396: The World of Moving


00:00:00   I'm on my now my third pair of pad thingies for my headphones.

00:00:05   And the first, you know, I had the ones that they came with and then I replaced them with ones that were basically

00:00:10   identical and they lasted about the same amount of time and they were starting to get cruddy again.

00:00:15   So when I bought new ones this time, I decided to branch out and try some different ones.

00:00:19   So I got replacements that are the same as the previous ones. I also got leather replacements,

00:00:24   which is what I'm wearing now, and I also got velour replacements. Ooh.

00:00:29   And I wore the leather ones for I think a couple podcasts now and

00:00:33   I think they're gonna last longer because they're leather, right?

00:00:36   But I'm not sure they're any more comfortable.

00:00:40   And in fact, they may be less comfortable because the paddy things are bigger and there's not as much room for my ears inside them

00:00:44   because the ear cups on these headphones are not really that big.

00:00:47   So I'm wondering if I should switch to velour, but I didn't want to I don't know if these if I take these off

00:00:54   they're gonna be mangled or whatever, but Marco do you have any opinion on

00:00:58   what is the best ear cup material in terms of durability and comfort? Tons. Yeah.

00:01:03   So first of all, which headphones? Please don't tell me the 7506. It's the crappy Sony ones that you hate.

00:01:09   Oh the 7506. Damn it. If they ever broke I might replace them, but they don't.

00:01:14   They're the worst. So first of all, you just said they don't have a lot of room for your ears. That's true.

00:01:19   They're kind of small. You can get more comfortable headphones that have roomier ear cups.

00:01:23   The the 7506 ear cups are pretty small, pretty shallow in particular.

00:01:27   So that is something you can change with better headphones. Shallow?

00:01:32   You mean like sticking out from my head shallow? Because my complaint is that they're narrow as in they're not very wide.

00:01:37   They can't fit my entire ear in them very well. They have that problem as well.

00:01:41   They are narrow and they are shallow. All right, so stop bashing on my headphones and just tell me what ear cup material.

00:01:47   That's my question that I asked about. The 7506 was a great headphone for a long time.

00:01:52   There are way better ones available now.

00:01:54   And it's so incredibly overrated because it has like a past of being widely used.

00:01:59   But it is not a modern at all headphone in so many ways. And people who say it's neutral are wrong. Look at it.

00:02:06   It's not neutral. Look at measurements. It's totally not. But anyway for ear cup material you're basically facing a few different...

00:02:12   Keep in mind when you say things like leather, it's not real leather.

00:02:16   It's just you know vinyl that is made to look like leather.

00:02:19   These might be real leather. I didn't look but they might be. It's conceivable.

00:02:22   Generally speaking the material that forms the squishy part of the pad, like the inner foam ring or whatever it is,

00:02:30   that is usually much more important to comfort than the outside material. There are lots of different foams.

00:02:37   There's like memory foam ear pads you can get. There's you know different qualities and densities and everything else.

00:02:43   But the foam is usually a much more significant part of the comfort than the actual material itself.

00:02:49   Which makes it hard to shop for different pads or compare things

00:02:53   without actually just buying them and trying them because you don't really know between different like aftermarket pads or even first-party ones.

00:02:59   You know kind of what you're getting there. That being said,

00:03:02   typically leather is or the fake leather that they say is leather. That's usually the best material

00:03:09   like an all-arounder. The downside is that it does tend to get slightly more sweaty than

00:03:16   like a more like cloth like velour like alternative. The upside is that

00:03:22   it's more isolating for sound, the leather.

00:03:25   Because what makes it more sweaty is that it sticks to your head better and there's not a whole bunch of tiny little gaps

00:03:31   that sound can get in and out of. So it's not a large difference in in sound isolation, but it is a difference.

00:03:37   So it's worth noting for podcast usage you have now these two conflicting

00:03:42   values here. Like you don't want sound delete because you don't want bleed on your track from the other people talking.

00:03:46   But you also don't want to be too hot when you're sitting there for two and a half hours in the summertime in your un-air-conditioned

00:03:52   room doing a podcast.

00:03:53   So it's up to you which one you pick, but I think there's a very good reason why almost all studio headphones choose the

00:04:00   you know leather like pad finish because it just seals better and is

00:04:04   generally I think a little bit more comfortable for long periods except for the heat issue.

00:04:10   So I was the thing I was worried about with the Velour was sound leakage.

00:04:13   Do you find that that's actually a thing that you can notice and measure that the Velour have more leakage than a leather?

00:04:18   It is a measurable thing. One of the other things that that is

00:04:22   often noticeable with Velour alternatives to various pads is

00:04:26   that you get a little bit less bass response and it's because it is not forming as good of a seal.

00:04:31   And it's noticeable that on a lot of headphones including my

00:04:35   some probably my favorite mainstream podcasting headphones the

00:04:39   Beyerdynamic DT 770 that comes in a bunch of different pads. The like memory foam leather pads are significantly

00:04:46   more isolating for podcasting use and the bass is stronger in those than the Velour ones.

00:04:52   So it is it is definitely a thing again. This is not a huge difference.

00:04:55   It's nothing like the difference between open backed versus closed back headphones.

00:04:58   That's a much more significant difference.

00:05:00   But there is a small difference with whether you choose Velour pads or leather pads and leather is the more isolating and more bass heavy

00:05:07   of the two.

00:05:08   Just just for completeness sake because I know you want to and because I will actually add it to a notes document that I have

00:05:14   on stuff like this. Just tell me the headphones that I should buy instead of these.

00:05:17   So if someday I decide to I'll already have. And my keep in mind that I'm prioritizing comfort and I find these headphones to be

00:05:23   comfortable which is why I've never replaced them. But you just said that your cups are too small.

00:05:27   You know what I mean? But like but they're smallish but like

00:05:31   podcasting for three hours does not make my ears hurt. Makes my ears sweaty, but we've already covered that that's just you know a consequence of

00:05:38   sound isolation. But it doesn't make my ears hurt.

00:05:40   It's just like I could do with roomier ones. And in particular the the leather ear pads are a little bit like the patty part is

00:05:46   thicker so it makes the hole in the middle a little smaller again. Doesn't hurt

00:05:49   but it's I feel they feel less roomy as they did with the default ones which I still have a pair of. But anyway

00:05:54   what is your recommendation? It's complicated.

00:05:56   Yeah, I told you my requirements not complicated. You should have that whatever your most

00:06:01   comfortable ones are for that you think would be good for podcasting. I don't care about sound quality.

00:06:07   What you need John is you need what Marco either bought for me or made me buy which is what he described earlier

00:06:12   which is the Barodynamic DT 770 Pro and the one that I have is 32 ohm. It can't require an amp.

00:06:19   Right. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I plug these things into my microphone. Yep, 32 ohm. It's fine on the USB pre 2.

00:06:25   I can't speak for your microphone, but it is reasonably comfortable. They sound really good.

00:06:30   I think and this is a topic that we may explore someday sometime but not tonight.

00:06:36   But I think that I prefer a

00:06:39   Comparatively boomier headphone than Marco that is not to say I want like these stereotypical beats, you know, you can only hear bass but

00:06:47   the the I think that I prefer a

00:06:50   More bassy sound than Marco does which doesn't make him wrong doesn't make me right. It's just our personal preferences

00:06:56   And this these headphones actually are really good in my perspective for music, but they do tend to be a little tinny

00:07:03   However for podcasting, I think they're they're excellent. I cannot recommend them enough and they're not extraordinarily expensive

00:07:09   They're like 150 bucks, which is not cheap, but not that much more than what you got already

00:07:12   I read too many Marco headphone reviews when I can spell bear dynamic correctly on the first try

00:07:18   So yes what you want for your preferences for, you know, no amp

00:07:22   And general comfort for podcasting you want the DT 770 32 ohm

00:07:28   It's also it's has Pro in the name somewhere. Anyway, that's what you want

00:07:33   It's currently 160 bucks on Amazon. That's that's about where it usually hovers

00:07:36   I will say there are two other considerations three other considerations for the listeners

00:07:42   Number one is these are not neutral sounding headphones. You have to know that going in it

00:07:47   They have kind of like what people would call like a v-shaped sound

00:07:51   Like if you look at an equalizer

00:07:52   It kind of forms a V like the the bass and treble are slightly boosted from neutral

00:07:57   So it's a fun sound it makes music sound good

00:08:00   But the bass and treble will be a little bit higher than then like a flat response

00:08:04   Although, you know, it's complicated. Nobody actually wants a flat response. It sounds terrible. But anyway that being said

00:08:10   Other things to consider are the with this particular headphone

00:08:14   Most of the sizes although not the 32 come with velour pads the 32 comes with fake leather pads

00:08:21   The 250 ohm one if you have the power to drive it. I actually prefer that one because it has a coiled cable

00:08:29   Oh, no, missy. I don't think I would like that. I know I have to call cable and I like that

00:08:33   Yeah for a while

00:08:35   I thought that coiled cables

00:08:36   Were bad and then I switched to straight cables and the problem of straight cables is that you have all this excess cable flopping around

00:08:41   As you're podcasting the coil cable is actually more convenient even though it seems like it would be clumsier

00:08:46   But in practice a quilt cable is more convenient when you are wearing headphones at your desk

00:08:52   And you know, you don't have you don't want to have this big long cable flopping around

00:08:55   Obviously if for portable use you don't want that for portable use it's way too big on a wheelie

00:08:59   But if this is for a desk

00:09:01   Coiled cables are actually usually better in practice and in this model only the 250 ohm as far as I know comes with that

00:09:06   That's crappy and then I need an amp for that

00:09:09   Not I mean if you're if you want to really crank up the volume and blast out your ears with music from like an iMac

00:09:15   Maybe but it's not super hard to drive. It's

00:09:18   So I would I would consider trying that first on the downside of that is that so it's called the same thing

00:09:25   770 770 Pro 250 ohm. It's like it's like MacBook Pro parentheses 2012. Yeah, exactly

00:09:31   Yeah, it's like $10 more

00:09:34   Those come with velour pads. So try that you can easily get aftermarket now the the real Pro move is

00:09:41   They have a higher end model called the DT

00:09:44   1770 and I think it's a terrible headphone except the

00:09:48   1770 comes with as a second pair of pads

00:09:52   Something that has the item number edt 1770. This is a memory foam pad

00:09:58   From baredynamic for these headphones and it fits the 770 as well. It's the same shape case

00:10:04   they've been making the same shape headphones forever and

00:10:06   the combination of the 770 with the edt 1770 memory foam pad is

00:10:12   The best combination because then you have slightly improved sound way more improved comfort slightly improved bass and isolation

00:10:20   So if you can get those they're hard to find in the US they're easier to find from like Amazon, Germany

00:10:24   They usually stock them for like 30 bucks and sometimes you can get them to ship them to the US

00:10:29   But if you can get the edt 1770 paths and put them on the DT 770 Pro 250 ohm headphone

00:10:35   That is the best podcasting headphone

00:10:38   35 34 euros that's like not cheap isn't for only for you know for an OEM replacement headphone pad

00:10:45   It's not that you know, it's yeah, it's a pair of pads

00:10:48   It's trust me that combination is what you want and these pads are such a pain in the butt to actually put on because they're so

00:10:55   Tight around but like, you know, John's probably done a million times with his so he knows but like it's it's not a fun process

00:11:00   To swap out the headphone pads, but that combination is the best

00:11:03   All right. Do we want to actually get started because we have a few things to talk about tonight. Oh, yeah, there was an apple

00:11:09   indeed

00:11:13   So as with the last couple of weeks we need to start by talking about st

00:11:17   Jude Children's Research Hospital this month relay FM and associated people and properties like us and like this

00:11:23   We are doing our darndest to raise money for st. Jude Children's Research Hospital. So what is st. Jude?

00:11:28   It is guess what a Children's Research Hospital where they?

00:11:31   Have children who are sick with various forms of cancer come in into Memphis, Tennessee

00:11:37   Where they're located and get treated for free the families never have to pay a dime

00:11:41   This is near and dear to our hearts because of our dear friends Stephen Hackett and his family

00:11:47   their eldest had been diagnosed with a pretty rare form of

00:11:51   Cancer when he was just six months old and he is what 10 11 something like that now and that is expressly because of

00:11:58   The work that st. Jude did in the literally millions of dollars of treatment that they got for free

00:12:05   Now in order to provide that treatment for free that means that money needs to come from somewhere and hey guess what that's you

00:12:10   So if you have even a couple of dollars to scrape together

00:12:14   Especially if as Marco likes to point out and will probably repeat if you're I don't know

00:12:18   Spending a few hundred or a few thousand dollars in Apple products these days

00:12:21   Maybe you can throw at least a little in the direction of st. Jude. So please go to st

00:12:26   j u de dot org slash ATP that st

00:12:29   Jude org slash ATP and throw them a little bit of money or a lot if you can and

00:12:34   Speaking of a lot of money

00:12:37   There's been a new development John

00:12:39   Can you tell me about this so in the grand tradition of our listeners making fun of Casey for his typo?

00:12:44   Trying to enter the name to which is how to be attributed. We have a new champion

00:12:50   I think this means according to Casey's rules last week that this is Casey's new favorite listener. Is that right? That's right

00:12:56   I think that's right. That's correct. Sorry James Neil. You are now the second

00:12:59   I think anybody who achieves the top of that list at any time is one of Casey's favorite listeners

00:13:06   That's very true. But somebody somebody now here's what they did we said last time

00:13:10   Look, if you just go $1 over you'll be the top of the leaderboard right and the previous total was

00:13:15   6669 dollars $68, right so they could have done

00:13:19   $6669 nice and gotten to the top of leaderboard

00:13:22   But they didn't Doug is obviously a huge fan of the original line of power PC

00:13:31   Macintosh computers and he contributed

00:13:35   $8100 pick in the middle the middle of the road there. It's not the 8100 which was the big expensive one

00:13:40   It's not 6100 which was the pizza box

00:13:42   It's the 7100 and the name that Doug put he wrote in Doug for Steven star Mike

00:13:49   Well, they're nice. Well done. Very very nice. It's a great job Doug. You knocked off that

00:13:53   Possible hockey player to just put plain old Doug power PC 7100 power max 7100 good job now

00:14:02   But it does make it harder for everybody else because now you if you just do $1 over

00:14:06   He did a big jump there like, you know, so now you got to do

00:14:08   7101 dollars and don't think time has run out because what it really is having their podcast a thon on September 18th

00:14:15   That's right. So as you're listening to this it will probably be tomorrow

00:14:18   It is Friday the 18th and shoot. I don't have what time it starts. I want to say it's 2 in the afternoon

00:14:24   Yes, I it's 2 to 8 2 p.m. To 8 p.m

00:14:29   Eastern US Eastern Time, I believe they're shooting for their goal to reach

00:14:33   $315,000 so please give any amount that you can give $1 $5 $10 whatever you can possibly afford

00:14:41   And if there's one other person out there who like Casey's favorite listener Doug has a whole bunch of money and says, you know

00:14:49   What I'm gonna help save kids with cancer

00:14:51   Go for it

00:14:53   7,000 $101 the leaderboard could be yours. Yep

00:14:56   Yep, and Doug if you're listening to this and want to email me a a picture of your receipt or something

00:15:01   So I know because he didn't specify which Doug you are. You just said Doug for Steven star Mike

00:15:05   so if you can prove to me that you are the one and only Doug I will send you a

00:15:10   Smattering of ATP stickers that are not otherwise for sale. So please reach out if you can but no matter what

00:15:16   St. J ude dot org slash ATP, please throw a little money their way if you can

00:15:22   All right, we got some follow-up that I don't care about but I'm told we have to do so John take it away

00:15:27   Yeah

00:15:27   The only we have tons of fall but we're not gonna do it all this week because we had a lot of Apple events stuff

00:15:31   That too the only two follow-up items. I wanted to touch on our PlayStation related because today there were some exciting PlayStation

00:15:37   announcements so last time we talked about the Xbox series s which was a

00:15:42   lower powered version of the Xbox series X

00:15:46   It was only $299 and this is different from the Xbox one X and Xbox one s which are different from the Xbox one

00:15:52   Which is different from the first Xbox. I still do not have a name to call the new crop of Xboxes

00:15:58   I don't know what you call them collectively the PlayStation 5 is easy

00:16:01   They're just the PlayStation 5 and it comes in two versions

00:16:03   It's the PlayStation 5 just playing PlayStation 5 and then there's a PlayStation 5 digital edition which comes without the optical drive

00:16:09   We talked about that before but the Xbox you just call them the Xbox series. How about the series series?

00:16:14   It's very confusing anyway

00:16:17   Sony had a little reveal today and they announced their pricing and ship date and order date for their computer

00:16:23   So their consoles PlayStation 5 is exactly the same price as the Xbox series X

00:16:29   $499 so the top-of-the-line consoles from Sony and Microsoft exactly the same price

00:16:33   That's was a relief for everybody because people were afraid the PlayStation 5 is gonna cost 600 bucks

00:16:38   But no, they exactly matched here's where it gets super interesting the PlayStation 5 digital edition

00:16:44   Which is the PlayStation 5 without the optical drive we talked about last time and I made the arrested development joke that

00:16:50   Many people didn't get but a lot of people did what could an optical drive cost honestly, you know wholesale prices

00:16:56   For Sony putting in even a 4k, you know ultra HD whatever blu-ray player

00:17:02   That's not really an expensive part and all of these sort of decoding guts are already there

00:17:07   You're already paying for them. The PlayStation has the power to do all that, right?

00:17:11   So it's really just the mechanism the thing that spins your optical disc and reads it with a laser, right? I'm like well

00:17:16   Maybe the digital issue will be more expensive if maybe it has like tons more storage and the SSD is twice as big so it

00:17:23   Will be the more expensive model that would have been ridiculous, but I would have been excited about that

00:17:26   But if it's less expensive how much less expensive could it be if they if they just take off the price of the parts

00:17:33   It'll be like 20 bucks cheaper or something or 30 bucks cheaper, right?

00:17:37   Why would they make it any cheaper like they're just cutting into their own margins. Well, the PlayStation 5 digital edition is

00:17:43   399 dollars

00:17:46   $100 less than the PlayStation 5 and I'm pretty sure that in no universe does that optical drive costs

00:17:52   Sony a hundred dollars to put in there. Maybe I'm wrong

00:17:55   Maybe someone come and say you don't understand the special Dell lithium crystal inside the the ultra HD blu-ray player is very difficult to mine from

00:18:03   Asteroids or whatever and and that's why it's expensive but that was a Star Trek reference John. I'd like my credit, please but it seems like

00:18:10   That Sony has aggressively priced the digital edition because and here's why and here's why the matchup is interesting

00:18:17   we talked about how these series Xbox series s is attractive because it's

00:18:21   $299 and that is a great entry price for a next-generation Xbox console

00:18:26   but it's less powerful than the Xbox series s it has half the onboard storage and it's SSD and

00:18:32   It can't do 4k. It only does 1440p

00:18:35   Everything else about it is the same it plays the same games and everything just plays them at lower resolution

00:18:40   So if you have a 4k TV

00:18:41   the Xbox series s will be playing them at 1440p and then just upscaling them to 4k and

00:18:46   Also doesn't have an optical drive you out of yada, right?

00:18:48   So half the SSD space is a big deal because it doesn't have an optical drive and you can't play at 4k

00:18:55   Right, but but hey, it's so cheap the PlayStation 5 digital edition

00:19:00   Loses nothing over the regular PlayStation 5 when it comes to playing the games

00:19:04   The only thing it doesn't have is an optical drive and that's only used to copy the game off of the optical drive onto the SSD

00:19:11   After that, the optical drive is pointless and I suppose yes, you could use as a movie player whatever but anyway

00:19:15   The PlayStation 5 digital edition plays everything at 4k has all the same features as the PlayStation 5 and it's a hundred dollars less

00:19:23   So now if you're looking at this, it's not so easy to say

00:19:25   Well, the Xbox is cheaper, but the PlayStation, you know, maybe I like the games that for it or better, you know

00:19:31   Like yes, it is a hundred dollars cheaper, but that's not the good Xbox the PlayStation 5 digital edition

00:19:36   I would say is the good PlayStation 5 because who wants optical discs, right? It has the same SSD space

00:19:42   It has the same power and the same resolution same ports on the back of it same everything for a hundred dollars less

00:19:48   So what you're saying is they're?

00:19:51   including

00:19:53   marginally less in the box and giving

00:19:56   considerably more savings to the customer and more importantly you don't have to make this decision at purchase time of like am I okay with not

00:20:03   Having 4k right am I okay with having half the storage space?

00:20:07   You don't have any sort of these trade-off decisions

00:20:09   literally

00:20:09   the only decision is do I care about an optical drive or not and

00:20:12   If you don't don't get it because like I said

00:20:14   The only purpose that optical drive is if you want to use it as a blu-ray player

00:20:17   which some people do fine then you get you know, you can use it as a blu-ray player and

00:20:21   If you just want to buy physical games for whatever reason and stick them in there and it'll just copy them off of the optical

00:20:26   Disc onto the SSD because you can't play games off the optical disc you play everything off the SSD like all modern consoles, right?

00:20:32   so the optical this is just a way to get the bits from the game maker to you and

00:20:38   You know, I hate that I don't use optical disc

00:20:40   Alright, so you have the choice but you don't have to make any trade-offs about performance or storage

00:20:44   Whereas the Xbox series whatever you have to say do I want the good one?

00:20:48   that has twice the storage and plays in 4k or do you want the bad one that has half the storage and

00:20:53   plays in 1440p and

00:20:56   That's another hundred dollar position. So I guess what it comes down to is if the

00:21:00   market for next generation consoles really is price sensitive the Xbox could come out ahead because

00:21:06   You know

00:21:08   It's a hundred dollars cheaper just to get in on the ground floor and it can play all the same games and maybe you don't care

00:21:12   About 4k because who cares about 4k and it upscales anyway, and you'll never notice, right?

00:21:16   but if gamers are the typical spec driven gamers, they're gonna look at the series s as the sort of

00:21:23   Lesser product it's it's weaker. It's not as powerful which historically has been poison in the sort of you know

00:21:32   Specification driven

00:21:35   World especially of next-generation launch consoles where everyone cares about is it powerful as you know?

00:21:40   What is you know before there's any games right then anyone cares about it. They just want to compare specs, right?

00:21:44   But it's so cute. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's that's the second thing. So this will be interesting of the launch date

00:21:49   it's launching on November 12th, which is two days after the Xbox and

00:21:53   pre-orders begin

00:21:56   Tomorrow as we record this so pre-orders begin September 17th at selected retailers, but they won't tell you what those retailers are

00:22:03   So tomorrow will be fun game spot already accidentally put up their order page and then quickly took it down or something. I

00:22:09   Don't know. I'm gonna try to pre-order and as for things being cute

00:22:13   Now that we have the official specs of the ps5

00:22:16   We can confirm what I mentioned the last show that ps5 is huge. Lol. It is the biggest console you've ever seen

00:22:22   There's a good article link in the show. It's showing the sort of

00:22:25   With height and depth as compared to a bunch of other consoles that you may recall being very large including the original Xbox

00:22:33   The ps5 dwarfs them all it is massive

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00:25:17   So there was an event this week as we record this it was just like not last night it was just yesterday

00:25:26   we have an Apple event and

00:25:30   Do we want to cover any of the meta stuff meta stuff? Whatever you want to say first meta meta

00:25:35   Do you want to cover that first affluent affluent or do you want to or do you want to just jump right into the devices?

00:25:43   I think we just start jump straight into the news because

00:25:45   From a meta perspective. This was very much like their other

00:25:49   Covid time presentations where it's a well produced video that features the Apple campus and has people standing in nice places and saying things

00:25:56   Well, I will say one small note here that I noticed like

00:26:00   It was it was nice, you know to see like, you know, hi, this is Tim like, you know in in his natural habitat

00:26:06   but

00:26:08   it like it kept transitioning between like Tim and Jeff Williams and

00:26:12   They're boring presenters

00:26:14   Like let's be honest like that

00:26:15   Whatever personality they might have in their private lives does not come through on these videos

00:26:19   And so I was kind of disappointed every time they would transition between them and they would breeze by

00:26:25   Federighi and I'm like, oh no have him talk. Have him talk. Oh, he's gone. Yeah, it was like a tease like oh

00:26:30   I want to hear from Craig. He's a good presenter. He's entertaining. You know, he makes dad jokes

00:26:34   I want to hear and no no, he's not he's not in this one

00:26:36   Really? He's just you know, Craig is basically a prop that they breeze by sometimes and I was kind of disappointed by that

00:26:41   Well, I mean they have always mostly stuck to the idea that the person presenting is someone who is directly responsible for the thing

00:26:48   They're presenting they don't just pick people. Oh, well, you don't have anything to do with this, but you're a good presenter

00:26:52   So Craig does is a good presenter and but he only gets to present the things that he's intimately involved with and it'd be kind

00:26:57   Of unfair to let the people who are good presenters hog

00:27:00   The the limelight, you know what I mean? So it just so happens that this event was

00:27:06   A bunch of stuff presented by people who are not Craig

00:27:09   So I guess you all just had to live with that

00:27:11   No

00:27:11   The good thing is they're they're trying to pull from the the ranks of the organizations that create these products not just have the same

00:27:16   Person do it all the time, but and many of their other presenters are very good

00:27:19   I thought but yeah, I just like I I'm just I'm so bored by Tim and chef Williams because they're just not like

00:27:25   charismatic presenters at all

00:27:28   But fortunately the other presenters who weren't them were I think four very good. Yeah, you know another thing I was thinking about

00:27:35   I didn't take a count when this was going on, but I feel like at least

00:27:40   Between you know men and women in some some modicum of diversity

00:27:46   It's gotten so much better than it has been in the past and to the point that I didn't feel like I had to count

00:27:52   You know how many men versus how many women and I didn't look at tucked versus untucked which is everyone's you know

00:27:57   Favorite a comical thing to keep track of but but yeah

00:28:00   I think it's worth noting that they seem to be doing considerably better with all flavors of diversity. Not just you know gender

00:28:07   And it's not the obvious glaring thing

00:28:11   It was just a couple years ago and I think that should be applauded as well and it's been like that for a little while

00:28:15   Now you should probably have counted because as with all these things

00:28:17   you know what was the famous study of like when they had men and women talking to each other and

00:28:22   When them it talking at a group and when the men estimated that the women have been talking 50%

00:28:27   Oh, yeah, they actually have 20% of the time. No, that's fair. That's fair or the other the other cliche is but you know

00:28:33   When you're used to privilege equality feels like oppression right when you're used to just being a bunch of white guys

00:28:38   He's like, oh I saw one or two non white guys. That's about 50%

00:28:42   Actually not 50% and that's why it is still important for us for someone to at least

00:28:46   Still be counting and not being like yeah, they're fine, right? They weren't all white guys. Everything's good

00:28:51   It's like not quite and it's also worth pointing out that like

00:28:55   while diversity seems to be improving both in the presentations and in the like kind of

00:29:00   Medium to high ranks of the company the highest ranks of the company are still incredibly non diverse

00:29:06   Yeah, and even in the presentation if you go back and actually count it's like well, you know

00:29:11   It's it was still over 50% white guys, but that still felt like it was you know better

00:29:16   What I'm saying is is not mission accomplished. So Apple continues to make very slow progress in this area. We applaud their progress and we

00:29:23   Cheering them on to do better

00:29:26   All right, so Apple watch series 6, you know, I came into this

00:29:29   Feeling like I don't think I want to upgrade

00:29:33   I believe we talked about last week that the battery on my 40 millimeter cellular Apple watch series 5 has really been hurting more

00:29:41   So than I remember any of my other Apple watches a year in

00:29:45   it is not unusual for me to get a you know, 10% power warning at a

00:29:49   Like mid-afternoon, which is very odd. I can't tell if it's just that the

00:29:55   Software has convinced itself that the battery is in worse shape than it really is because I'll say, you know

00:30:01   I don't want to go into low power mode just continue on until you die and it'll last like another couple hours afterwards

00:30:06   So I think I don't know maybe something's a little wrong there. But what nevertheless outside the battery problems?

00:30:10   I don't feel like there's anything I don't think there's anything I really want my Apple watch to do that

00:30:15   It isn't already doing and then they said oh we have an oxygen sensor on the new one and I said, oh

00:30:20   Maybe I am buying one of these after all. So

00:30:23   The Apple watch series 6 it has the s6 system on a chip, which is 20% faster

00:30:29   It's lower power than the series 5 it includes the u1 chip and ultra wide band. Why would we care about this?

00:30:36   I guess we don't right now, right? Well, the little press release says you can use to open your car door with the car key thing

00:30:43   I mean, I think it makes perfect sense

00:30:44   I would might care about it on the watch even more than the phone because the whole deal with ultra wide band is like I can

00:30:49   Tell when things are near me in a way that is

00:30:52   Not as long-range as something like Wi-Fi, but is directional, you know, like it's perfect for a wristwatch

00:31:00   I feel like now we don't know what the applications are gonna be other than the car key thing that Apple's already announced

00:31:04   But I I think it's great that it's in a watch

00:31:06   I think it potentially has more use there than a phone because the the watch is always on your wrist and easy to put in

00:31:11   Your stuff. Yeah. Well and also not only can the watch tell what's near it

00:31:16   But other things can tell when they're near the watch

00:31:19   So you can imagine like if future max have ultra wide band chips in them for instance

00:31:23   Then that like the watch unlock thing could probably work faster and better and more precisely and more securely

00:31:29   Like there's there's all sorts of little benefits like that not to mention the fact that like it's good

00:31:33   If we ever if you know whenever these like, you know air tags

00:31:35   Allegedly finally launched like you could do things like find my watch, you know, it's like from the phone

00:31:42   And possibly even when I when it's in like low power mode or stuff like that

00:31:46   Like in case you drop your watch in the couch cushion or something like that

00:31:48   So who knows more like find your Apple TV remote with your watch by waving your watch around and hearing it beep

00:31:53   Yeah. Yeah. So the ultra wide band. It's one of those things that

00:31:56   It's gonna be a really cool thing once it's commonplace. It's gonna be kind of like

00:32:03   You know when Bluetooth first came out like when Bluetooth first came out

00:32:06   It was in a handful of things and it wasn't very widely used and then you kind of went to sleep for a few years

00:32:10   Woke up and Bluetooth is everywhere and now it's so ubiquitous that lots of fun useful things can be made

00:32:16   You know based on that that's how ultra wide band. I think will play out like

00:32:20   You know right now we all have we've all had phones when all of us all of us stupid early upgrade

00:32:25   Er's who set money on fire have had phones for a year now that has this technology that is mostly used for nothing or

00:32:32   Slightly cooler airdrop, but that's been about it so far

00:32:36   But in three to five years from now when everything has ultra wide band in it that's been made for the last few years

00:32:42   Really cool stuff will become possible and we will start it

00:32:46   Like I think we'll almost like it'll almost be taking it for granted at that point

00:32:49   Like oh, yeah, of course, this is in all of our recent stuff

00:32:51   Yeah, and this is another instance where it's actually good that Apple has been sticking this in products

00:32:57   Even before it's quote unquote ready with a killer app feature because Tim Cook loves to sell the same products forever

00:33:02   So yes

00:33:03   Please put it in the series 6 put it in the iPhone 11 because that series 6 is eventually going to be like the low

00:33:08   End phone in a couple of years and we'll keep selling these iPhone 11s under a new name, you know, whatever like

00:33:14   That hardware lives for a long time. Not only does live for a long time with users, but Apple keeps selling it

00:33:19   So if you ever want to get to that Bluetooth thing where everything has it

00:33:22   You have to start selling it in the high-end stuff before it's really ready so that by the time it is ready

00:33:28   Every single watch you buy as a you want and every single iPhone you buy has you on so I'm glad this hardware is rolling out

00:33:34   Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I actually especially

00:33:37   Thought your point Marco about computer unlock that that's an excellent point that I hadn't considered yet

00:33:43   so like we talked about a minute ago, it has a blood oxygen sensor and

00:33:47   I

00:33:49   Am NOT a doctor. Let me make that extremely plain up front, but we were talking in the relay slack about like what? Okay

00:33:55   What is the blood oxygen sensor really do so I'm gonna take a stab at it and one of you guys just interrupt me when?

00:34:00   You're ready, but as a general measure of your cardiovascular health

00:34:04   You can look at how much blood there is how much blood there's in your oxygen how much oxygen there is in your blood in?

00:34:11   order to see

00:34:13   Whether or not your your heart in your lungs and again broadly your cardiovascular health

00:34:18   Whether about things are working the way you expect and my limited understanding is that there's a very narrow range of what's considered to be

00:34:24   really acceptable and

00:34:26   If you see yourself falling below that range that can be a real problem and it's something that's worth getting checked out and something

00:34:34   That's been really relevant lately

00:34:36   Is that sometimes people who are infected with kovat 19 and who are getting sick from kovat 19 don't actively feel bad

00:34:43   But yet if you look at their blood oxygen readings, they're falling

00:34:48   Dangerously low to the point that it's a real real problem and you need to get help immediately

00:34:55   And so, you know early on when this was all happening. We got like a $50

00:35:00   Blood oxygen pulse oximeter from Amazon and it seems to work acceptably

00:35:05   I wouldn't say it's particularly great, but it seems to get the job done and

00:35:08   I try to use that like once or twice a day just to have like some amount of historical data that god forbid I can

00:35:14   Show a doctor and say look here's the way it usually is. You know, you tell me if this is

00:35:18   If where whatever I am now is bad or whatever

00:35:21   So having a blood oxygen meter on the watch that you can either call up and say please take my measurement now or that will

00:35:28   Be doing it kind of latent in the background from time to time

00:35:31   I think that's super awesome in general because again, it's a very good measure of just how healthy you are

00:35:35   but given what's going around these days it is

00:35:39   extremely relevant and so

00:35:41   The combination of a potential new battery in well, I shouldn't say potential

00:35:46   There is a new battery in a new Apple watch and the thought of a blood oxygen sensor has gotten me it

00:35:51   Well, I mean, I'm justifying it straight up Marco style right now

00:35:55   but I am telling myself between the blood oxygen sensor and the in the new battery that I'm just I

00:36:00   Have to have it. It has to happen to me Marco. There's no choice

00:36:03   I don't think you need to be checking your your blood oxygenation twice a day. That seems excessive to me

00:36:08   But if you are inclined to that kind of obsessive checking hey, yeah get an Apple watch and then you don't worry about it

00:36:14   It's just checking for you all the time or as far as you know, it's checking for you all the time either way

00:36:18   But yeah, like Apple's been very cagey about the blood oxygen sensor

00:36:21   If you watch all their material of not trying to pitch it as any particular health benefit

00:36:25   It's not a quote unquote medical device and there's all sorts of laws around this

00:36:29   It's just a thing that you can use to measure

00:36:31   Something about your body and it hasn't even been certified by whatever such-and-such as like accurate medical tool that you use for such-and-such purpose

00:36:39   So they just say look this is an attribute of your body and this watch will measure it and tell you about it

00:36:43   and

00:36:45   The kovat angle Apple doesn't come out and mention anything about but it does exist those, you know

00:36:51   You can get a pulse oximeter

00:36:53   Really cheaply from like Walmart for like 15 bucks or something right there

00:36:56   It's a there's actually that really good YouTube video that I should have found for show notes already

00:37:00   That explains how a pulse oximeter works. It's on technology connections. Oh, there you go. Yeah, it's very very clever extremely inexpensive

00:37:07   And so it's not some of this amazing technology

00:37:10   This watch has it's just nice that something attached to your body that already does a bunch of health measurements has added this to the mix

00:37:15   so

00:37:16   Good feature and apparently it will make Casey happy and make him stop sticking his finger into a little pinchy thing

00:37:21   That's true normally the justification the you know the way that we would justify buying this that this thing that we don't need that's like

00:37:30   Three or four to six hundred dollars probably the way we justify it as well

00:37:35   We know it would be nice if the whole family had these so that way, you know

00:37:39   we could tell if we get kovat right and not only is that not necessary because

00:37:43   Inexpensive pulse oximeters are all over the place and work fine, but you already even have one

00:37:50   And they were trying to detect kovat checking your blood oxygenation may not be the very best way to do that

00:38:00   It's one way it's a tool in the tool chest. Yes. Yes. It is. It is a measurement that you can take for sure

00:38:07   So yeah, so this you know, Apple did not develop this Falls products in response to kovat

00:38:13   it's you know, their their development cycles are longer than that for most of the hardware and and

00:38:17   So, you know anything that helps kovat

00:38:19   Like having a new iPad with the we'll get to the has touch ID like that's coincidental

00:38:25   That's that's not like they didn't do that in response to kovat or because of kovat that being said

00:38:30   It's hard to come up with a better thing. The Apple watch could could have added this year

00:38:35   You know coincidentally then a block station sensor for this purpose

00:38:38   I said it takes a tiny sample of your blood and does a kovat test on it. Yeah, right. Yeah

00:38:43   They don't have that technology yet

00:38:45   So yeah, exactly and and you know, there's lots of other things that the Apple watch could do as as like, you know

00:38:51   a a medical or fitness sensor

00:38:53   That would be beneficial to people but most of them are

00:38:58   Much more complicated and haven't quite been worked out yet

00:39:01   Like for instance a blood glucose sensor for diabetics would be incredible. Yeah, but it's so far

00:39:06   I don't think people have really devised reliable through the skin ways to do that yet

00:39:10   So that's like they keep I think Apple has been doing a lot of research in that area and and other companies have have as well

00:39:18   but I don't think that kind of thing is ready yet, but whereas

00:39:20   blood oxygen

00:39:22   Concentration is doable fairly easily from above the skin

00:39:26   and so that's something that you know

00:39:28   It made it makes total sense where they added it and if Apple ever comes up with it with a reliable

00:39:32   Non-invasive blood glucose test. It doesn't have to be in the Apple watch people wear that literally anywhere on their body

00:39:38   like the the market for doing that is incredibly huge and it's you know,

00:39:43   If Apple came up with a breakthrough there, even if it had to be worn someplace other than your wrist

00:39:48   They would probably ship it

00:39:49   But as for the Apple watch specifically

00:39:52   It's gonna be limited to things that you can measure from someone's wrist

00:39:56   Because people aren't gonna take the watch and strap it around their chest or you know around their neck or you know in their armpit

00:40:02   Or like it kind of has to do stuff from the wrist

00:40:05   So yeah

00:40:06   There is a point of diminishing returns of things that we can measure and I think it has to be non-invasive

00:40:10   Obviously, I suggest sit there in your wrist like a watch and occasionally do stuff and it's kind of amazing

00:40:14   the number of things it can do just by shining lights through your

00:40:18   skin and or arm hair on your wrists, right so

00:40:22   yeah, like I

00:40:25   Do hope Apple comes up with a with a breakthrough, you know technology for helping people with diabetes and so on and so forth

00:40:31   But this watching it

00:40:32   But that being said like I think first of all another big reason to upgrade to this watch if you're looking for more Casey is

00:40:38   That the lights change from green to red. That's just cooler

00:40:41   Like whatever you whenever you like pop it off and it's still like measuring your workout stuff

00:40:45   You see the green lights like green lights are not cool red lights are cool

00:40:48   So that's one one big reason but like, you know, you know seriousness like on the medical stuff

00:40:54   I when I when I heard that it was pulse ox. I'm like, okay great. That's that's nice

00:40:59   But then when I heard it was like a 15 second long test that you have to initiate I was like, huh?

00:41:04   That's not that great

00:41:05   But then they said it also takes periodic background readings that and I think that is kind of the Apple watch

00:41:12   mode of how it really makes a difference and how it can really catch some some helpful things for people is like if

00:41:20   You just get one of those $30 things in the drugstore to measure your pulse your oxygen

00:41:25   How often you gonna do that if your casey you're gonna say you're gonna do it twice a day

00:41:29   You're gonna actually do it once a day if you're a normal person

00:41:31   You're gonna do it once ever and then forget to do it ever again

00:41:33   and so

00:41:35   You know, honestly

00:41:36   The big value here is not that they did something that you can get a $40 thing to do anywhere

00:41:43   The big value is they did something in this thing that's gonna be constantly or periodically

00:41:50   Giving you readings all the time without you taking any action

00:41:53   So it's like the difference between like a manual backup and time machine or back plays. It's like

00:41:57   Automatic backups are way better because you won't ever do it yourself. Really

00:42:02   This is this is the kind of thing for health readings like and it's you know

00:42:06   They do the same thing with the various heart rate monitoring they do

00:42:09   that like it isn't it isn't you know, it's one thing to be able to take any an EKG or whatever or or to be

00:42:16   Able to monitor your heart rate when you ask for it. It's a much more valuable thing to be

00:42:20   Periodically monitoring that all the time to develop a baseline

00:42:25   So, you know like and it knows what is normal and then if it starts getting readings that are outside of your normal baseline

00:42:32   it can alert you to that without having to wait for you to take another test manually or

00:42:36   Remember to do it to do a thing or to know what your baseline even is

00:42:40   So that's where the value really is to this stuff

00:42:42   It's not that you can take a oxygen reading if you want to

00:42:46   It's that this thing's gonna always be taking oxygen readings and it can tell you if something deviates from the norm

00:42:51   And and the fact that it has so many different sensors plays into this like so they give a heart rate example

00:42:56   Um, it apparently measures your heart rate. It also knows whether you're moving or not because it's on your wrist, right?

00:43:03   So if your heart rate goes up, but your wrist is moving back and forth like you're running that seems normal

00:43:08   But if you're sitting on your couch and your heart rate goes up

00:43:10   That would be a scenario where the watch can alert and say you're just sitting there on the couch and your heart rate is going

00:43:15   Way up, so something's probably wrong right similarly with the blood oxygenation

00:43:20   You know, it has an altimeter

00:43:23   so if you're at the top of a really high mountain and

00:43:26   Your blood is less oxygenated not that it's not going to warn you about it because you do need that oxygen your blood

00:43:31   It's very important

00:43:32   But at least it has some correlation in terms of learning thresholds and everything to say well if it goes down a tiny bit

00:43:38   But you're at the top of Mount Everest. It's like this is still within reasonable parameters because the person's you know

00:43:43   Really high altitude or something, right?

00:43:45   So those are the type of things where the fact that this is a tiny computer with tons of different sensors

00:43:51   That's always attached to you

00:43:52   Make it able to make smarter decisions than you personally with the $15 thing you brought from Walmart that you left at home anyway

00:43:58   Yeah, no, I agree with everything you guys said and yeah

00:44:03   There's a brighter always on display up to two and a half times brighter, which they cited particularly in sunlight

00:44:07   That's gonna be really nice

00:44:09   one of the kind of quiet themes of

00:44:11   Yesterday's event was colors, which I was really excited to see I have what do they call?

00:44:17   What is the official name for the 11 pro green? It's like four screen midnight green something like that

00:44:22   Anyways, I have one of those space

00:44:24   Space green. I'm not the biggest green fan generally speaking, but I love the way this thing looks

00:44:30   Well the back of it the front of it is scratched so badly. I cannot even begin to describe it

00:44:36   I don't know what has happened to my phone this year, but oof it's bad anyway

00:44:39   But yeah, there's all new colors. There's a blue that looks really really good

00:44:44   I don't know if I want to get a blue one because I feel like that

00:44:50   Limit like I don't know anything about fashion obviously, but I feel like that limits my options a little bit

00:44:55   So I think I might just stick with the traditional like silvery look, but there's a blue one that looks great a red one graphite

00:45:01   replaces black

00:45:03   Although I guess there's space black in the Hermes line

00:45:05   And the titanium it what is it titanium edition and no ceramic is titanium not the addition

00:45:11   I never paid attention. There is a titanium edition. There is no more ceramic edition correct the ceramic continues

00:45:17   It's a pattern of basically taking every other year off gotcha

00:45:20   I think we had mentioned earlier. There's continuous altimeter, so it's always taking altitude readings. There's new faces

00:45:26   I know at least some of them are on watchos 7 because I did install that earlier today

00:45:30   Like the stripe faces on watchos 7 so even on my existing series 5 you can use the stripe face

00:45:35   but they mentioned a few others there was a

00:45:38   Marco you would know this better than me because and I know that you were really excited about all these new watch faces because they're

00:45:43   Pretty much flawless, right?

00:45:45   In general I'm

00:45:49   fairly pleased with the introduction of the Apple watch series 6 and the Apple watch I see like this part of the

00:45:56   Presentation I was fairly happy with I'm happy with the direction. They're going in general and these this seemed like a pretty solid update I

00:46:02   Would not say a lot of kind things about the new watch faces yet, I've only played with them for one day, but

00:46:11   hmm

00:46:13   It's such a shame. You know this is again. It's like they even brought an allen dye to troll me

00:46:20   I've been wearing my Apple watch more ever since I got the series 5 last fall. I

00:46:26   Finally came to appreciate the Apple watch

00:46:30   When I started to finally admit to myself and let it admit to the world that the Apple watch is a terrible

00:46:37   Analog watch what it really wants to be as a digital watch

00:46:41   The the series 5 really put really, you know hits home with that because of the way the screen dims

00:46:47   If any app is open at all it will always dim in inactive mode

00:46:51   To a digital time in that upper right corner and in like a blurred screen whatever if you usually have an analog watch

00:46:57   But occasionally you look at it, and it's a digital time

00:47:00   that's even more jarring than like if it's just always the same and so I started to realize a

00:47:05   combination of that and

00:47:07   how incredibly mediocre and like frustrating all of their analog faces are to me that

00:47:14   My happiness with the Apple watch is improved by me totally staying away from all the analog faces

00:47:21   because the analog faces continue to be

00:47:25   what you would expect if you asked a graphic designer who has never worn an analog watch to design one and

00:47:35   Every single analog watch face on the Apple watch is like that the people who design these have never worn an analog watch and

00:47:43   They're graphic designers not watch designers

00:47:45   And you could argue whether that should be the case or not for something like the Apple watch

00:47:49   Which is you know a computing device really first and a watch kind of second

00:47:53   Maybe that's the right choice

00:47:55   But the result of that is that the analog watch faces are not good analog watch faces

00:48:01   They they're they suffer from severe problems of legibility

00:48:04   severe

00:48:06   You know I would call them design quirks and design flaws and functionality flaws if

00:48:12   You let the Apple watch just be a digital watch and the face

00:48:15   I'm almost always using now is either solar in the winter or

00:48:19   Infograph modular in the summer when I want to see things like the UV index and stuff like that

00:48:23   If you just let it be what it really wants to be which is a digital watch

00:48:28   It's it's a much happier experience in a lot of ways, so I've been using it that way so all of these new

00:48:35   analog faces I

00:48:37   Went through them today. I tried coming up with good combinations

00:48:41   I was unable to

00:48:43   So I'm going to continue to have it be a digital watch for me, and I'm I'm I wouldn't say I'm happy with it

00:48:50   I don't I don't look at my digital watch with my infograph modular face and say wow that's a nice looking watch

00:48:56   But it is functional and that's the role digital watches

00:49:00   I've always had throughout history is like you know prioritizing function over over beauty

00:49:04   And that's what the Apple watch continues to do so now that I let it be that I'm I'm more at peace with how

00:49:11   Incredibly mediocre to bad all of the analog faces are

00:49:14   How do you really feel?

00:49:16   Really, I like stripes in principle a lot, so this is

00:49:21   This is where you can select. I think anywhere between three and nice nine stripes

00:49:26   You can select what color each of the stripes is and then you can select like an angle that the stripes are oriented as I?

00:49:33   Really really dig this in principle because it kind of gets you the ability to

00:49:38   to

00:49:40   Show some amount of pride in perhaps your country if you're not American in your particular sports team that you enjoy or or just

00:49:49   His sports or whatever

00:49:51   I don't know colorful thing you I mean you could make like an M logo out of these stripes

00:49:55   Out of the stripes watch face if you still believe you match your outfit. I think that's the main one

00:50:00   Yeah, that's true, too

00:50:01   If you're color coordinating you color coordinate your watch band now you can color coordinate your watch face

00:50:05   Which is what one of the things that Marco always talks about with his anger at the watch face is something you can't do with

00:50:10   The real watch is change the color of it

00:50:12   But if you have a digital screen you can so why not make that an option and with I think with the ability to save

00:50:17   Watch faces if you spend the time to make a watch face the person perfectly matches one of your outfits

00:50:22   I think you can just save that off and then the next time that outfit comes up to swipe over to the pre-made watch face

00:50:26   For that outfit, so it is time

00:50:28   Well spent if you really want to color coordinate and especially if you have a huge collection of bands that also match your stuff

00:50:34   Seems pretty cool to me

00:50:36   Yeah, and I will say the the bands that you know

00:50:40   We have yet to see any of these in person yet

00:50:41   Of course and and the current status of the world is gonna make it difficult

00:50:45   To for a lot of people to see any of this stuff in person for a long time

00:50:49   but I am

00:50:52   Cautiously optimistic about these new bands the direction they're going with them looks really good to me

00:50:58   The Apple watch has always excelled in having really good bands like well not relative to other Apple devices

00:51:06   Not relative to other fitness trackers, but relative to the entire watch industry

00:51:10   Apple watch has had some of the best bands in the industry

00:51:12   and so this new type of band is basically the stretch band coming in both the

00:51:17   The like a braid finish or just a rubbery finish

00:51:21   I'm looking forward to that. I did that. I printed out the thing

00:51:25   I ordered myself a white a white rubber one because that's my that's my band of choice

00:51:28   Because I I really am curious. I think I'm a size 7. We'll find out there might be some returns happening

00:51:35   We'll see how that how that goes

00:51:38   but

00:51:39   These are probably gonna be really nice. There is a slight annoyance if you've never been

00:51:45   an Apple watch owner of a

00:51:47   Strap that can't lay flat. It is less convenient

00:51:51   Straps that lay flat make charging much easier

00:51:55   You can just have the charger sitting flat on the desk or on some other flat thing face up and just stick the watch down

00:52:01   Flat when you have a band like these that can't go flat

00:52:04   It's more annoying

00:52:05   You gotta like kind of you know have either some kind of stand that has like a flip up or right angle thing or you gotta

00:52:10   Like kind of just manually stick it on every time like lifting up slightly so that that's kind of annoying

00:52:15   But otherwise, I'm looking forward to trying these out. And yeah, and I'm also I'm honestly also kind of curious about the new leather link

00:52:23   I don't think I have much of a need for a leather Apple watch strap, but the old leather loop

00:52:28   was something that always

00:52:31   Felt way worse than it looked it was very hard. It almost felt like a plastic link bracelet

00:52:37   The new one has fewer parts seems generally a little bit sleeker a little more elegant of a design

00:52:43   So I'm looking forward to seeing how that is in practice once I can ever get a good go to a store again

00:52:47   But yeah, otherwise

00:52:49   I'm really happy that you know, the bands are

00:52:52   Moving forward and in what appear to be good ways. I'm looking forward to receiving mine to try it out and

00:52:58   Finally before we get off the subject of Apple watch aesthetics

00:53:01   I am very happy to see these new colors to you know, you mentioned Casey. There's a blue one

00:53:06   There's also a product red one for the first time

00:53:08   You mentioned the graphite steel which kind of replaces the space black and all but the Hermes line

00:53:13   what I would caution people about is don't make any assumptions how these things will look until you can see them in person or

00:53:19   until you have if you have a very good easy way to return things because

00:53:24   It's very hard to tell how Apple watch finishes and colors look like on a website

00:53:31   I found this to be the case last year with the titanium

00:53:34   It looked way different in person than what I expected it to look like by looking at the website and I expect that same thing

00:53:40   To happen again this year with like the the new gray color of the steel

00:53:45   And and probably also with the blue and red aluminum

00:53:49   So who knows like it might you know, it might look very different than what you expect

00:53:54   So, you know go into it knowing that that there's a risk you might be returning it if you if you just buy blind on the website

00:54:01   Speaking of returns like the solo loop things

00:54:04   well

00:54:05   We'll put a link in the show notes to the PDF the sizing thing which they do as good a job as they can for

00:54:10   Yeah thing that you print out to size like it's got a little square on it where you can put a credit card and basically says

00:54:14   If your credit card fits exactly in the square, you know

00:54:16   You printed it the right size which is much easier than trying to get people to measure things for the ruler

00:54:20   And you cut it out and you wrap it around your wrist

00:54:23   But man for a stretchy thing, it's like, okay

00:54:27   Well, this is this little thing you put on your wrist can measure how big your wrist is, but the paper is not elastic

00:54:33   So how firm do you want it to squeeze right?

00:54:36   Maybe you would actually want a smaller size as you needed to be grip tighter

00:54:40   Maybe you want a higher size because you want to lose to this

00:54:41   You really really would like to try these things on in person, but you know kovat so it's not that easy

00:54:47   So I get I mean Apple has usually it's a pretty good return policy, but it's kind of a hassle

00:54:50   the other thing about the solo loop is that

00:54:52   As I tweeted when they were announced they look a little bit like an arm hair menace to me

00:54:56   Like I did not relish the idea of trying to squeeze one of those things over my very hairy arms

00:55:01   especially the rubbery grippy ones and

00:55:03   Speaking of that we haven't talked about pricing yet for any of the things but the the Apple watch itself is $3.99

00:55:07   Which I think is unchanged from the last top of the line Apple watch right?

00:55:11   Yeah

00:55:12   Starts at because they go up and up anyway

00:55:14   The solo loop the rubbery kind of looks like the sport band solo loop thing is 50 bucks

00:55:20   Which is you know it's no more highway robbery than the sport band being 50 bucks is but it is what it is if you

00:55:25   If you want to get a cheaper one, I'm sure it'll be clones on Amazon shortly

00:55:28   The braided solo loop is $100 now. I was like what what is it braided from Rapunzel's hair?

00:55:34   I don't understand how this thing could cost

00:55:37   A how it can cost $100 and B how it's twice the cost of the rubbery one

00:55:41   I guess it costs money to have tiny nano machines braid them for you. I don't

00:55:46   Risk that Apple must be making a lot of money on these that I understand

00:55:51   They're like Marco said they're high quality. They're good, and I agree. They are really cool, but reach

00:55:55   It's like it's like a options on a portion. It's where the real money is made

00:55:58   You know they sell you the watch for for a pretty good profit, but the problem is these straps must be ridiculous anyway

00:56:05   Series six looks like a good update

00:56:07   Nothing amazing. I haven't been keeping up with the Apple watch world, but before this keynote

00:56:13   I was actually kind of hoping they were like maybe this year

00:56:15   They'll surprise us all and say you know the Apple watch now looks totally different

00:56:18   But they didn't and it doesn't but it's still a good product

00:56:20   Yeah, this is definitely an incremental update. You know this is not like oh my god

00:56:26   You have to rush out and buy this it's amazing like it's not one of those years

00:56:29   This is like you know if if you're into the idea of getting a new watch or if your current watch is you know older?

00:56:34   And dying or the batteries not lasting long anymore, and you want a new one. This is this looks like a great update

00:56:38   I'm personally very excited about the brighter dim mode of the screen in bright sunlight

00:56:46   That is something that the series 5 for all of its wonderfulness with having that always on screen

00:56:51   I have wished for it to be a bit brighter in the sleep mode in sunlight

00:56:56   I have frequently this the summer run into the run into a time where like I would glance my watch in the Sun and

00:57:01   It would actually be kind of hard to read the time until it activated

00:57:04   So that should be nice

00:57:06   Otherwise I know it's a frivolous thing like I I don't I don't need this. I'm not gonna even try to justify it

00:57:14   I have no justification whatsoever. I'm just getting it because it's a fun thing. I like it

00:57:18   Yeah, I'm probably gonna order one the next day or so of course. You know are they shipping are they shipping?

00:57:23   Yeah, the order today delivers September 30th through October 2 so not that long from now

00:57:27   Yeah, as usual it depends on which combination you get many of them don't ship until October or November

00:57:33   Some of them ship still on Friday. I think

00:57:35   No, you two are not getting though a

00:57:38   power adapter with your Apple watch

00:57:41   Yes, Apple says that the Apple watch does not come with an

00:57:45   Apple watch this is what they're they're not including in the box

00:57:49   So they're still including the little thing that smacks on to the back of the watch that charges it

00:57:54   And then has the little cord snaking from it

00:57:56   But the thing that that cord plugs into they used to give you this tiny little thing that was very very small and it plugged

00:58:02   Into an outlet and then it had USB a on the other side

00:58:05   I don't know if they switch them to USB C or whatever there is a USB C one available

00:58:09   But I think the one that comes in the box is still USB a yeah

00:58:11   So it was something that plugged into the wall, and it was as small as it could possibly be

00:58:14   You know and then you plugged a USB thing thing into it right that little tiny thing that plugged into the wall is what?

00:58:20   They're not including

00:58:22   and

00:58:24   In the presentation they said we're not including this because it reduces the carbon footprint lots of people have places where you can plug any

00:58:31   Kind of USB thing into why do we need to give you another one a lot of people just chuck these away?

00:58:35   Which makes perfect sense they pitched it as?

00:58:38   It's the equivalent of 50,000 cars being removed from the road per year for Apple not to ship these things

00:58:44   Because Apple scale is very large and they sell a lot of Apple watches

00:58:47   That's a lot of you know waste and you know carbon emissions saved so good for Apple

00:58:52   I

00:58:55   Think this would have been an absolutely 100% clean win if they said we're not including the power adapter of

00:59:00   Course you can buy power adapter separately you probably shouldn't buy them from Apple

00:59:04   But you can you can buy one of these for a couple bucks it like a gas station, right?

00:59:07   It's not you know

00:59:08   It's because it's the lowest voltage you could possibly imagine like the charger watch you don't need a high power powered is literally anything you can

00:59:14   Plug USB a into you're fine, right?

00:59:16   but Apple didn't say

00:59:19   Well, you can buy it separately and we're lowering the price by the cost of that

00:59:23   Adapter which which wouldn't be which wouldn't be much, but it would just be like look

00:59:28   We haven't always changed about this it would complete the the waste pitch right of saying we're doing this for environmental reasons

00:59:35   It's like if you want it you can buy it

00:59:36   It's the same price as it was before but if you don't want it now you don't have to pay for it, right?

00:59:40   Don't pay for something you don't need and by you not paying for it and us not giving it to you by default

00:59:45   We're saving the environment and you're saving money and that's great

00:59:48   And unfortunately that little tiny power thing probably cost five bucks not from Apple

00:59:52   They cost nineteen dollars, right?

00:59:53   But I mean for Apple like Apple's cost to make that little thing is whatever five bucks ten bucks, whatever

00:59:58   Knock something off the price instead of making it three hundred ninety nine dollars make it three hundred and ninety five dollars

01:00:05   So that five bucks that was the power adapter and then people can say clean win

01:00:09   Environmental if I don't want it. I want to have it and if I do want it I can have it

01:00:13   It would be great if you could buy it for five bucks from Apple, but like I think that would work out

01:00:17   But of course Apple being Apple they didn't change the price. It's exactly the same price as it was

01:00:21   You just get less in the box. Yep, except

01:00:23   If you buy a titanium or Hermes model, they do come with a power adapter because rich people need the waste

01:00:30   And also the the the titanium and Hermes ones also come with a sport band

01:00:35   Did you know that you could you pick whatever bang you want? They also throw in a sport band for free?

01:00:38   $50 value sport, but anyway

01:00:41   so if you're a rich person you still get tons of stuff and they and it makes lots of waste and

01:00:45   If anyone's gonna have someplace where they can already plug in a bunch of USB charging stuff

01:00:50   It's probably someone who's buying a very fancy watch because like all of us I mean

01:00:54   it I'm not gonna say

01:00:57   No one uses that little power brick

01:00:59   But I think if you have a lot of Apple devices

01:01:01   You probably have places in your home already available where you can plug in a USB a style charging thing or USB

01:01:08   C style charging thing

01:01:10   Especially when you don't need very high power delivery like you're not trying to charge an iPad Pro here

01:01:15   Literally anything that's USB will charge this just fine

01:01:19   So I I think this is a good move

01:01:21   I think Apple shouldn't include stuff like this by default, but I wish they had passed any of the monetary savings

01:01:28   onto their customers even just in a symbolic gesture of goodwill

01:01:32   I like the fact that they're passing on the carbon savings to the world good. I applaud this is exactly what you want

01:01:38   I don't want to have to pay for things that I don't want it is wasteful and I would choose not to have it because I

01:01:41   Don't need it, but can I get five bucks off? I don't know

01:01:45   well, and it's kind of I mean

01:01:49   Yes, it's wonderful that they're saving that waste

01:01:52   There's also other ways they could do that for instance

01:01:55   Every sport band every watch that comes with a sport band or every sport band you buy separately has three pieces

01:02:02   There is the like loop piece and then there's two of the whole pieces

01:02:07   There's a short one and a long one every sport band they sell or every watch that comes with a sport band

01:02:12   You're probably throwing away half of the band without even using it once

01:02:17   Because you find the one that fits you and then you never use either one

01:02:19   So and also, you know, they could maybe make their devices more serviceable over time

01:02:25   That would probably reduce waste by a significant, you know margin way more than you know

01:02:30   Removing you to be power adapter and this isn't to say that they're going to keep it or they should keep it. I mean

01:02:35   it is

01:02:38   Probably inevitable and they should and you know, we're probably past the point where they're gonna do this anyway

01:02:43   And you better believe they're also gonna remove it and probably the headphones from the iPhone as well

01:02:47   I think this is all but seals the deal on that it they're gone from iPhone 12

01:02:52   But I don't know. I'm with you John

01:02:55   I I wish that it didn't feel just like we're now just getting less for the same amount of money

01:03:01   Because there is an environmental benefit here, but you know, they could have done a better job of selling it to us

01:03:07   I think giving us something for but that was never gonna happen. There was never and like

01:03:13   There was no way they're gonna reduce the price by 10 or 20 bucks

01:03:16   It's never gonna happen

01:03:18   I mean the Apple way to pitch this is well we did reduce the price by that much is just the series 6 cost a little

01:03:23   bit more than the series 5 to make so

01:03:25   Yeah, it's a lot of BS - let's be honest like they're gonna make a little bit more money from this and and whenever there is

01:03:35   Something that helps the environment that also makes them more profit

01:03:40   That's a pretty easy thing to do. Yeah, the thing about the watch strap having both of them in there

01:03:46   Like anything that has to do with fit I can imagine them being a little bit wary about

01:03:50   Asking people to do that because that could actually produce more waste in terms of returns and people not understanding the difference and all this

01:03:56   other stuff

01:03:57   You know, that's why I worry about the solo loop

01:04:00   Especially without people being able to try them on like in some respects. They're stretchy, you know, like stretch pants

01:04:05   They fit everybody but on the other hand, I don't want something squeezing my wrist too tighter being too loose or whatever

01:04:10   Well to watch for people in the wild if and when these things start shipping who are wearing solo loops

01:04:15   They were obviously one size too big but didn't want to bother returning it. So it's just rattling around on their wrist

01:04:20   You know, I mean, yeah, well also like, you know as anybody knows who has ever want to watch like your wrist size changes

01:04:27   Sometimes even within the same day

01:04:30   That's why I think is good, right?

01:04:32   You know depending on like how how hot or humid it is or how hot you are maybe from a workout or something?

01:04:39   Having a fixed size wrist or watch band that you can't easily change. So I kind of just different hole or something

01:04:46   Is certainly less comfortable in some cases

01:04:49   But in the ideal case if you get one that fits you perfectly that is a fixed size it is potentially great

01:04:56   Because then you don't have the big like blob of thickness in the bottom with all the mechanism of like the clasp and everything

01:05:02   You can just have this one continuous piece of material

01:05:05   So like when you're resting on a keyboard or a desk or something like that

01:05:08   You don't have that big blob pushing into you

01:05:09   So in an ideal case if you can find a fit that works with you most of the time

01:05:13   That's the best of all worlds

01:05:15   But that's you know, that might be a little bit tricky at first till you figure out what size you are

01:05:18   So Sony took out five or ten bucks worth of guts and gave a hundred dollar discount Apple

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01:07:33   All right, so

01:07:39   The Apple watch se which I don't know how I feel about that name, but whatever at least it's consistent

01:07:44   it has the it's it's kind of I think it was described on upgrade is kind of the merging of the

01:07:50   Series 4 and series 6 which I thought was a pretty good description

01:07:54   So it has a series 5 system on a chip. It does not have the always-on display

01:07:58   It does not do ECG and it does not do the blood oxygen stuff

01:08:02   It has the same accelerometers and altimeters series 6 it starts at 280 bucks, which really isn't bad

01:08:08   I mean, it's a lot of money

01:08:09   But it's not terrible in the grand scheme of things and adding cellular is only 50 bucks instead of the 100 it is on the series

01:08:15   6 which is frustrating but you know, it is what it is

01:08:19   But great news Marco the series 3. Oh, never mind. It's not dead. Yeah

01:08:23   I mean

01:08:23   honestly

01:08:24   like this is the kind of thing that effects underscore more than me because I

01:08:27   Still continue to barely make a watch app and he makes many of them

01:08:31   so, you know, but the reality is that yeah, like the the series 3 is

01:08:36   still in the lineup at 200 bucks and this matters a lot because

01:08:40   There's massive competition at the low end price wise of things like Fitbits and everything for the Apple watch

01:08:48   and there's pretty much no competition in the

01:08:50   $400 and up price range like they don't they don't have much there

01:08:55   So really they need to have something at this low price point and they've had the series 3 sitting there

01:09:01   You know the few years old series 3 sitting there for a little while

01:09:04   They the series 4 was immediately discontinued when the series 5 came out. So the series 4 never got its chance to be

01:09:12   The cheap one. It's kind of got iPhone 5 into the sunset and the series 5 I guess is not the same thing

01:09:18   They're not selling that anymore either as far as I can tell so it's also gone

01:09:21   So it's just 6 and SE but I like what the SE is. I

01:09:26   Wish it was cheaper so we could get rid of the series 3 because the series 3 is not only the last

01:09:32   32-bit device in Apple's lineup, but it's also the

01:09:36   Last of the Apple watch old screen size an old screen shape an old complication type and everything else

01:09:42   So the sooner we can get rid of the need to support that as developers

01:09:46   The easier certain stuff is on the Apple watch that being said that's like saying as you're walking through hell

01:09:53   The ground could be a little bit smoother, you know, like that of all the various hostile bits of developing apps for the Apple watch

01:10:00   Dealing with those small screen sizes or its 32-bit attitude is not

01:10:06   That doesn't really compare to all the other incredibly rough edges and hostile environment that it is. So

01:10:12   It would be easier for developers if that series 3 went away earlier rather than later

01:10:16   But you know, it's still not gonna be a great platform to develop apps for if I'm honest

01:10:21   And it's not gonna make it that much easier

01:10:23   So it isn't nearly as hard to support that as it is to support small iPhone screen sizes for instance

01:10:29   Anyway, that's it from a product perspective. I think the Apple watch SE is a good idea

01:10:34   we actually ordered one for to try to be our kids first Apple watch because

01:10:40   I'm much more excited about this family setup thing. Mmm

01:10:44   You can basically have an Apple watch that is set up and paired to your iPhone for somebody else in your family

01:10:52   so this is especially useful examples they gave were children or possibly if you have a relative who

01:10:58   Doesn't have an iPhone, but you want them to have an Apple watch for various reasons

01:11:03   You want to maybe know where your kids are?

01:11:04   If your kids some way to like emergency call you or you know

01:11:08   You want to keep keep tabs on like an elderly relative who might have health issues?

01:11:11   It's so this kind of thing is great

01:11:15   We were literally in the market for this this past summer and we're to the point with our kid where

01:11:20   Some of his friends have phones and we don't want to give him a phone yet. It's a little early for that

01:11:25   But he will also, you know

01:11:28   Go off and play like down the block or you know walk to the ice cream shop at the end of the block or whatever

01:11:34   And it's like you kind of would like to know to have some way to know where he is

01:11:39   And yes, I know we all grew up without this but you know that today is today and we have options

01:11:43   We were thinking like we should probably get him maybe an Apple watch

01:11:46   But we were thinking maybe like we'd pair it to like an old iPhone that he would not ever have with him

01:11:51   But anyway, this is a better way to do that and they get their own phone number. It has to be cellular

01:11:57   They get their own phone number that you can then like, you know text and call it presumably it needs some service

01:12:02   They have to pay your carrier some amount for that

01:12:05   I'm sure AT&T will make very simple and

01:12:07   Definitely won't gouge you on the activation fee and will definitely make it super easy to cancel

01:12:11   Mmm in the chat ask a good question if I'm buying a serious. Anyway, why not give the kid my series 5 hand-me-down

01:12:18   That's because I buy the stainless steel model and it's too heavy for him

01:12:22   He prefers the aluminum model, but we don't have any cellular aluminum models to give him

01:12:27   So we're gonna try the series of that. Sorry the SE I know I recognize again. This is yet another thing

01:12:33   I know I don't I don't really need this

01:12:35   But I'm admitting that I'm buying it because it's cool. So there it is. I

01:12:41   Do think this is a really cool idea and you know, we had seen signs of this

01:12:46   Was it last year when they announced the App Store on the Apple watch and I'm assuming that that's going to work with family setup

01:12:54   Perhaps it won't but stuff like that where it seems like the watch is getting ever more independent

01:12:58   And I think this is a really really clever idea. I mean Declan

01:13:02   Even in the before times Declan was pretty much always with us

01:13:06   And so he is too young for this and I'm not sure we would even necessarily explore it if he was older, but

01:13:12   one way or another I think

01:13:15   It is an extremely cool idea and and I think if we lived in a place more similar to where you are Marco

01:13:21   I think I would be much more enthusiastic about it. I think this is really clever and and I'm really curious to see

01:13:27   how well this is implemented because

01:13:29   Anytime Apple does stuff with families in my experience. It seems like if you have the most vanilla plain Jane like easy

01:13:39   Like happy path way of doing things it all works great

01:13:43   But if you do something even remotely weird everything falls apart time about it

01:13:48   I spent all day doing Xcode provisioning profile crap because I have carplay entitlements

01:13:52   Talk about being off the beaten path. You can't do crap without anything automatic with that

01:13:56   Oh and good luck getting catalyst to work. Oh, yeah. Enjoy that that does not sound fun at all

01:14:01   and the other thing I'm worried about is so let's assume for a moment that that Adam is going to have this watch and wear it to

01:14:08   school and

01:14:10   He'll be away from

01:14:12   Presumably any sort of cellular phone and he will be away from his house Wi-Fi

01:14:17   I don't know if there is Wi-Fi at the school

01:14:19   I don't know if he'd be able to get on it either way

01:14:21   But that indicates to me that this watch will be sitting with the cellular radioactive like all day long and I can tell you

01:14:28   Even in the best of times my 40 millimeter watch when I'm using cellular which admittedly I'm also typically streaming music

01:14:36   And I'm doing an exercise which is a lot so to consider the source here

01:14:39   But I have not been impressed with battery life when I actually am using the cellular features on my watch like it

01:14:46   destroys the battery and so I

01:14:49   Really hope and I guess since this isn't always on that'll make a big difference, too

01:14:53   They won't have the always-on display

01:14:54   But I really hope that the battery life is better than I expect because I have the I have the expectation that the battery life

01:15:00   Is gonna be real real bad. That's very possible. It's that's certainly a risk that is something I've heard

01:15:06   From both you and I believe from from David Sparks of Mac power users

01:15:10   When I talked about this with him like two years ago

01:15:13   When an Apple watch when a cellular Apple watch is away from its paired iPhone

01:15:17   It does burn the battery quickly so quickly that this might be a bad idea

01:15:21   So we'll find out like, you know, I've never tried, you know running at that way like all day long

01:15:26   So we'll see what happens in practice. I think you're right that having the the series fives

01:15:32   Processor which is pretty efficient, but without the series fives always on screen does probably give it a good amount of battery headroom

01:15:38   That said of course, this is going to be the smaller model

01:15:40   It is kind of funny by the way that my eight-year-old is going to wear the same size watch that I do

01:15:44   But yeah, so we'll see how it works it this plan could totally backfire and I might I might report back in a month that

01:15:55   Oh, yeah, we returned it cuz it sucked but we'll see I have a feeling you know, they probably did this family

01:16:01   Set up thing for a good reason

01:16:03   Like because this would be a problem with almost any family set up context

01:16:07   So, you know and and they family set up only works on cellular

01:16:11   There's probably a reason for that too because they realize this is what people actually want this for not just for Wi-Fi only ones

01:16:16   So we'll see how it goes

01:16:18   But I actually I think they probably designed it with that in mind

01:16:22   So it will probably be okay keep in mind also that he's in school most of the day

01:16:27   He's not allowed to like text people on his watch in school. And and of course we were going to enforce

01:16:33   We're gonna make sure that that's the first

01:16:36   So he's not gonna be heavily using the cellular necessarily

01:16:40   It's more it's gonna be more of a like, you know way for us to track his location and for him to call people in emergencies

01:16:46   Anything else on the watch specifically then we have fitness plus up next but anything else on the watch?

01:16:52   Yeah, I just want to tell Marco that he's gonna enjoy finding out what an eight-year-old can do to an Apple watch

01:16:56   I

01:16:58   Bet you'd probably take good care of yours

01:17:00   Let's see if that thing lasts a month for you to get mad at the battery life

01:17:03   I told him though like cuz you know

01:17:05   He's he's a nice kid and he was concerned about getting something expensive

01:17:09   And so what I did was I showed him what you know

01:17:12   I showed him one of my watches and I'm like look see this giant scratch on the side of this

01:17:16   I'm like I scratched this watch the day I bought it

01:17:19   and here here's that first scratch and I told him like you're gonna scratch the crap out of it and

01:17:25   You just have to learn to be okay with that because you're gonna I want you to wear it and use it and everything and he

01:17:30   You know, he's a little bit worried but you know, it's it's it's time. I think he's ready for it

01:17:34   I wasn't really talking about scratches, but we'll see how it goes. Yeah

01:17:38   The Apple watch is pretty sturdy to be fair. Yeah, the eight-year-olds are pretty eight-year-olds are pretty amazing

01:17:45   The other thing I think is relevant to the SCN family setup and

01:17:52   Also the series 3 still being in the mix, right? So a family setup only works with the series 4 or later

01:17:57   So if you buy Apple's cheapest watch to give with your kid

01:18:00   You can't use family setup with it. And the second thing is the series 3 is 199 and the SE is

01:18:07   279 and boy the series 3 is so much worse than the series the SE right which is basically a series 5 plus

01:18:15   It's like I just I don't care about the series 3 from a developer's point of view

01:18:20   I understand underscores pain but in general like your Marcos right that we did do need to have a 199 model, but

01:18:25   279 is so close. It's so close. It feels like you know, I just next year

01:18:30   They've got to get rid of that series 3 bring the SE down in that because it's weird now that if you go I want

01:18:35   To watch for my kid and they're like, well, here's our cheapest watch

01:18:37   But you don't want that one for your kid because let me tell you why

01:18:39   It's this is a little bit weird in between all this is to say is the Apple watch I see looks like a really good deal

01:18:46   Compared to everything else but the series 3 just looks like a dog to me. Oh, yeah, but if you think about it

01:18:51   Like if Apple's profit is usually, you know

01:18:53   30 to 40 percent on hardware that kind of is their entire profit like the difference between those two like

01:18:59   Who knows who knows what these watches and what what the actual cost of materials are they are very small that we didn't mention that

01:19:06   But one of the other things they pitch is they're using even more recycled materials for their watches and everything to so that might factor

01:19:10   In but anyway next year next year their lineup will make even more sense, but they've made progress this year

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01:21:16   So, I think we've talked about this on the show in the past but

01:21:24   Aaron has been very dedicated and I've been semi dedicated to doing you know, some sort of daily exercise

01:21:31   And for me that comes in various forms, but for Aaron that's pretty consistently been something called Beachbody

01:21:37   which is like a kind of Netflix for

01:21:39   For exercise videos and things like that and well Beachbody is two things

01:21:44   It's a total pyramid scheme, which Aaron is not at all involved in thank goodness

01:21:47   and it's also a really actually genuinely good Netflix for for exercise videos and

01:21:51   I I do some of the Beachbody workouts as well

01:21:54   She does a lot more of them and is much more dedicated than I but they're pretty good

01:22:00   And the app is okay

01:22:02   It's not stupendous, but it works and they all they have apps for your phone and your iPad as well

01:22:07   as of course the Apple TV

01:22:09   But the idea particularly in these times the idea of working out at home with somebody instructing you as much as they can

01:22:16   In a one-way fashion, you know instructing you on how to how to exercise and get fit

01:22:21   In my personal opinion that can work and it can work pretty well and for Aaron to get this kind of Netflix for exercise

01:22:29   so to speak it's a I believe it's $100 a year and

01:22:31   Yesterday Apple announced Apple Fitness Plus, which is basically a Beachbody style thing

01:22:39   So a kind of Netflix for exercise videos that's really built around the Apple watch

01:22:44   I don't think it's absolutely requires an Apple watch

01:22:48   I'm actually not sure about that, but it's certainly built around the Apple watch and at first glance I thought okay

01:22:53   Well, this is just Beachbody but by Apple, you know

01:22:55   Of course the production values are through the roof and everything is so pretty and so on and so forth

01:22:59   but it's the same basic idea, but then they started talking more and more about it and

01:23:03   There are a series of really little things that add up to really really impress me. So

01:23:11   One of the things that they said was that Jay Blahnik, I think was the presenter doing this part

01:23:16   They he had said that you know as you're doing these exercises

01:23:21   well

01:23:21   first off when you start one of these, you know

01:23:23   Presumably you're you're doing this on like the Apple TV or an iPad or something like that when you start one of the exercises it will

01:23:30   Automatically start a workout of the appropriate type on your Apple watch which is an integration

01:23:37   I don't recall I guess other than the remote app

01:23:39   I don't recall there ever really being a direct integration between the Apple TV and the watch and that also makes me wonder

01:23:44   How is this going to work if Aaron and I both use the same Apple TV, you know, obviously not simultaneously

01:23:50   Well, actually I guess what if we do do it simultaneously, you know

01:23:53   Because not only do they start the exercises on your watch

01:23:57   but another thing they do is they show your stats on

01:24:00   Screen so you can see your rings. You can see your heart rate and and so on and so forth

01:24:06   and yeah, I know that they're they're allegedly like profiles on the Apple TV and

01:24:10   and I

01:24:14   Suppose that might work, but I don't know that I'm skeptical

01:24:18   But nevertheless one of the other cool things that they do other than starting the workout is that they'll they'll show you like I said

01:24:23   Your heart rate your rings etc on screen and they said if there's a time at which the trainer says

01:24:29   Oh and check out your heart rate right now

01:24:30   It will actually like enlarge the heart rate readout on the screen when the trainer says that

01:24:37   So it's easier to see like is this important? Absolutely not but is it extremely cool? Heck yeah

01:24:43   It is like I just think that this is Apple at its finest when when they control the entire widget or the entirety of all

01:24:49   The widgets they can do really slick stuff like that. And I think that that is super super cool

01:24:55   They you they have all sorts of different workouts. They have like yoga treadmill bike

01:25:00   Dumbbell a sort of you know lifting high intensity interval training all sorts of different stuff

01:25:06   Dancing rowing for Marco. Hey, yep rowing for Marco a

01:25:12   Mindful cooldowns all sorts of different stuff and I didn't catch this part of the presentation

01:25:16   But they were talking about on upgrade that one of the things they're doing is like a complete beginner

01:25:21   version where I guess if you're completely unfit as as

01:25:25   So many of us are and I would say I definitely wasn't but up until recently they have

01:25:31   They have their I guess I would assume low impact or not terribly challenging

01:25:37   Exercise programs that you can try it's free for three months when you get a new Apple watch then it's ten bucks a month or?

01:25:43   $80 a year family sharing included it's available sometime by the end of the year and appears to be English only for now

01:25:49   That is a whole lot of information Marco. I'm really interested to hear what you have to say about it

01:25:55   But let's give John a chance first because I think you're gonna have a lot more to say than John so John take it away

01:25:59   I haven't actually used any of these things

01:26:02   So I'm not entirely sure what the market for it is the only comparison that I've have any information about is the one that everybody's

01:26:09   Making which I don't think is particularly apt and that's to Peloton and these other

01:26:12   very expensive cycling things

01:26:15   Which were sort of pioneers in this space of getting people with a lot of money to buy a really expensive stationary bike and then hook

01:26:21   up a gigantic

01:26:22   screen to it and connected to the internet right and it's sort of that's sort of a home derived offshoot of the spin classes that

01:26:28   people go do and

01:26:30   Apple entering with this product is like well this makes sense for Apple. This is the type of thing that they're used to

01:26:34   It integrates with their devices

01:26:36   But it's basically just a thing that shows on the screen and they're gonna have new content every week and like you said the production values

01:26:42   Are really high and everything, but you know what it reminds me of more than Peloton

01:26:46   It reminds me of do you remember when Apple maybe you've already forgotten about this?

01:26:49   But a lot of people have came out with these we're making music lessons by famous musicians with high production values that will teach you to

01:26:56   Play the piano or whatever do you remember that?

01:26:58   Yep, where are those now? I think they still exist but did not set the world on fire

01:27:03   Did they this looks a lot like that this has better integration?

01:27:08   It's kind of like if Apple's music lessons

01:27:09   You know directly integrated with an Apple keyboard or something because here they have the watch doing the health monitoring for you

01:27:15   And it hooks in so it's better than that, but it does make me wonder

01:27:19   I mean we always make at least I always make fun of Apple for not understanding the gaming market

01:27:23   I

01:27:25   Don't know much about the fitness market, but when I look at Peloton that is a company that seems to me understands

01:27:31   Very well, what causes people to engage?

01:27:35   With exercise like they and the reason I mentioned gaming is when I read about Peloton. I'm like oh

01:27:42   They are using not gamification because it's just overloaded term, but they they're using aspects of technology to

01:27:49   bring sort of

01:27:53   Social and competitive angles to what is essentially a you know a thing that you do by yourself in your house

01:27:59   To motivate people to exercise and Apple of some respects did that with the activity rings

01:28:04   You know encouraging people in a Fitbit style to be aware of their health first of all and second of all to be competitive to

01:28:10   achieve some kind of goal

01:28:12   Peloton takes that a step further with

01:28:14   the social aspect and the sort of the celebrity aspect and the personality aspect of having their instructors be

01:28:20   You know very personable and and you know eventually famous and having you do things a group and compete with your friends and compete with

01:28:26   Other people in the class the same things that spin classes did in person, but now it's powered over the internet

01:28:30   It's the entire world

01:28:32   That kind of integration and also the live classes

01:28:34   Which Apple doesn't have any of?

01:28:36   Of like being able to be acknowledged in a live class as you sit there

01:28:40   Pedaling your part out in your own house than having the the famous instructor that you've been watching and the Peloton video mentioned you or something

01:28:46   like that

01:28:47   That is you know setting aside the $2,000 bicycle

01:28:51   I'm not even talking about that pretend the bike was free that experience that gets people

01:28:55   To get made peloton what it is today and makes it a successful business. It seems like Apple either

01:29:01   Apple certainly doesn't have a lot of those features

01:29:04   And it doesn't seem like it values or understands them because there's no reason technologically Apple couldn't have a lot of those features granted again

01:29:11   It can't have a $2,000 bicycle

01:29:12   But all the other aspects I talked about the social aspect the interactive aspect the live aspect the competitive aspect

01:29:19   Apple does not have now

01:29:22   This is a version one granted

01:29:23   but they're coming into a world where things like Peloton already exists so I do wonder is this going to end up as a

01:29:29   less expensive mass-market version of Peloton or is it going to end up as

01:29:33   The exercise equivalent of Apple's music lessons hmm. That's a good question

01:29:39   I mean, I I think the odds are pretty good that this will at least see good usage

01:29:44   Especially because as we'll get to with the the Apple one

01:29:48   You know finally services bundle I think people will know about this more

01:29:55   Because it's one of the things that's included in the top tier of the bundle that they're going to possibly want for other reasons

01:30:00   And so it's there. It's going to be like well. I'm paying for this anyway. Let's check it out

01:30:05   So there will be some aspects of that because I also think that this is just a bigger market

01:30:09   I think more people want to

01:30:11   Exercise with instruction than want to learn musical instruments in GarageBand or whatever wherever that was

01:30:18   So I think it's probably going to be a bigger audience. You know no matter what?

01:30:23   But you are right. You know a lot of the appeal of Peloton is

01:30:27   The competitive aspect and the live aspect like those are two things that are very much not present here

01:30:34   So I actually I'm very excited about Apple fitness plus even though like I probably won't use it very often

01:30:39   Because I have my own you know trainer setup that I do so I don't really know I'm not really the market for yet

01:30:45   But I might do it like if I'm traveling or if it's a day where I don't have anything else planned

01:30:52   But I want to get a little bit of a workout in like I think I think I'll use it here and there

01:30:56   the absolute beginner program that case you mentioned is wonderful and

01:31:01   The actual experience of working out with it does look pretty cool

01:31:06   It looks like they've done a really good job with the integration and everything with the Apple watch everything so all that stuff

01:31:10   I'm sure it's going to be nicely produced nicely done

01:31:13   Where Apple I think will suffer is what John said like I think they're they're probably never going to really nail the competitive thing I?

01:31:22   Can't see them doing live classes possibly ever

01:31:26   Those both seem like things that are fairly difficult for Apple to do like you know

01:31:31   Culturally or skill wise whatever it is like they're not good at that kind of thing. I don't think they're gonna do it

01:31:36   But I think this will still have great value in

01:31:40   giving people who I

01:31:44   Mean the problem is it would have much greater value if it was free for everybody who own an Apple watch like that would be

01:31:50   significantly nicer

01:31:52   the fact that they

01:31:54   Made it its own pay service or its own member of a bundle that is a bundle of paid services

01:32:00   I know why they did it. I know it's inevitable of course. They're gonna charge money for it, but like

01:32:05   Yeah, old Apple would have just had this be a thing they did to make you buy Apple watches

01:32:11   Modern Apple wants this to be its own profit center

01:32:15   that will happen to also sell some new Apple watches here and there and

01:32:19   That's I kind of think it's too bad, but again. I know why they did it

01:32:24   I know it's kind of inevitable with today's Apple

01:32:27   The thing is there's a free version of this that Apple could do

01:32:30   That would be better than that because Peloton doesn't offer much for free like a free quote-unquote

01:32:37   If you get that bicycle, but don't pay for the service

01:32:39   You can still kind of use it, but it's crap right so what could Apple do a free right?

01:32:44   Not that the marginal cost of the of what of the producing these exercise videos per week is anything close to what they hope the

01:32:50   Subscriptions are gonna be because again you pay these exercise instructors to make these videos every week

01:32:55   Can you pay the video production crews and so on and so forth?

01:32:57   But that's a that's a fixed cost and then you get as many subscribers as you can right so it's not as if all

01:33:03   It has to be subscription because they have to pay these people to make new videos every week Marco's right

01:33:06   They could totally just eat that and you know make it up in volume quote unquote by getting people into the ecosystem

01:33:12   And so on so the amount of money they make by selling Apple watches

01:33:14   It's so much greater than whatever this cost them to produce in its entirety

01:33:19   It's not like you're helping pay for these instructors the salaries with your with your thing

01:33:23   But plus they're saving all that money from all the power adapters

01:33:25   In in the free realm one of the things that out with the Peloton offers and it's pay things is something that Apple would be

01:33:31   Awesome at an actual thing that Apple would already be awesome

01:33:34   I they'd have like scenic rides where when you're riding the bicycle you just going through scenery

01:33:38   It's not an instruction class, and it's not competitive

01:33:40   It's like what if you just want to ride your little stationary bike and go on a beautiful mountain trail

01:33:45   That's Apple has screensavers that already practically do that

01:33:48   It'll be the air version of it right Apple would be great at that and you can offer those for free because you make 17

01:33:55   videos of scenic bike trails or whatever and or you know scenic running trails or whatever and

01:33:59   Those are part of the free tier because you just make them once literally and you never make them again

01:34:04   And you put a couple dozen of them in there and that gets people into the idea of doing exercise in front of their TV

01:34:09   Or iPad while seeing their stats reflected from their watch again

01:34:12   more Peloton is stingy with the

01:34:14   functionality of the free tier not giving you all the cool integrations with all that stuff because Peloton integrates with like heart rate sensors and I

01:34:20   Think even with the Apple watch at this point, right?

01:34:22   So I there is a way where Apple could have this. This is fitness plus right how about fitness without the plus?

01:34:29   Everybody gets without the plus and it's like five videos of every type

01:34:33   I know five of each kind of the videos for cycling dance yoga treadmill just to give you a taste

01:34:37   But it's the same five videos, so you're gonna get sick of them right and then

01:34:41   15 or 20 cool scenic videos for the same activity type things and if you like that sign up for fitness plus

01:34:47   And what do you get for that? Maybe you get better stats tracking leaderboards?

01:34:52   Social compete with friends blah blah blah and also every single week new videos

01:34:57   You don't get sick of watching the same videos over and over again

01:34:59   But no we didn't get the we didn't get the free tier. We just got to pay one

01:35:03   I'm not steeped enough in the fitness world to know how competitive this is with

01:35:10   You know other things like the beach bod thing over the pricing was it was it in this ballpark Casey?

01:35:15   It's more expensive. This is 80 bucks a year at Beachbody on demand is honor bucks a year isn't Beachbody an MLM or something

01:35:21   - yeah, that's what I said earlier that there is so if you don't do any of the MLM stuff

01:35:27   Then you have to pay like full retail for it. Are you joking is it literally a multi-level marketing scheme?

01:35:32   I think it literally is

01:35:34   I can't tell if you're just trying to make fun of Beach butter like it is no no no no

01:35:38   I legitimately think that it is an MLM because and I haven't like done the proper research

01:35:43   And I might be wrong about this

01:35:44   But it seems to me like they really encourage you to become a quote-unquote coach

01:35:49   And then when you're a coach

01:35:50   Then you get discounts on things and then they want you to pedal their like special

01:35:55   Nutritious stuff and then you get a pink Cadillac at the end. I get it okay. Yeah, yeah exactly reference acknowledged

01:36:00   What was that Mary Kay is that yeah?

01:36:01   Yeah

01:36:02   You should put a link to multi-level marketing in the Wikipedia page and the show notes for people who don't know what this is I had

01:36:07   A friend whose mom had the pink Cadillac in high school

01:36:09   But yeah, basically I believe it to be an MLM, but but what's nice about it is you

01:36:14   Aaron like has completely and utterly ignored the MLM aspects and

01:36:20   Doesn't seem any worse for it and and again like I think that the MLM side of Beachbody is really super gross but

01:36:27   The if you take the videos for what they are as just you know exercise videos and admittedly

01:36:33   I don't have a lot to compare to but it seems to me like they're pretty darn good and and as I've mentioned before

01:36:38   Like I am NOT a particularly strong person, and I am NOT you know particularly cut or ripped or whatever the particular

01:36:43   you know the euphemism is these days, but

01:36:45   But I have certainly built muscle where I did not have muscle before and that's been almost

01:36:51   Exclusively because of what I've done with these Beachbody workouts, so

01:36:54   Yeah, when I say it's MLM. I legitimately believe it to be MLM, but again. I maybe I'm wrong who knows

01:37:01   Yeah, well you try out these try up the fitness thing you get the free three months

01:37:05   It's worth comparing right and if it because it is cheap it is cheaper, right?

01:37:08   It is cheaper, and that's only if I get a watch though John you never know you're gonna get a watch

01:37:12   I know you always do

01:37:14   We have a healing it's three months free with a new Apple watch purchase. Oh, that's what yeah, okay, hey, man

01:37:20   I don't always get a watch this would be the first time I did a

01:37:22   Annual watch I did the series zero series three series five this would be the first annual watch

01:37:27   Oh and real-time follow-up it does indeed require an Apple watch I actually closed the page

01:37:32   But there's the FAQ at the bottom of the Apple Fitness Plus page

01:37:36   And it says you absolutely do need an Apple watch

01:37:38   For reasons and that isn't that unreasonable if you know given the kind of integration that it has and everything

01:37:43   That's that's probably fine. You know worst case scenario

01:37:46   It just won't go anywhere, and we won't ever hear about it again, but I think it's probably gonna be a

01:37:51   Success to some degree. I don't think it's gonna take over the world

01:37:55   I don't think it's gonna replace anybody's Peloton or their their beach MLMs

01:38:00   But I do think it is probably going to help people in a in a maybe a more casual way

01:38:06   Similar to what the Apple watch always does like what the Apple watch does

01:38:10   Has it has always done is it brings?

01:38:14   Fitness in at least a casual way to more people

01:38:19   That's like one of the greatest things the Apple watch does if not the greatest thing it does

01:38:24   It gets people more into fitness even at a very casual level some more than that

01:38:30   But you know even at a very casual level everyone starts caring about like hitting their stand goal in their green ring or whatever like that's

01:38:36   That's what the Apple watch is really good at this just takes it the next step forward

01:38:40   This is like art if you want to go a little bit further into the world of moving

01:38:45   Then this is the next step for you to for you to start doing and that's really great this it has the potential to really

01:38:53   Help a lot of people out to really be very useful

01:38:55   It has a lot of potential for casual use like as I said like I'm never gonna

01:39:00   You know go into like Peloton or anything because I have my own other thing that I do but

01:39:05   There are times when I would occasionally want to use something like this

01:39:09   And it'll help me out too because I'm I only I only want it occasionally so while I wouldn't be the target customer for

01:39:16   Some you know bigger you know more more established or more involved thing

01:39:21   This is something I might dip into sometimes and if it comes with a bundle that we will eventually talk about that

01:39:27   We that I'm already paying for it's like well. It's already there

01:39:29   So I'll let me dip in on you know this Friday when I have no other workout

01:39:34   and I want to you know do some rowing with some guided some you know some person guiding me and

01:39:38   There's also gonna be so many people who?

01:39:41   Hopefully do take advantage of that absolute beginner thing who have never done this before and might be intimidated to do something that is

01:39:50   You know either in person with the trainer somewhere or in a gym around a bunch of other people who like geez

01:39:55   Before I ever went to a gym

01:39:57   I was so scared to ever go

01:39:59   Because I didn't want to be seen by all these other people who knew what they were doing and were more and more more in shape

01:40:05   Than I was it was a very self-conscious thing for me to ever go to a gym

01:40:08   This is the kind of thing where like you can just do this with the stuff you already have anyway from Apple

01:40:14   And you know in the privacy of your own home and because it isn't even live

01:40:19   You know you you don't even feel self-conscious because nobody's watching you so that's there's a lot of value to that

01:40:25   And Apple didn't invent this, but if they're gonna do a pretty good job

01:40:29   That's gonna be easily available to lots of people

01:40:31   There's a lot of value to that so I think ultimately this will either go nowhere

01:40:35   It should be a shame, or it will go somewhere which will be pretty good

01:40:38   It is kind of annoying that they made it a subscription, and it's part of the services revenue and all that stuff

01:40:44   But you know we you take the take the good with the bad. I guess yeah

01:40:48   I think that's a really good summary

01:40:49   And I think a pretty good place to leave it but before we do real-time follow-up reading from Wikipedia

01:40:54   Beachbody LLC is a privately held American multi-level marketing company

01:40:57   So all right let's talk about Apple one we had heard rumors of this

01:41:05   I think it was leaked in the Apple music app for Android or something like that, but yeah

01:41:08   It was in her show notes that we never got to it. Sorry, but yeah

01:41:11   This was the name was leaked a while ago one is the bundliest number

01:41:15   My favorite thing about Apple one is that there's three plans. Yeah, that is a good point so yeah, so Apple one is their bundle

01:41:21   There are three plans. There's individual family family and premiere

01:41:24   And where in there they're not all

01:41:27   Geographically available everywhere it depends on where the things that are being offered are available

01:41:33   But for Americans anyway the individual plan is 15 bucks a month it has

01:41:37   Apple music Apple TV plus Apple arcade and 50 gigabytes of iCloud storage

01:41:43   And so that's a savings of about six bucks a month the family plan

01:41:47   Means you can share with up to five other people

01:41:49   We're not sure if you have to cohabitate or not I would assume not, but I'm not sure about that

01:41:54   That but anyways that's $20 a month 200 gigabytes of iCloud storage

01:41:59   And it saves you $8 a month it has the same music TV plus arcade and iCloud and then premiere

01:42:06   Which is $30 a month it has two terabytes of iCloud and it adds news and fitness

01:42:13   So that gives you music TV plus arcade iCloud news and fitness plus, and that's a savings of about 25 bucks a month

01:42:20   That's the short short version. I'm I'm

01:42:25   Really in classic AC style. I'm waffling a lot about this. You know I don't pay for iCloud storage, which I know is ridiculous

01:42:31   I don't need the lecture about it right now. You know the time your photo backup for I think I forgot about this

01:42:36   And I'm mad all over again

01:42:38   Your what are you doing?

01:42:41   You're like you're like the people the old people my family. I'm gonna complain about a little bit later

01:42:46   So I know but I also don't use iCloud photo library

01:42:51   And I want to I it is on the list of to-do's that I haven't gotten to yet. I want to

01:42:56   But anyways I don't use Apple music. I don't use iCloud photo library. I've never even tried Apple arcade

01:43:03   I do like Apple TV plus. I'm not sure if I want to pay for it or not, but I do like it

01:43:09   And and so for me like at a glance. I don't want to I don't want any of this

01:43:14   Why would I want any of this? I'm a devout Spotify user

01:43:16   And I don't really play video games that terribly often, and I'm surviving

01:43:21   Whether or not I'm having a good life or not. I'm surviving without iCloud storage, so why bother, but I was talking to a Tyler Stallman

01:43:29   yesterday about it, and I'm hopefully going to appear on a show of his sometime this week and

01:43:36   In the midst of hearing him talk about it it occurred to me

01:43:40   You know even though I don't pay for iCloud storage yet. It is on the to-do list of things. I want to do I

01:43:47   Probably do want Apple TV plus. I'm not a hundred percent committed, but I think I want it and

01:43:52   Although I am again a devout Spotify person like if I got Apple music for major air quotes free

01:43:59   That wouldn't be so bad, and I just told you that I am at least casually interested in fitness plus

01:44:06   so I

01:44:07   Wouldn't be surprised if I end up doing the premiere plan sometime in the next couple of months because it actually in a lot of

01:44:13   Ways makes a lot of sense so and the other thing is I've got a terabyte of photos

01:44:16   so if those ever end up in iCloud I pretty much need to either jump to the premiere plan or

01:44:21   Apparently you can do the family plan, but then you can add additional iCloud storage for an additional fee so

01:44:28   One way or another it's quite possibly that I'm gonna

01:44:32   It's quite possible that I'm gonna be subscribing to something here sometime soon John you already subscribed to at least some of this stuff

01:44:39   So what what is your plan? Where are you thinking on this? Yeah?

01:44:44   I did some quick math to see like would I save any money with these bundles given what I have it's

01:44:49   Complicated by the fact that I'm still on my free first year of Apple TV plus right so right now if I got the bundle I

01:44:56   Wouldn't actually be saving any significant money in fact

01:45:01   I think it would be more expensive for me to get the top-end bundle because I do have the big the two terabyte

01:45:05   iCloud storage already right so if I wanted I'd have to get premiere right the thing

01:45:10   I couldn't figure out is if you add storage the other tiers does it just cost the same amount

01:45:14   I'm assuming it does because they didn't say you get any kind of bargain on it, right?

01:45:16   But if you buy one of the other bundles you say and I want to add storage

01:45:19   I think the storage just cost the same amount it always did so the thing about

01:45:22   Two terabytes iCloud is that's ten dollars a month on its own so that kind of kills my ability to other plans

01:45:27   But anyway once my free year of Apple TV goes by it's actually gonna save me like five bucks or something over what I it's saving

01:45:34   Me five bucks, and I get two services that I don't care about that

01:45:36   I'm never gonna use or maybe I will but like if I just ignore news and fitness

01:45:41   I still say five bucks, but I get I say five bucks a month, and I get news and I get fitness right so I'm

01:45:47   Gonna get the premiere if only just to unify it into one bill and but I this whole all these offerings

01:45:53   really

01:45:55   frustrate me from the perspective of

01:45:57   like

01:45:59   How can Apple best solve problems that it has with its customer base as opposed to how can Apple make an attractive service?

01:46:05   Bundle or how can Apple make more revenue for services or how can Apple get you know all the reasons?

01:46:09   They're they're doing this that makes sense right, but the one that really burns me is like Apple has a problem with its customers

01:46:15   Where like they have problems with their lives and their digital devices related to their unwillingness to pay a monthly fee for anything

01:46:24   right

01:46:25   that's that's a

01:46:27   Real thing that happens Casey is a perfect example people don't want to pay for more iCloud storage

01:46:32   So they don't have enough iCloud storage to store all the photos and then their phone goes in a lake and they lose their photos

01:46:36   This is a real legitimate problem the technical people in the family deal with all the time because they have to convince the non-technical people

01:46:43   Please please pay for more iCloud storage. You don't have an iCloud backup of your phone

01:46:47   That's literally the only place any of these things exists because you don't have a personal computer right which is which is fine and everything

01:46:52   But Apple's customers are losing important data like photos and video

01:46:57   because nobody wants to pay for storage and

01:47:01   If Apple one was focused on solving problems Apple's customers have it would be all about

01:47:07   Backing up more stuff in the cloud whether that be like iTunes match

01:47:11   Which is not even on this radar because no one even knows what that is except really old people like me who still pay for

01:47:15   Hey, that's me

01:47:16   Yeah, getting you know getting people's music into the cloud for them

01:47:20   Or you know Apple music is a different thing because you're paying for access to the world's library

01:47:24   Let's just start with like that people have music from like their iPods or like illegally downloaded mp3s or whatever

01:47:30   Getting that music into the cloud and getting their photos into the cloud and getting them iCloud backups of all their devices

01:47:35   so that when they inevitably destroy them they don't lose their data and

01:47:39   None of these plans help with that at all because Apple's not interested in solving that problem

01:47:43   In fact that the insulting 50 gigabytes of iCloud storage that comes with individual is ridiculous

01:47:50   Like that's that's not enough for anything and then the family goes up into 200 gigabytes

01:47:55   What kind of what kind of families I to iCloud backups of their devices alone fit into 200 gigabytes?

01:48:01   It's totally ridiculous

01:48:03   I guess they just never take any photos or video right even just the backups of their apps if they fill all their phones could

01:48:08   You know and then the two terabyte plan only coming with premiere two terabyte is fine

01:48:12   And by the way Gruber confirmed on his website

01:48:15   He says I am reliably informed that you're able to purchase an additional two terabytes

01:48:20   On top of the two terabytes that you get the premiere

01:48:23   So if you get premiere and you want to pay I'm assuming ten bucks more a month

01:48:27   You can get a total of four terabytes which breaks through the previous ceiling of two terabytes

01:48:30   which is important if you have a ton of photos, but anyway, I

01:48:32   wish there were

01:48:35   Some kind of plan that looked like a bargain to somebody who is thus far refusing to pay for iCloud storage

01:48:43   They gave you enough iCloud storage to be useful

01:48:46   The individual plan looks like a bargain if you're already sold on

01:48:50   Apple music Apple TV plus Apple arcade, but then you get no iCloud storage

01:48:55   Right, and if someone has already sold on those three services

01:48:58   They're probably not the type of person like weirdly Casey who will pay for all sorts of things but won't pay for iCloud storage

01:49:03   There is no plan that's like I don't want to pay for storage if you could say

01:49:07   You know, I don't want to pay five dollars a month in storage

01:49:09   It's like well if you pay $8 a month in storage you get enough storage to solve your storage problems and access to the world's music

01:49:16   I mean

01:49:16   It doesn't work out because that Apple music they have to pay a bunch of people for or maybe Apple arcade like something you did some

01:49:21   Kind of plan that would get more people to stay pay for cloud storage and none of these plans do that

01:49:26   In fact, these plans make it much much more difficult for people to play it for storage. They almost encourage you to

01:49:31   Be stingy with the storage and just get these wonderful services not worry about storing anything

01:49:37   Well, I'm sorry. My photos aren't stored on Apple TV or Apple arcade or Apple music

01:49:41   My photos are either stored on my phone or in iCloud and if I have 50 gigabytes of iCloud storage

01:49:46   It's not gonna work Apple. So this kind of pisses me off for that reason

01:49:50   Like the bundles are great for what they offer

01:49:52   but that problem like Apple had a chance to solve it by

01:49:56   Finally having something they can entice people to get over that hump of pain because look at what a deal it is people love bundles

01:50:02   Sales, look how much I can save the more you buy the more you save

01:50:06   I don't I don't understand the iCloud sizes. It's like it's like putting USB 1.0 on a computer

01:50:11   Isn't it more expensive to give people 50 gigabytes of storage?

01:50:14   It's not like under the allocation size of whatever cloud storage thing you're using to chunk up people. It's like I don't I

01:50:20   know this is weird and knowing people don't care about this, but

01:50:24   there

01:50:26   There is a customer problem that Apple has that they could have solved with this bundle and they didn't instead

01:50:30   They just basically did a more convenient way for people like me to pay for services and maybe get a little bit

01:50:36   You know get a get get there the rich people who are paying for all these services anyway to

01:50:41   Get Apple Fitness Plus and maybe get on board there. I don't think it's gonna help news plus because it's like whatever

01:50:46   Yeah, I'm gonna get news plus, but I'm still never gonna look at it. Sorry Apple. Yeah, I mean where this where this is

01:50:52   You know strategically useful for Apple is that it kind of helps prop up the the less popular or I?

01:50:59   Wouldn't even go so far as to say failing other things might be too early to call anything failing

01:51:03   But certainly like the the weaker offerings so you know for me like you know

01:51:08   I'm I am a you know we are a two terabyte family here like the iCloud storage like we we have

01:51:13   multiple people doing iCloud backups with large photo libraries

01:51:17   So you know we we had to jump to the two terabyte plan a couple years back

01:51:21   And so if you're already doing the two terabyte plan, and if you had Apple music for the family

01:51:27   You're already at 25 bucks a month in

01:51:29   Individual plans premieres 30 and so to basic to match that you basically need to want

01:51:36   arcade or news or TV plus or

01:51:40   Fitness and if you want any of those things it makes sense to buy the premiere bundle then and I think a lot of people

01:51:46   Will do that I think that's gonna be fairly common not it's certainly not the majority of iPhone owners much to Apple chagrin

01:51:52   I think you're right John that so many people who buy iPhones

01:51:56   Have no interest in paying Apple a subscription per month for anything and they resent it

01:52:02   Yes, the fact they just bought this incredibly expensive phone is I can't even back it up

01:52:06   Would you tell me I'm supposed to do for some reason now? I have to pay Apple more money

01:52:09   I just paid them the thousand dollars for this phone. No way

01:52:11   I'm giving them another cent right and they will gladly accept the

01:52:15   Incredibly you know poor user experience of having to constantly fight for iCloud storage because they're on the free

01:52:23   Whatever it is, like, you know, 10 megabytes plan. They're constantly battling that it's a terrible user experience and they don't have photo backups as you mentioned

01:52:31   like

01:52:32   But they wouldn't pay any subscription at any price

01:52:35   The only way to improve their experience is to improve the free offering which I think is very unlikely to happen. So

01:52:41   Unfortunately, like Apple's not going to get those people in any way that Apple would would stomach what these plans do is for people who are

01:52:50   Already willing to pay Apple subscription fees

01:52:53   This makes a more compelling bundle and it helps Apple prop up all of their other smaller unpopular services

01:53:00   so for instance as

01:53:02   We head into the time period in which Apple TV plus is going to start expiring for everybody at the free year

01:53:08   They got from buying last year's phones is gonna expire

01:53:11   There's gonna be a lot of people questioning whether they want to keep Apple TV plus

01:53:14   Hi now if you have a bundle where you can where you're gonna buy

01:53:19   Music and iCloud storage anyway, and it's only a few extra dollars to get TV plus and

01:53:26   Arcade and news and fitness a lot of people are probably gonna choose that option and that'll help keep TV plus going

01:53:32   It'll help keep news plus going which let's be honest is probably not doing great and it'll probably help arcade which again

01:53:40   I I kind of blew by it last week, but I don't think arcade is doing that. Well, I could be wrong

01:53:46   I don't think they've ever actually said anything, but I just I never hear from anybody about a new game

01:53:52   They played on Apple Arcade

01:53:53   I've never hear anybody talking about anything any of those games

01:53:56   Which leads me to believe that not a lot of people are giving a lot of attention

01:53:59   and so I don't I don't think Apple Arcade is doing great, but

01:54:03   If it's part of a big bundle like this look

01:54:06   Amazon Prime TV as a streaming service

01:54:11   Largely sucks and has largely always sucked. There's not a lot of good stuff on Amazon Prime TV streaming

01:54:17   But the reason why it's so popular

01:54:19   By user base is because Amazon Prime is a compelling overall option mostly for the free shipping and stuff

01:54:26   That it has a lot of people in it. Anyway, that's that's the whole value of a bundle

01:54:30   that is like the strategic power of bundling that you can take something that you're gonna sell a bunch of anyway and

01:54:37   Stick a bunch of other crap onto it that will therefore get huge audiences and user bases even if they aren't very good

01:54:44   And so that's why that's one of the reasons why it was important for Apple to do a bundle

01:54:49   because they're trying to launch a whole bunch of different services and some of them are working and some of them are kind of eh and

01:54:54   This will this will massively boost the usage of all of them

01:54:59   Among the people for whom it's worth buying that top tier bundle. So in that point of view

01:55:05   This is going to be I think a great success for Apple services push

01:55:09   Even though it feels a little bit gross on some levels, but like I'm gonna buy it

01:55:13   I'm in because I was already hitting the 30 bucks

01:55:16   I'm already paying for arcade even though I never actually launched any games and I should cancel it and I'm already paying for I guess

01:55:22   I will start paying for TV+ next month even though I've only watched like two TV+ shows, but I still like them

01:55:27   So, you know

01:55:28   This is this is a good time for this and I think it'll do well and it will help prop up all these other services

01:55:33   And give Apple an easy platform with which to launch future services

01:55:37   Like the bundle effect also helps with for things like Apple TV+ like you mentioned Amazon Prime not being a powerhouse video streaming service

01:55:44   But both Apple TV+ and Amazon Prime have a couple of shows that are really good that you'll hear about from friends

01:55:51   Right and the normal move is like I've been doing with CBS all access, which isn't called that anymore

01:55:56   I I kind of you know, unintentionally predicted its demise a couple shows ago. Anyway

01:56:01   It's now Paramount+ stupid anyway

01:56:04   What I would do is I would subscribe watch the series that I heard of my friends talking about then unsubscribe

01:56:09   But when it's part of a bundle it seems like more of a hassle

01:56:12   I've already got the bundle with it in it

01:56:14   I guess I could unsubscribe but then it comes with all the bundles and so should I go with like a lesser bundle and like

01:56:20   It's just like it's you just leave it, right?

01:56:22   It's harder to if you want to individually manage these services you can but that's a hassle you get multiple bills

01:56:28   You gotta remember which ones you're canceling. Oh, we've done watching Ted lasso now we can cancel a cancel Apple TV+

01:56:33   But what about season two just get the bundle and stop thinking about it?

01:56:36   And that's what Apple wants you to do. That's the power of the bundle

01:56:39   Alright, so iPad 8th generation a12 old pencil 329 299 for education

01:56:46   It ships Friday moving on iPad air

01:56:49   I mean, that's basically it for the iPad 8th gen it would come with before the 7th gen was a 10, right?

01:56:56   Yeah, they went from a 10 to a 12. I

01:56:59   Love how incredibly important this product is and yet how incredibly boring it is like good for them

01:57:06   They're finding ways to keep delivering good value to like schools and bulk purchasers and that's great

01:57:11   I it was kind of sad when they said they called it their most popular iPad

01:57:17   I'm like, oh that's that's kind of like it's kind of sad that this is I mean, I know why I you know

01:57:23   It makes sense why but the Apple watch series 3 of iPads well and like, you know, this is true largely

01:57:29   this is this is one of the reason why Tim Cook is the way he is that

01:57:33   Whatever the cheapest product is in a given product line is

01:57:38   Usually the most popular one for Apple like that

01:57:41   Usually the cheapest iPad is the most popular iPad the cheapest MacBook is the most popular MacBook

01:57:45   There's so much of their sales now go to like bulk purchasers like businesses and schools and stuff

01:57:50   Where if you're ordering like a hundred, you know MacBook Air's for your staff or whatever like it's just better

01:57:55   Just get the cheap one and you don't care as a business so much like cost is more important or as a school is buying

01:58:01   5,000 iPads for its entire student body like, you know, you kind of want them to be the cheap ones

01:58:05   So, you know, I understand why it is this way, but it is kind of sad that like, you know, we spend all this time

01:58:12   Obsessing about and focusing on all these nicer higher-end products and Apple spends all the time developing all these nicer higher-end products

01:58:19   But what actually sells for the most part is whatever is cheapest?

01:58:22   Well, it's got two things going against it

01:58:24   One is that we're at a generational boundary kind of like the series 3 and series 5 32 bit 64-bit big screen small screen

01:58:30   Or you know like and so this is this iPad is the last of the old shaped iPads to drift out of the line

01:58:36   It's still in the line for now, but like to Apple's credit

01:58:39   I think the seventh gen was a good product and that they said, okay

01:58:42   Well, we can't this is still going to be the old form factor

01:58:45   But let's make it be able to do all the things so they gave it pencil support

01:58:49   It's the old pencil but hey at least has got pencil support now

01:58:52   They give it a decent processor and give it a decent screen and give it a good touch ID and you know

01:58:56   Like it made it

01:58:58   Viable, but it's so clearly the last generation of iPad and now in the 8th gen they

01:59:04   Gave it to generation newer processor, which makes it stay viable

01:59:08   It is still a viable and still a good product and still has pencil support and it's still the old pencil

01:59:12   But it's so clearly the very last gasp of that form factor. So

01:59:17   when the Apple watch series 3 disappears and all the Apple watches have the good new display with the rounded edges and

01:59:23   Then eventually this will disappear and all the iPads will have the flat sides and we'll be in a much better place

01:59:28   So it's not in this case

01:59:30   Not really the fault of Apple selling the same product forever because they have been updating this and they updated it again

01:59:35   So I think this is actually if you want a cheap iPad don't feel bagged getting his iPad. It's a good iPad, right?

01:59:41   It's you know, it feels good in your hand. It's got good specs for the price

01:59:45   It's very popular and it's quote-unquote sad that you know, they don't get the fancy new one

01:59:50   But this is still a good I still use an iPad shaped kind of like this and I don't feel sad about it

01:59:54   And mine mine does not have an a12 in it. So I still think this is a good product. I think it's probably

01:59:59   Still a little bit overpriced given what they put in it

02:00:02   But only Apple knows what its exact margins on every individual product, right? So I

02:00:08   Think it's fine. But next year the line will make more sense

02:00:10   Well, I would say price wise actually it's it's one of the best values in the lineup like in Apple's entire product lineup

02:00:17   It's it remains one of the best values for sure

02:00:20   Yeah, because it's a very cheap product and it it has good specs like it's it's not terrible

02:00:25   You can play really good games on it and you know

02:00:27   It has an okay ish camera and it's got a pencil that works like the original Apple pencil

02:00:32   Which is actually pretty good and you know, it's it's got all the things

02:00:35   Alright, so then we have the iPad air and I'm really confident. I am NOT in the market for an iPad air

02:00:41   but I

02:00:43   Really think that this might have been the most impressive or perhaps interesting announcement of the entire

02:00:48   hour-long session that we've been talking to hours about but

02:00:52   This is the first appearance of the a14 which is 5 nanometers

02:00:58   It's a 6 core CPU two big boys and four little boys

02:01:03   So two high performance cores and four little cores or energy efficient cores

02:01:09   For core GPU it quote runs more instructions in parallel quote because I guess more execution units more instructions in flight at once

02:01:17   There's a deeper pipeline John. I presume you have something you want to add here. So what would you like to add to that?

02:01:21   Well, you're just reading my notes as if you know what they mean. That's great. I am

02:01:24   It's something that they said in the in the in the mother text things more runs more instructions in parallel

02:01:31   Maybe it's in the presentation they said it but it didn't elaborate and that can mean a lot of different things because this is the very

02:01:36   First device to have the a14. It's the first chance. We get to take a look at like what is the a14?

02:01:41   What does it got so you covered it's I think it's major specs and the important things right more instruct runs more instructions in parallel

02:01:47   That could mean it has more execution units

02:01:49   It could also it could also mean that it just has more instructions in flight at once and that could mean that it has a deeper

02:01:54   Pipeline, but it could mean none of those things or just one of those things or any combination of them

02:01:59   So we still don't really know how what is the 14 have over the a13?

02:02:04   And they mentioned high large high-performance caches. Are they bigger caches than the a13?

02:02:09   Probably but how much bigger and you know, so we have to wait for like an attack or somebody to tear this apart to

02:02:14   Find out what's in it, but they didn't give us some other stats 11.8 billion transistors

02:02:18   Which is 40% more transitions in the a13 and then they did this weird thing during this whole section

02:02:22   Because the iPad air is weird where they made

02:02:27   Comparisons but not to the a13. Yeah, they made comparisons to the iPad air's old chip

02:02:32   Which was I believe the a12 right? Correct

02:02:35   So they they would say it's 40% faster in CPU performance compared to the a12

02:02:41   It's 30% faster in GP for a GPU performance compared to the a12 like not to the a13

02:02:47   And so now you got all those math that you're okay

02:02:49   Well, if the a13 was this much faster than the a12 and you got it also algebra and it's like just Apple

02:02:54   Just tell us I mean we're gonna find out as soon as we get these anyway, but anyway

02:02:57   it's weird because

02:03:00   It's weird that the very first device to have the new

02:03:04   System on a chip with the one bigger number after the a is not the iPhone

02:03:09   according to Mark Gurman who tweeted this the last time this happened the last time a

02:03:13   Non-iphone got the best system on a chip from Apple was nine years ago when the iPad 2 got the a5 before it shipped in

02:03:20   the iPhone for us so

02:03:22   Yeah, you know it's weird like as many people put if it wasn't a COVID times

02:03:26   Maybe this you know, the phone would have been released in September and this wouldn't have been the thing

02:03:30   But the way it worked out the iPad air is the first one to get the a14 the a14

02:03:35   Looks better than the a13. It's way better than the a12 but

02:03:40   nothing

02:03:42   Nothing about it stands out enough for us to know Apple typically did not throw a bunch of benchmarks up on the screen

02:03:47   So I guess we'll have to wait for these to ship to find out. What does this really do?

02:03:51   What is it clocked at how much RAM does it have? How does it compare to the a13 so on and so forth?

02:03:55   But here you go your a14 debut product the middle-of-the-range iPad

02:04:01   Yeah, it's it's kind of

02:04:05   Certainly, there's there's a large question mark of like

02:04:07   Why haven't the iPad pros been meaningfully updated in so long?

02:04:13   When now this comes out and is the best iPad by a lot of measures

02:04:19   It's well, I mean that's the thing people saying oh well the the iPad

02:04:22   Quote-unquote Pro that thing has an a12 in it

02:04:27   It doesn't even have an a13 and this this supposed mid-range one has a 14 14 is bigger than 12

02:04:32   In fact, it's too bigger than 12. That's terrible

02:04:35   This is the new best iPad but those little letters they stick on the end really do mean something the a12z has eight cores

02:04:41   Not six and an eight core GPU not a four core

02:04:45   So it would not surprise me and I believe it's probably going to be the case that the a12z

02:04:49   Stomps all over this particular a14 in any spec that you could care to do a spec test for because it's you know

02:04:55   Maybe not single core, but everything else multi-core and anything having to do GPU. The GPU is literally twice as big now

02:05:01   It's not the same GPU and they aren't the same cores

02:05:03   So it might be closer than you think but I feel like the iPad Pro

02:05:07   Especially with its all all the aid of its GPU cores enabled is still fairly comfortably at the top of the line

02:05:13   the real question is

02:05:15   Why didn't they just wait to update the iPad pros and put a 14 X or Z or Q or P or whatever?

02:05:22   They're gonna be in that one

02:05:23   And I mean the answer to that that makes a lot of sense to me is they're about to ship Apple

02:05:27   Hopes a lot of a 14 chips in iPhones

02:05:30   How many what is their manufacturing capacity for a 14 derived things on this new 5 nanometer process?

02:05:38   This maybe not enough to support the i14 the a14 series something derived from a 14 on the 5 nanometer process

02:05:45   They may not have had enough manufacturing capacity for it to ship

02:05:47   In all their upcoming Macs in all their upcoming iPads and all their upcoming iPhones now granted those three things

02:05:53   I listed the iPhone is the big piece of the pie and then the Mac and the iPad are little tiny things off in the

02:05:58   Corner, so maybe it's not as big as factor as I think but if you have if you don't have enough to go around

02:06:03   And you got to skip somewhere and this is the big year the Mac is the making the transition

02:06:07   Maybe you skimp on the top and iPads

02:06:10   I don't know that I mean even that makes a little sense to me because they probably sell so many more of the the

02:06:15   $329 iPads and I do have the iPad pros, but for whatever reason the iPad Pro is

02:06:21   Off cycle, but that doesn't mean the iPad air is now suddenly the the best or the fastest iPad. It's not it's a

02:06:29   really good one and really interesting and

02:06:32   The iPad Pro will have to be updated eventually

02:06:35   but for now

02:06:37   This middle of the range iPad is more like just below high-end iPad

02:06:41   Yeah, and in other ways it looks awesome like you know this iPad arrow this it looks fantastic

02:06:47   The the only weird thing about it is what it means for the iPad Pro

02:06:51   But the actual iPad air as a product looks pretty great. I mean

02:06:56   You could argue it's better than the iPad Pro in many ways

02:07:00   I think one of the only shortcomings I see about it is

02:07:05   The the speaker system isn't as nice as the pro speaker system, but for other things about it

02:07:11   Oh, and of course no face ID, but to some people that's actually a feature and no promotion. Oh

02:07:16   Sixty Hertz I believe no promotion. It's only 500 nits instead of 600 nits

02:07:21   The screen resolution is slightly lower the USB C interface only transfers at five gigabits not ten gigabits

02:07:29   That's right. There are a bunch of things that you probably don't care about all the cameras in the back

02:07:32   It doesn't have the lidar sensor doesn't have the multiple cameras or whatever like but you know this is this is a really good mid-range

02:07:38   iPad that's pressing up against the high end and if you don't care about all those things that I just listed

02:07:44   So you can save a lot of money and get this thing in colors

02:07:47   and it's a great product the face ID kind of surprises me because

02:07:50   Like of all the places to cut cost like what you can take out face ID

02:07:55   But then you have to put the touch ID thing and and how much are you really saying?

02:07:59   I'm sure face ID is more expensive than that touch sensor, right?

02:08:01   but it just it seems kind of weird to me that that was where they chose to

02:08:05   save cost on this particular product to take out the face ID because I

02:08:10   Don't know

02:08:11   I just maybe I'm just used to the idea that look if you if you if you don't have any buttons on the front you have

02:08:15   To support face ID, but they say no

02:08:17   No

02:08:17   we don't we can

02:08:18   Stick it on this weird button that you're gonna have to hunt for and remember which side of the thing it's on because you know

02:08:23   for all the things that we complained about the

02:08:25   You know

02:08:27   Having the button on the front of the touch ID on the front of the iPad and it being different orientations

02:08:31   You can just look at it and you see where the little button is. You have to stick your finger

02:08:34   But it's kind of hard to see where the the quote-unquote top button is and what side it's on or whatever

02:08:40   You might have to feel around and find it. So

02:08:42   It seems a strange place to save cost to me

02:08:45   But that's what they did and I am excited about the idea of touch ID coming back to any of Apple's products. Really?

02:08:51   You know, there was no phones at this event. Obviously phones are gonna come soon

02:08:56   I haven't been keeping up with the rumors and

02:08:59   It's you know, like you said with the the covert things

02:09:02   It's not as if Apple decided the last minute to stick touch ID on their phones and iPads because of kovat because that's their timelines

02:09:07   Are way longer than that, but I would love it if the new iPhone

02:09:09   Had touch ID into the button and face ID. Yeah, and if this one doesn't have it

02:09:15   I really hope Apple is considering it for the next iPhone or the next next iPhone because they've shown they can do it

02:09:21   We can put touch ID in a power button and boy, wouldn't it be great to have all those options?

02:09:25   Yeah that I I would love that so much to have both and I mean heck maybe that's the plan for the iPad Pro

02:09:32   You know, maybe the next iPad Pro will have both and maybe if they can fit the required stuff into the iPhone

02:09:38   I would jeez I would love that so much because that that would be a godsend with doing like, you know

02:09:43   Masked outings shopping and everything that like it would be so great and even you know

02:09:49   Even before kovat, you know, even even in the last just in the last few years using face ID

02:09:54   There are times when face ID doesn't work, right and there are times and touch ID doesn't work, right?

02:09:59   it would be great to have iOS devices that will put that provide both and

02:10:04   either allow you to unlock with whichever one recognizes you first or if you want some super secure like ultra mode you can have it require

02:10:13   Both and to have that be an option would be would be awesome

02:10:16   You don't have any idea why the screen resolution is lower to hear the numbers. It's it's

02:10:22   360 by 1649 and the iPad Pro of a similar size is

02:10:27   2388 by 1668 the iPad Air screen size is quoted as 10.9 inches instead of 11

02:10:35   So it's it's got to be just like slightly smaller of a screen. That's it

02:10:38   It's just the same DPI and they just shaved pixels off the edge. How I guess all the apps scale now

02:10:42   So it's not an issue anymore for my pad OS apps and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's just it's weird

02:10:48   I mean

02:10:48   it's just it's based on whatever panels they could get in the right quantity with the right attributes because the

02:10:52   Panel is it's true tone p3 anti-reflective coding

02:10:55   Like it's you should go to Apple put a link in the show on samples like product configurator

02:11:00   When you go down the list of comparing the features

02:11:02   You'll be surprised how many things the pro has that the air doesn't and you may also be surprised by how little you care about

02:11:07   Those things right like lots and lots of areas. There are specs that are missing. There's features like I said, there's no LIDAR

02:11:13   There's no second camera in the back

02:11:15   It's just you know

02:11:16   There's no portrait mode animoji or memo G because there's no face ID sensors in the front

02:11:20   So it can't do that depth stuff like, you know, the two speakers instead of the four

02:11:24   Like there are tons of things that are lesser about this than the pro including I still think even the a14

02:11:31   you know in sure in terms of raw horsepower when you're using all of it, but

02:11:37   This this product is just waiting for

02:11:40   The next iPad Pro to come that's gonna have all the iPad Pro features and in 8 or 12 core a14

02:11:49   Q processor of the hell it's gonna be this is gonna be a monster, right?

02:11:53   Plus all the R max and we don't know what they're gonna have in them

02:11:56   So this is a preview of things to come and a great deal on a flat sided iPad that uses the new pencil

02:12:03   If you don't care about all that stuff that is listed for the pro

02:12:07   If you can't if you can't tell it between 500 and 600 nits of brightness get this one

02:12:11   It'll be it'll be great. I could I even you know, I'm perpetually, you know

02:12:17   Somewhat in the market for a new iPad since mine is so old and I was thinking about like

02:12:21   Do I care about any of the pro features?

02:12:24   maybe I should get this one because I kind of like the idea of touch ID, but I

02:12:27   Just I think I'm just gonna wait but that's just me personally

02:12:31   but if you if you are in the market for an iPad and

02:12:34   Any of the attributes of the flat sided ones appeal to you the air is this is a great time to buy the air because never

02:12:40   Will it be this this high in the in the lineup in terms of performance and price and all that other stuff?

02:12:47   Now we didn't mention this also comes in colors and not just like no three comes in what rose gold green blue silver and gray

02:12:55   Yeah, good for them on that. It's about time agreed agreed

02:12:58   Especially since on this one

02:13:00   This is another thing I don't like about the flat sided iPads and seeing touch ID on the power button

02:13:04   Made this make a little bit more sense to me

02:13:06   The flat sided iPads all have these sandwich cases

02:13:09   They just put a flat thing on the back and a flat thing on the front but nothing on the sides

02:13:13   I don't care about the naked sides. What I care about is this sort of you know

02:13:17   The edges of the Oreo cookie sticking off on the edge, you know

02:13:19   But it's like sharp edges right because you've got the little flange edges of the case and then the smooth metal of the sides

02:13:26   From the edges. I don't like that sandwich feeling I don't like sharp top and bottom edges and metal middle

02:13:33   I'd rather have it be curved and nice right obviously they didn't can cover one side because you stick the pencil there, right?

02:13:39   But they could have covered all the other sides

02:13:41   But now you got another place where you can't really

02:13:43   Put too much case because yeah

02:13:45   You could you could shove your finger down into a little touch ID belly button to get to it

02:13:48   But it's a lot easier to use touch ID when it's just on the naked metal sticking out

02:13:52   Like we all had the phones with the touch ID in the front of it

02:13:55   If you ever tried to use a case that

02:13:56   Surrounded the touch ID button it became as linty little belly button

02:13:59   Then you have to shove your finger down into to get it to the touch ID sensor and that was

02:14:02   More awkward these sort of I was gonna say intangible. It was the opposite

02:14:06   They're literally tangible these tangible feelings of using a device

02:14:10   How does it feel in your hands is?

02:14:12   I feel like profoundly influenced by the shape of the device in the shape of the case and these flat-sided iPads while they look awesome

02:14:19   And are great for attaching accessories and working as little portable computers

02:14:22   I think the case the sandwich case design

02:14:25   makes them less pleasant to hold in your hand if you're using still using it like a an

02:14:29   Old-school iPad user and not as like a floppy laptop

02:14:35   Also, though the iPad air is super super impressive and yeah, if you're even remotely in the market for an iPad

02:14:42   I would really take a strong close look at this. They have all the neat colors. They have you know the nice

02:14:49   I like the flat sides personally

02:14:52   They work with all the accessories the cool keyboard with the magic one

02:14:55   I don't forget the names of the magic keyboard with the cool hinge thingy and all the other

02:14:58   Cases like all that stuff works with this. It's all USB C. It's you know, that's

02:15:03   It looks kind of sad when you see that one single camera parking it out of that huge camera hole in Apple's accessories

02:15:08   But they all fit they all do fit so to Apple's credit

02:15:11   It's not you know

02:15:12   You can you you can buy these

02:15:13   Accessories and use them with the iPad air or the iPad pros and presumably for a while to come if they continue to make

02:15:19   iPads in this shape

02:15:20   Yeah, so I'm I thought it looked really really good. So overall I think

02:15:26   outside of the March ever

02:15:30   The ever forward March towards services revenue. I thought the the presentation was pretty darn good and

02:15:36   Nothing was earth-shattering to me. Although the iPad air does look really good

02:15:41   But all told I think it was a pretty good presentation and I'm satisfied with it

02:15:47   It just makes me though even more excited and and I'm just salivating for the next iPhones

02:15:54   I don't know what I expect from them, but I'm just ready to see it. Yeah, me too

02:15:58   Yeah, I thought they were all good products like, you know, they're this needs to be picked with all them

02:16:02   But this is exactly what I want to see from

02:16:04   Updates make all your things better in the ways that I expect you to make them better for the one or two cool things

02:16:10   They did it. Good job. Thanks for sponsors this week

02:16:13   Squarespace stripe and door deck and thank you to our members whose report us directly

02:16:19   You can do that yourself at ATP that FM slash join if you'd like and we will talk to you next week

02:16:27   Now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental

02:16:34   It was accidental

02:16:37   John did any research Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental

02:16:44   Was accidental

02:16:47   And you can find the show notes at ATP

02:16:51   FM and if you're into Twitter

02:16:56   You can follow them at

02:16:58   Cas

02:17:00   ey l

02:17:02   Iss so that's Casey lists ma RC o a RM

02:17:06   anti Marco Arman

02:17:09   sir AC

02:17:12   USAC recuse

02:17:14   It's accidental

02:17:16   Oh

02:17:27   There's one more thing Marco iOS 14 is shipping tomorrow, which is actually today surprise

02:17:33   Yeah, what if what a move what what a cap to the summer? Let's not let's not

02:17:40   Focus on this too much. I've been in a pretty good mood all night

02:17:44   I don't want to ruin it. Yeah, I don't think I don't think this is definitely actually a bad mood thing

02:17:49   So here's the thing regular users of Apple's products don't know or care anything about this like it's just a developer concern

02:17:55   It's a developer relations concern that developers expect to have the final release of the OS

02:17:59   Before it ships so they can get their stuff ready for it, right?

02:18:01   And there's usually a couple days lead time up to a couple of weeks or you know a week or whatever

02:18:05   Like we'll put a link in the show notes to will Haynes has on his website a graph of how long

02:18:10   We usually have for the GM's right it shows a bunch of different color-coded things and at the end of each line graph is

02:18:15   a little dark gray bar that shows how long the GM was out for and

02:18:18   This is a new record of like less than 24 hours basically right which is not ideal for developers

02:18:24   Users don't care

02:18:25   But it may impact them if they you know get iOS

02:18:28   14 and one of their favorite apps doesn't work because that developer expected to be able to ship on day one

02:18:33   But it turns out they couldn't and turns out their current version doesn't work with iOS 14

02:18:37   It's just a you know, it's not corporate relationship managers. This is just developer relations just

02:18:42   Apple

02:18:45   Either doesn't know that what a scramble is gonna put developers in or Apple thinks

02:18:51   Yeah, it's a scramble, but we had to do it and we feel bad about it, but it'll all be over shortly

02:18:55   I mean, it's not the end of the world, but it's just another fumble like another fumble in Apple's

02:19:02   Recent history of not great developer relations and the the tea leave reading among among the people who are

02:19:08   Developer adjacent and care about this is like well. Why Apple? Why would why couldn't you do this? Why not just like

02:19:13   Ship everything like two days later or three days later like what's the big rush right because developers don't expect to have months of time

02:19:20   With the final release, but they expect that you know a few days

02:19:22   Maybe a week or whatever less than 24 hours seems extreme and we we understand

02:19:27   Why they hold back the GM because you could look at the GM and find out all these features that we just talked about that

02:19:31   Were previously secret, right?

02:19:33   But you can do the announcement

02:19:35   Give developers the GM and then say everything ships in two days and then the developers get two extra days

02:19:40   So this is just a silly unforced error amongst much larger

02:19:46   developer relations issues it just

02:19:49   It came at a bad time for them kind of like the hey controversy happening right before

02:19:54   WWDC something like this happening when developers are already kind of cranky at Apple's is not great

02:19:59   But this too will pass fairly quickly and this isn't this is not a unlike all the other things we talk about

02:20:04   This is not a systemic problem where Apple's constantly releasing GM's 24 hours at a time

02:20:09   This is literally the first time this has ever happened with iOS. So

02:20:11   Live and learn hopefully Apple will

02:20:14   Yeah, and honestly like, you know people expect me to rail against this a lot and yeah, you know what it does suck

02:20:20   But I will take this

02:20:22   Over iOS 13's release any day as long as I was 14 works better than 13

02:20:29   We'll live with it even developers iOS 13's release was so horrendous in so many other ways

02:20:35   Not least of which because it was buggy but also because it was so buggy it broke our apps in weird ways

02:20:40   Like there were actually like weird behaviors and our apps in the common things like navigation bars

02:20:45   That shipped at iOS 13.0 and I think 13.1 even broke more things like it's easy to forget. It's

02:20:52   This is like it's like wouldn't you know when you forget how much labor hurts?

02:20:57   So you have a second kid like it's so easy for us to block out how bad iOS 13's launch was last year

02:21:04   It was so rough in so many ways ladies. You can email Marco for comparing iOS 13 development. It's a child labor

02:21:12   yeah, this is a

02:21:14   massive improvement over last year

02:21:16   Admittedly, this is again like, you know, it's like making the path smoother and hell but still like this is a huge improvement from last year

02:21:23   So while it was ill-conceived timing by Apple like I again, I don't think they mean to be jerks with this stuff

02:21:30   I think they just don't think about it

02:21:33   Like I think they honestly they aren't concerned or at least

02:21:36   The people who are concerned don't have don't have the power to override the hardware schedule, you know

02:21:41   Like so I think they just they are oblivious to how much they how much work they cause for us

02:21:47   Unnecessarily and on short notice. Yeah, it's probably some kind of math like every day

02:21:52   We were to put things on sale approaching the holidays cost us X amount of money right is therefore therefore

02:21:58   We're gonna ship right after the keynote instead of waiting two days because those two days cost us this amount of money

02:22:02   But you know, hopefully developers will all

02:22:04   Send grumpy feedback and maybe at that equation will balance differently next year

02:22:09   Obviously every the other thing is of course kovat everything is screwed up in this schedule. The phones are delayed

02:22:13   You know the phones aren't being announced in the September event like they normally would like everything's all messed up, right?

02:22:19   So, you know, I think people do give Apple some leeway in this but if but if it turns out to be that simple

02:22:25   Cost-benefit analysis of it costs us X amount of dollars to delay these launches and it costs us Y amount of negative feedback from developers

02:22:33   And Apple chooses in terms of the money. That's not great

02:22:37   yeah, but honestly like I bet I bet that didn't even factor in to the decision as much as

02:22:43   Whoever made the call to do that probably just didn't even think about what it would be like for outside developers

02:22:49   This is this is always the problem with Apple like they the people inside

02:22:52   Don't have any idea what it's like to be outside. They really truly don't and they are so

02:23:00   blind to

02:23:03   The real world of what we actually face with lots of things from you know

02:23:08   APIs like they because they don't need to use only public APIs in many ways many public APIs

02:23:13   Just they actually don't use it all like watch kit

02:23:16   You know dealing with the App Store dealing with a lot of the provisioning profile crap that I was talking about earlier like

02:23:24   There's all sorts of stuff that Apple's internal employees don't need to deal with directly themselves usually and so therefore they are

02:23:31   Totally blind to the problems that exist there in the challenges exist there

02:23:36   And I bet this the timing of this GM being you know

02:23:39   Less than 24 hours before the OS is released. I bet it wasn't them trying to be jerks

02:23:45   It might not have even been them

02:23:47   You know thinking well

02:23:48   It'll cost too much to delay it any further

02:23:50   The most likely explanation for this is that they are so oblivious to what it's like being a developer outside of Apple that they didn't even

02:23:57   think about it

02:23:58   And this is common for companies. I've worked lots of different big companies, and it's like there is a

02:24:05   concerted effort inside most good companies

02:24:07   To try to do what you just described Marco, which is like. What is it like for our customers?

02:24:12   What is the experience of being our customer? How do our customers see us?

02:24:16   You know what do they experience like and you would think well doesn't every don't ever isn't that easy things no because you say it

02:24:22   It's like Apple should know what like what it's like to be outside of Apple

02:24:25   It's surprisingly hard to know what it's like for the people outside your company when you're in the company

02:24:30   Because you're not the customer you're you're the company making this stuff

02:24:33   and so there's all this time and money and effort and

02:24:36   personnel put towards the good companies put towards the idea of

02:24:40   Help us figure out what it's like to be our customers

02:24:43   So we know how to change our products because people have all sorts of reckons inside the company about you know

02:24:48   Well, we should do this because our customers, but it's like, but what do our what do our customers actually say?

02:24:53   What do they actually want? What do they actually experience?

02:24:55   What are their actual pain points that of us just guessing or trying to use metrics of like let's measure where they click and we'll?

02:25:00   Figure it out. It's like you have to talk to them

02:25:02   You have to bring people from outside the company in who have experience out that kind of like the pro workflow team, right?

02:25:07   What is it like for the customers or our pro tools Apple solved that problem by saying we we obviously don't know

02:25:13   We have to get people who have a career outside the company using tools like ours

02:25:18   And then hire them and say your whole job is to use our stuff and say if you were one of our customers

02:25:23   Which you previously were very recently tell us what it's like to use this. What's actually important to you. What do you care about? So?

02:25:29   It's actually not easy and not trivial we

02:25:32   Feel when you when you're the customer you're like how can Apple not know what we're feeling because we're feeling it

02:25:38   And we're all and we're numerous and there are many of us and if they wanted to know they could just ask and here we are

02:25:41   We're yelling at them

02:25:42   They just don't seem to get through to them right so Apple obviously could do a better job at this

02:25:46   But it is actually a fairly tricky problem to figure out

02:25:49   What it is like to be on the outside, and it takes a lot of effort

02:25:53   I think Apple probably does expend effort doing that just either

02:25:57   Insufficient or not well directed, but things like the pro workflow team as we talked about when it was formed show things headed in the better direction

02:26:05   Right first taking the feedback that hey you can should continue to make pro

02:26:09   Products and you know maybe put more ports in them. We're working on it still and then second like we we need outside help

02:26:16   Let's hire a bunch of people in the industry to work for Apple

02:26:20   I think I've done a lot of that in health to hiring people from like the health world to work on their health products

02:26:24   And I think it shows and the stuff they've been making dev relations still ripe for some

02:26:29   advancement in that area

02:26:32   (beeping)