277: You're Not a Mac App Yet


00:00:00   [Applause]

00:00:04   Hey guys.

00:00:05   [Applause]

00:00:07   There's a lot of people here.

00:00:09   Hi everybody.

00:00:11   How we doing?

00:00:12   Wow.

00:00:13   This is wild.

00:00:14   Oh yeah, we gotta start the show.

00:00:15   [Phone ringing]

00:00:17   Alright, so we have to start with follow up as we always do.

00:00:20   [Laughter]

00:00:22   So, I quit my job.

00:00:24   [Applause]

00:00:34   Anyway, so it's WWDC time.

00:00:37   It is, it is.

00:00:39   I swear we will talk about that, just not tonight.

00:00:41   It's not on that show.

00:00:42   Yeah, yeah.

00:00:43   So anyway.

00:00:44   Yeah, it's DubDub.

00:00:45   No, we're serious.

00:00:46   No, we're done.

00:00:47   So, DubDub, it's now, it's happening.

00:00:51   The keynote was good, I think.

00:00:53   We'll talk about it.

00:00:54   For a boring year, I have, I was gonna do a visual aid, but that's not useful.

00:00:58   Remember, this is a podcast.

00:01:01   So, there was apparently nothing happening this year, yet I have three pages of notes

00:01:07   about nothing, as it turns out.

00:01:10   So.

00:01:10   It turns out nothing, there was a lot of nothings, and a lot of somethings, and yeah, I honestly,

00:01:16   you know, we did our predictions last week, and we talked about what we expected and everything,

00:01:20   and even though there was no new hardware, which is always like the flashy, easy thing

00:01:23   that we all want all the time, which is kind of unreasonable, but you know, we all like

00:01:28   hardware, even though there was no hardware, it was still a really good WWDC, and there

00:01:34   was, there's still a lot of stuff to keep us busy, at least a lot of us busy this summer,

00:01:39   and into the fall.

00:01:39   Do you need help?

00:01:40   [laughter]

00:01:43   I know a guy.

00:01:46   Yeah, my app doesn't seem tested enough.

00:01:49   Yeah, it doesn't have any prescriptions.

00:01:51   Yeah, that's what it is.

00:01:52   But I guess we can try to do this in keynote order, and we'll probably bounce around a

00:01:55   little bit.

00:01:56   Let's do it.

00:01:56   Let's start with that migration video, that was awesome.

00:01:58   Yeah, I'm glad.

00:01:59   So, I was scared, because the internet connection in there, and this is the first world problems,

00:02:04   but the internet connection in there was terrible on my phone, on my laptop, whatever, so I'm

00:02:09   tweeting saying, oh, this was enjoyable, and waiting to just see this wall of tweets about,

00:02:14   oh my god, that was so stupid, I can't believe they did that, this is lame, and I actually

00:02:18   didn't see any of it.

00:02:19   I can give you some of that now, if you want.

00:02:20   [laughter]

00:02:23   I don't think it was stupid, like, it was, so, I kind of knew what the theme of this

00:02:28   video would be, and it's smart, because you've got a bunch of developers in the audience,

00:02:31   and if you want to tell, like, if you include developers in the video, like, we knew some

00:02:35   people in the video, right, people in the audience will feel like they're part of the

00:02:40   experience, it's not pandering so much as like, how could that room full of developers

00:02:44   dislike a video that featured developers?

00:02:46   And it was silly, right, and they, you know, got David Attenborough to the voice and everything.

00:02:49   I try to have a good attitude about it, but I also think if you wanted to, like, game

00:02:54   this and say, what video can we show that the room is guaranteed to like, you show that

00:02:58   video.

00:02:59   So, I do think it was a good video, but I also kind of felt like I was played.

00:03:02   [laughter]

00:03:05   We were all played.

00:03:06   Did anyone hate the video in this room?

00:03:08   No, only you.

00:03:08   One person, one person over there hated the video, but who was not going to like it?

00:03:13   We'll get to the video at the end, too.

00:03:14   It's smart, smart Apple PR, good job.

00:03:16   Yeah.

00:03:18   Well, I really enjoyed it, and in fact, I saw that you had retweeted something I'd

00:03:23   said, and I was very nervous for a fleeting moment that that was like a, how did this

00:03:27   dummy like this video kind of retweet, like one of those retweets are not endorsement

00:03:30   kind of retweets, but then I realized that you liked it as well, which made me happy.

00:03:33   Everybody loved the video, how could you not love it?

00:03:34   How could you not love it?

00:03:35   Yeah, I would say best Apple video in their events in years.

00:03:39   What was the one with the blind gentleman walking through the woods?

00:03:42   I thought that one was really good.

00:03:43   That was excellent, too, but this one I think played to the audience so well that like if

00:03:48   you were that kind of person to enjoy poking fun at ourselves and knowing like the developer

00:03:54   stereotype, this was awesome.

00:03:55   Well, that's my other complaint about it is that it leaned pretty heavily on the, oh,

00:03:58   we're basement dwellers, we're hiding in our houses and don't go outside and the sun

00:04:03   hurts us, which is, you know, it's the stereotype.

00:04:05   We are.

00:04:06   Not everybody, some developers are riding surfboards, making iOS apps, jumping, base

00:04:12   jumping, they're doing all sorts of things.

00:04:14   What developers are those?

00:04:15   Right, sitting in the front row right here, look at him, he's a rock climber.

00:04:17   Anyway, I mean, yeah, it's fine.

00:04:22   No, I thought it was good.

00:04:23   So then we start with iOS because that's the only thing that matters these days, am I right?

00:04:27   And in performance, who clapped for that?

00:04:29   Did I hear somebody clap for that?

00:04:31   Come on.

00:04:33   Have fun doing your iOS development and Xcode for iPad.

00:04:36   Yeah, where's that Xcode for iPad?

00:04:38   Yeah, how's that feel, teach?

00:04:39   Anyway, so we start with performance, which I was very happy to hear that performance

00:04:44   is a real priority, which is great.

00:04:46   And, you know, obviously they said, you know, we, we, iOS 11 goes all the way back to these

00:04:50   2013 era devices or whatever it was.

00:04:52   And you can kind of see where this is going.

00:04:54   And apparently iOS 12 will go to the same set of devices, which I think is great and

00:04:59   impressive and I'll believe it when I see it.

00:05:03   But hopefully the Apple engineers are starting to carry these ancient phones, which I kind

00:05:07   of feel bad for them.

00:05:08   Well, it's not even ancient.

00:05:08   Like I say that jokingly, but it's not even that old.

00:05:11   But anyway, I hope these engineers are carrying these old phones so they can see what the

00:05:14   day-to-day experience is like and really live it.

00:05:16   And I feel like I've heard some rumblings that that's the case, but one way or another,

00:05:21   concentrating on performance helps everybody, even those of us with brand new phones, it

00:05:25   helps us too.

00:05:26   I think also there was some degree of like handling and damage control from the battery

00:05:31   gate thing and from iOS 11 adoption being not that high relative to how long it's been

00:05:37   out compared to previous releases.

00:05:38   The phone throttling is what you're talking about with the battery.

00:05:40   Yeah, the battery throttling.

00:05:42   And like, you know, for years we've had this problem of old phones run new OSes really

00:05:48   slowly and that really hurts Apple and the ecosystem in the long run because it makes

00:05:53   people not want to upgrade their software and makes them less happy with their devices

00:05:56   over time.

00:05:57   So anything they can do to fix that is very important.

00:06:00   And it has seemed like, you know, until fairly recently, it seems like that has not been

00:06:04   enough of a priority.

00:06:06   So for this to be like the very first thing they tell us in this conference, like that's

00:06:12   a pretty good sign.

00:06:12   That's still good as a sign that I didn't have that much else in iOS 12, but it turned

00:06:16   out to be kind of wrong because they did go through a lot of things.

00:06:19   But just to start on that, it's like, oh, so this is the OS that like where we just

00:06:23   make things tighter and faster and remove bugs, which is great.

00:06:25   I think it's a good idea.

00:06:26   But I got that saying also, they did the adoption thing.

00:06:29   It was like first they did the 50% in seven weeks, which is a weird measure.

00:06:34   Like who cares when you get to 50%, right?

00:06:37   And then they did the other one.

00:06:37   It was like 81% year.

00:06:40   And it's not low.

00:06:41   Like it wasn't like 10 in the 90s and 9.

00:06:43   Like it seemed a little bit low.

00:06:45   And I think part of that is the fear of like, oh, I upgraded the OS and then my phone is

00:06:48   slow.

00:06:48   So they're definitely counteracting that.

00:06:50   And regardless of that also being good PR, it's the right thing to do.

00:06:53   So I'm glad they're doing it.

00:06:54   But did they actually talk about bug fixes, though?

00:06:57   Because we just assume, I mean, come on, right?

00:07:00   That's the thing.

00:07:00   Yeah, it was all about performance.

00:07:02   And my favorite thing was at the end of that segment, Craig said, only after mentioning

00:07:08   performance, he said, if this was all be done with iOS 12, we think this would be a great

00:07:12   release.

00:07:12   And the whole room laughed.

00:07:13   The whole room of people that we were watching it with, everyone burst out laughing.

00:07:19   Because it was so-- like it was like, really?

00:07:21   That's-- it kind of was-- that segment was kind of the beginning of, I think, a running

00:07:26   problem throughout this presentation.

00:07:28   Granted, I like the presentation's content overall.

00:07:32   I think I like what we got today.

00:07:33   I like what was announced.

00:07:34   I like what they've been working on.

00:07:36   But the presentation seemed a little messy, and it seemed like it really lacked editing.

00:07:40   And this was one example, like this whole segment, where it really did seem like they

00:07:42   were like padding it.

00:07:44   It seemed like they didn't think they had enough to say.

00:07:45   And so they were just padding everything.

00:07:48   And like, you know, Craig going through, here's all the releases we've done for the last few

00:07:51   years.

00:07:52   That one and that one.

00:07:54   They're just providing context.

00:07:56   I mean, if you want to yell something about padding, I would say the LEGO demo.

00:07:58   There's always something like that.

00:07:59   Oh, yeah.

00:08:00   Yeah, demo padding is always a problem.

00:08:02   But it did seem like there was a lot of like, just like, actual like, intentional time wasting

00:08:08   going on.

00:08:08   I would characterize that as, this is what you do if you're not in a rush.

00:08:13   Like, remember the last one or whatever, when they were in a super big rush, where they

00:08:16   just got to go, go, go?

00:08:17   This is what they would do if they had more time, and they had more time this year.

00:08:20   So then we got AR stuff, and is it USDZ?

00:08:24   That's right.

00:08:25   OK.

00:08:26   Universal scene descriptions.

00:08:26   Yeah, so I don't have anything particular to say about that?

00:08:34   So I didn't really get it during the keynote.

00:08:36   But in the State of the Union, what clarified for me was that, like, this is just like a

00:08:40   file format that the OS will be able to look at and deal with everywhere.

00:08:44   Safari, messages, mail, everything.

00:08:47   So AR in general is a thing that I'm not that excited about, because I haven't really seen

00:08:52   any compelling killer apps for it yet, except measuring things, which Apple just Sherlocked

00:08:58   amazingly.

00:08:58   Whoops.

00:08:59   Yeah.

00:09:00   But I think what finally clicked for me is the idea of, like, I was just doing backpack

00:09:05   shopping, like we all do.

00:09:07   And one of the issues I had was, it was hard to tell from pictures online, like, how big

00:09:16   is that?

00:09:16   And this is the problem I always get when trying to shop for things online.

00:09:19   How big or small something is is often hard to tell scale online.

00:09:23   And it was kind of cool to think, like, what if in a few years, like on product pages of

00:09:28   online stores, in addition to having all the little photo thumbnails and you can make the

00:09:32   photo bigger, what if one of them was a used file and I could just download, I could view

00:09:38   that and see how big that is on a table or next to my existing backpack on the floor in

00:09:45   my room.

00:09:46   The idea of being able to visualize objects, to be able to get an idea of scale, like when

00:09:52   you're just seeing something online, that I think would be a really killer feature of

00:09:55   that.

00:09:56   It might take a while before we're ever at that point where all the retailers have these

00:09:59   things for all their products and everything like that.

00:10:01   But if we get there, that would be really cool.

00:10:03   It's coming soon.

00:10:04   And in a couple of years, it'll be, I mean, we'll get back to that, what is it, the Amazon

00:10:07   show, whatever one that lets you try and close.

00:10:09   Like, you want the backpack on your back.

00:10:11   So ARKit in two years will let you put the backpack on your back and have someone take

00:10:15   a video of you and see how the backpack looks on you.

00:10:17   Same thing with clothes, not just have like, oh, here's a shirt.

00:10:19   This is how big it would be, but like map it onto your body.

00:10:22   We're not there this year, but come back in three years and see if we're not mapping clothes

00:10:26   onto our bodies.

00:10:26   We're already putting Memoji things on our faces.

00:10:29   So hey, that was awesome.

00:10:31   Yeah, that was cool.

00:10:32   We'll get to that.

00:10:32   And so one other thing to mention about ARKit too is you can have shared experiences, which

00:10:36   I can see being pretty neat.

00:10:37   And they did that demo with like, I forget what the name of the game was, but it's like

00:10:40   shot there.

00:10:41   Yeah, well, it's basically like a slingshot thing or whatever.

00:10:43   It doesn't really matter what the name of it was.

00:10:44   And interestingly, after the keynote, when all of the attendees were getting launched,

00:10:48   they actually had a couple of stations where they had tables and iPads, and you could actually

00:10:54   go and play the game.

00:10:55   Now, as with all things, the line was forever long, so I didn't try it, but I saw this happening.

00:10:59   It did look kind of cool.

00:11:00   I could see how that would be neat.

00:11:01   Yeah, if you have a pool table, pool table sized table in your house.

00:11:05   Those tables were huge.

00:11:06   Like the slingshot table was huge.

00:11:07   The Lego table, who has a table that big?

00:11:09   It's like King Arthur's table.

00:11:11   Not only that, but an empty table that big that isn't just like a runway.

00:11:14   Yeah, it's just like a giant and has wood grain on it so the ARKit can pick it up.

00:11:17   I don't know what kind of houses these people have, but there's no clear horizontal surface

00:11:21   that size anywhere in my house, including the floor.

00:11:23   You've got to fight really hard to get your little phone spot right.

00:11:28   That's all I want.

00:11:29   That's all you need.

00:11:30   Then photos.

00:11:32   Photos, there's going to be share back suggestions, which I thought was really cool.

00:11:36   So if you share a series of photos with a friend or whatever and it stands to reason

00:11:42   that that friend will have some photos from the same event, I guess we'll look at like

00:11:45   the geotag data and the timestamp and whatnot and try to figure out based on your own photo

00:11:49   library, do you have things that maybe you should share back?

00:11:52   So if I took pictures of this at some point and I sent them to you guys, then your phone

00:11:57   would automatically say, hey, do you want to give this back to Casey because it seems

00:12:01   like it's relevant?

00:12:02   I think that's super cool.

00:12:03   And that to me is a really great example of Apple doing the things that Apple does best

00:12:08   because it's intelligence that doesn't necessitate going and taking all of your data,

00:12:12   putting it in the cloud and then having it come back.

00:12:15   It's all done on device and there's no reason that shouldn't be possible.

00:12:18   So I thought that was really neat.

00:12:19   So Gmail, if I'm getting this right, Gmail has something like that where even when you're

00:12:23   emailing somebody, it says, do you want to also email Marco and Casey this information?

00:12:26   And I think that's incredibly dangerous because I'm afraid I'm going to accidentally

00:12:29   click and send something somewhere I'm not supposed to.

00:12:31   So I get why people like it, but I worry about UI that suggests actions that I'm not actually

00:12:37   taking that I could accidentally trigger.

00:12:39   I don't know.

00:12:40   But this was an additive thing, right?

00:12:42   What I find is in iOS messages, I get a lot of the same.

00:12:46   I'll want to email maybe-- or not email.

00:12:48   I want to message maybe just you, John.

00:12:50   And then it'll offer Marco as another person.

00:12:53   And I feel like that is so in line with what I'm doing that I either absentmindedly or

00:12:58   slip and tap and--

00:12:59   >> But then when you're saying snarky things about me and you accidentally brush my name,

00:13:03   I'm not going to get the message.

00:13:03   >> Yeah, exactly.

00:13:04   That's the last thing I want.

00:13:05   And so what ends up happening is I have to pay even closer attention.

00:13:09   But this looked like it was more additive where it was a different piece of UI, not

00:13:13   exactly where you were already operating, if that makes sense.

00:13:16   So I echo what you're saying, but I think in this case it'll be OK.

00:13:19   That was the only thing about photos that I was really jazzed by.

00:13:24   I hear there's a really good e-book about the Photos app that you should check out sometime.

00:13:28   And if you ever wanted to know anything about photos, look up Jason Snell.

00:13:32   That guy knows a couple things.

00:13:33   But was there anything else useful about photos?

00:13:37   >> I think a lot of people were pointing out that Google Photos has done a lot of this

00:13:41   stuff either this year or last year.

00:13:43   And that's true.

00:13:44   But a lot of us don't use Google Photos or don't want to use Google Photos.

00:13:47   And so it's nice to have that option here.

00:13:49   The only thing that I was a little disappointed by is that they didn't seem to mention, which

00:13:53   means we probably haven't gotten, syncing of the image recognition data between your devices.

00:13:58   >> Yeah, I was thinking about that.

00:13:59   Didn't that come last year?

00:14:00   >> No, last year they would sync the corrections you make.

00:14:04   >> The ones you confirmed.

00:14:05   That was all they were syncing.

00:14:06   >> Like any data you entered, they would sync that.

00:14:09   But they wouldn't sync the baseline recognition.

00:14:10   So every time you get a new device, you still have to wait for it to bring your battery

00:14:13   all day while doing all the recognition.

00:14:15   So that part, I really hope that we do get that at some point.

00:14:18   It should have already been there.

00:14:19   But oh well, it seems like we're not getting that.

00:14:21   But otherwise, it's a solid feature release, I think.

00:14:24   Doesn't blow me away.

00:14:26   But otherwise, pretty good.

00:14:27   We are sponsored this week by Microsoft.

00:14:32   Microsoft is right here in San Jose this week to support all of you iOS developers and all

00:14:38   of our favorite podcasts.

00:14:40   They are actually right here at AltConf again.

00:14:42   And they're also sponsoring this show, the talk show live tomorrow, and Relay FM's Connected

00:14:48   Live on Wednesday.

00:14:49   Microsoft, they're cool.

00:14:50   I mean, they sponsor a whole community.

00:14:52   And I really appreciate that.

00:14:53   So anyway, they believe any developer should be able to build, deploy, and scale your apps

00:14:58   without having to worry about managing services or underlying infrastructure.

00:15:02   So whether you are an Objective C or Swift developer, Azure has what you need to ship

00:15:07   your apps faster and with more confidence.

00:15:09   There's all kinds of stuff that you can do with Azure.

00:15:11   So for example, you can build in the cloud.

00:15:13   You can test on real devices.

00:15:15   You can automatically distribute to beta testers and the App Store and monitor your apps with

00:15:20   real-time crash reports and analytics.

00:15:22   You can even add things like pre-built AI services into your apps to make them more

00:15:25   intelligent.

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00:15:50   So very special thanks to Microsoft for sponsoring our live show and really our entire community

00:15:55   of developers and podcast fans for years.

00:15:58   Thank you very much to Microsoft for sponsoring our show.

00:16:00   [applause]

00:16:05   So imagine you're me and you're sitting in the keynote and you're sitting next to Federico.

00:16:11   [laughter]

00:16:13   And then we start hearing about Siri shortcuts.

00:16:15   And we see this icon that just looks like it may relate to some app that Federico has

00:16:23   used from time to time and maybe has evangelized a teeny bit.

00:16:27   And suddenly it becomes clear to Federico that we are looking at workflow but better.

00:16:34   [laughter]

00:16:36   His eyes were saucers, you guys.

00:16:38   It was magical to be next to it.

00:16:41   So we have Siri shortcuts which is basically workflow but, well not first party, but first

00:16:47   party and system integrated which looks amazing.

00:16:52   I am super excited about this.

00:16:53   And fully integrated with Siri too because a pretty massive upgrade.

00:16:57   And we'll talk about the Siri shortcuts thing more generally but the shortcuts app, so there's

00:17:03   the API of making these shortcuts for the app.

00:17:06   Then there's the shortcuts app that users can use which that's basically workflow.

00:17:11   And it answers the question of why did Apple buy workflow?

00:17:16   What has that team been doing?

00:17:18   And the unfortunate answer to those things is like, well they got absorbed and they did

00:17:22   something boring.

00:17:23   In this case, this was a good answer.

00:17:24   >> Yeah, absolutely.

00:17:25   >> This was, they kept doing awesome things with workflow and now it's part of the system

00:17:30   in a really great seeming way.

00:17:31   I haven't actually tried it yet but it looks awesome and I think this is going to be great.

00:17:34   >> I'm confused by Siri shortcuts thing because I can't tell how powerful it is

00:17:41   or isn't.

00:17:42   Like the demos, I still don't quite understand it.

00:17:44   I kept thinking of your use case because it's the one we talk about on the show so much.

00:17:46   Like you can have these little save series shortcut things in your app camped out so

00:17:52   that you can make a shortcut to that location to perform an action.

00:17:55   But does that mean if I wanted to tell Siri to play an episode of a podcast, I'd have

00:18:00   to start an overcast and hit a button there and go into it?

00:18:03   I'm very confused by it.

00:18:04   >> I don't think so.

00:18:05   The API basically looks like, I haven't played with this yet, but it looks like I as the

00:18:09   app developer can tell the system what you're doing at any point and I can also, like in

00:18:13   like a UI or NS activity, NS user activity, there we go, user activity, and the system

00:18:19   can index those and then I as the app developer can expose a vocabulary to the system.

00:18:24   So I could maybe do things like expose a vocabulary of all of your playlists and subscribe podcast

00:18:31   names with like the word play in front of them.

00:18:33   So I could have you be able to tell Siri play ATP and well, that was actually the title

00:18:38   of our show, if that would work.

00:18:39   >> You could have the vocabulary.

00:18:41   >> I'll have to hard code that exception.

00:18:42   >> Sorry.

00:18:43   >> Otherwise, play accidental tech podcast and then it should then be able to launch

00:18:48   my app with that as the trigger.

00:18:50   So that actually, you know, last week I was kind of asking for some kind of like generic

00:18:54   like action verb object kind of system.

00:18:57   I think this gets us a lot of the way there.

00:18:59   This is, if this works the way I hope and think it does, this is a huge upgrade for

00:19:06   Siri kit and for the usability of apps with Siri and in lots of ways that interact with

00:19:11   like the Siri watch face and the suggestion of the lock screen and stuff like that.

00:19:16   I think this to me is the most exciting feature they announced today.

00:19:20   >> When they did that thing where it's like, you know, I'm heading home or whatever and

00:19:24   they did like a series of 20 steps of like setting up the home kit thing and turning

00:19:28   on music and doing all that stuff, that seems cool to me and I fear for the automated, the

00:19:34   people who are into automation so much because this may be like a honey pot for them and

00:19:38   they will just find themselves setting up these crazy automations that, but I also started

00:19:42   thinking like a Rube Goldberg machine and then once you initiate this action, the boot

00:19:46   knocks over the fish bowl and the cat chases the fish and the egg and like it's this series

00:19:50   of things happen that you don't have any way to like pause or revoke certain sections of

00:19:55   it or stop and it's just all going to happen and so I fear that you make some kind of shortcut

00:19:59   that does 27 steps and accidentally initiate it and your whole house goes crazy, but this

00:20:04   is version one. I think if you use cautiously and if it works the way you describe, I think

00:20:09   it will provide a lot of extra functionality, but we'll see what the real enthusiasts,

00:20:13   let's say, do with it.

00:20:14   >> I mean that's the best thing is like this is exactly the kind of thing that nerds both

00:20:18   love and probably shouldn't have because we're going to like, you know, like somebody's

00:20:24   going to come over to our house and be like, check this out.

00:20:27   >> Go to Def Con 3.

00:20:31   >> The thing I want to know about it though and this is the one disadvantage of doing

00:20:34   the show on the very first day is that it seemed like to your point, it was just NS

00:20:38   user activity, but it didn't seem like there was too much extra specifically for Siri involved

00:20:44   and I don't know, I haven't had a chance to look at the API so I might be getting this

00:20:47   dead wrong, but it was in the state of the union I believe that they said, hey look,

00:20:52   one line of code where you just flip a Boolean is true and you will be opted into Siri, leave

00:20:57   it, looking at the things that your users do and the way I read it was that it would

00:21:02   look at, you know, oh I play ATP all the time, right?

00:21:06   Anyway, I play ATP all the time.

00:21:07   >> Well you play accidental tech podcast all the time.

00:21:09   >> You get my point or maybe in some other app, you know, I do the same operation over

00:21:14   and over and over again and then it would see that this operation that has been opted

00:21:19   into this, you know, Siri shortcuts thing is something that you do a lot at the same

00:21:23   time every day.

00:21:24   >> And it would suggest it with the proactive, or is it proactive or whatever.

00:21:27   >> Yeah, I think they call it just Siri suggestions now, but it was what we were going to call

00:21:31   it proactive.

00:21:32   So there is another API, they said you can opt into that, but then there's also the new

00:21:34   Siri intense, an expansion of that API.

00:21:37   So this is one of those questions we'll have to actually answer next week, but it does

00:21:41   look like it's a pretty good looking system.

00:21:43   I really am very excited.

00:21:44   >> Underscore, underscore, do you implement this already?

00:21:46   Tell us how it works.

00:21:49   >> He's over there, he's over there.

00:21:51   >> Not yet, not yet, okay.

00:21:52   >> Wait an hour or two, at the end of the show he'll have like three apps that use the

00:21:55   system already.

00:21:56   >> Yeah, by next week I expect it in the app store, no not really.

00:22:00   So then we talked a little bit about apps, which by and large I didn't get that much

00:22:05   that really revved my engine, except they are letting third party mapping applications

00:22:11   use CarPlay, which as a person who has a CarPlay car, that is magical.

00:22:18   And this is one of those times that like the curmudgeon Casey thinks, oh Apple would never

00:22:24   allow that because oh it's Apple Maps or nothing, you know Apple Maps is perfect if you live

00:22:28   in the Bay Area, why wouldn't you want Apple Maps?

00:22:31   But in reality...

00:22:32   >> That's how they talk.

00:22:33   >> Yeah, that's exactly how they talk.

00:22:35   And you just got to throw in a groovy here and there, that's how California works, right?

00:22:38   >> You should put an avocado on it.

00:22:40   >> Yeah, put an avocado on it.

00:22:41   >> This is called not pandering to the crowd.

00:22:43   >> This is the opposite of pandering to the crowd.

00:22:44   >> Most of them probably aren't from here.

00:22:46   >> But anyway, but having used CarPlay a fair bit in Aaron's car, I actually really, really

00:22:52   like it and I've been surprised at how much I like it, but it is infuriating if we ever

00:22:58   try to use it for anything that's more than a very short trip, that we can't use Waze

00:23:02   or Google Maps or something like that because especially Waze carries advantages that I

00:23:06   think no other mapping application really does.

00:23:09   And having Apple allow third party apps, third party mapping apps onto CarPlay I think is

00:23:15   a, an unbelievable improvement and will dramatically change the usefulness of that entire feature

00:23:21   in my mind.

00:23:22   >> I agree.

00:23:23   It's one of those things, like it seems like every year we get one or two things that we

00:23:25   thought Apple would never do.

00:23:27   >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:28   >> And this was one of those things, like I never expected them to open up the like display

00:23:32   of CarPlay to other navigation apps.

00:23:34   That seemed totally out of the question and they did it and got to give them credit for

00:23:38   that.

00:23:39   It's going to be awesome.

00:23:40   >> Yeah, I'm really stoked about that.

00:23:41   They talked about a lot with do not disturb and associated technologies which seemed really

00:23:45   good and I was really excited about it until they started showing you graphs about how

00:23:50   addicted you are to your phone.

00:23:52   And this is something I don't want to know because I'm going to be really embarrassed

00:23:58   and upset about how much I use my phone and Aaron is going to be so unbelievably vindicated

00:24:03   it is not even funny.

00:24:04   So this is, this is going to be a tough fall around the list household I am quite certain.

00:24:08   But as much as I joke, I think the features are really great and it seemed like they were

00:24:12   very well thought out.

00:24:13   They're showing you useful data in what appeared to be useful ways and again I joke but I do

00:24:19   think I have an unhealthy relationship with my phone and I do want to get better about

00:24:23   putting my phone away and not paying attention to it when I really shouldn't be.

00:24:26   And I think that in a lot of ways this is going to be a really great help for people

00:24:31   like me who recognize that I got problems but I hope that this will enable me to solve

00:24:36   them and things like having, what do they call like an app timeout or an app limit,

00:24:40   I forget what the term was.

00:24:41   >> Yeah, there was a, they call it app limits.

00:24:44   >> Okay, so I can only use Twitter for like an hour a day or whatever the case may be.

00:24:48   I think that.

00:24:49   >> Even that's too long.

00:24:50   >> Yeah, it is but that's like one twenty-fourth of how much time I spend on Twitter in a day

00:24:54   but, but be that as it may, I think that this is, I think it's going to be a really great

00:24:59   feature and I hope that, that when it comes out I pay attention to it and I stick with

00:25:04   it.

00:25:05   >> Yeah, self-imposed, self-imposed security state sounds great but I can imagine kids

00:25:08   watching this video and going oh no.

00:25:11   Because what kind of kid wants this kind of graph and limits like if they make that easy

00:25:15   as it appears to be to be able to apply those limits or even to just get a readout on them,

00:25:19   kids are going to hate this.

00:25:20   Yep, my kids are going to hate this.

00:25:22   Not that I know, I already know what it is like, it's like ninety-nine percent YouTube

00:25:25   but maybe I'll be surprised, maybe they use the calculator sometimes, I don't know.

00:25:31   >> Yeah, no like the whole angle of this too of like of working it in not only as like

00:25:34   a self-productivity slash time management tool but also working in two parental controls

00:25:40   and to have parents able to like set limits and everything.

00:25:43   This is an area of features that especially Amazon did pretty well with with their tablets

00:25:47   for a while and Apple was kind of getting rich over the coals for not doing the same

00:25:50   thing.

00:25:51   Well they did it now and it looks pretty awesome, it looks pretty full featured so you know

00:25:54   it's another example of Apple kind of coming late to something but then doing a really

00:25:57   good job of it it seems.

00:25:58   So I hope it works out and it looks like a pretty rich feature set so it looks pretty

00:26:03   good.

00:26:04   >> And Google just beat them, we talked about the digital well-being thing that Google did

00:26:07   and this is the case where it's like they got to do it and say it all first and Apple

00:26:10   had to come after and say we're also doing that.

00:26:13   Apple's take was a little bit different but you know it's still configuring your devices

00:26:16   to stop you from using them which apparently is very popular so Apple's smart to do it.

00:26:20   >> It was also nice to have Apple's focus more on apps and like how you spend your time

00:26:24   on your phone not necessarily like you should spend less time on this device that we make

00:26:28   all of our money from but you should maybe know how you're spending that time.

00:26:33   >> They did have a how often you pick up your phone like regardless of what app you use

00:26:36   how many times do you sleep and wake your phone like how much are you taking your phone

00:26:39   out of your pocket and I feel like that was sort of the overall thing.

00:26:42   It's not just about the apps it's about don't be on your phone.

00:26:45   >> Yeah, I thought it was really good.

00:26:46   Another thing that was related to that I think or around the same time in the keynote was

00:26:50   we started talking about notifications and one thing that we've all been asking for and

00:26:54   they kind of just flashed on screen and then didn't really make much of it but I really

00:26:58   am interested in is I think they called it tuning notifications.

00:27:01   >> Instant tuning.

00:27:02   >> There you go.

00:27:03   So I don't want to see these notifications anymore and right in the context of the notification

00:27:08   itself you can just bloop bloop and say don't ever bother me about this again or I don't

00:27:12   I didn't get a good look at what the options were.

00:27:14   >> One was like don't make noises for this thing and one was don't show this and honestly

00:27:18   I'm surprised it took them so long to do this feature because how many of us you see a notification

00:27:22   but you can't you're like oh I have to go into settings and find where that app is and

00:27:25   scroll scroll scroll and find it and turn off notifications.

00:27:28   Right there is when you want to take action against it although they did say press into

00:27:32   does that mean it's like force press?

00:27:34   >> I wrote that down.

00:27:35   So Craig said a couple of times he said press in instead of saying 3D touch maybe they finally

00:27:40   figured out 3D touch is a terrible name.

00:27:42   >> But if it's 3D touch like nobody's going to know that feature exists.

00:27:45   >> That's true.

00:27:46   >> So that like you're going to have to tell everyone in your family if you see a notification

00:27:49   you don't like press really hard on your phone screen not that hard just a little bit and

00:27:53   then dismiss that thing and they'll be like oh that's great and then the next question

00:27:57   will be why does Apple do that?

00:27:58   Why do you have to press hard?

00:27:59   I don't know.

00:28:01   >> Because reasons.

00:28:02   >> There's no room for a button there's no room for anything I don't know.

00:28:05   >> It looks really good though and that's one of those things that I only got a glance during

00:28:09   the keynote but I'm really looking forward to seeing more about that and I think it's

00:28:14   not that clever inherently but I think it's well done and it's the right way to handle

00:28:19   that problem.

00:28:20   Additionally they're grouping notifications now because as I've gotten slightly better

00:28:25   about not using my phone constantly I will occasionally come back to my phone to 3,000

00:28:31   notifications and I actually have tuned a lot of my notifications already to go away

00:28:34   and I'll still have what feels like well.

00:28:36   >> Sounds like you have.

00:28:37   >> But I guess I got a long way to go but I will still come back to just a mountain

00:28:41   of notifications and it's just where do I go from here?

00:28:44   This is not helpful or useful.

00:28:46   How do I even know what's the most important thing on this list?

00:28:49   >> If they group by app does that help you?

00:28:51   >> Potentially because at least I can scan and see okay which of these apps is the most

00:28:55   important which I will inevitably conclude Twitter but it really is probably iMessage

00:28:59   or something like that.

00:29:01   But nevertheless I think that was really good and there was something else like deliver

00:29:07   quietly I thought was really cool.

00:29:09   I think John you mentioned that a second ago.

00:29:10   >> Yeah that's the thing where it would go straight to notification center and not show

00:29:12   up as like a loud alerted thing.

00:29:14   >> They're shuffling a lot of the deck chairs in this Titanic but it's like the thing where

00:29:19   I don't want to, my phone wakes me up in the middle of the night and I want to see all

00:29:22   the notifications around.

00:29:25   So hide them all until the morning.

00:29:28   They're still there.

00:29:29   They're still going to be there.

00:29:30   Oh we have a button when you want to see them.

00:29:31   I guess like I don't know if this is appealing to people but like the notifications are still

00:29:37   going to be there in the morning.

00:29:38   I don't want to be bombarded with them in the morning.

00:29:40   I don't know.

00:29:41   I don't have a good read on people's relationships with their phones.

00:29:45   >> You could compare it a lot to RSS readers where you know people a lot of times people

00:29:49   go through this cycle with RSS readers where they would start using an RSS reader, they

00:29:53   start cleaning because it was too overwhelming before.

00:29:55   They start cleaning and they would subscribe to like 50 high traffic feeds and then two

00:29:59   days later they would have 10,000 unread items and they would say RSS readers are too hard

00:30:04   to manage.

00:30:05   I'm overwhelmed.

00:30:06   The actual solution to that is use some self control with the feeds you subscribe to but

00:30:11   that didn't actually like that wasn't a good enough solution for a lot of people.

00:30:14   A lot of people are like but I want all of this sometimes but not other times and you

00:30:19   app magically figure it out.

00:30:21   So notifications I think are a similar thing where people want a lot of notifications.

00:30:25   Most people are not like me.

00:30:26   Most people don't cut them down to the bone.

00:30:28   Most people get too many notifications but what they want to do about that is not to

00:30:33   turn off an entire app's notifications.

00:30:35   What they want is for there to somehow be a more manageable setup to this.

00:30:40   And so you know I have a hard time understanding that because that's not how I use my phone

00:30:43   the same way I never had a problem with RSS reader overload but that's not everybody.

00:30:47   Most people have this problem with notification overload and don't deal with it like the quote

00:30:53   correct way so the system has to accommodate that.

00:30:55   Accommodate the way people actually use their phones.

00:30:57   >> This has made a new form of anxiety though.

00:30:59   Now when you wake up in the middle of the night and look at your phone and you don't

00:31:02   see any notifications you're wondering I wonder how many notifications are hidden.

00:31:06   That I just got a text from my mother saying somebody died.

00:31:09   What's going on?

00:31:10   >> That's something you worry about every single night.

00:31:12   >> I don't worry about it all.

00:31:13   I'm saying if you're waking up and you're like oh I see these notifications I now have

00:31:17   to sit up and text people at 2 a.m.

00:31:19   Aren't you also wondering what you're not seeing?

00:31:21   I don't know.

00:31:22   I obviously don't know who's using their phones.

00:31:23   >> I think for me so having an infant at home there are times when I'll pick up my phone

00:31:27   at like 3 in the morning and just want to know what time it is.

00:31:31   And inevitably because I have no self-control I'll see oh Mike has already been up for three

00:31:37   hours and he sent me like 13 messages about something important and so I might as well

00:31:41   answer them.

00:31:42   And so then the next thing I know it's like 5 in the morning and I've been up for two

00:31:45   hours and I blame it on Mike but really the reality of the situation is it's all my fault.

00:31:49   >> But imagine that you had like a baby monitor notification too.

00:31:52   Like you'd want those to go through.

00:31:53   I think we still need more flexibility.

00:31:55   Just grouping by app it's an improvement.

00:31:56   It's a step in the right direction but I think there's still a lot more that can be done in

00:31:59   terms of prioritizing notifications and setting up rules and help set up a workflow or whatever.

00:32:03   We didn't even get that.

00:32:04   >> It's called a shortcut, John.

00:32:06   There was also do not disturb enhancements.

00:32:09   It didn't seem like there was a lot of enhancement to it but there was some.

00:32:12   And some you know for such an incredibly basic system that we had before some enhancement

00:32:18   is nice.

00:32:19   >> And they were clever.

00:32:20   >> Yeah like it was like you know it would read your calendar and so one of the options

00:32:23   you would get when you turn it on is do not disturb until the end of this calendar event

00:32:27   or until this evening or for one hour or for like if you leave a geofence area.

00:32:34   Those are all clever things.

00:32:35   I wish the system was still a little bit more under your control and a little more powerful

00:32:38   but those are all welcome.

00:32:40   Like it's better than nothing.

00:32:41   >> Yeah I thought it was really good.

00:32:42   And there were clever examples like I think they said in the keynote you know snooze until

00:32:46   you leave or do not disturb until you leave the movie theater which I thought was a great

00:32:50   example because presumably you don't want to be that person who's getting all sorts

00:32:54   of messages and whatnot in the midst of a movie.

00:32:57   And the phone should be intelligent enough to know you're at a friggin movie theater

00:33:01   so when you leave the movie theater that might be an appropriate time to start letting you

00:33:05   see these notifications.

00:33:06   >> I feel like this is kind of like self-driving cars where we're in this uncomfortable weird

00:33:09   middle period where it can't do everything for you.

00:33:12   Like it can't, people don't have the expectation that I will just have my phone, I won't touch

00:33:17   it and when I wander into a movie theater it will go to do not disturb, it will silence

00:33:20   itself and when I leave it will turn back on and it will hide things you know it will

00:33:23   do everything for me because it knows.

00:33:24   We're not there.

00:33:25   People don't expect that.

00:33:26   We have these features that are close to that that will suggest if you use this feature

00:33:30   it makes it easy to do that but you still have to initiate it so I wonder how long it

00:33:34   will be before our phones get smart enough to be like you said where they do all that

00:33:36   stuff for you but right now we're like, we always have to nudge it like do the thing.

00:33:41   I'm in the movie, do the movie thing.

00:33:42   Maybe I can set up a shortcut there, I'm leaving the movie.

00:33:45   Like there's these different points where the phone is asking you to do something.

00:33:48   It won't do it unprompted but it wants you to like sort of lead it by the nose but the

00:33:53   things it will do are more sophisticated.

00:33:55   The other thing about this that I thought was that it was another instance of force

00:33:57   press too or 3D touch whatever.

00:34:00   Push in.

00:34:01   Push in.

00:34:02   We're not pushing, pushing is aggressive.

00:34:03   Pressing is nice.

00:34:04   Are you sure?

00:34:05   Can I press you Marco?

00:34:07   Nope.

00:34:08   But anyway, but that's another example of where I think it's semi-undiscoverable and

00:34:12   I'm a little worried about that but all in all I am two thumbs up on these improvements

00:34:16   and I think they looked really good.

00:34:19   We are sponsored this week by Aftershokz and the weightless wireless Trex Air bone conduction

00:34:24   headphones.

00:34:25   I have these right here in my hand.

00:34:26   You can see how incredibly tiny these are.

00:34:28   They weigh nothing here.

00:34:29   Are those heavy?

00:34:30   Nobody can see them Marco.

00:34:31   It's a podcast.

00:34:32   It is a podcast but just…

00:34:33   900 people can see them.

00:34:35   But they are super tiny.

00:34:36   I have a pair as well and they are great.

00:34:39   They're super great to run with especially to listen to podcasts.

00:34:41   Maybe even pair them with your Apple watch which we'll talk about later.

00:34:43   Yes we will.

00:34:44   So yeah, so the Aftershokz bone conduction headphones, these things are great.

00:34:48   So the way these work is they basically sit on your, here you can actually…

00:34:52   I will model ladies and gentlemen.

00:34:55   So these actually sit in front of your ear rather than in your ear.

00:35:00   And so what this means is, man you look good in those.

00:35:03   Thank you.

00:35:04   Should I just leave them on for the rest of the show?

00:35:05   Yeah, it's a good look.

00:35:06   So what this means basically is there's nothing blocking your ears.

00:35:09   So you don't get all sweaty in the summertime or when you're exercising and also you can

00:35:14   hear the world around you while you also hear the podcast or the phone call that you're

00:35:20   listening to inside the Trex Air.

00:35:22   And so it ends up being really useful for situations like if you're running outside

00:35:26   or if you're doing stuff around the house where you also want to hear what's going

00:35:30   on in the world around you.

00:35:31   You need to hear ambient noise.

00:35:32   If you're outside you want to hear like if there's a car coming or something like

00:35:35   that or if you're in your house you want to hear if someone knocks on the door or something

00:35:37   like that.

00:35:38   So the Aftershokz are wonderful for that.

00:35:41   And it's just, they're so small and so lightweight you barely even feel them.

00:35:45   This is less, this is 1.06 ounces for this.

00:35:49   And everything else about it is great too.

00:35:51   The battery life is great, the Bluetooth reception is great, of course it's wireless.

00:35:54   The Bluetooth reception is great.

00:35:55   They have a two year warranty.

00:35:57   It's everything you want out of a Bluetooth headphone, especially great for talk content.

00:36:01   That's what I really use mine for.

00:36:02   They're a little small for music but for talk content they are awesome because you

00:36:05   can just hear everything around you as you're doing what you need to do.

00:36:09   And it's just so nice in the summertime as I said they don't make you sweaty.

00:36:12   They are waterproof so you don't have to worry if you're sweating all over them or

00:36:15   if you're working out or if you get caught in the rain or anything like that.

00:36:17   They're just wonderful.

00:36:18   So you can check out the Aftershokz new weightless wireless Trekz Air bone conduction headphones.

00:36:24   They retail for $180 and you can snag a pair for $30 off by visiting ATP.Aftershokz, that's

00:36:31   with a Z, .com and using code ATP30.

00:36:36   That's once again ATP.Aftershokz.com and code ATP30 to save $30 off the weightless wireless

00:36:43   Trekz Air bone conduction headphones.

00:36:45   Thank you so much to Aftershokz for letting me hear my podcast all summer long as I walk

00:36:50   outside and I can hear everything around me and I don't get all sweaty and also for supporting

00:36:54   this show.

00:36:56   [Applause]

00:36:58   Alright, so we're almost through iOS.

00:37:03   We have to talk communication.

00:37:04   I am happy to report that your tongue now exists for your etymology which is extremely

00:37:09   good news.

00:37:10   I'm very excited about this.

00:37:11   I love the deadpan delivery that Federighi did with this feature and whatever the next

00:37:15   one was, the Memoji I believe.

00:37:18   His deadpan of like, we have a new feature, tongue detection.

00:37:23   You can now detect your tongue.

00:37:25   Does anyone know if it's levels or is it binary tongue out or tongue in?

00:37:28   This is what I need to know.

00:37:29   I thought it was, I thought it was, I believe it was analog you could say.

00:37:35   But no, I am actually.

00:37:37   They're computers.

00:37:38   Yeah, fine, fine.

00:37:39   But no, all kidding aside, I think that looks good and certainly you know the handful of

00:37:43   times that like Declan has played with my phone and with Animoji, he tries to stick

00:37:46   his tongue out and he's confused why it doesn't work.

00:37:49   And I think it adds a little bit to it.

00:37:52   They added a few new animals.

00:37:53   Let me see if I can read my own chicken scratch.

00:37:55   The ghost, the koala, the tiger and the T-Rex which was good.

00:37:59   And they did Memoji which was one of those moments where I was conflicted and trying

00:38:03   to figure out do I hate this or do I think this is amazing?

00:38:08   And the conclusion I came to is this is probably going to be amazing.

00:38:12   And the reason I.

00:38:13   Go ahead, go ahead.

00:38:18   The reason, the reason Captain Kromerajian why I think this is going to be good is because

00:38:23   they seem super configurable.

00:38:25   Now let me tell you if you happen to be friends with John Siracusa and create yourself a me

00:38:29   on a Nintendo platform, you better bring your A game or you will for years hear about how

00:38:35   your me looks nothing like you.

00:38:36   Because people make the me of the person they want to be.

00:38:39   So it doesn't look like them like you know everyone goes to the thing and it's like their

00:38:44   hair is a different, it's like darker than it usually is and they go with like the weight

00:38:48   slider and they make themselves how they used to be 20 years ago.

00:38:52   And their face has some characteristic about it but they don't put that characteristic

00:38:56   in because they always hated their chin so they make a really tiny chin.

00:38:58   It doesn't look like them.

00:38:59   It looks like just a random person.

00:39:01   I think if someone comes over to your house and sees your little me's lined up they should

00:39:04   be able to say who everybody is in the family.

00:39:06   They shouldn't say generic male boy, generic female woman.

00:39:10   I'm going to go home and update my Nintendo me to have a giant head of hair.

00:39:13   Didn't I make you one Casey?

00:39:14   Didn't I make you one?

00:39:15   No you never made me one.

00:39:16   We need to fix this.

00:39:17   I think me's irrelevant though.

00:39:18   It was the Nintendo that did this first with the Wii.

00:39:20   You can make little avatars of yourself and it was actually fairly limited configurability

00:39:24   but people got creative with it.

00:39:26   And then Xbox did it.

00:39:28   Microsoft did it.

00:39:29   What do they call them on Xbox?

00:39:30   I don't even remember.

00:39:31   Avatars.

00:39:32   And the Xbox ones were less cartoony than the Nintendo ones.

00:39:36   Like they looked more like these Memoji and that's where I think we're in this weird kind

00:39:39   of uncanny valley where they start to look like Pixar people from Toy Story but they

00:39:43   didn't quite know how to do people yet.

00:39:46   A little bit like, you know how dolls are scary?

00:39:49   Right?

00:39:50   Like it's kind of scary doll people.

00:39:51   The me's were so clearly cartoony and so simplified.

00:39:55   When you start making them look more photorealistic, especially when you put them on the head of

00:39:58   people it's kind of like that horse head mask.

00:40:03   I'm a little bit creeped out by it.

00:40:05   But I don't like them to be that photorealistic.

00:40:07   I wish they were more like the ones on Nintendo platforms and less like the Xbox ones.

00:40:12   And I wonder how many people are going to make one for themselves.

00:40:15   Because honestly, anybody in your life, if they made one of these and they tried to video

00:40:18   conference you with a thing on them, wouldn't the first thing you say was get that stupid

00:40:21   thing off your head.

00:40:22   Like you don't want to see, it's not cute.

00:40:24   I don't know.

00:40:25   First of all I think it is cute.

00:40:26   But I think they struck a pretty good balance of cartoony but also being expressive, like

00:40:32   having a wide range of expression.

00:40:34   And it kind of fits the style of their emoji.

00:40:37   So you basically can make your own emoji face in Apple's style.

00:40:41   I agree with that.

00:40:42   But Tim Cook's face is long.

00:40:44   And so when Tim Cook was there you could tell they wanted it to be him because of the glasses

00:40:47   and the gray hair.

00:40:48   But it didn't look like Tim Cook because Tim Cook's face is long.

00:40:50   But it was like a round little emoji head.

00:40:52   So it looked like Tim Cook wearing like a scary doll head.

00:40:56   I think part of that was like, you can't sleep finally.

00:41:02   Their system was so...

00:41:04   They don't even get the references in person.

00:41:05   I didn't even hear you.

00:41:06   I didn't even hear you.

00:41:07   It's alright.

00:41:08   Anyway, I feel like the Memoji system looked so impressive at how expressive it could be

00:41:13   that you could even see how uncomfortable Tim was.

00:41:16   You could see him like really forcing...

00:41:17   He was a little bit of sweat on the side of his forehead.

00:41:19   Yeah, really forcing that smile.

00:41:21   You could just tell like, I can't wait for this to be over.

00:41:23   You can just tell like that is not Tim Cook's game at all.

00:41:25   Do you think he uses that a lot at work?

00:41:27   No.

00:41:28   I think he does.

00:41:29   The struggle I have with this is, sitting here now, truly, I'm really enthusiastic about

00:41:33   this.

00:41:34   I think this could be really fun.

00:41:35   But I think that I have two problems.

00:41:37   Number one, I'll never be able to use this with Jon because he'll criticize my Memoji.

00:41:41   You don't FaceTime me anyway.

00:41:42   That's true.

00:41:43   You don't FaceTime me anyway.

00:41:44   Would you like me to?

00:41:45   No.

00:41:46   We can start doing this podcast with group FaceTime, which is now a thing.

00:41:48   Hey!

00:41:49   Yeah, that's true.

00:41:50   Well, hold on.

00:41:51   Give me a second here.

00:41:52   We can make a YouTube version.

00:41:53   This is all three of our Memojis.

00:41:54   Oh my God, let's do it.

00:41:55   Let's do it.

00:41:56   You heard it here first.

00:41:57   You heard it here first.

00:41:58   We finally figured out how to use YouTube.

00:42:02   We finally cracked YouTube, you guys.

00:42:03   It just happened.

00:42:04   I'm sure no one else will have this idea.

00:42:06   No, not a single person.

00:42:08   But sitting here now, I'm really enthusiastic about it.

00:42:10   I think it could be really fun.

00:42:11   Especially, all kidding aside, if I can dial in my Memoji in a way that looks representative

00:42:15   of me, I think it could be really fun.

00:42:17   But that being said, I thought Animojis were going to be really fun, and I used them for

00:42:20   a week and never looked back.

00:42:21   So I'm not convinced that this is really going to move the needle on Animoji use.

00:42:25   But sitting here now, I am enthusiastic about it.

00:42:28   And it does look like it could be a lot of fun.

00:42:30   All right, so group FaceTime.

00:42:33   That is something that I think we all kind of expected to be around now.

00:42:36   >> Yeah, it's called Apple Hangouts, right?

00:42:38   >> Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

00:42:40   Actually, it's Apple Meat now, isn't it?

00:42:43   Something like that.

00:42:44   That sounds really weird.

00:42:45   Anyway, but there's group FaceTime.

00:42:48   There's group FaceTime now.

00:42:50   And everyone sitting around me was like, okay, yeah, that's cool.

00:42:52   It'll be like three or four people.

00:42:53   That's great.

00:42:54   Thirty-two people?

00:42:55   How is that manageable?

00:42:57   That's great, I'm excited about it.

00:42:59   But how is that manageable?

00:43:00   >> We don't know that it is.

00:43:01   >> Well, fair.

00:43:02   But it did look really cool.

00:43:03   It had that Apple visual flair, which I'm not sure if that's the appropriate time for

00:43:08   visual flair.

00:43:09   There was a lot of dead space there.

00:43:10   It looked aesthetically neat, but I'm not sure that that is the most appropriate or

00:43:14   useful way to represent a whole bunch of talking heads.

00:43:17   But nevertheless, all told, I am really interested in this.

00:43:20   I think it's really cool.

00:43:21   It would be nice, because I have two younger brothers, both of whom live in different parts

00:43:25   of California.

00:43:26   My parents live 45 minutes away from me.

00:43:27   It would be cool to have a family get together, which I'm sure will never actually happen.

00:43:31   But hypothetically, in my fantasy world, it seems like it would be neat to be able to

00:43:35   do that.

00:43:36   Maybe once a month we could all get on group FaceTime and just kind of hang out for a few

00:43:40   minutes.

00:43:41   >> You are the only person in the world who wants to create more family get togethers.

00:43:45   >> You can tell which squares are your parents, because it's like facing the table, or the

00:43:49   ceiling.

00:43:50   Like, I can only see the top of your head, mom.

00:43:52   Look down.

00:43:53   >> I think it's also really cool the way it's integrated into messaging groups also.

00:43:58   So if you have an iMessage group, you can just go into a FaceTime thing.

00:44:01   That's a really cool feature.

00:44:02   >> I'm still waiting for parity with iChat, because in iChat, correct me if I'm wrong,

00:44:05   I used to be able to share a document.

00:44:07   And often, if I'm on a FaceTime, it's like, oh, we took this cute picture of the dog or

00:44:11   your grandchild.

00:44:12   Take a look at it.

00:44:13   I want to serve up the picture as well.

00:44:14   It seems like it would be an easy thing to do, but instead we end up pointing the phone

00:44:17   at a computer screen to show them the picture.

00:44:20   So we're getting there.

00:44:21   And also, it gave me kind of a little bit of PTSD flashbacks about like massive video

00:44:25   conferences at work.

00:44:26   You know, because we have those cameras where like whoever's talking, it'll focus on them.

00:44:30   There's a couple of cool cameras that'll do this.

00:44:32   They'll take the screen and split it up, and as the person talks, their square will get

00:44:35   bigger.

00:44:36   To your point, it's more space efficient than what they did.

00:44:38   But yeah, this looks like a-- I'm glad they do a multi-person.

00:44:41   The first person to do a 32-person thing, they'll probably put it up on YouTube, speaking

00:44:45   of.

00:44:46   But that just seems like too much.

00:44:47   >> And actually, I did think the demo was really cool.

00:44:49   And one of the things that on a meta level that I thought was interesting is like, what

00:44:53   was that demo prep like?

00:44:55   That must have been really, really interesting.

00:44:57   And you know, it seemed like everything behind them was at least mildly staged, of course.

00:45:01   And you have to have-- I mean, it looked like there were 15, 20 engineers on the call.

00:45:05   And from what I gathered, that is legitimately the FaceTime team.

00:45:09   That wasn't mock-ups.

00:45:10   That wasn't actors or actresses.

00:45:11   That was the FaceTime team.

00:45:13   And just the administrity of getting that demo done just seemed like it would be an

00:45:18   immense amount of work.

00:45:19   And it went off-- it played really well.

00:45:22   I thought it was really awesome.

00:45:23   >> They make the construction crew be the first to walk over the bridge they built.

00:45:25   It's that kind of thing.

00:45:26   >> Yeah, exactly.

00:45:27   >> Good motivation.

00:45:28   >> Yeah.

00:45:29   >> Yikes.

00:45:30   >> All right.

00:45:31   So anything else on iOS?

00:45:32   I think we're good, right?

00:45:33   All right.

00:45:34   >> We are also sponsored this week by Audible.

00:45:37   Audible is also right here at AltConf.

00:45:39   They really support the community.

00:45:41   And they're hiring developers.

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00:46:46   [applause]

00:46:47   Let's talk watchOS.

00:46:48   Don't worry, tvOS will save us a lot of time.

00:46:59   That's true.

00:47:00   Competitions are things.

00:47:01   So if you're at WWDC, I assume this is either similar or vaguely related, maybe not.

00:47:07   But if you're at WWDC and you're an attendee, there's actually an app written by LoseIt

00:47:12   where you can form a group of up to four people and based on how much you complete your rings

00:47:17   during the day or during the week, you accumulate points and eventually you can get to the point

00:47:22   that you can win some sort of free swag at the end of the week at dub dub.

00:47:25   This sounded at a glance very similar, but it also seemed like more personal.

00:47:29   Like I could challenge you since you never wear your watch to some sort of competition,

00:47:32   which I will obviously win.

00:47:34   Surprise, you win.

00:47:35   Yeah, exactly.

00:47:36   But in principle, I like it.

00:47:37   I think it's a good idea.

00:47:38   I'm just going to keep cruising and somebody interrupt me.

00:47:41   I'm going to start automatically or semi-automatically.

00:47:45   This is kind of like the thing nudging you.

00:47:46   It doesn't start automatically, but it suggests to you, you know, it looks like you're writing

00:47:50   a letter.

00:47:51   No, it says it looks like you started a workout.

00:47:55   I got that reference, John.

00:47:56   Good, thank you.

00:47:57   It looks like you started a workout.

00:47:58   And then if you say yes, it retroactively counts all the parts for you, but it won't

00:48:02   actually start it.

00:48:03   And who was I talking to?

00:48:04   I was talking to somebody, I think it was Scott McNulty who was saying he uses Fitbit

00:48:07   because it doesn't ask him anything.

00:48:09   It just starts the workout when he exercises so he doesn't have to think about it.

00:48:11   So the Apple Watch is still not at that point.

00:48:13   It still wants you to nudge it and say yes, which is good for like not accidentally starting

00:48:17   workouts, but bad, I mean, say you do the whole workout and it automatically stops it,

00:48:22   does that notification go away?

00:48:23   You don't get credit?

00:48:24   I find it still is uneasy middle ground between complete automation and needing you to give

00:48:29   it the go ahead to say that you're in a workout, which I feel like it should know.

00:48:34   So the next thing they talked about was walkie talkie.

00:48:36   And so now we can all be Dick Tracy, which is super exciting.

00:48:39   Like legitimately we can all be Dick Tracy and that as a, as a kid who enjoyed the movies

00:48:44   and I never read the comics, but the movie.

00:48:46   Um, anyway, I think that's amazing that we can, we can have this walkie talkie on our

00:48:50   wrist.

00:48:51   That being said, I grew up in the, in the Northeast during the time that next telephones

00:48:54   were thing.

00:48:55   Do you remember this?

00:48:56   Oh, it was the worst.

00:48:58   And you would be in the grocery store.

00:49:00   Hey, did you want bananas?

00:49:02   No, I wanted apples.

00:49:04   It was just, it was like a billion decibels and it was terrible.

00:49:07   If you don't remember this, consider yourself very lucky because a, you're probably young

00:49:11   and B you didn't have to deal with it, but it was the worst.

00:49:15   So I'm very curious to see if anyone ever uses this feature for any reason, but I am

00:49:20   full, I am in full support of it being a thing.

00:49:23   I just can't imagine a time that I would use it.

00:49:26   Yeah, I think it's going to be, this is like a much better solution to watch to watch quick

00:49:31   communication than digital touch and everything.

00:49:33   So I think this is a good, it's a good move.

00:49:36   I don't know what, what kind of adoption we'll get, but it looks pretty good to me.

00:49:39   The only thing is like when, when the message comes in to your watch, does your watch just

00:49:43   start making noise or do you have to like accept it and to play it?

00:49:46   Yeah, I don't know.

00:49:47   Yeah, I think it's pre announces with a buzz and a beat, but I don't know.

00:49:49   Again, I don't know if you need to like do something to allow it to happen.

00:49:52   Like if you, if you, if you know your friends are like out somewhere like sensitive and

00:49:55   you can just make their watch start talking, that would be pretty fun.

00:49:59   There's probably some kind of like, you know, taps you and you have to tap to play it.

00:50:02   It doesn't replace your walkie talkies though, sadly because it, they said wifi and cellular.

00:50:06   So if you're again, if you were with you without signal, it's not like the watches are radio

00:50:09   to radio communicating with each other.

00:50:11   You need internet access.

00:50:12   As far as I could tell from the keynote.

00:50:13   Yeah, yeah, you totally do.

00:50:14   And yeah, like I got like a thousand tweets when that was announced saying that they were

00:50:17   like my walkie talkies were no longer necessary, but trust me, they are.

00:50:21   Yep.

00:50:22   Moving along.

00:50:23   Siri shortcuts are in the Siri watch face, which is exciting.

00:50:26   One of the things I was really looking forward to was enhancements to the series watch face.

00:50:29   This isn't quite as much as I wanted, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.

00:50:34   To me, this is a really good thing because what we're seeing with the watch, you know,

00:50:37   and we'll get to some of the audio stuff in a second, but like what I think what we've

00:50:40   all seen as developers is that it's hard to maintain a watch OS app.

00:50:45   That's a really compelling, good experience for most apps.

00:50:48   For most apps seem better served, just using notifications as your UI that happens to also

00:50:54   show on the watch.

00:50:55   So the combination of notifications getting better and getting more interactive as well

00:50:59   as having the new Siri shortcuts being like third party capable to show up in the Siri

00:51:04   face and everything and the Siri watch face itself, which it kind of came after my time

00:51:08   of using the watch.

00:51:09   But you know, a lot of our friends love it.

00:51:11   Like it seems like the Siri watch face is very popular and it kind of seems like the

00:51:15   entire model of having like regular watch apps like third party watch apps and even

00:51:21   complication and everything seems like that is on the way out or being strongly de-emphasized

00:51:26   now that we've learned, you know, both we as developers and Apple and users have learned

00:51:30   like what is the watch really better at?

00:51:32   Like how, what's the best way to use this device?

00:51:35   It does seem like we're moving away from apps more and more and more towards smart suggestion

00:51:39   things as part of the Siri face and more interactive notifications.

00:51:43   And I don't think that's a bad thing.

00:51:45   I don't know.

00:51:46   When I, when I saw this, they spent so much time, those, hey, we intense the Siri watch

00:51:50   face and then they should feature after feature after feature, all of which only worked as

00:51:53   far as I can tell in the Siri watch face, which is your point, but it's like, is that

00:51:58   a watch face or is that just how the whole watch should work now?

00:52:00   Because what if you don't want to use the Siri watch face?

00:52:03   A lot of people I know you have an app watch and don't use the Siri watch face.

00:52:05   They can't get any of these features is my understanding from the demo.

00:52:08   All those features might as well not exist, but a lot of them are useful features.

00:52:11   So it's like, okay, if you want your watch to be really useful, the trick is that the

00:52:15   tech nerds will tell you is you have to use the Siri watch face and they're like, but

00:52:18   I want to see a picture of my kid.

00:52:19   I don't want to use the Siri watch face.

00:52:21   So I think they have to figure out, is this how the watch works or is this just how one

00:52:25   watch face works or, you know, make third party watch faces and let them all integrate

00:52:28   the same way the Siri watch face does.

00:52:30   Oh yeah, right.

00:52:31   No, I mean, I think, I think this is the answer to why there aren't third party watch faces

00:52:35   and also why Apple hasn't really added a lot of their own watch faces.

00:52:38   I think what they're, what they're probably seeing the same thing that our friends use

00:52:41   the Siri watch face are seeing, which is, Oh, this is actually better.

00:52:44   This actually is the watch OS.

00:52:47   Like this is the, this is the like one default interface to the watch.

00:52:52   The idea of watch faces is probably on the way out too, but do you think most people

00:52:55   use the Siri watch face?

00:52:57   I see Apple watches all the time.

00:52:58   They do not use a Siri watch face, but the question is like if the Siri watch face was

00:53:01   the default, what any, you know, what customers hate it.

00:53:04   People look for Siri watch the watch faces.

00:53:06   They pick the ones they like, how they look.

00:53:07   The Siri watch face doesn't look good in the, in the screen where you swipe through the

00:53:11   things.

00:53:12   They like this one.

00:53:13   I like that one.

00:53:14   They don't know all the functionality that it would be exposed by that.

00:53:16   Maybe they'll default it.

00:53:17   If they default it, then that's how they'll win.

00:53:19   Yeah, we'll see.

00:53:20   But I mean, it's a, it's a good sign no matter how you slice it.

00:53:22   Uh, moving right along web content in a like text messages and things like that.

00:53:26   You can get basic web content in there, which I'm really excited about.

00:53:29   So if somebody sends you a tweet or, you know, a link to a menu, they, I think they even

00:53:32   said that they would be able to display good luck with that.

00:53:35   And then flash flash website.

00:53:36   You can't even see that in Safari anymore because they deprecated the, that's true.

00:53:39   Well, maybe that's why Kevin Lynch is on the watch.

00:53:40   It'll show flash.

00:53:41   Oh, there it is.

00:53:42   Uh, but they, they said they would use reader view if such a thing was possible, which I

00:53:45   thought was great.

00:53:46   Um, we could probably go on for three hours about this, but we'll hopefully keep it pretty

00:53:50   short.

00:53:51   But podcasts is a thing on the watch in a first party sense, which is great.

00:53:55   And additionally there's API rollercoaster of emotions by the way.

00:53:58   Yeah, I can imagine.

00:53:59   I can imagine you had a stressful couple of minutes there.

00:54:01   Uh, but also there's a third party API for playing background audio, which from what

00:54:05   I understood from underscore when we were chatting over lunch, it's a pretty robust

00:54:09   API and I didn't get a chance to look at the ins and outs of it.

00:54:12   And I don't know if you have Marco, but it seemed like you can now do a legitimate overcast

00:54:17   on the watch, which I for one am really excited for.

00:54:21   Yeah, this, I haven't actually tried it yet, but I did look at the API's and they look

00:54:26   pretty good.

00:54:27   It looks like Apple like looked at my blog post of why I can't make a watch app and did

00:54:31   every single thing on it.

00:54:33   So I really, really hope it works out well.

00:54:36   So the downside is I'm going to have a busy summer, but this is, this is in a very good

00:54:40   way because I've wanted to bring that feature back ever since I killed it.

00:54:44   I get emails every single day about it and it like it's so it's such an obvious feature

00:54:48   that my app desperately needs.

00:54:50   Not only that, but we also now have volume control widgets on the watch that we can embed.

00:54:56   Thank goodness.

00:54:57   Like talk about it.

00:54:58   Finally, like literally about half of the people who have my app who have my app and

00:55:04   have a watch paired to their phone don't have the app installed because if you have it installed,

00:55:09   it's actually a worse experience for controlling your phone's audio than if you don't even have

00:55:13   it installed at all because it doesn't have volume control.

00:55:15   And now I can, now it appears again, I haven't tried this yet, but it appears that I can

00:55:18   do that.

00:55:20   That that is, that's almost as big of a deal as the standalone podcast playback.

00:55:24   Yeah, I'm really excited for that.

00:55:25   Can we give a brief shout out to that woman who did a presentation while exercising?

00:55:30   Oh God.

00:55:31   Yes, that was amazing.

00:55:32   Thank you.

00:55:33   You, you could not have paid me enough to do that.

00:55:37   She handled it like a champ public speaking on hard mode.

00:55:40   Like you do not want to be out of breath.

00:55:43   And I was so like, I was so tense cause she would get more out of breath and she increased

00:55:46   attention.

00:55:47   I'm like, don't really increase attention.

00:55:48   Just pretend you're doing it.

00:55:49   We won't know.

00:55:50   That was, that was pretty amazing.

00:55:52   I'm not sure how good of a demo it made, but it was good theater.

00:55:55   Yeah, it very much was.

00:55:56   And we should take a moment to note that by my count, there was Tim, there was Kevin Lynch,

00:56:03   there was Craig.

00:56:04   There was the gentleman from Adobe and there were the Lego two or three people, which is

00:56:08   a lot of dudes for sure.

00:56:10   But every other Apple person that was brought on stage, I think literally every other one

00:56:15   was a woman and in some cases not a white person, which is tremendous.

00:56:19   And we've been banging this drum for a long time.

00:56:22   And I was really happy to see that there was definite progress in that department.

00:56:26   It's not perfect.

00:56:27   I got a handful of angry tweets and reply to me, you know, congratulating Apple on this

00:56:30   about, Oh, well you didn't, they didn't have this.

00:56:32   They didn't have that.

00:56:33   I understand that, but this is a great step and it is a lot better than it was a couple

00:56:38   of years ago when I started to be aware of it and started to pay a lot more attention

00:56:41   to it.

00:56:42   So I'm really pleased with Apple that the diversity is on stage is looking, is looking

00:56:46   way up and that was great.

00:56:47   Yeah, we can do that.

00:56:48   We can absolutely do that.

00:56:49   So we also had a Apple TV update that contains nothing for developers.

00:56:59   Yeah, it's Apple TV still a thing.

00:57:00   Moving on.

00:57:01   It's a thing where like, you know, like our friend John Gruber likes to sometimes say

00:57:04   that like, you know, you look at other companies' keynotes that are often too long or too bloated

00:57:09   and you can kind of see like the org chart in the, in like what gets in the keynote and

00:57:12   like every department has to have their say and has to have their keynote time.

00:57:16   This kind of felt like that.

00:57:17   This kind of felt like we have to say something about TV OS, but there, it was entirely about

00:57:23   like new consumer level features and features that are built into their own media players

00:57:27   and stuff.

00:57:28   Like there was nothing for developers at all in there.

00:57:29   There was another one of those releases where they tout features that rely entirely on how

00:57:34   much adoption they get from big third parties.

00:57:36   Yeah.

00:57:37   So like, great.

00:57:38   It'll integrate with all your cables as long as you have charter cable.

00:57:41   Comcast, Verizon, we don't know who those people are.

00:57:45   Zero sign on.

00:57:46   We'll figure out what network you're on and not have you sign on if you're on charter

00:57:49   cable.

00:57:50   It's like, like they even said it, they announced single sign on before and nothing happened

00:57:55   because none of us have those providers.

00:57:57   So we're all still typing in those, those three letter codes.

00:57:59   They did say 50% year over year growth on Apple TV, which I think was good.

00:58:01   And they did tout the things they have to tout, which is like, well, TV, we support

00:58:04   all these standards.

00:58:05   We do Dolby vision and now we have at most and all like, that's all good thumbs up, but

00:58:09   they still, they still face headwinds as Tim would say in the market in terms of like they

00:58:14   want to make the experience easier, but Comcast and Verizon do not want them to make the experience

00:58:19   easier and they are at an impasse.

00:58:21   So I wish them luck, but I'm glad they're adding the, the, the tech features to the

00:58:25   Apple TV, even if they're not able to integrate and make the user experiences as good as they

00:58:29   could.

00:58:30   They can fix the remote anytime they want though.

00:58:31   No one's stopping them from doing, they even touted you can use cable company remotes.

00:58:34   Like, Oh, how far are we fallen?

00:58:36   Where people are applauding for the ability to use the Comcast remote with their Apple

00:58:39   TV, which by the way you can do now it is, it has always learned.

00:58:45   You can learn with your IRM up, but there's no track pad on it.

00:58:47   It's just, well, but now it said you can also now trigger Siri from third-party remotes,

00:58:50   which is something you couldn't do before.

00:58:51   I don't know which microphone you would talk into.

00:58:53   Like if that's the Comcast, some of the Comcast mics do have, or other cable companies do

00:58:57   have microphones.

00:58:58   Maybe, maybe they're opening up like maybe, maybe like at the fall event, we'll see a

00:59:01   new remote from Logitech that is like an alternate TV remote that includes the microphone and

00:59:05   everything that's got a third party's make the controllers like third parties make the

00:59:08   remotes.

00:59:09   Exactly.

00:59:10   That's like, honestly, that's not a bad solution.

00:59:11   It's not a great solution, but it's better than what we have now.

00:59:14   When you with your next Mac, you'll get, you already, I was going to say you had to buy

00:59:17   a Logitech mouse and a Microsoft keyboard.

00:59:19   You have any use the Apple mouse.

00:59:22   Anyway, I hope I wanted to make better peripherals.

00:59:24   Right, so speaking of the Mac.

00:59:26   Yeah, so how do we pronounce this?

00:59:28   John, you were trying to explain this to us earlier.

00:59:29   I already forgot what you told me.

00:59:30   Some random person on Twitter said Mojave.

00:59:32   Is it Mojave or Mojave?

00:59:34   Mojave.

00:59:35   Mojave.

00:59:36   Mojave.

00:59:37   Mojave.

00:59:38   California people say long e.

00:59:39   All right, we'll do that then.

00:59:40   Did you see that the closed caption person spoiled the name apparently in the caption

00:59:43   stream?

00:59:44   They hit the wrong button or something early on, and if you were watching the closed captions,

00:59:47   you learned the name of the new Mac OS before they announced it.

00:59:51   I didn't know that was in English, not Chinese or whatever.

00:59:53   All right, so I'm going to try to speed run this and I'm going to make it probably four

00:59:57   sentences before we get started.

00:59:58   See, I didn't even finish that sentence.

00:59:59   I didn't even finish that sentence.

01:00:00   Come on.

01:00:01   We're talking about the Mac.

01:00:02   I just want to say how they framed it.

01:00:07   First of all, he came out and said, "We love the Mac," which is a, you know, doth protest

01:00:11   too much thing, even though that is the incorrect interpretation of that phrase from Shakespeare.

01:00:15   Look it up.

01:00:16   But everybody knows what I mean.

01:00:18   Everyone knows the reverse one.

01:00:20   And he said, "This is a release that's chock full of new features."

01:00:23   So that was like the first two sentences they said.

01:00:25   This is not zero new features.

01:00:27   This is not a rebuilding year.

01:00:28   They tried to pitch this as chock full of new features.

01:00:31   And there were new features, but I'm not going to say it was chock full.

01:00:34   I don't -- all right.

01:00:35   Anyway, go ahead.

01:00:36   >> So the other thing they said -- thank you, Dan.

01:00:38   The other thing they said was, "It's inspired by pro users and designed for everyone," which

01:00:42   I thought was a great line.

01:00:44   I'm not -- I haven't decided how much they achieved that, but I thought it was a great

01:00:47   line.

01:00:48   So dark mode is what we all knew was coming.

01:00:50   Dynamic desktop, which has things like desktop stacks, which I thought was a very cool and

01:00:54   clever implementation that, again, is a great example of Apple doing Apple things in a great

01:00:58   Apply way.

01:00:59   >> Well, the stacks thing, I was trying -- it was racking my brain to figure out where I

01:01:02   had seen that before.

01:01:03   I was like, "Did they -- was that in like Mac OS 8 when it was Copeland?

01:01:06   Or did they implement that in like a beta of Mac OS 10?"

01:01:09   I couldn't recall and eventually figured it out.

01:01:11   It was -- God, this is a terrible name.

01:01:13   But it was the pile metaphor.

01:01:14   You can have piles.

01:01:17   And this was -- I think it was from Apple's Advanced Technology Group in 1992.

01:01:21   The same thing.

01:01:22   Like it was like a paper on how you can pile things and how it's a reasonable way of organizing

01:01:27   stuff.

01:01:28   And so now finally they've shipped this idea they've had forever.

01:01:31   I'm unconvinced of how good this is because, yeah, you have a messy desktop and then they

01:01:36   all go sort it into piles and you can scrub over them.

01:01:39   But I think if you did that to someone's messy desktop, they'd be like, "Where's all my stuff?

01:01:43   Where did it all go?"

01:01:44   It's like, "Oh, don't worry.

01:01:45   All your images are in the image pile."

01:01:47   It's like, "No, but I had it arranged.

01:01:48   The lower left was these things."

01:01:50   I feel like they don't recognize, and I've said it a million times, the reason people

01:01:53   use a desktop is it's the one place on their computer that they can always find and spatially

01:01:57   arrange things.

01:01:58   And it's not arranged well, just like people's houses and desks aren't arranged well.

01:02:02   But it's the one place they know where to find.

01:02:04   And it does not move.

01:02:05   And if you put an icon on the lower left and a big clump of icons, they're always in the

01:02:09   lower left.

01:02:10   So I guess I could say, "You're going to run this experiment.

01:02:13   Find someone with a messy desktop.

01:02:14   Show them the piles feature and watch the horror on their face when all their icons get sorted

01:02:18   into piles."

01:02:20   Like there better be an undo for that.

01:02:21   So I think it's an interesting feature, and I think people can use it.

01:02:25   But they're like, "Oh, you can sort by tag.

01:02:27   It doesn't just have to be by kind."

01:02:28   Like if you were the type of person who tags your images, your files, and your desktop,

01:02:32   your desktop doesn't look like that.

01:02:34   It's meticulously arranged.

01:02:35   So I am not sure piles or stacks or whatever the hell they're calling them is the greatest

01:02:44   feature.

01:02:45   But hey, at least they're doing something to the finder, right?

01:02:46   It's better than nothing.

01:02:47   So then they have gallery view.

01:02:49   So I guess RIP cover flow.

01:02:50   I guess we're done.

01:02:51   It's already gone, isn't it?

01:02:52   This is the triumphant return of non-3D cover flow.

01:02:55   Something like that.

01:02:56   But it did look good.

01:02:57   They had a sidebar where you could get a whole bunch of metadata about pictures, for example.

01:03:00   You could plug in automator actions on the side.

01:03:02   Looks really nice.

01:03:03   That's a big thing, though.

01:03:04   That little quick action thing in that little sidebar that's new now, that I think is going

01:03:08   to be really useful long term.

01:03:10   So it isn't just automator actions, by the way, shout out to automator on stage.

01:03:15   Who was expecting that?

01:03:18   Anyway, so it's automator actions, or you can put in shell scripts or Apple scripts

01:03:23   as those actions, too.

01:03:24   And then apps can, I think, also expose their own actions for relevant file types and everything.

01:03:28   That sounds great as a Mac user.

01:03:30   And Siri shortcuts, too, right?

01:03:31   Oh no, I forgot.

01:03:32   Not on the Mac.

01:03:33   Oh yeah, there it is.

01:03:34   No, but as a user, that sounds like it's probably going to be a really useful feature, just

01:03:38   some day-to-day usage of the Mac.

01:03:39   Definitely.

01:03:40   Quick Look seems like it's gotten a lot of the kind of brains of Preview, which is very

01:03:44   excellent.

01:03:45   I think that looks really good.

01:03:46   It's a little weird that Quick Look has now become an editor.

01:03:50   Fair.

01:03:51   But I still think it's good.

01:03:52   It's like the markup.

01:03:53   It's all the iOS stuff.

01:03:54   We'll get to the screenshot stuff in a second.

01:03:55   But yeah, you Quick Look, and now you've got the little markup icon, and now you can scribble

01:03:58   on it and save it.

01:03:59   It's convenient.

01:04:00   You can do lots of stuff without going into an app.

01:04:02   It's like OpenDoc resurrected in this weird way where these little views have all these

01:04:07   little tools that now spring around them and different share actions and stuff.

01:04:11   But what happens if you make some edits that you don't necessarily, I guess you don't save

01:04:14   it, but what if you click away to a different window and then that window disappears?

01:04:17   It's a Quick Look window.

01:04:18   Do those just get saved without you, I don't know.

01:04:21   It's kind of odd.

01:04:22   Yeah.

01:04:23   I mean, it looks neat in principle, but I agree that it's also odd.

01:04:27   Continuity camera.

01:04:28   You skipped on the screenshots thing.

01:04:30   Marco's favorite feature.

01:04:31   Oh, my bad.

01:04:32   Again, the screenshot editor coming from iOS 11 basically, that kind of feature, coming

01:04:37   into the Mac where you take a screenshot and it kind of shows a little overlay of it and

01:04:40   you can pick it up right there and start editing and everything.

01:04:42   Plus the additional enhancements to screenshot capture to make it easier to capture screenshots

01:04:47   and screen recordings.

01:04:48   And movies, you don't have to use QuickTime Player.

01:04:50   Yeah, all that stuff.

01:04:51   This is again, this is more stuff that I think we will actually really use this as Mac power

01:04:57   users.

01:04:58   I think we will, trademark, I think we really will use these features all the time because

01:05:02   it's just like things that enhance data to use for the Mac.

01:05:05   This is one of the reasons why I'm actually very happy with the overall amount of things

01:05:09   that we got today because for the Mac in particular, it really does seem like Tim's statement about,

01:05:14   like he said, it's chock full of features inspired by per users, but designed for everyone.

01:05:19   That's what the Mac always has been like.

01:05:21   The Mac has always been, you know, a thing that was very powerful.

01:05:25   If you were a pro user or a power user, you could really get very powerful with it.

01:05:30   But it was also like, it was like progressive power.

01:05:33   Like new users could look at it and know how to use it.

01:05:36   These kinds of features, we really haven't seen these added to the Mac in a while.

01:05:41   Like during the uncertain times of the last few years where it seemed like the Mac might

01:05:46   be really abandoned, we really haven't seen anything like this get added in any meaningful

01:05:51   numbers and to have all this stuff in this release, I think Tim's statement was actually

01:05:55   correct.

01:05:56   I think this actually is new features, maybe chock full.

01:05:58   I'll leave that up to you and Chock and Barry to decide.

01:06:01   These really are, I think, useful everyday features that like, they're not going to like,

01:06:06   you know, create a whole new article on 9to5Mac about them necessarily.

01:06:10   Like they're not like, you know, totally like headline grabbing things.

01:06:13   But I think these things are really going to be very useful to us every day, all day

01:06:17   as we use our Macs to do things.

01:06:19   Yeah, I think one of the best examples is that like the screenshot functionality.

01:06:22   Most of the functionality for screenshots, not the screen capture, but the screenshots

01:06:25   has been there.

01:06:26   But only if you know like, oh, command shift three is a screen, command shift four, but

01:06:29   then you hit spacebar, switch from window to question.

01:06:31   Nobody knows that except for like nerds, right?

01:06:33   And now they just did a simple thing.

01:06:34   Put an overlay on the screen with little buttons that they still might not know what they mean,

01:06:37   but it gives you a fighting chance.

01:06:38   There's no way you're going to discover like command shift four spacebar.

01:06:42   You will not discover that, but if you see an overlay, you'll try all four buttons and

01:06:46   eventually you'll get it.

01:06:47   So that's the type of stuff they could have done years and years ago and they just got

01:06:50   around to it.

01:06:51   Yeah.

01:06:52   So hopefully continuing my not so effective speed run.

01:06:55   Oh, before we move on.

01:06:57   This is legit.

01:07:01   I'm not trying to do this to you.

01:07:02   Screen recording, right?

01:07:03   So they integrated screen recording and when I saw the screen recording feature, they used

01:07:06   to be in QuickTime player.

01:07:07   Like you can record the screen or regions of whatever.

01:07:09   Now it's integrated in the screenshot.

01:07:10   And all I could think was that last year converting the Windows Server to Metal, this is what

01:07:14   you get out of it.

01:07:15   You convert the Windows Server to Metal and now you can integrate screen capture presumably

01:07:18   in a more efficient way without having an app because it's all built.

01:07:21   Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it just, that's what I thought about.

01:07:23   Like redoing infrastructure and causing kernel panics on Steve Trout and Smith's machine

01:07:29   constantly to rewrite the whole Windows Server in Metal, because you know you're going to

01:07:33   deprecate over in GL, gives you stuff like now I can do system wide screen capture as

01:07:37   like just a thing as part of the screenshot tool.

01:07:41   continuity camera.

01:07:42   I didn't get why that was so exciting.

01:07:44   Because they put crappy cameras in the MacBooks and you have a much better camera on your

01:07:47   phone so if you want to scan a document.

01:07:48   Yeah, like the camera on the top of the MacBook hasn't changed since like 2005.

01:07:51   You could hold your paper up to it but it won't be able to see anything.

01:07:55   Yeah, yeah.

01:07:56   I think it is a little bit questioning like they can remotely enable the camera.

01:08:00   Is that a creepy thing or a security problem?

01:08:02   But I think that will be another one of these just like everyday useful features like because

01:08:06   so often I want to take a picture of something in my room or something to show someone like

01:08:12   in Slack or something.

01:08:14   There's lots of uses for this and I take the picture on the phone and because photo sync

01:08:18   is too slow I will air drop it to myself between my phone and my Mac.

01:08:22   Or even you put it in Dropbox and wait to appear in Dropbox on your Mac.

01:08:25   This is all sort of weird.

01:08:26   Yeah, like that.

01:08:27   It's just this is yet another thing that's just going to save time.

01:08:29   Again, a solid feature probably if it works well.

01:08:33   Then they showed us news, stocks, voice memos and the home app and it was funny.

01:08:38   I was probably not the only one.

01:08:41   Myself and I was sitting next to Chris Harris on the other side in the keynote and the two

01:08:44   of us kind of looked at each other at the same moment and I'm sure we weren't the only

01:08:46   ones, but we realized this kind of looks like cross platform apps.

01:08:52   Like they're dog fooding something.

01:08:53   That was like the one tweet I made.

01:08:55   How did they port all these iOS apps to the Mac?

01:08:57   Yeah, exactly.

01:08:58   And it was all just.

01:08:59   And it looked exactly like the iPad apps.

01:09:01   Yeah, they were iOS apps with a title bar.

01:09:03   Yeah, exactly.

01:09:04   So at this point I'm starting to scratch my head and think there may be something here

01:09:08   after all.

01:09:09   But anyway, I really don't have any particular care for any of these apps, but I'm glad that

01:09:13   they're on the Mac.

01:09:14   Then they talked about security and privacy.

01:09:16   I didn't write any sub notes for that, so I don't even know what they said.

01:09:19   But I'm glad to see that security and privacy is still a priority.

01:09:23   It surprised me that when they were going through the here's all the things you get

01:09:25   notified for, like can I have access to your location, your contacts or whatever, and I

01:09:28   was like what are they going to add to it?

01:09:30   And I thought, oh, they're going to add camera.

01:09:32   But I'm like, but no, don't they have to ask permission to the camera already?

01:09:34   Apparently not.

01:09:35   How many people have asked before, do you think Mac apps have to ask permission to use

01:09:39   your camera?

01:09:40   Everyone would have said yes, but no.

01:09:41   So they're finally adding camera and mic to the permissions, which is nice.

01:09:46   You skipped over a bunch of stuff too quickly.

01:09:47   I want to go back to OpenGL and OpenCL deprecated.

01:09:50   Not a surprise really.

01:09:52   OpenCL maybe is a little bit of a surprise.

01:09:54   Maybe if you ask Gus here in the firm, he will say it is not a surprise.

01:09:59   So it's all metal, right?

01:10:00   So they got the proprietary thing.

01:10:02   No more OpenGL.

01:10:03   They haven't updated in years anyway.

01:10:04   It's a third party opportunity.

01:10:05   I think that OpenGL group has a third party OpenGL for the Mac, but that's kind of a shame.

01:10:10   No more 32-bit apps after Mojave.

01:10:13   And it was kind of painful to see them list like, and this means these 32 frameworks aren't

01:10:18   going to be there anymore.

01:10:19   And one of them was QuickTime.

01:10:20   And I just felt that was like end of an era.

01:10:22   The QuickTime framework, no.

01:10:24   Also Apple Java 1.6, nobody cares.

01:10:26   And Carbon.

01:10:29   And then the security stuff, where you were just going into.

01:10:31   SIP protection for third party apps, system integrity protection for third party apps.

01:10:34   I was just getting done telling you what I was able to do to my work laptop to disable

01:10:38   all the malware they install, because they can't do SIP for third party apps.

01:10:43   So if you have root on your machine, you can just temporarily disable stuff, right?

01:10:48   Now all these people who make institutional malware, also known as antivirus software

01:10:54   for your Macs and all sorts of other stuff, will be able to prevent you from, I guess

01:10:58   you can use the firmware to turn off system integrity protection.

01:11:01   But it's making people's lives harder.

01:11:03   I don't like it.

01:11:05   Mac App Store, still a thing.

01:11:07   Who knew?

01:11:08   So that's exciting.

01:11:10   There are some very interesting entries, or maybe re-entries in some cases, to Mac App

01:11:14   Store.

01:11:15   Panic is coming back to the Mac App Store, which is really exciting and interesting.

01:11:21   And bare bones with BB Edit is going to be in the App Store, and that is also really

01:11:25   exciting and interesting.

01:11:26   So apparently Apple is trying to make the App Store thing.

01:11:30   It's first it was fetch, and then it was the Mac App Store.

01:11:33   And apparently they're both still a thing.

01:11:34   Apple's going to court.

01:11:35   Trying to get people to come back.

01:11:38   The only weird thing is there might be good reasons why these apps are going back, but

01:11:43   we weren't told them in either the State of Union or the keynote.

01:11:47   We have no idea what changed, why are these apps going back.

01:11:50   They seem to leave for really good reasons.

01:11:53   We don't know.

01:11:54   There has to be some good reason why they're all going back and why Apple's putting all

01:11:57   this new effort into the App Store.

01:11:58   And if it was like changes to the Mac, obviously one of the reasons is the Mac App Store app

01:12:01   is better, right?

01:12:02   I mean, that's the thing they showed.

01:12:03   It could be worse.

01:12:04   The Mac App Store app is much better and it's fancier and you'll be able to advertise your

01:12:09   products.

01:12:10   So they didn't connect those dots, but they did show that.

01:12:12   But then that's an obvious question that you asked.

01:12:15   It's like why?

01:12:17   These people are coming back.

01:12:18   You would think because they have a quota or testimonial.

01:12:20   I left the Mac Store because X, Y, Z, but now something has changed and I've changed

01:12:25   my mind.

01:12:26   Like maybe they didn't have time to explain or maybe it was supposed to be self-evident,

01:12:29   but I have the same questions about how is the Mac App Store now a deal that these people

01:12:35   want to be part of?

01:12:36   I mean, maybe they just didn't have time.

01:12:38   Like sandboxing changes we might see later in the week.

01:12:40   A lot of these apps were out because of sandboxing changes, so maybe there's some changes to

01:12:44   the sandbox that made it feasible to come back in.

01:12:46   But in the keynote where they had a lot of time to blow up Legos, it seems like they

01:12:49   could have put in two or three sentences about why these apps came back.

01:12:54   Like oh, and these apps came back for these reasons and if you want to learn about them,

01:12:57   see them in sessions, whatever, whatever.

01:12:59   But anyway, I guess it's good for Apple that they're back, but as a consumer who has bought

01:13:05   both of those applications, I think I'll continue to do the direct ones.

01:13:08   And that is the real problem for the Mac App Store.

01:13:10   It's like why are people like me preferring the direct one rather than the Mac App Store

01:13:15   download?

01:13:16   I don't know.

01:13:17   I think I still have work to do, but this is the first big change in the Mac App Store

01:13:20   in forever and so that's good.

01:13:22   It's definitely progress.

01:13:23   They talked about Metal and Core ML and what was the thing where you can make models a

01:13:28   little easier?

01:13:29   What was that called?

01:13:30   - Create ML?

01:13:31   - Create ML, thank you.

01:13:32   - That's pretty cool.

01:13:33   - Yeah, it's definitely cool.

01:13:34   But in the interest of time, let's skip over that and let's talk about UIKit on the Mac.

01:13:37   It is a thing and it is supposedly coming next year and if the last year has told us

01:13:42   anything, we'll see what happens.

01:13:43   But it's supposedly coming next year.

01:13:46   This is really exciting.

01:13:47   I'm not sure if this is good for the Mac, if it's great for the Mac, if it's bad for

01:13:51   the Mac.

01:13:52   Like I can see very many different ways that this could end up, but the fact that they

01:13:56   are publicly acknowledging something that smells a lot like this marzipan thing, that

01:14:02   is, I was surprised and really into it and it seems really cool.

01:14:06   And I mean, the apps that they show, the news app and the other ones, I wouldn't say they

01:14:10   looked bad by any means.

01:14:11   I agree with, I think Marco, you had said a minute ago, they looked like iOS apps.

01:14:14   And yes, that's true, but it's not like they looked bad.

01:14:18   It looked a little bit off, but still good.

01:14:21   - The design is how it works, Casey.

01:14:22   - Yeah, well.

01:14:23   - I mean, they work like iOS apps.

01:14:24   I'm clicking on the upper left corner for this little back thing with a little chevron

01:14:27   to switch back in the view.

01:14:29   That's not how a Mac app works.

01:14:30   I mean, I understand the tech demo.

01:14:31   - Just push the side of your screen and move over a little bit.

01:14:35   - I'm a little bit--

01:14:36   - Push in.

01:14:37   - Yes.

01:14:38   So when we talked about how this could go, this is like a fairly timid version of the

01:14:42   possibilities, right?

01:14:43   So as they showed it, I mean, it's a portion of a UI kit coming to the Mac.

01:14:49   So if you have an application that uses UI kit and if it uses some or all the portion

01:14:53   that they bring over, then you can bring your iOS app to the Mac, which I suppose is good

01:14:57   for making people make Mac applications.

01:14:59   But their message is still not clear on, like they did the thing in the State of the Union

01:15:04   about an app kit.

01:15:05   That's the way to make apps to the Mac.

01:15:07   And we are still, it is, I forget what they said.

01:15:09   - I know what you're thinking of.

01:15:10   I can't remember the exact wording.

01:15:11   - You know, it's not deprecated.

01:15:14   There's still a thing that they're gonna support, right?

01:15:16   So my question from when we talked about this a couple weeks ago is like, what is Apple's

01:15:20   opinion of the best way to make Mac applications?

01:15:23   Like what is the new vision?

01:15:24   - They said app kit.

01:15:25   I thought that's what they said was that the best way to make a Mac app is app kit.

01:15:28   - Yeah, but they were clear about that.

01:15:29   They were very clear that like app kit should be what you use if you want to make the best

01:15:33   Mac app.

01:15:34   - But it seemed to me that by bringing iOS over, what they were saying is, I mean, yes,

01:15:38   to get iOS developers to do your stuff, but it almost seemed to me that like long-term,

01:15:42   if people keep using UI kit on the Mac and UI kit and understand scrolling and resizing

01:15:46   and mouse events and hovering and all the things and drag and drop, all the things that

01:15:50   they have to understand, right?

01:15:53   Why would you not make a Mac app directly in UI kit?

01:15:56   'Cause the UI kit is the easier to use, more modern, better fit for Swift, right?

01:16:00   I feel like there's a tension here between, it's kind of like Carbon and Cocoa in the

01:16:03   beginning where they seemed like peers and we wanted to see how it would shake out.

01:16:07   And if I was app kit, I'd be looking over my shoulder right now.

01:16:09   'Cause parts of UI kit are coming over.

01:16:12   The part that I was excited about from a tech nerd perspective in the State of the Union

01:16:15   they talked about it is like these two operating systems are built on the same core of, you

01:16:19   know, Darwin and everything.

01:16:20   People don't remember 'cause no one ever says Darwin in a keynote for the past decade.

01:16:23   But it's there, it's the same, you know, OS under the covers.

01:16:25   And they said that they had drifted apart, like the underpinnings of iOS, like because

01:16:29   they really had the Mac, hack up Mac OS 10 to get it on the original iPhone.

01:16:32   And they just drift apart because like this is suited to the phone, that's suited to that.

01:16:36   And they're gonna unify those things, which is something they probably should have done

01:16:39   a long time ago just to have less bug surface, right?

01:16:41   And now the phones are like more powerful than the Macs in some cases.

01:16:44   So yeah, unify that core layer and then that's like a level playing field for app kit and

01:16:49   UI kit to duke it out for the soul of the Mac.

01:16:53   The three, the four apps that they showed, they look like iOS apps.

01:16:57   They did not look like Mac apps.

01:16:59   And I know they tried to say, "Look, it behaves like a Mac.

01:17:00   I can select text and drag it."

01:17:02   And it's like, "You're not a Mac app yet.

01:17:05   You're not an Electron app.

01:17:06   I'll give you that, but you're not a Mac app."

01:17:08   Amen, brother.

01:17:09   No, but I think we should really congratulate Apple for dogfooding this and dogfooding it

01:17:14   up front because what was it?

01:17:15   It was iCloud Core Data that was a disaster.

01:17:18   And it wasn't until they started dogfooding the other iCloud stuff that it really got

01:17:21   good.

01:17:22   And so I am really enthusiastic about it, tentatively, but very enthusiastic about this,

01:17:25   that they're dogfooding it.

01:17:27   They appear to be doing it right.

01:17:28   And that's really exciting.

01:17:29   And so all in all, it was a pretty decent keynote.

01:17:34   I thought it was pretty good.

01:17:35   Now admittedly, I had fairly low expectations in part because nothing really leaked, in

01:17:40   part because I didn't know what to make of it.

01:17:43   But I thought all told, it was good.

01:17:44   It was not the best keynote I've ever seen, but it was good.

01:17:46   Do you want to talk about the fact that Apple's doing a thing now where they tell you a year

01:17:49   ahead of time something they're doing?

01:17:51   Yeah, that's crazy.

01:17:52   It's wriggling me out.

01:17:53   They do it with the Mac Pro, they do it with this, they do it unintentionally with AirPlay

01:17:56   2 and messages in the cloud.

01:17:59   AirPower.

01:18:00   And AirPower, which is never coming, whatever.

01:18:04   But the Mars Band thing, all the rumors were dead on except for the part where they said,

01:18:09   "Yeah, but Apple's going to talk about it anyway."

01:18:10   When they put up that slide in the beginning that said iOS, watchOS, tvOS, whatever, MacOS,

01:18:16   I knew at that point that you saved the best for last, right?

01:18:20   What the heck do they have in MacOS that it's like would be the best?

01:18:22   It's got to be the Mars Band thing.

01:18:24   But I was like, "But they said it wasn't ready.

01:18:26   Maybe we're all wrong.

01:18:27   Maybe it is ready this year."

01:18:28   Nope, not ready this year.

01:18:29   But they announced it anyway.

01:18:31   And it's not like they're reacting to rumors.

01:18:33   It feels like Apple feels increasingly that they need to put a stake in the ground to

01:18:37   say, "Don't worry, we're going to fix this Mac thing.

01:18:39   Not this year, not next year, but we're going to fix it.

01:18:42   And don't worry, we're going to let you do UIKit.

01:18:44   Not this year, but we're going to tell you about it anyway."

01:18:47   That is different for Apple.

01:18:49   I don't know if it's bad or good.

01:18:50   It's fun for us.

01:18:51   We learn stuff ahead of time.

01:18:52   But it's kind of like they're Osborn affecting themselves a little bit.

01:18:56   Are people really going to be diving into starting a new app kit based Mac app right

01:19:01   now?

01:19:02   Or are they going to wait until next year and see how this whole UIKit on the Mac thing

01:19:05   shakes out?

01:19:06   >> Well, I think this is them kind of realizing that MacOS and the Mac as a platform, especially

01:19:13   with the more recent focus of Mac as the pro platform by Apple, they're finally realizing

01:19:18   that pros and people who use this platform for work sometimes need a roadmap.

01:19:24   Other companies do this too.

01:19:25   Intel gives roadmaps.

01:19:26   Microsoft gives roadmaps.

01:19:27   Big companies that deal with big businesses and pro customers tend to give roadmaps so

01:19:31   that people can plan and make decisions and have some idea of what they're in for next

01:19:37   year or for the next six months instead of just having occasional things randomly come

01:19:41   and blindside them.

01:19:43   So for this, if I was a Mac developer and say I had an iPad app and maybe my Mac app

01:19:50   was a lot of work to maintain because I'm not that good of a Mac developer and maybe

01:19:55   I'm having a new version that I'm planning for next year, maybe I might hold that off

01:19:59   a little bit now.

01:20:01   Maybe not put a whole lot of effort into a Mac UI if my app doesn't really necessarily

01:20:07   need to be the best Mac app in the world.

01:20:09   And I have to have an iOS code base anyway.

01:20:11   This is a great thing.

01:20:13   They're telling developers really major pertinent information that we are really going to want

01:20:19   to know a year ahead of time.

01:20:21   That's great.

01:20:22   It helps us make good plans.

01:20:23   It helps us use our limited resources effectively.

01:20:25   And there's going to be a lot of arguing over whether this is good for the Mac or not.

01:20:31   We've had some of it on the show talking about the Mars opinion rumors.

01:20:33   I fall on the side of it being a great thing because I think pragmatically speaking, this

01:20:39   isn't a question of whether I now have to use all of AppKit to make an overcast Mac

01:20:44   app or whether I can have my iPad app run in a little window of some kind.

01:20:50   Because I was never going to do that.

01:20:51   I was never going to port the whole thing to AppKit because I've already evaluated that

01:20:54   option and decided it was too much work for what it would be worth to me.

01:20:58   So many companies find themselves in this position.

01:20:59   That's why we have things like Electron and all these weird cross-platform awful

01:21:03   frameworks that make it really hard to make good apps anywhere because the cost of making

01:21:07   apps on all these different platforms individually is too high for a lot of companies and indies

01:21:12   to justify.

01:21:13   So if they make it easier and cheaper to make Mac apps, there will be more Mac apps.

01:21:18   And Mac apps that use this UIKit on the Mac thing, which I kind of took note, they never

01:21:23   actually named it.

01:21:24   Yeah, I was going to say that they didn't give it a name, which is kind of weird because

01:21:28   they're going to announce it.

01:21:29   You can brand it, but they're not ready to brand it.

01:21:31   And by the way, some people did disassemble it and find some symbols inside the code base

01:21:35   that say the word "Marzipan."

01:21:38   So regardless of what this thing becomes, at some point some part of it had the word

01:21:44   "Marzipan" involved in it.

01:21:46   But speaking of, isn't in new Macs, isn't the T2 or something like that, isn't that

01:21:53   running like a cut-down version of iOS?

01:21:55   BridgeOS or something?

01:21:56   Right.

01:21:57   So you start iOS to start your Mac, and then we've seen disassembly of there being like

01:22:02   an iOS subsystem on your Mac.

01:22:04   So you use iOS to start your Mac to start iOS.

01:22:05   It's not an iOS subsystem, it's just the UIKit framework running on the Mac.

01:22:10   There's also another fun symbol that was like, you know, there was some symbol in the thing

01:22:14   that was like, underscore, something underscore Mac, something underscore iOS, and a new symbol

01:22:18   that was something underscore iOS Mac.

01:22:20   So it's like iOS running on your Mac.

01:22:24   Have fun putting on all your pound of fines for the million different symbols there.

01:22:27   Right.

01:22:28   But anyway, good keynote, John?

01:22:30   Yeah, they did, I forgot to mention one more one-year like thing where they announce something

01:22:34   and then you wait a year and it comes, and I want Marco to be able to use his bell, so.

01:22:37   APFS Fusion Drive.

01:22:44   That was announced along with APFS, like everybody's going to APFS in 2017 and we're going to convert

01:22:49   everything and we're going to support everything and we're going to support Fusion Drive, and

01:22:52   they did convert everything and for the most part it went okay, but they did not support

01:22:55   Fusion Drive, so now they do a year later.

01:22:58   So good keynote though, John?

01:23:00   I mean, it wasn't surprising, everything they announced was things, even the part that was,

01:23:04   you know, supposedly surprising, the marzipan, like we knew all of that, but it was surprising

01:23:07   that they said anything about it.

01:23:09   Like I fully expected all that to be true about whatever this marzipan thing is, and

01:23:12   then just not say anything about it, but Mac OS at the end of the keynote means Mac OS

01:23:17   is the star, kind of.

01:23:18   I'm not sure it's chock full of anything, and I'm really nervous about the Mac applications,

01:23:24   I'm making air quotes, you can't see it, but at least we'll get, I was going to say at

01:23:28   least we'll get Overcast on the Mac, but will we?

01:23:30   Can we get exclusive here on this podcast, Marco, will you commit to Overcast on the

01:23:34   Mac and tv OS?

01:23:36   If it's as easy to port my iPad app as they seem to indicate that it is, yeah, why would

01:23:40   I not do that?

01:23:41   To spite Casey?

01:23:42   I can always hire him to do it.

01:23:43   Right?

01:23:44   That would be kind of amazing though.

01:23:46   Well, and the whole thing with Overcast on the Mac is that was when I was sitting at

01:23:50   a computer for 40 to 50 hours a week.

01:23:53   You don't even need it anymore.

01:23:54   Yeah, I don't even care anymore.

01:23:55   But that's right.

01:23:56   Marco, but keep up.

01:23:57   Port's off, forget it, it's not happening, sorry.

01:23:58   It's all over, it's my fault.

01:23:59   As soon as you quit your job I can make Overcast on the Mac and you've got your polo shirt.

01:24:02   That's true, that is true.

01:24:03   So, we should talk about the video at the end too.

01:24:05   Yeah.

01:24:06   Oh, the ending video.

01:24:07   Yeah, I thought that was nice.

01:24:08   It was cute.

01:24:09   Yeah, I mean, so the first part is like, the first part is going to be, this is a bunch

01:24:12   of your friends up on screen, isn't this fun?

01:24:14   You can relate to it, and the second video was like, now your mom is on screen.

01:24:17   It was like, this is like Pixar levels of like, knife to the heart, like go ahead, try

01:24:21   to hate this video, it's someone's mom.

01:24:25   So it was, you know, they get you, they get you eventually, they get you in the end, you

01:24:28   get tired out, it's like, alright, fine.

01:24:30   I mean, overall, I was very happy with this keynote, I'm very happy with everything we

01:24:34   got.

01:24:35   I'm, you know, some of the presentation parts of it were kind of a mess, I think it needed

01:24:39   some editing, but like the actual meat of it, what we actually got, the new stuff we

01:24:42   have, it looks awesome, it is more than I expected, I got almost all the major themes

01:24:48   I wanted, you know, we still don't have new MacBook Pros, and that's unfortunate, but

01:24:51   you know, other than that, and you know, we don't have a real Siri kit audio API, but

01:24:57   we have a lot of good stuff I can now do with Siri, they got the watch stuff, you know,

01:25:01   they have all these cool enhancements to the Mac, we have marzipan being a real thing,

01:25:05   like this is all awesome, I'm really happy with this, and ultimately, you know, I said

01:25:10   last time, what I wanted was a sign of life that the reason the Mac has been so quiet

01:25:14   recently is not that it's dead, but that they're just working on stuff that isn't done yet,

01:25:19   and we got that.

01:25:21   That to me is the best, they really do seem like they have recommitted to the Mac as a

01:25:27   first class platform that's gonna continue, as opposed to this like horribly neglected

01:25:32   afterthought that is kind of annoying Tim Cook, like this is great, I'm very very happy about

01:25:37   this.

01:25:38   Is this the best thing?

01:25:41   You don't get that reference case, you don't laugh, you don't get it.

01:25:43   It's a tough crowd you guys.

01:25:46   Anyway, thank you very much to our very special sponsors this week, we are sponsored by Audible,

01:25:52   they're hiring right here at Allcom, go to audiblecareers.com, we are sponsored by these

01:25:55   awesome Aftershocks Trek's Air bone conduction headphones, go to atp.aftershocks.com to see

01:26:01   those, and sponsored by Microsoft with their Azure platform to make you learn all about

01:26:06   building intelligent iOS apps at scale, visit aka.ms/iosinazure.

01:26:10   Thank you so much to the sponsors, and we will talk to you next week.

01:26:14   [music]

01:26:39   Don't hold that guys, don't hold that.

01:26:41   [music]

01:27:03   Alright, so we got, we got something else we gotta talk about.

01:27:29   We gotta talk about these scooters.

01:27:30   These scooters man.

01:27:31   [laughter]

01:27:35   What is going on with these scooters?

01:27:36   So if you're not in San Jose or San Francisco or what have you, apparently it's a thing

01:27:43   that these scooter ferries just fly over the cities and just deposit scooters everywhere,

01:27:50   and for almost no money you can sign up to drive/ride/pilot whatever these scooters, electric

01:27:59   scooters around the city, and so I guess you Marco and Tiff and Mike and a few others who

01:28:05   were here before John and I signed up for this and started driving these scooters around,

01:28:11   and then yesterday you like got some for John and I to try.

01:28:15   I forced you to do it.

01:28:17   You forced John to do it, I needed encouragement.

01:28:19   I like scooters, it was fine.

01:28:21   [laughter]

01:28:22   Yeah, that's totally how it went.

01:28:23   That is not how that went, but anyway.

01:28:25   [laughter]

01:28:26   No hesitation, I wasn't like underscore cautiously setting out, saying goodbye to his wife like

01:28:31   he'd never see her again.

01:28:33   [laughter]

01:28:34   Well to be fair these things are terrifying.

01:28:36   Well the thing is they are terrifying, and they haul ass.

01:28:38   Those things move.

01:28:40   This is like the progression that I went through and then watched as everyone I know went through

01:28:45   the exact same progression is at first you start noticing that there are these scooters

01:28:49   everywhere and you think well that's kind of weird, like isn't that kind of littering

01:28:54   up the whole world, and this apparently is a controversy in these towns, cities, sorry,

01:28:59   but it's California, the towns.

01:29:01   Anyway, so there's this controversy with scooters all over the place, littering up the sidewalks

01:29:05   and everything.

01:29:06   And so you first see them and then you might see a couple of people whizzing by on them

01:29:09   and you're like wow, what jerks.

01:29:12   And then at some point you are bored at social policy and you're like hmm, there's like three

01:29:18   of them sitting right there.

01:29:19   And –

01:29:20   In the middle of the sidewalk, like not even really arranged in any particular way, they're

01:29:23   just there.

01:29:24   It's like being in your house with kids.

01:29:25   They just drop it wherever you are and walk out of the room.

01:29:28   So you go in this progression from what are those to those people are jerks to hmm, they're

01:29:35   right there, maybe I should try one.

01:29:36   I don't have anything else to do and I don't have to worry about angering the locals because

01:29:40   I'm only here like three days a year, they're not going to remember me.

01:29:43   So let's give it a shot.

01:29:44   Why not?

01:29:45   I got some time to kill.

01:29:46   How hard could it be?

01:29:47   On the Saturday before WWDC.

01:29:49   So I sign up for the app and try to scooter and I went through this progression of you

01:29:54   get on it and you're like whoa, whoa and then you push the accelerator really hard

01:29:59   and you're like whoa, holy shit.

01:30:01   These things are fast.

01:30:03   They really, really are.

01:30:04   Like if you are in town and obviously the people I'm looking at are but if you're

01:30:08   ever in town you should try it because they are disturbingly fast.

01:30:11   And you go through this progression of like you know, unfamiliar, jerk, curious, trying

01:30:16   it and then you're like oh my god this is really fun.

01:30:19   And then you start rationalizing like okay, this has to be a good thing because this is

01:30:24   fun and I want to rationalize this is a good thing.

01:30:27   So let's ignore all the problems of littering up the sidewalk and start talking about like

01:30:31   how this is going to change mass transit.

01:30:32   You know like we'll have to rethink cities.

01:30:35   You know all these like.

01:30:36   And they really are.

01:30:37   It was amazing.

01:30:38   But you forgot the final stage which is when you pointed out to me when you were describing

01:30:41   what it was like before I had tried it, what you said was 100% true is that as soon as

01:30:45   you do it you realize immediately this should be illegal.

01:30:47   Because they are heavy and they are too fast for the sidewalk and they are too slow for

01:30:54   the road and their wheels are too small for potholes and they like we need the law to

01:31:00   catch up with these scooters because this is not how cities should work.

01:31:05   Like if you gave these to everybody in the city it would be with the existing roads and

01:31:09   structure like it would be mass chaos and I just fear when people come whizzing by us

01:31:13   like they're just going to hit me like they're heavy.

01:31:15   They're big and heavy and they go that fast like 50 miles an hour.

01:31:18   But they go fast for.

01:31:19   You get into the mass P equals MV like these things are going to hurt you if you get hit

01:31:22   in the back with them.

01:31:24   So I am not a fan but they're so fun to ride.

01:31:27   It definitely feels.

01:31:29   Try it before they become illegal.

01:31:30   Yeah exactly like that that's why that's why I made them try it.

01:31:32   I'm like look we're going to come back here next year.

01:31:34   There's no way these will still be legal next year.

01:31:36   So you got to try it now because yeah they're this is way too fun.

01:31:41   They're way too fast.

01:31:42   There's no way this is going to be a long term check under your seats.

01:31:45   Everyone gets a free scooter.

01:31:47   And the other problem I have with it is that I think if I'd stayed on the scooter another

01:31:52   five minutes I would have gone from terrified to oh I think I've got this too.

01:31:56   I am evil Knievel.

01:31:57   And that would have been not good.

01:31:58   And I already got it in the face.

01:31:59   They cannot take a curb like you can't you can't go from the curb to the street because

01:32:03   the wheels are too small.

01:32:04   And the wheelbase is too big.

01:32:05   The very first ride he took he ended it by trying to go off of like a six inch tall curb

01:32:10   and just like bottom down.

01:32:11   He went on a bicycle but these things the wheelbase is too long and the wheels are too

01:32:13   small and yeah they're not.

01:32:15   Yeah they need bigger wheels.

01:32:18   We're going to need to get Horace Didoo on here to tell us about e-bikes because they

01:32:21   were like how can you talk about this and not mention e-bikes.

01:32:23   They're going to change the world.

01:32:24   We know.

01:32:25   We know Horace.

01:32:26   We know.

01:32:27   So try them before they're legal.

01:32:28   You heard it here first.

01:32:29   Thanks a lot everyone.

01:32:30   Thank you.

01:32:31   [Applause]

01:32:31   Thank you.

01:32:32   [Applause]

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