307: Casey Apple Pencil


00:00:00   Live now. Okay and switch. Okay. Hi everybody. We are live. Hope you enjoyed your fish New Year's Eve show. Oh, yeah

00:00:07   Did you stay up watching that show? That was your New Year's Eve celebration?

00:00:11   I sure did. In fact the point of the live stream that the listeners have just heard

00:00:14   was about the time that Trey and Mike were lifted into the air during a song and

00:00:19   Played the song like on rigging in the air wearing space suits surrounded by balloons

00:00:26   You know, I really don't know. I really don't want to open this can of worms

00:00:30   So I would like to try to put this to bed as quickly as possible

00:00:33   but let me just posit that

00:00:35   Maybe you shouldn't poke quite as much fun as Dave at Dave Matthews Band as you like to do

00:00:39   Maybe you should think about pumping the brakes on that a little bit

00:00:42   You are just upset that being a fish fan is so much more fun than being a Dave Matthews fan

00:00:47   Sure, any other pre-show banter you'd like to do? I don't think so. Happy New Year everybody

00:00:54   Yeah, happy new year. The calendar has incremented over in the NS calendar dot Gregorian calendar dot standard calendar

00:01:00   Shared calendar the year date unit has incremented to the next value

00:01:06   Well, we hope wasn't it like three or four years ago that that didn't happen or something happened with alarms because they used like the the

00:01:14   Capital wise and so the lowercase wise or whatever the hell it was

00:01:16   there's been so many like

00:01:20   humorous comical and tragic date and time related bugs in iOS

00:01:24   Hey John, did you drive the model the model 3 or did you solely ride in it?

00:01:33   No, I just let Tina drive it if I go during the model s and you know, it's very similar

00:01:38   What were your interpretations and thoughts on the model 3 as a passenger and and could you perhaps channel Tina's thoughts for the purposes of?

00:01:46   The pre-show on what it was like to drive

00:01:49   That mean they need more physical controls like that's a real thing

00:01:52   It's just kind of you made that comment. He actually John drove Aaron's car

00:01:56   So I should fill the listeners in so the Syracuse's and and us met at the underscores house, which is

00:02:02   Vaguely central between the three of us and by that I mean way closer to me than them

00:02:08   But then the Syracuse's but you know, here we are and so we all got together for New Year's

00:02:12   the armaments couldn't make it this year, which was sad but no big deal and

00:02:17   so John had the opportunity to drive Aaron's Aaron's Volvo approximately 30 feet and

00:02:23   you rode to and from the airport in a model 3 and then Tina drove the model 3 briefly basically around the block and

00:02:32   You had commented on Aaron's car in the literally 30 feet that you drove it that it also does not have enough physical controls

00:02:39   but that was based on me being a passenger on a longer trip because

00:02:43   As a passenger had the opportunity to do things like adjust the climate control. Mm-hmm mess with us

00:02:47   Then there's just nothing on that dashboard

00:02:49   There's just the screen and like there's a little strip of buttons below it

00:02:52   But the dial that I thought might do something having to do with climate was seemed to only be volume and there was like

00:02:57   Play back into like it's just it's just a waste of they they have room for more buttons, but they don't turn there

00:03:02   I agree the climate control in particular in particular is frustrating

00:03:06   Yeah, and so I'm out three obviously is that taking to the extreme where you just got the screen and you know

00:03:11   You've got two little balls in the steering wheel, but beyond that this there should definitely be more physical particularly things like air vents

00:03:17   I don't want to go for a screen for that. It's not like you're safe and it's like more costly

00:03:21   It's not cheaper

00:03:22   So a lot of some things are cheaper if you put them on the screen is you don't have to have all these buttons and switches

00:03:25   But having a little actuator motors

00:03:27   That are controlled is is more expensive than just having a little stick that I can move with my finger that directs the air

00:03:33   So it's a little bit silly in that regard

00:03:36   The doors are also silly on the Model 3. Yeah the first time I when I test drove one

00:03:41   I got yelled at by the car for opening it wrong because he used the mechanical. Yep, but same thing with me

00:03:46   I mean so it's a bad design because obviously the affordance is telling me

00:03:50   To use the handle that I'm not supposed to use and the reason it has it is because it has frameless window glass

00:03:55   and unlike seemingly every other car with frameless window glass the way it works on Model 3 is

00:04:01   when you open the door it wants

00:04:04   to wants you to let the car slide the window down about an inch or half an inch and

00:04:10   Then open the door and when you close the door

00:04:12   It will slide the window glass up half an inch to tuck it under like the weather ceiling

00:04:16   so what they want you to do when you open the door is from the inside is press a button and

00:04:19   Pressing the button gives the car a chance to do its little window thing and then pop the door open

00:04:23   There is also a mechanical door open which is like where you would think the handle was a little thing that you pull on

00:04:28   So if the electronics are bad or something you can still get out of the car

00:04:32   But if you use that mechanical thing it yells at you

00:04:35   It's like I didn't have a chance to roll the windows down you just basically tore them out of the weather stripping

00:04:39   It's like look you want to have frameless windows, but I don't suggest because it's not great

00:04:43   make them work without any electronic trickery or

00:04:47   Make the mechanical door opening thing much less obvious

00:04:52   Because it looks like that's how you should get in and out of the car

00:04:56   So that's just like needless complexity one more thing that can break like they I wouldn't say they fix they change the door

00:05:02   Handles to not be like the model s

00:05:04   Where now they are still flush but to make them un-flush you just use your finger to open them instead of like a

00:05:10   sensor and a motor which is

00:05:12   Cheaper and less problem prone, but I didn't find particularly pleasing to use it's not bad and you get used to it, but

00:05:18   No, it just I thought it would be more

00:05:21   Pleasing to use the handles than it actually was

00:05:26   But anyway, they took all the complexity that there was in the door handles and they put it in the windows

00:05:30   and by the way for the record the model s also has frameless windows and has

00:05:36   At least on the interior regular door handles and when you open it like every other frameless window car I've ever seen

00:05:43   Yeah, the window goes down like a half inch, but it doesn't really matter

00:05:48   You don't really notice it and then when you close it it goes back up a half inch it and you know goes into the weather

00:05:51   Seal but you can open it normally like it's like they already solved this problem with the s and then they unsolved it

00:05:59   It's like same thing like the like when the X came out

00:06:02   It's like let's have gull wing doors which caused them lots of problems because they were so complicated like, you know

00:06:08   What doors were solved a while ago and they had to go unsolved them

00:06:12   And yeah, it seems like it's like Tesla's curse like every vehicle they make they take at least one major

00:06:18   Problem that like no one really asking kind of like Apple

00:06:22   Nobody was really asking them to redesign and reinvent component X Y or Z

00:06:26   but they did it to be cool and that component ends up like having you know,

00:06:30   huge failure rates or being really annoying or intuitive or anything and

00:06:33   Yeah, but the model 3 I think I think the model 3 might have a few of these things

00:06:38   but the the weird door handles are definitely one because the one way that

00:06:42   You would expect and assume to open a car door from the inside which lots of people have to do when it isn't their car

00:06:49   Even when it is your car

00:06:51   It's like one of the first interactions you have with the car is

00:06:54   The car yelling at you saying that you might have just hurt the car

00:06:56   You know, it's also funny to me about this is that

00:07:00   The girl that I dated in college. She had I believe it was a 2001 325 coupe

00:07:07   Which if memory serves also had frameless doors

00:07:10   which I actually do like unlike John and it did that very dance like you would go to open the handle and

00:07:16   They would shimmy the window down just a smidge and then you would close the door

00:07:20   You know

00:07:20   If you were opening the door then you would close the door and shimmy the window back up and it didn't have a problem in

00:07:23   2001

00:07:25   but in the vein of in the vein of odd door situations, you know, my dad has a c7 Corvette and it has

00:07:33   Push button to open the door both interior and exterior. So where there would typically be a handle

00:07:39   Well, there is a place for like your fingers to curl around a piece of the body to open the door

00:07:43   But it's it's not an exterior piece. It's kind of like inset within the door

00:07:47   Anyways, you push a button in there kind of like what you would do for a tailgate in a lot of cars

00:07:52   You know, there's like a little push button there and then you pull the door open but on the interior

00:07:56   there's also just a little push button like where the the grabby handle is to close the door and

00:08:02   Anytime I get in that car just by having been in that car handful of times now

00:08:05   I forget and fumble about trying to figure out

00:08:08   Where the hell is the handle to get me out of here?

00:08:10   And then there's like some god-awful, you know lever that you can pull somewhere to do what the model 3 is doing, you know

00:08:16   And mechanically open the door, but I don't know of all the things that we needed innovation on in cars

00:08:21   I'm not sure door handles was really where I would have put my

00:08:24   Doesn't seem like this is a problem that needs further solving

00:08:28   as I said on past shows there is one aspect of this the test that is actually important for Tesla in that having a

00:08:35   Car that feels futuristic is part of their selling proposition

00:08:39   So having one or two things where it's needlessly complicated

00:08:42   But also reads as futuristic to both the buyer and the people they show off their car to

00:08:47   Make some amount of sense. Like I don't I don't fault them for having features like that. It's just that

00:08:52   You know choosing which ones those are going to be and making sure that it's stuff that you can actually pull off as important

00:08:59   Like maybe I wouldn't do something as important as the door opening and closing with the the X but maybe

00:09:05   Maybe that worked out like but for the for the featureless dashboard. I feel like that is less impressive

00:09:11   than the other futuristic features and

00:09:13   More annoying long-term like that kind of purity that kind of like we're gonna have no control just gonna be one big screen

00:09:22   Maybe it's an interesting design exercise, but it's the wrong. It's the wrong trade-off

00:09:26   Riding in the car at first I thought I was glad that it had like the glass roof like it's not a sunroof

00:09:33   It's just a glass roof because that allows the roof to be very thin

00:09:36   So it's almost like the entire car has a big sunroof that is always not open

00:09:43   But you know

00:09:43   Like I looked at where the headliner was and I said if they had continued that headliner

00:09:47   From the front of the car to the back my hair would be hitting the car

00:09:50   But then I realized I didn't have the seat in the all the way down position

00:09:53   So I brought the seat to the all the way down position and I had even more headroom

00:09:56   But with that seat in the all the way down position, it's like I'm in my 92 Civic again

00:10:00   I'm practically sitting on the floor

00:10:01   So it does feel a little bit tighter on the inside

00:10:04   But it's nice that I can get to a reasonable position by adjusting the seats

00:10:07   See it felt like it was pretty well put together with the doors in the trunk both of which I opened and everything

00:10:14   Otherwise the ride felt good

00:10:17   I asked Dave about it. He said it felt a lot lighter and more nimble than the five which I can believe because it is

00:10:23   like in the ass

00:10:25   W I called the five miles apart. Yes, s and five are very similar shape. Yes

00:10:30   That is lighter than the ass and it feels lighter than the ass

00:10:33   When my wife was driving it around she you know

00:10:37   Gave it some gas as they say in the exploding dinosaurs business

00:10:41   And it felt plenty quick to me. I mean, you know, they just we were just on like not on major roads

00:10:48   So it was basically all from zero to 40 miles an hour or whatever but in that sprint it it feels very fast

00:10:53   Maybe I had less wine than an S during those acceleration runs hard. Maybe I'm just getting used to it

00:11:01   I think it does it sounds different. I think it is quieter. Yeah

00:11:05   Yeah, no, it's it's a nice car

00:11:07   And Casey's giant house on wheels

00:11:11   is ridiculous like it is just it is so big and so just

00:11:17   Overblown but it's it's nice on the inside. The dashboard is messed up. This doesn't have a lot of physical controls and we already covered that

00:11:24   The tires are ridiculous. It's tires the tires

00:11:29   Do you mean the size of the wheels or the wheels and the tires?

00:11:32   He's got Pirelli tires on an SUV which is not right and the wheel

00:11:37   Like are they 25 inch wheels? How about I believe I believe they're 20 if I'm not mistaken that's stock by the way

00:11:43   I didn't put any aftermarket anything the rubber stock the the wheels are stock everything on that car stock

00:11:48   Yeah, that's fine

00:11:52   Cool

00:11:54   Volvo XC 90 John, Syracuse says it's fine

00:11:57   It looks it looks less white in person

00:12:00   It's a freaking gray car silvery gray. It's a very light gray. It is a very light gray, but whatever

00:12:06   All right. Well fair enough

00:12:08   Well, we should start the show properly with some follow-up and we can start by having John review something else

00:12:14   So John, what have you used in the last few days that you would like to tell us about?

00:12:18   I finally got to see the new iPad which I never went to the store

00:12:23   I had to see despite saying I should really go to a store and see we actually tried one time but the Apple store in

00:12:26   Our mall is closed for renovations and unlike the last time I did this at a different mall

00:12:31   They didn't move like to a temporary location in the same mall. So there just is no Apple store in the mall

00:12:35   So I actually had a plan, you know, not a plan trip

00:12:37   But I said oh when we go to the mall for this thing

00:12:39   We should also look at the Apple store when it was closed. But anyway, I finally got to see an iPad

00:12:42   I got to see Casey's iPad, which is the 11 inch one like literally his actual iPad when we're

00:12:47   And it's nice I am

00:12:53   It's sad I was so excited about the case. Oh, I guess you didn't have the case. You've got the keyboard thing

00:12:58   I was excited about the accessories

00:13:00   But now that I've seen them in person, I'm less excited about them because they seem kind of thick

00:13:05   Oh, I don't like the keyboards anyway, so maybe the non keyboard accessories are nice. I still haven't seen those but that was kind of disappointing

00:13:11   Casey stickers on his case are awful. Oh

00:13:14   It's not the fact that there's stickers there they're not placed well

00:13:19   You've got one sticker you've got one sticker that you that looks like you were trying to center it

00:13:24   But you have not centered it and that's terrible and then they'll lay out of the other ones

00:13:28   But you're not intended to be centered but intended to be kind of like haphazard or not well placed

00:13:32   So now you just live with that you just get because they're stuck on there. So enjoy your stickers

00:13:38   I I checked in Casey's iPad is not bent. Oh, yeah, that's I forgot about that

00:13:45   Yeah, so he he grabs my iPad from like the couch or the kitchen table or something like that

00:13:50   It's like the first thing he does run. Yeah, it runs off with it and starts using it and then within like 30 seconds

00:13:57   I realize he has taken the

00:13:59   Taking the case of the the folio or whatever stupid word Apple uses word takes the folio off smart keyboard folio

00:14:05   Yeah, yeah, so he takes a smart keyboard folio

00:14:08   He takes the folio off and I see him doing the ridiculous look that he made Marco and I do which I hope you saw

00:14:14   In the show art listeners from the last episode

00:14:16   in looking peering down every every side of my iPad and oh boy

00:14:22   Did I feel vindicated when he confirmed my assessments that it was not at all bent?

00:14:27   Yep, and then I did the other I also tried to pick it up with one hand, which is very difficult

00:14:31   But I was able to do it eventually

00:14:33   And then I did the other test which I was very interested to try

00:14:39   Checking whether it rocks when you put no case on it and you put it down on a presumably on a flat table with the

00:14:45   camera down and

00:14:46   Everyone was saying oh with the camera down

00:14:48   I thought it would be rocking but I was drawing on it with with the pencil and it wasn't it didn't rock and

00:14:53   Even a last episode Marco was speculating. Maybe they intentionally bend it slightly

00:14:58   So it doesn't rock and maybe that's why his has a bend or whatever

00:15:00   I mean

00:15:02   Maybe that's what they're going for but I can tell you Casey's which does not have a bend that I could perceive

00:15:06   If you put it down with the camera bump down on a flat hard table it rocks. Of course it does

00:15:12   How could it not there's a camera poking out of one side does it rock a lot?

00:15:14   No

00:15:15   But you can both see it and feel it if you press down on one corner of this four corner thing

00:15:21   it rocks a little bit so I

00:15:24   feel like that is a I

00:15:27   Feel refreshed knowing that there's not some magic going on somewhere because everyone was saying that this thing

00:15:33   This four-cornered thing that has won a bulge in one corner only doesn't rock. It totally does

00:15:39   it's not it's the reason people I think thought that it didn't rock is because the bulge for the camera as

00:15:47   Compared to the length of the entire iPad, especially the really big iPad, but even the 11-inch is so small, right? So you it

00:15:55   The rocking is barely perceptible, but it is perceptible like it doesn't knock or bang or whatever

00:16:00   But it moves slightly and I think it's fine

00:16:03   As we'll get to a moment Casey now has a pencil

00:16:05   It's got his name on it. So in case he forgets who he is, he can look at his pencil and it says Casey apple pencil

00:16:13   Apple pencil is just the product name. That's not part of your name case. You don't get confused. Oh good. Good. Good. I've got very confused

00:16:18   Thanks for the thanks for the clarification Casey Apple pencil, you know and seeing the inscription and Apple pencil makes me think I

00:16:24   Don't really want the Apple pencil part there

00:16:27   I'd rather it just say Casey because now it says Casey Apple pencil and you can't just read Casey

00:16:31   You have to read Casey Apple pencil and I don't like reading Casey Apple pencil. I just anyway

00:16:35   The pencil is really nice

00:16:40   Whatever says about it is true

00:16:42   The matte finish is really nice as compared to the glossy one the weight felt good

00:16:46   The flat side was fine the clipping on the magnet thing is really cool

00:16:51   It far as I could tell it work like the other one the double tapping business. Take it or leave it

00:16:58   What else to say about the iPad that's about it and you know, I didn't use it very long

00:17:02   I did use the keyboard a little bit. I don't like keyboards on my iPads, but it felt okay. I you're missing out

00:17:07   Yeah, I'm with Marco you're missing out

00:17:09   My wife really doesn't like the keyboard on the back of the thing like where you can feel the keys in the back

00:17:14   I don't mind it that much. But again, I would I don't think I would get this with a keyboard

00:17:17   So yeah, that's that's my one month late

00:17:22   Brief review of the new iPad seems pretty good. It rocks raves John, Syracuse

00:17:27   Yeah, I mean I will say like I really really think like

00:17:33   After whatever it's been, you know, two months three months of using this thing

00:17:37   the only complaints I really have about it are that I do keep covering up the face ID camera and

00:17:43   That the new design of the folios where it covers the back and attaches by the back does make it a way bulkier

00:17:51   Both the keyboard and the non keyboard cover now

00:17:54   We have what we have a non keyboard cover in the family now because Tiff has one

00:17:57   both the keyboard cover and the non keyboard cover are significantly bulkier feeling than previous smart covers because they cover the back and

00:18:04   That's nice. If you wanted rear coverage as like a feature of like protection for your iPad, but I've never cared about that

00:18:12   I've never had rear protection on my iPads and it's never been a problem

00:18:15   I don't you know, they've never gotten smashed from the back or scratched or anything in my typical use so I

00:18:21   Would like for future iPads to make those covers less bulky as an option

00:18:25   The way they used to be because that is the one thing I don't really like about the the new physical design

00:18:30   Otherwise everything else about the keyboard does seem to be an improvement overall

00:18:33   But that it is substantially bulkier is the rear cover is the rear cover thicker than the old rear cover

00:18:40   It was I do have a rear cover on my current iPad Pro

00:18:42   I have like the one where the rear cover matches the smart cover on the front

00:18:46   It was to that you have to buy two things, right? So is the the non keyboard?

00:18:50   Cover for the current iPad with the rear cover. Is that as thick as the keyboard rear cover? No

00:18:55   Yes, it like the rear covers between the two are seemingly identical. It's only the keyboard side that is different

00:19:02   And so that's why I like actually I I think that the move this

00:19:06   generation is if you're gonna get a cover get the keyboard cover because it isn't actually that much bulkier than the non keyboard cover and

00:19:13   To have that the option of having a keyboard whenever you want it is really nice

00:19:17   Agreed. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I don't know you still got the keys in the back issue

00:19:21   I'd rather see it in person to see if I could deal with that trade-off

00:19:24   Well, you do have that issue

00:19:25   but but in reality I you know in my actual use like I leave it in the keyboard almost all the time and if I'm

00:19:31   Not gonna be using the keyboard

00:19:33   I will usually just detach it completely and just hold the naked iPad and then marvel at how thin and light it is without the

00:19:39   Keyboard because it's so bulky with it

00:19:41   But it really like it in practice. I hardly ever fold the keyboard back on it anymore

00:19:45   Like I just I just hit the keeper off. I'm not gonna use it. Yeah, I basically do the same thing

00:19:50   It is rare. I take the cover off, but I definitely do exactly that

00:19:54   So I think Marco you and I are pretty much at the same brain on this

00:19:57   Obviously John deliberately took some of the wind out of my sails because I did receive an Apple pencil since we last spoke

00:20:03   And I mean everything John said I mostly agree with I've never had an Apple pencil before so this is new to me

00:20:09   I do quite like

00:20:11   Using it on the iPad for drawing things. I definitely don't draw very often. So I

00:20:18   Don't I don't really I I'm glad I have it

00:20:22   I'm glad it was a gift because I think it would have been a waste of 130 or whatever dollars it was

00:20:27   Had I paid for it myself and that is like the perfect gift of my eyes something that you want

00:20:32   But you really don't want to buy here with your own money. It was very easy to shop for

00:20:37   Well, I don't know. I like stuff a lot. So and and I'm very cheap. So I like to think I'm easy to shop for

00:20:42   But anyway, but my parents bought it for me and I think they engraved it which isn't a literal engraving

00:20:49   It's just like, you know, it's printed on there. It's not like etched in or anything. It's like a screen print. Yeah

00:20:54   Yeah, they didn't grave it. I think just because they thought it would be fun to do I guess

00:20:59   I don't really know why and that's why it says Casey on it as I said on Twitter when I received it

00:21:05   I was slightly fearful that my parents might have been in on the joke and it would have said Mike was right on it

00:21:10   Which would have really ruined my

00:21:12   That would have been amazing. It would have been amazing and terrible all at the same time

00:21:16   So thank you mom and dad for not doing that. I

00:21:18   Really enjoy using what is the I'm gonna have to stall for time as I find it the the app where you can color

00:21:25   That Mike had recommended that is a bunch fun. Yeah, that was the one Mike recommended

00:21:31   It is pigment in pigment is super fun with the pencil

00:21:34   I also did a just a teeny bit of retouching on a photograph using pixel meter or pixel mature

00:21:41   and I did that with the pencil which is really nice and

00:21:44   Sketch party TV, which I have had for years but had completely forgotten about until the recent

00:21:51   sponsorship of the talk show

00:21:54   And and we were playing that a lot when we were at the underscores and that was tremendous fun

00:21:59   And obviously with the Apple pencil is much much much better

00:22:02   That's like can you just like pass a pattern with you multiple people like you don't need multiple iPads or anything, correct?

00:22:07   So what we did was we had you can do it either with I think two iOS devices

00:22:11   I think I'm not 100% sure but the way I've used it in the past is

00:22:15   With an Apple TV, so it does the kind of airplay where it's using the Apple TV as a second screen

00:22:21   Oh, that's great. And yeah, it's super great. And I think it's only like five bucks

00:22:25   I they haven't sponsored sponsored this episode, but they basically should so have your people call our people

00:22:30   But anyway, it's like Pictionary super fun really good and great party game and we were doing that with the Apple pencil, which was super awesome

00:22:35   Additionally, we were using the icon factory and friend of the show Craig Hockenberry's app Linnea Linnea Linnea. I

00:22:43   Asked him how it was pronounced. No, I asked him how it was pronounced and then I think I just pronounced it improperly

00:22:49   It's either Linnea or Linnea. We'll just keep saying them both

00:22:52   Yeah, it's Linnea because it's from the Latin word for line

00:22:58   L-I-N-E-E-U-H was his phonetic pronunciation, but nobody knows how to pronounce Latin. Yeah

00:23:03   Well, there's that too, but he he speaks near fluent Italian or did at some point. That's true

00:23:08   He is he is relatively closely qualified to it

00:23:10   Exactly. Anyway, that app is like so I walked I will characterize it probably improperly as a

00:23:18   Drawing app with a little bit of like layering and you know photoshopped stuff on it now understand

00:23:24   I know nothing about drawing and I know nothing about Photoshop, but

00:23:27   Linnea is really great in because among other things you could it has like different

00:23:31   Templates if you will so you can have like lined pieces of paper

00:23:35   There's a template for storyboarding which I plan to do the next time I do a car review car review in like 15 years

00:23:40   There's there's backgrounds for templates for mocking up iOS apps

00:23:45   It's really really cool and the layering a UI works really really well

00:23:49   I can't say enough good things about this app

00:23:51   but I

00:23:51   Bring this up

00:23:52   in part because I wanted to mention that using that as like pen and paper is really great with the Apple pencil, but

00:23:58   John's daughter is a

00:24:00   exceptionally good to my to my eye

00:24:03   Artist and so she took my iPad with permission for a while and and drew a few different things on it

00:24:10   And it was super fascinating watching her and I don't think she'd ever used this app before but watching her use

00:24:16   Linnea to to create these really to me intricate drawings that were really really pretty and and

00:24:23   Shaded and colored really well, and she was using layers to you know to add and remove stuff

00:24:28   Which is exactly what layers before I don't know it was just fascinating watching

00:24:31   John's kid do this and it was really really cool

00:24:34   And those are easily the best drawings that will ever be made with that pencil during its lifetime

00:24:39   Yeah, I gotta say I also have to do a shout out to Linnea Linnea Linnea right Linnea

00:24:46   Okay, Linnea anybody who has an iPad and an Apple pencil just buy this app like don't waffle about it

00:24:53   Don't think about it. Just buy it. You will thank me. I think it's like five or ten bucks

00:24:57   It's really inexpensive and it's amazing software. So what I like about it is I am NOT an artist like you

00:25:03   I am NOT like a

00:25:05   Drawing artist at all

00:25:07   But it is useful in the universe in life to occasionally draw something to occasionally dot

00:25:13   You know draw a diagram or you know annotate a photo or something, you know

00:25:17   Or just do like a line drawing or something and it makes it really really nice even for people like us who are not

00:25:22   Artists, so what I so like I had Linnea installed on my iPad for I don't know

00:25:29   Most of the last two years since I've had an iPad Pro three years whatever it's been

00:25:32   But because my pencil was never with me because I had the old Apple pencil

00:25:36   I I almost never used it so I didn't really know how to use it

00:25:39   But I knew I had it on my home screen for three years even I never use it

00:25:43   I'm like someday I will be glad this is here

00:25:45   And so within the you know, this first couple months of having the new iPad

00:25:49   I've already used it like four times and each time like the first time I used it

00:25:54   I I pasted into the chat here this tweet from the playing for fun account for Tiff and Mike's podcast about video games

00:26:00   It's really really good. Everyone should listen playing for fun FM and

00:26:03   anyway, so

00:26:05   the little wreaths in the corner of that image that have like the the playing for fun relay coin pixel art and

00:26:13   With the Christmas wreath and bow added to it. I drew that in Linnea

00:26:17   There was like like Tiff needed this to be you know redrawn with it in this style

00:26:22   And I had just seen they just on an update days earlier

00:26:26   And I just read their blog post where they had like this this grid template mode that you mentioned they had like certain like, you know

00:26:31   Grids or whatever they are and they had one that like if you squint right you can make pixel art with it

00:26:37   It's not it isn't like designed for that purpose and you know, there's some holes in the functionality

00:26:41   But you can do it and this was the first time I had used Linnea for more than 10 seconds

00:26:48   Because I finally had a use for I had a need for it. And so I it was like an Apple commercial

00:26:53   I come over Tiff's in front of her computer all frustrated with Photoshop. I come over with my iPad in my arm

00:26:58   I take the pencil off the top

00:27:00   I thought it was already there and fully charged and I open up this app

00:27:03   that was this amazing indie inexpensive app that has all this functionality in it and

00:27:07   This is literally the first time I've ever done anything really with really with the app

00:27:11   I was able to figure out how to do that and I did that entire thing in like 10 minutes

00:27:15   It was amazing it like Apple should have be should have been filming that and made a commercial out of how inspiring it is like

00:27:21   That's how good it was. It was amazing and and I have since used it. I think two or three more times like one time

00:27:28   We're doing some some work on a house

00:27:32   and so we had the architect over and I like took the iPad out and was doodling and it's like trying to draw on top of

00:27:38   photo and then trying to draw like what I was thinking of how we should do things and so I took the pencil and I drew

00:27:43   What I what I wanted and then she took the pencil

00:27:46   we tapped a new layer and

00:27:48   She started drawing on her own layer with what she wanted and then Tiff took a pencil and drew on another layer of what she wanted

00:27:54   It was amazing and to have all this functionality

00:27:57   That it was just so incredibly intuitive

00:28:00   And and we are friends with Craig Hockenberry here and they have not asked us to ever say anything about this app

00:28:06   They're not sponsoring we're doing this completely on our own volition here. It is that good like it is just it is the perfect

00:28:13   sketching doodling

00:28:15   Illustrating app for the Apple pencil it is made specifically for the pencil

00:28:19   It has it had like day one support for all the you know

00:28:22   Like the double tap on the new pencil and everything like you can customize that to be what you want it to be you can

00:28:27   Like switch between tools you can switch between eraser, you know, whatever you want it to be the ink engine seems very responsive

00:28:32   I haven't you know because I'm not an artist

00:28:35   I haven't used a lot of these apps but I've I've seen Tiff use some of them and some of them are kind of sluggish or

00:28:39   Choppy or just not very smooth

00:28:41   Linnea is totally smooth and awesome. So it's just it's a great app

00:28:46   It doesn't feel like it was made by like

00:28:48   Some like big company who mostly writes Java software and they kind of crapped out this iPad app

00:28:53   Like no it was made by people who really know what they're doing who really love

00:28:55   The the platform and who really get the platform and use it to its full advantage

00:29:00   so it is a fantastic app very easy to use for casual people like me and

00:29:05   And you could see from from their promo shots and everything

00:29:08   Like if you are a more talented person you can get amazing results out of it

00:29:11   But you don't need to be a talented person to use it and that's I can say that about very few iPad drawing apps

00:29:17   Especially very few that are optimized for the Apple pencil, but this is one and I strongly strongly recommend it

00:29:22   Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly and again, you know Craig's a friend of ours

00:29:27   but but we're saying this because we mean it not because he's a friend of ours and the thing that I liked about it just to

00:29:33   Put a bow on this not sponsor sponsor read it

00:29:36   The UI was extremely intuitive even for someone who has no idea what I'm doing

00:29:41   Like I've I've never I don't think I've ever owned Photoshop

00:29:44   I don't think I've even ever pirated Photoshop which might make me the only human alive that is not impossible

00:29:48   I maybe maybe at some point but you were a teenager in the 2000s. How did you not pirate Photoshop?

00:29:55   That's my point. So so I

00:29:57   Vaguely understand what layers are for and how they work and so on and so forth

00:30:01   But with with Linnea, it's extraordinarily intuitive and really really cool

00:30:05   And you can use it just for note-taking and pencil and paper type stuff, which is great

00:30:09   But we should move on Marco. How is your matte screen protector going so far so good. I actually

00:30:15   So we heard from a few people

00:30:17   mostly what we heard cuz I had asked basically like do any matte finish screen protectors exist that

00:30:25   Don't have like the rainbow noise kind of like more a looking pattern

00:30:28   whatever whatever it is like the refraction of the matte surface above the glass screen makes kind of like a rainbow noise look and

00:30:33   It kind of it makes retina screens look kind of crappy and so especially when displaying white content

00:30:38   So I basically asked like does anybody know does any matte screen picture exist that doesn't have this problem?

00:30:43   kind of leaning towards I wasn't sure that it could exist and

00:30:47   Most of the responses were no it doesn't exist or it can't exist a few people recommended that I try

00:30:54   Tempered glass screen protectors and so I got a couple of brands. So I got one coming I think tomorrow

00:30:58   So I'll try that and I'll report back next week

00:31:00   but I

00:31:02   Still like it a lot and I've mostly stopped noticing the downsides of it. Like I've mostly stopped noticing that weird

00:31:09   You know rainbow noise effect most of the time I'm using it and so I'm just enjoying the the nice finish of it

00:31:14   So I'm kind of happy with it honestly and and it does indeed feel very good with the Apple pencil

00:31:20   It is the paper like one the paper dot me. I think paper like calm one of those

00:31:26   So it's fine. I'm I'm still as happy with it as I was last week and

00:31:31   But at the same time like if I can get one that doesn't have that rainbow noise

00:31:35   I am certainly interested in trying out alternatives

00:31:38   so I'm gonna try out one of the glass ones see if it's actually any different or if it's any better or worse and

00:31:42   Go from there, you know, I just occurred to me

00:31:45   I have some more pencil related F you and through the magic of editing. Maybe you'll just slide this in earlier

00:31:50   But either way

00:31:52   one of the things that I noticed about the pencil is that I do not generally do the mic approach of

00:31:58   Manipulating the UI with the pencil, you know, so obviously if I'm in a drawing app

00:32:04   I'll tap buttons and things like that with the pencil

00:32:06   But if I'm just using the iPad say looking at I don't know tweet bot or something like that

00:32:10   I don't typically do that with pencil. I typically do that with my finger

00:32:13   however, there have been occasions where I've maybe selected text or

00:32:19   Maybe I am on a thread in Twitter and you know

00:32:23   It's like it's at Casey list at Mark Worman at Syracuse at some random person at some other random person

00:32:28   And I'm trying to tap on one of those usernames in order to figure out who this person is

00:32:32   having a precise pointing device that works with the iPad is

00:32:36   Really nice because by no fault of tap bots who make tweet bot when you have this list of all these different accounts

00:32:44   Especially if they're like, you know and it through a new line

00:32:47   So they're one on top of the other maybe it's just me, but it's hard for me sometimes to

00:32:52   Tap on the exact account. I want to hit and sometimes I'll grab the one below or to the right or to the left

00:32:58   Well, I don't ever have that problem with the pencil and goodness text selection if you're not going to do that with the keyboard

00:33:04   So you're in like Safari or something like that?

00:33:06   So you're just you're selecting read-only text that is even more

00:33:11   Incredible with the Apple pencil and so for that I've really liked it and it made me think

00:33:16   Huh? It would be really cool to have a really precise pointing device for this iPad

00:33:21   I wonder what it would be like to have a touchpad Oh God

00:33:23   So

00:33:26   Somehow I've now backed myself into kind of sort of wanting a touchpad or a trackpad

00:33:31   I should say I'm sorry on on an iPad which is something I think Steve trout and Smith has been barking

00:33:35   Barking up that tree for a while if I'm not mistaken. Oh, yeah, so yeah, that's a thing

00:33:40   That's a thing in my world now the iPad started out with

00:33:44   Mostly no good input accessories like they actually shipped that weird dock that held it in portrait mode from the beginning

00:33:50   And had a keyboard like that that existed, but I'd never even seen one in real life. Like I don't know anybody ever bought one

00:33:57   Yeah, it wasn't really made to be used

00:34:00   I mean heck the first iPad didn't even really have any design accommodations for a case

00:34:04   That's why that first iPad case was so horrendous the big like rubber condom thing that went over it

00:34:11   But you know over time the iPad despite everybody who is like, you know, kind of like a tech commentator or like a

00:34:18   iPad enthusiast or purist saying like we don't need a keyboard. We don't need a stylus, you know, and then over time

00:34:25   keyboard and stylus were both added and it turned out they're awesome and for a lot of people that made the difference between

00:34:31   the iPad being a really good useful device for them more frequently and it not being I think trackpad support is one of those things where

00:34:39   At first like who needs that you have touch you have your fingers. It's not made for a mouse pointer, etc, etc, etc

00:34:45   There's lots of arguments you can make for the trackpad not being necessary or being somehow somehow against your religion, but ultimately

00:34:52   Adding better and more precise input devices to the iPad has helped the iPad tremendously

00:34:59   Because while it is awesome to have something that you can

00:35:02   Detach from everything and just have a tablet and just use touch for everything. That's great to have an option

00:35:08   but what we also keep seeing from from actual experience with these things and market demand is that

00:35:13   If you give people ways to make it more like a laptop

00:35:17   they like that and

00:35:19   Some portion of those people will buy that and not only will you then have those extra accessory sales

00:35:24   But you will have more people using iPads more of the time because they're able to fit them into more places in their life

00:35:31   So a trackpad is just continuing that process of the iPad

00:35:36   Slowly becoming more laptop like I think it's only a matter of time

00:35:39   Yeah, it really surprised me. I don't know that I wanted a trackpad but man it

00:35:45   There are definitely times where I think it may not be so bad. And that was that was a startling conclusion for me to come to

00:35:51   We are sponsored this week by hover an excellent domain name provider. And this is a very special month for hover

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00:37:30   So check it out at hover comm slash 10 years. That's the number 10 and the word years hover comm slash 10 years

00:37:37   Thank you so much to hover for supporting our show for so long

00:37:42   They've been supporting us for I think our entire run of our show. So thank you so much to hover

00:37:46   We wish them a very happy 10th anniversary and we hope you check them out. Thanks hover

00:37:52   We have had the extraordinary luck of having

00:37:57   extremely interesting news happened just hours before the show and we are recording on a Wednesday evening and

00:38:05   right around the end of trading Apple froze trades on their stock and

00:38:10   Announced that they are altering their I'm sorry revising their guidance for Apple's fiscal 2019 first quarter, which ended on December 29th

00:38:19   And I guess the TLDR on this is that they're expecting to earn a lot less revenue than they initially thought

00:38:27   And from what I've understood from from the initial response from this the last time this happened was

00:38:34   2002 or thereabouts that they've said oh things are looking way different than we expected and I don't know a lot about this

00:38:42   I know that there are a lot of rules in the United States from the security and exchanges

00:38:46   Exchange Commission about when you need to report things how you report them and so on and so forth. So I

00:38:51   Presume some of this was compulsory

00:38:54   But one way or another Apple has made a formal statement including a letter to investors written by Tim or signed by Tim

00:39:00   anyway saying hey

00:39:02   things are not looking near as rosy as we thought they would and

00:39:05   We have some plans to fix it. But whoa, so that's kind of the quick summary

00:39:13   Let's start with John. What are what is anything else you want to add? And what's your initial take on this?

00:39:18   say it's easy to get lost in the details of the

00:39:21   financial

00:39:23   stuff here, but like we tend we tend not to cover like earnings calls on this show and get lost in the

00:39:29   business minutia and all that

00:39:32   But this is noteworthy for the reasons

00:39:34   You just said that like in general Apple tends to give guidance as they call it to say our next quarter

00:39:40   Here's what we think we're gonna do and they give

00:39:42   ranges, you know, but fairly

00:39:44   Narrow ranges say here's how much are we think our revenues gonna be here?

00:39:48   I don't you think our profits gonna be they give all this information for many many years

00:39:52   Traditionally Apple would always beat its guidance

00:39:55   They would say here's what we're gonna do and they would always do a little bit more than it like so much

00:39:59   So it was clear they're always lowballing because it looks so good

00:40:02   Wait, we told you we were gonna do five widgets and we did seven widgets. Isn't that great?

00:40:06   And we're like, wow, they did seven and they said five

00:40:10   That went on for many many years eventually around five years ago

00:40:14   I'm so bad at measuring time sometime in the semi-recent past several years ago

00:40:17   They changed to say we're not gonna do that thing where we lowball our guidance anymore

00:40:21   Now we're gonna give you like actual guidance where we're gonna give you a range of numbers

00:40:25   It's gonna be between five and seven and then when the time comes we're probably gonna get a six

00:40:29   Right for all the numbers that we did and they've been doing that for many years and they they change their accounting and there's a whole

00:40:35   bunch of details there, right so we've been in this the current period we're in is the period in which Apple says what they're gonna do

00:40:42   Within a range and they mostly hit that range occasionally

00:40:45   They're at the high end of the range occasionally lower than the range from usually

00:40:47   There at the middle or high end of the range every once in a while

00:40:51   They exceed the range by a little tiny bit

00:40:53   but not so much that you think they're lowballing everything and this event is noteworthy because

00:40:57   They had to again. I don't know the details. Maybe they had to or they did either way

00:41:02   They did announce that remember that range we gave you

00:41:05   Yeah, we have to give you a new

00:41:07   We actually think it's gonna be less than even the bottom end of our range, which has never happened

00:41:13   You know in recent memory again, we're going all the way back to 2002 the last time that happens ancient history

00:41:17   and

00:41:20   It's a very long document detailing all

00:41:23   basically

00:41:24   if you have like an entire room of people including like every tech podcast come up with as many reasons as you could think of why

00:41:30   Apple might not hit its revenue target

00:41:34   Like they're all in this document like you name it they could think of like

00:41:38   They were scraping the bottom of the barrel for like also we had that thing

00:41:42   Where we let you replace your battery cheaply that couldn't have helped and they're right that couldn't help numbers, but like all right, okay

00:41:50   You know like the shortfall is like it's some astronomical number because all of Apple's numbers are astronomical

00:41:56   But it's like you know billions of dollars right an absolute value

00:42:01   Percentage wise it's like five to ten percent depending on let they're like five percent off their their

00:42:06   Low end and like ten percent off their high end of the previous estimates right so percentage wise

00:42:12   It's not like they have 50% drop something and it it's apparently only revenue like all the other numbers

00:42:17   They gave are correct, but it's just you know

00:42:19   Revenue is the number that they're missing and they tried to more or less blame it all on China

00:42:25   Which is probably easy to do at the iPhone in China specifically

00:42:29   Which is probably easy to do because again the numbers are so big

00:42:31   But without us knowing and we probably won't know because they don't report unit sales anymore without us knowing all the details you can say

00:42:37   They basically said like the entire shortfall could be accounted by

00:42:40   The shortfall in China all right, but that doesn't tell me whether

00:42:45   Non China locations went up or down. You know is the US

00:42:49   Which is basically only thing that we know about is the US the same

00:42:53   If the world was just the US would they have hit their numbers would they have exceeded their numbers right or?

00:42:58   Is it the US went down too, but China it went down by more or is?

00:43:03   Like we don't know those kind of details

00:43:06   We all know that they blamed it on everything they could think of to blame it on including

00:43:10   economic conditions in China tariffs trade

00:43:14   currency

00:43:16   Like I forget this huge huge list of things

00:43:19   But yeah, that's the story and

00:43:24   they

00:43:26   They did a little bit in in saying what are we gonna do about it like that's the part

00:43:31   I chose to put into the show notes

00:43:33   Like they're not gonna. You know they don't make announcements about future products and blah blah blah

00:43:38   But they did say something which I don't know if they have to say something

00:43:41   But they did said we can't change macroeconomic conditions, which is true

00:43:45   But we this is Apple speaking are undertaking and accelerating other initiatives to approve our results so undertaking obviously

00:43:52   They should always be undertaking initiatives to improve their results because that's what a company is

00:43:55   They are accelerating those initiatives right one such initiative is making it simple to trade in a phone in our stores

00:44:01   Finance the purchase over time and get help transferring data to a new phone

00:44:05   Making it simple to trade in phones. We saw that and we talked about it a

00:44:09   Show or two ago Marco pointed out

00:44:12   I think it was last year

00:44:13   Maybe that showed before that Apple was making a serious push to tell you hey come to our stores

00:44:18   And you can get a new iPhone for four hundred bucks

00:44:21   Asterisk asterisk only if you trade in the other ones like they've been changing their homepage to have more you know

00:44:27   More urgent come ons they've been sending more

00:44:29   Emails and you know spam push notifications like looking kind of desperate

00:44:34   This is different than all the other times that everyone said oh iPhone sales might be bad because Apple's behavior Apple itself was behaving

00:44:41   Differently there's always been stuff where they're like oh part supplier says iPhone orders are down and iPhones doom and gloom like there's tons of people

00:44:48   Who are motivated to say that about Apple and that's a lot of the reason why people are ignoring it, but in this case

00:44:52   Apple's behavior was different, and that's how you can kind of tell that things weren't going great all right

00:44:57   So making it simple to trade in phones in our stores

00:45:00   It was it hard to trade in phones. I mean they should have said

00:45:04   You know upping the marketing budget telling people you can get a new phone for less than you think if you give us your old

00:45:11   phone

00:45:12   Finance purchase over time great buy your iPhone on a layaway plan because we know they cost as much as a house get a mortgage

00:45:17   It's like a mortgage for your phone

00:45:19   Probably not gonna really move the needle too much

00:45:22   Get help transferring data is the one that pissed me off the most because I'm like get help transferring data to the new phone

00:45:27   How about you just make that easy enough that you don't need to go into a store to get help like if someone not buying

00:45:32   An iPhone like I was gonna get a new thousand-dollar iPhone, but it's so hard to transfer data

00:45:36   It is kind of annoying to transfer data

00:45:38   But the solution is not to say we'll make it easier for you to get help transferring data

00:45:41   That's just make it better like I don't like that one

00:45:45   And they're going through more of the litany of reasons like can you think of some other reasons Apple might not have made as

00:45:50   much money like they were listening things like

00:45:53   customers adapting to a world with fewer carrier subsidies

00:45:58   Which is a transition that we are at the tail end of at best like that yeah come and like

00:46:03   That's probably true if you compare it to many years ago when subsidies did hide the cost of the iPhone

00:46:08   But like you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel if you're gonna throw that out to say

00:46:12   Here's another reason why we might not have made as much money that is probably one of the reasons

00:46:16   These are lots of reasons

00:46:17   But if you put them in a big pie chart that'd be those little wedges that you can't fit the name in right

00:46:21   They just have to have the line going down to it

00:46:23   Yeah, and there's lots of you know

00:46:27   Lots of stuff in the China section are like coded language basically blaming US government trade policies without calling it out by name

00:46:34   Economic conditions in China

00:46:37   Let less traffic in stores in China. You know just lots of reasons that

00:46:42   You know expensive phones are not selling as well as they were in China now everyone in the u.s.. Probably including us

00:46:49   Sees these results hey

00:46:51   They're not they're not moving as much money through Apple not as many people are giving money to happen

00:46:56   I was my people there's not much money is coming from customers into Apple

00:46:59   That's what revenue is it's like customers gave this money to Apple for their things

00:47:02   It doesn't take into account how much it cost Apple to make those things or anything like that

00:47:06   It's just like people have money. They give it to Apple goes into the Apple machine. That's revenue

00:47:10   and

00:47:11   There's less of that and when we see that story it fits right into our narrative that we've been talking about for the past six

00:47:17   months or whatever that Apple has been

00:47:19   increasing the prices on its products

00:47:21   slowly, but surely

00:47:24   Because because they could you know I forget with you know we never knew the correct economic term and never looked it up

00:47:30   But the idea is that if they increase the price of their products where they remax or iPhones or whatever

00:47:35   Fewer people will buy them

00:47:37   But it will will it be so much fewer that they will make less money

00:47:40   Well, they actually make more money because you know five percent fewer people will get them

00:47:44   but we're sell it for ten percent more and so we come out ahead and

00:47:47   It's you know when you when you think you've saturated the market and sold as many iPhones as you're going to sell

00:47:54   Increasingly the price of each iPhone sold is

00:47:56   One way you can try to get more money out of people

00:48:00   and the the narrative that fits with that

00:48:05   And these results together saying well they found the limit they found how much can you raise the price until it starts to?

00:48:11   Still starts to become a net loss they found the limit

00:48:15   That may be true, but it's hard to tell without knowing because again

00:48:20   We're commenting from the perspective of the US market

00:48:22   which is the only thing we really know and have any kind of intuitive feel for because we live in the US right and

00:48:26   Intuitively we have all sorts of anecdotal stories from people and you know that the phones are really expensive now

00:48:33   We know people who aren't buying them and didn't upgrade because they're too expensive and so on and so forth

00:48:37   But if all this shortfalls in China

00:48:39   We have no idea what the heck is going on with China except for what we're told in these types of stories

00:48:43   And just to give you an example Ben Thompson of a story last year in March

00:48:47   Explaining yet another reason why Apple might be in trouble in China and had to do with the fact that

00:48:51   iOS is not an important differentiator in China because the most important thing in China is not the operating system or the apps available

00:48:58   But one particular app that dominates massively which is WeChat

00:49:02   which is used by 900 million people which is astronomical and

00:49:05   You know iPhones run WeChat, but so do Android phones and so

00:49:09   the iPhone has to sell itself based on the pizzazz of the particular form factor and hardware and

00:49:15   If the pizzazz is gone like from year to year

00:49:17   There's nothing keeping anyone on iOS was like well WeChat is available on Android too

00:49:21   And that's the the application that means the most to me and the only really important application

00:49:26   So if Android phones look cool is you I'll go to them

00:49:29   The idea being that when Apple has a cool phone like the 10

00:49:32   people will flock to it, but when they have a

00:49:35   Less interesting phone like the 10s. It's like oh, it looks just like the 10. I saw that already

00:49:39   They don't have the platform lock in that

00:49:42   that makes sense to me too, but I have no idea if it's that factor if it's the tariffs if it's

00:49:47   You know economic downturn in China in general if it's because the the phone prices are increased if it's all those things combined

00:49:54   But the bottom line is any kind of situation like this where Apple is doing worse

00:49:59   than it expected to

00:50:01   Makes Apple look bad not so much that their numbers are down

00:50:04   But that they were surprised by it and had to revise their guidance that Wall Street hates it when they see uncertainty

00:50:09   They would you know Apple would have been punished if they said our revenue numbers are gonna be lower

00:50:13   They're gonna be this amount and this amount is lower than you might have hoped

00:50:16   But if they met that guidance people would think Apple knows what they're doing

00:50:19   They know exactly what numbers they're gonna get when they announce numbers have to lower them makes everybody a little bit scared

00:50:24   And so Apple's stock price is being punished for that

00:50:27   But when things go badly like this

00:50:29   every part of

00:50:32   Apple's product strategy is suddenly

00:50:34   Reopened for debate within the company so that whole thing about

00:50:39   Increasing the prices of your product slowly and putting less stuff in the box for that price

00:50:43   That's now

00:50:46   More up for grabs than it used to be the idea of giving people miniscule amounts of iCloud storage all right

00:50:52   You know we need that service revenue or whatever

00:50:55   That may be more again more up for grabs than it was before because when things go badly

00:50:59   People are much more open to new ideas right ideas that would never be discussed before like why would we reduce our service revenue?

00:51:07   That's the most important part of our business is growing so fast it went up 20% blah blah

00:51:10   Why would we give people more iCloud storage for free?

00:51:12   I'm hoping that

00:51:15   this Christ at unity

00:51:18   Makes that topic come up again at Apple say you know we could

00:51:24   We maybe we've passed the limit on the price of our phones

00:51:28   Maybe we need to have a more affordable phone model

00:51:31   Maybe we can keep our prices exactly the way they are but just make the perceived value higher

00:51:35   By you know doing something different the proxy

00:51:39   You know I don't know like everyone has their own pet peeves

00:51:42   They think that you know this now Apple will finally do the thing that I wanted them to do

00:51:45   But they're gonna have to do something and the things they list are not gonna cut it

00:51:50   Maybe it's simple to trade in phones and finance the purchase over time and get help transferring data

00:51:55   None of those things are going to help this situation

00:51:57   So I hope they have much grander plans

00:52:01   Unfortunately Apple's a big ship and takes a long time to turn it so whatever plans they have

00:52:05   We're not going to see the results of for probably a year at this point if at all

00:52:10   But yeah, that's this is

00:52:14   Probably bad news for Apple, but I think good news for us for consumers because it's not like Apple's going out of business

00:52:20   They're doing just fine right making bazillions of dollars everything will be great

00:52:23   But I like to see them sort of on their heels a little bit

00:52:28   Because that's when that's when real change can happen and as anyone who listens to this program knows

00:52:34   We think that some real change is overdue

00:52:38   You covered everything pretty well, and and I think the only thing I will add is

00:52:43   What I what I've missed from Apple in recent years

00:52:46   Besides good laptop keyboards and maybe some maybe some whimsy, but what I need to get a bell for you

00:52:52   It's coming to the point. I need to get a bell for you

00:52:54   It should be like a clack, but it should be a butterfly keyboard clap

00:52:58   Pleasant sound they make anyway

00:53:01   What Apple has really been missing is hustle? I've mentioned this before

00:53:06   It just seems like they're not trying as hard as they used to in certain areas

00:53:12   it seems like they're coasting a lot and

00:53:14   They're relying on the fact that they've been the best for so long in certain markets or that they have customers who will buy

00:53:23   Anything they make like us who will buy anything they make no matter how much they charge for it

00:53:27   We'll buy it all and it just seems like in a lot of areas. They've been coasting for the last few years

00:53:32   And yeah, sure. I'm sure we'll hear from people saying that the team's worked really hard. That's great. Good for you, but

00:53:38   Ultimately, it feels like there's no hustle in certain areas

00:53:42   Like for instance, you know the aforementioned laptops like the laptop line has not been very competitive recently

00:53:50   And I don't mean just about price

00:53:52   I mean the laptop line has not been very competitive recently for like three years in a lot of areas

00:53:58   Compared to competitors laptops like you look at what Microsoft is doing what a lot of the PC makers doing even it sometimes even what?

00:54:05   Google's doing

00:54:06   The laptops and like the PCs and like the things are doing the they're hustling. They're they're really trying hard. They're moving fast

00:54:12   They're making great hardware. And yeah, it isn't always perfect and yeah apples still ahead in certain areas

00:54:16   But like they're trying really hard

00:54:18   You look at what Apple is doing in the laptop line. Like are they trying really hard?

00:54:22   Is this the best they can do? I don't think it is like it doesn't it doesn't feel like that

00:54:26   And if it is there's a problem, you know, this is the best they can do

00:54:30   There's other problems that you should be addressed

00:54:32   But like you look at some products and it just feels like there's not a lot of hustle

00:54:36   Now certain this isn't always true. The iPad is you know clearly

00:54:40   Zooming ahead constantly way ahead of even where it needs to be and there's no one even in sight like the the hardware is doing great

00:54:48   the software on the iPad is

00:54:50   Lacking right the you know, the Mac Mac OS is having a lot of problems recently

00:54:55   We'll see I think this year might have some big changes there. So we'll see what happens there

00:54:58   But like it just seems again Mac OS there's no hustle there at all and there hasn't been for quite a while

00:55:03   iPad OS it seems like there's no hustle there

00:55:06   They're taking their sweet time doing even the smallest improvements to make it

00:55:09   You know more more amenable to to pro work and multitasking and everything else the iPhone I think does well

00:55:15   And and they clearly focus a lot there

00:55:18   I don't think they need too much more hustle in the iPhone area

00:55:21   But it does seem like their other product lines are kind of kind of slow

00:55:26   Again, whether or not they're actually taking their foot off the gas. I don't know. We'll never know

00:55:30   We'll hear we'll hear people will hear reports from people on the inside saying it both ways

00:55:34   We're gonna hear from people saying yeah, you know what ever since you know, some manager took over then they everything's been slow

00:55:40   And you know so and so ruin the company

00:55:43   And we're also gonna hear from people who are gonna be like, you know

00:55:45   My team worked really hard on this or they I knew the people worked really hard

00:55:48   It's they're doing everything they can it's limited resources public

00:55:50   So we don't know what to believe but what it looks like from their customers from our point of view

00:55:55   Looking at what Apple's doing and looking at what their competitors are doing in the meantime

00:55:59   It sure seems like Apple has very little hustle in some key areas that a lot of us care about

00:56:05   So I would love to see

00:56:08   Something light a fire on them like like John said like it is we do tend to have better output from Apple

00:56:14   when they when they have some you know some competition or from or some challenges and

00:56:19   We haven't seen that feeling from them in a lot of these areas in a while. So I'm hoping this is

00:56:26   Something to push in that direction a little bit and I guess we'll see what happens

00:56:30   I wouldn't expect them to turn on a dime and to immediately change everything

00:56:35   but to have them fail once in a while and to have

00:56:39   Something like this happen where they they could egg on their face in a pretty big way

00:56:42   For the financial results of their largest most profitable product by a long shot that that's a pretty big failure

00:56:49   Like I know they're not gonna go out of business or anything but like pride wise

00:56:54   that's a pretty big failure and they haven't had one of those in a long time and I think they've really really needed this because

00:56:59   They've just gotten too complacent and they're not pushing

00:57:03   They're not they don't have their foot on the gas enough and I really want to see that change and I hope this will

00:57:07   Nudge them that direction

00:57:10   See, I wouldn't describe it that way in terms of hustle and effort. Like I think they sound terrible

00:57:15   But it's like actually vaguely true in this but you know the work smarter not harder thing

00:57:19   Like I think they work too hard in

00:57:21   Like they have too much hustle in certain areas. It's kind of like we're talking about the MacBook era that

00:57:25   It's not that they're not trying to make a great product

00:57:29   Like that's that's part of people throwing around that Steve Jobs quote. I think the fact that market you retweeted somebody mentioning it like

00:57:34   That you shouldn't chase profits Steve Jobs something that you know, you shouldn't chase profits

00:57:38   You just try to make the best product you can make and if you make a really good product profits will follow, right?

00:57:42   And everyone's like nods their heads like yeah, I totally agree with that, right?

00:57:45   And everyone and Apple will say it or whatever but the thing that's not said the unspoken

00:57:50   very important assumption in that statement is that

00:57:54   You the creator or that there exists or that you the creator have a way to

00:58:00   Measure the goodness of a product and that is I where I think Apple's falling down like

00:58:05   they seem to have a tremendous amount of hustle into the minute details of

00:58:11   fit and finish and

00:58:15   You know object purity of the things they make but that doesn't actually make a good laptop a good phone a good

00:58:22   Whatever like there. They're so obsessed with certain details and they're

00:58:27   blinded to the fact that

00:58:30   Good product doesn't mean

00:58:32   Amazing tolerances beautiful finish like that's all part of a good product

00:58:36   But there are other parts that make a good product and they're losing sight of those products by putting

00:58:40   too much hustle into having the minimum number of screws and the lowest number of moving parts and

00:58:46   Incredibly small gaps around all the keys in their keyboard and other stuff like that right look at how stable these keys are

00:58:53   They're so stable because we wanted that so badly

00:58:56   I actually think key stability is a valid thing to apply to but like but just so yeah

00:59:01   But at the expense of everything else no, but I'm saying that I think it's I think it's more valid than your thing

00:59:06   But the fewest number of holes in the outside of a biggest simplicity is the ultimate

00:59:10   You know sophistication blah blah blah right?

00:59:12   Tremendous hustle as you would say tremendous effort in areas like that

00:59:16   But not nearly as much effort to thinking about the you know other aspects of the product they think about the other

00:59:24   So it's not like they're ignoring them right it's a balance right and so that's gets back to the statement

00:59:27   We just make great products. It's premised on the idea which Steve when Steve Jobs was around

00:59:32   He just he also just assumed. It's like well

00:59:34   I know what's good right and most of the time he did occasionally didn't he didn't you know the iPod high-five?

00:59:40   Wasn't that great the power mic g4 cube not not that great even though it was super cool, right?

00:59:45   But that's the most important

00:59:47   I thought we'll just concentrate on making great products if you lose sight of

00:59:51   If your opinion of great product is different than your customers opinion of great product

00:59:55   You start to have this kind of disconnect, and I don't think it's because of lack of effort. I think it's because of

01:00:00   Misdirected effort so you've got this whole company of very smart people working really really hard on

01:00:07   Ever so slightly the wrong balance of things and you do that long enough you end up in a situation where you have

01:00:13   products that are

01:00:15   amazing in many regards, but your customers find

01:00:18   vaguely unsatisfying and you're increasing the price because

01:00:22   To make a product as fine and as beautiful as insert current Apple product here

01:00:27   It costs more money to make and is in fact better in exactly the way

01:00:31   the ways that you thought it would be better like it is nicer and more solid and

01:00:37   You know even stuff like has amazing battery life

01:00:39   And you make the CPU like there's many areas where they are excelling and it's worthwhile

01:00:43   But many areas where they are excelling and it is less worthwhile, and so that's I think you know the phones

01:00:49   maybe you just bad luck that they happen to be pressing up the prices on their phones at the same time that a

01:00:56   Market that that's super important to them because it's the only place where they can have any substantial growth takes a downturn

01:01:01   That's the worst time to have $1,200 phones that suddenly become $4,000 phones because of terrorists or whatever right but on the other hand

01:01:08   It's kind of their own fault for abandoning the low end of the of the phone line and saying we're just gonna sell old phones to

01:01:14   fill that gap which is less satisfying to consumers because old phones just feel old because they've been seen before even if you just

01:01:20   Put out a new phone that is no better than the old phones

01:01:23   You know even though they can be but looks and feels different and has a new name like

01:01:28   Just basics like that and we've talked about the laptop line in the Mac. This is not about this is just about the phone

01:01:32   But I continue to think that it's not lack of effort effort lack of hustle. It's a slight misbalance of

01:01:39   The prioritization it's in the end. It's a crisis of taste. It's like how do you you know? How do you tell?

01:01:45   When a product is good. We're just gonna make the best. We're just gonna try to make a good product

01:01:50   You better make sure that what you think is good is what everyone else thinks is good right and that's that was another Steve Jobs

01:01:57   Video someone put up. We just try to make the best price we can and the consumers like them

01:02:00   We succeed if consumers don't we don't it's in the end. It's kind of as simple as that

01:02:05   I mean there's more complexity to it, but if people liked the phones that Apple was putting out

01:02:10   Like as in in their whole not just like oh if I gave you this phone for free would you like it?

01:02:16   But just here's a product. Here's a price. Here's everything about this phone. What do you think of it and what consumers thought it is?

01:02:21   We are not inclined to give you as much money as you thought we were going to give you for the phones that you're offering

01:02:26   And that is the time for Apple to look at what they were offering customers and say what it is about what we're offering

01:02:33   That they don't like did they not like the phones did not like the price

01:02:36   They don't like the combination like these features blah blah blah

01:02:39   The answer is not that they had difficulty transferring the data and the answer is not that they wanted to lay away plan for crying

01:02:44   Out loud obviously they're not going to tell us what they're really gonna do

01:02:46   But it's kind of a shame because things like the 10 are I think are a great new

01:02:54   previously unforeseen balance of features and price

01:02:56   but

01:02:59   Maybe the 10s is not

01:03:01   an unforeseen balance of features and price and is instead an extremely expensive phone that is not that much better than the old phone and maybe

01:03:08   Abandoning the SE and abandoning the low end of the line to just hand me down phones is not a great strategy

01:03:13   I don't know so yeah, I think we're going around circles here, but anyway

01:03:18   I just I just want to say that I don't think it's a lack of effort. I think it's a misdirected effort

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01:05:46   One of the things that I believe we've talked about on the show and made brief rounds through people like us a few years ago

01:05:56   was hey

01:05:58   Retention is gonna be a problem for Apple and we said this and I don't know exactly when but I found a post from Gruber

01:06:06   that that he made about this back in 2013 and

01:06:09   It was interesting to me thinking about you know, I I don't know what it's like to be an Apple employee

01:06:16   But my assumption is that a lot of your compensation

01:06:20   For being an employee is is in the way of stock or stock options or something or stock grants or something like that

01:06:26   so in other words

01:06:28   Maybe you make a hundred thousand dollars a year doing whatever it is you do at Apple

01:06:32   But you might get 50 or 100 or 200 thousand dollars worth of stock related things every year

01:06:37   And so a lot of your compensation is is involved in in Apple stock. Well, I

01:06:43   looked earlier today and the stock was at

01:06:47   232 dollars as recently as October and when I looked earlier today

01:06:52   It was at 157 dollars and by the time this makes it to you

01:06:56   I bet you it's gonna be a lot lower because all this stuff happened after hours that we've been discussing

01:07:01   so

01:07:02   That makes me wonder, you know if Apple stock

01:07:05   has just taken a kind of big dump then what does that mean for talent and

01:07:11   A lot of times from what I can tell from way out here in the East Coast

01:07:16   It seems like when this sort of thing happens a lot of times a lot of people will leave and go to one of the other

01:07:23   Silicon Valley darlings, you know, you'll see not immediately

01:07:26   but you'll see a bit of a quiet exodus to Facebook or maybe Tesla or something like that and

01:07:32   It just got to thinking and I wondered what your guys's take was, you know

01:07:36   Do we think that this that this retention problem is still a thing?

01:07:40   Do we think it's related to the stock price and if their stock really does dive?

01:07:43   Does that create a crisis and that's probably too strong a word?

01:07:48   But but I don't know if a better one a crisis of retention and talent at Apple and then secondarily secondarily

01:07:54   Where does this talent go because Facebook is evil

01:07:58   Tesla seems like it's an awful place to work

01:08:00   Google

01:08:03   hasn't been all that interesting lately at least from what I can tell and I'm sure I'm gonna get a bunch of email about this but I

01:08:10   Can't point to anything that Google's done lately. That's been specifically interesting. So

01:08:14   Where does the talent go? They all just go to startups and hope for the best like where does this all go?

01:08:20   So so Marco, is there a problem here? Do you think and

01:08:24   If so, where's all that where all these people gonna go? I

01:08:28   mean, I I'm not really very well qualified to answer this because I have never

01:08:34   Well, at least not for a very long time sought a job in Silicon Valley. I haven't ever had a job there and

01:08:41   I

01:08:44   Haven't really even had a job for nine years

01:08:49   So so so it's hard I'm not really in the market

01:08:53   So it's hard for me to say like specifically in that market what's going on?

01:08:57   We do we have heard though that you know for multiple multiple people and multiple occasions. We have heard that yes indeed

01:09:04   You know many Silicon Valley companies Apple included do base a lot of their competition on stock options

01:09:10   and so if you're working there and

01:09:12   I've heard on a number of occasions. I don't I hope not insulting anybody here. I've heard that

01:09:18   Apple it is is kind of cheap with the salaries like relative to the

01:09:22   Competition like that. They don't have like the highest salaries in the valley which itself I think is dumb because

01:09:29   I've heard of a lot of great people

01:09:31   very talented people who choose not to work at Apple for reasons including that and

01:09:36   That's stupid. Like that's that's an easy problem to fix. They have the money to fix it

01:09:41   They have plenty of the money to fix it that that should not be a reason why somebody choose not to work at Apple

01:09:47   It assuming that's true because I have heard that on a number of occasions

01:09:51   Then the stock really is a substantial part of people's compensation, you know, it's one thing, you know

01:09:58   A lot of jobs will offer some degree of stock options

01:10:01   But it you know, unless it's like an early-stakes startup. Those are not going to be worth like a fortune, you know

01:10:06   They might be they might be like a nice bonus and that's that's that's the much more common scenario

01:10:10   And when you have a scenario like that, you know

01:10:12   You are tied to the stock price for retention on some level

01:10:17   Like a dip like this would hurt a little bit and some people might quit but it wouldn't be like a huge problem for you

01:10:23   Whereas if you're relying on the stock options as a substantial part of the compensation this becomes a larger problem

01:10:31   So by by making it a larger part of the compensation you are basically taking more risk with your employees you you are

01:10:38   putting more of your personnel problem onto your stock price then you necessarily need to and

01:10:46   That I don't think is a wise move for a company like Apple where?

01:10:51   You know even when Apple grows like I think most of the large growth is behind them not in front of them

01:10:57   Right, like they went through this this awesome growth period. I think that's mostly done

01:11:00   I think everyone including the stock market seems to be agreeing with that now

01:11:03   So the potential upside for them like the money they could save by giving things a stock options instead of more salaries to people

01:11:11   I think most of that upside is behind them and now they're just left with all those risk

01:11:16   So I hope that what they do and maybe what they have been doing. I'm not sure I

01:11:22   Hope they are making the stock options less of a port less of a part of people's compensation and

01:11:29   Making up for that with higher salaries. That's what I hope

01:11:32   But I have pretty much no information on that subject. So I really can't say what they actually are doing

01:11:38   And if you are an Apple employee Marco and you decide to leave

01:11:44   Where are you going again? I've never worked at any of these companies before I

01:11:48   Have visited the campuses of a few of them the biggest contrast for me was visiting Apple and then visiting Facebook

01:11:55   I cannot possibly see how somebody who works at one of those places could go to the other one. I

01:12:02   Just don't see it. They're so insanely different in

01:12:05   You know atmosphere

01:12:08   Environment the types of people you have the types of you know work that you're doing

01:12:13   Whether you're doing good things for the world or whether you're being the worst company in the universe

01:12:16   like there's a pretty huge difference between these two companies, so

01:12:19   To me it was a no-contest. I was in these two places and I'm like, well clearly like Apple

01:12:25   This is where the adults work like Facebook like all the teenagers can go there. That's great. This is here at Apple

01:12:30   This is where the adults get real work done. That's that was the clear feeling between the two places

01:12:34   When you add in places like Google, you know, I don't know. I've never visited Google

01:12:39   Well, I visited the New York office, which is hilarious, but I don't think that that would really count

01:12:43   I don't know how much they're working for the same people in a lot of areas now

01:12:48   There are some areas where they are very competitive with the companies where Apple has had problems getting and retaining talent

01:12:54   One of the big areas there is services and and especially in the area of you know, machine learning

01:12:59   Siri and related technologies big data problems

01:13:03   You know things like the iCloud infrastructure kind of stuff like Apple has historically had a lot of problems getting

01:13:09   Retaining talent there and have lost a lot of people to places like Google because they they do more like AI research type stuff

01:13:15   That is that is higher prioritizing the company. So Apple does have problems there, but I don't think those usually money related necessarily

01:13:22   Those tend to be more like people who want a company that prioritizes their area of expertise higher than Apple does

01:13:29   So I don't I wouldn't expect that to affect that kind of hiring

01:13:34   so ultimately

01:13:36   Again, I am NOT anywhere near an expert on this, but I think

01:13:40   Apple can avoid these problems if they make stock options less a part of people salaries and make up for it with

01:13:48   actual money in the salaries

01:13:50   So I know this question was about retention

01:13:52   But in some respects this is actually

01:13:56   Good for Apple's ability to hire

01:14:00   you know like

01:14:02   Margaret said Apple has long since passed the part where like you're gonna get options

01:14:07   You're gonna get rich off of them because they had their big growth period and now they're the biggest company in the world

01:14:11   Probably the amount of growth that they're gonna have in the future is not gonna be as great as it has been in the past

01:14:17   So you're no one is getting hired. I'm bored to say and guess what?

01:14:20   we're gonna give you some options and

01:14:23   In a few years, they're gonna be worth so much more than they are now

01:14:27   Never mind that I don't know what the mix of options and RS use and all those stuff is like they could just give you them

01:14:33   Give you shares and say well the shares are worth this much money. So we're just giving you money

01:14:36   It's another form of giving you money, right that works fine as in

01:14:39   You know you can try that off a salary

01:14:42   But the idea that you get hired and there's a big upside for you because whatever the stock price is now in a few years

01:14:47   It'll be even higher. Well if they take a massive

01:14:49   Disproportionate somewhat irrational hit to their stock prices. They probably are sure to do

01:14:54   And it's sustained because let's say Apple makes some changes to its business

01:15:01   For the long term success, but in the short term just make Wall Street angry about them

01:15:05   Not making as much money or profit as they did before

01:15:07   That actually makes it easier for Apple to hire because Apple can say we are massively undervalued now when you come on board

01:15:15   We're gonna give you options and no they're not gonna go up by 3,000%

01:15:18   But it's conceivable they could go up by 50 or 75%

01:15:21   So whereas before when their stock price was 232 the highest it's ever been or whatever

01:15:26   You hire someone on and say and guess what next year our stock price would probably be

01:15:30   Yeah, best case like 232 again 230

01:15:33   like it's not there's not a big growth story to be told there, but if they're down in the dumps and if they have a a

01:15:40   reasonable story or if people think

01:15:43   Like that Apple is undervalued that it's too low that this company makes so much money and has so much success so much brand value

01:15:51   Their stock price should not be this low

01:15:53   There's people who thought they were too low to 32 because their price dairies ratio is always ridiculous as compared to the some of their

01:15:58   competitors, right

01:15:59   But taking a huge hit because like this is the first bad news and you know multiple decades or whatever

01:16:04   Is it time that it makes them easier to hire now retention if you have a bunch of options and you're like you can exercise

01:16:11   These options at $200 and now the stock price is 140 you feel crappy, right?

01:16:15   But I have no idea

01:16:16   What Apple's been doing in terms of giving people options versus giving people RS use or whatever because they if they give people shares

01:16:22   Things that are just immediately redeemable for shares and not options and you have those shares

01:16:27   You're sad because your shares went down. But if you're in it for the long haul you're like well

01:16:30   We'll be back. We'll be back above 200 in a couple years. You're not too bummed

01:16:34   So I don't think it's gonna hurt

01:16:35   Well, and we're hearing some we're hearing from people in the chat and stuff that Apple does just do ours using that kind of thing

01:16:40   Not actual straight options and that's fine. I think I think all this actually applies regardless

01:16:44   Basically, you are tying your you're tying a substantial part of your employees compensation to the stock price the company that you know

01:16:52   However, you do it that is the result but it's not but options are tying your compensation to the growth of the stock price

01:16:59   Whereas RS use you're just giving them instead of giving them money you're giving this over the other money that is variable

01:17:04   But it's like it's not gonna collapse to zero right?

01:17:06   So the variability of the stock price even if it goes down a little bit, okay

01:17:09   So we didn't actually give you as much money as you thought we did

01:17:11   But if you hang in there a little bit

01:17:12   It'll go up and it's not going to drop to 1% of what we gave you whereas options

01:17:16   All you care about is the growth of the company and if you have anything less than you know

01:17:23   If you have 0% growth, we've gave you nothing you have one person like it's all about growth

01:17:27   So options are much more applicable to a company on on the you know

01:17:30   Trajectory the big growth trajectory like that's where you get really rich where they give you what they thought was a small amount

01:17:35   But the stock price quintuples and now you've got way more than you thought you did. So

01:17:39   Yeah, I don't know what their compensation structure is like and you know Apple like reportedly Tesla

01:17:45   You know similar companies like you should just be glad to even work here because we have high prestige and they do there is lots

01:17:50   Of prestige working for Apple. There is lots of prestige working for Tesla or whatever, you know company that has a good reputation

01:17:56   And it's generally, you know

01:17:57   When you when you say you work there people are impressed prestige is part of your compensation package

01:18:01   Just like this stupid falcon wing doors are part of the the futuristic compensation package you get when you buy a Tesla

01:18:08   And to the degree that it becomes less impressive to work for Apple they have to adjust for that but I think

01:18:19   In the end I think the upside of being able to hire more based on being massively undervalued probably offsets any

01:18:25   People who are sad because their RS use are you know that their shares are worth less now than they were because I think

01:18:32   There's a Marcos point about Apple being a company for adults

01:18:35   Most people who are at Apple I imagine are in it for the long haul

01:18:41   It's not that much of a revolving door company as much as we know so many people who left Apple and come back

01:18:46   They do it in waves of multiple years. It's not like they work there for three months then leave then come back

01:18:50   Then leave then come back, you know, it's like well

01:18:51   I worked Apple for eight years then I left and did some other thing for four years

01:18:55   and I went back to Apple for eight more years like it's I

01:18:57   think

01:19:00   People already don't like it that the price went down, but I think that Apple has long since stopped being a company where

01:19:05   Employees are obsessing over the stock price. I hope so anyway

01:19:10   one of their angle that I that I hadn't consider until you just said that you know, the whole dropping door thing is

01:19:15   that a lot of the people who left Apple like over the last decade and you know

01:19:21   A lot of them came back or whatever else a lot of that was because we had this booming app

01:19:25   Industry outside of Apple and when you work for Apple, you can't have apps on the side

01:19:29   Like they don't allow side projects really and so there was this whole world of the App Store

01:19:35   Booming on the outside and all these people in Apple were like, hey I can make apps

01:19:40   I know all these frameworks and everything really well and I know exactly what would make a good app and I can

01:19:46   so maybe I should strike out on my own and see if I can make it as an app maker and many of them did for

01:19:52   a while and

01:19:53   Then over the last few years as the app market has cooled and become much more challenging to succeed in

01:20:00   Many people have actually left that world and gone either to Apple or gone back to Apple who you know who were there before

01:20:08   And that was I mean, this is again

01:20:11   This is anec data. But this I know a lot of people and I heard about a lot more who had a similar pattern to

01:20:16   that and so

01:20:18   Maybe you know if Apple's stock price hit is the result of an overall cooling market out there that you know

01:20:25   That we're in for kind of some, you know belt tightening all around and and the entire, you know

01:20:31   financial market kind of cooling down a little bit that actually might be good for Apple's retention because a lot of people might

01:20:37   retreat back into the safety of working there and and might and people are would be less tempted to leave who are already there because

01:20:44   What's going on outside of Apple is less tempting than it is during like a big boom time

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01:22:54   Josh A. writes on the most recent episode of Reconcileable Differences Merlin made passing reference to the seminal

01:23:00   conversation on video game controllers pinching the harmonica

01:23:03   Which is episode 49 of hypercritical having just received a Nintendo switch

01:23:06   I was wondering if John could or had already discussed his opinions on the various permutations of controllers for it

01:23:12   I had heard several opinions that the pro controller is the quote best controller ever made quote, which seems like a bold statement

01:23:17   Although says Josh I really do like it John. What do you think?

01:23:22   Procontroller is not the best controller ever made but to address the controller-ness of the switch

01:23:27   so the switch is a

01:23:31   Television console that's also also a portable console portable consoles historically and probably

01:23:38   Permanently are

01:23:41   In ergonomic compromise because the whole point is they have to be portable

01:23:44   You can't you don't want them to be too big or and also you don't want them to be too like

01:23:49   Unwieldy like in difficult to shove into a bag or a case or something. So they tend to be flat

01:23:55   All right, and they tend to be small

01:23:58   and also in

01:24:01   Pretty much all the ones I've seen you are holding the entire device up while you use it

01:24:06   So not only are you gripping a controller, but you are also

01:24:09   holding a loft the thing the entire time you play it so they can't be too heavy and

01:24:16   They you have very limited options and how you work the thing

01:24:20   The switch is very flat

01:24:23   The switch is pretty heavy because it's got a really big screen

01:24:26   But the switch has a mode where you can play it where you don't have to hold the device

01:24:31   You can take the little what are they called the joy cons?

01:24:33   You can take them off the side and put the little screen on a little kickstand and now you're not holding the screen

01:24:38   You're just holding the little controllers, but those little controllers were things that fit on the side of the flat portable device

01:24:43   And so they're very flat and they're very small

01:24:46   And they're not as small as you know

01:24:49   The Game Boy micro or whatever like Game Boy Advance micro. I think that's the smallest one they ever made

01:24:55   But they're still small. And so the main problem with the Nintendo switch

01:24:59   by itself with no other accessories just with the joy cons is

01:25:03   Everything about them is small. The joysticks are small. The buttons are small. The shoulder buttons are small

01:25:08   The controllers themselves are small and whether you keep them on the thing and have to hold up the entire device by the small

01:25:13   Things or take them off and put the thing on a kickstand

01:25:15   They're just small probably good for a little kid hands not good for adult hands

01:25:21   ergonomically for the most part the joy cons are

01:25:25   Very very bad if you have large hands, they're not

01:25:30   Impossible to use the quality of the controls on them is good. The buttons are good

01:25:35   The joystick is good

01:25:36   But there's no getting around the fact that they're really small the fact that many games expect you to use them as d-pads

01:25:41   makes them even worse because

01:25:43   Things are on them are not positioned correctly for d-pads

01:25:46   They they have to have strike this compromise between being sensible to use vertically and also when you turn them sideways

01:25:51   You can kind of squint and see it's kind of like a d-pad but on a d-pad

01:25:55   You wouldn't put the buttons that close to the joystick

01:25:57   The buttons are practically in the middle on one of the joy cons and the quote unquote shoulder buttons are very awkward to hit

01:26:03   So they have those little attachments to make them slightly less awkward to hit but those attachments make you

01:26:07   Feel like you're hitting a button that hits a button because that's exactly what you're doing and it is not a good feeling

01:26:11   I find using the joy con in a d-pad mode or in a like horizontal mode

01:26:17   to be

01:26:19   Basically painful. I mean I have RSI and everything right but for even just a regular people it's awkward and it is unresponsive

01:26:25   The shoulder buttons are not as responsive and if you take off that the top thing and just put the shoulder buttons directly

01:26:30   They're like these little recess things

01:26:32   Bottom line the joy cons are not good controllers. They're okay for what they do. It's amazing

01:26:38   They can be used in so many different ways, but they're not good

01:26:41   So thumbs down for the switch ergonomically speaking as a controller

01:26:46   The pro controller on the other hand is where you do have room to make a thing

01:26:49   That is not flat that it can be a reasonable size

01:26:52   Pro controller is really nice

01:26:55   The fact that it has four buttons that are exactly the same size in a perfect

01:26:59   fully uniform diamond pattern because that's

01:27:02   Yeah, I don't know geometrically pleasing that's not great. I missed the octagonal surround that lets you know

01:27:08   What the cardinal directions in the 45s bar?

01:27:10   But I can see the case for omitting it

01:27:13   For things like first-person shooters where people like to have more freeform control than that

01:27:17   Even though it's not as good for like a platform game or whatever. So the pro controller is it's very it is very good controller

01:27:23   I don't think it's as good as the GameCube controller

01:27:25   But it is a high quality controller and it is miles better than trying to use

01:27:30   The joy cons now and even though I've complained about the switch ergonomically bottom line is if you want to use something portable

01:27:35   Like as a portable gaming console and you don't have like a table to put the thing up on it

01:27:39   You have to hold the entire device in your hand if you're holding entire device in your hand

01:27:42   It gets the job done. Like it is I

01:27:46   Don't see how it could be better without

01:27:48   fundamentally changing

01:27:50   The switch because it is flat and it is this tall and I wouldn't want it to be any taller and I wouldn't want it

01:27:55   To be any less flat than it is like it's already pushing up against that limit with the big thick shoulder pad. So

01:28:00   It's an understandable compromise, but I don't like using it that way and they're not good controllers

01:28:07   So that probably went on too long. I probably got any longer, but I'm cutting myself short

01:28:11   You know we when we were together John we played some Mario Kart and I could not agree with you more that using the joy cons

01:28:20   in horizontal mode is painful because the little I

01:28:25   Don't know bulges that that that are kind of used to help you grip them when they're in the normal mode attached to the switch

01:28:32   those bulges end up being

01:28:34   Physically uncomfortable because you're bracing the joy con against that bulge which is in jamming into one of your fingers

01:28:40   It's just not fun now that being said, I mean, it's still an amazing device and I do love my switch

01:28:45   Even though I don't use it that terribly often and I think that I feel like I understand the compromises they made and they all

01:28:51   Made sense, but yes, but the joy cons

01:28:53   But I don't mind when they're you know being used in their regular mode and vertical mode and portrait mode if you will but in landscape

01:28:59   Oh, it's it's rough

01:29:01   Marco anything to add on that not really I

01:29:05   Hate the joy cons like you guys I I never want to use them which you know, I never use the switch

01:29:12   Portably because I don't like the screen. It's it's both too small and also not very not a very nice screen

01:29:20   And I really really hate the feel of the joy cons. So like I'm the only person in the world who wants like a switch

01:29:25   Plus like a switch max like I want a thicker larger switch that like

01:29:32   You know just has it basically has the the grip of a pro controller which should of course make it

01:29:38   Massive like nobody else except me would actually want such a thing and and while they're there they can make the screen really big because we're

01:29:44   Already making something that's basically the size of a Sega Genesis. Yeah, I find the switch

01:29:48   Ergonomics to be awful unless you are using a pro controller and a TV in which case I love it

01:29:54   So I'm not as much of a controller snob as John. I don't know if anybody in the world is but

01:30:00   That's why we love him

01:30:02   But I have had no problems with the pro controller really except for the one small problem that there is no way to turn it off

01:30:09   And so if you for instance if you need to transport pro controllers in a bag

01:30:15   Every time a button is nudged it will power itself on and try to connect to the switch

01:30:20   So it is or if you're just like if you are moving pro controllers around say like in a cabinet

01:30:27   They're all gonna turn on and try to connect and try to activate and everything

01:30:30   It's kind of annoying to not have a power switch on it. Other than that. That is my only complaint other than that

01:30:34   It's totally great. I love it. I love that charges by USBC. I love you know the feel of it

01:30:39   I have no complaints about any of the buttons or pads or sticks. So it's pretty good

01:30:44   I just want a power switch to turn it off. I

01:30:46   Agree wholeheartedly with what you said Marco

01:30:50   And Kerr Oberoi writes. Hey these new air pads should air pod should still be coming at some point or another

01:30:57   Will they use USB C or lightning or any chance for the new air pods to just have chi charging?

01:31:03   Standard and related when do you think if ever the iPhone makes leap to USB C?

01:31:08   For me, I would be very surprised to see the iPhone or air pods move to USB C anytime soon

01:31:15   That being said as I collect more and more devices including the switch and the pro controllers as Marco just mentioned including my

01:31:24   newest GoPro

01:31:26   Including my iPad my MacBook all of those things are on USB C

01:31:30   And I'm kind of really liking having the one USB C connector for everything

01:31:36   So I am ready for my new USB C overlords except

01:31:40   I just don't think they're ready for me yet

01:31:42   But John when do you think when do you think we're going to USB C if ever on air pods or phones?

01:31:47   Airpods are weird because the the only pattern that can be discerned with Apple's use of USB C

01:31:53   Thus far has been that they're going from big devices down the scale

01:31:57   So the smallest device that has USB C not counting the Apple TV

01:32:02   You know full-fledged device with screen is the the iPads like and they only recently on the super duper, you know pro ones, right?

01:32:08   So would they skip over all the middle things and go to like one of their smallest things the tiny little air pod case

01:32:14   There's no reason the air pods have to be have to have lightning or USB C like the case has plenty of room for both

01:32:21   There's no size considerations

01:32:23   USB C chargers are all over Apple's

01:32:26   Products but so are lightning things are all over their most popular product phones

01:32:31   There's not you know, the the arguments for the phone for the thinness and then and the screen and everything

01:32:36   Like I'm having trouble thinking

01:32:38   I mean, I'm gonna say no just because like inertia and assuming the air pods were designed a long time ago

01:32:44   Even though they have you know, the new air pods. They aren't even released yet

01:32:46   I'm assuming it's just gonna be lighting because the existing ones are lightning and I'm and these ones are probably designed

01:32:50   Shortly after the existing ones with just the addition of the the wireless charging

01:32:55   But there's no reason why they couldn't have USB C

01:32:59   So I think actually surprisingly air pods are a candidate to move to USB C before the phone

01:33:05   There's lots of reasons to stick with lightning on their most popular product both

01:33:10   You know the thinnest reasons and also because don't rock the boat like it's such a popular product

01:33:14   You don't want to do anything to perturb customers who have tons of lightning cables all around

01:33:17   But if I had to make a prediction the next set of air pods that come out

01:33:21   Will have a port of them that port will be lightning

01:33:24   Regardless of their wireless charging situation and the phone I think we've had whole shows where we talked about that

01:33:29   But I don't expect the next phone to be USB C

01:33:31   The air pods case should always have the same port that the iPhone has because you're gonna want to charge your air pods

01:33:39   when you have your phone with you sometimes and you're gonna like if you if the air pods are

01:33:45   USB C and the phone is lightning you could be out somewhere using your phone like on a plane or something and not have a USB C

01:33:51   Charger available to you or easily reached and then you know

01:33:56   You wouldn't you would have to have two different chargers if you traveled with an iPhone and air pods. That's ridiculous

01:34:02   You know, we already have enough different charges. We don't need a reason there. So I think the for a you know

01:34:07   Wherever possible the air pods should charge the same way the phone does

01:34:11   That being said I think both should move to USB C

01:34:15   I would love to see that because we already have so much of the rest of the world moving to it now

01:34:20   Since I you know, I'm I'm pushing pretty hard into into USB C for my travel setup

01:34:25   Especially because it's just so nice to have fewer cables and fewer types of connectors and everything

01:34:31   Everyone wants that right everyone everybody wants like, you know

01:34:33   The one cable that can do it all the one charge with the one battery whatever else and I have all that with USB C now

01:34:38   so now devices I have that are micro USB or even lightning are

01:34:43   Weird to me those are like oh I need to get the special cable out to charge my lightning things

01:34:49   You know, like that's it feels it feels bad. It feels like the past and it feels like, you know unnecessary friction

01:34:54   so the more things that can move to USB C the better and

01:34:58   I just I hope we someday can reach the all USB C future before like USB D comes out and we have to change it

01:35:05   All again, I just want I just want like two years where it's stable and where everything supports USB C

01:35:10   and I think the

01:35:12   The main question I have about it about whether Apple would actually do it or not

01:35:17   It's not about like MFI licensing of lightning connectors or anything

01:35:20   Like I don't I'm sure that makes them a lot of money

01:35:22   But I'm sure it pales in comparison to like, you know

01:35:24   Uh, like a two percent dip in iPhone sales for instance

01:35:28   Like I don't I'm sure like it's not enough money for them to like make major product decisions around it

01:35:32   I I am a little concerned like the

01:35:35   The reason the USB C port can fit on the iPad and the iPad is way thinner than the iPhone

01:35:41   So it isn't an issue of thickness at the case edge

01:35:44   but there is an issue of like how thick can the device be and have a screen that goes above a

01:35:52   USB C port because on the iPad it doesn't on an iPad the USB C port is basically the depth inside the case of

01:36:00   The screen bezel, so I don't think there's any point in there or at least not like, you know

01:36:05   A major point where the screen is actually going over the USB C ports like internal volume on the phone

01:36:11   The margins are a lot narrower and so I don't there isn't enough room on a phone to have a USB C port

01:36:18   that the screen doesn't at least partially go over top of

01:36:22   So I'm a little concerned that maybe that might preclude it

01:36:26   I mean, I'm sure you can make the phone, you know, there is some thickness for which that would work

01:36:30   I don't know if Apple's willing to ship a phone with that thick

01:36:33   but I do I do really want this product like I really want a

01:36:38   You know an iPhone

01:36:40   Y and YS and YS max that has

01:36:44   The the industrial design of the new iPad basically, but you know

01:36:49   But yeah, it would probably still have like it would be like a hybrid like it would still have a notch

01:36:52   It would still have like the thinner iPhone margins of the 10 series

01:36:56   But would be you know, the straight sides and USB C. I would love this product. This is like my dream iPhone

01:37:02   I don't know if they're actually able to make that or if they're planning on making that that would be nice

01:37:06   but

01:37:08   That's what I hope and if they did that then I would expect an AirPods update that would also have USB C because again

01:37:13   It just makes sense for AirPods and iPhone to have the same charging plug no matter what it is

01:37:18   I don't think AirPods would go Qi only because I don't think a Qi coil can fit on the back of AirPods and I don't

01:37:24   See them making the case

01:37:26   Significantly larger just for that reason

01:37:28   So there goes that yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with the

01:37:33   Point about wanting to charge with the same cable that charges the phone. I think you're absolutely right

01:37:38   And so I think these will move in lockstep. Oh god. I just thought they would probably make us pronounce why 11

01:37:43   God, I hope not that would be the iPhone 11. It's spelled iPhone Y. It's YS, but it's 11s

01:37:49   It's the iPhone is why it's not the Roman numeral for 11, you know, so but that wouldn't stop Apple's marketing department

01:37:55   Yeah, all right. No one to no and end endo nada, which I think is translated to I do not understand anything

01:38:03   Rights in Brazil Volkswagen's launching a small hatchback featuring beats audio an example of quote-unquote Apple selling parts for car manufacturers

01:38:10   What's in the steel for Apple? I think money obviously. I don't read too much into this to me

01:38:17   This is the beats unit doing the sort of thing that you would expect beats to do if they were still independent

01:38:22   So I don't personally see this as that big a deal

01:38:26   I find it slightly interesting that it's happening in Brazil uniquely

01:38:30   Apparently this is in the Novo polo Volkswagen or that I should say the Volkswagen Novo polo

01:38:36   But yeah, I don't read that much into this John am I crazy or is this not a big deal?

01:38:41   I don't even know if there are any beats hardware

01:38:46   It's probably just like you know, who knows who actually makes the audio system and I think it's got the word beats on it

01:38:52   But I doubt there's any actual

01:38:56   Apple engineering that goes into this so it's just yet another case of random branding of

01:39:02   Semi-premium options in cars and you know beats is weird because it's one of those out companies that Apple acquired

01:39:08   But they get got to keep its own brand

01:39:10   but the beats brand is

01:39:13   Not on my personal radar for much of anything

01:39:16   So I have no idea how popular they are around the world

01:39:20   Maybe they're big in Brazil or maybe this is just yet another one of those weird card options that comes and goes I don't

01:39:26   know

01:39:27   Yeah, I mean it's it's pretty common in the world of audio brands for

01:39:33   Brands that have like a lot of consumer recognition like beats or like Bose or Harman Kardon to license their name

01:39:41   To put on to some other thing cars computers

01:39:45   Fridges who knows but like it like I think actually was beat her for a while HP laptops would advertise

01:39:51   They had some brand names audio in them. I think it was actually beats. This is before Apple bought them

01:39:56   but like this there's a long history of companies doing stuff like this and it's almost always like a really

01:40:02   Shallow marketing deal like they're like

01:40:05   Maybe they have like an EQ that boosts the bass all the time and gives it like the beat

01:40:10   Signature sound and maybe beats had to go approve the car and make sure it sounds like beats or something

01:40:16   But like that's again, this is a very common thing in the audio marketing world and it's it's not really anything

01:40:23   Noteworthy. Yep agreed. Anyway, thanks to our sponsors this week hover Eero and Linode and we will talk to you next week

01:40:30   Now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental

01:40:40   Accidental

01:40:43   John did any research Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental

01:40:51   Was accidental

01:40:53   And you can find the show notes at ATP

01:40:57   FM and if you're into Twitter

01:41:01   You can follow them at

01:41:04   Cas EYL

01:41:07   ISS so that's Casey lists and a RC o a RM

01:41:12   anti Marco Arman

01:41:15   SIR AC

01:41:18   USA, Syracuse

01:41:20   It's accidental

01:41:22   I

01:41:33   Started using homekit for the first time, you know, it's funny you bring that up me too

01:41:38   Did I already talk about this on the show? I don't think I did

01:41:40   I don't think but uh, but we have a single we most switch that are not switch. I keep calling to switch

01:41:46   It's a pillow you mentioned an analog. That's where that's what it was. Okay. Yeah

01:41:49   I actually want to get one of those I keep bookmarking links when people say oh you should get this one

01:41:53   But then someone says oh the the we mo plug that everyone recommends only works on 2.4 gigahertz wireless and has some problems

01:42:00   So if you find one, that's good. Let me know cuz I got some plugs. I want to try out

01:42:03   I have like six of those things. They're great

01:42:06   I mean the we mo app is hilarious garbage

01:42:08   But they all are like all the apps for smart home things are hilarious garbage

01:42:12   the good thing is that you know, you don't really need to use the app beyond setup like you configure it and then

01:42:17   You control it either via homekit or via Amazon Alexa or via, you know

01:42:22   Automation tools or and you can you control it through both?

01:42:26   Yeah, you can actually yeah the same if the older generation you can't or you need like a bridge and I decided like a bridge

01:42:34   costs like 40 bucks that you can make like you can make all the old ones do home kit, but

01:42:39   Throughout the like Black Friday season. I scored a few deals where I got them for like 15 bucks each

01:42:44   So I guess replace all the old outlets with new it was like it was like $15 or more to just get all new ones

01:42:48   I'm like, alright, I'll just do that not need the stupid bridge forever. Yeah, so what you want is like the white rectangle ones

01:42:53   Those we mo outlets. Those are the ones that you want not the older

01:42:57   Are you in the slack where somebody said to one more gigahertz only and doesn't work well with multi

01:43:02   Node systems like a euro. Yes, but I haven't had that problem personally. I mean I have a multi node system

01:43:10   So one thing I do

01:43:12   So my system it's ubiquitous if it is an era but I have it set up so that I have a smart home devices

01:43:18   Network that only broadcasts from one of the APS

01:43:22   Interesting and this is admittedly an you know overwrought solution that might not be necessary

01:43:27   But I I had some issues in the past that I don't know would still be issues today that were fixed by doing that

01:43:34   And so I set them all up on that. It's only a 2.4 gigahertz network

01:43:37   So I avoid that problem too and all the smart home things are on that

01:43:41   And it's not like, you know, it's not like super like subnet it off or anything

01:43:44   It's not like a fancy separation from the main network

01:43:46   It's just like a second SSID being broadcast by the wireless access point

01:43:50   That only that they connect to to basically control and limit that to avoid problems

01:43:55   but these are indeed then controllable via the you know, the Alexa cylinder and also by home kit and

01:44:02   And and also you can set up automation rules in either home kit and or the we mo app

01:44:10   So like, you know, if you don't want to deal with certain things in home get whatever you can do it in the wemo app

01:44:15   You can set up rules and you know

01:44:16   It even has some random some like limited intelligence about things like sunset and sunrise stuff like that

01:44:21   so it's been fine I've used I've used these switches for years and

01:44:24   They've been totally fine. We keep buying more whenever we have a need like it's nice like for Christmas

01:44:31   We put our Christmas tree on one of these and we could say hey cylinder turn on Christmas and it turn on the Christmas tree

01:44:36   It's you know, just fun stuff like that

01:44:38   It's nice at the end of the night to say turn off everything and have everything turn off, you know, and you go upstairs

01:44:42   But yeah, it's been fine. And so anyway, so I did want to talk briefly about home kit

01:44:47   not enough to make it a full topic, but basically I

01:44:50   have finally set up home kit

01:44:52   I like I finally did it right where actually like move things out of default room and gave them real names and

01:44:58   And set up a few scenes so I could ask Siri

01:45:02   You know turn on bedroom lights or good night and have it shut everything off and it's not bad

01:45:07   I gotta say it's from the home pod. It is the fastest thing the home pod can do, you know

01:45:13   I complain last week that Siri just too slow on the home pod like it takes forever to respond to things like start a timer

01:45:18   And so long that you're you don't you think maybe didn't hear you and you start to say it again then it says, okay

01:45:23   Here's your timer, you know, but home kit stuff is way faster

01:45:26   I don't know if it's doing it locally or what but it's way faster

01:45:29   And it's also nice to be able to also

01:45:31   You know take my phone in my pocket just hold the button down and say, you know

01:45:35   Turn on outside lights and have my outside lights go on and stuff like that. So it's nice having it be in multiple places

01:45:40   There are a few things about home kit that are a little bit weird that I'm not used to

01:45:45   It doesn't appear to be possible to to like

01:45:49   Create groups that span multiple rooms and have divide and have things in them that are in multiple groups

01:45:55   You like I guess scenes or what I'm supposed to use for that. But like if I want to create a group called

01:46:01   Everything I need two scenes one to turn them on one turn them off, I guess I'm still learning all this stuff

01:46:06   So I could be wrong but there are certain things about it that are like a little bit odd and like with some of the restrictions

01:46:11   But the scenes are pretty nice. They're pretty powerful there

01:46:15   it's nice to be able to set like

01:46:18   different colors on the hue bulbs and different brightness levels and

01:46:21   Have something that can turn certain things on but turn certain things off as part of the scene

01:46:26   So, you know there are you know powers of it that the other systems don't have or there aren't that aren't as easy in the other

01:46:32   Systems the other part the only problem I have with it for the most part is

01:46:35   That certain things like Siri tries to be too smart about and I can't get them to work

01:46:41   So for like two or three years we've had

01:46:44   Two lamps with smart outlets in our living room and we've called those to the Alexa cylinder

01:46:50   We've called those lamps so we can say hey cylinder turn on lamps

01:46:54   I cannot get the home kit to respond to that same command in the same way

01:47:00   I think Siri is trying to take over lamps and it turns on all the things that knows about that are lights and

01:47:06   That's not what I want. You just have to speak it in quotes. So it knows it's not a keyword

01:47:10   So yeah, like there's there's some things like that where I'm like

01:47:15   I'm gonna have to like change the name of some things to make to make Siri, you know

01:47:18   Less smart about it. So it does what I actually wanted to do

01:47:22   And I still as nice as it is to have Siri

01:47:25   So quickly responding to things and as nice as it is to have the microphone that's always in my pocket that I can always

01:47:33   Just pick up and use anywhere in the house and to have the wonderful

01:47:36   Pickups of the home pod like it's wonderful long-range pickup for that. Those are all really really nice

01:47:41   but you know Siri is still kind of like my

01:47:45   kind of dim

01:47:48   Assistant from California who talks too much

01:47:51   It's just kind of annoying sometimes like it gives such long responses to things

01:47:56   That I don't want at all

01:47:58   Like if you tell your cylinder from Amazon to turn off something it says

01:48:03   Okay, or you can even configure to have the little short like to do kind of sound that's it

01:48:07   All right, but Siri it's like, okay. I've turned off all those things for you. Have a good night and happy new year

01:48:13   Hey while you're upstairs, you want me to you know, maybe order some pizza for you or you know, hey, you know

01:48:18   How's you enjoying the weather up there? Is it nice? Yeah, I hope you have a good day

01:48:21   It's like oh my god, please stop talking. But thank you. You did what I wanted. Thank you. That's enough

01:48:27   You aren't a real human. I don't want to have a conversation with you. You don't need to be that polite to me

01:48:30   I would just want you to say okay, that's it done. That's it

01:48:34   so all the extra like, you know cuteness and commentary I could really do without and

01:48:38   If Apple insists on having it in there, I really wish there was just a setting to turn it off. But

01:48:43   Otherwise, I'm actually enjoying home kit. I

01:48:47   I'm trying to use it more to kind of get myself in that world

01:48:50   I'm like the rest of my family still uses the Amazon cylinder for everything

01:48:54   But I'm trying to use the home pod and Siri and home kit exclusively and it's not incredibly easy at times

01:49:02   But for the most part I'm good

01:49:04   I'm getting into it and I finally have an appreciation for this

01:49:06   System that I think like we've heard from our friends for a while that home kit has finally gotten good in recent years

01:49:13   And I think that's I think that's true. I think I think home kids finally arrived. It's finally good

01:49:17   I just got an Amazon cylinder by the way, so now I've got all the systems achievement unlocked

01:49:22   What was the impetus for that? It was a Yankee swap. That's what I got in the Yankee swap at work

01:49:26   Was it a full-blown cylinder or the dot? No, just the dot

01:49:30   It's a Yankee swap anybody expect but but no like it's there and I'm already fighting with it because I was the very I had the

01:49:37   thing for

01:49:39   15 minutes before I was googling for disable indicator light echo dot of course you were like it's got a giant

01:49:46   It's the original dot not the new fancy one for the original dot right and it's got that giant ring

01:49:51   The giant ring of lights and I wanted that light to go away. No, it's good

01:49:54   Cuz then you have you have it as a big volume knob. No, I don't I don't like the light

01:49:58   The answer is you can't disable the light. So just in case you were wondering

01:50:01   But you know what one one big advantage of that is like

01:50:04   You always know whether it is hearing you like that's the one I really don't like with the home pod that

01:50:10   Unless you're standing around top of it. You can't tell if it's hearing what you're saying

01:50:14   But you know the but the echo is like they have that big

01:50:17   LED ring on top and you can see it from anywhere in the room

01:50:19   You could see is it hearing me right now?

01:50:21   And that's a very valuable bit of feedback that the home pod really needs

01:50:25   Yeah

01:50:25   But it's a little bit aggressive like it's getting to the point where I was considering googling had to disable the feature

01:50:30   Like when you have notifications or messages it goes like yellow Oh turn and I did this feature

01:50:35   I didn't even know existed right so I could disable that feature

01:50:38   I suppose say please stop telling me about notifications like when an Amazon package arrived

01:50:42   It just solid yellow the whole time, right?

01:50:45   and so I come in into the solid yellow thing and it lets me know that there's something that it wants to tell me but

01:50:50   I'm not really into that feature. Like I can tell a package arrived. I don't need the little thing to be lit up

01:50:54   So I'm almost at the point where I'm asking disable that merely to just get it to turn off the light

01:50:59   I wish I could just tell it

01:51:00   Don't turn on your light ever unless I'm talking to you

01:51:03   Maybe I would accept that as a feedback to let you know that you heard me

01:51:06   But what if I have not spoken to you do not turn on any of your lights because they're pretty bright

01:51:10   So, you know, but anyway, it was free some work

01:51:13   Well, you know free for the cost of me throwing in something into the Anki swap

01:51:16   So I've got all the things and that's why I was looking at for outlet things

01:51:22   I've got some lights that I want to control and I will have literally three devices that I can talk to to control those lights

01:51:27   Maybe I'll connect it up to all of them and they can all compete to see you control the lights first

01:51:31   It is cool to say to your watch

01:51:34   Hey dingus turn off the Christmas tree and have the Christmas tree turn itself off like that's no different

01:51:40   Really than using the person in the tube or anything like that, but it's just something magical about doing that via your watch

01:51:46   I do think that's quite neat

01:51:48   I have more practical needs in that I have just floor lamps that are not connected to a switch

01:51:53   So every time I want to turn them on and off I have to walk over to the corner of the room and turn

01:51:57   On the lamp and then I have to walk over the other side of the room and try like by touching them

01:52:00   So it's like a practical concern. Yeah, that's

01:52:03   Like well, you know, it would be nice if I could say something

01:52:07   The other problem is I have some recessed lights that an outlet is not gonna help with

01:52:11   I would actually need like a smart switch or something or a smart smart light bulb. There are smart. We most switches

01:52:16   I I don't know if their home could compatible yet

01:52:19   I think they might be but there are we mode wall switches and we I haven't installed them

01:52:23   But some people in the family have and they seem to work. Well, it's really nice. Like it seems extravagant to

01:52:29   Install like small Wi-Fi devices to let you voice control two lamps in a room

01:52:36   So you don't to walk across the room and touch two lamps, but when you do that every day

01:52:40   It's actually a really nice little quality life improvement to just be able to speak into the air

01:52:45   Hey thing turn off everything and they just go off and yeah, you save ten steps and

01:52:50   You know, it isn't a big deal once

01:52:52   But when you do it every day and you're saving ten steps every day like that adds up and it's just like it's a nice

01:52:58   Little thing. It's just it's just pleasant. I

01:53:01   Think any things in my life that make me take ten more steps every day. No, not ten fewer steps

01:53:06   Yeah, but that should be steps you want to take. Yeah. Yeah exciting exciting steps. Yeah

01:53:12   Quality of steps. These are low quality steps

01:53:16   QoS

01:53:19   (beeping)