246: I Just Want My Stories


00:00:00   Oh, God, I can't imagine having to put a key in a steering column. Oh, gross.

00:00:04   Like an animal.

00:00:05   It's fun. Twisting the key is fun. Yeah.

00:00:08   Oh, John, how do you live, man?

00:00:10   Get in, foot down on the clutch, foot on the brake, twist the key. That motion is still,

00:00:15   you know, it's a thing.

00:00:16   You know what's even better than that? Get in, push the gas.

00:00:19   Yeah, I'm sure Tiff loves it when you just get out of her car and leave it rolling down the driveway.

00:00:23   Put the engine with the engine running.

00:00:26   Running and unlocked.

00:00:27   - Running and unlocked.

00:00:27   (laughing)

00:00:28   - Running and unlocked.

00:00:30   - All the windows open, air conditioning on, radio blaring.

00:00:34   - The sick thing is you're probably serious.

00:00:36   I bet this has happened at least once.

00:00:37   - I have not left it like in gear rolling,

00:00:40   but I have left his car running and unlocked.

00:00:42   (laughing)

00:00:44   - Good God.

00:00:45   Oh man, you're so spoiled.

00:00:48   (electronic beeping)

00:00:50   All right, so let's start the show

00:00:52   and we'll start with some neutral follow-up.

00:00:56   Apparently people pay attention to racing cars and people pay attention to Formula One. I'm not really clear why and

00:01:02   Apparently, please please write Marco

00:01:06   apparently

00:01:08   Pretty much every racing car has its paddles on the wheel

00:01:11   I was lamenting last week that the Alfa Romeo had its paddles on the column which I've heard other like car reviewers

00:01:19   And in people like that say oh it always has to be on the column

00:01:23   But I don't really understand why, because I didn't like it that way, and I had at the

00:01:27   same time a BMW loaner, an F30 loaner, and that had the paddles on the wheel, and I much

00:01:34   preferred that.

00:01:35   So anyway, a lot of people wrote in to say, "Pretty much every racing car has the paddles

00:01:40   on the wheel.

00:01:41   You are right.

00:01:42   That's where it should be."

00:01:44   And somebody, and I don't remember who this was, I apologize, but somebody said to me,

00:01:48   and this is just a theory, but I mean it makes sense to me, "Maybe it's less of a big deal

00:01:51   for race car drivers because their wheels don't typically do like an entire revolution. If you

00:01:56   think about it, they're typically doing maybe a 30 or 60 or maybe a 90 degree turn, but I would

00:02:02   assume not often, not much more than that. If I'm wrong, I don't really care. It was just a thought

00:02:08   exercise. So no big deal, but I just thought I'd cover that really quickly. I did have to-

00:02:12   **Matt Stauffer** A lot of the responses related to this were due to me musing about what F1 cars

00:02:17   might be and knowing nothing about F1. And I had a brain fart there. That was my bad. I was like,

00:02:20   Like F1 cars, they don't even use paddles because they got all those buttons on the

00:02:24   steering wheel.

00:02:25   And while there is very often a button to shift into neutral, they still use paddles

00:02:29   for everything.

00:02:30   So never mind on that.

00:02:33   I did have to give the Alfa Romeo back.

00:02:34   I was very, very sad.

00:02:36   It pulled away and I wept.

00:02:39   Not really, but I was sad.

00:02:41   And now I'm back to my BMW.

00:02:43   Life is rough, I tell you.

00:02:44   God, I sound like such an intolerable piece of crap.

00:02:46   All right, moving on.

00:02:47   Let's, oh, actually it's getting no better as it turns out.

00:02:50   Let's talk about our iPhone orders and our $1,000 phones.

00:02:53   I quit.

00:02:54   This is just going nowhere good.

00:02:56   - So I think one of the biggest things that we have learned

00:03:00   in this entire iPhone 10 cycle

00:03:03   is that the rumor mill is completely full of now.

00:03:08   Like it's complete all of it.

00:03:11   It's turned out so much of it was complete.

00:03:15   (phone chimes)

00:03:16   - Yeah, and we were complicit,

00:03:18   or at least I'll speak for myself.

00:03:19   I was complicit in it because I was probably the most worried of the three of us about

00:03:24   not getting a phone until 2020.

00:03:26   And I was freaking out about it for no reason.

00:03:29   Well, as it turns out, spoiler alert, no reason.

00:03:33   But yeah, I was just as deep in this as anyone else, if not more so.

00:03:37   And I don't know, I was trying to like do a retrospective, which is a word that you

00:03:41   don't really understand, Marco, but John will.

00:03:44   I was trying to have my own little one-man retro meeting.

00:03:46   meeting. I believe it's called a post-mortem in the parking lot. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, so you do know.

00:03:50   So anyway, so I was tossing things into the parking lot as I was having my one-person

00:03:56   retro, and I don't really know specifically where this notion came from. I mean, I was one of the

00:04:03   ones parroting it, so I'm guilty. I am 150% guilty, but where did we all get it in our brains? This is

00:04:10   not just the three of us. This is the royal us. Where did all the talking heads get it in their

00:04:14   brains that it was going to be this bad. Like where did this come from?

00:04:18   Well, I mean, the phone is supply constrained and people had guesses about how many they

00:04:22   were going to make and there were lots of stories about part shortages. So that's

00:04:27   what it was. It was basically like, "Oh, they can't make enough of those 3D dot thingies."

00:04:30   And supposedly they lowered their standards for the dot thingies to make more of them.

00:04:34   But then Apple said, "No, we didn't do that. That's BS." I mean, at this point,

00:04:38   the past few cycles, you have to imagine that a lot of those stories about Apple's manufacturing

00:04:44   problems and blah blah blah are things motivated or not planted by competitors but like that

00:04:51   they're that they're motivated stories that somebody wants to put that information out

00:04:55   there to sow doubt into Apple's situation. Now they you know they don't have enough iPhone

00:05:02   tends to go around just like they don't have enough of any they don't have enough iPhone

00:05:06   you know sevens to go around certainly not the jet black there's always shortages right

00:05:10   It's very difficult to tell until Apple starts reporting numbers exactly how big the shortage

00:05:15   was.

00:05:16   But last show, all we were talking about was, "Will we be able to get our phones?"

00:05:20   Forget about how many Apple sells and so on and so forth, although we did touch on that

00:05:23   briefly.

00:05:24   But everything was just estimates.

00:05:25   Like that one newspaper or whatever said it looks like they're going to have four times

00:05:29   fewer phones as in previous years.

00:05:34   Well, we'll find out when Apple reports how many iPhones did they sell between launch

00:05:38   and the end of the year, although they have a fiscal year, I don't know how this all works.

00:05:41   But anyway, we'll find out. And it could be that the numbers are dead on, really. They

00:05:47   sold one-fourth as many as they did last year. But that's not what we're talking about here.

00:05:51   What we're talking about here is we were all staying up till 3 a.m. to order phones, and

00:05:55   some of us were very, very pessimistic about getting a phone anytime soon. So how did it

00:06:00   go for everybody, assuming we all stayed up?

00:06:03   I think it's pretty safe to say that Marco and I did, and since I've got the mic, I will

00:06:08   say that I stayed up.

00:06:10   My experience was slightly worse than the watch, than the LTE watch.

00:06:15   My experience with the LTE watch was stunningly good.

00:06:17   It was, the Apple Store app was live at 3.01 or something like that.

00:06:21   I was in and out in no time.

00:06:23   In this instance, it was typical Apple, which is to say five to ten minutes late.

00:06:28   Now, in the defense of Apple, maybe that's an aggregation issue or something to do with CDNs.

00:06:35   I'm now outside of my comfort zone. But one way or another, it was like 305-ish that everything woke

00:06:42   up. I did use the Apple Store app, and surprisingly, I heard a fair bit of reports from like Twitter and

00:06:48   whatnot that the Apple Store app was not the pretty much flawless experience for everyone

00:06:52   that it had been for the last few years. I had a few people say that they actually had better luck

00:06:56   on the website, which is stunning, because anytime I've tried that it's been a disaster.

00:07:01   But anyway, about 3.05 I ordered my phone, and then I rolled over and ordered Aaron's

00:07:07   phone and got both of them, and they should be here Friday.

00:07:11   So it worked out really, really well for me, to a degree that I did not expect.

00:07:16   I did choose to ship to home.

00:07:18   I was thinking about doing a store pickup, which I've never done before, and I know would

00:07:23   get me my phone earlier in the day, because typically UPS doesn't get to us until like

00:07:26   five or six at night on iPhone day, but I was scared that just going through that whole

00:07:31   process, especially when I'm unfamiliar with it, would slow me down too much and I would

00:07:35   lose my chance. So both of them will be delivered to the house sometime Friday. So I'm working

00:07:41   from home Friday, if you happen to be listening to this from my job. I will be here at the

00:07:45   house making sure that I know.

00:07:47   I'm sick.

00:07:48   No, I mean, everyone knows exactly what's happening. Marco, how did it fare for you?

00:07:54   similar. I used the app as usual. The app didn't come up for me until like, you

00:08:00   know, 305 or 306 like it was way and like I was in some slacks were like

00:08:04   some people are already completing the entire orders and reporting back what

00:08:07   their dates were when they completed the order before my store was even up. But

00:08:10   that happens all the time. I mean the Apple ordering process with the iPhones

00:08:14   has gotten really, really good with just that one exception. The only part about

00:08:20   about it that really feels unfair is that there's a huge

00:08:24   variance in when people's stores come up and it could be

00:08:28   like fifteen minutes apart like it's a big variance and so

00:08:32   some people said they saw the store like at two fifty eight

00:08:35   so and some people didn't see the store until three ten and

00:08:38   like it's a huge range. Usually I fall on the on the

00:08:41   worst side of this range like usually for me it's it's

00:08:44   somewhere around like five five or six minutes after the

00:08:46   an hour. And you can try alternating between cellular and Wi-Fi to be on different networks.

00:08:54   Some people suggested even trying a VPN. I didn't get that far into it. I didn't think

00:08:57   about it at three in the morning, surprisingly. But it just seems like it's a total crapshoot

00:09:04   when your store will come up. And that makes a pretty big difference in whether you get

00:09:09   one on day one or not, usually. If yours comes up at 3.07, you're probably not getting day

00:09:15   day one delivery on most high profile products.

00:09:19   Same thing happened with the watch.

00:09:21   Any kind of high profile 3 a.m. Apple launch,

00:09:23   usually this is a problem.

00:09:24   Jet black phone, same problem.

00:09:26   So the whole rest of the system feels very good

00:09:29   and very fair and it has dramatically improved

00:09:32   over the last few years.

00:09:33   And it's just that one piece that feels,

00:09:36   like if you're on the bad end of that,

00:09:37   it feels like you're getting screwed for no reason.

00:09:39   So I hope Apple can figure out a way to improve that.

00:09:42   I've never done anything on their scale before,

00:09:46   but I have done high-scale things.

00:09:47   It is possible to make everything go up

00:09:49   at almost exactly the same time.

00:09:53   That is a thing that can happen on the internet.

00:09:54   It's not easy, but it's possible.

00:09:57   So if they prioritize that,

00:09:59   maybe they don't realize how annoying this is,

00:10:01   but I hope someone, I hope whoever at Apple

00:10:03   cares a lot about these things, about getting these right,

00:10:06   about building into systems like the thing

00:10:08   where if it can't contact the carrier,

00:10:09   it reserves it for you and emails you again tomorrow.

00:10:12   Like, a lot of thought has gone into that system,

00:10:15   and for the most part it's great.

00:10:17   And there's just this one big glaring problem with it

00:10:19   that I hope they can figure out a way to fix,

00:10:21   or at least reduce that variance in CDN availability,

00:10:25   so that like, maybe everyone's store comes up

00:10:27   in the same one minute instead of the same 15 minutes.

00:10:29   That's the only thing about the system that feels unfair.

00:10:32   A lot of it's competitive, a lot of it's cutthroat,

00:10:34   but all of it feels fair, except that.

00:10:37   - Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:10:39   I can't think of any particular way that they could do better with it. I mean, I guess maybe

00:10:46   a lottery, but I think just like we lamented when WWDC went to a lottery, I think there's something

00:10:53   to be said for having the dedication to wake up at three in the morning if you're on the East Coast

00:11:00   to actually ensure that you get one initially. In the same way, WWDC rewarded the people who had

00:11:07   seven different notification strategies

00:11:09   in order to know when tickets went on sale.

00:11:11   And maybe a more fair answer would be a lottery,

00:11:14   but if not that, I think you're right,

00:11:17   that this is as fair as it can get

00:11:19   with the CDN propagation issues notwithstanding.

00:11:23   - And the thing is, a lottery,

00:11:24   like a few people have said that,

00:11:25   I think it's such a more complicated thing

00:11:28   than WBC tickets.

00:11:29   First of all, you're talking about

00:11:31   allocating 5,000 conference tickets

00:11:33   versus 10 million phones.

00:11:36   There's a pretty big difference in scale.

00:11:38   And of course the phones are tied to carrier things

00:11:41   and have to be checked out with carriers.

00:11:43   The phones are way more complicated than WBC

00:11:45   and there's way more of them.

00:11:46   So the same system doesn't necessarily apply.

00:11:49   Again, I think the system they have, I agree with you.

00:11:51   I think it's fine.

00:11:52   They just need to fix that one thing.

00:11:54   Anyway, so all that being said,

00:11:56   I did wake up at three in the morning.

00:11:58   I did place an order successfully

00:11:59   for my iPhone 10 on day one delivery.

00:12:03   I didn't do store pickup, just a delivery.

00:12:05   The store pickup is fine, but you still have to wait

00:12:08   in such a long line for pickup on day one.

00:12:11   Like if you're not day one and you do pick up at the store,

00:12:14   it's much faster, you know, there's basically no line

00:12:16   or a very short one.

00:12:17   But on day one, you're waiting on line

00:12:19   just like everyone else, you're just waiting on like

00:12:21   a different roped off section of the line

00:12:23   if you have reservations, but you're still gonna be there

00:12:26   for like two hours, you know.

00:12:27   So I'm looking forward to it.

00:12:28   Anyway, just to conclude the room mill thing

00:12:30   before we leave this topic, in general,

00:12:32   The room mill has gotten so much wrong

00:12:35   since about a year ago or so when there was a rumor

00:12:39   going around that one of Mark Gurman's big sources

00:12:43   was escorted out of campus very publicly.

00:12:47   I don't know if that was true or not,

00:12:49   but it certainly does seem like there's not a lot of leaks

00:12:53   out of Apple anymore.

00:12:55   By far, the most credible information we got

00:12:59   about the iPhone X leaked out of Apple itself.

00:13:02   in their two software leaks.

00:13:04   It didn't leak out of anywhere else.

00:13:06   Like the rumor mill was basically empty.

00:13:10   All they were doing for the most part

00:13:12   was reporting on what Apple accidentally leaked.

00:13:16   Almost everything else they reported ended up being BS.

00:13:19   Like now as we're getting more information about the phone,

00:13:22   people are using the phone,

00:13:23   we're hearing more from Apple executives

00:13:25   like on the record stories and stuff,

00:13:27   it certainly seems like the entire

00:13:28   like touch ID under the glass thing was completely false.

00:13:31   that there are now multiple Apple executives

00:13:33   directly stating that in interviews.

00:13:35   And I'm inclined to believe them.

00:13:36   I don't think they would lie about that kind of thing.

00:13:38   I think that it wouldn't serve them at all to lie about that.

00:13:40   We're now hearing things like the face ID

00:13:44   having issues and everything.

00:13:46   Those are probably BS too.

00:13:47   The component thing having adjustments,

00:13:49   Apple directly called that out and denied it,

00:13:52   which they never do for things like that.

00:13:54   Like that's unprecedented for the most part.

00:13:56   So that also I'm inclined to believe

00:13:58   because they so rarely ever comment

00:14:00   and things like that publicly.

00:14:01   So like, that was probably BS.

00:14:03   It seems like anything that was about supply

00:14:06   being super short was probably BS too,

00:14:10   because here's the thing, right now,

00:14:12   so everyone, us, other podcasters,

00:14:15   tech podcasters, the rumor sites,

00:14:17   we were all expecting this to be

00:14:18   a massive backorder situation.

00:14:21   We were saying on the show, like, you know,

00:14:23   2018 isn't that far away.

00:14:25   We were all saying like, we would be lucky

00:14:27   to get, waking up at 3 a.m.,

00:14:30   we'd be lucky to get it by December.

00:14:32   And then it won't be too long before it's 2018.

00:14:35   Well guess what?

00:14:36   Right now, today, as we record almost a week later,

00:14:39   the latest estimates say five to six weeks.

00:14:42   That's mid-December.

00:14:43   A week later, you can still order it

00:14:46   and have it come this year,

00:14:47   'cause then this year's almost over.

00:14:49   So that's pretty good.

00:14:51   So one of two things is true.

00:14:54   Either there is way less demand for this phone

00:14:57   than anybody thought, which I think is pretty unlikely.

00:15:00   Or most of those reports about there being

00:15:03   incredibly short supplies and everything are wrong.

00:15:06   So that just adds even more to the pile of rumors

00:15:10   that were wrong about the iPhone X.

00:15:11   Like we heard so many.

00:15:13   Everything about the software we heard was wrong.

00:15:16   Like everything about the home indicator situation,

00:15:19   the home gesture, that was all wrong.

00:15:21   Like we heard so much wrong stuff about the iPhone X.

00:15:25   Really, this has been a bad year for the Apple rumor game.

00:15:30   And in some ways, it's kind of like, you know,

00:15:32   Good Riddance, it was getting a little bit too good.

00:15:34   (laughs)

00:15:35   It was getting, it was starting to get

00:15:36   like a little too spoilery on a lot of the new products.

00:15:39   You know, I'm saying this here, not only to call them out,

00:15:44   but also to kind of help the world help me remind myself

00:15:49   when I get caught up in talking about these rumors,

00:15:52   'cause I too, like you said Casey,

00:15:53   I too have been totally complicit

00:15:54   in discussing these rumors as if they were almost

00:15:57   a sure thing or if they were a sure thing

00:15:58   because for so long, the rumors were that good.

00:16:01   Like for so long in like the heyday of Mark Gurman

00:16:03   like two years ago, they actually,

00:16:06   like they were getting every detail of every product.

00:16:09   Like they were nailing so much before the release.

00:16:13   It was actually really unfun.

00:16:15   It was like, it was kind of fun to be a commentator

00:16:17   but it was unfun to like watch the events

00:16:19   and just see them unveil the things

00:16:21   that you already knew about like two months ago

00:16:23   great detail, no less.

00:16:25   But we all, all of us commentators and Apple fans

00:16:28   and readers of these sites and followers of the Apple news,

00:16:32   we all have to now readjust from that time

00:16:36   that now we have to probably assume

00:16:39   that most of the rumors that we're hearing are wrong

00:16:41   rather than assuming that they're right

00:16:43   and then figuring out later that some of them are wrong.

00:16:45   - Let me do the opposite of helping you, Marco,

00:16:47   and say once again that I generally disagree

00:16:49   with your assessment that the rumor was off.

00:16:52   Before Apple's leaks, we knew all screen OLED phone with Face ID.

00:16:59   Face ID leaked.

00:17:00   Face ID leaked so early before any software leaks.

00:17:04   And yes, there were tons of reports about details that were wrong.

00:17:07   And yes, Apple's exec said, you know, we committed to Face ID

00:17:10   and we never really spent any time trying

00:17:12   to do under the screen or aside things and stuff like that.

00:17:15   That's all well and good, right?

00:17:16   But there's always a certain amount of noise.

00:17:18   So even before Apple software leaks, which were massive

00:17:20   and gave us huge amounts of totally verified

00:17:23   reelsie reel information.

00:17:25   Even before that, we knew almost everything

00:17:28   about this phone.

00:17:29   What it looked like, the shape,

00:17:30   the size down to the millimeter,

00:17:32   the orientation of the cameras,

00:17:33   how many cameras there would be,

00:17:34   the fact that it would be all screen,

00:17:35   the fact that the screen was OLED,

00:17:36   the fact that it would detect your face

00:17:37   and that's how you would unlock it.

00:17:39   Everything else is details.

00:17:40   I think that still for these phone products,

00:17:43   it is impossible so far for Apple

00:17:45   to actually keep anything like this secret.

00:17:47   There was a lot of BS and misinformation,

00:17:50   especially the stories and we've said this at the time we were discussing them where they're like apples considering like

00:17:55   You know using whether it's going to have face ID under there

00:17:58   It was like a month before or it was got touch idea on the screen

00:18:00   It was like a month before the the an intro announcement

00:18:03   It's like they're like displaced in time where maybe this was true a year and a half ago

00:18:08   We're just hearing about it now, but always the rumors especially on

00:18:11   A lot of the rumor sites are phrases if it's happening now and it's nonsensical like I mean, who is it?

00:18:18   Dan is his name? Dan Ricchio? I don't know how to pronounce his name. Something like that.

00:18:21   I'm pretty sure you're right on the Dan part. It's Ricchio, I think?

00:18:24   Yeah. One of Apple's people was in a press thing and he said that they had locked the design for

00:18:31   the iPhone X in November. That's November of last year, right? Not now, November 1st.

00:18:37   Not today.

00:18:38   Yeah. They had locked it a year ago, right? And yet there were rumor stories like two months ago

00:18:43   that Apple's debating what it should do with Face ID versus Touch ID under the screen. And I'm like,

00:18:47   No, what do you know they're not like I mean that so we knew those were BS at the time

00:18:52   But I still think that the combination of the rumor mill knowing so much about this phone before any leaks and then the leaks

00:18:59   Basically putting highlighter over the details that are right and sort of Xing out the ones that are wrong

00:19:04   Means that we still more or less knew what was getting introduced and I'm you know one way

00:19:10   I kind of like being surprised but also kind of like hearing details so I can go either way but

00:19:15   Just because the rumors especially motivated rumors like Oh apples having manufacturing problems Oh fear uncertainty and doubt

00:19:21   Especially since things like that

00:19:23   There's reasons for them to exist and they're gonna be wrong over in a while

00:19:26   I don't think that's that big of a deal and I think I I I don't know

00:19:31   I'm I'm not adjusting my attitude towards rumors because I

00:19:34   Don't mind as a bunch of BS noise mixed in with the real information

00:19:37   And I still think there's a ton more real information than we used to have about things because this Apple makes too many of these

00:19:43   phones, the supply chain is too leaky, and we're just going to have to accept that we're

00:19:49   more or less going to know what the next phone is going to be like, and that all we have

00:19:53   to worry about are the details, and then sometimes, like a few weeks before intro, Apple tells

00:19:57   us all the details accidentally by releasing a bunch of software.

00:20:00   No, I mean, I think, you know, we did hear a lot of rumors that ended up being true,

00:20:05   but the thing, but like, with the rumor mill, like, the challenge is always like, knowing

00:20:09   what parts of this are actually likely to be real or not.

00:20:11   And usually, during the really good days of rumor mills,

00:20:16   like two years ago, you could be sure

00:20:18   almost everything they said was actually true.

00:20:21   But until Apple's software leaks,

00:20:24   we didn't know whether the products would be

00:20:28   possibility A, B, C, or D, or many of the details of that.

00:20:31   - But we knew exactly what it would look like.

00:20:33   - Well, not really.

00:20:35   - I saved some of the images of,

00:20:37   down to the millimeter, you know,

00:20:40   when people were selling cases for it,

00:20:42   we knew what this thing would look like.

00:20:43   There were still questions like,

00:20:44   "I can't tell if it's Touch IDed into that screen,

00:20:45   can you?" Right?

00:20:46   And same with the Face ID, like that rumor was really long,

00:20:50   it took a really long time of coming,

00:20:51   but didn't really get confirmed until much later.

00:20:54   But what I'm saying is like, you know,

00:20:58   is this the next iPhone and they'd show you some 3D render?

00:21:01   Yeah, that was the next iPhone

00:21:03   and we knew it a long, long time ago.

00:21:04   Will it recognize your face?

00:21:05   That was the only credible rumor we had

00:21:07   other than various other places to put touch ID.

00:21:10   And so that was the only debate.

00:21:11   It's like, oh, surely it'll do the face thing,

00:21:13   but is it gonna have touch ID at all anymore

00:21:15   under the screen on the back?

00:21:16   Like that was a question,

00:21:17   but we knew like the face ID would be there.

00:21:20   So I feel like we had a really good picture of this phone

00:21:22   and it all turned out to be correct.

00:21:25   And the details that turned out to be wrong

00:21:27   were interesting, especially when we were discussing,

00:21:30   you know, touch ID in the back.

00:21:31   And the best one was the game of telephone rumor

00:21:34   about touch ID being on the home button.

00:21:35   Do you remember that rumor?

00:21:36   - Mm-hmm.

00:21:37   - Right, and that's explicable.

00:21:39   Now you see how it works,

00:21:40   because you have to double tap the power button

00:21:42   to make Apple Pay work,

00:21:44   and it puts that little highlight-y thing over it.

00:21:47   So somebody, like in this game of telephone,

00:21:49   knew about that, and through seven different people,

00:21:52   it becomes suddenly Touch ID and the power button,

00:21:54   which never really made any sense,

00:21:55   because it's not big enough.

00:21:56   But anyway, even things like that,

00:21:58   I love seeing after the fact,

00:21:59   oh, that's what they were confused about.

00:22:02   There was never Touch ID and the power button,

00:22:04   but somebody knew that piece of information,

00:22:06   and it got lost in translation,

00:22:09   and then all of a sudden this rumor came out of it.

00:22:10   So I think that's just par for the course of rumors.

00:22:13   - I don't know, I feel like the rumor mill was so sketchy.

00:22:17   And then around the time of the lost iPhone 4,

00:22:21   I think sources got really good.

00:22:23   And then in the last year or so,

00:22:25   like I think Marco had said,

00:22:27   sources have been not as good.

00:22:31   Because I feel like we knew,

00:22:33   even without software releases,

00:22:36   we knew exactly what this stuff would look like,

00:22:37   like to the pixel, so to speak.

00:22:39   I understand that's a terrible analogy,

00:22:40   but now if it wasn't for software releases,

00:22:43   we know the broad strokes, you're right, Jon,

00:22:45   but I don't think without the HomePod debacle,

00:22:49   we would have known as specifically as we have

00:22:52   in prior years, but I don't know.

00:22:53   - I don't think it's a broad strokes.

00:22:55   Like we didn't have,

00:22:56   if it wasn't for that phone left in a bar,

00:22:58   we wouldn't have known exactly what the iPhone 4 looked like

00:23:00   until somebody found one,

00:23:01   but we knew exactly what the iPhone 10 would look like.

00:23:04   maybe some service details we didn't know.

00:23:06   I feel like the iPhone 8, we didn't have

00:23:08   a really good grasp on service details, maybe.

00:23:10   But when you have millimeter perfect, you know,

00:23:15   measured drawings of the phone months ahead of time

00:23:18   that turn out to be 100% accurate,

00:23:19   so accurate that people could build cases based on them,

00:23:22   that is unprecedented.

00:23:23   We didn't have that for the iPhone 3GS, for the iPhone 4.

00:23:25   Like back then, you know, being left in a bar

00:23:28   was the only way we were gonna get that kind of thing, so.

00:23:30   - But there are so many, there's so much noise.

00:23:33   said John, like I feel like part of the Apple rumor game is always trying to figure out

00:23:38   like you know what what if this will actually because like everybody who you know floats

00:23:43   their head near Apple or is a is a you know friend of a nephew of a supplier or something

00:23:48   like everybody who was anywhere near Apple can leak something about what they think they

00:23:54   might be working on because they had one part made or they heard from a friend of a friend

00:23:59   of a friend who works at a factory or you know something like that there's always something

00:24:03   or even people on campus who leak,

00:24:06   people inside the company,

00:24:07   they can leak about things that they've seen

00:24:09   or heard about around campus.

00:24:11   But none of that has a strong correlation

00:24:13   to what actually gets released

00:24:15   and how things actually ship

00:24:16   and what the final version of things actually look like

00:24:18   or do or work.

00:24:19   So the challenge of the room reel has always been,

00:24:23   okay, you have all this information,

00:24:25   10% of it is true,

00:24:27   but you don't know what 10% until the event.

00:24:29   (laughs)

00:24:30   And that part has reverted back to as bad as it used to be.

00:24:34   That part was better two years ago,

00:24:38   and that part is now back to where it was 10 years ago,

00:24:42   which is basically all over the place,

00:24:43   and not that useful.

00:24:45   So that's why I'm saying,

00:24:47   it's not that we won't have seen

00:24:50   many of the details ahead of time,

00:24:51   but we won't know which of the details we've seen are true,

00:24:54   and which will ship.

00:24:56   And that's the kind of thing

00:24:57   that used to leak a lot better than it does now,

00:24:59   and that's what I'm very happy about now.

00:25:01   But again, that's also what I need to now,

00:25:04   I need to now adjust myself to,

00:25:06   by default, disbelieve rumorsites,

00:25:09   rather than by default believing them

00:25:11   the way I've been doing the last two years.

00:25:13   - Yeah, I don't know if you wanna change your defaults,

00:25:15   but maybe just make it a setting.

00:25:17   (laughing)

00:25:19   On this front, I think the iPhone X

00:25:21   was actually a tricky case too,

00:25:23   because so much was changing.

00:25:25   We knew so much was changing with the iPhone X.

00:25:27   So with so much up for grabs,

00:25:28   there's less sort of bedrock that you can say,

00:25:31   well, it's an iPhone and these two minor things change.

00:25:35   Once you get rid of all the stuff on the front

00:25:37   and make it all screen,

00:25:38   there are many possibilities with how that can go,

00:25:40   especially before the software leaks.

00:25:42   That's why it was idea of like,

00:25:43   well, what happened to Touch ID?

00:25:44   Where does it go?

00:25:45   Is it on your screen?

00:25:46   Is it on the back?

00:25:47   Is it on the power button?

00:25:48   Because more things were up for grabs.

00:25:51   If this pretend that 10 doesn't exist

00:25:53   and this is just the eight,

00:25:55   there wouldn't have been a weird rumor about Touch ID being in the power button on the

00:25:59   8, because they'd be like, well, Touch ID is where it always is. Like, look, there's

00:26:02   the phone. Like, you know, only a few things are changing. So the bigger the break from

00:26:07   the past, the more possibility is for random guesses and rumors and misheard things, because

00:26:13   just so much more seems possible, right? So you entertain it as a possibility, because,

00:26:17   you know, who knows what they'll do? And then, of course, the software leaks sort of, you

00:26:20   know, refine that all. But we'll see. Next, presumably, next phone, they will not have

00:26:25   have a catastrophic software leak like this and we'll get to play the game all the way

00:26:29   up to the end where we'll have, you know, it will be more constrained.

00:26:32   I bet there won't be such, you know, the one after the ten is not going to be as radical

00:26:36   a departure as the ten is from the seven, right?

00:26:39   And we'll have a bunch of different competing theories and we'll see how we do on them.

00:26:44   But it still seems like, you know, a couple of months before our iPhone time next year

00:26:48   we will have measured drawings of exactly what the phone will look like.

00:26:51   Maybe we won't know the exact colors and names though.

00:26:54   So get that going for us.

00:26:55   All we know is that it'll be a new shade of space gray.

00:26:58   Yeah.

00:26:59   Will they ever run out?

00:27:00   They should just line them up and see, you know, when do they have to go from like, you

00:27:04   know, 8-bit color to 16-bit color to contain all the space grays?

00:27:09   All this is to say, let me tell you about my iPhone.

00:27:12   I was just about to ask.

00:27:15   So I, the first time I ever did this, getting a phone from my wife, we both ended up waking

00:27:20   up because really when one person wakes up like look everyone's gonna be up. I was very

00:27:26   unlucky in the CDN lottery. The store did not come up for me for like 10 or 12 minutes.

00:27:34   What I eventually got through on first was actually the website. So I'm in the category

00:27:38   of one of the people where I'm furiously force quitting and relaunching the app on you know

00:27:43   on Wi-Fi and LTE did not let me get to it. I got it first on the website but because

00:27:48   my wife was also doing this on multiple devices, she was doing it on her Mac and her phone.

00:27:54   Before I went through the auto process right up to the end because I knew what she wanted

00:27:57   but before I hit the button, by that point I had walked downstairs and wanted to check

00:28:01   are you in the same process?

00:28:02   It turns out she was, she was right at the buy step as well.

00:28:05   So I didn't actually pull the trigger on my buy, she pulled the trigger on hers, two to

00:28:09   three weeks.

00:28:10   That's when my ship date is.

00:28:12   So I did not get day one.

00:28:13   I was unlucky in the unintentional CDN lottery, but two or three weeks is not that bad.

00:28:20   She was happy with it because she was also worried that it would be a really long time,

00:28:23   and she didn't want to wait a really long time because she was kind of getting sick

00:28:25   of her phone.

00:28:26   So two or three weeks is acceptable to her.

00:28:28   Oh, I forgot.

00:28:29   Yeah, she got the big one, and we did it at Verizon, and they did the thing where it's

00:28:33   like, "We're having trouble contacting your carrier," which is a vast improvement.

00:28:37   I tweeted, you know, I tweeted that it might have seemed like snark, but it wasn't, and

00:28:41   I called it progress.

00:28:42   This is progress.

00:28:43   better than it was before. It's still sad that they, you know, the carriers suck and

00:28:46   they can't make this work, but at least it doesn't stop the process. But there was, you

00:28:51   know, a good 24 hours of fretting because you go through the process and it's like,

00:28:56   "Oh, well, I could contact the carrier, but don't worry, your phone is reserved." And

00:28:59   you go to bed, you know, 3.30 thinking everything's fine, right? But then the next day you start

00:29:04   to worry as everyone else says, "Look at my order, look at my ship date, blah, blah, blah,

00:29:08   blah." And you have nothing. You just have a screen that you saw last night at 3.30 in

00:29:12   morning that said you had a phone but there's no proof that even happened right and you have an

00:29:18   email that says oh we'll contact you when it's time for you to complete your order right but then

00:29:23   you're just waiting for an email it's like so when when are you going to email me and tell me i can

00:29:26   complete my order then you start worrying they're going to email me and tell me i can complete my

00:29:29   order and that's going to count as my order time like that i didn't reserve a spot in the line at

00:29:32   3 a.m but it's really just going to be when i get the email especially since they say you'll have

00:29:35   24 hours to complete your order so there's a little bit of time pressure and it was a really

00:29:40   a long time. Like everybody else had gotten their orders and they got their dates and

00:29:44   everything. We still hadn't received the email. But finally towards the end of the day, the

00:29:47   next day, got an email, completed the order. And that's when we saw the two to three week

00:29:52   thing. So that's not the best system. It's a little bit nerve wracking. I would like

00:29:56   it if I could actually go through the process and give them the money and complete the order

00:30:00   and just say, just settle up, figure it out with Verizon later. Because obviously already

00:30:04   reserving me a spot. I don't see why I have to be involved with the time delayed retry.

00:30:09   Apple can do that on their end.

00:30:11   So that was a little bit nerve-wracking,

00:30:13   but it all came out well in the end.

00:30:15   - We are sponsored this week by Jamf Now.

00:30:19   Jamf Now helps you manage your Apple devices from anywhere.

00:30:22   Go to jamf.com/atp to create your free account today.

00:30:27   When you first start a business,

00:30:28   it's pretty easy to keep track of just your computer

00:30:31   and just your phone.

00:30:32   But as you grow, this doesn't scale very well.

00:30:35   You start to buy tech for employees,

00:30:37   and it gets harder to keep track of everybody's devices.

00:30:40   This covers Macs, iPhones, and iPads.

00:30:43   Figuring out how to, for example,

00:30:45   secure the iPad that your sales rep just lost

00:30:48   can be pretty tough,

00:30:49   especially when you're in different locations,

00:30:50   maybe you're a distributed business around the world.

00:30:53   So Jamf Now makes that and a whole lot more so much easier.

00:30:57   You can configure settings,

00:30:59   you can protect sensitive information,

00:31:00   you can even lock or wipe your devices remotely

00:31:03   from anywhere.

00:31:05   Jamf Now secures your stuff.

00:31:07   They secure your devices so you can focus

00:31:09   on your business instead.

00:31:10   And they bring all this to you with no IT expertise needed.

00:31:15   This stuff can be really complicated.

00:31:16   Jamf makes it really, really easy for you.

00:31:19   So our listeners can start securing your businesses today

00:31:22   by setting up your first three devices for free with Jamf.

00:31:25   Add more for just two bucks a month per device.

00:31:28   So see for yourself, create a free account today

00:31:31   at jamf.com/atp.

00:31:33   That's J-A-M-F dot com slash A-T-P.

00:31:37   Thank you so much to Jamf Now for sponsoring our show.

00:31:40   Jamf Now, manage your Apple devices from anywhere.

00:31:43   - So tell me about your iMac.

00:31:48   - It's back.

00:31:49   So here's what happened.

00:31:52   So the Genius Bar or Grove or Forest, whatever,

00:31:55   had it for a little less than a week.

00:31:58   In a little less than a week, they replaced the panel.

00:32:03   That's it.

00:32:04   Oh, and then the very last day,

00:32:07   somebody called me to ask if they could format

00:32:09   my hard drive, even though I told them

00:32:11   when I dropped it off, yes, I have everything backed up,

00:32:13   you can replace it or format it if you need to.

00:32:15   They said they needed to format my hard drive

00:32:18   because there was some bad data on the platters,

00:32:21   by the way, this is an SSD only iMac,

00:32:24   there was some bad data on my platters,

00:32:27   and that was causing my GPU overheating issue,

00:32:31   and that they had to reformat the hard drive

00:32:34   to get rid of the bad blocks on my platters.

00:32:37   And so I was just like, really?

00:32:41   Like, can you explain that a little bit more?

00:32:43   And every explanation I got was worse than the last one.

00:32:47   And I didn't pull like the I'm a nerd card.

00:32:50   I didn't tell them how wrong they were.

00:32:53   - Why did you bother pressing them on that?

00:32:55   Did you think there was a real explanation

00:32:58   hiding under there or did you just wanna hear them squirm

00:33:00   as they try to rephrase it another way.

00:33:02   - Well, and I was trying, 'cause I was like,

00:33:04   how can that affect the GPU?

00:33:06   Okay, I said GPU every single time I talked about this fan.

00:33:12   Every time, like look, the GPU runs too hot.

00:33:15   I monitor, I can even tell you the temperature.

00:33:16   It runs too hot, then the fan spins up.

00:33:19   Well, it's doing almost nothing, okay?

00:33:21   The GPU, and I kept, I said it when I dropped it off,

00:33:24   I said it when they were doing testing,

00:33:25   I said it everywhere.

00:33:27   every single time that they said it back to me,

00:33:31   they said, "Oh, this is why your fan's running hot."

00:33:33   I'm like, "No, no, no, no, it's more detailed than that.

00:33:36   "Trust me, I'm trying to help you figure this out."

00:33:39   Like, no, they didn't hear it.

00:33:41   So, you know, look, I had a mediocre experience, right?

00:33:44   The people were very nice, they didn't fix

00:33:46   any of my problems except for the screen.

00:33:48   Oh, and now I have a hot green pixel

00:33:49   in the middle of the screen.

00:33:51   So, you know, I'm not gonna have them touch it again.

00:33:54   This is why I don't, like, whenever people,

00:33:56   Whenever I complain about a problem with hardware I have,

00:33:59   and people are like,

00:34:00   "Why didn't you just bring it in for repair?"

00:34:01   This is why, because it doesn't usually

00:34:04   get the problems fixed.

00:34:05   And sometimes if it's easy,

00:34:07   like when I had a bad lightning port on my phone,

00:34:10   that was easy.

00:34:11   They swapped it out, done, great experience.

00:34:13   But when it's like a nuanced issue with a desktop computer,

00:34:18   I had to haul it there, go without a desktop for a week,

00:34:21   get it back, put all my data back on,

00:34:23   'cause they formatted the drive for no reason,

00:34:26   The fan still runs too fast when the GPU runs hot

00:34:28   for no apparent reason.

00:34:29   It wasn't bad data on my platters and my SSD.

00:34:33   Surprise, surprise.

00:34:34   And so, you know, I appreciate that they tried.

00:34:38   But this is why I don't do this usually.

00:34:41   - I usually take the opposite approach

00:34:42   where I feel like once the seal is broken,

00:34:44   once I've gone to and from the store once,

00:34:46   I'm going to continue to go back until,

00:34:48   as John Roddick would say, I get satisfaction.

00:34:51   That's why I brought my Thunderbolt display

00:34:52   back three times.

00:34:53   So if they replaced the screen and it came back

00:34:55   with a hot green sub pixel,

00:34:57   that would go back immediately just for the screen.

00:34:59   Because like, look, I've gone through this asshole

00:35:01   to get the screen.

00:35:02   I'm gonna keep going through it

00:35:03   until I get a perfect screen back.

00:35:04   Unless there's some policy about them not doing it,

00:35:06   but I don't know the deals, but I would try, right?

00:35:09   And my attempt to explain the erasing of the disc,

00:35:12   like maybe like the cutting the ends off the roast reason

00:35:17   behind this poor person trying to explain to you

00:35:19   why they wanna erase your hard drive.

00:35:23   I have had many times in the past problems that make the computer do weird stuff that

00:35:28   have to do with like corrupted libraries somewhere, right?

00:35:30   So like some sort of file on disk does not check some correctly.

00:35:33   It has the wrong data in it.

00:35:35   Who knows why?

00:35:36   Like HFS+ errors, you know, could actually be a hardware related failure.

00:35:40   Who knows?

00:35:41   And you say like, well, how, why would that manifest in the GPU getting hot?

00:35:46   There's enough tiny little things all over the place, loadable pieces of code and various

00:35:51   library files and stuff, that it's possible that one of them could be loaded and only

00:35:59   a certain code path hits the corrupted part and that causes it to crash and then it immediately

00:36:03   relaunches and that happens over and over and over again and that causes some subsystem

00:36:07   to work harder than it should because it's basically probabilistically constantly crashing

00:36:12   depending on when the code path that hits the corrupted part of the library is hit.

00:36:17   And you don't see that except maybe in a console line somewhere if you're lucky and that would

00:36:21   cause temperature to go up, so that's my most charitable interpretation of why there might

00:36:24   be a legit reason for them to erase your disk.

00:36:27   Although that's why a lot of people say "I did a combo updater and it fixed everything!"

00:36:31   Like just reinstalling the OS often fixes it too because it'll replace that library

00:36:34   with the correct version of it again.

00:36:36   Stuff like that has happened.

00:36:38   It probably doesn't explain a temperature specific thing, I would expect to see more

00:36:41   crashes or whatever, but I'll bet that issues like that are one of the reasons why they

00:36:46   routinely want to erase your drive, just to reduce the number of variables essentially.

00:36:50   They should have just said, "We don't know, but we're out of ideas, and this is always

00:36:54   the last thing we try, and sometimes it fixes it, so it's worthwhile."

00:36:58   And so they did it.

00:36:59   Okay, so we had somebody write in who is an anonymous AppleCare advisor, and they said

00:37:05   that they were servicing a 2017 MacBook Pro 13-inch for a spacebar that stopped functioning.

00:37:13   AppleCare had determined that the issue was related to accidental damage and therefore

00:37:16   was not covered under warranty.

00:37:18   held their MacBook Pro for a re-quote price of $475.

00:37:24   Holy smokes.

00:37:26   Although the customer disputes prying the key off in an effort to fix the issue herself,

00:37:29   I don't doubt that she probably did.

00:37:31   The point is, our customers would have no reason to try and perform surgery on their

00:37:34   brand new laptops with their car keys if the keyboards worked reliably in the first place.

00:37:39   $500 to fix this keyboard?

00:37:42   That is bananas.

00:37:43   I thought this was a good story because it shows just how things can go wrong.

00:37:48   Thus far we've been talking about it like, "Oh, we don't really know what the reliability

00:37:51   issue is, but these things are all still under warranty and eventually they won't be and

00:37:53   it will be worse."

00:37:54   But this is, you know, this is an example of good Apple customer service in the end,

00:37:59   but sort of a trap for customers.

00:38:02   Like if this happens to you, you get a new laptop and the space bar stops working and

00:38:07   you decide to try to pry the keycap off.

00:38:09   Now maybe you're just frustrated, maybe you're impatient, maybe you don't want to bother

00:38:12   taking the store, maybe you've pried the keycaps off past Apple laptops and have fixed

00:38:16   it yourself by blowing stuff out or whatever. But either way, if you do this and when you

00:38:23   do it with these new keyboards, there's no way to get it back on successfully. You're

00:38:28   doomed to prying off the keycaps is not a thing you should do. It's not even a thing

00:38:31   that Apple repair centers do. That's why they have to replace the whole top of your computer,

00:38:36   right? If you do that and then bring it into the Apple Store, they're going to say, "Well,

00:38:41   I see that your problem, you pry it off your space bar.

00:38:44   And that's not covered under warranty

00:38:46   because you essentially damaged your own computer.

00:38:49   And if you say, no, no, no, I've only pried it off

00:38:51   because before the space bar wasn't working,

00:38:54   by the letter of the Apple Care laws,

00:38:57   like no, if you pry the key,

00:39:00   if you try to repair your own computer and mess it up,

00:39:02   we don't pay for that.

00:39:04   Now, the reason this is good Apple customer service

00:39:07   is that the person involved was able to make an exception

00:39:10   and override the repair center or whatever.

00:39:12   The genius understands.

00:39:14   The only reason you pry this off is because it was broken.

00:39:15   I don't think you're sitting around deciding

00:39:16   to pry off your key caps for the hell of it, right?

00:39:19   And so they did the right thing

00:39:21   and are letting this get repaired under warranty,

00:39:22   but when the warranty runs out,

00:39:24   like we just go wait for the first person

00:39:26   to have a stuck key at exactly the time

00:39:30   that warranty runs out and realize stuck key equals $475.

00:39:34   And that's gonna be a very, very sad person.

00:39:37   A person who will probably start considering

00:39:39   how convenient it might be to use their laptop without ever touching the keyboard on it.

00:39:42   Maybe they're in the market for a new Mac Mini.

00:39:45   [laughter]

00:39:46   If only.

00:39:47   I don't remember which show it was I heard this on, but did you hear that repairing the

00:39:53   back glass on an iPhone X is something like $500?

00:39:56   Yeah, it's like a full replacement cost, basically.

00:40:00   So yeah, it's like over $500.

00:40:03   And notice, AppleCare costs $200 now on the iPhone X.

00:40:06   - I forgot to ask, did you guys all get AppleCare?

00:40:10   - I did not.

00:40:11   - Oh, living dangerously.

00:40:13   - I buy it for Tiff's because she wants the peace of mind

00:40:17   of knowing, and she does drop her phone occasionally.

00:40:19   We do have cases, we have yet to break one,

00:40:21   but still for hers we wanted to buy it

00:40:24   because that makes me feel better.

00:40:26   For mine, I never have.

00:40:29   And my policy has been, you know,

00:40:31   'cause now AppleCare is like,

00:40:33   I think it's like 130 or 140-ish for the regular iPhone 8s,

00:40:38   and then for the iPhone 10, it's 200.

00:40:40   My thinking here is the first time

00:40:43   I have to have a very expensive repair,

00:40:46   I will reconsider my policy of having not spent $200

00:40:49   every year up until that point.

00:40:50   But until that happens, and unless that happens,

00:40:54   I'm gonna keep not spending $200 to protect the phone

00:40:56   that I don't necessarily need to be protected,

00:40:58   and we'll let it ride from there.

00:41:01   I'm the kind of person who I don't really drop my stuff.

00:41:03   I've never dropped gadgets before.

00:41:05   I think I've dropped a phone,

00:41:08   in the total of time that I've had iPhones,

00:41:11   the entire last 10 years,

00:41:13   I think I've dropped it maybe twice.

00:41:16   And neither time it was significantly damaged.

00:41:19   So I hope I don't need it, and if I start needing it,

00:41:22   then I'll eat that first repair as a life lesson

00:41:25   and I'll start getting it then.

00:41:26   Until that happens, I'm saving 200 bucks a year.

00:41:29   I did get AppleCare+ on my iPhone 7, and if you recall, I dropped it when I was running

00:41:36   with it because I'm an idiot, and that was my first iPhone casualty.

00:41:41   I have also developed a deep scratch in the screen.

00:41:43   Since that happened, I have no earthly idea how.

00:41:46   So the good news is if I get this repaired a second time, the AppleCare will have paid

00:41:50   for itself.

00:41:51   But this is the first phone I've run in a long time without a case, and $200 on top

00:41:56   of $1200 or whatever I paid is a lot of money. So I have a leather case that will be a few

00:42:02   days late behind my phone because I just ordered it today, and I think I'm going to go back

00:42:07   to having a leather case and hopefully not destroying my phone.

00:42:11   We are sponsored this week by Casper. Start sleeping ahead of the curve with Casper. Get

00:42:15   $50 towards any mattress purchase by visiting casper.com/ATP and using code ATP at checkout.

00:42:21   Terms and conditions do apply.

00:42:23   Casper is a sleep brand that continues

00:42:25   to revolutionize its line of products

00:42:27   to create an exceptionally comfortable sleep experience

00:42:30   one night at a time.

00:42:32   Casper's mattresses are perfectly designed for humans.

00:42:35   They are engineered to soothe and cradle

00:42:37   humans' natural geometry,

00:42:39   because you spend a third of your life sleeping,

00:42:41   so Casper thinks you should be comfortable.

00:42:43   Seems reasonable to me.

00:42:45   And Casper mattresses are engineered

00:42:46   to provide all the support the human body needs

00:42:49   in all the right places.

00:42:51   These Casper mattresses are designed, developed,

00:42:53   and assembled right here in the US

00:42:56   with a breathable design that helps you sleep,

00:42:58   cool, and regulate your temperature throughout the night

00:43:00   so you don't get too hot or too stuffy.

00:43:02   And the Casper mattresses combine

00:43:03   multiple supportive memory foams

00:43:06   for a quality sleep surface with just the right sink

00:43:08   and just the right bounce.

00:43:10   With over 20,000 reviews and an average of 4.8 stars

00:43:14   across Casper site, Amazon, and Google,

00:43:16   Casper is becoming the internet's favorite mattress.

00:43:19   They now offer three mattress models,

00:43:21   the original Casper, the Wave, and the Essential.

00:43:24   I am finally sleeping on a Casper after way too long

00:43:26   of not sleeping on one, and it's great.

00:43:28   I really enjoy it.

00:43:30   Casper is also not just a mattress company.

00:43:31   They offer a wide array of products

00:43:33   to ensure overall better sleep experience,

00:43:35   things like pillows, sheets, and more.

00:43:37   So start sleeping ahead of the curve with Casper.

00:43:39   Get $50 towards any mattress purchase

00:43:41   by visiting casper.com/atp with using code ATP at checkout.

00:43:46   That's casper.com/atp and code ATP for $50

00:43:50   towards any mattress.

00:43:51   Terms and conditions apply.

00:43:52   Thank you so much to Casper for sponsoring our show.

00:43:55   (upbeat music)

00:43:58   - John, it is all coming up Milhouse

00:44:00   with regard to the Apple TV.

00:44:02   Tell us about this.

00:44:03   - Yeah, so a bunch of essentially announcements from Apple

00:44:08   because they have videos, this strange sort of out of time,

00:44:11   not at WWDC, but very much like WWDC videos

00:44:14   explaining some of the new APIs in tvOS 11.2 which is not yet released but presumably will

00:44:21   be in beta soon.

00:44:22   So the very first thing I did was went out to my Apple TV and turned on beta software

00:44:27   updates which is a thing that you can do if you sign up for the beta program you get a

00:44:30   menu thing that says in the software update thing do you want to also consider beta updates?

00:44:34   I said yes and I said please update me and it did an update but then when I rebooted

00:44:39   I was still on 11.1 and now every time I check for an update it says I have the latest version

00:44:43   So I do not have 11.2.

00:44:45   I don't know if anybody has it.

00:44:46   Maybe that beta's not out yet.

00:44:48   But anyway, why do I want 11.2?

00:44:50   Well, a couple of reasons.

00:44:51   First, there is a new API called A/V Display Manager.

00:44:55   Actually, I don't even know if it's a new API.

00:44:57   Unfortunately, I have not had time to watch this video.

00:45:00   But there's new APIs that allow you as an app developer

00:45:04   to switch video display modes.

00:45:08   Confusingly, there's a second set of screenshots

00:45:11   showing what the tvOS thing will look like, where there are options now to say automatically

00:45:18   match the frame rate of the source video and automatically match the HDR-ness of the source

00:45:23   video, and you can turn them both on.

00:45:26   And for a little while I was confused, well, which is it?

00:45:30   Is it that application developers have to update their apps to switch modes, or is it

00:45:34   that Apple TV will simply detect the frame rate and quality of the video that's displaying

00:45:40   in Apple TV will switch modes.

00:45:41   As far as I can tell, it is you need both for this to happen.

00:45:45   Developers need to update their apps to use a new API.

00:45:48   And the new API won't actually switch your mode

00:45:50   unless the preference is set in your Apple TV to say,

00:45:53   hey, if an application says that it wants to change the mode

00:45:56   to 24 frames per second or whatever,

00:45:58   or some multiple of that, allow it to do it.

00:46:01   Again, I haven't actually installed this beta

00:46:03   because they won't send it to me, so I'm not entirely sure.

00:46:05   So I'm just going off several articles on this topic.

00:46:07   We'll put a link in the show notes

00:46:08   the Ars Technica one, which I think just summarizes the information that's provided.

00:46:12   But anyway, this is all good news. The good news is you will not have to go to that menu

00:46:17   and pick from umpteen different formats every time you're going to play a video, which of

00:46:21   course you know the exact frame rate for. And it's also good news for people with HDR

00:46:25   TVs because previously apparently it was, if you turned HDR on and played some non-HDR

00:46:29   video, it would try to display it in HDR and make it look all gross, which is just terrible.

00:46:33   I didn't know that because I don't have an HDR TV. My only fear now is that these

00:46:38   These features will come and they will be 4K only.

00:46:41   Not Apple TV 4K only but will only be available if you have a 4K television.

00:46:46   Because right now I can't tell the Apple TV to output at some multiple 24Hz to my television

00:46:53   because I have a standard, not a standard television, a non-4K television and I don't

00:46:58   have a 24Hz option or any multiple thereof.

00:47:01   Which is a shame if you have a 4K TV you do.

00:47:03   I'm hoping all this mode switching and everything is not confined to 4K like these other settings

00:47:09   are.

00:47:10   So we'll see, but I'm excited about it.

00:47:11   Things are going in the right direction.

00:47:12   All right, let's ask ATP.

00:47:15   Drew wants to know, "What do you recommend for antivirus on High Sierra?

00:47:18   Don't run it, don't know."

00:47:19   Yeah, I had someone ask me this at work too, and the reason I put this question in there

00:47:23   is that this is a surprisingly common question, especially for new Mac users.

00:47:26   What should I get for antivirus?

00:47:28   My answer to all these people is, "Do not install antivirus software on your Mac."

00:47:32   Maybe that sounds terrible and maybe people think I'm an old fogy and really in this modern

00:47:36   day and age you need antivirus software and blah blah blah, but from my experience over

00:47:40   many many years being forced to run many different kinds of antivirus software at work, I hate

00:47:46   all of them and all of them made my Mac worse.

00:47:48   And at home I have never ever ever ever run antivirus software on my Macs and as far as

00:47:55   I'm aware I have never had any problems with viruses.

00:47:58   So my recommendation is do not run antivirus software

00:48:02   on your Mac, it's all bad.

00:48:03   - Marco, any other thoughts?

00:48:06   - I think exactly what John says,

00:48:07   minus the work experience part.

00:48:09   I mean, at this point, I would say that antivirus software

00:48:14   on your Mac, I think, probably is a bigger threat

00:48:18   of itself being malware than any malware

00:48:21   that you would find.

00:48:22   - And even when it's working correctly,

00:48:23   not that it's malware, but it messes with your computer.

00:48:26   It makes it slow, it makes it annoying,

00:48:28   makes things not work that were supposed to work,

00:48:30   the headaches you will get

00:48:32   from the antivirus software itself

00:48:34   far outweigh the supposed protection.

00:48:36   And honestly, it's not gonna protect you anyway.

00:48:38   Like, I mean, the real question is like,

00:48:39   just find a long time Mac user,

00:48:41   maybe not me, like, you know, 1984 Mac user, but you know.

00:48:44   - Humble brat.

00:48:45   - Right, well, I'm just saying like,

00:48:47   find someone who's been using your Mac for years

00:48:48   and ask them, what do you run for antivirus?

00:48:50   Like, can you find a Mac user who has not run antivirus

00:48:55   and has been, you know, overrun by viruses?

00:48:57   Like Marco and Casey, have you ever run antivirus software

00:49:00   on your Mac?

00:49:01   - My work computer, but that's because it's compulsory,

00:49:03   not because I choose it.

00:49:04   - Yeah, but I mean your home one.

00:49:06   - Nope.

00:49:07   - Even when I had a work computer, I didn't.

00:49:09   - Have you ever had any problem with viruses?

00:49:13   - Not only have I never had a problem with a Mac virus,

00:49:15   I've never even heard of anybody else having a problem

00:49:18   with one ever.

00:49:19   - Same.

00:49:20   - Yeah, I mean more likely it's gonna be

00:49:22   social engineering and getting you to click on some button

00:49:24   you're not supposed to,

00:49:26   And not to say there aren't vulnerabilities.

00:49:27   Macs are totally vulnerable to malware and viruses, 100%, and humans are completely vulnerable

00:49:32   to social engineering and things that trick you into clicking something you're not supposed

00:49:36   to do, right?

00:49:37   But the question wasn't like, "Are Macs vulnerable to viruses?"

00:49:40   They are.

00:49:41   The question was, "Should I install antivirus software?"

00:49:43   And the answer to that is no, because that software is bad and makes your Mac worse.

00:49:47   And remember that Apple does have very rudimentary anti-malware stuff that you're getting whether

00:49:53   you know it or not.

00:49:54   push updates to it when they identify new malware.

00:49:56   It's not gonna save you from everything,

00:49:58   but it's not as if you're completely unprotected.

00:50:00   - So this next one was an email submission,

00:50:03   and I thought it was really interesting.

00:50:05   Charlie Elman writes, "If iOS and macOS were available

00:50:09   "to install and integrate with any hardware,

00:50:11   "would you still use an iPhone and a Mac?"

00:50:13   And he continues, "For this thought experiment,

00:50:15   "assume that it works well on all devices,

00:50:18   "none of the Windows driver crap,

00:50:20   "software updates would happen just as regularly,

00:50:22   none of the Android fragmentation crap.

00:50:25   You could use any of the new hardware on other devices

00:50:28   without issue, NFC, Microsoft Pen and Dial,

00:50:30   Google Pixel Squeeze, et cetera.

00:50:33   And the prices don't change,

00:50:34   meaning the Galaxy S8 wouldn't cost as much as an iPhone,

00:50:37   the Surface Book wouldn't cost as much

00:50:38   as a Touch Bar MacBook, et cetera.

00:50:40   I have thought about this for several days now,

00:50:44   'cause I was the one who added this to the show notes.

00:50:47   And I don't think I have any really strong answers,

00:50:50   because I really, really do think, for me,

00:50:55   that the best hardware out there is Apple hardware.

00:50:58   I would probably at least flirt with a ThinkPad,

00:51:03   especially that retro one that just came out.

00:51:06   I know Jon is getting really sick to his stomach

00:51:09   hearing me talk about this,

00:51:10   but man, I think that looks good.

00:51:12   But anyway, I don't think I've ever seen a phone

00:51:15   that I've longed for,

00:51:18   And I don't really ever see computers that I'm terribly enthusiastic about outside of

00:51:24   what comes from Apple.

00:51:25   And I don't know if it's Stockholm Syndrome at this point or what, but other than maybe

00:51:31   a ThinkPad, I don't think there's anything.

00:51:33   But what about you, Jon?

00:51:36   I would definitely use non-Apple hardware because I would get basically the modern equivalent

00:51:42   of my 2008 Mac Pro.

00:51:43   I'd get a big computer with room for lots of stuff inside, including a really big gaming

00:51:47   video card.

00:51:48   Apple doesn't sell anything like that.

00:51:49   So I would have gotten that long ago.

00:51:51   Like that's what I'm waiting around for is that, you know, a Mac Pro that I want to buy.

00:51:54   If I could get third party hardware and run macOS and not have to deal with any of the,

00:51:58   you know, Hackintosh stuff or whatever.

00:52:00   Yes, I definitely would.

00:52:02   For phones, I also have never seen a phone that has made me think I would rather have

00:52:09   that hardware than my iPhone hardware.

00:52:11   Even if it's down to something like mini USB versus lighting, that was no contest.

00:52:16   USB-C versus Lightning, I think I still kind of prefer Lightning.

00:52:19   So I don't think there's any phone hardware that would tempt me, especially now that we

00:52:24   have like the six and seven size phone, and we'll see what I think of the ten when it

00:52:29   gets here.

00:52:31   But for my desktop Mac computer, in the absence of a Mac Pro that suits my needs, I would

00:52:37   definitely be running third-party hardware.

00:52:39   >> Markov?

00:52:40   >> I have never seen another phone that I actually thought like, I would like to see

00:52:46   stop using my iPhone and go use that please.

00:52:49   It has never come close.

00:52:50   I was very impressed when I saw the,

00:52:52   what is it, the Samsung, the S8?

00:52:55   The one that, not the Note, but the one that came out

00:52:58   like six months ago that was edge to edge-ish,

00:53:01   like that one, I was very impressed when I saw that.

00:53:03   But it wasn't so compelling that I like,

00:53:06   I wanna lose everything I know about the hardware.

00:53:08   Now this is a great question in the sense that

00:53:09   it assumes that we can still use the software that we like,

00:53:12   you know, all the Apple software.

00:53:14   'Cause that really is, that's what matters more.

00:53:18   Ultimately, I would take Apple hardware

00:53:22   that makes me miserable before I would leave Mac OS

00:53:26   and iOS for the alternatives.

00:53:28   So it's a good question.

00:53:31   For the phones, yeah, no way.

00:53:32   For tablets, no.

00:53:35   For laptops, maybe.

00:53:38   I think I might consider using PC laptops, especially--

00:53:41   - Oh, you absolutely would.

00:53:43   After all this kvetching about the keyboard,

00:53:45   you absolutely would go to a different laptop.

00:53:48   - Oh, PC laptops are kinda ugly though.

00:53:50   - Well, I don't care about the look so much

00:53:52   as the functionality for me.

00:53:54   So anyway, I'm very happy right now

00:53:56   with just having an older Apple laptop.

00:53:59   In the future, when that plan becomes untenable,

00:54:02   I hope their modern ones at that point,

00:54:05   again, are better for me.

00:54:07   Then I'll just switch to the modern ones.

00:54:08   Or even if they're not better,

00:54:10   maybe I'll just wanna suck it up and deal with it

00:54:12   so I don't have to mess with Hackintoshes

00:54:14   or old laptops or anything else.

00:54:17   But if I could run Mac OS perfectly well

00:54:20   on something better from the PC world,

00:54:23   or at least better for my preferences,

00:54:25   sure I would consider that.

00:54:29   There isn't a lot out there

00:54:30   that's honestly that much better.

00:54:32   It's very similar to when I mentioned a couple episodes ago

00:54:35   how reviewers always positively review

00:54:38   whenever there's a new Surface book

00:54:40   or whenever there's like a new Google phone,

00:54:44   a new Nexus or Pixel phone,

00:54:46   the reviews are always really positive

00:54:48   and then the reviewers don't end up using them.

00:54:49   They're like, "Oh, this is a great phone for somebody else,"

00:54:52   and then they switch back to their iPhone

00:54:54   and their MacBook the next day.

00:54:56   With a lot of this alternative stuff,

00:54:59   it's hard to get good quality long-term reviews,

00:55:02   and oftentimes the long-term reviews

00:55:04   are a lot less positive than the initial ones were.

00:55:07   So it's hard to really know,

00:55:08   As somebody who admittedly does not try

00:55:12   non-Apple hardware almost ever,

00:55:14   it's hard for me to really know how good the stuff is.

00:55:17   But certainly I would have an open mind to it.

00:55:20   And on the desktop, similar to John,

00:55:23   right now Apple doesn't make what I need.

00:55:25   They said they're going to, so I hope they do.

00:55:30   Unlike John, I don't need my Mac Pro or my Mac desktop,

00:55:33   I don't need it to be a standard tower

00:55:37   with a whole bunch of card slots for gaming cards

00:55:40   or drive bays or anything else.

00:55:41   I don't actually need that.

00:55:43   The Trashcan Mac Pro would've been great for me

00:55:47   if they just updated it.

00:55:48   That would've been great.

00:55:50   They didn't, which is unfortunate,

00:55:52   but if they could just deliver me that

00:55:56   with not the overheating GPUs issue maybe,

00:56:00   deliver me that with modern internals

00:56:02   that can drive a 5K display,

00:56:04   and that would be great, I would love that.

00:56:06   Not a lot of other people would, but I would.

00:56:07   So I'd be totally fine with that.

00:56:08   But in the meantime, they don't have that.

00:56:10   And I don't know when their new Mac Pro is coming.

00:56:13   I assume that it's hopefully next year,

00:56:17   hopefully in the earlier part of the year,

00:56:19   but I really have no idea.

00:56:21   So desktops, I would use non-Apple hardware

00:56:25   'cause I feel like that's where it would matter the least

00:56:27   that I was using non-Apple hardware.

00:56:28   Like you're not touching it really.

00:56:30   You can use someone else's screen and it's not that bad.

00:56:34   You know, it wouldn't be that big of a deal

00:56:36   to use someone else's desktop.

00:56:37   Especially if you build a tower, it's under your desk,

00:56:39   you barely even see it.

00:56:41   But yeah, it's a cool question.

00:56:43   I like having, I like thinking about this.

00:56:46   It kind of prompts you to look around the PC

00:56:49   and Android worlds to see what the alternatives even are,

00:56:53   but ultimately I don't find a lot of them very compelling.

00:56:57   It would be kind of interesting

00:56:58   to build my own computer again.

00:56:59   I used to do that.

00:57:00   You know, I used to build my own PC,

00:57:02   and I really enjoyed that hobby.

00:57:03   That was a really fun hobby.

00:57:04   - Yeah, yeah, I agree.

00:57:06   - It would be kind of interesting to see

00:57:07   what that's like now from the little glances

00:57:11   I've seen here and there from people posting about it

00:57:13   and stuff, it doesn't seem like it's that different.

00:57:15   It seems like most of it is actually about the same.

00:57:17   Just like now there's been like five new versions

00:57:20   of ATX since then, but it's still fairly similar.

00:57:25   You know, now I think everybody water cools now.

00:57:29   Back then it was much more of a specialized thing

00:57:32   that most people didn't do.

00:57:34   Now water cooling is much more common

00:57:35   and there's a lot more blue LEDs,

00:57:37   which I would not consider a feature.

00:57:39   So it would be kind of fun to build computers again,

00:57:44   but ultimately, if Apple gives me a really nice Mac Pro,

00:57:49   I'll be pretty happy with that.

00:57:50   - I forgot to address laptops because I don't like laptops,

00:57:53   but if forced to pick a laptop,

00:57:54   would you stick with the Apple one?

00:57:57   I'm in a bind because I think all the laptops,

00:58:00   except for the Microsoft ones,

00:58:01   I find them less pleasing looking than the Apple ones and you know that makes a difference

00:58:07   to me.

00:58:08   And it's not like you can build your own laptop like you can with desktop, right?

00:58:11   So you don't have as many options there.

00:58:13   But all I've heard about the Microsoft laptops and their you know transformable tablets and

00:58:18   stuff like that is that they have all sorts of weird reliability problems and durability

00:58:21   problems with the fabric and everything.

00:58:23   Like that line of computers is the most appealing to me but I would be wary of actually buying

00:58:28   one for myself because of all the reliability problems I've heard for the service book.

00:58:32   So you know, unlike Casey, I don't have a thing for the ThinkPad, so I just don't think

00:58:37   there's a lot of laptop hardware out there. Although, if pressed, if I was forced, I would

00:58:42   probably still just grin and bear it and get an ugly PC thing just so I could have ports

00:58:46   and battery life and all the things that we've complained about a million times.

00:58:50   I will say, there was a really nice segment on Back to Work about, I think it was last

00:58:55   week's episode. Microsoft reps offered to send Dan Benjamin a Surface Book, honestly

00:59:03   I don't know, I can't tell you which model, some kind of Surface Book to just try out,

00:59:07   something that could be a tablet and a laptop. Can they all do that? I don't know. Whatever.

00:59:12   Anyway, they sent him one to try out and he talked about it on the show and the discussion

00:59:15   was very, very good. You know, Dan is somebody who is mostly an Apple person, but he has

00:59:22   recent PC experience also.

00:59:25   And so to hear his impressions of the service book

00:59:27   were very good, and overall, to spoil it,

00:59:30   overall his impressions of it were pretty positive.

00:59:32   So it's worth hearing that to know,

00:59:35   to have kind of a glimpse into the other side

00:59:37   of what it's like when a mostly Apple person

00:59:40   talks a lot about a modern, nice Windows laptop.

00:59:45   And especially hearing about what it's like

00:59:48   to have crossovers between tablet mode

00:59:52   and being able to have a pen or touch input

00:59:56   in a desktop OS.

00:59:57   Dan came out of that basically saying,

01:00:01   Apple should have something like this for Mac OS.

01:00:04   And if you're a really big fan of the iPad,

01:00:06   you probably shouldn't listen to this episode.

01:00:08   (laughs)

01:00:09   But I think there's a lot to consider there

01:00:13   that they bring up, so that's worth listening

01:00:14   if you're interested in this kind of stuff.

01:00:16   - Finally, Tim Walker wants to know,

01:00:19   any thoughts about Apple firing an engineer

01:00:20   after his daughter posted a hands-on video

01:00:22   of the iPhone 10 on YouTube.

01:00:24   So the chief summarizer and chief hat is on.

01:00:27   Basically what happened was,

01:00:29   and I think it was a little while ago,

01:00:31   but certainly after the announcement,

01:00:34   an Apple employee who we have later found out

01:00:37   worked somewhere in the RF team, I guess,

01:00:39   the radio frequency team,

01:00:41   had his daughter into Cafe Max,

01:00:43   and she was filming a vlog,

01:00:45   and she also was handed his phone,

01:00:49   he handed her his phone, which was an iPhone 10, again, post-announcement, but pre-, you

01:00:56   know, before everyone had them. And she was flipping through the home screen, and I haven't,

01:01:01   you know, done the Kremlinology on this, but apparently, wow, that's kind of a loaded term

01:01:05   now, isn't it? I haven't done the Zapruder film or however you pronounce it on this.

01:01:09   But anyways, I guess there were some apps that you wouldn't expect to see. Somebody

01:01:14   said something about a QR code that you wouldn't expect to see. So there was some unreleased

01:01:19   stuff on this phone for sure. Well, this video somehow or another got popular, and I say

01:01:26   that only because the young woman who had filmed it and put it on YouTube had said,

01:01:32   you know, I have, in so many words, I have no followers, I don't know how this became

01:01:35   popular etc. etc. But somehow or another did. And they have since fired her dad, they fired

01:01:41   this engineer. And, you know, Tim Walker wants to know, how do we feel about that? And my

01:01:45   initial reaction was, "Man, that's kind of crappy," because the thing was already announced.

01:01:54   Everyone knew what it was. Like, what's the big deal? But then I found out, well, there

01:02:00   was some unreleased software on there, and maybe this QR code thing, and I guess there

01:02:05   may have been a code name or two showing on the screen at one point or another. And that

01:02:11   That made me less confident that Apple was being a bunch of jerks.

01:02:15   And then I was reminded of when, Marco, you and I went to Apple last year in 2016.

01:02:22   And we went to IL-1 or 1IL, I always get it backwards.

01:02:25   We went to the main building, and then we went to the theater that they would occasionally

01:02:30   do product announcements in.

01:02:31   And there's a Steve Jobs quote outside the theater, and I think both of us, or certainly

01:02:37   I, took a picture of it, put it on like Instagram or something like that.

01:02:40   And one of our mutual friends who works at Apple actually privately wrote me and was

01:02:44   like, "Who is letting you take a picture on campus?

01:02:47   That's BS."

01:02:48   And the picture was of a Steve Jobs quote.

01:02:51   Like, and he was genuinely, like, perturbed that this picture was taken, much less posted

01:02:55   anywhere.

01:02:56   He was perturbed that my escort had allowed me to do that, which I think is kind of freaking

01:03:02   ridiculous.

01:03:03   I tell this story to tell, to just emphasize how deep this lies within Apple employees.

01:03:11   And so, in the end of the day, I think, you know what, the dude knew the rules.

01:03:17   Like, she shouldn't have been filming in the first place and definitely should not have seen pre-release software.

01:03:23   If it was just that he handed her the phone and it was off, meh.

01:03:27   I don't see that as that big a deal.

01:03:28   But since apparently there was some unreleased stuff

01:03:33   on that device, that changes my tune quite heavily.

01:03:36   Marco, how do you feel?

01:03:38   - I come down a little harder than you, but nearby.

01:03:41   Basically.

01:03:42   (laughing)

01:03:44   None of us have ever worked at Apple.

01:03:46   And this is internal hiring policy stuff.

01:03:49   And it's hard to say what should or shouldn't happen

01:03:55   based on what we know from the outside of the situation

01:03:57   because we obviously don't know everything

01:03:59   'cause we don't work there, we don't know this person,

01:04:01   we don't know everything that was inadvertently revealed

01:04:04   in that video or could have been revealed

01:04:05   or what the policies exactly are written.

01:04:08   Apple's not that keen on sharing things like that

01:04:10   with the public, so.

01:04:11   But I can say that when we were there,

01:04:16   like the last thing I would have ever thought to do

01:04:20   was shoot a vlog.

01:04:21   (laughing)

01:04:24   I can't even imagine, to me that just shows

01:04:27   a severe lapse in judgment.

01:04:29   And not of the woman who was vlogging,

01:04:33   I mean she wasn't the employee.

01:04:35   Her father who was permitting her to do this

01:04:36   and bringing her into campus knowing she was doing this,

01:04:40   he's the one who has the poor judgment here.

01:04:43   Whether it's against the rules as they're written or not,

01:04:47   I don't know, I don't know what the rules are.

01:04:49   I would never assume that would be okay.

01:04:52   and I don't think anybody should be surprised

01:04:56   that he lost his job as a result.

01:04:58   To let somebody in, and you said that maybe

01:05:01   it wouldn't matter if the phone was off.

01:05:03   No, I'll go even further.

01:05:05   The phone was not out yet,

01:05:06   and the press embargo wasn't even lifted.

01:05:08   Like, reviews hadn't even been permitted yet.

01:05:11   To bring someone into campus as an employee,

01:05:15   and to permit them to shoot video of your running phone

01:05:19   of this non-publicly available phone,

01:05:22   I think that's common sense that that would be a problem.

01:05:24   - Yeah, yeah.

01:05:25   - And that's not even considering

01:05:27   that it was allegedly running internal software,

01:05:31   which is another problem.

01:05:32   But even if it wasn't running internal software,

01:05:34   I think allowing someone to shoot a video,

01:05:37   first of all, to shoot a video inside campus at all

01:05:39   and publish it, like, you know,

01:05:42   I had lunch at Cafe Max, it was amazing.

01:05:44   The last thing I would have thought to do

01:05:45   was shoot a video and post it. (laughs)

01:05:49   Like, even though we weren't, as far as I know,

01:05:51   we weren't seeing anything secret, you know?

01:05:52   But like, still, it's like this is like the interior

01:05:55   of the campus, like, it felt incredibly privileged

01:05:59   to be there at all, and I didn't want to get myself

01:06:04   or our hosts in trouble, so the last thing

01:06:06   I would have thought to do would be to shoot

01:06:08   any kind of video or like take pictures of people

01:06:11   in the cafe or anything like that.

01:06:13   You know, I too took a picture of the quote on the wall

01:06:16   in that one room, and because it was a press area,

01:06:19   I decided this is probably safe to post to Instagram,

01:06:22   and I did, but that was the only thing

01:06:25   that I took a picture of there.

01:06:27   Like, that's the only memory that I have a record of

01:06:30   of that trip because I was too afraid

01:06:32   to take my phone out for any other reason.

01:06:34   And I didn't want, again,

01:06:35   I didn't want to get anybody in trouble,

01:06:36   and I assumed that it would get people in trouble

01:06:40   if any of us took photos and posted them online.

01:06:43   So yeah, so this should have been common sense,

01:06:47   and I think to most Apple employees,

01:06:49   it is common sense.

01:06:50   And so if somebody didn't see that as common sense

01:06:54   or had a bad lapse in judgment

01:06:56   and lost their job as a result,

01:06:57   I honestly don't think that's that much of a story.

01:07:00   - Yeah, I don't think these people need to use common sense

01:07:02   because every employee gets training

01:07:04   with regard to what, with secrets and stuff, right?

01:07:06   It's not like Apple just allows this to happen

01:07:09   through osmosis and culture.

01:07:10   You get told when you're hired by Apple,

01:07:13   here's what you can and can't do,

01:07:15   and all sorts of guidelines on how to be safe

01:07:17   and blah, blah, blah.

01:07:18   And this is clearly a thing that you're not supposed to do.

01:07:21   And this person did it.

01:07:22   And then not only-- and sometimes it's like, well,

01:07:25   is it a zero tolerance policy, one strike and you're out?

01:07:27   Like, isn't there, you know, OK, you made a mistake,

01:07:30   but maybe you're a new employee and don't know?

01:07:33   I'm not sure what their policy with that is.

01:07:35   But in this particular situation,

01:07:39   whether it was the first time or not,

01:07:41   it was not the type of thing where it's like, all right,

01:07:44   well, you took someone on a tour and you let them take a picture.

01:07:46   then you have them deleted off their phone,

01:07:49   or you let them take a picture,

01:07:50   but then it never left their phone again.

01:07:52   Like there was a violation of the rules,

01:07:53   and technically we could fire you according to,

01:07:56   whatever thing you signed in your employment agreement,

01:07:58   or whatever, but we won't

01:07:59   because the consequences weren't that bad.

01:08:00   But in this case, the consequences were about as bad

01:08:02   as they could possibly be,

01:08:03   and that the entire world saw this video

01:08:06   before they were supposed to see it,

01:08:08   revealing essentially that, yes, you broke the rules,

01:08:11   and now everybody knows you broke the rules.

01:08:13   And if Apple was to allow this to happen,

01:08:15   basically saying, "Our PR doesn't need to actually control the message for new

01:08:21   product introductions. Actually random employees in our cafeteria can also

01:08:26   decide when the public gets to see the phone and in what context." Because that

01:08:30   doesn't undermine our corporate goals at all, this gigantic corporate, like it was

01:08:35   a mistake and it was a fireable offense and it didn't go well. Like it went

01:08:41   pretty poorly when it's on YouTube and spread all over the internet. So it's a

01:08:47   sad story, I feel bad for everybody involved, right? But it's not a surprising

01:08:53   story and I don't think Apple was being excessively mean here because like I

01:08:57   said I think the consequences were actually pretty bad. It may not seem that

01:09:00   bad, be like well everyone knew about the phone whatever, but as we'll discuss in a

01:09:05   moment for probably the one and only topic of the show, Apple has a PR

01:09:09   department whose job it is to control how the world comes to know their products when

01:09:16   they're introduced and no part of the PR plan involves random employees in the cafeteria

01:09:21   posting vlogs about it.

01:09:25   We are sponsored this week by Betterment.

01:09:27   Rethink what your money can do.

01:09:28   For more information, visit betterment.com/ATP.

01:09:33   Betterment is the largest independent online financial advisor.

01:09:36   The service is designed to help improve your long-term returns and lower your taxes for

01:09:41   retirement planning, building wealth, and your other financial goals.

01:09:45   Betterment takes advanced investment strategies and uses technology to deliver them to more

01:09:49   than 270,000 customers so far.

01:09:52   Betterment's experts believe that you should be able to get financial advice anytime, anywhere,

01:09:57   so all Betterment customers can receive advice from their team of licensed financial experts

01:10:01   through their mobile app's messaging feature.

01:10:04   And Betterment is a fiduciary.

01:10:05   This means they don't get commissions

01:10:07   for recommending certain funds,

01:10:09   and they don't have their own funds.

01:10:10   They do what they believe is best for you.

01:10:14   And all this is brought to you

01:10:15   with only a 0.25% annual fee.

01:10:17   This is very low compared to traditional financial services.

01:10:22   And that includes unlimited message access

01:10:24   to their team of licensed financial experts.

01:10:27   And if you have a more complex financial situation,

01:10:29   for 0.4% annually, Betterment Premium

01:10:32   you unlimited phone call access to certified financial planners there at Betterment.

01:10:37   And everything Betterment does is designed to lower your taxes and your fees and increase

01:10:41   your returns.

01:10:42   For example, they have something called the tax coordinated portfolio, which on average

01:10:46   can increase portfolio value by an estimated 15% over 30 years.

01:10:50   And now Betterment is offering a free five minute investment review, helping you assess

01:10:55   your investment accounts, tax strategies, fees and risk exposure with no sign up required.

01:11:01   can visit betterment.com/ATP to learn more.

01:11:05   Investing involves risk.

01:11:06   Once again, betterment.com/ATP to start your review today.

01:11:10   Betterment, rethink what your money can do.

01:11:14   - This has been an interesting week in Apple PR.

01:11:20   And all of the talking heads like us, I think, have been,

01:11:25   in various degrees, confused, happy, upset,

01:11:29   and enthusiastic and bitter at some point or another.

01:11:34   So help me get the timeline right.

01:11:37   So was it Monday that,

01:11:39   was it Steven Levy's review came out, is that right?

01:11:43   - I believe so.

01:11:44   - Okay, yeah, I might have the details slightly wrong on this

01:11:46   but I think that's right.

01:11:48   So Steven Levy was one of the very small handful of people

01:11:52   that reviewed the original iPhone way back when.

01:11:55   and he was apparently given some sort of blessing to be the first person to get a review posted

01:12:05   of the iPhone X.

01:12:08   Then I believe Tuesday, or maybe it was late Monday, sometime shortly thereafter, it ended

01:12:16   up that we saw that a bunch of YouTubers had, if I understand things right, been offered

01:12:24   to come, it seemed in New York, offered to come in to like an Apple kind of press event

01:12:31   where they could film and use the iPhone 10 and they could film the iPhone 10 and do a

01:12:41   couple minutes with it and they could post their reviews to YouTube late Monday or early

01:12:48   Tuesday.

01:12:50   And my reaction to that was kind of like, "What the hell?"

01:12:56   Because in and of itself, YouTubers getting access wasn't remarkable.

01:13:02   Like, "Okay, fine.

01:13:04   Of course MKBHD had access."

01:13:06   But it wasn't MKBHD.

01:13:08   It was people that I had never heard of, which to be honest is actually probably a good sign

01:13:14   because I don't know who any of the popular YouTubers are.

01:13:16   But it was surprising to me because I'm at least casually aware of most of the popular

01:13:22   tech-related or tech-adjacent YouTubers, like MKBHD, like Casey Neistat and people like

01:13:28   that.

01:13:29   And these people that had access seemed to have a far, numerically anyway, a far smaller

01:13:36   following than the heavy hitters like the Neistats and MKBHDs.

01:13:41   And that was kind of weird.

01:13:43   And naturally, I was a little, maybe offended,

01:13:48   that's probably too strong a word,

01:13:49   but I was a little like,

01:13:50   "Man, why didn't I get a chance at this?

01:13:52   "Like, is podcasting not a thing?

01:13:53   "Does that not count?"

01:13:55   - I gave up on that long ago.

01:13:56   - Oh, I know, I know.

01:13:57   And it's a selfish reaction, full on.

01:14:00   But it's, you know, it was my honest reaction.

01:14:03   And I was kind of, I wasn't upset about it,

01:14:06   but I was kinda like, "What the hell?"

01:14:07   And then I talked with Joseph Polinski and Matt Alexander.

01:14:13   And Matt Alexander put up a really, really great post about kind of, what do you think

01:14:18   about when you're a product company and releasing a new product, and how do you control the

01:14:23   PR?

01:14:25   And I am unfairly summarizing it by saying the takeaway I had from it was that these

01:14:33   YouTubers that I kind of, you know, fluffed off as, "Oh, who are they?

01:14:37   They're not important," they're actually quite important just to circles that I don't pay

01:14:42   attention to. And I'm embarrassed to say that didn't occur to me until I really talked to

01:14:46   Joe and Matt about it, but it seems obvious in retrospect. And that's probably really

01:14:53   smart on Apple's part because the reality of the situation is I'm unlikely to wait very

01:15:00   long to buy an iPhone X. And most of the listeners of this show, given infinite money, would

01:15:06   probably buy an iPhone X tomorrow if they haven't already. So does Apple really need

01:15:12   to convince us to buy an iPhone X? No, not really. But what about the people that care

01:15:19   about fashion or care about things that are not just technology? And so the reactions

01:15:25   to this were varied, some very angry, some confused, some a combination of both. And

01:15:33   then shortly thereafter, I think it was Tuesday morning that all that a lot of the traditional

01:15:38   reviewers like the Groobers of the world, the Jason Snell's, etc. when their embargo

01:15:44   was lifted, and then we got some of the stuff that we expect as Apple nerds. But it's been

01:15:52   an interesting few days watching Apple try to, you know, pull the strings on this puppet

01:15:58   and figure out the best way to get this PR wave orchestrated. I don't know. I've been

01:16:07   We've been talking for a while, thoughts?

01:16:09   - I don't have a lot of thoughts on this.

01:16:11   It just seemed weird.

01:16:13   It seemed like a weird approach,

01:16:14   and it's really hard to talk about this

01:16:16   without somebody saying, "Oh, well, we're just old

01:16:19   "and out of touch because everyone gets everything

01:16:21   "from YouTube now."

01:16:24   I'm not even arguing that people on YouTube

01:16:26   shouldn't get pre-release review unit access.

01:16:30   No, I think they actually should.

01:16:31   I think Apple should go to where the people are.

01:16:33   That makes total sense, and YouTube is where

01:16:35   Many of the people are now, so that makes total sense.

01:16:38   The thing about it that seemed weird to me

01:16:40   is that compared to all past launches like this,

01:16:44   it wasn't weird that they added these YouTube channels

01:16:49   that honestly many of them were not very popular,

01:16:51   as you said.

01:16:52   It wasn't like MKBHD was there at that event

01:16:56   earlier than everyone else.

01:16:57   I don't know, but what seemed weird about it

01:16:59   was not the addition of the people who got it,

01:17:05   but the subtraction of the people who didn't.

01:17:08   Again, it's not weird that YouTubers got access.

01:17:12   It's weird that none of the press did, basically,

01:17:16   and the press that usually does.

01:17:19   As somebody who follows this stuff,

01:17:22   and I always want to read those first reviews,

01:17:25   maybe that makes me a dinosaur,

01:17:28   but for the most part, almost none of the press

01:17:32   that usually gets review units got one at all,

01:17:36   or with more than like 12 hours

01:17:39   before the publishing deadline.

01:17:41   So it was weird as a fan, most of what we have to go on

01:17:45   is very surface level, and that to me

01:17:49   is deeply unsatisfying.

01:17:51   Like I want, I want to like the in-depth reviews

01:17:54   from Gruber and from like the other tech publications

01:17:58   usually get them and to not have that felt weird.

01:18:02   And I don't think it's a good,

01:18:06   I don't think it projects confidence from Apple.

01:18:08   Like, to give so many of these reviewers less than a day

01:18:12   to review their phones suggests that Apple doesn't want them

01:18:16   to spend that much time before they publish their thoughts.

01:18:18   And I don't think that's a, like,

01:18:20   even if the iPhone X is great and by the early reports

01:18:23   it seems like it probably is, that doesn't look good.

01:18:25   Like, that doesn't exude confidence in their product

01:18:28   to say like, we're not even gonna give you enough time

01:18:29   to judge things like battery life or Face ID reliability.

01:18:32   Like, that doesn't look good for the product,

01:18:36   so it's just weird.

01:18:37   So in an ideal world, and I've seen people suggest too,

01:18:40   like, well they didn't have enough to go around,

01:18:42   that's completely wrong.

01:18:44   Like, they have plenty if you can still log on right now

01:18:47   and order one that comes in December, they have plenty.

01:18:49   Apple could have given phones to more reviewers

01:18:52   with more time if they wanted to.

01:18:54   This was clearly a choice not to do that.

01:18:57   And I just think that part is what feels off about this,

01:19:01   that we don't have those in-depth reviews

01:19:05   from tech writers, big publications,

01:19:08   really hardly any of them.

01:19:11   We have basically like three,

01:19:13   and it's weird to have so few.

01:19:16   For such an important product coming out of Apple,

01:19:20   I want more.

01:19:21   - So I think it's easy,

01:19:26   Especially if you've been following Apple for a long time, to start getting into a tail

01:19:33   wagging the dog situation, where you really start to believe that the publications and

01:19:42   people who get early access to Apple stuff and write the reviews that we like to read

01:19:50   are getting it because of some kind of merit that they have.

01:19:57   Like for the original iPhone is a good example.

01:19:59   Like the original iPhone went to Pogue, Mossberg, Ed Beig,

01:20:04   and Levy, I think.

01:20:06   Yeah, get them all there.

01:20:07   Right, but that's-- all right, so that's who it went to.

01:20:09   But the reason we were all comfortable

01:20:13   with that worldview is because it went to Wall Street Journal,

01:20:16   New York Times, USA Today, and--

01:20:18   what was Steven Levy working for then?

01:20:20   I forget, maybe time.

01:20:22   But anyway, famous old people who've been doing this

01:20:25   for a long time working for famous, powerful,

01:20:28   influential old institutions.

01:20:31   And so it fit with the mental model of,

01:20:36   if you're the New York Times, you get the iPhone early.

01:20:39   If you're the Wall Street Journal,

01:20:40   you get the iPhone only.

01:20:41   And even if you're USA Today, which may be McPaper, right?

01:20:45   But it's extremely popular, right?

01:20:48   Of course, USA Today gets one even when we say,

01:20:50   "Oh, USA Today, what is that review?"

01:20:51   And you're gonna be like, "Haha, USA Today," right?

01:20:53   But they're really big.

01:20:55   And so that all fits with our model of like,

01:21:00   the tail being the publications,

01:21:01   wagging the dog that is Apple.

01:21:03   It's like, Apple has no choice.

01:21:04   They have to give it to the Wall Street Journal.

01:21:07   Apple has no choice.

01:21:07   They have to give it to the New York Times,

01:21:08   'cause the New York Times is just too important, right?

01:21:12   But that's never been the situation.

01:21:14   The tail is not wagging the dog.

01:21:16   Apple has a PR department

01:21:18   whose job it is to choose how best to promote their products to the public.

01:21:23   It just so happens that the strategy chosen by that PR department has fit with the narrative

01:21:30   that the people who get early access get it based on prestige, longtime relationships

01:21:35   with Steve Jobs, longtime in the industry, like whatever criteria that we have come to

01:21:41   accept as like that's the reason they're getting it.

01:21:46   That should never have been the reason they were getting it.

01:21:49   Strictly speaking, it should have been that, like, it's a second degree thing where Apple's

01:21:54   like, "The best way to promote our product is to have the most prestigious newspapers

01:21:59   promoted.

01:22:00   Let's go find the most prestigious newspapers."

01:22:02   So it's a second degree.

01:22:03   It's not as if like, well, we have no choice but to give it to the most prestigious newspapers

01:22:07   because if we don't do that, we'll be hurt.

01:22:09   It's a selection of a strategy and an execution of that strategy.

01:22:13   In recent years, Apple has been changing its strategy a lot more from year to year in terms

01:22:20   of how it does everything.

01:22:22   Like the Mac roundtable showing like Yosemite early in private press briefings distributed

01:22:28   around the country, the incorporation of YouTubers starting several years ago.

01:22:35   From year to year, it's clear that Apple PR is trying different strategies.

01:22:42   depending on what strategy they're executing,

01:22:45   from that follows who gets this.

01:22:48   And there is no like, well, of course,

01:22:51   they have to go to the New York Times.

01:22:52   No, they don't.

01:22:53   They didn't do it this time.

01:22:54   They don't have to go to the Wall Street Journal.

01:22:56   Like, you know, there's no reason

01:22:58   that the Wall Street Journal has to have

01:23:00   the best and most and earliest access

01:23:02   as compared to a YouTuber with not a very big follow.

01:23:06   Like, that's not a rule.

01:23:08   It's just what Apple chooses to do.

01:23:11   Now, I'm not in PR.

01:23:12   I don't know what the best strategy for Apple is,

01:23:15   but this strategy this time around was different

01:23:19   in a way that seemed to break people's mental model

01:23:22   of how PR works and they were forced to realize

01:23:24   that who gets what when is entirely the choice of Apple

01:23:29   on how they think they can best promote their product.

01:23:32   Now you may say that they're wrong,

01:23:33   maybe you're suddenly a PR expert

01:23:34   and you're like Apple, you made a mistake,

01:23:35   you should have given this to these people

01:23:37   and that people in these times or whatever.

01:23:39   But most people on the outside

01:23:40   aren't thinking of it that way.

01:23:41   not thinking how does this put Apple's best foot forward, right? We're thinking of it

01:23:47   as consumers and I am as well. You just want your stories. I want my stories. I want to

01:23:53   read the reviews from the people that I know. And if suddenly you can't read those reviews,

01:23:56   you're like, "Oh, that's sad for me." But it's not about whether you get to read the

01:24:00   reviews from the people you want. Apple doesn't care whether you get to read the reviews from

01:24:03   the people you want unless that influences the success of their product and how it's

01:24:07   received by the public, which maybe it is and maybe that's the argument like, "Oh, because

01:24:10   you didn't give it to Walt Mossboro, he's retired now, but because you didn't give it

01:24:13   to the New York Times as early as possible, now that's going to influence me to not buy

01:24:19   the phone or whatever.

01:24:22   That's not an argument.

01:24:23   So mostly I think it's people had the wrong model of how PR works and that wrong model

01:24:30   was brought into stark relief.

01:24:32   And then a little tiny bit is you move my cheese.

01:24:35   I'm used to always reading these reviews and these people and expecting them to have a

01:24:38   week with the phone beforehand, because it's always been the case, right? And then finally,

01:24:42   the ugliest part of it is, you know, just general bitterness that somebody got the phone and somebody

01:24:50   didn't, right? Now it's easy for us to say here on podcasts where we never get anything, right? So

01:24:54   we didn't lose anything, right? We're always at the bottom of the barrel, right? Although,

01:24:57   I still, there's still room for us to be bitter too, because of course, selfishly, as Casey

01:25:01   pointed out from my perspective, I love that, you know, that more different people get the

01:25:08   iPhone. I'm a more different person too. Like we have a dinky podcast anyway. Yeah. So from

01:25:16   an outsider's perspective, not thinking of it as PR, I wish everybody got all the iPhones

01:25:21   they wanted. If you're doing any kind of stuff on YouTube, on podcasts, if you're writing

01:25:26   a blog, if you're doing anything and you're doing it day after day, year after year, week

01:25:30   after week and you're doing a good job and you have any kind of audience, I think it

01:25:35   should be possible to get review hardware for a phone after it's announced but before

01:25:39   the public can get it.

01:25:41   But that's just like, "Oh, what do you want?"

01:25:43   We're the tail here.

01:25:44   We're not the dog.

01:25:46   Question Apple has to ask is not, "Does this person deserve it or do we feel like we have

01:25:51   to give it because they have a big audience?"

01:25:52   The question is, "What is the best strategy for selling a lot of phones and making people

01:25:57   happy for them?"

01:25:58   And this year, they tried this strategy, which was this weird mix of low-volume YouTubers,

01:26:04   plus traditional media with lead time, plus some traditional media with less lead time,

01:26:10   and they'll see what the result is, and I bet they'll change it next year.

01:26:15   But people getting angry about it, like, it's a human reaction to, you know, they moved

01:26:22   my cheese, like, "I want to read the Walt Mossberg review, but he retired, and now I'm

01:26:26   angry."

01:26:27   like whatever you know like i i i wish uh you know grouper had had the phone for two weeks and

01:26:34   and he didn't well that's life right but you know it i don't think the whole class struggle thing of

01:26:42   like old world tech old white dudes who always get the reviews versus new people i don't think that's

01:26:46   actually the story other than like chiding people for being uh you know for being too

01:26:52   too sort of up their own butts about it like once you start really believing that like

01:26:56   my favorite person deserves to get the phone, you have totally lost the plot about what is going on

01:27:01   here. Some of us are just disappointed that we don't get to read the reviews from the people

01:27:07   that we wanted to read it from at the scale we wanted to read it, but that's just us.

01:27:12   Perhaps this is the most brilliant PR strategy ever for a phone with Apple choosing to do what

01:27:18   it did. We won't know until, maybe we'll never know because we won't know what the results are

01:27:24   are of this as compared to past strategies.

01:27:26   But at the very least, as a less interested outside observer,

01:27:29   because honestly, I do want to read the reviews basically

01:27:33   from people I know personally, like Jason Snell's review.

01:27:36   But that's a position that most people do not

01:27:38   find themselves in.

01:27:40   But none of them are going to influence my buying decision.

01:27:43   What's going to be influenced by my buying decision

01:27:45   is when you two get them, and when I get them,

01:27:47   and when we try them, we talk to each other, like anyone else.

01:27:52   But beyond that, I'm excited by new people getting the phones.

01:27:57   And I'm trying to think with a PR mindset,

01:28:00   why would it be a good idea to give low-volume YouTube

01:28:03   channels early access to the phone?

01:28:05   And I can think of a ton of reasons.

01:28:07   Again, not being anyone who knows anything about PR.

01:28:09   But just thinking about it for a few seconds, first of all,

01:28:13   those people are going to be so grateful.

01:28:15   Like, just like we would be grateful, Apple.

01:28:17   So those people are going to be so grateful to get

01:28:19   early access to the iPhone X. Because they

01:28:21   They know they're not some big channel that has millions and millions of subscribers.

01:28:26   They know how big they are compared to the YouTube world.

01:28:28   They are going to be so grateful to get that.

01:28:30   They're all enthusiastic.

01:28:32   These people love the iPhone.

01:28:34   They love Apple.

01:28:37   You can't buy that enthusiasm.

01:28:38   These people are not jaded, cynical.

01:28:40   I've reviewed every single thing and I just expect to get it and I'm angry if I don't.

01:28:44   They are excited to be there.

01:28:47   going to do things and review things in a way that is different than people who reviewed

01:28:52   a hundred different things.

01:28:54   I see lots of potential interesting upsides to doing what they did.

01:28:58   We already talked about the downsides.

01:29:01   Maybe it makes you look like you're scared that you don't want to give the jaded reviewer

01:29:04   access to your phone because they're just going to tear it apart because they're going

01:29:07   to find all the problems that the person who gets to play with it for ten minutes in an

01:29:11   Apple thing before release isn't going to find, right?

01:29:15   all factors into the decisions, but I'm definitely not angry that more people got access to it.

01:29:22   I'm not even really angry that my favorites didn't get access to it earlier, although

01:29:25   it seems like a lot of them are angry, which I, you know, whatever, if it's your livelihood,

01:29:29   I kind of don't blame them, but that's always the way it's been with Apple. Like, to give

01:29:33   an example from my past, for years and years and years, Ars Technica didn't get crap from

01:29:38   Apple. The Ars Technica could not get, like, they would, not that they wouldn't return

01:29:42   in our calls, but basically like,

01:29:44   they would be nice and polite,

01:29:46   but we could not get anything from Apple.

01:29:49   And eventually that changed.

01:29:51   And it changed because Apple's PR strategy changed.

01:29:55   It's not like we weren't worthy before

01:29:57   and were worthy after,

01:29:58   and it didn't feel good when we couldn't get anything, right?

01:30:02   And it felt good when we could get something,

01:30:04   but the connection between the quality of Ars Technica

01:30:08   and whether or not Apple gave us review hardware

01:30:11   was not the connection people want to think it is.

01:30:13   It is, Apple decides what to do,

01:30:15   and you honestly really have noticed

01:30:17   this important life lesson.

01:30:18   You can't control what other people do or think about you.

01:30:21   The best you can do is just decide how you're going to act

01:30:25   and do your best work and hope for the best.

01:30:27   So that's why we continue to do this podcast,

01:30:29   patiently waiting for Apple to send us

01:30:31   preview Mac Pro hardware.

01:30:33   - Please call us.

01:30:34   How funny would it be if I was the one that got the Mac Pro?

01:30:37   - Not that funny.

01:30:38   Not as funny as you think it is.

01:30:39   I would find it very funny.

01:30:41   Who else are they going to send?

01:30:43   I guess they could send preview Mac Pro hardware to like like actual professionals who are like doing video and stuff, but that's boring. What other

01:30:49   What other

01:30:51   cultural institution cares more about the Mac Pro than this podcast?

01:30:55   Two-thirds of this podcast.

01:30:58   Two out of three hosts in this podcast recommend the Mac Pro that is not yet released.

01:31:03   Oh my word. You know, I should also note that

01:31:07   This is name one bag now. I didn't get a chance to look it up

01:31:10   and I think one of you added it to the show notes, but he had a

01:31:13   relatively

01:31:16   long

01:31:17   kinda rant although I was very

01:31:20   level-headed to be called a rant but a discussion I guess about how

01:31:24   one of the advantages of giving you know, some of these youtubers access is that they're not all old white guys like we are and

01:31:31   there's a lot to be said for that and I think John you touched on this a minute ago, but

01:31:36   That's an improvement no matter how you slice it. That's an improvement to the PR strategy now

01:31:41   It does it have to be at the cost of old white dudes

01:31:43   Maybe maybe not I don't know but certainly reaching more diverse voices is a good thing for Apple

01:31:50   So you should check that out if you have about I think it was a little less than 10 minutes to spare

01:31:55   And like so many things in this world the older like the farther you go back in time the more likely it is that all

01:32:02   The people in positions of power are old white dudes, right?

01:32:04   And so any PR strategy that focuses on old white dudes is necessarily back in time.

01:32:14   Like we hope that we're making progress on all fronts and that there is a more diverse set of voices out there,

01:32:19   especially with the dawning of the internet and the lowering of the barriers to entry.

01:32:22   And if Apple was still pursuing the same strategy they did in 2007 with the iPhone and only giving it to old white dudes who work for newspapers,

01:32:30   like we would all agree that's an outdated strategy, right?

01:32:34   If they simply shift and say we should give it to new media as they did as they started giving it to websites like ours

01:32:40   Texting and stuff like that new media you would hope has better ratios of you know

01:32:46   men and women and

01:32:49   Different races like you would hope that purely by moving to new media you get more diversity

01:32:54   and that's before you even consider should we actual tart actually target diverse reviewers because

01:33:01   We're leaving money on the table if we don't do that, right?

01:33:04   And so it's not even clear to me that there was a specific effort to target more diverse

01:33:12   reviewers at this point.

01:33:13   I think it's a natural consequence of targeting modern media.

01:33:19   And again, it's not the first time they've done anything with YouTube where we were commenting

01:33:22   about the fact that they're not giving us the most popular YouTube channels or whatever.

01:33:26   But that is the promise and the beauty of the internet and YouTube and blogs and every

01:33:31   other sort of form of media without as many people preventing you from doing it.

01:33:40   Anyone can put up a blog, anyone can put up something on YouTube, and that is allowing

01:33:45   us to hear from people we previously didn't hear from.

01:33:47   They were there, we just didn't hear from them because they weren't hired by the New

01:33:50   York Times, right?

01:33:51   So that is all positive and a conscious shift towards modern media, like podcasts, which

01:33:58   which are super modern, but also still dominated by white dudes. Sorry. I think that is all

01:34:06   positive and, if anything, Apple should lean even more heavily in that direction because

01:34:10   all those voices are still underrepresented in modern media as well. It's just, like I

01:34:15   said, the older the people get and the farther you go back in time, the worse it gets in

01:34:19   terms of diversity, even if you're not doing anything different. Even if you're not consciously

01:34:22   trying to just give it to white dudes, if you want to give it to old people who work

01:34:26   in newspapers, that's what you're gonna end up with

01:34:28   much more so than if you wanna give it

01:34:29   to popular YouTubers.

01:34:31   - So now that we've discussed the completely insular

01:34:35   Brew-haha, what do we think of these reviews?

01:34:38   It sounds like this is a pretty solid phone.

01:34:41   - I don't have time to review so many of them.

01:34:43   - Yeah. (laughs)

01:34:44   No, I mean, my one hesitation basically is like,

01:34:48   almost nobody has had a chance to really live with it

01:34:50   for more than like a couple days.

01:34:53   So the initial impressions are great.

01:34:54   So I think I'm confident enough with all these reviews

01:34:57   that my first day with the phone

01:34:59   is probably gonna be awesome.

01:35:01   I just don't know what's gonna happen after that.

01:35:03   But it does seem pretty positive.

01:35:05   If nothing else, it was frustrating to see all that PR stuff

01:35:09   because almost every one of the YouTube quick takes

01:35:13   and even many of the press quick takes

01:35:15   were just kind of restating Apple's own PR points

01:35:19   about like, look, Animoji exists and it's new and shiny.

01:35:23   It's coming out soon.

01:35:25   And there wasn't much that we didn't already know.

01:35:27   Whenever we learn details of new things about it

01:35:30   that I didn't already know,

01:35:31   and that's one of the reasons why I like

01:35:32   Jason Snell's reviews so much,

01:35:33   and why I liked the upgraded podcast this week so much,

01:35:36   because it's packed full of actually new information

01:35:41   that we didn't already know as enthusiasts

01:35:43   who follow this stuff and who already saw the keynote.

01:35:45   So many of the articles and reviews and YouTube things

01:35:50   are just rehashes of the keynote event, basically.

01:35:53   And so to hear anything new is great.

01:35:55   And as we've heard new things from the very few sources

01:35:59   that have new things to report so far,

01:36:01   it just sounds really great.

01:36:03   It sounds awesome.

01:36:05   And I am very much looking forward to it.

01:36:08   I can't wait until Friday at 9 p.m.

01:36:11   when the overworked UPS server finally gets here.

01:36:15   I cannot wait for that

01:36:17   because I'm really looking forward to it.

01:36:18   It sounds like what I have wanted

01:36:22   ever since the iPhone Plus came out three years ago,

01:36:26   when was that, three years ago?

01:36:28   Ever since then, it's what I've wanted,

01:36:30   which is I would like the benefits of that

01:36:33   in a smaller body that I can actually hold

01:36:35   more easily than the big one.

01:36:37   And so this seems to offer basically that.

01:36:41   There's a few things that are different.

01:36:42   The screen is taller and skinnier.

01:36:45   It isn't the same aspect ratio and width as the Plus phone,

01:36:49   but it seems like we have the best of everything

01:36:52   this phone finally and that's gonna be really great.

01:36:56   I am a little concerned about reachability,

01:36:58   of the vertical reachability,

01:37:01   but I'm kinda looking forward to it.

01:37:03   As an app developer, I finally, I shipped Overcast 4,

01:37:08   it should be out by the time this show is edited

01:37:09   if everything goes well.

01:37:10   Now I have a giant canvas to play with

01:37:14   and now I have a whole UI to rethink.

01:37:16   I haven't really done much of that yet.

01:37:18   I basically just expanded the existing UI

01:37:21   to fill the screen properly because I didn't want to do any redesign work without actually

01:37:26   having it in my hand physically to test with and to see like how does this actually feel,

01:37:31   what can I actually reach, you know, things like that. But I'm looking forward to this

01:37:35   new era of kind of having to rethink everything. It's a ton of work for developers as I mentioned

01:37:41   last week but I think it's going to be really nice when we get there and I'm really looking

01:37:46   forward to having all this real estate on the screen to play with. You know, my

01:37:50   now playing screen can have so many more features now that I have like a tall

01:37:55   skinny aspect ratio. So like I'm looking forward to it both as a developer and as

01:37:59   a user and as a fan of this stuff and I'm happy to see so far that the

01:38:04   reviews, shallow as many of them are, are seemingly universally positive and it

01:38:11   seems like everyone loves face ID, it seems like it's really fast, it seems

01:38:14   like it does, it's not perfect, but it's close enough

01:38:16   and people don't seem to notice it much anymore,

01:38:18   which is awesome.

01:38:19   Overall, I'm very excited.

01:38:21   I'm very happy and thankful I got a day one order in

01:38:25   and I just can't wait to get it.

01:38:27   - Yep.

01:38:28   - Yeah, I'm mostly relieved that FaceTime works

01:38:31   as we always hoped it would. - Face ID.

01:38:33   - Sorry, yes, Face ID.

01:38:36   Because that was my big fear, that Face ID would be good,

01:38:41   but just barely under the threshold of annoyance.

01:38:46   And every review I've read so far has said it's fine.

01:38:50   Like it does, it works like Apple says it's supposed to

01:38:53   within the parameters that they set out,

01:38:54   there are no surprises and it feels good to use.

01:38:57   It's different, but as someone who spent a long time

01:39:00   with touch ID phones, you know, we all know

01:39:04   and have internalized the vagaries of touch ID.

01:39:07   No wet fingers, sometimes doesn't get it on the first try

01:39:09   You got to pick up your finger and put it down again.

01:39:12   Every once in a while you get the code thrown in your face.

01:39:16   And we just accept that as the price of living with Touch ID.

01:39:19   Face ID has all the equivalents of that.

01:39:21   It's too far away from me.

01:39:22   There's bright sun.

01:39:24   You know, my identical twin can unlock my phone.

01:39:27   All sorts of things like, yes, every one of these things has inherent problems.

01:39:30   But the videos I've seen about how long it takes to unlock, like people going down and

01:39:37   doing a timing and a stopwatch and everything like that shows me so far, not having used

01:39:41   one of these myself, that it seems like it's under the threshold, like that it's acceptable.

01:39:48   And like Touch ID was in the first iteration, Touch ID in the first iteration was also,

01:39:53   like, you know, it was obviously a vast improvement over typing in code, but it got better in

01:39:57   the second.

01:39:58   So I'm already looking forward to the second one, but the first one, like there's no catastrophic

01:40:02   problem, like, "Oh my goodness, this phone hinges on Face ID, and Face ID is just too

01:40:07   annoying to use, that does not appear to be the case."

01:40:10   So I'm relieved in that case.

01:40:13   And there are a few reviews I've read in full, like Jason's, and I've read some of

01:40:18   Panzareno's, like their take on the phone obviously speaks to me the most because they

01:40:24   come from the same experiences that I do.

01:40:26   But getting back to the PR thing briefly, all those reviews, they're like, "Oh, this

01:40:29   is a shallow review and doesn't tell me anything that I didn't already know. The people who

01:40:33   watch that video don't know all the things that we already know because they didn't pore

01:40:37   over the keynote and do a three hour podcast about it. That's all new information to the

01:40:41   people who watch that channel. People who watch that channel have seen like an advertisement

01:40:45   and some images on articles that didn't read and everything they're being told they're

01:40:48   learning it for the first time from a trusted face that they know, right? That's so again

01:40:53   if I had to put myself my PR hat on and think like if you you know how do you imagine PR

01:40:57   might work, reaching people who aren't, you know, pouring over everything that comes from

01:41:05   Apple, those reviews aren't shallow to them.

01:41:08   That is a giant info dump as far as they're concerned.

01:41:10   Yeah, we're hearing things that were like, "Yeah, yeah, I knew that, I knew that, I knew

01:41:13   that."

01:41:14   But the people who are watching those videos on those channels that are not tech-related

01:41:18   didn't know any of that stuff.

01:41:19   And they're seeing the new iPhone for the very first time.

01:41:22   Maybe they don't even understand what a big deal it is.

01:41:24   Like, "Whatever, the new iPhone, is it out yet?

01:41:25   Can you buy it?

01:41:26   my friends already have it, they don't know.

01:41:29   Those are channels that were probably being underserved

01:41:32   by just giving it to the tech columnists

01:41:34   in the Wall Street Journal

01:41:35   and a bunch of Apple blogger nerds.

01:41:37   So again, I can imagine all sorts of potential upsides

01:41:41   to the strategy that Apple took.

01:41:44   Even someone like MKBHD has a nerd audience.

01:41:47   Like that's a nerdy channel, right?

01:41:48   It's not the same as giving it to someone

01:41:50   who works for a fashion magazine.

01:41:52   It's a different audience

01:41:53   and Apple's reaching different people with this strategy.

01:41:55   Now, who was that? I think it was Marco or Casey. Which one of you brought up the subtracting

01:42:01   people?

01:42:02   Me.

01:42:03   That's part of the strategy of not giving it to the other institutions. I have more

01:42:08   trouble thinking up a reason for that other than they were afraid that the cranky sort

01:42:16   of, you know, the old guard would be more likely to spend time focusing on the flaws

01:42:22   and less time being excited about the cool stuff.

01:42:25   But that's just a theory.

01:42:27   And again, I think Apple PR tries things

01:42:30   and looks at the results and adjusts their strategy.

01:42:32   And they've done it so many times

01:42:33   that I give them leeway to try this strategy

01:42:35   and we'll see what they do with the next one.

01:42:38   - All right, thanks to our sponsors this week,

01:42:39   Casper, Betterment, and Jamf Now.

01:42:42   And we'll see you next week.

01:42:44   (upbeat music)

01:42:46   ♪ Now the show is over ♪

01:42:49   ♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪

01:42:51   'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:42:57   John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:43:02   'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:43:07   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:43:13   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:43:17   at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S, so that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

01:43:26   N-T-Marco-Armin, S-I-R-A-C, U-S-A-S-C-Racusa.

01:43:33   It's accidental.

01:43:35   It's accidental.

01:43:36   They didn't mean to.

01:43:39   Accidental.

01:43:40   Accidental.

01:43:41   Tech podcast so long.

01:43:46   I have some after show things to ask Casey about. So I am super behind on Twitter.

01:43:51   Casey, have you already posted your video review of the Alpha?

01:43:57   No, good God no. Yeah, Marco and I spoke about this a little bit in the pre-show,

01:44:02   and I have purchased Final Cut Pro, Final Cut Pro X, whatever it is.

01:44:09   This free car is already costing you money.

01:44:11   Oh, is it ever.

01:44:12   I did post a like literally eight second teaser to Twitter earlier today.

01:44:19   I stopped that teaser deliberately right before I got to Quadrifoglio because I didn't want

01:44:24   to have the entire internet make fun of me for pronouncing that incorrectly.

01:44:29   So I am pleased with the progress I'm making on the video, but I have made very little

01:44:36   progress and it is slow going.

01:44:38   But that progress that has been made I'm pleased with.

01:44:40   So I am actually, I did actually see that clip, so that's how far behind I am on Twitter.

01:44:44   I think I just read that before we sat down podcasting, and I have one piece of advice.

01:44:48   I watched it with mute on so I didn't hear any of the audio, but what I did see is one

01:44:53   of the default fonts for iMoves for titles.

01:44:56   Everyone got so cranky about that.

01:44:58   Do not use that font.

01:45:00   Everyone got so cranky about that.

01:45:03   I don't believe, I don't think it was the default.

01:45:06   Now I'm not arguing it was one of a short list of options, completely correct, but it

01:45:12   was not the default I don't believe, and I have since changed it to Futura because I

01:45:16   haven't come up with a better plan yet.

01:45:18   Well, I was gonna, if you hadn't changed that I would have said, let me put it this way,

01:45:23   that's the font I use on my Destiny videos.

01:45:25   You should be aiming higher than that.

01:45:26   Fair enough.

01:45:27   Well Casey, you know, if you have a bunch of people complaining that your font isn't

01:45:30   good enough, you only have two options.

01:45:33   Comic Sans and Papyrus.

01:45:34   Well, I know avatar already used for pirates. You don't want to be confused with that was hard

01:45:38   Yeah, I mean so far so good

01:45:42   I can certainly send the two of you guys a draft if you give a crap so for the the first two seconds

01:45:47   I saw that also again with mute on or whatever seven seconds or whatever it was

01:45:51   Mm-hmm don't take this the wrong way, but it's hard for me to tell whether you are doing an homage to the

01:45:58   Car-review channels that you watch and love or a parody of them

01:46:02   I don't feel like you should feel constrained by the formats that have come before. Yes,

01:46:09   we've all seen these other car channels, but I don't think you need to do a car review the

01:46:16   way you do them. You can do them the Casey way. Now, maybe it starts by saying, "I'm going to

01:46:20   imitate the channels that I know and love," or maybe you are sending them up, or maybe half of

01:46:25   it is the joke that you are exactly following the format of the channels that you like, but it's

01:46:29   funny because it's you doing it right I don't know I have been sound was off but

01:46:34   I would encourage you to spread your wings and fly and do whatever the hell

01:46:38   kind of car view you want to do your assessment is semi correct so I need to

01:46:45   pull from somewhere right like I'm not a creative enough person that I can just

01:46:49   fart out like this brand new paradigm yes you are you're an excellent farter

01:46:53   Casey I am a very good farter they're full of gas everybody loves it but is

01:46:58   Is that a marketable skill?

01:47:00   We wish.

01:47:01   Because if so...

01:47:02   Yeah, the three of us, we've got that on lock.

01:47:04   No, I need somewhere to start from, and my starting point, and certainly the first seven

01:47:10   seconds completely bears this out, and you are right, but my starting point is kind of

01:47:15   mostly Doug DeMuro style review, but the formula is not identical.

01:47:22   It's not a bunch of quirks, then in-car video, then Doug's score.

01:47:29   It's not going to be quite that formulaic, but I do start with some of me talking around

01:47:33   the outside of the car, then me talking about—well, that's about all I've got so far—that the

01:47:37   intention is of me talking about the inside of the car, but very little in the realm of

01:47:43   quirks and more about just what does it feel like to drive a Giulia.

01:47:48   And then a little bit of ride-along footage, which I actually think will probably be pretty

01:47:51   brief because all it's going to be is me giggling about how fast it is and how good it sounds.

01:47:57   And then a little bit at the end, which is again me standing in front of the car outside.

01:48:05   And I have a couple of, I feel like this is, if it goes the way I intend, it's going to

01:48:12   be part Doug DeMuro, part CGP Grey.

01:48:17   that I have some…

01:48:18   That's going to be stick figures at some point.

01:48:21   No, no, no, no, no. Well, not really.

01:48:23   That would be awesome.

01:48:24   So that… I don't know if you saw it, Jon. This might have been before you jumped on

01:48:29   the call, but I put in the chat a link to a still picture that I had taken, which is

01:48:36   of the three key fobs. And so, yeah, this was when you were here, because you were talking

01:48:40   about the accord key fob.

01:48:41   Yep, yep, I saw it.

01:48:43   And the schtick with that is that is like the final frame in me building up to what

01:48:51   you see.

01:48:52   So as the voiceover is going, I have just a white sheet of paper, and then you see the

01:48:58   BMW E90 key appear, and then the next quote-unquote frame, which is probably 30 literal frames

01:49:05   later, you see the E90 having been written, and then you see the F30 key appear 30 frames

01:49:11   later the f30 key rate that's that's been written you see what I'm saying so

01:49:15   there's like a there's some gags not gags that's too strong a word but like

01:49:19   some cutesy timing that I'm trying to do for a couple of these things is that on

01:49:24   top of a toilet tank no also screw you that's my trunk you bastard that's a

01:49:30   white car it's hard to tell you two are the worst that's funny but you two are

01:49:38   the worst. God bless America. That just shows how clean he keeps his car. It's so polished.

01:49:45   You thought I was a toilet. Anyway, but the reason I say it's vaguely CGP Grey-ish is

01:49:51   that I think one of the ten--tenant is the word I'm looking for--one of the like shticks

01:49:57   with the CGP Grey video is being cutesy with the timing. And I mean that in a complimentary

01:50:01   You know, like things are happening visually on beats, verbal beats, and so

01:50:08   there's like a little bit of that going on and there's a little bit of that with regard to the interior as well.

01:50:15   I hope I can trim it down. Like it's a couple of minutes long. How long is this? It's three minutes right now and it has

01:50:23   probably a third of the footage I want, maybe even a little less than that, and I'm aiming for between five and ten minutes.

01:50:30   I think the 20 minute to Miro Doug DeMiro reviews

01:50:33   That's way too much for me today if I get in the habit of doing this

01:50:36   Maybe I'll get in the habit of doing you know 20 minute reviews one day eventually

01:50:41   But for my first crack at this I really hope to stay under 10 and would prefer to be closer to 5

01:50:47   But I I think it'll be 10 or it may be even more than that

01:50:50   Just don't spend a lot of time on the owners manual on the spare tire, and you'll be fine

01:50:54   Sorry, Doug. Okay noted I

01:50:58   deeply regret not having bought or rented or done something to get a lav mic.

01:51:03   I think the audio quality is I'm going to get dinged for pretty bad to the point that I am debating

01:51:09   actually trying to dub. ADR. Yeah.

01:51:12   I feel like bad audio on your first YouTube video featuring yourself is a rite of passage for everybody who's not Marco.

01:51:19   Yeah, that's probably true actually. Even I only had mediocre audio.

01:51:22   No, but you were way above the normal bar

01:51:25   Which is like you sounds like you're talking to a laptop microphone from across the room

01:51:29   Everybody's first YouTube video has to be like that. I think it's the rule. Yeah. I mean I was wearing a lot of Mike

01:51:33   Just a crappy one

01:51:35   I had crappy lava

01:51:37   You still sounded way way better than what people's first YouTube video supposed to sound like. Yeah

01:51:42   No, I mean I would say Casey like it's better to like and and I'm saying this to myself as much as you because when I

01:51:49   Tried to do a like nice looking YouTube video with my MacBook Pro review

01:51:52   do like I look back on it recently and it's like I can't. I can't even watch

01:51:57   it. It's so bad like at the time. I didn't think it was that bad now and

01:52:01   looking back on it now. I think it's really bad and I it's painful for me to

01:52:04   even see it.

01:52:05   Some of the one of the lessons I learned from that that I wish I would have

01:52:09   learned before I made it is it's better to do a better job at a format. You can

01:52:15   do better than to then to aim too high with with the format or style that you

01:52:21   want to create and do a bad job of it.

01:52:24   And that's what I did.

01:52:26   I aimed too high and I tried to create a much higher

01:52:29   production value video than what my skill and experience

01:52:33   and to some degree equipment was actually capable of.

01:52:36   But this is mostly not an equipment problem.

01:52:39   This is mostly a skill and experience problem.

01:52:41   And the fact is, we've made so few videos,

01:52:45   I don't know if you have a better knack at it than I do,

01:52:47   it's hard to have a worse knack at it than I do.

01:52:49   If I make any more videos, I'm going to try to make them

01:52:52   in a more casual way with lower production value

01:52:55   intentionally to prevent me from getting too much

01:52:58   in the weeds here because like, you know,

01:53:01   you might be thinking about fixing your audio,

01:53:03   that's cool, you should have good audio if you can,

01:53:04   but that's probably not gonna be your biggest challenge.

01:53:07   Your biggest challenge is gonna be like things that

01:53:11   people who make video more and who are experienced

01:53:14   and/or trained with it are better.

01:53:16   So things like composition, timing, cutting, motion,

01:53:20   color correction, stuff that casual beginners

01:53:25   just don't get or need experience to develop to get.

01:53:29   And because we've made so few videos,

01:53:34   we don't have that yet.

01:53:36   So it's better, I think, to aim for something more casual,

01:53:40   less produced, less fancy, and just put that out there

01:53:46   than to try to make something super professional

01:53:49   when you don't have the tool set or the skill set

01:53:52   or the experience to be able to achieve

01:53:55   the look you're going for yet.

01:53:57   - Yeah, I think that makes sense.

01:53:58   And I think, I feel like my aspiration

01:54:03   is to have something that feels like,

01:54:06   or even feels vaguely like a cross of DeMuro and Grey.

01:54:10   Not to say that that's my marching orders,

01:54:12   but that somebody could watch this film

01:54:16   or whatever you want to call it, this video,

01:54:18   and say, "Yeah, I see what he was going for there.

01:54:20   And I can see a little sprinkle of demure

01:54:22   and a little sprinkle of gray there.

01:54:23   And okay, he didn't get there,

01:54:26   but I see where this line is heading."

01:54:29   Well, you can't really have a line

01:54:30   if it's only one data point,

01:54:30   but you know what I'm saying?

01:54:32   I understand where he's going with this.

01:54:33   And yeah, that was a bit ham-fisted here.

01:54:35   The audio is crappy there, but there's promise here.

01:54:40   Does that make sense?

01:54:40   Like, I feel like it is within my skillset

01:54:45   to get in the vicinity of this perfect video

01:54:50   that I have in my brain.

01:54:51   And I don't think I'm gonna deliver the perfect video

01:54:54   that's in my brain, but I do feel like the things

01:54:57   I'm asking of myself, I'm reaching to get to them,

01:55:01   but I think they're by and large attainable,

01:55:06   which is the best place to be, right?

01:55:09   Where you're uncomfortable but not.

01:55:10   And so that's where I think I am.

01:55:14   remind me of this when the video's released

01:55:15   in Sutter Garbage.

01:55:16   - Well, and the thing is too,

01:55:18   you're comparing yourself to people who are such pros.

01:55:22   - Yeah.

01:55:23   - Well, Doug D'Amiro, come on.

01:55:25   - D'Amiro is good.

01:55:26   - I'll give you a quick story here.

01:55:29   So, Grey's gonna be so embarrassed that I'm saying this,

01:55:32   but oh well.

01:55:33   Sorry, Grey.

01:55:34   I don't wanna give any details really

01:55:36   in case it embarrasses anybody,

01:55:37   but at some point I witnessed somebody asking Grey

01:55:42   for a critique on a video.

01:55:45   He like kinda went on his phone for a few minutes

01:55:48   and the conversation went elsewhere.

01:55:49   And about 15 minutes later, he showed on his phone,

01:55:53   he had, just on his phone, he had recut the entire video

01:55:58   and was showing frame by frame, and I saw before and after,

01:56:02   and his was way better just by recutting the footage

01:56:06   that he was given in this video.

01:56:08   And he was able to explain why he rearranged things,

01:56:11   he trimmed things differently, why he,

01:56:14   like certain scenes flowed into the other ones

01:56:15   better than the other ones and how this reordering

01:56:18   and recutting of this completely changed

01:56:21   the feel and pace and overall quality of this video.

01:56:25   And to see him do that, it's like,

01:56:27   I imagine like when non-tech people see tech people

01:56:33   like whiz through a problem on the computer super fast

01:56:35   and it blows their mind, that's how I felt watching this.

01:56:38   Like I'm like, oh my god, like that's,

01:56:40   And this is a skill set that people like Gray have,

01:56:43   'cause they're very experienced with this,

01:56:45   and they're very good at it.

01:56:47   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:56:47   - When I compare how, the way I approach making a video

01:56:52   to the way that I saw a pro do it,

01:56:56   my God, it worlds apart.

01:56:58   I don't even have the vocabulary to describe

01:57:05   what it is that he was doing and why it was better,

01:57:08   but it was way better.

01:57:10   And the way he was explaining it,

01:57:13   like it made total sense,

01:57:15   but I could never come up with that.

01:57:16   And so like, you're getting started in this.

01:57:19   You know, you don't have a lot of video experience, right?

01:57:21   Like you don't have like a secret YouTube career

01:57:24   that we didn't know about?

01:57:25   - No, and for those who listen to this,

01:57:27   if this makes the released version of the show,

01:57:29   like I have never ever edited a podcast, truly.

01:57:32   I never have, not once.

01:57:33   Because it's always been either you or Mike

01:57:35   you know, one of your minions that has done it for you.

01:57:38   - Oh yeah, man, we got an organization full of minions here.

01:57:41   - Yeah, exactly, the two of you,

01:57:42   just minions all the way down.

01:57:44   But you know what I mean?

01:57:45   Like I've never even edited a podcast.

01:57:47   So I've dabbled in iMovie a couple times

01:57:49   and I think I've dabbled in GarageBand maybe once,

01:57:52   but these are tools that I am not familiar with.

01:57:56   So I'm just kind of hacking at it.

01:57:58   You know, I feel like I'm going through the jungle,

01:58:00   not with a machete, but with like a pocket knife.

01:58:03   and I do feel like I'm making forward progress, but unequivocally what I release is going

01:58:10   to look ham-fisted. What I hope, though, is that once you get past the crap audio, and

01:58:16   once you get past the fact that the timing is wrong, once you get past the fact that

01:58:19   inevitably this video will run longer than it should—and I'm going to try my damnedest

01:58:23   to cut it down, but I know it'll end up running too long—I hope that you, the collective

01:58:29   of you can see this and say, "I see the start of something here. It's probably not the end,

01:58:38   hopefully not the end. And this, I can see how this is going to get better with time."

01:58:44   And part of the way I've tried to do that is I do feel like my review, my video review,

01:58:49   is going to have a bit of a narrative. I feel like I can, I have created an arc, and I even

01:58:54   took some engineering paper from college and like drew out like really crudely drawn storyboards,

01:58:58   which I think I put on like my Insta stories.

01:59:00   - I saw those, I thought that was adorable.

01:59:03   - But it's, I mean, that's how I'm trying to like

01:59:05   frame it in my head.

01:59:06   - 'Cause you were doing it on real pencil and paper,

01:59:08   like your Mike Hurley or something.

01:59:10   - Yeah, which is barbaric,

01:59:12   but it's the best way I could come up with

01:59:13   to try to like reason through the story I wanna tell.

01:59:17   And I think if I didn't at least have the beginnings

01:59:21   in that regard, I would be totally lost

01:59:24   and this video would never come out.

01:59:26   But since I have--

01:59:26   could have done an Xcode storyboard, finally find a use for it.

01:59:31   That's true. But I guess what I'm saying in a roundabout way is this is going to be embarrassing

01:59:38   when I release it, if I do at all. It may be so embarrassing that I don't release it

01:59:41   or I only send it to my friends.

01:59:43   I don't know. You should, after you release this video, you should by all rights have

01:59:47   the most popular YouTube channel on this podcast. I mean, I think Marco does have, you have

01:59:54   a lot of views on your on your your MacBook thing but in theory a review of

01:59:59   an $80,000 sports sedan has more like general interest than yet another review

02:00:05   of like a laptop so I feel like you should come out as the undisputed views

02:00:09   champion of ATP I hope I think I hope so and I think my plan is to release it I

02:00:16   really do feel like I can get it to a point that I'm only lightly embarrassed

02:00:20   by it rather than deeply embarrassed by it. But we'll see what happens. And part of the

02:00:26   reason I really want to release it is because I feel like I have a story here. And that

02:00:30   story may not be interesting to anyone else. It's like, you know, when you when you have

02:00:34   like a really good slideshow of your vacation, right? To some degree, what we made you sit

02:00:38   through John when when Marco and I went to Germany, and then again, when we went to the

02:00:43   driving school, like to us, we had this like story arc, and it was fascinating and exciting.

02:00:47   to you it might have been a total frickin snooze. It may be the same thing here, but

02:00:51   I feel like I have a story arc, I feel like I have something to say, and maybe it's completely

02:00:58   selfish, but I've already filmed my conclusion, and I add- I knew what I wanted to say, but

02:01:04   I ad-libbed it, and I'm really, really happy with how it came out. And so, I feel like

02:01:10   if I- I've got a decent start, and I've got a good- a pretty good end that I'm pretty

02:01:15   happy with. So if I can just get the middle okay, then it'll be okay. And we'll see what

02:01:22   happens. But I am having fun. And that's the other thing. If nothing else, I'm having fun.

02:01:27   And I'm adding a tool to my tool belt. Will that be interesting or useful in the future?

02:01:33   Maybe not. Who knows? But Alpha Romeo has told me that they're going to give me another

02:01:37   car next year, not a Giulia, something else. We'll see if it comes to fruition in part

02:01:42   because baby. But in theory I'll have access to an Alfa Romeo. My dad actually just bought

02:01:49   an interesting car which I can tell you two about privately later. So if he really and

02:01:55   truly loves me then maybe he'll let me review that.

02:01:57   It might be easier to get your car from a manufacturer than from your dad.

02:02:01   I think you might be right. And you haven't even met my dad.

02:02:03   You know I only have one question. It is not white.

02:02:06   Oh, it's silver. Didn't we see a picture of it last time?

02:02:09   Yeah, it's silver. It's just shiny white.

02:02:12   That's just I know God you're the worst but but you see what I'm saying like

02:02:15   There is a way in which I can probably eke out a couple more videos

02:02:21   And if I have a handful of videos under my belt, maybe it's possible to get access to cars

02:02:27   I wouldn't already have access to and I've actually had a couple people reach out via Twitter

02:02:31   Which is extremely kind and nice of them and say hey if you want to review my you know, genuinely interesting car

02:02:36   I I'm happy to do it and

02:02:39   That works for regular car reviews. I don't know if I'm comfortable with that because god forbid I broke something like then what you know

02:02:46   Or if I ran into somebody then what you know, so I'm not

02:02:49   Entirely comfortable with that or at least not now

02:02:52   But it's been extremely flattering that somebody would be you know, willing to even entertain the idea

02:02:57   So who knows maybe this will be a one-and-done thing and and I'll be embarrassed about it in a month

02:03:03   Or maybe even an hour after it's posted but so far I'm learning and having fun

02:03:08   and I know it's very like Kumbaya and Touchy-Fele,

02:03:11   but that's really the most I can ask for at the moment.

02:03:14   - Alright, let me pose an alternative path here.

02:03:18   So, A, you waffled a minute ago about whether

02:03:23   you'd even release this video.

02:03:24   You definitely should release this video.

02:03:26   Because the way you get better at making videos

02:03:30   is by making videos.

02:03:32   It's just like everything else.

02:03:34   You're not gonna get good at something

02:03:37   if you do it twice a year when you get a press car.

02:03:40   Like that's not going to be enough.

02:03:42   You should actually consider doing reviews of other cars,

02:03:47   boring cars, other things that aren't cars.

02:03:51   Review helicopters, I don't care.

02:03:52   Just review, if this is a thing you want to get good

02:03:55   at doing, you have to construct ways to do it more often.

02:03:59   Because otherwise you're never going to be able to

02:04:04   create the kind of thing you want to create.

02:04:06   If you're not getting more experience per unit of time,

02:04:11   doing one of these a year is not gonna be enough.

02:04:13   So if you actually want this to be a thing

02:04:16   that you get good at and that you do on a regular basis,

02:04:19   do more of it, find ways to do more of it.

02:04:21   And maybe that's just reviewing boring cars sometimes.

02:04:25   If you make yourself a deal, review one car a month

02:04:31   and then try to figure out how do you even do that,

02:04:33   how do you get set up for that,

02:04:36   how much effort do you have to make this fit within

02:04:40   in order to be able to afford time-wise

02:04:42   to do it once per month?

02:04:44   Set that system in motion.

02:04:45   And whether that's, like, you could have something like,

02:04:48   what if you get friendly with a local used car dealer,

02:04:51   and whenever they have a cool used car in,

02:04:54   you give 'em some small amount of money

02:04:56   and they let you borrow it for a few days.

02:05:00   'Cause then it's no sweat off their back, it's used anyway.

02:05:03   Borrow for a few days, maybe you promote their dealership

02:05:05   at the end of it or something.

02:05:07   There are ways to solve this problem.

02:05:10   And there are ways, if you want to only review cars,

02:05:13   and you don't want to borrow a friend's cars,

02:05:15   there are ways around that.

02:05:16   There are things that you can do here.

02:05:19   And if that's not enough for you,

02:05:22   first of all, review your car, hello.

02:05:24   Like, you have-- (laughs)

02:05:26   - Well, but my car is old now,

02:05:27   is that being said? - It doesn't matter.

02:05:28   It doesn't, you know what, there's a lot of people

02:05:30   who are wanting to buy used BMWs

02:05:33   and want to know which ones are good.

02:05:35   - None.

02:05:36   - And which ones have a lot of expensive work

02:05:39   that needs to be done.

02:05:39   - Yeah, exactly.

02:05:40   - But like people want it, like,

02:05:42   you're not gonna compete with like,

02:05:44   you know, the pros for like getting all the

02:05:48   high profile views for every brand new car.

02:05:50   People are gonna go to the big reviewers for that.

02:05:53   Where you can compete is on things

02:05:55   that the big reviewers aren't spending time on.

02:05:57   So you can compete with all the crazy cars

02:06:00   you have access to in your everyday life,

02:06:02   and there's gonna be someone looking for that.

02:06:04   And you can use those lower profile, lower traffic,

02:06:08   lower pressure videos to build your skills with

02:06:12   so that on the off chance that you do get

02:06:14   some kind of awesome new press car

02:06:17   that is higher profile and expensive and fancy,

02:06:19   you will already have built the skills

02:06:22   so you won't have to be learning on that one.

02:06:24   Build the skills up in a more training wheels

02:06:28   kind of environment where the stakes are lower

02:06:30   and you can do it more often.

02:06:32   And then you can be ready for when something big happens.

02:06:35   - Yeah, I completely agree with you.

02:06:36   And I think just looking at my network,

02:06:39   for lack of a better term, that sounds so LinkedIn,

02:06:42   but maybe I could get some seat time

02:06:45   in either your car or Underscore's car.

02:06:47   - Yes, you know how many car people you know?

02:06:49   - Exactly.

02:06:50   - Every conversation I have with you,

02:06:51   you're telling me about one of your friends

02:06:52   who has a cool car.

02:06:53   Like, (laughs)

02:06:55   you know so many car people.

02:06:57   This is not a hard thing for you to do.

02:06:59   if you wanted to set this up,

02:07:01   you could very easily set this up.

02:07:03   Also, here's how you-- - That and Aaron's car.

02:07:05   - Yeah, Aaron's car, your car, your parents' cars,

02:07:08   all your friends' cars, you can happily drive mine

02:07:11   if you can get yourself here somehow.

02:07:13   That's, this is totally a thing that you can do.

02:07:16   It is not that hard.

02:07:18   If you want to get yourself set up with this,

02:07:21   you already have a pretty good network in place to do it.

02:07:25   It's a big time commitment,

02:07:27   but developing any new skill like this is going to be.

02:07:30   So if you want to do it, figure out a way to do it.

02:07:33   Set it up, make it a habit.

02:07:36   And that's how you'll get good at it.

02:07:38   I'm not saying that you're gonna make bad stuff.

02:07:41   - No, no, no, no, I'm totally with you.

02:07:42   - What I'm saying is I know what you're going for

02:07:45   and you're not gonna be able to achieve

02:07:48   the level you want to achieve unless you do it regularly,

02:07:52   unless you make a habit of it.

02:07:53   Then you're gonna develop the skills to do it over time.

02:07:56   but you have to start doing that,

02:07:58   and you're not gonna do that if you only get one car a year.

02:08:01   - Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with everything you said.

02:08:03   And, you know, Aaron and I have talked about it a bit,

02:08:07   and, you know, we've talked about, you know,

02:08:08   is this worth spending money on, you know,

02:08:10   outside of Final Cut Pro, obviously?

02:08:12   Like, is it worth me getting, you know,

02:08:13   a $100 lav mic and, you know, maybe a multi-hundred dollar,

02:08:17   like, XLR portable recorder?

02:08:19   And the answer is we don't know, but--

02:08:21   - Okay, stop right there.

02:08:22   This stuff is really cheap.

02:08:23   You don't need to spend that much money.

02:08:25   What you need is an iPhone, maybe a gimbal for it,

02:08:29   and some kind of small mic that you can clip to your shirt

02:08:34   and record, but those are surprise,

02:08:36   if you don't want something fancy and wireless

02:08:38   that goes up to SLRs, you can go really cheap and it works.

02:08:41   - Oh, there you go.

02:08:42   But my point is to say like,

02:08:43   what both time and financial commitment is worth,

02:08:48   is this worth?

02:08:49   And on the surface, the conservative answer

02:08:52   is not a single cent and not a single minute,

02:08:55   But it's not quite that simple, right?

02:08:56   Because what if, and I was talking to Erin about this,

02:08:59   and this is probably going to be embarrassing to say

02:09:03   at some point in my life, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

02:09:06   Suddenly this became analog.

02:09:07   What if this becomes another livelihood for me and my family?

02:09:13   And what if doing the podcast and doing these videos

02:09:20   is enough to fund our existence?

02:09:22   And what if then I didn't have to go to a jobby job every day?

02:09:27   And what if I could then spend more time with my family?

02:09:30   You know, like, it's a moonshot.

02:09:31   I don't think that'll ever, ever, ever, ever happen.

02:09:34   But why wouldn't I just give it a whirl and see what happens?

02:09:38   You know, because, and I'm basically repeating, I'm parroting what you said, Marco, back to

02:09:43   you.

02:09:44   But that's kind of the way I'm looking at it right now is, who knows?

02:09:46   What if I have a bit of a knack for this?

02:09:48   I feel like there's something here and it's not going to be mature and it's gonna have problems

02:09:54   but why not to use a underscore ism why not unpack this a little bit and

02:09:59   See what I come up with because maybe maybe I've got this

02:10:03   I mean if you really want to go for the moonshot of the moonshot

02:10:06   What if I end up on Top Gear America in ten years like again that I?

02:10:10   Understand how preposterous and comical that is but who knows like why should I say I can't do that?

02:10:16   You never know.

02:10:17   Weirder things have happened.

02:10:20   - Yeah, I mean, look, and worst case scenario,

02:10:24   you have a really cool, fulfilling hobby

02:10:26   that you really enjoy.

02:10:27   - Yeah, exactly.

02:10:27   - That's the worst case scenario.

02:10:29   You get to film cars and talk about them.

02:10:31   You do that anyway.

02:10:32   I can't think of a better hobby for you to have.

02:10:36   If you happen to be able to turn this hobby

02:10:38   into a business, cool, that's bonus.

02:10:40   But either way, it's good.

02:10:42   Like, either way, it's gonna make you happy to do it.

02:10:44   And look, everybody has hobbies.

02:10:45   John plays Destiny, you can shoot car videos.

02:10:49   - Right?

02:10:49   I don't know, John, take me back to Earth, am I crazy?

02:10:53   - I was just gonna say, it's making me feel old

02:10:56   to hear people whose spirits haven't been crushed

02:10:58   by life yet.

02:10:59   (laughing)

02:11:01   - That's the most John answer ever.

02:11:03   - With optimism, yeah, I do play Destiny,

02:11:06   and I make videos of me playing Destiny,

02:11:08   and it's a fulfilling hobby.

02:11:10   - Wait, do you have like a channel where you put those?

02:11:12   - Yeah.

02:11:13   - Where, on the internet?

02:11:15   I'll have you know I have dozens of views on my videos.

02:11:18   Dozens.

02:11:19   Dozens of us.

02:11:20   Do you really like put these online somewhere?

02:11:24   I have a YouTube channel.

02:11:25   It's been mentioned on this show before.

02:11:26   You were here.

02:11:27   Yes, yes.

02:11:28   Even I knew that and I have no memory.

02:11:29   There it is.

02:11:30   Use a Syracuse.

02:11:31   There you go.

02:11:32   Yeah, that's you or somebody who's posing as you and also plays Destiny.

02:11:36   Mm-hmm.

02:11:37   Whoa.

02:11:38   And plays Destiny just the way I play it.

02:11:40   Let me tell you, the videos are action-packed.

02:11:42   113 views.

02:11:44   Yeah, that's right.

02:11:45   Wow.

02:11:46   Oh, you have a lot here.

02:11:47   I've been doing it for a while, since Destiny 1.

02:11:50   You know, you're going to have to edit out all the times I mentioned Grey, because I

02:11:53   think there are times that he actually does listen to this show, and I don't know what

02:11:57   I said about him.

02:11:58   It was all intended to be--

02:11:59   He can handle it.

02:12:00   He can handle it.

02:12:01   He's a big boy.

02:12:02   It was all intended to be complimentary, but--

02:12:04   If he's smart, he'll pounce on me for using the phrase "lose the plot" and say, "Haha,

02:12:08   now you're using Britishisms."

02:12:10   Actually, that's true.

02:12:11   He'll jump on it straight away.

02:12:12   That's right.

02:12:13   - His first videos were crap too.

02:12:15   He just didn't publish them, or maybe he did.

02:12:17   I think, who mentioned on an old HI episode

02:12:20   that you have to keep your first really crappy video

02:12:22   in your channel and you can't delete it.

02:12:24   - No, and that's the thing.

02:12:26   You're comparing yourself to somebody

02:12:27   who's been doing this for years.

02:12:28   - Oh, totally. - And so everyone

02:12:29   starts out crappy, and if you only make one video a year,

02:12:33   you're gonna be crappy for a long time.

02:12:35   If you do it, if you make this a new thing

02:12:37   that you do on a regular basis,

02:12:38   you have a much better chance of getting better over time.

02:12:41   - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

02:12:42   And again, this is me telling myself

02:12:45   this is much anything else, don't focus on the gear.

02:12:48   The gear is not your problem.

02:12:50   You can do everything you need with an iPhone.

02:12:53   That's it, that's all you need.

02:12:54   Everything else is bonus.

02:12:56   Like, it'd be nice to have a little bit better audio input.

02:13:00   It's a little closer to your mouth

02:13:01   if you're gonna be on camera.

02:13:02   Otherwise, you don't really need that much.

02:13:05   You don't think about the hundreds of dollars

02:13:08   audio interface and stuff, you don't need it.

02:13:10   Also, you already own one.

02:13:11   but you don't need it.

02:13:13   Like you only, the content of the video,

02:13:18   the video footage itself, the writing of the video,

02:13:23   the timing and the editing and the cutting

02:13:26   and what you're saying is way more important

02:13:29   than the equipment you have.

02:13:30   And the fact is, the iPhone that you already will have anyway

02:13:35   is the best video camera in the world

02:13:37   for this type of thing most of the time.

02:13:40   Not all the time, you can have specialized things

02:13:42   and pros and everything, but if you wanna just make a video

02:13:46   as a newcomer to the field, just use your iPhone.

02:13:48   It has everything you need built in.

02:13:50   You already own it, spend zero dollars,

02:13:52   just use the iPhone.

02:13:53   - Yeah, and so the stuff I did, I did with a GoPro,

02:13:56   an old GoPro that I borrowed from work, and my iPhone.

02:14:00   And there are a couple of things,

02:14:01   like I'll do voiceovers with a good mic,

02:14:03   which is going to be jarring because it's gonna be

02:14:05   so much better than the stuff I filmed live, but whatever.

02:14:10   But, and I recorded the exhaust note a couple of times

02:14:12   with my good mic, just to get a really good, you know,

02:14:15   like the beginning of this preview is actually the exhaust,

02:14:19   as recorded with the mic I'm speaking to you with now,

02:14:21   which I'm sure is wrong in some way or another,

02:14:23   because it's probably not the right mic for it,

02:14:24   but whatever.

02:14:26   - No, it's not wrong, just your mic is not filled

02:14:27   with exhaust.

02:14:29   - Yeah, I mean, whatever, smells good, right?

02:14:32   But you see, it was like a GoPro and an iPhone,

02:14:35   and my podcasting mic, to your point,

02:14:38   I am 98% of the way there.

02:14:40   The only problem I haven't really solved for

02:14:43   is when the iPhone is several feet away from my body

02:14:47   and I'm doing a live discussion.

02:14:50   And by that I mean I'm recording both video and audio

02:14:53   and I'm going to keep both the video and the audio.

02:14:55   That's the thing I haven't solved for.

02:14:57   And that's what's gonna sound like garbage in this video

02:14:59   unless I overdub or whatever the term is that actors do.

02:15:02   If I dub over myself and try to record--

02:15:05   - AVR. (laughs)

02:15:06   - Whatever it is, yeah.

02:15:07   So I try to match my exact delivery that I did at the time, but I do it with my podcast

02:15:14   mic and I don't think I'm capable of it.

02:15:16   I'll probably give it a shot just to see if it gets even close, but I don't think

02:15:19   I'm able to.

02:15:20   It won't work.

02:15:21   That's incredibly hard.

02:15:22   I think you have to be a very experienced actor probably to be able to have any chance

02:15:26   of doing that well.

02:15:27   Oh, I'm sure you're right.

02:15:28   Yeah.

02:15:29   You should get Declan to dub over you because that would make a good video.

02:15:34   - I'm assuming you're overdubbing Quadrifoglio

02:15:37   with a Vitici thing.

02:15:39   - Yeah, every time.

02:15:39   - I haven't done it yet.

02:15:41   I haven't done it yet, but I plan to do it

02:15:42   at least the first time.

02:15:43   - It's like slow down the video slightly,

02:15:45   like match it up so you'll look all weird.

02:15:47   No, I mean, it's like the secret to good audio

02:15:50   for this purpose, like you can get into

02:15:52   integrated details, but basically none of them matter

02:15:55   as much as get a mic close to your mouth.

02:15:59   And it matters way less what that mic is,

02:16:02   how good it is, like just get something

02:16:03   that can be close to your mouth,

02:16:05   'cause even a really good mic,

02:16:07   even if you get a really nice fancy shotgun mic

02:16:09   that's made for this purpose,

02:16:11   it does not sound nearly as good

02:16:13   as a cheap lavalier next to your face.

02:16:15   - Well, and the stop gap that I used,

02:16:18   which you're going to yell at me for, and you're right,

02:16:20   is I used actually one of my AirPods.

02:16:22   So I have one AirPod in my ear,

02:16:24   and that was what the audio was for.

02:16:25   And it sounds like a telephone call, which is okay,

02:16:30   but it's a lot better than me,

02:16:31   because the phone was probably 10 feet away

02:16:34   for a lot of the stuff that I filmed.

02:16:35   And so, left with just the phone mic,

02:16:38   it would have been nothing but wind

02:16:40   and a dim, faint version of me.

02:16:43   And so, it was the best I could do

02:16:44   without spending any money.

02:16:46   But I can tell you right now that if this gets posted,

02:16:50   which I intend to post it,

02:16:52   I guarantee that I'm gonna get a bunch of complaints

02:16:54   about the audio.

02:16:54   And they're gonna be fair,

02:16:55   because the audio is gonna sound like garbage

02:16:57   for the stuff that I filmed, quote, unquote, in person.

02:16:59   - But it doesn't matter.

02:17:01   - I know, and that's why I'm just rolling with it.

02:17:02   - Just focus on it for next time.

02:17:03   And one thing you can do that's probably

02:17:05   your cheapest option really,

02:17:06   without having to buy much of anything,

02:17:08   you're gonna have to buy probably a wired lavalier mic.

02:17:12   That's fine, they're really cheap.

02:17:14   They're like under 50 bucks for a even halfway decent

02:17:18   wired lavalier.

02:17:20   And what I suggest you do is plug it into something

02:17:22   that can record the audio separately from the video,

02:17:24   that way you don't have to worry about that,

02:17:25   and then you can sync it up in Final Cut.

02:17:28   You can sync up the audio, I think automatically,

02:17:30   with the video, or somehow it syncs up.

02:17:32   There's a way to do that.

02:17:34   And the good thing, and you're doing such short clips

02:17:36   that drift is not gonna be a noticeable problem

02:17:38   in the time duration that you're doing.

02:17:41   The other thing I would say is one thing to consider

02:17:43   for what is recording that thing, it can be an old iPhone.

02:17:48   A second one, if you don't have a long enough--

02:17:51   - Oh, interesting point, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:17:53   - If you don't have a long enough eighth inch cable

02:17:55   to a lightning adapter, to a dongle

02:17:57   to fit into the new iPhone, just use an iPhone 5

02:18:00   and run voice memos as you plug in a wired lavalier

02:18:04   to its headphone jack that's compatible with it.

02:18:06   Like that's a thing you can do too,

02:18:08   because all iPhones can be audio recorders.

02:18:11   So like that's gonna be better than what you have now.

02:18:14   Like it's gonna be easier.

02:18:16   The other thing, or you know,

02:18:16   you can get something like a Zoom H1,

02:18:19   which is like this little tiny thing you could like,

02:18:21   I mean it's not invisible,

02:18:24   but you could like put it in a shirt pocket at least,

02:18:27   or somewhere near your mouth

02:18:28   that is nearer than an iPhone,

02:18:30   and it's kind of like a standalone recorder.

02:18:33   You can also run a wired lavalier into an H1's line-in jack.

02:18:37   That's a thing a lot of people do.

02:18:39   So there's lots of options here that range from free,

02:18:43   because you already have the stuff,

02:18:45   to under 100 bucks.

02:18:48   And you can go crazy, you can go way higher than that,

02:18:50   but you don't need to.

02:18:51   Like, don't even, I would even say just don't.

02:18:54   Don't mess with that, because it's so much more important

02:18:57   to get the other basics right.

02:19:00   This is where I went totally wrong with mine.

02:19:02   Like, I got the fancy camera and the fancy tripod

02:19:05   and I even bought like an iPad teleprompting mount.

02:19:08   - I thought about doing that, yeah, yeah.

02:19:10   - So I could use Joe Cieplinski's Teleprompt Plus

02:19:13   in there, like I got all this crazy stuff

02:19:17   so I could like have teleprompters

02:19:18   so I could be looking at the camera

02:19:19   while I'm reading my text instead of looking off screen

02:19:21   at my laptop with the notes on it and everything.

02:19:22   Like, I got this crazy setup

02:19:24   and I ended up using most of it zero times

02:19:27   or one time to make a mediocre video

02:19:29   and I didn't make a video after that.

02:19:31   If I make videos again, I'm going to instead

02:19:34   just use my iPhone in the gimbal

02:19:37   that I also bought for some reason.

02:19:39   I'm just gonna use it in that and shoot myself

02:19:42   and maybe I'll have a lavalier mic

02:19:45   to give myself better audio but that's as far as I would go

02:19:48   probably in that department just because

02:19:51   if I'm going to make videos again,

02:19:53   what I need is to make the process lower friction

02:19:56   so I do it more.

02:19:58   And the only way I'm gonna do that

02:19:59   is by making it basically all iPhone

02:20:01   and making it informal.

02:20:03   Basically making it like Periscope or Instagram Live.

02:20:06   'Cause I had no problem doing those

02:20:09   'cause they were informal and all iPhone-based.

02:20:11   So I just need to do that, right?

02:20:13   And so you need to find out what that is for you.

02:20:15   Find out how to make yourself do more videos

02:20:19   so that you can get better at making videos

02:20:20   so that when you get an opportunity like this,

02:20:22   you can do the kind that you actually wanna do.

02:20:24   The only equipment I'm currently planning to buy, if any, is a lavalier mic of some

02:20:30   sort and maybe a gimbal. And that's it. That's all I feel like I really need at this point,

02:20:34   because I can borrow a GoPro from work or there's a possibility that a listener might have an

02:20:40   actually similar generation one that they're not using anymore. So he had offered to send it to me.

02:20:47   So I have a GoPro, I'll have my phone, maybe like some sort of mount that I can mount between

02:20:55   the headrests, like if I get really serious, something that I can mount the GoPro to between

02:21:00   the headrests, because basically the only mount I have right now is the suction cup

02:21:03   mount, which is great for taking video of me, but less great for taking video of what's

02:21:08   going out the front of the car.

02:21:11   But anyway, the point is, I agree with you that there's very little I intend to spend

02:21:17   money on unless I have a compelling reason to which is to say things are going well.

02:21:22   And if things are going well, then great, why not throw money at it?

02:21:26   But if things are as I expect, which is to say it was a fun blip on the radar for me

02:21:31   and the people that care about me, then whatever.

02:21:33   [BEEPING]

02:21:36   [ Silence ]