198: Puppy Game Boy


00:00:00   So can you explain something to me John or Casey but both of you are sports people compared to me?

00:00:04   Oh god, why are the highest end video games called triple-a games?

00:00:09   But in baseball the triple-a teams are kind of like the minor leagues

00:00:13   It's just the same. It's the same word used in two different contexts. Don't try to connect them

00:00:18   That's that's a terrible answer. That's not even an answer. That's the answer

00:00:22   It's like it's like, you know, like why do we park on the driveway and drive in the parkway? Whatever like it's it?

00:00:27   Yes, it's the same word and it's spelled the same way, so you've got three A's.

00:00:31   Why is it the people that come when you have a flat tire?

00:00:34   Why is that triple A?

00:00:35   It's just the same set of letters, but it's not the same thing.

00:00:38   Don't get confused about it.

00:00:41   At work this week, I am learning to use Scala, the programming language, and Akka, which

00:00:47   is—

00:00:48   How you're learning to pronounce it, too?

00:00:49   Is it "Scalla," "Scalla"?

00:00:50   I don't know.

00:00:51   I'm asking you.

00:00:52   You're the one learning it.

00:00:54   Everyone seems to be saying "Scalla."

00:00:55   I'm sure to a New Yorker, it's "Scalla."

00:00:57   - I always assumed it was scalah, like scaling, you know?

00:01:00   But I've literally never heard anybody ever mention it

00:01:04   in person until now.

00:01:05   - Yeah, this seems like definitely one of the first things

00:01:07   that you should learn about a language is how to say it.

00:01:11   - It's pronounced bezel, Jon.

00:01:12   Anyway, so the point is I'm learning Scala, Scala, Scala.

00:01:16   And it's weird.

00:01:19   It's super weird.

00:01:21   And I presume that neither of you two

00:01:23   have really touched it.

00:01:24   - The little bit I've seen makes it very obvious

00:01:27   that not only does it look weird,

00:01:29   but it seems like only weird people use it.

00:01:32   It's one of those esoteric languages like Erlang

00:01:34   that all the really out there programmers use,

00:01:37   but most people don't.

00:01:38   - Yeah, it's not as, I don't know,

00:01:41   esoteric as my understanding of say like Haskell is.

00:01:45   - Yeah, Haskell's a good example.

00:01:46   - But I've seen some go, and although it looks peculiar,

00:01:51   I feel like I can get the general gist of what's happening

00:01:54   I look in an arbitrary Go program, I feel like even before I could read Objective-C and,

00:02:02   you know, see through the matrix, if you will, I could at least understand vaguely what was

00:02:08   happening in Objective-C. And before I started to really understand Swift, it was very easy

00:02:12   to at least generally understand what was happening in a Swift app.

00:02:17   This crap is out of control, though.

00:02:19   And I think, you know how anyone who's ever written any C++ ever in their lives—

00:02:25   Is broken forever.

00:02:26   Well, that, and has this like tremendous utter fear of operator overloading?

00:02:32   My admittedly ignorant impression of Scala is that it's operator overloading and functional

00:02:37   programming gone crazy.

00:02:41   And so like, what was it that we were doing?

00:02:44   We were doing something that was not Scala itself.

00:02:47   I think it was something related to Aka, which is like a, I don't know, it's a weirdo networking

00:02:52   framework.

00:02:53   That's a terrible summary, but we'll just go with it.

00:02:55   And everything about this is weird.

00:02:56   Yeah, it's so weird.

00:02:57   Well, they, by overloading operators and doing weirdo functions and the way that you can

00:03:03   like, well, encourage functions and the way that you can like leave out crap and that's

00:03:08   valid Scala syntax, it's as though you have an entirely different language.

00:03:13   Like visually, it looks like an entirely different language, even though it's all completely

00:03:19   valid Scala because they went nuts with operator overloading and weirdo like shortcuts and

00:03:25   whatnot.

00:03:26   It is the most peculiar thing I've ever seen.

00:03:28   And beyond that, using IntelliJ as an IDE is a visual assault on my eyeballs.

00:03:34   Like it's a decent IDE, and it does a lot of things, and it's very powerful, but my

00:03:40   goodness it's hideous.

00:03:41   It's even worse than the shouty version of Visual Studio that said "File, Edit, View!"

00:03:46   You know, when it was when all the menus were all caps for some reason.

00:03:49   Wait, I didn't know about this one.

00:03:50   Was this like in DOS?

00:03:52   No, no, no, this is like 2010, 2012, something like that.

00:03:55   Why?

00:03:56   I forget exactly when it was, but you know the typical Windows menu, you know, the same

00:03:59   menu that you have on the Mac, but it's on each window in Windows.

00:04:02   Well, anyways, it was all caps for like one or two generations of Visual Studio for no

00:04:07   good reason.

00:04:08   So it wasn't "File, Edit, View," it was "File, Edit, View!"

00:04:11   It was like a wrestler shouting at you constantly.

00:04:13   - Wow. - Anyway.

00:04:14   So in summary, Scala is super duper weird

00:04:17   and I don't know what to make of it

00:04:19   and I don't think I like it.

00:04:21   And I can't tell if that's just because I'm ignorant

00:04:24   and I'm still learning it and I can't see the matrix,

00:04:28   if you will, or see through the matrix, I guess.

00:04:30   But man, is it weird.

00:04:31   And you know what, in summary,

00:04:33   I guess this is what being a Prol Programmer feels like.

00:04:36   - Oh, well, if you had been a Prol Programmer,

00:04:39   would have been introduced to all the concepts that you're encountering in the language that

00:04:44   you choose to call Scala, they wouldn't be alien to you. You'd just be like, "Oh, I guess that's

00:04:49   just syntax for that in this language." It's the advantage of hanging out in a multi-paradigm

00:04:55   programming language. Other languages don't seem that weird. I mean, everyone's got their own

00:05:00   syntax. The same reason that you felt comfortable with Go and Swift is because you're like, "Oh,

00:05:05   I've seen structures and classes and methods and types and inheritance before. I've seen all that

00:05:11   before, I just thought this is just a different syntax for doing that type of stuff. And I've

00:05:14   seen, you know, exceptions and case statements and, you know, maybe optionals were a little new,

00:05:20   but, you know, one new concept is not too hard for you to swallow. But if Scala has a whole bunch of

00:05:27   stuff that you haven't seen before, you get the weird syntax, also weird syntax for a thing that

00:05:32   that you haven't even done in a different syntax before that you can map it to, you

00:05:35   know?

00:05:36   Well, and that's the thing is that, you know, as I've said many times in the past, I think

00:05:39   Swift is kind of—everyone can look at Swift and see their preferred programming language.

00:05:46   I feel like you as a Perl programmer, Jon, could look at Swift and say, "Oh yeah, they

00:05:50   totally stole that from us."

00:05:52   And Marco is someone who does whatever you do with PHP.

00:05:56   You can look at that and say, "Oh yeah, that's how this should have worked in PHP, but doesn't."

00:06:00   as a C# developer and Marco as an Objective-C developer, you know, you can see that stuff in

00:06:05   Swift, whereas in Scala, and in Scala I can see some of the same stuff. Like, I can see when you

00:06:11   do very, I guess, I don't know if rudimentary is the word I'm looking for, but like basic Scala,

00:06:16   I can see, oh yeah, Swift took that from Scala. Like, Optionals, the way Optionals work is a

00:06:20   great example. Like, Swift--

00:06:21   Take it from Scala, like all these, like, you gotta do the family tree. It's like, for example,

00:06:24   there's almost nothing in PHP that wasn't, you know, didn't come from Perl or Shell or

00:06:28   or something else before.

00:06:29   So there's a big family tree of things,

00:06:31   just depends on like, this is the first language

00:06:32   you encounter this stuff, forever you will think,

00:06:34   oh, that's from Scala, but really it's totally not.

00:06:37   It's like something from Lisp or whatever.

00:06:38   - Yeah, yeah, no, that's totally fair.

00:06:40   But you see what I'm driving at, right?

00:06:41   Is that basic Scala, where things make sense

00:06:46   and it's like written for noobs, that I can understand,

00:06:49   right, but then you start getting this crazy crap where,

00:06:53   so as an example, Akko, which is again, this like,

00:06:56   I'm gonna summarize it as like a networking,

00:06:58   like client server framework.

00:07:00   That's completely unfair,

00:07:01   but I can't come up with a better way to summarize it.

00:07:03   So the way you send a message using Akka within Scala

00:07:08   is you do like either the client or the server.

00:07:13   So the line of code would read, for example,

00:07:16   server paren paren, because server is a function,

00:07:19   exclamation point message.

00:07:22   So exclamation point has been presumably operator overloaded

00:07:25   to send a message that you define

00:07:27   on the right-hand side of the line

00:07:29   to the destination defined on the left-hand side of the line.

00:07:31   I know this is really hard to do verbally, but--

00:07:33   - I was gonna say, like, source code on podcasts

00:07:35   is kind of amazing. - Yeah, I know.

00:07:36   This is not going well for me.

00:07:38   But you see what, like, it's just, imagine,

00:07:40   it's a function call, an exclamation point,

00:07:43   and then a variable.

00:07:44   Like, what?

00:07:44   What the hell is happening here?

00:07:47   And again, I think a lot of this is probably my problem,

00:07:50   and if this makes it in the show,

00:07:51   we're gonna get all the Scala people yelling at me

00:07:53   about how I just don't know what I'm talking about, which is accurate.

00:07:57   But as someone who's new to it, but has been writing code professionally for over a decade

00:08:02   and casually for 20 years now, man, is it weird and different.

00:08:07   And I think a lot of this, it comes down to almost every programming language I've done,

00:08:13   looks or I think traces itself back to C. And yes, on the surface, Scala does too, but

00:08:18   I feel like there's the family tree diverged and took like like hung a right on the way

00:08:23   to Scala where where most of the other stuff even Swift kind of just marched down down

00:08:28   the line the way it was supposed to if you will with scare quotes. I don't know it's

00:08:31   trippy.

00:08:32   I mean I think a lot of what you're seeing too is just like languages have have certain

00:08:35   cultures and communities around them based on their attributes and their community. So

00:08:39   for instance like you don't see a lot of cleverness in PHP code that you find online you're lucky

00:08:45   if it works. And the reason why is because PHP is used by people pragmatically for the

00:08:52   most part. It's used by people who are at all skill levels, you know, bottom to top,

00:08:57   and there's a lot of people on the bottom of course, because it's an easy language to

00:08:59   learn if you're a newbie, so there's a lot of that. And then even the people who are

00:09:03   good at using it, they tend to pick PHP because it is pragmatic and it helps them get some

00:09:08   kind of job done. And then as you get the languages that become more dynamic and have

00:09:13   all sorts of weird little syntax sugar that's possible with them. I mean, Pearl is the king

00:09:17   of this, but also, you know, obviously you see this in other languages. Ruby was a big

00:09:20   one for a while. And of course, then once you go functional languages, then all bets

00:09:24   are off. Functional people are like living on another planet. And so, as you get like

00:09:29   more, more esoteric and with more clever languages, not only do the languages make a lot of like

00:09:35   like crazy, complex, unreadable, but cool things possible.

00:09:40   But also, generally way more skilled programmers

00:09:44   are the ones who choose to use those languages.

00:09:46   Or people who are language nerds,

00:09:47   who really love the weird things you can do

00:09:51   with these different languages that you can't easily

00:09:54   or at all do in other languages, right?

00:09:56   So you will see people using an obscure language

00:09:59   like Scala or Haskell in a way that like,

00:10:03   almost showing off what they can do because it's fun because whatever crazy thing they're

00:10:08   doing they enjoy doing that because they can't do that in Objective-C or PHP.

00:10:12   Yeah, I don't know, it's weird.

00:10:14   It's not, and again none of this is really bad, it's just peculiar.

00:10:18   And I think what's frustrating to me is as an experienced developer, by no means an expert,

00:10:23   but as an experienced developer it's very frustrating for me because I feel like I'm

00:10:28   not catching on as quickly as I'd like, and I feel like Scala is not as approachable to

00:10:33   someone that happens to have my background as other languages have been.

00:10:37   It doesn't make Scala worse or bad or wrong, but it's just, I have not, even Objective-C

00:10:43   I feel like it was easier for me to pick up than this, and it's just, it's weird man,

00:10:48   super weird.

00:10:49   In any case, Jon, tell me what's going on with your earbuds, earpods, excuse me.

00:10:54   This is on my new iPhone 7 that I was talking about last week.

00:10:57   I've got a new complaint.

00:10:59   We talked about the fat lightning connector last time.

00:11:03   That still annoys me.

00:11:05   But I figured I'd get over that.

00:11:06   But one thing that I was accustomed to with the old headphone jack on my iPhone 6 and

00:11:12   all my iPod touches before that and my iPod shuffles before that was that if it was playing

00:11:18   audio and I put the earbuds in my ears and then I plugged in the headphone, the audio

00:11:24   would change to coming out of the headphones.

00:11:26   And the other thing I took for granted is if I had my headphones plugged in and audio

00:11:30   was playing and I hit the little remote thing, it would stop the audio from playing or started

00:11:35   depending on whether it was stopped or started.

00:11:36   And these sound like basic functions.

00:11:38   Both of them have failed multiple times today playing audio on my thing and you know, I

00:11:45   haven't quite gotten to the point where I'm plugging in the headphones, I just hit play

00:11:47   Now it's playing through the speaker for two seconds. I plug in the headphones. It just keeps playing through the speakers

00:11:51   Unplug the headphones plug back in just keeps playing through the speakers. Whatever man

00:11:56   You know pause the thing plug it in again hit play now plays through the headphones playing through the headphones

00:12:03   You know, I'm doing dishes. My wife says something to me. I want to stop the thing so I can hear hit the remote

00:12:08   It doesn't stop playing hit the remote again. Nope, not stopping playing hit the remote again. Nope, not stopping playing

00:12:13   This is no good that you can't have that you got it

00:12:15   It's got to do the basics when I plug in the headphones

00:12:18   The audio should start coming over the headphones like and I'm I'm assuming this is a software thing

00:12:22   So there's hope of it being fixed

00:12:24   like I don't think it's I have bad hardware or anything because it fixes itself if I

00:12:29   wait a few seconds or

00:12:31   Plug the thing back in a few times or you know hit play pause and the thing or whatever

00:12:35   I don't like it. I give it a big thumbs down. I hope this goes away in a point update to iOS it won't

00:12:42   Not good.

00:12:44   I haven't had this experience, but to be honest, I've only used the Lightning EarPods a handful

00:12:49   of times, and they have worked outside of that original software issue that Scott McNulty

00:12:55   – is that right?

00:12:56   The guy who did Dash?

00:12:57   Super nice guy.

00:12:58   Anyway, that he had discovered where it would like time out and it wouldn't listen to

00:13:02   the remote anymore, but that apparently has been fixed.

00:13:05   Other than that, I haven't had any problems.

00:13:07   Have you, Marco?

00:13:08   Have you even really used the EarPods?

00:13:10   I haven't used the EarPods at all.

00:13:12   The only headphones I've used are either Bluetooth ones

00:13:14   for walking or the adapter to the old headphone jack

00:13:19   for playing headphones.

00:13:21   And Bluetooth is as mediocre and inconsistent

00:13:26   as it always has been, and the lighting adapter sucks.

00:13:30   It functions, but I'm angry every time it functions,

00:13:35   especially as my phone discharges itself

00:13:37   and I have this stupid dongle to keep track of now,

00:13:40   And it really is kind of a cheap piece of crap

00:13:42   that I'm worried is going to snap at any moment

00:13:45   'cause the cable's about as thick as a human hair.

00:13:47   So other than that, it's fine.

00:13:51   I, yeah.

00:13:54   So far, with the lack of AirPods being existing yet,

00:13:59   the whole story about removing the headphone jack

00:14:01   has kind of fallen on its face

00:14:02   'cause it's like, all right,

00:14:03   well, we removed the headphone jack and now we have,

00:14:06   well, the same mediocrity we had before

00:14:08   with some things that got worse.

00:14:10   (laughs)

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00:16:18   [Music]

00:16:19   [Music]

00:16:20   [Music]

00:16:21   [Music]

00:16:22   Most of the internet has written in to tell us that you can indeed download the Grand

00:16:26   Tour.

00:16:27   Asterisk.

00:16:28   Yeah, that is slightly accurate.

00:16:30   So I thought it was pretty obvious, and I did listen back to what we were saying, and

00:16:33   I thought it was fairly obvious that, for me anyway, what I was trying to say was, "I

00:16:39   would like a copy on my computer.

00:16:41   I don't want a copy on my phone.

00:16:43   I don't want a copy on my iPad.

00:16:45   I want a copy on my computer."

00:16:47   And it would be neat if that copy didn't have to fall off the back of a truck.

00:16:52   That does not exist.

00:16:53   So for all of you that said, "You idiots, you could have downloaded Grand Tour," well,

00:16:57   yes, that's true, but it doesn't help Casey.

00:17:00   However, being able to download it and keep it in app might have helped Jon.

00:17:07   Because, Jon, I believe you were saying that you didn't want it to buffer and you wanted

00:17:10   to make sure it was full res, etc., etc.

00:17:13   So in principle, that would have helped you.

00:17:15   I was looking for it to mostly to say, like, I demand 1080.

00:17:18   Download as much as you have to so that I can start watching it.

00:17:21   You know what I mean?

00:17:22   I guess I suppose I could just say download the whole thing first.

00:17:24   But that's, you know, it's going to the advantage.

00:17:26   But when you sit down to watch a thing, especially if it's getting the crappy version, I don't

00:17:31   want to have to say, "Oh, it's going to be downloaded in 15 minutes, so come back in

00:17:34   15 minutes."

00:17:35   I want it to buffer up as much as it needs to buffer, maybe buffer for five minutes or

00:17:39   something.

00:17:40   Basically, I want it to say, "Don't give me the stream if you can't give me 1080.

00:17:42   If you can't give me 1080, then just keep trickling in the 1080 until you have enough

00:17:47   that you think you can start showing it to me in real time."

00:17:49   Maybe that would have to wait 15 minutes or something.

00:17:51   Maybe it would be just as bad.

00:17:52   I don't know.

00:17:53   Anyway, I'll try it next time.

00:17:54   I haven't watched episode two because I heard all you guys say bad things about it, so I'm

00:17:59   motivated to watch it.

00:18:01   Yeah, so quick sidebar, we have to bring it up, and I was going to bring it up anyway.

00:18:05   Wow, episode two is rough.

00:18:06   Did you watch it yet, Marco?

00:18:07   No, I haven't yet.

00:18:08   I don't want to spoil it.

00:18:09   I keep hearing, though, that it is kind of a step backwards in quality.

00:18:13   So, yeah.

00:18:14   I don't want to spoil anything, but I will just summarize my thoughts by saying our hosts

00:18:20   seem to have forgotten that they are not actors.

00:18:22   Oh, no.

00:18:23   And yeah. Oof. Oh, it was bad. It was not good. It's worth seeing. Like, so here's the

00:18:29   thing, like, again, no spoilers, I definitely laughed a fair bit. So in that sense it was

00:18:36   successful, but half of that was laughing through the cringing and half of it was general—was

00:18:42   true laughter.

00:18:43   - Would you have laughed if you were watching it alone?

00:18:47   - I understand the question. I would say yes, but not nearly as emphatically.

00:18:53   Hmm it's worth your time, but unlike the first episode I wouldn't rush

00:18:58   To watch it. You might even want to wait until the series is off season whatever they're calling it

00:19:05   Is it a season now since it's kind of an American show anyway wait until it's over and then go back to episode two, but

00:19:11   yikes

00:19:13   coming back around

00:19:15   We should also mention that breaking news as of a few hours ago actually

00:19:20   Apparently Netflix is allowing you to download stuff onto your devices as well. I didn't look into this very much

00:19:27   I would guess that this is not onto a computer but just onto a iOS or perhaps Android device

00:19:33   But this never used to be a thing. There was no mechanism for Netflix to

00:19:37   To be able to refer you to be able to download Netflix movies and TV shows and whatnot now apparently you can which is exciting

00:19:45   There were a few thoughts about the lack of the arms or ears or whatever you'd like to call them on the power brick on

00:19:52   the new MacBook Pros.

00:19:54   A lot of people thought that this was a deliberate choice because

00:19:59   the

00:20:01   existing cables, and do we cover this? The existing cable on the prior version with MagSafe,

00:20:06   oftentimes when you would

00:20:09   bend that cable in order to wrap it around those arms or ears or whatever we're calling them, you would put a pretty extreme

00:20:15   stream bend on the very, very end of that cable, the end that attaches to the power

00:20:20   brick. And apparently that was just a tremendous point of failure across a gazillion people's

00:20:25   power bricks. And so perhaps the reason they got rid of the little ears is to prevent that

00:20:32   from happening. But I agree with you that I don't think that's what it's about.

00:20:36   But a lot of—

00:20:37   Well, it wasn't just the part where it comes out of the brick. A lot of the people's

00:20:40   theory was that the ears, you know, even if you were very gentle with that part, merely

00:20:44   wrapping it around the little ears that come out, that that bend radius was too sharp for

00:20:49   the wire. And I don't, well, I don't buy this theory for a couple reasons. Well, first of

00:20:56   all, many people have used those ears for years and not had a problem with it. If it

00:20:59   was actually below the threshold, you feel like there would be many more failures. Now,

00:21:03   I've seen all the failures of the point there comes out of the brick, and that is just,

00:21:07   you know, you're wrapping it too hard or whatever. But if you are gentle with it and wrap it

00:21:09   around the little ears, I feel like it is sustainable. But either way, if people want

00:21:15   to wrap it, they're going to wrap it, as evidenced in Marco's video that we'll talk about in

00:21:20   the after show. You can just wrap it around the brick, like it's the same radius as the

00:21:25   ears. I mean, I guess maybe it's a little, no, I guess it's, yeah, maybe it's a little

00:21:30   bit broader because the ears were not the same width as the block. But either way, if

00:21:33   people want to wrap that cable, they're going to wrap that cable. And the people who wrap

00:21:36   it tight are going to wrap it tight. Apple's job is to make an adapter that will withstand

00:21:43   what people do to it. If you can make an adapter that will not make people need to wrap up

00:21:46   the cable, like the cable magically zips back into it or something, by all means do it.

00:21:50   But if you're going to make an adapter that most people, when they pack it in their bag,

00:21:54   want to wrap the cable around something and they've got the square thing that they like

00:21:57   to wrap it around, you better make that cable so people can wrap it around the square thing

00:22:01   without breaking it. And I think for the most part they did that with the old adapters.

00:22:05   Yes, everybody breaks every cable that they own.

00:22:08   It's like sponge cutters,

00:22:09   which I think we've talked about in the kitchen.

00:22:11   Some people are just cable breakers.

00:22:13   They eventually destroy all the cables

00:22:14   and other people don't.

00:22:16   And Apple's cables need to be more durable

00:22:18   and the string relief needs to be more robust.

00:22:21   But in general, I don't think Apple's square power bricks

00:22:24   that have existed for many, many years

00:22:26   have a reputation as being fatally flawed.

00:22:30   Like I feel like that is a workable design

00:22:32   that they should concentrate on making better

00:22:34   instead of, you know, if the idea was these ears

00:22:37   cause people to wrap things and therefore the cable breaks,

00:22:40   removing the ears doesn't solve that problem.

00:22:42   The cable breakers are still just gonna break their cable.

00:22:44   So I don't think that was the reason.

00:22:46   If it was, I would imagine Apple would have cited it

00:22:48   at some point, but, and if it was the reason,

00:22:51   I would say, Apple, your job is to make the cable not break,

00:22:54   not take away the thing that you think

00:22:55   people are gonna wrap it around.

00:22:57   - And that's the thing too, like, you know,

00:22:59   the argument here is, and before I get into this,

00:23:02   you know, another counterargument we heard

00:23:03   was that now it isn't just carrying power.

00:23:06   Now the cable is a full USB-C 3.1 cable,

00:23:10   so it has more wires inside of it.

00:23:13   And that's why the new power cable

00:23:15   is actually noticeably thicker and less flexible

00:23:18   than the old one.

00:23:19   And to that, my answer is, it didn't need to be necessarily.

00:23:23   Like, this is a cable that the vast majority of people

00:23:26   using it the vast majority of the time

00:23:27   are going to use as the power cable to the laptop.

00:23:31   it's going to be effectively a dedicated power cable.

00:23:34   Most people are not gonna be swapping in and out

00:23:36   between different cables all the time,

00:23:38   between using this cable as a power cable

00:23:41   and then unplugging it from the power brick

00:23:42   and using it to plug in a hard drive for a few minutes.

00:23:44   No, in practice, most people are gonna use this cable

00:23:47   as the power cable for its entire useful lifetime.

00:23:50   - And you can solve that the Apple way.

00:23:51   The way they used to solve that is make the end

00:23:54   that connects to the brick not a USB-C connector.

00:23:56   And then you just make it a straight up power connector,

00:23:58   does not work as a USB connector,

00:24:00   because only one end is USB-C

00:24:01   and the other end is some weird thing.

00:24:03   The thing they used to do that with is the keyboard.

00:24:05   Remember the old Apple keyboards

00:24:07   that supported the power button?

00:24:08   The connector that went into the keyboard end

00:24:09   had a kink in it and you couldn't put a regular USB in there?

00:24:12   - This is before our time.

00:24:13   (dramatic music)

00:24:15   - Anyway, yeah, so it used to be that there was a,

00:24:17   the power button to turn on your Mac was on the keyboard.

00:24:20   And to support that, to basically to support turning on

00:24:22   a turned off computer by pressing a thing on the keyboard,

00:24:25   they had a special cable with a special whatever.

00:24:27   and the USB type A connector had a little V-shaped

00:24:30   like groove in it, and so did the end

00:24:33   where it went into the keyboard.

00:24:34   So if you tried to stick a regular USB type A connector,

00:24:36   it wouldn't go in because the little rectangle

00:24:38   would hit the little triangle shaped divot

00:24:40   that was down there.

00:24:41   And that was your signal that,

00:24:42   oh, I can't just take this cable and use it.

00:24:44   This is not a regular USB cable, it's a special one.

00:24:46   So for their power brick,

00:24:48   and I bet people would have complained about this,

00:24:50   but they have two options.

00:24:51   One, they could have permanently affixed the end

00:24:52   to the power brick like the old one,

00:24:54   although that has disadvantages too

00:24:55   because of that part breaks, right?

00:24:56   And the second is, make it a power only cable

00:24:59   with a big thick heavy gauge, you know,

00:25:02   wire for the power and no wires for data.

00:25:06   Have a USB-C looking connector on one end

00:25:08   and have whatever the hell connector you want to put

00:25:10   on the other end, but that definitely isn't USB-C.

00:25:12   So there would like basically be a proprietary power cable

00:25:15   or whatever.

00:25:16   Many solutions to this,

00:25:18   just deciding that the power cable for your laptop,

00:25:21   like you said, has to be a fully functional USB-C cable

00:25:24   that you, hey, you can take it off and use it on a hard drive

00:25:26   that you wanna keep six feet away from your Mac

00:25:27   for some reason.

00:25:28   A, I don't even know if that's true.

00:25:30   Marco can try it out and see if it is.

00:25:32   A, I don't even know if that's true.

00:25:33   And B, that's not a useful application if it is true.

00:25:35   Like that's not a useful thing to do.

00:25:38   - Yeah, exactly.

00:25:39   And I feel like to penalize all other mainstream use

00:25:44   of this computer for the fraction of people

00:25:47   who either want to keep a hard drive

00:25:49   six feet away from their computer

00:25:50   and occasionally plug it in without having power

00:25:52   or are going to break all their cables all the time,

00:25:55   I feel like that's not a good trade off.

00:25:59   The solution to some people fray this wire

00:26:02   is not, well, let's make it suck for everybody.

00:26:06   No, that is not the right solution here.

00:26:08   The right solution here, which Apple, I think,

00:26:11   used to be good at doing, is find a better design

00:26:14   if you need to and do the thing that functions best

00:26:18   for the most people most of the time.

00:26:19   And every defense of this power brick design

00:26:24   basically rests on removing the usefulness of it

00:26:27   for most people to accommodate some edge cases.

00:26:29   And I simply don't agree with that.

00:26:32   - Yeah, I think you're right.

00:26:34   Coming back around to what do you do

00:26:37   to prevent this from breaking,

00:26:39   or what happens if it breaks,

00:26:41   one of the advantages of this new power supply,

00:26:43   which I don't know if we brought this up last time or not,

00:26:45   but a lot of people have said,

00:26:46   one of the advantages of this new power supply is,

00:26:48   hey, let's assume you destroy that cable

00:26:50   by whatever mechanism, doesn't really matter how.

00:26:52   It's a regular USB-C cable,

00:26:54   so instead of buying a new $80 brick,

00:26:57   you can just buy a presumably maybe 10 or 20 or 30

00:26:59   or even $40 USB-C cable, and your brick is still fine.

00:27:04   And that's really awesome.

00:27:05   Additionally-- - It costs $40

00:27:07   for a USB-C cable?

00:27:08   I hope not.

00:27:08   - I don't have the faintest idea.

00:27:09   - Well, but these are high-power USB cables

00:27:13   that can carry the much higher wattages

00:27:16   of the 13 and 15-inch MacBook Pros

00:27:18   compared to the little skinny ones

00:27:20   that could maybe charge the MacBook One.

00:27:22   So the idea that we can get third-party replacements here,

00:27:26   I think for the most part, it's gonna be

00:27:29   pretty much only Apple making these cables for a long time.

00:27:32   It might be forever, you know?

00:27:34   The PC industry could decide to go

00:27:35   a different direction with these things, we don't know.

00:27:38   In all likelihood, it's probably going to be,

00:27:41   if this cable breaks, you can either buy one from Amazon

00:27:43   that will melt or catch fire

00:27:45   or not charge your laptop at full speed,

00:27:47   or you can go and buy apples for 40 bucks.

00:27:49   That's probably gonna be the answer here.

00:27:51   And so, I think the third party potential

00:27:55   as like a counter argument here,

00:27:57   is kind of made less significant by,

00:28:01   you can look around the USB-C ecosystem

00:28:03   and you can see like all the stuff

00:28:05   that's been out for the MacBook One so far,

00:28:07   which is now almost two years old.

00:28:09   So that's had a while now.

00:28:10   It was very clear from the beginning, like you know.

00:28:13   - Yeah, but it's a niche product.

00:28:15   Niche, niche, whatever, however you pronounce that word.

00:28:17   - Well not really.

00:28:18   And so anyway, you can look at the ecosystem

00:28:21   things that have become available for that so far from third parties. And what you basically

00:28:25   have is a mess of like hubs and port splitters, some of which are okay, most of which are

00:28:32   crap and it's kind of hard to tell which is which. And then you have a very small number

00:28:38   of external batteries and external chargers and third party charging cables, a very small

00:28:43   number of those, most of which are of questionable quality I would say. So even after two years,

00:28:50   The third party ecosystem for USB-C in the realm of high powered things like laptops

00:28:56   has barely materialized.

00:28:58   And so to assume that anything meaningful will come out for a 15 inch which needs 85

00:29:06   watts in the next couple years, I don't see it being very likely.

00:29:11   I think what's more likely is we just lost features and when things break we still have

00:29:17   to pay Apple for the replacement, we just might have to pay them less money depending

00:29:20   on which part or parts broke.

00:29:23   Making a removable is a good idea though. I like the idea that it's removable. It's

00:29:26   much better to be able to buy a replacement cable. I just don't care about buying, like,

00:29:30   "Oh, and when you buy a replacement cable, it's just a USB-C cable." It's like Marco

00:29:33   said, A, it's not just a USB-C cable, it's a special one that's a firepower, and B, just

00:29:38   make it proprietary on one end. Like, I'll pay Apple the 20 bucks for a replacement if

00:29:42   I'm a wire killer and I kill the thing, it's much better than buying an $80 brick, right?

00:29:46   cable, you know, thumbs up, everybody likes it. Like, it was an opportunity to take an

00:29:53   existing design and fix some of the things that are wrong with it, just like making the

00:29:57   iPhone 6s less slippery or whatever. Like, you got the bricks, I mean you could redesign

00:30:02   them entirely and reimagine it and count something way better, but if you don't have the time

00:30:05   or budget to do that, then just take the one you have and make it a little better. And

00:30:08   making it a removable cable does make it a little bit better, but removing the ears and

00:30:13   making it removable, but making it a big thick USB-C cable that's not easy to wrap.

00:30:17   I mean, that's the other thing people suggested, like, look, don't wrap it around anything,

00:30:21   just disconnect it entirely, coil it into a circle with a nice bend radius, and now

00:30:24   you have a circle that's about the same size as the square, and you just, I don't know,

00:30:29   stick them together with a rubber band or something, and there you go.

00:30:32   I think that it is what you should do instead of trying to wrap it around the brick to be

00:30:35   clear, but people are going to do what they're going to do.

00:30:38   I'm not sure if people are going to take advantage of that, and that cable, I didn't realize

00:30:42   I think it was until I saw Marco's video is it's that's pretty cumbersome

00:30:45   Yeah, so the replacement

00:30:48   USB-c charge cable that's specifically in the product information noted to be for the MacBook pros and in the MacBook adorable

00:30:56   The six foot two meter version is $19 from Apple. So I when I said $40 earlier

00:31:02   I just had no idea and the chat room has provided a link. We'll put it in the show notes. It's $20 from Apple

00:31:06   that's again two meters a

00:31:09   One meter or three foot

00:31:11   equivalent cable from anchor is

00:31:14   $15 and this one from anchor is specifically noted in the product to product description to carry up to 100 watts. So

00:31:21   It's not terribly expensive to replace these and it's a heck of a lot less expensive

00:31:26   Like I said earlier than replacing an $80 brick, which is awesome additionally, and I think John you just alluded to this

00:31:31   You know

00:31:32   You can just disconnect it and I think part of the reason that I lamented losing the ears

00:31:37   was because I wanted some way to wrap up that part of the cable that used to be attached,

00:31:41   permanently attached to the brick. And it didn't occur to me when I was

00:31:45   talking about it last episode that, "Oh, I can just pop the darn thing out." And like you said, Jon, coil it up by whatever

00:31:51   mechanism I feel appropriate, and then I don't need those ears anymore at all.

00:31:54   So I've been really bummed in principle about the lack of ears, and I am standing down from that.

00:32:01   I think that was me not thinking the problem through.

00:32:04   I am still a bit bummed by MagSafe and I know that there's the Belkin or Griffin or whatever

00:32:09   it is thing that you can kind of hack MagSafe back in.

00:32:12   I don't really care for that but I understand why it's not MagSafe.

00:32:16   I think it was probably the right decision overall but I am bummed about the loss.

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00:34:41   So if you happen to break both pieces of your power adapter,

00:34:50   or if you want a second power adapter,

00:34:54   it appears that the new one is more expensive

00:34:56   than the old one.

00:34:57   What a surprise.

00:34:58   - Is it really?

00:34:59   I didn't know that.

00:35:00   - The old, the 85, assuming you have a 15 inch,

00:35:03   the 85 watt, actually it looks like it's true

00:35:06   for the 13s as well, the 85 watt MagSafe 2 power adapter,

00:35:10   which includes, not only does it include

00:35:13   the MagSafe cable and brick obviously,

00:35:15   but I think it even includes that extension cable, doesn't it?

00:35:18   That's at $19?

00:35:19   Anyway, even if you, so that is $79.

00:35:23   - So that's what it was, right?

00:35:24   - Yeah, $79 for the old adapter, for the old 15 inch.

00:35:27   - Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were talking

00:35:28   about the new one, my apologies.

00:35:29   - The new one is $79 just for the brick part.

00:35:32   - Oh, wow.

00:35:33   - So if you want to match what you got before,

00:35:36   you have to spend another $19 for the USB-C cable

00:35:41   and optionally another $19 for the actual

00:35:44   three prime extension cable that used to come

00:35:46   with the old one.

00:35:46   - I gotta check if I ordered that.

00:35:48   When I ordered my adapters for my work thing,

00:35:50   I don't know if I took that into account

00:35:52   'cause I ordered a second power brick like for home,

00:35:54   so I don't have to bring the power brick back and forth,

00:35:55   but I don't know if I ordered the power cable thing.

00:35:59   - Probably not.

00:36:00   So actually what we have here is a price hike

00:36:03   by either 20 or $40 depending on whether you need

00:36:05   the extra long three prong cable or not.

00:36:08   Fun.

00:36:09   Thanks Tim.

00:36:10   Yet another accessories price hike.

00:36:12   Add it to the dongles,

00:36:13   add it to the now two-sided iPad cases.

00:36:16   Keep adding it up Tim, thanks a lot.

00:36:19   - Yeah and there was some article that flew around,

00:36:22   It doesn't matter where it was, but I read somewhere somebody saying, you know, a lot

00:36:24   of these things I can justify, like we were just talking about with the MagSafe, you know,

00:36:28   the loss of MagSafe.

00:36:29   Yeah, it sucks, but I can justify it.

00:36:31   And you know, yeah, losing the year sucks, but you can justify it.

00:36:34   But man, these sorts of price hikes, maybe they're a lot more complex on the inside and

00:36:40   I don't, I'm not aware of it and I'm not giving it due credit.

00:36:45   But golly, it's hard for this not to just seem like gouging or, you know, or nickel

00:36:50   and diming for the sake of doing so.

00:36:52   Like when did Apple become Porsche?

00:36:54   - In many ways, Tim has continued Apple doing things

00:36:57   that we think are right, but there are going to be changes

00:37:01   on a big scale when the operations guy

00:37:04   who's really good at profit and operations

00:37:07   takes over the company from the product visionary.

00:37:09   And it's not to say that Steve didn't care about profit.

00:37:12   He very much would charge outrageous amounts

00:37:14   for whatever he felt like because he thought he could.

00:37:17   And sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.

00:37:19   But when you have the operations guy take over the company,

00:37:23   there are going to be changes like this.

00:37:25   It's inevitable.

00:37:27   Tim Cook, he means well.

00:37:29   I think he means well for the product and for Apple,

00:37:32   but he is very much numbers and profit driven.

00:37:35   That shows in a lot of things Apple has done

00:37:38   in the last five years.

00:37:39   It really, really shows.

00:37:41   You know, as I mentioned last show,

00:37:44   with a lot of Apple changes,

00:37:45   you can kind of take the charitable explanation,

00:37:49   or you can realize like, you know,

00:37:51   well there's also this other side effect

00:37:52   which is Apple makes more money now,

00:37:54   or things got more expensive with this progress that we made,

00:37:57   or things like that, right?

00:37:59   These kind of changes are inevitable

00:38:01   with Tim Cook running the company.

00:38:04   It's going to keep happening.

00:38:05   We're going to keep seeing things get cut.

00:38:07   We're gonna see features that get cut.

00:38:09   We're gonna see accessories that used to be included

00:38:12   that now cost money.

00:38:14   We're just gonna keep seeing this

00:38:16   because the way Tim Cook operates

00:38:19   is to find profit and extract it.

00:38:22   That is what he's really good at,

00:38:24   and it's going to keep happening.

00:38:25   As long as Tim Cook is the CEO,

00:38:27   and I don't have any reason to believe

00:38:28   it's going to end anytime soon,

00:38:30   as long as Tim Cook is the CEO of Apple,

00:38:32   it's going to keep going down this path,

00:38:34   but things are going to get more pared down

00:38:37   and more expensive, and it's gonna somehow result

00:38:40   in giving Apple more money for the kinds of things

00:38:44   that we used to not have to give them

00:38:45   that much money for.

00:38:46   That's just how, that's what's going to happen.

00:38:49   It is happening, it has been happening,

00:38:50   and it will continue to happen.

00:38:52   - Yeah, I mean, I don't know, it's,

00:38:55   again, there may be perfectly valid reasons

00:38:57   for all these things, but golly,

00:38:58   looking from the sidelines, it's hard for me

00:39:01   to see what they are, for not everything,

00:39:02   but a lot of them.

00:39:03   - Well, and some of these things do have valid reasons also,

00:39:07   but it's really hard to ignore that they,

00:39:10   wow, you know, there are a few justifications

00:39:12   for this change, but then also,

00:39:14   Apple now makes 40 bucks more every time you buy.

00:39:16   It's like, yeah, you have to look at both sides of that.

00:39:20   It's important to be, to at least try to figure out

00:39:24   a good reason why they might have done something,

00:39:26   but it's also important not to be foolish, you know?

00:39:28   To realize like, oh, also, they did this for the profit.

00:39:32   - Yeah, yeah, and I think the perfect example to me

00:39:35   is that extension cable that goes

00:39:37   to the three-prong connector in,

00:39:39   or I don't know how that works in other countries,

00:39:41   But here in the States, you have the little receptacle that goes on the power brick, and

00:39:46   then it's like this two or three, I guess like a three or four foot cable that goes

00:39:50   into the wall, and it has a ground on it because not all of our plugs need grounds.

00:39:54   Yes, I know, that's barbaric if you're British, blah blah blah blah blah.

00:39:58   But—

00:39:59   British people cannot complain about our plugs.

00:40:00   Their plug is the size of a Buick.

00:40:01   Oh, don't even get me started.

00:40:03   It's absurd, but it's very safe.

00:40:04   We can safely walk around our house at night with bare feet.

00:40:09   In any case, the point I'm driving at though is that

00:40:11   it is hard for me to understand why it is

00:40:16   that that $20 cable is no longer included

00:40:19   in this $2,000 to $5,000 laptop.

00:40:21   Like that, it's just hard for me to understand

00:40:23   why that could be.

00:40:24   Maybe there's a reason.

00:40:25   - I mean, not only does Tim need,

00:40:28   does Tim just, is he really good at profitability

00:40:31   and increasing that, but look, a lot of Apple's numbers

00:40:33   are not doing so well recently.

00:40:35   If you look at their earnings, their Wall Street results,

00:40:37   their sales figures, they have a lot of pressure on them

00:40:41   to increase profitability, and obviously,

00:40:45   one way you do this is by selling more units,

00:40:47   another way you do it is by making more money from each one.

00:40:49   And so the pressure is very strong on Tim Cook personally,

00:40:54   because that's the kind of thing,

00:40:56   like if that starts going south for a while,

00:40:57   you tend to want to replace the CEO.

00:40:59   So the pressure's very strong at the top

00:41:02   to increase those revenue numbers,

00:41:05   to increase those margins, to basically combat

00:41:09   what's actually happening in the market,

00:41:11   which is kind of this general cooling

00:41:13   of a lot of the markets that Apple's in, right?

00:41:16   You have iPad sales kind of not going great,

00:41:21   you have the Mac kind of slowing,

00:41:23   you have the iPhone kind of leveling off a little bit.

00:41:26   Apple has a lot of pressure on it now

00:41:28   to make more money somehow, and it used to be not,

00:41:32   you know, not easy in absolute terms,

00:41:34   but it used to be easier, they could, well,

00:41:37   they could just keep selling more of these things,

00:41:38   it's great, everything's going well.

00:41:40   But now, with the cooling off of their numbers

00:41:43   in the market, there's tons of pressure

00:41:44   for them to just increase profitability.

00:41:45   So we're seeing the screws tighten all over the product line,

00:41:50   the services, all the screws are tightening

00:41:53   because they have to keep making more money.

00:41:55   And they have to do it from any way they can now

00:41:57   because otherwise these numbers are gonna start

00:41:59   maybe getting worse and, you know,

00:42:00   so we're gonna keep seeing this.

00:42:03   There's a reason why, like, we're going to keep seeing

00:42:06   products that give us, that are somehow, you know,

00:42:09   a little bit cheaper to make maybe, or at least,

00:42:12   or include less without paying extra, you know,

00:42:15   we're not gonna see massive increases in like,

00:42:18   iCloud storage for free or anything like that.

00:42:21   Apple needs more money from us,

00:42:24   and that's gonna keep happening.

00:42:27   - Yeah, we'll see.

00:42:28   Final bit of follow-up for today.

00:42:31   Apple is out of the WiFi business, which we knew,

00:42:33   But we had an email from an anonymous employee of a major company that makes products that

00:42:39   integrate with Wi-Fi routers.

00:42:41   And this individual said, "We're sad that Apple is not making Wi-Fi routers anymore,

00:42:46   because out of all the equipment that we deal with worldwide, the airports had the fewest

00:42:50   problems, and the two problems that we had seem to have gotten themselves fixed some

00:42:54   way somehow."

00:42:57   And that's a pretty glowing recommendation from someone who presumably is in the know.

00:43:01   Finally, JD Power & Associates apparently rated Apple's routers as having the highest

00:43:07   or best or what have you customer satisfaction, or if you're Tim Cook, customer sat of all

00:43:13   available Wi-Fi routers.

00:43:15   So whoops.

00:43:16   Well, the customer sat thing is kind of funny because there's, you know, you've got the

00:43:20   endowment effect or whatever the hell it's called.

00:43:22   When you buy something expensive, you're more inclined to say that it's good because you

00:43:24   don't want to feel foolish for making the purchase.

00:43:26   And so Apple's routers are very expensive and therefore people who buy them are more

00:43:29   likely to say that they're good. And also it's got the Apple brand where even if your Wi-Fi router

00:43:36   is the same or worse than other ones because it's the Apple brand and because it looks nice and

00:43:41   because it matches your other Apple stuff you're also inclined to say that it's better. So those

00:43:44   two things are working towards it. I mean we know empirically performance-wise Apple's Wi-Fi routers

00:43:50   are not the best you can buy but that's just you know it's another data point for Apple to consider

00:43:56   is that they were selling an outdated product that doesn't perform as well as the composition

00:44:01   and cost more, and people were still satisfied with it essentially, if this is to be believed

00:44:06   that, you know, people were willing to do it.

00:44:08   They were willing to pay more money for a less good on paper product that in my experience

00:44:14   was actually reliable.

00:44:16   So you know, most companies would like to have a product like that, but Apple, it's

00:44:21   not along the critical path for Apple these days, so oh well.

00:44:26   - Fair enough.

00:44:27   All right, we are out of follow-up,

00:44:29   and the topic list says that the next thing

00:44:34   we need to talk about is the Nintendo Switch.

00:44:35   So Marco, do you wanna talk about scam apps

00:44:37   in the Mac App Store?

00:44:38   (laughing)

00:44:39   Just kidding, it is the time.

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00:46:55   john tell us about the nintendo switch

00:46:59   well i should ask you to

00:47:00   it's been so long since it was written about what it is did you watch the video

00:47:05   when it came out did i get you know it's a gameboy to the gameboy puppy right

00:47:09   yeah

00:47:10   you know i think it looks like a puppy or so many other people

00:47:14   yes so

00:47:15   I don't feel like, even though I'm the official summarizer in chief, or the chief summarizer

00:47:21   in chief, I don't feel like I'm the best person to summarize this because I don't really care

00:47:25   for video game consoles.

00:47:26   But what I remember from the video was, it was pretty people in pretty apartments playing

00:47:31   with this thing that could either be a handheld or could be connected to your TV.

00:47:36   And it seemed to also facilitate using, like, two controllers if you're playing by yourself,

00:47:43   So you have like one in each hand or if you had a game that supported it you could give

00:47:47   you know one of the controllers to a friend and hold on to the other and

00:47:52   When when tilted from portrait to landscape, I guess they're effectively the same thing

00:47:57   And so you could play a two-player game with what is really two halves of one controller and that was pretty cool

00:48:02   And it just I mean it seemed like a very compelling very different and interesting take on a video game console

00:48:10   But truth be told, I haven't owned a video game console since the original Wii, and I got that console for all the reasons that all the people who don't play video games got it was because it looked interesting and exciting and different.

00:48:20   So, I don't know, Marco, let me start with you. Anything you want to add to that, and then John, why don't you learn us as to what we should think about this?

00:48:27   I mean, so I have a slightly different condition in that my wife, Tiff, does play video game

00:48:33   consoles and not frequently, but there's usually like one or two great games that she

00:48:39   wants to play so badly on each system that we end up buying it anyway and then usually

00:48:43   it's just around collecting dust forever and we feel bad about it afterwards.

00:48:46   So these systems are in my house.

00:48:48   I could play them.

00:48:50   Occasionally I have, but it's basically not a part of my life.

00:48:54   I'm basically not a gamer.

00:48:56   I used to be and I would like to be still.

00:48:58   - Same here.

00:48:59   - But every time the opportunity comes up to play a game,

00:49:04   I instead look at my computer and I'm like,

00:49:06   well, I could do this instead.

00:49:07   And I just, I always wanna do other things instead.

00:49:10   I'm kind of an aspirational gamer.

00:49:12   I would like to be a gamer,

00:49:14   but in practice I never choose to be.

00:49:16   - Are you not counting Desert Golf, I guess?

00:49:18   'Cause that's a game, I'm not sure if you know that.

00:49:20   - I did play that for a while,

00:49:21   but I haven't played it recently because--

00:49:23   - I know, but you did sink a lot of time.

00:49:25   It's usually the way it works with games.

00:49:26   People don't play a game,

00:49:27   with the exception of people who play MMOs.

00:49:29   People don't play games forever and ever.

00:49:30   Like, a game comes out, they play it for a while,

00:49:32   and then they stop.

00:49:33   When Desert Golf came out,

00:49:35   you were the most heavily into it

00:49:37   of any person I actually know.

00:49:39   - Well, I was also kinda using it as Twitter methadone.

00:49:42   - Yeah, well, anyway.

00:49:43   Did you see that thing I sent you, by the way,

00:49:45   that Desert Golf ends and someone found the end?

00:49:46   - Yeah.

00:49:47   Yeah, it's almost at the 16-bit int limit, but not quite.

00:49:51   Yeah. - Yep.

00:49:51   - So basically, the Nintendo Switch

00:49:54   looks really interesting to me because I,

00:49:57   some of the things about it that I think are appealing

00:50:00   are appealing to people like me.

00:50:01   So things like, you know, like the Wii,

00:50:04   it is kind of the casual gaming system.

00:50:06   It is not like the hardcore, you know, PS7 VR plus pro.

00:50:11   I don't care about most of that stuff.

00:50:13   I know even if I, like if I got the PS5 for pro VR,

00:50:18   I know I would use it like once

00:50:20   and I would never use it again.

00:50:21   So I'm not probably gonna get that

00:50:22   unless Tieferly wants it for some reason.

00:50:24   So all the high-end video game stuff,

00:50:27   I tend to shy away from because I just don't,

00:50:30   I know I won't use it and I just don't care.

00:50:33   And all the games people wanna play on those systems

00:50:34   are all like, everyone's shooting each other

00:50:36   and calling them racist names,

00:50:38   and it's just like, I don't want that.

00:50:40   That's, yeah.

00:50:42   Most of modern mainstream gaming is really not for me

00:50:45   for a number of reasons.

00:50:46   So anyway, what I like about the Nintendo approach

00:50:51   in general is it tends to focus on just the fun gameplay

00:50:56   and the general playability and quality

00:50:59   of the games themselves,

00:51:00   not just having the most detailed graphics

00:51:03   when you're playing an uber-realistic,

00:51:05   well, when you're playing an army simulation

00:51:08   that its players think is realistic

00:51:11   and simulating killing people in the modern world.

00:51:15   Yeah, that doesn't do anything for me.

00:51:16   But the idea of racing around a rainbow racetrack,

00:51:20   shooting turtle shells at my friends.

00:51:22   That's fun, I like that, that sounds fun.

00:51:24   And so I like the theory of what Nintendo does

00:51:28   and maybe what they used to do.

00:51:30   In practice, while I've had very little experience with it

00:51:33   and almost all of which was at John's house

00:51:35   a couple years ago for his birthday, playing the Wii U,

00:51:40   it seems like Nintendo's recent efforts

00:51:44   are so much more complex than they used to be

00:51:47   that for somebody like me,

00:51:49   it doesn't really pull me in anymore.

00:51:51   I would love if I could just go buy a Nintendo system

00:51:55   and bring it home and have it be just as nice and simple

00:52:00   and playable and accessible as their older games were,

00:52:04   like in the NES and Super Nintendo era,

00:52:07   but just new games instead of just playing

00:52:10   the same old ones over and over again,

00:52:11   like I would love that.

00:52:12   I would be glad to go out and pay for that

00:52:13   and enjoy it with my family.

00:52:15   That would be fun.

00:52:16   But in practice the games now are so complex

00:52:19   'cause they've just had so many years to accumulate crap.

00:52:21   So like Mario Kart has like 50 characters now

00:52:24   and all these different crazy things happening

00:52:25   all over the track.

00:52:26   And like it's hard for me to even keep up.

00:52:29   It's kind of manic.

00:52:30   It's kind of like they've advanced even past

00:52:32   this, my level of casual gaming.

00:52:35   So when I see the Switch,

00:52:36   well when I see the video of the Switch,

00:52:38   the promo video of the Switch,

00:52:39   with all the pretty young people

00:52:40   who have nothing to do apparently

00:52:40   playing their video games all day.

00:52:43   Sorry young people.

00:52:44   When I see that, it looks appealing, it looks like,

00:52:48   I would love to have this little puppy Game Boy

00:52:51   and be able to take the controllers,

00:52:52   and have two player local multiplayer anywhere I take this.

00:52:56   That's awesome.

00:52:57   Like, the little two player, that is so great,

00:52:59   to have two player local multiplayer

00:53:01   in a portable like this.

00:53:02   That's fantastic.

00:53:03   I hope they really do well with that,

00:53:05   and I hope they really use it.

00:53:06   But, if I look at the games they've made recently,

00:53:09   it's all stuff that I think I will like unless I try it,

00:53:14   And then I realize, oh, this, yeah, I don't,

00:53:16   I don't know, this is too much for me.

00:53:17   I don't care for this.

00:53:20   So it's the kind of thing where, in theory,

00:53:24   I might really enjoy this thing,

00:53:26   but in practice I probably won't.

00:53:28   - So John, what do you think?

00:53:30   - Well, my, I am a console gamer,

00:53:35   and I do like gaming consoles,

00:53:37   and I've had a whole bunch of them.

00:53:38   What have I had?

00:53:39   I have in my house now the PS3 4 and 4 Pro and the Nintendo 64, GameCube, Wii, Wii U.

00:53:51   Did I skip one?

00:53:52   Anyway, I got a bunch of different consoles.

00:53:55   No Microsoft ones, sorry.

00:53:58   And when the Wii came out, I was disappointed that Nintendo had given up the race for console

00:54:09   console power.

00:54:11   They were no longer pursuing that, they were content to produce a console that was basically

00:54:17   previous generation hardware.

00:54:19   And I was disappointed in that because I knew what that would mean for the games that are

00:54:24   produced and I knew what it would mean for the software support and it eventually did.

00:54:29   Very quickly, games would be out for PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, and PC.

00:54:35   was a list of supported platforms you would see all the time on games. The most popular

00:54:40   games were out for those platforms. The best sellers, the AAA games as they told them.

00:54:45   No, I was gonna call them PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, PC. Never a Wii port. If there was a

00:54:52   Wii port, in the rare case, it looked terrible, it played terrible, it had disadvantages.

00:54:58   Because you just can't make a cross-platform game targeting three platforms that are sort

00:55:03   of on the same level, and then one platform that is an entire generation behind.

00:55:09   That didn't end up hurting the Wii, because the Wii appealed to all the cases of the world

00:55:12   who were like, "I want to waggle a remote around and bowl too."

00:55:14   And it was fun, right?

00:55:16   And it was cool and interesting and got tons more people to buy Nintendo console and buy

00:55:21   Nintendo console games and play them and have a good time.

00:55:25   And so the Wii was a success as a product.

00:55:28   But for me, who was just a plain old boring console gamer of the old stripe, not of the

00:55:33   new I'm gonna bowl my living room stripe but the old style. It was interesting. I mostly

00:55:39   liked the fact that I could play GameCube games on it still because it was nice to have

00:55:42   backward compatibility which you know didn't get on the the PS3 or whatever. And I enjoyed

00:55:49   those games too and I enjoyed the Nintendo exclusive games as the first party games as

00:55:55   I always do because they were all very good you know Nintendo does a good job with that

00:55:58   software. They're not too complex for me. So I was, I liked the the expansion of those games into the

00:56:05   new platform, although I did play Zelda on the GameCube instead of the Wii on purpose because

00:56:09   the controls were better on the GameCube one than on the Wii version. But I give that one a pass,

00:56:14   because like, all right, well, if you have to do this, if it's going to be a successful product,

00:56:17   I'd rather have a successful product than an unsuccessful one, because I want them to be

00:56:20   successful so they continue making the games I like. And I did like the games that they made.

00:56:25   The Wii U was a similar thing. Previous generation hardware, right, so it's better than the Wii,

00:56:32   but there's still basically one entire generation behind if you want to measure it in terms of

00:56:36   performance. Wasn't going to get the ports for all the PS4 and Xbox One games, which are its

00:56:42   supposed contemporaries more or less, so you're still going to see games that were PS4, Xbox One,

00:56:47   and PC. That's all you're going to see. And it had a novelty factor with the second screen,

00:56:54   and also supported all the Wii's motion control stuff on top of that.

00:56:57   In fact, there were so many different control options, probably too many.

00:57:00   But it wasn't as successful as the Wii. People weren't as interested in the novelty this time.

00:57:07   The Wii stuff was interesting to them because they had already seen all that,

00:57:11   and if they had been like Casey, bought it, seen it, played it, and then, you know, it goes away,

00:57:16   they want something new, and the new thing of the second screen didn't appeal to them,

00:57:19   because it was like Marco said it seemed more complicated even more complicated than just using

00:57:25   a controller you know the Wii seemed less complicated than that you just stand in front

00:57:28   of the tv with thing looks like a remote and wave your hands around like an idiot right that but

00:57:32   this was now i hold this thing with all these buttons and there's a screen here but there's

00:57:35   also a screen there but sometimes they're combined it was too much um the first party games for Wii U

00:57:41   have been really good Nintendo's games are really good i think Mario Kart 8 is one of the best

00:57:46   entries in the Mario Kart series. I don't think it's too manic. I think it's about equally manic

00:57:51   as the Nintendo 64 version that Marco probably liked, but you know, I think it's a great entry

00:57:58   in the series. I think almost all Nintendo first party games for Wii U are really good,

00:58:02   especially the ones that sort of harken back to the 2D Marios where they're technically 3D,

00:58:06   but the freedom of motion is decreased. So it's a simpler game to get into than, you know,

00:58:11   a quote unquote full-fledged Mario like you know Sunshine or Galaxy or Mario 64.

00:58:16   But it wasn't a success. The Wii U was not a success. It was they stopped manufacturing it,

00:58:21   stopped selling it way before the normal active lifetime of a console. So the Wii U is no more.

00:58:29   If you can find it cheap, it is if you really can find it cheap, the first party games are

00:58:34   absolutely worth playing and you should get them. But I would say the Wii U is a failure of a

00:58:38   console, you know, almost as much of a failure as the Wii was a success. And so the successor to that,

00:58:45   the hastily readied successor, because if you're going to can the Wii U, you have to have something

00:58:50   to replace it, is the Switch thing. And the rumors were for long before even the Wii U was canceled,

00:58:56   that Nintendo's next console was going to be some kind of hybrid thing that was both portable and

00:59:02   regular. And as soon as those rumors came out, you're like, "Well, for the third time in a row,

00:59:06   Nintendo is not going to try to make a gaming console whose power is comparable to

00:59:12   The current generation of consoles which at this point are the like the point five releases

00:59:18   So you got the ps4 Pro which is not really the next generation PlayStation

00:59:22   It's not the PlayStation 5 but it's more powerful than the plain old PlayStation 4 and Xbox has that Scorpio thing

00:59:27   I forget if it has an official name yet. It's coming out next year or whenever

00:59:31   That's gonna be even more powerful than the Xbox one but backward compatible, you know

00:59:35   So that the other console makers are doing this half generation thing

00:59:38   But either way the switch is not going to be their contemporary in terms of power

00:59:42   So they're interesting. It is a hybrid if it's hybrid and portable

00:59:46   How can it be how can it be?

00:59:48   Comfortable and power to something that you plug into the wall and it stays plugged in the whole time

00:59:52   That is the size of a lunchbox. This is small. It's portable

00:59:55   The screen is right in it is going to be under power this thing uses an Nvidia Tegra processor, which is a mobile thing

01:00:00   I think it will be more powerful than the Wii U because it would be pretty hard not to be

01:00:05   But I don't think it's even up to the power level of the PlayStation 4. What does that mean?

01:00:10   For the third generation there will be games that are available for PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 4 Pro for Xbox one and the Scorpio thing

01:00:17   for PC and

01:00:19   You won't see the Nintendo switch on that list right so it will continue to operate in the world where?

01:00:25   It doesn't get the first the the triple-a titles from the big third-party vendors the multi-platform

01:00:30   Big titles are in general not gonna be in all of them if they are and it's gonna be a cut-down version

01:00:35   Well, but isn't that kind of like a feature not a bug like to me

01:00:39   It's like, you know if you want to have like, you know

01:00:41   Call of desensitized violence 17 like is that really the kind of game that you want to play on a switch?

01:00:46   I think your view of the console game world is very narrow compared to the actuality of it

01:00:52   For example, I would say one of the games that if Tiff hasn't already played, I think

01:00:56   she will enjoy, is Uncharted 4, which is very, very far from that "have a bunch of 12-year-olds

01:01:05   call you racist names while you shoot people with realistic military guns" stereotype

01:01:09   that you are putting in it, even though it is a multi-million dollar AAA game with huge

01:01:13   budgets.

01:01:14   It's not cross-platform in this case, it's platform exclusive.

01:01:16   We might actually have that.

01:01:19   Which game came in the bundle that we bought the PS4 with so that Tiff could play Fallout?

01:01:22   You probably have Uncharted 4, but if you sit and watch her play through it, I think

01:01:26   you'll--

01:01:27   I think it's still in the wrapping.

01:01:28   I think you will-- if you-- if she decides to play through it and you watch her play

01:01:31   through it, I think you'll be thoroughly convinced that despite having the trappings of, you

01:01:36   know, in movie parlance, a big-budget movie, it's got all-- it costs a lot of money to

01:01:40   make, it's got super-realistic graphics, everything, you know, like, it's that type of game, exactly

01:01:46   that type, but I think content-wise, it is not what you expect it to be.

01:01:50   And that's not even going into considering the games that are in genres that you're not

01:01:54   even thinking about and weird Japanese things that are, you know, like, anyway, I think

01:01:58   is much more diverse than you think is.

01:01:59   But no, for someone who is a con—

01:02:00   Also, it's a real-time follow-up.

01:02:02   ATP Tipster, who knows everything.

01:02:04   Apparently, he says that I have the collection, not four, one, two, and three.

01:02:09   Oh.

01:02:10   Well, anyway, all the games are—

01:02:11   I love that I'm getting a rumor about my own game collection from ATP Tipster, which

01:02:14   is probably correct.

01:02:15   Yeah, you should look at—I don't know what bundle you bought.

01:02:17   I haven't been to your house to see which thing you have but there's much more variety there, but either way I like

01:02:23   to have available to me the menu of

01:02:27   The best games and I don't play war games either. I don't play any realistic shooters. I don't play any military shooters

01:02:33   I also don't play any sports games and you know, like I have genres that I like too, but I

01:02:37   Would prefer to have the menu of all the big important cross cross cross cross which is one of the reasons I have a PlayStation

01:02:44   Also as I brought this up many times

01:02:47   Power, console power, computing power, is not just like, "Oh, I'm just going to make

01:02:51   them look prettier and it's totally pointless and I wish they would concentrate on the gameplay."

01:02:55   More power gives the ability to make different types of games.

01:02:59   There are gameplay advances that are only possible due to power.

01:03:03   3D is one of them.

01:03:04   If you kept making 2D hardware and just let it control more and more sprites, you'd never

01:03:08   get Mario 64.

01:03:10   If you never crank up the computing power and programmable shaders and everything, you

01:03:15   don't get a game that looks like Ico or Shadow of the Colossus. If you can't do

01:03:18   large crowds you don't get Dead Rising. Like, it affects gameplay and like making

01:03:23   things thinner. You're like, "Well, do I need something that's incrementally more

01:03:26   powerful? It's not that big of a deal? Well, who do I care if I can

01:03:29   get like slightly bigger crowds or slightly longer draw distance?" If you opt

01:03:32   out of that or are always lagging behind, you won't be able to

01:03:37   make that next leap. So Nintendo is always one behind on what they can do.

01:03:40   At this point, as we were talking about in the last show, some

01:03:44   Some people have been fantasizing about what it would be like if clone makers could make

01:03:49   Macs because, like, boy, if someone was willing and able to make, like, the Mac of your dreams

01:03:54   with the features that you want or whatever and Apple let them do it.

01:03:58   For many years now, basically since the introduction of the Wii, I've been thinking about, can

01:04:02   you imagine what a Zelda game would be like in a PS4 Pro?

01:04:04   Can you, you know, same developers, like, made by Nintendo because they know how to

01:04:08   make great Zelda games that I enjoy, people who like Zelda games, they, you know, make,

01:04:12   right?

01:04:13   available to them, the console power. And it used to be, well, you can't do that because

01:04:17   Nintendo makes its games in harmony with the control schemes. Which is still true, but

01:04:24   at this point, if they're always going to lag behind on hardware, it's like I'm almost

01:04:27   willing to sacrifice some of their control innovation, especially after something like

01:04:31   the Wii U where their control innovation didn't really work out that way. Like Star Fox on

01:04:35   the Wii U, that's an interesting control scheme, but I'm not sure it makes Star Fox better.

01:04:42   And even on the Wii, for traditional types of games like Zelda, I preferred to play it

01:04:45   on the GameCube.

01:04:47   Although Skyward Sword obviously was a thing that would only work on the Wii, and I'm glad

01:04:50   I played that game, even though it has some issues.

01:04:53   Anyway, so the Switch, not pursuing that.

01:04:57   In exchange for not pursuing it, it has more than the Wii U does.

01:05:00   The Wii U did not pursue power, did not have the novelty to get people to buy it, but it

01:05:06   didn't have anything.

01:05:08   The only thing it had to offer was, "Hey, you've got a second screen, and there's these

01:05:10   lots of different control screens, which I think was interesting, but ultimately wasn't

01:05:13   enough. The Switch has something to offer, which like you said, Marco, is you can take

01:05:16   it away from your TV and carry it with you. Like, that is a pretty big selling point.

01:05:22   And if Nintendo is going to opt out of the console war, as they, you know, the console

01:05:26   power war, basically to be in their own market, like, we are not selling a thing that's the

01:05:30   same as the Xbox and the PlayStation, we're selling a different thing. And you can tell

01:05:34   it's different, because you can't pick those up and walk away with them. They don't have

01:05:36   a screen on them, right? It is a different thing. And so then you don't have an expectation

01:05:42   that a multiplatform game is going to be on all of them. And now the question is, where

01:05:46   do they find, do they find a place in the gaming market where they can fit that is not

01:05:52   competing with Microsoft and Sony over there making the consoles, not competing with the

01:05:57   PC gamers, also not competing with the phone and tablet games. Is there a place somewhere

01:06:03   like that's not one of those places that's making games that you can use portably, but

01:06:09   also on your TV, but aren't console games and aren't fancy like PC games, but also aren't

01:06:14   casual like mobile games.

01:06:16   It's a strange place.

01:06:18   And I think the Switch has the ability to potentially carve out that appeal.

01:06:23   And I think actually the thing that gives it the power to find a market is both that

01:06:28   it has an advantage to the customers, but also because it's less powerful.

01:06:32   and this was true of the Wii U and the Wii and it wasn't enough to save them, but because it's less powerful

01:06:36   There is the potential to attract

01:06:38   Games that are I don't know if there's a word for it, but like not triple-a

01:06:44   But how about double-a games or just a games basically games made on a much smaller budget because the assets will be you know

01:06:50   Fewer polygons lower resolution textures like it's still there still hyphen definition, right?

01:06:55   But in theory that so the theory goes you can make a game more cheaply for the switch than you can

01:07:01   for the PlayStation 4 or the Xbox one

01:07:04   Because there is lower fidelity and lower cost to art and the assets and all that other stuff

01:07:09   And so if there's an interesting game idea that doesn't they can never get the multi-million dollar budget behind it

01:07:15   Maybe that will appear on the switch

01:07:17   Why wouldn't that game appear on iOS? Maybe it would and that's bad for Nintendo, but maybe also it's a type of game that

01:07:24   really

01:07:26   expects a traditional controller and you can't put a game on iOS that demands the controller and

01:07:31   apparently you can do it on Apple TV now, but no one cares because no one games on Apple TV and you know,

01:07:35   Honestly, Nintendo switch gonna is gonna probably be more powerful and more capable in a much better gaming system than the Apple TV or any other

01:07:41   TV connected box

01:07:42   so I

01:07:44   I'm not optimistic about the switches chances, but I'm not as pessimistic as I was about the Wii U

01:07:49   If it was gonna do anything

01:07:51   It was either come back and try to compete with micro and Sony and they're not doing that

01:07:54   and then to be clear that would be very dangerous and difficult and they kind of understand

01:07:58   why they didn't do it or find a new market and this is their attempt to find a new market

01:08:02   and just staring at it like it's not up to me what I think of it and it's not up to Marco

01:08:06   what he thinks of it, it's en masse.

01:08:08   Like you know you have to see is this a thing that people want to buy right because people

01:08:15   already have they can already play desert golf they can already play angry birds on

01:08:18   their phones right and they already have these other consoles and they already have PCs is

01:08:22   you know, is Nintendo slowly becoming the company that sells products only to people

01:08:31   who want to play first-party Nintendo games? And if so, is that a viable business? And

01:08:36   if it's a viable business, is it a viable business that supports the creation of hardware,

01:08:39   or will they inevitably end up merely being a game developer for other people's hardware,

01:08:45   which no one wants to see happen, but as the Nintendo that we knew seems to be fading from

01:08:49   view and as Nintendo is forced to, I'm not going to say pimp out its properties, but

01:08:54   forced to expand its intellectual property into new realms by, you know, making mobile

01:08:59   games like Mario run and having, and Pokémon Go, by teaming up with Universal to make a

01:09:04   theme park, doing things that it previously hadn't done because, look, they have very

01:09:08   valuable intellectual property, and if you want to make some money, you can make money

01:09:12   by giving Universal your characters and having them make them in a theme park. You can make

01:09:15   money by making a mobile version of Mario, because it's going to sell a lot of copies

01:09:19   just based on the name. But as they do that, the Nintendo that was, the Nintendo that made

01:09:25   Mario 64 and the controller and that whole console, you know, to usher in a new age of

01:09:31   3D gaming, all the piece hardware and software, you know, and gameplay all together, that

01:09:37   one is fading from view and it makes me just think more and more about the idea of Nintendo

01:09:44   a Zelda game for PS4 and stop selling its own hardware entirely. Like if they keep trying,

01:09:49   you know, if they had one success and one failure, the third one will kind of be the tiebreaker.

01:09:54   If they didn't do it with this one, what's the next generation move? Is the next generation to

01:09:58   say no more hardware entirely, or do they go back to fighting with Microsoft Nintendo for

01:10:03   with real full power consoles, or has that ship sailed? I don't know. But anyway, I'm buying a

01:10:09   Nintendo Switch because I want to play the next Mario and Zelda game, as I always do, and whatever

01:10:13   whatever other weird game surprises me, because there's always one free Nintendo platform.

01:10:17   And when I buy a console and play only two or three games on it, I don't feel bad or

01:10:21   guilty.

01:10:22   I feel like it's money well spent, because, you know, that's the amount of time I have

01:10:25   to invest, and I'm totally willing to buy a console.

01:10:29   In fact, I've bought two consoles now, two PlayStation 4 consoles, the vast majority

01:10:34   which have been playing a single game, Destiny, although they did play Uncharted 4 and a few

01:10:38   other things on it.

01:10:40   And I'm fine with that, but it doesn't really matter.

01:10:43   I'm not the customer Apple is going for, and neither is Marco.

01:10:46   I think Nintendo continues to go for Casey, which is someone who's not really into games,

01:10:51   but maybe they'll buy this thing just because it looks cool.

01:10:56   And we'll see.

01:10:57   We'll see what the sales numbers look like.

01:10:58   We'll see what the third-party software support looks like, because third-party software support

01:11:02   for the Wii U just basically disappeared after everyone realized that no one was buying them,

01:11:06   and you can't port your existing titles, and it's not worth making a custom title because

01:11:09   there's not enough of them out in the wild and no one knows what to do with that controller

01:11:13   anyway. So I'm not buying one of these. Doesn't Nintendo, I mean, Jon, you know better than

01:11:18   I do, doesn't Nintendo still do well in portables? That's something I don't know because I haven't

01:11:24   been following this closely. The question is, do they continue to sell the 3DS? Or do

01:11:28   they not? A lot of the stories I see about the Switch is like, "Oh, this is great," because

01:11:31   Nintendo being a small company had difficulty making software. Like, you know, for example,

01:11:36   Wii U was a long wait between first-party titles and third parties were not filling the gap.

01:11:40   And that's, you know, if Nintendo didn't have to spend some of its resources making 3DS games

01:11:44   and some of its resources making Wii U games, instead they had teams just making games for

01:11:49   their one and only platform that happens to be portable as well as television connected,

01:11:53   won't that solve that problem? But on the other hand, I, you know, I haven't seen any

01:11:57   official announcement that they're going to stop selling the 2DS and 3DS, and those are still

01:12:02   lower-powered devices that are going to get way better battery life than this thing. And, you know,

01:12:05   So as far as I've been able to determine, I admit that I have not been following this closely,

01:12:08   I'm sure we'll get follow-up about it. I think they're going to sell the Switch and continue

01:12:12   to sell the 3DS, at least for some period of time. So I don't see that they're going to get the big

01:12:18   win where it's like, concentrate everything on just this one console. In theory, they could. In

01:12:21   theory, they could say, "This is it. From now on, it's Nintendo Switch, and all our other console

01:12:26   lines will fade out, and we will put all our wood behind this one arrow." But I'm not sure that's

01:12:33   that's advisable at this point.

01:12:34   And what if the Switch is a dud,

01:12:37   and you are fading out on the 3DS,

01:12:41   then what have you even got left?

01:12:42   So I don't think that's gonna happen.

01:12:44   I haven't read about it happening,

01:12:45   and if it is, someone will send us an email.

01:12:47   - Well, maybe this is the hedge, right?

01:12:49   Like maybe the Switch is,

01:12:52   maybe right now they plan to launch the Switch,

01:12:55   keep 3DS around as kind of like a fallback plan,

01:12:58   and then if the Switch does well,

01:13:00   then you basically replace the 3DS.

01:13:02   then you just continue to 3DS and move everybody

01:13:04   over to the Switch.

01:13:05   'Cause to me, if you look at what Nintendo is good at,

01:13:09   where they succeed, and if you look at what holes

01:13:12   are just in the marketplace today,

01:13:14   I think you're right, it is worth questioning.

01:13:17   Does a hole exist for a portable system

01:13:20   that isn't a tablet, sort of, that also is not a 3DS

01:13:24   and that also is not an Xbox or PS4?

01:13:27   And I think the answer there is maybe,

01:13:29   because the tablet gaming has basically shown

01:13:34   that a whole lot of people want something

01:13:36   approximately that size to play games on,

01:13:38   either for themselves or for their kids.

01:13:40   And actual computing tablets of what we think of today,

01:13:44   basically iPads and occasionally cheap

01:13:46   Amazon Android tablets that somehow cost

01:13:48   less than a cable from Apple,

01:13:50   they used to be really good for gaming,

01:13:52   well the Amazon ones kinda never were,

01:13:53   but the Apple ones used to be good for gaming,

01:13:56   until App Store economics kind of ruined iOS games

01:13:59   on a pretty grand scale.

01:14:01   And it's to the point now where it is very, very hard

01:14:05   to find games that I want my kid to play on iOS

01:14:09   that aren't full of ads or in-app purchase garbage.

01:14:11   And I'm willing to pay, but it doesn't matter

01:14:13   because it's not even an option anymore.

01:14:15   So basically, I can see a potential market here

01:14:20   where this is the system that you buy either for yourself

01:14:25   or for your kids if you slash they want

01:14:29   a really good portable gaming experience.

01:14:32   Because console games, that's kind of like desktop computers

01:14:35   that's like the high end of the market,

01:14:37   you're gonna have the real enthusiasts

01:14:38   going to like the big TV connected consoles, that's fine.

01:14:41   But I think almost everyone else just wants a handheld thing

01:14:43   and I think tablets have proven that.

01:14:46   The 3DS obviously, as far as I know,

01:14:48   the great success that line has had

01:14:50   also helps to prove this.

01:14:52   but basically people want handheld gaming now,

01:14:56   for the most part, most people want that.

01:14:58   But it's really hard to get good quality games

01:15:02   on the App Store and on the Play Store

01:15:05   and whatever Amazon's garbage store is named.

01:15:08   And so the way console markets are set up,

01:15:12   the way Nintendo would be set up for this,

01:15:14   you could actually have good games

01:15:16   because you could actually charge 40, 50 bucks for them.

01:15:19   And it wouldn't be a market where

01:15:22   when you release a game, two weeks later,

01:15:25   a billion people have cloned your game

01:15:27   and it's stealing all your sales for free

01:15:28   'cause that isn't even how console licensing works.

01:15:30   People can't even do things that quickly

01:15:32   and you can't get to market that quickly.

01:15:34   So the way consoles are set up is more amenable, I guess,

01:15:39   or more facilitating of higher quality games.

01:15:43   And they don't have to rely on gambling mechanics.

01:15:46   They don't have to rely on tricks and psychology

01:15:48   to get you to pay for in-app purchases over and over again.

01:15:51   it isn't that kind of game.

01:15:53   It's a much higher quality experience.

01:15:56   And so if people want good games in handheld systems,

01:16:01   Nintendo I think has a pretty good shot with this.

01:16:05   And ultimately I think people do want that.

01:16:07   And I think the tablet world and the mobile world

01:16:11   have largely failed that in recent years

01:16:13   as the economics have gotten so brutal

01:16:15   that everyone is forced to make really crappy games

01:16:17   for the most part.

01:16:19   I don't really see how this could ever really work.

01:16:22   And the reason is that--

01:16:26   so we talk a lot, if not the three of us, then our industry

01:16:29   talks a lot about how the PC, as we think of it, is going

01:16:33   away, not just a Windows machine, any sort of computer

01:16:36   that sits on a desktop is going away.

01:16:38   The three of us don't want that to happen, and it probably

01:16:41   won't ever truly happen.

01:16:43   But for an average consumer, the desktop is going away, and

01:16:47   even the laptop.

01:16:48   I mean Aaron has a MacBook Air that yes has had water spilled on it

01:16:52   But he's running right now, and she barely uses it compared to her phone, and that's just one data point

01:16:58   but I think that's one of many that are similar and if we treat the

01:17:01   traditional consoles of like the PlayStations and the Xboxes of the world as you know that the

01:17:07   PCs or perhaps even like the PC is the PC of gaming you know like you keep mentioning the markers have the same thing oh the

01:17:14   High end of gaming is consoles all the PC gamers are just rolling their eyes, but anyway continue

01:17:17   That's a fair point. That's a fair point. Yeah, I forgot about PC gamers.

01:17:21   Well, that, I'm not even gonna go there, but let's just take that as an aside,

01:17:27   because it's going to ruin my whole point here.

01:17:29   The point I'm driving at is, you know, the super hardcore will perhaps have a PC game. The

01:17:35   reasonably hardcore will have like an Xbox or PlayStation.

01:17:38   Everyone else will probably have their phones and their tablets, probably their phones.

01:17:43   I don't feel like I understand that yes, this is unique and it's a different spot than either a phone or a PC or a

01:17:51   Traditional console, but there's no freaking way that this is gonna work. I mean how well is the surface book really working?

01:17:58   I don't think it's working that well, and I feel like the switch is like the surface book or the surface in general of

01:18:03   The video gaming industry and and I will give you guys a chance to refute that but another thing

01:18:08   I wanted to ask, I guess, Jon more than anyone, or maybe Marco since this used to be your

01:18:13   bag, what, how do we feel Sega has done since they abandoned hardware and are now doing

01:18:18   only--

01:18:19   Jon Streeter That's always the cautionary tale that everyone

01:18:21   says, "No, Nintendo, don't do that because just look at Sega." But I don't, you know,

01:18:25   Sega did not have the kind of IP and talent that Nintendo has.

01:18:29   Jon Streeter Sega had one good successful system that was

01:18:33   well-timed and well-planned in the market. It was the Genesis.

01:18:36   Jon Streeter Yeah.

01:18:37   Every other Sega hardware release had some kind of massive flaw, whether it was bad market

01:18:43   timing, weird architecture, too much complexity, too expensive, like literally every other

01:18:49   Sega platform, they all, yes even your beloved Dreamcast, Dreamcast people, like that was

01:18:54   bad market timing, like it was, everything that say, every piece of hardware Sega ever

01:19:00   released was badly timed or had some other major flaw that held it back from succeeding,

01:19:05   except the Genesis.

01:19:06   That was the only time it ever worked.

01:19:08   So I really, I don't consider Sega a great example because they, like, it's almost like

01:19:14   they just kind of lucked out with the Genesis and that kind of fueled them the rest of the

01:19:18   way, but everything else they did was like ham-fisted and wrong.

01:19:21   Yeah, I see, I see which point.

01:19:23   This is like, if you ditch hardware, what makes you think you're not going to end up

01:19:26   like the next Sega?

01:19:27   Because they, regardless of how good their hardware was, eventually they stopped making

01:19:31   it because like basically consolidation and they were the weakest player and you know,

01:19:34   so on and so forth.

01:19:36   they became software only, because Sega made good games, you know, Dreamcast had really

01:19:39   good games, which is one of the reasons people always say that it was a good console, even

01:19:42   though it totally wasn't because the controller was gross. But they've made lots of good games.

01:19:47   And even, you know, for Super Monkey Ball, even for Nintendo's consoles, like, it's not

01:19:51   like they lost the ability to make good software. It's just that they're a pale shadow of what

01:19:57   they want. When they were one of the platforms, it was like, you're in there, you're in the

01:20:00   race, you're, you know, even if you're in third place, whatever, you're in the mix,

01:20:04   right? And when you're just a software maker, you live and die based on your software things

01:20:07   and it becomes more like a hit-driven business and they just didn't have the solid sort of

01:20:14   – it's like the Star Wars franchise. It would take a lot to screw that up. You could

01:20:21   make three, just hypothetically, three excreble movies and still the Star Wars brand is very

01:20:26   strong and is worth a lot of money, right? Sega and Nintendo has – has Mario, has Zelda,

01:20:33   Metroid has so many franchises, so many franchises that have enough great games

01:20:36   and enough goodwill and enough consistency in the games, even though it's

01:20:40   a stinker every once in a while like Other M, Metroid, which really was

01:20:43   outsourced to Team Ninja, anyway, so many franchises to lean on

01:20:48   that if they just cranked on those as a software only vendor they could last for

01:20:54   a long time just making the next good 3d Mario game, the next Zelda game, the next

01:20:59   Metroid game, the next Pokemon game, the next Smash Brothers game. Like, they have just

01:21:04   so much intellectual property, whereas Sega, well, they tried making the next Sonic game

01:21:08   for a long, long time, and just their average went way, way down. And there are other things,

01:21:12   you know, you've got--

01:21:13   Like, they kept making garbage that wasn't really a Sonic game.

01:21:15   Yeah. I know. Well, you got Shenmue, and you got, you know, all the Virtua series. You

01:21:19   got--oh, you got--they have lots of franchises, too, but none of them are--

01:21:22   I played Sonic Spinball, Jon. Sonic Spinball.

01:21:24   Yeah. Well, they made Metroid Pinball, too, you know, so there's, you know, there's a

01:21:28   lot of free anyway I feel like Nintendo has a stronger stable and they have more

01:21:32   consistency making those games now giving up hardware is a big deal though

01:21:36   because that means you're never going to have the ability to do a hardware

01:21:40   software synergy on the level of the Wii or and Wii Sports or Nintendo 64 and

01:21:47   Mario 64 like all those things that you could do or I would argue the awesome

01:21:51   GameCube controller and all the games that they work with that like you know

01:21:54   you won't be able to do that if you're not a hardware maker so it's a big

01:21:57   sacrifice but I think the reason Nintendo won't be another Sega is they're better at

01:22:02   making games and they have more bankable properties that even if they mess up a few of them in

01:22:08   the same way that Star Wars is still bankable, a bunch of stinker Mario games are not going

01:22:13   to make it so that A) Nintendo loses the ability to make that and B) they're not going to sell

01:22:18   so poorly that people will stop buying Mario games. Because there have been stinker Mario

01:22:23   games, or ones that people like less than 11 and same thing with Metroid and all the

01:22:26   other franchises and arguably even Zelda. Not Stinker, but like less beloved, let's

01:22:31   say. And yet still people clamor for the next one because the average is high enough. Now

01:22:37   the thing that Marco's getting with the Switch and the App Store, I was thinking when he

01:22:39   was talking about that, is that console games are more Apple-like in the old, in all senses

01:22:47   of the world, than the App Store. Because the App Store, like you said, is filled with

01:22:50   crap and junk and scams and things—

01:22:52   They're locked down in 40 bucks.

01:22:55   And things that are not nice.

01:23:00   Normally the whole thing with Apple is you pay more money for a nicer experience.

01:23:03   And the App Store is the opposite of that.

01:23:05   You pay less money for a worse experience.

01:23:06   And consoles, games are alike.

01:23:08   You pay more money, 60 bucks, for a nicer experience.

01:23:11   It's not festooned with ads and in-app purchases.

01:23:14   That's creeping into the console world with downloadable content, as they call it, and

01:23:19   microtransactions and stuff like that.

01:23:20   But in general, if you had to compare them, which one of these is more like the Apple

01:23:24   experience. It's the one where you pay more for, like you said, the proprietary thing,

01:23:29   but that you get a nicer experience. But the Switch, here's the problem the Switch has

01:23:33   in terms of trying to tread that middle ground. First of all, even though this is totally

01:23:39   not finished hardware, the Switch is almost certain to be the Atari Lynx affordable gaming

01:23:44   systems and that that battery cannot last a long time as compared to a 3DS, because

01:23:48   come on, that's a big screen, it is way more powerful,

01:23:52   power hungry processor in there.

01:23:54   This thing is not gonna last as long as a--

01:23:56   - I mean, I don't know how long the 3DS lasts,

01:23:58   but it looks like it's basically

01:24:00   like a souped up tablet, right?

01:24:01   So if you look at, what can an iPad get,

01:24:06   especially if you made it a little bit thicker?

01:24:07   - It is thicker, but it's playing games constantly.

01:24:11   - Yeah, but I think, it wouldn't surprise me

01:24:15   if battery life was better than you expect.

01:24:17   Well, anyway, it's got the battery life problem, but the more serious thing is the Switch is,

01:24:22   like, if you're looking for something in between the two, this is not the problem of the Switch,

01:24:27   this is the advantage of the Switch for people like me, the games that are available on the

01:24:30   Switch are, for the most part, going to be full-fledged console games, the only difference

01:24:37   being is that you can't do anything that couldn't be run in last generation hardware.

01:24:40   So they keep showing Zelda on the Switch.

01:24:43   Zelda is not a casual gamer game.

01:24:46   It is a big, sprawling, complicated game

01:24:48   that probably it would help

01:24:50   if you have played other Zelda games in the past.

01:24:51   The people who are waiting for that game,

01:24:53   the millions of people who are gonna pay for it,

01:24:55   know what they're getting,

01:24:56   and what they're getting is more complicated

01:24:58   than almost any iOS game that ever been made.

01:25:00   I know there are Zelda clones for iOS,

01:25:01   but in general, tablet games do not have the wherewithal

01:25:05   or budgets or inclination to be that complicated,

01:25:10   if only because you can't sell them for 60 bucks, right?

01:25:13   Almost every game on the Switch, even the simpler ones,

01:25:16   are more complicated because they can be.

01:25:19   Like they're more like console games

01:25:21   than they are like phone or tablet games.

01:25:23   So you've got this thing that looks like,

01:25:24   you know, saying, oh, this is a better version

01:25:26   of tablet gaming.

01:25:27   But I think there will be very few games that are,

01:25:31   like you're not gonna see cut the rope for the Switch

01:25:34   for 60 bucks.

01:25:35   Maybe you'll see cut the rope for the Switch,

01:25:37   like literally cut the rope for the Switch,

01:25:39   from their little downloadable store,

01:25:40   which by the way, Nintendo was terrible at selling things

01:25:43   electronically through the downloadable stores? Maybe you'll see that, but I don't think that

01:25:48   type of thing is going to support this. This thing is going to play essentially console

01:25:53   games and one of its selling points is "hey" quote unquote "full-fledged console games

01:25:58   on the go" and that is totally aimed at the market of people who might buy a console,

01:26:06   but you know this will be cheaper than them, right? And you know, but are intrigued by

01:26:09   this and I don't think it's gonna pull people from the tablet and phone gaming world because

01:26:13   they just want desert golfing or cut the rope or angry birds or something that is way simpler

01:26:18   or flappy birds for crying out loud.

01:26:19   Something that is way simpler than like if someone gets Nintendo Switch thinking it's

01:26:23   like you know the thing and they see like Zelda advertised and they get Zelda they're

01:26:27   gonna be in so far over their head they're gonna be like whoa whoa whoa I just I don't

01:26:32   understand even how to make forward progress in this game and how it's just that is too

01:26:36   much for them. That is because that is going to be that's the experience the Switch is providing and

01:26:41   that's its appeal to all the customers. So I still think they're shopping amongst the people who

01:26:47   maybe you already have an Xbox and maybe you already have a PlayStation 4 but you're looking

01:26:51   for a second console. Nintendo has been staking out the second console market for three generations

01:26:56   now. Okay you've got your real console but wouldn't you like something fun and quirky and has the

01:27:00   ability to play the first party properties that you come to know and love and in general

01:27:04   Mario Kart is just as fun as you imagined it has always been and if you're into Zelda we have one of those too and Mario games are you know the plain old Mario platformers are fun.

01:27:13   Like that's what I think they're staking out with this and the new appeal is you've got one console but you can't pick that one up and bring it with you so if you're a console gamer buy this one and now you can play console games on the go and by the way get a bunch of unique properties.

01:27:25   I have a hard time seeing them pulling people from the App Store, even though, as Marco

01:27:29   said, the experience is so much better than the App Store games where it's just filled

01:27:33   with scams and traps and in-app purchases and everything.

01:27:36   I don't see how this is going to change Nintendo's fate in any way, shape, or form.

01:27:40   And I mean, what was it, the PlayStation Vita, whatever that portable one was?

01:27:44   I've seen like three of them in my life.

01:27:46   They made like a phone, if memory serves, that had like a quasi-PlayStation branding

01:27:50   that played like these video games.

01:27:53   I just, I don't know.

01:27:55   I admire it. I definitely think it's clever and I think it's very Nintendo and I admire it, but I don't see

01:28:01   how this is going to be a blockbuster because it serves a non-existent market. It's not going to serve the hardcore gamers,

01:28:08   it's not going to serve the people who have a pretty darn fine video gaming

01:28:13   platform in their pocket. Do they? Yeah, you don't think that an iOS device?

01:28:19   I always said, like the games are cruddier and filled with in-app purchases, and they're not as sophisticated.

01:28:24   One of the things you can do with this type of thing is bring people over who like say if someone who grew up playing

01:28:30   Phone games and never really considered themselves a gamer

01:28:32   but buys this thing on a locker because it's popular or it has some traction in the market and finds that

01:28:38   They had never been presented with a more sophisticated game like a Zelda or a full-fledged Mario and it turns out they actually kind of

01:28:45   Like that type of game

01:28:46   This is a smoother slope into it because it will be cheaper than the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox one

01:28:50   especially the pro versions right and it does have a novelty factor and they can carry it around with them and everything so

01:28:55   There's some hope that you can get new people on board with this

01:28:58   Like that being being or being a second console. You've got one of the other consoles

01:29:04   This one is cheaper and interesting in a way that those aren't and you kind of like Nintendo games

01:29:09   anyway

01:29:09   because you remember playing them on your SNES or whatever the hell and you just decide to get it like

01:29:14   You mentioned this not changing Nintendo's fate

01:29:17   Well through the Wii, Wii U and this thing

01:29:20   Nintendo has had its ups and downs. Wii is up and Wii U is down, but it's not going out of business

01:29:26   They have a lot of money

01:29:28   They've been on the upswing

01:29:29   Since even mentioning that they're gonna field some of their properties on iOS because people assume they're gonna sell billion copies that and they probably

01:29:35   will just based on the strength of the the

01:29:38   IP but the strength of that IP the reason they're gonna sell a billion copies of Mario Run or whatever the hell it's called for iOS

01:29:45   is because people love and recognize Mario, right?

01:29:48   And people love and recognize Mario because he was a star of a long-running series of games,

01:29:53   all of which were really, really good and fun.

01:29:55   And that means they, you know, to sustain that,

01:29:58   you have to continue to make really, really good, fun things with those properties,

01:30:02   otherwise they stop being valuable.

01:30:04   And the Switch is the continuation of that.

01:30:06   Does it mean that it's going to reverse Nintendo's fortunes?

01:30:09   Like, what if they just continue along the same as they've been for the entire life of the Wii U?

01:30:13   There's been ups, there's been downs, profit's been up, profit's been down, the company's

01:30:17   not going out of business but it's also not growing like gangbusters.

01:30:19   Is that the end of the world?

01:30:21   Is that enough to sustain the company?

01:30:23   It is probably because the ups and downs even out over the long haul and you continue being

01:30:28   the Nintendo that you are.

01:30:29   It's just that nobody likes that.

01:30:31   No one wants to see Nintendo limp along its subsistence levels.

01:30:35   They want to see it occasionally be more successful than that.

01:30:39   They want to see where is the next Wii coming from, where is the next platform or game that,

01:30:44   you know, and arguably Pokemon Go was a glimpse of them climbing back up, but I don't think

01:30:49   the Switch is going to be a similar type of hit.

01:30:51   I mean, maybe I'm wrong, we'll see, but if it just merely sustains them, like Casey said,

01:30:56   if it's like I don't see the Nintendo Switch changing their fortunes, if their fortunes

01:31:00   remain the same, then they're basically still okay.

01:31:03   And we get to, you know, we have to wait out a generation, play some really fun games,

01:31:07   and see if they have a different idea the next time.

01:31:09   That's one of the great things about Nintendo. People are excited about the PlayStation 5 and Xbox, whatever the hell their stupid name

01:31:16   they're gonna give to it, that's gonna be the generation after this, assuming they don't continue to just rev this generation with

01:31:21   back-up compatible, more powerful upgrades.

01:31:23   But with Nintendo, you never know what the hell they're gonna do. Like, they are more of a wild card. The Wii and

01:31:29   the Wii U and the Switch are way weirder than the Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS2, PS3, PS4.

01:31:37   Both in name and and in form and in the games that are available on it

01:31:41   Nintendo is obviously the most interesting player in this field and so I would never want to see them go away

01:31:46   And if if what it takes is, you know, this is another

01:31:49   failed experiment

01:31:51   but nevertheless the company says a float based on you know a partnership with Universal Studios and selling a billion iOS people a

01:31:58   Fairly cruddy infinite rudder starring your favorite plumber. I'm fine with that

01:32:04   You know, that's the thing though. You said that people recognize Mario. They don't. They recognize Mario, but not your ridiculous pronunciation thereof.

01:32:12   She'll back me up. She's the only one. All right. Well, here's to the crazy ones Nintendo and

01:32:19   Thanks to our three sponsors this week, Eero, Backblaze and Mailroute and we will see you next week.

01:32:29   Now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental

01:32:35   It was accidental

01:32:38   John didn't do any research Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental

01:32:46   It was accidental

01:32:49   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:32:53   And if you're into Twitter

01:32:57   You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:33:04   So that's K-C-LIS-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:33:08   N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-N S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A

01:33:16   It's accidental (It's accidental)

01:33:19   They didn't mean to accidental (Accidental)

01:33:24   ♪ Tech podcast so long ♪

01:33:27   - So breaking news,

01:33:31   actually there's two pieces of breaking news.

01:33:33   One, apparently Pebble's been bought by Fitbit,

01:33:38   which is interesting, I guess.

01:33:41   - Bought slash scraped off the sidewalk.

01:33:42   - Yeah, that screams AquaHire.

01:33:46   They even said in the tweet

01:33:48   that the Pebble brand will not continue.

01:33:50   So yeah. - They're sunsetting it.

01:33:51   - Yeah, I think it has long since fallen off

01:33:55   the edge of the earth and is well below the horizon now.

01:33:57   - Fair enough.

01:33:58   But other breaking news that happened

01:34:00   shortly before we started recording,

01:34:02   so shortly before that I didn't get a chance

01:34:04   to take a look at it, Marco has started vlogging.

01:34:09   - That's not what I know.

01:34:10   - That's not a vlog.

01:34:11   - I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

01:34:13   - Bats aren't bugs.

01:34:14   - Oh my goodness.

01:34:15   But you did post something to YouTube.

01:34:17   - I posted something to YouTube, that's right.

01:34:20   My YouTube account has existed for something like

01:34:22   six years or something, or longer even,

01:34:25   and I've posted something like six videos to it

01:34:28   in that time, none of which were anything substantial really.

01:34:33   - I got more videos than that on my channel.

01:34:34   - Probably, yeah.

01:34:35   Yeah, so I decided to do a video review

01:34:39   of the new MacBook Pro as kind of my testing the waters

01:34:43   of being a YouTube person.

01:34:46   There are a number of reasons for this.

01:34:48   YouTube is a massive place where everyone lives.

01:34:52   It is kind of unwise business to ignore such a massive place.

01:34:57   I can say the same thing about Facebook,

01:35:00   and I don't have a presence there either.

01:35:02   And I can say the same thing about Snapchat,

01:35:03   and I don't have a presence there either.

01:35:05   But I feel like I had to get into one of these things.

01:35:07   You can't ignore all of them.

01:35:09   You have to have a presence in something.

01:35:12   You don't have to do all of them, just pick at least one.

01:35:15   and it was easier for me to turn my office

01:35:18   into a video studio than to log into Facebook

01:35:21   or figure out what Snapchat is.

01:35:23   So that's the one I chose.

01:35:24   So I decided to start now in particular

01:35:29   because I wanted to review the new MacBook Pro

01:35:32   and I had more thought,

01:35:34   I talked briefly about it last week,

01:35:36   but I had more thoughts about it

01:35:37   than would fit or make sense in this podcast

01:35:42   and it's kind of like,

01:35:43   there are certain things that I wanted to actually show

01:35:46   in video or picture form.

01:35:48   There are certain wordings that I wanted to actually

01:35:50   write in advance so I wouldn't mess them up

01:35:52   and so I'd express myself properly

01:35:54   and how I wanted to explain myself.

01:35:55   And there were certain, it would've felt weird

01:35:59   to just monologue here for 15, 20 minutes,

01:36:04   even though I do that sometimes accidentally,

01:36:05   but I try not to do that here

01:36:08   'cause that's not really what a podcast is

01:36:10   and that's not really our format here.

01:36:12   so it would kind of be weird if I was sitting here

01:36:15   just doing all the talking with this big script

01:36:16   I was reading for 20 minutes about the MacBook Pro.

01:36:20   Basically, I had some more things to say about it.

01:36:22   I wanted to say them somewhere else.

01:36:24   It made sense to have some kind of visual component,

01:36:26   so my choices were either I could make a video

01:36:29   or I could make a blog post.

01:36:31   And I don't feel great about the future

01:36:34   of blog posts right now, and YouTube is the kind of thing

01:36:38   that I've wanted to get into for quite some time.

01:36:40   Also, much of my success in business

01:36:44   depends on a steady trickle in of new audience growth.

01:36:49   And I feel like I have done well with blogging in the past,

01:36:54   but not really so much currently.

01:36:56   I've done well with podcasting,

01:36:58   and I've done well with app things,

01:37:01   but I wasn't expanding anywhere.

01:37:03   I wasn't getting new people in from anywhere, really.

01:37:07   And a lot of the things I was doing, like blogging,

01:37:09   we're kind of like contracting.

01:37:10   And podcasting is growing, but very, very slowly.

01:37:12   And I feel like it will help all of my other things

01:37:17   if I have some place where I can reach a new audience,

01:37:21   where I can get new people in to the, you know,

01:37:25   Marco Foglio or whatever, God, please kill me.

01:37:28   - You gotta hurry up and get a million subscribers

01:37:30   so we can release our podcast on YouTube

01:37:32   with a bunch of stupid images in front of it

01:37:34   and get millions of views.

01:37:35   So hurry up and build that channel.

01:37:37   I have thought about ways to do that actually.

01:37:39   But it's probably not gonna happen anytime soon,

01:37:42   but I have actually thought about doing an ATP YouTube

01:37:44   channel 'cause it's not, I mean it's some work,

01:37:47   but it's not like a massive amount of work.

01:37:49   - But it's pointless work until you have built

01:37:52   your YouTube audience of a million people, so get on that.

01:37:54   - Yeah, so basically I wanted to have some participation

01:37:59   in this massive thing that I know very little about so far.

01:38:06   I feel like because of the businesses I'm in,

01:38:09   it's almost irresponsible not to know about it.

01:38:13   And it is, again, I ignore Facebook,

01:38:15   I ignore a lot of things that I shouldn't ignore.

01:38:18   - You should ignore Facebook.

01:38:19   - Yeah, probably. (laughs)

01:38:21   And I think also this also builds on skills I already have.

01:38:25   I already had almost all the equipment required

01:38:29   to make videos.

01:38:30   I bought a couple-- - And any equipment

01:38:31   you don't have, you would love to buy.

01:38:33   - Exactly. - Oh, truth.

01:38:34   I bought a couple LED lights for like 40 bucks,

01:38:37   just little battery powered ones,

01:38:38   so I got these two lights,

01:38:40   and then that was basically all I needed.

01:38:42   Like, I already had everything else.

01:38:44   And I already know some things about shooting video,

01:38:48   not much, but I know some things about it.

01:38:50   I know a decent amount more about photography,

01:38:52   and there's a lot of overlap,

01:38:53   and I know about sound recording,

01:38:55   and that's part of video.

01:38:56   And so I already had a lot of the skills

01:38:58   and tool set necessary,

01:39:00   and kind of the vocabulary necessary to do this.

01:39:05   It was way easier to do this than it would have been

01:39:07   to figure out Facebook or to spend any time on there

01:39:10   and just want to escape.

01:39:13   But anyway, I really don't like Facebook.

01:39:15   So I decided to do this and I think,

01:39:20   I don't know how much I'm going to do it,

01:39:22   but I think if I'm going to invest my time

01:39:26   creating reviews of products,

01:39:30   I think YouTube is the better place for that now

01:39:32   than my blog.

01:39:34   It's not necessarily less work.

01:39:36   It's actually somewhat similar.

01:39:39   YouTube might actually, you know,

01:39:40   it's less in certain ways, like,

01:39:41   you can kinda riff somewhat on the script part of it,

01:39:46   and so you can save some time on the writing,

01:39:47   not a lot, but some.

01:39:49   And shooting video, you can kinda show a few quick things,

01:39:52   like with the product in your hand that's faster

01:39:54   than shooting a whole bunch of different, like,

01:39:56   perfect photos and editing the photos afterwards,

01:39:57   it'd be perfect, and getting all the dust specs

01:39:59   off the object and everything.

01:40:00   There are some things that are faster

01:40:02   than doing a blog post.

01:40:03   Overall, it's gonna be a similar amount of work, though,

01:40:05   I think, and it might even take longer, who knows?

01:40:08   But ultimately, I think it is the best move

01:40:11   for my career right now to expand into YouTube,

01:40:15   and also for the format of things I do,

01:40:18   I realize I don't even read people's long blog articles

01:40:23   anymore about almost anything.

01:40:24   If I'm looking for product reviews,

01:40:27   I hardly ever read a long-form review.

01:40:28   I almost always just look at YouTube for a video,

01:40:31   a quick video review.

01:40:32   If there's a big review for some new product

01:40:34   like on The Verge or something,

01:40:36   and it has a video at the top,

01:40:38   I will almost always just watch the video

01:40:39   and maybe skim the article at best.

01:40:41   - Depends on the topic though,

01:40:42   because you still read a big giant thing on DPReview

01:40:45   about the new camera, right?

01:40:46   - Yes, but I buy a new camera every eight years.

01:40:49   So that's-- - I know, I'm just saying.

01:40:50   I'm just saying that it really depends on the topic.

01:40:52   If you only have a casual interest, you want the video,

01:40:54   but if you really wanna know,

01:40:56   if you wanna find out if the 5D Mark IV,

01:40:59   like is it worth buying,

01:41:00   you're gonna read the whole DP review thing

01:41:02   and seven other giant reviews about it

01:41:03   to find out is this, you know,

01:41:05   is it worth buying in a way that the Mark III wasn't

01:41:07   or whatever.

01:41:09   - Yeah, so anyway, for the most part though,

01:41:12   I think I and I think the numbers prove many other people

01:41:15   choose to get a lot of this information now in video

01:41:17   rather than reading blog posts.

01:41:19   And there's lots of things about this

01:41:21   that are obvious downsides to me.

01:41:23   You know, videos are less skimmable,

01:41:25   they are locked to this proprietary platform

01:41:28   for the most part.

01:41:28   I mean, yes, you can put a video wherever you want,

01:41:31   but nobody will see it if it isn't on YouTube or Facebook.

01:41:35   But anyway, I'm sure if I get good on a Facebook,

01:41:38   I'll just reboot my videos, so it won't even matter.

01:41:40   I will automatically be on Facebook.

01:41:42   So again, I don't have incredibly concrete plans yet.

01:41:48   I'm gonna basically feel around, do some experimentation,

01:41:50   and see what I wanna be doing here.

01:41:52   So far, it's gone surprisingly well.

01:41:55   This video took a few days worth of note taking

01:41:58   about what I wanted to say,

01:42:00   a day of figuring out the handful of things I had to buy

01:42:04   to make this happen well,

01:42:05   and then I shot, edited, and posted that video

01:42:10   entirely today.

01:42:12   So I feel like if I get good enough,

01:42:15   it is certainly possible, obviously,

01:42:16   everyone who's ever produced a video knows,

01:42:18   it is very possible for video production

01:42:20   to basically eat any amount of time and money

01:42:23   that it's given.

01:42:24   you can go completely off the deep end

01:42:26   and have incredible production values.

01:42:29   And people do, and that's great.

01:42:31   I know that as a mostly one person team here,

01:42:35   I'm not going to have the time or resources

01:42:38   or patience to do that.

01:42:40   That's the kind of thing that tends to require

01:42:42   a lot more people and time than what I can give

01:42:44   to this project.

01:42:44   So instead, my goal is gonna basically try to be like

01:42:48   finding the right balance of like what I should do

01:42:51   and what I don't really have to do

01:42:53   to make decent videos about certain things sometimes

01:42:56   that people will enjoy.

01:42:57   And I don't even care that much about money

01:43:00   about the videos yet, it's more about audience building.

01:43:03   I don't really intend probably ever

01:43:06   to run YouTube's terrible ads.

01:43:08   You know, I might eventually do like at the end

01:43:10   where they say this episode is sponsored by Hover

01:43:12   or whatever, like I might do something like that eventually

01:43:13   but in the early stages at least,

01:43:16   my primary goal here is reaching new people.

01:43:19   And so we'll see how this goes.

01:43:20   - It's all about your brand.

01:43:22   - Can I tell you everything you did wrong now?

01:43:24   - Yeah, please do.

01:43:25   There's lots of, and look, some of the things I did wrong,

01:43:28   I know I did wrong, but it was like,

01:43:31   well, I could fix this, but it would require

01:43:32   an entire reshoot of this whole segment,

01:43:34   which would require resetting up all this stuff,

01:43:36   and it's like, I just wanna get this done.

01:43:38   'Cause again, I don't want this to be something

01:43:41   that blows a huge hole in my schedule

01:43:43   every time I wanna say something about a MacBook Pro.

01:43:45   - Before you go through the list of grievances,

01:43:48   do you wanna, Marco, quickly run through the equipment,

01:43:52   both hardware and software that you use to do this

01:43:54   because you know you're gonna get asked,

01:43:55   so you might as well just quickly list it if you can.

01:43:57   - Okay, sure, the camera I'm using doesn't matter,

01:43:59   and the software I'm using is Final Cut Pro,

01:44:01   which barely matters, and I was using some cheapo Neewer,

01:44:05   Neewer, Neewer, however that brand is pronounced,

01:44:07   using their cheapo LED light boxes,

01:44:11   and yeah, it's fine. (laughs)

01:44:15   - And what mic?

01:44:17   - For the mic, my sound setup is in flux.

01:44:19   I used the Rode Wireless Lavalier mic,

01:44:24   that it's one of the pair that I bought

01:44:26   when Tiff and I snuck into the Starbucks to do top four,

01:44:29   'cause they're discreet.

01:44:30   It was, I didn't sound very good.

01:44:33   I did try, I have a little Sennheiser shotgun mic

01:44:37   that I tried mounting on top of the camera

01:44:39   and using that instead.

01:44:40   But with microphones generally,

01:44:43   being close to your mouth is way, way more important

01:44:48   than having a really good microphone that's five feet away.

01:44:52   If you can get any microphone up to your mouth,

01:44:54   that is generally a better idea

01:44:56   than a better mic that's far.

01:44:59   And so the nicer shotgun mic mounted on the camera

01:45:03   still sounded like garbage,

01:45:05   and the Lavalier sounded substantially better.

01:45:09   It didn't sound good,

01:45:11   but I think it might sound good enough.

01:45:14   So yeah, we'll see.

01:45:16   In the future, I definitely intend to do a little bit more

01:45:19   of the B-roll shots.

01:45:21   I had very little B-roll because actually,

01:45:23   I had a bit of a hardware failure on the MacBook

01:45:27   halfway through my B-roll shooting,

01:45:29   which I had to look into that tomorrow.

01:45:31   But yeah, so there's lots of things I would do differently,

01:45:34   but I just didn't want to spend the time

01:45:36   to have a whole other day or half day

01:45:39   of reshoots and different things.

01:45:41   So John, listen to them all.

01:45:43   List all the problems.

01:45:44   Alright, so keep in mind that I have made zero YouTube videos of this kind.

01:45:50   All my YouTube videos are Destiny videos, which are awesome, but not the same thing.

01:45:55   So this is coming entirely from a position of someone who doesn't actually know what

01:45:58   it takes to make one of these things, but I have watched a fair number of these videos,

01:46:02   and just based on watching them, this is my advice, and you should totally talk to all

01:46:06   your YouTuber friends to get the real advice.

01:46:09   But this is the casual stuff.

01:46:11   mentioned, if you're going to do a video review of this kind, you need to do the things you can

01:46:17   only do in a video review, which is pretty much every time you're talking about anything, show it

01:46:22   to me. Every single time. Not that I don't want to look at your face, but, and by the way, that's the

01:46:26   other thing you've done wrong, be much younger and much more attractive. Can you work on that?

01:46:30   Anyway, you can't, there's nothing you can do about it, unfortunately, but seriously, that is like a big,

01:46:35   big factor. So if there's any way you could age backwards and become more attractive, that would be

01:46:38   be awesome. Anyway, not that I don't want to see you talking, but if you're talking

01:46:45   about anything, you have to show it. That's what you can do in video. If you watch another

01:46:49   video like watch MKBHD or any other thing, 90% of the time you're hearing the person's

01:46:55   voice but not seeing them speak because you're hearing them talk while their hands manipulate

01:47:00   the thing while they zoom in. And it's a pain because you've got to do all these stupid

01:47:03   setups and have all the different angles and figure out a way to get the camera on it without

01:47:08   breaking your track pad and get all those shots,

01:47:12   but that's what it is, that's what it's all about.

01:47:15   And also lengthwise, I know you did some script in there,

01:47:19   but I think you could have cut this thing in half

01:47:21   by saying what you wanted to say in one concise way,

01:47:25   in one or two sentences without,

01:47:28   it felt more like a podcast

01:47:29   where you were talking around the thing

01:47:31   because you're being extemporaneous and just coming out,

01:47:33   like condense, you could have got all that same info out

01:47:36   half the amount of time with way more close-up shots and way less of you sitting in front

01:47:42   of your cute sleeping dog. Don't do your videos with a window behind you. Backlighting is

01:47:46   a challenging situation. I know you want to show off that you have a cool camera, but

01:47:49   it seems like a bad deal. Don't wear entirely black because you disappear into a giant black

01:47:53   hole. Like, I know that's your outfit, but you've got to come up with something that

01:47:55   reads well. Just like, you know, don't wear stripes and polka dots and other things that

01:47:58   you get, like the crazy pattern thing. It does hide the mic well, though. Yeah. Wake

01:48:03   the dog up occasionally. No! Because he's cute, but if you sleep, but if he sleeps the whole time,

01:48:06   it's boring. So it's fun to see him running around and doing stuff. And yeah, that's basically it.

01:48:13   Like every time you were there trying to show me something on a laptop that you were holding

01:48:17   in your hand seven feet from the camera, it's like not working. So like those, those are the

01:48:21   main points. Way more close-up shots of everything, fewer shots of you talking. Yeah, different

01:48:27   outfits and condensed. Definitely could have been half length. I think you could do the same video

01:48:31   over again, cut the length in half and put like five times

01:48:35   as much close up shots of products in it.

01:48:38   And that's what you're going for.

01:48:39   - I completely agree.

01:48:40   That's all very good feedback, thank you.

01:48:44   And I totally agree that I could,

01:48:46   like as I was editing it, I'm like, you know,

01:48:48   should I spend another like hour to just re-record

01:48:51   this whole thing and make it tighter

01:48:52   and redo all the segments that I didn't quite do

01:48:55   exactly right and again, it's a matter of,

01:48:58   What I have to find is the balance between amount of time

01:49:02   I have to put into these things versus

01:49:04   what is it worth doing because--

01:49:07   - But you're following it to my trap

01:49:09   where you wanna get every single point out.

01:49:10   That's what podcasts are for,

01:49:12   or that's what like 100 page, I always tend to read it for.

01:49:14   I know you have all these points, like I know they're there,

01:49:17   but when I watch a video review,

01:49:18   the sense I get is very often,

01:49:21   you've said the simplest and highest level thing

01:49:25   that you can say about this without going into any detail,

01:49:27   and you have to do that to get out of the video in a reasonable amount of time, right?

01:49:31   Like they'll have one sentence about the fact that there are no ports except for a thunderbolt

01:49:36   on it.

01:49:37   One sentence, you're like, "Really?

01:49:38   You're going to have one sentence on this major thing?

01:49:39   I need to talk for 10 minutes about just that doesn't have any other kinds of ports on it."

01:49:44   You don't, you can't do that.

01:49:45   You don't have time.

01:49:46   Like that's the format.

01:49:47   And again, you can make your own format.

01:49:48   You don't have to do it like everybody else does.

01:49:50   But when I saw that video, it seems like if you're going for a Verge style or MKBHD style

01:49:56   or any of his other style, if you're going for that type of thing and you want it to be small and punchy,

01:49:59   you don't get to say a lot about the fact that there are only four Thunderbolt ports and there's

01:50:03   no MagSafe and one of your things is going to be taken by a PowerPoint. All the little nuanced

01:50:07   points you have to make, you just can't make them because there's no time. You've got to have one

01:50:11   sentence that you should probably write beforehand that you're going to read while showing close-up

01:50:15   footage of the ports that was shot separately. And that's that format. If you want to go with

01:50:21   the rambly one or like the the more complicated in-depth one you can do that too but then the

01:50:27   only videos i've seen that have been successful of that are way more structured where like yeah

01:50:31   they are 15 minutes long but there's a structure to them and they go into detail and there's

01:50:35   segments and there's things to hang your hat on basically the visual version of of like h2 h3 you

01:50:40   know like the visual version of indenting on a table of contents the beginning of my os 10 days

01:50:44   you need you need something like that it's as if i wrote an os 10 review but it was just paragraph

01:50:48   to paragraph a text with no section headings

01:50:50   and no hierarchy at all, right?

01:50:53   - What you're saying is correct if I want to be

01:50:58   like one of these popular vloggers

01:50:59   and popular tech YouTubers.

01:51:01   I'm not sure that's what I want.

01:51:03   I'm not sure that I even can do that.

01:51:05   I think what I need to find is the balance

01:51:07   between who I am and what is popular on YouTube.

01:51:12   And I don't think, like, if I just try to be MKBHD,

01:51:15   I'm gonna fail, 'cause I'm not MKBHD.

01:51:17   Like if I try to make a Verge video,

01:51:20   I'm gonna fail 'cause I'm not spending as much time

01:51:22   and resources on it as the Verge is.

01:51:24   - But you want the advantages that they have.

01:51:25   You said you don't want it to be that long, right?

01:51:29   You want it to be more compact.

01:51:30   You want it to be like somewhat pre-written, right?

01:51:34   And you want it to presumably take advantage

01:51:36   of the things that are in video.

01:51:38   And also, you want to build an audience.

01:51:40   And the things that have been proven

01:51:42   to build an audience are those type,

01:51:44   it doesn't mean you have to build a style.

01:51:45   You can pick your own style.

01:51:46   And in fact, you could be the entire opposite style

01:51:48   where you make seven hour videos

01:51:49   that are going to incredible depth.

01:51:51   I just don't think the audience is that big for that.

01:51:52   You can do whatever you want,

01:51:53   but it seems like you're actually very close

01:51:57   to those types of videos now with this video that you made

01:52:00   and the parts where you diverge,

01:52:02   if you were to bring them closer,

01:52:04   it would also be closer to your desires for this video,

01:52:08   which is to do something that you can't do

01:52:10   in a podcast and a blog,

01:52:11   to take less time, to be more concise.

01:52:14   the type of video that you would watch

01:52:16   instead of reading the Big Long Verge article.

01:52:18   You haven't quite made that, but you're close.

01:52:20   - Yeah, yeah, ultimately I think you're right.

01:52:24   Again, it's a matter of finding my natural fit

01:52:26   on this continuum somewhere.

01:52:28   And I obviously, I didn't expect to find it

01:52:31   with my very first video that I've ever made

01:52:34   in this kind of capacity or style at all.

01:52:36   But I think it'll take me a while to find that balance.

01:52:41   - You should have Tiff do your wardrobe.

01:52:44   She would love it.

01:52:45   She should make you clothes for it.

01:52:47   If it's a link outfit fit you?

01:52:48   - Wow.

01:52:51   - I'm just spitballing here.

01:52:52   - If I can figure out the microphone thing,

01:52:54   then I'll put on whatever shirt I want.

01:52:56   Right now it's convenient to hide

01:52:58   my little crappy black lavalier.

01:53:00   - You could totally, like that's your look.

01:53:01   The black thing is your look.

01:53:02   I just think, I don't know what you have to do

01:53:05   to make that work camera wise, but it wasn't.

01:53:07   And I think the backlight from the window is not helping.

01:53:10   It's like to make a black, completely black outfit,

01:53:13   black shirt with a black hoodie to make that read on camera, some video person will tell

01:53:16   you what you have to do. But whatever it is, it needs to be something.

01:53:20   I also think you are grossly overestimating how important it is to hide your mic. I really

01:53:25   don't think anyone cares.

01:53:26   No one cares about the mic.

01:53:27   Well, if I wanted to not hide the mic, I would just bring a podcasting mic over from the

01:53:31   boom arm and actually sound good.

01:53:33   Well, no, no, no, no, no. That's different. That's different. I think having something

01:53:37   that's occluding the view of you is one thing. Being able to see a lavalier mic that

01:53:42   we've seen on every television talk show for 30 years, that's a totally different thing.

01:53:47   Yeah, but you're not going to be on camera most of the time anyway.

01:53:49   Most of the time it's going to be you talking over other footage that you shot.

01:53:52   That's true.

01:53:53   Because really, I really like, it's not like, it's not a question of you being like those

01:53:56   other things, it's a question of what do people want to look at.

01:53:58   And like I said, you know, it would help if you were younger and more attractive, but

01:54:00   in general, no one wants to see someone just sit there and talk.

01:54:04   They want to show, and then a product review, just show me the product like the whole freaking

01:54:08   time.

01:54:09   Talk by all means, talk to me, tell me about what you have to see.

01:54:11   But just seeing you talk, that should be the smallest proportion of the video.

01:54:18   And so if during that time we can see a little black mic on your thing, like Casey said,

01:54:21   we've seen that on TV for years and it's fine.

01:54:23   And the audio quality was fine.

01:54:25   I don't think you need to do anything to make the audio better.

01:54:28   And not really make the video, but like you said, you did it in 1080 instead of 4K.

01:54:31   The video looked fine.

01:54:33   Your shirt didn't read well and it is challenging with the backlighting, but everything about

01:54:37   it was fine.

01:54:38   It's just because the MacBook was too far away from the camera.

01:54:41   So anytime you're trying to show me anything,

01:54:42   it's like, well, I can't see that, so forget it.

01:54:46   - I think what I'd like in the future is,

01:54:48   again, a lot more B-roll shots,

01:54:50   so like a lot more of the closeups and everything

01:54:52   of the computer doing things that I'm talking about,

01:54:55   things that I'm showing.

01:54:56   Again, this was kind of rushed at the end

01:54:58   because I was trying to get it all done today.

01:55:01   And again, I gotta find that part of the balance

01:55:04   between finding out what kind of style of video

01:55:09   to produce and what content it should be, part of that balance is also figured into

01:55:13   the rest of my life because I'm also a podcaster and I'm also a software developer and I'm

01:55:19   also lazy. And so I have to find, I have to figure out the schedule of where does this

01:55:26   project fit in my life, how much time can I really devote to this. And again, these

01:55:31   are all things I'm going to have to figure out over time. But overall, I do agree, like

01:55:35   I think future videos will be less of just me talking and more of showing the things

01:55:40   that I'm talking about. That being said, I was surprised how many responses I got

01:55:46   already so far with people pointing out, people who noticed that I made very few cuts in the

01:55:52   video that is mostly just me talking with only a few cuts here and there. A lot of people

01:55:57   complimented that. A lot of people said this is kind of a relief from the more highly produced

01:56:02   that are cut in like every four seconds.

01:56:04   Like, 'cause that's, you know, pro video usually

01:56:06   makes tons of cuts, like it's like watching a movie trailer.

01:56:09   Just cut, cut, cut, it's just constant, right?

01:56:12   And the kind of the more amateur you get,

01:56:14   I think the less cuts you tend to make.

01:56:16   And a lot of people actually said they liked that.

01:56:19   And again, this is all gonna depend on what is my style,

01:56:24   what are my goals here, what do I want to do?

01:56:27   When I say audience growth, I'm not saying I'm gonna try

01:56:30   to do whatever it takes to get 10 million subscribers

01:56:33   or whatever, like that would be nice.

01:56:35   I don't expect that to happen.

01:56:36   I mean, I never even had that big of an audience

01:56:38   on my blog at its peak, so I wouldn't expect that

01:56:42   to happen on YouTube, but I wanna find people

01:56:47   who are compatible with me.

01:56:50   And so to some degree, I do have to kinda come

01:56:52   on the terms of the medium and do it quote correctly.

01:56:57   But also to some degree, I don't wanna like totally change

01:56:59   who I am for this medium.

01:57:00   So like, some of the comments also pointed out how

01:57:04   they were happy to see me talk about things

01:57:07   that other people weren't talking about about this machine.

01:57:10   And I think that's kind of because I'm a rambling podcaster

01:57:12   who wants to talk about it in great detail.

01:57:14   And I'm not gonna cut out the big long section

01:57:16   about the power brick.

01:57:17   - That's why you could do the long sequences without cuts

01:57:20   is because you are accustomed to spilling out your thoughts

01:57:24   in a long sequence.

01:57:25   - That's true.

01:57:26   - Without cuts, essentially.

01:57:28   Even in the podcast, like this podcast is edited, but it's not as if you're taking any of our soliloquies and chopping it up into a thousand pieces and piecing it together.

01:57:36   That's not how it works at all.

01:57:39   I mean, some shows are like that, but the show is not.

01:57:41   So you're used to doing that.

01:57:43   And whether the current YouTube stars are used to doing that or not, the fact is they don't.

01:57:47   Like they will, you know, two sentences about this, cut.

01:57:51   Two sentences about this, cut.

01:57:52   Two sentences about this.

01:57:53   And often those cuts are because they're showing you the things.

01:57:55   But I think they didn't even say those in sequence.

01:57:57   I think it's a they are assembling they are creating it their their thing in the editing room for the most part

01:58:02   Which is yeah, you know a perfectly valid way to work

01:58:04   But it is not the way this podcast or I think even even something like top four

01:58:09   It's not how that works as far as I'm able to tell as a listener

01:58:11   So I think you're coming at it from that perspective and that is it that is a difference that will be apparent to people

01:58:17   people.

01:58:19   [ Silence ]