186: Jony Ive Has a Lot of White Pants


00:00:00   - Do you think this is the biggest show of the year

00:00:01   or do you think the WWDC one is the biggest show of the year?

00:00:04   - I think WWDC.

00:00:06   I wouldn't say it's by a large margin,

00:00:07   but I think it's a dub dub episode.

00:00:09   Which, P.S., I've noticed myself just in the last

00:00:13   six to 12 months embracing dub dub,

00:00:15   which I always used to hate so much,

00:00:17   like the phrasing, D-U-B-D-U-B.

00:00:21   I always used to hate it so much,

00:00:23   but yeah, I've been broken.

00:00:25   - Yeah, they totally wore me down.

00:00:26   I too, I'm not usually a trendy word shortener,

00:00:30   but that one, it's just so clumsy to say WWDC

00:00:35   that that one just wore me down.

00:00:38   - Although, curiously, dub dub dub,

00:00:40   as in dub dub dub dub dot caselist dot com,

00:00:44   I can't do it, it drives me insane.

00:00:45   Like, I'm like hunching up as I'm saying it

00:00:48   because it just drives me so crazy.

00:00:50   - No, that is too far.

00:00:51   That one I was willing to just wait

00:00:53   until we drop that prefix for most domain names.

00:00:56   We're going to talk about the September 2016 Apple event.

00:01:01   We are going to try to do this in chronological order.

00:01:05   We will probably miss a little bit, but here we go.

00:01:08   We started out with Tim Cook and James Corden doing carpool karaoke, which as soon as I

00:01:15   saw this I thought, "Oh God.

00:01:18   Oh no.

00:01:19   This is not going to be good."

00:01:21   Pleasantly surprised.

00:01:22   I thought it was great.

00:01:23   I thought Tim did a great job.

00:01:24   a little awkward, but I'd have been ten times more awkward if I were there.

00:01:27   Could sing enough. I mean, he sang more than Britney Spears did, so that's a thing.

00:01:32   I thought it was really well done and a really good intro.

00:01:34   I thought it was the best interaction Tim has ever shown with a celebrity as part of an event.

00:01:38   Well, that's not a very high bar, but yes, I agree.

00:01:43   Why were you afraid? Why did you think this was going to be cringe-worthy?

00:01:48   Just because, like Tim and Bono, for example. It's just not usually good.

00:01:53   But it was great.

00:01:55   But that's not the same context.

00:01:57   That's the context of him on stage having to stand out next to his tame racing driver,

00:02:05   tame celebrity.

00:02:06   Look what I have brought you.

00:02:07   It is a Bono.

00:02:08   And I have brought you him.

00:02:10   And now I stand next to him.

00:02:12   The context is weird where you have to just be like, is this great, guys?

00:02:15   Huh?

00:02:16   Look, celebrity.

00:02:17   Whereas we've all seen the carpool karaoke, I'm assuming.

00:02:21   And that is a much more relaxed environment.

00:02:23   - Yep, Marco, Jesus Christ.

00:02:25   - You don't have to be proud of you, Marco.

00:02:27   - Never seen car, never, not once.

00:02:29   - I mean, technically, I guess now I have seen it once.

00:02:31   - Right, but before that, when this came on,

00:02:33   when you saw the back of the SUV,

00:02:35   you didn't immediately know what it was,

00:02:36   but you saw that guy sitting behind the wheel, nothing?

00:02:38   - I asked Tiff who the guy was,

00:02:40   and then when the second guy got in the car,

00:02:42   I had to ask who he was too.

00:02:43   - I feel like we need to have

00:02:44   some kind of pop culture intervention.

00:02:45   - Yeah, I mean, I am not one to really be throwing stones

00:02:49   in the glass house in which I live,

00:02:51   but holy God, Marco, you need to get a grip.

00:02:53   I don't mean you have to have seen it.

00:02:54   I don't even know what that guy's name is.

00:02:56   Just to know that this is a thing.

00:02:57   And like, oh, I recognize it.

00:02:58   It's that thing that I never watch, but not even that.

00:03:00   Anyway, that environment is much more relaxed.

00:03:04   And I knew he would do fine.

00:03:06   I should rewatch it 'cause some people

00:03:07   were trying to find issue with him.

00:03:09   But I was surprised that he would agree to it

00:03:11   because the people who usually are on that

00:03:12   are people who want to sort of unabashedly sing in a car,

00:03:17   but like in front of everybody.

00:03:20   It's like, you know, dance like nobody's watching

00:03:22   Carpool Karaoke is sing like you're in your own car and no one can see you but everybody

00:03:26   can see you because you're on the internet. I'm assuming Tim Cook must be a fan of that

00:03:30   and said, "You know what? I'd like to do that." Because if someone who didn't want to sing

00:03:34   in front of the world was forced to do it, they would look way worse. I mean, I know

00:03:39   I would never want to do this and I can't imagine faking it to the degree that he did.

00:03:43   So I think he really wanted to be on this thing because he likes to sing and he got

00:03:46   to sing.

00:03:47   All right, so I thought the intro was great. I also really liked when was it that they did the

00:03:52   Bill Hader introduction when he was like doing he was directing the big

00:03:57   the big show intro. Do you know what I'm thinking of? Was that dub dub?

00:04:01   Yeah, yeah, but this was better because this this had this was sort of of the moment in a

00:04:05   way that didn't look like they were trying to cash in because I think it was just at the right

00:04:09   point for carpool karaoke where it's not at the peak but it's not at the beginning it's like

00:04:12   like, but it's not old hat.

00:04:14   And I really, he looked like he had genuine enthusiasm

00:04:17   for being on this thing that he had seen other people on.

00:04:20   And it was like, relaxed.

00:04:21   And I know what you're talking about.

00:04:21   The Bill Hader thing was funny,

00:04:22   but that was like more higher budget, more complicated.

00:04:27   Like this, I feel like it was just simple.

00:04:30   It's like person in a car.

00:04:33   It's funny to see Tim Cook in that context.

00:04:35   It was short.

00:04:36   I really liked it.

00:04:36   One of the best intros to an Apple event ever.

00:04:38   Although it's kind of a shame that it was totally unrelated

00:04:41   to anything that was presented really, but that's fine.

00:04:44   - The joke that James Corden made about how he had heard

00:04:47   that the new iPhone, or perhaps it was the new version

00:04:49   of iOS, was the most secure ever, and Tim, do you know

00:04:52   where I read that?

00:04:54   On a leak posted to the internet?

00:04:56   - That was my least favorite part because--

00:04:58   - Oh, I thought it was funny.

00:04:58   - It shows that the host doesn't understand the nuance

00:05:02   of what he's talking about, because is this gonna be

00:05:05   the most secure iPhone?

00:05:05   We know what he means when he says that.

00:05:07   I'm assuming that's a plant from Apple or something like

00:05:09   that to say, hey, ask us about the security,

00:05:11   because it's gonna be, I'm assuming, more secure

00:05:13   than the past ones learning from everything they've learned

00:05:16   from all the previous iPhones and all the different FBI

00:05:18   court orders and everything, right?

00:05:20   But that has nothing to do with whether rumors

00:05:23   of how the phone is being designed leak onto the internet.

00:05:25   That has nothing to do with the security of the phone.

00:05:27   They're totally unrelated except for the fact

00:05:29   that the word security can be applied to both of them.

00:05:32   - Why you gotta be such a buzzkill?

00:05:33   - I'm just saying, like it's a typical sort of,

00:05:35   you wanna make a tech joke, but you're not a tech person,

00:05:38   So you think you really nailed it?

00:05:40   Ha ha, isn't that funny?

00:05:41   And I feel like Tim Cook was like,

00:05:43   do you see the irony in that?

00:05:44   Tim Cook should have been like, yes,

00:05:45   I see the irony in that.

00:05:47   Actually, I don't because it doesn't make any sense,

00:05:48   but I will humor you because I know

00:05:49   if I have to explain it to you, that won't work.

00:05:51   But I'm explaining it to you because Tim Cook wouldn't.

00:05:53   That joke didn't make any sense

00:05:55   and therefore was less funny than it should have been.

00:05:57   - Ah, you need to turn your brain off

00:05:58   and turn on the emotion chip from time to time.

00:06:00   I thought it was funny.

00:06:01   - Nothing to do with emotion chip.

00:06:02   Good humor makes sense.

00:06:03   The best humor makes sense and it's funny.

00:06:05   That's why it's funny, because it makes sense.

00:06:07   I love this show.

00:06:08   I do too, but I'm going to kill one or both of you by the end of it.

00:06:12   Anything else about Tim and James?

00:06:14   They had a big opening thing about Apple Music too.

00:06:16   Oh yeah, yeah, I guess you're right.

00:06:18   It was just like, "Hey, Apple Music exists.

00:06:20   It's good.

00:06:21   You guys should try it.

00:06:22   Here's your semiannual reminder to please subscribe to Apple Music.

00:06:26   Here's how awesome it is."

00:06:27   Yeah, 17 million subscribers or something.

00:06:30   I'm watching the thing run in the background now.

00:06:32   I'm assuming we'll comment on it almost in real time.

00:06:35   But they're pushing it, like, this is what they usually do at the beginning of the thing.

00:06:40   They have some feel-good stuff, some funny stuff, and some "hey, let me remind you about

00:06:44   whatever it is that I'm pushing that we think we've done recently that's good or doing well

00:06:48   or whatever."

00:06:49   So Apple Music is getting the push here.

00:06:50   How do you guys feel about Apple Music right now?

00:06:54   I haven't used it since the demo period ran out.

00:06:58   At that time, I thought it was okay, but I'm a pretty loyal Spotify user, and the only

00:07:05   thing that Apple Music brought to me as a Spotify user that I didn't already have was

00:07:10   being able to play things via Siri, which I did really, really like.

00:07:15   Other than that, I haven't really looked back since, to be honest with you.

00:07:18   - Yeah, I mean, I've been a subscriber the whole time.

00:07:22   In fact, we even have the family plan, but it's kind of like when I get a Netflix disc

00:07:27   back in the day, back when that was a thing,

00:07:29   and you'd let the disc sit there for like three months

00:07:32   and start realizing how much you effectively paid

00:07:34   for that disc.

00:07:35   That's kinda how I am about Apple Music.

00:07:37   We have the membership,

00:07:38   and I do occasionally place something on it,

00:07:40   but if I actually work out how much I've paid

00:07:43   for each one of those tracks that I've played off of it,

00:07:46   I probably shouldn't be using it.

00:07:48   I think I've determined that I'm just not

00:07:50   really a stream music customer,

00:07:52   because most of what I listen to is either podcasts or fish,

00:07:55   neither of which are on there. I think I kind of split the difference between you guys. I

00:07:59   subscribed during the trial period. I thought I would have no interest in it whatsoever. I was

00:08:05   surprised that I actually discovered new music with it. Not that their "For You" and "Suggestions"

00:08:09   things are all that great, but that was the point where I'm trying a free trial. I'm gonna, you know,

00:08:14   put some time into going through it, and I did find some music that I like. What I did when I found

00:08:18   that music is that I bought it because I didn't know I was going to continue the Apple Music trial,

00:08:23   so I just purchased all the songs that I found that I liked, which is nice, and then I let the thing lapse because I'm like

00:08:28   Yeah, doesn't I don't use it kind of like Marco

00:08:31   I don't

00:08:31   I'm not a streaming music kind of person and it was fairly expensive or something that I was just gonna let run in the background

00:08:36   So I didn't

00:08:37   Now I find myself kind of missing

00:08:39   the fact that I don't have access to all the music that Apple music makes available and sometimes I'm like

00:08:43   You know what? I like to hear some new music and I can't because I don't have Apple music

00:08:47   But anyway, I'm probably just not a stream music subscriber my experience out in the world with people who are

00:08:53   are streaming music subscribers is I still see Spotify having a pretty good hold on things.

00:08:59   So I don't think Apple Music has bumped them out, but Apple Music seems like the kind of Apple Maps

00:09:04   where even if it's not better than Google Maps, just by being the default and being constantly

00:09:08   promoted in this way, I think they're going to start to erode some of the competitors just

00:09:13   for the sheer force of constant promotion and defaultedness and Siri integration from Apple,

00:09:21   essentially. Next thing I believe was iWork, which they said they were doing some updates,

00:09:27   but most importantly and interestingly, selfishly anyway, was real-time collaborative editing,

00:09:32   which I believe they said was going to be both native and web-based. Is that true?

00:09:37   Actually, that came after Nintendo, but a lot of it's a lot. Yes, they did say there was a web.

00:09:42   They said you can do this on your Mac, on your iOS devices, and even on the web. They didn't show

00:09:47   any of those things, but yeah. Is the web the same thing they launched two years ago, or is it like

00:09:51   like a new version based on whatever's underpinning this stuff?

00:09:53   I don't know. Like, it's hard to, like, what they were demoing in some ways is a total

00:09:58   Apple move where it's like, Google, that, you know, Google the most well-known thing

00:10:03   where a bunch of people can edit a document at the same time. That's just a bunch of colored

00:10:07   cursors in text. But we're going to do a presentation with graphics, and look how beautiful the

00:10:12   presentation, you know, it's more complicated, it's more visually complicated to have multiple

00:10:15   people doing graphics at the same time without having them, like, flash and clip over each

00:10:19   each other, everything's beautifully composited

00:10:21   and multiple people are collaborating

00:10:22   on this graphic document or whatever.

00:10:24   So that is more impressive than just a bunch of cursors

00:10:27   moving around a text field.

00:10:30   But almost everything about iWork has always been,

00:10:34   has looked nicer visually, whether it's on the Mac

00:10:36   or even on the web, it looks really nice.

00:10:38   But in the end, what people care about is,

00:10:41   does it always work?

00:10:42   Is the performance good?

00:10:44   Like simple and reliable is better than super fancy

00:10:49   and not so reliable.

00:10:50   And thus far, all of Apple's sort of collaborative editing,

00:10:54   I work on the web on all platforms all at the same time,

00:10:57   document syncing crap has been nice to look at,

00:11:01   but ranging from clunky to downright broken,

00:11:04   downright broken being me fruitlessly trying

00:11:08   to get my daughter to edit the same document

00:11:10   using entirely Apple native apps

00:11:11   on all the Apple's latest operating system

00:11:13   and getting repeatedly locked out from inability

00:11:15   to even save on any platform.

00:11:17   That's the worst case.

00:11:19   I don't know what to say about this

00:11:20   'cause I haven't tried it yet,

00:11:21   but I can tell you that my confidence is not high

00:11:23   that this is gonna take the world by storm.

00:11:25   - Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty good summary.

00:11:27   Like, it remains to be seen, basically.

00:11:30   Nobody has really had time to use this yet.

00:11:32   The credibility level here is low,

00:11:34   the expectations are low because of the mediocre

00:11:36   and poor past performances in this department.

00:11:39   So we'll see what happens.

00:11:40   - Yeah, so maybe we got the order wrong,

00:11:43   as Jon alluded to, but hell has frozen over-ish,

00:11:49   and Nintendo and Apple are sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G.

00:11:54   Pretty much the entire internet had the same reaction I did,

00:11:56   which was, "Holy crap, is John Syracuse still breathing?"

00:12:00   - I did have it on in the background,

00:12:02   but I don't see how this is such a big deal for most people

00:12:05   because like Pokemon Go,

00:12:07   I know it wasn't Nintendo developing it,

00:12:09   it was Niantic or whatever, but it's Nintendo's property.

00:12:12   And like that was the beachhead, you know?

00:12:16   It's an incredibly popular game based on Nintendo IP on your phone.

00:12:22   It's not the same as Mario coming to your phone, but the big event was, "Hey, Nintendo

00:12:29   has finally..."

00:12:30   I mean, we knew this from months and months and months ago, where they announced, "We're

00:12:32   going to make games for mobile phones."

00:12:35   And the announcement was not, "We're going to stop making games for our own platforms.

00:12:38   In fact, we're going to continue making platforms.

00:12:40   We're going to make a new platform.

00:12:42   We won't tell you anything about it, but it's a code name NX and blah, blah, blah."

00:12:46   Like they're still doing that, but they're also doing stuff for phones.

00:12:50   And we knew that for a long time.

00:12:52   And Pokemon Go shows they're doing stuff for phones and they're successful at it.

00:12:56   And this is just a continuation of that strategy.

00:12:57   Now I think the impressive thing is that Nintendo saw fit to, or I don't know, I don't know

00:13:03   who's pulling it, who's pushing here.

00:13:04   Is Nintendo coming to Apple and saying we'd like to do this and let's work out a deal?

00:13:08   Because it's good publicity for Nintendo to be in this presentation, right?

00:13:12   And it's good for Apple to say which phone platform is Mario on first, and I assume exclusively

00:13:18   for some period of time anyway, our platform.

00:13:20   So I would imagine that it was Apple coming to Nintendo, but Nintendo was probably receptive

00:13:24   to the idea that we're already entering this phone thing.

00:13:27   Pokemon Go is a big hit that we sort of outsource to have some other developer do.

00:13:31   If we're going to bring our crown jewels, we want to have the best possible experience,

00:13:37   come with the highest end phone vendor, the most successful phone vendor, the one with

00:13:41   the best reputation.

00:13:42   And honestly, there's a better fit between Apple and Nintendo in terms of their philosophy

00:13:50   and sort of like kid-friendliness and how Apple patrols the App Store and tries to keep

00:13:56   it, you know, nice.

00:13:58   Like that's, it reminds me a lot of the Nintendo seal of quality, right?

00:14:00   So I think there's a good meeting of the minds between these two companies here.

00:14:03   But then to have Miyamoto come out as if it's like an E3 presentation, Nintendo doesn't

00:14:07   even do E3 presentations anymore because they always do this Nintendo Direct stuff, to come

00:14:10   out on stage himself. That's a pretty big deal. Now, I feel bad because he didn't do

00:14:16   particularly well. He always insists on saying something in English before playing in the

00:14:19   translator. This is not a new thing. He does this very frequently. But he seemed nervous

00:14:23   or badly rehearsed or both, and he kind of stumbled through his presentation. But in

00:14:29   the end, I don't think it's that big a deal. It's not a shock. We're not shocked that this

00:14:33   happened. It's just a straight line from everything that has come before. The games that they

00:14:39   showed are not particularly revolutionary. It's a runner game with Mario and some other

00:14:44   things that are already known to be well suited. If anything, Pokemon Go was a more interesting

00:14:52   and daring game than the stuff they showed today because, I mean, what was that game

00:14:59   before Pokemon Go from the company that made it? That was the same idea and then brought

00:15:05   to an important property, but it is more of a risk to say we're going to take this very

00:15:08   important property, Pokemon, and try it on a gameplay style that is very phone dependent,

00:15:14   that was not wildly successful, Ingress is what I called it, was not wildly successful

00:15:20   on this previous game, but maybe the combination will be good, and it was, and these Mario

00:15:24   games are even more conservative than that.

00:15:26   You know, tried and true gameplay styles with the crown jewels, intellectual property from

00:15:31   Nintendo. I'm sure they'll do well. I'm not sure they'll do as well as Pokemon Go because

00:15:37   that was kind of like a craze and as we talked about before, a great time for it because

00:15:43   it's the summer and people are outdoors and it became a big news story or whatever. But

00:15:48   otherwise I'm happy to see Nintendo continuing to plot along in its strategy. I'm happy to

00:15:53   see perhaps, I'm assuming they're developing things in-house, perhaps they could get more

00:15:57   of the money from this that will help them fund the whole rest of their company and make

00:16:02   sure the NX isn't a piece of crap, even if it uses cartridges.

00:16:07   That's it?

00:16:08   I'm shocked.

00:16:09   I mean, what do you guys think about it?

00:16:11   Are you looking forward to buying this game or do you just not care?

00:16:14   I mean, I'll probably buy it.

00:16:17   They had made some sort of reference to, I forget how they phrased it, but "you'll have

00:16:21   to pay for it, and then they kind of implied that there wouldn't really be any IAP in-app

00:16:28   purchases.

00:16:29   I forget exactly what was said, but then I thought Underscore had noticed that actually

00:16:33   there will be IAP.

00:16:35   I imagine there has to be.

00:16:36   And by the way, last time we talked about Pokémon GO, I said that my family was playing

00:16:40   it but I wasn't, and so far they were all playing it for free.

00:16:42   That has passed.

00:16:43   My wife has spent God knows how much money on this game.

00:16:46   Whatever monetization strategy they have or whatever scarce resource is required, either

00:16:50   her play style or the game itself leads to you eventually running out of some resource

00:16:54   that you want and you don't want to wait or get it by grinding, so she just buys it.

00:16:58   I think she spent like 40 bucks on this game, probably more.

00:17:01   I try not to even look anymore.

00:17:02   So I mean in all fairness, like if you had three people in your house playing a single

00:17:08   Nintendo game, how much would you spend if it was any other Nintendo product?

00:17:13   If you spent 60 bucks, then play it for like hundreds of hours like a Zelda game.

00:17:18   Like that's the old.

00:17:19   But then you'd also have like, you know, the in your hands you'd be burning through like this $50 controller and the $40 nunchuck and all

00:17:25   This other garbage you have to plug into it. I mean Nintendo doesn't sell much for less than 40 bucks

00:17:29   I know but but yeah

00:17:30   You buy you buy that's you buy that stuff already like the whole idea with the old console thing was you buy the console for?

00:17:35   500 bucks with all the accessories then you buy a series of $60 games each one gives you

00:17:39   What you hope is $60 worth of enjoyment some games last longer some games are shorter

00:17:43   But it's like you pay 60 bucks and you get the whole thing

00:17:46   I play destiny which is like 60 bucks plus 20 or 30 bucks a year for the expansions plus the monthly fee for

00:17:54   PlayStation Network, but that that still works out money wise now Pokemon go the problem is it's basically limitless

00:18:00   Like you can't spend that there's a limit to how much you can spend on destiny per year minus the silver stuff

00:18:06   But even that I feel like even if you've got a limited money to spend there's not that much to buy in the game and

00:18:11   Everything you can buy in the game is cosmetic

00:18:12   So if you buy every single expansion and you pay for PSN and you buy your PlayStation,

00:18:17   there's a limit.

00:18:18   Whereas with Pokemon Go, you could spend your entire life savings buying Pokeballs and using

00:18:22   them.

00:18:23   It seems like it's an unlimited potential pit of money.

00:18:25   And so, I don't know.

00:18:27   Those games bother me a little bit more because in order to continue to have fun with the

00:18:32   game, you have to spend money.

00:18:34   And you don't get new content for that money.

00:18:36   You just get the ability to continue playing the content you have.

00:18:39   hoping the Mario games aren't like that, but that's a winning monetization strategy that

00:18:43   people seem comfortable with, which is if you want to grind, grind. If you don't want

00:18:46   to grind, pass money and we'll shortcut that for you. Pokemon Go doesn't seem abusive in

00:18:51   that way, and I'm assuming the Mario games won't be either, but I certainly prefer the

00:18:57   other proposition, even the proposition of destiny, which I think is striking a reasonable

00:19:00   balance of extracting money from me steadily over the course of years, but also giving

00:19:05   me hundreds and hundreds of hours of entertainment.

00:19:07   Yeah, so a couple other quick thoughts on Nintendo.

00:19:10   First of all, Super Mario Go already has an entry that you can search for and find in

00:19:17   the App Store.

00:19:18   I'm sorry, Super Mario Run, I just called it Super Mario Go.

00:19:21   It has an entry, a page if you will, on the App Store where you would typically see "Buy"

00:19:28   or "Get."

00:19:29   It says "Notify," which I've never seen for an app before, which I thought was kind of

00:19:33   neat.

00:19:34   This is the first.

00:19:35   So that's different and it would be super cool if developers could leverage that, like

00:19:41   not blessed developers but regular schmoes like us could use this to leverage the App

00:19:46   Store to kind of generate a little bit of buzz about forthcoming apps if you so chose.

00:19:51   But still, that's kind of neat and any thoughts on that before I get to my other thought?

00:19:57   So the iBook Store, I used this for when I was selling my iBooks, has a pre-order system

00:20:01   where you can put the book up and people can't buy it but they can pre-order, which is even

00:20:04   better. Instead of just notifying people when it's available, they can give you the money

00:20:06   right up front. And I made a lot on the pre-orders because people who were anxiously awaiting

00:20:10   the book, most of them pre-ordered. So I guess that type of thing should come to the iOS

00:20:15   store.

00:20:16   Yeah. And then the other interesting thing, which I think is worth briefly mentioning,

00:20:21   is that they specifically said on stage that there will be a sticker pack for iMessage

00:20:26   that is themed around Super Mario Run, which is what I think they've been pushing. It runs

00:20:34   relatively heavily since iOS 10 was announced at WWDC.

00:20:37   So I'm curious to see if anything comes of that,

00:20:39   but I thought that tie-in was kind of neat.

00:20:41   - Yeah, sticker patch of the new ringtones.

00:20:42   It's an opportunity for lots of tie-in

00:20:44   to the big companies and big promotions.

00:20:46   - I wonder if there will be more strict policing

00:20:49   of copyright infringement.

00:20:51   I know Apple in the past, specifically with Nintendo,

00:20:54   has actually been pretty good about tracking down

00:20:57   like at the very least NES emulators and Mario things.

00:21:00   They still snuck through.

00:21:01   But now that Nintendo itself is in the store, is Nintendo more motivated to have its team

00:21:07   of lawyers wandering the store and stomping on anything that uses Mario in the name, uses

00:21:11   its artwork, the million people trying to sell sticker packs that have pictures of Goombas

00:21:17   and mushrooms and all the other stuff?

00:21:22   You're one Google search away from trying to sell a 99.7-cent sticker pack full of someone

00:21:26   else's IP.

00:21:27   Now that Nintendo is actually trying to sell its own version of that stuff

00:21:30   I imagine it will be harder to sneak that stuff through if not

00:21:34   That's gonna be weird when you do a search for Nintendo sticker pack

00:21:38   You find a million sticker packs and buried somewhere in there because Apple search is awful as the real Nintendo one

00:21:43   That will be super weird. We'll see

00:21:45   In real time follow up from the chat room people are saying that I think they're talking about Mario run

00:21:50   Paid up front knowing that purchase. That's what I'm reading in the chat room. Who knows mystery

00:21:55   - That's not what it says on the iTunes store page.

00:21:57   - Well it says here, user RT98_ says,

00:22:00   basically that there's gonna be like a trial level

00:22:03   first for free, and then you pay one fixed

00:22:06   in-app purchase price to unlock the rest of the game.

00:22:08   - Right, so it's not like you have to keep buying

00:22:11   more energy or coins or whatever to be able to play.

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00:23:47   (upbeat music)

00:23:50   So next thing in the presentation was the Apple Watch, and we can start with the name,

00:23:56   I suppose. It is now called the Apple Watch Series 2.

00:23:59   I think you mean Season 2.

00:24:01   Nice.

00:24:02   I see what you did there. I dig it, though. I really do like this name. I don't know what

00:24:09   alternatives were kicked around. I'm not sure what I would have recommended, but I really

00:24:13   like the idea of Series 2. I don't know why I prefer it over just Apple Watch 2, but I

00:24:21   think I do prefer it. Maybe because it's more about fashion than the iPhone arguably is,

00:24:27   but two thumbs up for the name in my opinion. What do you guys think about the name alone?

00:24:30   Oh, I think it's great. I mean, the Apple, the first Apple Watch, which now has no name,

00:24:36   because it's not the Series 1, that's different, which we'll get to. The first Apple Watch,

00:24:41   Apple Watch Series Zero, that had kind of an odd naming structure where you had the

00:24:47   Apple Watch Sport, which is the one that everybody actually bought, you had just the Apple Watch

00:24:51   with no modifiers, which is the steel one, which is like the middle one, and you had

00:24:55   the Apple Watch Edition, which nobody bought.

00:24:57   And so you have, it was this weird combo, and nobody really knew what to call the steel

00:25:03   one, and everyone would call the Sport one the Apple Watch, even though technically that

00:25:07   was the name of a different model.

00:25:09   So now they've kind of unified the naming.

00:25:11   Now it seems from their website that the entire series two

00:25:15   is just called Apple Watch series two.

00:25:17   There is no more sport or steel distinction.

00:25:19   - Oh is that right?

00:25:20   - From what I can find, I could be wrong,

00:25:23   but it sure looks like they're dropping

00:25:25   like the sport distinction, now it's just,

00:25:28   now they're just Apple Watch.

00:25:29   And you can get the Apple Watch in steel,

00:25:31   or all these wonderful aluminum colors,

00:25:33   or the Apple Watch edition still has its own name,

00:25:35   and the Apple Watch Hermes has its own name.

00:25:38   I apologize to the great nation of France

00:25:40   for how I'm pronouncing Hermes, it's probably wrong.

00:25:42   And I apologize.

00:25:43   - The Apple Watch and Nike Plus,

00:25:45   which is another weird, like another company's name

00:25:47   gets to define a single product.

00:25:49   - Yeah, so they're basically moving into these like,

00:25:52   you know, these major brand affiliations now

00:25:55   with like fashion and sport brands.

00:25:56   And you know, whatever, I don't know anything

00:25:58   about that world, so that probably makes sense,

00:26:00   I can't say.

00:26:01   But overall, naming-wise, this is a very,

00:26:05   I think it's a decent update.

00:26:06   The only weird thing about it though,

00:26:07   is as mentioned earlier, so there's a Series 2, that's fine.

00:26:11   There's also a Series 1.

00:26:12   Now this is almost the original Apple Watch,

00:26:15   but with a really major difference,

00:26:17   and that is with the new Apple Watch,

00:26:20   they have upgraded the CPU to a pretty substantial upgrade.

00:26:23   Now it's a dual-core one, which is allegedly a lot faster,

00:26:27   but they said up to 50%,

00:26:28   so they're probably clocked lower, who knows?

00:26:30   Whatever it is, it's a dual-core model,

00:26:33   it's a different CPU that is probably

00:26:35   a lot faster in practice.

00:26:37   and they're in what I commend as a great move

00:26:40   for everybody, owners, developers.

00:26:43   They have, they're basically retroactively installing

00:26:47   this new CPU in the old model as they continue

00:26:51   to sell the old model which is now called

00:26:53   Apple Watch Series 1.

00:26:54   So you can get Series 1 which is just the old Apple Watch

00:26:57   with a faster CPU which is a big difference.

00:26:59   Then you can get Series 2 which is the newest model

00:27:02   which is that same CPU but with a higher grade

00:27:06   waterproofing with GPS and a brighter screen. Is that it?

00:27:10   I mean it's totally different, the inside. Like if you looked at the speaker diagram,

00:27:15   the speaker is different, all the insides are different. For all I know the battery

00:27:17   is a different size. It just looks the same on the outside for the most part, but inside

00:27:21   it's basically all new. Every part of it is new. It seems the screen is new, the system

00:27:25   on the chip thingy, whatever, is new. The battery is probably new, the speaker is new,

00:27:29   the thing between the dial, the ceiling, like it just looks the same on the outside.

00:27:33   It's actually thicker.

00:27:35   - Is it actually?

00:27:36   - Yeah, it's one millimeter thicker.

00:27:37   It went from like 11 points to something like 12 point,

00:27:39   whatever.

00:27:40   - Oh, that's kind of a shame.

00:27:41   - Honestly, and honestly, like, you know, for a watch,

00:27:43   going from 11 to 12 is noticeable.

00:27:45   That is a noticeable thickness increase.

00:27:46   It's unfortunate, it's still not gonna be like,

00:27:49   it's not gonna be like chunky or anything.

00:27:51   Basically, whatever you thought about thickness before,

00:27:54   you will still think that, but it is kind of unfortunate

00:27:56   that it went in that direction on one of the products

00:27:58   that could have used thinning out.

00:28:00   - Yeah, it's nice though that they don't sell

00:28:03   the Apple Watch anymore.

00:28:04   First of all, it kind of makes it like, like Macintosh.

00:28:07   The first Macintosh they introduced was not called the Mac 128K, because why would they

00:28:11   need a distinction?

00:28:12   It was just Macintosh, period.

00:28:13   Uh, app, I, first iPhone was just iPhone, period.

00:28:16   And the first Apple Watch was just Apple Watch, even though it had all those suffixes like

00:28:19   addition and sport and so on and so forth, but there was no number or anything.

00:28:22   So now that product that we all own is gone.

00:28:25   Like, you can't buy it anymore.

00:28:27   And imagine if that happened with phones.

00:28:28   Like imagine if, if when they took the 6s and 6s plus and moved them down, they said,

00:28:33   And by the way, put the A10 in all of those too. That would be like amazing

00:28:36   Like this is it's kind of like the the series one is like the apology watch like we're sorry

00:28:40   That's first Apple watch CPU was so darn slow

00:28:43   but you see was supposed to ship way earlier, but the software wasn't ready so we had to hold it back for many months and

00:28:47   Yada yada yada also we didn't have watch OS 3 ready and we didn't quite know what we were doing

00:28:52   And so just forget about that watch second attempt at the same watch twice as fast inside watch OS 3

00:28:59   Just forget about that old one and the old one I think will have sentimental though. It's like it's the first watch

00:29:03   I honestly I don't think it was a bad product. I think

00:29:05   It was good hardware wise the software. They hadn't figured out yet. I forgive all of it

00:29:11   Series one is like the series one makes me more excited than the other ones because basically anyone making a watch OS app now

00:29:16   It doesn't have to be like oh I have to support

00:29:18   The the old watches like I guess they do for whoever bought those things

00:29:22   But like the window has moved up so rapidly all of a sudden everybody who buys one even if they buy the cheap one

00:29:27   this holiday season will be way faster and watchOS 3 will be way faster too.

00:29:31   So even though, I mean, this is not an entirely redesigned watch, I don't think anyone expected

00:29:37   it to be, but it's exactly what we thought it would be.

00:29:40   Bigger battery, used to power GPS that can be on all the time, great for workouts and

00:29:44   stuff like that.

00:29:45   Better waterproofing, which is hard for me to believe considering how waterproof the

00:29:49   other one was.

00:29:51   And keeping the old watch around but not leaving it around and being crappy, so I give this

00:29:54   - Give us thumbs up.

00:29:55   (laughing)

00:29:57   It's nice that they didn't just keep selling the same one

00:30:00   without changing it, just because like,

00:30:03   the first Apple Watch is really, really slow.

00:30:07   And it's good now to be able to tell somebody,

00:30:09   to go into a store and just buy an Apple Watch.

00:30:11   You don't have to tell them like,

00:30:12   "Oh, don't get this model, that's the old one that sucks."

00:30:14   Like, because you have to do that a lot of times

00:30:16   with iPads and iPhones, but now you don't have to do that

00:30:18   anymore, and well, all the Macs,

00:30:20   you don't have to do that anymore now with the watch.

00:30:22   Which is great because they're just all good.

00:30:26   And I've noticed, I've taken note recently,

00:30:30   whenever I've been out in the world,

00:30:31   like we mentioned I spent a week

00:30:33   in this beach town recently,

00:30:36   and I looked around constantly

00:30:37   kinda like taking inventory of watches,

00:30:39   'cause now I'm a watch nerd

00:30:40   and this is just what I do everywhere I go.

00:30:42   And I've kinda noticed roughly what percentage I see

00:30:46   of different smartwatches.

00:30:48   How many Apple watches do I see?

00:30:49   How many dumb watches do I see?

00:30:51   how many different Android, things that look like

00:30:54   Android Wear versus Pebble versus the Fitbit

00:30:57   and Garmin watches.

00:30:58   The single model I do see the most is the Apple Watch,

00:31:03   but I would not say the Apple Watch has more than 50%

00:31:06   of the share of smart watches I see.

00:31:08   It's kinda like the iPhone in that way.

00:31:10   It's like if you measure phone model

00:31:14   versus other individual phone models,

00:31:16   the iPhone is usually the best selling single phone

00:31:18   in the world or US or whatever,

00:31:20   But like the market share of iPhones versus all other

00:31:23   Android phones combined, the iPhone is not more than 50%.

00:31:26   It's usually a lot less.

00:31:28   That's kinda how I see in the watch world now,

00:31:31   in the smartwatch world, where when I,

00:31:32   just out and about anecdotally,

00:31:34   I see a ton of people wearing smartwatches.

00:31:36   I was totally wrong.

00:31:38   I thought this category was gonna be a little bit weird

00:31:39   and people were gonna be very slow to adopt it.

00:31:41   Nope, people love smartwatches.

00:31:43   However, the ones I see the most,

00:31:47   Apple is the single model I see the most,

00:31:49   but most people are wearing either an Android one

00:31:52   that I have a hard time recognizing,

00:31:53   like which one in particular,

00:31:54   or I do see a lot of the Fitbit ones,

00:31:57   either the skinny, like cuff band things,

00:32:01   or the square one with the diagonal bezel on it.

00:32:05   You know what I'm talking about?

00:32:06   - Yeah, I see a lot of Fitbits too,

00:32:08   and I think that, I mean,

00:32:09   I don't know what the numbers are like,

00:32:11   I don't know how Fitbit is doing,

00:32:12   but in my experience, like when you say smartwatches,

00:32:15   I was wondering if you were encountering Fitbit,

00:32:16   because people aren't wearing that as a watch,

00:32:18   to wearing it essentially as a stay fit, stay healthy,

00:32:21   lose weight, remain active measurement thing

00:32:25   because Fitbit, even more so than the Pebble,

00:32:28   Fitbit has the advantage of like,

00:32:30   it's totally focused on fitness, it's cheap,

00:32:32   it's practically disposable,

00:32:34   battery lasts a really, really long time

00:32:36   and it syncs with your phone

00:32:37   and it just does the one thing they want it to do.

00:32:38   Whereas the Apple Watch still seems like

00:32:40   sledgehammer to kill an ant.

00:32:41   If you just wanna keep track of your steps,

00:32:44   you're gonna spend like hundreds of dollars

00:32:45   to this fancy full featured giant watch

00:32:48   with a screen that has software,

00:32:50   or just buy a crappy little rubber Fitbit

00:32:52   that if you lose it you don't care about it

00:32:54   and you have five of them?

00:32:55   - Well, so this is what I'm getting at though.

00:32:57   So it certainly appears as though the market is really,

00:33:02   you know, it's doing very well in the like

00:33:04   basic fitness tracking and maybe notifications

00:33:07   and you know, maybe some smart stuff,

00:33:08   but like it seems like these,

00:33:09   what people want most of the time from these

00:33:12   is a fitness tracker.

00:33:13   And because of that, and because all the other ones

00:33:16   that I'm seeing that are kind of exploding recently,

00:33:18   it does seem like there's a lot

00:33:19   of downward price pressure here.

00:33:21   So right now, the Apple Watch Series 2,

00:33:25   the new default Apple Watch, is now $369 starting price.

00:33:29   Before, was that, that was the one that was $399 before?

00:33:32   Right, so it was like a minor--

00:33:33   - I believe that's right. - Minor drop.

00:33:34   So to have the Apple Watch still be nearly $400

00:33:37   for the main one, when all the competition

00:33:40   is offering these like 150 or $200 watches

00:33:44   that are doing what most people actually want

00:33:46   their smartwatch to do, it turns out.

00:33:48   That's gonna put a lot of pressure on this market,

00:33:50   especially in the holiday season this year.

00:33:52   So to keep the Series 1 around at $100 less, it's $269,

00:33:57   to keep that around is really smart

00:34:00   because they have to find some way

00:34:02   to drop the price on these by a lot.

00:34:04   It is like, they can't just like get near it

00:34:08   the way they did with iPads,

00:34:09   'cause look what happened with low end

00:34:10   tablet market share.

00:34:11   Like Apple just lost it all because it turns out

00:34:13   you can make tablets really cheaply

00:34:14   and most people need a cheap tablet for tablet for

00:34:16   is videos and basic browsing and games

00:34:19   and that's fine to get the Amazon six pack.

00:34:21   But like it is very important for Apple

00:34:24   for the watch's future success to get that starting price

00:34:27   as cheap as possible and to do it like this

00:34:29   in a way that doesn't just sell the old one

00:34:31   that actually makes it like a really good model

00:34:33   'cause like looking at these models

00:34:35   if I were buying one today I'd probably get the series one

00:34:38   Also, because I don't care about GPS or water resistance.

00:34:41   So I'd probably get that one because it's a little bit smaller and $100 cheaper, let's

00:34:46   put that money towards a better band for it.

00:34:48   That's a great thing to have in the lineup.

00:34:50   So to have that be the entry price and to have that be the entry model is very, very

00:34:53   good.

00:34:54   But they are going to have to get that price down even further.

00:34:56   Well, I think they're following the iPod playbook here where it's really expensive, Mac only

00:35:02   in the beginning, whatever.

00:35:04   Or like the iPhone thing, diversifying the line.

00:35:06   iPods diversified and went downmarket really far to the point where it was like a $49 stick

00:35:11   of gum thing, right?

00:35:12   I don't think the watch is ever going to go down that far, but like the phone started

00:35:16   as a singular product and diversified and kept the old models around and did stuff like

00:35:20   that.

00:35:21   And now that they're upgrading the old models, we'll get to that in the phone thing, that's

00:35:23   also a viable strategy.

00:35:24   But I totally see it like, I mean, this is the first design of the watch, right?

00:35:27   Wait for the second or third design, it should start to diversify such that they are selling

00:35:32   something that is more or less a direct competitor with the Fitbits at that point. Like Fitbit

00:35:39   is pretty safe for now, hanging out with its little rubbery bands with the little turds

00:35:43   inside them with a tiny LED display, right? But Apple will come for them eventually. Like

00:35:47   Apple will not leave that market. But for now, Apple is content to... Like you were

00:35:52   saying that the one you saw the most is the Apple Watch, as in the stainless steel one?

00:35:55   Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I've seen a very small number of stainless steel ones ever in real

00:36:00   life outside of WWDC. No, I would say by far the ones I saw the most were the sport ones,

00:36:06   by a mile.

00:36:07   But like, the Apple Watch is still a bauble for people who shop in the Apple Store. Like,

00:36:12   it assumes you have money to burn on fancy gadgets and you're already buying expensive

00:36:16   crap at the Apple Store, buy some more expensive crap at the Apple Store, right? But iPod started

00:36:21   out that way too. Do you have $500 to spend on a deck of cards at some music doohickey?

00:36:27   Eventually they were selling those things at every increment of $50 from $50 up to several

00:36:33   hundred and I think the watch can get there because as the, here's the thing, the CPU

00:36:40   power and GPU power required to do a decent watch is within shooting distance in a generation

00:36:45   or two of being acceptable and that will just shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink.

00:36:50   And unlike a phone or something, you can make a watch, you know, if they work out this interface

00:36:56   you can make the watch pretty slim and pretty small as long as it's still watch size and still keep most of the functionality

00:37:01   So I think in several generations

00:37:04   They'll have no place to go but down market to start pressing these things down

00:37:08   I don't you know a hundred ninety nine dollar low-end Apple watch in a few years

00:37:12   No problem hundred and fifty dollar one in four years. No problem

00:37:15   And then where where is the room for your stupid rubbery band as Fitbit? There's no room left for you

00:37:19   So I hope they execute on that strategy because I think it's a viable one

00:37:23   but for now they seem mostly content to stay high-end.

00:37:27   Although, speaking of high-end, I was interested to see that you don't hear about the edition much anymore,

00:37:32   but they still have a product called Edition, and it's not gold anymore, it's ceramic,

00:37:36   which looks cool, but it sure as hell isn't 17 grand anymore.

00:37:39   Before we get to that, I wanted to just point something out about the other Apple Watches.

00:37:44   So if you go to their interactive gallery, and we'll put a link in the show notes,

00:37:49   the Edition isn't there, which I don't think it ever was, so that's not that terribly remarkable,

00:37:52   But I was fiddling around on this while you guys were talking, and if you start with the cases,

00:37:57   so you're picking effectively which watch to get,

00:37:59   it shows you all the different sizes and colors and whatnot, and as you go through them and pick one,

00:38:06   so if you take, for example, the 42 millimeter silver aluminum case, and then there's links at the bottom,

00:38:12   I'm looking on a desktop, you know, buy model, and then that's where you go to actually buy it.

00:38:15   What's interesting is it starts at

00:38:20   269 for the 38 millimeter or 299 for the 42 millimeter, but then as you scroll down

00:38:24   It's which series do you want?

00:38:26   299 for the series 1 or 399 for the series 2 and I find that interesting because there's no clear distinction

00:38:33   Like are you buying an iPhone 6 or you buy?

00:38:36   6s actually or are you buying an iPhone 7 like the in my recollection is that was always a fork in the road?

00:38:44   Whereas here it's just hey you want to get a 42 millimeter silver aluminum case Apple watch

00:38:49   What flavor do you want? Do you want series 1, series 2, you know, 38, 42?

00:38:54   Pick your poison. And that, to my recollection, is different than the way it used to be. And smart, because I think like you guys were saying,

00:39:01   even though this is pitched as a fitness device,

00:39:04   if you're not someone who's working out outside or working out in a swimming pool,

00:39:09   why would you need the series 2? Maybe you always work out on a treadmill, or maybe you

00:39:15   Never ever ever take this thing into any sort of water

00:39:19   Save yourself the money like Marco was saying get the series one. It's it's effectively just as good if those things are not your priority

00:39:26   I just thought that was cool. You lose the screens not as bright either. There are other actually that's true. That's true

00:39:31   I'd forgotten about that

00:39:33   But yeah, I just I think this is a very smart way of handling it now to come to the addition

00:39:38   I did not realize that the ceramic was the addition until Marco mentioned it earlier. I heard them talk about the ceramic

00:39:45   I didn't I didn't know that that was taking the moniker addition which apparently it is and so I'm sorry

00:39:50   I interrupted interrupted you before I believe it was Marco that was talking. So tell me Marco as a watch nerd

00:39:56   Why would I want a ceramic watch?

00:39:58   Ceramic is really shiny. It looks really cool in person. It is an extremely hard material. It is very

00:40:06   scratch and dent resistant

00:40:08   More so than almost anything else you could make a watch out of it's kind of like sapphire in that way

00:40:13   It's very high on the hardness scale,

00:40:16   and you basically can't scratch it or dent it easily.

00:40:21   However, it does shatter.

00:40:23   All this hardness, typically for strength,

00:40:26   you need to be able to take dents and flex.

00:40:29   So typically materials that are extremely hard

00:40:32   also have the problem of shattering

00:40:34   if they get enough of an impact.

00:40:36   So basically it would not be wise

00:40:39   to use it on the sport model,

00:40:41   and that's probably one of the reasons why they haven't.

00:40:43   Now the other reason they haven't is because ceramic,

00:40:46   for, you know, in the context of making watches out of it,

00:40:49   ceramic is still fairly expensive

00:40:52   and difficult to manufacture.

00:40:53   It's just, you know, it's not that it can't be done,

00:40:56   it just, it costs a lot to do it,

00:40:57   and it takes, you know, a little more specialized machining

00:41:01   and techniques and everything else.

00:41:02   So, typically you don't find a lot of low-end watches

00:41:05   made out of ceramic, it's just,

00:41:06   it's not worth the cost to do it.

00:41:09   this is exactly the kind of thing Apple should be doing.

00:41:11   Because Apple is really good at exactly that kind of problem

00:41:15   of mass producing things that most people

00:41:19   can't make very well or at all,

00:41:21   or to good quality or volume standards

00:41:24   because it takes incredible manufacturing expertise

00:41:27   or incredible investment up front in high end machines

00:41:30   or something like that.

00:41:31   Apple's very good at that.

00:41:33   So like in the previous Apple Watch,

00:41:35   They had the amazing DLC Space Black Steel Watch,

00:41:40   they still sell, thank God, because it's amazing.

00:41:42   The Space Black, which is what they call it,

00:41:45   the Space Black Watch, the coating on that

00:41:47   also is extremely hard and pretty much impossible

00:41:51   to scratch or show any damage for,

00:41:53   but because it is simply a coating on stainless steel,

00:41:56   that will not have a shattering problem.

00:41:57   So honestly, if you want a watch that's going

00:41:59   to look really good, no matter how much damage it takes,

00:42:02   get the Space Black Watch with the Link Bracelet.

00:42:04   Like that's the one to get.

00:42:06   But if you're gonna be doing high impact stuff,

00:42:11   get the aluminum one and just accept that you might

00:42:14   chip it or scratch it or scratch the screen

00:42:17   just because if you hit it hard enough

00:42:18   because that's better than shattering your whole watch.

00:42:20   The ceramic one is gonna be really nice.

00:42:24   I love that they have taken the edition

00:42:27   which was completely out of reach

00:42:29   for everybody who would buy an Apple Watch.

00:42:31   Regular watches, if you go buy a solid gold regular watch,

00:42:35   you're gonna spend over 10 grand, no question,

00:42:37   and probably over 20.

00:42:38   So that was not an unreasonable price

00:42:41   for a solid gold high-end watch.

00:42:43   But that's not really what people want

00:42:45   if they're buying a solid gold high-end watch.

00:42:47   They want a mechanical beauty piece

00:42:50   that's going to last decades or more.

00:42:52   They don't want a technology that's gonna perform

00:42:55   like an iPad One and be about as useful

00:42:57   as an iPad One in five years.

00:42:59   So anyway, this is a smarter way to go.

00:43:01   Bring the price way down,

00:43:03   the addition, so the new edition, the ceramic is 1300 bucks.

00:43:06   That's a great price point for this,

00:43:08   'cause it's like, that's roughly

00:43:10   what the high end link bracelet ones cost,

00:43:11   plus like a couple hundred,

00:43:12   and that's roughly what the Hermes ones cost.

00:43:15   So that's a great price point for this.

00:43:17   The one weird thing about it, I think,

00:43:19   is that if you go to any place that sells ceramic watches,

00:43:22   and you can't miss the ceramic watch case

00:43:24   because it is glowing and bright,

00:43:26   because ceramic, it's usually very highly polished,

00:43:28   and they usually have link bracelets too,

00:43:30   and so you see all these incredibly shiny white surfaces

00:43:34   next to all the incredibly shiny black ceramic surfaces.

00:43:38   And if I had to take a guess,

00:43:40   black ceramic watches are probably way more popular

00:43:43   than white ceramic watches, so I do wonder why now,

00:43:48   a day after Labor Day,

00:43:50   they've unveiled a white ceramic watch,

00:43:53   and not a black one in addition or instead.

00:43:56   - Johnny Ive has a lot of white pants.

00:43:58   (laughing)

00:44:00   - Maybe in California they can wear white all year round.

00:44:03   I don't know.

00:44:04   So yeah, that's a weird thing.

00:44:05   Maybe down the road we will get that.

00:44:09   You get the black one maybe at the spring refresh event

00:44:11   or something, who knows.

00:44:12   But that is kind of a weird omission,

00:44:15   to offer white ceramic in the edition

00:44:17   and not offer black ceramic

00:44:19   because black ceramic is very popular.

00:44:21   So we'll see about that.

00:44:23   The other thing about, you know,

00:44:24   there's the entire Hermes collection

00:44:25   and that's not entirely new,

00:44:27   because we've had that for a while,

00:44:29   but that too I think is interesting.

00:44:31   If you look at an actual Hermes watch

00:44:34   that's not an Apple watch,

00:44:35   they sell lots of watches themselves.

00:44:37   There's actually one that I really like a lot

00:44:39   called the Slim, oh God, the Slim de Hermes, de Hermes.

00:44:44   I'm so sorry to the entire nation of France.

00:44:46   It's a beautiful watch, it's $7,000,

00:44:49   and I don't think I wanna spend $7,000 on that watch

00:44:53   even though it's beautiful.

00:44:54   to get the Hermes name and an Hermes strap

00:44:58   on a nice looking watch for a thousand bucks

00:45:01   is actually a pretty good buy in the watch world.

00:45:04   And that is expensive compared to the Apple Watch,

00:45:08   well it used to be called the Apple Watch Sport,

00:45:10   but for people who want something nice

00:45:12   and are willing to spend a little bit more,

00:45:13   that's not that different.

00:45:14   That's within reach, right?

00:45:16   It's still a lot of money, but it's within reach.

00:45:18   So I think bringing the whole price ceiling down

00:45:21   from literally $15,000 down to like $1400, I think is really smart.

00:45:28   Yeah, I didn't realize until you just said that that the new ceramic edition is just

00:45:35   barely more than the super fancy Darth Vader setup of stainless steel with space black

00:45:43   and all that stuff. That's much, I mean, obviously $1300 or $1500 or whatever it is is a lot

00:45:49   less than 10 plus thousand but I didn't realize it is just a hop skip and a jump away from

00:45:54   from the more expensive regular ones that's that's impressive and I dig it.

00:45:59   I imagine Johnny Ive has a white ceramic link bracelet that he's wearing right now with

00:46:03   the ceramic watch edition.

00:46:05   I'm kind of I'm also surprised they don't have black and I'm also surprised there's

00:46:08   no ceramic link bracelet if that's even a thing that they do because it would just go

00:46:12   together so nicely but gotta leave room for the you know twice yearly updates and I could

00:46:17   totally see them making a black ceramic one of these. Yeah, I'm surprised there weren't

00:46:23   that many new straps. There was, I mean, maybe there were some new colors mixed in there,

00:46:27   but the only one I really noticed was the Nike one with the holes in it, which I thought

00:46:30   looked pretty cool. Like, that whole watch, the Nike...

00:46:32   Wait, hold on.

00:46:33   Oh, God. Oh, no.

00:46:34   I can't let that go.

00:46:35   Yeah, no.

00:46:36   You thought that looked good?

00:46:38   I mean, I wouldn't wear it on my wrist, but it doesn't look as cool as a sculpture, as

00:46:43   like a product shot.

00:46:44   No!

00:46:45   - It looks as cool as the iPhone 5C hole cases.

00:46:49   Remember those?

00:46:50   - No, it's cooler than that.

00:46:52   - I actually didn't think those were bad.

00:46:55   This is, I think it's the colors that drive me so crazy.

00:46:58   Like the look of it in and of itself,

00:47:00   like if it was just black, let's say, or just white,

00:47:02   I don't think the whole cutout,

00:47:04   the cross drill look is that bad.

00:47:07   But these god awful neon colors, oh no, thank you.

00:47:10   - It's Nike branded, it's branded within an inch of its life

00:47:12   Like the whole, you look at that,

00:47:13   you know that's Nike branded.

00:47:15   Like the whole thing, it's just the colors match

00:47:17   on the screen and on the thing and the whole Nike

00:47:19   with the font and everything, like that is a Nike sport.

00:47:23   Look at the stuff that they sell.

00:47:24   That is exactly on brand for them.

00:47:26   And I even give them credit for saying,

00:47:28   "You know what, we have holes in it."

00:47:29   And it's not just like we had to come up

00:47:31   with some way to add neon.

00:47:32   It's vaguely functional.

00:47:34   Like if it's gonna be a sport watch,

00:47:35   this one will certainly breathe more than one

00:47:37   that doesn't have holes

00:47:38   because the holes are pretty darn big.

00:47:39   So, you know, if you're already buying neon Nike running shoes and like headbands and

00:47:47   like all the other outfits and just spandex or whatever, like this fits right in with

00:47:51   that aesthetic.

00:47:52   You're not going to wear it to dinner at night because it's like a glowing green black thing

00:47:57   with this weird slanty font on it, but I think it is exactly on brand.

00:48:03   I mean, you have a million different kinds of watch.

00:48:05   I think it looks less ridiculous than that double cuff thing, that Hermes thing with

00:48:10   the…

00:48:11   I don't understand those.

00:48:13   The one that wraps around twice?

00:48:14   Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

00:48:15   That's weird.

00:48:16   The one that has two parallel straps?

00:48:18   Like alright, do we have some sort of…

00:48:20   Is this like some sort of disease where you're afraid that the watch is going to depart and

00:48:23   you need to just keep adding more and more straps?

00:48:25   Well, you'd put an 801 if that was the reason.

00:48:27   No, but that's like…

00:48:28   I'm looking at the picture of the one with the two buckles.

00:48:30   It's like, how many hands do you need to put this watch on?

00:48:33   Like, is this the only people with assistance

00:48:35   to help them get dressed?

00:48:36   - It's like a wrist corset.

00:48:38   - Yeah, oh my god.

00:48:40   - Eventually, people are gonna be lacing them up.

00:48:42   - Definitely a part of, even though I'm so into watches,

00:48:44   that's definitely a part of fashion

00:48:45   I do not understand at all.

00:48:47   - Goodness, all right.

00:48:48   So all in all, to summarize the watch,

00:48:51   I'm giving this two thumbs up.

00:48:53   I think this looks great.

00:48:54   A few people seemed perturbed

00:48:57   that this didn't include a cellular modem.

00:49:01   Maybe if and when that time comes, which presumably it will, maybe I'll think, "My goodness, I

00:49:07   want this, it's amazing."

00:49:08   But sitting here now, I don't think I really need or necessarily want a cellular modem

00:49:14   on my watch.

00:49:15   My watch is always within reach of my phone or within a Wi-Fi connection to my phone.

00:49:20   I'm not disappointed by that.

00:49:22   I think adding GPS is smart.

00:49:23   I think adding the battery to offset that new power-hungry GPS is smart.

00:49:28   I think this looks great and keeping the Series 1 around while giving it that shadow update

00:49:32   like you guys were talking about is smart.

00:49:34   I am all on board with this.

00:49:36   I don't think I'm going to get a new one.

00:49:39   I would like the GPS, but it's not do or die for me.

00:49:43   I would like the better water protection, but again, not do or die for me.

00:49:49   So I think I'm going to wait.

00:49:52   But man, if you're thinking about an Apple Watch, now's the time.

00:49:56   This is a great, great, great lineup.

00:49:57   - Yeah, I mean like the cellular modem,

00:49:59   that was never gonna happen this year.

00:50:01   I mean, if you look at the limitations of,

00:50:04   they have this very, you know, compared to a phone,

00:50:07   this very, very small enclosure here

00:50:10   that has to sell for a very low price point

00:50:12   and has to have very long battery life,

00:50:15   the limitations of what they can cram in there,

00:50:18   both space-wise and for power and heat concerns,

00:50:21   they can barely, just now, like a year and a half

00:50:24   after they launched the original watch,

00:50:26   they can now just barely get it performing well

00:50:30   to just do local stuff,

00:50:31   to just hit buttons and change screens.

00:50:34   They can barely achieve that now.

00:50:37   So the idea of throwing in a cellular modem

00:50:39   and having enough free space and power and budget

00:50:44   to have all that in there, I think it's just unrealistic.

00:50:48   That was never going to happen this year.

00:50:50   We're lucky we got GPS.

00:50:51   - Yeah, I agree.

00:50:52   But all in all, you're pleased with the Marco?

00:50:54   - Absolutely.

00:50:55   I still don't really think it's for me,

00:50:57   but if I decided to go back to being

00:50:59   an Apple Watch wearer every day,

00:51:01   I would absolutely get one of the new Series 2 models.

00:51:04   Probably the stainless steel like I had before,

00:51:07   'cause that's a good balance for me

00:51:09   of looks and budget and functionality.

00:51:13   But yeah, a solid, solid update,

00:51:15   and I think what remains to be seen

00:51:18   is how much faster the CPU is in reality.

00:51:22   That I think I'm looking forward

00:51:24   to people's reactions and reviews to see that in practice,

00:51:27   and to see if there's any other downsides,

00:51:29   like is the battery life substantially different or worse

00:51:32   under certain usage profiles or whatever else.

00:51:34   But it's probably gonna be really good.

00:51:36   So I would say if you are an Apple Watch user

00:51:38   and you wouldn't miss a few hundred dollars,

00:51:41   buy the new one.

00:51:42   (laughing)

00:51:43   - And we haven't mentioned,

00:51:44   and I don't wanna talk about it now

00:51:46   'cause I think we covered it relatively well

00:51:48   in the WWDC episode, but WatchOS 3 is great.

00:51:51   I think it's a little overblown right now how much more instant everything is, but I

00:51:56   think a lot of that is coming from me not having watchOS 3 built third-party apps.

00:52:02   But watchOS 3 is great and made my Apple Watch Series 0 feel a heck of a lot better.

00:52:09   And I really like the changes they've done to the way watchOS 3 works, or the changes

00:52:15   they've done between 2 and 3.

00:52:16   So all good things on the watch, but Jon, why don't you wrap it up for us?

00:52:20   Yeah, as someone who has stopped wearing his Apple watch, I still have fond feelings about

00:52:24   it.

00:52:25   I still look at it occasionally.

00:52:26   Once in a while, I wear it.

00:52:28   Mostly I stopped wearing it just because I'm not a watch person and this wasn't able to

00:52:31   get me over the hump.

00:52:32   But all that said, none of these new watches are making me want to buy them.

00:52:35   I'm still waiting to see the next generation to get it slimmed down to the actual big redesign.

00:52:43   But I think Marco hit the nail on the head earlier when he said the most important aspect

00:52:48   this watch design from the perspective of a technical person is that it is now 100%

00:52:53   completely safe to tell anyone just go into the store and buy an Apple Watch because none of them

00:52:57   are stinkers. I mean even if they had just done the hardware that would be true but the hardware

00:53:03   plus watchOS 3 I feel confident that anybody who is vaguely interested in going there and whichever

00:53:10   one you buy will be great and be aware like you know about the GPS because I think that is if they

00:53:14   had to pick one feature to add for that big battery they picked the right one because I know

00:53:17   I know a lot of people who, I mean, my wife included,

00:53:20   she has this giant clunky Garmin GPS watch

00:53:23   because if you're a runner

00:53:25   and you want to keep track of your runs,

00:53:26   you want to show me exactly where I ran,

00:53:28   like my exact route.

00:53:30   Like that's an important feature.

00:53:32   And to have to have your big clunky phone with you,

00:53:35   especially if it's a plus,

00:53:36   is difficult to try to find like a belt to strap it to

00:53:38   and then you're wearing your watch.

00:53:39   And so she ends up just wearing the Garmin GPS thing

00:53:41   because she can bring one thing with her.

00:53:43   These are both good products.

00:53:46   Series 1 and Series 2 are both good products.

00:53:49   The fatter watch, now that I know it's an only meter fatter,

00:53:51   reminds me a little bit of my beloved iPad 3.

00:53:54   - Yep.

00:53:55   - But you know, like, the ceramic, everything about it,

00:53:59   like this, I think is the right compromise

00:54:04   between new features, new technology and everything

00:54:06   while we wait for the big redesigned Apple Watch Series 3

00:54:10   or whatever they change it to.

00:54:12   So I'm not tempted to buy one,

00:54:14   but I am happy with the update.

00:54:15   The only thing I would say though is that

00:54:18   with the exception of the GPS,

00:54:19   which as you mentioned, that's no small thing

00:54:21   because as we've been talking about,

00:54:24   the Apple Watch has really found its market

00:54:26   in fitness tracking.

00:54:27   That's such a big part of it,

00:54:29   of why people buy it and why people use it.

00:54:31   So to add one big thing to help that market tremendously

00:54:36   is totally worth it and totally the right call.

00:54:38   But I will say though, other than GPS,

00:54:41   they didn't really address any of the reasons

00:54:43   why you wouldn't have wanted one before.

00:54:45   So basically, if you were already into the Apple Watch,

00:54:48   this is a great update.

00:54:49   If you didn't buy one before for a particular reason,

00:54:53   other than GPS, that reason probably still applies.

00:54:57   - One more thing on the watch before we leave.

00:54:58   I left out the most important reason for my life,

00:55:02   my personal life.

00:55:04   My wife, I assume, will be getting a new Apple Watch.

00:55:06   She does not have an Apple Watch.

00:55:08   She's thought about getting, she's seen mine,

00:55:10   she knows what it's like, she's thought about getting it,

00:55:12   but for a variety of reasons,

00:55:13   just never gotten over the hump for that. I mean, part of it is that she can't wear

00:55:18   it in all places at work, so she can wear a Fitbit everywhere at work, or most places

00:55:22   at work, but can't wear the Apple Watch, which is kind of a pain. But like I said, she does

00:55:25   run, she does use a big clunky Garmin GPS thing when she runs, she does have a Fitbit.

00:55:30   So she's got the Garmin, she's got the Fitbit, and she's got the iPhone. The thing that's

00:55:35   going to put her over the edge is Pokémon Go on the watch. That's what it's going to

00:55:39   Because she is still playing Pokemon go and it's really difficult with a success plus

00:55:44   like to just have that big phone out and the game makes you either have the phone out or have it in like

00:55:49   It's supposed to have like the sleep mode where you turn it upside down and the screen goes off and it never quite works

00:55:53   Right. It's a little bit buggy

00:55:54   but to be able to do like I now I know enough about the game when they're showing like oh you can incubate your

00:55:59   eggs and see how much time you have left and ba ba like I know what all those things are and I know that she

00:56:03   Does it with her giant phone out if she could just do it with the watch?

00:56:06   This is I almost guarantee that she's going to get an Apple watch and she'll claim it's not because of Pokemon go but it kind is

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00:57:58   Thank you very much.

00:57:59   (upbeat music)

00:58:03   We have not yet mentioned vastly improved diversity of the presentation crew on this presentation.

00:58:11   Yeah, from the start it was a lot, lot better.

00:58:15   I was disappointed in it.

00:58:17   God, I can never get her name pronounced right, but Bozema St. John, I believe, is it?

00:58:22   I was disappointed she wasn't there because she just killed it at WWDC.

00:58:27   But many, many, many more not white, not dude faces, which is a vast improvement I was really

00:58:34   happy to see.

00:58:35   Although Jason pointed out earlier, Jason Snell had pointed out earlier, that most of

00:58:41   that diversity was either in the photography that was shown by the white dudes or by third

00:58:48   parties that were coming on stage.

00:58:50   Some of it was Apple themselves, but a lot of it was the third parties, which is a bit

00:58:53   of a bummer.

00:58:54   But I'll take any improvement at all.

00:58:58   So that's a good step.

00:58:59   >> Yeah, basically, it's progress, but we're not done.

00:59:02   >> Yep, very well summarized.

00:59:04   >> And I think the new factor here is they're finding new ways to make progress.

00:59:08   Because again, it's Tim and Phil and what's his name on the watch?

00:59:14   Sorry, I can't remember.

00:59:15   There's a bunch of old white guys who are roughly the same age who are still in charge

00:59:17   of all these major projects, right?

00:59:19   So that isn't changing, and that's difficult to change on a dime.

00:59:22   you can change who's in the product photos easily. And it's amazing that it hadn't occurred

00:59:26   to them to lean on that more heavily in the past. Because they have. They've always done

00:59:30   a pretty good job on that. But they're like, you know what? If we can't do it in this other

00:59:33   area, if we can't fire fill and replace him, right? And we don't want to, we'll just lean

00:59:38   really hard in the other area that we can control. They're finding more levers to pull

00:59:43   to try to make an effort in this area. And it's good that they're not sort of deciding

00:59:47   that they're done and just coasting.

00:59:49   Yep, I was pleased to see that.

00:59:52   So iPhone 7.

00:59:54   Well, Phil came on stage.

00:59:57   This is Phil, I think, at his best.

00:59:59   Phil Schiller, just really happy, really enthusiastic.

01:00:04   And he said that he was going to go through 10 different points to describe the new iPhone

01:00:10   7.

01:00:11   And I think we're just going to go through them one by one.

01:00:14   The very first one, the refined was the word to use, design, which outside of colors basically

01:00:23   meant move the antenna up to the top and to the bottom, and otherwise it looks about the

01:00:32   same to my eye.

01:00:33   Yeah, I tweeted this was hanging a lantern on it.

01:00:36   It's the expression from like script writing where you have something that doesn't really

01:00:39   make sense in the plot of your movie, and the way you handle it is by having one of

01:00:42   characters in the movie say, "But this doesn't make sense! That shouldn't even be possible!"

01:00:46   And once they say that, the audience accepts, "Oh, if no one says that the audience is insulted,

01:00:51   like, you expect me to believe this, that's not how that works." But if someone in the

01:00:54   movie says, "But that's not possible! That shouldn't be happening!" It's like, "Yeah,

01:00:58   that's what I'm thinking too in the audience guy up on the screen, now I feel better about

01:01:01   it!" So this is the same design. We've talked about this before. It's not, they haven't

01:01:04   changed it. I think all the old cases fit too, like, is it exactly the same down to

01:01:08   the millimeter?

01:01:09   The cases won't fit because the camera openings are now totally different.

01:01:12   - Even on the 7?

01:01:13   - Yeah, it's a much bigger camera opening.

01:01:16   - Is it?

01:01:17   'Cause my, so the exterior dimensions all told,

01:01:20   leaving aside the camera bump,

01:01:22   the exterior dimensions are identical,

01:01:26   or if not identical, then so unbelievably fricking close

01:01:29   that I don't know how you can tell the difference.

01:01:32   But you make an interesting point, Marco,

01:01:34   that I hadn't considered,

01:01:35   that the camera bumps are different,

01:01:37   so that might, well, certainly on the 7, 7 Plus.

01:01:41   I mean, you don't have a hole for the headphone port coming,

01:01:43   so at the very least it would be weird

01:01:45   to put a six on there and have this hole

01:01:47   where there's nothing.

01:01:48   But at any rate, essentially the same design,

01:01:51   and they lead with that, with the new design,

01:01:53   and the Johnny Eye video is great because,

01:01:57   what is he gonna say about this?

01:01:58   Like he says all the things you would expect him to say,

01:02:00   like this is our third bite of this apple.

01:02:02   This is our third, you know,

01:02:02   it's the ultimate refinement of this design, right?

01:02:04   So this is a design they've had time to work on.

01:02:08   First one was a little bendy, second one was stiffer,

01:02:10   and now they're just like, the antenna lines,

01:02:12   they're just, you can imagine if they were forced

01:02:16   by some unseen, an alien to say,

01:02:19   "You have to keep doing this design forever,"

01:02:21   and just refining it,

01:02:22   Johnny Eye would just continue to find ways

01:02:23   to reduce moving parts and make it better

01:02:25   and just, you know, thinner and lighter.

01:02:27   But if you watch that video again,

01:02:29   the Johnny Eye video is available on Apple's website,

01:02:31   I think they call it the design video,

01:02:33   "Wait until the last line he says,"

01:02:35   which is, I forget the exact wording.

01:02:38   He basically recaps what he said at the beginning.

01:02:40   At the end, he says, this is the ultimate incarnation

01:02:44   or whatever, I'm paraphrasing,

01:02:45   I don't remember what he says, of this design.

01:02:47   And the way he says it,

01:02:48   he says this is the ultimate incarnation of this design.

01:02:51   Like he says it as if he's holding,

01:02:53   he's holding the iPhone 8 in his hand while he says it.

01:02:56   It's like, I can't believe they let that intonation go in.

01:02:58   They go listen to it again.

01:02:59   Marco will put a clip in right here

01:03:01   and we'll be able to hear how it is.

01:03:02   It's totally weird.

01:03:03   (upbeat music)

01:03:06   When complete, iPhone 7 is the most singular,

01:03:11   the most evolved representation of this design.

01:03:15   - But honestly, hanging a lantern on it

01:03:21   or lampshading it or whatever you wanna call it

01:03:24   for the new design, I think it worked on me.

01:03:26   You know why?

01:03:27   Like we knew about the jet black ahead of time

01:03:28   or you did if you were looking at rumor sites.

01:03:31   I really liked the jet black.

01:03:32   I think the product shots of this thing are amazing.

01:03:35   I've never been a hater of this design as much a marker with.

01:03:37   I think it is a perfectly cromulent design.

01:03:41   It is a rounded rectangle.

01:03:43   Shouldn't have been bendy, way too slippery.

01:03:46   But aesthetically speaking, the jet black one

01:03:49   is the first one of this design that I actually

01:03:51   could say that I've liked.

01:03:52   Not just tolerate it and say, yeah, it's fine, it's OK.

01:03:55   I think the jet black one looks freaking cool.

01:03:58   Can you tell me what cromulent means?

01:03:59   It's not in the Apple dictionary.

01:04:01   Just it would take too long.

01:04:03   - Except for the other show.

01:04:04   (laughing)

01:04:07   - So I agree with you that the Jet Black,

01:04:09   at least aesthetically, looks awesome.

01:04:12   I immediately thought to myself,

01:04:16   oh, I know what I'm getting,

01:04:17   I'm gonna be getting a Jet Black iPhone 7,

01:04:20   and then I thought other things,

01:04:21   which we'll talk about in a minute.

01:04:23   But what was interesting was I had noticed earlier today

01:04:27   that Apple basically comes out and all but says,

01:04:32   Well, the JetBlack one is probably going to get the

01:04:37   smithereens scratched out of it.

01:04:39   So it says on the page that you go to go ahead and buy it,

01:04:43   footnote number two.

01:04:44   "The high gloss finish of the JetBlack iPhone 7 is achieved

01:04:47   through a precision nine-step

01:04:48   anodization and polishing process.

01:04:51   Its surface is equally as hard as other

01:04:53   anodized Apple products.

01:04:54   However, its high shine may show fine

01:04:56   microabrasions with use.

01:04:58   If you are concerned about this, we suggest you use one of

01:05:00   many cases available to protect your iPhone.

01:05:04   Or just get the black one without the jet.

01:05:08   I think that's the most important aspect of this, aesthetically speaking, before we get

01:05:11   into how these things might feel, is that black is back.

01:05:13   I hate the white front of all iOS devices.

01:05:16   I think it's crazy to put an actual bright white physical device next to your screen.

01:05:21   It just makes your screen look dingy because your screen is never going to be as white

01:05:24   as a reflective white surface.

01:05:26   Black, black, use it in all your product shots.

01:05:28   It makes the surface look like one big giant featureless thing and the screen just comes out of it black everywhere black front black back

01:05:34   Everywhere black is back. I'm happy about that and I have two blacks. It's so awesome

01:05:38   They have not space black not space great

01:05:40   Just black and jet black and I agree that the I wish they call the piano black

01:05:44   But I agree that the shiny black one. I mean

01:05:47   Can you even look at it? Can you even take it out of the case?

01:05:50   Like it's like the guitar and spinal tap don't touch it. Don't even look at it

01:05:53   Like you can't touch that with your fingers like it's just you know

01:05:56   It's like the piano black and Marco's car right you have that friend and near a Tesla right mm-hmm though

01:06:01   You can't touch it. You can't breathe on it

01:06:04   You can't do anything with it

01:06:05   But boy does it look good in product shots and it takes a lot to get me excited about the same laws in shape

01:06:10   That's been here for three years, but they found a way to do it. Yeah visually visually. I think this looks unbelievably good, right?

01:06:18   So now do you think this thing is gonna squirt out of our hands like oh like one of those little

01:06:21   Inverted water balloon things you know what those are

01:06:24   - Well, so, what's interesting about this,

01:06:28   so Gruber was in the hands-on area

01:06:30   doing a couple of periscopes earlier today,

01:06:32   and he said that people were asking about the grippiness

01:06:37   of the two different blacks, and he said that,

01:06:39   and there was a couple people that backed this up

01:06:40   so it's not just him, that the jet black super shiny one

01:06:44   is almost tacky feeling, it is surprisingly grippier

01:06:48   than the regular steel or the regular aluminum ones

01:06:51   that we've had to date, and grippier

01:06:53   than the matte black one.

01:06:55   So this is gonna be interesting.

01:06:58   Basically, what do you choose here?

01:07:00   Do you choose something that looks better

01:07:03   in pristine conditions, but is probably gonna look worse

01:07:08   all times of day, every day in reality,

01:07:11   and after the first day you have it,

01:07:13   but is easier to hold?

01:07:14   Or do you go with the one that is slippery

01:07:17   and harder to hold, and you'll probably have

01:07:19   to have a case with it?

01:07:20   So to me, I'm kinda leaning towards glossy black,

01:07:23   jet black, just because I like having

01:07:26   the additional grip texture.

01:07:28   And if it's gonna look crappy on the back, oh well.

01:07:31   So I've been going caseless for the last few months.

01:07:36   I got the D brand skin that MKBHD told everybody about.

01:07:40   I got those 'cause they're like 12 bucks

01:07:42   for both my 6S and then I also have the 6 non-S plus

01:07:50   that I bought for testing back when the first Plus came out.

01:07:52   And I put it on both of those,

01:07:54   just a basic black vinyl skin basically.

01:07:57   And it really does improve the grip by a decent amount.

01:08:01   But this sounds like it might even be more than that.

01:08:04   And so if I can get a very grippy back,

01:08:06   like I wonder is it gonna be as grippy as the,

01:08:10   like the old plastic cases on the 5C and the 3G and 3GS?

01:08:14   'Cause that would be, like if it achieves

01:08:16   that level of grip, I don't care how it looks.

01:08:18   Like that would be amazing to hold

01:08:20   for a new potentially giant phone.

01:08:24   Because what you don't want with these big phones,

01:08:27   you don't want to need a case because cases add size.

01:08:31   So if your complaint is that the phone is too big

01:08:33   in your hand or pocket, the last thing you wanna do

01:08:35   is have to bulk it up just to add grip.

01:08:37   'Cause then you're making that problem even worse.

01:08:39   So ideally, the reason I switch back after about a year

01:08:43   and a half of using the leather case,

01:08:44   the reason I switch back to caseless with these vinyl things

01:08:47   is because I wanted a smaller pocket size,

01:08:49   like I wanted to minimize that, and it works great.

01:08:52   And then I have the full usefulness of the left side,

01:08:57   swipe, the pushing and the force touch

01:09:00   for all the edge gestures and everything,

01:09:02   which are a little bit harder using the leather case.

01:09:04   So ideally, caseless but grippy is the way to go.

01:09:09   So I am totally willing to get the fingerprint

01:09:13   and scratch magnet and accept that it will just

01:09:15   never look good as long as it works well in my hand.

01:09:19   Because when I'm using the phone,

01:09:20   I'm not looking at the back.

01:09:22   - Fair enough.

01:09:24   Also interesting, which was not mentioned

01:09:25   during the keynote, but now is probably

01:09:26   a pretty good time to say it,

01:09:28   Apple quietly reduced the price of Apple,

01:09:32   what is it, AppleCare screen replacements.

01:09:35   It used to be, I believe, $100, and now it's only $30,

01:09:39   which is probably going to be enough for me

01:09:43   to buy AppleCare for the first time ever, and potentially enough for me to go caseless

01:09:49   for the first time in quite a long time.

01:09:52   I think I started using cases with the 4S, I think that's right, and I've been in cases

01:10:00   of some flavor ever since.

01:10:02   If AppleCare, if you get two accidental replacements for 30 bucks a pop with AppleCare, which I

01:10:06   believe is the case, and I have yet to irreco—what, how do you pronounce that word?

01:10:12   Anyway, I've yet to really destroy an iPhone.

01:10:15   Not like that, but I know what you mean.

01:10:16   Yeah, yeah.

01:10:17   I've yet to properly destroy an iPhone, knock on wood.

01:10:20   I think I might go caseless and just get AppleCare for the first time and just take my chances

01:10:25   because that's not a bad deal to get a whole new screen replacement, assuming there's no

01:10:30   other damage to the phone.

01:10:32   I have bad news for you.

01:10:34   You have irrevocably destroyed your iPhone the second you get that screen replaced.

01:10:39   You can't, these are not repairable devices.

01:10:43   I'm sorry to tell you that, but once they open up to replace the screen and put it back

01:10:47   together, it's never the same.

01:10:49   Yeah, that's probably right.

01:10:50   That's basically right, yeah.

01:10:51   I don't know.

01:10:52   I mean, it's not that I'm saying I'm planning on dropping the thing, but for the first time

01:10:56   in a long time, caselists might be caseless.

01:10:59   Oh my God.

01:11:01   I'm so tempted to hit the bell, but I just can't.

01:11:03   I just can't do it, Margo.

01:11:04   Insert some terrible rim shot.

01:11:06   He deserves it.

01:11:09   wow

01:11:12   oh so what about the the shiny uh the jet black business uh it's kind of i'm not gonna say this

01:11:21   is the same as the ipod nano the scratch horrific ipod nano but this is aesthetics aside and

01:11:28   grippiness aside um this is the wrong material to make super shiny i still maintain that my favorite

01:11:35   and the best phone design, aesthetically speaking, as just an object that you hold in your hand

01:11:40   setting aside most other things about it, is the 4 and 4S, and the black ones, obviously.

01:11:46   The black 4 and 4S had a shiny black back to them, and that worked because it was glass,

01:11:52   which is incredibly scratch-resistant, unlike this surface, which apparently, if you sneeze

01:11:57   on it, it's gonna get scratched.

01:11:58   Even if you put a case on it, it's gonna get scratched, because in between the case and

01:12:02   And your shiny black back is going to be some tiny little piece of dust that's going to

01:12:05   leave microscopic scratches on it, right?

01:12:08   But speaking of $30 screen replacements, glass back, not a great idea because now you have

01:12:13   two sides that can shatter and people did.

01:12:16   So I'm assuming the 10th anniversary iPhone 8 complete edge-to-edge piece of glass, blah,

01:12:22   blah, blah.

01:12:23   That presentation should have parts of it that were omitted for this one.

01:12:27   that emphasize how much stronger the glass is and how much it resists shattering and instead bends

01:12:33   and how much stiffer the case is. Just all the damage aspects. They leaned on waterproofing and

01:12:40   dustproofing, which is great, and I'm glad they're advancing on those fronts, but dropability-wise,

01:12:45   this one is just as shattery as the other ones. And now, if you get the Jet Black one,

01:12:48   it's like the scratchiest thing that Apple has ever shipped, according to their own documentation

01:12:54   engineer except for the iPod nano. So I think if you just want it for grippiness, that's

01:13:00   fine. I think if you buy this and use it without a case or even if you use it with a case,

01:13:04   you have to embrace the idea that it's going to get scuffed up. And I don't know, maybe

01:13:06   it will look good when it's scuffed up or maybe like Marco, you shouldn't care. But

01:13:11   it's another one of those products that unfortunately you have to divorce the reality of Apple product

01:13:16   shots from the product that you're going to actually unwrap because they're mostly unrelated

01:13:20   to each other and just make your piece with what it's going to really be like to own it.

01:13:24   But that aesthetic, shiny black that maintains, the 4 and 4S did that.

01:13:30   Because you can make glass pretty hard and scratch proof.

01:13:34   So if you didn't drop it and shatter either side of it, like I go look at my wife's 4S

01:13:38   right now, it still looks pretty darn good.

01:13:41   It looks almost like it's new.

01:13:42   That was an incredibly good design.

01:13:44   If you're going to do glossy, you have to do it something that's scratch resistant,

01:13:47   otherwise you're just inviting trouble.

01:13:49   So Apple's inviting trouble with this jet black thing,

01:13:51   but it looks really cool.

01:13:53   - Well, yeah, it looks really cool in pictures and videos.

01:13:57   - Yeah, no one has ever touched it.

01:13:59   - Yeah, if you look also in Gruber's periscope,

01:14:02   I believe it was the second one in the hands-on area,

01:14:04   you can see the phone that was in the hands-on area,

01:14:07   at one point he does an angle shot,

01:14:09   and you can just see it's covered in fingerprints.

01:14:12   And that's from a few, and they had people,

01:14:16   The staffers who were there running the hands-on area,

01:14:20   people were saying that they would wipe them down

01:14:22   with polishing cloths between each person handling them

01:14:24   most of the time.

01:14:26   And this one was just like one that was lying down

01:14:27   flat on the table, which obviously was handled

01:14:29   by like two or three people, maybe at most.

01:14:31   And it was covered in fingerprints.

01:14:33   Basically, your phone, if you get the jet black,

01:14:38   will never look the way, like,

01:14:40   by the time you're unwrapping it and plugging it in

01:14:43   to sync everything over, if you do everything with iTunes,

01:14:44   like a smart person with backups,

01:14:47   because then you don't have to enter your password

01:14:49   all over again if you click the encrypt backups box.

01:14:51   Anyway, by the time you're done setting up your phone,

01:14:54   it's not gonna look like that anymore.

01:14:55   Like you won't even get a day with it looking like that.

01:14:57   - Yeah, you can't touch it.

01:14:58   You can't touch it, you can't expose it to the air,

01:15:00   or dust, or anything like, you just can't.

01:15:02   And here's the thing, the front of all of our phones

01:15:05   already looks gross.

01:15:06   Like we are exuding oil all the time.

01:15:08   Our little fleshy appendages are just gross,

01:15:11   and they're like constantly, like that's just the way it is.

01:15:13   If you touch things with your bare fingers,

01:15:15   they will be gross.

01:15:16   Look at the front of your phone right now, it is a mess.

01:15:19   It has to be, like the oleophobic coating on there

01:15:21   to make the oil spread, but there's no getting around it.

01:15:25   - Yeah, by the way, I was wondering,

01:15:26   did they put that coating on the JetBlueye?

01:15:28   'Cause they never mention it, so the answer's probably no.

01:15:30   But it seemed like it would have benefited

01:15:33   from the oleophobic coating.

01:15:35   - I don't know if that would have made it slippier,

01:15:36   but there's no hope.

01:15:39   The smudges, there's nothing anybody could do about it.

01:15:41   But I think, again, getting back to the 4 and 4S, they've smudged up and everything

01:15:45   too, but smudges can buff right out.

01:15:48   Scratches less so.

01:15:49   So if it is scratchy, then it's just going to look like a big scuffed up mess.

01:15:53   And it's like getting scratches in the clear coat of your car.

01:15:55   Eventually it just looks like a mess.

01:15:57   Whereas if your car was entirely made of glass, it wouldn't get scratches, but probably

01:16:01   not a great material choice for a car.

01:16:03   It's for many of the same reasons.

01:16:05   (laughs)

01:16:06   - Yeah, the other thing I would say about these colors is

01:16:09   the non-glossy black looks a little bit dated.

01:16:14   It reminds me of the iPhone 5, before the 5S,

01:16:18   when I had its own space black.

01:16:20   It just kinda looks like, okay,

01:16:23   you had a bunch of geeks pick some phone colors,

01:16:25   and of course they're gonna pick black.

01:16:26   - I like that it's actually black, though.

01:16:28   I'm sick of all these different grays.

01:16:30   Make it black.

01:16:31   - But see, now we have two blacks, though.

01:16:34   Do we really need two?

01:16:35   'Cause then if you look at the rest of the colors,

01:16:37   there's no more space grayish.

01:16:38   Now you basically have light silver, gold, and pink.

01:16:42   To me, the whole lineup,

01:16:45   with the exception of the glossy black one,

01:16:48   the colors look a little bit dated and stale to me.

01:16:50   They look a little bit overplayed now,

01:16:51   which is weird for a brand new high-profile device like this.

01:16:54   Like, is it just me?

01:16:56   Do those colors not look old to you?

01:16:59   - Those colors don't do anything for this design.

01:17:02   The reason I think the Jet Ball Black looks so good is that it accentuates the parts of

01:17:05   this design that are interesting, which is basically the rounded edges.

01:17:08   And the rounded edges just blend away into nothing if you have an entirely matte case

01:17:12   on it.

01:17:13   When you have something that is glossy or even something that is black that's more reflective,

01:17:15   it highlights the rounded edges and makes it look cool.

01:17:19   Or even just the little highlights around the little speaker openings.

01:17:21   If everything is matte, it's like, well there's a screen and then some amorphous blob back

01:17:26   there that's like silvery or goldy, and that's not doing this design any favors.

01:17:30   And you're right, they have repeated those colors for a long period of time, and they're

01:17:33   not particularly helping it, but I think most people use cases.

01:17:36   I think the black one is great, mostly because you get the black front with it and then just

01:17:39   throw it in a case.

01:17:40   And I don't even remember what color the back of my phone is.

01:17:42   I assume it's grayish something, but I don't see it because it's inside my case.

01:17:46   So I think it's appropriate.

01:17:49   What else could they do with it?

01:17:50   Could they make them really dark primary colors?

01:17:53   I think that would be unwise at this point.

01:17:55   It's best to just stick with colors.

01:17:58   They know the relative popularity of those colors, add one or two new things in the mix,

01:18:02   and interesting also that they're doing the Blackbook thing, $150 for black if you want

01:18:07   your MacBook in black.

01:18:09   Well, if you want the Jet Black one, you can't get the lower storage model.

01:18:13   You have to get the 128 or 256, so it's a clear signal that the Jet Black one is supposed

01:18:17   to be the fancy one.

01:18:18   They're kind of punishing you for your desires for a shiny phone by A, giving you a phone

01:18:22   that's never going to look like that, and B, making you pay more, which is totally in

01:18:25   the Apple tradition and everyone who buys the Jet Black one, including me, are going

01:18:28   to deserve it.

01:18:29   So, you are getting a Jet Black one?

01:18:32   I think so. I think I'm going to get one because I didn't know if there would be anything in

01:18:35   the 7 to convince me to upgrade because it says it's my year. I have a 6. Mostly I was

01:18:39   convinced by the things we haven't talked about yet, but the Jet Black didn't hurt.

01:18:44   Fair enough.

01:18:46   You are the perfect person to have a Jet Black because you are always slightly dissatisfied

01:18:51   about everything and you will always be slightly dissatisfied with the condition of your jet

01:18:56   black finish.

01:18:57   I don't know if I think I'll probably still get a case for it.

01:18:59   I'm generally dissatisfied with the state of my leather case.

01:19:02   I don't know what's happened to it but it's starting to get like all rumply and pimply.

01:19:05   So my leather case was awesome up until maybe three months ago and then it started to get

01:19:10   rumply and now I'm like maybe I should get a black silicone case next time.

01:19:12   But I have to hold it in person to see what it's like, how slippery it is because I would

01:19:16   not use my 6 without a case ever.

01:19:19   I don't think I would use a 6S without a case either.

01:19:21   I'll have to try this one out to see how it is.

01:19:24   I am really torn because I really like the look of the Jet Black, but I think even in

01:19:30   a case I'm going to know that that thing's getting scratched crap, and I actually think

01:19:37   the Black Black looks really darn good as well.

01:19:40   I completely echo what Jon is saying, that to me, anything other than a black iPhone

01:19:44   is kind of silly.

01:19:46   Like, it would be one thing, I would actually really consider the silver phone if it had

01:19:50   a black front, but these white faces just, oh no thank you.

01:19:54   If there was a silver and black, I'd probably pull the trigger on that one, but since there's

01:19:58   not, I think I'm going to go regular black, and I think I'm going to go 128, I don't think

01:20:06   I need to go 256, and we'll talk more about that later.

01:20:09   Marco, what are you planning on doing?

01:20:11   So I'm going jet black for the grip,

01:20:15   even though I know it's gonna look bad.

01:20:16   It's like I'm tempted to take a piece of sandpaper

01:20:18   to the back the very first day I have it

01:20:19   and just give it a smooth coating.

01:20:21   Just to be like, give me a nice matte finish here

01:20:24   that's still grippy.

01:20:26   - The soft matte.

01:20:28   - Then it'll get slippery again.

01:20:30   I think it won't be grippy anymore.

01:20:31   I think part of the gripperiness is the shiny.

01:20:33   It's kind of like the plastic back of the 5C.

01:20:35   I think that's, so don't do that.

01:20:36   It'll happen naturally on its own.

01:20:38   - All right.

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01:21:44   (upbeat music)

01:21:47   - So next on the list of 10, water and dust resistant,

01:21:51   which is one of the things that was spilled

01:21:53   by Apple's own tweets earlier in the presentation.

01:21:57   So I don't have the term handy,

01:21:59   but now it is meeting like IP67,

01:22:03   something along those lines,

01:22:05   that means that, if I remember correctly,

01:22:07   you can submerge it not very deep for up to a half an hour

01:22:12   and it should work just fine, which is excellent.

01:22:15   I'm really excited about that.

01:22:17   And that's an improvement for everyone.

01:22:22   - Yeah, I mean, you could tell a lot of the changes

01:22:26   they've made this year are to,

01:22:28   and we'll get to the other ones in a minute,

01:22:30   but a lot of the changes they've made this year

01:22:32   are to reduce the ways in which people's iPhones

01:22:35   can fail or get killed, basically.

01:22:38   Like reduce the number of moving parts,

01:22:40   of parts that can get crap stuck in them

01:22:42   or cables bent in them or whatever else.

01:22:44   And this is just one other way.

01:22:46   Like clearly Apple looks at its repair data

01:22:50   from the Genius Bar and warranty claims and everything.

01:22:52   Clearly they know like anything you can do

01:22:54   to keep dust and water, especially water, out,

01:22:57   you will do wonders in prolonging the lifetime

01:23:00   of these devices and making people happier

01:23:02   with them.

01:23:03   You know, I disagree with some of the reasons

01:23:05   they've chosen to remove things like the headphone jack,

01:23:07   but the result here is, you know, pretty good

01:23:10   that now I don't have to worry if I get my phone

01:23:12   really wet to the point where like,

01:23:14   as Phil showed on stage, like somebody falling in a pool

01:23:17   with a phone in their pocket, or like,

01:23:18   I think the more pedestrian, horrible version of this

01:23:22   is dropping your phone in the toilet,

01:23:24   but there's lots of ways people can inadvertently

01:23:27   submerge their phone briefly in water

01:23:29   that used to most likely kill it,

01:23:32   and now most of the time or all the time basically won't.

01:23:36   And that's great.

01:23:37   - I can't believe they didn't do the obvious demo.

01:23:40   I wonder if it does this in real life.

01:23:41   Remember in the watch thing where they're like,

01:23:42   "Oh, we sealed up all the openings."

01:23:44   So they did the same graphic for the phone.

01:23:45   We sealed up all the openings.

01:23:46   Now it's even more water resistant.

01:23:48   Now the phone is water resistant,

01:23:50   except for of course we couldn't seal up the speaker.

01:23:52   So our solution here is that when water gets in the speaker

01:23:54   after you end the workout,

01:23:55   we push the water out of the speaker.

01:23:57   Well, the one opening that they left

01:23:59   aside from the speaker is on the phone

01:24:01   that has been known to have problems

01:24:03   is the lightning connector.

01:24:04   So what they should have done is,

01:24:05   we recommend once a month

01:24:06   that you put your phone in the water

01:24:07   and then the Taptic Engine will eject the water

01:24:10   and all the scum that's gone in there.

01:24:11   (laughing)

01:24:12   So you don't, because you get the Genius Bar,

01:24:13   like that has to be one of the major reasons

01:24:15   people go to the Genius Bar,

01:24:16   oh, it's not charging anymore,

01:24:17   I can't get the connector all the way in,

01:24:19   it says this accessory is not made for this device,

01:24:22   all the different problems that basically boil down

01:24:24   to you have pocket lint in your lightning port,

01:24:27   let me pick it out with this pointy little tool.

01:24:28   - Yep.

01:24:29   - If it's water resistant,

01:24:30   And if the Taptic Engine is right behind it, this is like a self-cleaning type of thing

01:24:34   where it should be able to, it needs a medium so it'll probably get some water, but like

01:24:38   eject the content like every once in a while your phone just like sneezes and ejects all

01:24:43   the scum that's in there.

01:24:44   That would be amazing.

01:24:45   Watch for that in the next version of the iPhone.

01:24:51   They did it in the watch!

01:24:52   Anyway, that's what I was thinking.

01:24:54   Can you imagine Phil explaining this feature?

01:24:56   We call it "iPuke."

01:24:58   - Like, oh God, but that would be really useful

01:25:01   because people's phones, mine included,

01:25:03   they always fill up with crap.

01:25:04   Like, I have to take some kind of pointy prod tool,

01:25:07   or often just a paperclip, and scrape out

01:25:10   all the pocket links at a lightning center

01:25:11   maybe every three or four months.

01:25:13   - I have to tell you, I've still never had to do that,

01:25:15   but I know that I am an outlier.

01:25:17   - Of course. - Talking to all the other

01:25:18   people I know with this phone, including my own parents.

01:25:20   Everyone else seems to have to do this, but not me.

01:25:23   - Now, the chat room has given us

01:25:26   the real-time follow-up we needed.

01:25:28   It is IP67 and the phones should be able to survive immersion

01:25:32   in up to 3.2 feet of water, which is one meter,

01:25:36   for up to 30 minutes.

01:25:37   So basically don't go deeper than about a yard or a meter

01:25:41   and don't leave it there for very long

01:25:43   and you should be good to go.

01:25:44   And that's super awesome.

01:25:45   - Don't try to take like underwater pictures with it,

01:25:47   by the way, like that's what it comes down to.

01:25:49   Like if you drop it in the water, it'll be fine, right?

01:25:51   But don't like, I'm gonna take it swimming

01:25:53   and take movies underwater for an hour.

01:25:54   Nope, don't do that.

01:25:55   As the tipster puts it eloquently in the chat,

01:25:58   it can survive me.

01:26:00   - Wow. - Jerks.

01:26:01   When we were going through our list of 10,

01:26:04   I accidentally skipped number two.

01:26:07   Water and dust resistance was number three.

01:26:09   And coincidentally, one of the ways

01:26:11   that they got to water and dust resistance

01:26:13   was by swapping out the home button

01:26:15   and it isn't really a button anymore.

01:26:19   It's a, not piece of glass necessarily,

01:26:21   but it's kind of like the new track pads

01:26:23   that Marco is so in love with.

01:26:25   And now it's all just smoke and mirrors

01:26:28   and the taptic engine.

01:26:29   - Straight out of Dune, buttoning without moving.

01:26:32   A reference that you guys don't get.

01:26:35   That's fine.

01:26:36   Anyway, it doesn't move.

01:26:37   It's a button that doesn't move.

01:26:38   We have a bunch of buttons that don't move on our Macs.

01:26:40   We're totally used to buttons that don't move.

01:26:42   The screen is filled with buttons that don't move.

01:26:44   Now the home button doesn't move anymore,

01:26:47   but it's still got a little indentation,

01:26:49   so it's nice that you could find it.

01:26:51   Yeah.

01:26:52   We'll see how it is.

01:26:54   Like Marco's least favorite non-moving trackpad is the one on the smallest device, and I'm

01:26:58   assuming that's because on the really small MacBook One the Taptic Engine can't give

01:27:02   the bump that he needs to feel like he's pressing something.

01:27:05   I imagine that problem will also exist in the very tiny phone.

01:27:08   Well it's worse than that even.

01:27:10   I mean if you look at the impressions that the hands-on people have of it, they all basically

01:27:16   say, "It actually doesn't feel anything like the Force Touch trackpads, and it doesn't

01:27:20   feel button-like at all."

01:27:23   - The opinions vary between the people who are there

01:27:26   about whether they like it or not,

01:27:28   but the overwhelming consensus is that it does not feel

01:27:32   like you're clicking a button at all.

01:27:33   - It doesn't fool you like the trackpad can fool you.

01:27:36   - No, the way they describe it sounds a lot more like

01:27:39   the Apple Watch's Taptic Engine, where like,

01:27:41   you push hard on something and it vibrates,

01:27:43   but it doesn't feel like you just clicked a button for real.

01:27:45   - Yeah, that's another thing I think I'll have to try

01:27:47   before I actually pull the trigger on the 7S.

01:27:50   I'm not gonna pre-order one, I'm not gonna order one

01:27:52   I don't see and I'm gonna wait, you know same stuff

01:27:54   I really do let people get the crappy first batch that has all the problems and go into the Apple Store and try it

01:27:59   I think no matter how bad it is

01:28:01   I'll get over it because again, honestly the the current home button on my six that goes in and out

01:28:06   I'm not a super big fan of that one

01:28:08   It's sometimes it bothers me, especially when using my iPad my new iPad Pro frequently

01:28:13   Especially with stupid iOS 10 with the little press the button to unlock. I don't want to press the button

01:28:18   I just want to unlock like it used to anyway, I'm gonna I'll get used to it

01:28:21   But pressing in, especially when I've got it on my lap, on my bed or something, I like

01:28:26   being able to sort of graze my fingers across the surface of the screen, except when I realize,

01:28:32   "Oh, I want to go back to the home screen."

01:28:33   Then I have to actually press really hard on the thing.

01:28:36   Now, Force Touch probably doesn't get rid of that hard pressing, but maybe it'll feel

01:28:41   better that nothing moves in.

01:28:42   I don't know.

01:28:43   I totally defer to everyone in the hands-on area, and the fact that it's been split at

01:28:47   this point probably means that this is not a slam-dunk home run, but I might not be bothered

01:28:52   by it.

01:28:53   But as with so many things, as we'll get to later, this just feels like an inevitability

01:28:58   where Apple gave all the examples.

01:29:02   We remove moving parts from our products because overall it's better for reliability and you'll

01:29:07   get used to it.

01:29:08   And I think all that is true.

01:29:09   Isn't the tapping engine a moving part that dies constantly?

01:29:12   But it's inside the thing.

01:29:14   Like it's not, you don't get the, it's a sealed unit.

01:29:16   Like it's not, is it not a moving part that you get to move, we move it.

01:29:19   - See this is like, I really, we'll get to this more, I really fundamentally disagree

01:29:25   with the justification that this is the inevitable future, of course we're moving to get rid

01:29:30   of all this stuff.

01:29:31   Really?

01:29:32   Is that really inevitable?

01:29:33   Like I think in a lot of these cases that's not really a valid argument or that's not

01:29:37   a complete argument.

01:29:39   - I don't know, I don't know if you've ever heard this podcast, Marco, called Hypercritical,

01:29:44   this guy who hosted it used to talk about the naked robotic core of different devices,

01:29:49   and I would say we're moving closer and closer to that.

01:29:52   Well, we have volume buttons, we have the silent button—

01:29:55   I was thinking of the volume buttons, right. Why do the volume buttons still move? And

01:29:58   when I was thinking about why the volume—and the power button—why do the volume buttons

01:30:01   and the power buttons still move? When I was thinking about that, I was thinking of my

01:30:04   very weird, rumply and pimply leather case from my iPhone 6, which, by the way, someone

01:30:08   in the chat room tells me that the 6S cases are actually manufactured differently, supposedly,

01:30:12   I assume better, but anyway, when I use my iPhone 6 in the leather case and I operate

01:30:19   the volume controls and the power button through this rumply leather case, they might as well

01:30:24   not move.

01:30:25   I can't even tell that they're moving.

01:30:26   I essentially just apply pressure to the bulges that are on the outside of the case and I'm

01:30:31   pretty much fine with applying pressure to the bulges.

01:30:34   I can't really feel them move underneath my fingers, but I don't have to apply that much

01:30:38   pressure.

01:30:39   made the volume buttons and the power buttons not move but feel the same as they do on my

01:30:45   leather case, I think I would be fine with that too. So maybe I'm going to be in the

01:30:48   camp that doesn't mind it, but the inevitability is just like moving parts break and get crap

01:30:55   wedged in them and are bad for waterproofing and it's not, you get used to not having them.

01:31:00   Like it's possible to make a good physical user interface with something that doesn't

01:31:05   move or doesn't move that much. As we've seen, like the the force track pads, they do flex,

01:31:10   they don't move, they don't go up and down, but they do actually flex if you were to look at with

01:31:14   a microscope, they do actually bend and flex. Maybe if they gave the home button a little bit

01:31:19   of give, again I think we talked about this when we were talking about the force track pad of the

01:31:22   F16, the control stick that doesn't move that much, it moves a little bit, they originally,

01:31:29   I think we went through this in this follow-up, but we're just gonna repeat the same freaking

01:31:32   follow-up. Like the control stick, normally when you play a control stick

01:31:35   like in a flight simulator game or an airplane you move it up down left and

01:31:38   right. Well in the f-16 the flight stick is not in between your legs but it's to

01:31:43   the side and I think they originally made it so it didn't move at all but it

01:31:47   was totally weird for for like pilots to just apply pressure and not have it move

01:31:51   so then they made it move a little bit but in general it doesn't move as much

01:31:54   so you're mostly just applying pressure. I think that kind of happy medium can

01:31:58   make for a really good efficient user interface maybe they just haven't struck

01:32:01   the right balance here, and when they come out with the 8, they will enhance it.

01:32:06   The worst case scenario is the rumor at 8 that they keep mocking up, which is actually

01:32:11   no button.

01:32:12   It's just a completely smooth surface, you can't even feel where it is, and it gives

01:32:16   as much as the screen gives.

01:32:17   And again, we all use buttons that don't give at all on the screen all the time, and we're

01:32:21   fine with it, but the home button is like the last bastion of like, I can pull the thing

01:32:24   out of my pocket and feel around to unlock the phone, and I think they can't really give

01:32:28   that up.

01:32:29   Yeah, I'm curious to see how it feels. Very, very curious. I feel like every

01:32:33   Apple device that I've owned that has a home button, over the year to two years that I use it,

01:32:41   the home button just feels less and less crisp over time.

01:32:44   Even though they've always worked, like I've never had a catastrophic failure of my home button,

01:32:49   it just feels kind of gross after a long time. And if this prevents that because nothing is actually moving,

01:32:57   I'm all for it. I mean, I'm a little worried based on the reviews like Marco was talking about, but in principle

01:33:03   Sounds good to me. Also real-time follow-up IP67

01:33:07   turns out that actually

01:33:09   IP is ingress protection and then the 6 and 7 are

01:33:13   How much dust protection you can get from 0 to 6, 6 being the most, and how much liquid protection you have

01:33:21   between 0 and

01:33:23   9k

01:33:25   Where six I'm sorry seven is the immersion up to one meter in depth the two remaining options are immersion

01:33:31   One meter or more depth and 9k is powerful high-temperature water jets

01:33:37   So I guess if you wanted to bring it like a hot tub or something like that

01:33:40   Which I did not know I thought that was kind of cool

01:33:42   Anything else on home button design water dust resistance anything before the camera

01:33:48   It all remains to be seen in practice

01:33:51   Yeah, very much so but I mean so far this is sounding really good

01:33:55   I mean these are these are incremental updates, but but I dig it. I'm looking forward to it

01:34:00   All right captain negative. I I just I really don't like force tucks. That's it like I

01:34:05   Everyone says this one's different from other ones

01:34:07   So hey, maybe I could like this one a lot because it's not like the other ones who knows we'll see

01:34:11   I don't know

01:34:12   I really think that if you weren't told that you were trying a force touch

01:34:17   Trackpad for the first time now you've been ruined for life

01:34:20   But for the first time if you tried it on a MacBook Pro and not a MacBook and you weren't told beforehand

01:34:26   I really think you would never be able to know the difference especially if it was cranked up to maximum

01:34:32   Touchiness, I don't know what but maximum intensity

01:34:35   I really don't think you could tell but now you it's like you've seen the arrow in the FedEx logo and you are forever ruined. I

01:34:42   Don't know. Anyway, so let's talk cameras

01:34:46   First, and most importantly to me, as someone who does not think he's going plus-club, optical

01:34:53   image stabilization on the iPhone 7.

01:34:55   Two thumbs up for that.

01:34:57   F1.8 aperture, instead of, I think it was 2.2 before, is that right?

01:35:03   I believe that's what Dan Sturm had said to me on Twitter.

01:35:07   So a little bit wider aperture, which is really kind of exciting.

01:35:12   The lens that I have for my Micro Four Thirds camera

01:35:14   that I spent several hundred dollars on,

01:35:17   I think can go to maybe 1.4, and we're talking 1.8 here.

01:35:21   Like I don't know, I don't know like you guys do.

01:35:24   - There is a very important distinction here though,

01:35:26   and that is that the pairing of aperture to sensor size

01:35:31   is the relevant part here.

01:35:34   As you make the sensor smaller,

01:35:36   the aperture equivalent goes up.

01:35:39   So like an F1.8 aperture at the little tiny iPhone sensor

01:35:44   size might have like the background blur capabilities

01:35:48   of like an F4 or F5.6 lens on your size sensor.

01:35:52   I don't know the exact ratio for these two,

01:35:55   but it's like, and then like when you, you know,

01:35:57   if you have an F1.8 lens on your sensor

01:36:01   versus an F1.8 lens on a full frame sensor,

01:36:03   the full frame one will have more background blur

01:36:06   capable based on, yeah, there's all these like ratios

01:36:09   and everything because of the optics,

01:36:10   but basically the F1.8 is nice to have,

01:36:15   you know, just for the amount of light it's letting in,

01:36:17   but for background blur purposes,

01:36:19   it is not comparable to the numbers you get from yours.

01:36:22   - Oh, I did not know that.

01:36:23   Well, that's really interesting.

01:36:25   But still, I mean, it's fair to say it's an improvement,

01:36:27   right, I mean, it's certainly not a bad thing.

01:36:29   - Oh, it's great, yeah, I mean,

01:36:30   the important thing is what Phil said on stage,

01:36:33   50% more light being let in,

01:36:35   and that is, you know, that means

01:36:37   that you can get faster shutter speeds

01:36:40   or you can get more light collected

01:36:42   before you start getting noise issues

01:36:44   and the pictures get all noisy.

01:36:46   So yeah, anytime you can increase the aperture

01:36:48   to get more light in while keeping what you want in focus,

01:36:52   that is always a good thing for the quality of your photos.

01:36:56   - They didn't say anything about sensor size.

01:36:58   Is this bigger than the previous sensors?

01:37:00   - I don't know if they changed it or mentioned it.

01:37:03   I did see that it was backside illuminated,

01:37:07   But I forget whether the 6S was also.

01:37:10   - No, that's been around for a while.

01:37:11   - That's what I thought, yeah.

01:37:12   - That's where the rubber meets the road.

01:37:13   Like they say a lot of stuff about the lens

01:37:14   and the image stabilization,

01:37:15   but the bottom line is how big is your sensor,

01:37:16   and how big is the sensor,

01:37:18   and how sensitive is it to light?

01:37:19   And Apple has at various times touted both of those.

01:37:22   Like, oh, we don't have as many pixels,

01:37:24   but the pixels we have gather more light each

01:37:25   so you can get better at the light photography, right?

01:37:27   Or we made the sensor bigger,

01:37:29   so now it gathers more light,

01:37:30   and now they're making the aperture bigger.

01:37:31   Like, you just, you gotta get as much light in as you can,

01:37:34   and you have to be able to collect as much of that light on the largest area.

01:37:39   To get the ideal would be the entire back of the phone is a giant sensor, but that's

01:37:43   fantasy tech that doesn't exist at this point.

01:37:45   Or even something like that, what, the Litro thing where you have like a thousand little

01:37:48   cameras collecting the light field and doing all the crap.

01:37:51   Like we said on the shows, we were talking about my big fancy camera.

01:37:55   There are environments, primarily indoors or at night or whatever, where you're never

01:37:59   going to get a good shot with an iPhone with its tiny, tiny sensor with the current technology

01:38:05   of light gathering. And so that's why these big cameras, for most people's lives, take

01:38:09   a lot of pictures indoors, and they're going to be dotty, or they're going to be blurry,

01:38:13   and they're going to be noisy, and there's nothing you can do about it. And if you look

01:38:17   at anyone's social media feed, people take tons of pictures with their phones in dark

01:38:23   environments and they look terrible. Eventually they will not look terrible.

01:38:29   Every little advance, every extra bit of light we're able to claw out of

01:38:33   the environment and gather on a sensor means we're getting better and so Apple

01:38:37   continues to claw up that slope and we'll get to the whole you know dual

01:38:43   camera angle they're trying to pitch here but as far as the 7 is concerned I

01:38:47   think this is a significant advancement of the camera but in the grand scheme of

01:38:52   things, sort of like it's one of their good years,

01:38:55   but it's not a gigantic advancement.

01:38:59   It is just like one of their good bumps to the camera.

01:39:02   For the single camera I'm talking about only.

01:39:03   - I mean this is, again, this is one of those things

01:39:05   that we're gonna have to see in reviews and in practice

01:39:07   how it actually turns out, 'cause like, you know,

01:39:09   they'll say whatever they want on stage,

01:39:11   and you know, every iPhone has the best camera

01:39:14   we've ever put into an iPhone.

01:39:15   You know, like so, that's, you know,

01:39:17   of course it got better.

01:39:18   We won't know how much better for, you know,

01:39:20   until we get these things.

01:39:22   but it sure did sound like it was a good year for it.

01:39:26   So, I mean, even with the single camera model,

01:39:29   without going into the giant one yet,

01:39:31   it sure does seem like it's a good year for it.

01:39:33   I mean, that is a pretty notable aperture improvement.

01:39:36   That is a substantial lens optics count

01:39:41   of having the six elements and everything.

01:39:45   It sounds good, and the optical image stabilization is good.

01:39:49   So, we'll see how this turns out,

01:39:50   but it's probably a pretty good upgrade year,

01:39:53   even for the regular 7 non-plus.

01:39:56   - Yeah, this is one of the factors in me wanting to upgrade,

01:39:58   because remember I have a 6, not a 6S,

01:39:59   so this is a huge leap over the 6,

01:40:01   and as I do find myself taking a lot of pictures of my 6,

01:40:05   because the camera is not that terrible,

01:40:07   I would love to be able to take pictures

01:40:09   in slightly more challenging environments,

01:40:10   so this, if you have a 6,

01:40:12   this is definitely a reason to get this phone,

01:40:14   just your pictures will come out much better,

01:40:16   because a two-year advancement is big.

01:40:17   If you have a 6S, I don't know.

01:40:20   I think someone's gonna have to do a comparison test

01:40:22   and show me the practical realities

01:40:25   of single camera seven versus single camera 6S,

01:40:27   especially the 6S Plus, which is my wife's phone.

01:40:30   I'm not sure how big of a jump that's gonna be,

01:40:32   but they're making progress.

01:40:33   They're doing all the right things,

01:40:34   other than the bulge is still there,

01:40:37   but I think they've just given up on that now.

01:40:39   - Also notable is the inclusion

01:40:41   of the wide color gamut photo shooting,

01:40:44   which that is something that is very hard to find

01:40:47   and do well in other cameras.

01:40:49   Like, you know, they exist sometimes,

01:40:51   or they have different color profiles they can use,

01:40:54   but dealing with that is kind of a pain in the butt.

01:40:56   And so to have this be built in,

01:40:58   and just all your photos shot on the iPhone

01:41:01   are just gonna have wide gamut support,

01:41:02   and you're gonna view them on the iPhone,

01:41:04   which itself also has wide gamut support on its display,

01:41:06   and it'll just work.

01:41:07   Like, that's awesome.

01:41:08   And that is not an easy thing to do,

01:41:09   and that's pretty good.

01:41:10   The other thing to mention

01:41:11   with the both camera capabilities thing is RAW shooting.

01:41:15   This is, I really am gonna be interested

01:41:18   to see how this turns out.

01:41:20   The idea here is like, you know,

01:41:22   for basically a very quick overview,

01:41:24   most photos you get out of most cameras are JPEGs.

01:41:26   The camera has done some processing

01:41:28   to interpret the raw sensor data from the sensor

01:41:32   to apply things like normalizing colors

01:41:35   and white balance and sharpening,

01:41:37   usually more sharpening and contrast boosting

01:41:39   than you might realize,

01:41:41   basically to try to make every photo look good

01:41:44   and to apply slight processing.

01:41:46   If there's flaws in the lens,

01:41:48   the lens has like slight barrel distortion

01:41:51   or slight vignetting where the corners don't capture

01:41:53   quite as much light as the middle or things like that,

01:41:56   those will all be corrected in that same procedure

01:41:58   as you convert from the raw sensor data to the JPEG

01:42:01   that you then store into the person.

01:42:03   High-end cameras for a long time have offered the ability

01:42:06   to save raw files, which basically just skips

01:42:09   all that processing or defers it to later

01:42:12   and saves onto the flash card the actual raw sensor data,

01:42:16   which is massive, and then to view those

01:42:19   and process them requires your computer

01:42:21   or whatever else to do all that conversion

01:42:24   and generation and everything.

01:42:25   The advantage to that is that if you,

01:42:28   usually the advantage to that,

01:42:29   not only is like if you want to do less

01:42:33   messing with the original data

01:42:34   and you wanna do that in your own controlled way,

01:42:37   to do it either differently or to do less or more of it,

01:42:40   there's also other major advantages like

01:42:43   JPEGs have a certain limit of how much

01:42:47   dynamic range they can apply, or they can represent.

01:42:50   So like, what the difference is between

01:42:52   100% white and 100% black.

01:42:55   JPEG has, you know, just like a certain limit

01:42:57   of how much precision can be stored there,

01:42:58   so there's a limit of how much dynamic range

01:43:00   you can store in a JPEG.

01:43:01   Raw, it doesn't have any kind of inherent limit there,

01:43:04   it's basically whatever the sensor can represent.

01:43:06   So, if you have areas of the picture that are blown out,

01:43:10   that are bright white, and you wanna like,

01:43:11   pull some detail out of there,

01:43:13   or if you have areas that are just black

01:43:14   and there might be some detail there

01:43:16   in those shadows that you might wanna pull out,

01:43:18   you can do that much more effectively with raw files

01:43:21   because if that data was on the sensor at all,

01:43:24   it's still there and you can process that

01:43:25   and you can get a lot of detail out of that

01:43:28   way more than you can out of just processing a JPEG

01:43:30   'cause the JPEG already had all the

01:43:33   very, very fine granularity thrown away

01:43:36   in the processing step to make it from the sensor

01:43:38   to a JPEG in the first place.

01:43:40   Also, there's things like white balance on a raw

01:43:43   is a lossless operation.

01:43:44   So you can tweak the white balance and colors

01:43:46   as much as you want on a raw file

01:43:47   and it's not actually like destructively editing that

01:43:50   in any way and you don't lose anything by doing that.

01:43:52   So raw files are great for pro photographers.

01:43:54   They're a bit of a pain to work with.

01:43:56   They're really huge but they allow you a lot of flexibility.

01:43:59   Now a camera like this, you might think,

01:44:03   wow, this is gonna be great.

01:44:05   I can't wait to have that kind of flexibility

01:44:08   on my iPhone photos.

01:44:10   The problem though is that when you get to a very,

01:44:12   very tiny sensor like this with a very tiny lens

01:44:14   that sells for something like $40,

01:44:16   whatever the part is that the camera on the phone

01:44:19   is a very, very constrained camera in both size and cost.

01:44:24   So chances are the processing that the iPhone does

01:44:29   to make its JPEGs is really necessary

01:44:32   to make them look good.

01:44:34   Chances are that it's doing a lot of corrections

01:44:37   to things that you, like basically I question

01:44:41   whether there's any more quality to be had

01:44:44   from the RAWs on iOS, on iPhones.

01:44:47   Because Apple is really good at this kind of processing.

01:44:49   They're probably doing the best they reasonably can

01:44:52   with their own built-in processing.

01:44:54   So the idea of somebody else being able to tweak

01:44:57   more data from those RAW files, I think is possible,

01:45:00   but unlikely, and what it's more likely to be is

01:45:03   just larger, slower to process images

01:45:06   that don't have all the nice balancing

01:45:09   and contrast and sharpness and lens corrections

01:45:12   that the built-in ones will have.

01:45:13   So again, we'll see how that goes.

01:45:16   - I think there's a headroom there.

01:45:17   I think they hinted at it with showing the Lightroom demo,

01:45:20   is that if you really want to,

01:45:23   the way I think of the raw to JPEG thing

01:45:24   is that going from raw to JPEG is a lossy operation.

01:45:27   You have to pick an exposure level,

01:45:29   and if you pick an exposure level

01:45:30   where all these shadows are black

01:45:33   or all these highlights are blown out to white,

01:45:35   you're never gonna get any new information out of that.

01:45:36   Black is black and white is white.

01:45:39   Whereas if you still have the RAW,

01:45:40   and if you have it in a program like Lightroom,

01:45:42   you can pick a particular shadow area

01:45:45   and expose that differently to pull out detail

01:45:48   from the shadows over there.

01:45:49   But then in these highlights over here,

01:45:51   expose a different, like you can actually,

01:45:52   because the RAW sensor data is behind there,

01:45:55   treat different areas of the photo differently

01:45:56   based on the subject matter.

01:45:58   And you're right that you will have to reapply

01:46:01   all the stuff that Apple does,

01:46:02   particularly probably noise reduction

01:46:04   in anything that doesn't have really bright light

01:46:06   because it's gonna be noisy on the little sensor.

01:46:09   But I assume the ability to basically process the image

01:46:15   in more or less the same way Apple does it

01:46:17   will be available to third parties.

01:46:19   And then on top of that, it's all just like,

01:46:22   what do you want to do artistically speaking

01:46:24   to this particular photo?

01:46:25   So I think you will be able to pull out shadow detail

01:46:27   and highlight stuff if you're willing to put in the time

01:46:30   to treat different images of the area differently.

01:46:32   I think you're right that the compromise

01:46:34   for the entire image is probably,

01:46:35   Apple's probably doing the best you can imagine,

01:46:38   but the option makes sense,

01:46:42   and I think it opens up the market for applications,

01:46:47   more serious photography applications on the phones,

01:46:50   especially if, I mean, you didn't mention anything

01:46:52   about 4K 60 frames per second.

01:46:54   It's not there, video, right?

01:46:56   But so it will be in a few years,

01:46:57   and that will open it up for video apps and video editing

01:47:00   and stuff like that.

01:47:01   So anyway, I encourage anything

01:47:03   that gives these iOS devices more of a pro bent,

01:47:07   and I think this is a move in that direction.

01:47:09   Of course, it also means that you just fill up

01:47:11   your photo allocation even faster.

01:47:13   - Yeah, and the other thing too,

01:47:16   if Apple really works on this full stack,

01:47:18   which they probably should and probably will,

01:47:21   what this could also enable, depending on how well they do,

01:47:25   it is this could just enable the built-in editing controls

01:47:30   in the Photos app.

01:47:31   Like if you can, if there's a setting somewhere

01:47:33   that says like always shoot in RAW or something like that,

01:47:36   if you can get that in the Photos app,

01:47:38   then the Photos app could itself keep doing

01:47:41   over and over again all the cool Apple processing stuff

01:47:44   as you adjust the various sliders and things

01:47:47   to edit the RAW.

01:47:48   So if you have, as you said, if you have a different opinion

01:47:50   of what the highlights and shadows should be

01:47:52   and what the white balance should be,

01:47:54   you can have all that being done non-destructively

01:47:56   on the RAW and still have all that processing done

01:47:59   on the way out to view it, to display and to disk.

01:48:03   - It's not quite that simple though,

01:48:04   'cause Rene Ritchie had tweeted earlier,

01:48:05   presumably because he was briefed by Apple,

01:48:07   the camera app shoots JPEG.

01:48:09   Only third-party apps can do RAW.

01:48:12   - That's right.

01:48:13   Well, hopefully in the future that might be a setting.

01:48:16   - Yeah, the setting is called

01:48:18   Fill My Phone Five Times Faster.

01:48:21   - Well, look, they have a setting for video quality.

01:48:24   By default, the iPhone 6S could shoot 4K

01:48:26   and does a pretty good job of it,

01:48:27   but that's not on by default.

01:48:29   By default, it's 1080p, I think, might even be 1080p 30,

01:48:32   but it can also 1080p 60 and 4K 30.

01:48:36   And 4K is about a gig a minute at their bit rates.

01:48:40   So you figure they're selling a 16 gig phone

01:48:42   that can shoot a gig a minute worth of video,

01:48:44   that's kind of a problem.

01:48:46   So it's disabled by default, but it's still an option

01:48:48   for those of us who bought the 128, right?

01:48:50   So it's like, well, it's optional,

01:48:51   but it's more practical for people with the bigger phones.

01:48:55   This is the same kind of thing.

01:48:55   If they wanna sell these big phones, here's a reason,

01:48:58   here's a way that power users will want to buy

01:49:02   the bigger phone so they can do this.

01:49:05   So absolutely this is the kind of thing

01:49:07   that they hopefully will do in the future

01:49:09   because it seems weird to have that capability

01:49:11   and to only let third party apps use it

01:49:13   and to not do anything with your own built-in photos app

01:49:16   that everybody uses and that has lossless editing controls.

01:49:20   - I'll just add an SD card slot, don't worry.

01:49:22   - Yeah, that's it.

01:49:24   We should also talk about Phil's extra credit project,

01:49:27   which was depth of field adjustments and enhancements

01:49:31   by way of the magic of software

01:49:33   and these seven pluses two lens camera system

01:49:38   or two camera system.

01:49:40   - Before we get to the depth of field thing,

01:49:42   we just talk about the two cameras on their own merits

01:49:44   before the software update,

01:49:45   it's not even gonna be out when the phones are out, right?

01:49:47   So the two cameras by themselves is you have two choices.

01:49:50   You can take from this camera and from that camera

01:49:52   and one of them is zoomed in twice as much as the other,

01:49:55   which is nice.

01:49:56   It's pretty straightforward.

01:49:56   looking for maybe a little bit more magic,

01:49:58   which they kind of delivered on

01:49:59   in their extra credit assignment, but essentially.

01:50:02   - Well, there actually, there is some magic

01:50:04   in that it appears that you can zoom smoothly

01:50:07   between those two focal lengths as well.

01:50:09   - I think it was just tap from 1x to 2x

01:50:12   and slide from 2x to 10x,

01:50:14   but that's all software after that.

01:50:16   - That is how I heard it as well

01:50:18   is what John is describing,

01:50:19   that one to two is a jump,

01:50:20   and after two, it's a gradient.

01:50:24   - You might be right.

01:50:25   - I mean, they don't have,

01:50:26   They could do a smooth slide, they just go,

01:50:27   oh, here's the 1x image and I'll software scale

01:50:30   until you get to 1.999 and then I'll switch

01:50:32   to the other camera.

01:50:33   But the bottom line is you have two different cameras,

01:50:34   presumably both have equally high quality sensors,

01:50:37   they're just one is telephoto as they said

01:50:40   and one of them is wide angle.

01:50:41   And that alone, even if that was the only feature they had,

01:50:44   is that you have two choices of two different cameras,

01:50:47   is nice because the default one is like wide angle

01:50:49   is you wanna take a picture of a group of friends

01:50:51   or whatever, but every once in a while,

01:50:53   you see this a lot with like parents trying

01:50:55   take pictures of kids at like assemblies or camp things or whatever and you know

01:50:59   they're so far away they're holding up their phone in the audience you know

01:51:02   their kid is going to be a speck because it's a wide-angle lens and they're

01:51:05   they're towards the middle or the back there's no way they're gonna even be able

01:51:08   to recognize their kids face if they had a 2x zoom on that they would go a long

01:51:11   way towards them be able to recognize where a little Timmy is in the picture

01:51:15   so that's a great idea and hey the the 7 plus is gigantic you have plenty room on

01:51:20   the back you've already got a wart there why not make it a double wart hell put

01:51:23   five cameras on there at five different zoom levels.

01:51:25   Like just keep adding cameras along the top of it

01:51:27   at different zoom levels.

01:51:29   This is a little bit barbaric.

01:51:31   It will be looked back on as like,

01:51:33   remember when we couldn't do the entire back

01:51:34   of the camera as a sensor?

01:51:36   And instead we just kept adding more cameras.

01:51:39   But for now I think it's a reasonable compromise.

01:51:42   And then what I was looking for after that is,

01:51:44   okay, you got the two cameras, that's good.

01:51:46   They are good for all the things they're good at.

01:51:49   What kind of magic can you do with these two cameras

01:51:52   when they work together.

01:51:54   And the magic is not shipping on release

01:51:56   and not that amazing,

01:51:59   especially in light of the light field cameras

01:52:01   and all that other stuff where they're like,

01:52:02   we just gather all the light

01:52:04   and do these amazing things in software.

01:52:06   Apple has less ambitious goals,

01:52:09   but I think the result will be a little bit better.

01:52:11   - So real-time follow-up,

01:52:12   Srendy Caldwell has said,

01:52:15   "You can absolutely pinch or really scroll

01:52:17   to zoom between each lens,

01:52:19   but the button allows you to be specific."

01:52:21   - Right, but like I said, I think all it's doing

01:52:22   is software zooming the one until it gets to actual two

01:52:25   and then it switches.

01:52:26   Like it would be fun to play with that and go like,

01:52:27   get it up to 1.99 and then switch to two

01:52:29   and watch it all of a sudden get clearer, you know,

01:52:31   'cause then it goes to the other lens.

01:52:32   - Well, just like put your finger over one of the lenses

01:52:34   and just like see when it switches.

01:52:36   - Yeah.

01:52:37   - Oh, that's an interesting point.

01:52:37   I didn't think of it that way.

01:52:38   That's funny.

01:52:39   - Yeah, no, I mean, so this is gonna be great.

01:52:42   Like this is one of the reasons why I'm most likely

01:52:44   getting the plus that I want this.

01:52:47   And like I love shooting photos with my iPhone.

01:52:51   and like many people do, I shoot tons of photos

01:52:53   with my iPhone, I shoot most of my photos with my iPhone,

01:52:55   to have there be finally like a new optic to it

01:52:59   that's built in, that's always there.

01:53:01   You know, you've always been able to get

01:53:02   little bolt-on lenses that you like slide on somehow

01:53:06   or that rest there, clip on or something,

01:53:07   and they're okay, but it's never as good

01:53:09   as having the built-in one that's always there.

01:53:11   So to have this additional lens on there

01:53:14   is gonna be great.

01:53:15   My only little nitpick, you know with me

01:53:17   there's always a nitpick, is that I do kind of wish

01:53:19   was a little bit more zoomed in.

01:53:22   So the regular lens that's always been there,

01:53:25   I had said a few episodes back that it was

01:53:26   a 35 millimeter equivalent most of the time.

01:53:28   That was wrong, it's actually a 28 millimeter equivalent

01:53:30   in most recent models.

01:53:32   And so the new one being twice that

01:53:35   is a 56 millimeter equivalent,

01:53:37   which I said in the presentation.

01:53:39   And that is, and so it's similar to a 50 millimeter lens

01:53:43   that many people have used, but only on full frame.

01:53:46   If you've used a 50 millimeter lens like on a Rebel

01:53:49   or like a smaller camera like it's not full frame,

01:53:51   it's actually more zoomed in

01:53:53   than what you're getting with the iPhone.

01:53:54   It's the iPhone, you know, that is really,

01:53:58   they kept calling it a telephoto,

01:53:59   but I don't know any photographer

01:54:01   who would describe a 56 millimeter lens

01:54:03   as a telephoto lens.

01:54:04   That is a medium lens or a normal lens.

01:54:07   The 28 that you normally get with it is a wide.

01:54:10   So anyway, they now have a wide and a normal.

01:54:14   I do wish they would have gone a little further,

01:54:16   maybe given like an 85 millimeter equivalent.

01:54:18   that would have been great,

01:54:20   because as you get a little further into that range,

01:54:23   it starts looking a lot nicer for portraits

01:54:25   and just pictures of people in general.

01:54:27   The more you get in there, the better it looks generally.

01:54:30   You have to take a couple steps back sometimes,

01:54:33   but it's usually worth it.

01:54:35   So hopefully they will move in that direction.

01:54:38   I mean, in my wildest dreams, heck, I had a third one.

01:54:41   As you were saying, Sean, you got camera one, camera two,

01:54:45   go below it, add a giant circle

01:54:47   and so as wide as both of those,

01:54:48   give me like a 135 there or something,

01:54:50   like that would be amazing.

01:54:52   Probably not gonna happen, but you know,

01:54:55   physics is kind of a problem here in a number of ways,

01:54:57   but to have something a little more zoomed in would be nice.

01:55:02   Also, the 56 millimeter lens, I believe,

01:55:06   it has a lower aperture than the wide ones.

01:55:08   I believe on the side it said it was an f/2.8,

01:55:11   so the zoomed in lens will be worse at low light situations,

01:55:17   And whether it can perform,

01:55:20   or whether it can produce genuine background blur,

01:55:23   which we'll get to in a minute,

01:55:25   is not gonna be as good as if it were F1.8,

01:55:30   but because it is more zoomed in,

01:55:32   basically the more zoomed in you are, focal length wise,

01:55:35   the more background blur you can tend to produce,

01:55:39   especially if your subject is fairly close to you.

01:55:42   So the formula for background blur usually is

01:55:46   subject very close to you,

01:55:48   and also using a very long lens,

01:55:49   like a very zoomed in lens.

01:55:51   That's how you get blur.

01:55:51   And you can actually get blur on today's iPhones.

01:55:54   On every iPhone, basically,

01:55:56   you can get some background blur

01:55:57   if you have something close up enough.

01:55:59   You gotta be pretty close,

01:56:00   'cause it's a pretty wide lens on a little phone sensor,

01:56:02   but if you put something really close to your iPhone,

01:56:05   you will get a blurred background

01:56:07   if the background is far enough away from you.

01:56:09   So anyway, new dual lens camera thing,

01:56:12   just for the sake of photography, just basic photography,

01:56:15   that is awesome.

01:56:16   the ability to very quickly switch,

01:56:17   the fact that it isn't only a pinch zoom,

01:56:19   the fact that you can just hit that little button

01:56:20   and it toggles to 2x, that is awesome,

01:56:23   and I will probably use that a lot.

01:56:26   - So you're going plus club?

01:56:27   - I think so, for that reason alone.

01:56:30   The blur thing they show,

01:56:32   so let's talk about the blur thing.

01:56:33   You wanna intro that?

01:56:34   - Yeah, I certainly can, but before I do,

01:56:37   Jon, are you going plus club?

01:56:39   - No, come on.

01:56:40   (laughing)

01:56:42   - Yeah, so I went back and forth on this,

01:56:45   And I'm pretty sure, and we'll talk about why in a moment,

01:56:48   I am not going Plus Club either.

01:56:50   So before the presentation today,

01:56:56   there was a lot of debate, especially

01:56:57   because of the invitation that Apple had sent,

01:57:01   a lot of debate over whether or not

01:57:03   the Plus, with its supposed two-camera system that we now

01:57:07   know is real, if it would be able to provide

01:57:10   some really, really good bokeh.

01:57:12   And I think we've talked about this in the past.

01:57:13   But Boca is that background blur that Marco was just talking about.

01:57:16   So it's where you have—

01:57:17   Please email Casey.

01:57:18   Yeah, please email me.

01:57:20   So it typically—and I'm oversimplifying—but typically this is with a portrait, although

01:57:25   not necessarily always, where you have, you know, the person relatively close to you,

01:57:30   like Marco was just describing, and then the background is considerably more blurry.

01:57:35   You know, hopefully the person is not blurry at all, and the background is very blurry.

01:57:39   And people were saying beforehand that this 7+ will be able to give you legitimate, honest-to-goodness,

01:57:47   visual bokeh, or that background blur.

01:57:50   You can play those depth of field tricks.

01:57:53   Now Phil said he gave his engineers an extra credit problem.

01:57:57   And the extra credit problem was, "I want to see bokeh like you get out of a DSLR or

01:58:03   equivalent."

01:58:04   And that's one of the reasons I bought my Micro Four Thirds, was because I wanted to

01:58:08   be able to do the same sort of thing.

01:58:11   I want to be able to see that coming out of an iPhone.

01:58:14   And so, coming later this year, I believe they said, certainly later in an iOS 10 update,

01:58:21   7+ users will be able to do a portrait mode in the camera app that will synthesize the

01:58:32   background blurring and give you synthetic bokeh.

01:58:37   I really admire what they're doing here.

01:58:40   It is really impressive, and I really think

01:58:43   they're on the right track to something really awesome.

01:58:46   - But? - The fact that

01:58:48   it's totally synthetic, I don't know.

01:58:51   - That's not, that's why it's not the right track.

01:58:53   The right track is to be able to pull that off optically.

01:58:56   Like, eventually with the, again, mythical sensor

01:58:59   that is the entire back of your camera

01:59:00   with the just light field gathering and blah,

01:59:02   but like, to fake it, it's like,

01:59:04   it's like you had taken a picture

01:59:07   and then given to Todd Vaziri and told him pretend the background was blurred and like have them go in and mask out the part like

01:59:12   I mean it's doing more than that because it's not just give me a flat image

01:59:15   Let me find the people and blur the background because that would be awful

01:59:17   I think it's also using the dual cameras to do it to make a depth map

01:59:20   So it figures out like it's picking a focal distance

01:59:23   Then it's trying to make a depth map by I'm assuming using like stereo vision from the two cameras and figuring out what's close

01:59:28   And what's far by like, you know how far the images diverged from each other whatever making a depth map

01:59:33   And then picking its focal plane and then saying anything behind that

01:59:36   Then just applying like a blur filter to the stuff that is right behind it in these focal planes like and I guess that can

01:59:43   Look okay in the shots

01:59:44   but I honestly I think that the photos they chose to show us off were bad photos to show it off with like I

01:59:49   the backgrounds were so

01:59:53   Sort of bland that the blur didn't show anything like why did they do foliage fully just that is like the go-to right?

01:59:58   it's green with splotches of yellow with the light going through it and like that's that's what you want to see the blur on and

02:00:04   They didn't show any of those you're like a sky a gray sky with a suspension bridge

02:00:09   And then a couple of lights which I guess are pretty standard like the invitation had lights in them

02:00:13   And I had that person standing in front of a light field

02:00:15   But I was not all that impressed with the shots

02:00:18   And I worry that as this fake algorithm tries to make these depth maps

02:00:23   And then just like does gauge and blur in the back

02:00:25   that it's gonna look like that,

02:00:26   that it's gonna look like a picture

02:00:28   that a computer found the edges of your head

02:00:30   and then blurred everything behind it.

02:00:32   And that's, I'm not looking for that.

02:00:33   - Well, 'cause that's exactly what's happening.

02:00:35   And this is not new.

02:00:37   You've been able to get apps on the App Store.

02:00:38   Instagram does this.

02:00:39   That's why I thought it was kind of funny

02:00:41   to have Instagram out there to say,

02:00:42   "Oh, we can't wait to use all this new stuff."

02:00:43   It's like, Instagram's existing app

02:00:45   has a background blur feature that does this.

02:00:48   And there's, of course, lots of others.

02:00:50   - But that's gotta work on 2D.

02:00:52   It doesn't have the advantage of the depth field.

02:00:54   So presumably the depth field, you don't have the problem of edge detection around their

02:00:57   heads because you actually kind of have an idea.

02:00:59   Because in an actual camera shot with depth of field, the focal plane, the things that

02:01:05   are actually sharp are actually pretty narrow, and so the person's ears could start to be

02:01:09   a little bit blurry because they're farther back than their eyeballs or their nose.

02:01:12   And so you can't just find the edges of their hair and then blur everything behind it.

02:01:16   So the depth thing does give them an advantage.

02:01:18   When they showed that it's an expansion, like how many depth levels is it finding?

02:01:21   really how much depth can you find from two cameras that are within millimeters of each

02:01:25   other, right? It's a challenging problem. I always wonder if like you could have gone

02:01:29   3DS style and had the two cameras be separated more widely to get better depth on it, but

02:01:34   honestly the only like fake it till you make it, sure, but eventually you should make it,

02:01:39   which is do it for real with actual light.

02:01:41   David: Yeah, because the problem is the way they're doing, so you know the general principle

02:01:46   of find the subject, keep that in focus,

02:01:50   and then the rest of the background apply,

02:01:53   you know, a basic blur image filter too.

02:01:56   That approach has been around for a while,

02:01:58   and the new thing they're doing, as you said,

02:02:00   they have made advancements here in finding the subject,

02:02:04   like defining the edges of the subject,

02:02:06   defining the area that will be sharp,

02:02:08   and then blurring everything else.

02:02:10   That part they've made advances on,

02:02:12   made advances on, but this whole technique of take a regular photo that doesn't have

02:02:17   good background blur because it doesn't have shallow depth of field in practice, and then

02:02:21   blur the parts that are supposed to be blurred in software, the whole problem with this approach

02:02:26   is that the resulting picture, like that's not how real background blur looks.

02:02:31   If you do that technique, even if you do that technique perfectly, even if you perfectly

02:02:35   define which exact pixels in the frame are supposed to be sharp, and which ones are supposed

02:02:40   to have the blur effect applied to them,

02:02:42   it still doesn't look right,

02:02:44   because that isn't how that actually looks in practice.

02:02:46   Like, the regular image blur effect

02:02:49   is not producing the same look you get

02:02:51   from the out-of-focus areas in a shallot at the field photo.

02:02:54   So, it never looks right.

02:02:56   And I agree, I think the photos they picked,

02:02:58   they didn't really do themselves a lot of favors there.

02:03:00   I don't think those are very good examples.

02:03:01   And if that's the best they could come up with,

02:03:03   that might not be a good sign

02:03:06   for the usefulness of this feature,

02:03:08   or the overall quality of this feature.

02:03:11   - So one thing it did show off is I thought it did show

02:03:13   like you could see like their cheekbones were in focus

02:03:15   but their ears were a little bit out of focus.

02:03:17   That showed the hey, we're using depth,

02:03:18   we're not just doing edge detection

02:03:20   because you couldn't do that with the filters.

02:03:21   - They actually weren't using depth properly.

02:03:24   Like if you actually look, if you see like,

02:03:26   you can look at certain areas or some of the photos

02:03:28   and you can say, you know, you know this,

02:03:31   'cause if, you know, in real photography,

02:03:33   there is a plane of what is in focus.

02:03:36   And that plane is not actually perfectly flat,

02:03:38   it's actually curved because that's optics and physics,

02:03:41   but anyway, there's a plane of what's in focus.

02:03:44   So generally speaking, it's close to flat

02:03:46   for the most purposes, so generally speaking,

02:03:48   if somebody has two things on their face,

02:03:53   like let's say their eyelash and their chin,

02:03:56   two things that are the same depth away from the camera,

02:04:00   if one's in focus, the other should be in focus.

02:04:03   And that's, and Apple's test photos even had flaws

02:04:06   in that kind of logic.

02:04:08   And also I thought, one thing I noted on Twitter

02:04:11   during the time, I thought that whatever is defined

02:04:14   as the subject in focus, the edges of that,

02:04:16   like in the one that was the portrait of the guy,

02:04:19   his shoulders or his ears, they should have been in focus

02:04:23   based on what was being shown and how it was supposed to be,

02:04:27   basically what it was simulating,

02:04:29   the edges should have been in focus there and they weren't.

02:04:32   And so I'm not saying that average people

02:04:37   are going to notice that necessarily

02:04:40   and be able to nitpick on these little things like that.

02:04:42   But I think people do generally notice like,

02:04:44   hey, that looks fake or that looks like a filter.

02:04:49   That doesn't look real.

02:04:50   I think people do notice that.

02:04:53   - They should save the, I don't know,

02:04:55   maybe they're doing this 'cause we don't know,

02:04:56   we don't have the thing in the shipping later,

02:04:58   but if they took the picture and saved either the jpg

02:05:01   and the raw plus also saved the depth field,

02:05:04   that would have let you say, look,

02:05:05   Here's the regular picture you took, and if you want,

02:05:07   you can try this effect, but it's basically lossless.

02:05:10   Having to choose at the time,

02:05:12   even if you just say the JPEG with the depth field,

02:05:14   you can still apply it after the fact.

02:05:16   Having to choose at the time you take the picture,

02:05:17   you could, like, I fear for people who accidentally

02:05:20   put it into that mode and don't quite understand

02:05:21   where all the pictures are all messed up,

02:05:22   like they try to take a picture of a landscape

02:05:24   with that thing on and it goes haywire.

02:05:26   It would be much better if they just took

02:05:28   the best pictures they can, honestly,

02:05:30   from the optics and sensors they have.

02:05:32   And if you wanna be fancy and save a bunch of depth fields

02:05:34   another set of channels and have a fancy app

02:05:37   that can apply them selectively

02:05:38   and maybe it'll make some picture look better, that's fine.

02:05:41   - Yeah, I mean, this is a nice little trick.

02:05:44   You know, it's fun, people are gonna have fun with it

02:05:47   for a little while, but the thing is,

02:05:49   if you have a 56 millimeter f/2.8 lens,

02:05:54   you probably can get some background blur.

02:05:56   Like, you know, not as much as you would

02:05:58   on a larger sensor with those specs,

02:06:00   but if you just get a subject close to the lens

02:06:03   and have a background that's not that close to you,

02:06:05   like you can get blur that's real optically.

02:06:08   Again, probably not a ton of it, but you can get some.

02:06:11   And if they just highlighted that,

02:06:12   I think that would've just been a little bit,

02:06:14   I don't know, I think it would've looked better.

02:06:16   Anyway, doesn't matter.

02:06:18   - Yeah, I mean, I really think that this is the easiest way,

02:06:23   well, maybe it's a poor choice of words,

02:06:24   I really think that having this bokeh-like effect

02:06:29   is the best way to make someone that is interested

02:06:32   in more prosumer level photography like I am.

02:06:38   And I'm getting better at understanding the academia behind it, if you will.

02:06:43   But if you had told me two years ago, "Oh, you can get this depth of field effect from

02:06:48   your brand new iPhone," it really would have made me think twice about spending $1500 on

02:06:54   a Micro Four Thirds camera and a really nice lens.

02:06:57   So I really think they're going in the right direction.

02:06:59   Obviously, I agree that that doing this synthetically is definitely cheating, but as we've all been

02:07:06   saying particularly Gruber and MG Sigler, we are marching closer and closer toward not

02:07:12   necessarily needing a DSLR for most people.

02:07:16   And that's a great thing.

02:07:18   I think that's a wonderful thing.

02:07:20   One of the biggest drawbacks, however, to this simulated bokeh is that the way you access

02:07:26   it is by going into the camera app and selecting portrait mode, which implies to me that it's

02:07:33   been tuned in such a way that it is looking for faces.

02:07:39   And I think they said a little bit about this during the presentation, but it's tuned for

02:07:42   faces.

02:07:44   And I don't know if it's really going to work, at least for now, very well with things that

02:07:48   aren't faces.

02:07:49   And there are times, like some of the pictures I'm most proud of, some of them don't include

02:07:55   faces.

02:07:56   in the chat and I will put in the show notes a picture that I took at the beach a year or two ago

02:08:00   which has that background blur but I don't know how to phrase this I deployed it tactically kind

02:08:06   of like you deploy Merlin tactically but there's no faces in this picture and so how would that work

02:08:14   with this simulated bokeh would it work like this is where I think it all starts to fall well

02:08:19   on its face. But again, a step in the right direction.

02:08:24   - I appreciated how Phil positioned it

02:08:27   during the presentation.

02:08:28   I mean, and because I didn't say it earlier,

02:08:30   I think Phil was awesome.

02:08:31   I think he was clearly the highlight of the show.

02:08:34   He really had a lot of good stuff to say.

02:08:37   He delivered it well, with one exception,

02:08:39   which we got to about the headphone thing.

02:08:42   But overall, I liked Phil today a lot.

02:08:44   And I think the way he set expectations here was good.

02:08:48   Like he said right in the keynote that this is not going to replace SLRs for pros.

02:08:55   This is not going to do that.

02:08:57   And that's really good to hear.

02:08:59   It's good to keep expectations realistic and to tone down the hyperbole and stuff because

02:09:04   if you set expectations accordingly then people will be pleased.

02:09:09   But if you say we're going to kill SLRs for pros or for people who really like shooting

02:09:15   real background blur, stuff like that.

02:09:18   If you say that and then your solution to that

02:09:20   is just software blur, that would be a big disappointment.

02:09:24   So they actually did it pretty well.

02:09:26   - Yeah.

02:09:27   Let's do our fourth sponsor for this evening.

02:09:31   This was unsolicited, but it's the right thing to do,

02:09:35   and I think we did this last year.

02:09:37   Dear friend of the show, Stephen Hackett,

02:09:39   his eldest son has been affected with childhood cancer

02:09:45   and for the month of September, it is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

02:09:51   And so we'll put a link in the show notes to a brief post that Stephen put up on his

02:09:55   website 512pixels.net, and it is a really touching post about what it's like to be the

02:10:01   parent of a child, a young child with cancer.

02:10:05   And so obviously we always like it if you are a patron of any of our sponsors, but I

02:10:12   I know I speak for all three of us in saying we would really, really super mega ultra-like

02:10:16   it if you could scrape together any amount of money to donate to St. Jude's Children's

02:10:21   Research Hospital.

02:10:22   There'll be links to all this in the show notes, probably in our sponsored by section.

02:10:28   And I've donated, Marco's donated, I don't know if Jon has donated yet, but I know I

02:10:32   am speaking for him and saying that if he hasn't, he will.

02:10:35   >> Already did.

02:10:36   >> Oh, there you go.

02:10:38   And this is, even though I am lucky enough, or we are lucky enough not to have children

02:10:42   with cancer, it's still near and dear to Steven's heart, and by virtue of it being near and

02:10:47   dear to his heart, it's near and dear to ours.

02:10:48   So if you could scrape together even just a couple of dollars and throw it St. Jude's

02:10:53   way, I think all three of us would really appreciate it.

02:10:56   Absolutely.

02:10:57   This is a reverse sponsor.

02:10:58   They're not giving us money.

02:10:59   We're giving them money.

02:11:00   Yeah, exactly.

02:11:01   They're a reverse sponsor.

02:11:02   I like it.

02:11:03   So next on the list, Retina HD display.

02:11:04   We've sort of kind of covered this already.

02:11:07   There is wide gamut color.

02:11:10   No True Tone though, which I'm disappointed by.

02:11:13   I'm lucky that I haven't yet been ruined by seeing a True Tone display, or if I have, it's

02:11:17   been for seconds.

02:11:19   But I was looking forward to getting a True Tone device in my new iPhone, and as it turns

02:11:25   out, not so much.

02:11:26   No room for the light sensor.

02:11:28   They need to remove another port.

02:11:29   Yeah, I was going to say that...

02:11:31   Sorry, the lightning port is gone.

02:11:34   Yeah, just like that.

02:11:35   - No, they won't get rid of that,

02:11:36   'cause that's actually giving them lots of income and stuff.

02:11:39   No, it'll get rid of the volume buttons,

02:11:40   as you said earlier. - They'll remove the microphone

02:11:41   because no one talks into their phones anyway.

02:11:43   (laughing)

02:11:45   - Well, now we have another solution.

02:11:46   You can buy a Bluetooth wireless microphone now for $169.

02:11:51   - Oh, goodness, so yeah, I was disappointed by that,

02:11:54   but the display in general,

02:11:55   they also said it was 20% brighter, which is, that's cool.

02:11:59   So I dig it in general,

02:12:02   but I am sad that there is no true tone display.

02:12:04   - And it's not OLED, we're saving that for next year.

02:12:07   - Yeah, it did seem, given how they usually do things,

02:12:12   like, all right, first we're gonna introduce

02:12:14   this cool new advanced thing on one of our devices,

02:12:17   then it's gonna move to the other ones.

02:12:18   The fact that you had it on the iPad Pro 9.7,

02:12:22   and then to not have it on the following flagship iPhone

02:12:27   is odd.

02:12:28   I think you're right, Jon, it probably was

02:12:31   just for light sensor space reasons,

02:12:34   but it does seem like an odd omission.

02:12:37   - Also lead times, I think I imagine lead times,

02:12:39   even though this phone came out after the small iPad Pro,

02:12:43   I think this phone was probably developed,

02:12:45   had a longer lead time in development.

02:12:47   And so that's kind of the same reason

02:12:48   the 12.5 inch didn't have the good,

02:12:50   the quote unquote good or best display,

02:12:53   even though it was out only a little bit before.

02:12:55   Like I think it just comes down to lead times

02:12:57   and the fact that it's so tight in there.

02:12:58   So don't worry, it'll be on the 10th anniversary phone.

02:13:02   Unless there's something specific about it

02:13:03   in terms of processing and screen tech that makes it not fit in the thing, but I don't

02:13:08   know of any limitation that just makes it not compatible with a phone-sized device for

02:13:13   the foreseeable future, so I expect to see it in the next phone.

02:13:16   I agree. Next on the list, audio. Not headphone audio, just audio audio. And Phil said the

02:13:25   new iPhone has stereo speakers, which all of us I think were expecting, but all of us

02:13:31   were kind of fearful, or most of us anyway, that there would be two speakers on the bottom

02:13:35   of the phone, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose. But oh no, there's a speaker

02:13:39   on the top and speaker on the bottom, which I'm actually pretty excited for. I listen

02:13:43   to stuff off my iPhone semi-frequently. I listen to podcasts fairly frequently. Occasionally

02:13:50   I'll listen to music if I'm too lazy to go turn on my main amplifier in the family room

02:13:56   or connect to some other speaker system. I actually very rarely listen to any sort of

02:14:00   headphone with my iPhone, we'll talk about that in a minute, but I'm really excited to

02:14:04   have the stereo speakers because occasionally I watch movies on my iPhone. It doesn't happen

02:14:08   often, but enough that I'm excited about it. And two times the volume? Heck yes. I am all

02:14:13   in on that. Really excited. Genuinely. I'm not trying to be snarky. I am genuinely excited

02:14:17   for this.

02:14:18   - No, that's because like, I mean, I also, I use my iPhone speaker all the time, usually

02:14:21   for listening to podcasts, and to have, and you know, sometimes like YouTube videos too,

02:14:26   to have any extra volume there,

02:14:29   especially in the podcast use case,

02:14:30   is going to be used a lot.

02:14:32   People are going to love that.

02:14:33   And I think the whole thing with worrying about it

02:14:36   being two on one side or whatever,

02:14:38   there's a lot of people who are like,

02:14:40   "Oh, well, you're not gonna get

02:14:41   "a lot of stereo separation there."

02:14:43   And the point of adding more speakers

02:14:46   on a little phone like this,

02:14:47   the point is not stereo separation.

02:14:50   It is not positional accuracy.

02:14:52   It is not audio file quality here.

02:14:54   I say this as an audio file.

02:14:56   It is not for this purpose.

02:14:57   (laughing)

02:14:58   The main reason that we would want it

02:15:02   and would benefit from it is volume

02:15:04   and additional directionality.

02:15:06   So if you look at the iPad line,

02:15:09   you know the iPads for years had like that one dumb speaker

02:15:12   on the bottom like basically,

02:15:14   as if they were a giant iPhone,

02:15:16   just like having one right in the corner there.

02:15:17   And then in the iPad Pro generation this last year,

02:15:21   they basically made it so that there's a speaker

02:15:22   on all four corners.

02:15:24   and they treat it as like two with one being the woofer.

02:15:27   Anyway, it doesn't matter.

02:15:28   The result of this is that iPad speakers now are so good

02:15:32   that compared to what they were before

02:15:34   having just the one-on-one side,

02:15:37   they are way louder at max volume,

02:15:39   also way clearer, just way higher sound quality you get

02:15:42   by just having four drivers working together

02:15:45   to produce one set of sound.

02:15:47   Basically, you can drive them a little bit less harshly

02:15:49   and have a little less distortion.

02:15:50   and then you have them firing now in two directions.

02:15:55   And so that helps fill a room or a space better

02:15:59   and more effectively.

02:16:00   Or even just around a table or around a chair.

02:16:03   It's better to have it coming out of more sides

02:16:06   than just in one direction off to the side.

02:16:08   On the phone it's gonna be a little bit different

02:16:10   because what they did was they have the speaker

02:16:13   on the bottom in the same place it always was.

02:16:15   And the second speaker, they've basically,

02:16:17   it seems like they've just kinda amped up

02:16:19   the earpiece speaker where people's phone call voice

02:16:22   comes out like that up top, the earpiece speaker.

02:16:24   - Oh, is that right?

02:16:24   - That is the second speaker.

02:16:26   - Oh, I didn't know that.

02:16:27   - Yeah, there's no top grill.

02:16:29   The second speaker is a louder, amped up earpiece speaker.

02:16:35   So what remains to be seen, basically,

02:16:38   what you're gonna have, if you're holding the phone

02:16:41   in landscape view with the home button on the right,

02:16:44   the way you'd probably watch a YouTube video or a movie,

02:16:47   You basically have one speaker,

02:16:49   that's where the old one always was,

02:16:51   coming out into your right hand,

02:16:53   and the second speaker then is pointing towards you

02:16:57   from your left thumb.

02:16:59   So the sound is coming out at two different angles,

02:17:03   and it's coming out from two

02:17:04   probably different sounding speakers

02:17:07   because they're not only pointing different directions,

02:17:09   but they have different types of enclosures

02:17:11   and ports around them to let the air in and out.

02:17:15   So it's probably gonna sound weird,

02:17:18   like if you try to treat it sideways like that.

02:17:20   I don't know, I really am interested

02:17:23   to see how this is in practice.

02:17:25   Where it would be great is things like podcasts and music

02:17:27   where you're laying the phone down on a table

02:17:30   or maybe in your car's cup holder is a very popular one.

02:17:33   Things like that where you're just putting the phone down

02:17:36   somewhere and you just want volume.

02:17:37   - Your car's cup holder?

02:17:39   I don't understand how you people,

02:17:41   Marco with the audio file and just anyone in general

02:17:43   can tolerate the sound coming out of a phone,

02:17:45   even for podcasts. - It's for podcasts.

02:17:47   - I can't even, even for podcasts,

02:17:49   I can't even understand what they're saying.

02:17:50   Cup holder in a car?

02:17:51   - Have you ever used overcast, man?

02:17:53   I fixed this problem.

02:17:54   - Is the car not running?

02:17:55   Maybe you have better, maybe in your electric car

02:17:57   with no internal combustion engine

02:17:59   or your BMW is better sounding.

02:18:01   My iPhone playing audio in my running car?

02:18:05   - It's not me, I hear from my customers

02:18:08   who people do this because--

02:18:09   - Oh yeah, no, I know people do this.

02:18:11   - Because lots of cars don't have good audio input options.

02:18:14   But it just sounds so terrible so incredibly terrible

02:18:18   And I think I mean the iPad pro the the small iPad pro with the four speakers huge upgrade and sound and yet still awful

02:18:23   Still awful and so the phone I totally applaud the extra volume

02:18:27   I think that's great anything you can give to give you more volume with less distortion

02:18:30   So you have a chance of understanding? I think all this is great, but I still think the world's worst

02:18:36   $5 earbuds are better than playing that damn phone on a counter

02:18:40   And I don't understand how the two of you with your house full of Bluetooth speakers

02:18:43   Choose to take your phone and chuck it on your kitchen counter instead of just bluetooth into a speaker

02:18:47   You're right as we'll get to Bluetooth sucks

02:18:50   That's why I have a house full of Bluetooth speakers

02:18:53   And I hardly ever use them because they're a pain in the butt to each to each his own improvements in sound quality are good

02:18:59   I'm glad that I'm glad the two speakers aren't next to each other although

02:19:02   It does not give them a convenient excuse for why the headphone port is gone because guess what they didn't replace it with two speakers

02:19:08   down there, the other one is up on the top and the one facing towards you, I think that's

02:19:12   a benefit because everyone has done, I think the iPhone cup, where you cup your hand to

02:19:16   aim the sound at you and are shocked by what a difference that makes.

02:19:20   Having one actually pointed at you, it's got to be a big upgrade.

02:19:23   So, all thumbs up on this.

02:19:25   There's not room in this phone to put giant empty cavities like there is in the iPad Pros,

02:19:29   right?

02:19:30   So, thumbs up on making it better, but I still don't quite understand.

02:19:34   Maybe it's because I'm getting old and my hearing is going bad, but I feel like it's

02:19:37   Not like unless I'm all because it's terrible,

02:19:39   because it is terrible, but like unless I'm on the like,

02:19:41   I can't even understand what people are saying.

02:19:43   - You know, I have a feature in Overcast

02:19:44   that minimize the distortion when you're using the speaker.

02:19:47   I've actually profiled this and measured it.

02:19:49   - If I ever willingly listened, yes, I know.

02:19:51   I've used that feature just to see if it made it better,

02:19:53   and it does make it a little bit better,

02:19:55   but it still sounds like garbage.

02:19:56   So I put my earbuds in.

02:19:57   (laughing)

02:19:58   - That's good.

02:19:59   - The speaker is the size of like a pencil eraser,

02:20:01   not even, it's terrible.

02:20:02   - Well, like I actually have very low expectations

02:20:06   for the quality that I'm going to get

02:20:08   out of the earpiece speaker.

02:20:09   Just because there's no room there for porting

02:20:13   or shaping the sound at all

02:20:15   or having a nice wide output port.

02:20:18   It's just a little slit.

02:20:20   So that's gonna be--

02:20:20   - Maybe they do the same thing

02:20:22   with you were saying with the iPad

02:20:23   where they just send certain frequency cutoffs

02:20:25   to use one as a tweeter or something.

02:20:28   Who knows?

02:20:29   The biggest thing is volume.

02:20:31   You're right, double the volume.

02:20:33   That's the headline feature.

02:20:35   - So really needed, everybody loves it, thumbs up.

02:20:38   - Yeah.

02:20:39   - All right, so next on the list, we've got four more.

02:20:43   - Oh my God, how long is this show gonna be?

02:20:45   - Yep, next on the list, Apple was courageous.

02:20:50   - Oh.

02:20:51   - And they dropped the headphone port.

02:20:54   John, can you explain to us why using the word courage

02:20:57   was a interesting choice here?

02:20:59   - Before we get here, can we just marvel

02:21:02   at the skill of Apple PR during this transition

02:21:07   of leaking this to the press like six months ago.

02:21:10   So that way, we are now over two hours into our podcast

02:21:15   talking about the new iPhone event

02:21:17   before we even really talked about

02:21:19   the headphone jack removal.

02:21:20   - I don't know if Apple PR leaked it that early.

02:21:21   I think the parts leak leaked before Apple PR did.

02:21:24   - I think Apple PR leaked to major public,

02:21:27   parts leak all the time,

02:21:29   but you had the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg,

02:21:32   major public publications publishing as fact

02:21:35   that the next iPhone was gonna have

02:21:36   the same exterior case design and lose the headphone jack.

02:21:39   So you see all the bad news early,

02:21:42   so then by the time it actually comes around,

02:21:44   now it's like old news.

02:21:46   It's like no one's, well some people are talking about it,

02:21:48   but most of the analysis and reviews of this thing

02:21:52   are now just like, oh yeah, yeah, old, you know.

02:21:54   - As you talk about that last show.

02:21:55   - As you know, it's like, oh it sucks genius, sucks genius.

02:21:59   - I don't attribute it to the genius of PR,

02:22:01   I totally don't think it's a PR thing.

02:22:02   I think it is completely,

02:22:04   like if you want to attribute the cleverness of doing this,

02:22:07   attribute it to the people who made the decision

02:22:09   of what's gonna be in the product.

02:22:10   And that's not PR, PR doesn't decide.

02:22:11   PR takes the product that's there.

02:22:12   And I know marketing has more of an influence

02:22:14   in Apple's products and other companies,

02:22:15   but in general, the clever thing was to decide

02:22:19   that this phone and not the next year's eight

02:22:22   is gonna be the one where they drop the head of important.

02:22:23   Once they made that decision,

02:22:25   it was inevitable that it would leak early

02:22:26   and it was inevitable that everything would come out.

02:22:29   And then maybe you can credit PR later for confirming to the big publications that yes, this really is true to get that all out of the way.

02:22:35   But anyway, we talked about that all in the last show. This show, as Jason Snell put it in a Six Colors post,

02:22:39   the number, I think it was the number one thing that he wanted to learn from this event is,

02:22:42   "Apple, please tell me why you removed this port." Like a justification.

02:22:45   We've all talked about many possible justifications. Now Apple had its time on stage to tell us in its own words

02:22:51   why they did this. And the more I've been thinking about it, the more I'm kind of glad

02:22:58   that they didn't go small, like for example the stereo speakers. Pretend that they had added a

02:23:03   second speaker but it was right next to the other one, next to that little grill that actually isn't

02:23:06   a grill in front of anything, right? If they had actually done that, it might have been easy for

02:23:10   them to say, you know, "We removed the headphone jack." You might be wondering why. Well,

02:23:15   once we removed it we had room for the second speaker and it's twice as loud, isn't that a

02:23:19   great idea? Like, they didn't think small. They didn't say, "Let me just look at the physical

02:23:23   design of this phone, tell you what is in the space where the headphone jack used to be."

02:23:26   because there's something there, it's not an empty space, if you look at the little picture they showed, you know,

02:23:30   you could see there's not this big place that holds the headphone jack, so there's something there, and they could have said,

02:23:35   "We didn't have the headphone jack," kind of like many people did with the MacBook One,

02:23:40   "We don't have the second USB port because look at the thing that's there, and there's not a millimeter to spare,

02:23:45   I don't have a square to spare," right? They didn't say that. They said,

02:23:49   they led with the number one thing, of courage. Like, they took the high road,

02:23:53   We're just basically saying look we get rid of crap all the time we get rid of things that are old

02:23:57   We make buttons not move

02:23:59   It's it's the reason we say courage is because we know people are gonna be angry about it

02:24:05   And it takes someone with the guts to drop

02:24:07   Legacy serial ports or the floppy drive or optical drives from desktop computers that are gigantic

02:24:12   We do that despite the fact that we know

02:24:16   There will be backlash because we think it's the right thing to do in terms of driving progress and we're willing to take

02:24:22   The you know the yelling which isn't really a justification. It's more of an explanation

02:24:28   Why does Apple do things that make us mad?

02:24:31   because they think it's right and they're willing to take the heat and

02:24:34   The more I think about it the more I say that that is the in in the absence of any

02:24:39   Actual concrete really compelling explanation like it makes our phones, you know now our phones don't break or something like fantastical or whatever

02:24:48   That is the real honest and only explanation is it this is a thing that Apple does

02:24:53   Because I think it's the right thing to do and come at me haters

02:24:56   Like that's what that's what they basically said which I find the more I think about it more satisfying than

02:25:04   Specific reasons that I could nitpick at because this is not a specific reason it is merely an explanation and I say yeah

02:25:11   That's why they do it

02:25:12   Yeah, I mean, you know if you look at like all the reasons that we've all been arguing about all summer about why

02:25:18   why this is good or bad or justified or unjustified.

02:25:22   The whole summer we kept saying,

02:25:24   let's wait and see what Apple says on stage

02:25:26   because let's see what their reason is.

02:25:27   And it is disappointing to basically hear their reason

02:25:31   is we felt like it.

02:25:33   - Well it's not we felt like it,

02:25:34   they did say they feel like it's moving progress forward.

02:25:38   - That doesn't mean anything.

02:25:39   - If you were looking for a justification,

02:25:41   there is nothing that,

02:25:42   because we've gone through all the reasons,

02:25:43   there's nothing that they could say

02:25:45   that is compelling enough to,

02:25:49   like there's a trade-off,

02:25:50   like we all know about the inconvenience and problems.

02:25:53   What is balancing that on the other side?

02:25:55   There is no specific feature or attribute of this phone,

02:25:58   and there could never be any specific feature

02:26:00   or attribute of this phone

02:26:01   that would explain that adequately.

02:26:03   The only explanation is the actual explanation,

02:26:05   which is they do things like this

02:26:08   to sort of push the human race forward,

02:26:11   to quote from their ads,

02:26:12   and they know people are mad about it

02:26:14   and are going to be mad justifiably, not unjustifiably.

02:26:17   They know there are reasons to get mad about it.

02:26:19   Why does Apple do these things?

02:26:21   Because that encourages a little bit of a r

02:26:21   because that encourages a little bit of overblown,

02:26:23   but because they're willing to take the heat for that.

02:26:26   They're willing to plow bravely forward,

02:26:29   allow people to be legitimately angry at them

02:26:31   for legitimate inconveniences

02:26:34   because they believe they will come out the other side

02:26:36   eventually.

02:26:38   They came out the other side of all the other ones,

02:26:39   they're gonna come out the other side of this,

02:26:40   and you can, as we did, argue about is it too soon?

02:26:45   Is it too late?

02:26:46   Did they get rid of the floppy too soon or too late?

02:26:48   Or was it exactly the right time?

02:26:50   maybe they were a little bit early on the floppy.

02:26:52   Did we come out the other side of that?

02:26:54   Yes, we did.

02:26:55   Time was on their side.

02:26:56   A lot of our determination 10 years from now

02:27:00   about this, did they go too early, too late,

02:27:02   or was it a mistake?

02:27:03   Because they could backpedal

02:27:03   like the glass front and back phone.

02:27:06   Were they too early, too late,

02:27:07   or was that not a great idea?

02:27:08   Turns out, probably not a great idea

02:27:10   with the current formulation of glass.

02:27:11   So they didn't do that again.

02:27:12   They're gonna try it again, maybe,

02:27:14   with the iPhone 8 or whatever next year.

02:27:16   So maybe they'll come back to it.

02:27:17   But anyway, we'll have to be able

02:27:19   to make those determinations in hindsight,

02:27:20   But their explanation, like I said, it makes sense to me,

02:27:25   and I feel like it's the only thing they could possibly say,

02:27:28   and it's better than them trying to shuck and jive and dance

02:27:32   and try to convince you,

02:27:33   'cause they're not gonna convince you.

02:27:34   It is gonna be inconvenient.

02:27:35   And their main point was,

02:27:37   we are willing to take your anger, bring it to us,

02:27:42   and we will bring it to them,

02:27:43   and people will bring it to them,

02:27:44   and hey, they put the adapter in the box.

02:27:46   So basically, they did basically everything they can

02:27:49   short of not doing this.

02:27:50   And I totally believe this is something

02:27:52   that would have to happen eventually,

02:27:53   infinite time scale, blah, blah, blah.

02:27:55   This is when they've chosen to do it.

02:27:57   They're willing to take the heat.

02:27:58   I think they'll mostly be okay.

02:28:01   - Yeah, I mean, I agree that they did this

02:28:06   in the best way they could.

02:28:07   If they're going to remove the port,

02:28:09   you know, good job including the adapter in the box

02:28:11   and good job making additional adapters, $9.

02:28:14   It'd be nice if the adapter was also

02:28:16   a charge-through adapter because people do that a lot.

02:28:19   But okay, we'll take what we can get for now.

02:28:22   - Third parties will sell that, I guarantee it.

02:28:25   - Yeah.

02:28:26   - Anyway, I mean, timing-wise,

02:28:30   if they did this without the AirPods,

02:28:32   which we'll get to in a little bit,

02:28:33   I think it would also be a little bit weaker.

02:28:35   So, I mean, again, the AirPods are wildcard.

02:28:39   We don't know how well they work

02:28:40   and what they're gonna be like,

02:28:41   and we'll talk about them in a little bit.

02:28:42   but I think everything is in place for this

02:28:46   to be fairly judged in hindsight five years from now.

02:28:50   I guess we'll all just wait for the USA Today stories

02:28:53   to come out about it in the complaints and whatever,

02:28:55   but as you said, the tech press already went through this.

02:28:57   The mainstream press is gonna have a big thing about it.

02:29:00   It's too late.

02:29:02   If this turns out to be a colossal mistake,

02:29:04   it's too late for them to fix it on next year's phone

02:29:06   by this point, which is kind of sad.

02:29:08   I kind of like it was too late for them

02:29:10   fix it on the 4S, right? But when the 5 came out, no glass on both sides. But I think they'll

02:29:15   mostly be okay. And if anything, I think they spent more time trying to justify it than they

02:29:20   needed to. Like they should, they could have just done, who is it? Tom Brokaw or Dan Rather, who

02:29:25   signed off his last broadcast with the word "Courage." They could have just done that and

02:29:29   then just moved on. But, yeah, the "Courage" thing, that was tone deaf. I mean, not tone deaf. Like,

02:29:35   there's something to it. Like I said, they are in the abstract when talking about

02:29:40   companies, why do some companies use things and other ones don't? It does come down to,

02:29:44   I don't know, boldness. It is courage in the context of companies making decisions about

02:29:53   their products. If that is your frame of reference, within that frame there are moves that are more

02:29:59   courageous and less courageous, and Apple has historically been a company that's willing to do

02:30:03   the more courageous things, even if it falls on its face sometimes. That's the defining

02:30:08   fine characteristic of Apple as a company.

02:30:10   And so if you don't want to,

02:30:11   it's not the same as like real courage, real life,

02:30:12   no it's not, it's a bunch of companies

02:30:13   picking features for their products.

02:30:15   But I'm hard pressed to find a better word.

02:30:20   - Again, genius at Apple PR,

02:30:21   there is nothing really left for me to say

02:30:23   about the headphone jack removal at this point.

02:30:26   We waited for there to be a reason, there wasn't one.

02:30:29   None of the reasons they gave,

02:30:30   with the exception of courage,

02:30:32   were reasons that made this,

02:30:36   reasons that you had to remove the port to achieve.

02:30:39   Like, they could have launched AirPods,

02:30:41   they could have promoted Lightning headphones

02:30:43   and launched some of their own Lightning EarPods.

02:30:45   They could have done all those things

02:30:46   without removing the headphone port.

02:30:48   Like, removing the headphone port was not a necessity

02:30:50   for any of those advances.

02:30:52   So, they never, so, the courageous part

02:30:55   was really just saying, "All right, well,

02:30:57   "I guess we're gonna anger everybody here

02:30:59   "and to do something that serves a few of our goals

02:31:04   "and doesn't really serve any of yours."

02:31:06   Well, but it serves, it's just like the floppy disk though.

02:31:08   Like what did it say?

02:31:10   I think it's a floppy disk help users.

02:31:11   They're all like, well, we think we should,

02:31:12   you should use different, what different removable media?

02:31:15   There's not any good different removable media.

02:31:17   Zip disks are crappy and USB keys are really slow

02:31:19   and small and thingy.

02:31:20   Well, we think in the future you won't miss the floppy disk

02:31:22   because other stuff will eventually replace it.

02:31:24   Yeah, but what about now?

02:31:25   I miss my floppy disk now.

02:31:26   Well, they're doing the exact same thing with the audio part.

02:31:27   Again, this doesn't justify it, doing it this instant,

02:31:30   but they're saying like, well,

02:31:31   but what do I do for my headphones?

02:31:32   Oh, digital audio interface on lightning, blah, blah, blah.

02:31:34   Never mind the half of things they should plug into there.

02:31:36   Like I'm assuming their earbuds are not using digital audio

02:31:39   because there's no DAC inside their little ear pods, right?

02:31:41   Anyway, but they're saying the AirPods are their thing.

02:31:45   Like, oh, you know, we think there's a better way

02:31:48   for you to hear sound in your ears

02:31:50   that come out of your phone

02:31:50   than plugging in with this really old port.

02:31:53   And they're offering an actual concrete product,

02:31:55   not just like speculatively, like here are the AirPods.

02:31:57   Maybe the AirPods suck.

02:31:58   And that will definitely make it the wrong time

02:32:00   to have done this

02:32:01   because people will wanna plug their things in.

02:32:03   But on the other hand, they do have answers.

02:32:05   Why remove it?

02:32:06   It makes more room in the phone,

02:32:07   and we think there's better ways

02:32:08   for you to listen to audio.

02:32:10   And if the AirPods end up being really good

02:32:13   and don't have any of the downsides of Bluetooth,

02:32:15   they don't cut out on you,

02:32:15   and the sound quality is pretty good,

02:32:17   and they magically connect everything,

02:32:18   and everything syncs up, whatever,

02:32:20   I think there probably will be a better way

02:32:22   to listen to audio from your phone

02:32:23   than having a string going from your pocket

02:32:25   up to your ear that gets snagged on things.

02:32:26   - Oh, it'll be great for the people

02:32:28   who are willing to spend $160 to buy those AirPods

02:32:31   who don't lose them, who they are charged up for,

02:32:34   and who can actually wear them.

02:32:35   Like, one of the problems I have is like,

02:32:37   Apple is replacing this port

02:32:39   that I can use any headphone I want with,

02:32:41   with a new, with, you know, allegedly,

02:32:44   all these better things, one of the major ones of which

02:32:47   is advanced earbuds.

02:32:49   Well, I can't wear earbuds,

02:32:50   'cause of whatever is wrong with my ears

02:32:52   that makes them hurt like hell, like--

02:32:53   - You got mutineers, yeah.

02:32:54   I know a lot of people have mutineers,

02:32:56   but you have the adapter, like,

02:32:58   it's not like you don't have any solution.

02:32:59   - Yes, but what I'm saying is like,

02:33:00   There's lots of people, like that old analog port,

02:33:04   one of the things great about it is that it is universal.

02:33:08   It satisfies so many different people's needs and desires,

02:33:12   and it is so broad in what it enables

02:33:16   for so many different use cases,

02:33:18   and Apple is replacing it with something

02:33:19   that's actually extremely narrow.

02:33:21   - I think I need to be the voice of reason on this one.

02:33:24   I don't see why this is such a big problem,

02:33:29   given that they're including the adapter in the box.

02:33:32   And BuzzFeed had a really great article

02:33:34   that actually Marco had sent to us privately

02:33:36   before we recorded, where they talked

02:33:38   to several different Apple employees and executives.

02:33:41   And so Dan, is it Riccio or Ritchie-o?

02:33:46   Said, this is a quote, "It was holding us back

02:33:50   "from a number of things we wanted to put into the iPhone.

02:33:53   "It was fighting for space with camera technologies

02:33:55   "and processors and battery life.

02:33:56   "And frankly, when there's a better modern solution available

02:33:59   It's crazy to keep it around.

02:34:01   I think that that's legitimately what they thought. Like one of you were saying earlier, I don't think this was nefarious.

02:34:09   I don't think this was ill-intentioned.

02:34:10   They genuinely just wanted the space in there. And one of the things we haven't talked about yet

02:34:15   is that the battery life in the 7 is, I would say, considerably better than the success that it replaces.

02:34:22   Some of that is because of a much better

02:34:25   central processor which again we'll talk about sometime between now and tomorrow when we finally stop but

02:34:30   but

02:34:33   Some of that is also I believe because of a bigger battery and let's suppose the battery is exactly the same size for the sake of

02:34:39   Discussion there's a different placed taptic engine that presumably is a little larger

02:34:44   There's things taking up space in this camera in this camera in this phone

02:34:48   And I am more than willing to give up a headphone port that I personally don't

02:34:54   Used very often at all in order to get those advancements and the thing that really bothers me that I truly don't understand is

02:35:02   The entire internet getting their junk on a wad because they say Bluetooth sucks

02:35:07   I use a really shitty pair of Bluetooth headphones

02:35:11   Constantly I use them 40 hours a week at work. I

02:35:16   Don't these headphones are like 20 bucks brand new there. We'll put a link in the show notes. I

02:35:22   Don't have any problem with them. I use them for a day or two and then I charge them overnight. I

02:35:28   Don't find any latency issues whenever I if I'm watching a video as long as I'm on the Mac

02:35:35   Yeah

02:35:35   from watching a video using either Safari or

02:35:38   Any of the like quick time any of the media players that are built into the Mac no problems with latency

02:35:44   They sound just fine for a regular person to Marco

02:35:49   I am not saying they would sound good enough to me. They sound just fine. It wasn't those phone on his counter. I don't know

02:35:55   Like that well either way either way either way the point is I

02:36:02   Don't have any issues with disconnections

02:36:04   And if I do it's very rare

02:36:07   And it's only when I haven't been using them for the last 20 minutes, and they've like timed themselves out and gone to sleep

02:36:12   I'm not saying these problems don't exist from other people but

02:36:16   Golly I don't understand why I'm the special friggin snowflake of Bluetooth and why I am the only one that

02:36:23   Doesn't have this problem

02:36:26   Using in the challenging situation like Bluetooth has a bunch of things that it's supposed to do and it does a whole bunch of them

02:36:31   really badly

02:36:32   Pairing quickly it depends on your device. So my car doesn't do a good job

02:36:36   disaster sharing a device between multiple things also a disaster if you only ever have it paired with one thing that you never move it away from

02:36:43   from and it sits in one place, but you're not challenging.

02:36:47   The job of Bluetooth is not just to fulfill that one use case you have.

02:36:50   The job of Bluetooth is to be this wireless low-power tech.

02:36:52   And I would say power-wise, I'm assuming Apple's one uses less power than Bluetooth, too.

02:36:57   In theory, because we haven't tried this yet, Apple's solution is technically better than

02:37:01   Bluetooth because it fixes the things that are clunky and annoying about Bluetooth, and

02:37:05   I assume it also uses less energy.

02:37:07   So that's why I tweeted the thing.

02:37:10   I'm happy to see Apple moving beyond Bluetooth.

02:37:12   They keep waiting and doing these different Bluetooth standards, and it's just annoying

02:37:16   from users.

02:37:17   We have one little shared speaker in our bedroom that my wife uses sometimes from Bluetooth,

02:37:21   and I use sometimes from Bluetooth, and I hate the fact that when I go to try to play

02:37:24   from it, I can't just select it because, oh, now it's paired with my wife's phone and I

02:37:27   have to go and manually reconnect it to my phone, right, by going through a series of

02:37:32   screens.

02:37:33   Their attempt to solve this with this little magic case that you open up the lid on and

02:37:36   it brings up a thing, who knows if that works, but there is a real problem they're trying

02:37:40   to address. Just because your use case doesn't run into any of those problems doesn't mean

02:37:43   that Bluetooth can't be bettered. And I think because Bluetooth is such a common complaint,

02:37:47   like it's not terrible, it's better than nothing, it's good for the wireless things we use it

02:37:52   for, I do use Bluetooth speakers, it's nice, but everyone who uses it a lot and uses all

02:37:56   the different cases sees the weak spots and so is looking for usually the next version

02:38:01   of Bluetooth that's going to fix all this, but in the end eventually we're just willing

02:38:04   to throw ourselves at the mercies of Apple's proprietary thing. It's kind of like I said

02:38:09   before about the little RF dongles for Logitech mice.

02:38:13   Who knows what tech they're using there,

02:38:15   but the batteries last forever

02:38:16   and I never have any problems with it

02:38:17   and I'm kind of glad they're not Bluetooth.

02:38:20   - Yeah, I mean, my main concern with things like this,

02:38:23   the reason why I resist these things

02:38:27   and I complain about these things when they happen,

02:38:29   it's very similar between the headphone jack removal

02:38:33   moving to Bluetooth and buttons on track pads

02:38:37   and home buttons moving to 3D touch,

02:38:39   vibration motors, whatever else.

02:38:41   The main reason I complain about this kind of stuff

02:38:43   is that the things that were there before,

02:38:46   the simple, old, established ways of doing things,

02:38:50   headphone jacks, buttons,

02:38:52   those things have incredible advantages

02:38:55   in simplicity and reliability.

02:38:58   And I mean simplicity not just electrically

02:39:02   or mechanically, but using them.

02:39:05   There's great simplicity there.

02:39:06   And there are so many cases in technology these days

02:39:09   where we take something that is incredibly simple,

02:39:12   that has worked forever like a button,

02:39:14   and we say, you know what,

02:39:16   we have a great solution to this problem.

02:39:18   This problem, by the way, that we just invented,

02:39:19   that we're now calling it a problem,

02:39:21   and we're now saying it's inevitable

02:39:22   these things are going away,

02:39:23   even though that was not necessarily the case before.

02:39:25   But now we're gonna solve this problem,

02:39:27   everything in air quotes,

02:39:28   I can't make enough air quotes for this whole discussion,

02:39:29   everything in air quotes here.

02:39:31   We're gonna solve this problem with this old thing

02:39:33   that works just fine by making a new thing

02:39:35   that is better but more complicated.

02:39:38   And we're saying it's better,

02:39:40   'cause in some ways it is better.

02:39:41   In some ways it's more advanced.

02:39:43   Maybe it's wireless, maybe it allows software control

02:39:45   where there wasn't software control before.

02:39:47   Whatever the case, that's what's so compelling

02:39:49   about these things.

02:39:50   They are better in many big ways,

02:39:53   but they also get worse in a number of big ways

02:39:56   that we tend to gloss over or minimize.

02:39:58   Like, oh, yeah, you can't just pull anything in anymore,

02:40:00   now you gotta do this pairing dance.

02:40:02   Or you can't actually, this button is never gonna ever

02:40:04   feel like a button again.

02:40:05   There might be now software introduced delays

02:40:07   into when this button feels like a button.

02:40:09   Like, there's like, we do this to so many things

02:40:13   in technology and it, you know, in general,

02:40:17   we do get ourselves ahead and we do make progress,

02:40:21   I think, on the whole.

02:40:23   But I do think it's worth evaluating these things

02:40:26   very critically with lots of scrutiny,

02:40:27   these decisions we make before we say,

02:40:29   yes, it is definitely better,

02:40:31   yes, we need to get rid of this thing,

02:40:32   yes, we need to replace this thing

02:40:33   that has worked fine for 100 years.

02:40:36   - But if you're just applying the blanket

02:40:37   where every time there's any change like that,

02:40:39   you're just always resistant.

02:40:41   You're not good at identifying which ones are the ones,

02:40:43   like I said, when I was speculating

02:40:44   about the non-moving track matter,

02:40:45   which of these ones will you look back on 10 years

02:40:48   and say, "I can't believe I ever used the mechanical one,"

02:40:51   the mechanical one, fierce, barbaric, and broken?

02:40:53   And which of the ones are you gonna say,

02:40:55   "In hindsight, it was a terrible mistake

02:40:57   to move all these things to be solid state or whatever,

02:41:00   and it should have, like the car interior,

02:41:03   you need a certain number of knobs.

02:41:05   If every time they do that move,

02:41:06   your instinct is always to say,

02:41:08   this is a mistake and you're making things worse,

02:41:10   then you're probably not,

02:41:12   the task is to discern,

02:41:15   to look back at your history of judging these things

02:41:17   and see when was I right, when was I wrong,

02:41:19   and how can I apply that to new things

02:41:21   that are like this that are presented for me?

02:41:23   Will this be something that in hindsight

02:41:25   I will look at and say is a no-brainer,

02:41:26   like I think we all agree the floppy drive was?

02:41:29   Or will it be something that we look back on

02:41:30   and say that was a terrible mistake

02:41:31   like so many things in car interiors in the 80s and 90s

02:41:35   that ended up to be terrible ideas.

02:41:36   They said, you know what, let's go back to the old idea

02:41:40   because this new one turned out to be bad.

02:41:41   And that's the challenge of figuring out technology.

02:41:44   Now the headphone port, I feel like because it is a port

02:41:47   and because we have so much past experience with ports,

02:41:49   there is something on the side to say,

02:41:54   this is something we should get rid of.

02:41:56   There's also something on the other side

02:41:57   because unlike all the other parts we talked about,

02:41:58   this is so old and so common.

02:42:00   is way more common than the serial printer port

02:42:03   that was expunged from Macs or whatever, right?

02:42:05   So it's difficult to judge,

02:42:09   but I don't know if this is gonna end up being a mistake.

02:42:13   All I can say is that their presentation of it was,

02:42:15   I think, honest and direct.

02:42:17   And like Casey said, they have reasons.

02:42:19   None of those reasons justify it.

02:42:21   In the end, I think the most important thing is

02:42:23   that Apple thinks there's a better way

02:42:25   to get audio out of your phones.

02:42:27   And they may be wrong,

02:42:28   'cause none of us have tried their new solutions,

02:42:30   but the public will decide in many years

02:42:34   if Apple's things have a rep--

02:42:35   Even if Apple sticks to its guns,

02:42:37   the reputation is, "Oh, I was getting an iPhone,"

02:42:38   but just, you know, I like iPhones,

02:42:40   but just be aware that they're annoying to use with audio.

02:42:43   That will not be a success for Apple

02:42:44   if that's what everyone says about iPhones in five years.

02:42:46   But in five years, if no one mentions this,

02:42:48   and the headphone part is gone from all phones,

02:42:50   I think you have to put a notch

02:42:52   in the win column for Apple on it

02:42:54   and say, "People are cranky.

02:42:56   "There was massive inconvenience,

02:42:58   "just like there was with all the other transitions,

02:43:00   and we got through it.

02:43:01   Right now, I'm gonna give them better than 50% chance

02:43:03   that they're gonna pull this off.

02:43:04   - Oh, I think they are definitely gonna pull this off

02:43:06   because no one else is making iPhones

02:43:08   for people to buy instead.

02:43:10   - I mean, do you think Android phones,

02:43:12   Android phones will drop the headphone port?

02:43:13   That's what I'm saying.

02:43:14   Pull it off as in, eventually, nobody ships floppies

02:43:16   with their PCs anymore.

02:43:17   Although, I shouldn't say that because I'm sure

02:43:19   there's some PC you can buy with a floppy drive.

02:43:21   But anyway.

02:43:21   - I'm pretty sure you could still pay Dell 30 bucks

02:43:23   to put a floppy drive in your new--

02:43:25   - 30 bucks?

02:43:26   Boy, that's too much.

02:43:27   - No one's buying them anymore.

02:43:28   They're a specialty item now.

02:43:30   But anyway, they will succeed if this slowly fades

02:43:34   from all products just like floppy drives did.

02:43:36   - I mean, it will just because they,

02:43:39   well, it'll at least fade from phones

02:43:41   'cause they've now set the standard.

02:43:43   - Will it fade from MacBooks and iPads too?

02:43:45   - I don't know.

02:43:46   I think it certainly says something

02:43:47   that the MacBook has only one other port

02:43:50   and yet they included a headphone port.

02:43:52   - But that MacBook is like really old.

02:43:54   (laughing)

02:43:55   - They deemed that important enough for that.

02:43:57   No, I mean, I guess I'm done arguing this,

02:44:00   but I just, I disagree with the fundamental premise

02:44:05   that this port was doomed, period, and had to be replaced.

02:44:09   I disagree with the time that it had to be replaced now.

02:44:12   I don't think that's courage.

02:44:14   I think that's other factors, that's other attributes,

02:44:16   but I wouldn't call that courage.

02:44:18   And I'm sad that--

02:44:21   - If it's not courage, is it caution?

02:44:24   What word would you use?

02:44:25   It's not caution.

02:44:26   It's not timidness.

02:44:30   Maybe hubris?

02:44:31   Well, yeah, but hubris would be like, maybe hubris would say, "We believe there's a better

02:44:36   way."

02:44:37   To believe that you have such a better way and actually you're mistaken.

02:44:40   You really believe you have a better way than this headphone port that has proven itself

02:44:42   over the line.

02:44:43   I think that's a reasonable word to use, but hubris tends to go hand in hand with courage

02:44:48   and to really believe you have this better way.

02:44:52   There's a fine line between courage and stupidity, I guess.

02:44:55   - And hubris is where that line is drawn, I suppose.

02:44:57   - I mean, the reality is, again, they're gonna be fine.

02:45:00   And we are gonna stop, we're just all gonna accept this

02:45:03   as normal and stop talking about it in like a week.

02:45:05   It's gonna be fine.

02:45:07   But I do think we've lost something here,

02:45:10   and I don't think this was necessarily the right decision.

02:45:12   I think this was a decision made

02:45:15   that's more in Apple's interest

02:45:16   than its customers' interest.

02:45:18   It's making the product worse for Apple's interests.

02:45:20   - Oh, I disagree.

02:45:22   So I understand that there are a lot of people

02:45:26   that are not living the fancy Bluetooth lifestyle.

02:45:30   Erin, in her car, does not have a Bluetooth connection.

02:45:34   I get that.

02:45:35   But at some point we have to say,

02:45:38   enough is enough, this is the future.

02:45:39   And they, Apple, if we believe them,

02:45:42   and if we take them at face value,

02:45:44   they have fixed all of the common complaints about Bluetooth

02:45:47   or they were never a problem in the first damn place.

02:45:49   - With a whole bunch of asterisks.

02:45:51   I don't think so. So look at the people, look at the things everyone complains and moans about when it comes to Bluetooth.

02:45:58   Oh, you have to charge it. Oh, now I have to worry about charging because, oh, life is so difficult and I have to worry about charging.

02:46:03   Oh, well, look at-- you get three hours of charge on the AirPods for 15 minutes.

02:46:11   Like, I could go and use the restroom in more time than it takes for these things to charge and give me three hours of charge.

02:46:19   How long are you spending in the restroom? I'm speaking facetious, but my point is that like include a shower

02:46:24   He dropped his phone on the toilet. He had to fish it out

02:46:27   I was thinking about at work like the point is you can do you can go and talk to a friend at work in

02:46:37   15 minutes and next thing you know your your earbud your air air pods are charged

02:46:44   So I don't believe and if you find that charging is that frickin difficult? Oh, come on

02:46:49   I don't see why that's a problem at all and

02:46:52   so

02:46:54   Pairing that it has been fixed with the air pods and if it's fixed with the air pods and fixed with all these beat headphones

02:47:00   Beats headphones it you have to assume that this is going to trickle down to other devices and other

02:47:07   Manufacturers probably through an MFI program. It will probably be a common thing

02:47:13   Oh, just like the battery case trickle down all the fancy integration that has with the phone that other battery cases can't do

02:47:19   - Yeah, but I don't view that as an

02:47:21   Apple to Apple's comparison at all.

02:47:22   - Oh, I think it's very much so.

02:47:24   I think Apple is very much okay with making standards

02:47:29   and things and extending things that its own products

02:47:33   get special treatment in the system and get more

02:47:37   capabilities or better capabilities

02:47:39   than what third party stuff can do.

02:47:41   I would not at all expect Apple to share the abilities

02:47:45   of this new W1 Bluetooth chipset that's in these things

02:47:49   and all the various software integrations

02:47:51   with pairing it with the quick little window

02:47:53   and syncing your pair progress

02:47:55   between all your different devices.

02:47:56   I would never expect that to come to anything else

02:47:58   that is not an Apple branded headphone.

02:48:01   - I don't know about that.

02:48:02   I give that a reasonable chance that they'll do that

02:48:03   just because, I mean, obviously they'll charge you for it.

02:48:06   They'll make money off it.

02:48:07   It'll be more than just license fee

02:48:09   because this is an Apple designed chip

02:48:11   that you'll probably have to license from them.

02:48:12   But I don't think it's likely

02:48:14   because that tends not to be the thing out,

02:48:16   but I think it's within the realm of possibility

02:48:17   because there are a lot of, again,

02:48:20   if this pairing thing works, we're just assuming it does,

02:48:22   but if it really is as good as they say,

02:48:24   it's kind of in Apple's interest

02:48:28   to have as many products as possible

02:48:31   that all only work with their things.

02:48:33   So I'm gonna wait and see on that one.

02:48:35   It really just depends on how much money

02:48:37   they think there is or should they even bother.

02:48:38   'Cause like, yeah, there's an accessory market for it,

02:48:40   but we shouldn't bother 'cause Bluetooth fills that need.

02:48:42   But if there's a lot of interest

02:48:44   that doesn't cost them a lot of money to license these chips?

02:48:46   You know, we'll say the AirPods aren't even shipping yet,

02:48:48   so who knows what the, maybe the limitation

02:48:50   is the new W1 chip or whatever.

02:48:51   So it could be that W1 isn't licensed, but the W5 is.

02:48:56   But it all depends on how successful this is

02:48:58   and how successful the AirPods are

02:48:59   and how successful Apple is at convincing people

02:49:04   that they really do have a better way

02:49:06   for you to get audio out of your phone

02:49:07   than to plug it into the headphone port.

02:49:09   - Yeah, so they've done batteries and charging

02:49:14   as well as you possibly can in the year of 2016.

02:49:17   They've done pairing from everything we've been told and taking them at face value as

02:49:21   well as you can in 2016.

02:49:23   Importantly, because you were right in calling me out on my love of my Bluetooth headphones

02:49:27   at work, to be fair, I never ever pair those things with anything else, and it's a friggin'

02:49:32   nightmare if I go to do that.

02:49:34   But with the AirPods, that's been fixed.

02:49:37   And apparently it's easy as pie and uses iCloud, which is really scary.

02:49:42   As soon as you pair with any of your devices, like freaking magic, all of your devices are

02:49:47   paired.

02:49:48   So, if we believe that iCloud is magical.

02:49:50   So that's been fixed.

02:49:51   The switching has been fixed, the pairing has been fixed.

02:49:54   I kid you not, I don't ever see latency on my really crappy $20 Bluetooth headphones

02:50:01   as long as I'm not in Chrome.

02:50:03   If I'm in Chrome, it's latency city.

02:50:05   I'll be the first to tell you.

02:50:07   on Safari, on QuickTime, on Preview, on QuickLook, anything else, it's fine.

02:50:14   I never get disconnected because my arm is in the way.

02:50:18   I can walk like 20, 30 feet away.

02:50:20   I'm still connected.

02:50:21   I can still listen to music or podcasts or what have you.

02:50:24   I don't see how latency is an issue.

02:50:27   I don't see how any of this is an issue.

02:50:30   And okay, the one thing you can come back to and say is, "Well, what we had was fine."

02:50:36   Okay, I guess it was fine.

02:50:39   And if you want to continue to have that thing that was fine, use the freaking adapter.

02:50:45   But in the end of the day, Apple wanted to make a phone that was the same size, that

02:50:50   was a design constraint for better or worse.

02:50:54   And I'm getting dragged over the coals in the chat because, "Oh, we could have just

02:50:58   made it bigger and added space for the for the headphone port sure they could

02:51:02   have but for better or worse bet of good right or bad wrong or indifferent doesn't

02:51:08   matter the point of the matter is they wanted to keep the thing the same size

02:51:12   and in order to do that and make the improvements they wanted they had to

02:51:19   ditch the headphone port it says it in this bud fees but buzz feed article they

02:51:23   They had to do it.

02:51:24   And so...

02:51:25   - Oh, no.

02:51:26   You're gonna get on the MacBook One argument again.

02:51:27   - It actually kind of doesn't say that, by the way.

02:51:30   - They shouldn't have gone.

02:51:32   They didn't have to.

02:51:34   They could have made room.

02:51:35   There was room in there.

02:51:37   They could have gotten room out of it somehow.

02:51:39   They did it with all the other phones.

02:51:40   They could do it again.

02:51:42   Maybe they said it in a BuzzFeed article, but on stage, they shied away from that.

02:51:44   Because like I said, there is something where the headphone port was, and that something

02:51:48   is essential.

02:51:49   If you were to cut it out with an X-Acto knife, the phone will not function anymore.

02:51:52   But that's again true with the MacBook One.

02:51:54   If you had designed it from the beginning, as they did with the 6s and the 6, you can

02:51:57   find room for it, surprisingly.

02:51:59   That's not the whole thing.

02:52:00   I think one of the angles on it that they mentioned in passing that we haven't really

02:52:04   talked about too much is the idea that it's a uni-tasker, that that port only serves one

02:52:08   purpose as opposed to the multitasking lightning port that can do all sorts of different things.

02:52:12   There's a plus and minus there in that multi-purpose means like, "Oh, but what if we want to charge

02:52:16   at the same time?

02:52:17   It's multi-purpose and it's just one port.

02:52:18   Maybe they should have three lightning ports in the bottom and then they'll solve this

02:52:20   problem, right? But, you know, there are other reasons to think that, like, you know, if

02:52:26   you don't believe that this thing was inevitably doomed. It's hard to let go of something that's

02:52:29   been around for so long because it's so compatible and it's so ubiquitous. But really, in the

02:52:35   grand scheme of things, holes in computers that only perform one function and that function

02:52:39   never changes over the years, they don't have a good life. Like, you know, we want ports

02:52:44   to do multiple things. At this point, we have a port that, like, does power and runs monitors

02:52:49   and you can run Ethernet over all in the same port.

02:52:51   Obviously, if you just have one of those ports, it's crappy, but there are so many trends

02:52:58   moving that direction.

02:52:59   There's also minuses for wires that I feel personally.

02:53:03   When I have my thing plugged in and there's a wire snaking from my arm, I do get it caught

02:53:09   on things.

02:53:10   And we've all had the thing where the ear pods get yanked out of your ears, and I am

02:53:14   instantly infuriated by that sensation.

02:53:16   I hate it, and that's why I've been looking into these wireless things.

02:53:20   Like, I'm not saying this justifies it, but there is another side.

02:53:23   And everything that I've mentioned does not benefit Apple, except for the part where I

02:53:26   pay them $160 for the little ear pods.

02:53:29   But there are consumer benefits on the other side of it.

02:53:31   So at this point, I'm still willing to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, which is why

02:53:34   I'm willing to even try this phone out.

02:53:37   If I try the phone out and it turns out their wireless solution is crap and I miss my headphone

02:53:42   I'll be the first to say it, but right now I'm willing to give it a go.

02:53:47   All right, let's move on.

02:53:50   Performance was the last major category they had where they talked about the A10, which

02:53:56   is the new chip.

02:53:57   It is four core.

02:54:00   There are two high performance cores, which are 40% faster than the outgoing A9, and two

02:54:06   high efficiency cores, which run at 20% of the power of the other two cores.

02:54:11   And that's a really interesting and really clever way of trying to squeeze a little more

02:54:16   juice, or a little more runtime I should say, out of these phones.

02:54:20   And it reminds me a lot to channel neutral.

02:54:22   It reminds me a lot of the, what is it, the North Star that was the first to shut down

02:54:27   cylinders if you didn't need a bunch of power as you were like driving on the highway for

02:54:31   example and just maintaining your speed.

02:54:33   So say you had this humongous V8 in your Cadillac, the thing would just shut down half of the

02:54:40   V8 in order to save yourself a little gas.

02:54:43   Maybe it wasn't the North Star, maybe it was a different one, but that same idea happened

02:54:48   all over the place and still goes on from time to time.

02:54:50   And it doesn't go on from time to time, it is everywhere.

02:54:53   Cylinder deactivation is like a standard feature of every car with an engine that's too big

02:54:56   for it nowadays.

02:54:57   Yep, exactly.

02:54:58   But sounds like it's really good.

02:55:00   The performance improvements are impressive as always.

02:55:05   The GPU, apparently 6-core, 50% faster than what's in the A9.

02:55:10   Three times what's in the A8 that's in the 6 models.

02:55:14   And most importantly to me, apparently we've found plenty of other things to talk about

02:55:18   this episode, but most importantly to me, they said you will get two hours more than

02:55:23   a 6s when you're using the 7, roughly, and one hour more on a 7+ than you got on the

02:55:31   6s+.

02:55:32   So we are actually seeing an increase in battery life, even without making the device bigger,

02:55:37   which I am super on board with.

02:55:39   I am genuinely stoked about this.

02:55:41   And in fact, I was really debating going Plus Club this year because of that two-camera

02:55:46   system like we were talking about earlier, and also because of the improved battery life.

02:55:51   And granted, I would still get a lot more battery life if I went Plus Club at the 7.

02:55:54   But the fact that I'm, what I, I feel like I'm on the ragged edge of comfortable on battery

02:56:00   life on my 6s plus and this is going to give me another two hours in theory, well that

02:56:04   should be great. I should be good to go outside of like conferences and then I'll use the

02:56:08   super proprietary humpback if I need to. But I am all on board. I think this is all great

02:56:15   things and not terribly unexpected outside of the battery stuff, but all good things

02:56:19   all around. Well the battery stuff we expected too. This is exactly what we talked about.

02:56:22   If they use the same case for three years in a row and the system on a chip becomes

02:56:25   more efficient and this is before we even like this is better than you even thought

02:56:28   because not only does the system on a chip become more efficient from a new process,

02:56:30   but they have the little, the low-power sort of limp mode things, which is a very clever

02:56:34   design. I'm not sure if other phones are doing that, but I think it's mostly unprecedented

02:56:38   in desktop CPUs where you would have non-uniform cores, like you'd have these wussy cores

02:56:42   that are just like one third of the die area, but otherwise presumably fully functional,

02:56:48   and you would use them when you need to instead of just power cycling things or disabling

02:56:52   cores. Anyways. Well, there's the whole, there's the ARM

02:56:54   big dot little thing, but I think this is just one of those implementations. But I don't

02:56:58   know of any other devices that use it in the phone or computer space.

02:57:01   Yeah, and it'll only get better as they, I'm assuming the A11 and so on and so forth,

02:57:05   get better about like being able to switch between them faster and getting smarter about

02:57:09   when to use them and all sorts of other stuff. So anyway, we get the benefit of same size

02:57:13   case, bigger battery because there's slightly more room or maybe even the same size battery,

02:57:18   lower power system on a chip equals more battery. And I was saying like 10-15%, you know, I

02:57:22   I can't do the math in my head, but two hours,

02:57:24   that is, you know, if that is even remotely close to true,

02:57:28   that is something that everybody will notice,

02:57:30   and it is almost exactly, I mean, Mark,

02:57:33   are you asking for double battery life?

02:57:34   But I think-- - Oh, no, I was asking

02:57:36   for four or five times more battery life.

02:57:38   That's what I mean. - Well, you know what I mean.

02:57:39   Like, I mean, we have to, you know, again,

02:57:40   I could be carrying around a bar of soap,

02:57:42   but if that two-hour figure is remotely close to true,

02:57:44   I am really happy about that.

02:57:46   As someone who doesn't have battery problems on my phone,

02:57:48   because I feel like that is the substantial

02:57:50   battery improvement we're talking about,

02:57:50   Now granted, again, they got it by using the same size case for three years.

02:57:54   You can probably kiss that goodbye for next year's super skinny phone, but enjoy it

02:57:58   while you can.

02:57:59   - Yeah, I mean, this is great news if it works out the way they say with real world use,

02:58:05   and it might.

02:58:06   Apple is, they have kind of a mixed record of adhering to their benchmarks from reality.

02:58:14   Usually if you do the things that are in their benchmarks, usually they're actually pretty

02:58:17   pretty good, but the question is more like whether real world use is well reflected by

02:58:22   the benchmarks.

02:58:24   In this case, what we've seen for most of their most recent advances in battery life

02:58:31   in devices, phones and laptops, the vast majority of recent advances have not really been in

02:58:37   reducing the amount of power while you're using it heavily.

02:58:41   It's mostly been in reducing power used while it's pretty much idle or doing very, very

02:58:46   simple tasks. And that's what this most likely is. You know, because of that new asymmetric

02:58:51   core design where you have the low power cores and the high power cores, that's awesome.

02:58:56   Because of that, that's going to be most likely a savings only in like idle and low power

02:59:02   states. I bet when it's in the high power states, it's still going to kill your battery

02:59:06   just as much as it did before, maybe even more now.

02:59:08   - Well, I don't know. Like, here's the reason I have some question on that. Because if the

02:59:14   WIMPi cores are enough to accomplish the task.

02:59:18   For instance, imagine there's a task that uses a lot of GPU,

02:59:21   but you need just enough CPU

02:59:23   that you can use the WIMPi cores.

02:59:24   You'll still get the savings

02:59:25   when quote unquote working flat out.

02:59:27   You know what I mean?

02:59:28   Like I'm imagining, say there's a game that you can play.

02:59:31   The game is like two years old

02:59:33   and you can run the whole game just using the WIMPi cores.

02:59:36   You will see a huge savings

02:59:38   just playing that game flat out.

02:59:39   I don't know if we're close to that point.

02:59:40   I don't know what the threshold is,

02:59:42   but because we've come so far,

02:59:44   you show that graph and everything,

02:59:45   those two quote unquote wimpy cores

02:59:47   are like faster than the iPhone 5 or whatever.

02:59:50   Like I don't know what the actual specs on them are,

02:59:52   but like there is some past phone

02:59:53   that we used to think was fast

02:59:55   that these little wimpy cores are faster than.

02:59:57   So I feel like this one is more like

02:59:58   you're driving most of the time on four cylinders