258: Non-Beta Data


00:00:00   - I was thinking the Mac Pro design speculation,

00:00:01   that could be pretty much any time before WDC probably.

00:00:04   - Every time, every day is Mac Pro speculation day.

00:00:07   - Oh, (bleep) me.

00:00:08   (laughing)

00:00:10   - I was thinking too, like I probably,

00:00:12   like we probably have done too much Mac Pro stuff recently,

00:00:15   so we could use it like a few weeks break from that.

00:00:18   - Oh, thank God.

00:00:19   - Disagree.

00:00:20   (electronic beeping)

00:00:21   - We should start with follow up.

00:00:23   Peter Van Broekhoven has some thoughts

00:00:26   about Apple's hesitation to do battery replacements.

00:00:29   And he writes in that one of the reasons that they really don't like to do battery replacements

00:00:35   is that if they can't get the battery out cleanly, then they'll replace the whole phone,

00:00:40   but they'll do it for the cost of just that battery replacement.

00:00:44   So he said he had an older phone, I think he said like a 5S or something like that,

00:00:49   that he still was running on the original battery, went to the Apple store.

00:00:53   He asked them to replace the battery, they botched it, and so he got himself a brand

00:00:57   new 5s for 90 whatever dollars or $30 whatever the cost is now and that that

00:01:01   explains to me anyway why they're super reticent to be doing battery

00:01:05   replacements unless they're really sure it's necessary yeah you know even if

00:01:11   you're willing to pay like oh you know just take my money I'm willing to pay

00:01:13   for the battery placements like yeah but this battery placement could change from

00:01:18   even from an $80 bill with the old price into something that costs Apple you know

00:01:23   several hundred dollars to give you basically a brand new phone because they

00:01:26   get the battery out. But it could be argued, well, Apple's your stupid fault for making phones that

00:01:30   you can't get the batteries out of without destroying them, so maybe the next time you

00:01:33   design a phone, make it easier to get the battery in and out. And they probably have, because he's

00:01:37   talking about a 5s, and there's been many phones since then. And so designing phones for serviceability

00:01:44   is, I think, something that Apple has been... I think it's probably like an arc. Like, the first

00:01:49   ones were probably reasonably serviceable just because they were simpler, and then they probably

00:01:53   probably got a lot less serviceable as they got thinner and more complicated and I feel

00:01:56   like now they're going the opposite direction of yeah we want to make them thin and compact

00:02:00   but also try to do the best we can for serviceability.

00:02:04   So really Apple is you know they're just making problems for themselves.

00:02:07   They continue to make things that are always glued together and have little ribbon connectors

00:02:12   that are all taped and glued on with adhesives that age and everything like that's that's

00:02:17   their own fault so I feel like they have to either just eat this cost or do better about

00:02:21   making serviceable phones, because they're the ones servicing them.

00:02:24   >> moving on, we have some news about iOS 11.3, which we'll talk about later, but one

00:02:29   of the things that's come out over the last week is that 11.3 will let users turn off

00:02:34   the battery performance throttling.

00:02:37   And I don't really understand this.

00:02:40   If the choice is your phone spontaneously dying or just being very slow, I'll go with

00:02:46   very slow, but I say this from the position of not really had a phone that's gotten this

00:02:51   performance throttling, so maybe I don't really understand how unbelievably unbearable the

00:02:56   throttling is.

00:02:57   But regardless, 11.3 will add new features to show the battery health and recommend if

00:03:01   a battery needs to be serviced.

00:03:03   That'll be found in Settings, Battery, and are available for the iPhone 6 and later.

00:03:08   Furthermore, users can now see if the power management feature that dynamically manages

00:03:11   maximum performance to prevent unexpected shutdowns,

00:03:14   which was introduced in 10.2.1 is on,

00:03:17   and they can choose whether or not to turn it off.

00:03:19   This feature can be found in Settings Battery as well,

00:03:22   and is also available from the 6 and up.

00:03:25   - Yeah, so this is not a great fix to this problem

00:03:29   or solution to this need to users.

00:03:32   It is possible that they needed to do it this way

00:03:35   to have that off switch for some kind of legal or lawsuit

00:03:38   or regulatory compliance reason.

00:03:40   They've gotten a lot of crap for this

00:03:41   from a lot of different places,

00:03:42   a lot of different countries,

00:03:44   but just as a user experience,

00:03:46   having a switch to let your phone randomly shut down

00:03:50   seems very, an Apple-like and not a great experience,

00:03:54   but ultimately, I think,

00:03:56   and it seems like this is very much a like,

00:04:01   Steve Jobs, you're holding your iPhone 4 wrong

00:04:03   kind of response from Apple.

00:04:04   - You want a free bumper?

00:04:05   Fine, take a free bumper.

00:04:07   (laughing)

00:04:08   - We've heard it from a lot of people.

00:04:10   Why don't you just give everybody a case?

00:04:12   Okay, great.

00:04:16   Let's give everybody a case.

00:04:18   - Yeah, like their general response and tone

00:04:21   with this is not good.

00:04:23   That interview Tim Cook gave.

00:04:25   - I think it's better than the Steve Jobs tone,

00:04:26   don't you think?

00:04:27   'Cause he was actually pretty obnoxious and snarky

00:04:29   and everything, every communication I've seen about this

00:04:31   has been fairly magnanimous and understanding.

00:04:35   The feature itself may seem snarky,

00:04:36   but I don't think the communication has been

00:04:38   Steve Jobs level, you want a bumper, fine,

00:04:40   here's a free bumper.

00:04:41   - I thought the Tim Cook quote about it

00:04:44   in that interview a few days ago was pretty bad.

00:04:46   - Oh, people not understanding yet.

00:04:47   Tim Cook had a couple of statements to the media, but like--

00:04:51   - Honestly, Tim Cook should not talk to the media.

00:04:53   Like I really, he does, honestly, I'm serious.

00:04:57   He does not come off well in these kind of interviews

00:05:00   whenever he's asked anything of substance.

00:05:01   It does not come off well.

00:05:03   - Well, usually his problem is that he's just bland

00:05:05   and doesn't say anything, right?

00:05:07   but this is a rare case where he showed a little bit of teeth and was like,

00:05:10   I just think maybe people just didn't really understand or weren't paying

00:05:13   attention. It was just such BS. Like that's why he should not open his mouth.

00:05:16   But most of the time it's merely what he says has no new information and it's

00:05:20   just kind of platitudes, right? So the platitudes one isn't harmful.

00:05:23   And I think maybe that's actually a good way to communicate with the people in

00:05:27   those venues. But it's not like Apple fans, you know,

00:05:29   it's just like whoever's watching, you know, CNN or whatever,

00:05:33   whatever news network he's on at that moment.

00:05:35   I think that's a fine communication.

00:05:36   It's boring, we're not interested in it,

00:05:38   and he's not gonna say anything new.

00:05:40   The snark shows little personality,

00:05:41   but not when he's off base.

00:05:43   But I think that the strangest bit of communication,

00:05:45   this actually started in follow-up

00:05:47   as a story about Tim's communication.

00:05:49   It changed into now that we have the actual release notes

00:05:51   for the 11.3 Beta into a more concrete story.

00:05:55   But the original story was Tim Cook was on a news show,

00:05:58   and yeah, he did his normal platitudes

00:06:00   that he normally does,

00:06:00   just sort of speaking in generalities

00:06:03   about stuff that Close Apple followers

00:06:05   already knew. But then he mentioned something about being able to turn off the battery throttling.

00:06:09   And that's not what Apple's press release said, like way back when they talked about

00:06:12   this. The press release said, "Oh, we're going to have new battery information," and all

00:06:15   this stuff. But it didn't say anything about being able to turn it off. So it was like,

00:06:19   is he misremembering what they planned to do? Maybe they talked about having an off

00:06:23   switch and he's just misremembering it. So it's like, no, he's much more controlled than

00:06:26   that. But then he's essentially breaking Apple News on a random cable news channel. He pre-announced

00:06:34   features of the iOS 11.3 beta, like a couple days ahead of time, which is weird for Apple.

00:06:40   So the original story was going to be, "Is he misremembering, or is this the thing they're

00:06:43   going to do?" But now the story is, Tim Cook is breaking news about Apple on cable news

00:06:48   shows, which is weird.

00:06:49   Well, I mean, I think that's his prerogative.

00:06:51   Oh yeah, no, it's totally up, but it's definitely a change, and it makes me wonder, like, is

00:06:56   that like the new version of the controlled leak to the Wall Street Journal, where they

00:06:59   just send Tim out and tell him to say that?

00:07:01   - I mean, this is not the first time

00:07:02   that an Apple executive has broken some news

00:07:04   in an interview like this that seems pretty clearly

00:07:07   planned that way.

00:07:08   - I mean, minor news is not big news, but still.

00:07:11   - Honestly, that is minor news.

00:07:12   I mean, the big news was the problem at all,

00:07:15   how they're solving it in these various ways

00:07:17   is fairly small news.

00:07:18   But I do think, though, just going back

00:07:20   to the actual feature and solution here,

00:07:23   I don't think this is quite enough.

00:07:26   What this is basically saying is,

00:07:28   if this is happening to you,

00:07:30   we will now display that in this settings battery panel

00:07:32   that nobody ever knows about or goes to.

00:07:34   And we'll display it there and so you'll have to

00:07:37   check there to see if it's happening.

00:07:39   That's not good enough, 'cause most people

00:07:40   will never think to check there or won't know

00:07:42   how to check there or won't, you know,

00:07:44   they just think my phone is slow, I need to buy a new one.

00:07:48   So really, I think users need to be notified in some way

00:07:52   when their phone reaches a state in which

00:07:54   this setting is turned on for them.

00:07:56   And I tweeted this earlier, a lot of people misunderstood,

00:07:58   I wasn't clear enough.

00:08:00   I'm not saying that every time the CPU gets throttled,

00:08:03   they should get another notification.

00:08:05   - That would be a lot of dialogue boxes.

00:08:07   - Yeah, what I'm saying is that at some point,

00:08:11   when your phone has reached some kind of metric

00:08:13   as measured by the battery or whatever,

00:08:15   at some point, this setting gets turned on for you

00:08:18   without you knowing.

00:08:20   That needs to be a user notification when that happens.

00:08:23   - And it might be, to be clear,

00:08:24   we don't know that that's not happening.

00:08:26   The release notes just say that there's a setting.

00:08:28   For all we know, there is a notification

00:08:29   and there is a battery indicator in the status bar.

00:08:31   Those things could both be true.

00:08:32   They just might not merit mentioning here.

00:08:34   So the only way, unfortunately,

00:08:36   the only way we'll be able to find out,

00:08:37   unless there's a way you can do this in simulator,

00:08:39   is for someone to have a phone that's on the threshold

00:08:41   between like, they'll go to the battery setting screen

00:08:44   and they'll say, "Ooh, I'm right on the border

00:08:45   where it's gonna yell at me,"

00:08:46   if they show some kind of bar graph or something,

00:08:48   and then just abuse the phone

00:08:50   until it crosses that threshold

00:08:51   and see if you get an alert of any kind.

00:08:54   - And in a surprising stroke of good news

00:08:57   for John, your ancient cheese grater is running LCAP, is it not?

00:09:04   It is.

00:09:05   And you got a little present recently.

00:09:07   Tell me about this.

00:09:08   I didn't get it because I haven't installed it, but Meltdown inspector fixes have been

00:09:12   backported all the way back to LCAP10 and Sierra, and of course High Sierra, which is

00:09:18   I think standard.

00:09:19   What they usually do is they backport it to a few recent versions.

00:09:21   If you're much farther back from that, you don't get the fix.

00:09:24   I almost don't want to install the fix just so I can get that extra speed which I so desperately

00:09:28   need in my 10 year old computer.

00:09:30   Yeah, this will push you over the edge.

00:09:32   Yeah, but I haven't installed it yet.

00:09:34   But anyway, in case you were wondering, yes, the fix is back ported.

00:09:37   I already have the Safari update which I feel like is maybe just as important because the

00:09:41   main vector through which unknown software runs on my computer is probably the web browser.

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00:11:21   So we got some news over the last few days.

00:11:25   We've gotten some news about iOS 11.3, but we're going to talk about that a little later.

00:11:28   But perhaps more interestingly, he says with little confidence, the HomePod has been officially

00:11:35   officially announced.

00:11:36   It will start shipping on February 9th.

00:11:39   The pre-orders will open, or I guess it's not really pre-orders, it doesn't matter.

00:11:42   Anyway, the orders will open this coming Friday,

00:11:44   which at this point may have already happened

00:11:46   by the time you're listening to this.

00:11:48   And we don't really know a whole heck of a lot else.

00:11:52   - This is the kind of product that theoretically

00:11:54   I should be excited about.

00:11:56   Many of us, I think, should be excited about this.

00:11:58   But it just seems like it's had such a clumsy release cycle,

00:12:03   and we know so little about it,

00:12:06   that it's really hard to get excited about it

00:12:07   because it seems like it's coming out late

00:12:12   And some key features are not launching yet,

00:12:14   they're coming later this year or whatever.

00:12:17   And we still don't really know much about it.

00:12:20   There's still no reviews,

00:12:22   there's been no hands-on or anything.

00:12:26   There was a very brief press demo last summer at WWDC

00:12:29   when they announced it, but it was extremely limited

00:12:31   and there was no speech, it was just music playback.

00:12:34   So there's some really big question marks about this product

00:12:39   that we just don't know yet.

00:12:41   Now we could listen back to this in a few weeks

00:12:44   when people have this, and it's amazing.

00:12:47   And we could listen back to anything we say now

00:12:49   and be like, "Lol, they were so wrong, we were so wrong,

00:12:51   "I can't believe we all thought this product

00:12:53   "would be weird or suck."

00:12:55   You know, it could turn out amazing, we don't know yet.

00:12:57   But it's just weird that there's this product

00:13:01   that I think a lot of us thought would be

00:13:03   a major product launch that is kind of just like

00:13:05   stumbling out the door in this clumsy fashion

00:13:09   and it's gonna launch incomplete.

00:13:11   In its state on launch day,

00:13:13   there are so many missing features and limitations

00:13:16   that I think the potential market for it

00:13:19   is not gonna be that big.

00:13:21   Now over time, as they lift these limitations, we'll see.

00:13:24   It's probably gonna get popular eventually.

00:13:27   It might not, but I think the chances are more likely

00:13:30   than not that it will work long term.

00:13:32   It's just weird that it's launching

00:13:34   in such a clumsy fashion and in such an incomplete state

00:13:39   And I still question why it had to be announced last summer.

00:13:44   - I don't question it that much because

00:13:46   this is a market that Apple is late to.

00:13:51   It's other competitors.

00:13:52   Amazon Echo was obviously the first,

00:13:54   let's all talk to our cylinder.

00:13:55   And it was out there for a while

00:13:56   before Google launched its clone.

00:13:59   And now Google's been out for a while.

00:14:01   And finally, Apple handles it.

00:14:01   And those are the big three tech companies.

00:14:04   And Apple took the longest to decide,

00:14:06   yes, we're gonna make a cylinder that you talk to

00:14:09   that connects to our streaming music service.

00:14:12   And so everyone else has a big head start on them.

00:14:15   Everyone else was shipping.

00:14:16   A couple of companies have had multiple revisions

00:14:19   and multiple products and diversified their product lines.

00:14:21   Even Google has a big one and a little one now

00:14:24   and an even bigger one that sounds fancy.

00:14:26   So other companies have not just done the product

00:14:29   for longer, but have had more revisions.

00:14:31   And this is a case where it just seemed to me that Apple,

00:14:36   I mean, Apple is very often late to market, right?

00:14:38   But in this case, Apple, it seemed like it felt self-conscious, like,

00:14:41   we're late, but we want you to know that we are,

00:14:45   we do want to compete in an argument, but we're not ready yet.

00:14:48   So they had to like pre-announce it. Now I think they pre,

00:14:50   they didn't expect it to be this late. Right? So you make your bet. You're like,

00:14:54   oh, we can announce this now and we think it'll be ready. You know,

00:14:57   not that long from now, like within the window of like reasonableness.

00:15:00   But obviously they they've missed that window and it's pretty darn late at this

00:15:03   point. And you know,

00:15:04   how can it be late if they never told you exactly when it would be available,

00:15:07   just in terms of, practically speaking,

00:15:10   if you have such a limited pre-announcement of a product

00:15:13   and then say nothing about it for like six months,

00:15:17   that's not good timing, it's not good PR.

00:15:18   You wanna get people interested about a product

00:15:21   and slowly dole out news building up to a launch,

00:15:23   not show people barely anything

00:15:25   and then don't say anything about it for many, many months.

00:15:27   That's just bad PR.

00:15:28   So that's why we say, oh, it feels like it's late.

00:15:31   That if you had a choice,

00:15:32   that's not how you do a PR rollout.

00:15:35   So, you know, why did they announce it so early?

00:15:37   To me, my read on that is they felt pressure

00:15:42   to get their foot in the market ASAP,

00:15:46   put their quarter on the video game machine or whatever,

00:15:48   say, I've got next, right?

00:15:50   We're gonna be there and not just like in a vague way,

00:15:53   but here's the actual thing we're gonna ship.

00:15:55   It looks like this, it sounds like this,

00:15:57   it probably does other things, but don't ask us now, right?

00:16:00   And they had an opportunity to announce that,

00:16:04   And so they did.

00:16:06   And I think that is, you know, it's a sign,

00:16:08   it's an acknowledgement that Apple agrees with us

00:16:12   that they are behind and late in this market

00:16:15   versus a more confident Apple that could say,

00:16:17   yeah, other people have done stuff,

00:16:19   but we think all the solutions they've done are crappy

00:16:22   and we don't feel any pressure to tell you

00:16:24   that we're gonna enter this market.

00:16:26   We're gonna show you our awesome thing

00:16:27   when we're ready to see it.

00:16:28   It doesn't matter how late we are.

00:16:30   That's the other strategy that it could have taken

00:16:31   and they have as many other things,

00:16:33   but not with this, with this one they said,

00:16:34   "We really feel like we need to tell you

00:16:36   "that we're gonna be in this market with this thing."

00:16:37   So that is not a confident move.

00:16:40   That doesn't project confidence anyway.

00:16:43   And what they had to demo was not like,

00:16:47   they didn't have anything to say or demo

00:16:49   that knocked our socks off either.

00:16:51   So it was kind of weird.

00:16:52   And now that they're gonna roll this thing out,

00:16:55   it's like a major new product line

00:16:58   that will end up rolling out without Apple

00:17:00   ever having gone up on a stage and told us all the things

00:17:03   that this product can do.

00:17:05   'Cause they went up on a stage and told us

00:17:06   very limited things about this product,

00:17:09   specifically about the audio, but not much else.

00:17:12   And then many, many months pass,

00:17:14   and then here's the product, right?

00:17:17   And people will get, you know, reviews.

00:17:19   I'm sure there'll be reviews coming out of the thing

00:17:21   around lunchtime or whatever, but never did Apple go up

00:17:23   in any side of special press presentation or anything

00:17:25   and say, "Let's just run down everything about this."

00:17:27   They do it with all the phones, with all the iPads,

00:17:29   Even with most of the Macs, here's all the features, here's all the specs, here's all

00:17:33   the things about this thing, here's what it can do.

00:17:35   They never did that for this product, which is weird.

00:17:38   Even something like a hobby product like the Apple TV, they went up on stage and said,

00:17:43   here's Apple TV, you know, this is what it does, this is what it looks like, this is

00:17:47   how much it costs, it runs, you know, Mac OS 10.4 inside, don't tell anybody.

00:17:52   It's Mac OS 10, 10.4, I know, too many 10s.

00:17:58   didn't do that this product at all. So yeah, I'm kind of the same mind of Marco. This could

00:18:03   be awesome and everybody could love it. And in particular, if I'm trying to think of ways

00:18:07   that this product could be awesome, that we are underestimating right now, is potentially

00:18:14   just the hardware, the stuff that Apple has shown. They've shown like, oh, it's got speakers

00:18:18   and microphones and blah, blah, blah.

00:18:20   Well, and like their engineering in regards to audio and sound quality in recent years

00:18:27   has been awesome.

00:18:28   Like they have dramatically improved the speakers

00:18:31   in most of their products that have speakers.

00:18:34   - Including the phones.

00:18:35   - Yeah, including the phones.

00:18:35   Like they've really done a lot in the areas

00:18:39   of audio and speaker engineering recently.

00:18:41   So I have full confidence in their proclamations

00:18:45   that it is going to sound amazing,

00:18:46   that it is gonna be super advanced

00:18:48   in the way it measures a room

00:18:49   and bounces sound off of walls.

00:18:51   I bet it will sound amazing.

00:18:53   But that is just one aspect of this product

00:18:56   and there are so many other ones that either

00:18:59   sound kind of bad or that are just giant question marks.

00:19:03   - Yeah, and like the thing about this product is,

00:19:05   I'm trying to think of, you know,

00:19:07   it does this track with like the Apple TV.

00:19:09   The thing about the Apple TV is,

00:19:11   they didn't get the hardware right for a long time.

00:19:14   They took the wrong approach, the wrong OS,

00:19:16   the wrong size, you know, the really early one

00:19:18   was like a little bit too early.

00:19:19   The puck, I think they hit on with everybody else.

00:19:23   the better size and price for this kind of a product, then they took too long to

00:19:28   come up with 4k, but now that they've settled down like hardware wise it's

00:19:33   reasonable, especially now that they have frame rate matching more on

00:19:37   that in a little bit. With this product I feel like it's possible that they have

00:19:44   more or less gotten the hardware right on the first try. That the sound output

00:19:49   It looks impressive and can justify the price because it's got a lot of little speakers

00:19:56   and a lot of hardware to be able to do all the magic to make it sound good.

00:19:59   I think it also has a lot of microphones and it hopefully does a good job with them, which

00:20:04   is the other important part of this hardware.

00:20:07   It's taking a clear stand about what it's supposed to be, not having a screen of any

00:20:11   kind.

00:20:12   It's basically speakers and a microphone.

00:20:14   The software side is where we know they have gaps because here's the features that they

00:20:19   sort of talked about but aren't even going to ship until later, but it is possible that

00:20:23   Apple can essentially slowly catch up without actually revising this hardware but merely

00:20:28   by shipping regular software updates to make this thing more and more capable and improving

00:20:33   Siri and all the other stuff behind the scenes.

00:20:35   Like in other words, do you think after this ships there will be some kind of pressing

00:20:40   need for a revised HomePod?

00:20:42   I think this hardware could potentially last a long time.

00:20:45   They just have to update the software.

00:20:47   So that's not, it's not ideal, right?

00:20:48   But it does mean that if they can sell these things

00:20:53   and then improve them over time,

00:20:55   they can build up some loyalty by people,

00:20:57   yeah, I bought this product and it was limited

00:20:59   and now it gets better and better as I use it.

00:21:01   And a year from now, they could be selling

00:21:03   the quote unquote exact same HomePod

00:21:06   and it could be a way better product than it is now.

00:21:08   Because I don't think that there's some essential

00:21:10   hardware feature that this doesn't have

00:21:12   and especially if the audio is really good,

00:21:14   It could, you know, certainly it will have better sound

00:21:17   than like the $100 things like an Echo or a cheap Google Home.

00:21:20   Maybe it'll even have better sound

00:21:21   than an even more expensive Sonos.

00:21:23   It's just a matter of them getting

00:21:25   their software story together.

00:21:27   And they can do that, not at their leisure,

00:21:29   but they can do that without revising this product,

00:21:32   you know, essentially.

00:21:33   So I was gonna get one.

00:21:35   - I don't know, I was just about to say like,

00:21:37   I'm sure knowing me, I will end up buying one

00:21:41   because this is the moment as always,

00:21:42   I say, oh, I don't really think it's interesting.

00:21:44   - You have to, because we all have cylinders but you.

00:21:46   So you're cylinderless, so you need to,

00:21:48   we'll cover the whole ecosystem.

00:21:49   Mark, I'll have Amazon, I'll have Google,

00:21:50   and you'll have Apple.

00:21:51   - Also, until I have a way to interact with it

00:21:55   as a developer, I don't think I'm gonna buy one.

00:21:58   Because there's not a place in my life

00:22:00   where this makes sense right now.

00:22:02   And of course that might change,

00:22:04   but right now, given its current limitations,

00:22:08   one of the big things is, yeah,

00:22:10   maybe you can replace your TV's speakers with it.

00:22:13   well you can't have a stereo pair yet, right?

00:22:16   So like, because AirPlay 2,

00:22:17   which we'll get to in a little while,

00:22:19   AirPlay 2 is not yet shipping.

00:22:20   So one of the things you can't do

00:22:22   is have a stereo pair of these things

00:22:24   acting as two stereo speakers.

00:22:26   So that rules out a lot of that already.

00:22:29   And it also, there's no line in.

00:22:32   Like the only way you can receive audio

00:22:34   is either via Siri playing things from Apple Music

00:22:38   or via AirPlay, and right now just AirPlay 1,

00:22:41   which has some limitations and everything.

00:22:43   But, and one limitation by the way,

00:22:44   is a fixed two second latency.

00:22:47   So, even if you do some kind of crazy thing

00:22:49   where you have something beaming other audio,

00:22:51   like from your other home theater components,

00:22:53   via some kind of airplay bridge to this thing,

00:22:55   the latency would be too high,

00:22:57   even for TVs to compensate for it.

00:22:58   So, there's basically no good way

00:23:01   to get the rest of your audio from your TV to this.

00:23:06   The Apple TV can allegedly airplay to it

00:23:09   and use it as speakers,

00:23:10   and that's probably gonna be nice for,

00:23:12   you know, AirPlay 2, when that comes out,

00:23:13   that's gonna be low latency and everything.

00:23:15   But that's, so you could do it if the only input

00:23:19   that, to your TV, like if the only source of sound

00:23:21   that you wanna hear from this is an Apple TV,

00:23:24   you could theoretically have that kind of setup.

00:23:27   But if you have anything else, a game console,

00:23:29   other streaming boxes, a DVD player, a Blu-ray player,

00:23:32   like if you have anything else that you wanna plug into this

00:23:35   you're out of luck.

00:23:36   A Sonos Connect bridge maybe.

00:23:38   But it's like--

00:23:39   - Do people use the competing devices as this?

00:23:40   'cause I would never think about playing my TV through this.

00:23:43   I also wouldn't think about playing my TV

00:23:44   through an Amazon Echo or through a Google Home,

00:23:47   even the big speaker one.

00:23:49   I also wouldn't play my TV

00:23:50   through any of the little Sonos things.

00:23:52   Yeah, Sonos makes a soundbar that I play my TV through.

00:23:55   - Sonos makes a soundbar, and the soundbar

00:23:57   can also use the little Sonos speakers as satellite speakers.

00:24:01   So you can't, and people do that.

00:24:03   So Sonos has solutions to this.

00:24:06   Other, and like, I feel, and Amazon and Google Home,

00:24:08   I feel like the kind of speakers that they sell in volume

00:24:12   don't really lend themselves to this.

00:24:14   They're too small, but it doesn't really matter

00:24:16   'cause they're more made for a kitchen or a counter

00:24:18   or something like that.

00:24:19   But if you're gonna have a larger and more expensive speaker

00:24:22   that focuses on sound quality,

00:24:24   one of the big places you'd put it is for your TV.

00:24:28   You'd replace the speakers for your TV.

00:24:30   - This isn't that much bigger though.

00:24:32   - Well. - It's not that.

00:24:33   Like I'd say it's in between,

00:24:34   I don't even think it's as big as the Google big speaker,

00:24:36   whatever they call that one,

00:24:37   big rectangular Google one. I think it's smaller than that. Like, I'm trying to recall seeing

00:24:42   a WWDC and I think I was struck by how much smaller it was than I thought. Certainly bigger

00:24:46   than an Echo and also bigger than the traditional little Google Home thing, not the Mini but

00:24:53   the regular size one. But I don't think it's as big as the Sonos Play 5. I don't know.

00:24:59   When Casey gets his, we'll ask him to measure it.

00:25:02   - Regardless, so like, for the market they're selling to,

00:25:05   which is sound quality and middle,

00:25:08   kind of the middle of the price range there,

00:25:10   I think a lot of people would want it

00:25:13   to be that home theater role and it can't do that.

00:25:16   So, again, that limits the market.

00:25:18   It also limits the market that it only supports Apple Music

00:25:20   and not other streaming services so far.

00:25:23   And other streaming services can airplay to it,

00:25:25   but so far they won't be able to do Siri.

00:25:27   And now I kind of wonder if I'm ever gonna get

00:25:30   overcast Siri intents because anything that would enable

00:25:34   overcast would also enable Spotify,

00:25:35   and maybe they don't want that for the HomePod.

00:25:37   Maybe they wanna sell the HomePod only for Apple Music

00:25:39   and lock that together to boost the sales of Apple Music.

00:25:43   - This is like the, we talked about this before

00:25:45   with the cylinders and stuff, but this is like

00:25:47   the omnivorous box TV problem all over again.

00:25:50   What consumers want is a speaker,

00:25:52   like some kind of speaker thing that they buy

00:25:55   that they can talk to that can also play

00:25:58   any audio from anywhere, right?

00:26:00   And nobody offers that.

00:26:03   It's all a bunch of islands, you know.

00:26:06   Some of them come close,

00:26:07   like I think the Sonos can play a lot of stuff,

00:26:08   but can it do Apple Music by voice command?

00:26:11   I don't know.

00:26:12   - Yes, oh wait, no, it can do Apple Music.

00:26:15   I don't think it can do it by voice command yet.

00:26:17   - Yeah.

00:26:18   - It's a weird integration.

00:26:19   The Sonos product has weird limits.

00:26:21   - But Sonos is getting closer

00:26:22   because Sonos doesn't have a dog

00:26:23   in the streaming service fight.

00:26:25   So like whatever, we'll play Amazon service,

00:26:26   we'll play Google Play Music,

00:26:27   play Apple Music if all those companies will let us.

00:26:30   But everybody else has their own preferred streaming service and is at varying degrees

00:26:34   restrictive, you know, or they're not letting each other play in each other's stuff.

00:26:38   So it's not like you just pick the speaker you like best, right?

00:26:41   And say, "Oh, I'm just going to pick this speaker.

00:26:42   It looks the best and it sounds the best," which would be good for Apple.

00:26:45   Like if Apple's going to compete on audio, they could say, "Look, we have the best sounding

00:26:49   speaker, the best balance of speaker performance and price, $350 for something that sounds

00:26:54   better than a $500 Sonos.

00:26:55   Buy it."

00:26:56   But if it also comes with, "Oh, but the only things you can hear over it are this very,

00:27:01   very limited set of things we allow you to hear.

00:27:03   No line-in and stuff like that."

00:27:06   Although, honestly, I still think that it's not an intended purpose for this thing to

00:27:10   be a TV speaker, but a stereo speaker like, "Hey, this is the sound system for my small

00:27:13   apartment and I can play my music on it."

00:27:16   Well, that's the thing.

00:27:17   If they're going to promote it as audio quality, you can't connect a CD player or a…

00:27:23   You can't even click your record player.

00:27:25   Yeah.

00:27:26   - If this is truly going to appeal to people

00:27:29   who can drop $350 on a speaker who wants something cool

00:27:32   and nice and hip for a part of their home

00:27:34   that isn't their TV, a lot of people would want

00:27:36   to connect a vinyl player to it.

00:27:38   Or people want to connect other--

00:27:39   - You're still doing vinyl player,

00:27:41   I can't pay for the club if you're doing it as a joke.

00:27:42   I think you're not.

00:27:43   - Sorry, a turn player.

00:27:44   - A turn table, oh my god, Marco.

00:27:48   - This week at Marco's Vinyl Arc.

00:27:50   'Cause they don't have corners, so anyway.

00:27:53   (laughs)

00:27:56   People wanna connect other components

00:28:00   to really good speakers.

00:28:03   Sure, not all people, but what I'm saying is basically

00:28:06   this market is being limited by the limitations of this

00:28:10   device, I think pretty severely.

00:28:12   I think this device is very boxed in right now

00:28:15   with its limitations.

00:28:17   It's appealing to people who like to listen to

00:28:19   streaming music via voice, but only Apple Music,

00:28:22   And the voice service is probably gonna be

00:28:23   a little bit iffy because that's how Siri has been.

00:28:27   So it's gonna be probably a mediocre voice service.

00:28:30   It's not gonna have a lot of integrations

00:28:32   with other things that we tend to use these for,

00:28:34   like various smart home devices and everything.

00:28:37   You'll have some, but it's not gonna have

00:28:39   as much as an Echo or things like that.

00:28:41   It's not gonna have almost any third party services

00:28:45   that can integrate with it.

00:28:46   Anything you ask it to do that is not playing music

00:28:49   is probably going to fail mysteriously in weird ways

00:28:51   'cause that's how Siri tends to operate.

00:28:53   Even if you get it just for Apple Music

00:28:55   or for Air Playing stuff too,

00:28:56   which is going to be clumsy for the next six months or so,

00:28:59   this is for people who are okay spending

00:29:01   that amount of money on it,

00:29:02   who don't already have other kinds of speakers

00:29:05   that also sound good,

00:29:07   and who don't want a stereo pair,

00:29:08   'cause it can't stereo pair yet.

00:29:10   So it's like, you care about sound quality,

00:29:11   but not enough to have a stereo pair.

00:29:14   And so again, it's just more and more boxing in,

00:29:17   boxing it in, boxing it in, boxing it in.

00:29:18   So I think it's gonna start out pretty slowly.

00:29:22   And maybe in a year it'll have all these features

00:29:24   and it'll be much better and maybe there'll be

00:29:26   another model that's a different price or a different size

00:29:28   or something that would expand the market a little bit more.

00:29:31   But I think it's gonna have a really slow start.

00:29:35   - Yeah, some of the other Apple-specific features

00:29:37   are like, all right, so granted we don't have

00:29:38   all that third-party stuff, but what can it do

00:29:40   that no other device can do aside from, you know,

00:29:41   obviously very tight integration with Apple Music

00:29:43   and of course Siri.

00:29:44   Handing off your phone call to the HomePod

00:29:47   apparently something else you can do, obviously from your iPhone only, but if you're on a

00:29:51   phone call that you start on your iPhone and you come into the house and you want to hand

00:29:54   it off to the iPod for a speakerphone conversation, which I think is a good application of a good

00:29:59   speaker and a good set of microphones so you can wander around, talk and pace like an important

00:30:04   executive as you discuss things.

00:30:06   That's something other devices don't have.

00:30:09   And of course they're playing up the privacy angle of like, we're not going to upload every

00:30:12   single thing you say to our servers and keep it there forever and all that business.

00:30:16   And they do try to tout that anyone can talk to it and that it can play things from Apple

00:30:22   Music even if you're not there, which is something so absurd that I wouldn't even think about

00:30:27   it until Apple reassured me that it's not the case.

00:30:29   Like, "Oh, I guess they could have done that.

00:30:30   Boy, that would have been dumb, but they're not."

00:30:32   Well, but there is a big question mark on that, though.

00:30:34   It can play Apple Music when you're not there, but apparently it does a lot of the Siri processing

00:30:38   on the phone, on the phone that's paired to it, and it's only one person's phone, of

00:30:42   course.

00:30:43   So the question is, how much can it do if that phone,

00:30:46   like suppose the phone that's paired to it

00:30:48   is your spouse's phone, and your spouse leaves the house.

00:30:51   How much does this function?

00:30:53   We don't know.

00:30:54   - Yeah, there's also the question that a lot of people had

00:30:56   of people like me who are not yet

00:30:58   in the streaming music world,

00:31:00   but who have their own music collections.

00:31:01   So I have my music collection on my phone,

00:31:04   which consists of things ripped from CDs,

00:31:06   plus things purchased from iTunes.

00:31:08   My wife has her collection, my kids have their collections.

00:31:10   - I have my giant fish collection.

00:31:11   What if you want to play something from one of those collections that doesn't exist on Apple music?

00:31:16   Is there any mechanism for that?

00:31:17   I think your only option is to airplay it from iTunes or your phone, but you can't the home pod can't call it up

00:31:23   by a voice right but Apple in my case since I'm an iTunes match subscriber

00:31:27   Apple has all of my music in the cloud and it knows it belongs to me

00:31:31   But I'm pretty sure the home pod has no idea that I'm talking to it like that that feature is only recently

00:31:35   You're in the services division. That's that's the world of walls and silos. That's like

00:31:41   Your app, your iTunes match silo is over there rotting in the corner with really big thick walls

00:31:46   nobody can get into so they built this new silo over here for rap music and other stuff and God knows what's gonna be

00:31:50   next and it's you know, don't expect any of this stuff to talk to each other.

00:31:54   Yeah, so but you know, we don't know what all the limitations are, but it seems like there's a lot of them

00:31:59   but I still keep coming back to if they got the hardware right and of all all the speakers and the microphones are all great

00:32:05   there's no reason they can't knock down these limitations one by one and eventually have a

00:32:09   competitive product. And I keep comparing it to Apple TV because they didn't have the choice with

00:32:12   Apple TV. They got the hardware so wrong in the beginning. It took them a long time to get it

00:32:16   right. And now I feel like they're finally at the, you know, the fat part of the curve with Apple TV,

00:32:22   where they can start knocking down the software features and, you know, becoming competitive. Yes,

00:32:26   they're premium price, but now they have some, you know, they have 4K support. They have, you know,

00:32:33   features that video files care about, like the frame rate matching. They have an application

00:32:37   ecosystem, you know, they're improving in that area. And this HomePod, like best case scenario,

00:32:44   it launches, it sounds really good, but it's super limited and not a lot of people buy it.

00:32:48   And then over the course of the next year, all they do is make the software better.

00:32:53   And, you know, it might take a while, like how long did it take, you know, Google Home just,

00:32:58   I think, last year or so, got the feature where it understands that there are different people

00:33:02   talking to it and can understand who that person is. Hopefully it won't take

00:33:08   Apple as long as it took Google to do that. But I see potential as

00:33:14   long as the hardware is right. But all that said, I'm not running out to buy

00:33:17   this hardware. Only Casey is. So, you know, a lot of people are gonna wait

00:33:21   until they have the complete story and not just buy it based on the promise.

00:33:25   As they should. So I've been thinking about this a little bit over the last

00:33:30   couple of days since this news is broken and I am not ordering a home pod

00:33:34   immediately. I will probably, knowing me, order one not too long after immediately

00:33:38   because the FOMO will get to me. But I think the thing that appeals to me in

00:33:44   principle is that I do trust Apple to make really clever and good choices with

00:33:51   regard to audio fidelity. And although I am perfectly happy listening to music or

00:33:56   podcasts on speakers that are truly and utterly terrible. That doesn't mean I

00:34:01   don't also appreciate some really really great speakers as well. And what I have

00:34:07   in our home theater is not great. It is sufficient. I don't even know what it is.

00:34:11   It was like a Denon, Denon, whatever it's called, like home theater in a box from

00:34:15   probably 10 plus years ago. It is sufficient. But I have no doubt that one

00:34:21   or particularly a pair of home pods would be considerably better sounding. And that would be

00:34:29   appealing to me, but knowing that I won't be able to play Spotify easily without air playing, to

00:34:35   Marco's point, knowing I won't be able to say, "Hey, Dingus, can you play me such and such song by

00:34:42   such and such artists without being an Apple Music subscriber, which I'm not," like, all of these

00:34:47   things make it not terribly appealing. And I don't also, I don't have anything connected

00:34:51   to HomeKit right now. I have several devices that I could connect to HomeKit via $50 bridges,

00:34:58   but I have nothing that's natively connecting to HomeKit at the moment.

00:35:01   So...

00:35:02   I have a few. You're missing nothing.

00:35:03   Well, okay, fair enough. I don't really... Sitting here now, and this is when we'll play

00:35:08   this back, you know, Marc will do the "diddle-doo, diddle-doo" in like three weeks when I say

00:35:12   I just bought one. But sitting here now, I don't really see any draw other than just

00:35:19   getting a really great set of speakers. And that definitely intrigues me, and it's definitely

00:35:24   interesting. But I have a sufficient set of speakers that's zero dollars because we bought

00:35:30   them ten years ago. Actually, I think they were a gift. But anyways, we already have

00:35:34   them, I don't know that one $350 speaker is going to sound better, enough better to justify

00:35:42   it than our "free" speakers that we have now.

00:35:45   So I'm curious to see what real world people say after these are in the wild, but I don't

00:35:51   know.

00:35:52   I think the reviews would have to be pretty stellar for me to start saying, "Oh wow, I

00:35:55   really screwed up on this one as with every other Apple product.

00:35:57   I need one."

00:35:58   Let me reiterate one last time.

00:36:00   Do not connect this to your television.

00:36:01   It is an inappropriate application.

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00:37:41   - We have some news, as I've been alluding to for a while,

00:37:47   for iOS 11.3.

00:37:49   So in a slightly surprising move,

00:37:52   Apple has made a kind of sort of PR site.

00:37:56   It's actually just a news article,

00:37:58   but it's almost like a mini site about iOS 11.3.

00:38:02   So the headline is, "Major Updates to ARKit,

00:38:05   Messages and More Coming this Spring."

00:38:08   And they start off by telling us,

00:38:09   "We're getting a lion animoji.

00:38:12   We're getting a dragon.

00:38:13   We're getting a skull."

00:38:15   And I thought there was one other.

00:38:16   What am I forgetting? - Is the dragon an emoji?

00:38:17   This is my problem of not knowing

00:38:18   what the plural of an emoji.

00:38:20   Including new animoji.

00:38:21   >> Right.

00:38:22   Does that mean more than one?

00:38:23   >> Four new.

00:38:24   iOS 11.3 includes four new Animoji.

00:38:26   Giving iOS -- excuse me, iPhone 10 users the ability to express themselves as lion, bear,

00:38:31   dragon or skull.

00:38:32   >> Oh, I see it later in the later section.

00:38:35   The lion is up top.

00:38:36   I see.

00:38:37   Okay.

00:38:38   Yeah, that's the most important new feature as far as I'm aware for most people.

00:38:42   >> I know you're probably snarking.

00:38:44   And the thing is I actually really do still like Animoji, but that being said, I haven't

00:38:49   sent or received an animoji in like a month or two.

00:38:52   - You just like knowing that they exist.

00:38:54   - Yeah, yeah, they're cute.

00:38:56   They're cute in their little animoji drawer.

00:38:57   They're waiting for me if I need them.

00:38:59   No, I don't know, I was thinking about it

00:39:00   even before this announcement that I really do think

00:39:03   it's cute and clever, but I don't often find myself

00:39:06   in a position that A, it's not socially awkward

00:39:09   to create and send one, and B, that I even think

00:39:12   to do it in the first place.

00:39:13   I really do think it's a good idea.

00:39:15   I don't fault them for the idea,

00:39:16   and I like that they're adding more animoji.

00:39:18   And in fact, I think I tweeted a while back that it would be cool if they had seasonal

00:39:22   ones.

00:39:23   Like, you could only do Santa when it's Christmas time or something along those lines.

00:39:26   And then it goes back in the Disney vault.

00:39:28   You're a terrible person.

00:39:29   Yeah, seriously!

00:39:30   I mean, I hate the Disney vault, but I do think it would be kind of cool.

00:39:35   But anyways, I'm not using Animoji in that kind of...

00:39:38   It's a little bit sad.

00:39:39   Do you show them the deck one?

00:39:40   That's a new audience for your Animoji.

00:39:42   He does get a kick out of them.

00:39:43   Actually, just the other day, he asked me if I could show him the video of the fox singing,

00:39:48   which is I think the Bohemian Rhapsody video

00:39:51   that had come out, like one of the first karaoke ones.

00:39:55   He really likes watching that,

00:39:57   and so he had had me pull that up on YouTube

00:40:01   just a day or two ago.

00:40:02   But anyway, also new in 11.3, ARKit,

00:40:05   which apparently is now understanding

00:40:06   what a vertical surface is, which, no snark,

00:40:09   I guess is a big deal.

00:40:11   I don't really use ARKit for anything.

00:40:13   - That's actually, being able to recognize

00:40:16   vertical surfaces in addition to horizontal

00:40:18   and having some other improvements

00:40:19   in the kind of surfaces they can recognize

00:40:21   and how it just, it broadens the applications of it,

00:40:24   basically, like before it's like, all right,

00:40:25   find a big flat table or the floor or something

00:40:29   and then you can do this cool thing.

00:40:31   And now you can do cool things with walls and other,

00:40:33   like so it just, it broadens the possible applications

00:40:37   you can make and it improves existing, excuse me,

00:40:41   applications or it gives them the chance to be improved.

00:40:44   And there's other improvements to ARKit too, but I'm not really qualified to recognize

00:40:48   what's good about them.

00:40:49   But it's significantly improved.

00:40:51   >> But the main, I think the main story around ARKit is that ARKit was their first try at

00:40:57   this and it was pretty impressive out of the gate.

00:40:59   Like we all tried it and it worked I think better than most of us had any right to expect,

00:41:03   especially if you have tried any of the previous sort of academic type things and seen what

00:41:07   they can do.

00:41:08   This was a commercial product that ran on everybody's phones that worked surprisingly

00:41:11   well and it hasn't been that long and they've significantly enhanced it so I feel like the

00:41:17   ARKit team is doing well.

00:41:20   Their initial release was good and they're not even waiting to WWDC for new features

00:41:25   like this because like Marcus said, I think walls is a significant new feature.

00:41:29   And there have been applications, unlike perhaps Animoji which maybe you'll get bored by, the

00:41:35   applications that you would think you could build with ARKit like a thing to try furniture

00:41:39   in your room, like IKEA has an app like that, and guess what?

00:41:43   It does what they say it does surprisingly well for a thing that just runs on your phone

00:41:49   and doesn't require this crazy rig with five cameras slapped together by some PhD student.

00:41:54   So I'm very impressed with ARKit, and I'm impressed that they keep getting better.

00:41:59   All right, what else is in this?

00:42:03   Messages things?

00:42:04   Messages and iCloud is back!

00:42:06   Yeah, this is unexpected.

00:42:07   - It's connected, yeah.

00:42:09   Unexpected, but very welcome, assuming that it works.

00:42:12   I haven't actually tried it yet, have you guys?

00:42:13   - No.

00:42:14   - Is it actually in this beta?

00:42:16   Some things aren't in this beta,

00:42:17   is the animoji not in this beta?

00:42:18   - I think it is in the beta, but it's kind of--

00:42:20   - Oh, no, the battery's not in this beta.

00:42:21   - Yeah, the battery's not in this beta.

00:42:22   The messages on iCloud, I think,

00:42:24   I know it's prompting people to enable it,

00:42:26   so I think it is in the beta, but it's,

00:42:29   like for me, personally, I'm not gonna have much use

00:42:31   for this until it also works with my Mac,

00:42:35   so that's the big question mark for me,

00:42:37   And also, if there's any hint that it doesn't quite work,

00:42:41   that it isn't fully baked yet,

00:42:43   then I might be afraid to turn it on for a little while.

00:42:45   But they did take so long to do it that I'm confident

00:42:49   that they were probably really conservative about this,

00:42:52   'cause it's so important to get that right.

00:42:54   So it's probably gonna work fine.

00:42:56   - Yeah, but word of warning to everybody.

00:42:58   When you're running beta software,

00:43:00   this is the reason I have a whole set of other Apple IDs

00:43:03   that are not my Apple IDs

00:43:04   when I was doing Mac OS X reviews.

00:43:07   When you're running betas and there's

00:43:09   some feature that has cloud integration, especially

00:43:11   if it wants to take some existing set of data

00:43:15   and bring it to the cloud or convert it from one cloud

00:43:18   backend to another, they're betas.

00:43:22   They're not done.

00:43:23   They might have bugs.

00:43:24   But that's your non-beta data.

00:43:27   That's your real messages and stuff.

00:43:29   So if you don't want your non-beta data

00:43:32   to be potentially hosed--

00:43:33   And you can't restore that.

00:43:35   Like if something goes wrong with the phone,

00:43:37   you can restore the phone back to an old version.

00:43:39   You can't restore your data in iCloud back to an old version.

00:43:43   Yeah, especially if it gets scrambled or deleted or hosed

00:43:47   in some way.

00:43:48   So be very careful.

00:43:49   I know you're probably excited, like, oh,

00:43:51   I want to try out this new feature or whatever.

00:43:53   But beta is not done.

00:43:56   And yeah, so I said whenever I would test beta OSes

00:43:58   and do reviews, whole separate world of data,

00:44:01   which it was free to completely hose.

00:44:04   And sometimes it did.

00:44:05   And sometimes I had to wipe all my data

00:44:06   and reenter a bunch of fake data for it or whatever.

00:44:10   So beware.

00:44:11   But anyway, it looks like that feature is back

00:44:13   after basically entirely disappearing from their website.

00:44:16   Now it's back.

00:44:16   And like Marco, it really doesn't fulfill its promise

00:44:20   for me until it has a Mac equivalent,

00:44:22   which I'm assuming it will eventually,

00:44:24   but I'm glad it's not waiting until iOS 12.

00:44:26   Put it that way.

00:44:27   - What is this really?

00:44:28   But what does it buy me, this message in the cloud?

00:44:30   'cause I still sort of get everything coming in

00:44:34   kind of obnoxiously, you know what I mean?

00:44:36   Like when I start a Mac--

00:44:37   - You're a lucky person.

00:44:39   - Yeah, I mean, so basically what it buys you is

00:44:43   it should, in theory, first of all,

00:44:45   it should fix a lot of the inconsistencies people see.

00:44:48   So it's syncing the messages with iCloud

00:44:50   rather than depending on this crazy

00:44:53   key generation sharing thing between different computers.

00:44:57   The way it works security-wise is really complicated

00:45:00   and pretty impressive, but unfortunately,

00:45:02   creates a lot of bugs in practice that cause people

00:45:05   to have things like messages appearing on all but one device

00:45:09   or messages appearing in different orders

00:45:10   on different devices and things like that.

00:45:13   This should, if done correctly and if done well,

00:45:18   this should make your messages the same

00:45:20   on all your devices.

00:45:21   And it also brings additional benefits of things like

00:45:26   if you set up a brand new Mac from scratch, for instance,

00:45:30   and you log into iMessage,

00:45:31   you don't get all the old messages.

00:45:34   Also, if you delete a conversation somewhere,

00:45:37   like if you get spam and you delete it in one place,

00:45:39   it doesn't get deleted on all the other devices.

00:45:41   You have to delete conversations in every place separately.

00:45:45   So there's a lot of big and small benefits to this

00:45:49   if it works correctly and completely.

00:45:52   That is a big if, but if they can pull it off,

00:45:56   the benefits are pretty big.

00:45:57   - Yeah, and what I think of this is aligning messages

00:46:01   with the mental model I've always had in my head

00:46:03   about messages, that there is one conversation

00:46:06   that I participate in from different devices,

00:46:09   but it's always one conversation, right?

00:46:12   In the same way that our show notes document,

00:46:15   it's one show notes document, I can edit it on my phone,

00:46:18   I can edit it on my iPad, I can edit it on my Mac at work,

00:46:20   I can edit it on my Mac at home,

00:46:21   and you guys can all do the same

00:46:22   from whatever devices you have, but wherever I go,

00:46:25   the document looks like a document.

00:46:27   That's how I, my mental model of iMessage conversations.

00:46:30   I'm conversing with the person,

00:46:32   and no matter where I converse with them,

00:46:33   the conversation is the conversation.

00:46:35   So it's jarring to me,

00:46:36   like it would be jarring to me,

00:46:37   like the new Mac setup, to set up a new Mac

00:46:39   and not see that conversation at all.

00:46:41   Or to go to my Mac at work

00:46:43   and not see a bunch of messages

00:46:45   that I had sent previously on my phone

00:46:46   'cause my Mac was asleep during that time

00:46:48   and they didn't propagate or whatever.

00:46:49   Now, people who don't have these problems

00:46:51   and everything's in sync,

00:46:52   if you limit the number of places you converse

00:46:56   and or if your device is always online at the same time to accept the

00:47:01   propagations and all the propagations work then maybe you won't notice that

00:47:04   but I think that's the mental model most people have that it is

00:47:08   that it is a conversation and it's the same conversation everywhere so that's

00:47:11   the promise of this one more feature by the way that Apple touts is actually the

00:47:14   first bullet point on their little screen is

00:47:16   free up space on your iPhone by keeping photos and other attachments in iCloud

00:47:21   which right now like you'd be surprised at how much space your

00:47:24   messages thing takes up if you go to this, you know, because people send you videos and they send you photos and you don't want

00:47:30   to delete things because they're cute and maybe something sometimes you save them to your photo library or whatever and

00:47:34   one of the prompts for the the iOS storage screen like hey if you want to save some space you can delete small messages be

00:47:40   Like I don't want to delete all that stuff

00:47:41   Well now apparently it will take the big attachments and put them in iCloud and I guess only when you scroll back to them

00:47:47   Will it download them on demand or something? So anything that frees up space on our phone by using cloud storage

00:47:52   that we're already paying for is good,

00:47:53   so that's another potential advantage.

00:47:55   So that doesn't speak to the mental model, but it's good.

00:47:58   - That's a huge advantage in practice.

00:48:00   Lots of people have like massive, you know,

00:48:02   multi-gig message archives. - Yeah, multi-gig messages.

00:48:05   - That are just sitting there, taking up space

00:48:06   in their phone that they don't want to delete.

00:48:09   The upside of this is great, you'll have this option,

00:48:12   iCloud, to store these things in,

00:48:13   to free up space in your phone,

00:48:14   so you won't be always running out of space.

00:48:16   The downside is Apple's still pretty stingy

00:48:19   with iCloud storage, so.

00:48:21   - You're gonna need one of the paid plans

00:48:23   and possibly even one of the larger plans.

00:48:26   So that is going to make this hurt for a lot of people.

00:48:30   But I think at this point,

00:48:32   if you want a good experience using Apple devices,

00:48:38   you're gonna have to just factor in the price

00:48:40   of a small to mid-sized iCloud storage plan at least.

00:48:43   As when you're deciding whether to have an iPhone,

00:48:47   you just plan for this because in reality,

00:48:50   you're going to need something beyond the free

00:48:54   five megabytes of space they give you.

00:48:56   And that was a joke, not misremembering the unit.

00:48:59   - It feels like five megabytes though.

00:49:01   - Right, it does, right?

00:49:02   - It might as well be.

00:49:03   - It might as well be five kilobytes.

00:49:05   In this day and age, with the amount of stuff

00:49:07   that's stored in iCloud, that is kind of insulting.

00:49:10   But at this point, I'm also,

00:49:13   I've given up on trying to wish and hope

00:49:16   that Apple's gonna raise the free limit on iCloud

00:49:19   and make the plans all bigger and super price competitive.

00:49:22   Like, no, they're not going to.

00:49:23   They're making a ton of money the way it is now.

00:49:25   They're not gonna change that.

00:49:26   So, oh well, you factor it in as the cost

00:49:29   of having these devices that if you're going to have this

00:49:31   and you want the full experience of having the luxury

00:49:34   of iCloud doing all these things for you

00:49:35   and doing backups and everything else,

00:49:37   you're gonna have to pay for an iCloud plan

00:49:38   and that's just part of it.

00:49:39   - And by the way, one of my tips for general happiness

00:49:42   of using iOS things is, and this is a problem

00:49:45   a lot of people have, like, I'm not paying

00:49:46   for iCloud storage, which I understand.

00:49:48   It's expensive, as Marco said.

00:49:49   It's not as competitive as it should be,

00:49:52   and they should give you more, and it should be cheaper.

00:49:54   But in the grand scheme of things,

00:49:57   it doesn't cost that much money to get more storage.

00:50:00   And it will-- the amount of improvement to your computing

00:50:05   life that you'll get for $10 a month of actually just paying

00:50:08   for iCloud storage, it's well worth the $10 a month.

00:50:11   Well, as far as I'm concerned, well worth it,

00:50:13   because I hate having to deal with storage problems

00:50:16   and running out of room and trying to manage things.

00:50:18   And like, you know, especially with things like photos,

00:50:21   if you use the photos in the cloud feature,

00:50:22   you're not gonna delete your photos.

00:50:23   What are you gonna do when you run out of storage?

00:50:25   You're just gonna, you know, complain and grind your teeth.

00:50:28   It's like, just pay for the storage.

00:50:30   I know it's bad.

00:50:31   And with the family plan, by the way,

00:50:32   now that you can pay for storage for your whole family,

00:50:34   if you have a family and they all have devices,

00:50:36   the family plan is another good way

00:50:38   to not have to have stupid individual bills

00:50:40   for like your kid's iCloud backup

00:50:42   and your other kid's iCloud backup

00:50:44   and your spouse's iCloud backup.

00:50:45   Now you can do one bill and that will further encourage you to get the big plan for the

00:50:50   whole family.

00:50:52   And yes it costs money but $10 a month for someone who can afford Apple devices is not

00:50:57   that much.

00:50:58   It will really improve your life.

00:51:00   I think it's just mostly a mental barrier.

00:51:02   People just don't want to pay for it in the same way they don't want to pay for applications.

00:51:05   But overcome that hurdle.

00:51:07   I would put it this way.

00:51:08   For people who do tech support for their families, just buy your parents.

00:51:14   Don't tell them you're doing it, but just buy them.

00:51:17   Pay them the $10 a month.

00:51:18   Secretly pay for their storage plan.

00:51:21   That is another great investment of your money.

00:51:23   The amount of aggravation you have doing tech support in your parents if you just secretly

00:51:26   pay for the one terabyte storage plan and put them in a family together and pay for

00:51:31   their storage plan.

00:51:33   Enable iCloud backup on all their devices.

00:51:35   Just don't even tell them.

00:51:36   Just pay for it all.

00:51:37   Just do it yourself.

00:51:38   It will improve everybody's life.

00:51:39   Oh, yeah.

00:51:40   because we always advise people doing that

00:51:42   on their parents' computers to install like Backblaze

00:51:45   or your cloud backup of choice.

00:51:47   - And then just pay for it for them.

00:51:48   - Yeah, just do it for them, pay for it,

00:51:50   because you as like the young adult probably don't care,

00:51:54   the old people won't pay for it,

00:51:55   and yeah, and so it's like they need this,

00:51:58   you know that, they don't, so you just pay for it.

00:52:00   So on computers, that's Backblaze.

00:52:02   On their phones and iPads, it's iCloud storage.

00:52:06   - Yeah, your parents who have retired

00:52:08   on their astronomical pensions that no longer exist

00:52:11   for any generation after them, who are taking vacations

00:52:15   to Hawaii and living in luxury and buying fancy cars,

00:52:19   will never pay $10 a month.

00:52:22   What am I getting for that money?

00:52:24   I have to pay for storage?

00:52:26   No thanks.

00:52:26   I don't need backups.

00:52:28   It doesn't make sense.

00:52:29   But that's the mindset.

00:52:30   So since you're the one doing tech support,

00:52:33   just pay for the $10 a month.

00:52:36   They carried you for nine months in their body, right?

00:52:38   So, it's the least you can do.

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00:54:41   (upbeat music)

00:54:43   - All right, what else in 11.3?

00:54:46   iBooks is no more, it's just plain books.

00:54:48   - It's not no more yet, they just renamed it.

00:54:50   - I mean, this is the most substantial

00:54:52   iBooks update in years.

00:54:54   - I think they did something recently.

00:54:56   I don't know, they updated iBooks Author, I think, recently.

00:54:58   But yeah, iBooks was the second thing to get the iBook name after the old computer.

00:55:07   And now it's got its i's stripped away, joining...

00:55:11   What is it joining?

00:55:12   Music.

00:55:13   What are the other generic ones?

00:55:15   Well, numbers, I guess, maybe pages.

00:55:18   The generically named applications.

00:55:21   Now it's just called books.

00:55:23   And as Jason Snell said on Twitter, "I wonder if there's some other hardware product Apple

00:55:26   could use the iBook name for. What he's referring to of course is iOS laptops, which

00:55:31   we talked about last show. And yeah, that would be a good use. And it would be like

00:55:34   the iBook name coming back home to a laptop form factor but not a Mac. So we'll see.

00:55:40   I think that would be cool. I don't know how likely that is, but that would be a really

00:55:45   cool, fun reason for this. I think it might be confusing because it seems

00:55:49   like iBook is still kind of in living memory, so to speak, of the potential consumers. And

00:55:56   And to have someone who previously owned an iBook buy a new iBook and have it not be a

00:56:01   Mac, might be strange.

00:56:02   But anyway, this change is completely explicable by Apple's drive to name all of its products

00:56:08   like Marco's products, like the magazine.

00:56:11   One product I named that way.

00:56:12   One.

00:56:13   I know.

00:56:14   You're right, it is only one, but it lives larger, doesn't it?

00:56:18   It seems so significant.

00:56:19   What are the other Apple ones I can't think of?

00:56:23   You've got numbers pages, music, books.

00:56:27   Movie, tunes.

00:56:28   Oh, that hasn't happened yet.

00:56:31   iMovie is an interesting one because you can't just rip off the "i" because that's just called

00:56:34   "movie."

00:56:35   Yeah, exactly.

00:56:36   It doesn't really make any sense.

00:56:38   All right, so what's going on in Mac OS 10.13.4?

00:56:44   Probably a bunch of stuff, but the only thing that poked out at me is the long foreshadowed

00:56:52   of 32-bit, which is not happening in 10.13.4, but the foreshadowing continues.

00:56:57   Preparing for the end of 32-bit, as Apple says, I think this is in their release notes,

00:57:03   to prepare for future release of macOS in which 32-bit software will no longer run without

00:57:08   compromise.

00:57:09   Will no longer run without compromise.

00:57:10   What does that mean?

00:57:11   It doesn't say will no longer run.

00:57:14   Not will no longer run without compromises.

00:57:17   Will no longer run without compromise.

00:57:19   a Mac OS High Sierra 10.13.4, a user is notified at the launch of an app that depends on 30-bit

00:57:23   software. The alert appears only once per app. So this is kind of like on, look at this

00:57:28   on iOS too, like for a while 32-bit applications would pop up a dialogue that says this may

00:57:33   slow down your phone or is not optimized or had some message like that that would translate

00:57:39   to if you knew what it was talking about that it's a 32-bit app. And then eventually on

00:57:42   iOS it's like yeah no those aren't going to launch anymore. This application needs to

00:57:46   to be updated for blah blah blah, right?

00:57:48   So the fun thing about 10.13.4 is that if you're a developer,

00:57:52   you can reboot your Mac with the boot-arg

00:57:54   minus no32exec and it will stop all 32-bit processes

00:57:58   from launching, right?

00:58:00   So then you can try to use your app.

00:58:01   Like you think your app is clean and it's 64-bit clean,

00:58:04   it doesn't require any 32-bit framework,

00:58:06   doesn't invoke any 32-bit commands,

00:58:07   doesn't do anything 32-bit, fine.

00:58:09   Reboot your Mac in this developer mode

00:58:11   that will forbid any 32-bit stuff from running

00:58:13   and you'll see if it's broken.

00:58:15   Of course, this is a developer mode for people who are developing applications.

00:58:19   Users should not do this because half the stuff that you use from day to day will probably

00:58:22   be broken including parts of the OS or other things that are command line programs that

00:58:28   have 32-bit parts.

00:58:29   Put it this way, I bet there is a surprising amount of 32-bit software lurking in everybody's

00:58:36   Mac at this point.

00:58:37   But this is the only way you get to a 64-bit clean world.

00:58:41   Apple doesn't say what future version of Mac OS

00:58:46   where 32-bit software will no longer run,

00:58:48   and it also doesn't explain what compromise

00:58:50   they're talking about, because if they had just said,

00:58:52   will no longer run, I'd be like,

00:58:53   oh, that's just what happened in iOS.

00:58:55   32-bit stuff no longer runs.

00:58:56   Fair enough, right?

00:58:58   But compromise makes me think there's going to be

00:59:00   some kind of way to still run 32-bit stuff

00:59:03   just because it seems like Apple doesn't have as much faith

00:59:06   in the Apple developer or the Mac developer community

00:59:10   to bring everything to 64-bit.

00:59:13   Like there's just not enough of them

00:59:14   and they're just not motivated enough to bring everything.

00:59:16   So there will always be this really long tail of stragglers

00:59:18   where in iOS they're like, look, we're going 64-bit.

00:59:21   If you don't care enough about your app to port it, fine.

00:59:23   There's a thousand other apps that'll take your place.

00:59:25   We don't care.

00:59:26   But on the Mac, I don't know if that's the case.

00:59:28   So I'm very interested to see what the compromise is

00:59:32   and how they manage to run 32-bit stuff

00:59:35   in an OS that more or less doesn't support it.

00:59:37   They could use some kind of VM thing,

00:59:39   some kind of weird hypervisor thing, who knows?

00:59:42   But my guess is it's 1014,

00:59:45   we'll find out the answer to that question.

00:59:48   - To go back a step, I forgot to mention

00:59:50   that health records is also new in 11.3.

00:59:53   I think that completely slipped my mind.

00:59:55   - Yeah, it's not clear how that works.

00:59:57   Like I see the screen and it seems cool,

00:59:59   but how does it work?

01:00:01   - Yeah, that's what I was curious about too.

01:00:03   And I didn't know if I just hadn't read

01:00:04   the right documentation yet or something.

01:00:06   But the thought of having all of my health records

01:00:09   from all of my different health professionals,

01:00:10   all in one spot, all for me to be able to see.

01:00:14   That genuinely sounds really awesome,

01:00:15   but color me a little skeptical

01:00:18   that that'll actually be what ends up happening.

01:00:20   Because I mean, look at Apple Pay,

01:00:23   which is a seemingly odd analogy to use,

01:00:25   but I feel like in America, it's pulling teeth

01:00:28   to get a retailer to use Apple Pay,

01:00:30   and that's to give them money.

01:00:33   And here, it's like, what is going to encourage anyone,

01:00:37   insurance companies or doctors or whomever to share medical records. I mean, yeah, there

01:00:41   are records in theory since it's our bodies, et cetera, et cetera, but I don't know. I

01:00:46   don't see any real incentive to get health providers or insurance companies or whatever

01:00:51   to provide this information to us.

01:00:53   Well, there have been government incentives to make them adopt some of the things that

01:00:56   would make them potentially closer to supporting this type of feature, but...

01:01:03   Not anytime soon there won't be.

01:01:05   If there's one thing that's true in the, no there has been in the past, like the whole

01:01:08   meaningful use thing in past years was to try to get, you know, medical businesses in

01:01:16   the US to adopt electronic health record stuff, like who knows how effective it was.

01:01:20   But anyway, there's one thing that's true about healthcare in the US is that getting

01:01:25   all of your medical anything anywhere is basically impossible.

01:01:29   So if it was like, I would love to have all of my medical, stop, stop right there.

01:01:33   Whatever the rest of that sentence is, unless you are very, very lucky, it's not going to

01:01:38   happen.

01:01:39   It's hard enough to get any of your medical.

01:01:42   So if you are astronomically lucky and all of your health records happen to be at the

01:01:48   tiny subset of medical institutions and providers that are participating in this program, yes,

01:01:54   you could have all of your medical records in this thing, but chances are very, very

01:01:58   good that some of your medical records will not be participating in this.

01:02:03   And so it's just an adoption problem.

01:02:05   So I like to see Apple tackling this and they're trying to do it in a sort of agnostic way

01:02:09   using standard protocols for interchange.

01:02:12   It's not like some Apple proprietary thing where Apple has to convince everybody to adopt

01:02:16   some standard.

01:02:17   It's just that getting all of any of medical things in the U.S. to do anything is very

01:02:21   difficult because it's a very diverse, shall we say, environment of providers and technology

01:02:28   expertise and motivation and financial incentive to support something like this.

01:02:33   All right, then, Jon, the gifts just keep coming for you.

01:02:37   You have El Capitan fixes that you're choosing not to install, and tvOS 11.3 has a new gift

01:02:43   for you, does it not?

01:02:44   It's not really a gift for me because even though I have an older Apple TV, it's not

01:02:50   hooked up to a television set that I think can even do 24 frames per second. Like it's

01:02:54   hooked up to a crappy TV, like a bedroom TV, right? So anyway, the one change that is most

01:03:00   interesting to me in tvOS 11.3, which is currently in beta, is frame rate matching, which was

01:03:05   previously only supported on the Apple TV 4K, is now supported on the one that looks

01:03:09   exactly like the Apple TV 4K but isn't, because it doesn't have slots in the bottom.

01:03:12   Hey, that's mine. Yeah. So now you get that feature too. I don't

01:03:16   I also don't know if you have a television that can do 24 frames per second.

01:03:19   Probably not.

01:03:20   Almost sure I do not.

01:03:21   Yeah, but that was the question before, is like, why isn't this supported?

01:03:24   Is it some kind of hardware limitation?

01:03:25   No, they just didn't get around to it with software, and now they're getting around to

01:03:28   it.

01:03:29   So thumbs up for that.

01:03:30   All right, let's do some Ask ATP.

01:03:33   Some guy I've never heard of, Todd Vaziri, writes, "With your iPhone X experience, are

01:03:37   there any signs that Apple intends to unify 3D Touch and a long press to give the same

01:03:42   result, or do you feel that they have every intention of keeping these two gestures separate

01:03:46   and distinctive.

01:03:47   I haven't looked at gesture recognizers in a while,

01:03:49   and nor have I really fiddled with 3D touch APIs,

01:03:52   but as far as I can tell, just as a user,

01:03:56   it seems to me that it's pretty clearly

01:03:58   going to be kept separate.

01:03:59   But I don't know, Marco, have you been looking

01:04:01   through these APIs more recently?

01:04:02   Do you have any thoughts on this?

01:04:03   - I don't have any thoughts.

01:04:04   I don't think it's gonna be touched in any meaningful way.

01:04:07   I think it's gonna stay the way it is now,

01:04:09   which is basically like, most things are 3D touch or nothing.

01:04:14   and occasionally one of the app developers,

01:04:17   either Apple or third party, will have some good idea,

01:04:20   oh, you know, we should make this available

01:04:21   with long press eventually,

01:04:22   and then eventually somebody does it.

01:04:24   But it's probably gonna always be 3D touch first,

01:04:27   kind of like how the clear all notifications thing,

01:04:30   remember it wasn't that 3D touch first,

01:04:31   and then eventually they added long press.

01:04:33   It's probably gonna be like that kind of pattern,

01:04:35   just like 3D touch is first,

01:04:37   long press if somebody gets to it.

01:04:40   - But do you think, I think part of the question is,

01:04:42   - Do the APIs make it look like there will ever be a way

01:04:45   to coalesce them in terms, you'd write an application

01:04:48   to handle one kind of event and both of those things

01:04:50   that happen on the screen could funnel into one kind

01:04:52   of event or do you think it will,

01:04:53   - No. - the APIs still reflect

01:04:54   the fact that they are entirely separate?

01:04:56   - Entirely separate.

01:04:57   I mean, you could write something in your app

01:04:59   that would respond to either one.

01:05:02   - Right, right. - And you could write

01:05:03   some kind of reusable component to make that easier to do,

01:05:05   but as far as I could tell, Apple has not moved

01:05:08   in that direction at all.

01:05:09   I could be wrong, I could have missed something,

01:05:10   but I don't think so.

01:05:11   I don't think so either.

01:05:13   My impression from the outside, not looking at the APIs,

01:05:16   but just looking at how they're used,

01:05:17   is that I would go so far as to say

01:05:20   that Apple thinks there actually is an important distinction

01:05:22   between 3D Touch and Long Press

01:05:23   that should be meaningful in the UI.

01:05:25   And cases where they merely say Long Press is just

01:05:29   an affordance for people who have devices without 3D Touch

01:05:32   are kind of in the minority.

01:05:33   Like it seems like, especially as 3D Touch

01:05:36   spreads to more and more devices,

01:05:37   or at least phones anyway,

01:05:38   'cause they don't have it on iPads,

01:05:40   the 3D Touch is a different thing than long press.

01:05:44   And it may still be an optional thing like,

01:05:46   oh, if you happen to have a device that can afford it,

01:05:47   you can get this feature,

01:05:48   but that is not the same thing as long press.

01:05:52   Despite the fact that a lot of people like wish it was,

01:05:54   that it was just a more convenient long rest.

01:05:56   And using a phone from my perspective,

01:05:58   it feels different to me.

01:05:59   I wouldn't want it to be just an alternate way

01:06:01   to do long press because it just feels so very different.

01:06:04   So I think I'm mostly on the same page with Apple here,

01:06:06   despite the fact that it is somewhat confusing

01:06:08   to have to explain to people.

01:06:09   I don't think they're interchangeable.

01:06:11   They don't feel interchangeable to me.

01:06:14   - I tend to agree.

01:06:15   Alex writes, "What is AirPlay 2,

01:06:17   "and why is it so hard for both developers

01:06:19   "and Apple to implement it?"

01:06:21   So I guess, Marco, jump in whenever you're ready,

01:06:23   but AirPlay 2, is it supposed to be,

01:06:26   other than multi-room stuff,

01:06:27   which you can't really do with AirPlay 1

01:06:28   unless you're using iTunes on a Mac,

01:06:30   is it supposed to be kind of self-sufficient

01:06:33   where it's more like a Google Chromecast sort of scenario

01:06:36   where you just tell it,

01:06:37   "Hey, go play this thing over there,"

01:06:39   and it does it all by itself, or is that completely wrong?

01:06:42   - That's about halfway wrong.

01:06:43   So basically, the way AirPlay One worked was kind of like,

01:06:48   it's not that different from how Bluetooth audio works,

01:06:52   just done over WiFi.

01:06:53   It is what they call basically a real-time protocol,

01:06:56   it's just a stream.

01:06:57   They use stream audio to the AirPlay One device.

01:07:00   There is a fixed latency that all AirPlay One devices have

01:07:02   of two seconds, and everything goes over that same stream

01:07:06   at that same latency.

01:07:07   Audio gets streamed at that rate, commands like play,

01:07:10   pause, or seek get streamed at that rate.

01:07:12   That's why with an AirPlay speaker,

01:07:13   if you hit pause on your phone,

01:07:14   it takes two seconds before it actually pauses.

01:07:16   And so it was a simpler protocol.

01:07:19   It was launched forever ago.

01:07:21   And back then, things had to be simpler

01:07:23   for just technical practicality reasons.

01:07:26   So AirPlay One, very simple protocol.

01:07:29   What you're alluding to, Casey,

01:07:30   how Sonos and the Google Cast protocols usually work,

01:07:35   is basically like the speaker in those cases,

01:07:39   or like the Casted 2 device,

01:07:42   is controlling and playing whatever the media is itself.

01:07:47   It isn't having a device send it a stream of media

01:07:50   in most cases.

01:07:51   The Sonos speaker or Google Chromecast or whatever

01:07:55   is given like a URL and say play the file here.

01:07:59   And the client applications are basically

01:08:02   giving it commands whenever they feel like it.

01:08:04   of okay, pause it now, play this thing instead

01:08:06   or whatever else.

01:08:07   But the advantage of a system like that is your phone

01:08:11   or whatever is streaming the audio from

01:08:14   or causing the audio to be streamed

01:08:16   is not actually really involved in the realtime playback.

01:08:19   So the example that is often given is like,

01:08:23   if you go out and take out the trash during a party

01:08:25   and your phone is what's telling Sonos

01:08:28   to play this playlist,

01:08:29   when you leave your house's wifi for 30 seconds,

01:08:32   the music isn't gonna stop.

01:08:34   It's gonna keep playing because your phone

01:08:36   is simply giving it commands sometimes when you tell it to.

01:08:38   It isn't streaming the audio itself.

01:08:40   The device for Sonos and Google Class or whatever

01:08:43   is getting the audio itself over the network

01:08:46   and only just doing what your phone tells it to

01:08:48   when it's time to make changes.

01:08:50   AirPlay never worked that way.

01:08:51   AirPlay was always being real-time streamed

01:08:54   from the source device to the speaker.

01:08:56   - And a question.

01:08:57   The HomePod literature or whatever, PR literature,

01:09:01   makes that claim about it, that it's just pulling the music

01:09:06   from Apple Music and not pulling it from your phone,

01:09:09   but it doesn't currently support AirPlay 2.

01:09:12   - Yes, so there's a few different things here.

01:09:14   So that, what the HomePod is doing with Apple Music,

01:09:18   first of all, I believe that applies only to Apple Music,

01:09:20   and that is because the HomePod does appear,

01:09:23   from what they're saying, to be a native Apple Music client,

01:09:26   in the sense that you can ask it to play something

01:09:28   from Apple Music.

01:09:29   I don't know if your phone is involved

01:09:31   in the Siri request itself, but once it is playing,

01:09:36   it does sound like it can just keep playing

01:09:37   without your phone's presence.

01:09:39   So that is a separate thing.

01:09:40   That's not involving AirPlay 2, though.

01:09:42   So what AirPlay 2 does is kind of just a halfway point

01:09:47   between these, or kind of like a better AirPlay 1.

01:09:49   So what it lets you do is buffer

01:09:52   for much larger chunks of data.

01:09:54   And what Apple said in the WWDC session about it,

01:09:58   They said basically think minutes instead of seconds,

01:10:01   and it lets you buffer faster than real time.

01:10:04   So AirPlay One was a fixed two-second latency everywhere.

01:10:08   The streaming device supplied the audio in real time,

01:10:11   the playing device played it in real time,

01:10:12   there's a two-second buffer on the playing device.

01:10:14   AirPlay Two, the streaming device is asked

01:10:18   to supply the audio as fast as it can,

01:10:20   faster than real time until the buffer fills up.

01:10:23   And so your AirPlay Two client program

01:10:26   that's playing media has to be able to feed the buffer

01:10:30   a lot, like five minutes or 10 minutes or whatever it is,

01:10:33   of future audio.

01:10:35   And then the playing device maintains that buffer

01:10:38   and plays it in real time and notifies you

01:10:41   of what point it has reached in playback.

01:10:44   So this changes a bunch of things.

01:10:47   This is a really big foundational change to how this works.

01:10:51   There are a number of big advantages.

01:10:53   So number one is that scenario of taking out the garbage

01:10:56   during a party, as long as you're not taking

01:10:58   like 20 minutes outside to take the garbage out,

01:11:00   in which case I would say you have to think

01:11:02   about your home layout.

01:11:04   That's too much of a trip.

01:11:06   It should be fine.

01:11:08   You should get back inside in time

01:11:10   for that minutes-long buffer

01:11:12   to not have to underrun itself.

01:11:15   Also, as we talk about during Euro ads,

01:11:20   a lot of times places in your house

01:11:22   are kind of Wi-Fi dead zones,

01:11:23   and so same problem with those.

01:11:26   There's lots of common scenarios where if you're airplane,

01:11:28   anybody who's ever done airplane, you know this,

01:11:31   'cause this has probably happened to you at some point,

01:11:33   where the person with the phone is walking around somewhere

01:11:35   and drops at a range for a second,

01:11:36   and the music stops or skips or whatever.

01:11:39   Also, another big advantage of this,

01:11:40   of breaking it out of that fixed latency model,

01:11:43   is that commands to change, so play, pause, seek commands,

01:11:48   those can happen faster than that two-second buffer.

01:11:51   Those can happen basically as quickly

01:11:53   as the device receives and processes them.

01:11:55   So, like any other wifi command in your house.

01:11:57   So it can be really fast.

01:11:59   So way faster, way more responsive playback controls,

01:12:02   as well as that long, super long buffer.

01:12:05   There's also, AirPlay One did support multi-room audio

01:12:10   in some way.

01:12:12   I'm not familiar with the details of how it coordinated it,

01:12:14   but I think only iTunes on the Mac

01:12:18   could ever really officially be the source for that.

01:12:21   There was never a way for it to have an iOS device

01:12:23   as the source of multi-room audio with AirPlay One.

01:12:27   AirPlay Two, that is now possible.

01:12:28   You can now do multi-room audio with the iOS device

01:12:31   as the source of that, so that's another big change.

01:12:34   I don't really know what has changed about the protocol

01:12:36   to allow that, but I'm sure there's a good reason.

01:12:38   Also, because the playback buffering and the media supply

01:12:43   has been separated from the command interface

01:12:48   of like play/pause, you can now have multiple devices

01:12:52   in your house being able to control the play/pause type controls of a stream that's playing from

01:12:58   not them. So like, you and your spouse can both have play/pause control over the music

01:13:05   playing from only one of your phones to the AirPlay 2 speaker. So also, you know, fun

01:13:10   stuff. There's also separation now of phone call status from AirPlay, so you can, for

01:13:16   instance, take a phone call on your phone that is air playing music to a speaker, and

01:13:21   and the music continues to play back on that speaker

01:13:23   while you're on the phone call.

01:13:24   That didn't happen before.

01:13:25   So this is all a lot of major changes,

01:13:29   and this is, I think, one of the reasons

01:13:30   why this is taking so long,

01:13:32   and why AirPlay 2 seems to be the big delay

01:13:34   for the HomePod.

01:13:35   This is tons of new iOS APIs,

01:13:40   tons of new background processes and changes

01:13:43   to fundamental things in iOS to make all this happen.

01:13:48   Also on the device side, on the speaker side,

01:13:52   you now have this long buffering mechanism,

01:13:56   and that's much more complex than before.

01:13:59   I'm sure Apple has some kind of component or library

01:14:02   or something that they will sell manufacturers

01:14:05   to make this easier on them, to kind of automate this

01:14:08   for them or be like a drop-in component or something,

01:14:11   but it's more complex than AirPlay One was by a lot.

01:14:15   And even AirPlay One, the client implementations

01:14:18   tended to suck that weren't Apple's.

01:14:20   Like, there was like one AirPlay chip

01:14:22   that every AirPlay speaker used and it sucked.

01:14:23   It was unreliable and it was terrible.

01:14:26   So, I'm guessing the delay in the speaker availability

01:14:29   is because this is more complex and maybe the industry

01:14:33   was caught off guard a little bit, who knows.

01:14:35   Maybe Apple hasn't actually really finished it yet

01:14:38   and they're just not saying that.

01:14:39   But either way, it's a complex protocol.

01:14:42   And then on the software side, on the iOS side,

01:14:45   and probably the HomePod side,

01:14:47   This is complex, I ran into some of this complexity

01:14:50   when I started looking at these APIs for Overcast.

01:14:53   And the main complexity here is,

01:14:55   streaming the music to the buffer

01:15:02   is now disconnected from what timestamp

01:15:06   or even like what track is actually playing at that moment.

01:15:11   Because you can read ahead by so far.

01:15:12   Like before, with the old Airplay One model,

01:15:16   Whatever function in your app supplied the audio

01:15:19   to the output stream could notify the app as that happened,

01:15:23   you're now at timestamp one, you're now at timestamp two.

01:15:26   And as soon as it played through a track,

01:15:28   it can say this track has finished playing,

01:15:29   you're now playing this next track.

01:15:31   Now, it can buffer so far ahead of real time

01:15:35   that the production of the audio in your app,

01:15:37   the thing that is supplying the audio,

01:15:40   has to be a separate thing entirely

01:15:42   from what parts of your app manage

01:15:46   what timestamp it's playing at

01:15:47   and what track it's currently playing.

01:15:50   And they've moved all that out now

01:15:51   to this new synchronizer object that you need.

01:15:54   So none of this is difficult to deal with,

01:15:57   but it's different.

01:15:58   It's a major change from the way it used to work.

01:16:01   And there's also other things, like for instance,

01:16:03   if your app has a concept of a playlist

01:16:06   and an item that is coming up is changed,

01:16:10   say the user deletes an entry in a playlist

01:16:12   or reorders a playlist,

01:16:14   and that part has already been buffered,

01:16:16   you now have to tell the buffer thing,

01:16:18   oh, and everything after this timestamp

01:16:20   is now different, reload it.

01:16:21   So there's all sorts of big and small changes like that

01:16:25   needed to adopt this kind of model,

01:16:27   and none of them are difficult or impossible,

01:16:30   it's just a lot of things to deal with.

01:16:32   It's a lot of change, a lot of potential for new bugs

01:16:36   or not realizing that old bugs were really bugs,

01:16:38   and so it's like, even doing it for overcast

01:16:41   is a pretty major undertaking

01:16:44   that I'm nowhere near done with.

01:16:46   I've only done the early stages of it

01:16:48   and now I kind of put it on the back burner

01:16:49   because now I know that it's not gonna be imminent

01:16:52   and I have more pressing things I wanna do.

01:16:54   But it's a big change to audio applications

01:16:58   and to the systems in iOS that manage them.

01:17:02   So I think there's very, very good justification

01:17:06   for AirPlay 2 to be late and for Apple to be running behind.

01:17:10   I think they should have probably anticipated it better

01:17:12   and planned for it better, but oh well.

01:17:15   All this is just to say that technically speaking,

01:17:17   this is a nice improvement.

01:17:19   It is also a really big job.

01:17:21   So it's totally reasonable for it to be

01:17:23   harder than they might have predicted

01:17:25   or taking longer than they predicted.

01:17:28   - You can have a fun class of bugs.

01:17:29   You could have a bug based on what you described

01:17:31   where the speaker is playing a song,

01:17:34   but your player application on your phone

01:17:37   indicates that it's playing a different song.

01:17:39   So it goes to the next track,

01:17:40   and if you didn't do that synchronization thing

01:17:42   that you said, oh by the way, they've deleted something,

01:17:45   your phone will say, I'm happily playing song A,

01:17:47   and you'll be hearing a totally different song

01:17:48   come through the speaker.

01:17:49   You'll be like, this thing is totally broken,

01:17:51   how does that even happen?

01:17:52   Well, now we know how it happens.

01:17:54   - Yeah, or as it starts buffering,

01:17:56   if you didn't do the timestamp change

01:17:58   of how it reports what time you're playing until,

01:18:00   then you can have it,

01:18:01   if you watch your time thing in the app,

01:18:04   you start airplane to a speaker,

01:18:05   and your time starts racing ahead by 10 minutes

01:18:08   all of a sudden, but you're not hearing it that fast.

01:18:11   There's so many, or it races to the end

01:18:13   and deletes the file, 'cause it's how it's played already,

01:18:16   gone, there's a lot of potential

01:18:20   for big and small bugs here.

01:18:22   - In your application, if they change

01:18:23   the playback speed midstream, you have to invalidate

01:18:26   everything that you previously uploaded at the other speed.

01:18:28   - Oh, that's interesting. - Yep, yep.

01:18:30   Or if they toggle off smart speed, yep, anything.

01:18:32   Or if you just seek, I think if you,

01:18:35   I don't think it actually does, in the current protocol,

01:18:37   I'm not sure it actually does seeking.

01:18:39   Anyway, and one concern I have too is like,

01:18:42   this stuff is all so early and so complex

01:18:44   and such a big undertaking, I'm not sure I want to devote

01:18:48   a whole bunch of time to changing my entire audio engine

01:18:52   to support this before I know that the API is solid.

01:18:56   And given that Apple is delaying their own AirPlay 2 stuff,

01:19:00   and I'm kind of worried that maybe the API is not done yet

01:19:03   or not baked yet.

01:19:05   So there's another reason why I've kind of paused

01:19:08   my work on this for now.

01:19:09   - Yeah, it could end up like crashing your application

01:19:13   in scenarios where their person's not even using AirPlay 2

01:19:16   just because of how you had to rejigger the internals,

01:19:18   which is not a great thing to happen.

01:19:20   - All right, what are we in the middle of?

01:19:22   We're in the middle of Ask ATP, right?

01:19:23   - Yep.

01:19:24   - Okay, Andrew Lim Penning writes,

01:19:28   "Could Jon please detail his method

01:19:30   "for reading extremely long soft cover books

01:19:31   "without ruining his spine?

01:19:33   Where the hell did this even come from?

01:19:35   When did you talk about this?

01:19:37   Some other podcast that I'm on that Andrew apparently listens to, I discussed this.

01:19:40   I think you two should know about it too in the long history of weird things that I've

01:19:46   done.

01:19:47   Anyway, when I was younger, I had a lot of books like paper books before I got on the

01:19:51   e-book bandwagon, and I had a lot of paperback books when I was younger.

01:19:57   And some of them are really thick because I'm a big Stephen King fan and his books are

01:20:01   long.

01:20:02   And eventually I got into books as a thing that you can buy as a sort of physical object

01:20:07   in addition to the words that they contain.

01:20:09   In fact, I'm still like that.

01:20:10   I read ebooks mostly, but I still like physical books.

01:20:13   Often I will buy a physical book but still read the ebook.

01:20:15   Anyway, I got a lot of softcovers and I like them.

01:20:18   I got a lot of series.

01:20:19   They had cool spines.

01:20:20   I'd put them up on my shelf, arrange them, they looked nice.

01:20:25   Pretty soon after getting my first collection of paperbacks, I decided I didn't like how

01:20:28   the books looked when the spines were broken.

01:20:30   If you open a paper back really wide, the nice printed spine on it will get a big white

01:20:36   you know, crease or crack on it and if you read the book eventually you'll have cracks

01:20:39   going up and down the whole spine.

01:20:41   Anyone who has had a big thick paperback book knows about this.

01:20:44   So I didn't like that so eventually I decided I'm going to read all my softcover books no

01:20:49   matter how thick they are without breaking the spine.

01:20:53   And that's what this question is about.

01:20:54   How do you do that?

01:20:55   Unfortunately for Andrew the answer is exactly how you would think you'd do that.

01:21:00   you don't open the book really wide.

01:21:02   You support the spine with your fingers behind it

01:21:05   and you open it a crack and you'd be like,

01:21:07   how are you gonna read an entire, literally 800 page book

01:21:11   peeking into this tiny crevice to read the text out of the,

01:21:15   you know, like, you know, there is no secret.

01:21:19   The secret, you know, like the technique is

01:21:21   put your fingers on the back of the spine

01:21:22   so you can feel what's happening at the back of that spine

01:21:24   and open it as wide as you can before it creases

01:21:27   and just be really, really careful.

01:21:29   And I don't think that's a particularly fun way to read.

01:21:31   I think people should buy ebooks

01:21:32   'cause they're way better than paper books,

01:21:33   but paper books are beautiful,

01:21:34   so you should still buy them

01:21:35   and collect them and display them.

01:21:37   - So how do you use an iPhone without scratching it?

01:21:39   Well, you keep it in a small felt pouch

01:21:41   and you take it in and out of that pouch

01:21:43   every single time you use it,

01:21:44   and you never actually touch it.

01:21:46   - Well done, sir.

01:21:47   - Not every single time, only when you're out of the house.

01:21:49   Only when you're out of the house.

01:21:50   In the house it is, not in the pouch ever.

01:21:52   (laughing)

01:21:53   Well, yeah, what could possibly be more convenient than that?

01:21:58   - Pouch is awesome.

01:21:59   I like, here's the thing about the pouch.

01:22:01   I originally started doing it for the reason you noted,

01:22:04   for like scratchability,

01:22:05   but I have come to appreciate the fingerprint.

01:22:07   Like I don't ever have to clean off my phone screen,

01:22:10   which is apparently things a lot of people have to do,

01:22:12   or their phone screens look disgusting,

01:22:13   because every time it goes in and out of my pouch,

01:22:15   it gets cleaned.

01:22:16   - Of course.

01:22:17   - And when it stays in there and it rubs around,

01:22:19   like it's a microfiber thing,

01:22:20   it is always cleaning my phone screen.

01:22:22   It's nice.

01:22:23   - So a year of using my JetBlack iPhone 7,

01:22:26   and you know how much it ever mattered

01:22:27   - Do you know how scratched it was?

01:22:28   Not at all.

01:22:30   Know how much I ever noticed?

01:22:31   Zero.

01:22:32   - That's the back, I'm talking about the front.

01:22:34   - Actually, you know what--

01:22:35   - I have a case on it, so I don't care about the back.

01:22:36   - I actually do have a small problem with the iPhone X.

01:22:39   I'm getting scratches on my screen.

01:22:42   - Really?

01:22:42   - On the front?

01:22:43   - Yeah. - From what?

01:22:45   - I don't know, they're not like deep scratches,

01:22:47   but when the light hits a certain angle, you can see them.

01:22:49   And I think I heard from a few other people

01:22:51   that they were having a similar issue.

01:22:53   Like, I've never had iPhone screen scratches

01:22:55   that were noticeable.

01:22:56   I'm getting scratches on my iPhone 10 already.

01:22:59   So I don't know what's up.

01:23:00   - Are they micro, very micro scratches?

01:23:03   Maybe they're just scratches in the

01:23:05   sort of the oleophobic whatever coating

01:23:08   and not actually in the glass?

01:23:10   - Maybe, I mean again, they don't look deep.

01:23:12   You can't see them at all angles.

01:23:14   If you turn the screen off, they're pretty noticeable.

01:23:17   - That's interesting.

01:23:18   Anyway, I don't have any on mine.

01:23:19   Pouch.

01:23:20   - Pouch is not the answer, John.

01:23:23   - It's an answer.

01:23:24   It may not be the answer, but it is an answer.

01:23:26   It is an answer.

01:23:27   I will concede it is an answer.

01:23:29   And the back of my jet black iPhone 7, I'm sure, is pristine underneath my leather case.

01:23:34   Good for it.

01:23:35   I'm sure that's going to really matter long term.

01:23:39   Yeah, I've already decided that I'm not – speaking of keeping phones pristine – I'm not going

01:23:43   to give any of my kids this iPhone 7.

01:23:47   Like I handed down my iPhone 6.

01:23:50   You know, God knows what my son is doing to it for the 7.

01:23:52   I'm like, "No, no.

01:23:54   will buy you like an iPhone SE used or something but we're not you're not

01:23:57   getting my 7. I spent all this time keeping it pristine.

01:24:00   Like this is this the iPhone my iPhone 7 I think is in the category of like my

01:24:04   SE 30 and my 2008 Mac Pro.

01:24:06   I really like this phone. I mean granted I've only had two iPhones but this is by

01:24:10   far my favorite. Like there's nothing about it that is bad even the lack of

01:24:15   headphone port like I've you know I think this iPhone 7 is great and I'm now

01:24:19   appreciating it as my last pre-iPhone 10 notch of Apple phone.

01:24:25   Yeah, honestly, as we talked about it in our iPhone 7 exit interview segment, looking back

01:24:32   on it, I don't want to go back to it because I like the X too much, but that really was

01:24:37   a great phone.

01:24:38   It was a great moment in time.

01:24:40   It was a great phone.

01:24:41   And the 8 is great too and everything, but overshadowed by the 10.

01:24:45   I didn't get the 8, so I've got the 7 and this is my phone that hit the sweet spot of

01:24:49   the culmination of a long evolution

01:24:51   of a particular phone factor before Apple

01:24:53   took a hard left turn into iPhone X land.

01:24:55   - Also, the 8 doesn't have the Jet Black finish,

01:24:57   and that to me was a critical part

01:24:58   of why the 7 was so awesome,

01:24:59   because it so dramatically improved

01:25:01   and changed the feel of the phone.

01:25:03   Like it gave that awesome caseless grip that I miss.

01:25:08   The iPhone X is better than the previous aluminum ones,

01:25:13   but it's still not as good as the iPhone 7 in grip.

01:25:17   but I like the rest of it, so I'm keeping it, I guess,

01:25:19   even though my screen's scratched.

01:25:21   Anyway, thanks to our sponsors this week,

01:25:23   Casper, Betterment, and SRC,

01:25:25   and we will talk to you next week.

01:25:27   (upbeat music)

01:25:30   ♪ Now the show is over ♪

01:25:32   ♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪

01:25:35   ♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪

01:25:37   ♪ Accidental ♪

01:25:38   ♪ Oh, it was accidental ♪

01:25:39   ♪ Accidental ♪

01:25:41   ♪ John didn't do any research ♪

01:25:43   ♪ Marco and Casey wouldn't let him ♪

01:25:45   'Cause it was accidental (it was accidental)

01:25:48   It was accidental (it was accidental)

01:25:51   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:25:56   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:26:01   @caseyliss

01:26:05   So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:26:09   Auntie Marco Arment

01:26:12   S-I-R-A-C

01:26:15   ♪ USA, Syracuse, it's accidental ♪

01:26:20   ♪ They didn't mean to, accidental ♪

01:26:25   ♪ Tech podcast, so long ♪

01:26:29   - I really, I do this every year.

01:26:33   I guess this is my lose weight kind of New Year's resolution

01:26:38   even though it's not a resolution.

01:26:39   It's just something I remind myself of every year.

01:26:42   And every year, January comes around.

01:26:44   I remind myself, you know what, you should really be less negative, Casey, on the internet

01:26:49   and stop complaining and moaning about things, which I don't think I do overwhelmingly, but

01:26:54   I do probably more than I should.

01:26:57   And then something like this happens.

01:26:59   I see a news report saying BMW is going to charge $80 a year for a subscription to CarPlay.

01:27:09   $80 for a subscription to CarPlay.

01:27:11   That involves no cloud services

01:27:14   or anything like that of any sort.

01:27:16   It's just $80 for them to not cut you off

01:27:18   for the thing in your car.

01:27:20   - Yeah.

01:27:23   - Wha, huh?

01:27:25   Why?

01:27:26   - There's a number of angles to this.

01:27:28   So a few people asked when this first came out,

01:27:30   like, well, do we know,

01:27:32   is Apple charging them yearly?

01:27:34   And we don't have a firm answer on that.

01:27:37   Apparently, somebody heard from some car maker

01:27:40   that Apple does not charge fees for CarPlay,

01:27:43   and there certainly is not an annual fee.

01:27:45   - Apple did say so, according to Gruber.

01:27:47   This is what he said on his website.

01:27:50   Gruber says, "I've now received

01:27:51   "the following clarification from Apple.

01:27:53   "There is no fee for OEMs for either

01:27:56   "MFI or CarPlay integration.

01:27:57   "There never has been, and there never will,

01:28:00   "to my knowledge, there are no plans to this change.

01:28:02   "There is no royalty costs or ongoing costs.

01:28:04   "The only costs to automakers are those necessary

01:28:06   "to create the hardware.

01:28:07   "This includes an authentication chip."

01:28:09   - All right, that's good, okay.

01:28:10   So anyway, so that rules that out.

01:28:11   But anyway, so this does solve a problem.

01:28:16   I don't think it solves it in the right way.

01:28:19   But there is a problem that BMWs, as you know,

01:28:24   Casey, from having bought them,

01:28:25   especially having bought them used,

01:28:27   certain options like this,

01:28:29   they're options at purchase when the car is new,

01:28:32   and you can't have them later.

01:28:33   CarPlay, there's not much reason,

01:28:36   like it's like a $300 option normally before this thing.

01:28:39   There's not a lot of reason that they had to charge

01:28:43   300 extra dollars, they're just doing it because they can.

01:28:46   Because cars like this, luxury cars especially,

01:28:50   they charge money for every little thing, anything.

01:28:53   If you want, they've offered for years now,

01:28:55   they've offered wireless phone charging,

01:28:57   where they just put basically a Qi charger in the armrest

01:29:00   and they charge you like $700 or some obscene thing for that.

01:29:04   That's just the game here.

01:29:05   When you're buying a high-end car like this,

01:29:07   many of the brands will nickel and dime you to death

01:29:10   over stuff that does not cost them that much to add,

01:29:12   but they have a captive audience.

01:29:14   It's just like buying a beer at a baseball stadium.

01:29:16   It's a captive audience,

01:29:17   you're already spending a lot of money.

01:29:19   They know that they can get more out of people

01:29:21   if they do this.

01:29:22   So, that, I don't really fault them

01:29:25   for charging separately for this.

01:29:28   I think it's a crappy luxury experience

01:29:31   that not every BMW has car play.

01:29:33   Like a lot of other manufacturers,

01:29:34   all of their cars now have CarPlay,

01:29:36   or all of certain model lines have it.

01:29:39   BMW's not doing that.

01:29:41   That creates a problem if you're looking for a used one,

01:29:44   and this is a fairly minor feature distinction.

01:29:47   So if you're looking at used BMWs,

01:29:49   or if you have acquired a used BMW,

01:29:50   it might be difficult to find one that has CarPlay,

01:29:54   or you might not know until you actually go visit

01:29:56   one of the dealer whether the one you're looking at

01:29:58   has CarPlay or not.

01:30:00   There is a problem that they are now solving

01:30:03   that now you can add CarPlay.

01:30:06   So I think you can actually,

01:30:09   like if a car was sold without it

01:30:10   and you go buy it used and you want it,

01:30:12   I think you can add it by starting to pay this fee.

01:30:15   That's not a great solution to that problem.

01:30:17   There are way better solutions.

01:30:19   Like honestly, a well-specced BMW

01:30:22   costs like over 40 grand most of the time.

01:30:25   You can throw in CarPlay at no additional charge.

01:30:28   This is the kind of thing like,

01:30:30   the brakes aren't optional.

01:30:32   the air conditioning now comes standard.

01:30:37   I think CarPlay is really very quickly becoming

01:30:40   one of those features where people just expect that.

01:30:42   It's weird if you don't have it on a nice car these days.

01:30:46   So they should really include it on all the cars

01:30:50   and not charge you this dumb fee.

01:30:52   - One of the analogies I heard was in cheap

01:30:55   to mid-price hotels, the Wi-Fi is free,

01:30:57   but in fancy hotels, they charge you for it.

01:31:00   - That is definitely not true.

01:31:02   - They charge you for it at every hotel.

01:31:04   - No, I've heard that saying before

01:31:07   and I have experienced some of that

01:31:09   where the main places I've seen free WiFi

01:31:12   are not in the fanciest hotels

01:31:14   but kind of in the mid-tier ones.

01:31:16   But once you get fancy, they're like,

01:31:17   well, you're already paying so much for the room anyway,

01:31:19   we'll just add this charge on for the WiFi.

01:31:21   - Well, and also, see also, iCloud storage plans,

01:31:24   like what we talked about earlier.

01:31:25   This is a captive audience, right?

01:31:27   Like, iCloud storage sells not because it's a great deal

01:31:30   but because you kinda want it,

01:31:33   it makes the experience way better,

01:31:34   and what else are you gonna do?

01:31:36   This is all system integration stuff,

01:31:38   and it's like, if you want this experience

01:31:40   in the native first-party way that works with everything,

01:31:42   you're probably gonna have to pay

01:31:43   whatever they want for it.

01:31:44   CarPlay and BMWs is the same thing.

01:31:46   You're gonna have to pay

01:31:47   whatever they want for it, basically.

01:31:48   So I think the solution here is to stop buying BMWs.

01:31:52   - Yeah, exactly.

01:31:53   BMW has the problem of they do have competitors.

01:31:57   Maybe there's no competitor for CarPlay

01:31:59   for you know, I want integration with my iPhone

01:32:00   and such and such a way,

01:32:01   but you can buy another luxury car that has CarPlay

01:32:06   that doesn't charge you this much.

01:32:07   And one of the points I've seen from people talking

01:32:09   about this in terms of pricing, it's like, well,

01:32:11   if you get a three year lease and it's 80 bucks,

01:32:13   it's still cheaper than a $300 upfront option,

01:32:15   which is kind of true.

01:32:16   And like in the grand scheme of things, given like, you know,

01:32:20   like how much they charge for the different paint color,

01:32:23   it's like an additional $2,500 or whatever.

01:32:25   Like if you add it all up,

01:32:26   the number of absurd things you're going to pay way more for for the life of this BMW

01:32:31   that you'll happily pay for because you want the sparkly red paint or whatever dwarfs this

01:32:35   carplay thing. But the carplay thing just feels punitive because everyone else is giving

01:32:39   it to you for free and there's not even a hint of a justifiable reason for it to be

01:32:45   an ongoing eternal payment. And so it just annoys people. So I think BMW will, this is

01:32:51   what will either happen, either BMW will reverse this or every other luxury carmaker will do

01:32:55   do the same thing.

01:32:56   (laughing)

01:32:57   - It's true.

01:32:58   It's true.

01:32:59   It's just, I don't know, it's just so frustrating because I know in my brain that this is a

01:33:08   completely unsurprising thing for a luxury car manufacturer to do.

01:33:12   The things that BMW charged for, up until recently and maybe still to this day, they

01:33:17   had a tremendous upcharge for xenon headlamps or high-intensity discharge headlamps.

01:33:22   I guess they're LEDs now in all likelihood.

01:33:24   But for years when high-intensity discharge headlamps

01:33:28   were a thing, BMWs would still have that as an option.

01:33:33   Like my generation, the early 2010s.

01:33:38   - Oh yeah.

01:33:39   - I will constantly see-- - My first, my 3 Series

01:33:40   that was that generation, I didn't get the HIDs.

01:33:42   They were too expensive.

01:33:43   - Right, exactly, and I will see them constantly

01:33:45   to this day, and you can tell what is HIDs and what doesn't.

01:33:49   But that seemed preposterous to me.

01:33:51   Like, I'm not saying that it shouldn't necessarily

01:33:53   paid for, but come on, it's an option? Really? Like, you're buying a BMW, you're buying a Mercedes,

01:33:58   you're buying an Acura, whatever the case may be. Like, that should just be part of the car.

01:34:03   And I don't know, this just seems like such a preposterous, absurd thing to nickel and

01:34:08   dime people over. And it's not as bad as Porsche, from what I understand, who I guess is the kings

01:34:14   and queens of nickel and diming, but it's just gross. And I think BMW has been heading more and

01:34:18   more and more this way over time,

01:34:20   and it just grosses me out.

01:34:22   And here again, I just, I don't know what car I should get

01:34:24   if I get a new car, 'cause I'm screwed no matter what.

01:34:28   What happened to the ultimate driving machine?

01:34:29   They don't even use that slogan anymore.

01:34:32   I love that slogan.

01:34:33   - I mean, to be fair, like, every BMW owner

01:34:36   has always had this progression with the company,

01:34:37   and it just rolls into different times.

01:34:39   It's like, every BMW owner for the history of BMW

01:34:42   has always said, "Whatever happened to the BMW

01:34:45   "that made, you know, my first car?"

01:34:47   - Yeah, like now the ones they make today are crap, but--

01:34:50   - Whatever happened to the MacBook Pros

01:34:52   with better keyboards, am I right, Marco?

01:34:54   - Well, it's a little bit--

01:34:55   (laughing)

01:34:56   - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

01:34:58   - Little bit different when the failure rate

01:35:01   changed just so dramatically.

01:35:02   - It was at, I think, Kieran Healy,

01:35:04   or maybe it was him or someone else,

01:35:05   tweeted a picture of an old PowerBook,

01:35:07   and all I could think of was looking at that,

01:35:08   it's like, look at the travel on those keys.

01:35:10   (laughing)

01:35:12   Full-size keyboard keys, like it was before

01:35:14   they even started really flattening them out,

01:35:16   like they look like just full-size mechanical keyboard keycaps, right?

01:35:20   They probably have more travel than the total thickness of the current MacBook Pro line.

01:35:26   (laughing)

01:35:28   [BLANK_AUDIO]