399: Off the Pouch Lifestyle
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I've had a terrible week for technology.
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- Oh, tell me more.
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- A few episodes ago, I described my choice
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to not get another Synology for the beach,
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but instead, just get a couple of large SSDs
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in an external USB enclosure,
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and just use them as local disks,
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and host Time Machine for that and everything.
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- I gotta interrupt you, are you in a mental place
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where I'm allowed to laugh at you for your misfortune,
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or are you in need of me to be sympathetic
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and understanding?
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- I have almost ordered a Synology
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to fix the problem that I'm having.
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- Well, you're really trying me.
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- I'm not quite there yet.
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- You're really trying me here.
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Okay, I'm gonna try to be good.
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- To answer your question, you are totally allowed
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to gloat about how right now, my solution
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is not working well.
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- All right, so all kidding aside, what's going on?
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- So, I got these big SSDs in.
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I had some weirdness where sometimes
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they would unmount themselves,
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or sometimes, after the first Time Machine backup,
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it took a while, and after the first Time Machine backup,
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I started getting errors that they couldn't complete
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another backup, and the errors would report
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some kind of weird file system problem,
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and so I would run the disk repair healing thing,
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and it would fail.
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Like, okay, well that's good.
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So I tried blowing away the partition,
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start over, erase the whole disk, start over,
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start Time Machine again, and it couldn't even complete
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a whole backup.
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It would just stall for a while and eventually fail.
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Or there's this weird step of Time Machine
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where after you do, it seems like after you do
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a first Time Machine backup, it then tries to encrypt
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the whole disk for some reason.
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This is all still on Catalina, by the way.
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It wouldn't get through that process.
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It would just stall, and so I eventually concluded,
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okay, it's very possible that these SSDs are already bad,
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or at least one of them is.
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Which, I know there are these Micron 7.68 terabyte SSDs.
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They're a very low price for that capacity,
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but it's still not a low price, in absolute terms.
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So this is a decent amount of money at stake,
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and for SSDs that are just outside of the Amazon
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return window, so I'd have to deal with Micron directly,
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which I don't wanna have to do that.
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- What kind of case are they in, though?
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That's the thing that I would suspect,
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'cause you have the two separate sticks,
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but they're being joined by a hardware RAID 0 thing?
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- It joined in this kind of Cable Matters box
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that Cable Matters doesn't appear to make,
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'cause a few other sellers on Amazon sell
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the exact same box, and they're their brand names
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for the same price.
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And it has a hardware RAID thing on it,
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but I have the RAID disabled, so they just appear
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as two separate disks.
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But I also thought, maybe it's the enclosure.
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That's certainly where my mind went first.
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- Wait, but you're using them as two separate disks,
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but which one of the two are you targeting
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with Time Machine?
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- Only one of them.
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The other one was my big archive drive.
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But fortunately, I haven't put anything on it yet.
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- Did you try the other one with Time Machine?
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- I probably should have attempted that.
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No is the answer, I didn't.
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- Anyway, what did Micron say?
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- Well, I didn't go to them yet,
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'cause first I figured, well, let me order
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a couple of cheap enclosures that are just single disk,
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regular enclosures, just so I can rule out,
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is the enclosure being buggy?
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As I'm working on that, as I have no Time Machine,
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Tiff's laptop dies.
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- Oh, I heard about that.
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That was the overheating thing, right?
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- I don't know if it was overheating.
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However, as part of the, so the symptom is,
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just would not power on, no matter what you did.
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No matter what kind of crazy key commands,
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what kind of crazy SMC resets and PM whatever resets
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and all the, like, reset the T to,
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every possible thing that we could think of to do,
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none of it would make this computer turn on.
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Followed every single possible thing.
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And after a while of doing some of these things,
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Tiff's like, oh my god, I smell burning plastic.
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- And sure enough, out of the right side vent,
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it was the distinct smell of burnt electronics.
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You know, like, I don't know if it's like a burnt capacitor
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or what, but it's like, it's the smell
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of a dead power supply.
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- Don't smell that.
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- Yeah, oh yeah, we didn't take a big long sniff.
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Yeah, it's the distinctive smell of a dead power supply
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or something, coming from inside the laptop.
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We're like, oh, okay.
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- I would have worried that it was a battery fire situation.
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- We did, and in fact, we brought it outside,
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holding it over a pit of sand while I continued
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to try to get it to power on,
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just in case it would catch additional fire.
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- Wait, is that a butterfly keyboard?
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- It sure is.
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- Because sand is its mortal enemy.
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- Yes, I thought of that as well.
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- What a fitting end.
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- Of course it's the butterfly keyboard.
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This freaking keyboard.
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So anyway, so Tiff's laptop is totally dead.
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This laptop is only like 15 months old.
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It's the 2019 15 inch, the very last butterfly keyboard,
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- It just couldn't bear to go on.
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- Yeah, exactly.
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So that, and guess what?
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We bought it last year, and my standard policy
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is I don't buy AppleCare on most things.
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This is the very first time it's ever really bitten me hard.
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- Well, did it bite you?
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'Cause now you get to get one with a good keyboard.
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- So we look at this and we're like, okay,
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well, this computer is a $2,300-ish a year ago computer
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that we don't want it to be worth nothing now.
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- I don't think people usually don't buy them
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on the used market once the magic smoke has escaped.
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- Yes, exactly.
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And we figured it would probably not cost $2,300
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to repair it out of warranty, and sure enough, it didn't.
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Apple repaired it for something like $750.
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It's on its way back to us now.
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We'll see if it's actually repaired.
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God, I hope so.
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- Mm-hmm, did they tell you what they thought
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was wrong with it?
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- No, it's funny, actually.
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Again, I've never actually seen an Apple paid repair process
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for a computer.
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I don't think I've ever actually done a paid repair.
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- They'll give you a parts and labor kind of breakdown
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at the end of it.
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- Anyway, so that also happened.
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Thank God for Backblaze, 'cause we didn't have
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Time Machine during this. (laughs)
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So we had no Time Machine, 'cause my Time Machine disk died.
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TIFF's laptop then died.
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And then my laptop, it worked in the sense
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that it was running the Big Sur beta, and it functioned.
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But now my laptop has to then take over
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and be two people's laptop.
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And we had been using TIFFs for a few things
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because none of my audio apps work yet on Big Sur.
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And so we had to keep a Catalina laptop
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operating in the house, so we still needed that.
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So it's like, okay, well we still kinda need
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a Catalina laptop.
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I'm not gonna go buy a new one now,
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like right before the ARM transition,
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since it's a terrible time. (laughs)
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So I'm not gonna buy something now.
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There is no way I can rationalize it.
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Like, oh, well if I buy some new thing I want,
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then we can sell TIFFs when it gets back.
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Like, there's no way to rationalize that right now.
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This is a terrible time.
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So I'm like, all right, well let me,
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I think the most pragmatic thing to do,
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I was having a lot of problems with my laptop's
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installation of Mac OS anyway.
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And this is not necessarily Big Sur's fault.
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I was having issues under Catalina.
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Severe performance problems.
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To the point where you kinda can't tell at first,
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like is this like a hardware problem?
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It's things like every keystroke I would type in mail
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would bog down the system.
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Or like changing the selection between things
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in mail and other apps.
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It was just slow.
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It would take a while to load every new thing it was doing.
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And it was just so much better, it was just slow.
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And I would see, sometimes I would see problems
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like what people have reported with,
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I think it's accounts D.
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This is a common issue coming up recently for a lot of people
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where like some background demon in Catalina
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would just use, and Big Sur,
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would just use massive amounts of CPU power
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for no apparent reason.
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Whether it's like FS events D, or accounts D,
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or other various things.
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Certainly the, what's the privacy one?
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TCC, something like that?
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Whatever the privacy one is, that one too.
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There were so many weird problems with installations.
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I'm like, you know what, I've wanted for a while
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to do a clean install on this laptop.
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Now that we suddenly are in need of a laptop
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that is not running this beta OS,
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why don't I just revert it and do a clean install?
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So I tackled that during this time,
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because we really needed a laptop that was usable
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so that Tiff could use it while hers was out for repair,
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and that I could have my audio needs satisfied better
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and get rid of this massive performance problem.
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So going through all that now,
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reinstalling all that stuff, and then,
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oh, by the way, during this process,
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the entire family got a virus.
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Not the virus, but a virus.
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A real life one, a like, you know,
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kind of medium grade cold.
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Not only was this not a good time
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to lose time machine,
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and not only was this not a good time
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to need possibly another laptop,
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this was especially not a good time to get a cold.
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- Oh my word. - This is not
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at all a time that you want to have a cold.
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So in the middle of all this, we also have to,
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like, first of all, freak out about whether this is a virus
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or the virus, and then, to get our kid
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to be able to go back to school,
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we had to all get COVID tests.
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So that was fun too. (laughs)
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So it's been, negative, by the way,
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but it's, whew, it's been a week.
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- I have to congratulate you.
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I don't know if that's what I'm looking for,
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but I admire that you didn't somehow,
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like Marco of just a year or two ago,
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turn this, or end this story with,
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and then I bought a Mac Pro.
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Because some way, somehow, Marco of a year or two ago
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would have ended this story with,
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and then I bought a Mac Pro.
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Would it have made sense?
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No, but that was the Marco way.
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And you didn't do that this time, so I'm very proud of you.
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- I mean, I almost bought, like,
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seven new laptops in the process.
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- Yeah, I've got the pressure for,
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we'll talk about this later when we talk about the Apple app,
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but the pressure for a new laptop in this house is building,
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and I keep fending them off, I'm like, just, no,
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you said it would be the next Apple event.
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It's like, no, maybe not this one,
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but just, we're not buying another Intel laptop.
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- Yeah, exactly, yeah, like,
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if you really, really, really, really have to find,
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and I was telling Titchfield, I'm like,
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this is not a great time to need a replacement big laptop,
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because the big ones might not be the first ones.
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Like, it's my theory, maybe we'll get to this later,
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but it's my theory that the Macs that need discrete GPUs
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to be competitive in their category might be coming later.
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Like, I don't think we're getting the discrete GPU category
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of Macs going ARM first.
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I think it's way more likely that the things
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that go ARM first are Macs that historically
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had only integrated GPUs.
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So basically, the small laptops,
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the cheapest iMac, and the Mac Mini.
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But who knows?
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- I'm sorry, that's no fun.
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Although, I am more than a little bit amused
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that the end of the story might involve
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you buying a new Synology.
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We have some follow-up.
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We, largely me, but we, totally missed
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on the Facebook versus Apple thing from last week.
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So this was-- - Disagree.
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- Okay, listeners, all of your angry email,
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do not direct to me this time.
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John is the one who's saying that we handled it okay.
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So what we didn't have in our notes
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and what I didn't talk about,
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and what I think we should have talked about,
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was the fact that the Apple takes 30% of this purchase
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that was shown under a button on Facebook.
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That was a button where you were paying an individual
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or like a small company.
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So like, I wanna go take an online fitness course
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and so I can purchase access for $9.99
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and then Apple takes 30% of this purchase, learn more.
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Well, I had thought, reading our show notes
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and not having spent enough time reading the article,
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apparently, that Facebook was the one losing out on 30%.
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And that was not correct.
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What was actually happening was the local business
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was the one losing out on the 30%
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and Facebook was just trying to let you know,
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hey, Apple's being a little greedy here.
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They're taking 30% of this.
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We're not taking anything, they're taking 30%.
00:13:00
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►
And I grossly misunderstood that.
00:13:03
◼
►
And furthermore, after a bunch of complaining and moaning
00:13:06
◼
►
from a bunch of people about this very issue,
00:13:08
◼
►
we missed last week, because this had happened
00:13:11
◼
►
before we spoke about it,
00:13:12
◼
►
Apple decided not to take that 30% cut after all,
00:13:14
◼
►
at least for now.
00:13:16
◼
►
So we did miss some important context there
00:13:20
◼
►
and I, for one, am sorry about that.
00:13:22
◼
►
John, explain why we're not wrong, apparently.
00:13:25
◼
►
- I mean, you did complain about Facebook
00:13:28
◼
►
in a few ways that were not fair, but here's the thing.
00:13:30
◼
►
This is interesting that, remember this issue
00:13:32
◼
►
where Apple replied about the 30% thing
00:13:34
◼
►
and their reason was like, it goes against this guideline
00:13:38
◼
►
that says you can't present the customers
00:13:39
◼
►
with irrelevant information, right?
00:13:41
◼
►
I feel like the whole situation
00:13:43
◼
►
with how much money Facebook were taking
00:13:45
◼
►
is mostly irrelevant information
00:13:47
◼
►
in the context of how this item was presented.
00:13:49
◼
►
Maybe not in the context of you guys are going on
00:13:52
◼
►
and complaining about how mean Facebook was after that.
00:13:55
◼
►
But anyway, this item from last week,
00:13:58
◼
►
this was the point of the item.
00:14:00
◼
►
Apple is telling Facebook not to tell the truth
00:14:03
◼
►
about what Apple does, and that's a crappy thing
00:14:06
◼
►
for Apple to do.
00:14:07
◼
►
That was the item.
00:14:08
◼
►
It was, hey, Apple doing something crappy.
00:14:10
◼
►
Like, why shouldn't Facebook be able to tell the truth?
00:14:12
◼
►
It's kind of shady, it's kind of crappy, right?
00:14:14
◼
►
They should be able to stand
00:14:15
◼
►
behind their business arrangement, it's bad, blah, blah, blah.
00:14:18
◼
►
That was the story.
00:14:20
◼
►
You would have thought from the feedback
00:14:22
◼
►
that the story was Facebook is evil.
00:14:24
◼
►
It was, no, Apple is the bad guy in the story, unequivocally.
00:14:27
◼
►
The entire point of the thing was
00:14:29
◼
►
Apple wouldn't let a developer say that they take 30%,
00:14:32
◼
►
which was the truth at the time, right?
00:14:34
◼
►
And isn't that crappy of Apple?
00:14:36
◼
►
But the Facebook people came out of the woodworks
00:14:38
◼
►
and say, how dare you be so mean to Facebook?
00:14:40
◼
►
I'm like, and for the longest time, I'm like, wait, what?
00:14:42
◼
►
Mean to Facebook?
00:14:44
◼
►
No, we were telling you that Apple
00:14:45
◼
►
was the bad guy in this story.
00:14:46
◼
►
Then I listened back to the show and I heard
00:14:48
◼
►
that some mean things were said about Facebook later,
00:14:50
◼
►
which was unfair and we should have clarified
00:14:53
◼
►
that this was just, that they were,
00:14:58
◼
►
what Facebook was calling out Apple for was like,
00:15:01
◼
►
don't blame us, but this is Apple doing this thing,
00:15:03
◼
►
which is the point we kind of made is like,
00:15:05
◼
►
look, Facebook's trying to turn sentiment against Apple
00:15:08
◼
►
to say, look, it's not Facebook doing this mean thing.
00:15:11
◼
►
Let me tell you exactly in print right underneath the button,
00:15:14
◼
►
if you're worried that not all this money's
00:15:15
◼
►
going to this thing, it's Apple's fault,
00:15:17
◼
►
and which we agreed with, it was Apple's fault,
00:15:19
◼
►
like that was their requirement or whatever, right?
00:15:21
◼
►
And so that part of the story was also true,
00:15:23
◼
►
but it seems like all anyone heard in the story
00:15:25
◼
►
was Facebook is mean, which I don't understand at all, so.
00:15:28
◼
►
- Well, anyway, in all fairness,
00:15:30
◼
►
we were missing some critical context,
00:15:34
◼
►
but also Facebook is a horrible company.
00:15:36
◼
►
Both things can be true.
00:15:38
◼
►
- We can't have another barrage
00:15:41
◼
►
of that feedback, Marco.
00:15:42
◼
►
Stop saying mean things about Facebook.
00:15:43
◼
►
They're innocent.
00:15:44
◼
►
Yeah, no, I feel like it is irrelevant information.
00:15:46
◼
►
Like, yes, this was about a live event,
00:15:48
◼
►
and Facebook wasn't taking any money and giving it all,
00:15:50
◼
►
and aren't they nice and magnanimous,
00:15:52
◼
►
and Apple was the meanie,
00:15:53
◼
►
which lends itself to the point of the story,
00:15:55
◼
►
which was Apple was being stupid and/or mean, right?
00:15:57
◼
►
That was the point.
00:15:58
◼
►
It wasn't, you know, that, hey, Apple's taking this money
00:16:02
◼
►
and not even letting Facebook explain what's happening, so.
00:16:06
◼
►
There we go, and yeah, Apple did back down,
00:16:08
◼
►
although Apple backed down temporarily.
00:16:10
◼
►
We'll put a link in the show notes to a story about this.
00:16:12
◼
►
It seems like Apple has not committed
00:16:13
◼
►
to forever allow this to happen.
00:16:15
◼
►
Apple is just saying, oh, for now, we won't take the 30%,
00:16:19
◼
►
but it seems like they reserve the right to later to say,
00:16:21
◼
►
you know what, we want that 30% again.
00:16:23
◼
►
- I gotta tell you,
00:16:25
◼
►
we get a preposterous amount of feedback for the show,
00:16:29
◼
►
which usually is very good,
00:16:31
◼
►
and that means people are listening,
00:16:32
◼
►
people care, and that's wonderful.
00:16:34
◼
►
But when you read a pile of feedback
00:16:37
◼
►
and it's defending Facebook.
00:16:40
◼
►
- No, no, you're digging yourself into gig case.
00:16:43
◼
►
You remember, everyone's all friendly to Facebook.
00:16:45
◼
►
They're banning QAnon, they're stopping political ads
00:16:47
◼
►
after the election, which makes very little sense.
00:16:49
◼
►
But no, we're only saying nice things about Facebook.
00:16:51
◼
►
- Speak for yourself.
00:16:52
◼
►
I agree to nothing.
00:16:54
◼
►
Facebook is terrible.
00:16:55
◼
►
- Sorry, sorry, Facebook fans, I tried.
00:16:58
◼
►
- All I'm saying is that it was an uncomfortable position
00:17:00
◼
►
I'm not saying I was right, I'm just saying my word.
00:17:02
◼
►
When everyone's coming to the defense of Facebook,
00:17:05
◼
►
it makes you wonder what on earth did you do wrong?
00:17:07
◼
►
- Yeah, no, I was wondering about it,
00:17:09
◼
►
because like I said, it was baffling to me.
00:17:11
◼
►
It was like, when did we say something mean about Facebook
00:17:13
◼
►
other than the normal sort of baseline level
00:17:15
◼
►
of our joint hatred of Facebook,
00:17:17
◼
►
which were, you know, it's unspoken most of the time.
00:17:19
◼
►
By the way, incidentally, in the last episode,
00:17:21
◼
►
I recorded a rec diffs.
00:17:22
◼
►
I also complained about Facebook a lot.
00:17:23
◼
►
So if you'd love to hear me say mean things about Facebook,
00:17:25
◼
►
that's another podcast you can listen to.
00:17:28
◼
►
Anyway, in the context of the story
00:17:30
◼
►
about how Apple is mean and dumb
00:17:31
◼
►
for not letting people tell the truth about their cut,
00:17:34
◼
►
the information about how Facebook was being magnanimous
00:17:37
◼
►
and letting all the proceeds of this thing
00:17:38
◼
►
go to the live event thing is irrelevant information,
00:17:40
◼
►
but it is true, so now we have said it on the program.
00:17:44
◼
►
And Apple can't stop us.
00:17:46
◼
►
Jordan Ryan Moore writes to tell us
00:17:48
◼
►
that merchants have been allowed to add surcharges
00:17:50
◼
►
for credit card transactions since January of 2013.
00:17:54
◼
►
- Yeah, this was my fault. - I don't need all
00:17:55
◼
►
the details in this, but I heard two things
00:17:57
◼
►
about this from the feedback.
00:17:58
◼
►
One was this bit about how there was a lawsuit
00:18:00
◼
►
and people wanted to be able to charge different amounts
00:18:03
◼
►
and, you know, all that stuff.
00:18:04
◼
►
And the other thing was that there was actually a law passed
00:18:06
◼
►
to make it so that credit card companies
00:18:08
◼
►
weren't allowed to require this,
00:18:09
◼
►
and I'm not sure if they're both true
00:18:11
◼
►
or if they both combined or they both did the same thing,
00:18:13
◼
►
but it seems like that old rule
00:18:17
◼
►
about not being allowed to charge two different prices
00:18:21
◼
►
and basically making the vendor eat the cost
00:18:24
◼
►
of the credit card transaction,
00:18:25
◼
►
they can't sort of pass it on to their customer,
00:18:27
◼
►
is no longer in effect.
00:18:28
◼
►
And the thing I forgot to mention on the last show
00:18:29
◼
►
about this was that Apple used to do the same thing
00:18:32
◼
►
back in the day.
00:18:33
◼
►
I also don't remember the details of this,
00:18:34
◼
►
but remember a time when Apple said,
00:18:36
◼
►
oh, you can sell a thing on the web
00:18:38
◼
►
and also an in-app purchase,
00:18:39
◼
►
but they have to be the same price?
00:18:41
◼
►
- That was a very short-lived thing
00:18:43
◼
►
that everyone talks about,
00:18:45
◼
►
as though it was a much longer-lived thing.
00:18:47
◼
►
- Yeah, like they stopped doing it,
00:18:49
◼
►
probably for the same reason,
00:18:50
◼
►
that like, you know, people said, well, come on, right?
00:18:53
◼
►
But we remember it so much because it was so audacious.
00:18:56
◼
►
It's like, you're gonna charge 30% and then say,
00:19:00
◼
►
you know, you can't pass that on to the customer
00:19:02
◼
►
'cause it puts us at a disadvantage?
00:19:03
◼
►
Again, it's kind of like telling the truth.
00:19:05
◼
►
Like, look, Apple is taking a bite out of this.
00:19:07
◼
►
If you buy it from the web, you can get it cheaper
00:19:09
◼
►
because Apple's bite isn't there, right?
00:19:11
◼
►
And that was something that Apple didn't want conveyed.
00:19:14
◼
►
In the same way, the credit card makers didn't want people,
00:19:16
◼
►
it's like, oh, if I pay for a credit card, it's 1% more?
00:19:19
◼
►
Well, I'm gonna pay with cash then, right?
00:19:21
◼
►
I think the credit card thing lasted a lot longer
00:19:23
◼
►
than the App Store thing,
00:19:24
◼
►
but the instinct is the same to try to hide the fact
00:19:28
◼
►
that you are taking a bite out of somebody's,
00:19:31
◼
►
you know, income, real-time follow-up
00:19:34
◼
►
'cause I don't wanna get email about this.
00:19:35
◼
►
According to this article that we will link in the show notes
00:19:37
◼
►
which may be a bit old, 10 states have laws
00:19:39
◼
►
restricting any type of surcharge fees,
00:19:41
◼
►
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine,
00:19:44
◼
►
Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, and Texas.
00:19:46
◼
►
So as with anything in these United States,
00:19:49
◼
►
things tend to vary from state to state,
00:19:52
◼
►
even things that you might not expect,
00:19:53
◼
►
like rules about how much you can charge
00:19:55
◼
►
when someone uses a credit card.
00:19:58
◼
►
And furthermore, I would love to hear an update
00:20:01
◼
►
on Adam's watch battery, please.
00:20:03
◼
►
- Oh, yeah, so I said last week
00:20:05
◼
►
that after the very first day of school
00:20:07
◼
►
with Adam's family set up independent watch,
00:20:10
◼
►
that he only had like 33% battery left.
00:20:14
◼
►
Second day was way better.
00:20:16
◼
►
The main difference is on the second day,
00:20:19
◼
►
so not only is it just like not the first full day of use
00:20:23
◼
►
so that any kind of like background process
00:20:26
◼
►
that the system is doing with a new OS install,
00:20:29
◼
►
like that had time to complete
00:20:30
◼
►
if that was ever a thing on watchOS,
00:20:32
◼
►
but also on day two, I changed the watch
00:20:35
◼
►
from raise to wake to tap to wake only.
00:20:39
◼
►
So this is like, you know,
00:20:40
◼
►
so it doesn't just respond to wrist turning
00:20:43
◼
►
and turn the screen on,
00:20:44
◼
►
you have to tap the screen to turn it on.
00:20:46
◼
►
And as a result of that change
00:20:48
◼
►
and whatever time has passed,
00:20:51
◼
►
now the typical school day ends around 60 to 70% battery
00:20:55
◼
►
instead of 30% battery.
00:20:57
◼
►
And so battery life right now
00:20:59
◼
►
seems to no longer be a concern.
00:21:02
◼
►
So, so far, so good.
00:21:04
◼
►
And we remain very happy with the functionality
00:21:07
◼
►
of the family set up Apple Watch.
00:21:10
◼
►
- Moving on, Nathaniel writes
00:21:11
◼
►
with regard to cell tower trees,
00:21:13
◼
►
I work in finance for a very large cell phone tower company.
00:21:16
◼
►
The fake trees are almost always a local zoning rule.
00:21:18
◼
►
The local government thinks they look better
00:21:20
◼
►
than past rules mandating their use for any tower.
00:21:23
◼
►
Those fake branches do break off in the wind,
00:21:25
◼
►
which requires maintenance.
00:21:26
◼
►
The fake pine trees are just the tip
00:21:28
◼
►
of the quote unquote stealth structures.
00:21:30
◼
►
I've seen palm trees, cacti, flag poles, church steeples,
00:21:32
◼
►
faux water tanks, street lights, repurposed smoke stacks,
00:21:36
◼
►
faux modern art installations, et cetera.
00:21:38
◼
►
You're also correct that the more rich the area,
00:21:42
◼
►
general speaking--
00:21:42
◼
►
- Oh, just do it, come on.
00:21:44
◼
►
- No, I will not.
00:21:46
◼
►
- You can do it, I believe in you.
00:21:47
◼
►
You can take multiple runs at it
00:21:49
◼
►
and Marco will put the right one in during the other.
00:21:50
◼
►
- No, no, I'm not even gonna do it.
00:21:53
◼
►
- The less receptive the town is to having cell towers.
00:21:55
◼
►
The most likely place in those instances
00:21:57
◼
►
where a town might have a tower is on the DPW's
00:22:00
◼
►
Department for Public Works, is that right?
00:22:01
◼
►
- Department of Public Works, yeah.
00:22:02
◼
►
- Or Police Station Property,
00:22:04
◼
►
and then the tower company provides space
00:22:05
◼
►
to the municipal service for their radios.
00:22:08
◼
►
- Yeah, I love the idea of making fake trees
00:22:10
◼
►
and then having to pay as the limbs break off
00:22:13
◼
►
because, you know, first of all,
00:22:14
◼
►
limbs fall off real trees all the time,
00:22:16
◼
►
and second of all, real trees are surprisingly sturdy
00:22:19
◼
►
as compared to manmade ones and surprisingly resilient
00:22:22
◼
►
when it comes to wind, so it's kind of inevitable
00:22:25
◼
►
that all these sort of useless cosmetic only things,
00:22:28
◼
►
like you're basically making a bunch of things
00:22:29
◼
►
to catch the wind that serve no functional purpose
00:22:32
◼
►
but absolutely will bend and break off in the wind,
00:22:35
◼
►
and now you have something else that you need to do,
00:22:36
◼
►
maintain your hideously ugly tree.
00:22:39
◼
►
We got a lot, one batch of good feedback we got
00:22:41
◼
►
from last show was tons of people sending us pictures
00:22:44
◼
►
of hilarious cell phone trees,
00:22:46
◼
►
and I did see a couple of cacti in there
00:22:49
◼
►
and weird palm trees and pine trees
00:22:52
◼
►
and just you name it, cell towers are everywhere
00:22:55
◼
►
except near rich people.
00:22:57
◼
►
- And I'm sorry, if you didn't wanna say rich,
00:23:00
◼
►
what else could you say?
00:23:02
◼
►
- I was just thinking about it,
00:23:03
◼
►
and I was gonna go the other direction,
00:23:05
◼
►
so I'm glad I didn't say anything.
00:23:06
◼
►
- I know, you just need to get that pathway,
00:23:11
◼
►
you know, it's like an e-fuse.
00:23:13
◼
►
I've been reading too much about consoles.
00:23:15
◼
►
You know what an e-fuse is?
00:23:17
◼
►
- This kind of blows my mind.
00:23:18
◼
►
Electronic fuses inside CPUs, right?
00:23:22
◼
►
It's like a fuse, just like a regular fuse,
00:23:24
◼
►
but it's inside the CPU and you can blow it at any time
00:23:27
◼
►
with software essentially,
00:23:28
◼
►
and then once it's blown, it's blown, right?
00:23:29
◼
►
- What? - What?
00:23:30
◼
►
- And when-- - Wait, what?
00:23:32
◼
►
- I forget which of the Xboxes,
00:23:34
◼
►
maybe it was the 360, maybe it was the most recent one,
00:23:36
◼
►
but anyway, they used e-fuses to,
00:23:39
◼
►
they would blow e-fuses with updates
00:23:41
◼
►
to prevent you from being able to revert
00:23:43
◼
►
to a previous version.
00:23:44
◼
►
- Oh, wow. - What?
00:23:46
◼
►
- So how many e-fuses are there?
00:23:48
◼
►
- I don't know how many, but it's like,
00:23:50
◼
►
that's the pulling out the big guns to try.
00:23:52
◼
►
And of course, it never actually stops piracy.
00:23:54
◼
►
Like the pirates are incredibly clever
00:23:56
◼
►
and they find a way around it, but it just makes it harder.
00:23:58
◼
►
Sony did not do this apparently, but Microsoft did.
00:24:00
◼
►
I'm like, man, can you imagine the pressure
00:24:02
◼
►
of like accidentally bricking or screwing something up
00:24:05
◼
►
when you know you're literally blowing tiny hardware fuses
00:24:08
◼
►
inside people's consoles when they update?
00:24:10
◼
►
It's terrifying.
00:24:11
◼
►
- I'm also told a real-time follow-up from Jelly
00:24:13
◼
►
that the Switch also has e-fuses apparently.
00:24:15
◼
►
- Yeah, try not to think about this type of stuff.
00:24:19
◼
►
- Man, that's weird.
00:24:20
◼
►
All right, moving on.
00:24:22
◼
►
With regard to an Ask ATP question from last week
00:24:25
◼
►
and baby monitors, I had recommended the Infant Optics DVR
00:24:30
◼
►
something, something, I forget exactly what it was.
00:24:31
◼
►
It's in the show notes from last week.
00:24:33
◼
►
We had a handful of people write in,
00:24:35
◼
►
including a friend of the show,
00:24:36
◼
►
Dan Provost from Studio Neat,
00:24:38
◼
►
recommending the Wirecutter pick,
00:24:40
◼
►
which is the, I guess, Eufy Space View.
00:24:43
◼
►
And Dan writes, "I had the same Infant Optics monitor
00:24:45
◼
►
"as Casey for our first baby,
00:24:46
◼
►
"but we decided to treat ourselves to a new one
00:24:49
◼
►
"for our new baby.
00:24:50
◼
►
"We went with the Wirecutter pick, the Eufy,
00:24:51
◼
►
"and it is significantly better in every way
00:24:53
◼
►
"except the kickstand, just in case you are directing
00:24:55
◼
►
"your parents to a baby monitor.
00:24:57
◼
►
"They definitely want the Eufy and not the Infant Optics,
00:24:59
◼
►
"which had a good run but is outdated.
00:25:01
◼
►
"Also, I fully agree with Marco.
00:25:02
◼
►
"I would never want an S-style solution,
00:25:04
◼
►
"even if the quality and latency were flawless,
00:25:06
◼
►
"just too annoying to be constantly opening an app
00:25:08
◼
►
"versus having a constant monitor."
00:25:11
◼
►
So yeah, the Eufy, from what I understand,
00:25:13
◼
►
is somebody who gave a crap designed a baby monitor.
00:25:16
◼
►
It is not flawless.
00:25:18
◼
►
The kickstand, I guess, sucks.
00:25:19
◼
►
It looks like the Nintendo Switch kickstand,
00:25:20
◼
►
which definitely sucks.
00:25:22
◼
►
There's also no lights.
00:25:24
◼
►
Like, the Infant Optics has a series of LEDs
00:25:26
◼
►
that will light up, so you can have the monitor screen off.
00:25:29
◼
►
You can have the volume off.
00:25:30
◼
►
You can still get a level of how much volume
00:25:33
◼
►
there is in the room.
00:25:34
◼
►
The Eufy doesn't have that.
00:25:36
◼
►
But apparently, in every other way, it's actually modern,
00:25:40
◼
►
whereas the Infant Optics one is clearly out of the mid-2010s.
00:25:45
◼
►
And coincidentally, the Eufy Space View came out
00:25:48
◼
►
like six months after Michaela was born.
00:25:51
◼
►
And so that's why I was not at all aware of it.
00:25:53
◼
►
But if you haven't yet bought a monitor,
00:25:55
◼
►
I've heard and would recommend the Eufy Space View,
00:26:00
◼
►
because apparently it is very good.
00:26:02
◼
►
- I feel like these are all tongue twisters.
00:26:03
◼
►
- Yeah, they really are.
00:26:04
◼
►
- What Casey was saying was infant, as in a baby infant,
00:26:07
◼
►
infant optics, right?
00:26:10
◼
►
So that's the first one, infant optics.
00:26:11
◼
►
That's infant space optics.
00:26:13
◼
►
And then Eufy is E-U-F-Y,
00:26:16
◼
►
which apparently is the smart home sub-brand of Anchor,
00:26:20
◼
►
someone in the chat room says.
00:26:21
◼
►
- Oh, I didn't know that.
00:26:23
◼
►
- E-U-F-Y, there you go.
00:26:25
◼
►
- We are sponsored this week by Hover.
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Everything I make, I first have to have a name
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That's just the kind of person I am.
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And the very first thing I do,
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once I think of the good name,
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is I go to Hover and I search
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to see what kind of domain names I can get for that name.
00:26:56
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And Hover has over 300 domain name extensions to choose from
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there's a domain name waiting for it.
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They also have excellent technical support
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And their support team, not only are they really good,
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I've actually used them a couple times
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and they've been wonderful,
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but they also don't try to upsell you.
00:27:17
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A lot of places, if you contact support,
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they see it as a sales opportunity
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to try to push you into higher plans or more add-ons.
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They don't do that.
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They only work hard to help you get online.
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They offer free Whois privacy protection,
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a very clean, easy to use UI for managing all your domains,
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and they have monthly sales on popular top-level domains.
00:27:36
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So it's hard not to see why Hover is a popular choice
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for people starting all kinds of businesses.
00:27:41
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It's also, it's just a wonderful thing
00:27:43
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being a Hover customer.
00:27:44
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It's super easy to use.
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00:27:48
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They have great services.
00:27:49
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Like I use, they also offer email service
00:27:51
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if you need email service for your domain.
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I use that on a couple of mine.
00:27:55
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Get your domain name and many more at hover.com/atp.
00:28:01
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00:28:07
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00:28:11
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00:28:13
◼
►
- Is this the time, and I'm asking not sarcastically,
00:28:20
◼
►
is this the time that we do the report card
00:28:21
◼
►
year in review thing that Marco came up with
00:28:23
◼
►
a few years ago, or am I crazy?
00:28:24
◼
►
- Exit interview, he used to call it.
00:28:26
◼
►
- That's what it was.
00:28:28
◼
►
I knew report card wasn't right.
00:28:28
◼
►
I couldn't think of what the name of it was.
00:28:31
◼
►
Exit interview.
00:28:31
◼
►
We're obviously referring to,
00:28:33
◼
►
there's gonna be an Apple event on this coming Tuesday.
00:28:36
◼
►
I don't know what day, what is that?
00:28:37
◼
►
The 13th, lucky number 13.
00:28:39
◼
►
There'll be an Apple event.
00:28:40
◼
►
And so this is the last week before our iPhones,
00:28:45
◼
►
our current iPhones are pieces of utter garbage.
00:28:47
◼
►
And so now is the time to do the iPhone 11 Pro report card.
00:28:52
◼
►
John, what--
00:28:54
◼
►
- Exit interview.
00:28:55
◼
►
- Sorry, exit interview.
00:28:56
◼
►
See, we gotta change in the show notes.
00:28:57
◼
►
I'm like Ron Burgundy, for goodness sakes.
00:29:00
◼
►
So anyways, so John, what are you on?
00:29:03
◼
►
Are you on a 10 or an 11 Pro?
00:29:07
◼
►
My wife has the 11 Pro.
00:29:10
◼
►
So I am on the 11 Pro.
00:29:12
◼
►
Marco, you're on an 11 Pro as well, right?
00:29:14
◼
►
- I sure am.
00:29:16
◼
►
So I still love this darn phone.
00:29:20
◼
►
The one major complaint I have about it
00:29:24
◼
►
is that I feel like,
00:29:26
◼
►
I think I talked about this on the show,
00:29:27
◼
►
I feel like this screen has been scratched to smithereens.
00:29:32
◼
►
And it is probably my fault.
00:29:36
◼
►
I'm not saying it's not my fault.
00:29:37
◼
►
But it is scratched so badly in so many places,
00:29:41
◼
►
so much worse than any other phone I've ever had.
00:29:44
◼
►
And I treat it the same way I've treated every iPhone
00:29:47
◼
►
since the 3GS, which was my first.
00:29:50
◼
►
It is scratched to death.
00:29:53
◼
►
Marco, do you find the same thing on your phone?
00:29:55
◼
►
- I actually haven't had that problem on the 11.
00:29:57
◼
►
I did have that problem on,
00:29:59
◼
►
I forget whether it was the 10 or the 10S.
00:30:01
◼
►
One of them was the same problem for me,
00:30:04
◼
►
where I didn't abuse it anymore or less than any other phone
00:30:07
◼
►
but it just got scratched to hell for some reason,
00:30:08
◼
►
like on the screen.
00:30:10
◼
►
'Cause it's hard when you're designing the screen materials.
00:30:13
◼
►
There's a lot of tension between various
00:30:16
◼
►
physical characteristics to optimize for.
00:30:18
◼
►
You know, if you optimize for scratch resistance,
00:30:21
◼
►
that usually it makes it harder and more brittle
00:30:23
◼
►
and more prone to cracks when people drop it.
00:30:26
◼
►
And if you're being pragmatic about
00:30:29
◼
►
how you're designing a phone,
00:30:31
◼
►
I think you probably want to protect against
00:30:34
◼
►
shattering when it's dropped
00:30:36
◼
►
more than you want to protect against
00:30:38
◼
►
minor scratchability from just the surface
00:30:41
◼
►
being a little bit soft.
00:30:42
◼
►
And even though that's worse for people like us
00:30:45
◼
►
who don't drop our phones, it's much worse for us.
00:30:48
◼
►
But if you're optimizing for the whole population,
00:30:50
◼
►
I can see why you would make that decision.
00:30:52
◼
►
- Sure, yeah.
00:30:53
◼
►
And otherwise, I really, really love this phone.
00:30:57
◼
►
I love the camera system.
00:30:59
◼
►
I still think it looks a little quirky
00:31:02
◼
►
having the three big lenses back there,
00:31:04
◼
►
but as with the Notch, like within a couple of weeks,
00:31:07
◼
►
I mostly have been able to ignore it.
00:31:10
◼
►
The Notch also, I don't mind it at all.
00:31:13
◼
►
And in fact, I remember when we were
00:31:16
◼
►
all about to get our iPhone 10s that I thought,
00:31:18
◼
►
oh, this is gonna bother me for a long time.
00:31:20
◼
►
And it didn't.
00:31:20
◼
►
So the Notch really doesn't bother me.
00:31:22
◼
►
I do think it would be neat to have
00:31:25
◼
►
one of the more circular pinhole style setups
00:31:27
◼
►
like the Android phones have,
00:31:29
◼
►
but I'm not going to complain if the iPhone 12
00:31:32
◼
►
or whatever's coming next has a Notch as well.
00:31:34
◼
►
I don't think it's a big deal.
00:31:36
◼
►
But the camera system's great.
00:31:38
◼
►
The phone is still fast.
00:31:40
◼
►
I don't even know what size mine is,
00:31:42
◼
►
but I'm not running out of space.
00:31:44
◼
►
I love this thing with the exception of the
00:31:49
◼
►
screen getting scratched to smithereens.
00:31:51
◼
►
And I am really hopeful that the next one,
00:31:56
◼
►
by the way, mine is a 256 gig model.
00:31:58
◼
►
I'm really hoping that the next one
00:32:00
◼
►
does indeed have the square sides like the rumors say,
00:32:03
◼
►
because I don't mind the curved sides,
00:32:06
◼
►
and it's not the most slippery phone
00:32:08
◼
►
I've ever used in my life, but it is slippery.
00:32:11
◼
►
And I feel like having those solid or straight sides,
00:32:15
◼
►
flat sides would be extremely nice.
00:32:19
◼
►
But I'm getting ahead of myself, I suppose.
00:32:21
◼
►
I really, really love this phone,
00:32:24
◼
►
and I am definitely getting a new one
00:32:27
◼
►
because I'm a sucker, but I am not actively looking
00:32:32
◼
►
to get rid of this one as much as I am actively looking
00:32:35
◼
►
to get a new screen or a new glass on the screen,
00:32:38
◼
►
which I could do to this,
00:32:39
◼
►
but I would be without a phone for a little while.
00:32:41
◼
►
Marco, other thoughts on the 11 Pro?
00:32:43
◼
►
- Yeah, I think I agree with much
00:32:45
◼
►
of what you've said about it.
00:32:49
◼
►
One regression of the 11 Pro compared to the 10S,
00:32:52
◼
►
in my opinion, is they changed the texturing on the back.
00:32:56
◼
►
Like, the back of these phones have alternated
00:32:58
◼
►
between almost like a sandblaster kind of textured finish
00:33:02
◼
►
and a flat polished glass finish.
00:33:05
◼
►
And on the 11, I believe, this is when they switched it,
00:33:08
◼
►
used to be that the whole back of it was glossy,
00:33:10
◼
►
and then the area around the camera cutout was matte.
00:33:14
◼
►
And with the 11 series, the entire back was matte,
00:33:18
◼
►
and the camera area was glossy.
00:33:19
◼
►
What that did for me was make the phone impossible
00:33:23
◼
►
to use without a case.
00:33:24
◼
►
Like, the 10 and the 10S, I would occasionally,
00:33:27
◼
►
like if I was wearing tight jeans, you know,
00:33:30
◼
►
like my skinny pants, then I wouldn't want the bulk
00:33:35
◼
►
of a giant case, or any giant phone really,
00:33:38
◼
►
in my pocket and sort of minimize the bulk,
00:33:40
◼
►
I would take the phone out of the case for a few days
00:33:43
◼
►
and use it like that.
00:33:44
◼
►
And with the 11, I cannot do that.
00:33:46
◼
►
Like the 11 Pro, excuse me, I think the 11 actually,
00:33:50
◼
►
the non-Pro I think actually flips it around
00:33:52
◼
►
and actually fixes this.
00:33:53
◼
►
Anyway, the Pro, I can't do that.
00:33:55
◼
►
It's so slippery, I can't use this phone without a case.
00:33:59
◼
►
And it's the first phone in a long time
00:34:01
◼
►
that I can say that about.
00:34:03
◼
►
Like usually, like ever since the 6 series,
00:34:07
◼
►
I've been using cases just because the stupid,
00:34:08
◼
►
you know, bar of soap sides design
00:34:11
◼
►
made case use nearly inevitable.
00:34:14
◼
►
But I could get by it with previous phones.
00:34:17
◼
►
This one, I can't.
00:34:18
◼
►
It's just, it's way too slippery.
00:34:20
◼
►
So much more slippery than even the XS was.
00:34:23
◼
►
So besides that, I am overall very satisfied with it,
00:34:28
◼
►
but I really do wish for a lighter weight
00:34:33
◼
►
and slightly smaller phone.
00:34:35
◼
►
I'm very curious about the rumored,
00:34:37
◼
►
like slightly smaller one, the five point something inch one.
00:34:41
◼
►
Unless that phone has some kind of major,
00:34:43
◼
►
like feature cut downsides,
00:34:46
◼
►
I'll probably go for that this year.
00:34:48
◼
►
Because this phone is just a little bit big
00:34:51
◼
►
and a little bit heavy.
00:34:52
◼
►
That being said, you know, the screen is great.
00:34:55
◼
►
I love the screen when I'm using it,
00:34:57
◼
►
you know, when I'm not just carrying it,
00:34:58
◼
►
when I'm not trying to wedge it into a pocket
00:35:00
◼
►
or move it around so it's not like all sticking out
00:35:03
◼
►
weird as I walk.
00:35:04
◼
►
But I just, I don't like how this phone feels in my pocket.
00:35:09
◼
►
It's too big still.
00:35:11
◼
►
It's not like super massive, like the Max,
00:35:14
◼
►
but it's bigger than I would like.
00:35:16
◼
►
So I'm really hoping for the smaller one.
00:35:19
◼
►
I'm also hoping that if a smaller one comes,
00:35:22
◼
►
that it doesn't sacrifice too much on battery life.
00:35:25
◼
►
'Cause historically, part of the trade off
00:35:27
◼
►
of bigger versus smaller phones,
00:35:30
◼
►
is that the bigger phones get bigger batteries,
00:35:32
◼
►
which does make them heavier, you know, admittedly.
00:35:35
◼
►
But that's usually a pretty good feature of the big ones.
00:35:39
◼
►
The 11 has such great battery life,
00:35:42
◼
►
the 11 Pro rather, has such great battery life,
00:35:44
◼
►
that if the smaller one that comes out allegedly next week
00:35:48
◼
►
has significantly less battery life in practice,
00:35:51
◼
►
that's gonna be disappointing.
00:35:52
◼
►
But I think I'm still gonna probably go for the smaller one
00:35:54
◼
►
unless like, if the camera's not anywhere near as good.
00:35:59
◼
►
Now if I just lose the 2X lens,
00:36:01
◼
►
but I still have like the regular and the wide,
00:36:04
◼
►
I think I'd probably still take that trade off
00:36:05
◼
►
and take the small one.
00:36:07
◼
►
- Yeah, I wouldn't have thought this a year ago,
00:36:11
◼
►
but I actually have been using the wide
00:36:13
◼
►
more than I've expected to,
00:36:16
◼
►
and I've been using the 2X less than I expect to.
00:36:19
◼
►
Maybe if I suddenly lost it,
00:36:21
◼
►
I would realize I miss it more than I thought.
00:36:24
◼
►
But I'm looking forward to a smaller phone,
00:36:27
◼
►
and if it takes the loss of a 2X camera to get that,
00:36:32
◼
►
and nothing else about it is really significantly worse,
00:36:35
◼
►
then I will probably take that trade off.
00:36:38
◼
►
Finally, again I know this is a long shot,
00:36:41
◼
►
I really still want USB-C.
00:36:44
◼
►
- I am so tired of lightning,
00:36:47
◼
►
because my house is full of wires and they're all different.
00:36:51
◼
►
And I have to have different chargers and different wires,
00:36:54
◼
►
and I gotta always know which cable,
00:36:55
◼
►
just the entire world has moved to USB-C already.
00:36:59
◼
►
Everything, like every accessory,
00:37:02
◼
►
like everything is USB-C except the iPhone.
00:37:05
◼
►
And I know there are reasons,
00:37:10
◼
►
I will assert that those reasons are overruled
00:37:13
◼
►
by the incredible benefit we would have
00:37:16
◼
►
if the iPhone charged with USB-C.
00:37:19
◼
►
So I really, really hope Apple will eventually do this.
00:37:23
◼
►
I don't know if it's gonna happen this year,
00:37:27
◼
►
or next year, or never,
00:37:29
◼
►
but every single year I'm going to hope for it.
00:37:33
◼
►
- Now I completely agree with you,
00:37:35
◼
►
I would love to just simplify my life and go all USB-C.
00:37:39
◼
►
I also agree with you,
00:37:41
◼
►
I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon if at all.
00:37:43
◼
►
I think we are way more likely to get a touch ID sensor
00:37:47
◼
►
on the sleep/wake button or lock button,
00:37:49
◼
►
whatever it's called, than we are USB-C.
00:37:51
◼
►
And I'm not particularly confident
00:37:52
◼
►
about either of those things to be honest,
00:37:54
◼
►
but I am way more confident about touch ID than I am USB-C.
00:37:58
◼
►
But I don't know, we'll see what happens.
00:38:00
◼
►
So John, this is an on year for you, right?
00:38:04
◼
►
So I presume you're looking to upgrade
00:38:06
◼
►
to some sort of iPhone 12?
00:38:08
◼
►
- Yeah, and since my wife has the 11 Pro,
00:38:09
◼
►
I asked her to come down and bring me her phone
00:38:13
◼
►
so I can look at it, check the screen for scratches
00:38:15
◼
►
and stuff to verify Casey's situation.
00:38:18
◼
►
And because she loves me and cares so much about this show,
00:38:20
◼
►
she said, "How long do you need it?"
00:38:24
◼
►
And I promised her it would only be a short amount of time.
00:38:26
◼
►
Pokemon Go is a terrible thing, people.
00:38:28
◼
►
Don't get addicted.
00:38:30
◼
►
So I looked at her phone and there are definitely
00:38:32
◼
►
more scratches than there are in my XS,
00:38:34
◼
►
but she does not treat her phone like I treat mine.
00:38:37
◼
►
She just throws it into her purse next to her keys.
00:38:40
◼
►
She doesn't care, like just, it is,
00:38:43
◼
►
she does things with her phone.
00:38:44
◼
►
I don't understand how it's still in one piece, right?
00:38:46
◼
►
- I mean, to be fair, nobody should treat their phone
00:38:49
◼
►
the way you treat yours.
00:38:51
◼
►
- I mean, that's another thing I want to get to.
00:38:53
◼
►
So you mentioned people who don't drop our phones.
00:38:55
◼
►
Like I've never broken an iPhone,
00:38:57
◼
►
which maybe I'm getting lucky
00:38:58
◼
►
or maybe I just take care of it,
00:39:00
◼
►
but this phone and many of my other phones
00:39:02
◼
►
have fallen from a height.
00:39:03
◼
►
So for example, this phone, within its lifetime,
00:39:06
◼
►
got knocked off of the mantle over my fireplace
00:39:09
◼
►
because I was dusting and it was on the mantle, right?
00:39:12
◼
►
So it's from a mantle, a pretty high fireplace mantle height
00:39:16
◼
►
onto a hardwood floor, right?
00:39:18
◼
►
And this is the XS, right?
00:39:19
◼
►
And it didn't shatter, right?
00:39:20
◼
►
And it's been knocked off my nightstand
00:39:22
◼
►
who knows how many times when I'm groggy in the morning
00:39:24
◼
►
reaching for it and knock it up,
00:39:25
◼
►
but then it's just falling into carpet,
00:39:26
◼
►
so it's not a big deal.
00:39:27
◼
►
Although sometimes it falls into hardwood
00:39:29
◼
►
depending on which side it falls off.
00:39:31
◼
►
But the point is this thing has hit the ground.
00:39:32
◼
►
It's just got the Apple leather case on it.
00:39:34
◼
►
It's hit the ground from reasonable heights many times
00:39:36
◼
►
as I either grew up for it or don't notice it's there
00:39:38
◼
►
and accidentally knock it over, right?
00:39:40
◼
►
And it hasn't shattered.
00:39:41
◼
►
And this is the XS, right?
00:39:42
◼
►
So this is the one with the ostensibly harder,
00:39:46
◼
►
easier to shatter, but harder to scratch screen.
00:39:49
◼
►
But anyway, I agree with Marco that I think
00:39:52
◼
►
the trade-off of not shattering
00:39:53
◼
►
is the right way to go with this.
00:39:55
◼
►
So the 11 Pro, my wife does not take good care of it,
00:40:00
◼
►
but I had to actually clean the screen
00:40:02
◼
►
to really assess how many scratches there were
00:40:04
◼
►
without me cleaning the screen off.
00:40:06
◼
►
It's really hard to tell.
00:40:07
◼
►
None of my scratches are so big
00:40:08
◼
►
that I would even have noticed them
00:40:10
◼
►
if I hadn't been looking for them.
00:40:11
◼
►
So I don't think that's that big of a deal.
00:40:13
◼
►
But yeah, this is my year for the phone,
00:40:15
◼
►
and I haven't been keeping up with the rumors,
00:40:18
◼
►
mostly because I figure, well, I don't know,
00:40:20
◼
►
I figured everything would be fine.
00:40:22
◼
►
I know all the rumors about the different sizes
00:40:24
◼
►
and all that other stuff,
00:40:25
◼
►
but the thing I had been wondering,
00:40:27
◼
►
and I saw the supposed leaked flat-sided case
00:40:31
◼
►
and everything I asked, but the thing I had been wondering
00:40:32
◼
►
and I could never keep track of,
00:40:33
◼
►
which is like, so if the two sizes,
00:40:36
◼
►
I know there's supposed to be a smaller one,
00:40:38
◼
►
but not as small as the SE, and then a bigger one,
00:40:41
◼
►
but my question was always, okay,
00:40:43
◼
►
but are any of them going to be the same size as my XS,
00:40:48
◼
►
or what is going to be the one
00:40:50
◼
►
that is closest in size to my XS, right?
00:40:53
◼
►
And the reason I asked that is because I felt
00:40:55
◼
►
like the SE was the right size.
00:40:57
◼
►
I felt like the X was a little bit too big,
00:41:00
◼
►
but now that I've had the X size for a while,
00:41:02
◼
►
I'm like, okay, well, I appreciate the bigger screen,
00:41:05
◼
►
and the size isn't so big that it really,
00:41:08
◼
►
that it is too big for me.
00:41:10
◼
►
So when I buy a new phone next time,
00:41:13
◼
►
I don't think I want the small one,
00:41:15
◼
►
because I kind of like having the screen as big as it is.
00:41:17
◼
►
If it went back to the SE, that might be okay,
00:41:19
◼
►
but then somebody, I'm assuming Casey,
00:41:21
◼
►
has put a bunch of the rumored sizes in here,
00:41:23
◼
►
and it seems like my only choice is
00:41:26
◼
►
if I want to get the top-of-the-line phone
00:41:28
◼
►
after the event next week is a phone
00:41:31
◼
►
that is 3/10 of an inch bigger than my current phone.
00:41:35
◼
►
- Right, and that's not a small difference.
00:41:37
◼
►
Like, that puts it, I believe, at the same size
00:41:40
◼
►
as like the XR line, right, the XR on base 11?
00:41:44
◼
►
- I think that's right.
00:41:45
◼
►
I didn't verify that, but I think you're right.
00:41:47
◼
►
- Yeah, and so, like, and that's,
00:41:49
◼
►
and I've handled that.
00:41:50
◼
►
I've never used one, like, for more than a second in a store,
00:41:52
◼
►
but like, you know, when I've handled them in the store,
00:41:54
◼
►
I've had the same feeling of, like, you know, like,
00:41:56
◼
►
again, like, when I use my 10/10S/11 Pro sized phone,
00:42:01
◼
►
the 5.8 inch screen with the notch,
00:42:05
◼
►
I've always thought, like, I can use this,
00:42:08
◼
►
but I wish it were a little bit smaller.
00:42:11
◼
►
And so now, the fact that they're going to make it
00:42:13
◼
►
a little bit bigger, that's what's making me really
00:42:17
◼
►
hope that that smaller phone is a real thing,
00:42:19
◼
►
and that it's compelling in all other ways,
00:42:21
◼
►
because I just am not excited about this phone
00:42:25
◼
►
that is already a bit big for me getting a bit bigger.
00:42:29
◼
►
- Oh, and I have an update related to something
00:42:30
◼
►
just mentioned in the chat room, pouch update.
00:42:34
◼
►
You know about my phone pouch, right?
00:42:35
◼
►
Well, so here, this is a side effect of COVID, right?
00:42:39
◼
►
So COVID comes and everyone's in the house all the time,
00:42:41
◼
►
and I'm never going anywhere, especially in the beginning,
00:42:42
◼
►
like, really just never leaving the house, right?
00:42:45
◼
►
And my sort of pattern of placement of stuff of, like,
00:42:49
◼
►
here's where I keep all my things,
00:42:51
◼
►
I have, like, my stuff that I go to work with,
00:42:52
◼
►
and just everything arranged in a particular place,
00:42:54
◼
►
the stuff that I go to work with eventually
00:42:56
◼
►
just got put away, because I realized, well,
00:42:57
◼
►
I'm not going into work anytime soon,
00:42:59
◼
►
so I'm just gonna put that stuff away.
00:43:01
◼
►
So the pouch got put away, too, which is fine,
00:43:03
◼
►
because the pouch, as we know, is only a thing
00:43:05
◼
►
for when I go out of the house, but if I'm never
00:43:07
◼
►
going out of the house, I'm never gonna use the pouch.
00:43:09
◼
►
But eventually, the pouch got put so far away
00:43:12
◼
►
that when I did go out of the house,
00:43:13
◼
►
I'd go without the pouch.
00:43:14
◼
►
I mean, just going on a dog walk or whatever.
00:43:19
◼
►
- But I basically trained myself out of using the pouch
00:43:21
◼
►
in the external world.
00:43:22
◼
►
Part of it was because I'm like, well,
00:43:24
◼
►
I'm gonna be getting rid of this phone soon anyway,
00:43:25
◼
►
so what do I care, you know what I mean?
00:43:27
◼
►
Like, although now that I've just examined the screen
00:43:29
◼
►
after cleaning it, I realize there are still zero scratches
00:43:31
◼
►
on my XS, so I still think I'm babying it.
00:43:34
◼
►
Like, I would never put it next to a set of keys,
00:43:36
◼
►
for example, but I may, we'll see how this goes.
00:43:39
◼
►
I may be off the pouch lifestyle with my,
00:43:42
◼
►
with this and my future phones.
00:43:43
◼
►
It's hard to tell because we're still in COVID times
00:43:45
◼
►
and I'm still technically not really going anywhere ever.
00:43:48
◼
►
Right, so we'll see, but I think I may be out of the,
00:43:52
◼
►
I still have the pouch and it still fits this phone,
00:43:55
◼
►
but maybe I won't buy a new pouch for my new phone
00:43:57
◼
►
and may be able to see how that goes.
00:43:58
◼
►
- Wow. - You know,
00:43:59
◼
►
since this is a safe space, I can admit to you that after,
00:44:04
◼
►
I think I noticed a scratch or two
00:44:07
◼
►
after one of the beach trips that I took with this phone,
00:44:11
◼
►
and subsequent to that, there was a second beach trip
00:44:14
◼
►
that I took and I actually employed a pouch
00:44:17
◼
►
for the purposes of letting it rest in a beach bag
00:44:20
◼
►
or in a tent or whatever, because I felt like,
00:44:23
◼
►
I don't, I don't know if I would go so far as to say
00:44:25
◼
►
I'd baby my phone, but I don't think,
00:44:28
◼
►
with the exception of having dropped my first 11 Pro
00:44:31
◼
►
on a cement driveway the day I got it,
00:44:33
◼
►
after that, after that, I feel like I didn't do too badly
00:44:36
◼
►
with it and I'm guessing that it was during storage
00:44:40
◼
►
in a beach bag or something like that
00:44:41
◼
►
that it ended up getting scratched up,
00:44:43
◼
►
and so I did employ, just for the purpose of the beach bag,
00:44:47
◼
►
I did employ a pouch and I don't think it made
00:44:49
◼
►
any darn difference because I think the damage
00:44:51
◼
►
had already been done, but here we are.
00:44:53
◼
►
I was living the pouch lifestyle.
00:44:56
◼
►
- The pouch was transferred from me to Casey.
00:44:58
◼
►
- Yeah. (laughing)
00:45:00
◼
►
I don't know which of you has won there.
00:45:02
◼
►
- Yeah, well, me neither.
00:45:03
◼
►
- Well, one of us has a scratch-free phone, so.
00:45:07
◼
►
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(upbeat music)
00:46:41
◼
►
- Real-time follow-up, the iPhone 11 is 6.1 inches.
00:46:46
◼
►
The iPhone 11 Pro is either 5.8 inches,
00:46:50
◼
►
which is what Marco and I are talking about,
00:46:52
◼
►
or the big one is 6.5 inches.
00:46:55
◼
►
So it's 5.8 for the 11 Pro, 6.1 for the 11,
00:46:59
◼
►
6.5 for the other 11 Pro.
00:47:02
◼
►
The 12 is rumored, the non-Pro 12 is rumored
00:47:05
◼
►
to be 5.4 inches, so that's 4/10 smaller
00:47:09
◼
►
than Marco's phone and my phone.
00:47:11
◼
►
And the big one is rumored to be 6.1 inches,
00:47:15
◼
►
which is 3/10 larger than Marco's and my phone.
00:47:19
◼
►
And then the 12 Pro is going to start at 6.1 inches,
00:47:24
◼
►
again, 3/10 larger, and go as high as 6.7 inches,
00:47:29
◼
►
which I already think that the big phones
00:47:32
◼
►
at 6.5 inches are preposterously large.
00:47:35
◼
►
So I can't imagine a 6.7 inch phone.
00:47:38
◼
►
For me, I think I mostly agree with you, Marco.
00:47:43
◼
►
I would rather go a hint smaller if I could,
00:47:47
◼
►
but I know myself well enough to know
00:47:49
◼
►
that I will almost certainly be completely
00:47:52
◼
►
and utterly unwilling to give up anything.
00:47:54
◼
►
So like if the non-Pro 12 has only two cameras,
00:47:59
◼
►
as you were describing, which I think is
00:48:00
◼
►
a very fair conjecture to make,
00:48:02
◼
►
I don't think I would do it.
00:48:03
◼
►
I think I would just suck it up and get a 6.1 inch phone,
00:48:06
◼
►
which I would really rather not do,
00:48:09
◼
►
but knowing myself well enough,
00:48:10
◼
►
I think I would end up doing exactly that.
00:48:12
◼
►
- I mean, it's not a 6.1 inch phone.
00:48:13
◼
►
Like, those are diagonal screen measurements,
00:48:15
◼
►
and the flat sides should shave a lot off, right?
00:48:18
◼
►
So like, well, what we're really gonna be looking for
00:48:20
◼
►
once we announce these is go to the Apple site
00:48:22
◼
►
and find the thing that gives you the outside dimensions,
00:48:24
◼
►
you know, in millimeters, and then we'll see
00:48:26
◼
►
how much bigger it actually is than an 11 or a 10S
00:48:29
◼
►
or whatever.
00:48:30
◼
►
- Yeah, also a couple other things.
00:48:31
◼
►
Yeah, like, first of all, that's one of the reasons
00:48:33
◼
►
why I'm hoping for a like case shape rethinking,
00:48:37
◼
►
like with the straight sides and everything.
00:48:39
◼
►
If I can use it without a case,
00:48:42
◼
►
then that makes it effectively smaller for me.
00:48:45
◼
►
And so maybe I would then stick with the medium size
00:48:47
◼
►
if it's something that I could use without a case.
00:48:49
◼
►
But also, if you're interested in what the smaller size
00:48:51
◼
►
looks like, a couple of months ago,
00:48:53
◼
►
MacRumors published images of the rumored sizes
00:48:57
◼
►
such that you could, like, whatever phone you have,
00:49:02
◼
►
they have separate downloads, and so you could see,
00:49:04
◼
►
like, all right, show me what the small phone would look like
00:49:08
◼
►
if I'm holding a 10S or an 11 or whatever.
00:49:10
◼
►
And then you can view that image, like at 1X
00:49:13
◼
►
in your camera roll at full screen,
00:49:15
◼
►
and it shows you exactly what size that phone would be
00:49:18
◼
►
on your existing phone.
00:49:20
◼
►
It's actually a really nice estimation tool,
00:49:22
◼
►
and so I've actually had that tab open
00:49:24
◼
►
in my mobile Safari browser for like two months
00:49:27
◼
►
just so I could occasionally look over and edit
00:49:28
◼
►
and be like, hmm, I think I do want the smaller size phone.
00:49:31
◼
►
Like, it is noticeably narrower,
00:49:35
◼
►
which I think would be the limiting factor.
00:49:37
◼
►
Like, it is obviously shorter as well.
00:49:40
◼
►
From top to bottom, it's shorter,
00:49:41
◼
►
but I don't really care so much about that.
00:49:44
◼
►
Like, ever since the notch era, the phones are so tall
00:49:48
◼
►
that I don't necessarily need all that height.
00:49:51
◼
►
Like, I could spare that pretty easily.
00:49:53
◼
►
So it would mainly just be giving up width,
00:49:55
◼
►
which would indeed make it significantly more holdable
00:49:58
◼
►
and would give you a lot more like touch range,
00:50:01
◼
►
you know, holding it and touching it.
00:50:03
◼
►
But my concern with giving up the width would be
00:50:06
◼
►
when you squeeze the keyboard down,
00:50:09
◼
►
it's going to be a transition period for keyboard accuracy.
00:50:13
◼
►
And possibly not a good one. (laughs)
00:50:16
◼
►
- Well, but let's be honest,
00:50:17
◼
►
keyboard accuracy hasn't really existed
00:50:19
◼
►
since ML took over AutoCorrect.
00:50:21
◼
►
So, I mean, it can only go up.
00:50:23
◼
►
- They should just do what they do with the laptop keyboards
00:50:26
◼
►
and just make it so there's one size keyboard
00:50:28
◼
►
and it's the one that fits on their smallest phone
00:50:29
◼
►
and use that software keyboard on all the phones.
00:50:32
◼
►
And they just put dots on the left and the right.
00:50:34
◼
►
- Oh, god, earlier today I typed in Thursdays
00:50:37
◼
►
and it put an apostrophe on it.
00:50:39
◼
►
Thursday apostrophe S.
00:50:41
◼
►
- Thursday's child is full of woe?
00:50:44
◼
►
Come on, chat room, what is Thursday's child full of?
00:50:46
◼
►
- John, why'd he do this?
00:50:47
◼
►
- I got nothing on that one.
00:50:48
◼
►
- These two don't know what I'm talking about.
00:50:49
◼
►
I am relying on a title in the chat room.
00:50:51
◼
►
We'll have some real time follow up soon
00:50:52
◼
►
if someone finds the answer.
00:50:54
◼
►
- Yeah, it's like, who puts apostrophes?
00:50:57
◼
►
I don't want my correct grammar
00:51:00
◼
►
to be AutoCorrected to be incorrect.
00:51:02
◼
►
- You know, the thing of it is, it just occurred to me,
00:51:03
◼
►
I don't know why I just thought of this,
00:51:04
◼
►
but I know that I can turn off AutoCorrect,
00:51:08
◼
►
but it is correct enough,
00:51:11
◼
►
and my fingers are incorrect enough,
00:51:14
◼
►
that I do want AutoCorrect on,
00:51:16
◼
►
but oh my word, if there was a way
00:51:19
◼
►
to turn off the machine learning portions of AutoCorrect,
00:51:23
◼
►
and maybe I'm misattributing this,
00:51:24
◼
►
maybe it's not machine learning at all,
00:51:25
◼
►
maybe something changed in the algorithm,
00:51:27
◼
►
maybe something is different,
00:51:28
◼
►
but my feeling, my recollection,
00:51:31
◼
►
is that AutoCorrect up until two or three years ago
00:51:33
◼
►
was really, really good,
00:51:35
◼
►
and then suddenly, two or three years ago,
00:51:37
◼
►
and everyone assumed it was ML, including me,
00:51:39
◼
►
maybe we're wrong,
00:51:40
◼
►
but suddenly something happened where it got real, real bad,
00:51:45
◼
►
and if I had a switch to just turn off
00:51:47
◼
►
the ML portions of AutoCorrect,
00:51:49
◼
►
I would flick the crap out of that switch,
00:51:52
◼
►
I would turn that on, or I guess off, so fast,
00:51:55
◼
►
because I really feel like it's the ML that's doing it,
00:51:57
◼
►
like it's a bunch of idiots typing T-H-U-R-D,
00:52:01
◼
►
Thursday apostrophe S, I got myself,
00:52:04
◼
►
see I'm the idiot now, right?
00:52:05
◼
►
Anyway, the point is,
00:52:06
◼
►
it's a bunch of idiots typing Thursday apostrophe S
00:52:08
◼
►
instead of Thursday S,
00:52:09
◼
►
and then the ML engine picks that up,
00:52:11
◼
►
and then all of a sudden now we're getting it.
00:52:13
◼
►
- Right, it's like no,
00:52:14
◼
►
and I understand,
00:52:16
◼
►
I am probably benefiting from much of what that ML engine
00:52:20
◼
►
is adding to the dictionary,
00:52:22
◼
►
but when it gets it wrong,
00:52:24
◼
►
it's just like I'm being failed,
00:52:26
◼
►
like many other things,
00:52:27
◼
►
I'm being failed by the collective idiocy
00:52:30
◼
►
of the rest of humanity here,
00:52:31
◼
►
like I am right, they are wrong,
00:52:34
◼
►
and they're making my life worse as a result.
00:52:37
◼
►
- Related, please vote.
00:52:38
◼
►
- Yeah, please, for the love of God.
00:52:40
◼
►
- Real time problem on what children are filled with,
00:52:42
◼
►
Monday's child is fair of face,
00:52:44
◼
►
Tuesday's child is full of grace,
00:52:46
◼
►
Wednesday's child is full of woe,
00:52:48
◼
►
but Thursday's child has far to go.
00:52:51
◼
►
- What in the crap are you talking about?
00:52:53
◼
►
- Is this a Destiny thing?
00:52:54
◼
►
- Yeah, seriously,
00:52:55
◼
►
is it either Destiny, Church, or some obscure song?
00:52:57
◼
►
- It is not Destiny or Church.
00:52:59
◼
►
- I think it's sports.
00:53:00
◼
►
- No, it's not sports.
00:53:01
◼
►
- Interesting guesses.
00:53:02
◼
►
I'll put a screenshot, by the way,
00:53:04
◼
►
for you two in the Slack.
00:53:06
◼
►
So like in our,
00:53:07
◼
►
I don't understand this,
00:53:09
◼
►
is this a GPU problem,
00:53:11
◼
►
is this, in our show notes,
00:53:13
◼
►
we have the picture from the invitation for the Apple event,
00:53:15
◼
►
which I swear we'll get to in a second or two,
00:53:17
◼
►
like the invitation that says high comma speed, right,
00:53:21
◼
►
that one, right?
00:53:22
◼
►
That's in our Google Doc,
00:53:23
◼
►
pasted as an image in the Google Doc, right?
00:53:26
◼
►
So I opened another browser window
00:53:28
◼
►
to search for the Thursday's child answer,
00:53:30
◼
►
and I found it,
00:53:31
◼
►
and would you two please look at the screenshot,
00:53:34
◼
►
which contains, in the background is my Google Doc window,
00:53:36
◼
►
and in the foreground is my browser window,
00:53:38
◼
►
what in the hell is that?
00:53:40
◼
►
- So in the Google AdSense boxes,
00:53:43
◼
►
on this unrelated page--
00:53:45
◼
►
- The two Google AdSense boxes.
00:53:47
◼
►
- Yeah, on two Google AdSense medium rectangle units,
00:53:49
◼
►
on the right sidebar of this page,
00:53:52
◼
►
it's showing the high comma speed Apple invitation image,
00:53:57
◼
►
with a little Google Ad choices X and forward arrow
00:54:00
◼
►
on the upper right corner.
00:54:02
◼
►
I guess instead of an ad, or--
00:54:04
◼
►
- Is this an ad, what happened to you?
00:54:05
◼
►
- Is it because I opened the email,
00:54:07
◼
►
and there was a tiny one pixel image tracker that Apple,
00:54:10
◼
►
'cause I didn't go to the Apple's website.
00:54:12
◼
►
Yes, I did copy and paste the image out of Gmail,
00:54:14
◼
►
but now when I go to a random webpage,
00:54:16
◼
►
I see two copies of the high speed Apple event ad.
00:54:20
◼
►
- What happens if you click on it?
00:54:22
◼
►
Does it go to that ad, or does it go to something else?
00:54:24
◼
►
- All right, so I'll click on it.
00:54:26
◼
►
It goes to apple.com/appleevents,
00:54:29
◼
►
question mark, gigantic tracking crap.
00:54:32
◼
►
- Oh yeah, so it's not a GPU bug,
00:54:35
◼
►
it's just incredibly creepy ad tracking,
00:54:37
◼
►
and your Google owned browser
00:54:38
◼
►
with your Google owned spreadsheet thing.
00:54:40
◼
►
- Oh, if I scroll down more,
00:54:42
◼
►
if I scroll down farther,
00:54:43
◼
►
there's a third Google ad containing, you guessed it.
00:54:46
◼
►
Same exact question.
00:54:48
◼
►
It's unbelievable.
00:54:51
◼
►
- I wanna know what code it is
00:54:52
◼
►
you're writing in the background there, sir.
00:54:54
◼
►
- What code?
00:54:55
◼
►
That's not code, what is that?
00:54:56
◼
►
That is, this is using dispatch work item
00:55:00
◼
►
to delay or cancel tasks.
00:55:02
◼
►
An article by Nathan Rolick,
00:55:05
◼
►
which will now be in the show notes.
00:55:07
◼
►
Thank you, thank you Casey, for spying on my computer.
00:55:11
◼
►
- You're welcome.
00:55:12
◼
►
- Thank you.
00:55:13
◼
►
- All right, so let's move on to the event.
00:55:15
◼
►
It's going to be this upcoming Tuesday.
00:55:18
◼
►
Obviously, and we are expecting iPhones,
00:55:22
◼
►
before we talk anymore about a potential iPhone 12,
00:55:25
◼
►
are we expecting anything else?
00:55:27
◼
►
I know both of you are begging for laptops,
00:55:29
◼
►
but well actually I guess now might be a good time for Jon
00:55:33
◼
►
for you to explore why it is
00:55:34
◼
►
you want a laptop so desperately.
00:55:36
◼
►
- Oh yeah, that's just simple.
00:55:37
◼
►
Like we need another one for the kids,
00:55:38
◼
►
they're all doing like remote schooling stuff.
00:55:41
◼
►
And we just have one laptop
00:55:43
◼
►
and then we have one desktop computer
00:55:45
◼
►
and I like to work in the room with the desktop computer,
00:55:47
◼
►
but the kids don't like me to be in the room
00:55:48
◼
►
when they're working,
00:55:49
◼
►
plus I have to be on calls all day too.
00:55:50
◼
►
So anyway, as soon as we get a laptop,
00:55:53
◼
►
I can kick the kids back out of my room
00:55:55
◼
►
and then they can be in their individual rooms
00:55:56
◼
►
with their individual laptops
00:55:57
◼
►
and I can get to be in front of my computer again.
00:56:00
◼
►
I mean, I'm working on my laptop too,
00:56:02
◼
►
but I also like to be at my computer desk
00:56:03
◼
►
with my real computer there.
00:56:05
◼
►
Anyway, so that's why I needed a laptop.
00:56:07
◼
►
It seems like, I haven't been really keeping up
00:56:09
◼
►
with the rumors here
00:56:10
◼
►
because there are many other things going on in the world
00:56:12
◼
►
that are distracting me and every other sane person,
00:56:15
◼
►
but it seems like we're not getting Macs in this event.
00:56:18
◼
►
And every time, like I said, every time an event comes
00:56:21
◼
►
and my house goes, "Can we get a laptop now?"
00:56:24
◼
►
I'm like, "Oh, seems like maybe not this time."
00:56:26
◼
►
But there's gonna be another Apple event
00:56:27
◼
►
before the end of the year
00:56:28
◼
►
and then they'll announce the first ARM Mac,
00:56:30
◼
►
which will probably be a laptop, but we're not sure.
00:56:32
◼
►
But anyway, probably like before the end of the year.
00:56:35
◼
►
So that is the, I don't even care about the new phone.
00:56:39
◼
►
I don't care.
00:56:39
◼
►
I do want a new phone,
00:56:41
◼
►
but the thing that I want before the end of this year
00:56:44
◼
►
is an ARM Mac that is a laptop.
00:56:47
◼
►
And it seems like, according to the rumors,
00:56:49
◼
►
that's not gonna happen at this event.
00:56:50
◼
►
Obviously there will be iPhones.
00:56:52
◼
►
The other rumor that I vaguely believe
00:56:54
◼
►
is about the headphone situation,
00:56:56
◼
►
because as we'll link in the show note,
00:56:57
◼
►
apparently Apple has stopped selling speakers
00:57:02
◼
►
and earphones ahead of the event, like a third-party one.
00:57:06
◼
►
So anything that's not by Apple or Beats, right?
00:57:09
◼
►
Not being sold in Apple stores anymore.
00:57:11
◼
►
Does that mean an Apple over-ear headphone is coming?
00:57:14
◼
►
Does that mean there's gonna be a new, cheaper HomePod?
00:57:16
◼
►
Does that have anything to do with this event?
00:57:18
◼
►
I don't know, maybe, but it seems like, again,
00:57:20
◼
►
if the vague rumors that I've looked at are to be believed,
00:57:23
◼
►
both of those things are more likely than an ARM Mac,
00:57:27
◼
►
and that's really all I care about.
00:57:29
◼
►
- During this iPhone discussion,
00:57:32
◼
►
I pulled my phone out of its case,
00:57:34
◼
►
to look at it and everything,
00:57:36
◼
►
and it's been sitting here since then,
00:57:38
◼
►
like just out of its case,
00:57:39
◼
►
and it looks like, you ever had a hermit crab growing?
00:57:43
◼
►
- I'm aware of what they are, but I've never had one.
00:57:44
◼
►
- It looks like when your hermit crab is changing shells,
00:57:47
◼
►
and it leaves its first shell,
00:57:49
◼
►
and it just walks around naked for a second
00:57:51
◼
►
until it finds the second shell it's gonna go into,
00:57:54
◼
►
and when you see your hermit crab naked,
00:57:56
◼
►
it's the weirdest thing ever,
00:57:57
◼
►
'cause you're really not supposed to see it that way.
00:57:59
◼
►
That's how it feels looking at an iPhone
00:58:01
◼
►
without a case right now.
00:58:02
◼
►
Like, I see my iPhone 11 Pro sitting there without a case,
00:58:06
◼
►
and it's like, ew, where's the rest of you?
00:58:07
◼
►
Put some clothes on.
00:58:13
◼
►
I think you're probably right, Jon.
00:58:16
◼
►
It does feel like we haven't heard enough rumors
00:58:20
◼
►
about our Macs being imminent
00:58:23
◼
►
for them to be at this event in all likelihood,
00:58:25
◼
►
but I kinda hope they are anyway.
00:58:28
◼
►
Like, Apple has been significantly better at secrecy
00:58:33
◼
►
in the last couple years than they were before,
00:58:35
◼
►
so they actually might have all this stuff ready,
00:58:38
◼
►
and we just don't know about it yet.
00:58:39
◼
►
- When I first saw this ad, like the event invitation,
00:58:42
◼
►
before I'd read anything about it,
00:58:44
◼
►
when I just saw it in my email box,
00:58:45
◼
►
which usually this doesn't happen.
00:58:47
◼
►
Usually I see about it on Twitter before I get the email,
00:58:48
◼
►
but this time I actually got the email
00:58:49
◼
►
before I had read anything about it,
00:58:50
◼
►
and I was excited because it said hi, comma, speed, right?
00:58:53
◼
►
I'm like, yeah, this makes perfect sense, Apple,
00:58:56
◼
►
because now you're finally gonna reveal
00:58:58
◼
►
all the specs of the A14,
00:58:59
◼
►
which you kinda tried to hide at the, you know,
00:59:01
◼
►
with the iPad, the previous iPad event,
00:59:04
◼
►
and of course you're gonna have the R Max,
00:59:06
◼
►
and they're gonna be super fast,
00:59:07
◼
►
and then I read the rumors,
00:59:08
◼
►
and it was like, no, don't get your hopes up for Max.
00:59:10
◼
►
I'm like, but it's perfect, high speed,
00:59:11
◼
►
it's all the fast things,
00:59:12
◼
►
and yes, the phones will be faster,
00:59:14
◼
►
and yes, this will be the A14's real coming out
00:59:16
◼
►
in terms of performance,
00:59:17
◼
►
but honestly, the real demonstration of high speed things
00:59:21
◼
►
is gonna be the R Max, right?
00:59:23
◼
►
Because they're gonna be so much faster
00:59:24
◼
►
than the Intel chips.
00:59:25
◼
►
Isn't that what the speed is about?
00:59:26
◼
►
It just seems like such a waste of a speed-related tease
00:59:30
◼
►
to only be talking about phones,
00:59:32
◼
►
which I feel like phones in general
00:59:34
◼
►
are a place where, you know,
00:59:35
◼
►
we love that iPhones are fast and everything,
00:59:38
◼
►
but we're at the point now
00:59:40
◼
►
where I don't think people are like,
00:59:41
◼
►
oh my God, my phone is so slow,
00:59:43
◼
►
if you have any kind of recent iPhone.
00:59:45
◼
►
I'm not saying there's no point in more speed,
00:59:46
◼
►
there absolutely is,
00:59:47
◼
►
but phones have always been, Apple's phones,
00:59:51
◼
►
Apple's top of the line phones have always been fast.
00:59:53
◼
►
We are spoiled by fast phones, we expect it,
00:59:55
◼
►
and so if you're gonna brag about speed,
00:59:57
◼
►
brag about it on the platform
00:59:58
◼
►
that has had some speed challenges, let's say,
01:00:01
◼
►
over the last several years due to Intel.
01:00:04
◼
►
- But all the rumors say no, right?
01:00:07
◼
►
- Well, but the rumors could also be,
01:00:09
◼
►
I mean, first of all, they could just be wrong.
01:00:11
◼
►
We've heard many rumors about this fall
01:00:13
◼
►
that have been wrong so far.
01:00:16
◼
►
- I mean, AirTags have been rumored for every event
01:00:18
◼
►
for like two years now.
01:00:20
◼
►
- Do we already have,
01:00:21
◼
►
sometimes I forget if we already have AirTags.
01:00:23
◼
►
Do we already have, oh, they didn't actually ship them,
01:00:25
◼
►
they didn't actually even announce them.
01:00:26
◼
►
It's just a thing that everyone knows that exists
01:00:28
◼
►
and just has never released.
01:00:30
◼
►
- Right, exactly.
01:00:32
◼
►
So yeah, who knows what, you know,
01:00:34
◼
►
when the rumors say this thing is not coming yet,
01:00:37
◼
►
it's really hard to put a lot of faith into that.
01:00:40
◼
►
That being said, the rumors could also be hearing things
01:00:45
◼
►
about supply and delivery timelines
01:00:48
◼
►
that might be different from announcement timelines.
01:00:51
◼
►
Apple could announce our max, you know,
01:00:54
◼
►
at this event next week,
01:00:55
◼
►
and maybe not ship them until November.
01:00:57
◼
►
They could totally say, here's the first two or three max
01:01:01
◼
►
that use Apple Silicon, whatever you're gonna call it,
01:01:04
◼
►
they can show them off, they can get us all excited,
01:01:06
◼
►
and then they can say, shipping next month.
01:01:09
◼
►
That's totally a thing they could do if they want to.
01:01:11
◼
►
- Yeah, to be clear, that's all I need.
01:01:13
◼
►
That's all I need to get the pressure off me
01:01:14
◼
►
in this household to say, this is, they announced it,
01:01:17
◼
►
and ideally we can place an order for it.
01:01:19
◼
►
And if it doesn't ship until next year,
01:01:21
◼
►
say like, well, we already ordered it,
01:01:23
◼
►
it's on its way in December, but you know,
01:01:25
◼
►
I just need it to exist so I can point to it and say,
01:01:27
◼
►
we're getting that, that'll be fine.
01:01:30
◼
►
- Exactly, so they could do our max at this event,
01:01:34
◼
►
and just not have them shipping yet.
01:01:37
◼
►
You know, there is some question about like,
01:01:40
◼
►
how many events are they going to do in one fall?
01:01:42
◼
►
Historically, I believe that's been capped at about two.
01:01:46
◼
►
This would be the second one.
01:01:48
◼
►
Are they really gonna have a third one in another month?
01:01:52
◼
►
Maybe, they could, you know,
01:01:54
◼
►
these are just like online streams,
01:01:57
◼
►
so they're kind of like fancier press release
01:02:00
◼
►
product releases, so in a way,
01:02:03
◼
►
they could do as many of these as they want to.
01:02:05
◼
►
There's some value in like,
01:02:08
◼
►
conserving or diluting press attention in certain ways,
01:02:12
◼
►
so they wouldn't want to do tons of them,
01:02:15
◼
►
or only one for the entire season.
01:02:17
◼
►
- They should do the Netflix approach,
01:02:19
◼
►
where they dump the whole season at once.
01:02:21
◼
►
They prerecorded all these in June,
01:02:23
◼
►
and they're just sitting there,
01:02:24
◼
►
and they're releasing them one by one.
01:02:25
◼
►
It's like, oh, just dump the whole season at once.
01:02:27
◼
►
- Just a little binge, right?
01:02:28
◼
►
Here's all the announcements for the rest of the year,
01:02:30
◼
►
and we're going on vacation.
01:02:31
◼
►
- Yeah, exactly.
01:02:32
◼
►
So, you know, we'll see what it actually is,
01:02:36
◼
►
but I'm thinking, I wouldn't rule out
01:02:39
◼
►
the other products besides iPhones,
01:02:40
◼
►
like, 'cause otherwise, you know,
01:02:42
◼
►
look at like what's expected, what's left.
01:02:44
◼
►
It's basically iPhones and our Macs as like,
01:02:50
◼
►
the definite things that we know
01:02:51
◼
►
are gonna happen this fall,
01:02:52
◼
►
'cause they've told us, basically,
01:02:55
◼
►
and then the likely maybe column
01:02:59
◼
►
includes things like the audio products,
01:03:02
◼
►
which again, I think that story
01:03:04
◼
►
about them being dropped out of Apple's retail stores,
01:03:07
◼
►
that's a pretty strong indicator
01:03:09
◼
►
that more Apple audio products are likely to arrive
01:03:13
◼
►
in the very short term, so like,
01:03:15
◼
►
that's probably a real thing.
01:03:18
◼
►
So very likely in the near future,
01:03:20
◼
►
we're gonna have, you know, the Apple over-ear headphones,
01:03:25
◼
►
the second HomePod, the HomePod mini,
01:03:26
◼
►
whatever that's gonna be.
01:03:28
◼
►
It is, by the way, it's interesting
01:03:30
◼
►
that they've dropped all that stuff out of their stores,
01:03:32
◼
►
because the amount of the real estate of Apple stores
01:03:36
◼
►
taken up by those like 300 to $500, you know,
01:03:41
◼
►
Bang & Olufsen speakers and all the weird like,
01:03:44
◼
►
300-ish dollar, you know, Master and Dynamic,
01:03:48
◼
►
hipster-styled, super expensive headphones,
01:03:51
◼
►
those have historically been
01:03:52
◼
►
a pretty significant part of the store,
01:03:55
◼
►
with lots of the real estate,
01:03:57
◼
►
lots of people usually at them
01:03:58
◼
►
using all the broken iPod touches
01:04:00
◼
►
to try to get music to come out of them.
01:04:02
◼
►
Like, so to eliminate those is actually pretty significant,
01:04:05
◼
►
and Apple won't for a while, if ever,
01:04:09
◼
►
have enough audio products themselves
01:04:13
◼
►
to fill up that, the space that that was usually given
01:04:16
◼
►
in the stores, so it's actually interesting to think like,
01:04:19
◼
►
is there anything more to that?
01:04:20
◼
►
Like maybe people just stopped buying them
01:04:23
◼
►
because AirPods killed so much of that business,
01:04:26
◼
►
like it's possible like, maybe people just weren't buying,
01:04:29
◼
►
I mean, you know, the move from wired to Bluetooth
01:04:32
◼
►
was a pretty big damaging factor
01:04:34
◼
►
for a lot of those headphones,
01:04:35
◼
►
but you know, they switched to Bluetooth models
01:04:37
◼
►
and everything, but still like,
01:04:37
◼
►
a lot of those headphones probably aren't being bought anymore
01:04:42
◼
►
because AirPods are so good,
01:04:43
◼
►
so I wonder if that has something to do with it as well,
01:04:46
◼
►
and maybe Apple is having to downsize that entire category
01:04:50
◼
►
because like, maybe no one's buying
01:04:53
◼
►
a lot of premium headphones anymore,
01:04:55
◼
►
and on the speaker side, I think a lot of that market,
01:05:01
◼
►
a lot of the like, you know, nice home speaker
01:05:03
◼
►
for your phone to play music to market,
01:05:07
◼
►
I think a lot of that's been lost to voice cylinders,
01:05:09
◼
►
and if people aren't buying the HomePod,
01:05:12
◼
►
they're probably buying Echos and stuff,
01:05:14
◼
►
and that probably takes away a lot of the market
01:05:17
◼
►
for the like, high-end, you know, leather wrapped,
01:05:20
◼
►
B&O, $500 blimp thing, you know, but anyway.
01:05:25
◼
►
So, I think the high-speed thing on the invitation,
01:05:30
◼
►
the speculation that it's probably about 5G iPhones,
01:05:35
◼
►
it's plausible, I don't give a crap about 5G,
01:05:40
◼
►
and I don't think Apple would push it that hard,
01:05:45
◼
►
like as a thing, 'cause I don't think it's that good yet, but--
01:05:48
◼
►
- Yeah, it's a benefit that they aren't in control of.
01:05:51
◼
►
Like yes, they will have 5G, and yes, 5G can be much,
01:05:54
◼
►
much faster, but if they sell the phone based
01:05:56
◼
►
on that benefit, and you get the phone,
01:05:58
◼
►
and you be like, it doesn't seem any faster than me,
01:06:00
◼
►
it's like, oh well, probably because 5G is not either
01:06:03
◼
►
penetrated in your area, or the fast version of 5G
01:06:07
◼
►
isn't near you, or you don't realize to get
01:06:09
◼
►
the super high speeds you really need to be really close
01:06:11
◼
►
to one of those millimeter wave things,
01:06:12
◼
►
like, it seems like a weird benefit to sell.
01:06:15
◼
►
Now, to compare, we can say, well, how did Apple sell LTE?
01:06:18
◼
►
Like when their phones went LTE?
01:06:20
◼
►
I think they did make kind of a big deal about that,
01:06:23
◼
►
but they were so late to that, and LTE had much
01:06:26
◼
►
better penetration than 5G, so I mean, right or wrong,
01:06:29
◼
►
when I saw high speed, like I said, I thought of ARM Max,
01:06:32
◼
►
but I also saw the A14, which is very fast,
01:06:35
◼
►
and was introduced already on the iPad,
01:06:37
◼
►
but in a very vague kind of way, so I can imagine,
01:06:40
◼
►
like the reason I thought this would be a combination event,
01:06:43
◼
►
and one thing we didn't mention is like a revamped Apple TV
01:06:45
◼
►
with an A14 in it, is that if you release ARM Max,
01:06:49
◼
►
the new phones, and an Apple TV, and they all have some variant
01:06:53
◼
►
of the new A14 cores, if not the specific A14 chips
01:06:57
◼
►
inside them, that's a great place for you to just bask
01:07:00
◼
►
in benchmarks and be like, look at all this fast stuff
01:07:03
◼
►
we're giving you.
01:07:03
◼
►
Apple TV is way faster than it was,
01:07:05
◼
►
it's faster than a PlayStation 4, and the new ARM Mac
01:07:08
◼
►
is amazing, and it's super duper fast,
01:07:10
◼
►
and our phones, of course, are fast too,
01:07:11
◼
►
and it's all based on Apple Silicon, and blah, blah, blah,
01:07:14
◼
►
but it just seems like that's not the event
01:07:16
◼
►
that they're planning according to the rumors.
01:07:18
◼
►
- Well, it also seems like the A14 is not that much faster
01:07:21
◼
►
than the A13, the initial benchmarks from the iPad Air
01:07:24
◼
►
that are kind of slowly trickling out,
01:07:27
◼
►
they show that it's fast, it's great in absolute terms,
01:07:31
◼
►
but as a year over year upgrade to the A13,
01:07:34
◼
►
it's not that crazy of an upgrade.
01:07:36
◼
►
- I think it's just because we're spoiled
01:07:38
◼
►
by the previous ones, wasn't it like 20% or something faster?
01:07:41
◼
►
- Yeah. - Like single core performance,
01:07:43
◼
►
like Intel is likely to eke out a couple of percentage
01:07:46
◼
►
every few years. - That's true.
01:07:47
◼
►
- And like we're gonna say, oh, it's only like 15 or 20%
01:07:51
◼
►
faster in single core, like the A14,
01:07:53
◼
►
if those leaked benchmarks are to be leaked, is a beast.
01:07:56
◼
►
Like it is faster in single core performance
01:07:57
◼
►
than any Mac Apple sells currently, right?
01:08:00
◼
►
If those benchmarks, and that's their phone thing.
01:08:02
◼
►
- But by Apple's standards for the A chips,
01:08:05
◼
►
like the year over year upgrade from the A13 to the A14,
01:08:09
◼
►
is, it's nice, it's welcome, but it's not something
01:08:13
◼
►
you'd base an event around, right?
01:08:14
◼
►
So that's why I think there must be something more to it.
01:08:17
◼
►
- Yeah, how can you brag about speed, again, on phones,
01:08:20
◼
►
because the phones are already so fast.
01:08:21
◼
►
- Exactly. - Like, I mean, I guess,
01:08:24
◼
►
what I just said is a thing that Apple could say,
01:08:26
◼
►
but I think they won't.
01:08:27
◼
►
Like, at various times Apple could have said,
01:08:30
◼
►
you know the single core performance of our phones
01:08:33
◼
►
is better than X amount of our Macs.
01:08:34
◼
►
Now they can say it's better than all of our Macs,
01:08:37
◼
►
but you really don't wanna slam your Macs by saying that.
01:08:41
◼
►
Like, the real thing that they could brag about speed,
01:08:44
◼
►
though, is GPU stuff, right?
01:08:45
◼
►
Because GPUs are easy to make faster
01:08:47
◼
►
by just adding more area.
01:08:48
◼
►
And once you're putting an Apple Silicon chip
01:08:51
◼
►
in a thing with a fan, suddenly you have the capacity
01:08:55
◼
►
to just shove those GPU cores in there
01:08:58
◼
►
and to get a chip that is just a monster,
01:09:00
◼
►
that again is like PlayStation 4 caliber power
01:09:05
◼
►
in a thing with a quote-unquote integrated GPU, right?
01:09:10
◼
►
You know, the benchmarks were showing that essentially the,
01:09:14
◼
►
I think this was just the A14 that's in the iPad,
01:09:17
◼
►
which is a fanless enclosure, right?
01:09:19
◼
►
With very strict temperature
01:09:21
◼
►
and battery life constraints, right?
01:09:24
◼
►
That chip, apparently, its GPU power is about equivalent
01:09:27
◼
►
to the base discrete GPU in a MacBook Pro.
01:09:30
◼
►
So imagine you take that chip and you give it a fan
01:09:35
◼
►
and put it in a case with a fan,
01:09:36
◼
►
your integrated GPU could be fast enough to compete
01:09:41
◼
►
with many of the discrete GPUs
01:09:43
◼
►
that are offered in Macs today, right?
01:09:44
◼
►
So I am very bullish, is that the right word?
01:09:47
◼
►
I was getting confused.
01:09:48
◼
►
I am very bullish on the performance of ARM-based Macs.
01:09:53
◼
►
But for the phones and the iPads, like you said,
01:09:55
◼
►
it's like, well, they've always been fast
01:09:56
◼
►
and then now they get faster again, fine,
01:09:58
◼
►
but like, I just, we're reading too much
01:10:02
◼
►
into the high-speed thing.
01:10:03
◼
►
Like, they're gonna introduce things that are faster
01:10:04
◼
►
and that is all the excuses they need.
01:10:06
◼
►
I just, I have stars in my eyes
01:10:09
◼
►
about the potential of ARM-based Macs
01:10:11
◼
►
and even the potential of a really fast ARM-based Apple TV
01:10:15
◼
►
to be, if not a good platform for games
01:10:17
◼
►
due to software mismanagement and so on and so forth,
01:10:20
◼
►
at least be extremely capable hardware
01:10:23
◼
►
attached to my television that could potentially
01:10:25
◼
►
play really good games were they ever to be released.
01:10:28
◼
►
- Yeah, but I just, I can't see them having an invitation
01:10:32
◼
►
that says high-speed at an event where
01:10:37
◼
►
the most likely headliner is the phone.
01:10:40
◼
►
I don't know how they would, like,
01:10:43
◼
►
unless they're believing in 5G way more than we are.
01:10:46
◼
►
- I mean, that's all it takes, is 5G is faster.
01:10:50
◼
►
There you go.
01:10:51
◼
►
Like, again, I think we're reading too much into the title.
01:10:54
◼
►
- Agreed, but like, but the title matters a little bit
01:10:56
◼
►
and like, you know, I don't know why they would call it this
01:11:00
◼
►
if it was anything about the iPhone
01:11:01
◼
►
because the iPhone, yeah, it's gonna get faster,
01:11:03
◼
►
but it's gonna get faster mostly in ways nobody cares about
01:11:06
◼
►
and not like, massively so.
01:11:09
◼
►
Whereas the transition to ARM Max
01:11:12
◼
►
will probably make Max way faster.
01:11:15
◼
►
And so to have this event named high-speed
01:11:18
◼
►
in the fall of 2020 when they've said
01:11:20
◼
►
this is when the first ARM Max will come out,
01:11:23
◼
►
how can this event not contain the first ARM Max?
01:11:26
◼
►
Of course it's gonna contain them.
01:11:27
◼
►
- They said before the end of the year.
01:11:30
◼
►
- Agreed, yes.
01:11:30
◼
►
Anyway, Apple, we've decided you have to ship ARM Max.
01:11:35
◼
►
- I gotta tell you, I would love to see a new Apple TV.
01:11:37
◼
►
And I think I've mentioned this a couple times recently,
01:11:40
◼
►
but you know, we have this almost a year old
01:11:42
◼
►
4K LG TV downstairs,
01:11:44
◼
►
and I'm still running a 1080 Apple TV on it
01:11:47
◼
►
because when we bought this a year ago, I thought,
01:11:50
◼
►
oh, surely there's gonna be a new Apple TV in 2019.
01:11:53
◼
►
Why wouldn't there be?
01:11:55
◼
►
And obviously there wasn't.
01:11:56
◼
►
And so surely there'll be a new Apple TV in 2020.
01:11:59
◼
►
Why wouldn't there be?
01:12:00
◼
►
I am ready to get a new Apple TV,
01:12:03
◼
►
and I would really rather not,
01:12:06
◼
►
I mean, at this point I'm just gonna continue to wait
01:12:08
◼
►
until they, I guess they cancel it, airport style.
01:12:11
◼
►
But I would love to get a new Apple TV
01:12:13
◼
►
that's 4K to put on my TV downstairs.
01:12:16
◼
►
So I hope I see one.
01:12:17
◼
►
- AirPower, and there were rumors about that coming back.
01:12:20
◼
►
Have you seen the rumors about AirPower coming back?
01:12:22
◼
►
- I saw a couple, yeah.
01:12:23
◼
►
- Like they just started over and they're gonna make
01:12:25
◼
►
another product that does the same thing,
01:12:27
◼
►
but like start over from scratch and make one that works.
01:12:29
◼
►
We'll see if that ever happens.
01:12:31
◼
►
If that, boy, if that beats AirTags out,
01:12:34
◼
►
I don't know what's going on with AirTags.
01:12:35
◼
►
I don't know what the holdup is.
01:12:37
◼
►
- It's just not the right time, John.
01:12:39
◼
►
It's just not the right time.
01:12:41
◼
►
- They keep catching on fire.
01:12:43
◼
►
- That might have something to do with it.
01:12:46
◼
►
I'm really looking forward to it.
01:12:48
◼
►
I'm excited.
01:12:49
◼
►
I'm not excited about the potential choice
01:12:52
◼
►
I'm gonna have to make with regards to size
01:12:54
◼
►
as we've already covered,
01:12:55
◼
►
because I feel like I'm going to be forced to go bigger
01:12:59
◼
►
and I really don't want to,
01:13:00
◼
►
but one way or another, I'm excited to see what's on offer.
01:13:04
◼
►
Okay, so do you guys--
01:13:05
◼
►
- I love the idea that you're forced.
01:13:07
◼
►
I'm gonna be forced to buy a new iPhone
01:13:11
◼
►
to replace my one-year-old iPhone,
01:13:12
◼
►
and that will be forced,
01:13:14
◼
►
I'll be forced to get the nice model that's big.
01:13:16
◼
►
- No, you're right to call me out on that.
01:13:18
◼
►
That's a fair point.
01:13:19
◼
►
But no, I am curious, do the two of you guys
01:13:23
◼
►
think we're going to see iPad style a touch ID thing
01:13:28
◼
►
in the side button?
01:13:29
◼
►
Let's start with Marco.
01:13:30
◼
►
- I would say it's possible.
01:13:31
◼
►
I would hope to see it,
01:13:33
◼
►
but it might be a little ambitious,
01:13:35
◼
►
because to get that, well, now that I think about it,
01:13:38
◼
►
'cause I think one of the biggest challenges for that
01:13:41
◼
►
would be the thickness of the case.
01:13:42
◼
►
Obviously, you want that button to be as thick as possible
01:13:45
◼
►
to give you the most surface area possible
01:13:47
◼
►
to see as much of the fingerprint as possible,
01:13:49
◼
►
and phones are not that thick,
01:13:52
◼
►
but they do tend to be thicker than iPads.
01:13:56
◼
►
Are they still?
01:13:58
◼
►
I haven't checked.
01:13:59
◼
►
Are they current phones?
01:14:00
◼
►
- No, I'm pretty sure they're thicker than iPads, though.
01:14:02
◼
►
- Yeah, so if it can fit on an iPad,
01:14:05
◼
►
it might be able to fit on a phone, too.
01:14:07
◼
►
So yeah, maybe.
01:14:08
◼
►
I would love to see that,
01:14:09
◼
►
and I would love to see a hybrid model
01:14:12
◼
►
where it's face ID and touch ID.
01:14:15
◼
►
That would be awesome,
01:14:17
◼
►
and especially if you could pick,
01:14:19
◼
►
tell it, oh, just whatever recognizes me first,
01:14:22
◼
►
let me in, so you don't need both to match,
01:14:24
◼
►
or you don't always need face ID.
01:14:25
◼
►
You can just like, whatever recognizes me.
01:14:26
◼
►
That would be awesome.
01:14:28
◼
►
I would love that,
01:14:30
◼
►
but I don't know if they're quite ready for that yet
01:14:32
◼
►
on the phone.
01:14:33
◼
►
I might need one more year.
01:14:35
◼
►
- It seems like something that we would know already
01:14:37
◼
►
through the rumor mills and the leaked cases
01:14:38
◼
►
and stuff like that,
01:14:39
◼
►
and the fact that I haven't heard anything about it
01:14:41
◼
►
makes me think that it's not gonna have it.
01:14:42
◼
►
Like, mostly because, you know,
01:14:43
◼
►
it's like the touch ID on the iPad,
01:14:46
◼
►
what is the iPad, the new iPad Air?
01:14:49
◼
►
- Like, that's not a reaction to COVID.
01:14:50
◼
►
That was planned way ahead of time,
01:14:51
◼
►
and even though I don't personally understand
01:14:53
◼
►
the cost trade-off between face ID and that,
01:14:55
◼
►
it seems clear to me that that's why it has touch ID,
01:14:58
◼
►
because they didn't put face ID in,
01:15:00
◼
►
because it's the cheaper model,
01:15:01
◼
►
and once you don't have face ID,
01:15:02
◼
►
but you still wanna have the full screen gesture,
01:15:04
◼
►
blah, blah, blah thing, you need something,
01:15:06
◼
►
and there's where touch ID is.
01:15:06
◼
►
Whereas on the phone,
01:15:08
◼
►
it's not the thickness that I worry about,
01:15:10
◼
►
because again, the phones have been thicker than iPads
01:15:11
◼
►
for a little while now.
01:15:12
◼
►
It's like how much space is there inside the phone
01:15:14
◼
►
for you to put crap, right?
01:15:16
◼
►
And putting the touch ID sensor,
01:15:17
◼
►
it's not big, like, it's not huge,
01:15:19
◼
►
but it's bigger than a power button, right?
01:15:21
◼
►
And so it makes me think that,
01:15:24
◼
►
like, because there's no reason to do it on the phone,
01:15:26
◼
►
that they've been perfectly happy with this design of like,
01:15:29
◼
►
you know, just face ID and it being fine,
01:15:31
◼
►
and because this phone wasn't made in reaction to COVID,
01:15:34
◼
►
'cause it was planned way before this happened,
01:15:36
◼
►
that regardless of what Apple wants to do or plans to do,
01:15:38
◼
►
and certainly regardless of what we all want it to do,
01:15:40
◼
►
because I agree with Marco,
01:15:41
◼
►
I'd love it with a phone with both,
01:15:43
◼
►
seems to me that this phone is not gonna have it,
01:15:45
◼
►
and which is understandable and fine,
01:15:47
◼
►
but for the next phone, hopefully COVID didn't come too late
01:15:50
◼
►
to influence the design of the next one,
01:15:51
◼
►
because now I can imagine making different trade-offs
01:15:53
◼
►
and saying, well, we don't know how long
01:15:55
◼
►
we're gonna be wearing these masks.
01:15:56
◼
►
If you can, let's get touch ID
01:15:59
◼
►
into the iPhone 13 or whatever.
01:16:02
◼
►
- To be fair, the demand for touch ID on a phone
01:16:06
◼
►
existed strongly before COVID also.
01:16:08
◼
►
There's a lot of people who still don't like face ID
01:16:12
◼
►
and are still holding onto the older style phones,
01:16:14
◼
►
and that's one of the reasons I think why the new SE
01:16:16
◼
►
is the older style, because there's a lot of people
01:16:19
◼
►
who just don't want face ID for whatever reason,
01:16:21
◼
►
or it doesn't work well for them,
01:16:23
◼
►
and so touch ID still has quite a fan base,
01:16:27
◼
►
and I think until Apple can offer touch ID
01:16:31
◼
►
on the high-end phones in some form,
01:16:33
◼
►
whether it's like an under-screen thing
01:16:35
◼
►
or a power button thing, whatever it is,
01:16:37
◼
►
some form of touch ID, I think they need to do it
01:16:39
◼
►
in order to capture the rest of that market again
01:16:42
◼
►
and to get them to be upgrading to nice iPhones again.
01:16:45
◼
►
- Who do you know who face ID doesn't work well for?
01:16:47
◼
►
Because I know old people say touch ID doesn't work
01:16:49
◼
►
'cause their fingerprints are all old
01:16:50
◼
►
and ever-changing, apparently, but who has a face
01:16:53
◼
►
that's a problem with face ID?
01:16:55
◼
►
- Well, people who wear face coverings on a regular basis,
01:16:58
◼
►
that's a big one, and that was a big one before this,
01:17:00
◼
►
and it's just a bigger one now, but that's a big one.
01:17:04
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, I totally agree.
01:17:05
◼
►
They should do both of them.
01:17:06
◼
►
It's just a question of was this the year
01:17:08
◼
►
where they felt like the trade-off in internal space
01:17:11
◼
►
and cost, I suppose, was worth it to get it wedged
01:17:14
◼
►
in there, and given the one device we've seen
01:17:17
◼
►
where they've done this, it's not the high end.
01:17:19
◼
►
It's a trade-off feature, but my finger's a cross for it
01:17:23
◼
►
'cause obviously we all wish it was there.
01:17:25
◼
►
I just feel like I would have seen confirmed rumors of it.
01:17:30
◼
►
This is, again, I'm casually paying attention,
01:17:33
◼
►
but I think casually paying attention to the rumors
01:17:35
◼
►
is a good way to note when exciting things are happening
01:17:38
◼
►
because if it's, maybe the rest of the world isn't excited,
01:17:41
◼
►
isn't as excited about touch ID as the power button
01:17:43
◼
►
as we all are, but that they should be.
01:17:45
◼
►
- Yeah, I would love to see it.
01:17:47
◼
►
I strongly suspect that it won't have made the cut
01:17:51
◼
►
in terms of timing, but I would love to see it,
01:17:53
◼
►
and again, to go back to what we were talking about earlier,
01:17:56
◼
►
I'd love this thing to be USB-C.
01:17:58
◼
►
Do you think, well, Jon, did you weigh in on that earlier?
01:18:00
◼
►
Do you think that it'll be a USB-C phone?
01:18:02
◼
►
- Again, based on the fact that I haven't heard the rumors
01:18:04
◼
►
and the fact that the only rumor I have heard
01:18:06
◼
►
is lightning forever until there's no more wires at all,
01:18:09
◼
►
which could be as early as next year,
01:18:12
◼
►
I'm not holding my breath for it.
01:18:13
◼
►
Although on all of these issues, touch ID and USB-C,
01:18:16
◼
►
I keep eyeing the Giganto phone, whatever it is,
01:18:19
◼
►
the Pro Max whatever, like the 6.5 inches, or 6.7.
01:18:24
◼
►
If you have a 6.7 inch phone, you don't really have issues
01:18:30
◼
►
about internal space for the touch ID sensor, right?
01:18:33
◼
►
And so maybe that makes it a potential candidate for that,
01:18:35
◼
►
and also USB-C, again, I know it's not a thickness issue,
01:18:38
◼
►
but if you're thinking of a phone that's starting to edge
01:18:42
◼
►
into iPad territory and all the iPads have USB-C,
01:18:45
◼
►
you could make an argument that you could just convert
01:18:47
◼
►
the Monster phone to USB-C, but that would be ridiculous
01:18:49
◼
►
that they would just do it in one phone.
01:18:50
◼
►
But I think I would like it to be coming.
01:18:54
◼
►
I don't want them to go from lightning to nothing.
01:18:56
◼
►
I want them to go to lightning, to USB-C,
01:18:58
◼
►
and then maybe to nothing when it actually is good.
01:19:00
◼
►
So I'm a little bit terrified of them
01:19:02
◼
►
just holding the line of lightning for as long as they can
01:19:05
◼
►
and then switching to a pure wireless,
01:19:07
◼
►
because even though I have a phone
01:19:09
◼
►
that supports wireless charging
01:19:10
◼
►
and we have wireless chargers in the house,
01:19:12
◼
►
I don't use it, I'm an old fuddy-duddy,
01:19:13
◼
►
I plug it into a cable.
01:19:15
◼
►
- Yeah, wireless charging is very polarizing,
01:19:18
◼
►
and it's not a clear win for everybody
01:19:20
◼
►
or for all circumstances.
01:19:22
◼
►
Like, I use a mix of both.
01:19:23
◼
►
I use wired in the car, I use wired when I'm traveling.
01:19:28
◼
►
I'm not gonna bring a weird wireless charger with me
01:19:30
◼
►
if I don't need to, and I also use wired
01:19:32
◼
►
when I need a fast charge, when I need just a faster charge
01:19:36
◼
►
or if I'm using some kind of USB battery pack
01:19:38
◼
►
or something like that, it's very common.
01:19:39
◼
►
And then Tiff, she doesn't like wireless at all.
01:19:42
◼
►
She never uses it.
01:19:43
◼
►
I use it on my nightstand at night.
01:19:46
◼
►
People have different preferences and different needs,
01:19:49
◼
►
and wireless charging is not the same as a cable,
01:19:52
◼
►
and it's not universally better.
01:19:54
◼
►
It's better in a few ways.
01:19:55
◼
►
It's worse in a few significant ways.
01:19:58
◼
►
Like, one of the biggest ways it's worse is efficiency.
01:20:00
◼
►
It's terrible for efficiency,
01:20:03
◼
►
and you just end up wasting a whole bunch more
01:20:05
◼
►
of that electricity as heat.
01:20:06
◼
►
So not only do you charge more slowly, which is a problem,
01:20:10
◼
►
but you also waste a ton of power.
01:20:13
◼
►
If you think about if every iPhone in the world
01:20:16
◼
►
could only charge wirelessly,
01:20:18
◼
►
imagine the global power waste.
01:20:22
◼
►
Compare that to whatever gains that you get
01:20:24
◼
►
by not including the power brick in the box.
01:20:27
◼
►
It's laughable.
01:20:28
◼
►
- That's an interesting point.
01:20:29
◼
►
I use a wireless charger on my nightstand, and I love it.
01:20:33
◼
►
I don't particularly wanna go back
01:20:35
◼
►
to having to plug in at night.
01:20:37
◼
►
I mean, that's the first worldiest, first world problem,
01:20:40
◼
►
Well, no, the first worldiest, first world problem is,
01:20:41
◼
►
oh my gosh, I don't want a bigger phone.
01:20:42
◼
►
I have to get one.
01:20:44
◼
►
But the second most first worldy--
01:20:45
◼
►
- You already hit that record.
01:20:47
◼
►
- So I'm going for a trifecta, and I'm on number two now,
01:20:50
◼
►
which is I don't particularly want to have to fumble
01:20:54
◼
►
with a plug at night.
01:20:54
◼
►
It's not that big a deal, no.
01:20:55
◼
►
It's not like an infomercial where I'm stabbing myself
01:20:58
◼
►
with a lightning cable, you know?
01:21:00
◼
►
But it would be nice.
01:21:01
◼
►
I prefer not dealing with it,
01:21:03
◼
►
and it's funny because I think with the exception
01:21:08
◼
►
of when I'm doing development,
01:21:11
◼
►
I don't think I would have a problem
01:21:13
◼
►
with a completely wireless phone, you know,
01:21:16
◼
►
that has no lightning port, no USB-C, no nothing.
01:21:19
◼
►
I could make everything else work.
01:21:21
◼
►
Now, I agree with almost everything you said, Marco.
01:21:24
◼
►
Like, when I travel, I use a cable.
01:21:26
◼
►
When I'm in the car, I use a cable.
01:21:27
◼
►
But with the exception of a couple of things,
01:21:31
◼
►
like CarPlay, come to think of it,
01:21:33
◼
►
but with the exception, I should say,
01:21:35
◼
►
with the primary exception of doing development,
01:21:38
◼
►
I don't think I would really mind
01:21:39
◼
►
having a completely wireless phone.
01:21:41
◼
►
And the last time I tried doing Wi-Fi builds
01:21:44
◼
►
and debug and whatnot in Xcode,
01:21:47
◼
►
it worked, but it was not fun,
01:21:50
◼
►
and it was not consistent because,
01:21:53
◼
►
as with all things at Apple,
01:21:54
◼
►
if Apple engineers don't use it all the time,
01:21:57
◼
►
then it's not gonna be great.
01:21:58
◼
►
And from the looks of it,
01:22:00
◼
►
they are not using wireless debugging very often at all.
01:22:03
◼
►
And so, in that sense, like, in a hypothetical world
01:22:07
◼
►
where you could option a port on your phone,
01:22:11
◼
►
so they have the 12 with the port and 12 with no port,
01:22:16
◼
►
I would absolutely option the port,
01:22:18
◼
►
even if it costs a little more money.
01:22:20
◼
►
- Yeah, I forgot about the development angle,
01:22:22
◼
►
but you're right, like, wireless debugging is terrible.
01:22:26
◼
►
It would significantly slow down on device development.
01:22:30
◼
►
Like, and it's, I mean, if you can imagine, like,
01:22:33
◼
►
how things work with the Apple Watch today,
01:22:36
◼
►
'cause that's all wireless,
01:22:37
◼
►
and trying to build and run onto the Apple Watch
01:22:40
◼
►
and trying to debug stuff is just painful in so many ways.
01:22:45
◼
►
And I have noticed, too, is like,
01:22:47
◼
►
I occasionally do need to use wireless debugging
01:22:50
◼
►
on the phone as well whenever I'm testing CarPlay,
01:22:52
◼
►
'cause my CarPlay rig is wired,
01:22:54
◼
►
so that has to be plugged into the phone
01:22:56
◼
►
as the lightning port,
01:22:58
◼
►
so then I have to use Xcode wirelessly to the phone,
01:23:01
◼
►
and it is noticeably slower, significantly slower,
01:23:05
◼
►
than just doing a straight USB build,
01:23:08
◼
►
and it's less reliable.
01:23:10
◼
►
And that would be a huge step backwards for iOS developers.
01:23:15
◼
►
- But if Apple made them wireless,
01:23:17
◼
►
wouldn't Apple, all of Apple's iOS developers,
01:23:18
◼
►
also now be forced to use this wireless thing
01:23:21
◼
►
all the time, too, and then maybe it'll get better?
01:23:23
◼
►
- Well, no, not necessarily.
01:23:24
◼
►
A lot of Apple development happens
01:23:26
◼
►
on development hardware rigs,
01:23:28
◼
►
where they're not just running
01:23:29
◼
►
on a production phone, necessarily.
01:23:32
◼
►
- The app development?
01:23:33
◼
►
- Yeah, a lot of it's running on development boards
01:23:36
◼
►
or development kits or modified hardware.
01:23:39
◼
►
- I mean, maybe when they're doing the phone app
01:23:41
◼
►
or something, the camera app or something
01:23:44
◼
►
that has to take advantage of the new hardware,
01:23:45
◼
►
but the iOS mail team, I don't imagine
01:23:47
◼
►
they need to work on dev hardware.
01:23:50
◼
►
- You'd be surprised.
01:23:51
◼
►
So my limited understanding about this
01:23:53
◼
►
is that a lot of Apple engineers,
01:23:55
◼
►
now I am not sure, to your point, John,
01:23:56
◼
►
if it's like the Apple engineers that work on mail
01:23:59
◼
►
or the Apple engineers that work on UI kit,
01:24:01
◼
►
but I know that a lot of Apple engineers have,
01:24:04
◼
►
what do they call it?
01:24:05
◼
►
I think they call it DevFused or something like that.
01:24:07
◼
►
They have these special kind of phones
01:24:09
◼
►
where they allow SSH access
01:24:10
◼
►
and all this other crazy stuff that we don't get to do.
01:24:13
◼
►
And I think that that's the phones
01:24:16
◼
►
that Apple will issue for their engineers.
01:24:18
◼
►
And it would not at all surprise me
01:24:21
◼
►
if a DevFused or whatever it's called phone in the future
01:24:24
◼
►
when Marco and me and you
01:24:26
◼
►
are all buying completely wireless phones.
01:24:28
◼
►
It would not surprise me not one bit
01:24:29
◼
►
if a DevFused phone also had a port.
01:24:32
◼
►
- It should have that little port that the Apple Watch has,
01:24:35
◼
►
you know, inside the band.
01:24:38
◼
►
- Right, I don't know.
01:24:39
◼
►
But it's funny because we're not for development in CarPlay.
01:24:44
◼
►
I think I would be all in on a completely wireless phone,
01:24:47
◼
►
like, because presumably it would be way more waterproof
01:24:49
◼
►
or be able to stay underwater longer or what have you,
01:24:52
◼
►
which is not a problem I can say I've run into often,
01:24:54
◼
►
but it'd still be nice.
01:24:58
◼
►
- I don't think I would have a problem with it
01:24:59
◼
►
with the exception, the big exceptions,
01:25:02
◼
►
of CarPlay and in development.
01:25:05
◼
►
And because of those two things,
01:25:06
◼
►
I would absolutely option a port if I needed to.
01:25:09
◼
►
- I don't see what problems I have
01:25:13
◼
►
that would be solved by a portless iPhone.
01:25:15
◼
►
Like, I don't understand what, like,
01:25:18
◼
►
I can see problems that would be created by such a thing.
01:25:21
◼
►
I don't see what problems are being solved
01:25:23
◼
►
that make that worth it.
01:25:24
◼
►
- That's fair, and I think you're right.
01:25:26
◼
►
- Because you can already achieve amazing water resistance
01:25:30
◼
►
with ports if they're properly designed,
01:25:32
◼
►
as we see with both the current iPhones
01:25:35
◼
►
and with phones from other manufacturers
01:25:36
◼
►
that use USB-C and headphone jacks that are waterproof.
01:25:39
◼
►
Like, this can be done.
01:25:41
◼
►
It's not, the port,
01:25:42
◼
►
I just don't see good reasons to go portless.
01:25:47
◼
►
To go portless on a phone,
01:25:49
◼
►
because wireless charging is not good enough,
01:25:51
◼
►
communication is not good enough,
01:25:53
◼
►
it shuts down so many options,
01:25:54
◼
►
it cuts off all peripherals.
01:25:55
◼
►
Like, it's a weird thing to do as the only option
01:25:58
◼
►
because it seems to have almost no upside,
01:26:02
◼
►
but pretty substantial downsides.
01:26:04
◼
►
- It's a problem that Apple has,
01:26:06
◼
►
because Apple has the problems
01:26:08
◼
►
of all of its customers in aggregate.
01:26:10
◼
►
Us as individual customers might not have
01:26:12
◼
►
this particular problem,
01:26:13
◼
►
but what I'm thinking of is crap getting in the port, right?
01:26:15
◼
►
How many Apple Store visits are people picking lint
01:26:19
◼
►
out of their ports?
01:26:20
◼
►
And now you may say,
01:26:21
◼
►
"Well, you don't need to pick lint out of the port
01:26:22
◼
►
"because you can always do everything wireless."
01:26:24
◼
►
But because the port exists,
01:26:26
◼
►
and people want to use it rightfully,
01:26:27
◼
►
because it's a feature of their phone,
01:26:30
◼
►
when it stops working,
01:26:31
◼
►
they think their phone is broken, and it is in a way,
01:26:34
◼
►
and so needs to come in and get it cleaned out.
01:26:36
◼
►
Now, only Apple knows what are those numbers like.
01:26:38
◼
►
Is this really an epidemic of like,
01:26:40
◼
►
50% of the visits to the Apple Store
01:26:42
◼
►
are belly button lint picking from ports, right?
01:26:44
◼
►
Anecdotally, I know plenty of people
01:26:46
◼
►
whose ports get filled with gunk,
01:26:47
◼
►
and then they stop charging,
01:26:49
◼
►
both on iPads and on iPhones, and so on and so forth.
01:26:51
◼
►
Now, I've never had that problem individually,
01:26:53
◼
►
and it sounds like you two haven't either,
01:26:54
◼
►
but Apple writ large may have that problem.
01:26:57
◼
►
And when I say Apple has the problem,
01:26:58
◼
►
it's not, you know, the problem Apple has is like,
01:27:00
◼
►
"Oh, I don't want to pay to manufacture a little port,
01:27:03
◼
►
"like some sort of cost things."
01:27:04
◼
►
But in this case, it's a problem
01:27:06
◼
►
that may be prevalent in Apple's customer base,
01:27:09
◼
►
and give people lower satisfaction on the phone,
01:27:11
◼
►
and take time in Apple Stores, and so on and so forth.
01:27:12
◼
►
That's the only thing I can think of
01:27:14
◼
►
in terms of, you know, other than the basic simplification,
01:27:17
◼
►
we have to drill one less hole,
01:27:18
◼
►
we have slightly more room inside the case now.
01:27:21
◼
►
Like, those are all very tiny,
01:27:23
◼
►
although real gains for Apple alone.
01:27:25
◼
►
But the potential gain for customers is,
01:27:27
◼
►
don't worry about getting lint
01:27:28
◼
►
in your little phone belly button anymore,
01:27:30
◼
►
'cause there ain't no belly button.
01:27:31
◼
►
- I was gonna say, to your point, John,
01:27:34
◼
►
that when Marco was saying, "What is this solving?"
01:27:37
◼
►
that's when all of the Apple geniuses
01:27:38
◼
►
that listen to us start writing in saying,
01:27:40
◼
►
"You don't even know how often this is a problem."
01:27:44
◼
►
- So what if it's a problem?
01:27:45
◼
►
People drop their phones and shatter the screens all the time
01:27:47
◼
►
so the next phone out of a screen?
01:27:49
◼
►
- I mean, but they're trying to work on that too,
01:27:50
◼
►
by making it, you know, I don't know how big of a problem
01:27:52
◼
►
it is, but like, that is the benefit I can think of
01:27:55
◼
►
of not having a port.
01:27:56
◼
►
Now, the question is, okay, but there are also drawbacks.
01:27:59
◼
►
Your phone charges slower, it gets hotter,
01:28:01
◼
►
reduces the battery life because the heat damages the battery,
01:28:04
◼
►
yada yada, are the trade-offs worth it?
01:28:06
◼
►
I don't think that's clear at all,
01:28:07
◼
►
but I can think of at least one benefit in that column,
01:28:10
◼
►
to balance against all the other bad things
01:28:12
◼
►
that we just described.
01:28:14
◼
►
- Oh, sure, yeah, like, there's totally like a, you know,
01:28:16
◼
►
Apple saves money in various ways angle to that, no question.
01:28:21
◼
►
- Excuse me, excuse me, it's not Apple saving money,
01:28:23
◼
►
it's Apple doing good for the environment,
01:28:24
◼
►
thank you very much.
01:28:25
◼
►
- Yeah, with their sealed up, unrepairable device.
01:28:28
◼
►
- Honestly, I don't think that Apple saving that much,
01:28:31
◼
►
I don't think Apple is actually saving that much money there
01:28:33
◼
►
but like, it's, you know, it's the simplification
01:28:36
◼
►
is one fewer thing that can break,
01:28:38
◼
►
and when things break, it's the customers that suffer
01:28:41
◼
►
when their port stops working or their phone stops charging
01:28:43
◼
►
reliably or whatever because lint got in there, right?
01:28:45
◼
►
So I think the main benefit of no ports
01:28:48
◼
►
is a customer benefit.
01:28:49
◼
►
There are ancillary Apple manufacturing pricing,
01:28:52
◼
►
blah, blah, blah benefits, but those are much smaller
01:28:55
◼
►
in the benefit column than the benefit of not having
01:28:58
◼
►
to worry about the port getting gunked up.
01:29:00
◼
►
- So can you imagine, so something I hadn't considered
01:29:03
◼
►
because I have a couple of Qi chargers around the house
01:29:05
◼
►
is that it is unlikely in my mind that Apple would include
01:29:10
◼
►
a Qi charger in this fantasy completely wireless phone.
01:29:13
◼
►
So now, not only have they taken away the charger,
01:29:16
◼
►
which would tick everyone off something fierce,
01:29:18
◼
►
just on principle, but now you need to go buy a 10 to 20
01:29:22
◼
►
to 50 to 100 or whatever, I don't even know,
01:29:24
◼
►
that looks like they're like 10-ish to $15.
01:29:26
◼
►
- I think they would include it.
01:29:27
◼
►
- You think they would include a Qi charger?
01:29:28
◼
►
- Just like they do on the watch.
01:29:29
◼
►
Like they wouldn't have the brick,
01:29:31
◼
►
but it would have the little, you know, thing, something,
01:29:34
◼
►
because they have to give you something
01:29:35
◼
►
to charge it with, right?
01:29:36
◼
►
They're not gonna like, as in a physical thing
01:29:40
◼
►
that you can buy that you plug into something
01:29:42
◼
►
that has power, right?
01:29:43
◼
►
And to be clear, if everyone's listening to this,
01:29:45
◼
►
none of us think this is happening in the Apple event.
01:29:46
◼
►
For whatever reason, we're now speculating
01:29:48
◼
►
off into the future about things.
01:29:49
◼
►
I think it's because we were talking about USB-C,
01:29:51
◼
►
which we also don't think is happening, right?
01:29:53
◼
►
But this is for future phones, don't worry about
01:29:55
◼
►
the iPhone event, they're gonna have wires, it'll be fine.
01:29:58
◼
►
They won't have power bricks, but they're gonna have wires.
01:30:00
◼
►
But I think they would ship it with some kind of solution,
01:30:04
◼
►
and maybe it's an Apple, hell, maybe it's an Apple
01:30:06
◼
►
proprietary solution, that yes, they would still
01:30:07
◼
►
do Qi charging, but there'd be this other Apple
01:30:10
◼
►
manta ray suction cup BS whatever thing
01:30:13
◼
►
that you slap onto the phone in a slightly different way,
01:30:16
◼
►
and maybe it attaches with magnets,
01:30:17
◼
►
so it always goes onto the right spot,
01:30:19
◼
►
and maybe it's really small, you know what I mean?
01:30:21
◼
►
But there's still no actual port there,
01:30:22
◼
►
and it charges faster and doesn't produce as much heat
01:30:24
◼
►
as Qi charging, but there's still no linty belly button.
01:30:27
◼
►
That would totally be an Apple move.
01:30:29
◼
►
Hell, bring back MagSafe.
01:30:30
◼
►
I mean, that had my problems too.
01:30:31
◼
►
But anyway, my mind is open to potential quote-unquote
01:30:36
◼
►
wireless solutions that are essentially a magnetically
01:30:39
◼
►
attached little wire thing that clings to the surface
01:30:42
◼
►
somewhere on the phone and charges it.
01:30:44
◼
►
And having the phone still have Qi charging for the,
01:30:47
◼
►
oh, I stick it in my car and it charges the whole thing,
01:30:49
◼
►
right, because there's room for both of those inside there.
01:30:52
◼
►
- By the way, for the record, if Apple does go to a
01:30:54
◼
►
portless phone at some point in the future,
01:30:56
◼
►
there is no way they include the cable in the box.
01:31:01
◼
►
Whatever your wireless charging solution,
01:31:03
◼
►
there is no way. - That's what I was saying.
01:31:05
◼
►
- That's what I was saying. - No way.
01:31:06
◼
►
- I mean, they do it with the watch.
01:31:08
◼
►
Like I said, the reason they do it with the watch
01:31:10
◼
►
is because the watch thing is proprietary, right?
01:31:13
◼
►
- Yes. - I mean, you can actually
01:31:14
◼
►
kind of charge it on Qi chargers and scrap like that,
01:31:16
◼
►
'cause whatever, inductance doesn't care.
01:31:18
◼
►
But-- - I've never gotten that
01:31:19
◼
►
to work, I've tried it a few times.
01:31:20
◼
►
- I think it depends on the particular thing.
01:31:22
◼
►
But if it is a proprietary Apple faster,
01:31:26
◼
►
more localized heat generation charging thing or whatever,
01:31:30
◼
►
they would absolutely include it in the box
01:31:32
◼
►
for exactly the same reason they include it for the watch,
01:31:34
◼
►
'cause where else are you gonna get
01:31:35
◼
►
your first one of those cables,
01:31:36
◼
►
'cause they don't exist when you buy your first thing?
01:31:38
◼
►
- I don't know, I'm with Marco,
01:31:39
◼
►
I think they would just say, well, it's Qi charging,
01:31:41
◼
►
go get one. - Or you can buy
01:31:42
◼
►
the Apple fast charger for $29.
01:31:44
◼
►
- Exactly. - And actually,
01:31:46
◼
►
like as I said last show,
01:31:48
◼
►
about the whatever it was about the power bricks,
01:31:50
◼
►
if they wanna make the pricing of these phones a la carte
01:31:53
◼
►
and just subtract the price of all the accessories
01:31:54
◼
►
from the phone price, that's good.
01:31:56
◼
►
That's fine for everybody, no one objects to that.
01:32:01
◼
►
But it's not the way things go.
01:32:04
◼
►
So they keep the price the same,
01:32:06
◼
►
but remove stuff from the box.
01:32:07
◼
►
- Yeah, exactly.
01:32:08
◼
►
Record profits again somehow this year.
01:32:11
◼
►
- And even less e-waste.
01:32:14
◼
►
- Actually, I'm curious, do you think,
01:32:16
◼
►
so in the last year or two,
01:32:20
◼
►
there's been a noticeable push on Apple's end
01:32:25
◼
►
for much more aggressive sales.
01:32:29
◼
►
And you see this in a lot of different ways.
01:32:30
◼
►
Like if you're on an email list that they have,
01:32:34
◼
►
they've been pushing increasingly aggressively
01:32:36
◼
►
for you to upgrade constantly to every new product.
01:32:39
◼
►
They especially push on iPhones.
01:32:41
◼
►
If you know any business reps in any of the retail stores,
01:32:46
◼
►
they've been pushing way more heavily through them
01:32:49
◼
►
over the last year or two.
01:32:50
◼
►
Ever since the Apple card last fall,
01:32:55
◼
►
they've been pushing a ton of like,
01:32:59
◼
►
buy through this card thing,
01:33:01
◼
►
they've been pushing through the upgrade program,
01:33:02
◼
►
buy through this.
01:33:03
◼
►
They changed every price of everything on the website
01:33:07
◼
►
recently to put the new per month lease price first
01:33:12
◼
►
instead of the actual cash buying price
01:33:14
◼
►
of everything they sell basically,
01:33:16
◼
►
which I think is, honestly,
01:33:17
◼
►
I think that's kind of sleazy and gross.
01:33:19
◼
►
But they've been pushing so hard
01:33:22
◼
►
on the more aggressive sales angle recently.
01:33:27
◼
►
Do you think they're gonna do anything differently
01:33:29
◼
►
this year in that area?
01:33:30
◼
►
Do you think, is there gonna be any more of a push
01:33:34
◼
►
this year given that we're in such a weird time
01:33:37
◼
►
and maybe sales might be suppressed
01:33:38
◼
►
because of the global conditions?
01:33:41
◼
►
Is anything gonna be different this year, you think,
01:33:42
◼
►
on the sales or business side?
01:33:46
◼
►
- Well, you just mentioned all the stuff
01:33:47
◼
►
they're already doing.
01:33:48
◼
►
So I think they will continue to do that.
01:33:51
◼
►
But I can't, I'm not, you know,
01:33:53
◼
►
they already have the up-to-date thing,
01:33:54
◼
►
they already show you all the prices per month.
01:33:57
◼
►
That stuff already exists.
01:33:58
◼
►
They will absolutely do that for the new phones.
01:33:59
◼
►
So what is one step beyond that?
01:34:01
◼
►
Like, what's the next step up in,
01:34:04
◼
►
what's it gonna take to get you into this new phone today?
01:34:06
◼
►
I don't know what the next step is.
01:34:08
◼
►
I feel like they've already done all those things,
01:34:11
◼
►
already done all the obvious straightforward things
01:34:13
◼
►
to make the phone seem more affordable to people.
01:34:17
◼
►
- Do you think they would ever tie in
01:34:18
◼
►
with the Apple One bundle of something like,
01:34:21
◼
►
you know, you pay, kind of like what the new Xbox has.
01:34:24
◼
►
Like, you pay whatever this price is,
01:34:27
◼
►
and you're basically buying a services
01:34:30
◼
►
and iPhone bundle together.
01:34:32
◼
►
- I mean, there's no reason they can't do that,
01:34:34
◼
►
but historically what they've done is the opposite,
01:34:36
◼
►
which is you buy a new Apple thing
01:34:37
◼
►
that we really want you to buy,
01:34:38
◼
►
and you get a free year of whatever service
01:34:40
◼
►
we're currently pushing.
01:34:41
◼
►
- Right, yeah.
01:34:43
◼
►
- So, I mean, yeah, I think that kind of deal
01:34:45
◼
►
makes perfect sense, although at a certain point
01:34:47
◼
►
when you start bundling things together,
01:34:49
◼
►
there's a point of diminishing returns where you're like,
01:34:52
◼
►
which of the seven things do I want,
01:34:54
◼
►
and can I get them at a bundle?
01:34:55
◼
►
Apple One is already kind of complicated enough,
01:34:57
◼
►
so like, it seems to me that they'd much rather
01:35:00
◼
►
have you subscribe to one of their services,
01:35:02
◼
►
and that's why, you know, buy a free Apple thing
01:35:05
◼
►
and get a year of Apple TV+,
01:35:07
◼
►
like it's the obvious biggest example.
01:35:09
◼
►
That's the lever they've been using here,
01:35:11
◼
►
not in the opposite direction.
01:35:12
◼
►
I feel like the iPhone doesn't need anything
01:35:14
◼
►
to pull it along.
01:35:15
◼
►
Obviously COVID times may change that,
01:35:17
◼
►
but who knows?
01:35:18
◼
►
Like, there are lots of interesting things you can do
01:35:21
◼
►
in terms of marketing and advertising,
01:35:22
◼
►
but I really feel like they have most of the big bases
01:35:26
◼
►
already covered, and I think they're fine
01:35:31
◼
►
with the current crop of come-ons, but who knows?
01:35:34
◼
►
- I mostly agree with that.
01:35:35
◼
►
I wouldn't be surprised if there is eventually
01:35:37
◼
►
a merging of the Apple One and iPhone upgrade program,
01:35:42
◼
►
but we'll see what happens.
01:35:44
◼
►
One final question I have for you guys,
01:35:47
◼
►
then we should try to squeeze in some Ask ATP.
01:35:49
◼
►
Do you think that this will be for, say,
01:35:52
◼
►
the iPhone upgrade program,
01:35:54
◼
►
or for people who are upgrading every year,
01:35:56
◼
►
do you think that this will be the shortest amount of time
01:36:00
◼
►
that we will have a phone?
01:36:02
◼
►
Because this is going on in mid-October,
01:36:04
◼
►
presumably won't ship until next,
01:36:07
◼
►
maybe next week at the earliest,
01:36:09
◼
►
but probably the week after that,
01:36:10
◼
►
or maybe even the end of October, early November.
01:36:12
◼
►
Is this going to be the shortest amount of time
01:36:15
◼
►
that annual iPhone upgraders will have a particular phone?
01:36:19
◼
►
Do you think next year we'll be back
01:36:20
◼
►
on the September schedule?
01:36:22
◼
►
- I think that it may just shift everything,
01:36:24
◼
►
because it's not like the conditions
01:36:25
◼
►
that cause this delay go away,
01:36:27
◼
►
or we suddenly get a time to catch up, right?
01:36:30
◼
►
And I think that the main, the sort of target,
01:36:34
◼
►
the sort of unavoidable target for the phone
01:36:37
◼
►
around this time of year is you really can't
01:36:39
◼
►
miss the holidays, right?
01:36:40
◼
►
So September is like, "I didn't miss the holidays, I'm fine."
01:36:43
◼
►
October, you still kind of haven't missed the holidays,
01:36:45
◼
►
and if this pushed this thing out to October,
01:36:48
◼
►
that might've also pushed the next phone out to October,
01:36:50
◼
►
so October could become the new September,
01:36:52
◼
►
until they can slowly shift it back.
01:36:53
◼
►
That seems like a reasonable assumption to me,
01:36:56
◼
►
because October, you still got the holidays, right?
01:36:58
◼
►
I still feel like that is fine,
01:37:00
◼
►
and if the schedule has to be shifted for a year or two,
01:37:03
◼
►
and they could slowly ratchet it back to get to September,
01:37:06
◼
►
if they really care about that,
01:37:07
◼
►
I think that's a more likely outcome than,
01:37:11
◼
►
like, I don't know, I know what you're saying,
01:37:13
◼
►
like, "Oh, you get this phone in November,
01:37:14
◼
►
"and the next phone comes out in September,
01:37:16
◼
►
"and it didn't have a long life at the top of the heap."
01:37:18
◼
►
But that really depends on stuff in the world
01:37:21
◼
►
that we can't really predict at this point,
01:37:23
◼
►
how the planet recovers from its current situation.
01:37:27
◼
►
- What about you, Marco?
01:37:28
◼
►
- I think they're gonna get back to September
01:37:30
◼
►
as quickly as they can, so if it's not this one,
01:37:33
◼
►
it'll be slowly over the next few phones,
01:37:36
◼
►
they'll shift their way back,
01:37:36
◼
►
but I have a feeling it'll be this one.
01:37:38
◼
►
I have a feeling, like, next fall,
01:37:40
◼
►
they're gonna be back on schedule,
01:37:41
◼
►
'cause, like, they don't care when they release the last one.
01:37:44
◼
►
Most people don't buy phones every year, only us idiots,
01:37:47
◼
►
so most people wouldn't care
01:37:49
◼
►
how soon they release the next one, really,
01:37:51
◼
►
and if it's 11 months away instead of 12 months away,
01:37:55
◼
►
like, most people aren't even gonna remember the difference.
01:37:58
◼
►
So it's more a question of whether they can do it,
01:38:01
◼
►
and I bet they can.
01:38:03
◼
►
We are sponsored this week by Linode,
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and when I have used their support,
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I've been shocked at how good it was.
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Like, this is totally right,
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like, you know, you don't get, like, screened out
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by a low-level person first
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and have to, like, fight your way up a chain.
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You get instant responses from people
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who know what they're doing,
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and, like, they deal with your problem
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the whole way through.
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It's wonderful for so many reasons,
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being a Linode customer, but this is really a big one.
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and get started on Linode today.
01:40:00
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Thank you so much to Linode for hosting all my servers
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and sponsoring our show.
01:40:04
◼
►
- All right, Jon, we have three minutes
01:40:11
◼
►
for you to cover the House Judiciary Committee
01:40:13
◼
►
antitrust report on Amazon,
01:40:15
◼
►
and Facebook, and Apple, and Google.
01:40:17
◼
►
The clock is ticking, go.
01:40:18
◼
►
- I gotta be in more than three minutes, but not too long.
01:40:21
◼
►
So we talked about this when the people,
01:40:23
◼
►
when all the tech CEOs were in front of Congress
01:40:26
◼
►
and answering their questions,
01:40:27
◼
►
and how bad some of their questions were,
01:40:28
◼
►
and so on and so forth.
01:40:29
◼
►
So now they released this 450-page report,
01:40:32
◼
►
PDF link in the show notes.
01:40:33
◼
►
Interestingly, the old PDF link 404'd today,
01:40:35
◼
►
and I had to find it elsewhere, but it's up still there.
01:40:39
◼
►
The result of this report,
01:40:41
◼
►
the summary would be basically that
01:40:44
◼
►
the people who wrote this report think
01:40:45
◼
►
these big tech companies have a lot of power,
01:40:48
◼
►
probably too much power, and they sometimes abuse it
01:40:51
◼
►
to make things worse for people.
01:40:52
◼
►
Like, that's the summary.
01:40:54
◼
►
Does this mean that there are going to be
01:40:58
◼
►
a bunch of new laws in the United States
01:40:59
◼
►
that constrain these companies?
01:41:01
◼
►
If the people who wrote this report have their way, it will,
01:41:04
◼
►
but the people who wrote this report currently
01:41:06
◼
►
do not have their way in anything, right?
01:41:08
◼
►
So that is the executive summary,
01:41:10
◼
►
that in general, this is mostly bad news
01:41:13
◼
►
for the big tech companies, because it means that
01:41:16
◼
►
a lot of people, at least one party
01:41:18
◼
►
in our crappy two-party system,
01:41:21
◼
►
think these companies have too much power.
01:41:24
◼
►
I encourage people to look at it,
01:41:25
◼
►
because you can read the first page or two
01:41:27
◼
►
and kind of get the gist of it.
01:41:28
◼
►
One little part that I took out
01:41:30
◼
►
that I thought was interesting was,
01:41:32
◼
►
all right, so there's two aspects of this.
01:41:34
◼
►
One is, like, we need some new laws to address these issues,
01:41:39
◼
►
because obviously our current laws don't address it at all.
01:41:40
◼
►
A lot of these things that people are doing are legal,
01:41:42
◼
►
but they're bad for the economy and bad for customers
01:41:45
◼
►
and bad for everything, so we should make some new laws,
01:41:47
◼
►
which fine, that makes sense.
01:41:48
◼
►
They're the legislature, that's what they do, right?
01:41:51
◼
►
But the other aspect was relevant to the discussion
01:41:53
◼
►
we had earlier about, like, well, current antitrust law,
01:41:58
◼
►
who is a monopoly, and Apple's argument
01:42:00
◼
►
that it does not have majority market share
01:42:02
◼
►
in any markets that it competes in
01:42:03
◼
►
or doesn't have dominant market share.
01:42:05
◼
►
One section of this document says,
01:42:06
◼
►
I'll read from the thing here,
01:42:09
◼
►
"The subcommittee should examine the creation
01:42:11
◼
►
"of a statutory presumption that a market share of 30%
01:42:14
◼
►
"or more constitutes a rebuttable presumption
01:42:16
◼
►
"of dominance by a seller."
01:42:18
◼
►
My translation of this is basically saying,
01:42:19
◼
►
look, right now, with the Sherman antitrust law,
01:42:23
◼
►
if we try to use the Sherman Act on, say, Apple,
01:42:26
◼
►
Apple's gonna say, pfft, we have, like, 40% market share.
01:42:29
◼
►
According to the Sherman Act,
01:42:30
◼
►
we're not a dominant monopoly, so you can't say anything.
01:42:33
◼
►
And what they're saying is, we should consider changing
01:42:37
◼
►
the existing Sherman Antitrust Act to say,
01:42:40
◼
►
even if you have a smaller market share,
01:42:42
◼
►
that doesn't mean you're automatically not subject
01:42:47
◼
►
to the constraints of our existing antitrust laws.
01:42:49
◼
►
That is my interpretation of this paragraph.
01:42:51
◼
►
It is written in a complicated way,
01:42:52
◼
►
and I'm not sure if I'm reading it right,
01:42:54
◼
►
but I feel like that two-pronged approach of,
01:42:56
◼
►
one, we need new laws, 'cause there are new companies
01:42:58
◼
►
doing new things that were totally unforeseen at the time.
01:43:01
◼
►
The Sherman Antitrust Act was written long ago.
01:43:03
◼
►
And two, maybe we should also consider revisiting
01:43:06
◼
►
the constraints that I kind of outlined,
01:43:08
◼
►
like sort of the stuff that was forged in the fire
01:43:11
◼
►
of the Microsoft antitrust file that's saying,
01:43:13
◼
►
do you have a monopoly?
01:43:14
◼
►
It's like, well, Microsoft just owns the entire PC industry.
01:43:17
◼
►
It was an easy, slam-dunk case.
01:43:18
◼
►
Like, yes, of course they have a monopoly,
01:43:20
◼
►
but Apple's big defense is, we're not like Microsoft.
01:43:23
◼
►
And now Congress is saying, even with our existing laws,
01:43:25
◼
►
even when we pass no new laws,
01:43:27
◼
►
maybe we should examine the creation
01:43:30
◼
►
of a statutory presumption.
01:43:32
◼
►
Like, we should look at that.
01:43:33
◼
►
Do you really need to have, like, 95% market share
01:43:36
◼
►
to be considered a monopoly,
01:43:37
◼
►
according to current antitrust laws?
01:43:39
◼
►
So this shows me that a large number of Democrats
01:43:44
◼
►
in Congress really, really think that these companies
01:43:47
◼
►
need to be taken down a notch.
01:43:49
◼
►
Will they be successful?
01:43:51
◼
►
Will this happen?
01:43:52
◼
►
In general, making any new laws or, you know,
01:43:56
◼
►
that constrain the richest companies in the world
01:43:59
◼
►
usually requires many, many more people to die.
01:44:01
◼
►
I mean, look how long it took to get laws
01:44:04
◼
►
to constrain, like, tobacco companies, right?
01:44:07
◼
►
It's just, it is not easy, not easy to get,
01:44:11
◼
►
in our current system of government,
01:44:13
◼
►
to get new laws constraining the richest,
01:44:15
◼
►
most powerful companies in the world,
01:44:16
◼
►
because there's so much working against it
01:44:18
◼
►
in our terrible broken system of government, right?
01:44:20
◼
►
But this report was an entirely one-sided declaration
01:44:25
◼
►
that, boy, if a bunch of people have their way,
01:44:30
◼
►
tech companies, you will be newly constrained
01:44:33
◼
►
in some potentially minor way in the future.
01:44:36
◼
►
That's it, that's my summary.
01:44:38
◼
►
- That actually wasn't bad.
01:44:40
◼
►
All right, Ask ATP, Andy writes,
01:44:42
◼
►
"What's the deal with disk images?
01:44:44
◼
►
"Why were they introduced, and more importantly,
01:44:46
◼
►
"why do they still exist?
01:44:47
◼
►
"I know people who've gotten Macs
01:44:48
◼
►
"and just booted apps like Steam
01:44:50
◼
►
"directly from their disk image
01:44:51
◼
►
"until they asked me to help them out.
01:44:52
◼
►
"What's going on with that, John?"
01:44:55
◼
►
- So disk images originally existed
01:44:57
◼
►
because Mac file system could support more kinds of,
01:45:02
◼
►
you know, metadata, resource forks, stuff like that,
01:45:05
◼
►
than could exist on other systems.
01:45:07
◼
►
So if you wanted to take a bunch of Mac stuff,
01:45:10
◼
►
say an application that itself has, you know,
01:45:13
◼
►
finder attributes and resource forks
01:45:15
◼
►
and type and creator codes and all sorts of crap like that,
01:45:18
◼
►
and you wanted to transport that safely
01:45:19
◼
►
across any other system, you would have to package it up
01:45:23
◼
►
in a way to essentially flatten it, right?
01:45:25
◼
►
And one of the ways that you can do that
01:45:27
◼
►
is if you have a disk image system,
01:45:29
◼
►
which is basically a little file on disk
01:45:30
◼
►
that you can open and will be mounted
01:45:32
◼
►
as if it is a Mac volume,
01:45:34
◼
►
that disk image can be a flat file,
01:45:37
◼
►
but within it, once it mounts it as a disk image in the OS,
01:45:40
◼
►
the OS sees the entire rich file system, right?
01:45:43
◼
►
I don't think that's why disk images were created,
01:45:45
◼
►
but that's one of the reasons they still hang around, right?
01:45:47
◼
►
Second thing is, disk images are just plain cool.
01:45:50
◼
►
You can take a file and use it as a disk.
01:45:52
◼
►
You can make an image of an existing disk
01:45:54
◼
►
and save it as a file, and you're like,
01:45:55
◼
►
it's a cool thing to be able to do.
01:45:58
◼
►
I remember showing people disk images back in the DOS days,
01:46:00
◼
►
and it would blow their little minds,
01:46:01
◼
►
'cause it is just--
01:46:03
◼
►
- Why the little minds, John?
01:46:04
◼
►
Come on. - Very little minds.
01:46:05
◼
►
Their drives were named single letters, right?
01:46:07
◼
►
Okay, and still are.
01:46:08
◼
►
Anyway. (laughs)
01:46:10
◼
►
Right, I can name my hard drive whatever I want with spaces.
01:46:12
◼
►
Look, it's got a cute cartoon icon.
01:46:14
◼
►
Anyway. (laughs)
01:46:16
◼
►
So yeah, so disk images are a useful thing to have
01:46:19
◼
►
just because it's useful sometimes
01:46:20
◼
►
to be able to make a fake little volume out of a file.
01:46:23
◼
►
I do it sometimes even today,
01:46:25
◼
►
like if I need a case-sensitive file system somewhere
01:46:28
◼
►
to do something, for example, at work
01:46:29
◼
►
where we have files that differ only in case,
01:46:31
◼
►
and it drives me nuts.
01:46:32
◼
►
If I wanna do that on my Mac,
01:46:34
◼
►
I need to make a case-sensitive volume,
01:46:35
◼
►
but I'm not gonna partition my thing or,
01:46:38
◼
►
yeah, I guess with APFS it's much easier,
01:46:39
◼
►
but back in the pre-APFS days,
01:46:42
◼
►
you'd make a little disk image,
01:46:43
◼
►
and you could make it any size you want,
01:46:45
◼
►
and it can be sparse, so it doesn't take up
01:46:46
◼
►
all that space and yada yada.
01:46:47
◼
►
Disk images are just a cool thing to have.
01:46:49
◼
►
Now, as for why they still exist today
01:46:51
◼
►
in a world where our Mac applications
01:46:53
◼
►
shouldn't have any crap that can't live on the internet,
01:46:56
◼
►
why don't we just use zip files?
01:46:57
◼
►
Well, a lot of applications do just use zip files,
01:46:59
◼
►
but there are still things that disk images can do
01:47:02
◼
►
that say a zip file can't.
01:47:03
◼
►
For example, mount as a volume,
01:47:05
◼
►
open a window that has the stupid little arrow
01:47:07
◼
►
in the background that says drag this application
01:47:09
◼
►
over to this alias, or symlink usually,
01:47:11
◼
►
to your application folder.
01:47:13
◼
►
How many apps have you gotten that do that, right?
01:47:15
◼
►
If you just unzip it, it sits there in your downloads folder
01:47:18
◼
►
and then everyone just runs it out of the downloads folder,
01:47:20
◼
►
then everyone's gotta write custom code that says,
01:47:21
◼
►
hey, it looks like you're running this application
01:47:23
◼
►
out of your downloads folder.
01:47:24
◼
►
Do you want me to move it into applications?
01:47:26
◼
►
None of these are a perfect system.
01:47:27
◼
►
The Mac App Store is better where you just hit the button
01:47:29
◼
►
and you get the app and it goes in the right place.
01:47:32
◼
►
But both of them fulfill a role.
01:47:34
◼
►
And so that Disk Image Convention today,
01:47:37
◼
►
yes, it technically does preserve all Mac-specific
01:47:39
◼
►
data, yada, yada, yada,
01:47:40
◼
►
but you probably don't need to do that anymore.
01:47:42
◼
►
But it does let you do the little thing
01:47:44
◼
►
where you can instruct people to drag the icon
01:47:46
◼
►
into the application folder, which I grant,
01:47:48
◼
►
most people don't even understand what's happening there
01:47:50
◼
►
and it's confusing and you're still left
01:47:51
◼
►
with the disk image that you have to unmap.
01:47:53
◼
►
It's a bad system, we all know it is.
01:47:55
◼
►
But I think that's one of the reasons
01:47:56
◼
►
they still hang around, right?
01:47:57
◼
►
So to sum up, disk images are cool and should always exist.
01:48:01
◼
►
People needed to use them for software distribution
01:48:03
◼
►
back in the day.
01:48:04
◼
►
People don't need to use them now,
01:48:06
◼
►
but they still have some features that people like.
01:48:08
◼
►
- Is a zip file or a tarball a disk image?
01:48:11
◼
►
- No, not at all, because when you sort of unpack it,
01:48:14
◼
►
you get files out of it.
01:48:15
◼
►
When you open a disk image, it mounts a volume.
01:48:18
◼
►
Your computer thinks it has a new volume attached to it,
01:48:21
◼
►
just like any other volume and all the other tools
01:48:23
◼
►
you can use for volumes, including ejecting them
01:48:25
◼
►
and running file system check on them.
01:48:27
◼
►
And the volumes can have different file systems
01:48:29
◼
►
than the file system on your Mac, totally unrelated,
01:48:32
◼
►
not even remotely close.
01:48:34
◼
►
- What about a WAD file?
01:48:34
◼
►
Do you know what that is, Jon?
01:48:35
◼
►
Because there aren't very many games on,
01:48:37
◼
►
there aren't many games on Macs.
01:48:38
◼
►
- I know what a WAD file is.
01:48:39
◼
►
I don't know, aren't WAD files just zip files, though?
01:48:42
◼
►
- I don't think they're literally zip files,
01:48:44
◼
►
but they're effectively the same as far as I'm aware.
01:48:45
◼
►
- I think they actually might have predated zip files,
01:48:48
◼
►
'cause that was what Doom used for its resources, right?
01:48:50
◼
►
- Mm-hmm. - Yep.
01:48:51
◼
►
I don't know if they're predated zip,
01:48:53
◼
►
but I think they are effectively the same.
01:48:54
◼
►
It didn't predate zip, but there are a lot of file formats
01:48:57
◼
►
that are really just either zip or tar under the covers.
01:49:00
◼
►
What the hell is a XIP, though?
01:49:02
◼
►
I would love to know what that format is.
01:49:04
◼
►
Is that really a totally made-up Apple thing?
01:49:06
◼
►
- Oh, yeah, the Xcode zip?
01:49:07
◼
►
- Yeah, I thought that that was like
01:49:08
◼
►
a cryptographically secure zip file or something like that.
01:49:12
◼
►
I probably have that wrong for the record,
01:49:14
◼
►
but that was my impression, was that it's effectively
01:49:16
◼
►
a zip file that's got some certs and cryptographic magic
01:49:21
◼
►
that I don't understand sprinkled on top of it.
01:49:23
◼
►
All we know is that it takes forever to decompress.
01:49:26
◼
►
- Yep. - Yes. (laughs)
01:49:27
◼
►
- The chat room is saying it's a signed zip,
01:49:28
◼
►
which is, I think, a better summary
01:49:30
◼
►
of what I was trying and fumbling to say.
01:49:31
◼
►
- Although I imagine that it takes forever to zip,
01:49:33
◼
►
not just because of the format,
01:49:34
◼
►
but also because Xcode itself contains a hodgillion files.
01:49:37
◼
►
- And also because you probably have Dropbox running,
01:49:39
◼
►
which is using 100% of your CPU while it's unzipping.
01:49:41
◼
►
- No, oh, come on, rookie mistake.
01:49:45
◼
►
Never try to expand on one of those Xcode XIP zip files
01:49:50
◼
►
with Dropbox running, silly.
01:49:52
◼
►
- Small brain after all.
01:49:53
◼
►
- That should be the real benchmark
01:49:55
◼
►
of any new pro Mac hardware, is like,
01:49:56
◼
►
okay, this is all well and good.
01:49:58
◼
►
You can have five 8K streams of video,
01:50:00
◼
►
but how long does it take to decompress Xcode?
01:50:05
◼
►
- All right, Ian Oimatiau writes,
01:50:07
◼
►
as users are starting to make their phones
01:50:10
◼
►
last three to four years between upgrades,
01:50:11
◼
►
do you think it's possible or reasonable
01:50:13
◼
►
for the useful lifespan of a phone to reach 10 years?
01:50:16
◼
►
It feels like official software support
01:50:18
◼
►
is artificially holding older phones back.
01:50:21
◼
►
I don't know, I think I take a little bit of issue
01:50:23
◼
►
with artificially holding older phones back.
01:50:25
◼
►
I don't think that's particularly fair.
01:50:28
◼
►
I think 10 years is aggressive,
01:50:30
◼
►
but on an infinite time scale, you never know.
01:50:32
◼
►
But I do think that it seems as though
01:50:38
◼
►
iPhones anyway are lasting longer.
01:50:41
◼
►
And look at the Apple Watch, the Series 3.
01:50:44
◼
►
Bless its heart, it's still going.
01:50:48
◼
►
So I do think that things are definitely getting,
01:50:51
◼
►
or having increased longevity.
01:50:53
◼
►
10 years I don't think we'll see for a while,
01:50:55
◼
►
but I mean the point is still,
01:50:57
◼
►
other than the artificial thing,
01:50:58
◼
►
I think the point is still fair.
01:50:59
◼
►
Marco, what do you think?
01:51:01
◼
►
- I also, I don't think any vendor
01:51:03
◼
►
is artificially slowing old phones down.
01:51:06
◼
►
I think the software moves forward,
01:51:08
◼
►
and the OS's move forward because they're able
01:51:11
◼
►
to assume things about how modern phones
01:51:14
◼
►
have more processing power and more RAM and stuff like that.
01:51:17
◼
►
So the OS's will always move forward
01:51:19
◼
►
and will always be slower on really old hardware.
01:51:22
◼
►
But the fact that the OS has run at all
01:51:25
◼
►
on the old hardware, I think that letting that happen
01:51:29
◼
►
for a certain period back in your hardware lineup
01:51:32
◼
►
is the only obligation the platform makers have
01:51:35
◼
►
to old hardware.
01:51:37
◼
►
And that being said, you could think about,
01:51:40
◼
►
could a phone last 10 years?
01:51:42
◼
►
And I think to get to that point,
01:51:44
◼
►
you would need two things to happen.
01:51:45
◼
►
Number one, you would need a dramatic slowdown
01:51:48
◼
►
in the advancement of phone hardware.
01:51:50
◼
►
Now we see on the PC side, Mac side,
01:51:53
◼
►
that has happened over the last decade or two.
01:51:56
◼
►
And a 10 year old Mac, as John knows,
01:52:00
◼
►
can still be usable.
01:52:02
◼
►
It's not, it might not be the best modern performer
01:52:06
◼
►
by the time it gets there, but it is possible
01:52:08
◼
►
because phones will get to a point
01:52:11
◼
►
where they are advancing much more slowly
01:52:14
◼
►
as they have been for these last 12 years.
01:52:18
◼
►
I don't think we're quite there yet,
01:52:19
◼
►
but you can see the shape of the curve,
01:52:23
◼
►
it is flattening, it is getting less steep.
01:52:26
◼
►
Phones are accelerating in performance
01:52:29
◼
►
more slowly than they used to be.
01:52:30
◼
►
So that I think has to happen to make this even possible.
01:52:34
◼
►
And the second thing, from a practical standpoint,
01:52:37
◼
►
is that the batteries have to be much more easily replaceable
01:52:41
◼
►
or they have to last much longer on their own.
01:52:43
◼
►
Because the main problem we have that limits phone
01:52:46
◼
►
and watch and laptop lifespan these days
01:52:50
◼
►
is the chemical useful lifespan of lithium ion batteries.
01:52:53
◼
►
They degrade over time.
01:52:55
◼
►
No matter how much or little you use them,
01:52:57
◼
►
there's a certain inevitable amount of degradation
01:53:00
◼
►
that happens just chemically to them that they lose capacity.
01:53:03
◼
►
And if you actually are using them,
01:53:05
◼
►
if you're like discharging and recharging them every day,
01:53:08
◼
►
like you do with phones and watches at least,
01:53:10
◼
►
maybe not all laptops, depending on whether you use it
01:53:13
◼
►
to plug them most of the time, but like phones and watches,
01:53:15
◼
►
you're discharging to some degree,
01:53:17
◼
►
to some significant degree, and then recharging every day.
01:53:20
◼
►
No battery can stand up to that for more than a few years
01:53:23
◼
►
without having pretty significant capacity loss,
01:53:25
◼
►
eventually to the point where the device is no longer useful.
01:53:28
◼
►
And to reach 10 years, you would have to
01:53:32
◼
►
either have dramatically better and longer lasting batteries,
01:53:36
◼
►
which I don't think we really know how to make yet
01:53:37
◼
►
in this category, and/or you'd have to the batteries
01:53:42
◼
►
be easily replaceable outside of warranty
01:53:45
◼
►
by any repair shop or end user,
01:53:48
◼
►
not just having Apple do it for whatever price they want.
01:53:51
◼
►
And that, I don't think, is very likely either.
01:53:55
◼
►
- Yeah, battery, I feel like, is the main constraint.
01:53:56
◼
►
The only thing I would add is that you mentioned
01:53:59
◼
►
I don't think manufacturers are slowing down
01:54:01
◼
►
old phones intentionally.
01:54:02
◼
►
The one instance where Apple was slowing down
01:54:03
◼
►
old phones intentionally was because of, ta-da, the battery.
01:54:07
◼
►
As in, they had to, you know, it would overload the battery
01:54:11
◼
►
and the phone would switch off,
01:54:12
◼
►
so the choice was to run at a slower speed
01:54:14
◼
►
and draw less power, right?
01:54:16
◼
►
The battery is the real constraint here,
01:54:18
◼
►
both the changing of it and the technology.
01:54:20
◼
►
The good news is that there is a potential
01:54:22
◼
►
for new, longer lasting battery technology.
01:54:25
◼
►
The bad news is that the time horizon
01:54:28
◼
►
is not particularly good.
01:54:29
◼
►
It always has, you know, five to 10 years in the future.
01:54:33
◼
►
You know, it'll probably come to, like, you know,
01:54:35
◼
►
the solid metal batteries or whatever,
01:54:36
◼
►
probably come to vehicles before it comes to phones.
01:54:39
◼
►
But who knows, but that's what you really need.
01:54:42
◼
►
And as for the phones, you know, Apple support for OSs,
01:54:46
◼
►
I saw a chart, I wish I could remember it,
01:54:47
◼
►
I couldn't find the link.
01:54:48
◼
►
I saw a chart recently showing OS support
01:54:50
◼
►
versus phone hardware age on Android,
01:54:53
◼
►
and it is dismal compared to the iPhone.
01:54:55
◼
►
Apple supports hardware so much farther back in time
01:54:58
◼
►
with its most recent OS than Android tends to.
01:55:02
◼
►
So I think Apple's doing about as well as you can expect,
01:55:06
◼
►
given the fact that all their batteries are internal,
01:55:08
◼
►
are not particularly easy to replace, and are lithium ion.
01:55:12
◼
►
- Finally, Luke Schulman writes,
01:55:13
◼
►
"We are expecting our first child in January, 2021.
01:55:16
◼
►
We don't currently have a quote unquote real camera.
01:55:19
◼
►
With the newest capabilities of phone cameras,
01:55:20
◼
►
would you recommend buying a quote unquote real camera?
01:55:23
◼
►
What attributes would you prioritize?"
01:55:25
◼
►
You know, I was just thinking today
01:55:27
◼
►
that I haven't used my Micro Four Thirds camera,
01:55:30
◼
►
which is a small quote unquote real camera.
01:55:33
◼
►
I haven't used that in a little while,
01:55:35
◼
►
and I kind of miss it.
01:55:36
◼
►
I kind of miss, in the same way that,
01:55:39
◼
►
what did you guys call it, a tea ceremony playing vinyl?
01:55:43
◼
►
I feel like to some degree,
01:55:45
◼
►
there's a little bit of a tea ceremony now for my Olympus,
01:55:49
◼
►
my Micro Four Thirds camera.
01:55:50
◼
►
Up until the iPhone 11 Pro,
01:55:55
◼
►
I don't personally feel like any of my iPhones
01:55:59
◼
►
took good enough pictures to be comparable to that phone.
01:56:03
◼
►
And I still don't get the really good bokeh
01:56:05
◼
►
off of the iPhone, even with portrait mode.
01:56:08
◼
►
Like it's oftentimes, it feels synthetic even to me,
01:56:11
◼
►
and I don't have the world's most discerning eye.
01:56:13
◼
►
But there's things about,
01:56:16
◼
►
and I'm comparing only one data point, which is my Olympus.
01:56:19
◼
►
And so this math may be different for other cameras.
01:56:23
◼
►
But like the iPhone's HDR mode,
01:56:25
◼
►
so you can capture a very bright sky at the same time
01:56:29
◼
►
you're capturing a normally exposed person.
01:56:34
◼
►
That works much better on my iPhone
01:56:37
◼
►
than it does on my Olympus.
01:56:39
◼
►
And video is much better on my iPhone
01:56:42
◼
►
than it is on my Olympus.
01:56:43
◼
►
And my iPhone is always on me.
01:56:46
◼
►
So in a lot of ways, I would say,
01:56:48
◼
►
no, you shouldn't buy a real camera.
01:56:51
◼
►
But I will tell you, even with my Micro Four Thirds camera,
01:56:54
◼
►
which is way less fancy than the cameras
01:56:56
◼
►
that the two of you gentlemen have,
01:56:58
◼
►
when I get a good shot, it is a good, good shot.
01:57:02
◼
►
And I don't feel like there's been many pictures
01:57:07
◼
►
on my iPhone, even the 11 Pro that I love so much.
01:57:10
◼
►
There haven't been that many that have been like,
01:57:12
◼
►
wow, that was a great shot.
01:57:14
◼
►
I've gotten a zillion shots that are very good,
01:57:17
◼
►
but not to the same level.
01:57:20
◼
►
But the thing of it is, is that the real camera's bigger,
01:57:25
◼
►
it's slower, it's heavier, it's got its own battery,
01:57:28
◼
►
I need to worry about charging.
01:57:29
◼
►
It doesn't automatically geotag all the pictures.
01:57:32
◼
►
There are many disadvantages to it,
01:57:34
◼
►
but I personally still think it is worth it.
01:57:38
◼
►
And whenever we're doing something
01:57:40
◼
►
that's even remotely unusual,
01:57:42
◼
►
which for the last seven months has been never,
01:57:45
◼
►
but when we're going to my parents' house,
01:57:48
◼
►
when we're going on a vacation,
01:57:50
◼
►
I will still bring the big camera out a lot.
01:57:53
◼
►
And I am always glad that I did,
01:57:55
◼
►
because I will always find at least a handful of shots
01:57:58
◼
►
that I think to myself, this may have been taken differently
01:58:01
◼
►
with the iPhone, maybe the sky wouldn't be blown out
01:58:05
◼
►
on the iPhone, but I've zoomed three times further
01:58:08
◼
►
than my iPhone can zoom, or the background blur
01:58:11
◼
►
that bokeh in the background is so much cleaner
01:58:14
◼
►
and crisper than it is, or I guess not crisp,
01:58:15
◼
►
but you know what I mean, it's so much less synthetic
01:58:18
◼
►
than it would have been on the iPhone.
01:58:19
◼
►
And so that is many words to say
01:58:22
◼
►
that I still think it is worth it,
01:58:24
◼
►
but it is a much, much tougher call now
01:58:28
◼
►
than I think it has ever been before.
01:58:30
◼
►
And even one phone ago, I didn't have a XS,
01:58:35
◼
►
but I did have a X, with my X, I would have been like,
01:58:37
◼
►
"Absolutely get a real camera."
01:58:39
◼
►
Now, eh, I'm not so sure.
01:58:41
◼
►
Jon, let's start with you, 'cause I think
01:58:43
◼
►
even though you are extremely opinionated,
01:58:44
◼
►
I think you might have actually softer opinions about this,
01:58:47
◼
►
and let's have Marco round us out.
01:58:48
◼
►
- Oh, easy answer.
01:58:49
◼
►
I mean, this is another one of our perennial questions
01:58:51
◼
►
that we get all the time.
01:58:52
◼
►
Absolutely get a real camera.
01:58:53
◼
►
Like, your kids are not gonna be this age,
01:58:55
◼
►
they're only gonna be this age one time.
01:58:56
◼
►
You will never regret spending more money
01:58:58
◼
►
to get even a tiny bit better pictures.
01:59:00
◼
►
I regret getting-- - That is well-done.
01:59:03
◼
►
- I had a real camera, because camera phones
01:59:05
◼
►
weren't much of a thing for my kids.
01:59:06
◼
►
I regret not getting a better camera,
01:59:08
◼
►
because they were just two and a half, inexpensive.
01:59:09
◼
►
We got a good camera, but not the best.
01:59:12
◼
►
I look back at those pictures now, and I say,
01:59:13
◼
►
"You should have spent $3,000 to get
01:59:16
◼
►
"whatever the best SLR camera you could have gotten was,
01:59:19
◼
►
"but you didn't."
01:59:21
◼
►
I feel like, for memories like that,
01:59:23
◼
►
especially your young child, where this will be the time
01:59:25
◼
►
you have the absolute most motivation to deal with
01:59:28
◼
►
all the dad-sized case you said,
01:59:29
◼
►
"Oh, it's big, it's bulky, it's expensive."
01:59:31
◼
►
When it's your first child coming,
01:59:32
◼
►
you will find yourself, find the motivation
01:59:35
◼
►
to carry around the big, heavy camera.
01:59:37
◼
►
If possible, you will find the ability
01:59:39
◼
►
to dig out that much money from your savings
01:59:41
◼
►
to pay for the thing, just like you're paying
01:59:42
◼
►
for all the other baby stuff
01:59:43
◼
►
when the new baby's coming, right?
01:59:45
◼
►
And then, in later years, you will never regret
01:59:48
◼
►
having a even slightly better than phone camera camera
01:59:52
◼
►
for, it doesn't mean you're not gonna take pictures
01:59:54
◼
►
with your phone, 'cause you totally will,
01:59:56
◼
►
but I think there is no question,
01:59:58
◼
►
the sort of the, this is the loss aversion model, right?
02:00:01
◼
►
What will you regret more, lugging around a big camera
02:00:04
◼
►
and not using it as much as you, quote unquote,
02:00:06
◼
►
thought you would, or having phone quality only pictures
02:00:10
◼
►
of your baby?
02:00:11
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, I know I need to give you a chance, Marco,
02:00:14
◼
►
but one thing that I used to convince myself
02:00:16
◼
►
to get my first Olympus camera was that I thought of it
02:00:20
◼
►
kind of like an insurance policy, insofar as
02:00:24
◼
►
I don't wanna regret not having had the best camera,
02:00:29
◼
►
or maybe not the best, but a really good camera
02:00:32
◼
►
for this time, like you said, John,
02:00:33
◼
►
that you can never get back.
02:00:35
◼
►
And so I think that's a really good point
02:00:36
◼
►
that I didn't consider, and it's something
02:00:38
◼
►
that should be considered, you know,
02:00:40
◼
►
that there's no way to go back in time
02:00:43
◼
►
and get better photos, so you might as well
02:00:45
◼
►
get a good camera now.
02:00:46
◼
►
Marco, I apologize, it's your turn.
02:00:49
◼
►
- I think for the first time ever,
02:00:52
◼
►
I might take the other side of this.
02:00:55
◼
►
- Says somebody who has pictures of his child
02:00:56
◼
►
with a Canon 5D, which look amazing
02:00:59
◼
►
and would not be possible with current phones,
02:01:01
◼
►
let alone phones that were back when Adam was a baby.
02:01:04
◼
►
- So it's a tough call because it's so much
02:01:09
◼
►
more complicated now.
02:01:10
◼
►
Every year that goes by, this decision gets more complicated
02:01:14
◼
►
because phones get better, and they keep getting better
02:01:18
◼
►
and better at more and more things.
02:01:20
◼
►
The iceberg that SLRs or mirrorless,
02:01:25
◼
►
other cameras basically, they're standing on this iceberg
02:01:28
◼
►
and it just keeps shrinking and shrinking and shrinking.
02:01:31
◼
►
And full size or other cameras are still better
02:01:36
◼
►
than phone cameras and will always be better
02:01:40
◼
►
than phone cameras in certain ways.
02:01:43
◼
►
And those ways are significant.
02:01:47
◼
►
They're always gonna have way more resolution,
02:01:50
◼
►
way better optics, way better low light noise performance.
02:01:55
◼
►
Big cameras are always going to be able
02:01:58
◼
►
to capture better pictures in ideal circumstances
02:02:03
◼
►
when you have them with you, when you have good light,
02:02:06
◼
►
when you have good glass, when you have the settings right.
02:02:10
◼
►
When everything is right, the big cameras
02:02:13
◼
►
will always be able to capture amazing shots
02:02:16
◼
►
that phone optics simply can't do
02:02:18
◼
►
'cause they're so much smaller and cheaper.
02:02:20
◼
►
There is a lot of value to the pictures
02:02:23
◼
►
that big cameras can capture that you are just not
02:02:26
◼
►
going to get out of a phone camera no matter what.
02:02:29
◼
►
But you will take so many more pictures with your phone,
02:02:34
◼
►
so many more, and you'll take video with your phone,
02:02:37
◼
►
and you'll be largely looking at many of these pictures
02:02:42
◼
►
on phones where the difference in quality is not that big,
02:02:47
◼
►
or not that noticeable. (laughs)
02:02:49
◼
►
You start seeing these differences
02:02:50
◼
►
when you're talking about large-scale viewing,
02:02:53
◼
►
viewing on computer monitors or printing.
02:02:56
◼
►
That's when you start noticing
02:02:56
◼
►
quality differences much more.
02:02:58
◼
►
But viewing the phone sizes, even the quality advantages
02:03:01
◼
►
of big camera photos are getting less and less noticeable
02:03:05
◼
►
compared to well-done phone photos.
02:03:07
◼
►
And the phone can now succeed so much better
02:03:11
◼
►
in areas where the big cameras struggle
02:03:14
◼
►
or where the big cameras can work if you're a pro,
02:03:18
◼
►
but you have a high chance of making an error.
02:03:20
◼
►
So like what Casey was saying about exposure problems
02:03:23
◼
►
of when you have a bright area,
02:03:25
◼
►
you can capture high dynamic range
02:03:28
◼
►
general imaging with big cameras.
02:03:31
◼
►
It's just harder, and you're more likely to do it wrong,
02:03:34
◼
►
and it might require post-processing
02:03:35
◼
►
that you will probably never do.
02:03:37
◼
►
So there's that whole issue. (laughs)
02:03:40
◼
►
There's the ways in which the big cameras
02:03:42
◼
►
are so much worse.
02:03:43
◼
►
The workflow is such a big one.
02:03:46
◼
►
As Casey mentioned, the big camera photos
02:03:49
◼
►
are not gonna be automatically geotagged.
02:03:51
◼
►
You gotta remember to set the clock right on the camera,
02:03:53
◼
►
otherwise they're gonna even have the wrong timestamps.
02:03:55
◼
►
You have to somehow import them from the camera
02:03:58
◼
►
to whatever your photo collection is,
02:04:00
◼
►
whether it's the Apple photo roll
02:04:02
◼
►
or whatever else you might do.
02:04:04
◼
►
That process is gonna be heavy and clunky and error-prone.
02:04:09
◼
►
It's so much harder to work with them,
02:04:11
◼
►
even beyond the physical side, which is itself not trivial,
02:04:15
◼
►
because no matter how small of a camera you get,
02:04:19
◼
►
it's not gonna be pocketable,
02:04:21
◼
►
and you're not gonna have it with you most of the time.
02:04:24
◼
►
So you have all these, there's so many issues
02:04:26
◼
►
that make standalone cameras so much harder
02:04:30
◼
►
to use in practice, and you just get such amazing output
02:04:35
◼
►
from modern phones.
02:04:38
◼
►
It's just increasingly hard to justify a standalone camera.
02:04:43
◼
►
So what I would say is,
02:04:45
◼
►
if you're the kind of person who loves gear,
02:04:50
◼
►
and you just want a reason to buy some cool gear,
02:04:53
◼
►
and you're gonna actually therefore be motivated
02:04:55
◼
►
to use it when you get it, by all means, get a cool camera.
02:04:59
◼
►
Having your kid is a great time to scratch that itch
02:05:04
◼
►
of I want good camera gear.
02:05:06
◼
►
If you're into it for the gear's sake, go for it.
02:05:10
◼
►
But if you just are thinking like I should have this
02:05:14
◼
►
because I quote should, I think phones are just
02:05:19
◼
►
at about the threshold now where they are good enough
02:05:24
◼
►
at the things that the big cameras are really good at,
02:05:27
◼
►
and they're better than the big cameras
02:05:30
◼
►
in many common situations.
02:05:32
◼
►
Casey mentioned video, I agree.
02:05:35
◼
►
Even though my big cameras are capable
02:05:37
◼
►
of shooting better video in professional hands,
02:05:41
◼
►
in professional settings, I don't have professional hands,
02:05:45
◼
►
and I'm usually not in professional settings.
02:05:47
◼
►
And so in the settings I'm usually in,
02:05:49
◼
►
with the hands I have, I grab the phone in my pocket
02:05:52
◼
►
and I shoot video and it looks incredible,
02:05:54
◼
►
and it looks better than what I could have done
02:05:57
◼
►
in those same situations with my big Sony camera.
02:06:00
◼
►
That dynamic of the phone actually doing better
02:06:04
◼
►
in the situation I'm actually in
02:06:06
◼
►
than the big camera could do, that keeps broadening
02:06:09
◼
►
to accommodate more and more use cases.
02:06:12
◼
►
One of the biggest ones now is in low light.
02:06:15
◼
►
That if you want a photo in low light,
02:06:17
◼
►
if you have a giant full frame sensor
02:06:20
◼
►
on a nice big Sony sensor, full frame sensor,
02:06:24
◼
►
a nice big wide open lens, you can do really well
02:06:27
◼
►
in low light and get an amazing amount of detail
02:06:30
◼
►
with not nearly as much noise as you think you would get.
02:06:33
◼
►
But if you go a step below that and you need to
02:06:36
◼
►
shoot a picture in a dark restaurant of your family,
02:06:39
◼
►
an iPhone 11 will do a better job of that
02:06:41
◼
►
than almost any big camera because it's combining
02:06:44
◼
►
its crappy optics with amazing software
02:06:47
◼
►
that the big cameras never will have,
02:06:48
◼
►
or at least they seem to have shown no interest
02:06:51
◼
►
in ever adding.
02:06:52
◼
►
Even an area like that where the area of low light,
02:06:55
◼
►
you would think this would be an area
02:06:57
◼
►
where the big cameras would outshine them
02:06:59
◼
►
just 'cause they have just simple physics
02:07:01
◼
►
tremendously in their favor with the amount of light
02:07:03
◼
►
they can capture.
02:07:05
◼
►
And it turns out, in a lot of cases,
02:07:06
◼
►
no, the iPhone does better in practice
02:07:08
◼
►
because of its software.
02:07:09
◼
►
In another example, the, oh god,
02:07:12
◼
►
what's the super resolution, the sweater mode called?
02:07:15
◼
►
Deep learning or something like that?
02:07:16
◼
►
- Oh, yeah, I completely forgot 'cause I think
02:07:18
◼
►
I have that off, but I know what you're thinking of.
02:07:20
◼
►
- Oh, you have it off?
02:07:20
◼
►
Turn it on, it's great.
02:07:21
◼
►
- No, but I thought it took away something else.
02:07:23
◼
►
- It takes away the thing where it would capture
02:07:25
◼
►
the outside of a frame using the wide angle camera
02:07:29
◼
►
when you weren't using wide angle
02:07:30
◼
►
and then you could like crop out.
02:07:31
◼
►
- But I used that-- - Deep Fusion!
02:07:33
◼
►
- Thank you, Ash Kosh in the chat.
02:07:35
◼
►
Deep Fusion is a real thing.
02:07:38
◼
►
I wasn't sure it would be much of a gain
02:07:41
◼
►
when they announced it.
02:07:42
◼
►
Again, another area that big cameras usually excel
02:07:45
◼
►
is just sheer resolution.
02:07:47
◼
►
Like if you wanna zoom in and start pixel peeping
02:07:49
◼
►
and you can see that you're capturing way more detail
02:07:53
◼
►
usually with a big camera than you are with a phone camera.
02:07:57
◼
►
Until Deep Fusion.
02:08:00
◼
►
And Deep Fusion closed that gap significantly.
02:08:03
◼
►
The gap is still there.
02:08:04
◼
►
Big cameras will still capture way more detail
02:08:07
◼
►
in ideal circumstances than an iPhone,
02:08:10
◼
►
but the gap is a lot smaller.
02:08:13
◼
►
And so at some point, as these gaps get smaller or go away,
02:08:17
◼
►
every time that happens, you have to ask yourself
02:08:20
◼
►
like is the big camera still worth it?
02:08:22
◼
►
And I have never used a big camera less
02:08:27
◼
►
than in the last two years.
02:08:30
◼
►
It's to the point now where I've mentally decided
02:08:32
◼
►
I'm just not gonna buy any more of these.
02:08:35
◼
►
Because our phones are just so good,
02:08:38
◼
►
we're just never using the big cameras.
02:08:40
◼
►
All of their downsides, how incredibly clunky they are
02:08:43
◼
►
at certain things, don't make the upsides
02:08:47
◼
►
worth it to us anymore.
02:08:49
◼
►
So Jon's argument is--
02:08:51
◼
►
- The correct one.
02:08:52
◼
►
- It's totally worth considering like the kind of
02:08:56
◼
►
you only have one shot at this kind of angle.
02:08:58
◼
►
No pun intended.
02:08:59
◼
►
Where like you only have a certain amount of time
02:09:01
◼
►
where your kid's gonna be super young
02:09:02
◼
►
and you're gonna wanna capture as much of that
02:09:04
◼
►
as you possibly can.
02:09:05
◼
►
And so if you want the camera for that purpose, go for it.
02:09:08
◼
►
But if you're looking at it like a little more pragmatically
02:09:12
◼
►
and analytically, if you're not super excited
02:09:15
◼
►
to have a big camera and to use it as its own thing,
02:09:19
◼
►
as a gear thing or if you aren't like
02:09:23
◼
►
super photographically inclined,
02:09:25
◼
►
I don't think it's worth it anymore.
02:09:28
◼
►
And it's really weird to finally admit that,
02:09:30
◼
►
but I think I'm at that point now.
02:09:32
◼
►
- I think you have two factors working here.
02:09:33
◼
►
One, your kid is getting older and when kids get older,
02:09:35
◼
►
you take fewer pictures of them, that's a real thing.
02:09:37
◼
►
And two, I think it's a false dichotomy
02:09:39
◼
►
'cause of course Luke is gonna have a phone too.
02:09:41
◼
►
Like it's not an either or.
02:09:43
◼
►
We're saying, do you want a big camera in addition,
02:09:45
◼
►
of course, to the smartphone that you already have?
02:09:48
◼
►
You're still gonna have a smartphone for all the things
02:09:50
◼
►
that it's better at and for all the times
02:09:51
◼
►
when you don't have the big phone.
02:09:52
◼
►
We're just saying on top of that, like Casey's scenario,
02:09:55
◼
►
in the situations where you want the big camera,
02:09:57
◼
►
the day of the child's birth, first birthday,
02:10:00
◼
►
vacation, stuff like that, in context where you will
02:10:04
◼
►
be motivated to have a better camera,
02:10:06
◼
►
would you recommend buying a real camera?
02:10:08
◼
►
Absolutely, I would recommend it because you don't lose out
02:10:11
◼
►
on any of the things Marco said.
02:10:13
◼
►
It's just a question of how much you're gonna use
02:10:14
◼
►
the big camera and I think, A, because Luke is writing us
02:10:17
◼
►
to ask this question and B, because when people have babies,
02:10:20
◼
►
they were all very highly motivated to take lots
02:10:22
◼
►
of pictures of them, that is the prime time
02:10:25
◼
►
when no matter how little you care about real photography
02:10:28
◼
►
and big cameras, you will be the most motivated
02:10:31
◼
►
to lug the big camera more than you would.
02:10:33
◼
►
I imagine it fading just like Marco's scenario
02:10:36
◼
►
where now the kids get older, you don't take
02:10:37
◼
►
as many pictures of them.
02:10:38
◼
►
That continues to happen the whole time
02:10:39
◼
►
and then the trade-offs become like, well,
02:10:41
◼
►
I don't really need the big camera but I would say,
02:10:43
◼
►
even today, even though Marco, you are not using
02:10:45
◼
►
your big camera that much, Tiff still uses
02:10:47
◼
►
to take pictures of birds, right?
02:10:49
◼
►
So, you know, it's still good.
02:10:52
◼
►
She just did an Instagram like three times this week.
02:10:55
◼
►
- That's true but that was a very rare thing.
02:10:58
◼
►
- I'm saying is it worth it to have a real camera?
02:11:01
◼
►
Yes, you should have a real camera in your house,
02:11:04
◼
►
certainly when you're having a baby but even just
02:11:07
◼
►
for the rest of your life with the camera,
02:11:09
◼
►
it's good to have one around.
02:11:10
◼
►
You're not gonna use it as much as you did
02:11:12
◼
►
when the baby was an infant, certainly.
02:11:14
◼
►
You're not gonna use it as much as when you go on vacation
02:11:16
◼
►
but it is definitely a thing worth having.
02:11:18
◼
►
The second part is what attributes would you prioritize?
02:11:21
◼
►
Given the trade-offs that you just described,
02:11:23
◼
►
the attributes I would prioritize, the one attribute
02:11:26
◼
►
I would prioritize is essentially sensor size.
02:11:29
◼
►
All other things being equal, the one thing
02:11:31
◼
►
that a big camera's gonna have up on the iPhone
02:11:35
◼
►
is it's not gonna be video, right?
02:11:38
◼
►
It probably still is low light performance just in general
02:11:40
◼
►
but like sensor size, 'cause everything else
02:11:43
◼
►
flows from that, right?
02:11:44
◼
►
Obviously, you don't get a camera that's too big
02:11:45
◼
►
that you're not gonna use it, right?
02:11:47
◼
►
And don't buy one that's super duper expensive
02:11:48
◼
►
but if you have to pick one thing to prioritize, pick that.
02:11:50
◼
►
Pick the biggest sensor size that comes in a form factor
02:11:53
◼
►
that you think appeals to you and get that camera
02:11:56
◼
►
because that's what the big phone has,
02:11:59
◼
►
the big cameras have.
02:12:00
◼
►
They can gather more light through better lenses,
02:12:03
◼
►
they go to a bigger sensor.
02:12:04
◼
►
If you get an expensive camera with a relatively tiny sensor
02:12:09
◼
►
that might not actually be better than your phone camera
02:12:12
◼
►
in many scenarios.
02:12:14
◼
►
Whereas in lots of scenarios where the phone excels,
02:12:16
◼
►
it's thanks to software, so on and so forth
02:12:18
◼
►
but there's nothing that phone can do
02:12:20
◼
►
to get real depth of field whereas the camera
02:12:22
◼
►
with a big sensor and a wide open lens will get you that.
02:12:25
◼
►
Now I still think in low light performance,
02:12:27
◼
►
the phones can do amazing things
02:12:29
◼
►
but what they're basically doing is hiding incredible amounts
02:12:32
◼
►
of sensor noise that will not be as noisy on your camera
02:12:36
◼
►
with a big sensor but if you get a little pocketable,
02:12:40
◼
►
sort of integrated, quote unquote, big camera,
02:12:43
◼
►
it's not a phone but it also is not an interchangeable lens
02:12:45
◼
►
camera with a tiny sensor, that will literally have worse
02:12:48
◼
►
low light performance than your phone,
02:12:49
◼
►
even ignoring any software processing.
02:12:51
◼
►
So if you're gonna get a big camera,
02:12:53
◼
►
which you totally should, prioritize sensor size.
02:12:56
◼
►
- Yeah, I will say, to answer the second half
02:12:58
◼
►
of this question of what attributes would I prioritize,
02:13:01
◼
►
I agree with Jon that if you're gonna go through
02:13:04
◼
►
all the downsides of something not being your phone camera,
02:13:08
◼
►
you want it to be amazing.
02:13:09
◼
►
There's no room for anything in between.
02:13:13
◼
►
I would say you can skip anything smaller
02:13:15
◼
►
than micro four thirds or APS-C.
02:13:18
◼
►
I would even say if you're asking this question
02:13:20
◼
►
and you're a listener of our show,
02:13:21
◼
►
you should strongly consider full frame.
02:13:24
◼
►
There are many good full frame options these days
02:13:27
◼
►
that didn't exist back when we were buying cameras.
02:13:30
◼
►
- Including a new one that's not much bigger
02:13:33
◼
►
than my APS-C camera but is full frame, which is--
02:13:36
◼
►
- Yeah, a new Sony-- - The Sony A7C.
02:13:39
◼
►
- A7C, I think, yeah.
02:13:40
◼
►
Yeah, and I have not been paying attention
02:13:44
◼
►
to this market at all but that even made splashes that I saw
02:13:48
◼
►
'cause it was so small and compelling.
02:13:50
◼
►
- Because it's not, yeah, it's not that big.
02:13:53
◼
►
The mirrorless is really, and if you want
02:13:55
◼
►
specific model recommendations, the current line
02:13:57
◼
►
of the A6600, that's an amazing compromise
02:14:00
◼
►
between image quality and amazingly good autofocus,
02:14:03
◼
►
way better than an iPhone in terms of tracking people
02:14:05
◼
►
and keeping them in focus, which is important
02:14:07
◼
►
once your kid starts running around a little bit.
02:14:09
◼
►
That's a great sort of compromise but if you can afford
02:14:12
◼
►
to go up to the full frame version, either the A7C
02:14:14
◼
►
or the big, real A7R and all that stuff,
02:14:18
◼
►
all those are great cameras.
02:14:19
◼
►
But all those sensor sizes are bigger than Micro Four Thirds
02:14:22
◼
►
and I would agree with Margo, just forget about anything
02:14:25
◼
►
with the sensor size that's not hilariously bigger
02:14:28
◼
►
than your phone.
02:14:28
◼
►
- Yeah, exactly.
02:14:30
◼
►
Yeah, so if you're gonna do this at all, really do it.
02:14:34
◼
►
But there are certainly a lot of reasons
02:14:36
◼
►
why you might not wanna do it.
02:14:37
◼
►
- And also, one quick final note, lensrentals.com,
02:14:41
◼
►
not a sponsor but I've used them several times in the past.
02:14:44
◼
►
You can not only rent lenses but entire cameras from them.
02:14:48
◼
►
And so before Declan was born, I thought I wanted
02:14:51
◼
►
the Olympus camera that I ended up getting,
02:14:53
◼
►
it's in the show notes, but I wasn't sure.
02:14:55
◼
►
I wanted to try it and so I rented the camera body
02:14:59
◼
►
that I thought I wanted and the lens I thought I wanted
02:15:02
◼
►
and I used them together for about a week,
02:15:05
◼
►
like a month or two before Declan was born
02:15:06
◼
►
and I spent some time with it and thought,
02:15:08
◼
►
yeah, okay, I like this, this is gonna work for me.
02:15:10
◼
►
And then I bought the camera and lens that I had tried.
02:15:14
◼
►
Well, not literally the same ones, although you could,
02:15:17
◼
►
but I went to Amazon or B&H or wherever
02:15:19
◼
►
and then I got that same setup.
02:15:21
◼
►
And I was, even though it cost me like 100 or $150 more
02:15:24
◼
►
to rent for a week, I was so glad I did it
02:15:28
◼
►
because that convinced me that it was something
02:15:30
◼
►
I was going to want to use and that it wasn't
02:15:32
◼
►
some really clunky user interface or something like that
02:15:35
◼
►
that would just drive me nuts for the next several years.
02:15:37
◼
►
- Yeah, I too have used lens rentals
02:15:38
◼
►
and they've been wonderful.
02:15:40
◼
►
Anyway, thanks to our actual sponsors this week.
02:15:43
◼
►
Hover, Linode and Mint Mobile.
02:15:46
◼
►
And thank you to our members who support us directly.
02:15:48
◼
►
You can join yourself and get all the cool member benefits
02:15:51
◼
►
at atp.fm/join.
02:15:53
◼
►
Thanks everybody and we will talk to you next week.
02:15:56
◼
►
♪ Now the show is over ♪
02:16:01
◼
►
♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪
02:16:03
◼
►
♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
02:16:06
◼
►
♪ Oh, it was accidental ♪
02:16:09
◼
►
♪ John didn't do any research ♪
02:16:11
◼
►
♪ Marco and Casey wouldn't let him ♪
02:16:14
◼
►
♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
02:16:16
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
02:16:17
◼
►
♪ It was accidental ♪
02:16:18
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
02:16:19
◼
►
♪ And you can find the show notes at atp.fm ♪
02:16:24
◼
►
♪ And if you're into Twitter ♪
02:16:27
◼
►
♪ You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S ♪
02:16:32
◼
►
♪ So that's Casey, Liz, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M ♪
02:16:38
◼
►
♪ N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M ♪
02:16:41
◼
►
♪ S-I-R-A-C ♪
02:16:43
◼
►
♪ U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S ♪
02:16:46
◼
►
♪ It's accidental ♪
02:16:47
◼
►
♪ It's accidental ♪
02:16:49
◼
►
♪ They didn't mean to ♪
02:16:51
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
02:16:52
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
02:16:54
◼
►
♪ Tech podcast ♪
02:16:56
◼
►
♪ So long ♪
02:16:58
◼
►
- I'm finding links to Sony cameras.
02:17:02
◼
►
- Now you got John shopping for cameras again.
02:17:04
◼
►
- Yep. - No, I just--
02:17:05
◼
►
- John, just a second.
02:17:06
◼
►
It's fine, John, stop.
02:17:07
◼
►
- We can talk about the A7C actually.
02:17:10
◼
►
- So yeah, so what is the deal with the A7C?
02:17:12
◼
►
Like what is--
02:17:13
◼
►
- So, Sony has been frustrating me lately in that they,
02:17:18
◼
►
for all these new cameras they come out with,
02:17:19
◼
►
there's always some annoying caveat,
02:17:21
◼
►
and you're like, that caveat didn't have to be there
02:17:25
◼
►
on these phones, and it's kind of annoying.
02:17:29
◼
►
I'm gonna bring up the 7C again.
02:17:31
◼
►
So the 7C body looks a lot like the body
02:17:34
◼
►
on the 6100, 6400, 6600, like my model of camera, right?
02:17:39
◼
►
That's more or less the same size and shape body,
02:17:42
◼
►
which is fairly small and compact,
02:17:43
◼
►
but it's interchangeable lens camera.
02:17:45
◼
►
And the 7C, when you first look at it,
02:17:47
◼
►
it's like, wow, they fit a full-frame sensor
02:17:49
◼
►
in that same package, but it's not the same package.
02:17:52
◼
►
It is actually, it's a little bit beefier.
02:17:54
◼
►
It's a little bit thicker, it's a little bit wider,
02:17:57
◼
►
it's just, it's a little bit bigger, right?
02:18:00
◼
►
And it uses the full-frame lenses,
02:18:02
◼
►
so that makes it feel bigger too.
02:18:04
◼
►
The annoying compromises is like,
02:18:06
◼
►
they can't seem to get the software situation
02:18:08
◼
►
sorted out across their line.
02:18:10
◼
►
So like, they have a new interface
02:18:11
◼
►
that's not as terrible as the old,
02:18:13
◼
►
like two-dimensional menu interface.
02:18:15
◼
►
Like they have a new touchscreen-based interface,
02:18:16
◼
►
but it's not evenly spread across their line.
02:18:18
◼
►
I forget which models have it and which don't.
02:18:20
◼
►
But that's annoying,
02:18:21
◼
►
like you just wish they had it on everything.
02:18:23
◼
►
And those type of compromises are, you know,
02:18:26
◼
►
every one of the cameras has one of those little things.
02:18:30
◼
►
So no one of these current crop of Sony cameras
02:18:32
◼
►
will look at it and say, "That's the one."
02:18:34
◼
►
It's got all the features, it's got all the newest stuff,
02:18:36
◼
►
it's got all the newest ports, it's USB-C,
02:18:37
◼
►
it has the touchscreen, it has the joystick on the back.
02:18:40
◼
►
You know, it has amazing battery life, it doesn't overheat.
02:18:43
◼
►
You know, none of them have all of that,
02:18:45
◼
►
which is frustrating.
02:18:46
◼
►
But the 7C is super duper close, right?
02:18:49
◼
►
The 7C has almost everything I could hope for.
02:18:51
◼
►
My only reservation for it is,
02:18:54
◼
►
it's kind of like the iPhone 10.
02:18:55
◼
►
It's like, can I handle one that's just a little bit bigger?
02:18:59
◼
►
And am I gonna die with these full-frame lenses,
02:19:02
◼
►
like they're so much bigger than my current ones?
02:19:05
◼
►
Or is that what I just need to step up to?
02:19:07
◼
►
Because I've been, I really wanted the 6600 for a long time,
02:19:10
◼
►
assuming we actually went on vacation this year to the ocean
02:19:14
◼
►
and I had to take pictures of kids in the surf again.
02:19:16
◼
►
I lust after Sony's sort of best in the industry,
02:19:20
◼
►
like software autofocus and object tracking,
02:19:23
◼
►
which for whatever reason,
02:19:25
◼
►
hasn't been something that Apple has really either touted
02:19:27
◼
►
or jumped on top of.
02:19:28
◼
►
But if you're trying to catch action of things moving around
02:19:33
◼
►
and keep them in focus, Sony's got the best system.
02:19:36
◼
►
It's the fastest, it understands how to do pet eye tracking
02:19:39
◼
►
now in addition to human eye tracking.
02:19:41
◼
►
It's really phenomenal.
02:19:42
◼
►
It combined with the ability to take many, many pictures.
02:19:45
◼
►
So the 6600, which is just my camera
02:19:48
◼
►
with essentially improved software and in-body stabilization,
02:19:51
◼
►
that may be my next purchase instead of the 7C thing.
02:19:56
◼
►
'Cause I feel like the 7C,
02:19:58
◼
►
I'm not sure if I'm ready to graduate to that size,
02:20:02
◼
►
essentially, and sort of,
02:20:04
◼
►
I think it invalidates all of my lenses too,
02:20:06
◼
►
because none of my lenses are full frame lenses.
02:20:08
◼
►
So I don't know, I can't really decide,
02:20:11
◼
►
but I'm glad Sony's making progress
02:20:13
◼
►
and I'm glad that this camera existed,
02:20:15
◼
►
but I was like 900% more excited about it
02:20:18
◼
►
than I was after I watched all the reviews.
02:20:20
◼
►
- Wait, I'm sorry, this does or does not have the new UI.
02:20:23
◼
►
So let me rephrase, other than size,
02:20:27
◼
►
what are the drawbacks?
02:20:29
◼
►
- I forget which the, other than size,
02:20:31
◼
►
which this had, I think it might not have the new software.
02:20:34
◼
►
I think it might lack the joystick on the back.
02:20:36
◼
►
I don't remember the detail, so I don't want to commit to it
02:20:38
◼
►
'cause I just saw a bunch of preliminary reviews,
02:20:40
◼
►
but mainly the thing that battery that's keeping me
02:20:42
◼
►
is like, I would deal with those things
02:20:43
◼
►
that I've described, even if they're all true,
02:20:45
◼
►
is I'm worried about the size.
02:20:47
◼
►
The good thing is that one of the things
02:20:48
◼
►
that doesn't screw up is in its battery life.
02:20:49
◼
►
Like apparently the battery life is phenomenal.
02:20:52
◼
►
And most of Sony's recent cameras,
02:20:53
◼
►
they've really repented from the bad battery life.
02:20:56
◼
►
Now they just put massive batteries in everything.
02:20:58
◼
►
So the number of shots is insane.
02:21:00
◼
►
So yeah, it's really just the size keeping.
02:21:03
◼
►
Oh, I know the other one.
02:21:04
◼
►
This sounds stupid, but it came,
02:21:06
◼
►
I noted it before I watched any review.
02:21:08
◼
►
And then I watched all the reviews
02:21:09
◼
►
and everybody complained about it.
02:21:10
◼
►
So I'm like, good, it's not just me.
02:21:12
◼
►
The little eyepiece thingy,
02:21:13
◼
►
where you stick your eyeball on the back of it.
02:21:16
◼
►
All of these cameras, all the 66XX series
02:21:21
◼
►
have like a rubber hood that's over the little place
02:21:23
◼
►
where you put your eye and the 7C doesn't.
02:21:26
◼
►
Nor does it have a place for you to attach one.
02:21:28
◼
►
It's just this little stump
02:21:30
◼
►
that you just shove your eye up against.
02:21:32
◼
►
It's like, what happened to the hood?
02:21:33
◼
►
The hood is awesome.
02:21:34
◼
►
Why would you get rid of that?
02:21:35
◼
►
And maybe they did it to make it feel smaller.
02:21:38
◼
►
Like the hood is actually removable.
02:21:39
◼
►
You can take it off if you don't want it, right?
02:21:41
◼
►
Why would they not just put it there?
02:21:42
◼
►
And if you don't want it, just take it off.
02:21:45
◼
►
That annoys me, that and the size
02:21:47
◼
►
are probably the two biggest physical barriers
02:21:49
◼
►
to me getting this phone.
02:21:50
◼
►
It's like, how about I want the little eyepiece hood?
02:21:52
◼
►
'Cause it's rubbery and comfortable
02:21:53
◼
►
and I shove it up against my glasses basically.
02:21:56
◼
►
'Cause they've got the, what is it called Marco?
02:21:58
◼
►
The name of the thing where you adjust it
02:21:59
◼
►
so if you have a vision you can, yeah, whatever.
02:22:02
◼
►
The diopter dial.
02:22:04
◼
►
I shove this thing up against either my bare eyeball
02:22:07
◼
►
or against my glasses.
02:22:08
◼
►
And I don't wanna do either one of those things
02:22:10
◼
►
with a hard piece of plastic.
02:22:11
◼
►
I wanna do it with a soft piece of rubber.
02:22:13
◼
►
So, I mean, this is the first version of this camera
02:22:16
◼
►
and they'll have complaints or whatever,
02:22:17
◼
►
but they fixed so many other things.
02:22:18
◼
►
So like they fixed like the card slot,
02:22:20
◼
►
they fixed the little floppy doors on them.
02:22:21
◼
►
It's USB-C, like everything about it
02:22:23
◼
►
is like they updated all the things,
02:22:25
◼
►
but they made a couple of sort of unforced errors
02:22:28
◼
►
in the design.
02:22:29
◼
►
And the handle is a little bit more shallow,
02:22:31
◼
►
and it's a bigger camera.
02:22:32
◼
►
So it's like shallower handle and a bigger camera
02:22:35
◼
►
and it's heavier.
02:22:36
◼
►
I say this now, we'll see how long I hold out
02:22:41
◼
►
against full frame because that is obviously
02:22:43
◼
►
the next step I need to jump to, but we'll see.
02:22:45
◼
►
It does have all the cool tracking and sensing.
02:22:48
◼
►
The sensor is exactly the same resolution
02:22:51
◼
►
in terms of megapixels as my current camera,
02:22:53
◼
►
but obviously physically bigger.
02:22:55
◼
►
So the low light performance, I haven't seen
02:22:58
◼
►
the final reviews of the actual photos taken up,
02:23:00
◼
►
but the low light performance has gotta be good
02:23:01
◼
►
because it's the same number of pixels,
02:23:03
◼
►
but a way bigger physical sensor than my camera.
02:23:06
◼
►
- Yeah, and it's just Sony's sensor progress
02:23:08
◼
►
over the years is just remarkable.
02:23:11
◼
►
Their sensors are world leading in low light performance
02:23:14
◼
►
and every year they get better,
02:23:16
◼
►
or every generation they get better.
02:23:17
◼
►
So that is non-trivial and it is probably better
02:23:21
◼
►
than low light.
02:23:22
◼
►
My concern for you with going full frame
02:23:25
◼
►
is your love of long range zoom lenses.
02:23:29
◼
►
That is just an area that is just either non-existent
02:23:33
◼
►
or garbage on full frame.
02:23:36
◼
►
You have to either--
02:23:37
◼
►
- Or it weighs a thousand pounds.
02:23:39
◼
►
- Right, and costs $2,000.
02:23:40
◼
►
To get a good full frame zoom lens, it's very large
02:23:47
◼
►
and doesn't have that much reach usually.
02:23:51
◼
►
Usually has less overall reach than what you're getting
02:23:53
◼
►
out of a consumer grade or even prosumer, I guess,
02:23:58
◼
►
super zoom lens for a crop sensor camera.
02:24:03
◼
►
But the full frame--
02:24:04
◼
►
- Yeah, that's one of the things that annoys me about this
02:24:06
◼
►
is that the megapixels are, it's only 24 megapixels.
02:24:08
◼
►
So the reason you can get away with a zoom
02:24:11
◼
►
that doesn't have much reach if you have 41 megapixels
02:24:13
◼
►
is to just crop it yourself.
02:24:15
◼
►
But if it doesn't and it's just 24 megapixels
02:24:18
◼
►
and I can't get a long zoom, I can't even crop into it
02:24:20
◼
►
'cause I just don't have the resolution.
02:24:22
◼
►
- Again, megapixels are all about how you use them.
02:24:25
◼
►
But it would be hard for me to justify buying a new
02:24:29
◼
►
standalone camera today that was only 24 megapixels.
02:24:31
◼
►
Just because the sensors go so much higher.
02:24:34
◼
►
You can get easily up to like in the 40s
02:24:38
◼
►
with full frame sensors that aren't even that crazy
02:24:41
◼
►
up the market, at least in the 30s.
02:24:44
◼
►
I know there's trade-offs there and everything too.
02:24:48
◼
►
One advantage to 24 is that the photos will be smaller
02:24:52
◼
►
for your post-processing workflow.
02:24:55
◼
►
And there's also to consider things like the actual
02:25:00
◼
►
resolvable resolution of the lenses
02:25:03
◼
►
that you're gonna be using might not be 24 megapixels.
02:25:07
◼
►
It might be lower depending on what lens you're using.
02:25:10
◼
►
The path to full frame happiness is primes.
02:25:16
◼
►
Like prime lenses, not zooms.
02:25:19
◼
►
Zooms exist for full frame, but they're so big
02:25:22
◼
►
and so heavy and so expensive that really the path
02:25:25
◼
►
to happiness is to get some small, fast primes.
02:25:30
◼
►
My favorite by far, my favorite lens in the Sony lineup
02:25:34
◼
►
is that 35 millimeter F2.8 prime with a little inward
02:25:37
◼
►
facing hood thing 'cause it's so small and so good.
02:25:41
◼
►
And they have tons of great primes in the Sony FE line.
02:25:45
◼
►
I love the 55 1.8 as well.
02:25:47
◼
►
They've added even more since I've been really looking.
02:25:50
◼
►
But that 35 millimeter 2.8 is so good
02:25:54
◼
►
because it's just so tiny.
02:25:55
◼
►
Overall, I love a camera that has a small prime lens on it
02:26:00
◼
►
because it's just so much easier to handle
02:26:02
◼
►
and so much easier to get in and out of a bag
02:26:05
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and it's so much smaller and lighter
02:26:07
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that you end up using it way more.
02:26:08
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And if you can get shockingly good optical performance
02:26:12
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out of that at the same time, even better.
02:26:15
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That's why one of my favorite types of camera to use
02:26:18
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is the small, boutique-y, fixed lens
02:26:23
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but still full frame, roughly 28 to 35 millimeter lens
02:26:27
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camera and that would be things like the Sony RX1 series
02:26:32
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or the Leica Q series.
02:26:34
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But yeah, ultimately though, I can't recommend
02:26:37
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specific models 'cause I just haven't been
02:26:39
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paying attention at all.
02:26:40
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I know Canon's new mirrorless thing
02:26:41
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is getting a lot of rave reviews.
02:26:43
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Nikon has one now, this is all much more recent
02:26:47
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than when I stopped paying attention.
02:26:50
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- Yeah, the one I'm still waiting for,
02:26:51
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you know how Sony's very confusing naming.
02:26:53
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So the A7R is the one, maybe the R is for resolution
02:26:57
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but it always has the most megapixels, right?
02:26:59
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And then they have the A7S, which I think
02:27:02
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is the video focused one.
02:27:04
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- Yeah, usually, yeah.
02:27:05
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- And then they just have the plain old A7
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with a Roman numeral after it.
02:27:10
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And that's usually, it's like the same body as the R
02:27:14
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but the sensor doesn't have as many megapixels
02:27:16
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but it's still full frame in the big body.
02:27:18
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And anyway, I may be screwing up these names
02:27:21
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but the bottom line is that that model that I just described
02:27:24
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that basically what used to be the A7 III or whatever,
02:27:27
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the new one of those is the last one that hasn't come out.
02:27:29
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The 7C is out of left field 'cause this is a model
02:27:31
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they had never had before but they did the new,
02:27:34
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they've got the 6600 which is the tiny little one,
02:27:37
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they did the A7R, they did the A7S,
02:27:40
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there's Roman numerals there that I'm dropping
02:27:42
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but the plain old 7 one which is the body of the R
02:27:45
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and the S but not video focused but not as many pixels
02:27:48
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as the other one, they haven't released that camera yet
02:27:50
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as far as I know.
02:27:51
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So that's the last shoe to drop to say,
02:27:53
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okay, what number of megapixels do they choose for that?
02:27:57
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'Cause it is the bigger bulkier body
02:27:59
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but the thing about the 41 megapixel is
02:28:02
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like your hard drive spaces, you're just gonna be weeping
02:28:04
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from the size of those photos, right?
02:28:06
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And so I feel like 24 isn't exciting to me
02:28:09
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because I already have something close to that resolution,
02:28:11
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if not exactly, I forget if my thing is 21 or whatever.
02:28:16
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But 41 is probably too much, so somewhere in the middle
02:28:18
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may be the sweet spot for a full frame thing
02:28:20
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but then do I want the big case?
02:28:22
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And I have looked at the other ones as well,
02:28:23
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the new canons and the icons but I'm pretty firmly
02:28:26
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in the Sony campus, they have so many models
02:28:29
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that are sort of orbiting around the sweet spot for me
02:28:32
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in terms of size and resolution and features,
02:28:34
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it's just, I haven't wanted to choose one.
02:28:37
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I would have bought a new camera this year
02:28:40
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if it wasn't for COVID, I would have probably bought
02:28:42
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the 6600, right, and taken it and used it
02:28:44
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but COVID kind of squashed those plans.
02:28:46
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So I've got a year reprieve next year,
02:28:48
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if the world goes back to normal
02:28:49
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and I can go on my normal vacation,
02:28:50
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I will probably buy a new camera,
02:28:52
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it's just a question of which one it will be.