278: Best Worst Influence


00:00:00   Sorry, I bored you, John.

00:00:02   [Laughter]

00:00:04   I had such great hopes. Ooh, he's gonna summarize. But no.

00:00:07   [Music]

00:00:09   So, let's start with some follow-up. Stephen Fry was the narrator for the migration video. One of us had said it was, um, oh god, what was his name?

00:00:16   David Attenborough.

00:00:17   Thank you. It was not David Attenborough, it was Stephen Fry.

00:00:20   Stephen Fry doing David Attenborough impression, basically.

00:00:22   Oh, yeah, definitely.

00:00:24   Jen Simmons, who is a designer advocate at Mozilla, had contrary thoughts about the migration video.

00:00:30   So this is the video, the same one we were just speaking of at the very beginning, which I loved.

00:00:34   I thought it was hilarious about how, you know, developers basically never come out to the sunshine, and they never travel, they never talk to people, et cetera, et cetera.

00:00:40   So Jen said, "I can't get past the opening video with the long quote-unquote joke about how developers are not regular people.

00:00:47   They're a special kind of nerd. Only certain human qualify as special enough.

00:00:51   I simply am so utterly done with this myth that only people who act male, act white, act nerdy, dress badly, eat junk food, have poor social skills, are qualified to be developers.

00:01:01   There's a special insiders club which most people can't join. Or that there's a special insiders club that most people can't join.

00:01:07   I'm utterly sick of that idea, simply saying, quote, "Oh, girls can join now. People of color can join now.

00:01:11   You just have to act like this, dress like this, eat like this, talk like this, think like this, here's your hoodie, join the cult/club," quote.

00:01:16   That's not being inclusive, that's enforcing monoculture.

00:01:19   I can't disagree with this. That is not the read I got from it, but hey, I'm a white nerdy guy, so what do you expect?

00:01:26   But I thought the video was funny, and I think it's because I am, I don't know if we've met, I kind of like to make fun of myself.

00:01:32   That's kind of just one of my quirks.

00:01:35   You?

00:01:36   Yeah, I know, exactly. I thought it was very funny, but I think this is a very good point, and I'm glad one of you, I'm guessing, Jon, put this in the show notes?

00:01:44   Yeah, I brought up a similar point on our live episode, that some aspects of the video rubbed me the wrong way, and I put it in here again to talk about it, just to get a perspective from someone who doesn't fit exactly into the stereotype that they were giving there.

00:01:58   But also because it's a challenge, right?

00:02:01   So, on the last show I talked about how if you want to get the audience on your side and reflect them back in the video and say this is the thing about you, down to literally putting developer friends of ours in the video.

00:02:14   So you want to foster the idea that the people who are at WWDC, that there is something that unites them, and their common interest in Apple and developing for the Apple platform.

00:02:26   That is the thing that should unite them, so you'd want to have the most benign version of the in-group, out-group.

00:02:34   The in-group are people who attend WWDC.

00:02:37   Do you want to go to a conference about developing for Apple platforms?

00:02:40   You are in the in-group.

00:02:41   And then the out-group, not in a mean way, but just trying to say you have this shared interest, right?

00:02:47   And so you are different than people who don't have this interest.

00:02:50   Let us all feel good about our shared interest, right?

00:02:53   So I understand the aim of the migration video.

00:02:56   But, whenever you have, and I'm sure that was part of the motivation of making this video, whenever you do something like that though, you have to be very careful that your, the sort of the outline of the in-group and out-group is what you think it is, right?

00:03:11   Because there is, the thing that unites people at WWDC, I think is just what I described, right?

00:03:16   And pretty much nothing else. What unites the people at WWDC is not that they're all dudes, is not that they're all white, is not that they're all rich, is not that they're all from the US, is not, you know, what any other thing that is unrelated to developing for Apple platforms is really outside the realm of the things that should be uniting the people who are there.

00:03:38   But it's very easy to, the stereotypes include much more stuff. So you get the people dressing, you know, dressing in the hoodies or excluding the guy in the suit or the plain fact that like the vast majority of people shown in the video were men.

00:03:52   It's very easy to fall into those because you think, your motivations are pure. I want people to feel like they belong and they belong to this tribe of WWDC, this tribe of Apple developers.

00:04:01   And that is a good instinct and that's what they're going for and that's what everyone is responding to, right? We want to feel like we are part of that group, we have this esoteric interest, but now suddenly we're in a group with all those people with similar interests.

00:04:11   But the other stuff that comes along with it can make certain people feel like, oh, this, what this video is telling me is that I'm not actually a member of the tribe because I don't see myself reflected up there or because what some of the aspects of the stuff they're putting up there don't apply to me.

00:04:27   So for example, when they're talking about like source code as a strange language, I would give a thumbs up on that because if you're a developer to people who aren't developers, writing computer code looks strange to them and that is the thing that everybody knows and has learned and can unite them.

00:04:41   But anything having to do with how you dress or how socially awkward you may be or just representation thing of like who you see up on that screen is, you know, is a thing that could potentially make other people excluded.

00:04:53   So I think I've said this on past shows or whatever, but it's the general rule for life that we judge ourselves by our motivations, but other people by their actions, right?

00:05:02   And in some respects, that's a good way to think about that to help you deal with other people.

00:05:07   But in this case, like I think we can all agree that Apple's motivations are pure, but as a large corporation with a, you know, a big voice up on a stage and, you know, in front of thousands of people and thousands more remote,

00:05:21   we have to at some point also judge them by their actions. So we may recognize the great motivations and though we may think this video was, you know, made us feel good and, you know, like we appreciate the motivation, we appreciate some of the feelings that engendered,

00:05:36   there are still aspects of it that were not ideal.

00:05:39   You know, Anita Sarkeesian's refrain at the beginning of every one of her videos that people conveniently ignore is that it's, I'm paraphrasing, it's okay to criticize things that you like.

00:05:49   Like, it doesn't mean you hate them forever. It doesn't mean it's the worst thing in the world. It just means that everything, you know, things that you like, I think I had a podcast about this, there's usually something that's worth criticizing about them.

00:06:00   And you don't have to go from, I hate every aspect of this and now I need to boycott Apple or say, I love every aspect of it and it's perfect.

00:06:06   Got it. I should have looked up her quote because it's a little, you know, stick that she does at the beginning and it's very apt.

00:06:11   So anyway, all this is to say that nothing is so perfect.

00:06:14   All right. Can you tell me what its road trip, oh, that's right. It's road trip. Right as I was reading that, it occurred to me what that was. Did we not talk about this on the show?

00:06:25   We didn't. I think we missed it. It was in the notes and I, you know, the specifics are probably not that interesting, although just to refresh everyone's memory, there was a past keynote where some Apple folks were giving a demo, I forget of what application,

00:06:36   and they were trying to write Utah road trip and autocorrect changed Utah into its right. And the guy giving the demo hit return or whatever, or like, you know, accepted the text before he had realized autocorrect is snuck behind his back and changed its Utah to its.

00:06:54   And he has this great expression on the video where he's like, oh, like you see his face drop and his eyes roll on his head, you know, and, and so they had this project that was running that they fixed it.

00:07:04   I think they fixed it in post, like in the non-live version, they changed it to Utah. Right. So it looks okay. But we were all making that joke about its road trip after that keynote. So in this keynote, there was where the heck was it? Maybe in like, oh, it's one of the labels in the finder, I think.

00:07:20   Okay. Like, you know, they showed a finder window with a bunch of labels. And one of the labels was its road trip. And I thought that was neat because whatever they're making a joke. But the thing is, it was Apple making the joke. But Apple was, this is sort of like, it's a low, it's a low bar, but it's one of the things that I've seen Apple do recently. It makes, you know, it's an admission of engagement with the community, because Apple didn't intentionally make its road trip a thing. It was an accident and the community latched on to it.

00:07:47   And by doing this, Apple is acknowledging, hey, community, we see you, we know you're out there, we know we made a goof and we know it was funny and we know you made it funny. And we are reflecting that back to you, which is a rare thing for them because normal Apple would be like, all right, have your fun, but we're never going to reference our mistake again. Why would we reference our own mistake?

00:08:07   Why would we acknowledge that it's a meme that was invented in the outside community? We'll just move on and pretend it never happened, just like we did in the video where we corrected it. So I thought that was a nice glimmer of hope that Apple sees and recognizes the community and is willing to do frivolous things to reflect ourselves back.

00:08:24   My buddy Sam Gross tweeted sometime in the last week, hey, messages in macOS Mojave, Mojave, Mojave, Mojave, I always second guess it. Mojave, long e. Okay. Messages in macOS Mojave supports iMessage and nothing else. Rest in peace, Yahoo Messenger, AIM, Google Chat via Jabber, ICQ, et cetera.

00:08:44   Now most of these are actually dead anyway. Yeah, exactly. Didn't AIM shut down? Let's see, Yahoo Messenger is dying soon. They announced that it's dying, right? Yeah, ICQ I think died like 50 years ago. I think AIM shut down last year.

00:08:56   I thought ICQ was still a thing. Seriously. No, I think AIM is, I think, yeah, I think ICQ is gone and so is AIM. You can download it right now. New ICQ from macOS 10. Hmm. Fake news. I could swear it's still a thing. I could swear it's still a thing. Google Chat is definitely still a thing. Is it, though?

00:09:12   Yeah, it's in the lower left corner of my stupid Gmail window all the time and I have to learn how to hide it in every new version they release. I mean, Google Plus was there for a while, too, and that wasn't really ever a thing.

00:09:21   They got rid of, yeah, Google Buzz, yeah. I assure you, for those, for the parts of my company that are not on Slack, which is basically everything that's not engineering, Google Chat is still a thing.

00:09:31   I'm so sorry. So anyway, one nice heuristic to help you remember how to say Mojave correctly is that Mojave sounds fancy. Mojave sounds like casual and it's California, so it's always going to be casual.

00:09:43   Oh, yeah, yeah. I dig it. I dig it. So Mojave.

00:09:46   Yeah, so this, them eliminating all the third-party things makes sense. I mean, iMessage is ascendant. Many people have talked frequently about how iMessage is the one vaguely social thing Apple has ever done right.

00:10:01   And it's very popular and it's a very commonly used application and it's better than SMS and we're all happy we have it, so on and so forth.

00:10:08   And the other ones are all dying and it's just like Apple to say, "Why are we even supporting these anymore? Everyone has an iPhone that wants to use iMessage anyway. Just ditch them. It'll make the app simpler."

00:10:19   And I'm pretty much on board with that, even though I have accounts on all these services.

00:10:23   It also might be like, you know, from a basic software development standpoint, one of the big issues that Apple had between iOS and the Mac is that the Mac version of Messages supports a very small subset of what the iOS version supports.

00:10:36   So if they were going to do something like try to improve that, it would probably be a lot easier in a Messages app that only supported iMessage instead of having a special case the entire UI for all these other services while they are also working heavily on it.

00:10:49   We'll talk about that topic either later in the show or in the next show because I have more to say on that specific topic.

00:10:55   Dun, dun, dun. Sent with lasers.

00:10:58   I always forget that's a thing and then somebody will send me something like, "Oh, yeah." Renaud Leinart writes, "I just realized that Xcode 10's Device Simulator clones, which make parallel testing possible, probably rely on APFS fast snapshotting capabilities in order to instantly copy the master simulator's 'template.' Thus, the APFS transition is starting to bear its fruits."

00:11:20   I know someone who's probably excited about that. Tell me about it, Marco.

00:11:24   John, tell me more.

00:11:27   I want this to be true.

00:11:30   Oh, here we go.

00:11:32   So I saw the demo of like, "Look, we can run a bunch of simulators in parallel and run multiple test suites and it's all cool and everything." And it makes sense to me that this would be an efficient way to implement that, but I have no idea if that's how they actually implement it.

00:11:44   I hope it is because I agree that APFS has many abilities that can lead to advances like this, things that you couldn't even conceive of doing. Let's say these templates are like 300 megabytes and you want to make 12 copies.

00:11:59   Making 12 copies of a 300 megabyte file in HFS+ would take you forever and in APFS you can do it instantly and they can slowly diverge from each other with copy-on-write semantics.

00:12:09   So that would be super cool and I really hope that's how they're doing it. If they're actually copying 300 megabyte files 12 times or if the file is only 4 megabytes and it just copies real fast because SSDs, I'll be sad.

00:12:19   iOS 12 pre-release reports. Okay, so I need an intervention. I'm traveling sometime soon and I really don't want to be traveling on beta software. It just seems like a poor choice.

00:12:34   Okay, so don't do it.

00:12:35   But I want Memoji, Memoji, Memoji, whatever they're called. I want Memoji so bad.

00:12:40   So do it. It's fine.

00:12:41   Oh, don't tell it. But you're supposed to be. You see, this is why I can't go to you Marco because you're the best worst influence I've ever met in my entire life.

00:12:47   What I really want to do is install iOS 12 on my carry phone, but I don't want to. My brain is saying no, but my future Memoji is saying, "Oh, hells yes."

00:12:57   So I don't know what to do. And the reason this is an issue, this is a real issue, is because everything I've heard is that iOS 12 is without comparison far and away.

00:13:09   The first beta is far and away the best first beta ever. The customer sat on the beta is blow away.

00:13:17   And God, I hate myself for saying that, but I couldn't help it.

00:13:20   Someone said blow away in this talk show.

00:13:22   It was in the talk show.

00:13:23   Yeah, in the talk show live someone said blow away. I felt like throwing something.

00:13:27   Yeah, I felt like, I'm like, "Oh, I kind of feel charming." I'm like, "Oh, I miss Scott Forstall."

00:13:31   Because we haven't heard Apple say blow away since Scott was fired. Is that true? I don't think.

00:13:37   I don't know about that. I think it's kind of creepy though. It's like when the ET, as they call themselves, executive team, talk amongst themselves and a word like that spreads.

00:13:47   Like in a single group of friends, right? And then years later they're still saying blow away, but I'm assuming no one else in the world is except for a senior leadership at Apple.

00:13:57   I mean, it's natural. It happens all the time. I see it happen at work, but it's a little bit weird to see that one come slingshotting about and go, "Whoa, blow away." Blow away is an adjective.

00:14:07   I know. It was always such a clumsy, awkward thing to say that way anyway.

00:14:12   Someone needs to track that down. We need an etymologist to find the cultural origin of blow away as an adjective at Apple. Maybe it's like all of Silicon Valley. I don't know where it came from.

00:14:23   Oh, man, that's tremendous. Anyway, what was I trying to say? I don't even know anymore.

00:14:28   You were saying beta 1 stability is blow away.

00:14:30   Oh, yes, that's right.

00:14:31   IOS 12, not even like the first public beta, but what they release at WWDC, like, "Hey, get out of your seats, go down to the labs, download from little epoxied on Ethernet connectors and get IOS 12 for WCD developers."

00:14:43   Everybody says, not only does it not crash and mostly functions, but that, like they said in the keynote, it's fast. It's fast on your old phone. It's fast on your new phone.

00:14:53   Everybody's raving about it, and I'm in a similar situation to Casey. I'm not considering putting it on my phone because I'm not, you know, that deluded, but I have strongly considered putting it on my iPad.

00:15:02   I'm holding out and saying, "Just wait for the first public beta," because everyone says it's great, and I don't think I've ever heard this about an IOS beta before.

00:15:10   I mean, you have to put it on your main phone so you could do Memoji if you have an iPhone 10.

00:15:14   That's the problem.

00:15:15   I don't care about Memoji.

00:15:16   You do.

00:15:17   Oh, come on, man.

00:15:18   You should.

00:15:19   I think they're creepy.

00:15:20   I have it. I'm using my iPhone 7 right now, and it is already installed on there, but I don't even know why I did this in retrospect because the one thing I actually really want to try is the stupid Memoji that I know I'm going to be obsessed with.

00:15:33   And so I don't know what to do. I really want to put it on my carry phone.

00:15:37   It sounds like you're drunkenly saying "Emoji" when you say "Memoji."

00:15:40   I love those Memoji.

00:15:43   But it's still being Memoji because they're about—it's like, just imagine a Nintendo M-I-I Memoji.

00:15:48   Yeah, sorry.

00:15:49   Well, anyway, the point I'm driving at, though, is I need someone whose name is not Marco Orman because you're the best worst influence ever to tell me that this is a terrible idea, and Beta 2 might be just a dumpster fire, and not to do it, even though I really want to.

00:16:02   Wait for the first public beta, at least, for your phone, please.

00:16:05   The other thing that's easy to say—so Marco is sending me a message of his Memoji smiling at me right now.

00:16:12   Real-time follow-up.

00:16:13   See, you could do this, too.

00:16:14   Just think, you could respond with your own little cute Casey thing.

00:16:17   I know.

00:16:18   Stop it.

00:16:19   Well, but then the thing is—

00:16:20   You could have your tall hair.

00:16:21   But you all have the same nose and your face will be round.

00:16:23   No, they have different—there's different face shapes and different nose shapes.

00:16:26   I haven't seen much variation.

00:16:27   I haven't tried it myself, obviously, but in the ones that people have posted, I haven't seen much variation.

00:16:31   Maybe everyone just always picks the ideal—not the ideal, but the most Emoji-looking face.

00:16:36   Well, it's hard.

00:16:37   It's also, like, it's hard to judge.

00:16:39   If you're making it for yourself, it's hard to even know, like, what shape is my face exactly?

00:16:44   I can tell you what shape your face is.

00:16:46   Yeah, because you're not me, but when you're, like—

00:16:47   No, I know what shape my face is.

00:16:48   It's not round.

00:16:49   Round is not the shape of my head.

00:16:51   Long, tall, big nose.

00:16:53   I know what shape my face is.

00:16:55   Now Jelly is sending me Memoji stickers and IMS's.

00:16:59   It's not Memoji.

00:17:00   Stop saying that.

00:17:01   Memoji. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

00:17:02   I love Memoji.

00:17:03   Memoji's great.

00:17:05   Think you're better than me?

00:17:07   Let me tell you all about my Memojis.

00:17:09   My Memojis are fancy.

00:17:11   Anyway, so the point is, I want me-mojis in my life.

00:17:15   God, I'm gonna get made fun of so badly.

00:17:17   I want me-mojis in my life and I can't have them and I want them.

00:17:22   Everybody out there who has Casey on iMessage, please send him an emoji.

00:17:26   Please, no.

00:17:27   You should all build—everyone build an emoji that you think looks like Casey.

00:17:31   There's plenty of art on the internet for you to find.

00:17:33   That I am on board with.

00:17:34   You can tweet at me or the show.

00:17:37   I am on board with this because if we've learned anything from my me on the Nintendo Wii and/or Switch,

00:17:44   I have learned that John Siracusa is quite the me critic and he will not fancy my Memoji.

00:17:50   So I need some help on this one.

00:17:52   Oh, man.

00:17:53   Of course, there's no way to share it, right?

00:17:55   If someone builds a cool-looking Casey one, they can't, like, literally—

00:17:58   No, there isn't.

00:17:59   You have to, like, take note of all the settings.

00:18:02   Yeah, I guess you could just, like, you know, use it as a reference when building your own.

00:18:05   But they should be shareable, just like me's are.

00:18:06   If Nintendo makes something shareable and Apple doesn't, that's bad.

00:18:09   Now Federico's sending me messages.

00:18:11   Stop, everybody!

00:18:12   Oh, God, you're all terrible influences.

00:18:14   What shape is Federico's face?

00:18:16   It's beard-shaped.

00:18:17   Which one of these hairs is the Casey hair?

00:18:19   I didn't find a good Casey hair in the ten seconds I played.

00:18:22   It might have been your phone.

00:18:23   There's one that's kind of backwards.

00:18:24   It's like the inverse of your hair direction.

00:18:26   Can you flip your hair direction the other way so it can start looking more like an Emoji?

00:18:31   I will work on it.

00:18:32   It'll just use the selfie camera.

00:18:33   That reverses everything, right?

00:18:34   Fair point.

00:18:35   Yeah, there isn't a good one.

00:18:36   There's some close, kind of close ones.

00:18:39   This is going to be my Bizell moment, isn't it?

00:18:42   Oh, totally, yes.

00:18:43   This is not good.

00:18:44   This is not good.

00:18:45   Can we move on?

00:18:46   Well, that's because Memoji is a made-up word, so you're fine.

00:18:49   We're just trying to nip it in the bud before you start saying Memoji for the rest of your life.

00:18:53   I'm working on the Golf R.

00:18:54   There you go.

00:18:55   I'm making slow progress on it.

00:18:57   Slow, slow, slow progress.

00:18:58   Yeah, there you go.

00:18:59   That's another real word that you should work on.

00:19:00   I'm working on it.

00:19:01   All right, so Marco, all kidding aside, you're running the beta, and you're sending me the Memojis.

00:19:07   You're sending me Memojis and...

00:19:09   Every time you say it, it's wrong in a different way.

00:19:12   Well, he was intentionally saying it wrong.

00:19:14   That one was deliberate.

00:19:15   The earlier ones were not deliberate.

00:19:16   That one was deliberate.

00:19:17   Anyways, you're sending me your Memojis.

00:19:20   How is the stability, though?

00:19:21   Because you're living with it.

00:19:22   You've experienced this, so how are we doing?

00:19:24   Everyone is a unique snowflake.

00:19:25   Everyone's phone is uniquely different and everything, but I will say that it's been totally fine for me.

00:19:30   That being said, though, a beta is hard because it's unpredictable.

00:19:34   At least the GM versions, you can be sure that they've been pretty extensively tested on a lot of people's devices,

00:19:42   and the standards are pretty high for them usually, unless they're High Sierra.

00:19:46   So you could...

00:19:47   But with the beta, this beta might be fine today and yesterday and the day before that,

00:19:53   and then tomorrow it might just break all of a sudden, and you don't really know that.

00:19:55   And then also, this is beta one.

00:19:57   When it gets updated to beta two, beta two might be a lot worse.

00:20:01   That's just part of the beta cycle, is every version of it is a new gamble,

00:20:06   and you don't know what you're getting until it's too late, really.

00:20:10   So in the last couple of years, the betas have actually been pretty reasonable to run on your main phone.

00:20:16   We all say you shouldn't do it, because ideally you shouldn't.

00:20:20   If you don't need to be running the beta for any reason, yeah, you probably shouldn't be running it.

00:20:24   But we want to run it anyway, and I can say from that point of view, it's been fine.

00:20:29   The only bug I've noticed is that the group notifications in Notification Center

00:20:35   sometimes will show the...

00:20:37   They'll sometimes duplicate a notification, like in two different stacks,

00:20:42   instead of showing what should have been on the second stack.

00:20:46   So I'm actually not seeing certain notifications as they come in.

00:20:50   So it just so happens I don't care about notifications, so it doesn't matter.

00:20:53   But if you are a notification user, which is almost everybody,

00:20:58   you might care about that.

00:21:00   But otherwise, install it if you feel like being a little bit reckless.

00:21:04   If you don't need Memoji right now, don't bother.

00:21:07   We are sponsored this week by Aftershocks.

00:21:11   You know, it was a really hot day today, and I wanted to go for a big dog walk.

00:21:16   And because I knew it was going to be hot, and because I wanted to hear the world around me,

00:21:20   the headphones I picked to listen to podcasts on while I was going for my big walk today,

00:21:24   of course I went with the Aftershocks Trex Air.

00:21:27   The Trex Air are bone conduction headphones.

00:21:30   And what this means is nothing sits inside your ear,

00:21:33   and there's no big pad that goes on top of or around your ear.

00:21:36   Instead, there are these little tiny transducers that rest next to your ear,

00:21:42   and they send tiny little vibrations through your cheekbones so that your inner ear picks them up,

00:21:47   but without having the whole world hear them as well.

00:21:50   But the great thing about this is because nothing is blocking your ear,

00:21:52   not only is it great in hot weather because it makes you less sweaty,

00:21:55   but you can still hear the sounds of the world around you.

00:21:59   They just get added to whatever you're listening to.

00:22:02   So I'm able to listen to a podcast on my dog walks and also still hear, say, if a car is coming.

00:22:08   There's lots of different scenarios, but this is great.

00:22:10   You know, walking, running, biking even, a lot of things outside.

00:22:13   Also, just doing things around the house is really nice,

00:22:16   because say you want to listen to podcasts while you're getting chores done around the house,

00:22:19   and you want to also hear, like, if someone knocks on your door,

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00:22:47   I use them almost every day in the summertime, and even a lot in the fall and winter too.

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00:22:57   Check it out today at ATP.aftershokz.com, and use code ATP30 to get $30 off the weightless wireless Trekz Air.

00:23:07   Thank you so much to Aftershokz for once again sponsoring our show,

00:23:11   and for keeping my ears nice and cool and open while I listen to podcasts on the go.

00:23:18   So I believe I mentioned two weeks ago that I had acquired, with the release of iOS 11.4 and AirPlay 2 and stereo pairing,

00:23:26   I had acquired two HomePods after resisting the HomePod from its release until now,

00:23:31   because I now have to do a lot of HomePod testing because of AirPlay 2 with Overcast.

00:23:36   And the reason I got two is because I'm going to be very heavily doing it this summer,

00:23:41   so I needed one for basically my desk here, and one for my desk at the vacation house.

00:23:46   However, I haven't been there yet to drop it off, so I have two HomePods sitting here,

00:23:51   so I decided, you know what, while they're here, let me try stereo pairing.

00:23:55   Plus, a few people had said that they've had weird, out-of-sync sounding bugs with stereo pairs, with Overcast in particular.

00:24:02   So I thought, okay, let me test this. I gotta actually see if this is the case or not, and if I can do anything about it.

00:24:07   The answer's probably not, but anyway.

00:24:10   So I had the chance to finally test not only one HomePod, but two HomePods, and to see how they sounded in stereo.

00:24:15   Now, having just the one before, and I had it in the kitchen first, and then I brought it to the office,

00:24:20   I was pretty impressed with the sound quality. It wasn't life-changing or anything, but it was very impressive.

00:24:28   It also isn't a very good value, necessarily, like $350, you can get a lot of good speakers.

00:24:34   But it was a very good sounding speaker, but it still ultimately sounded like a fancy version of an Echo.

00:24:42   It still was trying to fill a room with one point, and that's hard to do.

00:24:47   So the stereo pair takes what was a, you know, it sounds good in a mono non-pair, I guess.

00:24:54   A mono unity.

00:24:56   A stereo pair sounds great. Really great.

00:25:02   And it's not just because of certain instruments coming from one side or the other, it's because it fills a space better.

00:25:09   We are accustomed to hearing, like if we have a room that's bigger than a bathroom that you want to fill with sound,

00:25:17   you do it with two speakers usually, at least.

00:25:19   So we are accustomed to how that's supposed to sound.

00:25:22   And when you have multiple points broadcasting, it just sounds better.

00:25:27   Even if they were playing the exact same signal, if they were just both playing a mono signal,

00:25:32   it would still sound better because it would fill the room better, and it would come from multiple points,

00:25:36   it would have wider sound stage and everything else, but because they're also doing a stereo signal now,

00:25:41   it basically lets them shine as not having to rely so much on trying to reflect sound across walls and everything

00:25:49   to try to fake a wider sound projection, but to actually just have one in the first place,

00:25:54   to have a wide projection of sound.

00:25:56   That way they can, it seems like they're maybe turning down the weird processing when they're in stereo mode,

00:26:01   and just playing really good sound.

00:26:03   Things sound the way they're supposed to, like it isn't doing some weird blend,

00:26:07   things that are supposed to come from the left do come from the left, et cetera.

00:26:11   So it's great sounding.

00:26:14   And I have it on my desk now, I have them like Jeff Foxworthy style, they are on top of my other speakers.

00:26:20   Which actually is really nice because it puts them right at ear level, which is exactly where you want them,

00:26:28   but these make incredible computer speakers.

00:26:33   These would be the best computer speakers in the world, except for one small flaw,

00:26:38   besides that they're $700 for the pair, that's a bigger flaw, but there's one flaw even bigger that money can't solve,

00:26:45   and that is that you currently can't use them as computer speakers, or many kinds of speakers really,

00:26:52   because not only is there no input on them, and not only are they not Bluetooth,

00:26:58   but also iTunes can't send to stereo pairs.

00:27:03   - Seriously? - Yes.

00:27:05   iTunes sees them both as individual speakers.

00:27:08   So you try to send to either one, it just does just that one.

00:27:12   So you can send from your iPhone, you can have iPhone as your sound source, but not iTunes.

00:27:19   And if you wanted to say watch a video on your computer and have that come through it,

00:27:24   I think maybe you could trick AirPlay into helping you out there, but it would be awfully clunky.

00:27:29   Basically the Mac doesn't seem to have AirPlay 2 support in any apps that I know of.

00:27:35   So that's really unfortunate, because if there were a way to conveniently make these my computer speakers,

00:27:44   they would be the best computer speakers I've ever heard, at any price.

00:27:47   Unfortunately they're limited by their lack of input variety and lack of input options really.

00:27:55   And it's really a shame, because compared to anything else, where they really excel,

00:27:59   I have my little Paradigm Adam speakers, which are, I think it was about $300 for the pair.

00:28:04   Plus I had to get a little tiny amp to power them on my desk, that was another 200 maybe,

00:28:09   I don't know, it was a long time ago.

00:28:10   And the Paradigm Adam sound excellent.

00:28:13   I've never found a pair of regular bookshelf speakers that sounds better for the price than Paradigm Adams.

00:28:18   But because they are traditional speakers, not only do you need an amp, and they have a powered version,

00:28:24   it sucks, don't get it, it's not the same thing.

00:28:26   Anyway, so they sound great, but they also have a clear sweet spot, because they're just regular speaker drivers,

00:28:33   so then there's regular ones facing forward.

00:28:35   So actually using them on a desk is kind of, it's a little too short distance for them,

00:28:40   unless you really angle them towards you and tilt them up and everything.

00:28:43   And there's a pretty small sweet spot.

00:28:46   The HomePod doesn't have a clear sweet spot, because it broadcasts from a bunch of different tweeters,

00:28:51   and the subs just fire, I think, up or down, it kind of fills a bigger area.

00:28:55   So that's great with the HomePod.

00:28:57   Also, my regular speakers really don't have strong bass, they really need a subwoofer.

00:29:03   I don't have one, but they could benefit from one.

00:29:05   The HomePod has not only strong bass, but almost too strong bass.

00:29:10   It's pretty thumpy, although it is, honestly, it's a pleasing and fun tuning.

00:29:18   It's not accurate, it's not neutral, it's nothing like that, but it is fun.

00:29:23   It's what Beats headphones wish they sounded like, but they don't.

00:29:27   Beats headphones, if you put too much bass in headphones, what you tend to get is boominess,

00:29:33   and when you have good bass from a subwoofer, you get thumpiness.

00:29:37   What you want is the thump, not the boom, because that sounds better.

00:29:42   And the HomePod provides that.

00:29:44   For its size, it gives a remarkable amount of clean, thumpy bass.

00:29:50   I've never heard anything like that from something this size that sits on top of a desk.

00:29:54   It's just a shame that they would make such amazing desktop speakers.

00:30:00   If my Mac, I'm not even asking for a game console or a Blu-ray player here,

00:30:05   if my Mac could output sound to them, that's all I would need, but it can't, and that's unfortunate.

00:30:13   There's also a few other minor niggles about stereo pairing mode, if anybody was curious about trying it.

00:30:19   It seems to be working kind of like AirPods, where most of the time it gives the illusion that it is a stereo pair acting as one.

00:30:29   But there are a few holes in the abstraction.

00:30:31   So for instance, when they've been off for a while and you tell it to play, first of all,

00:30:35   Siri only responds from one of them.

00:30:37   And okay, fine. That's weird, but fine.

00:30:41   When they've been off for a while and it starts to play, that one that responds to Siri,

00:30:45   the primary one, which in my case is the left one,

00:30:47   that will start playing for like a half second first before the right one wakes up and realizes,

00:30:53   "Oh, oh, s***, you wanted me? Okay, please, I will turn on now. Here we go."

00:30:57   So you hear the sound first out of one channel, and then the second channel warms up and gets there after a second or so.

00:31:03   And I have had occasional once or twice split second moments where it did seem like they were out of sync also.

00:31:11   So very much like the AirPods in that way.

00:31:14   They just seem like they're working with the same technology of like,

00:31:16   these are two separate devices that are most of the time working together as a perfect stereo pair,

00:31:21   but sometimes you see a little bit of a seam somewhere.

00:31:23   Other than that though, they are really great, and I just hope that Apple broadens this product's versatility

00:31:30   to the point where I can use it for more.

00:31:33   Because Siri is fine. It's still not where the Amazon Echo was three years ago.

00:31:38   But if you are primarily using it for music, this could be a really great product if it was easier to get your music into it.

00:31:45   So real-time follow-up from Zach Hall.

00:31:47   In iTunes, it is possible to do stereo pairing.

00:31:50   How?

00:31:51   So he has tweeted at us, I will put a link to this in the show notes,

00:31:54   but the little like AirPlay icon just like you would see on iOS,

00:31:58   if you click that apparently and you look down in the Switch 2 section,

00:32:03   and in this particular screenshot it says Office HomePod, but there's a picture of two of them.

00:32:09   So even though it says singular Office HomePod, there's a picture of two HomePods there,

00:32:16   and that would apparently do the trick.

00:32:18   Hang on, I'm going to test this out right now.

00:32:20   Loading? What is it loading?

00:32:22   Not playing. This is like when you plug it in and it says not charging.

00:32:25   This is like...

00:32:26   That's not helpful. I asked you to charge.

00:32:29   Thank you for that.

00:32:30   Okay. Oh, wait.

00:32:32   There it is!

00:32:35   Okay, thanks Zach Hall.

00:32:37   That is deeply un-obvious to me, having only seen the picture,

00:32:40   because he said to me, you know, you just have to use the Switch 2 menu,

00:32:43   and you just need to click that.

00:32:46   I'm looking at this menu and I'm like, I have no freaking clue where on this menu I need to click,

00:32:50   and it wasn't until he said...

00:32:51   And it still doesn't solve the problem of, you know, that it's only iTunes,

00:32:54   it still has a little bit of a delay still.

00:32:57   Like, if the Mac could just output your system audio as an audio output device to a pair of HomePods,

00:33:05   yes, they're expensive now, but first of all, the computer's expensive too.

00:33:09   A lot of Apple customers don't care and will buy it anyway.

00:33:11   Second of all, a lot of other desktop systems that are high-end are similarly expensive,

00:33:15   like from all the B&W, stuff like that.

00:33:18   And third of all, they're not going to be expensive forever.

00:33:21   There's going to be more models.

00:33:23   And so, I hope they add this with future versions of Mac,

00:33:26   named after various casually pronounced places in California,

00:33:29   because they do sound great and they would be the best desktop speakers,

00:33:35   if only I could make my desktop output sound to them.

00:33:38   Do you remember the rumor, somewhere online,

00:33:40   that was saying that the HomePod, which we had heard had been in development for a long time,

00:33:45   and just now emerged, was originally not designed to be like a person in a tube cylinder thing,

00:33:55   but was designed as the sound system for the supposed Apple Television set?

00:34:01   I did hear that rumor, but I don't remember where I saw it.

00:34:04   And I think about that one, and we all know the Apple Television set rumors from ages ago,

00:34:09   and never produced a television.

00:34:11   And I suppose it's conceivable, but kind of to Marco's point about the stereo pair,

00:34:16   having one of them for your TV, like where would you put it?

00:34:19   Like, if it was off to the side, it would always kind of sound like the sound is coming from the side.

00:34:24   It would just be weird.

00:34:26   If you put it in the middle, it would block the TV unless you put it under it,

00:34:29   and you can't really put it over it.

00:34:30   And then, if they were going to have two of them, are they going to add $700 MSRP to the television set?

00:34:36   And why would they be separate?

00:34:37   So, I'm not sure I buy that theory, but who knows what goes on inside Apple.

00:34:41   I mean, maybe that's the reason they didn't make it, because they realized this is a dumb idea for a TV speaker.

00:34:46   But apparently, if you get two of them for the low, low price of $700, you get some good stereo speakers.

00:34:51   No, I mean, ultimately, like, if you're setting these up to fill a moderately sized room with sound,

00:34:57   like, pretty much everybody's, like, living room would qualify for this.

00:35:00   I would plan to get two, because it really does sound that much better,

00:35:04   and it really does fill the room that much better.

00:35:06   If you want it to be what most of us have used Amazon Echo's for, which is, like, a thing in the kitchen,

00:35:13   you know, or, like, in, like, the middle section of a house to be, like, kind of a personal assistant,

00:35:17   to answer voice requests and not so much music, or if there's not room for two of them,

00:35:22   yeah, then you can just get one.

00:35:24   But it sounds so vastly better with two that for anybody out there who doesn't have one yet might be thinking about it,

00:35:31   really plan to get two if you want to fill a room with music.

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00:37:31   Let's talk about WVDC.

00:37:36   There's all sorts. This is kind of like a smorgasbord of random quick hits.

00:37:40   So let's start with AR.

00:37:42   They Sherlocked, what is it, MeasureKit, which I always thought was an odd name for an app, but it's a great app.

00:37:46   They Sherlocked MeasureKit, which is an app wherein you can use AR today to measure things.

00:37:52   They didn't Sherlock MeasureKit.

00:37:54   They Sherlocked all the other AR-based measurement apps that are out there in the store.

00:37:58   Sure. But MeasureKit was the only one that I'd ever heard of, really.

00:38:01   I'm sure there are others, but that's the only one that I knew of that people used.

00:38:04   Yeah, I want to talk about this just because, you know, I think it's interesting which applications Apple decides to make.

00:38:10   Like what they decide to Sherlock.

00:38:12   Obviously it makes sense for them to make an app with AR, another app with AR, to highlight their work on AR.

00:38:18   And measurement apps are a pretty simple one.

00:38:20   It got me thinking about, people don't get as worked up as they used to about Sherlocking.

00:38:26   Certainly the original Sherlocking was much more egregious than this.

00:38:28   People can look that up. I don't want to delve into it now, but there was a program called Watson and then there was a program called Sherlock, and it was pretty obvious and pretty rude.

00:38:36   Anyway, there are upsides and downsides to Sherlocking, right?

00:38:41   So the downsides are obvious. Before I was selling a measurement app and now everyone can get one free with their phone.

00:38:45   I'm assuming this thing is free.

00:38:47   Does it come with the phone or is it just in the app store?

00:38:50   I honestly don't know.

00:38:51   Anyway, the point is Apple can afford to make this for free and maybe you can't if it was the app that you were selling and it was super popular, so that's bad.

00:38:58   But the upside is that Apple tends not to, like they tend to make applications like this and sort of, you know, call it good after it has basic functionality.

00:39:10   Like they're not relentlessly year after year improving their measurement application that they offer for free, right?

00:39:16   And so by offering this application, it could be that Apple makes a larger portion of the population aware that measurement apps are a thing and that it leads more people to your application, which is like the pro version of a measurement app that does more fancy things that Apple is never going to implement.

00:39:33   And all of a sudden you have a bunch of new customers who previously didn't even know you or measurement apps existed at all, but find themselves hungry for a better one once they reach the limits of the Apple one.

00:39:42   I don't know what is, which one of those is the case for measurement applications, but I thought it was interesting that I didn't hear pretty much any outcry from Apple deciding to offer a free application that does things that a bunch of store apps already do.

00:39:59   And I think it may be because people are, you know, recognize the potential upside more than they used to now. We'll wait two years and see if those measurement applications that were previously selling for 99 cents are all dead or have gone to free with in-app gambling or something.

00:40:13   Measure is included on the phone. I'm using my iPhone 7 right now. And I don't know how well this is really working, but that's okay. It's a dark room.

00:40:22   I've tried it a couple times and it has failed pretty significantly. Like they said last year when they introduced ARKit, they said that measurements would be roughly within 5% accuracy.

00:40:33   The ones I've taken so far with the measure app have been like 30% off. So maybe I'm doing it wrong or something, but I would take any measurement with it as a novelty and not as an actual useful bit of information.

00:40:46   That's pretty cool. So I'm measuring my Magic Keyboard and it snaps with haptics when you're hitting what it thinks is a corner. That's very neat.

00:40:55   I love that everybody on Twitter is sending you Memojis of you.

00:40:58   Including you via iMessage.

00:41:00   Of course.

00:41:01   Jelly has been sending me some.

00:41:02   I am kind of happy that we all picked the same hair.

00:41:05   That is true, yeah.

00:41:06   Even though it isn't the perfect Casey hair, but I think it's the closest of what we have.

00:41:10   Jelly's critique of yours, which he probably didn't want me to share with you, but hey, whatever, is that my hair is too light and my eyes are too round, according to Jelly.

00:41:19   I did lighten your hair from the default. Because I'm basing it mostly on your avatar picture because that's what I'm staring at right now and it's easier to look at that than to remember what you look like.

00:41:29   We have a solution for this problem. We could do this crazy thing. Oh my word.

00:41:36   Whoa! Skype has video?

00:41:38   Skype has video. Who knew?

00:41:39   No. No. Do not want.

00:41:41   You know what's funny? In the, whatever we do in this, like five years of this show, I don't think I've ever turned on my camera while recording this show.

00:41:48   We've never done this.

00:41:49   Until now.

00:41:50   Now we see how you're sitting in darkness, wearing your best undershirt.

00:41:54   I am wearing my best white t-shirt, as you said. Look at us. We're looking at each other. This is a whole new world.

00:41:59   Oh yeah, this is enough. I can't handle it.

00:42:01   It's too weird.

00:42:02   I can't handle it. It's too weird.

00:42:04   Anyway, this show is a total train wreck, but that's okay.

00:42:08   So what else is going on with Sherlocking and AR stuff? Do we care?

00:42:13   We're done with that topic.

00:42:14   No? Okay. Sorry, I was distracted by my memogees.

00:42:18   Multiple faces for iOS 12 face ID.

00:42:21   Every time it's different.

00:42:22   It's so good. Now I'm amused by it.

00:42:24   My own customer's sat on my own mispronunciation is Blowaway, I gotta tell you. Now beating that joke to death.

00:42:30   Anyway, multiple faces in iOS 12 face ID. There is an alternative appearance option for face ID and iOS 12.

00:42:41   I have not yet tried this myself. I have heard reports that other people have been able to set this up for a spouse or something like that.

00:42:47   I think this is actually supposed to be used for...

00:42:51   Oh man, I don't want to get this wrong, and I don't recall the head covering. What's the name of the head covering?

00:42:56   I really don't want to use the wrong word here.

00:42:58   Hijab?

00:42:59   Yes, thank you.

00:43:00   For people that have... well, I shouldn't say have to, that choose to use Hijab's... I hope I pronounced that right, I'm so sorry.

00:43:08   So you could have one face ID orientation or setup, if you will, with and one without.

00:43:16   And I think that seems to me to be the truest intention of this particular ability.

00:43:23   But you bet that as soon as I get this, I'm going to try to set this up for Erin and vice versa, because I have no particular reason why I wouldn't want her to be able to unlock my phone.

00:43:33   I know not everyone is like that, and that's fine. But for me, I don't think she even really cares.

00:43:38   For me, it's easier if I'm driving or something, I just hand her my phone and say, "Hey, can you send a text to Marco or John about blah, blah, blah."

00:43:45   And so I would like to have that ability, and I am curious to see if this works.

00:43:49   Again, I've heard rumblings that it does work, but I have not tried it for myself.

00:43:54   So I've got a report for you on this.

00:43:55   Oh, excellent. Okay.

00:43:56   First of all, it's interesting to me that the option in the settings says, "Set up an alternative appearance."

00:44:03   And as you said, it's a reasonable feature to add.

00:44:06   Yeah, sometimes I have an alternative appearance. As far as face ID is concerned, I look different enough that it's confused, and I want to set up an alternative appearance for myself.

00:44:14   But when they phrased it that way, I was like, "Are they trying to discourage the idea of letting your spouse open it?"

00:44:21   They don't say, "Set up an alternative appearance or a second person," right?

00:44:25   So I bet a lot of people will see that option and dismiss it as not what they want.

00:44:31   They're like, "Oh, I want my spouse to be able to do it. I don't want to set up an alternative appearance for myself."

00:44:36   So I was curious as to whether it would work or not, and I tried it at WWDC.

00:44:39   And I can now unlock Matt Panzareno's phone with my face.

00:44:43   [laughter]

00:44:45   It works just fine. Now, here's the thing about it. Once you set it up, the only way that we were able to determine in the brief two seconds that we were looking at this to,

00:44:55   "We should delete my face off your phone so I can't open up your phone and steal all TechCrunch's secrets," or whatever, is to reset face ID.

00:45:04   It's not like touch ID where you see the individual fingers and you can delete the individual fingers.

00:45:08   The option after that is to reset face ID. And I was wondering when the iPhone X first came out, can they not support more than one face?

00:45:16   Is it a performance issue? Is it a storage issue?

00:45:19   Obviously, it wasn't a storage issue because they didn't add more storage to the phone by putting iOS 12 on it.

00:45:24   But it could have been a performance issue, and now they've dealt with it.

00:45:27   But it does feel kind of limiting that if you add that second face and want to ditch it, you've got to start completely over with face ID,

00:45:32   especially since that might remove all its learning that it's done about your various appearances.

00:45:38   You have to reset it and start over from scratch.

00:45:40   But anyway, I'm excited to be able to unlock my wife's phone with my face because typing in her very long passcode is tiresome.

00:45:48   Yeah, that's the problem I have. Aaron knows my passcode, but it's something like 10, 15, 20 characters. I don't remember exactly how many.

00:45:55   It's long enough that it's a pain in the butt, even for me.

00:45:57   And that's why it's so nice to have face or touch ID, and that's why it's such a pain with face ID that she can't unlock my phone without typing this obnoxiously long password.

00:46:06   Tell me about Mojave Dark Mode. What's going on with that?

00:46:10   Well, there's another thing that I think we didn't talk about at all on our live show, but it was a major selling feature.

00:46:18   I guess we didn't talk about it because we weren't really surprised by it and didn't feel like there was much to say.

00:46:22   After that live show, I went to the Mojave Dark Mode WWDC sessions, and I just went to them because I just wanted to see cool screenshots and stuff, and I thought, "Well, whatever, this will be a fluff session."

00:46:32   But as usual, Apple surprised me with the depth of the thought behind Dark Mode.

00:46:40   And I love these sessions. They're rare, but there are WWDC sessions where they're not just like, "Here's the APIs. Here's how you use them."

00:46:46   But it's where Apple explains their thinking. Why did we do it the way we did it, right?

00:46:51   That really doesn't have, in most cases, much of a developer impact, but it's like explaining our thinking.

00:46:58   This doesn't influence how you do things, developers, but we want you to understand why we did our things the way we did them.

00:47:04   And sometimes there's a lesson, like user's lesson in your application, but sometimes it's just like we want to explain ourselves.

00:47:09   The people behind it want to explain themselves. They want to show how thoughtful they were.

00:47:12   And the Dark Mode sessions are a good example of that, at least the first one. Maybe the second one is more about how to change your app.

00:47:18   So what did they do that you might not have thought of if you just saw the keynote presentation?

00:47:26   Well, I think as we discussed a couple of times previously, a naive implementation of Dark Mode is a problem,

00:47:33   because the way the Mac distinguishes windows from each other is with a drop shadow.

00:47:37   And if all your windows are black, for instance, how do you do the drop shadow? Does the shadow become light?

00:47:44   Like it's like an outer glow instead of an outer shadow?

00:47:48   How do you deal with having sufficient contrast or showing colors against black versus white?

00:47:55   Having text, you just make the text white, light, and the background dark, but what about colors?

00:48:00   How well do they show up on black? What about transparency, colors with transparency? How do you make that work?

00:48:06   How do you distinguish the edges of windows, even if you figure out the shadow thing?

00:48:10   And so, we'll put the link to the session in the show notes. I encourage everyone to watch it.

00:48:15   It's not that long, and it's definitely not particularly technical, but there is a surprising amount of detail that they go into,

00:48:22   and exactly how they made this work. One aspect of it made me think about, and we didn't talk about this much either,

00:48:28   but I've heard it mentioned at the WWDC, why no Dark Mode for iOS?

00:48:33   And we were talking about it in terms of OLED, like, oh, if you have black and OLED, it looks great,

00:48:38   because it turns off the pixels and it's true black, right? But Dark Mode on the Mac does not use true black almost anywhere.

00:48:45   So, that advantage of wouldn't Dark Mode look great on an OLED phone because we get true blacks is not really an advantage,

00:48:53   because almost nothing in Dark Mode, at least on the Mac, is true black, for the reasons I stated before,

00:48:58   like that you lose the ability to do any kind of contrast. Now, there's not overlapping windows on iOS,

00:49:02   so maybe it's less of a problem there, maybe they'll still do it, but certainly on the Mac,

00:49:06   you know, although until we get our 8K OLED screen with our Mac Pro next year, the OLED thing is not an issue.

00:49:13   The things that tickled me about how they dealt with this is, as they took pains to point out,

00:49:20   although I think it's a little bit ridiculous people would think this, it's not just an inversion of light mode,

00:49:24   I mean, if anyone has ever used the accessibility feature to literally invert the colors on the Mac screen,

00:49:29   they realize it doesn't look particularly attractive, it's an accessibility feature,

00:49:33   but it's not really like, let's make it look cool, like it looks like a film negative for people who are old enough to remember what that is.

00:49:40   But they made things dark, and everything is kind of a shade of gray, and to make the windows distinguishable,

00:49:47   they made the shadows much darker than they are before, and the dark shadows have a fighting chance to show up against the not-so-dark dark windows,

00:49:54   but they also had to add a little, like, single hairline pixel glow around the perimeter of all the Dark Mode windows,

00:50:01   so you could pick out the edges of the windows against the shadow, not just that shadow against the windows behind it.

00:50:06   There's a bunch of new dynamic colors that you have to set in your application.

00:50:10   If you want your application to be Dark Mode savvy, there is a surprising amount of stuff that you have to do to it.

00:50:15   It's not just flipping a flag and making sure your colors are right, you have to change a lot of things about your app if you really want to make it right.

00:50:20   They even go so far as to say, say you've got a black and white icon in a toolbar, and in Dark Mode,

00:50:25   instead of drawing black text, instead of drawing a black outline of a house, I'll draw a white outline of the house.

00:50:30   And they were like, but you just changed your house that used to be a white house into a black house.

00:50:35   It should still be a white house, so don't just invert it, fill in the field with white in the inverted version,

00:50:41   so it's still a white house on a black background. You can go pretty far down the rabbit hole trying to make your applications look good in Dark Mode.

00:50:49   Same thing with the vibrancy, with the transparency and stuff.

00:50:51   They've pulled off a pretty amazing feat, which I'm not sure that most app developers would be able to pull off,

00:50:58   of trying to make something look like it's colored but transparent but on top of black.

00:51:04   And we've seen it in the screenshots, but really look at it. Say you had to do that on your own.

00:51:08   With a color picker, you would never pick this color. It's like being a painter.

00:51:12   Some people are doing a painting or whatever and they think, well, the mountains are gray, and the sky is blue and the trees are green,

00:51:19   so I'm going to mix up some green paint for the trees, and I'll mix up some gray paint for the mountains, and mix up some blue for the sky.

00:51:26   And you just paint everything as its intrinsic color. But that's not what the world looks like.

00:51:32   The trees are actually mostly gray in the distance. They're slightly green, but they're mostly gray,

00:51:37   and the ones in the foreground are a little bit more green. And the mountain isn't actually gray, it's actually blue on one side,

00:51:43   and really dark gray on the other. So that's what they do with Dark Mode.

00:51:49   They don't paint things the color they're supposed to be.

00:51:52   "Oh, I have a black window? I'm going to take red and put it over there. That looks like nothing.

00:51:57   How do I make the red transparent so that the black shows through the red? Do I just make the red darker?"

00:52:03   It's actually a very tricky problem. So take the eyedropper, take a digital color meter, and put it over a highlighted region,

00:52:10   and see what color that actually is, and just marvel at how it looks like a piece of transparent red plastic from a Transformers box in the 80s,

00:52:18   laid over a black window, when it is neither of those things.

00:52:22   Yeah, I can just say from my experience developing the overcast black theme on iOS,

00:52:27   it's really hard to design UIs where a prominent background color that's used often is pure 100% black.

00:52:36   It is pretty much impossible to do a lot of good, clear, complex work that way.

00:52:42   And that's why, if you look at iOS apps that succeed with their true black designs on the iPhone X,

00:52:49   it's typically apps that don't have a lot of depth to their UIs, don't have a lot of layering, where it's single, flat screens.

00:52:56   That can work. It's still hard, but it can work. But you don't get shadows, even.

00:53:01   And you don't realize how common of a design element a really small shadow is.

00:53:07   You think of today's app aesthetic as being still very flat and everything, but it's not.

00:53:12   And as we get further from iOS 7, it's actually getting less flat over time.

00:53:18   And so shadows are very commonly used to denote layering, even if it's just as simple as a slide-over sheet, or a popover, or a dialogue box.

00:53:27   There's shadows everywhere, even to do things like to help separate artwork from its background, stuff like that.

00:53:33   There's little shadows and little dark borders all around, lots of things in UIs.

00:53:38   And when your background is pure black, it's really hard to make those conventions...

00:53:45   They won't work, so it's really hard to find alternatives to those conventions that are understandable and that look good.

00:53:53   It's a surprisingly hard problem.

00:53:56   I also forgot to mention accent color, which is one of the most fun things that Apple has added since the classic Mac OS days, really.

00:54:03   The ability to change the character of your UI independent of light and dark mode.

00:54:09   Because accent colors apply in both. So if you never want to use dark mode, you still get to use accent colors.

00:54:14   And it basically changes the solid color. It's solid blue in High Sierra and many versions before.

00:54:20   What color is the OK button? The cancel button is gray, and the OK button is blue.

00:54:25   You can change that blue to a bunch of different color choices. Purple, pink, orange, even gray.

00:54:31   And that influences everything. The color radio buttons, check boxes, the little arrow thingy that's on the side of pop-up menus, and whole nine yards.

00:54:37   And that... it's fun to be able to customize the appearance of your operating system.

00:54:43   No reason other than just aesthetics. What do you like? What mood are you in? What best matches your desktop background?

00:54:50   Stephen Hackett has a nice article about dark mode showing off some of the features.

00:54:56   I would still suggest watching the sessions because they go into even more detail.

00:55:00   And this is one of the few sessions where I was watching it and I got that sort of pang of like, man, if I was doing Mac OS reviews, I would spend...

00:55:08   It would be difficult to constrain myself to one quote-unquote page. One section for this.

00:55:14   I would be doing screenshot after screenshot zoomed in at like the pixel level on every minute detail of how they do it.

00:55:20   So Stephen's got screenshots in his thing as well, but I wish I could click on them and zoom in because I don't see the details of these tiny sizes, Stephen.

00:55:29   I need to zoom in. I need to have lossless pings at native resolution. Anyway, check it out.

00:55:35   So it would be theoretically possible to write a mini review-like post just on this one topic.

00:55:44   I mean, maybe you could write it on some kind of, I don't know, what would you call something like that? Maybe like a web blog or something like that?

00:55:51   No, no, it doesn't sound right.

00:55:53   If only there was some place, some way that you could publish text and images to the world, but without having to write a 25,000 word review.

00:56:03   That's not what I want to do. Stephen already wrote a blog post about it. Yes, I would have done it slightly differently, but he covered the basis. Plus, this is the WWDC session.

00:56:11   Plus, I have this big ramble, so I figure like I've gotten out of my system, but it would have been fun.

00:56:16   Although, like, I also did think about how would you write a full review of Mojave? Because yes, dark mode is fun and you'd have a big section about it.

00:56:23   And I'd spend a lot of time talking about, you know, Mars Pan stuff eventually, but there's not much there.

00:56:28   But is there enough? You know, my full-fledged OS reviews kind of had a certain number of sections that you expected them to have, and recent Mac OS releases have been not as evenly distributed across the feature surface of the OS, let's say.

00:56:43   Yeah, but you know, that's just self-imposed. If you wanted to write a blog post about just one thing, you could. You're allowed to.

00:56:52   You're right, I could, but I don't want to.

00:56:54   It sounds like you kind of do, though.

00:56:56   I said I had a pang of regret, but one pang does not make a blog post.

00:57:02   Are you sure?

00:57:04   Have you ever really written a blog post about Mac OS?

00:57:08   I wrote a blog post about articles that have written about Mac OS. That counts, right?

00:57:13   No.

00:57:14   No, I think it does. That's about Mac OS indirectly.

00:57:16   It seems like you're capable of writing, you know, quote only a blog post if it's about something you consider trivial, like bagels or pasta.

00:57:25   I had a blog at Ars Technica, and I ported all those blog things with permission to my Hypercritical.co website.

00:57:32   So if you look, there's a Fatbit section, and you can see many blog posts about Mac OS.

00:57:36   Oh, okay. I guess it was before my time knowing you.

00:57:39   Yeah, that's right. It probably was. You should go read them. Some of them are good.

00:57:44   I used to do WWC Bingo back when I was Marilyn Mann.

00:57:48   Oh, my word.

00:57:50   Tell me about Notarized Apps. I mean, the name makes sense, but I don't know. It seems like a very peculiar name to me.

00:57:55   But I guess that there's a different stage of security and secureness to apps in Mac OS Mojave, so tell me about this, John.

00:58:05   So you've got, what is it, Gatekeeper? It's been in the OS for a while.

00:58:09   And Developer ID.

00:58:11   Yeah, well, Gatekeeper is the feature, and you have three modes.

00:58:15   One mode is anything goes whoopee old Mac OS style. That is not the default.

00:58:21   The next mode is, I've got to open up this preference so I don't blow this, Security and Privacy.

00:58:27   It's called Developer ID.

00:58:29   I know.

00:58:30   So the next mode is Mac Store and Identified Developers.

00:58:34   So Mac App Store is like, you all run applications for the Mac App Store. We know what those are.

00:58:38   And then the And Identified Developers is what Marco's talking about, which is Developer ID, which is you register with Apple, and you get an identity, and you sign your application, but your application is not in the Mac App Store.

00:58:49   And the final setting is Mac App Store Only. The only things that this Mac will run are things from the Mac App Store.

00:58:54   The default setting is the middle one, and there's always a bypass where you can right-click and do open and click through a dialog and get it to open up.

00:59:00   So people have been scared about this for years because they worried that Apple would make a Mac that can only run software that Apple approves.

00:59:07   I mean, nobody wants that because we all want to be able to run whatever the heck software we want on our Macs, but we also appreciate the additional safety of these settings.

00:59:16   In particular, I never change it to the old style anything goes thing because it's so easy to bypass on a case-by-case basis if you leave it on the middle setting.

00:59:24   The middle setting gives you advantages, which is that if there is a malicious developer out there, Apple can revoke that developer's identity, and your Mac will refuse to launch their application.

00:59:34   So if there's some malware that goes out there and Apple detects it, they can revoke this developer's identity, and then everyone else who has that software is protected after that.

00:59:42   So Notarize applications is not really a change to this model. It's just an enhancement.

00:59:48   And the enhancement is to allow Apple to revoke the ability to launch a specific app.

00:59:55   If they revoke the developer's ID, every application that belongs to that developer is nuke.

00:59:59   So say like some hacker got into a third-party developer's thing and poisoned one of their applications, but all their other applications were fine.

01:00:06   With developer ID, they would have to kill all that developer's applications.

01:00:12   But with Notarized apps, they can kill the one specific application that has the malware inserted into it.

01:00:19   And the way it does this is by communicating with Apple's Notary service on launch and saying, "Hey, I'm application XYZ. Am I allowed to launch?"

01:00:28   Rather than saying, "Hey, I'm an application signed by developer XYZ. Is developer XYZ in good standing, and I'm allowed to launch their applications?"

01:00:36   So this seems like a good change, a good enhancement. I can imagine eventually Notarized applications replacing developer ID applications.

01:00:45   It's basically just an enhancement of developer ID. In both situations, you need to register with Apple.

01:00:50   In both situations, Apple servers are involved in it somehow, if only sending definitions to your computer about what it isn't allowed to run.

01:00:59   Notarized, I think, checks on demand every single time with the service.

01:01:03   Well, there's a pretty major difference in how the app gets signed, though.

01:01:07   Well, you're saying you have to contact Apple service to do the signing, too? Like, is there the Notary on it?

01:01:14   Whereas developer ID, you can just sign it locally without a network connection? Is that a difference?

01:01:17   Yes, but it's a little bit more complex than that. If I'm understanding this correctly, so developer ID, it happens entirely locally.

01:01:26   Once you get your certificate from Apple that you register with, the entire signing process from your version of Xcode to your customer's Macs can happen on your computer.

01:01:36   You can generate the final build and put it on your server or send it to people, and it works and it's verified as you, because it's just a signature and a certificate.

01:01:45   The new one, the Notarized thing, requires the app binaries to be uploaded to Apple servers and requires them to go through something that sounds a lot like the processing step with iTunes Connect, now App Store Connect.

01:02:01   And as iOS developers know, that is not just a simple reading of the file, it's also not very fast.

01:02:09   So there's a couple of problems with this. Number one is that processing step on the iOS, iTunes Connect infrastructure, at least, can take half hour, maybe, on a good day, sometimes longer, sometimes a little bit shorter, but minimum is usually 20 minutes.

01:02:24   And so, it seems to be like you're stuck behind a big queue, so that just slows down development and complicates things. It becomes an asynchronous thing that you have to submit to Apple and then wait, and then download the file from them.

01:02:39   So you can't just have a script that signs a build, publishes it, and you're done. It adds complexity, because you have to wait until this processing step is done that happens sometime, and occasionally gets stuck.

01:02:50   That's just for release builds, though, right? Yes, it is for release builds. But still, that's still an extra step, and it makes something less automatable, it makes something more complicated, and it increases the chances that your release that you want to do might have to be delayed by a couple hours if it gets stuck and you have to make a support ticket, because that actually does happen with the iTunes Connect stuff.

01:03:11   And so, that's one problem. The other problem is, Apple hasn't, I don't think, been incredibly clear on what kind of verification they're going to do. So, for instance, on the iOS one, during that processing step, they're doing all sorts of automated checks on that app binary.

01:03:27   Now, we know the whole purpose of this is to scan for malware. That makes sense, sure, I'm sure they're going to do that, but one thing the iOS one does is also scans for things like private API usage, and will automatically, with no human decision involved, will automatically every time reject an app that uses any private API symbols.

01:03:47   Are they going to do that on the Mac too? For this non-app store distribution method that will soon probably be the only distribution method that works without changing massive defaults? Will they, at some point in the future, require all apps to do this unless you do something crazy like disable SIP?

01:04:06   If you look at how this is today, right now today, as we know it, which I don't think the system's actually running yet, but as you know it today, we know the iOS version just adds delays and makes things asynchronous and makes things occasionally just stop for hours at a time for no reason.

01:04:23   But in the future, this could be used badly. It could be used to actually prevent Mac apps that exist today from being able to use the system at all, which could in the future prevent them from being run either easily or at all.

01:04:40   So for instance, if your app uses a private API, is this system going to automatically reject it, and therefore in a future version of Gatekeeper, your app will just be unsignable? That's kind of crappy, and that's not good for the platform, I would argue.

01:04:56   So there are some red flags here for that, that I hope they don't do it badly like that, but this kind of system now gives them the ability to, and not only as some kind of crazy theoretical thing, but just if it works the way the iOS processing step always has, then it will do this. And I don't love that.

01:05:17   So that's the slippery slope argument that everyone was worried about when Gatekeeper came out. It could just be that the slope is slippery, but everything about macOS development is slow, and it's taking a long time to slip down the slope.

01:05:29   So this is like a decade-long locking down of the Mac. But thus far, they haven't made any moves in that direction. And I think the one that people are really wary of is not so much about how annoying it is to have a signed application, but the ability to run on-signed ones, period.

01:05:45   By making that either extremely difficult or impossible for regular people, that would really change the character of the Mac.

01:05:52   Things like SIP for third-party applications make me think that they don't have a change in philosophy.

01:05:57   Well, first of all, they took great pains to say there are no new guidelines for App Review, which is kind of a non-secret, because we're not talking about App Review, we're talking about developer ID. The rules for the Mac App Store do not change, but this is kind of outside that.

01:06:09   And second, SIP for third-party applications is the reverse. It lets third-party applications use the tools of the OS to lock themselves down in a way that was previously only open to the OS.

01:06:21   So it's third-party applications keeping users out of their business. And I know it's mostly an unrelated feature to this, but it makes me think that they realize that on the Mac, that it would be a bad idea to reject Mac applications that use private APIs.

01:06:39   It's been part of the culture forever, unlike on iOS. And the whole point of this is that they already have something that rejects you for using private APIs. It's called the Mac App Store. This is not that.

01:06:52   I can imagine them changing the default to Mac App Store only if and when they're able to make the Mac App Store get up to snuff again and getting Office and Adobe in there as a step in that direction.

01:07:02   So maybe their goal could be, you know, in three years, let's change the default. But I really hope they never do get rid of the ability to run apps from anywhere.

01:07:12   And I really hope they don't take any of the Mac App Store guidelines and port them down to Notarize, because then what's the point? Then instead of having three options, you really just have two.

01:07:20   And the only difference is in one case, Apple takes 30% of your money and hosts your file for you. I want to clarify before we leave this topic, Apple did actually say explicitly a future version of Mac OS will require developer ID apps to be notarized.

01:07:32   So notarized apps will replace dev ID. In the future, which future OS? Next year? The year after? Who knows? They didn't say, but we'll see.

01:07:42   Oh, it's next year for sure. Let's be realistic here. We're just lucky they didn't do it this year.

01:07:47   Moving on, Safari got some cool stuff. It got tracking prevention. And so tell me about this Facebook example dialogue.

01:07:56   I just thought it was funny, like when they're talking about Safari, all these sorts of security features to show how they prevent websites from dragging you.

01:08:03   They used Facebook as the example of the thing they're stopping from tracking you, which is a little on the nose, but it's good that they're not pulling punches, especially considering how Apple used to in the past.

01:08:15   I think it's all gone now. Have direct integration with Facebook for things like contacts and have like, I think they still let you. Do they still let you have a Facebook account in your like accounts thing?

01:08:25   No, they pulled that all out last year. Yeah. So anyway, Apple has spent a few years with sort of most favored nation status given to like Facebook and Twitter and a bunch of services that we're not familiar with because they exist in China.

01:08:41   And they seem to be moving away from that and saying, you know what, get out of our messages service, Yahoo, AIM, iZQ, get out of our system dialog box, Facebook.

01:08:51   You're not allowed to use our contact data. Just, you know, going back on all that stuff and now really taking a very aggressive stance with Safari at doing whatever they possibly can to thwart websites tracking you.

01:09:06   Right. So one avenue of doing this, they already did this in what the, in High Sierra's version of Safari, where they try to detect when a cookie is being used to track you across websites and periodically delete it to try to prevent you from being tracked across websites.

01:09:26   Like they basically make their web browser broken. It's supposed to say, hey, store this cookie in on my expiration time. And Safari tries to say that cookie doesn't look legit. Like it's not a cookie.

01:09:36   The domain for that cookie seems too broad or I see it being read by web, by multiple websites or it's being read by a little bug on a page. And I don't like that.

01:09:46   So I let you have the cookie and I let you set it. But every once in a while, I'm going to delete it just just to fuzz things up to make it harder to track these people.

01:09:53   Now they're taking it even farther and looking at all the things that the websites do that don't use, you know, the most obvious thing, which is just cookies or other local storage to track you.

01:10:03   Lots of websites do stuff where even if you run kind of an incognito mode or constantly clear cookies or whatever, they use JavaScript to access attributes of you, of your web browser.

01:10:15   Things like what fonts do you have installed, what configuration do you have installed, what's the resolution of your screen, you know, all sorts of stuff that you wouldn't think has anything to do with you.

01:10:25   But just like but if they combine seven or eight of those things, they can come up with what they call fingerprinting, like a fingerprint of you.

01:10:31   You know, how many people have this exact combination of attributes at this time with this user agent on this device with this thing?

01:10:39   And they can use that fingerprint to track you across websites. And so now Safari is going to lie to websites about exactly all that stuff.

01:10:47   It's going to lie about what fonts you have installed. It's going to lie about what plugins you have installed. It's going to lie about your configuration.

01:10:52   It's going to make you seem generic and make all Safari's users look like they have the same fonts installed, the same plugins, the same configuration, the same screen size, stuff like that.

01:11:02   Which is, you know, if you got back in time 20 years and said, you know, soon web browsers will have the ability to tell what, you know, all these attributes of your system, like, wow, I could do such interesting things with that and say, yeah, but browsers are going to lie and tell you fake information because if they don't, people will track you and show you the same ad across a million different websites.

01:11:23   They're also getting rid of all the legacy plugins that could do all sorts of nasty things to your browser. They've, you know, they've been deprecating those for years now. Finally, they're going to go away.

01:11:32   Unfortunately, they also got rid of their own legacy plugins. Safari extensions they introduced many years ago.

01:11:38   They're not going away entirely, but the only way, the only ones you're allowed to use are the ones from Apple's App Store, which means that my beloved reload button, the most sophisticated Safari extension ever created, which reloads your web page,

01:11:50   is breaking in Mojave because I can't put it on the Apple's App Store for extensions. I used to be on their little App Store for extensions, like when the extensions first came out.

01:12:03   And then later they changed it around and you had to sign a certificate, which I did. And then later they had like a separate store for it. And they said, if you want your extension to keep showing up, submit it.

01:12:12   And I submitted it to them and they said, this extension has insufficient functionality, which I can't really blame them because it's kind of true. So my reload button is dead, which is sad.

01:12:21   But more importantly, a bunch of other extensions that I used to use are also dead and I'm kind of annoyed by that. So I'm trying to encourage those developers to get into the Safari extension App Store thingy so I can continue to use our extensions.

01:12:31   If you want to work around this, by the way, I discovered this on Twitter today, you can use Safari Extension Builder to load the extensions and run them. And you just have to type in your admin password, which is kind of scary, but you have to type in your admin password and that will get them to run.

01:12:45   The problem is every time you quit Safari and relaunch it, all your extensions are gone again. So not great, but there's a workaround.

01:12:54   And my final point on this topic is Apple went through all this stuff and it's crowd-pleasing. People are like, I don't want to be tracked by Facebook. I love how you're doing these clever things to thwart people trying to fingerprint me.

01:13:05   And I don't like Flash, I guess, so yay, legacy plugins going away.

01:13:11   But in the end, as people are applauding, I was thinking as a, you know, long-time web developer, Apple somehow got an entire audience full of technical people to applaud for potentially breaking websites.

01:13:22   And not that I'm saying Apple shouldn't do this stuff, but every time Apple does stuff like this, some website somewhere that you're going to use is going to break in some weird way and you're not going to understand.

01:13:31   And it's going to be because either Safari's "intelligent tracking prevention and fingerprinting" are going awry or because they're working exactly the way they're supposed to and this website literally stops functioning when they can't track you.

01:13:44   And both of those things are prone to happen. It's one of the, you know, one of the downsides of running a content blocker or an ad blocker or any of those things that I think we all run in some form or another is that you have to be careful because we all don't want to be tracked, but we're also super annoyed if some website we're using doesn't work.

01:14:00   Especially if it doesn't work in subtle ways that you think might just be a bug with the website and then it takes you like 20 minutes to an hour to realize, oh, it's my content blockers.

01:14:08   And if I reload this page without content bloggers, suddenly it works, which by the way, you can do on iOS by holding the reload button down. I think you can do a Mac OS with a similar thing.

01:14:15   So it's not that hard to do, but it's for me at least it's hard to remember that maybe what's going wrong here and it might not just be that like my cell connection is bad and that's why I'm tapping this button, nothing's happening.

01:14:25   It might not be happening because this website is being broken by some security thing.

01:14:30   So anyway, good moves by Apple, but I'll miss my reload button and I'm a little bit wary about websites breaking.

01:14:37   Honestly, I'm not that concerned about that. With the intelligent tracking prevention that they did last year, the first version of the system as you described, as far as I could tell, nothing seemed to break from that.

01:14:48   There was never a time in this whole year so far where I've thought, well, better disable that or better switch to Chrome because that must be breaking what I'm doing right now.

01:14:56   So that was a pretty conservative approach, I think. Obviously this year, what they're doing with this is a little more aggressive and honestly, I think that's a good thing.

01:15:05   Ultimately, if you look at the browser landscape, Google, the advertising company that does a lot of this tracking stuff themselves and has zero respect for people's desires not to be tracked, they're not going to do crap for Chrome.

01:15:21   Like Chrome is not going to lead the way on this and the only two browsers that have enough market share to do things like this without having a lot of people just get mad and switch away are probably Safari and Chrome.

01:15:33   And so Apple, I think, is the only major browser vendor that both has the market position to do things like this without the whole web just saying, well, F off.

01:15:45   Fine, our site will break in your browser and it'll work in everyone else's. Apple has the clout to try this and they actually have the motivation to do things like this.

01:15:54   Whereas Google has motivation to do this as well. Oh, no way. Yeah, yeah, listen. I think they've probably already done stuff like this. I just haven't been keeping up with it.

01:16:04   Google's motivation is to kill everybody's tracking except their own. So because they build a web browser, they can build, they can literally build in any Google specific tracking they want like into the web browser.

01:16:17   That's true. And block everything from everybody else. Now they're not going to do that, but by owning the web browser and because they are an advertising company, they can do exactly what Apple's doing and become super aggressive about blocking stuff.

01:16:28   But instead switch all of Google's tracking entirely like literally within the browser's code itself. Like you just have like some tag on the page that says Google Chrome, do your thing.

01:16:39   And Google Chrome totally internally based on the do your things tag will have its own internal tracking that they can update with their auto update mechanism or whatever.

01:16:46   So I kind of think Google is motivated to block every other tracking system except for theirs because they make money in advertising and the degree to which other people's advertising systems are crappier than theirs is good for them.

01:16:58   That's true. Yeah. And honestly, you say they wouldn't do that. I think they totally would do that. The only reason they probably haven't done that yet is maybe antitrust concerns. Although honestly, in this day and age, no one's enforcing that.

01:17:10   And it would break the web. Like if they were super aggressive and it totally broke everybody else's stuff, it would break more than just like it's because they're all using the same tools to do it.

01:17:18   They're using cookies, so you can't totally break cookies. They're using JavaScript. You can't turn off JavaScript. So it's actually very tricky to do, which is why it's hard work.

01:17:25   That's why Apple, you know, again, they did the cautious thing with the tracking prevention. They're ramping it up. It's very easy to accidentally break the web by doing this stuff.

01:17:32   So you actually have to, when they say intelligent tracking prevention, remember there actually is a, not a machine learning, but an intelligence aspect to this where you have to do it very carefully and test a lot.

01:17:42   And you can't just blanket block anything because you will break the web. Ultimately though, I wonder like is quote breaking the web that bad of a thing these days?

01:17:51   You know, we've had a lot, we've had years and years and years, over a decade of browser extensions being commonplace that can do things like block JavaScript on certain pages or block all JavaScript or things like that.

01:18:03   Like we've had like people routinely quote breaking the web for themselves voluntarily for a long time now. I would also argue that today there's more reason than ever to break your web.

01:18:15   Like the web tracking and web ads are so abusive and so just immoral and creepy and sleazy and just bargain basement garbage, shameless, like they're so bad that as time goes on, I feel like the reason to break your web voluntarily for yourself with things like this, not only does the reason go up,

01:18:44   but also I think the downside gets reduced because over time the web has less usage and more alternatives. You know what happens?

01:18:54   Like so, you know, I run a content blocker in Safari. You know what happens if I go to a site that breaks it? I close the tab and I go do something else.

01:19:02   I go read someone else's site that it doesn't break in or I go do something else that isn't browsing the web. Like we have so many options and things to do.

01:19:10   This is why the web is struggling in a lot of ways, but like there's so much competition for everything on the web these days that if the way I like to run things for my own safety, security, and speed breaks your site, my reaction isn't I'm going to disable my blocker.

01:19:27   My reaction is screw your site. I'll go somewhere else.

01:19:30   I think that's the reaction of us on this program and most people listening to it, but people who are not into technology just want their websites to work. And if you try to like, if you install a blocker on their thing and it breaks Facebook in even the most minor way, they will immediately uninstall the blocker.

01:19:46   They won't even, oh, you can whitelist Facebook. Nope, nope, just uninstall. You broke the web for me. Like people just want, they just want their stories.

01:19:52   They just want the two websites they ever go to, Facebook and probably something else, to work all the time, 100% of the time. And if this thing causes any sort of problem, they will immediately delete it.

01:20:02   So I think it's important for us tech nerds to be on the forefront of this because we are the ones who are trying to push this forward. We're the ones who are willing to not go to a website to break stuff to deal with the brokenness.

01:20:13   And that I think is pushing the web and pushing, you know, Apple. Apple is part of that, pushing everything in the right direction. Most normal people, they are not an agent of change. They are merely victims of these things.

01:20:23   So building it into Safari, I think, is a big step because it's not a thing that people can turn off as far as I know. So Apple has to be really careful with it. But it does, it like raises the bar for everybody.

01:20:33   And to be real, it's a cat and mouse game. Apple does this, the advertisers do that, so on and so forth. Same thing with Google. Someone said in the chat that Google Chrome actually does have some blocking already built in for the most annoying kinds of ads.

01:20:45   And for years they've all had pop-up blocking. You guys remember the web when pop-ups were not blocked by web browsers and you had pop-unders and all that other stuff, right?

01:20:53   So every time browser vendors have taken that next step, that has really pushed the web forward. And we have influence by, you know, recommending to everybody, "No, you shouldn't use IE6, you should use Chrome." Right?

01:21:06   What made Chrome become as popular as it is on Windows? Part of it is tech nerds who had heard of Chrome and no one else had forcibly installing it on all their friends' computers and saying, "Use this, don't use IE, it's better." Right?

01:21:19   And I think, you know, we can't forcibly install Safari on people's Windows machines anymore, but I think being enthusiastic about browsers and blockers and stuff like that and evangelizing them to regular people who otherwise wouldn't look at them is help moving this forward as well.

01:21:37   Not sure if we're winning this war, but I'm glad that there are at least combatants on both sides instead of so many other situations in the tech and especially government worlds having combatants only on one side and just victims on the other.

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01:23:30   Let's do some Ask ATP. It starts with Rodrigo Palau who writes, "I love hearing you guys talk about the cutting edge stuff. What do you think are the essential Mac apps for the super novice user?"

01:23:38   I'm not sure how to answer this. I have a lot of things that I consider important for me, but I wouldn't necessarily say that any of them is important for your novice user. The only thing that can come to mind is Alfred, which is my particular launcher of choice.

01:23:57   I think one or both of you guys use Quicksilver. Launch Bar is another popular one. That's on the Mac, right? Or am I making that up?

01:24:03   Yep, Launch Bar. That's the one I use.

01:24:05   Other than a launcher, Alfred just does the same stuff that Spotlight does, but in a way that agrees with my head a little better. Other than that, I can't really think of anything. Do you guys, let's start with Marco. Do you have any apps that you would recommend?

01:24:17   I would honestly say that I don't think a launcher is necessary for most people. I would just use Spotlight because by default, I think it even has the command space key that is the standard launcher key.

01:24:27   For me, the best thing for most novices to do on a Mac is to use as many of the built-in apps as possible because Apple is pretty good at making novice apps for common tasks. The built-in calendar is fine. It's not great, but it's fine. Built-in Apple Notes is really good, actually.

01:24:46   There's a couple of rough edges here and there, but for the most part, it's really good. The built-in Reminders is okay. I would say Things is significantly better to be your to-do app if you want a to-do app, but Reminders is okay in the meantime.

01:25:01   All the built-ins, Mail is good, Safari is good, as you were just saying. Just use a bunch of the built-in stuff, I would say. Maybe add things to it, although I think it's probably a little bit expensive for most novices, if I had to guess. Otherwise, yeah, just use Apple's stuff. Use Photos. Use Notes.

01:25:17   It's all really good. Use iCloud to sync and backup your contacts and everything like that. I use most of the stuff myself. It's great. There's a good suggestion from Espressly in the chat to use 1Password. I really like 1Password a lot, and I was kind of late to that game, but I'm very glad I joined that game.

01:25:35   But that being said, I think it's still a little clunky and complicated for novices. I don't know that I would recommend it for novices.

01:25:43   Yeah, I would agree with everything you just said about 1Password. I'll also put in the show notes, I have a link to an article I wrote probably two or three years ago now, 2016, there you go, where I put in basically, it was for myself more than anyone else, but I put in a checklist of all the things that I tend to install.

01:25:59   To be clear, most of this is super nerdy, super duper nerdy, but there may be something on here that you might think is useful. So, as a silly example, like trip mode, which I'd learned about from Jason Snell, if you're on a laptop where you can restrict what has access to the internet connection, say if you're tethering or something like that.

01:26:16   Also fiddly, but also something that may have appeal beyond just the super nerds. So, again, you can take a look through that.

01:26:23   I gotta say, the trip mode, like a lot of weird stuff breaks with trip mode in non-obvious ways because if an app uses some kind of command line thing behind the scenes and that thing isn't whitelisted, then it'll get blocked and random things just won't work. It's kind of weird. For a novice, I'm not sure I would recommend that.

01:26:40   Yeah, it's just something to look at, if nothing else, and you can see a lot of these on this post. John, what do you think?

01:26:46   So, this is asking for not just novice users, but super novice users, and I think my advice to them would be, like, there's probably one sort of main thing you're doing with your Mac, especially if it's a work-related thing.

01:27:01   As far as my work is mostly writing. It's writing or drawing or like, you know, what are you doing with Mac spreadsheets, whatever.

01:27:07   I would say that if you are a super novice user, like Marco said, just stick with the stuff that's built in there. There's a lot of stuff built in that covers most of the bases, but whatever it is that you're doing, there is probably one or two or three popular, powerful Mac applications for doing whatever it is you're doing better than whatever is built in.

01:27:26   So if you're a writer, you could probably use TextEdit and get by with the fine, but depending on the kind of writer you are, if you're like a fiction writer, maybe look at Scrivener or Ulysses, or if you're a coder, you know, look at BB-Edit or some other kind of it, right?

01:27:37   There's some application, if you're an artist, there's some built-in applications for doing some kinds of art, but obviously you look at Photoshop or, you know, Acorn or whatever.

01:27:49   Like in every one of those realms, especially if the realms of the Macs are popular, you have to do a little bit of research. If you're a super novice user, maybe you've never even heard of Acorn, you know, or maybe you've never heard of Scrivener, right?

01:28:00   You know, like you've heard of Microsoft Word. It's like, is that what I can get? Oh, Word, Word is for the Mac. I should just get that. Word may not be the best application for you.

01:28:07   The Mac, what makes the Mac great is there are applications like Ulysses and Scrivener that are not Microsoft Word and are, you know, I would say simpler and more elegant and dedicated to specific use cases.

01:28:20   You should find those applications for the one important thing you're doing with your Mac and everything else, use the standard tools.

01:28:26   And then I would say I was going to offer a launcher as like, and finally, if you ever graduate out of super novice user, maybe the first sort of quote unquote power user thing you might want to look into is find a launcher.

01:28:37   And there's lots of cool ones to choose from, and they're a very simple application that does a few simple things, a little bit better than Spotlight, and it's a good sort of entree into the world of Mac customization and more sophisticated use.

01:28:51   Moving on, Jack Johnson writes, "Do you think Apple could make an Android version of iMessage for cross-platform compatibility? Set aside the question of whether or not they would make it, even if they could, for reasons like platform tie-in and et cetera."

01:29:03   There were rumors a while back that this was already in progress, and I would be surprised if they hadn't at least, you know, kicked the can on this one or kicked the tires, I guess I should say, on this one.

01:29:13   I don't think they're interested in it, because I do think there is tremendous lock-in, but I don't personally see any reason why they wouldn't be able to.

01:29:23   I mean, you could look at the way they treat iMessage on the Mac, and you can kind of like, well, if they could even maintain this on like two OSs, let alone adding another one.

01:29:35   I mean, that being said, obviously Android I think would have probably more of an upside for them if they wanted the most people possible using iMessage, but I think the lock-in thing is really the key here.

01:29:45   iMessage is a great lock-in for iPhones. This has been, I think surveys and business research and things have actually shown this to be the case.

01:29:53   One of the major reasons people stick with iPhones, who might otherwise be a little curious to try Android or something, is because they know they'd become a green bubble friend, and they don't want to be a green bubble friend.

01:30:04   That's a real thing. That's a real major effect. So I can't see Apple being willing to give that up for what benefit.

01:30:14   Basically, I think the answer shouldn't be like, if they could do an Android version. I think the answer is, what would they gain from doing an Android version?

01:30:22   They're not making money on iMessage directly. What would they gain from that? I don't see any answer to that question that would make it worth giving up the massive amount of lock-in that it gives them.

01:30:35   This ties into something I mentioned earlier about messages being Apple's most successful quote-unquote social network, which is, again, not a high bar because they're not particularly good at this.

01:30:46   The question is, could they? Yes, absolutely they could. They've made Windows versions of all sorts of stuff. They have an Android version of Apple Music.

01:30:54   In fact, when I read this question, I was like, wait, do they have an Android version of iMessage? And I realized I was thinking of Apple Music. I think, right? They have Apple Music on Android?

01:31:01   Yeah, because there was Beats Music when they bought it. And unlike many other products where Apple usually cans the Windows versions, they didn't for that, so there is Apple Music for Android.

01:31:11   Anyway, if there ever comes a time where it is in Apple's strategic interest to have a foothold in the social networking space, like say Facebook is on the wane and it is slowly destroyed by our cumulative hatred for it.

01:31:26   Our meaning on this podcast, three people we're going to take down Facebook with our mind. And there's a power vacuum, right?

01:31:35   Apple is like, well, you know, there's WhatsApp and Line and all those other things. And Apple will be like, we're a player there, right? Like maybe we're not as big as WhatsApp or Line, but why aren't we as big?

01:31:46   Like we're, you know, it's been historically, as Marco said, a lock-in is such a harsh word, a differentiating factor for the iPhone, you know, a network effect kind of thing, right?

01:31:56   But at some point the math could switch and say, actually, we have a shot at the brass ring here, there's a gold iPhone, I don't know if we have a shot at the ring, I think it's brass.

01:32:05   We have a shot at the brass ring.

01:32:06   The space gray ring?

01:32:07   Yeah. If we just open this up, we can take iMessage, you know, we can triple the size of it overnight maybe because, you know, like carry the wave of that network effect and say, now suddenly why would Android people sign up for this?

01:32:20   Oh, because they want to be Blue Bubble friends too, like the last gasp of that, the exclusivity, even though you've just eliminated exclusivity, they're still the people who wish they had Blue Bubbles briefly and then, you know, overwhelm the competitors and become the most important text messaging subsystem.

01:32:36   Remember, it's not just text messaging and they don't make money off of it, right?

01:32:39   But Apple Pay is an app in there and Apple Pay is the thing they do make money off of, presumably.

01:32:44   And it is kind of an app platform.

01:32:47   So there may come a time in the future where Apple is in Apple's strategic interest to try to like put strap rockets to their one successful social network and see if that can take them to the next level, to make them a player in a space where historically they have not been a player.

01:33:03   But I don't think that's going to happen today.

01:33:06   Finally, Mustafa Hemui writes, "This one is for Syracuse.

01:33:10   It seems that everyone is suddenly talking about streaming console quality games to thin clients.

01:33:14   Are the days of gaming consoles numbered?"

01:33:17   So what they're saying is, do all the like graphics processing in the cloud.

01:33:21   And you're basically doing like a glorified VNC or something like that where it's just beaming the fully rendered display to your console or your computer or what have you.

01:33:32   And you're interacting with something that is very, very stupid and not very powerful, but it has a very, very good connection to the internet.

01:33:39   So is that the way things are going from here?

01:33:41   So we've gone from plastic disks in cardboard boxes and trucks that you drive your car or whatever to the store and get and bring back home and load.

01:33:49   And we've gone to, okay, we don't need the plastic disks.

01:33:51   We can download the bits onto your computer.

01:33:53   Actually, before that, we went to plastic disks that you buy and bring home and stick in your console.

01:33:57   And then it copies every single bit of data off of the plastic disk onto your hard drive.

01:34:01   And then it plays off the hard drive, but you have to have the disk in for stupid copy protection reasons.

01:34:05   Then it's like no disk at all, download directly to your computer or to your console.

01:34:09   And it's like a one-time bit download with frequent updates and content additions.

01:34:16   Then we had don't download all the bits because it's really big.

01:34:19   Just download enough bits for you to start playing the game, like the PlayStation 4 fast start thing.

01:34:23   I think Xbox has a similar thing now.

01:34:25   So it's still not streaming the game. It's still running locally, but it's sending you just enough bits to start the game.

01:34:31   And then it runs it locally and then in the background downloads more bits.

01:34:33   And then the final stage of that, which we've had with OnLive and the various, that company that Sony bought that emulates PS3 games and runs PS3 games remotely.

01:34:42   And what is the other one? NVIDIA Now.

01:34:44   A whole bunch of these services that literally do not run the game locally.

01:34:47   Run it in a data center somewhere on a much more powerful device and beam it over to you.

01:34:52   And so it seems like a trend of like we're obviously going in that direction.

01:34:56   Everything's going to go there.

01:34:57   But physics is a harsh mistress here for certain categories of games.

01:35:02   Not all, but certain categories of games, the latency imposed by the physical distance and the speed of light.

01:35:07   And, you know, in the US, the crappiness of our internet connections means that certain genres or games are not going to become streaming anytime soon.

01:35:21   Like you would need direct fiber optic connections to a fairly close data center for it to make sense for those genres.

01:35:28   But for every other genre of game, and there are many of them that don't require those kind of, you know, reflexes, it's just an economic question.

01:35:37   Yeah, it's great to be able to sell someone a cheap box that doesn't have a lot of electronics in it.

01:35:42   But you still need to pay for the electronics that are not in that box.

01:35:45   You need to pay for the ones in the data center.

01:35:46   And you're hoping to get sharing out of it.

01:35:48   Like, well, people aren't all playing games at the same time.

01:35:50   So I don't have to buy one giant gaming PC from my data center for every customer.

01:35:55   I have to buy, you know, 0.3 gaming PCs, 0.1.

01:36:00   And depending on how that math works out and how much data center power costs and all that other stuff, it could make sense to do that.

01:36:06   But it's a thing that everybody is trying right now.

01:36:10   So everyone's seeing how that works out.

01:36:12   You know, does it just make sense for old games?

01:36:13   Does it make sense for people who can't afford big gaming PCs and we can get them to rent games?

01:36:18   And like, I don't think anyone has shown that model to be particularly lucrative.

01:36:22   So I think in the next one or two or three generations, we are still going to be downloading bits and running things locally.

01:36:29   But five generations from now, it seems conceivable to me, especially for like TV connected pucks or TVs themselves.

01:36:36   And they've done this as well.

01:36:37   There's like a PlayStation Now TV puck thing.

01:36:40   And I think they built it into some of the TVs.

01:36:42   For games that don't require latency, that could be insane by the phone games.

01:36:47   That could be, you know, the dominant form of cheap gaming for the rest of us.

01:36:52   But I think for the rest of all of our lives listening to this, running games on a local device will still be a thing at the high end anyway.

01:37:01   Thanks to our sponsors this week, Aftershocks, Rover, and Molekule.

01:37:05   And we'll talk to you next week.

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01:37:42   E-Y-L-I-S-S So that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-N-T-Marco-Armin S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-S-C-R-A-Q-S-A-It's accidental

01:37:59   They didn't mean to Accidental Tech Podcast So Long

01:38:08   Well, what else is going on? Your job! You quit your job, you had a job,

01:38:12   and now you don't. Well, I still do for now.

01:38:15   Soon you won't. But soon I won't. So that's the thing.

01:38:19   Yeah, so we couldn't talk about it last week because it was kind of a big event, but now

01:38:24   we can, because it's just us here. Nobody cares.

01:38:28   Yeah, but I very much care, and I think our listeners do too, as much as we joke about

01:38:33   it. So you had this big, long analog episode about it, which was excellent, so obviously

01:38:38   anybody who really wants a lot more about this, you should also listen to analog. But

01:38:43   I figure we can cover it here too. So you decided to quit your job after months of us

01:38:50   badgering you about it. What made you decide, like, it seemed like in the early part of

01:38:57   this year, right before Michaela was born, it seemed like you were kind of on the fence,

01:39:02   and you were kind of into it during your leave of absence, and then at the end of the leave

01:39:06   of absence, you seemed like you decided, you know what, actually, I don't want to go independent.

01:39:10   I want to go back to work.

01:39:12   Yeah, I think that's a fair characterization.

01:39:13   Right, and so obviously sometime between that, which was what, like late March or something

01:39:18   like that?

01:39:19   Yeah.

01:39:20   Sometime between then and June, you change your mind. What happened?

01:39:24   Yeah, and I mean, I'm perfectly happy to give the abridged version of analog. I think the

01:39:30   canonical version of this conversation, just like you said, is on analog episode 134, "Running

01:39:34   Toward a Better Future." And I put a blog post up about this, which is kind of the super

01:39:39   succinct version of it, but to answer your question more directly, a few different things

01:39:43   happened kind of all around the same time.

01:39:46   You broke a shoelace, right?

01:39:48   Broke a shoelace. That's a deep cut. I'm proud of you, Jon. I broke a shoelace, and that's

01:39:51   where it all happened. Now, what actually happened was I started arguing with my insurance,

01:39:55   and that was kind of sort of my broken shoelace moment, because it occurred to me—well,

01:40:01   it was two things. I argued with my insurance, and I actually looked at how much we pay for

01:40:07   the insurance that our employer provides. So if you're not from the U.S., generally,

01:40:11   but not always, your employer will effectively subsidize your health insurance. So they'll

01:40:17   pay a large portion of the cost. And so at around the time that I started thinking, "How

01:40:24   much am I really paying in insurance?" was when we were starting to really get the bills

01:40:28   from Michaela's birth, and the insurance is not very good. In fact, it's pretty bad, and

01:40:33   it's fairly expensive. What occurred to me was, "I've got garbage insurance that I'm

01:40:39   paying a not insignificant amount of money for. What am I doing?" Because in so many

01:40:44   ways, the thing that I was hanging my hat on for going back to work was, "I need insurance.

01:40:51   I don't want to pay for my own insurance. I don't know if I can pay for my own insurance.

01:40:54   I need insurance," which means I need a job.

01:40:57   Well, then when you realize that—a few things all at once. You realize, A, your insurance

01:41:01   sucks; B, it's expensive; C, even though I've been told this a thousand times, it

01:41:08   wasn't until I went on that trip with you, Marco, in May for Mike's bachelor party,

01:41:16   when I really got away from everything—and you guys badgered me a smidge when we were

01:41:19   out there, but it really wasn't that much—but I was able to kind of separate myself from

01:41:23   family, from work, from everything, and just kind of think. It occurred to me like, "You

01:41:28   know that thing that Marco and Aaron and Mike and everyone has been saying? You know, you

01:41:33   could always get another job? You know what? Son of a gun, I could always get another job.

01:41:38   That's a thing I could do." And I make fun of myself, but it really is—it took

01:41:44   that separation for me to really evaluate it less emotionally and more quantitatively.

01:41:54   And another thing that occurred to me was, you know, if I look at the money that I'm

01:41:58   lucky enough to earn from this podcast and my other kind of side hustles, if I look at

01:42:03   that as just a number and don't think about where that money comes from, it occurred to

01:42:08   me, "Oh crap, I would have quit my job like two years ago." But I think of the money

01:42:14   that is earned from podcasting as not real, which is unfair of me, and it's wrong of

01:42:21   me, but it feels not real because it doesn't feel like podcasting can be a real job. And

01:42:28   I don't want to lose sight of the fact that I am—well, all three of us, but me especially—I

01:42:33   am deeply, deeply, deeply lucky and unbelievably privileged to be in the position where the

01:42:41   three of us earn enough money from this podcast and with our extracurriculars that me leaving

01:42:47   a full-time job is something that's even possible, let alone—that I could even consider

01:42:54   it, let alone actually do it. But it occurred to me, and I know this is a hilarious thought

01:42:59   exercise, but this is the thought technologies I needed. If FastText had earned the exact

01:43:06   dollar amount that this and my other extracurriculars have earned over the last couple of years,

01:43:12   I would have quit a long time ago because FastText—again, for example—but FastText

01:43:16   is a real job that's writing code, that's producing a thing, it's tangible, sort of,

01:43:20   it's real. But podcasting, man, that doesn't count, that's not real. But when I realized,

01:43:24   okay, I can always get another job, my insurance today sucks, this is enough money that I should

01:43:30   be able to survive, and then I started doing like the world's biggest number—well, that's

01:43:34   not really true, but figuratively speaking, the world's biggest number spreadsheet to

01:43:37   try to figure out, okay, no, really, you know, looking at, you know, the money that we've

01:43:41   earned, is this really something that's possible? It occurred to me, like, this is a thing that

01:43:48   I should be able to do. And we might have to make some lifestyle changes, you know,

01:43:52   I think I talked on analog, you know, we tend to go out to eat a lot. Now, not so expensive

01:43:55   places to like, places that most of you would be disgusted by, but there are places that

01:44:00   we enjoy, like say Wendy's, as an example, you know, we might go out to Wendy's once

01:44:03   for lunch on the weekends. And that adds up over time, man, you know, like 10, $20 worth

01:44:07   of food, you know, every set, not that we go to Wendy's every Saturday, but for the

01:44:11   sake of conversation, you know, 20 bucks for lunch every Saturday, that adds up real quick.

01:44:15   So silly things like that, actually, Mean Mean is mentioning cookout in the chat, that's

01:44:20   only like eight bucks, but I'm with you in principle.

01:44:23   Wait, it's cheaper than Wendy's?

01:44:25   Oh, yeah.

01:44:26   Oh, my God.

01:44:27   Oh, absolutely. Oh, it's so good, too. It's so good. I'm telling you.

01:44:30   It's not a front for organized crime. I'm getting suspicious of this cookout place.

01:44:33   It is very possible that that's the case. But anyway, but you take my point, I hope,

01:44:38   is that, you know, there may have to be some lifestyle changes. And I'm not talking dramatic

01:44:41   lifestyle changes, but some lifestyle changes because, you know, we've been lucky enough

01:44:45   that we haven't had to nickel and dime ourselves. And to be fair, you know, we don't spend

01:44:50   money particularly often. Like, you know, we buy cars once every five to ten years.

01:44:55   You know, I don't have a HomePod. I would love two HomePods. I don't really need it,

01:44:59   so I don't have one. Our TV, the biggest TV in our house is 40 inches, 1080p. And I have

01:45:04   no desire to upgrade it. Oh, that's not it. And I get a, okay, infinite money, sure, I'd

01:45:08   upgrade it. But sitting here now, it's fine. I'm okay with it. I'm only potentially buying

01:45:12   a car because my car is friggin' broke. And I'm tired of it being friggin' broke. So,

01:45:18   you know, you put all this together and, you know, we've been treating the extracurricular

01:45:22   money as, you know, money that's been mostly funneled directly into savings. So we have

01:45:27   enough in the bank that we can survive for a while if everything just disappeared tomorrow.

01:45:33   So all of that put together says that the numbers check out. So is this what I really

01:45:39   want? In talking with Aaron especially about it, it occurred to me, and again, like I had

01:45:46   known this, but I really needed to like own it as well. And it wasn't until I was away

01:45:51   from the kids in Austin for Mike's bachelor party. It occurred to me that, you know, Declan

01:45:59   is three and a half and because of when his birthday is, he's probably gonna go to kindergarten

01:46:02   when he's six, not five. And that means I have two and a half years left of being with

01:46:07   him all the time. And Michaela, you know, she's only five months old at this point,

01:46:12   but that means I only have four and a half to five and a half years with her. In a lot

01:46:17   of ways, you could make a very good argument, especially John, I suspect because, you know,

01:46:21   you have the oldest kids of all of us, but you can make an argument that being there

01:46:24   when they're super young is not that useful because they may not remember it well. You

01:46:30   know, they're barely humans for a long time, you know. I wouldn't make that argument. Okay,

01:46:34   fair. But, you know, I'm saying, you know, you could make it, one could make an argument

01:46:39   that this is a silly time to be home. But the way I look at it is, you know, from starting

01:46:43   from five or six years old until they're gone, they're gonna be in school all day. You know,

01:46:47   it's at least summer side, you know, just in general, they'll be in school all day.

01:46:50   So now seems to be the time. It seems to be the time financially. It seems to be the time

01:46:56   familial. Why wouldn't I try this? And more than anything else, if I don't try this, I'm

01:47:07   never gonna know. And if I never know, I will regret it. I might regret this later. Maybe.

01:47:14   I doubt it, but maybe. But at least I'll know that I tried. At least I'll know that I did

01:47:20   the thing that I didn't think I was capable of. And I effectively took a bag of money

01:47:25   and lit it on fire and said, you know what, I'm good, thanks. But I did it because I wanted

01:47:29   to be with my family. And I didn't know that I had the gumption, for lack of a better word,

01:47:35   to do that. But the Monday before, I'm sorry, the Tuesday before WWDC, because what was the

01:47:41   holiday that Monday? It doesn't really matter. There's a holiday that Monday. Yeah, thank

01:47:45   you Memorial Day. So I didn't do it Monday. I did it Tuesday. But I said to my boss, look,

01:47:50   I want to be home with the family. I want to work on other side projects. So the first

01:47:57   Monday in July, which is the second, is going to be my last day. So after that, I'm gonna

01:48:04   be done. He took that as well as can reasonably be hoped. But he was not particularly overjoyed

01:48:11   by this. And I don't blame him. And that's the plan. And so sitting here now, it's the

01:48:17   13th of June, which means in one, two and a half, just shy of three weeks, I will be

01:48:25   a independent worker for hopefully as hopefully as little as two and a half, three, I guess

01:48:32   two and a half years until Declan's in kindergarten. That's like my goal. The six or so years or

01:48:37   five and a half years, whatever until Michaela's in kindergarten. That's my stretch goal. And

01:48:40   my holy cow of one the lottery goal is just I never have a boss again. Well, that's awesome.

01:48:46   Even Bono has a boss, Casey. Everyone has a boss. I know. I know. But let me tell you

01:48:51   about some sponsors. How many houses do you have? Or how many bedrooms do you have in

01:48:54   your house? Did Casper sponsor this episode? No, they didn't. But if you have any extra

01:48:58   bedrooms in your house, how many years do you have in your family? Let me tell you about

01:49:00   aftershocks. They all need a pair of aftershocks. You should check them out. But no, the plan

01:49:06   is to work about half time on Casey stuff. So Casey on cars on this app that I'm semi

01:49:16   quietly trying to work on, to work on maybe some stuff about RX Swift and teaching RX

01:49:22   Swift. And you know, if 1099 work that I find is interesting and is not 40 hours a week

01:49:28   comes my way, 1099 being independent consulting if you're not American. If 1099 work comes

01:49:33   my way that I find interesting and does not take up an entire week, then sweet. But Aaron

01:49:38   and I have talked a lot about it. And the whole point of this is to not be elsewhere,

01:49:42   be that in my in-home office or Starbucks or something, is to not be elsewhere for 40

01:49:47   hours a week. Because if I'm going to be elsewhere for 40 hours a week, I might as well just

01:49:50   keep a regular job and get the free, well, not free, but you know what I mean, free healthcare.

01:49:54   And so the idea is to be around the family at least, you know, roughly half of the work

01:50:00   week and then spend the other half of the work week trying to pull the thread on all

01:50:03   these things that I've been, you know, kind of playing with but haven't been able to really

01:50:07   achieve. Now I've done a couple of Casey on cars videos, but I haven't, I've been in,

01:50:12   I've been very proud of them, but I haven't been able to work on them as much as I want

01:50:19   or as quickly as I want or with the dedication that I want, because I have a job and I have

01:50:23   a family. And now, Aaron and I, and I keep saying the word negotiated, which I think

01:50:27   has a negative connotation, but we've negotiated that I'll work, you know, roughly half a work

01:50:31   week, presumably in the house, doing these things, doing Casey on cars. There's a few

01:50:36   things for ATP I'd like to do, which I haven't talked to you guys about, which I should have

01:50:38   last week. Nothing bad, you know, some helpful things for ATP I'd like to do. I can start

01:50:43   to put more energy into these things that I haven't put as much energy as I've wanted

01:50:48   to into.

01:50:49   Well, and so, so one thing I want to place in your head, because occasionally that works,

01:50:55   is I don't mean it to be insulting. I like, I'm not saying you're dumb, I'm saying like,

01:51:00   this is an idea that most people don't, yeah, is incepting you is what he's saying.

01:51:05   Exactly right. That's exactly the first thing I thought.

01:51:06   But I didn't see the movie, so I can't say that.

01:51:08   Oh, it's so good. The problem with Inception is, the sidebar, the problem with Inception

01:51:12   is everyone tells you it's amazing. And I didn't watch Inception until like a year or

01:51:17   two after it came out and I was like, oh God, this is going to be such a chore because everyone,

01:51:20   it's like an avatar. Everyone said Avatar was amazing. It was garbage. Don't ask.

01:51:23   Who said Avatar was amazing? I agree with you about people overhyping Inception. I don't

01:51:27   think Avatar was overhyped. I think everyone kind of sneered at Avatar because it was Dances

01:51:30   with Wolves with blue people. I'm glad I saw neither of them.

01:51:33   I heard nonstop that Avatar was amazing. I did not think it was that great. Inception,

01:51:36   however, and this is where Jon's going to disagree with me, Inception was worth all

01:51:39   the damn hype. I loved that movie. I freaking loved that movie. But anyway, so you're trying

01:51:45   to incept me.

01:51:46   So what I'm going to incept you with, I think, if I understand the reference correctly,

01:51:50   which I don't, is one thing that is hard to fight against in American culture especially,

01:51:58   and I can't speak for the country, but in American culture especially, we have a few

01:52:02   cultural things that make it hard to do what you've done to make it, that are probably

01:52:06   going to be weighing on your mind. So you mentioned a few minutes ago that leaving your

01:52:11   job unnecessarily feels like setting a bag of future money on fire. Like I'm just going

01:52:16   to give them this money. And I had the same thought. When I was thinking about leaving

01:52:20   Tumblr, even though my side hustle was doing well enough that I could leave, I thought,

01:52:27   why would I give up a job? That's just giving up money. And part of that is because many

01:52:34   of us, myself included, come from modest backgrounds where why the heck would you give up money?

01:52:40   We didn't come from a place that was privileged enough that giving up money would be something

01:52:47   that a normal thinking person would do. And that's a pretty prevalent part of American

01:52:52   culture too, of why would you turn down money? Another big part of it is this kind of guilt

01:53:00   of you have to have a job. You have to be working as hard as you can. Why would you

01:53:06   ever not work a full work week? That is slacking off or something or makes you less of a person.

01:53:13   And instead of thinking of those in those American culture ways, I think it's valuable

01:53:21   to look at a different concept or a different mindset on this, which is, do you have enough?

01:53:28   And Americans are not good at thinking about this.

01:53:31   Oh no, we are not. This is real hard for us. A lot of other cultures have a much more healthy

01:53:37   relationship with the idea of having enough. We are all in an amazing position that this

01:53:44   show makes enough money that it provides all of us with enough. We could just do this show.

01:53:52   We could work like three hours a week. Or well, maybe a little more than that with the

01:53:58   overhead of other stuff. But this show takes up at most, including the recording time,

01:54:05   probably between the three of us an average of about five hours a week. This could be

01:54:08   all you do. This could be enough. You are feeling a lot of pressure right now to try

01:54:15   to fill your time with more stuff. But for instance, I honestly don't think you would

01:54:19   really enjoy consulting work very much. I don't think you would enjoy hourly, 1099 basis.

01:54:26   And the way you're talking about it, it sounds like you want to jump into that because you

01:54:31   think you should, not because you actually want to. But you totally don't need to. And

01:54:36   I would actually say, honestly, if you don't need to, which I know you don't, don't. Why

01:54:42   would you do it if you didn't need to? The only reason to do that I think would be if

01:54:47   you, as a programmer, had the itch to program a lot and didn't have your own projects to

01:54:53   invest that itch into and to satisfy that itch with. But you do. You do have your own

01:54:57   projects that you want to do, that you are doing. So I don't think you need to do that.

01:55:03   We are in incredibly fortunate positions here by having this income from this show with

01:55:09   relatively low hourly weekly loads, workloads for it, that you should just enjoy this. Because

01:55:17   you don't need to do anything else. You don't need to fill your week with 20 hours of consulting

01:55:22   work just because you feel obligated to fill that time. You have enough with this right

01:55:28   here. Literally everything else you do could just be a fun hobby or a future, kind of betting

01:55:35   on a possible future but that has no direct income right now. Everything else you do could

01:55:41   be that kind of thing. Could be like, let me place a bunch of bets and see what pays

01:55:45   off down the road. But it's all bets that I like. It's all fun projects like Casey on

01:55:49   Cars that in the future this might become a thing that makes money but it isn't now.

01:55:54   And that's fine. Literally everything else you do could be that and you'd still be fine

01:56:00   because you'd have enough.

01:56:01   Yeah. We're actually saying the same thing. I brought up the consulting earlier. I feel

01:56:06   like you're mostly right. I don't think that I would take consulting work if it was offered

01:56:13   unless it was something that I genuinely thought was interesting and novel. And even if I took

01:56:17   it, it would only be for like a day or two a week because if you think about it, I want

01:56:22   to spend about 20 hours working on things for me and one day is eight hours, two days

01:56:29   is 16 hours. Suddenly I have four hours. Not to say this is not fungible but you know what

01:56:33   I mean? If I stick with my "budget", if I do two days of consulting a week, I've already

01:56:38   blown through my budget of hours that Aaron and I have agreed upon. And so what you said

01:56:44   is exactly right. Well, everything you said is exactly right with regards to what am I

01:56:47   going to do? A) I could just do ATP and nothing else. B) I don't think I have the disposition

01:56:52   to do it though. And C) I really, even though sitting here today, knock on my glass desk

01:56:58   because I have no wood nearby, I see no particular end point for the three of us and for this

01:57:04   show. But you never know what will happen and everything does have to end eventually

01:57:07   just like you said. So what I'm, what this, these hours that I want to spend doing other

01:57:13   things, it's I want to start throwing some crap against the wall and see if any of it

01:57:18   sticks so that if one of us decides tomorrow, "You know what? I'm done." Then I have something

01:57:24   else to keep me going so I don't have to go crawling back to a regular jobby job. And

01:57:30   I don't know if any of these things will stick. Like you look at YouTube today and to make

01:57:33   money on YouTube is damn near impossible. So is Casey on Cars going to stick? Eh, probably

01:57:37   not. But does it make me happy and do I find it fun? Abso-frickin'-lutely. So I'm going

01:57:41   to work on it. Well and also like even if a particular project doesn't end up making

01:57:46   money long term or you don't want to stick with it long term, it also leads to other,

01:57:51   like everything you do leads to more things that you do. Yeah. So like even if Casey,

01:57:55   if Casey on Cars doesn't stick, it might lead you into something that does. So it's still

01:58:01   worth placing these bets all over the place and seeing, seeing where you end up. Yeah,

01:58:05   exactly right. And we're saying the same thing. And so the idea is to enjoy the time that

01:58:12   I and the three of us and Mike and the other extracurriculars I have, enjoy the time that

01:58:18   all of us as groups, as a couple of groups of people have afforded me, but also not be

01:58:24   complacent and try to get myself positioned such that I can continue on even if this went

01:58:31   away or analog went away. Or what if advertising just dries up in the podcast world tomorrow?

01:58:38   Is that likely? Of course not. But what if then I'm screwed? Like I need to have some

01:58:42   other plan. The other plan would be we would ask everybody to give us like 10 bucks a month

01:58:46   or five bucks a month. Sure. But you know what I'm driving at, right? You know, I want

01:58:50   to be able to, I want to diversify basically and I don't want to have all my chips in this

01:58:54   basket. And so that's the plan. And candidly, the ideas I have, the Casey on Cars is almost

01:59:02   assuredly not going to work. This app I'm writing is probably not monetizable. And if

01:59:07   I do, it'll be like a tip jar or something. And the only thing that might have legs is

01:59:12   doing something with regard to RX Swift. And that's a stretch. Like it's possible. I think

01:59:17   I can see a future in which that makes money, but it's a stretch. And so I figure I'll try

01:59:21   all three of these. And if I come up with a different idea, I'll try that idea and we'll

01:59:25   just see where it goes. But I don't want to, as much as I can just sit here and you'll

01:59:31   be retired basically. Like I don't want to do that because I'd like, you know, my, my,

01:59:36   my win the lottery goal is I never have a boss in the sense that I mean, you know, I

01:59:41   will never, I don't ever want to have a boss again. And, and if I can make that happen

01:59:46   by using this time wisely, then that's what I want to do. Now, John, you've been quiet.

01:59:52   Tell me, tell me now that it's over. Well, now that I've come to know them, come in.

01:59:55   This is the short version of the analog. That was like, that was like an hour, hour and

01:59:59   a half. So we're, we're less than that so far. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm all on the same page

02:00:03   with everything you said. I think you did a good, a good repeat of analog and not such

02:00:10   a good summary of analog. Sorry. Sorry, dad. Chief repeater and chief repeater. Well, in

02:00:18   my defense, I recorded that before WWDC. Like a lot has happened since then. I couldn't

02:00:23   remember what I did or did not talk about, but that's okay. So yeah, that's, that's,

02:00:27   that's the plan and we'll see how it goes. So a couple of people have been kind enough

02:00:31   to ask and, and I mean that genuinely, it's very, very kind of them to ask, you know,

02:00:35   are you going to do a Patreon or are you going to do, you know, some sort of like membership

02:00:39   to your website sitting here now? No, I don't plan on that. I'm not saying that is my forever

02:00:45   answer, but sitting here now, no. How can you throw money my way if you're so kind as

02:00:51   to do so, which I haven't asked, which is so unbelievably nice of people to say that

02:00:56   for now, just put it aside for me, I guess, or buy, buy yourself some aftershocks, start

02:01:02   a savings account, special Casey savings account that your bank knows about them. Just exactly.

02:01:07   Yeah, I've set it up with every major bank across the world. No, I mean, obviously I'm

02:01:13   kidding, but you know, it's the keep, keep that money, you know, in your head if, if

02:01:17   I ever do come up with like a Patreon or a member full or something like that. But for

02:01:20   now, just if we say something's really good on the podcast, you know, sponsors really

02:01:24   good, you know, just make sure you use our coupon code and if you want to be a, if you

02:01:28   want to be a relay FM member and you want to choose analog as the show you like the

02:01:32   most, I'm okay with that too. So but other than that, we'll see. Yeah, because that's

02:01:36   this too. Like, yeah, like all, like relay has a membership program. We don't. So, and

02:01:40   all of us have shows on relay. So if you want to give us more money individually or as a

02:01:45   whole, you can just go subscribe and become a really member. And that helps us to, why

02:01:48   are you telling people to do relay stuff? Go to our sponsors website, the sponsor on

02:01:52   this podcast that you're listening to now and buy things from them with our code. That's

02:01:56   how you support all of us. That's what I said. And ultimately, you know, if the time comes

02:02:01   when sponsorship no longer makes financial sense for whatever market forces or whatever

02:02:06   reasons. And if the time comes that we ask you, the listeners, to pay us some amount

02:02:11   of money per month, I forget what our calculation was like to match, you know, enough to make

02:02:17   Casey, you know, not go out of business as himself. I think we'd have to have like, was

02:02:24   it five percent of people paying five dollars a month was added or was it was that half?

02:02:28   It was worse than that. You've done the math wrong. It was even more grim. Yeah, it was

02:02:32   like 10 or 15 percent would have to pay five dollars a month. So it's, it's like, it's

02:02:35   enough that it's like, oh, that's, that's rougher and less likely. But if the time comes

02:02:40   when, you know, that we would need to do something like that, you know, apply the money then.

02:02:45   If you haven't given it to all of our sponsors yet. Exactly, exactly. But yeah, but I mean,

02:02:50   and I said this on analog and I will briefly repeat myself, sorry, John, and say it here.

02:02:54   You know, it is an unbelievable privilege to record this show with you guys and to record

02:02:59   analog with Mike. But even more so, it's a tremendous and unbelievable privilege that

02:03:04   I am able to make a tremendous difference on my children's lives, hopefully for the

02:03:08   best by being home with them for this window of time. And it is, and if it would not be

02:03:13   possible, it literally would not be possible were it not for the ears that are hearing

02:03:17   the words I'm saying right now. So to every listener that has ever bought a t-shirt, that

02:03:22   has ever bought anything that the sponsors have ever sold and used our code to any of

02:03:26   you that have ever given us your attention for any amount of time, thank you so very,

02:03:30   very much. And from the bottom of my heart, and I think I speak for the other guys, but

02:03:33   from the bottom of my heart, I deeply, deeply appreciate it because it literally is paying

02:03:39   for my entire existence. And it's because of you guys. So tell your friends about the

02:03:43   show, buy some Casper, some Aftershocks, some Rovers, some Molecules, buy all the things,

02:03:49   and I appreciate it.

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