the bag. He didn't

00:38:14   ask for ID or anything like that. And then went on his way. And interestingly, there were a couple

00:38:19   interesting things about this. First of all, they gave me the standard like very, very wide Apple

00:38:22   Store bag, you know, not very deep, very, very wide because it's for these watch boxes that are

00:38:27   huge. But I guess because strictly speaking, it had been shipped, they had two of those huge gigantic

00:38:36   like "Lithium Ion Battery, be careful!" stickers on them, you know, and I'm talking about like UN

00:38:42   234 notifications or whatever. Yeah, I forget. You know what I'm thinking of. I forget exactly what

00:38:45   it is. But yeah, those like big red and white ones. And then I looked at the sticker and sure enough,

00:38:51   apparently it was Postmates that delivered it, which was interesting to me because

00:38:56   I had no idea Postmates was in my area. I thought it was still only in like the New York and LA's

00:39:01   of the world. I didn't have a clue that it was all the way out in Podunk Richmond, Virginia.

00:39:06   But apparently Postmates was what delivered it and it was easy peasy. It went really, really well.

00:39:12   And I would definitely do that again for $9 if I'm spending the kind of money I was spending

00:39:17   today or a couple days ago. So it worked out really nicely. Very, very quickly about the watch.

00:39:23   The watch hardware we've covered. It's very nice. The blood ox, oximetry, whatever,

00:39:29   pulse ox thing. It's nice to have that on my wrist. You know, that's good. It's very good for Marco.

00:39:34   It's good for me too. I got the, is it the Solo Loop, which is the sport band without a clasp?

00:39:39   Is that what it's called? Solo Loop? Did you get the size right on the first try? I did. Whoa!

00:39:43   Here's the thing. Here's the thing. First of all, I'm ordering, you know, literally two days ago.

00:39:50   And so because of that, I have had everyone's like refinements to their strategy that I've been made

00:39:58   privy to, you know, so like, don't get it super duper, don't get the little paper thing super duper

00:40:02   tight on the wrist. Just get it kind of tight on your wrist. And more than anything else, I'll have

00:40:05   to dig up this link for the show notes, but groobers, here's what you have in a sport band,

00:40:10   you know, the clasp sport band. Here's what you're probably going to want in the Solo Loop.

00:40:15   And that was spot on for both Aaron and me. And that worked out really nicely. So I am,

00:40:19   I believe, a six in the sport band, or excuse me, in the Solo Loop. And I think you and I,

00:40:24   Marco, were in the same hole in the sport band. So on the smaller, because I'm using a 40 millimeter

00:40:31   watch, on the smaller of the available sport bands, when I clasped it, it would be two empties

00:40:38   and then where the pin goes. I know this is hurting you to not use the right terminology.

00:40:41   I'm so sorry, Marco. Empties. It's like they're beer cans. Well, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

00:40:47   And I think you and I were in the same size. No, I'm on the, I have one empty followed by the pin,

00:40:51   but I too am a size six in the Solo Loop. But honestly, I haven't been wearing my Solo Loop.

00:40:56   I've been back to my regular sport band. Oh, interesting. Why is that?

00:40:58   I don't know if it's just like the way the sizing works on me, but the sport band is just a little

00:41:07   bit more comfortable for me. And I find the Loop to be a little hotter because like the, you know,

00:41:12   the sport band, because it has the little excess tail that tucks under it. And because it has the,

00:41:16   you know, whatever nine holes in it. Or if you can even go even holier, if you'd like with those

00:41:21   Nike ones, there is some degree of ventilation that you get like, because you don't just have

00:41:27   a, you know, one inch wide strap of rubber on your entire wrist. You have like small gaps where just,

00:41:33   you know, where it pushes off from it because of the spacing of the tail or the holes, let some air

00:41:37   in or whatever. And so it just, it's slightly more ventilated with the regular sport band. Like the,

00:41:43   the solo loop almost fits too well. And so as a result, I find the solo loop less comfortable.

00:41:49   I also find just the way it works out with sizing for me right now that like sometimes during some

00:41:57   parts of the day, the solo loop size six is a little snug for my comfort, but the size seven

00:42:04   is way too big all the time. So I, I think I'm maybe possibly like a little bit between sizes on

00:42:10   the solo loop, whereas the sport band just works out better that way. And one of the great things

00:42:14   about the sport band is like, if you find yourself between two sizes, you always have the option of

00:42:20   subbing in. If you're one of the middle sizes, you have the option of subbing in like the long or the

00:42:24   short side. If both of them can kind of fit because then the different length of the excess tail will

00:42:30   actually give you a slightly different fit between each pair of holes. And so like sometimes you can

00:42:36   kind of fake a half size by swapping out to the different tail. You have no such option like this

00:42:41   with the solo loop, you know, whatever size it is, that's the size it always is period. So if it fits

00:42:46   you well, which it sounds like yours does then great. But I'm unfortunately not one of those

00:42:51   people. And so I'm very totally fine to be back on the regular sport band with the pin.

00:42:57   I feel like the biggest difference between the solo loop and the regular one is that the solo

00:43:03   loops necessarily are intentionally elastic. It has to get big enough for you to get your hand

00:43:09   through it, right? And so once you, you know, the material itself is pulling at you. If you have

00:43:14   solo loop size so that it doesn't press against you with its elasticity, it's too big, right? It

00:43:20   has to actually be against your skin in most places. But a solo loop that is against your skin,

00:43:26   unless you are extremely lucky, is actually, its elasticity is pressing it against your skin.

00:43:31   Whereas if you get a regular thing sized the right way, I feel like a regular thing that doesn't have

00:43:36   as much elasticity, if you get that sized right, it doesn't feel like the elasticity of the band

00:43:42   is causing it to squeeze your wrist, right? It's whatever hole you put it in and it's not going to

00:43:46   get, it's not trying to get any smaller than the hole you put it in. Whereas the solo loop is

00:43:50   always trying to get like a little bit smaller if it's snug on your wrists. So I can imagine as

00:43:55   someone who can't stand out of anything on the wrist, that even that just tiny bit of elasticity

00:43:59   makes it feel like the band wants to be smaller than it is and that can be annoying.

00:44:03   Yeah, mine fits ever so slightly looser than I would prefer because I actually prefer it to be

00:44:09   a little bit tighter, but it's not to the point that it bothers me or that I notice it most of

00:44:13   the time. Getting the watch on and off is fine. I use the Studio Neat dock, one of the original

00:44:17   Studio Neat docks, so I don't have any issues with like laying it flat on the charger because

00:44:21   the charger is held upright. All in all, I really like the solo loop. It is a lot lighter than the

00:44:27   sport band, which in and of itself, I mean day to day, I don't really notice, but you can tell the

00:44:31   difference if you're paying any attention. But I really like the solo loop more than I expected.

00:44:35   And hypothetically, the next time I wash Aaron's car, my watch won't go catapulting off my wrist,

00:44:39   which would be an improvement. Very quickly, the brightness of the watch, I feel like I do notice,

00:44:44   particularly in the daylight. And otherwise, it's just, it's very nice and it's worked out

00:44:49   real nicely and I'm really glad to have blood oxygen readings taken all the time because I'm

00:44:53   super paranoid. So yeah, so hey, you know those watches that came out like two months ago? You

00:44:57   should probably think about getting one. They're pretty good. Who knew?

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00:46:56   All right, let's move on and talk about M1 Mac performance if we can, please. So since we've

00:47:06   last recorded, embargoes have dropped, geek benches have been, or geeks have been benched,

00:47:11   I guess I should say. And as it turns out, everyone is saying, "Holy smokes, these things are fast."

00:47:20   So break this down for me, one of you. Maybe we can start with Marco. Are these really that fast?

00:47:25   Is it possible for these to be that fast? It sure is and they sure are and it's amazing.

00:47:30   So, you know, I was kind of extrapolating in last week's show based on the A14 scores in Geekbench,

00:47:38   you know, and then knowing that this, that the M1 had twice the performance scores,

00:47:43   basically trying to extrapolate like, what do we think the performance will be?

00:47:46   And I think I was roughly correct, but it's actually even better than I predicted. I think

00:47:51   I didn't predict quite how high the single core would be. But regardless, it's so much better

00:47:58   than most of us would have assumed that this could be in this power class, basically. You know, the

00:48:04   M1s that we have right now, we basically have the same computer in three different enclosures. Like,

00:48:11   it's not that different between the Mac Mini, the 13X MacBook Pro, and the MacBook Air that we have.

00:48:17   They all have the same processor, roughly, and they all just have different thermal

00:48:22   characteristics, basically. The peak performance of the MacBook Air is the same as the other two

00:48:30   performances, and then the MacBook Air just, it thermally throttles down. If you push it really

00:48:35   hard for more than a couple of minutes, it'll start getting a little bit slower. But even,

00:48:39   like, even in its throttled down state, the MacBook Air is still faster than,

00:48:44   I think, almost every laptop, or if not every laptop that Apple's ever made.

00:48:49   (laughs)

00:48:49   - Yeah, it's worth going through the actual numbers here, just to, like, you know,

00:48:54   we had preliminary numbers last time. It's like, well, someone submitted these numbers,

00:48:57   but who knows if it's real or whatever. And they looked like they were in the ballpark,

00:49:00   so we believe them, but now we have the official numbers, and it's correct. So,

00:49:04   speaking of Geekbench, single-core MacBook Air is almost 1,700, 1,687, and that varies,

00:49:11   so we just round up to 1,700, right? The previous champion single-core performance was 1,200 and

00:49:17   change for the iMac, the 5K iMac with the low core count or whatever. So, single-core, it's big,

00:49:24   right? Multi-core, as Marco predicted last time, the only things that can beat it are the things

00:49:31   that either have more cores or are much bigger and hotter CPUs with the same number of cores.

00:49:37   So, the only thing faster in multi-core is the iMac Pro, the Mac Pro, and the 5K iMac with eight

00:49:44   cores, right? Which means that the MacBook Air with no fan is basically faster in CPU than any

00:49:54   Mac laptop that Apple has ever sold, right? We were worried about maybe it won't keep up in

00:49:58   multi-core. Nope, it does. Don't worry about that. One of these articles from MacRumors did the thing

00:50:04   that we were talking about, was like, "Let's try an M1 Mac, but with everything emulated."

00:50:10   An Apple Silicon emulating x86 is still faster than every other Mac in single-core, right?

00:50:17   That's how big the lead is in single-core. When you add the overhead of emulation, nope,

00:50:22   it's still the fastest Mac ever. So, if you're worried like, "Oh, I'm going to get an M1 Mac,

00:50:26   but if I use mostly programs that haven't been ported, they'll be slow." No, they will still be

00:50:30   faster than literally every other Mac in single-core ever, like the Mac Pro, anything.

00:50:35   Name any Mac at any price. It's ridiculous, right? Matt Panzareno at TechCrunch did the

00:50:42   benchmark we were asking for, which is, "What about unzipping," although he should have spelled

00:50:46   zip with an X on XIP, "What about unzipping Xcode? Is it faster than that?" And we were wondering,

00:50:51   "Is that IO bound? Is it multi-threaded?" Blah, blah, blah. No, it's super fast at that. The M1

00:50:56   Macs are the fastest Macs you can buy if your goal is to unzip multi-gigabyte Xcode things.

00:51:01   They're taking it somewhere around five minutes, whereas a Mac Pro is taking 10 minutes.

00:51:05   It's really ridiculous. The disk speed, our predictions on that were more or less correct

00:51:14   as well. It's basically twice as fast as the old one, because as Marco said last week, the old one

00:51:19   was slow. The old one wasn't great SSD, right? But even just compared to the best SSDs available in

00:51:24   other Macs, the M1 Macs have really good IO performance. So if you're waiting for us to get

00:51:29   to the downsides of these machines, don't hold your breath, because they're exactly as impressive as

00:51:37   we thought they would be. And honestly, this is like third-degree backlash to the backlash

00:51:44   to the backlash. I still remain surprised that people who are not in the Apple industry are

00:51:49   surprised, because it's like they hadn't been paying attention. It's like they haven't been

00:51:53   listening to ACP for five years, right? Every time a phone would come out, we would look at the phone

00:51:58   and the beginning was like, "Let's make fun of Jon's 10-year-old computer by saying, 'Oh, I got

00:52:02   a new phone and my phone has a faster CPU than your 2008 Mac Pro,' right?" And then eventually it

00:52:08   was, "The new phones have faster single-core performance than any of our Macs." And then

00:52:13   eventually it was, "The new phones have faster single-core performance than any Mac you can buy

00:52:17   at any price." That all happened, right? So to think that they were going to introduce a Mac that

00:52:22   was somehow slower than that didn't make any sense. We always knew it was going to be like this. It's

00:52:27   just a question of how much and to what degree, right? And so it still doesn't take away from

00:52:32   the performance, but that's why I think you see some of the stories where people's initial

00:52:36   reaction, kind of like the initial iPhone reaction from BlackBerry, which I think Gruber said,

00:52:40   it was like, "This can't be real." Because if you're not paying attention to Apple and you just

00:52:44   tangentially catch wind of the story and they're like, "Apple releases a new Mac laptop with no

00:52:49   fan that is faster than any Mac laptop ever sold and it costs $999," like, whatever. That's

00:52:55   ridiculous. It must be some custom tailored benchmark thing. Nope. They really, really are

00:53:00   that fast. Some more fun stuff from Panzer's review. One of the tests was rendering five

00:53:06   minutes of 8K video at 60 frames per second. The M1 MacBook Pro used extremely little power to

00:53:11   this task. Just 70% of its battery was used to output an 81 gigabyte 8K render, right? So they

00:53:17   rendered this thing. This is not about like, we're not saying time because timing was good too,

00:53:22   but it's saying how much battery do you use to render out this 8K file? The MacBook Pro,

00:53:27   yes, this is the M1 MacBook Pro, not the MacBook Air, used 70% of its battery to do this.

00:53:32   The 13-inch MacBook Pro with an Intel processor could not even finish the task on one battery

00:53:38   charge. So it used more than 100% of its battery. It's like, this is where we talk about performance.

00:53:43   It's like, "Yeah, but does performance really matter? Battery life matter?" Not only is this

00:53:47   thing doing things faster, it's doing them with like hugely more battery life. There's Neil

00:53:53   Hyppetel saying that someone in his life, I'm assuming it's his wife, Becky, or maybe not,

00:53:58   says, "I purposely bought Becky a maxed out Core i7 MacBook Air a few months ago because she has

00:54:03   to run one Windows app for work. This i7 MacBook Air scored 2867 in Cinebench with the fans,

00:54:11   you know, out running at max the whole time. The new MacBook Air just silently scored 6,803."

00:54:17   So like, you know, I'm going to get you a maxed out i7 MacBook Air because you really need to do

00:54:25   this. And you're getting like two to three times the score in a computer with no fan. It's

00:54:30   ridiculous. Two more superlatives and I think it'll be done. I tried to pick out the most

00:54:34   ridiculous ones. This is from Anatec. We'll put this link in the show notes. And it's a great

00:54:37   article if you want to read about a deeper dive into what the CPU can do. They were doing Anatec

00:54:42   in typical fashion. They're doing all sorts of, you know, every benchmark you can possibly imagine.

00:54:46   They're somewhat limited by which benchmarks are natively compiled for ARM at this point,

00:54:51   but they were doing the best they can. So this is, Anatec is not just comparing them as other

00:54:58   Macs. They're saying like, "Industry-wide, what is this like?" So then they're doing the Mac Mini

00:55:04   in this case. The 2020 Mac Mini is at least 50% faster than the 2017 MacBook Pro with a Radeon Pro

00:55:09   560 in the Basemark GPU benchmark. So that's a MacBook Pro with a discrete GPU. So they're

00:55:15   benching the Mac Mini against, you know, the biggest GPU. Not the biggest GPU, but one of the

00:55:21   discrete GPUs in a MacBook Pro. The newer MacBook Pros will do better, of course, but keep in mind

00:55:25   that this is an integrated GPU with the entire chip drawing less power than just the MacBook Pro's CPU,

00:55:31   never mind its discrete GPU. So it's not even fair to compare these because not only does this thing

00:55:36   draw less power than the MacBook Pro with the discrete GPU that it beat, what they're just

00:55:41   comparing is the power of the SoC to the power of just the CPU. They're not even adding in the power

00:55:48   used by the actual GPU that they're benchmarking in. So any sort of power comparison that you see

00:55:53   for these M1 Macs where they say, "Oh, the M1 was using this amount of watts, and then this computer

00:55:57   CPU is rated at this amount of watts." But the GPU, if it's a discrete GPU, is a whole other chip that

00:56:02   has its own power draw. It's fairly ridiculous. And finally, this is a spec, the spec benchmark,

00:56:08   SPEC, all caps, spec 2017. This is comparing against a CPU that actually beats it in some way,

00:56:15   right? In the overall new spec 2017 integer and floating point charts, Apple Silicon M1

00:56:20   falls behind AMD's Zen 3 in integer performance. However, it takes an undisputable lead in the

00:56:28   floating point suite. While AMD's Zen 3 still holds the lead in several workloads, we need to remind

00:56:33   ourselves that this comes at a great cost in power consumption in the 49-watt range, while Apple M1

00:56:39   is using 7 to 8 watts. So the only CPU that could beat it was using basically 50 watts,

00:56:47   right? You know, more than five times the power draw to barely edge it out in integer performance,

00:56:52   but still lose to it in floating point. The M1 is an absolute monster. Every single Mac that uses it

00:56:58   benefits from it in exactly the way that you would think, and the battery life is 100% real. So if

00:57:06   you had any reservations about these Macs for performance, noise, heat, temperature, battery

00:57:10   life concerns, I would say you can put them by the wayside. The compatibility issues and so on and so

00:57:14   forth still exist, but wow, these are good computers. Yeah. Well, but do we know that? Because

00:57:20   none of us have one, right? We both have them. Did Mark or do you have one? I've had it for about two

00:57:25   hours now. I've had it for a couple of days, so I can give you a little bit more impressions of it.

00:57:33   Remember, this is going to be the homework laptop, so I'm not actually going to be the one using this,

00:57:36   but of course I am the one that set it up. So I did have time to use it during the setup process,

00:57:42   which actually is fairly instrumental, because if you can think of what it's like when you set up

00:57:46   a new Mac laptop, there are a bunch of parts of that that are actually fairly stressful.

00:57:52   Migration Assistant itself, if you're using that, which I did, can be fairly stressful to the

00:57:57   computers involved, right? Depending on how you do it and, you know, like what, how they're connected

00:58:02   over the network and how much stuff you have and so on and so forth, but it's not uncommon to hear

00:58:05   the fans spin up when you run Migration Assistant on a laptop. Obviously, I didn't hear that on my

00:58:10   MacBook Air because it has no fans. When it was running Migration Assistant, I picked it up and

00:58:16   put my hand on the bottom to feel if it was warm. It was room temperature. There was no discernible

00:58:21   difference in temperature whatsoever from feeling the bottom of this thing during Migration Assistant.

00:58:25   I also ran Software Update because, like, whatever it is, 10 point, 11.0.1 came out,

00:58:30   this machine didn't ship with it, so it needed to run Software Update. When you run Software Update,

00:58:35   it's not uncommon to hear your Mac laptop's fans spin up, but this has no fans, so you didn't hear

00:58:40   that. When it was running Software Update and installing the operating system or update thing,

00:58:45   I felt it with my hand and it was room temperature. Like, you know, it's not to say these things can't

00:58:51   get warm. So there's plenty of YouTube videos you can watch. It's like, okay, now I'm going to run

00:58:54   this massive CPU/GPU benchmark for 20 minutes at a time. How hot does it get? It does get warm,

00:59:00   but A, not nearly as warm as an Intel laptop, and B, the thermal throttling penalty of this

00:59:07   MacBook Air seems to be about 15 to 20 percent in worst case scenario, as measured by work output.

00:59:13   So one of the ones I saw was doing like a Cinebench benchmark, and it did the same benchmark

00:59:16   over and over and over and over again to see how the performance dropped. So the first one

00:59:21   was about 15 percent higher than like the tenth run, right? And remember, that 15 percent, think

00:59:27   of that 15 percent you're losing for thermal throttling in light of how much faster this

00:59:31   MacBook Air is than all those other things we just listed before. It's almost nothing. And then the

00:59:35   MacBook Pro and the Mini don't throttle at all seemingly. Not only do the MacBook Pro and Mini

00:59:39   not throttle at all supposedly, but the fans apparently are so low RPM that you can't even

00:59:43   hear them. Gruber claimed to literally have never heard the fan, which is a claim that I can

00:59:47   understand as a fellow old person with Marco's Airport Extreme that he gave me that has a fan in

00:59:53   it ostensibly, but I literally cannot hear it. Like you can make everybody in the house be totally

00:59:58   quiet, and I can shove my ear like up to the thing. I can't hear the fan. So I'm willing to

01:00:03   believe that there is a fan, but that it can't be heard by 40-something-year-old people in a normal

01:00:10   house. So it's all pretty amazing. The thing that Craig Federighi was bragging about in the

01:00:18   keynote about Wake from Sleep, I tested that, and the thing about that is I have an Ork laptop I use

01:00:27   all the time. When I left the lid on my Ork laptop, the screen comes on instantly. So I'm like,

01:00:30   "Well, what do they mean by 'Wake from Sleep Instantly'? The problem with my Ork laptop is

01:00:35   all locked down, so I have to type in my password or use Touch ID or whatever to unlock it anyway."

01:00:41   You know, if you close the lid, it locks up, right? So I'm like, "When I lift my laptop lid,

01:00:45   the screen always comes on instantly, so how much faster can that be?" The thing that I had not

01:00:50   accounted for, and I mostly blamed on weird work stuff where I have to connect to the VPN, and I

01:00:55   don't know what I was blaming on, but I just assumed, "Oh, this is just always slow because

01:00:58   of work stuff." But whatever it is, on this new MacBook Air, the thing that is blowing me away is

01:01:04   how fast it unlocks with Touch ID. In my work laptop, I'm forever putting my finger on the

01:01:10   Touch ID thing and then just waiting, and my finger is just on it. I'm like, "Come on,

01:01:14   come on. See that my finger's there. See it. See my finger. See it. Unlock. See my... Oh,

01:01:19   there it goes. Okay." My finger spends so much time on that Touch ID sensor in my work laptop

01:01:23   because I'm waiting for the computer. The screen is on. I left the lid of the screen is on instantly,

01:01:27   and I see the little face and the little thing that says, "Type your password or use Touch ID,"

01:01:30   and I put my finger on the thing immediately, and then I got to wait for the computer to get around

01:01:35   to deciding to scan my finger. This MacBook Air, it's like if you brush your finger against the

01:01:39   thing it unlocks. It is always ready to read your finger. It's like a phone. You know when we had

01:01:44   phones with Touch ID? You'd take out your phone and put your finger on the Touch ID thing, and

01:01:47   it would unlock instantly. You wouldn't wait around with your thumb on the Touch ID sensor going,

01:01:51   "Come on, phone. Come on. Come on. Read my finger. Oh, there it unlocked." This is like that,

01:01:56   and it is glorious. Do you have it there with you right now? No, my kids have it.

01:02:00   Next time you have it, try changing the screen resolution.

01:02:03   Is it non-native? It's instant. There is no flash. There's no fade through black.

01:02:11   It's just boom. It's as if you're resizing a window.

01:02:14   I got to try that. I set it up for them just to finish my story. I did the migration assistant,

01:02:19   put all the stuff on it. Everything worked flawlessly. All the software, I launched the

01:02:25   first Intel app. It prompted me to install Rosetta. I did. It installed it. It ran.

01:02:30   Compatibility has been 100% perfect. Even before I started downloading the ARM-optimized versions

01:02:36   of various apps, I'm sure there are caveats for depending on what app you use. Maybe it doesn't

01:02:41   work that way. If you're doing development work with a bunch of Unity stuff and none of that is

01:02:45   ported, those are all absolute valid concerns. But for my specific use case, which is have a

01:02:50   laptop that kids can use to do schoolwork on, you would never know this wasn't Intel. It is so fast.

01:02:57   Everything runs fine. My kids were looking at it like, "Why did you get another one of the

01:03:02   same laptop?" I'm like, "It's not." It couldn't be any different. I don't think they've noticed

01:03:07   that the fan isn't there. But if your kids are on Zoom all day, the fans kick on. It's just

01:03:14   annoying to have the fans going and just have that not be an issue and not have it get hot.

01:03:20   All they're doing all day is they're using web browsers. They're in Zoom. They're maybe launching

01:03:26   Google Docs or Microsoft Word. That's all they do. This is super light work. I should never hear

01:03:31   the fan on that Intel one, and I do. And this one, no fan, very fast. I love it. Thumbs up

01:03:37   right up until the kids drop down the stairs and break it.

01:03:39   We have some real-time follow-up from Jason Snell who says, and I'm quoting,

01:03:45   "Holy hell, that display resolution changes instant."

01:03:48   Yeah, I'm telling you. It isn't something you do very often, but you know what it looks like from

01:03:53   all the other Macs. It fades to black for a second. All the windows reload and pop into a different

01:03:58   place. It's clunky. It takes a few seconds. For some reason, this is now instant.

01:04:03   It's so weird because it's not as if iOS devices have a specially optimized path for resolution

01:04:10   change. I guess they do when you change the Zoom factor, but that's just...

01:04:14   Doesn't all of Springboard restart when you do that?

01:04:17   Yeah, I don't know. All bets are off in terms of what the expected behavior of a Mac is, because

01:04:24   as I tried to express to my kids, even though it looks the same on the outside and it's got

01:04:28   the same keyboard and a very similar screen, what's inside is entirely changed. It's not

01:04:33   just that it took one chip out or replaced it with a different one. Everything is different.

01:04:36   All those chips that control the I/O and the RAM chip, you can just compare the motherboards.

01:04:41   I'd be surprised if there's only a handful of chips that are in common for things like

01:04:46   Wi-Fi or whatever, but who knows? It's just an entirely different machine. It's very much

01:04:52   like an iPad shoved into a Mac's case, but that's a good thing. The sort of performance

01:04:58   characteristics or what's slow and what's fast or what it can do with what amount of effort,

01:05:03   it's just an entirely new set of rules that we'll just have to get used to.

01:05:06   To me, the most shocking thing about this so far is that there seems to be no catch

01:05:16   like everything about computing and so many things in life is trade-offs and you got to get this

01:05:23   thing, you got to give up this other thing and oh, well, we made it faster this year,

01:05:26   but the catch is it runs super hot or we raised the price or whatever. There's so many catches

01:05:32   every time we make any kind of progress and this just doesn't seem to have any. I guess the catch

01:05:39   is you can't virtualize Windows right now, which for many people is a really big deal and for many

01:05:43   people it doesn't matter at all. So as long as that is not a problem for you, there seems to be

01:05:50   pretty much no other catch. Well, I mean, there's the time-based catch, which is like the people who

01:05:56   have Unix stuff like oh, Docker's not ported. My Unix stuff isn't there. I can't use homebrew or

01:06:02   whatever. That is all true, but we also assume that's only temporarily true because that was

01:06:07   true when they went to Intel. It was true when, not for the Unix stuff, but when you went to Power

01:06:11   PC, those ports will happen. You have to wait for them. Oh, Photoshop's not out for ARM yet,

01:06:16   but there's a beta for it or whatever. Oh, homebrew says it's not going to have a version

01:06:20   out for a while. Oh, Docker doesn't, but we imagine in the next year, if you care about this,

01:06:24   which is not the general use case of just, especially for a MacBook Air, of just using

01:06:29   GUI apps, but if you care about the Unix stuff, that will take a little while to come, but it's

01:06:34   not like you'll have to buy a new Mac then. The software will come eventually and you'll have it,

01:06:39   but if you spend all day using Docker and Node or something, don't get one of these Macs and then

01:06:44   be freaked out that you can't use Docker and Node, but if you buy one of these Macs now and use it

01:06:48   for web browsing and email, in a year, it'll do all that stuff and it'll do it super fast.

01:06:53   Yeah, and the only other major downside is that not the entire lineup has this as an option yet.

01:07:00   If you want a desktop with a built-in screen like an iMac or you want an expandable desktop like a

01:07:05   Mac Pro or you want a 15 inch laptop or 13 inch with all the ports and everything, they don't

01:07:12   satisfy those needs right now, but they will. Give it a year and I think we're going to have almost

01:07:18   all those major needs solved. I bet by this time in 2021, we're going to have the 16 inch, we're

01:07:24   going to have the iMac, we're going to have most of the range covered. Yes, there's going to be

01:07:30   machines with more than 16 gigs of RAM. They're going to get to that, but it seems like so far,

01:07:36   there's, and what Jon just said, that's a big thing. Having the software be a little bit shaky

01:07:42   for a while as everybody adds compatibility to everything is going to take a while. It always

01:07:47   does. This is the nature of a transition, but on day one, it's really good and it feels unreal.

01:07:59   The amount of speed you get out of these things, just to add one more little benchmark, I did some

01:08:03   overcast build testing and on my 10 core iMac Pro with 64 gigs of RAM.

01:08:11   Don't tell me this because we have the same computer. Don't tell me this.

01:08:14   Yeah, 10 core 64 gigs of RAM iMac Pro plugged into the wall. It's like 160 watt CPU,

01:08:21   56 seconds to build overcast clean. So 56 seconds. On my new MacBook Air with no fan,

01:08:29   it takes about 39 seconds. Why do you do this? And when it thermally throttles, the worst I could

01:08:35   get it to be was about 49. So in the worst case scenario throttling, it's only 12% faster than

01:08:44   my 10 core iMac Pro. And in the more common case, it's more like 30% faster. Now hold on right there

01:08:51   though. You paid, and you don't have to give me an exact figure, but somewhere around like six or

01:08:55   $7,000 for that iMac Pro. And how much was this MacBook Air?

01:08:59   1400 bucks or something like that. 15, something like that.

01:09:02   God bless. I know the iMac Pro is a little older, but golly.

01:09:06   And here's the thing about the $1400 MacBook Pro. The $999 one probably wouldn't do that any slower.

01:09:13   Yeah. I mean, the only difference is half the RAM. Every other part of it is the same speed.

01:09:16   The CPU is the same speed, the RAM is the same speed. That's why the 999 one,

01:09:22   not that I recommend people get that. They should get 16 gigs of RAM if they can possibly afford it.

01:09:26   That's the amazing thing about this. That's the thing we learned from all the people testing.

01:09:32   We were wondering, "Oh, is it clock tires?" This and that. It seems like the answer is no.

01:09:35   All of them have variable clock speed as adjusting for temperature or whatever,

01:09:39   and you can get readouts on what they are. And it seems like it's around 3.2 gigahertz throttling

01:09:43   down to like 2.8 or whatever. But they all do that, and the only variable is cooling.

01:09:48   And the penalty for cooling, as Marco noted, the penalty is you are only 12% faster than your

01:09:54   giant 10 core iMac instead of 30% faster. Right. And I'd take that. That's fine,

01:10:00   because I love not having a touch bar. And so that's currently a very nice thing right now.

01:10:07   So I took this out of the box about two hours ago. I ran migration assistant to transfer things onto

01:10:15   it. I installed a bunch of software. I ran these benchmarks. And I installed big software like

01:10:21   Xcode and Logic, like massive installations, many gigabytes of downloads and unzipping, and

01:10:26   yes, unzipping Xcode and all these massive operations. Running these benchmarks, I must

01:10:32   have run it nine or 10 times at least. I haven't plugged it in yet. I haven't unwrapped the power

01:10:37   brick yet. It's still in the box. And it's currently-- and I've had it sitting here with

01:10:41   the monitor on full brightness, because I only rock that way. And the battery is still at 60% full.

01:10:47   Do you remember during the setup, by the way, like Mac OS, if you've set up a Mac recently,

01:10:53   it throws up a notification that says, oh, since we're just setting up your Mac, things may be less

01:10:59   responsive until we finish this optimization process. What they're basically telling you is

01:11:02   like photo analysis is going to run and spotlight indexing is going to run. And they put a

01:11:06   notification in a couple of years ago or whatever that tells you that you may notice some degraded

01:11:11   performance. And it's like, no, I won't. Because normally you would think like, oh, I'll hear the

01:11:16   fans spinning up or things will feel slower or whatever. And that just never happened. So the

01:11:21   dialogue was there. The notification was there. But none of the effects that I could feel were

01:11:25   there from this supposed like, oh, I'm doing spotlight indexing now so things might be slower.

01:11:30   It was amazing. Yeah, I've also been totally ignoring when, like for instance, when you run

01:11:34   Migration Assistant, it suggests you plug it in. Yeah, right. And then also like when you install

01:11:39   Logic, it says you should really plug it into a power source before installing Logic. And I

01:11:44   guess ignore those and plow right through and then it's done 45 seconds later or something. And the

01:11:47   battery has lost less than 1% of its charge. Like it's not, it's fine. So to play this back,

01:11:54   these computers so far anyway, are not extraordinarily expensive. They're

01:12:01   extraordinarily fast. And even for the software that isn't updated for it, this is not the journey

01:12:07   from PowerPC to Intel from a decade plus ago. Even stuff that's still compiled for Intel is just as

01:12:14   fast as it was, if not faster. This is the no compromise computer, isn't it? Well, you know,

01:12:20   again, with the compatibility concerns, but yeah, like the future looks extremely bright. One of the

01:12:25   great quotes from one of, I think it might've been in that independent article with Federighi

01:12:30   and Turnus was, I think it was Federighi saying that, you know, the interviewer asked them about,

01:12:35   what do you think about these new computers or whatever? And the quote is, "We overshot."

01:12:39   It was like, we had a goal. We were trying to make something that's at least this good.

01:12:44   And it turns out we overshot. We made something like, it's not like this was their target and

01:12:50   they met it. They, you know, because this is way, they didn't need to make these this good.

01:12:55   There's no reason for the cheapest Mac that they sell to be faster than the most expensive laptop

01:13:00   they sell. Like that, why would you even make that as a goal unless you're being super ambitious,

01:13:04   Steve Jobs style or whatever. They just wanted something that was better than Intel and had a

01:13:08   bright future, but these things are phenomenal. Right. And it shows the most in these cheapos,

01:13:13   right? Cause here's the thing when they make the high-end ones, don't expect the high,

01:13:16   like the current MacBook Air is so much faster than the previous one. The new Mac Pro is going

01:13:21   to be way faster than the old Mac Pro, but the margins will narrow. I feel like potentially,

01:13:25   depending on how they fudge, you know, benchmarks with special like FPGAs or whatever, right.

01:13:30   Because it's, you know, it's more impressive when the sub $1,000 thing is like the fastest Mac ever

01:13:37   in single core than it is when the $6,000 one is because the $6,000 one is going to be the fastest

01:13:42   Mac ever by a large margin. But you expect that cause it's $6,000. We talked about this with the,

01:13:47   you know, what Macs do you think they're going to roll out first? And we always framed it as like,

01:13:51   well, if they roll out the low end, won't it be embarrassing for Apple if their cheapest Mac is

01:13:56   faster than their more expensive one? And here we are. And yeah, in some respects, it is quote,

01:14:02   unquote, embarrassing that the cheapest laptop they sell can do a whole bunch of things way

01:14:06   faster than the most expensive one. I, but I think I feel like Apple is willing to endure that

01:14:12   to say, but yeah, but we sell that computer too. Like that's us too. Like, you know, we,

01:14:16   we're not afraid of embarrassing our current products with our new products, especially

01:14:21   since we're going to replace those other ones soon anyway. And we're not worried about, oh,

01:14:25   well, no one's ever going to buy a 16 inch because if you need whatever, 64 gigs of Ram or a four

01:14:30   terabyte or an eight terabyte SSD or whatever, or you need to run some Intel program, you can't do

01:14:35   that on these because those are, these are the low end models. So you still have to buy that,

01:14:38   like kind of like how they still kept selling the, uh, the trashcan Macs. Some people needed them for

01:14:43   certain things they needed to do. And even though we felt like that computer is a dud, you're still

01:14:47   able to sell some of them. And obviously Apple wants to replace them ASAP, but whatever the

01:14:52   calculus was that was in their head, if they had rolled out the top end first and gone down,

01:14:56   it would have like saved this sort of weird situation we're in where, how does it make any

01:15:01   sense that your slowest computer is now your fastest computer? I don't understand. It doesn't

01:15:04   make it, but you know, we're all fine with it because like I'm telling everybody knows like,

01:15:10   what computer should I got to keep telling them to wait. And now I just want to like

01:15:12   send out the carrier pigeons fly, go buy Mac book airs. They are amazing. Your weight has paid off

01:15:19   by these computers now because the, the, the Mac book air, I feel like is like the best performance

01:15:26   deal of Macs that have ever existed. And we'll probably never be beat because we will never have

01:15:31   this discontinuity from, we were so slow for so long. And then we made this huge limp leap

01:15:35   and on the cheapest Mac that they sell that has a screen. I'm sorry, Mac. I keep excluding you. I

01:15:40   know you're cheaper. Yeah. I mean this and this to me, like this feels kind of like when we got SSDs

01:15:47   in, in the sense that like in, in my computing life so far, there are only a very small number of

01:15:55   performance jumps where when you first use something, you're like, Whoa,

01:15:59   like you actually really noticed the difference that does not happen very often. You know,

01:16:05   usually we get incremental progress. We're lucky if we get a processor that's like,

01:16:09   you know, 20% faster than, than the old one we had from a few years ago or whatever. Like

01:16:14   it's hard to in, in computing, it's hard to have major jumps like this. It doesn't happen very

01:16:21   often. Well, it's kind of like in the days with like two 86, two, if you had a two 86 and you got

01:16:26   a Pentium, you got that kind of jump, right? Like, cause in the early days we had bigger leaps,

01:16:30   but it's been a long time since you, since you go from like your, your three 86 to your Pentium and

01:16:36   have your hair blown back. And this is like that again. Exactly. And you know, the only time I can

01:16:41   think of in recent memory that we had a jump like this was when we went to SSDs, but going to SSDs

01:16:48   was a very like long and painful and expensive transition and many fronts. Yeah. And they were

01:16:57   expensive. Like you had an SSD, you had to get a tiny one and they cost a whole jillion dollars.

01:17:02   So yeah, it was amazing. But the reason it took so long is because they cost so much money. You're

01:17:06   like, well, but I've got a lot of data. I can't get an SSD. This is like if SSDs came out and they

01:17:10   were cheaper than spinning hard drives for the same number of bytes. Yeah. Cheaper and way faster.

01:17:15   Like that. Cause that's like my first SSD was 160 gigs. And so, you know, I had like, you know,

01:17:20   you had to like split it up. They'd have like, all right, we'll have the SSD for like the OS and maybe

01:17:24   like, you know, the, the cash folder for bridge or Photoshop or whatever. And then you'd put your

01:17:29   main data on your hard drive. So it's not to take up all the expensive SSD space. Um, and you know,

01:17:34   you had all these like hacks and everything and it was a long, painful transition before we, and

01:17:40   many people still haven't fully made the transition cause it's so expensive. Still it's,

01:17:43   SSDs are still way more expensive than hard drives. Even today, you know, this is on that

01:17:48   level of a transition in terms of how meaningful it is to the performance and balance of these

01:17:54   computers, except the downside is way less, way, way less. And the downside will be totally gone

01:18:02   within probably a year. Like, you know, the main downside is basically what John said earlier,

01:18:06   like, yeah, not all the software works yet, but that's going to be gone soon.

01:18:10   **Matt Stauffer** Not works. Not all the software works at maximum speed. Some

01:18:13   software doesn't work at all. Like for the Unix stuff that needs to be compiled, but

01:18:17   you know, regular Mac programs, if you're listening to this and you don't know what Unix is,

01:18:21   don't worry about it. Right. Cause regular Mac programs, you don't need them to do anything.

01:18:24   Just run the Intel versions. It's fine.

01:18:26   **Brett Harned** Yeah. But this, this is just such an incredible

01:18:30   gain. This is, Oh, I'm so like, it just as a, as a Mac fan and as a fan of computers,

01:18:37   this is so exciting to me. I'm so happy with this. It has blown me away and I will, you know,

01:18:46   once the, once the big ones come out, I, I do still, I think want to be in the 16 inch size

01:18:50   class for my laptop needs. So once that comes out, I will probably go back to that size,

01:18:55   but I am super excited for this to progress and to keep going, you know, to see what the

01:19:02   rest of the lineup looks like. Super excited now to replace my iMac whenever the time comes,

01:19:06   which I was not excited about before, but now I, now I very much am. I am, I'm very much looking

01:19:12   forward to this time and, and it's, it's a great time to be a fan of computers right now.

01:19:16   **Matt Stauffer** One of the fun benchmark that Panzer did was,

01:19:19   he did an app launch thing, which is the thing that I used to do in Mac OS 10 versions to see,

01:19:24   because they would brag about improving app launch or whatever. So he's got a doc lined up at the

01:19:27   bottom of his computer with the ton of apps in it, like spreading the whole width of his screen.

01:19:31   And he just takes his cursor from right to left and goes, click, click, click, click, and clicks

01:19:34   each one of the apps. Right. And just goes from one end to the other and launches all the apps.

01:19:38   Right. And they bounce like once, like one bounce done, one bounce done. Like as he clicks

01:19:44   behind him, the apps are all finishing as his cursor moves along. It's, it's phenomenal. It's

01:19:49   like, why should, how, how are they launching that fast? Why? What is the, is it just the CPU?

01:19:54   Is, I mean, is the SSD a little faster? Maybe stuff got pulled into cache, but it's only got eight

01:19:58   gigs of RAM. Like it's inexplicably fast. Like it's phenomenally fast. Now some of that is the

01:20:03   new computer effect, right? And some of it is you've launched them before you get cached or

01:20:07   whatever, but I can tell you from logging experience of doing that exact experiment,

01:20:10   I've never seen performance like that, even on SSD max. Right. So what are Apple's doing? Keep doing

01:20:16   it. **Music**

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01:22:15   I love it like this is the week that Apple has lowered the App Store Commission

01:22:23   and we're an hour and a half in before we get to it.

01:22:26   All right, so let's properly introduce this. Just today, this morning, even as I woke up,

01:22:35   which usually these things seem to happen later in the day, Apple has announced that if you meet

01:22:41   certain qualifications and in certain circumstances and if this and if that, that you can, as an app

01:22:48   developer, get them to only take 15% cut off of your sales rather than 30%. And the short, short

01:22:56   version of this is it's for small businesses that earn up to a million dollars per year. But there

01:23:03   seemed to be a lot of, well, what abouts and oh, weights and so on. But at least at first and on

01:23:09   the surface, this is a very welcome change and one that I'm quite surprised to see Apple make.

01:23:13   Yeah, that quite surprised is putting it lightly. I mean,

01:23:17   I have been saying for years, as many Apple commentators and developers have,

01:23:23   there is no chance they're going to ever lower that commission from 70/30. No chance at all.

01:23:28   Oh, I felt the same. Yep.

01:23:29   I've been trying to talk you down with that ledge because every time you bring it up,

01:23:31   I say, well, they did lower it to 85/15 for subscriptions. And you're like, yeah, but,

01:23:35   and so, you know, like the explanation, the obvious explanation is what's changed recently

01:23:41   that Apple would be doing this. The app stores are running for so long and they haven't ever

01:23:45   changed their cut. And in recent years, they did the 85/15. And then very recently, you know,

01:23:50   just today they did this thing. Hmm. Could it be the congressional attention they're getting? Could

01:23:56   it be the antitrust lawsuit against Google? Could it be, you know, companies like Epic having big

01:24:02   fights with them? Like, you know, sometimes, especially very fervent Apple fans don't like

01:24:08   the idea that there's any sort of countervailing force to Apple, whether it be government

01:24:12   intervention or companies like Epic making a big stink and throwing tantrums and filing lawsuits.

01:24:18   But without pushback, Apple, as evidenced by the many initial years of the store,

01:24:24   is not motivated to change anything. And now there's a little bit of motivation and we see

01:24:30   a change and I think it's great. Yeah. I mean, and, and this, there's a lot of details to this

01:24:34   that, that are worth knowing, but the, the gist of it that most developers are now going to have

01:24:41   15% across the board is really quite something like that. And I think, and this is not the kind

01:24:48   of thing they would have decided, you know, over the weekend. I mean, this is the kind of thing,

01:24:51   this has probably been in the works for a few months if I had to guess. And this has a meaningful

01:24:57   impact on the stock perception for their services revenue. Now, that being said, and so all that is

01:25:05   to say, it's a big deal that like, it isn't just like Apple, you know, out of the goodness of their

01:25:09   heart, just giving us more money. They are also going to take a hit to a degree in this because

01:25:15   they make a lot of money from App Store revenue. But the way it's structured is that only developers

01:25:22   who make less than a million dollars a year get this new commission. If you make over a million

01:25:27   dollars a year through the App Store after their cut, then you're still paying 70 30 or, you know,

01:25:33   the 85 15 on the year two and above subscriptions, just like, just like before. And it turns out that

01:25:40   the App Store has very much a long tail effect for revenue. So if you look at the total amount

01:25:45   of money that Apple is going to keep at the end of the day, most of that money comes from a small

01:25:52   number of very, very big, very profitable companies and apps and games and stuff. So Apple, like, this

01:25:59   is not a huge amount of sweat off Apple's back, because most of the money they make from the App

01:26:04   Store are from the epics and Netflix is an HBO's of the world. It's from those massive companies.

01:26:11   And the commission on all those things is not going to change because those companies all make

01:26:15   way more than a million dollars a year from the App Store. What this does change is for that giant

01:26:20   long tail of developers like me who make less than a million dollars a year from the App Store,

01:26:25   we just got a raise basically. Again, this is something that like I never would have expected

01:26:32   Apple to do because quite frankly, they didn't need to. You know, there has been all this pressure

01:26:38   on them for, you know, antitrust regulation and everything and all the big companies that are

01:26:44   going to apply this pressure to them, they're not getting this cut because they make too much money.

01:26:50   So this won't help them at all. And I don't think this will relieve a lot of pressure from Apple

01:26:56   with the regulatory stuff, honestly. I think the only way to relieve that pressure is to allow

01:27:01   other forms of in-app purchase in apps. That's it. Like anything short of that is not going to

01:27:06   relieve that antitrust pressure. But that's something I think that would cost Apple way

01:27:11   more than this because all those big companies would do it and then Apple will lose all their

01:27:16   revenue. This is a very shrewd move for exactly the reasons you said that it makes a lot in terms

01:27:22   of number of people, it makes a lot of people happy because there are way more developers

01:27:26   making under a million dollars. And typically it's under a million dollars in profit, not revenue.

01:27:30   They're way more than making under a million than over, right? So number of people who are happier

01:27:35   today, huge number. It doesn't cost Apple that much money because they make most of the money off of

01:27:40   the whales, like the big profit makers. And those two things, like when we're talking about

01:27:47   antitrust and stuff, yes, there is the legal aspect of that, but there's also the political

01:27:52   and optics aspect of it. And despite Apple saying, "Oh, we charge 30%, that's what everyone else

01:27:57   charges," it's a good thing to be able to say the next time they're grilled to say, "Hey,

01:28:02   90% of our developers just got their revenue share cut in half from 30 to 15 and look at all

01:28:11   these testimonials from developers who are happy," and so on and so forth. Those optics matter,

01:28:16   despite the fact that we all know what did Apple really give up? Did they give a ton of money? They

01:28:20   gave up some, they gave up a non-zero amount, but they didn't do like what Margo said, "Oh,

01:28:24   you can use a different payment method to really cut into it," right? And so it's good to be able

01:28:29   to have that in your quiver when someone starts leaning on you again. Now, all that said,

01:28:34   in the end, this type of dynamic where there's a company, in this case, a tech company that we

01:28:44   think may have too much power and is using that power to do things that are good for it at the

01:28:51   expense of other people, right? That's the whole government effort of like, "Let's look at these

01:28:54   companies that have lots of money and lots of power and let's make sure they're not making the

01:28:59   world worse for everyone who's not them," right? In some way, right? Antitrust is a specific instance

01:29:04   of that, but in general, the government is always looking at that in terms of regulation, right?

01:29:07   If that activity of looking into it and asking them hard questions and considering what we might

01:29:16   do about it causes that company to say, "What about this? What about if we do like this?"

01:29:22   And you look at it and go, "That pleases me a little." You haven't changed the power dynamic

01:29:30   because Apple was and remains in the exact same position as they were in that they're voluntarily

01:29:36   doing that. They're voluntarily doing that to try to avoid someone making them do something

01:29:40   presumably worse. They haven't given up any iota of their self-determination by doing this.

01:29:47   So if you're worried that this company has too much power, they still have all that power.

01:29:52   All they're doing is being a benevolent dictator of the App Store and say, "We bestow upon you

01:29:58   an additional 15%," right? But you haven't changed the fact that they are the only App Store,

01:30:04   they require the payment method, they make the rules, they can change the rules at any...

01:30:07   Like none of that has changed. So fundamentally, and this is what lots of people are screaming

01:30:11   about, fundamentally nothing has changed in the dynamic, but practically speaking, people are

01:30:17   happier and people get more money. This is exactly why you do this move. Do it voluntarily rather

01:30:22   than digging in your heels and refusing to change anything in the hopes of heading off something

01:30:26   that could be much worse, right? So I think this change is great despite the fact that it will not

01:30:30   help me at all because my apps don't make any money anymore. So I really wish they could have

01:30:34   done this back for the three days a year ago when my two dinky Mac apps made some money, but oh well,

01:30:40   now maybe I'll get 25 cents a week instead of 15 or five or whatever. Anyway,

01:30:45   but yeah, this is going to make a lot of people happy. It's a move in the right direction,

01:30:51   but has still not fundamentally changed the power dynamics, right? Now you could argue that the fact

01:30:55   that they did anything shows that there is some power on the other side of that, and that's true,

01:31:00   but relying on the benevolence of the powerful is a bad strategy long term, and that's the situation

01:31:05   we're still in right now. So I'm glad that we have some benevolence. I like it. It's good, but I don't

01:31:12   like relying on that benevolence as the only thing keeping the situation from getting much worse.

01:31:18   Oh, completely agreed, and that's what like this doesn't really solve many of the problems of

01:31:23   Apple's position with the App Store, but it is nice like to be on this side of it. It's just a nice

01:31:30   thing for them to have done, and I know it's not again. This is not charity. I know this was to

01:31:35   serve a political purpose, and it will serve that purpose very well. You know you think about the

01:31:39   different angles of this. You know they're now going to be able to say you know all the different

01:31:44   small businesses and individuals they've helped with this and how you know how much they contribute

01:31:49   to the economy with all these small businesses. So as future antitrust pressure and government

01:31:55   pressure and regulatory pressure, as more stuff falls on them in that area, they're going to be

01:32:00   able to point to this and say look at all the good we've done here for all these other small

01:32:04   businesses. At the same time, because they've made public these terms and they have this million

01:32:10   dollar threshold below which you get the benefit, they've also kind of helped alienate anybody who

01:32:17   tries to complain about it because if you complain about this what you're saying is I make more than

01:32:21   a million dollars from the App Store every year, and it's kind of a bad look in PR in certain

01:32:25   circles. So you know it's a very smart move what they've done here, and I'm just happy to be on

01:32:32   the good side of it, but certainly the PR here there is certainly some you know utility to this

01:32:39   for them that is not lost on them. And finally while I am slightly you know complaining about

01:32:45   things here, I love what they did here, but the way they implemented it is a little bit odd to me

01:32:54   and creates some weird incentives. So normally the way progressive taxation or progressive fees work,

01:33:01   and this is the way you know US income tax works this way, is normally like if you say that you

01:33:08   know the amount you make up to x is taxed at this percentage and then anything above that is taxed

01:33:14   at this percentage, those are structures in such a way that when you cross that threshold between

01:33:19   the two percentages you don't suddenly pay the higher tax rate on everything you made before,

01:33:26   you only pay the higher tax rate on the marginal difference between that threshold and your total

01:33:31   income. So there is no amount of money that you can like by making a dollar more in revenue

01:33:36   you take home less total. That that would be weird and we'd create perverse incentives.

01:33:42   What they're doing with this is kind of doing that in one way. So if you cross the threshold

01:33:49   for the rest of that year you pay the regular 70% or you know you get the regular 70% instead of 85.

01:33:56   So say you cross a million dollars in October then in November and December you're going to pay

01:34:03   70/30 instead of 85/15. But you know you still have the money you made the rest of the year for

01:34:07   all the other monthly payouts that were taxed at the 85/15 rate. But the way this program works is

01:34:15   you only get the 85/15 on your first million if you made under a million dollars in the previous

01:34:22   year. So if you cross a million, yes it is progressively taxed for the rest of that year,

01:34:30   but then the entire next year you get 70/30 split even if you end up making less than a million for

01:34:37   that whole next year. So there is a weird incentive that like if you are going to make a little bit

01:34:47   above a million it's basically if you're gonna make between 1 million and 1.2 million or so

01:34:53   you actually have an incentive to maybe stop making money if you're gonna do that near the

01:34:58   very end of a year. Because if like in December you're gonna cross over a million you're actually

01:35:04   better off pulling your app from the store and just not making any money so that you stand at

01:35:10   that threshold so that for the entire next year you don't have the higher tax rate on your entire

01:35:16   income. So I'm not entirely sure why they have this structure but this kind of like

01:35:23   you have to make under a million in the whole previous year to qualify thing because that

01:35:28   creates this weird perverse incentive. So I hope they iron this out. I mean it's that way because

01:35:34   it makes them more money because they want 70/30 for the whole next year because they think oh

01:35:38   you're turning into a whale. Like what they don't expect is for you to cross over a million in the

01:35:41   next year to make like nothing. So they say once you cross that threshold you're now in the category

01:35:46   of the 70/30 people and this set of rules makes Apple more money than the one you described.

01:35:51   - Exactly but if they would just tax the first million at 15% and then anything above that at

01:35:59   30 like that would be a much simpler system. - And it's clear they know how to do that

01:36:03   because they do that for the first year right that you were just describing. It's not like they don't

01:36:07   have the ability to do that because of some quirk of their accounting system. No they do that for

01:36:10   the year when you cross a million. - Right and I think Microsoft even does that. Like there's some

01:36:15   other store that does that for like their app store or something similar to that. So

01:36:19   that like I don't know why they aren't doing it that way which would eliminate any weird perverse

01:36:26   incentives to not earn more money but I hope that they have some very good reason for that and that

01:36:33   they can fix that reason and get rid of that weird limitation. Otherwise this is a very good thing

01:36:38   and I'm very happy to see it. - Yeah the other thing that this made me think of related to our

01:36:43   past discussions about the app store on the cut and actual Apple's past actions and this has

01:36:49   analogies in general government and not just the government of app stores. In the past we

01:36:55   discussed the idea where you know Netflix got a secret sweetheart deal so they didn't have to pay

01:37:00   30% because Netflix was huge and they did this deal with Apple that was kind of a you know open

01:37:05   secret that hey Apple you know Netflix is not paying 30% because they're a big company and big

01:37:10   companies get special deals with other big companies and many times I've described that as

01:37:14   that's the way business works like and it's true like if you look at any kind of business if you're

01:37:18   gonna buy one or two little widgets from a company you get a certain rate but if you're gonna buy

01:37:23   10 million of them you get like your own special sales team and they schmooze you and you get a

01:37:27   better rate and you can negotiate right big companies have power that power manifests usually

01:37:33   in them getting better deals with other big companies and so every time you know Netflix

01:37:38   or whoever got a sweetheart deal for the app store it's like hey why don't I get that it was part of

01:37:42   the whole antitrust thing of Apple saying we treat everyone the same like we know that's not true

01:37:46   you treat big companies differently and I don't think that's outrageous or ridiculous because

01:37:50   that's true of everybody that Apple works with all the companies that Apple works with

01:37:54   depending on the power of that company whether it'd be a supplier for parts and how exclusive

01:37:58   that part is or whatever there are power dynamics between companies and it makes perfect sense

01:38:03   for big companies to get better deals right so one way Apple could have gone following the sort

01:38:08   of capitalist business ethic ethos is you know we're powerful companies we're butting heads here

01:38:13   or whatever if there's some big company like say epic or pick whatever whatever big company you

01:38:18   want Microsoft like whatever big company that is important to the app store Adobe you know

01:38:23   I don't know it's that's different because nobody has something going on anyway

01:38:25   they could have said okay well we need to keep these big companies happy so let's strike a

01:38:32   deal with Microsoft to get office on to the Mac and we'll give Microsoft a smaller cut right

01:38:39   you know and that type of arrangement that I'm describing that Apple has done at various times

01:38:45   you know the Netflix example is real but Microsoft is hypothetical I don't know

01:38:50   is the opposite of what they're doing here because this is like saying okay on the app store we take

01:38:56   a 30 cut but once you make more than a million we take a 15 cut and if you make more than a billion

01:39:01   we take a five percent cut that kind of progressive tax system where the more you make the less you

01:39:07   pay it's like the American income tax system in in reality right if not in law but sometimes also

01:39:13   in law right and that type of system makes a certain kind of sense that we're all used to

01:39:19   which is oh but they're Netflix of course they get a deal you're not Netflix you can't negotiate

01:39:23   a special deal with Apple to get a lower rate why should you get a lower rate and the argument from

01:39:28   from the people from the little people has been but Netflix can afford to pay more

01:39:32   the the 15 percent that I'm not getting and Netflix is getting is the difference between me

01:39:36   being able to be an independent developer and me having to get a different job whereas with Netflix

01:39:41   it's a it's a you know question of what their stock price is and their profitability and so on and so

01:39:45   forth right so that's the argument we always make is like that that percentage means more to the

01:39:49   smaller person which is why I think most people agree that a more reasonable and fair tax system

01:39:54   is if you're making barely enough money to survive you should have a lower tax rate than someone who's

01:39:59   making gazillions of dollars again with the progressive tax rate oh your first million is

01:40:03   taxed like this but your million and first dollar should be taxed higher and you can't cry poverty

01:40:08   and say oh but my million and first dollar was charged at five percent higher I can't live anymore

01:40:13   it doesn't that's you know so that's that argument like we don't cross these worlds of like oh real

01:40:19   life versus the app store or whatever but they do cross over and what apple has done here is

01:40:24   recognized that I mean previously had I don't get to make this political previously had a flat tax

01:40:28   ostensibly a flat tax 30 percent for everybody caveat asterisk double dagger so on and so forth

01:40:34   as we say right you know and one direction they could have gone is the big ones are big companies

01:40:41   are gonna bigger deals and we're gonna codify that like we're not going to just do a special deal with

01:40:46   netflix we're gonna say look once you make 300 million dollars you're down to five percent cut

01:40:51   because we want big companies to sell lots in our store that helps our revenue that helps our stock

01:40:55   price and for all the things that we talked about how this is actually like a very smart thing for

01:40:59   apple to do because it doesn't really hurt them part of the goodness of this arrangement is is

01:41:05   the opposite of that they are giving the cut to the people who need it the most and the people

01:41:10   who will hurt apple the least like that's right in there but still it doesn't change the fact that

01:41:14   they're giving the cut to the people who need it the most the most numerous people and the people

01:41:18   for whom it will have the largest impact right and you think like oh a million dollars if you're

01:41:22   making a million dollars you're rich if you have a five-person company a million dollars might not be

01:41:26   enough to keep your head above water so we can argue about what the right threshold is for a

01:41:30   company selling software right but certainly for individual developers if you're making a million

01:41:36   dollars in profit off the app store you're fine if you're a 20-person company making a million

01:41:40   dollars a year off the app store maybe you're not fine but the trend is in the right direction like

01:41:45   that line the slope of like we went from flat tax to a line tilted i'm glad the line didn't go in

01:41:50   the other direction which would be you know the big companies get the break and please feel free

01:41:55   to make whatever analogies to broader government you want i'm trying not to be super political here

01:41:59   but i feel like you can make your own conclusions i don't know i feel like this is this is a thing

01:42:08   that can cost apple not a lot of money but can reap incredible amounts of positive pr and

01:42:15   positive feelings so why not do it right you know it if all of the money is made on the whales which

01:42:21   i think you're right it absolutely is then yeah let's give the little guys a little boost and it's

01:42:28   really not going to cost that much it won't really change the bottom line and everyone's going to

01:42:32   think we're so benevolent and so wonderful and so great and hopefully some of the people who think

01:42:37   we're so great now are the people in government who are really looking up looking looking at our

01:42:42   finances and wondering you know and looking at in our behavior and wondering if we're being fair

01:42:46   well of course we're being fair this is what you guys said earlier of course we're being fair we

01:42:49   gave more money than little guys what else could you want from us and so yeah i think this is this

01:42:54   is something that should definitely be applauded without question but it is not a lot of effort

01:42:59   to earn a whole lot of good pr and if i'm in apple shoes i would have done the same thing but

01:43:04   i don't know i still feel like other more substantive substantive whatever that would

01:43:10   be bigger changes yeah that uh other bigger changes would have been more useful but i'm

01:43:15   not going to kick a gift horse in the mouth this is still excellent and i applaud them for doing it

01:43:19   thanks to our sponsors this week squarespace linode and express vpn and thank you to our

01:43:24   members who support us directly you can do that at atp.fm join we will talk to you all next week

01:43:31   now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental

01:43:42   oh it was accidental john didn't do any research margo and casey wouldn't let him

01:43:50   because it was accidental it was accidental and you can find the show notes at atp.fm

01:43:59   and if you're into twitter you can follow them at c a s e y l i s s so that's casey list m a r c

01:44:12   o a r m anti-marco armen s i r a c u s a syracuse

01:44:25   can you uh give me a moment to shed a little light on something that's uh on the verge of ruining my

01:44:41   marriage and i say that mostly jokingly but not entirely um i've been complaining and moaning a

01:44:46   lot lately about this weird issue that started for both aaron and i when we got our iphones 12

01:44:52   and that is that you know many of our friends and pretty much all of aaron's family are on android

01:45:00   and from what i can tell when we are shooting sms's back and forth between like one of us and

01:45:07   one other android person everything works great but in a lot of cases we're in these group messages

01:45:13   which i believe are strictly speaking delivered over mms and these group messages are you know

01:45:17   like two or three iphone people and two or three android people and both of us are having consistent

01:45:25   problems wherein one of us well we're not always in the same groups but oftentimes we are so like

01:45:31   family groups for example and i and let's say there were 10 messages sent iphones and android

01:45:37   phones my phone will receive five of them aaron's phone will receive seven of them and they are

01:45:43   they're of course not the same you know two batches of text messages i don't need to belabor

01:45:48   the point but aaron has been lighting me up about this justifiably because she's missing messages

01:45:53   from loved ones from friends she's been lighting me up about this for the three weeks whatever it

01:45:58   is we've had our phones i've been lighting up every apple engineer i know saying please fix

01:46:03   this for the love of god uh aaron is mostly jokingly threatening to buy an android phone

01:46:08   i think she's joking i'm not sure she's joking so i if you're a person who works at apple i will put

01:46:15   a feedback in the show notes can you please please do something about this because it's driving me

01:46:21   crazy and i joke about it ruining my marriage but seriously it is killing the two of us can you

01:46:27   please do something about this please and thank you that's what apple gets for not making uh

01:46:31   facetime and open protocol or message like like the the sms system as we all know is primitive

01:46:38   and old and weird or whatever but because there is it is the sort of open standard of messaging

01:46:45   if your phone doesn't work with it your phone is broken you're like oh i messaged i messaged

01:46:49   great yeah but but everyone doesn't have i messaged it's like why doesn't everyone have

01:46:52   my message well it's because it's just an apple thing well if you want everyone to have i messaged

01:46:55   you can't have it just be an apple thing uh and if you don't want everyone to have i messaged

01:46:58   you better make damn sure that the one thing everybody supposedly has no not whatsapp the

01:47:02   one thing everybody has that works and in this in our country that's sms the sort of lowest common

01:47:08   denominator um yeah so that's crappy when bugs like that happen and you can imagine why they

01:47:13   happen it's like well but who pays attention to sms like how many times our apple employees using

01:47:17   sms they're probably using i message way more and that's the problem and that's that's the thing

01:47:21   that really that really bugs me about this is i feel like this is widespread enough because

01:47:26   like i said i've complained about it on twitter and people have i thought it was an 18 t issue

01:47:30   at first and then people on like verizon and other american carriers said no no no no it's me too

01:47:34   and then i thought it was an american thing or something and then people in europe were like no

01:47:39   no no no it's me too then i thought it was an iphone 12 thing and some people on like iphone

01:47:43   11 said no no no no me too um but i talked to a couple of apple people about it and they were like

01:47:49   wow i never send sms ever and i'm like oh my god i cannot hit my face you know the pot i can i got

01:47:55   facepalm harder when i hear things like that because it's like this is the biggest issue i

01:48:00   have with apple is is not dogfooding or not dogfooding everything like yeah they dogfood

01:48:08   i message but they don't dogfood sms or group mms or anything like that you know does anyone at

01:48:13   apple really and truly use their tube and their assistant because anyone who has really and truly

01:48:20   used their assistant knows it's a piece of garbage compared to other assistants or maybe that's the

01:48:25   other side of this coin is they dogfood too much and they don't see what the other side of the of

01:48:30   the fence looks like and they don't see how much better the amazon tube is than theirs and it's

01:48:35   very frustrating because it you know here's a phone that is possibly my favorite iphone ever

01:48:40   and i cannot reliably receive messages from friends and family and like it is an internet

01:48:45   communicator that was one of the three pillars wasn't it an internet communicator and it is not

01:48:49   communicating it's driving me crazy sms isn't the internet yeah fine fine fine fine i know and just

01:48:56   to get away just to get in front of everyone no i am not going to convince all of my friends and

01:49:00   family to get whatsapp i don't want whatsapp i don't use whatsapp i do not have the clout the

01:49:05   wherewithal the desire to convince everyone else i know to use whatsapp it's not that those are

01:49:10   boil the ocean strategies any strategy that involves getting everyone you're related to to do

01:49:14   anything related to technology is basically a no-go unless you're going to buy it all for them

01:49:18   and even then even then if you were going to buy them all iphones i bet some of them would reject

01:49:21   it oh i've offered iphones to like so as an example um aaron's youngest brother is on android his

01:49:28   fiance is on on an iphone and i have offered to literally give him my 11 which i just got repaired

01:49:34   i think i mentioned on the show i just got repaired brand new screen on it i've offered

01:49:37   to literally give it to him and he doesn't he's not interested he just doesn't want it so anyway

01:49:42   uh a couple weeks ago we made brief mention of this last episode but it might have hit the

01:49:46   cutting room floor a few weeks ago my name is t in the chat uh wrote something about what had ended

01:49:52   up happening last week but we didn't have time for it my name is t wrote uh after show request for i

01:49:57   can't do this this time we keep bringing this up when we're two hours into an episode and it's like

01:50:02   marco please summarize 10 years 10 years of podcasting oh my god in the next five minutes fine

01:50:07   let the record show i was interested to hear i have four fishermen's friend half cough drops left

01:50:11   i can't i can't do a huge segment right now what what you've got here casey is what i call one of

01:50:19   the topics that ends up getting pushed down in the list it's a big topic if we're going to talk about

01:50:23   10 years of podcasting you know we're going to need time to do it it's also a little bit navel

01:50:27   gazey and usually there's more pressing news so these topics there's a lot of them that i have

01:50:31   like that that end up in the topic list and they just end up getting pushed down over time and by

01:50:34   leaving this in after show it's like every each time it's like this time we're going to be able

01:50:38   to do it even if marco was 100 healthy two hours in is not the time to talk about to summarize 10

01:50:44   years of podcasting so i my name is t it's a tall order for us to tackle your thing we have to really

01:50:50   wait for like the summer when there's no news but we have so much freaking apple news that we don't

01:50:54   probably have time to reminisce about being podcasters fine all right i tried i tried again

01:51:00   nobody loves me it's okay do you want to do titles then you don't want to talk about your cases

01:51:04   i i need to just tell the people about the cases because they keep asking me about it um all my

01:51:08   cases haven't arrived my iphone 12 cases i'm supposed to talk about iphone 12 cases that have

01:51:13   the bottom exposed and how much i like them and so on and so forth but my order is like i don't know

01:51:17   what's taking so long my one order said it's supposed to arrive in 15 business days which

01:51:21   i hadn't noticed before and we haven't reached resting business days so it's not overdue yet but

01:51:25   i don't have all my cases i have not found a case that i super duper like um i guess i can do a quick

01:51:31   you know brief review of the one i have i got the senna case s e n a it's a leather case it has an

01:51:37   exposed bottom it's got metal buttons uh the metal buttons are textured but i knew that going in

01:51:41   because you could see it in the photos uh pros the leather is super grippy and tacky i love it like

01:51:48   the apple ones are always slippery when you first get them and then they get broken in this one right

01:51:52   out of the case very grippy leather um and of course the bottom is exposed and it's good and

01:51:58   the corners uh look good on it they're not fraying or anything like that cons the buttons are way too

01:52:03   hard to press for me if you like firm button presses this is your phone because they are super

01:52:09   firm presses like if you're worried about these buttons getting accidentally pressed in your pocket

01:52:12   probably not going to happen with these ones but they are so hard to press that i almost immediately

01:52:16   took this case off and just threw it away one thing i noticed about the um about that case

01:52:21   in particular is like when i got it i noticed that when you look on the inside like when you

01:52:27   have no phone in it and you're looking at the inside of the case which is all you're doing

01:52:30   because you don't have a phone yes that's why i had a lot of time to do this the um like where

01:52:36   the buttons are the inside of the buttons is the same material and seemingly at the same thickness

01:52:42   as the rest of the case whereas if you look at an apple leather case where the buttons are there's

01:52:48   like a thinner like rubber kind of membrane material there instead of the whole full thickness

01:52:53   leather so i'm guessing that's something you need to look out for as like how to make the buttons

01:52:58   feel better and be easier to press or not yeah and so this is this is granted it's a personal

01:53:03   preference and if you like stiff buttons this is the one for you i wanted them to be separate like

01:53:06   stiff buttons yeah i don't know maybe if you have accidental presses a lot you don't have to worry

01:53:12   about this but like here's how stiff buttons manifest to be terrible like when i have my phone

01:53:16   sitting on like the sideboard when i'm in the kitchen doing dishes and i want to turn the

01:53:19   volume up and apple stupid air pods don't provide a way to do that i've got to walk into the i got

01:53:23   to walk into the the your watch does yeah my what i know i know i'm just saying i got to walk into

01:53:30   the other room and what i want to do is just reach down it's laying flat face up on on a little table

01:53:35   thing i just want to reach down to it and press the volume button seems like a simple task but

01:53:39   if it requires a ton of pressure now i have to get a firmer grip press hard but make sure you don't

01:53:45   have your opposing finger on the power button because you'll take a screenshot and it's actually

01:53:49   hard to do now not so hard that i can't struggle oh my little muscles i can't do it it's just

01:53:54   annoyingly stiff i want to be able to just do it thoughtlessly and now i have to like concentrate

01:53:58   a little bit uh the second thing is the texturing on the buttons is way rougher than i thought it

01:54:02   would be i thought it would be like kind of like a little bit rough or whatever like i wanted them

01:54:06   to be smooth i'm like oh they're a little texture that's fine but like you could file your nails

01:54:09   with this you could probably you know you could probably escape prison with one of these things

01:54:13   but just like rubbing it on the bars eventually you'll get through very rough texture and the

01:54:18   buttons stick out sort of proud of the case a lot more than the apple ones do the apple ones

01:54:22   are recessed a little bit so you know not entirely reassessed they do stick out a little bit but i

01:54:27   like the more recessed thing um and finally in terms of the leather quality even though the feel

01:54:32   of this is great and it's very tacky which is what i want the leather does seem to be i don't

01:54:37   know thinner or there's less of it or less durable because i've already got like some mars on the back

01:54:41   of it some scratches that i can see and the way the leather bunches around the curves like it's

01:54:47   not overall as nicely sort of gathered i put a link in the i put a photo in the show notes i

01:54:53   don't know if we'll put it in show art or whatever but it's like it's a picture of the apple leather

01:54:57   case showing the the volume buttons and the cut out for the the ring silent switch and the apple

01:55:03   ones every curve is just smooth there's no like wrinkling or bunching like in any of the curved

01:55:09   parts everything is rounded over the buttons are recessed in a little rounded over area this thing

01:55:14   that the the ring silent switch is like someone just took a razor cookie cutter and went slam

01:55:20   and just cut out a slice the edges are sharp and it's just like there is no sort of rounding over

01:55:25   of it at all it's just like they cut they slice right through the thing and so you can see all

01:55:29   the different layers of the case right so that aspect of it is both i feel like it feels a little

01:55:35   bit cheaper probably is less durable and also doesn't look as nice um that said it's still on

01:55:41   the case because you know why it's got an exposed bottom and i like that um i did consider going

01:55:47   back to the apple silicon case because having used the the swipe up on the exposed bottom for a while

01:55:52   i mean i used it without a case for a while so it shouldn't be new it's like isn't it the same

01:55:55   swiping up from the bottom without the case versus an exposed bottom it's the same edge the whole time

01:56:00   but i have to say that even without a case it is less satisfying than the old rounded over 11 to

01:56:05   swipe up from the bottom so i did have the thought that's like well you liked every other aspect of

01:56:10   the silicon case better except for the bottom swipe and it wasn't quite as tacky as this so

01:56:16   why not just switch back to the silicon one but instead i'm like well let me wait to for my next

01:56:20   leather case to come so i can try that one out but it hasn't arrived yet so if you're looking for me

01:56:24   to endorse a case that i personally like that has a bottom cut out as native leather i cannot endorse

01:56:30   the senate case but you might like it if you like rough metal buttons that stick out a lot and are

01:56:35   hard to press if you have one of those like hand grip exercise things like the like the the springs

01:56:41   between the two like grip you know lines that you put your your hand around you know if you like

01:56:46   those maybe you'll like using these buttons and maybe they'll soften up more over time they haven't

01:56:51   softened up so far i don't know um you know so i i think this is not a bad case it is just not to

01:56:56   my taste and it's not to my taste in ways that i was not able to ascertain by looking at the pictures

01:57:01   or if you have to break out of prison yeah