ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Maybe you can switch to maybe maybe you have sufficient girth to do a one-legged thing where like instead of putting a laptop on

00:00:06 ◼   ► Both legs can it can it sit can it sit on one leg you can have one laptop on each leg you would do a wielding?

00:00:11 ◼   ► Cool I think we're all set so I have notes on everything that happened, but I didn't check the notes in the document

00:00:20 ◼   ► Your own personal notes well guess what I have

00:00:24 ◼   ► Notes shared notes follow-up you of course you do we can breathe we can breeze through it. These are all quick

00:00:31 ◼   ► Marco into a

00:00:35 ◼   ► Deep 20-minute feelings on each one of these items we can get through it Oh shots fired

00:00:40 ◼   ► It's gonna be like that. I would like you to listen to recent episodes and see what percentage of follow-up items

00:00:47 ◼   ► I emit a single word about yeah, but it just takes one it only takes one that gets you going and that becomes

00:00:54 ◼   ► films, half the show. Anyway, we can get through these quickly because Marco's not interested.

00:00:59 ◼   ► Oh my god, every time you say that, all that means is everyone is looking at the chapter

00:01:03 ◼   ► mark to see where the first topic begins. Don't look at the chapter markers, just listen

00:01:07 ◼   ► to the show. Just be, just experience the show. Be in the moment. You have to be the

00:01:11 ◼   ► show. Be in the moment. Alright, so Steven Impson writes, "In case nobody mentioned,

00:01:15 ◼   ► turns out, turns out, the Wii U gamepad had less display lag than most TVs." And we'll

00:01:20 ◼   ► put a couple links in the show notes. John, you're the only one of us with the Wii U,

00:01:23 ◼   ► I believe so you want to tell us about this? I think John's the only one with a Wii U

00:01:26 ◼   ► Very well, maybe yeah

00:01:29 ◼   ► That was last week

00:01:30 ◼   ► Where I was saying that I like to use the gamepad for Mario Kart because it felt like there was actually less lag than a TV

00:01:36 ◼   ► Which seems crazy because it is wirelessly sending video to the thing so I actually I had read this article back when I came out

00:01:41 ◼   ► I just forgot about it because I'm old

00:01:43 ◼   ► Apparently it's measured to be about 33 milliseconds of lag for the video on the Wii U gamepad

00:01:50 ◼   ► Which sounds like a lot until you realize that TVs especially TVs that are either not in game mode or

00:01:56 ◼   ► Can't get into a decent game mode that where they turn off all the image processing the input lag for TVs

00:02:01 ◼   ► Especially if you went through a receiver and then through a TV can be up to like a hundred milliseconds

00:02:06 ◼   ► So I wasn't imagining it. It is very likely that my complete TV setup as

00:02:12 ◼   ► Configured at the time I was doing this is actually slower than using the Wii U gamepad itself. So good job Nintendo

00:02:17 ◼   ► I'm minimizing that lag, bad job, whole rest of the AV industry on having horrendous lag,

00:02:23 ◼   ► input lag for television setups.

00:02:25 ◼   ► What's the mechanism that the video is being broadcast to the gamepad?

00:02:28 ◼   ► Is that like a private Wi-Fi or something?

00:02:30 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's like an H.264 stream over a wireless thing.

00:02:35 ◼   ► I think it's proprietary.

00:02:36 ◼   ► I don't think it is just like literal Wi-Fi, but I don't know actually.

00:02:40 ◼   ► So it could be like a, is an airdrop like a peer-to-peer thing that's kind of stood

00:02:44 ◼   ► up just in the moment and then destroy it after you transfer the file or files or something

00:02:48 ◼   ► like that.

00:02:49 ◼   ► Maybe it's one of those sort of scenarios.

00:02:51 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:02:52 ◼   ► Fair enough.

00:02:53 ◼   ► All right, in the interest of speedy follow-up for the first time ever, tell us what happened

00:02:56 ◼   ► with your Zelda HUD.

00:02:58 ◼   ► I'm playing Zelda, as everybody knows, and Zelda does have a HUD.

00:03:03 ◼   ► So it's every past Zelda game.

00:03:04 ◼   ► They always have something on the screen that's showing a little mini-map or like Skyward

00:03:09 ◼   ► Sword had this giant honking picture of the Wiimote, which you could turn off.

00:03:12 ◼   ► And I did turn off, um, another little status indicator.

00:03:15 ◼   ► Uh, Breath of the Wild has the traditional line of hearts in the upper left-hand corner.

00:03:20 ◼   ► In the lower right, it's got a little circular map thing and some other little icons.

00:03:23 ◼   ► Underneath the hearts, it has a couple of other items that appear as you progress through

00:03:28 ◼   ► the game.

00:03:29 ◼   ► Don't want to spoil anything for people.

00:03:30 ◼   ► The problem with those items is that they are white much of the time.

00:03:34 ◼   ► 100% completely opaque white, and my TV hates that.

00:03:38 ◼   ► And so, after playing Breath of the Wild for, I don't know, 20 or 30 hours, I notice I'm

00:03:42 ◼   ► I'm getting inventory retention in the upper left corner for the white items.

00:03:45 ◼   ► Luckily, Breath of the Wild has a HUD option, which I saw when I first started playing the

00:03:49 ◼   ► game, because of course, being a nerd, I always go into all the options first before starting

00:03:53 ◼   ► anything.

00:03:54 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:03:55 ◼   ► And they call it the Pro HUD, which turns off basically everything except for your hearts.

00:04:00 ◼   ► And I said, "Well, I don't want to turn everything off.

00:04:02 ◼   ► It's a pretty minimal HUD to begin with.

00:04:04 ◼   ► It's very minimal, very pushed off to the side, so it's nice."

00:04:06 ◼   ► And I like seeing the things.

00:04:07 ◼   ► Some of them are useful, like you're just seeing the compass direction and stuff like

00:04:10 ◼   ► that.

00:04:11 ◼   ► That turned out to have been mistakes now. I'm using the pro HUD which only shows hearts

00:04:15 ◼   ► The hearts are 100% Brit red and opaque so they are causing some heart-shaped image retention in the upper left

00:04:20 ◼   ► But they do vary a little bit as you take damage at the very least and 100% red is much better than 100% white

00:04:27 ◼   ► So I'm not kicking Zelda off my TV yet and moving it to the to the the gaming

00:04:31 ◼   ► Monitor or anything I think I'm just going to accept the amount of image retention because I know from our destiny experiment that yes

00:04:39 ◼   ► You will get image retention, but it is not permanent if you merely wait a year

00:04:42 ◼   ► It will go away and someone is suggesting that I get OLED OLED also has image retention guess what?

00:04:47 ◼   ► You know if you had brought a TV with a proper technology that doesn't have image retention

00:04:54 ◼   ► This would have been a lot easier

00:04:55 ◼   ► But no you had to have you had to have the blackest blacks and the darkest

00:04:59 ◼   ► I'm saying even LCDs have image retention mine has it mine has it worse

00:05:04 ◼   ► Yeah, and vibrant colors like seriously on my gaming monitor

00:05:08 ◼   ► It is such an incredible difference in what the game looks like compared to what it looks like on TV and breath of the wild

00:05:12 ◼   ► It's the type of game they want to experience and there's not a lot of HUD in breath of the wild

00:05:16 ◼   ► It is actually pretty darn minimal

00:05:18 ◼   ► So I want to see the full rich experience and to get the 5.1 surround sound which is they don't take that much advantage

00:05:23 ◼   ► Of the speakers are better. Anyway, I'm not kicking it off yet. We'll check back in next week fair enough

00:05:28 ◼   ► Karsten Weiss, maybe Vice, writes in to talk about high-end desktop processors, which I

00:05:35 ◼   ► really don't care that much about, so one of you can take this.

00:05:37 ◼   ► This is in reference to me asking, last show, if Intel makes any processors that are not

00:05:43 ◼   ► Xeons that have more than four cores that in theory could be used in an iMac, and Marco

00:05:47 ◼   ► said no, and a lot of people tweeted that actually they make these a bunch of processors

00:05:52 ◼   ► with indecipherable numeric, alphanumeric names that have 10 cores and 8 cores and 6

00:05:57 ◼   ► and other people chimed in on Twitter to say actually those are basically just Xeons rebranded

00:06:01 ◼   ► and renamed but without ECC RAM and different chipsets that require them.

00:06:06 ◼   ► Either way it seems like however you want to slice it.

00:06:09 ◼   ► There are other options that are not the same as the processors in the Mac Pro that Apple

00:06:13 ◼   ► could put in the iMac if it wanted to so maybe if they make an iMac Pro instead of having

00:06:18 ◼   ► a Xeon in there they could have one of these in between EZion things which would be kind

00:06:24 ◼   ► of cruddy because I really want ECC RAM, so if I'm gonna pay for an iMac Pro. But anyway,

00:06:29 ◼   ► I'll buy whatever they put out because what the hell choice do I have?

00:06:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, sorry, I'm gonna talk to Sean during follow-up. Yeah, this is the X99 series that

00:06:38 ◼   ► people keep telling us about, and I honestly don't know much about it. I had it in the

00:06:41 ◼   ► back of my mind and just had forgotten about it, but it seems like if you're gonna go to

00:06:47 ◼   ► the trouble of having a very expensive processor that puts out a lot of heat and needs a big

00:06:52 ◼   ► socket and everything else, why not just use Xeons at that point? I bet the engineering

00:06:58 ◼   ► constraints and cost constraints and everything else around using these is probably not that

00:07:04 ◼   ► different from just using Xeons in the first place, which is probably why Apple doesn't

00:07:07 ◼   ► just put one of these in an iMac.

00:07:10 ◼   ► - Jason Breckenridge writes in to say more about the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro Delay is likely

00:07:16 ◼   ► due to wait for AMD to produce something that they can leverage to get Intel Xeon prices

00:07:20 ◼   ► down. That seems bold to me. But anyway, he continues, "Margins are everything in Tim Cook's

00:07:26 ◼   ► Apple." Not sure how you can know that, but I'll continue, especially for low volume products.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Maybe, I don't know, what do you guys think? I put this in here for, not to address it directly,

00:07:36 ◼   ► but just for the larger issue, because it's interesting to me that the three of us on this

00:07:43 ◼   ► show seem to all come to a sort of, I don't know, I'm going to say unspoken agreement,

00:07:49 ◼   ► but chances are we spoke about it because we talk about the Mac Pro a lot, agreement that there is

00:07:53 ◼   ► no new Mac Pro coming. And yet, when I see people, like when listeners write in or tweet or whatever,

00:08:00 ◼   ► there is still a contention out there that is on a different page than we are, that they believe

00:08:05 ◼   ► that there is a delay, like the Mac, that there is a Mac Pro delay, that a new Mac Pro is coming.

00:08:11 ◼   ► And maybe I'm wrong, but do we all basically agree, the three of us, like obviously we don't

00:08:15 ◼   ► know we're just guessing right but do we all kind of agree there is no new mac pro coming in in the

00:08:22 ◼   ► terms that we understand it to be basically like a thing that you buy from apple that is their

00:08:26 ◼   ► fastest computer that doesn't have a screen attached to it i don't know you're the you're

00:08:33 ◼   ► the one you're the one holed out i mean i think marco agrees right yeah pretty much i'm i've been

00:08:39 ◼   ► on the page for a while they're just like there is no new mac pro coming and all i'm thinking of is

00:08:43 ◼   ► like you know in the way that we understand it i'm i'm 100 pinning my hopes on an iMac pro at this

00:08:49 ◼   ► point but the Mac Pro like so many people write in to talk about what do we think the next Mac Pro is

00:08:53 ◼   ► going to be and what might be delaying the next Mac Pro and i feel like writing back saying

00:08:56 ◼   ► i i've lost my faith like i what what new Mac Pro what are you even talking about it's there is no

00:09:03 ◼   ► new Mac Pro there will never will be a new Mac Pro except for something different than in terms of

00:09:09 ◼   ► Again, when I say it, I'm talking about a box that you buy

00:09:13 ◼   ► that doesn't have a monitor built into it from Apple

00:09:14 ◼   ► that is their fastest computer.

00:09:16 ◼   ► I think that's gone.

00:09:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, like, all right,

00:09:19 ◼   ► like I've been using this iMac since 2014

00:09:22 ◼   ► because it just fit my overall desires better.

00:09:26 ◼   ► Like I really wanted Retina.

00:09:28 ◼   ► Like I desperately wanted desktop Retina

00:09:30 ◼   ► and I thought for years that it was further away.

00:09:34 ◼   ► And so, and then when they released the 5K iMac,

00:09:37 ◼   ► it blew my mind and it was so good,

00:09:40 ◼   ► and it still is so good.

00:09:42 ◼   ► You know, I decided then, like okay,

00:09:44 ◼   ► I will trade some processing power

00:09:46 ◼   ► and I will trade the freedom of this external cylinder

00:09:49 ◼   ► or tower and having it separate from my monitor.

00:09:51 ◼   ► I'll trade that for this awesome screen experience.

00:09:53 ◼   ► And at the time, there really was no great way

00:09:56 ◼   ► to get 5K externally.

00:09:58 ◼   ► Now, well, maybe you can argue that the LG

00:10:02 ◼   ► still sucks so badly that maybe there still isn't

00:10:06 ◼   ► when you get 5K externally.

00:10:08 ◼   ► - That is what broke me, if you recall.

00:10:10 ◼   ► That was the end.

00:10:11 ◼   ► I was like, I now accept, I accept that Apple.

00:10:14 ◼   ► You're telling me in no uncertain terms, give up.

00:10:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe, I don't know.

00:10:19 ◼   ► Anyway, so the problem is like,

00:10:22 ◼   ► I hear from various tipsters and rumors

00:10:26 ◼   ► and birdies and everything else,

00:10:28 ◼   ► I hear a different thing like every month.

00:10:29 ◼   ► Every month I hear, oh, the Mac Pro's really dead this time.

00:10:32 ◼   ► Or, oh no, it's not dead yet, it's coming,

00:10:34 ◼   ► you know, they're starting up a new thing.

00:10:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, but every time I hear that, like I think,

00:10:38 ◼   ► does what I'm hearing fit into the idea of an iMac Pro?

00:10:41 ◼   ► And every time I go, that totally could be an iMac Pro.

00:10:44 ◼   ► - All I want is for them to address high-end needs,

00:10:48 ◼   ► and for the current iMac series as we know it

00:10:51 ◼   ► to not be the highest they ever go,

00:10:54 ◼   ► because it is very limited in, you know,

00:10:56 ◼   ► limiting itself to the primarily four-core desktop line

00:10:59 ◼   ► and not having desktop-class high-powered GPU support

00:11:04 ◼   ► and desktop class high powered CPU support,

00:11:07 ◼   ► and workstation class I should say CPU support.

00:11:10 ◼   ► You know, there's a huge ceiling

00:11:12 ◼   ► above the current iMac series.

00:11:15 ◼   ► And it isn't just about getting a higher clock speed

00:11:18 ◼   ► on single core, it's about like,

00:11:20 ◼   ► if you want, if you need multi-core performance,

00:11:22 ◼   ► which lots of things use these days,

00:11:24 ◼   ► it isn't a matter of just wait 'til next year's iMac

00:11:29 ◼   ► and the four core line will be good enough

00:11:32 ◼   ► that a Mac Pro won't be necessary.

00:11:33 ◼   ► It's literally like the iMac grows like

00:11:36 ◼   ► five or 10% performance a year,

00:11:39 ◼   ► and a Mac Pro with more cores could have like,

00:11:42 ◼   ► it could have like six times the performance.

00:11:44 ◼   ► Like that's the difference we're talking about here.

00:11:46 ◼   ► It's not, it isn't something that we can just wait

00:11:49 ◼   ► a couple years and the need goes away,

00:11:51 ◼   ► because a couple years down the road,

00:11:53 ◼   ► the multi-core high-power workstation chips

00:11:55 ◼   ► have gotten better too.

00:11:57 ◼   ► So having a gap, like there's a big gap between

00:12:02 ◼   ► what the iMac can do and what a computer

00:12:05 ◼   ► that has a much higher power and heat budget

00:12:09 ◼   ► and money budget can do.

00:12:11 ◼   ► And that used to be the Mac Pro and now it's kind of gone

00:12:15 ◼   ► and that huge gap is just being unserved.

00:12:18 ◼   ► And the people who need that huge gap are going to Windows

00:12:21 ◼   ► and Hackintoshes and other crap.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Like that's what I hope Apple addresses.

00:12:26 ◼   ► Whether it has a screen built into it or not,

00:12:30 ◼   ► I would prefer if it didn't,

00:12:32 ◼   ► just for additional flexibility,

00:12:34 ◼   ► but I don't really,

00:12:35 ◼   ► I'm not gonna be massively disappointed

00:12:37 ◼   ► if they give me a new high-end 16-core Xeon workstation

00:12:42 ◼   ► that happens to have a 5K screen in front of it,

00:12:44 ◼   ► which is, by the way, the best screen I've ever seen.

00:12:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm actually, like,

00:12:47 ◼   ► now that I know there's no third-party monitor,

00:12:49 ◼   ► that's what makes the iMac Pro so much more palatable to me,

00:12:52 ◼   ► 'cause I will still have an Apple monitor,

00:12:54 ◼   ► and that's what I want, and so,

00:12:55 ◼   ► now I'm just pinning my hopes on the insides of that.

00:12:59 ◼   ► Mac Pro being all that they can be.

00:13:02 ◼   ► - All right, you two, you have had your talking privileges

00:13:04 ◼   ► revoked for the remainder of follow-up.

00:13:06 ◼   ► I was trying to get through this quickly,

00:13:08 ◼   ► and then I said those two cursed goddamn words, Mac Pro,

00:13:12 ◼   ► and then everything took a turn, as it always does.

00:13:15 ◼   ► Ugh, anyway.

00:13:18 ◼   ► - I mean, in our defense, I'm pretty sure you started it.

00:13:21 ◼   ► - Well, I didn't put this in the show notes,

00:13:24 ◼   ► but I was dutifully reading-- - Neither did I.

00:13:26 ◼   ► - I was dutifully reading Jon's show notes

00:13:29 ◼   ► here's where we ended up. So anyway, we'll move on to talk about how Americans are cheap. So Jake

00:13:34 ◼   ► writes in to say, "I wanted to tell you all what I've seen with a family member that has been in

00:13:40 ◼   ► education for almost 30 years." And this person's family member works for a 12,000 student school

00:13:46 ◼   ► district in America. In this district, there are several schools that need repairs or renovation

00:13:50 ◼   ► to keep students safe. Over the last two years, the district has presented a referendum which

00:13:55 ◼   ► which goes to a public vote, to the public, which gets voted down, a secondary referendum

00:14:00 ◼   ► for a lesser amount of money, which is also voted down, and now there's a third referendum

00:14:04 ◼   ► on the table. The current referendum has a lot of opposition at this time, and according

00:14:09 ◼   ► to Jake, they don't play nice. So Jake summarizes, "People are really not fond of taxes being

00:14:14 ◼   ► raised to support education." I've seen this every day for the last decade or two of my

00:14:19 ◼   ► my life, even when kids' safety is on the line, there is still opposition. It's really

00:14:25 ◼   ► sad. And this is an exact retelling of my childhood in an—now, how do I say this?

00:14:33 ◼   ► Because however I pronounced it, apparently everyone was very, very upset with me.

00:14:37 ◼   ► You're just putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable. That's all that's happening

00:14:41 ◼   ► there.

00:14:42 ◼   ► Right. What flight attendant movie was that? I never actually saw it, but that preview

00:14:45 ◼   ► that was on the commercials just made me laugh.

00:14:46 ◼   ► It is very popular. I've heard it back in middle school, so I don't know what the original origin is.

00:14:51 ◼   ► Anyway, affluent is what you're trying to say.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Oh, you said affluent?

00:14:55 ◼   ► Yes, apparently. There are a lot of people who are very perturbed.

00:14:58 ◼   ► It's probably an alternate pronunciation because everything is.

00:15:01 ◼   ► I bet you're right.

00:15:02 ◼   ► You always have that defense. You can look it up.

00:15:04 ◼   ► I'm sure that's true, but whatever. So affluent? Is that correct?

00:15:08 ◼   ► Yep.

00:15:09 ◼   ► Anyway, it doesn't matter. Whatever. I lived in an area that had a lot of rich people in it.

00:15:13 ◼   ► There we go.

00:15:14 ◼   ► So the point is, this was the exact same behavior that I saw at my school district, which we

00:15:20 ◼   ► went over last episode.

00:15:21 ◼   ► We had several other people write in to say very, very similar things that were equally

00:15:25 ◼   ► depressing and this was just a really great summary of how Americans are cheap and I hate

00:15:31 ◼   ► all of us.

00:15:32 ◼   ► So I just thought I'd share that little anecdote.

00:15:35 ◼   ► Speaking of things that we won't talk long about at all, I'm quite sure, Twitterific

00:15:39 ◼   ► for Mac. The Kickstarter made it and the stretch goal of $100,000 to get basic things like direct

00:15:46 ◼   ► messaging support also made it, which is super exciting. So congratulations, John Siracusa.

00:15:52 ◼   ► This moment is yours. Yes, this is a victory lap for the project and for all of the listeners to

00:15:56 ◼   ► this show who I'm sure heard my plea and pledged support. And it amazes me like I was just the goal

00:16:03 ◼   ► I set for everybody says ignore the fact that the goal is 75 grand. The stretch goal is 100 grand.

00:16:08 ◼   ► We need to get that because that's where like direct messages come in and as much as I love to where I forget really don't want

00:16:12 ◼   ► To use a Mac Twitter client doesn't support direct messages. So we did it

00:16:15 ◼   ► 108,000 is the total we passed 100k

00:16:18 ◼   ► As Marco was pointing out now

00:16:21 ◼   ► I have to pay the money that I pledge towards it and a lot of people I know

00:16:24 ◼   ► On Twitter told me that not only did they pledge because they heard

00:16:28 ◼   ► My encouragement to do so but they also up to their pledges when they saw that it wasn't close to its goal or whatever

00:16:34 ◼   ► So thank you to everybody who did that. I'm sure this will turn out great

00:16:39 ◼   ► The one the one bad thing for me is that of course I can't or I may not be able to run this

00:16:44 ◼   ► Project if it's Sierra only until and unless I get a new Mac that runs

00:16:48 ◼   ► I mean, it's not supposed to be done until

00:16:51 ◼   ► This really is gonna be the most expensive Twitter client ever for you. Yeah

00:16:56 ◼   ► Anyway, but it's gonna be a few hundred bucks for Twitter and a very sweet button few thousand bucks for a new Mac

00:17:03 ◼   ► I'm also lobbying them through certain channels to perhaps try to support back to El Cap

00:17:07 ◼   ► But I don't know if that will happen

00:17:08 ◼   ► But either way I want a new Mac that runs Sierra and I want to be able to run this thing and it's not done

00:17:12 ◼   ► Yet so fingers crossed everybody, but thanks to everybody who helped. This is awesome

00:17:15 ◼   ► Congratulations John Sira Kusa. I'm very very very excited for you

00:17:20 ◼   ► I know this was this was a big deal for you could just use tweet bot, but that's cool

00:17:24 ◼   ► Siri has multi language support several people wrote in with regard to our ladies in the cylinder conversation last episode

00:17:32 ◼   ► to remind us that, and it is, we needed a reminder, that, that, what is the, the, the

00:17:40 ◼   ► Amazon, I'm stumbling so hard to say her name. Yes, the echoes lady, I didn't want to say

00:17:47 ◼   ► the A-L-E-X-A word. The echoes lady does not have a lot of multi-language support, whereas

00:17:55 ◼   ► the Apple lady does have considerable by comparison multi-language support. And that's a big deal

00:18:01 ◼   ► for anyone who doesn't speak English, and obviously we tend to be more myopic than

00:18:06 ◼   ► we intend when it comes to these sorts of things. But for people outside of the

00:18:10 ◼   ► United States, Britain, etc., Australia too, before we get people emailing us about

00:18:15 ◼   ► that, people outside those areas, you know, the only choice they really have is

00:18:21 ◼   ► Siri, and that's kind of a big bummer. So anyway, it's worth considering, and we

00:18:26 ◼   ► didn't really give any thought to that last episode.

00:18:28 ◼   ► What is, wasn't, uh, somebody wrote in before we get onto the, the, the, well actually for this, um,

00:18:34 ◼   ► someone wrote in there in, in a foreign country and they said that they had to speak to whatever

00:18:40 ◼   ► thing they were speaking to in their native language, but they had to pronounce things the way

00:18:45 ◼   ► an English speaker, English speaker would try to say the words in their language in order to be

00:18:50 ◼   ► understood, which I thought was interesting that like, even though it purports to understand your

00:18:54 ◼   ► language if you speak sort of colloquially and just like casually as

00:18:59 ◼   ► you would it doesn't work as well if you think like how would an American trying

00:19:03 ◼   ► to speak my language say this and say it that way then then the cylinder picks up

00:19:06 ◼   ► which I thought was funny I mean it's work time works the same way here like

00:19:09 ◼   ► you've kind of think like how would somebody in California say this like the

00:19:13 ◼   ► way I say it it never works right you just got to add in a groovy and you know

00:19:17 ◼   ► and whatever the other lingo is right can you get me a Jaguar with an

00:19:20 ◼   ► an automatic transmission.

00:19:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:19:23 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:19:24 ◼   ► - That'll work perfectly.

00:19:25 ◼   ► - Don't forget the passive aggression.

00:19:25 ◼   ► No, I mean, so I think what bugs me about

00:19:29 ◼   ► a lot of the times I see this pointed out

00:19:31 ◼   ► is when it's used as a defense for areas

00:19:35 ◼   ► in which Siri is not doing so well

00:19:37 ◼   ► or is stupider than it should be.

00:19:38 ◼   ► So to me, these should be carefully considered

00:19:42 ◼   ► as separate factors.

00:19:44 ◼   ► Yes, Siri is better at international

00:19:48 ◼   ► and multi-language support.

00:19:49 ◼   ► Amazon sucks internationally.

00:19:51 ◼   ► They have terrible coverage outside the US

00:19:54 ◼   ► for all of their services.

00:19:56 ◼   ► And the Echo's voice service is no exception to that.

00:20:00 ◼   ► But what Amazon's even better at is in the

00:20:03 ◼   ► like one language that they support well,

00:20:07 ◼   ► it simply works more reliably.

00:20:10 ◼   ► And I know that there are areas in which Siri is better

00:20:13 ◼   ► and that's fine.

00:20:15 ◼   ► There's areas in which Amazon's better.

00:20:17 ◼   ► but these are separate discussions.

00:20:19 ◼   ► And I don't think it's a valid excuse for Apple

00:20:23 ◼   ► or for Apple fans and commentators to use.

00:20:27 ◼   ► Whenever anybody points out that Siri does something

00:20:30 ◼   ► less well than it should,

00:20:32 ◼   ► or that Amazon does something really well,

00:20:34 ◼   ► it is not a valid excuse to say,

00:20:35 ◼   ► "Well, Siri supports 75 different languages."

00:20:39 ◼   ► It's like, well, okay, it does.

00:20:41 ◼   ► The sky is also blue.

00:20:42 ◼   ► These are separate facts.

00:20:43 ◼   ► These are separate discussions, right?

00:20:46 ◼   ► So that's, I see this a lot in a way that bothers me,

00:20:48 ◼   ► but that is an attribute that should be commended.

00:20:52 ◼   ► It is great that Siri supports all the different languages,

00:20:56 ◼   ► and if you speak one of those languages,

00:20:57 ◼   ► that's a huge factor for you,

00:20:59 ◼   ► in the same way that other factors of these products

00:21:01 ◼   ► might influence other people's decisions.

00:21:03 ◼   ► I would just be careful how we throw that around,

00:21:06 ◼   ► because so often it's used in this kind of invalid defense.

00:21:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, fair enough.

00:21:11 ◼   ► All right, so I have a very quick question

00:21:15 ◼   ► about the Apple Watch, which is kind of a call to listeners

00:21:18 ◼   ► to tweet at me and me alone.

00:21:21 ◼   ► And then I'd like to go to Marco Waffling.

00:21:24 ◼   ► I am gonna regret this, but I'm curious.

00:21:26 ◼   ► And then Marco has a tale of waffling,

00:21:28 ◼   ► which is a lot less delicious than it sounds.

00:21:30 ◼   ► - You have a brief tale of waffling, right Marco?

00:21:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, very brief.

00:21:33 ◼   ► - Well, I do, I wasn't aware you guys knew about it.

00:21:36 ◼   ► - Somebody put in the show notes.

00:21:37 ◼   ► - We know everything, we're watching, always watching.

00:21:39 ◼   ► Cool, all right.

00:21:41 ◼   ► Anyway, I wanted to ask the audience,

00:21:46 ◼   ► and you can tweet at me and me alone,

00:21:47 ◼   ► you don't need to bother Marco and John.

00:21:49 ◼   ► Do you, if you have--

00:21:50 ◼   ► - I can't believe you're doing this, by the way.

00:21:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know.

00:21:53 ◼   ► If you have a, what are we calling this,

00:21:56 ◼   ► a Series Zero, an original Apple Watch,

00:21:59 ◼   ► do you find that the battery is starting

00:22:01 ◼   ► to get a little long in the tooth

00:22:02 ◼   ► and it's starting to wear out a little more quickly

00:22:04 ◼   ► than it used to?

00:22:06 ◼   ► Because I took delivery of my Apple Watch in early May,

00:22:10 ◼   ► And the last couple days it has been nice enough out that I can go for my afternoon,

00:22:14 ◼   ► or really evening, walk with Declan.

00:22:16 ◼   ► And I'll do a walking exercise on my Apple Watch.

00:22:19 ◼   ► And as soon as I've started doing that in the last few days, at unreasonably early hours,

00:22:25 ◼   ► my Apple Watch is going from, "Oh, I'm fine, everything, I'm asleep."

00:22:30 ◼   ► And power reserve mode is on, and I basically don't have a watch at all anymore.

00:22:35 ◼   ► And this only started when I started doing these exercises in the, well, for loose definitions

00:22:39 ◼   ► of exercise, but anyway, exercises in the evening and tracking these like 15 to 30 minute

00:22:44 ◼   ► walks.

00:22:45 ◼   ► And I'm curious, those who listen, if you have, only if you have a Series 0 original

00:22:51 ◼   ► Apple Watch, do you also find that you're having battery woes?

00:22:54 ◼   ► Let @CaseyList know, I'm curious to hear.

00:22:57 ◼   ► That's all for now.

00:22:58 ◼   ► You should restore your phone.

00:22:59 ◼   ► I have a Series 0 watch and my battery is awesome as it sits there on its charging thing

00:23:03 ◼   ► on top of my dresser.

00:23:06 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by Fracture,

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00:25:15 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to Fracture for sponsoring our show.

00:25:17 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:25:20 ◼   ► - So tell me about your waffling.

00:25:22 ◼   ► - I'm gonna say this is by my count

00:25:26 ◼   ► your third Mac laptop order

00:25:28 ◼   ► since the new Mac laptops are released.

00:25:30 ◼   ► - Again?

00:25:31 ◼   ► - Oh my God, Marco.

00:25:33 ◼   ► - Here's what happened.

00:25:35 ◼   ► - Oh, here we go.

00:25:35 ◼   ► Yeah, you had to do it.

00:25:37 ◼   ► Why did you have to do it?

00:25:38 ◼   ► - Here's what happened.

00:25:39 ◼   ► All right, I'll try to be brief

00:25:40 ◼   ► 'cause we have all this other stuff to talk about.

00:25:43 ◼   ► I recently came back from a trip.

00:25:44 ◼   ► On the way home, I was supposed to have downloaded

00:25:49 ◼   ► a TV show for Tiff and I to watch on the plane.

00:25:53 ◼   ► And last minute at the airport,

00:25:55 ◼   ► I realized, at the departure airport,

00:25:58 ◼   ► I realized I had not done it over the hotel wifi overnight

00:26:01 ◼   ► like I had planned, and I had to very quickly download

00:26:03 ◼   ► episodes of a TV show.

00:26:05 ◼   ► And of course, nothing was available in any legal fashion,

00:26:08 ◼   ► so I was going to ship them to myself on a truck.

00:26:13 ◼   ► And there are numerous ways to do this on airport WiFi,

00:26:18 ◼   ► none of which are very good.

00:26:20 ◼   ► And the only way I found for this show

00:26:23 ◼   ► that I was supposed to have downloaded, but didn't download,

00:26:26 ◼   ► the only way that I could find it is a certain kind

00:26:30 ◼   ► truck that, let's say it forms a torrential downpour of data pieces into a TV show. I

00:26:40 ◼   ► knew like, you know, if I could just use a group of newspaper delivery trucks, that would

00:26:46 ◼   ► be better. But the torrential downpour of trucks was the only thing I could get to work

00:26:51 ◼   ► in a reliable fashion from the airport wifi that I was on. And the plane was taking off

00:26:57 ◼   ► in like a half hour, and I just had to get something quickly.

00:27:01 ◼   ► So I installed a type of torrential downpour truck

00:27:06 ◼   ► that I had trusted in the past, even though I knew that,

00:27:09 ◼   ► you know, I heard they kinda got shady

00:27:12 ◼   ► with bundling smaller satellite trucks with it.

00:27:15 ◼   ► - Did it install a Yahoo search toolbar in your browser?

00:27:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:27:18 ◼   ► Did it install Java?

00:27:19 ◼   ► - It did set my homepage to Yahoo in all of my browsers.

00:27:23 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:27:24 ◼   ► - Oh my God. - Yes, that's the stuff.

00:27:25 ◼   ► And on my home Mac, I have an older version of this truck

00:27:29 ◼   ► that has no, I downloaded it years ago,

00:27:31 ◼   ► it has no problems.

00:27:33 ◼   ► But on the new version that I could get off the website

00:27:36 ◼   ► quickly, it did a bunch of weird stuff that I don't trust.

00:27:40 ◼   ► And so because of this, I now consider my 15 inch

00:27:44 ◼   ► Touch Bar MacBook Pro compromised,

00:27:47 ◼   ► and I need to format it and reinstall, basically,

00:27:51 ◼   ► for my own sanity.

00:27:53 ◼   ► Do you guys remember what made Mike Hurley quit his job?

00:27:57 ◼   ► - Oh God, it was him having to buy a new pair of shoelaces.

00:28:01 ◼   ► And how does that justify you getting a new damn computer?

00:28:05 ◼   ► - I was just gonna say to remind everybody

00:28:06 ◼   ► the story about him forgetting to download a TV show

00:28:09 ◼   ► and trying to do it in the airport.

00:28:10 ◼   ► It's going to lead to him buying a new computer,

00:28:12 ◼   ► just so everyone's on the same page here.

00:28:14 ◼   ► - All right, so basically, the gist of it,

00:28:17 ◼   ► if I can summarize Mike Hurley's story

00:28:18 ◼   ► about what made him finally quit his job

00:28:20 ◼   ► and become a professional podcasters,

00:28:22 ◼   ► is that he was going to his office job

00:28:25 ◼   ► where he had to dress up,

00:28:26 ◼   ► and he broke the shoelace on his shoe,

00:28:29 ◼   ► and he was thinking about quitting for a while,

00:28:31 ◼   ► and that finally pushed him over the edge

00:28:32 ◼   ► because he's like, you know,

00:28:33 ◼   ► I don't want to buy a new pair of shoelaces for these shoes

00:28:38 ◼   ► because it was kind of like reinforcing and reinvesting

00:28:42 ◼   ► in the world he was not happy with and trying to leave.

00:28:46 ◼   ► So he decided to just stop at that point.

00:28:49 ◼   ► I'm sorry if I butchered that.

00:28:50 ◼   ► And Casey, do you remember offhand what episode of Analog

00:28:52 ◼   ► people should listen to?

00:28:53 ◼   ► - No, I don't, but I'll have it in the show notes.

00:28:56 ◼   ► I don't remember which episode it is,

00:28:57 ◼   ► but we go into detail about this.

00:28:59 ◼   ► And it is one of the better episodes of Analog,

00:29:01 ◼   ► if I do say so myself, so it's worth listening to.

00:29:03 ◼   ► - Okay, so, when faced with the need to reformat

00:29:08 ◼   ► my 15-inch Touch Bar MacBook Pro at the end of this trip,

00:29:12 ◼   ► probably the third or fourth trip I've taken it on,

00:29:15 ◼   ► I was already not loving this computer on this trip.

00:29:20 ◼   ► In so many things about it that I, when I bought it,

00:29:24 ◼   ► I was like, you know, I don't love this,

00:29:26 ◼   ► but I'll get used to it maybe.

00:29:27 ◼   ► And some of those things I've gotten used to

00:29:29 ◼   ► decently enough, some of those things I haven't.

00:29:32 ◼   ► I just have no motivation to fix this computer,

00:29:36 ◼   ► even though it's just software,

00:29:37 ◼   ► I just have to reinstall the OS,

00:29:38 ◼   ► which I have to do, even if I get a new one,

00:29:40 ◼   ► I will then start on a fresh one,

00:29:41 ◼   ► and then I'll have to put everything back on that one.

00:29:44 ◼   ► I don't want to, this is my shoelace,

00:29:47 ◼   ► and I don't want to fix this laptop

00:29:50 ◼   ► because I just don't like it.

00:29:51 ◼   ► And I'm finally admitting to myself,

00:29:53 ◼   ► you know what, the 15-inch Touch Bar MacBook Pro,

00:29:56 ◼   ► it's not a bad computer, it's just really designed

00:29:59 ◼   ► with different priorities and different needs

00:30:01 ◼   ► than what my needs and priorities actually are.

00:30:04 ◼   ► And I thought I would get past it,

00:30:05 ◼   ► and I thought I'd get used to it,

00:30:06 ◼   ► and I thought certain things would stick better

00:30:08 ◼   ► than they have, like honestly,

00:30:10 ◼   ► the Touch Bar doesn't work for me.

00:30:12 ◼   ► It may be down the road, it will, but right now it doesn't.

00:30:15 ◼   ► And it causes a lot of problems,

00:30:17 ◼   ► I was like accidentally brushing against it

00:30:18 ◼   ► and other issues, bugs, things like that.

00:30:21 ◼   ► So anyway, so I thought, you know what?

00:30:23 ◼   ► I can't do this anymore.

00:30:24 ◼   ► I'm going to switch to a computer that I actually like.

00:30:28 ◼   ► And my original plan was I'm going to wait

00:30:32 ◼   ► for the next update to the MacBook One

00:30:35 ◼   ► and give that a solid try again

00:30:36 ◼   ► because when I first got the first one

00:30:39 ◼   ► and really hated it, part of the reason I hated it

00:30:41 ◼   ► was the keyboard, but well now they all have that keyboard.

00:30:44 ◼   ► And so I was like, well, I'm forcibly getting used

00:30:47 ◼   ► to that keyboard.

00:30:48 ◼   ► So it's like, all right, well that is kind of now

00:30:51 ◼   ► an equal between them, almost.

00:30:52 ◼   ► I mean, the one on the MacBook One currently

00:30:55 ◼   ► has less feedback.

00:30:56 ◼   ► It is still the same low travel, but it has less feedback

00:30:59 ◼   ► than the ones that are on the new 2016 MacBook Pros.

00:31:03 ◼   ► I'm used to that one now on the MacBook Pros.

00:31:05 ◼   ► I still don't like it, but I'm used to it.

00:31:07 ◼   ► So I can tolerate that, and I was assuming

00:31:09 ◼   ► that the next update to the MacBook One

00:31:11 ◼   ► would get that keyboard.

00:31:13 ◼   ► Also, the original MacBook One,

00:31:14 ◼   ► I mean, all the MacBook Ones are very slow,

00:31:17 ◼   ► but in the 2016 update, was it,

00:31:19 ◼   ► they dramatically increased the speed of the SSD,

00:31:24 ◼   ► which dramatically increases the performance

00:31:27 ◼   ► of lots of things in the system.

00:31:28 ◼   ► And so the gist of what owners have reported, basically,

00:31:31 ◼   ► is that the second version of the MacBook One,

00:31:34 ◼   ► which is the one that's been on for about a year now,

00:31:36 ◼   ► is significantly faster than the first version was.

00:31:39 ◼   ► Oh, also, thanks, Tipster, the GPU is also a lot faster.

00:31:43 ◼   ► which also helps.

00:31:44 ◼   ► So, I thought, you know, let me just wait for that,

00:31:47 ◼   ► and then I'll make a decision.

00:31:49 ◼   ► Well, I'm about to go on a trip in like a couple of weeks

00:31:53 ◼   ► to Ireland to the OOL conference,

00:31:55 ◼   ► and like our other friends, I will pimp the OOL conference,

00:31:58 ◼   ► not because they've asked me to,

00:31:59 ◼   ► not because I feel obligated to,

00:32:01 ◼   ► but because if you are anywhere near Ireland

00:32:03 ◼   ► or can get to Ireland in a couple of weeks,

00:32:05 ◼   ► you should go to the OOL conference, it's amazing.

00:32:07 ◼   ► So go to the OOL conference, everybody.

00:32:09 ◼   ► U-L-L dot I-E is OOL.

00:32:11 ◼   ► Anyway, I'm going to Ireland.

00:32:12 ◼   ► This is the perfect kind of trip where I want to have a laptop with me, but I don't really

00:32:17 ◼   ► get a lot of work done on trips anymore.

00:32:19 ◼   ► I try, I always try, and I just, I don't.

00:32:22 ◼   ► You know, it's very rare that I actually get a lot of work done.

00:32:24 ◼   ► Since the 15-inch was not for me, I was thinking, you know what, this would be a great time

00:32:28 ◼   ► to have a new, smaller laptop to try, to use, to enjoy, and since the 15-inch is not working

00:32:35 ◼   ► for me for lots of reasons, and one of the main reasons is the touch bar that really

00:32:38 ◼   ► is not working for me, I think my choices were basically the MacBook One or the MacBook

00:32:42 ◼   ► or an old MacBook Pro, you know,

00:32:45 ◼   ► like I can get the old 13, and I already have my old 15,

00:32:48 ◼   ► so I took out the old 15, figured I'd boot that up

00:32:50 ◼   ► for a little bit, use that for a couple days,

00:32:51 ◼   ► see how that goes.

00:32:53 ◼   ► And it's fine, but I'm ruined now for the weight difference

00:32:57 ◼   ► on the new one.

00:32:59 ◼   ► Even though going from the old to the new 15

00:33:02 ◼   ► is only a half pound savings,

00:33:03 ◼   ► it went from like 4.5 to 4.0, that's enough to ruin me.

00:33:08 ◼   ► So now I pick up the old one and it feels really old.

00:33:11 ◼   ► Then the event, or the announcements rather,

00:33:15 ◼   ► the other day, yesterday?

00:33:16 ◼   ► The other day came out.

00:33:18 ◼   ► And I thought, Apple is sure to update the MacBook One,

00:33:22 ◼   ► so let me wait for this announcement,

00:33:23 ◼   ► and then I will probably just order a MacBook One,

00:33:26 ◼   ► which with the new, hopefully with the new keyboard,

00:33:28 ◼   ► and with the new, maybe a faster thunder,

00:33:31 ◼   ► maybe Thunderbolt instead of just USB-C or whatever else.

00:33:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:34 ◼   ► - Yep, I was gonna do the same thing for the record.

00:33:36 ◼   ► I had every intention of buying myself

00:33:39 ◼   ► a MacBook adorable slash MacBook one

00:33:41 ◼   ► slash officially called MacBook.

00:33:43 ◼   ► - The 12 inch MacBook.

00:33:45 ◼   ► - Right, I was planning to buy one yesterday,

00:33:47 ◼   ► I was locked and loaded, ready to go,

00:33:48 ◼   ► and then not so much.

00:33:50 ◼   ► So what did you do?

00:33:51 ◼   ► See, I know how to not spend money,

00:33:54 ◼   ► but if there's anything you know how to do,

00:33:58 ◼   ► not spending money is not on that list.

00:33:59 ◼   ► You do not know how to not spend money.

00:34:02 ◼   ► - All I can do is rationalize spending a little bit

00:34:04 ◼   ► less money than I was going to spend anyway.

00:34:06 ◼   ► But anyway, the day came and went,

00:34:09 ◼   ► They had their big barrage of press releases,

00:34:10 ◼   ► which you look at too, don't worry,

00:34:11 ◼   ► everyone will get to that.

00:34:12 ◼   ► And they didn't release basically anything I wanted,

00:34:15 ◼   ► but they didn't release the MacBook One.

00:34:19 ◼   ► So I decided, you know what, let me go to the Apple Store.

00:34:21 ◼   ► Now that everything's in stock,

00:34:23 ◼   ► I'll spend some real time with the MacBook Escape

00:34:26 ◼   ► and the MacBook One side by side.

00:34:28 ◼   ► And to just see like, should I just wait for an escape,

00:34:31 ◼   ► or should I just buy an escape now,

00:34:34 ◼   ► or should I wait for the MacBook One update

00:34:36 ◼   ► that might happen in a couple of weeks

00:34:39 ◼   ► or it might happen in six months or it might never happen.

00:34:43 ◼   ► We have no idea, right?

00:34:45 ◼   ► This is modern Apple, who knows when things will come out.

00:34:47 ◼   ► There's no relation anymore to like Intel schedules.

00:34:50 ◼   ► So it could come out any time or never.

00:34:53 ◼   ► So anyway, so I went to the store,

00:34:56 ◼   ► side by side, MacBook escape to MacBook One.

00:34:59 ◼   ► The weight difference between them is noticeable.

00:35:01 ◼   ► It's two pounds versus three pounds.

00:35:02 ◼   ► So it's a noticeable weight difference.

00:35:04 ◼   ► It's a noticeable size difference.

00:35:06 ◼   ► But the MacBook Escape is the same approximate size

00:35:09 ◼   ► and weight as the 13 inch MacBook Air has always been.

00:35:12 ◼   ► It feels great, it's small, and critically,

00:35:17 ◼   ► it is basically a retina MacBook Air in its internals,

00:35:20 ◼   ► and so it has amazing battery life,

00:35:22 ◼   ► the best battery life in the whole lineup.

00:35:24 ◼   ► And one of my problems with the 15 inch

00:35:26 ◼   ► is that the battery life is just not that great.

00:35:29 ◼   ► It's not horrible, but it's not great,

00:35:31 ◼   ► and it varies tremendously with what you're doing

00:35:34 ◼   ► because it has that high powered GPU

00:35:36 ◼   ► and the nice big four core CPU and everything else.

00:35:38 ◼   ► So 15 inch varies a lot and isn't even great to begin with.

00:35:42 ◼   ► The MacBook Escape has, and by the way,

00:35:44 ◼   ► I should clarify my stupid name for that,

00:35:46 ◼   ► that's the 13 inch MacBook Pro 2016

00:35:49 ◼   ► with two Thunderbolt ports,

00:35:51 ◼   ► also known as the non-touch bar 13 inch MacBook Pro.

00:35:54 ◼   ► All these wonderful, see, my name is better than Apple's.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Okay, so anyway, the MacBook Escape.

00:35:59 ◼   ► It is not as small and light as I would love it to be,

00:36:02 ◼   ► but it's pretty small and light.

00:36:04 ◼   ► The MacBook One, now again, this is the now year old version

00:36:07 ◼   ► so maybe this will change in the new one.

00:36:10 ◼   ► But the keyboard difference side by side

00:36:13 ◼   ► is not a big difference, but it is noticeable.

00:36:17 ◼   ► And the MacBook One keyboard is worse by a noticeable amount.

00:36:22 ◼   ► The ergonomic difference is more noticeable

00:36:25 ◼   ► than I would have guessed.

00:36:26 ◼   ► The MacBook One feels great when you're holding it.

00:36:28 ◼   ► When you pick it up, when you're carrying it around,

00:36:31 ◼   ► it feels great.

00:36:32 ◼   ► I don't care for how you have to open the lid,

00:36:35 ◼   ► basically with two hands,

00:36:37 ◼   ► because it's so thin and so small

00:36:39 ◼   ► that you can't really wedge your thumb under

00:36:43 ◼   ► the little lip area and push down on what's below it

00:36:45 ◼   ► like you can with the bigger ones.

00:36:47 ◼   ► - But you don't have to.

00:36:47 ◼   ► That's Apple's whole big thing.

00:36:48 ◼   ► You can do it with one hand and the base stays down.

00:36:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, that, mm.

00:36:52 ◼   ► - It does, it really does.

00:36:53 ◼   ► I try it all the time on the Apple Store

00:36:54 ◼   ► and I'm amazed at how often, how it works.

00:36:56 ◼   ► I actually try, you're right that it's hard

00:36:58 ◼   ► to get your finger under it,

00:36:59 ◼   ► but if you let go of the notion

00:37:01 ◼   ► and you actually need to hold the bass down

00:37:03 ◼   ► and you can manage to get your little finger

00:37:04 ◼   ► under the lip, I swear to you

00:37:06 ◼   ► that the bass will stay on the table.

00:37:08 ◼   ► - Oh, I didn't realize that.

00:37:09 ◼   ► Okay, anyway, so it didn't feel as good.

00:37:13 ◼   ► It felt like a little bit flimsy to do that.

00:37:14 ◼   ► It's just like, it's not a huge deal,

00:37:16 ◼   ► but when you compare 'em side by side,

00:37:18 ◼   ► it's an obvious difference.

00:37:19 ◼   ► Also, when I had the MacBook Escape for a day and a half,

00:37:23 ◼   ► when it first came, I mean, sorry, the MacBook One,

00:37:25 ◼   ► for a day and a half when it first came out,

00:37:27 ◼   ► one problem I had with it was that actually on my lap,

00:37:30 ◼   ► it was too narrow and it would sit too low on my legs

00:37:33 ◼   ► as a result, it wouldn't quite span across my leg gap

00:37:36 ◼   ► quite well enough and I actually found it

00:37:39 ◼   ► not that pleasant to use on my lap.

00:37:42 ◼   ► It would be great on an airplane tray table

00:37:44 ◼   ► and it'd be totally suitable on a desk and anything else

00:37:47 ◼   ► but on my lap I actually found it was actually

00:37:50 ◼   ► not quite wide enough to really be comfortable there.

00:37:53 ◼   ► And the biggest difference to me is that

00:37:56 ◼   ► the MacBook One's trackpad is truly awful.

00:38:00 ◼   ► It is horrendous how different,

00:38:03 ◼   ► like when you feel them side by side,

00:38:05 ◼   ► even on the same settings,

00:38:06 ◼   ► on the same like force touch firmness level or whatever,

00:38:10 ◼   ► the difference in the click feel and the responsiveness

00:38:13 ◼   ► between the MacBook One and the MacBook Escape

00:38:15 ◼   ► is massive on the trackpad.

00:38:17 ◼   ► It's a huge difference.

00:38:19 ◼   ► I basically decided then that, you know,

00:38:21 ◼   ► I actually don't think I want a MacBook One, again,

00:38:25 ◼   ► even if it gets updated.

00:38:27 ◼   ► So I played with the escape a little bit longer,

00:38:30 ◼   ► played with the one a little bit longer,

00:38:31 ◼   ► firmed up my decision, went home,

00:38:33 ◼   ► and ordered a maxed out MacBook escape.

00:38:35 ◼   ► Except for I didn't get the terabyte, I got the 512.

00:38:38 ◼   ► - Still time for you to cancel that order, again.

00:38:40 ◼   ► - I already canceled the same order once, six months ago.

00:38:43 ◼   ► - I know, that's what I'm saying.

00:38:44 ◼   ► I thought, "Are we gonna make it this time?

00:38:45 ◼   ► "Is it gonna make it?"

00:38:47 ◼   ► - I'll see how it goes, and ask me again,

00:38:49 ◼   ► you know, in a couple of weeks.

00:38:52 ◼   ► - What are you doing with your old one?

00:38:54 ◼   ► Once I'm sure that I'm going to keep the escape,

00:38:57 ◼   ► I'll sell the 15, unless Casey wants it,

00:38:59 ◼   ► I can sell it to you.

00:39:01 ◼   ► - So you were like the proverbial little old lady

00:39:04 ◼   ► who only drove to church on Sunday.

00:39:06 ◼   ► If you want a lightly used laptop for a reasonable price,

00:39:10 ◼   ► just wait for Marco to get bored of it.

00:39:11 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:39:12 ◼   ► - Oh, goodness.

00:39:13 ◼   ► I don't even know what to do with you.

00:39:16 ◼   ► Though I'm most disappointed that you didn't get

00:39:18 ◼   ► a MacBook One, because I would have bought that off of you

00:39:20 ◼   ► in two weeks or two weeks of the day

00:39:23 ◼   ► when you decide that you don't want this one,

00:39:25 ◼   ► but as it turns out, that's not what you bought.

00:39:26 ◼   ► - Well now you can have the complete opposite,

00:39:28 ◼   ► you can have the 15 inch.

00:39:29 ◼   ► - No, I don't want a 15 inch.

00:39:31 ◼   ► - Neither do I. - Like the Touch Bar

00:39:31 ◼   ► does interest me, but I don't want that.

00:39:33 ◼   ► Like I'm not saying that it's bad, I'm not saying,

00:39:35 ◼   ► it's just, today, with my needs today, I don't want it,

00:39:39 ◼   ► because what I really want is a new 15 inch

00:39:41 ◼   ► with Touch Bar for work, but I'm not gonna get

00:39:44 ◼   ► another computer for work for like two or three years, so.

00:39:47 ◼   ► Alas, anyway.

00:39:48 ◼   ► - Like what, the reason I got the 15 to begin with

00:39:51 ◼   ► was that I had originally ordered

00:39:53 ◼   ► this exact same MacBook escape configuration

00:39:56 ◼   ► that I just reordered.

00:39:57 ◼   ► On day one I ordered that,

00:39:58 ◼   ► and because it was day one

00:39:59 ◼   ► there was like a two week delay or something

00:40:01 ◼   ► 'cause they were all backed up.

00:40:02 ◼   ► And in the meantime I convinced myself,

00:40:05 ◼   ► you know, whatever, I think it's like $2,200,

00:40:07 ◼   ► like $2,200 for effectively a souped up MacBook Air

00:40:11 ◼   ► is kind of a lot,

00:40:13 ◼   ► and I didn't feel good about the value of that.

00:40:14 ◼   ► And the 15 inch, for bang for the buck,

00:40:18 ◼   ► the 15 inch is a way better buy

00:40:20 ◼   ► than any of the other laptops.

00:40:22 ◼   ► And so I kind of rationaled myself into a 15 inch.

00:40:25 ◼   ► And I also thought the Touch Bar would be a bigger deal,

00:40:27 ◼   ► and I should have some experience with it.

00:40:29 ◼   ► And it turns out that in an effort to get the best value

00:40:34 ◼   ► for my money, I got a computer that was actually

00:40:37 ◼   ► not the right computer for me.

00:40:39 ◼   ► So there's a lesson there somewhere, I don't know.

00:40:41 ◼   ► And the Touch Bar ended up not really sticking for me.

00:40:44 ◼   ► So there we go.

00:40:46 ◼   ► - All right, 45 minutes into our recording,

00:40:48 ◼   ► we can finally be done with follow up.

00:40:50 ◼   ► - Told you, Jon, it was gonna be a quick one.

00:40:51 ◼   ► - That was a topic, come on.

00:40:53 ◼   ► - Somebody spent a while on a particular topic,

00:40:56 ◼   ► but I'm not gonna say who.

00:40:58 ◼   ► - Casey.

00:40:59 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, totally me.

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00:43:03 ◼   ► Squarespace, make your next move.

00:43:05 ◼   ► - I wanted to cover something before we go too big

00:43:11 ◼   ► into the last 48 hours worth of announcements.

00:43:15 ◼   ► There was a little bit of talk, but not a lot, about the Apple shareholder diversity

00:43:21 ◼   ► proposal.

00:43:22 ◼   ► And this always struck me as a little weird, and how Apple's handling it is a little weird.

00:43:29 ◼   ► But if you recall, for the last couple of shareholder meetings, maybe even several now,

00:43:34 ◼   ► there's been some sort of, and I don't know the appropriate terminology, but there's been

00:43:39 ◼   ► a thing that they had to vote on that shareholders had petitioned Apple for, where the general

00:43:46 ◼   ► premise of this particular thing they're voting on is to adopt an accelerated recruitment

00:43:51 ◼   ► policy to increase the diversity of senior management and its board of directors.

00:43:55 ◼   ► That's actually coming off a Verge article put in the show notes.

00:43:58 ◼   ► And this has been voted down yet again.

00:44:01 ◼   ► And I have mixed feelings about this, which I probably shouldn't, because on the one side

00:44:08 ◼   ► I feel like, well, they have an executive team that everyone but Marco thinks is working

00:44:12 ◼   ► okay.

00:44:14 ◼   ► It seems a little silly to just throw one or more of them out for the sake of diversity,

00:44:20 ◼   ► but on the other side of the coin, diversity is a good thing.

00:44:25 ◼   ► I think that having a more diverse executive team might help get rid of some of these issues

00:44:30 ◼   ► that we've seen.

00:44:31 ◼   ► I don't know which one specifically, but just a different thing—I was going to say outside

00:44:35 ◼   ► the box thinking, but it's not even outside the box thinking. Just different thinking could be

00:44:39 ◼   ► helpful, which to Marco's credit is I think a lot of the point that you were trying to make last

00:44:42 ◼   ► week. I'm disappointed by this. Like, I'm not entirely surprised that this is the way the

00:44:48 ◼   ► vote came, and I know that Apple was pushing pretty hard for shareholders to say no to this.

00:44:56 ◼   ► And so I am disappointed. I'm not surprised, but I'm disappointed. And I kind of wish that Apple

00:45:02 ◼   ► would say something more directly about their lack of diversity, really across the company,

00:45:10 ◼   ► but particularly amongst executives. And yes, I'm aware that they've been making this big push for

00:45:16 ◼   ► diversity, or so they say, but I feel like it's not really hitting the upper echelons of Apple,

00:45:23 ◼   ► and that's not a good thing. And I guess maybe my conflicting feelings are just about,

00:45:28 ◼   ► I think it would be good to do what this shareholder, whatever, is trying to do.

00:45:35 ◼   ► This just seems like a peculiar way to go about doing it.

00:45:38 ◼   ► But I guess this is the only way a shareholder can force Apple's hand.

00:45:41 ◼   ► I don't know. I know that's very muddy and gray, but do you guys have any thoughts on this?

00:45:45 ◼   ► Joe: Well, this thing doesn't ask them to throw out executives.

00:45:48 ◼   ► Like, that's not the choice they're making here.

00:45:49 ◼   ► "Oh, adopt this proposal and you have to can one of your top executives."

00:45:52 ◼   ► No, they totally don't.

00:45:53 ◼   ► I think we talked about this maybe one of the earlier times that it came up,

00:45:58 ◼   ► and I think the situation is still the same and it boils down to companies don't like being told

00:46:04 ◼   ► what to do, right? So the fact that this is a shareholder proposal and that it's coming from

00:46:08 ◼   ► the outside and that these shareholders are trying to say, "Apple, you should do this specific thing,"

00:46:12 ◼   ► I think just institutionally all corporations are like, "You're not the boss of me. You can't," like,

00:46:19 ◼   ► and Apple's answer is always this weird sort of vaguely hostile mumbo jumbo to say, "Look,

00:46:26 ◼   ► Like we already have our own initiatives about diversity

00:46:29 ◼   ► that are actually broader than this very narrow proposal,

00:46:32 ◼   ► therefore we reject it.

00:46:33 ◼   ► But every time I look at this thing go,

00:46:34 ◼   ► I have to think like,

00:46:35 ◼   ► this is not even actually about diversity.

00:46:38 ◼   ► It is totally about the idea that big companies

00:46:43 ◼   ► and especially Apple,

00:46:44 ◼   ► their default position on every single share over

00:46:47 ◼   ► of the proposal is no, no, no, no.

00:46:49 ◼   ► We have a board of directors.

00:46:51 ◼   ► We are the bosses of ourselves,

00:46:52 ◼   ► even though you technically own the company

00:46:54 ◼   ► or some large portion of the company through your shares

00:46:56 ◼   ► or whatever, there are not enough of you,

00:46:58 ◼   ► there is not enough of a coalition

00:47:00 ◼   ► to make it worth our while to listen to you,

00:47:02 ◼   ► you cannot tell us what to do.

00:47:04 ◼   ► And it doesn't matter what it's about,

00:47:05 ◼   ► whether it's about, you know, renewable energy

00:47:09 ◼   ► or executive compensation or diversity over the years,

00:47:14 ◼   ► looking at these types of proposals

00:47:17 ◼   ► and seeing all the stories about like,

00:47:18 ◼   ► just Apple always advises to reject all of them.

00:47:22 ◼   ► And it's kind of a shame

00:47:23 ◼   ► This one is specifically about diversity.

00:47:25 ◼   ► I'm not sure if the proposal,

00:47:28 ◼   ► it would be better or worse

00:47:29 ◼   ► at advancing the cause of diversity within Apple

00:47:33 ◼   ► than what Apple is already doing.

00:47:34 ◼   ► It's difficult to tell because again,

00:47:35 ◼   ► these of you tend to be very focused

00:47:37 ◼   ► and kind of not vindictive, but like,

00:47:41 ◼   ► like, come on Apple, you gotta,

00:47:42 ◼   ► whatever you're doing, it's taking too long

00:47:45 ◼   ► and it is being ineffective.

00:47:46 ◼   ► So here is a more aggressive thing

00:47:48 ◼   ► that may or may not have as much regard

00:47:52 ◼   ► for the success of the company overall,

00:47:53 ◼   ► but just saying, look, Apple, you gotta get off your butt.

00:47:55 ◼   ► So it could be the most important function of these

00:47:58 ◼   ► is to let Apple know and know in certain terms

00:48:00 ◼   ► that they're not doing a good enough job, right?

00:48:04 ◼   ► And that's why enough shareholders got together

00:48:06 ◼   ► to make this proposal and to vote on it.

00:48:08 ◼   ► Apple's still gonna recommend against it

00:48:09 ◼   ► and Apple's still gonna think their plan is good,

00:48:10 ◼   ► but hopefully the message is getting through

00:48:12 ◼   ► that whatever it is that you're doing,

00:48:14 ◼   ► you're not doing it fast enough or well enough.

00:48:16 ◼   ► But I continue to think that Apple will reject

00:48:18 ◼   ► every single one of these proposals.

00:48:20 ◼   ► or Apple will encourage the rest of the shareholders

00:48:23 ◼   ► to reject them rather because these go up for a vote

00:48:24 ◼   ► for all the shareholders and Apple has a recommendation.

00:48:27 ◼   ► We think shareholders should vote this down

00:48:28 ◼   ► and in the end they tend to because

00:48:31 ◼   ► the shareholders of Apple,

00:48:32 ◼   ► they are, you know, at a certain point,

00:48:34 ◼   ► it's a small number of very rich shareholders

00:48:36 ◼   ► who are inclined to do what the corporation says

00:48:38 ◼   ► versus a much larger number

00:48:40 ◼   ► of not quite as rich shareholders

00:48:42 ◼   ► who are backing this type of proposal.

00:48:44 ◼   ► So it is kind of a difficult and uncomfortable situation.

00:48:49 ◼   ► But I think Apple should be getting the message

00:48:52 ◼   ► and Apple needs to change what it's doing,

00:48:54 ◼   ► even if it continues to reject all.

00:48:56 ◼   ► It continues to encourage its shareholders

00:48:59 ◼   ► to throw these down and their shareholders

00:49:00 ◼   ► continue to do so.

00:49:01 ◼   ► - It's just a tough situation

00:49:04 ◼   ► and I wish that there was a easy turnkey answer,

00:49:07 ◼   ► but I just wanted to call attention to that.

00:49:09 ◼   ► So breaking news just before we recorded,

00:49:13 ◼   ► in a rare stroke of good luck for ATP,

00:49:15 ◼   ► it seems that Apple, clearly the executives

00:49:18 ◼   ► listen to this program because we're getting a new Mac Pro. Wait, never mind, I

00:49:21 ◼   ► guess they don't listen. But anyway, they seem to all, the Apple executive seemed

00:49:27 ◼   ► to always want to do Apple news on Thursdays, which is the day after we

00:49:31 ◼   ► record. But in a rare stroke of good luck on this evening, like an hour or two

00:49:35 ◼   ► before we started recording, it was announced, and I first saw it on Tech

00:49:39 ◼   ► Crunch by a friend of the show, Matt Pansarino, that Apple has bought the app

00:49:44 ◼   ► and the company that makes it called Workflow, which if you listen to any of

00:49:50 ◼   ► the shows of some of our friends you'll know that people like Mike Hurley and

00:49:55 ◼   ► Federico Vittucci for example are huge into Workflow. I've used it a bunch. I

00:49:59 ◼   ► really like it. I'm nowhere near their level, but I do like it and use it. And

00:50:04 ◼   ► this is a trick. Just whether or not Workflow has a place in your life, it is

00:50:11 ◼   ► is a phenomenally impressive app. And basically, it's sort of kind of like Automator is on OSX,

00:50:19 ◼   ► or excuse me, Mac OS. That's not a truly fair analogy, but sort of that kind of thing where

00:50:24 ◼   ► you can, you have a series of different actions that you can string together, also vaguely,

00:50:29 ◼   ► similar to If This Then That. And you can string these actions together to do, to create workflows,

00:50:34 ◼   ► and to do these just unbelievably complex things. So Apple has bought workflow, and

00:50:40 ◼   ► the three founders of the company are going to be working for Apple. And that's really,

00:50:47 ◼   ► really exciting. Now I'm also hearing breaking news that I haven't yet confirmed that apparently

00:50:52 ◼   ► they're already, they've already made the app free, good, but they're already removing

00:50:58 ◼   ► Chrome support and Street View actions because Apple.

00:51:02 ◼   ► - Well, actually there might be something else to that.

00:51:05 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:51:06 ◼   ► - So a couple of weeks ago, or yeah, recently,

00:51:10 ◼   ► like a week ago or something like that,

00:51:12 ◼   ► I got an email from Workflow.

00:51:14 ◼   ► I don't want to go into too many of the details

00:51:16 ◼   ► because I don't know if they wanted this

00:51:18 ◼   ► to be public or not, so I'll try to be tasteful here.

00:51:21 ◼   ► But basically, Workflow has supported

00:51:23 ◼   ► Overcast URL Scheme for quite some time.

00:51:27 ◼   ► And I got an email basically from asking me

00:51:30 ◼   ► to sign a legal document that basically says

00:51:35 ◼   ► it's okay for them to call my app via its URL schemes.

00:51:39 ◼   ► Something on the lines of like,

00:51:40 ◼   ► if you want us to continue supporting this in the future,

00:51:44 ◼   ► please sign this document.

00:51:46 ◼   ► And my best guess at the time,

00:51:48 ◼   ► which turned out to be true, is that

00:51:50 ◼   ► somebody is about to invest a lot of money in them

00:51:52 ◼   ► or acquire them and is doing due diligence.

00:51:55 ◼   ► And somebody's lawyer told the somebody

00:51:57 ◼   ► with all the money buying them or investing in them,

00:52:00 ◼   ► You know they should really shore this up

00:52:01 ◼   ► in some kind of legal fashion to make sure

00:52:03 ◼   ► that none of the apps that workflow calls via URL schemes

00:52:07 ◼   ► would later threaten them in any legal way

00:52:10 ◼   ► for using like an undocumented API

00:52:12 ◼   ► or using an API without permission or something like that.

00:52:16 ◼   ► My best guess with the immediate removal

00:52:19 ◼   ► of the Google related features

00:52:21 ◼   ► is not that Apple is being a jerk to Google,

00:52:25 ◼   ► but that Google probably just didn't respond

00:52:27 ◼   ► and didn't even consider signing this document

00:52:28 ◼   ► 'cause it was basically a very, very simple

00:52:33 ◼   ► but still legal contract-like document.

00:52:37 ◼   ► I'm not a lawyer, I can't tell you exactly what it was,

00:52:38 ◼   ► but it looked like a very simple contract.

00:52:41 ◼   ► So you would imagine emailing Google to say,

00:52:43 ◼   ► "Hey, sign this contract, please,

00:52:44 ◼   ► "so we can keep calling you from our iOS app."

00:52:47 ◼   ► Like, I don't think that's gonna be a high priority

00:52:50 ◼   ► for Google's legal department to review and--

00:52:52 ◼   ► - But they're usually so responsive to people

00:52:54 ◼   ► who email them on that issue.

00:52:55 ◼   ► It's so out of character for them.

00:52:57 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:52:58 ◼   ► So basically, I'm guessing that, again,

00:53:01 ◼   ► this is not some kind of like, you know,

00:53:04 ◼   ► Apple immediately being a jerk to Google

00:53:05 ◼   ► because they're Google, it's probably Google didn't feel

00:53:09 ◼   ► like it was worth responding to that

00:53:10 ◼   ► or hasn't gotten to it yet or legal decided

00:53:12 ◼   ► it wasn't worth the legal implications of it.

00:53:15 ◼   ► And so, you know, after the acquisition,

00:53:18 ◼   ► Apple probably just says, "All right, well,

00:53:19 ◼   ► "this is your deadline that anybody,

00:53:21 ◼   ► "just for legal protection reasons for themselves,

00:53:23 ◼   ► "anybody who hasn't signed this document

00:53:25 ◼   ► "saying you can call their secret APIs

00:53:26 ◼   ► or URL schemes or whatever, you can't do it anymore.

00:53:30 ◼   ► - That's an interesting take.

00:53:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, so the bigger issue on workflow though is like,

00:53:35 ◼   ► I've just saw this acquisition,

00:53:36 ◼   ► what I immediately felt was I felt bad for Vitici and Mike

00:53:41 ◼   ► and all the other workflow enthusiasts

00:53:44 ◼   ► because when Apple buys a company

00:53:48 ◼   ► that does something like this,

00:53:50 ◼   ► it can go a couple different ways.

00:53:51 ◼   ► It can be what they call an aqua hire

00:53:52 ◼   ► where the whole point is they're just buying it

00:53:54 ◼   ► to get these employees who have proven

00:53:55 ◼   ► they're really, really good iOS developers. And so we, or Apple, we would love really

00:54:00 ◼   ► good iOS developers. Let's buy the company. And now we've got those developers. And then

00:54:04 ◼   ► the product just gets sunsetted. It becomes free. It hangs out for a while.

00:54:08 ◼   ► Is it sunsat?

00:54:09 ◼   ► Sunsat, yeah. And then it just goes away. Other possibilities are like what they did

00:54:13 ◼   ► with TestFlight, where they buy it and it continues to exist, but now is an Apple internal

00:54:19 ◼   ► thing. But here's the deal. Even in that scenario, Apple's priorities are different than the

00:54:24 ◼   ► the priorities of an independent workflow company, even for strategy tax things like

00:54:28 ◼   ► even though this Chrome thing is probably not that, right?

00:54:30 ◼   ► But Apple has different priorities.

00:54:32 ◼   ► Different things are important to Apple as the platform owner than they are as someone

00:54:35 ◼   ► writing an application on the platform.

00:54:37 ◼   ► So even in the best case, workflow is going to change in ways that are better for Apple

00:54:43 ◼   ► and probably not better for existing workflow customers.

00:54:48 ◼   ► It could change in ways that are better for both because they have now workloads access

00:54:51 ◼   ► private API's and knows about the road map or whatever workflow itself could be integrated

00:54:55 ◼   ► into the next major version of iOS as a core feature of the OS to stop being an independent

00:55:00 ◼   ► application or become a bundled application like there are good scenarios this but either way

00:55:05 ◼   ► it is a disruption to the workflow of all the people who use this application as part of their

00:55:10 ◼   ► daily work even if you just have to rejigger all your scripts and change things around so

00:55:17 ◼   ► There may be a really bad situation

00:55:20 ◼   ► for people who love workflow.

00:55:21 ◼   ► But as someone who has workflow and uses a little bit,

00:55:25 ◼   ► but don't have--

00:55:26 ◼   ► my work is not intimately tied into it,

00:55:30 ◼   ► I think I'm hoping that it is yet another sign that Apple is

00:55:36 ◼   ► trying to do things to make iOS a more powerful platform

00:55:39 ◼   ► for people with more demanding needs.

00:55:41 ◼   ► Because I don't want to believe that it was purely these guys

00:55:46 ◼   ► are good iOS developers, get them and have them do something.

00:55:49 ◼   ► I want to believe it's because they recognize

00:55:51 ◼   ► that the people who are using iOS devices in the most

00:55:56 ◼   ► sophisticated way love workflow.

00:55:59 ◼   ► And that's something-- those capabilities

00:56:01 ◼   ► should be part of the operating system

00:56:02 ◼   ► to make iOS on the iPad, or even on the phone for that matter,

00:56:06 ◼   ► a more capable system.

00:56:08 ◼   ► So I think overall it's encouraging.

00:56:11 ◼   ► But for anybody who really, really love workflow,

00:56:13 ◼   ► I think the very near future is either slightly painful or very grim, but the longer term

00:56:20 ◼   ► future for the platform I think is better.

00:56:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, the way Workflow, you know, Workflow has a lot of

00:56:27 ◼   ► different features these days, but kind of the core of it and the first part of it before

00:56:33 ◼   ► it had all these new API-related features was it was just calling URL schemes for apps

00:56:38 ◼   ► and using X callback URL and everything else.

00:56:41 ◼   ► And, you know, X callback URL,

00:56:44 ◼   ► I don't say this to brag,

00:56:47 ◼   ► I say this as historical context.

00:56:49 ◼   ► Greg Pierce and I actually invented that.

00:56:53 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:56:54 ◼   ► Greg Pierce is the developer of Drafts

00:56:56 ◼   ► and also a couple other apps,

00:56:58 ◼   ► and one of them is Terminology,

00:57:00 ◼   ► which is like a fancy dictionary app, basically.

00:57:03 ◼   ► And back in 2010, he contacted me asking,

00:57:07 ◼   ► Is there a way that we can make Instapaper

00:57:10 ◼   ► basically shell out to terminology

00:57:12 ◼   ► for its dictionary lookups?

00:57:15 ◼   ► And we basically went back and forth

00:57:17 ◼   ► over a couple days via email and worked out

00:57:19 ◼   ► this URL scheme called X Callback,

00:57:22 ◼   ► and you could just, it had these parameters,

00:57:25 ◼   ► and it was basically the first thing I knew of on iOS

00:57:27 ◼   ► where there was a defined protocol that you could launch,

00:57:31 ◼   ► you could shell out to another app via URL scheme

00:57:33 ◼   ► and give that app a way to call you back when it's done.

00:57:37 ◼   ► At the time, I think both of us looked at this

00:57:39 ◼   ► as a tremendous hack.

00:57:42 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:57:43 ◼   ► And it became big anyway.

00:57:46 ◼   ► And Greg went and really kind of took the ball

00:57:51 ◼   ► and ran with it and made a whole site and directory

00:57:55 ◼   ► about X Callback URL, formally documented this little

00:58:00 ◼   ► fairly simple URL scheme spec that we had come up with,

00:58:03 ◼   ► and then made this big directory of all the different apps

00:58:05 ◼   ► that used it and documented all the URL schemes,

00:58:07 ◼   ► and that's really what made the world

00:58:10 ◼   ► of X Callback URL take off, was that big site that he ran

00:58:13 ◼   ► and publicizing it and everything else.

00:58:15 ◼   ► But even back then, this was 2010, remember,

00:58:17 ◼   ► even back then, I think both Greg and I looked at it

00:58:20 ◼   ► as this is really a temporary need,

00:58:24 ◼   ► that surely in the future, iOS is going to add

00:58:28 ◼   ► some better ways of interapp communication and scripting

00:58:31 ◼   ► and things like that, other ways to solve this problem

00:58:35 ◼   ► that isn't calling URL schemes in the background

00:58:38 ◼   ► and launching apps and then kicking you

00:58:40 ◼   ► between different apps and having them all

00:58:41 ◼   ► come to the program for a second and then kick you back.

00:58:43 ◼   ► That is kind of a terrible hack.

00:58:46 ◼   ► And now, almost seven years later,

00:58:50 ◼   ► iOS has added extensions, which help tremendously,

00:58:54 ◼   ► but only in certain ways, like only in the extension points

00:58:57 ◼   ► and only in the very strict ways those are defined

00:58:59 ◼   ► and in the very limited areas that they exist in.

00:59:02 ◼   ► So extensions help a little,

00:59:04 ◼   ► but what they need is something bigger.

00:59:07 ◼   ► And on the Mac, they have the entire AppleScript interface,

00:59:09 ◼   ► not to mention everything from the Unix system below it,

00:59:13 ◼   ► all the different scripting and IPC mechanisms

00:59:16 ◼   ► that are all over the Mac OS.

00:59:17 ◼   ► The Mac has this very well covered,

00:59:19 ◼   ► but iOS still really doesn't.

00:59:21 ◼   ► So there is very much a need.

00:59:25 ◼   ► If Apple wants to keep pushing iOS into productivity,

00:59:28 ◼   ► which is especially important for the iPad business,

00:59:30 ◼   ► I'd say, and it sure wouldn't hurt

00:59:34 ◼   ► the iPhone business either.

00:59:36 ◼   ► But if Apple wants to push people

00:59:38 ◼   ► into more productivity use on iOS,

00:59:41 ◼   ► they need automation systems like this.

00:59:43 ◼   ► They need mechanisms in the OS itself

00:59:47 ◼   ► for apps to communicate with each other,

00:59:50 ◼   ► automate each other, and for users to help

00:59:54 ◼   ► define, write, and edit, and chain together those automations

00:59:58 ◼   ► And again, on the Mac they have all this already,

01:00:00 ◼   ► they've had it for years, decades even.

01:00:03 ◼   ► If I was a user of Workflow, I would not feel great

01:00:06 ◼   ► about the future of that app right now,

01:00:08 ◼   ► because in any acquisition, the future of the app that,

01:00:12 ◼   ► and this is, I think, clearly, mostly an acqui-hire.

01:00:16 ◼   ► I know in the official story to the press,

01:00:20 ◼   ► I think they said it wasn't,

01:00:21 ◼   ► but I think it pretty clearly is.

01:00:23 ◼   ► Everyone always says it isn't, everyone always says

01:00:25 ◼   ► their product's gonna keep going indefinitely,

01:00:27 ◼   ► and it's gonna be wonderful.

01:00:27 ◼   ► we have great plans for the future,

01:00:29 ◼   ► and then it gets sunset.

01:00:31 ◼   ► So I would not depend on this app being there

01:00:35 ◼   ► in say a year or two.

01:00:37 ◼   ► But I do think that there's a good chance

01:00:40 ◼   ► that the reason they bought this app

01:00:42 ◼   ► and the reason they hired this talented team

01:00:46 ◼   ► who's really good at iOS automation

01:00:48 ◼   ► probably has something to do with an effort

01:00:51 ◼   ► to improve iOS automation at the system level.

01:00:54 ◼   ► And again, I think pretty much everything John said

01:00:56 ◼   ► that I agree with, that I would not expect this app

01:01:00 ◼   ► to continue to exist in two years, say.

01:01:04 ◼   ► I would bet that, it's too late probably for iOS 11,

01:01:09 ◼   ► but I would bet by iOS 12 or 13,

01:01:11 ◼   ► there is something, there is some kind of system

01:01:15 ◼   ► or new technology in the OS that is better

01:01:19 ◼   ► in some way at automation than URL schemes

01:01:23 ◼   ► and things like that, which would make, say,

01:01:27 ◼   ► 70% of workflow unnecessary.

01:01:30 ◼   ► And Apple would consider that good enough,

01:01:31 ◼   ► and then they would kill the app.

01:01:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

01:01:35 ◼   ► My first reaction is, oh, this app is going away immediately.

01:01:39 ◼   ► And then, as I thought more about it, I thought,

01:01:43 ◼   ► you know, the most obvious answer to me

01:01:46 ◼   ► is what you said, Marco, which is,

01:01:48 ◼   ► it'll get sucked into iOS maybe in 12, if not 11,

01:01:52 ◼   ► but, or whatever we're on now,

01:01:54 ◼   ► God, I'm losing track.

01:01:56 ◼   ► But anyways, it'll get sucked into some version of,

01:01:58 ◼   ► yeah, thank you, it'll get sucked into some version of iOS,

01:02:02 ◼   ► and then it'll go away and that'll be that.

01:02:04 ◼   ► But then I got thinking about it more,

01:02:06 ◼   ► and the reason I felt like it would get sucked into iOS

01:02:10 ◼   ► is because it feels like this is wrong

01:02:12 ◼   ► for Apple to make an app that is so feature rich

01:02:15 ◼   ► and offers so much functionality

01:02:17 ◼   ► that isn't part of the OS itself.

01:02:18 ◼   ► And that very well still could be.

01:02:20 ◼   ► But then I got to thinking about like,

01:02:22 ◼   ► iMovie or GarageBand or

01:02:24 ◼   ► you know some of these other apps like that and it occurred to me that

01:02:29 ◼   ► You know those are pretty full-featured apps and yeah, it's less of a system level thing like that the problem domain

01:02:35 ◼   ► I think is a little more bounded, but they're really really big

01:02:39 ◼   ► complex kind of intense apps that are Apple branded, but are

01:02:46 ◼   ► Downloaded optionally from the App Store, and so this may not be any different

01:02:51 ◼   ► I'm disappointed by, but like you said Marco, maybe it's for good reason that some of the

01:02:57 ◼   ► third-party stuff is already getting neutered.

01:02:59 ◼   ► But nevertheless, I'm pretty optimistic about this, probably in part because I don't rely

01:03:04 ◼   ► on it to get my job done.

01:03:06 ◼   ► But I'm pretty optimistic about this because it's kind of a win-win, right?

01:03:10 ◼   ► Either a lot of this functionality gets built into iOS and makes iOS more powerful, or if

01:03:14 ◼   ► it's kept in some vague form like it is today, well, it's a great darn app.

01:03:20 ◼   ► And so that's a win too.

01:03:22 ◼   ► So I'm very tentatively optimistic about this.

01:03:25 ◼   ► - Well and the other thing that people,

01:03:27 ◼   ► that workflow users I think should find somewhat comforting

01:03:31 ◼   ► is that most of the app, it's not doing things

01:03:34 ◼   ► that only these developers and only this app could do.

01:03:38 ◼   ► It's doing things that are possible for anyone else

01:03:41 ◼   ► to step in and recreate with a new app.

01:03:44 ◼   ► I don't say this to insult the app

01:03:46 ◼   ► or to say that it was easy to make,

01:03:48 ◼   ► but that it is a combination of things

01:03:51 ◼   ► that each one of which is fairly easy,

01:03:53 ◼   ► and so, which like most apps, honestly,

01:03:56 ◼   ► but the point is like if workflow disappears,

01:04:01 ◼   ► if it shuts down or it is made to suck

01:04:04 ◼   ► in a way that people find intolerable,

01:04:07 ◼   ► there will be a new one.

01:04:08 ◼   ► Someone else will make a new one.

01:04:09 ◼   ► It might take a few months,

01:04:11 ◼   ► but someone else will make a new one,

01:04:12 ◼   ► 'cause there's clearly a market demand for it,

01:04:15 ◼   ► and these are high-end technical and very devoted users,

01:04:20 ◼   ► if workflow disappears, there's going to immediately be

01:04:24 ◼   ► a not massive, but very passionate and very desperate market

01:04:29 ◼   ► who would probably pay like 10, 15, 20 bucks

01:04:32 ◼   ► for an iOS app to replace it.

01:04:34 ◼   ► So I wouldn't worry too much about that

01:04:37 ◼   ► unless Apple actually starts prohibiting apps

01:04:39 ◼   ► that are like this, which would be possible.

01:04:41 ◼   ► That is certainly a risk.

01:04:43 ◼   ► I wouldn't say it's incredibly likely,

01:04:45 ◼   ► but it's certainly a risk.

01:04:46 ◼   ► But anyway, basically workflow people,

01:04:50 ◼   ► there might be some disruption.

01:04:53 ◼   ► And I don't mean that in the tech guy sense.

01:04:55 ◼   ► I mean that in the literal meaning of the word.

01:04:58 ◼   ► There might be some disruption to your workflows.

01:05:01 ◼   ► I'm sorry, but, God, this is a terrible phrase

01:05:04 ◼   ► in this market.

01:05:06 ◼   ► But I think in the long run you'll be okay.

01:05:08 ◼   ► - So we brought up TestFlight already,

01:05:10 ◼   ► which is I think one of the most,

01:05:14 ◼   ► The best example of an application that was bought and content didn't even change the

01:05:18 ◼   ► icon did they?

01:05:19 ◼   ► Like TestFlight continues to be called TestFlight as a separate application and Apple uses it

01:05:26 ◼   ► for the purpose the TestFlight was created.

01:05:28 ◼   ► So it's like it survived the acquisition, right?

01:05:31 ◼   ► And then of course your applications that totally go away or become free and disappear.

01:05:35 ◼   ► Serendi Colville just pointed out on Twitter that Siri, Siri was an independent company

01:05:38 ◼   ► about the people, you know, like same thing.

01:05:41 ◼   ► They had an application on the store and it went free when it got bought back in 2010.

01:05:44 ◼   ► eventually it got rolled into the OS. So that's another possibility for this is that, you know,

01:05:48 ◼   ► we hope that this what this means is that Apple wants to make automation better on iOS. Like it's

01:05:54 ◼   ► that seems clear, like why, you know, in some fashion, whether you're just gonna have these

01:05:57 ◼   ► people do a new thing or you're gonna incorporate that, but you could have workflow appearing as an

01:06:01 ◼   ► Apple application with a different icon, perhaps bundled with the OS, perhaps free downloadable,

01:06:07 ◼   ► you know, as an Apple branded thing until the big new we have big improvements automation come in

01:06:15 ◼   ► iOS 12 or something. So it could be the application like becomes part of the OS in terms of

01:06:22 ◼   ► it's still called workflow, it still more or less works the same, maybe gets a new coat of paint,

01:06:28 ◼   ► and while that sits there doing its thing, those people who made that application are working on

01:06:34 ◼   ► the next big thing in terms of automating workflows, maybe incorporate, maybe, you know,

01:06:39 ◼   ► working in conjunction with whatever possible multitasking improvements that may be coming

01:06:44 ◼   ► into iOS that we'll see this summer or whatever. So there are a lot of possibilities and I see all

01:06:48 ◼   ► of them point towards, to me anyway, automation becoming better on the Mac. But it's really,

01:06:54 ◼   ► especially with the portability, like will my workflows port over to the new Apple one? Will

01:06:58 ◼   ► my workflows carry over to the new world of automation that's going to happen in iOS 12?

01:07:03 ◼   ► Who knows but I think I think these are going in the right direction even though it might be a little painful short-term

01:07:07 ◼   ► Did you mean iOS there? You said the Mac? Yeah, I know I got Mac on the brain

01:07:11 ◼   ► Yep, you know just replace what I said, but the words, you know that I meant

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01:09:11 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:09:15 ◼   ► - All right, so there was yesterday,

01:09:17 ◼   ► and we've made several references to this already

01:09:20 ◼   ► in this episode, yesterday there was an announcement

01:09:24 ◼   ► There are a series of announcements of new Apple products,

01:09:27 ◼   ► and so I'm gonna try to run through

01:09:29 ◼   ► just a very high level each of them,

01:09:30 ◼   ► and then we'll step in and do a deeper dive

01:09:32 ◼   ► through each of them after that.

01:09:33 ◼   ► So there's now a red iPhone 7.

01:09:35 ◼   ► It is product red, which means some subset of this money

01:09:40 ◼   ► is donated towards AIDS research, et cetera, et cetera.

01:09:44 ◼   ► - Except in China?

01:09:45 ◼   ► - Except in China, which we'll get to in a minute.

01:09:47 ◼   ► - Well, I think they actually got clarification on that.

01:09:49 ◼   ► I think Cook gave some statement to somebody somewhere

01:09:52 ◼   ► saying that actually, yes, a portion of the proceeds

01:09:54 ◼   ► also being donated from China sales.

01:09:56 ◼   ► I think it just isn't branded as such.

01:09:58 ◼   ► - Oh, interesting, that makes you feel a little better.

01:10:00 ◼   ► There's a new, there are a couple of new iPhone SE

01:10:03 ◼   ► storage sizes, as far as anyone can tell,

01:10:05 ◼   ► the internals are otherwise identical,

01:10:08 ◼   ► but the SE no longer has the 16 gig option,

01:10:11 ◼   ► which means that there are no more 16 gig iOS devices.

01:10:15 ◼   ► John Siracusa, how happy are you right now?

01:10:17 ◼   ► - I should have looked up the timelines for this,

01:10:20 ◼   ► like how long do we have to wait

01:10:21 ◼   ► from the first introduction of 16 gig

01:10:23 ◼   ► to it disappearing. It's taken long enough, but I'm glad it's happened. Although, Apple

01:10:28 ◼   ► always manages to frustrate me with the sizes because they change it now, what is the SD?

01:10:33 ◼   ► Comes in 32 and 128. So it's like, boy, 64 seems like the perfect size, but nope, nope.

01:10:38 ◼   ► You got to pick 32, which at this point it doesn't feel as small as 16, obviously. Like

01:10:42 ◼   ► 32 is great, right? It's huge. You know, kudos to getting rid of the 16 gigabyte finally.

01:10:48 ◼   ► But for me personally, like I'd be like, oh, 64, if I was recommending it for somebody

01:10:53 ◼   ► say well 32 will be fine right and 128 is probably too much 64 would be great

01:10:57 ◼   ► but now they just skip that size so I mean that's that's part of this right

01:11:01 ◼   ► like they want you to step up they want you to pay the premium that you pay for

01:11:04 ◼   ► the larger size but I'm glad that 32 is no longer ridiculously painfully way too

01:11:09 ◼   ► small so thank goodness. All right there's a new 9.7 inch iPad everything

01:11:16 ◼   ► that's old is new again we've gone from iPad to iPad 2 or something like that I

01:11:22 ◼   ► I forget the timeline, but it's ridiculous.

01:11:23 ◼   ► iPad with Retina display to iPad Air

01:11:26 ◼   ► and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but anyway.

01:11:28 ◼   ► - You forgot iPad 4th generation and iPad Air 2.

01:11:31 ◼   ► So this, the like 7th iPad,

01:11:33 ◼   ► is called the iPad 5th generation.

01:11:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, remember the new iPad?

01:11:38 ◼   ► - Yes, that was the original name for the iPad 3.

01:11:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're just called the new iPad, yeah.

01:11:43 ◼   ► Anyway, this new iPad is the basic spec bump and price drop,

01:11:48 ◼   ► which would be boring, I think,

01:11:50 ◼   ► if it wasn't seemingly so rare these days,

01:11:53 ◼   ► because you either get a spec bump with a price increase,

01:11:57 ◼   ► or something just lingers on,

01:11:59 ◼   ► but this is like the old style.

01:12:00 ◼   ► It's like, we make it faster

01:12:01 ◼   ► 'cause new stuff is available,

01:12:03 ◼   ► and it's like the middle of the road product,

01:12:05 ◼   ► so we can actually make it a little bit cheaper

01:12:07 ◼   ► because there's just not much in there,

01:12:09 ◼   ► and it's not getting the top of the top of the line

01:12:11 ◼   ► system on a chip, it's getting a better one.

01:12:14 ◼   ► So I think this 9.7 inch iPad has become more attractive

01:12:19 ◼   ► to people who would otherwise buy, you know, who are shopping for a full-size iPad but

01:12:25 ◼   ► don't need an iPad Pro, especially the Education because they've brought it down below the

01:12:29 ◼   ► magic $300 mark. So it's $299 for Education buyers, and it's thicker than the one that

01:12:37 ◼   ► it replaces. Presumably it's got a little bit more battery. The system on a chip is

01:12:41 ◼   ► faster but not as fast as it could be. So it looks like a good middle-of-the-road big

01:12:46 ◼   ► iPad.

01:12:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, so when this was first announced,

01:12:49 ◼   ► I was kind of puzzled, I'm like, you know,

01:12:50 ◼   ► that's kind of weak, but if for some reason

01:12:53 ◼   ► I had mis-parced the price in my head as 429,

01:12:58 ◼   ► it's actually 329, and that's actually,

01:13:01 ◼   ► that's a bigger deal on the price point

01:13:03 ◼   ► than I originally thought, and it's, you know,

01:13:05 ◼   ► as we get more detail on it, it seems like, you know,

01:13:09 ◼   ► it's kind of arguable whether it's like a spec-bumped Air 2

01:13:14 ◼   ► or whether it's more of a cut down 9.7 Pro,

01:13:17 ◼   ► it's kind of in the middle really,

01:13:19 ◼   ► with some new ways to cut the price down.

01:13:23 ◼   ► It only has the two speakers, like the older iPads.

01:13:28 ◼   ► It does not have the laminated screen.

01:13:32 ◼   ► When the Pros came out, they came with this really nice,

01:13:37 ◼   ► beautiful laminated screen where there's a smaller

01:13:40 ◼   ► or basically zero screen gap between the glass

01:13:43 ◼   ► on the screen, and all the, you know,

01:13:45 ◼   ► the iPhone did this a couple versions back too,

01:13:48 ◼   ► and the iPad finally did it, I think with the 9.7 Pro,

01:13:51 ◼   ► or if not the Air 2, and anyway,

01:13:53 ◼   ► so this one has the old style screen

01:13:54 ◼   ► where there's like that gap there,

01:13:55 ◼   ► like it's kind of a visible gap

01:13:58 ◼   ► between the glass and the screen.

01:13:59 ◼   ► So there's things like that where it's cut down,

01:14:01 ◼   ► and it lacks all the Pro, you know,

01:14:04 ◼   ► the quote iPad Pro feature,

01:14:06 ◼   ► so it does not have pencil support,

01:14:07 ◼   ► it doesn't have a smart connector,

01:14:09 ◼   ► but for a lot of iPad buyers,

01:14:12 ◼   ► that's pretty great.

01:14:14 ◼   ► For 329, it's an amazing value

01:14:18 ◼   ► compared to the rest of the lineup.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Whether you think it's an amazing value

01:14:21 ◼   ► compared to other tablets like from Amazon

01:14:24 ◼   ► or other Android weirdos, that's up to you.

01:14:27 ◼   ► It probably isn't, but oh well, I don't think Apple cares.

01:14:30 ◼   ► But compared to other iPads,

01:14:32 ◼   ► it's a fantastic value for the money

01:14:34 ◼   ► and as long as you don't need any of those pro features.

01:14:37 ◼   ► But I think if you're willing to drop 160 bucks

01:14:40 ◼   ► on a keyboard, you probably aren't that price sensitive

01:14:43 ◼   ► about the purchase price of the initial iPad.

01:14:46 ◼   ► It's obviously being targeted strongly

01:14:50 ◼   ► at educational buyers, but I think it'll also

01:14:52 ◼   ► just be a really good entry level iPad.

01:14:54 ◼   ► I think that's going to be, you know,

01:14:56 ◼   ► they're probably gonna sell a lot of these things.

01:14:58 ◼   ► Just like, and the fact that it has fairly modern internals

01:15:03 ◼   ► is really nice from a user perspective,

01:15:06 ◼   ► from a developer perspective, it's really, really nice.

01:15:08 ◼   ► I mean, to me, the, oh, and also I wanted to point out,

01:15:11 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett wrote a wonderful article on 512 pixels

01:15:15 ◼   ► citing the interesting marketing copy differences

01:15:19 ◼   ► between the way Apple brands this new, cheaper iPad

01:15:22 ◼   ► versus the way they brand the 9.7 Pro,

01:15:24 ◼   ► and this new, cheap one is all about fun.

01:15:27 ◼   ► It's like, you know, casual fun and games,

01:15:29 ◼   ► and the Pro's like, this is your new supercomputer.

01:15:31 ◼   ► It's like totally different marketing guidelines,

01:15:34 ◼   ► but I think that makes sense for how they're targeting it.

01:15:37 ◼   ► The only major question I have about it is,

01:15:40 ◼   ► it kinda leaves the iPad Mini in a weird spot.

01:15:44 ◼   ► Because they also discontinued the old Mini,

01:15:47 ◼   ► so now there's only one iPad Mini available.

01:15:49 ◼   ► It's more expensive than this.

01:15:51 ◼   ► It's the $400 Mini 4, 128 gig.

01:15:56 ◼   ► And so this to me kinda looks like

01:16:00 ◼   ► this is their gradual way of maybe killing the Mini,

01:16:03 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:16:04 ◼   ► But this new 9.7 is now, I think,

01:16:09 ◼   ► better than that Mini in most ways.

01:16:12 ◼   ► And this is clearly their new entry level iPad.

01:16:17 ◼   ► So I don't think the Mini has a lot of places

01:16:20 ◼   ► to go anymore, but I don't know.

01:16:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've never been a big fan of the Mini,

01:16:24 ◼   ► and if it's not gonna be cheaper than this,

01:16:25 ◼   ► then I don't know why anyone would be into it

01:16:29 ◼   ► unless they really love that size.

01:16:30 ◼   ► - I mean, in all fairness, they do still sell the iPod Touch.

01:16:33 ◼   ► I know I was going to say, by the way, there is actually one 16 gigabyte model at the iPod

01:16:37 ◼   ► Touch, which everyone forgets exists, is still available in 16 gigs.

01:16:40 ◼   ► Even Apple forgets it exists.

01:16:42 ◼   ► It almost doesn't count.

01:16:43 ◼   ► But hey, you know what?

01:16:44 ◼   ► You can get the iPod Touch and you can get it in 16, 32, 64, and 128.

01:16:48 ◼   ► No gaps, no 256 model, but whatever.

01:16:52 ◼   ► So for this iPad, this I think is what one of the things that we would, we on the show

01:16:58 ◼   ► at least, would probably love it if Apple did with the laptop or desktop line, which

01:17:02 ◼   ► is take a middle of the road model and make it cheaper and thicker.

01:17:08 ◼   ► Like bring the price down, you know, make something that is, you know, make it more

01:17:14 ◼   ► powerful, bring the price down by sacrificing the nice to haves, the laminated screen, the

01:17:21 ◼   ► couple of millimeters of thickness, the little bit of extra weight in exchange for like in

01:17:27 ◼   ► this class, like do you need the fanciest most laminated screen?

01:17:30 ◼   ► Do you need true tone?

01:17:32 ◼   ► you just rather have a machine that is like a hundred bucks cheaper, but also pretty darn fast and sacrifice like a millimeter of

01:17:38 ◼   ► Thickness. Yes, like that's what a middle-of-the-road model should be

01:17:41 ◼   ► It makes the expensive one look like what am I getting for money? You're getting fancier crap, right? It is actually faster

01:17:48 ◼   ► It's nicer. It's it's it's got the laminated screen on it. It's got the smart connector or whatever

01:17:52 ◼   ► You see what you're paying for there

01:17:54 ◼   ► but it is a thing that gets bumped and doesn't just you know

01:17:57 ◼   ► It's not like the iPad 2 that stays the same and it's just like super crappy and you feel like you're getting a terrible model

01:18:01 ◼   ► And the fact that they made this thicker like I think that's great. That's exactly what we're looking for

01:18:05 ◼   ► please make those trade-offs in the middle models to make a

01:18:08 ◼   ► Machine that has better it gives people better value for the money

01:18:11 ◼   ► And so I'm encouraged with this and I think someone pointed out that the the iPad line is now

01:18:16 ◼   ► Much simplified over its previous thing now. We have two iPad pros one of which is a little creaky

01:18:20 ◼   ► We'll talk about later two iPad pros the big one in the small one and then you have two other iPads

01:18:25 ◼   ► Which are not pros the big one in the small one and it's weird that the mini is called like the iPad mini 4

01:18:30 ◼   ► And I agree that it's a weird product in it with a weird price and it maybe it will go away

01:18:34 ◼   ► Or maybe it itself will get bumped in the same way and that it will there will be a faster mini for

01:18:38 ◼   ► That is cheaper and that sacrifices. I don't know what you can sacrifice. What's left to sacrifice not on the mini. I don't know

01:18:44 ◼   ► but

01:18:46 ◼   ► Overall, I think this was a good announcement and especially especially for education. I think they need to drive it down farther

01:18:51 ◼   ► For that purposes like kind of like the iPad 2 was in the end of its life and it was just so

01:18:55 ◼   ► Incredibly behind the times that they could probably sell it to education for much less money

01:19:00 ◼   ► me, but anyway, thumbs up.

01:19:03 ◼   ► So continuing with the summary, and then we'll come back and talk about each one individually,

01:19:06 ◼   ► like I said, there are—

01:19:08 ◼   ► No, that's not happening. I was not on board with that plan.

01:19:12 ◼   ► I love you too.

01:19:13 ◼   ► But I did see—I did like the fact that we cruised through the red iPhone and the SE

01:19:18 ◼   ► with appropriate speed. We don't need to circle back to them. It's red. It looks

01:19:21 ◼   ► cool. It's nice.

01:19:22 ◼   ► Yeah, so I guess since we're talking about this now—sorry, Casey.

01:19:26 ◼   ► Oh my god.

01:19:29 ◼   ► You deserve this for all your follow-up complaints.

01:19:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, the red iPhone.

01:19:32 ◼   ► It's nice that it's product red.

01:19:34 ◼   ► This is, as you mentioned about the charitable donation

01:19:38 ◼   ► part of this, it is nice that they finally,

01:19:41 ◼   ► for the very first time, brought that

01:19:43 ◼   ► to their most profitable product, the iPhone.

01:19:46 ◼   ► Like I guess maybe back in the iPod days it might have been.

01:19:47 ◼   ► But anyway, it's been a while.

01:19:50 ◼   ► You've been able to get red stuff from Apple.

01:19:53 ◼   ► The red iPod Touch has been there for a while,

01:19:55 ◼   ► which by the way looks a lot like the new red iPhone.

01:19:58 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:20:00 ◼   ► The, you know, that you had like the product red watch bands

01:20:02 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

01:20:03 ◼   ► It's really nice to be able to finally get it on the iPhone.

01:20:06 ◼   ► I hope, you know, when, basically before the,

01:20:09 ◼   ► before we saw the 7 and there were some rumors

01:20:12 ◼   ► of new colors, I believe I made some comment back then

01:20:14 ◼   ► about how like, I would love for them to replace

01:20:17 ◼   ► all of the like old metal colors,

01:20:19 ◼   ► like the silver, space gray, gold, rose gold.

01:20:23 ◼   ► I would like, you know, those all, I think,

01:20:24 ◼   ► look stale to me now.

01:20:25 ◼   ► Like all four of those I would say look fairly overdone

01:20:29 ◼   ► and dated these days on most of the products,

01:20:31 ◼   ► especially the iPhone.

01:20:33 ◼   ► So to have new colors is very, very welcome.

01:20:36 ◼   ► I was, you know, this, and I think this phone looks great.

01:20:39 ◼   ► I do think it looks a little bit like the old iPod Touch

01:20:42 ◼   ► and a little to an uncomfortable degree.

01:20:44 ◼   ► And I agree with Mike's complaint that it should

01:20:48 ◼   ► definitely have a red circle around the touch ID button

01:20:51 ◼   ► because all the other phones have metal color

01:20:53 ◼   ► matching circles.

01:20:54 ◼   ► So that also have a black front. I do not like white fronted phones

01:20:58 ◼   ► I don't like white fronts of the things but a lot of people do so like

01:21:03 ◼   ► If they're not gonna make it in two colors like hey

01:21:06 ◼   ► Here's a red back and a black front and a red black and a white front like they have to pick one of them and it's

01:21:10 ◼   ► Just a personal taste thing. Honestly. I think the white front looks really good

01:21:13 ◼   ► I would never want to own it for the reasons

01:21:15 ◼   ► I've talked about before by putting some a reflective white surface next to the screen just makes your screen look dingier because it can never

01:21:20 ◼   ► Compare to the sun shining off a white thing

01:21:22 ◼   ► Like I think it's a I don't want it and but it's totally personal preference

01:21:25 ◼   ► I think it looks I think it looks really it looks like a Christmas phone looks like a piece of candy

01:21:29 ◼   ► People say it in like a bad way like oh this looks like the iPod touches the iPod touches look cool

01:21:34 ◼   ► I and you know and because this is entirely a fashion thing and a taste thing

01:21:39 ◼   ► I I have no complaints about the white front despite the fact that I would never ever ever buy one because

01:21:44 ◼   ► You know, they they make phones that some people are gonna like how it looks

01:21:48 ◼   ► That's why they make them in different colors the whole point of different colors

01:21:50 ◼   ► you don't like this color, pick a different color.

01:21:52 ◼   ► And I love the fact that now there is a color

01:21:54 ◼   ► that is not silver, black, or some tint thereof.

01:21:58 ◼   ► Like it is a bold color for a phone.

01:22:00 ◼   ► And the last time we saw that was like the 5C, I guess.

01:22:02 ◼   ► Which I thought were also really fun.

01:22:03 ◼   ► - Well, I would say jet black was a bold color

01:22:07 ◼   ► of that scale.

01:22:08 ◼   ► Like it wasn't expected.

01:22:09 ◼   ► - You can get it any bold color as long as it's black.

01:22:11 ◼   ► - Right, yeah.

01:22:12 ◼   ► No, like it wasn't like something that I would've predicted

01:22:15 ◼   ► or expected how good it ended up being.

01:22:17 ◼   ► but I would say jet black is one of those

01:22:20 ◼   ► like game changer colors that really did feel new

01:22:23 ◼   ► and awesome.

01:22:25 ◼   ► That being said, I do wish this was like jet red,

01:22:28 ◼   ► like I wish it had the finish of the jet black,

01:22:30 ◼   ► like the tacky, 'cause it would increase grip

01:22:32 ◼   ► and everything and I think it might look

01:22:35 ◼   ► a little bit more modern, 'cause again, I do think--

01:22:37 ◼   ► - It would look more like the 5C,

01:22:38 ◼   ► which was also very glossy and colored.

01:22:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, but like more saturated and newer

01:22:43 ◼   ► and thinner and everything else.

01:22:45 ◼   ► I think that would help it not look like an old iPod Touch,

01:22:47 ◼   ► But I do think this is overall a very nice looking phone.

01:22:50 ◼   ► The timing is interesting of it being mid-cycle.

01:22:55 ◼   ► This is about when they launched the SE last year, right?

01:22:59 ◼   ► The cynical take on this is this is a nice way

01:23:03 ◼   ► for them to boost sales in a very slow,

01:23:05 ◼   ► traditional recorder.

01:23:06 ◼   ► It's a nice way for them to boost sales

01:23:08 ◼   ► on their most profitable product line.

01:23:11 ◼   ► - I wish they did this more often.

01:23:12 ◼   ► Who would complain if they treated the phone back

01:23:14 ◼   ► like watch bands?

01:23:15 ◼   ► It's like just throughout the year,

01:23:16 ◼   ► every couple months came out with different colors of phones because it gives them the

01:23:22 ◼   ► freedom to have lots of different ideas and honestly it does get people more excited because

01:23:25 ◼   ► phones are very much faster than accessories. And if you can come out with different colors

01:23:29 ◼   ► in different parts of the year, people will be like, "It does renew your interest in getting

01:23:33 ◼   ► the phones." Especially if you see the phones and you're like, "I don't know if I need a

01:23:36 ◼   ► new phone. I'm not sure I like all these new colors." Especially if they're the same as

01:23:39 ◼   ► last year where it's like gold, rose gold, and maybe you don't like the jet black or

01:23:43 ◼   ► whatever. If you knew you could wait three months and there would be like, you know,

01:23:46 ◼   ► a teal one or a purple one or a yellow one, I mean, I still see 5Cs that are white and

01:23:50 ◼   ► I'm like, "That's a cool looking phone," right? You know, if it's fashion, and the

01:23:56 ◼   ► watches certainly are, and the phone is at this point too, by all means, do this as many

01:24:00 ◼   ► times as you want, Apple. I think it's great.

01:24:01 ◼   ► Yeah. Also, by the way, I think a jet white phone, like with the same finish but in white,

01:24:06 ◼   ► that would look amazing.

01:24:07 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:24:08 ◼   ► But, yeah, anyway.

01:24:09 ◼   ► How are you allowed to say that? And I'm sitting here quietly. Come on.

01:24:12 ◼   ► - You're thinking it's a jet white phone

01:24:13 ◼   ► with a black front on it though, I guess,

01:24:15 ◼   ► but I don't know if that's gonna happen.

01:24:16 ◼   ► - Well, I think that would look better.

01:24:18 ◼   ► I agree with you, I think the red with the white front,

01:24:20 ◼   ► I think that does look better,

01:24:21 ◼   ► even though I agree also that I wouldn't want

01:24:23 ◼   ► the white front, but I think a black back,

01:24:26 ◼   ► or I mean a white back, I think would only look good

01:24:28 ◼   ► with a black front.

01:24:30 ◼   ► Anyway. - Yeah, it's a

01:24:30 ◼   ► storm trooper phone. - Yeah, exactly.

01:24:32 ◼   ► Anyway. - I'm like Iron Man

01:24:34 ◼   ► and I want a white phone.

01:24:36 ◼   ► Oh my God, you're killing me.

01:24:37 ◼   ► - That's because it's in a pleasing shape,

01:24:39 ◼   ► so it does look good in white.

01:24:41 ◼   ► - Ooh. - Oh my God.

01:24:43 ◼   ► What do I do to deserve this?

01:24:44 ◼   ► I just try to keep you two in line.

01:24:45 ◼   ► - Is that to deserve it?

01:24:46 ◼   ► That's just the foundational theory of white cars.

01:24:49 ◼   ► Have we not gone over this?

01:24:50 ◼   ► - No, we have, we have.

01:24:51 ◼   ► - I think we started with this.

01:24:53 ◼   ► - I think we did.

01:24:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, so anyway, I hope, I hope,

01:24:57 ◼   ► I would just love to see more color

01:25:00 ◼   ► in Apple's line in general.

01:25:02 ◼   ► So I hope they keep this up.

01:25:04 ◼   ► You know, this is great.

01:25:06 ◼   ► I don't really, I'm not gonna go trade in my,

01:25:09 ◼   ► still perfectly fine working iPhone 7

01:25:12 ◼   ► that's halfway through its cycle for this.

01:25:15 ◼   ► But if I were buying new today,

01:25:16 ◼   ► I'd seriously consider it.

01:25:18 ◼   ► Although ultimately I still want the grip

01:25:20 ◼   ► of the jet black finish.

01:25:21 ◼   ► So I would probably still decide against it.

01:25:23 ◼   ► But give me jet red and jet white and we'll talk.

01:25:27 ◼   ► But anyway, I hope this fall,

01:25:29 ◼   ► when presumably new iPhones come out again,

01:25:32 ◼   ► although it's hard to say with Apple

01:25:34 ◼   ► when things will come out.

01:25:34 ◼   ► But presumably this fall,

01:25:37 ◼   ► I hope they continue with, even with the new products,

01:25:41 ◼   ► to offer cool new colors.

01:25:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would agree with that.

01:25:44 ◼   ► I really like the look of this.

01:25:45 ◼   ► I really do wish it was a black front.

01:25:48 ◼   ► There's something to be said for white

01:25:50 ◼   ► perhaps being a better match,

01:25:51 ◼   ► but the back of this does look awesome.

01:25:55 ◼   ► And they've also released a couple of new colors

01:25:59 ◼   ► for iPhone cases, and I believe it was Sapphire,

01:26:02 ◼   ► on screen anyway, looked really nice.

01:26:04 ◼   ► I haven't seen it in person.

01:26:05 ◼   ► And they've also released a bunch of new watch bands,

01:26:08 ◼   ► which largely match the case colors.

01:26:11 ◼   ► They've also started selling Nike+ bands separately,

01:26:15 ◼   ► which if you want something that is, for the most part,

01:26:19 ◼   ► visually extremely loud, power to you, I guess,

01:26:22 ◼   ► and now you can buy the band.

01:26:24 ◼   ► - As a sport band, having all those holes in it

01:26:26 ◼   ► is really nice for ventilation,

01:26:27 ◼   ► 'cause the regular sport band is pretty sweaty,

01:26:29 ◼   ► 'cause it just, you know, that solid surface

01:26:31 ◼   ► that does not breathe at all.

01:26:32 ◼   ► So the Nike bands actually are nicer

01:26:35 ◼   ► for sport use for any kind of, you know,

01:26:37 ◼   ► if you're gonna be hot and sweaty,

01:26:40 ◼   ► they're way nicer because they have those holes.

01:26:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, my wife picked that when she bought her watch.

01:26:43 ◼   ► She bought the Nike Plus one,

01:26:44 ◼   ► and I think in part because of the,

01:26:46 ◼   ► she didn't get like the neon one, but the holes,

01:26:48 ◼   ► and she likes it.

01:26:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, like, you know, it does look like

01:26:51 ◼   ► some kind of a crazy alien creature,

01:26:53 ◼   ► but it is highly functional.

01:26:55 ◼   ► But anyway, one more thing before we get off the phone,

01:26:58 ◼   ► the red phone, one angle I think might be interesting

01:27:01 ◼   ► to consider, or I guess we'll see,

01:27:03 ◼   ► is like, so there's two cynical takes,

01:27:06 ◼   ► and there's one I mentioned to boost sales

01:27:08 ◼   ► in a slow quarter.

01:27:09 ◼   ► The second is, will they release a product-read phone

01:27:14 ◼   ► with the charitable donation portion of its profits

01:27:17 ◼   ► during the peak season and the holidays?

01:27:19 ◼   ► Like, will they release it on day one, basically,

01:27:22 ◼   ► for the next phone?

01:27:24 ◼   ► Because that could cost them more money in donations.

01:27:27 ◼   ► That's the kind of thing that I hope they would say,

01:27:29 ◼   ► you know what, it's worth it.

01:27:30 ◼   ► And knowing Tim Cook, I think they probably would,

01:27:32 ◼   ► You know, Tim Cook, he cares a lot about like,

01:27:36 ◼   ► charitable causes and things that are good for the world

01:27:39 ◼   ► and for people's health and everything else.

01:27:40 ◼   ► So I can see him saying, you know what,

01:27:43 ◼   ► screw it, we'll take the hit.

01:27:44 ◼   ► But it's so much money at that scale during the peak quarter

01:27:48 ◼   ► that it might be a tricky balance.

01:27:51 ◼   ► - Well it did, back in the day,

01:27:53 ◼   ► they did introduce several iPods at the time

01:27:56 ◼   ► when the iPod was still a very important product,

01:27:58 ◼   ► that when a new line came out,

01:27:59 ◼   ► it would come with the Product Red one,

01:28:01 ◼   ► there was no delay like what you're talking about here are the new iPod Nanos and you

01:28:04 ◼   ► can get these five colors plus product red that happened routinely I know because my

01:28:07 ◼   ► wife bought a lot of the red ones because they were cool and they were red so I totally

01:28:11 ◼   ► think they'll do it I think it's just a question of like manufacturing ramps and how many different

01:28:17 ◼   ► colors they can handle and being able to deal with multiple skews and the color variant

01:28:22 ◼   ► like we always have problems with that like I never know how well they try to predict

01:28:25 ◼   ► what the color mix will be they're always off by a little bit and at the scales they

01:28:28 ◼   ► do it, it makes people frustrated, they gotta like look for a jet black one or remember

01:28:32 ◼   ► when people couldn't find the gold phones for the very first gold one. It's difficult

01:28:36 ◼   ► so I feel like if they don't do it, it will mostly be for inventory control reasons.

01:28:41 ◼   ► Clips for iOS. A forthcoming app that will, how are they pitching this? It will basically

01:28:48 ◼   ► let you make little videos and I think it's apple.com/clips. We'll have a link in the

01:28:55 ◼   ► show notes.

01:28:56 ◼   ► It's like Snapchat for olds.

01:28:57 ◼   ► But it's not like Snapchat.

01:28:59 ◼   ► No, I know.

01:29:00 ◼   ► This, to many people who have heard from Apple about this topic, this appears to be surprisingly

01:29:07 ◼   ► to, you know, we were all looking at the announcements yesterday, surprisingly, perhaps the most

01:29:11 ◼   ► important announcement from Apple's perspective of all the things we just listed, even though

01:29:15 ◼   ► it is software and not hardware, and even though it seems like, great, you made an app

01:29:20 ◼   ► that we can make videos with.

01:29:23 ◼   ► Unlike Snapchat and Instagram and all these other applications that people use to take

01:29:26 ◼   ► videos of themselves and put words over those videos and stick stickers on their faces and

01:29:30 ◼   ► do all the other stuff that they do. This is not a Ping version 2.0. This is not an

01:29:36 ◼   ► Apple social network. This is not a way for you to share videos for people. This is a

01:29:40 ◼   ► video production tool. This is a way for you to make impressive looking videos that you

01:29:45 ◼   ► then shove onto all those social networks run by companies that are not Apple. And it's

01:29:50 ◼   ► leveraging Apple's strengths. We know how to make nice looking video transition effects.

01:29:55 ◼   ► We know how to take video and incorporate other elements into video.

01:29:58 ◼   ► We know how to let you somehow edit video with your fingers on this tiny little phone

01:30:02 ◼   ► screen.

01:30:03 ◼   ► We can help you in the same way that iMovie helped you make like family movies that looked

01:30:07 ◼   ► 100 times better than the family movies that were cut together and edited on someone's

01:30:13 ◼   ► mini DV camcorder, like literally on the camcorder.

01:30:16 ◼   ► Like when you use your Mac to do it, you got these amazing transitions and effects and

01:30:19 ◼   ► things that were previously only available on professional software.

01:30:21 ◼   ► And you're like, you made that yourself, even if you just use one of the stinking templates

01:30:24 ◼   ► or Keynote made you let people make tasteful presentations

01:30:27 ◼   ► that didn't look like they were made in PowerPoint

01:30:29 ◼   ► because they weren't,

01:30:30 ◼   ► like just by providing good tools and templates.

01:30:32 ◼   ► That's what this seems to be,

01:30:34 ◼   ► a very well done application for video production

01:30:38 ◼   ► whose output is targeting all those services

01:30:41 ◼   ► that people use to share video of themselves.

01:30:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it looks really good.

01:30:45 ◼   ► This is trying to tie together

01:30:50 ◼   ► like three or four different worlds,

01:30:52 ◼   ► none of which I really understand

01:30:54 ◼   ► or participated in very much.

01:30:55 ◼   ► So it's hard for me to have a smart take on how it will do.

01:30:59 ◼   ► But how it looks on this page, it looks good,

01:31:01 ◼   ► and I'm gonna play with it.

01:31:02 ◼   ► - You do participate in it because I watch videos of you

01:31:05 ◼   ► on these services, often taken by your wife.

01:31:08 ◼   ► I mean, you do Periscope a lot.

01:31:09 ◼   ► That is one of these services.

01:31:11 ◼   ► I know it's not like a pre-produced thing

01:31:12 ◼   ► where you put stuff on, but it is like,

01:31:14 ◼   ► "Hey, I wanna take some spur-of-the-moment video

01:31:18 ◼   ► "that immediately gets shared with people

01:31:19 ◼   ► "onto a social network type of thing."

01:31:21 ◼   ► And it is perhaps the least invasive,

01:31:24 ◼   ► where they're not putting little stickers over your head

01:31:26 ◼   ► or writing words on the screen.

01:31:27 ◼   ► But for Instagram, I follow people

01:31:30 ◼   ► who post daily Instagram stories or whatever they're called,

01:31:33 ◼   ► where it's just a series of small clips

01:31:35 ◼   ► with some text occasionally over it or some audio.

01:31:38 ◼   ► And I gotta tell you, of all those things I look at,

01:31:40 ◼   ► they look pretty rough.

01:31:41 ◼   ► And if someone could use an--

01:31:43 ◼   ► it's a question of, do people care enough about the quality

01:31:45 ◼   ► to go into an external app and hit the Share button

01:31:48 ◼   ► and share to Instagram versus doing it

01:31:49 ◼   ► from within the Instagram app.

01:31:51 ◼   ► But this should be Apple's strength in the same way

01:31:54 ◼   ► that iMovie demonstrated Apple's strength,

01:31:58 ◼   ► and back in the day, iPhoto used to, less now.

01:32:01 ◼   ► They make good software for dealing with media,

01:32:04 ◼   ► and they're able to do it even on the phone

01:32:08 ◼   ► to leverage all the hardware they have there that makes it

01:32:10 ◼   ► like a little magical video production studio to make

01:32:13 ◼   ► clever-- and one of the things they were saying

01:32:15 ◼   ► that was clever is it does face recognition,

01:32:17 ◼   ► to know who's in the video,

01:32:18 ◼   ► matches it up with your contact photos to say,

01:32:20 ◼   ► "Oh, it looks like in this video are these three people.

01:32:22 ◼   ► If you wanna share it with them, here are their faces."

01:32:25 ◼   ► It does dictation for the text

01:32:26 ◼   ► so you don't have to type it in.

01:32:28 ◼   ► And supposedly like when you dictate the text,

01:32:30 ◼   ► if you dictate the text with a certain cadence,

01:32:32 ◼   ► it will appear on the screen with that cadence.

01:32:35 ◼   ► So you can, basically by speaking in a certain manner,

01:32:39 ◼   ► make text appear in a way that emphasizes

01:32:42 ◼   ► the point of your video,

01:32:43 ◼   ► as opposed to trying to time that

01:32:44 ◼   ► with like a bunch of curves,

01:32:45 ◼   ► you know, and like lots and lots of clever touches

01:32:48 ◼   ► to let regular people do things

01:32:50 ◼   ► that are much more interesting.

01:32:51 ◼   ► And I think it will probably create a middle tier class

01:32:55 ◼   ► of produced videos in the same way that they were like

01:32:58 ◼   ► professional people producing Vines,

01:33:00 ◼   ► presumably using like, I don't know if I even let you

01:33:02 ◼   ► do this, but something, you know,

01:33:03 ◼   ► for other types of services where it's clear

01:33:06 ◼   ► that there is a group of people using tools

01:33:08 ◼   ► way more sophisticated than are available

01:33:09 ◼   ► on the social services native app

01:33:12 ◼   ► to nevertheless share that video on that app.

01:33:14 ◼   ► So like they would make a video like in Final Cut basically with a bunch of cool effects and everything and trim it down and share

01:33:19 ◼   ► it on a social network in the same way that I take pictures with my fancy camera and put them in Instagram and some people get

01:33:23 ◼   ► Cranky because like it's only supposed to be pictures you take with your phone. Like that's not how I'm using Instagram

01:33:27 ◼   ► I've imagined there are people who are sharing things through social services that are made with very complicated tools

01:33:34 ◼   ► But not everyone can do that

01:33:35 ◼   ► So this is like an in-between thing you have you could use the built-in tools for the sharing services and make an okay video

01:33:41 ◼   ► You can go one step back, which is just a separate application that's also on your phone

01:33:44 ◼   ► and still pretty darn easy to use, but you'll get a nicer result.

01:33:47 ◼   ► And then the final one is, you know, use Final Cut Pro to spend a week making this amazing

01:33:51 ◼   ► video that you hope will go viral and, you know, do it that way.

01:33:57 ◼   ► There's a video on the apple.com/clips and the section is called "Say It, See It" and

01:34:03 ◼   ► there's a little video of a gentleman who is saying how to tie a bow tie and you see

01:34:07 ◼   ► the words pop on screen just like you were describing, Jon.

01:34:09 ◼   ► It looks very clever. I don't I have a snapchat account. I only ever use it to send or receive pictures

01:34:16 ◼   ► With Erin and Declan so oftentimes when he wakes up from nap

01:34:20 ◼   ► She'll go in there and like take a goofy picture with one of the goofy filters

01:34:23 ◼   ► And I gotta say it is actually quite delightful

01:34:25 ◼   ► I don't have the faintest idea how to use the actual features of snapchat that you're supposed to be using because I'm old

01:34:31 ◼   ► I do like Instagram stories

01:34:33 ◼   ► I don't find myself doing it very often because my day is usually pretty boring

01:34:38 ◼   ► But I think they're super cool, and I like that the features they've added and so this to me

01:34:43 ◼   ► I think Marco I know you were being snarky, but I think you're right to some degree to a small degree

01:34:48 ◼   ► I do think this is snapchat for old people, but I'm really amped about this

01:34:52 ◼   ► I think this is gonna be super neat to play with and it may be that I play with it twice and ever use it

01:34:55 ◼   ► Again, but I really think this is Apple firing on all cylinders in theory anyway

01:35:02 ◼   ► We'll see when it when it's released, but it's embracing all the stuff. They're good at just like you guys said and ignoring the stuff

01:35:07 ◼   ► they're not. So rather than making another ping, they're just using this to create content

01:35:12 ◼   ► and then pushing it to the places where you want that content to be, which is awesome.

01:35:16 ◼   ► And a lot of really nice little touches on here, like the, "Oh, you have Aaron in this

01:35:20 ◼   ► video. Do you want to send it to her?" Like, this all sounds really, really cool, and I'm

01:35:24 ◼   ► really looking forward to playing with it. I'm not entirely sure why it was announced

01:35:28 ◼   ► today. Like, I'm not sure what that really buys them.

01:35:31 ◼   ► >> Because it's almost done? >> I guess, but like...

01:35:34 ◼   ► See, that's the thing though,

01:35:35 ◼   ► they did all these announcements

01:35:37 ◼   ► via this barrage of press releases,

01:35:40 ◼   ► but after these announcements were over,

01:35:42 ◼   ► and throughout the entire day yesterday

01:35:44 ◼   ► when they're getting all this press,

01:35:46 ◼   ► you still can't pre-order the red iPhone,

01:35:48 ◼   ► you still can't pre-order the new cheap iPad,

01:35:51 ◼   ► you can't download the Eclipse app,

01:35:54 ◼   ► or even, they didn't even do the App Store notify me thing

01:35:57 ◼   ► like they did for Mario Run.

01:35:59 ◼   ► There's nothing we can do about this.

01:36:01 ◼   ► We're interested now.

01:36:02 ◼   ► give us a way to turn that into something for you later,

01:36:05 ◼   ► Apple, but no, instead we just have to try to remember

01:36:09 ◼   ► about these things and then when they are available

01:36:11 ◼   ► in a week or three, then go get them then.

01:36:15 ◼   ► But why couldn't they do anything,

01:36:19 ◼   ► like why did they have to announce this yesterday

01:36:22 ◼   ► when none of this stuff was even ready to pre-order?

01:36:24 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:36:25 ◼   ► - They could be trying to space it out, you know?

01:36:27 ◼   ► Like they have other announcements they don't wanna

01:36:29 ◼   ► push it up against them.

01:36:31 ◼   ► I don't really, because I think the Apple line in this

01:36:34 ◼   ► is that they're not the type of products

01:36:38 ◼   ► that there's gonna be a mad rush for people to get.

01:36:42 ◼   ► Like it doesn't really matter when they tell you

01:36:43 ◼   ► about clips being a thing,