ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► - Have you ever been in a position where you haven't

00:00:01 ◼   ► messed with a portion of your own code for awhile

00:00:04 ◼   ► and you think that something should be there

00:00:05 ◼   ► that just straight up isn't there, and you're like,

00:00:08 ◼   ► hmm, this is weird. (laughs)

00:00:12 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm diving into Pikabie, which I haven't been

00:00:13 ◼   ► looking at for awhile and I'm looking for something

00:00:15 ◼   ► and I'm not finding it and that's freaking me out.

00:00:17 ◼   ► - Maybe you added it in a dream.

00:00:19 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:00:20 ◼   ► I've had that happen a couple times.

00:00:23 ◼   ► - How is the code that you've written in your dream?

00:00:25 ◼   ► Does it make sense?

00:00:26 ◼   ► - I mean, I think it's pretty good,

00:00:27 ◼   ► like best case, you added it in your dream

00:00:30 ◼   ► and you remember how you did it so you could

00:00:32 ◼   ► just do it again, but worst case, it's like,

00:00:33 ◼   ► I added it in a dream and I was so happy

00:00:35 ◼   ► to have that thorny problem solved,

00:00:36 ◼   ► but I don't remember how I did it.

00:00:37 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:00:38 ◼   ► And then it's just like, well, in a dream,

00:00:40 ◼   ► you can kinda gloss over the details,

00:00:41 ◼   ► 'cause you know, it just, whatever, dream logic,

00:00:44 ◼   ► but then in real life, you actually have to have the code.

00:00:46 ◼   ► - I have occasionally, I don't think I've ever actually

00:00:49 ◼   ► coded in my sleep, I have, however,

00:00:51 ◼   ► fixed bugs right before falling asleep many times,

00:00:55 ◼   ► you know, as my brain is clearing itself out for the night,

00:00:57 ◼   ► right before I fall asleep, I will occasionally realize,

00:01:01 ◼   ► oh, either I will discover a bug in my,

00:01:05 ◼   ► like right before I go to sleep,

00:01:06 ◼   ► where I will realize, oh my god, wait a minute,

00:01:09 ◼   ► in this case, then this case happens,

00:01:11 ◼   ► and I didn't account for that, or that's gonna be wrong.

00:01:13 ◼   ► It happens so often that Tiff can tell

00:01:17 ◼   ► when I am being kept awake by this,

00:01:21 ◼   ► and she will just say, just go fix it, just go,

00:01:24 ◼   ► and I'll be like, all right, I'll get up out,

00:01:26 ◼   ► get out of bed, go to my computer,

00:01:28 ◼   ► write down whatever to write down, or do what I have to do.

00:01:31 ◼   ► It's a thing, totally a thing.

00:01:33 ◼   ► - Now, but important question, though,

00:01:34 ◼   ► do you have your lights on while you're doing this,

00:01:36 ◼   ► or are you doing this in the dark?

00:01:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:40 ◼   ► - The crazy way that you podcast

00:01:42 ◼   ► in your dark cave of sleepiness,

00:01:45 ◼   ► I don't know how you do it, and stay awake during the show,

00:01:47 ◼   ► 'cause like, you know, we do this at night, I don't know.

00:01:49 ◼   ► I have, I've been doing a lot of,

00:01:52 ◼   ► so Casey, you started the conversation about

00:01:54 ◼   ► how you've been looking at very old code

00:01:56 ◼   ► that you wrote forever ago, and having, you know,

00:01:58 ◼   ► being surprised by it.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Over the last couple days,

00:02:02 ◼   ► for reasons that aren't very interesting,

00:02:04 ◼   ► I have been basically tearing apart

00:02:05 ◼   ► some of the foundations of Overcast's UI code,

00:02:08 ◼   ► and like, and sync code, and stuff like that,

00:02:10 ◼   ► and it's kinda like the point in the project

00:02:14 ◼   ► where you've had just parts all over your floor for days,

00:02:19 ◼   ► and the thing, I couldn't even build it for like a week.

00:02:24 ◼   ► What I was doing was, for again, uninteresting reasons,

00:02:27 ◼   ► I was taking my five year old Objective-C app delegate,

00:02:32 ◼   ► and I was bringing it into the modern environment

00:02:36 ◼   ► of scene-based APIs, and Swift at the same time.

00:02:41 ◼   ► - Oh, that scares me.

00:02:42 ◼   ► - And so I was, I rewrote my giant app delegate

00:02:45 ◼   ► from Objective-C into like three or four

00:02:49 ◼   ► different Swift classes that are now using the modern API,

00:02:53 ◼   ► and much cleaner, and I had to do a lot more Swift

00:02:57 ◼   ► to make this happen.

00:02:58 ◼   ► I just today, like a few hours ago,

00:03:01 ◼   ► just got to the point where it now builds and runs,

00:03:06 ◼   ► and it seems so far to work.

00:03:08 ◼   ► I haven't done a lot of testing yet,

00:03:10 ◼   ► but I have finally gotten the thing back together again,

00:03:13 ◼   ► and it's a glorious feeling when you've been literally just,

00:03:17 ◼   ► you know, it was the kind of change where like,

00:03:19 ◼   ► all right, the first thing I do is rename my app delegate

00:03:22 ◼   ► and pull it from the build.

00:03:24 ◼   ► So then you see the hundreds of things that break.

00:03:26 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:03:28 ◼   ► And then you wait for the ability to,

00:03:31 ◼   ► all right, well I fixed that error, you know,

00:03:34 ◼   ► if I, at best I can like search and replace

00:03:36 ◼   ► for this constant note that no longer exists,

00:03:37 ◼   ► but otherwise I just gotta hit build

00:03:39 ◼   ► and just see what happens, and oh, here's five more errors,

00:03:42 ◼   ► and fix those, and hit build again, oh,

00:03:44 ◼   ► here's something I have to write in Swift,

00:03:45 ◼   ► and here's something I have to figure out a new way to do it

00:03:48 ◼   ► 'cause it won't work this way in Swift or whatever,

00:03:51 ◼   ► and I think I have it back together.

00:03:55 ◼   ► But this has actually been a really interesting exercise

00:03:58 ◼   ► in modernization of my code for one thing,

00:04:01 ◼   ► which itself is, you know, a fun thing to do,

00:04:04 ◼   ► but also learning more about Swift,

00:04:06 ◼   ► getting more into the Swift mindset of,

00:04:09 ◼   ► how do you do this weird--

00:04:10 ◼   ► - Sorry, I couldn't hear what you said.

00:04:11 ◼   ► - What the? (laughing)

00:04:13 ◼   ► Nice, nice.

00:04:14 ◼   ► - That was from my watch.

00:04:16 ◼   ► Oh my God, what?

00:04:18 ◼   ► - I don't know, learning about Swift?

00:04:20 ◼   ► That doesn't sound like--

00:04:21 ◼   ► - I wasn't even pushing the button.

00:04:22 ◼   ► - Sounds like the activation word.

00:04:23 ◼   ► - God, Siri's the worst.

00:04:25 ◼   ► Who's looking forward to the new HomePod?

00:04:28 ◼   ► - I have not bought a HomePod yet to this day, not one.

00:04:31 ◼   ► - I actually, I am very curious to hear the HomePod mini.

00:04:35 ◼   ► I think I will be ordering one as soon as I can

00:04:38 ◼   ► just because I am so curious about it,

00:04:40 ◼   ► but I, 'cause honestly, again, as I mentioned last week,

00:04:44 ◼   ► I love the first HomePod for certain aspects of it,

00:04:49 ◼   ► but yeah, Siri, unfortunately, is not one of them.

00:04:52 ◼   ► But the sound is great, and if the little one

00:04:57 ◼   ► actually does sound at all reasonable for 100 bucks,

00:05:00 ◼   ► then it could be quite useful, but we'll see.

00:05:04 ◼   ► - I don't think we forgot to mention this last time,

00:05:06 ◼   ► but you can pair the little HomePod minis to each other

00:05:09 ◼   ► in a stereo pair, but you can't pair a big one

00:05:11 ◼   ► and a little one, so you've gotta have the same kind

00:05:14 ◼   ► for pairing, for stereo pairing.

00:05:16 ◼   ► - I mean, in all fairness, you can get three and a half

00:05:18 ◼   ► of the little ones for the price of one big one.

00:05:20 ◼   ► - You can play the same music simultaneously across them,

00:05:23 ◼   ► each as mono, essentially, speakers,

00:05:25 ◼   ► so it's not like if you have a house with some big ones,

00:05:28 ◼   ► some small ones, you can still play on all of them at once,

00:05:29 ◼   ► but you can't stereo pair them.

00:05:31 ◼   ► - Yes, that's true.

00:05:33 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm actually, I've been away from my HomePods

00:05:37 ◼   ► for a few months, and last time I visited them,

00:05:40 ◼   ► I realized how much I love their sound.

00:05:43 ◼   ► So I've been using, I guess that's still the pre-show,

00:05:46 ◼   ► sorry for topic structural reasons, but--

00:05:49 ◼   ► - Are you though? - Oh, no.

00:05:50 ◼   ► - I've been using the, I think I mentioned recently,

00:05:52 ◼   ► I've been using the Sonos One, which is,

00:05:56 ◼   ► it's basically Sonos' little 200-ish dollar smart speaker,

00:06:01 ◼   ► and it has Alexa built in, and you can pair a pair

00:06:05 ◼   ► of those together to make a stereo pair,

00:06:06 ◼   ► and so that's what I've been using in my main kitchen area

00:06:10 ◼   ► to get sound, and the Sonos One is an okay product.

00:06:14 ◼   ► What's great about it is that it has the Alexa voice

00:06:17 ◼   ► assistant, which I think is generally the best voice

00:06:19 ◼   ► assistant, and it also has AirPlay 2.

00:06:23 ◼   ► For whatever reason, Amazon doesn't wanna work

00:06:26 ◼   ► with Apple directly to build in AirPlay 2 support

00:06:29 ◼   ► into the actual Amazon Echo family of products,

00:06:32 ◼   ► I don't know why, I mean I can guess,

00:06:34 ◼   ► it's corporate BS reasons, but I wish they would.

00:06:37 ◼   ► As far as I know, the Sonos ecosystem is the only way

00:06:39 ◼   ► to get something that has the Alexa voice assistant

00:06:42 ◼   ► and AirPlay 2, but because it's not an actual Amazon Echo,

00:06:47 ◼   ► it's like a built with Echo, supports Echo, whatever,

00:06:50 ◼   ► Alexa built in, it's kind of a second class citizen

00:06:53 ◼   ► with the Alexa functionality, and most of it is in ways

00:06:56 ◼   ► I don't care about, but there's been two things

00:06:59 ◼   ► that have been kind of irritating me

00:07:00 ◼   ► about the Sonos One system.

00:07:02 ◼   ► Even though they are about the size of a HomePod,

00:07:05 ◼   ► and even though you can stereo pair them,

00:07:07 ◼   ► they don't sound anywhere near as good as HomePods.

00:07:10 ◼   ► The Sonos One is a really okay sounding speaker,

00:07:14 ◼   ► that's the best thing I can say about it, it sounds okay.

00:07:19 ◼   ► - But I thought Sonos, I was gonna say made all its money,

00:07:22 ◼   ► but that's not fair, but became popular

00:07:24 ◼   ► because it was the fancy person's speaker

00:07:27 ◼   ► because it sounds so good and it auto-tunes,

00:07:30 ◼   ► well not auto-tune, but you know what I mean.

00:07:31 ◼   ► - That's not quite it, I mean the reason Sonos

00:07:35 ◼   ► got really big early on was first of all

00:07:37 ◼   ► that they had this cataloging app,

00:07:40 ◼   ► so you could basically have a music server

00:07:43 ◼   ► somewhere in your house, and they've always been very big

00:07:46 ◼   ► in custom integrators, like people who you hire

00:07:48 ◼   ► to build yourself a whole house audio system

00:07:51 ◼   ► or a custom home theater, which is a business

00:07:54 ◼   ► I don't actually know anything about

00:07:55 ◼   ► 'cause I've never used it or seen it,

00:07:57 ◼   ► but I know it's a big business.

00:07:58 ◼   ► Part two, which was probably the biggest part,

00:08:00 ◼   ► is they mastered multi-room audio

00:08:03 ◼   ► before pretty much anybody else did,

00:08:05 ◼   ► and they have a large range of products

00:08:07 ◼   ► they've sold throughout the years,

00:08:09 ◼   ► most of which are very expensive for what they are,

00:08:11 ◼   ► but it was kind of like what Apple offers

00:08:14 ◼   ► of you'll pay a little more for this thing,

00:08:17 ◼   ► but you'll have this integration of this ecosystem,

00:08:19 ◼   ► and if you're really in the ecosystem, it's great

00:08:21 ◼   ► for those purposes.

00:08:24 ◼   ► These days though, multi-room synced audio

00:08:27 ◼   ► is kind of table stakes for a lot of these platforms.

00:08:29 ◼   ► Many things offer it, and it doesn't seem

00:08:32 ◼   ► like Sonos is any better than anyone else's

00:08:34 ◼   ► in ways anybody would notice.

00:08:36 ◼   ► Their speakers, some of them sound good,

00:08:39 ◼   ► some of them are okay, some of them,

00:08:41 ◼   ► the Sonos One is their lowest end speaker.

00:08:44 ◼   ► It is their simplest, lowest end thing,

00:08:46 ◼   ► it's their cheapest thing, and it shows.

00:08:49 ◼   ► It seems like a product that is made

00:08:51 ◼   ► by a company that doesn't wanna be making it,

00:08:53 ◼   ► which might be what the HomePod Mini ends up being.

00:08:56 ◼   ► We'll see when we can hear one.

00:08:58 ◼   ► Anyway, problem number one I have with the Sonos One

00:09:01 ◼   ► is that it only sounds okay,

00:09:03 ◼   ► and I think these days, that is not good enough.

00:09:07 ◼   ► The market has heated up, they have way more competition

00:09:10 ◼   ► for $200 price point for a smart speaker.

00:09:14 ◼   ► It should sound better than it does.

00:09:17 ◼   ► And then problem number two, I mentioned the Alexa thing

00:09:20 ◼   ► being kind of second class.

00:09:22 ◼   ► It's a little bit buggy.

00:09:25 ◼   ► Sometimes home voice assistant bugs

00:09:28 ◼   ► are ways that I can tolerate.

00:09:30 ◼   ► Like, if it occasionally gives me a stupid answer

00:09:33 ◼   ► to a question, or occasionally thinks it's been hailed

00:09:36 ◼   ► when it hasn't been, I'll forgive that

00:09:38 ◼   ► as inherent to the technology.

00:09:40 ◼   ► But this week, our Sonos One started losing timers.

00:09:45 ◼   ► When you tell your voice assistant to tell you

00:09:48 ◼   ► in nine minutes that the eggs are done

00:09:50 ◼   ► so that you can not over boil your hard boiled eggs,

00:09:53 ◼   ► and then about 12 minutes later you're like,

00:09:56 ◼   ► did I set the timer?

00:09:58 ◼   ► And you ask it, hey, timer status,

00:09:59 ◼   ► and it says there are no timers set.

00:10:02 ◼   ► And you're like, oh no.

00:10:03 ◼   ► At first you might blame yourself,

00:10:05 ◼   ► because dear listener, we are not perfect.

00:10:08 ◼   ► Sometimes we forget to tell Alexa to set the egg timer.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Okay.

00:10:13 ◼   ► But fortunately, this thing is useful/creepy enough

00:10:17 ◼   ► that if you go into the app you can see a history

00:10:20 ◼   ► of what you have said to it,

00:10:21 ◼   ► and conveniently what it has said back to you.

00:10:24 ◼   ► And so you are able to see, and you can check and verify

00:10:27 ◼   ► that yes indeed, 12 minutes ago you did say,

00:10:31 ◼   ► hey Alexa, set a timer for nine minutes.

00:10:34 ◼   ► And then it said back to you, nine minute timer set.

00:10:37 ◼   ► So you're able to verify, oh it got the timer.

00:10:41 ◼   ► It just didn't keep the timer.

00:10:43 ◼   ► So that happened and I thought, well that's weird.

00:10:46 ◼   ► Let me try it again.

00:10:47 ◼   ► So like a few hours later I was in the kitchen,

00:10:49 ◼   ► I was like, let me just see, I'll try it again.

00:10:52 ◼   ► Set a timer on that, raise my watch,

00:10:54 ◼   ► set a timer on my watch too, to remind me,

00:10:55 ◼   ► otherwise I totally forgot that I even did it.

00:10:58 ◼   ► Sure enough, lost it again.

00:11:00 ◼   ► And eventually I'm like, all right, this is weird.

00:11:02 ◼   ► So I unplugged them, both of Sonos' ones,

00:11:04 ◼   ► plugged them back in.

00:11:06 ◼   ► As soon as they booted up, three alarms went off in a row.

00:11:09 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:11:10 ◼   ► For tires.

00:11:11 ◼   ► - Nice.

00:11:12 ◼   ► - And they occasionally have other weird bugginess

00:11:15 ◼   ► like you'll tell it to stop playing audio

00:11:19 ◼   ► and it'll interpret stop as play the next track.

00:11:23 ◼   ► - What?

00:11:23 ◼   ► - You'll say stop and it'll stop.

00:11:25 ◼   ► Then it'll start playing something else.

00:11:27 ◼   ► And then you'll say stop again

00:11:28 ◼   ► and it'll start playing something else.

00:11:29 ◼   ► And it just gets, it's just buggy enough

00:11:34 ◼   ► in annoying ways on a regular basis.

00:11:37 ◼   ► But then losing a timer, to me,

00:11:39 ◼   ► that's like a catastrophic failure.

00:11:41 ◼   ► That is like, the one thing I am here in this ecosystem for

00:11:46 ◼   ► is kitchen timer.

00:11:47 ◼   ► It's like, that is like the biggest thing that,

00:11:49 ◼   ► it's the biggest thing that the Echo is usually

00:11:52 ◼   ► extremely good and consistent at.

00:11:54 ◼   ► So I've decided we're gonna fire the Sonos ones.

00:11:58 ◼   ► And I'm going to bring two of my home pods here

00:12:01 ◼   ► and replace that pair with those.

00:12:04 ◼   ► And since we are a family of split opinions

00:12:07 ◼   ► on kitchen and voice assistants,

00:12:09 ◼   ► we have ordered one of the new Echo balls.

00:12:12 ◼   ► And that will be our kitchen timer/Tiffs music device

00:12:17 ◼   ► in the kitchen.

00:12:18 ◼   ► And I will use the home pods.

00:12:20 ◼   ► And that will be that.

00:12:21 ◼   ► A good question from Rifalo in the chat,

00:12:24 ◼   ► why not home pod minis?

00:12:26 ◼   ► That's a great question.

00:12:26 ◼   ► The main answer is, I already have like four home pods,

00:12:30 ◼   ► I think.

00:12:31 ◼   ► - Holy. - Also, it's,

00:12:33 ◼   ► where they're going, it's kind of a large space.

00:12:35 ◼   ► It's like a big open space.

00:12:36 ◼   ► And so I don't think the minis would sound very good there.

00:12:40 ◼   ► I'm going to pre-order one home pod mini

00:12:42 ◼   ► to see how it is.

00:12:44 ◼   ► I need a AirPlay 2 test device in my office.

00:12:47 ◼   ► And that seems like a good one to use 'cause it's small

00:12:49 ◼   ► and it'll give me a chance to see how it sounds.

00:12:52 ◼   ► And my office is a pretty small room here.

00:12:53 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:12:55 ◼   ► - I kind of want a home pod.

00:12:56 ◼   ► And a lot of the time,

00:12:57 ◼   ► like I definitely don't want a $350

00:12:59 ◼   ► or whatever the normal price is home pod.

00:13:02 ◼   ► And I think it's best buy had or perhaps does on occasion,

00:13:06 ◼   ► put them on steep discount.

00:13:07 ◼   ► And anytime that happens, I'm like, do I want one?

00:13:10 ◼   ► But for better or worse,

00:13:11 ◼   ► and yes, I understand all the implications of it,

00:13:13 ◼   ► but we have an original tall Echo in our kitchen.

00:13:19 ◼   ► And then we have dots in the master bed,

00:13:24 ◼   ► in the office and in Declan's room.

00:13:27 ◼   ► And they've been working pretty well for us.

00:13:29 ◼   ► And they've been sufficient for the needs that we have.

00:13:33 ◼   ► And we'll occasionally play music on them.

00:13:35 ◼   ► And it sounds god awful.

00:13:36 ◼   ► Like I'll be the first to tell you it doesn't sound great.

00:13:38 ◼   ► - I was going to say, please just tell me

00:13:40 ◼   ► you don't play music on the dots, please.

00:13:42 ◼   ► - Oh, occasionally.

00:13:43 ◼   ► And it sounds like utter garbage.

00:13:44 ◼   ► But it doesn't happen that often.

00:13:46 ◼   ► - Play it out of your phone speaker,

00:13:47 ◼   ► it sounds better than a dot.

00:13:48 ◼   ► - Oh, it's not that bad.

00:13:49 ◼   ► - No, it really is.

00:13:50 ◼   ► - More importantly, the thing you just glossed over

00:13:52 ◼   ► is that he's got one of these things in his bedroom.

00:13:54 ◼   ► - That's true.

00:13:55 ◼   ► - That's a line I will not cross.

00:13:57 ◼   ► - I mean, to be honest,

00:13:58 ◼   ► it probably doesn't need to be there.

00:14:00 ◼   ► - I wouldn't do it, but I understand why people

00:14:02 ◼   ► who are like super into the ecosystem do it.

00:14:04 ◼   ► - You just went through on how it has a recording

00:14:06 ◼   ► of everything that you said,

00:14:07 ◼   ► and some of them also keep audio recordings

00:14:09 ◼   ► of everything you said.

00:14:10 ◼   ► And yes, you can purge that and so on and so forth,

00:14:12 ◼   ► but yeah.

00:14:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's definitely a little bit gross.

00:14:15 ◼   ► - I mean, as with everything else,

00:14:18 ◼   ► there are trade-offs,

00:14:19 ◼   ► and I don't need to be lectured about how bad this is,

00:14:21 ◼   ► everyone, mostly talking to the people

00:14:23 ◼   ► that are not listening to me, the two of you right now.

00:14:26 ◼   ► But anyways, I haven't had a problem

00:14:29 ◼   ► with the Echo devices in my house.

00:14:32 ◼   ► Occasionally, they'll think that we have hailed them

00:14:33 ◼   ► when we haven't, but that's actually pretty rare.

00:14:36 ◼   ► And we don't use it for music that often,

00:14:39 ◼   ► and so I feel like in so many ways,

00:14:41 ◼   ► even though I want really good speakers from the HomePod,

00:14:46 ◼   ► I want that in my life,

00:14:48 ◼   ► but I don't wanna rely on Apple's person in the tube,

00:14:53 ◼   ► because I know that it stinks.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Like, I use it on my phone, I use it on my watch,

00:14:58 ◼   ► and it's extremely frustrating.

00:15:00 ◼   ► I don't wanna add more of Apple's person in a tube

00:15:03 ◼   ► into my life.

00:15:03 ◼   ► I want less of it in my life.

00:15:05 ◼   ► And so even though I really, really would love

00:15:08 ◼   ► these very fancy speakers,

00:15:09 ◼   ► and I bet they sound phenomenal,

00:15:12 ◼   ► there's no way that I would want to rely on

00:15:17 ◼   ► that as my only shout into the air device.

00:15:20 ◼   ► And I guess I could, you know,

00:15:21 ◼   ► hey dingus on my phone or my watch or whatever,

00:15:24 ◼   ► but again, I don't want more of Apple's person in my life.

00:15:29 ◼   ► I want less.

00:15:31 ◼   ► And so on the one hand, I was gonna make fun of you

00:15:33 ◼   ► for having two different setups in the kitchen,

00:15:35 ◼   ► and how ridiculous it sounds to me,

00:15:38 ◼   ► but I could totally understand how you would end there.

00:15:41 ◼   ► You know, it does make sense.

00:15:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause like, it's sad,

00:15:44 ◼   ► but like this is, you know,

00:15:45 ◼   ► kind of what we mentioned last week.

00:15:46 ◼   ► Like the HomePods really kick butt in the sound department.

00:15:49 ◼   ► It's not even close.

00:15:51 ◼   ► They're way better than the Echos

00:15:52 ◼   ► and way better than the Sonos.

00:15:55 ◼   ► Again, not even close.

00:15:57 ◼   ► It goes back to what made the HomePod

00:15:58 ◼   ► so such a relative market flop in the first place.

00:16:02 ◼   ► One of them is pretty good sounding.

00:16:05 ◼   ► Two of them are great sounding.

00:16:07 ◼   ► But two of them at their original list price is $700.

00:16:11 ◼   ► And that's a pretty tough sell.

00:16:13 ◼   ► - Right, like-- - That ain't happening.

00:16:15 ◼   ► - At their frequent sale price of $200,

00:16:20 ◼   ► that becomes significantly better.

00:16:23 ◼   ► Like that setup for 200 for one or 400 for two,

00:16:27 ◼   ► that's a really good price for what you're getting.

00:16:29 ◼   ► Like it's great for that.

00:16:32 ◼   ► And I think the official price is now 300,

00:16:35 ◼   ► but you can still find them fairly regularly

00:16:37 ◼   ► for around 200 or 250.

00:16:40 ◼   ► And for that, like I hope that Apple

00:16:44 ◼   ► wants to keep making like high end HomePods

00:16:47 ◼   ► if they keep making Siri better.

00:16:49 ◼   ► Like at this point, I would just take,

00:16:51 ◼   ► even if Siri is as dumb as it always is,

00:16:53 ◼   ► but if it's just faster, like how about just make it faster?

00:16:57 ◼   ► That alone would so dramatically improve how useful it is.

00:17:01 ◼   ► 'Cause it's, when you compare it to the Alexa ecosystem,

00:17:03 ◼   ► it really is, it's the difference between like,

00:17:06 ◼   ► when you say like, hey dingus pause, or hey dingus play,

00:17:09 ◼   ► just even those simple commands that you would think

00:17:13 ◼   ► would be able to be processed 100% locally,

00:17:16 ◼   ► simple things like play and pause, basic media stuff,

00:17:19 ◼   ► it has like a two or three second delay to respond to those,

00:17:23 ◼   ► compared to every other voice system is so much faster,

00:17:26 ◼   ► and it responds just with so much more responsiveness.

00:17:30 ◼   ► And so I really just, please make Siri better,

00:17:33 ◼   ► 'cause I love everything else about this product line,

00:17:35 ◼   ► just make Siri better, and if you can't make it smarter,

00:17:38 ◼   ► at least make it way faster.

00:17:41 ◼   ► - It's so easy for me to say, I feel like we've made

00:17:44 ◼   ► the speech to each other 100 times,

00:17:45 ◼   ► it's so easy for me to be like,

00:17:46 ◼   ► you're the biggest company in the world,

00:17:47 ◼   ► throw some friggin' money at the problem and fix it.

00:17:49 ◼   ► Like I understand that that's easy for me to say.

00:17:52 ◼   ► With all that said, you're the biggest company in the world,

00:17:56 ◼   ► friggin' fix it, like how is this still a thing

00:17:59 ◼   ► all these years later?

00:18:00 ◼   ► Like I, I just don't get it.

00:18:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:18:04 ◼   ► - And the other thing is, I was talking to somebody

00:18:05 ◼   ► about this the other day, I can't remember who it was,

00:18:07 ◼   ► but you know, you can use the crutch slash excuse,

00:18:11 ◼   ► well, while you see, Apple does much better with privacy,

00:18:14 ◼   ► and that makes it much more difficult

00:18:16 ◼   ► for them to do things in the cloud.

00:18:17 ◼   ► Well yeah, okay, that's true, I'm sure, to some extent,

00:18:21 ◼   ► but like, if you really care about privacy so much,

00:18:24 ◼   ► then when you say, hey dingus, pause my music,

00:18:27 ◼   ► don't send that to the cloud, it's exactly

00:18:29 ◼   ► what you were talking about a minute ago, Marco.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Like, then move some of that on device.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Like these processors, the A14,

00:18:35 ◼   ► we're getting benchmarks now,

00:18:37 ◼   ► and they're phenomenally fast.

00:18:40 ◼   ► Like, why are we needing to send all this to the cloud?

00:18:43 ◼   ► The good news is, we can send it to the cloud super fast

00:18:45 ◼   ► and price in 5G, I couldn't get it out of the straight face.

00:18:47 ◼   ► I was trying so hard.

00:18:49 ◼   ► - Plus.

00:18:50 ◼   ► - I promise that'll be the only time,

00:18:51 ◼   ► I promise that'll be the only time, so.

00:18:53 ◼   ► Oh, it was too good to pass up.

00:18:54 ◼   ► But, you know what I'm saying, like,

00:18:56 ◼   ► I do recognize that I am deeply ignorant in so many ways,

00:19:01 ◼   ► but particularly when it comes to this,

00:19:02 ◼   ► because it is a far harder problem than I'm giving,

00:19:05 ◼   ► it credit for, you know, it is an extremely difficult

00:19:08 ◼   ► problem, especially to do it with the privacy

00:19:10 ◼   ► that Apple wants, but at some point,

00:19:13 ◼   ► like, I don't understand how this isn't better yet.

00:19:16 ◼   ► And in the same way, like, a few years ago,

00:19:19 ◼   ► and sometimes even today, we'll complain about why

00:19:22 ◼   ► Apple software is as unreliable as it can occasionally be.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Like, at some point, how do you not just look around

00:19:28 ◼   ► and say, this has to change, and we have to fix this?

00:19:32 ◼   ► And I get it's a big company, I get things move slowly,

00:19:35 ◼   ► but gosh, I just don't understand.

00:19:39 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:19:40 ◼   ► You wanna start some follow-up?

00:19:42 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:19:43 ◼   ► - Normally Marco gets like one or two of those,

00:19:45 ◼   ► but he managed to wedge in three topics this time.

00:19:48 ◼   ► - Going for a personal record.

00:19:49 ◼   ► - And Casey, you did a good job of stretching it out.

00:19:52 ◼   ► - Yep, that's what we're here for.

00:19:54 ◼   ► Was that a hat trick for Marco, is that how that works?

00:19:56 ◼   ► Anyway, so let's start out with,

00:19:59 ◼   ► apparently there's some patent that flew by

00:20:02 ◼   ► sometime this month about magnetic connectors

00:20:05 ◼   ► for future devices, this is for future iDevices,

00:20:08 ◼   ► Macs and accessories.

00:20:09 ◼   ► I glanced at this and reading the headline,

00:20:13 ◼   ► I assumed that meant something along the lines

00:20:16 ◼   ► of the MagSafe of 2020, but with data

00:20:21 ◼   ► somehow flowing through it.

00:20:22 ◼   ► And then looking at the picture shown in this link,

00:20:25 ◼   ► which of course will be in the show notes,

00:20:27 ◼   ► it looks more like MagSafe of the aughts,

00:20:31 ◼   ► but with other connectors or something.

00:20:34 ◼   ► So John, can you maybe shed light on this

00:20:36 ◼   ► and help me understand?

00:20:38 ◼   ► - So usual disclaimer about patents,

00:20:40 ◼   ► companies patent anything and everything

00:20:42 ◼   ► they can possibly patent because our patent system

00:20:44 ◼   ► is dumb and it incentivizes them to do that,

00:20:46 ◼   ► so this doesn't mean this is ever going to actually

00:20:48 ◼   ► be in a product, but this is just one more example

00:20:51 ◼   ► of using the magic of magnets to make connectors

00:20:54 ◼   ► less fussy, I guess, right?

00:20:57 ◼   ► So we had MagSafe with power on laptops a long time ago,

00:21:00 ◼   ► now we've got the big MagSafe ring on the back of our phones

00:21:03 ◼   ► also with power, but with a contact type of thing,

00:21:07 ◼   ► like I don't know what you would call it.

00:21:09 ◼   ► We call it wireless charging, but there's really a big wire

00:21:11 ◼   ► attached to a big puck and the puck sticks to your thing.

00:21:14 ◼   ► It's mostly a giant MagSafe connector,

00:21:15 ◼   ► but I guess without direct conductive connections

00:21:20 ◼   ► between two, two conductors do not touch each other.

00:21:23 ◼   ► That doesn't have the same ring to it as wireless charging,

00:21:25 ◼   ► what we call wireless charging.

00:21:26 ◼   ► Anyway, this thing looks like, like Asie was saying,

00:21:31 ◼   ► a magnetic connector where conductors do touch each other,

00:21:36 ◼   ► but possibly not limited to just power.

00:21:40 ◼   ► It looks like the type of thing that if you would imagine

00:21:43 ◼   ► that Apple was going to say replace Lightning

00:21:45 ◼   ► with something that's not USB-C, but still have something

00:21:48 ◼   ► that people could squint their eyes at and say,

00:21:50 ◼   ► it looks like a connector, you could say

00:21:52 ◼   ► maybe something like this.

00:21:54 ◼   ► The fact that we're seeing this patent now

00:21:56 ◼   ► and there's no product along with it probably means

00:22:00 ◼   ► this is never going to be a product,

00:22:01 ◼   ► but it's interesting that Apple continues to investigate

00:22:04 ◼   ► approaches like this, using magnets to make connectors

00:22:07 ◼   ► less fussy so you don't have to align them up perfectly

00:22:10 ◼   ► so they don't have these little tiny delicate pins,

00:22:12 ◼   ► I suppose, like they just sort of snap into place

00:22:15 ◼   ► and you can yank them out and all the benefits

00:22:17 ◼   ► that we like from MagSafe.

00:22:18 ◼   ► And this mostly got me thinking about like,

00:22:22 ◼   ► our computers have fewer and fewer ports in them

00:22:24 ◼   ► and fewer and fewer kinds of ports as compared to,

00:22:27 ◼   ► if you look at a PC from the 80s or 90s,

00:22:29 ◼   ► you just count the different number,

00:22:30 ◼   ► like the different sizes and shapes of ports, right?

00:22:33 ◼   ► There used to be a lot, especially on a Mac,

00:22:34 ◼   ► used to be like ADB ports for the keyboard and mouse,

00:22:37 ◼   ► serial ports, which were exactly the same shape

00:22:39 ◼   ► but different pins for a printer,

00:22:41 ◼   ► then you had SCSI ports of different varieties,

00:22:44 ◼   ► sometimes you had a dedicated floppy drive port

00:22:46 ◼   ► depending on your computer, like there's all sorts of,

00:22:49 ◼   ► PCs and Macs had all sorts of differently shaped ports

00:22:52 ◼   ► and fast forward to today and it's just,

00:22:53 ◼   ► especially on Apple's computers, it's just on the laptops

00:22:55 ◼   ► a bunch of USB-C shaped holes, right?

00:23:00 ◼   ► But they're still like plugs, right?

00:23:04 ◼   ► And, you know, a MagSafe was good for power and now,

00:23:07 ◼   ► you know, it's good for power again on our phones,

00:23:09 ◼   ► I suppose, magnetically connecting, you know,

00:23:13 ◼   ► connector designs have advantages,

00:23:16 ◼   ► they have disadvantages too,

00:23:17 ◼   ► they can become dislodged easily and so on and so forth

00:23:19 ◼   ► but it makes me wonder like, if the eventual future

00:23:22 ◼   ► of all kinds of wired connectors,

00:23:26 ◼   ► even just plain old wired connectors

00:23:27 ◼   ► that touch two conductors together,

00:23:29 ◼   ► you know, traditional connectors, might eventually all be,

00:23:33 ◼   ► have magnets incorporated into them in some way.

00:23:35 ◼   ► Obviously it's more expensive to make them that way

00:23:37 ◼   ► and it's, you know, it's probably more difficult

00:23:39 ◼   ► and like there's a whole bunch of reasons

00:23:41 ◼   ► keeping us away from it but the line of connectors,

00:23:44 ◼   ► you know, the sort of trend line has been,

00:23:46 ◼   ► I think to be willing to spend a little bit more,

00:23:50 ◼   ► you know, for like a USB-C style or even like Thunderbolt

00:23:53 ◼   ► or whatever, there's a little chip in the connector,

00:23:55 ◼   ► willing to spend a little bit more for a benefit

00:23:57 ◼   ► in miniaturization, ease of use,

00:24:00 ◼   ► where you can put the USB-C port in either way

00:24:02 ◼   ► and it still works, that costs extra money to do that

00:24:04 ◼   ► as opposed to having it just fit one way.

00:24:06 ◼   ► So all this is to say is that I hope someday

00:24:09 ◼   ► Apple revisits the idea of essentially a data connector

00:24:14 ◼   ► that incorporates magnets just to make it nicer

00:24:17 ◼   ► and easier to use.

00:24:19 ◼   ► - Yep, yeah, I completely agree.

00:24:20 ◼   ► I just still miss MagSafe and there was just a week

00:24:24 ◼   ► or two ago, a time when I think I had tripped over

00:24:27 ◼   ► the USB-C charging cable on my computer

00:24:30 ◼   ► which was sat perilously, more perilously

00:24:33 ◼   ► than it should have been and it almost--

00:24:35 ◼   ► - You? - Took a spill, I know, right?

00:24:37 ◼   ► And it almost took a spill onto the floor.

00:24:39 ◼   ► No, not that kind of spill.

00:24:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:24:41 ◼   ► And so, yeah, I miss MagSafe.

00:24:43 ◼   ► Like I understand why it's not here anymore

00:24:44 ◼   ► but I do miss it, the old MagSafe.

00:24:47 ◼   ► But we'll see what happens in the future.

00:24:50 ◼   ► Michael Betts, y'all, wrote, "Accessory design guidelines

00:24:52 ◼   ► "for Apple devices exist and there's a PDF

00:24:56 ◼   ► "where it describes all the stuff about MagSafe

00:24:58 ◼   ► "which is super cool," and I had no idea existed.

00:25:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is, I mean, I went to looking into this

00:25:04 ◼   ► because it was a response to my question

00:25:05 ◼   ► of like how strong can the magnets be?

00:25:07 ◼   ► Like what are the requirements for MagSafe?

00:25:09 ◼   ► Could you have a pop socket or a car mount

00:25:11 ◼   ► that is stronger than apparently Apple's cases are,

00:25:14 ◼   ► you know, in terms of how well it attaches

00:25:16 ◼   ► to the back of the thing?

00:25:17 ◼   ► This document tells you if you want to be

00:25:19 ◼   ► a MagSafe connector, here's the maximum and minimum force

00:25:23 ◼   ► and magnetic interference requirements

00:25:25 ◼   ► and how to test whether you're compliant

00:25:27 ◼   ► and all that other stuff, but I don't,

00:25:29 ◼   ► I can't eyeball the numbers and say,

00:25:32 ◼   ► oh yeah, I can tell what that is.

00:25:33 ◼   ► I don't even know what the units are.

00:25:34 ◼   ► So anyway, if you're curious or if you're just trying

00:25:37 ◼   ► to design a MagSafe device, the PDF link will be

00:25:40 ◼   ► in the show notes and you can read all about it.

00:25:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, I tried also to read this document

00:25:44 ◼   ► and realized very quickly that I was in way over my head

00:25:48 ◼   ► and realized, okay, I'll just wait

00:25:50 ◼   ► till the reviews come out.

00:25:51 ◼   ► And fortunately, many reviews have come out already

00:25:53 ◼   ► for MagSafe stuff and the first batch

00:25:56 ◼   ► of iPhone 12 and 12 Pro embargo reviews are out.

00:25:59 ◼   ► And the answer about how strong it is,

00:26:01 ◼   ► basically everyone seems to agree

00:26:04 ◼   ► that it's kind of strong but not super strong.

00:26:07 ◼   ► Basically, it's strong enough to help hold some stuff on

00:26:11 ◼   ► but not strong enough to hold things firmly.

00:26:15 ◼   ► So, you know, not strong enough that if you are

00:26:18 ◼   ► like using it solely as a car mount

00:26:21 ◼   ► and you hit a bump on the road,

00:26:22 ◼   ► your phone will probably fall off of it.

00:26:24 ◼   ► And you can't like, you know, swing your phone around

00:26:26 ◼   ► like a rodeo rope from the end of the cable.

00:26:30 ◼   ► It'll fly off of that as well.

00:26:32 ◼   ► So it's strong enough for convenience

00:26:35 ◼   ► but not strong enough for like really holding it

00:26:38 ◼   ► strongly in place.

00:26:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, it does give a range in the document.

00:26:42 ◼   ► So you could say, well, maybe the cases are currently

00:26:44 ◼   ► at the low end of the range but the range is only 800

00:26:47 ◼   ► to 1100 of this unit that I don't understand.

00:26:49 ◼   ► So clearly the range is not very large.

00:26:51 ◼   ► It's funny because I am not a PopSocket person.

00:26:55 ◼   ► I don't really understand it, which means I'm destined

00:26:58 ◼   ► to have one in like a year.

00:26:59 ◼   ► But nevertheless, I feel like this would be

00:27:02 ◼   ► such a cool thing if you could, you know,

00:27:05 ◼   ► attach a PopSocket simply with magnets.

00:27:07 ◼   ► And based on the reviews and not having one in hand yet,

00:27:11 ◼   ► it sounds like that's unlikely to work out very well.

00:27:15 ◼   ► And I saw, I'm not gonna be able to find it

00:27:16 ◼   ► for the show notes, but I saw a tweet

00:27:18 ◼   ► where somebody was recording themselves putting

00:27:20 ◼   ► a iPhone 12 or 12 Pro with the wallet attachment

00:27:24 ◼   ► into their jeans.

00:27:26 ◼   ► And I guess they had relatively tight jeans on

00:27:28 ◼   ► and the wallet just kind of like slid right off

00:27:30 ◼   ► as the phone was going into the jeans.

00:27:32 ◼   ► And again, I haven't had this in hand.

00:27:34 ◼   ► Maybe I'm making a mountain out of nothing

00:27:36 ◼   ► but it certainly seemed like, as you said, Marco,

00:27:38 ◼   ► it was, I guess, sufficient, adequately strong

00:27:42 ◼   ► but not super strong.

00:27:44 ◼   ► And I feel like it would be neat if it was possible

00:27:48 ◼   ► for the other side of the magnet to be crazy strong.

00:27:50 ◼   ► That's probably also not how magnets work, but whatever.

00:27:52 ◼   ► I just think it would be neat to be able to do

00:27:54 ◼   ► like a car mount with only a magnet,

00:27:56 ◼   ► a PopSocket with only a magnet.

00:27:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, the problem is that magnets hold

00:28:01 ◼   ► pretty strongly in one direction

00:28:02 ◼   ► but pretty weakly in the other.

00:28:03 ◼   ► And so the force of the magnets clinging together,

00:28:06 ◼   ► like the force of the, like the sandwich closing force

00:28:09 ◼   ► between the wallet and the phone,

00:28:11 ◼   ► if you think about them as pieces of bread,

00:28:12 ◼   ► like the sandwich pushing together force is strong

00:28:16 ◼   ► but the like slidey force, when you try to slide them

00:28:19 ◼   ► like laterally from each other, is very weak.

00:28:21 ◼   ► - You're killing the physicists in the audience.

00:28:23 ◼   ► - Yes, sorry, I don't know the terms for this.

00:28:25 ◼   ► But basically like, you know, it's,

00:28:27 ◼   ► if you tried to pull the wallet straight off the back,

00:28:30 ◼   ► it would take much more force

00:28:32 ◼   ► than if you slide it off the back.

00:28:34 ◼   ► And so I think that's gonna impact like

00:28:37 ◼   ► what kinds of accessories make sense

00:28:40 ◼   ► and what kind of strength you actually get in practice.

00:28:43 ◼   ► - I think you can work on some of this

00:28:44 ◼   ► because like, so this document with the requirements,

00:28:48 ◼   ► people don't have to follow these requirements.

00:28:50 ◼   ► I'm sure people can ship whatever they want.

00:28:51 ◼   ► So if you wanna make a pop socket

00:28:53 ◼   ► with those super strong rare earth magnets inside it

00:28:57 ◼   ► and see if you can find a way to get that

00:28:58 ◼   ► to successfully attach to a MagSafe iPhone

00:29:01 ◼   ► without destroying the phone,

00:29:03 ◼   ► that will be harder to pull off

00:29:04 ◼   ► and could work with a pop socket

00:29:06 ◼   ► and will totally probably not be compliant

00:29:08 ◼   ► with this document at all.

00:29:09 ◼   ► But if it can be made, people will make it and try it.

00:29:12 ◼   ► And one of the pop socket brands said they were making

00:29:15 ◼   ► some kind of MagSafe pop socket.

00:29:16 ◼   ► It wasn't clear to me whether they were saying

00:29:19 ◼   ► they were gonna make a pop socket

00:29:20 ◼   ► that can attach with MagSafe

00:29:22 ◼   ► or they were going to make a MagSafe enabled case

00:29:25 ◼   ► that had a pop socket mechanically part of the case,

00:29:28 ◼   ► which is another thing that you can buy.

00:29:29 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:29:30 ◼   ► There's magnets inside the phone.

00:29:34 ◼   ► What is outside the phone is up to whatever people

00:29:37 ◼   ► can manufacture that will still function.

00:29:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think I'm gonna recommend that if you wanna use

00:29:41 ◼   ► any kind of magnetic pop socket,

00:29:43 ◼   ► I'm gonna recommend you also get AppleCare.

00:29:45 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:29:46 ◼   ► It'll come with the pop socket.

00:29:48 ◼   ► Things with the wallet attachment,

00:29:51 ◼   ► a lot of people have done that in their reviews

00:29:53 ◼   ► of trying to stick it in their pocket

00:29:54 ◼   ► and showing how the wallet just slides off.

00:29:55 ◼   ► It doesn't look like it's particularly firmly attached.

00:29:58 ◼   ► I think maybe even Gruber mentioned this,

00:30:00 ◼   ► that you could actually use that little wallet

00:30:01 ◼   ► just as a wallet by itself without attaching it

00:30:03 ◼   ► to your phone and just have it do

00:30:04 ◼   ► attach to your phone sometime if it's in a loose pocket.

00:30:06 ◼   ► But it's a little bit like the infomercials on,

00:30:10 ◼   ► not infomercials, like the As Seen on TV product advertising

00:30:13 ◼   ► said, "Does this ever happen to you?"

00:30:15 ◼   ► And you're trying to scramble eggs

00:30:16 ◼   ► and you catch your house on fire, right?

00:30:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're doing it wrong.

00:30:18 ◼   ► - Maybe that actually happens to Casey.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Like, if you actually had that wallet attachment

00:30:24 ◼   ► and you wanted to put it in your pocket,

00:30:25 ◼   ► you just turn the wallet part to face your leg

00:30:28 ◼   ► instead of facing out and then slide it in your pocket

00:30:30 ◼   ► and it would probably be more successful, let's say.

00:30:32 ◼   ► Like, I can't imagine--

00:30:33 ◼   ► - No, no, think about the protrusion of the phone

00:30:37 ◼   ► that would result from having it wallet side in.

00:30:39 ◼   ► - I'm not saying that the wallet attachment

00:30:44 ◼   ► is perfectly fine in your pocket.

00:30:45 ◼   ► Clearly, it's like you said, Marco,

00:30:46 ◼   ► that the force in that direction

00:30:48 ◼   ► is enough to dislodge it no matter what.

00:30:50 ◼   ► Even if you turned it around to face your leg

00:30:52 ◼   ► and slid it in, it still could dislodge the wallet.

00:30:54 ◼   ► It's just that they would both be in your pocket at the end.

00:30:55 ◼   ► So it's not a good design.

00:30:57 ◼   ► This is not a good accessory.

00:30:58 ◼   ► But I feel like the people making the videos

00:31:01 ◼   ► put it in the worst possible light

00:31:03 ◼   ► to show how it pops off because it, you know.

00:31:05 ◼   ► All I can say is if you plan on putting your phone

00:31:09 ◼   ► in a pants pocket, don't bother getting the wallet thing

00:31:13 ◼   ► because you'll forget and put it the other way

00:31:15 ◼   ► or it'll slide off and you won't notice

00:31:17 ◼   ► and that's probably not great.

00:31:18 ◼   ► In a jacket pocket, I think it would fit fine.

00:31:21 ◼   ► - Or even just loose pants or a purse.

00:31:23 ◼   ► If you have cargo shorts, those are super loose.

00:31:26 ◼   ► - I don't know about a purse.

00:31:28 ◼   ► A purse is a hostile environment

00:31:29 ◼   ► with all that stuff sloshing around in there

00:31:30 ◼   ► and they could get dislodged from each other.

00:31:32 ◼   ► Personally, I don't actually understand the idea

00:31:34 ◼   ► of putting credit cards attached to your phone.

00:31:37 ◼   ► I guess it's like people have such a minimal wallet

00:31:39 ◼   ► that they don't carry anything except for one or two cards

00:31:42 ◼   ► and a little tiny bit of cash.

00:31:43 ◼   ► - You don't even understand what that means.

00:31:45 ◼   ► That is impossible for your brain to understand,

00:31:47 ◼   ► the idea of a minimal wallet.

00:31:50 ◼   ► - So this thing is, on the wallet again,

00:31:52 ◼   ► it holds three cards.

00:31:53 ◼   ► That's what it holds, three credit cards.

00:31:55 ◼   ► It doesn't hold four.

00:31:57 ◼   ► You can do two or one, right?

00:31:58 ◼   ► How minimal does your life have to be

00:32:02 ◼   ► that you only have three cards?

00:32:03 ◼   ► Okay, driver's license, two credit cards.

00:32:06 ◼   ► That's pretty minimal.

00:32:08 ◼   ► That is, it is a very demanding minimum.

00:32:10 ◼   ► I don't know how many people can pull that off routinely.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Maybe you don't need any credit cards

00:32:16 ◼   ► 'cause you pay for everything in Apple Pay.

00:32:17 ◼   ► That's fine too.

00:32:18 ◼   ► Maybe you normally take your big wallet,

00:32:19 ◼   ► but sometimes you don't.

00:32:20 ◼   ► But I just feel like it's so minimal.

00:32:23 ◼   ► For something from Apple, they're usually trying to find,

00:32:25 ◼   ► to aim at the mass market,

00:32:27 ◼   ► I feel like that wallet accessory

00:32:28 ◼   ► is not aimed at the mass market.

00:32:29 ◼   ► It's aimed at minimal wallet people

00:32:31 ◼   ► or people who love to just move their driver's license

00:32:33 ◼   ► or their ID or whatever to and from.

00:32:36 ◼   ► Or maybe people don't take their IDs with them.

00:32:37 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:32:38 ◼   ► I don't know how regular people live with their wallets.

00:32:39 ◼   ► It just seems like it's so minimal and so fixed.

00:32:43 ◼   ► You can have two credit cards

00:32:44 ◼   ► and how many bills can you fit in there

00:32:47 ◼   ► if people still carry cash?

00:32:48 ◼   ► No coins, obviously.

00:32:50 ◼   ► How about a transit card, one credit card and your ID?

00:32:54 ◼   ► But no cash then 'cause there's no more room for cash?

00:32:58 ◼   ► - Health insurance card.

00:33:00 ◼   ► Does anybody, I don't know.

00:33:03 ◼   ► I am a fairly minimal wallet person,

00:33:06 ◼   ► but even I can't get down to just three cards

00:33:09 ◼   ► and nothing else.

00:33:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, same.

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00:35:24 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:35:28 ◼   ► - Jon, why don't you tell us

00:35:28 ◼   ► about Periscope camera lenses, please.

00:35:31 ◼   ► - This is from Timo Grun who says

00:35:33 ◼   ► that the phone cameras in Android phones

00:35:35 ◼   ► that are Periscope lenses,

00:35:37 ◼   ► which it's not like a submarine Periscope

00:35:39 ◼   ► where like Periscope comes out of submarine.

00:35:41 ◼   ► Think of that, that would be a lot cooler.

00:35:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, it would. - Yeah, think of that,

00:35:44 ◼   ► but the entire Periscope is inside the phone

00:35:46 ◼   ► and just the little part that pokes out

00:35:48 ◼   ► is parking out of a hole in the phone, right?

00:35:50 ◼   ► Well, anyway, he tells me

00:35:53 ◼   ► that there is no moving lens elements in those.

00:35:56 ◼   ► It's just a way to get more focal length, right?

00:35:59 ◼   ► So they are inside the phone

00:36:00 ◼   ► and there's this long tunnel where the lenses are away

00:36:02 ◼   ► but they don't actually move relative to each other.

00:36:04 ◼   ► So it's a way to get a big zoom, but it's still fixed zoom.

00:36:08 ◼   ► I don't know if there's some Android phone out there

00:36:10 ◼   ► that actually has moving lens elements,

00:36:12 ◼   ► but according to Timo, no such luck.

00:36:16 ◼   ► So that makes a little bit more sense.

00:36:18 ◼   ► And it still is like the only way

00:36:20 ◼   ► to get a reasonable focal distance

00:36:22 ◼   ► without actually have something sticking out of your phone,

00:36:24 ◼   ► but no optical zoom.

00:36:26 ◼   ► - So I'm not trying to be snarky or funny or anything.

00:36:31 ◼   ► I feel like I've heard people that we know and trust,

00:36:35 ◼   ► different people, say the iPhones

00:36:37 ◼   ► have absolutely become cheaper this year.

00:36:39 ◼   ► And then I've heard other people say

00:36:40 ◼   ► the iPhones have absolutely become more expensive this year.

00:36:43 ◼   ► Can one of you shed light on this?

00:36:45 ◼   ► Like what is the real deal here?

00:36:47 ◼   ► - It depends on what you care about.

00:36:49 ◼   ► Some of the price comparisons are confused

00:36:52 ◼   ► by the $30 discount that you get

00:36:54 ◼   ► for these special deals with everybody,

00:36:55 ◼   ► which by the way has been extended to T-Mobile as well.

00:36:58 ◼   ► So now in the US, at least, it's fairly uniform

00:37:00 ◼   ► that they all do this $30 offer,

00:37:01 ◼   ► some special offer, whatever thing,

00:37:03 ◼   ► but also because of the mini.

00:37:05 ◼   ► And if you're trying to compare

00:37:08 ◼   ► what the cheapest new iPhone was,

00:37:10 ◼   ► that's not a continuing model from last year,

00:37:13 ◼   ► but then you say, but wait a second, it's not the same

00:37:16 ◼   ► because last year I could get an 11, a non-pro 11,

00:37:19 ◼   ► but it's so much bigger than the mini.

00:37:20 ◼   ► So how can you tell me the mini is the replacement

00:37:23 ◼   ► for the 11, but it's so much smaller.

00:37:25 ◼   ► So isn't that a worse phone?

00:37:27 ◼   ► Unless you like the mini better

00:37:28 ◼   ► and then it's a better phone.

00:37:29 ◼   ► But then what about the storage size comparisons?

00:37:31 ◼   ► It's a little bit confusing.

00:37:32 ◼   ► I think net-net, I would say the new iPhones this year

00:37:37 ◼   ► are slightly more expensive towards the bottom of the range

00:37:40 ◼   ► because of the OLED screens.

00:37:42 ◼   ► But it's confused by the fact that they're different sizes

00:37:44 ◼   ► and the storage changes and the partner deals

00:37:47 ◼   ► and so on and so forth.

00:37:49 ◼   ► When it was LCD on the lower end,

00:37:50 ◼   ► you probably got more or less more phone for your money.

00:37:55 ◼   ► But in the grand scheme of things,

00:37:57 ◼   ► I would just call it a wash

00:37:58 ◼   ► because the differences we're talking about here

00:38:00 ◼   ► are 10, 20, 30 bucks and maybe more

00:38:02 ◼   ► if you start subtracting out,

00:38:04 ◼   ► which we'll get to in a second,

00:38:05 ◼   ► the power adapter that you might have to buy

00:38:07 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:38:08 ◼   ► So I can understand someone making the argument

00:38:11 ◼   ► and being successful in the numbers

00:38:13 ◼   ► that they are slightly more expensive this year,

00:38:14 ◼   ► especially on the low end.

00:38:15 ◼   ► But it's not the type of difference

00:38:17 ◼   ► that I think is either lasting or particularly significant

00:38:21 ◼   ► because I think the OLED screen prices next year

00:38:23 ◼   ► will go down and things will basically even out.

00:38:27 ◼   ► And related to that, we talked about this

00:38:29 ◼   ► with the new iPhones and how they don't include headphones

00:38:32 ◼   ► or a power adapter.

00:38:33 ◼   ► But it's like, but we don't know

00:38:35 ◼   ► how much the new iPhones cost.

00:38:37 ◼   ► Again, with the OLED screen,

00:38:38 ◼   ► maybe the new iPhones just cost more.

00:38:40 ◼   ► So the fact that they didn't really adjust the prices

00:38:42 ◼   ► as compared, it's not clear to us that we're saving any money

00:38:45 ◼   ► by not having those accessories in the box.

00:38:46 ◼   ► In fact, the prices look more or less the same

00:38:48 ◼   ► as they were last year in the ballpark.

00:38:50 ◼   ► So it feels like we're getting cheated out of that money.

00:38:54 ◼   ► And what I said in the last show is like,

00:38:55 ◼   ► if for example, they take an existing phone

00:38:58 ◼   ► that comes with headphones and a power adapter

00:39:01 ◼   ► and removes those from that existing product

00:39:03 ◼   ► and keeps the price the same,

00:39:05 ◼   ► then you know Apple's just taking that as extra profit.

00:39:08 ◼   ► Well, that's exactly what they did.

00:39:09 ◼   ► The XR11 and SE, exactly the same phones

00:39:12 ◼   ► as they were last year.

00:39:13 ◼   ► If you buy them now, you get them without headphones

00:39:16 ◼   ► and a power adapter.

00:39:17 ◼   ► And did Apple adjust the prices?

00:39:18 ◼   ► No, they did not.

00:39:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:39:21 ◼   ► - At least now they're being consistent.

00:39:22 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Yeah, so I mean, it's just a little bit

00:39:25 ◼   ► of extra profit margin on some old phones

00:39:28 ◼   ► and who knows, but if the margins are exactly the same

00:39:31 ◼   ► on the new phones, because the OLED prices have gone down

00:39:34 ◼   ► since the iPhone X, but OLEDs are still more expensive

00:39:37 ◼   ► than LCDs, so I feel like the reason the prices

00:39:40 ◼   ► are up a little bit on the low end phones

00:39:41 ◼   ► is mostly due to that OLED screen,

00:39:43 ◼   ► which if the parts reports of past phones

00:39:46 ◼   ► are to be believed were the most expensive part

00:39:49 ◼   ► in the iPhone line with the introduction of the X.

00:39:53 ◼   ► More expensive than the system on a chip,

00:39:55 ◼   ► more expensive than the battery,

00:39:56 ◼   ► the biggest single expense was more expensive than the case,

00:39:58 ◼   ► the biggest single expense is the screen.

00:40:00 ◼   ► - Another thing that's probably expensive

00:40:02 ◼   ► within these phones is batteries.

00:40:04 ◼   ► John, where could I find the official battery specs

00:40:06 ◼   ► for every Apple product ever?

00:40:07 ◼   ► - Apparently it's in some weird, you know,

00:40:10 ◼   ► some legal compliance document where they have to list

00:40:13 ◼   ► all this stuff, so we'll put links in the show notes.

00:40:15 ◼   ► It's a little bit of a trick.

00:40:16 ◼   ► You have to start off at like apple.com/legal/moreresources/gtc.html

00:40:21 ◼   ► and from there it links to another page

00:40:23 ◼   ► and from there it links to a PDF

00:40:24 ◼   ► and there you can find specs on all the batteries

00:40:27 ◼   ► for all the products, not just the new phones.

00:40:29 ◼   ► The problem is, problem my perspective,

00:40:32 ◼   ► 'cause I don't know what this means,

00:40:33 ◼   ► is it gives the battery ratings in watt hours

00:40:36 ◼   ► and watt hours is the same as milliamp hours

00:40:39 ◼   ► divided by volts, but I don't know what voltage

00:40:42 ◼   ► to divide by to convert watt hours into milliamp hours

00:40:45 ◼   ► because we're always used to comparing

00:40:46 ◼   ► the iPhone battery sizes by milliamp hours, right?

00:40:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause aren't they usually around like 3.7 volts

00:40:53 ◼   ► for lithium, but I don't know.

00:40:54 ◼   ► There could be, like there's like slight variations

00:40:56 ◼   ► some years, I think, that makes it hard to calculate.

00:40:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, anyway, so Roland who sent this in

00:41:03 ◼   ► did some calculations and I guess we can't really

00:41:07 ◼   ► put these in the show notes, but you can look them up

00:41:08 ◼   ► in the document if you want.

00:41:09 ◼   ► So the iPhone 12 mini has an 8.57 watt hour battery,

00:41:14 ◼   ► but there's nothing to compare that to,

00:41:15 ◼   ► so we don't know if it's bigger or smaller.

00:41:17 ◼   ► The iPhone 12 has a 10.78 watt hour battery,

00:41:20 ◼   ► which is down 9.5% from the 11.

00:41:25 ◼   ► So smaller battery in the 12.

00:41:27 ◼   ► 12 Pro is also down, or has the same size battery

00:41:30 ◼   ► and that's down 7.6% versus the 11 non-Pro from last year,

00:41:35 ◼   ► 'cause that was, I suppose, a smaller battery?

00:41:39 ◼   ► Oh yeah, it's a smaller battery in the Pro,

00:41:42 ◼   ► 'cause the 11 was the beefier phone last year.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And the iPhone 12 Pro Max has a 14.13 watt hour battery

00:41:50 ◼   ► which is down 6.1% versus the old Max.

00:41:53 ◼   ► So all the batteries on the phones

00:41:54 ◼   ► that have roughly comparable phones last year got smaller.

00:41:59 ◼   ► It makes kinda sense, like we know the phones,

00:42:01 ◼   ► the new Pro phones are like 0.7 millimeters thinner,

00:42:04 ◼   ► so where is that gonna come from?

00:42:05 ◼   ► You gotta have a smaller battery in there,

00:42:06 ◼   ► that makes sense.

00:42:07 ◼   ► Also the old iPhone 11, there is no phone that size anymore,

00:42:13 ◼   ► now it's kind of shrunken down.

00:42:14 ◼   ► The 12 Pro has the similar size screen,

00:42:17 ◼   ► but in a smaller case, right?

00:42:18 ◼   ► So these batteries are all smaller.

00:42:20 ◼   ► The battery ratings, according to Apple's battery lifetime,

00:42:24 ◼   ► look like they're in the same ballpark.

00:42:26 ◼   ► I suppose the five nanometer system on a chip

00:42:29 ◼   ► is where the savings come from,

00:42:30 ◼   ► how can we get away with having anywhere

00:42:32 ◼   ► from a six to almost 10% smaller battery

00:42:35 ◼   ► and still have similar battery life?

00:42:36 ◼   ► Eh, five nanometer, maybe that'll do it.

00:42:38 ◼   ► So once we get these phones,

00:42:39 ◼   ► we'll see what the battery life is like.

00:42:40 ◼   ► But in case you're wondering, it seems like if watt hours

00:42:44 ◼   ► are any kind of reasonable comparison of battery capacity,

00:42:48 ◼   ► for example, if the voltage is the same across generations,

00:42:51 ◼   ► then these are slightly smaller batteries in these phones.

00:42:54 ◼   ► - So we have a old, old bet to settle.

00:42:57 ◼   ► From two years ago, on the 13th of September, 2018,

00:43:01 ◼   ► John said, "In the next five years,

00:43:03 ◼   ► "Apple will sell a new phone that is smaller than the 10."

00:43:06 ◼   ► And Marco said something on the lines of,

00:43:08 ◼   ► "I'll take that bet."

00:43:09 ◼   ► And then there was a back and forth,

00:43:10 ◼   ► and it was concluded that if that happens,

00:43:13 ◼   ► Marco will own John a dollar.

00:43:15 ◼   ► So Marco, if you wouldn't mind Apple Pay Cashing,

00:43:17 ◼   ► John, one dollar as we're sitting here,

00:43:19 ◼   ► you can do it on the show, I'll allow it, John,

00:43:23 ◼   ► then if you could please settle that bet,

00:43:25 ◼   ► I would appreciate it.

00:43:26 ◼   ► - I will attempt to do that right now.

00:43:27 ◼   ► - I had forgotten all about this bet.

00:43:29 ◼   ► - So did I.

00:43:30 ◼   ► - It was, I mean, it was said within the next five years,

00:43:32 ◼   ► and we're like two years and change into that,

00:43:34 ◼   ► so I got it right in the middle of the range there.

00:43:36 ◼   ► Yeah, Marco was adamant that they wouldn't make

00:43:37 ◼   ► a new, smaller phone, not like some existing phone

00:43:40 ◼   ► that they were still selling,

00:43:41 ◼   ► but a new, smaller phone than the 10,

00:43:42 ◼   ► and I was pretty sure they would, and they did.

00:43:45 ◼   ► - How about them Apples?

00:43:46 ◼   ► - Marco wanted to bet five dollars,

00:43:48 ◼   ► but I talked him down to one dollar.

00:43:49 ◼   ► How's that for shrewd negotiation?

00:43:51 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:53 ◼   ► - This was from Tim Chatton, by the way.

00:43:55 ◼   ► (phone chimes)

00:43:56 ◼   ► Oh, I heard that, I know that noise.

00:43:58 ◼   ► Well done.

00:44:00 ◼   ► See how easy that is?

00:44:01 ◼   ► You can do it while you record,

00:44:03 ◼   ► and you didn't even put an ampersand in, did you?

00:44:04 ◼   ► - I heard the noise over on Marco's side,

00:44:06 ◼   ► but oh, that finally came through over here.

00:44:08 ◼   ► I was like, what is this lag?

00:44:09 ◼   ► - I guess you're not a dollar to somebody.

00:44:11 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:44:12 ◼   ► - Oh, I think I have auto receive now, yeah.

00:44:15 ◼   ► - Receive just now, I did it.

00:44:17 ◼   ► I got a dollar.

00:44:18 ◼   ► - Yay.

00:44:18 ◼   ► - I got a dollar.

00:44:19 ◼   ► - I hate being in debt, I had to pay immediately.

00:44:21 ◼   ► - Hey, hey, hey, hey.

00:44:22 ◼   ► - Oh, I have some very quick follow up,

00:44:25 ◼   ► before I forget, on my broken time machine drive

00:44:30 ◼   ► with the 7.68 terabyte Micron SSD.

00:44:34 ◼   ► - Right, what technology did you buy?

00:44:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:44:38 ◼   ► - They have a new one with Ryzen CPUs in them.

00:44:40 ◼   ► - With Verizon 5G CPUs in them?

00:44:42 ◼   ► - That's what I said, yeah.

00:44:43 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:44:44 ◼   ► So anyway, I got a new enclosure.

00:44:48 ◼   ► My first theory was, well, I have these two giant SSDs

00:44:52 ◼   ► in this enclosure, it was kind of seeming flaky,

00:44:55 ◼   ► maybe the enclosure is bad.

00:44:56 ◼   ► So before I go through the hassle of trying to get

00:45:00 ◼   ► some kind of warranty service from Micron,

00:45:02 ◼   ► let me replace the enclosure, 'cause they're really cheap.

00:45:05 ◼   ► And I ordered some enclosures, came in,

00:45:09 ◼   ► and I learned very quickly that almost all

00:45:14 ◼   ► 2.5 inch disk enclosures don't support the capacity

00:45:18 ◼   ► of seven terabytes, or 7.6 terabytes.

00:45:21 ◼   ► - Oh, interesting.

00:45:22 ◼   ► - They have capacity limits still.

00:45:23 ◼   ► In this day and age, you can get a brand new USB-C,

00:45:26 ◼   ► USB three point whatever enclosure for a SATA drive today,

00:45:31 ◼   ► that if it's made for 2.5 inch drives,

00:45:34 ◼   ► which all these little bus powered ones are,

00:45:36 ◼   ► most of them have a capacity limit of four gigs,

00:45:39 ◼   ► or four terabytes.

00:45:40 ◼   ► I don't know why this hasn't, well, I guess I do know

00:45:44 ◼   ► why, 'cause hard drives, like 2.5 inch hard drives,

00:45:48 ◼   ► I don't think are available anything bigger than four gigs,

00:45:50 ◼   ► or four terabytes.

00:45:51 ◼   ► - I think there's one that maxes out at five.

00:45:53 ◼   ► People used to sell fives, but it was actually

00:45:55 ◼   ► two 2.5 inch drives, like combining to five,

00:45:59 ◼   ► but I think there might be a single five terabyte mechanism.

00:46:02 ◼   ► But anyway, it seems kind of borderline to have stuff,

00:46:05 ◼   ► to have chipsets limited to four, when that is

00:46:07 ◼   ► even anywhere close to the actual maximum drive size.

00:46:10 ◼   ► - Right, and I would assume that the 2.5 inch

00:46:14 ◼   ► interface chips would probably be the same chips

00:46:17 ◼   ► as a 3.5 inch enclosure, is that 3.5 inch drives

00:46:20 ◼   ► are routinely above eight terabytes now.

00:46:22 ◼   ► - I don't know, because the 3.5 ones aren't gonna be

00:46:24 ◼   ► bus powered, right?

00:46:25 ◼   ► So the 2.5 ones, the entire chipset has to be bus powered,

00:46:28 ◼   ► and that's a whole other kettle of fish.

00:46:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, well anyway, so anyone out there who,

00:46:33 ◼   ► for whatever reason, wants to buy an almost eight terabyte

00:46:36 ◼   ► SSD, and you wanna put it in a USB enclosure,

00:46:39 ◼   ► know that most of them don't support the capacity.

00:46:43 ◼   ► The one I bought the first time happened to support it.

00:46:46 ◼   ► I did eventually get another one that did.

00:46:49 ◼   ► I will put a link to the good one that supports it

00:46:51 ◼   ► in the show notes, it's by Cable Matters,

00:46:53 ◼   ► and otherwise it seems fine.

00:46:55 ◼   ► Anyway, I replaced the enclosure with,

00:46:57 ◼   ► instead of the one double enclosure,

00:46:58 ◼   ► I now have two single enclosures,

00:47:00 ◼   ► and they seem to work perfectly.

00:47:02 ◼   ► I've been running it for almost a week now,

00:47:05 ◼   ► and I've had no issues, so it does seem like

00:47:08 ◼   ► it was simply a defective enclosure,

00:47:10 ◼   ► and I'm happily back to my non-synology lifestyle so far.

00:47:15 ◼   ► - Oh, fine.

00:47:16 ◼   ► - I should've made you a one dollar bet about that too.

00:47:18 ◼   ► - Yeah. (laughs)

00:47:20 ◼   ► - Well, I just assume that I'm right from now on.

00:47:21 ◼   ► It'll save us a lot of time.

00:47:23 ◼   ► - It would certainly save us a lot of feedback email.

00:47:25 ◼   ► Moving on, Alex Chan had a very interesting blog post

00:47:29 ◼   ► that went up over the last few days,

00:47:31 ◼   ► and the question was asked on this show

00:47:34 ◼   ► and other places as well, how much do I, whoever,

00:47:38 ◼   ► really use the ultra-wide and telephoto lenses on my 11 Pro?

00:47:43 ◼   ► And Jason Snell had answered this question

00:47:47 ◼   ► by way of, what is it, Smart Folders in Photos?

00:47:51 ◼   ► - Smart Albums. - Whatever it's called.

00:47:52 ◼   ► Smart Albums, thank you, in Photos,

00:47:53 ◼   ► and we'll put a link to that in the show notes.

00:47:55 ◼   ► But Alex, coming right after my own heart,

00:47:59 ◼   ► decided to use ExifTool, and if you're not familiar,

00:48:02 ◼   ► ExifTool is a command line tool that lets you

00:48:04 ◼   ► read or write Exif data, E-X-I-F,

00:48:07 ◼   ► which contains a whole bunch of metadata

00:48:08 ◼   ► about pictures, and Alex wrote a one-liner

00:48:12 ◼   ► that will crawl a particular folder

00:48:16 ◼   ► and spit out the results of how many,

00:48:19 ◼   ► how many of your pictures have been taken

00:48:20 ◼   ► with each of the different lenses.

00:48:22 ◼   ► Now this gets very complicated very quickly

00:48:25 ◼   ► because apparently in certain scenarios,

00:48:27 ◼   ► you'll see kind of unusual lens names,

00:48:30 ◼   ► like dual camera, for example,

00:48:32 ◼   ► which people thought might be portrait mode photos,

00:48:35 ◼   ► except maybe it's not, and I could go on for hours,

00:48:37 ◼   ► but suffice to say, I looked at my personal results

00:48:41 ◼   ► for 2019 and 2020, and I'll put it in the show notes,

00:48:44 ◼   ► but basically the summary for me anyway

00:48:48 ◼   ► was I used the ultra-wide for 7% of my photos,

00:48:52 ◼   ► the wide for standard lens for 83% of my photos,

00:48:56 ◼   ► and the telephoto lens for a full 10%

00:48:58 ◼   ► of the photos I've taken with my 11 Pro,

00:49:00 ◼   ► which is probably about on par with what I guessed,

00:49:04 ◼   ► but it is nice to be able to see those numbers

00:49:06 ◼   ► plain as day right in front of you.

00:49:07 ◼   ► Oh, actually I should specify, this is both Aaron and me.

00:49:10 ◼   ► I said me, but that's not true.

00:49:12 ◼   ► This was our joint, like merged photo library,

00:49:16 ◼   ► so that was actually the both of us,

00:49:17 ◼   ► but nevertheless, the LISP family, 7% ultra-wide,

00:49:21 ◼   ► 83% wide, 10% telephoto, and that's just how we stacked up,

00:49:24 ◼   ► and I presume neither of you did your homework,

00:49:26 ◼   ► and that's okay, but--

00:49:28 ◼   ► - I totally did my homework.

00:49:29 ◼   ► (Brennan gasps)

00:49:31 ◼   ► - Oh my God, that is a bet I would've lost.

00:49:34 ◼   ► That is a bet I very much would've lost.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Holy smokes, Marco, I am so proud of you.

00:49:38 ◼   ► So where did you end up?

00:49:39 ◼   ► - I mean, in typical fashion,

00:49:40 ◼   ► I did it like 15 minutes before the show, but still.

00:49:43 ◼   ► - Of course.

00:49:44 ◼   ► - That's when I looked at notes and saw this,

00:49:45 ◼   ► I'm like, uh-oh, I better run these numbers.

00:49:48 ◼   ► So I actually came out roughly where I expected to

00:49:53 ◼   ► with a couple of exceptions.

00:49:54 ◼   ► So out of the 2,400 or so photos I shot

00:49:59 ◼   ► since having the iPhone 11 Pro,

00:50:03 ◼   ► I have about 9% ultra-wide, 75% 1X,

00:50:08 ◼   ► and about 16% telephoto.

00:50:13 ◼   ► - Oh wow, that's fairly significant.

00:50:16 ◼   ► - That is more frequent use of the telephoto lens

00:50:19 ◼   ► than I would have guessed,

00:50:21 ◼   ► but it is also still just 16%.

00:50:25 ◼   ► If 16% of the time, the photos are a little bit worse

00:50:28 ◼   ► because I had to use digital zoom to get them

00:50:30 ◼   ► instead of using the actual optical lens,

00:50:33 ◼   ► that's not great,

00:50:34 ◼   ► but if it comes with other substantial benefits

00:50:38 ◼   ► and I don't have the option to have both

00:50:40 ◼   ► those substantial benefits and the cool telephoto lens,

00:50:42 ◼   ► then I think I might accept those benefits.

00:50:45 ◼   ► And so the ultra-wide, if I need the ultra-wide,

00:50:50 ◼   ► that can't be simulated with the 1X.

00:50:54 ◼   ► If you need something wider than what you have,

00:50:57 ◼   ► you can't interpolate it.

00:50:58 ◼   ► You have to just capture it.

00:51:00 ◼   ► So if I'm going to have only two lenses,

00:51:03 ◼   ► I think I would pick the 0.5 and the 1X

00:51:07 ◼   ► because I actually have ended up using the 0.5X lens

00:51:10 ◼   ► more than I would have guessed.

00:51:11 ◼   ► When they announced it last year,

00:51:13 ◼   ► this was the first year that I had them,

00:51:15 ◼   ► I thought I'm never gonna use that.

00:51:18 ◼   ► I figured I would take one or two shots

00:51:21 ◼   ► for the novelty value when it was brand new

00:51:22 ◼   ► and I would never use it again.

00:51:24 ◼   ► - That's what I thought too.

00:51:25 ◼   ► - But in fact, I have actually used it.

00:51:27 ◼   ► And I looked through the pictures,

00:51:29 ◼   ► what are my ultra-wide pictures?

00:51:32 ◼   ► And it isn't just all up front

00:51:34 ◼   ► in the first few weeks of having the phone.

00:51:35 ◼   ► It's spread pretty evenly throughout the year

00:51:37 ◼   ► 'cause I do actually end up using it

00:51:39 ◼   ► more regularly than I would have guessed.

00:51:41 ◼   ► And then I looked through the 2X pictures

00:51:44 ◼   ► from the 2X lens that I'm about to lose

00:51:46 ◼   ► by going to the non-pro phone.

00:51:49 ◼   ► I was surprised, seeing a lot of them,

00:51:51 ◼   ► like oh yeah, I guess that is nice.

00:51:53 ◼   ► But again, when I open these pictures up

00:51:56 ◼   ► and I view them at full size,

00:51:58 ◼   ► I see oh, they actually are noticeably crappier

00:52:01 ◼   ► in quality compared to the 1X cameras.

00:52:03 ◼   ► They are significantly noisier.

00:52:05 ◼   ► A lot of times the color isn't as good,

00:52:07 ◼   ► the contrast isn't as good,

00:52:09 ◼   ► because it isn't as good of a camera.

00:52:11 ◼   ► And so I'm not talking about going from

00:52:14 ◼   ► having a 2X ability to having no 2X ability.

00:52:18 ◼   ► I'm going from having one compromised 2X ability

00:52:21 ◼   ► to having a differently compromised 2X ability.

00:52:23 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:52:24 ◼   ► And from that point of view,

00:52:26 ◼   ► I'm losing less than I would have thought.

00:52:30 ◼   ► Now one significant thing,

00:52:32 ◼   ► this is I guess an important follow up,

00:52:33 ◼   ► one massive thing that people wrote in to point out

00:52:37 ◼   ► that I just didn't even think about is portrait mode.

00:52:41 ◼   ► 'Cause I never use it, 'cause I really still hate it.

00:52:44 ◼   ► If you are a frequent user of portrait mode,

00:52:48 ◼   ► yeah, you should probably keep the telephoto lens,

00:52:50 ◼   ► 'cause it plays a pretty important role there.

00:52:52 ◼   ► So sorry for leaving that out.

00:52:55 ◼   ► - Don't the new phones do portrait mode

00:52:56 ◼   ► without the telephoto lens?

00:52:58 ◼   ► - They do, but it's worse.

00:53:00 ◼   ► - All right, I never use either, I don't know.

00:53:02 ◼   ► - I thought that, and I might be completely wrong about this,

00:53:06 ◼   ► but I thought that LIDAR was also assisting,

00:53:09 ◼   ► on the pros anyway, was assisting with portrait mode.

00:53:12 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:53:13 ◼   ► - And if that's true, something I'm curious to see,

00:53:16 ◼   ► and I feel like I saw this on

00:53:17 ◼   ► Panzareno's review on TechCrunch,

00:53:19 ◼   ► but one of the things,

00:53:21 ◼   ► I actually mostly like portrait mode,

00:53:23 ◼   ► like for the purpose that it serves,

00:53:25 ◼   ► I think it's pretty good.

00:53:27 ◼   ► But some of the faults of portrait mode,

00:53:30 ◼   ► or the common faults of portrait mode,

00:53:32 ◼   ► are glasses and like at the border

00:53:36 ◼   ► between a person's hair and the background,

00:53:38 ◼   ► things can get blurred either too much

00:53:40 ◼   ► or too little or just weirdly.

00:53:42 ◼   ► But the number one thing that drives me

00:53:44 ◼   ► just patty about portrait mode is when,

00:53:47 ◼   ► say you're standing and you have your hands on your hips,

00:53:51 ◼   ► like Peter Pan style, you know what I mean?

00:53:52 ◼   ► And so you have this empty space, like a triangle--

00:53:55 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, the little window.

00:53:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, you have that triangle of empty space

00:53:59 ◼   ► between your torso and your arms, right?

00:54:01 ◼   ► Well, in portrait mode, almost always,

00:54:03 ◼   ► that triangle of space will be perfectly in focus

00:54:08 ◼   ► because the algorithm hasn't realized

00:54:10 ◼   ► it needs to blur that area.

00:54:13 ◼   ► And then everything else can look pretty good,

00:54:14 ◼   ► but as soon as you look at the insides

00:54:17 ◼   ► of your Peter Pan arms, then you realize,

00:54:18 ◼   ► oh god, oh, again, ah.

00:54:22 ◼   ► And this happens to me all the time

00:54:24 ◼   ► when I try to use portrait mode.

00:54:26 ◼   ► And I wonder, and I haven't seen this written anywhere,

00:54:28 ◼   ► but I really wonder if the LIDAR sensor,

00:54:31 ◼   ► almost a camera, if the LIDAR sensor

00:54:33 ◼   ► is used for portrait mode even in the daytime,

00:54:37 ◼   ► will that help fix this problem?

00:54:40 ◼   ► Because for me, I'm not saying for Marco,

00:54:42 ◼   ► but for me, if that triangle was treated appropriately

00:54:47 ◼   ► by portrait mode or equivalent scenarios

00:54:50 ◼   ► that are similar to it,

00:54:51 ◼   ► I think I would use portrait mode a lot

00:54:53 ◼   ► because I can get over the weird merging

00:54:57 ◼   ► between a hairline and the background.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Like, that's not that big a deal to me.

00:55:00 ◼   ► But golly, the triangles that peek through

00:55:03 ◼   ► drive me bananas.

00:55:04 ◼   ► And so I am hopeful that maybe the 12 Pro

00:55:09 ◼   ► will make that a lot better.

00:55:11 ◼   ► But again, I could be speaking way out of turn

00:55:13 ◼   ► and maybe that's not even close to reality.

00:55:15 ◼   ► - LIDAR dots are pretty far apart, right?

00:55:17 ◼   ► So if you're expecting it to make

00:55:19 ◼   ► like a pixel perfect depth map of your arm,

00:55:22 ◼   ► no, it's not gonna do that.

00:55:23 ◼   ► Like, you've seen all the things with an IR camera,

00:55:26 ◼   ► how many LIDAR dots there are and how far.

00:55:28 ◼   ► It will certainly know that there are gaps there,

00:55:30 ◼   ► but then it will be up to coordination

00:55:32 ◼   ► with the sort of ML thing to say,

00:55:34 ◼   ► okay, LIDAR has detected that there's a big hole here,

00:55:38 ◼   ► but we don't know where the edges of the hole are.

00:55:39 ◼   ► We could roughly say they're kind of maybe triangular shaped,

00:55:42 ◼   ► but in terms of finding the actual edges,

00:55:44 ◼   ► then it would have to stick the ML on it and say,

00:55:46 ◼   ► find the edge of the arm and the body.

00:55:49 ◼   ► - In theory, you could definitely improve things,

00:55:50 ◼   ► but I just don't like this whole feature,

00:55:53 ◼   ► so I don't really care how well it does,

00:55:55 ◼   ► but you try that out.

00:55:56 ◼   ► You try some Peter Pan arms when you get your phone

00:55:58 ◼   ► and we'll see how it does.

00:55:59 ◼   ► - I absolutely will.

00:56:00 ◼   ► I definitely will.

00:56:01 ◼   ► - Why is it Peter Pan arms?

00:56:02 ◼   ► Is Peter Pan known for "Hands on Hips"?

00:56:05 ◼   ► I guess I suppose.

00:56:06 ◼   ► - I mean, like I think of like "Hook", the movie "Hook",

00:56:08 ◼   ► which I liked and I know nobody else did and that's fine.

00:56:11 ◼   ► - The one with Dustin Hoffman?

00:56:12 ◼   ► - Yes, and Robin Williams.

00:56:14 ◼   ► I love that movie.

00:56:15 ◼   ► - Okay, sure.

00:56:16 ◼   ► Yep, not the animated Peter Pan, but that one.

00:56:18 ◼   ► - All right.

00:56:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, consider I was like 10 when "Hook" came out.

00:56:22 ◼   ► And so I was like right in the rough age group

00:56:26 ◼   ► for when that would be great.

00:56:27 ◼   ► - "Hook" was like contemporary for us.

00:56:28 ◼   ► Like it was made for us.

00:56:30 ◼   ► - Yes, exactly right.

00:56:32 ◼   ► So anyways, so yeah, I just keep thinking of like

00:56:35 ◼   ► Robin Williams like floating through the silhouette

00:56:38 ◼   ► he had cut in Captain Hook's sail, you know,

00:56:40 ◼   ► with his arms, with his hands, you know,

00:56:43 ◼   ► fisted with on his hips and he's just got that triangle.

00:56:45 ◼   ► - Spoiler.

00:56:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, spoiler, spoiler.

00:56:48 ◼   ► Actually, that is actually a pretty big spoiler

00:56:50 ◼   ► for a 20 year old movie, but here we are.

00:56:52 ◼   ► So anyways, so the point is, I'm going to try that

00:56:55 ◼   ► once my phones come in, which I'm really looking forward to.

00:56:59 ◼   ► John, I hope you didn't do your homework,

00:57:01 ◼   ► but did you do your homework?

00:57:02 ◼   ► - No, I thought this was for Marco

00:57:04 ◼   ► because he's the one getting the camera without the lens,

00:57:06 ◼   ► but I don't have to check 'cause I'm getting the camera

00:57:08 ◼   ► with all the lenses, so I don't have to worry about that.

00:57:10 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:57:11 ◼   ► - We are sponsored this week by Hey.com.

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00:58:45 ◼   ► - What did you buy?

00:58:50 ◼   ► And I'd also like to know, did you buy a case

00:58:53 ◼   ► and did you buy any sort of AppleCare Plus?

00:58:55 ◼   ► And we will start with you, Jon.

00:58:57 ◼   ► - I got a Graphite 12 Pro 256.

00:59:01 ◼   ► I got AppleCare because I always do,

00:59:03 ◼   ► which somehow prevents me

00:59:05 ◼   ► from ever breaking my phone apparently.

00:59:07 ◼   ► - Did you do the lump sum AppleCare

00:59:08 ◼   ► or did you do the month-to-month?

00:59:09 ◼   ► Because I don't remember this being an option

00:59:12 ◼   ► in the past, it may have been.

00:59:13 ◼   ► - It wasn't an option in the past.

00:59:15 ◼   ► - It's been an option for a while.

00:59:16 ◼   ► I get the lump sum because I get a new phone every two years

00:59:18 ◼   ► so it's gonna end after two years,

00:59:20 ◼   ► it's not gonna work, right?

00:59:20 ◼   ► So it's not like I need to have it to continue to go on.

00:59:24 ◼   ► I did not get a case because I want the leather one

00:59:27 ◼   ► provided the leather one has a cutout on the bottom

00:59:30 ◼   ► like the clear one.

00:59:31 ◼   ► If it turns out the leather one doesn't have a cutout

00:59:33 ◼   ► on the bottom like the clear case,

00:59:34 ◼   ► I don't know what the heck I'm gonna do.

00:59:36 ◼   ► I mean, I might start looking at third-party cases,

00:59:39 ◼   ► I might try the clear one,

00:59:40 ◼   ► although reportedly the buttons on the clear one are terrible

00:59:42 ◼   ► and honestly I don't like the look of it,

00:59:43 ◼   ► but I am very much anti-lip on the bottom.

00:59:47 ◼   ► So I'm not gonna have to try to use this with AppleCare

00:59:50 ◼   ► and without a case until the leather ones are available

00:59:54 ◼   ► so I can make this determination.

00:59:56 ◼   ► - Fair enough.

00:59:57 ◼   ► Did you get any chargers, MagSafe chargers

00:59:59 ◼   ► or anything like that?

01:00:00 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I got the MagSafe puck,

01:00:02 ◼   ► that's actually already arrived.

01:00:03 ◼   ► So that's upstairs now, I got the MagSafe puck.

01:00:05 ◼   ► And the other thing that I was fretting about on Twitter

01:00:08 ◼   ► before the day of ordering was the options they give you

01:00:12 ◼   ► in the ordering process are more confusing to me

01:00:16 ◼   ► than I remember them being in the past.

01:00:17 ◼   ► In the past, I would order my new phone on my existing phone

01:00:21 ◼   ► and during the order process it would say,

01:00:23 ◼   ► "Hey, I noticed you're ordering on an iPhone,"

01:00:25 ◼   ► 'cause I'd be using like the Apple Store app.

01:00:27 ◼   ► "Do you want to buy a new phone to replace the phone

01:00:29 ◼   ► "that you're buying it on now?"

01:00:30 ◼   ► I'd say, "Yes, that's in fact exactly what I wanna do."

01:00:33 ◼   ► And then I would just go through.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Now that option wasn't presented to me.

01:00:36 ◼   ► Instead, I got two options,

01:00:37 ◼   ► neither of which made any sense to me

01:00:39 ◼   ► because I don't understand the weird world of phones.

01:00:42 ◼   ► So I asked on Twitter,

01:00:43 ◼   ► "Hey, which of these two options should I choose?"

01:00:45 ◼   ► And pretty much half the people said the first option,

01:00:48 ◼   ► and the other half of the people said the second option.

01:00:49 ◼   ► Everyone was very sure that they were correct.

01:00:51 ◼   ► - Helpful.

01:00:52 ◼   ► - That is absolutely, I saw a lot of this go by

01:00:54 ◼   ► because I chimed in with the actually correct answer.

01:00:57 ◼   ► But yes, everyone was utterly convinced

01:01:00 ◼   ► that they were correct either way.

01:01:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the thing is they had the same reasons.

01:01:04 ◼   ► They're like, "You should pick the first choice,

01:01:05 ◼   ► "because if you pick the first choice,

01:01:06 ◼   ► "you don't have to pay Verizon an activation fee."

01:01:09 ◼   ► And people would say, "You should pick the second choice,

01:01:11 ◼   ► "because if you pick the second choice,

01:01:12 ◼   ► "you don't have to pay Verizon an activation fee."

01:01:14 ◼   ► And some people said, "No matter what choice you pick,

01:01:16 ◼   ► "you'll have to pay an activation fee."

01:01:18 ◼   ► And it was just all over the map.

01:01:20 ◼   ► Like every possible permutation,

01:01:21 ◼   ► so I was like, "Okay, well apparently nobody knows."

01:01:23 ◼   ► Because people had stories about what they did.

01:01:26 ◼   ► I did this with this carrier and this time and this phone,

01:01:29 ◼   ► and this is what happened to me.

01:01:30 ◼   ► But always like two or three variables would be different.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Well, that wasn't this year, it was last year.

01:01:34 ◼   ► Well, you're on T-Mobile and I'm on Verizon.

01:01:35 ◼   ► Well, you live in a different country.

01:01:37 ◼   ► And so I could just, you know, it doesn't,

01:01:38 ◼   ► so there was, I thought it would be,

01:01:40 ◼   ► I thought it was clear cut and I just didn't know,

01:01:42 ◼   ► but apparently it's very confusing.

01:01:43 ◼   ► So anyway, the upshot is that I'm pretty sure

01:01:47 ◼   ► I could have picked either option, it would have been fine.

01:01:49 ◼   ► I think no matter what I did,

01:01:50 ◼   ► I would end up with an unlocked phone.

01:01:52 ◼   ► I think I could have bought a phone without a SIM

01:01:54 ◼   ► and taken my SIM out of my existing 10S and put it in there.

01:01:57 ◼   ► But although I wasn't sure which option

01:01:58 ◼   ► would let me do that, and I think I can order one

01:02:01 ◼   ► with a new SIM and just have it transfer service to that.

01:02:05 ◼   ► The final analysis, in the mad rush to try to get the phone

01:02:09 ◼   ► on the morning of, I don't even remember which one I picked.

01:02:12 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure I picked the top one,

01:02:14 ◼   ► which I think means they're going to send me a phone

01:02:17 ◼   ► with a brand new SIM in it, and when I turn it on,

01:02:20 ◼   ► I'll activate it, but it'll be a surprise.

01:02:23 ◼   ► - Wonderful.

01:02:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:02:26 ◼   ► Marco, you have not ordered anything, is that correct?

01:02:28 ◼   ► Or well, you might have for Tiff, what did she do?

01:02:31 ◼   ► - Well, I admit I was tempted.

01:02:34 ◼   ► And when the time came, I was awake,

01:02:37 ◼   ► I was already up working, and I had just gotten back

01:02:40 ◼   ► from school drop off, and I thought, you know what,

01:02:42 ◼   ► let me check the app, and I opened up the app,

01:02:44 ◼   ► and there it is, and I could order,

01:02:46 ◼   ► I still had day one delivery for whatever combo I would get

01:02:49 ◼   ► for the regular Pro, and I was very tempted.

01:02:54 ◼   ► But I let it go by, I didn't, because as much as I think

01:03:02 ◼   ► I'm gonna miss that telephoto lens,

01:03:05 ◼   ► when I look at the iPhone 12 Pro,

01:03:08 ◼   ► compared to the iPhone 11 Pro, it doesn't excite me.

01:03:10 ◼   ► It's not, I don't think 5G is gonna be a meaningful deal

01:03:15 ◼   ► for me during this year, I don't even think it covers

01:03:18 ◼   ► where I am right now, I'm pretty sure there's no AT&T

01:03:21 ◼   ► coverage where I am for 5G, and I'm not gonna switch

01:03:24 ◼   ► to Verizon for lots of other good reasons,

01:03:27 ◼   ► basically it doesn't cover a lot of places I need to be.

01:03:30 ◼   ► So, like my house. (laughs)

01:03:33 ◼   ► - Have you looked at the 5G map, because a lot of--

01:03:38 ◼   ► - Oh no no, I'm not talking about Verizon's 5G versus LTE,

01:03:41 ◼   ► I'm saying Verizon period does not cover my house.

01:03:45 ◼   ► - Sure, no I'm sorry, I'm back on AT&T,

01:03:46 ◼   ► because there is a whole lot of 5G everywhere

01:03:49 ◼   ► that I think you would possibly be on a regular basis.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Seriously. - Oh, I'll check,

01:03:53 ◼   ► maybe, I could have read the map wrong, anyway,

01:03:55 ◼   ► I'm not super excited about 5G yet.

01:03:58 ◼   ► - I mean, you're getting 5G no matter what phone

01:04:00 ◼   ► you get, so why are we talking about this?

01:04:01 ◼   ► - That's a good point.

01:04:02 ◼   ► - As an upgrade to the 11, if I look at my 11 Pro today,

01:04:06 ◼   ► yes I know for everybody out there, I know it's ridiculous

01:04:08 ◼   ► to upgrade every year, but you know, this is what we do.

01:04:11 ◼   ► So, compared to the 11 Pro, I don't see a major reason

01:04:15 ◼   ► to upgrade if what I'm going to be getting

01:04:18 ◼   ► is mostly the same as what I have.

01:04:20 ◼   ► And when you look at 11 Pro to 12 Pro,

01:04:23 ◼   ► if you don't care super strongly about 5G,

01:04:27 ◼   ► well what else is there, the One X camera

01:04:30 ◼   ► got a little bit better, the A14 is a little bit faster,

01:04:33 ◼   ► and you got straight sides.

01:04:34 ◼   ► - It's a lot faster, and you get HDR video,

01:04:36 ◼   ► but you also get the A14 with the Mini,

01:04:39 ◼   ► and you also get HDR video with the Mini,

01:04:41 ◼   ► just not as good.

01:04:41 ◼   ► - Right, and you also get the better

01:04:43 ◼   ► One X camera with the Mini.

01:04:45 ◼   ► In order to have a really big upgrade

01:04:48 ◼   ► from the 11 Pro to the 12 Pro, I think you have to go max.

01:04:53 ◼   ► Like, I think that's, if you want it to feel

01:04:56 ◼   ► like a big year on year thing, I mean,

01:04:58 ◼   ► the sensible thing to do is don't upgrade

01:05:00 ◼   ► if you have an 11 anything, because it's not better enough.

01:05:03 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:05:04 ◼   ► But, if you're gonna be an idiot and upgrade every year,

01:05:07 ◼   ► and pick a new phone 'cause you're fortunate enough

01:05:09 ◼   ► to be able to do that, I don't get excited

01:05:13 ◼   ► by going from the 11 Pro to the 12 Pro.

01:05:16 ◼   ► I think if you're a max person, like what Tiff is,

01:05:19 ◼   ► Tiff's a max person, she's getting a massive camera upgrade

01:05:22 ◼   ► by going to the 12 Pro max.

01:05:25 ◼   ► So, that's gonna be great, and that makes total sense,

01:05:28 ◼   ► and that's a good reason to be excited.

01:05:30 ◼   ► As this shopping day blew by, I realized I don't want

01:05:36 ◼   ► the 12 Pro, I don't think.

01:05:38 ◼   ► I mean, somebody's gonna play this back to me in a month

01:05:42 ◼   ► when I've gotten the Mini, hated it, returned it,

01:05:45 ◼   ► and gotten the Pro instead, but as we stand right now,

01:05:48 ◼   ► I'm not super excited, but I also, I saw all the reviews

01:05:50 ◼   ► that came out over the last couple days,

01:05:52 ◼   ► and I really don't like the massive fingerprint magnetness

01:05:56 ◼   ► of the steel polished edges on the Pro.

01:06:00 ◼   ► I really don't like that they kept the very slippery

01:06:03 ◼   ► matte finish glass back on the Pro.

01:06:06 ◼   ► So, what they've made, and I'm happy to see

01:06:09 ◼   ► that all the reviews basically say that if you've been using

01:06:12 ◼   ► an 11 Pro or a 10S or a 10, it is basically that same size,

01:06:16 ◼   ► even though it is officially very slightly larger,

01:06:19 ◼   ► it feels the same.

01:06:20 ◼   ► That's good, I'm happy to hear that,

01:06:23 ◼   ► but I'm not that happy with this size.

01:06:26 ◼   ► It's fine, I deal with it, but it's a little bit bigger

01:06:30 ◼   ► and a little bit heavier than I want.

01:06:31 ◼   ► And so, that's why, when I look at this lineup,

01:06:34 ◼   ► the Mini excites me, because this is not a massive year

01:06:38 ◼   ► for huge, gotta have it hardware upgrades,

01:06:42 ◼   ► unless you're a max person, then you get that awesome camera

01:06:45 ◼   ► but otherwise, it's not a massive year for that.

01:06:47 ◼   ► Again, 5G notwithstanding, 'cause I just don't care

01:06:50 ◼   ► about the maximum 5G yet.

01:06:51 ◼   ► And so, if it's not gonna be a massive year for that,

01:06:54 ◼   ► I feel like I have to make a bigger change

01:06:56 ◼   ► if I want this to be worth doing at all.

01:06:59 ◼   ► And I have thought about just skipping this year

01:07:01 ◼   ► for the first time ever, 'cause, you know, whatever,

01:07:03 ◼   ► but there is one massive change that I really want,

01:07:08 ◼   ► and it's the form factor, I really want that smaller phone.

01:07:11 ◼   ► And I think even though I'll be giving up the 2X camera,

01:07:15 ◼   ► and I won't be getting the full Dolby Vision 60 frames

01:07:18 ◼   ► a second, I won't be getting the new ProRAW format,

01:07:21 ◼   ► I don't think I would use either of those things.

01:07:24 ◼   ► And I think, as I mentioned earlier,

01:07:25 ◼   ► I think the 2X camera is complicated to the point

01:07:28 ◼   ► where I don't think I'll be missing it as much

01:07:30 ◼   ► as I might think, but again, we will see.

01:07:34 ◼   ► But I'm super excited about holding that little phone.

01:07:39 ◼   ► I have a feeling it's gonna feel awesome.

01:07:40 ◼   ► Like, I have a feeling going back to that size

01:07:43 ◼   ► and having such a tiny, light phone that's easy

01:07:46 ◼   ► to maneuver in your hand and everything,

01:07:48 ◼   ► and going without a case, 'cause I'll get the low-end glass,

01:07:52 ◼   ► which will be more grippy.

01:07:54 ◼   ► I'll have the low-end aluminum sides,

01:07:56 ◼   ► which won't show fingerprints.

01:07:58 ◼   ► I will be able to go without a case,

01:08:00 ◼   ► 'cause of its size and grippiness,

01:08:02 ◼   ► which means the buttons will feel better,

01:08:04 ◼   ► it'll feel better in my hand, it'll look nicer.

01:08:07 ◼   ► So I think it'll be a substantial upgrade

01:08:10 ◼   ► to go to the Mini in terms of just handling and feel.

01:08:15 ◼   ► I think it'll feel great.

01:08:17 ◼   ► - You can get a cool color, too.

01:08:18 ◼   ► - Well, asterisk.

01:08:20 ◼   ► - Hmm, why?

01:08:21 ◼   ► - You can get a cool color if you like blue

01:08:23 ◼   ► or a potashio green, but I'm a red person mostly in colors,

01:08:28 ◼   ► and the red is not a good red.

01:08:32 ◼   ► Well, it's not a good red for me, it's not what I want.

01:08:34 ◼   ► It's definitely like, yeah, it's like a coral

01:08:36 ◼   ► or salmon kind of color, it's pretty far from--

01:08:38 ◼   ► - You don't like the blue?

01:08:39 ◼   ► What's wrong with the blue?

01:08:40 ◼   ► Let me look at the blue.

01:08:41 ◼   ► - It's a little flat for me, honestly,

01:08:43 ◼   ► but I'm not much of a blue person.

01:08:46 ◼   ► Blue is not one of my favorite colors.

01:08:49 ◼   ► It's fine, I get some things that are blue,

01:08:50 ◼   ► but I don't love it enough to make it my phone for a year,

01:08:54 ◼   ► whereas the red, I would if it was a more deep red,

01:08:59 ◼   ► but unfortunately it's not, so what I think,

01:09:02 ◼   ► this is the one thing I'm not excited about is the color.

01:09:04 ◼   ► I think I'm gonna go either white or black.

01:09:07 ◼   ► I'm leaning towards white, and I'm not gonna get a chance

01:09:10 ◼   ► to see them in person, I don't think, anytime soon.

01:09:13 ◼   ► - Oh, the black, the black looks really black, too.

01:09:15 ◼   ► Have you seen a black one in a review yet?

01:09:17 ◼   ► Or I guess no one has, because the minis aren't out yet,

01:09:19 ◼   ► but have you seen a 12 in black?

01:09:22 ◼   ► - I have, I've tried to find every video I can

01:09:25 ◼   ► where people actually have them and are unboxing them

01:09:28 ◼   ► and showing them off.

01:09:29 ◼   ► This is not very many videos yet.

01:09:31 ◼   ► And I don't think I've seen a black one yet.

01:09:34 ◼   ► That's actually, that's in more like the YouTube reviewers

01:09:36 ◼   ► or anything like that.

01:09:37 ◼   ► But regardless, I'm leaning towards white,

01:09:40 ◼   ► but again, regardless, I haven't ordered,

01:09:43 ◼   ► to answer your question in the longest possible way, Casey,

01:09:46 ◼   ► I haven't ordered anything yet.

01:09:47 ◼   ► - Seriously, this is a long way to say I ordered nothing.

01:09:48 ◼   ► Although you did, you ordered a phone for Tiff.

01:09:50 ◼   ► - No, I didn't order a phone for Tiff.

01:09:51 ◼   ► The Max and the Mini are the same day.

01:09:53 ◼   ► - Oh, that's right, that she has to wait, too, yeah.

01:09:55 ◼   ► Does she know what color she's getting to?

01:09:57 ◼   ► - Blue, yeah, as soon as the blue is shown on screen

01:10:01 ◼   ► at the event, she's like, all right, get me that.

01:10:03 ◼   ► All right, biggest one of that, that's it, done.

01:10:05 ◼   ► - You know, I'd give us, you and me, Marco,

01:10:10 ◼   ► if you were to get a blue Mini, which I know you're not,

01:10:13 ◼   ► but if you were to get a blue Mini,

01:10:14 ◼   ► I'd say there's one chance in three

01:10:16 ◼   ► that you and I will swap phones at some point this year.

01:10:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:10:20 ◼   ► I'm laughing, but I'm not joking.

01:10:22 ◼   ► 'Cause I think I said this last week,

01:10:25 ◼   ► you know, the meme with the guy holding the girlfriend's hand

01:10:27 ◼   ► and looking back at the other girl,

01:10:29 ◼   ► I am holding the hand of the forthcoming iPhone 12 Pro,

01:10:33 ◼   ► but looking back at that Mini, thinking, hmm,

01:10:36 ◼   ► is that the phone I really want?

01:10:38 ◼   ► - Again, I think if you're the kind of idiot like us

01:10:41 ◼   ► who upgrades every year,

01:10:42 ◼   ► I think it's hard to get excited about

01:10:44 ◼   ► this one particular thing if you're in the middle size.

01:10:48 ◼   ► If you're at the small, that's awesome.

01:10:50 ◼   ► It's a brand new size, it's probably gonna feel great.

01:10:53 ◼   ► It's gonna have a few compromises,

01:10:54 ◼   ► maybe it's gonna take a little while

01:10:56 ◼   ► to get used to the typing, I'm sure,

01:10:57 ◼   ► but it's gonna feel great.

01:10:59 ◼   ► If you're at the big end,

01:11:00 ◼   ► you get that amazing new camera upgrade.

01:11:02 ◼   ► If you're in the middle, it's not a massive sell

01:11:06 ◼   ► as a year-over-year upgrade.

01:11:08 ◼   ► Again, I know it's ridiculous

01:11:10 ◼   ► to have year-over-year upgrade discussions,

01:11:11 ◼   ► but look, this is our show, this is what we talk about.

01:11:13 ◼   ► So if we're gonna be these kind of idiots,

01:11:16 ◼   ► I feel like there's gonna be a lot of us tech podcasters

01:11:19 ◼   ► and adjacent fans and enthusiasts

01:11:22 ◼   ► who end up going through more than one size this year

01:11:26 ◼   ► because you have this weird trade-off,

01:11:28 ◼   ► and the middle size is a pretty substantial compromise,

01:11:33 ◼   ► whereas the top size and the bottom size

01:11:38 ◼   ► are both much more exciting for different reasons.

01:11:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's fair.

01:11:42 ◼   ► I still stand by that I think this lineup of phones,

01:11:46 ◼   ► with an asterisk here and a dagger there,

01:11:49 ◼   ► I do think this is one of the most,

01:11:50 ◼   ► if not the most compelling range of iPhones

01:11:52 ◼   ► that Apple has ever offered.

01:11:54 ◼   ► But yeah, if you're on the 11 Pro like I am today,

01:11:59 ◼   ► it is of questionable importance

01:12:03 ◼   ► whether or not you need to upgrade, like you were saying.

01:12:07 ◼   ► But yeah, so I bought, Aaron and I each,

01:12:09 ◼   ► a 12 Pro, both 256 gigs,

01:12:14 ◼   ► She White, Me Blue, which I'm very excited about.

01:12:17 ◼   ► Blue is my favorite color.

01:12:19 ◼   ► I'm super excited about this blue.

01:12:20 ◼   ► It's funny, when I'd seen the photographs

01:12:24 ◼   ► of the Mini Blue, which I think they just call blue,

01:12:27 ◼   ► and the Pacific Blue of the Pro,

01:12:29 ◼   ► I thought I actually preferred the Mini's shade of blue,

01:12:34 ◼   ► but now having seen some more video and pictures

01:12:38 ◼   ► and whatnot of the Pro,

01:12:39 ◼   ► I feel like I actually kind of prefer

01:12:41 ◼   ► the more muted blue of the Pacific Blue, the Pro Blue.

01:12:45 ◼   ► But we'll see what happens.

01:12:47 ◼   ► At some point, I'm sure I will see a Mini

01:12:49 ◼   ► and I might change my mind.

01:12:51 ◼   ► But nevertheless, we each ordered iPhone 12s.

01:12:56 ◼   ► I got two years worth of AppleCare

01:12:58 ◼   ► because I figure I'm probably gonna run this caselist

01:13:01 ◼   ► and we saw how that went last time,

01:13:02 ◼   ► so it's probably wise for me to get AppleCare.

01:13:05 ◼   ► Erin, what I did for her,

01:13:08 ◼   ► which was the first time she's ever had AppleCares,

01:13:11 ◼   ► I did month to month for her

01:13:12 ◼   ► because we haven't yet concluded what case she would like.

01:13:17 ◼   ► And in the past, she's run the very light pink

01:13:21 ◼   ► silicon, silicon, silicon, I always get it wrong, I'm sorry,

01:13:24 ◼   ► the PlastiKey case.

01:13:25 ◼   ► And this year, they don't really have a good pink option.

01:13:29 ◼   ► And either way, those cases tend to fall apart on her

01:13:32 ◼   ► after like six to eight months anyway.

01:13:36 ◼   ► So my thought process was, well, I'll just do like a couple,

01:13:40 ◼   ► like a month or maybe two months of AppleCare Plus for her.

01:13:42 ◼   ► So God forbid she pulls a casey

01:13:44 ◼   ► and drops the thing immediately, then we'll be all right.

01:13:47 ◼   ► And then once she gets herself a case that she likes,

01:13:49 ◼   ► then I'll just cancel the AppleCare on hers

01:13:51 ◼   ► and we won't have to worry about it anymore.

01:13:54 ◼   ► But all in all, the buying process was pretty decent.

01:13:58 ◼   ► It's so much nicer doing it at eight in the morning

01:14:02 ◼   ► rather than, what was it, three in the morning in the past,

01:14:04 ◼   ► is that right? - Yeah.

01:14:06 ◼   ► - Which was just awful.

01:14:08 ◼   ► And it is funny to me hearing the people in the left coast

01:14:11 ◼   ► whining about their five in the morning

01:14:13 ◼   ► because I would argue that getting up at five in the morning

01:14:16 ◼   ► to order a phone, that's just inconvenient.

01:14:19 ◼   ► Getting up at three in the morning

01:14:20 ◼   ► is like destroying your sleep for the night.

01:14:23 ◼   ► And it was so frustrating, we did it for years.

01:14:26 ◼   ► But yeah, I used the Apple Store app

01:14:29 ◼   ► and it worked reasonably well.

01:14:31 ◼   ► Californians, or at least Apple never seems to be punctual,

01:14:35 ◼   ► so it wasn't until like 805 or something like that

01:14:38 ◼   ► that it finally went and allowed me to buy the phones.

01:14:41 ◼   ► But it was fairly straightforward.

01:14:43 ◼   ► And theoretically, they're coming this Friday.

01:14:47 ◼   ► Aaron's is still in China,

01:14:49 ◼   ► mine is somewhere between Anchorage and my house.

01:14:52 ◼   ► It left Anchorage like a day or two ago

01:14:54 ◼   ► and yet still hasn't moved.

01:14:56 ◼   ► I think it's because they like,

01:14:57 ◼   ► I forget where customs happens in this process.

01:14:59 ◼   ► Every year I remind myself as I'm watching

01:15:02 ◼   ► these tracking numbers fly by,

01:15:03 ◼   ► "Oh yeah, that's the time when they like

01:15:06 ◼   ► "finally let it through customs and it actually moves."

01:15:08 ◼   ► And I should write notes on this so I can remember.

01:15:10 ◼   ► But I haven't actually gotten,

01:15:13 ◼   ► in case you're listening to this and you're like,

01:15:14 ◼   ► "Wait, wait, wait, how does he have a tracking number?"

01:15:16 ◼   ► I haven't gotten the official tracking number from Apple,

01:15:18 ◼   ► but the trick that we've talked about

01:15:19 ◼   ► that works for many years,

01:15:20 ◼   ► and I put a blog post up about it

01:15:22 ◼   ► that we'll link to in the show notes,

01:15:24 ◼   ► is if you go to UPS, if you're in America

01:15:26 ◼   ► and if you go to UPS and you do a track by reference

01:15:31 ◼   ► and you use either the first like several characters

01:15:34 ◼   ► of your order number, I forget how many,

01:15:35 ◼   ► but more importantly if you use your phone number,

01:15:37 ◼   ► you know, no hyphens, no parentheses, et cetera,

01:15:40 ◼   ► then almost always that'll come up

01:15:42 ◼   ► with actual tracking numbers for your phones,

01:15:45 ◼   ► easily days before Apple has issued a tracking number.

01:15:48 ◼   ► And additionally, if you're a UPS My Choice person,

01:15:51 ◼   ► it showed up on my calendar for today, actually.

01:15:54 ◼   ► It showed up on my calendar, like delivery calendar,

01:15:56 ◼   ► like two or three days ago.

01:15:57 ◼   ► Obviously it was not delivered today,

01:15:59 ◼   ► which is of no great surprise,

01:16:00 ◼   ► but that would've been a neat treat if it had worked out.

01:16:03 ◼   ► But I plan as John to probably potentially get a leather case

01:16:08 ◼   ► if I get one at all.

01:16:09 ◼   ► I've always really liked the Apple leather cases,

01:16:12 ◼   ► but given that I have AppleCare on it,

01:16:13 ◼   ► I'll probably just roll caseless again

01:16:15 ◼   ► and we'll see what happens.

01:16:17 ◼   ► But like I said, Marco, it would not surprise me,

01:16:20 ◼   ► I really mean this, if you say to me at some point

01:16:22 ◼   ► or I say to you at some point,

01:16:24 ◼   ► "So Marco, how are you liking that Mini?

01:16:29 ◼   ► "What are you thinking about maybe doing

01:16:30 ◼   ► "a little switcheroo for a little while?"

01:16:32 ◼   ► - Marco would never wait to get your phone,

01:16:34 ◼   ► he would just order himself a 12 Pro.

01:16:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's true.

01:16:37 ◼   ► Also, I think I'm thinking about doing AppleCare myself

01:16:41 ◼   ► because of that monthly option now.

01:16:44 ◼   ► Because if I keep it for 12 months,

01:16:47 ◼   ► on the Mini it's eight bucks a month, so it's $96.

01:16:50 ◼   ► - Oh, that's actually not bad at all.

01:16:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the leather case is gonna be like 60 or 50,

01:16:54 ◼   ► right, that's just what it costs.

01:16:55 ◼   ► So I figure maybe this will just be my case for the year.

01:17:00 ◼   ► 'Cause I do plan to go caseless with the Mini.

01:17:04 ◼   ► I would like a small amount of protection maybe.

01:17:07 ◼   ► And for 100 bucks for the year to literally

01:17:12 ◼   ► then not have to worry about it at all,

01:17:14 ◼   ► might be worth it, I don't know.

01:17:17 ◼   ► So I might try that this year

01:17:19 ◼   ► 'cause the monthly option really changes things.

01:17:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I feel the same way in a lot of ways.

01:17:23 ◼   ► - Oh, interesting, M2_Mike in the chat points out,

01:17:27 ◼   ► Apple has never made a leather case for the non-Pro phones.

01:17:32 ◼   ► Is that true?

01:17:33 ◼   ► I think that is true. - I wouldn't know that.

01:17:33 ◼   ► - Get back into coach class, pleb.

01:17:35 ◼   ► - The kids say pleb now.

01:17:39 ◼   ► Are you familiar with this?

01:17:40 ◼   ► I know the word. - Are you being serious?

01:17:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, but now the little kids

01:17:43 ◼   ► who hear these words on YouTube, they say pleb.

01:17:46 ◼   ► - Oh my goodness, I also say sus, I'm just ignoring them.

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01:19:44 ◼   ► All right, so 90 minutes into the show,

01:19:46 ◼   ► should we leave follow up?

01:19:49 ◼   ► As if we had any structure this week.

01:19:51 ◼   ► Don't try to blame follow up on this show.

01:19:54 ◼   ► Should we just go into Ask ATP?

01:19:55 ◼   ► I'm kind of not kidding.

01:19:56 ◼   ► Let's do it.

01:19:57 ◼   ► All right, let's start with some Ask ATP

01:19:59 ◼   ► now that follow up's done.

01:20:02 ◼   ► Oh my god.

01:20:03 ◼   ► Have any of us tried watchOS sleep tracking?

01:20:05 ◼   ► Asks Eduardo Berner.

01:20:07 ◼   ► I have not.

01:20:08 ◼   ► I have used-- oh, shoot, I can't remember the name of the app.

01:20:11 ◼   ► But I used an iPhone app years ago where basically you

01:20:13 ◼   ► would plug your phone-- this is pre-Chi--

01:20:15 ◼   ► you would plug your phone into your lightning cable

01:20:17 ◼   ► and stick it under your sheet, under your fitted sheet

01:20:19 ◼   ► if you can or under your pillow or whatever.

01:20:22 ◼   ► And I actually liked it, if I remember