00:00:00 ◼ ► Live now. Okay and switch. Okay. Hi everybody. We are live. Hope you enjoyed your fish New Year's Eve show. Oh, yeah
00:00:35 ◼ ► Maybe you shouldn't poke quite as much fun as Dave at Dave Matthews Band as you like to do
00:00:42 ◼ ► You are just upset that being a fish fan is so much more fun than being a Dave Matthews fan
00:00:47 ◼ ► Sure, any other pre-show banter you'd like to do? I don't think so. Happy New Year everybody
00:00:54 ◼ ► Yeah, happy new year. The calendar has incremented over in the NS calendar dot Gregorian calendar dot standard calendar
00:01:06 ◼ ► Well, we hope wasn't it like three or four years ago that that didn't happen or something happened with alarms because they used like the the
00:01:33 ◼ ► No, I just let Tina drive it if I go during the model s and you know, it's very similar
00:01:38 ◼ ► What were your interpretations and thoughts on the model 3 as a passenger and and could you perhaps channel Tina's thoughts for the purposes of?
00:01:56 ◼ ► So I should fill the listeners in so the Syracuse's and and us met at the underscores house, which is
00:02:08 ◼ ► But then the Syracuse's but you know, here we are and so we all got together for New Year's
00:02:23 ◼ ► you rode to and from the airport in a model 3 and then Tina drove the model 3 briefly basically around the block and
00:02:32 ◼ ► You had commented on Aaron's car in the literally 30 feet that you drove it that it also does not have enough physical controls
00:02:43 ◼ ► As a passenger had the opportunity to do things like adjust the climate control. Mm-hmm mess with us
00:02:52 ◼ ► But the dial that I thought might do something having to do with climate was seemed to only be volume and there was like
00:02:57 ◼ ► Play back into like it's just it's just a waste of they they have room for more buttons, but they don't turn there
00:03:06 ◼ ► Yeah, and so I'm out three obviously is that taking to the extreme where you just got the screen and you know
00:03:11 ◼ ► You've got two little balls in the steering wheel, but beyond that this there should definitely be more physical particularly things like air vents
00:03:17 ◼ ► I don't want to go for a screen for that. It's not like you're safe and it's like more costly
00:03:22 ◼ ► So a lot of some things are cheaper if you put them on the screen is you don't have to have all these buttons and switches
00:03:27 ◼ ► That are controlled is is more expensive than just having a little stick that I can move with my finger that directs the air
00:03:41 ◼ ► I got yelled at by the car for opening it wrong because he used the mechanical. Yep, but same thing with me
00:03:50 ◼ ► To use the handle that I'm not supposed to use and the reason it has it is because it has frameless window glass
00:03:55 ◼ ► and unlike seemingly every other car with frameless window glass the way it works on Model 3 is
00:04:12 ◼ ► It will slide the window glass up half an inch to tuck it under like the weather ceiling
00:04:16 ◼ ► so what they want you to do when you open the door is from the inside is press a button and
00:04:19 ◼ ► Pressing the button gives the car a chance to do its little window thing and then pop the door open
00:04:23 ◼ ► There is also a mechanical door open which is like where you would think the handle was a little thing that you pull on
00:04:35 ◼ ► It's like I didn't have a chance to roll the windows down you just basically tore them out of the weather stripping
00:04:39 ◼ ► It's like look you want to have frameless windows, but I don't suggest because it's not great
00:04:56 ◼ ► So that's just like needless complexity one more thing that can break like they I wouldn't say they fix they change the door
00:05:04 ◼ ► Where now they are still flush but to make them un-flush you just use your finger to open them instead of like a
00:05:12 ◼ ► Cheaper and less problem prone, but I didn't find particularly pleasing to use it's not bad and you get used to it, but
00:05:26 ◼ ► But anyway, they took all the complexity that there was in the door handles and they put it in the windows
00:05:36 ◼ ► At least on the interior regular door handles and when you open it like every other frameless window car I've ever seen
00:05:48 ◼ ► You don't really notice it and then when you close it it goes back up a half inch it and you know goes into the weather
00:05:51 ◼ ► Seal but you can open it normally like it's like they already solved this problem with the s and then they unsolved it
00:06:02 ◼ ► It's like let's have gull wing doors which caused them lots of problems because they were so complicated like, you know
00:06:12 ◼ ► And yeah, it seems like it's like Tesla's curse like every vehicle they make they take at least one major
00:06:42 ◼ ► You would expect and assume to open a car door from the inside which lots of people have to do when it isn't their car
00:07:10 ◼ ► which I actually do like unlike John and it did that very dance like you would go to open the handle and
00:07:20 ◼ ► If you were opening the door then you would close the door and shimmy the window back up and it didn't have a problem in
00:07:25 ◼ ► but in the vein of in the vein of odd door situations, you know, my dad has a c7 Corvette and it has
00:07:33 ◼ ► Push button to open the door both interior and exterior. So where there would typically be a handle
00:07:39 ◼ ► Well, there is a place for like your fingers to curl around a piece of the body to open the door
00:07:47 ◼ ► Anyways, you push a button in there kind of like what you would do for a tailgate in a lot of cars
00:07:52 ◼ ► You know, there's like a little push button there and then you pull the door open but on the interior
00:07:56 ◼ ► there's also just a little push button like where the the grabby handle is to close the door and
00:08:10 ◼ ► And then there's like some god-awful, you know lever that you can pull somewhere to do what the model 3 is doing, you know
00:08:16 ◼ ► And mechanically open the door, but I don't know of all the things that we needed innovation on in cars
00:08:28 ◼ ► as I said on past shows there is one aspect of this the test that is actually important for Tesla in that having a
00:08:42 ◼ ► But also reads as futuristic to both the buyer and the people they show off their car to
00:08:47 ◼ ► Make some amount of sense. Like I don't I don't fault them for having features like that. It's just that
00:08:52 ◼ ► You know choosing which ones those are going to be and making sure that it's stuff that you can actually pull off as important
00:08:59 ◼ ► Like maybe I wouldn't do something as important as the door opening and closing with the the X but maybe
00:09:05 ◼ ► Maybe that worked out like but for the for the featureless dashboard. I feel like that is less impressive
00:09:13 ◼ ► More annoying long-term like that kind of purity that kind of like we're gonna have no control just gonna be one big screen
00:09:22 ◼ ► Maybe it's an interesting design exercise, but it's the wrong. It's the wrong trade-off
00:09:26 ◼ ► Riding in the car at first I thought I was glad that it had like the glass roof like it's not a sunroof
00:09:43 ◼ ► Like I looked at where the headliner was and I said if they had continued that headliner
00:09:56 ◼ ► But with that seat in the all the way down position, it's like I'm in my 92 Civic again
00:10:07 ◼ ► See it felt like it was pretty well put together with the doors in the trunk both of which I opened and everything
00:10:17 ◼ ► I asked Dave about it. He said it felt a lot lighter and more nimble than the five which I can believe because it is
00:10:41 ◼ ► And it felt plenty quick to me. I mean, you know, they just we were just on like not on major roads
00:10:48 ◼ ► So it was basically all from zero to 40 miles an hour or whatever but in that sprint it it feels very fast
00:10:53 ◼ ► Maybe I had less wine than an S during those acceleration runs hard. Maybe I'm just getting used to it
00:11:17 ◼ ► Overblown but it's it's nice on the inside. The dashboard is messed up. This doesn't have a lot of physical controls and we already covered that
00:11:37 ◼ ► Like are they 25 inch wheels? How about I believe I believe they're 20 if I'm not mistaken that's stock by the way
00:11:43 ◼ ► I didn't put any aftermarket anything the rubber stock the the wheels are stock everything on that car stock
00:12:00 ◼ ► It's a freaking gray car silvery gray. It's a very light gray. It is a very light gray, but whatever
00:12:08 ◼ ► Well, we should start the show properly with some follow-up and we can start by having John review something else
00:12:23 ◼ ► I had to see despite saying I should really go to a store and see we actually tried one time but the Apple store in
00:12:26 ◼ ► Our mall is closed for renovations and unlike the last time I did this at a different mall
00:12:31 ◼ ► They didn't move like to a temporary location in the same mall. So there just is no Apple store in the mall
00:12:39 ◼ ► We should also look at the Apple store when it was closed. But anyway, I finally got to see an iPad
00:12:42 ◼ ► I got to see Casey's iPad, which is the 11 inch one like literally his actual iPad when we're
00:12:53 ◼ ► It's sad I was so excited about the case. Oh, I guess you didn't have the case. You've got the keyboard thing
00:13:00 ◼ ► But now that I've seen them in person, I'm less excited about them because they seem kind of thick
00:13:05 ◼ ► Oh, I don't like the keyboards anyway, so maybe the non keyboard accessories are nice. I still haven't seen those but that was kind of disappointing
00:13:19 ◼ ► You've got one sticker you've got one sticker that you that looks like you were trying to center it
00:13:24 ◼ ► But you have not centered it and that's terrible and then they'll lay out of the other ones
00:13:28 ◼ ► But you're not intended to be centered but intended to be kind of like haphazard or not well placed
00:13:32 ◼ ► So now you just live with that you just get because they're stuck on there. So enjoy your stickers
00:13:45 ◼ ► Yeah, so he he grabs my iPad from like the couch or the kitchen table or something like that
00:13:50 ◼ ► It's like the first thing he does run. Yeah, it runs off with it and starts using it and then within like 30 seconds
00:13:59 ◼ ► Taking the case of the the folio or whatever stupid word Apple uses word takes the folio off smart keyboard folio
00:14:08 ◼ ► He takes the folio off and I see him doing the ridiculous look that he made Marco and I do which I hope you saw
00:14:27 ◼ ► Yep, and then I did the other I also tried to pick it up with one hand, which is very difficult
00:14:39 ◼ ► Checking whether it rocks when you put no case on it and you put it down on a presumably on a flat table with the
00:14:48 ◼ ► I thought it would be rocking but I was drawing on it with with the pencil and it wasn't it didn't rock and
00:15:02 ◼ ► Maybe that's what they're going for but I can tell you Casey's which does not have a bend that I could perceive
00:15:06 ◼ ► If you put it down with the camera bump down on a flat hard table it rocks. Of course it does
00:15:15 ◼ ► But you can both see it and feel it if you press down on one corner of this four corner thing
00:15:27 ◼ ► Feel refreshed knowing that there's not some magic going on somewhere because everyone was saying that this thing
00:15:33 ◼ ► This four-cornered thing that has won a bulge in one corner only doesn't rock. It totally does
00:15:39 ◼ ► it's not it's the reason people I think thought that it didn't rock is because the bulge for the camera as
00:15:47 ◼ ► Compared to the length of the entire iPad, especially the really big iPad, but even the 11-inch is so small, right? So you it
00:15:55 ◼ ► The rocking is barely perceptible, but it is perceptible like it doesn't knock or bang or whatever
00:16:05 ◼ ► It's got his name on it. So in case he forgets who he is, he can look at his pencil and it says Casey apple pencil
00:16:13 ◼ ► Apple pencil is just the product name. That's not part of your name case. You don't get confused. Oh good. Good. Good. I've got very confused
00:16:18 ◼ ► Thanks for the thanks for the clarification Casey Apple pencil, you know and seeing the inscription and Apple pencil makes me think I
00:16:27 ◼ ► I'd rather it just say Casey because now it says Casey Apple pencil and you can't just read Casey
00:16:31 ◼ ► You have to read Casey Apple pencil and I don't like reading Casey Apple pencil. I just anyway
00:16:51 ◼ ► It far as I could tell it work like the other one the double tapping business. Take it or leave it
00:16:58 ◼ ► What else to say about the iPad that's about it and you know, I didn't use it very long
00:17:02 ◼ ► I did use the keyboard a little bit. I don't like keyboards on my iPads, but it felt okay. I you're missing out
00:17:09 ◼ ► My wife really doesn't like the keyboard on the back of the thing like where you can feel the keys in the back
00:17:14 ◼ ► I don't mind it that much. But again, I would I don't think I would get this with a keyboard
00:17:37 ◼ ► the only complaints I really have about it are that I do keep covering up the face ID camera and
00:17:43 ◼ ► That the new design of the folios where it covers the back and attaches by the back does make it a way bulkier
00:17:57 ◼ ► both the keyboard cover and the non keyboard cover are significantly bulkier feeling than previous smart covers because they cover the back and
00:18:04 ◼ ► That's nice. If you wanted rear coverage as like a feature of like protection for your iPad, but I've never cared about that
00:18:15 ◼ ► I don't you know, they've never gotten smashed from the back or scratched or anything in my typical use so I
00:18:25 ◼ ► The way they used to be because that is the one thing I don't really like about the the new physical design
00:18:33 ◼ ► But that it is substantially bulkier is the rear cover is the rear cover thicker than the old rear cover
00:18:50 ◼ ► Cover for the current iPad with the rear cover. Is that as thick as the keyboard rear cover? No
00:18:55 ◼ ► Yes, it like the rear covers between the two are seemingly identical. It's only the keyboard side that is different
00:19:06 ◼ ► generation is if you're gonna get a cover get the keyboard cover because it isn't actually that much bulkier than the non keyboard cover and
00:19:17 ◼ ► Agreed. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I don't know you still got the keys in the back issue
00:19:25 ◼ ► but but in reality I you know in my actual use like I leave it in the keyboard almost all the time and if I'm
00:19:33 ◼ ► I will usually just detach it completely and just hold the naked iPad and then marvel at how thin and light it is without the
00:19:45 ◼ ► Like I just I just hit the keeper off. I'm not gonna use it. Yeah, I basically do the same thing
00:19:57 ◼ ► Obviously John deliberately took some of the wind out of my sails because I did receive an Apple pencil since we last spoke
00:20:03 ◼ ► And I mean everything John said I mostly agree with I've never had an Apple pencil before so this is new to me
00:20:22 ◼ ► I'm glad it was a gift because I think it would have been a waste of 130 or whatever dollars it was
00:20:27 ◼ ► Had I paid for it myself and that is like the perfect gift of my eyes something that you want
00:20:32 ◼ ► But you really don't want to buy here with your own money. It was very easy to shop for
00:20:37 ◼ ► Well, I don't know. I like stuff a lot. So and and I'm very cheap. So I like to think I'm easy to shop for
00:20:42 ◼ ► But anyway, but my parents bought it for me and I think they engraved it which isn't a literal engraving
00:20:49 ◼ ► It's just like, you know, it's printed on there. It's not like etched in or anything. It's like a screen print. Yeah
00:20:54 ◼ ► Yeah, they didn't grave it. I think just because they thought it would be fun to do I guess
00:20:59 ◼ ► I don't really know why and that's why it says Casey on it as I said on Twitter when I received it
00:21:05 ◼ ► I was slightly fearful that my parents might have been in on the joke and it would have said Mike was right on it
00:21:12 ◼ ► That would have been amazing. It would have been amazing and terrible all at the same time
00:21:18 ◼ ► Really enjoy using what is the I'm gonna have to stall for time as I find it the the app where you can color
00:21:34 ◼ ► I also did a just a teeny bit of retouching on a photograph using pixel meter or pixel mature
00:21:44 ◼ ► Sketch party TV, which I have had for years but had completely forgotten about until the recent
00:21:54 ◼ ► And and we were playing that a lot when we were at the underscores and that was tremendous fun
00:22:02 ◼ ► That's like can you just like pass a pattern with you multiple people like you don't need multiple iPads or anything, correct?
00:22:15 ◼ ► With an Apple TV, so it does the kind of airplay where it's using the Apple TV as a second screen
00:22:25 ◼ ► I they haven't sponsored sponsored this episode, but they basically should so have your people call our people
00:22:30 ◼ ► But anyway, it's like Pictionary super fun really good and great party game and we were doing that with the Apple pencil, which was super awesome
00:22:35 ◼ ► Additionally, we were using the icon factory and friend of the show Craig Hockenberry's app Linnea Linnea Linnea. I
00:22:43 ◼ ► Asked him how it was pronounced. No, I asked him how it was pronounced and then I think I just pronounced it improperly
00:22:58 ◼ ► L-I-N-E-E-U-H was his phonetic pronunciation, but nobody knows how to pronounce Latin. Yeah
00:23:03 ◼ ► Well, there's that too, but he he speaks near fluent Italian or did at some point. That's true
00:23:10 ◼ ► Exactly. Anyway, that app is like so I walked I will characterize it probably improperly as a
00:23:18 ◼ ► Drawing app with a little bit of like layering and you know photoshopped stuff on it now understand
00:23:35 ◼ ► There's a template for storyboarding which I plan to do the next time I do a car review car review in like 15 years
00:23:52 ◼ ► in part because I wanted to mention that using that as like pen and paper is really great with the Apple pencil, but
00:24:03 ◼ ► Artist and so she took my iPad with permission for a while and and drew a few different things on it
00:24:10 ◼ ► And it was super fascinating watching her and I don't think she'd ever used this app before but watching her use
00:24:16 ◼ ► Linnea to to create these really to me intricate drawings that were really really pretty and and
00:24:23 ◼ ► Shaded and colored really well, and she was using layers to you know to add and remove stuff
00:24:34 ◼ ► And those are easily the best drawings that will ever be made with that pencil during its lifetime
00:24:46 ◼ ► Okay, Linnea anybody who has an iPad and an Apple pencil just buy this app like don't waffle about it
00:24:53 ◼ ► Don't think about it. Just buy it. You will thank me. I think it's like five or ten bucks
00:24:57 ◼ ► It's really inexpensive and it's amazing software. So what I like about it is I am NOT an artist like you
00:25:07 ◼ ► But it is useful in the universe in life to occasionally draw something to occasionally dot
00:25:17 ◼ ► Or just do like a line drawing or something and it makes it really really nice even for people like us who are not
00:25:54 ◼ ► I I pasted into the chat here this tweet from the playing for fun account for Tiff and Mike's podcast about video games
00:26:05 ◼ ► the little wreaths in the corner of that image that have like the the playing for fun relay coin pixel art and
00:26:26 ◼ ► And I just read their blog post where they had like this this grid template mode that you mentioned they had like certain like, you know
00:26:31 ◼ ► Grids or whatever they are and they had one that like if you squint right you can make pixel art with it
00:26:37 ◼ ► It's not it isn't like designed for that purpose and you know, there's some holes in the functionality
00:26:41 ◼ ► But you can do it and this was the first time I had used Linnea for more than 10 seconds
00:26:48 ◼ ► Because I finally had a use for I had a need for it. And so I it was like an Apple commercial
00:26:53 ◼ ► I come over Tiff's in front of her computer all frustrated with Photoshop. I come over with my iPad in my arm
00:27:07 ◼ ► This is literally the first time I've ever done anything really with really with the app
00:27:15 ◼ ► It was amazing it like Apple should have be should have been filming that and made a commercial out of how inspiring it is like
00:27:21 ◼ ► That's how good it was. It was amazing and and I have since used it. I think two or three more times like one time
00:27:32 ◼ ► and so we had the architect over and I like took the iPad out and was doodling and it's like trying to draw on top of
00:27:38 ◼ ► photo and then trying to draw like what I was thinking of how we should do things and so I took the pencil and I drew
00:27:48 ◼ ► She started drawing on her own layer with what she wanted and then Tiff took a pencil and drew on another layer of what she wanted
00:28:00 ◼ ► And and we are friends with Craig Hockenberry here and they have not asked us to ever say anything about this app
00:28:06 ◼ ► They're not sponsoring we're doing this completely on our own volition here. It is that good like it is just it is the perfect
00:28:22 ◼ ► Like the double tap on the new pencil and everything like you can customize that to be what you want it to be you can
00:28:27 ◼ ► Like switch between tools you can switch between eraser, you know, whatever you want it to be the ink engine seems very responsive
00:28:35 ◼ ► I haven't used a lot of these apps but I've I've seen Tiff use some of them and some of them are kind of sluggish or
00:28:48 ◼ ► Some like big company who mostly writes Java software and they kind of crapped out this iPad app
00:29:11 ◼ ► But you don't need to be a talented person to use it and that's I can say that about very few iPad drawing apps
00:29:17 ◼ ► Especially very few that are optimized for the Apple pencil, but this is one and I strongly strongly recommend it
00:29:27 ◼ ► but but we're saying this because we mean it not because he's a friend of ours and the thing that I liked about it just to
00:29:44 ◼ ► I don't think I've even ever pirated Photoshop which might make me the only human alive that is not impossible
00:29:48 ◼ ► I maybe maybe at some point but you were a teenager in the 2000s. How did you not pirate Photoshop?
00:30:05 ◼ ► And you can use it just for note-taking and pencil and paper type stuff, which is great
00:30:09 ◼ ► But we should move on Marco. How is your matte screen protector going so far so good. I actually
00:30:17 ◼ ► mostly what we heard cuz I had asked basically like do any matte finish screen protectors exist that
00:30:28 ◼ ► whatever whatever it is like the refraction of the matte surface above the glass screen makes kind of like a rainbow noise look and
00:30:33 ◼ ► It kind of it makes retina screens look kind of crappy and so especially when displaying white content
00:30:38 ◼ ► So I basically asked like does anybody know does any matte screen picture exist that doesn't have this problem?
00:30:47 ◼ ► Most of the responses were no it doesn't exist or it can't exist a few people recommended that I try
00:30:54 ◼ ► Tempered glass screen protectors and so I got a couple of brands. So I got one coming I think tomorrow
00:31:02 ◼ ► Still like it a lot and I've mostly stopped noticing the downsides of it. Like I've mostly stopped noticing that weird
00:31:09 ◼ ► You know rainbow noise effect most of the time I'm using it and so I'm just enjoying the the nice finish of it
00:31:14 ◼ ► So I'm kind of happy with it honestly and and it does indeed feel very good with the Apple pencil
00:31:38 ◼ ► so I'm gonna try out one of the glass ones see if it's actually any different or if it's any better or worse and
00:31:45 ◼ ► I have some more pencil related F you and through the magic of editing. Maybe you'll just slide this in earlier
00:31:52 ◼ ► one of the things that I noticed about the pencil is that I do not generally do the mic approach of
00:32:06 ◼ ► But if I'm just using the iPad say looking at I don't know tweet bot or something like that
00:32:23 ◼ ► It's like it's at Casey list at Mark Worman at Syracuse at some random person at some other random person
00:32:28 ◼ ► And I'm trying to tap on one of those usernames in order to figure out who this person is
00:32:36 ◼ ► Really nice because by no fault of tap bots who make tweet bot when you have this list of all these different accounts
00:32:47 ◼ ► So they're one on top of the other maybe it's just me, but it's hard for me sometimes to
00:32:52 ◼ ► Tap on the exact account. I want to hit and sometimes I'll grab the one below or to the right or to the left
00:32:58 ◼ ► Well, I don't ever have that problem with the pencil and goodness text selection if you're not going to do that with the keyboard
00:33:11 ◼ ► Incredible with the Apple pencil and so for that I've really liked it and it made me think
00:33:31 ◼ ► I should say I'm sorry on on an iPad which is something I think Steve trout and Smith has been barking
00:33:35 ◼ ► Barking up that tree for a while if I'm not mistaken. Oh, yeah, so yeah, that's a thing
00:33:44 ◼ ► Mostly no good input accessories like they actually shipped that weird dock that held it in portrait mode from the beginning
00:33:50 ◼ ► And had a keyboard like that that existed, but I'd never even seen one in real life. Like I don't know anybody ever bought one
00:34:00 ◼ ► I mean heck the first iPad didn't even really have any design accommodations for a case
00:34:04 ◼ ► That's why that first iPad case was so horrendous the big like rubber condom thing that went over it
00:34:11 ◼ ► But you know over time the iPad despite everybody who is like, you know, kind of like a tech commentator or like a
00:34:18 ◼ ► iPad enthusiast or purist saying like we don't need a keyboard. We don't need a stylus, you know, and then over time
00:34:25 ◼ ► keyboard and stylus were both added and it turned out they're awesome and for a lot of people that made the difference between
00:34:31 ◼ ► the iPad being a really good useful device for them more frequently and it not being I think trackpad support is one of those things where
00:34:39 ◼ ► At first like who needs that you have touch you have your fingers. It's not made for a mouse pointer, etc, etc, etc
00:34:45 ◼ ► There's lots of arguments you can make for the trackpad not being necessary or being somehow somehow against your religion, but ultimately
00:34:52 ◼ ► Adding better and more precise input devices to the iPad has helped the iPad tremendously
00:35:02 ◼ ► Detach from everything and just have a tablet and just use touch for everything. That's great to have an option
00:35:08 ◼ ► but what we also keep seeing from from actual experience with these things and market demand is that
00:35:19 ◼ ► Some portion of those people will buy that and not only will you then have those extra accessory sales
00:35:24 ◼ ► But you will have more people using iPads more of the time because they're able to fit them into more places in their life
00:35:45 ◼ ► There are definitely times where I think it may not be so bad. And that was that was a startling conclusion for me to come to
00:35:51 ◼ ► We are sponsored this week by hover an excellent domain name provider. And this is a very special month for hover
00:35:59 ◼ ► They are celebrating their 10 year anniversary. I gotta say I've been with hover for seven years
00:36:05 ◼ ► They've only been around for ten. I've been here almost the whole time. Those seven years have been great
00:36:09 ◼ ► They have been so easy to buy and manage domain names from that's why I keep doing it since this is before they were a sponsor
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00:37:46 ◼ ► We wish them a very happy 10th anniversary and we hope you check them out. Thanks hover
00:37:57 ◼ ► extremely interesting news happened just hours before the show and we are recording on a Wednesday evening and
00:38:10 ◼ ► Announced that they are altering their I'm sorry revising their guidance for Apple's fiscal 2019 first quarter, which ended on December 29th
00:38:19 ◼ ► And I guess the TLDR on this is that they're expecting to earn a lot less revenue than they initially thought
00:38:27 ◼ ► And from what I've understood from from the initial response from this the last time this happened was
00:38:34 ◼ ► 2002 or thereabouts that they've said oh things are looking way different than we expected and I don't know a lot about this
00:38:42 ◼ ► I know that there are a lot of rules in the United States from the security and exchanges
00:38:46 ◼ ► Exchange Commission about when you need to report things how you report them and so on and so forth. So I
00:38:54 ◼ ► But one way or another Apple has made a formal statement including a letter to investors written by Tim or signed by Tim
00:39:13 ◼ ► Let's start with John. What are what is anything else you want to add? And what's your initial take on this?
00:39:23 ◼ ► stuff here, but like we tend we tend not to cover like earnings calls on this show and get lost in the
00:39:34 ◼ ► You just said that like in general Apple tends to give guidance as they call it to say our next quarter
00:39:48 ◼ ► I don't you think our profits gonna be they give all this information for many many years
00:39:55 ◼ ► They would say here's what we're gonna do and they would always do a little bit more than it like so much
00:40:02 ◼ ► Wait, we told you we were gonna do five widgets and we did seven widgets. Isn't that great?
00:40:17 ◼ ► They changed to say we're not gonna do that thing where we lowball our guidance anymore
00:40:21 ◼ ► Now we're gonna give you like actual guidance where we're gonna give you a range of numbers
00:40:25 ◼ ► It's gonna be between five and seven and then when the time comes we're probably gonna get a six
00:40:29 ◼ ► Right for all the numbers that we did and they've been doing that for many years and they they change their accounting and there's a whole
00:40:35 ◼ ► bunch of details there, right so we've been in this the current period we're in is the period in which Apple says what they're gonna do
00:40:53 ◼ ► but not so much that you think they're lowballing everything and this event is noteworthy because
00:41:07 ◼ ► We actually think it's gonna be less than even the bottom end of our range, which has never happened
00:41:13 ◼ ► You know in recent memory again, we're going all the way back to 2002 the last time that happens ancient history
00:41:24 ◼ ► if you have like an entire room of people including like every tech podcast come up with as many reasons as you could think of why
00:41:42 ◼ ► Where we let you replace your battery cheaply that couldn't have helped and they're right that couldn't help numbers, but like all right, okay
00:41:50 ◼ ► You know like the shortfall is like it's some astronomical number because all of Apple's numbers are astronomical
00:42:01 ◼ ► Percentage wise it's like five to ten percent depending on let they're like five percent off their their
00:42:06 ◼ ► Low end and like ten percent off their high end of the previous estimates right so percentage wise
00:42:12 ◼ ► It's not like they have 50% drop something and it it's apparently only revenue like all the other numbers
00:42:19 ◼ ► Revenue is the number that they're missing and they tried to more or less blame it all on China
00:42:31 ◼ ► But without us knowing and we probably won't know because they don't report unit sales anymore without us knowing all the details you can say
00:42:53 ◼ ► If the world was just the US would they have hit their numbers would they have exceeded their numbers right or?
00:43:06 ◼ ► We all know that they blamed it on everything they could think of to blame it on including
00:43:33 ◼ ► Like they're not gonna. You know they don't make announcements about future products and blah blah blah
00:43:45 ◼ ► But we this is Apple speaking are undertaking and accelerating other initiatives to approve our results so undertaking obviously
00:43:52 ◼ ► They should always be undertaking initiatives to improve their results because that's what a company is
00:43:55 ◼ ► They are accelerating those initiatives right one such initiative is making it simple to trade in a phone in our stores
00:44:13 ◼ ► Maybe that showed before that Apple was making a serious push to tell you hey come to our stores
00:44:21 ◼ ► Asterisk asterisk only if you trade in the other ones like they've been changing their homepage to have more you know
00:44:34 ◼ ► This is different than all the other times that everyone said oh iPhone sales might be bad because Apple's behavior Apple itself was behaving
00:44:41 ◼ ► Differently there's always been stuff where they're like oh part supplier says iPhone orders are down and iPhones doom and gloom like there's tons of people
00:44:48 ◼ ► Who are motivated to say that about Apple and that's a lot of the reason why people are ignoring it, but in this case
00:44:52 ◼ ► Apple's behavior was different, and that's how you can kind of tell that things weren't going great all right
00:45:04 ◼ ► You know upping the marketing budget telling people you can get a new phone for less than you think if you give us your old
00:45:12 ◼ ► Finance purchase over time great buy your iPhone on a layaway plan because we know they cost as much as a house get a mortgage
00:45:22 ◼ ► Get help transferring data is the one that pissed me off the most because I'm like get help transferring data to the new phone
00:45:27 ◼ ► How about you just make that easy enough that you don't need to go into a store to get help like if someone not buying
00:45:32 ◼ ► An iPhone like I was gonna get a new thousand-dollar iPhone, but it's so hard to transfer data
00:45:38 ◼ ► But the solution is not to say we'll make it easier for you to get help transferring data
00:45:45 ◼ ► And they're going through more of the litany of reasons like can you think of some other reasons Apple might not have made as
00:45:58 ◼ ► Which is a transition that we are at the tail end of at best like that yeah come and like
00:46:03 ◼ ► That's probably true if you compare it to many years ago when subsidies did hide the cost of the iPhone
00:46:08 ◼ ► But like you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel if you're gonna throw that out to say
00:46:12 ◼ ► Here's another reason why we might not have made as much money that is probably one of the reasons
00:46:17 ◼ ► But if you put them in a big pie chart that'd be those little wedges that you can't fit the name in right
00:46:27 ◼ ► Lots of stuff in the China section are like coded language basically blaming US government trade policies without calling it out by name
00:46:42 ◼ ► You know expensive phones are not selling as well as they were in China now everyone in the u.s.. Probably including us
00:46:51 ◼ ► They're not they're not moving as much money through Apple not as many people are giving money to happen
00:47:02 ◼ ► It doesn't take into account how much it cost Apple to make those things or anything like that
00:47:06 ◼ ► It's just like people have money. They give it to Apple goes into the Apple machine. That's revenue
00:47:11 ◼ ► There's less of that and when we see that story it fits right into our narrative that we've been talking about for the past six
00:47:24 ◼ ► Because because they could you know I forget with you know we never knew the correct economic term and never looked it up
00:47:30 ◼ ► But the idea is that if they increase the price of their products where they remax or iPhones or whatever
00:47:40 ◼ ► Well, they actually make more money because you know five percent fewer people will get them
00:47:47 ◼ ► It's you know when you when you think you've saturated the market and sold as many iPhones as you're going to sell
00:48:05 ◼ ► And these results together saying well they found the limit they found how much can you raise the price until it starts to?
00:48:22 ◼ ► which is the only thing we really know and have any kind of intuitive feel for because we live in the US right and
00:48:26 ◼ ► Intuitively we have all sorts of anecdotal stories from people and you know that the phones are really expensive now
00:48:33 ◼ ► We know people who aren't buying them and didn't upgrade because they're too expensive and so on and so forth
00:48:39 ◼ ► We have no idea what the heck is going on with China except for what we're told in these types of stories
00:48:47 ◼ ► Explaining yet another reason why Apple might be in trouble in China and had to do with the fact that
00:48:51 ◼ ► iOS is not an important differentiator in China because the most important thing in China is not the operating system or the apps available
00:49:09 ◼ ► the iPhone has to sell itself based on the pizzazz of the particular form factor and hardware and
00:49:21 ◼ ► And that's the the application that means the most to me and the only really important application
00:49:35 ◼ ► Less interesting phone like the 10s. It's like oh, it looks just like the 10. I saw that already
00:49:42 ◼ ► that makes sense to me too, but I have no idea if it's that factor if it's the tariffs if it's
00:49:47 ◼ ► You know economic downturn in China in general if it's because the the phone prices are increased if it's all those things combined
00:50:04 ◼ ► But that they were surprised by it and had to revise their guidance that Wall Street hates it when they see uncertainty
00:50:09 ◼ ► They would you know Apple would have been punished if they said our revenue numbers are gonna be lower
00:50:19 ◼ ► They know exactly what numbers they're gonna get when they announce numbers have to lower them makes everybody a little bit scared
00:50:39 ◼ ► Increasing the prices of your product slowly and putting less stuff in the box for that price
00:50:46 ◼ ► More up for grabs than it used to be the idea of giving people miniscule amounts of iCloud storage all right
00:50:55 ◼ ► That may be more again more up for grabs than it was before because when things go badly
00:50:59 ◼ ► People are much more open to new ideas right ideas that would never be discussed before like why would we reduce our service revenue?
00:51:07 ◼ ► That's the most important part of our business is growing so fast it went up 20% blah blah
00:51:31 ◼ ► Maybe we can keep our prices exactly the way they are but just make the perceived value higher
00:51:42 ◼ ► They think that you know this now Apple will finally do the thing that I wanted them to do
00:51:50 ◼ ► Maybe it's simple to trade in phones and finance the purchase over time and get help transferring data
00:52:01 ◼ ► Unfortunately Apple's a big ship and takes a long time to turn it so whatever plans they have
00:52:14 ◼ ► Probably bad news for Apple, but I think good news for us for consumers because it's not like Apple's going out of business
00:52:28 ◼ ► Because that's when that's when real change can happen and as anyone who listens to this program knows
00:52:46 ◼ ► Besides good laptop keyboards and maybe some maybe some whimsy, but what I need to get a bell for you
00:53:14 ◼ ► They're relying on the fact that they've been the best for so long in certain markets or that they have customers who will buy
00:53:23 ◼ ► Anything they make like us who will buy anything they make no matter how much they charge for it
00:53:27 ◼ ► We'll buy it all and it just seems like in a lot of areas. They've been coasting for the last few years
00:53:32 ◼ ► And yeah, sure. I'm sure we'll hear from people saying that the team's worked really hard. That's great. Good for you, but
00:53:42 ◼ ► Like for instance, you know the aforementioned laptops like the laptop line has not been very competitive recently
00:53:52 ◼ ► I mean the laptop line has not been very competitive recently for like three years in a lot of areas
00:53:58 ◼ ► Compared to competitors laptops like you look at what Microsoft is doing what a lot of the PC makers doing even it sometimes even what?
00:54:06 ◼ ► The laptops and like the PCs and like the things are doing the they're hustling. They're they're really trying hard. They're moving fast
00:54:12 ◼ ► They're making great hardware. And yeah, it isn't always perfect and yeah apples still ahead in certain areas
00:54:22 ◼ ► Is this the best they can do? I don't think it is like it doesn't it doesn't feel like that
00:54:40 ◼ ► Zooming ahead constantly way ahead of even where it needs to be and there's no one even in sight like the the hardware is doing great
00:54:55 ◼ ► We'll see I think this year might have some big changes there. So we'll see what happens there
00:54:58 ◼ ► But like it just seems again Mac OS there's no hustle there at all and there hasn't been for quite a while
00:55:09 ◼ ► You know more more amenable to to pro work and multitasking and everything else the iPhone I think does well
00:55:26 ◼ ► Again, whether or not they're actually taking their foot off the gas. I don't know. We'll never know
00:55:30 ◼ ► We'll hear we'll hear people will hear reports from people on the inside saying it both ways
00:55:34 ◼ ► We're gonna hear from people saying yeah, you know what ever since you know, some manager took over then they everything's been slow
00:55:50 ◼ ► So we don't know what to believe but what it looks like from their customers from our point of view
00:55:55 ◼ ► Looking at what Apple's doing and looking at what their competitors are doing in the meantime
00:55:59 ◼ ► It sure seems like Apple has very little hustle in some key areas that a lot of us care about
00:56:08 ◼ ► Something light a fire on them like like John said like it is we do tend to have better output from Apple
00:56:19 ◼ ► We haven't seen that feeling from them in a lot of these areas in a while. So I'm hoping this is
00:56:42 ◼ ► For the financial results of their largest most profitable product by a long shot that that's a pretty big failure
00:56:54 ◼ ► that's a pretty big failure and they haven't had one of those in a long time and I think they've really really needed this because
00:57:03 ◼ ► They're not they don't have their foot on the gas enough and I really want to see that change and I hope this will
00:57:10 ◼ ► See, I wouldn't describe it that way in terms of hustle and effort. Like I think they sound terrible
00:57:15 ◼ ► But it's like actually vaguely true in this but you know the work smarter not harder thing
00:57:21 ◼ ► Like they have too much hustle in certain areas. It's kind of like we're talking about the MacBook era that
00:57:29 ◼ ► Like that's that's part of people throwing around that Steve Jobs quote. I think the fact that market you retweeted somebody mentioning it like
00:57:34 ◼ ► That you shouldn't chase profits Steve Jobs something that you know, you shouldn't chase profits
00:57:38 ◼ ► You just try to make the best product you can make and if you make a really good product profits will follow, right?
00:57:45 ◼ ► And everyone and Apple will say it or whatever but the thing that's not said the unspoken
00:58:00 ◼ ► Measure the goodness of a product and that is I where I think Apple's falling down like
00:58:15 ◼ ► You know object purity of the things they make but that doesn't actually make a good laptop a good phone a good
00:58:36 ◼ ► But there are other parts that make a good product and they're losing sight of those products by putting
00:58:40 ◼ ► too much hustle into having the minimum number of screws and the lowest number of moving parts and
00:58:46 ◼ ► Incredibly small gaps around all the keys in their keyboard and other stuff like that right look at how stable these keys are
00:59:01 ◼ ► But at the expense of everything else no, but I'm saying that I think it's I think it's more valid than your thing
00:59:16 ◼ ► But not nearly as much effort to thinking about the you know other aspects of the product they think about the other
00:59:24 ◼ ► So it's not like they're ignoring them right it's a balance right and so that's gets back to the statement
00:59:27 ◼ ► We just make great products. It's premised on the idea which Steve when Steve Jobs was around
00:59:34 ◼ ► I know what's good right and most of the time he did occasionally didn't he didn't you know the iPod high-five?
00:59:40 ◼ ► Wasn't that great the power mic g4 cube not not that great even though it was super cool, right?
00:59:51 ◼ ► If your opinion of great product is different than your customers opinion of great product
00:59:55 ◼ ► You start to have this kind of disconnect, and I don't think it's because of lack of effort. I think it's because of
01:00:00 ◼ ► Misdirected effort so you've got this whole company of very smart people working really really hard on
01:00:07 ◼ ► Ever so slightly the wrong balance of things and you do that long enough you end up in a situation where you have
01:00:39 ◼ ► And you make the CPU like there's many areas where they are excelling and it's worthwhile
01:00:43 ◼ ► But many areas where they are excelling and it is less worthwhile, and so that's I think you know the phones
01:00:49 ◼ ► maybe you just bad luck that they happen to be pressing up the prices on their phones at the same time that a
01:00:56 ◼ ► Market that that's super important to them because it's the only place where they can have any substantial growth takes a downturn
01:01:01 ◼ ► That's the worst time to have $1,200 phones that suddenly become $4,000 phones because of terrorists or whatever right but on the other hand
01:01:08 ◼ ► It's kind of their own fault for abandoning the low end of the of the phone line and saying we're just gonna sell old phones to
01:01:14 ◼ ► fill that gap which is less satisfying to consumers because old phones just feel old because they've been seen before even if you just
01:01:28 ◼ ► Just basics like that and we've talked about the laptop line in the Mac. This is not about this is just about the phone
01:01:32 ◼ ► But I continue to think that it's not lack of effort effort lack of hustle. It's a slight misbalance of
01:01:39 ◼ ► The prioritization it's in the end. It's a crisis of taste. It's like how do you you know? How do you tell?
01:01:45 ◼ ► When a product is good. We're just gonna make the best. We're just gonna try to make a good product
01:01:50 ◼ ► You better make sure that what you think is good is what everyone else thinks is good right and that's that was another Steve Jobs
01:01:57 ◼ ► Video someone put up. We just try to make the best price we can and the consumers like them
01:02:05 ◼ ► I mean there's more complexity to it, but if people liked the phones that Apple was putting out
01:02:10 ◼ ► Like as in in their whole not just like oh if I gave you this phone for free would you like it?
01:02:16 ◼ ► But just here's a product. Here's a price. Here's everything about this phone. What do you think of it and what consumers thought it is?
01:02:21 ◼ ► We are not inclined to give you as much money as you thought we were going to give you for the phones that you're offering
01:02:26 ◼ ► And that is the time for Apple to look at what they were offering customers and say what it is about what we're offering
01:02:39 ◼ ► The answer is not that they had difficulty transferring the data and the answer is not that they wanted to lay away plan for crying
01:03:01 ◼ ► an unforeseen balance of features and price and is instead an extremely expensive phone that is not that much better than the old phone and maybe
01:03:08 ◼ ► Abandoning the SE and abandoning the low end of the line to just hand me down phones is not a great strategy
01:03:18 ◼ ► I just I just want to say that I don't think it's a lack of effort. I think it's a misdirected effort
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01:05:46 ◼ ► One of the things that I believe we've talked about on the show and made brief rounds through people like us a few years ago
01:05:58 ◼ ► Retention is gonna be a problem for Apple and we said this and I don't know exactly when but I found a post from Gruber
01:06:09 ◼ ► It was interesting to me thinking about you know, I I don't know what it's like to be an Apple employee
01:06:20 ◼ ► For being an employee is is in the way of stock or stock options or something or stock grants or something like that
01:06:32 ◼ ► But you might get 50 or 100 or 200 thousand dollars worth of stock related things every year
01:06:56 ◼ ► I bet you it's gonna be a lot lower because all this stuff happened after hours that we've been discussing
01:07:16 ◼ ► It seems like when this sort of thing happens a lot of times a lot of people will leave and go to one of the other
01:07:26 ◼ ► but you'll see a bit of a quiet exodus to Facebook or maybe Tesla or something like that and
01:07:48 ◼ ► But but I don't know if a better one a crisis of retention and talent at Apple and then secondarily secondarily
01:08:03 ◼ ► hasn't been all that interesting lately at least from what I can tell and I'm sure I'm gonna get a bunch of email about this but I
01:08:10 ◼ ► Can't point to anything that Google's done lately. That's been specifically interesting. So
01:08:14 ◼ ► Where does the talent go? They all just go to startups and hope for the best like where does this all go?
01:08:34 ◼ ► Well, at least not for a very long time sought a job in Silicon Valley. I haven't ever had a job there and
01:08:57 ◼ ► We do we have heard though that you know for multiple multiple people and multiple occasions. We have heard that yes indeed
01:09:04 ◼ ► You know many Silicon Valley companies Apple included do base a lot of their competition on stock options
01:09:12 ◼ ► I've heard on a number of occasions. I don't I hope not insulting anybody here. I've heard that
01:09:22 ◼ ► Competition like that. They don't have like the highest salaries in the valley which itself I think is dumb because
01:09:36 ◼ ► That's stupid. Like that's that's an easy problem to fix. They have the money to fix it
01:09:41 ◼ ► They have plenty of the money to fix it that that should not be a reason why somebody choose not to work at Apple
01:09:51 ◼ ► Then the stock really is a substantial part of people's compensation, you know, it's one thing, you know
01:10:01 ◼ ► But it you know, unless it's like an early-stakes startup. Those are not going to be worth like a fortune, you know
01:10:06 ◼ ► They might be they might be like a nice bonus and that's that's that's the much more common scenario
01:10:17 ◼ ► Like a dip like this would hurt a little bit and some people might quit but it wouldn't be like a huge problem for you
01:10:23 ◼ ► Whereas if you're relying on the stock options as a substantial part of the compensation this becomes a larger problem
01:10:31 ◼ ► So by by making it a larger part of the compensation you are basically taking more risk with your employees you you are
01:10:38 ◼ ► putting more of your personnel problem onto your stock price then you necessarily need to and
01:10:51 ◼ ► You know even when Apple grows like I think most of the large growth is behind them not in front of them
01:10:57 ◼ ► Right, like they went through this this awesome growth period. I think that's mostly done
01:11:03 ◼ ► So the potential upside for them like the money they could save by giving things a stock options instead of more salaries to people
01:11:11 ◼ ► I think most of that upside is behind them and now they're just left with all those risk
01:11:22 ◼ ► Hope they are making the stock options less of a port less of a part of people's compensation and
01:11:32 ◼ ► But I have pretty much no information on that subject. So I really can't say what they actually are doing
01:11:48 ◼ ► Have visited the campuses of a few of them the biggest contrast for me was visiting Apple and then visiting Facebook
01:11:55 ◼ ► I cannot possibly see how somebody who works at one of those places could go to the other one. I
01:12:13 ◼ ► Whether you're doing good things for the world or whether you're being the worst company in the universe
01:12:19 ◼ ► To me it was a no-contest. I was in these two places and I'm like, well clearly like Apple
01:12:25 ◼ ► This is where the adults work like Facebook like all the teenagers can go there. That's great. This is here at Apple
01:12:30 ◼ ► This is where the adults get real work done. That's that was the clear feeling between the two places
01:12:39 ◼ ► Well, I visited the New York office, which is hilarious, but I don't think that that would really count
01:12:48 ◼ ► There are some areas where they are very competitive with the companies where Apple has had problems getting and retaining talent
01:12:54 ◼ ► One of the big areas there is services and and especially in the area of you know, machine learning
01:13:03 ◼ ► You know things like the iCloud infrastructure kind of stuff like Apple has historically had a lot of problems getting
01:13:09 ◼ ► Retaining talent there and have lost a lot of people to places like Google because they they do more like AI research type stuff
01:13:15 ◼ ► That is that is higher prioritizing the company. So Apple does have problems there, but I don't think those usually money related necessarily
01:13:22 ◼ ► Those tend to be more like people who want a company that prioritizes their area of expertise higher than Apple does
01:13:40 ◼ ► Apple can avoid these problems if they make stock options less a part of people salaries and make up for it with
01:14:07 ◼ ► You're gonna get rich off of them because they had their big growth period and now they're the biggest company in the world
01:14:11 ◼ ► Probably the amount of growth that they're gonna have in the future is not gonna be as great as it has been in the past
01:14:27 ◼ ► Never mind that I don't know what the mix of options and RS use and all those stuff is like they could just give you them
01:14:33 ◼ ► Give you shares and say well the shares are worth this much money. So we're just giving you money
01:14:42 ◼ ► But the idea that you get hired and there's a big upside for you because whatever the stock price is now in a few years
01:14:49 ◼ ► Disproportionate somewhat irrational hit to their stock prices. They probably are sure to do
01:15:01 ◼ ► For the long term success, but in the short term just make Wall Street angry about them
01:15:07 ◼ ► That actually makes it easier for Apple to hire because Apple can say we are massively undervalued now when you come on board
01:15:21 ◼ ► So whereas before when their stock price was 232 the highest it's ever been or whatever
01:15:33 ◼ ► like it's not there's not a big growth story to be told there, but if they're down in the dumps and if they have a a
01:15:43 ◼ ► Like that Apple is undervalued that it's too low that this company makes so much money and has so much success so much brand value
01:15:53 ◼ ► There's people who thought they were too low to 32 because their price dairies ratio is always ridiculous as compared to the some of their
01:15:59 ◼ ► But taking a huge hit because like this is the first bad news and you know multiple decades or whatever
01:16:04 ◼ ► Is it time that it makes them easier to hire now retention if you have a bunch of options and you're like you can exercise
01:16:16 ◼ ► What Apple's been doing in terms of giving people options versus giving people RS use or whatever because they if they give people shares
01:16:22 ◼ ► Things that are just immediately redeemable for shares and not options and you have those shares
01:16:27 ◼ ► You're sad because your shares went down. But if you're in it for the long haul you're like well
01:16:35 ◼ ► Well, and we're hearing some we're hearing from people in the chat and stuff that Apple does just do ours using that kind of thing
01:16:40 ◼ ► Not actual straight options and that's fine. I think I think all this actually applies regardless
01:16:44 ◼ ► Basically, you are tying your you're tying a substantial part of your employees compensation to the stock price the company that you know
01:16:52 ◼ ► However, you do it that is the result but it's not but options are tying your compensation to the growth of the stock price
01:16:59 ◼ ► Whereas RS use you're just giving them instead of giving them money you're giving this over the other money that is variable
01:17:16 ◼ ► All you care about is the growth of the company and if you have anything less than you know
01:17:23 ◼ ► If you have 0% growth, we've gave you nothing you have one person like it's all about growth
01:17:30 ◼ ► Trajectory the big growth trajectory like that's where you get really rich where they give you what they thought was a small amount
01:17:35 ◼ ► But the stock price quintuples and now you've got way more than you thought you did. So
01:17:39 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't know what their compensation structure is like and you know Apple like reportedly Tesla
01:17:45 ◼ ► You know similar companies like you should just be glad to even work here because we have high prestige and they do there is lots
01:17:50 ◼ ► Of prestige working for Apple. There is lots of prestige working for Tesla or whatever, you know company that has a good reputation
01:17:57 ◼ ► When you when you say you work there people are impressed prestige is part of your compensation package
01:18:01 ◼ ► Just like this stupid falcon wing doors are part of the the futuristic compensation package you get when you buy a Tesla
01:18:08 ◼ ► And to the degree that it becomes less impressive to work for Apple they have to adjust for that but I think
01:18:19 ◼ ► In the end I think the upside of being able to hire more based on being massively undervalued probably offsets any
01:18:25 ◼ ► People who are sad because their RS use are you know that their shares are worth less now than they were because I think
01:18:41 ◼ ► It's not that much of a revolving door company as much as we know so many people who left Apple and come back
01:18:46 ◼ ► They do it in waves of multiple years. It's not like they work there for three months then leave then come back
01:19:00 ◼ ► People already don't like it that the price went down, but I think that Apple has long since stopped being a company where
01:19:10 ◼ ► one of their angle that I that I hadn't consider until you just said that you know, the whole dropping door thing is
01:19:21 ◼ ► A lot of them came back or whatever else a lot of that was because we had this booming app
01:19:29 ◼ ► Like they don't allow side projects really and so there was this whole world of the App Store
01:19:40 ◼ ► I know all these frameworks and everything really well and I know exactly what would make a good app and I can
01:19:46 ◼ ► so maybe I should strike out on my own and see if I can make it as an app maker and many of them did for
01:19:53 ◼ ► Then over the last few years as the app market has cooled and become much more challenging to succeed in
01:20:00 ◼ ► Many people have actually left that world and gone either to Apple or gone back to Apple who you know who were there before
01:20:11 ◼ ► This is anec data. But this I know a lot of people and I heard about a lot more who had a similar pattern to
01:20:18 ◼ ► Maybe you know if Apple's stock price hit is the result of an overall cooling market out there that you know
01:20:25 ◼ ► That we're in for kind of some, you know belt tightening all around and and the entire, you know
01:20:31 ◼ ► financial market kind of cooling down a little bit that actually might be good for Apple's retention because a lot of people might
01:20:37 ◼ ► retreat back into the safety of working there and and might and people are would be less tempted to leave who are already there because
01:20:44 ◼ ► What's going on outside of Apple is less tempting than it is during like a big boom time
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01:22:54 ◼ ► Josh A. writes on the most recent episode of Reconcileable Differences Merlin made passing reference to the seminal
01:23:06 ◼ ► I was wondering if John could or had already discussed his opinions on the various permutations of controllers for it
01:23:12 ◼ ► I had heard several opinions that the pro controller is the quote best controller ever made quote, which seems like a bold statement
01:23:22 ◼ ► Procontroller is not the best controller ever made but to address the controller-ness of the switch
01:23:31 ◼ ► Television console that's also also a portable console portable consoles historically and probably
01:23:44 ◼ ► You can't you don't want them to be too big or and also you don't want them to be too like
01:23:49 ◼ ► Unwieldy like in difficult to shove into a bag or a case or something. So they tend to be flat
01:24:01 ◼ ► Pretty much all the ones I've seen you are holding the entire device up while you use it
01:24:26 ◼ ► But the switch has a mode where you can play it where you don't have to hold the device
01:24:33 ◼ ► You can take them off the side and put the little screen on a little kickstand and now you're not holding the screen
01:24:38 ◼ ► You're just holding the little controllers, but those little controllers were things that fit on the side of the flat portable device
01:24:49 ◼ ► The Game Boy micro or whatever like Game Boy Advance micro. I think that's the smallest one they ever made
01:25:03 ◼ ► Everything about them is small. The joysticks are small. The buttons are small. The shoulder buttons are small
01:25:08 ◼ ► The controllers themselves are small and whether you keep them on the thing and have to hold up the entire device by the small
01:25:36 ◼ ► But there's no getting around the fact that they're really small the fact that many games expect you to use them as d-pads
01:25:46 ◼ ► They they have to have strike this compromise between being sensible to use vertically and also when you turn them sideways
01:25:57 ◼ ► The buttons are practically in the middle on one of the joy cons and the quote unquote shoulder buttons are very awkward to hit
01:26:03 ◼ ► So they have those little attachments to make them slightly less awkward to hit but those attachments make you
01:26:07 ◼ ► Feel like you're hitting a button that hits a button because that's exactly what you're doing and it is not a good feeling
01:26:19 ◼ ► Basically painful. I mean I have RSI and everything right but for even just a regular people it's awkward and it is unresponsive
01:26:25 ◼ ► The shoulder buttons are not as responsive and if you take off that the top thing and just put the shoulder buttons directly
01:26:32 ◼ ► Bottom line the joy cons are not good controllers. They're okay for what they do. It's amazing
01:27:02 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't know geometrically pleasing that's not great. I missed the octagonal surround that lets you know
01:27:13 ◼ ► For things like first-person shooters where people like to have more freeform control than that
01:27:17 ◼ ► Even though it's not as good for like a platform game or whatever. So the pro controller is it's very it is very good controller
01:27:30 ◼ ► The joy cons now and even though I've complained about the switch ergonomically bottom line is if you want to use something portable
01:27:35 ◼ ► Like as a portable gaming console and you don't have like a table to put the thing up on it
01:27:39 ◼ ► You have to hold the entire device in your hand if you're holding entire device in your hand
01:27:50 ◼ ► The switch because it is flat and it is this tall and I wouldn't want it to be any taller and I wouldn't want it
01:27:55 ◼ ► To be any less flat than it is like it's already pushing up against that limit with the big thick shoulder pad. So
01:28:00 ◼ ► It's an understandable compromise, but I don't like using it that way and they're not good controllers
01:28:07 ◼ ► So that probably went on too long. I probably got any longer, but I'm cutting myself short
01:28:11 ◼ ► You know we when we were together John we played some Mario Kart and I could not agree with you more that using the joy cons
01:28:25 ◼ ► Don't know bulges that that that are kind of used to help you grip them when they're in the normal mode attached to the switch
01:28:34 ◼ ► Physically uncomfortable because you're bracing the joy con against that bulge which is in jamming into one of your fingers
01:28:40 ◼ ► It's just not fun now that being said, I mean, it's still an amazing device and I do love my switch
01:28:45 ◼ ► Even though I don't use it that terribly often and I think that I feel like I understand the compromises they made and they all
01:28:53 ◼ ► But I don't mind when they're you know being used in their regular mode and vertical mode and portrait mode if you will but in landscape
01:29:05 ◼ ► Hate the joy cons like you guys I I never want to use them which you know, I never use the switch
01:29:12 ◼ ► Portably because I don't like the screen. It's it's both too small and also not very not a very nice screen
01:29:20 ◼ ► And I really really hate the feel of the joy cons. So like I'm the only person in the world who wants like a switch
01:29:32 ◼ ► You know just has it basically has the the grip of a pro controller which should of course make it
01:29:38 ◼ ► Massive like nobody else except me would actually want such a thing and and while they're there they can make the screen really big because we're
01:29:44 ◼ ► Already making something that's basically the size of a Sega Genesis. Yeah, I find the switch
01:29:48 ◼ ► Ergonomics to be awful unless you are using a pro controller and a TV in which case I love it
01:29:54 ◼ ► So I'm not as much of a controller snob as John. I don't know if anybody in the world is but
01:30:02 ◼ ► But I have had no problems with the pro controller really except for the one small problem that there is no way to turn it off
01:30:20 ◼ ► So it is or if you're just like if you are moving pro controllers around say like in a cabinet
01:30:30 ◼ ► It's kind of annoying to not have a power switch on it. Other than that. That is my only complaint other than that
01:30:34 ◼ ► It's totally great. I love it. I love that charges by USBC. I love you know the feel of it
01:30:50 ◼ ► And Kerr Oberoi writes. Hey these new air pads should air pod should still be coming at some point or another
01:30:57 ◼ ► Will they use USB C or lightning or any chance for the new air pods to just have chi charging?
01:31:08 ◼ ► For me, I would be very surprised to see the iPhone or air pods move to USB C anytime soon
01:31:15 ◼ ► That being said as I collect more and more devices including the switch and the pro controllers as Marco just mentioned including my
01:31:42 ◼ ► But John when do you think when do you think we're going to USB C if ever on air pods or phones?
01:31:47 ◼ ► Airpods are weird because the the only pattern that can be discerned with Apple's use of USB C
01:32:02 ◼ ► You know full-fledged device with screen is the the iPads like and they only recently on the super duper, you know pro ones, right?
01:32:08 ◼ ► So would they skip over all the middle things and go to like one of their smallest things the tiny little air pod case
01:32:14 ◼ ► There's no reason the air pods have to be have to have lightning or USB C like the case has plenty of room for both
01:32:31 ◼ ► There's not you know, the the arguments for the phone for the thinness and then and the screen and everything
01:32:38 ◼ ► I mean, I'm gonna say no just because like inertia and assuming the air pods were designed a long time ago
01:32:46 ◼ ► I'm assuming it's just gonna be lighting because the existing ones are lightning and I'm and these ones are probably designed
01:32:59 ◼ ► So I think actually surprisingly air pods are a candidate to move to USB C before the phone
01:33:10 ◼ ► You know the thinnest reasons and also because don't rock the boat like it's such a popular product
01:33:14 ◼ ► You don't want to do anything to perturb customers who have tons of lightning cables all around
01:33:24 ◼ ► Regardless of their wireless charging situation and the phone I think we've had whole shows where we talked about that
01:33:31 ◼ ► The air pods case should always have the same port that the iPhone has because you're gonna want to charge your air pods
01:33:39 ◼ ► when you have your phone with you sometimes and you're gonna like if you if the air pods are
01:33:45 ◼ ► USB C and the phone is lightning you could be out somewhere using your phone like on a plane or something and not have a USB C
01:33:56 ◼ ► You wouldn't you would have to have two different chargers if you traveled with an iPhone and air pods. That's ridiculous
01:34:02 ◼ ► You know, we already have enough different charges. We don't need a reason there. So I think the for a you know
01:34:15 ◼ ► I would love to see that because we already have so much of the rest of the world moving to it now
01:34:25 ◼ ► Especially because it's just so nice to have fewer cables and fewer types of connectors and everything
01:34:33 ◼ ► The one cable that can do it all the one charge with the one battery whatever else and I have all that with USB C now
01:34:43 ◼ ► Weird to me those are like oh I need to get the special cable out to charge my lightning things
01:34:49 ◼ ► You know, like that's it feels it feels bad. It feels like the past and it feels like, you know unnecessary friction
01:34:58 ◼ ► I just I hope we someday can reach the all USB C future before like USB D comes out and we have to change it
01:35:05 ◼ ► All again, I just want I just want like two years where it's stable and where everything supports USB C
01:35:28 ◼ ► Like I don't I'm sure like it's not enough money for them to like make major product decisions around it
01:35:35 ◼ ► The reason the USB C port can fit on the iPad and the iPad is way thinner than the iPhone
01:35:44 ◼ ► but there is an issue of like how thick can the device be and have a screen that goes above a
01:35:52 ◼ ► USB C port because on the iPad it doesn't on an iPad the USB C port is basically the depth inside the case of
01:36:00 ◼ ► The screen bezel, so I don't think there's any point in there or at least not like, you know
01:36:05 ◼ ► A major point where the screen is actually going over the USB C ports like internal volume on the phone
01:36:11 ◼ ► The margins are a lot narrower and so I don't there isn't enough room on a phone to have a USB C port
01:36:26 ◼ ► I mean, I'm sure you can make the phone, you know, there is some thickness for which that would work
01:36:49 ◼ ► But yeah, it would probably still have like it would be like a hybrid like it would still have a notch
01:36:56 ◼ ► But would be you know, the straight sides and USB C. I would love this product. This is like my dream iPhone
01:37:02 ◼ ► I don't know if they're actually able to make that or if they're planning on making that that would be nice
01:37:08 ◼ ► That's what I hope and if they did that then I would expect an AirPods update that would also have USB C because again
01:37:13 ◼ ► It just makes sense for AirPods and iPhone to have the same charging plug no matter what it is
01:37:18 ◼ ► I don't think AirPods would go Qi only because I don't think a Qi coil can fit on the back of AirPods and I don't
01:37:33 ◼ ► Point about wanting to charge with the same cable that charges the phone. I think you're absolutely right
01:37:38 ◼ ► And so I think these will move in lockstep. Oh god. I just thought they would probably make us pronounce why 11
01:37:43 ◼ ► God, I hope not that would be the iPhone 11. It's spelled iPhone Y. It's YS, but it's 11s
01:37:49 ◼ ► It's the iPhone is why it's not the Roman numeral for 11, you know, so but that wouldn't stop Apple's marketing department
01:37:55 ◼ ► Yeah, all right. No one to no and end endo nada, which I think is translated to I do not understand anything
01:38:03 ◼ ► Rights in Brazil Volkswagen's launching a small hatchback featuring beats audio an example of quote-unquote Apple selling parts for car manufacturers
01:38:10 ◼ ► What's in the steel for Apple? I think money obviously. I don't read too much into this to me
01:38:17 ◼ ► This is the beats unit doing the sort of thing that you would expect beats to do if they were still independent
01:38:30 ◼ ► Apparently this is in the Novo polo Volkswagen or that I should say the Volkswagen Novo polo
01:38:46 ◼ ► It's probably just like you know, who knows who actually makes the audio system and I think it's got the word beats on it
01:38:56 ◼ ► Apple engineering that goes into this so it's just yet another case of random branding of
01:39:02 ◼ ► Semi-premium options in cars and you know beats is weird because it's one of those out companies that Apple acquired
01:39:20 ◼ ► Maybe they're big in Brazil or maybe this is just yet another one of those weird card options that comes and goes I don't
01:39:33 ◼ ► Brands that have like a lot of consumer recognition like beats or like Bose or Harman Kardon to license their name
01:39:45 ◼ ► Fridges who knows but like it like I think actually was beat her for a while HP laptops would advertise
01:39:51 ◼ ► They had some brand names audio in them. I think it was actually beats. This is before Apple bought them
01:39:56 ◼ ► but like this there's a long history of companies doing stuff like this and it's almost always like a really
01:40:05 ◼ ► Maybe they have like an EQ that boosts the bass all the time and gives it like the beat
01:40:10 ◼ ► Signature sound and maybe beats had to go approve the car and make sure it sounds like beats or something
01:40:16 ◼ ► But like that's again, this is a very common thing in the audio marketing world and it's it's not really anything
01:40:23 ◼ ► Noteworthy. Yep agreed. Anyway, thanks to our sponsors this week hover Eero and Linode and we will talk to you next week
01:41:33 ◼ ► Started using homekit for the first time, you know, it's funny you bring that up me too
01:41:40 ◼ ► I don't think but uh, but we have a single we most switch that are not switch. I keep calling to switch
01:41:49 ◼ ► I actually want to get one of those I keep bookmarking links when people say oh you should get this one
01:41:53 ◼ ► But then someone says oh the the we mo plug that everyone recommends only works on 2.4 gigahertz wireless and has some problems
01:42:12 ◼ ► the good thing is that you know, you don't really need to use the app beyond setup like you configure it and then
01:42:26 ◼ ► Yeah, you can actually yeah the same if the older generation you can't or you need like a bridge and I decided like a bridge
01:42:34 ◼ ► costs like 40 bucks that you can make like you can make all the old ones do home kit, but
01:42:39 ◼ ► Throughout the like Black Friday season. I scored a few deals where I got them for like 15 bucks each
01:42:44 ◼ ► So I guess replace all the old outlets with new it was like it was like $15 or more to just get all new ones
01:42:48 ◼ ► I'm like, alright, I'll just do that not need the stupid bridge forever. Yeah, so what you want is like the white rectangle ones
01:42:57 ◼ ► Are you in the slack where somebody said to one more gigahertz only and doesn't work well with multi
01:43:02 ◼ ► Node systems like a euro. Yes, but I haven't had that problem personally. I mean I have a multi node system
01:43:12 ◼ ► So my system it's ubiquitous if it is an era but I have it set up so that I have a smart home devices
01:43:22 ◼ ► Interesting and this is admittedly an you know overwrought solution that might not be necessary
01:43:27 ◼ ► But I I had some issues in the past that I don't know would still be issues today that were fixed by doing that
01:43:55 ◼ ► but these are indeed then controllable via the you know, the Alexa cylinder and also by home kit and
01:44:10 ◼ ► So like, you know, if you don't want to deal with certain things in home get whatever you can do it in the wemo app
01:44:16 ◼ ► It even has some random some like limited intelligence about things like sunset and sunrise stuff like that
01:44:24 ◼ ► They've been totally fine. We keep buying more whenever we have a need like it's nice like for Christmas
01:44:31 ◼ ► We put our Christmas tree on one of these and we could say hey cylinder turn on Christmas and it turn on the Christmas tree
01:44:38 ◼ ► It's nice at the end of the night to say turn off everything and have everything turn off, you know, and you go upstairs
01:44:52 ◼ ► I like I finally did it right where actually like move things out of default room and gave them real names and
01:45:02 ◼ ► You know turn on bedroom lights or good night and have it shut everything off and it's not bad
01:45:07 ◼ ► I gotta say it's from the home pod. It is the fastest thing the home pod can do, you know
01:45:13 ◼ ► I complain last week that Siri just too slow on the home pod like it takes forever to respond to things like start a timer
01:45:18 ◼ ► And so long that you're you don't you think maybe didn't hear you and you start to say it again then it says, okay
01:45:35 ◼ ► Turn on outside lights and have my outside lights go on and stuff like that. So it's nice having it be in multiple places
01:45:49 ◼ ► Create groups that span multiple rooms and have divide and have things in them that are in multiple groups
01:45:55 ◼ ► You like I guess scenes or what I'm supposed to use for that. But like if I want to create a group called
01:46:01 ◼ ► Everything I need two scenes one to turn them on one turn them off, I guess I'm still learning all this stuff
01:46:06 ◼ ► So I could be wrong but there are certain things about it that are like a little bit odd and like with some of the restrictions
01:46:21 ◼ ► Have something that can turn certain things on but turn certain things off as part of the scene
01:46:26 ◼ ► So, you know there are you know powers of it that the other systems don't have or there aren't that aren't as easy in the other
01:46:44 ◼ ► Two lamps with smart outlets in our living room and we've called those to the Alexa cylinder
01:47:00 ◼ ► I think Siri is trying to take over lamps and it turns on all the things that knows about that are lights and
01:47:06 ◼ ► That's not what I want. You just have to speak it in quotes. So it knows it's not a keyword
01:47:25 ◼ ► So quickly responding to things and as nice as it is to have the microphone that's always in my pocket that I can always
01:47:36 ◼ ► Pickups of the home pod like it's wonderful long-range pickup for that. Those are all really really nice
01:48:03 ◼ ► Okay, or you can even configure to have the little short like to do kind of sound that's it
01:48:07 ◼ ► All right, but Siri it's like, okay. I've turned off all those things for you. Have a good night and happy new year
01:48:13 ◼ ► Hey while you're upstairs, you want me to you know, maybe order some pizza for you or you know, hey, you know
01:48:21 ◼ ► It's like oh my god, please stop talking. But thank you. You did what I wanted. Thank you. That's enough
01:48:27 ◼ ► You aren't a real human. I don't want to have a conversation with you. You don't need to be that polite to me
01:48:38 ◼ ► If Apple insists on having it in there, I really wish there was just a setting to turn it off. But
01:48:54 ◼ ► But I'm trying to use the home pod and Siri and home kit exclusively and it's not incredibly easy at times
01:49:06 ◼ ► System that I think like we've heard from our friends for a while that home kit has finally gotten good in recent years
01:49:13 ◼ ► And I think that's I think that's true. I think I think home kids finally arrived. It's finally good
01:49:17 ◼ ► I just got an Amazon cylinder by the way, so now I've got all the systems achievement unlocked
01:49:22 ◼ ► What was the impetus for that? It was a Yankee swap. That's what I got in the Yankee swap at work
01:49:30 ◼ ► It's a Yankee swap anybody expect but but no like it's there and I'm already fighting with it because I was the very I had the
01:49:39 ◼ ► 15 minutes before I was googling for disable indicator light echo dot of course you were like it's got a giant
01:49:46 ◼ ► It's the original dot not the new fancy one for the original dot right and it's got that giant ring
01:50:04 ◼ ► You always know whether it is hearing you like that's the one I really don't like with the home pod that
01:50:10 ◼ ► Unless you're standing around top of it. You can't tell if it's hearing what you're saying
01:50:25 ◼ ► But it's a little bit aggressive like it's getting to the point where I was considering googling had to disable the feature
01:50:30 ◼ ► Like when you have notifications or messages it goes like yellow Oh turn and I did this feature
01:50:38 ◼ ► I suppose say please stop telling me about notifications like when an Amazon package arrived
01:50:45 ◼ ► and so I come in into the solid yellow thing and it lets me know that there's something that it wants to tell me but
01:50:50 ◼ ► I'm not really into that feature. Like I can tell a package arrived. I don't need the little thing to be lit up
01:50:54 ◼ ► So I'm almost at the point where I'm asking disable that merely to just get it to turn off the light
01:51:06 ◼ ► But what if I have not spoken to you do not turn on any of your lights because they're pretty bright
01:51:22 ◼ ► I've got some lights that I want to control and I will have literally three devices that I can talk to to control those lights
01:51:27 ◼ ► Maybe I'll connect it up to all of them and they can all compete to see you control the lights first
01:51:34 ◼ ► Hey dingus turn off the Christmas tree and have the Christmas tree turn itself off like that's no different
01:51:40 ◼ ► Really than using the person in the tube or anything like that, but it's just something magical about doing that via your watch
01:51:48 ◼ ► I have more practical needs in that I have just floor lamps that are not connected to a switch
01:51:53 ◼ ► So every time I want to turn them on and off I have to walk over to the corner of the room and turn
01:51:57 ◼ ► On the lamp and then I have to walk over the other side of the room and try like by touching them
01:52:11 ◼ ► I would actually need like a smart switch or something or a smart smart light bulb. There are smart. We most switches
01:52:19 ◼ ► I think they might be but there are we mode wall switches and we I haven't installed them
01:52:23 ◼ ► But some people in the family have and they seem to work. Well, it's really nice. Like it seems extravagant to
01:52:36 ◼ ► So you don't to walk across the room and touch two lamps, but when you do that every day
01:52:40 ◼ ► It's actually a really nice little quality life improvement to just be able to speak into the air
01:52:52 ◼ ► But when you do it every day and you're saving ten steps every day like that adds up and it's just like it's a nice
01:53:01 ◼ ► Think any things in my life that make me take ten more steps every day. No, not ten fewer steps