295: Outlets That Suck
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- I still haven't bothered picking up a watch,
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and at this point I'm like,
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"I don't know if I should even bother."
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- Why, are we too close to the next one?
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- No, it's just I feel like I've missed all the excitement
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at this point.
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- Obviously he doesn't need it
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if he's getting by without it so long.
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- Yeah, exactly.
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- So two things.
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Number one, it really is the big deal.
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And if you care this much, you probably should buy it.
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But number two, if the only reason you wanted to buy it
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was to participate in the wave of newness,
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then you shouldn't.
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- I didn't think so.
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But now I'm wondering, now I'm wondering,
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if maybe that was it.
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- That's a very bad reason to buy it
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because that's very short-lived.
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But if you wear the Apple Watch every day
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and you really are into the Apple Watch,
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you should buy it.
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- Yeah, and that's what it boils down to,
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is I think both of those,
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I don't know if I'm really into the Apple Watch.
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What does really even mean in this context?
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But I take your point, and I think that in spirit,
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what you mean is spot on.
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And I probably should go find one.
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I haven't looked at iStock now in a while,
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and I haven't just ordered online because--
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- No, literally, just walk into a store in the morning.
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Like, you know, now that you don't have a job,
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you can do this.
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Like, just, you know, your local store will probably--
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- Seriously, I'm doing my job right now.
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- It probably opens at like 10 in the morning.
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Just go there at 10 in the morning one day
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and say, "Hey, do you have any?"
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And they'll say yes or no.
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And if they say no, say, "Hey, what time
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"do they usually come in?"
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And they'll tell you like 1 p.m.
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And then so next time, show up at 1 p.m.
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and say, "Hey, do you have any?"
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- I bet if you actually do that,
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I bet you can get one within two days.
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- You're probably right.
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I have been making a habit of looking at iStock now
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like a fool, although, oh, actually, this is,
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I went to my friend's house.
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I think we didn't talk about this on the show, did we?
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'Cause I think it was after we recorded.
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The husband has a 44, the wife has a 40.
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I think I gotta go 40.
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I think I do.
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- The 40 lifestyle is awesome.
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I really enjoy the 40.
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Like, it's a really good size.
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It really is much better proportioned for me.
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You know, so I'm curious your reason,
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but my reason stands that like,
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I care about how a watch looks on my wrist.
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I care about the proportions of it
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and I get a lot of value out of a small watch
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being sufficient on me because that's graceful,
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that's pleasing, it's lighter, it's smaller.
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That actually is more valuable to me.
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The smaller I can go and have it
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still look reasonable on me.
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And so I'm curious your reasoning
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'cause you're more into it than me
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like as a computing platform.
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So why do you say 40?
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- Just from looks.
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I think that the 42 looked on the upper edge
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of okay on my wrist.
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You know, as I look down on my wrist now,
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I think I'm right on the ragged edge of it being okay.
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And even though the 44 is only two millimeters,
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and maybe it's all in my head, who knows,
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but at the end of the day, even if it's in my head,
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let's suppose it is,
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I still gotta look at my own darn wrist every day, you know?
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And if I look at it and go, ugh,
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then that's not a good thing.
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And so even though I really don't wanna get rid of my bands,
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which is funny because I only have like three or four,
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only one or two of which are actually decent,
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it makes me kind of not sick,
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but it bums me out to not being able to use the stuff
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I already have on what appears to be the same device.
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Like I totally understand it.
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I'm not saying Apple did anything wrong here.
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But that being said, you know, when I tried on,
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this is my friend, Steve and Kristen,
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when I tried on Steve's watch, it didn't look,
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it wasn't out of bounds unacceptable if that means anything,
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if that makes sense.
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It's just, it didn't quite look right on my wrist.
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And I thought it looked fine on his wrist.
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His wrists are bigger than mine.
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And so I think that makes sense.
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But on my wrist, I just didn't think it looked quite right.
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And I thought that the 40 did look a hint smaller
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than I would have liked,
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but all told, I think it looked better than the 44.
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And I think part of this is just some, I don't know,
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maybe latent or subconscious angst about me
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not having the wrists for like a Panerai.
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'Cause one of the first times I looked at a watch
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and thought, damn, that's a good looking watch,
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was a friend of mine who was a watch nerd, not Marco,
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surprisingly, 'cause this was years ago.
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And he had a Panerai, I forget the model,
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but it's one of the ones with like the weird clasp
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on the right hand side around the crown,
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which a lot of people hate.
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And I think you're in that camp, Marco, but I love,
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I just think it looks really cool.
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- I prefer the ones without it, but yeah.
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It's a cool look overall.
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Like all of their stuff looks pretty much the same.
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And it's all a pretty cool look.
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Although to be fair, the Panerai look
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is a statement of bigness.
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Like they are big intentionally.
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That is the look, that is the style they're going for.
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- I'm glad you said that.
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That is a perfect way to describe it.
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And I always thought that, yeah, they're huge.
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And we're just comical on my wrist.
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Like I tried my friends on once
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and it was hilariously oversized.
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But I always thought to myself like,
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and this was even years ago when I was just wearing
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either no watch or like a crummy Timex wristwatch,
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you know, that was like 25 bucks at Target, which I loved.
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And it's actually a very good looking Timex.
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You're probably thinking of the exact one
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I'm thinking of, both Marco and listeners.
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But anyways, I always thought to myself,
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you know, if I ever fall upon just an absurd amount of money,
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I'm gonna get myself a Panerai and just not care
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about the fact that it looks ridiculously stupid.
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And so I wish I had bigger wrists.
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Maybe I just gotta take the Dr. Nick approach,
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that's a reference, John,
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and get myself a little bit bigger
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so I can sport one of these watches.
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But realistically, I think it's just the 40 looks better
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than the 44.
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And there is something to be said
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for being able to share watch bands with Aaron,
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which I can't imagine that would happen often,
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but it would be kind of nice
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to be able to share them occasionally.
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So I think whenever it is I get around
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to pulling the trigger on a watch,
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I think I'm gonna do a 40.
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And part of the reason I wanna do it in the store
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is because I'm pretty sure I just wanna, you know,
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trade in or whatever the term is in this context,
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you know, get rid of my 44 that I'm wearing now
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and get a credit against the 40 that I would be buying.
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- You can do that in store?
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- I thought that was the case.
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And what I had read after having looked
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only briefly into this was that it's actually much better
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to do it in store because I guess they do some amount
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of the assessment in store, whereas if you send it in,
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whatever third party vendor is handling that,
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my understanding is they're way more aggressive
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about taking credit away.
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So let's say for the sake of discussion,
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I think my watch was, my current watch is worth like 225 bucks
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and let's just say that's true even if it isn't.
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My understanding is if you go in store,
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you're likely to get 200, 225 bucks for it,
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whatever the case may be.
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But if you send it in, you're getting like 150 at the best.
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You know what I mean?
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Because they just, oh, well, this has a tiny hairline
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scratch you can only see under a microscope
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that we have at our little facility
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or whatever the case may be.
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So I wanna do it in store
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and that's why I haven't just ordered it
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and so one of these days I just need to walk in
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like you said and just give it a shot.
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- Well, for whatever it's worth, on that topic,
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since this year I learned of this system
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of trading things in, I'd sent in a bunch of stuff.
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Over the last couple of weeks, I have sent in
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two iPhone 6s, an 8 Plus, my iPhone 10,
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which is still processing because it took a while
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to get there, and my Series 3 Apple Watch.
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All of them so far, I don't know about the 10 yet,
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but all of the other ones have given me
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the exact quoted price online.
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- Oh really, okay.
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- So is this Apple Giveback?
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Is that what I'm thinking of?
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Is that the term for it?
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- Yes, and it's run by, I think it's run by
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two different companies, BrightStar or Fobio.
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All the other ones except for the 10 went to BrightStar.
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The 10 went to Fobio and it's like it went FedEx
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and the others went UPS.
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Like I don't know if this is actually
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two different companies or just two different
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receiving centers for different age devices.
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But so far it's been totally fine.
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I've gotten the full value of everything I sent in.
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And I know I can get more if I go to eBay or something,
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but I don't want to deal with that.
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That's the reason why I try to sell things
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on Twitter so often, 'cause dealing with eBay
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is tricky and very risky.
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Even as a seller it's very risky.
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There's a lot of scam buyers out there.
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It is worth it to me to give up some of the value
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for an easy sale, and that's what these things have given me.
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And so yeah, for whatever it's worth,
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I have been, I've been totally fine with my experience
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with this company so far, but your mileage may vary.
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- Yeah, I hear you.
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Also we should tell everyone that we fired John
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from the show, so it's just us now.
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- John never gets rid of anything.
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- I'm looking at these ugly Panerai watches.
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It occurs to me, I mean this is something
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that I think about, and I'm sure some other people do,
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but like do you guys ever worry about wearing things
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that can either injure you or increase the,
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increase the severity of injuries to you?
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About the little, this ridiculous guard thing
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they have over the--
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- Yes, it's called a crown guard.
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- Whatever, right?
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So if you're looking where that is,
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depending on what wrist you wear it on,
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like if you fall and catch yourself with your hand
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and the palm of your hand goes to the ground
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and so it's like at a 90 degree angle with your forearm,
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that thing's gonna dig into and cut into
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the top of your hand.
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Like it just is, it's a sharp piece of metal
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and it's a big, chunky watch.
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- It doesn't stick out that far.
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- Basically the same thing as like wearing earrings.
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Like you're probably fine, but if you wear
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big dangly earrings, they could get caught in something
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and yank through your earlobe and in a situation
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where your earlobe would otherwise be fine, right?
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Like so there are things that you can wear
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that can injure you or increase the severity of an injury
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that you would, you'd be injured anyway,
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but wearing the thing increases the injury
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or makes it much more severe.
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And these giant watches definitely look like
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they would increase the severity of an injury
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or possibly injure you in a case where you wouldn't
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have an injury in that area.
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And they could also protect you I suppose
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if you block bullets with them like Wonder Woman, but.
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- No, it doesn't stick out that far.
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It's like, no, this is a non-issue.
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It does not stick out that far.
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You're not gonna injure yourself with your Panerai.
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- Even just a regular watch with nothing sticking out on it
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can increase the severity of your injury
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if it snags on something or presses against
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some part of your skin because it's just a foreign object
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attached to you, I don't know.
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I'm obviously, I don't even wear my wedding ring anymore.
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I don't wear earrings, don't wear a watch, so.
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- Wait, did you wear earrings at some point?
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- No, I just said I don't.
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I didn't use a tense that,
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should lead you to believe that I did.
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I do not have any additional holes in my ears.
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- That would be kind of, I would love to see this
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if we can somehow arrange this.
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- I can get a clip on earring.
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I'll put it on for you right now.
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- But that, I mean, I suppose that could increase
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the chance of injury as well.
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- Even just a simple earring, like, because the post
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goes through, if your ear gets pressed against your neck,
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the post can go into your neck.
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- I think if you're to that point where that's a risk,
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I think you have bigger problems.
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- That's why you can't wear, you know,
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earrings in gym class.
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Like, they don't want you to poke a hole in your neck.
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- Oh my God.
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- Or get your earring ripped out.
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- Well, but the good news is if you fall into the water,
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the Panerai, isn't the history of Panerai
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that it was like a diving watch or something like that?
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And so you would at least know what time it is
00:11:01
◼
►
as you're, you know, drowning.
00:11:03
◼
►
So that's good.
00:11:04
◼
►
- The bloom is so strong that as you go into the depths
00:11:06
◼
►
of drowning, you will see that time for quite a while
00:11:08
◼
►
as you go down.
00:11:09
◼
►
- Precisely.
00:11:11
◼
►
- And it's so big that it will weigh you down.
00:11:13
◼
►
- So it'll hurry it all up for you.
00:11:14
◼
►
- It'll go down faster.
00:11:16
◼
►
- All right, we should probably get some started
00:11:18
◼
►
with some follow up.
00:11:19
◼
►
Greg Parker writes in that ARMv8.3 adds a new float
00:11:23
◼
►
to int instruction with errors and out of range values
00:11:25
◼
►
handled the way that JavaScript wants.
00:11:27
◼
►
The previous instructions to get JavaScript semantics
00:11:29
◼
►
were much slower, so JavaScript's numbers are double
00:11:32
◼
►
by default, so it needs this conversion a lot.
00:11:35
◼
►
So this is with regard to the dramatically increased
00:11:38
◼
►
or improved benchmarks on the new A12 processor,
00:11:42
◼
►
is that correct?
00:11:43
◼
►
- Yeah, it did really well in the JavaScript benchmark.
00:11:47
◼
►
And you know, this is just depressing.
00:11:50
◼
►
Kind of in the, it's worse I think than, you know,
00:11:52
◼
►
the quote unquote string instructions in x86
00:11:55
◼
►
because JavaScript, as we all know, is a dumb language.
00:11:58
◼
►
No one making a language today would decide,
00:12:02
◼
►
you know what, semantics for like edge cases
00:12:04
◼
►
and booleans and type conversion and how numbers are stored,
00:12:07
◼
►
like no one would choose this.
00:12:09
◼
►
It's not good.
00:12:11
◼
►
No one is like, I love how JavaScript handles numbers.
00:12:13
◼
►
It's so obvious and does what I want all the time
00:12:16
◼
►
and doesn't have any weird edge cases.
00:12:18
◼
►
It's just the best.
00:12:19
◼
►
No, it's stupid.
00:12:20
◼
►
But we're stuck with it.
00:12:21
◼
►
- It's like the way PHP named functions
00:12:22
◼
►
or orders arguments to things.
00:12:24
◼
►
- Yeah, like I mean, it's JavaScript is a victim
00:12:26
◼
►
of its own success, it's everywhere now.
00:12:28
◼
►
And they keep changing, you know, JavaScript,
00:12:30
◼
►
but there's a lot of things like that
00:12:31
◼
►
that you can't, you would think,
00:12:33
◼
►
oh, why don't they just change it?
00:12:34
◼
►
Why don't they just change it
00:12:35
◼
►
so they're just native in storage behind the scenes
00:12:36
◼
►
and not have everything be doubles.
00:12:38
◼
►
But that would change programs,
00:12:40
◼
►
how they would break programs, right?
00:12:41
◼
►
And the web, you know, they keep adding stuff to JavaScript
00:12:44
◼
►
and adding new features, but the fundamentals like that
00:12:47
◼
►
are changing slowly, put it that way.
00:12:48
◼
►
I don't know if they've changed at all,
00:12:49
◼
►
but they're changing very slowly.
00:12:51
◼
►
So adding an instruction that lets you quickly convert
00:12:56
◼
►
from JavaScript's stupid everything is a double
00:12:59
◼
►
even though you think it's,
00:13:00
◼
►
even though you start as the number one,
00:13:01
◼
►
it's like, I know I'll start that as a double,
00:13:03
◼
►
please don't, right?
00:13:05
◼
►
And the whole like 53 bits of precision for, you know,
00:13:08
◼
►
integers, even though it's there 64 bits long.
00:13:10
◼
►
Anyway, there's lots of stupid things about it.
00:13:13
◼
►
But given that JavaScript does this
00:13:16
◼
►
and you have to follow these semantics,
00:13:18
◼
►
having a CPU instruction that does this conversion
00:13:23
◼
►
and handles it the way JavaScript wants you to handle it
00:13:25
◼
►
in terms of what have I converted and it's too big
00:13:27
◼
►
or too small underflow and overflow and all of this stuff
00:13:29
◼
►
makes a JavaScript benchmark faster
00:13:31
◼
►
because the JavaScript benchmark, maybe, you know,
00:13:33
◼
►
a couple of them are doing lots of stuff in numerics
00:13:35
◼
►
where otherwise they'd be spending so much of their time
00:13:37
◼
►
doing conversions from int to float to float
00:13:38
◼
►
in and back and forth.
00:13:40
◼
►
If you can do that 10 times faster,
00:13:42
◼
►
you get a higher score on the benchmark.
00:13:44
◼
►
So that is, that's gross and depressing.
00:13:47
◼
►
And I don't want my CPUs perverted by a stupid language,
00:13:50
◼
►
but regular people just want web pages to be faster
00:13:54
◼
►
and this gets the job done.
00:13:56
◼
►
So I suppose, you know, you have more explanation
00:13:59
◼
►
of why the A12 does so well on this JavaScript benchmark,
00:14:02
◼
►
even if it's a depressing explanation.
00:14:05
◼
►
- Minecraft is leaving the Apple TV.
00:14:08
◼
►
We're grateful to the Apple TV community for their support,
00:14:10
◼
►
but we need to reallocate resources to the platforms
00:14:13
◼
►
that our players use the most.
00:14:14
◼
►
Don't worry though, you can still play Minecraft
00:14:16
◼
►
on Apple TV, keep building in your world
00:14:17
◼
►
and your marketplace purchases, including Minecoins,
00:14:19
◼
►
will continue to be available.
00:14:21
◼
►
I know nothing about Minecraft,
00:14:23
◼
►
so John, will you translate for me?
00:14:25
◼
►
- Do you know that Minecraft is really popular?
00:14:27
◼
►
- I did know that.
00:14:28
◼
►
Although I did not know it was on the Apple TV.
00:14:31
◼
►
- Well, yeah, there was a story about it.
00:14:32
◼
►
And I think it was even an Apple presentation at some point.
00:14:34
◼
►
Anyway, Minecraft was a wildly popular game.
00:14:37
◼
►
It's been popular for years and years.
00:14:39
◼
►
And the straightforward hot take on this is,
00:14:42
◼
►
as everyone has said who's responding to these tweets
00:14:44
◼
►
about this is that if you have a gaming platform
00:14:48
◼
►
where Minecraft feels like there aren't enough users,
00:14:50
◼
►
where you can't support Minecraft,
00:14:52
◼
►
you have a crap gaming platform.
00:14:54
◼
►
Because it's not like this is some obscure game.
00:14:56
◼
►
If Minecraft can't get enough people to play it,
00:14:59
◼
►
to justify porting it, like it's incredibly popular.
00:15:03
◼
►
And the people who play it don't demand
00:15:05
◼
►
super high performance or need to have a mouse and keyboard,
00:15:07
◼
►
or it's not a platform exclusive like Apple TV,
00:15:11
◼
►
but they say, you know what, it's not even worth it.
00:15:13
◼
►
It's not even worth it to like the most popular game
00:15:16
◼
►
in the world, like before Fortnite probably.
00:15:18
◼
►
One of the most popular games in the world,
00:15:20
◼
►
one of the most popular games ever made.
00:15:23
◼
►
It's not worth their time to be in your plan.
00:15:24
◼
►
This is after a fairly high profile,
00:15:26
◼
►
even though none of you remember it,
00:15:28
◼
►
coming out and saying, and Minecraft will be on Apple TV.
00:15:31
◼
►
Yay, see, it's a good gaming platform.
00:15:33
◼
►
Notice by the way that they're not pulling off of like iOS.
00:15:36
◼
►
Like I think they still have a phone version
00:15:38
◼
►
and an iPad version.
00:15:40
◼
►
It's Apple TV in particular that they can't be bothered with
00:15:42
◼
►
because not enough people play Minecraft on Apple TV.
00:15:46
◼
►
And that's depressing.
00:15:47
◼
►
We've talked about Apple TV and games in general and Apple.
00:15:51
◼
►
And you know, I think Apple probably should care about this
00:15:56
◼
►
because it's a big external validation of the idea
00:15:59
◼
►
that Apple TV is not a good gaming platform.
00:16:02
◼
►
Like not that you need much validation.
00:16:05
◼
►
It's more like a dumping ground for people
00:16:08
◼
►
who have an iOS game and think,
00:16:10
◼
►
ah, you'll probably make an Apple TV
00:16:11
◼
►
or maybe it'll be okay.
00:16:12
◼
►
But nobody is getting an Apple TV to play games on it.
00:16:17
◼
►
It's just not really a thing.
00:16:21
◼
►
I'm sure people who have Apple TVs might enjoy the fact
00:16:23
◼
►
that they can play games on it.
00:16:25
◼
►
That's different than having a gaming platform.
00:16:26
◼
►
I think we've discussed in the past.
00:16:28
◼
►
If you really want to break into the gaming business,
00:16:31
◼
►
you can do what Apple did and fall ass backwards into it
00:16:33
◼
►
and say, oh wow, games, they make a lot of money.
00:16:36
◼
►
Or you can set out to have a gaming platform,
00:16:40
◼
►
which is what Microsoft did.
00:16:41
◼
►
And that involves a lot of giving people a lot of money
00:16:44
◼
►
and losing money over a long period of time
00:16:46
◼
►
and courting game developers,
00:16:47
◼
►
generally doing what Apple is doing with television now,
00:16:50
◼
►
which is find talent,
00:16:52
◼
►
get them to make things for your platform, market it.
00:16:54
◼
►
And it remains to be seen if Apple will be successful,
00:16:56
◼
►
but that's what it takes
00:16:57
◼
►
because gaming is the entertainment industry
00:16:58
◼
►
and you can't just say, we have a platform,
00:17:01
◼
►
now come make great things for it
00:17:03
◼
►
because that's not how the creative
00:17:05
◼
►
and gaming industry works
00:17:06
◼
►
because all the other players are out there
00:17:08
◼
►
courting developers and trying to get the best content
00:17:11
◼
►
and getting platform exclusives and paying for marketing
00:17:14
◼
►
and paying for people to bring ports to the thing.
00:17:17
◼
►
It's difficult to build critical mass.
00:17:19
◼
►
So Apple is back to its normal position,
00:17:21
◼
►
which is people just seem to love to make games
00:17:25
◼
►
for our phone platform because we have a bunch of users
00:17:28
◼
►
who are willing to spend money on software
00:17:29
◼
►
and you can build your casino, human nature,
00:17:31
◼
►
exploiting free to play casinos for children.
00:17:36
◼
►
And we make tons of money off that
00:17:37
◼
►
and we somehow we manage to sleep at night,
00:17:40
◼
►
but it doesn't really require us to do anything
00:17:42
◼
►
other than sell lots of iPhones every year,
00:17:43
◼
►
which is itself a difficult task,
00:17:45
◼
►
but still it's not,
00:17:46
◼
►
the iPhone is not a gaming platform first
00:17:49
◼
►
and everything else second,
00:17:51
◼
►
despite games being by far the best seller in the app store.
00:17:54
◼
►
- We are sponsored this week by Mack Weldon
00:17:58
◼
►
and they make the best underwear, socks, shirts,
00:18:02
◼
►
so many other wonderful clothing basics.
00:18:04
◼
►
I'll tell you what,
00:18:05
◼
►
they can't pay me to say how much I like it.
00:18:09
◼
►
They can pay me to tell you that it has smart design,
00:18:11
◼
►
premium fabrics, simple shopping experience.
00:18:13
◼
►
Those are all true.
00:18:15
◼
►
They say they will have the most comfortable underwear,
00:18:17
◼
►
socks, shirts, undershirts, hoodies and sweatpants
00:18:20
◼
►
and more that you will ever wear.
00:18:21
◼
►
They have a silver line that has silver antimicrobial fabric
00:18:25
◼
►
woven in so it actually eliminates odor
00:18:27
◼
►
and helps prevent you from getting stinky.
00:18:28
◼
►
Those are all true, but let me tell you,
00:18:31
◼
►
this clothing is awesome.
00:18:33
◼
►
They can pay me to say all the other stuff.
00:18:34
◼
►
They can't pay me to say that this is what I wear
00:18:37
◼
►
the vast majority of the time.
00:18:38
◼
►
Almost every day I'm wearing something,
00:18:40
◼
►
at least one thing for Mack Weldon.
00:18:41
◼
►
I'm always wearing their underwear.
00:18:43
◼
►
I'm probably wearing one of their shirts now
00:18:45
◼
►
and I might be wearing their socks,
00:18:46
◼
►
I might be wearing their sweatpants
00:18:47
◼
►
or their awesome shorts or they have a jacket now,
00:18:50
◼
►
they have a hoodie, they have long sleeve shirts
00:18:52
◼
►
which are great now as we go into fall and winter.
00:18:54
◼
►
I love especially the warm knit shirt.
00:18:56
◼
►
That's a super nice one, but also just their basic t-shirts
00:18:58
◼
►
are really, really nice.
00:19:00
◼
►
They're just super nice.
00:19:01
◼
►
I love them so much.
00:19:02
◼
►
Over the last few months, I did a diet and I lost some weight
00:19:05
◼
►
and I changed sizes so I had to buy a lot of new clothes.
00:19:09
◼
►
My old clothes didn't fit anymore
00:19:11
◼
►
and I bought all Mack Weldon stuff.
00:19:13
◼
►
That's how much I like it.
00:19:14
◼
►
It's so good.
00:19:15
◼
►
I just stocked up with Mack Weldon.
00:19:16
◼
►
I got all the basic shirts, underwear, stuff like that.
00:19:19
◼
►
It's so good.
00:19:20
◼
►
It's all I wanna wear now and I wear it almost every day.
00:19:22
◼
►
So check it out, mackweldon.com.
00:19:25
◼
►
When you enter code ATP at checkout,
00:19:27
◼
►
you can get 20% off your first order.
00:19:30
◼
►
I highly suggest you check these out.
00:19:32
◼
►
If you wear the kind of stuff they make
00:19:34
◼
►
and you probably do, check out Mack Weldon.
00:19:36
◼
►
Once again, mackweldon.com,
00:19:38
◼
►
20% off your first order with code ATP.
00:19:40
◼
►
Thank you so much to Mack Weldon
00:19:41
◼
►
for making my entire wardrobe now
00:19:43
◼
►
and for sponsoring our show.
00:19:45
◼
►
(upbeat music)
00:19:48
◼
►
Screen time is here and I have barely looked at it,
00:19:51
◼
►
but I presume one of you has a little more thoughts
00:19:53
◼
►
on this than I do.
00:19:55
◼
►
- I put this in here back when screen time
00:19:56
◼
►
was actually here, back with iOS 12 introduction.
00:19:59
◼
►
It's been sitting there and we've had other things
00:20:01
◼
►
to talk about, whatever.
00:20:02
◼
►
I put it in for a couple of reasons.
00:20:04
◼
►
One, I figure it's a good time for us to check in
00:20:06
◼
►
with our own screen times to see if there's any surprises.
00:20:09
◼
►
I'm assuming we all have it turned on
00:20:10
◼
►
and occasionally we look at it.
00:20:12
◼
►
So what do we think about the information
00:20:14
◼
►
we found out there?
00:20:15
◼
►
The second reason is because I also turned it on
00:20:17
◼
►
for my kids and I wanted to talk about that.
00:20:20
◼
►
- Ooh, this sounds fun.
00:20:21
◼
►
- But let's do us first.
00:20:23
◼
►
I thought I was using screen time,
00:20:25
◼
►
but until last night when I was trying to figure out
00:20:27
◼
►
why my settings has the one indicator on it,
00:20:31
◼
►
I didn't actually have it turned on.
00:20:33
◼
►
So I just turned it on last night,
00:20:34
◼
►
so I don't really have useful data yet.
00:20:36
◼
►
- Most use for me, the Plex Beta,
00:20:39
◼
►
because that's how I've been watching a couple of things
00:20:43
◼
►
here and there, like before I go to sleep.
00:20:46
◼
►
Tweetbot, messages, Instagram, Safari, Facebook,
00:20:48
◼
►
surprisingly, wow, I didn't really think
00:20:50
◼
►
I looked at Facebook that much, huh, and mail.
00:20:53
◼
►
90 pickups a day, 1,005 notifications.
00:20:56
◼
►
This is last seven days, 500, maybe more,
00:21:00
◼
►
or more than 500, I don't know,
00:21:02
◼
►
just as 500 messages, notifications, that's my most.
00:21:04
◼
►
182 mail notifications, which have been on my to-do list
00:21:07
◼
►
to turn that, crank that down even more than I already have.
00:21:11
◼
►
My garage door opener, getting pissed off about everything.
00:21:14
◼
►
Like, hey, the light turned on, the light turned off,
00:21:16
◼
►
the garage is open, the garage is closed,
00:21:17
◼
►
I gotta turn that down.
00:21:19
◼
►
Instagram, our baby, she pooped, she peed,
00:21:22
◼
►
she ate, et cetera thing, ESPN and Slack.
00:21:25
◼
►
- So no surprises for you except for Facebook,
00:21:26
◼
►
which you didn't think you were using that much,
00:21:28
◼
►
but showed up in the top five or whatever.
00:21:30
◼
►
- One, two, three, four, five, top six, but yes,
00:21:33
◼
►
that is an accurate description.
00:21:34
◼
►
Time per day, it's hard for me to tell.
00:21:37
◼
►
I don't, well, Tuesday apparently was six hours,
00:21:40
◼
►
which seems pretty aggressive, but I don't know.
00:21:43
◼
►
Yeah, the only thing I'd say I can definitely glean
00:21:46
◼
►
from this is that I spend a lot of time on Twitter
00:21:49
◼
►
and messages, which I knew, a fair bit of time
00:21:51
◼
►
on Instagram and Safari, which I knew,
00:21:53
◼
►
more than I thought on Facebook,
00:21:54
◼
►
and I get a lot of text messages.
00:21:55
◼
►
- What's interesting to me is that it's,
00:21:57
◼
►
mine is, I mean, even though I have very small,
00:21:59
◼
►
you know, number of values here,
00:22:02
◼
►
but it's breaking down to individual websites in Safari,
00:22:06
◼
►
and they look like apps.
00:22:08
◼
►
- Yeah, if they get up to, like it'll do,
00:22:11
◼
►
if a particular website you're on
00:22:14
◼
►
for a significant period of time,
00:22:15
◼
►
it ranks that website right alongside everything else.
00:22:17
◼
►
It still shows you your Safari total, though,
00:22:19
◼
►
which is handy for the kid stuff
00:22:20
◼
►
to find out which websites they're on.
00:22:22
◼
►
- So I can't say, other than the,
00:22:25
◼
►
I mean, Facebook was what, 58 minutes in the last seven days,
00:22:28
◼
►
which is not egregious, but more than I thought, to be fair.
00:22:32
◼
►
But anyways, other than that,
00:22:33
◼
►
I wouldn't say there was that much.
00:22:34
◼
►
That was really too terribly interesting.
00:22:36
◼
►
- Well, I've been watching, I use my iPad a lot,
00:22:39
◼
►
and I've been watching TV shows on it,
00:22:41
◼
►
so like Hulu is by far my number one,
00:22:43
◼
►
'cause they just like binged an entire season or something,
00:22:45
◼
►
and Netflix is like in third place, and Twitter.
00:22:47
◼
►
Twitter is the top non-I'm watching video app.
00:22:51
◼
►
YouTube, surprisingly, is, well, I guess not that much,
00:22:53
◼
►
one hour over the past seven days of YouTube,
00:22:56
◼
►
but it's video, you know, so I do watch,
00:22:58
◼
►
I'm not, I don't know how to split stuff by device,
00:23:00
◼
►
but this is all devices, and I can tell you
00:23:02
◼
►
that all the videos on my iPad.
00:23:04
◼
►
Other than me watching TV shows on my stuff,
00:23:07
◼
►
I think I'm using my devices less than you.
00:23:09
◼
►
My average pickups per day is 17.
00:23:11
◼
►
- Oh my God, you basically never touch your phone.
00:23:15
◼
►
- You gotta get out of that whole pouch and everything.
00:23:17
◼
►
It's a big ordeal. - That's true.
00:23:18
◼
►
- This is the phone and the iPad, remember.
00:23:20
◼
►
It's not just the phone.
00:23:21
◼
►
- What do you do all,
00:23:22
◼
►
you really do love the Mac, don't you?
00:23:25
◼
►
- And then my notifications per day is 29,
00:23:28
◼
►
and almost all of those are from Nest, again,
00:23:31
◼
►
security, camera stuff,
00:23:33
◼
►
noticing the light moving across the room.
00:23:36
◼
►
- Oh God, do the Nest engineers who design these
00:23:39
◼
►
sensing notification movement kind of things,
00:23:43
◼
►
do they not ever test it in a room that has a window?
00:23:46
◼
►
- Most of the time I get it as not the sun by itself,
00:23:49
◼
►
but like a branch with leaves on it
00:23:51
◼
►
swaying in the wind in front of the sun,
00:23:52
◼
►
making it flicker and move,
00:23:54
◼
►
but I think most of these notifications are,
00:23:57
◼
►
your Nest Cam thinks it hears a dog barking,
00:23:59
◼
►
and it's right, it does.
00:24:00
◼
►
My dog is barking.
00:24:01
◼
►
Sorry, neighbors.
00:24:03
◼
►
Second place is messages, but it's a very low number.
00:24:06
◼
►
And then third place is my dog's GPS thing
00:24:09
◼
►
for notifications.
00:24:10
◼
►
So yeah, what this is telling me is that basically
00:24:13
◼
►
I'm watching a lot of video in Netflix, Hulu, and YouTube,
00:24:16
◼
►
and TiVo even, one hour on TiVo, I think I watched, yeah.
00:24:19
◼
►
Occasionally if I'm in bed already
00:24:22
◼
►
and wanna watch TV show,
00:24:23
◼
►
I don't bother going downstairs to watch it
00:24:25
◼
►
if I'm gonna like,
00:24:26
◼
►
if it's the last thing I'm gonna watch before I go to bed
00:24:27
◼
►
or whatever, I'll watch it there, so not a lot.
00:24:30
◼
►
And then Twitter,
00:24:31
◼
►
Twitter is by far my number one actual iOS app
00:24:35
◼
►
that doesn't involve watching videos.
00:24:36
◼
►
So no surprises for me.
00:24:37
◼
►
I'm such an anti-notification person, just seeing,
00:24:42
◼
►
obviously when you rank stuff, you're gonna rank like,
00:24:44
◼
►
what is the thing that sends me the most notifications?
00:24:45
◼
►
There will always be a number one,
00:24:47
◼
►
unless you have zero notifications on,
00:24:48
◼
►
there will always be a number one.
00:24:50
◼
►
But my instinct is to look at that number one and say,
00:24:53
◼
►
I'm gonna knock you down.
00:24:54
◼
►
I gotta take whatever that number one is,
00:24:56
◼
►
let me see if I can cut that number of notifications in half,
00:24:57
◼
►
but there will always be a number one.
00:24:59
◼
►
It's not like I can eliminate it.
00:25:00
◼
►
It's like, if I follow this instinct, eventually,
00:25:02
◼
►
everything will have notifications turned off.
00:25:04
◼
►
So, I mean, maybe I'll make, I don't know,
00:25:07
◼
►
I like the Nest notifications
00:25:10
◼
►
and I'd like to be able to see
00:25:11
◼
►
if my dog is getting into something in the house
00:25:14
◼
►
or I like knowing like when the kids come home,
00:25:16
◼
►
they usually get a Nest notification
00:25:17
◼
►
from them walking in the door, you know?
00:25:19
◼
►
So, but on the kids' devices, I mean,
00:25:23
◼
►
transitioning into the kids' stuff,
00:25:24
◼
►
'cause it doesn't sound like we have any dramatic news
00:25:26
◼
►
for our stuff.
00:25:27
◼
►
- Well, hold on, before you do that, are you,
00:25:28
◼
►
either of you, I'm assuming not Marco,
00:25:30
◼
►
leveraging any of the like downtime or anything like that?
00:25:32
◼
►
Because I really should explore that.
00:25:34
◼
►
Maybe I'll set homework for myself
00:25:36
◼
►
that I need to play with that.
00:25:38
◼
►
Because as an example, we tend to eat dinner
00:25:41
◼
►
at around the same time every night
00:25:42
◼
►
and sometimes I'll get a buzz or notification or something,
00:25:45
◼
►
or maybe just not have the self-control
00:25:46
◼
►
to not pick up my phone.
00:25:48
◼
►
And I'll be using my phone over dinner,
00:25:51
◼
►
which obviously any family time
00:25:53
◼
►
I shouldn't be doing it, period.
00:25:54
◼
►
But particularly over dinner is kind of obnoxious with me.
00:25:57
◼
►
So maybe I'll try that and set that up
00:26:00
◼
►
to give myself a little downtime during dinner
00:26:02
◼
►
and see how that works out.
00:26:04
◼
►
But Jon, have you played with it?
00:26:04
◼
►
Well, let me start with Marco.
00:26:06
◼
►
I assume you haven't.
00:26:07
◼
►
- No, I haven't.
00:26:08
◼
►
I mean, I do schedule, do not disturb at night,
00:26:10
◼
►
like when I'm expected to be in bed, but otherwise, no.
00:26:13
◼
►
- All right, well, I'm gonna try some downtime
00:26:14
◼
►
and see how that works over dinner.
00:26:16
◼
►
Jon, what about you?
00:26:17
◼
►
Any downtime or app limits or anything?
00:26:19
◼
►
- No, I don't see why I would use downtime,
00:26:24
◼
►
because that's the thing that like stops you
00:26:27
◼
►
from using your device, right?
00:26:29
◼
►
- Or does it just lock out certain apps?
00:26:30
◼
►
- Yeah, or yeah, but I don't want
00:26:33
◼
►
to be locked out of anything.
00:26:34
◼
►
- I mean, for me, like, you know,
00:26:36
◼
►
just for me to try to add some kind of value
00:26:38
◼
►
to this discussion, not having any data on myself yet,
00:26:42
◼
►
I have spent, you know, periods in the past
00:26:44
◼
►
using things like Rescue Time
00:26:46
◼
►
that can track what I'm doing on the Mac.
00:26:48
◼
►
And this kind of stuff was never possible to do on iOS
00:26:52
◼
►
in some kind of like automated system I'd way before,
00:26:54
◼
►
which is why screen time is noteworthy and useful now.
00:26:57
◼
►
But on the Mac, it's been possible for a long time.
00:26:59
◼
►
So I have done that before for long spans.
00:27:02
◼
►
And just to do things, you know, kind of like what,
00:27:06
◼
►
like what our friends talk about like on Cortex
00:27:09
◼
►
and what you, Casey, have so far done very poorly
00:27:12
◼
►
on analog about time tracking.
00:27:16
◼
►
- This is a true story.
00:27:17
◼
►
- You know, what you're basically doing here
00:27:19
◼
►
is like time tracking for the stuff
00:27:20
◼
►
you're doing on your phone.
00:27:22
◼
►
And so the value there is in,
00:27:26
◼
►
not necessarily in like shaming you or in controlling you,
00:27:31
◼
►
the value is giving you information about something
00:27:34
◼
►
that your brain is pretty hard,
00:27:36
◼
►
or is pretty bad at estimating on its own.
00:27:38
◼
►
Like if you just ask most people,
00:27:39
◼
►
like how many times do you pick up your phone in a day?
00:27:41
◼
►
And you know, they'll give some estimate,
00:27:42
◼
►
it's actually like, you know, 10 times higher.
00:27:44
◼
►
'Cause like you just, your brain's not good at that.
00:27:46
◼
►
Or a more useful example of like,
00:27:48
◼
►
how long do you spend browsing Twitter every day?
00:27:51
◼
►
And, or every week?
00:27:52
◼
►
Like if you look at like, oh,
00:27:54
◼
►
if I wanna get 40 hours of work in in any given week,
00:27:57
◼
►
how many of those hours am I wasting on Twitter?
00:28:00
◼
►
And you can get that information now.
00:28:02
◼
►
Like you have that information.
00:28:03
◼
►
And when I've had that information in the past,
00:28:05
◼
►
like on my Mac, that number has been scary.
00:28:09
◼
►
That's why I have, that's why I made Quitter.
00:28:11
◼
►
Like that's why, because like I would see like,
00:28:14
◼
►
oh, I've used Twitter for something like, you know,
00:28:17
◼
►
six hours this week out of like the 40 or 50 or 60
00:28:21
◼
►
that I was at my computer.
00:28:22
◼
►
Like, that's not good.
00:28:23
◼
►
That's not worth it to me.
00:28:26
◼
►
And so the main value in this is giving you the tools
00:28:31
◼
►
to do whatever you feel is necessary.
00:28:33
◼
►
And that might be nothing.
00:28:34
◼
►
You might decide when you see your data,
00:28:35
◼
►
like you know what, okay,
00:28:36
◼
►
I already have a pretty good balance.
00:28:37
◼
►
I don't need to do anything right now.
00:28:39
◼
►
But it's useful to check in there every so often,
00:28:41
◼
►
just so you can see like,
00:28:42
◼
►
oh, I'm spending X hours a day or a week on this thing.
00:28:47
◼
►
Is that really worth it to me?
00:28:49
◼
►
Is that worth those X hours a week?
00:28:51
◼
►
Or should I use these tools to help me reduce that?
00:28:55
◼
►
That's really valuable.
00:28:57
◼
►
- I would have guessed way more than 70 pickups per day.
00:28:59
◼
►
I don't know if this thing is broken or what.
00:29:00
◼
►
I mean, every other number looked accurate,
00:29:02
◼
►
but I don't know if it's counting my pickups quite right.
00:29:04
◼
►
I feel like I'd, well, I don't know.
00:29:05
◼
►
Maybe if I added them up,
00:29:06
◼
►
I'd take out my phone more than 17 times a day today.
00:29:10
◼
►
I don't know.
00:29:10
◼
►
But anyway, downtime, yes.
00:29:12
◼
►
I use downtime on the kids.
00:29:14
◼
►
- How'd that go?
00:29:16
◼
►
- It's things that stops you from using your thing.
00:29:18
◼
►
You can make exceptions for applications
00:29:20
◼
►
and stuff like that.
00:29:20
◼
►
But no, I don't use that.
00:29:22
◼
►
Do not disturb is the feature that I love
00:29:26
◼
►
because although I have to sometimes remember
00:29:28
◼
►
that it's on iOS 12 is kind of obnoxious with this banner.
00:29:31
◼
►
Every time you have do not disturb on,
00:29:32
◼
►
there's a giant banner on your phone
00:29:33
◼
►
every time you look at it, just so you know,
00:29:35
◼
►
like it's on right now.
00:29:36
◼
►
So let me see what it looks like.
00:29:38
◼
►
- I find that great, honestly,
00:29:39
◼
►
because it prevents you from leaving it on
00:29:42
◼
►
without realizing it's on
00:29:43
◼
►
and missing everything for like a day.
00:29:44
◼
►
- Well, but there's a thing like time,
00:29:46
◼
►
I don't know why everybody doesn't do this.
00:29:47
◼
►
Time to do not disturb.
00:29:48
◼
►
This is my recommendation for everybody
00:29:50
◼
►
who's listening right now.
00:29:51
◼
►
Set scheduled do not disturb.
00:29:54
◼
►
Pick hours, like be conservative if you want.
00:29:56
◼
►
Say I don't want to be disturbed from 2 a.m. to 5 a.m.
00:29:59
◼
►
Maybe start with that if you're afraid
00:30:00
◼
►
I need to be reached all times.
00:30:01
◼
►
Just pick some times of like,
00:30:03
◼
►
after this hour I don't wanna be disturbed
00:30:05
◼
►
and before this hour I don't wanna be disturbed
00:30:06
◼
►
and just set time do not disturb for that time.
00:30:10
◼
►
It's such a simple thing that I'm shocked
00:30:12
◼
►
that everybody doesn't do it,
00:30:13
◼
►
but I always see people like,
00:30:14
◼
►
"Oh, I don't wanna do do not disturb,"
00:30:15
◼
►
or "I forget when it's on,"
00:30:16
◼
►
or "I just set a schedule."
00:30:17
◼
►
It's like, oh, then some people are like,
00:30:18
◼
►
"Oh, but what if someone wants to reach me at 10 o' one p.m."
00:30:21
◼
►
It's like your favorites can get through,
00:30:23
◼
►
repeated calls can get through.
00:30:24
◼
►
They'll reach you if they need to get through.
00:30:27
◼
►
So my time do not disturb is like 9 p.m. to like 6 a.m.
00:30:32
◼
►
or something like that.
00:30:34
◼
►
And that does for me what I think a lot of people
00:30:36
◼
►
are looking for for downtime.
00:30:37
◼
►
Well, maybe it's not the same thing.
00:30:38
◼
►
I'm not preventing myself from using my phone.
00:30:39
◼
►
Phone works fine as far as I'm concerned,
00:30:41
◼
►
but the point is if my phone is sitting next to me
00:30:43
◼
►
while I'm watching TV, it never disturbs my television
00:30:47
◼
►
'cause nothing will make it vibrate or make a noise,
00:30:50
◼
►
which is kind of annoying to other people who live with me
00:30:53
◼
►
because occasionally my wife or my kids will text me
00:30:56
◼
►
from upstairs.
00:30:58
◼
►
My kids will text me, not text me,
00:31:01
◼
►
I'll get the notifications then that they wanna buy an app
00:31:03
◼
►
or download an app or extend their downtime,
00:31:06
◼
►
which we'll get to in a second,
00:31:08
◼
►
and I won't see the notification,
00:31:09
◼
►
or my wife will text me and I won't see the notification.
00:31:12
◼
►
I mean, we're in the same house.
00:31:13
◼
►
They could just come and get me if they really cared,
00:31:14
◼
►
but they'd be like, "Why didn't you answer my text?"
00:31:16
◼
►
Like, "I didn't see your text."
00:31:18
◼
►
Like, my phone becomes dead to the world
00:31:20
◼
►
as far as notifying me about anything,
00:31:23
◼
►
but if I need to pick up my phone
00:31:24
◼
►
and look up where an actor is from or something,
00:31:26
◼
►
it works fine.
00:31:27
◼
►
Like, I'm not locking myself out of anything.
00:31:28
◼
►
So I don't see that I would ever use downtime,
00:31:31
◼
►
but that's the exact feature I want for my kids
00:31:34
◼
►
because it's just a sort of,
00:31:36
◼
►
it's computer enforced way of thinking.
00:31:38
◼
►
We always had downtime in the house.
00:31:39
◼
►
No electronics after whatever time, right?
00:31:41
◼
►
That's been a rule forever.
00:31:43
◼
►
But the problem is if you're not on top of them,
00:31:46
◼
►
they're always trying to eke out
00:31:47
◼
►
that extra two or three minutes,
00:31:48
◼
►
or they're like, "Oh, just let me finish this thing
00:31:50
◼
►
that I'm doing," or whatever,
00:31:51
◼
►
and it's just, it's a constant battle.
00:31:53
◼
►
And you can shortcut that battle
00:31:55
◼
►
and not fight over those extra two minutes,
00:31:57
◼
►
oh, whatever, by just having the computer do it.
00:32:00
◼
►
And there is a handy feature
00:32:01
◼
►
which they all quickly discovered
00:32:02
◼
►
which you can ask for an extension.
00:32:04
◼
►
So if you're in the middle of watching something
00:32:06
◼
►
and the big scary downtime banner comes over
00:32:09
◼
►
to precisely 9 p.m. or whatever,
00:32:12
◼
►
they can press a button on the screen
00:32:14
◼
►
that says ask for more time,
00:32:15
◼
►
and we'll get a notification that says,
00:32:18
◼
►
so-and-so would like to have 15 more minutes of YouTube
00:32:23
◼
►
or whatever app they're using.
00:32:23
◼
►
Like, it's specific to that app.
00:32:25
◼
►
And you could say yes or no,
00:32:27
◼
►
unless your phone doesn't do it at the start,
00:32:29
◼
►
in which case you don't see the notification.
00:32:30
◼
►
You have to wait for them to come whine in person,
00:32:31
◼
►
which is fine with me.
00:32:32
◼
►
Like, good, take the stairs.
00:32:34
◼
►
It's a good exercise.
00:32:35
◼
►
So we did that.
00:32:37
◼
►
A couple aspects of the experiment.
00:32:38
◼
►
I also wanted to see what they were doing,
00:32:39
◼
►
like to see their graph,
00:32:41
◼
►
like how much time they were spending in each app.
00:32:43
◼
►
Not that it was surprising.
00:32:45
◼
►
YouTube is really popular with both of them.
00:32:46
◼
►
Websites they're on, which was interesting
00:32:49
◼
►
and led to some interesting conversations.
00:32:51
◼
►
But you know, I'm not like pouring over
00:32:53
◼
►
their entire history or whatever.
00:32:55
◼
►
The screen time stuff, or the downtime stuff
00:32:58
◼
►
was very upsetting initially,
00:33:00
◼
►
because they didn't like the hardline nature of it,
00:33:03
◼
►
especially before they discovered the extension.
00:33:06
◼
►
They didn't like the idea that it precisely,
00:33:08
◼
►
you know, the hour ticks over or whatever,
00:33:10
◼
►
the precise time.
00:33:11
◼
►
There's no ifs, ands, or buts.
00:33:12
◼
►
Doesn't care if you're in the middle of something.
00:33:13
◼
►
Doesn't care if there's only one minute left
00:33:15
◼
►
on the show that you're watching.
00:33:16
◼
►
It just doesn't care.
00:33:18
◼
►
- So now, did you tell them beforehand
00:33:20
◼
►
that this was going to be a thing,
00:33:21
◼
►
or did you just turn it on and let them, you know, stew?
00:33:23
◼
►
- I told them about the feature of iOS 12
00:33:25
◼
►
when it was announced,
00:33:26
◼
►
and have talked to them about it previously,
00:33:28
◼
►
gleefully saying, "It's coming, it's coming."
00:33:30
◼
►
But I didn't like tell them the day.
00:33:32
◼
►
They knew I was upgrading all their devices.
00:33:33
◼
►
I didn't tell.
00:33:34
◼
►
I think I, anyway, I probably caught a couple of them
00:33:37
◼
►
by surprise, despite the fact that I was even talking about it
00:33:38
◼
►
where they didn't know exactly when it would come.
00:33:42
◼
►
- A couple of them?
00:33:42
◼
►
How many more are there?
00:33:44
◼
►
- You know, my son got annoyed by it.
00:33:47
◼
►
My daughter quickly adapted and shifted
00:33:49
◼
►
into just asking for extensions, and I don't know.
00:33:52
◼
►
I mean, they'll live with it.
00:33:54
◼
►
Like, you can, the tricky thing is,
00:33:55
◼
►
before they had the extension thing,
00:33:57
◼
►
my son is like, "I need to do my homework."
00:33:59
◼
►
I'm like, "Fine, I'll disable it for you."
00:34:00
◼
►
So I disabled it, but I didn't realize
00:34:01
◼
►
that I had permanently disabled.
00:34:03
◼
►
Like, I didn't know I was basically losing it.
00:34:05
◼
►
And so the next day, he's using his device past the deadline
00:34:07
◼
►
and we're like, "Did you turn it off for his thing?"
00:34:08
◼
►
So I turned it back on.
00:34:10
◼
►
So, but I think now we're just settling it.
00:34:12
◼
►
You know, you can adjust the time,
00:34:14
◼
►
and there are negotiations.
00:34:15
◼
►
It's not, it's not like a, it's, again,
00:34:18
◼
►
it's a thing that we were doing anyway.
00:34:19
◼
►
It's just an additional tool
00:34:21
◼
►
to make that interaction easier,
00:34:23
◼
►
because for whatever reason, the kids are more accepting
00:34:27
◼
►
that the computer is doing it to them
00:34:30
◼
►
than if I came and hard-lined said,
00:34:32
◼
►
"Oh, it's 9 p.m., like this."
00:34:34
◼
►
I would do that, and then it's an immediate negotiation
00:34:36
◼
►
and whining and annoyance or whatever,
00:34:38
◼
►
where if the screen just blanks over,
00:34:40
◼
►
then they have, it's on them to say,
00:34:41
◼
►
"Do I care enough about watching the last two minutes
00:34:43
◼
►
"of this thing to go down and whine and beg
00:34:46
◼
►
"or ask for an extension, right?
00:34:48
◼
►
"Or do I not care enough?"
00:34:50
◼
►
Like, they have to come to me and say, "I want,"
00:34:53
◼
►
you know, it puts the burden on them to do it.
00:34:56
◼
►
And it's just, the path leads to business,
00:34:57
◼
►
like, "Oh, I wasn't doing anything anyway.
00:34:59
◼
►
"I was just, you know, farting around on YouTube."
00:35:01
◼
►
And they'll pick up the video right where I left off
00:35:04
◼
►
tomorrow morning or whatever when I look at it.
00:35:06
◼
►
So, you know, I think that's mostly settled in fine.
00:35:10
◼
►
I do like seeing what they're doing.
00:35:12
◼
►
Again, screen time isn't the first time
00:35:13
◼
►
I'm seeing what they're doing.
00:35:14
◼
►
I always look what they're doing on their devices,
00:35:16
◼
►
which they hate, but it's part of being a kid,
00:35:19
◼
►
is your parents get to know what the heck you're doing
00:35:21
◼
►
on the computer all the time.
00:35:22
◼
►
What video are you watching?
00:35:23
◼
►
What websites are you going to do?
00:35:24
◼
►
What is this about?
00:35:25
◼
►
You've seen me, like, I'm always watching in real life.
00:35:30
◼
►
And I think they prefer this, because at least then
00:35:32
◼
►
I'm not over their shoulders.
00:35:34
◼
►
"Hey, what's that video about?"
00:35:35
◼
►
They hate when I do that, but that's parenting for you.
00:35:38
◼
►
You have to actually be aware of what they're doing.
00:35:41
◼
►
- You know, little Bertie's telling me
00:35:43
◼
►
that you're downplaying how perturbed your son was
00:35:46
◼
►
when this all landed.
00:35:48
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, I know, but like,
00:35:51
◼
►
I don't wanna throw any kids under the bus.
00:35:57
◼
►
It's tough being a kid, right?
00:36:00
◼
►
We all make adjustments.
00:36:02
◼
►
I ended up adjusting my son's time
00:36:04
◼
►
to be a little bit different than my daughter's
00:36:05
◼
►
because he's older, and to recognize the fact
00:36:07
◼
►
that he has less time for leisure
00:36:08
◼
►
because he does sports after school, right?
00:36:11
◼
►
And then he's gotta do homework, right?
00:36:12
◼
►
And so the adjustments have been made
00:36:14
◼
►
to make it reasonably equitable,
00:36:17
◼
►
so they can get in their minimum amount of YouTube time.
00:36:19
◼
►
Although, they really don't have a case.
00:36:21
◼
►
When I look at the YouTube totals for the week,
00:36:23
◼
►
and he's complaining on a weekend when downtime kicks in,
00:36:26
◼
►
and like, "Oh, you only watched six hours of YouTube today."
00:36:29
◼
►
Which watching YouTube is like a thing
00:36:31
◼
►
that your parents would say
00:36:32
◼
►
that you would like playing Nintendo or whatever.
00:36:34
◼
►
Watching YouTube is not a thing.
00:36:35
◼
►
He's watching video, right?
00:36:37
◼
►
If he's watching a television show,
00:36:38
◼
►
and he's watching a season of a television show
00:36:40
◼
►
because there's a season of a television show on YouTube,
00:36:42
◼
►
which is a thing, it's like,
00:36:43
◼
►
"Oh, you're watching quote, unquote, YouTube."
00:36:45
◼
►
It's just like watching TV or movies,
00:36:47
◼
►
or like what I did, binge watching a sci-fi series
00:36:51
◼
►
on Hulu or something.
00:36:52
◼
►
The fact that it's YouTube doesn't change the fact
00:36:54
◼
►
that he's essentially watching a TV show, right?
00:36:56
◼
►
So it's not that ridiculous.
00:36:59
◼
►
Although a lot of it is, of course,
00:37:00
◼
►
watching Fortnite videos,
00:37:01
◼
►
but I watch a lot of Destiny videos too,
00:37:03
◼
►
so I can understand.
00:37:04
◼
►
Anyway, it's mostly working itself out.
00:37:08
◼
►
But the big thing, like this topic changed.
00:37:12
◼
►
Like, "Yeah, so that's screen time for the kids.
00:37:13
◼
►
I'm finding it a valuable tool.
00:37:15
◼
►
There's, you know, it can't be the only tool,
00:37:17
◼
►
and you should be doing this anyway.
00:37:19
◼
►
It can be helpful.
00:37:20
◼
►
I'm glad this feature exists in iOS, Valve."
00:37:22
◼
►
But now this topic suddenly changes, unfortunately,
00:37:25
◼
►
for people who don't like hearing us talk about bugs,
00:37:27
◼
►
to a story about how screen time has decided
00:37:31
◼
►
that it's no longer interested
00:37:32
◼
►
in performing one of its major functions.
00:37:34
◼
►
So if you have a family in iCloud,
00:37:38
◼
►
which I suggest you do,
00:37:39
◼
►
because there's lots of cool features that come with it,
00:37:40
◼
►
and you make a family, you put the members of the family,
00:37:42
◼
►
and you put the kids in, and you have the adults,
00:37:46
◼
►
and I think only one person could be like the family manager,
00:37:49
◼
►
which just lets you add them.
00:37:50
◼
►
Anyway, when I go to screen time on any of my iOS devices,
00:37:56
◼
►
I see all my info, and then if I scroll down,
00:37:58
◼
►
there's a section called Family, and it shows my two kids.
00:38:02
◼
►
Not my wife, she's also a member of the family,
00:38:03
◼
►
but it doesn't show her.
00:38:04
◼
►
So I see my two kids,
00:38:05
◼
►
and they're in a little section on their own.
00:38:07
◼
►
They have a little, you know, rightward-facing arrow,
00:38:10
◼
►
and it used to be when I would tap on one of them,
00:38:13
◼
►
you see a screen that looks just like your screen,
00:38:15
◼
►
where it says, "Downtime app limits, allowed apps,
00:38:18
◼
►
content and privacy restrictions, include website data,"
00:38:21
◼
►
you know, all the same things that you see on your own,
00:38:23
◼
►
and that's where you can set what the downtime is
00:38:24
◼
►
for that kid, what the app limits are,
00:38:26
◼
►
which is nice.
00:38:27
◼
►
I excluded apps like, you know, by default,
00:38:29
◼
►
like maps and messages are excluded.
00:38:31
◼
►
I excluded like FaceTime, and I excluded,
00:38:33
◼
►
I excluded a whole bunch of things that are reasonable.
00:38:34
◼
►
Basically, if I could blacklist,
00:38:37
◼
►
that all it has to do with blacklist YouTube,
00:38:38
◼
►
and I basically destroy their devices,
00:38:40
◼
►
as far as they're concerned, right?
00:38:43
◼
►
Yeah, and the content and privacy restrictions,
00:38:45
◼
►
you can not let them, you know, rent, you know,
00:38:48
◼
►
rated R movies, although for a longest time,
00:38:51
◼
►
when you have a family, if a kid wants to buy something,
00:38:54
◼
►
they can't buy anything.
00:38:55
◼
►
They can't even download free stuff
00:38:57
◼
►
without it sending a notification
00:38:58
◼
►
to one or both of the parents' accounts,
00:39:01
◼
►
and saying, you know, "Kate wants to watch the movie,"
00:39:04
◼
►
whatever, and you can see information about the movie,
00:39:06
◼
►
you can approve or deny.
00:39:07
◼
►
That feature's been there for a while.
00:39:08
◼
►
It's not a screen time thing,
00:39:09
◼
►
but that's definitely a cool thing.
00:39:10
◼
►
If parents don't know about it, you should definitely,
00:39:12
◼
►
there's another reason to put people into a family.
00:39:13
◼
►
You definitely enable that.
00:39:14
◼
►
You basically know that there's no way
00:39:15
◼
►
your kids can download anything onto their devices
00:39:18
◼
►
without you approving it.
00:39:19
◼
►
Again, even if it's a free app,
00:39:21
◼
►
especially if it's a free app,
00:39:22
◼
►
'cause I like these free-to-play games.
00:39:24
◼
►
Anyway, at the top, it says screen time,
00:39:26
◼
►
and it's got an all devices thing,
00:39:28
◼
►
because they both have phones and iPads at this point.
00:39:31
◼
►
And in theory, if you tap on all devices,
00:39:33
◼
►
you see it today and last seven days,
00:39:35
◼
►
there should be a bunch of graphs there,
00:39:36
◼
►
just like there are for us.
00:39:38
◼
►
But instead, what I see is, underneath all devices,
00:39:40
◼
►
it says, "As this device is used,
00:39:42
◼
►
screen time will be reported here."
00:39:43
◼
►
And if you tap into all devices,
00:39:46
◼
►
today says nothing and last seven days says nothing.
00:39:48
◼
►
This worked fine for the first two weeks of iOS 12,
00:39:51
◼
►
and then for the past two weeks or so,
00:39:54
◼
►
there's just no data.
00:39:56
◼
►
As this device is used, screen time will be reported here.
00:39:58
◼
►
I assure you, this device is being used.
00:40:00
◼
►
No, they have not disabled screen timeline devices.
00:40:02
◼
►
Their devices are all set up fine.
00:40:04
◼
►
You can look on their devices and see the info.
00:40:06
◼
►
They're all set up to share with iCloud, like everything.
00:40:08
◼
►
All the settings are correct.
00:40:10
◼
►
Nothing is disabled.
00:40:10
◼
►
They haven't somehow circumvented it or whatever,
00:40:12
◼
►
just both of them one day just disappeared.
00:40:15
◼
►
So now, this feature that used to work
00:40:17
◼
►
is now entirely non-functional.
00:40:19
◼
►
I can't see any screen time information for any of my kids
00:40:22
◼
►
anymore, despite it working for multiple weeks.
00:40:25
◼
►
So that kind of annoys me because it's one of those things
00:40:27
◼
►
like, well, what do you do?
00:40:28
◼
►
I pull the refresh, I tap, I turn screen time on,
00:40:30
◼
►
turn screen time off.
00:40:32
◼
►
I don't even know what to do.
00:40:34
◼
►
I tried all the things.
00:40:36
◼
►
I'm not gonna delete the family and then recreate it
00:40:39
◼
►
'cause that'll destroy a million things.
00:40:41
◼
►
So I'm hoping the dot update will fix this.
00:40:44
◼
►
Well, this is pretty frustrating that a headlining feature
00:40:46
◼
►
that I was actually enjoying decided to just stop working
00:40:50
◼
►
and not entirely, 'cause again, I can go to their devices
00:40:54
◼
►
and look it up on each one of their devices,
00:40:55
◼
►
but the whole point of this is as the family adult
00:40:59
◼
►
or whatever, I should be able to look at it in my devices
00:41:02
◼
►
and they're all listed here.
00:41:03
◼
►
I just can't see any information about them.
00:41:04
◼
►
So I find this very frustrating, but aside from the bugs,
00:41:08
◼
►
I suggest all parents, A, look into making a family
00:41:13
◼
►
with your kids, I forget about the process.
00:41:17
◼
►
It used to be worse than it is now,
00:41:18
◼
►
but kids can have their own Apple IDs,
00:41:22
◼
►
which is what I suggest.
00:41:23
◼
►
Don't try to share one amongst the whole family.
00:41:24
◼
►
Everyone in the family should have their own Apple ID.
00:41:26
◼
►
There's a kid's Apple ID.
00:41:27
◼
►
You can make a family.
00:41:28
◼
►
You can say which are the kids and which are the adults.
00:41:30
◼
►
And the kids, you can require your approval
00:41:33
◼
►
to make purchases.
00:41:34
◼
►
And in theory, you could see their screen time information.
00:41:37
◼
►
And these are all great tools for parents
00:41:39
◼
►
and I'm glad Apple's added them.
00:41:41
◼
►
I just want them to go back to working.
00:41:44
◼
►
- I don't think you're alone in this either.
00:41:45
◼
►
We heard from a lot of our friends who did this
00:41:46
◼
►
during the iOS 12 beta that apparently,
00:41:49
◼
►
it seemed like screen time,
00:41:51
◼
►
like whether it tracked data for you or not,
00:41:53
◼
►
and especially whether it synced that data,
00:41:55
◼
►
was seemingly very rough and buggy during the beta.
00:41:58
◼
►
And so it's possible they just haven't ironed that out yet.
00:42:01
◼
►
So I would keep an eye on it and hopefully they will
00:42:04
◼
►
get it all worked out in the next couple of point releases.
00:42:07
◼
►
- Yeah, I heard that too during the betas,
00:42:08
◼
►
which I ran iOS 12 since like the second beta on my iPad.
00:42:12
◼
►
And I heard people saying, oh, screen time is fine,
00:42:15
◼
►
except like they were just doing for themselves,
00:42:16
◼
►
except like every once in a while with a new beta,
00:42:18
◼
►
it just totally wipes all my screen time data.
00:42:20
◼
►
I'm like, well, fine, it's a beta,
00:42:21
◼
►
like they'll wipe the data every once in a while,
00:42:22
◼
►
but surely once the release one comes, they won't do that.
00:42:26
◼
►
This seems like a different class of bug
00:42:27
◼
►
in that the data is all still being collected.
00:42:30
◼
►
I just can't see it from my phone,
00:42:32
◼
►
despite there being sections for their stuff.
00:42:33
◼
►
So yeah, I hope they work this out
00:42:35
◼
►
'cause otherwise it's a pretty nice feature.
00:42:37
◼
►
Like the UI was pretty straightforward,
00:42:39
◼
►
which is actually a challenge
00:42:40
◼
►
because it is a fairly complicated
00:42:43
◼
►
and setting filled thing to do,
00:42:46
◼
►
and they've managed to organize it
00:42:47
◼
►
in a way that I didn't, you know, I didn't have to,
00:42:49
◼
►
it was pretty obvious to me what was going on,
00:42:52
◼
►
despite all the screens kind of looking similar
00:42:53
◼
►
and everything like that.
00:42:54
◼
►
So it, you know, it's a lot of buttons
00:42:58
◼
►
and a lot of settings and a lot of semantics
00:42:59
◼
►
and a lot of information
00:43:00
◼
►
that they managed to organize in a nice way.
00:43:02
◼
►
Just need to make it work.
00:43:04
◼
►
- One of these days,
00:43:05
◼
►
I don't think we have time for today,
00:43:06
◼
►
I'd like you to sell me on doing this iCloud family thing,
00:43:10
◼
►
- I just did, I just sold you on it.
00:43:12
◼
►
- Oh, geez, do it.
00:43:13
◼
►
- Well, I don't know, man.
00:43:15
◼
►
Well, so, okay, fine, I guess we're just gonna
00:43:17
◼
►
pull on the thread right now.
00:43:18
◼
►
- Number one, you share purchases.
00:43:19
◼
►
Number two, you have like, I think you share iCloud storage.
00:43:23
◼
►
Yeah, you do as of a couple of years ago.
00:43:25
◼
►
- Consolidate to a single bill.
00:43:27
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, you single bill,
00:43:28
◼
►
shared iCloud storage, shared purchases,
00:43:30
◼
►
although not in-app purchases,
00:43:32
◼
►
I believe those are still separate.
00:43:33
◼
►
- Depends on the app.
00:43:34
◼
►
- Right, so certain types aren't,
00:43:36
◼
►
but for the most part you're sharing most purchases,
00:43:38
◼
►
you're sharing media purchases,
00:43:40
◼
►
and also you have all these parental control things,
00:43:43
◼
►
so you can do the thing where your kid can ask for a game
00:43:46
◼
►
and you can approve it and stuff like that.
00:43:48
◼
►
It's really nice, I strongly,
00:43:50
◼
►
and as far as I can tell, we set it up for our family,
00:43:53
◼
►
I think about a year after it launched,
00:43:54
◼
►
so like a few years back,
00:43:56
◼
►
as far as I can tell, there's no downsides.
00:43:57
◼
►
I don't think anything has gone wrong
00:43:59
◼
►
or is worse off since we set it up, it's wonderful.
00:44:03
◼
►
- You also get automatic location sharing,
00:44:05
◼
►
and you can prevent the kids from turning off location sharing
00:44:08
◼
►
like there's all sorts of controls and conveniences
00:44:11
◼
►
because if you have a family like,
00:44:13
◼
►
oh, we all share our location with each other
00:44:15
◼
►
in perpetuity, but if you're all in the same family,
00:44:17
◼
►
you don't even have to set that up,
00:44:18
◼
►
just they show up and you're find my friends
00:44:20
◼
►
'cause they're part of your family all the time.
00:44:22
◼
►
- Interesting, yeah, the way we've had it
00:44:24
◼
►
and have run this way since both of us got iPhones,
00:44:26
◼
►
and remember, Declan has an iPad
00:44:29
◼
►
that's kind of dedicated to him,
00:44:30
◼
►
but basically it's just a Daniel Tiger device.
00:44:32
◼
►
Like he almost never uses it outside of long car trips,
00:44:35
◼
►
and basically the only thing he uses on it is Plex,
00:44:38
◼
►
so this isn't really relevant in traditional.
00:44:40
◼
►
- He's your son, all right.
00:44:41
◼
►
- Yeah, right, exactly.
00:44:42
◼
►
- Of course he's in Plex.
00:44:44
◼
►
- Of course he is.
00:44:44
◼
►
- It'll be relevant faster than you think it will.
00:44:47
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, I agree,
00:44:48
◼
►
and so this is really today only about Aaron and me,
00:44:51
◼
►
and the way we've run it is the trick
00:44:52
◼
►
that a lot of people discovered by accident,
00:44:54
◼
►
which was different iCloud accounts
00:44:56
◼
►
with the same Apple Store account,
00:44:58
◼
►
so we're using my Apple Store account,
00:45:00
◼
►
but different iCloud accounts,
00:45:02
◼
►
and to be honest, that's generally worked pretty well for us,
00:45:04
◼
►
but I know I'm gonna have to pull this,
00:45:07
◼
►
rip this Band-Aid off sooner rather than later,
00:45:09
◼
►
to your point, Jon,
00:45:10
◼
►
so it's not ruinous to do the switch from--
00:45:13
◼
►
- Yeah, even just for you and Aaron,
00:45:15
◼
►
you don't lose anything by doing this,
00:45:17
◼
►
because if you're in the same family,
00:45:18
◼
►
she can still use all of your purchases.
00:45:22
◼
►
Again, plus or minus the in-app purchases,
00:45:24
◼
►
I don't know how many of those you have,
00:45:25
◼
►
and it might be annoying to have to repurchase them
00:45:27
◼
►
or whatever, but the sooner you cleanly separate
00:45:30
◼
►
into your own Apple IDs, the simpler things become,
00:45:34
◼
►
I feel like, and I was also worried about,
00:45:38
◼
►
oh, am I gonna have to rebuy anything,
00:45:39
◼
►
but in practice, I don't think we had to rebuy anything,
00:45:42
◼
►
maybe it's 'cause we don't do many in-app purchases,
00:45:43
◼
►
but yeah, separating into separate IDs across everything,
00:45:48
◼
►
but being in the same family gives you most of the benefits
00:45:51
◼
►
and it's just cleaner, and that part, all that stuff,
00:45:54
◼
►
the purchase approval and everything,
00:45:55
◼
►
that's, again, it's not part of screen time,
00:45:56
◼
►
that stuff isn't really buggy.
00:45:58
◼
►
It was buggy in the beginning,
00:46:00
◼
►
but it's been around for years now,
00:46:01
◼
►
so most of the kinks are worked out,
00:46:03
◼
►
or if they're not worked out, occasionally you get
00:46:06
◼
►
some weirdness on the Mac where you can see
00:46:08
◼
►
the same family stuff, but occasionally it gets
00:46:11
◼
►
a little fidgety over there.
00:46:14
◼
►
Usually you can solve it just by signing out
00:46:16
◼
►
and back into iCloud, I don't know, it's the same thing.
00:46:19
◼
►
Yeah, but that's true of any stuff.
00:46:22
◼
►
I'd imagine this, I don't think I mentioned this
00:46:24
◼
►
on the show, but my contacts stuff is back to not syncing.
00:46:29
◼
►
It's really annoying me.
00:46:31
◼
►
- I went through, I was looking at,
00:46:33
◼
►
I was on the Mac for whatever reason,
00:46:34
◼
►
I'm like, oh, I have all these, here's what it was,
00:46:37
◼
►
it was like after Mike's wedding,
00:46:40
◼
►
I had all these pictures of people I knew, computer people,
00:46:44
◼
►
like you guys and Mike and all this,
00:46:46
◼
►
I had recent photos of them.
00:46:48
◼
►
- I love that we're computer people.
00:46:49
◼
►
- And so I needed to update the contact pictures,
00:46:52
◼
►
because previously I had for Mike,
00:46:54
◼
►
I had like a, I don't know where I got the picture from,
00:46:56
◼
►
I probably just Googled for his name and pulled the picture,
00:46:58
◼
►
or maybe I used like his Twitter avatar or something,
00:47:00
◼
►
but they were old, they were old pictures,
00:47:01
◼
►
and here I had pictures that I'd taken
00:47:03
◼
►
that I liked of these people,
00:47:04
◼
►
I'm gonna replace their contact pictures
00:47:05
◼
►
so they show up nicely in my messages list or whatever.
00:47:08
◼
►
And so I go and I paste, I figure out,
00:47:10
◼
►
using the Mac contacts app, what it wants me to do,
00:47:13
◼
►
get stupid image in there,
00:47:13
◼
►
because you used to be able to just drag it,
00:47:15
◼
►
but now you have to do some other dance.
00:47:16
◼
►
And anyway, I get the image in there,
00:47:18
◼
►
I crop it to the right size, I blah, blah, blah,
00:47:21
◼
►
and I do this for like four or five contacts.
00:47:24
◼
►
I think I might've updated both of yours, I forget.
00:47:27
◼
►
Marco's got his ancient picture,
00:47:28
◼
►
but he basically looks the same.
00:47:29
◼
►
So I know I did update Marco's,
00:47:30
◼
►
he's got a beardy Marco now.
00:47:31
◼
►
I got a beardy Marco.
00:47:32
◼
►
- Yeah, I look totally different.
00:47:34
◼
►
- Well, but it's just the thing,
00:47:35
◼
►
like the reason I don't remember this
00:47:37
◼
►
is because I did all this work on the Mac,
00:47:39
◼
►
and then I noticed the next day,
00:47:41
◼
►
none of that stuff was on my phone or my iPad.
00:47:44
◼
►
Like what the hell?
00:47:44
◼
►
Like I spent all that time doing these pictures.
00:47:46
◼
►
And so then I'm going back to the Mac
00:47:49
◼
►
and like turning off contact syncing and turning it back on
00:47:52
◼
►
and just trying to like do anything I can.
00:47:53
◼
►
It's just, I cannot get anything I do on my Mac
00:47:56
◼
►
to appear on any of my iOS devices
00:47:58
◼
►
or on any of my other Macs.
00:48:00
◼
►
I haven't tried it in Mojave yet,
00:48:03
◼
►
but it's something used to frustrate me.
00:48:06
◼
►
Like there's like nothing I can do.
00:48:07
◼
►
There's no like, please sync it now.
00:48:09
◼
►
Like see this contact image?
00:48:11
◼
►
I'm holding my phone next to the screen.
00:48:12
◼
►
It's the same contact.
00:48:13
◼
►
It has the different image, it's the old one.
00:48:15
◼
►
Same thing with it changing any other contact info,
00:48:17
◼
►
like adding a new email address or phone number.
00:48:20
◼
►
It's very, very frustrating.
00:48:22
◼
►
And I felt like, how are we past this now?
00:48:24
◼
►
Can't we get contacts to sync successfully?
00:48:26
◼
►
Every once in a while, my computer just says no.
00:48:30
◼
►
- Maybe it's 'cause it's too old.
00:48:31
◼
►
- Hey, you should get a new one.
00:48:32
◼
►
No, this is my wife's computer.
00:48:33
◼
►
It's a 5K iMac running Mojave.
00:48:34
◼
►
Everything is latest, latest, everything.
00:48:36
◼
►
It's not like there's no excuse.
00:48:38
◼
►
No, sync is hard.
00:48:39
◼
►
That's a big excuse.
00:48:40
◼
►
Sync is really hard.
00:48:41
◼
►
I just want something to happen.
00:48:43
◼
►
I want to do something on my Mac
00:48:45
◼
►
and see something happen elsewhere.
00:48:46
◼
►
Put it in a duplicate contact.
00:48:47
◼
►
I don't care.
00:48:48
◼
►
I just want to see something happen to acknowledge.
00:48:50
◼
►
I'm doing, especially I'd spent so long,
00:48:52
◼
►
like carefully finding all the images and cropping them
00:48:55
◼
►
and being careful not that they're too big as it chokes
00:48:57
◼
►
if you just like take a giant, you know,
00:48:59
◼
►
20 something megapixel image,
00:49:00
◼
►
chuck it on the thing and try to crop it to the head.
00:49:02
◼
►
It freaks out, right?
00:49:03
◼
►
So I'm making small versions of things.
00:49:05
◼
►
In the end, because I had done it once and it had annoyed me,
00:49:08
◼
►
the second time I did it, I made a little folder
00:49:10
◼
►
that I call contact photos.
00:49:12
◼
►
And I put the contact photos suitable for dragging
00:49:15
◼
►
into contacts in that folder.
00:49:16
◼
►
And then I put it in my Dropbox.
00:49:18
◼
►
So the 900 other times I try to do this,
00:49:20
◼
►
I have a ready-made bin of all your heads.
00:49:25
◼
►
Throw on the stuff.
00:49:27
◼
►
Let me look at my, I haven't looked lately.
00:49:28
◼
►
This was actually like, you know,
00:49:29
◼
►
it was actually a primo hobby,
00:49:30
◼
►
but I haven't looked lately to see
00:49:33
◼
►
what my contact situation is like.
00:49:35
◼
►
Is Marco beardy?
00:49:37
◼
►
That is the question.
00:49:38
◼
►
Hey, I got beardy Marco.
00:49:41
◼
►
I think it's because I did it on my phone
00:49:42
◼
►
as one of my ninth or 10th times.
00:49:45
◼
►
Yep, I think I used the one that you have
00:49:47
◼
►
for your Twitter avatar picture maybe.
00:49:49
◼
►
- You took that picture.
00:49:50
◼
►
- I took all these pictures.
00:49:51
◼
►
It's from my photo library.
00:49:52
◼
►
But yeah, I was pulling pictures from my photo library.
00:49:56
◼
►
I think I just happened to pick the same one
00:49:57
◼
►
that you picked from like WWC or whatever.
00:49:59
◼
►
Yeah, it's frustrating.
00:50:02
◼
►
And the main reason I'm doing that though,
00:50:04
◼
►
is because you ever get that thing where like,
00:50:07
◼
►
I don't know if you guys run messages on your Mac a lot,
00:50:09
◼
►
but I do, 'cause you know, guy.
00:50:12
◼
►
And the window just sits there.
00:50:14
◼
►
It's just sitting in the background
00:50:15
◼
►
and every once in a while you look at the window
00:50:17
◼
►
and along the left sidebar of the thing,
00:50:19
◼
►
you'll see the avatar image
00:50:22
◼
►
of all the people you're talking to.
00:50:23
◼
►
Or the last five or 10,
00:50:25
◼
►
or depending on the size of your window,
00:50:27
◼
►
the people you talk to.
00:50:28
◼
►
And first of all, if one of them has no icon,
00:50:30
◼
►
they're just like the silhouette, that looks bad.
00:50:32
◼
►
You're like, oh, that person needs an icon.
00:50:33
◼
►
Like, why doesn't that person have an icon?
00:50:35
◼
►
I've known that person for 20 years.
00:50:36
◼
►
They have no icon, that's bad.
00:50:39
◼
►
And second of all, if you look at it
00:50:41
◼
►
and it's like a picture of somebody,
00:50:42
◼
►
it's like a bad blurry picture.
00:50:44
◼
►
It's like 64 by 64 pixel image stretched out
00:50:47
◼
►
and looking all gross.
00:50:48
◼
►
It's like their aim icon from 1993 or something.
00:50:51
◼
►
You're like, I need to fix that.
00:50:53
◼
►
And it uses the contact images.
00:50:54
◼
►
So then you go to their contact and you add a picture.
00:50:56
◼
►
And what you want is a messages list that you look at
00:50:58
◼
►
and you're like, yeah, I recognize all those people.
00:51:00
◼
►
And those are the people I talk to and they look nice.
00:51:03
◼
►
And you know, so that's what motivates this.
00:51:07
◼
►
My anal retentiveness to have a,
00:51:10
◼
►
to wanna have a pleasing sidebar,
00:51:13
◼
►
partially inspired probably by like all my screenshotting
00:51:15
◼
►
and OS 10 reviews, that you would never take a screenshot
00:51:18
◼
►
where the sidebar didn't have like beautiful
00:51:20
◼
►
professional photos of everyone you communicate with.
00:51:23
◼
►
- And there's no like embarrassing message.
00:51:25
◼
►
That's the thing that always about messages.
00:51:27
◼
►
Next to the avatar, it shows the name and the date.
00:51:30
◼
►
And then it shows the last line of text
00:51:33
◼
►
that was in that conversation.
00:51:35
◼
►
But the last line of text may not have been spoken
00:51:37
◼
►
by the person whose image is there.
00:51:39
◼
►
It may have been the last line you sent to them.
00:51:43
◼
►
- And so sometimes it makes it look like, you know,
00:51:45
◼
►
your wife is saying something that you said
00:51:48
◼
►
because it's her image next to the last sentence
00:51:51
◼
►
you wrote to her.
00:51:52
◼
►
So it's still not a great interface.
00:51:54
◼
►
Anyway, everyone's got pictures of my stuff.
00:51:55
◼
►
- Well, but no, but you can collapse that though.
00:51:57
◼
►
- You can get rid of it.
00:51:58
◼
►
Yeah, you can get rid of the whole sidebar, but like.
00:52:00
◼
►
- No, no, no, you can get to go to just icons.
00:52:02
◼
►
So it's just heads.
00:52:04
◼
►
- Yeah, what kind of monster leaves the like one line
00:52:06
◼
►
of most recently said?
00:52:07
◼
►
No, no, no, no, no.
00:52:08
◼
►
- Sometimes that's all I can see in the window
00:52:10
◼
►
and I will only be able to see that
00:52:11
◼
►
when the last line is from them,
00:52:12
◼
►
I think it's relevant information.
00:52:13
◼
►
And I also want to see the date.
00:52:15
◼
►
- That's what I'm saying.
00:52:16
◼
►
There's two modes of the sidebar.
00:52:18
◼
►
There's show me the last line in addition to their avatar
00:52:21
◼
►
and just the avatars.
00:52:23
◼
►
- Really, I'm always in last line, like a chump mode.
00:52:26
◼
►
- Yeah, no, that is like a chump mode.
00:52:27
◼
►
You just, in the divider between the sidebar
00:52:31
◼
►
and the actual messages pane,
00:52:33
◼
►
slide that bad boy to the left.
00:52:34
◼
►
- Yeah, but I think it's sort of the dates too.
00:52:36
◼
►
I want to see the last line when it's from them.
00:52:38
◼
►
It reminds me of the context of the conversation.
00:52:40
◼
►
- Oh, that's weird.
00:52:41
◼
►
No, I don't like, and it has their name too.
00:52:43
◼
►
- Yeah. - Nah, screw that.
00:52:44
◼
►
- No, this is the way to go.
00:52:46
◼
►
- How am I going to know
00:52:47
◼
►
what two factor verification looks like?
00:52:49
◼
►
This is another context tip
00:52:50
◼
►
while we're in the context tip section of the thing.
00:52:52
◼
►
Every time you get a two factor thing,
00:52:55
◼
►
which everyone's saying you shouldn't do
00:52:56
◼
►
over SMS anymore anyway, but anyway,
00:52:57
◼
►
if you still have some services
00:52:58
◼
►
where you're getting two factor or SMS,
00:53:01
◼
►
every time you get one of those,
00:53:03
◼
►
add that phone number to a single contact
00:53:04
◼
►
that you call two factor verification or something similar.
00:53:07
◼
►
So then when it comes in, you don't see like,
00:53:09
◼
►
what is this random text from?
00:53:10
◼
►
Oh, it's a two factor thing.
00:53:11
◼
►
It'll come in as two factor verification.
00:53:13
◼
►
And it's not a random number every time.
00:53:15
◼
►
After you've added like the five or six common numbers
00:53:17
◼
►
that you get stuff from, that's it.
00:53:21
◼
►
Like, you know.
00:53:22
◼
►
- That's a really good idea.
00:53:24
◼
►
- It's just like saying,
00:53:25
◼
►
I haven't gotten to the point where I've given it an icon,
00:53:27
◼
►
but it's only like, how many icons are Mr. Two Factor?
00:53:33
◼
►
One, two, three, four, five.
00:53:34
◼
►
Only five phone numbers covers everything.
00:53:37
◼
►
Granted, I'm trying to move away from SMS for a two factor,
00:53:40
◼
►
but many services, it's still the only thing they offer.
00:53:43
◼
►
Sony, PlayStation.
00:53:45
◼
►
- Well, you know, Sony is really known
00:53:46
◼
►
for their incredible online security.
00:53:48
◼
►
- That's why I'm able two factor.
00:53:50
◼
►
Like, my PlayStation account is one of the accounts
00:53:54
◼
►
I care the most about, because someone got into there
00:53:56
◼
►
and like deleted all my Destiny characters or whatever.
00:53:59
◼
►
That would be more disastrous than deleting all of my photos
00:54:04
◼
►
because I have backups of the photos.
00:54:06
◼
►
- You'd rather have somebody come in
00:54:07
◼
►
and delete all your family pictures than your Destiny account.
00:54:09
◼
►
- Because I have a hundred backups of those.
00:54:11
◼
►
How many backups do I have of my PlayStation data?
00:54:15
◼
►
It's like that thing I tweeted the picture of before
00:54:17
◼
►
that Nintendo finally has an online backup of Switch data.
00:54:20
◼
►
And it's like, oh, finally,
00:54:21
◼
►
because like my data was tied to my specific Switch.
00:54:24
◼
►
And if I dropped it and cracked it in half, that's it.
00:54:28
◼
►
Like I said, I'd send it away to Nintendo.
00:54:29
◼
►
Like, oh, well, we'll just give you a new one.
00:54:30
◼
►
What about my saved data?
00:54:33
◼
►
- I gotta do that.
00:54:33
◼
►
- So now I have an online backup of that too.
00:54:35
◼
►
Just one though.
00:54:36
◼
►
We are sponsored this week by Molekule,
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Now HEPA filters have served allergy
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and asthma sufferer as well.
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They were invented in the 1940s
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and they were great for the time,
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but we have better technology now.
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This is nanotechnology that can eliminate allergens, mold,
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And this makes a meaningful impact
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for asthma and allergy sufferers.
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They did a study of 49 allergy sufferers
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at the American College of Asthma, Allergy, and Immunology.
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And Molekule's technology provided dramatic,
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These results have transformed lifelong allergy
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One customer even said she was able to breathe
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through her nose for the first time in 15 years.
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And they sent me one of these.
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It's really, it's a very nice physical unit.
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They have a nice app to control it.
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It looks like a big aluminum cylinder almost.
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It's really nice.
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◼
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It looks almost like an Apple product, really.
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◼
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It's very well designed, easy to use, has a nice app.
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And their claims have been extensively tested
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by third parties and verified by labs
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like the University of Minnesota
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Particle Calibration Laboratory
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◼
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and University of South Florida
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Center for Biological Defense.
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This is the real deal.
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See for yourself at Molekule.com.
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So like the word molecule, but with a K instead of a C.
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And for $75 off your first order, use code ATP at checkout.
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So once again, that's Molekule with a K.com
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and code ATP for $75 off your first order.
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Thank you to Molekule for sponsoring our show.
00:56:11
◼
►
(upbeat music)
00:56:14
◼
►
- I have a hopefully quickie about a new Apple feature
00:56:17
◼
►
that mostly works well and I really love
00:56:19
◼
►
even though I thought it was both hilarious and stupid
00:56:22
◼
►
when I saw it during the keynote.
00:56:23
◼
►
And that is Apple Watch walkie talkie mode.
00:56:26
◼
►
I did not understand the point to this
00:56:28
◼
►
up until a couple of days ago.
00:56:30
◼
►
And now it's like my new favorite thing.
00:56:32
◼
►
And this is if you have two people with an Apple Watch
00:56:35
◼
►
on watchOS 5, there is a new app called walkie talkie.
00:56:40
◼
►
And you can go into that app and you can invite people
00:56:43
◼
►
to join walkie talkie mode with you.
00:56:46
◼
►
And then like the Hellscape was that was the late 90s
00:56:50
◼
►
and next tell push to talk phones,
00:56:52
◼
►
which were very popular in the Northeast.
00:56:54
◼
►
I don't know if they were popular anywhere else.
00:56:56
◼
►
But you can just drop in on somebody's world
00:56:58
◼
►
and send them a, well, talk to them.
00:57:00
◼
►
Like you actually broadcast a verbal message
00:57:03
◼
►
from their wrist, which sounds freaking terrible.
00:57:07
◼
►
But if you say have a partner that you live with
00:57:11
◼
►
and if you say have one or more children
00:57:14
◼
►
that you live with, it is amazing.
00:57:16
◼
►
Because in the past, I would grab my phone
00:57:20
◼
►
and type out a message to Aaron like,
00:57:21
◼
►
hey, can you bring me a bottle?
00:57:23
◼
►
Or hey, can you help me do this?
00:57:25
◼
►
Or hey, Declan is really hungry.
00:57:28
◼
►
What did you give him for snack earlier
00:57:29
◼
►
so I don't give him the same thing again
00:57:31
◼
►
or whatever the case may be?
00:57:32
◼
►
And now I can just bloop on my watch
00:57:35
◼
►
and we can get through this conversation so much quicker,
00:57:37
◼
►
no typing involved.
00:57:39
◼
►
- I'm so glad I don't have this
00:57:40
◼
►
because all I would hear is,
00:57:41
◼
►
dad, answer the request on your phone.
00:57:45
◼
►
I just wanna hear now, but at least it's yelled
00:57:46
◼
►
from upstairs instead of actually coming out of my wrist.
00:57:49
◼
►
Approve my request.
00:57:50
◼
►
- You don't have to add your children as people.
00:57:53
◼
►
- Come out of your drawer, let's be honest.
00:57:55
◼
►
- Yeah, that's true too.
00:57:56
◼
►
It would absolutely come out of your drawer.
00:57:57
◼
►
I think that for most use cases,
00:58:00
◼
►
like when we all looked at the,
00:58:02
◼
►
what do they call it, digital touch?
00:58:05
◼
►
When the watch first came out and everyone was like,
00:58:07
◼
►
dudes, people, Apple people.
00:58:09
◼
►
No, no, no, no, no, no.
00:58:11
◼
►
That's not what we want.
00:58:12
◼
►
And generally speaking, I think that's applicable
00:58:14
◼
►
for this walkie talkie mode, but holy crap,
00:58:16
◼
►
to get Aaron and I to have a quick two second conversation,
00:58:20
◼
►
typically involving some child related issue,
00:58:22
◼
►
it is great and I love it.
00:58:24
◼
►
And I just wanted to put a little word out for everyone
00:58:28
◼
►
because we tried it kind of on a whim
00:58:30
◼
►
when we were at the beach over the weekend
00:58:32
◼
►
and it was great.
00:58:33
◼
►
It worked really, really well
00:58:34
◼
►
and I'm really, really happy about it.
00:58:36
◼
►
So if you have a similar situation,
00:58:38
◼
►
you should give it a shot.
00:58:39
◼
►
- I feel you're missing the simple joy
00:58:40
◼
►
of yelling across the house to each other.
00:58:42
◼
►
- Well, no, and we do that from time to time,
00:58:45
◼
►
but oftentimes if we're gonna do this walkie talkie thing,
00:58:47
◼
►
it's because one of us is upstairs
00:58:48
◼
►
and the other downstairs.
00:58:49
◼
►
- Yeah, it's a big part of being a family
00:58:51
◼
►
is yelling across floors of a house.
00:58:53
◼
►
- Yeah, exactly.
00:58:54
◼
►
And I mean, our house is not particularly big.
00:58:56
◼
►
It's an at best average size house,
00:58:58
◼
►
but it's big enough that yelling between floors
00:59:02
◼
►
is not particularly fun nor conducive.
00:59:04
◼
►
And we only have one echo in the house,
00:59:06
◼
►
so we can't do any sort of like,
00:59:07
◼
►
what does that drop in or whatever it's called.
00:59:10
◼
►
So this is the best thing that we have available to us.
00:59:13
◼
►
And it's funny because it's kind of like coming full circle.
00:59:16
◼
►
I remember as a kid, my family built a house,
00:59:20
◼
►
gosh, how old was I?
00:59:22
◼
►
Maybe eight or 10 or something like that.
00:59:24
◼
►
And it had one of those in-home intercom systems,
00:59:26
◼
►
which were super popular in the day.
00:59:27
◼
►
- Those were so fancy.
00:59:29
◼
►
- They were so cool.
00:59:30
◼
►
- I was just about to mention this.
00:59:31
◼
►
So I was gonna mention it
00:59:33
◼
►
in a very unflattering context though.
00:59:35
◼
►
- Well, it was so cool, but they were pieces of trash,
00:59:39
◼
►
but it was amazing 'cause you could play FM radio
00:59:41
◼
►
throughout the house 'cause that's what people wanted.
00:59:43
◼
►
But anyway, I just thought we had made it as a family.
00:59:46
◼
►
And again, our house was not particularly large.
00:59:48
◼
►
It was an average sized home, but we built it
00:59:50
◼
►
and we had our little intercom system.
00:59:53
◼
►
And I think we also had a urinal in the basement,
00:59:55
◼
►
which was amazing, but that's a story for another day.
00:59:58
◼
►
- First time anybody's ever said a urinal's amazing.
01:00:01
◼
►
- I'm telling you, put one in your house
01:00:02
◼
►
and see what you think.
01:00:03
◼
►
- They are amazing. - See what you think.
01:00:05
◼
►
But yeah, so having that intercom
01:00:06
◼
►
we thought was the coolest thing in the world.
01:00:08
◼
►
And it lasted like a month.
01:00:10
◼
►
- I love that you had the air.
01:00:12
◼
►
It's like, that was like the coolest thing in the world
01:00:14
◼
►
in like 1992 or something.
01:00:15
◼
►
And like never--
01:00:16
◼
►
- It's exactly what I'm talking about.
01:00:18
◼
►
- So it's not a '90s thing, it's an '80s thing.
01:00:20
◼
►
- So the thing that's relevant to my life
01:00:23
◼
►
that I was gonna say about that
01:00:24
◼
►
before Casey even began that story
01:00:25
◼
►
was like the house that we run on Long Island
01:00:27
◼
►
was renovated in the '80s.
01:00:29
◼
►
So Long Island house renovated in the '80s by rich people.
01:00:33
◼
►
So it has, of course, it has an in-home intercom.
01:00:36
◼
►
It also has central vacuum and it also has--
01:00:38
◼
►
- Yes, I was gonna mention central vacuuming.
01:00:40
◼
►
- That's another good one, that's true.
01:00:42
◼
►
- I had this one rich friend who had all this stuff
01:00:44
◼
►
and the two things I was gonna mention
01:00:46
◼
►
were the intercom and the central vacuuming.
01:00:48
◼
►
- Yeah, well, it's actually a third one,
01:00:50
◼
►
which I think might be part of the intercom system,
01:00:52
◼
►
but it's also, I don't know if it was Bang & Olufsen,
01:00:55
◼
►
but it was similar, it was like built into the wall
01:00:59
◼
►
a dual cassette stereo system, like built into the wall,
01:01:04
◼
►
like flush with like a wood grain thing or whatever.
01:01:06
◼
►
I think it might've been part of the intercom,
01:01:08
◼
►
but they have one of those too.
01:01:09
◼
►
But here's the thing about the intercom,
01:01:11
◼
►
the whole house intercom, the way it manifested itself
01:01:14
◼
►
throughout the house was, you know,
01:01:17
◼
►
'cause it was like you'd push a button and talk
01:01:19
◼
►
and you could hear this, it was like terrible quality,
01:01:21
◼
►
it was RF or whatever.
01:01:23
◼
►
It's like, I kid you not, 16 inch by 16 inch square
01:01:28
◼
►
fake wood panels, they're huge,
01:01:33
◼
►
they're bigger than 12 by 12, they're probably 16 by 16,
01:01:36
◼
►
they're plastic slats, like blinds or whatever,
01:01:41
◼
►
like, I don't know, what are the horizontal blinds
01:01:45
◼
►
called made out of wood, but it's plastic with wood grain
01:01:47
◼
►
on it and it's a big square and then there's a circle
01:01:50
◼
►
inside the square that's gigantic,
01:01:52
◼
►
it's like bigger than a subwoofer,
01:01:53
◼
►
it's like the biggest supposed, inside it's probably
01:01:56
◼
►
this tiny little four inch, you know, speaker thing in it.
01:02:00
◼
►
And then all these buttons lined up on it
01:02:01
◼
►
and you'd talk across the house.
01:02:02
◼
►
Now, my family was a rich family in the 80s,
01:02:06
◼
►
but not quite that rich, so we bought from Radio Shack
01:02:10
◼
►
these little realistic home intercoms things.
01:02:13
◼
►
- This vaguely rings a bell.
01:02:15
◼
►
- They were beige, they were like maybe like as big
01:02:19
◼
►
as an iPhone, 10S Max, but of course like, you know,
01:02:23
◼
►
seven times as thick and they had a big button on them
01:02:26
◼
►
and you would press the button down and you would talk
01:02:28
◼
►
and it would broadcast into horrible fidelity
01:02:30
◼
►
throughout the house in theory.
01:02:32
◼
►
And there was the idea to stop us from yelling
01:02:36
◼
►
through the house, but the sound quality was so bad
01:02:38
◼
►
and you'd end up yelling into the intercom
01:02:39
◼
►
and you could hear them like not on the intercom.
01:02:41
◼
►
I don't know why we kept them for as long as we did,
01:02:43
◼
►
but we did have them in the house and they're mostly useless.
01:02:45
◼
►
We've never used the ones in the vacation house,
01:02:47
◼
►
but they're there.
01:02:49
◼
►
- So, I mean, this is the most pathetic contest ever,
01:02:54
◼
►
but my rich friends intercoms were fancier than yours.
01:02:56
◼
►
Because it was just, it was basically a phone system.
01:03:00
◼
►
It was like an office phone system.
01:03:01
◼
►
Like, each room had a wired like office phone in it,
01:03:04
◼
►
basically, even like the kids' bedrooms
01:03:06
◼
►
had wired office phones in them and you could use those.
01:03:09
◼
►
So because everything was wired over the phone system,
01:03:12
◼
►
it was perfectly clear just like an office phone would be.
01:03:14
◼
►
- Yeah, the cheaper ones are RF.
01:03:16
◼
►
Yeah, they were bad.
01:03:17
◼
►
- A user in the chat says, "I was born in 1991.
01:03:20
◼
►
"What the hell are they talking about?"
01:03:23
◼
►
So the intercom system, imagine there was like
01:03:26
◼
►
this big control panel typically in the kitchen,
01:03:29
◼
►
which was like literally two or three feet wide
01:03:31
◼
►
and like a foot or two tall,
01:03:33
◼
►
where you could speak into it and little,
01:03:37
◼
►
well, not actually that little per Jon's conversation,
01:03:39
◼
►
but comparatively little boxes in every room
01:03:43
◼
►
would wake up and broadcast the message
01:03:46
◼
►
that you just said in the kitchen.
01:03:47
◼
►
So a great example of this is mom or dad says,
01:03:49
◼
►
"Hey, dinner's ready, come downstairs."
01:03:52
◼
►
So you walk up to the intercom box, which is massive,
01:03:55
◼
►
and you hit a button and you say, "Hey, dinner's ready."
01:03:58
◼
►
And then all of the rooms in the house get that message.
01:04:00
◼
►
"Hey, dinner's ready."
01:04:01
◼
►
And that was extremely cool in the,
01:04:04
◼
►
apparently anywhere from as early as the '70s
01:04:06
◼
►
all the way through the like early to mid '90s.
01:04:10
◼
►
They were typically pieces of garbage.
01:04:12
◼
►
They typically toward the end of the era
01:04:14
◼
►
would allow you to do FM radio,
01:04:16
◼
►
like I was talking about earlier,
01:04:17
◼
►
so you could put on radio throughout the house.
01:04:19
◼
►
And these were the crappiest speakers known to man,
01:04:22
◼
►
so it sounded hilariously bad,
01:04:24
◼
►
probably no better than an iPhone, if not worse.
01:04:27
◼
►
But they were a sign of someone that was typically
01:04:31
◼
►
at least slightly well-to-do.
01:04:32
◼
►
- I've never seen, the kind of intercom system
01:04:35
◼
►
you're describing, I've never seen it.
01:04:36
◼
►
I've only seen the one at my friend's house
01:04:38
◼
►
that was basically an office phone system
01:04:39
◼
►
installed in their house.
01:04:40
◼
►
- I put a link in the chat room to,
01:04:43
◼
►
it's not the exact one that we have,
01:04:44
◼
►
but it's a similar design.
01:04:45
◼
►
- Oh, I remember this.
01:04:46
◼
►
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:04:47
◼
►
- See how big that is?
01:04:48
◼
►
Like, oh yeah.
01:04:49
◼
►
- Yep, I hear you.
01:04:50
◼
►
- And imagine a panel that size in like every room.
01:04:53
◼
►
- So the central vacuum, what that is,
01:04:55
◼
►
is imagine you had like this big tall canister somewhere,
01:04:59
◼
►
typically a basement or a garage,
01:05:01
◼
►
and then you had--
01:05:02
◼
►
- It's called a vacuum.
01:05:03
◼
►
- Hoses, yeah, it's called a vacuum, who knew?
01:05:05
◼
►
But no, it's larger, or at least the one we had
01:05:09
◼
►
in the house that I kind of sort of grew up in,
01:05:12
◼
►
'cause we had central vac and that.
01:05:13
◼
►
We did not have an intercom.
01:05:14
◼
►
- You had a central vac.
01:05:15
◼
►
- We did, we did.
01:05:17
◼
►
But anyways, so there's hoses running throughout the home,
01:05:20
◼
►
like you don't see them, they're in the walls,
01:05:21
◼
►
but all running back to that vacuum.
01:05:22
◼
►
So you could plug in, so you take a hose,
01:05:27
◼
►
and you can bring it to any room
01:05:28
◼
►
and plug the hose into the wall,
01:05:30
◼
►
and suddenly you have a vacuum in that room.
01:05:32
◼
►
And it actually is very cool.
01:05:33
◼
►
- Yeah, you basically have outlets that suck.
01:05:36
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, that's exactly right.
01:05:38
◼
►
- There's outlets near the floor level usually
01:05:40
◼
►
that are just suction outlets,
01:05:42
◼
►
and you plug a hose into it,
01:05:43
◼
►
and you can have a vacuum anywhere.
01:05:45
◼
►
But vacuums aren't that hard to carry around,
01:05:47
◼
►
or it solves a problem in a really crazy way
01:05:52
◼
►
that isn't that big of a problem to solve the regular way.
01:05:55
◼
►
- Yep, I mean, it was a neat trick.
01:05:57
◼
►
And actually, one of the extremely cool things about it is,
01:06:01
◼
►
actually, I think my brother-in-law's house,
01:06:02
◼
►
which was built not that terribly long ago, has this.
01:06:06
◼
►
He has a central vac, but in the kitchen,
01:06:08
◼
►
he has a little door or something
01:06:10
◼
►
where you can sweep crumbs into it, you know what I mean?
01:06:14
◼
►
So it's right at floor level,
01:06:15
◼
►
and I don't remember how you activate it
01:06:17
◼
►
to get the sucking to start title,
01:06:20
◼
►
but you can sweep dust into there,
01:06:24
◼
►
which is actually pretty cool.
01:06:25
◼
►
- It's like a built-in dust pan, basically.
01:06:27
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:06:29
◼
►
- None of these things are worth their installation
01:06:32
◼
►
and maintenance over just having a vac.
01:06:35
◼
►
- That's true.
01:06:36
◼
►
Here's the miraculous thing about them, though.
01:06:38
◼
►
The fact that they continue to work at all,
01:06:40
◼
►
because all of the home automation crap
01:06:42
◼
►
that we're installing now or that people installed
01:06:44
◼
►
five or 10 years ago is not going to work
01:06:47
◼
►
when they're 20 years old.
01:06:48
◼
►
But here's the 1980s stuff that's 20 years old or more.
01:06:52
◼
►
I mean, it's still just as bad as it ever was,
01:06:54
◼
►
but it continues to function.
01:06:55
◼
►
RF continues to be just as bad as it always was.
01:07:02
◼
►
The size of it becomes more and more hilarious,
01:07:04
◼
►
because now, again, we got into this,
01:07:05
◼
►
Casey is talking to his wrist at higher fidelity
01:07:08
◼
►
than these gigantic panels in every room of the house.
01:07:11
◼
►
- Yep, and I don't think it's like Bluetooth
01:07:14
◼
►
or anything like that.
01:07:15
◼
►
This is getting carried over the internet,
01:07:16
◼
►
if I'm not mistaken.
01:07:17
◼
►
So yeah, it must be, because I was walkie-talkie-ing
01:07:20
◼
►
with Stephen Hackett very, very briefly
01:07:21
◼
►
when this all first came out.
01:07:23
◼
►
So yeah, this is going over the internet.
01:07:25
◼
►
I could talk to Memphis from Richmond more clearly
01:07:29
◼
►
than I could talk from the downstairs to the upstairs
01:07:31
◼
►
in a prior home that my family owned.
01:07:34
◼
►
- Not if he yelled.
01:07:36
◼
►
Yelling is quite clear.
01:07:39
◼
►
- We are sponsored this week by Betterment,
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- All right, let's do some Ask ATP.
01:09:00
◼
►
Bastian and Inuk--
01:09:01
◼
►
- Are we really not gonna talk about the Bloomberg thing?
01:09:05
◼
►
- No, just listen up, great.
01:09:06
◼
►
He'll be fine, he'll be fine.
01:09:08
◼
►
- Honestly, I fully support that.
01:09:09
◼
►
Upgrade covered it really well.
01:09:11
◼
►
- It's still in the topic list.
01:09:13
◼
►
It's probably not going away.
01:09:15
◼
►
We'll have another shot at it next week.
01:09:16
◼
►
- Just quickly, do you think there's any chance
01:09:19
◼
►
that Bloomberg is correct?
01:09:21
◼
►
It seems like there isn't.
01:09:22
◼
►
It seems like they really have a lot of egg on their face.
01:09:25
◼
►
- No, they can't be 100% correct
01:09:28
◼
►
because the claims are so broad
01:09:31
◼
►
that it would be very easy to find evidence of them
01:09:34
◼
►
from all the players involved
01:09:35
◼
►
who are highly motivated to find evidence of them.
01:09:38
◼
►
So it can't be 100% correct.
01:09:39
◼
►
Could it be 1% correct?
01:09:40
◼
►
Sure, there could be a kernel of truth somewhere in here.
01:09:43
◼
►
But their claims are just so massive
01:09:47
◼
►
that this is things that happened
01:09:48
◼
►
and it happened to all these different companies
01:09:51
◼
►
and all these different people
01:09:52
◼
►
and confirmed by all these people
01:09:53
◼
►
and confirmed by this agency and that agency.
01:09:55
◼
►
And all these people can't be conspiring
01:10:00
◼
►
to pretend they know nothing about this.
01:10:02
◼
►
And again, they're fairly highly motivated
01:10:05
◼
►
to find out if this is true.
01:10:09
◼
►
I don't think there can be coordination
01:10:12
◼
►
between all the tech companies
01:10:13
◼
►
and all the government agencies all got together
01:10:15
◼
►
and decided we're all gonna get together
01:10:17
◼
►
and agree on the same story and deny this Bloomberg thing.
01:10:19
◼
►
So Bloomberg made a boo-boo somewhere.
01:10:21
◼
►
It just depends.
01:10:22
◼
►
It's sinister, it's just incompetence.
01:10:25
◼
►
We didn't even give any context for this.
01:10:26
◼
►
I guess many people don't know,
01:10:28
◼
►
haven't been reading the news,
01:10:29
◼
►
but the Bloomberg ran a story claiming
01:10:30
◼
►
that there are secret, very tiny chips embedded in boards
01:10:34
◼
►
used by a bunch of big tech companies
01:10:36
◼
►
and that allow hackers to get into their data centers
01:10:40
◼
►
or whatever and they named a bunch of different companies
01:10:42
◼
►
and all the companies are like,
01:10:44
◼
►
the companies weren't just immediate denial.
01:10:47
◼
►
They checked this.
01:10:48
◼
►
All of them probably turned to their security people
01:10:50
◼
►
and said, do we have secret chips in our computer?
01:10:53
◼
►
The things, have we talked to the FBI about it?
01:10:56
◼
►
The answer was they talked to all their people,
01:10:59
◼
►
the security people, their company lawyers or whatever.
01:11:01
◼
►
The answer is no, none of this stuff is a thing.
01:11:04
◼
►
So I'm not sure where you're getting,
01:11:06
◼
►
and the FBI denied it and everybody.
01:11:08
◼
►
- You've had the level of denials from me.
01:11:12
◼
►
You really can't look at these denials and say,
01:11:15
◼
►
oh, they're leaving room to BS their way out of it.
01:11:18
◼
►
They're categorical, very broad.
01:11:21
◼
►
- They're not using weasel words.
01:11:23
◼
►
They're not using carefully worded lawyer messages.
01:11:26
◼
►
And they're almost worded as if we were willing to believe
01:11:29
◼
►
that we double checked and triple checked just to make sure,
01:11:33
◼
►
make really, really sure because we're gonna,
01:11:36
◼
►
they issued a statement like we checked it.
01:11:38
◼
►
If you say we have these servers with these chips
01:11:40
◼
►
and you say that we discovered, in some cases,
01:11:43
◼
►
oh, this company, it was Amazon or whatever,
01:11:45
◼
►
discovered these chips and then canceled its order,
01:11:47
◼
►
it's like we wouldn't know if we discovered the chips
01:11:49
◼
►
and canceled the order, it's a thing we would remember.
01:11:52
◼
►
- Well, and these are the kind of statements,
01:11:54
◼
►
if these companies and their denials,
01:11:56
◼
►
if they're lying about this,
01:11:57
◼
►
executives would go to jail if they got caught.
01:12:00
◼
►
That's how severely these statements would be taken.
01:12:02
◼
►
- Executives never go to jail, so let's be real.
01:12:04
◼
►
But they would get fined.
01:12:06
◼
►
- I mean, this would be a severe SEC problem.
01:12:10
◼
►
They would almost certainly have major problems
01:12:13
◼
►
if they lied about this kind of stuff.
01:12:15
◼
►
- Almost as bad as Elon Musk's tweeting.
01:12:17
◼
►
- Yeah, that's, yeah, that's, yeah,
01:12:18
◼
►
we'll get to that some other time, I hope.
01:12:20
◼
►
- $20 million tweet, good job.
01:12:21
◼
►
- Oh, I wish he would just stop being like that.
01:12:25
◼
►
- Yeah. (laughs)
01:12:26
◼
►
- Just stop being like him.
01:12:27
◼
►
- Just stop, keep making the awesome cars,
01:12:29
◼
►
please stop tweeting. (laughs)
01:12:31
◼
►
- So it's worth listening to the latest upgrade,
01:12:35
◼
►
which is upgrade number 214,
01:12:37
◼
►
which actually has a journalist as part of the panel.
01:12:40
◼
►
And so Jason Snell and Mike Hurley did a really good job
01:12:43
◼
►
of kind of dissecting all this.
01:12:44
◼
►
The only thing I think that may be interesting
01:12:47
◼
►
for the three of us to really pontificate on,
01:12:49
◼
►
and maybe this was covered in the Bloomberg piece
01:12:52
◼
►
that I didn't read
01:12:53
◼
►
because it was almost immediately debunked by everyone,
01:12:56
◼
►
but what do you think is the attack vector here?
01:12:59
◼
►
Like, how do you make heads or tails
01:13:02
◼
►
of data anywhere on a machine without any context?
01:13:06
◼
►
Like, if you intercept an ethernet cable,
01:13:10
◼
►
can you really tell what's going on there?
01:13:13
◼
►
Or where do you attack in order to get all of the things
01:13:17
◼
►
that are happening on a computer without context?
01:13:20
◼
►
That's what I can't just put my finger on.
01:13:22
◼
►
- But if you're on the board, though,
01:13:24
◼
►
that's not the, I don't think that's the most obvious
01:13:27
◼
►
attack factor, you suppose you could do that,
01:13:28
◼
►
but first of all, many things travel across a computer board
01:13:32
◼
►
in an encrypted form that are otherwise encrypted, right?
01:13:34
◼
►
Because if encrypted data comes in over a network connection,
01:13:38
◼
►
it is decrypted by the whatever software on your computer,
01:13:42
◼
►
and the decrypted information is put into memory
01:13:45
◼
►
and read by programs.
01:13:45
◼
►
Like, that's how you render a webpage
01:13:47
◼
►
when it's SSL, you know, HTTPS connection, right?
01:13:50
◼
►
At some point, that information is decrypted
01:13:52
◼
►
inside the computer.
01:13:53
◼
►
So in theory, if you were in the right place,
01:13:54
◼
►
you can intercept decrypted information
01:13:56
◼
►
because your computer has to decrypt it to use it,
01:13:58
◼
►
and there you are.
01:13:59
◼
►
But I don't think that's the vector.
01:14:00
◼
►
I think the vector is more like BIOS and boot loaders,
01:14:04
◼
►
like compromising the security of the hardware
01:14:08
◼
►
to allow you to pull down a compromised OS image, right?
01:14:13
◼
►
With like a rootkit on it or something like that.
01:14:15
◼
►
You can subvert the hardware at the lowest level,
01:14:17
◼
►
and then, you know, like the assumption is,
01:14:21
◼
►
oh, we're running a trusted version of the OS
01:14:22
◼
►
that we validated, a trusted version of the firmware.
01:14:24
◼
►
Like everything is all great and validated.
01:14:27
◼
►
If you can sneak in there and subvert that and say,
01:14:30
◼
►
we can load any arbitrary binary onto your system,
01:14:33
◼
►
unbeknownst to you, replacing a binary
01:14:35
◼
►
that you thought was your validated version,
01:14:37
◼
►
but it's actually, now we're gonna replace it
01:14:39
◼
►
with our version.
01:14:40
◼
►
And that piece of software has a backdoor in it,
01:14:43
◼
►
you know, logs everything that is typed on the keyboard,
01:14:46
◼
►
attached to the computer, watches all network traffic
01:14:48
◼
►
for like certain information and relays it.
01:14:51
◼
►
And, you know, there's still difficulties.
01:14:53
◼
►
Like Amazon was saying, like these computers in question,
01:14:55
◼
►
like have no way to communicate on the network.
01:14:58
◼
►
Every one of these companies watches egress
01:15:00
◼
►
from the network like a hawk and has it all locked down.
01:15:02
◼
►
So it's not easy, but if you can get in
01:15:04
◼
►
at the hardware level,
01:15:05
◼
►
there are all sorts of very nefarious things you can do.
01:15:08
◼
►
One of the most interesting stories I saw about this
01:15:10
◼
►
was a security researcher, I forget who,
01:15:12
◼
►
if we had been talking about this,
01:15:13
◼
►
I would have collected more links,
01:15:14
◼
►
but who had written up for like one
01:15:17
◼
►
of those security conferences.
01:15:18
◼
►
I don't know if it was Black Hat,
01:15:19
◼
►
but one of those similar things like,
01:15:20
◼
►
let me show you all the cool exploits you could do
01:15:22
◼
►
if you could get onto the motherboards of this hardware.
01:15:25
◼
►
And he did a bunch of proof concepts
01:15:27
◼
►
and had ideas about it and suggested ways
01:15:30
◼
►
you could hide the hardware and, you know,
01:15:31
◼
►
all sorts of stuff.
01:15:33
◼
►
And this Bloomberg story basically includes
01:15:36
◼
►
every single thing he talked about,
01:15:38
◼
►
exactly the way he talked about it.
01:15:40
◼
►
So as he said himself, and the paraphrasing is basically,
01:15:42
◼
►
either I'm incredibly good at predicting the future
01:15:45
◼
►
or this story was massively influenced,
01:15:48
◼
►
but like it doesn't mean that Bloomberg saw what he wrote
01:15:50
◼
►
and made up a story.
01:15:51
◼
►
It just means like whoever the sources were
01:15:53
◼
►
perhaps saw his stuff and then fed Bloomberg information
01:15:56
◼
►
that exactly matched his ideas of how you could exploit this.
01:15:58
◼
►
Like literally every single thing point by point.
01:16:01
◼
►
You know, I said you could possibly do this
01:16:03
◼
►
and the Bloomberg story, they say somebody did do that.
01:16:05
◼
►
And I said you could hide it here
01:16:06
◼
►
and the Bloomberg story says they hid it there.
01:16:07
◼
►
And like, it's weird.
01:16:10
◼
►
Like at this point I think it's,
01:16:13
◼
►
like there's gotta be something nefarious somewhere
01:16:15
◼
►
because all these supposedly validated sources
01:16:19
◼
►
have to have some motivation to be sources
01:16:22
◼
►
and to say hey Bloomberg, I've got information for you.
01:16:24
◼
►
What their, you know, motivation is
01:16:27
◼
►
and why they're doing it and why they were able
01:16:30
◼
►
to seem credible to Bloomberg.
01:16:33
◼
►
Like eventually we have to get to the real story
01:16:36
◼
►
which is, you know, lots of theories about like
01:16:39
◼
►
retaliation and trade wars with China
01:16:43
◼
►
to try to make it seem like China's exploiting stuff
01:16:46
◼
►
or trying to hurt tech companies or a stock manipulation.
01:16:48
◼
►
There's all sorts of motivations for this type of thing.
01:16:50
◼
►
But hopefully in the end the real, real story will come out
01:16:55
◼
►
and we'll know what the deal is.
01:16:56
◼
►
But for now I'm content to believe
01:16:59
◼
►
that all the secret exploits inside the data centers
01:17:03
◼
►
of all the biggest tech companies remain totally hidden.
01:17:08
◼
►
'Cause that's all you can say.
01:17:09
◼
►
You can't say I'm sure everything's secure
01:17:10
◼
►
'cause this story's BS.
01:17:11
◼
►
This story may very well be 100% BS.
01:17:14
◼
►
You still just don't really know, do you?
01:17:16
◼
►
Just don't really know.
01:17:18
◼
►
- Yeah, I just, when you look at all the,
01:17:21
◼
►
everything's come out since then.
01:17:22
◼
►
All these pretty very, you know, very, very firm,
01:17:26
◼
►
very like high risk denials from all the companies.
01:17:30
◼
►
The corroborating denials from the British
01:17:34
◼
►
and US intelligence agencies or whoever they are.
01:17:37
◼
►
Like it's, the chance that the Bloomberg is right
01:17:40
◼
►
in the face of all that.
01:17:41
◼
►
And not to mention what you mentioned with like, you know,
01:17:43
◼
►
the guy who gave them an interview
01:17:45
◼
►
and then they basically said all of his theoreticals,
01:17:47
◼
►
they basically said that as fact.
01:17:49
◼
►
It just seems very unlikely that any part of this is true.
01:17:53
◼
►
I 100% blame Bloomberg for this.
01:17:56
◼
►
Like I don't think this was necessarily nefarious.
01:18:01
◼
►
Like I don't think we know enough yet
01:18:03
◼
►
to say whether it was like intentional stock manipulation
01:18:05
◼
►
or but, but I do think it was--
01:18:08
◼
►
- What's the non-nefarious motivation for this?
01:18:10
◼
►
Like there has to, someone has to have bad motives
01:18:13
◼
►
because if it all isn't true,
01:18:14
◼
►
someone is taking untrue information
01:18:16
◼
►
and either just making it up themselves and printing it,
01:18:17
◼
►
which is unlikely I think, or being a source.
01:18:20
◼
►
Sources coming to Bloomberg and saying
01:18:22
◼
►
here's this information, which is not true,
01:18:24
◼
►
but they're intentionally feeding false information.
01:18:26
◼
►
So that's a nefarious motiva--
01:18:28
◼
►
They must be feeding false information for a reason.
01:18:29
◼
►
- It could be a misunderstanding somewhere along the way.
01:18:32
◼
►
It could also just be like confirmation bias.
01:18:34
◼
►
Like I've had so many, I've seen so many instances,
01:18:37
◼
►
both stories I'm involved in and stories I'm not,
01:18:40
◼
►
where a journalist or their editor
01:18:42
◼
►
really wants to make a story true.
01:18:45
◼
►
And so they will basically, you know,
01:18:48
◼
►
talk to sources until the source tells them
01:18:50
◼
►
what they wanna hear or until they hear
01:18:52
◼
►
what they wanna hear, even if the source never even said it.
01:18:55
◼
►
And it's not necessarily malicious,
01:18:58
◼
►
it's just like human nature.
01:18:59
◼
►
Like you want so badly for this thing to be true
01:19:01
◼
►
that you think is true that you will find evidence of it,
01:19:06
◼
►
even if that evidence isn't real
01:19:08
◼
►
or doesn't actually support the conclusion
01:19:10
◼
►
you're trying to write about.
01:19:11
◼
►
And so that's a natural thing that happens.
01:19:14
◼
►
The real crazy part here is these are very,
01:19:19
◼
►
very serious allegations against very big companies
01:19:23
◼
►
and massive world governments.
01:19:25
◼
►
And a major publication appears not to have done
01:19:29
◼
►
enough diligence on vetting this
01:19:31
◼
►
before making it a very high profile story.
01:19:33
◼
►
That is the crazy thing to me,
01:19:36
◼
►
because I really don't believe a shred of this.
01:19:38
◼
►
I don't think this story is true at all.
01:19:39
◼
►
I think we have a lot of evidence on the other side
01:19:41
◼
►
and we have nothing on the side of it being true
01:19:44
◼
►
except Bloomberg saying, "We say it's true."
01:19:47
◼
►
But it really appears like a massive case of negligence
01:19:50
◼
►
on Bloomberg's part.
01:19:51
◼
►
- Yeah, but it's so easy to validate.
01:19:53
◼
►
If these things are out there,
01:19:54
◼
►
especially if it's the story specifically says
01:19:56
◼
►
that they were discovered by some companies,
01:19:58
◼
►
you should be able to verify all of that.
01:20:01
◼
►
Like everyone, if this is a widespread problem
01:20:04
◼
►
and some companies already discovered it,
01:20:06
◼
►
I mean, the only possible explanation would be,
01:20:07
◼
►
yeah, they discovered it
01:20:08
◼
►
but they're just not saying anything about it
01:20:09
◼
►
'cause it's super secret.
01:20:10
◼
►
Like the conspiracy theory you have to spin
01:20:14
◼
►
to make the Bloomberg story actually truthful
01:20:16
◼
►
gets bigger and bigger and more ridiculous by the day
01:20:19
◼
►
'cause it's the type of thing that it's not,
01:20:21
◼
►
it's not just one tiny isolated thing.
01:20:23
◼
►
It's so widespread and so large and such large numbers
01:20:26
◼
►
and like it's totally under their control to detect it.
01:20:29
◼
►
They can take the boards out.
01:20:30
◼
►
They can put them on our microscope.
01:20:31
◼
►
They can examine it.
01:20:33
◼
►
Like it's the type of thing that if you know
01:20:34
◼
►
it's supposedly there and you know where to look for it
01:20:37
◼
►
or how to look for it, you would find it if it was there.
01:20:40
◼
►
Like obviously if you don't know to look for it
01:20:42
◼
►
or like slipped under your radar, you might not see it
01:20:44
◼
►
but once the story is out,
01:20:45
◼
►
certainly you're gonna look at the stuff
01:20:46
◼
►
and I don't know, it's messed up.
01:20:49
◼
►
- That's why I think like for this to be true,
01:20:52
◼
►
it requires such craziness to actually be true
01:20:55
◼
►
and so many people to be lying and outright.
01:20:57
◼
►
But if instead you say it looks like Bloomberg was wrong
01:21:02
◼
►
and is either really afraid to admit it
01:21:05
◼
►
or really in denial that they're wrong
01:21:07
◼
►
or too proud to admit it,
01:21:09
◼
►
either like what they have done here
01:21:12
◼
►
is so incredibly damaging and so incredibly irresponsible
01:21:16
◼
►
that they could really be sued big time for this.
01:21:19
◼
►
Like Bloomberg, I'm saying,
01:21:21
◼
►
they have a serious problem on their hands
01:21:22
◼
►
if this is wrong and it sure looks like it's wrong.
01:21:25
◼
►
I don't think Apple would sue them.
01:21:27
◼
►
I think Apple has done enough
01:21:29
◼
►
and I don't think they would want the bad PR
01:21:31
◼
►
of suing a journalistic entity.
01:21:32
◼
►
That's pretty bad PR for a big company
01:21:34
◼
►
but like what Bloomberg has done appears to be so neglectful
01:21:39
◼
►
and so like potentially nefarious
01:21:41
◼
►
that it wouldn't surprise me
01:21:42
◼
►
if somebody sues them in a really big way.
01:21:45
◼
►
- Yeah, like I said, just listen, upgrade.
01:21:48
◼
►
There's a lot of good stuff there.
01:21:49
◼
►
It's worth your time.
01:21:50
◼
►
Moving on to Ask ATP,
01:21:53
◼
►
Bastian Anok writes storyboards for iOS development,
01:21:57
◼
►
And if you're not familiar with iOS development,
01:21:59
◼
►
there's basically three mechanisms
01:22:01
◼
►
to generate a user interface
01:22:04
◼
►
that I can think of off the top of my head.
01:22:05
◼
►
You can write a bunch of code,
01:22:07
◼
►
you can handle each user interface
01:22:10
◼
►
and I'm oversimplifying a little bit as an individual item
01:22:13
◼
►
or and that's typically referred to as nibs
01:22:16
◼
►
or you can use a relatively comparatively new technology
01:22:20
◼
►
called storyboards where you have many different screens
01:22:24
◼
►
all in one file.
01:22:25
◼
►
And this is one of those things like Objective-C or Swift
01:22:28
◼
►
that everyone has an opinion about and nobody agrees on
01:22:31
◼
►
and I expect that that's going to happen again momentarily.
01:22:34
◼
►
I have used both professionally.
01:22:38
◼
►
I tend to come down in favor of storyboards
01:22:40
◼
►
because that's clearly where Apple wants you to be,
01:22:43
◼
►
that provide or used to provide things like you can do,
01:22:48
◼
►
I forget the term for it now off the top of my head,
01:22:50
◼
►
but you can do table view cells and things like that
01:22:53
◼
►
in storyboards very easily.
01:22:54
◼
►
There's ways to do it with nibs,
01:22:55
◼
►
but it's not quite so simple.
01:22:57
◼
►
And there's a bunch of, there's a few other things
01:22:58
◼
►
like maybe safe area insets.
01:23:00
◼
►
There's other things that were only in storyboards
01:23:01
◼
►
that never made it to nibs.
01:23:03
◼
►
The problem with storyboards though,
01:23:04
◼
►
is that they are just a wonderful place
01:23:08
◼
►
to have tremendous merge conflicts.
01:23:09
◼
►
And if you have storyboards that are more than a screen
01:23:11
◼
►
or two and a team of more than one,
01:23:13
◼
►
it gets real ugly real quick.
01:23:15
◼
►
So I'm in favor of storyboards.
01:23:17
◼
►
And if you don't like storyboards,
01:23:18
◼
►
I'm still in favor of nibs.
01:23:19
◼
►
I personally do not think the writing code
01:23:23
◼
►
for everything way is a smart call because all code is evil.
01:23:26
◼
►
But Marco, tell me why I'm wrong.
01:23:27
◼
►
- I don't necessarily think you are wrong.
01:23:29
◼
►
I don't use a lot of storyboards.
01:23:31
◼
►
I do almost all of my interface work in code
01:23:33
◼
►
using auto layout and my compact constraint library,
01:23:36
◼
►
which is basically a fancy version of auto layout syntax
01:23:39
◼
►
that you can do really easily in code.
01:23:41
◼
►
With a combination of that and the kind of ASCII based
01:23:45
◼
►
auto layout syntax, the, I forget what it's called.
01:23:48
◼
►
- Visual format language.
01:23:49
◼
►
- That's it, VFL, yeah, the visual format language.
01:23:51
◼
►
You're right.
01:23:52
◼
►
So I do all my interfaces like that,
01:23:53
◼
►
but that does bring issues.
01:23:56
◼
►
It makes it harder to accommodate for things like
01:23:59
◼
►
dynamic text or new screen sizes.
01:24:02
◼
►
Just because there's more places to check,
01:24:03
◼
►
there's more work to be done.
01:24:06
◼
►
Certain areas of development you need
01:24:10
◼
►
to use a storyboard for, like the launch thing
01:24:12
◼
►
or like watch kit stuff is all storyboard based.
01:24:15
◼
►
So there's certain areas where you just kind of need that.
01:24:18
◼
►
And that is clearly where Apple is investing their time.
01:24:21
◼
►
They're investing their time in the tooling
01:24:23
◼
►
and the capabilities and making things easy for you
01:24:26
◼
►
if you use storyboards.
01:24:28
◼
►
So there's a huge argument to say just use storyboards
01:24:31
◼
►
because when you're fighting Apple on fewer fronts,
01:24:34
◼
►
things are easier for you.
01:24:35
◼
►
However, with storyboards and with nibs before them,
01:24:39
◼
►
there are certain walls that you just hit.
01:24:41
◼
►
And they have done a really good job of reducing
01:24:44
◼
►
these walls over time so that storyboards
01:24:47
◼
►
are now more capable and more flexible than ever.
01:24:49
◼
►
And there's fewer and fewer areas that you'll run into
01:24:52
◼
►
where you just can't do this in a good way
01:24:54
◼
►
with a storyboard and you have to switch your code.
01:24:56
◼
►
But there are still areas like that.
01:24:58
◼
►
And there are still downsides to using storyboards
01:25:00
◼
►
in certain ways.
01:25:02
◼
►
There are things like using custom controls
01:25:05
◼
►
where you can do the IB designable stuff
01:25:08
◼
►
to make your custom control appear in Interface Builder
01:25:12
◼
►
in a useful way.
01:25:13
◼
►
But that's really buggy and is difficult.
01:25:15
◼
►
And so you end up, if you're a storyboard heavy workflow,
01:25:20
◼
►
you end up doing a lot of supporting work
01:25:23
◼
►
to enable the storyboard.
01:25:25
◼
►
And that might, for certain use cases,
01:25:27
◼
►
that might be more work than it would have been
01:25:29
◼
►
to just write the thing in code in the first place.
01:25:31
◼
►
So it's a debate that is not, it doesn't have an easy answer
01:25:36
◼
►
but I lean towards just use storyboards
01:25:39
◼
►
because that's what Apple wants you to do
01:25:41
◼
►
and that's what they're gonna make easy.
01:25:42
◼
►
That being said, I don't do that because that's me.
01:25:45
◼
►
- Yeah, and just, I would love for Apple to do something
01:25:50
◼
►
about making it easier for multiple people
01:25:52
◼
►
to work on storyboards at the same time.
01:25:54
◼
►
And I don't know how to do that
01:25:56
◼
►
because it's just like the XC Proj files
01:25:59
◼
►
or if you're a Windows person
01:26:00
◼
►
like the Visual Studio solution in project files,
01:26:03
◼
►
it's just hard to have a scenario
01:26:07
◼
►
where multiple people can modify them
01:26:09
◼
►
and things don't just go straight to hell.
01:26:11
◼
►
So I still encourage storyboards but be careful.
01:26:15
◼
►
- Eh, working with people is overrated.
01:26:18
◼
►
- Does that mean I'm fired?
01:26:19
◼
►
Spencer Waller writes, "What's the worst compromise,
01:26:22
◼
►
"a fusion drive or a hybrid car?
01:26:24
◼
►
"Assume modern implementations of both."
01:26:26
◼
►
I thought this was really clever.
01:26:28
◼
►
I think I would rather have a fusion drive
01:26:33
◼
►
and avoid the hybrid car, but it's a tough call.
01:26:37
◼
►
And I say that because having never actually used
01:26:41
◼
►
a fusion drive, to be fair, it seems like
01:26:44
◼
►
there are not many compromises outside of them
01:26:48
◼
►
still not working with APFS, is that right, Jon?
01:26:51
◼
►
- No, they do.
01:26:52
◼
►
- Oh, okay, there you go.
01:26:53
◼
►
So there's few compromises in theory
01:26:56
◼
►
and it would solve a lot of computing problems in theory
01:27:00
◼
►
and when everything works great, it's fairly transparent,
01:27:03
◼
►
whereas I would say that your typical hybrid car,
01:27:07
◼
►
and I'm thinking more of an economy hybrid car,
01:27:09
◼
►
Jon's about to swoop in with some sort of NSX
01:27:11
◼
►
something or other, but--
01:27:13
◼
►
- It's pronounced NS 10.
01:27:17
◼
►
- Well done, sir.
01:27:18
◼
►
Anyways, I think that I would,
01:27:20
◼
►
unless you go into the hypercar territory,
01:27:22
◼
►
I would be more displeased by a hybrid car
01:27:25
◼
►
than a fusion drive.
01:27:27
◼
►
- That wasn't the question.
01:27:28
◼
►
I was gonna make it about you.
01:27:29
◼
►
What's the worst compromise, not which would you rather have?
01:27:31
◼
►
- All right, fine.
01:27:32
◼
►
The worst compromise is still the fusion drive.
01:27:37
◼
►
Don't at me.
01:27:38
◼
►
Marco, what do you think, Marco?
01:27:40
◼
►
- A fusion drive is a pretty poor compromise
01:27:44
◼
►
because you do start hitting weird speed issues pretty often.
01:27:49
◼
►
It's just kind of, it's hard to predict and inconsistent
01:27:54
◼
►
and those are not good qualities
01:27:56
◼
►
for a performance-critical part of anything to have,
01:27:59
◼
►
especially your computer.
01:28:00
◼
►
And ignoring Jon's complaint for a second,
01:28:02
◼
►
if I were choosing for myself,
01:28:04
◼
►
I would choose the hybrid car
01:28:06
◼
►
because I don't like either of these things,
01:28:08
◼
►
but I spend a lot more time using my computer
01:28:09
◼
►
than using my car.
01:28:10
◼
►
So, and I think I would,
01:28:13
◼
►
the problems of a hybrid car, which are many,
01:28:18
◼
►
I think the biggest problem to me of a hybrid car,
01:28:20
◼
►
besides the massive weight that they would tend to have
01:28:22
◼
►
'cause they have all of everything,
01:28:24
◼
►
is just the massive complexity they tend to have.
01:28:25
◼
►
Like, hybrid cars, you have an entire electric drivetrain
01:28:28
◼
►
and an entire gas drivetrain
01:28:30
◼
►
and all the parts that both of those things need.
01:28:32
◼
►
So, I recognize their importance for environmentalism
01:28:36
◼
►
to kind of bridge the gap until we get all electric,
01:28:38
◼
►
but just as a concept, like on principle,
01:28:41
◼
►
they're incredibly complicated.
01:28:43
◼
►
And I don't like the idea of requiring all of those parts
01:28:46
◼
►
for all of those systems in this car
01:28:48
◼
►
as opposed to just picking one and sticking with that one
01:28:50
◼
►
and making that one really efficient and whatever else.
01:28:53
◼
►
So, the Fusion Drive, though, like, Fusion Drive is,
01:28:55
◼
►
again, it's a bridge technology, it's a hack.
01:28:58
◼
►
It's a way to get near where we wanna be, which is all SSD,
01:29:03
◼
►
but without having to pay the costs.
01:29:05
◼
►
And so, it's actually a very good parallel,
01:29:07
◼
►
but the downsides of a Fusion Drive are constant in use
01:29:12
◼
►
in the sense that like, if that's all you have,
01:29:15
◼
►
if that's all you can afford, fine, it's fine.
01:29:17
◼
►
It's better than a pure hard drive,
01:29:19
◼
►
but it's not nearly as good as a pure SSD.
01:29:21
◼
►
I would pick the hybrid car, and I think the hybrid car
01:29:26
◼
►
might even be the better compromise
01:29:29
◼
►
because a Fusion Drive is unpredictable
01:29:33
◼
►
in how it'll perform in a very critical way to the computer.
01:29:36
◼
►
Whereas a hybrid car, much of the time
01:29:40
◼
►
that you're driving it, you could totally forget
01:29:42
◼
►
that it's a hybrid car.
01:29:44
◼
►
- Now, what if you didn't live on your computer like you do?
01:29:47
◼
►
- Same thing.
01:29:48
◼
►
I think the, I mean, it depends on how, you know,
01:29:50
◼
►
if I use my computer an hour a week,
01:29:52
◼
►
then maybe I might make a different decision,
01:29:55
◼
►
but I still stand by my last sentence there,
01:29:57
◼
►
which is like, a hybrid car, like, you don't notice
01:30:00
◼
►
its downsides most of the time while driving it.
01:30:02
◼
►
You know, you notice when something breaks
01:30:03
◼
►
or it needs to be serviced or wears out,
01:30:05
◼
►
but like, for the most part, you don't notice
01:30:07
◼
►
its downsides most of the time.
01:30:09
◼
►
Whereas a Fusion Drive makes itself apparent
01:30:12
◼
►
more often in use.
01:30:15
◼
►
- Just wanna correct one of the things that Marco said.
01:30:17
◼
►
I don't think hybrid cars weigh more on average
01:30:19
◼
►
than an electric car with the same range.
01:30:21
◼
►
They weigh less.
01:30:22
◼
►
So yes, they do have all of everything,
01:30:23
◼
►
and the complexity is for sure there
01:30:25
◼
►
compared to an electric car, but they weigh less
01:30:28
◼
►
because they have very dinky gas motors
01:30:31
◼
►
and you get huge range from a very small gas tank
01:30:33
◼
►
and they have very small batteries,
01:30:34
◼
►
as opposed to one giant hunk of battery.
01:30:36
◼
►
So that's not a reason to dislike hybrid cars.
01:30:40
◼
►
What's the worst compromise?
01:30:41
◼
►
I'm gonna agree with both of you and say Fusion Drive,
01:30:44
◼
►
but for a slightly different reason.
01:30:46
◼
►
So judging like, what's a good compromise,
01:30:48
◼
►
but it's not like, in the moment,
01:30:50
◼
►
both a hybrid car and a Fusion Drive are similar.
01:30:55
◼
►
In the beginning, I was having trouble picking
01:30:57
◼
►
which one is the worst compromise
01:30:59
◼
►
because they're very similar compromises.
01:31:01
◼
►
It's like, you can't go all the way
01:31:05
◼
►
for basically for cost reasons.
01:31:07
◼
►
So how can you get a reasonable compromise
01:31:10
◼
►
that gives you the speed of an SSD without the cost?
01:31:12
◼
►
How can you get something that gives you
01:31:15
◼
►
better gas mileage, but you can't afford
01:31:17
◼
►
to use a full battery pack, right?
01:31:19
◼
►
'Cause it just costs too much money.
01:31:21
◼
►
But the Fusion Drive is worse because
01:31:25
◼
►
in its relevant realm, storage for computers,
01:31:29
◼
►
the rate of advancement is such that
01:31:32
◼
►
that compromise quickly becomes moot.
01:31:37
◼
►
Like, flash storage is so cheap now
01:31:40
◼
►
that it's very hard to recommend a Fusion Drive
01:31:43
◼
►
as a reasonable compromise.
01:31:44
◼
►
In the beginning, it was reasonable,
01:31:46
◼
►
but very quickly it became unreasonable,
01:31:47
◼
►
whereas hybrid cars have been a very reasonable compromise
01:31:51
◼
►
for a long time.
01:31:52
◼
►
They existed way before the Fusion Drive
01:31:54
◼
►
and they will exist way after the Fusion Drive,
01:31:57
◼
►
mostly because the full solution,
01:32:00
◼
►
the complete electric, is still very, very expensive.
01:32:03
◼
►
If you want to get the same range,
01:32:05
◼
►
if you want to get a car with a 300-mile range
01:32:08
◼
►
that's all electric, it's just much more expensive
01:32:11
◼
►
than a car with a 300-mile range that's a hybrid.
01:32:13
◼
►
A car with a 300-mile range is a hybrid
01:32:15
◼
►
you can get for like 20K,
01:32:16
◼
►
like if you buy a dinky Econobox, right?
01:32:18
◼
►
But Fusion Drives, like now, flash storage
01:32:24
◼
►
is so much cheaper than it used to be.
01:32:25
◼
►
Like, the SSE that's sitting on my computer now,
01:32:28
◼
►
I only bought it a few years ago.
01:32:30
◼
►
Already I can get it for a half or a quarter of the price
01:32:32
◼
►
depending on how much I want the performance to go down.
01:32:35
◼
►
So Fusion Drives are a worse compromise
01:32:36
◼
►
because they had a shorter lifetime,
01:32:38
◼
►
whereas the lifetime of the hybrid drivetrain
01:32:43
◼
►
has been much longer already and will continue to live on
01:32:46
◼
►
because despite all the complexity,
01:32:49
◼
►
taking a very well-known technology,
01:32:52
◼
►
the internal combustion engine,
01:32:53
◼
►
and making a small, very efficient Atkinson cycle version
01:32:57
◼
►
of that and supplementing it with a fairly small battery,
01:33:02
◼
►
perhaps even using cheaper battery technology
01:33:04
◼
►
like nickel metal hydride instead of lithium ion,
01:33:06
◼
►
and combining them in what is a fairly complex system
01:33:09
◼
►
but it's cheap enough to put in a Toyota Prius,
01:33:13
◼
►
you end up with something that gets better mileage
01:33:16
◼
►
than a gas vehicle that isn't as expensive as a full electric
01:33:19
◼
►
and that's what you've ended up with for a long time
01:33:21
◼
►
and it'll continue to live on.
01:33:23
◼
►
So that's how I came to my answer.
01:33:26
◼
►
- Marc-Andre Weibesen writes, "Since you are all car fans
01:33:30
◼
►
and each one of you owns at least one console,
01:33:32
◼
►
I wonder, do you enjoy racing games?
01:33:34
◼
►
If so, which one is your favorite?"
01:33:36
◼
►
Let's go with the reverse order, Jon.
01:33:41
◼
►
- This is about being a car fan,
01:33:43
◼
►
so I bet they mean like, you know,
01:33:45
◼
►
Gran Turismo and Forza and stuff like that.
01:33:48
◼
►
But I think the only racing games I've ever really enjoyed
01:33:53
◼
►
are, you know, the arcade kart racing games,
01:33:57
◼
►
so Mario Kart, obviously,
01:33:58
◼
►
Diddy Kong Racing was a favorite back in the day.
01:34:01
◼
►
I did play some of the Wipeout series,
01:34:04
◼
►
which Marco will talk about in a second.
01:34:07
◼
►
- They never really grabbed me that much.
01:34:11
◼
►
The racing game I have been most into
01:34:13
◼
►
was Mario Kart Double Dash,
01:34:15
◼
►
but in general, the whole Mario Kart series I liked.
01:34:19
◼
►
So I guess the answer to this question is,
01:34:21
◼
►
in terms of racing games with like realistic cars,
01:34:23
◼
►
I've never been into one.
01:34:25
◼
►
I've like, I've never gotten, gone down that rabbit hole.
01:34:30
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm with you on pretty much all that.
01:34:31
◼
►
I know the kind of racing games
01:34:34
◼
►
that are like the super realistic racing simulators,
01:34:36
◼
►
like, you know, like Forza or Turismo or whatever.
01:34:40
◼
►
Like, I know what those are.
01:34:41
◼
►
I've played them before.
01:34:43
◼
►
I have never found them to be fun.
01:34:45
◼
►
I think there's a, it's really hard
01:34:49
◼
►
to make this kind of game realistic and fun
01:34:53
◼
►
to a general audience, you know?
01:34:55
◼
►
Like, if you're super into racing realistically,
01:34:59
◼
►
then it might be fun to you,
01:35:00
◼
►
but like, I think to a general audience, that's not fun.
01:35:03
◼
►
And so I prefer the games that are optimized for fun
01:35:07
◼
►
and don't go for realism basically at all.
01:35:11
◼
►
And so, you know, Mario Kart is fantastic.
01:35:15
◼
►
I think Mario Kart is probably the best example series,
01:35:20
◼
►
and I'm talking about like basically
01:35:20
◼
►
the entire series of Mario Kart.
01:35:21
◼
►
Like, it's basically the best example series
01:35:23
◼
►
of like fun racing.
01:35:26
◼
►
Also 'cause like, for me, a major part of racing fun
01:35:30
◼
►
is battle racing.
01:35:31
◼
►
I love racing with weapons.
01:35:32
◼
►
And that's always been a very fun category.
01:35:35
◼
►
And so like Mario Kart is a very good example of that,
01:35:38
◼
►
very accessible to lots of people.
01:35:39
◼
►
You know, multiplayer is also very important
01:35:41
◼
►
to the fun of racing games for me.
01:35:43
◼
►
So multiplayer battle racing is my ideal.
01:35:47
◼
►
That's the most fun to have with a racing game for me.
01:35:50
◼
►
I find Mario Kart very, very fun.
01:35:51
◼
►
Wipeout, I found more fun as a single player thing
01:35:54
◼
►
'cause I just never could find anybody to play with me.
01:35:56
◼
►
So I played a lot of single player Wipeout.
01:35:59
◼
►
And that was fun too.
01:36:02
◼
►
That's, it's also, Wipeout, I had fun doing things
01:36:04
◼
►
like time trials, like trying to get your time better.
01:36:07
◼
►
And I recognize people are gonna say immediately like,
01:36:08
◼
►
that's what's fun about other racing games.
01:36:10
◼
►
But yeah, I know, I know.
01:36:11
◼
►
But I don't find the driving mechanics
01:36:13
◼
►
of realistic racing games fun.
01:36:15
◼
►
But I do like, you know, things that are like futuristic
01:36:18
◼
►
or cool or just comically ridiculous.
01:36:20
◼
►
Like I really enjoyed, back on the original Xbox,
01:36:23
◼
►
I really enjoyed the early Burnout games
01:36:26
◼
►
because those were just like completely ridiculous,
01:36:28
◼
►
like arcade racers where like, you know,
01:36:31
◼
►
you drive your car and those are the ones
01:36:32
◼
►
that had the ridiculous crash sequences.
01:36:34
◼
►
Like you'd crash your car into like as many other cars
01:36:37
◼
►
as possible to get points and they would like,
01:36:38
◼
►
do like slow-mo, like bullet time of the car crashes
01:36:41
◼
►
and you see everything breaking apart.
01:36:43
◼
►
And that was really cool for 2005 or whatever.
01:36:46
◼
►
Yeah, so like, I like fun racing games like that.
01:36:52
◼
►
I don't like realistic racing games.
01:36:54
◼
►
And I especially like battle racing multiplayer games.
01:36:58
◼
►
And for me, Mario Kart is the best example of that.
01:37:01
◼
►
- I completely, wholly and entirely agree with Mario Kart.
01:37:05
◼
►
I have played Gran Turismo on and off in the past
01:37:08
◼
►
and it's fun, I guess.
01:37:11
◼
►
I don't know, it seemed like a lot of work,
01:37:12
◼
►
like upgrading your car and earning new cars
01:37:14
◼
►
and stuff like that.
01:37:15
◼
►
I'm going to give you two really bad answers
01:37:19
◼
►
and then I'm going to redeem myself.
01:37:21
◼
►
First of all, I played a crapload of Carmageddon,
01:37:26
◼
►
which was apparently 1997. - That was awesome.
01:37:29
◼
►
- I loved that game, which by probably any metric
01:37:34
◼
►
was not a very good game, but I loved it.
01:37:36
◼
►
- Oh no, it was terrible.
01:37:38
◼
►
But there's a whole category of games that are like,
01:37:40
◼
►
not good, but very fun.
01:37:42
◼
►
- And so Carmageddon was a great example of that.
01:37:46
◼
►
I believe this was DOS, if I'm not mistaken, it was so old.
01:37:50
◼
►
I also really, really, really loved and played
01:37:53
◼
►
probably more of than almost any other human,
01:37:57
◼
►
wave race for the Nintendo 64.
01:37:59
◼
►
- Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
01:38:01
◼
►
That's not the other racing series that I really like.
01:38:04
◼
►
Both the original and Blue Storm.
01:38:05
◼
►
I think Blue Storm was head and shoulders the better game,
01:38:08
◼
►
but I did actually get pretty heavily into Blue Storm
01:38:10
◼
►
until I started getting frustrated by the RNG
01:38:13
◼
►
of the waves killing my lap times.
01:38:15
◼
►
I like things to be predictable in a racing game
01:38:19
◼
►
and waves are just not.
01:38:20
◼
►
And I get that's the fun of the game,
01:38:22
◼
►
but eventually I got, like Margot was saying,
01:38:24
◼
►
I do time trials in Mario Kart.
01:38:26
◼
►
I would do time trials in wave race
01:38:30
◼
►
and play against the computer players.
01:38:33
◼
►
It just always annoyed me when a perfect run was ruined
01:38:35
◼
►
by like a rogue wave that hit at the wrong time.
01:38:38
◼
►
- Yeah, and so I loved Wave Race 64.
01:38:41
◼
►
I didn't even realize that there was a Game Boy version
01:38:43
◼
►
until just a minute ago getting the link for the show notes,
01:38:45
◼
►
but I loved Wave Race 64.
01:38:47
◼
►
I played the snot out of that game.
01:38:49
◼
►
And at the time, seeing what appeared to be
01:38:51
◼
►
pretty realistic wave physics in a video game
01:38:54
◼
►
was mind blowing, like you kids these days, born in 1991,
01:38:59
◼
►
you don't understand how amazing this was.
01:39:01
◼
►
'Cause previously when you played a racing,
01:39:04
◼
►
or any game that involved water,
01:39:06
◼
►
the water was flat always, no matter what.
01:39:09
◼
►
And this thing, it seemed to actually have water,
01:39:12
◼
►
a lot more realistic water than anything else we had.
01:39:16
◼
►
And coincidentally, my final answer,
01:39:17
◼
►
which is the one that I think you guys
01:39:18
◼
►
would have approved of if you didn't approve
01:39:20
◼
►
of the other two, and it reads in the Wave Race 64
01:39:24
◼
►
Wikipedia entry, it reads the following.
01:39:27
◼
►
- Oh, I know what this is.
01:39:28
◼
►
- Originally referred to as F-Zero on water.
01:39:31
◼
►
And that is my final answer, F-Zero,
01:39:34
◼
►
which I played the ever living crap out of.
01:39:37
◼
►
I adored that game for the Super Nintendo.
01:39:41
◼
►
And I would play that forever if I could.
01:39:45
◼
►
And what was really interesting about F-Zero is,
01:39:47
◼
►
and I'm sure there's a term for this,
01:39:49
◼
►
and I don't know what it is offhand,
01:39:50
◼
►
but the vehicle was always in the exact same position
01:39:55
◼
►
on screen, it was the track that was rotating,
01:39:57
◼
►
like your view of the track was rotating around the vehicle.
01:40:01
◼
►
It was super, super weird, but I loved that game.
01:40:04
◼
►
And I played the snot out of it on the Super Nintendo
01:40:08
◼
►
when I was a kid, God, did I love that game.
01:40:11
◼
►
- Yeah, I played F-Zero too.
01:40:12
◼
►
I would lump that in with Wipeout
01:40:14
◼
►
in a similar kind of futuristic racing thing.
01:40:16
◼
►
- The only interesting thing I remember about F-Zero,
01:40:19
◼
►
I mean, obviously they have the F-Zero theme cards
01:40:21
◼
►
in Mario Kart, so they kind of live on
01:40:22
◼
►
and there's the F-Zero courses in Mario Kart.
01:40:25
◼
►
But the F-Zero Nintendo 64 game was,
01:40:27
◼
►
my memory serves, 60 frames per second.
01:40:29
◼
►
- Which was unheard of on Nintendo 64
01:40:32
◼
►
because it struggled to do like 15 or 20 frames per second
01:40:36
◼
►
in most normal games.
01:40:37
◼
►
So they sacrificed graphical fidelity for frame rate,
01:40:39
◼
►
which I always respected them for.
01:40:41
◼
►
- Yeah, and I remember when that came out,
01:40:43
◼
►
and everyone knew that that was one of the things
01:40:45
◼
►
that made it special.
01:40:46
◼
►
And yeah, I mean, it was,
01:40:48
◼
►
the tracks were really basic, like geometric.
01:40:50
◼
►
They're basically driving on a tube.
01:40:51
◼
►
Hey, it's a tube.
01:40:52
◼
►
Like, it was super simple.
01:40:54
◼
►
But to see that smooth motion
01:40:56
◼
►
for this very high speed racing game,
01:40:58
◼
►
that was pretty fun.
01:40:59
◼
►
I give them a lot of credit for that.
01:41:00
◼
►
I've never gotten too into F-Zero.
01:41:02
◼
►
Like, it's always been a fun thing I play
01:41:03
◼
►
for a few minutes and then I don't care anymore
01:41:06
◼
►
because it hasn't captured my other desires
01:41:09
◼
►
for a racing game with the battle or stuff like that.
01:41:12
◼
►
But it is a very well done game.
01:41:13
◼
►
I gotta give credit for that.
01:41:15
◼
►
- I would suggest, I wish they would bring back Wave Race
01:41:17
◼
►
because Blue Storm was a pretty amazing game.
01:41:21
◼
►
The original one was a little clunky
01:41:23
◼
►
and then it has a standard 64.
01:41:24
◼
►
But Blue Storm, because if you're into racing games
01:41:27
◼
►
and you think like, oh, I play realistic racing games,
01:41:30
◼
►
I play the arcade racing games,
01:41:31
◼
►
I kind of like racing games.
01:41:33
◼
►
It is a different experience
01:41:35
◼
►
than I've ever had in any video game
01:41:36
◼
►
because the waves are such a factor.
01:41:38
◼
►
Like you can't just ignore them
01:41:39
◼
►
and they're not just scenery.
01:41:41
◼
►
They are what you're doing.
01:41:42
◼
►
You have to anticipate, look at, and play the waves.
01:41:46
◼
►
And it's not true of most other racing games.
01:41:48
◼
►
Even things with tracks that change or whatever,
01:41:50
◼
►
they're fairly predictable
01:41:51
◼
►
and not like the moment to moment thing that you're doing.
01:41:54
◼
►
Kind of like a skiing game or a snowboarding game
01:41:59
◼
►
or anything like that.
01:42:00
◼
►
Again, similar racing games where you have to play the hill.
01:42:02
◼
►
But at least the hill, the hill is the hill.
01:42:04
◼
►
It doesn't change shape that much.
01:42:05
◼
►
The waves are ever changing.
01:42:06
◼
►
That's what you're playing when you play the racing game.
01:42:09
◼
►
Yeah, there's the course and there's the buoys or whatever.
01:42:12
◼
►
You have to go between, but you're playing in the water
01:42:14
◼
►
and that is so different.
01:42:15
◼
►
And so some people I think find disconcerting
01:42:17
◼
►
'cause they think they're good at racing games
01:42:19
◼
►
and then they play Wave Race and they just, they stink.
01:42:21
◼
►
And they're like, "Well, this game sucks.
01:42:22
◼
►
How can you do anything
01:42:23
◼
►
when the waves knock you all over the place?"
01:42:26
◼
►
If you have a GameCube lying around, check it out.
01:42:28
◼
►
I hope they bring that game back.
01:42:29
◼
►
I don't remember if they ever brought back a port
01:42:30
◼
►
for another one of the platforms, but they should.
01:42:33
◼
►
- I should, in top four style,
01:42:35
◼
►
I should give honorable mention to Cruisin' USA,
01:42:38
◼
►
which is probably the best arcade racing game
01:42:40
◼
►
that's ever been.
01:42:41
◼
►
Don't at me.
01:42:42
◼
►
- Oh, come on.
01:42:43
◼
►
- I thought you were gonna say Hydro Thunder
01:42:44
◼
►
before we reached that zero. - That was my next one.
01:42:46
◼
►
I loved Hydro Thunder,
01:42:47
◼
►
which was just Cruisin' USA on water.
01:42:50
◼
►
And Hydro Thunder was,
01:42:51
◼
►
both of them are really terrible by any true metric,
01:42:54
◼
►
but I loved that both of them.
01:42:55
◼
►
- Oh, and speaking of, you know, so many racing games,
01:42:57
◼
►
Super Sprint, do you remember that?
01:42:59
◼
►
- No. - You don't remember that.
01:43:00
◼
►
That's before your time.
01:43:00
◼
►
I don't know, am I getting the title right?
01:43:02
◼
►
Anyone in the chat remember Super Sprint?
01:43:03
◼
►
So it was a four-person arcade cabinet,
01:43:06
◼
►
kind of like Gauntlet,
01:43:07
◼
►
where all four people would stay around the same screen.
01:43:09
◼
►
And there were four steering wheels.
01:43:11
◼
►
And it was a top view of a track,
01:43:13
◼
►
like a static top view of the track.
01:43:15
◼
►
So you were looking down on the track.
01:43:16
◼
►
- Oh, this does look familiar.
01:43:18
◼
►
- With these little tiny cars on it,
01:43:20
◼
►
and you would drive the cars around the course.
01:43:22
◼
►
And it was a dirt track.
01:43:24
◼
►
And you're in, basically,
01:43:26
◼
►
they look like remote control cars,
01:43:27
◼
►
'cause they're remote control buggy cars.
01:43:29
◼
►
These are the big cars they're modeled on.
01:43:30
◼
►
I don't know if you get what the dirt track cars are called.
01:43:33
◼
►
And of course you would skid around turns
01:43:35
◼
►
'cause dirt is loose.
01:43:36
◼
►
And to go around each turn, you would spin the wheel,
01:43:40
◼
►
and they were on bearings.
01:43:41
◼
►
Like the wheel would spin. - Yes, yes, yes, yes.
01:43:44
◼
►
Oh, I remember this. - So you'd go around
01:43:44
◼
►
a 90-degree turn, and you'd spin the wheel,
01:43:46
◼
►
and it would be spinning like 17 rotations as you go around.
01:43:49
◼
►
It was totally unrealistic,
01:43:50
◼
►
but it was so fun to spin the wheels
01:43:52
◼
►
and just massively oversteer and then correct
01:43:54
◼
►
and countersteer as your little buggies.
01:43:56
◼
►
And you could see everyone else on the course.
01:43:58
◼
►
It was like doing slot cars on dirt on a static thing.
01:44:01
◼
►
I don't know, anyway, I had a lot of fun with the game
01:44:03
◼
►
from spinning the wheel.
01:44:04
◼
►
And the unique, very low-tech, here's the whole course,
01:44:08
◼
►
and you could see every single car on it.
01:44:09
◼
►
Just drive your little car now.
01:44:11
◼
►
- Oh, wow, that was a fun trip down memory lane.
01:44:13
◼
►
Actually, a lot of this episode
01:44:15
◼
►
was a fun trip down memory lane.
01:44:17
◼
►
- Also, you're totally wrong.
01:44:19
◼
►
The best arcade racer like that is Daytona USA.
01:44:23
◼
►
- No, no. - No, it was mostly
01:44:25
◼
►
after my time in the arcades.
01:44:27
◼
►
Was that multiplayer or two-player?
01:44:28
◼
►
- Yeah, it was the time of the sake of Saturn.
01:44:30
◼
►
So it was like the mid-'90s to late '90s.
01:44:33
◼
►
- 1993 limited release, full release in 1994.
01:44:38
◼
►
Was that set alongside somebody at a second cabinet?
01:44:40
◼
►
- Yeah, so you could link up to either four
01:44:43
◼
►
or maybe even eight of them,
01:44:44
◼
►
and it would cost a dollar per play.
01:44:47
◼
►
It was like the expensive game in the arcade
01:44:50
◼
►
'cause they were these big new machines.
01:44:52
◼
►
But multiplayer at Daytona USA was a lot of fun.
01:44:55
◼
►
If you could convince anybody else to spend a dollar on it,
01:44:57
◼
►
it was a lot of fun.
01:44:58
◼
►
Thanks to our sponsors this week,
01:45:00
◼
►
Betterment, Molecule, and Mack Weldon,
01:45:03
◼
►
and we'll talk to you next week.
01:45:04
◼
►
(upbeat music)
01:45:07
◼
►
♪ Now the show is over ♪
01:45:09
◼
►
♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪
01:45:12
◼
►
♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
01:45:13
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:45:14
◼
►
♪ Oh, it was accidental ♪
01:45:16
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:45:17
◼
►
♪ John didn't do any research ♪
01:45:19
◼
►
♪ Marco and Casey wouldn't let him ♪
01:45:22
◼
►
♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
01:45:24
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:45:25
◼
►
♪ Oh, it was accidental ♪
01:45:26
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:45:28
◼
►
♪ And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM ♪
01:45:33
◼
►
♪ And if you're into Twitter ♪
01:45:36
◼
►
♪ You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S ♪
01:45:41
◼
►
♪ So that's Casey List M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M ♪
01:45:46
◼
►
♪ N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-N-S-I-R-A-C ♪
01:45:51
◼
►
♪ U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A ♪
01:45:54
◼
►
♪ It's accidental ♪
01:45:55
◼
►
♪ It's accidental ♪
01:45:57
◼
►
♪ They didn't mean to accidental ♪
01:46:01
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:46:02
◼
►
♪ Tech podcast so long ♪
01:46:07
◼
►
- The new 3-series, the new BMW 3-series,
01:46:10
◼
►
has no stick shift in the United States,
01:46:12
◼
►
and apparently it's only going to have it
01:46:13
◼
►
on the small motors overseas.
01:46:15
◼
►
- The M3 still has it though, right?
01:46:17
◼
►
- They haven't said one way or the other.
01:46:19
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm pretty sure the M3 still does.
01:46:21
◼
►
I think that might've been the backslide that I mentioned.
01:46:23
◼
►
Like, there was gonna be no sticks anywhere,
01:46:25
◼
►
and then there was a couple of strategic backslides,
01:46:27
◼
►
and I think a stick on the M3 was one of them.
01:46:29
◼
►
- It seems like the M3 would be the last BMW
01:46:32
◼
►
to offer a stick in the US.
01:46:34
◼
►
Outside of the US, I don't know,
01:46:35
◼
►
'cause people buy sticks outside the US
01:46:36
◼
►
for different reasons, but in the US,
01:46:38
◼
►
I would bet the M3 is the very last BMW car to have it.
01:46:42
◼
►
- Now, that I would probably agree with.
01:46:43
◼
►
- Or maybe the M2.
01:46:45
◼
►
Now that I think about it,
01:46:46
◼
►
I forgot they have a billion different cars now,
01:46:48
◼
►
so maybe now that they have smaller M cars,
01:46:51
◼
►
maybe the M2 would be the last one to have it.
01:46:53
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm not sure.
01:46:54
◼
►
I don't think they've said anything
01:46:55
◼
►
about the M3 that I have seen,
01:46:57
◼
►
but I mean, it says here BMW announced Tuesday
01:47:00
◼
►
that it will drop the manual transmission
01:47:02
◼
►
from its gas-powered platforms
01:47:03
◼
►
in the newest 3 Series lineup.
01:47:05
◼
►
Makes me so sad.
01:47:06
◼
►
They were supposed to hold out.
01:47:07
◼
►
They were supposed to be the ones
01:47:08
◼
►
that held out longer than anyone else,
01:47:10
◼
►
and they failed us.
01:47:11
◼
►
- As soon as you stop buying them,
01:47:12
◼
►
they're like, "Well, we don't need them anymore.
01:47:13
◼
►
"Casey stopped buying BMWs."
01:47:15
◼
►
- That's true.
01:47:16
◼
►
I'm sorry, everyone.
01:47:17
◼
►
It's all my fault.
01:47:19
◼
►
They would have only made it in white.
01:47:22
◼
►
- What are you gonna do, John, when the Accord is next?
01:47:24
◼
►
- Oh, they're gonna hold,
01:47:25
◼
►
the cheap cars are gonna hold on way longer
01:47:27
◼
►
than the fancy cars.
01:47:28
◼
►
Like I said, Honda moves slowly.
01:47:31
◼
►
So they're just not,
01:47:33
◼
►
they're just sheer inertia
01:47:35
◼
►
in the fact that it takes them a really long time
01:47:36
◼
►
to do anything.
01:47:37
◼
►
I feel like it'll hang on for a surprising amount of time.
01:47:41
◼
►
Maybe not in the Accord,
01:47:42
◼
►
but like the Civic and the Type R,
01:47:46
◼
►
like just because it takes them a long time
01:47:49
◼
►
to change anything.
01:47:50
◼
►
So I think I'll be able to buy at least one more Accord
01:47:54
◼
►
at some point.
01:47:56
◼
►
- Speaking of which,
01:47:58
◼
►
I got my new tires, remember,
01:48:00
◼
►
that I mentioned?
01:48:02
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
01:48:02
◼
►
- They're working great,
01:48:05
◼
►
except for I have my alignment thing
01:48:07
◼
►
that I have to deal with,
01:48:08
◼
►
which drives me insane.
01:48:09
◼
►
I honestly envy people who can't tell
01:48:12
◼
►
when their car is out of alignment,
01:48:14
◼
►
but I can tell,
01:48:15
◼
►
and it really bothers me.
01:48:17
◼
►
So I gotta get that done.
01:48:18
◼
►
But now my wife messed up one of her tires,
01:48:22
◼
►
so we're spending a lot of time at the tire store.
01:48:26
◼
►
Oh yeah, those Boston winters, man.
01:48:29
◼
►
Yeah, living in the Northeast the best.
01:48:31
◼
►
- It's not winter though.
01:48:33
◼
►
- I know it's not winter there yet,
01:48:34
◼
►
but it's the winters that destroy your roads, isn't it?
01:48:38
◼
►
And the plows that are removing your 18 tons of snow.
01:48:41
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, you see the roads in front of my house,
01:48:43
◼
►
it's ridiculous.
01:48:43
◼
►
They're repaving a lot of stuff,
01:48:45
◼
►
just obviously not like the residential street
01:48:47
◼
►
in front of my house.
01:48:48
◼
►
But the major roads,
01:48:49
◼
►
a lot of them are getting repaved.
01:48:50
◼
►
And when they're in the process of repaving,
01:48:52
◼
►
that's how you destroy your rims as you bang over
01:48:56
◼
►
helpfully spray painted manhole protrusions
01:49:00
◼
►
at 50 miles an hour on a major highway.
01:49:03
◼
►
It's like, oh, thanks, you spray painted it pink now.
01:49:04
◼
►
How am I supposed to navigate these five manhole covers
01:49:07
◼
►
that are all in a pattern that it's impossible for me
01:49:09
◼
►
to avoid if I'm in this lane?
01:49:12
◼
►
- Yeah, just makes me sad that the manual is leaving.
01:49:14
◼
►
I mean, I know that it's coming.
01:49:17
◼
►
I know it's a thing, but I enjoy it.
01:49:20
◼
►
And everyone is quick to tell me
01:49:22
◼
►
how they're oftentimes less efficient,
01:49:24
◼
►
how they're oftentimes slower than a modern automatic,
01:49:27
◼
►
that modern automatic's very good.
01:49:29
◼
►
I know the ZF8 speed is very good,
01:49:31
◼
►
but it's more fun for me to drive with three pedals.
01:49:34
◼
►
That's what I like.
01:49:36
◼
►
And you should let people enjoy things.
01:49:38
◼
►
- I think you're still gonna have that option
01:49:40
◼
►
in a lot of cars,
01:49:41
◼
►
but they're gonna become increasingly fewer choices,
01:49:44
◼
►
and they're gonna become increasingly higher end sports cars.
01:49:46
◼
►
Like Porsche is probably not gonna stop offering them
01:49:48
◼
►
for a while in some of its cars.
01:49:50
◼
►
Maybe not all of its cars,
01:49:51
◼
►
but maybe the smaller ones like the Cayman or something.
01:49:55
◼
►
I'm guessing there's gonna be options like that,
01:49:58
◼
►
or maybe like a Miata.
01:49:59
◼
►
There's gonna be options where
01:50:01
◼
►
you will still be able to get sticks,
01:50:03
◼
►
but 20 years ago, you could get a stick
01:50:06
◼
►
on lots of different cars,
01:50:08
◼
►
and just now you can get them on very few.
01:50:11
◼
►
We're still gonna have options for a while, I think,
01:50:13
◼
►
but it's not gonna necessarily be cars that you want
01:50:17
◼
►
or that you want to spend the money for.
01:50:19
◼
►
- Yeah, like the BRZ, like those throwback type cars
01:50:22
◼
►
where it's like a small traditional sports car.
01:50:24
◼
►
Speaking of the BRZ, by the way,
01:50:25
◼
►
the 2018 Accord beat the BRZ around the track
01:50:30
◼
►
in the lighting lap.
01:50:32
◼
►
- So that thing needs a bigger motor badly.
01:50:34
◼
►
- Oh, I could have told you that.
01:50:35
◼
►
I've driven one.
01:50:36
◼
►
They're hilariously underpowered.
01:50:37
◼
►
- But still, that's kind of embarrassing
01:50:38
◼
►
for a sporty looking car.
01:50:41
◼
►
- That was pretty funny, though.
01:50:42
◼
►
Also, I mean, this is kind of against
01:50:45
◼
►
the way we tend to do things,
01:50:47
◼
►
but there's also the old car option.
01:50:50
◼
►
You could keep a car in your garage
01:50:53
◼
►
that is your old Nissan 350 white thing
01:50:57
◼
►
with the wheels falling off.
01:50:58
◼
►
You could totally--
01:51:00
◼
►
- You've conflated three different cars,
01:51:02
◼
►
two of which I owned and one of which I did not.
01:51:04
◼
►
I am very impressed.
01:51:05
◼
►
- Yeah, 350 is the modern numbering.
01:51:07
◼
►
It was 300 back in the case you had it.
01:51:10
◼
►
- I had a 300ZX, but it was my Saturn
01:51:12
◼
►
that the wheel fell off, and then there exists a 350Z,
01:51:15
◼
►
which I have never owned.
01:51:18
◼
►
Anyway, but I'm sure all three of them were white.
01:51:21
◼
►
That's what matters.
01:51:22
◼
►
But yeah, so the point is you could always
01:51:23
◼
►
just buy a stick car for fun driving
01:51:26
◼
►
on the side or on the weekends,
01:51:27
◼
►
or just make it your regular car
01:51:28
◼
►
and just tolerate the maintenance.
01:51:30
◼
►
A lot of people do that.
01:51:31
◼
►
That's totally an option.
01:51:32
◼
►
If I really wanted to buy a stick car today,
01:51:36
◼
►
I could go try to find one today,
01:51:38
◼
►
or I could go buy my MR2 and drive it slowly
01:51:42
◼
►
around town as its death trap.
01:51:45
◼
►
I can do that. I have that option.
01:51:46
◼
►
I wouldn't recommend it necessarily,
01:51:48
◼
►
but that option exists.
01:51:49
◼
►
You don't have to be driving a stick all the time
01:51:53
◼
►
or as your everyday car,
01:51:54
◼
►
and it doesn't have to be a new car
01:51:56
◼
►
for you to still have this as a thing you can do
01:51:58
◼
►
when you wanna have some fun.
01:52:00
◼
►
- That reminds me, I have not caught up
01:52:02
◼
►
with any of my YouTube subscriptions,
01:52:04
◼
►
of which I do not have many,
01:52:06
◼
►
but one of the regular car reviews that I've seen
01:52:11
◼
►
has been posted in the last month or two
01:52:13
◼
►
is a 300-wheel horsepower MR2,
01:52:15
◼
►
which I'm sure is right up your alley.
01:52:18
◼
►
And how do they do this?
01:52:21
◼
►
- I'm gonna guess the answer is turbochargers.
01:52:23
◼
►
- Yeah, I think that is exactly the right answer.
01:52:26
◼
►
Now, if you were listening to this listener
01:52:30
◼
►
and you have never seen--
01:52:31
◼
►
- They installed some large pipes in the back.
01:52:34
◼
►
- That's a turbocharger.
01:52:35
◼
►
If you've never seen regular car reviews,
01:52:37
◼
►
it is pretty deeply offensive,
01:52:39
◼
►
and that's kind of the shtick.
01:52:43
◼
►
So understand what you're getting into.
01:52:45
◼
►
I find it interesting and actually fairly well-written
01:52:50
◼
►
if you can get past all the misogyny,
01:52:53
◼
►
which may or may not be for show.
01:52:56
◼
►
I can't tell if it's legitimate and real
01:52:58
◼
►
or if it's not. - Doesn't really matter.
01:52:59
◼
►
At a certain point, it does not matter.
01:53:01
◼
►
- Yeah, fair point. - For sure.
01:53:03
◼
►
- So anyway, so the dude that does it
01:53:05
◼
►
has an appearance of being extremely misogynistic,
01:53:08
◼
►
so be forewarned.
01:53:09
◼
►
But I do think the reviews are interesting,
01:53:12
◼
►
and he, I think it was an English major in college
01:53:15
◼
►
or something like that, so he makes these really interesting,
01:53:17
◼
►
often literary comparisons to these cars
01:53:20
◼
►
that I never would have expected.
01:53:21
◼
►
But I have not watched this particular video,
01:53:23
◼
►
but it is apparently a 300 horsepower MR2.
01:53:26
◼
►
I think this is the era that you cared for, right, Marco?
01:53:28
◼
►
- Yes, it is.
01:53:29
◼
►
- See, there you go.
01:53:30
◼
►
So I'll have to watch that later.
01:53:31
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I have so much homework this episode.
01:53:32
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What the hell's going on?
01:53:36
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- Boy, that is a nice-looking car.
01:53:37
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Although the problem is it's a nice-looking car
01:53:40
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from some angles, not from all angles.
01:53:43
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That's kind of the problem all '80s and '90s cars have.
01:53:46
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Looking back on old cars, some of them have timeless designs,
01:53:50
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some of them have sort of time-full designs,
01:53:54
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some of them have more time-sensitive angles than others.
01:53:59
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- I don't know.
01:53:59
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- But I still would love to drive one of these sometime.
01:54:01
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I've still never driven one.
01:54:03
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- It's gonna drive like a noisy, low Honda Civic.
01:54:06
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- I know, yeah, I know.
01:54:08
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Maybe it's probably better
01:54:09
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if I haven't ever driven one.
01:54:10
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I think maybe that would ruin the appeal for me
01:54:11
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'cause I would realize--
01:54:12
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- 'Cause it was never actually a really good car
01:54:14
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and it's old and--
01:54:16
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- Right, right.
01:54:18
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But it has T-tops, man.
01:54:19
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Does anybody even make T-tops anymore?
01:54:22
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- They do. - Nope.
01:54:22
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- Porsche makes them.
01:54:24
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Porsche makes a Targa, which is basically a T-top.
01:54:25
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- Targa's not, it's not the same.
01:54:28
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- It's close enough.
01:54:29
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- Is it just like the Boxster with a T-top, basically?
01:54:31
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- No, it's not the same.
01:54:33
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- A removable hard roof thing.
01:54:35
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- Right, but there's no T to it.
01:54:37
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The entire roof comes out.
01:54:40
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- Targa, T-A-R-G-A.
01:54:41
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- With no T, you miss the joke.
01:54:45
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I thought, didn't Porsche make one
01:54:47
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that actually had a T in it at one point?
01:54:49
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Years and years ago,
01:54:50
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American New Generation, I don't know.
01:54:51
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- Maybe, maybe.
01:54:53
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I just now realized that YouTube honors
01:54:55
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the backward, forward, and play, pause keystrokes
01:55:00
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from Final Cut Pro.
01:55:01
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So J, K, and L.
01:55:02
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J to go back, K to play, pause, and L to go forward.
01:55:05
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- Do you think those are from Final Cut Pro?
01:55:07
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Well, what are they from, Mr. Fancy?
01:55:09
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- Oh, God, you would.
01:55:11
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- Sorry, that's not that.
01:55:12
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- You monster.
01:55:13
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[door closes]
01:55:15
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[BLANK_AUDIO]