ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► It's been a long time.

00:00:01 ◼   ► - It has been a surprisingly long time.

00:00:03 ◼   ► It was like--

00:00:04 ◼   ► - Like two weeks ago, right?

00:00:05 ◼   ► - Yes, it was the 18th, so it's two weeks in a day.

00:00:09 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:00:09 ◼   ► - Man, I miss you guys.

00:00:11 ◼   ► - A lot has happened in the meantime.

00:00:13 ◼   ► Chiefly, that I determined that I like the beach now.

00:00:16 ◼   ► - You're funny how that is.

00:00:17 ◼   ► We should actually examine that.

00:00:20 ◼   ► - How old are you now that it took so long?

00:00:22 ◼   ► - Whoa, whoa, whoa, before you beat up on Marco,

00:00:25 ◼   ► I will tell you that I just discovered I liked the beach

00:00:27 ◼   ► about two to three years, maybe three years ago.

00:00:29 ◼   ► So apparently Marco and I are equally slow on this realization.

00:00:33 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with you guys.

00:00:35 ◼   ► So how many times did you have to rent a house on the beach for a few days to like it?

00:00:41 ◼   ► I actually would say the first time we did that I liked it, but, but, it is important to note that I was well into adulthood at this point.

00:00:50 ◼   ► And I don't remember, was it with you guys I was discussing this? It might have been on the post-show.

00:00:55 ◼   ► But the pop-up, what do they call them? Like awnings? Not awning.

00:00:59 ◼   ► Shoot. They call them umbrellas. You push the middle and the... No, tent. The little tent thingies.

00:01:05 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like a tent, but it's just the roof part of the tent. So it's like a big square

00:01:09 ◼   ► that's like... Yeah, we saw a picture of your thing that you should never ever bring on a beach.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Why? Because that's not a thing designed... That's for like having like a catered outdoor wedding.

00:01:18 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, totally. Not for bringing on the beach. Instant canopy is

00:01:23 ◼   ► is apparently what it's officially called.

00:01:25 ◼   ► - Do not bring it to the beach.

00:01:26 ◼   ► - You know, if you want a lot of shade from the sun,

00:01:29 ◼   ► which is what I want when I go to the beach,

00:01:32 ◼   ► that's a perfect way to do it.

00:01:33 ◼   ► - Well, but as discussed last time,

00:01:34 ◼   ► those tend to have a pretty poor shade to weight ratio.

00:01:38 ◼   ► They're awfully heavy for the amount of shade they provide.

00:01:41 ◼   ► We had a very large kind of extended umbrella.

00:01:46 ◼   ► So like the idea, you know, you put it like diagonally down,

00:01:48 ◼   ► so like the pole is running diagonally

00:01:50 ◼   ► with one end in the sand,

00:01:51 ◼   ► and then the other side just kind of resting on the sand.

00:01:54 ◼   ► But it has like extra long flaps on two sides,

00:01:57 ◼   ► so it kind of makes like a tent,

00:01:59 ◼   ► but that's open on one side,

00:02:01 ◼   ► so you get a ton of shade

00:02:02 ◼   ► in the total weight of an umbrella.

00:02:04 ◼   ► So that was pretty awesome.

00:02:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, that works out nicely.

00:02:08 ◼   ► I've seen things like that.

00:02:09 ◼   ► So yeah, so to go back a half step,

00:02:11 ◼   ► so the first time we rented a house,

00:02:12 ◼   ► well, that I participated in anyway,

00:02:15 ◼   ► we had one of these instant canopies.

00:02:17 ◼   ► The point is not as much the instant canopy,

00:02:20 ◼   ► just the fact that there's shade. However you decide to get your shade, umbrella, tenty thing,

00:02:25 ◼   ► instant canopy, doesn't matter. There's shade. Indoors. So I had shade. I had, I think the first

00:02:32 ◼   ► year I went, I read Ready Player One. And don't listen to what Jon says about Ready Player One.

00:02:36 ◼   ► It's a great book. I also had booze. And that combination really worked out nicely for me. And

00:02:43 ◼   ► And ever since then, I've found that if I have shade

00:02:46 ◼   ► and a book or a iOS device with a internet connection,

00:02:51 ◼   ► and I don't even need booze anymore, although it helps.

00:02:55 ◼   ► It actually is not too bad an experience.

00:02:57 ◼   ► So what turned the corner for you, Marco?

00:02:59 ◼   ► What made you decide this is not so bad?

00:03:02 ◼   ► - So last year, we went to the same place, Fire Island.

00:03:05 ◼   ► We spent five days there.

00:03:08 ◼   ► So part of the problem was that I was really sick

00:03:11 ◼   ► for most of that time.

00:03:12 ◼   ► so I wasn't really able to fully enjoy the time.

00:03:15 ◼   ► This year, we were there for seven or eight days,

00:03:18 ◼   ► eight days, and I was not sick.

00:03:20 ◼   ► So even last year, the shorter time

00:03:22 ◼   ► and being fairly uncomfortable most of the time,

00:03:25 ◼   ► I still enjoyed it last year.

00:03:27 ◼   ► I still enjoyed the place, I enjoyed walking around,

00:03:29 ◼   ► because while I don't really care

00:03:31 ◼   ► for the actual beach itself very much,

00:03:35 ◼   ► I do like the ocean breeze, the air.

00:03:39 ◼   ► I do like the beach town, and in Fire Island,

00:03:42 ◼   ► It's pretty awesome because you just kind of walk around everywhere.

00:03:44 ◼   ► There's no cars and everything's really kind of tightly packed on this little tiny strip

00:03:47 ◼   ► of island so everything's very walkable.

00:03:49 ◼   ► So I really enjoyed that part of it last year but just it was hard to really enjoy the whole

00:03:55 ◼   ► trip because of my condition.

00:03:57 ◼   ► But this year I spent a little more time on the actual beach this year and I kind of learned

00:04:02 ◼   ► how to make it work for me a little bit.

00:04:04 ◼   ► I still don't love like being in the sun or going in the water or eating seafood but I've

00:04:10 ◼   ► I've found ways to enjoy myself on the actual beach.

00:04:14 ◼   ► And then because we were there for longer

00:04:15 ◼   ► and I was feeling better this year,

00:04:17 ◼   ► I greatly enjoyed the rest of the town

00:04:19 ◼   ► and the week and the environment as well.

00:04:21 ◼   ► So basically, I really enjoyed it quite a bit.

00:04:25 ◼   ► And like eight days was enough time.

00:04:28 ◼   ► I feel like if you're somewhere for like three to five days,

00:04:33 ◼   ► you kind of are still in vacation,

00:04:35 ◼   ► like sightseeing kind of mode,

00:04:36 ◼   ► like active mode the whole time.

00:04:38 ◼   ► And there's a certain threshold,

00:04:39 ◼   ► I think I passed this trip, where if you're somewhere

00:04:42 ◼   ► for long enough, you kinda start living there.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:04:46 ◼   ► - It does, actually, I do know what you're saying.

00:04:48 ◼   ► - Like, you kinda get kicked into a different mode,

00:04:50 ◼   ► where like, okay, now this is just what it's like

00:04:51 ◼   ► to live here, basically, for a short time,

00:04:53 ◼   ► as opposed to being active, doing stuff,

00:04:57 ◼   ► vacation mode, you know, the whole time.

00:04:59 ◼   ► So I got a brief sense of that living mode,

00:05:02 ◼   ► and I really enjoyed it.

00:05:04 ◼   ► - So what made the beach itself bearable, though?

00:05:07 ◼   ► I had said that in the past having booze in a book,

00:05:10 ◼   ► and I should actually elaborate that having Declan there,

00:05:13 ◼   ► particularly when he's in a positive mood,

00:05:15 ◼   ► which is usually, that's also just tremendously fun.

00:05:17 ◼   ► What turned the corner for you on the beach specifically?

00:05:20 ◼   ► - Well, so part of it was that.

00:05:22 ◼   ► Part of it was that the entire family really enjoys it.

00:05:25 ◼   ► So everyone's happy, everyone's having fun.

00:05:27 ◼   ► There's always stuff to do, nobody's ever bored.

00:05:29 ◼   ► So that's really nice.

00:05:30 ◼   ► But also, I just kind of figured out

00:05:32 ◼   ► how to sit in the shade for a little bit.

00:05:35 ◼   ► This year, I've kind of,

00:05:37 ◼   ► I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, it's probably some of both,

00:05:41 ◼   ► but I'm finally learning how to be able to turn my brain off for more than like 20

00:05:48 ◼   ► minutes at a time.

00:05:49 ◼   ► Like in the sense that I'm able to like relax and not wish I was sitting at a computer

00:05:54 ◼   ► getting stuff done all the time.

00:05:57 ◼   ► And this could be dangerous, like this could go too far and I just never want to work again.

00:06:02 ◼   ► I think I'm going to try to get a better balance of that.

00:06:05 ◼   ► And so I kind of got that this year, where I,

00:06:09 ◼   ► like last year, because I was pretty sick

00:06:11 ◼   ► and it was a shorter time and I was right in the middle

00:06:14 ◼   ► of trying to write piece.

00:06:16 ◼   ► So last year I actually worked a lot on that trip.

00:06:18 ◼   ► I mostly stayed back at the house

00:06:19 ◼   ► and everyone else went to the beach

00:06:20 ◼   ► and I mainly just worked on my laptop.

00:06:23 ◼   ► This year, I brought all my work with me.

00:06:26 ◼   ► I thought I'd get a lot done

00:06:28 ◼   ► and I got almost nothing done.

00:06:29 ◼   ► They would like, shockingly little,

00:06:31 ◼   ► considering how much I got done last year versus this year.

00:06:35 ◼   ► So I kind of learned how to take a vacation.

00:06:38 ◼   ► And it was to the point where when I came home,

00:06:40 ◼   ► I really missed it, which has never, ever happened

00:06:43 ◼   ► with any vacation I've ever taken.

00:06:45 ◼   ► - Hmm, that's awesome.

00:06:45 ◼   ► - Every vacation I ever take, when I get home,

00:06:47 ◼   ► like, oh, thank God I'm home, I can get back to everything.

00:06:49 ◼   ► This time I was like, oh, I miss vacation.

00:06:52 ◼   ► Anyway, so I'm broken forever, how are you guys?

00:06:55 ◼   ► - Well, I'm waiting for Jon to completely eviscerate us

00:06:59 ◼   ► for having just realized that the beach is a thing.

00:07:02 ◼   ► and you've been distressingly quiet, Jon.

00:07:05 ◼   ► So tell us, what do you have to say about the beach?

00:07:08 ◼   ► - I love that it's extra insulting

00:07:10 ◼   ► that I'm also going to Fire Island,

00:07:11 ◼   ► which I'm pretty sure is where Jon has gone

00:07:13 ◼   ► for beaches for years.

00:07:14 ◼   ► - No, I don't go to Fire Island,

00:07:16 ◼   ► but I go to other places in Long Island.

00:07:18 ◼   ► The only thing I think I have to add

00:07:19 ◼   ► is that I have not wanted to work and love the beach

00:07:21 ◼   ► since I was in single digit stages.

00:07:24 ◼   ► So way ahead of you.

00:07:26 ◼   ► You're just now getting to the point

00:07:27 ◼   ► where you don't want to work and love the beach?

00:07:29 ◼   ► Congratulations.

00:07:31 ◼   ► - Pretty much the rest of the human race.

00:07:34 ◼   ► It's way ahead of you on that curve.

00:07:36 ◼   ► That's what everybody wants to do is not work

00:07:38 ◼   ► and go to the beach and you're just like,

00:07:39 ◼   ► you know what, the beach is fun, working sucks.

00:07:42 ◼   ► - Turns out, I never knew.

00:07:44 ◼   ► - So there's a few ways, actually there's many ways

00:07:47 ◼   ► in which I am a terrible geek by typical geek standards.

00:07:51 ◼   ► One of those things is I don't like anime or Star Trek

00:07:55 ◼   ► or fantasy, like Lord of the Rings type stuff.

00:07:58 ◼   ► - You don't know you don't like anime.

00:07:59 ◼   ► - Okay, and so anyway, I think in this way, John,

00:08:04 ◼   ► I think you're a bad geek.

00:08:05 ◼   ► I think most geeks have the problem that I've had forever,

00:08:08 ◼   ► which is not really being able to turn my brain off

00:08:11 ◼   ► for more than like a day or two without getting restless.

00:08:14 ◼   ► - No, that's not a geek thing, that's a workaholic thing.

00:08:17 ◼   ► There's a difference.

00:08:18 ◼   ► - Yep, concur.

00:08:19 ◼   ► - Is it?

00:08:20 ◼   ► Well, I bet there's a lot of overlap there,

00:08:22 ◼   ► 'cause like, it's not necessarily

00:08:23 ◼   ► that I want to do specific work,

00:08:26 ◼   ► it's that I want to do some, like I wanna do something.

00:08:29 ◼   ► That's why you're a workaholic.

00:08:31 ◼   ► - But I'm not, 'cause I don't wanna work on boring stuff

00:08:34 ◼   ► to get it done, I wanna work on weird MP3 encoders and stuff.

00:08:37 ◼   ► - Well, you're also bad at relaxing.

00:08:39 ◼   ► When you were describing, oh, I finally got into

00:08:41 ◼   ► the vacation mode where it's like you're living there.

00:08:43 ◼   ► It's like, no, you just finally relaxed.

00:08:45 ◼   ► And it's true.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Merlin talks about this too, how he goes on a vacation,

00:08:48 ◼   ► takes him three days to get into whatever mode.

00:08:51 ◼   ► He has another weird phrase, but it's just like,

00:08:53 ◼   ► you have to learn how to relax, and that's another skill

00:08:55 ◼   ► that I've always been very good at.

00:08:57 ◼   ► I'm really good at relaxing.

00:08:58 ◼   ► I'm an expert at relaxing.

00:08:59 ◼   ► In fact, I think most people are.

00:09:01 ◼   ► Most people, if you said,

00:09:03 ◼   ► "Starting now, sit on your butt and do nothing,"

00:09:05 ◼   ► they just descend into a little puddle and be like, "Ah."

00:09:08 ◼   ► But some other people, it takes a while to sort of,

00:09:10 ◼   ► to untie the 700 twisty ties that are around their,

00:09:14 ◼   ► invisible twisty ties that are around their brain

00:09:16 ◼   ► at all times and just slowly unwind them and turn and turn.

00:09:20 ◼   ► And then finally they release and you can go, "Ah."

00:09:22 ◼   ► And then you go home after the vacation's over.

00:09:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:26 ◼   ► - And I did finally,

00:09:27 ◼   ► I was thinking of you, Jon, much of the time,

00:09:29 ◼   ► because as I was trying to manage having a big camera

00:09:33 ◼   ► and my phone at the beach, of course, sand is everywhere.

00:09:37 ◼   ► Sand in my pockets, you know what else

00:09:39 ◼   ► is in people's pockets?

00:09:40 ◼   ► Sand.

00:09:41 ◼   ► I was thinking of you and your quotes from this show,

00:09:44 ◼   ► going back years, every time I was at the beach,

00:09:47 ◼   ► doing something.

00:09:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, so how did your big fancy camera fare

00:09:51 ◼   ► in the hostile environment of the beach?

00:09:53 ◼   ► - Very well, actually.

00:09:54 ◼   ► I did, funnily enough, I did appreciate

00:09:58 ◼   ► when I had the slightly longer lens on it.

00:10:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:10:02 ◼   ► - Funny how that is.

00:10:03 ◼   ► - I brought the 35 and the 55 primes.

00:10:06 ◼   ► And the 35 pictures were decent,

00:10:10 ◼   ► but I was happier in general with the 55 pictures.

00:10:13 ◼   ► And I got a lot of amazing pictures.

00:10:15 ◼   ► And just destroyed my laptop trying to process them

00:10:18 ◼   ► in Lightroom on battery, which is hilarious.

00:10:21 ◼   ► - So how far were you out in the water

00:10:23 ◼   ► with the expensive camera, like ankles, knees?

00:10:27 ◼   ► - Well, I was still in the wave zone,

00:10:30 ◼   ► so not necessarily a fixed depth,

00:10:32 ◼   ► but the closest I would let it get

00:10:35 ◼   ► was the bottom of my shorts.

00:10:38 ◼   ► Once I was that deep, I would hold the camera

00:10:40 ◼   ► up above my head if there was a big wave coming in,

00:10:43 ◼   ► or like, and there were, I think twice

00:10:45 ◼   ► it got a little bit of splash on it,

00:10:48 ◼   ► but otherwise it was pretty good.

00:10:49 ◼   ► - I think for someone with not a lot of beach experience,

00:10:51 ◼   ► I don't think you realize exactly how close you were

00:10:54 ◼   ► that entire time to destroying your camera

00:10:56 ◼   ► because you're like, oh, you know,

00:10:57 ◼   ► if the wave comes, I'll hold it up.

00:10:58 ◼   ► But you don't realize that like,

00:11:00 ◼   ► all it takes is one false move

00:11:02 ◼   ► or not paying attention for two seconds

00:11:04 ◼   ► in one wave that's a little bit bigger than the other ones

00:11:05 ◼   ► to put you on your butt and put that camera in the water.

00:11:08 ◼   ► So I think you're pretty lucky and pretty brave

00:11:10 ◼   ► to go out even that deep with your camera.

00:11:13 ◼   ► - I think you might be overestimating how deep I was.

00:11:15 ◼   ► It was literally like I was only in like

00:11:17 ◼   ► the wave splash zone and the most I got was

00:11:21 ◼   ► if the wave at maximum splash was tall enough

00:11:25 ◼   ► to get the bottom of my shorts wet.

00:11:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, those waves did look pretty small though

00:11:28 ◼   ► in the few pictures you had, but yeah,

00:11:30 ◼   ► if the water is touching your bathing suit,

00:11:33 ◼   ► you think, oh, I'm fine, right?

00:11:34 ◼   ► Especially because when the big one comes,

00:11:36 ◼   ► so much water will go out that it'll just be

00:11:38 ◼   ► barely touching your ankles and you'll take two steps in

00:11:39 ◼   ► and the big one comes and you're not paying attention,

00:11:41 ◼   ► spoosh.

00:11:42 ◼   ► Anyway, I'm glad you dodged the bullet

00:11:45 ◼   ► and managed to keep your camera alive

00:11:49 ◼   ► and take some good pictures.

00:11:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I really got a lot of great pictures

00:11:51 ◼   ► and I spent a lot of time just picking through them

00:11:54 ◼   ► and lightly processing them, posting them on Instagram.

00:11:57 ◼   ► I finally started, I think now I'm kind of getting

00:11:59 ◼   ► what vacation is about.

00:12:00 ◼   ► Funnily enough though, every time I take a vacation

00:12:03 ◼   ► where I have my giant 15 inch MacBook Pro,

00:12:07 ◼   ► I am so happy I have that 15 inch MacBook Pro

00:12:11 ◼   ► and not anything smaller or weaker.

00:12:13 ◼   ► 'Cause the things I do on vacation,

00:12:15 ◼   ► either I need nothing from it

00:12:17 ◼   ► or I need all the power and screen space

00:12:20 ◼   ► I can get. So my previously stated plans about maybe going to a 13 inch MacBook Pro when

00:12:25 ◼   ► the new ones come out, those plans are out the window and I'm going to either keep what

00:12:29 ◼   ► I have or get the new 15.

00:12:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, I honestly don't understand how anyone who doesn't travel for a living has anything

00:12:37 ◼   ► smaller than a 15 inch laptop. Like, I typically do not use my work laptop at home and it's

00:12:46 ◼   ► clamshelled at work and whether or not you think that's a smart choice, whatever.

00:12:49 ◼   ► But the point is I very rarely use the screen on the laptop but every time I do

00:12:55 ◼   ► I couldn't agree with you more. I don't understand how anyone could do anything

00:13:00 ◼   ► productive with less real estate. Again if you're like traveling professionally

00:13:03 ◼   ► totally get that but for regular humans, oh 15 all the way.

00:13:07 ◼   ► Oh yeah I mean it and like I tweeted the other day I pissed everybody off where I

00:13:13 ◼   ► I said basically like, as I'm using my laptop,

00:13:16 ◼   ► like the things I want are better battery and faster.

00:13:20 ◼   ► Thing I don't really care about is make it like 15% lighter,

00:13:24 ◼   ► I think so, whatever measure I used.

00:13:27 ◼   ► And this got a lot of people angry,

00:13:29 ◼   ► 'cause they were saying, I walk with mine to work every day,

00:13:32 ◼   ► blah, blah, blah, and I would love for it to be 15% lighter.

00:13:35 ◼   ► And I get that, 'cause I used to do that too,

00:13:36 ◼   ► I did that for years.

00:13:37 ◼   ► The majority of the time I worked at Tumblr,

00:13:39 ◼   ► I was walking with a laptop in a bag pretty far every day,

00:13:42 ◼   ► and most of the time it was a 15 inch.

00:13:44 ◼   ► And this was back when the 15 inch was like 5.7 pounds,

00:13:47 ◼   ► now I think they're 4.5 and they're probably

00:13:48 ◼   ► about to get lighter.

00:13:49 ◼   ► So like, I know what that's like.

00:13:53 ◼   ► In fact, much of that time I also had an SLR

00:13:55 ◼   ► and a couple lenses in the bag with me as well,

00:13:57 ◼   ► which was not kind on my shoulders.

00:13:59 ◼   ► So I get that, if you're walking with it back and forth,

00:14:02 ◼   ► that does, you know, the total weight of it does matter.

00:14:06 ◼   ► However, when you get down to like,

00:14:08 ◼   ► you have like already a four and a half

00:14:10 ◼   ► or whatever pound laptop, if the weight savings

00:14:13 ◼   ► brings it down, like, let's say it's a pretty good savings.

00:14:16 ◼   ► Let's say it goes from four and a half pounds

00:14:17 ◼   ► to four pounds.

00:14:19 ◼   ► That's a pretty substantial savings in the world

00:14:20 ◼   ► of like, you know, laptop upgrades, basically.

00:14:23 ◼   ► Suppose they blow it out of the water somehow,

00:14:25 ◼   ► which I think is unrealistic, but let's say they go

00:14:26 ◼   ► to three and a half, so let's say they shave

00:14:28 ◼   ► a whole pound off of it.

00:14:29 ◼   ► Again, I think that's unrealistic.

00:14:31 ◼   ► But if they do that, the total weight of the bag

00:14:34 ◼   ► you're carrying is probably like 15 pounds.

00:14:37 ◼   ► Like, people carry a lot of stuff in their bags.

00:14:38 ◼   ► The bag itself weighs a lot empty.

00:14:41 ◼   ► If you're carrying a power adapter or not,

00:14:42 ◼   ► that's like another almost pound.

00:14:44 ◼   ► People carry so much that if you really, really need

00:14:48 ◼   ► to save half a pound or one pound

00:14:51 ◼   ► in the carry weight of your bag,

00:14:53 ◼   ► there are probably many other ways you can do that.

00:14:55 ◼   ► And if you're carrying enough stuff,

00:14:56 ◼   ► you actually might not quite notice that very much.

00:15:00 ◼   ► So basically, I think people, when they speculate

00:15:04 ◼   ► on how much they need laptop weight savings

00:15:07 ◼   ► in these little increments, I think they might be

00:15:09 ◼   ► overestimating how much they would actually notice that

00:15:12 ◼   ► in practice, how much difference it would actually make

00:15:13 ◼   ► in practice, and ignoring ways that you could save that

00:15:17 ◼   ► in some other way.

00:15:18 ◼   ► So for example, one of the ways I saved weight

00:15:20 ◼   ► when I was walking to and from work with laptops every day

00:15:23 ◼   ► is I just got a second power adapter and kept one at work.

00:15:26 ◼   ► So I never had a power adapter in my bag.

00:15:29 ◼   ► And that alone, this was a 15 inch data,

00:15:31 ◼   ► so that saved like a pound right there, you know?

00:15:34 ◼   ► Simple stuff like that.

00:15:35 ◼   ► And if you carry an iPad, maybe don't carry the keyboard.

00:15:40 ◼   ► There's stuff like that.

00:15:42 ◼   ► There are ways you can either spend a bit of money

00:15:45 ◼   ► to have some redundancy on both ends,

00:15:48 ◼   ► and things like power adapters or accessories,

00:15:50 ◼   ► or just make some tough decisions

00:15:52 ◼   ► about do I really need to carry this thing.

00:15:53 ◼   ► If carry weight's a big problem,

00:15:55 ◼   ► I highly suggest using a backpack and not a messenger bag.

00:15:58 ◼   ► There's lots of other ways you can do this

00:16:00 ◼   ► that will have way larger effects

00:16:02 ◼   ► than if your laptop alone with no other changes

00:16:05 ◼   ► got 15% lighter.

00:16:06 ◼   ► - I agree.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Alright, we should probably do a little bit of follow up

00:16:11 ◼   ► now that we're 20 minutes into the program.

00:16:14 ◼   ► - Just a little.

00:16:14 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:16:17 ◼   ► - I'd like to start with a couple of notes.

00:16:19 ◼   ► First of all, I have returned my 32 gigs of RAM.

00:16:24 ◼   ► I have received 32 replacement gigs of RAM,

00:16:28 ◼   ► and my uptime is currently nine days.

00:16:31 ◼   ► - Are you plugged into the UPS?

00:16:33 ◼   ► - Yes, I am.

00:16:34 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:16:35 ◼   ► and I'm expecting the zzzz.

00:16:37 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:16:38 ◼   ► No, I'm just kidding.

00:16:38 ◼   ► - Are you recording in mauve format?

00:16:40 ◼   ► - I am recording in every frickin' format under this song.

00:16:43 ◼   ► - What color are you recording in?

00:16:44 ◼   ► Are you recording in mauve?

00:16:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:16:47 ◼   ► That's not even how you pronounce the color.

00:16:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:16:50 ◼   ► - Oh my goodness, but anyway,

00:16:53 ◼   ► but so I have nine days uptime so far.

00:16:55 ◼   ► We'll see if it continues.

00:16:57 ◼   ► Of course, now I have several system updates

00:16:59 ◼   ► I've been putting off for my testing purposes,

00:17:01 ◼   ► so please don't hack me.

00:17:03 ◼   ► But, so far so good, as I knock very quietly on wood.

00:17:08 ◼   ► Moving on, I have not yet looked at the Reddit, because I don't really go to Reddit ever,

00:17:15 ◼   ► and I haven't been trolling their mentions because I haven't had the time nor the inclination.

00:17:20 ◼   ► However, if the entire internet isn't beating the piss out of Hello Internet for issuing

00:17:25 ◼   ► an episode on vinyl, then I give up.

00:17:28 ◼   ► Because I paid the price for saying that vinyl may not be an embarrassment for months.

00:17:35 ◼   ► And here it is, they're releasing an entire special episode of Hello Internet on vinyl.

00:17:40 ◼   ► If all of you jerks aren't going after them...

00:17:43 ◼   ► Really?

00:17:44 ◼   ► I didn't even know this.

00:17:45 ◼   ► He's been on vacation.

00:17:46 ◼   ► If all of you jerks aren't going after them like you went after me, then I'm sorely disappointed.

00:17:50 ◼   ► Because they deserve it.

00:17:51 ◼   ► You shouldn't be, because they're doing it as a joke.

00:17:53 ◼   ► Get it?

00:17:54 ◼   ► It's funny.

00:17:55 ◼   ► show where they talk about it, they both, they throw in a few digs at the people who

00:17:59 ◼   ► think vinyl sounds better, haha, those people, what are they thinking, right? Like, so they're

00:18:03 ◼   ► on, they're on the right side there on this whole thing, and the whole idea is that it's

00:18:07 ◼   ► silly and a joke. The entire thing is a joke. So why would people make fun, if they had

00:18:11 ◼   ► released it and said, "Finally, people can listen to our voices in a higher fidelity

00:18:15 ◼   ► format," then people would be on them, believe me, but that's not what they said.

00:18:18 ◼   ► I wonder like how many people who, so this is apparently like extremely sold out now,

00:18:25 ◼   ► how many people who buy this have a way to even play it?

00:18:28 ◼   ► Like if I-

00:18:29 ◼   ► That was discussed on the program.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Like I went here to come buy it, but like if I even could get myself a copy, which I

00:18:35 ◼   ► can't right now, they're sold out, but if I could get one, I'd have to like go to my

00:18:38 ◼   ► mom's house or go to Casey's dad's house to actually play it.

00:18:41 ◼   ► And by the way, because vinyl is so stupid, it's only 45 minutes long and you have to

00:18:45 ◼   ► flip it in the middle.

00:18:48 ◼   ► You clearly did not live through the laserdisc era.

00:18:50 ◼   ► They should have used smart speed to record it.

00:18:52 ◼   ► They could have put more on.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Well, yeah, at least laserdisc players, most of them would—the whole head would flip

00:19:00 ◼   ► so you didn't have to move the disc.

00:19:03 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm glad you pointed out that you'd have to go to my dad's house because

00:19:06 ◼   ► I really don't think most people understand that I don't even have a record player.

00:19:09 ◼   ► I don't have a turntable because I don't have the space nor the inclination for it.

00:19:13 ◼   ► Because they're terrible.

00:19:15 ◼   ► In any case, I expect the internet to say, "Hello, hello, internet.

00:19:21 ◼   ► You guys are idiots because that's what you did to me."

00:19:23 ◼   ► And I understand the distinction.

00:19:25 ◼   ► But you shouldn't expect it.

00:19:27 ◼   ► You understand it's a joke?

00:19:28 ◼   ► Do you understand that on the program they directly address the thing that everyone was

00:19:31 ◼   ► yelling at you about and they said the opposite of what you said?

00:19:34 ◼   ► Eh, sort of.

00:19:36 ◼   ► I mean, I heard it.

00:19:37 ◼   ► I heard it.

00:19:38 ◼   ► But anyway.

00:19:39 ◼   ► So yeah, so all of you jerks, you can go after them now.

00:19:43 ◼   ► - Can we release an episode on cassette?

00:19:45 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:19:46 ◼   ► - Maybe actually, you know what we should do?

00:19:48 ◼   ► - Mini disc.

00:19:49 ◼   ► - 8-track.

00:19:50 ◼   ► - A floppy disc.

00:19:50 ◼   ► - 8-track, God, you are old.

00:19:52 ◼   ► And floppy disc, you're not gonna get a lot of space.

00:19:54 ◼   ► - 8-track, you don't have to flip that,

00:19:56 ◼   ► it just keeps playing.

00:19:57 ◼   ► - That's true, actually.

00:19:58 ◼   ► - If we really cram down the bit rate

00:20:00 ◼   ► and do like HEAAC, I'm pretty sure we can get

00:20:04 ◼   ► like 10 minutes on a floppy, maybe?

00:20:06 ◼   ► - No, it should come on like 17 floppy discs.

00:20:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:20:09 ◼   ► - That'd be amazing.

00:20:11 ◼   ► - You just have to keep putting it on.

00:20:12 ◼   ► I remember I took the, I think I've told the story before,

00:20:14 ◼   ► but my biggest floppy disk story is,

00:20:16 ◼   ► you remember the 1984 Apple commercial?

00:20:19 ◼   ► Well, in the early days of QuickTime,

00:20:21 ◼   ► Apple put out a QuickTime version of the 1984 commercial,

00:20:24 ◼   ► which must have been like lower resolution

00:20:28 ◼   ► than a Mac OS icon is today.

00:20:30 ◼   ► And it was like with the CinePak compression algorithm,

00:20:33 ◼   ► it looked terrible and it was really small.

00:20:35 ◼   ► But I was so excited to have it.

00:20:38 ◼   ► Like I had a digital version of that commercial today,

00:20:40 ◼   ► because back before you had a video on the internet,

00:20:42 ◼   ► how many times as a Mac fan had you seen

00:20:45 ◼   ► the Apple 1984 commercial?

00:20:47 ◼   ► On like, on the Clio Awards, you know,

00:20:49 ◼   ► retrospectives and stuff like that,

00:20:51 ◼   ► but in general, you tended not to see the ad anywhere.

00:20:54 ◼   ► You couldn't just go look at it on YouTube.

00:20:55 ◼   ► There was no YouTube, there was no video.

00:20:56 ◼   ► So finally I had a copy on video,

00:20:58 ◼   ► but the only way I could store it anywhere

00:21:00 ◼   ► was to put it on floppy disk,

00:21:01 ◼   ► 'cause that was my only removable media.

00:21:03 ◼   ► So I did a multi-part stuff at Expander Archive

00:21:06 ◼   ► on 20, in 25 parts and on 25 floppy disks.

00:21:09 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

00:21:11 ◼   ► - I think I still have like a rubber band around the thing.

00:21:13 ◼   ► It's like 25 floppy disks.

00:21:15 ◼   ► And if I was to take them,

00:21:16 ◼   ► put each floppy disk in, piece at a time,

00:21:18 ◼   ► onto like a hard drive or something,

00:21:19 ◼   ► and then reassemble them into whole,

00:21:21 ◼   ► then decompress it,

00:21:22 ◼   ► I would have a tiny postage stamp size video

00:21:24 ◼   ► of this commercial.

00:21:26 ◼   ► - So my favorite floppy disk story,

00:21:27 ◼   ► which I've mentioned probably on the show before,

00:21:29 ◼   ► was when I was a kid,

00:21:33 ◼   ► we ran OS/2 at home 'cause dad worked for IBM.

00:21:36 ◼   ► And you can say a bunch of terrible things about OS/2,

00:21:39 ◼   ► but in some ways it was superior.

00:21:41 ◼   ► God, this doesn't sound familiar at all, does it?

00:21:43 ◼   ► Anyway, yeah, so OS/2 was the vinyl of operating systems.

00:21:47 ◼   ► In some ways it was superior, but I got my hand,

00:21:52 ◼   ► well, dad got his hands on a beta of OS/2 warp,

00:21:56 ◼   ► and that thing was on, I kid you not,

00:21:58 ◼   ► something like 50 floppy disks,

00:22:01 ◼   ► or well, they were the, what was it, three and a half?

00:22:04 ◼   ► So they weren't really floppy at that point,

00:22:06 ◼   ► but anyway, the three and a half inch disk.

00:22:08 ◼   ► were internally floppy. Yeah, right? And so I remember installing that thing took me like

00:22:13 ◼   ► 14 weeks because it was just sit there and wait across each of these disks. It was ridiculous.

00:22:20 ◼   ► See this is why like I'm not nostalgic about vinyl because I grew up with a record player

00:22:26 ◼   ► in the house that my mom used regularly and that I would occasionally use as well. And

00:22:31 ◼   ► I like it annoyed me and I grew up then you know eventually when computers happened I

00:22:36 ◼   ► I grew up with five and a quarter,

00:22:37 ◼   ► and then three and a half inch floppy disks,

00:22:39 ◼   ► and lived through cassette tapes before CDs were a thing.

00:22:44 ◼   ► So all these old technologies,

00:22:46 ◼   ► like us looking back on vinyl,

00:22:47 ◼   ► I think is gonna be like if our children,

00:22:50 ◼   ► when they are old enough to become

00:22:51 ◼   ► their own version of hipsters,

00:22:53 ◼   ► when they look, if they have like fond recollections

00:22:57 ◼   ► of cassette tapes, even though they really kind of

00:22:59 ◼   ► never use them, and they're terrible.

00:23:03 ◼   ► - I don't know, vinyl to me is,

00:23:06 ◼   ► I don't see why it's any better than cassette tapes.

00:23:08 ◼   ► And cassette tapes themselves are terrible,

00:23:10 ◼   ► and we moved on, and I've moved on,

00:23:12 ◼   ► and the world has moved on,

00:23:13 ◼   ► and everyone's moved on except Casey.

00:23:16 ◼   ► - Right, so speaking of moving on from old things,

00:23:21 ◼   ► let's talk about installing operating systems

00:23:23 ◼   ► on one machine and then moving to another.

00:23:25 ◼   ► - Oh, geez, I forgot about this.

00:23:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, a lot of people are angry at Marco because--

00:23:29 ◼   ► - Oh, a lot of anger.

00:23:31 ◼   ► - Marco said mean things about Windows,

00:23:33 ◼   ► And he was angry, and now people are angry that he was angry.

00:23:36 ◼   ► But I'm mostly setting that aside, because I feel like Marco has taken his medicine from

00:23:40 ◼   ► all the Windows users who have emailed him to tell him what he said is wrong and hurtful.

00:23:44 ◼   ► Oh, no, I have opinions about that.

00:23:46 ◼   ► Oh, God.

00:23:47 ◼   ► All right.

00:23:48 ◼   ► Well, anyway, you can address that.

00:23:49 ◼   ► But the only reason I put this in here is because one of the points that was brought

00:23:51 ◼   ► up, and in fact I brought up in the program, was the idea that Marco was going to install

00:23:54 ◼   ► Windows onto an external drive and boot multiple, possibly different machines from it, like

00:24:00 ◼   ► boot a laptop, not just two 5K iMacs,

00:24:02 ◼   ► but boot a laptop from it and then,

00:24:03 ◼   ► or install Windows when it's connected to a laptop,

00:24:05 ◼   ► then use that same disk to boot the 5K iMac,

00:24:07 ◼   ► which has very different hardware.

00:24:09 ◼   ► And many Windows wrote in to tell us,

00:24:12 ◼   ► well, why did you ever think that would work?

00:24:14 ◼   ► And like I said on the program,

00:24:16 ◼   ► that's a bad idea for a variety of reasons,

00:24:18 ◼   ► but it's not just as Mac or Apple fans might think,

00:24:24 ◼   ► because OS X is better and Windows is crappy,

00:24:27 ◼   ► because OS X, as most Mac users know,

00:24:29 ◼   ► you can install that on a disconnected

00:24:31 ◼   ► to pretty much any computer and then plug it

00:24:32 ◼   ► into pretty much any other computer

00:24:34 ◼   ► and it boots that computer fine.

00:24:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, which one person wrote in to say,

00:24:38 ◼   ► "You know, OS X wouldn't work that way either."

00:24:40 ◼   ► And yeah, it actually does work that way

00:24:42 ◼   ► the vast majority of the time.

00:24:43 ◼   ► - I replied to the person that said, "Yeah, it does."

00:24:45 ◼   ► And here's the thing, all right, so this is all true.

00:24:48 ◼   ► It does work that way.

00:24:48 ◼   ► And if you're mostly a Mac user

00:24:50 ◼   ► or mostly recently a Mac user,

00:24:52 ◼   ► you might think that Windows worked the same way.

00:24:54 ◼   ► Like it's a reasonable mistake.

00:24:55 ◼   ► Not quite as reasonable for Marco

00:24:57 ◼   ► to spend a long time with Windows,

00:24:58 ◼   ► but still we'll set that aside.

00:25:00 ◼   ► But like I said, the reason OS X works that way

00:25:02 ◼   ► and Windows doesn't is not because Microsoft is dumb

00:25:05 ◼   ► and Apple is smart in this particular case.

00:25:07 ◼   ► It's because it's basically impossible

00:25:09 ◼   ► for Windows to do what OS X does.

00:25:11 ◼   ► OS X installs everything in its OS installation,

00:25:14 ◼   ► all the drivers, just everything on there, because why not?

00:25:17 ◼   ► It only supports a very limited range of hardware.

00:25:19 ◼   ► Apple knows every piece of hardware in every single machine

00:25:23 ◼   ► that is officially supported by its operating system.

00:25:25 ◼   ► and that set of hardware is small.

00:25:28 ◼   ► Windows can't take every driver for every machine

00:25:32 ◼   ► that Windows can possibly run on and install it

00:25:34 ◼   ► because your installation would be gigantic.

00:25:36 ◼   ► It's literally impossible.

00:25:38 ◼   ► There's too many drivers from too many different places.

00:25:40 ◼   ► They have to do a thing where they do

00:25:42 ◼   ► kind of like a custom install

00:25:44 ◼   ► for just the hardware that you have.

00:25:45 ◼   ► Now you might say that Windows could then,

00:25:47 ◼   ► after boot up time, be smarter about pulling down

00:25:49 ◼   ► new drivers on demand or whatever,

00:25:50 ◼   ► but anything involved in the boot process

00:25:52 ◼   ► or like getting the video driver to work

00:25:54 ◼   ► so your thing can even get to the point

00:25:55 ◼   ► where it's downloading stuff, it's very complicated.

00:25:57 ◼   ► Like basically, the option that Apple goes with

00:26:00 ◼   ► is not available to Microsoft.

00:26:02 ◼   ► They cannot say, we're just gonna install these same files

00:26:04 ◼   ► in every single Windows installation,

00:26:06 ◼   ► and then it'll boot every single computer.

00:26:08 ◼   ► So if you had thought about it for a little while,

00:26:10 ◼   ► even if you had no experience with Windows,

00:26:12 ◼   ► you would think, wait, they can't do the Apple thing,

00:26:15 ◼   ► which is kind of a shame,

00:26:16 ◼   ► and it's Microsoft's own fault

00:26:18 ◼   ► for having the business model

00:26:19 ◼   ► that brought them to massive dominance of the PC industry

00:26:22 ◼   ► for most of my entire life.

00:26:23 ◼   ► But here it is, a boomerang back around,

00:26:26 ◼   ► and it means that Marco can't get a game to work

00:26:28 ◼   ► in a timely fashion.

00:26:30 ◼   ► - All right, so, couple of very small updates to that story.

00:26:34 ◼   ► Basically, so most of the hatred for my actions

00:26:38 ◼   ► in this story, which again, was quite strong,

00:26:41 ◼   ► most of the hatred focused on a few key points.

00:26:44 ◼   ► Number one was I can't believe you expected that to work

00:26:47 ◼   ► by having an external drive installation

00:26:48 ◼   ► move between computers, as you covered just now.

00:26:51 ◼   ► Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't have expected that to work.

00:26:53 ◼   ► I forgot how picky Windows was about drivers.

00:26:55 ◼   ► I haven't used Windows reliably,

00:26:56 ◼   ► or I haven't used Windows really at all in about 10 years.

00:27:00 ◼   ► And I haven't used it heavily in about 12 years.

00:27:02 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:27:03 ◼   ► - Well, and on that before you move on to the next thing,

00:27:05 ◼   ► there is a somewhat reasonable chance

00:27:08 ◼   ► that you could have thought that this would work

00:27:10 ◼   ► because you were of course installing the bootcamp drivers.

00:27:13 ◼   ► And the bootcamp drivers are in exactly the same situation

00:27:15 ◼   ► as like they only have to support

00:27:16 ◼   ► a limited amount of hardware.

00:27:18 ◼   ► So in theory, perhaps the bootcamp drivers,

00:27:21 ◼   ► had they been really good and comprehensive,

00:27:24 ◼   ► could have installed the full set of drivers

00:27:25 ◼   ► that would boot any boot camp capable machine,

00:27:27 ◼   ► but obviously they did not do that,

00:27:29 ◼   ► and we've heard from many people

00:27:30 ◼   ► that the boot camp drivers are a little bit old and creaky,

00:27:32 ◼   ► and have not kept up with the advancements in Windows,

00:27:35 ◼   ► which doesn't surprise me,

00:27:35 ◼   ► because Apple's support for boot camp

00:27:37 ◼   ► always seems kind of half-hearted

00:27:39 ◼   ► in the last, let's say, half decade.

00:27:41 ◼   ► - Right, but yeah, to be fair,

00:27:42 ◼   ► that is the assumption I made.

00:27:45 ◼   ► Secondly, the issue came up that

00:27:47 ◼   ► I did hit the skip activation thing,

00:27:50 ◼   ► like remind me later about activation and setup.

00:27:52 ◼   ► The reason why I hit that is not because I was being lazy,

00:27:55 ◼   ► and I forgot to mention this during the show,

00:27:56 ◼   ► it's because I knew, people had told me,

00:27:59 ◼   ► that if you activate on the external drive

00:28:01 ◼   ► and you plug it into a different computer,

00:28:02 ◼   ► it'll break the activation and you'll have to reactivate

00:28:05 ◼   ► by calling Microsoft or whatever the heck you have to do.

00:28:08 ◼   ► So I knew that was a risk, so I was waiting

00:28:10 ◼   ► until it was going to be on the computer

00:28:12 ◼   ► that the game was gonna be played on to activate.

00:28:14 ◼   ► So I was trying to get the whole thing set up on my laptop

00:28:17 ◼   ► so I wouldn't have to disturb Tiff's computer

00:28:19 ◼   ► and it's uptime because she was working on it.

00:28:22 ◼   ► So I was trying to get it all set up on my laptop first,

00:28:24 ◼   ► and then I was gonna move the drive over there,

00:28:25 ◼   ► activate it there so it wouldn't break, and then move on.

00:28:30 ◼   ► There's also ways that you can get like, you know,

00:28:31 ◼   ► pirate keys, volume license keys to get around all this,

00:28:34 ◼   ► but I was doing this legally, so you know,

00:28:36 ◼   ► I couldn't, I had to actually follow the

00:28:38 ◼   ► wonderfully abusive legitimate customer restrictions.

00:28:41 ◼   ► Thank you, thank you DRM. - You fooled you.

00:28:43 ◼   ► - Yeah. (laughs)

00:28:44 ◼   ► That's the penalty I get for doing things legally.

00:28:46 ◼   ► And finally, the argument that I was being unfair

00:28:51 ◼   ► to Windows and that Windows doesn't suck

00:28:53 ◼   ► and that I suck for saying that Windows is stupid,

00:28:57 ◼   ► I respectfully disagree.

00:28:59 ◼   ► Even though some of the things I did were not correct,

00:29:01 ◼   ► Windows is stupid and it does suck.

00:29:04 ◼   ► - I'm sure that will totally address that email.

00:29:07 ◼   ► - Yes. - Yeah, totally.

00:29:09 ◼   ► - Good counterargument. - Yes.

00:29:10 ◼   ► - That will summarize that in all caps by saying no you

00:29:15 ◼   ► with the O and the U transposed.

00:29:18 ◼   ► One more tidbit on Inside before we move on to Marco's fame and glory.

00:29:23 ◼   ► If you want to hear both me and Tiff talk about Inside, as played on both the Mac and

00:29:28 ◼   ► PS4, there will be an upcoming episode of The Incombrel that we are both on where we

00:29:31 ◼   ► discuss it, and I hope Marco was far away from the room when that was going on because

00:29:34 ◼   ► we spoiled the whole thing.

00:29:36 ◼   ► I actually, I went to the entire other side of the house just so I wouldn't overhear anything.

00:29:40 ◼   ► Good plan.

00:29:41 ◼   ► Anyway, play the game, then listen to The Incombrel.

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00:31:22 ◼   ► - Today, no, was it yesterday?

00:31:28 ◼   ► Yesterday, I'm sorry.

00:31:30 ◼   ► The App Store made some news,

00:31:33 ◼   ► and then I think there was a little bit more today as well.

00:31:36 ◼   ► So yesterday, Apple has said that they're going to start removing old and busted apps

00:31:43 ◼   ► from the store.

00:31:44 ◼   ► That's my summary, but that's basically what it amounts to.

00:31:48 ◼   ► And they also said that the names of apps can no longer be something like "Tweetbot,"

00:31:54 ◼   ► a power user's Twitter client, or something like that.

00:31:57 ◼   ► Actually, they probably still would fit.

00:31:59 ◼   ► Well, you know what I mean.

00:32:00 ◼   ► So it has to be 50 characters or less.

00:32:03 ◼   ► And the idea is they don't want you gaming their piss-poor search by adding search keywords

00:32:10 ◼   ► and terms into your app title.

00:32:13 ◼   ► So they expect the app titles to be 50 characters or less.

00:32:17 ◼   ► Awesome.

00:32:18 ◼   ► This is great news.

00:32:19 ◼   ► I'm really pleased by this.

00:32:20 ◼   ► So I have nothing really, I have not much more to say.

00:32:24 ◼   ► I think FastText would have run afoul of this, most likely.

00:32:27 ◼   ► And to be honest, that's a good thing.

00:32:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:30 ◼   ► I mean, this is a very, very good thing in general.

00:32:32 ◼   ► I mean, if you look at, there are a little light

00:32:35 ◼   ► on the specifics of what they're going to prune out,

00:32:37 ◼   ► but basically it's like, if the app crashes on launch,

00:32:40 ◼   ► it'll be removed immediately.

00:32:42 ◼   ► So if you have some old app that no longer

00:32:44 ◼   ► literally doesn't even work, they're just pulling it

00:32:46 ◼   ► with no warning to the developer, just, oh well.

00:32:49 ◼   ► They're enforcing, basically, if there's any new rules

00:32:54 ◼   ► that weren't around when the app first passed app review,

00:32:57 ◼   ► but it is actually violating those rules,

00:32:59 ◼   ► then they are retroactively enforcing them.

00:33:01 ◼   ► So basically, it used to be that if you got through once,

00:33:05 ◼   ► or before the rule was in effect,

00:33:06 ◼   ► you could basically keep doing it forever,

00:33:09 ◼   ► and as long as you didn't update your app,

00:33:10 ◼   ► which is not a great system.

00:33:13 ◼   ► So they're kinda closing that loophole.

00:33:14 ◼   ► Now they're going to go back and re-review apps

00:33:18 ◼   ► under modern rules.

00:33:20 ◼   ► And if they no longer pass the rules,

00:33:23 ◼   ► 'cause the rules have changed,

00:33:24 ◼   ► or something slipped through,

00:33:26 ◼   ► that they will now be enforcing that on those apps

00:33:29 ◼   ► and removing them if they have to.

00:33:30 ◼   ► And then the big thing, which I think is more interesting,

00:33:33 ◼   ► is basically, I forget exactly how they phrased it,

00:33:36 ◼   ► it's like, unmaintained or abandoned apps.

00:33:40 ◼   ► And so, they haven't said specifically what that means,

00:33:43 ◼   ► but what I assume that would mean are things like,

00:33:46 ◼   ► if you still don't have a 64-bit binary,

00:33:49 ◼   ► because I'm assuming part of the reason they're doing this

00:33:51 ◼   ► is to get the app store ready for a future version of iOS,

00:33:55 ◼   ► probably iOS 11 that doesn't have 32-bit support at all,

00:33:58 ◼   ► and won't launch 32-bit apps at all.

00:34:00 ◼   ► Things like if you still don't have retina support

00:34:03 ◼   ► or if you still don't have support

00:34:05 ◼   ► for the larger screens on the phones.

00:34:07 ◼   ► On the iPad, I'll be interested to see

00:34:09 ◼   ► how strict they will be,

00:34:11 ◼   ► 'cause the iPad has a lot more challenges in this department.

00:34:15 ◼   ► iPads were non-retina for longer,

00:34:17 ◼   ► and a lot of iPad software got written

00:34:19 ◼   ► in the non-retina days and then never updated,

00:34:21 ◼   ► 'cause it wasn't worth it to pay some consultants

00:34:23 ◼   ► to update your software or to rewrite games or whatever else.

00:34:26 ◼   ► I wonder like are they going to be as strict on the iPad?

00:34:29 ◼   ► You know the 12.9 inch iPad launched

00:34:34 ◼   ► and it's really crappy to use 9.7 inch apps

00:34:38 ◼   ► on the 12.9 inch iPad, especially if you have to use

00:34:41 ◼   ► the keyboard for any kind of text input.

00:34:42 ◼   ► The onscreen keyboard is horrible when it gets blown up.

00:34:46 ◼   ► So it'll be interesting to see like you know

00:34:47 ◼   ► basically how strictly they enforce that kind of

00:34:51 ◼   ► unmaintained and abandoned rule.

00:34:53 ◼   ► And if it applies, assuming it applies to things like

00:34:55 ◼   ► supporting new screen sizes and new modern builds

00:34:59 ◼   ► that include the right architecture and stuff like that,

00:35:00 ◼   ► but then basically how strict will they be

00:35:02 ◼   ► and what else will it include?

00:35:04 ◼   ► - I can't imagine them doing the screen size thing,

00:35:06 ◼   ► because I mean, unless they include other factors,

00:35:08 ◼   ► because I have apps from large multinational corporations

00:35:12 ◼   ► that are updated very frequently

00:35:14 ◼   ► that still don't support my iPhone 6's screen size.

00:35:18 ◼   ► You can tell from the slightly too big keyboard

00:35:20 ◼   ► and everything, and these are not abandoned.

00:35:22 ◼   ► These apps that are frequently updated,

00:35:24 ◼   ► Bugs are fixed, features are added, and yet they still don't support the screen size.

00:35:28 ◼   ► So I don't think that qualifies as abandoned, and I don't think Apple can, politically speaking,

00:35:34 ◼   ► pull apps like that under the guise of "we're cleaning out abandoned things."

00:35:37 ◼   ► The 64-bit, 32-bit, yeah.

00:35:39 ◼   ► Because that's coming no matter what anyway, and they're just laying the groundwork.

00:35:42 ◼   ► But screen size, I don't think, especially like, I think their definition of abandoned

00:35:46 ◼   ► has to be some set of those things plus also has not been updated in six months or a year

00:35:52 ◼   ► or something.

00:35:53 ◼   ► Maybe, but I don't know.

00:35:54 ◼   ► I mean, 'cause like, you know, some of these things

00:35:56 ◼   ► they can enforce at the iTunes Connect level.

00:35:58 ◼   ► So they could say, like, iTunes Connect no longer

00:36:01 ◼   ► accepts apps that are 32, but only which it probably

00:36:03 ◼   ► hasn't for, what, over a year now.

00:36:05 ◼   ► They could say things like iTunes Connect no longer support,

00:36:07 ◼   ► or no longer will allow you to submit an app

00:36:09 ◼   ► that doesn't support the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus screen sizes.

00:36:13 ◼   ► And then, six months after that, they can say,

00:36:15 ◼   ► well, if you don't support the screen sizes

00:36:17 ◼   ► and haven't updated your app in over six months,

00:36:20 ◼   ► you know, they can make a loophole if they want to.

00:36:23 ◼   ► and that is probably how some of these things will play out.

00:36:25 ◼   ► But I mean, one thing, like, you know,

00:36:27 ◼   ► most apps that do that, like,

00:36:28 ◼   ► if they're still getting updates,

00:36:29 ◼   ► like, actually the official Tesla app is one of these apps,

00:36:33 ◼   ► where the Tesla app is, it gets updates,

00:36:36 ◼   ► like, every few months, but it still doesn't support

00:36:39 ◼   ► the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus screen sizes.

00:36:42 ◼   ► Like, it has the modern keyboard and everything,

00:36:43 ◼   ► but it's still just not supporting larger screens,

00:36:46 ◼   ► 'cause like, it's all like pixel perfect

00:36:48 ◼   ► iOS 6 style designed, and I assume they don't wanna, like,

00:36:51 ◼   ► back and pay somebody to redesign it to blow it up and everything, but that's kind of

00:36:56 ◼   ► crappy. If they can use this to push companies to update their ancient broken apps that they're

00:37:04 ◼   ► basically just not updating out of laziness or not moving to modern stuff because of laziness

00:37:09 ◼   ► or just not wanting to allocate the funds for it, this is probably a good thing. It's

00:37:12 ◼   ► definitely a good thing for users. For developers who are in the consulting business, it is

00:37:17 ◼   ► is almost certainly a good thing,

00:37:18 ◼   ► because this is probably going to be

00:37:21 ◼   ► a big boon to consulting,

00:37:23 ◼   ► because all these companies that have

00:37:25 ◼   ► all these ancient iPhone and iPad apps,

00:37:27 ◼   ► they didn't really have any kind of push before

00:37:30 ◼   ► to wanna put more money into them,

00:37:32 ◼   ► but now they're going to have a big push

00:37:34 ◼   ► if Apple says, "You need to update this to support X,

00:37:36 ◼   ► "or we're gonna pull you out of the App Store in 30 days."

00:37:38 ◼   ► - I still think the vast majority of this

00:37:40 ◼   ► is gonna be cleaning out the crap

00:37:41 ◼   ► that no one has looked at in forever,

00:37:43 ◼   ► that it also isn't making any more money.

00:37:45 ◼   ► So I think the vast majority of the garbage

00:37:47 ◼   ► just crap that was released once, never updated,

00:37:50 ◼   ► stopped making money three and a half years ago,

00:37:53 ◼   ► and it's just in the store.

00:37:54 ◼   ► And the meta story about this,

00:37:56 ◼   ► as everyone who has written anything about it

00:37:57 ◼   ► has pointed out, and as I think is obvious

00:37:59 ◼   ► to everybody looking at it,

00:38:00 ◼   ► is this marks the end of the era

00:38:02 ◼   ► when Apple is touting the number of applications

00:38:05 ◼   ► in the App Store as their prime measure

00:38:07 ◼   ► of how awesome they're doing.

00:38:08 ◼   ► It's like, I mean, they should have stopped this long ago,

00:38:10 ◼   ► 'cause as I think we've all talked about

00:38:12 ◼   ► on past programs over the years,

00:38:14 ◼   ► once you get into the hundreds of thousands or millions,

00:38:16 ◼   ► the number of apps you have in the App Store

00:38:18 ◼   ► is a detriment to the user experience, not a boon.

00:38:22 ◼   ► So, you know, 'cause it's just,

00:38:24 ◼   ► especially when your search is horrendous, Apple.

00:38:27 ◼   ► But yeah, so like, the App Store is better

00:38:30 ◼   ► if they delete several hundred thousand crap apps.

00:38:33 ◼   ► - That's exactly the thing.

00:38:34 ◼   ► I mean, like, the search is a massive angle to this.

00:38:36 ◼   ► Like, you know, so the other side,

00:38:38 ◼   ► you know, as we said at first,

00:38:39 ◼   ► like, they're prohibiting spamming your app with keywords

00:38:42 ◼   ► that are not related to what it does,

00:38:44 ◼   ► and they're setting a cap on 50 characters now.

00:38:47 ◼   ► I don't know what the cap was before,

00:38:48 ◼   ► but I've seen some pretty long app titles that are,

00:38:51 ◼   ► it's basically like four sentences after the first word

00:38:54 ◼   ► of describing all the things it does

00:38:55 ◼   ► and mentioning every big app.

00:38:56 ◼   ► Like, oh, this works for Instagram and Twitter,

00:38:58 ◼   ► you know, all the spammers.

00:38:59 ◼   ► But a lot of this, these things wouldn't be

00:39:03 ◼   ► as big of a problem in the app store

00:39:05 ◼   ► if the search was better.

00:39:06 ◼   ► And so a lot of critics have pointed out, rightly so,

00:39:09 ◼   ► that these things are nice, but if you just fix the search--

00:39:13 ◼   ► - It would solve itself, yeah, 'cause the web

00:39:15 ◼   ► is full of crap too, but Google manages to find stuff on it.

00:39:17 ◼   ► - Exactly, so it is kind of, I mean, on one hand,

00:39:21 ◼   ► it's a little bit frustrating that Apple is kind of

00:39:24 ◼   ► jumping through hoops to do things that

00:39:26 ◼   ► better search would alleviate.

00:39:27 ◼   ► On the other hand, it seems pretty clear that--

00:39:30 ◼   ► - Better search is not coming.

00:39:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, that Apple just isn't very good at search,

00:39:35 ◼   ► especially on whoever manages App Store search,

00:39:37 ◼   ► like, whatever they're doing over there,

00:39:39 ◼   ► whatever methods and algorithms they're using,

00:39:41 ◼   ► they just can't seem to pull together a really good search.

00:39:44 ◼   ► And so if it's not going to happen,

00:39:46 ◼   ► then you might as well do things around it

00:39:48 ◼   ► to alleviate how crappy it is for people.

00:39:52 ◼   ► - Well, they should do both.

00:39:52 ◼   ► I'm assuming they are doing both,

00:39:54 ◼   ► but this is the easy first thing to do.

00:39:56 ◼   ► It really is a benefit to,

00:39:58 ◼   ► the App Store is not the web.

00:40:00 ◼   ► I just mentioned the web,

00:40:01 ◼   ► the web is just full of crap and the magic.

00:40:03 ◼   ► For Google, it finds out the pages

00:40:04 ◼   ► that are actually worth you finding,

00:40:05 ◼   ► even though millions and millions of pages

00:40:08 ◼   ► match whatever you type into the search box,

00:40:09 ◼   ► they find the one that is the best match,

00:40:11 ◼   ► meaning not just a spammy abandonware, you know, like,

00:40:14 ◼   ► but Google doesn't control the web entirely yet.

00:40:17 ◼   ► They can't clean out, they can't clean out the crappy web pages.

00:40:24 ◼   ► But the whole idea behind the App Store,

00:40:26 ◼   ► if you had read any story about the App Store

00:40:28 ◼   ► in the first few years,

00:40:30 ◼   ► your chances of seeing the word "curated" in the article

00:40:32 ◼   ► were very, very high.

00:40:34 ◼   ► And what Apple has done with the App Store

00:40:39 ◼   ► does not really fit any reasonable definition of curated,

00:40:42 ◼   ► because if you were curating any kind of collection

00:40:45 ◼   ► of anything, you just wouldn't allow this kind of crap

00:40:48 ◼   ► to A, enter it in the first place,

00:40:50 ◼   ► which they've been getting better about,

00:40:51 ◼   ► hey, we don't need any more fart apps,

00:40:52 ◼   ► remember that era, right?

00:40:54 ◼   ► And B, you wouldn't let it sit there.

00:40:56 ◼   ► Curating means realizing that there is 300,000 applications

00:41:00 ◼   ► that crash on launch that haven't been downloaded

00:41:01 ◼   ► in several years, except for by poor unsuspecting people

00:41:04 ◼   ► who get bad results from your terrible search, right?

00:41:07 ◼   ► Curating means you've got to clean that crap out.

00:41:09 ◼   ► And yes, they should make search better,

00:41:11 ◼   ► but you should also do this.

00:41:12 ◼   ► Otherwise don't pretend that you're really curating.

00:41:14 ◼   ► All you're really doing is exerting control,

00:41:17 ◼   ► but you don't care about the state of the collection.

00:41:19 ◼   ► All you care about is like the gate.

00:41:21 ◼   ► Like we don't want to let any apps in

00:41:22 ◼   ► that violate our current set of arbitrary rules,

00:41:25 ◼   ► but once they're in, whatever,

00:41:27 ◼   ► we don't curate the collection, we just curate the door.

00:41:29 ◼   ► You know, we're just the bouncer,

00:41:30 ◼   ► but once you get in, you can die on the floor

00:41:33 ◼   ► and slowly decompose and we won't even look at you.

00:41:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:41:37 ◼   ► - That analogy got a little grim in the end, but--

00:41:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, a little bit.

00:41:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:41:42 ◼   ► - Oh goodness.

00:41:43 ◼   ► And then Apple has also updated their

00:41:46 ◼   ► official review guidelines, I guess is what happened,

00:41:49 ◼   ► and they've made some clarifications about subscriptions

00:41:52 ◼   ► with which is interesting to several people.

00:41:55 ◼   ► And Marco, you caught wind of this.

00:41:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean a lot of people did.

00:41:59 ◼   ► There's a lot of sites now that basically provide diffs

00:42:02 ◼   ► for like any time Apple changes their review guidelines,

00:42:04 ◼   ► there's sites now that will just tell you,

00:42:06 ◼   ► like, here's what changed.

00:42:06 ◼   ► It will even alert you, sometimes they'll email you,

00:42:09 ◼   ► or they'll tweet about it.

00:42:10 ◼   ► It's pretty great services.

00:42:12 ◼   ► So anyway, everyone immediately notices that,

00:42:14 ◼   ► oh, the review guidelines have had some modifications,

00:42:17 ◼   ► and some of it is simple, expected stuff

00:42:20 ◼   ► to things like sticker pack rules

00:42:23 ◼   ► for the upcoming iOS 10 launch.

00:42:25 ◼   ► It's probably happening probably next week,

00:42:27 ◼   ► or sometime very soon.

00:42:29 ◼   ► And so that's cool.

00:42:31 ◼   ► But then they also basically clarified

00:42:33 ◼   ► the auto renewing subscription rules a little bit.

00:42:36 ◼   ► 'Cause as we learned early in the summer right before

00:42:38 ◼   ► WWDC, they announced they were bringing subscriptions,

00:42:41 ◼   ► basically allowing them for all categories of apps,

00:42:43 ◼   ► not just publications anymore.

00:42:46 ◼   ► And it was kind of left vague and unstated,

00:42:51 ◼   ► and then later slightly clarified by Phil Schiller

00:42:53 ◼   ► on the talk show live actually, WWDC,

00:42:56 ◼   ► about could productivity apps just charge a subscription

00:43:01 ◼   ► for updates and basically could you charge a subscription

00:43:05 ◼   ► for just using the app instead of content

00:43:09 ◼   ► that was being delivered or a web service or anything else.

00:43:12 ◼   ► And that was left unspecified and vague

00:43:15 ◼   ► until yesterday when they basically said,

00:43:18 ◼   ► I forget exactly what they said,

00:43:19 ◼   ► but it was a list of things that would be

00:43:22 ◼   ► most likely permitted and they're still

00:43:24 ◼   ► a little noncommittal and basically it's like

00:43:26 ◼   ► you have to basically submit and try,

00:43:28 ◼   ► but it was always that way.

00:43:29 ◼   ► But one of the things in the list of examples

00:43:31 ◼   ► that would be permitted was apps that have frequent

00:43:36 ◼   ► and substantial updates.

00:43:37 ◼   ► - Close, so close.

00:43:38 ◼   ► If only there were a way for you to know

00:43:40 ◼   ► what that rule said.

00:43:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, if only I would have done some homework.

00:43:45 ◼   ► - Casey and I are both staring at it, as you say.

00:43:47 ◼   ► There's no way to really know what was said exactly,

00:43:49 ◼   ► but if it had been in the notes

00:43:51 ◼   ► and somehow put into bold text--

00:43:53 ◼   ► - Oh, there it is, look at that.

00:43:54 ◼   ► - And you would know exactly which part

00:43:55 ◼   ► you should look at.

00:43:57 ◼   ► - Just had to change tabs.

00:43:58 ◼   ► We're still in follow-up?

00:43:59 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:44:00 ◼   ► No, this should have been moved.

00:44:01 ◼   ► move now. This was before the second part of the story came out about the, you know, 50 character

00:44:06 ◼   ► limit and the whatever. Like, so anyway, this would have been a follow up on because we were

00:44:10 ◼   ► all, at least I was, remember being very angry about this rule because the written rule and what

00:44:16 ◼   ► Phil said seemed to be at odds and it was like, just make it clear. Like, it doesn't really matter

00:44:20 ◼   ► what Phil Schiller says because you can't submit your app and then say, well, Phil Schiller said

00:44:23 ◼   ► that this thing I saw at WWDC. Like, that's not how rules work. You have to, like, if you're writing

00:44:28 ◼   ► rules make them as clear as you possibly can and it was frustrating to me that it didn't seem like

00:44:33 ◼   ► Apple had its act together and we were questioning like does that mean that if you make an application

00:44:38 ◼   ► for like a productivity app or whatever and you just offer updates every year or so like major

00:44:44 ◼   ► updates can you make a subscription to that or not that's what we all wanted to know and the

00:44:48 ◼   ► clarification and the exact words of the type of things that can allow for the subscription pricing

00:44:53 ◼   ► or apps that offer consistent substantive updates, which is not particularly precise,

00:45:00 ◼   ► but it clearly lays out you don't need to have new game levels or episodic content or

00:45:06 ◼   ► anything like that, just consistent support, consistent updates and substantive updates.

00:45:11 ◼   ► So that's still open to interpretation, but it doesn't say anything about you being a

00:45:15 ◼   ► media app, anything about you being a game, anything about you having like a magazine

00:45:20 ◼   ► issues or new content, it just merely says you gotta update it, because it's gotta be consistent,

00:45:26 ◼   ► and there has to be something in them. They have to be like not just, "Oh, I added one tiny little

00:45:30 ◼   ► tweak here, one new preference," right? And so I think that's what people want. They just wanted

00:45:35 ◼   ► clearance for like, "Okay, if I think..." and then it's just arguing over what counts as a substantive

00:45:40 ◼   ► update. And I think if people do a 2.0, and it's got like... If you did a 2.0 and it includes

00:45:45 ◼   ► streaming, you'd win that argument with any reasonable person if you were allowed to have it

00:45:48 ◼   ► to say, "That's a substantial update. This is a major feature, major new capabilities."

00:45:53 ◼   ► And if you had a subscription pricing to overcast, 1.0 didn't have streaming and 2.0 did, I think

00:45:57 ◼   ► everybody, including Apple, would be all thumbs up on that. And that's all we were looking

00:46:01 ◼   ► for back when this rule came out, just to understand the scope of subscription, and

00:46:06 ◼   ► then we can just argue about the details.

00:46:07 ◼   ► Right. And it still is going to be like, you still have to submit kind of blindly and just

00:46:13 ◼   ► hope they allow you to do it. But this at least gives you a pretty good indication that

00:46:18 ◼   ► Like, if you're using this responsibly, they will probably allow it.

00:46:22 ◼   ► You can start development.

00:46:23 ◼   ► Like, that's the best thing about it.

00:46:24 ◼   ► It's like, before you didn't even know whether it was worthwhile to start developing.

00:46:26 ◼   ► Now you can start development.

00:46:27 ◼   ► I feel like if you get rejected, they can say, "Oh, that's not a substantial enough

00:46:31 ◼   ► update."

00:46:32 ◼   ► And you can say, "Okay, well, I'll just work more and add more features."

00:46:34 ◼   ► And presumably at some point you could say, "Now this surely is worthy of a substantial

00:46:38 ◼   ► update."

00:46:39 ◼   ► And now, you know, of course, if you take too long, then your updates are no longer

00:46:42 ◼   ► consistent.

00:46:43 ◼   ► But I feel like this gives people the cover they need to begin development, which is all

00:46:47 ◼   ► anyone really wants to know. Like, am I wasting my time entirely on this? Or if I'm acting

00:46:51 ◼   ► in good faith with my understanding of how this works, the language is now on the same

00:46:55 ◼   ► page with what Phil Schiller said, and I feel like it should make everybody relax and feel

00:46:59 ◼   ► better, he says foolishly before everyone gets rejected for major updates. But we'll

00:47:03 ◼   ► see how this works out.

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00:49:01 ◼   ► Jon posted a week ago a collection of scans, I presume, or perhaps pictures of old artwork

00:49:08 ◼   ► that he had done, generally speaking, as a kid.

00:49:11 ◼   ► I found this fascinating, and we'll put links to all these pieces in the show notes.

00:49:15 ◼   ► Basically, it was on Jon's Instagram account, profile, whatever you call it.

00:49:20 ◼   ► I had known, Jon, that you fancied yourself a bit of an artist when you were a kid, and

00:49:25 ◼   ► And I thought that meant that your artistic skills were better than just stick figures,

00:49:32 ◼   ► which puts you ahead of almost everyone I know.

00:49:35 ◼   ► Then I see all these pictures and I realized, holy crap!

00:49:39 ◼   ► I don't know if you knew this, but you could like really, really draw really, really well.

00:49:42 ◼   ► Yeah, they were really good.

00:49:44 ◼   ► So FYI, that's the thing.

00:49:45 ◼   ► It's like you don't read anything that I write.

00:49:47 ◼   ► It's like the first hypercritical thing that I wrote.

00:49:49 ◼   ► What's the first line of that?

00:49:50 ◼   ► It's a Goodfellas reference even.

00:49:52 ◼   ► It's a double whammy.

00:49:54 ◼   ► - Well, look, we knew from following you and reading

00:49:57 ◼   ► and listening to your stuff, we knew that you used to be

00:50:00 ◼   ► some kind of artist, but we didn't know like the degree

00:50:04 ◼   ► or what you drew really.

00:50:06 ◼   ► All we knew is that you had said that you had done it

00:50:08 ◼   ► for a while and you were too critical about it

00:50:11 ◼   ► and you couldn't get over how critical you were

00:50:13 ◼   ► of your own work.

00:50:13 ◼   ► - No, you gotta reread that to understand.

00:50:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, probably.

00:50:17 ◼   ► - The point of that thing was, yes, in the beginning

00:50:20 ◼   ► was as far back as I can remember, blah, blah, blah.

00:50:24 ◼   ► I was told I wanted to grow up to be an artist.

00:50:25 ◼   ► And then you read the whole thing,

00:50:26 ◼   ► you realize, why didn't I do that?

00:50:28 ◼   ► It's because my actual skill wasn't artistic talent,

00:50:32 ◼   ► which is why I didn't pursue it.

00:50:32 ◼   ► My actual skill was being able to draw something

00:50:35 ◼   ► and look at it and know what was wrong with it.

00:50:36 ◼   ► And then you just fix it and you just repeat that process.

00:50:38 ◼   ► And if you just keep repeating it,

00:50:39 ◼   ► the picture gets better and better the longer you work on it.

00:50:41 ◼   ► But that's not how real artists work.

00:50:44 ◼   ► Well, kinda how they work.

00:50:45 ◼   ► But anyway, I realized my own limitations.

00:50:48 ◼   ► - In all fairness, you have made a very good living

00:50:50 ◼   ► by being a complainer professionally.

00:50:52 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:50:53 ◼   ► - Exactly, if you're gonna look at,

00:50:55 ◼   ► where are you gonna make more money?

00:50:56 ◼   ► Drawing pictures that, drawing copies

00:50:58 ◼   ► of other people's pictures or complaining about stuff.

00:51:00 ◼   ► Apparently complaining about stuff is much more lucrative.

00:51:02 ◼   ► - Well, if you're good at it

00:51:03 ◼   ► and you are really good at complaining about stuff.

00:51:05 ◼   ► - A lot of practice.

00:51:07 ◼   ► - To be good at complaining about stuff,

00:51:09 ◼   ► you can't just complain a lot about it.

00:51:11 ◼   ► You have to be able to complain well about it.

00:51:13 ◼   ► And that's where, like, you are so good at complaining well.

00:51:17 ◼   ► Anybody can complain, I complain all the time,

00:51:19 ◼   ► but I'm not nearly as good at it as you.

00:51:20 ◼   ► Are you a professional, top-notch,

00:51:23 ◼   ► like world-class complainer about anything?

00:51:25 ◼   ► - You need to get the practice to, I messed it up,

00:51:28 ◼   ► complaining Carnegie Hall, practice kid.

00:51:31 ◼   ► - Well. - You don't even know

00:51:33 ◼   ► that saying?

00:51:34 ◼   ► I mangled it too much, it was unrecognizable.

00:51:35 ◼   ► I apologize, I'm an old man.

00:51:37 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:40 ◼   ► - Oh my goodness, so anyway, I didn't,

00:51:42 ◼   ► I don't have too much more to say about these

00:51:45 ◼   ► other than I genuinely, genuinely was dumbfounded

00:51:50 ◼   ► at how good they were, 'cause I expected it to be like,

00:51:54 ◼   ► you know, stick figures plus plus, if you will,

00:51:57 ◼   ► and that's not a new Underscore app.

00:51:58 ◼   ► What I mean by that is, you know, just the next level.

00:52:00 ◼   ► - Not yet anyway. - Yeah, not yet anyway.

00:52:03 ◼   ► - I would love to see that app, actually.

00:52:04 ◼   ► - That would be pretty awesome.

00:52:06 ◼   ► It'll be like Pinpoint/Bugshot,

00:52:10 ◼   ► but with Underscore spin on it.

00:52:12 ◼   ► Yeah, so I thought it was just gonna be like

00:52:14 ◼   ► better than your average 12 or 15 year old or what have you.

00:52:18 ◼   ► But which I guess, yes, this was,

00:52:20 ◼   ► but these were like way better than your average

00:52:23 ◼   ► 12 to 15 year old.

00:52:25 ◼   ► I remember vividly when I was, I don't know,

00:52:28 ◼   ► in like second or third grade,

00:52:29 ◼   ► which is younger than what we're talking about,

00:52:31 ◼   ► I had freehand drawn a picture of Garfield the cat

00:52:35 ◼   ► and done, if I may say so,

00:52:38 ◼   ► an extraordinarily impressive job of it.

00:52:40 ◼   ► This is my crowning achievement as an artist.

00:52:42 ◼   ► In fact, it's pretty much my only achievement as an artist.

00:52:46 ◼   ► And I would show all my classmates as a first or second grader what this was, and they would

00:52:51 ◼   ► all be like, "Oh, you just trace that.

00:52:54 ◼   ► And how do you fix this problem when you're in first or second grade?

00:52:57 ◼   ► And I've got to have this somewhere, but it'll take me 10 years to dig it up."

00:53:01 ◼   ► What I did to fix this problem of, "Oh, you just trace that," is I wrote in big, very

00:53:06 ◼   ► thick letters in all caps, "I did not trace this," next to the picture of Garfield.

00:53:10 ◼   ► That's a great artist put on their things actually if you look it's there and it's very fine print

00:53:14 ◼   ► but anyway

00:53:16 ◼   ► I was stunned by how good these were and and I and I'm really really genuinely impressed by them and and I

00:53:23 ◼   ► Want to see more of them so find some more and post them if you put them a matic

00:53:27 ◼   ► It's full of this crap

00:53:28 ◼   ► But uh yeah

00:53:28 ◼   ► No

00:53:28 ◼   ► like like I said in the hyper critical to see the secret all this stuff is

00:53:32 ◼   ► First of all as I stated and I think every single description on Instagram for these things

00:53:35 ◼   ► almost all these things are

00:53:39 ◼   ► from another like direct copies of a painting or a

00:53:43 ◼   ► poster or something

00:53:45 ◼   ► That was you know, probably on my wall from some thing

00:53:48 ◼   ► Like I didn't do the these aren't originals, right?

00:53:50 ◼   ► Even the ones that are just of random people are taken from like people from magazines or a composite of pictures and magazines

00:53:55 ◼   ► but most of them are just

00:53:58 ◼   ► exactly direct copies and all you need to make a

00:54:01 ◼   ► Perfect copy of like a cool poster or painting or a book cover or something else, you know

00:54:06 ◼   ► I was into all these fantasy book series or whatever, and I got these calendars with the big posters and stuff.

00:54:10 ◼   ► All you need to be able to make an amazing copy of what is already an amazing piece of art is the ability to know

00:54:17 ◼   ► when you've drawn something, have I drawn it like that thing over there, or have I messed it up in some way?

00:54:23 ◼   ► And that's it, right? And you just repeat that process and eventually you end up with

00:54:27 ◼   ► essentially a larger version of the book cover that you were copying the whole time. And the barrier most people have to doing that is

00:54:36 ◼   ► somewhat artistic ability, but mostly they will draw what they think is they see in the book cover and

00:54:41 ◼   ► then they will look down at the book cover and look down at what they've drawn on their giant poster sized piece of paper and

00:54:46 ◼   ► think yeah, that's about right and let us continue and if you do that repeatedly you end up with this terrible misshapen blob that only

00:54:53 ◼   ► looks vaguely like what was in the book cover and it doesn't look good.

00:54:55 ◼   ► So you gotta draw what's actually on the book cover. You have to know when you've drawn something

00:54:59 ◼   ► you know too big too small at the wrong angle

00:55:03 ◼   ► And then you too, if you have this one particular skill, can essentially make an amazing copy of

00:55:08 ◼   ► some other artist piece of work and get all the credit for making this great picture.

00:55:13 ◼   ► I mean most of the people who looked at this who know the the Dragonlance series

00:55:17 ◼   ► recognize these pictures because they're famous pictures from that series made by amazing

00:55:21 ◼   ► actual artists and they drew it from whole cloth from their head because they're actual artists. I was merely a very skilled mimic.

00:55:30 ◼   ► Well regardless of what you think you were and whether or not you think you were good I

00:55:34 ◼   ► Was and remain extremely impressed. I was good for my age

00:55:39 ◼   ► That's why I put most of these with obvious like as I get older it gets less impressive to do something like this when you're 18

00:55:43 ◼   ► But you do it when you're 13 you're like it's pretty good for a 13 year old even a 13 year old mimic

00:55:47 ◼   ► I did have some other originals and you've seen my crappy paintings that are around the house

00:55:50 ◼   ► I mean painting is obviously much harder

00:55:52 ◼   ► But they're from a similar time period when I'm like late single-digit ages or like getting close into my teens

00:55:58 ◼   ► But yeah, no, these have sentimental value because I had these things all over my walls for my childhood bedroom

00:56:05 ◼   ► So I was just happy to find them in the attic and have them all be intact and like, you know what?

00:56:10 ◼   ► I should record these because who knows what will happen to them in the future. Now, I've got them in digital form

00:56:14 ◼   ► Yep, real-time follow-up from my buddy Spencer

00:56:18 ◼   ► It appears that it is about 10 minutes per meg and a half of MP3 data if you really really really

00:56:27 ◼   ► Break it down. Well, that's using the HE AAC format. Thank you. Yes and

00:56:32 ◼   ► pretty well compressed so our dream of issuing an episode of

00:56:37 ◼   ► ATP on 17 floppy disks might actually be reasonably possible

00:56:40 ◼   ► Indeed

00:56:45 ◼   ► The theme songs gonna sound like crap

00:56:47 ◼   ► Yes, then you have to find someplace to buy floppy disks in bulk and a door and a drive to write the ball

00:56:53 ◼   ► I've got you covered there. Oh, yeah, I

00:56:56 ◼   ► I actually might have a USB floppy drive

00:56:59 ◼   ► around here somewhere.

00:57:00 ◼   ► I did have one very recently,

00:57:01 ◼   ► and I don't know what I did with it,

00:57:03 ◼   ► but I might be able to help out.

00:57:05 ◼   ► Regardless, iCloud storage has a new option now.

00:57:09 ◼   ► There's now two terabytes for 20 bucks a month.

00:57:12 ◼   ► That's cool, I guess.

00:57:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, before it was, it would cap out at one terabyte,

00:57:15 ◼   ► and that's actually the plan that Tiff and I have

00:57:18 ◼   ► for our giant photo libraries, and that's nice.

00:57:21 ◼   ► However, before, if you needed more than one terabyte,

00:57:24 ◼   ► probably for photos, you basically just couldn't.

00:57:26 ◼   ► There was no option.

00:57:28 ◼   ► Now there is, now you can go to two terabytes,

00:57:30 ◼   ► which is nice.

00:57:31 ◼   ► Twice the money, twice the space, okay.

00:57:33 ◼   ► Still, I think it's not insanely competitive

00:57:37 ◼   ► on that pricing, but it's not too terrible

00:57:39 ◼   ► and it's nice to have the option.

00:57:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, as you pointed out, if you don't have the option,

00:57:43 ◼   ► you just feel terrible.

00:57:44 ◼   ► My brother was in this situation with his photo library.

00:57:46 ◼   ► He has a similar size Sony camera to me,

00:57:49 ◼   ► but he got his many years ago and he has multiple kids

00:57:51 ◼   ► and he shoots everything in RAW.

00:57:53 ◼   ► And he was over a terabyte.

00:57:54 ◼   ► I was like, "How can you be over a terabyte?

00:57:57 ◼   ► Your oldest kid is like three, but he takes a lot of pictures, and then RAWs are really

00:58:00 ◼   ► big."

00:58:01 ◼   ► But anyway, he was over a terabyte, so he couldn't use the iCloud Photos library.

00:58:06 ◼   ► And he just had to find other ways to back up his stuff.

00:58:10 ◼   ► And it was like, "Jesus, kind of a shame."

00:58:12 ◼   ► There's no amount of money he could give to Apple to say, "Please, just take my photos."

00:58:16 ◼   ► And now, finally, they offer a two-terabyte option.

00:58:18 ◼   ► So I excitedly sent him an iMessage to say, "Hey, you can finally upload your photo library."

00:58:22 ◼   ► No, after the summer I'm over two terabytes too.

00:58:25 ◼   ► - My solution is actually very simple.

00:58:27 ◼   ► - Delete photos.

00:58:29 ◼   ► - Anything that is being shot by a real camera

00:58:32 ◼   ► first goes into Lightroom.

00:58:34 ◼   ► And Lightroom is where I do all the picking,

00:58:36 ◼   ► all the editing, then when I'm done with processing an event

00:58:41 ◼   ► I export all those as very high quality JPEGs

00:58:44 ◼   ► into Photos app.

00:58:46 ◼   ► 'Cause basically RAW never goes into photos

00:58:50 ◼   ► because Lightroom is better at it, first of all,

00:58:52 ◼   ► and also just for that, for again, these space reasons

00:58:55 ◼   ► of syncing these to all the devices,

00:58:57 ◼   ► even thumbnail or not, and then speed,

00:59:00 ◼   ► and then catalog size, and iCloud limits of space like this,

00:59:03 ◼   ► so that kind of system is much more cumbersome,

00:59:07 ◼   ► but does result in a way better photo experience,

00:59:10 ◼   ► with the bonus that when I import an event into photos,

00:59:14 ◼   ► because I've already picked all the crappy photos out

00:59:17 ◼   ► and have only exported perfectly processed awesome ones,

00:59:20 ◼   ► it looks like it does in Apple commercials and demos,

00:59:22 ◼   ► where all the pictures are perfect.

00:59:25 ◼   ► 'Cause normally, if you look at my raw Lightroom library,

00:59:28 ◼   ► before everything gets picked through and edited,

00:59:31 ◼   ► you have a million pictures of the same thing

00:59:33 ◼   ► where I was trying to get exactly the right shot,

00:59:35 ◼   ► half these are blurry or mis-exposed or whatever else,

00:59:38 ◼   ► and it does not look anything like the Apple commercials.

00:59:41 ◼   ► But my photos library actually looks pretty close

00:59:43 ◼   ► a lot of the time because it is only

00:59:45 ◼   ► receiving the edited ones.

00:59:46 ◼   ► - This is another example where it seems like Apple

00:59:48 ◼   ► doesn't quite understand how at least some set

00:59:50 ◼   ► of its users use its products.

00:59:53 ◼   ► Like, because I think everybody who is even remotely

00:59:55 ◼   ► into photography or has kids and likes to take pictures

00:59:58 ◼   ► of them ends up with exactly like you said,

00:59:59 ◼   ► a photo library filled with tons of pictures.

01:00:02 ◼   ► Some of them are just a mess.

01:00:03 ◼   ► And then in the good ones, there's like,

01:00:05 ◼   ► it's not like you're in, even if you're not in burst mode,

01:00:07 ◼   ► you take 50 pictures of the kid blowing out the candles

01:00:10 ◼   ► to try to get the one shot, right?

01:00:12 ◼   ► Everybody does that.

01:00:12 ◼   ► That's how you take, that's the secret to photography,

01:00:14 ◼   ► is take a ton of pictures.

01:00:15 ◼   ► then hopefully you'll find one good one out of a thousand,

01:00:18 ◼   ► and eventually if you're really good,

01:00:19 ◼   ► one good one out of 500, right?

01:00:21 ◼   ► But you still have all those pictures,

01:00:23 ◼   ► and I guess the smart thing to do

01:00:24 ◼   ► is to delete the other ones,

01:00:25 ◼   ► but if you have any sort of pack rat tendencies,

01:00:28 ◼   ► you're like, well, even though these aren't the best picture

01:00:30 ◼   ► maybe someday I'll wanna look back on the one

01:00:33 ◼   ► where they make a funny face or whatever, you know?

01:00:34 ◼   ► You don't wanna, like, there's the really excellent pictures

01:00:37 ◼   ► that they graduate to could appear in an Apple ad,

01:00:40 ◼   ► but there's kind of mediocre ones that are still endearing.

01:00:42 ◼   ► Like I have lots of pictures of my kids making funny faces

01:00:44 ◼   ► that you'd never see in an app land,

01:00:46 ◼   ► or maybe it's even a little bit out of focus

01:00:48 ◼   ► as they were running out of the frame,

01:00:49 ◼   ► but it's like a funny scene or something.

01:00:51 ◼   ► I don't want to delete those, right?

01:00:52 ◼   ► But you do want to have a photo library

01:00:55 ◼   ► that is just the good ones.

01:00:56 ◼   ► I do that with the favorites feature,

01:00:58 ◼   ► which is putting the hearts in them or whatever.

01:00:59 ◼   ► But imagine if they had something

01:01:01 ◼   ► that supported Marco's workflow,

01:01:02 ◼   ► which I would do if it was all within one app,

01:01:04 ◼   ► which is upload the RAWs, go through them, sort them out,

01:01:08 ◼   ► pick the ones that you really like, do the adjustments,

01:01:10 ◼   ► burn down to JPEG, and then hide everything

01:01:13 ◼   ► and it doesn't make the cut.

01:01:15 ◼   ► I guess they would still be forced to allow you

01:01:17 ◼   ► to upload everything for backup purposes,

01:01:19 ◼   ► but it would sure make browsing a lot easier

01:01:22 ◼   ► if you didn't have to choose between delete forever

01:01:25 ◼   ► and ever and ever, and mostly don't show those.

01:01:27 ◼   ► And I know they have the ability to hide pictures,

01:01:29 ◼   ► and again, they have favoriting and stuff like that,

01:01:31 ◼   ► so they kind of give a hybrid solution,

01:01:33 ◼   ► but the fact that Marco has to use two apps

01:01:35 ◼   ► to do what I think is a very reasonable workflow

01:01:37 ◼   ► is kind of a shame.

01:01:39 ◼   ► And the two terabyte option for 20 bucks,

01:01:40 ◼   ► like Apple. I know not a lot of people do this, but technologically speaking, and financially

01:01:48 ◼   ► speaking and business practice speaking, it's not that much harder to offer three terabytes

01:01:52 ◼   ► for 30 and four terabytes for 40. I can keep going with this crazy sequence. And like,

01:01:58 ◼   ► I don't know how much your storage costs. Hell, put it on a different curve that's not

01:02:02 ◼   ► linear. But either way, like, I bet there are people out there, I know one of them,

01:02:07 ◼   ► with libraries that are bigger than two terabytes,

01:02:09 ◼   ► and they will pay you more money for more storage.

01:02:12 ◼   ► I know that's weird sounding, but it will happen.

01:02:14 ◼   ► So it would be great if Apple didn't wait another two years

01:02:17 ◼   ► before they offered the three terabyte option.

01:02:19 ◼   ► For more money, for more money, Apple.

01:02:21 ◼   ► - Well, and I don't see my two app solution

01:02:25 ◼   ► changing anytime soon, because for this to change

01:02:28 ◼   ► realistically anytime soon, you would either need

01:02:32 ◼   ► the Photos app to really have more pro-style editing

01:02:36 ◼   ► controls and mechanics and workflows possible,

01:02:39 ◼   ► which it really still doesn't.

01:02:40 ◼   ► It is better than iPhoto used to be,

01:02:43 ◼   ► but not good enough for really pro editing.

01:02:47 ◼   ► And it seems like Apple is also not very interested

01:02:50 ◼   ► in making it so.

01:02:52 ◼   ► Or you'd have to have Lightroom get a lot better

01:02:55 ◼   ► at cloud stuff.

01:02:57 ◼   ► And given Adobe's history there,

01:02:59 ◼   ► they've tried a Lightroom-like or directly Lightroom

01:03:03 ◼   ► cloud service something like three or four times by now,

01:03:06 ◼   ► and they've all had really big flaws

01:03:08 ◼   ► and really big problems.

01:03:09 ◼   ► So I think both of those are unlikely to be solved

01:03:12 ◼   ► in the foreseeable future, so this is left undone

01:03:16 ◼   ► and I will be using two apps for a very long time,

01:03:18 ◼   ► as probably a lot of other people do.

01:03:20 ◼   ► Or they just put everything in Lightroom

01:03:21 ◼   ► and don't touch photos.

01:03:23 ◼   ► - Fair enough.

01:03:24 ◼   ► We still have predictions for next week's event to cover,

01:03:28 ◼   ► but there's been a big brouhaha about tax stuff

01:03:32 ◼   ► Apple in Ireland and we should attempt to briefly cover it. Kids, this is when you look at the time

01:03:40 ◼   ► count and see exactly how long this chapter lasts. So the short, short version, which was actually

01:03:47 ◼   ► summarized really, really well in a Vox article that we'll have in the show notes or an article

01:03:51 ◼   ► on Vox, I should say. The short, short version, as I understand it, is the European Union, which

01:03:58 ◼   ► has some amount of governing power in general over Ireland as a member of the European Union,

01:04:03 ◼   ► although they have no power over Ireland's taxing rules and situation, has come to the conclusion

01:04:11 ◼   ► that Apple and Ireland have some sort of backroom deal that is beneficial to Apple, and that's

01:04:17 ◼   ► against the non-competitive rules of the European Union. So guess what? Apple owes somebody, I guess

01:04:23 ◼   ► Ireland owes Ireland 13 billion euros, something to that effect. Interestingly, well, uninterestingly,

01:04:31 ◼   ► Apple says no freaking way. But interestingly, Ireland is saying no freaking way, which you

01:04:38 ◼   ► would think here it is, they are setting, they are set up, they are alley-ooped, that's

01:04:44 ◼   ► a basketball thing, Marco. They have been given the alley-oop for 13 billion euros.

01:04:51 ◼   ► And they're saying, "No, thank you."

01:04:53 ◼   ► And it appears that the best in—well, the super simple explanation for that is they

01:05:00 ◼   ► don't want to appear unfriendly to the many corporations that have based their European

01:05:05 ◼   ► operations out of Ireland, because Ireland is the Delaware of Europe for Americans.

01:05:14 ◼   ► And so that's the extraordinarily abridged summary.

01:05:19 ◼   ► My two cents on it, I don't feel like Apple has done anything wrong, but I also am not

01:05:24 ◼   ► so sure that these laws, I'm not so sure these laws are really correct as written.

01:05:29 ◼   ► I think both the American laws about money earned elsewhere and repatriating that money

01:05:35 ◼   ► seem kind of backwards and messed up.

01:05:37 ◼   ► The Irish laws, from an outsider's point of view, seem like maybe they should be a little

01:05:42 ◼   ► more aggressive on collecting taxes.

01:05:44 ◼   ► But from what little I've read on this, and admittedly it has not been a lot, it doesn't

01:05:49 ◼   ► feel to me like Apple has done very much wrong, they just haven't exactly been forthcoming

01:05:53 ◼   ► with stuff that maybe morally they should have paid even if legally they didn't have

01:05:57 ◼   ► to. So Marco, it appears you have some thoughts on this. Go ahead.

01:06:01 ◼   ► - I'll make mine quick because the more I learn about this, the less I have to say about

01:06:05 ◼   ► it basically because it's very complicated. And it is, there's multiple sides of this.

01:06:11 ◼   ► I think the, there's like the European politics side of it, which, that's politics, you know.

01:06:19 ◼   ► Who cares, it isn't really a tech topic.

01:06:21 ◼   ► Then there's the US basically tax haven side of it

01:06:26 ◼   ► where you have companies that if they divert

01:06:30 ◼   ► all their international sales to international subsidiaries

01:06:34 ◼   ► and don't bring the cash back into the US,

01:06:36 ◼   ► they basically can pay no US tax on it.

01:06:39 ◼   ► So Tim Cook is going around basically like,

01:06:42 ◼   ► obviously taking advantage of all these same things

01:06:44 ◼   ► that most big companies do.

01:06:47 ◼   ► And I think they are honestly morally a little tricky

01:06:51 ◼   ► or worse, but that is what's legal.

01:06:56 ◼   ► And so there are these giant loopholes and workarounds

01:07:00 ◼   ► in our tax code that allow big companies to do this.

01:07:04 ◼   ► So the big companies do it.

01:07:05 ◼   ► Tim Cook as the CEO is basically responsible

01:07:10 ◼   ► for doing this.

01:07:11 ◼   ► Like if he didn't do stuff like this,

01:07:12 ◼   ► if Apple didn't use all the same tax saving schemes

01:07:17 ◼   ► as other big companies do that are perfectly legal,

01:07:20 ◼   ► at least in the US,

01:07:21 ◼   ► ignoring the European politics side of this for now,

01:07:24 ◼   ► if Apple didn't do all the same things,

01:07:26 ◼   ► the shareholders would have Tim Cook's head

01:07:28 ◼   ► because he'd be basically throwing away billions of dollars.

01:07:31 ◼   ► So basically, as long as these things continue to be

01:07:35 ◼   ► the legal way to do things in the US

01:07:37 ◼   ► that all other big companies do,

01:07:38 ◼   ► Apple has to do them as well.

01:07:40 ◼   ► Otherwise, Tim Cook would be fired or sued.

01:07:42 ◼   ► So, you know, they have to do it.

01:07:45 ◼   ► However, I don't believe that they have to do

01:07:49 ◼   ► as much campaigning as Tim Cook does

01:07:52 ◼   ► about how the US must change its tax code

01:07:56 ◼   ► to basically give them a huge tax break

01:07:59 ◼   ► to bring that money back in.

01:08:01 ◼   ► 'Cause so the whole, the summary of this basically

01:08:04 ◼   ► is that if you keep the money offshore,

01:08:05 ◼   ► you don't have to pay US tax.

01:08:06 ◼   ► If you bring it back into the US

01:08:08 ◼   ► from your international subsidiaries,

01:08:10 ◼   ► you have to pay US tax on it,

01:08:11 ◼   ► minus whatever you paid in foreign tax.

01:08:13 ◼   ► So the idea is you don't have to end up paying double tax,

01:08:17 ◼   ► you just have to pay at least the US tax.

01:08:20 ◼   ► And if the foreign tax is higher,

01:08:21 ◼   ► that's your deal with the foreign government to handle.

01:08:24 ◼   ► But if you end up, like you have to pay something.

01:08:27 ◼   ► And Apple basically is paying no tax

01:08:29 ◼   ► on all their European earnings.

01:08:31 ◼   ► So that's the high level overview.

01:08:34 ◼   ► I apologize if I got into these details wrong.

01:08:36 ◼   ► And Tim Cook is going around in all these public statements

01:08:39 ◼   ► and things basically campaigning Washington

01:08:43 ◼   ► and the public to support him in this effort

01:08:45 ◼   ► to have corporate tax reform to let them bring in

01:08:49 ◼   ► this international money into the US at a,

01:08:51 ◼   ► what appears to be the goal

01:08:54 ◼   ► of a substantially reduced tax rate.

01:08:56 ◼   ► And me, as a person who makes money worldwide

01:09:00 ◼   ► but pays all my taxes in the great state of New York,

01:09:02 ◼   ► I think that's BS.

01:09:04 ◼   ► I think if the companies can do all these little tricks

01:09:09 ◼   ► stuff by basically applying lots of accountants and lawyers

01:09:13 ◼   ► and loopholes to save themselves billions of dollars.

01:09:16 ◼   ► Well, I hope the government fixes that,

01:09:18 ◼   ► 'cause that seems like a poor allocation of the tax burden.

01:09:23 ◼   ► But for Tim Cook personally, to use the same level

01:09:28 ◼   ► of energy that he was using for the FBI fight

01:09:31 ◼   ► for our privacy, to basically try to have that same energy

01:09:35 ◼   ► being spent on, I demand that we be able to bring our money

01:09:39 ◼   ► back into the US and to get a discount on our taxes?

01:09:42 ◼   ► No, that's not morally defensible, it's just not.

01:09:47 ◼   ► So I don't support Tim Cook in that.

01:09:50 ◼   ► I think, yeah, if they wanna do the same loopholes, fine,

01:09:53 ◼   ► but don't go complaining in public

01:09:57 ◼   ► that the US needs to allow you to bring your money back in

01:10:00 ◼   ► and not pay your share of taxes on it.

01:10:01 ◼   ► No, you should pay your taxes

01:10:03 ◼   ► the way all of us pay our taxes.

01:10:05 ◼   ► - Well, he's not the same as the rest of us,

01:10:07 ◼   ► so I think most of his defense,

01:10:08 ◼   ► because he's the head of a giant multinational corporation that sells physical goods overseas, right?

01:10:12 ◼   ► You know, and you're not doing that.

01:10:13 ◼   ► But I think most of his defense seems to be centered around the idea that has been put forth by the

01:10:18 ◼   ► the European Union and everything that

01:10:20 ◼   ► two things, that Apple did something, like, wrong

01:10:25 ◼   ► like, they're not gonna say illegal, because it wasn't illegal, but like,

01:10:28 ◼   ► sneaky and wrong.

01:10:30 ◼   ► And that

01:10:32 ◼   ► it was sneaky and wrong back then, and therefore you owe all those back taxes

01:10:36 ◼   ► Like it was, you know, even though you and Ireland agreed at the time that you agreed on it

01:10:40 ◼   ► You didn't know this but it was against our anti-competitive laws of the European Union

01:10:44 ◼   ► So we want you to pay not from now on

01:10:46 ◼   ► not going forward because that's I feel like that's between the European Union and Ireland in terms of

01:10:50 ◼   ► Deciding like are some Irish tax laws in violation of the anti-competitive thing

01:10:56 ◼   ► but basically they don't want like one country like the Delaware of Europe to be able to attract all the economic activity

01:11:03 ◼   ► Starving out the other countries like they're trying to keep the countries from undercutting each other and hurting it

01:11:07 ◼   ► It's supposed to be a big, you know European Union. You're not supposed to have

01:11:10 ◼   ► like one country one stronger country crushing another one with the power of its tax subsidies for

01:11:17 ◼   ► Big companies or whatever. So that's what the EU is trying to do

01:11:20 ◼   ► I feel like that's between EU and Ireland to figure out what the deal is there

01:11:23 ◼   ► but I think Apple's defense is we're not a sneaky criminal and

01:11:26 ◼   ► if you've decided if you guys working out amongst yourselves Ireland European and whatever you got to do if you decide

01:11:33 ◼   ► that going forward this isn't going to be the deal anymore, change your laws, we'll comply with them,

01:11:36 ◼   ► but we don't want to pay you back taxes on 13 billion. And the US laws being like you pay the

01:11:42 ◼   ► difference in taxes, I feel like it is kind of weird for physical goods that you would that you

01:11:46 ◼   ► sell in a particular place. Like tax that where if you sell something, I mean it's sneaky that you

01:11:51 ◼   ► sell something in France and you get tax-verted in Ireland, so that's still kind of messed up, but

01:11:55 ◼   ► the idea that the only reasonable tax system is no matter where you sell your things in the entire

01:12:01 ◼   ► world because the corporate headquarters is in the United States that you pay United States

01:12:05 ◼   ► tax rates, I think that is, like, you need some amount of diversity in the world. You

01:12:10 ◼   ► need to allow countries to have lower tax rates to encourage economic activity. Countries

01:12:15 ◼   ► out of the EU, I'm sure there's plenty of countries elsewhere in the world that are

01:12:19 ◼   ► not in the EU and not in the US that have lower corporate tax rates, right, or like

01:12:23 ◼   ► Hong Kong or Singapore or whatever, I don't know, Singapore is a bad example, but you

01:12:28 ◼   ► say like the US law is basically I don't care what your tax laws are if you are

01:12:32 ◼   ► US cooperation and you make money then we tax you at the US rate I don't care

01:12:37 ◼   ► if we're taxing you on a sale that was made from a store in some other country

01:12:40 ◼   ► to a person at a letter country I don't care about that I want your money

01:12:44 ◼   ► because you're a US cooperation because I feel like that's not a great system

01:12:47 ◼   ► and it could lead to situations where people don't want to incorporate in the

01:12:50 ◼   ► United States and they incorporate in the the global Delaware instead or

01:12:54 ◼   ► whatever. But anyway, Tim Cook's sort of anger about this, I feel like mostly has been motivated

01:13:00 ◼   ► by the injustice of having to pay essentially back taxes that are not owed. It's as if the IRS says,

01:13:05 ◼   ► you know, the tax law, it's been in effect for the past decade, we decided that was actually not a

01:13:09 ◼   ► good tax law. So we're changing it. And by the way, pretend like it was in effect for the past

01:13:14 ◼   ► 30 years or so. And you all, you all saw back taxes on it. So he's going against that, because

01:13:18 ◼   ► I feel like that's just not fair, right? Who knows if that would actually happen, but that's what

01:13:21 ◼   ► we can play on and the idea that they're sneakier wrong which is borderline

01:13:25 ◼   ► because it's pretty sneaky like everything having to do with tax

01:13:28 ◼   ► avoidance is pretty sneaky I don't think Tim Cook is responsible for setting up

01:13:32 ◼   ► these sneaky laws but on the other hand it was like sneaky between a corporation

01:13:36 ◼   ► and a government like again Ireland was all for it because they want their

01:13:40 ◼   ► little 0.005 percent 0.005 percent of a hoe-jillion dollars is way better than

01:13:46 ◼   ► 35 percent of zero dollars because Apple doesn't do its thing in Ireland anymore

01:13:49 ◼   ► So it's kind of gross and kind of sneaky between Apple, but I really don't think

01:13:54 ◼   ► saying that they owe back taxes makes all that much sense unless like I don't

01:13:59 ◼   ► know what the European Union process unless there's some sort of process

01:14:01 ◼   ► where they can prove that as it turns out that that Ireland law tax law was

01:14:07 ◼   ► always against the EU Charter and then you got to work something out. And as for

01:14:11 ◼   ► repatriating the money, again I think it's kind of weird that the US wants all

01:14:15 ◼   ► the taxes to be at the US rate no matter where you sell things. I don't feel like

01:14:19 ◼   ► that's a scalable solution to a world economy.

01:14:23 ◼   ► But if you're going to do that, yeah,

01:14:26 ◼   ► like I don't think Tim Cook's saying,

01:14:27 ◼   ► "We would like to bring that money back,

01:14:29 ◼   ► "but give us a lower rate."

01:14:30 ◼   ► He can say that all he wants, but I don't think it's good.

01:14:35 ◼   ► Everyone wants to have lower taxes,

01:14:36 ◼   ► and if you're a corporation saying,

01:14:38 ◼   ► "Oh, we totally bring that money back."

01:14:39 ◼   ► It's like holding the money ransom.

01:14:41 ◼   ► We'll bring these trillions back, just give us a lower rate.

01:14:45 ◼   ► And I feel like that's not gonna go anywhere.

01:14:47 ◼   ► And I'm not quite sure why Tim Cook is lobbying for that much because honestly

01:14:51 ◼   ► Does he need that money back into the US or is that just trying to be like an olive branch?

01:14:55 ◼   ► You're like we totally bring that money back because I can imagine

01:14:57 ◼   ► The US lowering the rate and then Apple going now we'll stick with zero zero point five percent

01:15:02 ◼   ► thanks a lot about changing that law and everything but

01:15:04 ◼   ► 0.005 percent versus that like I don't know the details of why he would want to bring it back specifically

01:15:10 ◼   ► Um, but as for like the you know, the shareholders are people getting angry at Tim Cook, you know

01:15:15 ◼   ► He does that all the time in terms of like telling the shareholder if you don't you know

01:15:19 ◼   ► We know that this is not the best way to make money

01:15:22 ◼   ► But if you don't like it like, you know, the the soul, you know

01:15:24 ◼   ► Sustainable energy or whatever maybe you human rights many times

01:15:28 ◼   ► He said to investors if you're in it for the short term and you just want to see this thing

01:15:32 ◼   ► Just get out of the stock. There's plenty of other stocks you can buy, right?

01:15:34 ◼   ► So I think it's totally within reason for him to take a similar ethical stand on tax law here

01:15:40 ◼   ► He just hasn't chosen to and I think there's two parts at one. I don't think this is the same category as

01:15:46 ◼   ► You know, it's I don't think it's it really is a moral issue

01:15:50 ◼   ► Maybe it's a mild ethical issue

01:15:53 ◼   ► But morally speaking the environment and human rights are way bigger causes than arguing over

01:15:57 ◼   ► Whether tax dollars go to the EU or to the US or whatever

01:16:01 ◼   ► It's just it's not quite the same thing

01:16:04 ◼   ► It's just shuffling paper around and I know there are consequences of all that and so on and so forth

01:16:08 ◼   ► but I think it's hard to draw a really straight line between arguments between these giants about

01:16:14 ◼   ► tax law and things like the environment, which is like, doesn't recognize borders and is shared by

01:16:19 ◼   ► the entire planet and has irreparable effects. And then it just seems like him personally,

01:16:26 ◼   ► and Apple as a corporation, don't feel like they are on the wrong side of this. If they did,

01:16:31 ◼   ► if they felt like they were on the wrong side of this and needed to change something,

01:16:34 ◼   ► they would change it and they would go to the shareholders and say, "If you don't like us

01:16:36 ◼   ► doing this then fine but you know it's I think you don't get to be the CEO of one

01:16:41 ◼   ► of the biggest companies in the world by doing things saying like I know our tax

01:16:46 ◼   ► rate is X but I just don't feel it's ethically right for us to pay that low

01:16:49 ◼   ► should we should pay some extra taxes this year like there's a limit to how

01:16:52 ◼   ► far people's minds can bend to rather the other way I think your mind

01:16:59 ◼   ► eventually bends to the idea that voluntarily paying more taxes than you

01:17:03 ◼   ► need to is not a good business plan. And so that's, I think that's where they're at. And

01:17:08 ◼   ► maybe in his deathbed, Tim Cook will say, "You know what? I should have brought that

01:17:11 ◼   ► money back and just pay the taxes so that the bridge that collapsed with my loved one

01:17:15 ◼   ► on it didn't collapse because America doesn't know how to fund infrastructure anymore. And

01:17:19 ◼   ► if only I had given 20 trillion more dollars, it would have helped." But I don't know. I

01:17:24 ◼   ► feel like it's, you know, he's a company man, he's a good CEO, and this does not rise to

01:17:30 ◼   ► the level of human rights or the environment.

01:17:32 ◼   ► - Well then that's why it kind of rubbed me the wrong way,

01:17:35 ◼   ► like how much Cook is kind of trying to bring the public

01:17:39 ◼   ► to support him on this.

01:17:40 ◼   ► He's kind of bringing this fight into the public

01:17:42 ◼   ► with his statements.

01:17:44 ◼   ► Both the Ireland thing-- - The public doesn't care.

01:17:45 ◼   ► - Right, both the Ireland thing and the corporate tax rate

01:17:49 ◼   ► repatriation thing.

01:17:51 ◼   ► And it just seems like, this is just one of those reminders

01:17:55 ◼   ► that for all the good things they do

01:17:57 ◼   ► and for all the good people there,

01:17:58 ◼   ► Apple is still a giant corporation.

01:18:01 ◼   ► and the CEO of it is still the CEO of a giant corporation

01:18:03 ◼   ► and one of his main jobs is trying to pay

01:18:05 ◼   ► as little tax as possible and trying to do

01:18:07 ◼   ► all sorts of tricks and it's a little bit weird.

01:18:09 ◼   ► It's only a little bit weird that Cook seems to not sense

01:18:14 ◼   ► how bringing this to the public is probably not a good use

01:18:17 ◼   ► of that political capital.

01:18:20 ◼   ► - I don't think he's bringing it to the public

01:18:21 ◼   ► to convince them over at Apple's side.

01:18:23 ◼   ► He's doing damage control.

01:18:24 ◼   ► What he doesn't want, if he doesn't say anything,

01:18:26 ◼   ► what comes out of this is just the repeated idea

01:18:28 ◼   ► that Apple cheats on its taxes and doesn't pay its fair share.

01:18:31 ◼   ► And that's what he's coming out to say.

01:18:33 ◼   ► We don't cheat, we're not doing things against the law, we pay our fair share.

01:18:36 ◼   ► That's always his message.

01:18:37 ◼   ► And if he wasn't being attacked, because if he said nothing and just said, "Well, whatever,

01:18:41 ◼   ► the public doesn't care about this," eventually it would just be common knowledge that Apple

01:18:45 ◼   ► cheats on his taxes and doesn't pay its fair share.

01:18:48 ◼   ► And that's why he feels like he has to go to the public.

01:18:50 ◼   ► Now I think in general the public doesn't care about that that much anyway.

01:18:53 ◼   ► But I still think if he didn't come out and argue strongly against it, fast forward five

01:18:58 ◼   ► years and you make a joke about Apple not paying taxes and everyone will go, "Oh yeah,

01:19:01 ◼   ► Apple, those are the company that doesn't pay taxes."

01:19:03 ◼   ► Where in reality, all corporations don't pay taxes because they all use these loopholes,

01:19:07 ◼   ► but only Apple would be getting the bad PR for it, you know what I mean?

01:19:09 ◼   ► So I feel like that's why he is so vocal about it, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't

01:19:16 ◼   ► think it's a campaign to convince the world to call your Congressmen until Apple repatriated

01:19:20 ◼   ► a trillion dollars.

01:19:21 ◼   ► I don't think that's in anybody's head.

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01:22:07 ◼   ► - So as we record, it is Friday the 2nd of September

01:22:15 ◼   ► on the 7th, which is this coming Wednesday.

01:22:18 ◼   ► Convenient for our recording next week actually.

01:22:20 ◼   ► I didn't even think about that.

01:22:22 ◼   ► On the 7th, Apple will be releasing ostensibly

01:22:26 ◼   ► the new version of the iPhone,

01:22:28 ◼   ► which may or may not be called the iPhone 7.

01:22:31 ◼   ► It may or may not be announcing a new Apple Watch

01:22:35 ◼   ► and may or may not be releasing new MacBook Pros.

01:22:40 ◼   ► Thoughts on what's happening here.

01:22:43 ◼   ► I think we can all agree that there will be a new iPhone 7.

01:22:46 ◼   ► Well, sorry, I shouldn't say

01:22:50 ◼   ► that will be the name, just that there will be a new phone.

01:22:52 ◼   ► It sounds to me like it's pretty much a given

01:22:54 ◼   ► that it will not have a headphone jack.

01:22:58 ◼   ► I think I'm okay with that.

01:23:01 ◼   ► I'm not thrilled by it,

01:23:03 ◼   ► but I'm not devastated by it either.

01:23:05 ◼   ► - Well, this was the genius of Apple's PR campaign

01:23:08 ◼   ► over basically the entire spring and summer

01:23:11 ◼   ► of what seems, in retrospect,

01:23:13 ◼   ► and even seemed a bit like at the time,

01:23:15 ◼   ► what seemed like a very good controlled-leak campaign

01:23:18 ◼   ► to set expectations accordingly

01:23:21 ◼   ► and get all the anger out slowly over the whole summer.

01:23:24 ◼   ► So because we started hearing pretty clear rumors

01:23:27 ◼   ► about there being no headphone jack

01:23:29 ◼   ► from pretty well-known sources,

01:23:31 ◼   ► like pretty good publications, a long time ago.

01:23:33 ◼   ► So we've had the whole summer to get all mad about it.

01:23:36 ◼   ► And now we just kind of all accept it as,

01:23:38 ◼   ► okay, well yeah, this falls off on,

01:23:39 ◼   ► there's no headphone jack.

01:23:40 ◼   ► And like, had we not known that ahead of time by so long,

01:23:44 ◼   ► had so much time to get mad about it

01:23:45 ◼   ► and then finally accept it,

01:23:48 ◼   ► All that anger would have blown up next week

01:23:52 ◼   ► at the same time that Apple's using a design

01:23:54 ◼   ► for the third year in a row for the first time.

01:23:56 ◼   ► And by the way, if I may say again,

01:23:57 ◼   ► not a particularly great design.

01:23:59 ◼   ► So imagine the anger that that would have played

01:24:03 ◼   ► and the negative press coverage

01:24:04 ◼   ► that would have had on the product

01:24:06 ◼   ► that now probably won't happen as much.

01:24:08 ◼   ► I still think there will be some,

01:24:10 ◼   ► but I think it won't be nearly as much

01:24:11 ◼   ► as it would have been if we hadn't been able to stew about it

01:24:15 ◼   ► from Bloomberg and rumor sites for the entire summer.

01:24:17 ◼   ► Yeah, that's they did the best they could with that but there's a limit because I think

01:24:22 ◼   ► Almost everybody who goes to buy this new iPhone will not know that it has no iPhone Jack

01:24:28 ◼   ► So even though we are and the tech media which is really all Apple to do who's the interested in the story at all?

01:24:33 ◼   ► Months before it comes out the tech media and us who read the tech media. So that's all they can do, right?

01:24:38 ◼   ► So we're kind of getting over it and learning to deal with it and had all the think pieces about it and so on and so

01:24:43 ◼   ► But we are a tiny tiny sliver of the huge number of people who buy iPhones and pretty much to a first approximation

01:24:49 ◼   ► Every single person who goes into buy the new iPhone in you know

01:24:53 ◼   ► the first month or two is gonna be like wait, where's the headphone jack until the story goes on your local news and

01:24:59 ◼   ► USA Today and all sort of mainstream media that people watch and

01:25:05 ◼   ► Eventually the public will know what Apple has spared is

01:25:09 ◼   ► The incredible outrage that would have been if it was a surprise to us like Margo said like if the tech press also was blindsided

01:25:15 ◼   ► By it it would just be way way bigger, but I still think there will be a fairly substantial like speaking of tonight's show

01:25:22 ◼   ► Monologue worthy gags about the new iPhone not having a headphone port

01:25:27 ◼   ► Among the regular people who don't follow exactly what the new iPhone is going to be months in advance

01:25:31 ◼   ► and they'll learn about it when the product is announced and when it's released like everybody else and

01:25:37 ◼   ► and they'll get over it in their own time.

01:25:39 ◼   ► So I think Apple did the best it could with the PR campaign,

01:25:42 ◼   ► but we'll see if their timing is right on this

01:25:46 ◼   ► or if the future, time is on their side

01:25:50 ◼   ► or they're the wave of the future

01:25:51 ◼   ► as they have been so many other times.

01:25:52 ◼   ► I can tell you that the other day

01:25:54 ◼   ► I tried to plug my headphones into the lighting port

01:25:56 ◼   ► on my iPhone 6.

01:25:58 ◼   ► Obviously I've been stewing in the idea

01:26:00 ◼   ► that there won't be a headphone port for a long time,

01:26:02 ◼   ► but I got so far as that I touched the two of them together.

01:26:05 ◼   ► That's how far I got.

01:26:06 ◼   ► to start pressing, but I touched the two of them together.

01:26:09 ◼   ► And it's mostly because I've been thinking

01:26:11 ◼   ► for six months now or whatever it's been

01:26:13 ◼   ► about what it might be like to have lightning headphones.

01:26:16 ◼   ► And several months ago, I think I sort of can't,

01:26:18 ◼   ► my personal piece with this issue is that,

01:26:21 ◼   ► look, all I ever connect to my iPhone

01:26:23 ◼   ► are the ear pods that came with it.

01:26:26 ◼   ► If it comes with ear pods

01:26:27 ◼   ► that I can still plug into the phone, which it will, fine,

01:26:30 ◼   ► fine, then like, how does this, personally,

01:26:33 ◼   ► just me personally, not saying this is a good idea

01:26:35 ◼   ► the product so on and so forth just for me personally I really don't think this

01:26:38 ◼   ► change will affect my life except if this means that the extra number of

01:26:43 ◼   ► plugs and unplugs wear out my lighting port faster but other than that I think

01:26:47 ◼   ► my life won't change I'm also very interested in the you know rumors of the

01:26:51 ◼   ► wireless you know ear pod things and like I'll try them out I'll probably buy

01:26:58 ◼   ► a pair of those and give Apple some money because I'm kind of fascinated by

01:27:02 ◼   ► that idea but some yeah I don't know how much they're gonna cost gonna be a

01:27:05 ◼   ► hundred bucks I got some some person sent one to the show like someone who

01:27:09 ◼   ► works for like this headphone company whose name I can't remember I think was

01:27:11 ◼   ► like 801 something anyway but they're not why your list they have a wire from

01:27:16 ◼   ► one ear to the other that's what most of them do yeah and and on that wire is the

01:27:20 ◼   ► little clicker thing and I know they're not wired in the same way but that wire

01:27:25 ◼   ► going from one ear to the other even though it gives me a place for the

01:27:28 ◼   ► clicker still feels weird like it doesn't feel like they're wireless to me

01:27:32 ◼   ► I know they are like there's no connection to my jacket pocket and the

01:27:35 ◼   ► thing but it still feels strange to me so the rumors I see of Apple Apple

01:27:39 ◼   ► potentially having ones that literally don't have any wires on them I might

01:27:43 ◼   ► give that a try if it's an Apple thing but yeah I think I think we've covered

01:27:47 ◼   ► the headphone jack and the iPhone 7 as has been the case with most iPhones for

01:27:51 ◼   ► the past many years we feel like we know every single thing about it we feel like

01:27:54 ◼   ► We've seen pictures of the actual phone.

01:27:57 ◼   ► We know, the only thing we never know is like,

01:27:59 ◼   ► all right, A10 system on a chip will be better.

01:28:03 ◼   ► How much better?

01:28:04 ◼   ► Because that's the type of stuff that doesn't leak,

01:28:06 ◼   ► 'cause no one's slicing the top off the chip

01:28:07 ◼   ► and analyzing the die before the thing, but.

01:28:09 ◼   ► - Well, there was that one leak Geekbench thing

01:28:12 ◼   ► that showed it being about 50% faster,

01:28:14 ◼   ► which I don't know if that was real,

01:28:15 ◼   ► but they have made jumps of that magnitude before,

01:28:19 ◼   ► so it is certainly plausible that it might be 50% faster.

01:28:22 ◼   ► Looks should be cool.

01:28:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, and we get those type of rumors like,

01:28:26 ◼   ► is it gonna be way faster or a little bit faster?

01:28:27 ◼   ► And this one seems like another way faster one,

01:28:30 ◼   ► but we'll see.

01:28:31 ◼   ► But I think that is, it's kind of boring

01:28:33 ◼   ► for these Apple events,

01:28:35 ◼   ► especially like the next year event,

01:28:36 ◼   ► the 10th anniversary super thin phone

01:28:38 ◼   ► with like no home button and the touch ID

01:28:40 ◼   ► and the screen and the edge to edge,

01:28:41 ◼   ► like all those rumors that we're already getting.

01:28:43 ◼   ► It'll be kind of sad if we know everything about that one

01:28:45 ◼   ► before it comes out,

01:28:46 ◼   ► 'cause I would like to be surprised again,

01:28:47 ◼   ► but this seems, alas, not to be possible

01:28:50 ◼   ► when you sell so many hundreds of millions of these things.

01:28:53 ◼   ► It's impossible for the parts not to leak.

01:28:55 ◼   ► And for the September event,

01:28:57 ◼   ► like that's the headline attraction.

01:28:59 ◼   ► Every single rumor story has been saying,

01:29:02 ◼   ► don't look for Max, don't bother,

01:29:04 ◼   ► it's not the type of event.

01:29:05 ◼   ► So I'm already prepared not to see anything about Max.

01:29:09 ◼   ► I'm fine with the Max coming out at a later date.

01:29:12 ◼   ► - See that?

01:29:13 ◼   ► - You can't let it go?

01:29:15 ◼   ► - No, I mean, everyone is basically saying,

01:29:17 ◼   ► like everyone's basically reporting as fact now,

01:29:19 ◼   ► which sounds a lot like controlled leaks,

01:29:21 ◼   ► they're basically reporting as fact that

01:29:22 ◼   ► there won't be Macs announced, that that'll come later,

01:29:26 ◼   ► which of course, Macs are always coming later.

01:29:29 ◼   ► Linux will be great next year.

01:29:31 ◼   ► So I am not ready to let that go yet, if only because,

01:29:35 ◼   ► so we're pretty sure there's not gonna be iPads

01:29:36 ◼   ► at this event, and the phone updates are gonna be

01:29:39 ◼   ► not that major, not taking a lot of stage time,

01:29:44 ◼   ► so what the heck is gonna fall with time in the event?

01:29:46 ◼   ► Like if this is gonna be like the big fall event?

01:29:48 ◼   ► But it sounds like Apple Watch 2 is also pretty minor.

01:29:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, but two minor things.

01:29:53 ◼   ► First of all, you know how long they can go on

01:29:54 ◼   ► about any phone.

01:29:55 ◼   ► They'll be showing you a million pictures

01:29:57 ◼   ► from the dual camera.

01:29:58 ◼   ► They'll be showing you all the graphs

01:30:00 ◼   ► and they'll probably show iOS 10 features again.

01:30:03 ◼   ► And just like, it will take a while.

01:30:04 ◼   ► And then the watch, this is the first

01:30:07 ◼   ► and only significant update to the watch

01:30:09 ◼   ► besides the new colors and new bands.

01:30:10 ◼   ► They're gonna spend a long time on that,

01:30:11 ◼   ► especially if it's got, we have these tips from the,

01:30:15 ◼   ► not from the tipster, the non-tipster tips.

01:30:17 ◼   ► So who knows what the problem is.

01:30:19 ◼   ► Could be even more fabricated than stories about USB hubs.

01:30:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:30:24 ◼   ► - Sick burn.

01:30:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is the watch two, GPS,

01:30:27 ◼   ► which would be a big deal if it was true

01:30:29 ◼   ► because all we've been hearing from random rumors

01:30:33 ◼   ► over the past year or so is that Apple has learned

01:30:35 ◼   ► that pretty much the most important function

01:30:38 ◼   ► of the Apple Watch for most customers is fitness related

01:30:40 ◼   ► and people are still wearing Fitbits and stuff.

01:30:42 ◼   ► So, you know, if you have GPS on the watch itself,

01:30:44 ◼   ► that really changes the story in terms of applications

01:30:48 ◼   ► to keep track of your exercise and do running

01:30:49 ◼   ► if you wanna do it without your phone,

01:30:51 ◼   ► if that's a thing that people wanna do.

01:30:53 ◼   ► Improved waterproofing, which is hard to imagine

01:30:55 ◼   ► because Craig Hockenberry has taken something

01:30:56 ◼   ► like 150 swims in the ocean with his watch

01:30:59 ◼   ► and it's still going strong.

01:31:00 ◼   ► So I think the waterproofing is already pretty good.

01:31:03 ◼   ► The Apple Watch 1 will stick around at a lower price,

01:31:05 ◼   ► which is totally a Tim Cook thing to do,

01:31:06 ◼   ► but on the other hand, sounds crazy to me, but who knows?

01:31:10 ◼   ► - Please let the CPU die as fast as possible.

01:31:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:31:13 ◼   ► More health sensors did not make it again.