ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► - With the hyphen? - Modern hyphen day.

00:00:02 ◼   ► - Yes. - Don't put a hyphen in dialup,

00:00:04 ◼   ► though, I don't think, let's check that.

00:00:06 ◼   ► - No, 'cause modern day is a modifier of dialup.

00:00:08 ◼   ► - I know, but I mean like,

00:00:09 ◼   ► dialup I think might be a hyphenated word.

00:00:11 ◼   ► - Oh.

00:00:12 ◼   ► - I gotta look. - I didn't think about that.

00:00:14 ◼   ► - See, Wikipedia has it with the hyphen.

00:00:16 ◼   ► - We can just choose not to, you know,

00:00:19 ◼   ► that is something we could do.

00:00:20 ◼   ► - I know, I'm just making sure,

00:00:21 ◼   ► I'm just making sure without is even an option.

00:00:23 ◼   ► - The Apple dictionary only has it in the hyphenated form.

00:00:26 ◼   ► - I know, I'm just, I'm looking.

00:00:28 ◼   ► That's usually my reference is the dictionary app.

00:00:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think you have to have a hyphen.

00:00:34 ◼   ► I think without the hyphen is not a thing.

00:00:36 ◼   ► - Oh, this is hyphens run wild.

00:00:38 ◼   ► The hyphens do not own you, gentlemen.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Just choose not to.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Well, it's going in without the hyphen.

00:00:43 ◼   ► - No, you can't just make up your own words.

00:00:45 ◼   ► - Modern hyphen day space dialup.

00:00:48 ◼   ► - No, that, dialup is apparently not a word.

00:00:51 ◼   ► If you don't put the hyphen there,

00:00:53 ◼   ► the pens are gonna all email us and say,

00:00:55 ◼   ► "You know, 'dulup' is not a word."

00:00:57 ◼   ► I really don't think anyone is going to email us.

00:00:59 ◼   ► - Oh, are you kidding?

00:01:01 ◼   ► - Challenge accepted.

00:01:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think we could get away with that one

00:01:04 ◼   ► without a single email, actually.

00:01:05 ◼   ► I think I'm on Casey's side of this bet.

00:01:07 ◼   ► I don't think we would hear about it from anybody.

00:01:09 ◼   ► - Does Chris Pepper listen to this podcast?

00:01:11 ◼   ► - Ultimately, Jon is gonna go in

00:01:14 ◼   ► and change it out from under us anyway,

00:01:15 ◼   ► so I wouldn't worry about it.

00:01:16 ◼   ► - Just put the hyphen, just be correct.

00:01:17 ◼   ► Why would we intentionally not be correct?

00:01:19 ◼   ► What are you making this stand about?

00:01:20 ◼   ► What are you proving?

00:01:22 ◼   ► - I'm proving that I am better than a need

00:01:26 ◼   ► to make the dialogue gods, the hyphen gods, happy.

00:01:29 ◼   ► - What makes you better?

00:01:31 ◼   ► There's no such thing as hyphen gods,

00:01:33 ◼   ► so what are you trying to say?

00:01:33 ◼   ► - Because I am choosing, I am making a creative choice.

00:01:36 ◼   ► I am making a creative choice to not use the hyphen.

00:01:39 ◼   ► - What are you expressing with that creative choice?

00:01:41 ◼   ► - That I think it's, hyphens, too many hyphens,

00:01:43 ◼   ► if we put the hyphens--

00:01:44 ◼   ► - You think there are too many hyphens.

00:01:45 ◼   ► That's what you're expressing.

00:01:46 ◼   ► This is the hill you're gonna die on.

00:01:48 ◼   ► - I mean, I would argue that it,

00:01:49 ◼   ► I think if email lost its hyphen,

00:01:51 ◼   ► which it did like forever ago,

00:01:53 ◼   ► I would classify this as similar.

00:01:56 ◼   ► - I feel like dial-up lived and died

00:01:58 ◼   ► without ever losing its hyphen.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Like it's not gonna lose its hyphen now,

00:02:02 ◼   ► 'cause who the hell ever talks about dial-up?

00:02:03 ◼   ► Like it is a fossil.

00:02:05 ◼   ► - We just did.

00:02:06 ◼   ► - I think you should put the hyphen.

00:02:08 ◼   ► - We are fossils.

00:02:09 ◼   ► - I would like to lodge an official complaint

00:02:15 ◼   ► to the group, please.

00:02:17 ◼   ► I received an unsolicited package in the mail today,

00:02:19 ◼   ► and Marco, you seem to have sent me the incorrect M6.

00:02:24 ◼   ► You have sent me but a mere model

00:02:26 ◼   ► as opposed to an actual M6.

00:02:29 ◼   ► So I would like to officially file a complaint

00:02:31 ◼   ► with the board that you have sent to the incorrect sized M6.

00:02:35 ◼   ► I literally can put it in my pocket,

00:02:37 ◼   ► which means it is considerably too small.

00:02:39 ◼   ► I mean, what is this, an M6 for ants?

00:02:41 ◼   ► - It's last year's model.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Why you gotta send that back?

00:02:43 ◼   ► Say, no, I'm sorry, the six isn't a thing anymore.

00:02:46 ◼   ► It's the eight now.

00:02:47 ◼   ► - So all kidding aside, Marco sent me a BMW hat,

00:02:50 ◼   ► which I already have one just like it,

00:02:52 ◼   ► as did you, if I'm not mistaken,

00:02:53 ◼   ► 'cause I believe I got it from driving school.

00:02:55 ◼   ► You sent me a mug and you sent me a model M6.

00:02:58 ◼   ► I believe that was it.

00:03:00 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:03:01 ◼   ► - Which is very kind of you to move your shit

00:03:03 ◼   ► from your house to my house.

00:03:04 ◼   ► Now I have to deal with it.

00:03:06 ◼   ► But be that as it may, when you bought the i3,

00:03:09 ◼   ► they just threw random swag at you?

00:03:11 ◼   ► - Yes, like when, so--

00:03:13 ◼   ► - Cool.

00:03:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, for Tiff's recent i3 release,

00:03:15 ◼   ► they gave us like this bag on the way out

00:03:18 ◼   ► of just a whole bunch of random BMW stuff.

00:03:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's all last year's BMW stuff.

00:03:22 ◼   ► That's why they're getting rid of it.

00:03:23 ◼   ► - Right.

00:03:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:03:25 ◼   ► And we thought, well, we don't really need any of this stuff.

00:03:27 ◼   ► But it would be funny to just mail it all to Casey.

00:03:30 ◼   ► So that's what we did.

00:03:31 ◼   ► - Thank you so much.

00:03:32 ◼   ► - You know how much he loves BMWs now.

00:03:33 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:03:34 ◼   ► - Yes, exactly.

00:03:35 ◼   ► - Speaking of your poor car,

00:03:36 ◼   ► I just saw something flipping through a magazine today.

00:03:38 ◼   ► - Wait, can we be more specific?

00:03:39 ◼   ► Whose poor car are we speaking of?

00:03:41 ◼   ► - Casey's poor car.

00:03:42 ◼   ► I saw something flipping through a magazine today

00:03:44 ◼   ► that seemed to indicate to me

00:03:46 ◼   ► that the new Golf R will only come with an automatic.

00:03:51 ◼   ► - Oh, no.

00:03:52 ◼   ► I believe it's pronounced Golf R.

00:03:53 ◼   ► - That's what I saw in a chart.

00:03:55 ◼   ► I don't think it's set in stone yet,

00:03:58 ◼   ► but that seemed to be the indication of this chart.

00:04:00 ◼   ► The other thing I learned is that the default transmission

00:04:04 ◼   ► for the Golf in Europe is a stick,

00:04:07 ◼   ► still, for the new generation one.

00:04:09 ◼   ► That's what you get if you don't select any options.

00:04:11 ◼   ► - Well, and that's the thing is, here in America,

00:04:13 ◼   ► if I were, actually, I'd be very curious to hear you guys,

00:04:16 ◼   ► what you would say about this.

00:04:17 ◼   ► But my question is, what is going to be the last car

00:04:22 ◼   ► to get rid of the stick?

00:04:23 ◼   ► And to me, I know, John, you're gonna say the Civic,

00:04:26 ◼   ► but I think if I were to wager a guess,

00:04:29 ◼   ► I would say it'll be either the GTI

00:04:32 ◼   ► or the Jeep Wrangler, of all things, and I really mean that.

00:04:36 ◼   ► John, I'm assuming you're gonna say the Civic.

00:04:38 ◼   ► - No, I'm not gonna say the Civic.

00:04:39 ◼   ► I think it's going to be some weird, expensive,

00:04:44 ◼   ► not exotic car, but to give an example,

00:04:47 ◼   ► I forget which car it was, some car from some company,

00:04:49 ◼   ► it might be Aston Martin, it might be,

00:04:51 ◼   ► one of those type of brands is introducing a new model

00:04:55 ◼   ► that comes with a stick, like a new trim level

00:04:57 ◼   ► of an existing model where they just keep making

00:04:58 ◼   ► different revisions of it, and one of the revisions is like,

00:05:00 ◼   ► and this one comes with a stick,

00:05:01 ◼   ► and it's just totally out of left field,

00:05:03 ◼   ► and it's only there to satisfy a few weird people.

00:05:06 ◼   ► It's not even presented as a performance thing.

00:05:08 ◼   ► Like, that type of thing, where there's no reason for this,

00:05:11 ◼   ► but you're already buying an Aston Martin,

00:05:13 ◼   ► it wasn't Aston, it was some other car company,

00:05:14 ◼   ► but you're already buying a car

00:05:16 ◼   ► for like 200 and something grand,

00:05:17 ◼   ► and we keep making new trim levels every year

00:05:19 ◼   ► 'cause we don't wanna have to,

00:05:21 ◼   ► there's a long gap between the years,

00:05:22 ◼   ► and so we make the one that has the pinstripe,

00:05:24 ◼   ► and the one with the big wing, and the four-wheel drive one,

00:05:27 ◼   ► and the convertible one, and then eventually,

00:05:29 ◼   ► they make one with the stick,

00:05:30 ◼   ► and that's gonna be the last car that's gonna have a stick.

00:05:31 ◼   ► It'll be an expensive novelty for very rich people

00:05:34 ◼   ► on very expensive cars.

00:05:36 ◼   ► - Okay, that's a fair answer.

00:05:38 ◼   ► If I were to now move the goalposts

00:05:40 ◼   ► and change it to be a car that a regular human can buy,

00:05:44 ◼   ► what would you say?

00:05:45 ◼   ► - In the US.

00:05:46 ◼   ► - In the US, in the US.

00:05:47 ◼   ► - Maybe, is the Civic still available with stick?

00:05:50 ◼   ► - No, the Civic is not, if it was gonna be a Honda,

00:05:53 ◼   ► it would be like the Fit or something,

00:05:54 ◼   ► but I'm thinking about if the economies of scale

00:05:57 ◼   ► will get to the point where they're not gonna do that either.

00:05:59 ◼   ► - But you gotta figure out the Civic Type R

00:06:02 ◼   ► would probably be a pretty good candidate for that,

00:06:03 ◼   ► 'cause it's a pretty high selling, I think,

00:06:06 ◼   ► car that the audience would want it to be stick

00:06:08 ◼   ► for a long time.

00:06:09 ◼   ► - But it's also aspirational in that it aspires

00:06:12 ◼   ► to a very fast automated manual or a very fast automatic,

00:06:16 ◼   ► because that's what the exotic cars all have.

00:06:18 ◼   ► So the Ferraris don't have them anymore

00:06:19 ◼   ► and the Civic wants to be a little mini Ferrari,

00:06:21 ◼   ► so I feel like it's gonna go that way.

00:06:23 ◼   ► I'm gonna go out of left field and say some Mazda,

00:06:28 ◼   ► like the Miata.

00:06:30 ◼   ► - Hmm, okay, I can buy that.

00:06:32 ◼   ► I've never driven a Miata.

00:06:33 ◼   ► I've heard they are phenomenally fun.

00:06:35 ◼   ► They are extremely slow, but phenomenally fun.

00:06:37 ◼   ► - I think only Marco can fit in one, unfortunately.

00:06:39 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:06:41 ◼   ► - They are very small.

00:06:42 ◼   ► They're very small. - They're nothing.

00:06:44 ◼   ► So Marco, back years and years ago,

00:06:46 ◼   ► when you were living in the dark ages

00:06:48 ◼   ► and using dead dinosaurs to move you around

00:06:51 ◼   ► from town to town, some of us chose to use a transmission

00:06:55 ◼   ► that required you to have three pedals.

00:06:58 ◼   ► That's what we call a stick.

00:06:59 ◼   ► I know this is hard for you to remember now.

00:07:01 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:07:02 ◼   ► If you remember those dark, dark, terrible days,

00:07:05 ◼   ► if you were to guess which American affordable car

00:07:09 ◼   ► would be the last car to have one of these

00:07:10 ◼   ► just horrible devices, which would you guess?

00:07:14 ◼   ► - Well, I just did.

00:07:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:07:16 ◼   ► I guessed the Civic Type R.

00:07:17 ◼   ► I think that might be my final guess.

00:07:21 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm trying to think,

00:07:23 ◼   ► 'cause it would be something that's,

00:07:25 ◼   ► I think we're almost out of the time period now

00:07:28 ◼   ► where people would just get it out of cheapness.

00:07:31 ◼   ► There's only, are there any cars left in the US

00:07:33 ◼   ► that have a stick as the base model just for cheapness?

00:07:36 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, sure.

00:07:37 ◼   ► I think the Fit still does, to give you an example.

00:07:40 ◼   ► There's lots of, it's still happening now.

00:07:42 ◼   ► I think your answer, Marco, should be the surprise answer,

00:07:45 ◼   ► which you probably don't even want to hear.

00:07:46 ◼   ► But electric cars are starting to come with transmissions.

00:07:49 ◼   ► And if one doesn't already come with a manual,

00:07:51 ◼   ► there will be an electric car with a manual transmission.

00:07:53 ◼   ► As absurd as that sounds to you.

00:07:56 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure there is one now as well.

00:07:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, wasn't there a--

00:07:59 ◼   ► - Why?

00:08:00 ◼   ► - I think there was a one-off Mustang, if I'm not mistaken,

00:08:03 ◼   ► that they put a stick in.

00:08:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what it is.

00:08:06 ◼   ► It wasn't, not the Mach-E,

00:08:07 ◼   ► but there was some electrified Mustang

00:08:09 ◼   ► that had a manual transmission, yeah.

00:08:11 ◼   ► Why?

00:08:12 ◼   ► They have transmissions for the same reason

00:08:14 ◼   ► that gas cars have transmissions,

00:08:15 ◼   ► to more efficiently put the power to the road.

00:08:17 ◼   ► Like the Taycan, I can't do it.

00:08:21 ◼   ► The Taycan has two-speed transmissions.

00:08:24 ◼   ► It's not manual, obviously, but it has two speeds.

00:08:25 ◼   ► So when you go highway cruising,

00:08:27 ◼   ► your engines can be going at lower speed,

00:08:28 ◼   ► and it's more efficient for battery power.

00:08:30 ◼   ► - Is it that much more efficient?

00:08:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, it shifts at like 60 when you're flat out, yeah.

00:08:35 ◼   ► So anyway, the possibility of electric cars

00:08:39 ◼   ► with manual transmissions does exist,

00:08:40 ◼   ► and so you should predict the last car

00:08:41 ◼   ► that's gonna have one is gonna be,

00:08:42 ◼   ► I mean, it still fits in my model

00:08:44 ◼   ► of some novelty expensive car.

00:08:45 ◼   ► I just didn't say whether that car would be electric or not,

00:08:47 ◼   ► but it could be.

00:08:48 ◼   ► - Can you feel the shift like you can in a regular car?

00:08:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's the same thing.

00:08:51 ◼   ► It's just a power source and some kind of clutch

00:08:54 ◼   ► that you actuate with a pedal with your left foot,

00:08:56 ◼   ► and then you, the whole nine yards,

00:08:59 ◼   ► different gear ratios, and yeah.

00:09:00 ◼   ► - Why would you want, see, look,

00:09:02 ◼   ► the whole reason I like a stick or a DCT

00:09:05 ◼   ► is because transmissions are terrible,

00:09:08 ◼   ► and the best transmission is no transmission,

00:09:10 ◼   ► but if there's gonna be one,

00:09:11 ◼   ► I wanna decide what it does, dammit.

00:09:13 ◼   ► But if you have a type of drivetrain,

00:09:16 ◼   ► like a pure electric, that for the most part

00:09:18 ◼   ► doesn't really need a transmission,

00:09:20 ◼   ► why would you add one?

00:09:22 ◼   ► - Well, like I said, you're adding it

00:09:23 ◼   ► because it's more efficient.

00:09:24 ◼   ► You get better mileage.

00:09:25 ◼   ► Like the two-speed and the Taycan,

00:09:27 ◼   ► you get better acceleration numbers

00:09:28 ◼   ► 'cause you have shorter gearing from a standstill,

00:09:32 ◼   ► and then you have more efficient highway cruising

00:09:33 ◼   ► because it's taller gearing.

00:09:34 ◼   ► It's the same reason the gas cars do it, it's exactly it.

00:09:37 ◼   ► - Why doesn't Tesla use the exact same setup then?

00:09:40 ◼   ► - They're not using, they're using like half the voltage

00:09:42 ◼   ► that the Taycan is using,

00:09:44 ◼   ► and there's all sorts of things

00:09:46 ◼   ► about Tesla's original electric system

00:09:48 ◼   ► that are different about the Porsche one.

00:09:50 ◼   ► So the trade-offs Porsche is making

00:09:51 ◼   ► allow it to charge faster,

00:09:53 ◼   ► allow it to be slightly more efficient,

00:09:54 ◼   ► allow it to have slightly better performance.

00:09:56 ◼   ► I'm assuming the next-gen Tesla stuff

00:09:57 ◼   ► will do all the same things

00:09:58 ◼   ► 'cause everyone's going to that

00:09:59 ◼   ► whatever it is, 800-volt setup.

00:10:01 ◼   ► So that's just sort of a generational thing.

00:10:02 ◼   ► Doesn't mean they'd have to have a transmission.

00:10:04 ◼   ► It just, you know, there's an advantage to it.

00:10:07 ◼   ► Like, simplicity is the advantage of not having one,

00:10:09 ◼   ► but you get some range and performance benefits

00:10:12 ◼   ► to having one.

00:10:13 ◼   ► It's only two-speed, right?

00:10:15 ◼   ► It's not like there's 900 gears or whatever.

00:10:16 ◼   ► And the only reason you'd have a manual is, like I said,

00:10:18 ◼   ► to satisfy weird people who want to shift themselves.

00:10:20 ◼   ► It's massively less efficient than letting it shift yourself.

00:10:23 ◼   ► - Ooh, ooh, ooh.

00:10:24 ◼   ► When they, if they only have two gears,

00:10:26 ◼   ► can we bring back the turbo button

00:10:28 ◼   ► that computers used to have?

00:10:29 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:10:30 ◼   ► - Well, but then what would it do

00:10:32 ◼   ► with that downshift into the lower gear?

00:10:34 ◼   ► 'Cause I think you can't, if you're over like 60,

00:10:36 ◼   ► you can't be in the lower gear in the Taycan.

00:10:40 ◼   ► Like, it's, you know, that's the end of the gear,

00:10:43 ◼   ► as far as, like, I don't know what you would press the button

00:10:45 ◼   ► to make it do, 'cause it's not really gonna make you

00:10:47 ◼   ► go any faster in any real situation.

00:10:50 ◼   ► If you're gonna make it go slower,

00:10:51 ◼   ► you could force it to upshift to 30,

00:10:52 ◼   ► and then all of a sudden, your car has worse performance.

00:10:55 ◼   ► - Oh, man.

00:10:56 ◼   ► I hope that day is coming, not at all soon,

00:10:59 ◼   ► but it could be coming.

00:10:59 ◼   ► The reason I was very confused about bad news for my car

00:11:03 ◼   ► is because my car is actually currently at a body shop,

00:11:05 ◼   ► because I got lightly rear-ended a week or two ago.

00:11:08 ◼   ► And so, I, a young person in a,

00:11:13 ◼   ► what is that unremarkable Jeep,

00:11:15 ◼   ► like a Compass or something like that?

00:11:16 ◼   ► - All of them.

00:11:17 ◼   ► There's a lot of unremarkable Jeeps right now.

00:11:19 ◼   ► - Fair, fair, fair.

00:11:20 ◼   ► But anyway, we were at a stoplight.

00:11:22 ◼   ► I was, it had just turned green.

00:11:24 ◼   ► I was just about to take off,

00:11:25 ◼   ► and I felt like a very subtle bump in the back,

00:11:28 ◼   ► to the point that I honestly had thought I had stalled.

00:11:30 ◼   ► That's how subtle it was.

00:11:32 ◼   ► And then Aaron said, "Did we just get hit?"

00:11:34 ◼   ► And I stopped, and I realized, oh, yes, yes we did.

00:11:37 ◼   ► And so, because Virginia is a lovely, wonderful state,

00:11:41 ◼   ► well, Commonwealth strictly speaking,

00:11:43 ◼   ► that does so many things right.

00:11:45 ◼   ► - It's such a nerd.

00:11:46 ◼   ► - Does so many things right, except we are monsters,

00:11:50 ◼   ► and require a front license plate.

00:11:52 ◼   ► And so, the screw, one of the screws

00:11:54 ◼   ► that was holding this individual's front license plate

00:11:58 ◼   ► onto their car kind of, not punched a hole,

00:12:01 ◼   ► but sort of kind of punched a hole in the paint,

00:12:02 ◼   ► I guess you could say, of my bumper.

00:12:04 ◼   ► And so, yeah, that's a thing,

00:12:06 ◼   ► and it's been at the repair shop for a day and a half,

00:12:09 ◼   ► and supposedly it's almost done.

00:12:10 ◼   ► - You know, most people just live with that, you know.

00:12:12 ◼   ► - No, well, plus it wasn't my fault.

00:12:14 ◼   ► - I saw a picture of it.

00:12:15 ◼   ► It's very small.

00:12:17 ◼   ► You're gonna pay for the entire repair yourself,

00:12:19 ◼   ► 'cause there's no way that's--

00:12:20 ◼   ► - No, I did not.

00:12:21 ◼   ► - You don't have any deductible?

00:12:22 ◼   ► - I do have a deductible, but this individual bumped me,

00:12:25 ◼   ► and so, in order to, it was a very young person,

00:12:29 ◼   ► and so, I think their parents and they concluded that--

00:12:33 ◼   ► - Oh, they just gave you some money.

00:12:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, in order to alleviate dinging their insurance,

00:12:38 ◼   ► which is also selfishly good for me,

00:12:40 ◼   ► because I don't want this car to be forever tainted

00:12:41 ◼   ► on like, you know, Carfax or something like that.

00:12:43 ◼   ► But anyways.

00:12:44 ◼   ► - I don't think that kind of incident goes to Carfax.

00:12:47 ◼   ► - Like, seriously, people,

00:12:48 ◼   ► Marco should put a picture in the show art.

00:12:50 ◼   ► We're talking about a tiny nick to the paint

00:12:53 ◼   ► the size of a dime.

00:12:55 ◼   ► - That's the real record.

00:12:56 ◼   ► - A ring the size of a dime, not even a complete ring.

00:12:58 ◼   ► - Yep, that's pretty accurate.

00:12:59 ◼   ► - On the plastic bumper, that yes,

00:13:00 ◼   ► it went through the paint to the plastic, but that's it.

00:13:02 ◼   ► It's like a ring the size of a dime.

00:13:04 ◼   ► - I'm pretty sure every car I've ever had

00:13:06 ◼   ► has incurred damage like that,

00:13:08 ◼   ► and like, these are the leases that I would turn in,

00:13:10 ◼   ► and they wouldn't even comment on it.

00:13:11 ◼   ► I wouldn't get charged, like, it's that minor.

00:13:14 ◼   ► - Well, $500 later, it will be fixed.

00:13:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, so that's not a $500 ding.

00:13:20 ◼   ► - Hey, man.

00:13:21 ◼   ► - I feel you, 'cause I have the same attitude

00:13:23 ◼   ► towards things and scratches in my car.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Of course I do, right?

00:13:26 ◼   ► But I let them build up.

00:13:29 ◼   ► So I have done bumper repair on my car,

00:13:32 ◼   ► and I let it get pretty bad.

00:13:35 ◼   ► Large, big, scratchy regions where cement chips off the road

00:13:41 ◼   ► and scratched my thing, and bumps from who knows what

00:13:45 ◼   ► in the parking lot, and just all sorts of stuff

00:13:48 ◼   ► that happens to my car when I'm not there,

00:13:50 ◼   ► and I was like, all right.

00:13:50 ◼   ► And my car has black sand, like it's scraping through

00:13:53 ◼   ► and making these horrible white paint

00:13:54 ◼   ► for other people's cars.

00:13:55 ◼   ► Eventually it built up to the point where I could

00:13:58 ◼   ► plunk down an obscene amount of money

00:13:59 ◼   ► to get my plastic bumper repaired.

00:14:02 ◼   ► But if you do it every time, that's expensive.

00:14:06 ◼   ► - That's fair.

00:14:07 ◼   ► But no, it really bothered me, and I wanted to get it fixed.

00:14:11 ◼   ► And since I was bumped in the back,

00:14:13 ◼   ► it's pretty much guaranteed not to be my fault.

00:14:15 ◼   ► And we actually did call a police officer,

00:14:17 ◼   ► which I have a question about that in a second.

00:14:19 ◼   ► We called a police officer just to see what happened.

00:14:21 ◼   ► And the gentleman was very nice, the police officer,

00:14:24 ◼   ► but he basically looked at the car and said,

00:14:26 ◼   ► that's less than, I think he said $1,500 worth of damage.

00:14:29 ◼   ► And so I'm not even gonna write this up.

00:14:31 ◼   ► - Jason being an insurance adjuster,

00:14:34 ◼   ► he knows it's less than $1,500.

00:14:36 ◼   ► If you drove a Ferrari, that would not be less than $1,500.

00:14:39 ◼   ► - That's very fair.

00:14:40 ◼   ► But anyway, but he didn't write it up.

00:14:42 ◼   ► And so he was just like, here, here's a form

00:14:44 ◼   ► for you to write each other's information down and go away.

00:14:47 ◼   ► What I don't understand though is,

00:14:49 ◼   ► why didn't the individual that bumped me

00:14:50 ◼   ► get some sort of citation?

00:14:52 ◼   ► It didn't occur to me until after I had driven away

00:14:54 ◼   ► and it was all over.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Like, yeah, they didn't do a whole bunch of damage,

00:14:57 ◼   ► but they still bumped another car.

00:14:59 ◼   ► Like shouldn't that individual have gotten written

00:15:01 ◼   ► like some sort of ticket?

00:15:03 ◼   ► If you're a law enforcement officer

00:15:05 ◼   ► and have information about this,

00:15:06 ◼   ► I would like, not me specifically, just in general,

00:15:09 ◼   ► I would love to hear why this person wasn't written up

00:15:13 ◼   ► or given a ticket for having hit another car.

00:15:16 ◼   ► - As we know, many things are at the discretion

00:15:18 ◼   ► of law enforcement officers.

00:15:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I know.

00:15:21 ◼   ► - I think that's the answer.

00:15:22 ◼   ► - I mean, I think the job of police officers largely is like,

00:15:27 ◼   ► the world is going to try to shove all of their problems

00:15:29 ◼   ► onto your plate.

00:15:31 ◼   ► You as the police officer have to decide like,

00:15:33 ◼   ► what is worth my time and what isn't?

00:15:36 ◼   ► - And what's worth the paperwork.

00:15:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly, and I feel like that's probably why.

00:15:40 ◼   ► They probably get called out for every dumb little thing

00:15:42 ◼   ► and if they can get rid of some stuff,

00:15:46 ◼   ► get it off their plate,

00:15:47 ◼   ► I'm sure they're very happy to do that.

00:15:48 ◼   ► So I'm sure the officer saw what happened here,

00:15:51 ◼   ► saw it was incredibly minor,

00:15:52 ◼   ► and not only was it not worth filing a police report

00:15:56 ◼   ► for the accident, it wasn't even worth citing the person

00:15:59 ◼   ► because it's like, who cares?

00:16:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's not a criminal matter.

00:16:02 ◼   ► They weren't reckless driving, they're not drunk,

00:16:04 ◼   ► you know, it's totally a civil matter.

00:16:07 ◼   ► - Oh, that's interesting.

00:16:08 ◼   ► You don't think that there was any law broken?

00:16:09 ◼   ► I mean, they hit another car.

00:16:11 ◼   ► - Is that illegal?

00:16:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

00:16:13 ◼   ► That's why I think your question is an interesting one.

00:16:15 ◼   ► Like, obviously there's fault and there's the insurance

00:16:18 ◼   ► and there's all sorts of, you could sue the person

00:16:20 ◼   ► and have sources of civil cases or whatever,

00:16:22 ◼   ► but the laws about driving are about obeying traffic signs

00:16:26 ◼   ► and not being intoxicated and not driving recklessly

00:16:28 ◼   ► and all that other stuff,

00:16:29 ◼   ► and there's probably some law that you could cite.

00:16:30 ◼   ► - Well, what about following too close?

00:16:32 ◼   ► I mean, there's a rule about not following too close

00:16:34 ◼   ► and this individual broke that rule.

00:16:35 ◼   ► - Weren't you stationary?

00:16:37 ◼   ► Like, maybe, I'm sure somewhere on the books

00:16:40 ◼   ► is a thing that says you shouldn't hit another car.

00:16:43 ◼   ► If the car in front of you doesn't go, you don't go either.

00:16:45 ◼   ► I'm sure that's in there, but I don't understand,

00:16:47 ◼   ► I don't know what like, how,

00:16:50 ◼   ► whatever the lowest level of infraction is,

00:16:53 ◼   ► I would imagine this would have to be it,

00:16:55 ◼   ► and I don't know what that's called.

00:16:56 ◼   ► It's not a misdemeanor, I don't know.

00:16:58 ◼   ► Anyway, that's why I'm actually interested

00:16:59 ◼   ► in the answer to this question

00:17:00 ◼   ► of some police officer wants to write in,

00:17:01 ◼   ► 'cause I have no idea what they would be cited for.

00:17:05 ◼   ► Well, I do agree that you,

00:17:06 ◼   ► as I think we discussed in a past show,

00:17:08 ◼   ► the whole thing about driving

00:17:09 ◼   ► is you don't let the cars touch.

00:17:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, that is kinda goal number one.

00:17:12 ◼   ► Did we talk about that here, or was that--

00:17:14 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:17:15 ◼   ► That was a neutral, if I'm not mistaken.

00:17:16 ◼   ► - There you go.

00:17:17 ◼   ► Don't let the cars touch, Casey.

00:17:19 ◼   ► - Well, you know what, I was trying not to,

00:17:21 ◼   ► but apparently some--

00:17:22 ◼   ► - Takes two to touch.

00:17:23 ◼   ► Wow. - Thanks, Dad.

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00:19:13 ◼   ► - Alrighty, let's do a little bit of follow-up.

00:19:19 ◼   ► Marco, you apparently would like to file a report

00:19:21 ◼   ► of your own with regard to the Paperlike 2.

00:19:23 ◼   ► Is that a Kindle?

00:19:24 ◼   ► I don't even know.

00:19:25 ◼   ► - (laughs) Good guess.

00:19:27 ◼   ► No, we talked on this show about a year ago.

00:19:30 ◼   ► I had tried out a screen protector for my iPad

00:19:34 ◼   ► called the Paperlike.

00:19:35 ◼   ► I loved the way that it felt,

00:19:38 ◼   ► because the iPad Pro has the feeling,

00:19:42 ◼   ► especially when you first get the new one

00:19:44 ◼   ► when it's all clean and not covered in finger grease,

00:19:46 ◼   ► it's almost tacky.

00:19:49 ◼   ► You need a smoother surface,

00:19:51 ◼   ► and your fingers almost get caught on it.

00:19:52 ◼   ► It's so bare and such a large surface.

00:19:56 ◼   ► But then, unfortunately, the iPad Pro also has

00:19:58 ◼   ► a fairly weak oleophobic coating,

00:20:00 ◼   ► the thing that rejects finger oils,

00:20:02 ◼   ► because ever since the iPad Pro came out

00:20:04 ◼   ► with pencil support, apparently it's been a thing

00:20:06 ◼   ► that Apple has not been able to figure out

00:20:08 ◼   ► an oleophobic coating that is compatible

00:20:10 ◼   ► with the Apple Pencil that is any good.

00:20:12 ◼   ► And so the result is any iPad since then

00:20:14 ◼   ► is a fingerprint magnet,

00:20:16 ◼   ► way more than the previous ones were.

00:20:17 ◼   ► And so the iPad screen is always just covered

00:20:20 ◼   ► in finger grease.

00:20:21 ◼   ► Anyway, so I was trying a screen protector last year

00:20:24 ◼   ► called the Paperlike that advertises that it feels

00:20:28 ◼   ► like paper, so it's a better texture

00:20:30 ◼   ► for when you're drawing with the pencil and everything.

00:20:32 ◼   ► And I hardly ever actually do that,

00:20:34 ◼   ► but I did like the idea of a matte finish screen protector

00:20:37 ◼   ► because not only did it improve that slippery finger feel

00:20:42 ◼   ► and make it easier to do swipe gestures and everything,

00:20:45 ◼   ► but also it seemed to lessen the fingerprint problem.

00:20:47 ◼   ► The downside was that it kind of blurred

00:20:50 ◼   ► and added rainbow light refraction noise

00:20:54 ◼   ► to the picture quality on the iPad.

00:20:56 ◼   ► So it felt better, and it looked better when it was off

00:20:59 ◼   ► 'cause it wasn't covered in greasy fingerprints,

00:21:01 ◼   ► but when it was on, the picture quality was sacrificed

00:21:05 ◼   ► too much, like it was just, it blurred the image too much

00:21:08 ◼   ► and it had this kind of like rainbow refraction noise

00:21:10 ◼   ► around everything.

00:21:11 ◼   ► And so it just, I eventually took it off,

00:21:14 ◼   ► which again immediately made it feel worse again,

00:21:16 ◼   ► and it was immediately covered in fingerprints,

00:21:19 ◼   ► but I did take it off eventually because I just didn't find

00:21:22 ◼   ► the picture quality trade-off acceptable.

00:21:24 ◼   ► The Paperlike 2 has just come out.

00:21:27 ◼   ► I batched it on Kickstarter a while ago,

00:21:28 ◼   ► and the reason I gave it another shot

00:21:30 ◼   ► is that they specifically addressed that picture quality

00:21:33 ◼   ► thing in the Kickstarter campaign materials for it.

00:21:36 ◼   ► They basically said like, they basically created

00:21:39 ◼   ► a nano-coating texture, very similar advertising

00:21:43 ◼   ► to what Apple said they did with the Pro Display XDR's

00:21:47 ◼   ► anti-glare $1,000 option.

00:21:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that you had to spend

00:21:50 ◼   ► $1,000 on the screen protector.

00:21:52 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:53 ◼   ► - Well, it turns out it was only, I think it was only like

00:21:55 ◼   ► 25, 30 bucks, something like that.

00:21:57 ◼   ► So it is possible. - That's impossible.

00:21:58 ◼   ► - It is possible to do it more cheaply.

00:22:00 ◼   ► I got it today, I have it installed,

00:22:02 ◼   ► and so far I am pleasantly surprised by it.

00:22:06 ◼   ► Granted, I have not had a lot of time with it yet,

00:22:09 ◼   ► but it is a huge improvement in how much of the screen

00:22:14 ◼   ► quality gets reduced, but there is still some picture

00:22:18 ◼   ► of quality reduction.

00:22:19 ◼   ► There is still a little bit of blurring,

00:22:21 ◼   ► and a little bit of that rainbow noise effect,

00:22:23 ◼   ► but it's significantly lessened than the last generation one,

00:22:27 ◼   ► and it's much less than any other matte screen protector

00:22:30 ◼   ► I've ever used before, which admittedly I haven't used

00:22:33 ◼   ► that many in recent years, 'cause Retina screens

00:22:35 ◼   ► kinda ruin them, but this does look very good.

00:22:38 ◼   ► It does not look as good as the Pro Display XDR's

00:22:41 ◼   ► anti-glare coating, but it also isn't made of glass

00:22:44 ◼   ► and $1,000, so to give them credit,

00:22:47 ◼   ► if you like screen protectors, or if you are interested

00:22:51 ◼   ► in trying one, Paperlike 2 is actually,

00:22:55 ◼   ► it seems to be the real deal, so I'm gonna keep it on

00:22:56 ◼   ► for a while, I don't know if I'm going to stick

00:22:59 ◼   ► with it long term yet, but I'm at least gonna keep it on

00:23:02 ◼   ► for a little while, because I really like the way it feels,

00:23:05 ◼   ► and I really like how it immediately got rid of

00:23:08 ◼   ► all my fingerprints all over my screen, so yeah,

00:23:12 ◼   ► I'll report back in future episodes on whether I still

00:23:13 ◼   ► have it or not, but I'm tentatively optimistic about it,

00:23:17 ◼   ► and the one thing I really wish now,

00:23:19 ◼   ► I would love to have this for the MacBook Pro.

00:23:22 ◼   ► - So who, has Tiff used this, tried it on your iPad?

00:23:26 ◼   ► Or on hers?

00:23:27 ◼   ► - Not yet.

00:23:28 ◼   ► - So I'm wondering what, you know, she does,

00:23:30 ◼   ► I'm assuming a lot more drawing than you do on your iPad.

00:23:32 ◼   ► - Way more.

00:23:33 ◼   ► - I'm wondering how it feels for the supposed

00:23:36 ◼   ► intended purpose feeling like paper.

00:23:37 ◼   ► Like you want it for the fingerprinty stuff,

00:23:39 ◼   ► but I'm interested to see if she likes it

00:23:41 ◼   ► for the drawing parts.

00:23:43 ◼   ► - I also just enjoy the way it feels on my fingers,

00:23:46 ◼   ► like that's, it feels good, and it doesn't have

00:23:49 ◼   ► the screen all fingerprinty, and that's awesome.

00:23:51 ◼   ► - Oh, and also, if you want, you could probably buy

00:23:54 ◼   ► like nine of these and put them on your display XDR

00:23:58 ◼   ► and save yourself a lot of money.

00:24:01 ◼   ► Just try to ignore the seams, and the part

00:24:03 ◼   ► where the rounded corners don't meet, yeah, it'll be fine.

00:24:06 ◼   ► - Totally fine.

00:24:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, well I'm glad you found something

00:24:10 ◼   ► that you enjoy.

00:24:12 ◼   ► Tell me, Marco, about MacBook Pro pricing.

00:24:15 ◼   ► - What?

00:24:16 ◼   ► That's not Marco's topic, that's mine.

00:24:18 ◼   ► - I was hoping that was Marco's, but you know what?

00:24:20 ◼   ► As I've learned many times, and always deny,

00:24:23 ◼   ► it's always John, you guys, it's always, always John.

00:24:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, so last week when we talked about

00:24:28 ◼   ► the new 16-inch MacBook Pro, we talked about

00:24:31 ◼   ► almost everything about it except one item,

00:24:34 ◼   ► which is the price, and the price is interesting

00:24:37 ◼   ► in that it's not interesting.

00:24:40 ◼   ► So this, the new 16-inch MacBook Pro,

00:24:43 ◼   ► it has a bigger screen, it has much better speakers,

00:24:46 ◼   ► it has a much better microphone,

00:24:47 ◼   ► it has a much better keyboard, it has a bigger battery in it,

00:24:50 ◼   ► it has a better GPU, but it's the same price

00:24:53 ◼   ► as the one it replaces, more or less.

00:24:55 ◼   ► I'm sure there's differences in the models,

00:24:56 ◼   ► but it starts at the same price,

00:24:57 ◼   ► and so they didn't increase the price.

00:24:59 ◼   ► They didn't say, "Yeah, well this is the 16-inch,

00:25:00 ◼   ► "so it's gonna be an extra 50 bucks,

00:25:02 ◼   ► "or an extra 20 bucks, or an extra 100 bucks."

00:25:03 ◼   ► It's more or less the same price, which is nice,

00:25:06 ◼   ► and we didn't mention it, and I thought we should.

00:25:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly, this is one thing that we all got wrong

00:25:11 ◼   ► in the guesses, like everyone thought,

00:25:13 ◼   ► because Apple really has been doing a lot of price raising

00:25:15 ◼   ► in recent years, whenever they change a generation

00:25:17 ◼   ► of a product, price usually goes up,

00:25:19 ◼   ► and in this case, it didn't.

00:25:21 ◼   ► We were shocked, we were so sure

00:25:24 ◼   ► that it would be more expensive than the current ones,

00:25:26 ◼   ► that a common guess in the rumor mill

00:25:29 ◼   ► was that this would actually sit above the 15-inch,

00:25:32 ◼   ► and the 15-inch would stay in the lineup,

00:25:33 ◼   ► for just for price reasons, and that didn't happen here.

00:25:36 ◼   ► They just replaced the 15 with one that's better,

00:25:38 ◼   ► and it's the exact same price,

00:25:40 ◼   ► and additionally, the SSD capacities doubled.

00:25:44 ◼   ► So for the two configurations that are like the stock ones,

00:25:47 ◼   ► like the $2400 and $2700 ones, used to be 256 and 512

00:25:52 ◼   ► on the SSD, and now it's 512 and one terabyte respectively,

00:25:56 ◼   ► so they doubled the SSD sizes on both too,

00:25:59 ◼   ► which is wonderful, because now,

00:26:01 ◼   ► we've returned to the point now where like,

00:26:03 ◼   ► I feel like I can confidently recommend

00:26:05 ◼   ► the base model again.

00:26:06 ◼   ► Like for years, I was saying,

00:26:08 ◼   ► "Hey, well, you should get the base model,

00:26:10 ◼   ► "it's a great buy," except 256 on the SSD is pretty tight,

00:26:14 ◼   ► I wouldn't recommend that.

00:26:16 ◼   ► Now, I do recommend, 'cause 512, I think,

00:26:18 ◼   ► is the minimum anybody should have,

00:26:20 ◼   ► and I usually go for the terabyte on mine these days,

00:26:23 ◼   ► but yeah, 512 is a perfectly fine minimum,

00:26:26 ◼   ► and so the base model is recommendable once again.

00:26:28 ◼   ► So to have this new computer that is substantially better

00:26:32 ◼   ► in some pretty important ways be the same price,

00:26:35 ◼   ► and also give double SSD from where it was before,

00:26:38 ◼   ► I know SSD pricing is really cheap these days,

00:26:40 ◼   ► yes, yes, yes, I know, but the fact that we have this now

00:26:43 ◼   ► is pretty good.

00:26:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, I actually went to the local Apple store today

00:26:47 ◼   ► to check out the new MacBook Pro.

00:26:49 ◼   ► I-- - Do you have one yet?

00:26:51 ◼   ► - We're gonna talk about this later.

00:26:52 ◼   ► We're gonna talk about this later, but I--

00:26:54 ◼   ► - You do, don't you?

00:26:55 ◼   ► - I do want the new MacBook Pro.

00:26:58 ◼   ► Here's the thing, it is a aircraft carrier

00:27:01 ◼   ► compared to what I'm used to,

00:27:02 ◼   ► and remember, I have the 12-inch MacBook.

00:27:05 ◼   ► It's not obnoxiously heavy by comparison.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Now, granted, I didn't have a MacBook next to it

00:27:11 ◼   ► to compare to, but just by picking up the MacBook Pro,

00:27:14 ◼   ► it's not terribly thick, it's not terribly heavy,

00:27:18 ◼   ► but just in surface area alone,

00:27:20 ◼   ► like the footprint of the thing

00:27:21 ◼   ► is just comically, comically large,

00:27:24 ◼   ► and I just don't know if I want something that big,

00:27:27 ◼   ► but I've been starting to have, as we've talked about,

00:27:31 ◼   ► and we will talk about later,

00:27:32 ◼   ► I've been starting to have problems with the iMac again,

00:27:33 ◼   ► and so I'm starting to wonder,

00:27:35 ◼   ► you know, maybe I should just get this 16-inch MacBook Pro

00:27:38 ◼   ► and a LG 5K abomination and just call it a day

00:27:41 ◼   ► and just, you know, stop having a desktop anymore,

00:27:44 ◼   ► and I'm gonna need you two to argue with me

00:27:47 ◼   ► and convince me not to do that here in a little bit,

00:27:49 ◼   ► but one way or another, the keyboard is excellent.

00:27:53 ◼   ► It is very, very good.

00:27:53 ◼   ► It feels very much like the Magic Keyboard.

00:27:56 ◼   ► It feels ever so slightly less mushy to me.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Again, I didn't have a Magic Keyboard

00:28:00 ◼   ► like next to it to compare,

00:28:02 ◼   ► but from what I could remember

00:28:03 ◼   ► of typing on a Magic Keyboard,

00:28:04 ◼   ► it felt slightly less mushy, which I thought was good.

00:28:07 ◼   ► I don't find the Magic Keyboard to be particularly mushy,

00:28:10 ◼   ► but it felt slightly less mushy,

00:28:13 ◼   ► but it is very, very good,

00:28:14 ◼   ► and it felt extremely similar to the Magic Keyboard,

00:28:17 ◼   ► so based on 30 to 60 seconds with it,

00:28:22 ◼   ► two thumbs way, way, way up.

00:28:23 ◼   ► I really like the keyboard,

00:28:24 ◼   ► and it seems like it's exactly what we've always wanted,

00:28:28 ◼   ► which again, I mean, Marco covered last week,

00:28:30 ◼   ► but now you have somebody else saying that.

00:28:31 ◼   ► You know what, Marco's right.

00:28:33 ◼   ► Marco, you did buy one or no?

00:28:34 ◼   ► - Yes, I did.

00:28:35 ◼   ► So I-- - Okay, so what did you buy?

00:28:37 ◼   ► - I went into the store and just bought

00:28:40 ◼   ► the 2799 stock model.

00:28:42 ◼   ► In a perfectly ideal world,

00:28:46 ◼   ► maybe I would have gone 32 gigs and two terabytes

00:28:49 ◼   ► for future expansion,

00:28:50 ◼   ► but I know myself well enough to know a couple of things.

00:28:54 ◼   ► A, I'm impatient.

00:28:55 ◼   ► I wanted my own now.

00:28:56 ◼   ► Now, I still do have Apple's review in it

00:28:58 ◼   ► because I haven't had to send it back yet,

00:28:59 ◼   ► but when you have a review,

00:29:01 ◼   ► I didn't wanna fully move into it.

00:29:04 ◼   ► I didn't wanna have to transfer over

00:29:05 ◼   ► certain activation software licenses and stuff like that.

00:29:09 ◼   ► There's a bunch of stuff that when you get a new laptop,

00:29:11 ◼   ► you kinda move into it fully,

00:29:13 ◼   ► and I didn't wanna do all that to the review loner

00:29:17 ◼   ► knowing that within a matter of weeks,

00:29:19 ◼   ► I would have to send it back

00:29:20 ◼   ► and do the whole thing again.

00:29:22 ◼   ► All right, so I wanted to get my own fairly soon

00:29:24 ◼   ► so I could really complete that move-in process

00:29:26 ◼   ► and only had to do it once,

00:29:28 ◼   ► and I also looked at the 13-inch MacBook Pro

00:29:31 ◼   ► I've been using for the last year and a half.

00:29:33 ◼   ► It only had 16 gigs of RAM and one terabyte,

00:29:36 ◼   ► and that had been fine for me for my laptop needs.

00:29:39 ◼   ► You know, it'd be different if it was my primary computer

00:29:41 ◼   ► and I was doing heavy development work

00:29:42 ◼   ► as my primary computer,

00:29:44 ◼   ► then I might spec it up a little bit more,

00:29:46 ◼   ► but 16 and one terabyte was fine for my needs.

00:29:48 ◼   ► It was perfectly fine for the last year and a half,

00:29:51 ◼   ► so I know that A, that's probably gonna be fine

00:29:54 ◼   ► for the time I have this laptop.

00:29:56 ◼   ► B, I also know myself,

00:29:58 ◼   ► and I know I'm probably only gonna have this laptop

00:30:00 ◼   ► for a year and a half or whatever.

00:30:02 ◼   ► - Ah, that's funny, that's very funny.

00:30:05 ◼   ► If you make it a month and a half, I'll be impressed.

00:30:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, and the big test is gonna be

00:30:09 ◼   ► when they do come out with this keyboard in a 13-inch,

00:30:12 ◼   ► then that's gonna be the big test

00:30:15 ◼   ► because I too look at this thing and think,

00:30:18 ◼   ► this is an aircraft carrier.

00:30:20 ◼   ► This is way bigger than what I am accustomed to

00:30:25 ◼   ► because I'm coming off the 13, as I said,

00:30:27 ◼   ► for a year and a half,

00:30:28 ◼   ► so I'm accustomed to a much smaller computer than this.

00:30:32 ◼   ► That being said, I did use a 15-inch for years before that

00:30:35 ◼   ► and liked it, so I might stick with it.

00:30:37 ◼   ► Either way, 16 and one terabyte were fine with me,

00:30:41 ◼   ► and I wanted the 8-core, and that has the 8-core,

00:30:43 ◼   ► so I am very, very happy with just that regular

00:30:46 ◼   ► 2799 stock config, and I was able to get it very quickly.

00:30:50 ◼   ► I got it on day one, so I got to move into it fully,

00:30:53 ◼   ► and here I am.

00:30:55 ◼   ► When I eventually wanna sell it to you in a few months,

00:30:58 ◼   ► when the 13-inch comes out, let me know.

00:31:00 ◼   ► - No way, 'cause I'm gonna get a 13.

00:31:02 ◼   ► Honestly, I genuinely think if they had come out

00:31:04 ◼   ► with what presumably would be a 14-inch,

00:31:07 ◼   ► you know, we're saying the same thing,

00:31:08 ◼   ► you know, the 13-inch with the new keyboard,

00:31:10 ◼   ► et cetera, et cetera, I think I would have insta-bought it

00:31:13 ◼   ► that the day it came out, just like you did with this,

00:31:15 ◼   ► or maybe at most I would order a slightly different config,

00:31:18 ◼   ► but if they had a new 13 with the new keyboard,

00:31:23 ◼   ► I would have already bought one, and I'm a little scared.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Was it Jonathan Morrison?

00:31:29 ◼   ► Did I get that name right?

00:31:29 ◼   ► I forget who it was, but somebody did an interview

00:31:31 ◼   ► with Phil Schiller on that day and asked basically,

00:31:36 ◼   ► hey, so, you know, presumably the 14's coming out soon,

00:31:38 ◼   ► right, and I forget exactly how it was answered,

00:31:41 ◼   ► but Phil kinda pumped the brakes on that

00:31:43 ◼   ► more than I would have expected, so I'm a little nervous

00:31:47 ◼   ► that that's gonna be like many, many months in the future,

00:31:50 ◼   ► but we'll see what happens.

00:31:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's always a possibility,

00:31:53 ◼   ► but I think his statement was, I mean, he can't,

00:31:57 ◼   ► he's not going to say that they're coming.

00:31:58 ◼   ► He can't say that they're coming,

00:32:00 ◼   ► and the harder you press on that question,

00:32:02 ◼   ► the more forcefully he has to say,

00:32:04 ◼   ► not, he has to not say that they're coming.

00:32:06 ◼   ► He has to say, we sell the butterfly one

00:32:08 ◼   ► and this one right now.

00:32:10 ◼   ► We are continuing to sell the butterfly one

00:32:12 ◼   ► because that's the truth, and if you keep pressing,

00:32:14 ◼   ► he keeps having to say that over and over again,

00:32:16 ◼   ► and it makes you start thinking, oh my God,

00:32:17 ◼   ► they're never gonna replace it, but they will.

00:32:19 ◼   ► It's just a matter of time.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Like, it may be way too long, and we may be angry

00:32:23 ◼   ► in two years screaming that the MacBook Air

00:32:25 ◼   ► still doesn't have its keyboard, but he can't,

00:32:28 ◼   ► he literally can't say anything differently now,

00:32:30 ◼   ► so I saw that too, and it didn't make me feel any better

00:32:33 ◼   ► or any worse about the prospects.

00:32:34 ◼   ► Just, people wanna be reassured, and that reassurance

00:32:36 ◼   ► is not coming from a company that is currently

00:32:38 ◼   ► selling butterfly keyboards.

00:32:40 ◼   ► - I'm starting to lose faith that the 13 inch replacement

00:32:43 ◼   ► will become 14 inches.

00:32:45 ◼   ► The kind of thing that usually leaks pretty far ahead

00:32:48 ◼   ► of time these days, usually through Ming-Chi Kuo,

00:32:50 ◼   ► is when display panel sizes and resolutions change,

00:32:54 ◼   ► and for something that we expect to be launching

00:32:57 ◼   ► in less than a year, and probably less than six months,

00:33:00 ◼   ► the fact that we haven't had a display panel leak

00:33:03 ◼   ► about a 14 inch display panel coming out soon is concerning,

00:33:07 ◼   ► and in fact, I believe Ming-Chi Kuo, or one of the common

00:33:11 ◼   ► rumor mill people has even said recently that it's gonna

00:33:14 ◼   ► be 13.3 still, so I'm guessing it's actually probably

00:33:19 ◼   ► not gonna go to 14, which I hope I'm wrong,

00:33:21 ◼   ► because I would love for it to, (laughs)

00:33:25 ◼   ► but it doesn't seem like that's in the cards yet,

00:33:28 ◼   ► or at least if it is in the cards, they have dramatically

00:33:32 ◼   ► improved their secrecy around display panel leaks,

00:33:34 ◼   ► which previously were leaking all the time very reliably.

00:33:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, I haven't seen any rumors of a 14.

00:33:40 ◼   ► Like, the only reason we're talking about a 14

00:33:42 ◼   ► is because it would be cool and it's what we all want,

00:33:44 ◼   ► but like, what I've never, besides wishful thinking

00:33:46 ◼   ► on our part, and the fact that it seems like a cool idea,

00:33:48 ◼   ► I haven't seen anything about it, so that's,

00:33:50 ◼   ► we're still treating it as a thing that Apple should do,

00:33:53 ◼   ► but you know, I don't know what the lead times are

00:33:55 ◼   ► on panels, maybe there's, if the thing comes out

00:33:56 ◼   ► in eight months, maybe there's still time for a panel leak,

00:33:58 ◼   ► but who knows, but yeah, it's firmly in the category

00:34:02 ◼   ► of cool thing that we think Apple should do,

00:34:04 ◼   ► and not the thing that we think Apple is going to do,

00:34:06 ◼   ► necessarily, at this point.

00:34:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, and to be fair, like, I'm not bent on it

00:34:10 ◼   ► being a 14 inch, like, if they came out with the exact

00:34:13 ◼   ► same panel, like you're saying, Marco, but you know,

00:34:15 ◼   ► the new keyboard and presumably slightly better internals,

00:34:17 ◼   ► et cetera, I would still insta-buy that, too,

00:34:19 ◼   ► like, I'm not hanging my hat on an additional inch

00:34:23 ◼   ► of display, I'm hanging it on the new keyboard,

00:34:27 ◼   ► because as it turns out, as I was driving,

00:34:29 ◼   ► or well, Aaron was driving me to Apple,

00:34:31 ◼   ► because I have no car, I was typing on the,

00:34:35 ◼   ► I was trying to do some work on my adorable,

00:34:37 ◼   ► and the H key was sticking, and it was one other key

00:34:40 ◼   ► that was sticking, and I'm just thinking to myself,

00:34:42 ◼   ► it's probably for the best that I don't have

00:34:44 ◼   ► my business credit card on me, because I might have

00:34:45 ◼   ► pulled a Marco right then and there, which is--

00:34:48 ◼   ► - I never have problems with the butterfly keyboard.

00:34:50 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, I'm sure I can take compressed air to it,

00:34:52 ◼   ► I didn't have compressed air handy in the passenger compartment.

00:34:54 ◼   ► - He just held his notebook out the window

00:34:56 ◼   ► while they were driving.

00:34:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, right.

00:34:58 ◼   ► - At exactly a 70 degree angle or whatever.

00:34:59 ◼   ► - At a 75 degree angle, yeah.

00:35:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:35:03 ◼   ► - Now, I have to ask you, though, Marco,

00:35:05 ◼   ► these are two interrelated questions.

00:35:07 ◼   ► I was going to ask, do you think this will be the computer

00:35:11 ◼   ► for all trips to the beach, only weekend trips to the beach?

00:35:16 ◼   ► But given that you didn't spec up the RAM to 32 gigs,

00:35:21 ◼   ► I'm guessing that you will use this for brief trips,

00:35:24 ◼   ► but then still use your ridiculous carrying case

00:35:26 ◼   ► for your summer move?

00:35:28 ◼   ► - That is my plan, is like, when I'm out there

00:35:29 ◼   ► for the whole summer, still bringing my desktop,

00:35:32 ◼   ► just because I want a desktop.

00:35:33 ◼   ► I want the giant monitor, I want all the power,

00:35:37 ◼   ► I want no fan noise, I want 100% reliability.

00:35:40 ◼   ► For me, I love having a desktop out there

00:35:42 ◼   ► for that large span, but this will make it so that

00:35:45 ◼   ► I am much happier and more productive

00:35:48 ◼   ► when I'm not going somewhere for two months.

00:35:51 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:35:52 ◼   ► When I'm just going for a weekend or for a week,

00:35:55 ◼   ► or when I'm going other places.

00:35:57 ◼   ► You know, I do, in other parts of the year,

00:35:58 ◼   ► I do go to other places sometimes.

00:36:00 ◼   ► Decreasingly so, maybe, but I still do go.

00:36:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:36:05 ◼   ► For WVDC, there's all sorts of times when I travel

00:36:08 ◼   ► where I need to or want to get work done

00:36:10 ◼   ► that I can't bring my iMac Pro on trips like that,

00:36:14 ◼   ► and this will be wonderful for all of those other trips,

00:36:18 ◼   ► even if I don't use it full time for my big summer move.

00:36:22 ◼   ► - That's fair.

00:36:23 ◼   ► I don't know, I just keep wrestling with,

00:36:26 ◼   ► should I just ditch the iMac entirely

00:36:28 ◼   ► and just get one of these and a monitor,

00:36:29 ◼   ► but we'll see, we'll talk about that in a minute.

00:36:31 ◼   ► Moving on, before we do that,

00:36:33 ◼   ► let's talk about keycap replacement,

00:36:34 ◼   ► and apparently there's news about this.

00:36:39 ◼   ► Peter Wells tweeted at the two of you guys

00:36:42 ◼   ► and said that, he asked about repairability,

00:36:45 ◼   ► and Phil said that if a key gets stuck,

00:36:47 ◼   ► you can pop it off and replace it.

00:36:49 ◼   ► What a novel idea!

00:36:50 ◼   ► - Serviceability, wow!

00:36:52 ◼   ► - And there's a demo video from iFixit demonstrating that.

00:36:56 ◼   ► It basically was like their tear down of the thing

00:36:57 ◼   ► and looking at the keyboard and talking about it,

00:36:58 ◼   ► but they took it apart,

00:37:00 ◼   ► they looked at the mechanism inside it,

00:37:02 ◼   ► and they were comparing it to the Magic Keyboard

00:37:04 ◼   ► and looking at these different pieces,

00:37:05 ◼   ► and lo and behold, not only can you pop off a keycap

00:37:08 ◼   ► and put it back on, what they did was they popped

00:37:10 ◼   ► the keycap off of the Magic Keyboard

00:37:12 ◼   ► and popped it right onto the 16-inch MacBook Pro.

00:37:14 ◼   ► Fits just fine.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Now, the keycaps on the Magic Keyboard

00:37:16 ◼   ► are a little bit taller, like they're thicker, right?

00:37:19 ◼   ► So I probably wouldn't replace all the keycaps

00:37:20 ◼   ► and then close the lid,

00:37:21 ◼   ► 'cause I think they would probably hit into the screen

00:37:23 ◼   ► or whatever, but it just goes to show exactly

00:37:25 ◼   ► how close those mechanisms are to each other,

00:37:27 ◼   ► despite them being different 'cause it's not at an angle

00:37:29 ◼   ► and them having whatever these stabilizing pins,

00:37:31 ◼   ► blah, blah, blah, the fact is,

00:37:32 ◼   ► they popped off like the command key

00:37:34 ◼   ► off of the 16-inch MacBook Pro

00:37:36 ◼   ► and put on the one from the Magic Keyboard.

00:37:38 ◼   ► So there you go, it is as close to the Magic Keyboard

00:37:41 ◼   ► as it can be without being the Magic Keyboard,

00:37:45 ◼   ► and you can indeed open up in a single key

00:37:48 ◼   ► and put it back on.

00:37:48 ◼   ► Now, all that said, as someone, like I said,

00:37:50 ◼   ► who has popped the keycaps off,

00:37:52 ◼   ► I just switched Apple Keyboard and put one back on,

00:37:54 ◼   ► you can screw this up, rest assured.

00:37:56 ◼   ► There are still delicate parts in there.

00:37:58 ◼   ► If you have experience and know how to do it,

00:38:02 ◼   ► you'll be successful, but if you're just like,

00:38:04 ◼   ► I can do this, let me just rip this thing off,

00:38:06 ◼   ► they're very small, tiny pieces of plastic,

00:38:09 ◼   ► and if you bend or break one of those little tiny pieces

00:38:11 ◼   ► of plastic, you need a new tiny piece of plastic,

00:38:13 ◼   ► which is still a possibility for repair,

00:38:15 ◼   ► and that's great and everything,

00:38:16 ◼   ► but don't be too cavalier about ripping your thing apart.

00:38:20 ◼   ► The good thing is that an Apple repair person,

00:38:22 ◼   ► who presumably has vast experience taking off keycaps

00:38:24 ◼   ► and putting them back on, can do this for you,

00:38:26 ◼   ► so yay for repairability.

00:38:28 ◼   ► - John, take me on a trip down memory lane

00:38:30 ◼   ► with regard to mics and getting better over time.

00:38:34 ◼   ► - This is just a thought I had, you know,

00:38:36 ◼   ► thinking about our last discussion

00:38:38 ◼   ► about the improved microphones and speakers

00:38:40 ◼   ► and stuff like that on the MacBook Pros

00:38:42 ◼   ► and how cool it was and how it wasn't really top of mind

00:38:44 ◼   ► 'cause we were all focused on the keyboard

00:38:45 ◼   ► and everything else, but it's a nice surprise.

00:38:48 ◼   ► And I know I've talked about this before on ATP,

00:38:50 ◼   ► but with the show running this long,

00:38:51 ◼   ► I don't feel too bad repeating myself

00:38:53 ◼   ► because two of you have probably forgotten about it

00:38:55 ◼   ► by now too, but I can't remember if I did talk about it,

00:38:58 ◼   ► but I, as an old person, I like to sort of wax nostalgic

00:39:01 ◼   ► about a particular period in the history of the Mac,

00:39:03 ◼   ► like right in the beginning when the Mac first came out,

00:39:06 ◼   ► there was this brief period of time,

00:39:08 ◼   ► well, actually, there was a longer period of time

00:39:09 ◼   ► that you're both familiar with of the PC industry,

00:39:11 ◼   ► but for the Mac specifically,

00:39:12 ◼   ► there was this brief period of time

00:39:14 ◼   ► where the Mac was brand new.

00:39:15 ◼   ► In the beginning, there was one computer,

00:39:16 ◼   ► it was called Macintosh spelled out completely,

00:39:19 ◼   ► and that was it.

00:39:20 ◼   ► There was no qualifiers on that.

00:39:21 ◼   ► There was no designation because what did you need?

00:39:23 ◼   ► It was literally the only one, Macintosh, right?

00:39:26 ◼   ► And then new ones came out, you know, the 512 and the Plus

00:39:28 ◼   ► and the SE and all that stuff, right?

00:39:31 ◼   ► During that initial run of like a new machine would come out

00:39:34 ◼   ► and then another one and then another one,

00:39:35 ◼   ► for a while there, every new Mac that came out

00:39:39 ◼   ► was better than its predecessor in pretty much every way.

00:39:43 ◼   ► And every aspect of the system would get improved

00:39:45 ◼   ► because we were sort of in that era of computing.

00:39:47 ◼   ► The CPU was faster, there were no GPUs,

00:39:49 ◼   ► you don't have to worry about that.

00:39:50 ◼   ► It had more ports, the floppy drive was bigger,

00:39:52 ◼   ► the floppy drive was faster,

00:39:53 ◼   ► the screen was a little bit sharper,

00:39:54 ◼   ► the speakers were a little bit louder,

00:39:56 ◼   ► the sound chip could do, you know, higher kilohertz

00:39:59 ◼   ► or higher bit depth or whatever.

00:40:01 ◼   ► Everything about it was better.

00:40:02 ◼   ► The keyboard was better, the mouse was better.

00:40:04 ◼   ► It was like, and that continued for like three, four,

00:40:07 ◼   ► or five models depending on when things bifurcated

00:40:09 ◼   ► into the Mac too and the color and everything

00:40:10 ◼   ► and how you count that.

00:40:11 ◼   ► And that just, you know,

00:40:14 ◼   ► because that was a formative time in my life

00:40:15 ◼   ► and I was super into the Mac and everything,

00:40:17 ◼   ► it seemed like that's the way computers are.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Every time a new one comes out,

00:40:19 ◼   ► it's better than all the ones that came before it

00:40:22 ◼   ► 'cause why wouldn't it be?

00:40:23 ◼   ► In every aspect that it could be.

00:40:25 ◼   ► Obviously there's some aspects that are the same

00:40:26 ◼   ► or whatever, but there were certainly never any regressions

00:40:28 ◼   ► and in general, if you could touch it

00:40:30 ◼   ► or if it affected your experience with the computer,

00:40:31 ◼   ► it got better.

00:40:32 ◼   ► As we all know now, that has long since not been the case.

00:40:36 ◼   ► New computers come out and they improve

00:40:39 ◼   ► in the few ways that are the most important,

00:40:42 ◼   ► but other parts stay the same for a long time.

00:40:44 ◼   ► And in general, like I was referring to your experience

00:40:47 ◼   ► and our collective experience of the PC industry,

00:40:49 ◼   ► if you were to graph anything having to do

00:40:51 ◼   ► with like the advance of computers in the beginning,

00:40:54 ◼   ► going from like the first personal computers

00:40:56 ◼   ► to maybe like the 2000s or something,

00:40:59 ◼   ► there's this big run up where like every computer

00:41:01 ◼   ► is so much better than the one that came before it,

00:41:03 ◼   ► Moore's Law is in full effect.

00:41:05 ◼   ► You got Weird Al singing parody songs

00:41:07 ◼   ► where the entire premise is the idea that you get a computer

00:41:10 ◼   ► and then before you even take it out of the box,

00:41:12 ◼   ► it's obsolete because some other computer

00:41:14 ◼   ► you can get for the same amount of money

00:41:15 ◼   ► is like twice as fast.

00:41:16 ◼   ► That doesn't happen.

00:41:17 ◼   ► We wait three years now for a computer that's 20% faster.

00:41:19 ◼   ► There's lots of reasons for that.

00:41:20 ◼   ► We're discussing on the show,

00:41:22 ◼   ► but all this is to say is there was a period

00:41:23 ◼   ► where everything seemed like it was improving

00:41:26 ◼   ► and there was an expectation from the consumer

00:41:28 ◼   ► and an excitement from the consumer

00:41:29 ◼   ► that if I get a new computer,

00:41:31 ◼   ► of course the speakers are gonna be better.

00:41:32 ◼   ► Of course the microphones are gonna be better

00:41:34 ◼   ► 'cause this is this year's model

00:41:35 ◼   ► and that was last year's model

00:41:36 ◼   ► and this year they have a way to make

00:41:38 ◼   ► insert component here better

00:41:39 ◼   ► and the speakers and the microphone

00:41:41 ◼   ► are things that I interact with so they should be better.

00:41:43 ◼   ► In our modern era, especially on the Mac line,

00:41:46 ◼   ► we accept the idea that, for example,

00:41:49 ◼   ► the webcam as we call it, which is a ridiculous name,

00:41:51 ◼   ► the front facing camera on our Apple laptops

00:41:55 ◼   ► will just go years and years without getting better

00:41:57 ◼   ► and not because it's reached any kind of limit.

00:41:59 ◼   ► Very often the camera is poor quality and low resolution

00:42:02 ◼   ► and has bad dynamic range and the lens is not great

00:42:06 ◼   ► and but every year we're not like,

00:42:09 ◼   ► I can't believe they didn't upgrade the camera this year.

00:42:10 ◼   ► We don't even mention it 'cause it's one of those things

00:42:12 ◼   ► that we consider to be in stasis.

00:42:14 ◼   ► Now you could say that's because it's good enough,

00:42:15 ◼   ► but honestly, it's not good enough.

00:42:17 ◼   ► Like if you look at the front facing camera of the phone,

00:42:20 ◼   ► which itself doesn't change every single time

00:42:22 ◼   ► to be fantastically better, but it does try to keep pace.

00:42:26 ◼   ► The front facing camera on the iPhone

00:42:27 ◼   ► has been improving albeit more slowly.

00:42:29 ◼   ► And so our discussion of the mic and speaker has made me

00:42:33 ◼   ► reflect on how, not how complacent,

00:42:37 ◼   ► but how I've gotten used to the idea

00:42:38 ◼   ► that certain things don't change.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Even when we, you know, we touched on this last week

00:42:42 ◼   ► saying like, oh, now we can get back to lobbying

00:42:45 ◼   ► for a face ID on Macs or whatever.

00:42:47 ◼   ► I would like to see, one of the things I would like to see

00:42:50 ◼   ► now that now we're getting everything we want,

00:42:52 ◼   ► you know, we want even more in the sort of revival

00:42:55 ◼   ► of the Mac is exactly what they just demonstrated

00:42:57 ◼   ► on the 16 inch MacBook Pro.

00:42:58 ◼   ► An improvement to systems that we had basically given up on.

00:43:02 ◼   ► Like Marco says, he wasn't even thinking about

00:43:04 ◼   ► laptop speakers being better.

00:43:05 ◼   ► And the microphone,

00:43:07 ◼   ► who ever thought about that getting better?

00:43:09 ◼   ► And now, you know, it's reawoken me and say, yeah,

00:43:12 ◼   ► why shouldn't the front facing camera on laptops be better

00:43:16 ◼   ► every once in a while?

00:43:18 ◼   ► When's the last time that changed?

00:43:20 ◼   ► I, you know, and you think, oh, you don't use it that much.

00:43:21 ◼   ► I actually use it all the time.

00:43:23 ◼   ► When I'm like teleconferencing with people

00:43:25 ◼   ► who are in different geographic regions of my company,

00:43:28 ◼   ► I'm using video.

00:43:29 ◼   ► And what's, what video?

00:43:30 ◼   ► The camera that's in my computer.

00:43:32 ◼   ► It affects like how I present myself to my coworkers.

00:43:36 ◼   ► And if it can handle the darkness in the room

00:43:38 ◼   ► or it keeps changing, like it's exposure level,

00:43:41 ◼   ► 'cause it's getting confused by like bright light

00:43:42 ◼   ► coming through the window or whatever.

00:43:44 ◼   ► And the same thing with the microphone.

00:43:45 ◼   ► I found, I sound echoey and distant and you know,

00:43:47 ◼   ► those are all things that can and should be improved.

00:43:51 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:43:52 ◼   ► I don't know what my point here is,

00:43:53 ◼   ► except that I am now ready for more changes

00:43:56 ◼   ► like the one that is half in the 16 inch.

00:43:57 ◼   ► So I'm happy that Apple did that

00:43:59 ◼   ► and they should be a little bit scared that they did it

00:44:01 ◼   ► because now I'm just getting more demanding.

00:44:04 ◼   ► - This is one of the things that I'm so,

00:44:07 ◼   ► I'm so happy to be back to this now.

00:44:09 ◼   ► Like for these last few years where we've had the keyboard

00:44:14 ◼   ► being this huge problem for a lot of people

00:44:16 ◼   ► and being this huge thing that we hated,

00:44:19 ◼   ► it was hard to look at anything else about the laptops

00:44:23 ◼   ► and to really have a wishlist

00:44:25 ◼   ► or to really be able to focus on like,

00:44:28 ◼   ► how else could they make technology get better

00:44:30 ◼   ► and how else could they improve these things

00:44:32 ◼   ► that we use every day?

00:44:33 ◼   ► Because there was this huge,

00:44:34 ◼   ► it was like when your house is on fire,

00:44:37 ◼   ► literally if your house is on fire,

00:44:39 ◼   ► it's really hard to look at the bathroom

00:44:41 ◼   ► and be like, I'd like to remodel this.

00:44:42 ◼   ► Like it's like you have to deal with the fire first, right?

00:44:46 ◼   ► And so now, you know, the keyboard fire is being put out.

00:44:50 ◼   ► On the big one, it's already out.

00:44:51 ◼   ► It's gonna be put out on the smaller ones, we hope soon.

00:44:55 ◼   ► So like now that the fire is being put out,

00:44:57 ◼   ► it allows us to then finally revisit anything else about it,

00:45:02 ◼   ► anything else besides like the primary input mechanism

00:45:06 ◼   ► being incredibly controversial

00:45:08 ◼   ► and having a high failure rate, right?

00:45:10 ◼   ► So I am very much looking forward

00:45:13 ◼   ► to a return to that kind of normalcy.

00:45:15 ◼   ► And yeah, there's a bunch of stuff

00:45:17 ◼   ► that I don't think they've advanced enough in recent years.

00:45:20 ◼   ► 'Cause you know, who knows what they were doing?

00:45:23 ◼   ► Regardless, you know, their heads weren't on right

00:45:25 ◼   ► for a while and it seems like now they put them back on.

00:45:29 ◼   ► And so I would love things like,

00:45:31 ◼   ► as I mentioned before, cellular.

00:45:34 ◼   ► And I think there might be some movement there.

00:45:36 ◼   ► I mean, we'll get to this.

00:45:37 ◼   ► There was a thing somewhere on a document

00:45:39 ◼   ► that I saw about that.

00:45:39 ◼   ► But like I think it is long past time

00:45:42 ◼   ► to have cellular on laptops.

00:45:44 ◼   ► PC laptops have had it for a decade.

00:45:47 ◼   ► I don't know why Apple has resisted so far.

00:45:49 ◼   ► I've been told that there have been good reasons.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I'm sure there are good reasons,

00:45:53 ◼   ► but that doesn't mean they're insurmountable.

00:45:55 ◼   ► If there is enough of a will,

00:45:56 ◼   ► they can get past things that have good reasons.

00:45:59 ◼   ► Other stuff, like, you know, as John said,

00:46:01 ◼   ► is this the best webcam that we can have, really?

00:46:03 ◼   ► 'Cause the webcam on it is still really crappy

00:46:06 ◼   ► compared to-- - Stop calling it webcam.

00:46:08 ◼   ► - Sorry, the FaceTime camera-- - Front-facing camera.

00:46:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, the front-facing camera is still really crappy.

00:46:14 ◼   ► It hasn't advanced at all in a very long time.

00:46:17 ◼   ► The front-facing camera on iPhones is way better

00:46:19 ◼   ► than the one on a $2400 MacBook Pro,

00:46:22 ◼   ► and I'm not sure that's right.

00:46:24 ◼   ► I know there's different depths and everything.

00:46:26 ◼   ► There's different price things, but--

00:46:29 ◼   ► - We just wanna see progress, like--

00:46:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I still don't think we've solved

00:46:32 ◼   ► the ports and SD card problem, really.

00:46:35 ◼   ► We've kinda kicked the can down the road a little bit,

00:46:38 ◼   ► but the problem is still there.

00:46:39 ◼   ► I still think that the ports that are on the laptop

00:46:42 ◼   ► should be such that most people don't need a single dongle,

00:46:45 ◼   ► and I don't think we've reached that point.

00:46:47 ◼   ► There's all sorts of things that I think we can improve.

00:46:50 ◼   ► I think battery life can always be improved,

00:46:53 ◼   ► and we are just now, I think we are barely

00:46:57 ◼   ► on the right side of that, where most people,

00:47:01 ◼   ► most of the time, will have just barely enough battery life,

00:47:05 ◼   ► but I think we can do better than that,

00:47:07 ◼   ► and there's still too many cases where you have

00:47:09 ◼   ► to be really careful, otherwise you won't have

00:47:11 ◼   ► any battery life, and I still think we need software support

00:47:14 ◼   ► for things like a true low-power mode for Mac OS,

00:47:17 ◼   ► which I blogged about a year or two ago,

00:47:19 ◼   ► but I still think, give us a low-power mode

00:47:22 ◼   ► that can disable turbo boost, that can turn off

00:47:25 ◼   ► spotlight indexing and photo analysis,

00:47:27 ◼   ► and a whole bunch of other power-sucking things on Mac OS,

00:47:31 ◼   ► that if you need to get through a six-hour flight

00:47:34 ◼   ► and actually be doing something like Xcode

00:47:37 ◼   ► or something that's actually taxing the battery,

00:47:39 ◼   ► and you have no power on that flight,

00:47:41 ◼   ► you can put your laptop in low-power mode

00:47:43 ◼   ► and be relatively confident that you'll make it.

00:47:46 ◼   ► There's all sorts of stuff like this,

00:47:47 ◼   ► and for so long, the tech industry has been so focused

00:47:51 ◼   ► on what's next, what else, what's the future of computing,

00:47:55 ◼   ► in the way that they kind of have declared laptop

00:48:00 ◼   ► and desktop-style computing as dead,

00:48:02 ◼   ► but we're all still doing it every single day

00:48:06 ◼   ► for much or all of our work.

00:48:09 ◼   ► So I think it's about time for not only Apple,

00:48:13 ◼   ► but for much of the industry to refocus

00:48:15 ◼   ► on the kind of regular or old-style computer,

00:48:19 ◼   ► and be like, "How can we bring this forward?

00:48:21 ◼   ► "How much can we put into this?"

00:48:23 ◼   ► For a while, we thought this was the past, this was done.

00:48:27 ◼   ► Turns out, tablets and phones and everything

00:48:29 ◼   ► were mostly additive, and all these computers

00:48:32 ◼   ► that we all thought were done aren't done.

00:48:34 ◼   ► We're all still using them.

00:48:35 ◼   ► So let's keep moving them forward.

00:48:37 ◼   ► - I think the PC industry has actually been moving forward

00:48:39 ◼   ► on all of these trends, 'cause the PC industry

00:48:40 ◼   ► is not just one company.

00:48:41 ◼   ► It's like one company fades, another company rises.

00:48:44 ◼   ► There's lots of innovation there.

00:48:46 ◼   ► You see what people--

00:48:47 ◼   ► - I guess it is mostly an Apple problem.

00:48:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, so obviously we're mostly focusing on Apple,

00:48:50 ◼   ► but that's just the nature of a single company

00:48:53 ◼   ► versus an entire rest of the industry,

00:48:55 ◼   ► because if a particular company stops really trying

00:49:00 ◼   ► to sell PC notebooks, someone else will come

00:49:04 ◼   ► and eat their lunch, whereas Apple stops really trying,

00:49:06 ◼   ► because they have such a differentiator with the OS

00:49:08 ◼   ► and the whole platform and all the other things

00:49:09 ◼   ► that we've talked about, there's less competition,

00:49:14 ◼   ► there's less pressure on them to change.

00:49:16 ◼   ► So they can leave the camera on their laptop the same

00:49:20 ◼   ► for five years, six years, how long has it been the same?

00:49:23 ◼   ► And no competitor is going to steal that customer,

00:49:25 ◼   ► because no one else sells Mac laptops.

00:49:28 ◼   ► - It does make me happy, as you mentioned earlier, Marco,

00:49:30 ◼   ► it makes me happy that we are now finding these sorts

00:49:33 ◼   ► of things to grumble about, rather than one

00:49:37 ◼   ► of the two primary input mechanisms for the computer

00:49:40 ◼   ► not working very reliably.

00:49:42 ◼   ► Like this is definitely a bad--

00:49:43 ◼   ► - I had a terrible flash earlier today about thinking

00:49:46 ◼   ► of like, wouldn't it be funny/horrifying

00:49:49 ◼   ► if the next thing was that a Mac laptop came out

00:49:51 ◼   ► and the trackpad was unreliable?

00:49:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, imagine how bad that would be, John.

00:49:56 ◼   ► We're gonna talk about that in a minute.

00:49:57 ◼   ► - No, not the external one, and that's a software problem,

00:50:00 ◼   ► anyway, probably.

00:50:01 ◼   ► - It's like, imagine if an iPad, every iPad that came out

00:50:06 ◼   ► for three and a half years, one minute out of every hour,

00:50:09 ◼   ► it just wouldn't recognize touches.

00:50:11 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:50:12 ◼   ► And they kept releasing iPads for three years,

00:50:14 ◼   ► they kept doing that.

00:50:16 ◼   ► - Didn't the iPhone 4, one of them had like a flex cable

00:50:18 ◼   ► issue where it would have, it was like home button disease

00:50:21 ◼   ► or something where like the cable would disconnect

00:50:23 ◼   ► from like the touch sensor and it would stop accepting

00:50:25 ◼   ► touch input or something.

00:50:27 ◼   ► - iPhone 6, I believe.

00:50:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, whatever it was, that was like a one-time problem,

00:50:30 ◼   ► they fixed it by like fixing the cable or whatever,

00:50:32 ◼   ► but yeah, stuff like that happens occasionally,

00:50:34 ◼   ► but yeah, it's just, hopefully none of them will be

00:50:36 ◼   ► this kind of long nightmare where it's like,

00:50:38 ◼   ► well, the trackpad works most of the time,

00:50:40 ◼   ► occasionally you'll swipe on it and the cursor will move,

00:50:42 ◼   ► but that happens in like one out of every 10,000 swipes,

00:50:44 ◼   ► not a big deal and we'd all just slowly be going mad

00:50:46 ◼   ► over the next three years.

00:50:48 ◼   ► - No, thank you.

00:50:50 ◼   ► Marco, you made mention of somewhere in the document

00:50:52 ◼   ► there was some sort of chatter about cellular laptops,

00:50:54 ◼   ► so guess what, it is right after what we just covered.

00:50:57 ◼   ► So John, tell me about Lakefield System on a Chip

00:51:01 ◼   ► and cellular laptops, please.

00:51:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's an article from Anand Tech

00:51:04 ◼   ► talking about some new Intel chips that incorporate

00:51:07 ◼   ► some cellular tech in them and the article talks about

00:51:10 ◼   ► a particular model of some Samsung thing and it says like,

00:51:13 ◼   ► you know, you could always put cellular in x86 notebooks,

00:51:16 ◼   ► but then you gotta put separate chips and take more power

00:51:18 ◼   ► and of course they cost more money or whatever,

00:51:20 ◼   ► so here's something from Intel to make it easier

00:51:23 ◼   ► for you to efficiently and presumably less expensively

00:51:27 ◼   ► put cellular in a laptop and again, PC laptops

00:51:31 ◼   ► said cellular forever, this is just something

00:51:32 ◼   ► making it easier, but it's making me think that regardless

00:51:35 ◼   ► of which direction Apple goes, we keep talking about

00:51:37 ◼   ► their arm transition, if and when that's ever going

00:51:39 ◼   ► to happen and of course if it did, you would presume

00:51:41 ◼   ► that bringing cellular along with that would be really easy

00:51:44 ◼   ► because Apple has a lot of experience making very powerful

00:51:46 ◼   ► system on chips based on the arm architecture

00:51:48 ◼   ► which have cellular capability, even though they also

00:51:50 ◼   ► have separate chips and yada yada yada, but anyway,

00:51:52 ◼   ► even if they stick to Intel, it seems like Intel

00:51:55 ◼   ► has products in the pipe that could help some

00:51:58 ◼   ► of Apple's laptops have cellular capability

00:52:02 ◼   ► with more power savings and less expense than even before,

00:52:05 ◼   ► so the number of excuses for Apple not to have cellular

00:52:08 ◼   ► continues to dwindle.

00:52:09 ◼   ► - Which is good news.

00:52:10 ◼   ► You know, and just to hopefully get in front of all

00:52:13 ◼   ► the people that are going to write us and say,

00:52:14 ◼   ► well why don't you tether?

00:52:16 ◼   ► Having done that in the car today, let me tell you,

00:52:19 ◼   ► it is not fun, I know we cover this a lot,

00:52:20 ◼   ► but people always ask, well why don't you just tether?

00:52:24 ◼   ► - Tethering sucks.

00:52:25 ◼   ► - It's not nearly as convenient, it is way more convenient

00:52:29 ◼   ► to turn the machine on and instantly have a connection

00:52:32 ◼   ► of its own rather than having to wait for it to realize

00:52:35 ◼   ► it doesn't have a connection and then wait for it

00:52:37 ◼   ► to realize you have a phone nearby, and then often

00:52:40 ◼   ► but not always, it will be smart enough to offer you,

00:52:43 ◼   ► in Catalina anyway, offer you that connection on your phone

00:52:46 ◼   ► or even on Mojave, you could go into the WiFi menu

00:52:49 ◼   ► and drop down and grab your phone from the list,

00:52:52 ◼   ► but that's still many more steps.

00:52:54 ◼   ► You're now depleting two different batteries.

00:52:56 ◼   ► It's just not as darn convenient, and I don't understand

00:52:59 ◼   ► why people get such a burr up their butts

00:53:01 ◼   ► about us not liking tethering.

00:53:03 ◼   ► Yes, I do tether a lot on my laptop,

00:53:06 ◼   ► but if I could, I would love to have a cellular laptop.

00:53:10 ◼   ► And so I really don't enjoy people constantly saying,

00:53:15 ◼   ► oh, it's just tether.

00:53:16 ◼   ► Yes, we get it, we don't want to, that's the whole point.

00:53:20 ◼   ► - Well, and just because a solution is good enough for you

00:53:24 ◼   ► doesn't mean that no one could possibly want a better one

00:53:27 ◼   ► for themselves and for their needs and priorities, right?

00:53:31 ◼   ► When people say just tether, they're saying it defensively

00:53:34 ◼   ► because they just tether and it's fine for them,

00:53:37 ◼   ► so why can't it be fine for us?

00:53:39 ◼   ► And again, this is something that a lot of people

00:53:42 ◼   ► never understand, but just because you don't need something

00:53:45 ◼   ► doesn't mean that no one needs it, right?

00:53:48 ◼   ► Or just because your priorities say this is fine

00:53:51 ◼   ► doesn't mean that other people would make the same choice.

00:53:53 ◼   ► And in the case of tethering, yeah, tethering is fine

00:53:56 ◼   ► if it's your only option, which currently for laptops

00:53:59 ◼   ► made by Apple, it is.

00:54:00 ◼   ► But when we went from, we're all old enough,

00:54:05 ◼   ► everyone listening, we're all old enough, the three of us,

00:54:07 ◼   ► to have been around when broadband came out

00:54:11 ◼   ► and more importantly, to have been around

00:54:12 ◼   ► before broadband came out.

00:54:14 ◼   ► And one of the big changes that happened

00:54:17 ◼   ► when you went from dial-up to broadband,

00:54:21 ◼   ► yes, it did get a ton faster,

00:54:23 ◼   ► but it was also always connected.

00:54:26 ◼   ► You were just always online.

00:54:28 ◼   ► Your computer was just always online,

00:54:30 ◼   ► as opposed to having to go to a thing in your menu bar

00:54:34 ◼   ► or whatever and say, "Connect to the internet, please,"

00:54:37 ◼   ► wait a few seconds, and then have it connect.

00:54:39 ◼   ► That's exactly what tethering is.

00:54:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it, yeah, yeah.

00:54:43 ◼   ► - That's literally exactly what it is.

00:54:45 ◼   ► You are, you're basically doing modern-day dial-up.

00:54:48 ◼   ► You are having to go to your menu and go to the thing

00:54:50 ◼   ► and say, "Dial up with my phone, please,"

00:54:52 ◼   ► like, "Tether with my phone, please,"

00:54:54 ◼   ► and wait a few seconds, and then you're on.

00:54:56 ◼   ► It is totally different to be out there in the world

00:55:00 ◼   ► and to pick up your iPad or your iPhone with cellular

00:55:03 ◼   ► and to just be online.

00:55:05 ◼   ► You're just on, that's it.

00:55:08 ◼   ► You just open it up and it's online.

00:55:11 ◼   ► Simple as that.

00:55:12 ◼   ► Totally different way of operating.

00:55:14 ◼   ► And that is why I want this in a MacBook.

00:55:18 ◼   ► There are so many times where I will take my iPad

00:55:20 ◼   ► out into the world instead of a laptop,

00:55:23 ◼   ► primarily because of cellular,

00:55:25 ◼   ► because it's just easier, it's just always on,

00:55:27 ◼   ► it's just there, right?

00:55:29 ◼   ► I want that for the Mac as well,

00:55:31 ◼   ► and it totally transforms the way you use a portable device,

00:55:35 ◼   ► whether it can have cellular or not.

00:55:37 ◼   ► And yeah, not everybody will pick that option,

00:55:38 ◼   ► not everybody will wanna have the extra plan or whatever.

00:55:40 ◼   ► It's fine, but you know what, a lot of us will.

00:55:42 ◼   ► We know that because the PC world has had these

00:55:45 ◼   ► for a decade, people buy them.

00:55:47 ◼   ► It's like, this is not a hypothetical.

00:55:50 ◼   ► It's been around for a long time, and people buy them.

00:55:54 ◼   ► And any argument you could possibly make

00:55:57 ◼   ► about why the MacBook Pro shouldn't have cellular available.

00:56:00 ◼   ► You can say the exact thing about the iPad.

00:56:02 ◼   ► And the iPad has had cellular on literally every model

00:56:05 ◼   ► they offer since day one, almost 10 years ago.

00:56:07 ◼   ► So clearly, there's some reason why they haven't

00:56:11 ◼   ► wanted to put it on a Mac yet,

00:56:12 ◼   ► but clearly it should be there if they can do it.

00:56:15 ◼   ► And I just hope the time that they can do it is coming,

00:56:18 ◼   ► because the need has not gone away,

00:56:20 ◼   ► the need never will go away, and it's well past time.

00:56:24 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:56:25 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by Fracture,

00:56:27 ◼   ► who prints your photos in vivid color directly onto glass.

00:56:30 ◼   ► Go to fractureme.com/atp for a special discount

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00:56:39 ◼   ► we take the picture, it looks great on our phone,

00:56:41 ◼   ► we post it online maybe, and then that's it,

00:56:43 ◼   ► we never see it again.

00:56:44 ◼   ► After a day, it's off the timeline.

00:56:46 ◼   ► You almost never actually get those photos printed,

00:56:49 ◼   ► and very few of them ever end up on display

00:56:51 ◼   ► for you to actually enjoy.

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00:57:05 ◼   ► It looks awesome.

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00:57:11 ◼   ► of a thin piece of glass, and kind of adhered to

00:57:13 ◼   ► like a piece of foam core to help you be able

00:57:15 ◼   ► to mount it into something.

00:57:16 ◼   ► And so it's this beautiful, thin, edge to edge,

00:57:19 ◼   ► very lightweight, complete thing.

00:57:21 ◼   ► You don't frame it or anything, it comes and that's it.

00:57:24 ◼   ► It's totally its own unit.

00:57:25 ◼   ► You don't have to get anything else for it.

00:57:28 ◼   ► It even comes with the wall hanger in the box,

00:57:30 ◼   ► so you really don't have to get anything else for it.

00:57:31 ◼   ► It's ready to display right out of the box.

00:57:33 ◼   ► And these prints look good on any decor,

00:57:35 ◼   ► 'cause they're just little rectangles of glass

00:57:37 ◼   ► that have your wonderful pictures on them.

00:57:39 ◼   ► And we've used them, we have them all over our house.

00:57:41 ◼   ► I have them in the office here.

00:57:42 ◼   ► We actually make a little Fracture print square

00:57:45 ◼   ► for any new podcast that we do.

00:57:48 ◼   ► My wife and I, so there's like six or seven

00:57:49 ◼   ► of them around the office right now.

00:57:51 ◼   ► We give them as gifts, they make fantastic gifts.

00:57:53 ◼   ► 'Cause photos are great gifts and photo prints

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00:58:26 ◼   ► for wonderful glass photo prints.

00:58:27 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Fracture for giving us lots of gifts

00:58:30 ◼   ► to give to people, decorating our house,

00:58:32 ◼   ► and sponsoring our show.

00:58:33 ◼   ► - Tell me about the Motorola Razr.

00:58:38 ◼   ► So when I was a young lad, I had a Motorola Razr

00:58:43 ◼   ► and I loved that thing.

00:58:45 ◼   ► I thought it was amazing.

00:58:46 ◼   ► And apparently there's a new one now?

00:58:49 ◼   ► - Speaking of cellular, we talked about,

00:58:52 ◼   ► I think last show or a couple of shows,

00:58:54 ◼   ► we were talking about foldable phones,

00:58:55 ◼   ► but they're regular sized phones,

00:58:57 ◼   ► but they fold the other way, like a flip phone,

00:58:59 ◼   ► like the Motorola Razr.

00:59:00 ◼   ► Well, Motorola being the savvy slash desperate business

00:59:04 ◼   ► that it is, has a lot of brand equity in the Razr.

00:59:06 ◼   ► Lots of people have fond memories of their Razrs,

00:59:08 ◼   ► as does Casey, I imagine,

00:59:10 ◼   ► 'cause it was a cool, thin flip phone, right?

00:59:12 ◼   ► - It's the only phone Motorola is remembered for.

00:59:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, there's also the StarTAC and stuff,

00:59:17 ◼   ► but there's a lot of brand equity in this, right?

00:59:20 ◼   ► Unfortunately, the brand equity and everything about it

00:59:22 ◼   ► is wrapped up in the idea that it is a thin phone

00:59:24 ◼   ► that folds in the way that a Razr folds, right?

00:59:27 ◼   ► So they are making a foldable phone

00:59:30 ◼   ► that is very much like the size and shape and proportions

00:59:34 ◼   ► of the original Razr, except that when you open it up,

00:59:36 ◼   ► ta-da, OLED screen, a bendy OLED screen is inside there.

00:59:40 ◼   ► And it's got one camera that is facing you when it's closed

00:59:43 ◼   ► and is facing away from you when it's open.

00:59:44 ◼   ► And it's got a chin, just like the Razr

00:59:45 ◼   ► and the whole nine yards.

00:59:46 ◼   ► There's even a weird nostalgia mode

00:59:48 ◼   ► where it will put on the screen graphics

00:59:50 ◼   ► that look like the old Razr number pad

00:59:53 ◼   ► and stuff above it and everything.

00:59:54 ◼   ► I'm not sure if this is a good phone,

00:59:58 ◼   ► but this is more or less exactly what I was talking about

01:00:01 ◼   ► in terms of making a phone that really does fold to be small

01:00:06 ◼   ► and is fun to flip open and close.

01:00:08 ◼   ► So this is as good an attempt at that

01:00:13 ◼   ► as I can possibly imagine,

01:00:14 ◼   ► because it's got the brand equity,

01:00:15 ◼   ► it's got the good feelings and nostalgia associated with it.

01:00:19 ◼   ► The size and shape and form factor are nice

01:00:21 ◼   ► in that they are very much like the thing that it is aping,

01:00:24 ◼   ► but also are reasonable for a modern phone when it's open.

01:00:28 ◼   ► Like it's not a ridiculous size and shape phone.

01:00:30 ◼   ► It's not really skinny or really broad or whatever.

01:00:34 ◼   ► The chin is a little weird, but this phone intrigues me.

01:00:38 ◼   ► Obviously the folding part is the most difficult part

01:00:40 ◼   ► and you still have the problems of if the screen dies

01:00:42 ◼   ► 'cause of the folding.

01:00:43 ◼   ► And if you look at the hinge,

01:00:44 ◼   ► it's very similar to the other one.

01:00:45 ◼   ► So I'm not sure if this is gonna stand up to heavy use

01:00:49 ◼   ► or how delicate it's gonna be or whatever.

01:00:51 ◼   ► And whether the usefulness of being able to make it

01:00:55 ◼   ► that small makes that much of a difference.

01:00:57 ◼   ► The biggest enemy of the Sony is probably the degree

01:01:01 ◼   ► to which our world and society has accommodated phones.

01:01:06 ◼   ► I know on women's clothing,

01:01:08 ◼   ► there continues to be a very terrible lack

01:01:11 ◼   ► of reasonable size pockets.

01:01:14 ◼   ► But in general, I think the trend in clothing for everybody

01:01:17 ◼   ► is for the pockets to either A, start existing

01:01:20 ◼   ► on a woman's clothing if you're lucky,

01:01:21 ◼   ► and B, be big enough to accommodate a smartphone

01:01:26 ◼   ► because we all do have smartphones.

01:01:29 ◼   ► And if we buy a piece of clothing

01:01:30 ◼   ► and find that our smartphones don't fit

01:01:32 ◼   ► in any of the pockets, we will not have good feelings

01:01:35 ◼   ► about that piece of clothing.

01:01:37 ◼   ► So maybe the time of this phone has actually already passed

01:01:41 ◼   ► and we don't need anything to get that small,

01:01:42 ◼   ► but maybe it will appeal to people who still think phones

01:01:45 ◼   ► are too large and awkward in their pockets.

01:01:48 ◼   ► So I thought this was, to me,

01:01:52 ◼   ► this is the most interesting folding phone that I've seen.

01:01:54 ◼   ► Not that I wanna buy one,

01:01:55 ◼   ► but I want other people to buy them and see if they like it.

01:01:58 ◼   ► - I don't think it's actually what anybody wants.

01:02:01 ◼   ► It's a cool nostalgia thing,

01:02:03 ◼   ► but I don't think you're really solving a problem

01:02:07 ◼   ► that people have by having the phone fold

01:02:10 ◼   ► and get really thick.

01:02:11 ◼   ► But the Razer isn't that thick.

01:02:13 ◼   ► That's what I like about it, is that it is,

01:02:14 ◼   ► the whole thing with the Razer is,

01:02:15 ◼   ► look, can you believe how thin this phone is?

01:02:17 ◼   ► And this foldy one is also thinner

01:02:20 ◼   ► than you would expect a folding phone to be.

01:02:22 ◼   ► It's not thin, right?

01:02:23 ◼   ► It's still thick, right?

01:02:24 ◼   ► But-- - I don't know.

01:02:26 ◼   ► Do people really need their phone to get shorter

01:02:29 ◼   ► just in that one dimension but twice as thick?

01:02:32 ◼   ► It doesn't seem like that's the right dimension

01:02:35 ◼   ► to be folding on.

01:02:36 ◼   ► Not to mention, of course,

01:02:37 ◼   ► I don't think for a second this is gonna work.

01:02:39 ◼   ► I don't think for a second this screen

01:02:40 ◼   ► is gonna be durable and the hinge--

01:02:42 ◼   ► - The durability, yeah.

01:02:43 ◼   ► - No, I think we're nowhere near the point

01:02:44 ◼   ► where anybody has solved that.

01:02:46 ◼   ► So the fact, so I don't think for a moment

01:02:48 ◼   ► this is going to last more than three flips

01:02:50 ◼   ► before you have a bubble on your screen or whatever.

01:02:53 ◼   ► But even assuming that it did,

01:02:55 ◼   ► I don't think this is solving a problem

01:02:57 ◼   ► people really have today.

01:02:59 ◼   ► - I mean, I know people do have problems

01:03:01 ◼   ► with phones in pockets, because I do.

01:03:03 ◼   ► I have, there are certain pants that I wear

01:03:05 ◼   ► that the phone fits okay in one pocket,

01:03:08 ◼   ► but if it's in another pocket, I can't sit down

01:03:09 ◼   ► 'cause I'm afraid it's gonna bend

01:03:11 ◼   ► or get damaged in some way.

01:03:12 ◼   ► And I have relatively big man pockets.

01:03:17 ◼   ► Women's clothing that has either fake pockets

01:03:19 ◼   ► or ridiculously small pockets,

01:03:20 ◼   ► maybe this is literally the only phone

01:03:22 ◼   ► that will fit in one of those pockets,

01:03:23 ◼   ► because the problem is usually pocket depth,

01:03:25 ◼   ► and also how much it stretches out.

01:03:28 ◼   ► Anyway, I don't know.

01:03:30 ◼   ► Like I said, I don't think this is a super pressing problem

01:03:32 ◼   ► or more people would have been making smaller phones

01:03:34 ◼   ► to begin with, and the trend is the opposite direction.

01:03:36 ◼   ► And it could be that one of the reasons big phones

01:03:40 ◼   ► became so popular is people find a place in their life

01:03:43 ◼   ► for the big phone, whether they put it in their purse

01:03:44 ◼   ► or they put it in their backpack

01:03:47 ◼   ► or have an inside pocket on their coat or something.

01:03:49 ◼   ► But I'm still intrigued by the idea,

01:03:52 ◼   ► because the sort of monoculture of all phones

01:03:56 ◼   ► being basically the same size and shape

01:03:58 ◼   ► and us trying to accommodate them,

01:03:59 ◼   ► I do find it a little awkward,

01:04:00 ◼   ► because there's really no good place for an item that large

01:04:04 ◼   ► in any of the typical pants pockets that people might have,

01:04:09 ◼   ► and so it ends up going in a bag or something like that.

01:04:11 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:04:12 ◼   ► It's a problem I kind of sort of have,

01:04:14 ◼   ► so that's why I'm not entirely willing to dismiss it,

01:04:16 ◼   ► but I think you're right about the durability,

01:04:17 ◼   ► and this is the first attempt at this,

01:04:20 ◼   ► and I'm sure it's gonna be a little wonky.

01:04:22 ◼   ► We'll see.

01:04:23 ◼   ► - Also, I just think the fold state is too thick.

01:04:26 ◼   ► I don't think people are actually going to want that.

01:04:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe.

01:04:30 ◼   ► I was trying to look for what the measurements are.

01:04:32 ◼   ► It doesn't look to me as thick as the Galaxy Fold,

01:04:34 ◼   ► like that's what I'm comparing it to in my mind.

01:04:35 ◼   ► I'm comparing it to other folding phones,

01:04:37 ◼   ► and it also doesn't look so thick

01:04:38 ◼   ► that I think it would stretch out your pocket uncomfortably,

01:04:40 ◼   ► and it's like, well, it fits fine depth-wise,

01:04:42 ◼   ► but it's so thick, and of course I say

01:04:44 ◼   ► this is someone with a giant wallet,

01:04:45 ◼   ► so maybe I'm not the best judge.

01:04:47 ◼   ► (both laughing)

01:04:49 ◼   ► - That wallet is gigantic.

01:04:51 ◼   ► All right, let's finish up, follow up, hopefully,

01:04:54 ◼   ► and let's talk about my Catalina problems.

01:04:56 ◼   ► So if you recall, I got my iMac back a month ago,

01:05:01 ◼   ► and then pretty much immediately put Catalina on it,

01:05:05 ◼   ► after I'd gotten back from Disney World,

01:05:06 ◼   ► which is just briefly after,

01:05:08 ◼   ► and shortly after putting Catalina on it,

01:05:12 ◼   ► I started, and this is an upgrade from Mojave,

01:05:14 ◼   ► I started noticing that my trackpad,

01:05:17 ◼   ► which is my primary pointing device these days,

01:05:19 ◼   ► would occasionally just ignore my input,

01:05:22 ◼   ► and it would ignore clicks,

01:05:24 ◼   ► and eventually those clicks would find their way

01:05:26 ◼   ► to the trackpad, and it would be like a machine gun.

01:05:28 ◼   ► It would (imitates gun firing) and fire all these clicks

01:05:31 ◼   ► all basically at once.

01:05:33 ◼   ► And I asked, are people seeing this,

01:05:34 ◼   ► or is it just me, and am I crazy?

01:05:36 ◼   ► And oh my goodness, apparently I am very not crazy,

01:05:40 ◼   ► or at least not for this reason anyway.

01:05:42 ◼   ► And a lot of people reached out via Twitter and said,

01:05:45 ◼   ► oh yes, not only are they having latency issues

01:05:49 ◼   ► with their Apple mice, but a handful of people

01:05:52 ◼   ► actually said that other brands, especially Logitech,

01:05:55 ◼   ► Bluetooth mice, were having latency problems.

01:05:57 ◼   ► And then one person, Will Bishop on Twitter,

01:06:00 ◼   ► wrote in to say that he has had the machine gun issue

01:06:04 ◼   ► on his MacBook Pro's touchpad, which is deeply alarming.

01:06:09 ◼   ► So I don't know what's going on here.

01:06:12 ◼   ► I still maintain that I feel like it's a software problem

01:06:15 ◼   ► based on no facts and just gut feeling,

01:06:17 ◼   ► but I don't know what to do about this,

01:06:19 ◼   ► and it's really, really bothering me.

01:06:21 ◼   ► And it's bothering me to the point that I really

01:06:23 ◼   ► am starting to feel like this iMac is now cursed,

01:06:25 ◼   ► and I'm thinking about replacing it again.

01:06:29 ◼   ► And so to move out of follow up and perhaps into a new topic,

01:06:33 ◼   ► tell me again why I don't just wanna get

01:06:36 ◼   ► a 16-inch MacBook Pro and just hook up a monitor to it

01:06:40 ◼   ► and just be done, 'cause this way I will always have

01:06:43 ◼   ► my one and only computer with me all the time.

01:06:45 ◼   ► I never have to worry about going back and forth,

01:06:47 ◼   ► although truth be told, I don't typically

01:06:49 ◼   ► have a problem with that.

01:06:49 ◼   ► But still, it'd be nice to have everything

01:06:51 ◼   ► right there with me all the time.

01:06:53 ◼   ► The only real problem I have with this,

01:06:55 ◼   ► and the ace in the hole that'll get you guys

01:06:56 ◼   ► to convince me to stick with an iMac,

01:06:58 ◼   ► is I don't have a good answer for Plex.

01:07:00 ◼   ► I was casting around on Twitter to ask,

01:07:03 ◼   ► oh, can I just get Raspberry Pi and put Plex on that

01:07:06 ◼   ► and have that serve my media to me?

01:07:09 ◼   ► And people said yes, as long as you're direct playing.

01:07:11 ◼   ► That is to say, you don't have to change the format

01:07:14 ◼   ► of anything that it's playing,

01:07:15 ◼   ► because if you have to transcode and change the format

01:07:17 ◼   ► of what's being played on the fly,

01:07:20 ◼   ► the Raspberry Pi will fall into space.

01:07:21 ◼   ► And so I've been looking into some other alternatives,

01:07:24 ◼   ► including the, what is it, the NVIDIA Shield,

01:07:27 ◼   ► something like that?

01:07:28 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, don't do that, no, no, no.

01:07:29 ◼   ► - Well, I'm exploring options.

01:07:32 ◼   ► But in summary, and let me start with Jon,

01:07:35 ◼   ► Jon, why don't I want a laptop again?

01:07:37 ◼   ► 'Cause I feel like right now, a 16-inch laptop

01:07:40 ◼   ► with a monitor may not be too bad.

01:07:43 ◼   ► So talk me off the ledge.

01:07:45 ◼   ► - Laptops are terrible.

01:07:46 ◼   ► - That's not sufficient.

01:07:47 ◼   ► I don't have those problems.

01:07:48 ◼   ► - They make all sorts of noise, they get hot.

01:07:51 ◼   ► Just imagine using your computer,

01:07:53 ◼   ► but having constantly here some tiny little fans screaming.

01:07:57 ◼   ► Yes, you can attach a bigger screen,

01:07:58 ◼   ► but then you're constantly plugging and unplugging it,

01:08:00 ◼   ► and then you just end up using the smaller screen,

01:08:01 ◼   ► which is not as good.

01:08:02 ◼   ► If you have to deal with pointing devices,

01:08:05 ◼   ► then you've got these Bluetooth devices

01:08:06 ◼   ► that you constantly have to repair

01:08:09 ◼   ► or make sure are properly connected.

01:08:11 ◼   ► A desktop is the right solution

01:08:13 ◼   ► for a fixture in your house

01:08:14 ◼   ► where you're gonna do things on a big screen

01:08:16 ◼   ► and for things that you want to run all the time, like Plex.

01:08:18 ◼   ► Like a desktop is the right solution.

01:08:19 ◼   ► Now your current desktop may be flaky,

01:08:21 ◼   ► but the solution is not I don't need a desktop anymore.

01:08:24 ◼   ► It's like, say, if your BMW's engine exploded

01:08:27 ◼   ► and you decide to buy a Jeep.

01:08:28 ◼   ► That's what you're thinking of here.

01:08:29 ◼   ► It's not the same thing.

01:08:30 ◼   ► You may be upset with BMW, but it's like,

01:08:33 ◼   ► does that mean what you want instead

01:08:35 ◼   ► is a totally different kind of car

01:08:37 ◼   ► that is nothing like the one you had before

01:08:39 ◼   ► and that will solve all your problems?

01:08:40 ◼   ► That said, I don't think you shouldn't have a laptop.

01:08:43 ◼   ► I just think you should have a laptop

01:08:44 ◼   ► and also have a desktop.

01:08:45 ◼   ► And if your current desktop is flaky or dying,

01:08:48 ◼   ► I also think it's probably still software related.

01:08:50 ◼   ► But anyway, get another better, newer desktop

01:08:54 ◼   ► and let that be your desktop and then also have a laptop

01:08:56 ◼   ► and there will be peace in your kingdom.

01:08:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I mean, in a perfect world,

01:09:00 ◼   ► I would just, where money doesn't matter,

01:09:02 ◼   ► I would just buy an iMac Pro

01:09:03 ◼   ► and I would buy the 14-inch that doesn't exist.

01:09:06 ◼   ► - You don't need an iMac Pro.

01:09:07 ◼   ► You just wait for the next regular iMac revision

01:09:10 ◼   ► where they make it better and then just buy that one

01:09:12 ◼   ► and have your new laptop with a good keyboard

01:09:15 ◼   ► and everything will be fine.

01:09:16 ◼   ► - I guess, I mean, I don't know.

01:09:18 ◼   ► I feel like I could just solve everything in one shot.

01:09:22 ◼   ► I could just solve everything right now

01:09:24 ◼   ► and just get the obscenely large 16-inch

01:09:27 ◼   ► and then get a monitor and then all my problems are solved

01:09:30 ◼   ► and so I wanna watch anything on Plex, but.

01:09:33 ◼   ► - You know, you have like this big,

01:09:34 ◼   ► don't you remember what that was like?

01:09:35 ◼   ► You got a desk full of cables, you got a docking station,

01:09:37 ◼   ► it's like a Thunderbolt docking station or a USB one

01:09:40 ◼   ► and sometimes it's flaky and you plug your monitor in.

01:09:42 ◼   ► I'm living that life right now.

01:09:44 ◼   ► I have a 15-inch laptop that I plug into a monitor

01:09:48 ◼   ► and a keyboard and a mouse and it's not great.

01:09:50 ◼   ► Like I would prefer to have a desktop and a laptop

01:09:53 ◼   ► 'cause sometimes you need laptops

01:09:54 ◼   ► to carry your computer around, but when I go to my desk,

01:09:56 ◼   ► I hate having to plug the thing back in.

01:09:57 ◼   ► It kernel-panicked twice this week so far,

01:09:59 ◼   ► unplugging it because I had the temerity to unplug it

01:10:01 ◼   ► from my docking station while the lid was closed

01:10:03 ◼   ► and when I open it back up again, the thing is booting.

01:10:06 ◼   ► Sometimes it's booting and sometimes I get to see

01:10:08 ◼   ► the cool multi-language kernel-panic thing.

01:10:10 ◼   ► Like it's not a good experience.

01:10:13 ◼   ► It's not as reliable, your computer aside,

01:10:15 ◼   ► as a desktop where the monitor is always attached

01:10:17 ◼   ► and the keyboard and the mouse don't go anywhere.

01:10:19 ◼   ► They're always right there.

01:10:21 ◼   ► I'm a huge desktop fan and I think there are good things

01:10:25 ◼   ► and it's sad that your desktop is haunted

01:10:27 ◼   ► as we discussed last week,

01:10:28 ◼   ► but I don't recommend that you go all laptop.

01:10:31 ◼   ► I recommend that you get a desktop and a laptop.

01:10:34 ◼   ► - I do wanna say that I wanna hear Marco's two cents

01:10:37 ◼   ► about this, but-- - You will.

01:10:39 ◼   ► - And I know I will, but I don't know.

01:10:42 ◼   ► Like maybe, I think the biggest problem I have is

01:10:44 ◼   ► my current thinking is I'll get an iMac Pro

01:10:48 ◼   ► and I'll get like a 13 or 14-inch MacBook Pro,

01:10:50 ◼   ► but that is thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars.

01:10:54 ◼   ► I'm way more than I want. - Stop getting dime-sized

01:10:56 ◼   ► nicks repaired on your expensive golf.

01:10:58 ◼   ► - I didn't pay for it.

01:10:59 ◼   ► I didn't pay for it.

01:11:00 ◼   ► It's okay.

01:11:01 ◼   ► - You can just take that money.

01:11:02 ◼   ► It's good for, you know,

01:11:05 ◼   ► it's exchangeable for goods and services.

01:11:06 ◼   ► - Yes, yes, yes.

01:11:08 ◼   ► It's too late, but I do take your point.

01:11:10 ◼   ► And I think the ace in the hole,

01:11:12 ◼   ► which I think I'm probably taking Marco's line here,

01:11:14 ◼   ► is this is for my work.

01:11:15 ◼   ► And I don't mean that in the ha-ha funny way.

01:11:17 ◼   ► Like legitimately, this is for my work.

01:11:19 ◼   ► And so if I'm going to spare no expense,

01:11:21 ◼   ► that's a reference, Jon, on anything,

01:11:23 ◼   ► I should probably be sparing no expense

01:11:25 ◼   ► on my computer or computers.

01:11:27 ◼   ► But nevertheless, it just kills me to think of,

01:11:30 ◼   ► you know, my current thinking of a $5,000-plus iMac Pro

01:11:33 ◼   ► and then like a $2,000 to $3,000 MacBook Pro.

01:11:37 ◼   ► - Don't get an iMac Pro.

01:11:38 ◼   ► What makes you think you need an iMac Pro?

01:11:40 ◼   ► You don't.

01:11:40 ◼   ► - And that's where I was going with this is

01:11:43 ◼   ► as much as I want an iMac Pro,

01:11:45 ◼   ► do I really need an iMac Pro?

01:11:47 ◼   ► I probably don't.

01:11:48 ◼   ► And if I don't, then I can save myself some decent money.

01:11:50 ◼   ► I haven't looked into this,

01:11:51 ◼   ► but I would assume I can save some money.

01:11:53 ◼   ► - I would still recommend waiting for the next revision

01:11:55 ◼   ► because the 5K iMac is louder and shoutier

01:11:59 ◼   ► and not as nice inside as the iMac Pro.

01:12:01 ◼   ► So like presumably there's a revision

01:12:03 ◼   ► coming to the plain old iMac eventually.

01:12:04 ◼   ► And that one hopefully will learn many of the lessons

01:12:07 ◼   ► of the iMac Pro, but still not be as expensive.

01:12:09 ◼   ► So you might want to wait for that.

01:12:10 ◼   ► - What if I get a Mac Mini, Jon, is that okay?

01:12:13 ◼   ► - No, 'cause then you're just like,

01:12:14 ◼   ► that would solve your Plex problem,

01:12:15 ◼   ► but you still don't have like the desktop,

01:12:18 ◼   ► the place in your house where you can sit down

01:12:20 ◼   ► or your computer is always already there

01:12:21 ◼   ► and already configured for you to be using it.

01:12:23 ◼   ► And also happens to be on all the time.

01:12:26 ◼   ► - And for the record, I don't want to buy a Mac Mini

01:12:28 ◼   ► for Plex purposes because it's just a tremendous amount

01:12:30 ◼   ► of money for only Plex.

01:12:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, don't, don't.

01:12:32 ◼   ► You don't want to know how to use it.

01:12:34 ◼   ► - To be fair, I use Plex all the time.

01:12:37 ◼   ► Like if there was anything I was going to spend money on,

01:12:39 ◼   ► it would be making my Plex life happy.

01:12:41 ◼   ► But hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a Mac Mini

01:12:44 ◼   ► just to run a Plex server seems stupid.

01:12:46 ◼   ► All right, Marco, you've been very patient.

01:12:48 ◼   ► I appreciate it.

01:12:48 ◼   ► So solve all my problems for me by spending my money.

01:12:51 ◼   ► This is your favorite thing in the world to do.

01:12:53 ◼   ► Now is your moment.

01:12:54 ◼   ► Spend all my money, please.

01:12:56 ◼   ► - I'm torn, honestly.

01:12:57 ◼   ► I totally get your dilemma here.

01:13:00 ◼   ► And I was, when you first posed this question,

01:13:03 ◼   ► the answer I was drafting in my head was,

01:13:05 ◼   ► just get the 16, just go all out.

01:13:07 ◼   ► Because you're right, it would solve a bunch of problems.

01:13:10 ◼   ► It would create a few more.

01:13:12 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:13:13 ◼   ► - It would, it would.

01:13:13 ◼   ► - But it would solve some.

01:13:15 ◼   ► I also ran through in my head, just get a Mac Mini.

01:13:20 ◼   ► It doesn't even have to be a modern one.

01:13:21 ◼   ► It can be an old one.

01:13:22 ◼   ► Just get a Mac Mini for your Plex needs

01:13:25 ◼   ► and then that frees up your laptop for everything else.

01:13:27 ◼   ► And I was thinking like, you do often talk about

01:13:31 ◼   ► getting work done while mobile.

01:13:34 ◼   ► You talk about getting work done in the car

01:13:37 ◼   ► when Aaron's driving on a longish trip.

01:13:40 ◼   ► You talk about bringing your laptop to grocery stores

01:13:42 ◼   ► to work, I guess, in the produce section, I don't know.

01:13:45 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:13:46 ◼   ► You talk about going to the library with your laptop.

01:13:48 ◼   ► You talk frequently about taking your laptop out

01:13:52 ◼   ► and actually doing development work on it.

01:13:54 ◼   ► So you're doing significant work on a laptop frequently.

01:13:58 ◼   ► So a decent to good laptop has to be part of your setup.

01:14:03 ◼   ► - Agreed.

01:14:05 ◼   ► - So that's a given.

01:14:06 ◼   ► You have to have a good laptop of some sort.

01:14:10 ◼   ► The way that you talk about working in the car

01:14:14 ◼   ► concerns me for a 15 or 16 inch.

01:14:17 ◼   ► Could you, in the way that you frequently work in the car,

01:14:21 ◼   ► would a 16 inch be able to fit in your lap

01:14:24 ◼   ► and open up fully?

01:14:25 ◼   ► - I think so.

01:14:26 ◼   ► I think I'm also overblowing car work.

01:14:29 ◼   ► It's not that often that that happens.

01:14:30 ◼   ► It just so happens I was in the middle of doing something

01:14:33 ◼   ► when we needed to go somewhere.

01:14:34 ◼   ► So I was like, oh, screw it, I'll just bring my laptop

01:14:35 ◼   ► with me and do it in the car.

01:14:37 ◼   ► I don't think you're overblowing grocery store,

01:14:40 ◼   ► which by the way is in the little cafe area

01:14:42 ◼   ► in the grocery store, but I don't think

01:14:44 ◼   ► you're overblowing grocery stores.

01:14:45 ◼   ► - You're just sitting by the pile of avocados?

01:14:47 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, I don't live in California.

01:14:50 ◼   ► So you're not overblowing grocery store library work

01:14:54 ◼   ► 'cause I would say one to two days a week

01:14:56 ◼   ► pretty consistently and occasionally more,

01:14:59 ◼   ► I will go to a grocery store library or even a Starbucks

01:15:02 ◼   ► or something like that and get work done.

01:15:03 ◼   ► So I 100%, 100% agree with you that a decent