354: Casey's Computer Corner


00:00:00   It's a show about crash. We only have the Tesla halo left. Oh, it must have and

00:00:04   Man, and I didn't put on logging on colloquy this time. So I don't know if I can easily get to it. I'm sorry

00:00:11   BB out to the rescue

00:00:14   Casey's computer corner. All right. He's computer corner got a lot of suggestions. Wow. All right. I've got all our titles here ready

00:00:26   Messages too long and won't let me paste it. I'll do it in the Skype chat. All right

00:00:30   There you go

00:00:33   For the chat room if you want to be a lead to be be at attacks or like me

00:00:37   How did I get all these titles so quickly?

00:00:40   command a command C command tab command shift n

00:00:46   command shift P exclamation point s return

00:00:51   And then

00:00:54   command F dot slash s

00:00:57   dot star s exclamation point space

00:01:00   command equals command a

00:01:03   command C command tab command V

00:01:07   Those are all the keyboard commands that I type to get those titles out of the colloquy chat

00:01:14   Remove everything except for the tile suggestions remove everything except for the titles themselves and then paste them into slack

00:01:21   All from the keyboard I would have followed that easier if you were talking about destiny. I wanted to do one more I would do

00:01:28   command control s to sort and then I would do

00:01:31   Command shift D return to remove duplicates after they were sorted damn

00:01:36   sensitively like everything in BB edit

00:01:40   I have keyboard like I have keyboard shortcuts assigned to individual checkboxes in BB edit dialog

00:01:45   So when I do when I do command 50 to find or you know command F to do the grip thing

00:01:51   shift control n toggles case sensitivity

00:01:56   So I don't have to reach for that for that checkbox, right?

00:01:58   When you're doing shift control combos, you know, you're probably out of key commands

00:02:02   But I do you but the thing is about these key commands is where I had to think about it

00:02:06   It's like Emacs my fingers just know them and really if I have to re recite them

00:02:10   I have to like do them in my mind with my fingers and figure out what modifier keys they're hitting because they're so, you know

00:02:16   ingrained the the one I was using for getting the things called process lines and it can do more than

00:02:22   Just what I had to do but process lines. I was doing say I have a bunch of lines selected

00:02:26   I want you to do something with these lines and my default is usually

00:02:29   For every line that matches this expression put it into a new document window, right?

00:02:34   But there's a million other things that it can do with it

00:02:36   You know get lines that don't match get lines that do get matching lines into the clipboard

00:02:40   BB edit school people

00:02:44   In summary now, I'm closing some windows. I

00:02:47   Think everything's okay famous last words

00:02:51   So just to clarify it appears that you're recording for this podcast

00:02:56   Yes, it appears that I am recording for this podcast with the emphasis on appears

00:03:01   So call recording echo that you were hearing before is gone. That is correct. So you sound normal to yourself

00:03:07   You sound normal to us. I sound normal to you. I sound normal to me. Everything hypothetically is copacetic. Oh my god

00:03:14   I know you love this so much. Let's start out with Casey's computer corner. So Casey

00:03:19   What computer are you recording on right now? I like with to ask this every week. Yeah, you really do this is so bad

00:03:26   So I decided earlier or I decided over the weekend

00:03:30   But I didn't have time to execute the fact that the response begins with so I know it's gonna be good

00:03:35   There's gonna be a story here. It's gonna be some shenanigans. All right, what's going on? All right

00:03:40   so over the weekend, I thought to myself self what you need to do is you need to go back to Mojave and

00:03:44   see if that fixes all your woes and

00:03:46   That will at least give you more time on this broken iMac that I really just don't want to continue to mess with and

00:03:52   So today I finally have the time to sit down and do that and it occurred to me that I can't do

00:03:59   To the best of my knowledge

00:04:00   anyway

00:04:01   I can't do any sort of like internet recovery to get to Mojave and the only way I can get Mojave is to use a USB

00:04:06   Key, which I had built when Mojave was first out, but I didn't even know if I had that at first

00:04:12   So I find this USB key. I'm very excited very proud of past Casey. I go and I boot off the USB key

00:04:18   That works. No problem. I delete the existing, you know partitions or whatever. They're called in APFS world on on the onboard SSD

00:04:25   Everything's good. I go to click on

00:04:27   Okay install macro s Mojave or whatever it says in the installer and I click that and then I click continue and continue goes gray

00:04:34   You know, it's disabled

00:04:36   and I wait

00:04:38   Okay, five minutes have gone by

00:04:40   ten minutes

00:04:41   15 minutes 20 minutes. Okay, apparently nothing is happening

00:04:45   This is something that Marco you have been saying a lot lately that I would like to echo

00:04:49   Why can we never get feedback from Apple when something doesn't go according to plan? Why?

00:04:54   Man to hell there's a whole log window on the installer, right? Is there yeah, you know, look at the log window

00:05:00   I didn't know there was one. That's totally a log window. I don't doubt it. I'm not arguing

00:05:04   It's just I had no idea you can get it to show everything or just errors. It's okay. I believe you

00:05:10   Well, I should have done that

00:05:11   But anyway one way or another it just froze as far as I was concerned and I didn't know the magical incantation

00:05:15   And this is where somebody's already tweeting at me. No, you idiot if you just go to the view menu. It's right there

00:05:19   Well, maybe it is

00:05:21   I think that's the command for it. I apologize everyone

00:05:25   I didn't realize it probably just would have shown like

00:05:28   Some line where it says doing the the whatever thing and then it just would have been on that line for 20 minutes

00:05:32   so it doesn't give you that much more information, but

00:05:34   One way or another I I decide okay. Well, this isn't working. So what's the next best thing?

00:05:41   I'll do a fresh install of Catalina and hope for the best I guess

00:05:45   Well, you came up after that. That was it for your Mojave. I tried a couple times tried it a couple times. Yeah, did you?

00:05:51   How did you erase the disk? How did you delete all the stuff? Because I have a feeling that's where things went wrong for you

00:05:57   So I booted using the Mojave USB key and went into disk utility and I deleted all the partitions on the hard drive

00:06:05   Did you reformat like the whole thing and put in a new partition table and instead of just removing the the first time?

00:06:13   No second time. Yes

00:06:15   Yeah, the log window probably would help

00:06:17   Yeah, I'm not trying to say that it's not my fault some way somehow

00:06:20   But what I am trying to say is I got no actionable feedback. Yes. I understand

00:06:26   I should have looked for a log window I get that but what I was seeing on screen

00:06:29   Was nothing and so eventually I said I screwed. All right, I'll do an internet recovery of Catalina, which I did and

00:06:36   I did that at about 3 p.m. Today and it is currently 10 past 9 p.m. So

00:06:41   cutting it by the skin of my teeth which makes Marco Oh so happy but

00:06:46   Anyway, so I'm on my iMac. I'm on the same iMac I've had but I

00:06:51   think I

00:06:54   Finally made a decision and I think what I'm going to do is I think tomorrow I'm going to order a custom

00:07:02   16 inch MacBook Pro which to be clear

00:07:05   Clear I don't want a 16 inch MacBook Pro and I do kind of like having a desktop

00:07:14   but the more I think about it the more I think getting an iMac and a

00:07:19   fantasy 14 inch MacBook Pro is the

00:07:23   most

00:07:24   Right answer if I'm willing to set many thousands of dollars aflame

00:07:28   But if I want the best

00:07:31   compromise and the best all things to all people if you will I

00:07:36   Feel like the best decision right now leaving Plex aside which we're going to talk about in a minute

00:07:42   Leaving Plex aside the best decision for right now for me is to get the 16-inch see what I see how I feel about it

00:07:49   I mean if I really hate it I can return it in two weeks

00:07:51   Hypothetically and if I at least think it's passable then I could always resell it

00:07:56   I mean there will be a penalty financially like we had spoken about last episode

00:07:59   But I can always resell it for some modicum of money

00:08:02   And and so I feel like the 16 and one or two

00:08:07   External displays and I'm still wrestling with myself what I want to do there

00:08:10   Which we can talk about if and if you guys are interested at all

00:08:13   But anyway, the 16 with one or two external displays

00:08:16   I think is gonna be the best compromise because it's got

00:08:21   Mega air quotes here all of the power of the Mac Pro that I would buy the excuse me the iMac Pro that I would

00:08:28   Buy I know that's not strictly true. I'm just saying for the purposes of this conversation. I think it's probably good enough

00:08:34   So anyways, it's got all of the power again air quotes of the iMac Pro

00:08:39   I would likely buy it's got the portability to a degree that I still want and I can always put

00:08:47   Effectively an iMac monitor on it. Well not on it or connect to it

00:08:52   You know an iMac monitor and end up basically where I am now except the computer is actually reliable who'd have thought how desperate is my?

00:08:59   World that I'm saying. Oh, I hope this Apple laptop is more reliable

00:09:02   Things have changed since just a week or two ago

00:09:06   Anyway, so I think tomorrow or maybe at the end of the week people are pointing out on Black Friday

00:09:11   You know, you might get a gift card or something like that. Totally. I yeah

00:09:14   I might wait till the end of the week one way or another I think sometime this week

00:09:18   I will be ordering a 16-inch MacBook Pro. So I

00:09:21   Would like to discuss with the two of you the the build

00:09:25   I think I want but before we get there any commentary thoughts input from you Marco. I don't hear what John has to say

00:09:32   I know what John has to say. What's your plan for the monitor? So I'm wrestling with three well, I

00:09:43   Guess one and a half or two and a half options. So the most obvious option is just get the LG ultra fine

00:09:49   Whatever it's called, which is like $1,300 or something like that, which is a lot of money, especially when the computer

00:09:54   I'm looking at is probably gonna be almost four thousand dollars as it is

00:09:58   So by getting this laptop and a LG I'm spending the same money as an iMac Pro anyway

00:10:04   So that's hard for me to swallow. But the obvious answer is get the LG

00:10:09   Ultra fine 5k or whatever the hell it's called

00:10:12   What I think I'm going to do is I'm gonna go back to the days from a couple years ago

00:10:17   when I was rocking two

00:10:20   22 inch 4k displays at my last job II job and I actually really like that

00:10:27   It's not as much real estate on either panel as the 5k and it might even be that it's not as much in

00:10:32   In conclusion what's what I'm looking for in it as in total

00:10:37   Thank you as the 5k but it worked out pretty well a couple of years ago

00:10:41   And the monitor that I had which admittedly was not great, but for my purposes was more than enough

00:10:47   It was out will link it in the show notes, but it was some like

00:10:50   I think was an old it doesn't matter

00:10:53   It was some 4k display that ran just fine and it was sufficient and it's like 200 or 250 bucks

00:11:00   So I could get two of these for like 500 ish dollars. You have four of them for the price of the LG or five

00:11:07   right exactly, so I

00:11:09   So my what I think I'm gonna do is I'm gonna get the 16

00:11:13   I'm gonna get one of these 4k monitors and start there and see what I think and

00:11:18   Then if I feel like I really need more real estate

00:11:22   I'm going to go and get an identical second 4k monitor and at that point I would

00:11:28   Presumably run in clamshell when shy and which Marco I'd like you to tell me what you told me in slack the other day in

00:11:33   a moment

00:11:33   but yes

00:11:34   presumably I would run in clamshell at that point and have these two identical monitors side by side of my desk and

00:11:39   In theory everything will be great. And the thing I like about this is I can spend all

00:11:45   quote-unquote only

00:11:47   250 bucks whatever it is for this monitor and then if I want another one, I just get another one

00:11:51   It's not that big a deal like $250. It's a lot of money, but all told it's not an unreasonable amount of money

00:11:57   But you really rocked my world in the not so excellent way

00:12:00   Although useful way when you told me something in slack the other day

00:12:04   Yeah

00:12:04   and by the way first before I get to that we've heard from anonymous tipster in the chat that I

00:12:09   Forgot about this that the return policy is longer right now because of the holidays

00:12:13   anything that you buy

00:12:16   After November 15th can be returned until January 8th. Oh

00:12:20   I didn't know that so you have you have a little bit longer on Apple's standard return policy right now

00:12:26   So that's that's good to know. So thank you anonymous tipster. That is good to know

00:12:29   So what I said the other day in the chat

00:12:31   Well, you know you were talking about these options and going back to this thing

00:12:34   You did it work and everything and and you know

00:12:36   We were hearing from different friends and listeners who were talking about how you know, they use their laptop

00:12:41   You know as a desktop and it's just fine and I did it for years myself

00:12:44   I talked about it here like I for years I had my 15 inch laptop or my 13 inch MacBook, you know at certain times

00:12:50   next to a

00:12:52   17 inch to 24 inch monitor and it was fine for years

00:12:56   The major difference seems to be whether this setup works reliably or not

00:13:02   Seems to be whether you use clamshell mode on the laptop. It's whether you keep the laptop closed and plugged up into it

00:13:07   Or whether you open the laptop and use its screen in addition to the monitor that you had possibly up on a stand to make

00:13:14   It look nicer and you know get the correct height and everything

00:13:16   so if you use the laptop up on a stand with an external monitor and

00:13:21   You never have to operate the laptop closed with external stuff connected to it

00:13:25   It is it is way more reliable

00:13:28   Clamshell mode where you have it closed and stuff plugged in has always been flaky and

00:13:33   Seems there seems to be no end in sight to its flakiness. It seems like it's it has been flaky

00:13:38   It will be flaky as things were things will always be like it's just it will always be problematic for various reasons

00:13:43   But if you leave a laptop open and use it as one of your monitors that seems to work a lot better

00:13:50   So even though it's still no iMac

00:13:53   That I think gets you a lot closer in in various, you know reliability

00:13:59   and utility ways

00:14:01   Yeah, and that's what I did at work was I did clamshell and the two identical monitors and it actually worked

00:14:07   Mostly well, but that's not exactly a ringing endorsement by any stretch

00:14:14   Especially like like we have to grade on the KC curve here like for you saying something worked mostly well, that's pretty bad actually

00:14:20   You can be like, well, it only rebooted three times a day. It worked mostly well. I

00:14:24   Really want to argue with you, but I can't

00:14:28   Real-time follow-up from me to me the monitor. I was talking about I think I said 22. It's actually a 24 inch LG monitor

00:14:35   I will link it in the show notes 24 UD 58 - B. It's an LG monitor obviously, right?

00:14:41   Obviously so memorable right now in an Amazon in the in the u.s.

00:14:46   $250 in free shipping which for a 4k monitor is nothing again

00:14:51   I'm not trying to say $250 isn't a lot of money, but for what you're getting that is not a lot of money

00:14:55   So again, I could get two of these for 500 bucks. That's

00:15:00   Nothing. This is one of those things where like if you're willing to accept something that isn't quite a hundred percent of what everyone else

00:15:06   Considers like greater or like the maximum you can save a disproportionate amount of money. It's like like jumping from

00:15:12   4k to 5k

00:15:14   Proportionally is not that different from jumping from 5k to the 6k XDR, right?

00:15:19   It's like you can you can have a 5k monitor or you can have a 6k monitor for about five times the price

00:15:25   You can have a 4k monitor or you can have a 5k monitor for about five times its price

00:15:31   Yeah, so if you're happy with going one step down you can save a butt ton of money

00:15:35   This is my PlayStation monitor, by the way, it's my destiny monitor

00:15:39   Oh, I didn't realize that like you did because we talked about it when I first got it for my PlayStation

00:15:43   You said you had the same ones at work. Oh, yeah, that's right

00:15:45   Cuz we were looking at the stickers and all that I'd forgotten about that. That's such a terrible stand though

00:15:49   I still don't like the stand. Oh, it's terrible. It's absolutely terrible. There's nothing I can do to defend the stand

00:15:54   It doesn't move in any way shape or I think it might tilt slightly if I remember right

00:15:58   Well, my thing is that even forget about moving it does tilt but like it's so wobbly

00:16:02   Like I can't have any part of my body touching the desk cuz then little it'll do a little head wobble

00:16:07   Yeah, but but was it $1,000?

00:16:09   It's not HDR not that this matters for your purposes

00:16:13   But like when I was looking for it, it was it was difficult to find an IPS 4k

00:16:17   PlayStation monitor essentially with HDMI input and

00:16:22   HDR now it is not hard to find it. But this one doesn't have it just so you're clear

00:16:26   Yeah, I mean and it doesn't have the like wide gamut color

00:16:30   Your photos on they're gonna look all weird there are problems with this for sure

00:16:36   I'm not saying this is perfect, but for the purposes of doing the normal things that I do writing code

00:16:42   I

00:16:43   Goofing off on the internet. Oh

00:16:45   writing blog posts like for all of those sorts of things this is more than sufficient and

00:16:49   It's cheap enough that if I got one and I decide that the 16-inch life isn't so bad

00:16:56   I feel like I wouldn't hate myself if I put this aside and then got the LG 5k later on

00:17:03   You know what? I mean? Like it's

00:17:05   $500 if this one monitor was $500 I would want to just

00:17:09   Figure it out up front, you know decide am I getting the LG 5k or am I getting this?

00:17:13   You know, well LG 4k

00:17:15   but since it's only 250 bucks like just give it a shot man like try it for a little while and

00:17:20   Even if you don't like it, it's not gonna be the end of the earth. So current plan I think is 16-inch MacBook Pro again

00:17:27   We got to talk about specs, but John I will give you a chance to berate me first

00:17:30   16 inch MacBook Pro with an

00:17:33   External monitor maybe two but probably just one and just see what I think about it and see how it goes

00:17:39   And we still have to solve my Plex problems as well, but we'll get to that in a minute

00:17:42   So John feel free to tell me how terrible laptops are one last time

00:17:46   You're gonna spend like thirty eight hundred bucks for a laptop

00:17:49   You don't even want

00:17:50   and then you're gonna and then your desktop thing is gonna be an ugly cheap monitor with a bunch of cables snaking out of it you're

00:17:56   gonna buy a

00:17:58   docking station of any kind

00:18:00   You know, I was looking at that earlier tonight and I think the answer is yes

00:18:03   But the problem I've run into is based on five minutes of research

00:18:07   So this is not an exhaustive, you know deep dive by any means but based on five minutes of research

00:18:12   I didn't find any that looked like they did what I wanted them to do which is I would like two

00:18:19   monitor outputs

00:18:21   That can each run 4k at 60 frames a second because I would

00:18:26   Hypothetically plug in two of these LG monitors and that basically means two display port outputs from the stocking station

00:18:33   And there was one of I think there was like a Dell that might work with with Mac OS that would do it

00:18:38   They're all ugly

00:18:39   It seems like the ones that have the exact port configuration I want are basically

00:18:43   Made by either HP or Dell or something like that. So like the Cal digital Thunderbolt port things Thunderbolt dock things

00:18:51   Those are expensive but those seem to be reliable

00:18:53   I believe this cost about as much as the monitor they do first of all and well

00:18:57   That's what I was getting at with it when I was saying thirty eight hundred dollars for a lot of you don't want and also probably

00:19:01   A docking station and if you want a good one, that's really expensive, too

00:19:04   So now you're spending a whole lot of money for this giant octopus hydra frankenstein thing

00:19:08   But you think it's gonna be more reliable than your single computer that you can't get working

00:19:11   Well, yes

00:19:13   Everything you just said is accurate the Cal digit Cal digit TS 3 plus is wire cutters pick and the problem with that is it only

00:19:19   Has one display port out and I would want two of them

00:19:23   I don't know if that's possible

00:19:25   The monitor has HDMI in two so you might be able to do it like one display port and one HDMI

00:19:29   Right, if you can get 60 Hertz out of it, though

00:19:31   That's the thing though is when I tried this at work admittedly a couple of years ago when I ran with HDMI

00:19:37   It's exactly what Marco said. It was only 30 Hertz which I said for four and a half seconds

00:19:42   I was like, oh, that'll be oh god. No

00:19:44   HDMI does support 60 hertz just maybe not on the standards of these things from but I don't know you have to look into it

00:19:51   Just see like I'm saying is that this this dock thing is another place where the the aggregate

00:19:57   Viability of your system can really fall down and if you don't do it, you can plug 17 cables

00:20:01   Well, not seven you before cables

00:20:02   You got one for power one for one monitor one for the other monitor and then you got a one port left for any other thing

00:20:07   You need to do and that will work but have fun plugging and unplugging that every time you sit on your desk, right?

00:20:12   No, I agree. And so that's why suddenly the LG it's still a lot more money. But the fact that it works as a

00:20:19   Semi docking station is extremely appealing and I think the the problem the biggest problem

00:20:25   I have with the LG is that in order to get the LG and the

00:20:28   $3,800 computer is the same money I would buy I would spend on the damn iMac Pro now the thing that is I can't bring

00:20:34   The damn iMac Pro over to the library unless I mark. Oh you can I can recommend a case

00:20:39   Exactly, but you take my point is that the this in my fantasy world gets me two computers for the price of one

00:20:48   I know that's not really true. Don't jump all over me. Just hear hear out the spirit of my argument here

00:20:53   It gets me two computers for the price of one whereas the iMac Pro only solves the at-home situation. It does not solve the library slash

00:21:01   Wegmans grocery store situation solve that one when the new

00:21:04   13-inch slash 14-inch comes out I can but I'm so sick of using the adorable with its tiny little screen and it's awful processor

00:21:12   I bought that computer anyway, I

00:21:14   Know but at the time I didn't think I would be using it to do these sorts of things

00:21:18   It's your one computer that still works

00:21:20   Well actually funny you bring that up earlier today my H key was getting sticky so I took compressed air to it and now

00:21:27   Hours later my left shift key is sticking and I can't get it to work reliably should have held it out the window longer on

00:21:32   that car trip yeah

00:21:34   So surprised you your butterfly keyboard isn't reliable. I know I imagine that I've heard that before you must be one of the small percentage of customers

00:21:41   Yeah, right

00:21:42   I think what what is most likely to happen here is you're going to spend a lot of money on a laptop setup

00:21:50   You're gonna spend so much on it that you're not going to want to ever buy a desktop during its lifetime

00:21:55   But really what you probably should do is have both

00:21:57   But I don't know I mean the kind of like BS and flakiness that John and I find with using laptops as desktops is

00:22:06   Also the kind of stuff that you tend to not mind and ignore

00:22:09   In a way, I think I think I'm talking myself into this like for you

00:22:14   No, we're trying to we're trying to give him a better life

00:22:17   We're not trying to allow him to wallow in his continued misery like that

00:22:20   I think the idea of buying something with it where you get the $200 gift card like I don't know if that accounts with a

00:22:25   refurb thing or whatever

00:22:26   You can get some kind of good deal on a two-year-old iMac Pro with the $200 gift card

00:22:30   You'd feel a lot better about that purchase and you can feel better waiting patiently for the smaller laptop that you actually want

00:22:37   Yeah, I mean because it probably isn't that far off

00:22:41   You know, I have tried the lifestyle of specing up at 15 inch to try to replace a desktop

00:22:47   I've been there only a few years ago. I tried that and it was you know, it was a very expensive mistake

00:22:53   basically, I spent a lot of money on a well-specced 15 inch that

00:22:58   Worked as a kind of crappy desktop and and eventually I'm like this was stupid

00:23:04   I'm buying a case to bring the desktop to the beach and and I was much happier doing that

00:23:08   that being said I

00:23:10   Care less about money and more about desktops working really awesomely than you do

00:23:15   So this is probably the right thing for you. I really hate to say it. I would only say

00:23:22   try not to spend too much money on this setup because

00:23:26   Down the road if you decide you know what you'd rather have a desktop

00:23:30   You're you're you will not want to make that jump if you've sunk a lot of money into this setup

00:23:35   Laptops are best when they are kept on the lower end of the price spectrum

00:23:41   Replaced more frequently as opposed to you know, like kept forever like, you know replaced every couple of years

00:23:46   Maybe two, you know two to three years. I'd say is like the ideal way to have a laptop if you can and

00:23:51   You're when you're not trying to make it a desktop

00:23:54   Like I love using my laptop as a laptop when I have to because I'm not trying to make it a desktop

00:23:59   When I try to make it a desktop is when I start getting miserable with like, oh I can hear the fan

00:24:04   Oh God or oh this monitor didn't turn on or whatever

00:24:08   You know, there's issues like that right or like hey, you know, the Ethernet doesn't work reliably out through this dongle

00:24:14   And I wish I had a desktop that then I wouldn't need a dongle

00:24:17   It's just built in you know stuff like that. You will run into all those issues

00:24:20   But the question is whether you care more than you care to keep a few thousand more dollars

00:24:26   I think it's cheaper for him to buy a

00:24:28   You know an inexpensive

00:24:31   refurb iMac Pro with the $200 gift card now and wait for the 13 inch that he wants his total aggregate cost is gonna be less than

00:24:38   Trying to control costs on a weird, you know, Frankenstein

00:24:41   MacBook Pro 16 inch setup now that he may need to sell parts of and

00:24:45   also going down this rabbit hole of like how am I gonna deal with my plex

00:24:49   situation and then still buying the 13 inch when it comes out and trying to figure out how to transform this all into a desktop it

00:24:54   is cheaper to do to get the

00:24:57   Desktop that you want for as cheap price you can get on Black Friday and then waiting a few months and getting the 13 inch you

00:25:03   Want maybe not spec'd up as much because now the iMac Pro handles their heavy-duty needs and then you're done and there's no like

00:25:08   Fidgeting with that setup. I think that will be less money than what you're describing now

00:25:13   Yes, because and we'll get into specs in a second if you can get away with one of the base models

00:25:19   You can save a lot of money because not only are the upgrades grossly overpriced

00:25:24   Generally speaking and you get killed on reset value on the upgrades as we mentioned last week, but also the base models are often

00:25:29   discounted during various sales or things like Black Friday or deals with certain retailers where you know

00:25:35   You know

00:25:35   You go to like B&H your Best Buy on a random day and it'll be like

00:25:39   $150 off one of the two base configurations for no particular reason like you can get

00:25:43   Really good deals on those base models and they're a good deal to begin with compared to upgrades

00:25:48   so if you can bring the

00:25:50   cost of your laptop option down

00:25:53   By offloading that heavy work to a desktop over time. That's an easier solution

00:25:58   That's why you may be able to get away with well sort of get away with

00:26:02   Having the world's crappiest laptop as your laptop these last few years because you have a desktop for your heavy lifting. Yeah

00:26:09   Yeah, and that's the thing is, you know

00:26:11   sitting here now the specs that I think I want are on the assumption that this is not the

00:26:18   Satellite computer. This is the all the time computer and and my argument is make it the satellite computer

00:26:25   I would rather use a

00:26:27   Four year old iMac as my primary computer than a brand new top-of-the-line laptop

00:26:33   See and I don't know if I feel the same way and if would it would be different if this iMac wasn't such a pile

00:26:38   of garbage that never works like

00:26:40   You you still get to buy something on Black Friday and it'll be cool and shiny

00:26:45   And don't just try to forget that it's two years old get a good deal on it get your gift card buy something on Black

00:26:50   Friday feel good about it and

00:26:52   Set that thing up and get everything all settled

00:26:54   So you have a reliable podcasting setup and all your Plex stuff is dealt with and then just wait patiently on this program every week

00:27:00   We'll check to see if the new small laptops came out

00:27:02   I think that would give you the most overall happiness

00:27:05   The only downside is that you can't do it all yet because that laptop doesn't exist yet. That's the only downside

00:27:12   So if you can just make it until the spring, I think you'd be better off that being said

00:27:16   If if you don't care that much about the additional size as I mentioned last week

00:27:22   I think the 16 inch base model is going to be a

00:27:25   Significantly good value compared to a similarly specked up 13 inch or 14 whatever it ends up being

00:27:30   And so if you don't mind the size of the 16 and you want this extra six months of using it

00:27:38   Make the 16 that that computer for you. Just don't spec it up and make it too expensive

00:27:43   get one of those two base models and

00:27:46   You're done and you can get it probably a really good deal on it

00:27:49   And that's it and it's not gonna be that much more than the 13 and you have it now

00:27:54   But also have a desktop in the mix because that will be you know

00:27:58   the best overall setup and whether you keep your current iMac for a little while longer and tolerate it and just

00:28:02   Use laptop temporarily as your primary without going and buying a bunch of stuff

00:28:07   Actually is using it like using its screen as your screen

00:28:10   Like you don't have to set it up as a desktop if it's only temporary

00:28:13   Lots of people use laptops as desktops full-time

00:28:16   I mean you shouldn't without like a standing external keyboard and everything but you can a lot of people do

00:28:21   So like if it's if the idea is the setup that you want is not great right now and you want to wait for a while

00:28:27   Then you can do that too that being said

00:28:31   There is no reason to wait for a desktop

00:28:34   so I think just spend the seven grand or whatever it would be to get both of these things right now and be done with

00:28:41   It because you're a professional this is a critical part of your job

00:28:44   You know, like you're not you're not like a broke 19 year old college kid like you

00:28:49   yeah, you have jobs that require these things and I feel like you're so stuck on this idea like I don't want to spend

00:28:58   $7,000 in at the same time basically

00:29:02   What's the difference if you spend some of it now and some of it in six months?

00:29:05   What's the difference who cares when you have to spend it?

00:29:09   These are computers that you buy every like, you know, two to four years

00:29:13   They happen to coincide right now at the same time

00:29:16   If you buy both systems now, you might be able to get to $200 gift cards. Yeah, right

00:29:20   Like seriously, like it doesn't it's it's an irrational thing to say like I just don't like the idea of you know

00:29:27   And look a lot of pricing and buying decisions are irrational. I'm not blaming you for it being irrational

00:29:33   But it is irrational you're saying like I don't want to spend all this money right now. Why?

00:29:37   You need two computers right now. Basically you have a desktop. That's Brit

00:29:42   That's breaking constantly and you have a laptop that's woefully underpowered for the things you want to do with it

00:29:46   And also by the way, the keyboard is gonna die constantly. So like you have two

00:29:50   Computers that are not satisfying your needs

00:29:53   your lifestyle does seem to need two computers basically or at least two setups a portable one and a stationary one and

00:29:59   You make good money with this job. Just do it

00:30:03   Just get them both now and solve this problem and then we can talk about other things next week

00:30:06   You know, I shouldn't have brought this up with you two because I was so confident in my decision

00:30:13   You're ruining everything my solution by everything John's solution by nothing. What a surprise

00:30:19   I was willing to I was willing to bargain down to buy the iMac now to get the good Black Friday deal because $200 gift card

00:30:25   Is is basically $200 off for someone like Casey who's guaranteed to spend money in Apple stuff

00:30:30   It's not like he's gonna let that go to waste, right?

00:30:32   So that's a good deal and if you can get a really good deal on an iMac Pro

00:30:35   That's good and him buying one will trigger them to update that model. So that's good for everybody else. Yeah, right

00:30:39   Basically, it's giving him a way to satisfy his insatiable need to buy something immediately and then you of course say why don't you just buy

00:30:47   Everything but I'm willing to say buy half the things on Black Friday

00:30:50   It's a reasonable expenditure and then just wait for the laptop

00:30:53   But I'm also mostly endorsed Marcos deal

00:30:56   But this is my least favorite thing idea is spending a huge amount of money on a crazy laptop setup

00:31:01   That is my least favorite by far. You don't say yeah, and then I really because I know we have this notes here

00:31:07   we really I do have to move on because otherwise this whole show is just gonna be okay seeing this computer as

00:31:11   You still have the the Plex problem and that whole other rat hole and if you can get the iMac

00:31:16   You don't have that problem anymore

00:31:17   It's like I'll just run it on my iMac and it'll be fine because I don't want to talk about the 8,000 options for Plex

00:31:21   Servers right now. Yeah, so let me let me touch on that very very very briefly

00:31:25   First of all with regard to the iMac

00:31:27   I did want to bring up that I didn't last week that it does seem like I don't think I said this last week

00:31:32   It does seem like the stuttering with the mouse is considerably worse when the trackpad is not plugged in

00:31:37   So when it's operating over Bluetooth really bad when it's operating via the lightning to USB connector

00:31:43   It's actually not nearly as bad and I don't know what that means really other than weirdness. It's still not right

00:31:50   Correct. Well, and I don't I don't know how this new Catalina build is going so far

00:31:55   I've I mean it I haven't crashed in the last three hours. So that's good. But um again, we're gonna Casey curve

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00:33:43   So with regard to Plex a lot of people wrote in a few different things which are very very reasonable

00:33:51   Questions that I should have gotten in front of because I've had to answer them about 400 times each very quickly number one

00:33:57   Why don't I use the Synology because it's too darn slow

00:34:00   I actually just restarted if you will Plex on my Synology to confirm to myself how slow it is and even just

00:34:06   Browsing my library which is not that unreasonably large is slow

00:34:10   But the real issue is if I ever need to transcode anything

00:34:13   It's just not quick enough because my Synology is six years old now and people often very smartly said well

00:34:20   Just transcode and when you ingest things, you know

00:34:22   So if you could get some sort of weird MKV with like web M or something just put that in you know

00:34:27   H.264 and put it in an mp4 and be done with it. Yes, that's true and that works when I'm in the house

00:34:32   But what happens when I'm at Disney World and the network connection is god-awful and it needs to transcode down to like

00:34:38   480 for me to be able to watch this you two don't jump on me about watching 480 stuff. That's irrelevant

00:34:43   So the point is if I ever want to watch something from outside the house or you know

00:34:48   Maybe on the phone where I want it to be not quite so high quality

00:34:52   Then the Synology falls on its face newer Synology's do support doing transcoding particularly the Intel ones

00:34:58   But the problem with that is that's like Mac Pro iMac Pro money. Wait you say Intel he's working on affluent

00:35:05   Give him a break a fluid

00:35:07   Anyway point is the the doo doo doo doo powered ones

00:35:12   Those are those are capable of doing transcoding on the fly

00:35:17   But the problem is if I were to upgrade my Synology I would want to get a whole new setup and use the existing one

00:35:22   Is off-site backup for reasons?

00:35:24   I don't want to get into so that's like iMac Pro money as well just to solve a problem

00:35:29   That actually is about the only thing in my life. That isn't currently a problem. I say as I knock on, you know, my glass top desk

00:35:34   Anyway, that must have hurt. Yeah. No, actually wasn't that bad a

00:35:39   Lot of people recommended in infuse infuse. I don't know how to pronounce it. I don't know where I don't know

00:35:44   If the emphasis is on right syllable or what but anyway, it's pronounced if you say if you say I don't know

00:35:49   A lot of people must be Italian

00:35:51   A lot of people say you know use infuse

00:35:57   But that doesn't work if I want to share with my family or if I want to use

00:36:02   If I want to use that from outside the house

00:36:05   So what I've come up with is two different options if I do want to solve this with something other than iMac Pro number one

00:36:11   I've heard the Nvidia shield

00:36:13   For most people works pretty well as a Plex server

00:36:16   We actually have a mutual friend who is sending me one

00:36:20   So because he doesn't need it anymore

00:36:23   Which is very kind of him and I will eventually plug his

00:36:26   Stuff if if this ends up working out and he says that's okay because I don't know if he wanted to do this anonymously or not

00:36:31   Anyway, so I'm gonna try that just see how it works can't hurt to try right and the second thing is the actual right ist answer

00:36:38   But because I'm a petulant child

00:36:39   I refuse to listen to reason and that's to get an Intel NUC what I don't know what that stands for

00:36:43   But one of those little tiny computers next unit of computing I believe

00:36:46   something like that

00:36:47   But anyways to get a NUC and put like Ubuntu or something on it and run Plex on there and just be done with it

00:36:54   But I have no interest in in administering a Linux machine. Like this is the same reason that I have my website on Heroku

00:37:00   I just don't want to deal with it. And so a NUC is the right answer

00:37:05   But because I'm a petulant child, I don't want to listen to reason

00:37:07   So I'm gonna try the I'm gonna try the Nvidia shield assuming that I don't have an iMac Pro here in the next week

00:37:13   Try the Nvidia shield see how that works out and take it from there

00:37:18   So yeah, that's the end of cases computer corner unless you guys have other things to add

00:37:23   I would like to challenge your entire identity on one other point actually. Oh god

00:37:26   all right, so

00:37:30   You put a lot into this Plex up. Mm-hmm. Is this all worth it?

00:37:37   I've had that thought over the last couple of days

00:37:39   Because like like what if instead of using Plex for all these things

00:37:45   What if instead every time you wanted to watch some TV show movie?

00:37:49   You just bought it or streamed it on a service and just paid for it

00:37:52   And if you added up all that money that you would spend over time

00:37:56   Would it actually be more than what you're spending on all these hard drives the computer?

00:38:03   That's gonna run the Plex server or the power that keeps them all on

00:38:07   Like what are you actually coming out meaningfully ahead to make it worth all this trouble?

00:38:11   I think there's stuff that he just can't find anywhere like if all those top gears that you have and everything

00:38:16   I can you even buy them anywhere. I don't think so, but I haven't had a need to look because I've already had them

00:38:22   I think you've hit the nail on the head though that Plex does satisfy

00:38:26   Needs that I don't know that anything else can scratch most especially like there is some I get in a kind of unreasonable amount of

00:38:35   pleasure in

00:38:36   Collecting these things and so like take an example

00:38:40   Declan really likes the show Paw Patrol and Nick Jr.

00:38:43   You know every week will put up like another episode of Paw Patrol that you can stream for free

00:38:48   You know you don't have to log into anything

00:38:49   It's just there and I will capture those episodes and stuff them in Plex, and I feel like that's okay

00:38:56   It's probably not strictly speaking, but I feel like it's okay because I'm not logging into anything

00:38:59   It's just free on the internet

00:39:01   And it just so happens that I've saved it off you provided them an off-site backup of their content

00:39:06   You know thank you Marco. That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm providing them a service really they should be paying me right so anyway

00:39:11   So I've saved all these off and so now I have almost the entire run of Paw Patrol

00:39:14   Is that this is so dumb like I hear the words coming out of my mouth

00:39:17   It's so dumb

00:39:18   But I get some amount of pleasure over the collecting and assembling of all of this stuff like Top Gear like as silly as it

00:39:25   Sounds like Paw Patrol and so it does scratch a itch that money cannot feel that that's a problem money

00:39:32   Can't fix, but you're not asking unreasonable questions

00:39:35   I think in the world where I'm Marco and my job is to set money aflame

00:39:40   What I would probably do is I would get an iMac Pro

00:39:43   I would probably get 16 until the 14 exists

00:39:47   And then I would probably upgrade the Synology and get a new Synology as well and just solve all of my computing problems at once

00:39:52   but that is

00:39:54   Literally ten plus thousand dollars worth of computing devices, which is just obscene to be fair

00:40:00   I'm not suggesting you do that, but also like and and yeah, and I'm not saying that I don't see any value in Plex

00:40:04   I've run a Plex server too. I just run a super simple one and I have an ancient Mac Mini that runs it just fine

00:40:09   But like, you know all the things that you're doing with Plex like these do have costs

00:40:15   You know as you're paying for the hardware to run it you're paying for all the hard drives

00:40:18   you're paying for the power and if you back anything up you're paying for more copies of it and more power and all this, you know, and

00:40:23   And you're paying in complexity. You're you know, you you have to run this Plex server somewhere in your network

00:40:29   I'm sure it occasionally needs something from you an update or something, you know something about it doesn't work, right?

00:40:35   I know I've tried to place off of your Plex server and hasn't always worked

00:40:38   So I know as always you always choose to do that at the times when my iMac is dying

00:40:43   But yes, it's all the time is still fair. Well, that's also true. No your point is still fair, right?

00:40:48   and so so there all this stuff has a cost and so like part of my

00:40:52   you know transition into

00:40:55   various stages of adulthood has often been like

00:40:58   You know, can I just apply a little bit of money to make this problem go away because this is something like, you know

00:41:03   I come from a very modest background despite all the jokes about setting money on fire

00:41:06   This has been a very alien thing to to me with the you know with the environment I grew up in

00:41:11   And it's only been fairly recently that I've become okay with setting money on fire to make my life better

00:41:16   I you know, I've been for years I would I would

00:41:19   conserve money or or do things myself in ways that

00:41:25   Really were not worth it at all and that I shouldn't have been doing and that were actually hurting me more

00:41:29   That I hadn't realized I was so obsessed with like not wanting to spend the money on something

00:41:33   It wasn't strictly necessary

00:41:34   This is one of those areas where like, you know

00:41:36   If you look at people have done similar things with their music collections a lot a lot of people maintained huge

00:41:41   you know iTunes libraries and

00:41:43   then therefore had to get a big hard drives and have to pay for lots of storage in their computers and their phones and

00:41:48   Everything over time and then as streaming services became so compelling and so capable and so inexpensive

00:41:53   A lot of people are no longer keeping music collections because they feel like it's no longer worth it

00:41:58   They have all the music in the world in these streaming services

00:42:00   The world doesn't seem to be moving away from streaming services anytime soon

00:42:03   Like it just it seems like it's a pretty safe bet for most people. They don't need to keep music collection anymore

00:42:09   They can just do streaming services and be fine

00:42:11   And so they get to save all that disk space all the hassle of like getting files that were the wrong

00:42:17   You know name or whatever and yeah, a lot of them are pirated a lot of them weren't but like

00:42:21   Streaming kind of made it all irrelevant and I feel like we're in a similar age now for lots of movie and TV content

00:42:26   We're like so many of us have kept local libraries and there is value to that

00:42:32   but it's also such a pain in the butt and it's so costly to keep those local libraries that

00:42:37   For only for most people that I don't think it's worth it anymore

00:42:41   I think it's only worth it for the biggest enthusiasts and you are one of those I think in this way

00:42:48   You know you are I think one of the biggest if not the biggest Plex enthusiasts have ever met

00:42:53   but if most of what you're doing with it most of the time is

00:42:58   Watching stuff that is available on streaming services

00:43:02   it certainly does raise the question of like do you really need to be keeping the stuff anymore and

00:43:06   Then secondly if you if you decide you need to be keeping it

00:43:10   Do you need to be keeping it at the same level of flexibility that requires all this advanced hardware?

00:43:15   So for instance, do you need transcoding or?

00:43:18   Can you keep the Plex stuff for your house in which case you don't even use transcoding?

00:43:24   Or at least you shouldn't be using transcoding within your own house

00:43:26   Yeah, yeah, or and and then when you happen to be traveling make other plans

00:43:30   You know if you happen to be traveling the like

00:43:33   Four times a year that you're traveling and you want to watch Paw Patrol watch something else

00:43:37   Or buy or buy something, you know, but by like an iTunes movie rental in the hotel or whatever, you know

00:43:43   Have you treat the kids to a fun new movie rental for four dollars and not have to maintain a you know?

00:43:49   A beefy Plex server for transcoding like it

00:43:52   How often are you using the super advanced functionality for things that you can't stream and in those cases?

00:43:58   Could you just buy something else or watch something else?

00:44:00   Yeah, I mean I take your point

00:44:03   but I think what it comes down to is I am I'm just a pack rat when it comes to this stuff and and that's

00:44:08   something I'm okay with and and

00:44:11   This particular moment aside like if if my iMac which is my Plex server wasn't falling apart

00:44:17   I would have zero complaints about Plex like everything would be peachy keen

00:44:21   Like I don't really have to do very much maintenance to keep it running

00:44:24   I don't really have to do much to keep it happy if anything at all and the the enjoyment like I get

00:44:30   Immense amounts of enjoyment not only from the hoarding aspects of getting stuff into it

00:44:34   But also the the way in which it has fit into not only my life

00:44:39   But my entire entire family's life and it's so easy for any of us to get to get what we want quickly and easily and it's

00:44:46   A curated it's my own personal Netflix right in the sense that it is a curated list of things that I can stream

00:44:52   Anywhere I want in the world at if the network connection and transcoder supports it at really, you know, really incredible

00:45:00   resolution and and whatnot, so

00:45:03   If it wasn't for the fact that I am taking the server away from my whole Plex world

00:45:09   I would have zero complaints about it and I don't see it a problem to be fixed

00:45:13   it's in this scenario where I ditch a desktop that this all falls apart and

00:45:18   God help me. You guys are starting to convince me to get that iMac Pro again

00:45:22   Which I really wasn't planning on but what's great about the iMac Pro option is that it it sets this problem on fire

00:45:29   It just it just blows away the problem. Yeah, like you have this big problem that is costing you

00:45:35   I mean look at the time

00:45:36   This is costing you how much how much time have you wasted fuck, you know messing with the iMac Pro

00:45:42   And you know you've been or sorry the iMac

00:45:47   You've messed with the iMac for so much time trying to get things to work

00:45:50   The time you that you've been spraying canned air into your MacBook like this time matters this time adds up

00:45:56   This is time that you could be doing anything else or nothing

00:46:00   You could take a nap you could hang out and watch TV off your Plex server

00:46:04   Like you could be doing anything else you can hang out with your family

00:46:07   You could go drive in circles and do donuts in your car. I don't know whatever you like

00:46:11   Whatever you want to do, right you can do you can be doing anything else instead

00:46:14   You're reinstalling Mac OS on a broken computer again. Like it's just this this stuff matters. This is like

00:46:21   You know some of the calculus that that I try to do when I'm thinking about, you know

00:46:26   Is it worth spending money in a problem? Like I often think like what would CGP Grey do?

00:46:32   Like he's really good at like at figuring this out analytically and be like

00:46:37   Can I just throw money this to make the problem go away because it's worth it to me like that's and I often think like

00:46:41   Okay, what would Grey do to fix this problem?

00:46:43   Whenever I have gone with the option, I think he would go with because usually blowing money away

00:46:48   I have always been actually pretty happy like okay. This problem is now gone. I can get back to my work

00:46:54   What he would do if his iMac flaked out as much as yours did is

00:46:59   He would take off his desk put it God knows where and have a new one there delivered that day and get on with his

00:47:04   Work because his work is important, right?

00:47:06   Your work is important. Your time is valuable

00:47:09   Why not do the same thing?

00:47:11   Because I don't want to spend that much money. I don't want to spend $8,000 on computers, but why I

00:47:16   would generally advise against using Marco receipt to be gray as your thought model for

00:47:21   Make purchases, but you know like it all that said like what Marco was saying

00:47:26   I think putting Casey aside for a second because he's a weirdo like all of us

00:47:29   You listeners out there. I think thinking this doesn't actually apply to you Marco's advice is good

00:47:36   I think for the listeners in general for the for the statistical average listener that is out there

00:47:40   Very often if you're listening to a tech podcast you probably have lots of technology in your life

00:47:44   And there are points when technology in your life sort of ages out where it is no longer

00:47:49   The correct choice to keep doing whatever it is Marco had a great example of keeping

00:47:53   MP3 collections or whatever I was saying keeping CD collections is a thing keeping record collections and at various points

00:47:58   It's time to reconsider those you have to decide am I the type of person who's going to have a record collection for my entire

00:48:04   Life, maybe you are go for it awesome cool

00:48:06   Hobby right but for most people the answer to that question was no

00:48:09   You have to let the records go and go on to the next thing and eventually your CD collection

00:48:13   It's like okay. I've been hauling the CD collection around in these giant case logic boxes from dorm room to dorm room

00:48:17   Is this is this still tenable?

00:48:22   Or is there a better solution and so you end up with an mp3 collection and again

00:48:26   And it goes to the streaming music right I?

00:48:28   think

00:48:30   Having a bunch of movies on a server or having a bunch of video CDs if anyone's remember old enough to remember that like there's all

00:48:36   sorts of things that we do that are good ideas at the time that we need to reevaluate and that I think is the

00:48:40   Good advice for the listener to look at your life and think is there something like that in your life where you're spending a lot

00:48:46   of time and energy and money

00:48:48   maintaining a thing where right now you could do it for much less hassle and

00:48:52   Actually much less time and also much less money

00:48:55   By just buying you know renting a movie from iTunes every you want every time you want to do it or buying it from Amazon

00:49:00   Whatever thing you want to do like it it wins in all regards better availability better quality better convenience

00:49:06   And less cost and less time and it's not if you're a tech nerd

00:49:11   It's easy not to see those types of solutions because you're just into the tech

00:49:15   In Casey's case and in many people's case in the sort of the non average case the outlier case

00:49:19   It's your hobby, and you want to deal with the tech like more power to you

00:49:23   I feel like this Casey's hobby

00:49:24   He's also the person I know is most into Plex

00:49:27   And I have a Plex server

00:49:28   And I'm kind of into it too, and I would be hesitant to give it up as I got weird stuff in there

00:49:32   You know weird anime things and like trailers for stuff and things that were never released anywhere that you can only see in some

00:49:39   Place, but someone did a pirated a copy of and like there's all sorts of you know cool stuff that

00:49:45   I have in there and have stuff organized the way I wanted I control cost and hassle mostly by

00:49:49   Keeping the collection small and if I've watched a movie

00:49:52   I'm honest with myself or whether I'm ever gonna watch again

00:49:54   I deleted if I'm not like so I don't have this ever expanding collection it it stays more or less the same size with sort

00:49:59   Of this rotating buffer of things that I think I want on it um and in Casey's case

00:50:03   I don't you know an iMac will do it it might surprise you to hear that if I was into your situation

00:50:11   I didn't have an iMac to run the thing on I would buy a NUC I would deal

00:50:13   I would just like it can't be that hard to set up

00:50:15   But I would just get something that's non Apple hardware because the Mac mini is so expensive such an expensive windows get the cheapest non

00:50:23   Apple hardware they will do the transcoding that you need with some headroom and just shove it in a closet and be done with it

00:50:28   But you know how to do that because you can get an iMac Pro

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00:50:55   Yeah, you know what a lot of stuff is encrypted over HTTPS, and so if using somebody's Wi-Fi

00:50:59   Yeah, they can you know they can sniff plain unencrypted HTTP requests, and yeah

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00:51:16   Always want to use a VPN when I'm using some kind of untrusted public Wi-Fi even as a nerd

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00:52:29   Marco tell me about your office furniture or not office

00:52:36   Furniture it is it is office furniture. Okay, so

00:52:38   On the upgrade podcast this week they started out with using their term follow out

00:52:43   Which is when they had when they basically do follow up on someone else's podcast

00:52:46   And they were talking about they were mad at John for being able to talk all of last week's after show about his office furniture

00:52:52   basically

00:52:53   And various things like that and that they never thought to talk about furniture and they talked a little bit about theirs and it made

00:52:59   Me realize I have had a dilemma

00:53:01   But I want I want to now do some some re follow out or some follow out out or some whatever it would be to loop

00:53:07   back around here I

00:53:08   Want to talk about my office furniture because I have an office furniture problem Marco

00:53:12   Just buy a new house that'll get rid of this problem in one shot. You'll be done

00:53:15   Worry about it anymore. I just have to evaluate do I really need an office

00:53:19   So I hate you guys I hate winter one of the reasons

00:53:26   I hate winter is that it's just so dark and depressing all the time meanwhile my home

00:53:29   I have a home office. It's wonderful

00:53:31   There's no the only lighting in the room are these two lights in the ceiling that each can take three bulbs

00:53:38   But they're enclosed fixtures

00:53:40   And so if you put any LED bulbs in there they overheat and die within a few months

00:53:46   So and I use them I use LEDs in there

00:53:48   anyway, just to get more light out of them than like the 60 watts they're rated for but

00:53:52   Still like it those things burn through lights like crazy. They're mostly burnt out most of the time. I

00:53:58   Just want more light to help me feel better in the winter to help my office get brighter and make me feel less depressed

00:54:05   When the Sun sets at four o'clock, right which it's currently doing

00:54:08   so

00:54:11   Normally, I augment the dim lighting on the ceiling

00:54:14   Oh, I should also clarify also the walls are dark red and behind my computer is dark gray sound foam

00:54:20   So I'm not doing any favors here with like light reflection off the walls

00:54:24   It's it's still it's a pretty dark room by default. So I've had in the corner right next to my desk forever

00:54:30   One of those IKEA not lamps like this is like the IKEA been selling the same lamp for like a decade or more

00:54:37   It's it's the basic like pole lamp

00:54:39   It's a base a pole that's like five or six feet tall and a little like

00:54:43   Bowl on top the middle of which has a light bulb in it. You've seen these lamps

00:54:47   IKEA sells them in for about ten dollars and

00:54:50   They're everywhere and you know, this is a common form factor like other people other people make no pole lamps as well

00:54:56   my solution has been over time and

00:54:59   fortunately with the advent of LED light bulbs to slowly add

00:55:03   Brighter and brighter bulbs to this pole lamp next to my desk to try to make my office brighter

00:55:09   so I'm happier here and I've reached a limit of that because it's like even you know, you can put like

00:55:15   You know like one of those like, you know 150 watt equivalent LED bulbs in there

00:55:19   but at some point

00:55:21   They get so big that they stick up past the globe and you don't want to be able to look straight at them because that's too

00:55:27   Harsh to look at so you have to keep the size low

00:55:30   Now a while ago. I discovered these multi bulbs splitters

00:55:36   you can basically get this little like plastic things that screw into the light socket and

00:55:40   Split into like three different or four different bulbs and they can turn them on their side

00:55:46   So you can kind of rotate the bulbs 90 degrees and have like a little like radial arrangement of bulbs

00:55:51   Or like a circular arrangement within that globe

00:55:54   So my at first I thought let me get as many lights as possible into this one IKEA not lamp

00:55:59   It's try to like, you know, one bulb isn't doing it for me anymore. I want three bulbs or four bulbs

00:56:05   So I finally I figured that out

00:56:07   And I've reached the wattage limit of that. It's not enough light

00:56:12   So I recently bought myself a second not lamp and put it on the other side of my desk now

00:56:17   I have two floor lamps

00:56:19   Problem is they've made the globe on top of the lamp. They've made it smaller. It doesn't it isn't as tall anymore

00:56:24   So now my bulbs are sticking out more easily. So now I currently have

00:56:28   Let me see. I got four in that one. I got so I currently have seven light bulbs that are about I don't know

00:56:35   75 to 100 watt equivalents each and this is a good amount of light

00:56:40   But the ones that are in the left one again with one of those like multi bulb splitters are sticking out the top and they're also

00:56:45   Non dimmable. Oh, I should also mention my preferred temperature is 4000 K, which no one makes bulbs that are 4000 K

00:56:52   except for like two companies, so

00:56:54   so

00:56:56   what I'm looking for and that I have been not able to find is

00:57:00   Some kind of like pole lamp that I can put on one or both sides of my desk that

00:57:08   natively is designed to have like three or four bulbs in it that then I can put you know huge bulbs into each one of

00:57:15   Those sockets and just totally blast myself out with just a complete ton of light. That's what I want here

00:57:20   just a ton of light into my eyes all winter long to try to make me forget that it's winter I

00:57:26   Could get the office renovated and just put more lights in the ceiling. That's the option I should do but that's incredibly

00:57:35   Expensive and disruptive and destructive and I don't want to lose the use of my office for any amount of time to do that

00:57:42   You know a couple of pole lamps cost what 20 bucks like it's not you know, not the end of the world there

00:57:47   So, oh no, hold on if I have to buy a $5,000 computer you have to renovate your fucking office

00:57:53   renovation to put new lights in like it's that's not you already have to you have to open up the ceiling but it's not you could

00:58:01   You already have two fixtures up there, right?

00:58:03   Yes, so that means you have two power sources you can get very large very wide huge illuminated fixtures from those two existing holes

00:58:10   In your ceiling, I didn't think about it. Yeah, just have them like span out for me

00:58:13   That's that's what I did in this room

00:58:15   The room I'm sitting in has only one

00:58:17   Light in the room dead center of this place is like a little wire coming out of the ceiling

00:58:21   There was a light there and for years I had like these

00:58:23   Circular lights that are I don't know it's kind of like you've seen them a little round circular things

00:58:27   I just sort of stick up on your ceiling right? Yeah, every light fixture is

00:58:31   Just like a dome like a dome light, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, right

00:58:35   And and there's a million of them in Home Depot

00:58:37   I always used to have to shop for the one that were the lowest profile because my ceilings are very low in this thing

00:58:41   And and that's what I would get and like you you'd be limited in how well how much like can you get out of a dome?

00:58:47   Thing you don't want it to be harsh

00:58:48   So it has to be like frosted and you want it to go in all directions

00:58:51   But it's just a dome light and you're limited by the amount of light out, but you can get from that eventually after

00:58:58   You know seeing those things die and replacing the the lamps in them and they were facing the entire fixture when it dies

00:59:05   And I went through that several times

00:59:06   I said right so there's one tiny little hole in my ceiling

00:59:09   But you can put a way bigger light than that one tiny hole

00:59:12   and so what I got was this was years ago, but what I got was a

00:59:15   Fairly huge like five foot long

00:59:18   Fluorescent light fixture that instead of having light from one little dome thing now

00:59:22   I have five foot by one foot strip of light with multiple fluorescent bulbs in it that puts out way more

00:59:29   Light than any dome light that I've ever had now you probably don't want fluorescence

00:59:33   Sure, don't you probably you have more than one place?

00:59:35   But the thing is I didn't need to make any new holes in the ceiling. There was no renovation

00:59:38   Hmm, that's just you I just used the existing hole that was in my ceiling and screwed this thing up into the you know

00:59:44   The studs in the ceiling and it was fine. I didn't think about that option not saying you do this yourself

00:59:48   But but you could look at how far apart your light things are and see if you can get one of those things

00:59:53   It's like a giant like carpet of lights inside a frosted type thing

00:59:57   Yeah, so it's just like a giant glowing thing

01:00:00   What you want is like the equivalent of you know

01:00:03   When you get bigger fans inside your PC case instead of it you're what you have now is a tiny fan

01:00:06   You're trying to spin it faster and faster rpm. You need a big fan big lazy slow-moving fan of light

01:00:12   That's what you need. So I don't know what kind of fixture that is

01:00:14   It's probably some fancy designer fixture or whatever, but you don't care

01:00:17   So if you can find something it's like a giant lily pad of light that puts out like

01:00:21   700 watts and get two of them you will have and they're dimmable and adjustable color temperature because these RGB LEDs like that's it

01:00:28   You're all set. Well, that's and that's the other thing too. Like I've learned it. I'm actually like a

01:00:33   Lightnerd what I really would prefer to avoid is anything that has its own custom like LED thing inside

01:00:42   I want something that has a regular light bulb socket so I can pick my own bulbs

01:00:46   And ideally lots of them

01:00:48   Because but if it has the LED one this color adjustable like and those things last forever

01:00:53   Well, but yeah first of all, they're not always colors. Well, they also a lot of times they have weird like CRI

01:00:58   You know color rendering index

01:01:00   Many of them are not dimmable and like I just I want to be able to adapt to as

01:01:04   LEDs and various lighting technology gets better over time

01:01:07   I want to be able to just like buy new bulbs every few years and stick them in because they're better like and when you

01:01:12   Have something that has like a fixed built-in thing permanently

01:01:15   You can never do that. You're stuck with it forever. So I might still be able to find a thing like that

01:01:19   That's basically like a giant sheet with the frosted cover on it

01:01:22   Maybe even vents on the side for LEDs and then inside it has a bunch of LED bulbs

01:01:26   Like the world of lighting is very diverse

01:01:28   So I feel like if you go to like a lighting specialist and say and show them your room and say I don't want to

01:01:33   Tear anything up. I got two places where electricity comes out of my ceiling. I want megawatts of adjustable lights with adjustable bulbs

01:01:38   I'm sure they can find something that will fit and your ceilings aren't low so you don't have that problem either

01:01:42   I feel like you have options. Yeah, maybe I don't know. It's I have a hard time envisioning how I can get

01:01:48   More light out of just the ceiling fixtures like even if I put new ones in there

01:01:54   You definitely you definitely can because that's I mean, I'm not saying it's a total solution because a lighting person will say, okay

01:02:00   You're gonna have your ceiling lights and also you're gonna have floor lamps

01:02:02   So what you're trying to do now is like you're asking too much of your floor lamps and floor lamps are annoying

01:02:06   Anyway, because they take up room and they're just a hassle like, you know, they they shine

01:02:11   They're not gonna bounce light off your red walls or your black behind things

01:02:14   So they're just bouncing it off the ceiling. Like I think you're asking too much of your floor lamps

01:02:18   I think you get better ceiling lights that maybe don't do the whole job and then

01:02:21   Reasonable floor lamps that you're not obsessed with turbo charging and you'll be I

01:02:26   Guess well my other option if anybody knows of a floor lamp that has just a truly tremendous

01:02:32   Dome up top that can fit multiple bulbs with one of these adapters

01:02:36   Let me know but I have been unable to find one. Let me show you my my floor lamp

01:02:40   I had a floor lamp some other room - these are the lamps that I've hooked up to my

01:02:44   Voice thing because it was pain in the butt to keep turning on and off floor lamps because they're in one's on one side of

01:02:48   The room ones on the other these are not great, but they're better than all the alternatives

01:02:54   I had there there what you talked about like there's no replaceable bulb their LED their color adjustable their dimmable

01:02:59   They're amiable and they don't put up that much light

01:03:02   But I have two of them and I don't need them to be super bright

01:03:04   but these are so much better than the long series of

01:03:07   Floor lamps that I had before this that's pretty cool. They're also surprisingly short

01:03:13   I don't particularly recommend them if your needs they're not powerful enough to do what you want

01:03:16   But it was a nice solution that I was happy to find

01:03:20   Well, if I if I just line the whole wall with these if I get like eight of them

01:03:23   I mean they do put out a lot of heat

01:03:26   These are part of the things that are peeling the paint off of my house

01:03:28   You can see where all these lamps are they're shining up on like the trim around my ceiling

01:03:34   And you can see all the paint peeling off from where the lights are

01:03:36   It's just from the heat from the heat and maybe the UV from when it used to be like

01:03:39   halogen and incandescent and fluorescent

01:03:42   Now we're on to LED and I don't I just put these in these for curiosity

01:03:47   But just to see where where are these sort of cheap dorm room floor lamp has moved on from this I think is a superior

01:03:53   Version of that IKEA lamp albeit it like three times the price and without replaceable bulbs

01:03:59   Well, yeah, but these things are last forever like there

01:04:02   The LEDs in there are not it's not bulbs

01:04:04   But it's part of the fixture and it's you can see the sort of venting around that it gets hot and everything

01:04:08   But I'm I have a face that these will last a long time

01:04:10   Yeah, maybe I'll look into something

01:04:13   But yeah, I mean I just I have a hard time thinking that anything is gonna be better than getting new ceiling fixtures

01:04:19   But I I thought that would be only invasive

01:04:21   Yeah, but yeah

01:04:22   But you do need to do both like any lighting person is gonna tell you probably can't get away with just floor lamps or just ceiling

01:04:27   Fixtures or just desk lamps. It's always some combination of things, right?

01:04:31   So if you get a combination lets you balance it and not have to go nuts on any one fixture

01:04:37   By the way, so a few people in the chat are suggesting that I look into the Philips hue line of things

01:04:41   I have I actually we have a couple of those who was one of the steps I took

01:04:46   When I was multiplying the number of light bulbs in my pole lamp was I at one time had four

01:04:52   Philips hue ambience the white ambience bulbs in there because another one of my hair brain ideas that I had in this area was I thought

01:04:59   Wouldn't it be nice if I had like adjustable?

01:05:02   White temperature bulbs basically that would automatically adjust with the time of day

01:05:08   So in the morning and the evening they could be a little bit on the warmer side in the middle of day

01:05:13   They could be on the cooler and brighter side and they would automatically adjust with the Sun. What a great idea

01:05:18   Yeah, it turns out that doesn't work. Like no one makes that work correctly. I don't care. Please don't email me

01:05:24   like I whatever you try like

01:05:26   So the Philips hue way to do that was

01:05:28   Not great and I never got to work. Well also Philips hue has a massive issue

01:05:34   Which is they just don't make bright bulbs and I don't really know why it's like Philips hue has made

01:05:41   Only up to like 60 watt equivalent bulbs for the entire time. They've existed. They've been around for a number of years now

01:05:49   They don't make brighter bulbs than that. Why?

01:05:51   Surely by now you have the technology. I know it would have to be a little bit bigger

01:05:56   But like lots of other brands are making lots of other LED light bulbs that are way brighter than that

01:06:03   Surely Philips can make brighter than 60 watt equivalent bulbs because that's just not enough light for almost anything

01:06:09   So I didn't I that didn't last long

01:06:13   I then decided to try the lifx bulbs because lifx not only has brighter bulbs

01:06:18   But also has a built-in feature in their app to do exactly that thing with the sunlight timing of the of the color temperature of the light

01:06:26   And I have never had a set of less reliable

01:06:31   Home automation smart home things than lifx bulbs. They were so bad and so unreliable that a few weeks ago

01:06:39   I just threw them away

01:06:41   I deleted the app off my phone and just threw the bulbs in the trash can like I just was so frustrated with them

01:06:46   Never working

01:06:47   right staying on constantly or not responding and staying off or like

01:06:52   Three of the four bulbs in the fixture would turn on and one wouldn't randomly like just they were so unreliable

01:06:58   I have nothing but bad experiences with lifx and Philips hue is just disappointing

01:07:02   Like I we have them in a couple of lamps at the end on end tables in rooms that don't need much light

01:07:07   And that's the only thing I found that I use for them for I have very good luck with using

01:07:11   regular light bulbs that I can replace in

01:07:14   Smart switched outlets like I have I use Belkin we most switches

01:07:18   There's a bunch of other ones too. They work fine like switched outlets work very reliably for me

01:07:22   So I'm happy with that leave it at that leave the light bulbs dumb and leave the outlets smart

01:07:27   All that is to say I think I'm kind of stuck here except I guess I should just do what John says and

01:07:32   Change the ceiling fixtures, but possibly not in a way that destroys my ceiling

01:07:36   And you should be very used to

01:07:39   Dealing with people for design considerations for home stuff, and I'm not saying you're gonna use the same people

01:07:47   But talk to a lighting person like again. You're mr.. Throw money the thing to solve it

01:07:52   I guess it gets them under the dock. Yeah, like you know we've done home renovation stuff like I we have people

01:07:57   We can call for this

01:07:58   But like I don't it's just it's gonna be so destructive is like if you have to do anything if they do have to cut

01:08:03   Into the ceiling to install more fixtures which I think would be ultimately the best solution

01:08:07   Would you see that thing to install a bunch of can lights, but if they have to do that can lights now?

01:08:11   Why not there's a reason why people do that you can set parameters on you can say we don't want you to

01:08:17   Wreck the room we have two places where power comes out of the ceiling

01:08:21   What can you do with two fixtures assuming those two fixtures aren't right on top of each other in there?

01:08:24   Why these space in the room you have a lot of options you have a lot of options

01:08:27   What you can do there the room is a big rectangle and the fixtures are two fixtures that are like in the middle

01:08:32   You know offset like it's where you would put if you only had two fixtures in a big rectangle

01:08:36   It's where you put them yeah, so I feel like you have a lot of options just with those two things

01:08:41   They read all you would need to do is you know attach more things to your ceiling

01:08:45   But you wouldn't need to repaint anything you will need to cut into anything like there's the power is already there the switching is

01:08:50   Already there, and then it would just be like that and where do I put the accent lights?

01:08:54   And how do I arrange things and I feel like you can come up with a reasonable solution?

01:08:57   You know just set the parameters so yes

01:08:59   I know you could destroy this whole room and come up with this whole new lighting scheme

01:09:01   But let's say we're gonna leave everything where it is because I think two outlets in a room that size plus flow lamps is plenty

01:09:07   You know suddenly I'm feeling better about my $5,000 iMac Pro

01:09:12   $2,000 laptop that was my plan to destroy

01:09:15   I don't have to destroy my entire office to do to fix the problem

01:09:18   He doesn't have to destroy it either and we and he recommended a $20 $22 floor lamp

01:09:22   And I recommended a $60 floor lamp

01:09:24   So we're all we're still in the realm of still cheaper than your box that would connect your terrible laptop to its two terrible monitors

01:09:35   Anyway, John tell me about Microsoft offices open and save dialog and Catalina, please this was my most recent

01:09:41   Family tech support adventure and it reminded me

01:09:45   Well, I reminded me of how

01:09:49   How many problems people have with Catalina and how?

01:09:51   people who aren't

01:09:54   You know into this type of stuff are gonna be kind of out to sea so this was my parents telling me that they had

01:10:00   They'd gotten it. All right, so they start from step zero. They'd upgraded to Catalina. They don't know Catalina is I had to surmise

01:10:08   It they'd upgraded to it, but it happened like without me without my participation intervention just goes to show that Apple

01:10:13   Pushing updates on regular people is having a real effect somehow somewhat like if you would ask them

01:10:18   If they wanted to upgrade the OS, there's no way they would say yes, but somehow it happened to them

01:10:23   Like like wife being dumb is it just it's just happened to them, you know, so I'm surprised

01:10:28   You know, who knows how long they've been running it, but I start talking them and it becomes totally clear that they have running Catalina

01:10:34   Whether they know it or not, right and of course once they're in Catalina

01:10:38   It told them that a bunch of their old software is no good. So they got a new version of Microsoft Office

01:10:42   So good for them. They bought software even though software like batteries to people that generation should be free

01:10:47   You know who buys software I can't even get the I

01:10:51   Struggled to try to get them to buy like more iCloud storage so I could stop seeing the messages for their 5 gig

01:10:56   But you know anyway somehow some way they bought office because I guess they consider that real software because they were in like the workforce long

01:11:02   Enough for like Microsoft Office. Well, that's real software. I'll pay for that. Anyway, they paid

01:11:07   for a new version of office so Catalina and the new version of office and

01:11:11   they don't have to use any of this stuff because

01:11:14   Office is different Catalina is weird and so on and so forth and my

01:11:16   father was in a panic because

01:11:19   He tried to get some Excel document and he tried to email it to somebody but he accidentally emailed the wrong thing and he couldn't

01:11:26   Find the Excel document that he just worked on. He's like, I know it's there somewhere, but I don't see it anywhere

01:11:30   I'm a hard drive. Where is it? He said something about it's like in a cloud or no

01:11:34   It's in it's in a drive or something. So I got a you know parachute in for tech support

01:11:39   And figure out what's going on

01:11:41   I mean my best guess was I know the new version of office pushes one drive pretty heavily and from the words

01:11:47   They were saying I think they were reaching for like one drive and that could explain why they don't see it on the computer because it

01:11:51   Saved them one drive or whatever. So and

01:11:54   Pro-tip for people who haven't done tech support for anyone in their family recently or

01:11:59   And or are doing it the old-fashioned way. You got to take control of their screen like don't don't

01:12:04   Texting them on the phone like email you just shoot yourself in the head. Just you have to take control of this screen

01:12:11   It's pretty easy with messages if you have an Apple computer and they have an Apple computer

01:12:15   You can say ask to share their screen have them say yes. It's such a relief. Oh my god. Anyway, I

01:12:20   Share the screen to see what the deal is

01:12:23   And you know at that point, you know, and you can hear them talking

01:12:25   So it's like you have real-time audio communication

01:12:28   You're both looking at the same screen and you are controlling the cursor that that's the way to get it done

01:12:31   So we go and he's like, here's my thing

01:12:34   But I don't know where it is and blah blah blah and it turns out, you know

01:12:37   When you go to the open save dialog box in office in Catalina

01:12:40   It was showing like one drive like the left sidebar was like this is your one drive

01:12:46   it didn't even let less like Dropbox or was like here's your one drive and your various folders in one drive and

01:12:50   So on and so forth

01:12:53   and we could find the spreadsheet that they were talking about in one drive and

01:12:57   Open it and like this is a spreadsheet talking about right? I'm like, okay great

01:13:00   Well, I'm just gonna save this on your computer

01:13:02   So I go to save and you get the same dialogue and the same dialogue box also shows

01:13:05   One drive and so I'm looking for the thing to say I don't want to see one drive on to see my computer

01:13:11   In open save dialogue boxes over the over the decades

01:13:14   There are many ways that applications can extend the open save dialogue box on a Mac OS some official some unofficial

01:13:22   Most of the ones you'll see these days like the bottom portion of the open save dialogue

01:13:27   You can put some UI there

01:13:28   So in this case, there was a kind of ungainly UI that office is putting there

01:13:31   There was a button on the left that said

01:13:33   On my Mac or something or go to my Mac or save on my Mac or something

01:13:38   It was a weird button like it wasn't worded very well

01:13:40   But it was clear that this button if you click this button

01:13:43   It would stop showing one drive and start showing your hard drive, right?

01:13:48   And I have that same version of office which I preemptively bought because I'm gonna eventually someday upgrade Catalina too

01:13:53   So I needed a version that was all up to date. I

01:13:56   Didn't recall seeing that button. I don't think it was the default but somehow maybe they click that button and got confused

01:14:02   So I see that button it says on my Mac or whatever and I click it

01:14:05   and

01:14:07   The open save dialogue box goes away

01:14:10   Just slides back up. It's like goodbye

01:14:14   Okay, and so I you know, the document is still open but it's open in one drive or whatever and I could just like install one

01:14:21   Drive or mounted and take the thing off and now I want to figure what the hell's going on here

01:14:24   Like the button says like on my Mac or whatever and it's weird for a button to be a toggle

01:14:29   You know what? I mean? Like imagine clicking a button in a dialogue and the dialogue box changes

01:14:33   It's like a radio button kind of thing. It's like the wrong control for this

01:14:35   But anyway, it's a button and I know you're limited in how you can enhance the open save dialogue boxes

01:14:39   But I'm pretty sure this is the right button. I do it like five more times same thing happens

01:14:42   You click the button dialogue goes you and it's gone. Nothing has happened. Nothing has been saved nothing

01:14:46   So then I google to make sure that that's what this button is supposed to do and sure enough

01:14:52   Yep

01:14:52   if you click that button

01:14:53   it's supposed to

01:14:54   switch the open and save dialogue box to say to show your hard drive and

01:14:57   I'll be like normal and at the bottom the button says like in the cloud or something like that and you can switch to the

01:15:02   other version and

01:15:04   As soon as I found out that's how the things supposed to work

01:15:07   You know, I put two and two together because this one of the permissions dialogue. Yeah. No, of course

01:15:11   It's it's a it's a permission thing because the application not to ask permission to do stuff and maybe they had the open save dialogue

01:15:17   Was defaulting to a directory like desktop or documents folder

01:15:20   They didn't have permissions for and in theory Catalina should have thrown up a dialog box

01:15:24   It says do you want Microsoft Excel to have access to your desktop?

01:15:26   And I would say yes, but it never did throw up that dialogue

01:15:29   Now if you don't know what Catalina is doing to the permission model

01:15:33   Which regularly use a shirt should should not need to know you would never guess this in a million years because nothing in your prior

01:15:39   History of decades of using the Mac. Have you ever had to give Excel permission to view the desktop and

01:15:46   The fact that office was just eating this error and just being like I'm out

01:15:51   No access and not throwing up a Catalina dialogue asking even permission

01:15:55   Like they would never have figured this out

01:15:58   They would have just been like and and they would have thought it was a Microsoft Office bug and for all I know it is

01:16:02   Maybe it is an office bug, but it's a combination of office in Catalina. So there is probably a way to get

01:16:09   Excel to have access to the desktop folder and document but me being me

01:16:13   I immediately added all the office applications to full disk access

01:16:17   In the permissions dialog box because I don't want to get any more of these calls and lo and behold if I put all those apps

01:16:23   Give them full disk access in the Catalina permissions dialogue

01:16:26   Yeah, it worked you click that button the dialogue switches and now you can see their hard drive

01:16:30   And I showed them how to switch back and forth and so on and so forth. So here's an example of Microsoft and or Apple

01:16:37   Really falling down on the new Catalina security model, which I mostly endorse but yet it has to work situations like that

01:16:43   No regular user is ever going to figure out unless lots of other people run into it and it's potentially Googleable

01:16:48   But I don't even know if they would know the right thing to Google for and my quote-unquote solution of getting full disk access

01:16:54   Isn't really the right solution, but it's the type of thing where it's like I don't I don't want to have to deal with this

01:16:59   Again, I just wanted to you know, sort of go back to the old way

01:17:02   I'm not gonna turn off, you know system integrity protection or go over that far but

01:17:07   Problems like that frustrating and not encouraging

01:17:10   so I guess I guess it is encouraging that they were able to successfully update Catalina themselves and

01:17:15   Didn't have any particular complaints about the OS but it turns out the main problem they were having with this application

01:17:21   Was partially because of Catalina. It's that's not great. And at least it's one problem that Casey isn't having so that's the only one

01:17:28   The only one John have you if either one of you in your Catalina installs?

01:17:33   Resorted to giving applications full disk access besides I suppose terminal which it's reasonable to give that I don't think crash plan

01:17:40   But yeah, that's reasonable to write that's expected

01:17:44   But like I think most applications expect you to say oh just give me access to your desktop

01:17:48   Oh, just give me access to your documents folder and that's all I'm ever gonna need it and you're fine

01:17:51   I'm sure I'll find us a lot when I actually do upgrade to Catalina

01:17:57   But for now I am avoiding it and I think that is still wise

01:18:01   Yeah, I still I mean I'm running on my laptop simply because it came with it

01:18:04   but I am NOT running on my desktop yet and I it's just I

01:18:08   Don't even think about most of the time because I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything cool by not having upgraded yet

01:18:14   Like there's no big features that I'm that I'm looking forward to there's nothing

01:18:18   I'm like, oh, I wish I wish I would just upgrade so I could then do X

01:18:21   But I don't want to because it's you know, because it would cost me, you know time and bugs. Nope

01:18:26   There is nothing like that. There's no motivating factors. There's just nothing yet

01:18:30   like I thought catalyst would be that but I'm still pretty far from being able to do anything with that and

01:18:35   And so no, it's just nothing. I have no motivation to upgrade on my desktop. I'm very

01:18:40   Totally happy just continuing to use Mojave, you know indefinitely

01:18:44   I want to use the new photos app and I think I would like the TV app

01:18:47   But the other hand, I don't want to say goodbye to iTunes and for the music app. So I'm I'm kind of torn

01:18:52   Most of the reason I haven't upgraded is because I'm terrified of the upgrade process of photos, which I've heard bad stories about, right?

01:18:58   No, but I do want it you I'm always looking for new features and photos or any any change photos whatsoever

01:19:04   Presumably it changed for the better. So that's my main draw, but I'm I'm currently able to resist pretty easily

01:19:09   Yeah, yeah, and like I don't like I had like the music app. Honestly, I think that's I think it's a huge step back

01:19:15   Yeah, I use it on my laptop. I really don't like it. There's there's significant regressions from iTunes

01:19:21   I don't know what they were thinking with that. I don't know why they had to mess with it so much honestly, but

01:19:27   Whatever reasons they had I hope they

01:19:30   Bring it back soon

01:19:31   I heard there I read on the column browser and the newest beta or something if that's true

01:19:36   That's great because that's the way I browse my music and it has sucked on my laptop not having that for so long

01:19:40   But everything about it

01:19:42   It seemed like it's either like a wash or a loss in some way

01:19:47   Or or a risk in some way and this just doesn't sound appealing at all to me

01:19:51   Yeah, I got no good thoughts about Catalina. So I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut

01:19:57   Hey, you know what if you don't wait for an iMac Pro update

01:20:00   You can buy the current iMac Pro and you can install Mojave on no matter what it comes with

01:20:05   You can install Mojave on it's compatible. That's true

01:20:07   That's but if you wait for the next iMac update

01:20:09   You will be forced to have Catalina on it

01:20:11   And if you have a desktop and a laptop

01:20:13   You can have a machine that use most of the time that doesn't have Catalina on it

01:20:17   You you really are intent on me setting all of my money aflame. I just don't want to tear my office ceiling apart

01:20:24   It's it's like I haven't known you for 20 years or something. It's less money though. I remember it's less

01:20:28   It's less overall than everything you would have to buy on this long, you know

01:20:32   String of computer purchases you're gonna get it's right again like who cares whether you spend it now or six months from now

01:20:39   You're still it's who cares. It doesn't matter. It's true

01:20:41   It doesn't matter because we've talked about it too much Adam wants us to know about Amazon's customer support quote-unquote text tree

01:20:48   Tell me about this that wasn't the phone tree thing with text where you're like, you know, do you want to do this?

01:20:53   Do you want to do that and I was complaining that you have limited options and then eventually you just did ends

01:20:57   I actually have two pieces on this one on every product page and Amazon there on the detail page

01:21:02   There is a link somewhere that says do you have a problem with this listing and you can just click that and you immediately get

01:21:07   To the thing that you can say something's wrong with it. The image is wrong

01:21:09   You just type a text message that is a faster way to do this rather than going through the support

01:21:14   Chat thing that I did but to according to Adam if you're in that chat thing

01:21:19   Just type agent as the your text string when you get a chance to type something

01:21:23   Type agent once or twice and you will eventually get connected with a human in theory

01:21:28   So next time I'm gonna try that agent agent agent

01:21:31   Do you think that actually works because you're typing agent or do you think it's like this person is typing something?

01:21:37   We don't recognize three times in a row. We'll just kick into a human. I think agent probably

01:21:41   It's like when you when you yell obscenities into it the phone tree and like the thing like the basic AI recognizes angry customer noises

01:21:49   Yeah, or if you just hold down star or you know, hold down zero

01:21:53   There's all sorts of things that are reasonable signals that you want a human being

01:21:57   There's like those websites like get human calm which tells you how to get a human like the thing about get human and stuff is

01:22:03   Usually for phones. I don't know if they've upgraded for text, but this type of thing. I think you used to

01:22:08   Be fairly assured that if you were typing text chat back and forth you were probably talking to one

01:22:14   Poor overworked human who's chatting simultaneously with 97 people and who's mostly copying and pasting using macros to fill in the things

01:22:22   But still it's human triggering the macros right just to figure out which thing to be triggered but these days

01:22:26   With the with advancements in a very basic, you know

01:22:31   70s text adventure level AI

01:22:34   And the continued need to drive costs down. You're not talking to a human

01:22:39   You're just talking to you know, a text version of a phone tree or some very simple AI and you really do want to go

01:22:45   star zero agent

01:22:48   Whatever to get to the actual human

01:22:51   What do we want to do from here? I feel like time for ask ATP. Yes spend a lot of time on your computer

01:22:57   I know I feel like it's too by Friday where I just wanted to start this whole thing over and I apologize

01:23:01   Profusely for this whole episode. Oh, you don't have that option and neither do they hey, you know what our listeners do they buy computers

01:23:08   This is relevant. This is relevant content

01:23:11   I guess I don't know this this became I should have been paying more attention to the clock

01:23:15   But because it's about me I was riveted

01:23:17   God I'm so sorry for everything. It's fine. Just buy all the computers. It's fine. Oh, yeah

01:23:23   That's what I have to do repent. I want you to do it

01:23:26   They want you to do it you want you to do it

01:23:29   The only people who don't want you to do this are John and half of you

01:23:33   I had I had a plan that allowed him to buy things - I had an acceptable to me plan that allowed him to buy things

01:23:39   On Black Friday and get cool new computers

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01:25:43   The amusingly named ask. Dr. Tuna writes my grandson who is 11 is obsessed with Apple

01:25:51   I gave him my old MacBook Pro

01:25:53   Should I encourage him to learn Apple script or is Apple script not long for this world? I

01:25:57   Don't have terribly positive thoughts about Apple script I find it because I'm a developer I suppose I find it to be

01:26:05   completely inscrutable and

01:26:08   Not like anything else and that's not a compliment

01:26:11   So I would not encourage Apple script personally, but that's just my two cents

01:26:16   Marco I'd be curious to hear your two cents and then we will let the resident old man round us out and

01:26:23   To help tell us what he thinks. I love the idea of letting power users automate things on their computers. I

01:26:30   Don't love Apple script as an implementation of that idea agreed agreed

01:26:35   It is it is a very difficult language to understand and to write it reads really easily

01:26:41   You can look at it. You know, wow, it's so magical then you try to write it and it's like what?

01:26:45   How how do I even know what to say and then you try things and it's wrong like it

01:26:49   I I don't think Apple script is is a great language at all

01:26:53   I think it's actually very hostile to try to learn and it's mostly done by copy and paste I think

01:26:59   And furthermore, I think it's already dead. Like not only is it does not have a bright future

01:27:03   I think it doesn't even have a bright present and it doesn't even the past has not been kind to it

01:27:08   Apple script I think is is totally totally dead now as

01:27:13   Again, I love the idea of automation

01:27:17   But but I think there I think it's not the right way anymore. I

01:27:20   Feel like there's some

01:27:23   attraction to Apple scripts because you might hear that scripting is a sort of an easier

01:27:30   friendlier version of programming and someone's into Apple so surely Apple script is the thing they want but

01:27:36   Kind of like JavaScript. I think you might be misled by the name

01:27:39   So no, you should not encourage your 11 year old grandson to learn Apple script

01:27:44   On the second half of this question. Do you think it's not long for this world?

01:27:47   I think it is probably gonna stick around for longer than we all think it should I mean it kind of already has

01:27:53   That doesn't change things. No, your son should not learn Apple script. No, your grandson should not you learn apps

01:27:57   What should he learn at 11? I don't know

01:28:01   I didn't do a very good job of getting either of my children interested in programming when they were that age

01:28:07   But eventually my son eventually came around on his own and is learning Swift in his high school class. I feel like

01:28:13   The kids have to show an interest on their own what if they're into

01:28:17   Programming there's lots of good apps on the App Store that are programming like you know

01:28:23   This I forget the names are like hop hop scotch and scratch and there's this Swift playgrounds thing

01:28:29   There's all sorts of stuff like it doesn't really matter

01:28:31   It's just that they have to show an interest in it if and when eventually he

01:28:35   Wants to get serious about programming for Apple platforms, then yeah, you can start learning Swift and Swift playgrounds and all that stuff

01:28:42   but uh, it's a long road and it really you know, there's I don't like encourage him to learn Apple script like it's it's like

01:28:50   encouraging somebody to be into the accordion like I suppose you can do it but

01:28:56   Like they really have to take an interest themselves now, we're gonna hear from all the accordion player. I don't know

01:29:02   Yeah, it's not a good. I was trying to think of something like that. You can't like

01:29:08   The person has to have an interest in themselves like programming is like that. You can't like

01:29:12   Lead someone to programming like you they just they have to take to it, right?

01:29:17   You can put it in front of them

01:29:18   You can say you can present it and say here's the thing you might be into but if they go now

01:29:21   Then they're not into it like same thing put a musical instrument in front of them

01:29:25   See if they're into it put a different musical instrument

01:29:27   Like it's part of being what a parent is present the kids with options

01:29:30   But you know, it's the trope that we hopefully are all familiar with from all the media

01:29:34   We've ever consumed in our time if you push your kid into literally anything

01:29:38   Even if they would otherwise like it they will

01:29:41   Probably like it less and probably also resent you so don't do that

01:29:45   Chris cast writes you guys specifically Marco Arman talk a lot about bouncing back and forth between laptops and desktops

01:29:52   What the hell Chris? Where am I on this?

01:29:54   Like the last like three episodes of it all and whatever anyway, thanks Chris writes

01:30:00   How do you how do you keep all of your configs preferences etc in sync or do you use specific machines for specific purposes?

01:30:07   Well, I guess I don't need to answer this one. Do I Chris so Marco?

01:30:10   I

01:30:15   mostly just do manual things like if I change your preference on one I'll change your preference on the other but

01:30:20   overall my my general theme to this is

01:30:24   outside of a few exceptions like I have like, you know, I have like my text mate preferences and I I just put those

01:30:29   In Dropbox and whenever I set up a new laptop

01:30:32   I just copy them into the text mates folder and that's it, you know

01:30:34   And I'll use Dropbox if for anything that can be synced easily through Dropbox automatically

01:30:39   But you know, that's that's about the extent of that. Ultimately what I try to do is

01:30:43   Try to run as stock of a setup as possible such that I can set up a totally clean install

01:30:50   With the way I like to do things

01:30:53   Within like a couple hours, you know, and so it's not a huge deal

01:30:57   like so I actually don't use a lot of like power user tools and workflow tools automation stuff like

01:31:03   the way a lot of people will use you know things like

01:31:06   Like hazel to automate a whole bunch of stuff moving around text expander

01:31:11   Keyboard maestro a lot of these tools that a lot of our friends use that are super powerful

01:31:15   I just not gotten into like I recently I

01:31:18   on

01:31:21   years of recommendations

01:31:22   I tried better touch tool on the new laptop to try to customize the touch bar and better touch tool is just a

01:31:29   Massive arsenal of power tools and I ran it for like one night and I'm like, this is too much

01:31:36   I don't want this and it's it looked amazing. And if you're the kind of person who likes that kind of stuff, that's amazing

01:31:43   But it was so not for me. I very quickly realized like oh, this is this is not what I'm looking for

01:31:49   And that was it. I like to keep things fairly minimally customized that way

01:31:55   You know a I can sit down in front of any computer and get things reasonably, you know reasonably done and be

01:32:02   When I do want to get a new computer or when I'm using multiple computers

01:32:05   There's not that much to keep in sync between them

01:32:09   Yeah, I mostly feel the same way. I

01:32:12   Have gotten very quick setting up a new computer these days. So that's good

01:32:17   I do use Synology Drive. I've mostly divorced myself from Dropbox. Synology Drive is not perfect

01:32:23   It's kind of their faux Dropbox, but it's not actively trying to be awful, which is an improvement over Dropbox. So that's good

01:32:30   They're trying bust their hearts. Just not it's not as good as Dropbox

01:32:34   but anyways, but yeah, like you said Marco like if there's I

01:32:39   Try to stay as stock as I can and for the things that can't I just synchronize that stuff manually by you know

01:32:44   Clicking around in system preferences for example and plus almost everything I do

01:32:49   All of the stuff that I do is all in like github or you know some other repository online

01:32:55   So there's there's very little like in the days of your which we've talked about

01:33:00   Many times on the show like using micro not John but you and I used briefcases on Windows

01:33:05   Which I don't know if that's even still a thing, but that was there like faux r-sync

01:33:09   That's what those did. Yeah, my briefcase. I remember that. Mm-hmm. Yeah

01:33:14   Yeah, I thought I used them very successfully way back in the day when I had a tower and a laptop and it was I

01:33:20   Mean it was Windows. So it was

01:33:22   Wonky and fiddly but it actually worked pretty well

01:33:24   anyways

01:33:25   I don't have that the I bring those up to say I don't really have a lot of that anymore and what little I have

01:33:31   Is stored in Synology Drive or you know Dropbox or whatever your equivalent may be

01:33:35   So I it's not really a problem for me John

01:33:39   I presume you have like some sort of figurative and or literal firewall between your work computer and your mac Pro

01:33:46   Yeah, like my thing is I don't actually want the same settings on all of my computers

01:33:51   Especially if one of them is a desktop one of those laptops. I don't have any sort of comprehensive syncing thing like Marco

01:33:56   I do keep like my most extensive settings in Dropbox. So BB edit. I have tons of settings

01:34:01   Honestly, I don't even know what they all are anymore

01:34:03   All I know is that if I launch BB edit on a system without my settings like what the hell is this?

01:34:07   I don't recognize this text editor. So apparently I'm customizing it a lot

01:34:10   But the like BB edit has native within the application ability to understand and sync through Dropbox

01:34:15   So my entire BB edit application support folder is in Dropbox that includes not just all my settings

01:34:20   But all of my like scripts and key bindings and like just you know sample templates and preview

01:34:26   CSS files and like everything so I think that's like my most important and extensive settings my browser settings and

01:34:34   Preferences like that when setting up a new machine able just manually, you know, I'm so used to manually

01:34:41   Dragging preference files in or pls files these days or whatever

01:34:45   I'll do that and of course as you both know

01:34:48   That's not such a big hassle even though it sounds like because how often do I set up a new computer?

01:34:52   It's not that often so

01:34:54   When I get my new Mac Pro guess what I'm gonna be doing it

01:34:58   I'm gonna use migration assistance, which gets almost all of it done for me and then like on an ongoing basis

01:35:03   synchronizing settings between my laptop at work and my desktop if there's a setting that is

01:35:09   A new like they're both already set up if there's a new setting and a new version of the rest

01:35:13   I'll just set it in both places

01:35:15   But my settings on my laptop are very different than my settings on my desktop like everything you go to in system purposes is different

01:35:22   So I'm perfectly content to have two different set of settings even for applications

01:35:26   Things are different because my work laptop first of all for people who don't work

01:35:30   You know

01:35:33   jobs in

01:35:34   techno corporate overlord situations they

01:35:37   Override a lot of settings on your laptop whether you like it or not so whatever my preferences are they have the screen locks set

01:35:44   To activate after X number of minutes for security reasons, and you know all sorts of stuff like that

01:35:48   So I got to deal with that and then on top of that. I just manually do whatever settings on

01:35:53   Excellent so speaking of things. I cannot pronounce correctly

01:35:58   Is this I message read or read receipts? I always say red, okay?

01:36:03   alright, so I message read receipts on or off for me on and

01:36:07   About three or four times a year

01:36:10   I wonder if that's the right answer, but it's been on pretty much ever since it was a thing John

01:36:13   Let's start with you on or off off always off my the the main

01:36:18   And I think everyone should have them off not just me

01:36:22   The the thing that I find most attractive about I message and slack and things like that is that it's asynchronous

01:36:28   Messaging it may seem like it's synchronous like you're in a conversation

01:36:31   But it's not the social obligation as far as I'm concerned is that it's asynchronous

01:36:35   It's better than getting someone on the phone because if they're in the middle of something they're driving or they're talking to somebody else

01:36:42   So they're taking a dump whatever it is that they're doing

01:36:44   synchronous would mean

01:36:47   You need their attention right now

01:36:49   asynchronous like I message or slack or any other thing is you send the message and

01:36:54   Maybe their phone buzzes or bloops or vibrates or maybe it's set to totally silent and maybe it's in another room

01:37:01   But eventually they'll see the notification or whatever and see that you got a message and then at that point

01:37:07   It also doesn't mean that they then have to respond to you

01:37:10   That's what a red receipt would make you think oh, they read my message. Why aren't they responding?

01:37:14   It's better to not know when they read your message

01:37:17   So then you can just think obviously they haven't read my messages and then so every time a message comes in you can be like

01:37:22   Oh

01:37:22   They just read my message and immediately reply if that makes you feel better when in reality

01:37:26   They might have read your message two hours ago and known that they can't deal with this right now because they're in the middle of

01:37:31   Making dinner or whatever and they'll deal with it later. So that is the beauty that is the social pact of

01:37:36   asynchronous messaging is that

01:37:39   You don't have to respond as soon as you get a message

01:37:41   You shouldn't expect it from other people and if we all turn off red receipts

01:37:45   If you're the type person who wants to believe that people respond as soon as they read your message

01:37:49   You can believe that and everything will be fine as soon as one person turns on red receipts

01:37:54   Then it's all breaks the whole system breaks down and now our own habits are actually revealed and everyone just feels bad

01:37:59   Now you don't have

01:38:04   Tina set to be on and everyone else off because that is something you can do no off for everybody

01:38:09   It's sorry really new do need to reach somebody if I need to reach my wife

01:38:13   I can call her on the phone like I find it if I need synchronous messaging that is available to me

01:38:18   I feel perfectly comfortable doing that like but that's not that's not the deal with text messages. No red receipts

01:38:25   Sorry, dad Marco. Yeah, I'm totally with you on that. I think that it's it breaks the

01:38:32   Like the expectation like, you know as John said like it's it's almost like the social construct and like it's like how you expect these

01:38:40   communication mechanisms to respond I don't expect if if I get a message on my phone and

01:38:45   I look at it now or I look at it later

01:38:48   I

01:38:48   Don't expect there to be a difference of something happening as a result of me having looked at it now in a certain way or not

01:38:54   like if I like like people talk about like, you know, if you you can like

01:38:57   Force-touch preview a message to not set send the red receipt or there's always a different thing

01:39:02   Just just disable them because to me like you sent me that message

01:39:07   It is none of your business when I've read it or even what that means

01:39:10   Like like what does it mean that I've read it? Does it mean that my phone displayed it fully?

01:39:14   Does it mean I've actually seen it doesn't mean I'm actually going to respond to it. Who knows right you sent the message

01:39:18   At some point I can respond it is none of your business when I do that or if I've seen it or anything

01:39:23   Like same reason like on emails. I disable the you know, loading third-party images by default

01:39:28   Well, because that shouldn't be enabled by default

01:39:31   I feel like because that enables the same kind of thing and it enables through various like douchey email apps

01:39:35   It enables people to have red pixels on their emails to you and the same thing. I think that's I think that's grossly inappropriate

01:39:41   I know like, you know certain employers set this up and require this for their employees and I think that's gross

01:39:47   It's like like I don't I don't look at my wife's phone because that's I consider that like an invasion of privacy

01:39:54   It's like that's like her brain then that would feel weird. Like I don't I don't poke around

01:39:59   I don't look at her messages like that would feel gross and like a like a weird overreach

01:40:03   I think red receipts are that same level of thing. It's that same level of like that's too much. That's too far

01:40:10   that's too much like surveillance of my behavior and

01:40:13   You the sender of this message don't deserve that information from me

01:40:18   Like that's that's creepy and and you don't need this information and you shouldn't want it and you shouldn't get it

01:40:23   I don't make you feel better not to have it because then you can choose to believe whatever you want to choose to believe about

01:40:28   Marco's interaction with your text message and I think most people will want to choose to believe he must not have seen it until the

01:40:34   Moment before he replied you can happily believe that and Marco will allow you to continue to have that fiction if it makes you feel

01:40:39   better

01:40:40   Exactly. I don't know. I have Mon. I think I've always had him on

01:40:43   I can't recall that ever having knowingly been a problem, but you do make you both make a very compelling argument

01:40:49   So you're a giver Casey. That's that's me. I'm a giver

01:40:51   Alright, I think that might do it

01:40:55   Thanks to our sponsors this week Squarespace Express VPN and Linode and we will talk to you next week

01:41:00   Now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental

01:41:10   was accidental

01:41:13   John

01:41:16   Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental

01:41:21   was accidental

01:41:24   And you can find the show notes at ATP dot FM

01:41:29   And if you're into Twitter

01:41:32   You can follow them at

01:41:35   Cas ey l is s so that's Casey lists. Ma RC. Oh

01:41:41   ARM

01:41:43   and T Marco are men si are

01:41:47   AC

01:41:49   USAC

01:41:50   recuse

01:41:52   Accidental

01:41:54   So we didn't talk about during follow-up

01:42:07   The legal question I had from last week and my story about my car getting bumped and what happened with that

01:42:13   The car is back. It's been repaired. It looks great. I am very thankful for that. I got a

01:42:20   lot of flack on Twitter and a little bit over email about the way I had handled the situation and what I had talked about on

01:42:26   the podcast and

01:42:28   What I thought I said on the podcast was cheese

01:42:32   It seems weird to me that this person didn't get some sort of citation or infraction for

01:42:38   Impacting their automobile into my automobile which seems to me to be something that really should not happen

01:42:45   What was it? You said on neutral John car shouldn't bump something like that

01:42:49   It's touch don't let them touch, right? I

01:42:52   Got a lot of flack for this and I wanted to very quickly address the flack that I received and then talk about the actual question

01:43:00   But to start with the flack, I think even though almost everyone who said something said it extraordinarily obnoxiously

01:43:07   So, thank you everyone

01:43:09   I do think that there was actually some amount of truth to what was being said which is you know

01:43:14   a white guy calling the cops for something that is admittedly minor is kind of the definition of privilege and

01:43:19   I

01:43:20   Don't think I had appropriately recognized that at the time in which we spoke last week and and I am sorry for that

01:43:26   I really am I think I should have been more self-aware than the way I was than the way I acted last week

01:43:31   That being said the reason I called the police was because what I didn't mention on the show last week

01:43:36   And I'd love to blame this on Marco having had too heavy a hand with the editing knife, but it wasn't him at all

01:43:40   I just didn't bring it up this time on to do this time on two separate occasions in my past

01:43:46   I have had minor bumps or something like something roughly equivalent to what happened and at the time of the issue

01:43:53   The other person said this was my fault

01:43:56   Here's my insurance blah blah blah and I did not call the cops and I thought everything was copacetic or everyone agrees

01:44:01   We're all happy

01:44:02   We're gonna go our separate ways and we will handle this like adults and in both of those occasions

01:44:08   The other person said oh no, that wasn't me or oh no

01:44:11   I didn't do anything wrong and fought us on it and I can give you the whole details, but it's ultimately irrelevant

01:44:18   The point is we got burned twice

01:44:20   where we tried to just handle it like adults and it didn't get handled and we ended up either footing the bill or

01:44:27   Our insurance had to deal with it because their insurance wouldn't pay because their person said they didn't do it blah blah blah

01:44:32   So the reason that I called the cops in the first place was because I will never make that mistake again

01:44:39   Now some people said you should never do that over a bumper

01:44:42   Hey, that's fine. If you are able to roll with it like that, that's fine

01:44:46   And I don't mean this to be a jerk if your car doesn't matter to you that much or if your paint doesn't have to be

01:44:51   Pristine, that's awesome. I kind of wish I was like that but that's not me. I want my car to look pristine

01:44:56   I'm proud of my car looking pristine. I wash it as often as I can because I wanted to look pristine

01:45:00   That's the way I am. So that's why I called the cops. I do think it was a bit unreasonable

01:45:06   that

01:45:08   It's I don't feel like I was seeking a citation

01:45:11   But it is unreasonable if I was and if I came across that way then that's my fault and I'm sorry

01:45:15   now to answer the actual question

01:45:17   I

01:45:19   I had a couple different thoughts. First of all what I didn't

01:45:22   reasonably appreciate last week

01:45:25   Which I did since think about and do appreciate now is that there is some amount of

01:45:29   Subjective application of law and I don't remember if somebody said this to me or if I had an epiphany maybe an apostrophe

01:45:35   That's reference. But anyway, I had a epiphany that you know, if I get a speeding ticket

01:45:40   I will want that officer to be as lenient as they possibly can be and give me

01:45:46   As low of a speeding ticket as they possibly can and if that's okay

01:45:50   Then it should be okay for this person who ran into me to also get let off and I don't think I appropriately

01:45:55   Appreciated that last week, but to answer the question

01:45:58   Chris who is a or either current or former law enforcement officer from Oklahoma

01:46:04   Wrote wrote in and said when I go to collisions that I know I won't work for example private property collisions with no injuries

01:46:09   I'll use my body camera and still get statements from both parties

01:46:12   I then explained that I won't be working the collision

01:46:14   But their statements will be recorded if there's any dispute the insurance companies can then subpoena my body cam for footage if needed

01:46:19   For potential potential laws that are broken you guys started to hit right on or started to hit on the right things

01:46:26   There's of course falling too closely or failure to devote a full time and attention for example looking into cell phone

01:46:31   But now if we have something like oh my foot slipped off the brake or oh the light turned green

01:46:36   I thought the car in front of me was going but they didn't

01:46:38   They have an ordinance in Chris's city

01:46:40   Which is called careless driving and it's kind of a catch-all that basically just states you drove in a way that caused damage to someone

01:46:45   Else's car, and I thought that was a pretty succinct and interesting

01:46:49   Answer to our question of how could they have been cited whether or not it was necessary

01:46:54   How could it have happened and there's your answer to touch on a few more aspects of this? I think you

01:47:01   your thing about

01:47:03   Getting into a situation and not involving the authorities and getting burned on a later because then it's just your word against theirs

01:47:08   There's no sort of third party, and there's you know no one taking statements in the moment and so on and so forth

01:47:12   I think that's advice that is

01:47:15   Handed out often

01:47:18   Some some are all of us may have gotten that advice from parents or other adults in our life saying if you ever do get

01:47:24   Into an accident even though it seems like you and the other person are in agreement about what happened

01:47:29   It's a good idea to

01:47:31   Call the police to report it and get a statement in the moment

01:47:35   And get witnesses and all sorts of other things because if you don't this bad thing could happen to you

01:47:40   I think of that actual advice is another example of what you're getting at before with privilege if you are

01:47:46   At the top of the food chain in terms of privilege in this country of course

01:47:52   It's natural for you to call in the authorities because it's all upside

01:47:55   Nothing bad is gonna happen to me, and they are gonna come in and they're gonna protect my rights

01:48:00   And they're going to protect me. That's the expectation by calling in the authorities

01:48:04   I'm calling them to come and protect me the thought doesn't enter your head that I'm going to call the authorities

01:48:09   I'm gonna be dead in an hour and a half that doesn't enter your mind

01:48:13   If this is the type of advice you're getting and similarly if your parents are giving you this advice

01:48:17   That the first thing you should always do in any situation like this is called the authorities chances

01:48:21   Are you're probably white and if you're not your parents might be giving your parents might be giving you very?

01:48:25   different advice

01:48:27   And that's something that we tend not to think about and that not doesn't necessarily mean it's bad advice because cases examples in accidents

01:48:34   It is a good idea to not just trust the other person to

01:48:37   Say exactly the same thing as it is a good idea to sort of get you know down

01:48:42   what happened like it's a it's a difficult situation because

01:48:45   We should mean we would like to live in a world in a society where?

01:48:50   It was a level playing field right

01:48:53   So I'm honestly I've been in a lot of these situations. I was discussing this with my wife. I've been in minor you know

01:49:00   Someone bumps into my car when I'm parked or something and I see it happen

01:49:04   you know or like we're stopped at a stoplight and someone touches my bumper or something like that and

01:49:09   I'm sometimes that situation

01:49:12   I won't even get out of the car because I'm right driving an old beater

01:49:16   And it's already got dents all over the bumper

01:49:18   And it was like the world's smallest bump, and I just give him a dirty look and you know

01:49:23   We

01:49:26   Exactly, and we just all go on our way because like you just can't even deal with it right

01:49:30   But in other situations if there's actual car damage

01:49:33   It is actually important to get things under control and you do have to take an assessment

01:49:36   I think this is one of the other things that you were getting yelled at Casey is like the idea that

01:49:39   Another another aspect of your potential privilege. I don't think people just made this assumption because they made this assumption, but potentially it's like oh

01:49:47   Casey is you know comfortable in his life and is able to absorb the cost of his bumper whereas the poor defenseless person that

01:49:54   Hit them obviously is on their last penny and can't afford anything right and so how dare you?

01:50:00   Extract money for it for this thing in any sort of exchange or whatever that may be true

01:50:04   It may be this person was you know this was there on their last penny

01:50:08   And they're driving to a job interview that they need to keep their rent or as they're all gonna die right like this

01:50:13   Oh, that could be true right and that is it is a reasonable thing to take into account when deciding

01:50:19   How you were going to handle a situation like this in an accident?

01:50:22   But case you didn't say anything about whether this person was driving a Bentley or not for all you know they were driving their parents

01:50:29   Lamborghini SUV does that change your opinion about whether they should buy the $500 like people sense of justice

01:50:35   right or wrong depends a lot on

01:50:39   like

01:50:41   the relative

01:50:42   power and financial positions of the people involved in the minor fender bender, so I

01:50:47   Think and again Casey didn't say anything

01:50:50   He just said this person was young now just being saying you're young you say well obviously young people have less money than older people

01:50:55   That's true, too, so that may have been the situation, and I think it is good to take that into account

01:50:59   I just think there's not without all the details

01:51:02   It's very difficult to say what the quote unquote right thing to do is and another point related that a lot of people brought up

01:51:07   is

01:51:08   Sometimes you just do a nice thing by just eating it and Casey willingly or not did that in these two other times that he

01:51:14   Talked about where he just ended up eating it and someone else got something nicer, and he didn't particularly do it

01:51:19   Willingly, but sometimes like I kind of feel like that's sort of

01:51:23   What you know can happen if like in this situation where I don't even get into my car, but on the other hand

01:51:30   It's like I'm also saving myself the hassle of dealing with it at all and just be willing to say in that moment

01:51:35   My bumper is already destroyed. I know this didn't make it any worse

01:51:39   I'm just gonna like it's actually easier for everybody including me involved to not worry about it

01:51:45   But on the other hand like if it's a serious accident

01:51:49   Or it's a brand new car or someone bumps into the bumper of my Ferrari someday

01:51:53   I'm probably gonna get out of the car

01:51:55   And I will probably exercise my privilege and get to get the police involved as long as I feel like by doing that

01:52:02   I am NOT causing anyone else putting anyone else in danger as in it's another rich white dude to bump me in the bumper

01:52:09   I think that's the the correct level playing field. They bump me with their Ferrari

01:52:13   I feel like that's that is a reasonable thing to do and if your main concern is not getting screwed over by someone changing their story and

01:52:21   Everything seems to be you know on the level

01:52:24   With respect to putting people in danger

01:52:27   Then I think that is also a reasonable thing to do

01:52:30   I don't know if Casey wants to talk about details of what kind of car hit them or how old the person was or

01:52:35   You know anything else about them that might change your opinion of whether he should or shouldn't have called the police

01:52:40   But the bottom line is that he didn't seem to work out. Okay, so I think you know he probably

01:52:45   Didn't act in an unreasonable manner.

01:52:48   I appreciate it. No, I think I did say last episode. It was a

01:52:52   reasonably modern Jeep Compass. I don't know if that made the final edit, but

01:52:56   I don't know. I would say it was

01:52:59   Five maybe ten years old and it seemed to be in good repair

01:53:03   You know it wasn't like the bumper was falling off or anything like that

01:53:05   I'll also say that if the if the impact resulted in just like a scratch or

01:53:11   Something or like a little bit of paint that maybe I could have gotten out with like compound or something

01:53:16   I would have just driven off and called it a day, but there was a clear issue with the car now

01:53:21   Maybe to you listener the issue was not enough to get your junk in a wad over

01:53:25   But it was enough to get my junk in a wad and so that's why I acted the way I did

01:53:29   But I got enough very angry people yelling at me on Twitter and via email

01:53:34   That I wanted to just quickly address it and since we haven't gone long enough talking about everything under the Sun

01:53:40   Let's talk about the abomination that is the Cybertruck because oh

01:53:43   It's not that bad. It's bad. You're getting clouded by your fanboyism. It's so bad. I mean I guess I mean part of my

01:53:51   Yeah, it's hard for me to

01:53:55   Accurately and usefully judge the Cybertruck because I am NOT a truck person like I am a Tesla person

01:54:01   but I am NOT a truck person and

01:54:04   truck people are

01:54:06   such their own thing that I feel

01:54:09   totally unqualified to talk about it all I can say is it looks pretty cool and

01:54:15   Tesla is doing their usual things of like

01:54:18   Making a mostly pretty cool vehicle with a few things that are incredibly over engineered about it

01:54:25   That will probably cause production delays and problems like they always do

01:54:28   But but it does look pretty cool. I like that they didn't just do something

01:54:34   really pedestrian

01:54:36   Whether it proves useful or not. That's that's up to people who know more about trucks than I do, but I think it looks

01:54:44   Really weird but in kind of a good way it like sometimes you need that in

01:54:49   industries that are kind of stodgy and

01:54:52   The pickup truck industry has been stuck for quite a while in making things that look pretty much the same all the time

01:54:59   And there are good reasons for some of those decisions, but not for all of them

01:55:03   and so this is it looks pretty cool and

01:55:05   You know what? You got to give Tesla credit

01:55:08   They announce a bunch of really weird stuff and stuff that seems really out there and really ambitious

01:55:15   They actually do most of it. They actually end up shipping most of the things they announce and

01:55:21   It might take longer and it might you know have some problems at first but like they do

01:55:26   usually ship the things they announce like this and so I gotta give them credit like

01:55:31   They're doing more crazy stuff and it seems to be working and no one else is doing the stuff they're doing. So cool. I

01:55:38   Quit the show. I quit the show. I'm not saying I'm buying one or you should but oh no, it's so no

01:55:45   Just no Marco. I think the only thing I agree with and what you just said was that it is cool that they're doing something different

01:55:51   That yeah, okay

01:55:52   Hey, you know what since since we already spent all of my money and your money in this show

01:55:56   Maybe John can buy the Cybertruck John John. It's your time to shine

01:55:59   No, I can I feel like if Microsoft did the computing equivalent of this announcement?

01:56:06   I didn't even watch the presentation because I for everyone I know

01:56:08   Even the Tesla fan said it was a disaster. So I didn't feel like I needed to but I didn't watch the presentation either

01:56:14   I know the whole like, you know window breaking thing, right if Microsoft did whatever the computing equivalent is of this announcement

01:56:20   You and me and John would be beating the snot

01:56:24   But probably because it's Elon and because it's Tesla. Oh, everything's okay. Don't worry

01:56:30   I think this thing is ugly from what little I know of trucks and how they work and what's

01:56:34   Important and useful to them. It doesn't strike me as a particularly good pickup truck

01:56:38   Yes, it's very strong. But other than that like that's not it's not a very good utility vehicle. I it it no

01:56:45   It just it looks stupid. It doesn't have side mirrors doesn't have windshield wipers right now

01:56:49   It's a friggin triangle like everything about this almost

01:56:52   Offends me which makes me wonder if this is old man shouting at cloud

01:56:56   so I don't know but I this just I feel like

01:57:00   There's so much that I can applaud about what Tesla's done even in the cars that I have issues with like I really dislike the model

01:57:08   3's

01:57:10   Single screen in the center thing. I really wish it had an instrument cluster for example, but I can get behind

01:57:17   That that is something different and isn't necessarily just for differences sake whereas this just seems like

01:57:24   Nobody said no to Elon and it just doesn't seem useful to me. I haven't heard connected

01:57:31   So, I don't know if they had a chance to talk about it

01:57:32   but I I have spoken to Stephen Hackett a little bit privately or we have spoken to him privately and

01:57:37   He from what I gathered did not seem overly impressed with it either. I don't know John. What's your thoughts?

01:57:42   This product I feel like might

01:57:46   See

01:57:48   It's hard to think of it as like is this a good car

01:57:51   Is this a good product for Tesla to make?

01:57:53   Who is this going to satisfy the thing about trucks in general in the United States is?

01:57:57   Most of them are not used as trucks just like most SUVs are not taken off-road. Most trucks are not used as trucks

01:58:02   and that's why you get all these these trucks that you know, if you start looking at them and seeing how much they cost and

01:58:09   What they have and they have four doors in them and they have these weird interiors and they have these like

01:58:13   Polished chrome bed liners. I'm just making things up. But like they're they're very fancy trucks. They're mostly not used as trucks

01:58:19   So whatever like who am I to say that if someone wants a big snarling giant ridiculous pickup truck that they never use as a truck

01:58:25   Except for like one or two times every few years to like move someone's couch fine. Let them have it, right?

01:58:31   That is actually I think the biggest market for trucks in the United States the Cybertruck it may actually

01:58:39   fill a

01:58:42   Need in that market for a

01:58:45   Pickup truck that's not used as a truck that looks different than all the other pickup trucks not used as trucks

01:58:50   It has to look it has to fulfill the requirements of that category. It has to be

01:58:55   beefy and tough-looking and actually tough and

01:58:59   Intimidating and deadly to pedestrians in a terrifying way. That should be illegal. I

01:59:06   Think it might hit all of those markers even the styling like it's part of it

01:59:12   You know the dramatically different styling than other ticket pickup trucks that might be good for it as a product

01:59:18   yes, even if it's ugly because

01:59:20   It's it stands out, right?

01:59:23   the styling itself

01:59:25   Like I give them certainly give them points for doing something that's different than all the other pickup trucks. I

01:59:31   subtract points for essentially instead of coming up with a new styling and

01:59:36   Just taking the styling from the it's like retro future. It's like straight out of the 80s

01:59:41   You can put this thing on a video game box from the 80s or in a movie from the 80s

01:59:46   It's like yeah, no, that's that like it's not it's not even an homage to that styling

01:59:50   It is literally that styling so it's not particularly original because I lived through the 80s and it's like yeah

01:59:56   No, that's the thing but there but they're making it a real car right so fine, right?

02:00:01   I think it's pretty ugly and ungainly, but I I'm I understand the vibe

02:00:07   They're going for and I give them full points for making a weird car

02:00:10   All that said I think it's a terrible truck for people who want trucks like it is not a successful like they haven't

02:00:19   Unlike for example the model S is a great thing to compare it for the model S

02:00:23   Like is so practical in terms of like a car that has four doors that stand shape

02:00:29   How can we make this the most useful?

02:00:31   Part that's four doors. It's a shape because it's electric we can do all sorts of things other four doors car

02:00:37   So it's big on the inside has big trunks. It has a hatchback. It has the seats in the back

02:00:41   It's like it does everything that it can to be

02:00:44   Useful as a sedan

02:00:47   This truck does not do everything it can to be useful as a truck at all. Like the everything about it is

02:00:53   It's the Johnny Ives cool, you know, the bad Johnny Ives cool like

02:00:58   Form over function, right?

02:01:00   It looks cool to have a giant long slanting windshield

02:01:02   But that's not great for visibility with those a pill is stretching out for a mile

02:01:06   It's certainly probably not great for water clearance off the windshield and whatever they're gonna have to do to put a wiper in that thing

02:01:12   The C pillars it's not good for the bed to have those weird slanty things

02:01:16   It's terrible for your visibility

02:01:18   Like one of the good things you can have a pickup truck is that the cab pokes out above a flat bed and you got a

02:01:22   Good all-around visibility not on the Cybertruck. You got these little tank like slits

02:01:25   It is not and the bed how big is the bed compared to the rest of the truck?

02:01:30   how low does the bed because the battery is under there and all these other things like

02:01:33   How good is electric for towing heavy things like this?

02:01:37   First of all, this thing doesn't have the towing capacity of like a giant heavy-duty like Ford f350 or something

02:01:42   It's not even in that category and even in the f-150 category

02:01:45   It remains to be seen how wise it is and how much your rain gets range gets destroyed if you're at maximum towing capacity

02:01:51   because unlike one of those big trucks, you can't just add more gallons to your gas tank and

02:01:55   Get more range for you know, incredibly cheaply if you want more range another thing yet

02:02:00   I'm more heavy batteries and it cuts into it. So I don't think this is a good truck

02:02:04   I said before it doesn't matter that it's probably not a good truck

02:02:07   But all I'm saying is this thing is not like a it's not a good design design is how it works

02:02:12   This does not work

02:02:13   Well as a truck if how it works is being attractive to non truck buyers

02:02:18   Then it's probably a good design like it all depends on what your works is like and I think it is

02:02:24   Reasonable to say what works for the segment is not to be a good pickup truck. There's plenty of good pickup trucks

02:02:30   We're not making a good pickup truck

02:02:31   what works in this segment is to be the most appealing thing to someone with $65,000 who wants a big macho truck and

02:02:38   In that case, maybe this design does quote-unquote work

02:02:41   I still think it's a bad car because having bad visibility out of your car

02:02:44   It's not an advantage like no matter what kind of car you make

02:02:48   There's no car where you're like and I want the visibility to be as bad as possible

02:02:51   Sometimes it is a side effect like in lots of exotic cars

02:02:55   The visibility is terrible

02:02:56   But I think good supercar designs like the ones from McLaren or like the NSX in particular

02:03:01   Focus on outward visibility and say well, I know it's a mid-engine car and you're gonna have a tough view at the rear

02:03:07   Because the engine is back there. But what can we do? Can we can we make kind of a glass bubble cockpit?

02:03:11   Can we put more visibility in can we?

02:03:13   Pull make it so that the a pillars aren't blocking half of your field of view just for us will be outside design like at

02:03:19   At least try and the cyber trucks like nope. All we care about is this thing looks like a matchbox car

02:03:23   or a kid's notebook for middle school and

02:03:25   Usability be damned. So but you know, I think it is an incredibly

02:03:31   Impractical unsuccessful truck, but I also think that probably doesn't matter because that's not the market

02:03:39   They're going for I still have disdain for the product though kind of like, you know, like

02:03:43   In a way that I don't have for people who buy fancy like a Ford 150s like those are still okay trucks

02:03:50   And maybe you're over optioning it and getting leather seats and it's silly and it's all polished and you ever gonna but at least it's still

02:03:56   It is still a competent practical truck. This is this is not that this is if you see someone with this

02:04:02   You know, they didn't buy it because they're just constantly hauling things back and forth

02:04:06   That's not why they bought the cyber truck

02:04:08   And if they did try to buy it for that purpose, they're gonna be very sad and they're gonna break their truck

02:04:12   You know, I take your point about the cyber truck maybe not being for truck people

02:04:18   But I have to slightly disagree with you. I I

02:04:21   think that most pickup owners do use their pickups as

02:04:25   pickups

02:04:27   I think they do it more often than you think I do ultimately agree with you though that in my world

02:04:33   For the amount of times that I would want to pick up. I think that they're silly and wasteful, but that's me

02:04:38   I for a lot of people that's they couldn't use any other car nearly as easily like take Steven

02:04:45   For example, he puts his bike or bikes in the bed of his pickup a couple times a week

02:04:50   If not more and yes, you could do that in the back of Aaron's monstrosity

02:04:53   You could even probably put a rack on the back of your accord John

02:04:57   But it is easiest to do that in a pickup and I think that

02:05:00   Unlike SUV drivers like Aaron's never gonna take her Volvo off a road

02:05:04   But I do think that pickups do get used more often than SUVs for their allegedly intended purpose that being said

02:05:11   I do think that this is a terrible pickup truck and just an just a silly silly car

02:05:16   Just putting something in the bed is like saying because you put something in your trunk use your car as a pickup, right?

02:05:21   Yes, you you will put things in the bed. There's no place else to put thing

02:05:23   Although people do buy those little you know container. He's one of the hell those things called

02:05:30   You know, yeah and you'll put bikes that back there or whatever that that's all well and good but like

02:05:35   That you know

02:05:37   You're not concerned about the towing capacity or like how much you can hold 2,500 pounds in the bed if you're putting a 98 pound

02:05:45   bicycle back there

02:05:45   Like you could put a bike rack on the back of your golf and have the same flexibility

02:05:48   Like that's not just because you put something in the bed doesn't mean you're using it as a truck

02:05:52   I think my bar is a little bit higher there as in

02:05:55   You are a painting contractor and you you bring your supplies to and from the job site every day with your pickup truck or landscaping

02:06:02   or whatever like you actually use it as a pickup truck where you a

02:06:04   Volkswagen Golf with a bike rack cannot do that. I

02:06:07   Hear you. I don't know. It's just one way or another. I really feel like

02:06:12   the Tesla people

02:06:15   Including potentially even Marco from the sounds of it are grading this real heavily on a curve and I mean, that's fine

02:06:20   whatever but I mean

02:06:21   I feel like that's like I was angry that it's a bad truck

02:06:25   but honestly like if your goal is to sell to Tesla fans a

02:06:28   Futuristic looking vehicle that can also has that is truckier than any other Tesla's that no one's gonna really use as a truck

02:06:34   Then this is maybe a successful viable product

02:06:39   It just you know about like I feel like you can do all of that

02:06:42   You can make a daring cool looking thing with

02:06:44   Innovative styling that isn't particularly a good truck and also like I think that thing the thing spelling is likes it

02:06:50   It's visibility because I hate cars with bad visibility for styling purposes because this is you know

02:06:55   You're trying to sell more than a thousand of these a year

02:06:58   So don't like I'm willing to to accept terrible visibility on your exotic hypercar that you're not gonna make more than

02:07:04   500 of not willing to accept it on a pickup truck and then the the giant C pillars that that you know

02:07:11   Make the bed sides not flat and just sort of compromise the entire utility of a pickup truck of like a flat bed

02:07:18   but also flat sides because if you're gonna try to put anything in there having to deal with those angles and be not being able to

02:07:23   Get at things from the side like these are common activities here pickup trucks. Like it just

02:07:27   there's kind of a reason that the

02:07:30   Subaru Brat and the the original Honda Ridgeline like that whole, you know, flying buttress C pillar thing. It's not it's not practical pickup trucks, so

02:07:39   It almost would have been better, you know all the memes they're putting out if they just you know

02:07:43   If they just put out the halo warthog and said look this is what you want. Like it's not practical. It's cool-looking

02:07:48   It's futuristic. It looks like a big tonka toy matchbox car. It's the halo warthog

02:07:53   The Tesla halo warthog that's and I think it's fine to have that product for people who want that type of thing

02:08:00   I just hope they don't drive it on my roads because again, they're gonna kill more pedestrians with it or whatever but

02:08:04   Yeah, it's it's not for me. It may be for a bunch of Tesla fires, but it's a bad truck

02:08:11   And it's a bad name because what's cyber about it really that's not their naming scheme Tesla model this Tesla model that cyber

02:08:17   Cyber, I mean, I guess it fits with the 80s styling

02:08:20   cyber, come on

02:08:23   (loud thud)