247: A Place to Stick Your Gum


00:00:00   Fun fact listeners Syracuse is a much funnier person than you would ever expect like you you hear bits of that on the show

00:00:06   But more in a laughing at me way than laughing. No, that's not true. That's not right. You really like

00:00:11   But no really it he is way funnier in person when when not performing as you have as we are all doing that

00:00:24   You're trying to say I'm not funny on the podcast. He's way funnier than he is in this podcast

00:00:29   That's not what I was going for, but if you want—I'm too tired to argue with you, so yes.

00:00:33   Let's start as we have to do with follow-up.

00:00:37   tvOS 11.2 Beta is out.

00:00:40   Tell me about the output format switching, Mr.

00:00:44   Syracuse, if you please. Not only is it out, but I actually got the update.

00:00:49   I don't know what caused me to get it, but I checked for updates, and there it was, and I was very excited.

00:00:53   So I immediately went into that settings screen that lets you say match

00:00:58   Source format frame rate or whatever and then the HDR one is not applied to me. So I couldn't adjust try that one and

00:01:04   then I played a movie and

00:01:07   my television switched to

00:01:10   What it displays as 24 Hertz, but isn't really true because I'm pretty sure it's in some multiple that refresh rate

00:01:17   But anyway, it works. It really really works. Hooray

00:01:20   Of course with the movie I tried it with was a movie I purchased on iTunes

00:01:25   So I was using Apple's built-in movie app, which I assumed would have been updated to use the new API's and I guess it has been

00:01:31   I haven't had time to try it with

00:01:34   Plex and infuse and all the other things because I just assumed they would not have had time to update but I'm just gonna wait until

00:01:40   11.2 is out and try them as well

00:01:43   So I'm happy about this and I'm one step closer to the probably terrible mistake of

00:01:49   losslessly ripping all of my blu-rays so that I can watch them on demand without touching

00:01:54   a blu-ray disc at full quality. But we'll see how that goes. And one additional note

00:01:58   from this, Joe Rosenstiel has confirmed a while ago and now is in the process of complaining

00:02:04   and filing radars with Apple about the fact that the previous generation Apple TV, the

00:02:09   not 4K Apple TV, doesn't get these features.

00:02:12   Oh, wamp wamp for me.

00:02:14   And also doesn't apparently get a manual 24 frames per second option. And like I said

00:02:18   a couple shows ago, I don't get a manual 24 frames per second option either in earlier

00:02:22   versions of tvOS even though my television supports it.

00:02:26   But anyway, all these features are just for the fancy new Apple TV 4k.

00:02:31   I don't think that's unreasonable.

00:02:33   Well it's the Apple way to do things like why keep supporting the old thing, right?

00:02:37   Although as Todd Vaziri unfortunately found out, they still sell the old one because he

00:02:41   went to, he was trying to order an Apple TV 4k and they didn't have any in stock so he

00:02:44   went to the store and bought one. He got a different size, he wanted to get the big one

00:02:49   I think, but he got the small one, and brought it home only to find that he just purchased

00:02:52   the previous generation Apple TV. Which looks very much the same if you're not very careful

00:02:58   to look at the box and make sure it says Apple TV 4K on it. So that's a shame. And then of

00:03:05   course they continue to sell the other one because it hits a price point, but they're

00:03:07   not going to support it with the latest version. They have CVOS in the same way. Like maybe

00:03:10   this technical reason, I can't really think of one, but it's conceivable that there's

00:03:15   some unknown technical reason why they can't do the switching, but that's crappy.

00:03:20   They also, in the most Tim Cook move ever, didn't even lower the price of the now two-year-old

00:03:24   one, when they brought out the new one.

00:03:26   Well, you know, the currency.

00:03:28   They have it to hit a price point, but it's a very not competitive price point compared

00:03:32   to the rest of the industry.

00:03:33   Suddenly it looks good, it's anchoring, the anchoring effect of the new, more expensive

00:03:36   one.

00:03:37   Plus you've got inflation, right?

00:03:38   So it was a long time ago, so money's worth less now.

00:03:42   Ah, Apple.

00:03:43   All right, and then tell me about APFS snapshots as used by Time Machine and Software Update,

00:03:49   if you please.

00:03:50   There were a couple of articles about this, but eventually they could all be traced back

00:03:54   to a handy TechNote thing on Apple's own site to explain how the cool APFS snapshots

00:04:01   are being used by Apple's software, at the very least.

00:04:06   So Time Machine is using them.

00:04:08   I'm assuming, I don't know if this article says it,

00:04:11   but I'm assuming the obvious thing to do is take a snapshot

00:04:13   and then do a Time Machine backup from that snapshot.

00:04:15   So you don't get the weird thing that you used to get

00:04:18   where a Time Machine backups takes a half an hour to run

00:04:22   and files that are copied to the beginning of the backup

00:04:25   are 30 minutes newer than files that are copied at the end.

00:04:28   And you sort of get this weird image of the disc

00:04:29   that is like, it's like a rolling shutter on a phone, right?

00:04:32   It's like a rolling backup, like I'll start backing up.

00:04:35   And while I'm backing up,

00:04:36   you're continuing to use your computer.

00:04:37   But if I already backed up the file you modified,

00:04:39   I'll get it in the next backup.

00:04:40   It's weird.

00:04:41   Snapshots, you don't have to do that.

00:04:42   You can say point in time snapshot.

00:04:45   That's what I'm gonna back up from.

00:04:46   That's exactly what this disk looks like

00:04:47   at a particular point in time.

00:04:49   And it will back up from that.

00:04:50   But additionally, Time Machine takes snapshots

00:04:53   every 24 hours while your computer is turned on.

00:04:56   And it takes a snapshot every week as well.

00:04:59   And remember snapshots are just like a point in time

00:05:02   on your disk.

00:05:03   It's not a backup to your time machine volume.

00:05:05   It's just snapshots of your regular disk as it was.

00:05:08   And those are convenient for like, let me,

00:05:12   you can run time machine,

00:05:14   even if you've never had your time machine disk,

00:05:15   like your external time machine disk,

00:05:17   attached to your computer for a long time,

00:05:19   you can still use time machine to recover things

00:05:22   from the local disk that were part of those snapshots.

00:05:25   And I heard some report of someone saying,

00:05:28   I deleted a bunch of stuff

00:05:29   and my free disk space didn't go down.

00:05:31   It really depends on how they were checking

00:05:32   their free disk space because if you were checking it at the lowest level, that would

00:05:35   be true because if you make a snapshot and that snapshot includes like a 4 gig file,

00:05:40   then you delete that 4 gig file, you don't get that space back because that snapshot

00:05:45   is still holding onto those 4 gigs so that you could, if you wanted to, recover that

00:05:49   file from the snapshot or whatever with Time Machine.

00:05:51   So that's a case where if you were getting your disk, free disk space at the lowest level,

00:05:55   you would see that I deleted this file, why didn't I get the free space back?

00:05:58   But this TechNote has a thing at the end that says basically,

00:06:02   are you worried about these snapshots

00:06:04   eating all your disk space?

00:06:05   Don't worry, because if we, the operating system, need--

00:06:08   storage space gets low, which is what the TechNote says,

00:06:11   snapshots are automatically deleted

00:06:13   starting with the oldest.

00:06:14   And I'm quoting directly from the document now.

00:06:16   That's why Finder and GetInfoWindows

00:06:18   don't include local snapshots in their calculations

00:06:20   of the storage space available on disk.

00:06:22   So yet another complication, as foretold in many past episodes

00:06:25   of how APFS was going to make it much more complicated

00:06:27   to even display things like free space,

00:06:30   having to do a bunch of math and subtract out the space

00:06:34   taken by snapshots and all that other stuff.

00:06:36   So they just lie to you and say,

00:06:37   "Oh yeah, no, we freed up that space."

00:06:39   But they didn't, they didn't free it up.

00:06:41   Unless you need more disk space,

00:06:43   unless you really, really need it,

00:06:45   it won't delete the snapshots.

00:06:46   And deleting snapshots is easy,

00:06:47   it's not like it has to delete a bunch of files

00:06:48   that just says, "Okay, forget about that snapshot,

00:06:50   all those disks, all those blocks

00:06:52   that were a part of that snapshot

00:06:53   that are not part of any other snapshot are now free."

00:06:55   So it's the magic of APFS.

00:06:57   And my final note on this tech note, which I think everyone should read, is it is forced

00:07:02   to explain the horrendous UI of Time Machine, specifically the weird timeline scroll-y thing

00:07:11   on the right, with like a little zoomy timeline.

00:07:15   Some poor tech writer had to write out, "If you have one of these versions of the operating

00:07:20   systems, a bright red tick mark means this.

00:07:23   A dimmed red tick mark means that.

00:07:25   If you have a different version of the operating system, a gray tick mark means this, a bright

00:07:28   pink tick mark means this, and a dimmed pink tick mark means this.

00:07:34   These colors are very similar to each other.

00:07:36   I would never have guessed all this stuff, how you use the interface many, many times.

00:07:40   And there's not a lot of text.

00:07:41   It's like time machine, good technology, even though they got rid of the swirling vortex,

00:07:46   which I would argue is the best part of this interface, they got rid of that, right?

00:07:49   So it's not like completely frivolous.

00:07:50   But the rest of the UI is not great.

00:07:53   I don't know what these colors mean.

00:07:55   I've read this tech note.

00:07:56   I'm never gonna remember this.

00:07:57   I don't know what dimmed pink means.

00:07:59   What is bright pink and dimmed pink?

00:08:01   If you only have dimmed pink,

00:08:03   how can you tell it's dimmed pink and it's not bright pink

00:08:05   unless you have a bright pink to compare it to?

00:08:07   This is a bad interface.

00:08:09   Apple, please work on this.

00:08:11   - Oh, wow.

00:08:12   - How do you really feel, Jon?

00:08:13   Just don't hold back this time.

00:08:15   - I mean, this is like Time Machine

00:08:16   is just one of the many things that like,

00:08:19   as we have gotten the transition of the whole world

00:08:22   and all of Apple's focus to iOS.

00:08:25   It's one of the many things on macOS I look at,

00:08:27   and I'm just kind of sad that if macOS was still getting

00:08:31   seemingly meaningful effort put into it,

00:08:36   this could be so much more by now.

00:08:38   This could be so much better,

00:08:40   but it just seems like most of macOS is

00:08:42   not only in maintenance mode,

00:08:43   but seems to have the B team working on it,

00:08:46   and it just makes me sad.

00:08:48   - And it's a little bit buggy, too.

00:08:49   I spend time in the interface trying to find things,

00:08:51   And sometimes it does weird stuff and you just shake my head and try it for a second

00:08:55   time and it usually works a second time.

00:08:57   Who knows why it didn't work the first.

00:08:59   Like there's a lot of cool tech under there and you could build lots of interesting UIs

00:09:02   on top of it.

00:09:03   And the initial UI was fun and cool and interesting and had good ideas behind it and simplified

00:09:06   it.

00:09:07   But the way it's evolved or rather hasn't evolved is kind of depressing.

00:09:11   One more minor part in this, they do take snapshots before software updates as well.

00:09:15   I don't know if they do anything with that.

00:09:17   Like I don't know if there's any actual feature that says you don't like the software update you did. Don't worry

00:09:22   We took a whole snapshot of your disk and you can roll back to it right now

00:09:26   I don't think there's any UI to that, but if third-party tools

00:09:30   Have enough access to snapshots they could offer that option just by listing all your snapshots and same thing with time machine

00:09:36   There was a backup program. I don't know if it's still in development called backup loop. That was like hey time machine is cool

00:09:42   Why don't we make a cool powerful UI on top of it for?

00:09:46   People who want to nerd out a little bit more than is possible with the default UI

00:09:50   And that's the fun type of stuff. That's a third-party opportunity, but also at this point the built-in one should be better, too

00:09:56   I don't know. I I don't mind time machine, but I think it's because I'm almost never in time machine

00:10:01   So it doesn't have I don't have to deal with the chromium UI very often, but did you know about the dimmed red?

00:10:06   No, and the bright pink. No, you didn't know no I didn't but now I know and knowing is half the battle

00:10:12   - You don't know, that's the whole thing.

00:10:14   You didn't read this document, and even if you read it,

00:10:16   it will just bounce off your brain.

00:10:18   There is no way anybody will remember this.

00:10:21   - Fair enough.

00:10:23   This is not a sponsor, but we wanted to take a moment

00:10:25   out of our day to call your attention

00:10:28   to the AppCamp fundraiser.

00:10:29   AppCamp for Girls is a organization that's near and dear

00:10:32   to all three of our hearts.

00:10:34   We tend to sponsor their get-togethers at WWDC when we can,

00:10:38   and they are trying to expand to three new cities,

00:10:41   and they need a whole pile of money to do that

00:10:43   because doing this sort of thing is not cheap.

00:10:46   So we will put a link in the show notes

00:10:48   to a fundraiser on Indiegogo

00:10:51   that I have not yet had the opportunity to back

00:10:54   because I've been traveling for work,

00:10:56   but I will do so as soon as I am human again.

00:10:59   So anyway, they are only about a little under halfway there

00:11:03   as we record today, and it would be pretty awesome

00:11:07   if we made them all the way there

00:11:09   by the time we record next.

00:11:10   Hint, hint, hint, hint.

00:11:12   So AppCamp is a great organization.

00:11:14   It does really great work in trying to encourage young girls

00:11:17   to young women to explore technology

00:11:21   and try to maybe see if they have a future

00:11:24   in creating the kind of apps that Marco and I create.

00:11:27   And they're smart enough not to ask these young girls

00:11:30   to use Perl because then they would never want

00:11:33   to program ever again.

00:11:34   So if you want to give money to people

00:11:35   who don't program in Perl,

00:11:37   Please feel free to check out this link in the show notes and send them any of your money,

00:11:42   even a dollar would help, and it would mean a lot to all three of us.

00:11:45   You don't know they don't program in Perl.

00:11:46   They could all be using Perl.

00:11:47   There's probably some framework that lets you write to iOS apps in Perl, right?

00:11:51   That's the one for every other language.

00:11:53   I'm sure there's something on CPAN that makes it work.

00:11:55   That's how it is, right?

00:11:58   We are sponsored this week by Fracture, who prints photos in vivid color, edge-to-edge

00:12:03   on pieces of glass.

00:12:04   Visit fracture.me and use code ATP17

00:12:08   for 15% off your first order.

00:12:10   Fracture prints look incredible.

00:12:12   They really do print photos on pieces of glass

00:12:15   and they print it on the backside of a thin piece of glass

00:12:18   so the side that you see is very slightly glossy

00:12:21   but not so much that it's like too glarey or reflective.

00:12:23   Like you see the photo wonderfully,

00:12:25   their printing process really brings out the color

00:12:27   and contrast of the photos and they just look great.

00:12:30   They look modern.

00:12:32   Because they go edge to edge,

00:12:33   You don't need any kind of frame or mat.

00:12:35   It is a completed thing.

00:12:36   So like, you know, before you'd have to like

00:12:38   get things framed and it was expensive and time consuming,

00:12:41   kind of a pain and the things would get there,

00:12:42   be so heavy.

00:12:44   Fracture prints are nothing like that.

00:12:45   They are affordable, they are great values,

00:12:47   they look great, they go edge to edge,

00:12:49   and they're actually very lightweight

00:12:50   'cause the glass is nice and thin

00:12:52   and it's in front of this little kind of like

00:12:53   foam board backing to make it easier to hang.

00:12:56   So fracture prints are incredibly practical

00:12:58   and they look great.

00:13:00   We get tons of compliments on them all around our house.

00:13:02   We also give them as gifts very often.

00:13:04   If you have someone in your life

00:13:05   who you wanna give photos to as gifts,

00:13:07   maybe it's a grandparent or something like that,

00:13:09   that you know, giving photos of your family,

00:13:12   this is a very common thing.

00:13:13   And fracture prints are wonderful for gifts.

00:13:16   People love them.

00:13:17   The only thing is, every fracture is handmade.

00:13:20   And what that means is they can get backed up

00:13:22   in the holidays, 'cause they have people

00:13:23   actually making these things from scratch.

00:13:25   That's in the US, in Gainesville, Florida,

00:13:27   from US source materials in a carbon neutral factory.

00:13:30   So, all great things.

00:13:32   But if you're gonna order a Fracture as a holiday gift,

00:13:35   get your order in now.

00:13:37   Right now, as I record, the holiday season's

00:13:39   about a month away, but Fracture gets backed up

00:13:42   because everyone gives these as gifts.

00:13:43   So they want to let you know, they want me to let you know.

00:13:46   Please hurry up and get your orders in soon

00:13:49   because they are so good, they make such great gifts,

00:13:51   that they might get backed up.

00:13:53   So check it out today, and really I mean today,

00:13:55   not tomorrow, not next week, check it out actually today

00:13:58   so you can get there before the holiday rush

00:14:00   at fracture.me and use ATP 17 at checkout

00:14:04   to get 15% off your first order.

00:14:06   Thank you very much to Fracture for sponsoring our show.

00:14:11   - So let's talk about Ask ATP.

00:14:15   Nathan Walls writes in,

00:14:17   "Now that you have iPhones 10 in hand,"

00:14:19   is it iPhones 10?

00:14:21   I know that's the way they usually do it, God.

00:14:22   - No, it's iPhone 10S.

00:14:24   - Yeah, exactly.

00:14:25   I just know that the Apple guidance is always so bananas.

00:14:29   Anyway, now that you have iPhones 10 in hand, are you using or wanting to use a case with

00:14:32   it?

00:14:33   Which cases are you using?

00:14:34   Thanks.

00:14:35   I'll start off, if you recall, my iPhone 7 was the first phone in a long time that I

00:14:40   had naked, and I paid the price because I dropped it on the pavement and shattered my

00:14:45   first screen.

00:14:46   Luckily, I had AppleCare, and so that was taken care of.

00:14:50   And then I quickly scratched the screen within about two weeks of getting it replaced, which

00:14:53   is delightful.

00:14:55   Anyway, for the iPhone X, it's apparently,

00:14:59   I don't recall if we talked about this last episode,

00:15:00   but it's like $200 or something like that

00:15:02   to do a front screen replacement,

00:15:06   and something like $500 to do a back glass replacement.

00:15:11   - Yeah, something like that. - We did talk about it.

00:15:12   You're very tired, I can tell.

00:15:14   - Yeah, I am. - That's all right.

00:15:15   - I am dying.

00:15:16   But anyway, so the point is that it's extremely expensive

00:15:18   to replace anything on this phone.

00:15:20   I personally have not ordered AppleCare for my phone.

00:15:23   I've been debating it, and I don't think I will, which we can play this clip when I inevitably

00:15:28   break this phone in a few months, but I have put the official Apple leather case on it.

00:15:33   I do quite like the official Apple leather cases.

00:15:37   However, the thing that bothers me about most cases, including the Apple leather case, is

00:15:43   that it makes doing gestures from the edge of the screen considerably more difficult,

00:15:47   and that bums me out.

00:15:49   But otherwise, it's a nice case.

00:15:50   It's expensive.

00:15:51   It's like 50 bucks, but it's a nice case.

00:15:53   Marco, what do you got going on?

00:15:55   - I am also caseless.

00:15:57   That's almost caseless.

00:16:00   I bet you have thought of that many times.

00:16:02   Sorry.

00:16:03   So yeah, I'm also going caseless.

00:16:05   I too was cased only with the 6 and 6S,

00:16:09   not before or after.

00:16:12   The 7 I got in jet black 'cause it was grippy

00:16:14   and I love that.

00:16:15   The 10 is, with the glass back and the smooth metal sides,

00:16:21   I would say overall, so far, it does not seem as grippy as the iPhone 7, but it's not as

00:16:27   slippery as the 6 and 6s, so I'm a little...

00:16:30   - Well, slow down, though, slow down, though.

00:16:31   It is way grippier than my beautiful but bar of soap matte black, or whatever they called

00:16:38   it.

00:16:39   - Yeah, yeah.

00:16:40   - iPhone 7.

00:16:41   - Just black.

00:16:42   - Right, yeah, whatever it was called.

00:16:43   But the jet black is obviously a whole different animal.

00:16:45   I'm not trying to argue that, but if you happen to be coming from a matte black iPhone or

00:16:51   whatever the equivalent was,

00:16:53   that I would say that the iPhone X

00:16:55   is considerably more grippy than that,

00:16:58   but it sounds like you're saying, Marco,

00:16:59   it is less grippy than the Jet Black.

00:17:01   - That's what it feels like so far.

00:17:03   You know, it could just be 'cause like it's new

00:17:06   and doesn't have all my hand oil on it

00:17:07   from a year worth of hand oil,

00:17:09   which is really gross, but that's how it works.

00:17:11   It could be that, you know,

00:17:13   but compared to the Jet Black, it is not as grippy,

00:17:15   and it could also be that like while the glass

00:17:17   is kind of grippy, the sides are now just regular metal

00:17:21   again and so they're not. So it could be that I don't know. I

00:17:25   have considered looking into some kind of like film or

00:17:30   maybe like a little stick on like leather thing just for

00:17:34   the back of it with not even the sides like they may you

00:17:36   know they make just like kind of single panel decals or

00:17:39   stickers or protectors for phones generally. So I was

00:17:42   thinking about doing that just to make the back a little bit

00:17:44   for a small amount of protection.

00:17:46   I too did not get AppleCare as I explained last week.

00:17:50   So I figure, you know, I'll see how it goes.

00:17:54   If I drop it, everyone can make fun of me

00:17:56   and maybe I'll start spending $200 a year

00:17:59   on AppleCare from that point forward.

00:18:01   But, right, but until I start dropping my phones,

00:18:04   I'm coming out ahead by not doing that.

00:18:07   - You're still doing your math wrong.

00:18:09   You have to drop your phone enough times

00:18:11   to equal all the $200, all the money you would have paid

00:18:14   for all your phones.

00:18:15   It's not $200 for each one 'cause it used to be cheaper,

00:18:17   but you have to add up all that money,

00:18:18   and then if you wanna try to balance the scales,

00:18:21   you should really only start buying AppleCare

00:18:22   after you match that amount.

00:18:24   - Right, exactly, and so far I haven't had to do that yet.

00:18:27   And yeah, I would have to pay full price

00:18:30   for a lot of replacements to make my policy

00:18:32   worth reconsidering.

00:18:33   And also, cases are also part of that too.

00:18:36   Cases are 50 bucks at least for a decent one

00:18:39   from Apple or something, or a decent one from anybody else.

00:18:42   You're generally looking at around that price range.

00:18:44   So this stuff that you're paying

00:18:47   for all these protective things,

00:18:49   but you're paying a lot for that protection.

00:18:51   And so you really have to be breaking things

00:18:54   on a regular basis to make you come out ahead with that.

00:18:56   So anyway, I am caseless, you are caseless.

00:19:00   You are also caseless. (laughs)

00:19:05   - Well, no, no, I'm not caseless this time.

00:19:07   I was caseless. - Oh, that's right.

00:19:08   I'm rocking the black leather this time.

00:19:10   - Yeah, so how is it?

00:19:12   - It's like every other black leather case I've had.

00:19:15   I mean, I like it, it's very nice, but--

00:19:16   - Like about the same one that they've been making

00:19:18   since the six, basically?

00:19:19   - Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, absolutely right.

00:19:20   - That one was fun.

00:19:22   - Yeah, I mean, and I choose black because when it wears,

00:19:25   it doesn't really look any different.

00:19:27   I know there's a lot of people that like,

00:19:29   what is it, like saddle brown or whatever,

00:19:31   and once it gets worn, it kinda gets that,

00:19:35   I don't know, I don't know how to describe it.

00:19:37   It's not really patina, but it has that like look to it.

00:19:39   And I know a lot of people that really like that.

00:19:41   That's not really my cup of tea.

00:19:43   And I personally like a very quiet case

00:19:46   in the sense of visually quiet.

00:19:48   So I've always had black leather cases.

00:19:50   Mike Hurley is apparently,

00:19:52   I don't know if he's received it at this point,

00:19:53   but was looking into getting a bumper,

00:19:55   which actually sounded really interesting to me.

00:19:57   I don't think it would be what I would choose

00:19:59   because that, especially that back glass,

00:20:01   if you shatter that, oof, that's a bad day.

00:20:03   So I'm gonna stick with the black leather case

00:20:06   and we'll see how that goes.

00:20:09   - The other thing with any kind of case and bumper

00:20:11   is that it does interfere with the side gestures.

00:20:15   And even though, once you get one,

00:20:17   like I used my 6 and 6S the entire time I had them

00:20:20   with Apple's other case, and you do get used to it,

00:20:24   but it does make the swipe in from the side gesture

00:20:27   a little harder to do,

00:20:29   and it gives you a little less room to do it.

00:20:30   And also it just collects dust around that edge

00:20:32   and everything, I don't know,

00:20:34   I prefer not to use a case unless I really have to

00:20:36   or unless I feel like I really have to.

00:20:37   And so far with the 10, I don't think I'll need it.

00:20:41   The only thing that makes me nervous

00:20:43   is just how expensive it is to repair

00:20:45   and that it is a new size

00:20:47   that I'm still getting used to holding and using.

00:20:49   So, and we'll get to that later on in the show a little bit.

00:20:51   But so far, I think I'm gonna probably stay

00:20:55   either caseless or with some kind of minimal

00:20:58   like stick-on decal thing on the back

00:21:00   just to increase grip.

00:21:02   - All right, moving on.

00:21:03   you do not have an iPhone X in hand, is that correct?

00:21:05   I thought you were going to move on like last week where Marco edited out the part where

00:21:08   I said whether or not I got AppleCare+.

00:21:10   Wow.

00:21:11   Just move right on, yes.

00:21:14   Let's talk about the iPhone Xs, Marco and Casey get to stuff.

00:21:17   It was all about your wife, it wasn't even about yours.

00:21:19   So it wasn't, you know.

00:21:21   That's the iPhone X we're talking about, it's the only one I have, I didn't get one.

00:21:25   Anyway, to reiterate, we got AppleCare+ because my wife drops her phone, she dropped her previous

00:21:30   one twice.

00:21:31   Also on the leather case, the leather case for the 7 is way better than the leather case

00:21:35   for the 6 was.

00:21:37   Because they changed to like metal volume buttons that poke out through, whereas the

00:21:41   6 had like these lumps in the leather.

00:21:42   I don't know what the leather case for the 10 is, but I can tell you that the leather

00:21:46   case for the 7 is a big upgrade over the 6 for all the buttons.

00:21:49   And I heard people saying they really liked the leather case for the 10 that it had like

00:21:53   aluminum buttons or whatever.

00:21:55   Same thing with the 7 case, and that is much much better than the lumps.

00:21:59   As for cases, I've always used a case on all of my iOS things.

00:22:03   Whoa, whoa, whoa, you've used a case and?

00:22:07   And what?

00:22:08   And whatever I saw, you had like a little baggie that you would put your phone in as

00:22:12   well.

00:22:13   Oh yeah, no, I do have that as well.

00:22:14   Oh, you had a little pouch.

00:22:15   Yep.

00:22:16   Yeah, I use the pouch mostly, I mean, I don't know why I started using it.

00:22:18   I think I got it from my iPod touches.

00:22:20   Mostly just so I can shove it in my pocket without worrying about anything hitting the

00:22:23   screen and also it basically cleans the screen every time I do that.

00:22:28   Around the house I don't use it, obviously, right?

00:22:29   It's only when I'm going out or when it's in my pocket.

00:22:33   Most of the reason I'm getting the cases is for hand grip and for surface grip.

00:22:38   But in the modern era, I think the main reason I probably will never go without a case despite

00:22:43   everything Marco said about gestures, which is true, is because it evens out the camera

00:22:48   bump.

00:22:49   And that is super true on the X, as we will talk about.

00:22:52   So yes, I'm using a case on my iPhone 7.

00:22:55   My wife got silicone cases for her iPhone X,

00:22:59   and because she is impatient and loves different colors,

00:23:01   she got two of them just like she did.

00:23:03   But I think maybe she got three for a 6S Plus.

00:23:06   Anyway, silicone case looks good.

00:23:08   - Yeah, actually, the leveling out the camera bump

00:23:10   is a real thing, and that's another reason,

00:23:12   'cause the camera bump on the 6 is noticeably larger,

00:23:16   I think, than the previous ones,

00:23:17   and so for the first time, I'm actually interested

00:23:20   in leveling out the camera bump where I didn't care before.

00:23:23   All right, so we have our next to ask ATP from Kapila Wimalaratne.

00:23:27   Hopefully I got that right.

00:23:28   "Do you think Siri lagging behind Google Assistant will eventually hurt iPhone sales?"

00:23:33   And this individual says, "I'm currently very tempted by the Pixel 2."

00:23:37   I don't know.

00:23:39   It's an interesting question.

00:23:40   I can tell you that I've gone through—I feel like my feelings about Siri go through

00:23:46   kind of a sine wave, where the peak of the sine wave is like begrudgingly accepting how

00:23:52   bad Siri is, and right now I'm in a valley because I friggin' hate Siri and I feel like

00:23:56   it's constantly giving me wrong data or not understanding what I'm trying to tell it.

00:24:01   But I don't have an Alexa in the house, I don't have a Google Home in the house, I don't

00:24:05   really ever use any Android or Amazon devices, so I don't really know what I'm missing. And

00:24:10   because of that, for me, I mean, obviously I'm all in on Apple anyway, but I don't think

00:24:16   for me and people who don't have like these multicultural households, if you will, in

00:24:22   terms of, you know, assistance, I don't know that anyone really realizes how crappy Siri

00:24:28   is, including myself, but I'm curious to hear for like you guys that have multiple, you

00:24:34   know, talking tubes in the house, do you think that this is a much bigger risk?

00:24:39   For me, it depends on what you're using it for.

00:24:44   For me, Siri is just one part of why I choose Apple products

00:24:49   and why I love the iPhone so much

00:24:52   and why I use the iPhone over other phones.

00:24:56   I think Siri not being as good as it should be

00:24:59   is a real problem, but it's a real problem

00:25:01   that is of different degrees of severity

00:25:04   depending on the product you're talking about.

00:25:06   So for something like the HomePod,

00:25:08   That's a big problem.

00:25:09   If Siri is not somehow miraculously way better

00:25:14   and way more consistent and way less sassy

00:25:16   and way less personality on the HomePod

00:25:19   than it is everywhere else right now,

00:25:21   then the HomePod's gonna be, I think,

00:25:23   really annoying to use in practice.

00:25:25   Because when that's the only interface

00:25:27   you have to something, it really has to be

00:25:30   good and consistent and smart

00:25:33   and it has to do the right thing every time.

00:25:36   And that's what the Amazon Echo does.

00:25:39   Like, the Echo's really, really good.

00:25:42   It's really consistent.

00:25:44   It hardly ever fails.

00:25:46   And when it does fail, it doesn't do so

00:25:48   with a cutesy response where it's trying to be funny

00:25:51   that really just makes you wanna set the world on fire.

00:25:54   Siri, in that kind of context,

00:25:57   is gonna be a problem, I think.

00:26:00   But, you know, for my phone,

00:26:01   the other reasons I choose the iPhone

00:26:05   are so much greater than the variance between Siri

00:26:09   and the other voice assistants,

00:26:12   that the other reasons will always overpower that difference.

00:26:15   Even if the iPhone didn't have Siri at all,

00:26:18   even if it did not have any voice interface at all,

00:26:22   I would still choose the iPhone over anything else,

00:26:25   just because the rest of it is so compelling

00:26:27   compared to that.

00:26:27   Now, other people might have different responses to that,

00:26:29   but for me, and I think for a lot of people,

00:26:32   I think the voice features are really secondary

00:26:37   and they're convenience features on a phone.

00:26:39   Most of what you do on a phone is not

00:26:41   through that voice interface for most people.

00:26:43   So, again, your use case may vary,

00:26:46   but for me, I want Siri to be better for lots of reasons,

00:26:51   and I think it needs to be better for lots of reasons,

00:26:55   but it's not gonna kill iPhone sales

00:26:57   in a meaningful way if it's not.

00:26:59   So you missed the key booby trap in this question here, which is the word "eventually." Yes,

00:27:06   that's right, it's everybody's favorite.

00:27:07   On an infinite timescale? We need like an infinite timescale horn or something.

00:27:12   Yeah.

00:27:13   A gong.

00:27:14   Do you think Siri lagging behind Google Assistant will eventually hurt iPhone sales? So there's

00:27:18   two aspects to this and the reason I picked this question.

00:27:20   I wonder if I can fit a gong in my office. I have the bell up here. The bell is nice

00:27:24   and small. A gong is not small.

00:27:26   Infinite timescale gong.

00:27:27   Yeah.

00:27:28   get a little desk gong, but I mean, if you're going to get a gong, get a real one, you know,

00:27:31   get like the one like on the floor stand, you know.

00:27:34   Your accessories need to be under control here. So the eventually part of this, if voice

00:27:41   assistants become more and more important on phones and Siri continues to lag behind

00:27:49   Google Assistant, then I think your calculus might change, Marco. If everyone else is talking

00:27:53   to the phones constantly and get an awesome response from it and it's like the most convenient

00:27:56   way to do a whole bunch of things, but Siri continues to lag behind.

00:28:01   That may change your calculus on exactly how important you feel it is.

00:28:04   Not that it's going to make you buy an Android phone or whatever.

00:28:06   But the other angle on this is that Google Assistant is available on iOS.

00:28:10   The only difference is that Apple privileges Siri to be the one with the good system integration.

00:28:15   So Apple's ultimate out, if it can never get Siri to be as good as Google Assistant, and

00:28:21   if voice assistants on phones become much more important than they are today, Apple

00:28:26   always has the ability to say, assuming Google deigns to continue to be on iOS, which I assume

00:28:32   they will because if they're on now and they have 80% market share, I don't see why they

00:28:35   wouldn't be forever, is, "Okay, we will just make APIs so that any voice assistant has

00:28:42   the same kind of integration that Siri does, and then voila, your iPhone has just as good

00:28:46   a voice assistant as Google because it's the same voice assistant."

00:28:49   That would be kind of a failure scenario and show that they couldn't hack it with Siri,

00:28:53   But I think it is likely that voice assistants will become more important on phones than

00:28:59   they are today.

00:29:00   I'm not sure how far it'll go, but certainly it'll become more important.

00:29:03   And more important, and to Casey's point about us having cylinders in the house, I continue

00:29:07   to have really good customer stat, as Tim would say, for my silly Google cylinder that

00:29:13   mostly I ignore the existence of.

00:29:15   But every once in a while, in addition to asking you to set timers and do math for me,

00:29:19   right, I will yell from three rooms away.

00:29:22   even yell just like this is the most recent thing where I was blown away with

00:29:26   it like I'm in my TV room but just like two rooms away it's like kind of on the

00:29:30   other side of the house but on the same floor and we were having debate about

00:29:34   the ages of actors on a show we were watching and I just asked to the air in

00:29:39   a slightly louder voice than normal but not screaming you know name of actor how

00:29:44   old how is this actor and how was that actor it gave me the answers like it

00:29:48   didn't say I can't find it a person by that name or it didn't misspelled or

00:29:52   mistranslated because it's powered by Google and Google is the ultimate engine

00:29:56   for typing a bunch of characters that you think might approximate the spelling

00:30:00   of a celebrity's name and because they're a celebrity it goes "I think I

00:30:03   know who you meant even though you got that name totally wrong" and it works

00:30:06   over voice too. That's not a very, you know, amazing thing to do but if I had

00:30:12   taken out my phone and asked Siri to do it or asked the HomePod I can just

00:30:15   imagine it picking a name for my contacts that sounds like the celebrity

00:30:20   name and giving me their age or saying there's no birthday information or saying it couldn't

00:30:23   provide that information. So I think the lead is real and I think it will eventually be

00:30:29   a problem for Apple, but I think Apple has the ability to turn back the clock to 2007

00:30:33   and say, "Google powers all of our cool cloud stuff because they're great at that,

00:30:36   and we make the hardware in the OS," which would be bad as far as Apple's concerned,

00:30:40   but it's always there as an out.

00:30:42   David Schiesser The other thing I would say, though, is like

00:30:44   in the context of phone sales, which is what the question was really about, we've had

00:30:49   voice input on laptops now for a while, but it hasn't really resulted in people talking

00:30:54   to their laptops very often. The primary way that people interact with their laptops by

00:31:00   far is still typing and looking at things on the screen.

00:31:04   My mom talks to her laptop a lot more than you would think. I think there is a kind of

00:31:10   a divide of traditional computer users and people for whom even crappy voice is better

00:31:17   than mouse and keyboard. It's not widespread, you're right, most people don't talk to their

00:31:20   computers, but if voice assistants become better, I feel like that could start to change

00:31:24   too.

00:31:25   - Well yeah, but I'm saying like it's, we've had it now for a while and it's still, while

00:31:29   some people do it, it still is not the primary way most people interact with it. And phones,

00:31:36   we've now had voice assistants on phones for one day longer than Steve Jobs has been gone.

00:31:42   So it's a while now, and they still have not become

00:31:47   the primary interface for interacting with phones.

00:31:50   And I feel like every form factor of computing device,

00:31:55   you know, they become compelling, they become useful

00:31:57   and popular to be used in certain ways,

00:32:00   and you know, the laptop is established as like

00:32:03   the mainstream PC thing, and there's a way you use a laptop.

00:32:06   It's with a keyboard and a trackpad,

00:32:08   and that's been established for some time,

00:32:10   and nothing's really going to change

00:32:11   meaningfully probably.

00:32:13   A phone has been established to be a screen

00:32:17   that's handheld or approximately handheld

00:32:20   that you can touch with your finger

00:32:22   and do multi-touch gestures and type on the glass

00:32:25   and everything and have that be the primary interface.

00:32:28   You can do other things with them.

00:32:29   You can control it by voice.

00:32:30   You can do other methods with these things,

00:32:33   but those have been the primary interfaces.

00:32:34   And over time, we really haven't seen anything to suggest

00:32:38   that these basic form factor categories

00:32:42   and the way you interact with them

00:32:44   really meaningfully changes,

00:32:46   or dramatically changes over time.

00:32:49   You know, a laptop that you buy today,

00:32:51   while the keyboard sucks and it has no ports,

00:32:53   is roughly the same proportions and form factor

00:32:56   as laptops we had 15 years ago, it's just better.

00:32:59   You know, but it's the same general thing,

00:33:01   the same approximate size, the same approximate,

00:33:04   you know, class of device,

00:33:06   and you interact with it roughly the same way.

00:33:09   So a phone, over time, if you think about,

00:33:11   even on your infinite timescale argument,

00:33:13   phones might be replaced by something else down the road.

00:33:17   Eventually they probably will.

00:33:19   They're pretty damn compelling now,

00:33:21   and they probably will be for quite some time.

00:33:24   A phone's primary interface is very likely

00:33:27   to remain touch for a very long time,

00:33:29   probably for the entire rest of the time

00:33:32   that phones are relevant devices that people carry.

00:33:34   It doesn't matter what the primary interface is though.

00:33:36   Like I agree with you.

00:33:37   Like it's got a, it's a giant screen that you touch.

00:33:39   Like of course that's going to be how you're going to interact with.

00:33:41   But if voice becomes a more important part of how you interact with the phone,

00:33:46   doesn't mean with the primary way.

00:33:47   It doesn't mean you stop touching the screen.

00:33:48   You're always going to touch screen.

00:33:49   It's the whole point.

00:33:49   Like you said, it's in your hand.

00:33:50   It's a little thing in your hand until it's replaced by like magic

00:33:52   eyeglasses or some other thing in your ear or something or whatever.

00:33:55   Yes, you're going to be touching it primarily.

00:33:57   But imagine, I imagine very frequently how much better voice could be when I'm

00:34:02   driving a car and I hear my little phone being in my pocket, I would love to say, "read that

00:34:07   text for me." But I can't say that. I can't even say, "hey Siri, read that text for me,"

00:34:12   because it won't hear me because it's in my pocket, but it's connected to Bluetooth through

00:34:14   my car, so it's using my car's crappy microphone. Like, it could be better. And for, you know,

00:34:21   when voice didn't exist on iOS devices, people were just touching them entirely, right? There

00:34:24   was no Siri, right? When voice was added, it didn't really change our lives that much,

00:34:29   except maybe we use set timers and stuff,

00:34:31   but it radically changed the way my mother uses iOS devices

00:34:33   and Macs, because her primary typing interface is

00:34:36   speaking to her devices now.

00:34:39   Doesn't that mean that the primary way she uses her laptop

00:34:41   or her phone is by voice?

00:34:42   Of course not.

00:34:43   She's using the mouse or the trackpad or her fingers

00:34:46   to use the iOS device.

00:34:47   But any time text input comes along, she dictates it.

00:34:50   I can tell, because I see the Dictatos in all of her stuff,

00:34:53   and I've seen her do it--

00:34:54   Dictatos.

00:34:55   You know where I picked the wrong word?

00:34:56   Like a homonym or whatever?

00:34:58   I'm picturing that as a vegetable even though I know what you meant but it's a little

00:35:02   bit tictatus.

00:35:03   Yeah.

00:35:04   Sometimes it's funny you have to kind of sound it out to figure out what she was supposed

00:35:05   to be.

00:35:06   She doesn't go back and edit because editing would require her to try to like place the

00:35:08   cursor in iOS on her phone and it, you know, it's not going to work with her vision and

00:35:13   her fingernails.

00:35:14   It's just not going to happen.

00:35:16   But I think that really has changed how she's done things.

00:35:18   And if you said you can have a computer or a phone but it won't do, you know, speech

00:35:23   to text, she would not like it.

00:35:25   So all I'm saying is that I think it could potentially become more important.

00:35:29   And if Google Assistant gets to the point where I can do things like, "Who just texted

00:35:34   me?

00:35:35   Was that my wife?"

00:35:36   Like if I can interact with it in kind of a naturalistic way, in a regular tone of voice,

00:35:39   and have an expectation that it'll know what the heck I'm talking about and respond in

00:35:42   a reasonable way, that is a game changer, right?

00:35:47   You cross some threshold.

00:35:48   Just like touch responsiveness, cross some threshold with the iPhone, it's like, "Oh,

00:35:51   I see how touch is supposed to be."

00:35:53   voice. It's not there yet, but I feel like it could get there and become a more important part

00:35:57   of how your phone works. And if you saw everyone else driving with their Android phones, interacting,

00:36:01   doing those interactions, not as their primary way of using their phone, but just like sometimes

00:36:04   it's, that's the most convenient way to do stuff. If you see that happening and your iPhone can't

00:36:10   do it because every time you try to talk to it, it like bloops at the wrong time or like tells

00:36:13   you it can't help you or runs like a web search and says, I found five things about, is that from

00:36:18   from my wife.

00:36:19   (scoffs)

00:36:20   (laughs)

00:36:21   - Yeah, that's fair.

00:36:22   And I do, you know, you're right that like,

00:36:24   if there's radical differences between Siri

00:36:27   and its competitors, that does start to become an issue,

00:36:29   but it's only an issue to the degree

00:36:32   that voice input is important to that device.

00:36:35   And so, if voice input is always the secondary way

00:36:38   you're interacting with this thing,

00:36:39   if you're mostly still touching it,

00:36:40   and voice is just like the secondary set of features,

00:36:43   it's way less important whether the voice input

00:36:45   is mediocre or excellent.

00:36:47   And so I think Siri can continue,

00:36:49   and because the rest of the phone is so much better

00:36:53   than its competitors, for almost everybody,

00:36:55   for almost every recent, sorry Android people,

00:36:58   that's the way it is,

00:36:59   because the primary interface is so advanced

00:37:04   and so compelling, the secondary interface, I think,

00:37:07   has way more tolerance to be mediocre

00:37:10   and still not make people change their buying habits.

00:37:13   - I'm always depressed that I can't even get

00:37:16   immediate family to get on board with iPhones.

00:37:20   And this is the thing where I start to worry that even though it seems clear to us that

00:37:24   iOS has advantages, like, you know, advantages that we appreciate, it's very clear that they

00:37:30   are advantages that most of the rest of the world does not appreciate.

00:37:34   Or at least they do not appreciate them enough to pay for them.

00:37:37   So I, you know, my sister has an Android phone and she replaced it with another Android phone,

00:37:42   and I couldn't convince her to get an iPhone.

00:37:43   You know why?

00:37:44   And I guess she said, well, I got this Android phone,

00:37:46   and it was $200, but I got $150 Costco rebate.

00:37:49   So it even cost less than that.

00:37:52   Can you show me the iPhone I can buy for $150?

00:37:55   And I was like, no, I can't show you the iPhone

00:37:58   you can buy for $150.

00:38:00   And there's no way I could convince her

00:38:02   that a difference between $50 net and $800 for an iPhone,

00:38:07   but don't you see how much better iOS is?

00:38:09   It's like, I do not see $750 worth of difference.

00:38:13   And that's why Android has 80% market share.

00:38:15   Phones are such a commodity now

00:38:18   that people just want a phone

00:38:19   and occasionally they want a new phone.

00:38:20   But it's like, who buys batteries?

00:38:22   It's from the Seinfeld episode.

00:38:23   Like, oh, you pay money for your phone?

00:38:24   I got this phone for 50 bucks and it's fine.

00:38:26   I got this phone for 50 bucks and it's fine.

00:38:28   Might as well be the Android slogan.

00:38:30   Like it is an incredibly powerful force.

00:38:32   (laughing)

00:38:33   Like you cannot, there's nothing you can say to someone

00:38:36   who says I got this phone for $50 and it's fine.

00:38:37   'Cause they don't care about phones.

00:38:39   They're not phone enthusiasts.

00:38:40   They're not phone power users.

00:38:41   They just want a phone that lets them do phone things and it's $50.

00:38:45   And there's nothing you can say to them to say that this $1,000 iPhone X that reads your

00:38:49   face like magic is like, "Don't you want this now?"

00:38:52   It's like, "Mm, maybe if I have infinite money, but I got this for $150 and it's fine."

00:38:56   Anyway, that's a different show.

00:38:58   That's not the show.

00:38:59   This is the show where we're about to talk about how much we love our iPhone X.

00:39:02   So anyway, spoilers.

00:39:04   Well, we still have one more AskATP to go through.

00:39:09   Fernando would like to know,

00:39:11   "Is Marco getting a Sony A7R III

00:39:14   "since they addressed the battery concerns

00:39:15   "he had with the Mark II?"

00:39:18   So my understanding is your A7R II,

00:39:20   if memory serves, the battery was just woefully

00:39:24   under suited for the device

00:39:27   and you were charging constantly.

00:39:28   So is that inaccurate retelling

00:39:31   and does the A7R III fix that?

00:39:33   - Oh, by the way, before you answer,

00:39:34   I love how this question calls

00:39:37   the previous version of the Sony camera,

00:39:38   the Mark II, that's kind of crossing the streams there,

00:39:41   it's not the Mark II.

00:39:42   - Yeah, that's the little Canon lingo,

00:39:44   and before that many other things.

00:39:45   Anyway, the A7R II, I had two main problems with it.

00:39:49   The battery life was one, and the other was

00:39:52   the general speed of handling.

00:39:55   Things like reviewing an image that I had just shot,

00:39:59   or just speed and responsiveness of the controls

00:40:02   and the system and shooting and everything else.

00:40:05   it was capturing those giant 42 megapixel images

00:40:09   off that sensor, the camera's image processor,

00:40:12   I think, just couldn't handle that very well.

00:40:14   And so a lot of operations on the 5D Mark,

00:40:17   or sorry, wow, on the A7R II are just really sluggish.

00:40:21   And when I switched back to Canon

00:40:24   and I got the 5D Mark IV instead,

00:40:25   it's night and day difference.

00:40:28   I mean, it isn't as many megapixels.

00:40:30   I think it's only 30, you know, quote,

00:40:32   only thirty instead of forty two, but processing those

00:40:37   pixels and navigating and shooting and reviewing the

00:40:41   images and zooming into the images to see if they're sharp

00:40:43   and everything like it's just a million times faster on the

00:40:46   five d mark four than it is on the a seven r two. So the a

00:40:50   seven r three we just announced. I don't know if

00:40:52   it's out yet, but it's either way it's it's out shortly or

00:40:55   now and I when I sold my seven r two to Stephen Hackett, I

00:41:02   I kept my two favorite lenses, the 55 and the 35 primes,

00:41:07   because I thought, you know, lens resale value

00:41:10   is not gonna change much in a year,

00:41:12   and if I end up buying back into the Sony ecosystem,

00:41:15   you know, I have these lenses, I don't have to rebuy them.

00:41:18   So I kinda left the door open

00:41:19   that I could go back if I wanted to.

00:41:22   The a7R III promises to, it uses the new batteries

00:41:27   that the a9 introduced, and the a9 is like

00:41:29   a fast sports camera that I,

00:41:30   that it's not really what I'd be looking for.

00:41:33   It uses the same batteries that does,

00:41:36   which have allegedly, I think like two and a half times

00:41:39   the capacity of the old ones,

00:41:41   and allegedly the A7R III also has a faster image processor.

00:41:45   But until it's actually out,

00:41:49   and until people can actually review it,

00:41:51   and maybe I can rent one,

00:41:53   it's hard to quantify that.

00:41:54   It's like, well, how much faster is it?

00:41:57   And how much better are those batteries?

00:41:59   If it's only a little bit better,

00:42:01   that's not good enough for me.

00:42:03   If it can make it to the speed and responsiveness level

00:42:06   of a Canon full-frame SLR,

00:42:08   and with the battery life that could be similar,

00:42:11   then we'll talk.

00:42:12   But it's too early to know that yet.

00:42:14   I am very tempted though, because in the Canon world,

00:42:17   while I do absolutely love the speed and the handling

00:42:22   and the basically infinite battery life

00:42:24   that full-size SLRs have compared to mirrorless,

00:42:27   I do miss those 42 megapixels when I try to shoot myself a new 5K wallpaper, and I also

00:42:34   miss the in-body stabilization to make every lens stabilize, basically.

00:42:40   So I'm curious to rent one when it comes out, whenever I can get my hands on a rental.

00:42:45   It might be a while.

00:42:47   But I'm not rushing out to buy it yet, because I think the most likely outcome here is that

00:42:54   it will be better, but not better enough.

00:42:58   We are sponsored this week by Warby Parker. Go to warbyparker.com/ATP to order your free

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00:44:53   [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:44:57   It's iPhone time.

00:44:58   It sounds like all three households have received at least one iPhone X.

00:45:03   In the case of our house, I got one and Aaron got one.

00:45:07   I got the whatever we're calling it-- whatever the Apple term is for black,

00:45:12   256. Aaron got whatever the Apple term is for white, 256. Marco, how did your house

00:45:19   end up?

00:45:20   >> Uh, white, 256.

00:45:21   >> Uh, and then John, how did you end up?

00:45:24   >> I didn't receive a phone. I had to go out and get it. If you remember recall, I

00:45:28   ordered a phone, but it was like two to three weeks wait. But in the days since ordering

00:45:35   the phone, I've been using the store app to try to do in-store pickup. And I forget

00:45:39   like one weekend morning or at 8 a.m.

00:45:41   I did my typical order and went to see what's available for in-store pickup.

00:45:45   And I saw that my local Apple Store has the phone that I wanted.

00:45:48   So I said please reserve that for me. I will come pick it up at the appointed time.

00:45:52   And we did. And we came and picked up the appointed time.

00:45:54   Now it was tricky because this is my wife's phone, remember.

00:45:57   She had an outstanding order.

00:45:59   And we did it the Verizon way where you enter all the information so that when you get the phone

00:46:02   it's basically already assigned to her phone number.

00:46:04   When you take it out of the box and activate it, it deactivates your other phone and everything, right?

00:46:08   Right like it was that's we had that in process

00:46:11   It would not let me reserve for in-store pickup a phone with her same number on it

00:46:16   Right because it says you already have a phone that's you know in process the only way you can do this

00:46:20   It said basically was to receive the order and then like I don't know return it or something

00:46:25   I like it didn't even give you the option to say if you can't see other order

00:46:28   We'll let you go through this order it said no you cannot do another order until that order arrives or whatever so instead I

00:46:35   I ordered the iPhone X for me with my telephone number because my wife just wanted to get

00:46:41   the phone.

00:46:42   She's like, "Just do it.

00:46:43   Just do whatever it takes to get the phone.

00:46:44   We'll sort it out afterwards."

00:46:45   And so we did.

00:46:46   We ordered it with my phone number and my thing and took the iPhone X, went to the store

00:46:49   to pick it up, took it out of the box.

00:46:51   It activated as my phone.

00:46:52   It deactivated my phone.

00:46:53   Then we did some SIM swapping.

00:46:55   And a couple of minutes later, we were busily updating the stupid thing to iOS 11.1 because

00:47:00   it shipped with 11.0.1.

00:47:03   I'm restarting from a backup and completely forgetting to do the watch thing which we'll discuss in a little bit.

00:47:07   But all in all, she eventually got her, whatever the hell it is, black space grey 256 that now is correctly assigned to her telephone number.

00:47:17   And I'm back on my iPhone 7.

00:47:21   Alright, I'm going to just start with some of my impressions and if you guys let me I'll carry on until I'm done.

00:47:28   But in all likelihood we're going to end up just all of us talking about everything.

00:47:32   So I'll wait before you begin the point I wanted to make about the in-store pickup

00:47:36   If you have an order with Apple and you're waiting like oh man

00:47:38   I gotta wait three weeks just every day in the morning

00:47:40   Go to the Apple Store app on iOS try to order it and see it and do in-store pickup

00:47:45   It's before you complete the order

00:47:47   It will show you what stores have the model the model and size available in your area available for pickup

00:47:52   There's a lot of availability every single day new stuff comes in every single day in the morning. Just do that

00:47:57   It's really easy to get a phone for local pickup

00:48:02   before your one that you ordered comes.

00:48:03   You can always just cancel your order, which is what we did.

00:48:05   So I would encourage everyone

00:48:06   who's being impatient with their phone, do that.

00:48:08   Look for in-store pickup every day.

00:48:10   - So initial impressions at the time,

00:48:12   I tried to take some very, very, very brief notes.

00:48:16   It's heavy, or at least I feel like it's heavy.

00:48:18   Not bad heavy, just, oh, this is heavier, kinda heavy.

00:48:23   Curiously though, the size doesn't act,

00:48:29   I don't get actively reminded that it's bigger,

00:48:32   if that makes sense.

00:48:33   Like if I think about it for a half second,

00:48:34   oh yeah, this feels bigger than what I'm used to.

00:48:36   But it's not like the plus club

00:48:38   where I feel like I'm holding a dinner tray.

00:48:40   It's just, it's close enough to my old one

00:48:44   that it feels about the same.

00:48:46   Do you feel similarly,

00:48:47   or do you feel like you definitely notice the size, Marco?

00:48:50   - So I took notes as I was like experiencing it,

00:48:53   just so I could get some opinions down.

00:48:55   My first two notes are, it looks great period,

00:48:59   it's heavy period.

00:49:00   (laughing)

00:49:02   That's my first two, my initial reaction to it.

00:49:05   Very, very clear.

00:49:06   I actually just for the sake of comparison,

00:49:08   I just pulled my iPhone 7 out of the drawer.

00:49:10   And first of all, man this is way grippier.

00:49:13   Jet flying iPhone 7, no question, way grippier.

00:49:18   But yeah, the weight difference is immediately apparent.

00:49:21   Going either direction, it's definitely a weighty phone.

00:49:25   But I will say about the size, I agree with you,

00:49:28   that it does not feel like a plus phone.

00:49:32   I will say, though, it is like having a regular iPhone 7

00:49:37   in your pocket and in other places,

00:49:40   like in docks and in cars and in cup holders.

00:49:43   It feels like an iPhone 7 physically,

00:49:46   but when actually using it, it feels like using a plus

00:49:50   because it's so much harder to reach things.

00:49:54   - I see your point.

00:49:55   - So to summarize, it's like having a plus in your hand,

00:49:59   but a seven in your pocket.

00:50:01   - I mostly agree with that, but I think in my hand

00:50:04   that in my pocket, my main impression of it

00:50:07   is that it's taller.

00:50:09   I know it's not actually thinner, but because it's taller,

00:50:12   when I mentally envision it and think about holding it,

00:50:14   I think, oh, that's the one that's skinnier

00:50:16   than my iPhone 7 but taller.

00:50:18   It's not, right, but because it's taller,

00:50:20   that's my impression, and Margot's 100% right with,

00:50:23   OK, that's how it feels as a physical object.

00:50:25   What happens when you start trying to touch a screen

00:50:27   and you're like, oh, there's a lot more screen

00:50:29   than there used to be, and some of it's harder to reach?

00:50:31   - I can get behind that.

00:50:33   I do feel like the width is the thing that I noticed most,

00:50:38   or that makes me most uncomfortable.

00:50:40   It's not, I don't feel like,

00:50:41   I don't have numbers in front of me,

00:50:42   it's not egregiously wider than what I'm used to,

00:50:45   but it's wide enough that it's just

00:50:47   ever so slightly uncomfortable.

00:50:49   And I think Marco, you're 100% right,

00:50:51   that yeah, the screen is big enough

00:50:54   that this is really a two-hand phone,

00:50:56   but I think because I just knew

00:50:59   that the screen was going to be much bigger,

00:51:00   that I was like mentally prepped for that,

00:51:03   but I was not mentally or physically prepped

00:51:05   for it being noticeably wider.

00:51:08   And if there's ever a time that I'm reminded

00:51:10   about the physical differences of the phone,

00:51:12   it's because I'm trying to hold it

00:51:14   and I feel like it's just a hint wider than I want it to be.

00:51:18   - It also feels thicker to me.

00:51:19   It may just be because my wife's got a silicone case,

00:51:21   which might be thicker than the leather one that I'm used to.

00:51:25   And I have no idea if it actually is thicker than the 7, but yeah, this is just how it

00:51:29   feels.

00:51:30   When I think about the 10 in the silicone case versus the 7 in the leather, like I said,

00:51:33   the opposite of Casey, that I feel like the 10 is skinnier, even though it isn't, and

00:51:37   like, not as wide, right?

00:51:39   And I also have the impression that the 10 is thicker.

00:51:42   I didn't notice the weight as much as you two.

00:51:44   I recognize that it is heavier, and I guess if I did them side by side I would notice

00:51:47   that, but just having the 10 by itself, I don't notice the weight as much.

00:51:51   I noticed that it's thicker and taller.

00:51:53   - It is thicker.

00:51:54   I just put them on a desk with their Kimbermans

00:51:56   hanging off to normalize for the non-bump space.

00:51:59   And yeah, it is thicker noticeably.

00:52:01   I will say though, like I don't actually,

00:52:02   like when I'm not doing a flat on the desk comparison test,

00:52:06   it doesn't read to me as thicker.

00:52:08   - Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:52:11   I agree with what you said, Marco, that it's beautiful.

00:52:14   One of the first things I noticed,

00:52:15   and somebody else had said this on Twitter,

00:52:17   and I don't recall who it was,

00:52:19   But they had said it looks maybe it was panzerino. They had said that it looks as though

00:52:23   The screen is photoshopped onto the device you're holding and I don't know if I would have character

00:52:30   Characterized it that way had I not read it already, but that was a perfect description of it that

00:52:38   It seems like the screen is just photoshopped onto this like object that you're holding it is so

00:52:46   I'm assuming it's just that it's so close to the glass, even closer than it ever has

00:52:50   been.

00:52:51   I can't wait until they actually get a screen on the surface of something, because this

00:52:54   is exactly what we used to say, like when they did the fused glass on the 4.

00:52:57   I was like, "Wow, the pixels are cutting, they're so close to your fingers."

00:53:00   And it's true, over time, the pixels have been getting closer to your fingers, and this

00:53:03   is the closest yet, but I definitely think it was slightly overblown to say that it looked

00:53:07   like it was Photoshop on.

00:53:08   Yes, it does look like it's closer than other phones, but it doesn't feel to me as if I'm

00:53:13   Running my fingers over a magazine picture cut out of a magazine right like it doesn't feel like the picture the pixels are on the

00:53:19   Surface they're just barely below it. Yeah either way. Yeah, it just I think it's beautiful the screen looks great

00:53:26   I am I don't have a good enough eye to be able to tell tell you anything about color reproduction or anything like that

00:53:31   You don't notice the blacks. You know notice the black levels. You don't watch a movie on it

00:53:35   No

00:53:36   I haven't really watched

00:53:37   With credits in a dark room that has a black screen with a white title in the middle of yeah

00:53:41   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:42   - And then hold up your seven with the same movie

00:53:43   and realize the seven is showing a gray background

00:53:45   with white text in the middle.

00:53:46   - Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

00:53:48   I just don't think I'm discerning enough

00:53:51   to be wowed by that until, to your point,

00:53:53   I do a side-to-side test, or side-by-side test.

00:53:56   - And it does HDR too.

00:53:58   I realize that this iPhone X is the only HDR screen

00:54:00   I have in my house.

00:54:01   I watch some movies on it.

00:54:04   I watch, try to find some HDR movies on iTunes.

00:54:06   It looks pretty good.

00:54:08   - Turns out.

00:54:10   But yeah, the screen looks great.

00:54:12   I will say that when I was on the plane earlier today,

00:54:15   I happened to be sitting in the middle of two gentlemen

00:54:19   that both had plus phones.

00:54:21   I couldn't tell you specifically what vintage,

00:54:23   but they were both plus size phones.

00:54:24   And looking over at one of them,

00:54:27   and this is probably just telling you

00:54:31   how much of a jerk I am, but I was kind of repulsed

00:54:33   by how big the chin and forehead were.

00:54:35   I looked over and I was just like, "Oh, God,

00:54:38   Those look ancient, and they do.

00:54:41   - There's a place for you to stick your gum

00:54:43   when you're not using it.

00:54:44   Just put it right there. - Yeah, exactly.

00:54:45   - And then when you're done, you can.

00:54:47   - So better than under the table, right, Jon?

00:54:48   'Cause at least you know which one's yours.

00:54:51   No, seriously though, they both look so ancient

00:54:54   and just old, like, oh, God, that looks so old.

00:54:59   And in mine, I feel like this unequivocally

00:55:01   looks like the future.

00:55:03   And we'll see what happens with the notch.

00:55:05   But it just looks way newer and way more modern.

00:55:10   So while we're talking about the screen, one of the typical Apple

00:55:15   problem with the new iPhone stories that went around was about the blue shift

00:55:19   in the screen, the inherent quality of OLEDs.

00:55:24   Apparently it is-- I don't have enough experience with OLEDs to load.

00:55:27   That when you look at the screen head on, looks gorgeous.

00:55:29   But if you tilt the screen a little bit away from you or towards you

00:55:32   or whatever that the colors shift towards blue.

00:55:35   And so when I got the phone, I tried this and they're right.

00:55:39   It shifts blue when you do that.

00:55:40   - Oh, it definitely does.

00:55:41   - But without looking, no cheating,

00:55:43   what happens on a pre-10 iPhone

00:55:46   when you tilt the screen off axis?

00:55:48   Don't do it, don't pick up your phone and do it.

00:55:50   Don't look.

00:55:51   Just tell me, this is the pop quiz,

00:55:53   what happens on a pre-iPhone screen

00:55:54   when you tilt it away from you towards you?

00:55:56   - Goes yellow?

00:55:57   - I have no idea because it doesn't matter

00:55:59   because I always look at my phone straight on

00:56:01   or not at all.

00:56:02   I'm gonna have to look at it diagonally.

00:56:04   I won't care if it shifts slightly.

00:56:05   Like, this is such a non-issue.

00:56:07   - I don't think you actually do always look at it on axis.

00:56:11   Like, and, because I think you do look at it tilted.

00:56:14   I just think that changes in color, like this blue shift,

00:56:18   are subtle enough that nobody cares.

00:56:22   And to spoil it for you, what pre-10 iPhones do,

00:56:25   what essentially IPS LCDs do, is they get dimmer.

00:56:29   Instead of getting dimmer in all RGB spectrum equally, the X gets dimmer in the R and the

00:56:36   G, leaving the B a little bit more.

00:56:38   I'm not quite sure why it does this, but that's how it works.

00:56:41   But if you now take them both and put them in front of you and tilt them both, their

00:56:47   off-axis viewing is not great on either one of them, right?

00:56:50   But as Marco said, either you're always looking at a head-on or it's tilted to such a degree

00:56:53   that you don't care.

00:56:54   So if you read a story about the iPhone 10 OLED screen blue shifting, it does, but it

00:57:00   is no more egregious than what every iPhone you've ever done has done.

00:57:04   And I think most people will, even if they've read 100 stories about this and are terrified

00:57:08   about it, you will not notice it in practice.

00:57:10   And the screen looks amazing from any angle in all situations.

00:57:14   Yeah, it's a total non-issue.

00:57:17   The fact that neither of us, neither me or Casey, could tell you what happened if you

00:57:21   looked off access to all the previous screens.

00:57:23   I couldn't have told you either. I had to do it. I'm like, "Well, maybe, you know,

00:57:27   LCDs, especially IPS LCDs, are well known for really good viewing." So I'm like, "Oh,

00:57:30   well, I guess it's just a disadvantage of OLEDs. I'll take it because I like the black

00:57:33   levels, but LCDs don't do that, right?" Then I took my iPhone 7 and tilted it. I'm like,

00:57:37   "Nope. Pretty bad. Pretty bad. Tilt it." And it gets very dim, very fast. Like, "Ooh,

00:57:41   I'd never noticed that before." And why? Because you just don't. You just don't in

00:57:45   normal usage.

00:57:46   Yeah, like after 10 years of using these things, none of us could tell you what happened. So

00:57:50   it's obviously not a big problem in practice.

00:57:53   And now that you look like go look for go take your iPhone 7 and put it on a white screen tilted

00:57:57   It's not subtle like it gets really dark really fast like noticeably like if you put this on camera

00:58:02   It'd be like terrible flaw iPhone screen like that's just how the LCDs work, and we're all just used to it, and it's fine and

00:58:08   the blue thing

00:58:10   Should not bother most people

00:58:12   Speaking of things that should not bother most people

00:58:14   Notched in portrait is a hundred percent a non-issue for me. Maybe you guys feel differently

00:58:21   give you a chance in a second, but for me in portrait, 100% a non-issue. In landscape,

00:58:27   it's weird. I don't think it's as egregious as I expected. Well, in either direction, but particularly

00:58:33   landscape, but it's definitely weird and noticeable in landscape. It doesn't actively offend me,

00:58:41   but it is kind of like, huh, that's funny. So John, in your usage, what have you thought of

00:58:47   of the notch. So the notch itself in portrait, the only way it manifests for me in a negative light

00:58:58   is what it does to the UI in terms of, well this is not really the fault of the notch, but I suppose,

00:59:04   but like the the control center and the notifications. As I said in past shows,

00:59:10   I think it's a really clever use of, you know, making lemons out of, making lemonade out of

00:59:14   of lemons. Really clever use to decide, okay now we have this physical blob there, we have

00:59:17   two distinct regions that are distinguishable and can do different functions, so they put

00:59:21   control center in one and notifications on the other. But due to the very large size

00:59:27   of the phone, I don't want to go all the way to the upper left to get notifications. If

00:59:31   I could go to the top middle or top right for notifications, that would be way more

00:59:36   convenient for me as someone who mostly holds their phone in their right hand. And that's

00:59:42   That's how the notch is annoying me, because it's pushing a semi-commonly used control

00:59:47   farther away from my thumb, right?

00:59:50   So that's, yeah, but other than that, like, the actual notch itself, like, mucking up

00:59:56   my screen, in portrait I don't even notice that it's there and it's a non-issue.

00:59:59   In landscape, I don't tend to use my phone landscape.

01:00:02   Landscape, the main thing that annoys me is the proportion of the phone in terms of, like,

01:00:06   viewing video, which is what I'm going to do.

01:00:08   It seems like a lot of the screen is wasted, depending on what the aspect ratio is.

01:00:13   All in the chat room is saying that the entire thing is a notification set for the right

01:00:17   corner.

01:00:18   Yeah, but I can't use the right corner.

01:00:19   And also, it doesn't occur to me to swipe my fingers over the notch to do it most of

01:00:21   the time, even though you can, if only because I don't want to smear my greasy fingers over

01:00:24   the lenses of the cameras, which probably makes no difference because of focal distances,

01:00:28   but it's still something that I am averse to.

01:00:31   And like I said, it's not like, "Oh, do you always use the upper right-hand corner of

01:00:35   your 7?"

01:00:36   No, but my 7 is not this damn tall.

01:00:37   So it's stressing this out.

01:00:40   In landscape, like I said, I feel like a lot of the screen is often wasted in landscape

01:00:44   and applications that do go full with landscape, I don't need them to say, "Oh, I wish you

01:00:50   could have used that last little bit."

01:00:52   Imagine if you're reading a webpage in landscape or very often I'm rotating some stupid person's

01:00:58   image of text.

01:00:59   They upload a heavily compressed JPEG of text that I can't read in portrait because the

01:01:03   line length is 700 characters long.

01:01:05   to rotate the landscape just so the image can get big enough for me to read their paragraph

01:01:09   of screenshotted text without scrolling the image left and right like a typewriter.

01:01:12   Trenton Larkin Oh, yeah, yeah, yep, yep, yep. I've been here a thousand times.

01:01:14   Geoff - Right. Even then, I don't think the Notch bothers me. It looks awkward in screenshots. And

01:01:20   if you're designing an app, I can imagine you going, "Oh, how am I going to deal with this

01:01:23   thing in landscape?" But so far in practice, the Notch hasn't bothered me, you know, its presence

01:01:32   and the lack of me having those pixels between the two ears

01:01:35   has not bothered me in any orientation,

01:01:37   and just in portrait, it's the reachability thing

01:01:39   that's bothering me a little bit.

01:01:41   - Yeah, I have basically the same opinion.

01:01:43   The notch really has not bothered me much.

01:01:46   It annoys me a little bit sometimes,

01:01:49   but in practice, it's almost like

01:01:51   the iPhone 7 virtual home button thing.

01:01:54   Like, I thought beforehand,

01:01:55   you know, many of us thought beforehand,

01:01:57   like, this is gonna be a big problem,

01:01:59   it's gonna be a huge thing to get used to,

01:02:01   it's gonna be really annoying.

01:02:03   And then in practice it just wasn't.

01:02:05   And that's how the notch is proving to be for me.

01:02:07   Like, as a developer, it's a huge pain in my rear end.

01:02:12   It's mostly in landscape.

01:02:13   But as a user of the phone,

01:02:16   it really is not that noticeable most of the time.

01:02:20   I will say I do notice it when transitions happen

01:02:24   that push content under it

01:02:26   or pull content out from below it.

01:02:28   So leaving an app, opening an app,

01:02:30   Any kind of full screen that gets presented in an app

01:02:33   and then later dismissed, like you kinda,

01:02:35   when your eye is kinda drawn to notice

01:02:38   vertical things like that, that reach the top of the screen,

01:02:41   I do notice it more.

01:02:43   But most of the rest of usage, I don't notice the notch.

01:02:46   It really isn't a problem.

01:02:47   And the only other time I notice it is

01:02:49   when I try to tap it to scroll to top, and doesn't work.

01:02:52   (laughs)

01:02:53   Like, 'cause the notch is not touch sensitive.

01:02:54   So you can tap near the notch and it will scroll to top.

01:02:58   You can tap the ears, it will scroll to top,

01:02:59   but the actual Notch's help is not touch sensitive.

01:03:03   - They should just do what the drawing app does

01:03:05   and make the camera a button.

01:03:06   - Yeah, where they just leave the camera on

01:03:09   and just sense when you put your finger over it,

01:03:11   blacks it out.

01:03:12   Oh, what a hilarious but clever hack that was.

01:03:17   Didn't make it through App Review, turns out.

01:03:19   What a surprise.

01:03:21   But anyway, yeah, so yeah, Notch so far,

01:03:24   it really doesn't seem to be a problem.

01:03:29   You can argue whether they need it to be there,

01:03:32   whether they could have done something more like the S8,

01:03:35   but I think what they did actually works.

01:03:39   It pains me to say that because the notch is so weird,

01:03:42   and in landscape it really is a mess,

01:03:44   but I never use my phone in landscape

01:03:46   unless I'm watching a video,

01:03:47   in which case I can have it do the zoom thing

01:03:49   where it doesn't show over the notch,

01:03:51   which I think any right-thinking person should.

01:03:53   - But you wouldn't want to, you'll never,

01:03:55   like the video thing is not something

01:03:57   that people should worry about

01:03:58   because very little video,

01:03:59   unless you're watching like "Lawrence of Arabia"

01:04:01   or something that's like, you know,

01:04:02   really, really wide aspect ratio.

01:04:04   - Right, right.

01:04:05   - The phone is not the same aspect ratio

01:04:07   as most TV and movies.

01:04:08   It's wider than most TVs and movies.

01:04:09   The only time the notch would interfere with your video

01:04:11   is if you're zooming to cut off the tops

01:04:13   and the bottom of your pictures.

01:04:14   It's a really tall phone,

01:04:15   and when you turn it sideways, it's really wide.

01:04:18   - Yeah, so overall, notch, not really a problem.

01:04:23   It isn't perfect, it's a little weird sometimes,

01:04:25   But overall, it seems fine.

01:04:29   - So unlike the iPhone 7 home button

01:04:32   or whatever it was that I'm moving home button was introduced

01:04:34   I don't think we'll be here next year saying,

01:04:36   and you know what, I actually prefer the notch

01:04:38   to having no notch.

01:04:39   Like it won't actually become our preference.

01:04:41   And as I said, I think when we were talking

01:04:42   about the notch a couple episodes ago,

01:04:44   Apple doesn't want the notch to be there.

01:04:46   It's a compromise that is necessary

01:04:47   for a whole bunch of other stuff

01:04:48   that we're gonna get to in a little bit, right?

01:04:51   If Apple can get rid of the notch, they will.

01:04:53   And no matter how big a part it becomes of branding,

01:04:55   eventually this notch is going away when the tech exists to do it because if Johnny Eyes

01:04:59   is still alive, bless his heart, the true elemental form of the iPhone is to be an unbroken

01:05:05   – well, it's not a round rack, hyper-ellipsoid, whatever the hell shape like he's going

01:05:10   to make this phone.

01:05:11   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:12   Completely uniform.

01:05:13   And by the way, speaking of completely uniform, that's another thing about this phone.

01:05:17   It is more symmetrical, more physically, tactically, tact – what's the word?

01:05:23   Tactilely.

01:05:24   Yeah, tactically and touch sensitively like the surface features of it are more symmetrical than almost any other phone

01:05:32   Certainly, I think it than any other iPhone, right?

01:05:34   Because they all had something that was indented in some way on the bottom to tell you

01:05:40   That's the chin and then the thing without the indents is the forehead or you could feel the little speaker slit for the forehead or whatever

01:05:47   It's not like an Apple TV remote and especially if you have a case it's pretty easy to tell

01:05:53   What's up? And what's down because the case apples cases at least don't have anything on the bottom which will become super important

01:05:59   When we start talking about how you use the stamp phone

01:06:01   But

01:06:04   It have come closer than I've ever come before to briefly attempting to pick up a phone in the wrong orientation

01:06:10   So that is a factor and when Johnny gets his way and it is really truly uniform and there's no notch and like everything is

01:06:17   It's the police featureless

01:06:19   beautiful polished stone

01:06:21   I mean maybe won't matter because maybe like you can pick it up any way you want and the orientation won't matter because at that

01:06:26   Point Johnny's removed the volume buttons as well, and we just all talk to it to change the volume

01:06:29   It's really convenient just tap triple tap 3 or tap over to V and Morse code

01:06:33   And it will change the volume or just say hey, sorry turn the volume up 80%

01:06:36   Anyway, I'm getting all snarky, but but either way that that is a factor with the 10

01:06:41   It is more symmetrical than previous iPhones, and there's the possibility of you occasionally

01:06:45   Getting confused about which way is up, but only briefly

01:06:48   I don't think it's really a problem, but it's in the first few days with the phone, I have

01:06:52   that experience.

01:06:53   I will say one area where they changed the symmetry aspect a little bit, I think for

01:06:58   the better, is that unlike the 6, 7, and 8 and their Plus varieties, the sleep/wake button

01:07:04   is now no longer perfectly overlapping symmetrically with the volume up button.

01:07:09   Now the sleep/wake button has moved down slightly, so it is centered between the volume up and

01:07:13   down buttons.

01:07:14   So now it is substantially easier to hit sleep wake

01:07:19   or volume up without hitting the other one accidentally.

01:07:22   - But then you do have to hit them for,

01:07:25   that's how you get the shutdown thing to come.

01:07:27   - Yeah. (laughs)

01:07:28   - So you will actually still be squeezing the buttons.

01:07:29   - I mean, you can still do it.

01:07:30   - Or doing the command alt delete sequence

01:07:32   or whatever the hell that thing does.

01:07:33   What is that, change to DFU mode where you do volume up,

01:07:36   volume down, volume down, volume left, volume left,

01:07:39   volume right, volume right, select start.

01:07:41   - Mm-hmm.

01:07:42   - Yeah, anyway, yeah.

01:07:43   But the other thing I will say though

01:07:44   about the sleep wake button,

01:07:45   I do love finally that it is no longer

01:07:48   lined up perfectly with volume up.

01:07:49   However, it is fairly difficult to double click it,

01:07:54   which makes it really annoying to use Apple Pay.

01:07:57   - Yeah, you're actually gonna take seven screenshots

01:07:58   from when you try to pay for something.

01:08:00   - Yeah, like I have found Apple Pay

01:08:01   is fairly tricky to invoke with that double click.

01:08:04   - My poor wife would, like I told her how to use Apple Pay.

01:08:08   I didn't tell her the story about the people

01:08:11   being confused about the touch thing,

01:08:12   But it did say, oh, when you do Apple Pay now,

01:08:14   just so you know, you hit the power button twice, right?

01:08:17   But you know what it's like when you're in a checkout line

01:08:19   and there's the pressure for you to perform, right?

01:08:22   And it's your new phone.

01:08:23   It's your new phone and you haven't used it before,

01:08:26   but you don't wanna look silly

01:08:27   and you don't wanna hold people up.

01:08:29   And I think what she was doing was,

01:08:32   you know how it brings up that little thing on the screen

01:08:33   that has a highlight on the screen, says,

01:08:35   "Here, press this button twice to activate Apple Pay,"

01:08:38   or whatever, you know that thing?

01:08:39   I think she was tapping on that on the screen.

01:08:41   And of course it's not doing anything and she's being flustered and I think she eventually

01:08:47   figured it out.

01:08:48   But first experience, I think that guide, that thing trying to tell you what to do,

01:08:54   is a good interface and that will help people.

01:08:56   But under pressure with people behind you with a checkout line, everyone can be a little

01:09:01   silly.

01:09:02   So tiny bit of a learning curve there.

01:09:06   Practice beforehand and I'm sure it will be fine.

01:09:09   - It's also annoying when you're downloading a new app

01:09:11   from the App Store.

01:09:12   App Store purchases have the same thing,

01:09:13   where you have to double tap that thing, the side button.

01:09:16   If you hold your phone in your left hand,

01:09:18   that's surprisingly hard to do

01:09:21   without hitting any other buttons accidentally.

01:09:23   So it's not a good gesture.

01:09:26   I also wonder, why does that need to be there?

01:09:29   Why can't you just tap on the screen?

01:09:31   - Or swipe up from the bottom,

01:09:32   or do literally anything else.

01:09:34   - Yeah, why can't there be an on-screen gesture to do that?

01:09:37   I don't understand why that has to be

01:09:38   the only way to approve payments.

01:09:40   Like maybe if you're like holding your phone down

01:09:42   like on a subway turnstile, you want something

01:09:45   that's not on the screen to activate it, I guess?

01:09:46   - Yeah, yeah, I think you want a hardware thing

01:09:48   as a fallback.

01:09:49   - Yeah, but like why can't I just tap a button on screen

01:09:52   saying, you know, pay?

01:09:53   Like I don't understand why I need to double tap

01:09:56   a hardware button while Face ID has already authenticated me.

01:09:59   That doesn't make sense to me.

01:10:00   - Right, yeah, especially since you have to do Face ID

01:10:02   anyway before that.

01:10:03   - So it knows I'm right here.

01:10:04   Like it just, yeah, that's like the one,

01:10:08   There's one of two changes to iOS that really, I think,

01:10:12   were wrong calls to accommodate for this phone.

01:10:15   That and Control Center's location.

01:10:19   I really hope that iOS 12 changes both of those things

01:10:23   or gives us options to change those things

01:10:26   because most of iOS has adapted somewhat gracefully,

01:10:30   at least, to this phone, but that double tap

01:10:34   to confirm payment and the Control Center

01:10:36   being completely unreachable.

01:10:39   Those are big problems.

01:10:41   - Where would you put Control Center if not there?

01:10:44   Because I agree with you 100% that it is really

01:10:47   an inconvenient location, but I'm at a loss

01:10:51   as to where it should go.

01:10:52   - You could swap it for reachability,

01:10:54   swipe down on the home indicator,

01:10:55   which doesn't make sense physically, but you can try it.

01:10:58   - Yeah, I turned on reachability,

01:11:00   I figured I might need to use it 'cause the phone's so tall,

01:11:02   and I really have a hard time activating that, honestly.

01:11:05   it is not an easy gesture to do,

01:11:08   because the area that you have to swipe down in

01:11:11   doesn't have a lot of height,

01:11:13   and it's already at the very bottom of the phone,

01:11:14   so if you reach all the way to the bottom,

01:11:15   which ironically for a feature named Reachability

01:11:17   is actually not that easy,

01:11:19   and then swipe down, which is also not that easy

01:11:21   from already being at the bottom,

01:11:23   so that's not an easy gesture to do.

01:11:25   There's lots of options

01:11:27   where they could put Control Center.

01:11:28   I think some of them could be certain,

01:11:31   maybe if you swipe up when you're already

01:11:33   on the home screen, you know, something like that,

01:11:36   or it could be like the top half of notification center,

01:11:40   somehow, like there's other, you could like swipe,

01:11:42   and it could be on the widget screen,

01:11:44   like there are so many places that they could put it.

01:11:48   You know, I hope they figure something out that's better,

01:11:50   because where they put it now is,

01:11:53   they've basically taken the controls

01:11:56   that you are more likely than average

01:11:58   to have to use while holding the phone

01:12:00   one-handed on the move,

01:12:02   and they have put them in the location

01:12:03   that has the least possible to reach in that situation.

01:12:07   So I think where they put it now is so bad

01:12:11   that pretty much any other option would be better.

01:12:13   - Yeah, I think Control Center itself could use some help,

01:12:16   and other people have mentioned this,

01:12:17   like the lock screen now suddenly becomes much more usable

01:12:20   when it's not, you know, when face ID is in the mix,

01:12:24   like the fact that we can wake the phone up

01:12:26   by touching the screen now means that suddenly,

01:12:28   if I could configurable things from Control Center

01:12:31   on the screen instead of just flashlight,

01:12:32   What is the other one?

01:12:33   It's flashlight and camera, which you don't even need a camera there because you can swipe

01:12:38   from the side.

01:12:39   There are a few other options.

01:12:40   There's like Apple TV Vermotes and stuff, but they made it slightly configurable on

01:12:45   iOS 11, which was nice.

01:12:46   It was welcome, but yeah, they could do a lot more.

01:12:49   There's a lot of room on the screen, and Control Center itself from whenever they changed

01:12:52   this new Control Center.

01:12:53   I guess it was iOS 11.

01:12:54   Yeah, you can configure it by saying which things you want in it, but you can't rearrange

01:12:57   it.

01:12:58   And the ones you configure get to go down in the other area as they slowly built.

01:13:02   There's a lot of room for improvement and customization there.

01:13:05   And some of that might actually help with the reachability control center.

01:13:08   Not the activation, but once you activate it, if things can be nearer the upper right,

01:13:13   because that's where your thumb's gonna be, because that's where it just was to activate

01:13:16   it, like it just changes the calculus on how easy it is to reach things.

01:13:19   And while we're on this topic of Marco talking about the reachability gesture being tricky,

01:13:25   before we get to Face ID, the other important aspect of this phone, the lack of a home button,

01:13:32   manifests in all of us learning about the lovely swipe up from the bottom of your iPhone

01:13:37   10 gesture, which is the replacement for hitting the home button, and also depending on how

01:13:41   fast you do it to get you into multitasking and stuff like that.

01:13:43   But really, one of the most common operations we all do on iPhones and have been doing for

01:13:47   a long time is essentially hitting the home button to go home.

01:13:53   Face ID and touch ID, which we'll talk about in a bit, is a separate thing.

01:13:58   And when you talk about touching the home button, sometimes it gets confused with Face

01:14:03   ID.

01:14:04   It's like, "Well, you have to try Face ID multiple times.

01:14:05   Sometimes your finger is wet, and sometimes you just don't have it at the right angle."

01:14:08   All that is true.

01:14:10   But there's one thing I never have to try to do twice, and that's pressing the home

01:14:14   button for a non-Touch ID purpose.

01:14:17   Yes, I do have to futz with Touch ID.

01:14:20   I do it all the time.

01:14:21   Touch ID is really fast.

01:14:22   It works great most of the time, but every once in a while I have to futz with it.

01:14:25   Never, when I'm using my phone, I'm in an app,

01:14:28   and I still go back to the home screen.

01:14:29   I tend not to double tap for, you know, multitasking,

01:14:32   but even if I did that, single tap or double tap,

01:14:35   it works every time.

01:14:36   I never miss the tap.

01:14:37   I can feel where the button is, and when I press,

01:14:39   it works, physical button, fake home button

01:14:42   that doesn't move, either way it works.

01:14:44   With iPhone X, that gesture to go home,

01:14:47   I don't know how frequently,

01:14:50   but a non-zero amount of the time,

01:14:53   I have to make a second or even a third attempt at the swipe up from bottom gesture.

01:14:56   And remember, there's no case there interfering with me.

01:14:59   The Apple cases do not extend across the bottom.

01:15:01   And I watch my wife use the phone, and she too, every once in a while, has to try that

01:15:06   swipe again.

01:15:07   It's not particularly time consuming, but for a very common operation, this is one of

01:15:12   the aspects of using the phone that feels like a slight downgrade.

01:15:16   The reliability of what used to be a very, very reliable thing, pressing the home button.

01:15:22   now has entered the realm of sort of like Touch ID wear.

01:15:26   You might have to try it again.

01:15:27   And I'm not sure why I'm missing.

01:15:30   Am I missing because I'm not shimmying my hand lower and the phone is larger?

01:15:33   I'm not getting good swipe on it.

01:15:35   Am I missing because I'm just not good at edge swipes because I've had a case and it's

01:15:40   a different thing when the edge has no case and I'm missing the target area?

01:15:43   Am I starting too high?

01:15:44   Am I starting too low?

01:15:46   I don't know what it is, but I'm having to swipe multiple times.

01:15:49   you guys had this experience where you got to make a second attempt at the home gesture?

01:15:54   I feel like I have, but it very quickly got a lot better over time.

01:15:58   Yeah, I have not had any unreliability for that. I mean, it took me maybe a half a day

01:16:03   to get used to it.

01:16:05   You should watch yourself or have someone else watch you to see if you're just instinctively

01:16:08   doing it. Like, swipe up once. Because it's not time consuming. You're already there.

01:16:13   The second swipe is pretty quick, and I don't think I ever have to do it more than two or

01:16:16   three times, but I thought maybe it's just me, so I watched my wife without telling her

01:16:19   that I'm watching her do this, and I've seen her do it as well too.

01:16:22   - Oh my god, to live in your house, Jon.

01:16:24   - It's her phone, so she's mostly using it.

01:16:26   It could be a learning curve thing, I'm willing to acknowledge that, I'm just saying like

01:16:29   first week impressions, first few day impressions, that is happening to me a little bit.

01:16:34   - I mean, while we're on the subject of the home swipe, I think another kind of questionable

01:16:38   area for me is the multitasking gesture.

01:16:42   I know everyone has their little tricks for like, oh, you used to do a little circle,

01:16:45   or you press and hold or whatever else.

01:16:48   But no matter how you do it,

01:16:50   bringing up multitasking takes a little bit more time now.

01:16:53   It's a little bit more error prone.

01:16:55   And if you want to force quit an app,

01:16:58   now granted, I know this is a controversial topic,

01:17:01   and you shouldn't need to force quit apps,

01:17:03   but sometimes you need to force quit apps.

01:17:04   And that is now significantly slower than it was before,

01:17:08   'cause now you have to, unless I'm missing something.

01:17:11   - Press and hold.

01:17:12   - Yeah, you have to bring up the multitasking switcher,

01:17:15   yourself as slow, then you have to press and hold

01:17:17   on the app to enable the little wiggle mode

01:17:18   like they have on the home screen,

01:17:19   although they don't wiggle anymore,

01:17:20   and then hit the minus button to force quit it.

01:17:23   And that is significantly more gestures and more time

01:17:27   than double tap the home button, swipe up,

01:17:30   which is the previous way to terminate that.

01:17:32   - I like that because it's punishing habitual force quitters.

01:17:35   - It is, but it is also, the problem with the

01:17:40   force quit controversy, the reason why

01:17:44   we can't just say like, oh, you should never need

01:17:46   to force quit apps, is because sometimes

01:17:48   you do need to force quit apps.

01:17:49   It's hard to look at something like this

01:17:51   where it makes the force quit a lot harder to do

01:17:53   and a lot more hidden of a thing you can do.

01:17:56   It's hard to look at that and say,

01:17:57   well, that's a definite clear win

01:17:59   because you shouldn't need to do this.

01:18:01   'Cause yeah, you shouldn't need to do it,

01:18:03   but you do need to do it.

01:18:04   You know, so like, and maybe not for battery life

01:18:07   for reasons necessarily, although sometimes

01:18:09   that is the reason, some apps you do need to do that

01:18:12   for battery life, but it's a kind of thing

01:18:16   where it would be nice if you never had to do this,

01:18:19   and then you could make it impossible to quit an app,

01:18:21   because why even have a way if you never have to do it?

01:18:24   But we do still have to do it,

01:18:26   and so to make it harder is annoying.

01:18:29   - It's not that much harder.

01:18:30   The press and hold, I'm the hater of press and hold

01:18:32   as much as anybody.

01:18:33   I hit any action where I have to do something

01:18:35   for a set amount of time and there's no way to speed it up,

01:18:37   but for this action, I mean, I don't do it often enough

01:18:41   that I would be annoyed by the press and hold,

01:18:43   because once you press and hold, you're in the mode

01:18:45   and you can kill multiple apps by going kill, kill, kill,

01:18:47   kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill,

01:18:48   so people can still do that.

01:18:49   There's just a slight delay when you do press and hold

01:18:51   to get into the mode.

01:18:53   I'm more with you on multitasking,

01:18:55   which I find very difficult to get into,

01:18:56   mostly because you have to like either pull up slowly,

01:19:00   like there's a whole bunch of moves.

01:19:01   You can still, the thing that they added that I think

01:19:03   is nice is if you want to switch back and forth on apps,

01:19:05   you can swipe side to side with no delay.

01:19:07   Like you don't have to do any weird motion,

01:19:09   But if you wanna bring up the switcher,

01:19:11   especially, especially, this kills me,

01:19:13   if you wanna bring up the multitasking switcher

01:19:15   from the home screen,

01:19:16   I would wonder if you just surveyed people,

01:19:17   new iPhone 10 users, ask them, this is hard,

01:19:20   find new iPhone 10 users who know about

01:19:22   the multitasking switcher,

01:19:23   but don't know whether or not you can bring it

01:19:27   from the home screen and ask them,

01:19:28   "Hey, can you bring up the multitasking switcher

01:19:29   from the home screen?

01:19:31   I bet people think you can't do it."

01:19:32   Because that gesture for some weird reason

01:19:34   is so much harder for me to do

01:19:36   than it is from within an application.

01:19:38   Do you guys find that?

01:19:39   - No.

01:19:40   - You don't have a problem, go do it now.

01:19:41   Take out your phone right now.

01:19:42   - I've been doing it during this entire conversation

01:19:44   and I have about a maybe two-thirds success rate.

01:19:47   (laughing)

01:19:48   Don't do it.

01:19:49   - Wait, you're talking about the come up and stop

01:19:51   or the inverted L?

01:19:52   - From the home, from Springboard.

01:19:54   Go to Springboard and bring up the multitasking switcher.

01:19:57   - Mm-hmm, yeah.

01:19:58   - I find that very difficult to do.

01:19:59   Bring up the multitasking switcher from apps is just slow,

01:20:02   but I don't fail at it.

01:20:03   From the home screen, I fail at it.

01:20:05   - It's the same exact gesture.

01:20:06   - I know, it shouldn't be, what's different?

01:20:09   I don't know what's different.

01:20:10   All I know is that I am not,

01:20:11   is it because they hide the home indicator

01:20:13   and I somehow need that line on the bottom of the screen?

01:20:15   I don't know what the problem is.

01:20:16   - Oh, interesting, okay.

01:20:17   I can understand that.

01:20:18   - Maybe I'm miss aiming.

01:20:19   Swiping up from the bottom is not my forte, let me tell you.

01:20:25   And again, this could just be a learning curve,

01:20:27   but initially, like the first 10 seconds I'm using the phone

01:20:30   I thought, oh, you can't bring up

01:20:31   the multi-sensing swisher from home?

01:20:32   That's what I thought.

01:20:33   And then eventually I figured out how to do it.

01:20:35   But despite that, after figuring out how to do it,

01:20:39   I would go to the home screen and be like,

01:20:40   all right, we're gonna do it this time.

01:20:42   Ah, nothing, I'm swiping up uselessly.

01:20:44   Try again, do I have to go faster, slower,

01:20:46   am I starting in the wrong spot?

01:20:47   And then eventually it comes up.

01:20:49   But I'll point out this is another area.

01:20:51   Double tapping the home button

01:20:53   works every time the first time.

01:20:54   I can find the button, I double tap it,

01:20:56   it always brings up the multi-tasking switcher.

01:20:58   - Not if you have a triple tap shortcut

01:20:59   for an accessibility feature enabled.

01:21:01   - Oh, I don't have that.

01:21:03   - Then it fails a lot. - You have these features

01:21:04   - For app development, I'm sure that you have to test

01:21:06   all this stuff, but I don't have that stuff.

01:21:08   - My life changed when I could just have Siri

01:21:11   turn on a voiceover.

01:21:12   (laughing)

01:21:13   Then I could finally turn off the triple click,

01:21:15   'cause there were so many times when I would try

01:21:17   to open up the app switcher, accidentally triple click,

01:21:20   instead of double clicking, because the button

01:21:21   was a little bit mushy or something.

01:21:23   And then somewhere out in the world where I'm in public,

01:21:25   my phone says, "Voiceover on!"

01:21:27   "Yeah, turn it off, turn it off!"

01:21:30   - I will say that I spoke to Aaron very briefly

01:21:33   before I recorded and asked her what she thought of her phone. And one of the things that she

01:21:39   really did not like was the change in multitasking, because she felt like it was considerably

01:21:46   more fiddly. And there are, like Marco was saying, there are occasions when she will

01:21:52   want or need to force quit an app, and it was really annoying to her that the new mechanism

01:21:57   is so slow.

01:21:59   What are these occasions, and why are you both encouraging people to do this?

01:22:01   - You know what, it's gonna be really bad.

01:22:03   It's gonna be next fall when we're trying to order

01:22:06   a replacement to this phone using the Apple Store app

01:22:08   on the phone and trying to force-quit it over and over again

01:22:10   to get it at three in the morning.

01:22:11   - Oh God, you're right. - It's gonna be a disaster.

01:22:13   - Think about that.

01:22:15   - We're all gonna fail.

01:22:16   - So Casey, when are you encouraging Aaron to,

01:22:19   why is she force-quitting apps?

01:22:21   Why, what is she doing this for?

01:22:23   - I don't know why you're so deeply offended by this.

01:22:26   She is not a habitual force-quitter,

01:22:28   but there are times when apps do things that are not right.

01:22:31   - I'm like, "What, when, which apps?

01:22:32   "Does she use Facebook?"

01:22:33   I'm trying to figure it out.

01:22:34   - Well, yes, she does use Facebook,

01:22:35   but I don't have to frickin' justify her actions to you.

01:22:38   You're not the boss of her.

01:22:39   - I know, I know, but I'm just saying,

01:22:42   shouldn't you be saying,

01:22:44   if force quitting is such an important part

01:22:46   of your iPhone workflow, what's going on there?

01:22:50   Are you using an application that always misbehaves

01:22:52   that you have to use anyway?

01:22:53   Because I don't think it should be a regular part of people.

01:22:57   It should only be when an app is broken or misbehaving.

01:23:00   And if an app is broken or misbehaving--

01:23:02   You know what? A lot of apps are broken and misbehave all the time. Like Facebook.

01:23:06   But if they're broken or misbehaving frequently, you stop using that app.

01:23:09   Like, broken means you come back to the app and the screen is all black or whatever.

01:23:13   Tell people to stop using Facebook. Good luck with that.

01:23:16   Well, I know. That's why I'm asking. That's why I'm asking.

01:23:19   If it's Facebook, you can say, "Oh, it's because she uses Facebook."

01:23:21   And I'd say, "Okay, well, that's why it's important."

01:23:23   But I figured you'd know what it is.

01:23:25   I don't pay attention to how often I force quit apps.

01:23:28   I feel like maybe once a day I'll force quit an app.

01:23:31   And I would say the only reason I do it

01:23:33   is because I feel like that app is misbehaving.

01:23:36   Now which app--

01:23:36   - That's where you start getting into the voodoo.

01:23:38   You feel like, "I feel like this app is bad."

01:23:42   (laughing)

01:23:43   - No, the problem, no, Jon, you're misconstruing--

01:23:45   - And I wanna make it stop being bad.

01:23:47   And then you force quit it, and you're like,

01:23:49   "I've stopped it from being bad.

01:23:50   "Now I feel better."

01:23:51   - You're misconstruing me not being able

01:23:53   to cite a specific example

01:23:55   with me just doing it because magic.

01:23:57   It's not that I'm doing it because magic.

01:23:59   It's not magic, but you don't have enough instrumentation in iOS to really, really know

01:24:04   whether what you're doing is helping or not.

01:24:07   It makes you feel better, but are you doing like scientific tests to, you know, A/B tests,

01:24:12   force quitting, not force quitting?

01:24:13   No, you're not.

01:24:14   You're just saying, "I get the feeling that this thing is doing a thing that I don't want,

01:24:17   and I want to stop it."

01:24:18   No, no, no, that's...

01:24:19   But, okay, so let me give you an example that does not happen often, but I know you're not

01:24:23   going to let this go until the king is satisfied.

01:24:25   So as an example, on occasion, Tweetbot will be in, I know, okay, Twitter, blah, blah,

01:24:30   blah.

01:24:31   Tweetbot will be confused as to whether or not it can be in streaming mode.

01:24:36   And when I'm on Wi-Fi, I prefer to use Tweetbot in streaming mode.

01:24:39   That's a buggy app.

01:24:40   Yeah, all right.

01:24:41   Oh my god.

01:24:42   But it's an example.

01:24:44   You're not letting this go until I cite a specific example.

01:24:47   That is a specific example.

01:24:48   Yeah, all right, all right.

01:24:50   I mean, what I'm saying is that you have a higher tolerance for using buggy applications

01:24:53   then you deal with that by saying, "Well, I know sometimes it gets confused when I change

01:24:57   from cellular to Wi-Fi about whether it can use screening, but my fix is I just force

01:25:01   quit it."

01:25:02   And that becomes part of your workflow, essentially.

01:25:03   You know that's a thing that happens with the app, but you still want to use the app,

01:25:06   so you force quit it.

01:25:07   And I guess I just don't have apps that I use that do that.

01:25:11   Maybe.

01:25:12   And again, you're overblowing the amount of times that I do this.

01:25:15   Once a day, you said.

01:25:17   Average.

01:25:18   Maybe.

01:25:19   Yeah, maybe once a day across all the different apps that I use during the day.

01:25:22   I'm trying to think back to the last time I force quit anything on my phone. I guess

01:25:26   it was probably the night we ordered the thing, because you know, you had it to make the Apple

01:25:29   store app refresh its stuff. But I think that's the last time I did it. And had I not ordered

01:25:33   an iPhone at 3 a.m., I would have, like, what's the time before that that I had forced quit?

01:25:38   I would be hard-pressed to say.

01:25:39   And Marco, can you defend me on this one? Or you leave me out to dry?

01:25:43   He's force quitting his own apps because he's writing them and they have bugs.

01:25:45   No, I don't need apps that force quit my own app. If you hit stop and Xcode, it force quits

01:25:49   it.

01:25:50   Yeah, exactly.

01:25:51   - No, I will usually force quit maybe one app

01:25:56   every one to two days for some reason.

01:25:58   And they're usually, I think, decent reasons.

01:26:01   And I don't think that's an unhealthy frequency

01:26:03   or an unusual one.

01:26:05   - I would not have guessed those numbers.

01:26:07   'Cause like I said, maybe you use more apps than I do

01:26:10   or try more new apps or more of the apps you use every day.

01:26:13   'Cause if you use an app every day

01:26:14   that has an annoying thing like that,

01:26:15   like for example, the last time I force quit an app

01:26:18   on my wife's phone was when you're setting up

01:26:20   her iPhone 10 and for whatever reason,

01:26:23   Twitteriffic, here you go Casey,

01:26:24   Twitteriffic was having some problem where it was,

01:26:27   we could switch to one of her Twitter accounts,

01:26:29   but not to another one, don't even ask.

01:26:32   And like, it would just go on the screen,

01:26:35   it would be like, I would say like contacting Twitter

01:26:37   servers or something like that.

01:26:38   And I deleted the cache in Twitteriffic,

01:26:40   which is a nice diagnostic tool that Twitteriffic gives you.

01:26:42   And that did not help in this case.

01:26:44   And so I had to force quit it,

01:26:46   because it was just kind of like stuck on that screen.

01:26:48   And I think that was like,

01:26:50   You should use less buggy apps.

01:26:52   Yeah, well, that's like you ported your stuff

01:26:54   into a new phone, and we're trying--

01:26:56   it was restored from iCloud to backup.

01:26:58   And sometimes there are some problems getting back up

01:27:00   and running on that.

01:27:02   But that's it.

01:27:02   And then after that, it's fine.

01:27:04   So that's the last time I did it for a buggy app reason,

01:27:06   but that wasn't on my phone.

01:27:08   And that was like a first setup where

01:27:09   you're trying to make sure you're

01:27:10   signed into all the accounts and re-adding everything

01:27:12   to Apple Wallet.

01:27:12   And it's in the middle of god knows whatever photo analyzing

01:27:15   stuff that it's doing.

01:27:16   The initial setup is always kind of weird.

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01:28:48   - Well, in any case, so one of the things that Erin said

01:28:54   was that she's frustrated with the multitasking.

01:28:58   She didn't give a crap about the notch either,

01:29:00   in a good way, she doesn't really notice it.

01:29:03   She was very, and this is gonna, I guess,

01:29:05   segue us into face ID, she was very grumbly

01:29:11   about the angle of attack necessary for Face ID to work.

01:29:16   So by that I mean, I think a lot of times

01:29:19   she'll be like sitting on a couch or something like that

01:29:21   and maybe reclined or just in a position where the phone,

01:29:25   she wants to unlock her phone,

01:29:28   but the phone isn't necessarily looking at her.

01:29:31   And she was really annoyed that she has to have

01:29:35   some amount of consideration of what the phone needs

01:29:39   order to unlock her phone and she found that really frustrating and you know what I

01:29:43   Think she's right now. It doesn't bother me as much

01:29:46   I don't think because I think more often than not the phone is staring where I'm staring longingly into my phone's

01:29:52   infrared eyeballs as I'm trying to unlock it, but

01:29:55   but but I

01:29:58   Guess for whatever reason I mean because mom because Erin because any number of reasons she she felt like she was

01:30:05   frequently getting tripped up by

01:30:08   Face ID not unlocking because the phone wasn't angled

01:30:13   Exactly, right and where it seemed to bother her quite a bit

01:30:17   It bothers me only a teeny bit and the other thing she said was and not specifically around Face ID

01:30:24   But mostly around Face ID like this did bleed into other places like multitasking as an example

01:30:29   But she just said that every she said everything just seems slower, you know

01:30:35   So as an example, double tapping a home button is much quicker than the swipe up and stop.

01:30:41   The most recent touch ID is instant, and face ID is not instant.

01:30:48   And I was talking to somebody just earlier tonight actually, and I was saying to them,

01:30:51   you know, if I take off my developer hat, I am actually lightly annoyed about how slow

01:30:59   face ID is, because it is noticeably slow.

01:31:03   Is it egregiously slow?

01:31:05   No, it is not, but it is noticeably slower

01:31:08   than the most recent Touch ID.

01:31:10   Now, when I put my developer hat back on,

01:31:12   it is a friggin' miracle that this thing shipped

01:31:14   in this quantity in the year 2017.

01:31:16   Like, how is this even possible?

01:31:18   How is it this quick?

01:31:20   How is it possible to do all that computation that quick?

01:31:22   But when I take my developer hat off,

01:31:24   how is it this slow?

01:31:26   Why would they have shipped it?

01:31:27   It's too slow.

01:31:28   Does that make any sense at all?

01:31:30   - Yeah, I think so.

01:31:30   I mean, you know, to me, I mean, first of all,

01:31:33   so to get back to what Aaron was saying,

01:31:34   like the angles of it, I definitely hit that being like,

01:31:38   this is now a thing I have to adjust with like--

01:31:41   - And consider.

01:31:43   - Yeah, adjust and consider.

01:31:45   A couple of people in the chat were suggesting

01:31:46   that maybe try turning off the attention detection

01:31:49   to make you like a lot happier.

01:31:51   I think I'm gonna try that,

01:31:52   because I honestly don't need incredibly high security.

01:31:56   Like, I don't think, there has never been a situation

01:31:59   where somebody has forcibly unlocked my phone

01:32:00   showing it to my face or putting my thumb on it

01:32:03   or anything like that, so I don't think I really need

01:32:06   that level of security.

01:32:07   So I'm gonna try that, but it definitely is like,

01:32:11   it takes some habit changing.

01:32:14   And with Touch ID, maybe it did,

01:32:16   that was so long ago now, I don't really remember,

01:32:18   did I have to suddenly press my finger in a different way?

01:32:22   The answer is probably, I probably had to adjust to that too.

01:32:26   And part of what makes, you were saying some of this

01:32:29   is just, you know, it's slower, multitasking like that,

01:32:32   it's slower, some things are slower.

01:32:34   Touch ID's speed does, I mean, sorry,

01:32:36   face ID's speed does seem to be

01:32:39   certainly between Touch ID first and second generation,

01:32:43   but a lot closer to the first generation than the second.

01:32:46   - I would agree with that.

01:32:47   - It's almost as slow as first generation Touch ID,

01:32:49   which was still totally usable.

01:32:52   Like, it just, we are spoiled by how fast

01:32:54   second generation Touch ID was.

01:32:56   - Bingo.

01:32:57   Completely agree with you.

01:32:58   It is a step back in that regard.

01:33:00   Overall speed to unlock the phone,

01:33:03   in terms of taking it out of your pocket,

01:33:06   unlocking it and going to the home screen,

01:33:09   I don't think it's that different.

01:33:10   I think it might be a little slower,

01:33:12   but I don't think it's a big difference.

01:33:14   Just because that swipe is so fast and integrated

01:33:18   in one continuous motion with Face ID being recognized,

01:33:21   I think that's mostly fine.

01:33:23   For accuracy, I think it's pretty good.

01:33:27   It seems, again, similar to Touch ID

01:33:30   between first and second generations,

01:33:34   and maybe closer to first.

01:33:35   But I have found that, you know,

01:33:38   I've had this phone now for a little less than a week,

01:33:41   and I have mostly adjusted myself

01:33:45   to optimize face ID recognition,

01:33:47   you know, both accuracy and speed.

01:33:48   Like, it did take some adjustment.

01:33:50   I do have to then, you know, have it face me

01:33:52   at a certain angle and everything,

01:33:53   get within a certain angle.

01:33:55   you know, like every other iOS developer

01:33:57   who has phones tethered to a lightning cable

01:34:00   sitting on their desk most of the day,

01:34:01   running apps on it, it is really annoying

01:34:04   that it doesn't work while lying face up on a desk,

01:34:07   'cause the angle's just too steep to see

01:34:08   when you're sitting at the desk,

01:34:09   and it's like in the middle.

01:34:11   - You are right, but I will say,

01:34:13   in the defense of this thing I was just lamenting,

01:34:15   that I have been pleasantly surprised

01:34:18   by how aggressive the angle can be

01:34:20   when it is sitting on a desk.

01:34:21   You are right that it does not work,

01:34:23   you know, near as reliably as Touch ID, but I was surprised that at a reasonably extreme

01:34:30   angle it would still unlock itself when it's on the desk. So I'm not like directly over

01:34:35   the phone. I'm, you know, offset by like 30, 40, 50 degrees, and it still was able to work,

01:34:41   which doesn't mean, nothing of what I said makes you wrong. All I'm saying is that even

01:34:46   though it doesn't work as much as I'd like, it worked better than I would have expected.

01:34:50   So, I haven't been unlocking this phone with Face ID, obviously, because you can only put

01:34:54   one face in it and the face is my wife's phone.

01:34:57   But what I have been doing is A) watching her use her phone and B) paying more attention

01:35:02   - I was doing this even before I had a phone - paying more attention to the way that I

01:35:06   have changed how I use iOS devices in response to Touch ID.

01:35:11   Because we've all made changes to work with Touch ID, even if those changes are the sort

01:35:17   of instinctive thing I do when unlocking my phone that if it doesn't immediately unlock,

01:35:22   lift my finger and try again, right?

01:35:24   Or grabbing my phone in a way that my finger is on what would previously be a pointless

01:35:28   place to put my finger.

01:35:29   Like before there was a Touch ID sensor, why would I be picking up my phone and having

01:35:33   any fingers on the home button, right?

01:35:35   Unless that's how I'm going to wake the phone up or something, right?

01:35:38   So the, but I have made adjustments in my life to accommodate Touch ID to make it so,

01:35:44   you know, to give me the final experience so that when I take it out of my pocket, I

01:35:47   start using it as soon as possible.

01:35:49   And a lot of those are like you're gripping the phone in a weird way and then you touch

01:35:52   this thing and then you immediately bring your thumb up to touch other stuff because

01:35:55   you expect the thing to be unlocked.

01:35:57   The thing about Face ID, before we get into all the techno mumbo jumbo stuff, is you have

01:36:03   to adjust yourself in the same way, but with Touch ID what you are adjusting is where and

01:36:10   when your fingers touch different parts of the phone.

01:36:13   With Face ID, you are potentially adjusting your entire body posture to accommodate Face

01:36:21   ID.

01:36:22   Like, so when it's on your desk.

01:36:23   Yeah, it can work at pretty steep angles, but for people who are accustomed to leaving

01:36:28   their phone face up on a flat surface and waking and unlocking it with Touch ID and

01:36:33   glancing on something and putting it back to sleep, that's not going to work if the

01:36:38   phone is off to your right, like it's by your right hand or whatever and you can just glance

01:36:41   at it.

01:36:42   to kind of not leer over your phone, but you kind of got to get in the zone of the phone

01:36:49   sensing and you can't put your finger in the zone or your hand in the zone.

01:36:54   You've got to put your head in the zone.

01:36:56   Your head is connected to your neck, which is connected to your body, which means your

01:36:59   entire body has to kind of lean over to be like, "Hi phone."

01:37:03   Even if attention is off, it needs to see the shape of your face from some angle and

01:37:06   is impressively wide, but you do need to get, not get in the phone's face, but you kind

01:37:12   you gotta hover over the phone a little bit.

01:37:13   You gotta be like, here I am, here I am phone.

01:37:16   And what I'm finding from watching my wife

01:37:18   work with the phone and from listening to other people's

01:37:20   stories is that a surprising number of people

01:37:22   use their phones in a way that does not involve

01:37:26   their face being over the screen of their phone.

01:37:28   Casually on the arm of a sofa, unlocking it,

01:37:31   even just waking it from sleep and glancing at it,

01:37:33   which you can still do, but you don't need to unlock it

01:37:34   to do that, like looking at your notifications or whatever.

01:37:37   Or really far down where you pull it out of your pocket,

01:37:40   but your hands are still down by like your thighs

01:37:42   and you just turn the phone up and look at it or whatever

01:37:44   and it can't get your face from that angle

01:37:45   or it's being blocked by your leg.

01:37:47   These are habits that will have to change

01:37:48   for people to use Face ID

01:37:51   because it's got to see your face, right?

01:37:54   And maybe the second gen will be better

01:37:56   about seeing your face in more distances and more angles,

01:37:58   but that is a change in habits, which we expected,

01:38:01   but it's a change in habits that involves more of your body

01:38:04   than the change in habits for Touch ID.

01:38:06   And I don't want to minimize the changes for Touch ID

01:38:07   because as I've been noticing them,

01:38:09   There's a lot of them.

01:38:10   And I find my characterization of how fast it is,

01:38:13   again, just watching my wife do it

01:38:15   'cause I can't be doing it myself.

01:38:16   Well, I did use the demos in the store,

01:38:18   which you can have a little thing that just,

01:38:20   you run into your face,

01:38:21   then you just unlock this pointless screen

01:38:23   that just says, "We recognized you."

01:38:26   I'm pretty surprised at how fast it is.

01:38:30   Like a little bit is what Casey said,

01:38:32   being a computer nerd,

01:38:33   like you know what it must take to do this

01:38:36   and it is awe-inspiring that they are able to coordinate

01:38:41   hardware and software and do this thing.

01:38:44   It's really fast.

01:38:46   When I see my wife use her phone,

01:38:49   it really does look like what all the phoning stories say,

01:38:52   which is like, it's like that phone has no lock on it,

01:38:54   because when I see her phone, her user phone,

01:38:57   and when everything works the way it's supposed to,

01:38:59   I never see her unlock her phone.

01:39:01   I see her pick up her phone, swipe, and start using it.

01:39:04   That's what I see her do.

01:39:05   I never see, I don't even notice

01:39:07   the little lock animation thing.

01:39:08   It just seems like she picks up her phone in August,

01:39:10   you don't have a lock on that phone, right?

01:39:12   That's how it's supposed to work.

01:39:14   But in all those other scenarios

01:39:15   where your face can't be over your phone,

01:39:17   it's not like it works too slow or recognition fails.

01:39:20   It's like, sorry, can't,

01:39:23   I don't see a face anywhere around here.

01:39:25   So, and then your fallback unfortunately is not touch ID,

01:39:28   which I said that unfortunately,

01:39:29   but I've been thinking about this too.

01:39:30   A phone with both touch ID and face ID would be bad

01:39:33   for reasons that we don't really have time

01:39:34   to get into right now.

01:39:35   But when it's in all the positions

01:39:38   that we've trained ourselves to be able to unlock

01:39:40   and use with Touch ID,

01:39:41   you've either got to loom over your phone a little bit more

01:39:44   or change your habits,

01:39:45   bring your phone a little bit more closer

01:39:46   or don't leave it flat on the table or whatever.

01:39:50   And I think this trade-off will be worth it,

01:39:52   but for now it seems, I don't know.

01:39:56   I don't know, I should have had my wife come on the show

01:40:00   and see what she really thinks,

01:40:01   but she's only used it for a short period of time.

01:40:03   but her only really strict complaints,

01:40:05   and these are things that could be fixed in software,

01:40:07   is it doesn't work when she's laying down in bed,

01:40:09   'cause I think it just doesn't work sideways.

01:40:10   Has that been your experience?

01:40:12   - Yeah, yeah, it doesn't work in landscape,

01:40:17   but when I am laying down

01:40:20   and the phone is, figuratively speaking, laying down,

01:40:23   it doesn't work, and that drives me bananas,

01:40:25   'cause I use my phone like that a lot.

01:40:27   - Yeah, and she's doing it laying on her side, to be clear,

01:40:29   so that she's laying on her side on the bed

01:40:31   pulls the phone off her nightstand and there's no reason it can't work like that.

01:40:35   It should work fine.

01:40:36   Like distances are all fine, good view of the face, blah blah blah blah.

01:40:38   Unless your face is squished into the pillow maybe, I guess, and doesn't have a good angle

01:40:42   on the side of it, it feels like it should work like that.

01:40:44   So that's one annoyance.

01:40:46   And she did have some complaints about using it in the dark but I think that's mostly about

01:40:52   angle and distance because the phone doesn't care about the dark because Face ID is done

01:40:56   entirely in IR and IR doesn't care about the dark.

01:41:00   That's my, is that right?

01:41:02   Am I getting that right?

01:41:03   - Yeah. - Yeah, and--

01:41:03   - But that's all I are.

01:41:05   - I would also like to build on that and say,

01:41:07   so when I'm in bed, I don't have my contact lenses in

01:41:11   because I wear hard contacts

01:41:13   because my eyes are really weird.

01:41:14   And what I'll notice is, in order to see well,

01:41:19   I'll have the phone extremely close to my face,

01:41:22   like uncomfortably for any normal person close to my face.

01:41:26   - Yeah, it's too close to your face anymore.

01:41:27   - And it's way too close for face ID,

01:41:29   And that's kind of annoying too.

01:41:30   Like not annoying enough that it didn't occur to me

01:41:34   until you said something about it.

01:41:36   But that's also a little frustrating.

01:41:38   But I feel like I'm pooping all over Face ID.

01:41:41   It is amazing, like truly, even as a consumer,

01:41:44   it is amazing what's happening.

01:41:46   And then once you layer on top of that,

01:41:48   like Jon and I were both saying,

01:41:50   how much computational, how many computational things,

01:41:54   just how much effort must this take to work?

01:41:57   How can it possibly be working this quickly?

01:42:00   - And battery power.

01:42:01   Like, you know it's like spraying your face with this IR

01:42:04   and the IR flood illuminator and the dot thing,

01:42:06   and then you're using the IR camera to pick up the dots

01:42:10   and then you're processing them.

01:42:11   It's like being paralyzed

01:42:13   by that first voice-activated phone trigger.

01:42:15   Like, what, but how can this even work?

01:42:18   And like I said, when it works,

01:42:21   when I watch my wife use her phone and it works,

01:42:23   it's like her phone does not have a lock on it.

01:42:25   And from her experience,

01:42:26   Maybe I'm consciously making sure that it's got a view of my face.

01:42:30   I'm hoping that will become, like Marco said, more or less second nature, and we will have

01:42:33   all adjusted our body posture to always make sure the camera can see us.

01:42:37   And it's pretty forgiving.

01:42:38   Like, if you get the impression of, like, "Oh, I have to be in just the right position,"

01:42:40   you don't.

01:42:41   Like, you just have to be remotely in the ballpark, and it gets the job done.

01:42:45   That's what's so amazing about it.

01:42:46   Do you feel like it couldn't possibly be even reading my face, because I wasn't even paying

01:42:51   attention to, like, exactly what view it gets of my face.

01:42:54   Like, I'm just kind of using my phone normally.

01:42:56   Like if you're in the ballpark of holding your phone

01:42:59   and looking at it in any way, this is with attention on.

01:43:02   I haven't tried to turn attention off.

01:43:04   It is pretty magical.

01:43:05   And in fact, I think the,

01:43:08   I have, she's told me Face ID has failed

01:43:11   for her several times.

01:43:12   Mostly what I've seen happen is I've seen her

01:43:15   miss the home swipe many more times

01:43:17   than I've seen her fail Face ID.

01:43:18   I don't know if that means is one is more likely

01:43:20   than the other, or maybe you just go home more often,

01:43:23   like you unlock it once, but you go home seven times

01:43:25   during that session or whatever.

01:43:27   But I will continue to survey her.

01:43:29   This is bad because this is all secondhand to count because again I have never trained

01:43:33   this thing on my face and she'll probably never let me do that so I'll just have to

01:43:36   live vicariously.

01:43:37   But you two will be the real guinea pigs to see two weeks from now have you completely

01:43:41   adjusted your entire body posture around Face ID.

01:43:46   Or here's the real thing.

01:43:47   What happens when Face ID doesn't work?

01:43:49   You're laying down in bed or Casey's got his phone really close to his face.

01:43:52   I do that too, because my vision is bad.

01:43:54   Not as bad as Casey's, but still pretty bad.

01:43:57   The fallback is like, okay, I couldn't get Face ID to work,

01:44:00   and it's not just because it was at the wrong angle.

01:44:02   I'm not going to sit up on my bed to get Face ID to look.

01:44:04   The fallback is you have to type in your passcode, right?

01:44:07   So the real test is, pre-Face ID,

01:44:10   I typed in my passcode this number of times per day.

01:44:13   Post-Face ID, two weeks later, a month later,

01:44:15   how many times per day do I type in my passcode?

01:44:17   I'm going to say that pre-, you know,

01:44:20   like I'm still preface ID, with my Touch ID iPhone 7,

01:44:25   the only time I type in my passcode

01:44:26   is when it insists that I do so

01:44:28   because like it's either been 48 hours since I unlocked it

01:44:31   or it's like an OS update or something.

01:44:33   I don't think there's any time, even with wet hands,

01:44:35   with wet hands, I will do the thing

01:44:37   where you remove your thumb, put it down,

01:44:38   remove your thumb, put it down, try it out.

01:44:40   I will do a surprising number of attempts

01:44:42   of like wiping my finger or whatever.

01:44:44   That will do anything to avoid typing

01:44:45   in very long passcode, right?

01:44:48   And so I basically never type in my passcode.

01:44:51   But when Face ID fails, if it fails for a reason

01:44:54   that you know, like, is not, there's no help,

01:44:57   like you don't want to sit up in bed,

01:44:58   the next thing you do is probably resign yourself

01:45:01   to type in your passcode,

01:45:02   which means no more giant alphanumeric passcodes

01:45:04   'cause you'll drive yourself insane.

01:45:06   Because who wants to, like,

01:45:07   when you're laying down sideways in bed

01:45:08   and you're all groggy, you do not want to type out

01:45:10   a 17-digit alphanumeric punctuation capital

01:45:13   and lowercase passcode that's super secure

01:45:15   so you feel all awesome.

01:45:16   Nobody wants to do that.

01:45:18   So you'll either downgrade to a shorter numeric passcode,

01:45:23   or you'll really start to hate Face ID,

01:45:25   because there is no other option.

01:45:27   It's not like, well, Face ID failed,

01:45:28   I guess you can use Touch ID.

01:45:30   You can't.

01:45:30   It's Face ID or it's typing.

01:45:33   - Oh, I actually have a tangential question about this.

01:45:36   So what is the best protocol for when somebody

01:45:41   has grabbed my phone and looked at it,

01:45:46   which is not unreasonable.

01:45:47   Maybe I asked them to look at it or something like that,

01:45:50   but Face ID has recognized them,

01:45:54   and the phone is still on,

01:45:57   and then they hand the phone to me,

01:46:00   and then I enter my password.

01:46:02   Is it that the other person's face is different enough

01:46:06   that it's not gonna train on their face?

01:46:09   Do you know what I mean?

01:46:10   Because my understanding is--

01:46:11   - Yeah, I had an item in the notes about that,

01:46:13   because there was that video or whatever

01:46:16   where two siblings who, they're not twins,

01:46:18   but two siblings who look very alike said,

01:46:20   "Hey, look at this, my brother," or whoever it was,

01:46:22   "Can unlock my phone with his face,

01:46:24   "but we're not the same person," right?

01:46:26   And what was happening in that scenario is

01:46:31   it's one brother's phone and he's got it trained

01:46:34   on his face and it works fine.

01:46:36   And the other brother tries to unlock it

01:46:39   and it doesn't work 'cause he's got a different face,

01:46:41   but then he types in his brother's passcode,

01:46:43   which he knows and enters the phone.

01:46:45   And that happens a few times, and so the theory goes, what he's doing is essentially training,

01:46:50   like Casey was saying, he is training the phone like, "Oh silly phone, you said you

01:46:55   couldn't recognize this face, but because I immediately enter the passcode, what I'm

01:46:59   telling you phone is no, no, it's me, it's me, the owner of the phone.

01:47:03   So the face that you just tried to recognize that you said was not the right face, it obviously

01:47:06   was the right face because I just unlocked the phone."

01:47:09   I'm assuming, just like Casey said, that this training only happens if the face is close

01:47:15   to the face that it knows but not quite. So that if an entirely different person

01:47:20   whose face is nothing like yours tries to use face ID, fails, but then enters

01:47:24   your code, which I've done with my iPhone many times because it always fails

01:47:27   because my face has never succeeded in unlocking her phone, but I have unlocked

01:47:31   her phone many many times over the course of setting it up and playing with

01:47:33   it and, you know, practicing my home gestures and all the other things that I

01:47:37   do with her phone, right? I'm pretty sure that I am not messing up her training

01:47:41   because my face is too different from her face and that the phone is not going

01:47:45   to accept the fact that I unlocked after face ID failed as additional training data.

01:47:51   I don't know that for a fact, but that seems like the logical thing to do, and Apple is

01:47:55   a smart company.

01:47:56   So I think both things are smart things to do.

01:47:57   Both to ignore my face because it's different, and also it's smart to train on that brother's

01:48:03   face.

01:48:04   So if you have a sibling who looks a lot like you, do not let them repeatedly pick up your

01:48:07   phone and fail face ID and enter the code because it may eventually learn that this

01:48:12   alternate face that's kind of like yours is also yours and it just looks different from

01:48:16   time to time so don't do that. So L. Bruise from the chat has pulled this quote which

01:48:21   I think is from the face ID security guide which we'll put in the show notes. If face

01:48:25   ID fails to recognize you but the match quality is higher than a certain threshold and you

01:48:30   immediately follow the failure by entering your passcode face ID makes and takes another

01:48:33   capture so oh interesting so that's only once the passcode has been entered so at this point

01:48:38   it would be of me anyway.

01:48:40   - Yeah, yeah, you have to successfully enter the passcode.

01:48:42   Like if someone knows your passcode,

01:48:44   like the sibling knew the passcode, yeah.

01:48:45   And so this is saying it has to pass a threshold.

01:48:48   So that's why I am not training my iPhone to recognize me.

01:48:50   - Right, but I'm on a different point.

01:48:52   I had assumed that it took the,

01:48:55   so our order of operations is picture of,

01:48:59   it takes a picture of Erin because she's the one

01:49:01   that's trying to open the phone, says, "You're not Casey.

01:49:05   The phone is handed to me and I enter the code."

01:49:08   What I'm reading here is that it actually takes

01:49:10   a second picture.

01:49:12   I had assumed it was still working off

01:49:14   that original picture of Aaron,

01:49:16   but this says if face ID fails to recognize you,

01:49:18   but the match quality is higher than a certain threshold,

01:49:19   you immediately follow the failure

01:49:20   by entering your passcode.

01:49:21   Face ID takes another capture

01:49:23   and augments its enrolled face ID data

01:49:25   with a newly calculated mathematical representation.

01:49:28   - Yeah, because it's facing your face for the new capture,

01:49:31   but if she knew your code and she entered your code,

01:49:34   it's still not gonna pass the threshold.

01:49:35   It's not gonna pass the threshold.

01:49:36   So the match, you know, it's higher than a certain,

01:49:39   hers is not within the threshold of learning of your face,

01:49:42   I'm assuming, because it's just too different.

01:49:43   - Yeah, I hear you.

01:49:45   One of the other things that's been really great

01:49:47   about Face ID is it has been surprisingly willing,

01:49:52   almost uncomfortably willing,

01:49:55   to unlock when my face is occluded or otherwise messed with.

01:50:00   And by that I mean, I often have a finger like on my chin

01:50:05   or maybe I have a finger in my mouth

01:50:07   'cause I'm biting my nails

01:50:08   or doing something I shouldn't be doing.

01:50:10   Or I went to a football game the day after we got the phones

01:50:14   and I had like a hat on and I didn't have a hat on.

01:50:16   I had a hat and a hood and then just a hood.

01:50:18   And so now granted a lot of this is over your face,

01:50:21   but as in above my face, but my point is--

01:50:24   - And you got your weekend beard too, right?

01:50:26   - This is a multi,

01:50:27   this might be a multi-month beard at this point,

01:50:29   but it's gonna go soon.

01:50:31   Whenever we're really close to Spriggs,

01:50:34   time of arrival, I'm gonna shave it all off,

01:50:36   'cause Sprig is gonna beat me as I should be met,

01:50:38   which is without hair on my face.

01:50:40   Anyway-- - Sprig's eyes

01:50:41   aren't gonna work for a while, you know that, right?

01:50:42   - Well, there's that too, there's that too.

01:50:44   (laughing)

01:50:45   But this is how it needs to be.

01:50:46   - You've played this game before,

01:50:47   you know how this goes. - I know, I know.

01:50:49   But anyway, the point is, it did a really, really good job,

01:50:54   and continues to do a very good job,

01:50:56   of being willing to unlock when portions of my face

01:51:01   are occluded. And so like maybe I'm resting my hand on my chin and my fingers are kind of rolled

01:51:07   up and in front of my mouth, you know, or something like that. It's done a very, very good job,

01:51:11   surprisingly good job of rolling with that to the point that it almost feels like, and I bet this

01:51:16   isn't true, but it almost feels like the maybe eyes or cheekbones are the things that matter most to

01:51:25   face ID because it's rare that I'll have my hand in front of my eyes or like up on my cheekbones or anything like that

01:51:32   But it is not unusual for me to have my fan my hands in or around my mouth

01:51:36   And so I don't know if that's true

01:51:39   But it just feels like eyes and cheekbones matter a lot more than mouth the the mouth area if you will

01:51:47   So on the topic of Erin saying that things just seems slower what I thought she might have been getting at before you went off

01:51:53   to describe the home multitasking thing, which I totally agree with, is the animations.

01:52:00   And I realize I probably only say that because I run reduced motion and have for a really

01:52:05   long time.

01:52:06   So my iPhone 7 doesn't do almost any animations.

01:52:09   Everything is these silly crossfades, right?

01:52:13   But here's the thing about the iPhone X.

01:52:15   Well first of all, using it in its default out of the box thing, the animations do not

01:52:21   bother me as much as they did on the 7 and I guess the 6 or whatever.

01:52:27   And why don't they bother me?

01:52:28   They're even more egregious, even more like swoopy woopy, like things are flying in from

01:52:32   here and going out to there.

01:52:34   I think they bother me less because the gesture I'm performing, for example to go back to

01:52:40   the home screen, swiping up from the bottom, matches with the idea of chucking the current

01:52:46   app back into its little hidey home inside the icon, you know what I mean?

01:52:50   how it flies into the icon. And so I'm doing something that matches the gesture versus

01:52:56   I press the button and everything went shrinky zoomy, right? They feel disconnected. Again,

01:53:03   it's not my phone. I've just played with it a lot, but it doesn't bother me as much. But

01:53:07   I'm like, "Okay, well, even though it doesn't bother me, if I got an iPhone X, I'm sure

01:53:11   I would turn on reduce motion. So let me go into settings and turn on reduce motion."

01:53:14   I doubt either one of you have tried this, but if you put reduce motion on this phone,

01:53:19   Very strange things happen and there's not really a good solution to make them not strange.

01:53:24   You turn on reduce motion, what happens is this.

01:53:27   You're in an app, you do the home gesture to get back to home and it starts to make,

01:53:34   as you swipe up, it starts to make the app that you're in kind of fly upwards and start

01:53:39   heading back into its little icon home, right?

01:53:43   But then, abruptly, once that animation has started, it switches to a crossfade.

01:53:51   And I thought, "Oh, that's stupid.

01:53:52   Why don't they just do the crossfade the whole time?"

01:53:55   But because of the way the multitasking gesture, like, you know, you can do it slow or whatever,

01:54:00   I think it has to start the animation.

01:54:02   Because if it didn't start the animation, like, if it was going back to home screen,

01:54:08   it could say, "Oh, I'll just wait until you cross the threshold of, 'Oh, I see you're

01:54:12   into the home screen and it'll crossfade with doing no animation before him.

01:54:14   But if you're going for the multitasking switcher, once it says, "Oh, they're not going to the

01:54:17   home screen.

01:54:18   This is slow enough for me to bring up the multitasking switcher."

01:54:20   Then it's going to be like, "Oh, crap.

01:54:22   I haven't been doing any animations this whole time."

01:54:25   And they're activating the multitasking switcher, quick catch up and make it look like they're

01:54:28   animated up to the point where their thumb is.

01:54:29   And that would be weird too.

01:54:31   So if you go turn it on iPhone 10, turn on reduce motion now and do the home gesture,

01:54:35   and just look at what it does.

01:54:36   It is a mess.

01:54:38   It is an animation mess.

01:54:39   It's half one animation interrupted by a crossfade.

01:54:43   And honestly, I think if I had an iPhone X, I would not turn on reduced motion because

01:54:47   that, it doesn't feel faster.

01:54:50   I get half an animation that feels worse than the full animation, and I don't have a good

01:54:58   solution.

01:54:59   It's not like Apple did something dumb here.

01:55:00   I don't know what they can do to fix this problem.

01:55:04   I think we just all have to use the animations and like it, which I realize YouTube do anyway,

01:55:08   but I haven't been, so I don't know.

01:55:11   I have an animation dilemma with the iPhone X.

01:55:13   - I think maybe in the same way that before iOS 7,

01:55:18   we realized that we had kind of gone too far

01:55:20   with skeuomorphism, I think we might be at that point

01:55:23   with animations, where the amount of unnecessary

01:55:27   and almost overly exuberant animations that we have

01:55:36   for common actions in iOS 11,

01:55:37   I think is a little excessive.

01:55:39   Like one of the weird things is like when you go

01:55:40   to the home screen, how your wallpaper kinda like

01:55:43   slams up from beneath, I guess.

01:55:46   It looks very weird and jarring and--

01:55:49   - I've never seen that one because--

01:55:50   - Yeah, me neither. - I have 100% black

01:55:52   background and I just realized why I wouldn't have seen it.

01:55:55   - I actually recently switched to 100% black background

01:55:57   in part for that and in part because it just looks

01:55:59   so awesome on the OLED screen.

01:56:01   But yeah, like it's--

01:56:02   - I've always had a black background.

01:56:04   - But weren't you not able to have a background

01:56:06   in early days of iPhone OS?

01:56:08   - Yeah, it wasn't until I think iOS 4

01:56:10   that you could have a background at all.

01:56:12   - And before that it was 100% black, right?

01:56:14   - Yep, yep.

01:56:15   - So I think that's why I never changed.

01:56:17   Once you could get a background,

01:56:18   I think I tried some backgrounds,

01:56:19   couldn't find anything I liked,

01:56:20   and I'm like, well, everything's been 100% black before,

01:56:22   so let me try that, and that's it.

01:56:24   And now I've been using 100% black.

01:56:26   And the great thing is, in iOS 11,

01:56:28   you don't have to upload a black image

01:56:30   like I've had to do for every version

01:56:32   - Yeah, they haven't built in, finally.

01:56:34   - They have a solid color section

01:56:35   and black is available to you.

01:56:36   And yeah, it does look great in OLED.

01:56:38   But no, I didn't notice the slamming,

01:56:40   and so it comes up from below, kind of.

01:56:42   - Yeah, it's almost as though

01:56:43   you're falling onto your wallpaper.

01:56:45   It's a very jarring animation,

01:56:48   and I really don't like it.

01:56:49   And Tiff comes out on it too.

01:56:51   It's a very weird thing.

01:56:53   Anyway, so I hope that we have reached the point

01:56:58   with animations now where we can start to pull back.

01:57:00   It's almost part of what I was saying last week

01:57:02   about how I wish Apple would have

01:57:05   maybe a more confident design,

01:57:07   confident in the way that they don't need to show off,

01:57:11   that they know they're good,

01:57:13   and they don't need to show off

01:57:15   how good they are to the world.

01:57:16   They can just be good, right?

01:57:18   I feel like a lot of these animations now

01:57:19   have gotten to the point where they are just showing off.

01:57:22   This is a designer showing off, and it's getting annoying.

01:57:26   - How do you do the multitasking gesture

01:57:28   without any animations?

01:57:28   That's what I'm stuck on.

01:57:30   If you do not change the way you get

01:57:33   into the multitasking switcher,

01:57:35   how do you do that with no animations?

01:57:38   Because you can do the home screen with no animations,

01:57:42   quick swipe up from the bottom

01:57:43   and we cross right to the home screen,

01:57:44   or we just bring the home screen up, right?

01:57:46   But a slow swipe up from the bottom

01:57:48   bring you into multitasking, I don't know,

01:57:51   maybe that would feel kind of disconnected.

01:57:53   I get what you're saying about the animations going too far,

01:57:55   and again, as someone who runs with reduced motion

01:57:57   all the time, I am not a fan of animation,

01:57:59   but I was surprised by how much I like the animations

01:58:03   in the 10 because they were connected to things

01:58:05   my fingers were doing and like Twitterrific

01:58:07   and lots of other applications where they actually make

01:58:10   the animation track your finger.

01:58:11   I don't know if the iOS 11 ones are doing that

01:58:14   on the iPhone 10, but they feel like they're tracking

01:58:17   your finger and that feels good that it doesn't feel like

01:58:19   you're a triggering animation.

01:58:21   It feels like you are moving things on the screen,

01:58:23   which is a big kind of like side swipe going from screens

01:58:25   and like home screens on springboard, right?

01:58:28   The reason that feels so good is you don't feel like you are triggering the slide in

01:58:32   animation, you feel like you're moving the screen, you feel like you're moving the icons

01:58:36   with your finger, and it's such a big difference.

01:58:39   And so I'm actually a pretty big fan of the animations.

01:58:42   Maybe I wouldn't be if I didn't have a black background and I'd seen that slam in, and

01:58:46   I think I would still prefer reduced motion if implemented like it is on the 7 and earlier

01:58:51   phones where it's just, you know, like you really are triggering animations and they're

01:58:54   all cross fades.

01:58:56   But I think there's something to be said for a UI that is so fundamentally based on swipy

01:59:03   crap.

01:59:04   Having that swipy crap make you feel like you're moving things on the screen rather

01:59:10   than triggering an animation.

01:59:11   I still prefer no animations at all, but honestly, with this many swipes, I don't know how you

01:59:16   pull it off and don't make it feel disconnected from, you know, like that you are just drawing

01:59:22   magic spells and hieroglyphics on the screen and your magic incantations cause things to

01:59:26   change but there's no real connection between them like it's magic.

01:59:29   Yeah, and I don't think it has to be that, I don't think it has to be dramatically like

01:59:33   no animations ever again. Like, I just think the animations need to be toned down. You

01:59:37   know, we've gone too far, they need to be brought back a little bit, you know, and not

01:59:43   totally removed. Like, so many of these things like multitasking and everything, yeah, they

01:59:46   should be animated. Like, and most of the things that are animated now should still

01:59:51   be animated. It's just a question of what that animation is and how many other things

01:59:55   are happening when it happens and how long does it take. These things could all use some

01:59:59   tweaking I think, you know, and some restraint.

02:00:02   Yeah, the home screen is probably the best example because what you want to happen is

02:00:06   I want to go to the home screen, but you don't need to see the home screen assemble itself

02:00:10   like, you know, like a deconstructed sandwich at a froufie restaurant assembling itself,

02:00:14   right? Like, here comes the background and now the icons are falling onto it. Like, it's

02:00:19   Like, I know what Springboard looks like.

02:00:21   Just show me that as if it's already constructed.

02:00:23   Not as if every time I go back to the home screen

02:00:25   it is rebuilt from its component pieces.

02:00:27   Like a weird CG transformer animation.

02:00:30   So that's probably too far.

02:00:32   - Yeah.

02:00:33   All right, so let's get back on track

02:00:34   and finish up our iPhone X review.

02:00:36   (laughing)

02:00:36   It's very smooth running along.

02:00:38   Casey, do you have any other,

02:00:41   I have kind of like a miscellaneous section here.

02:00:43   Do you have anything else to add?

02:00:47   I will just say that I haven't had a lot of time using my phone regularly because I was

02:00:54   traveling and when I'm traveling I always have a lot more battery range anxiety than

02:00:59   I normally do because it's oftentimes less convenient for me to charge and oftentimes

02:01:04   I'm out and away from my normal day-to-day life when I'm traveling obviously and I'm

02:01:09   using my phone more.

02:01:10   So for a lot of reasons I get real battery anxiety when I'm traveling.

02:01:15   And maybe what I'm about to say is just that anxiety manifesting itself, but I feel like

02:01:22   on both our 7s and on the 10s, battery life in iOS 11 is still not great.

02:01:29   It's gotten better with 11.1, but it's still just not great.

02:01:33   That's frustrating.

02:01:34   But as a quick summary of my thoughts, I really do like this phone quite a bit, and that screen

02:01:41   is just so clearly the future.

02:01:43   It is really, really great.

02:01:45   and I overall, I obviously have complaints.

02:01:47   Nothing is so perfect, did you know guys,

02:01:49   that it can't be complained about,

02:01:50   but it is a really great phone.

02:01:52   So with that in mind, Marco,

02:01:53   tell me your miscellaneous section.

02:01:55   - So first of all on the battery,

02:01:57   my theory with iOS 11, I think one of the big reasons

02:02:02   why people are seeing such reduced battery life

02:02:05   on such a wide scale is that iOS 11 allows photos

02:02:09   to be uploaded to iCloud when you're not plugged in

02:02:12   and when you're not on Wi-Fi.

02:02:14   and by default, I'm pretty sure it'll last cellular data

02:02:17   usage and also not plugged in usage,

02:02:19   whereas before, it would wait until the phone was charging

02:02:23   and on WiFi to do any kind of uploads.

02:02:25   So if you're shooting pictures,

02:02:26   which most people do all the time,

02:02:29   now your battery life should be probably

02:02:31   significantly worse.

02:02:32   Also, encoding, HEIF and HGVC are more processor intensive.

02:02:37   So it seems like the combination of the iCloud photo uploads

02:02:40   not being restricted by default anymore

02:02:43   to a high power state and wifi,

02:02:45   and also the complexity of the new formats,

02:02:48   I think that explains a lot of the worst battery life

02:02:52   people are seeing in reality with iOS 11.

02:02:54   Anyway, so that's my theory.

02:02:57   Check the settings though for photo uploads

02:02:58   if you wanna conserve some more power.

02:03:00   As for the battery life on the X,

02:03:03   it's a little soon to tell for sure,

02:03:06   but it seems like it is overall fairly similar

02:03:12   to the battery life on my iPhone 7.

02:03:14   It doesn't seem like it's dramatically better.

02:03:18   I kind of expected going to OLED

02:03:20   to bring more gain in that department.

02:03:22   Maybe we'll see over time as apps in the OS

02:03:25   maybe get darker with their themes overall

02:03:27   'cause one of the things with OLED

02:03:28   is when it's showing dark content,

02:03:30   it's using less power than when it's showing light content,

02:03:31   unlike LCDs.

02:03:33   So maybe it'll get better over time,

02:03:35   but I did kind of expect OLED to bring a bigger jump

02:03:39   in battery life than what we actually got here.

02:03:42   So, oh well, anyway, battery life seems fine,

02:03:45   but not amazing.

02:03:47   - Are you sure it's still not analyzing your photos?

02:03:49   - I don't know that.

02:03:50   It probably not, but who knows.

02:03:52   The setup experience, I did wanna do a quick note on this.

02:03:58   My phone immediately needed an update to iOS 11.1,

02:04:01   which I thought was fairly ungraceful.

02:04:04   That's the kind of thing that like,

02:04:05   you know, anytime you get like a game console

02:04:07   or pretty much any tech product from anybody else.

02:04:11   It doesn't usually immediately need a software update.

02:04:13   It kind of ruins the experience a little bit

02:04:15   and just delays you getting things even more.

02:04:18   So that kind of sucked.

02:04:20   You don't usually see it from Apple, so it was noteworthy.

02:04:23   On the other hand though, the automatic migration

02:04:26   from my old iPhone was amazing.

02:04:29   It worked perfectly in all respects,

02:04:31   except it didn't move my watch.

02:04:33   Now, some people say the Apple Watch

02:04:35   would move for them in that process.

02:04:37   For some people it wasn't.

02:04:38   It seems like it's inconsistent whether it works or not.

02:04:41   It is seemingly supposed to do it.

02:04:43   It just doesn't seemingly a good portion of the time.

02:04:45   But with that one exception of the watch being moved,

02:04:49   this is the first time I have not done iTunes backup method

02:04:53   to transfer to a new phone.

02:04:55   Every other time I've gotten a new phone,

02:04:57   I've backed up the old one to iTunes

02:04:58   with a local encrypted backup using that checkbox

02:05:00   so it saves my passwords,

02:05:02   restore to the new phone, et cetera.

02:05:04   This is the first time I didn't do that.

02:05:06   And the new, with the combination of iCloud backups

02:05:11   and with this new setup wizard thing

02:05:12   where you put the phones near each other

02:05:14   and they detect each other and move it over,

02:05:16   that was actually, I think it was faster

02:05:19   than an iTunes backup and restore would have been.

02:05:22   And it was way less effort

02:05:24   and it actually was a better copy of everything.

02:05:29   Sometimes with iTunes, it gets weird with like,

02:05:31   maybe it'll back up like a bunch of old apps

02:05:34   that you thought you deleted

02:05:35   and then put them back on your new phone

02:05:36   and stuff like that.

02:05:37   There's occasional weirdness with iTunes backups,

02:05:40   not to mention the fact that it takes up

02:05:41   a giant amount of hard drive space,

02:05:43   which is a problem in the age of SSDs.

02:05:46   I think I'm gonna stop doing those.

02:05:48   Like, I think I'm finally gonna, after all this time,

02:05:50   finally gonna join the rest of the world

02:05:52   and stop doing iTunes backups,

02:05:53   because the restore process on the phone

02:05:56   without that was flawless.

02:05:59   You know, people have reported lots of problems in the past

02:06:01   with like iCloud restores taking way too long

02:06:04   iPhone day one, I haven't heard that this year.

02:06:06   And I think whatever problems used to plague this

02:06:09   don't seem to apply anymore.

02:06:11   So good job whoever did this at Apple.

02:06:14   This is great, like the new setup process,

02:06:16   the migration process is awesome.

02:06:19   And finally we'll replace iTunes backups for me.

02:06:22   - It is way faster than it used to be

02:06:25   and I have a lot of experience with both of them

02:06:26   because I always do iTunes for mine

02:06:27   but then iCloud for my families, right?

02:06:30   And so it was way faster than it has been in the past

02:06:32   for the iCloud one.

02:06:33   It did like the iTunes backup does sometimes.

02:06:36   My iCloud one was confused about what apps it was restoring

02:06:39   and ended up restoring a bunch of apps

02:06:40   that my wife had uninstalled,

02:06:42   mostly because we share an Apple ID for purchases.

02:06:45   Even though she's got her own,

02:06:45   we have this legacy of when we only had one Apple ID,

02:06:48   as many families probably do.

02:06:50   And so it did the exact same thing as iTunes

02:06:52   about being confused about what she,

02:06:53   exactly she had installed.

02:06:55   For the most part it worked, but the watch part,

02:06:58   it did ask about the watch,

02:06:59   but at the time we were doing it in the Apple store,

02:07:02   It was asking about my watch,

02:07:03   because remember this is my phone, right?

02:07:05   So my process is all messed up, like whatever, fine.

02:07:08   I'm fine that we're doing a weird thing.

02:07:10   Here's my complaint about the process.

02:07:12   If you don't catch it in that moment,

02:07:14   I don't know how to transfer the watch

02:07:17   without resetting and restoring it.

02:07:19   And I feel like there should be an easy way

02:07:21   after the initial setup process to say,

02:07:24   oh and by the way, at the time I did the setup,

02:07:26   I didn't have my watch, but now I've got it,

02:07:29   or now everything, like whatever, I wanna do the thing now.

02:07:32   you've got two phones, I've got an old phone and a new phone, take the watch and move it from this

02:07:36   phone to that phone. If there's a way to do that, I don't know it. And so I had to do it the long way

02:07:40   and the long way is crappy. So that's my only real complaint about it. But I'm mostly with Marco that

02:07:46   iCloud, if you've been avoiding iCloud things and always doing iTunes backups, I'm not going to stop

02:07:49   doing iTunes backups because they currently go to my Synology and what the hell, like I do them only

02:07:53   like once a month anyway. But iCloud backups and Restore have gotten way better. They're way faster,

02:07:58   the way more complete, there's less waiting around for apps to load themselves for like

02:08:02   three days. Like, it was good. I endorse it. The watchlist stays to be better.

02:08:07   >> Well, so, I did the same transfer thing that Marco did. It was the same story, right? Always

02:08:13   do iTunes backups encrypted. This time I did not. And the two things I noticed that bummed me out

02:08:19   are, and maybe it was user error, maybe I did something wrong, but the two things that bummed

02:08:23   me out were it did not keep my Wi-Fi passwords those did not transfer again

02:08:28   maybe I did something wrong someone did but hmm and then the other thing I

02:08:33   noticed was because I do not use iCloud photo library I only use one of the

02:08:37   thing where it's like the initial yeah yeah yeah thank you it seemed like it

02:08:43   just didn't get most of the pictures off of my old phone which is fine because I

02:08:49   I can just put them in our main repository.

02:08:52   But where an iTunes backup seems to have always

02:08:57   included the pictures, which is I think part of the reason

02:09:00   why it takes forever to finish,

02:09:04   it did not seem to work with this transfer

02:09:09   migration assistant kind of thing.

02:09:12   Oh, and apparently it's iCloud Keychain

02:09:15   according to the chat room that does Wi-Fi passwords.

02:09:18   - I have passwords. - You use that now.

02:09:19   - Yes, yeah, I do not.

02:09:20   - That was yet another thing that, like,

02:09:21   when it first came out was a complete mess,

02:09:23   and you shouldn't have used it when it first came out.

02:09:25   But then they've been improving it over time,

02:09:27   and now the combination of iCloud backups

02:09:30   plus iCloud Keychain means that you basically

02:09:33   have the benefit that you had before

02:09:35   with iTunes encrypted backups.

02:09:37   Now you have it with iCloud backups in the cloud

02:09:39   if you use both of these things.

02:09:41   And in my experience, they've been flawless.

02:09:43   It's been great.

02:09:45   - I know some people have a complaint

02:09:46   iCloud keychain and maybe it has been inconsistent but I've been using it since day one and I've

02:09:50   always thought it has more or less fulfilled the purpose it's supposed to fulfill.

02:09:54   Like I've never regretted using iCloud keychain.

02:09:58   Worst case maybe I'll feel like oh that should have been an iCloud keychain but it wasn't

02:10:02   there but that's not like if the 9,000 other passwords are there then I'm good with it

02:10:08   and occasionally like it's like 17 level security to get iCloud backup onto things was occasionally

02:10:14   annoying and I think it used to be more annoying than it is now, but I heartily endorse iCloud

02:10:19   Keychain.

02:10:20   I didn't even realize that's the magic that was bringing me the nice backup and restore

02:10:24   just because I've always been using it, but now that I know that's the case, I even more

02:10:28   endorse, like, you should definitely use this because who wants to do a restore and then

02:10:33   have to like re-sign into all your crap and lose all your saved website passwords and

02:10:37   all that other stuff.

02:10:38   As far as I can tell, with all the annoying hurdles that it makes me jump over, iCloud

02:10:42   keychain seems reasonably secure.

02:10:44   The only thing that I did not like about the migration process, which I think was not actually

02:10:49   part of the migration process, is that all of my settings and everything were carried

02:10:54   over except one, the screen auto lock duration. On the iPhone X, my screen auto lock, which

02:11:02   I believe I had set to five minutes, which I think is the longest you can go without

02:11:05   without it being never, screen auto lock was reset

02:11:08   to the minimum of 30 seconds.

02:11:11   This seems intentional, because this has never happened

02:11:15   with any other migration that I've done.

02:11:16   And let me tell you, using an iPhone

02:11:20   with a 30 second auto lock sucks.

02:11:23   And it's really, really annoying.

02:11:25   - You don't think that's part of the new attention thing,

02:11:28   like feature, not bug, with like, oh, we want everyone

02:11:30   to experience our cool new attention thing,

02:11:32   is basically the screen will dim very aggressively to save your battery unless it notices that

02:11:39   you're looking at it.

02:11:41   That's the experience they're going for, like, "Oh, we'll save your battery life, but also

02:11:44   we'll be less annoying in terms of, like, if you're using your phone we won't dim it

02:11:47   because we can tell you're looking at us because we have the face and attention, you know,

02:11:51   APIs and all that other stuff."

02:11:52   So that's what they're going for and that's probably why they would, if this is not a

02:11:56   bug, assuming it's not a bug, why they would do this on purpose is they want you to experience

02:12:00   all this attention stuff.

02:12:01   But this is another example of where people will have to adjust their body postures because

02:12:04   now people are complaining.

02:12:05   I put my phone flat on the table and I like to glance at it, but then I look away for

02:12:10   three seconds and I look back and it's already dimmed the screen.

02:12:13   I'm like, "Wait a second.

02:12:14   I was just using you."

02:12:15   Normally my iPhone, because of my strict timeout, would say, "I'm going to leave my phone on

02:12:19   at full brightness for X amount of time so you can look away, go do something else, go

02:12:23   eat a piece of food, then look back and your screen will still be on."

02:12:25   But the iPhone X is like, "Ha ha, I can tell you're not looking at me anymore.

02:12:28   I'm going to dim my screen to the same power."

02:12:30   and that's annoying people.

02:12:31   So I think these are all things they can

02:12:33   either fix with software or that apparently

02:12:35   we can all fix by changing how we use our phones.

02:12:38   - I mean, it was pretty clearly a choice

02:12:40   to reset people's defaults to this new value.

02:12:43   And you can go in and change it,

02:12:44   but the default does appear to be the lowest,

02:12:47   which is 30 seconds.

02:12:48   And this is one of those things where like,

02:12:51   I think you're partly right, it is nice

02:12:52   that they can tell whether you're looking at it

02:12:53   and they can dim it as a result or not dim it as a result.

02:12:56   But there's a lot, like I, this was one of the,

02:13:00   one of the biggest things that annoyed me about this.

02:13:02   And at first I'm like, you know,

02:13:03   let me just live with this.

02:13:05   And then the problem is, like,

02:13:07   you're then relying on unlocking the phone a lot more often.

02:13:11   Then you're relying on Face ID being really super fast,

02:13:14   which it isn't.

02:13:15   It's moderately fast, but it's not really super fast.

02:13:19   And so I feel like this emphasizes

02:13:21   one of the phone's flaws,

02:13:23   which is that Face ID is slower than Touch ID version two.

02:13:25   And so like, they, and it seems like they did this

02:13:29   as a not so subtle trick to increase battery life

02:13:34   in practice or to reduce OLED burn-in,

02:13:37   which is potentially a big problem down the road.

02:13:39   I don't know, it feels like kind of a cheap move to me.

02:13:42   Like it feels like kind of like an unfair trick, you know?

02:13:44   And if it works, fine, but I found in my first day

02:13:48   of leaving it that way, before I got a note

02:13:50   and just went in and changed the setting

02:13:51   back to five minutes, I thought it was

02:13:53   ridiculously annoying.

02:13:55   (laughs)

02:13:56   So I think it's a bad default.

02:13:57   I think it's a bad assumption or a bad trick,

02:14:01   and they should not be changing people's settings

02:14:04   on migrations for this one fairly critical part

02:14:08   of the way the system behaves.

02:14:10   You know, one thing I found that made it very annoying

02:14:12   is like, you know, I would unlock the phone,

02:14:14   and then maybe I would set it down on a desk

02:14:17   or the counter for a few seconds,

02:14:20   and then I wanna go back to it and pick it back up again.

02:14:22   And maybe it's playing a podcast,

02:14:24   and I want the controls to still be on screen

02:14:25   for a minute while I go do something with my hand

02:14:28   and then go pick it back up again.

02:14:30   It was very frequently turning off

02:14:32   when I was not ready for that to happen yet.

02:14:35   - I kind of give them a pass on changing the defaults.

02:14:37   I understand the reasons, and I feel like

02:14:39   if there's some new feature of your phone,

02:14:41   like oh, we have a way to tell whether you're looking at it,

02:14:43   and people won't see it because their defaults

02:14:45   will be configured for a phone without that feature,

02:14:47   the only way you're gonna get people

02:14:49   to give that feature a chance is by changing their defaults.

02:14:52   It could be considered a little bit user hostile

02:14:54   for power users, but for everybody else,

02:14:55   there's no way they would even notice that other feature.

02:14:58   Now, if that other feature worked

02:15:00   the way they dreamed it did, like the best of both worlds,

02:15:02   it will never dim while you're looking at it,

02:15:04   but it will dim immediately when you're not looking at it,

02:15:06   then it would have been a win,

02:15:07   but it sounds like there's still

02:15:09   a couple of bumps in the road.

02:15:11   And it also sounds like this is an aspect of your life

02:15:13   and me and probably also Casey,

02:15:14   where we're all still using stick shifts,

02:15:16   and that the reason you can get away

02:15:17   with a five minute timeout

02:15:18   is because you put your phone to sleep

02:15:19   when you know you're done using it, right?

02:15:21   (laughing)

02:15:22   Like you're manually shifting.

02:15:23   You'd be like, okay, I'm not gonna glance at you anymore,

02:15:25   and you hit the side button and it goes to sleep.

02:15:27   I know I do that.

02:15:28   I manually put my, my timeout is very long

02:15:30   and I don't worry about battery life

02:15:31   because I control when I know if I,

02:15:34   am I gonna look back at that phone now

02:15:35   or am I done with it for now?

02:15:36   So I turn the screen off essentially.

02:15:38   - Yeah, all right, maybe.

02:15:40   But anyway, I found that an annoying default

02:15:44   and I was extra annoyed that it overrode

02:15:46   my previous setting and so yeah.

02:15:49   I think that's a bad move or a bad trick

02:15:51   and I wish they would change that.

02:15:53   But otherwise, yeah, otherwise I'm really enjoying

02:15:57   this phone, and once I changed that setting,

02:16:00   that helped a lot on that front.

02:16:01   Yeah, I really like it.

02:16:03   It is certainly taking time to get used to

02:16:06   in the way that, as I mentioned earlier,

02:16:08   how the top area of the screen is so hard to reach for me,

02:16:12   like holding it one-handed.

02:16:14   I am still doing the support pinky on the bottom,

02:16:16   so basically holding the phone by the bottom half,

02:16:19   which means that, and in my left hand,

02:16:22   which means that I can use my thumb on my left hand

02:16:25   to just barely reach the upper left ear

02:16:27   next to the status bar,

02:16:29   but I can't reach the upper right of the screen anymore.

02:16:31   So that's a little bit annoying.

02:16:33   And I feel like this is gonna be an area,

02:16:36   I kinda touched on this on Under the Radar this week,

02:16:39   I feel like iOS has to now adopt to a new reality

02:16:43   that's actually been building over the last couple years

02:16:46   since we've had the Plus phones,

02:16:47   where a lot of people can't reach

02:16:51   top of the screen very easily anymore.

02:16:53   So iOS I think has to, and the built-in system apps

02:16:57   and many other apps, have to reduce the dependence

02:17:00   on putting frequently used buttons and things

02:17:04   at the top of the screen.

02:17:06   And this is some pretty fundamental iOS stuff

02:17:08   that will have to change the result of this,

02:17:10   like navigation bars, or edit buttons, or done buttons,

02:17:14   or cancel buttons that are up in the top bars.

02:17:16   That's a pretty common design pattern.

02:17:18   Apps that have hamburger buttons in the upper left corner,

02:17:20   like stuff like that, this is gonna be a major shift

02:17:25   that all apps and the OS now have to do.

02:17:28   So iOS 11 kind of half designed itself for this

02:17:32   by having those giant navigation bar titles

02:17:35   that push the first row of content down.

02:17:38   I see why they did that now, that makes sense now.

02:17:40   I don't think it looks very good, but it makes sense

02:17:42   and it works well, even though it doesn't look great.

02:17:45   It does work better on the iPhone X

02:17:47   to have the content pushed down a little bit

02:17:49   for that first row to be more accessible to your thumb.

02:17:52   But they have to do a lot more.

02:17:54   And so I feel like iOS 11 is like a baby step

02:17:58   towards accommodating the new reality

02:18:00   of larger screen phones where we can't reach

02:18:03   the top and bottom as easily as we used to.

02:18:05   And this is, and I hope that iOS 12 and beyond

02:18:09   go further in that direction, 'cause they need to.

02:18:13   - So the big text at the top,

02:18:15   I don't mind the looks that much,

02:18:17   and you're right, it makes much more sense

02:18:19   the context of taller phones like this, but one thing I noticed when I was in the Apple

02:18:23   store hanging around waiting to pick up the phone and looking at all the iPhone 10s is

02:18:28   two things. One, I was surprised at how many of them had non-default text size and I wondered

02:18:34   if Apple had set that up or if people were just messing with the phones that set it up,

02:18:38   like the whatever the setting is for like large text and stuff. I don't know if it's

02:18:41   an accessibility or if it's the Zoom or whatever. And picking one up that's like that, I was

02:18:47   like, "Oh, this iPhone X, something looks weird about the screen, like all the letters

02:18:51   are really big." I'm like, "Oh, someone just changed it to be non-default." Right? But

02:18:55   even on the ones that were in standard size, because then I would like, I would change

02:18:59   the size to be standard or what I thought was standard, and I'd be like, "Huh, the text

02:19:03   looks kind of bigger here too." And I might have just been fooled by the fact that the

02:19:06   screen is bigger and that the applications I was using were all Apple apps that had the

02:19:10   big chunky thing on it and I think in general making text bigger and more

02:19:16   legible on larger screen phones is a smart move because while we may want

02:19:21   bigger screens to get more screen real estate as we get older and as we get

02:19:25   more Casey like bigger text on a bigger phone it becomes really important like

02:19:36   the whole reason you want a bigger phone is not so you can see more text it's so

02:19:40   that the text on the phone can be bigger and bolder and easier to pick out.

02:19:45   And moving the OS in the direction of having more bigger, bolder text, I know you're not

02:19:50   like even in the regular thing, the big bold text at the top is really big.

02:19:54   It just makes it a lot more clear than it used to be where the heck are you and what

02:19:59   are you looking at?

02:20:00   And so I mostly endorse that direction even if aesthetically sometimes it seems a little

02:20:06   bit jarring, just because, maybe it's because I'm getting older, but I like the idea of

02:20:11   not being, you know, it's a continuing move on the spectrum from incredibly precious iOS

02:20:17   7 that we would slowly, gradually be moving away from to become a more practical OS that

02:20:24   is more usable for actual people, but looks less good if you were to print it on a poster

02:20:29   and treat it as a beautiful, you know, typographic display of prowess and elegance, but if you

02:20:35   you just have to read the text,

02:20:36   I kind of prefer the chunkiness that we've got now.

02:20:39   - We've spent a lot of time talking about

02:20:42   the kind of gotchas and not oopses,

02:20:45   but the things that I hadn't heard a whole lot about,

02:20:49   so it sounds way more negative,

02:20:52   or at least I think I sound way more negative than I intend.

02:20:55   This phone is tremendous, and if you have the means,

02:20:59   I highly suggest picking one up,

02:21:00   and that's a reference draw.

02:21:02   - Yeah, I think you blew the quote slightly.

02:21:05   But I couldn't exactly correct you, so I won't.

02:21:08   So my impression, again, is not my own phone.

02:21:11   I'm of two minds about it.

02:21:13   One, all the things that I just talked about

02:21:15   and complained about, on the one hand,

02:21:18   made me feel like I'm kind of okay with waiting out this gen

02:21:22   and seeing how things shake out for the next one,

02:21:25   because this changes a lot of stuff.

02:21:27   And my sort of comfortable iPhone 7, it works great.

02:21:31   I love my iPhone 7.

02:21:32   I'm very comfortable with it.

02:21:33   I don't have to change any of my habits

02:21:34   to get to using it.

02:21:35   But on the other hand, the iPhone X is like

02:21:39   the most interesting and exciting new piece of technology

02:21:42   I've had in a long time.

02:21:44   Just because from a tech nerd perspective,

02:21:47   it's so fascinating what it's doing

02:21:49   with all its different sensors.

02:21:50   Even silly things like Animoji

02:21:51   that we still haven't talked about.

02:21:53   Like and all the other third-party applications

02:21:54   that are using it and then Face ID

02:21:56   and the dual cameras and everything.

02:21:58   It's an exciting tech gadget.

02:22:00   If you are into tech gadgets,

02:22:02   I would highly recommend the iPhone 10,

02:22:04   even if it is quote unquote a worse phone for you

02:22:06   because you have to retrain your habits or whatever.

02:22:08   It is, it's interesting and exciting in a way

02:22:11   that iOS devices haven't been in a long time.

02:22:13   I'm trying to think of what the most recent one was.

02:22:15   Maybe the iPhone 4 when I went in retina,

02:22:17   and maybe for me personally, like the iPad Pro 9.7,

02:22:22   which was just this little, you know, packed in powerhouse.

02:22:25   But this is the most exciting iOS device

02:22:28   in a really long time.

02:22:29   if you are a tech nerd, which everyone may not be.

02:22:31   So if you're on the fence about this,

02:22:34   I mean, and you haven't like tried it

02:22:36   and you wanna just kind of judge,

02:22:37   it will force you to change some habits

02:22:40   and things will be different and weird,

02:22:41   but it is really cool and exciting.

02:22:43   And you will have fun playing with it

02:22:46   if you're the kind of person

02:22:47   who just really appreciates tech for tech's sake.

02:22:51   And I think in the end, this is also a very good phone.

02:22:55   I will let my wife be the arbiter of that

02:22:58   because she's the one using it every day.

02:23:00   But I'm pretty sure she's not gonna say,

02:23:02   forget this and go for an eight plus.

02:23:04   But I'll give you weekly updates for a little while

02:23:07   just to let you know what she's thinking of it

02:23:10   because she is not one who's like,

02:23:13   oh, I'm just excited about the technology.

02:23:14   She is not excited about technology at all, right?

02:23:17   So she is a good test for, I don't care about tech stuff.

02:23:21   Is this a good phone or not?

02:23:22   And she really liked her success plus

02:23:24   other than it getting slow.

02:23:26   So I think she's a good test case.

02:23:27   So more to come on this.

02:23:30   - Really quickly, what you're saying about the iPhone X

02:23:33   being just a cool gadget, I think the guys on connected

02:23:38   had some really great thoughts on this.

02:23:40   And I think it was mostly Mike that was saying,

02:23:43   you know, this is the first time in several years

02:23:45   that I've been like really, really amped and excited

02:23:50   to get a new phone in a, well, we're always amped

02:23:53   and excited, but you know what I mean?

02:23:54   Like this is the first, you know, new hardware

02:23:57   where people are saying, "Oh, this is the new thing.

02:24:00   "Oh, is it good?"

02:24:01   Whereas in past years it was, "Oh, is that the seven?

02:24:05   "Oh, is it cool?

02:24:06   "What makes it better again?"

02:24:08   And it's not that anymore,

02:24:10   and Connected did a really good segment on that.

02:24:12   Anyway, Marco, closing thoughts?

02:24:15   - The funny thing is, like in a couple of these interviews,

02:24:17   the Apple executives have said that they basically,

02:24:20   that the iPhone X was originally supposed to come out

02:24:22   next year, and they moved it up a year.

02:24:25   Imagine if it didn't come out this year,

02:24:27   like it was originally scheduled.

02:24:29   Imagine if all we had this year was the iPhone 8.

02:24:33   And the iPhone 8's a fine phone,

02:24:35   but man, that would've been boring.

02:24:38   That would've been a really, really boring year.

02:24:41   And so I'm really glad we have this.

02:24:44   But yeah, ultimately, with a lot of Apple progress

02:24:48   in recent years, it seems like,

02:24:53   It seems like we can't take unqualified progress anymore.

02:24:57   It seems like every advancement comes with

02:25:00   significant downsides or--

02:25:04   - Casey already said that.

02:25:05   You're trying to say nothing is so perfect.

02:25:09   - No, no one's ever said that before.

02:25:10   Well, I'm sure someone invented it, just probably not you.

02:25:13   Anyway.

02:25:13   (laughing)

02:25:15   No, so often we've had to swallow a bitter pill

02:25:19   to get the new stuff.

02:25:22   there's been some massive downside.

02:25:24   And this still is the case with a lot of Apple's

02:25:26   product lines, the laptops.

02:25:28   But with this phone, I really thought that would be

02:25:31   the case, I really thought there would be

02:25:32   much bigger downsides.

02:25:34   Like I really thought that Face ID would be more limited

02:25:39   or would have more gotchas or more places

02:25:42   where it wouldn't work right.

02:25:43   I really thought that losing the home button

02:25:46   or accepting the notch would be worse.

02:25:49   And it mostly isn't.

02:25:51   There isn't much downside to this

02:25:54   with the one large exception of cost.

02:25:56   That's a big one.

02:25:57   But with the exception of that,

02:25:59   which is often an Apple thing you have to accept,

02:26:02   we got a really, really awesome and notably new,

02:26:07   as you said, like a new phone,

02:26:10   really something new here without significant downsides.

02:26:14   And that's pretty awesome.

02:26:16   And most of the small annoyances that I have with it

02:26:20   are really small, or things that could be pretty easily

02:26:25   fixed with just some software updates,

02:26:27   or redesigning some of the software aspects of it.

02:26:31   So overall, I'm really happy with it.

02:26:34   And it's not like totally perfect, but it's pretty great.

02:26:39   - Yeah, I mean, I know we are not the first to say it,

02:26:42   and this is not the first time we've said it tonight,

02:26:43   but it really does feel like the phone of the future.

02:26:45   It really, really does, and that's awesome.

02:26:48   And the great thing is it's the phone of the present.

02:26:50   - Yep.

02:26:51   - Thanks for our sponsors this week.

02:26:53   Warby Parker, Squarespace, and Fracture.

02:26:55   And we will see you next week.

02:26:57   (upbeat music)

02:26:59   Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin

02:27:04   'Cause it was accidental (accidental)

02:27:06   Oh, it was accidental (accidental)

02:27:10   John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

02:27:14   'Cause it was accidental (accidental)

02:27:17   Oh, it was accidental (accidental)

02:27:20   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

02:27:25   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

02:27:29   @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

02:27:34   So that's Kasey Liszt, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

02:27:38   Anti-Marco Arment

02:27:41   S-I-R-A-C

02:27:43   U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A

02:27:46   It's accidental

02:27:49   They didn't mean to

02:27:51   Accidental

02:27:54   Tech podcast so long

02:27:58   So I have a brief story to tell. On the way to San Francisco, and on the way back actually,

02:28:06   but each direction I spent time going through the just tremendous amount of footage I took of the

02:28:16   Alfa Romeo because I'm trying to basically cut out the pieces that I will then put together to make

02:28:23   the movie, you know what I mean? So if I have like an in-car video that lasts 15 minutes, maybe a

02:28:29   minute and a half of that is potentially usable. So I'm trying to amass all those like, you know,

02:28:34   30 second, one minute, three minute clips. And so this way, I'll know what I can build the video out

02:28:41   of. And so what that entails is going through and watching all of this video. So I flew direct from

02:28:49   Dulles to San Francisco in back and it wasn't until almost the very end of the flight to San Francisco that it occurred to me I

02:28:57   Am a passenger on an airplane that has like a couple hundred other people in it now granted

02:29:04   Not all 200 or whatever other people were near me, but there were 10 or 15 people near ish to me and

02:29:13   if you were one of those people and

02:29:16   looked at me in my computer screen at any point for six hours straight I was watching movies of

02:29:23   myself

02:29:25   for six freaking hours

02:29:27   What you would think if you saw some moron watching movies of himself for six hours straight like how you were at you were

02:29:36   Doing it for the purposes of editing. Was there nothing on screen that made that well

02:29:39   At first I was doing some stuff in Final Cut Pro

02:29:42   But later what I was doing is I was watching these videos

02:29:45   And I'm sure that this is not necessary and that I could have just done it in Final Cut Pro

02:29:49   But this is the way I would I wanted to take care of it

02:29:52   I was watching the videos and then using FFmpeg to snip you know the beginning and end in order to get just the little clip

02:30:00   I wanted which is a hilariously boring thing to do on a MacBook adorable, but nevertheless that's what I was doing

02:30:06   I recognize that is not the most efficient way

02:30:08   I recognize that maybe if I do more of these this that I will laugh at how terrible an idea that was but for this

02:30:14   First one that's what I wanted to do

02:30:16   Does it losslessly cut it at least it's I don't think it's a hundred percent lossless, but it's

02:30:23   It's like virtually spotless not a hundred percent lossless is called lossy

02:30:28   It's lossy, but you know, are you on the Wi-Fi or was this offline?

02:30:32   No, this was offline

02:30:34   How the hell did you use FFmpeg without being able to search the web for how to use it? Yeah, right?

02:30:39   He's got a text file where he saved the commands I guarantee

02:30:42   It's close so sir

02:30:45   I've gotten good enough with FFmpeg that most basic things that I would ever want to do including trimming from free

02:30:52   You know is specifying a start time and then specifying a duration

02:30:55   I know those off the top of my head now because I do them

02:30:58   Somewhat regularly for reasons. I don't want to discuss on air, but I will tell you two later

02:31:03   You trim a lot of trucks? Well, yes, actually. All right, well, okay, so now I'm committed.

02:31:09   It turns out that certain PBS television shows that your child may or may not enjoy,

02:31:17   there's a new, well actually two new episodes shown every single week, but they're two episodes

02:31:25   in one file. So if one were to, I don't know, maybe hypothetically use a tool to

02:31:33   download things from sites like YouTube and then get a single file on your local

02:31:39   machine, keep that episode, yeah, and you should definitely keep it on the DL. And

02:31:44   you had one file on your local machine that you then needed to split into two

02:31:47   files to, I don't know, hypothetically put into some sort of media management

02:31:51   program. Anyway, you would need to know and use these

02:31:55   FFmpeg commands. Point being, a lot of stuff I know offhand, but I also have a folder in

02:32:02   my Apple Notes repository that is just five or ten different FFmpeg incantations and how

02:32:13   to make those work. So as an example, I needed to twist a video 90 degrees because I had

02:32:20   filmed it in portrait, so to speak. It was a GoPro, but it was the footage I took of

02:32:26   the back of the car, so it was pointing at the exhaust. And the way in which I was able

02:32:31   to quickly mount the GoPro, I effectively filmed in portrait. And so I needed to...

02:32:36   Or, well, I forget what it was. It was filmed in landscape, the subject was portrait. You

02:32:40   get the idea. The point is just that I needed to rotate the video. And so that I ended up

02:32:46   looking up like when I got to the hotel or something like that and put an entry for that

02:32:49   in my little repository of FFmpeg incantations. So anyway, but the point is, I bring all this

02:32:55   story up just to make everyone laugh because it occurred to me how self-obsessed and obnoxious

02:33:00   and maybe not obnoxious but ridiculous must I look that I've spent now 12 straight hours

02:33:06   effectively watching movies of myself because who wouldn't want to watch movies of me, am

02:33:11   I right?

02:33:12   if I was on that plane, if I saw you,

02:33:15   like, you know that story, like that some famous artist,

02:33:18   like in order to prove his art ability,

02:33:21   he drew a perfect circle freehand,

02:33:24   whatever that story was, you know that?

02:33:25   Anyway, if I'm sitting next to you on a plane

02:33:27   and I'm seeing you, use FFmpeg without doing a web search.

02:33:32   That, like, it's like, oh my God, this person is a genius.

02:33:36   Like, I bow down to your skill, sir.

02:33:40   Like, this is incredible.

02:33:42   I'm witnessing history here.

02:33:44   That to me would be the equivalent

02:33:46   of the freehand circle thing.

02:33:49   Anything else you were doing I wouldn't even see.

02:33:51   I wouldn't even notice you were editing video of yourself

02:33:53   for six hours.

02:33:55   I would just be like, "Oh my God,

02:33:56   "did he just do FFmpeg without a Google search first?

02:33:59   "How, how did this work?"

02:34:01   - It's really not that impressive,

02:34:03   but I appreciate it nevertheless.

02:34:04   - There is a man page, right?

02:34:05   I mean, you don't need the internet to get--

02:34:07   - Have you looked at the man, well--

02:34:09   - You need the internet.

02:34:10   (laughs)

02:34:11   - And also let's remember that this is John Saracusa

02:34:13   who writes Pearl for a Living.

02:34:14   So it wouldn't surprise me if you could handle the man page,

02:34:18   but my brain is too feeble for the man page.

02:34:20   I need examples and I need clear examples of like,

02:34:24   I want to trim a video, what do I do?

02:34:27   Rather than, if you would like to specify a start location

02:34:30   and a duration, this is what you need to do.

02:34:32   You know, like it's just the man page is not written

02:34:36   in such a way that it's easy to understand.

02:34:39   - Yeah, six hours, you can read it all.

02:34:41   - It's true.

02:34:42   - I'm not sure again.

02:34:43   [BEEPING]