225: A Conversation with Siri


00:00:00   [APPLAUSE]

00:00:02   Hey, everybody.

00:00:08   Hello.

00:00:08   This is wild.

00:00:10   A little bit.

00:00:11   This is a lot of people, but that's cool.

00:00:14   So thanks, everyone, for coming.

00:00:16   This is super awesome.

00:00:17   And thank you again to the AltConf people

00:00:19   for making this all happen.

00:00:21   This is really, really great.

00:00:22   And we don't really have an agenda here,

00:00:24   because this is the Accidental Tech Podcast.

00:00:26   So I think you had something you wanted

00:00:28   to discuss with the group.

00:00:29   - Well, I just have format notes.

00:00:31   (audience laughing)

00:00:34   How many people in this room regularly listen

00:00:37   to the live stream?

00:00:38   Well, anyway, if you listen to the live stream,

00:00:40   and for everyone else, you listen to the downloaded podcast,

00:00:43   it's edited, and during the live stream,

00:00:44   we just do a bunch of stuff,

00:00:45   and then Marco turns it into a show.

00:00:47   And so we're gonna do a bunch of stuff here,

00:00:50   including listening to Marco do an Ed Reads live,

00:00:52   which is always fun.

00:00:53   But I have a format question for all three of us,

00:00:56   which I didn't mention before,

00:00:57   but at some point during this show, during this recording,

00:01:00   Marco's gonna hit a button

00:01:01   that's gonna play our theme song.

00:01:04   What happens after that?

00:01:05   (laughing)

00:01:07   - So, this has been, I've been kind of postponing

00:01:10   thinking about this.

00:01:12   Mike had a good idea of why don't we have the audience

00:01:15   sing the theme song along.

00:01:16   (cheering)

00:01:19   This is exactly the kind of thing

00:01:21   that would be totally way too mortifying

00:01:24   for the three of us to do.

00:01:25   But there's a whole room of people here who might feel differently.

00:01:29   So I think that's how we should solve that.

00:01:31   Alright, but after the song, then what happens?

00:01:34   We talk about cars.

00:01:35   Then we keep talking.

00:01:36   But do they file out while we talk about cars?

00:01:39   Hi everybody.

00:01:41   We'll figure it out when we get there.

00:01:42   That's the other question. I'm afraid to ask this, but I'm going to now.

00:01:45   How many people know what happens on the podcast after the theme song?

00:01:50   That's most people.

00:01:52   - Is anybody not raising their hand?

00:01:54   People don't know what happens.

00:01:56   Snapchalk.

00:01:56   (audience laughing)

00:01:58   Alright, I got it.

00:02:00   What I'm getting at is I don't know how we're gonna end

00:02:02   this podcast, like literally I don't know how we're gonna

00:02:04   end it because we just kind of tail off

00:02:06   in the actual recording.

00:02:07   Anyway, this is all pre-show.

00:02:09   What you're hearing now, this is called pre-show

00:02:10   and this is the stuff that we do while we're trying

00:02:12   to figure out when we're gonna record.

00:02:13   Anyway, I think I got that in my system.

00:02:14   You have any more pre-show stuff?

00:02:16   - Let's get on with the show.

00:02:17   (beeping)

00:02:18   - Oh my word.

00:02:19   (audience applauding)

00:02:22   So, for an accidental tech podcast,

00:02:25   we don't mess around around these parts.

00:02:27   So I spent a lot of money today.

00:02:29   I just thought I'd let everyone know.

00:02:30   - You're not starting with that, you're already off track.

00:02:32   - Well, this is how it works, this is how it works.

00:02:35   This is what we do.

00:02:36   John is so--

00:02:37   - All right, go ahead, you can have your moment.

00:02:39   - Yeah, I bought a MacBook Adorable,

00:02:42   and I'm really excited about that.

00:02:43   So, finally the MacBook Adorable has been updated.

00:02:46   I am very stoked, and I'm really excited for it to arrive

00:02:49   like three freaking weeks because I went all in and got the super fancy one humble brag

00:02:54   not so humble brag whatever and I'm really excited that that happened and that's really

00:02:58   all I care about and oh yeah iPad stuff happened and we can I guess we're done.

00:03:01   I love that you are the only it's like you ever see the pictures of the highways when

00:03:06   a place is being evacuated for a hurricane and you see like there's like all the people

00:03:10   going one direction and there's one car going the other way like this is the entire rest

00:03:17   of the universe right now is like oh my god, iPad productivity, this is the future, they

00:03:22   basically made it the Mac, asterisk, asterisk, so we're going there and you're like yeah

00:03:28   you know what this is the perfect time to stop using my iPad. I know this is great!

00:03:32   Finally! Where is Federico? I don't know where he is but I'm so sorry buddy. I don't think

00:03:37   this is going to put a damper on his day. No, not at all. I don't think that's possible.

00:03:41   Alright so we gotta get this show on the road, I should stop distracting everyone. So today

00:03:45   Today is the first day of WWDC.

00:03:48   The keynote was just a few hours ago.

00:03:50   I don't know when Mark will get the chance to release this as a proper version of the

00:03:53   episode or a proper version of the show.

00:03:55   Tonight, I'm dedicated.

00:03:56   Oh, that's intense.

00:03:57   Well, I'm not staying up that late, but I don't ever get involved with that anyway because

00:04:00   I'm a big diva.

00:04:01   Anyhow, the keynote was today.

00:04:05   The keynote was today and it was quick.

00:04:09   They set a really high bar for us getting through this show quickly, which is something

00:04:13   that the three of us are entirely incapable of doing.

00:04:17   So this is going to be a little bit interesting.

00:04:19   - Well this is gonna be like a John Godfather situation

00:04:23   where like the commentary is probably gonna be--

00:04:25   - I was Goodfellas, not the Godfather.

00:04:26   (audience laughing)

00:04:30   - Of course it was, of course.

00:04:32   - Yeah, but this keynote was like a speed run.

00:04:34   Like at first Kevin Lynch was up there

00:04:35   and he was going fast, I thought maybe

00:04:37   because he was nervous, but everybody went really fast

00:04:39   because they had so much stuff.

00:04:40   And I guess we're gonna go through it in keynote order,

00:04:43   which means like the exciting things are at the end because they save them to the end. So we

00:04:46   have a bunch of unexciting things in the beginning. >> So, TV OS. So I have a question. Was the OS

00:04:52   or any part of the OS actually mentioned? Or actually changed? Because a content deal is not

00:05:01   the OS. As far as I can tell the OS is unchanged. >> Did you watch State of the Union? They

00:05:07   showed one slide that showed that they had some new things for helping, I don't know, they had

00:05:10   bunch of icons that made me think they added some more navigation stuff. But anyway, nothing

00:05:14   new in TV that we care about, right? Well, the funny thing is, back six months ago, before

00:05:18   I knew that the Grand Tour was a pile of garbage, I would have been super amped to have Amazon

00:05:23   Prime Video on the Apple TV. And as it turns out... There's still Man in the High Castle,

00:05:27   there's good shows on Amazon. Yeah, well, either way, all I cared about was the Grand

00:05:31   Tour and now it's just a disaster. So, I mean, I'm excited, I guess. This is perhaps the

00:05:36   the damn breaking, which is really exciting,

00:05:38   but I don't know, TV OS, meh, so let's move on.

00:05:41   Watch OS was next, right?

00:05:43   - And there wasn't that much more there.

00:05:45   There was a little bit of new stuff in Watch OS.

00:05:47   I think it's interesting, you know,

00:05:48   like I was kind of predicting that this would be

00:05:49   like a kind of a quiet year for those two.

00:05:51   And I think that mostly panned out.

00:05:52   Most of my other predictions were horrendously wrong,

00:05:54   but this one I think I actually got.

00:05:55   - Siri everywhere, I thought you were on the right track

00:05:57   'cause they're like, oh, the Siri watch face,

00:05:59   we really are gonna see Siri everywhere.

00:06:01   - So the watch, I'm like, okay, the watch is computer.

00:06:05   like you can make it be anything,

00:06:07   you can make it show anything.

00:06:08   You can give it the intelligence to say,

00:06:10   I don't always want to have set at the bottom

00:06:13   if I occasionally want a timer down there,

00:06:15   but when a timer's running, I want it to be on screen.

00:06:18   And so they have this potential since day one

00:06:20   of the watch to be like, we can make it smart.

00:06:23   It's a smart watch, so we can only show stuff

00:06:25   that you need to care about at that moment.

00:06:26   But it's mostly been unrealized on the watch face

00:06:28   as they've been pretty much static,

00:06:30   like you could make multiple ones now with three,

00:06:32   but the complications you would set up

00:06:35   would be pretty much fixed, and it wasn't actually

00:06:38   being very smart about that.

00:06:40   So now they make a face where they actually

00:06:42   make something smart, but it's only on that face?

00:06:45   Like you can't just put a smart complication

00:06:48   as like the big bottom one in some of the other faces

00:06:51   or anything like that.

00:06:52   Why, it's a good step to get smarter,

00:06:55   but why is it only on that one

00:06:57   kind of interestingly designed face?

00:06:59   - Yeah, I thought when they were showing that segment,

00:07:00   it's like, oh, you're gonna be able to swipe

00:07:02   your complications or make your own smart face

00:07:04   different times of day but no you're right it's just all one face and all

00:07:07   Siri focused it doesn't even look like a watch and I don't know I mean I maybe

00:07:11   it's just a start to this I for a brief moment I thought they were gonna say

00:07:14   third-party watch faces yes I thought it was for like eight seconds there was a

00:07:18   little glimmer of hope at the beginning there yeah yeah I thought your worlds

00:07:21   were gonna collide Marco where you have watches and and you can make your own

00:07:25   face and you can make it as fancy as you wanted you know because your watch is

00:07:28   not very smart I don't know if for those who aren't here he's wearing a proper

00:07:31   mechanical watch so yours is not a very intelligent watch.

00:07:35   - It's a feature watch.

00:07:36   - It's a feature.

00:07:37   (laughter)

00:07:39   - Yeah, but it's, you know, I do want the watch

00:07:42   to take advantage of the fact that it's a computer.

00:07:44   And they clearly, they now are considering things

00:07:47   like the intelligence of the face by making the Siri face

00:07:50   that's more dynamic with what it's showing you,

00:07:52   but they didn't take it far enough.

00:07:53   So maybe in the future they will, I hope they do.

00:07:55   - They did a lot of workout stuff,

00:07:56   like because I think they're recognizing the watch

00:07:58   as mostly a fitness related thing,

00:07:59   - Yeah, I think a lot of room is for workouts,

00:08:01   getting rid of frustrations in terms of like,

00:08:04   I want to, I found my own middle of a workout,

00:08:05   but I want to pause the music and stuff like that.

00:08:07   So those seem like smart focus features.

00:08:10   And the lap swimming in the pool,

00:08:13   that's pretty esoteric in the grand scheme of things.

00:08:16   - I liked the, they had said that they were going to do

00:08:18   like monthly based reminders or something like that.

00:08:20   Like, hey, if you are near the end of the month

00:08:23   and if you move the next three,

00:08:25   you hit your move goal the next three days,

00:08:26   you will get your move goal for the whole month.

00:08:28   And I think that's kind of neat,

00:08:29   Because I pay some amount of attention to my rings, and you know, not all of us are

00:08:33   just innately a blue ring stud like me.

00:08:36   So for you guys, I'm sure that this is pretty important for your blue rings.

00:08:40   But I thought that was really cool.

00:08:42   And I think that a lot of these things were typical evolutionary improvements, but as

00:08:47   always with Apple, or mostly with Apple, they were not revolutionary.

00:08:50   But the watch looked good.

00:08:52   And it was early in the keynote, so they didn't talk about all of the things that annoy you.

00:08:55   Like if you wipe your watch or unpair it,

00:08:57   you lose all your data and sometimes you stand

00:09:00   every hour during a day but it doesn't give you

00:09:02   your stand ring because it doesn't like you.

00:09:04   Like I always want a mulligan feature

00:09:07   where it'll be like, oh come on, I get one mulligan per day

00:09:09   and I can say I totally stood that hour.

00:09:11   Anyway, that's next year for watchOS 5 I guess.

00:09:15   - I also have a small concern with the activity reminders

00:09:18   that right now when you get a watch on default settings,

00:09:21   there is increasingly more health and fitness type things

00:09:24   that it bugs you about every so often.

00:09:26   And I wonder if they push that too far,

00:09:29   like they had to breathe last year and everything,

00:09:30   if they push that too far, people will turn those off.

00:09:33   And I feel like they're really on the edge

00:09:35   of that right now.

00:09:36   - Well, to some degree it's all about

00:09:38   the way the person perceives it, right?

00:09:41   Because to you it's frustrating and annoying,

00:09:43   and especially with breathe, I agree with you.

00:09:45   But otherwise, I think that most of these reminders

00:09:47   are kind of nice.

00:09:48   And I'd like to try to get reminded

00:09:50   from something external to myself,

00:09:53   "Hey, get off your lazy butt and move a little bit.

00:09:55   "You've been writing code for the last six hours.

00:09:57   "Maybe you should go, I don't know,

00:09:58   "get a drink of water or something."

00:10:00   And so for me, I actually think it's really cool,

00:10:02   again, with the breathe accepted,

00:10:03   because I don't dig that at all.

00:10:04   - I breathe during the keynote.

00:10:06   (audience laughing)

00:10:07   Did you stand at 50 minutes?

00:10:08   - Yeah, exactly.

00:10:09   No, not so much.

00:10:11   All right, so anything else on watch?

00:10:13   - Nope.

00:10:14   (upbeat music)

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00:11:17   (upbeat music)

00:11:20   - Nailed it, well done, sir.

00:11:22   (audience applauding)

00:11:23   That's how you do.

00:11:26   I've done this a few times.

00:11:27   Well, so for those that don't listen to the live broadcast,

00:11:30   when Marco used to do the reads during the live broadcast--

00:11:33   - It was a train wreck.

00:11:34   - It was not a train wreck, but it was--

00:11:36   - Had your good days and bad.

00:11:38   - There were occasional derailments of a minor variety,

00:11:41   so are there really minor train derailments?

00:11:43   Anyway, so--

00:11:44   (audience laughing)

00:11:45   So speaking of derailing trains, High Sierra?

00:11:49   What is that?

00:11:51   I mean, come on.

00:11:53   I mean, we'll get to this later, but what do you think

00:11:55   is the worst name?

00:11:56   High Sierra or HomePod?

00:11:58   Oh, High Sierra.

00:11:59   I think they're both fine.

00:12:01   I thought they were going to call it Sierra Nevada,

00:12:03   but High Sierra is fine.

00:12:04   That's a thing.

00:12:05   But Casey didn't know it was a thing either.

00:12:06   But it is a place and a thing.

00:12:08   And wasn't there a High Sierra volume format or CD-ROM

00:12:11   standard?

00:12:12   This is where you were in the live chat room and someone else.

00:12:15   [LAUGHTER]

00:12:16   Nobody know old people?

00:12:18   Some kind of CD-ROM, Mount Rainier kind of standard.

00:12:21   Yeah, yeah.

00:12:21   I see.

00:12:22   Anyway.

00:12:23   I thought the dad jokes leading up to it,

00:12:25   like I'm a sucker for a good dad joke.

00:12:27   So that was fine.

00:12:27   Whatever.

00:12:28   But then I was expecting Craig to be like, oh, ha, ha, no,

00:12:30   really.

00:12:30   No, it's called something else.

00:12:31   And that never happened.

00:12:34   It took me about a minute before I realized it wasn't a joke.

00:12:37   Yeah, exactly.

00:12:38   I really thought that Craig was going, oh, ha, ha, I'm so funny.

00:12:40   I'm such a good guy.

00:12:41   And really, it's called Yosemite plus plus or whatever.

00:12:45   Anyways, and so as it turns out,

00:12:47   they're rolling with the High Sierra.

00:12:49   And on the surface, I thought the loose drug references

00:12:54   were kind of funny as a gag.

00:12:57   But when you're introducing the new version of your OS

00:13:00   with all of these drug references

00:13:02   and are like, no, really, this is it, that just--

00:13:04   I don't know.

00:13:05   That's a little weird to me.

00:13:06   But the OS looks good.

00:13:08   So there's that.

00:13:10   - Yeah, this is kind of, we were complaining about

00:13:11   they keep having to revise Mac OS every year

00:13:13   and we're like, you should slow down the pace.

00:13:15   This is them slowing down the pace.

00:13:16   They'll have a marketing release this year,

00:13:17   but the number of features they're adding,

00:13:18   I mean, this could practically be a point release.

00:13:21   Like, doesn't look like there's a lot of new stuff in it,

00:13:24   or at the very least, not a lot of new stuff

00:13:25   they talked about.

00:13:26   Obviously, APFS, which is--

00:13:28   (bell dings)

00:13:28   (audience applauds)

00:13:31   The most important feature of the operating system,

00:13:36   as we all know.

00:13:37   They didn't go into detail on it,

00:13:37   But they did do the one demo that you can do with the file cloning, which is not really

00:13:42   that impressive if you understand what's going on under the covers, but whatever.

00:13:49   What they didn't show basically was is APFS faster than HFS Plus?

00:13:52   Like if you do some big operation to a lot of files, either just using straight POSIX

00:13:57   APIs or in your app, is it actually faster than HFS?

00:14:00   Maybe it's not or maybe it's a wash, but if you're taking advantage of features that only

00:14:04   the APS has, obviously it's going to look good.

00:14:07   So that was fine.

00:14:09   You might not watch the State of the Union, Marco, because you're busy getting ready over

00:14:12   here, but there was kind of a sad note about Mac OS Sierra and 32-bit app support.

00:14:18   Scary, sad note, because I think of how many 32-bit apps I have on my Mac, and I have a

00:14:22   lot, and I bet everybody has a lot.

00:14:24   And unlike iOS apps, I have little hope that if 32-bit support goes away, that all those

00:14:29   app developers, A, are even still developing those apps, and B, will update them all to

00:14:34   64-bit versions.

00:14:35   So they said 32-bit apps is not going away in High Sierra, but in the one after that,

00:14:41   probably we're going to yell at you if you try to launch it.

00:14:44   We're wishy-washy about it, but bottom line is 32-bit apps are not long for this world

00:14:48   in macOS in the next year or two.

00:14:49   But hold on, though.

00:14:50   Was that just the App Store?

00:14:51   Because I don't remember...

00:14:52   That's the OS.

00:14:54   My impression is that that's the OS.

00:14:55   We just came from the State of the Union, so we didn't have time to research those.

00:14:58   - People in the audience are nodding, that means I'm right.

00:15:00   - And their wording was like,

00:15:02   this would be the last release where you can do it

00:15:03   without big problems, right?

00:15:05   So maybe they'll do some kind of virtualization layer thing

00:15:08   or an emulation layer like Rosetta later on down the road.

00:15:10   - Or even they'll just say,

00:15:11   this app may make your Mac slower like they do on iOS

00:15:14   when you watch 32-bit apps now.

00:15:15   - As it pages in all the 32-bit libraries

00:15:17   to actually run the app.

00:15:19   I'm guessing they'll have some kind of patchwork solution

00:15:22   because it wouldn't be that hard for them to do it.

00:15:25   They already have all the libraries in it

00:15:27   They could do like a VM kind of like emulation mode for those apps and just yell at you with dialogue boxes telling you that your

00:15:32   Computer is not performing very well. You know we skip Safari, and I don't think there's a lot to say about it

00:15:37   But I'm super excited about the changes. They've made I mean autoplay video blocking. That's awesome

00:15:42   How long do you think I'll take people to defeat that well can we at least be positive for a moment?

00:15:46   All right fine. Come on, man, but no that that's exciting. I forget what else was in Safari, but but it's faster

00:15:52   It's really fast. It's always fast

00:15:53   - Oh yeah, the intelligent tracking prevention,

00:15:56   which sounds like some kind of algorithm to detect

00:15:58   whether to block third party cookies on ads,

00:16:00   which is pretty cool by default, that's nice.

00:16:01   Like it's kind of like a half ad blocker step.

00:16:04   Maybe they would also block things

00:16:06   that are the more invisible kind of trackers

00:16:08   that you don't necessarily see,

00:16:10   the kind of massive three megabytes of includes

00:16:13   that most of these websites have now.

00:16:15   So maybe this is kind of them building in an ad blocker

00:16:18   by default like as a baby step,

00:16:20   and they probably would never go out and say,

00:16:22   we're blocking all your ads

00:16:23   that people might sue them, but this is something like,

00:16:24   well, our browser just decides not to load

00:16:26   your JavaScript sometimes.

00:16:27   They might get a bit of-- - I think they're loading them,

00:16:28   I think they're just trying to make you less trackable.

00:16:30   My guess, I mean, we'll have to go to the sessions

00:16:31   about this, but they're randomizing identifiable information.

00:16:34   I don't think they're randomizing your user agent string,

00:16:36   but they could be randomizing some stuff

00:16:37   that people use to pin you down,

00:16:39   like exposing whatever APIs they use to get,

00:16:41   I don't know if they can get you at your battery level

00:16:43   like they do on the phone or whatever,

00:16:44   but making you appear to be a different phone when you aren't.

00:16:48   So they're not blocking the ads, they emphasize that,

00:16:50   but they don't want people to get mad at them,

00:16:51   but they are just making you less trackable,

00:16:53   which is just good.

00:16:55   I don't know if it's on iOS too, but I would assume so.

00:16:57   The only other thing I wanna talk about in macOS,

00:16:59   I don't wanna talk about the photo stuff

00:17:01   'cause I don't think there was that much there,

00:17:02   we need to move on, maybe we'll circle back to it,

00:17:03   but the part where they talk about graphics,

00:17:05   I'm like, oh, this is it,

00:17:06   they're gonna upgrade to OpenGL support

00:17:08   and they're gonna have Vulkan, it's gonna be awesome,

00:17:10   and Nvidia GPUs are gonna be in the new Mac Pro next year,

00:17:13   but no, so they're doubling down on Metal,

00:17:17   which is good, it's their thing, it's fine,

00:17:19   But I think by them talking so heavily about Metal

00:17:22   is kind of them saying, we're never gonna do Vulkan.

00:17:25   We're just doing Metal and that's our thing.

00:17:29   And if you don't, because they got engine support.

00:17:30   They got Unity and Unreal and so they don't,

00:17:33   I think they're not hurting from the lack of Vulkan support.

00:17:36   We're just fine, I suppose.

00:17:37   I'll take what I can get.

00:17:38   But that was one fake out in the Mac OS section for me.

00:17:41   - Yeah, I will briefly say though,

00:17:43   because there isn't that much to talk about with photos,

00:17:45   this is pretty fast.

00:17:46   They added syncing of the metadata stuff.

00:17:48   That's awesome.

00:17:49   That's the one huge glaring hole from last year,

00:17:52   as you mentioned last week.

00:17:53   That was the one big hole in the feature set

00:17:56   that they needed to plug.

00:17:58   So that way our devices aren't hot for the first two days

00:18:01   after we get a new one or restore it.

00:18:03   That's a huge thing that we mentioned last year.

00:18:05   It's going to be hot when it downloads.

00:18:06   When it downloads, it syncs the data.

00:18:08   So syncing is good.

00:18:09   And you won't have to recompute it,

00:18:11   but you will have to pull it down.

00:18:12   Hopefully the progress bar for pulling it down will be better.

00:18:14   And related to that-- and we don't

00:18:15   have a separate section for iCloud,

00:18:16   but it's worth talking about here--

00:18:18   - On one of the slides, there's a thing that said like,

00:18:20   family storage plans for iCloud storage.

00:18:22   - Yeah.

00:18:23   - Which is one tiny step closer to family photo libraries,

00:18:25   because if we have family storage,

00:18:27   like a family plan on a cell phone thing,

00:18:28   we pay for a certain amount for the whole family,

00:18:30   and you share it in some way,

00:18:31   that's a great place to put a family photo library,

00:18:34   not this year.

00:18:35   - Mail got some improvements, that's pretty good.

00:18:38   I actually think mail.app is fine,

00:18:41   don't throw tomatoes at me please.

00:18:42   - So do I.

00:18:42   - I mean, it's fine for me, it works,

00:18:44   I'm not a super productivity guru that needs

00:18:47   whatever the fancy mail app of the minute is,

00:18:49   like a lot of you guys probably are.

00:18:51   I'd just want more than one mail app if you're a fancy mail.

00:18:53   Yeah, that's true.

00:18:54   So yeah, so--

00:18:55   I've just long ago given up on ever being

00:18:56   able to search my mail in iOS.

00:18:58   Well, and supposedly that's getting better.

00:18:59   It's going to take up a lot less space, et cetera, et cetera.

00:19:01   Not on iOS.

00:19:02   Yeah, well, that's true.

00:19:04   And then there's this new HEVC codec, which is H.265.

00:19:08   That's kind of cool.

00:19:09   Oh, yeah.

00:19:10   It's nice that they're bringing support down,

00:19:12   like hardware support, to some existing hardware,

00:19:15   but if not, have software support.

00:19:17   So that'll really help.

00:19:18   And them converting everything internally,

00:19:20   like anything that they make will use their, you know,

00:19:22   the H.265 and their new image container format

00:19:25   and everything, that's all really smart

00:19:27   and will make everybody happy.

00:19:29   - And then the beginnings of your good day,

00:19:32   they said that you can use external GPUs.

00:19:34   So you can play games and do whatever things you need

00:19:38   this ridiculous GPU for with an external GPU.

00:19:41   So that's exciting, right?

00:19:42   - Yeah, like there was like a dev kit they were giving you.

00:19:46   - That was a huge surprise,

00:19:47   like that the first bit of new hardware

00:19:49   Apple announced was an external GPU.

00:19:51   - Yeah, well so here's what I wanna see

00:19:52   from them for real commitment.

00:19:53   This is like, oh, you know, this will let you

00:19:55   use higher powered GPUs on your laptops

00:19:56   and turn it into kind of the Mac Pro

00:19:58   that we're not yet introducing, right?

00:20:00   But are they gonna ship a product?

00:20:01   I want official Apple support,

00:20:03   a thing that I can plug a GPU into.

00:20:04   I don't know, but just like,

00:20:05   oh, it's a third party opportunity, here's a driver,

00:20:07   I hope that company doesn't go out of business.

00:20:08   Like if they're really committed to it,

00:20:09   I wanna see an Apple branded and styled box

00:20:12   that you can put GPUs in that you have official support.

00:20:14   We're just at the beginning, this is just a dev kit,

00:20:16   So we don't know, we don't know what their product story is there.

00:20:18   I hope they have a product story and not just a, no you can't, because they couldn't even,

00:20:21   when they left it to third parties they couldn't even get monitors right with the LG thing.

00:20:24   I don't want them to leave external GPU to third parties and just, you know, good luck.

00:20:29   That seems like an orphan thing.

00:20:30   But yeah, that's, you have the ability to do it with Thunderbolt, people are already

00:20:33   doing it with hacks, right, this is not new.

00:20:35   And then official Apple support is great and step in the right direction.

00:20:38   And then VR was spoken about, which that's kind of cool.

00:20:42   And at least they're acknowledging that VR is a thing.

00:20:44   What was the headset they had with the little dents in it?

00:20:48   Was that the HTC Vive?

00:20:50   Yeah.

00:20:51   They didn't announce Vive Vive.

00:20:53   You make fun of me for mauve and you say vive?

00:20:55   It's pronounced vizel.

00:20:56   I don't know.

00:20:57   I don't have one.

00:20:59   But that's what the picture they used for the graphics with the logo is removed.

00:21:02   They didn't announce like Oculus or HTC supporting Apple stuff.

00:21:05   They did announce like engine support and Steam VR support, but they didn't have like

00:21:08   a hardware VR story.

00:21:11   It's good they have a VR story now instead of like, "No, VR is just not a thing."

00:21:15   But it's not as if they came out and said, "All the major VR hardware and software vendors

00:21:18   are supporting us and VR is the future."

00:21:20   They seem much more heavily into AR.

00:21:23   But still, it is a big step for them to acknowledge that VR is a thing and to acknowledge that

00:21:27   maybe people who create content in the world might want to create content for VR sometime.

00:21:33   So maybe we should ship some computers with some big GPUs in them.

00:21:36   Yeah, or at least better GPUs.

00:21:38   I don't know enough about the Radeon line to know if these are like the super top end.

00:21:43   Being on the current architecture is a nice change, right?

00:21:49   Who'd have thunk it?

00:21:50   We'll see how long that keeps up.

00:21:51   Yeah, they're not going to update the Mac again for another two years.

00:21:54   That'll be fine.

00:21:55   Yeah.

00:21:56   All right, so then we started talking about hardware, but there's something else that's

00:21:59   awesome that we should talk about.

00:22:00   Oh yeah, okay.

00:22:02   (laughing)

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00:23:25   (upbeat music)

00:23:28   Two for three, nicely done.

00:23:31   So we got some iMacs, that's exciting.

00:23:34   They've got fancy new displays, which is cool.

00:23:37   They're on Kaby Lake, gentlemen.

00:23:39   I feel like there should be some sort

00:23:41   of excitement about this.

00:23:43   I'm surprised the room isn't, this is not a demand.

00:23:45   I'm surprised the room isn't erupting in thunderous applause.

00:23:49   It really wasn't a demand, okay.

00:23:51   I'm not that desperate, good God, guys.

00:23:52   - He really isn't that much better.

00:23:54   I mean, it's nice, but it's not.

00:23:55   - But it's more modern, I mean, so that's good.

00:23:57   So, leaving aside the real star of the show as far as the three of us are concerned, I

00:24:03   thought the iMacs looked good.

00:24:04   I mean, it's an improvement, the displays are better, they're faster, more RAM, all

00:24:08   these good things.

00:24:09   I like the fact that they kept USB-A ports on the back, because this is like finally

00:24:12   you have USB-C and Thunderbolt and so on, but they didn't remove all the A ports, because

00:24:15   all that would mean is even more dongles hanging out the back of your iMacs at places where

00:24:19   you can't reach them and the weight of the dongle makes them bend down and everything.

00:24:22   So I'm glad that they did that, and they kept the SD card slot, they'd be like, "No, the

00:24:26   The future is not SD cards, we gotta remove it.

00:24:28   They didn't add anything,

00:24:29   but they didn't take away anything.

00:24:31   So this is a very pragmatic iMac update,

00:24:34   and at least they're differentiating the line

00:24:35   in a way that they don't with the portables.

00:24:37   The larger and bigger and more complicated the computer,

00:24:41   the more you care about legacy ports,

00:24:43   and the less we're gonna try to make it even thinner

00:24:45   and remove all the ports and just tell you

00:24:47   you shouldn't stick SD cards.

00:24:48   If you want an SD card reader, just buy a USB-C hub,

00:24:51   and then put USB-C cable into it,

00:24:53   and then put a card reader into that

00:24:54   with your adapter and your dongle,

00:24:55   and it's like, just give me the slot to put in the back.

00:24:57   So I like those iMacs, they look pretty good.

00:24:59   The screen stuff, did they say the standard iMacs

00:25:02   have better brightness and everything too?

00:25:03   - Yeah, and 10-bit color too.

00:25:05   - They said 10-bit dithering, which I don't know.

00:25:07   - Yeah, right.

00:25:07   - It makes me think that the screen is still not capable of

00:25:10   but that they're gonna dither to get

00:25:11   the different color things, I don't know what that means.

00:25:13   - Maybe, yeah, that's worth clarifying.

00:25:15   - They didn't say anything about image retention, Marcos,

00:25:17   I don't know.

00:25:18   (audience laughing)

00:25:20   Whoops.

00:25:21   - Yeah, and then there are still some spinning platter

00:25:24   - Models, some fusion, fusion drives.

00:25:25   - Yeah, but they're all fusion, like they did, they--

00:25:27   - No, they're not.

00:25:28   The base model 21 inch is still a 5400 RPM spin.

00:25:33   - Really, did you confirm, 'cause they made a big point

00:25:35   of it, that fusion was standard on all models.

00:25:37   - They were very careful to say that all 27 inch

00:25:39   configurators have fusion standards.

00:25:41   - I don't even think they should have fusion drives in there.

00:25:43   There should be SSD everywhere at this point.

00:25:44   - I agree.

00:25:45   - But anyway, they're buying one.

00:25:46   - Fusion should be an option if you want a ton of space,

00:25:48   but it should not, like that's a crutch.

00:25:50   Like they should not be using that.

00:25:52   - I don't know yet if fusion drives are supported

00:25:54   with APFS, like I don't know how that works.

00:25:57   That's like both for conversion,

00:25:59   which wasn't mentioned at all,

00:26:00   and also if you buy one of these things like a year from now

00:26:03   and it comes with a fusion drive,

00:26:04   is the spinning disk part of it APFS?

00:26:06   Does it make a difference?

00:26:07   I don't know.

00:26:08   - I'm shocked that they did not take

00:26:09   the 10 seconds in their key to talk about

00:26:12   file system conversion.

00:26:13   - Well, that's a scary and important step

00:26:16   that everybody has to go through.

00:26:18   - So we talked about, oh my word,

00:26:21   let me talk about the birds and the bees.

00:26:22   - The new iMacs, they bump the GPUs.

00:26:24   They give better GPUs across the line,

00:26:27   which is, a lot of their GPU talk and their graphics talk

00:26:30   is acknowledging a weakness in their entire product line,

00:26:32   that their GPUs are not great,

00:26:34   they're kind of middle of the road, and it hurts them.

00:26:38   And so I don't know if you need them for the VR stuff,

00:26:40   but it's just embarrassing when there are fancy games

00:26:43   that everybody else is playing

00:26:44   that are available for the Mac on Steam,

00:26:46   but people don't wanna play them or can't play them,

00:26:48   or the frame rates are terrible.

00:26:49   It doesn't look good, so I'm glad that they are

00:26:52   making progress in that area, and I didn't look at the pricing. Are they jacking up the

00:26:55   prices compared to the current models based on heavy and better GPU?

00:26:58   I think it's about the same.

00:26:59   Yeah, I mean, they have a place to jack up the prices, and that's the IMAX pro.

00:27:04   Was this where they did the demo of the VR stuff with Star Wars and ILM and all that?

00:27:08   I believe so.

00:27:09   Yeah, because it struck me as I was watching this, like, if you think of everyone on stage,

00:27:14   they all had, like, prompters and had people around them, and presumably they were able

00:27:20   to see like kind of cues of what they were supposed to talk about next. This poor woman,

00:27:24   I don't recall her name, I think I did write it down somewhere but God knows where it was,

00:27:28   but anyway, she had to have goggles on and just do all of this from memory. I can barely

00:27:32   remember my own name half the time. She ducked under Douthfear's lightsaber that wasn't there.

00:27:37   That was a hell of a demo. It was intense, like I'm serious, that was super impressive

00:27:42   because everyone else at least can look at a monitor and remind themselves what they're

00:27:45   supposed to talk about next. And you can say, "Oh, it's ILM, they're good at this." ILM

00:27:48   do live shows in front of an audience.

00:27:50   They do post-production. They have all the time in the world.

00:27:52   So they must have rehearsed that like crazy.

00:27:54   And that was impressive. Obviously it wasn't a game

00:27:56   that you can play, but it was a very cool demo.

00:27:58   Yeah, it was super cool.

00:28:00   So was iMac Pro next?

00:28:02   Well, next they did the quick MacBooks update.

00:28:04   Which we pretty much already covered.

00:28:06   You're welcome. See, this is... What's nice about

00:28:08   the MacBook update to Kaby Lake...

00:28:10   First of all, they did all of them.

00:28:12   Actually, even the MacBook Air.

00:28:14   It was a megahertz bump.

00:28:16   Same screen, same everything, we increased the clock speed.

00:28:19   - Yeah, but if they went to Skylight,

00:28:20   that's gonna be a big battery boost on the MacBook Air.

00:28:22   But what's nice about the MacBook update is that

00:28:26   they did it, you know, Kaby Lake came out not that long ago,

00:28:29   you know, they're shipping these products on time, basically,

00:28:32   and they're doing it all and it's not that big of a deal.

00:28:35   They didn't like hold everything back until this winter

00:28:37   when the iMac Pro launches or whatever.

00:28:39   They're not like artificially delaying things.

00:28:41   - They didn't hold it back until they could get

00:28:43   32 gigs of RAM in either, they just said,

00:28:44   - It's like we're gonna do the updates we can do now

00:28:46   and everyone, that's all good.

00:28:48   - Like it's really nice that this is the first step

00:28:52   in a potential return to regular updates

00:28:55   on a healthy schedule for the entire Mac lineup.

00:28:58   This is step one of that.

00:28:59   We'll see if they can maintain that over time,

00:29:01   that'd be nice, I hope they do.

00:29:03   But this is the indication that they're at least

00:29:05   on that path right now, and that I'm really glad to see.

00:29:08   - Yeah, 'cause was it Gray and Mike that were talking about

00:29:11   I wanna see like a line here.

00:29:13   I don't want to see just one point where, oh yeah, they

00:29:16   updated, great.

00:29:17   I think that was me, but that's fine.

00:29:18   It was also you.

00:29:20   I'm so sorry.

00:29:21   Excuse me, everyone, my mistake.

00:29:24   But the point is still fair, right?

00:29:25   Regardless of who made it, the point

00:29:27   is that you can start to draw a line here and say, OK,

00:29:30   updates are happening with some amount of regularity, which

00:29:34   is a great sign.

00:29:35   Now, we'll see if that stays true for iPad stuff, which

00:29:38   we'll get to in a minute.

00:29:39   But I mean, this is still a step in the right direction, which

00:29:41   is good.

00:29:42   - Well it kind of makes me dread

00:29:43   when they change the cases again,

00:29:44   'cause maybe we can start attributing the delay to that,

00:29:47   like oh, they update them fine

00:29:48   when it's all in the same case,

00:29:49   but then there's like this big update

00:29:51   where they're like touch bar

00:29:52   and the new form factors and the MacBook One.

00:29:55   I hope the next time they change the form factors

00:29:57   there isn't a weird gap again.

00:29:59   - Yeah.

00:30:00   Well next, speaking of weird gaps,

00:30:03   they kind of addressed the Mac Pro need,

00:30:05   temporarily, with the iMac Pro,

00:30:07   which we all knew was a thing that was coming

00:30:09   ever since that briefing they had.

00:30:11   But for me it was always a big question mark of like,

00:30:14   what will the iMac Pro have that the Mac Pro doesn't?

00:30:17   And what would the iMac Pro have

00:30:19   that the regular iMac doesn't?

00:30:20   Like where do they fill this,

00:30:22   how do they balance that and how do they maintain a reason

00:30:26   for those other two ends of this scale to exist?

00:30:29   And I still have just as many questions now

00:30:32   because what they ended up doing--

00:30:33   - We saw it, we saw it in the hands-on area.

00:30:34   It's space gray.

00:30:35   - Oh my god, can we just talk about how hot that thing looks?

00:30:38   That thing looks amazing.

00:30:39   - It was dark in the room.

00:30:40   I wish it was matte black, but I guess they gotta say

00:30:43   the matte black for the pro.

00:30:44   By the way, I'm the iMac pro.

00:30:45   Let's think of an alternate universe.

00:30:47   An alternate universe exists where the iMac pro

00:30:50   was there going to be their story for pro Mac hardware.

00:30:54   When this project was conceived,

00:30:55   the iMac pro was conceived, there was no plan

00:30:57   for the Mac pro that they've now promised us.

00:31:00   So think about that.

00:31:02   Think about, imagine a world where Apple announces this

00:31:05   and they never had the Mac round table

00:31:06   and we all look at this and it's cool and everything,

00:31:08   but I think people would still be super angry

00:31:10   because this is not--

00:31:11   - People?

00:31:11   I know two people that would be super angry.

00:31:14   - The people who want Pro Macs.

00:31:15   I mean, some people are still saying this Pro Mac

00:31:17   is not exactly what they want.

00:31:18   But for a top-end iMac, I think it's awesome

00:31:20   because now we know the other one is coming.

00:31:22   So this doesn't need to be all things to all people.

00:31:24   It needs to be, and that's why it has these guts in them

00:31:27   that are so high-end, like an 18-core Xeon

00:31:30   and 128 gigs of ECC RAM.

00:31:32   This is because this was going to be the Mac Pro story.

00:31:35   So your questions, I guess, are probably like,

00:31:37   how did they get all that stuff in there?

00:31:38   Is it gonna melt?

00:31:39   How loud is it gonna be?

00:31:40   Are these your questions?

00:31:42   - Yeah, so my biggest question,

00:31:43   so basically the answer on where they put it

00:31:46   on the spectrum is they put a Mac Pro in the iMac case.

00:31:50   They put Xeon CPUs, workstation class graphics, we think,

00:31:54   high RAM ceiling, ECC RAM, big throughput,

00:31:57   it has dual Thunderbolt controllers, so it's like--

00:32:00   - 10 gig ethernet, all the highest of the high-end features

00:32:03   are in there in this little skinny package.

00:32:05   By the way, the one in the hands-on area,

00:32:07   Like it was a prototype, so I couldn't tell

00:32:09   what the noise levels were gonna be,

00:32:10   but they had the fans set to max, just, you know.

00:32:13   So it's not representative of hardware,

00:32:15   but it was so loud in that room I couldn't tell.

00:32:16   But definitely there was more airflow

00:32:18   coming out of that thing that you would expect.

00:32:20   But otherwise it just looks like an iMac.

00:32:22   It just looks like an iMac.

00:32:23   It didn't look any thicker to me.

00:32:25   - No, in fact it's the exact same dimensions

00:32:27   according to their website.

00:32:27   It said without adding a millimeter,

00:32:29   we added all this power, which is cute.

00:32:30   - But it was not just like an iMac.

00:32:32   Did you see how good that thing looked?

00:32:34   Like I want that.

00:32:35   I don't--

00:32:36   - You just want the space gray, man.

00:32:37   I do, I do.

00:32:38   And they have the Magic Trackpad too.

00:32:40   The Magic Trackpad also comes in Space Gray.

00:32:42   And the mouse, they all come now in Space Gray, and the keyboard is now wireless with

00:32:45   a number pad.

00:32:46   A combination that has never existed before.

00:32:48   That's super awesome.

00:32:49   And I asked the person that was doing the kind of demo.

00:32:54   Ten seconds after I asked them.

00:32:56   I wasn't there, I walked up right after John and I was like, "So, what switches are these

00:33:00   exactly?"

00:33:01   And he said, "It's exactly like the current Magic Keyboard."

00:33:02   Which we can all agree is the best keyboard that has ever existed.

00:33:06   Good talk, all right.

00:33:07   So it really does.

00:33:09   All kidding aside, it looks great.

00:33:10   The fan output, like I put my hand behind the exhaust vent,

00:33:14   which is in the back, unlike the iMacs that we have today,

00:33:17   if I recall correctly.

00:33:18   That was moving a lot of air.

00:33:20   And admittedly, like John said, it was loud in the air.

00:33:22   Admittedly, we only had but 30 seconds or whatever

00:33:25   in front of it.

00:33:26   But it did not sound terribly loud to me at all.

00:33:28   And it was moving a stunning amount of air

00:33:31   for what looked to be a little tiny area

00:33:34   that the vent was taking out.

00:33:36   It's going to be heating up the foot,

00:33:37   because it's blowing back on the little L-shaped foot thingy.

00:33:40   And so that foot is going to get hot

00:33:41   and act as a radiator and slowly warm.

00:33:43   Like if you put a piece of chocolate

00:33:44   on the top part of that foot, one of the things going,

00:33:47   it'll melt into a puddle.

00:33:48   It's kind of interesting.

00:33:49   We weren't allowed to touch it, by the way,

00:33:50   although I did immediately grab the mouse.

00:33:52   But I basically got my hand slapped.

00:33:53   We weren't allowed to touch it.

00:33:55   It's just for them to look at.

00:33:56   The only other thing that we asked that was relevant

00:33:57   is it does have socketed RAM that you

00:33:59   could see in the diagram when they showed it in the keynote.

00:34:02   But there is not user upgradeable.

00:34:03   there is no door, you are not supposed to reach in there,

00:34:06   and so it's not all soldered to the board,

00:34:07   but it doesn't matter, you still can't upgrade it.

00:34:09   So, order it with as much RAM as you can afford

00:34:12   after you mortgage your house to buy one of these things.

00:34:14   - Yeah, so speaking of, what is it,

00:34:15   start at five grand basically?

00:34:16   - Starts at 5,000, which is not bad.

00:34:19   - But you know, for that deal,

00:34:20   if you configure a Mac Pro with eight cores

00:34:22   and one terabyte, which is what that base configuration is,

00:34:24   and 32 gigs of RAM, that's actually not that ridiculous.

00:34:26   Plus the screen, that's a good deal.

00:34:28   - You get a free screen with it, which is nice.

00:34:29   - Yeah, I consider that, right now today,

00:34:33   and not look too far into it yet,

00:34:34   I consider that pretty reasonable.

00:34:36   - So sitting here now, you guys, I shouldn't say we,

00:34:40   'cause I'm not gonna get one of these

00:34:42   despite have we talked about how hot it is.

00:34:44   No, but I'm curious actually,

00:34:47   are you guys going to get one of these?

00:34:49   Because in a lot of ways on the surface,

00:34:52   well obviously Marco is, but I still have to ask the question.

00:34:55   - Marco's gonna get two of them, let's face it.

00:34:56   He's gonna get two of these.

00:34:57   - That's probably true.

00:34:58   But this does seem to solve a lot of problems,

00:35:01   and so on the one side I'm really excited about this

00:35:03   for you guys especially, that it solves a lot of problems

00:35:05   and it seems like this is the way of the future.

00:35:08   But at the same time, we had that roundtable

00:35:11   where they said, no, really, the way the future

00:35:12   is the new Mac Pro that'll come sometime

00:35:14   between now and 2030.

00:35:15   So--

00:35:16   - This is the marshmallow experiment.

00:35:17   What's the name of that one?

00:35:18   Marshmallow thing?

00:35:19   - Yeah.

00:35:20   - Like you offer the kid, we can have one marshmallow now,

00:35:22   if you wait 30 seconds, you can have two marshmallows,

00:35:24   and the kid's like, one marshmallow now.

00:35:26   So if you can wait until next year or the year after

00:35:29   or sometime after that, you can get a Mac Pro,

00:35:31   which is gonna be probably super awesome,

00:35:33   just like this is, 'cause clearly they're showing

00:35:35   their willingness to put the best of the best stuff

00:35:38   inside a Mac.

00:35:39   They've done it here as best they could

00:35:40   in this little skinny thing.

00:35:41   And in the big Mac Pro, it's gonna be even,

00:35:43   so if you can wait for that, you will get it.

00:35:45   If you can't wait, you can plunk down your life savings

00:35:48   on this thing and get it.

00:35:50   - So is that what you're gonna do?

00:35:50   Are you gonna plunk down your life savings on this thing?

00:35:52   - No, if my, like, I would love to have one of these.

00:35:56   I would love to replace my Mac with it.

00:35:57   It looks like a great computer.

00:35:59   But I bet I'll love the Mac Pro even more.

00:36:03   So I can just keep using my--

00:36:06   I want to go for a decade.

00:36:09   So if I can just keep using my computer for longer--

00:36:11   You're close.

00:36:12   At this point, you might as well.

00:36:13   Wait, right?

00:36:14   I don't-- if we're to have this podcast in 2019,

00:36:17   I still have no computer.

00:36:18   I swear I'm going to go back in time

00:36:20   and buy an iMac Pro right now.

00:36:22   I bet both of those things will be true.

00:36:24   I bet that is accurate.

00:36:26   The big question for me, which is probably

00:36:28   what you're thinking of also is like,

00:36:30   well you're already set on the Mac Pro

00:36:31   for like you know, shape and political reasons.

00:36:34   But like-- - Political reasons?

00:36:36   - But I'm thinking like, what is left for the Mac Pro to do?

00:36:39   And if you look at this, like this really is

00:36:41   a lot of Mac Pro type hardware in an iMac case.

00:36:45   Like what, why should the Mac Pro still exist with this?

00:36:48   And I only came up with a handful of reasons.

00:36:50   Like my big one was if you want multiple CPUs or GPUs.

00:36:56   So presumably a new Mac Pro would have to support

00:37:01   either dual GPU, at least dual GPU sockets,

00:37:04   and maybe dual CPU sockets.

00:37:06   'Cause otherwise, again, why would this thing exist?

00:37:08   And then of course, maybe they'd have

00:37:09   another Thunderbolt controller,

00:37:10   like a third one to make more bandwidth total

00:37:13   for external connections and stuff.

00:37:15   Maybe they're gonna have some kind of 8K story

00:37:18   with the Pro Display.

00:37:19   - Two 10 gig ethernet ports.

00:37:21   - Yeah, and the big thing also would be

00:37:23   presumably quieter cooling.

00:37:25   - And reliability, just plain reliability and modularity.

00:37:28   Like what you're looking for is,

00:37:29   we always thought, oh it's quieter

00:37:31   and it doesn't get stressed as much,

00:37:32   but for pro hardware, you want it to just be super reliable.

00:37:36   You don't want to be in the edge of the thermal envelope.

00:37:38   Like I kept thinking of the thermal corner thing,

00:37:40   where we painted ourselves into a thermal corner

00:37:42   with the old Mac Pro.

00:37:43   I looked at that, that iMac Pro,

00:37:44   that looks like a hell of a thermal corner.

00:37:45   Like I don't know how much headroom you have in that thing,

00:37:48   but it's like 500 watt power supply,

00:37:50   and that's a lot of energy to, you know,

00:37:54   the waste heat to get out of that system.

00:37:56   The Mac Pro should have headroom.

00:37:59   It should be the type of thing that you can stick

00:38:02   either under a desk or on a desk or however it's gonna be

00:38:04   in some editing bay and leave it there

00:38:06   and it will just be rock solid, reliable, and quiet-ish.

00:38:11   And that's the role.

00:38:13   And of course it'll be even more expensive

00:38:15   and hopefully also cooler looking.

00:38:16   Like if they're saving matte black for something,

00:38:18   use it on the Mac Pro.

00:38:19   (audience laughing)

00:38:20   - Yeah, I mean, I think it's,

00:38:22   I actually am a little bit concerned,

00:38:24   like why is this iMac not shipping now?

00:38:27   Is this like, could they not get the CPUs in volume,

00:38:29   or the GPUs custom part, like why--

00:38:31   - I think it was always going to ship.

00:38:32   Like here's the interesting thing about this WAC,

00:38:34   they announced a lot of things,

00:38:35   a lot more things than usual that are not shipping.

00:38:37   So it's kind of like, the old thing was like,

00:38:39   we're gonna tell you things that are shipping

00:38:41   in the near future or now, and if there's stuff later,

00:38:43   we can always have another event about revised whatevers,

00:38:45   but they just announced everything

00:38:47   that they have for this year, it seemed like.

00:38:49   announced almost everything now,

00:38:51   even if it's not shipping until December.

00:38:52   So it makes for a better keynote.

00:38:55   I think we all, it makes for a better keynote

00:38:57   to show the iMac Pro now,

00:38:58   then, they already told us it's coming,

00:39:00   than to wait until December.

00:39:01   And they're gonna miss the holiday season with it too.

00:39:03   Like it's just, it's better,

00:39:06   I think they learned from the Mac Pro thing,

00:39:07   it's better to let people know what's coming

00:39:09   and show it to them and get them excited about it

00:39:11   and it's, you know, when it releases,

00:39:13   everyone will buy it and it'll be fine.

00:39:15   There's no reason they need to have an October event

00:39:17   to reveal the iMac Pro.

00:39:18   So I'm happy that they know.

00:39:19   - Not everyone will be buying it apparently,

00:39:22   but I'm with you in principle.

00:39:23   I think to answer your question Marco,

00:39:25   I think what about user replaceable stuff?

00:39:27   Like having RAM that's user replaceable.

00:39:29   I think to me, in addition to what you were saying,

00:39:32   especially about cooling,

00:39:34   I think the advantage would be user replaceable RAM,

00:39:36   user replaceable storage,

00:39:39   and user replaceable perhaps graphics card

00:39:42   or something like that.

00:39:43   I think that's where a true Mac Pro would shine.

00:39:46   and then for people who don't buy computers

00:39:49   and keep them for a decade,

00:39:52   then you can get the iMac Pro.

00:39:54   But if you like to have computers

00:39:56   that are as old as children,

00:39:58   then you can get a Mac Pro.

00:39:59   - Yeah, that seems reasonable.

00:40:02   - So what else in the hardware?

00:40:05   That was it for the hardware at this point, right?

00:40:07   And then we jumped right into iOS 11.

00:40:09   - Yeah, right into messages.

00:40:11   - Yeah, because woo.

00:40:13   - Yeah, I did lose the bet

00:40:15   that message apps wouldn't be mentioned at all,

00:40:17   but not by much.

00:40:18   Message apps were slightly mentioned,

00:40:22   and I'm sure there were some minor improvements to them,

00:40:24   but for the most part, I think it's kind of like

00:40:26   on the scale of watch OS and tvOS,

00:40:28   well, more than tv, I mean, everything's more than tv,

00:40:31   but kind of on the same scale of watch OS

00:40:32   of like minor improvements here and there,

00:40:34   but we didn't, like, for this brand new app store

00:40:39   and app type that launched only a year ago,

00:40:41   we heard fairly little about it,

00:40:43   and I think that's a little bit concerning

00:40:45   for people who were making iMessage apps

00:40:46   or who thought that was gonna be a bigger thing.

00:40:47   - Well, they did, they're dogfooding it.

00:40:49   They did Apple Pay as an iMessage app.

00:40:50   But I think this is the most important

00:40:52   messages release ever, because it's finally going to work,

00:40:55   in theory, the way that everyone thinks

00:40:57   a message app should work, which is if you send

00:40:59   a bunch of messages on one device

00:41:01   and then you go to another device,

00:41:02   the conversation you just had on the other device is there

00:41:05   with the iCloud syncing of the messages.

00:41:07   I don't know how they're doing that,

00:41:07   preserving the privacy, because the old answer was like,

00:41:09   oh, we can't do that because it's end-to-end encrypted

00:41:11   and we can't send those messages elsewhere.

00:41:13   But I just want, and I hope they're like actually

00:41:14   chronological and not whatever order they're in now.

00:41:18   So if they do that successfully, have a time

00:41:21   ordered series of back and forths of text messages

00:41:23   between people that is the same on all my devices, this

00:41:26   will be the most important messages update ever.

00:41:28   You know, it's funny because I am not trying to joke right

00:41:31   now, but when they were talking about how everything

00:41:33   syncs across devices, I was genuinely confused because

00:41:36   that's pretty much the behavior I see.

00:41:38   Your message is unicorn.

00:41:39   I was just about to say, you stole my joke, that I must be

00:41:42   and I message unicorn because almost always,

00:41:45   I mean there are definitely hiccups from time to time,

00:41:47   but almost always that is what happens today.

00:41:49   And I was really surprised to see, yeah for me.

00:41:51   - I just had it, when I got off the plane

00:41:53   I sent a text message to somebody

00:41:56   and then their text messages for when I was flying

00:41:59   came in below the message I just sent

00:42:02   because even though they were like four hours old,

00:42:05   I want that to go away, I want it to just work normally.

00:42:08   - There's probably also a good security white paper

00:42:10   to read about how the heck they did this

00:42:12   while also maintaining all their end-to-end encryption stuff.

00:42:14   - Yeah, I don't know.

00:42:16   It seems like I would be willing to sacrifice

00:42:19   the end-to-end encryption just to get the messages

00:42:21   in sync because it's so frustrating

00:42:23   to not see your conversations

00:42:24   that'd be the same in both places.

00:42:26   - You know, another thing that was a little weird,

00:42:28   I have a complaint for the Apple AV people

00:42:31   that I would like to air in front of everyone.

00:42:33   If you're in the back of the room

00:42:34   or toward the back of the room,

00:42:35   the screen that the presenters are presenting in front of,

00:42:39   it goes all the way to the floor of the stage.

00:42:41   Like this logo behind us.

00:42:42   Yeah, kind of like the logo behind us, right?

00:42:44   So it goes to the floor of the stage,

00:42:46   which means anything that's happening

00:42:47   on the bottom quarter of the screen,

00:42:48   unless you're in the first 10 or 15 rows,

00:42:50   you have no freaking clue what is happening.

00:42:52   Like the prices, like they put the prices

00:42:54   and stuff on the bottom.

00:42:55   (audience laughing)

00:42:56   All you can see is the back of people's heads

00:42:58   and then everyone's craning their necks.

00:42:59   It wasn't a great setup, but they'll fix that next year.

00:43:01   Well, this is the way it's always been,

00:43:02   and maybe we just made a poor choice.

00:43:04   It's a little bit higher in Moscow,

00:43:05   and in Presidio, the screen is a little bit higher.

00:43:07   Yeah, they're like hanging it from the ceiling in Presidio.

00:43:09   That was never a problem.

00:43:10   - Well no, there's-- - No, no, the front screen.

00:43:12   - The front screen. - The front screen.

00:43:13   - The front of the room. - Oh yeah, forget it.

00:43:15   - All right, so iOS 11, it had messages improvements.

00:43:19   I am really stoked about the peer-to-peer Apple Pay.

00:43:22   I don't know how much that's gonna blow up,

00:43:24   but like a lot of my family and friends use iPhones.

00:43:28   And so for that, it'll be super simple.

00:43:30   I'm curious to see what the extract

00:43:33   from Apple Pay kind of workflow is.

00:43:35   How clunky is it to get it into your bank?

00:43:38   Do you have to just associate a debit card

00:43:40   and then it's just magic after that?

00:43:42   - Yeah, I think that it'll be fine.

00:43:43   - Yeah, but I mean, I'm just curious to see it.

00:43:45   - They're competing with like,

00:43:45   Dwalla and Square and other companies

00:43:47   that have a similar experience,

00:43:48   so I don't think they're gonna be worse,

00:43:50   but it is kind of fragmenting the payment ecosystem now,

00:43:53   'cause I mean, I guess it already was fragmented.

00:43:54   If you try to send somebody money,

00:43:55   you have to go through this little dance for us.

00:43:57   Do you have Square?

00:43:58   Do you use Dwall?

00:43:58   Are you willing to sign up an account for any of these?

00:44:00   Now it's gonna be like--

00:44:01   - Hello Venmo?

00:44:02   - Yeah, do you have Apple Pay?

00:44:04   We'll work it out.

00:44:04   I mean, if you go to this conference,

00:44:06   next year everyone will be giving each other money for meals on Apple Pay, so that'll work

00:44:09   out fine.

00:44:10   It'll be pretty nice.

00:44:11   So Siri's still a thing.

00:44:13   It is more and more things over time.

00:44:15   There's new voices, which are good.

00:44:17   Translation, which does look super cool, but what I'm a little concerned with is, so I

00:44:23   can say in some arbitrary other language, you know, "Hey, where's the bathroom?"

00:44:27   But what happens when they reply?

00:44:31   Like do I, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

00:44:33   hold on.

00:44:34   There are apps for that in the App Store, right?

00:44:35   their text, their speech and translate it for you?

00:44:37   I guess.

00:44:38   Yeah, probably.

00:44:39   They're probably made by Google.

00:44:40   But like, why, like, yeah, that's a good point.

00:44:41   Like, when I saw the feature, I'm like, "Oh, that'll be great for travel."

00:44:43   I didn't even think about what I'd do with the response that I get.

00:44:46   That's the problem.

00:44:47   Like, it's, I'm not trying to...

00:44:48   Do I hand them the phone and have them hold the button down?

00:44:49   Right, right.

00:44:50   And then record their response and then...

00:44:51   I mean, and I'm not trying to rain on the parade.

00:44:53   I'm really not.

00:44:54   Like, it's an amazing feature and I'm sure it's going to be super cool.

00:44:57   But if it's only one-way communication, it only takes you but so far.

00:45:02   It only takes you one way.

00:45:03   - Well, we are Americans traveling to places

00:45:05   that don't speak English, so it is kind of our style

00:45:09   to just yell at people and not accept,

00:45:10   not have any kind of response.

00:45:11   - That's true, that is a fair point.

00:45:13   But there's not, I don't recall seeing very much

00:45:17   SiriKit for you, was right?

00:45:20   - You were asking this really for people to pause

00:45:22   on that slide that had all the new intents on it.

00:45:24   Did you ever get that info?

00:45:25   - Yeah, I did, there was nothing.

00:45:26   There's, I mean, and this was actually

00:45:28   a big disappointment for me that there was no

00:45:31   like SiriKit expansion into audio type services

00:45:33   so that I could use it for Overcast

00:45:35   and people could use it for things like Spotify

00:45:37   and everything and I think last year

00:45:38   when this was not present, the theory we came up with was,

00:45:42   well, it's probably because they just didn't get to it.

00:45:45   But it might be to protect and enhance Apple Music

00:45:49   because that's giving Apple Music a big advantage in Syria

00:45:52   and having that integration and that will drive

00:45:54   subscriptions to Apple Music over the competitors.

00:45:56   So this year, as another year goes by and it's not there,

00:46:00   I still think those are the two explanations,

00:46:02   but just the probability shifted a little bit.

00:46:05   Where they might have still just not gotten to it.

00:46:07   The things they added, the list was not very long.

00:46:10   So maybe they just didn't get to it yet.

00:46:12   Because it is a big job, you do have to have some kind of way

00:46:14   to index the content of the audio service

00:46:17   so that they know even how to parse things

00:46:20   to know what people are talking about.

00:46:21   So I'd have to have some kind of indexing extension

00:46:25   for them to index all the shows and overcast

00:46:27   for the whole online service and things like that.

00:46:29   So that is a lot for them to build.

00:46:31   There's parts of it there already,

00:46:32   but that's a lot to build.

00:46:34   So maybe they just didn't get to it.

00:46:35   But they also are still are really,

00:46:39   Apple Music is still in a pretty good place now

00:46:41   because it has Siri integration and nothing else does.

00:46:44   And as they go into things like the HomePod,

00:46:46   it's gonna have a similar effect of like,

00:46:49   well, if you want to use a stream music

00:46:50   with this new speaker that you wanna buy from Apple,

00:46:53   you can only use Apple Music with it basically.

00:46:55   So that is, I think,

00:46:58   Again, they might have just not gotten to it yet,

00:47:01   but as more time goes on that they don't add this,

00:47:05   fairly obvious feature that a lot of people want,

00:47:07   I think the answer is gonna be much more likely

00:47:09   to just be, yeah, they just wanna have

00:47:11   that app music only.

00:47:12   - But what intents did they add?

00:47:13   Like, they might just be doing it in priority order.

00:47:15   Obviously, your priority is audio,

00:47:16   but maybe they're doing like the most,

00:47:18   they think like the most common ones,

00:47:19   the ones that have the most apps, the most users,

00:47:20   and they're working their way down the list

00:47:22   getting to audio eventually.

00:47:23   - Right, and that's, again, it's like that's,

00:47:25   it depends on how long they go before this happens,

00:47:27   like how you evaluate this, they didn't,

00:47:29   honestly they didn't add as much

00:47:31   as I thought they would this year.

00:47:32   I thought there would be a large expansion

00:47:34   of SiriKit intents, and there really wasn't.

00:47:36   There were like three or four of them,

00:47:37   and they were fairly basic type things.

00:47:40   So my whole prediction of this being

00:47:42   like an all Siri heavy keynote was mostly wrong,

00:47:46   because it really was not as much about Siri as I expected.

00:47:49   - You were right about one thing though.

00:47:50   Like I was totally expecting them,

00:47:52   especially with the HomePod business,

00:47:53   I was expecting them to say, "Siri is massively improved.

00:47:56   we have made Siri so much better, it's smarter,

00:47:59   and just call it Siri 2, or really promoting the idea

00:48:03   that Siri doesn't do things that are as silly

00:48:06   as it currently does, but they didn't.

00:48:07   And I remember last week you were like,

00:48:09   I don't think it's gonna be the same old Siri.

00:48:11   And aside from new capabilities,

00:48:14   obviously a whole new vocabulary,

00:48:15   we're talking about music to work with the Apple Music thing.

00:48:17   - New voice.

00:48:18   - Right, but what about all the other things

00:48:19   that we currently ask?

00:48:21   Before the show, people were sharing screenshots

00:48:23   of them asking when is the keynote,

00:48:25   when is the Apple event, so on and so forth.

00:48:27   And I think someone said, it was Nealey Patel said,

00:48:29   when is the Apple keynote?

00:48:32   And it said, you know, June 5th or whatever.

00:48:34   Like what time does it start?

00:48:35   And it said June 5th.

00:48:36   And other people said, oh, you just gotta ask it

00:48:37   the right way, when is the Apple event?

00:48:39   And it gave all the info down to the time, right?

00:48:41   And then people followed up with that,

00:48:42   with the exact same text, asking the Siri the same question.

00:48:45   And Siri going, I don't know.

00:48:46   And so, there's nothing in here that says,

00:48:49   we have massively improved Siri.

00:48:52   They have expanded Siri to be able to do more things

00:48:55   by extending its vocabulary, adding a few intents

00:48:58   and putting it in HomePod,

00:48:59   but it seems like it's the same old Siri.

00:49:01   They seem to be happy with Siri's understanding of things

00:49:04   and I really think they need to,

00:49:07   I mean, obviously you can do the marketing push

00:49:09   without the tech, but I hope they need to improve the tech.

00:49:11   I would love to have a conversation with Siri.

00:49:13   I would love to go back and forth

00:49:14   to be able to correct Siri, to have it learn,

00:49:16   to have it just darn be smarter.

00:49:18   - Yeah, and also to be more reliable

00:49:21   and to be more consistent.

00:49:23   That's the one thing where we'll get to do

00:49:25   with HomePod later, but that's one area

00:49:28   where Siri has always been a little bit behind competitors,

00:49:30   just reliability and consistency in the responses

00:49:33   and getting it right every time.

00:49:36   - That's why people love to post the screenshots,

00:49:37   because as soon as someone has a comeback,

00:49:39   like, oh, I asked it and it got the thing right,

00:49:41   someone just immediately thought,

00:49:42   I asked the exact same question,

00:49:43   and we're sitting next to each other in a room,

00:49:46   it's not like we're in different countries,

00:49:47   like what, very frustrating.

00:49:49   So it makes you wanna use it less,

00:49:51   and we'll get to that with the HomePod stuff

00:49:52   when we talk about that,

00:49:52   but we talked about it with the cylinders.

00:49:53   if it doesn't do what you want, you stop asking it that question because it's not worth your

00:49:58   time and potential self-consciousness to talk to your device and have it come back to you

00:50:04   in a way that is not satisfactory. You just say, "Oh, I'm not going through that again."

00:50:08   This year was the year of iPads and it was the year of codecs because not only is there

00:50:12   HEVC like we talked about earlier, which is going to be used for iPhone captured videos,

00:50:17   but HEF is what they call it? HEF, that's what it was. That's replacing JPEG apparently,

00:50:23   which in and of itself, that sounds good,

00:50:26   especially if it's better in every measurable way,

00:50:28   but it needs to be adopted everywhere like JPEG is,

00:50:33   and I presume over time it will,

00:50:34   and they may mention the state of the union

00:50:36   that it's like an ISO standard or something like that.

00:50:37   - Yeah, it's not the Apple proprietary thing,

00:50:39   as people are wondering.

00:50:40   It's not something they invented.

00:50:41   And I think they had a good story about compatibility.

00:50:44   Yeah, we're using this internally.

00:50:46   It takes up, the big selling point,

00:50:48   which they emphasize a little bit,

00:50:49   is your phone won't fill with videos and photos as fast

00:50:53   because they'll be smaller.

00:50:55   And also, by the way, they'll be nicer quality

00:50:57   and at the same time they're smaller.

00:50:59   So that's a great product story,

00:51:01   because that's a common problem people have

00:51:02   with filling their phone up with stuff.

00:51:04   But then the story is, okay, well how do I share them?

00:51:06   And they're gonna be super conservative.

00:51:08   If you send your Heef thing anywhere else,

00:51:11   if you email it to somebody,

00:51:12   if you try to import it to another app,

00:51:14   if you send it in messages, anything like that,

00:51:16   then it converts on the fly to JPEG at that point.

00:51:19   And you don't get the big win unless everybody

00:51:21   switches to Heef, but I don't know if they will.

00:51:23   but even if it's just on device,

00:51:25   if he never leaves your device, it's just on device

00:51:28   and they be syncing with photos,

00:51:29   that is still a big win for the product

00:51:31   because no one else is doing that,

00:51:32   their phones are gonna fill up with photos faster

00:51:34   than Apple's of the same size.

00:51:35   - Additionally, depth API for those of you

00:51:39   who use the preposterously oversized ridiculous phone

00:51:42   that you shouldn't use, so that's kind of exciting.

00:51:45   - It's gonna come to our phone this fall.

00:51:46   - Yeah, eventually, yeah.

00:51:48   But that's kind of cool.

00:51:49   I'm curious to see, all snark aside,

00:51:51   I think that is one of the more interesting APIs

00:51:53   that they've made mention of so far,

00:51:55   because I think there could be some really cool

00:51:57   and clever stuff done with that.

00:52:00   I don't know exactly what that would be,

00:52:01   otherwise I would probably be back in writing it right now,

00:52:04   because that's clearly the way to a billion dollars.

00:52:06   But I'm really anxious to see--

00:52:09   - Fast text too.

00:52:10   - It's happening, with depth, now with depth.

00:52:13   But I'm really curious to see kind of where that goes

00:52:15   and what all of you folks do with it,

00:52:18   because I think it could be really powerful

00:52:19   really interesting. Control Center is better now. It's one page, which is super exciting,

00:52:26   because I cannot tell you, we can cheer for that, that's cool.

00:52:29   I cheered for that.

00:52:32   I cannot tell you the amount of times I will swipe up and then swipe left or right immediately,

00:52:38   because I feel like any time I open Control Center, I am inevitably on the wrong page.

00:52:42   It is like a rule that that's the way it works. So that's really cool.

00:52:46   The biggest problem with Control Center, I would imagine that Apple would notice, and

00:52:49   we don't. How many people don't even know there's another screen in Control Center?

00:52:53   And especially if that person's phone somehow gets switched to the other screen and they're

00:52:57   like, "My volume control is gone. Where did it go?" They don't see the little dots. I

00:53:01   bet that's one of the big reasons why they changed it. It's not discoverable. And yes,

00:53:06   for the people who do know what it is, it's frustrating, but having it all in one, especially

00:53:09   since it doesn't take up your whole screen, they have the room to make it bigger. And

00:53:12   from what I saw, you can customize Control Center and sort of decide what you want on

00:53:16   your one screen. I'm not sure how much it scales. Like can you put like all the widgets

00:53:20   and your control center fills up the whole screen. But anyway, definitely an improvement.

00:53:24   Yeah underscore David Smith, I don't know if he's here somewhere, but he put the iOS

00:53:29   11 beta onto an iPhone 6 and I got to play with it very briefly and I was mostly playing

00:53:34   with control center and it worked really well and they did a really good job of kind of

00:53:38   the faux 3D touch or forced touch, whatever it's called, I forget what it's called this

00:53:42   But anyway, so if you tap on the panel that has Wi-Fi and

00:53:47   Bluetooth and stuff like that, if you deep press on that on a

00:53:51   more modern iPhone, it will immediately snap to the

00:53:54   expanded blown up view where it has text in it and there's a

00:53:57   few other controls.

00:53:59   And on an iPhone 6 or one of these ones without Force Touch,

00:54:02   then what it'll end up doing is if you just tap and hold on

00:54:06   that pane--

00:54:07   I think they had a name for it, didn't they?

00:54:08   I forget what they were calling it.

00:54:09   But anyway, if you tap and hold on that just for a

00:54:11   for a moment, it'll blow it up as though you had

00:54:13   deep touched it, which I thought was really well executed.

00:54:16   It looks, visually it looks good-ish,

00:54:20   like I feel like it's a little haphazard,

00:54:22   but by and large, I'm okay with the design.

00:54:25   But I am super amped to use it,

00:54:27   because I think it is way more functional

00:54:29   than what we've got, and I use Control Center constantly.

00:54:32   So I'm really excited for it.

00:54:33   - It's function over form, finally,

00:54:35   because the old controls looked more elegant.

00:54:37   There's like a thin line with a tiny little thing on it,

00:54:39   even though the touch area for the tiny little bulb

00:54:41   like your volume control or brightness slider or whatever.

00:54:45   The hit area, that was probably bigger.

00:54:47   It looks small and delicate.

00:54:48   It looked better in screenshots.

00:54:49   This looks kind of dorky in screenshots,

00:54:50   but the giant bars that you fill, right?

00:54:54   That's like the size of your finger.

00:54:56   It's like the oxo good grips of control sets.

00:54:58   We don't care how it looks.

00:55:00   It's like this is a big, chunky thing.

00:55:02   Put your thumb in here, and when you slide it,

00:55:04   it'll be clear how much white is filling the bar,

00:55:06   and you can even zoom it to a bigger mode

00:55:07   to make it fill your entire screen.

00:55:09   So it doesn't look as nice in screenshots.

00:55:11   Maybe Johnny Ivey's on vacation, or he's too busy

00:55:13   designing door handles.

00:55:14   But it functions better.

00:55:17   You are always on vacation in California, am I right,

00:55:19   everyone?

00:55:20   I mean, that's kind of how this works.

00:55:20   But he lives in England now, right?

00:55:22   I don't know.

00:55:22   Oh.

00:55:23   Yikes.

00:55:24   All right, what was next?

00:55:26   Don't you have in the audience, anyone?

00:55:27   No.

00:55:27   Just stand up.

00:55:29   That sounds likely.

00:55:30   Fight me.

00:55:31   All right.

00:55:31   Oh, Lock Center and Notification Center are now merged.

00:55:35   And I don't know what to think about this.

00:55:37   I did not get a chance to play with that on underscore's phone. The way they demoed it, it looked pretty good to me,

00:55:43   but I'm gonna be perturbed if I swipe down to see past notifications,

00:55:48   and then swipe up to go back to what I was doing, and then immediately have to like

00:55:52   reauthorize myself and use Touch ID again. I don't think that's how it works.

00:55:56   Yeah, but that's the thing, I'm not sure. It's showing you the lock screen, but you haven't relocked your phone.

00:56:00   The promise, I confess that I am very bad at dealing with notifications. I don't understand where notifications go.

00:56:07   I see them and then I say where and I will like dismiss them or read them and I want

00:56:14   to see that notification again.

00:56:15   I'm hoping what this does is make it so notifications are in a single place and they stay there

00:56:20   forever and I can just scroll, scroll, scroll and go back through them at any time.

00:56:23   I'm not sure if that's true but that would be a usability improvement for me because

00:56:27   having notifications in multiple places and having them sort of, I don't know, auto dismiss

00:56:31   themselves or they go off into the cornfield, I don't know where they go but I can't find

00:56:36   them again and it's frustrating.

00:56:37   - Yeah, I mean it seems like every,

00:56:38   for the last few iOS releases,

00:56:40   they've messed with the lock screen

00:56:43   versus notification center because, you know,

00:56:45   ever since Touch ID got super fast, it got kinda weird,

00:56:48   and then they tried messing it with it another way

00:56:49   last year and now this year they're messing with it

00:56:51   a different way.

00:56:52   They're just trying to solve the problem

00:56:53   of how do you make these things continue to be sensible

00:56:57   with hardware advances and new UI trends

00:57:01   and as people, as these things get more advanced

00:57:02   and everything.

00:57:03   I think this is like the annual messing with the lock screen

00:57:07   type thing and well, whatever it is, it's probably fine

00:57:10   and we're all gonna get used to it in like a day.

00:57:12   There's gonna be a lot of complaining

00:57:13   but everyone will get used to it.

00:57:15   - So through the magic of iCloud,

00:57:18   I've noticed in our shared note

00:57:19   that we should talk about something that's awesome.

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00:59:04   in that one question field there to help support the show

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00:59:09   Thank you very much to Fracture for sponsoring our show.

00:59:12   (upbeat music)

00:59:14   - Maybe you should invite people into your house

00:59:16   and have them stare at you while you do the ad reads

00:59:18   on the show normally because you just nailed three in a row.

00:59:20   - I know, three in a row, well done, sir, well done.

00:59:23   (audience applauding)

00:59:26   That does not happen that often, so that's super exciting.

00:59:29   All right, we gotta pick up the pace

00:59:30   'cause we got a lot more to talk about,

00:59:31   so I'm gonna try to speed run through some stuff.

00:59:33   Live Photos has motion smoothing things, looping.

00:59:36   They didn't, I don't believe, have the like,

00:59:39   what is that Google app that was super cool,

00:59:41   that is super cool, that will take your motion photo

00:59:44   that's kind of blowing it around and kind of lock it down?

00:59:45   - No, I think they actually did that,

00:59:46   that kind of feature. - Does it do that?

00:59:47   - Yeah. - Okay.

00:59:48   - It does a few different features.

00:59:49   It does that, it does like the cinemagraph kind of thing

00:59:51   where you have like a motion thing

00:59:52   that kind of freezes the background.

00:59:54   And they also had the long exposure thing,

00:59:56   which kind of looks like that, but an distilled version.

00:59:58   There were a few different improvements there,

00:59:59   pretty cool.

01:00:00   - So here's my question about live photos,

01:00:01   which I don't have an answer to,

01:00:02   because it's stable on a W3C.

01:00:04   I think that they're using Heap for Live Photos,

01:00:08   and that every single frame of it is an H265 compressed,

01:00:13   that's why you can pick a keyframe.

01:00:15   You know how now we have a high res JPEG

01:00:16   and then this really low quality,

01:00:17   like MPEG animation for the live picture animation?

01:00:21   you would never want to say,

01:00:22   oh, I wanna replace my still image

01:00:24   with a frame from the crappy low res video

01:00:26   in a live picture.

01:00:27   Seems to me that in the new thing,

01:00:29   that it takes a series of 17 or 20 pictures

01:00:32   or whatever, how long it is,

01:00:33   and every single one of them

01:00:35   is exactly as if you'd taken a photo from your camera.

01:00:38   And that's why you can choose which frame you want.

01:00:40   It could be they're just letting you choose a key frame

01:00:42   and if you choose that one,

01:00:43   your thing looks all blurry and gross,

01:00:44   but I really hope that live photos are now heaped containers

01:00:48   and every single frame of them is max quality,

01:00:50   'cause that would be awesome.

01:00:52   - Yeah, that would be really nice.

01:00:53   And that might depend on new hardware

01:00:55   to be able to dump image data off the sensor

01:00:57   at that speed, at that resolution reliably,

01:01:00   but if they can do any part of that,

01:01:02   if they can just increase the frame rate

01:01:04   or increase the resolution of the video segment

01:01:06   on older hardware, on current phones or older phones,

01:01:08   that would be an awesome improvement.

01:01:10   - And they do have, they're gonna have hardware support

01:01:12   for H.265 on existing phones, so they could do the old way,

01:01:15   which is we'll take one really good JPEG or HEIF image

01:01:18   at super high res and then take an H.265 video

01:01:20   at higher res because now we can do that just to make live photos nicer.

01:01:25   Because very often live photos are really cute, but the live photo-y part, like the

01:01:29   animated part, is so much lower res and lower quality than the still image that it's kind

01:01:32   of disappointing.

01:01:33   Yeah.

01:01:34   So my speed run is going excellently.

01:01:35   Siri giving you...

01:01:36   It always does.

01:01:37   It always does.

01:01:38   Siri is giving you things, this is air quote, "Siri," is giving you things from other apps

01:01:43   and other places.

01:01:44   They use the example of some place in Iceland that I'm not going to try to pronounce.

01:01:47   So quote unquote Siri will see you interacting with like a webpage about Iceland and then

01:01:53   when you try to type that same name in an iMessage it will auto suggest it.

01:01:56   Looked cool, some machine learning stuff.

01:01:58   And also it will rat you out to Apple News because you go to Apple News and they'll be

01:02:01   like do you want some stories about Iceland?

01:02:03   I was like how do you know I'm interested in Iceland Apple News?

01:02:05   That was a little creepy.

01:02:06   I thought that was a little googly.

01:02:08   A little aggressive, a little aggressive.

01:02:09   All right so Maps has internal maps of malls which aren't going to exist in two years and

01:02:14   it also has.

01:02:15   Amazon's opening retail store, so they'll all be--

01:02:18   Oh, yeah.

01:02:19   Yeah, it's nothing but Apple stores.

01:02:20   And then internal airport maps of the inside

01:02:23   of the airport, terminal maps.

01:02:24   That's super cool.

01:02:25   Not my airport.

01:02:27   Of course not yours.

01:02:28   Of course.

01:02:29   Do not disturb while driving, two thumbs up.

01:02:31   I think that's really cool.

01:02:32   Is that going to be on by default?

01:02:34   Because that would be great.

01:02:34   I think it is.

01:02:35   Yeah, so I mean, this is the kind of thing like that.

01:02:37   I mean, that genuinely could save lives.

01:02:38   All right, so everyone who's applauding it,

01:02:39   you can all turn it on on your phones

01:02:41   and have everyone who texts you get that rude message back

01:02:43   that says, I'm driving now.

01:02:45   I'll send you, like--

01:02:47   - No, I think this is, but again,

01:02:48   this is kind of like the Apple Watch,

01:02:50   like annoyance of notifications thing.

01:02:52   Like, this is the kind of thing

01:02:53   that's an awesome thing to do.

01:02:55   It's, I assume it's gonna be on by default,

01:02:57   which is even more awesome.

01:02:58   My only hesitation of judging it is like,

01:03:01   will people leave it on in enough volume to matter?

01:03:04   And I think we all should.

01:03:06   You know, let's get started with our audience.

01:03:07   That's like a lot of people right there.

01:03:08   Let's get started and let's leave it on.

01:03:10   - Then like your mom tries to text you

01:03:11   and gets this rude message back and thinks you wrote it

01:03:14   because there's no indication in the UI

01:03:15   that you are literally not typing that.

01:03:16   And she's gonna say, "Well, if you're driving,

01:03:18   "how did you have time to write me this

01:03:19   (audience laughing)

01:03:22   "grammatically correct, correctly punctuated sentence?

01:03:25   "They should know it's not you

01:03:26   "because everything is spelled right."

01:03:27   - I know you were at a stoplight.

01:03:29   - I was gonna say, like, is your mom really like that?

01:03:31   But I thought, well, actually, I don't know your mom,

01:03:33   but she produced you, and so--

01:03:34   (audience laughing)

01:03:36   There's a chance--

01:03:37   - She sent me a grammar correction for a recent podcast.

01:03:40   - No way!

01:03:42   You don't say.

01:03:43   So yeah, so we're all going to, we're all friends here, and we're all going to agree

01:03:46   to leave, do not disturb while driving on. I also thought it's visually a little bit

01:03:50   kind of cheesy and ham-fisted, but the thing where you can say, you can reply, and I guess

01:03:56   if you have an urgent message, it'll say, "Hey, if this is really urgent, reply with

01:04:01   the word urgent," and the phone will let that bubble through.

01:04:04   All you're going to do is let your friends immediately type "urgent" to tell you, "I

01:04:07   caught this new Pokemon," and it's totally urgent. Like, who's, what is urgent, really?

01:04:12   If you tell them how to bypass it, and then you're going to look at your phone and see

01:04:16   that they caught a new Magikarp, and you're going to crash into a telephone pole.

01:04:19   Well, hopefully your friends are nice enough to know that they're taking your life into

01:04:24   their hands.

01:04:25   Your friends sound like jerks.

01:04:26   Wait, that's us!

01:04:27   Oh, God.

01:04:28   Oh, this took a dark turn.

01:04:31   Okay, so HomeKit speakers, AirPlay 2 is a thing.

01:04:36   Kind of telegraphing the end of the keynote there.

01:04:39   - Well yeah, but they have HomeKit now supports

01:04:41   a speaker type.

01:04:42   HomeKit was not renamed to Siri, I lost that bet as well.

01:04:45   I mean, I lost all my predictions.

01:04:47   But yeah, they have multi-room audio that's presumably

01:04:50   synced up and everything like Sonos.

01:04:52   Not the first time they took a dig at Sonos

01:04:54   during this keynote, but not surprising.

01:04:57   And I mean, they actually had multi-room audio

01:04:58   with the iTunes share thing forever ago.

01:05:02   So yeah, that's pretty nice.

01:05:04   I'm looking forward to there being the API for that

01:05:06   for third-party devs to presumably control.

01:05:09   That's actually the only thing on the overcast

01:05:12   to-do list so far of things I should integrate this summer.

01:05:15   I was expecting a lot more. - You fully support Sonos

01:05:16   just as they go out of business.

01:05:17   Good job, Marco.

01:05:18   (laughing)

01:05:20   Did they have a slide, or somebody tweeted something

01:05:22   and said they had a list of all the devices

01:05:24   that support AirPlay 2, or all the manufacturers

01:05:27   that are gonna support AirPlay 2,

01:05:28   so you can use this new, better protocol to talk to them,

01:05:30   and Sonos was not on that list.

01:05:32   - It doesn't support AirPlay 1, either.

01:05:33   So to do Sonos on an AirPlay, you basically have to

01:05:36   have an airport express that you run into the aux jack

01:05:39   of a quite pricey Sonos bridge product

01:05:42   that has an aux input.

01:05:44   And then the main problem with that is that then

01:05:46   AirPlay has a two second lag, Sonos adds its own lag

01:05:50   also for like another second or so.

01:05:52   So anything, it's like moving through maple syrup,

01:05:54   you like hit pause and then three seconds later it pauses.

01:05:56   It's not a great experience.

01:05:58   - It's not a sweet solution, is it?

01:06:00   So the ghost of ping is back, that's exciting.

01:06:05   - The cousin of Kinect, because we said Kinect,

01:06:08   and we go, Kinect is not like Ping.

01:06:10   I can't keep track of their social--

01:06:12   - Yeah, Kinect is like Twitter for artists,

01:06:14   and YouTube for artists, but both Twitter and YouTube

01:06:17   are way more popular than it was and is.

01:06:20   Is Kinect still there, or did they replace it

01:06:21   with whatever this new thing is?

01:06:22   - Well, so here's the thing.

01:06:23   It'll show you what your friends are listening to.

01:06:25   Your friends are listening to this,

01:06:26   your friends are listening to that.

01:06:27   Where is it getting your friends from?

01:06:28   (audience laughing)

01:06:30   Does Apple have a social graph?

01:06:31   I mean, they have your contacts, but,

01:06:34   I mean, that's what I'm saying.

01:06:35   It's another attempt for Apple to say,

01:06:37   please create a new social graph on the social network

01:06:39   that we, Apple, are creating and that will totally

01:06:41   be here six months from now.

01:06:42   And people don't want to make a new social graph.

01:06:45   It could get them from Twitter.

01:06:46   It can't really get them from contacts.

01:06:47   You have family, which is used for a lot of things.

01:06:49   But that's not-- you don't want to see what

01:06:50   your family's listening to.

01:06:52   And no one wants to see what I'm listening to.

01:06:54   No, that's a fact.

01:06:56   What does Marko want to do?

01:06:57   Just fish.

01:06:58   Nothing but fish.

01:06:59   All day long.

01:06:59   Hard coded string constant.

01:07:00   Yeah, seriously.

01:07:01   It really could be.

01:07:02   Music Kit so developers will have access to Apple Music

01:07:06   and iCloud library, which is really cool.

01:07:07   - That's pretty cool.

01:07:09   - Maybe I missed something, but Phil was really amped

01:07:13   about the new App Store and I'm really not.

01:07:16   Like I don't care.

01:07:18   (audience laughing)

01:07:19   - We just care if the search works and he didn't demo that,

01:07:21   so we don't know.

01:07:22   I guess if you're an app developer,

01:07:23   it's cool if you get featured, right?

01:07:25   And you have this big thing and your pages look nicer

01:07:28   and there'll be sessions during the week to say,

01:07:30   here's how you can support more stuff.

01:07:31   Like one of them had like a little award,

01:07:33   like this little film, what do you call it?

01:07:36   Film festival thing with the little ivy leaves

01:07:38   or whatever they're supposed to be around.

01:07:39   You can say this is a, someone in the audience said it

01:07:42   but I didn't hear it.

01:07:43   Laurels, there we go, thank you.

01:07:45   There probably is an API to put up the awards

01:07:50   or some sort of thing that your app won

01:07:51   at the top of your page.

01:07:52   - Wait, I can make my own awards and put them there?

01:07:54   - Yeah.

01:07:55   - All right, that's gonna quickly become useless

01:07:58   if that's what it is.

01:08:00   And also, by the way, Safari blocks auto-playing video.

01:08:04   But as you scroll through the new App Store app,

01:08:07   it's a little bit of auto-playing video.

01:08:09   And I'm pretty sure Safari's not blocking that one.

01:08:11   I think it'll be fine.

01:08:13   Your prediction was that they would revise the Mac App

01:08:15   Store, which is quite a laugh about that.

01:08:18   That was a long shot.

01:08:19   I said so.

01:08:20   Maybe they did.

01:08:21   I mean, they didn't show a lot of Mac OS.

01:08:22   High Sierra might have a--

01:08:24   Did they show any?

01:08:25   High Sierra?

01:08:26   I can't believe it's called that.

01:08:28   It's so bad, dude.

01:08:29   It's so bad.

01:08:30   - I'm not used to it yet, I don't know if I ever will be.

01:08:32   That's really bad.

01:08:33   - Anyway, I'm glad they revised the App Store app.

01:08:34   It's fine, it looks better than the old one,

01:08:36   and maybe the search will be better.

01:08:38   - And this is the kind of, it's like,

01:08:39   we're not really gonna know how it affects developers

01:08:42   until it's out there, because it's going

01:08:45   to change everything, we know that.

01:08:47   It's gonna change things like click-through rates,

01:08:48   and how effective search is or isn't for us.

01:08:51   It's gonna change purchase rates,

01:08:53   and it's gonna change a lot

01:08:54   because the entire UI is different.

01:08:56   The information density is way lower.

01:08:59   There's way fewer apps on screen at once.

01:09:00   That's gonna be a big effect in some direction.

01:09:03   The value of being featured is probably gonna be way higher

01:09:07   because those are fewer at a time

01:09:10   and there it's like a more in your face feature.

01:09:12   I do really like that they separated out games and apps.

01:09:16   That's really nice for both people,

01:09:19   both types of app makers there

01:09:20   because if you're looking for one,

01:09:22   you're probably not looking for the other at the same time.

01:09:24   So that should help people browsing both places

01:09:26   to have separate charts, separate features,

01:09:29   and not have to worry about seeing the kind of thing

01:09:31   you're not looking for right then.

01:09:32   - Yeah, there were a bunch of other things

01:09:34   that were on the screen of words

01:09:36   where some are white and some are gray.

01:09:38   - Yeah, the word cloud.

01:09:39   - Yeah, the word cloud.

01:09:40   Schedule a call, that's interesting.

01:09:42   - Yeah, a bunch of new resetting ratings.

01:09:44   - Oh, wait, are we moving on from the App Store already?

01:09:46   'Cause there's one other major feature

01:09:47   for the new App Store app.

01:09:48   Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is new.

01:09:51   In-app purchases are viewable on the App Store

01:09:54   as separately purchasable things.

01:09:56   Like they're in-app purchases that are not in-app.

01:09:59   This seems like a big deal because so the theory goes

01:10:01   that in-app purchases represent a lot of money

01:10:04   and you can only see them if you're in the app.

01:10:07   But now, I presume if you have an app

01:10:10   and the app offers an in-app purchase,

01:10:12   you will see that as a separately purchasable item

01:10:14   in the app store.

01:10:15   That seems like a big way to get more money

01:10:18   for in-app purchases to remind people if they go there,

01:10:20   oh, by the way, that app that you haven't launched

01:10:22   has an in-app purchase and it might bring you back

01:10:24   into the app and make you buy something.

01:10:26   That seems like a big deal to me.

01:10:28   - Yeah, so speed run's still going well.

01:10:30   So speaking of, Core ML, it's a thing, sounds cool.

01:10:34   ARKit, it's a thing, sounds cool.

01:10:36   - Wait, hold on, no, no, no.

01:10:37   That's, we're not gonna do that fast, come on.

01:10:39   - I'm trying, guys, I'm trying.

01:10:42   - No, I mean, this is all, this is one of those,

01:10:44   we can't wait to see what you do with the kind of things,

01:10:45   where that actually makes sense.

01:10:46   Most people can't, off the top of their head,

01:10:48   name a cool app that doesn't yet exist

01:10:51   that this nav makes possible, but there are a lot of them.

01:10:54   And it's the kind of thing where you're gonna have

01:10:55   some idea or you're gonna hear some idea person's awful idea and you're gonna say, "Oh, yeah,

01:11:01   but that would take like a hundred people staff and two hundred million dollars and

01:11:05   it isn't even possible in the API." Wait, it is now possible in the API, now you just

01:11:10   need the two hundred million dollars in the big staff.

01:11:12   Yeah, it'll all work out great.

01:11:13   Well, they had Pokemon Go as a perfect example which was already doing AR a bad job of it,

01:11:18   you know, but not that it's a core part of the game, but they would try to make your

01:11:20   Pokemon look like he's on the sidewalk, he's bouncing all over the place, now he'll be

01:11:23   firmly planted on the sidewalk, I'm sure they will seriously improve Pokémon Go experience.

01:11:27   Hurray. Everyone's still playing that, right? Yeah, totally. I also thought the demo was

01:11:32   really cool and very Firefly-esque, which of course spoke to me. That was pretty exciting.

01:11:37   But no, it does look cool, but I think we should probably skip forward to the iPad.

01:11:42   I guess. And there is a new iPad. So moving on. Just kidding, I'm just kidding. But no,

01:11:49   Interestingly, so the new 10-inch iPad does look really cool,

01:11:53   and the iPad features of iOS 11 did really appeal to me.

01:11:58   And some of the drag and drop stuff,

01:11:59   which we'll get to in a second, looks phenomenal.

01:12:02   The one thing about the 10-inch iPad, though,

01:12:05   is that we had all kind of concluded--

01:12:08   and it was Dan Provost that put this together,

01:12:09   I believe, a few months ago--

01:12:11   that what they would end up doing is making an iPad that

01:12:14   was the same resolution-- if I remember right,

01:12:17   I might be butchering the details here--

01:12:18   butchering the details here.

01:12:19   The same resolution as the 12.9 inch,

01:12:21   whatever it is, iPad Pro.

01:12:22   So you can basically have two iPad Mini side by side,

01:12:25   and that's what this 10 inch will be,

01:12:26   and they will get that by shrinking bezels, John,

01:12:30   shrinking bezels and doing all that sorts of magic.

01:12:32   But it's actually an in-between resolution,

01:12:35   between the 9. whatever inch iPad Pro,

01:12:39   then this, which is in the middle,

01:12:41   and the 12 inch iPad Pro, which is fine.

01:12:44   It seems like they've kept the density the same.

01:12:46   They're just clipping the edge of the screen

01:12:48   in a slightly different spot, but that seems weird to me.

01:12:52   Like how is that gonna work with size classes?

01:12:54   It's just a peculiar choice.

01:12:56   - It'll be fine.

01:12:57   I mean, I'm actually kinda glad they did that

01:12:59   because I think having the full 12.9 resolution

01:13:02   in that size screen would have made things

01:13:04   a little bit small, a little bit small touch targets,

01:13:06   a little bit small text for some people,

01:13:09   and so I think they probably made the right choice on that.

01:13:12   But I'm also very happy to see with this model

01:13:15   and with the new 12.9 update,

01:13:16   which I did not expect to happen,

01:13:18   that there's now no, there's no other glaring,

01:13:21   as far as I know yet, there's no other glaring

01:13:24   differences between those two sizes.

01:13:27   Last time it was like, well the 12.9 had USB 3.0

01:13:29   and fast charging, and the 9.7 had the better screen

01:13:33   and the true tone, and there were these weird differences

01:13:36   that they had, now they all seem to have the same features,

01:13:39   just two different sizes of the same features.

01:13:42   And that's really nice.

01:13:43   - I didn't get to look at the 12.9, which by the way,

01:13:44   I'm also glad that they're still doing the 12.9,

01:13:46   because now they have a reason to,

01:13:47   because it is a different res, but the 10.5,

01:13:49   no headphone jack.

01:13:51   What?

01:13:52   No headphone jack that I could find.

01:13:53   I held it in my hands, someone can look on the website now

01:13:56   and look it up, but I held it in my hands

01:13:57   and I wrote it around and I did not find a headphone jack.

01:13:59   Maybe I missed it.

01:13:59   They also moved the volume control and the power button

01:14:02   really close to the corners of the device.

01:14:06   I don't know why they did that.

01:14:07   I have to see what the inside of this thing looks like.

01:14:08   The SIM slot is way down in one of the corners as well.

01:14:10   But anyway, if you're afraid that the 10.5

01:14:12   is gonna feel too big if you have a current 9.7,

01:14:15   handling it just without a case by itself,

01:14:17   didn't feel that bad.

01:14:18   I think that's the next, I think that's the size

01:14:20   I will buy.

01:14:21   Probably have no choice because they're not gonna make

01:14:22   a 9.7 Pro, I'm assuming, going forward.

01:14:24   But it is a nice compromise size.

01:14:26   It is bigger, better, faster, but not,

01:14:29   it doesn't feel like a lunch tray.

01:14:31   Who knows, maybe I'll miss the 9.7 as time goes on.

01:14:34   And they made the little, I don't know,

01:14:37   weight-wise it felt kind of the same.

01:14:38   It's really hard to tell.

01:14:39   But if you're afraid that the 10.5 is gonna be too huge,

01:14:42   don't be afraid, go to your Apple Store visit

01:14:44   and try it out.

01:14:45   I think it will be extremely popular among the same crowd

01:14:48   that bought the 9.7 Pro.

01:14:50   - Yeah, it's gonna be like, this is the new iPad

01:14:52   that you should probably get.

01:14:53   Like, unless you really want one of those sizes,

01:14:56   you can either get like the old decrepit mini

01:14:59   or you can get the massive lunch tray.

01:15:01   - Or mini. - But if you really,

01:15:03   if you really don't have any specific need

01:15:06   for something super big or super small,

01:15:08   the 10.5 is the one to get.

01:15:10   - Oh, and-- - Unless you need it

01:15:11   to be super cheap, then you get the cheap 9.7

01:15:13   that came out last week or whatever.

01:15:14   HDR support, lots of display related things.

01:15:16   120 hertz refresh and HDR support,

01:15:19   which I was really surprised about.

01:15:21   Now HDR support is basically like,

01:15:22   you can put that label on anything

01:15:24   that gets brighter than normal.

01:15:25   Like I don't know if, like the full range

01:15:28   of like Dolby Vision HDR is an incredible brightness,

01:15:30   retina searing brightness, this does not reach that level,

01:15:33   but like a lot of HDR monitors for PCs and stuff,

01:15:35   as long as you go way brighter than normal monitor

01:15:37   and you can accept HDR input and display it in a nice way,

01:15:41   you get to call your hub HDR.

01:15:42   so I think this is probably middle of the road there.

01:15:45   But 120 hertz refresh, which is kind of weird

01:15:47   because in the old, the 12.9 inch,

01:15:50   the pencil was sampled at 120 hertz,

01:15:54   but the screen still refreshed at 60

01:15:55   and now they just synced it all up, it's 120 everywhere.

01:15:58   And then finally on the refresh rate front,

01:15:59   they advertise the fact that you can do

01:16:02   different refresh rates for videos.

01:16:03   If you're watching a 48 frames per second

01:16:06   or 24 frames per second video,

01:16:08   the display will refresh at that rate as well,

01:16:10   which is kind of depressing for me

01:16:12   I want the Apple TV to put out 24 frames.

01:16:14   So I can watch on my big fancy TV,

01:16:17   but I won't get the right frame cadence,

01:16:19   so I guess I'll just watch everything through Plex.

01:16:21   Plex will probably support 24 frames per second cadence

01:16:24   before the Apple TV does,

01:16:25   so I'll just watch everything on my 10.5 inch iPad Pro.

01:16:28   - And that will just teach everyone

01:16:29   you should be using Plex.

01:16:30   I actually have, I have real time follow up.

01:16:34   I am not kidding.

01:16:35   It turns out, ladies and gentlemen,

01:16:37   that the 10.5 inch does have a headphone jack,

01:16:40   and apparently it is way, way, way in the corner,

01:16:42   or so I'm being told.

01:16:43   So it is supposedly there.

01:16:45   - I could not find it.

01:16:47   Wow, that is far in the corner.

01:16:49   Is it on the bottom?

01:16:50   - I don't know.

01:16:50   - Yeah.

01:16:51   - But let's--

01:16:52   - No, it's on the top.

01:16:53   That's why I couldn't find it.

01:16:54   - They've always been on the top.

01:16:55   - I don't know, I was thinking of it like a big phone.

01:16:57   Okay, my bad.

01:16:58   - So I'm curious.

01:16:59   I saw during the keynote when they were talking

01:17:00   about the 120 hertz frame rate now,

01:17:03   now that's the actual display frame rate,

01:17:05   or at least it can be.

01:17:06   I noticed a few people who would probably have seen it

01:17:10   inside of Apple, tweeting about how that is game changing

01:17:14   and it's just so amazing to have a 120 hertz refresh rate.

01:17:18   In the hands-on, were you able to get an idea of that?

01:17:20   Like how did that seem?

01:17:22   Did you notice it?

01:17:23   - So I wasn't using it.

01:17:24   I was there with Federico and I naturally stepped back

01:17:28   because I didn't want to lose an arm.

01:17:29   But I did see Federico scrolling it.

01:17:33   And I don't know if I would call it like earth-shattering,

01:17:36   life-changing, et cetera,

01:17:37   but it definitely looked really good.

01:17:40   - I'm gonna call placebo effect on a lot of this.

01:17:42   - Maybe, maybe.

01:17:42   - If people who are into the video game scene

01:17:43   know the debates about frame rate,

01:17:45   like at what frame rate can you still see the difference?

01:17:47   Obviously, the gamers are like, I can see 60 and 30.

01:17:50   Yes, we can all see 60, 30 difference.

01:17:51   Once you get above 60, 70, 80, 90,

01:17:55   can you tell the difference between 120 and 110?

01:17:57   Can you tell the difference between 60 and 120?

01:17:59   Some people say they can, but if you double-blinded this,

01:18:01   I bet a lot of people, like 60 is around the limit

01:18:03   that most people can't tell any faster.

01:18:05   Not that I'm saying it shouldn't be 120.

01:18:07   It totally should be, especially since it syncs up

01:18:09   with the pencil input and it just makes more sense

01:18:11   from that perspective, but I don't know.

01:18:14   This is another thing we'll have to research.

01:18:16   Frame rate's over 60, can humans tell the difference

01:18:18   or just very special people who have gold-plated audio cables

01:18:22   that the oxygen removed?

01:18:23   (audience laughing)

01:18:24   - I wonder too, is it the kind of thing where maybe

01:18:28   the frame rate you might not be able to tell exactly,

01:18:31   but maybe because there would just be less latency

01:18:34   between when you move your finger and when the screen

01:18:36   has the frame to update, maybe you notice that?

01:18:39   - I threw out that number, like 20 milliseconds.

01:18:41   There was that post I did at this point years ago.

01:18:44   - That was just for the pencil.

01:18:45   - About refresh rate, remember it was a Microsoft project

01:18:48   where they were showing different refresh rates.

01:18:50   They could calibrate it and say,

01:18:52   "Here's what 100 millisecond lag looks like."

01:18:54   And they would crank it down, down, down

01:18:55   to like one millisecond.

01:18:57   And I think one was the bottom.

01:18:58   And it was amazingly different than 20 or 50 or 100.

01:19:01   So 20 is great, but there's still headroom.

01:19:04   And yeah, if they're doing 120 hertz

01:19:06   to get the latency down, that is 100% worth it,

01:19:08   and if nobody can tell the difference in the frame rate,

01:19:10   because every little bit of latency you will detect

01:19:12   and it will feel nicer.

01:19:14   - So the hardware looks great,

01:19:15   it seems to level the playing field,

01:19:17   one of you guys had said earlier,

01:19:18   between the different devices.

01:19:19   It has the iPhone 7 cameras, which is great,

01:19:21   although if you're taking pictures with your iPad,

01:19:23   you're a big jerk, especially the 12 inch.

01:19:25   - You haven't come around on that yet?

01:19:27   I've now become like, you know, that's fine.

01:19:29   If you wanna take pictures with your iPad,

01:19:31   you wanna take portrait video.

01:19:32   - Were you in High Sierra earlier?

01:19:33   Anyway.

01:19:34   (audience laughing)

01:19:35   So the capacities have been doubled, which is great.

01:19:38   It's good things all around.

01:19:40   It looks really awesome.

01:19:41   And we should talk about the updates in iOS 11

01:19:45   because holy smokes, they look great.

01:19:48   Like I just bought a MacBook Adorable.

01:19:51   Did I tell you?

01:19:51   I'm excited.

01:19:52   I just bought a MacBook Adorable

01:19:53   because I don't wanna use an iPad anymore.

01:19:55   But holy crap, these things look awesome.

01:19:56   Like this looks super, super cool.

01:19:58   And I don't even know where to begin.

01:20:00   Like the drag and drop just seems so well thought out

01:20:03   and so well executed from top to bottom,

01:20:06   I am genuinely deeply, deeply impressed

01:20:08   at what they're showing, and I hope it works as well

01:20:11   as they've been demonstrating.

01:20:12   - So these are all, these are like pro-level features to me,

01:20:15   which is exactly what we wanted.

01:20:15   We wanted like the pro-level features that,

01:20:17   that you know, people who want to be more productive,

01:20:20   who are already doing these weird makeshift systems

01:20:22   to do the tasks that they can now accomplish

01:20:24   much more easily, but kind of like drag and drop on the Mac,

01:20:28   where we take all this for granted,

01:20:30   I think most people don't do the breath-holding maneuvers,

01:20:33   any operation in the UI where you initiate

01:20:37   and you have to hold your breath

01:20:38   and then you can do other things,

01:20:40   but you're holding, because if you let go,

01:20:42   then everything just scatters to the four winds, right?

01:20:44   And so it's like that with drag and drop

01:20:46   where if you're an experienced Mac user

01:20:48   and the Mac OS X error where you

01:20:51   ban select a bunch of files in the Finder,

01:20:53   grab them, slam your mouse cursor into the corner

01:20:55   to slide away and show mission control or whatever

01:21:00   and hover onto another application

01:21:01   and have it move to the front and move over a window

01:21:03   and it pops forward, like those type of operations,

01:21:06   regular people don't do those most of the time.

01:21:07   Like they find another way to do it.

01:21:09   They do a simple drag from one location,

01:21:11   but they don't do grab a bunch of stuff

01:21:13   and then manipulate, manipulate, manipulate,

01:21:15   drop into place, because there's so many places

01:21:16   things can go wrong and you can accidentally

01:21:18   drop it in the wrong place or whatever.

01:21:19   So these are definitely pro features,

01:21:21   but almost everything, I was struck by almost everything

01:21:24   that they were talking about, how look,

01:21:25   the rest of your UI is responsive

01:21:27   and your app gets the events and so on and so forth,

01:21:29   are things that we've taken for granted

01:21:31   on the Mac platform for literally decades.

01:21:33   Yes, of course, when you're initiating drag

01:21:35   and the drag manager is going,

01:21:36   of course you can do other things in the OS.

01:21:37   You can Alt+Tab, you can go hover over Windows

01:21:39   and stuff like that, and it's kind of like

01:21:41   Marco snarkily tweeted, it turns out desktop operating

01:21:43   systems had a bunch of good ideas after all, didn't they?

01:21:46   - Yeah, it's like, this is the future of computing.

01:21:48   Everyone at the iPad's the future of computing.

01:21:49   Well, the future of computing, so far,

01:21:51   everyone's now celebrating it got a huge step forward

01:21:53   by adding a whole bunch of stuff from the past of computing.

01:21:56   - But they do have, I mean, the advantage they have now,

01:21:58   I think, and they demoed it, and again,

01:21:59   this is why I was talking about it in the last show,

01:22:00   how a sort of a grab and then pop forward stuff

01:22:03   is actually better on a big screen,

01:22:04   you have a second hand,

01:22:05   whereas you don't have a second mouse

01:22:06   that you can grab onto.

01:22:07   So now you grab a bunch of things

01:22:09   and your second hand can fully manipulate the UI

01:22:11   to do whatever you wanna do

01:22:13   to get to the point where you can drop it.

01:22:15   So I think it is very impressive,

01:22:16   and except it was what we were looking for,

01:22:18   pro-level features, and as Casey said,

01:22:20   the API, I mean, it's clearly an API created by a company

01:22:23   that has done like three different drag managers

01:22:25   over the past several decades.

01:22:26   Like they know what they're doing,

01:22:27   and building it into all the default classes,

01:22:29   and especially since most people do use the default classes

01:22:32   on iOS instead of rolling their own

01:22:33   because the default classes are really good,

01:22:35   means they can do that demo of like,

01:22:36   "Look, I can drag this tech snippet into Slack."

01:22:38   And Slack has no idea what the hell the drag manager is

01:22:40   because they use standard controls, it just works.

01:22:42   - Yeah, it was super, super impressive.

01:22:44   And we could probably go through every single one

01:22:46   of these things line by line,

01:22:47   but we wanna leave here today.

01:22:49   No, the drag and drop looks great.

01:22:51   I was super impressed by all of it.

01:22:53   And I'm really excited to try using all this stuff.

01:22:58   I didn't really have time in the hands-on area.

01:22:59   I'm sure all of you are probably, a lot of you anyway,

01:23:02   are silly enough to run a beta even on your iPad.

01:23:04   - On what iPad are you going to try?

01:23:05   - I have my iPad mini.

01:23:07   I was using it all day long, thank you very much.

01:23:09   It's delightful.

01:23:09   - Can it do a lot of this stuff?

01:23:11   - I honestly don't know, but to that end,

01:23:12   the iOS 11 does support way, way, way back

01:23:16   in terms of hardware, which was impressive.

01:23:18   - Yeah, I'm sure some of this stuff is pro only,

01:23:19   where there's limits.

01:23:20   Like maybe you can't do, it probably doesn't have enough RAM

01:23:22   to have all the apps on, you know, I'm sure there's different.

01:23:24   - For a brief second when they said,

01:23:25   and we're doubling the memory, for a brief second I said,

01:23:28   - Really, they're gonna have eight gigs of RAM?

01:23:29   Oh, nevermind.

01:23:30   (laughing)

01:23:31   Seriously.

01:23:32   So can we get a ruling though?

01:23:33   Now again, I haven't played with this,

01:23:35   but it appears as though you can do some sort of like

01:23:38   floaty sort of sidebar-y thing

01:23:41   in addition to side-by-side apps.

01:23:43   Are we in windowing at this point?

01:23:45   Like have we crossed that uncanny valley into windowing?

01:23:48   - You're never gonna call it that.

01:23:50   - Right, but are we there?

01:23:50   - But it's basically a simplified version of windowing, yeah.

01:23:54   - Exactly.

01:23:55   - But you just can't define the sizes.

01:23:56   - It's a weird limited tiling window manager.

01:23:58   - Yeah, right.

01:24:00   - Which I think is appropriate for the form factor

01:24:02   because people, there's no controls on Windows,

01:24:04   there's no way to resize them or rearrange them,

01:24:06   but they are not shying away from,

01:24:08   there's a rectangle that belongs to another app

01:24:10   on top of a rectangle that belongs to a different app

01:24:13   and they're embracing that.

01:24:14   Although, I'm not quite sure, like you mentioned

01:24:17   that iOS 11 would be about rounded rectangles

01:24:18   floating over things, sure enough,

01:24:20   there's a lot of rounded rectangles

01:24:21   floating over things in this.

01:24:22   What benefit do we get?

01:24:24   I guess they have to show that it is not in split view.

01:24:26   Like they're wasting pixels to show you

01:24:28   the little border thing around, I don't know.

01:24:31   I'm sure it will work a lot better than the current system,

01:24:33   but especially the fact that you can go

01:24:34   to the multitasking switcher and see all your different,

01:24:37   I don't know, they're calling it spaces or whatever.

01:24:38   That seems like a big improvement

01:24:40   over the current terrible multitasking switcher.

01:24:42   - And it's a hard thing to design

01:24:44   because iOS apps are designed,

01:24:46   like there's no window borders in iOS.

01:24:48   There's no title bars, there's no window chrome.

01:24:51   iOS apps are designed to be full screen.

01:24:54   And most of the time in use, that's what they are.

01:24:57   So to design a feature like this in the OS,

01:25:00   it's actually not trivial to have visual design

01:25:03   that makes sense where the borders of apps

01:25:06   actually look reasonable and are easy to see

01:25:08   that they are borders, but doesn't look like

01:25:10   overly skeuomorphic with big shadows.

01:25:12   It's a hard problem to solve.

01:25:14   They did it in iOS 9's multitasking,

01:25:16   they did just like the big border lines

01:25:19   that you would drag around and everything.

01:25:20   and now I think they still have a similar one

01:25:22   for the side by side, but now they have the float over,

01:25:25   and they still have picture in picture,

01:25:27   which is a little rounded thing,

01:25:28   so a whole bunch of different options now.

01:25:31   It's gonna be a little confusing getting used

01:25:32   to all this stuff, but the best thing about this,

01:25:36   I'm not looking at any of the particular details of this

01:25:39   and saying, oh, that's great or that's terrible.

01:25:42   I'm just glad that they have done something here.

01:25:45   They have all somewhere to work out the minor kinks,

01:25:47   and they're gonna have the next couple years,

01:25:48   hopefully to work out any bigger ones in different updates.

01:25:51   But the fact that they have finally, for iPad people,

01:25:55   like this is like the biggest finally ever,

01:25:56   like they've finally taken the system that they started

01:26:01   in a really basic way two years ago

01:26:04   and have let basically unchanged since,

01:26:05   they have finally given it, like they fleshed it out,

01:26:08   they've given it more, they've indicated not only by,

01:26:12   you know, not only have they added nice features,

01:26:13   but they now also indicated to iPad Pro users

01:26:16   that this is the kind of thing

01:26:18   that we intend to keep moving forward,

01:26:20   that we're not done,

01:26:21   that what you got with iOS 9 isn't it forever.

01:26:23   We're gonna keep moving this forward,

01:26:25   and in so many ways,

01:26:27   they are making the iPad like a Mac.

01:26:30   And they're never gonna really say that,

01:26:33   and they're doing new, edited versions of these features

01:26:37   with 20 years of wisdom accumulated and things like that,

01:26:41   but they really are making this more and more Mac-like.

01:26:44   and it seems like for all of iOS users,

01:26:47   talking about how much they hate using Macs,

01:26:50   it seems like what they wanted was the iPad

01:26:51   to become more like the Mac.

01:26:53   - Okay, so we should move on before we get stoned.

01:26:56   So anyway, so it does look really great.

01:26:59   I'm really excited about it.

01:27:00   There's a bunch of other stuff

01:27:01   that we're gonna kinda have to gloss over

01:27:02   because I think before we go,

01:27:04   we should definitely talk about

01:27:06   the end of the keynote in music.

01:27:08   So before we move on, are there any other iPad thoughts

01:27:11   that we just cannot resist talking about right now?

01:27:13   Okay, good.

01:27:14   - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:27:19   - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:27:24   - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

01:27:29   no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

01:27:34   no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

01:27:39   no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

01:27:43   and once you learn maybe,

01:27:43   but it doesn't seem particularly discoverable,

01:27:45   'cause it's not the entry point for--

01:27:48   - Yeah, it is kind of like a junk drawer of features,

01:27:50   but if you know they're there, it's a really great app.

01:27:53   And it has a few rough edges,

01:27:55   but overall it's pretty great.

01:27:57   So very happy to see that.

01:27:58   All the handwriting stuff with the pencil,

01:28:00   that's a lot of major enhancements

01:28:02   for both iPad note-taking in general,

01:28:05   and also just the Notes app itself.

01:28:07   That's pretty cool.

01:28:07   That deserves a big thumbs up from me.

01:28:09   - Did we ever find out if the pencil

01:28:10   can still manipulate the UI?

01:28:12   - Yes.

01:28:12   - All right, there we go. - Yes, it can.

01:28:13   - The answer is yes, it can.

01:28:14   - Well, there's a switch, I believe.

01:28:15   And I don't know if there was,

01:28:17   but there certainly seems to be a switch

01:28:19   that lets you either manipulate everything

01:28:20   or just drawing.

01:28:21   - We're gonna get so much feedback.

01:28:22   - Oh yeah, I know.

01:28:23   - Next week, all follow-up.

01:28:25   It's nobody's surprise.

01:28:26   - So just so you're aware.

01:28:28   No, the iPads look great, iOS 11.

01:28:30   Genuinely looks awesome, I'm really stoked.

01:28:32   So one last thing, not one more thing,

01:28:35   but one last thing.

01:28:36   - That was a little iffy.

01:28:37   - I think it was respectful, I approve it.

01:28:39   - Oh, okay, it's been decided.

01:28:42   It has been decided.

01:28:43   - I'll allow it.

01:28:45   - The best part is, one last thing, music,

01:28:47   and the whole crowd goes, ugh.

01:28:49   - I don't know why they went, ugh.

01:28:50   The people who went, ugh, obviously didn't listen

01:28:52   to the last couple episodes of ATB,

01:28:54   where of course the thing was gonna be about music.

01:28:56   It was just a question of what they chose to emphasize.

01:28:58   I think all the way through the HomePod thing,

01:29:00   people were like, so is this just music or whatever?

01:29:02   And at the end, they came in with the big slide

01:29:04   that said, no, it's what you think it is.

01:29:06   - No, but this was before it was even announced.

01:29:07   This is like the one more thing,

01:29:09   and we're all expecting a Siri speaker,

01:29:11   And then music.

01:29:13   Well, of course, how can I advertise a Siri speaker?

01:29:15   What do you play on your Siri speaker?

01:29:16   Podcasts?

01:29:17   I mean, that's crazy, though.

01:29:18   - Apparently not.

01:29:19   - Apparently you can, because they didn't mention it.

01:29:21   - If you use an inferior app.

01:29:22   - Do you know the answer to that?

01:29:23   By the way, we were asking that before, Marcus.

01:29:24   Well, you need to come to the conference with us

01:29:25   so we can ask you these questions.

01:29:27   - Sorry.

01:29:27   - So the HomePod can play podcasts.

01:29:30   Can it only play them if you are subscribed to them

01:29:32   in the Apple podcast app?

01:29:33   - We don't know at all.

01:29:34   I don't think anybody knows that yet.

01:29:35   - It's gonna be sad if that's true.

01:29:37   - So first of all, credit to Apple for,

01:29:40   as far as I remember, not having an awkward music demo this year.

01:29:44   That's true.

01:29:45   That's a very good point.

01:29:47   The times, they are a-changing.

01:29:49   Yeah.

01:29:50   Well, I'm going to count that thing where

01:29:52   they showed the waveforms coming out of the speakers.

01:29:54   They were supposed to illustrate something to us.

01:29:58   At least no one danced.

01:30:00   Yeah, we didn't see any QDance.

01:30:02   Whoever-- we have to reset all the bets for the shirt button

01:30:05   thing.

01:30:06   So overall, nicely omitted from the keynote.

01:30:10   Also, I was happy to see in this keynote

01:30:12   not a heavy reliance on videos.

01:30:15   Like there were some, but I think it was a healthy amount.

01:30:17   - There's no time, no time for videos, gotta talk fast.

01:30:20   - And they've relied on them

01:30:20   a little bit too much in the past, so that was good to see.

01:30:22   But one last thing, Apple Music, blah, blah, blah.

01:30:25   And then, okay, now, Siri Speaker,

01:30:27   and it's called HomePod.

01:30:30   - I'm not that spotted by this.

01:30:31   - Listen, listen, we all got on board with MacBook,

01:30:33   which I think is a worse name than HomePod.

01:30:35   HomePod will be fine, we will be so used to it

01:30:37   in like three months.

01:30:38   I don't think HomePod is bad.

01:30:40   I don't know, maybe I just don't--

01:30:41   - I mean, we always get used to Apple's bad names for things.

01:30:44   - Hi, Sierra?

01:30:44   - Well, what would you have called it?

01:30:46   Would you have called it Siri Speaker?

01:30:47   'Cause that's worse than HomePod.

01:30:49   - I don't know.

01:30:50   I haven't put a lot of thought into it, actually.

01:30:51   Maybe, I mean, there has to be,

01:30:53   that can't possibly be the best name they could have used.

01:30:55   - I think it's okay.

01:30:57   - I think it's fine.

01:30:58   But anyway, so they said basically

01:31:00   you can have a smart speaker or you can have,

01:31:03   what was the other thing?

01:31:04   - Amazon Echo.

01:31:04   - By the way, like, shock of,

01:31:06   to me, I think one of the biggest shocks

01:31:08   is that they actually put a Sonos and an Amazon Echo

01:31:11   on the slide. - They didn't erase

01:31:12   the word Sonos, like sometimes they show a device

01:31:14   but erase the branding, yeah.

01:31:15   - No, they were ice cold, like here's these two products

01:31:18   that suck in these ways.

01:31:19   (laughing)

01:31:20   That was like, they pulled no punches on that.

01:31:23   That was quite interesting to see.

01:31:25   But yeah, and I think that what they were saying

01:31:28   was basically the market's opinion of these things,

01:31:30   which is basically, yeah, Sonos has great sound,

01:31:33   but the downsides to it are it's pretty expensive

01:31:36   and it doesn't have any kind of voice control.

01:31:37   And then Amazon Echo has crap sound,

01:31:41   but it's pretty convenient

01:31:42   and it has pretty good voice control

01:31:44   and doesn't have any multi-room stuff like Sonos does.

01:31:46   And so by them coming in with the HomePod

01:31:50   and adding, what they're basically doing

01:31:53   is they're basically attacking Sonos head on

01:31:55   with a little bit of Amazon Echo attacking.

01:31:58   I think the people at Sonos should be more upset by this

01:32:02   than the people at Amazon

01:32:03   because they're focusing strongly on music

01:32:07   for lots of reasons probably right now,

01:32:09   but they're focusing very strongly on music.

01:32:12   As far as I can tell, did they say,

01:32:14   is there gonna be any kind of Siri kit integration with it?

01:32:18   Do we know that? - I don't think we know.

01:32:19   - There's a few nods in the audience.

01:32:20   - That was another place where the Siri thing was weird

01:32:22   because they, so much emphasis on music,

01:32:24   which I think is smart 'cause it plays to their strengths,

01:32:27   but so little emphasis on talking to the thing.

01:32:30   There was one slide, oh, you can talk to it

01:32:31   and ask this bunch of stuff, yada, yada, yada,

01:32:33   - No third party. - And it's way better,

01:32:34   we promise, Wink.

01:32:36   - No screen, no apps, no developer story,

01:32:38   as far as I can see.

01:32:40   - Yeah, I was very surprised to see it didn't have a screen.

01:32:42   Like, now that we're seeing what's coming out from Amazon,

01:32:44   and then presumably the next Google air freshener

01:32:46   will have one too, like, there's a lot of value, I think,

01:32:50   I mean, I haven't tried any of these things yet

01:32:51   with the screen, but I think there's a lot of value

01:32:53   to having a screen on a device

01:32:55   that's like a home assistant thing.

01:32:57   Like, if you look at the way, you know,

01:32:58   the HomePod seems to be designed for your living room.

01:33:02   And in that kind of context,

01:33:03   I can see a screen being less useful

01:33:05   'cause you're probably not gonna be using it

01:33:06   as a timer and stuff.

01:33:07   But for the kitchen, which is where the Echo

01:33:09   has really shown to be very useful,

01:33:11   a screen would be nice to see things like

01:33:13   your timer statuses and the current weather

01:33:16   as you're walking by in the morning and stuff like that.

01:33:17   So to not have that kind of focus

01:33:21   and to be coming in at a premium price point,

01:33:23   coming at $350, that's a pretty healthy price point there.

01:33:28   They're really attacking Sonos mostly

01:33:31   because Soto's speaker started about two or 300 bucks

01:33:34   and they go up from there.

01:33:35   I don't know how well this is going to sell.

01:33:41   I think the tech press is probably gonna rate them

01:33:44   over the coals for the price compared to the competitors.

01:33:47   I'm probably gonna buy one,

01:33:48   you're probably gonna make fun of me.

01:33:51   - I don't know, it looks pretty good.

01:33:52   - We're all gonna buy one, Casey's gonna buy one.

01:33:53   I said during the video.

01:33:54   - Why are you so confident, I mean you're right,

01:33:55   but why are you so confident about this?

01:33:58   - 'Cause as soon as I saw that on the screen,

01:33:59   I'm like you are absolutely,

01:34:00   the marketing pitch works on you.

01:34:02   Them pitching it as a music thing, you're like,

01:34:05   well, I don't want one of those cylinders do I talk to,

01:34:06   but this is just an awesome way to play music.

01:34:08   And so you're going to get one.

01:34:10   But it doesn't have that rich vinyl-- no, never mind.

01:34:12   No.

01:34:13   But no, it does have that warmth that I'm used to.

01:34:16   No, it does look really good.

01:34:17   And I probably will buy one, to be honest with you.

01:34:20   No, I think it looked awesome.

01:34:21   I think that-- I saw one in the hands-on area very briefly.

01:34:25   We did not hear it, but we saw both the black and the white.

01:34:27   They both look great.

01:34:28   John made a very funny comment, though,

01:34:30   that there's this not insignificant cable coming out

01:34:33   of the back of this thing.

01:34:34   And in the Apple hands-on area, there's

01:34:35   a hole in the table that it goes through,

01:34:37   which is super convenient for Apple.

01:34:39   And so it's not going to be quite so beautiful and bespoke

01:34:44   in my house.

01:34:44   It's a pretty thick power cable.

01:34:46   It's more like the power cable to your Mac,

01:34:48   like a big cylindrical thing.

01:34:49   It's less like just a little thing with a wall

01:34:52   ward or whatever.

01:34:52   Anyway, I think it'll be fine.

01:34:53   It's also a little bit chunkier.

01:34:55   It is chunkier than the Google Home.

01:34:59   It looks fat.

01:35:00   - Well, and there's no great way

01:35:02   to make a tiny speaker sound good.

01:35:05   So I don't mind it getting a little bit bigger.

01:35:07   Like the Sonos Play One, their smallest speaker,

01:35:09   is chunkier than the Echo.

01:35:11   It's shorter but fatter.

01:35:12   And I think it's great.

01:35:14   The Sonos Play One sounds awesome.

01:35:16   And a lot of Apple's features

01:35:17   with measuring the room, response, and everything else,

01:35:20   that's a lot of Sonos Play Book for years.

01:35:23   It's probably gonna sound great, right?

01:35:25   - Yeah, and it appears as though

01:35:28   it's going to sound phenomenal,

01:35:29   and I am really anxious to hear one and try one out.

01:35:33   And I don't know that I necessarily have a place in my home

01:35:37   that I am in desperate need of a new speaker,

01:35:41   but that being said, this is appealing enough to me

01:35:44   just in principle, and I trust Apple to, of all things,

01:35:47   understand how to make music sound good,

01:35:50   that to me, I'm like, well, okay, this is an insta-buy.

01:35:52   This is just gonna have to happen.

01:35:53   - The same intro price as the iPod Hi-Fi too.

01:35:56   It was also $349, it turns out.

01:35:58   - Yeah, and honestly, I think it is probably

01:36:01   gonna be a good product, but I do have concerns,

01:36:04   first of all, that is pretty expensive for this market.

01:36:06   Again, they're really going after Sonos, not the Echo.

01:36:09   The Echo and the Google Home are always

01:36:11   gonna be cheaper than this, and I don't see Apple

01:36:13   playing like a race to the bottom price game

01:36:15   on this product, I see this being a nice

01:36:16   profit center for them, and to make high-end stuff only,

01:36:19   and by positioning themselves pretty much only against Sonos,

01:36:23   then they kind of avoid having to compete

01:36:25   in the super low margin stuff.

01:36:27   But they're gonna be better on privacy

01:36:29   than Amazon and Google.

01:36:30   As predicted, sound quality's gonna be great.

01:36:34   I think overall, many of us are gonna have these,

01:36:37   but it's gonna be market size-wise

01:36:41   more like the airport extreme than the Apple TV.

01:36:46   - Well, the marketing push was for music, right?

01:36:49   But if you look at the hardware,

01:36:50   it's got a whole bunch of microphones in it.

01:36:53   It is well-equipped, hardware-wise,

01:36:56   to do everything that the Echo does.

01:36:58   - And the A8 as well.

01:36:59   I mean, it's powered by an iPhone processor,

01:37:01   which is not as well.

01:37:02   - It is powerful, it's expansive.

01:37:04   - But still, though.

01:37:05   - So because the hardware is well-equipped to do that,

01:37:08   they didn't emphasize it, and we all just assume

01:37:10   it will be worse at answering your questions

01:37:12   than the Echo and the Google things,

01:37:15   which is why they're wise not to emphasize it.

01:37:17   But say many years pass and they get better at that part,

01:37:19   there's no reason they can't make a cheaper model

01:37:22   they decide to compete on price, tone down the speakers,

01:37:24   make the one that is focused more on answering your questions

01:37:28   and being a voice assistant, and less on playing music

01:37:31   with high fidelity, and then they're right in that market.

01:37:33   It's just a question of, like as they listed on that big thing,

01:37:36   all the things you can do, you can set timers, have reminders,

01:37:38   ask it questions, and just like, all the things they said it can do

01:37:41   are the things that Google Home and Amazon Echo do.

01:37:44   We just all assume that Apple does them worse.

01:37:47   And them not demoing them at all doesn't help us get, you know,

01:37:50   So they didn't even try to show off or say,

01:37:53   they didn't touch it at all.

01:37:54   You would be forgiven for thinking that this thing

01:37:57   doesn't do anything except for play music,

01:37:58   but it does everything that all the other devices do.

01:38:01   So I think they have left the door open

01:38:04   to come after Google Home and Amazon

01:38:06   whenever the heck they can get their act together

01:38:08   to actually be competitive in that.

01:38:10   And who knows, maybe they're already competitive

01:38:11   in that area, we don't know, they never even demoed

01:38:13   or never talked about it, it was just a word cloud.

01:38:15   - I mean, the impression I get is that this is still

01:38:17   in a very early stage of development.

01:38:19   Like, I mean, it isn't even coming out until December,

01:38:21   which raises the question of if the,

01:38:24   this is a product that has apparently no developer support,

01:38:27   no thing that anybody can do between now

01:38:30   and when it comes out,

01:38:31   and there's gonna be a September event, presumably,

01:38:34   where they announce new iPhones and stuff,

01:38:36   why did they announce this now?

01:38:37   - That's an interesting point, I didn't think about that.

01:38:39   - We should've opened up the hardware,

01:38:39   see if there's anything inside there.

01:38:41   Is it just empty shells?

01:38:42   (laughing)

01:38:43   You can look at the hardware and it had little lights,

01:38:44   like they do the same thing as Google Home

01:38:45   with like colored LEDs on the top,

01:38:47   showing through with the Siri logo-y type thing.

01:38:49   So it looked like finished-ish hardware.

01:38:54   - Yeah, but overall, let's kind of wrap this up.

01:38:58   Impressions of the keynote, I thought it was really good.

01:39:01   I'm a little, concerned is too strong a word,

01:39:04   but I feel like it was a lot of catch up

01:39:07   or like things that we maybe expected

01:39:09   to happen a long time ago,

01:39:10   particularly with like the iPad productivity enhancements.

01:39:13   That said, it was still a very impressive keynote.

01:39:17   And we got hardware that I would have told you,

01:39:20   as I think I said to somebody, as we're sitting in the keynote,

01:39:22   there's no way we're going to get a whole bunch of hardware

01:39:23   today.

01:39:24   I finally gave Apple a bunch of my money,

01:39:26   which is really exciting, sort of.

01:39:28   And so we got a lot of hardware.

01:39:32   We got iPads.

01:39:32   We got Macs.

01:39:33   The playing field has been leveled within each

01:39:36   of these lines for the most part.

01:39:37   It's a level playing field in the iPad world.

01:39:39   Sorry, Minnie.

01:39:40   It's a level playing field in the Mac world.

01:39:42   Sorry, iPad Air.

01:39:43   And Minnie.

01:39:44   Yeah.

01:39:45   And yet, I mean, all in all, I thought it was pretty good.

01:39:49   But what did the two of you think?

01:39:50   Let's start with you, John.

01:39:51   - You said it was like a lot of ketchup.

01:39:53   I would just change the emphasis.

01:39:54   It was a lot of ketchup.

01:39:56   Like, last show, Marco was listening to all the things

01:39:59   that he wanted, I was like, they can't do all those things.

01:40:01   And the emphasis may have been different

01:40:02   in the products they did, but they did

01:40:05   almost all of those things.

01:40:06   - Which should be committed. - They revised all the hardware

01:40:08   that we thought they could possibly revise.

01:40:10   This is what I thought was great about it,

01:40:12   and I think it was a really smart move,

01:40:13   was the stuff that wasn't ready, they announced that anyway.

01:40:16   'Cause it's like, it's fine, it's such a rush to say,

01:40:20   okay, I can order that today, but that's gonna be December,

01:40:22   but that's gonna be later in the fall.

01:40:23   It's like, you don't care,

01:40:24   just show me all the cool new things.

01:40:26   I think that was super smart, and I came away thinking

01:40:28   this was a very impressive keynote,

01:40:31   where everything they showed

01:40:33   was like met expectations at the very least.

01:40:36   And I was excited to see the iMac Pro and stuff like this.

01:40:40   I don't care when it's shipping, just show it to me.

01:40:43   Like, thumbs up.

01:40:45   - What do you think, Marco?

01:40:47   - So I think, you know, Tim Cook opened it

01:40:49   by saying this is going to be the biggest

01:40:52   and best WWDC ever.

01:40:55   And I don't think it was.

01:40:56   I think that was setting it a little bit too high.

01:40:58   I think the one a couple years ago

01:40:59   when Swift was announced was probably

01:41:01   the biggest and best WWDC ever to date.

01:41:04   But I do think overall,

01:41:06   this was pretty packed full of good stuff.

01:41:09   And a lot of this stuff, you know,

01:41:10   we're not gonna develop an understanding

01:41:12   and appreciation of a lot of it until we get to use it

01:41:14   for a while or until it launches to the public.

01:41:16   So we all have to actually use the new multitasking

01:41:19   and productivity and files type things.

01:41:21   We have to write apps against this stuff.

01:41:22   We have to wait for the apps that we use to get updated

01:41:25   to actually enjoy and use and get to see a lot of this stuff

01:41:28   Now we have to wait for the App Store launch

01:41:30   until presumably the fall before we get any benefit

01:41:32   from that.

01:41:33   So there's a lot of, and we have to wait until

01:41:36   quote December, but in Apple products that probably means

01:41:39   March before we can actually get one.

01:41:41   So we have to wait until next spring, presumably,

01:41:45   before we can actually see the HomePod.

01:41:48   God, I almost said Siri speaker.

01:41:51   - It's fine. - You'll be fine.

01:41:52   Two weeks, you'll be fine.

01:41:53   - Exactly.

01:41:53   - So we have to wait to see that,

01:41:55   we have to wait to see the iMac Pro,

01:41:57   and then later on the Mac Pro.

01:41:58   So there's a lot of like, just wait,

01:42:00   this is gonna be awesome.

01:42:02   But they've backed it up with enough actual output

01:42:05   and solid announcements and firm commitments to things

01:42:09   and actual changes to stuff that overall,

01:42:12   I think this is pretty cool.

01:42:13   There are certainly areas that I'm concerned about

01:42:15   like the TV and the watch and messages and stuff like that.

01:42:18   There's areas that are not as,

01:42:20   have been kind of had slow years

01:42:22   and they didn't do everything I wanted them to do

01:42:24   in certain things like SiriKit.

01:42:26   But overall, I think it's pretty good.

01:42:28   And I enjoyed the presentation itself, as I said earlier,

01:42:32   like the video stuff and the not having Apple Music

01:42:35   presentation.

01:42:36   Overall, I think, pretty good to WDC.

01:42:40   Certainly in the top half, maybe the top quarter,

01:42:44   if not number one ever.

01:42:46   - Yeah, I thought it was really well done.

01:42:47   So at this point, I don't know what we're going to do

01:42:50   because we didn't discuss this in advance,

01:42:51   because it's the Accidental Tech Podcast.

01:42:52   - Marco has to do his thing.

01:42:54   - Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week,

01:42:57   Squarespace, Audible, and Fracture,

01:42:59   and we will see you next week.

01:43:01   (upbeat music)

01:43:02   Ha ha, gotcha.

01:43:04   ♪ Now the show is over ♪

01:43:06   They didn't even mean to begin, 'cause it was accidental.

01:43:10   (It was accidental)

01:43:11   Oh, it was accidental.

01:43:12   (Oh, it was accidental)

01:43:13   John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him, 'cause it was accidental.

01:43:20   (It was accidental)

01:43:21   Oh, it was accidental.

01:43:22   (Accidental)

01:43:23   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm.

01:43:29   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:43:34   @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:43:38   So that's K-C-U-S-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:43:42   E-M-T-M-A-R-M-N

01:43:45   S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A

01:43:49   It's accidental

01:43:53   They didn't mean too accidental

01:43:58   Take what can so long

01:44:03   Well done, well done.

01:44:05   [applause]

01:44:07   So, I don't, I think we're, I think we're probably not, we'll probably skip an after show and god knows what we're gonna do about the titles.

01:44:15   That was exactly as awkward and awesome as I had thought it was.

01:44:18   If you had told me back in like 2012 when I'm listening to these two and you had told

01:44:25   me that not only would I be up on stage with these two, but all of you amazing, wonderful

01:44:30   people would come to see us and sing us our song.

01:44:34   Like what a weird world we live in.

01:44:37   And I know I speak for the two of these guys that we are so deeply, deeply grateful for

01:44:41   you guys coming out and it really means a ton to all of us.

01:44:44   And I hope you enjoy the rest of your week if you're at any of the wonderful conferences,

01:44:48   including but not limited to AltConf.

01:44:49   So thank you so much to AltConf for having us come in.

01:44:52   Can we give them a big round of applause as well?

01:44:54   (audience applauding)

01:44:57   As usual, with the exception of Marco,

01:45:03   John and I just kind of showed up, did our thing,

01:45:04   and then we're gonna go soon.

01:45:05   But no, really, you guys, thank you so much for coming.

01:45:08   - Also, big, nice announcement,

01:45:10   AltConf raised a whole bunch of money

01:45:12   for AppCamp for Girls over the last couple days.

01:45:14   (audience applauding)

01:45:17   Also there is a benefit concert by James Dempsey and the Breakpoints.

01:45:22   I've seen them, they've done a great show.

01:45:24   Highly recommended. There's still tickets left and the proceeds to that go to AppCamp for Girls.

01:45:29   Add to the tickets for this event, but they're going to raise way more because they're awesome.

01:45:33   So please go buy a ticket to that if you haven't already.

01:45:36   It's tomorrow night, right? Or Wednesday? Wednesday.

01:45:39   Wednesday, I highly suggest seeing them in person and you cannot pick a better organization to support than AppCamp for Girls.

01:45:45   So please go buy those last tickets. I want to see that show sold out

01:45:49   So thank you everyone for listening anything else before we go. I think we're good. I got a big titles all right

01:45:55   So in a deeply embarrassing turn of events I looked earlier about halfway through the show

01:46:01   And I think the show about was down

01:46:03   I was wondering if you were even running the show but I well I usually never touch it in everything just magically works

01:46:08   Just like Apple stuff. I'm ready to fill our promise like when we remember we record live we were way worse than this

01:46:13   Yeah, we've talked all sorts of crazy things and it's lots of diversions and Marco puts it back together. This is pretty coherent

01:46:18   Yeah, we did. All right, but I apologize for not giving you the full experience but

01:46:21   Like I'm pretty hungry and so I don't want to have to edit a lot tonight

01:46:27   So so here's the thing

01:46:29   We didn't have a show bot but I have five title options that I will read to you group and then when I am done

01:46:37   You can perhaps we will go through again and you can cheer for the one you like democracy

01:46:41   Yeah, right. That would be known, I tried.

01:46:44   Off into the cornfield was option one.

01:46:47   That's pretty good.

01:46:48   I can't even read my own damn handwriting.

01:46:49   I was gonna say, you can read that?

01:46:51   What the hell does on the somethingness of controls, on the good grips of control?

01:46:55   OXO good grips. There we go, I put it together. OXO good grips of control.

01:46:59   That's a trademark, we can't use that.

01:47:00   That's second one, okay, fine.

01:47:01   Third one, a conversation with Siri. Number four, practically a point release and number five, compromise size.

01:47:07   I think off into the cornfield is the weird one.

01:47:08   Gotta be cornfields, right?

01:47:09   No, I've flubbed that. That's a reference to a Twilight Zone episode that I don't know enough about to get the right quote.

01:47:14   I don't want a flubbed quote.

01:47:15   [laughter]

01:47:16   This is what we see if you don't listen live. This is what happens every friggin' time.

01:47:21   What was the other one?

01:47:22   Okay, Oxo Goodrips of Control, Conversation with Ciri.

01:47:25   Conversation with Ciri is the winner. That's not bad.

01:47:28   Alright, fine. Can we agree on that?

01:47:30   [applause]

01:47:31   Alright, do the alt-com people, do you guys want to say anything else before we kind of shut this all down and go do our thing?

01:47:38   No.

01:47:39   Cool.

01:47:40   (audience laughs)

01:47:40   Thanks everybody for listening.

01:47:42   - Thank you so much.

01:47:42   We'll try to hang around for just a minute.

01:47:44   Thank you guys.

01:47:45   (audience applauds)

01:47:48   [ Applause ]