188: $850 Fidget Cube
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All right fine. Well you just go go ahead keep being smug. I'm not being smug
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I take no pleasure in being right all the time, Gizzy. Oh
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Please tell me you could hear my eyes rolling
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We got a few pieces of feedback about
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Some phrasing. Yeah, this is when we were talking. What was the topic?
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We were talking about we'll get to it later in the fall
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But in fact that yeah, it's just a touch thing anyway
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And I kept referring to I was trying to refer to the region on the map that I'm visualizing in my head that includes not just
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China I didn't want to always say China because it's like yeah, it's big and it takes up a lot of room in that region
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But it's not the only country there
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It also encompasses all the other countries that are sort of around China and I kept saying the Far East which is apparently a
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very Eurocentric and not favored and slightly insulting term because it just you know
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You're deciding like east of what east of like where people who get to name things are or whatever
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So anyway Far East will be excised from my vocabulary to the best of my abilities and we'll go with many suggestions people's at East Asia
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Which I mean, I guess Asia is the landmass and it's not the eastern part of it. You can just say Asia
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But I'm gonna try not to say Far East and if I slip up just tell me again
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Live in real time and Marco wetted it out
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But there you go fair enough we need to talk about our friendly wager
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There's some confusion in the ranks and I am also confused.
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Well, it's not time for any money to change hands.
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We'll just start by saying that.
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I would concur.
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Luke Brewster called this to our attention earlier today in the 10.1 Beta, which was
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released as we record just a few hours ago.
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In accessibility, in the reduced motion section, there is now autoplay message effects, which,
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To Jon's credit, at first glance appears to be a sub-setting, which I told him would never
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happen with regard to messages.
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That was so long ago.
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That was practically a week ago, so, you know.
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You don't have to be so smug, Jon, although I would be if I were you.
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I'm just saying I gave myself until iOS 11.
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That's called adding padding.
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AutoPlay Message Effects is its own setting.
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Some have said, and I don't have a link handy,
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but we'll put in the show notes.
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Some have said that it's not quite so simple
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and that it doesn't appear to give you any sort of lasers.
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It just messes with some of the simpler ones
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like whisper maybe?
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I haven't tried this.
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I'm not on the beta, so.
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- So I don't have this installed yet.
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- But for reports from people who haven't installed
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and Marco will give a report as well.
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The reports I've heard so far is that it does nothing.
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That the setting appears and the setting only appears
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when you turn reduce motion on.
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So if reduce motion is off,
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you don't even see the setting.
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Only when reduce motion is on,
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do you get the second setting.
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And then no matter what you put that second setting at,
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it appears to do nothing.
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Do you have experiments that contradict this, Marco?
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- That has been my experience exactly.
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Where I just installed it an hour ago,
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just trying to get it done before the show
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so I could try it out.
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And we didn't try all the effects,
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but I did try the full screen lasers and stuff.
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and they will say sent with lasers,
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but they don't allow you to send them.
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Like you can't 3D push the up arrow thing,
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it doesn't do anything, which I believe is the same
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as whenever you have any reduced motion turned on, right?
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And I had Tiff send me lasers,
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and it still says sent with lasers,
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but it does not do any of the animation.
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As far as I could tell, it really appears to do nothing.
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- So that thing is like not hooked up
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an interface builder, as they say.
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- Basically somebody forgot to like if def it out
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for the release, like they were working on it
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and didn't finish it in time,
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and somebody just forgot to comment it out basically.
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- And this is not one of the public facing betas
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by the way I think.
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If you are, I'm not sure, but if you're on the public beta
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would you get this one or no?
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- There is no public beta yet for this version.
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I think Panzerino said it was gonna come out on Friday.
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But I don't know if that's for sure.
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- I wonder if that one will be different.
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But anyway, that's motion on the front of the $1 wager
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from the last episode.
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But no decision yet because obviously,
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this is not a shipping version of the operating system, so it doesn't really matter what's in it,
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and B, what's in it is a switch that does nothing. And so on the topic, on this broader topic,
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we got a lot of feedback about it, as you would imagine, based on the tail end of the last show.
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I was not tallying the feedback, but I wasn't either. But I mean, impression-wise, I think
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we will all agree that there were, most of the feedback we heard was from people who agreed with
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me. That doesn't mean anything because it's a self-selecting group. Well, you don't agree with
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that. I'm saying most, like it's more than 50%. I agree with you with caveats. I mean
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certainly more than 50% of the words agreed with you. I agree with you by and large. I
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will say that early on for the first couple of days it seemed like it was pretty darn
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close. You were probably in the lead but it was close. And then after that initial wave
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of people who listen in the first like 48 hours, then you just ran away with it. And
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as always...
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You're also not seeing the feedback that's sent directly to me.
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Well, why would people tell you that you're right?
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That's like a Trump claim, like, "Well, I'm hearing from lots of people."
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They email just me, because my email address is on the web, or they @mention just me and
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don't @mention the show, and I get a lot of that. I also don't see the people who are
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just @mentioning you or emailing you. So there is that still, that dark matter. But the ratios
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for the people who emailed "just me" seemed about the same as the public one.
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You know, anyway, this is not a democracy. The only role I think that the feedback plays,
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aside from curiosity and audience participation, is the only data points we have to measure the
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idea that there could perhaps, for example, be people out there who use reduced motion for
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a reason that KC decides is legitimate and also want to send lasers, right? And we had several
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people like that write in to say, "I am that person. I need to reduce motion for what I believe
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is a legitimate reason, but I want to send lasers." And the question might have been, "Maybe there's
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nobody like that or maybe, you know, whatever." So people chimed in with that opinion to at least
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give a few data points to those people out there. And again, that doesn't mean anything about whether
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Apple should add another option.
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And by the way, I suggest that they add this option
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to Messages because Messages has settings too,
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or if it doesn't, it can have them, right?
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Because if you try to add the settings
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in Accessibility itself, what are you gonna do?
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Add a number of like a little options
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for every single application that wants to have Tweak?
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Like there's a place for those settings
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and it's in Messages.
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Now I feel like Apple gets kind of a pass
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if they're gonna put it in the general section
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of the Accessibility section,
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because Messages is like, well, is that really an app
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or is it part of the OS or whatever?
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But this is not a scalable solution to UI.
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And my original suggestion was, put the setting in messages.
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Because if you make an application
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and it has behaviors or whatever that you think
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you should hide if reduced motion is on, but some of them
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are borderline, make the default to hide them
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because that's a safe default. But if you feel like you're
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taking away too much or that there
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may be a substantial portion of your audience
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that wants to modify that behavior,
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that's the perfect opportunity to add
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a setting to your settings, to your settings
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for your application that when reduced motion is on,
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I also want to XYZ, be able to use the rocket launcher
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or whatever.
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So we'll see how this turns out.
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- Yeah, it was interesting reading the feedback
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because there were a couple of people
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that seemed like they genuinely had an accessibility issue
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and some of them weighed in my favor, some in yours.
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The thing that struck me so funny was so many people
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who were just passionately opposed to the zoom animation,
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oftentimes with no ailment associated,
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they just freaking hate it.
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and then somehow think that it's okay for that to be off,
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but balloons or lasers to be on,
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like they're entitled to have the exact perfect thing.
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- It's not about entitled.
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Here's the problem with this whole angle,
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which no one really said in the feedback,
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and I was hoping someone would bring it up, but they didn't.
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The problem with your stance is that it hinges on someone,
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you perhaps in this case, being the decider
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about what is and isn't a quote unquote legitimate use
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of accessibility feature.
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Like, some things you think are clear-cut.
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You're like, "Oh, well, there's legitimate and there's illegitimate."
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You see that you need it or you don't need it.
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But once you have anointed yourself the official authority on what is and isn't what you consider
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to be a, air quotes, "legitimate accessibility issue," you're binning people.
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And it's like, there is a gray area in the middle.
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Maybe we can all agree on the end points, but there is a gray area, right?
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So I think that's just not a tenable standpoint.
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I obviously think that who cares what that spectrum is if people want to use the feature they want to use the feature and
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Totally removing a major feature of iOS 10 is a bad idea
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But anyway, listen to that rant you can hear all this stuff again
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The few points that we did that I didn't really hammer on that much
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But that a lot of people said in the feedback is a lot of people are very mad that they can't send the effects
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Right if you have so fine reduced motion is on for you
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But you can't even send them to your friends like it's a feature is totally gone
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In case people aren't clear about this
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You can't send somebody lasers
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Forget about whether you can see them like say you have reduced motion on because you can't have motion on your screen not being able
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To send them feels punitive, right?
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Because there's no legit reason for that right and you know and whatever like this that that's the first version the operating system
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It was a point 0.1 or whatever they could change that but that's that's why I feel like it
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You know, it can't stand and the other thing is about you can't use small text
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I mean, that's not a motion thing at all
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So there are certain things that you can make arguments against regardless of this debate
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we're having about whether you need this extra setting. But anyway, that's a brief rehash
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of last episode with hopefully less yelling. But either way, I think at this point, we're
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all just sitting back and waiting. And I don't feel particularly compelled by the feedback
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that the world is on my side or anything like that. Because like I said, it's a self-selecting
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group. The people who are going to write in are going to be the people who are all worked
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up like I was, right? So it's not a representative sample of anything. And I'm assuming most
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of the people who listen to our show are nerds, and nerds are the ones who like to have these
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features and so on and so forth. So I probably agree with you, Casey, that a lot of the people
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really are like, "Look, I want settings for everything and so on and so forth, and I understand
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how that's not going to work." But in this specific case, I think this passes muster
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as a case where Apple will actually add a switch. And I'm hoping these little hints
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that a potential switch that might do something someday mean that I'm right. And by the way,
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final bit on this, I did file a radar on it. I filed an enhancement request because this is not
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a bug. There's nothing worse than people who file bug requests and they list it as like severe bug.
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This is not a bug. You're asking for an additional feature that doesn't exist. It's an enhancement
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request. There's a choice for it right there. Anyway, I filed an enhancement request asking
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for the specific functionality. It was close as dupe. So I feel like I have done my official,
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you know, good platform citizen duty, and I have done the thing and now I just wait.
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Can we get like "I filed" stickers made? Like the "I voted" stickers?
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Yeah, I should. For radar, people should. I didn't think to encourage people to do it,
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because obviously it's not a, it's a thankless process most of the time.
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Is there some way that you could send me that radar number so I can file a radar that says
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"Ignore John's ridiculous radar about how he wants to have his cake and eat it too"?
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You can do that. Go ahead. If anyone wants to file a radar, it's a, you can, anyone can file
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There's a feedback form on Apple site somewhere,
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but developer accounts, like you can get whatever you need,
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whatever like free developer account
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without giving Apple any money or anything.
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I think if you just have an Apple ID,
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you can get to the point where you can file a radar.
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As long as that soup is just right, Jon.
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Not too hot, not too cold, not too motiony,
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not too little motion, just right.
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All right, so a lot of people in East Asia
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have written in to tell us about whether or not
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the assistive touch thing versus the physical home button is real.
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To recap, we had said that we had heard or read some reports that people in East Asia
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use the assistive touch feature even if they are fully able-bodied because of various different
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reasons, but the most common one was not wanting to damage a home button that is considered
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to be fragile, whether or not that's actually true.
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We had a lot of people write in, and I would say the overwhelming majority of people that
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live in East Asia or have spent significant time in East Asia have written in to say,
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"Yes, this is a thing," and generally speaking, it's either about keeping something
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very expensive in good tip-top shape or because there is a phobia of breaking your home button
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in the same way that Americans seem to be convinced that force-quitting apps is helpful.
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Just an overwhelming majority, I would say.
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I think we didn't get a single piece of feedback that contradicted what we said.
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The only thing that varied were the percentages.
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Some people said, "It's 90 percent.
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I see it all the time," or it's like 20 percent, but nobody said, "Hey, those articles you
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read were totally not representative, not a single person."
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So I'm going to put a confirmed stamp on this one and say, "According to the people who
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who report to live there, who send email and tweets
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to our podcast.
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That article is a real thing.
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- Yeah, and there were some really good reasons for it.
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I mean, as you mentioned Casey, a lot of times,
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it's because these devices, these are expensive devices,
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and depending on where you live,
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it could be relatively more or less expensive
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compared to typical life expenses there.
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And so it really is a thing where people want to protect
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this thing that they've heard wears out,
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or that they had an iPhone before and it did wear out,
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and they had to get an expensive service,
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'cause not everyone can just walk into an Apple store
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everywhere they are and get a replacement for free.
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A lot of times there's more involved processes.
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A lot of these places there are no Apple stores nearby
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and you have to mail it somewhere
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and that might be expensive and very time consuming.
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There were lots of good reasons why basically
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for a lot of people getting an iPhone
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with a failed part serviced is a big ordeal
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or expense or both.
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And so there were a number of iPhones,
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I would say at least the 4 and 4S and maybe even the 5,
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where the home buttons did wear out for a lot of people.
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It was a widespread problem.
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And so there is basis for this.
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Like there is a very good reason why people have this.
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What I thought was very interesting
00:14:28
◼
►
about this feedback also is that many people said
00:14:33
◼
►
that turning on AssistiveTouch is like the routine thing
00:14:38
◼
►
for the phone salespeople to do
00:14:40
◼
►
as they set up your phone with you
00:14:41
◼
►
before you even go home with it.
00:14:42
◼
►
So you're walking out of the cell phone store
00:14:44
◼
►
with it already enabled because the person there
00:14:47
◼
►
either did it for you and didn't even mention it
00:14:49
◼
►
or explained to you why you should always use this thing
00:14:51
◼
►
and then turned it on for you.
00:14:52
◼
►
- Yeah, I thought that was fascinating.
00:14:55
◼
►
- And for the people who are sighted those reasons,
00:14:57
◼
►
by the way, we had variations in the feedback.
00:14:59
◼
►
I think we had some objections to the idea
00:15:00
◼
►
that it was about resale value,
00:15:02
◼
►
that it wasn't as mercenary as that,
00:15:03
◼
►
that it's just like they don't want a broken thing.
00:15:05
◼
►
And like Margo said, they don't want a broken thing
00:15:06
◼
►
because it's a pain for them to get it fixed.
00:15:08
◼
►
either it's expensive or it's just more of a pain, right?
00:15:11
◼
►
So it wasn't like people like,
00:15:13
◼
►
I'm never gonna sell my phone, but I still do this.
00:15:15
◼
►
It's really, really common.
00:15:16
◼
►
Now to most of these people,
00:15:18
◼
►
like this is another example of humans being bad
00:15:20
◼
►
at risk assessment and good at pattern matching,
00:15:23
◼
►
gone awry a little bit,
00:15:24
◼
►
because if you're never going to resell your phone
00:15:28
◼
►
and if you're never gonna touch the home button,
00:15:30
◼
►
it doesn't matter if it's broken.
00:15:32
◼
►
You know what I mean?
00:15:33
◼
►
Like logically speaking,
00:15:35
◼
►
if you're never gonna use the home button
00:15:37
◼
►
and you're never gonna give it to anybody
00:15:38
◼
►
who uses the home button,
00:15:39
◼
►
then why are you worried about wearing out the home button
00:15:41
◼
►
because no one's ever gonna touch the home button?
00:15:43
◼
►
Use it until it breaks and then use assistive touch.
00:15:46
◼
►
And the reason I suggest this for the most part
00:15:48
◼
►
is because I think having assistive touch all the time
00:15:52
◼
►
is a little bit of a burden.
00:15:54
◼
►
That's what I would think about it,
00:15:56
◼
►
because you have this thing that's on the screen
00:15:57
◼
►
and you're always moving it around to get out of the way
00:15:59
◼
►
'cause it's always on top.
00:16:00
◼
►
Now, to counter that, many people wrote in to say,
00:16:03
◼
►
actually, assistive touch is awesome.
00:16:06
◼
►
It's an advantage.
00:16:07
◼
►
It's not a burden that I have to move it out of the way,
00:16:09
◼
►
or rather that burden is counteracted by the abilities
00:16:12
◼
►
that I have with assistive touch
00:16:13
◼
►
that I don't have without it.
00:16:14
◼
►
I had never even heard of these things,
00:16:16
◼
►
but apparently people love the idea
00:16:18
◼
►
that they can sort of use features
00:16:21
◼
►
that would be harder to access
00:16:22
◼
►
if they didn't have assistive touch,
00:16:23
◼
►
because assistive touch is always on top,
00:16:25
◼
►
and you can do all sorts of stuff from it,
00:16:27
◼
►
sometimes that you can't do it all.
00:16:28
◼
►
One person was saying that you can turn off the shutter sound
00:16:30
◼
►
for the camera, that apparently you can't do it all
00:16:33
◼
►
without this feature, but just having quick access
00:16:35
◼
►
the functions that it revealed under it, makes it worth having on the screen all the time.
00:16:40
◼
►
Well that apparently it's a lot faster once you get good at it. People were saying just
00:16:45
◼
►
having it right where your thumb is rather than having to reach, and I know people are
00:16:49
◼
►
starting to roll their eyes, but I'm being serious, rather than having to reach down
00:16:53
◼
►
to the bottom of the phone to hit the home button, having that little white orb just
00:16:57
◼
►
hanging out right there is in many cases faster. And I'm just as we're recording looking at
00:17:03
◼
►
the AssistiveTouch setup, so it's general accessibility, or if you're John Syracuse,
00:17:08
◼
►
just random customizations you'd like to make, AssistiveTouch, and then you can turn it on,
00:17:13
◼
►
you can customize the things that are there.
00:17:14
◼
►
So the defaults on my phone are Notification Center, Device, whatever that means, Control
00:17:19
◼
►
Center, Home, and Siri, but you can add or remove the number of icons, I presume I can,
00:17:24
◼
►
yeah, tap an icon to change, and there's all sorts of different things you can do, including
00:17:28
◼
►
take a screenshot, for example.
00:17:30
◼
►
So it is pretty cool what's available.
00:17:32
◼
►
I still find this to be an annoyance for me
00:17:36
◼
►
because I'm lucky enough to be able-bodied
00:17:38
◼
►
and not have to have it.
00:17:40
◼
►
But I can see why someone who is perhaps used to it
00:17:42
◼
►
or just assumes like this is the way it's supposed to be.
00:17:45
◼
►
I can see how it would be kind of convenient
00:17:47
◼
►
and neat to have it around.
00:17:48
◼
►
- Yeah, orientation lock is the one
00:17:50
◼
►
that kind of turned my head.
00:17:50
◼
►
I'm like, yeah, I wish I missed the orientation lock
00:17:52
◼
►
on the iPads, you know?
00:17:53
◼
►
- Yes, amen. - And like having orientation,
00:17:55
◼
►
even though it's just in control center
00:17:56
◼
►
and you know, it's not that far away,
00:17:58
◼
►
but you know, some apps have to do the double flick
00:18:00
◼
►
to get it up.
00:18:00
◼
►
Anyway, if it was always available, like if you get,
00:18:04
◼
►
what I'm saying is that if you get used to having it there,
00:18:06
◼
►
if it's like, if it's the cultural thing to do,
00:18:07
◼
►
'cause that's what this is,
00:18:08
◼
►
this is not a technical thing,
00:18:09
◼
►
and this is not even a preference thing.
00:18:12
◼
►
At the point where the person you buy your phone from
00:18:14
◼
►
is setting it up for you,
00:18:15
◼
►
it's a cultural thing at that point.
00:18:17
◼
►
There's no longer anything to do with personal preference,
00:18:19
◼
►
let alone accessibility.
00:18:20
◼
►
So fine, it's a cultural thing to have this thing on.
00:18:22
◼
►
Hopefully there are some advantages, and there are.
00:18:26
◼
►
Like it's breeding a set of users
00:18:29
◼
►
who are good at flicking that little puck around the screen
00:18:31
◼
►
and who each person customizes it to do the features
00:18:34
◼
►
that they want to have quickly accessible,
00:18:36
◼
►
the cost is that they're flicking this little thing
00:18:38
◼
►
around the screen that's on top.
00:18:39
◼
►
Now I would say to the people who care,
00:18:41
◼
►
because maybe you don't, maybe you're happy,
00:18:43
◼
►
you're like, this is the way we do it all here
00:18:44
◼
►
and this is just how you use a phone,
00:18:45
◼
►
I don't care what you say about it, that's fine.
00:18:46
◼
►
But I would say, try it without assistive touch.
00:18:50
◼
►
Use the home button until it breaks.
00:18:52
◼
►
Once it breaks, go back to assistive touch.
00:18:54
◼
►
If you're not reselling your phone,
00:18:56
◼
►
I feel like that may give you a glimpse at how,
00:19:00
◼
►
all I can speak over is the US,
00:19:01
◼
►
but how I think most people in the US are using iOS.
00:19:04
◼
►
And I guess the US side is maybe try assistive touch,
00:19:09
◼
►
see what everyone else is doing,
00:19:10
◼
►
smushing that little puck around the screen
00:19:12
◼
►
to get it out of the way of the stuff they're trying to read
00:19:14
◼
►
and see if you think it's an advantage.
00:19:15
◼
►
Maybe you get into a habit of leaving it right
00:19:17
◼
►
near your thumb, you know,
00:19:18
◼
►
whatever grip you have on your phone,
00:19:20
◼
►
that could be a good thing.
00:19:21
◼
►
But it's hard for me to get away from the notion
00:19:25
◼
►
that people are badly, badly misassessing the risk
00:19:29
◼
►
of breaking home buttons on the current iPhones,
00:19:31
◼
►
even on the 4, I would say,
00:19:33
◼
►
universally using AssistiveTouch
00:19:34
◼
►
for fear of home button breakage
00:19:36
◼
►
is a terrible decision rationality-wise,
00:19:40
◼
►
but if you set that aside and say,
00:19:43
◼
►
"Whatever, let's just pretend they're doing this,"
00:19:46
◼
►
there can be advantages.
00:19:47
◼
►
And I think it's something that Apple will have to,
00:19:52
◼
►
I mean, maybe they already are,
00:19:53
◼
►
that's why we talked about it last time.
00:19:54
◼
►
Maybe they're looking at this and that's why they made the home button that doesn't move.
00:19:57
◼
►
But that Apple will have to think about if they're ever going towards this mythical home
00:20:02
◼
►
button that we've discussed where like the whole iPhone is screen and you just put your
00:20:05
◼
►
fingers somewhere on the screen for touch ID and the home button is on the screen.
00:20:09
◼
►
Like the fully screened iPhone.
00:20:11
◼
►
Maybe that's not going to be next year's.
00:20:12
◼
►
Maybe next year is just going to bring in the margins on the phone.
00:20:15
◼
►
But everyone has been talking about it for years and years.
00:20:18
◼
►
What if it was all just screen and the home button was a screen.
00:20:21
◼
►
Remember in the early days of the iPhone, it was basically religion amongst the Apple
00:20:25
◼
►
nerds, like, "No, don't you understand the genius of the one physical button?"
00:20:29
◼
►
And it's true, that was genius, but things evolve.
00:20:31
◼
►
Yeah, we also said that was the one best screen size that we would always use.
00:20:35
◼
►
Well, speak for yourself.
00:20:37
◼
►
I'm saying the Apple nerds were all wrong.
00:20:39
◼
►
It's obvious I don't include myself in that group.
00:20:42
◼
►
But yeah, things had their time and place, right?
00:20:46
◼
►
Things evolved.
00:20:47
◼
►
a good example of that is even Apple had to eventually concede to the notion of
00:20:50
◼
►
right-click. Like they don't put two buttons on their mice but you can
00:20:53
◼
►
right-click on them, right? So things do evolve and it's best not to be stubborn
00:20:57
◼
►
like Apple is by not putting a legit right-click button on their mice and
00:21:00
◼
►
making you lift your other finger which is annoying. Anyway, things do evolve and
00:21:05
◼
►
it could be that the phones eventually evolve to the point where they're all
00:21:07
◼
►
screen and if they do evolve to the point where they're all screen, guess what
00:21:10
◼
►
entire section of the globe has been practicing for years and years using a
00:21:13
◼
►
phone entirely touching the screen without touching the home button. Yeah
00:21:16
◼
►
And so maybe they can learn something from the use of assisted touch over there to influence
00:21:21
◼
►
How not to screw this up when they finally take away the home button entirely and mark it was ballistic
00:21:25
◼
►
I'll be fine. I mean the current the one of the seven already is mediocre. So it's fine
00:21:31
◼
►
Easing you into it. There's small degrees of anger. Yeah, same thing, you know with the headphone jack
00:21:36
◼
►
It's like yeah, okay now like here's what the way here's what they're gonna do
00:21:38
◼
►
They're gonna start leaking to the Wall Street Journal in Bloomberg in February
00:21:43
◼
►
that the next iPhone is not gonna have a home button at all
00:21:46
◼
►
and it'll be all screen
00:21:48
◼
►
and then we'll all get mad about it over the summer
00:21:51
◼
►
and then by the time the fall comes around,
00:21:53
◼
►
everyone will be like duh, it has no home button,
00:21:55
◼
►
that's old news.
00:21:56
◼
►
- I think you've got a while to go on that
00:21:58
◼
►
'cause I think my, based on nothing,
00:22:01
◼
►
my impression is that we're not there yet for the Touch ID
00:22:04
◼
►
like to go through the screen.
00:22:06
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, there was a patent about it a few years back
00:22:08
◼
►
but that's a whole different thing
00:22:09
◼
►
from being able to ship a billion of those.
00:22:11
◼
►
- Yeah, especially since next year's iPhone is OLED, right?
00:22:14
◼
►
So I think next year is all about OLED and the screen
00:22:17
◼
►
and getting everything tucked in there.
00:22:18
◼
►
I think they can't do OLED at the same time
00:22:20
◼
►
as they figure out some magical technology
00:22:22
◼
►
to bury Touch ID under it.
00:22:23
◼
►
So I'm gonna guess, based on nothing,
00:22:26
◼
►
next year's OLED but Touch ID will not be on the screen.
00:22:29
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, and in all fairness,
00:22:31
◼
►
pretty much every other manufacturer
00:22:32
◼
►
has figured out how to put touch sensors
00:22:34
◼
►
on the back of the phone,
00:22:35
◼
►
and I always assumed that would be bad and weird,
00:22:38
◼
►
but from people who actually use them,
00:22:39
◼
►
they seem to be okay with it.
00:22:40
◼
►
So that could be another solution.
00:22:42
◼
►
- The whole back of the phone's supposed to be a camera,
00:22:43
◼
►
not a touch sensor.
00:22:46
◼
►
Right now, the whole back of the phone is a fingerprint,
00:22:48
◼
►
what do you call it, like the things at the police station
00:22:50
◼
►
where they take your fingerprints?
00:22:51
◼
►
- Right, exactly, that's why it's perfect.
00:22:53
◼
►
If it's already gonna be covered in fingerprints,
00:22:54
◼
►
might as well use it for touch ID.
00:22:56
◼
►
- Right, but you won't even need your finger there.
00:22:57
◼
►
They'll unlock automatically
00:22:58
◼
►
just from your leftover finger grease.
00:23:02
◼
►
- We are sponsored this week by Betterment.
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That's betterment.com/ATP.
00:24:02
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Betterment, investing made better.
00:24:07
◼
►
Moving on, Scott O'Reilly, who is creator of The Dash, a prior sponsor of the show,
00:24:12
◼
►
he made a discovery a few days back.
00:24:15
◼
►
He was, I guess, listening to regular headphones with the Lightning to headphone adapter and
00:24:21
◼
►
had paused his headphones, or paused, I should say paused the phone and whatever it was playing.
00:24:26
◼
►
He came back after five minutes and he couldn't use the little bulbous dongly thing on his
00:24:33
◼
►
headphones in order to restart audio.
00:24:36
◼
►
So he dug into this a little bit and eventually made a truly wonderful demonstration video,
00:24:42
◼
►
which we'll link in the show notes, where he left a recording for some total of like
00:24:47
◼
►
six or seven minutes, but basically played a little bit, I believe, of our show, paused
00:24:51
◼
►
it by way of the headphones, and then let it sit for five minutes, came back, and sure
00:24:56
◼
►
enough when he tried via the headphones to unpause it, it didn't work.
00:25:00
◼
►
And so this was quite the brouhaha because when a new phone comes out, that's what everyone
00:25:06
◼
►
that someone goes looking for.
00:25:07
◼
►
And somewhere, although I don't have a link handy
00:25:10
◼
►
at the moment, and we'll put something in the show notes,
00:25:11
◼
►
we'll find it later, apparently Apple has said
00:25:13
◼
►
to someone some way, somehow, that yeah,
00:25:15
◼
►
this is a bug, we're gonna fix it.
00:25:17
◼
►
- Yeah, and ATP Tipster said earlier in the chat,
00:25:19
◼
►
for whatever it's worth, that we should probably expect
00:25:22
◼
►
a 10.02 update, roughly in a week or two,
00:25:25
◼
►
but I think he said next week, that will fix that bug,
00:25:29
◼
►
along with the microphone cutting out bug
00:25:33
◼
►
that has hit both me and Tiff during phone calls,
00:25:36
◼
►
and I puncture out the little bugs.
00:25:37
◼
►
So hopefully this will be fixed quickly.
00:25:40
◼
►
- Yeah, it's good to get that feedback too,
00:25:41
◼
►
because especially with the lighting headphones,
00:25:42
◼
►
where we're like, we don't know what the rules are
00:25:44
◼
►
of this new lighting. - Right.
00:25:45
◼
►
- This headphone portless future,
00:25:46
◼
►
we're like, is this to say,
00:25:48
◼
►
people are like, is this to say battery,
00:25:50
◼
►
or is this a feature that's supposed to be there?
00:25:52
◼
►
But I was like, it was so nice to hear very quickly
00:25:54
◼
►
from Apple sources through whatever means they have,
00:25:56
◼
►
like, no, it's just, it's not supposed to work that way,
00:25:58
◼
►
they'll fix it.
00:25:59
◼
►
Hopefully they will actually fix it,
00:26:00
◼
►
because if this ends up being like,
00:26:02
◼
►
oh, we'll try to fix it again, every point release,
00:26:04
◼
►
and it keeps being wonky, that's gonna be bad.
00:26:07
◼
►
But anyway, they're not supposed to work like this.
00:26:10
◼
►
It's not a feature that's like,
00:26:12
◼
►
"Well, now that you've given up the headphone port,
00:26:13
◼
►
"I'm sorry, you paused too long and it's gone."
00:26:16
◼
►
- I love the idea of ATP Tipster
00:26:17
◼
►
as like a PR outlet for Apple.
00:26:22
◼
►
- And to be fair, ATP Tipster just provided us a link
00:26:26
◼
►
to 9to5Mac where the headline is,
00:26:28
◼
►
"Apple says a fix is coming for lightning headphones bug
00:26:30
◼
►
"that causes playback controls to stop working."
00:26:33
◼
►
Apparently they made the statement originally though
00:26:35
◼
►
to Business Insider.
00:26:36
◼
►
And as much as it pains me, I will,
00:26:38
◼
►
yes, as much as it pains me, I'll put that link in the show notes.
00:26:40
◼
►
- Isn't there any other site they talk to?
00:26:42
◼
►
Like should they talk to iMore or Dalrymple?
00:26:44
◼
►
Doesn't anybody else?
00:26:45
◼
►
- I don't think so.
00:26:46
◼
►
- Everyone else reported on the Business Insider article.
00:26:48
◼
►
I hate when that happens.
00:26:50
◼
►
- It's the worst.
00:26:51
◼
►
All right, moving on.
00:26:54
◼
►
But that was a very interesting find by Scott O'Reilly.
00:26:56
◼
►
And I was really pleased to see that demo video.
00:26:59
◼
►
And it wasn't sensational.
00:27:01
◼
►
wasn't look at me talking for 20 minutes about how awful this is it was just very plain as day
00:27:06
◼
►
I'm going to show you what happens make of it what you will so well done Scott O'Reilly
00:27:09
◼
►
It's very failure to communicate in tweets though because that was the problem like I remember he
00:27:13
◼
►
originally tweeted yeah people were like I tried to do it that doesn't happen for me it was like it
00:27:17
◼
►
was reading comprehension and and difficulty of fitting a thought into 140 characters or whatever
00:27:23
◼
►
it is with the new limit rules because it was like it doesn't happen to me and like wait are
00:27:27
◼
►
Are you playing the song and then it cuts out after five minutes?
00:27:30
◼
►
Or are you like, people didn't understand what was going on in a video was just the
00:27:33
◼
►
most straightforward way to say, this is what I'm doing.
00:27:35
◼
►
Look, here it is.
00:27:36
◼
►
And then, then everyone finally understood what he was talking about and then everyone
00:27:41
◼
►
could see that this is a real thing that happens.
00:27:43
◼
►
Yeah, I didn't understand either.
00:27:44
◼
►
And I thought he meant with any sort of headphones and I tried it with my lightning ones and
00:27:48
◼
►
I was like, oh, this works great.
00:27:49
◼
►
What are you talking about?
00:27:50
◼
►
And then it turns out it was the adapter that was the problem.
00:27:52
◼
►
So fair enough.
00:27:54
◼
►
Speaking of, this isn't in the show notes here,
00:27:56
◼
►
but we should probably talk about it.
00:27:58
◼
►
Apparently a teardown has been done
00:28:01
◼
►
and there is a digital and analog converter
00:28:03
◼
►
in the Lightning to 3.5 millimeter headphone adapter.
00:28:08
◼
►
- Yep, it's basically exactly what we speculated last time,
00:28:11
◼
►
which was, yes, there's probably a little tiny DAC amp
00:28:14
◼
►
in the headphone adapter because that's just easier
00:28:16
◼
►
and they're really cheap.
00:28:17
◼
►
And it's probably at the lightning end of the cable.
00:28:21
◼
►
And sure enough, yeah, the teardown verifies
00:28:23
◼
►
all that is exactly the case. Nothing really exciting here.
00:28:26
◼
►
You're still confused about this. Last show I was talking specifically about the Lightning
00:28:30
◼
►
earphones. Obviously it's in the Lightning end on the adapter, but just the plain old
00:28:34
◼
►
earphones that don't have an adapter, the ones that come in the box, that's the strangely
00:28:38
◼
►
funny part is the promise of digital audio is that the digital signal will get a couple
00:28:43
◼
►
of millimeters out of your phone before it gets converted. Obviously it's going to get
00:28:45
◼
►
converted by the adapter, but even the headphones it looks like, which makes sense because they're
00:28:49
◼
►
going to use the same little lightning connector end.
00:28:53
◼
►
The headphones, the audio returns analog as soon as it hits the adapter, and then it's
00:28:57
◼
►
just plain old dirty analog signals going over those wires to your earpods, which apparently
00:29:02
◼
►
don't have any little dacs in them.
00:29:04
◼
►
Although looking at the size of these chips, it seems like they could have fit in the earpods
00:29:06
◼
►
if they wanted to, but then why get two when you can just have one?
00:29:09
◼
►
Why improve the quality over the wire to those terrible little earpods?
00:29:13
◼
►
Yeah, I know.
00:29:14
◼
►
It doesn't make a difference.
00:29:15
◼
►
It was just, you know.
00:29:16
◼
►
So from what I understand, I've read conflicting reviews
00:29:19
◼
►
on this from people who have tested out the new AirPods,
00:29:22
◼
►
but most, I read a couple reviews that said
00:29:24
◼
►
they sound exactly like just a wireless version
00:29:27
◼
►
of the wired ones that we've had for years,
00:29:29
◼
►
which would be pretty disappointing
00:29:30
◼
►
'cause the wired ones sound terrible.
00:29:32
◼
►
But most of the reviews have said
00:29:33
◼
►
they sound noticeably better.
00:29:35
◼
►
So I am actually now curious about them.
00:29:37
◼
►
I have my doubts on whether they will fit me at all,
00:29:42
◼
►
whether I'll be able to wear them comfortably,
00:29:44
◼
►
but some people have said that they could never comfortably
00:29:46
◼
►
wear the other ones, but these are now comfortable to them.
00:29:49
◼
►
So I'm interested.
00:29:51
◼
►
- Yeah, I've read that as well too,
00:29:52
◼
►
and I don't understand that, because every picture,
00:29:56
◼
►
like they look the same.
00:29:57
◼
►
Is there a scale thing on the picture,
00:29:59
◼
►
or is there a perspective thing?
00:30:00
◼
►
- Well part of it could be like, if the weight of the wire--
00:30:03
◼
►
- Oh, the wire.
00:30:04
◼
►
The wire's not pulling on it.
00:30:05
◼
►
- If that, yeah, like that could affect
00:30:06
◼
►
how it fits for you in practice, but I don't know.
00:30:09
◼
►
I think it's unlikely I will end up liking them,
00:30:12
◼
►
and if I hate them, I'll just give them to Tiff,
00:30:13
◼
►
but, 'cause she wears those ear pods sometimes,
00:30:16
◼
►
so that's fine.
00:30:17
◼
►
I should probably test all the Bluetooth headphones
00:30:19
◼
►
that exist in the world anyway for my big headphone review.
00:30:22
◼
►
But yeah, basically, I'm curious about them.
00:30:24
◼
►
Everyone says they work really well.
00:30:26
◼
►
I'm pretty happy with my Bluetooth headphones,
00:30:28
◼
►
my little Sennheiser Bluetooth things.
00:30:30
◼
►
But, you know, if worse comes to worse,
00:30:33
◼
►
I guess I'll get something to review.
00:30:35
◼
►
My one reservation on AirPods,
00:30:39
◼
►
which I think every review has pointed out so far,
00:30:41
◼
►
and many people on Twitter have pointed out as well
00:30:43
◼
►
who are speculating about it,
00:30:45
◼
►
I do think that it will be annoying
00:30:47
◼
►
to not have any kind of meaningful remote control ability
00:30:50
◼
►
on them except either Siri or Play Pause.
00:30:53
◼
►
Like to not have an easy volume control.
00:30:55
◼
►
- Or your watch.
00:30:56
◼
►
- But that's still not as fast as reaching
00:30:59
◼
►
through the clicker and hitting a button.
00:31:00
◼
►
And yeah, not my watch.
00:31:01
◼
►
- No, that's the bad you made yourself.
00:31:04
◼
►
- Even with the Apple Watch.
00:31:06
◼
►
By the way, on my watch, telling the time 100 times a day
00:31:09
◼
►
is way faster than telling the time on your Apple Watch.
00:31:12
◼
►
It also doesn't need to be charged ever.
00:31:14
◼
►
But anyway, that's the bet you make Casey.
00:31:15
◼
►
- You just need to buy a winder for it.
00:31:18
◼
►
- It wasn't for the ones I was wearing.
00:31:21
◼
►
- Yeah, that's the thing, that's the best part
00:31:22
◼
►
is that that's really a thing.
00:31:23
◼
►
You can get your watch case with an automatic winder.
00:31:25
◼
►
- It's totally optional.
00:31:27
◼
►
- Totally barbaric.
00:31:28
◼
►
- You can also hire a man named Jeeves to wind them for you.
00:31:31
◼
►
- That sounds amazing.
00:31:31
◼
►
- Can you ask him stuff too?
00:31:33
◼
►
Anantech, or NonTech, or however you pronounce this,
00:31:36
◼
►
reports on a Chipworks report that says
00:31:39
◼
►
there's three audio amps in the phone.
00:31:41
◼
►
And so they say, this is a non-Tech, AnandTech, however you pronounce it,
00:31:45
◼
►
"One interesting aspect of the Chipworks report is that they unexpectedly found a third audio amplifier.
00:31:50
◼
►
Chipworks was expecting to find two, one for each of the speakers, but came up with a third.
00:31:54
◼
►
The firm believes that the third amp may be for headphones, which in turn would mean that Apple significantly revised the lightning port specification for the iPhone 7.
00:32:07
◼
►
Previously, lightning has only carried digital audio, which doesn't require an amp in the phone itself.
00:32:11
◼
►
In the initial iPhone 7 announcement, I had speculated that Apple put the DAC and AMP
00:32:16
◼
►
inside their 3.5mm adapter, which we now know is true, which would be consistent with how
00:32:20
◼
►
Lightning has worked for over the last four years, but this cast doubt on that area, or
00:32:23
◼
►
on that idea.
00:32:24
◼
►
So now, this was written before this teardown that we were just speaking of.
00:32:28
◼
►
So why the third AMP then?
00:32:31
◼
►
Obviously, it's because it's easier to put that in there and then you can make a go/no
00:32:36
◼
►
go on the headphone port removal at any time.
00:32:38
◼
►
That's my guess.
00:32:39
◼
►
There's three in there, but there's three in the 6S, right?
00:32:43
◼
►
Or there would be one for the headphone, not three, because there's only one speaker.
00:32:46
◼
►
But anyway, you know what I mean.
00:32:48
◼
►
It's there for the headphone jack that's not there.
00:32:50
◼
►
That's totally a thing.
00:32:51
◼
►
I mean, do you remember, what was it?
00:32:53
◼
►
I think it was an iPod Touch or something that if you took it apart, you saw there was
00:32:57
◼
►
a hole for where the thing was supposed to be.
00:32:59
◼
►
This is just part of hardware manufacturing.
00:33:01
◼
►
You recover your bets.
00:33:02
◼
►
Those little chips cost nothing.
00:33:03
◼
►
If they have the space for it, they're going to put it there.
00:33:05
◼
►
so then they have the option once they finalize the spec
00:33:08
◼
►
and all the electrical, you know, blah, blah, blah.
00:33:10
◼
►
That's my guess, unless they were just totally wrong
00:33:12
◼
►
and misidentify the chip,
00:33:13
◼
►
unless it's used for some other purpose,
00:33:14
◼
►
someone in Apple hardware can tell us,
00:33:16
◼
►
but it's totally plausible to me
00:33:18
◼
►
that that's just a thing that they put there
00:33:19
◼
►
that they didn't happen to use.
00:33:20
◼
►
- I mean, it's also possible,
00:33:21
◼
►
like the second one could be used for the second speaker.
00:33:24
◼
►
Like they might not be running one amp
00:33:26
◼
►
to drive two speakers,
00:33:27
◼
►
maybe they have one in each of them
00:33:28
◼
►
for various electrical convenience reasons
00:33:31
◼
►
or better cable routing or less power.
00:33:34
◼
►
- That's what I said, but there's three of them though.
00:33:36
◼
►
- Right, well, one for each speaker and one for,
00:33:39
◼
►
oh yeah, I guess.
00:33:40
◼
►
- Yeah, math is hard.
00:33:42
◼
►
- Well, it could be for the microphone.
00:33:43
◼
►
I mean, these things are so cheap,
00:33:45
◼
►
and like, anytime you're running analog audio traces
00:33:48
◼
►
on a circuit board in a digital device
00:33:50
◼
►
full of various, you know, interference sources,
00:33:53
◼
►
you have to be pretty careful where you can run those
00:33:55
◼
►
without picking up noise and other problems
00:33:57
◼
►
on the analog signals.
00:33:59
◼
►
And because these little DAC amp chips are so tiny
00:34:02
◼
►
and so dirt cheap, you can basically put them
00:34:05
◼
►
wherever you feel like, wherever it's convenient
00:34:06
◼
►
for the rest of your needs.
00:34:08
◼
►
So if it's most convenient to have another one
00:34:11
◼
►
for the microphone and not use the same one
00:34:13
◼
►
that is used by the bottom speaker,
00:34:16
◼
►
then they can do that, it's really no big deal.
00:34:18
◼
►
These chips are tiny and cost nothing.
00:34:20
◼
►
- Anyway, if the goal was to figure out
00:34:23
◼
►
whether the adapters use a DAC,
00:34:25
◼
►
the best way to do it was to open up the DACs
00:34:26
◼
►
and that's what people did.
00:34:27
◼
►
Although, people have opened them up
00:34:29
◼
►
and melted off all the plastic
00:34:31
◼
►
and seeing the little number on the chips.
00:34:34
◼
►
But because Apple uses so many custom things and everything,
00:34:37
◼
►
I don't know if anyone has tracked that number down
00:34:39
◼
►
and said definitively that this is a DAC amp thing,
00:34:41
◼
►
but that's what everyone believes it to be,
00:34:43
◼
►
and it totally makes sense.
00:34:44
◼
►
So I would consider this matter settled
00:34:47
◼
►
until somebody says, "Wait, wait, wait,
00:34:48
◼
►
that chip actually isn't doing what you think it is."
00:34:51
◼
►
- All right, so John, you seem to be claiming
00:34:54
◼
►
by way of the show notes and links to Twitter
00:34:56
◼
►
that you are semi-clearvoyant.
00:34:58
◼
►
Would you like to talk about this?
00:34:59
◼
►
No, I was just thinking about the Jet Black phone,
00:35:03
◼
►
because I'm still in the deciding mode
00:35:06
◼
►
of whether I'm going to get Jet Black or not,
00:35:07
◼
►
and whether I'm going to use it without a case.
00:35:09
◼
►
And anyway, like I said, I got to see it in person,
00:35:11
◼
►
and so on and so forth.
00:35:12
◼
►
But we're at the phase now where people
00:35:13
◼
►
have their Jet Black iPhones,
00:35:15
◼
►
and are posting pictures of their various scratches,
00:35:17
◼
►
or in the case of Christina Warren,
00:35:18
◼
►
their gigantic dents, and saying,
00:35:21
◼
►
"This is what a Jet Black iPhone's going to look like,
00:35:23
◼
►
either fingerprint-wise, or the scratches, or whatever."
00:35:25
◼
►
And I have to decide whether that's worth it to me,
00:35:28
◼
►
and so on and so forth.
00:35:29
◼
►
And it made me think again about a topic that I have visited in past podcasts.
00:35:34
◼
►
And I tried to do some research.
00:35:36
◼
►
So I was like, isn't there an episode where I talked about this?
00:35:39
◼
►
And in doing my research, I found out there's like 900 episodes
00:35:42
◼
►
where I talked about this.
00:35:42
◼
►
I talked about all the time for like cumulatively hours.
00:35:47
◼
►
So, you know, it's good that I don't remember my past that well.
00:35:49
◼
►
But anyway, because I did all the research, I'm not going
00:35:51
◼
►
to bore you all with it now.
00:35:53
◼
►
We'll put a bunch of links in the show notes to me talking about the issue of
00:35:58
◼
►
electronics and how they wear as you use them. As they get older, do they look crappier and
00:36:04
◼
►
you like them less, or do they develop a patina or become familiar and you love them more
00:36:11
◼
►
as they age and they become worn in? That dichotomy has been discussed by many people
00:36:17
◼
►
on the web. In fact, these early episodes of Hypercritical where I talk about this,
00:36:20
◼
►
I'm just citing a blog post that themselves comes from years earlier. I think the last
00:36:25
◼
►
Last time it came up in our little circle in a big way was with the iPhone 5, with the
00:36:30
◼
►
original black back on the iPhone 5 where the black would scratch off and you'd see
00:36:33
◼
►
the aluminum color and everything.
00:36:35
◼
►
That was the jet black of the day where I was complaining about the scratches.
00:36:40
◼
►
And at that time, this was 2012, I tweeted that an iPhone with three scratches may look
00:36:44
◼
►
awful but best case an iPhone with 5,000 scratches would look like the Millennium Falcon.
00:36:49
◼
►
And that was me trying to give my view of like, "Alright, so one or two scratches is
00:36:53
◼
►
"Oh no, my beautiful, perfect iPhone 5 is now scratched."
00:36:57
◼
►
With a thousand scratches,
00:36:58
◼
►
everyone loves the Millennium Falcon, man.
00:36:59
◼
►
It looks like a hunk of junk,
00:37:00
◼
►
but it's got it where it counts.
00:37:02
◼
►
Like, you love the Millennium Falcon
00:37:04
◼
►
because it looks worn and lived in and everything.
00:37:07
◼
►
So that's what I was trying to get at.
00:37:09
◼
►
I don't know if the Jet Black iPhone qualifies for that.
00:37:11
◼
►
I don't know if any of Apple's current products do,
00:37:12
◼
►
but God, I talked about it so much on these podcasts.
00:37:14
◼
►
So we'll put links to these blog posts,
00:37:17
◼
►
some of them by Koi Vinh,
00:37:19
◼
►
someone who had that original iPhone
00:37:21
◼
►
that was really worn down.
00:37:22
◼
►
It looks super awesome.
00:37:23
◼
►
And the links will have timestamps in them
00:37:26
◼
►
using Marco's cool overcast timestamp jumping feature
00:37:29
◼
►
that works really well with CBR audio.
00:37:33
◼
►
So you can jump directly to the timestamp
00:37:36
◼
►
and listen to me talk about this for a long time
00:37:38
◼
►
and I'll spare you from it now.
00:37:40
◼
►
- Ed Ryan writes in to say the Bluetooth stack
00:37:42
◼
►
almost certainly doesn't bitstream
00:37:44
◼
►
without decoding to PCM first,
00:37:46
◼
►
you'd have no volume control.
00:37:47
◼
►
Marco, you wanna kinda translate that
00:37:49
◼
►
into regular human for me?
00:37:51
◼
►
- Sure, so last episode we were talking about
00:37:53
◼
►
Casey or audio file friends, they had a concern that in order for audio to be transmitted
00:37:58
◼
►
to Bluetooth headphones, it was generally being recompressed as in some other kind of
00:38:02
◼
►
lossy format depending on the headphones and the phone and you know, that could be used
00:38:06
◼
►
different codecs whether it was the old ATDP SBC thing or whether it was something more
00:38:11
◼
►
advanced like AptX or AAC. Basically, any audio sent to Bluetooth headphones is being
00:38:20
◼
►
encoded in some kind of lossy format
00:38:23
◼
►
in order to make that transmission happen
00:38:24
◼
►
in a practical way.
00:38:25
◼
►
And so one of the options that John, you had asked about,
00:38:29
◼
►
was what if, if you have an AAC audio source
00:38:34
◼
►
and you have headphones and a phone
00:38:36
◼
►
that can transmit over Bluetooth in the AAC format,
00:38:39
◼
►
would there be some kind of intelligence there
00:38:41
◼
►
that it could just like pass it through untouched
00:38:44
◼
►
so it wouldn't be decoding it and then re-encoding it
00:38:46
◼
►
and possibly incurring a quality loss there.
00:38:49
◼
►
And Ed Rine's pointing out here that basically
00:38:53
◼
►
if you don't decode it and then re-encode it
00:38:56
◼
►
back to the headphones, if you don't do that,
00:38:58
◼
►
you generally can't adjust the volume.
00:39:01
◼
►
And that's technically not entirely true.
00:39:04
◼
►
There are, like in the way the files are represented,
00:39:07
◼
►
in the way audio's represented in these lossy forms,
00:39:10
◼
►
it is actually possible in many cases,
00:39:13
◼
►
depending on the format, to adjust the volume
00:39:16
◼
►
without transcoding it, basically.
00:39:18
◼
►
to actually modify the encoded compressed data,
00:39:21
◼
►
because a lot of times it's represented as frequency,
00:39:24
◼
►
volume, frequency, volume,
00:39:25
◼
►
and so you can just drop those volume values.
00:39:28
◼
►
Now, it doesn't know, you can't always do it,
00:39:30
◼
►
depending on the exact encoding,
00:39:32
◼
►
but it is technically possible to do that in some cases.
00:39:36
◼
►
However, that's a lot of complexity
00:39:38
◼
►
in addition to all the other complexity
00:39:39
◼
►
that would be involved in passing this bitstream
00:39:41
◼
►
through unmodified or minimally modified
00:39:43
◼
►
without decoding to regular samples first.
00:39:46
◼
►
So basically this isn't happening.
00:39:48
◼
►
And I should also point out a friend of the show,
00:39:51
◼
►
Mark Edwards, from Bijango Software,
00:39:53
◼
►
makers of the amazing iStat Menus app,
00:39:56
◼
►
which everyone here except John uses.
00:39:59
◼
►
- True story.
00:40:00
◼
►
- He's an audiophile, and one of the good ones.
00:40:03
◼
►
And he and I had a Twitter exchange earlier.
00:40:06
◼
►
Basically, my position last episode
00:40:09
◼
►
on whether Bluetooth lossy codecs matter,
00:40:13
◼
►
My position is basically Bluetooth headphones
00:40:16
◼
►
have such mediocre headphone drivers,
00:40:19
◼
►
like the actual speaker parts of the headphones,
00:40:21
◼
►
they're so mediocre on almost everything that's out there
00:40:24
◼
►
that whatever quality loss you might incur
00:40:29
◼
►
by effectively double encoding your music
00:40:31
◼
►
would be undetectable compared to the poor quality
00:40:34
◼
►
of the headphones themselves.
00:40:35
◼
►
You'd need better quality headphones
00:40:38
◼
►
to really hear that difference.
00:40:40
◼
►
And so Mark took me to task for that,
00:40:43
◼
►
Understandably, he's right.
00:40:45
◼
►
You know, that is kind of a separate issue.
00:40:47
◼
►
Like, Bluetooth headphones could get better.
00:40:50
◼
►
Maybe the reason they don't have better drivers
00:40:52
◼
►
is because when you put better drivers
00:40:53
◼
►
in Bluetooth headphones, maybe they sound crap
00:40:55
◼
►
because of the double encoding.
00:40:57
◼
►
So that is totally a valid counterargument
00:40:59
◼
►
to what I was saying, which I didn't really consider.
00:41:01
◼
►
But thanks to Mark Edwards for pointing that out.
00:41:05
◼
►
It is possible this is audible,
00:41:07
◼
►
and maybe we'll do some experiments and try.
00:41:11
◼
►
But the bigger problem right now is that Bluetooth headphones
00:41:13
◼
►
are generally pretty mediocre sounding.
00:41:16
◼
►
So if this is a problem, we can't tell.
00:41:19
◼
►
- One more thing on the bitstreaming.
00:41:21
◼
►
The solution to that, if they wanted to bitstream,
00:41:23
◼
►
is you gotta put the volume control on the headphones.
00:41:25
◼
►
And obviously that's not gonna work on little tiny ear pods,
00:41:27
◼
►
but if you had big honking headphones,
00:41:29
◼
►
you can bitstream to them,
00:41:30
◼
►
and the DAC would be in the headphones,
00:41:32
◼
►
and the volume control could also be there in theory.
00:41:35
◼
►
Not that I think they're gonna do that, but.
00:41:37
◼
►
- Many Bluetooth headphones have volume control built in.
00:41:39
◼
►
And it's kind of like one of the ways that they differ
00:41:42
◼
►
is like some of them, when you push the volume buttons
00:41:45
◼
►
on the headphone, it just controls the source devices
00:41:48
◼
►
logical volume for that headphone.
00:41:50
◼
►
So like basically you'd have one unified volume control
00:41:53
◼
►
and if you push the button on the headphone,
00:41:55
◼
►
it's not like doing that reduction in the headphone,
00:41:58
◼
►
it's sending the command to the phone saying,
00:42:00
◼
►
hey drop your volume by one increment or whatever.
00:42:02
◼
►
So some headphones do that and some,
00:42:04
◼
►
especially older ones, maintain their own volume control
00:42:07
◼
►
in addition to the phone's volume control
00:42:09
◼
►
which is, it allows more control,
00:42:11
◼
►
but it's also kind of annoying.
00:42:12
◼
►
Like if the phone is set really low
00:42:13
◼
►
and you keep pushing up on the headphone,
00:42:15
◼
►
it's like maxed out and you can't tell why it's too quiet.
00:42:18
◼
►
So it's kind of annoying there.
00:42:19
◼
►
But anyway, usually having one unified volume control
00:42:24
◼
►
being, you know, the headphone controls
00:42:27
◼
►
are actually telling the phone what to do,
00:42:28
◼
►
that is generally better, which would have this problem.
00:42:31
◼
►
(upbeat music)
00:42:33
◼
►
We're also sponsored this week by Linode.
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$10 credit using promo code ACCIDENTALPODCAST10.
00:44:13
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►
Thank you very much to Linode for sponsoring our show.
00:44:16
◼
►
(upbeat music)
00:44:19
◼
►
- So we should talk about what phones we have
00:44:23
◼
►
and the process by which we retrieve them.
00:44:25
◼
►
And since I got so angry at Jon last episode
00:44:29
◼
►
about his preposterous claim that accessibility
00:44:31
◼
►
is also his personal private stereo set if you will.
00:44:34
◼
►
Not my claim.
00:44:35
◼
►
Do you want to tell me again that I think the default should be different?
00:44:42
◼
►
Because you seem to be stuck on that one for a while, too.
00:44:44
◼
►
No, I'm just—I'm just poking.
00:44:47
◼
►
So I think this is the time when Marco and I get angry at each other, but we need to
00:44:51
◼
►
meander to that.
00:44:53
◼
►
What did you end up getting, Marco?
00:44:56
◼
►
And why were you on the news, exactly?
00:44:59
◼
►
So I was on my—we went to go.
00:45:03
◼
►
We did an in-store pickup to get Tiff's phone.
00:45:05
◼
►
As I mentioned last week, I had some order trouble
00:45:08
◼
►
and then some waffling and then some order trouble
00:45:10
◼
►
with the waffling order and so basically I was unable
00:45:13
◼
►
to make an online order for what I ended up ordering
00:45:17
◼
►
which was a jet black regular size seven.
00:45:19
◼
►
Anyway, so we went to go pick up Tiff's on day one.
00:45:21
◼
►
Mine wasn't gonna be ready on day one.
00:45:22
◼
►
It was gonna be like mid-October or something.
00:45:24
◼
►
And it just so happened that while we were waiting online,
00:45:27
◼
►
a local news anchor wanted to do a segment
00:45:30
◼
►
on the incredibly long lines at Apple stores.
00:45:32
◼
►
Meanwhile, the line wasn't long at all,
00:45:33
◼
►
but that's beside the point.
00:45:34
◼
►
Obviously, it's the news.
00:45:35
◼
►
They're gonna do whatever they want anyway,
00:45:37
◼
►
regardless of the truth.
00:45:38
◼
►
So, the news anchor just asked the people
00:45:40
◼
►
who were right in front of her,
00:45:41
◼
►
which happened to be me and this other guy,
00:45:42
◼
►
she just asked us, "Hey, would we be willing
00:45:44
◼
►
"to go on camera live for the local news
00:45:46
◼
►
"and tell why we're waiting on line,
00:45:48
◼
►
"what our favorite features of the new iPhone are,
00:45:51
◼
►
"and whatever else?"
00:45:52
◼
►
And we said, "Sure."
00:45:53
◼
►
And there were no questions asked besides that.
00:45:55
◼
►
She didn't ask what we were gonna say.
00:45:56
◼
►
Well, she did, but then I lied.
00:45:58
◼
►
I said I was talking about the camera
00:45:59
◼
►
and how great it was.
00:46:01
◼
►
'cause that's what she wanted.
00:46:02
◼
►
- Look, however your story changes.
00:46:05
◼
►
She didn't ask what we were gonna say,
00:46:06
◼
►
well, she did ask what we were gonna say.
00:46:08
◼
►
- Yes, she kind of did.
00:46:09
◼
►
- She kind of prompted us with what she wanted us to say
00:46:12
◼
►
in the journalist standard of implying,
00:46:14
◼
►
here's what I wanna hear.
00:46:16
◼
►
And she didn't ask who we were or anything.
00:46:18
◼
►
She didn't know that I was an Apple person in some capacity.
00:46:21
◼
►
She had no idea.
00:46:22
◼
►
It didn't matter.
00:46:23
◼
►
It didn't come up, so fine.
00:46:24
◼
►
So yeah, turns the camera on,
00:46:26
◼
►
and I give a more sarcastic answer
00:46:29
◼
►
than I think everybody was expecting, and it was fun.
00:46:33
◼
►
So we could pick up Tisphone, it was fun.
00:46:35
◼
►
It's fine, we could get it back, whatever.
00:46:37
◼
►
So I, in the meantime-- - Well, slow down, slow down.
00:46:38
◼
►
So what did Tiff end up with, which model?
00:46:41
◼
►
- Regular size gold.
00:46:43
◼
►
Meanwhile, here I am, when I went into the store,
00:46:45
◼
►
I was able to finally see and pick up
00:46:48
◼
►
and feel both of the black models,
00:46:51
◼
►
and I decided right then, oh my god,
00:46:53
◼
►
I have to have the jet black,
00:46:54
◼
►
because the way it feels, it is so,
00:46:59
◼
►
If, like me, you have been out there
00:47:02
◼
►
unhappy with the 6 and 6S because they are slippery
00:47:06
◼
►
and they're hard to hold without a case,
00:47:08
◼
►
you want the Jet Black iPhone 7.
00:47:10
◼
►
Because it feels like,
00:47:13
◼
►
the back of it feels even more grippy than the screen.
00:47:18
◼
►
Like if you put your hand on glass
00:47:19
◼
►
and you feel the glass screen, that is grippier.
00:47:22
◼
►
Like your hand sticks to it better
00:47:24
◼
►
than it does to the slippery aluminum back of the phone.
00:47:27
◼
►
On the Jet Black, it's the opposite.
00:47:28
◼
►
The jet black, the phone is even grippier than the screen.
00:47:30
◼
►
It is so, it feels about as grippy
00:47:33
◼
►
as the old plastic phones did, or the iPhone 5C,
00:47:37
◼
►
the only kind of newish one.
00:47:39
◼
►
Very, very grippy, very easy to hold.
00:47:42
◼
►
The fact that it looks really cool from most angles
00:47:45
◼
►
and in most conditions, that to me is secondary.
00:47:48
◼
►
I don't care how the back of the phone looks really.
00:47:50
◼
►
I mean, I've lived with an ugly backed phone
00:47:53
◼
►
for the last two years.
00:47:54
◼
►
I think the 6 and 6S design looked hideous from the back.
00:47:57
◼
►
And for the 6S, I ended up using one of these
00:47:59
◼
►
dbrand vinyl skins for the second half of my ownership of it
00:48:02
◼
►
to cover up half the back just to give it a little more grip.
00:48:05
◼
►
The jet black 7 is even grippier
00:48:08
◼
►
than that dbrand vinyl skin was.
00:48:09
◼
►
Like it's so nice and grippy.
00:48:11
◼
►
So I immediately thought,
00:48:13
◼
►
I don't care how quickly this thing scratches,
00:48:15
◼
►
how bad it looks, I don't look at the back of my phone
00:48:17
◼
►
when I'm using it, but I'm always feeling
00:48:19
◼
►
the back of my phone when I'm using it.
00:48:21
◼
►
So grip matters more to me than looks.
00:48:23
◼
►
So of course I go home and try to get a jet black phone
00:48:25
◼
►
and I'm going through eBay and everything
00:48:28
◼
►
and it's just a disaster.
00:48:30
◼
►
Trying to buy anything ever on eBay,
00:48:33
◼
►
or sell it for that matter, is always a bit of a disaster.
00:48:36
◼
►
eBay is just a horrible place full of horrible people
00:48:38
◼
►
trying to scam each other,
00:48:40
◼
►
with eBay being one of those people
00:48:41
◼
►
trying to scam the sellers.
00:48:43
◼
►
Anyway, it's wonderful.
00:48:45
◼
►
So, it was a mess trying to get it on eBay.
00:48:49
◼
►
I did try, I bid on a few, but they were,
00:48:52
◼
►
the phone I wanted retailed for after tax
00:48:54
◼
►
about $800 and they were going on eBay for like $1200 and up. So I was like, "I don't
00:48:59
◼
►
really want to spend like $400 extra just for the privilege of getting it a little bit
00:49:04
◼
►
I started talking about it on Twitter and I was contacted by a guy named Chris Ries
00:49:09
◼
►
Hansen. He's the author of DoveNote Software. So I should give him a plug. He really went
00:49:14
◼
►
above and beyond here. DoveNote, like the bird, dovenote.com/pace is his main app. It's
00:49:21
◼
►
an app called Pace that lets you take breaks on the Mac
00:49:24
◼
►
while you're working, it's pretty cool.
00:49:25
◼
►
Chris from Dove Notes Software contacted me on Twitter
00:49:28
◼
►
and he said, "Hey, I have a JetBlack one that I just opened.
00:49:30
◼
►
"I decided I didn't want that color,
00:49:32
◼
►
"so I'm gonna return it,
00:49:33
◼
►
"but if you wanna sell it to you at cost."
00:49:35
◼
►
- Wow. - So this is pretty cool.
00:49:36
◼
►
- That is super cool.
00:49:37
◼
►
- If he would've just sold it on eBay,
00:49:39
◼
►
he could've made 400 bucks, right?
00:49:41
◼
►
But he didn't, he was a fan of the show,
00:49:42
◼
►
he wanted, you know, help me out, awesome.
00:49:45
◼
►
And the box comes, I'm signing forward with my UPS driver
00:49:50
◼
►
and I'm like, this is really light.
00:49:52
◼
►
This box seems like, is there really a phone in here?
00:49:55
◼
►
Like did he like not, did he like just send
00:49:57
◼
►
like the phone itself and not the packaging maybe?
00:49:59
◼
►
Like not, like it feels really light.
00:50:02
◼
►
And even the UPS driver's like, yeah,
00:50:03
◼
►
there's no phone in here, it's way too light.
00:50:05
◼
►
I'm like, okay.
00:50:07
◼
►
So I go inside, open it up and kind of fish through it
00:50:13
◼
►
and it's full of packing peanuts and only packing peanuts.
00:50:19
◼
►
the packing slip with the phone, the Apple packing slip,
00:50:22
◼
►
and a little card from Chris saying,
00:50:24
◼
►
"Hey, hope you enjoy it," he's a nice guy,
00:50:26
◼
►
and the plastic wrap to an iPhone box,
00:50:30
◼
►
which you can identify by the little green pull tab arrow
00:50:32
◼
►
on one side. - Oh, no.
00:50:35
◼
►
- You know, Chris, we had some common friends,
00:50:38
◼
►
so I was pretty sure he wasn't the scammer here,
00:50:40
◼
►
so I contacted him and I'm like,
00:50:42
◼
►
"Hey, we have a problem here,"
00:50:45
◼
►
and he was super great about it,
00:50:47
◼
►
So it turns out he drops it off at the store.
00:50:51
◼
►
He has a receipt at the store saying it weighed seven pounds
00:50:54
◼
►
when it left the store.
00:50:55
◼
►
- Oh goodness.
00:50:56
◼
►
- And it arrives with me weighing nothing
00:50:58
◼
►
and being filled with packing peanuts.
00:50:59
◼
►
- Seven pounds you say?
00:51:02
◼
►
- Go on, go on, just keep going.
00:51:04
◼
►
Just plow bravely ahead.
00:51:06
◼
►
- All right.
00:51:08
◼
►
So he immediately refunds my money.
00:51:10
◼
►
And if you're the buyer in this situation,
00:51:12
◼
►
if you use PayPal and you pay the goods rate,
00:51:15
◼
►
not like the sending people cash rate
00:51:17
◼
►
which eliminates the fee,
00:51:18
◼
►
look, there's a reason you pay those fees.
00:51:19
◼
►
Those fees cover you as the buyer.
00:51:21
◼
►
And when you're buying things,
00:51:22
◼
►
you should always do that option of the goods rate
00:51:25
◼
►
where there is a fee,
00:51:27
◼
►
even if the seller makes you pay the fee,
00:51:28
◼
►
which is actually, I think,
00:51:29
◼
►
against PayPal's terms of service to ask you to do that.
00:51:31
◼
►
But regardless, even if the seller makes you pay the fee,
00:51:34
◼
►
you need to do it that way
00:51:35
◼
►
because that protects you in situations like this.
00:51:37
◼
►
So anyway, I didn't have to file a claim
00:51:40
◼
►
'cause he's a nice guy
00:51:41
◼
►
and he immediately refunded the money.
00:51:43
◼
►
He's like, "I'll deal with it," 'cause it was insured.
00:51:45
◼
►
So he goes and deals with UPS
00:51:46
◼
►
and it's still in process, but he's working with them.
00:51:50
◼
►
I feel so bad for this guy,
00:51:51
◼
►
because here he was doing me this favor.
00:51:54
◼
►
- Yeah, he's trying to do you a solid.
00:51:55
◼
►
- Yeah, so now we've learned,
00:51:57
◼
►
don't send an iPhone right during iPhone mania time,
00:52:01
◼
►
and it's obviously an iPhone box,
00:52:04
◼
►
because people who work for UPS
00:52:07
◼
►
have seen a billion of these boxes over the last few days,
00:52:10
◼
►
and he sent it in the same box.
00:52:11
◼
►
That's the perfect opportunity if you're like,
00:52:14
◼
►
Anyway, so it was stolen.
00:52:17
◼
►
Now Chris is like stuck dealing with all this insurance
00:52:20
◼
►
crap with UPS and I feel really bad for him.
00:52:21
◼
►
So please look at his app, PACE, by DevNote Software.
00:52:24
◼
►
Making me feel a little bit better.
00:52:26
◼
►
- Oh, that sucks so much.
00:52:28
◼
►
- So then I was like, you know what, screw this.
00:52:30
◼
►
I am not gonna try to buy another phone on the internet.
00:52:34
◼
►
Like, I'll just get it through Apple.
00:52:37
◼
►
However long it takes, I don't care.
00:52:40
◼
►
I'll just, and this, I have bought so many things
00:52:44
◼
►
online, eBay, Amazon, everywhere else, individual sellers, people on forums. I've bought and
00:52:49
◼
►
sold so many things online. This is the first time I've ever had something stolen. So I
00:52:55
◼
►
emailed my business rep at the, or the Apple retail business rep at my two local stores
00:53:03
◼
►
on Monday morning just basically saying, you know, right after this whole whole happened,
00:53:06
◼
►
basically saying like, "Hey, if there's any kind of waiting list you can put me on
00:53:10
◼
►
on anything, please, you know, I could really use one.
00:53:13
◼
►
One of the stores said, sorry, we can't really do it,
00:53:16
◼
►
we don't know what we're gonna have.
00:53:17
◼
►
The other store said, yeah, I got two right here,
00:53:19
◼
►
you wanna come pick it up right now, you need both?
00:53:24
◼
►
So I, Monday, I went on Monday around lunch
00:53:29
◼
►
and picked up my brand new jet black iPhone 7,
00:53:33
◼
►
128 gig T-Mobile unlocked.
00:53:35
◼
►
I finally have it through a regular means
00:53:38
◼
►
And hopefully everybody buys Pace by DevNote Software
00:53:41
◼
►
so that Chris is less put out by this whole ordeal.
00:53:43
◼
►
And everything is fine now.
00:53:46
◼
►
- And you like it?
00:53:47
◼
►
- I think I love it.
00:53:49
◼
►
So here's the thing.
00:53:50
◼
►
As I said, the Jet Black finish is amazing.
00:53:54
◼
►
Like if you have any chance to,
00:53:57
◼
►
if you don't have one of these yet,
00:53:58
◼
►
if you have any chance to go handle one in a store,
00:54:01
◼
►
I strongly suggest you do it.
00:54:02
◼
►
If you're on the fence about whether you want Jet Black,
00:54:05
◼
►
really, really go try them.
00:54:06
◼
►
If you really value the grip of your phone,
00:54:09
◼
►
I'd say just order it blind.
00:54:10
◼
►
Just get it because it really does make a big difference.
00:54:14
◼
►
Mine is, of course, already has some minor
00:54:17
◼
►
micro abrasions on it, but I don't care.
00:54:20
◼
►
You can only see them in certain lighting.
00:54:21
◼
►
It's very much like, I would compare it to
00:54:26
◼
►
clear coat scratches on a black car,
00:54:28
◼
►
where the black layer itself does not appear to be scratched
00:54:32
◼
►
but if you move it around in the light
00:54:34
◼
►
and catch the glare of the light,
00:54:36
◼
►
you will see a little fine scratches here and there,
00:54:38
◼
►
mostly around the edges.
00:54:39
◼
►
And it's fine, I don't care.
00:54:41
◼
►
It's amazing.
00:54:42
◼
►
And if this ends up looking like the Millennium Falcon,
00:54:47
◼
►
If it ends up just looking like a scratched up
00:54:48
◼
►
old classic iPod with the steel back,
00:54:50
◼
►
I don't really care about that either.
00:54:52
◼
►
As long as it continues to feel anything like it feels,
00:54:54
◼
►
I couldn't care less how much the back scratched
00:54:56
◼
►
because it feels so incredibly good.
00:54:59
◼
►
And if I didn't have it feel that good,
00:55:01
◼
►
if it was as slippery as the other ones,
00:55:03
◼
►
I would put some ugly case or vinyl decal over it anyway.
00:55:08
◼
►
So either way, I'm not seeing the perfectly clear
00:55:10
◼
►
back of the phone.
00:55:11
◼
►
I would also point out on the fingerprint issue
00:55:14
◼
►
that the ones I saw in the store for the matte black model,
00:55:18
◼
►
it seems that the matte black one is actually pretty bad
00:55:21
◼
►
about fingerprints too.
00:55:22
◼
►
The difference is they're harder to wipe off.
00:55:25
◼
►
The Jet Black has, I've heard from a couple people
00:55:28
◼
►
who have Apple PR connections that apparently
00:55:29
◼
►
the Jet Black does have the oleophobic coating
00:55:32
◼
►
on the whole backside of it.
00:55:34
◼
►
So it does wipe off easily, just like the screen basically,
00:55:38
◼
►
if you rub it on your jeans or whatever.
00:55:40
◼
►
So getting fingerprints off of it is fine
00:55:42
◼
►
if you actually care.
00:55:42
◼
►
Honestly, I don't care because I don't look at the back.
00:55:44
◼
►
But if you're concerned about fingerprints,
00:55:46
◼
►
the matte black, I would say, is really no better
00:55:50
◼
►
because the fingerprints show up just as much on it
00:55:53
◼
►
and they don't come off as easily.
00:55:54
◼
►
They kind of just dull or smear if you try to wipe them off.
00:55:57
◼
►
So anyway, that's my thoughts on the case
00:56:01
◼
►
and the color so far.
00:56:02
◼
►
The home button I am kind of mixed on.
00:56:05
◼
►
I don't hate it as much as I thought I would.
00:56:08
◼
►
I don't love it.
00:56:09
◼
►
Some people love it, that's fine.
00:56:11
◼
►
I started out on the setting number one, the weakest.
00:56:13
◼
►
I have now since moved to setting number three
00:56:16
◼
►
based on Mike Hurley's urging on upgrade
00:56:19
◼
►
that that is the one true setting.
00:56:21
◼
►
That seems okay so far.
00:56:22
◼
►
It's a little loud for me, honestly, but oh well.
00:56:25
◼
►
And yeah, that's about it.
00:56:26
◼
►
So far so good.
00:56:27
◼
►
I haven't used the headphone jack yet
00:56:29
◼
►
because I hardly ever use wired headphones.
00:56:30
◼
►
And that's it.
00:56:32
◼
►
- I have so many thoughts.
00:56:35
◼
►
- Before you have your thoughts,
00:56:36
◼
►
can I ask Marco a quick question?
00:56:37
◼
►
- Yeah, of course. - About the Jet Black
00:56:38
◼
►
as a potential purchaser?
00:56:40
◼
►
Couple people asked you this,
00:56:41
◼
►
but I didn't see your answer.
00:56:43
◼
►
What about wetness combined with the surface?
00:56:46
◼
►
It's very tacky because it's very smooth,
00:56:48
◼
►
but if your hand is slightly wet,
00:56:49
◼
►
does it suddenly become a slippery little pill?
00:56:53
◼
►
- If your hand is just slightly sweaty,
00:56:55
◼
►
it'll actually be really grippy.
00:56:56
◼
►
It'll be better that way.
00:56:58
◼
►
If your hand is soaked,
00:57:00
◼
►
then I think picking up any phone is gonna be a problem.
00:57:02
◼
►
- Well, this one is waterproof, that's why I asked,
00:57:04
◼
►
'cause it's waterproof, you could use it in the rain,
00:57:06
◼
►
like in the Apple ads, or you could drop it in the water.
00:57:09
◼
►
I don't know, it just seems like it's a confluence
00:57:12
◼
►
of events here, this is the first phone
00:57:13
◼
►
where you can actually get wet without terror
00:57:16
◼
►
that you're gonna destroy your phone,
00:57:17
◼
►
and it also seems like the one
00:57:19
◼
►
that might be the slipperiest with water.
00:57:20
◼
►
What I'm asking for you to do is get your phone wet,
00:57:22
◼
►
Travis. - No, it's not gonna happen.
00:57:23
◼
►
If your hands are frequently dripping wet,
00:57:26
◼
►
you just submerged your hands in water,
00:57:28
◼
►
and then you have to handle your phone.
00:57:30
◼
►
or the blood of your enemies, you know, whatever.
00:57:31
◼
►
- Sure, then maybe choose a different one.
00:57:34
◼
►
But for everyday regular use in most conditions,
00:57:38
◼
►
the grip of this is incredible.
00:57:40
◼
►
- I'm gonna have to bring a wet sponge to the Apple Store,
00:57:43
◼
►
aren't I, 'cause you're not gonna do this, that's for me.
00:57:45
◼
►
- Honestly, I think it would have to be really wet
00:57:48
◼
►
to make that, to really tell.
00:57:50
◼
►
- You've seen all the videos,
00:57:51
◼
►
people are dropping these things in the water,
00:57:52
◼
►
taking pictures underwater with them,
00:57:54
◼
►
like it's gonna get, you know, it potentially can get wet.
00:57:57
◼
►
I just, you know, 'cause that's the thing,
00:57:58
◼
►
Like if the grip is entirely based on, you know,
00:58:02
◼
►
it being super smooth and grippy like that,
00:58:03
◼
►
if it suddenly becomes very slippery,
00:58:05
◼
►
that's something I wanna know about.
00:58:06
◼
►
Not that I plan on using it in the rain,
00:58:08
◼
►
but it's conceivable that I just wash my hands
00:58:11
◼
►
and I'm in a hurry and walk into the other room
00:58:12
◼
►
and grab the thing, and if it squirts out of my hand,
00:58:14
◼
►
I'm gonna be sad because it may be waterproof,
00:58:16
◼
►
but it's still not quite drop-proof.
00:58:18
◼
►
- I think the estimation by, I think it was Jason Snell,
00:58:23
◼
►
or no, it was Gruber who said this on this week's talk show.
00:58:26
◼
►
Basically, if you're a person with extremely dry hands
00:58:31
◼
►
all the time, then maybe you might wanna go feel one
00:58:34
◼
►
in the store to see if it's gonna be a problem for you.
00:58:36
◼
►
I don't have that problem.
00:58:37
◼
►
My hands are always warm and not sweaty,
00:58:41
◼
►
but slightly moistened, I guess.
00:58:44
◼
►
I don't know.
00:58:44
◼
►
Sorry if we're grossing everybody out.
00:58:46
◼
►
So for me, it's perfect,
00:58:47
◼
►
because it is really incredibly grippy
00:58:50
◼
►
if your hands have any normal level of moisture, really.
00:58:54
◼
►
I think it's only if your hands are extremely dry,
00:58:56
◼
►
like in the middle of winter,
00:58:57
◼
►
and you have to cover them in lotion
00:58:59
◼
►
in order for them not to fall apart,
00:59:01
◼
►
maybe before you've lotioned for the day,
00:59:02
◼
►
it might be a bit dry,
00:59:04
◼
►
or if your hands are literally in water,
00:59:07
◼
►
then it might be a little more slippery.
00:59:09
◼
►
But I don't think those are common occurrences
00:59:12
◼
►
for most people who are gonna be buying it.
00:59:13
◼
►
- It rubs the lotion on its iPhone.
00:59:16
◼
►
- Oh, or else it gets the hose again.
00:59:18
◼
►
- Hey, you got a reference.
00:59:20
◼
►
Look at you.
00:59:21
◼
►
- That got aggressive.
00:59:24
◼
►
Anyway, I put it in link in the show to the seven pounds just to save you guys. Okay. I've never heard the flophouse
00:59:29
◼
►
I know I know, you know, I heard that you can just jump right in anytime and you'll be fine
00:59:33
◼
►
I went to the office store today and this was my first time seeing or handling a jet black iPhone. I
00:59:40
◼
►
Went to buy a
00:59:44
◼
►
extra headphone adapter too because I know myself enough to know that it's just wise to
00:59:49
◼
►
sprinkle these little things all over the place rather than rely on myself to
00:59:54
◼
►
Remember to take it with me when I might need it
00:59:56
◼
►
So for example Aaron's car we play our iPhones by way of a cassette adapter
01:00:01
◼
►
Because her car was built like one of the last years that cassettes were sort of a thing
01:00:05
◼
►
So I'm going to just leave one of these little adapters in her car and the advantage of it being only nine dollars is that?
01:00:11
◼
►
You know nine dollars is not free, but it is not an exorbitant amount of money
01:00:15
◼
►
So I just grabbed a couple while I was there. I looked at the jet black iPhone
01:00:19
◼
►
I picked it up. The first thing I noticed was holy God
01:00:21
◼
►
I need to dip my hands in Clorox because I've just touched a thousand fingerprints and
01:00:25
◼
►
That I did not really like I am holding my matte black iPhone in my hand and admittedly at a couple of angles
01:00:34
◼
►
You can see some fingerprints on it
01:00:36
◼
►
But generally speaking the only thing I see is all the fingerprints on the Apple logo
01:00:40
◼
►
Which looks to me to be more of a jet black ask
01:00:43
◼
►
material slash color I
01:00:47
◼
►
I did not notice when I was holding the jet black phone,
01:00:50
◼
►
which I held for a grand total of maybe 15 seconds.
01:00:53
◼
►
- And probably very gingerly.
01:00:55
◼
►
- Yeah, I did not notice that it was tackier.
01:00:59
◼
►
But I can't tell if that means that in my estimation,
01:01:04
◼
►
Marco was wrong and that it's not tackier
01:01:07
◼
►
or the fact that it wasn't slippery made nothing registered.
01:01:12
◼
►
Does that make you know what I mean?
01:01:14
◼
►
So like, I didn't think to myself,
01:01:15
◼
►
oh, this is super slippery.
01:01:16
◼
►
So maybe that means it was tackier.
01:01:18
◼
►
Now I deeply regret not having thought to like,
01:01:21
◼
►
examine the two of them side by side.
01:01:23
◼
►
I was kind of in a rush and I had Declan with me.
01:01:26
◼
►
And so I didn't want to just stand there for an hour
01:01:29
◼
►
playing with these things while he's looking at me like,
01:01:31
◼
►
"Dad, are you serious right now?"
01:01:32
◼
►
But I'd like to go back and try it again.
01:01:36
◼
►
But I do not see a lot of fingerprints on my Jet Black 1.
01:01:39
◼
►
And having seen, excuse me, on my Map Black 1,
01:01:42
◼
►
And having seen the Jet Black 1 in the store, to my eyes, I actually think the matte black
01:01:48
◼
►
looks better.
01:01:49
◼
►
Hand on heart, I really do.
01:01:50
◼
►
And I was scared to look at the Jet Black 1 because I expected to think to myself, "Oh,
01:01:54
◼
►
God, I've made a terrible mistake."
01:01:57
◼
►
But I really think the matte black looks better.
01:01:59
◼
►
And it's what it occurred to me just a day or so ago.
01:02:02
◼
►
I think what this is, is my unbelievable unbridled love for the black book, the black polycarbonate
01:02:10
◼
►
MacBook from years ago.
01:02:11
◼
►
I wanted one of those so hard and it was like 70 or 150 bucks more than the equivalent white
01:02:18
◼
►
And so I didn't do it when I bought my initial Mac.
01:02:20
◼
►
And I missed having the black MacBook.
01:02:25
◼
►
I thought it looked so good.
01:02:26
◼
►
And this to me is the black book of iPhones.
01:02:30
◼
►
And I just love the look of it.
01:02:31
◼
►
And that doesn't make Marco wrong.
01:02:33
◼
►
But I love the look of this matte black one, which I know Jon is not helping you because
01:02:37
◼
►
I know Marco was really effusive about his jet flag.
01:02:39
◼
►
I'm really effusive about this one.
01:02:41
◼
►
I think this one looks so much better
01:02:43
◼
►
than the jet black to my eyes.
01:02:45
◼
►
I definitely feel for me, I made the right choice.
01:02:48
◼
►
- Well, and I think we largely agree
01:02:51
◼
►
on the relative benefits of them.
01:02:54
◼
►
The question is just priorities, really.
01:02:56
◼
►
It's like, what gives you more joy,
01:02:59
◼
►
or what is more functional to you
01:03:01
◼
►
when you're choosing your phone's color and finish, basically?
01:03:05
◼
►
Normally, we don't even have these kind of choices
01:03:07
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that make any difference at all.
01:03:08
◼
►
This time, we actually do have a choice.
01:03:10
◼
►
So basically the question is like,
01:03:12
◼
►
would you want one that looks kind of fingerprinty
01:03:15
◼
►
a lot of the time and is gonna be scratched up pretty fast
01:03:18
◼
►
but feels this particular way?
01:03:20
◼
►
Or would you want one that, you know,
01:03:23
◼
►
like the one you have, the matte black one,
01:03:24
◼
►
that looks more consistent over time?
01:03:28
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►
And generally, you know, a lot of people
01:03:30
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►
really do find it very attractive.
01:03:31
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►
I find, honestly, I find the black one
01:03:33
◼
►
a little bit boring and a little bit dated looking
01:03:35
◼
►
because like for years, so much nerd stuff
01:03:37
◼
►
had just been available in black
01:03:39
◼
►
And I know not necessarily iPhones,
01:03:41
◼
►
but it's personal preference, I guess.
01:03:46
◼
►
I find it kind of boring looking to be just flat black.
01:03:50
◼
►
And honestly, the jet black one,
01:03:53
◼
►
it just so happens that I like the way it looks,
01:03:55
◼
►
but I really don't care how it looks
01:03:57
◼
►
because it feels so good.
01:03:59
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►
That's why I'm willing to ignore the scratches.
01:04:00
◼
►
So basically it comes down to, John,
01:04:03
◼
►
first of all, with your type of hand,
01:04:05
◼
►
do you find it a lot grippier?
01:04:07
◼
►
Do you care?
01:04:09
◼
►
And then if the answer to those things are yes,
01:04:11
◼
►
then basically, which do you prefer?
01:04:13
◼
►
Having a phone that you love the way it looks
01:04:16
◼
►
or having a phone that feels this particular way?
01:04:18
◼
►
- Well, the other thing that's in the mix for me is cases
01:04:20
◼
►
because I always had cases on my iPod Touches
01:04:24
◼
►
and I have a case on my first iPhone.
01:04:27
◼
►
And the Jet Black, because my first iPhone was a six,
01:04:29
◼
►
which as we all know is way too slippery.
01:04:31
◼
►
With the Jet Black, the question for me is,
01:04:35
◼
►
can I go caseless?
01:04:36
◼
►
Can I, if this is grippy enough,
01:04:38
◼
►
can I go caseless with it?
01:04:39
◼
►
And for me, the equation is, all right,
01:04:41
◼
►
so if I decide that it's grippy enough to go caseless,
01:04:44
◼
►
can I tolerate then the disaster
01:04:47
◼
►
that will be in the back of that phone from the scratches?
01:04:49
◼
►
And I have to sort of get to Marco's place
01:04:50
◼
►
where it's like, look, just who cares how it looks?
01:04:52
◼
►
Or I gotta believe it's gonna look good
01:04:54
◼
►
when it's all scratched up.
01:04:55
◼
►
So far, all the pictures that I've seen on Twitter
01:04:57
◼
►
of scratched up ones do not look good to me.
01:04:59
◼
►
And I would just have to sort of resign myself to say,
01:05:01
◼
►
well, you know, just don't worry about it.
01:05:02
◼
►
Like in exchange, you're getting a smaller, lighter phone
01:05:05
◼
►
because you don't have a case on it or whatever.
01:05:08
◼
►
But on the other side of this is,
01:05:09
◼
►
if I go to the store and it's like a toss up
01:05:12
◼
►
or I can't quite decide or whatever,
01:05:15
◼
►
but I decide that like the jet black is grippy as it may be,
01:05:18
◼
►
is not as grippy as like my leather case or whatever,
01:05:20
◼
►
I just decided like the leather one for whatever,
01:05:23
◼
►
I may I'm getting a jet black one
01:05:25
◼
►
just so I can ensconce it in leather and preserve it
01:05:28
◼
►
so it actually is perfect
01:05:29
◼
►
because it's never actually seen the light of day
01:05:31
◼
►
because from the day,
01:05:31
◼
►
the second I took it out of the box, I put a case on it.
01:05:34
◼
►
And so that it will be perfect under there
01:05:36
◼
►
and I could see the perfectness peeking out on the bottom
01:05:38
◼
►
or the speakers are and just know in my heart of hearts
01:05:40
◼
►
that there is an unblemished perfect jet plaque
01:05:43
◼
►
back on this thing.
01:05:44
◼
►
So that's a factor.
01:05:45
◼
►
And then the final factor is,
01:05:45
◼
►
first of all, it won't by the way.
01:05:47
◼
►
Yeah, I really like matte black.
01:05:48
◼
►
Yeah, that's the question.
01:05:49
◼
►
You get a little piece of grit in there,
01:05:50
◼
►
but I'll try really hard.
01:05:53
◼
►
The matte black I really like,
01:05:54
◼
►
as I was thinking the same thing,
01:05:56
◼
►
like the main function of this matte black
01:05:57
◼
►
is just to make us all wish
01:05:58
◼
►
that Apple had had this technology
01:05:59
◼
►
because the black book did not stay pristine
01:06:01
◼
►
because it was made of plastic
01:06:02
◼
►
and it wasn't, you know, didn't hold up
01:06:04
◼
►
and showed fingerprints like crazy.
01:06:07
◼
►
- I mean, you're saying the matte black one does too,
01:06:08
◼
►
but I see the pictures of the matte black,
01:06:10
◼
►
and it's a look that I like.
01:06:11
◼
►
If jet black didn't exist, I'd be like,
01:06:12
◼
►
"Boy, that matte black, isn't that great, guys?
01:06:14
◼
►
"No more space gray, like matte black."
01:06:16
◼
►
I like the matte black.
01:06:18
◼
►
- No, no, I'm talking about the black book,
01:06:20
◼
►
the black plastic matte,
01:06:21
◼
►
'cause that showed fingerprints like crazy.
01:06:23
◼
►
- But you're saying the matte black phone
01:06:24
◼
►
in the store also showed fingerprints.
01:06:26
◼
►
- Not as much as the jet black, obviously,
01:06:27
◼
►
but I'm saying it shows way more fingerprints
01:06:30
◼
►
than the old space gray ones.
01:06:31
◼
►
- Yeah, so, I mean, but mine have always been a case.
01:06:34
◼
►
So anyway, I've got some research to do
01:06:36
◼
►
and I gotta go to the store.
01:06:37
◼
►
The other thing I was thinking about,
01:06:38
◼
►
two things on this topic.
01:06:39
◼
►
One, the jet black finish with it being grippier
01:06:42
◼
►
and everything, they can make that in colors.
01:06:45
◼
►
They could, you know, you can imagine
01:06:47
◼
►
if they keep this finish, right?
01:06:49
◼
►
If this becomes sort of like a signature finish of iPhones,
01:06:51
◼
►
maybe the super duper cool glass one,
01:06:54
◼
►
the back of all of them are that super glossy,
01:06:56
◼
►
highly polished aluminum.
01:06:58
◼
►
It just so happens they don't all come in black.
01:07:00
◼
►
Can you imagine, you know, life savers colors
01:07:03
◼
►
like the old iMacs, but with this super glossy thing.
01:07:05
◼
►
And by the way, this is a neat thing
01:07:06
◼
►
that we left out of the show last time.
01:07:08
◼
►
Someone had noticed that the, what is it,
01:07:09
◼
►
like the wallpapers they give you
01:07:11
◼
►
with this weird blob of gel exactly matches the color
01:07:14
◼
►
of some of the Lifesaver iMacs plus the original one,
01:07:17
◼
►
which I thought was neat.
01:07:18
◼
►
But I can imagine this finish,
01:07:21
◼
►
if it ends up being successful,
01:07:22
◼
►
being a signature of the iPhone going forward.
01:07:24
◼
►
But as I said to Marco on Twitter today
01:07:26
◼
►
when he was talking about what are the things
01:07:27
◼
►
that we're gonna look back on about the iPhone 7
01:07:30
◼
►
and think those didn't quite work out
01:07:32
◼
►
those complaints were legit and he was saying the home button and a few other things. My
01:07:35
◼
►
suggestion was that probably the finish on the back of the iPhone 7 will not be an ongoing
01:07:42
◼
►
thing. Not the aesthetic look, but I feel like if they're going to make another version
01:07:46
◼
►
of that finish, if they decide to do that, they'll work a little bit harder on the scratch
01:07:49
◼
►
thing, right? Like that I feel like this is not where they wanted it to get. They love
01:07:52
◼
►
how it looks, they had to put in a little warning about scratching. If they have the
01:07:55
◼
►
technology to say, like the 6s being slightly less slippery than the 6, they could say,
01:08:00
◼
►
"Oh, it's got the same awesome finish that you love from the 7, but now it is more scratch resistant."
01:08:04
◼
►
Not perfect, you know, it's not going to be like the stainless steel DLC thing because that apparently is not a process that you can do aluminum
01:08:09
◼
►
and they're not going to make it out of steel because the foam will weigh a ton.
01:08:12
◼
►
But I can imagine this shiny glossy finish being a thing because it looks cool, right?
01:08:19
◼
►
And if you could make it less scratchy, that would be cool.
01:08:22
◼
►
And if you could do it in different colors, that would also be cool.
01:08:25
◼
►
I see potentially a future in that or this would just be like a one-off thing where this was the glossy black one and they
01:08:30
◼
►
Go on to whatever they've already had in mind for the age
01:08:32
◼
►
But anyway, I'm not any closer to decision gotta see these things in person
01:08:35
◼
►
And hopefully by the time I get all the weird bugs with like the headphone connectors and everything will all be worked out
01:08:40
◼
►
So thanks for dealing with that guys. They'll also have the the option for reduced motion and messages
01:08:46
◼
►
All right, so just a couple of minor follow-ups to what you just said first of all
01:08:54
◼
►
Your potential option of buy the jet black anyway
01:08:58
◼
►
and just put it in a case and keep it pristine forever,
01:09:00
◼
►
it won't actually work.
01:09:01
◼
►
'Cause first of all, as you mentioned,
01:09:02
◼
►
yeah, a little piece of grit might get back there
01:09:04
◼
►
or whatever and scratch it.
01:09:05
◼
►
- I'm really careful.
01:09:07
◼
►
- Yeah, so am I.
01:09:08
◼
►
And I've had this phone for two days
01:09:09
◼
►
and it's already scratches on it.
01:09:11
◼
►
- It wasn't in a case, it was never in a case.
01:09:13
◼
►
- And some of them are along the bottom edge
01:09:15
◼
►
where the speakers turn into the back.
01:09:17
◼
►
- I know, I said the speaker,
01:09:18
◼
►
that I said the speaker grill would be poking out,
01:09:20
◼
►
I understood that would be exposed.
01:09:22
◼
►
- So yeah, I mean, it's just like,
01:09:23
◼
►
just handling this, having it in a pocket with lint in it.
01:09:26
◼
►
I mean, this thing, like, I am very careful with my stuff.
01:09:30
◼
►
Most of my electronics that I own and use,
01:09:33
◼
►
after I'm done using them, look brand new.
01:09:35
◼
►
They look totally unused,
01:09:37
◼
►
they have no wear on them whatsoever.
01:09:39
◼
►
This phone I've had for two days
01:09:40
◼
►
and it already has scratched.
01:09:41
◼
►
So I will say, if you are the kind of person who thinks,
01:09:44
◼
►
you know what, I can get a Jet Black
01:09:45
◼
►
and just be really careful with it,
01:09:46
◼
►
no, that's not going to happen.
01:09:48
◼
►
So you have, really, you have to be okay with it scratching
01:09:51
◼
►
if you're going to get it.
01:09:53
◼
►
And if, like me, if you are so enamored by the feel of it
01:09:58
◼
►
that you don't care, then it might be right for you.
01:10:02
◼
►
And I also would say, I do think that you are probably right
01:10:05
◼
►
this is probably gonna be a one-off.
01:10:07
◼
►
I don't expect this color to return in future years
01:10:10
◼
►
simply because I think it is probably very expensive
01:10:14
◼
►
and more complex for them to do.
01:10:16
◼
►
And also I think the way it ages
01:10:20
◼
►
is not going to be received well.
01:10:21
◼
►
I think people are gonna look back on it
01:10:22
◼
►
kind of like the scratchy iPod Nanos
01:10:24
◼
►
and old classic iPod with the steel backs as like--
01:10:27
◼
►
- It won't be that bad
01:10:28
◼
►
'cause the scratchy iPod Nano was on the front.
01:10:29
◼
►
- That's true.
01:10:30
◼
►
- So that was a problem.
01:10:31
◼
►
But like, even if they can improve it,
01:10:34
◼
►
'cause that's the wild card, like I said,
01:10:35
◼
►
like I really don't feel like they're gonna do
01:10:37
◼
►
this exact back again,
01:10:38
◼
►
but this aesthetic I think has legs, right?
01:10:40
◼
►
And so if they can improve the process somehow,
01:10:43
◼
►
like come up with some super hard clear coat
01:10:45
◼
►
that resists scratching and doesn't look like a disaster.
01:10:48
◼
►
- Like ceramic.
01:10:49
◼
►
- I think aesthetically, it would be really nice.
01:10:52
◼
►
I mean, obviously it's probably also expensive
01:10:54
◼
►
and you know, so and so.
01:10:54
◼
►
But can you imagine, like, if they had like,
01:10:56
◼
►
bright candy colors under that kind of gloss,
01:10:59
◼
►
that's a good looking phone.
01:11:00
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, I would even say like, a white one.
01:11:03
◼
►
Let's not go crazy.
01:11:04
◼
►
White on the back and black on the front.
01:11:06
◼
►
There we go.
01:11:07
◼
►
- Yeah. - Exactly.
01:11:08
◼
►
- Business in front, party in the back.
01:11:09
◼
►
- Oh my gosh.
01:11:10
◼
►
- If they had, if they had like a white glossy finish,
01:11:13
◼
►
I don't know much about,
01:11:14
◼
►
I don't know anything about this process.
01:11:16
◼
►
I don't know whether it's possible to do it
01:11:17
◼
►
in different colors or whether this can only be done
01:11:20
◼
►
in black because of some component that's used in it.
01:11:22
◼
►
But if it could be done,
01:11:23
◼
►
if the same finish could be done in white,
01:11:26
◼
►
I bet the scratches would be very hard to see.
01:11:29
◼
►
- So you heard it here first, kids.
01:11:30
◼
►
John Sirkusa would like a mullet foam.
01:11:33
◼
►
- Would like, I was just identifying
01:11:35
◼
►
as the thing that could be made.
01:11:36
◼
►
- I'm just messing around.
01:11:38
◼
►
The home button, #mikewaswrong.
01:11:41
◼
►
The correct setting is the middle setting.
01:11:44
◼
►
Additionally, I hated, hated this home button
01:11:49
◼
►
for six hours and now I freaking love it.
01:11:52
◼
►
I don't know why I love it,
01:11:56
◼
►
to be completely honest with you,
01:11:58
◼
►
but it just feels so much more crisp
01:12:01
◼
►
than the home button on my iPad or even my 6S,
01:12:05
◼
►
which I still have for at least a little while.
01:12:07
◼
►
I grab the iPad or if I just pick up the 6S
01:12:11
◼
►
for whatever reason,
01:12:12
◼
►
those feel just positively mushy by comparison.
01:12:17
◼
►
I don't care for it all at all. I feel like
01:12:23
◼
►
Clicking for lack of a better word the home button to bring up multitasking. I feel like I can do it quicker and it's
01:12:29
◼
►
more reliable on
01:12:31
◼
►
the new phone I have
01:12:33
◼
►
Guided access enabled so if I
01:12:37
◼
►
Really need a break for a minute if Declan's in the car or something like that because he hates the car
01:12:44
◼
►
And I want to give him like Plex to look at and look at Daniel Tiger or Sesame Street or what have you I've got
01:12:49
◼
►
It access ready and waiting to be enabled so he doesn't you know and navigate away from the app
01:12:55
◼
►
I want him to use so a triple tap oftentimes or a triple click. I would oftentimes fire that accidentally
01:13:01
◼
►
No, maybe not often, but definitely regularly fire a triple
01:13:06
◼
►
Click by accident with physical home buttons. I've yet to do that on this one
01:13:11
◼
►
And you know what as stupid as it sounds and I'll be the first to say it's stupid
01:13:14
◼
►
I just kind of like being on the home screen and mashing away at this home button and feeling the taptic engine
01:13:19
◼
►
I really think it feels better and crisper. You got an $850 fidget cube. I do it's great
01:13:26
◼
►
I love this thing
01:13:28
◼
►
Click in your pen caps and uh, yep your home button. Yep. That's right. No, I really do love this thing
01:13:33
◼
►
I think one is too gentle. I think three is just overbearing. I think two is just right
01:13:39
◼
►
It was weird at first because it is very
01:13:42
◼
►
clearly not the same feel as
01:13:46
◼
►
A physical button as many people have said particularly those who had review units
01:13:51
◼
►
It's not the same as the trackpad which despite what Marco believes does feel like an actual click it is
01:13:56
◼
►
You cannot discern the difference unless your mark. Oh, no, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait
01:14:01
◼
►
I never said the fourth trackpad doesn't feel like a click
01:14:04
◼
►
I said it feels like a bad button and the old one was a good button and you can totally tell and you can totally
01:14:08
◼
►
totally tell the difference. Don't tell me you can't tell.
01:14:10
◼
►
Yeah, it's a pretty apparent difference.
01:14:12
◼
►
The force touch might be good enough
01:14:14
◼
►
for lots of people, but that doesn't mean
01:14:16
◼
►
it's not worse. It's definitely much
01:14:18
◼
►
more convincing than the reports say, because
01:14:20
◼
►
like you said last time, if you didn't tell
01:14:22
◼
►
someone, especially someone who's not Marco,
01:14:24
◼
►
this wasn't a button, they wouldn't figure it
01:14:26
◼
►
out, but once you tell them, they're like, "Oh yeah, I can see that."
01:14:28
◼
►
And like I said, the trackpad
01:14:30
◼
►
does move. I wonder if the home button moves.
01:14:32
◼
►
Has anyone gone in macro on that and seen does the home button
01:14:34
◼
►
move? Because the trackpad moves just because it's a big thing
01:14:36
◼
►
and it flexes, but I wonder if the home button moves at all.
01:14:38
◼
►
- I don't think it does.
01:14:40
◼
►
- And I will say too, I actually find
01:14:42
◼
►
the Force Touch home button on the 7 less crappy
01:14:46
◼
►
than the Force Touch track pads.
01:14:48
◼
►
I actually, I think, given, give me another couple days,
01:14:52
◼
►
I'll probably even like this.
01:14:54
◼
►
However, I've been using a Force Touch Magic Track Pad
01:14:56
◼
►
for a while now and I still don't like its click.
01:14:59
◼
►
The Force Touch on the track pads, I think, stays mediocre.
01:15:02
◼
►
But the one on the phone, I think,
01:15:04
◼
►
you can use it pretty fast.
01:15:05
◼
►
I just I really don't mind and in fact like the track there but be that as it may
01:15:09
◼
►
Really like the home button setting number two is the right setting the best way to describe it
01:15:14
◼
►
Which I'm stealing from either panzerino or snell or somebody is that it feels like the whole bottom of the phone not that it's
01:15:21
◼
►
being depressed but it's the whole bottom of the phone that's reacting and that's very unnatural as
01:15:28
◼
►
Compared to a physical button and that's why I think I hated it so much at first
01:15:32
◼
►
Because it's as though the whole bottom of the phone
01:15:36
◼
►
Not really depressing but like I said a second ago reacting
01:15:39
◼
►
But I've come to really like it and it's it almost feels more obvious even at setting to that
01:15:47
◼
►
Yes, I have engaged the home button
01:15:49
◼
►
So I freaking love this thing the one downside that I found which I almost never run into but it is
01:15:56
◼
►
striking the difference is if you have the phone sitting on say a table or something like that and then press the home button is
01:16:04
◼
►
it feels very, very weird.
01:16:08
◼
►
Either you don't feel it at all, or...
01:16:10
◼
►
This is particularly on like a hard surface.
01:16:13
◼
►
So like, I have a glass desk, so putting it on my mouse pad,
01:16:17
◼
►
which I have to use like an animal,
01:16:18
◼
►
that feels about the same, but on the glass,
01:16:21
◼
►
you can barely feel the darn thing moving at all.
01:16:23
◼
►
- Ooh, that sucks. - Which is super, super weird.
01:16:26
◼
►
And I don't care for that at all,
01:16:28
◼
►
but it's so rare that I have the thing sitting
01:16:30
◼
►
on a flat surface like that and pressing the home button
01:16:33
◼
►
that that doesn't really bother me.
01:16:35
◼
►
But that is something worth noting.
01:16:37
◼
►
And as a friend of the show, Mike Hurley, had also noted, the ring that kind of enables
01:16:43
◼
►
Touch ID is the same thing that enables listening, for lack of a better word, that you're pressing
01:16:48
◼
►
the home button.
01:16:49
◼
►
So if you don't have the right kind of capacitive gloves, or if you like put your shirt between
01:16:54
◼
►
your thumb and the home button, you can no longer tap or press the home button, which
01:16:59
◼
►
to me isn't a problem at all, but it is very peculiar,
01:17:02
◼
►
and it makes you realize that this is all just
01:17:04
◼
►
software and hardware trickery.
01:17:06
◼
►
- Yeah, I actually hit this, like, in the,
01:17:08
◼
►
like I have next to my bed, I have an iPhone dock,
01:17:11
◼
►
and I've gotten in the habit of, like,
01:17:12
◼
►
when I wake up in the morning to check the time,
01:17:14
◼
►
I will just, like, kinda push my pinky
01:17:16
◼
►
into the home button to just make sure
01:17:17
◼
►
it doesn't unlock the whole phone and everything,
01:17:18
◼
►
I just wanna see the clock on the phone.
01:17:20
◼
►
And so, now I kinda can't, it doesn't work very well anymore
01:17:24
◼
►
because I've gotten in the habit of only pushing
01:17:26
◼
►
this little tiny bit of the home button with my pinky,
01:17:28
◼
►
and you kinda have to activate that touch ID ring
01:17:31
◼
►
to make it work at all now.
01:17:33
◼
►
- If you had a mechanical clock back next to your bed,
01:17:35
◼
►
as soon as you looked over it would tell you the time.
01:17:37
◼
►
- No, but it wouldn't be lit up.
01:17:39
◼
►
Whereas the Apple Watch,
01:17:40
◼
►
when it's close to the time you're supposed to wake up,
01:17:42
◼
►
automatically lights up for you.
01:17:43
◼
►
It's the future.
01:17:44
◼
►
- Radiation can solve that problem.
01:17:46
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- Our final sponsor tonight is Pingdom.
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but I'm saying it.
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availability and performance. All you do is give Pingdom a URL to monitor and optional
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Thank you very much to Pingdom for sponsoring our show.
01:20:01
◼
►
(upbeat music)
01:20:03
◼
►
- Speakers, the speakers on the new phones
01:20:07
◼
►
are indeed louder.
01:20:09
◼
►
They are in stereo, which I haven't watched very much
01:20:12
◼
►
on my new phone in terms of like video or what have you,
01:20:15
◼
►
but I have had it playing some podcasts from time to time.
01:20:19
◼
►
And oh man, these speakers are so much louder
01:20:21
◼
►
and I love it.
01:20:23
◼
►
Have you used yours much, Marco?
01:20:25
◼
►
- Not a ton, but I have used them
01:20:28
◼
►
and tested them here and there,
01:20:28
◼
►
and yeah, it's better.
01:20:29
◼
►
I wouldn't say it's twice as loud perceptually,
01:20:36
◼
►
and maybe in certain conditions it might be,
01:20:38
◼
►
that their claim of it being twice as loud
01:20:41
◼
►
might have been a decibel level measurement,
01:20:43
◼
►
where it can be funky.
01:20:46
◼
►
But anyway, it is definitely noticeably louder
01:20:49
◼
►
and of better quality, and that's what's important.
01:20:51
◼
►
I'm pleasantly surprised that I thought,
01:20:55
◼
►
because the speaker, there isn't one
01:20:57
◼
►
that fires out the top edge,
01:20:59
◼
►
it's just the earpiece that speaks during phone calls.
01:21:03
◼
►
That thing is now just loud enough to be a speaker.
01:21:06
◼
►
And so you have that one firing straight ahead,
01:21:10
◼
►
and then you have the one on the bottom
01:21:11
◼
►
where it's always been firing kind of down,
01:21:13
◼
►
like away from the phone.
01:21:15
◼
►
So these are firing at two different angles.
01:21:18
◼
►
And so I thought it would sound weird,
01:21:20
◼
►
But it doesn't really.
01:21:21
◼
►
It just sounds like the whole phone is making
01:21:25
◼
►
one loud sound output, which is exactly what you want.
01:21:29
◼
►
So I'm actually very pleasantly surprised by it.
01:21:31
◼
►
I expected it to be useful from a utility point of view
01:21:35
◼
►
of just getting more sound out of the phone,
01:21:38
◼
►
but it actually is better quality than I expected.
01:21:42
◼
►
- Yeah, completely agree.
01:21:43
◼
►
Two thumbs up.
01:21:44
◼
►
The AirPods, obviously none of us have them yet.
01:21:48
◼
►
When they were first announced, I thought, "Eh, that's clever. Looks cool, but eh."
01:21:54
◼
►
But a few different things have happened over the last few days that have made me think,
01:21:59
◼
►
"You know, I think I do want those," very much in the watch style.
01:22:03
◼
►
First of all, I've been using the Lightning Earbuds from time to time,
01:22:08
◼
►
and I really think that having the cables come off of them really does pull on them enough to
01:22:17
◼
►
try to pull them out of my ears. And I really think not having the weight of the cables
01:22:21
◼
►
would make a huge difference. Additionally, there's been a handful of times that I've,
01:22:26
◼
►
or even perhaps most of the time, I've only had one of the earbuds in because I want to
01:22:31
◼
►
be able to hear Declan or, you know, maybe I'm, uh, he's asleep and Aaron's out and I
01:22:36
◼
►
just need to make sure that I can hear the monitor or what have you. For whatever reason,
01:22:40
◼
►
I've only had one in and not having the the phone or perhaps it's the earbuds whatever
01:22:47
◼
►
Force mono when only one of them is in I can't say I've noticed it but I can just think to myself man
01:22:54
◼
►
It would be nice if I knew that everything that I could hear I was hearing through just one of the air pods
01:22:59
◼
►
and additionally
01:23:00
◼
►
there's been a handful of times when I'll like go with go for a walk with Declan where
01:23:03
◼
►
It would be kind of nice to be able to just not have wires or maybe even leave my phone at home
01:23:09
◼
►
and just use my watch and have these things
01:23:12
◼
►
just magically transfer from the phone to the watch
01:23:15
◼
►
would be really nice.
01:23:16
◼
►
So at first I thought, yeah, I don't want any interest,
01:23:19
◼
►
I don't really have any interest in the AirPods,
01:23:21
◼
►
but within just a few days I've convinced myself
01:23:23
◼
►
that's going on the Christmas and Hanukkah list this year.
01:23:26
◼
►
- Even if the sound quality ends up being
01:23:29
◼
►
not meaningfully better than the regular AirPods,
01:23:33
◼
►
the wired ones, which means not very good,
01:23:35
◼
►
I think a lot of people are going to buy
01:23:37
◼
►
and use these things and like them
01:23:39
◼
►
just for the utility factor.
01:23:41
◼
►
I mean, that's the thing with Bluetooth audio.
01:23:42
◼
►
Like, in many ways, as we've discussed,
01:23:45
◼
►
in many ways, Bluetooth headphones are worse
01:23:48
◼
►
than wired headphones, or at least more complicated
01:23:50
◼
►
at best, but it really is a lot more convenient
01:23:53
◼
►
in a number of big ways in practice,
01:23:56
◼
►
and that's why my walking headphones
01:23:59
◼
►
are these terrible sounding little, tiny,
01:24:02
◼
►
relatively inexpensive Sennheiser Bluetooth ones,
01:24:04
◼
►
because I'm listening to podcasts,
01:24:06
◼
►
so the quality doesn't matter very much,
01:24:07
◼
►
and it's just so much more convenient
01:24:10
◼
►
with Bluetooth headphones that have no wire
01:24:13
◼
►
and have nice big button controls on the ear cup.
01:24:16
◼
►
And so I think people are gonna feel similarly
01:24:18
◼
►
about the AirPods, where if you really want big,
01:24:21
◼
►
thumpin' bass and everything for music,
01:24:23
◼
►
you're probably gonna go with Beats
01:24:25
◼
►
or some other headphone that's more for that purpose
01:24:28
◼
►
and tuned for that, but if you just want
01:24:30
◼
►
like basically headphones as a utilitarian object
01:24:35
◼
►
that are primarily serving a functional role for you
01:24:39
◼
►
and you don't really care as much about the quality,
01:24:42
◼
►
then I think they're gonna be really great.
01:24:43
◼
►
Again, my only reservation about them is
01:24:45
◼
►
how inconvenient will it really be in practice
01:24:48
◼
►
to not have a lot of remote control options,
01:24:51
◼
►
to not have the volume control,
01:24:52
◼
►
to not have the seek buttons.
01:24:54
◼
►
And in practice, I think most people won't care
01:24:58
◼
►
because most people could only ever use
01:25:01
◼
►
the volume control in Play/Pause.
01:25:03
◼
►
Most people never even knew
01:25:05
◼
►
that you could double click or triple click
01:25:07
◼
►
or click and hold that middle button to do other things,
01:25:10
◼
►
like the seeking and stuff.
01:25:11
◼
►
So that might end up not mattering at all
01:25:15
◼
►
to most buyers of it, but to geeks like us,
01:25:17
◼
►
I think people who were aware
01:25:19
◼
►
of the remote control gestures,
01:25:20
◼
►
I think it's gonna be a notable omission.
01:25:22
◼
►
But otherwise, they do seem like
01:25:23
◼
►
they're gonna be pretty compelling.
01:25:25
◼
►
And I might get a pair, just as I said,
01:25:26
◼
►
just to see can I get away with this,
01:25:28
◼
►
because there are situations
01:25:29
◼
►
where I would probably want those.
01:25:33
◼
►
my walking Bluetooth headphones,
01:25:35
◼
►
I can't put those in my pocket.
01:25:37
◼
►
They don't fit in pockets, but these,
01:25:39
◼
►
I can put them in their little case,
01:25:41
◼
►
which I think their case does fit in pockets.
01:25:43
◼
►
It's a little thick, right, but it does fit, right?
01:25:45
◼
►
Isn't it like a dental floss size roughly?
01:25:48
◼
►
- It's got a thick, yeah, but it looks like
01:25:49
◼
►
like a Tic Tacs or something.
01:25:50
◼
►
It's definitely pocketable.
01:25:52
◼
►
- So there are lots of occasions where
01:25:54
◼
►
I would like to have headphones with me,
01:25:56
◼
►
but I don't have a pocket to devote to them.
01:25:58
◼
►
So I would love to have these for those kind of situations
01:26:02
◼
►
if I can wear them without pain.
01:26:04
◼
►
So time will tell on that front,
01:26:05
◼
►
but they are probably going to be very practical
01:26:10
◼
►
and very compelling in real world use.
01:26:13
◼
►
- So we're gonna do some ear spreaders
01:26:15
◼
►
so you can start preparing.
01:26:18
◼
►
- That's the problem, right?
01:26:20
◼
►
Your ears are too small, they don't fit in there?
01:26:21
◼
►
- Honestly, I don't know what the problem is.
01:26:23
◼
►
It's, they seemed, I think my ears are not just,
01:26:26
◼
►
are not too small, but just like don't have
01:26:27
◼
►
exactly the right type of shape for them to sit properly.
01:26:30
◼
►
I don't know, I don't know what the problem is.
01:26:32
◼
►
Whatever the problem is, they don't sit very well in there and it hurts.
01:26:35
◼
►
What are those things they call that you put in shoes?
01:26:37
◼
►
Yeah, the things that hold them open?
01:26:39
◼
►
Yeah, you need ear trees.
01:26:42
◼
►
Ear trees shaped like ear pods.
01:26:44
◼
►
That's Apple's next big product.
01:26:46
◼
►
The world will conform to our ear pods.
01:26:48
◼
►
We measured a thousand ears.
01:26:50
◼
►
Get in line.
01:26:51
◼
►
I mean, couldn't you just take the wired ones that come in the box for free and just shove
01:26:54
◼
►
those in there all the time?
01:26:55
◼
►
I don't know.
01:26:56
◼
►
It's still open for debate whether they're exactly the same shape as the wireless ones.
01:27:00
◼
►
- All right, well, I believe that's it for today, right?
01:27:03
◼
►
- I think so.
01:27:04
◼
►
- All right, thank you very much to our three sponsors,
01:27:06
◼
►
Betterment, Linode, and Pingdom.
01:27:08
◼
►
We will see you next week.
01:27:10
◼
►
(upbeat music)
01:27:12
◼
►
♪ Now the show is over ♪
01:27:14
◼
►
♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪
01:27:17
◼
►
♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
01:27:19
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:27:20
◼
►
♪ Oh, it was accidental ♪
01:27:21
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:27:23
◼
►
♪ John didn't do any research ♪
01:27:25
◼
►
♪ Marco and Casey wouldn't let him ♪
01:27:28
◼
►
♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
01:27:29
◼
►
It was accidental.
01:27:33
◼
►
And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm.
01:27:38
◼
►
And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them at
01:27:43
◼
►
C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.
01:27:47
◼
►
So that's Kasey Liszt M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M.
01:27:52
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T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-N-S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A
01:27:59
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It's accidental (accidental)
01:28:02
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They didn't mean to accidental (accidental)
01:28:07
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Tech podcast so long
01:28:12
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Rifola, I have been barking up this tree so many times, and Marco refuses to listen.
01:28:19
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- Oh, IEMs, yes, I know.
01:28:22
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Yeah, no, there was one time where in 2006 or so,
01:28:26
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I did try one of the entry level,
01:28:30
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I think it might have been one of the Shure ones,
01:28:32
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or Edamonic, I forget which one I did,
01:28:34
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but I did try an entry level IEM
01:28:36
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with a few different various tips on it,
01:28:39
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and I had to return it.
01:28:40
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I could not, even that, it hurt, I couldn't wear it.
01:28:44
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- Well, the custom mold ones are very special.
01:28:46
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You pour some goop into your ear.
01:28:49
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- But I feel like the custom mold,
01:28:50
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like first of all, I think the cheapest custom molded ones
01:28:53
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are like $700-ish, like somewhere in that price range.
01:28:56
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- Oh yeah, for you, that's so damn expensive, mister.
01:28:59
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I spend gazillions of dollars on headphones on a daily basis.
01:29:03
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- But to spend $700 on something that I will almost
01:29:06
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certainly not be able to use and that I can't return
01:29:09
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or resell, that is not a great sell.
01:29:13
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- I understand where you're coming from,
01:29:15
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which is why I'm only going to slightly beat you up,
01:29:18
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But the whole point of custom-poured IEMs
01:29:21
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is that they are built for Marco Armond.
01:29:24
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They are perfect for Marco Armond
01:29:26
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because they literally put goop in your ears
01:29:28
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to make a mold of your ears.
01:29:29
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- Oh, I know, I know.
01:29:30
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- Like, this is, it is by design, by definition, perfect.
01:29:35
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That is the whole point.
01:29:36
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- But what if the problem isn't the shape?
01:29:37
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What if the problem is like,
01:29:38
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my ear is too sensitive there or whatever?
01:29:41
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- The problem isn't like crap in his ears.
01:29:42
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It's like, they're perfect.
01:29:44
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If you want something that perfectly wedges itself
01:29:46
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in your ear canal,
01:29:46
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this'll perfectly fit in your ear canal.
01:29:48
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I was like, "No, I don't want something
01:29:50
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"filling up my ear canal.
01:29:51
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"I want there to be air in my ear canal
01:29:53
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"and maybe a little bit of wax and some hair
01:29:55
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"because I'm old."
01:29:57
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- Yeah, like I find, I mean, people who love
01:30:00
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and can use IEMs, more power to you,
01:30:02
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I find them a little gross.
01:30:04
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And I also like, the amount of isolation they provide
01:30:08
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is not usually something I want.
01:30:10
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Like if I'm not walking--
01:30:11
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- That's actually, that's a fair point.
01:30:12
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- I don't want full isolation.
01:30:14
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Like my little stupid Sennheiser ones are these,
01:30:17
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you know, relatively small on-ear headphones.
01:30:19
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So they are closed back, but there's not much ceiling
01:30:22
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that's actually happening.
01:30:23
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So I'm not very isolated from the world.
01:30:25
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So I can hear things like traffic,
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which is pretty important when I'm walking.
01:30:29
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So, especially 'cause, you know,
01:30:30
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I'm often walking in the street with my dog.
01:30:32
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So, you know, to be able to hear cars coming
01:30:35
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is fairly important.
01:30:36
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- See, that I have no argument for.
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But the, oh, I don't think it'll feel good.
01:30:40
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Oh, just go try it.
01:30:41
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Just so I don't have to complain and moan at you
01:30:43
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for the rest of my life.
01:30:44
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- If you wanna pitch him,
01:30:45
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if you wanna get him to use these things,
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You gotta go to the audiophile angle and say,
01:30:47
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people say that the real best sounding earphones
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are the ones that jam themselves up inside your ear
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like little eels.
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That's the way to go for it.
01:30:55
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- Again, I've never benefited from this,
01:30:58
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but people do say that IEMs are really amazing
01:31:02
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and the quality you can get out of a good pair of IEMs
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is really something.
01:31:05
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- So that's what's gonna bring you over the edge eventually
01:31:06
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if anything ever does.
01:31:07
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It's not going to be the idea that it'll be better
01:31:11
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than the Bluetooth ones you're using.
01:31:13
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- Yeah, I doubt it.
01:31:14
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- I'm predicting now that I think you'll switch
01:31:16
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to the EarPods if they in any way manage to stay in your ear.
01:31:18
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So they don't obviously then whatever,
01:31:20
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you'll just give them the TIFF.
01:31:21
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'Cause I feel like they're just gonna be so much more
01:31:22
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convenient than those big like,
01:31:24
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I'm one of those people who would feel weird
01:31:27
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walking around outside, walking the dog
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with big headphones on, and other ears aren't big.
01:31:31
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- They're not big.
01:31:32
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- They're bigger than EarPods, put it that way.
01:31:34
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Somehow in my world I feel okay with earbuds
01:31:36
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going on a walk, I don't feel okay with the thing
01:31:38
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that goes over my head.
01:31:39
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Anyway, I think once you, you know, use the EarPods.
01:31:41
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- Honestly, I find EarPods, I think EarPods
01:31:43
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look a little bit dumb.
01:31:44
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- They do, they're a little dumb, I will grant you,
01:31:47
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but they're certainly less conspicuous from a distance
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than the big thing on your ears.
01:31:53
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And I think probably you'll be able to hear more
01:31:55
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with ear pods, someone who wears ear pods every day
01:31:57
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when walking around and stuff,
01:31:59
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I think they don't do much noise isolation at all.
01:32:02
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Like I think you'll be able to hear more traffic,
01:32:04
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which I think is a good thing
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'cause you really shouldn't be walking around on roads
01:32:07
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with earphones on.
01:32:07
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- No, I would actually want that.
01:32:10
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- Or just do one ear, and if you're just doing podcasts,
01:32:12
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just do one ear and listen to mono,
01:32:13
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something you can't do with a headset, right?
01:32:15
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- I do it all the time.
01:32:16
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Take one off and just stick it next to my ear on my head.
01:32:18
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You know, like put it forward.
01:32:18
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- It's even more ridiculous.
01:32:20
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It's still on your head, it's still squishing.
01:32:21
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Anyway, one EarPod and a dog is all you need.
01:32:25
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- So earlier today, there was a rumor
01:32:29
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that Apple was in talks to buy McLaren
01:32:32
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who makes supercars and many, many other things
01:32:35
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works on an F1 team or it is an F1 team or whatever.
01:32:38
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- Strollers.
01:32:40
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- Strollers.
01:32:41
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- Different company, right?
01:32:42
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- Yeah, it's a different company.
01:32:43
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They were going to buy McLaren, then they were going to make a strategic investment
01:32:47
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in McLaren, and then, no, they're definitely not looking at McLaren.
01:32:50
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No, they're not.
01:32:51
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No, nobody's looking at us.
01:32:52
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Leave us alone.
01:32:53
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So what do we think about this?
01:32:55
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Is this a thing?
01:32:56
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It doesn't sound like this is a thing, but if it was a thing, then certainly both companies
01:33:01
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would be saying, "Oh, no, that's not a thing."
01:33:02
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Well, this is a McLaren spokesperson official comment.
01:33:05
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Obviously, Apple's not commenting.
01:33:06
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Well, sometimes they do on these things to deny them, but the McLaren says, "We can confirm
01:33:11
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The McLaren is not in discussions with Apple in in respect of any potential investment
01:33:16
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I don't know who the sex has any respect of it's probably some weird Britishism
01:33:19
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But anyway in respect of any potential investment that doesn't rule out them buying them outright. That's just an investment
01:33:25
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So all they have denied is the investment that didn't even bother to deny buying them outright
01:33:29
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So I feel like this is a bad job from corporate PR
01:33:33
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If you're gonna do the thing where you just deny everything whether it's sure or not
01:33:36
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But either way obviously it seemed like the goal of the PR was no no, no forget everything you heard
01:33:40
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And that's all BS, which is fine. Go ahead and do that and then you know three weeks later
01:33:44
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It can turn out to be different either way. Yes, it deny everything
01:33:47
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You can't issue a denial that you forget to deny
01:33:49
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One of the possibilities because now I can't help but read that and say oh, so I guess they're not investing in you
01:33:53
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They bought you out
01:33:54
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But anyway setting aside the corporate PR speak my question all this is of all the car companies in the world
01:34:00
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That Apple is gonna buy
01:34:02
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Does it make sense that they would buy McLaren?
01:34:05
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Obviously Tesla doesn't want them because they're mad at each other and whatever right because that we've talked about that deal in the past
01:34:10
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likely they would be a good fit, but that Musk doesn't want to do it and, you know,
01:34:16
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whatever. They have some bad blood there that marriage doesn't seem like it's going to happen,
01:34:20
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although it totally makes sense strategically for both companies if Apple wants to get into
01:34:24
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cars. But McLaren? Tell me the synergies.
01:34:28
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Yeah, I don't know anything about McLaren, but I thought the same thing of, like, if
01:34:37
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If Apple is really making a car,
01:34:39
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and if they really are,
01:34:41
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if it's what we expect it to be,
01:34:43
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which would be most likely only electric cars,
01:34:48
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most likely for the mass market,
01:34:51
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starting at the high end probably first,
01:34:53
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and then coming down over time as they could.
01:34:55
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- Kinda like Tesla. - Similar to what Tesla's
01:34:56
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doing, right.
01:34:58
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It seems like, and that's why,
01:35:00
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if you're thinking about would Apple buy another car company
01:35:02
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if they wanted to get into the car business,
01:35:03
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it seems like, yeah, Tesla's the obvious one to buy
01:35:06
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because it seems like whatever Apple would do
01:35:08
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in the car business would be very close
01:35:10
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to what Tesla is already doing in the car business.
01:35:12
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And there would just be lots of duplicated effort
01:35:16
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for Apple to reach where Tesla already is.
01:35:18
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- Or the other angle is the thing
01:35:20
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that neither Tesla nor Apple are good at.
01:35:22
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Tesla is a newish car company.
01:35:24
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They haven't been building cars for very long.
01:35:26
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Their original cars are based on Lotus things,
01:35:28
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and Apple has never built a car.
01:35:30
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One of the other investment or strategic partnership
01:35:35
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or purchase things you can do is find a company
01:35:38
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that has been building cars forever
01:35:39
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and kind of knows how to do that
01:35:41
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in the way that it has been done in the past.
01:35:43
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A company with car manufacturing experience,
01:35:45
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mass car manufacturing experience.
01:35:47
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Tesla doesn't have that and Apple doesn't have that.
01:35:49
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So you could also say,
01:35:50
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"Oh, maybe they go with like a Honda or something,"
01:35:52
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because it's like, "Oh, or Toyota or BMW."
01:35:54
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We keep hearing them talking to BMW about things
01:35:57
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and those companies that do,
01:35:59
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whatever that company is called,
01:36:00
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Magna Steer or whatever that does like the,
01:36:03
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subcontractor for BMW. Those kind of deals make sense to me because it's
01:36:07
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complementary. Apple's bringing one thing but they don't know how the hell to make
01:36:09
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a car. And in that respect Tesla doesn't really know how to make a car either.
01:36:13
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They're just kind of figuring out as they go along. They're doing a good job
01:36:15
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but they don't have the years and years of experience in terms of like the
01:36:18
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Toyota assembly line and mass-market things. McLaren does not make a lot of
01:36:23
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cars let's be honest. They don't know how to make thousands and thousands and
01:36:26
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thousands of cars. Yes, the only synergy I see is McLaren has that Apple aesthetic
01:36:32
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where everything is beautiful and clean and super expensive and the pictures of their factory are
01:36:36
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amazing and did you see that uh what is that Netflix thing it's uh it's some supercar thing
01:36:42
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at apex the story of the supercar or something it's on Netflix it's a documentary it's so so
01:36:47
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but you get to see a lot of shots of the inside of uh the factories of these various car makers
01:36:51
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less so Ferrari because I have a feeling Ferrari didn't want to participate in this at all which
01:36:54
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is kind of a shame but you can kind of tell we couldn't get much access to Ferrari anyway um
01:36:59
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Everything looks beautiful. The McLaren car factory looks like you would imagine an Apple car factory would look, but guess what? They're building supercars there.
01:37:06
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They're building cars that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. That is not
01:37:11
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what the tree that Apple's barking up. And by the way,
01:37:14
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they also have an F1 team and they all do a bunch of other stuff that does
01:37:17
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not really have any particular synergy with Apple.
01:37:20
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Maybe Apple might someday make a car or something related to the cars. Is Apple gonna get into F1?
01:37:24
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No, I feel like we're reaching.
01:37:26
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- Yeah, that's the thing.
01:37:27
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I mean, like, if Apple were to buy or strategically invest
01:37:31
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a lot in another car company,
01:37:33
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I would expect it to be somebody who makes a lot of cars,
01:37:38
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or who already has the kind of car in development,
01:37:41
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or the kind of skills that Apple would be using
01:37:43
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for things like electric cars.
01:37:45
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McLaren seems to have neither of those.
01:37:46
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You know, it's a very different kind of company.
01:37:49
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If I had to put forth a company that maybe might be,
01:37:53
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I'd say maybe Nissan, 'cause they have the Leaf project
01:37:55
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that actually-- - Oh, please.
01:37:56
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- Ugh, you're killing me here.
01:37:58
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- No, but look, Nissan is a company
01:38:01
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that needs a lot of design help, let's be honest.
01:38:02
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- They need a lot of help in every area
01:38:04
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of making cars at this point.
01:38:06
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They have really lost their way lately.
01:38:08
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- Yeah, but mostly in design choices.
01:38:10
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What they do have is a successful electric car
01:38:14
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that is already, like they already have
01:38:16
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a lot of the stuff required to do that.
01:38:18
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They have a massive network of factories,
01:38:21
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showrooms, dealers, service centers, parts.
01:38:24
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They have all the stuff that is hard,
01:38:26
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and they can make lots of cars at reasonable prices.
01:38:29
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So these are all the challenges of doing a new car company,
01:38:33
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especially a new consumer-focused car company
01:38:36
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that's going to try to sell lots of cars.
01:38:37
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So a company, maybe not exactly Nissan,
01:38:40
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but a company like Nissan would make way more sense
01:38:43
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to invest in or partner with or to just outright buy
01:38:45
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if that was possible.
01:38:47
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That would make way more sense if Apple wants to do
01:38:51
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what we think they're trying to do than McLaren.
01:38:53
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- Please Apple, don't buy Nissan, please.
01:38:55
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of all the car companies.
01:38:56
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I mean, I would say you'd be better off buying GM than Nissan.
01:38:59
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That's how bad I think it is.
01:39:00
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Wow, that's saying a lot.
01:39:03
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I would say-- and Matt Drance put this idea in my head--
01:39:07
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what about Lotus?
01:39:09
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But what do they have?
01:39:10
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They have design aesthetically and chassis design for sure.
01:39:15
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Well, Apple doesn't need the aesthetic part of it.
01:39:17
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The chassis design, sure, but the chassis design
01:39:20
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for sort of these beautiful, extremely low volume
01:39:24
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racing cars that Apple is not making and the Lotus cars are lightweight and don't have
01:39:29
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giant battery packs in them.
01:39:30
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Except, I mean, the Tesla Roadster was effectively a Lotus Elise, wasn't it?
01:39:35
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Right, but Lotus didn't put that battery in there.
01:39:37
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Elon Musk crammed it behind the back seat.
01:39:39
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Well, and the thing is, you can look at what Tesla has done in a relatively short time.
01:39:43
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And Apple, there's no reason why Apple couldn't do the same kinds of things.
01:39:47
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So the basics of just making an electric car,
01:39:51
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getting it designed, built, certified, safe on the road,
01:39:56
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and getting it into people's hands,
01:39:57
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getting a sales network going,
01:39:59
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getting a charging network going
01:40:00
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if they're not gonna use standards, all that stuff.
01:40:04
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Tesla did it so Apple could do it too, plausibly.
01:40:06
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Tesla did it in a relatively short time,
01:40:08
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relative to people like Nissan,
01:40:10
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a relatively short time with a lot of budget constraints
01:40:15
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and a lot of trying to prove the idea first to people
01:40:18
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and try to get people to even consider an all electric car
01:40:22
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and especially a very expensive one.
01:40:24
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So, Tesla had to do all that themselves and they did.
01:40:27
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So, Apple could, there's nothing stopping Apple from doing it
01:40:31
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where Apple would need help
01:40:33
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is in the more mass market stuff.
01:40:35
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So, yeah, they can make their own chassis.
01:40:36
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They don't need someone else to make a chassis
01:40:38
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if they feel like it.
01:40:40
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They don't need someone else to do design.
01:40:43
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whatever McLaren's designing,
01:40:45
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Apple would have their own opinions,
01:40:46
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and that, you know, it's almost like,
01:40:49
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like if you're buying a house,
01:40:51
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if you're looking at houses to buy,
01:40:53
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and you walk in to one, and there's like this,
01:40:55
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this like two-year-old, you know,
01:40:58
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some nearly brand new kitchen,
01:41:01
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and it's all designed the wrong way,
01:41:03
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but you're just like, man, like,
01:41:05
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it would be really wasteful to buy this place,
01:41:08
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and to hate this kitchen, even, 'cause it's brand new,
01:41:12
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Now what are you gonna do, like remodel a brand new place?
01:41:14
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That's incredibly wasteful, like that's bad.
01:41:17
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I think McLaren being involved in the design
01:41:19
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of the Apple car would have a similar thing.
01:41:21
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Like you have an already established
01:41:23
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highly opinionated design company here
01:41:26
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that would conflict with whatever Apple
01:41:27
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would want its design to be.
01:41:29
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So you don't want like two very opinionated people
01:41:32
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on the same thing fighting for power.
01:41:34
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That's the whole reason why Apple
01:41:37
◼
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probably will never buy Tesla,
01:41:38
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because like Elon Musk would not let that happen,
01:41:40
◼
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is he doesn't want to have Apple come in
01:41:42
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and tell him what to do.
01:41:44
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He wants to do things his way because he's running the show
01:41:47
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and he's done pretty well so far, all things considered.
01:41:50
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So he doesn't want Apple coming in
01:41:51
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and telling him what to do.
01:41:53
◼
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So if Apple's going to buy or substantially partner
01:41:56
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with another company, it's gonna have to be
01:41:58
◼
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the kind of relationship where the other company
01:42:01
◼
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will do the stuff Apple sees as boring,
01:42:04
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maybe beneath them or just really uninteresting.
01:42:08
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and Apple will do the stuff that Apple likes to do.
01:42:10
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So software, UI, design.
01:42:13
◼
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- So the other thing is the notes related to this
01:42:15
◼
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is this other story from, you know,
01:42:18
◼
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10 days or so ago about the rumor that Apple
01:42:21
◼
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has changed the focus of their car project,
01:42:23
◼
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shifting from an emphasis on designing
01:42:25
◼
►
and producing an automobile to building out
01:42:27
◼
►
the underlying technology for an autonomous vehicle.
01:42:29
◼
►
That's a quote from this story that we'll link.
01:42:32
◼
►
That was in the New York Times actually.
01:42:33
◼
►
So it's like, hey, we're not building a car anymore.
01:42:35
◼
►
Instead, we are whatever the hell building out the underlying technology for an autonomous
01:42:42
◼
►
It makes it sound like they're making self-driving software, but you can't really do that without
01:42:45
◼
►
a target car.
01:42:46
◼
►
So I'm not quite sure.
01:42:47
◼
►
I mean, this is kind of the trickle out of the rumor that we had been hearing for many
01:42:51
◼
►
months about, oh, the project Titan, the car project has had this big reorg and big Bob
01:42:56
◼
►
Mansfield has come in and reshuffled things.
01:43:00
◼
►
And so that seems like a thing that's happening, but a big reorg and a reshuffling, we don't
01:43:04
◼
►
know the details and so this is the first trying to pin that down say oh it
01:43:07
◼
►
really happened is they're shifting their emphasis under the from designing
01:43:12
◼
►
and producing a car but you don't really shift them it's like either you're
01:43:14
◼
►
making a car you're not making a car you can't accidentally make a car like you
01:43:17
◼
►
know that's that's a pretty big shift it's like so are we going to manufacture
01:43:21
◼
►
build and sell a metal thing with wheels or are we not or are we just gonna work
01:43:26
◼
►
on like software and you know so I don't know I don't know what the hell's going
01:43:29
◼
►
on over there all I know is this project spend a lot of money and we've talked
01:43:31
◼
►
about it for a long time and there's still no car, so chop chop Apple. You got maybe
01:43:36
◼
►
maybe three more years to show something for this.
01:43:38
◼
►
I mean from these stories coming out too it sounds like there's still everything still
01:43:42
◼
►
in a lot of flux so it sounds like whatever Apple is doing is probably not imminent.
01:43:47
◼
►
Oh no we always expect it like 2020 but at this point I feel like you have to decide
01:43:51
◼
►
if you're you know you haven't decided whether you're building a car yet I don't see you
01:43:54
◼
►
having a car to sell in 2020. Like it takes a long time for these things so I don't I
01:43:58
◼
►
don't know what's going on here.
01:43:59
◼
►
restructuring the place and laying off a bunch of people like now in late 2016,
01:44:03
◼
►
that doesn't bode well for a 2020 launch date of a brand new car. A car is a lot harder to ship than
01:44:11
◼
►
other things. There's a lot involved here. Yeah, and I can imagine them partnering,
01:44:16
◼
►
like bringing McLaren back in. Because the aesthetics are so similar and because you can
01:44:21
◼
►
imagine them starting with something expensive, it wouldn't be ridiculous for them to partner.
01:44:25
◼
►
McLaren would help them manufacture this electric car that's like
01:44:29
◼
►
Apple and McLaren co-branded high-end like the apples version of the Tesla Roadster
01:44:34
◼
►
That's like I don't know
01:44:35
◼
►
I feel like that would just be a weird thing to do but there are synergies here car companies do stuff with each other all
01:44:41
◼
►
The time everyone's using Toyota's hybrid systems Volvo is reselling its self-driving stuff people using transmissions from all the entire fleet of
01:44:49
◼
►
Part sellers like ZF and everything that the supply parts to the entire industry like in the car world
01:44:54
◼
►
It's not as if there are these islands that make cars so I think anybody BMW all these rumors
01:44:59
◼
►
You've heard apples been talking to BMW forever would totally be willing to partner with Apple and any kind of thing that they want to
01:45:03
◼
►
Do related to cars. I just keep pointing back to Apple signing Apple
01:45:07
◼
►
What do you want to do because there's lots of car companies that will partner with you in various ways
01:45:11
◼
►
There's probably car companies that would let you buy them probably including Nissan
01:45:14
◼
►
Because you know, I don't think McLaren would let them buy because I don't think my laryn's hurting for money at this point
01:45:20
◼
►
But there are so many possibilities.
01:45:23
◼
►
Apple just needs to decide what it is they want to do
01:45:26
◼
►
because it's fine to waffle in secrecy,
01:45:28
◼
►
but at this point, the car project
01:45:30
◼
►
is practically an open secret.
01:45:32
◼
►
Even Tim Cook can't help but hinting at it.
01:45:35
◼
►
And if you have nothing to show for that five years from now,
01:45:38
◼
►
in one respect, it's good that Apple
01:45:39
◼
►
didn't ship something crappy, but in another respect,
01:45:42
◼
►
that's a hell of a boondoggle.
01:45:43
◼
►
It's fine to have projects and then cancel them
01:45:45
◼
►
when they don't work out, but allowing a project
01:45:47
◼
►
that's assuming this much money to go on
01:45:49
◼
►
for five, for 10 years, like a certain point,
01:45:52
◼
►
it's, I'm not gonna, you know,
01:45:54
◼
►
some cost fallacy is making you not want to cancel it
01:45:56
◼
►
and canceling it may still be the right thing to do,
01:45:59
◼
►
but canceling it five years earlier
01:46:01
◼
►
would have been the right thing to do.
01:46:03
◼
►
- So to go back a step when we were discussing
01:46:07
◼
►
who could Apple buy, if that was the answer,
01:46:10
◼
►
let me throw a really, really peculiar idea at you.
01:46:13
◼
►
What about BMW?
01:46:14
◼
►
Because according, like, I don't really understand
01:46:18
◼
►
all this businessy stuff works because I actually do work for a living instead of just running
01:46:23
◼
►
around and talking about stuff. But the owners of BMW are Stefan or Stefan Quant, Suzanne
01:46:31
◼
►
Klattin, who I believe is also a quant by birth. The two of them own 50% of the company
01:46:36
◼
►
and the public owns the other 50%. If you could convince at least 1% of the public to
01:46:40
◼
►
sell, would that work? And I mean the BMW market cap as per Google is 50 billion. So
01:46:46
◼
►
could it be done? I mean, they have the money. The problem with buying those big companies is
01:46:51
◼
►
like the same thing with the F1 team. It's like if you buy BMW, I feel like the only way that's
01:46:56
◼
►
going to fly is if you buy it with the intention to continue for at least the short term, continue
01:47:03
◼
►
being BMW, which means continuing to sell cars and, you know, regular non-electric cars and hybrid
01:47:09
◼
►
cars and develop like if you're not going to do that, if you're buying them to say, okay, and all
01:47:14
◼
►
all existing BMW lines are canceled,
01:47:15
◼
►
like you've just killed half the value of the company.
01:47:17
◼
►
And then the question is,
01:47:18
◼
►
does Apple want to continue running BMW as BMW,
01:47:23
◼
►
as like a Clarus type thing,
01:47:24
◼
►
like a wholly owned subsidiary
01:47:26
◼
►
that you're content to continue to follow BMW's plan
01:47:29
◼
►
for future cars, slowly transitioning to electric,
01:47:31
◼
►
doing all that stuff,
01:47:32
◼
►
while in the meantime also doing some Apple-y thing?
01:47:34
◼
►
It's much better and much simpler
01:47:36
◼
►
when you can buy companies that,
01:47:37
◼
►
like Apple does all the time,
01:47:39
◼
►
these little companies that you can entirely consume
01:47:42
◼
►
and say, whatever the hell you were working on before,
01:47:44
◼
►
that's great and everything, but we are either taking the technology from it or
01:47:47
◼
►
just taking the employees or just like it's going to transform and come out as
01:47:51
◼
►
an Apple product. The products you were making before are gone even if we use
01:47:56
◼
►
like the code or the technology or the people or whatever you have just become
01:48:00
◼
►
part of Apple. You can't do that with BMW, you can't buy them and say forget about all
01:48:03
◼
►
those cars that you were making before no one will ever see them again from now
01:48:07
◼
►
on we just take you and all your expertise and factories and people and
01:48:10
◼
►
designers and we'll make an Apple car and I think that doesn't fly because it
01:48:14
◼
►
destroys too much value that's currently in BMW. I mean that's fair but they took
01:48:18
◼
►
Beats and Beats is still largely Beats isn't it? I mean I don't feel that
01:48:23
◼
►
different. Yeah that's the Claris thing, wholly owned subsidiary with its own
01:48:27
◼
►
brand but that's that's a pretty big exception and I think is Beats still
01:48:30
◼
►
their biggest acquisition? It might be. I would assume. Anyway that's a that's a
01:48:35
◼
►
weird one and we talked about at the time do they get to stay Beats or become
01:48:37
◼
►
Apple's headphones. They stay Beats, but I think continuing to sell headphones is a much
01:48:42
◼
►
easier fit than Apple saying, "We want to buy this company that makes a whole line of
01:48:45
◼
►
cars and continue to sell that whole line of cars." It's not as if Apple bought Beats
01:48:51
◼
►
and Apple had been making its own line of Beats-like headphones for years and then continued
01:48:55
◼
►
to sell both of them. It didn't. It didn't have headphones like that, and now it does,
01:48:59
◼
►
and it's branding them as Beats. And Claris is the counterexample where they spun off
01:49:02
◼
►
quote-unquote this company to make all these things, and it just kind of withered on the
01:49:06
◼
►
vine. It's still out there, I think, but it never really... it was never really allowed
01:49:11
◼
►
to fly free, and nor was it, like, supported by the Apple mothership in a way that could
01:49:15
◼
►
make it really succeed.
01:49:16
◼
►
I think also, I mean, the big reason why they wouldn't buy BMW is that BMW is the anti-Apple.
01:49:23
◼
►
Their cars are full of buttons. They're just buttons for everything. There's buttons everywhere.
01:49:29
◼
►
There's physical knobs and buttons...
01:49:31
◼
►
Sometimes there's not a button to sync the right and left climate control, I hear.
01:49:35
◼
►
Oh, goodness.