00:00:00 ◼ ► Were you bitten by a radioactive spider? Speaking of spiders? Because you could be gaining superhuman hearing abilities.
00:00:06 ◼ ► Can you like run much faster and leap higher than you could before as well? Can you see through walls?
00:00:11 ◼ ► Imagine what a curse it would be to get superhuman hearing but only for fan noise. I think I already have that.
00:00:33 ◼ ► Coincidentally, I actually have had a slight problem with my iMac Pro which we'll talk about later.
00:00:39 ◼ ► But Marco, tell me what terrible tragedy is befalling your iMac Pro that's going to necessitate a replacement with a Mac Pro?
00:00:55 ◼ ► Yeah, I've started hearing the fan a lot more often. It started to spin up a lot more to audible levels.
00:01:02 ◼ ► Like for the first, so I've had the computer for what about two years now? For the first like, you know,
00:01:12 ◼ ► Recently, every time I do like a big build in Xcode, it spins up very noticeably for a while.
00:01:20 ◼ ► So I'm assuming it's probably just full of dust and I don't really know how to clean it out.
00:01:26 ◼ ► I figure like, you know, obviously besides taking it to an Apple service provider, which I don't want to do,
00:01:30 ◼ ► is maybe if I like take it down from my desk and blow compressed air through its exhaust vent.
00:01:37 ◼ ► My theory is maybe if I blow canned air into the exhaust vent, it'll force all the dust and crap out the intake vents.
00:01:43 ◼ ► Hmm, maybe. You should look at that. You should take a look at the geometry of the inside of that thing before you...
00:02:05 ◼ ► I'm gonna be very upset because one of the things I love most about this computer is I never hear it.
00:02:10 ◼ ► And now I hear it frequently and that's, that's very, very annoying. But it's a very recent thing,
00:02:18 ◼ ► Remember I told you that my Mac Pro is louder just at idle than an iMac at idle because the fans are not like
00:02:53 ◼ ► Unfortunately, they haven't. Because yeah, like if I was gonna, if I really, if for some reason this problem can't be fixed,
00:02:58 ◼ ► if my iMac Pro is just getting flaky because it's two years old, which it sure shouldn't, but you know,
00:03:05 ◼ ► then I would honestly, like if looking at the current lineup, I think I would still honestly just buy another iMac Pro.
00:03:25 ◼ ► Whoop in the chat says, this is the computing equivalent to my ashtray is full, new car time.
00:03:31 ◼ ► I think it follows under the category of, oh compressed air, is there anything you can't fix?
00:03:52 ◼ ► Goodness, I don't even want to think about it. No, the funny thing about this is, for a fleeting moment
00:04:05 ◼ ► somebody pointed out to me, or maybe I saw, I think it was a Insta story that MKBHD put up a day or two back,
00:04:14 ◼ ► janky and laggy mouse movement that I was seeing on my old iMac, and he was seeing this, if I recall correctly, on either the Mac Pro
00:04:25 ◼ ► Was it a laptop? John, defend your honor there. So anyways, I saw that and was like, oh, yeah
00:04:39 ◼ ► I have had like cursor jumping around like when I try to use the Bluetooth mouse with a
00:04:48 ◼ ► but delayed by like half a second from the input motion, and I have not experienced that. I've experienced it where you try to move it
00:04:55 ◼ ► and it jumps from one place on the screen to another instead of moving a smooth line, but that is very weird.
00:05:06 ◼ ► Very weird. Well, Marco, I'm sorry to hear that your iMac Pro needs to be replaced with a Mac Pro.
00:05:13 ◼ ► I'm glad that this difficult time where you didn't have a justification for it is now over.
00:05:35 ◼ ► But we should start with some follow-up as per the rules. Marco, tell me about AirPods and in-flight entertainment systems, if you don't mind.
00:05:42 ◼ ► I basically said how much I love the AirPods Pro and how I really don't plan on bringing any other headphones on planes for
00:05:50 ◼ ► so much smaller than full-size noise cancelling headphones that the travel benefit of the small size and the performance of the noise cancelling is
00:06:02 ◼ ► what if you want to listen to the in-flight entertainment system that basically like one of the reasons why they still carry
00:06:10 ◼ ► headphones that can be wired is that they like to plug in and you know watch movies on the little screens that are in the
00:06:25 ◼ ► I always bring my own entertainment like I bring either an iPad or a laptop or both and I
00:06:31 ◼ ► will watch videos on that if I want to watch something. It's it just never really came up for me
00:06:41 ◼ ► plug into the headphone jack of the airplane and they will broadcast a Bluetooth signal to a pair of Bluetooth headphones that you have.
00:06:52 ◼ ► whether the AirPods could pair to it or not because I don't know how the pairing really works there.
00:07:04 ◼ ► But most of those headphones also can be wired optionally so it's you're better off to doing that.
00:07:11 ◼ ► I think I would probably bring my AirPods or AirPods Pro and then bring one of my 84 old
00:07:26 ◼ ► enjoyable way to watch anything on a plane, but if I am slumming it to the point that I'm watching the in-flight entertainment
00:07:32 ◼ ► then at that point all bets are off because I'm like you Marco not only do I likely have a computer
00:07:43 ◼ ► So yeah, this is not a problem that I find myself having but it is an interesting point nonetheless.
00:07:53 ◼ ► whatever you want to bring with you on your laptop or iPad or whatever not only do you probably have
00:07:57 ◼ ► better stuff that you enjoy better and you probably have a bigger selection available if you've prepared at all, but also
00:08:05 ◼ ► not only larger but also better quality like the screens and airplane seats are so bad there
00:08:12 ◼ ► they must be like TN panels like they have terrible viewing angles and terrible contrast and they just look terrible and they're so
00:08:25 ◼ ► rarely are those correctly volume leveled to the content that plays back on the in-flight entertainment system
00:08:32 ◼ ► so usually what happens is if you turn the volume up enough to hear speech in the movie you're watching
00:08:57 ◼ ► I'd rather even watch a movie on my phone than watch on the in-flight entertainment system
00:09:05 ◼ ► The only thing that the in-flight entertainment screens are for is in my opinion is either to be off if it's a dark flight or
00:09:35 ◼ ► That now during the flight the in-flight crew comes on and makes long announcements that our credit card offers. Oh, yeah
00:09:46 ◼ ► You know, so not only are the are the people speaking credit card offers to you using the same
00:09:52 ◼ ► Announcement system that they speak important flight information and critical instructions, but then also then they walk down the aisle
00:09:58 ◼ ► Holding up this like brochure and offering it's like and you can tell the flight attendants don't want to do this
00:10:04 ◼ ► Like, you know, you can you can see it in their eyes like they're doing this because they have to they don't want to do
00:10:08 ◼ ► It that's not their job. It shouldn't be their job, but their job is making them do it, right?
00:10:24 ◼ ► 10 seconds at every minute and the rest of the time it's cycling through like billboard ads
00:10:36 ◼ ► Well the screens to your point a few minutes ago. The screen quality was never good even when they were brand new
00:10:44 ◼ ► Friend of the show jelly just sent me, you know, it's basically in-flight push notifications
00:11:04 ◼ ► everybody had their own smartphones and everything in their pockets anyway all the time and and right before everybody had Wi-Fi everywhere and everything and
00:11:13 ◼ ► when Virgin America first came out and you could message someone else in like, you know
00:11:19 ◼ ► Like if you were sitting separately from some other member of your family or party you could like message
00:11:26 ◼ ► Weirdest idea it was a weird idea, but it was very interesting, you know, I have to point out
00:11:32 ◼ ► I don't remember what airline it was and honestly doesn't matter but on a couple of the flights I've flown in the last year
00:11:37 ◼ ► There's been some deal I think via t-mobile, but it doesn't really matter some way somehow
00:11:46 ◼ ► For free even if you didn't play for it pay for in-flight Wi-Fi, which I thought was extremely cool
00:11:52 ◼ ► That was very very nice and it just reminded me again that half well like Erin's entire side of the family is on
00:12:00 ◼ ► But for those of us who are on iMessage that was really really convenient and really nice
00:12:05 ◼ ► And I thought that that was a very nice middle of the road between screw you give us 15 to 25 to 35 dollars for
00:12:11 ◼ ► In-flight Wi-Fi and you know, oh, yeah, everything's free. We you know, I thought it was a very good middle of the road
00:12:31 ◼ ► SSL so that if you're in a captive portal Wi-Fi thing like on many planes I had to actually do this because like
00:12:36 ◼ ► Normally the Apple Wi-Fi thing should detect when you're in a captive portal and it should put a little slide up thing up
00:12:50 ◼ ► And so you have to you know, go type in like, you know, google.com or whatever and then you know
00:12:54 ◼ ► It'll it'll capture that and redirect you to their login page. You can log into the Wi-Fi
00:12:58 ◼ ► well, you can't do that anymore with SSL everywhere and most browsers won't even attempt to go to like google.com because it'll use
00:13:05 ◼ ► HSTS or something and so like there's actually a site never SSL comm that is never served over SSL
00:13:26 ◼ ► HTTP calm if you prefer prefer the reverse logic. Yeah glass half full half empty. Yeah, that's very good
00:13:35 ◼ ► This was with regard to our conversation last episode about how Marco and I don't really feel like there's any point to our big cameras
00:13:41 ◼ ► Anymore, that's a summary you get the idea. Oh god, please don't email us based on that summary. Yeah, please don't email
00:13:58 ◼ ► I would argue the iPhone is worse ergonomics than any physical camera currently for sale
00:14:05 ◼ ► but certainly the point the broad point is absolutely true that the ergonomics of trying to
00:14:10 ◼ ► Physically operate the iPhone as a camera is not great, but I stand by what Marco and I were saying that for
00:14:23 ◼ ► Because an area for possible improvement, I mean we know that the battery case has the camera activation button to launch the camera app
00:14:29 ◼ ► Which is a step in the right direction because when you need to quickly take out your phone and use it as a camera
00:14:47 ◼ ► Tap something on the screen if you don't want to use like the volume button shutter or whatever
00:14:52 ◼ ► But depending on how you have it oriented you might not know where all that stuff is gonna be
00:15:03 ◼ ► Launch the camera app and use it to take a photo that makes the phone a more valuable more useful camera
00:15:10 ◼ ► And I think you can do some of that without making like the phone making it phone the phone camera shaped
00:15:21 ◼ ► But you know not just the one that launches the thing but a dedicated shutter button other than using volume and maybe multiple buttons
00:15:42 ◼ ► The reason that's so popular is it's better ergonomics for using the phone in a particular way not for pictures in that case
00:15:49 ◼ ► But just you know for very large phones being held in one hand safely and securely right
00:16:14 ◼ ► Something like a smart connector or other kind of sort of smooth contacts on the naked robotic core that is the iPhone
00:16:41 ◼ ► Easier with blindfolded than I could with a phone and certainly more securely like in if I was timed and said get it out quick
00:16:57 ◼ ► It's very clear where the gigantic lens is pointed and where the shutter button is and whether it's on or off and all that other
00:17:04 ◼ ► You'd have to take it out and feel around with it to find where it find where the camera is make sure it's facing the
00:17:08 ◼ ► Right direction make sure you know is the camera in the upper left upper right lower left or lower right corner because sometimes that matters
00:17:14 ◼ ► When you're taking a picture, so I look forward to I haven't been keeping track of the rumors
00:17:19 ◼ ► But I look forward to a future iPhone. Maybe not this new redesign, but maybe the one after that
00:17:29 ◼ ► Alright, let's talk about Scott Simpson and jumpy mice John. Can you tell me about this?
00:17:35 ◼ ► Yeah, we're gonna talk more about mice later, but remember when I first got my Mac Pro was saying how I'd hooked up the little
00:17:48 ◼ ► Put it in the back of my computer. It was getting terrible signal my cursor was jumping all over so I used instead
00:18:11 ◼ ► The one and a half foot distance between the back of the computer and top of the computer surely is not accounting
00:18:16 ◼ ► You know that doesn't explain the incredible difference in signal quality that I was getting so here's the actual explanation. I find this
00:18:42 ◼ ► Can have an impact on radio receivers whose antennas are placed close to a USB 3.0 device and or USB 3.0 connector
00:18:55 ◼ ► Straightforward like to do a bunch of tests to say here if you put something near a USB 3 port that has data going through it
00:19:03 ◼ ► The act of the data going through that port will cause interference with things on a similar spectrum so
00:19:11 ◼ ► wasn't working on the back of my computer because guess what is right next to a USB 3 port that was connected to like my
00:19:31 ◼ ► That it doesn't cause radio interference for the things that it's not just the devices the ports the ports themselves if they're not well shielded or
00:19:38 ◼ ► Not ridiculously well she did even the devices they experiment where they were like wrapping the external SSD and tin foil
00:19:45 ◼ ► Or some kind of foil to try to keep the noise the USB 3.0 generated noise from coming out of that
00:19:50 ◼ ► This is I feel like this is the type of thing you should figure out before you release the standard to the world
00:20:04 ◼ ► And that's that's why it was different when it was on the top because the signal the interference
00:20:09 ◼ ► Decreases rapidly as you move away from the the port or the device so being on top of the computer
00:20:15 ◼ ► It wasn't like it was closer to the mouse. It was farther from the USB 3.0 point that had a lot of data going through it
00:20:23 ◼ ► If you're wondering why you get bad signal for your little RF receiver for your logitech mouse or you're getting other weird
00:20:30 ◼ ► Behavior and you have a bunch of USB 3.0 peripherals and or cables read this paper and see if any of the solutions they recommend
00:20:37 ◼ ► Help you. I just like knowing what's going on, but boy. This is I hope USB 4 doesn't have similar problems
00:20:44 ◼ ► I'm sure it'll have even better and newer problems for us to contend a lot of problems without a space USB 4 no space
00:20:52 ◼ ► All right, let's talk about photo sharing a little bit more follow-up there a Mario Panagetti says you can send iCloud photo links to people
00:21:03 ◼ ► They'll just get a zip download of all the photos and my testing Android phones don't always know what to do with this surprise surprise
00:21:07 ◼ ► Andrew Elliott writes also it creates a public web page viewable viewable by any browser which expires within 30 days and finally Jared counts writes
00:21:16 ◼ ► I recently sent some photos to my wife via iCloud slash iMessage if she opened the link on her phone
00:21:22 ◼ ► But opening the link on her Mac showed a page with a download button for a zip file as Mario had mentioned
00:21:27 ◼ ► So all a little bit more feedback on photo sharing which was an ask ATP a couple of weeks ago
00:21:31 ◼ ► John this is something about destiny don't care. Let's talk about rack mount Mac pros. It's not about destiny
00:21:43 ◼ ► Why I care someday one of your children is gonna complain that they want to use their ps4 controller to play Minecraft on one of your max
00:22:05 ◼ ► But as soon as I launched the game the game couldn't see it because the game itself had its own notions about
00:22:10 ◼ ► Connecting to the ps4 controller and I had to plug it in well apparently there is a wireless adapter that very kind of like the
00:22:21 ◼ ► Makes your computer think that it has a wired ps4 controller plugged into it and really it's got a little
00:22:28 ◼ ► Transmitter or receiver pair that make that happen and apparently if you buy the one from Japan it's cheaper
00:22:34 ◼ ► So we'll put a link in the show notes if you'd like to use your ps4 controller wirelessly
00:22:44 ◼ ► Wired connection this will fake it out. You know I will say as much as I'm giving you junk about this I
00:22:51 ◼ ► Was trying to use I don't remember the name of the emulator, but I was trying to use a Mac based emulator to
00:23:12 ◼ ► I Mac was the last time I tried this and it was a pain in the hindquarters trying to get that to work and
00:23:29 ◼ ► I think there's at least a couple, but maybe this would be another solution to my problem a
00:23:32 ◼ ► Ps4 controllers will just pair directly to your Mac. I think with no anything like I know you're talking about like the
00:23:39 ◼ ► Made for iPhone rather that whatever they are the ones that work with iOS devices right but for the Mac
00:23:46 ◼ ► I think both ps4 and Xbox controls will just pair just you go and you put them into pairing mode go into Bluetooth you connect
00:23:53 ◼ ► I think the problem was I was doing with the switch pro controller, and that's where I fell in my face
00:23:55 ◼ ► That's not one of I think that's not one of the ones that's on the list of things that just get supported out of the box
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00:25:53 ◼ ► But this is the next step the rackmount Mac Pro that has been on the on the page for a long time
00:25:58 ◼ ► But you could never actually click the configure button now you can click configure and
00:26:02 ◼ ► Really the options look basically the same except that it starts at $6,500 and start instead of starting at
00:26:14 ◼ ► It shows the front which is a bunch of holes and two smaller handles for pulling out the rack
00:26:20 ◼ ► Or you know the cutaway which looks like it's the basically the same motherboard with the same components in the same places
00:26:29 ◼ ► I hope I fix it gets one of these and tears it down, but I can't maybe it's just dead space in front of it
00:26:44 ◼ ► Same scalloped cheese grater hole pattern instead it just looks like it has a much more sort of
00:26:53 ◼ ► Previous generation cheese grater pattern is just a flat piece of metal with a bunch of holes punched in it a bunch of very tiny
00:26:59 ◼ ► Holes punched in it so if you want to pay $500 for a bigger Mac Pro that can fit in a rack now you finally can
00:27:12 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean maybe I wonder I guess if you buy it it probably does they probably do consider it the 2019 Mac Pro
00:27:38 ◼ ► Configuration its own product name like this. It's probably considered still the Mac Pro. Just it happens to be in a radically different case
00:27:50 ◼ ► I forgot to talk about when talking about my products by XDR is that it comes with true tone
00:27:54 ◼ ► I'm so out of the loop on other options does the iMac Pro or any of the iMacs have a true tone option
00:28:03 ◼ ► So I think for true tone what you obviously you need the sensors yeah, and maybe there's just those don't exist
00:28:11 ◼ ► The XDR has true tone and so playing with the monitor when I first got it is one of the things I considered
00:28:17 ◼ ► And you know what's what's your both of your positions on true tone on all your devices that supported mostly iOS devices
00:28:38 ◼ ► I think it's now disabled on my stuff, but yeah night shift used to be a much bigger effect
00:28:55 ◼ ► It's kind of one of those things like when it first came out. I was like do I really want something trying to mess with
00:29:00 ◼ ► The colors based on what it thinks about the environmental colors. It's not gonna look weird sometimes
00:29:04 ◼ ► Would I rather just have the screen just do accurate colors all the time regardless of my ambient light, but I?
00:29:17 ◼ ► And I don't notice any difference that that means that like the light hitting my eyes in contrast to the surrounding light
00:29:24 ◼ ► You know should I'm not optimizing for the accuracy of what is emitted. I'm optimizing for the accuracy of
00:29:31 ◼ ► What gets to my eyeballs which includes some reflected light, and I don't know so anyway
00:29:39 ◼ ► I'm gonna be editing photos on here do I want this thing messing with the photos, so I've tried it on and off
00:29:44 ◼ ► And it's the type of thing where if you turn it on you very quickly stop and noticing that it's on
00:29:52 ◼ ► But as soon as you turn it off you're like wow that's a big color difference and usually it's usually shifting it more
00:30:10 ◼ ► Thing is it has a nice fade effect - it doesn't just switch immediately like I just turned it off and I was like
00:30:23 ◼ ► Like for a second things start to look a little yellow, but then everything acclimates, and I don't know it's it's
00:30:36 ◼ ► Think if like I'm a sunny day with all the windows open or the blinds open that it'll basically be the same
00:30:42 ◼ ► But at night with this weird artificial lighting on the second thing is is there's two different presets that come with this
00:31:06 ◼ ► Being able to go to the maximum 1600 nits when you play the HDR content on the bottom one not I can't tell
00:31:13 ◼ ► What the heck they're doing so I'm just leaving it on the default it came out of the box set to p3
00:31:33 ◼ ► This is my first display that has HDR that you can really notice especially in Windows which handles this terribly
00:31:49 ◼ ► When it goes into HDR mode like the entire like a non HDR content like just your icons and windows or whatever
00:32:00 ◼ ► And so you can sort of catch a glimpse of what the rest of the world would look like in HDR mode
00:32:05 ◼ ► but when you leave the game it switches out of HDR mode in Windows and goes back to like regular display so that
00:32:11 ◼ ► You know white stuff looks white again instead of everything looking I had a gray haze over it
00:32:19 ◼ ► I can tell that the brightest whites in that HDR video are so much brighter than any other white that's been on the screen
00:32:28 ◼ ► You can narrow the gap by cranking the brightness up to max, but you do not want to do that
00:32:34 ◼ ► Do not on modern desktop displays putting the brightness at max will burn your eyeballs out. Don't do that, right? Yeah
00:32:42 ◼ ► But the HDR like I don't think there's a way to get it to display like an all-white text edit window at
00:32:56 ◼ ► It's not high down the Mac desktop experience is not high dynamic range as far as I'm able to tell only
00:33:01 ◼ ► Video is that and that means only video is going to reach those peaks of 1600 hits these that's my understanding of somebody
00:33:10 ◼ ► Reference monitors and HDR displays and and Mac OS specifically has any guidance or something
00:33:39 ◼ ► But tell me is there trouble in paradise John? It's my Ethernet wonkiness is it's a quick one
00:33:52 ◼ ► So my Mac Pro like most of my desktop Macs. I just turn off Wi-Fi because I want wired connections for everything
00:33:58 ◼ ► I don't want them bothering sending their signal transmit and receive signal out into the air just get off Wi-Fi
00:34:10 ◼ ► You know, I'm not using Apple watch unlock. I don't wear a watch right and airdrop. No, no, no use airdrop
00:34:15 ◼ ► I don't hand off. I don't want the little icon sliding up next to my doc. I don't want any of that
00:34:19 ◼ ► I'm assuming that your previous Mac Pro was not airdrop compatible. My previous Mac Pro did not have Wi-Fi, right? I
00:34:31 ◼ ► Preferences priority list and just put the Ethernet first all your networking stuff will still go over Ethernet
00:34:38 ◼ ► But leave the Wi-Fi on for airdrop. Yep. What do you think? I'm airdropping anything photos anything? Yeah, like something like yeah
00:34:48 ◼ ► Immediately there like without any waiting for sync sometimes TIF or I will airdrop things to each other's computers
00:34:57 ◼ ► If the network isn't working right or if we if it's just faster if it's from iOS to the computer
00:35:03 ◼ ► No, I don't think I have occasion to transfer anything from iOS devices to my Mac that's not like already there through some sync process
00:35:11 ◼ ► But I'll keep it in mind if ever comes up. I certainly have the capability now unlike my previous computer
00:35:22 ◼ ► Personally in my house have an 8 port switch. That's the same 8 port switch that I've been using with my 2008 Mac Pro
00:35:29 ◼ ► It's not as old as my 2008 Mac Pro because I think it replaced at some point in its lifetime
00:35:35 ◼ ► It's old enough that I can't get a replacement that looks like it because I needed a bunch of switches
00:35:40 ◼ ► I think when I got the Synology that wasn't that long ago, right but wasn't that long ago. That was almost seven years. Well my
00:35:47 ◼ ► My Mac Pro was three years old then when I got that I said, oh I want to get some switches
00:35:54 ◼ ► I'll probably I'll get the same one that I have that I've been using with my Mac here and I couldn't find it because they
00:35:58 ◼ ► Changed the models around or whatever. So anyway, it's a pretty old switch is what I'm getting it
00:36:17 ◼ ► I mean it makes sense because when I bought the switch 10 gig Ethernet did not exist as a standard over
00:36:23 ◼ ► Copper as far as I'm aware, so it kind of makes sense that this which wouldn't expect that anyway
00:36:30 ◼ ► When I connected everything up on my Mac and I one of the things I did was a speed test to make sure that I had
00:36:40 ◼ ► so incredibly slow and so incredibly close to a hundred megabits that it immediately became clear to me that
00:36:49 ◼ ► I went into the Ethernet hardware settings and it was like hardware speed and it had selected 100 megabits
00:37:01 ◼ ► Ethernet switch and my Mac they could not see eye to eye and I think my Ethernet switch said fine
00:37:14 ◼ ► but if you also have a semi old Ethernet switch connected to your 10 gig Ethernet be aware that they may not be
00:37:21 ◼ ► Friendly with each other and you may have to do what I did which is just manually set it to gigabit and then lo and behold
00:37:36 ◼ ► Let me give you the extremely short version that Marco can drop in if he ends up cutting all this
00:37:47 ◼ ► Then I thought the Eero was broken and it turns out that possibly seemingly because of my mocha bridge
00:37:57 ◼ ► But as soon as I disconnected the multi the mocha bridge from my switch everything came back up and everything was fine
00:38:07 ◼ ► Marco will do the fast forward sound effect, but the longer version of the story is that I noticed that my
00:38:29 ◼ ► But it won't pull an IP and I restart my Eero I restart the switch which like you John is a gigabit switch
00:38:41 ◼ ► Well, then I eventually think all right. Well screw it. Thankfully my Eero base station that the parent if you will
00:38:58 ◼ ► So I decide that the switch is broken. So because it's old, you know, even though there's no real intelligence there
00:39:09 ◼ ► Which by the way the fact that you can do that and within a couple hours it shows up still blows my mind even though
00:39:16 ◼ ► So I eventually get this new switch in I plug everything up and I'm ready to go I'm excited that must have been the oh
00:39:26 ◼ ► Okay, and I don't recall the exact timeline at some point in this struggle I decide to do a
00:39:36 ◼ ► But I don't really trust that because my last iMac said no no, no, everything's great when it wasn't
00:39:48 ◼ ► The switch is can't be the problem because it's brand new and that's when I plugged into the Eero and I feel like okay
00:39:59 ◼ ► So I start blowing up your own support via email saying without actually saying I would like a new one yesterday
00:40:16 ◼ ► But what they eventually said was which I didn't think of myself and I'm a little disappointed that I didn't think of it
00:40:30 ◼ ► That's when everything worked and if this by some miracle actually makes it in the show
00:40:41 ◼ ► So if you're not familiar with what that is, there's it's an acronym something over coaxial
00:41:00 ◼ ► Through the internet, but the only way the set-top box is connected to the internet is via coax the same
00:41:11 ◼ ► Verizon issued router also got its internet via coax or in once I got gigabit it had a coax port on it
00:41:28 ◼ ► Access to the internet. Well, what I did was in because I didn't want to use the files router anymore
00:41:33 ◼ ► I really like hero which is a past sponsor and probably future sponsor, but I really like them. I
00:41:40 ◼ ► And so I got this thing called a mocha bridge which is basically you plug coax into it you plug Ethernet into it and it
00:41:48 ◼ ► What it is about this mocha bridge that caused everything to fall into space, but since I have unplugged it
00:42:01 ◼ ► I would love to know how that could be a thing other than maybe the bridge just needed to be like
00:42:05 ◼ ► Restarted or something, but I don't understand how that mocha bridge could have taken down my whole darn network
00:42:11 ◼ ► So I if you know and if this actually made it in the show, I would love to know so please do let me know
00:42:32 ◼ ► Yeah, which is what I have now and I do wait when everything works. I actually do like the mocha bridge
00:42:41 ◼ ► but my understanding having briefly looked into it is that you can actually get a gigabit or
00:42:46 ◼ ► near gigabit speeds over more modern mocha bridges and that's really important for someone like me who is too lazy to run cat6 throughout the
00:42:54 ◼ ► House but really would like to have an Ethernet drop across the house now in my actual circumstance
00:43:03 ◼ ► but if I wanted to go like my office is in the the upper right corner of the house if you will and
00:43:20 ◼ ► So if I wanted for some reason an Ethernet drop and say the kitchen I could use mocha bridges to get that Ethernet drop
00:43:26 ◼ ► I would I already have one that usually is plugged in up here in the office and I can put a second one down in
00:43:33 ◼ ► and so in that sense, it's super convenient because I'm just ride on the stuff that's already in the walls, but
00:43:38 ◼ ► But yeah, something has gone very very wrong with this and I don't understand what and it's kind of driving me crazy. I
00:43:44 ◼ ► Don't know. So thank you for indulging me and we'll see if this actually makes it in the show
00:43:53 ◼ ► Another thing about I don't know all new computers most new computers in my life. That's one thing
00:43:58 ◼ ► I appreciated about my 2008 Mac Pro and the thing I think that I hate about most laptops
00:44:09 ◼ ► You know have energy saver settings where you could say do you want to wake for network access and you do scheduled wakes and sleeps?
00:44:17 ◼ ► I think those were basically the only options and you could also say when the screen goes to sleep and how long
00:44:38 ◼ ► Never sleep by yourself except during the schedule. The schedule was wake up at like 3 a.m
00:44:46 ◼ ► And then I had back play scheduled to run then and then go to sleep like an hour and a half or two hours later
00:44:58 ◼ ► And do its thing and then it would hit its scheduled sleep and it would go to sleep, right?
00:45:04 ◼ ► So that's so I could have like a long running downloads or other sorts of things and in theory all those sort of long-running
00:45:09 ◼ ► Operations should already keep the computer awake, but sometimes they didn't especially in the old days
00:45:16 ◼ ► Would act in a predictable way and when I put it to sleep, which I did, you know frequently
00:45:23 ◼ ► But I would I wouldn't just leave it running all day because it's a big thing that uses a lot of power
00:45:32 ◼ ► It wouldn't wake up until you that 3 a.m. Wake up time came or until I came back and woke it up
00:45:37 ◼ ► Again, not necessarily true of laptops. So this new computer has more settings than the old one did it has
00:45:55 ◼ ► Wake up silently and check for email and do time machine backups or whatever. I don't know how silently it does those wake ups
00:46:19 ◼ ► when I walked away from it just you know, my old habits for my old Mac and I'd come back in the room a little bit
00:46:27 ◼ ► Eventually realize that the computer is awake. The screen is still black, but the computer is awake and
00:46:47 ◼ ► Unless I walked up to it and put my ear like right in front of the grading on the front of the computer
00:46:57 ◼ ► Yeah, like are they alive they breathing put your finger under their nose to see if they're breathing
00:47:03 ◼ ► It's like well when the computer's on at a title and I'm sitting in the chair here, you know
00:47:07 ◼ ► Three feet away from it like I can still hear it. But when I'm doing the sleep/wake testing
00:47:13 ◼ ► Like I'd be on like my work laptop in the same exact chair, but I'd put the big, you know
00:47:16 ◼ ► The Mac Pro to sleep, but did I just be on a laptop and I'd like did the Mac Pro just wake up
00:47:28 ◼ ► Went over to the computer and put my ear to it the same chair that I'm sitting in right now
00:47:49 ◼ ► I'm not letting you get up from the chair place your bed. Do you think it's awake or asleep?
00:47:52 ◼ ► I think I could mostly tell I think I'd have maybe 90% success rate, but it's borderline
00:47:57 ◼ ► So that's one point. The second point is why the hell's my computer working out, right?
00:48:08 ◼ ► I'll link to a good article by Howard Oakley in the eclectic light company, which is a great website for Mac nerdery
00:48:20 ◼ ► Why is my Mac waking up and especially if you know something about how to debug it and you start googling for the words that?
00:48:26 ◼ ► Involve debugging it you will find so many results across like decades, right? This is a common problem
00:48:33 ◼ ► The solutions vary the tools for looking into the solutions vary a little bit a little bit more lately
00:49:04 ◼ ► Why did I wake up and the wake reasons would will say very obscure text that you will then type into Google and find a million
00:49:09 ◼ ► People whose computer are waking up with the exact same thing if you have a more recent Mac or more recent OS
00:49:23 ◼ ► But it is not particularly helpful when you're trying to figure out why your computer is waking up
00:49:27 ◼ ► Why might your computer be waking up well there's wake on network access, but you can just uncheck that checkbox
00:49:40 ◼ ► To that computer from the internet like say you're running like a Plex server on something and you
00:49:54 ◼ ► Available you put it asleep it'll wake from network access in three seconds because things are port scanning the internet like 24/7 right
00:50:03 ◼ ► somehow some way that wake up packet will go flying through and I don't understand how it can do that because I used to I wrote
00:50:16 ◼ ► But anyway my maybe it's my hostile environment in my house my experience has shown if you do wake for network access
00:50:22 ◼ ► You will never your computer will never sleep for long. It'll be like a parent of a baby, right?
00:50:34 ◼ ► Bluetooth devices Bluetooth devices love to wake up a computer. Why beats the hell out of me
00:50:47 ◼ ► Lonely there are they glitching are they did someone nudge a mouse is there some kind of vibration?
00:50:53 ◼ ► But you know if you're trying to debug this this thing of like is a Bluetooth device waking up my computer turn off Bluetooth
00:51:03 ◼ ► USB devices of all kinds love to wake up your computer again. Why why are they waking up your computer?
00:51:19 ◼ ► External hard drives that USB hard drives that the thing tries to spin down when they're idle
00:51:25 ◼ ► But then like wake themselves back up like if you know and you'll see like wake reason HID
00:51:42 ◼ ► So anyway, I went through that procedure with this computer over the course of the first week
00:51:47 ◼ ► I had it it did eventually get to the point where I am now where when I put it to sleep it stays asleep
00:51:55 ◼ ► Going through all this stuff for moving. I had a USB hard drive that was always connected
00:52:01 ◼ ► I'm only gonna connect you when I need to boot from boot camp and otherwise you're gonna sit on a shelf
00:52:12 ◼ ► Programs that were putting in assertions that were keeping it from idle sleeping and so I think I'm mostly okay
00:52:18 ◼ ► There's this other thing by the way called dark wake which is where I think it's where it wakes up
00:52:24 ◼ ► Affiliated with power nap sometimes you'll see a dark wake anyway pm set minus G log will show you the sleep wakes
00:52:37 ◼ ► Mdns resolver or whatever that thing is the thing that was discovery D. We got changed back
00:52:41 ◼ ► That wakes your computer every two hours to do some real-time clock maintenance something yada yada like
00:52:48 ◼ ► but anyway since you have a lot of these events you can graph them and see when is my computer waking up and when is
00:52:55 ◼ ► It has been improving to the point where I feel like it's an understandable predictable cadence
00:53:05 ◼ ► Thing that I'm pretty sure I can't stop it from doing I don't understand what real-time clock maintenance means other than perhaps I
00:53:16 ◼ ► But occasionally it wakes itself up every two hours briefly and does a thing and goes back to sleep
00:53:25 ◼ ► Don't know what if this is gonna help anybody except to let you know that if you are having problems with your computer
00:53:42 ◼ ► But it is possible to defeat it with a little bit of effort and process of elimination kind of like Casey with
00:53:47 ◼ ► Unplugging everything and turning everything off with this various routers and that story that may you may or may not have just heard in this podcast
00:53:53 ◼ ► Yeah, and this is one of the things about desktop computers that I feel like sleep wake battles can be won
00:54:05 ◼ ► It's not constantly on the go connecting to weird networks and having all sorts of weird peripherals and docking things
00:54:36 ◼ ► It will be the most comfortable underwear socks shirts undershirts hoodies and sweatpants and more that you will ever wear
00:54:48 ◼ ► These are naturally antimicrobial because they actually have silver fiber woven through them. And what this means is that they eliminate odor
00:54:54 ◼ ► So like I wear these silver the silver t-shirts all summer long and whenever I work out
00:55:10 ◼ ► And again, the silver t-shirts amazing for summertime and for working out and then they also have a full line of other products as well
00:55:22 ◼ ► Every day I'm wearing their underwear. I'm usually wearing some of their socks too, and I'm almost always wearing one of their shirts
00:55:29 ◼ ► They have amazing pima cotton t-shirts long sleeve and short sleeves. I love in the winter
00:55:34 ◼ ► I love their warm knit long sleeve shirts like a waffle knit shirt. Love those very high quality very soft
00:55:40 ◼ ► You know all this stuff fits really well and they have a whole line of other stuff to see you got to see Mac well
00:55:45 ◼ ► And stuff it's really top quality and I would say especially focus on the underwear and the shirts
00:56:02 ◼ ► Podcast and I gotta say you really got to check this stuff out. It's really good. I love Mac well and stuff
00:56:24 ◼ ► Podcast mac weldon.com promo code ATP podcast. Thank you so much to Mac Weldon for sponsoring our show
00:56:36 ◼ ► That's a toolbar they kept popping up and in the finder that I would dismiss and it would reveal itself again as I look at
00:56:42 ◼ ► The finder windows in the background now both of them have the toolbar visible despite me hiding a toolbar on both of those windows at
00:57:18 ◼ ► and I think something about the interaction between like whatever that plug-in is lurking inside Dropbox and the finder is
00:57:26 ◼ ► Dropbox to do something that triggers the finder to show the toolbar and all the open windows. I
00:57:37 ◼ ► I'm Dropbox free and it's in terms of client app. Anyway, yeah, I think I use the web interface
00:57:49 ◼ ► Yeah, you've got that thing going on your Synology, but I'm not I'm not ready to do that
00:57:53 ◼ ► I use Dropbox not just for podcast up for personal stuff as well. That's what the Synology thing is for
00:58:03 ◼ ► Find a way to disable the finder integration that used to be an option and many versions of Dropbox ago
00:58:13 ◼ ► I think that also applied to the little badges, but now there's an official Apple supported API for the badging
00:58:20 ◼ ► Think the the toolbar thing is also not a hack. It's also an official API. So this may be some kind of Catalina bug
00:58:31 ◼ ► If it actually is Dropbox, I suppose I could uninstall it and find out so I should just do the experiment myself
00:58:42 ◼ ► Insisting on putting that toolbar button there that I'm never going to put on my toolbars because I don't like toolbars Oh
00:58:58 ◼ ► I love that John and I now both blog so infrequently in Casey. I think you're you're getting there
00:59:04 ◼ ► We blog so infrequently that every time we post a blog post is worth discussion on this
00:59:13 ◼ ► This this topic was in the notes before you blogged about it because I thought it was hilarious
00:59:17 ◼ ► That there was a rumor that the thing that you've always wanted low power mode that the rumor was that Apple was doing the opposite. Oh
00:59:23 ◼ ► You want low power mode. How about high power mode? What do you think of that? Yeah, exactly
00:59:33 ◼ ► that in in a Catalina beta there were some string references found that suggests that Apple is working on a
00:59:40 ◼ ► Something called possibly Pro mode which would be a way to temporarily enable higher performance
00:59:47 ◼ ► They would kind of suggested that me it may be it might have to do with like raising the fan speeds to basically increase
00:59:53 ◼ ► the thermal output and so presumably like you know because modern laptops and computers like modern processors are
00:59:59 ◼ ► Limited with a certain thermal limit and if you apply more cooling to them they can usually get
01:00:07 ◼ ► More performance or at least longer sustained peak performance before having to throttle the the speeds
01:00:13 ◼ ► closer down to the base clock speed like modern modern Intel turbo boost basically lets the
01:00:18 ◼ ► CPUs burst way above the the advertised clock speed much of the time that they're in use and in fact
01:00:25 ◼ ► The average clock speed like on a normal operation that all that is is the minimum that they're guaranteed to be able to sustain under
01:00:47 ◼ ► And so if you apply more cooling then they can sustain higher performance levels for longer times during busy workloads
01:00:55 ◼ ► And so that's what I assume Pro mode would be doing and that's a frequent demand especially from the
01:01:07 ◼ ► Youtubers or other video producers who were using MacBook Pros out in the field they want to render stuff as quickly as possible
01:01:12 ◼ ► And there are times when they don't care about fan noise. They just need something to be done quickly
01:01:24 ◼ ► Want what I've been running on my laptop for a while now. I want a first-party solution on my laptop
01:01:30 ◼ ► I've been running turbo boost switch or pro for I don't know like four years now. It's been a while
01:01:37 ◼ ► What I love about it is that it lets you disable turbo boost completely and you can also automatically disable it based on
01:01:46 ◼ ► So you could like automatically disable it when you're running on battery and then when you're plugged in it automatically gets enabled
01:01:55 ◼ ► Then if I really need high performance I go to the menu bar and toggle it and then toggle it back when I'm done
01:02:00 ◼ ► But that's becoming less and less common that I actually need that higher performance and the rest of the time
01:02:06 ◼ ► It may seem weird that I am buying a processor that's capable of significantly higher performance that then what I ended up limiting it to
01:02:34 ◼ ► Multi-core performance gets reduced a lot less because when you're using all the cores turbo boost can't boost as high anyway
01:02:43 ◼ ► Turbo's disabled you're looking at maybe losing about a third of your performance of it depending on the processor you have and how many cores
01:02:49 ◼ ► Etc. But anyway, multi-core is not effective as much as single core, but what's great about this is
01:03:05 ◼ ► You can look at my blog post for all the actual numbers here, but it runs way cooler and
01:03:14 ◼ ► It's almost impossible to have the fans spin up when it's in when turbo boost is disabled
01:03:19 ◼ ► In fact, I heard from a lot of people who like playing games this way because it keeps the fans from just going crazy when they're gaming
01:03:26 ◼ ► Windows has a control that I think does this there is like a slider and windows that it's like performance or battery life and
01:03:36 ◼ ► I don't know what that's adjusting but people pointed out as a thing in response to this. But anyway, so
01:03:42 ◼ ► When you run disabled, so it runs way cooler it runs way quieter and you get way more battery life
01:03:52 ◼ ► But a lot of times that's not noticeable like most of the time I run my laptop this way and it's fine
01:04:02 ◼ ► You know email web social stuff with occasional bursts of Xcode productivity and when I'm doing that
01:04:29 ◼ ► You know, like I figure like hey while you're in there while you're making an option for pro mode
01:04:40 ◼ ► iOS has low power mode people use it all the time. It's a great idea because you know the point
01:04:56 ◼ ► balance of those trade-offs for each product generally and it's fixed in stone forever and
01:05:05 ◼ ► Sometimes I don't care about battery life, but sometimes I want the laptop to run cool and not burn my legs and not make my
01:05:13 ◼ ► and I don't want to hear the fan spinning up constantly and I already need the battery to last for a whole cross-country flight because the
01:05:17 ◼ ► power outlet in my seat is broken like there are times when I want a different balance and
01:05:22 ◼ ► Normally Apple does not let us control that balance of performance versus everything else
01:05:28 ◼ ► iOS is low power mode is one of the only times they've ever given us a control over that
01:05:34 ◼ ► That we can say on iOS, you know what right now I care more about longest battery life possible than
01:05:41 ◼ ► Everything being exactly fast exactly, you know up to date with you know background updates and stuff like that
01:05:49 ◼ ► You can do as well in which they do in iOS low power mode, you know stuff like on the Mac
01:05:56 ◼ ► You can disable software updates iTunes downloads like a whole bunch of stuff that Macs do automatically in the background
01:06:12 ◼ ► So on iOS we have this one switch that we have low power mode and that's great. We need that sometimes
01:06:20 ◼ ► People seem to like it. It seems to be a great success and I think there's no real major downside to it there
01:06:30 ◼ ► One fixed balance of performance versus other factors doesn't fit everybody all the time
01:06:39 ◼ ► So on the Mac if they're gonna add a control in the other direction like making it, you know pro mode
01:06:55 ◼ ► You'd have to like turn it on and then automatically turns itself off tomorrow or something like that. Like that's fine
01:07:09 ◼ ► Probably going to stop working later this year with whatever the next version of Mac OS is
01:07:17 ◼ ► This developer needs to update this because it won't work with a future version of this of Mac OS which of course means
01:07:27 ◼ ► This utility that I've been using to approximate low power mode that I like the effect a lot
01:07:46 ◼ ► Also, apparently I haven't verified this but people people have told me that it's not even on the iPad yet
01:07:55 ◼ ► We have batteries and all these devices pretty much everything that does not plug into the wall should probably have a low power mode
01:08:03 ◼ ► Nothing to add other than to say I completely agree with you and you know, I think this is
01:08:08 ◼ ► This is needed. I think low power mode is needed and I also think you know the low data mode
01:08:13 ◼ ► Which is also available in iOS, you know something that you can approximate with trip mode
01:08:17 ◼ ► I think both of those are long overdue and I really wish both of them existed and I'm sad that neither of them do
01:08:24 ◼ ► Yeah, oh and and by the way, there are other options if you're willing to disable system integrity protection
01:08:36 ◼ ► We had all those stories where in the mac Pro came out where everyone was trying to configure the most expensive mac Pro
01:08:41 ◼ ► If this pro mode feature ever does actually ship I can't wait to see people seeing how fast they can burn the battery down from
01:08:59 ◼ ► Yeah, it's kind of weird that I mean, I understand, you know the you know, whatever the pro apps team
01:09:12 ◼ ► I'm in a situation where even if I'm on battery, I want maximum power right now to get something done ASAP
01:09:39 ◼ ► speed all the time and a lot of times if people do temperature sensing and say like it'd be great if Apple ran their fans a
01:09:45 ◼ ► Little bit faster and sped them up a little bit sooner because it seems like stuff's getting pretty toasty in there
01:09:59 ◼ ► So I see how the pro workflow group would say that balance is not really the right balance for us
01:10:10 ◼ ► to even think that they would do this and not do low power mode because like is there the
01:10:19 ◼ ► Everybody wants more battery life on their laptops. Like everybody wants that it's why it's on phones
01:10:33 ◼ ► Don't you worry about that because when the arm laptops come you're gonna have more battery life than you know what to do with but
01:10:38 ◼ ► It doesn't really make much sense because the phones are arm and they have low power mode. So I
01:10:51 ◼ ► Like it's it seems like the priority should be low power mode first and then kind of like the Mac Pro
01:11:00 ◼ ► You know, I love it. They call it Pro mode and the strings by the way, like they can't call like
01:11:12 ◼ ► All the modern high-end like large laptops like the 15 inch and the 16 inch when you run them at full blast
01:11:19 ◼ ► They actually draw more power than their wall adapters can supply and so they actually will slowly deplete their own batteries
01:11:26 ◼ ► Even when plugged in so I'm not sure you would want a pro mode that would make that even faster
01:11:38 ◼ ► Again, I wouldn't be able to keep up from it from its own wall wart. And so you would have the situation where
01:11:50 ◼ ► like maybe you want that but I think my my concern with this as you were just kind of alluding to is it has seemed on
01:11:59 ◼ ► The pro workflow group that Apple seems to be designing their pro products for these days
01:12:13 ◼ ► Basically designing computers for video editors and that's great. There are a lot of video editors out there
01:12:33 ◼ ► Their product direction reflects the needs of lots of types of customers and that they aren't
01:12:45 ◼ ► And I I don't think they are that you know narrow-sided and but certainly sometimes it seems that way and you know
01:13:01 ◼ ► I hope they have heard not just from video editors who say please let me crank this laptop even faster
01:13:12 ◼ ► Literally everybody else who would be like hey, you know what most the time I would like more battery life
01:13:21 ◼ ► It was neglected for so long that they did the right thing and made this pro workflow team to
01:13:30 ◼ ► You know microcosm of that constituency to find out how they can make things better for them
01:13:38 ◼ ► They had audio editors with a big soundtrack and I have photographers and they have 3d artists, right?
01:13:43 ◼ ► But it's it's basically all all of the types of applications that really can use all the power available if you just give them more
01:13:51 ◼ ► Despite that, you know as we've quoted many times and they say in their keynotes that the developers are number one pro customer
01:14:01 ◼ ► But the other side of that is like yeah, so I want I think of the pro work for team is like lobbyists
01:14:15 ◼ ► The reason you needed to make that is because that's a constituency that you weren't paying attention to so form this group
01:14:20 ◼ ► Presumably you were paying attention to everybody else before that but now it seems like you have this
01:14:29 ◼ ► powerful group within the company lobbying for exactly what they're supposed to be lobbying for their needs and
01:14:42 ◼ ► In-house constituency for that because that's just everybody else and that's just us. That's just our product managers
01:14:55 ◼ ► Isn't there's a disconnect between I think what sort of the mainstream non pro Mac customer in particular
01:15:03 ◼ ► Wants out of Apple's products and what they're providing from everything from low power mode to number of ports and convenience to
01:15:19 ◼ ► They made the phones bigger and thicker and have more battery life and actually made them cheaper
01:15:25 ◼ ► It's so clear that the sort of non pro regular person constituency has been getting things that they like
01:15:41 ◼ ► I'm happy that they're catering to the pro things and making this crazy computer that I'm sitting in front of but it's clear that
01:15:46 ◼ ► The rest of the Mac line could use a little bit more like I don't think you need to make a non pro workflow team
01:15:52 ◼ ► I think that should be just a function of the whole rest of the product org, but I think there's still a disconnect there
01:16:01 ◼ ► the the mass of their regular non pro customers to get on the same page about what they want like
01:16:13 ◼ ► And yes, it does have a bigger battery but mostly for the needs of pros and speaking of that
01:16:17 ◼ ► Draining the battery even went on power. Did they does the 16-inch come with higher wattage power brick than the
01:16:27 ◼ ► 95 I believe 96 and can it still outrun that you're saying that if you take the 16-inch and you crank it without any special
01:16:34 ◼ ► Tweaks you can outrun the that power adapter. I haven't heard specifically on the 16-inch whether it still does that
01:16:47 ◼ ► Which is pretty easy to do if you're doing something like a video in code. Yeah, so anyway, I think
01:16:54 ◼ ► We don't need a roundtable and we don't need a non pro workflow group, but I think we do need
01:17:00 ◼ ► Some closer connection between the desires of the mass of non pro customers and what Apple's non pro
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01:19:40 ◼ ► I mean in different colors, right, but that that's the only mouse they make is the little sushi thing
01:19:44 ◼ ► It's really low and I don't like a low mouse. Yes. I understand that but these are hideous
01:19:51 ◼ ► How can you be so upset about the LG display and look at these and be like, yeah, okay, that's fine
01:19:56 ◼ ► In all fairness you aren't supposed to look at your input peripherals as you're using them. Whereas you are looking at your monitor
01:20:03 ◼ ► Yeah, but still I mean Marco if you haven't yet you need to look at these links in the show notes because oh
01:20:28 ◼ ► I don't like so what we're looking at here is three Logitech's and a Microsoft mouse and these aren't even like the super like
01:20:35 ◼ ► You know lit up RGB LED kind of like super gaming mice like those I think are a little bit tacky by design
01:21:11 ◼ ► In fact TIFF owns a way worse mouse that we bought to match for a ridiculous gaming PC that has like, you know
01:21:18 ◼ ► No, the Microsoft mouse actually think is pretty decent looking but it has a Windows logo on it, which I thought would just
01:21:23 ◼ ► Absolutely infuriate the John Syracuse of 20 years ago or whatever, you know, actually you could sand that off. I bet
01:21:33 ◼ ► My car has little USB ports in the in the center console that you can plug in for either music or actually you can record
01:21:40 ◼ ► The footage from the cameras as dash cam footage onto USB and I got one of those little tiny
01:21:46 ◼ ► almost like flush USB drives for it like a little Sam and and it was a Samsung one and it had
01:21:56 ◼ ► I was like this I don't want my car to be screaming Samsung out of this little USB thing
01:22:00 ◼ ► And so when it came I got some sandpaper out of my garage and just gently sand it off the logo and it was fine
01:22:10 ◼ ► And this is like we never think of that as an option like you can just slightly modify some hardware that you don't maybe like
01:22:20 ◼ ► Grind that thing off or sand that thing off and usually it's fairly unintrusive and it's everything's fine
01:22:26 ◼ ► So yeah, so I feel like John could theoretically just sand off this Windows logo of this mouse and it would probably be fine
01:22:34 ◼ ► Alright with all that said John tell me about all of these mice and what what you do and do not like from them
01:22:43 ◼ ► I was using a 10 year old computer and I think the mouse I was using was even older than that
01:22:49 ◼ ► Not even an MX 300 I was using originally Logitech wheel mouse. It didn't have a product name. There was no nice anything like that
01:23:01 ◼ ► 300 model that was basically the same size and shape that I got off of like eBay or whatever
01:23:27 ◼ ► And two buttons and how to scroll wheel and when I was looking for a replacement I was like well
01:23:40 ◼ ► Was mostly shopping based on shape, but when I started shopping around for mice modern mice that are not like 10 years old
01:23:48 ◼ ► You know, I use the Apple one right and I didn't like it and when I was shopping for new ones I
01:23:54 ◼ ► Very quickly came to the conclusion that if you're shopping in sort of the high end of consumer mice not getting into gaming mice quite
01:24:11 ◼ ► But here's the thing stuff that goes in your hand very often looks weird. Look at the TiVo remote. Look at most OXO
01:24:18 ◼ ► Things that you can buy and like I weird cheese grater. Look at hand tools. It's not a beauty contest
01:24:28 ◼ ► Which is not symmetrical and as lumpy and weird and has five appendages and ones coming out the side
01:24:36 ◼ ► You know, you're not gonna make a perfect, you know conical section or this beautiful solid. It's not going to be ergonomically good
01:24:51 ◼ ► If you don't use it in exactly the way Apple wants you to use it as sort of like a thing
01:24:58 ◼ ► I kind of grip it from the side with my thumb on one side and my pinky and ring finger on the other side
01:25:13 ◼ ► These non Apple mice obviously Apple is the elegant solution of just the entire continuous surface and it clicks down and it's really nice
01:25:20 ◼ ► And it's a touch service. It's beautiful elephant elegant Apple solution, but it has limits as discussed last time
01:25:24 ◼ ► You can't hold down the right mouse button and click the left mouse button because it's one big mouse button surprise
01:25:34 ◼ ► It has a scroll gesture and I don't like that as I described it the same way with the Apple TV remote
01:25:41 ◼ ► I don't want any accidental scrolling happening because my fingers brush the touch sensitive surface
01:25:45 ◼ ► I don't like thinking that it's a alive beast that if I pet the wrong way something's gonna happen on my screen
01:26:09 ◼ ► Did they make lots of noise you both remember my scroll wheel on my old mouse so you could hear it in lots of recordings
01:26:17 ◼ ► But it was very noisy and didn't feel good and was kind of gross. We've come a long way there
01:26:29 ◼ ► But that has a much nicer scroll wheel and some good buttons and I was open to the idea of Bluetooth and a lot of them
01:26:37 ◼ ► I did I did want like the idea of not having a cord because my previous mouse was corded only and it's
01:26:44 ◼ ► Keyboard train was like you know what you just get rid of that cord and I have to worry about it
01:26:52 ◼ ► So I got the Microsoft. What is it called Microsoft precision mouse? It's also called the surface precision mouse, which is Microsoft's fancy mouse. I
01:26:59 ◼ ► Tried it in the Microsoft store talked about that before I got it in black. Of course with the pro thing
01:27:16 ◼ ► And so that was my other and I also had tried that and like I think I tried it in like a staples or something
01:27:21 ◼ ► I was buying school supplies for the kids and I remembered the model so, you know again
01:27:24 ◼ ► I highly recommend going to a store and trying these things before you you know buy based on a picture or whatever. I
01:27:31 ◼ ► Did look at the gaming mice and I see a couple of contenders there in particular Logitech g305 light speed
01:27:47 ◼ ► It seems like it's about the right size and shape but I'm not gonna buy it until I've gone to a store to hold it
01:27:57 ◼ ► So I don't have that mouse. So we'll put the link in the show. It's anyways, you can look at it, but
01:28:03 ◼ ► the sensitivity of the sensor and all sorts of stuff having to do with the DPI and for gaming or whatever and they you know
01:28:16 ◼ ► I like the idea of that and I can tell it with it sort of like my old janky mouse as an example
01:28:24 ◼ ► You can tell the difference when you're using them like in terms of what kind of resolution does it have and what kind of services?
01:28:33 ◼ ► somebody from Logitech apparently listens to this program because a package came in the mail today that had a little handwritten note that said I
01:28:42 ◼ ► Hello greetings from Logitech. We we like the show enjoy. So someone from logic sent me a bunch of logic peripherals for free and
01:28:58 ◼ ► The magnetic camera thing that attaches to the top of your protos play XDR and I'll talk about that a little bit later
01:29:29 ◼ ► It's like the sensors down there. But other than that like there's no you know, I'm in the store. I'm looking into them
01:29:33 ◼ ► I'm feeling the buttons. I'm feeling the wheels. I'm feeling the shape and I'm not looking at the bottom of the mouse
01:29:37 ◼ ► I should have been looking at the bottom of the mouse. I see the bottom of mine sometimes you do sure
01:29:44 ◼ ► But you know without looking I mean maybe you know this because you do charge it like a harpoon turtle
01:29:51 ◼ ► But without shooting and looking what's on the bottom of your mouse? What's going on down there?
01:29:57 ◼ ► There's a charging hole and then there's the two long like rails of anti skid material that I have to scrape all the gunk off
01:30:04 ◼ ► Of sometimes yeah, so I mean, you know because you're cleaning it also because you harpoon it
01:30:08 ◼ ► But yeah that the Apple Mouse has two long vertical strips that go down the sides of the mouse two parallel lines of
01:30:25 ◼ ► Because one of the things I liked about that mouse that I quickly found is how it feels
01:30:33 ◼ ► Sliding across my mousing surface mousing services just as it's an Amazon basics mouse pad at this point like a mouse pads the holiday ratio
01:30:40 ◼ ► I really need to get a bigger one, but my keyboard tray is oddly shaped. So it's a pain
01:30:43 ◼ ► I might have to buy one and cut it. But anyway, it's just like I don't know mousepad material regular mousepad, but here
01:30:49 ◼ ► It's very thin. It's not like one of those thick ancient mouse pads from the 90s, right?
01:30:52 ◼ ► It's very thin but in the end it's a rubbery thing with kind of like a fabric surface on it
01:31:05 ◼ ► Feet or whatever things on the bottom of your mouse slide across that surface makes a big difference in how a mouse feels
01:31:13 ◼ ► And if you've never looked down there or never made that connection if you have a mouse that you really like or really hate it
01:31:19 ◼ ► Could have something to do with how it actually interfaces with the surface. You're sliding it across my old lie detect had four feet
01:31:35 ◼ ► it was a fairly normal shape sort of rectangular mouse with a rounded back just four little things and
01:31:49 ◼ ► The Apple one has way more contact than the four little points and I think is also heavier
01:31:59 ◼ ► So I don't you know, I don't we need to get dr. Drang here with coefficients of friction and all sorts of other stuff like
01:32:13 ◼ ► Anyway, all this is to say I did not look at the bottom of any of the mice I got I should have
01:32:35 ◼ ► just one big long continuous trail that goes around the entire outer edge of the of the bottom of the mouse and that is the
01:32:49 ◼ ► four big triangle two big triangular ones at the back two squarish ones at the front and
01:33:02 ◼ ► Vertical rails not as long as the Apple one but one on the left and one on the right and then it has two
01:33:13 ◼ ► In how it feels and how it sounds going across the surface the Microsoft Mouse in the beginning
01:33:29 ◼ ► Sort of like fingers scraping across fabric and I was like am I imagining things I took my old mouse
01:33:36 ◼ ► I put it down and I moved it total silence and it moves really easily put the micro source mouse on it
01:34:03 ◼ ► There is a break-in period for a new mouse where the slippery junk on the bottom of the mouse
01:34:14 ◼ ► If I feel with my finger that little slippery rim, I think it's more slippery. I think it's been slowly been polishing it
01:34:20 ◼ ► It doesn't change the weight of the mouse and it doesn't change how the weight how the weight is distributed on the pad
01:34:37 ◼ ► Then it was when I bought it kind of like if you buy a car and two years later you get better zero 60 times
01:34:49 ◼ ► that the most important thing I learned from this experience so far is that is a factor consider it and
01:35:05 ◼ ► The reason probably the main reason I got this Microsoft precision mouse is because this scroll wheel is fantastic
01:35:12 ◼ ► Now I know squirrels are passé and everyone wants to touch service yada yada. I'm not into touch service on a wheel
01:35:24 ◼ ► It's got the ratcheting mode and the free spinning mode the free spinning mode. It feels like it's on a ball bearing
01:35:48 ◼ ► We heard it a satisfying funk where you can feel like something electrically activating and moving into place and moving back
01:35:59 ◼ ► The ratcheting mode feels like an expensive car knob with like the little where you can feel like the little I forget what they're called
01:36:10 ◼ ► Um and but it's not noisy so here let me I'm gonna scroll the scroll wheel like this is this is like literally
01:36:25 ◼ ► You know my old mouse you could hear it when it from the I'd scroll it and you could hear it in the next room
01:36:41 ◼ ► Spins and you can just give it a spin and like a roulette wheel just spin and spin and spin
01:36:45 ◼ ► And then you stop it with your finger the Microsoft mouse does not do that it has smooth and ratcheted, but in smooth mode
01:36:50 ◼ ► It's totally smooth. There is nothing impeding the movement, but it does not freewheel spin
01:36:56 ◼ ► Like it's damped right so if you flick it. It'll as soon as your finger leaves the wheel it will stop moving right
01:37:12 ◼ ► You know I'm talking about like I'm a bottom of the mouse is the thing that sticks out of the side for your thumb to go
01:37:19 ◼ ► But I bought the Microsoft one cuz I'm like look if I'm gonna have a thumb thing let's get a really tiny thumb thing
01:37:42 ◼ ► I can imagine using that has three side buttons instead of just two which is nice and the mouse wheel clicks in for the third
01:38:05 ◼ ► Some maybe it's my environment. Maybe it's because my tower computer has bad antennas in as far away
01:38:20 ◼ ► And it's not some Catalina thing where it's freaking out like it's it's fine most people wouldn't notice
01:38:25 ◼ ► But I can totally notice that the tracking is not great occasionally you get a little hitch. I
01:38:33 ◼ ► But I think it's Bluetooth or maybe it's this mouse because I tried the mouse on my wife's computer, too
01:38:40 ◼ ► It's like a 5k iMac and then we're right in front of it with the mouse, and it was mostly fine
01:38:44 ◼ ► But it had a couple of hiccups. She rejected it the first time it added any kind of tracking hiccup
01:38:50 ◼ ► She's like get this thing off my computer, and I don't blame her like when you move the mouse
01:38:57 ◼ ► There should be no hitches especially if your computer is idle, and she's not on Catalina, right?
01:39:03 ◼ ► And so and she has had other Bluetooth peripherals, but you know that aren't pointing devices like Bluetooth keyboards and stuff like
01:39:12 ◼ ► Rejecting out of hand because I'm coming from a world with wired mice which never have this problem at all right and also
01:39:19 ◼ ► Because of Logitech so the Microsoft mouse I'll get the logic stuff in a second, but the Microsoft mouse in Bluetooth mode
01:39:34 ◼ ► USB cable that you can connect to the front of it, and it becomes a wired mouse and in wired mode no problems
01:39:41 ◼ ► No hitches. No nothing on the other hand now. You have a wire attached. It's an interesting
01:39:45 ◼ ► You know the fact that you can just plug and unplug it at the mouse at the point of the mouse and such a thin
01:39:53 ◼ ► When I have my work laptop here, and I'm working, but I have my computer sort of behind it
01:40:03 ◼ ► On the same keyboard tray again more Logitech stuff on that in a moment, but I like that arrangement so
01:40:10 ◼ ► For a while the Microsoft mouse was my winner using it in wired mode because the ergonomics were right
01:40:18 ◼ ► I love the scroll wheel the buttons were great the shape was pretty good the thumb flange wasn't too low
01:40:22 ◼ ► I was breaking in the little pads in the bottom. I didn't have to deal with Bluetooth because it was plugged in
01:40:45 ◼ ► It's like there was a USB mouse connected to it, but really there was no wire there. You know it's it's like USB
01:40:53 ◼ ► You two won't get that I that's like that's like a literary reference literary historical
01:40:58 ◼ ► It's a highbrow reference much higher brow like 80s movies. Oh my goodness our listeners will get it you can look it up after anyway
01:41:30 ◼ ► But this is my opinion before they send me a bunch of free stuff as well that stupid little RF dongle is
01:41:35 ◼ ► Rock solid yeah, it always has been that's like that's like one of the great reasons to use Logitech stuff
01:41:48 ◼ ► Usually they they also usually lead to much longer battery life in the in the mat in the mice
01:41:53 ◼ ► And it's just like everything about them is better. Yeah, it is fantastic you would think isn't this janky isn't this like a non
01:42:00 ◼ ► Apple non elegant solution shouldn't everything just be Bluetooth. It's built into your computer the answer is no that Logitech RF thing is
01:42:07 ◼ ► Amazing now a setting aside the USB 3.0 interference crap which is not Logitech's fault. It's probably Intel's fault right setting that aside
01:42:20 ◼ ► It just it is you know if you a be test me with a wired connection versus that RF thing
01:42:29 ◼ ► It does not switch the battery lasts for like seven years in the in your mouse. It is unbelievable
01:42:39 ◼ ► I mean again. I've been using that that older logic mice mouse for ten years right, so I'm pretty disposed like Logitech
01:42:45 ◼ ► The tracking was just it was just unbelievable right this the marathon doesn't have a USB connection
01:43:09 ◼ ► It's it's a one that decides the scrolling sideways by tilting the mouse you remember that mechanism
01:43:16 ◼ ► It has a ratcheting mode and it has a smooth mode the smooth mode is very smooth the ratcheting mode is ratcheting
01:43:25 ◼ ► When you shake your mouse you shouldn't hear anything you shake this mouse you hear something
01:43:35 ◼ ► But it's a little got a little bit of an overhang where your thumb goes instead of having straight sides like the Microsoft one
01:43:43 ◼ ► The feet and the sort of the scrolling action or the I don't know what you call the the mousing action is better than having the
01:43:54 ◼ ► They're like weirdly textured so I think they're intentionally slowing it down a little bit
01:43:59 ◼ ► But in the competition between these two mice which the first two that I bought the Microsoft one was winning, but I was using it wired
01:44:08 ◼ ► The logic sent the MX master 3 which I know as the mouse that destroyed my carly's hands through RSI
01:44:14 ◼ ► Reputation that I what do you know about this mouse my curly had one in it hurt his hand
01:44:19 ◼ ► That's what I know about this mouse, and you know I know that it's been around for a while lots of people have it
01:44:24 ◼ ► You know and so on and so forth. It's there is their fancy mouse this has the thumb shelf to end all thumb shelves
01:44:30 ◼ ► I don't know what they are expecting you to put on there. I don't know how big people's thumbs are I I knew
01:44:35 ◼ ► There's a button in the thumb shelf a couple of the logic of mice have like it's button down there
01:44:39 ◼ ► I don't need a button in the thumb shelf this thumb shelf is so big I could fit like three fingers on it
01:44:43 ◼ ► I don't like I was intentionally avoiding this mouse and not getting it because I'm like all right
01:44:51 ◼ ► It turns out the gigantic thumb self is a problem, but it's not it was not the the first problem
01:44:58 ◼ ► I noticed the first one I noticed is that the thumb shelf and the whole wraparound thing of this mouse is
01:45:11 ◼ ► I mean it is kind of unidirectional. I don't know like they're contour lines like on the bottom of a blue whale
01:45:28 ◼ ► Everyone knows what the underside of a blue whale looks like though when you see it in the encyclopedia with the big like
01:45:33 ◼ ► Vertical like corduroy stripes right I would guess that listeners of this show might actually be more likely to know what an MX master looks
01:45:45 ◼ ► Anyway the MX master is a very high mouse it is the highest one it is also the one that rotates your hand most
01:45:54 ◼ ► Most towards the hand shape shake grip. It's not a vertical mouse like a lot of people make vertical mice that
01:45:59 ◼ ► You put your hand on it the same in the same position as you would perform a handshake like vertically that is better
01:46:05 ◼ ► Ergonomically than turning your wrists inward. That's why keyboards are tilted and that's why you know split keyboards yada yada right so
01:46:11 ◼ ► Ergonomically I'm thinking this is probably better for hand position than these other mice
01:46:37 ◼ ► You can mostly ignore the other controls if you don't want them because it's so high like the wheels up above your hand
01:46:51 ◼ ► Better than the cheaper logitech mice in terms of the smoothness of the pads moving across them not as smooth as my old mouse
01:47:02 ◼ ► This is logitech's fancy scroll wheel it is metal. It is solid it has the same sort of silent ratcheting
01:47:14 ◼ ► I still think Microsoft has the best scroll wheel on the market right now that I've tried
01:47:26 ◼ ► Where it will freely spin and keep spinning till you stop it in my experimentation because the other logic mouse also has that mode I
01:47:42 ◼ ► I try to get used to it over the course of the whole weeks, and I couldn't but I am still playing with the
01:47:47 ◼ ► Logitech one where it's mostly ratcheting, but you don't have to switch modes itself little auto switch the modes for you
01:47:52 ◼ ► I'm using it wireless. I'm using it with the the little wireless dongle in recent decades
01:48:06 ◼ ► Well, you just need one of those little turdied on goals, and you use it with any number
01:48:16 ◼ ► If you have like you know multiple mice and keyboards or whatever you could pair them all with that dongle
01:48:29 ◼ ► And you installed installed drivers for it don't do that like if it works without the drivers by all means do not install any third-party stuff
01:48:35 ◼ ► And I know I hear where you're coming from there. That's usually my ethos, but well first of all I
01:49:05 ◼ ► sensitivity and and there's like window snapping and you know you can switch through different settings or different mice and save them and you
01:49:10 ◼ ► Could let the system control the mouse or let that you know it's very flexible be software
01:49:28 ◼ ► Let's just say it looks like a plastic applicator tampon, please steer mouse change your change your icon to something else
01:49:33 ◼ ► So I already installed that and I found it extremely valuable for trying to adjust the tracking to make them all feel
01:49:40 ◼ ► Good like to make them all feel like the Apple Mouse basically in terms of acceleration curves and everything and surprisingly
01:49:49 ◼ ► But for the MX master, I installed the crazy logitech thing. That is a very wide tampon
01:50:00 ◼ ► Yeah, the the logitech software is called logitech options. It has a terribly ugly icon, but the interface is actually pretty nice
01:50:07 ◼ ► I put a screenshot of it into our slack thing it shows you nice photos of the devices that are hooked up to your computer
01:50:12 ◼ ► And you click through to them and it lets you customize the buttons and lets you you know change the the scrolling stuff
01:50:18 ◼ ► You can change the sensitivity at which the wheel switches from ratcheting to free wheeling. There's a whole bunch of other options you have
01:50:23 ◼ ► Different things for scrolling and pointer speed and different settings for the you know like everything you would imagine
01:50:28 ◼ ► As far as I can tell it has not destroyed my computer the app seems to be well behaved and the tracking on this mouse
01:50:36 ◼ ► Again, I I can definitely say with his MX master. I could not tell the difference between this and a USB connected mouse
01:50:45 ◼ ► Perfect precision in control no matter how fast them over the thing it is and it's amazing
01:50:50 ◼ ► Shape wise I thought it was gonna hate this thing because of the giant thumb shelf and cuz of how high it is
01:50:58 ◼ ► Here is the one big downside and this is has a little bit to do with my setup here the gigantic thumb shelf
01:51:04 ◼ ► There is a little pad again the bottom of the mouse one of the slippery pads is under the thumb shelf at the edge
01:51:13 ◼ ► occasionally I will mouse to the left edge of my mouse pad when I'm traversing my gigantic monitor and
01:51:19 ◼ ► The mouse as far as I'm concerned has not left the edge of the mouse pad right because my thumb is still
01:51:29 ◼ ► but the stupid shelf six out so far that the shelf has left the edge of the mouse pad and
01:51:39 ◼ ► The little pad thing on the thumb shelf catches on the edge of the mouse pad, which is terrible
01:51:47 ◼ ► I need a bigger mouse pad so that I can make the mouse pad extend all the way so it hits the edge of my
01:51:55 ◼ ► Can never be able to get the thumb shelf off the edge because before that happens the thumb shelf will hit my keyboard
01:52:05 ◼ ► I'm using the MX master just because it is the newest one and I'm gonna give it a fair shake of using it for you
01:52:18 ◼ ► What a good knob on a toaster feels like or a good knob on a car feels like or a good scroll wheel feel like go
01:52:34 ◼ ► Which everybody knows but if you don't think about the new Windows logo is literally a square
01:52:38 ◼ ► With a vertical line and horizontal line going through the center of it. That's the logo
01:52:44 ◼ ► It is so generic that is very easy for me to look at this and absolutely not recognize that as a Windows logo
01:52:51 ◼ ► It's also gray on a black mouse, right? Oh, but you know, you know, well, I don't here's I want to say
01:53:10 ◼ ► So if you're like very low mice this now sucks because it's it's higher than the Apple Mouse, right?
01:53:14 ◼ ► But it's it's just plain better. It is ergonomically better and it's easier to hold it has more affordances
01:53:19 ◼ ► It the controls on it like the click feels higher quality than Apple's click on its giant mouse
01:53:33 ◼ ► The MX master is a bit of an abomination. It has a bunch of crap sticking out of it that I'm never gonna use
01:53:41 ◼ ► Logitech has as part of this weird software that I installed that I hope I'm not gonna regret
01:53:54 ◼ ► Transparently switch between them so you can bring the mouse to one edge of your screen
01:54:09 ◼ ► Which you would think that's great because sometimes you've got your work laptop and your home thing
01:54:13 ◼ ► You're trying to do both at once and you don't have two mice and I don't use the trackpad
01:54:18 ◼ ► But it does that magic using networking and I think when my laptop's on the VPN that whole system won't work
01:54:41 ◼ ► I use the Apple extended to for years then I had our si issues and I found that the the Apple
01:54:49 ◼ ► Short light travel like the original Apple aluminum extended keyboard. I found that better for my RSI
01:54:57 ◼ ► They don't take a lot of pressure or distance to press the keys because that's better for my RSI
01:55:02 ◼ ► With the Apple extended - I was you know, hitting the keys too hard and it really exacerbated things, right?
01:55:07 ◼ ► I'm now on the keyboard that came with my Mac Pro, which is the magic key switches, which I love
01:55:13 ◼ ► I like these key switches. These are my favorite desktop key switches I've ever used in my post RSI era. I
01:55:19 ◼ ► Tried the Logitech keyboard and those keys have so much travel. I felt like I was going on a journey every time
01:55:26 ◼ ► They don't have as much travel as the Apple extended - like I'm not saying it's like that but compared to the magic key
01:55:35 ◼ ► I don't I don't have the kind of time to wait for these keys to go down and the key caps are oddly shaped
01:55:40 ◼ ► Other than that the keyboard is and also the keyboard has like a kickstand on the back where it's like cranked up and that's exactly
01:55:45 ◼ ► The wrong thing for a keyboard to do it should be level or tilted away from you even but it weighs a ton
01:55:52 ◼ ► That keyboard has three dedicated buttons where you can hit those buttons and it will cycle through three different computers again using this Logitech like
01:56:11 ◼ ► Three of them at the same time by pressing buttons on the keyboard to switch what the input is and by just moving the mouse
01:56:17 ◼ ► Between the screens which is not a thing that I'm particularly interested in but I'm glad that feature exists and I have to say so far
01:56:34 ◼ ► Kind of nice. I don't know. I mean, maybe maybe next we'll compensate logic software is destroyed my computer, but
01:56:39 ◼ ► So far, I think it's actually pretty nice and then finally finally the camera the you know
01:56:50 ◼ ► Prodisplay XDR does not come with the camera of any kind but Logitech will sell you one for
01:56:56 ◼ ► What is like 200 bucks or something? It's expensive. Anyway, it's a quote-unquote webcam. I think it's 4k
01:57:17 ◼ ► Yeah, I know they said it's like magnetic or whatever. But how does that work? Like is it just you know
01:57:21 ◼ ► Because the monitor case I'm assuming is aluminum which is not particularly magnetic. How does it actually connect?
01:57:28 ◼ ► Well, so the physical connection as far as I can tell and I really don't want anyone to tell me
01:57:40 ◼ ► We're like it kind of like there's magnets in the device and also magnets in the cover and they line up with each other
01:57:47 ◼ ► The wrong way like it just snaps in and you don't have to worry like oh is it is it off is it shifted?
01:58:12 ◼ ► I don't think you can put it on a left or on the right. I think it only magnetized in the middle
01:58:16 ◼ ► Second thing is connecting with the cable. It's USB C. There's a little USB C port in the back of the camera and
01:58:23 ◼ ► You could connect that all sorts of places. I could run a cable from the camera to the back of my computer to the top
01:58:30 ◼ ► To the USB C ports that are on the back of my monitor. Ah, but with the base video card
01:58:39 ◼ ► those USB ports are only USB 2.0 because all the high-speed lanes in the connection between the computer and the monitor being taken up by the
01:58:46 ◼ ► Non display stream compressed video. So all I've got left is USB 2.0. Is that sufficient for 4k video?
01:58:57 ◼ ► That connects directly from the camera and is just long enough to reach any one of the three USB C ports
01:59:04 ◼ ► Which I super appreciate because cable management is an issue and this is a tiny beautiful purpose-built cable
01:59:13 ◼ ► The connector is a right angle for going into the back of the monitor and the other one goes in or maybe I'm reversed
01:59:20 ◼ ► Plugged it into the back of the monitor. I think it's working. I open FaceTime. I saw myself
01:59:31 ◼ ► The monitor is so big that I have to tilt the camera down even though I like I ergonomically adjusted it
01:59:37 ◼ ► So that's top of monitor is directly aligned with my eye line, right? That's where I have lined up
01:59:48 ◼ ► And I like the view of the room behind me. So it's aimed down a little bit the only way
01:59:53 ◼ ► The whole physical setup could be better one if the camera was smaller because obviously it's a little comically large for what it's doing
02:00:09 ◼ ► I'm act so much so that you don't even see that it's there now. I have this thing sitting on top of my monitor
02:00:19 ◼ ► I would like it better if the tiny little purpose-built cable that came to connect this camera to the back of my monitor was
02:00:32 ◼ ► But anyway, I will accept this merely black but not braided cable because it is the perfect length. Oh my word. So
02:00:38 ◼ ► And then so the the gaming mouse I'm interested in because of the high dpi and because the shape of it is the closest to my
02:00:51 ◼ ► I think I've had at least three mice sitting on this desk all connected to the computer at the same time for
02:01:40 ◼ ► Non Bluetooth connections of your mice is also a thing do not turn your nose up at it because it's old tech
02:01:48 ◼ ► Will also add very briefly here you mentioned during your keyboard segment that it would probably drive me crazy that you were saying you wanted
02:02:10 ◼ ► Not the surface ergonomic the sculpt ergonomic that is a it is a split black keyboard with a gap in the middle and elevated on the front
02:02:17 ◼ ► So it's by far my favorite ergonomic keyboard and I've been using it for a number of years now
02:02:31 ◼ ► like there's no there's no coming back from it like after a while like keystrokes will start like
02:02:36 ◼ ► Queuing up or getting missed or something and you can change the batteries and you can move the receiver around and it just never fixes
02:02:41 ◼ ► Itself, you just have to replace it. Fortunately. They're only about 60 bucks mine last about two years
02:02:55 ◼ ► This kind of self-improvement kick for the last couple of years and one of the things that mentioned on the show is I tried to eliminate
02:03:02 ◼ ► Myself from like being able to from having to say like oh, I don't like an entire class of food
02:03:07 ◼ ► so like now I can eat seafood for instance that I used to I used to say like I don't like seafood and that would
02:03:25 ◼ ► Yeah, you know I have like regular exercise my my arms and wrists are in better condition than they've been in
02:03:39 ◼ ► you know mechanical keyboard revolution everyone's going through and everything and I happen to have in my closet for years a
02:03:58 ◼ ► so I thought now that I'm between keyboards while I replace my sculpt, let me try that again and
02:04:04 ◼ ► Sure enough the you know, the sculpt has scissor style keys, you know laptop kind of travel scissor style keys
02:04:15 ◼ ► So like, you know big full travel it felt weird to me to go back is like I've been using scissor keys
02:04:35 ◼ ► It really did feel weird to me and I ended up putting it back not because of the travel
02:04:45 ◼ ► the wrong modifiers and everything because I realized that the sculpt has kind of ruined me for placement of
02:04:53 ◼ ► What it is labeled as the alt key but what functionally behaves as the command key the key next to the spacebar that modifies
02:05:20 ◼ ► Command slash alt and all of the keys on that side like W E, you know for window closing stuff like that
02:05:31 ◼ ► And so I had to switch back just because like that was too much of an adjustment for me like that and the key travel
02:05:37 ◼ ► It just felt really weird to me. So I'm kind of ruined now and like now I kind of feel like
02:05:42 ◼ ► Scissor keys are my full travel keyboard and I mean again really they have been for over a decade
02:05:59 ◼ ► Switches that Apple's moving towards over the years and maybe eventually I won't care and I'll be like, yeah bring me the butterfly
02:06:10 ◼ ► Like it like is this like is there a a lower limit to like how what we will get used to
02:06:15 ◼ ► Honestly, I think the butterfly keyboard might have shown like oh, yeah. Okay. There is such something is too far
02:06:19 ◼ ► I think Apple had a patent on a negative travel keyboard where the buttons actually bulge out at you. Yeah, they hit you
02:06:24 ◼ ► They did have a thing where it's like the screen bulges so you could feel where the keys are
02:06:29 ◼ ► Which is basically negative travel if they don't go in like that reaches out to touch you
02:06:33 ◼ ► Yeah, mechanical keyboards do feel like I used you know, the Apple extended to I used from
02:06:47 ◼ ► Just that same keyboard. I've extended to and then I switched to USB full travel keyboards and then I switched to the
02:06:56 ◼ ► It feels like I said, it feels like you're going on quite a journey to get each key. Press. It's like
02:07:00 ◼ ► Feels like you're using your whole arm. It's like really and you know, again technology marches on I I
02:07:10 ◼ ► Whatever key switches are in this magic keyboard that came with my mac probably prefer that to the butterfly switches
02:07:21 ◼ ► I'm assuming they did a total keyboard replacement because I think that's the only way you can repair these things
02:07:28 ◼ ► It they didn't replace it with the membrane one as far as I can tell I think you're not even able to replace it with
02:07:40 ◼ ► I really like this one that came with the Mac Pro and it the key travels got to be like a
02:07:44 ◼ ► Third or a quarter of what it was on the Apple extended to maybe maybe less maybe I'm you underestimate it. Oh
02:07:50 ◼ ► I I forgot the one thing I forgot to mention about the Logitech ridiculous software that it comes with
02:07:57 ◼ ► Because this mouse has a million different settings on it. Well, so cool things that this thing does it has
02:08:04 ◼ ► Settings for each of your devices and you can also use per application settings and it syncs them all to the cloud
02:08:10 ◼ ► So no matter what, you know, they have some kind of cloud service no matter what Mac you hook up to or any any computer
02:08:19 ◼ ► Your preferences for how the buttons work and how the scroll wheel works and how the tracking works
02:08:40 ◼ ► I don't know what all the settings are. I didn't look at them like it that prompts you and says hey
02:08:48 ◼ ► It has ones for a whole bunch of common apps where it tries to make all the various buttons and stuff do things that are
02:08:57 ◼ ► Maybe why Mike got RSI maybe had a logic setup where he was doing all sorts of commands with it or whatever
02:09:02 ◼ ► But I like the idea that they do most of that work for you and sync it all through the cloud and have sort of
02:09:09 ◼ ► There's like hey here are settings that other people found useful for this particular mouse in terms of acceleration and sensitivity that works with you
02:09:17 ◼ ► Know and I would try other people settings that are like rated with star ratings or something and see
02:09:28 ◼ ► What you would think of in the old days of like you connect a mouse with the computer and it is what it is
02:09:34 ◼ ► I'm I'm I'm really I'm proud of Logitech for like I expected their software to be garbage and I expected
02:09:40 ◼ ► Their mice to be kind of clunky and these things feel really solid and their software seems pretty good and has useful features
02:09:50 ◼ ► But this was my opinion before they sent me the free stuff as well take it take it as you will
02:09:54 ◼ ► Thanks to our sponsors this week Squarespace, Linode and Mack Weldon and we will see you next week
02:11:07 ◼ ► But I don't understand why you don't just do what I did which I a year or two ago would have seemed like heresy
02:11:24 ◼ ► I hate trackpads. Oh my god. You should have had that you should have had this on no trackpads
02:11:32 ◼ ► I am I am probably more devout my hatred a year ago of trackpads than you are, but now I'm happy with it
02:11:53 ◼ ► I'm always going to walk. I am always going to use a mouse for things that are mouse like oh my god
02:12:00 ◼ ► I understand why you have to have one on a laptop because it's a laptop as the only reason everyone will ever use one wow
02:12:07 ◼ ► John I'm telling you a year ago. I would have been even more devout. As an accessory like how Marker uses it
02:12:14 ◼ ► Yeah, then you're like a two-handed thing. This is my swipey pad, and this is my mouse, but no I got it