329: Mac Pro Day


00:00:00   We are the champions, my friends. And we'll keep on fighting till the end. We are the champions, we are the champions. No time for losing, cause we are the champions.

00:00:29   So guys, is today Mac Pro Day or what?

00:00:39   I just want to be clear, I'm not saying that we are the champions. We collectively are the champions today. All Mac users, even if you're not going to buy this computer, which you won't because it's really expensive.

00:00:51   Save it for the show.

00:00:53   This is the show.

00:00:55   So should we maybe talk about what happened today?

00:00:59   A lot.

00:01:01   A lot happened.

00:01:03   So here's the deal. We have a 90 minute show roughly, cause you're all here and we don't want to overrun your patients and bodies.

00:01:11   But we have a lot to cover. Like a lot.

00:01:15   So let's start with a quick summary of the event.

00:01:19   And I think we're going to spend most of today talking about Casey's favorite topic maybe?

00:01:24   Yay!

00:01:26   So, quick summary. What do we think of the event as a whole?

00:01:30   You know, it's tough because I now have to deal with six months of Mac Pro conversation, so that I'm not too thrilled about.

00:01:37   But I'm happy for you guys. And you guys.

00:01:40   No, Vinayat got Sherlock'd, as expected, which was delightful.

00:01:45   You still have until the fall.

00:01:47   Yeah, I have until the fall. So if you haven't given me your five bucks yet, let's get on that real quick.

00:01:51   But I did, they didn't really mention this in the keynote, and I'm not going to have time to talk about it.

00:01:56   And so since I have the mic, I have to do it now.

00:01:58   We did get RxSwift, but first party.

00:02:01   Which is really exciting. Thank you! Thank you!

00:02:05   That is very good.

00:02:07   And that was something, like we heard the rumblings about Amber and what is now called SwiftUI.

00:02:11   We didn't hear anything.

00:02:13   There were no rumors about, what's it called?

00:02:16   No, no, no, the Combine.

00:02:18   I keep trying to call it compact.

00:02:21   Like the enemies in Half-Life 2, right? The Combine.

00:02:23   So that's something totally new. I expect you, Mr. Casey List, this is your next job.

00:02:29   You are going to be a Combine leader, not in the Half-Life 2 way, that's a bad way.

00:02:34   But in the, like, you can be a consultant, you can do videos, which you love doing, on how to combine things.

00:02:43   I see what you did there.

00:02:45   Because you are Mr. Rx, Rx just got Sherlocked basically.

00:02:50   So we're going to want to hear from you, the Rx expert, of how to use this.

00:02:55   First of all, you're going to have to teach me, because I have to learn Swift now.

00:02:58   I'm so sorry.

00:03:00   We can clap for that. We can clap for that.

00:03:03   You're going to have to teach me, and probably many of us.

00:03:08   And so that's your new job.

00:03:10   In case this whole contact photo app thing ends up not going so well after September,

00:03:17   Jeez, why?

00:03:19   You have a new thing, so congratulations.

00:03:21   So to bring this back around,

00:03:23   Good summary of the event, guys.

00:03:25   So to bring this back around, there were some highs and some lows.

00:03:29   All kidding aside, the keynote was breakneck pace.

00:03:33   It was unbelievably quick. How much stuff?

00:03:36   We say that every year. We say it every year.

00:03:38   But it keeps getting faster. He would say one sentence and then he'd put up a slide

00:03:41   and before we even read the words in the slide, it would go to the next one.

00:03:44   It was really fast, which is fine. More time for the Mac Pro. I'm all for it.

00:03:47   It was fast.

00:03:49   It was absolutely incredible.

00:03:51   And the State of the Union was good as well, but I think for the most part tonight,

00:03:54   we're probably going to focus on the keynote.

00:03:55   But there was so much there. There was just so much there.

00:03:58   My notes for this, it's like 16 pages long in Apple Notes,

00:04:01   at least in this big font that I'm using.

00:04:03   There's just so much.

00:04:05   There's the marzipan thing, which is now called Project Catalyst,

00:04:08   which is going to take me a very long time to remember,

00:04:11   like all these names, from the code names that we heard in the rumors to now they're real names.

00:04:15   There's that. There's all the changes to the OSs themselves,

00:04:19   which are numerous and significant.

00:04:22   So this is a massive year.

00:04:25   I would say this is the biggest keynote since the Swift keynote.

00:04:28   Yeah, I think that's fair.

00:04:30   Yeah. So anyway.

00:04:33   So before we get started on the main Mac Pro topic,

00:04:37   we have a special sponsorship this week.

00:04:41   I mean, we have multiple special sponsors. They're all special.

00:04:44   Every single one of them is special.

00:04:46   It's a special event that many of you have been requesting for a long time.

00:04:50   Would you welcome, if you please,

00:04:54   dear friend of the show, Alex Cox to the stage, everybody.

00:04:59   [cheers and applause]

00:05:10   So we are sponsored this week by Cards Against Humanity,

00:05:17   who have brought not only a toaster for Jon to review,

00:05:22   but I would say this is the toaster.

00:05:25   This is the Balmuda.

00:05:27   Alex, do you know anything about this?

00:05:29   It's the Balmuda toaster. It's Japanese.

00:05:31   It uses steam, and it's very fancy.

00:05:33   Hi. It's very fancy and very expensive.

00:05:36   It can't grate anything, which is sad.

00:05:39   But yeah, it has steam induction,

00:05:41   and you just put in a single piece of bread at a time,

00:05:46   and there are six different kinds of bread,

00:05:49   as Mr. Sierk says, in expecting.

00:05:52   Jon is just trying to close it.

00:05:54   Like, the rack is off the rails.

00:05:56   He's just trying to make it close correctly,

00:05:58   and the rack -- I mean, Jon --

00:06:00   [overlapping conversation]

00:06:03   The rack is out of the toaster.

00:06:05   Jon, can you explain what you think

00:06:09   of the Balmuda very expensive Japanese steam toaster?

00:06:12   All right, well, first of all, this is not the one --

00:06:14   This is the one that people have been sending me for the past year,

00:06:16   not the one that people have been sending me

00:06:18   for the past month or so, which is the single square thing.

00:06:21   It looks like a Mac Mini that you put bread in.

00:06:23   This is the bigger one.

00:06:24   It looks like a toaster oven.

00:06:26   God, it's expensive, but let me tell you,

00:06:28   the insides of this are not --

00:06:29   I wish this was a video podcast.

00:06:30   This rack is no good.

00:06:32   [ Laughter ]

00:06:34   I can bend this in half with my hands.

00:06:35   It's very thin.

00:06:36   It's not clear even how it goes in.

00:06:38   There's no multiple positions that it goes in.

00:06:40   Here is where you put the water, and it gets steamed.

00:06:42   The door keeps flopping open and closed.

00:06:45   It doesn't seem like it has the right spring tension.

00:06:47   The knobs are okay.

00:06:49   The knob feel is passable?

00:06:52   Yeah, it's simple.

00:06:53   It's just got the two knobs.

00:06:54   I'm very disappointed in the whole rest of the thing.

00:06:56   I wouldn't want this in my house with this flappy thing

00:06:58   and the steam, and this tray is just terrible.

00:07:01   I've never seen one of these before,

00:07:03   but I'm very disappointed in it.

00:07:05   [ Laughter ]

00:07:06   -So we have toast here.

00:07:10   We have various slices of toast

00:07:13   in various amounts of dumplings.

00:07:14   -All right, audience, let's look at the back of this toast.

00:07:16   -Yeah, you got to try the toast.

00:07:19   -And so in all fairness, it's made for a special type

00:07:21   of Japanese bread that we didn't have.

00:07:23   -A special Japanese bread that is harder to toast on one end?

00:07:26   [ Laughter ]

00:07:27   'Cause this is not even.

00:07:29   The top is done, and the bottom is practically raw.

00:07:31   That's no good.

00:07:33   There's a similar one there.

00:07:35   Like, they're all like that.

00:07:36   -I got to say, like, during the preparation

00:07:38   of these toasts in the green room,

00:07:39   there was a lot of smoke being generated.

00:07:41   -Yeah, especially for it being steam-powered, allegedly.

00:07:44   -Yeah, and I don't know what the steam is trying to do.

00:07:45   The Japanese seem to be super into, like,

00:07:47   having the toast be, like, moist and stuff,

00:07:48   but honestly, if you just get bread that's not stale

00:07:50   and you toast it and eat it really quickly

00:07:52   before, like, all the moisture goes out of it, it's fine.

00:07:55   -So we're saying this one not the best?

00:07:57   -No, good.

00:07:59   [ Laughter ]

00:08:00   -Are you really not going to have any bites?

00:08:02   -I'm not going to eat any of the toast.

00:08:04   -Why? -No, that's not going to happen.

00:08:05   Just pretend. -Give me a piece of toast.

00:08:06   -Get the toast.

00:08:08   -Now that Alex handled every piece backstage.

00:08:10   -This looks great up top.

00:08:13   It's a nice, even brown up top.

00:08:15   But the bottom is a total disaster.

00:08:17   Like, this is truly awful.

00:08:18   -We've covered that.

00:08:19   -So who had on their bingo card

00:08:23   Casey eating Wonder Bread on stage?

00:08:25   -Yeah, see, so here we go.

00:08:26   Let me do some fully work here.

00:08:28   -All right.

00:08:29   -That was not good.

00:08:30   That was not good at all.

00:08:31   -I mean, it's not -- it's cold now

00:08:33   and not buttered or anything.

00:08:34   -I said it's Wonder Bread.

00:08:35   -I wouldn't eat it either.

00:08:36   -It does come with a tiny little cup to put the water in

00:08:38   that says 5 cc in it, as if you put more or less water,

00:08:41   it wouldn't work correctly.

00:08:43   -I mean, I would argue it wasn't already working correctly.

00:08:45   -This toaster is putting on airs.

00:08:47   -You know, before we thank Alex,

00:08:50   I do want to say that at least I do have sustenance

00:08:52   for when we talk about the Mac Pro

00:08:54   and don't leave for three weeks.

00:08:55   So the joke's on all of you, because I've got dinner.

00:08:58   -Thank you so much.

00:09:00   -Alex, thank you so much.

00:09:01   -Thank you to "Carp Against Humanity"

00:09:02   for sponsoring our show.

00:09:04   [ Cheers and applause ]

00:09:07   -Why don't you spin it around?

00:09:11   -That was amazing.

00:09:12   -She's just going to leave the toaster.

00:09:13   All right, now you have to look at this abomination

00:09:14   the whole show.

00:09:15   -Yeah.

00:09:16   -Still sitting in front of John.

00:09:17   -Enjoying it.

00:09:18   -Oh, see?

00:09:19   -Oh, see?

00:09:20   And the door is flopping open.

00:09:21   -It's the worst.

00:09:22   -That's right.

00:09:23   -We'll just let it air out.

00:09:24   Just let it air out.

00:09:25   -So, what do you want to talk about?

00:09:27   -How about we talk more about the Combine?

00:09:31   I always get the thing wrong.

00:09:32   Combine framework.

00:09:33   -That's a good idea.

00:09:34   -We could do easily an hour and a half on that.

00:09:35   Because you guys don't want to hear about

00:09:36   the Mac Pro at all, right?

00:09:37   Yes!

00:09:38   That worked so much better than I expected.

00:09:41   Oh, that's delightful.

00:09:42   -You're in the wrong place.

00:09:43   [ Laughter ]

00:09:44   -All right, everyone, buckle up.

00:09:46   -I have some bad news for you, Casey.

00:09:48   It's Mac Pro time.

00:09:49   -Yes, it is.

00:09:50   -But I have some good news for you, Casey.

00:09:51   -Oh, thank God.

00:09:52   I have just been handed a bottle of Tito's

00:09:57   "All is Right in the World."

00:09:59   I will try to resist cracking that.

00:10:01   -You don't have to.

00:10:02   -We'll see how it goes.

00:10:03   -We're all friends.

00:10:04   -All right, all right.

00:10:05   Well, we'll see how it goes.

00:10:06   I hope I don't need it.

00:10:07   -Dip the bread in it.

00:10:08   -Yeah, dip the bread in the Tito's.

00:10:09   That'll be good.

00:10:10   Thank you, friend of the show, Jason Snell.

00:10:11   I'm going to resist for now because I'm an adult.

00:10:13   But we'll see what happens.

00:10:14   All right, Jon, this is your day.

00:10:16   This is your moment.

00:10:17   I was sitting next to you witnessing this happening.

00:10:20   In fact, I should point out that Underscore and I colluded --

00:10:23   bad choice of words -- Underscore and I cooperated

00:10:25   to sit on either side of you.

00:10:28   So should you faint in either direction,

00:10:31   one of us would have caught you.

00:10:33   So, Jon, today is your day.

00:10:35   What do you think about the Mac Pro?

00:10:37   -I think I gave it less buildup than I would have thought

00:10:40   because, like, we all -- I guess we all knew

00:10:42   it was coming before they played the video,

00:10:44   so there wasn't much surprise there.

00:10:46   And I was shocked at how close our sort of just guessing

00:10:49   last show about what the Mac Pro would be like

00:10:52   turned out to be.

00:10:53   The only time I had a little bit of a hard palpitations

00:10:56   was when the first frame of the video showed a round thing.

00:10:59   I was like, "Oh, God, what have they done?"

00:11:02   -They were totally messing with us with that.

00:11:04   -It's the sphere that everyone has been sending me jokes about.

00:11:06   It's like, but that was just a hole in the case.

00:11:09   So, yeah, like, they did it.

00:11:11   They did what we thought they were going to do.

00:11:13   I think most of our predictions last show were dead on.

00:11:16   I'm very happy about it.

00:11:19   And I think to tackle this beast,

00:11:21   we should start from the outside in.

00:11:24   Let's just start talking about the outside of this thing.

00:11:28   So, you know, size -- it's a tower.

00:11:30   Size-wise, it's in between the trash can

00:11:32   and the regular Mac Pro,

00:11:33   but closer to the old Mac Pro, the cheese grater.

00:11:39   Aesthetically, what do you two think of the mega grater?

00:11:46   -I would say the design of the grater

00:11:48   is optimized for softer cheeses now than before.

00:11:54   It is -- So, I got a chance to ask a lot of questions about it

00:11:58   to various people in the Pro Studio area,

00:12:01   and I asked specifically, like,

00:12:03   "Are these new holes that are these weird kind of,

00:12:06   like, alien eye, like, larger holes

00:12:08   with little sub holes that are curved in?

00:12:10   Do these serve some kind of, you know,

00:12:12   cooling physical function, or are they just design?"

00:12:14   And I was told they do serve functions of, you know,

00:12:16   reducing noise, letting in a whole bunch of air

00:12:18   and everything, so they do seem to be there for a reason.

00:12:21   I can say that it is quite a striking look in person,

00:12:25   not 100% in a positive way,

00:12:27   but the reality is, like, with this machine,

00:12:31   where they went wrong with the trash can,

00:12:33   the 2013 Mac Pro,

00:12:35   is they optimized for good looks.

00:12:38   And for many of their other machines,

00:12:40   that's the right trade-off, but not the Mac Pro.

00:12:43   And that ended up being its downfall, among other things.

00:12:46   But this machine, they have done what we all wanted.

00:12:50   They have put, like, slimness and cute shapes

00:12:54   and appearance kind of on the back burner

00:12:58   in order to achieve what the Mac Pro is supposed to be,

00:13:01   which is a big box with no thermal constraints

00:13:04   that can handle the most powerful stuff we can throw in it

00:13:06   and be upgradable and other stuff.

00:13:08   So, yeah, I think it kind of looks a little bit odd.

00:13:11   It's pretty big. It's very similar in size,

00:13:14   I'd say, to the cheese grater, really.

00:13:16   It's not that much smaller.

00:13:18   They wouldn't let me lift it up,

00:13:19   and they wouldn't answer how heavy it is,

00:13:20   but I think it says on the website...

00:13:21   -It's 37 pounds. -Yeah, it's heavy.

00:13:23   It's like -- Yeah, of course you already know this.

00:13:25   So, like, you know, it's a big honking thing.

00:13:29   -Sorry, 39.7. I have it in my notes.

00:13:31   -There you go.

00:13:32   Like, it's not going to fit in my beach backpack.

00:13:35   -But it's got wheels. -Yeah.

00:13:39   I asked if there was going to be, like, a rubber wheel option

00:13:41   or, like, a beach tire option.

00:13:42   -I think they are rubber. I think they are rubberish.

00:13:44   At least they look black.

00:13:45   -Yeah, so it's -- The fact is, the thing is big and chunky,

00:13:49   and the air holes on the front of it look kind of funny,

00:13:52   but it's awesome.

00:13:54   It's exactly what we wanted.

00:13:56   They sacrificed looks and size

00:13:59   to make a machine that is awesome

00:14:02   and has all the capacity, the thermal capacity,

00:14:04   and the size and the slots and everything else.

00:14:06   So while I think a lot of people are criticizing the looks,

00:14:10   I don't care, because they made exactly what it needed to be.

00:14:12   -Yeah, so let's talk about other looks.

00:14:14   In the last show, it was like, "They can make it rectangular,

00:14:16   and you can make a rectangular solid look nice

00:14:18   with surface details, with neat surface details."

00:14:20   And there sure are surface details.

00:14:22   Like, so this is machined on both the front

00:14:24   and the back of the thing.

00:14:25   They mention, you know, obviously, for airflow

00:14:27   and lots of surface area and all the other stuff,

00:14:29   and they also mention for, like, structural rigidity.

00:14:31   I'm like, "Are you putting a Volvo upside down

00:14:34   on your Mac Pro?"

00:14:36   Like, I'm not sure why it has to be so strong,

00:14:38   but here's the word that came to mind,

00:14:40   even though I didn't know this word.

00:14:42   And please, everyone in the audience,

00:14:44   do not Google this word.

00:14:46   Trust me.

00:14:48   It's "tripophobia"?

00:14:50   -Oh, no.

00:14:51   Seriously, don't Google that word.

00:14:53   -Do not Google that word, but let me just say,

00:14:55   it is a phobia related to things with holes in them.

00:15:00   And I don't think the front of this computer triggers that,

00:15:04   but it is uncomfortably close to that.

00:15:07   So I think it -- First of all, it looks to all the world

00:15:10   like a cheese grater.

00:15:11   There are actually kitchen cheese graters

00:15:13   with, like, a stainless steel rod.

00:15:14   It's like the little thing there, right?

00:15:15   So, you know, and it is like --

00:15:17   I'm trying to come up with a name for this,

00:15:18   and we can't call it the cheese grater.

00:15:19   The Mega Grater.

00:15:20   I don't know what I'm gonna call it,

00:15:21   but, like, if you took the old cheese grater,

00:15:23   Mac Pro, and rubbed it against this one,

00:15:25   the old Mac Pro would be grated.

00:15:27   [ Laughter ]

00:15:29   It is seriously --

00:15:30   Like, it's gonna seriously grate something,

00:15:32   and the tripophobia angle --

00:15:33   Let me just say, I'll be glad to have this under my desk.

00:15:36   But everything -- Everything Margot said is true.

00:15:38   You know, cold air comes in the front.

00:15:40   Hot air goes out the back.

00:15:42   Lots of big, lazily spinning fans.

00:15:44   Tons of room for stuff, which we will get to in a second.

00:15:47   And practically speaking, it's a big box,

00:15:49   and exterior design-wise,

00:15:51   they one-upped -- Like, so the Yosemite Tower

00:15:53   and the El Cap Tower had a door that folded down.

00:15:56   The Power Mac G5 and the Mac Pro had a door that came off.

00:16:00   This thing, the whole sleeve comes off,

00:16:02   leaving sort of the naked robotic core,

00:16:04   a la the old, you know, G4 Cube.

00:16:07   You can get it all sides of this thing.

00:16:09   I wonder if you can even run it like that.

00:16:11   Then you wouldn't have to have that case on it all the time.

00:16:13   Anyway, it is a very interesting design,

00:16:15   very practical, very utilitarian.

00:16:17   They tried to make the surface details interesting,

00:16:20   and they kind of wigged me out a little bit.

00:16:22   But, you know, I won't be looking at that part of it.

00:16:25   And also, luckily, I won't have to see the back of the monitor

00:16:27   if I buy it, either, which also has those holes in it.

00:16:30   I know I can't really see half of the audience here,

00:16:32   but this is the thing you can only do live.

00:16:34   Show of hands, who thinks the looks of the new Mac Pro

00:16:37   and monitor are, like, a little homelier

00:16:39   than you would have expected?

00:16:41   Not that you hate it, but a little homelier.

00:16:43   -I'd say about half the room. -A little more than half.

00:16:46   -About half. -Yeah, that's pretty good.

00:16:47   Does anyone in the room love it

00:16:48   and think it's the most awesome computer?

00:16:50   Like, it looks wise.

00:16:51   Looks wise, just for the looks.

00:16:53   No, no love. No one is like, "Well,

00:16:55   one or two people think it looks awesome."

00:16:57   Anyway, I'm sure it will grow on us.

00:16:59   It'll be fun.

00:17:00   So that's the outside.

00:17:01   Anything more to say about the outside?

00:17:02   Yeah, it's got optional wheels,

00:17:03   which I think is a very clever idea.

00:17:04   It's rack-mountable, which is smart.

00:17:06   It's rectangular, and that makes that easier.

00:17:09   It's got ports on the top instead of the back.

00:17:11   It's got ports on the back, too,

00:17:12   but it's also got stuff on the top,

00:17:13   like, the Thunderbolt ports are on there,

00:17:15   and that's where the little screw thingy is.

00:17:17   It's got stuff in the back.

00:17:19   What else is going on?

00:17:20   Two optical drives? No way.

00:17:21   There's a lot going on.

00:17:23   So, like, one thing that I picked up

00:17:25   that I didn't catch from the keynote

00:17:26   is that there is a USB-A port

00:17:28   and two SATA ports on the inside,

00:17:32   and the idea here is you can add SATA drives to it.

00:17:35   You can also upgrade and replace

00:17:38   the SSD sticks that go into the T2.

00:17:41   Very nice.

00:17:42   Yep.

00:17:43   That's what you said.

00:17:44   Yeah, well, that wasn't when we talked about expansion,

00:17:45   but they were very --

00:17:46   What they meant by modular is not a bunch of boxes

00:17:48   that connect together,

00:17:49   but it is even more modular in terms of the I/O

00:17:52   than any of the Mac pros that came before,

00:17:54   which is nice.

00:17:55   Yeah, like, they actually want people

00:17:56   to use those SATA ports,

00:17:57   although there's no, like, bays,

00:17:58   so, like, what you connect to those

00:18:00   has to be mounted somewhere,

00:18:02   so it'd probably, like, just be wired to a card

00:18:03   that goes out of the computer or something,

00:18:04   but it's there if you need to use it.

00:18:06   Somebody will make stuff to use it.

00:18:07   The USB-A port inside is useful

00:18:09   if you have, like, some kind of app like Maya

00:18:11   where they still use those, like, hardware --

00:18:14   hardware dongles.

00:18:15   That still happens?

00:18:16   Yes, apparently it does.

00:18:17   Oh, my word.

00:18:18   And they're usually USB-A,

00:18:19   and so that's what that's for.

00:18:20   You can just, like, mount it inside

00:18:21   and just always have it,

00:18:23   or you can, you know, you can come up with stuff.

00:18:25   The I/O card that goes into the PCI-X4 slot on the end,

00:18:29   the I/O card is optional.

00:18:30   You can take it out and just put any other card there you want.

00:18:33   Like, if you don't need those, like, four ports it offers,

00:18:35   you can just take it out and put something else there.

00:18:38   For great savings, right, Marco?

00:18:40   Yeah, right.

00:18:41   Probably not.

00:18:42   The thing with that is, though,

00:18:43   that if, you know, whatever comes after Thunderbolt --

00:18:45   so I look at your ancient cheese grater from 15 years ago --

00:18:48   I'm sorry, 10 years ago, and you don't have, like, USB-C.

00:18:52   And you can add it,

00:18:53   but you'd be stuck with those other ports, yeah.

00:18:55   Yeah, so you could take out this I/O board

00:18:57   and then put in your new I/O board

00:18:59   with things that have happened since, I don't know,

00:19:02   50 years ago, because I feel like your computer's

00:19:04   effectively 50 years old at this point.

00:19:05   In computer years, yeah.

00:19:06   Yeah, and so you can easily upgrade

00:19:08   just that portion of the machine, which is really clever.

00:19:10   Yeah, the only thing you're stuck with, I guess,

00:19:12   is the ports on the top of the case,

00:19:14   which is like 3 Thunderbolt 3 or something like that.

00:19:16   2, I think, yeah.

00:19:17   There's not much, but, yeah, everything else.

00:19:19   And then the two 10-gig Ethernet,

00:19:21   you're stuck with those, but everything else,

00:19:23   all the other I/O is optional.

00:19:24   Yeah, and it's like, they really, like,

00:19:26   if we predicted -- well, we did predict, like,

00:19:28   we were trying to guess, like,

00:19:30   how modular does "modular" mean, right?

00:19:32   And we were all, I think, underestimating how modular,

00:19:35   this is way more modular.

00:19:37   There are more slots than we thought.

00:19:39   Why don't we go through all the things

00:19:41   that we're going to talk about?

00:19:43   Yeah, so, yeah, I think the CPU part, right,

00:19:45   the just-one CPU, I think it has, like, 8, 12, and 28 cores.

00:19:48   I don't know if there's a 10-core mixed in there,

00:19:50   but they're all --

00:19:51   I asked about that, too.

00:19:52   No, I think there's, like, 8, 16, and it doesn't matter,

00:19:54   but I asked about, like, you know,

00:19:56   what's the deal with these CPUs.

00:19:58   I thought maybe they might be Xeon E7s,

00:20:00   but I don't think they are, because the fact is, like,

00:20:02   they basically put, like, in the previous,

00:20:04   like, in the iMac Pro and everything else,

00:20:06   usually you're limited by about, like, 160-watt TDP,

00:20:08   like, the thermal limit of the processor.

00:20:10   That's what the TDP exposure is built for,

00:20:12   and that limits, like, how many cores you can run

00:20:14   for how -- at what speeds, for how long,

00:20:16   you're just limited by thermals.

00:20:18   This one, they're using, I think, a 280-watt TDP chip,

00:20:21   and the cooling system on it is made for 300 watts,

00:20:24   so they actually over-provision the cooling system,

00:20:27   and they say that it can sustain full turbo speeds

00:20:30   for quite a while.

00:20:32   Like, possibly indefinitely.

00:20:33   I don't know. I didn't get that far, but, like, you know,

00:20:35   it's hard to get people to nail things down like that,

00:20:37   but, like, this thing is made for very high thermal performance

00:20:41   as, like, number-one thing.

00:20:43   So there's tons of headroom.

00:20:45   As Intel gets worse at making their chip roadmap happen

00:20:49   and as their CPUs keep getting hotter over time,

00:20:52   this is gonna be able to handle that for a while,

00:20:55   and having that thermal headroom allows it to get away

00:21:00   with not having two CPU sockets for most people's needs,

00:21:03   because you can run these very high core count

00:21:06   giant Xeon chips in there that need massive heat dissipation,

00:21:09   and it actually works.

00:21:10   So given what they've done with the cooling and everything else,

00:21:13   I am totally fine with this being single-socket.

00:21:16   -Yeah, and they used most of the cooling for what we didn't expect,

00:21:19   which is the huge number of other slots in there.

00:21:21   So there's 12 RAM slots, which is a lot,

00:21:23   and you can, you know, put enough RAM in it

00:21:25   to buy a more expensive car.

00:21:27   The storage is just like the iMac.

00:21:29   It seems like up four-terabyte max. That's fine.

00:21:32   10-gig Ethernet they got, but eight PCI slots, right?

00:21:35   So then -- and they divide these up in a weird way.

00:21:37   So one of them is the little half-length one,

00:21:39   which is just for, like, your regular I/O

00:21:41   if you want some ports in the back.

00:21:43   I'll get back to that in a second,

00:21:44   'cause I'm a little bit, like --

00:21:45   The utility of the modularity of this Mac

00:21:47   depends entirely on how many people make things

00:21:49   that you can stick in it besides Apple,

00:21:51   which I'm a little bit worried about,

00:21:53   but they've got the four double-wide slots,

00:21:55   two of which are the MPX bays.

00:21:58   It's confusing.

00:21:59   Like, if you look at their slot diagram,

00:22:01   like, there's double-wide slots,

00:22:03   but then there's a second slot next to two of the double-wide slots

00:22:06   for those giant cards with the huge cooling thing in it

00:22:08   for their double-GPU stuff.

00:22:10   Then there's three single-wide slots,

00:22:12   and then there's the half-length slot.

00:22:13   There's a lot of slots in this thing,

00:22:15   and it just makes me think who, besides Apple,

00:22:17   will make stuff that goes in there?

00:22:19   Obviously, Apple's gonna make enough stuff to go in there

00:22:20   to spend all of your money, but years down the road,

00:22:23   will Apple make new things to go in there?

00:22:24   Will they introduce new GPUs to go in there?

00:22:26   Will they support third-party stuff to go in there?

00:22:28   It seems like a lot of room in that case,

00:22:29   so I really hope all --

00:22:30   They didn't announce, like,

00:22:31   here are our third-party vendors for their, like,

00:22:33   whatever weird cards that people need for video editing

00:22:35   that I don't know about.

00:22:37   They announced the FPGA?

00:22:40   Chat room, help me out.

00:22:41   -Yeah, yeah, the FPGA.

00:22:42   That's the afterburner card, isn't it?

00:22:44   -Yeah, the Fieldgate program over --

00:22:46   Anyway, the thing where they make a custom ASIC

00:22:49   that does a thing really fast and lets them run 8K video,

00:22:52   and that's cool, and that's an example

00:22:53   of one of those cool cards

00:22:54   that you can stick in one of those many slots,

00:22:56   but there are a lot of slots, and so when they say modular,

00:22:58   it seems like they mean tons and tons of slots,

00:23:00   and not a lot of stuff that's mandatory

00:23:02   to come with the computer, so I'm excited about that.

00:23:06   -I think also, like, the little bits

00:23:08   we've picked up here and there

00:23:09   and some questions I got to ask were, like,

00:23:11   in the area of future card expandability

00:23:14   and card compatibility,

00:23:15   I think we can look at what happened

00:23:16   with the cheese grater Mac Pro.

00:23:17   There were, you know, not, like,

00:23:19   not every PC card in the world was compatible with it,

00:23:21   but there were a good deal of cards

00:23:22   across all different kinds of needs.

00:23:24   There were, like, you know, disc cards.

00:23:25   Later on, there were, like, USB 3.0 cards.

00:23:27   You could add USB 3.0 to your ancient computer.

00:23:28   -Hardware raid cards.

00:23:29   -Yeah, yeah, hardware raid, fiber channel kind of,

00:23:31   you know, all this, like, high-end Pro stuff,

00:23:33   plus, like, some nice consumer stuff,

00:23:34   like storage expansion and upgradeable ports

00:23:36   and stuff like that, and that's all supported with this.

00:23:38   I was also told that the MPX slots,

00:23:41   you don't have to use them as MPX slots.

00:23:43   -Yeah, you can just use them as regular double-wide slots.

00:23:45   There's that second connector, if you need it,

00:23:46   which provides more power and all sorts of other stuff.

00:23:48   Did they say whether other people can make MPX modules

00:23:51   or just Apple?

00:23:52   -I don't think -- I didn't get a read on that,

00:23:54   but I don't think that's gonna happen,

00:23:55   but you don't have to use MPX GPUs necessarily.

00:23:58   -Yeah, just put a regular one in.

00:23:59   -You can put a regular GPU in there,

00:24:01   and if there's a driver that supports it,

00:24:03   there will be power headers available

00:24:06   for, like, the extra power connector

00:24:07   on the back of the PC cards and everything,

00:24:08   so, like, there's a lot going on in there.

00:24:11   Like, they really did this right.

00:24:13   The expansion story, I think, is great,

00:24:15   because, you know, even if Apple drops the ball

00:24:18   and never makes more of these MPX modules again,

00:24:20   which is a risk, honestly.

00:24:21   You know, look at the track record.

00:24:23   They have to prove to us

00:24:24   that that's not gonna happen over time, right?

00:24:26   So it is a risk that they never update this thing again.

00:24:28   They never touch it again.

00:24:29   There's never more cards available.

00:24:31   But I think they've built this thing in such a way

00:24:33   that as long as somebody's willing to have a driver

00:24:35   for some card in the future,

00:24:37   they can have other people make GPUs.

00:24:39   They can have other people make other devices and everything,

00:24:41   and I think it's gonna be reasonably expandable,

00:24:44   and it's gonna be, I think,

00:24:45   very similar to the cheese grater,

00:24:47   if not more, you know, more expandable over time than that

00:24:50   because of all the options and headers and power things

00:24:53   they've built into this one.

00:24:54   -They've got the power supply for it.

00:24:55   They've got a 1.4-kilowatt power supply, which interestingly--

00:24:58   -Which is bananas.

00:24:59   -Which interestingly, like, 1.5 kilowatts is the maximum

00:25:03   that you're allowed to sell a consumer device

00:25:05   that continuously operates.

00:25:07   [ Laughter ]

00:25:08   -Wait, isn't that the limit of what you can plug

00:25:11   into a regular outlet?

00:25:12   -Yeah, and under 15 amps are good at 110 volts

00:25:14   in this country.

00:25:15   The law is that you can do 80% of max capacity.

00:25:18   So 1,500 kilo-- you know, 1,500 watts is the maximum

00:25:21   for any device that's just gonna be on, like, all the time,

00:25:23   not like a toaster or a microwave that can be on briefly

00:25:25   or whatever.

00:25:26   So they're close to maxing out how much power

00:25:28   they can even put in a case like that.

00:25:29   So that's good.

00:25:30   Plenty of headroom there,

00:25:31   as long as the power supply is quiet and everything.

00:25:33   And by the way, Marco-- at this point, Marco is the only one

00:25:35   who's actually seen this device in person

00:25:37   and talked to Tim Cook about it.

00:25:38   But, uh...

00:25:39   [ Laughter ]

00:25:40   -Talk is generous.

00:25:41   -...Ginny and I are going to see it tomorrow morning,

00:25:43   which Casey is very excited about.

00:25:45   -Oh, overjoyed.

00:25:46   I cannot even begin to tell you.

00:25:47   -All right, before we wrap up, just the Mac Pro Tower,

00:25:50   before we get to the display,

00:25:51   let's just cover the price of just the tower

00:25:53   before we talk about any of that stuff.

00:25:55   All they said about the price, as far as I'm aware --

00:25:57   and it's not even on their website anymore, I think --

00:25:59   is $5,999 for the base config,

00:26:02   which is a thousand more than I thought it would be.

00:26:04   It comes with 32 gigs of RAM, which is fine.

00:26:06   It comes with 256-gig SSD, which is garbage.

00:26:09   And it comes with the Radeon 580X, which I guess is fine.

00:26:13   But that SSD, that really hurts for a $6,000 computer.

00:26:16   That really hurts.

00:26:17   -Yeah, 'cause, like, the iMac Pro,

00:26:18   they started a terabyte for $1,000 less

00:26:21   with the built-in monitor.

00:26:22   That's really good.

00:26:23   So this pricing, it hurts.

00:26:26   But I think, you know, modern Apple,

00:26:29   it's like the project-management triangle.

00:26:31   It's like, you know, the fast, cheap, and good pick-two.

00:26:33   With Apple, it's like, you know, does it exist?

00:26:37   And is it too expensive?

00:26:39   You know, pick one, I guess.

00:26:41   It's the project-management line segment.

00:26:43   -Let's put it this way.

00:26:44   Like, what we got is, like, it is expandable.

00:26:46   It is upgradeable.

00:26:47   It has all the capabilities.

00:26:49   But the default config is no good.

00:26:51   And they didn't give us any more pricing.

00:26:53   And as far as I could tell in the mad dash

00:26:55   running around today, there is no place on the website

00:26:57   where you can say, "But what would it cost

00:26:58   for me to get the 4-terabyte SSD?

00:27:00   What would it cost for me to upgrade the GPU?"

00:27:02   All we've got is that one number, which is 6K

00:27:04   for the base config, just for this tower,

00:27:06   which is not completely unreasonable.

00:27:08   Again, $1,000 more than I thought it would be.

00:27:10   The upgrades will probably cost about what they do

00:27:12   on the iMac Pro.

00:27:13   So at this point in the presentation,

00:27:16   I was like, "Great. They did it.

00:27:17   It's the mega-greater.

00:27:18   It has all the things. It has all the ports.

00:27:20   I don't really know anything about the GPUs

00:27:22   they were talking about, but there sure didn't be a lot of them.

00:27:24   They seemed to be super proud of them."

00:27:25   And I was like, "Good. Fine. I believe you."

00:27:28   And it's available in the fall, which ends on December 20th.

00:27:32   So there's... [ Laughter ]

00:27:34   ...your deadline.

00:27:35   -So we'll see you at your local Apple store on the 19th.

00:27:37   -Well, I mean, I feel like we should take a break before that,

00:27:39   but we will get to the display after,

00:27:41   which is a more problematic area.

00:27:44   [ Laughter ]

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00:30:19   [ Cheers and applause ]

00:30:22   -All right, John, what's next?

00:30:27   -The display.

00:30:28   -So I have to -- Let me interrupt you, actually.

00:30:30   So at this point, sitting next to John,

00:30:33   the excitement is palpable.

00:30:36   He's buzzing.

00:30:37   -I was also Googling "cripophobia."

00:30:39   But, yeah.

00:30:40   -Oh, God. Why?

00:30:41   -That's also true.

00:30:42   -Don't.

00:30:43   -With all the highs, there come lows,

00:30:45   and we'll find another low in a minute.

00:30:46   -We're putting this link in the show notes.

00:30:47   You know, just don't tap it.

00:30:48   -Don't click it. Don't do it.

00:30:49   -We're not linking to that. No.

00:30:51   -It's got to go on the -- I might be mispronouncing it.

00:30:53   People need to know.

00:30:54   The Wikipedia page is safe.

00:30:55   It's mostly text.

00:30:56   -Anyway, just let's move on.

00:30:58   -Where's that Tito's?

00:30:59   -Yeah, it's right here. Here. Here. Feel free.

00:31:02   But anyway, the point is, John is so happy at this point.

00:31:07   He's so excited.

00:31:08   And then we start talking about the display,

00:31:10   and he's getting more excited.

00:31:14   Why were you so excited, John?

00:31:15   This display.

00:31:16   -Oh, I saw it early on.

00:31:17   In the intro video, I saw the display.

00:31:19   I saw it had the same matching weird holes thing,

00:31:21   but it was on the back.

00:31:22   And I saw the stand that it was on,

00:31:24   and the stand looked like an adjustable stand.

00:31:26   Like, in the intro video, I'm like, "Adjustable stand!

00:31:28   Adjustable stand! I can't believe it's going to happen."

00:31:30   -No, this is true.

00:31:31   He said this to me in the keynote,

00:31:33   and I'm like, "What are you even talking about?"

00:31:35   And he's losing his mind.

00:31:36   -I thought the slot in the back of the stand thingy

00:31:38   on the monitor was like that you would slide the monitor

00:31:40   up and down, and it would ride in that slot.

00:31:42   That is not the case.

00:31:43   It is an adjustable stand, but that's not the mechanism.

00:31:46   That slot in the back is just for when you rotate it,

00:31:48   which is awesome.

00:31:49   When you rotate it to portrait mode,

00:31:51   now you have a way to get at the ports.

00:31:53   Otherwise, they'd be hidden by the stand.

00:31:55   I think this whole design is also a little homely.

00:31:57   Like, the stand is very stout or whatever, but it's adjustable.

00:31:59   It's got, like, that weird spring-loaded thing

00:32:01   that the iMac G4 had in the arm

00:32:03   if anyone remembers that computer.

00:32:04   So I'm excited about the stand.

00:32:06   I was excited about the display.

00:32:08   It's not wide like we thought it was gonna be, right?

00:32:12   'Cause we -- Oh, this is so weird.

00:32:13   We could see them on stage.

00:32:14   Like, we're so -- We could -- You know, they were all on stage.

00:32:16   They wheeled them out during the video or whatever.

00:32:18   And I was like, "Those are the new monitors, right?

00:32:20   Did they come in two sizes? 'Cause they look so small."

00:32:22   'Cause we were so far away. Did you get that impression?

00:32:24   -I did, actually. And we had been --

00:32:26   The rumors that we had heard were that they were crazy wide,

00:32:29   and that -- Maybe it is the case.

00:32:31   I mean, well, you tell me. You've seen them.

00:32:32   -Foilers, they are really big. -They are, okay.

00:32:34   Because for a distance -- -From the audience in the keynote,

00:32:36   they look so tiny. -Yeah, they really honestly did.

00:32:38   -Yeah, but then we knew they weren't wide,

00:32:40   and then they announced what the size they were,

00:32:42   and they showed that diagram.

00:32:43   Here's the 4K display. Here's the 5K.

00:32:45   And here's the 6K.

00:32:46   And the 6K is just bigger than the 5K

00:32:48   in the exact same dimension.

00:32:49   So it's like -- It's everything that we wanted out of a monitor.

00:32:51   I said I want it to be higher-res than the 5K,

00:32:54   and I preferred it not to be ultra-wide,

00:32:56   and it's not. It's the same proportions.

00:32:58   I don't have to look at the back of it.

00:33:00   The stand is adjustable. I was super excited.

00:33:02   Then they went through, like, the specs on it,

00:33:04   which are pretty amazing.

00:33:05   Like, the 1,000-nit sustained is --

00:33:07   I mean, it's not that good in the grand scheme

00:33:09   of LED backlit televisions or whatever,

00:33:11   but it's good for something with the claimed specs

00:33:13   that they have.

00:33:14   And by the way, we talked about this in the show before.

00:33:16   The tech they have is like --

00:33:17   The backlight is broken up into little segments,

00:33:19   and they just turn the segments on that they need to turn on

00:33:22   so you can have blacker areas

00:33:23   where they turn the backlight off.

00:33:25   That's not as good as OLED.

00:33:26   The segments in the behind the screen

00:33:28   are not the size of a pixel.

00:33:30   I don't know how many there are,

00:33:31   but they look to be maybe like a centimeter or two square.

00:33:34   -574. -There we go.

00:33:36   -Wow. -574 in the back.

00:33:37   -Very impressive. -So 574 is good,

00:33:39   but that's not even close to a number of pixels.

00:33:41   So OLED is still better.

00:33:42   So in TV terms, this is not --

00:33:44   You know, that's what I talked about, minimizing, blooming.

00:33:46   That's like if you had a completely black screen

00:33:48   and then just white text in the middle.

00:33:49   They have to turn on the segments

00:33:51   that are behind that white text,

00:33:53   but there's going to be segments

00:33:54   that they turn on in the backlight

00:33:55   that aren't behind text that are behind black,

00:33:57   so they're trying to reduce that bloom or whatever.

00:33:59   So it supports HDR, wide color, 10-bit color,

00:34:02   all the great things they can do.

00:34:04   It's got a fan in it.

00:34:05   -Two fans in it. Oh, no.

00:34:07   -I thought it was just one.

00:34:08   -I was wondering, I was hoping there were speakers,

00:34:11   but they're fans.

00:34:12   -I'm assuming it was going to be quiet,

00:34:13   but at this point, I'm still excited about them.

00:34:15   Like, they're doing what they could do.

00:34:16   They can't make an OLED that big with that resolution

00:34:18   because, yeah, you can make an OLED,

00:34:20   but it can't be like 6K in a 32-inch thing.

00:34:22   I don't think that's even possible technologically,

00:34:24   and if it was, it would cost even more money,

00:34:26   but we'll get to that in a second.

00:34:29   And, you know, so good.

00:34:31   Everything's -- I'm getting the Mac Pro that I want.

00:34:33   I'm getting the monitor I want,

00:34:34   and then they started talking about the price.

00:34:37   -Let me just hand you this bottle of Tito's, John.

00:34:39   -If I drank, I would be drinking that.

00:34:43   -Yeah, that's a lot of money.

00:34:46   -Also, before we even get to the real things that hurt,

00:34:49   they did mention, "Oh, we have this matte option,"

00:34:52   which is neat. Like, they've talked to pros.

00:34:54   Some people like the glossy finish, like, on the 5K iMac.

00:34:57   Some people like matte. Great to offer both.

00:34:59   I was like, "Oh, no. Now I'm going to have to choose.

00:35:01   Do I want the matte or not?

00:35:02   I can't really decide because I like the 5K iMac."

00:35:04   My office doesn't have a lot of glare.

00:35:06   It's not a big deal.

00:35:07   Or maybe I'll have this cool nano texture,

00:35:09   like, "We didn't want to put a surface finish on it.

00:35:11   We're going to texture it with lasers or whatever."

00:35:13   Like, great. Good job, Apple.

00:35:15   And then I think this is the point where they said --

00:35:17   And so the standard one is $5,000.

00:35:20   I'm like, "Oh, that really hurts. That really hurts."

00:35:23   And then they said, "And then the nano-textured one is $6,000."

00:35:27   I'm like, "What?"

00:35:29   -I kid you not, ladies and gentlemen --

00:35:31   and I know you can't hear this, or you can't see me on the show --

00:35:34   but his head fell into his hands in just utter misery.

00:35:39   -I mean, it's $1,000 for a matte display option.

00:35:42   It's like they're trolling us. Remember?

00:35:43   We were like, "I don't like your glossy screens.

00:35:45   I would pay $100 extra for a matte option if you gave it to me."

00:35:48   He's like, "Would you pay $1,000?"

00:35:50   -Yeah.

00:35:51   And the answer is, like, "Probably not.

00:35:54   Like, Jesus Christ."

00:35:56   -Well, and then my favorite part...

00:36:00   [ Laughter ]

00:36:03   My favorite part of this keynote was, after that,

00:36:06   they, as quickly as possible, said, "And the stand is $999."

00:36:12   -Oh. -And then they basically ran off the stage.

00:36:17   -Yeah. -Yeah.

00:36:18   -And I've never seen Tim Cook speak faster

00:36:21   than when he introduced the next segment after that.

00:36:23   It was like, "We want to sweep that right away."

00:36:26   -Yeah, and that was the word.

00:36:27   I'm just recovering when I'm in the matte thing.

00:36:29   And I thought I had misheard it.

00:36:31   Like, I thought I heard that the stand was $200,

00:36:33   which I'm like, "Oh, it's such an expensive monitor."

00:36:35   And then the stand is $200. What a rip-off.

00:36:38   It was only, like, after the keynote was over

00:36:40   that it looked at the prices like, "No. No."

00:36:44   The Visa mount, Jason Snell, is $200.

00:36:48   The Visa mount -- So, if you buy the monitor,

00:36:50   like, it's just a loose monitor.

00:36:52   You can just chuck it on your floor.

00:36:53   Like, you can lean it against your wall.

00:36:56   You can prop it up against the books or something.

00:36:58   You can have, like, a small child hold it up for you.

00:37:02   But you can't connect it to anything

00:37:07   if you want a Visa-mounted $200.

00:37:09   And if you want that stand, a stand is $1,000.

00:37:13   What is it made out of?

00:37:15   They used to sell you an entire iMac G4 for $1,700.

00:37:19   It came with an arm that's cooler than that one

00:37:21   and a whole computer and a whole monitor attached to it.

00:37:24   I don't understand what's going on.

00:37:27   It doesn't make any sense to me.

00:37:29   Like, it's just really hurting me,

00:37:32   because I want that monitor.

00:37:33   Who doesn't want the monitor?

00:37:34   It's better than a 5K iMac, like, we all wanted.

00:37:37   I want this Mac, and I want this monitor.

00:37:40   But those prices don't -- I can't process them.

00:37:42   -It's almost, John, as though they said,

00:37:45   "You want a Mac Pro? Well, screw you.

00:37:48   Here's your Mac Pro." -But it's not the Mac Pro.

00:37:50   We talked about the Mac Pro, like,

00:37:51   "So, off by 1,000, fine," right?

00:37:53   It's the monitor. And, like, fine, the monitor's expensive.

00:37:55   "Oh, it's $5,000, $6,000 for the silly mat option."

00:37:58   The stand? That's a bridge to far.

00:38:01   We never had a second move.

00:38:02   How much do you think the stand will cost?

00:38:04   It's not -- Yeah.

00:38:06   No one is even thinking that.

00:38:07   They're finding, "What's next?"

00:38:09   The monitor's gonna come, but there's gonna be no cable,

00:38:11   and the cable to connect it is $1,500?

00:38:14   I don't -- Here's what I hope.

00:38:16   This is coming out in the fall.

00:38:17   I hope between now and then, somehow, someone says,

00:38:20   "Come on. Come on.

00:38:22   Like, give us a discount if you buy both the monitor and the stand."

00:38:25   For all those people who are just gonna buy the stand

00:38:26   and, like, pet it every day and plant orchids on it,

00:38:29   if you buy the monitor with the stand,

00:38:31   we give you some kind of combination discount.

00:38:33   -Yeah, like, if you want --

00:38:35   Like, when they did the stand thing and they blew right by it,

00:38:38   I was like, "Surely they mean an extra one,"

00:38:41   'cause they talked about, like,

00:38:42   you can take it off and bring it with you,

00:38:43   so you would have a second one.

00:38:44   -Yeah, it happens magnetically. It would be cool.

00:38:46   We weren't all, like, incensed at the price.

00:38:47   -Yeah, unfortunately, that's not what they meant.

00:38:50   They meant the first one.

00:38:52   So, if you want the matte configuration,

00:38:55   which, by the way, I got to say, I've seen these.

00:38:57   "You want the matte configuration."

00:38:58   I'll get to that in a second, but, like,

00:39:00   if you want the matte configuration

00:39:01   and you don't have a small trial to hold it up for you,

00:39:03   it's gonna be $7,000.

00:39:05   -For a screen. For a screen.

00:39:07   That's just nuts. -And, you know, in context,

00:39:09   like, when the 30-inch first came out,

00:39:11   it was, what, like $3,000, $3,500, something like that?

00:39:13   -Camo stand.

00:39:14   [ Laughter ]

00:39:16   -Touche, sir. Touche.

00:39:18   -And it was matte.

00:39:20   -Yeah. And it was matte. Yeah.

00:39:22   Yeah, like, you know, if you do, like, inflation-adjusted,

00:39:24   you don't really get there, I don't think.

00:39:26   But if you do the modern Apple of,

00:39:28   "It's 40% more than you want it to be,"

00:39:31   it's still pretty expensive, actually.

00:39:32   I can't even justify it this way.

00:39:34   -No, you can't. Like, 40% is under sight.

00:39:36   -But, yeah, but I got to say, though,

00:39:38   it's a really nice screen.

00:39:40   -I hope so. -I wonder if Marco will get one.

00:39:43   -Yeah, exactly.

00:39:45   -The only question is how many.

00:39:47   [ Laughter ]

00:39:49   -You can connect six.

00:39:51   You can surround your room with them.

00:39:53   Like, get them without the stand.

00:39:55   You can use them as wainscoting, just like...

00:39:57   -Yeah, right.

00:39:59   I'm pretty sure you could heat your room with those two.

00:40:01   -That's true. -But, no, it --

00:40:03   So, three things will jump out at you about this.

00:40:05   Number one, it is significantly larger than you think it is.

00:40:09   It's similar to when we went from 24-inch monitors

00:40:12   to 30-inch monitors.

00:40:14   It's a similar jump, not quite as much, relatively speaking,

00:40:18   but it's similarly like, "Wow, that's a lot of screen space."

00:40:21   So if you're always running out of screen space

00:40:23   and you don't want to spend $7,000

00:40:25   on getting, like, six or seven other monitors

00:40:27   that you can arrange in a nice grid,

00:40:29   this is a really, like, compelling solution.

00:40:32   If you want it all on one screen

00:40:34   and you would love to set money on fire.

00:40:36   So -- Which actually kind of matches me, if I'm honest.

00:40:39   -I was thinking it, but I didn't want to say it.

00:40:40   -I do like one screen. Yeah. Anyway, so --

00:40:43   So -- And it also -- I wasn't blown away by, like,

00:40:46   the contrast, the colors. Yeah, they're nice. That's fine.

00:40:48   I don't have, I guess, the eye to really care

00:40:50   the way Jon would about, like, you know, that kind of stuff.

00:40:52   But you do notice the thing -- What they said about there being,

00:40:56   like, this extreme viewing angle is true.

00:40:58   Like, I actually -- I was, like, moving my head back and forth,

00:41:01   like, going all the way to the side.

00:41:02   I took some videos of, like, going, like, all the way to the side.

00:41:04   And you see that screen clear as day

00:41:08   until it is not -- until you're, like, at 90 degrees from it

00:41:11   when it's physically blocked from your site.

00:41:13   The viewing angle is crazy good.

00:41:15   The lamination does indeed make it look like

00:41:18   it is painted on the surface of that screen.

00:41:20   It is a really nice screen.

00:41:22   And it took me a while to find a matte screen.

00:41:25   Like, I was, like, asking around, "Are any of these matte?

00:41:27   Is that one matte?" Like, I kept asking around.

00:41:30   No one knew if there were any.

00:41:31   Finally, I got to -- There was a pair in the photo area

00:41:34   that was matte.

00:41:35   And I could see it side by side, look at videos of it,

00:41:37   look at how it went to the light and everything.

00:41:39   It's glorious.

00:41:41   -Oh, no. -Because, you know,

00:41:43   like, everything that Colleen said on stage was true.

00:41:47   That was Colleen Novielli from "Upgrade," actually.

00:41:50   And also, she works on the iMac and other stuff.

00:41:53   So everything she said was true about, like, you know,

00:41:56   usually matte films or coatings.

00:41:59   It's just like what we went through

00:42:01   with the matte screen pictures for iPad.

00:42:02   Like, matte coatings do usually have

00:42:04   that kind of rainbow-noise look,

00:42:06   and there's a reason why we haven't seen

00:42:07   a lot of them in the retina era.

00:42:08   They don't look very good.

00:42:09   This looked nothing like those.

00:42:12   It truly looked like there was no trade-off at all.

00:42:15   There was no downside besides $1,000.

00:42:17   But there was no other downside.

00:42:19   You didn't lose a good deal of color

00:42:22   or brightness or sharpness.

00:42:23   There was none of that.

00:42:24   It was just substantially less reflective

00:42:27   than the other ones.

00:42:28   -The only purpose this serves is when trying to negotiate

00:42:31   about someone else in your life

00:42:33   who cares about how much money you spend.

00:42:35   It's like, "Look, how about this?

00:42:37   How about I don't get the matte,

00:42:39   and with the savings, I get a stand?"

00:42:41   [ Laughter ]

00:42:44   Now suddenly it's reasonable.

00:42:46   -I just think -- I can't imagine.

00:42:51   -In conclusion, wow, that's expensive,

00:42:55   but it's really nice.

00:42:57   -And the system as a whole, like, to wrap this up,

00:43:00   this -- we wanted them to make, like, you know,

00:43:03   Halo car, the most powerful Mac ever,

00:43:06   something that has a reason to exist separate from the iMac.

00:43:08   Like, they did all that.

00:43:10   They put a stake in the ground way at the high end,

00:43:13   which is absolutely what we wanted them to do,

00:43:15   no doubt about it.

00:43:16   It's not like they had any half measures.

00:43:18   They put it really far in the ground,

00:43:21   like, far up high, way to the right

00:43:23   on the super-most expensive thing,

00:43:24   which is, I think, what they had to do.

00:43:25   You don't want to come out with your middle of the room.

00:43:26   You don't want to come out with your middle-of-the-road thing.

00:43:27   No one is looking at this and saying,

00:43:28   "Yeah, but why would I want this

00:43:30   when I can have an iMac Pro?"

00:43:32   That's not a question anybody's asking.

00:43:34   So I think, in general, this is a rousing success,

00:43:37   but they put it at such high end

00:43:40   that I feel like they made room.

00:43:41   They made room between the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro.

00:43:45   Like, there's room for, I don't know,

00:43:47   a more reasonably priced Mac Pro.

00:43:49   Same thing with the monitor.

00:43:50   Like, who would like a 6K monitor

00:43:52   but doesn't care about 10-bit color, right?

00:43:54   Lots of people, but Apple doesn't make that product.

00:43:56   So they've now done what we said

00:43:58   and staked out the high ground,

00:44:00   and then iMac Pro is like the mid-range now or whatever,

00:44:03   and then everything else is garbage.

00:44:04   Down to the bottom.

00:44:05   And now there's this big gap

00:44:07   where you could make a computer

00:44:09   that is less gargantuan than their top of the line, right?

00:44:13   So I don't anticipate anything like that,

00:44:15   but I feel like just --

00:44:17   I know what the audience is planning to buy is a computer.

00:44:19   You shouldn't buy this computer.

00:44:20   They're going to transition to ARM,

00:44:21   and it's going to be useless,

00:44:22   and you're going to have spent, like, 12 grand

00:44:23   on something that's --

00:44:24   Like, buy it if you know you're going to make money

00:44:26   on contracts for your actual work with it,

00:44:29   such that it makes sense to buy this now

00:44:32   and, you know, use it for three or four years.

00:44:34   Don't buy it. Expecting to use it for 10 years, Mike,

00:44:37   because you won't.

00:44:39   You know, buy it if you're Marco, right?

00:44:41   Buy it if you've waited 10 years to get one

00:44:43   and this is your hobby or whatever.

00:44:44   But, like, this is so high-end

00:44:46   that you know if you need this computer.

00:44:48   Most people don't, and that's why I feel like

00:44:50   there is this gap that they could potentially --

00:44:51   They could fill it with a revised iMac Pro

00:44:53   because there's still room to revise that thing.

00:44:55   But, overall, I'm very happy that they planted their flag.

00:44:58   There is a new biggest, baddest Mac.

00:45:01   No one is disputing that this is the biggest, baddest Mac.

00:45:04   It's a little ugly. Super expensive.

00:45:06   But, overall, I'm very happy.

00:45:08   -All right, so I would like to know what your buying plan is,

00:45:10   but perhaps we should take a quick break.

00:45:12   And I also have another question before that, too.

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00:47:33   -All right, so God help me

00:47:35   for continuing this conversation any longer,

00:47:37   but I actually have a question.

00:47:38   Who is this computer for?

00:47:40   Because we're all developers, the three of us,

00:47:43   and most of the people in the room, actually,

00:47:45   and so our natural inclination is to say,

00:47:47   "Well, of course it's for us,"

00:47:48   but it seemed to me like Apple thinks

00:47:51   that this computer is for, like, the Todd Vaziris of the world

00:47:55   who are doing, like, video editing

00:47:57   or perhaps photo editing or something like that,

00:47:59   so do you feel -- and I'll start with Marco --

00:48:02   do you feel like this is a computer for your role?

00:48:06   Of course it's a computer for Marco,

00:48:08   but is it a computer for you as a software developer?

00:48:12   -Probably not. -Right, exactly.

00:48:15   -I think, you know, obviously there's gonna be high-end needs

00:48:17   where, like, if you are actually spending a lot of time all day

00:48:20   waiting on your compiler

00:48:21   while it's maxing out all of your cores

00:48:23   or if you have high-end GPU needs,

00:48:25   like, you know, there are people who this is for,

00:48:27   but honestly, they needed to do

00:48:30   what we thought was gonna be very challenging,

00:48:32   which is differentiate this from the iMac Pro somehow,

00:48:35   and the iMac Pro has to justify itself

00:48:37   above the regular iMac, which, you know,

00:48:39   the regular iMac is great.

00:48:40   I used one for years as my main computer,

00:48:42   you know, developing most of Overcast during that time.

00:48:44   Like, it was great.

00:48:45   Most people are fine with the regular iMac.

00:48:48   They don't even need the Pro.

00:48:50   The iMac Pro is awesome.

00:48:53   It is by far my favorite computer I've ever owned.

00:48:56   I'm extremely happy with it, and if I wasn't me,

00:48:59   I would just stick with it.

00:49:01   Like, but of course I have to buy the Mac Pro.

00:49:03   I just have to, but honestly, like, the iMac Pro is fantastic

00:49:06   and covers so much of that middle ground.

00:49:09   I actually don't, like, you know,

00:49:10   John was saying a few minutes ago,

00:49:11   like, that there's this kind of a gap left

00:49:13   between it and the Mac Pro.

00:49:14   I don't think there's that much of a gap there.

00:49:16   The iMac Pro, I mean, we'll have to see, I guess,

00:49:18   when pricing comes out for the Mac Pro configurations,

00:49:20   but the iMac Pro is really good

00:49:22   and covers a huge range of needs

00:49:24   that aren't covered by the base iMac,

00:49:26   which itself covers almost everyone's needs.

00:49:28   So I would say this computer is for,

00:49:31   again, the money-fire crowd, but also just

00:49:34   if you really know that you need it.

00:49:36   And this is why, like, the visual appeal of it,

00:49:38   and largely the price of it, aren't that relevant,

00:49:42   because, like, the people buying it are not, like,

00:49:45   individuals who are saving up their pennies for 10 years

00:49:48   while they, you know, while they justify having, like,

00:49:51   a tower, like, that's not who this is for.

00:49:54   You can get it anyway, please, John, you will get it, but.

00:49:56   - And so those people who are buying

00:49:57   the $43,000 reference monitor,

00:49:59   they don't care about a $1,000 stand.

00:50:00   Like, it's like when you buy anything

00:50:01   for those sort of studio environments

00:50:03   or even just office equipment,

00:50:04   that just everything costs a bazillion dollars.

00:50:06   Like, yeah, there's probably a little chance

00:50:07   of them complaining about the prices.

00:50:09   They'd be like, whatever, just put it on our bill,

00:50:11   like, with all the rest of our stuff.

00:50:13   But, yeah, that's who it's for,

00:50:14   for people who know they need it.

00:50:16   All those people in the pro labs are like,

00:50:18   we want all these slots to put all these cards in.

00:50:20   We do this stuff with 8K video.

00:50:22   We want to do multiple streams

00:50:23   without having a proxy workflow

00:50:24   where we have to convert it to another format

00:50:26   and work with it in that format.

00:50:27   And, like, that's who it's for.

00:50:29   And here's the thing, those people's needs

00:50:31   were not met by the iMac Pro.

00:50:32   Right?

00:50:33   So this is not a computer that's looking for an audience.

00:50:35   It has an audience.

00:50:36   The audience influenced its design

00:50:38   and turned it into what it is.

00:50:40   The reason I think there's a gap is, you know,

00:50:41   there's always some gap, right?

00:50:42   You can always look at this and say,

00:50:44   give it to me with half the slots,

00:50:45   with only one MPX slot in it,

00:50:48   and with, like, a smaller, less fancy case,

00:50:51   and give me a 6K monitor that's not as fancy as this one,

00:50:54   that's just a regular LCD panel.

00:50:55   It's like the 5K panel, but it's 6K.

00:50:57   Apple won't make that computer, probably,

00:50:59   but that's where the gap is

00:51:00   between the iMac Pro, like, a modular computer

00:51:02   that is still more expandable than the iMac Pro,

00:51:04   but that doesn't have all the fancy things

00:51:06   that these people say they needed, right?

00:51:08   And it's not a big gap.

00:51:09   Like, probably they're not ever gonna make that computer.

00:51:12   It's fine to have this thing out on the high end,

00:51:14   and it's well differentiated,

00:51:15   and the more they fill the gap,

00:51:17   the less differentiation there is.

00:51:18   But I think the gap is there.

00:51:20   But no, there's no question about who this is for.

00:51:23   People who this is for know it's for them,

00:51:25   and they're the ones who made it what it is.

00:51:28   Everything maybe except, like, the weird holes in it, right?

00:51:31   Even the wheels, when I saw the wheels,

00:51:33   like, someone told them that.

00:51:34   Someone told them they have to roll things around

00:51:35   and they had to edit them,

00:51:36   and I'm like, "That's a good idea."

00:51:37   Putting wheels on it seems stupid.

00:51:38   That's a good idea for the customers that want it.

00:51:40   Same thing with rack-mounting.

00:51:42   I don't think this is a product without a customer.

00:51:44   - No, definitely not.

00:51:45   And the reality is, like, the customers who buy it,

00:51:48   six grand, seven grand, that's a drop in the bucket.

00:51:51   Like, if you're editing 8K footage,

00:51:53   your 8K camera probably costs a substantial amount of money.

00:51:57   The lenses you're using on that probably cost

00:51:59   a substantial amount of money.

00:52:00   - Pelican cases you carry it in

00:52:01   probably cost more than that stand.

00:52:03   - Yeah, right, exactly.

00:52:04   Like, the crew that you have to hire to film this

00:52:07   cost way more than six grand.

00:52:09   Like, you're dealing with industries that

00:52:11   this cost is totally worth it to them

00:52:14   because of the time it saves them

00:52:16   or the things it allows them to do

00:52:17   or the, like, ruggedness or the sure thing

00:52:19   that it offers and the reliability.

00:52:21   Like, these kind of products have this kind of market.

00:52:24   And every special industry, like, you know,

00:52:26   AV, you know, scientific stuff,

00:52:28   there is definitely a market.

00:52:29   The market is just not the kind of person

00:52:31   who likes to just buy a PC tower and expand it over time.

00:52:34   And that does leave people behind.

00:52:36   But the fact is, Apple left those people behind in 2012,

00:52:39   not today.

00:52:40   - Well put.

00:52:41   - And Apple's never gonna make the X Mac

00:52:44   that everybody wants.

00:52:45   They're never gonna make, like,

00:52:46   the $1200 mid-tower that has slots.

00:52:48   - But they did make the Mac Pro.

00:52:50   Like, those cheese graters actually did fall

00:52:52   in this middle slot because they were

00:52:53   kind of good for the high end,

00:52:55   but they didn't go as far as this thing goes, right?

00:52:57   And they did extend out.

00:52:58   They always had, like I said, the stripper model,

00:53:00   the low end Mac Pro, where it was the same case, right?

00:53:02   - They think it's funny too.

00:53:03   - But it only had one CPU instead of two, right?

00:53:05   Like, so, it's not like they've never been down

00:53:07   in that realm, it's just that, like, they shouldn't.

00:53:09   They shouldn't be down there right now.

00:53:10   They should plant the flag, which they did.

00:53:12   Maybe we'll see if they fill in that other area.

00:53:14   It also depends on how fast they update this,

00:53:15   what kind of, like, update cycle is it on.

00:53:17   Are they gonna bump the GPUs in this

00:53:18   every time a new GPU comes out?

00:53:20   Are they gonna put it on a yearly cycle?

00:53:21   Is it so pro that they can go two years between

00:53:25   because it's so expandable that their customers don't care?

00:53:26   You know, I don't know, we'll see.

00:53:28   - And also, like, you know, the time

00:53:30   where the cheese grater came out in 2006,

00:53:33   that was a very different time in hardware than it is today.

00:53:37   Like, back then, you needed a big expandable tower

00:53:40   with the four drive bays and everything

00:53:42   just to get really good performance.

00:53:43   This was before SSDs, laptops, CPUs still pretty much sucked.

00:53:47   Like, well, they kind of still do,

00:53:49   but it was before a lot of modern advances

00:53:51   and back when we still were really pushing

00:53:54   our hardware to its limits, even for common use cases.

00:53:56   So back then, a lot more people wanted/needed

00:54:00   an expandable tower, but that market

00:54:02   has really dwindled over time, and on the PC side,

00:54:05   you have gamers that want that.

00:54:06   Apple does not care about that market at all,

00:54:08   and they never have, and the Mac Pro

00:54:09   never solved that very well.

00:54:11   - Very good, it was awesome.

00:54:13   - And beyond gamers, you don't really have

00:54:14   a lot of people who really need tower performance.

00:54:16   Most people seem to be satisfied by laptops or iMacs.

00:54:18   So if they're gonna make this computer,

00:54:21   they don't really need to address the old people

00:54:23   who want towers, 'cause those people

00:54:25   mostly aren't there or have mostly moved to PCs.

00:54:27   And there's also, like, you have to consider,

00:54:30   like, this is Apple.

00:54:32   Apple needs this to be worthwhile for them.

00:54:35   I think the way they made the iMac Pro

00:54:38   worthwhile to them was by starting it

00:54:40   at the terabyte, 32 gig configuration,

00:54:43   and therefore being able to price it at $5,000.

00:54:46   So the cheapest iMac Pro you can buy is $5,000,

00:54:50   and I think Apple kind of made that worthwhile

00:54:52   on their spreadsheet to make this product

00:54:55   by saying, well, we're not gonna sell this in large volume.

00:54:58   We're gonna milk every penny of the people who want it, right?

00:55:00   And I think this is a more extreme step in that direction.

00:55:03   They need the Mac Pro to be worth it.

00:55:05   They've already eaten away a lot of its market share

00:55:07   with laptops, iMacs, and iMacs, and iMac Pros.

00:55:10   So they're gonna sell not a high volume of these things,

00:55:14   and so it needs to be worth it to them.

00:55:15   So of course they're gonna make it extraordinarily expensive.

00:55:18   Same deal with the display.

00:55:19   Most people don't buy high-end displays anymore.

00:55:21   So it's gonna sell in low quantities.

00:55:23   So if making these things cost a car is gonna be --

00:55:28   is what Apple needs to justify making these products,

00:55:32   yeah, it sucks when it comes time to pay for it,

00:55:34   and it's gonna leave a lot of people out.

00:55:36   But the alternative is the spreadsheet saying,

00:55:39   "Don't make these products at all."

00:55:41   So if given that choice on the project management line segment,

00:55:44   I pick this.

00:55:45   This is better than not having these products at all,

00:55:47   and that really was gonna be our alternative.

00:55:49   That's right. Better than not existing at all.

00:55:52   The new Mac Pro.

00:55:53   That's glowing endorsement.

00:55:55   All right, so with that in mind, John, are you going to buy one?

00:56:00   I mean, I need to get to the point

00:56:02   where I can do a configurator, you know,

00:56:03   like, see what the things are.

00:56:05   It was like, "The monitor -- we know what the monitor is,

00:56:06   and it's rough, but, like, can I swing that?"

00:56:08   It really depends on when I go

00:56:10   and upgrade the tower to reasonable specs,

00:56:13   'cause there's no way I'm getting it with a 256-gig SSD.

00:56:16   Like, when I increase the video card to, like,

00:56:18   the second-best option with just the one GPU but the good GPU,

00:56:21   and when I increase the storage,

00:56:22   like, how much does it all come to?

00:56:24   And we're assuming --

00:56:26   I mean, I'm probably gonna let Marco go first.

00:56:28   Like, we're assuming all this stuff is actually reliable

00:56:30   and not finicky and not weird, right?

00:56:32   'Cause there's a potential it could be finicky and weird.

00:56:34   Like, that, you know, happened with the trash can, right?

00:56:36   So my plan is to price it out and see if I could swing it.

00:56:39   I definitely want it.

00:56:40   I don't want to get it and then have it be finicky,

00:56:42   'cause then I'll be super pissed.

00:56:44   So probably Marco will get it first,

00:56:46   and he will be our guinea pig,

00:56:48   and while he is telling us what it's like,

00:56:50   I will be configuring it every day

00:56:52   and looking at my bank account and then configuring it

00:56:54   and looking at my bank account and configuring it

00:56:56   and just doing that.

00:56:57   -Do you think they're gonna sell 10-year AppleCare?

00:56:59   -The AppleCare -- This is the best AppleCare

00:57:01   do you ever get.

00:57:02   I think it's, like, 200 bucks for three years of AppleCare

00:57:04   on your $20,000 computer.

00:57:06   Ugh. I don't...

00:57:07   -That is actually an interesting question.

00:57:10   There is at least a feasible possibility,

00:57:13   a legitimate possibility,

00:57:14   that you will pay as much for a computer

00:57:16   as you did for your car.

00:57:18   -Nah, no. That's not gonna happen.

00:57:20   -I don't know, man. I don't know.

00:57:21   -My wife is listening to this now somehow.

00:57:23   I was gonna say, "No, that's not going to happen."

00:57:25   [ Laughter ]

00:57:27   -How do you not buy the display? That's my question.

00:57:29   -No, you have to buy the display.

00:57:31   Like, I'm not buying this thing without the display.

00:57:33   It's either I'm getting it all or I'm not getting it.

00:57:35   -And to be clear, I'm not saying to you, the audience,

00:57:37   how do you not buy it, because nobody should buy it.

00:57:39   -How does a Marco not buy the display?

00:57:41   -No, how do you?

00:57:42   You're not gonna look at a Dell monitor.

00:57:44   -No, because then what monitor would you get with it?

00:57:46   If you just get the tower and you're like,

00:57:47   "Well, I got this awesome tower.

00:57:48   What, are you connected to that LG 5K?"

00:57:50   No, thanks. -No, exactly.

00:57:52   Like an animal. -Like an animal.

00:57:54   So, Marco, I guess my question for you is,

00:57:57   are you buying a monitor for home and for the beach?

00:58:01   Are you buying only one stand

00:58:04   and visa mounting in the other location?

00:58:06   Like, how many of these things are you buying

00:58:08   is I think what we're really wanting to know.

00:58:11   -Is the answer what I should buy?

00:58:13   -No, the answer is what are you going to do.

00:58:15   -Or what I will buy. -Yeah.

00:58:16   Because we all know what you should buy.

00:58:17   -What I should buy is none of this.

00:58:18   I should just keep my iMac Pro, because it's awesome,

00:58:20   and it satisfies all my needs, and it's relatively portable.

00:58:23   -Yeah, you have a great carrying case.

00:58:25   -Exactly. Compared to this,

00:58:26   it's way easier to bring it out there,

00:58:28   so actually I shouldn't buy any of this.

00:58:30   -That being said...

00:58:32   -So, that being said, I'm almost certain to buy a Mac Pro.

00:58:36   I do want the monitor. I want the mat.

00:58:39   I want the stupid stand.

00:58:41   So I'm going to buy a $7,000 monitor,

00:58:43   and I feel really horrible saying that out loud,

00:58:46   but it's going to happen.

00:58:48   -We all know it's going to happen.

00:58:49   That's not up for grabs. -Yeah.

00:58:51   -Just one monitor?

00:58:53   -At least just one for home.

00:58:55   -Yeah, see? Here, here's where it gets you.

00:58:57   -I'm looking at Tiff now. Is he just buying one?

00:59:00   -Yeah, she's saying no.

00:59:02   -Tiff's saying no.

00:59:03   -It seems like you might be getting two of these.

00:59:04   -I mean, my beach plan with portability,

00:59:07   I think, is significantly hampered

00:59:09   by the bulk of this machine.

00:59:11   It's awfully large.

00:59:12   It really is about the same size as the cheese grater.

00:59:14   Like, it's that size class, at least,

00:59:15   and so it's very large, very heavy.

00:59:17   That's not going to, like, fit in a backpack

00:59:19   like the trash can kind of did.

00:59:20   Like, that's going to be a very big machine,

00:59:23   so I might not bring it back and forth to the beach.

00:59:25   I might just bring a laptop.

00:59:26   Who am I kidding? Maybe I'd get two.

00:59:28   Who knows? But my current plan...

00:59:32   -Oh, my God.

00:59:34   -My current plan is to just get between zero and one Mac Pros

00:59:39   and between one and two monitors.

00:59:41   -With Sans?

00:59:43   -Well, yeah, I'm not going to lean it against the wall.

00:59:45   -Well, you could get a Visa mount, man.

00:59:47   I mean, you could go the Jason Snell route.

00:59:49   -I've had the various, like, Visa arms and everything,

00:59:53   and I don't like them.

00:59:54   They're really crappy. -That's fair.

00:59:56   -There was a time and a place for them.

00:59:57   I used them a lot, like, during my PC days

01:00:00   when I had no taste.

01:00:01   And now my standards are precious and higher.

01:00:06   Just like Jon, like, kind of can't bear to use the LG

01:00:09   because it's kind of crappy.

01:00:10   Like, that's how I am with, like, third-party Stands.

01:00:12   I've used them for a long time.

01:00:14   I can't do that anymore.

01:00:16   I'd rather just keep my iMac Pro

01:00:18   than not get this monitor if I get the Mac Pro.

01:00:20   -Let me ask a legitimate question.

01:00:22   I thought during the keynote they said

01:00:24   that some of the modern Mac Book Pros

01:00:26   could drive this monitor. Did I make that up?

01:00:28   -They said the 50-inch can drive two of them.

01:00:30   I don't know, like, maybe --

01:00:31   I don't know if it's, like, just the most recent one.

01:00:33   I'm sure the tech note is up somewhere.

01:00:35   But I don't know if the 13-inch can.

01:00:37   But I think it probably could drive one, maybe, or zero.

01:00:40   Who knows? But the reality is, I mean,

01:00:42   if you're buying a $7,000 monitor,

01:00:44   is it that big of a deal

01:00:46   if it can't work with your $1,000 laptop?

01:00:48   -Well, but that's the thing.

01:00:49   Like, I can see a solution in the world of Marco

01:00:54   where you have a beach monitor --

01:00:56   -By "solution," you mean justification.

01:00:57   -Yeah, well, you have your daytime --

01:00:59   I mean, your beach monitor and your nighttime --

01:01:01   I mean, home monitor,

01:01:02   and you just bring your MacBook Pro back and forth

01:01:04   'cause that's easy and portable,

01:01:06   and the new MacBook Pros are getting ever faster.

01:01:09   -That is an option I probably should do.

01:01:12   And I did it for a couple summers.

01:01:14   I did that option.

01:01:15   I just hate the MacBook Pro so much right now.

01:01:17   And so maybe, you know, like, we'll see, like,

01:01:19   what changes this fall or this winter,

01:01:21   whenever the 16-inch -- if that's gonna happen,

01:01:23   if that comes out,

01:01:24   maybe that incorporates some of the screen stuff.

01:01:26   Maybe it's better in all these various ways.

01:01:28   I mean, look at all the computers they've designed

01:01:31   since these terrible things.

01:01:33   Since the 2016 MacBook Pro,

01:01:36   they've designed the new Mac Mini, which is awesome,

01:01:40   the iMac Pro, which is awesome,

01:01:42   the MacBook Air, which I think is kind of a half design,

01:01:45   which is okay, but it was only a half design,

01:01:48   and the Mac Pro, which is awesome.

01:01:51   So I actually have pretty high hopes

01:01:53   that they have their heads on right

01:01:54   for the next MacBook Pro, too.

01:01:55   So maybe the next MacBook Pro might change my mind

01:01:57   about what I need to be portable.

01:01:59   If I can get the beefy giant Mac Pro set up for home

01:02:01   and then just bring the MacBook Pro,

01:02:03   and I'll bring my crappy LG out there to die,

01:02:06   like, that might be the summer setup.

01:02:09   But for now, I guess we'll wait and see.

01:02:11   -$7,000 monitor, no Face ID built in.

01:02:14   That's another mild disappointment.

01:02:16   I guess Face ID is not a particularly important feature

01:02:19   to the customers who buy this, but I'm still kind of sad.

01:02:21   -Well, in two years, you can upgrade the monitor

01:02:23   and spend another $7,000 on Face ID.

01:02:25   -Well, it would only be six. You can keep the stand.

01:02:27   [ Laughter ]

01:02:29   [ Applause ]

01:02:32   -You think the next monitor is gonna work with this stand?

01:02:35   -No. [ Laughs ]

01:02:36   -I guess that is a little optimistic, if I'm honest.

01:02:39   -All right, Casey, you're the one to prolong this,

01:02:41   but I feel like we're done.

01:02:42   I feel like we've addressed the Mac Pro.

01:02:44   Happy Mac Pro Day, everybody.

01:02:46   -Yeah, happy Mac Pro Day, everyone.

01:02:47   And congratulations, John Siracusa.

01:02:50   [ Applause ]

01:02:51   -So happy. So, so incredibly happy.

01:02:54   All right, you want to do the last sponsor out of the way

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01:04:52   [ Applause ]

01:04:56   -So do we have time for anything else?

01:04:59   -There was so much more.

01:05:01   -There really was.

01:05:02   -I'm going to have a busy summer.

01:05:04   I'll tell you that.

01:05:05   Like, there was the watch OS stuff,

01:05:07   like independent apps on the watch.

01:05:08   There's a new audio streaming API.

01:05:10   I haven't looked at the details yet,

01:05:11   but I might be able to, like, you know,

01:05:12   do that kind of thing.

01:05:13   There's the little app store,

01:05:14   the cute little app store on the watch.

01:05:16   It's so cute.

01:05:17   I don't know how usable it's going to be.

01:05:18   And maybe Cirque should be better,

01:05:19   but it's so cute.

01:05:20   -But it's adorable.

01:05:21   -Yeah, it's -- Oh, man.

01:05:22   It's -- They're really pushing hard on the watch,

01:05:25   on it being its own thing,

01:05:27   being a standalone platform, being independent.

01:05:29   I'm a little curious.

01:05:30   Like, how long will it be before you can have a watch

01:05:33   without a phone paired to it?

01:05:35   -I would assume very, very soon.

01:05:38   -Two years out, you think?

01:05:39   -It might even be less than that.

01:05:40   Like, in theory, what is holding it back today?

01:05:44   I mean, you have to go through the dance

01:05:47   of setup, and that presumably would not be fun

01:05:50   to do on a screen that small.

01:05:52   But, I mean, in theory, there's nothing

01:05:54   that actively prevents it right now.

01:05:56   And so I agree.

01:05:57   I suspect within a year, maybe two tops,

01:06:00   that you will be able to buy an Apple Watch

01:06:02   and have no iPhone paired with it.

01:06:04   And I got to thinking the other day

01:06:06   when this was starting to get rumored, you know,

01:06:08   who would want to do that and why?

01:06:10   And my limited understanding of the Android market

01:06:13   for smartwatches is that it's fairly barren

01:06:16   and nothing is that great.

01:06:17   Now, that may be wrong, and I'm obviously biased,

01:06:19   but I don't think there's a lot.

01:06:21   I don't see very many of them.

01:06:22   And the Apple Watch is getting so unbelievably good

01:06:26   with health and fitness stuff,

01:06:27   and it's doing such a great job at keeping you healthy,

01:06:30   like the hearing stuff that happened today,

01:06:32   where it will tell you if the room is too loud

01:06:35   and warn you that you should really consider,

01:06:37   like, hearing protection

01:06:38   or removing yourself from that environment.

01:06:40   This is stuff that appeals to everyone.

01:06:42   I don't care what phone you have or don't.

01:06:44   It's appealing to everyone in the fall detection

01:06:46   if you perhaps have an older relative.

01:06:48   I mean, all of this stuff is universally appealing.

01:06:51   Hey, well, that's -- Come on!

01:06:53   -So, Casey gestured to John

01:06:55   when saying your older relative.

01:06:57   -Actually, that was accidental.

01:06:58   I was just -- -That was fantastic.

01:06:59   -I mean, I meant it. I meant it.

01:07:01   All right, I'll show myself off.

01:07:02   -No one likes sight gags on a podcast.

01:07:04   Good job. -Yeah, yeah. Anyway --

01:07:06   -Where's that see-dos? -Yeah, bring that back out.

01:07:08   No, but all kidding aside, I mean,

01:07:09   if you have an elderly relative that is prone to falling,

01:07:12   someone much older than John,

01:07:14   perhaps like the age of your Mac Pro in human years.

01:07:17   But anyway, these are universally appealing things,

01:07:21   and I don't see any reason why someone with an Android phone

01:07:25   or perhaps without a smartphone at all,

01:07:26   why wouldn't that be appealing to them?

01:07:28   -Well, maybe everyone wants to use it

01:07:29   as lock-in to the iPhone ecosystem.

01:07:31   Like, there's a big reason not to allow it,

01:07:32   which is that you could purchase it with an Android phone, right?

01:07:34   -Yeah. -I mean, I don't know

01:07:35   what's more important to them, like, you know,

01:07:36   the health thing and the value of them buying the watch itself

01:07:39   or keeping people locked to the iPhone ecosystem,

01:07:41   but there's certainly an argument to be made that way.

01:07:43   So I could see them maybe never doing it.

01:07:45   -That's fair. And actually, this reminds me --

01:07:46   I wanted to call attention to you very briefly

01:07:48   that I was extremely --

01:07:50   I don't know if "proud" is really the right word for it,

01:07:52   but I was extremely happy to see --

01:07:53   I didn't do a count or anything,

01:07:55   but there were plenty of women on stage,

01:07:57   which has been getting better over the last couple of years.

01:08:00   But there were plenty of women on stage.

01:08:02   There were people that were not white on stage, which was great.

01:08:05   But more importantly to me anyway than that

01:08:08   was that they were really embracing cycle tracking for women,

01:08:13   which I thought was very impressive.

01:08:14   And I was extremely happy to hear,

01:08:17   because of the trials and tribulations

01:08:18   that Erin and I have gone through,

01:08:19   to see that they have some fertility stuff as well

01:08:23   and showing you when your fertile window is.

01:08:25   And if you're not in this world, that sounds, you know,

01:08:29   either peculiar or if you're immature, perhaps gross.

01:08:32   But really, it's very important,

01:08:34   and this affects a lot more people than you would expect.

01:08:36   And so I wanted to just spend a moment and congratulate Apple

01:08:39   for paying attention to that sort of thing.

01:08:41   And the makeup and the memojis, which I was very --

01:08:44   I felt vindicated that several --

01:08:46   You were totally vindicated.

01:08:47   I know, right?

01:08:48   Both Tim and Craig say memoji just like you.

01:08:50   See, those accidents, they sometimes --

01:08:52   I wrote that down.

01:08:53   They start a revolution.

01:08:54   So anyway, but no, I don't want to take away

01:08:57   from what I'm trying to make as a serious point

01:08:59   that I am very pleased to see Apple trying to take into account

01:09:03   people that are not young white dudes.

01:09:06   And I think that they've done that well in the past,

01:09:09   but they've done a really good job this year.

01:09:11   So I think that's well-deserved.

01:09:13   [ Applause ]

01:09:15   And I think the privacy angle plays into this, too,

01:09:17   because this is just the type of data where we're like,

01:09:19   "And we'll track your fertility

01:09:21   and we'll sell you this information to Target

01:09:23   so they can send you, you know, advertisements for pads at the right --

01:09:26   It's just -- And we trust now that Apple's not going to do that

01:09:29   because they say they're not going to,

01:09:30   and they haven't historically,

01:09:31   and their business models aren't built around it."

01:09:33   So that's all part of the --

01:09:35   Like, these same things wouldn't be the same

01:09:37   coming from another company

01:09:38   that is more of the standard tech giant that uses our data.

01:09:41   The only thing that I had questions about,

01:09:43   which I'm surprised they didn't touch on,

01:09:44   and maybe they will in the more detailed session,

01:09:46   is, like, so these things, like,

01:09:47   send you notifications on your watches.

01:09:49   I don't know if you can turn it off or whatever,

01:09:50   but if the default is on,

01:09:51   like, if you're just hanging out in a meeting

01:09:53   and the thing pops up and it says,

01:09:55   "It's your fertile time," and it pops up on your watch,

01:09:57   like, that's probably not a notification

01:09:59   you want your co-workers to see, and it's a little bit weird.

01:10:02   I don't know.

01:10:03   Manage your notifications, people.

01:10:05   -Before we leave watchOS,

01:10:07   I was also pleasantly surprised by the new watch faces.

01:10:10   The new analog solar one,

01:10:13   I actually thought was kind of hideous.

01:10:14   That was the one I expected the most.

01:10:15   -Yeah, I was saying, like, you asked for a new solar face.

01:10:17   Well, you got it. -Yeah.

01:10:18   I think I'm going to stick with the digital solar face.

01:10:20   But the other ones,

01:10:22   they actually had significantly improved design

01:10:26   for legibility of the time

01:10:28   while also having complications.

01:10:30   Like, there were a lot that had, like,

01:10:31   the center dial was high contrast and nice colors,

01:10:34   but then you can also put complications around the corners.

01:10:36   So, like, they actually were significantly nicer designed

01:10:39   than I would have guessed,

01:10:41   and then the first round of Infograph faces.

01:10:43   And, like, the new one that has, like, little offset clock

01:10:46   but still has the big text complication below it

01:10:49   and the one on the side, it's like Infograph something.

01:10:51   Like, these look really nice.

01:10:53   Even the wonderful California dial.

01:10:55   -Oh, stop it.

01:10:56   -The California dial face, while I don't like those numerals

01:10:59   as the style of the numerals,

01:11:01   the design of the face with the clock

01:11:03   and its color background and the way the hands are on it,

01:11:05   like, and the complication on the corners,

01:11:07   it actually is a very nice-looking face.

01:11:09   So I got to say, like,

01:11:11   I still think that we need third-party watch faces,

01:11:15   very much so.

01:11:16   Like, I love how they were like,

01:11:17   "We have more watch faces than ever."

01:11:19   And it's like, "Yeah, I can think of one other way to do that."

01:11:21   [ Laughter ]

01:11:22   But, you know, we still need third-party watch faces,

01:11:24   I think, ultimately.

01:11:25   But in the meantime, they have given us more options

01:11:28   that are actually useful.

01:11:30   Instead of just having a bunch of, like, you know, fluff faces

01:11:32   that just are, you know, good for a quick,

01:11:34   "Oh, that's neat," and then you immediately realize

01:11:36   this is useless and you go back to your old one.

01:11:38   They've given us more options now

01:11:39   that I think are actually going to be useful to people.

01:11:41   -And I wouldn't dismiss the fluff faces.

01:11:42   Like, we don't make fun of them

01:11:43   because they don't have enough information,

01:11:44   but, like, the gradient face, like,

01:11:46   people pick what they want to pick on their watches.

01:11:48   Sometimes they just want something they think looks nice.

01:11:50   Like, everyone uses their watch in a different way.

01:11:52   Some of them want to see all the information

01:11:53   and have everything exactly set up,

01:11:55   and some of them just want to have, like,

01:11:56   a pretty picture when they look at their watch,

01:11:58   whether it's a picture of their kid

01:11:59   or a weird gradient face or whatever.

01:12:01   So I feel like Apple has to continue making those,

01:12:03   especially if they don't allow third-party watch faces,

01:12:05   because that is what some people want.

01:12:07   -Yeah, agreed.

01:12:08   I feel like we should quickly touch on iPadOS.

01:12:11   Like, that's a thing. -Yeah.

01:12:12   That's a huge thing.

01:12:13   -I don't know if Federico is here,

01:12:15   but I know Jason Snell is very excited right now.

01:12:18   So, yeah, iPadOS looked real good.

01:12:20   I got the one thing that I wanted,

01:12:22   which is I wanted to be able to manage photographs

01:12:24   on a USB key via the Files app,

01:12:27   and it looks like I've got that.

01:12:28   The multitasking improvements at a glance looked good.

01:12:31   It's getting really complex, but it still looks good.

01:12:34   I mean, I think all of this looked and sounded

01:12:36   really, really great,

01:12:37   and I'm really excited to try it on my iPad,

01:12:40   although I will point out,

01:12:41   as most of you have probably seen by now,

01:12:43   there is actually apparently a warning

01:12:44   on the Apple developer website

01:12:46   that says something like, "For thrill seekers,"

01:12:49   in so many words, "Don't install beta 1."

01:12:52   And I've actually heard from several people

01:12:55   that would know whether beta 1 was good or not,

01:12:57   and they have all said, "Don't install beta 1."

01:13:01   -Yeah, I heard the same thing.

01:13:02   Like, we got spoiled last year with the iOS 12 betas

01:13:04   because they were pretty solid right from day one,

01:13:06   and it kind of made us forget how bad beta 1 usually is.

01:13:10   -[ Laughs ]

01:13:11   -Because, like, I think, like, they prepare beta 1,

01:13:14   like, weeks ago, or, like, there's, like, some big-time gap.

01:13:17   I don't know what it is, but, like, beta 1

01:13:18   is pretty old at this point

01:13:20   because they locked it in a while ago,

01:13:22   and beta 2 is, like, those few weeks or a month

01:13:25   or whatever it is of a ton of bug fixes,

01:13:27   plus all the stuff that we're going to report from beta 1

01:13:29   on our test devices only.

01:13:31   And so, like, beta 2 is going to be --

01:13:34   If you're going to be the adventurer

01:13:36   and installed on your main device,

01:13:38   please at least wait for beta 2, if not the public beta.

01:13:41   -Yeah, agreed.

01:13:42   So, I feel like we're probably running a little low on time.

01:13:45   Should we kind of --

01:13:46   -Yeah, maybe a little more,

01:13:47   but I got to say, man, by the way, like,

01:13:49   sitting between --

01:13:50   Sitting next to Federico and Jason Snow

01:13:53   during the iPadOS segment,

01:13:55   especially during the Files segment...

01:13:57   [ Laughter ]

01:13:58   ...that was -- It was not --

01:14:01   Like, I wish I was sitting next to Syracuse for the Mac Pro,

01:14:04   but that was the next best thing because, man...

01:14:06   -Yeah, absolutely.

01:14:07   -...like, Federico, like, lit up.

01:14:09   I've never seen Jason smile so much with the USB drive thing.

01:14:11   Like, there is so much in the iPadOS update

01:14:15   for iPad power users.

01:14:17   Even the fact that they renamed it "iPadOS"

01:14:19   suggests, like, they're really taking this

01:14:21   even more seriously than before.

01:14:23   -Absolutely.

01:14:24   -They're not going to let the iPhone UI paradigm

01:14:26   limit them so much anymore.

01:14:28   And they're -- Like, even basic stuff,

01:14:30   like, the new, like, way you can pin the widgets

01:14:32   to the home screen and then always have those widgets

01:14:34   showing with your little icons off to the side, like,

01:14:36   they're just doing so much cool stuff on the iPad.

01:14:38   And the multitasking system that we've had in iOS 11

01:14:42   and forward so far, it had a lot of shortcomings.

01:14:45   It's a little clunky to use.

01:14:46   I was using it all day because I brought my iPad in

01:14:48   as my main device all day.

01:14:49   And it's fine.

01:14:51   I have a lot of problems with it, though.

01:14:53   But this new one looks like they're really making good changes.

01:14:55   And, you know, we'll see how it shakes out over the beta period.

01:14:57   I really want to hear from people like Federico

01:14:59   and Jason and Mike, like, you know,

01:15:01   people who are, like, iPad power users of, like,

01:15:03   you know, how this actually works in practice,

01:15:05   how good the changes actually are,

01:15:07   because I'm not really qualified to say.

01:15:09   But, man, it looks really good.

01:15:11   And it seems like everyone's pretty happy with it so far.

01:15:13   Yeah, very much so.

01:15:14   And it's funny because where we were seated

01:15:16   in the conference room, or whatever you call it,

01:15:19   the keynote room, we were pretty much way on the opposite end

01:15:23   of where the press was.

01:15:25   And I swear to you, I don't remember specifically what it was,

01:15:28   but I swear I heard a shout of utter joy

01:15:32   from what sounded like an Italian man

01:15:34   on the other side of the room

01:15:36   who was extremely excited about something iPad-related.

01:15:39   And I wish I remember specifically what it was,

01:15:41   but I swear, in my headcanon,

01:15:43   Federico just could not help himself

01:15:45   and just yelped in excitement about something.

01:15:47   I don't even remember what it was.

01:15:49   Yeah, I think we'll talk more about everything

01:15:52   in future shows, I'm sure, but I think we have a lot more to say

01:15:55   about iPad OS, just because, like,

01:15:57   this is such a fundamental sort of quality-of-life improvement.

01:16:00   They usually, what they call it in, like, video games,

01:16:02   where you get a quality-of-life improvement.

01:16:04   Like, they don't change the gameplay,

01:16:06   but there's some aspect of, like, just using the game,

01:16:08   or moving between different areas in the game,

01:16:10   or dealing with your inventory.

01:16:12   And you could do it the old way,

01:16:14   but it just would slowly drive you crazy,

01:16:16   because you have to do it a hundred times a day,

01:16:18   and this just felt like a quality-of-life improvement.

01:16:20   I feel like there's tons more room,

01:16:22   things they can do to improve this,

01:16:24   but giving it its own name is kind of like a signal

01:16:26   that, like, we're taking this seriously

01:16:28   as a separate thing now, and hopefully they don't have to wait,

01:16:30   like, two or three years for another one of these events.

01:16:32   I mean, I haven't barely seen Mike today,

01:16:34   but I'm pretty sure he's been crying tears of joy

01:16:36   for at least the last six hours.

01:16:38   - Yeah, and there's so much other stuff.

01:16:40   I mean, yeah, we'll get into it in later shows.

01:16:42   There's so much other stuff.

01:16:44   I was especially interested to see the Pencil updates.

01:16:46   Now, like, they cut the latency more than in half.

01:16:48   How? - Yeah, exactly.

01:16:50   - It was already really good, and I don't know how.

01:16:52   Like, when you get into, like, you know,

01:16:54   single-digit milliseconds of response time for things,

01:16:56   like, that's just hard from a computational perspective.

01:16:58   Like, how do you do the operations

01:17:00   that you need to do in that amount of time?

01:17:02   Like, that is really hard, and that's really impressive.

01:17:04   I love that they added a PencilKit API,

01:17:06   so you don't have to, like,

01:17:08   make your own drawing and annotation engines anymore.

01:17:10   Like, that's really cool.

01:17:12   - You can get your own blending stump in your own application.

01:17:14   - Exactly!

01:17:16   - They didn't say blending stump on stage.

01:17:18   I was waiting for it. I'm like, "Say it, say it,"

01:17:20   but no, they didn't do it, so now no one knows

01:17:22   what to call that thing except for us.

01:17:24   - Blending stumps for everyone. - Hooray!

01:17:26   - So, yeah, that was huge.

01:17:28   The text-editing stuff I really want to play with,

01:17:30   like, it's a massive update for the iPad,

01:17:32   and we didn't have time to talk about iOS.

01:17:34   - I don't know if we do. - Who would have believed

01:17:36   that after the WWDC keynote, we wouldn't have time

01:17:38   to talk about iOS because we were talking about everything else?

01:17:40   - I know, that's wild, but that's such a compliment

01:17:42   to this keynote, and I think

01:17:44   it is clear that--

01:17:46   it was clear to me

01:17:48   going into the keynote that the handful

01:17:50   of Apple engineers that I occasionally

01:17:52   talked to were giddy going into it,

01:17:54   and everyone around me

01:17:56   that was outside of Apple

01:17:58   was extremely excited

01:18:00   going into it, and of course

01:18:02   every year, we're all excited, we're all

01:18:04   amped, you know, this is Christmas for us because we're super nerds

01:18:06   and whatever, but this is still something

01:18:08   that's super exciting, but this year,

01:18:10   and I've probably said this in years past, but this

01:18:12   year felt to me significantly

01:18:14   more so than it ever did before

01:18:16   that everyone involved was extremely

01:18:18   excited. They were excited on the inside, we were

01:18:20   excited looking in from the outside, and

01:18:22   I know we've said it a couple times, but that

01:18:24   keynote was breakneck speed. I feel like,

01:18:26   and I made this joke before, but I feel like, what was it, the Maxel ad?

01:18:28   Where the guy's just getting blown

01:18:30   back by the speaker system? This is only if you're

01:18:32   old that you'll understand this, so John gets it, but

01:18:34   one way or another,

01:18:36   it just felt like it was non-stop,

01:18:38   and I

01:18:40   sit here and I can't

01:18:42   think off the top of my head

01:18:44   of what got left out, and I'm sure

01:18:46   you give the three of us another couple of weeks, we'll

01:18:48   give you plenty of things that got left out, but sitting here

01:18:50   tonight, the day of the keynote,

01:18:52   I don't even know what got left out.

01:18:54   - It's huge, I mean there's so

01:18:56   much stuff, like I'm going to have a very busy summer because

01:18:58   they gave me audio intents, intents

01:19:00   with parameters, like all this stuff that we've wanted,

01:19:02   whether I want to do the

01:19:04   watch, we haven't even talked about marzipan/

01:19:06   what's it called now? - Oh. - Catalyst.

01:19:08   - And Combine.

01:19:10   - Who would have guessed we would have gotten here

01:19:12   without talking about that? - That's why I feel like most of the Apple

01:19:14   people were super excited about it. The people who knew, they were

01:19:16   all excited about Amber, or what is the new name?

01:19:18   - SwiftUI, that's also huge.

01:19:20   - And it's weird that the keynote,

01:19:22   not that I'm complaining, they spend a lot of time

01:19:24   on the Mac Pro, and I feel like SwiftUI

01:19:26   and Combine and

01:19:28   marzipan, the

01:19:30   development story that that makes for

01:19:32   the future of Apple's platforms, yeah, they

01:19:34   touched on it or whatever, but I thought they would have leaned on it

01:19:36   even harder, so it seems like they're a little bit more

01:19:38   cautious about that than they were about Swift, but

01:19:40   look at those pieces and put them together, and I guess

01:19:42   look at the sessions this week,

01:19:44   like that's the future of development on Apple's platforms,

01:19:46   if all goes to plan, you know,

01:19:48   as they would say in the UK.

01:19:50   So I was

01:19:52   surprised,

01:19:54   everything goes to plan, it's a

01:19:56   Britishism.

01:19:58   - Mike is so confused right now,

01:20:00   as am I. - So the British in the

01:20:02   audience are denying your claim, I think.

01:20:04   - Citation needed.

01:20:06   - Yeah, I thought they would have leaned

01:20:08   on that even more, because it's such a significant

01:20:10   dev story, but the keynote is a combination

01:20:12   of dev story and also

01:20:14   whatever weird stuff they want to announce, so

01:20:16   they spend a lot of time on the Mac Pro, and they spend

01:20:18   probably an equal amount of time on those three things, but

01:20:20   in the rest of this week, I know we haven't talked

01:20:22   about it in this show, but we will in future shows,

01:20:24   I think that is still

01:20:26   the biggest story of WWDC, which was

01:20:28   underemphasized by Apple in the

01:20:30   keynote specifically.

01:20:32   - Very much so. - Agreed.

01:20:34   Alright, well, thank you very much

01:20:36   everybody for coming, we are almost

01:20:38   done here, we're gonna have a brief after show, but

01:20:40   first we need to thank our sponsors for

01:20:42   the week, that was

01:20:44   Boosted Boards, Mac Weldon,

01:20:46   Linode, and Cards Against

01:20:48   Humanity. Thank you very much to our sponsors

01:20:50   this week, stick around, we're almost done, we'll

01:20:52   see you in a minute.

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01:21:26   C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S. That's Casey List M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M. N-T Marco Arment. S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A. Syracuse. It's accidental. They didn't mean too accidental. Tech broadcast so long.

01:21:55   That never gets old for us. Thank you so much you guys.

01:22:03   So I wanted to do a quick exit interview for the outgoing trash can Mac Pro.

01:22:09   Oh no.

01:22:11   So I wanted to do a quick list of things that are younger than the trash can Mac Pro to give you some idea of how long it has been since the Mac Pro got an update.

01:22:24   Oh no.

01:22:25   So things that are younger than the Mac Pro. The previous generations of iPod touch, MacBook Air and Mac Mini that we all said were ancient and just recently got replaced.

01:22:34   Those were all newer than the Mac Pro. The iPhone 6, 6 Plus and SE. The first Apple Watch.

01:22:41   So we all think of that as being this ancient old outdated thing that was newer than the Mac Pro.

01:22:46   I'm wearing one now.

01:22:47   Yeah.

01:22:48   That's true actually.

01:22:49   Those were the Apple TV's that ran TV OS and introduced the glorious Siri remote. It was a good couple of years of initial design there.

01:22:57   The entire existence of Force Touch. The 12 inch MacBook. The iPad Pro. All of them.

01:23:04   The 5K Retina iMac. That was like two computers ago for me now.

01:23:09   Apple Music. The last color changes to the iPod line.

01:23:15   Oh my word. So that has happened since the Mac Pro. The trash can Mac Pro.

01:23:21   As has every Amazon Echo and smart home speaker.

01:23:25   Oh my word.

01:23:27   We've also had all of Overcast is newer.

01:23:32   Swift. HealthKit, HomeKit, CloudKit and anything based on CloudKit including the Modern Notes app.

01:23:38   Photos app, iCloud photo library. All widgets and all extensions for iOS apps.

01:23:45   The iOS tips app. Helpful right?

01:23:48   Mac OS X Yosemite which is before they even went to Mac OS and introduced things like notification center.

01:23:56   And the first dark mode when it was just like the menu bar.

01:24:00   The go to fail SSL bug.

01:24:04   Too soon.

01:24:06   Yeah. Trust me it's not too soon.

01:24:10   Timber by Pitbull and Shake It Off by Taylor Swift.

01:24:15   Have you heard either of those songs ever?

01:24:19   I have.

01:24:20   Okay. I'm impressed.

01:24:21   Not that many and I would have had to look up how to spell Pitbull and stuff but yeah.

01:24:25   The entire Flappy Bird craze. HBO's Silicon Valley show and Last Week Tonight with John Oliver.

01:24:32   The Last Hobbit movie for John.

01:24:36   All of Relay FM.

01:24:40   Oh my word.

01:24:44   Mike is telling us that he started Relay FM on the Trashcan Mac Pro. That is insane.

01:24:50   It survived anyway.

01:24:52   Also John's entire dog.

01:24:56   Both of Casey's children.

01:24:58   I was waiting for this. That's exactly right.

01:25:01   And the last 245 episodes of this show.

01:25:05   [Laughter]

01:25:07   [Applause]

01:25:12   So farewell Trashcan Mac Pro.

01:25:16   You've served us well?

01:25:19   You've served us a little bit sometimes.

01:25:21   Occasionally.

01:25:22   You provided us show artwork for all this time. We're going to have to get new artwork.

01:25:25   Anyway I want to close tonight by thanking the wonderful people from this venue.

01:25:30   And we got a lot of help. In fact can Stephen Hackett report to the stage please?

01:25:34   Stephen Hackett report to the stage.

01:25:36   You are allowed to leave your post to come to the stage.

01:25:38   I think he's moving from upstairs.

01:25:40   We want to thank the people at the Hammer Theater here. They've been wonderful to work with.

01:25:43   We don't have to say this but we are. They have been just amazing to work with.

01:25:47   We are very happy here. We want to thank them for making this easy.

01:25:50   We want to thank everyone who's helped us out with this event.

01:25:52   We want to thank Relay FM for tipping us off to this theater in the first place from their show last year.

01:25:57   And of course we all have shows there and you should listen to them as well.

01:26:00   So thank you to everybody who made this event happen.

01:26:03   It has been wonderful to be here. Thank you to all of you most of all for being our audience all this time.

01:26:10   Don't worry we're not ending the show. I'm just thanking you.

01:26:12   We're still going to do this podcast. Don't worry.

01:26:14   Thank you all this time. You've been our loyal listeners.

01:26:18   You allow us to do crazy stuff like this.

01:26:20   So from the bottom of our hearts, thank you very much.

01:26:24   It has been really wonderful.

01:26:25   Good to see you guys. Thank you very much.

01:26:27   [Applause]

01:26:34   And you didn't have to work nights and weekends to listen to this podcast.

01:26:37   Yeah, oh deep cut.

01:26:39   So Steven would you please come out here for a second.

01:26:42   I want to especially thank Mr. Steven Hackett.

01:26:45   Very much so. Steven saved this entire program.

01:26:48   Steven can you grab the microphone behind me, the wireless mic?

01:26:51   Steven looks very scared right now.

01:26:54   So I want to thank Steven Hackett because he has been running the sound, the recorder for us back there.

01:26:59   Doing the live stream, doing the mix that I'm going to make the podcast with.

01:27:02   He's been doing a wonderful job and I really want to thank him.

01:27:05   Do I get the toaster? I don't eat bread.

01:27:08   Well, we like you Steven.

01:27:10   Steven is not famous for a collection of toasters.

01:27:13   He's famous for a collection of Macs, an old Macs.

01:27:17   And there is one old Mac that Steven does not have in his collection.

01:27:23   Oh no.

01:27:24   That I think it's only fitting that we give to him tonight.

01:27:27   So as a thank you to Steven.

01:27:30   I should say for the listeners that Marco has white gloves on.

01:27:33   [Applause]

01:27:35   Marco is presenting to Steven with white gloves and trash can macarons.

01:27:40   If you want you can handle it with gloves because it gets fingerprints on it very easily.

01:27:44   So now Steven is placing black gloves onto his hands.

01:27:48   So it's only fitting that I think we thank Steven for his work making this event happen.

01:27:53   With this wonderful addition to his collection, the trash can macaroon.

01:27:57   To Steven everybody.

01:27:59   [Applause]

01:28:01   And you may put the first fingerprints on that case.

01:28:04   You already have.

01:28:06   So thank you very much everybody for coming out here.

01:28:09   Thank you to everyone who made this event happen.

01:28:11   And we will see you next year and also next week.

01:28:14   Thanks everybody.

01:28:16   [Applause]

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