00:00:02 ◼ ► I don't think I've really come to grips with this whole filming car videos thing quite yet,
00:00:09 ◼ ► because all I can think about is all the ways that the footage I have is not enough and will never work and is all
00:00:39 ◼ ► I should be fiddling around in Final Cut right now. In fact, if you just find me dropping off the call, just just roll on.
00:00:52 ◼ ► Do you think you would ever reach the point where you wouldn't feel all panicked and insecure about the video clips that you have so far?
00:01:25 ◼ ► that's probably true of most people who make videos on a deadline. Like, you're never gonna have enough time or
00:01:31 ◼ ► enough people or enough gear to get all of the shots you want exactly the way you want them and
00:01:38 ◼ ► you're always gonna have to make up for something that you didn't get or that's wrong or that doesn't fit in
00:01:48 ◼ ► That's gonna happen every single video you make. I think that's just part of making videos.
00:02:00 ◼ ► inevitability that will probably happen to every video and you'll find a way around it and it'll be fine.
00:02:05 ◼ ► Just lower your standards like DeMuro. You don't have some footage? Sit in front of a room and shoot yourself.
00:02:09 ◼ ► Yeah, I had footage of me driving, but I lost it. So here's me not driving. Let me tell you what it was like.
00:02:18 ◼ ► Title. No, I hear you and I think in a serious answer to your actually very interesting thought
00:02:29 ◼ ► in a perfect world where I had absolutely no deadline, what I would be doing is I would be filming and then
00:02:41 ◼ ► figuring out was that good? Was it perfect? Was it good enough? Where does it fit? What is the story arc, etc?
00:03:04 ◼ ► glancing at the footage to make sure it isn't an utter disaster and then going on faith that I can somehow
00:03:18 ◼ ► incredibly stressed right now because I feel like I have a bunch of mediocre video and no good video. And
00:03:31 ◼ ► But I think the difference, like I said, is that this time I'm doing the reverse of what John recommended.
00:03:45 ◼ ► I do have more time, but I have no more skill than I had or only marginally more skill than I had before. And
00:03:51 ◼ ► it's it stressed me out some fears. You need to mentally sever the connection between production values and
00:03:57 ◼ ► popularity of the video and success of the video if you consider popularity be success because there is not as much connection as you think
00:04:04 ◼ ► there is. Like I mean I used Demir's example. Casey, did you see the video I'm referring to where he really lost all the driving footage
00:04:14 ◼ ► Here's what it was like to drive." Like just, you know, the audio quality in his videos,
00:04:24 ◼ ► Like it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Like just, you know, I think you're
00:04:34 ◼ ► Well, and again, I think you're right, but man, it's hard not to. Plus I still haven't licked the
00:04:40 ◼ ► the audio thing. I need to find a lavalier mic or however you pronounce it. Don't lick your microphone. Oh, is that the tip?
00:04:54 ◼ ► But I think audio is more important to get technically good than video in even in a video
00:05:00 ◼ ► because the audio like bad audio is makes the video really hard to watch whereas bad video is
00:05:13 ◼ ► But anyway, I would I would just go to say like, you know, John's right. Like there when you're making video
00:05:25 ◼ ► you know big YouTube channels and big TV producers and what they produce and you're comparing yourself as a
00:05:36 ◼ ► You know most big channels and producers have staffs that produce video like it's as you know
00:05:45 ◼ ► and you know you make it work you figure out a way or you or you have some somebody help you as much as possible but
00:05:56 ◼ ► There is no ceiling on production values like no matter like you're never gonna reach a point where you think
00:06:06 ◼ ► no, that's never gonna happen like you're always gonna want to get more and more and more and more and
00:06:10 ◼ ► Because you aren't like the entire BBC with an infinite budget like that's you're never gonna reach the level
00:06:24 ◼ ► you have to aim for basically like best bang for the buck and I mean that both in money and also in time and complexity and
00:06:34 ◼ ► when you know, I basically bought a whole bunch of gear that I ended up using between zero and one times and
00:06:41 ◼ ► You're never gonna you know reach perfection technically but you just have to reach the point where
00:06:47 ◼ ► You can say this is good enough and that's gonna be really hard to decide and it's gonna be really hard to finally make that
00:06:57 ◼ ► but but the reality is what people care about is what you're saying and how it sounds and
00:07:03 ◼ ► A little bit of the video but if there's flaws in the video who cares welcome to YouTube everything on YouTube is like, you know
00:07:24 ◼ ► Long shots of themselves talking and everything and it's fine. It's totally fine. Even the high-end channels are doing that
00:07:41 ◼ ► But looking at the video my thinking is that they shot the thing in 8k and then they're just crop zooming
00:07:51 ◼ ► tripod getting both of them and every time there was a point of interest because they shot at 8k they had the resolution to be
00:07:57 ◼ ► able to zoom in on peeling the sticker off or zoom in on a person's a reaction and it didn't look gross because
00:08:05 ◼ ► like they do that in movies sometimes but like really what you want as a camera person and get the close-up and like do inserts and
00:08:15 ◼ ► We don't have the staff. We don't even though that were you know bazillionaires and have these amazing big channels
00:08:30 ◼ ► like and that's just like he should be your inspiration because it's not like he doesn't care but like the
00:08:36 ◼ ► Quality that he's putting out by just using like his iPhone and a cruddy microphone. It's not great, but it's fine
00:08:44 ◼ ► It's not no one's watching his videos and saying your video was good, but I wish there was more dramatic lighting
00:08:48 ◼ ► It's like can you see what he's talking about? Can you hear him? Does it sound not awful good thumbs up?
00:09:09 ◼ ► Or even the right kind of like, you know big long stand to hover it over my head during it, you know in the shot
00:09:15 ◼ ► Yeah, and or a camera person to skillfully avoid having the boom in the shot if I tried that, you know
00:09:22 ◼ ► The right way to get really good audio to the best of my knowledge is to have somebody holding a hyper cardioid
00:09:28 ◼ ► Short-range mic right above your head pointed at your mouth the whole time that you will get the best audio that way sure
00:09:34 ◼ ► But you need you know, you need more equipment and especially generally you need some you need a person to be doing that
00:09:45 ◼ ► What it comes down to really is you need a person to be holding something or looking at something or operating something for you
00:10:27 ◼ ► It was oh wait. No. No, I forgot. I tried that didn't it wasn't as good you did the lab Mike thing
00:10:38 ◼ ► Rode wireless lavalier mic which is not a good idea. Those things are not very good for their price. See this is the problem
00:10:47 ◼ ► microphone mega review but for lavalier mics because I've I've solicited recommendations more than once and
00:10:53 ◼ ► Nobody really seems to have experience in a surprisingly enough who knew with lavalier mics in a loud moving
00:11:00 ◼ ► Automobile now granted the the I would turn the AC either offer all the way or you know
00:11:17 ◼ ► Fairly confident that it will fit the bill and I'm not the kind of person that likes to do the like
00:11:27 ◼ ► Try all these out in your not in your electric car mind you I need it in your in your dyno juice mobile
00:11:35 ◼ ► in order to tell me which one is the one to buy so I can just buy that and be done with it because the
00:11:39 ◼ ► Audio the best audio I've found so far is by having a brand new GoPro within like six inches of my mouth
00:11:46 ◼ ► Which I'm sure is making everyone's skin crawl, but it actually is the best audio I found in car
00:12:09 ◼ ► but the problem is lower the problem is what's driving the mic or or what's receiving the mic signal like
00:12:17 ◼ ► limit on you know when it converts with the gain back to digital whenever like that's you're exceeding the
00:12:27 ◼ ► so the way to fix clipping is to lower the input signal or to use an analog limiter and
00:12:37 ◼ ► I believe only when the mic mode is being used so you might need to do some some wiring conversion to make that work, but
00:12:44 ◼ ► Anyway, that that is not a problem with the mic that is a problem with something, you know down the down the chain there
00:12:56 ◼ ► You know proximity is your friend when it comes to having good sound in a in a loud environment
00:13:05 ◼ ► It's just you know, see them signal noise ratio. Like you are the signal the background is the noise
00:13:17 ◼ ► And so sometimes, you know when you're in a car, it's kind of hard to get away from noise
00:13:20 ◼ ► So just get really close to the mic adjust your you know gain on whatever this is going into so that it's not clipping
00:13:30 ◼ ► Yeah, and to go back a little bit, you know, one of you said it might've been John, you know
00:13:43 ◼ ► Where he ended up rendez-vousing with MKBHD as MKBHD was was reviewing a Lamborghini and sure enough
00:13:51 ◼ ► There were like five people there helping him do this and that did make me feel both deeply miserable
00:13:58 ◼ ► Because I know I will never get to that point and also really really happy because it made me feel like okay
00:14:04 ◼ ► If it takes five people to come up with something that good then maybe one person can come up with something
00:14:14 ◼ ► They're also they they were using their iPhone to shoot the front of the thing because again
00:14:27 ◼ ► Just use our iPhone or whatever and then the iPhone shots because they're shooting the opposite direction
00:14:31 ◼ ► You could see the camera on the tripod and you could also see like this bored person off to the right like now paying attention
00:14:37 ◼ ► To them making the video just like fiddling around on the computer with no interest in whatever they're doing
00:14:47 ◼ ► They just want to see the computer like I mean, maybe I feel like that could have told I got a move
00:14:51 ◼ ► But it's not gonna reshoot it. Like it's just this is the one and done. That's just this is the thing
00:14:55 ◼ ► We're opening the box. We're excited about it and we're done and then I didn't look at the view count on the video
00:14:59 ◼ ► But I bet it's pretty hot. So don't worry about it 1.2 million. Yeah, so you're fine. You're just fine
00:15:04 ◼ ► What's the view count on the Jamiro video where he lost the driving foot? I don't remember which one it was
00:15:11 ◼ ► I know exactly what you're thinking of, but I don't remember what the video was. I'll look at a pan
00:15:15 ◼ ► I know I just I really needed a I needed a pep talk and I appreciate it because I feel like I
00:15:26 ◼ ► Is far beyond the means of my ability which is probably in the grand scheme of things a healthy thing
00:15:39 ◼ ► Basically a day, you know, I have all day tomorrow to record with it and that's basically it
00:15:56 ◼ ► I got to keep just putting the pieces together with the utter crap that I've filmed and try to make something out of it
00:16:03 ◼ ► But golly it's tough and in and I feel like the only way I'm gonna get really a better at this is to do more and
00:16:10 ◼ ► More and more of it, but that's hard when I only have access to but so many cars especially for the duration of time
00:16:21 ◼ ► I mean, I could I could potentially get access to two cars for a few hours like DeMuro does but I am nowhere near that point
00:16:28 ◼ ► Right. He does what he has in a few hours. That should be he should be your inspiration
00:16:31 ◼ ► His video by the way has 900,000 views the one where he deleted all the driving footage
00:16:43 ◼ ► You know because this is the first video that you're doing after your go after you've got independent you've placed this this like
00:16:49 ◼ ► Additional standard or burden on it of like how good it has to be but it's still only your third one of these
00:16:58 ◼ ► Don't worry about that. You just became self-employed like that actually like you're self-employed as a podcaster
00:17:04 ◼ ► The video stuff is currently your hobby. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. And so it doesn't need to be
00:17:10 ◼ ► amazing this time compared to how it was last time which was already pretty decent because it's still just your third one of these and
00:17:46 ◼ ► First of all, like I think it actually is kind of fun to have like modern reviews of old cars
00:17:56 ◼ ► so they like they've got to watch stuff like that because actually, you know, pretty fun and also
00:18:00 ◼ ► Doing that will be practice for you to get better and more confident for when you get press cars
00:18:21 ◼ ► Cut yourself some slack and realize it's not gonna be perfect because it's your third one
00:18:25 ◼ ► Listen to the third episode of any podcast anybody has ever done like the very first time they started podcasting
00:18:33 ◼ ► It's and like, you know, everyone learns you get better, but it takes time. It takes practice and that's what you're doing
00:18:38 ◼ ► But you're you're at the very beginning stage of that really so cut yourself a break deal with what you got and you'll get better over time
00:18:51 ◼ ► You know doing old car reviews. I am totally into that and had this been something I was really
00:19:00 ◼ ► Considering doing when we got rid of Aaron's car, which was I think almost to the day a year ago now
00:19:04 ◼ ► I I absolutely would have reviewed the crap out of that Mazda 6 which was probably the best car that our family will ever own
00:19:11 ◼ ► I mean that thing was bulletproof for 10 years and we put almost no money into it and it was a great car from the moment
00:19:25 ◼ ► I'm like my BMW was just been sitting rotting because I still haven't done anything with it
00:19:29 ◼ ► But I think I might know what I might be buying except maybe not and that's kind of the arc of this forthcoming video
00:19:37 ◼ ► This this video is both answering and answering all of my questions and raising all new ones
00:19:46 ◼ ► Stephen Hart writes us to say that the patent office has a policy to reject any patent of a perpetual motion machine unless there is
00:19:54 ◼ ► A fully built working model. This was like a one-off comment that John made if I'm not mistaken
00:19:59 ◼ ► Apple's patent on their little keyboard condoms like you can patent stuff. It doesn't mean that it actually
00:20:04 ◼ ► Works the to do the thing that you say it's supposed to do so Apple patented this thing to keep crap out of your keyboard
00:20:13 ◼ ► You can get a patent on it anyway, and I was saying you can patent anything even perpetual motion machines
00:20:17 ◼ ► Which I'm sure I had in my mind for this specific reason because perpetual motion machine is such a
00:20:24 ◼ ► But because it's such a popular thing and like in the history of humanity like everyone thinks they're always thinks
00:20:30 ◼ ► They're making a perpetual motion machine. I bet tons of people tried to patent perpetual motion machines
00:20:36 ◼ ► So the patent office in the US has a specific rule that says if you get something that basically is a perpetual motion machine
00:20:42 ◼ ► Just flat-out refuse like special case rule. We're annoyed with your stupid purple perpetual motion machines
00:20:48 ◼ ► Just know you have to show us a working you have to actually show us a working thing that actually
00:20:53 ◼ ► Works the way you say it does which is not true of other patents. And so this is the Wikipedia thing goes on
00:20:58 ◼ ► Even if a patent is granted this is what I was getting at does not it does not mean that the invention actually works
00:21:03 ◼ ► It just means the examiner believes that it works or was unable to figure out why it would not work another dumb thing about the patent
00:21:09 ◼ ► System patent examiners who are just these people are expected to make a determination to say do you believe this works or?
00:21:24 ◼ ► So what I was getting at is still holds despite my perpetual motion machine not being a valid one
00:21:30 ◼ ► Just because they've been so inundated and annoyed by that and the hundreds of years of the patent office
00:21:34 ◼ ► You can get a patent on all sorts of things does not mean it does what it but you say it does
00:21:48 ◼ ► Like window air conditioner expert and this time somebody wrote in who claims to be a former patent examiner
00:21:58 ◼ ► I forget whether it was Steven Hart here the same guy though. Same guy same air conditioning guy works in patent office. Oh, yeah
00:22:11 ◼ ► No, and you could make up anything an email to anybody. Yeah, we're so gullible. We write us anything
00:22:18 ◼ ► Please don't encourage them. All right moving on 2018 keyboards will not be used to repair the 2016 2017 MacBook Pros according to Joe
00:22:33 ◼ ► when asked if Apple stores and Apple authorized service providers will be permitted to replace the second gen keyboards in
00:22:38 ◼ ► 2016 2017 MacBook Pro models with the new third gen keyboards if necessary Apple said no
00:22:43 ◼ ► The third generation keyboards are exclusive to the 2018 MacBook Pro then they quietly added under their breath. Please give us more money
00:22:50 ◼ ► This actually kind of makes sense as we were learning more about these machines as people are getting them and taking them apart
00:22:55 ◼ ► That one of the major changes of these machines is that the battery size is pretty different the new ones have a bigger battery
00:23:05 ◼ ► Redesigned or moved slightly to fit that bigger battery. Well, the battery is part of the top case
00:23:17 ◼ ► Weighs the exact same as last year's model, even though it has like a 10% bigger battery
00:23:22 ◼ ► So they speculate that they made up the weight difference by reducing some of the metal mass in the top case
00:23:28 ◼ ► So whatever the case may be it does seem like the top case is different enough with these 2018 models
00:23:34 ◼ ► that it probably is not a trivial job to fit one onto the previous generation MacBook Pros and
00:23:47 ◼ ► Fit this this particular new keyboard in the top case it comes with on the old computers now
00:24:02 ◼ ► These silicone membrane things that protects the keys from dust they are choosing not to take that option and I'm not that surprised
00:24:08 ◼ ► You know when Apple does these kind of extended repair programs or when they have a flaw like this
00:24:22 ◼ ► We will repair it for free up to X years and then you just have to buy a new laptop if you won't don't want this
00:24:35 ◼ ► And that's what they're gonna do on the on this too. Like, you know, if you have a 2016 2017
00:24:40 ◼ ► Your keyboard will probably never be fully a hundred percent immune to it the to these problems
00:25:06 ◼ ► Likely difference in top case but doesn't make it suck any less for the owners of those two generations of laptops
00:25:16 ◼ ► A quote-unquote bad model or whatever because like you're just even with the repair program
00:25:23 ◼ ► Maybe you have to bring it back one or two more times and that's just annoying to have to bring it back and be without
00:25:30 ◼ ► You feel like I wish I had a laptop that I just bought and then used for a while and it was fine
00:25:38 ◼ ► you know that the likelihood of you having to bring it back in is exactly the same as the likelihood was from the time that
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00:27:25 ◼ ► So Dave Lee who I'm not personally familiar with but seems like he is no schmuck by any stretch of the imagination
00:27:31 ◼ ► has a YouTube channel where he reviewed or maybe not even reviewed but but made a video about the
00:27:50 ◼ ► Throttle itself and not use the full potential of the i9 processor because it gets too hot too quickly
00:28:03 ◼ ► Justifiably, he's pretty grumpy about that because the whole idea behind getting this maxed out MacBook Pro is
00:28:14 ◼ ► Anywhere and as someone who is dabbling with video editing myself, I can sympathize with this
00:28:36 ◼ ► I believe he was like exporting a rendering or something in Final Cut Pro 10 or whatever the case maybe it doesn't really matter the specific
00:28:41 ◼ ► Specifics of the test but he tried it again and it turned out it was like 30 percent or something like that better when it
00:28:57 ◼ ► Processors gonna run a lot quicker when it's cold just like you know a motor runs a lot
00:29:01 ◼ ► He's stopping it from throttling right first of all the time scales on his test was it was like a 30 minute thing
00:29:18 ◼ ► And then and that's why he was running it against like the old the previous generation that had two fewer cores and the one with
00:29:26 ◼ ► Presumably because the new one with six core was was throttling itself down to a lower clock speed and the other one was not throttling itself
00:29:33 ◼ ► As much and then when you put in the freezer the new one one handily over the old one, right?
00:29:47 ◼ ► Certainly wouldn't be happy if I spent a whole pile of money on this machine that that quickly therm
00:29:53 ◼ ► You know thermal throttles that's or you know throttles itself because of thermal issues
00:30:03 ◼ ► Perhaps not as much as we're seeing and I can't decide if I'm actually upset about this or not. So I don't know
00:30:12 ◼ ► This is just anecdotal testing but there's more numbers for more people. I think the red the red ones got got more specific
00:30:20 ◼ ► Well, the geekbench numbers all look good, but geekbench doesn't take 30 minutes to run
00:30:24 ◼ ► So at what point does the throttling kick in does it just kick in if you max all six scores with you know?
00:30:32 ◼ ► So this is one person did a test where it was throttling down to 800 megahertz, which is bad
00:30:41 ◼ ► I was trolled down to 2.5 gigahertz after less than one minute with maximum fan speed on so this is this goes to something Marco mentioned
00:30:55 ◼ ► so this was a test in which they artificially made the fans blow at max speed the entire time just crank them to max and
00:31:01 ◼ ► Did a test and it still throttled down to 2.5 gigahertz after less than a minute on this prime thing
00:31:15 ◼ ► But anytime you look like a prime number generator or some other kind of like hotspot producing thing. It's probably
00:31:20 ◼ ► Not representative of real loads, but I think the final cut export probably is representative of real loads. So
00:31:43 ◼ ► doesn't quite have enough cooling to realize the full performance of all six cores under
00:31:56 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean this if it was just Dave Lee's video then I would have assumed he got a bad one
00:32:09 ◼ ► It seems like this is just this model of laptop with this processor. I would like to know has anybody posted whether the
00:32:28 ◼ ► That this is not a process shrink like this six core is made on the same process as the previous four core, right?
00:32:35 ◼ ► so you're not getting well we could fit more cores in because everything is smaller and
00:32:42 ◼ ► Like I have to imagine I don't know what the actual numbers but I have to imagine the six core processor
00:32:47 ◼ ► Puts out more heat than then the four core does because it's it's made on the same process
00:32:53 ◼ ► You can't get blood from a stone, right? So and I don't think they removed a whole bunch of cash and made the GPU smaller to wedge in the other cores or anything like that or even if they did it's obviously not making up for it and the cooling capacity is determined mostly by
00:33:06 ◼ ► How fast can the fans move air and how many heat pipes can you snake from the little contact patch and you mean?
00:33:14 ◼ ► The inherent design trade-offs like what trade-offs are made for the 15 inch. There's a certain envelope of size weight
00:33:42 ◼ ► And so let's design everything around that but Intel as we have later in the topics that we ever get to it Intel has
00:33:51 ◼ ► talk talk talk talk as Marco said last show of these 14 nanometer processors and it's entirely conceivable that just
00:34:02 ◼ ► But if you really max out all six cores and maybe the GPU as well that even at maximum fan speed in a fairly hot room
00:34:09 ◼ ► It's gonna throttle like that's my laptop suck everybody. Let's get a Mac Pro and be happy
00:34:16 ◼ ► Yeah, and to understand this problem it helps to I'll go over briefly some of the factors here
00:34:26 ◼ ► Which I believe stands for thermal design power and this is basically like the maximum amount of heat expressed in watts
00:34:44 ◼ ► they realized as an optimization like you can use something you can use dynamic clock speeds to
00:34:49 ◼ ► Be able to like boost one core super high for a little while as long as it doesn't hit thermal limits
00:34:56 ◼ ► If the other cores aren't doing that much and if all the cores are super busy like they are and like
00:35:07 ◼ ► You can still usually boost the speed a little bit until it gets too hot and then you got to slow it back down
00:35:12 ◼ ► And that's what turbo boost does turbo boost is what manages that it's what offers these like higher speeds sometimes
00:35:18 ◼ ► but not all the time higher speed of a certain workloads like single threaded ones, but not all workloads, but
00:35:23 ◼ ► With all that what is expected for from every processor every processor advertises its base clock speed
00:35:36 ◼ ► And then usually it'll say you know it can turbo boost up to whatever it usually it's like another
00:35:46 ◼ ► I thought I saw a turbo boost number of 4.5 or something crazy like I think it's 4.8. It's it's ridiculous. It's very very high
00:35:54 ◼ ► So with a properly engineered computer and a properly engineered processor and a properly working cooling system the base clock
00:36:13 ◼ ► It shouldn't you the processor should never have to dip below the base clock if it ever did for the base clock something is wrong
00:36:19 ◼ ► With that design or that hardware simple as that so there was also an article posted today about the 13-inch on
00:36:46 ◼ ► As you run benchmarks to do things so you can see whether throttling or not you can see how much wattage
00:36:51 ◼ ► It's drawing you can see how hot it's getting but what they're showing with Intel power gadget the 13 inch is
00:37:02 ◼ ► But that's it like the whole rest of their benchmark it it is hovering above you can see like there's like a gray line
00:37:07 ◼ ► That shows where it is like it's hovering above that so the 13 inch doesn't appear to have this problem in this base model configuration
00:37:19 ◼ ► So it's kind of hard to know if this is a problem with all these or some of these or none of these
00:37:28 ◼ ► When properly working these processors should be able to maintain at least their base clock no matter what and then as
00:37:36 ◼ ► thermals allow be able to go between the base clock and the turbo boost max speed as they kind of
00:37:42 ◼ ► Sit at or near that thermal ceiling during load and the problem with this 15 inch is that?
00:37:48 ◼ ► It can't even sustain its base clock like the 15 inch i9 according to these reports from these
00:37:54 ◼ ► multiple people now is that it can't even sustain the base clock after a very short time and
00:38:00 ◼ ► That means something is really wrong that like that is not normal that is a major problem
00:38:06 ◼ ► Well wasn't that true also of the previous 15 when you plugged in an external monitor its base clock went down, right?
00:38:13 ◼ ► So it's not as if this is unprecedented, but but it wouldn't yeah, so I I run into that problem last summer
00:38:17 ◼ ► Where yeah, but this was not talked about that much, but I believe the base clock was like
00:38:24 ◼ ► 2.4 or something and it would base it would clock itself down to 2.0 something like that
00:38:28 ◼ ► What yeah when when an external monitor was was connected it would just like the base clock would just get reduced
00:38:40 ◼ ► I checked mine. It did it too, and I had the maxed out 15 X from last year from from 2017 and
00:38:49 ◼ ► I wouldn't have probably noticed if I didn't if people didn't point it out to me, so sorry for everybody who I just ruined your CPU
00:38:55 ◼ ► People don't expect that those people expect when I'm plugged into power like at my desk
00:39:01 ◼ ► That's when I'll get the maximum power out of my laptop because hey everything's plugged in you don't have to worry about draining your battery
00:39:10 ◼ ► It doesn't matter that you're plugged in actually you're getting worse performance than if you weren't connected to your big monitor
00:39:17 ◼ ► Laptops in in some ways they make better desktops than ever you know in set like connectivity is better than ever
00:39:27 ◼ ► But it seems like the thermal situation just getting worse over time like the where they're even more annoying
00:39:32 ◼ ► Thermally because they keep getting thinner and thinner and thinner and smaller and smaller, but the the processor
00:39:41 ◼ ► There is one difference that I noticed looking through the Intel spec sheets between the two years
00:39:46 ◼ ► The 15 inch CPUs they they have a TDP of 45 watts, and that's that's unchanged between the years
00:39:51 ◼ ► But there's something on Intel spec sheets called configurable TDP down, and they explain this as basically
00:40:00 ◼ ► Set the processor to actually have a lower TDP than 45 watts if they want to and last year CPU could be set as low
00:40:07 ◼ ► As 35 watts the 2018 doesn't have that option. It doesn't list configurable TDP down is available anymore
00:40:20 ◼ ► so they just let it fly and you know are seeing what happens which is not a good thing if that's what's going on here and
00:40:35 ◼ ► They both have configurable TDP down and this year the TDP down is actually lower last year was 23 watts this year
00:40:44 ◼ ► This is probably not affecting the 13, but again. We don't have enough data to tell yet
00:40:51 ◼ ► It's like like I said last year's did the same thing that you could decide to be angry about or not well
00:41:07 ◼ ► But yeah, but the 800 megahertz one like it's really mostly going from 2.9 to 2.5 with with the the base thing on this
00:41:14 ◼ ► It depends on what they're doing like this is a prime 95 benchmark like I don't know of what anyone is ever going to do
00:41:23 ◼ ► Where you're really maxing everything out, and maybe it's also hot and maybe you also have a bad
00:41:32 ◼ ► they're actually great if you remember the original MacBook Air it had these thermal problems as well and
00:41:37 ◼ ► And 800 megahertz was as low as it could go that was back when I believe it was still called speed step the frequency adjusting
00:41:47 ◼ ► I think it was 1.6, but it was going down to 800 megahertz yeah, so anyway like laptops are always
00:41:53 ◼ ► potentially thermally compromised they all come with the ability to slow themselves down when they get hot and
00:42:01 ◼ ► When you sell a laptop you can't control exactly how hot it's going to get people use them on their laps on top of a
00:42:07 ◼ ► puffy comforter on top of a pillow and it blocks all the vents and the things get super hot and basically the machines have to
00:42:11 ◼ ► Protect themselves right if people don't know or don't care about that then their computer is running at half speed and tough luck right?
00:42:24 ◼ ► Maybe not max out everything because I think it's a high demand to say max out everything on the GPU and all the cores and every
00:42:34 ◼ ► There's a name for this kind of test would like to try to melt my CPU type tests where everything is super hot I?
00:42:50 ◼ ► It should be able to sustain that because it can with four cores as you noted in that little graph showing the four core things
00:42:55 ◼ ► Staying above its base frequency and ping-ponging back and forth, but never going below base
00:43:04 ◼ ► That's why I was literally slower than the four car ones because it was throttling lower the the four car one could maintain its base
00:43:10 ◼ ► And this one was going well below its base and taking longer, so why are you paying for six cores like oh?
00:43:16 ◼ ► I have a lot of multi-threaded work. Well is it actually gonna complete your multi-threaded work faster
00:43:19 ◼ ► Do you keep the thermostat at like you know 52 degrees then maybe it'll do it, but so this seems like not a great situation
00:43:35 ◼ ► Then you're probably fine, and it probably will never throttle right are you running three hour render jobs?
00:44:00 ◼ ► It's like laptops are not the ideal Pro machines in many situations for a variety of reasons and also why?
00:44:06 ◼ ► Apple's particular trade-offs especially for the 15-inch are perhaps not ideal because they could have made a much thicker computer with better cooling and yada yada
00:44:26 ◼ ► See how long it takes and if it's slower than a four core return it and get a four core
00:44:39 ◼ ► These limitations of like well it advertises these high specs, and you're paying for these high specs in fact
00:44:47 ◼ ► You're paying quite a lot for these high specs, and you're buying it expecting these high specs
00:44:51 ◼ ► And then oh you actually can't use you you're not gonna get this performance if you actually try to use it all at once like
00:45:03 ◼ ► But when when you're talking about the highest end models for that are specifically advertised at doing sustained pro kind of work
00:45:13 ◼ ► The resources that you buy and that are advertised and then and the performance is advertised
00:45:18 ◼ ► Not actually being available all the time like turbo boost as I mentioned like turbo boost is is optional
00:45:28 ◼ ► Situations you can't use the turbo boost speed because that's what turbo boost is if you could always use the speed
00:45:42 ◼ ► But if you can't maintain the base clock that to me. It's basically it's false advertising
00:46:00 ◼ ► It can't do x and y at full speed if I plug it into a monitor like that which is a configuration specifically advertise and promote
00:46:25 ◼ ► My exception was only if you're using literally all the hardware so not just all six cores
00:46:30 ◼ ► but also the h.264 decoder and also every single execution unit on the GPU at the same time and the reason I say that is because
00:46:43 ◼ ► to be able to sustain a powerful GPU and all the cores and all the ancillary execution units and
00:46:50 ◼ ► Massive IO and like just light up everything like have you ever seen those things where they try to say, you know
00:46:56 ◼ ► Can you do run all the SIMD units all the intergenerates all the floating-point units all the GPU execution cores?
00:47:03 ◼ ► Like can you actually run and you know everything it wants to see like basically can you melt this thing?
00:47:14 ◼ ► Generating thing on all components because it's not representative of most real workloads probably any real
00:47:34 ◼ ► Giant brick because it's just too much power output right that these machines are designed
00:47:45 ◼ ► So they're relying on the fact that you're never going to be running all of it at once and that's the only place I'm giving
00:47:51 ◼ ► The exception if you light up everything I could say even on a pro machine and it with this size and weight trade-off
00:47:57 ◼ ► It's just not gonna happen. But if you're just using the CPU and not really isn't GPU. Yes
00:48:01 ◼ ► It should be able to sustain that and if you plug in a monitor and it auto throttles down from 2.4 to 2
00:48:12 ◼ ► Like I said using it on your lap and a pillow or something like that like or in just a very hot room
00:48:16 ◼ ► You don't have air conditioning this room that I'm in right now. It's probably 85, right this
00:48:23 ◼ ► So if you're in an 85 degree room and you think thermal throttles and you're super angry about it
00:48:33 ◼ ► Part of the way they get to this compromise. We talked about with battery life - is there over provision on battery life?
00:48:44 ◼ ► The battery life is like most of the time you just be tooling around and cores are blipping here and there right and you get the
00:48:49 ◼ ► Advertised battery life, but if you do any serious work for a certain period of time you don't that's how they get
00:48:56 ◼ ► That's what the trade-offs are which again argues for if you really want to have a laptop and you really need to do all that stuff
00:49:01 ◼ ► Apple needs to make different trade-offs for a laptop for you or you just get a desktop, but I
00:49:07 ◼ ► Maybe I guess maybe that's just repeating what you said in terms of like the the pro thing or whatever
00:49:26 ◼ ► Just that six cores like a Final Cut Pro export that uses all six course or an Xcode compile or something
00:49:35 ◼ ► Wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of related class-action lawsuit about this eventually because this seems
00:49:47 ◼ ► But we have to see more data because if you can get them to go in less than five minutes if you can get them
00:49:51 ◼ ► To go down to 800 megahertz. That's class-action lawsuit territory. But then again, maybe it's just this one guy
00:50:02 ◼ ► It's over like iPhone batteries because everyone buys iPhones that and it's so much more like
00:50:10 ◼ ► You can get the lawsuit about the broken keyboards only just barely started because they affect it affected
00:50:17 ◼ ► All of the laptops this is looks like it this looks like it's probably only gonna be affecting the highest end
00:50:28 ◼ ► Either it will never have a lawsuit or it will be like three years from now, but that's very unlikely for this
00:50:33 ◼ ► You know, I think I see your point about like tests. They're designed to max out everything and to heat things up
00:50:40 ◼ ► Although I don't necessarily I don't think I necessarily agree that that's that those should be permitted to fail
00:50:46 ◼ ► But when you look at like, you know, these tests are not throttling only under prime 95
00:50:51 ◼ ► These are throttling under Final Cut Pro as you mentioned so like that is not only a legitimate workload
00:50:56 ◼ ► But it's literally one of the workloads they promote this machine and market this machine to do right
00:51:18 ◼ ► Like it's not this isn't just gonna we can't just hand move this away and say well, this is an inherent problem with laptops
00:51:28 ◼ ► the solution here is gonna be like this configuration this machine at least has a serious design problem and
00:51:34 ◼ ► Whether they address it with faster fans, which by the way, congratulations and your machine just got louder. Is that really better?
00:51:46 ◼ ► Artificially making the fans run at max the whole time just to see does that solve the problem? The answer is no
00:51:50 ◼ ► Well, it helped the problem. It didn't didn't make the problem go away help but didn't but didn't solve right? I mean so it
00:52:05 ◼ ► Because if it's not faster than the four core, then what is the point of this machine again for your workload?
00:52:09 ◼ ► So like that that's all that really matters if it was faster than the four core but not but it still didn't match the numbers
00:52:15 ◼ ► In the box people would be angry because like oh it's supposed to do what it says in the box and you could probably sue
00:52:20 ◼ ► Practically speaking ignore all the nerd stuff if the six core doesn't do your work thing faster than the four core
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00:53:58 ◼ ► Moving away from the thermal thing for at least a moment now that we have all the benchmarks of all the different CPU configurations. I
00:54:04 ◼ ► Honestly, I'm kind of disappointed by how much faster the six core isn't than the four core in the 13 inch
00:54:15 ◼ ► but it's not it isn't as much faster as I would have expected before I saw, you know, all the all the
00:54:34 ◼ ► Again, we still are missing most good like long-term benchmarks. I still have no clue on battery life of either of these machines
00:54:53 ◼ ► The fact that these CPUs have more cores than they probably should at their process size
00:54:56 ◼ ► But you know, it's still the same TDP. So, you know that might not matter. So basically
00:55:11 ◼ ► I wonder if there'll be a market for people to manually disable two cores on their 15 inch to get
00:55:18 ◼ ► One thing I thought it to like so I for on my 2015 actually I wrote a blog post with us forever ago
00:55:25 ◼ ► Called turbo boost switcher Pro that it actually quotes my blog post on its product page, I guess but I ran tests and and basically
00:55:37 ◼ ► 2015 MacBook Pro and to see like what kind of effect does it have on performance and battery life? It's actually it's a it's a pretty
00:55:45 ◼ ► And and the utility is such that if you get the pro version it can automatically switch for you so you can do things like
00:55:53 ◼ ► without turbo boost whenever you're on battery and then when you're plugged in enable it again and the difference is is
00:56:21 ◼ ► Makes it when it's properly engineered in its thermal system makes it stay way below the TDP even under load
00:56:33 ◼ ► Or if you don't always need the massive amount of power you bought but you want to be able to turn it on selectively
00:56:42 ◼ ► This utility I don't think worked with them and I'm curious to revisit that and see like if it works with them now if it
00:56:52 ◼ ► You know it's it's long since overdue for Apple to add low power mode to the net to a new version of Mac OS and
00:57:00 ◼ ► An easy way to implement that in addition to you know like things like background service stuff and time machine slowing down and everything else
00:57:08 ◼ ► easy win number one is like on the 15 inch force the integrated GPU to be used as much as possible and
00:57:14 ◼ ► Turn off turbo boost like that if you're gonna do a low power mode like it actually is pretty compelling to have that option
00:57:21 ◼ ► I wish it was available to users on all the machines in some way even even if it's just exposed to some API and apps
00:57:31 ◼ ► Anyway, the other thing I'm were a little worried about with these with the thermal situation here
00:57:51 ◼ ► Things are gonna start getting a little bit out of whack little bit of alignment over time the cooling system of most computers
00:57:59 ◼ ► So what's gonna happen if these are barely holding on today when they're brand new what's gonna happen when they're like two years old
00:58:08 ◼ ► You know normally you'd expect like at that point you start maybe here in the fan a little bit more on your laptop
00:58:16 ◼ ► There's no headroom here for that and that I think worries me also long term for these machines
00:58:21 ◼ ► Thank you ever also you mentioned it a few times is the the extra power for the RAM and the bigger battery extra power means
00:58:33 ◼ ► You've got a you know a big GPU and that extra power going to that RAM and also possibly the four terabyte SSD if you get
00:58:40 ◼ ► That option that's more heat in a case that really has basically the same cooling solution as before those two little fans and the heat
00:59:01 ◼ ► Like so next the next round of laptops the next generation in addition to potentially having more ports, and you know
00:59:07 ◼ ► Bring back magsafe all of our wonderful dreams of what they could potentially do to make everybody happy right anyway fantasies whatever
00:59:14 ◼ ► But one thing they can actually definitely do and they totally should is have an option at the top end for a thicker laptop
00:59:24 ◼ ► You don't want it if you want lightweight and thin but make one make one thick heavy and powerful option right because
00:59:33 ◼ ► Maybe that wouldn't throttle with a six core right and it would automatically be faster than this one even with the exact same hardware in
00:59:45 ◼ ► That's a product that they don't make anymore the 17 inch used to fill that role had a PC card slot crying out loud
00:59:51 ◼ ► But it's gone. It doesn't have to be a 17 inch laptop, but it could people buy 17 inch laptops
01:00:00 ◼ ► That's a you know and I don't I didn't expect them to come with that now, but for the next generation
01:00:04 ◼ ► It's something they should definitely consider. They've kind of done that on the phones
01:00:12 ◼ ► And it's like wow we have so much more room for battery now and an OLED screen takes less power and voila the iPhone
01:00:20 ◼ ► Maybe they we need to find some sort of similar trend for them to follow in the laptop market to somehow make a thicker laptop
01:00:32 ◼ ► It's disappointing that you know after all this time of not really get why I guess wasn't that long
01:00:39 ◼ ► But it feels like it's been a long time without updates that you know we're finally given this this
01:00:45 ◼ ► Golden apple to consume this this wonderful golden egg to use and it's still got problems
01:01:01 ◼ ► What they're doing with the laptops now. I don't love this generation, which I've made very clear
01:01:06 ◼ ► But they have updated it every year. They have you they have not skipped a generation of CPU. That's available
01:01:16 ◼ ► The schedule that we want them to be updating the machines on they've and and the schedule they used to always update their machines on
01:01:24 ◼ ► Like we've been saying we've been complaining for years that lines were getting neglected
01:01:29 ◼ ► Entire CPU generations were being skipped and with the laptops. They're hitting the wall now. They are hitting every generation
01:01:37 ◼ ► They have updates they had they released this dumb generation in 2016. They made another one
01:01:43 ◼ ► 2017 and the here's one that's a little bit less dumb in some ways and more dumb others in 2018 like they're doing exactly what?
01:01:49 ◼ ► We wanted them to do in the sense that they are updating these laptops every year. That's great
01:01:57 ◼ ► Series of hardware generation like in its physical design and other choices that has a lot of problems and a lot of downsides
01:02:12 ◼ ► Even though that would be premature relative to their previous, you know durations of how long they they use these things
01:02:23 ◼ ► For all the complaints with the current one and instead they address the complaints in different ways and that's fine
01:02:42 ◼ ► Apple just dictates what it knows we actually want and never actually take customer feedback and doesn't really care what we think because they know best
01:02:57 ◼ ► Last couple of years like since the Mac Pro roundtable and and the pro workflows group and and the iMac Pro and things like that
01:03:05 ◼ ► I think they they seem to have a different mindset now a much more healthy mindset of oh crap
01:03:17 ◼ ► That that were getting increasingly distant from what our customers actually wanted and needed
01:03:27 ◼ ► But when you course-correct it takes a while for like the new products and new changes and stuff to actually get out into the world
01:03:37 ◼ ► Well like a year and a half ago now and it's probably not gonna be out for another year
01:03:47 ◼ ► It took them probably like two or three years for the iMac Pro to come out it they were probably
01:03:51 ◼ ► Developing this horrible generation of laptops for two or three years before it came out in 2016
01:04:01 ◼ ► As I mentioned on Twitter as John mentioned a couple weeks ago, like the Mac Renaissance
01:04:05 ◼ ► It does seem to be happening. It does seem like they have turned the ship. They are on the right track
01:04:17 ◼ ► So it kind of remains a big mystery as a whether they have Christ of course in the laptops or not
01:04:26 ◼ ► by the way related to getting getting what you what's printed on the box or whatever and
01:04:32 ◼ ► consumer expectations I think someone in earlier in the chat had mentioned that you know
01:04:36 ◼ ► It's just not how the world works if I buy a car with 300 horsepower. It always has 300 horsepower
01:04:44 ◼ ► Although I have some good news sometimes after you use a car for a while. It has more horsepower than when you bought it
01:04:49 ◼ ► So but anyway, no one dinos their cars and then certainly they're not measuring the horsepower at the wheels
01:04:55 ◼ ► So just continue to think that your car gets exactly through entered horsepower as advertised that they drive it off the lot
01:05:07 ◼ ► Let's talk about something that's really gonna cheer us up since we've been a little sad lately
01:05:18 ◼ ► I think which is part of the reason I wanted to put in the show is a public service announcement to other people
01:05:25 ◼ ► Apple if you didn't know has a thing in their photos application where you can take your photos and you can order a
01:05:31 ◼ ► Book like a bound like hardcover book with your photos printed inside them, which is a nice thing to do
01:05:41 ◼ ► They're a good nice alternative to making prints and then putting the prints in it for a while. You just make an actual book
01:05:49 ◼ ► and the way you would find out about this in the way that the person on Twitter found out about it is they went to
01:05:58 ◼ ► We're not gonna do this anymore. And after September 1st, we're not going to take any more orders for books
01:06:04 ◼ ► so if you didn't I wouldn't have found out unless I had gone to make a book right and normally I make a book like
01:06:08 ◼ ► once a year after I come back from my you know, Long Island vacation and I have photos and I make a book that's when I
01:06:25 ◼ ► because I have I've been printing books for my beach vacations and I've been going back in time for past years and printing a book like
01:06:32 ◼ ► I started from 2017 then I went backward to 2016 15 14 working my way back with your time
01:06:42 ◼ ► I did all sorts of stuff like that. But but you know, it's kind of like whenever you get around to it
01:06:46 ◼ ► It's kind of a time-consuming thing and whatever now that I know that they're canceling them. I'm making books like crazy
01:06:59 ◼ ► - I have to do all the years we went on beach vacations and all the major vacations and just I gotta get and
01:07:08 ◼ ► Just get your book from another place Apple's not the only company that makes photo books tons of places make photo books
01:07:13 ◼ ► photos has even has a thing where it's like a third-party plug-in system a terrible terrible third-party plug-in system for
01:07:28 ◼ ► But if we printed it snapfish or whatever, so you get different pricing you get different layout options
01:07:35 ◼ ► And I've had books printed not me personally about my wife and for school things and stuff at other other
01:07:49 ◼ ► I'm not gonna say tasteful because it just depends on your taste like this snapfish ones are tasteful, too
01:07:54 ◼ ► It's just it's just if you like put it this way if you like Johnny I've in his white room and all the featureless
01:08:00 ◼ ► Glass and aluminum hardware you like these photo books, and that's that's the aesthetic I go for in my books the layout I use is
01:08:15 ◼ ► I want pictures to be big so I'm gonna pick that one don't you what you want to pick is called garden blooms
01:08:24 ◼ ► Most of my pages are full page full bleed edge to edge top to bottom right to left photo
01:08:31 ◼ ► Right, but you also have the option to do two photos vertically or three photos vertically like you have lots of different options of just basically
01:08:38 ◼ ► Slicing up the page into regions. That's the way I like my books to me. I haven't found another
01:08:46 ◼ ► You know even worse to someone who is you know very picky about these type of things it
01:08:52 ◼ ► Will there's no way it's gonna match my existing books. It won't be exactly the same dimensions
01:08:55 ◼ ► It won't look the same so I need to go and print tons and tons of books before September 1st
01:09:01 ◼ ► go through all my photos and just slap them together and throw them into a book and get everything printed and I'm really sad about
01:09:09 ◼ ► Like certainly I can't print the books for next year and the year after in the year after right and so I'm gonna have this
01:09:15 ◼ ► Discontinuity my beautiful collection of books that are all like nice and neat in the same size and everything and then it's just gonna be
01:09:24 ◼ ► I don't I don't blame Apple for a stop like I'm sure they don't make a lot of money on this
01:09:33 ◼ ► You know give it a try before it's gone like I said the books are actually kind of expensive
01:09:40 ◼ ► And they're you know they're for gifts and stuff. They're interesting and unique like it's not like you
01:09:47 ◼ ► Just bought something off the shelf if someone gets something. They don't understand how you made this amazing one-off book
01:09:55 ◼ ► You know a little bit more pleasant than like the old style photo album with a bunch of
01:10:04 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't know. That's it. I'm just I'm just sad and and I'm spending hundreds of dollars on books
01:10:09 ◼ ► I can't wait until the official announcement on September 2nd that the demand for photo books has ramped up so much
01:10:24 ◼ ► Yeah, I do have some complaints about them like my main complaint books well the software for putting your software for putting your photos
01:10:31 ◼ ► Into books in photos is grim. It is real. I played complained about it before it is like
01:10:42 ◼ ► It's like a simple job of taking photos and putting them on two pages is made so difficult by bugs by misfeatured
01:10:47 ◼ ► But I just so much about it is terrible. I can't wait for you to use one of the like the web-based ones
01:11:08 ◼ ► So if you have two similar looking photos good luck figuring out which one is which without actually placing them
01:11:15 ◼ ► one one height just one single row of you know horizontally scrolling forever right and
01:11:20 ◼ ► You scroll to find the picture you want and you drag it up onto like one of the pages and a little book thing
01:11:26 ◼ ► Right and it loses your scroll position in the bottom thing. Oh, you know let me get that next picture
01:11:34 ◼ ► Which is everyone's favorite thing to do horizontally scroll to find where you are drag it up up nope you've lost your scroll position again
01:11:46 ◼ ► It's it's a bad interface, but anyway the actual books that you get printed my main complaint about them
01:11:52 ◼ ► Is they don't do a good job of aligning the dust jacket on the spine of the book right?
01:11:58 ◼ ► So you know dust jacket work they wrap around or whatever and they don't they let you do printing
01:12:01 ◼ ► I think they make you do printing on the on the spine of the book that says you know whatever Long Island 2016
01:12:06 ◼ ► If you look at where the printing is on all my different books as I sit in there on the shelf
01:12:28 ◼ ► They're willing to put in and they charge you like a dollar extra each page, so it adds up fast. Don't do that
01:12:32 ◼ ► But they look really nice anyone wants to come into my house check them out. I'll show you
01:12:41 ◼ ► I've always heard that like they really are high quality like it is kind of sad when an
01:12:55 ◼ ► we have like the same little like you know and I think it's blur or somebody it's one of the big one of those big
01:13:05 ◼ ► And I remember we kind of we kind of freak out really cool, but what if we have to like?
01:13:08 ◼ ► the size of our book would change and we have to find someone else who integrates with Instagram and and it's like
01:13:14 ◼ ► It was actually you know fairly scary and disruptive and the good thing is they didn't go out of business
01:13:23 ◼ ► You just said like you know the spines aren't gonna all line up. They're gonna be different
01:13:34 ◼ ► If they didn't have this service already and and somebody and there was like some rumor that came out
01:13:43 ◼ ► We would laugh it out of the room because like it would seem ridiculous that today's Apple would be like printing you
01:13:54 ◼ ► I think people would just file it mentally with one of those little things that Apple does for people who have more money than cents
01:14:04 ◼ ► Should do the photo book type stuff with the I life things is that back then Apple was very big about
01:14:10 ◼ ► We want you to have an experience that is Apple quality, and it's definitely a Steve Jobs thing
01:14:17 ◼ ► We looked at the photo books that are out there, and they're all terrible we wanted one
01:14:21 ◼ ► That's up to Apple standards, so we're doing one ourselves and now if you order a book from our software
01:14:34 ◼ ► The Apple quality experience we can't trust the third party to do this if we outsource it or use some vendor which of course
01:14:47 ◼ ► The quality of the product that you get so you get a Mac and you get I life and you get a photo book it
01:14:56 ◼ ► That's on the book, but then you can also opt to not have on the book because that's just the kind of company Apple is
01:15:02 ◼ ► Yes, they will watermark your thing with a little Apple and that not watermark your pictures
01:15:06 ◼ ► But put a little Apple logo on the back, but you can say you know what Apple don't do that
01:15:10 ◼ ► And that's what you should do by the way tell them not to do it because you don't want an Apple logo on your books
01:15:17 ◼ ► But certainly the Apple that would do it just because they couldn't stand the idea of any Apple customers having a less than Apple quality
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01:17:32 ◼ ► 3400 and a 50 millimeter prime having interchangeable lenses and an adjustable aperture means it seems like it would be useful
01:17:37 ◼ ► Can a camera that cheap be worth it compared to phone cameras? I don't know barely anything about the Nikon
01:17:53 ◼ ► worried about spending I think it was around $1,500 for my micro four-thirds camera and a
01:17:59 ◼ ► And I think it's a 25 millimeter prime which I think is the equivalent of a 50 millimeter prime if memory serves anyways
01:18:19 ◼ ► How thankful I am that I spent that money and that I use that camera anytime we have something that's even vaguely important
01:18:33 ◼ ► And I'm not trying to say that this particular camera is particularly better than any other camera
01:18:38 ◼ ► it may be quite a bit worse or better than the D 3400 and I'll let one of you guys chime in in a second and
01:18:50 ◼ ► Find it useful to have you know interchangeable lenses, but that's not even necessary really
01:18:54 ◼ ► But having a camera that can that can get a real wide-open aperture with really decent glass on the front of it can take
01:19:02 ◼ ► phenomenal pictures and I am so unbelievably proud of some of the pictures I've taken of my family and a lot of that has been
01:19:12 ◼ ► These same pictures would look near as good with an iPhone as they do with with my particular camera
01:19:19 ◼ ► That's just my two cents. I suspect you guys are gonna are gonna agree with me, but let's start with you Marco
01:19:27 ◼ ► First of all, I love the way this question was phrased is having a dedicated picture machine useful
01:19:45 ◼ ► Maybe it should be a Windows PC because Lightroom runs on Windows and you can build this giant crazy monster PC
01:20:21 ◼ ► You have to do firmware updates sometimes if you ever have to transfer the photos off of it onto your computer or phone or iPad
01:20:31 ◼ ► There are luxuries that you get with the phone camera that you don't get with any other camera
01:20:36 ◼ ► Things like you know, obviously connectivity being able to snap picture and immediately share it without using some weirdo Wi-Fi transfer app
01:20:48 ◼ ► Processing that an iPhone does you get things like automatic HDR you get things like different skin tone stuff you get certain
01:20:55 ◼ ► Stabilizations and you get really good video with surprisingly good sound right out of the iPhone
01:21:10 ◼ ► Make you want to take more pictures with the camera well put and it's always this constant battle because
01:21:17 ◼ ► It never stops being a pain in the butt. I have this battle with myself. I I used my good camera
01:21:34 ◼ ► But when I look at what all of my like super favorite photos are photos that are so good
01:21:39 ◼ ► That I would want to get them framed or photos that are so good that I use them as my desktop wallpapers
01:21:50 ◼ ► So there is certainly a quality argument on a number of fronts, you know, big cameras will just have way better resolution
01:22:01 ◼ ► They don't always but they they have the ability to have way better way better optics what they mostly give you though besides, you know
01:22:08 ◼ ► a much larger sensor and being able to capture more detail and lower noise and oftentimes, you know, just better everything
01:22:15 ◼ ► They also give you flexibility in what kind of optics you're putting on them, you know with your iPhone. I
01:22:24 ◼ ► High aperture like narrow aperture 29 millimeter perspective because that's all you're getting with your iPhone
01:22:30 ◼ ► If you happen to have an iPhone that has the 2x lens like the 7 plus 8 plus or 10 you can get
01:22:36 ◼ ► Two choices neither of which are that useful you have your default like 29 28 millimeter one
01:22:43 ◼ ► And then the 2x one is like a 40 or 45 millimeter one, which is like fine, but you know, it's not amazing
01:22:50 ◼ ► It's not a not a good portrait lens, you know, it's not it's certainly not a telephoto by any means
01:23:13 ◼ ► but when you when you want to do something that's outside of that that's like on the in a more specialized areas of
01:23:36 ◼ ► There's no way to match the quality of a camera or the optics when you have something that small not cheap
01:23:58 ◼ ► My camera would be at home and I would just have no way to capture them and I have my phone to capture those now
01:24:16 ◼ ► 3400 be worth it compared to phone cameras and this specific model. Yes, definitely because this is an APS-C sensor
01:24:33 ◼ ► Absolutely be worth it all the things that Marco said are true, but just to make sure that you don't end up buying like a
01:24:37 ◼ ► Camera with a tiny tiny sensor. It's like oh wow, you know this this camera doesn't take better pictures than iPhone
01:24:42 ◼ ► That's what you're worried about this specific model the Nikon D 3400 will absolutely take better picture
01:24:48 ◼ ► It'll be able to take pictures in situations where your phone just can't like because they just come out as a blurry mess
01:24:52 ◼ ► Because it's like it's too dim or you'd have to use the flash and they become at all gross
01:24:55 ◼ ► So yes, yes to the specific model with the 50 millimeter prime lens. You will take pictures. You could never take on your phone
01:25:02 ◼ ► If you have the camera with you and you think it's worth it. Yeah, it's only like 500 bucks
01:25:08 ◼ ► Like it's a good like to see these but you have to determine like Margaret said is but will you bring it with you?
01:25:20 ◼ ► Is this a time when I'm gonna bring the big camera or no if you never bring the big camera then obviously it's not worth it
01:25:29 ◼ ► This will be worth it in terms of the the quality that you get out of a $500 camera with an aps-c sensor. Yes
01:25:36 ◼ ► Erin Bushnell writes, I believe Sir Cusa mentioned doing more node JS development on a semi-recent episode of ATP FM
01:25:43 ◼ ► This was probably from like six months ago, but that's okay. What are his thoughts on what are his thoughts on nodes so far?
01:25:53 ◼ ► But I have done a semi reasonable amount of node for someone who never did it professionally
01:25:58 ◼ ► So I have thoughts on this but John you were the one addressed. What do you think about node?
01:26:01 ◼ ► Yeah, it was maybe was from six months ago, but I'm still doing node stuff as far as I'm doing any stuff. I
01:26:08 ◼ ► Think my first impressions haven't really changed I've been using it for about a year and a half or two years now
01:26:15 ◼ ► I'm coming from the pearl world obviously with most people aren't familiar with but it is is a particular kind of world it has a
01:26:46 ◼ ► For to package up software and reuse it which is why every node product has a million dependencies
01:27:10 ◼ ► You can share this the old thing was like oh there must be a pearl module for that because there was the pearl module for
01:27:14 ◼ ► Everything now people say that about node of course in the node world. There's not one node module for everything
01:27:30 ◼ ► One of the problems in those teams have is they made just too darn easy to contribute to contribute to CPAN
01:27:35 ◼ ► There was enough of a hurdle that you just didn't get random stuff, but NPM is just it's too easy to contribute
01:27:46 ◼ ► Then it's very difficult to tell out of the 800 NPM packages that claim to do this thing which one is
01:27:51 ◼ ► Not a virus is not written by someone who has no idea what they're doing and is actually maintained and is popular
01:28:17 ◼ ► Very different than it was in the pearl world where they would like very rarely break backwards compatibility even when adding new features
01:28:24 ◼ ► Whereas when I start to give an example when I started doing node, we're using mocha for testing
01:28:32 ◼ ► It might have been some other nonsense work, and then I took one of my original projects
01:28:37 ◼ ► I'm like oh I should update that and run it through our new CI or whatever so I grab the project
01:28:59 ◼ ► You know the the semantic versions and those are all backwards incompatible changes, right? I
01:29:13 ◼ ► Oh, you want to change from 2.0 to 3.0? That's just two years. That is a little bit ridiculous
01:29:21 ◼ ► Everyone who uses node has the same complaints is that there's there's too many MPM packages. Most of them are
01:29:30 ◼ ► Well-known decades old Perl modules that I'm used to like for performing a certain function like oh
01:29:40 ◼ ► Whatever you think the best is it is worse than it worse in terms of reliability speed features comprehensibility documentation
01:29:51 ◼ ► Everything was better in the Perl world for that perhaps not performance because Perl super slow, but you know, I mean
01:29:58 ◼ ► So I feel kind of like a cranky old man saying you whippersnappers you're making all these nonsensical mod
01:30:03 ◼ ► MPM packages with nonsensical names most of which are really bad and you break things too often and your documentation is bad and you
01:30:22 ◼ ► Like if people don't know node like it's JavaScript, right? But it's not JavaScript like it is in the browser
01:30:38 ◼ ► We don't need to use transpiling. We just you know use use ES6 straight up or like it's so much nicer and it's fast and
01:30:46 ◼ ► Despite me complaining about all the packages. Usually there you can find something to do what you want
01:30:53 ◼ ► if you're holding cranky like me and you find a package that does what you want and it seems like it's pretty popular and
01:30:59 ◼ ► Reasonably well maintained just don't look at the source because you'll get sad. But anyway
01:31:07 ◼ ► Everything you said is reasonable which maybe indicates that I'm becoming a cranky old man as well
01:31:12 ◼ ► But I mean when I was teaching myself node it was when it was getting really really popular. This was
01:31:22 ◼ ► It was getting really popular and I wanted to teach myself node. And so I wrote what I call camel which is my blogging engine and
01:31:28 ◼ ► Basically, once I wrote it I have barely touched it ever since because it's been pretty
01:31:36 ◼ ► Foolproof and that's not a challenge before everyone tries to break my blog. It's not a challenge. I'm sure there's problems
01:31:41 ◼ ► Yeah again, I'm sure there's problems. I'm not saying it's perfect. All I'm saying is I knew zero node
01:31:48 ◼ ► I knew JavaScript. Okay, but I knew zero node and within like a month or something like that
01:31:53 ◼ ► I was able to come up with an entire blogging engine. It's it's not the world's best blogging engine
01:32:04 ◼ ► I think it's really great and and I was I was and remain really pleased with how approachable it was
01:32:10 ◼ ► However, I echo everything you said John that it's easy to fall into one of the many traps that are set on either side of
01:32:18 ◼ ► The path you need to walk to you know get to have a successful node project. So I do I do quite like it
01:32:24 ◼ ► I think it has certain uses where it's really really good and certain uses where it's not as great but by and large
01:32:35 ◼ ► Oh, we didn't mention one more thing about the about NPM security not great. They are always getting you know
01:32:49 ◼ ► ESLint configuration module or something like that. I don't know. Anyway, there are controls on who can upload to
01:32:59 ◼ ► You know again package signing some form of authentication your github keys like it's all all the wonders of the modern open source world
01:33:06 ◼ ► But because so everyone has so many dependencies with NPM and the dependencies are small and so distant and so deep
01:33:16 ◼ ► 50% of the world uses and injects a malware into it and now you've infected a lot of people
01:33:31 ◼ ► Second one was node third one is the one I use now which isn't go the no one ran briefly
01:33:42 ◼ ► You're probably unlike that was like node version zero point seven or something like the
01:33:51 ◼ ► Like what are we up to now like node node nine or something like there's a new major version node like every five minutes
01:33:56 ◼ ► Yeah, I can't keep up like it even just hearing about like I don't even use it just hearing about it
01:34:04 ◼ ► JavaScript web framework and like the language they add major language features with every new every new version picks up something more from another one
01:34:14 ◼ ► Specs right major important features, and it's like you're still using that sucker. They added a sink away. What are you doing?
01:34:20 ◼ ► It's like when did they think of weight? It was like last week. It's like. Oh, they just added a sink weight. Okay, then
01:34:25 ◼ ► All right finally Gareth Thomas writes, and I thought this was a really clever question
01:34:42 ◼ ► What do you choose for those of you who cannot do mental math that means 1993 or newer?
01:34:50 ◼ ► Will start us off it took me about four and a half seconds to figure out the answer this question
01:35:14 ◼ ► I still think it looks reasonably modern today. I miss that car even the naturally aspirated version
01:35:22 ◼ ► And I would kind of wish I never sold it and I would definitely get a twin turbo version
01:35:58 ◼ ► And I actually was unable to find any DeLorean's within this price range, but you wouldn't want one. Yeah, probably not
01:36:19 ◼ ► unfortunately it was white and it also had like a hundred and fifteen thousand miles on it or something and
01:36:33 ◼ ► Yeah, you don't know what you're getting there because it's those aren't original parts anymore who knows what's in that thing right exactly?
01:36:53 ◼ ► Which is basically the new version of their massive high-power coupe is basically like an even bigger version of the 6 series
01:36:59 ◼ ► Yeah, the new 8 is just the 6, but they made the number 2 bigger just to make you spend more money on it exactly
01:37:15 ◼ ► four-year-old BMW out of warranty to try to own one 25 year old and trend even like if a car that old brakes
01:37:23 ◼ ► How do you fix it? Like who do you even go to you have to like you have to like have like
01:37:28 ◼ ► Special dealers that you know that can even get the parts or make the parts or find the parts that work somehow like I don't
01:37:35 ◼ ► Even know how you maintain a car this old when it breaks. I have no idea how that world works
01:37:43 ◼ ► But also I imagine certain things break and it's just like well, you can't fix that. Sorry. You're out of luck
01:37:51 ◼ ► Ruled out BMW for the most part because I knew that more things would break on them than what I would be willing to fix
01:38:02 ◼ ► 1991 my favorite generation of mr2 which again I've never actually driven or even been inside any of these
01:38:09 ◼ ► This is the one I saw when I went with two cars and coffee with you. So I saw the outside
01:38:15 ◼ ► But I would love to someday drive one of these and and maybe own one if that wouldn't be totally ridiculous
01:38:24 ◼ ► But this is I think it would be fun because it is, you know, I know realistically it's by any modern standard
01:38:34 ◼ ► Like you can make an argument that nobody should be driving 25 year old cars now because modern safety standards are so much higher
01:38:41 ◼ ► That anything this old is just a death trap, even if it was good by this by the standards of its day
01:38:46 ◼ ► So you really shouldn't be driving any of these but if for some reason I felt like driving one of these
01:38:51 ◼ ► This would be kind of cool. I think it'd be fun. It it looks very like retro like 80s early 90s
01:39:17 ◼ ► Which is make merciless fun of our answers and then answer the question. We all know what's gonna happen here
01:39:22 ◼ ► I want to point out that Gareth I think phrase this part of the question for me and then but then Marco needed it as
01:39:27 ◼ ► Well, you get a magical extra garage bay because Gareth knew that my objection would be I'd have nowhere to put the car
01:39:32 ◼ ► Mark would have said I don't have the garage space for it. You forgot about the magical extra garage bay
01:39:36 ◼ ► No, I said I said in reality, I would never buy this because of that but in this hypothetical exercise
01:39:45 ◼ ► And to people who ask in the chat room the parameters the question that I think we all answered is that you're buying it today
01:39:54 ◼ ► $15,000 is your budget now so you could go on to like Auto Trader and pay someone $15,000 for a used car
01:39:59 ◼ ► It's nothing to do with what the car was cost when it was new or anything like that. No time travel is involved here
01:40:04 ◼ ► So if you ask this question to two oldish people or at least people who are much older than 25
01:40:10 ◼ ► I think our first inclination and what all we all did is to try to buy a card that we liked back when we were
01:40:20 ◼ ► He's buying his old car mark was buying a car that he never he wanted but never got my first instinct was to go to
01:40:25 ◼ ► Get my first car which the 1992 Honda Civic which I still think was a great car Oh John
01:40:32 ◼ ► Here's here's part of the reason actually so I can kind of so one of the one of the things I looked at was old
01:40:41 ◼ ► Because my friend had one of those in college and I drove it all the time and it was a lot of fun
01:40:46 ◼ ► It was it was like some like crappy like late 80s integra that was totally beaten up and horrible
01:40:55 ◼ ► If you get the the newer integra some of those are actually a pretty decent pretty quick cars like after the generation you're talking about
01:41:01 ◼ ► Yeah, the square headlights into when they had the four tiny circle headlights. Yep. Yeah, we had one of those
01:41:16 ◼ ► 92 Civic for like two grand right, but I've got a $15,000 budget. So what I would be looking for is like
01:41:26 ◼ ► like it hasn't the problem of these civics this generation is that is they've all been massively modified because these were like the
01:41:45 ◼ ► So but anyway, that was my first instinct, but I did look in the other direction as well
01:41:55 ◼ ► Nostalgia like it kind of like I did in our original neutral thing where I came up with the Acura NSX because you could get
01:42:00 ◼ ► One for 25 grand which probably isn't true now because they're going up in price but back then it was
01:42:04 ◼ ► like be amazed at some car that you didn't think you could get 15k, but you can because it's 25 years old and
01:42:22 ◼ ► Not to say that they have great reliability, but it's to say that the parts tended to last a long time
01:42:27 ◼ ► There wasn't things chintzy on them. They were very big very heavy. The safety is not terrible because
01:42:35 ◼ ► So if you have a fighting chance of like unlike a 92 Civic which will crumple like a tin can
01:42:39 ◼ ► An 80s s-class or something would probably protect you reasonably well for a 25 year old car
01:42:52 ◼ ► I really wanted to be 12, but I couldn't do it that can I could not get a v12 Mercedes for a 15k
01:42:57 ◼ ► Like I just couldn't find one on our trader. You can't get the 850 from BMW. Yeah, I don't like that car
01:43:21 ◼ ► But I hope you hope you're envisioning the one that I'm that I'm thinking of. It's a convertible. It's a two-seat
01:43:36 ◼ ► If I can't have a big s-class because it was just so ridiculous to me that it's like oh, it's convertible
01:43:46 ◼ ► It's a gigantic battleship with like 600 horsepower v12 in the front like a two-seat car to see convertible with a 600 horsepower v12
01:43:57 ◼ ► I can't get that I'd get the v8 and I would be satisfied because it's kind of amazing to me that you can get
01:44:02 ◼ ► You know a 500 SL for 15k, but you can if it's 25 years old you get a 500 SL for six grand
01:44:13 ◼ ► 104,000 miles. I mean like the 80s it's kind of like buying that's that's early 90s one
01:44:23 ◼ ► Made cars differently back then Honda was before the big Japanese decontending and Mercedes just everything was just massively over engineered and ridiculously heavy and
01:44:36 ◼ ► And I think people treat Mercedes pretty well, like unlike an integrity which people are gonna beat the hell
01:44:44 ◼ ► All right, thanks to our three sponsors this week Squarespace Jamf now and Northwestern University and we will see you next week
01:45:57 ◼ ► Hey, so let me give you the good news and the bad news the good news is this press car that I have has answered
01:46:06 ◼ ► The bad news is the press car that I have has raised a million new questions about the press about the next car
01:46:16 ◼ ► Well before I finally make it make up my mind even we're gonna go on the journey like we haven't been on this journey. Yeah, right
01:46:23 ◼ ► The journey is never-ending my friend. It's going to go on for journey has been like every other after show for the last six months
01:46:37 ◼ ► But with mud what with something far less exciting at the other end now that you don't need to go anywhere anymore
01:46:47 ◼ ► That's actually something I've been considering but we'll see you could get like a something done like a smart car
01:47:02 ◼ ► No, I mentioned that I saw I saw one in Paris. It was actually I thought it looked really good
01:47:07 ◼ ► It was like apparently smart a while back made like basically like a little like a little coupe like a little it
01:47:18 ◼ ► I would know that's not what it looked like it looked like a smart car that had gone through a bridge that was too low
01:47:24 ◼ ► It's like the cartoon where like the person who goes rolling past the camera like they're no longer under engine power
01:47:32 ◼ ► And like rolls to a stop after the top of the car has been torn off it looked incredibly unsafe and ridiculous
01:47:42 ◼ ► Outside the grocery store that your kids go in that rocks back and forth. That's what I look like
01:47:48 ◼ ► I would say it looks almost like like the smart car version of the Miata like it's it's very much like in that vein
01:47:59 ◼ ► What's that like it not not in the sense that like I want that but that's really interesting looking like it's kind of cool
01:48:17 ◼ ► But the one I saw it looked much more ridiculous it literally looked like the grocery store
01:48:36 ◼ ► But I think the one I saw had the little hatchback version the the coupe convertible version that's on the Wikipedia page here
01:48:43 ◼ ► Which does look I think significantly better than the one that has just like the chopped off truck back thing
01:48:51 ◼ ► This is the thing the thing that I saw is like a quarter of the size of this assuming that's a normal-sized person
01:48:57 ◼ ► Yeah, this is what I'm talking about this the rest of their lineup is terrible. The smart Roadster was so good
01:49:06 ◼ ► What's the relationship by the way to between smart and I don't think the smart Roadster is ugly. I really don't what's the relationship between?
01:49:18 ◼ ► Mercedes was selling smart cars here in Richmond now, maybe that was a one-off on that particular dealer
01:49:24 ◼ ► I think they own it. Is that what it is? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a sub brand of Mercedes
01:49:31 ◼ ► Doesn't it share a platform with the smart and maybe I'm just remembering that I have no idea
01:49:52 ◼ ► Derive some cooperation with swatch. There you go Marco and Mercedes swatch Mercedes art