174: A Ding in the Room


00:00:00   Is there where's there a good summary of what the hell happened in the keynote? I'm or in your notes god damn it John

00:00:05   I didn't take good notes. What do you want from me?

00:00:08   You guys are the best

00:00:11   So we are here live

00:00:13   In California almost on vacation. We are in my hotel room. So any weird audio things that might or might not be here

00:00:21   That's a the park 55s fault. Definitely not ours. Yeah, so we just got out of the State of the Union and

00:00:26   So I guess there's a lot to cover here

00:00:28   I don't know how much we're gonna get to today because we have a bit of a time limit.

00:00:31   So let's just try to get started, huh?

00:00:33   Right. So what was the first thing that was covered in the keynote?

00:00:36   Was it... I don't even... It was all a blurt.

00:00:40   WatchOS. WatchOS was the first one.

00:00:41   It was WatchOS. Yes. Yes. Yes. WatchOS.

00:00:43   Holy crap. It turns out that WatchOS 3 is actually the first non-beta version of WatchOS, in my personal opinion.

00:00:51   Man, did it look good.

00:00:53   Well, we haven't used it yet. So we don't know...

00:00:55   I said "look." I said "look good." I didn't say "was good."

00:00:58   - Yeah, but honestly, no, I mean, you know,

00:01:00   I'm kind of a watch skeptic at this point.

00:01:02   - Are you? - A little bit.

00:01:03   But no, I mean, I think it looks great.

00:01:06   And I was really, really hoping that they would,

00:01:10   you know, kind of just rethink the watch,

00:01:13   rethink the app paradigm,

00:01:14   rethink the difference between the glances and the app

00:01:19   and everything else, and I think they did.

00:01:22   And it looks really good.

00:01:23   I'm very tentatively optimistic about it, honestly.

00:01:27   I think it shows that they are,

00:01:29   like you know by getting rid of the glances

00:01:30   and by consolidating the app with the face and everything,

00:01:34   it looks like they are actually willing to reconsider

00:01:37   and rethink fundamental things about how the watch works.

00:01:41   And that is awesome.

00:01:42   And 'cause you know, it kinda needed that.

00:01:44   I think the overall impression

00:01:48   that I think we're getting from Apple

00:01:50   about the watch during this is please use apps.

00:01:54   Like that's a kind of, like you know,

00:01:55   first of all, please make apps for it.

00:01:56   And then secondly, they are being much more forward

00:01:59   with users, including things like the complication

00:02:04   like gallery they showed off at the end

00:02:05   of the State of the Union there.

00:02:07   They're being more forward with users about

00:02:09   how they discover that they can put apps on their watch.

00:02:13   And by making the apps better, hopefully they'll make them

00:02:16   a little more sticky and useful for people.

00:02:19   So overall, it looks great, and I really hope

00:02:22   that it ends up performing and just being as good

00:02:25   as it looks in the keynote.

00:02:27   - Yeah, as the one of the three of us

00:02:28   that I think is most enthusiastic about the watch,

00:02:31   I was overjoyed by what I saw.

00:02:32   It looked unbelievable.

00:02:34   Apple apparently has made tremendous strides

00:02:36   on making app launching considerably quicker.

00:02:39   As far as we know, all of that is software.

00:02:42   It doesn't require any new watch hardware,

00:02:44   which presumably is coming sometime soon,

00:02:46   but no formal mention was made of it.

00:02:48   It looked awesome.

00:02:50   And there were some other features

00:02:51   that I thought were really good.

00:02:53   the emergency thing that they did.

00:02:55   So if you mash down on what was once

00:02:57   the completely useless contacts button,

00:02:59   but is now the, like, what is that,

00:03:02   the glances button or not glances,

00:03:03   but like the app switch.

00:03:04   - It's like the app switch.

00:03:05   - Dock button, right?

00:03:06   - Dock, yes, right, dock.

00:03:07   So anyway, so you mash down on the dock button

00:03:09   and it shows you what today is the three sliders,

00:03:12   which is power off, power reserve, and lock device.

00:03:14   Well, if you hold down on the button long enough,

00:03:17   it will eventually place an emergency call

00:03:20   to the local emergency number in the particular locality

00:03:24   that you're sitting in.

00:03:26   And so if you're in Hong Kong

00:03:27   and you have an American watch,

00:03:29   it will call whatever the appropriate number is in Hong Kong.

00:03:31   If you're in America,

00:03:32   regardless if your watch happens to be British,

00:03:33   it will call 911.

00:03:35   It's very, very cool.

00:03:36   And it will also, I guess,

00:03:37   send a push notification to emergency contacts

00:03:40   with your location and I guess whereabouts or whatever.

00:03:44   It looked really, really cool.

00:03:46   - Yeah, this is, I mean,

00:03:47   I worry a little bit about how easy it is to invoke,

00:03:52   like if you just hold down the button,

00:03:53   because it is fairly, you know,

00:03:55   it's not that uncommon to accidentally hold down

00:03:59   a button on your watch if it's like

00:04:00   pressing against something.

00:04:01   So to have an action that only requires it to be held down

00:04:05   for a long time with no additional confirmation step,

00:04:07   I think there's a bit of a risk of false alarms there.

00:04:10   But overall, the idea of this feature is really nice.

00:04:13   You know, implementation details aside,

00:04:14   the idea of it is great.

00:04:16   and it's yet one more reason why some people

00:04:19   might want the watch, yet one more benefit

00:04:21   some people might get from it.

00:04:22   I don't expect this to be extremely widely used,

00:04:25   but for the people who do use it,

00:04:26   it'll make a really big difference in their life,

00:04:29   and that's nothing to sneeze at.

00:04:32   - I think you can't make it too complicated though,

00:04:34   because if you're in a situation,

00:04:36   you can't really make it be an interaction,

00:04:39   you can't really make it so, okay, well,

00:04:41   to call 911, do this, then look at your watch,

00:04:44   then place your finger precisely to touch this thing,

00:04:46   then do that, then confirm and double confirm

00:04:49   and insert both keys.

00:04:49   It really has to be the all I can do in this injured state

00:04:53   is grow up from my watch, feel a physical button,

00:04:55   and hold it down for a really long time.

00:04:57   And even that may be beyond the physical abilities of someone

00:05:00   who's in a real dire emergency.

00:05:03   I mean, a more clever-- well, I don't know if more clever--

00:05:06   and even more prone to false alarms implementation

00:05:08   would be if it notices your heart rate going down

00:05:12   to unsafe levels or something.

00:05:13   but then again, some people have really low heart rates,

00:05:16   and I don't know, you know, like,

00:05:18   you're trying to make it sort of the,

00:05:20   this watch is actively monitoring

00:05:23   whether this person is alive and healthy,

00:05:24   and when they're not, it sends notifications.

00:05:26   I don't have to call 911, but at least sending

00:05:27   their location out to their emergency contact or whatever.

00:05:32   I mean, overall, for all the Watch 3 things,

00:05:35   I don't wanna be mean to Apple,

00:05:38   but it kinda makes me wonder,

00:05:40   the watch has been in development for a long time,

00:05:42   And they launched it with one of only two physical buttons

00:05:46   on the device being a feature that basically nobody used.

00:05:48   And they fixed that in watchOS 3.

00:05:50   Great.

00:05:50   Good kudos to us.

00:05:51   We're all talking about this.

00:05:52   You know, they've consolidated things.

00:05:53   And I think that was one of the biggest applause lines when

00:05:55   people realized that they repurposed

00:05:57   that huge button on the side to something that people lose.

00:06:00   And I'm like, when you were testing it internally,

00:06:02   did you have testers bias where you were so enamored

00:06:05   with the idea of contacting the other five people on the watchOS

00:06:07   team and sending them scribbles or whatever,

00:06:09   that you convinced yourself that that is actually

00:06:12   such an important feature that it deserved this big button.

00:06:15   I think it reveals a flaw in their testing group

00:06:19   or methodology or some other bias that they missed this.

00:06:23   And it's also a shame because of Apple's release cycles

00:06:25   that they kind of had to wait for an entire year for them

00:06:27   to fix this because it required a big rethink.

00:06:29   I feel like almost all the things

00:06:31   that they're revamping here, with the exception of the tech

00:06:34   stuff of making it launch faster,

00:06:35   but almost all the other revampings,

00:06:37   seem like things they could have discovered with a broader test

00:06:41   group when they were coming up with the first design.

00:06:43   And the rest of the stuff, like making it launch faster--

00:06:46   it's not really making it launch faster.

00:06:47   It's making it be already launched.

00:06:48   I think it'd be already there to keep more stuff in memory

00:06:51   so you don't have to launch it, because you're never

00:06:53   going to be able to launch it fast in this slow hardware.

00:06:55   That seems like a good rethinking.

00:06:57   I've heard some people say that it's actually still not quite

00:07:02   streamlined enough, and that you could streamline it further

00:07:04   so that you could control the entire watch with just

00:07:07   the physical buttons.

00:07:08   For example, when your fingers are sweaty,

00:07:10   the sweaty finger people are very angry.

00:07:11   The idea that trying to use your watch at a certain point,

00:07:16   your finger becomes useless because it's too sweaty.

00:07:19   And so they want to be able to quickly hit physical buttons

00:07:22   to stop and start a timer on their workout and stop

00:07:24   in situations where their finger cannot precisely interact

00:07:27   with the screen in any way.

00:07:28   So I think there's still ways to go in terms of accessibility

00:07:31   for can I use the watch like a regular watch

00:07:34   without touching the screen at all?

00:07:35   I'm not sure that's a use case that Apple

00:07:37   cares about at this point.

00:07:38   but definitely watchOS 3 is a huge step

00:07:40   in the right direction on all fronts,

00:07:43   especially if it performs the way they showed,

00:07:45   and especially if whatever hit there is to battery life

00:07:47   is not noticeable, because one thing I think people

00:07:49   have mostly not been complaining about

00:07:50   is that my watch dies in the middle of the day,

00:07:52   so maybe they have a little bit of battery to spare,

00:07:54   maybe they can squish things down,

00:07:56   and there'll be enough overhead

00:07:57   for all these background updates and stuff like that.

00:07:59   - Yeah, well, I mean, the watch battery

00:08:00   is a bit of a problem for the 38 millimeter users

00:08:03   who use workout mode a lot.

00:08:04   - Yeah, that's true.

00:08:05   - But beyond that, yeah, then generally you're right.

00:08:07   I mean, when I was wearing the watch,

00:08:08   I would finish most days with like 50% battery left,

00:08:11   which is great.

00:08:12   - But you weren't using the apps on the watch.

00:08:13   - That's true, yeah.

00:08:14   - I wanted to see how this works out in practice.

00:08:15   It's like, because the apps were so cumbersome to use,

00:08:19   you wouldn't use it for that.

00:08:20   And so now, if they become better to use,

00:08:22   I don't know, the whole pressure is that

00:08:24   we want people to be in and out of the app quickly,

00:08:26   small, quick interactions,

00:08:27   and your interactions can't be quick

00:08:28   if you can't start them until three, 10 seconds pass.

00:08:33   They also were talking about how the current app

00:08:35   won't go away for a much longer period of time.

00:08:37   So if you're in the store looking at a shopping list,

00:08:40   every time you look at the shopping list,

00:08:42   you somehow navigate to it and you check off the item

00:08:44   you just got.

00:08:45   And then you put your arm down.

00:08:46   You walk 20 feet in the aisle, pick up another item,

00:08:48   pick up your watch again, it's like,

00:08:49   I have no idea what you were just looking at.

00:08:50   Here's the time.

00:08:51   Like, I was just looking at the grocery list.

00:08:53   Find the grocery list again.

00:08:54   Even if it's as simple as like hit the button,

00:08:56   swipe swipe to the dock, go back into the,

00:08:58   it will remember, oh, you were just looking

00:09:00   at your grocery list and stick on that.

00:09:01   And this is kind of like a mind reading thing where

00:09:03   When you want it to be on the last thing you were looking at,

00:09:06   you're frustrated that it's not.

00:09:07   But if you just wanted to show the time,

00:09:08   you're frustrated that it's showing the previous watch.

00:09:10   So this is another delicate balance,

00:09:12   and I hope they sort of user tested this more

00:09:15   in the real world.

00:09:16   Maybe now that the watch is public,

00:09:17   they could have been all wearing it.

00:09:18   Maybe that was the flaw in the methodology.

00:09:19   If you try to wear it secretly with a small group of people,

00:09:22   you're not gonna learn.

00:09:24   Because it's so easy to convince yourself

00:09:25   that little wheel of people is super awesome,

00:09:27   and you could send each other digital touches and stuff.

00:09:30   And then once it's out in the wide world,

00:09:32   you were like, you know what, I don't find myself

00:09:34   using the wheel of people that often.

00:09:36   We have this whole big button, let's use it

00:09:37   or something else, but kudos to them

00:09:39   for not being stubborn and saying,

00:09:41   they didn't come up with the right paradigm the first time,

00:09:44   so let's try again, instead of trying to just,

00:09:46   let me just do minor tweaks and maybe we can adjust some,

00:09:48   it's as if they changed the purpose

00:09:49   of the home button on iOS.

00:09:51   Like, used to be when you push the home button,

00:09:53   you went back to the big grid of icons,

00:09:54   but we turned out that's totally wrong

00:09:56   and we're gonna use it for something else.

00:09:57   They got that right the first time on the phone,

00:09:59   they did not get it right on the watch.

00:10:00   - Yeah. - Yeah, we should,

00:10:02   I'll probably move on from the watch pretty soon,

00:10:04   but a couple of other notes.

00:10:05   A lot more support for people who are wheelchair-bound,

00:10:08   which I thought was really, really cool.

00:10:09   - That was great.

00:10:10   - And among other things, the stand notification now says,

00:10:13   "Time to roll, take a break,

00:10:15   "and push around for one minute."

00:10:17   I thought that was really awesome.

00:10:18   I can imagine if I was in a wheelchair,

00:10:20   I would think that's amazing and certainly more inclusive.

00:10:23   They did a lot, well, they sort of did a lot with faces.

00:10:26   So there's different faces, newer faces,

00:10:28   more customizable faces, yet unless I'm missing something,

00:10:30   you can't, as a third party developer, make your own face,

00:10:34   it's just that complications are a little bit more robust

00:10:36   now, is that kind of a fair summary?

00:10:37   - Yeah, that's basically it, I mean, yeah, you have

00:10:40   basically no ability to make faces at all,

00:10:42   but complications suck less.

00:10:44   You know, before, like, one of the reasons why we haven't

00:10:48   seen, you know, incredibly useful complications

00:10:51   from developers is that there's been all sorts of limitations

00:10:54   in place, and honestly, Underscore's way better

00:10:55   to qualify to talk about this than I am,

00:10:57   because basically, from what he told me,

00:10:59   I discovered there was nothing for me to do there really,

00:11:02   before.

00:11:03   You know, just things like, you know,

00:11:04   how often can the complication update its own data

00:11:07   from its app versus just try to guess from like a timeline

00:11:10   what it should be discovering and stuff like that.

00:11:11   So with this release,

00:11:13   some of those limitations have been lifted

00:11:15   and I mean, there haven't been removed.

00:11:17   They've just, you know, maybe like the limits

00:11:18   have been raised or some new things are possible

00:11:21   that were impossible before in a complication,

00:11:23   but it seems like the major advantage

00:11:25   that watch apps have is that kind of

00:11:28   unified glance slash app mode.

00:11:31   And if you're configured as a complication,

00:11:34   you're more frequently kept in memory or something.

00:11:38   I don't know the details, but you have

00:11:39   higher privileges in the system

00:11:41   and you're refreshed more often

00:11:42   and you can respond faster

00:11:45   'cause you're kept more in memory.

00:11:46   So for people who wanna configure one or two apps

00:11:49   as their complications, those apps will be

00:11:52   substantially faster to respond

00:11:54   than the other ones in the system.

00:11:55   But we will see how that shakes out.

00:11:57   And all the apps will have background refresh.

00:11:59   So the big slam on the other, on the old watch,

00:12:02   was that a lot of the times when you went to anything,

00:12:04   any kind of screen, very often you saw old information.

00:12:07   And by going to the screen, you triggered, OK,

00:12:09   now this application gets to do something

00:12:11   to update its information.

00:12:12   And again, that kills the whole get in, get out,

00:12:14   quick nature of the watch.

00:12:15   The new system is background refresh

00:12:17   are all apps privileged for-- I think it's for all apps--

00:12:20   definitely privileged if it's a complication.

00:12:22   And the little demo they gave was, update all of your UI

00:12:26   so it always matches.

00:12:27   So that you're never in a situation

00:12:28   where the glance shows one thing,

00:12:29   but if you launch the app, it showed something else.

00:12:31   But if you saw in the complication,

00:12:33   it shows a third thing.

00:12:34   Just keep them all in sync, all always up to date.

00:12:37   And in the old regime of watchOS 2,

00:12:39   you couldn't do that because you weren't running

00:12:41   until they activated you.

00:12:43   And by then, it was too late because you were supposed

00:12:44   to already have the information.

00:12:45   So they've learned that lesson.

00:12:47   They've implemented, hopefully in a way that, again,

00:12:49   doesn't kill your battery and sorts out

00:12:51   the limited memory on the watch.

00:12:52   in a way that actually enables the applications you use frequently to be all up to date, all

00:12:57   consistent.

00:12:58   >> Yeah, and it all looked really, really good. It was funny that they actually showed

00:13:02   a demonstration of watchOS 2 and how crappy it is to load an app on watchOS 2. And it

00:13:07   was Kevin Lynch, I believe, who basically said in so many words, "Look at how crappy

00:13:10   this is, you guys. But don't worry, we fixed it, so it's all good."

00:13:13   >> Yeah, well, Apple's willing to critique their own past work once the problems go away

00:13:18   as a new work.

00:13:19   >> Yeah, I was about to say, yeah, once the problem's gone, then we're cool.

00:13:21   It isn't how crappy this is, it's look how crappy this was.

00:13:24   And now we've fixed it.

00:13:25   That's a very good point.

00:13:26   You're right.

00:13:27   A couple of quick other watch highlights.

00:13:29   Scribble, I think they called it, so you can actually do handwriting on the watch and that'll

00:13:33   turn into text.

00:13:34   I don't think that's going to be terribly convenient.

00:13:37   However, I do applaud the fact that it's a possibility that it's something you can do,

00:13:43   because sometimes you maybe don't want to dictate and maybe you only want to write one

00:13:47   word, like the example on the Apple website that goes through all the different stuff

00:13:50   on the watch is the word Starbucks.

00:13:52   Like, you're not gonna wanna,

00:13:53   you may not wanna dictate that necessarily,

00:13:56   but at least you can scribble out S-T-A-R-B

00:13:58   and it would hopefully figure out what to watch.

00:14:00   - I would never wanna be heard saying the word Starbucks.

00:14:04   - Naturally. - I'd be too embarrassed.

00:14:05   - This feels more like an accessibility feature

00:14:07   for people who have difficulty speaking to it

00:14:09   because I can't think of a situation where,

00:14:11   I mean, you can whisper to the watch,

00:14:12   bring it right up to your face and say, "Starbucks."

00:14:14   (laughing)

00:14:16   You whisper it, it's like a prayer.

00:14:17   (laughing)

00:14:19   Because scratching out those letters, graffiti style,

00:14:22   it's not graffiti.

00:14:22   You can actually write actual letters on the little watch

00:14:24   face, especially if you have the small watch.

00:14:26   Oh boy, that does not sound like a good time.

00:14:28   And dictation, for people who haven't tried it,

00:14:31   dictating on the watch, like dictating anywhere,

00:14:33   if you're afraid to be talking to your devices,

00:14:35   just do it a few times until you realize, wow,

00:14:37   this is faster than I could type on a keyboard.

00:14:38   Because it usually is for most people.

00:14:40   It's really efficient.

00:14:41   But yeah, it's nice they added it there as an option.

00:14:43   And that's definitely a watchOS 3 feature.

00:14:45   Hey, we'll throw it in.

00:14:46   We can do it.

00:14:47   Maybe it'll be good.

00:14:47   Maybe it'll be bad.

00:14:48   Maybe a few people use it in certain situations, but why not? Certainly it's not sucking your

00:14:52   battery up, it's an input mode and yeah, it's better than digital doodles to each other.

00:14:57   Oh yeah. And it also supports Chinese, which is really impressive. And actually that's

00:15:04   a great mini-segue. There were a handful of people of color on stage, there were a handful

00:15:10   of women on stage, and I thought every single one of the people of color and women on stage

00:15:15   absolutely killed it. We'll talk a little bit more later about the woman whose name

00:15:20   escapes me that did the music demo who I thought was fantastic, and the woman who did the scribble,

00:15:26   the Chinese scribble demo. I could have practiced that character, a couple of characters, for

00:15:31   six weeks and would have screwed them up.

00:15:32   Yeah, that's difficult. The amount of space, I mean, it looks so big up on the screen.

00:15:35   Oh, it's drawing a Chinese character? But think of, like, some of those strokes were

00:15:39   so small on, like, the finger must have been covering the entire thing. I don't know enough

00:15:43   about Far East text input to know how important it is to be able to do this on the watch.

00:15:49   Like is dictation worse in Chinese or Japanese or other languages like that because, I don't

00:15:55   know, it still seems like it would be faster to dictate. But certainly drawing out characters

00:16:00   or selecting radicals or whatever and combining into characters, like when you have languages

00:16:05   that don't just have 26 letters, it's a big feature.

00:16:08   Well and also when you have a language like that where the density of how many characters

00:16:13   you need to express the message that you're trying to send.

00:16:15   When you have only a handful of characters

00:16:17   versus having us type out five words,

00:16:19   I think it's more compelling,

00:16:20   'cause it's less time to input this thing

00:16:23   on this device that has very limited input capabilities.

00:16:27   But overall, I think the doodling of characters is,

00:16:30   it's the kind of thing where it's going to be

00:16:31   one of those fine balances where it has to be

00:16:34   a very short thing you're trying to doodle,

00:16:36   and it has to be way faster than doing it,

00:16:39   than taking out your phone and just doing it there.

00:16:41   And like, it's all down to the implementation

00:16:44   and the context in which you're doing these things.

00:16:46   If it's going to be a big pain,

00:16:48   like the first few times you do it,

00:16:50   you're probably just gonna say,

00:16:50   "All right, I'm just gonna take out my phone

00:16:51   "from now on to do this thing."

00:16:53   So it has to be really good.

00:16:54   And it's probably not gonna be that widely used,

00:16:57   but it'll be nice for occasional use, I think.

00:16:59   - Yeah, and getting back to the diversity topic,

00:17:01   like, we've come to this before.

00:17:03   There's only so much Apple can do here

00:17:05   because the high-level, C-level executives,

00:17:08   the people on their important people page

00:17:10   are mostly all white guys, right?

00:17:12   And you have to wait for them to die or retire to be replaced

00:17:15   until you can fix your diversity problem at the top, right?

00:17:20   That's just a problem they face from years and years

00:17:22   of not paying enough attention to this topic.

00:17:25   So they're fixing it in presentations

00:17:27   the best they can.

00:17:27   They still have Craig Federighi and Eddy Cue and everyone else

00:17:32   up there doing it, and Tim Cook and the whole-- people

00:17:35   who are really, really in charge at the very top.

00:17:37   But right below them, the people who do the demos,

00:17:39   There's no reason that those have

00:17:41   to be a bunch of people who look exactly like them.

00:17:43   And so they're doing a good job.

00:17:46   And it's amazing.

00:17:47   They could have done this many years ago,

00:17:50   but it's taken a long time for them to realize--

00:17:52   the first time they did it, they'd be like,

00:17:53   we'll have one woman presenter.

00:17:55   Like, hm, keep trying.

00:17:58   Well, OK, we'll have two women presenters, but both white.

00:18:01   Good?

00:18:01   You're making progress.

00:18:02   It's like they're slowly working their way up to it.

00:18:05   And like you said, all the presenters were great.

00:18:07   And of course, they're gonna be great,

00:18:09   because again, these aren't just random people

00:18:11   they picked out of Apple employees.

00:18:12   If you look at their titles, they're in charge over,

00:18:14   intimately involved with the products they're presenting.

00:18:17   They're not random drop-in people.

00:18:20   They know their stuff, they're enthusiastic about it,

00:18:22   and like everyone else on stage,

00:18:23   they rehearse the hell out of them, so everybody's good.

00:18:27   So that was nice to see.

00:18:29   Like I said, it's still gonna be years and years

00:18:30   before you see that at the very top,

00:18:33   but I hope all presentations are,

00:18:35   this should be the minimum bar now

00:18:37   or below the top level, they should all be like this,

00:18:40   and quality-wise as well, because, yeah.

00:18:43   - Yeah, I thought it actually added to the quality

00:18:45   of the presentation as a whole, to hear different voices,

00:18:48   and because these people were, like you said,

00:18:50   so freaking good at doing these presentations.

00:18:52   I mean, a handful of these people were the first time

00:18:54   I'd seen them on stage.

00:18:55   - Right, they did better than Craig's first time.

00:18:57   - Oh, God, yeah.

00:18:58   Now, to be fair, I freaking love Craig now.

00:18:59   - They're better than Eddie Q now.

00:19:01   - Yeah, that's true, that's true.

00:19:02   - Well, poor Eddie, come on, let's not be mean to him.

00:19:04   I love photos, I can't wait to do it.

00:19:06   So anyway, so that's watchOS. And I think the best summary of the watchOS part of the

00:19:11   keynote, which up until the State of the Union was my favorite thing I'd seen so far today,

00:19:15   but the summary page for the preview page for watchOS, which I mentioned briefly earlier,

00:19:21   it says at the top of the screen, "watchOS feels like a whole new watch," which is kind

00:19:28   of uncomfortable that they're like, "Hey, well, this old stuff was crap, but hey, we

00:19:32   We fixed it, we're cool, we're all good, right?

00:19:34   But it's true, I mean, I'm really, really,

00:19:37   I'm really excited about where this is going,

00:19:40   and the watch looks really great.

00:19:42   - We're sponsored this week by Fracture.

00:19:45   Fracture is a company that prints photos

00:19:47   directly onto glass.

00:19:49   Go to fractureme.com, and you can get 10% off

00:19:52   with the code ATP10.

00:19:54   Now Fracture, these photos are amazing looking.

00:19:56   These nice, thin pieces of glass

00:19:59   with your photos printed in vivid color.

00:20:01   The colors pop like you won't believe,

00:20:03   and it comes in this solid foam core backing

00:20:05   behind the glass, so you can mount it really easily

00:20:07   on walls, or you can stand it up on desks,

00:20:09   little desk stands.

00:20:10   They make it so easy to use these prints,

00:20:13   and they just look fantastic.

00:20:14   I get compliments on my Fracture prints all the time,

00:20:16   'cause they're all over our house.

00:20:18   They make your photos look good.

00:20:19   If you wanna get your photo printed,

00:20:21   and you know what, you probably should.

00:20:22   So often your photos just kinda sit on your phone forever,

00:20:25   or you post them to Facebook or Instagram,

00:20:27   and they're there for like a day,

00:20:29   and then they're just buried forever,

00:20:30   No one ever sees them again.

00:20:31   With Fracture, you can get your photos printed and have this physical artifact, have an actual

00:20:35   physical representation of your photo that is an object that's made to last and it just

00:20:39   looks fantastic.

00:20:40   You don't need to frame them, they are their own thing, you know, they're all their own

00:20:43   self-contained thing.

00:20:44   So it looks great.

00:20:45   The value is amazing for the, you know, for the price.

00:20:47   They make fantastic gifts.

00:20:49   You can give them as gifts for holidays or if you're like, if you go on a trip with somebody,

00:20:53   you can, you know, send them a gift to some photos from the trip on Fracture's.

00:20:56   You can send them to family.

00:20:57   If you want to send pictures of your kids to their grandparents or something else like

00:21:01   that, you can do that.

00:21:03   Fracture just make great gifts and great prints.

00:21:05   I like Fracture a lot.

00:21:06   I use them myself.

00:21:09   If I need photos printed, I just go to them.

00:21:10   It's simple as that.

00:21:11   I recommend you do the same.

00:21:13   Now, Fracture is partnering with Big Green Egg to give away a Big Green Egg Minimax for

00:21:18   Father's Day.

00:21:19   All you need to do to enter is visit EggMyDad.com and share your favorite dad quote or dad joke

00:21:24   or dadism to enter.

00:21:26   Check it out today.

00:21:27   Go to fractureme.com and use code ATP10 to get 10% off.

00:21:31   Thanks a lot.

00:21:32   (upbeat music)

00:21:35   - So next, tvOS.

00:21:38   The only thing I really got from that

00:21:39   that I was really excited about,

00:21:40   well there were two things actually.

00:21:41   One, dark mode, which is something

00:21:43   I didn't even know I wanted.

00:21:44   But now that, as soon as I-- - I know I wanted it.

00:21:45   - I know you did.

00:21:46   As soon as I saw it, I was like,

00:21:48   "Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

00:21:48   "That's really good."

00:21:49   And supposedly single sign-on,

00:21:52   which supposedly will fix all those problems.

00:21:54   - That'll be awesome too.

00:21:55   So dark mode, I've noticed recently that some TV OS apps have been implementing their own

00:22:00   dark mode.

00:22:01   Like they've been responding, I guess, I'm assuming user requests for it.

00:22:04   And like, why do people care about dark mode?

00:22:06   It's not just aesthetics, but, you know, aesthetics is one thing.

00:22:09   Just ask Marco.

00:22:10   People sometimes like dark mode for their applications.

00:22:12   Second thing is people watch television in darkened rooms sometimes.

00:22:15   And if your UI has a white background and you come out of any kind of video, which usually

00:22:19   doesn't have a white background, it can be extremely sort of shocking and glaring.

00:22:24   And this is not why they did it.

00:22:26   But for me specifically, I have a plasma TV, and pure white on a plasma TV draws a lot

00:22:31   of extra power and can make your Transformers whine a little bit.

00:22:35   And again, this is not why they did it, but I'm excited by it.

00:22:39   And also because I watch TV in a semi-darkened room at night.

00:22:42   So it kind of boggles my mind that they decided to go with white for their TV UI because they

00:22:47   know people watch TV in kind of darkened rooms.

00:22:51   And you know, when the show is over and you hit the menu button, you don't want your eyeballs

00:22:54   blown out, especially since non-plasma TVs have incredible brightness. Like, LED TVs

00:22:58   can go super, super bright. And sometimes people haven't turned up that bright so they

00:23:01   can see them in bright sunlight. It's just not a good plan. And the single sign-on is

00:23:05   the other major pain point for like, you know, when you install applications, you got to

00:23:10   go through this little dance and go to a website and type in these codes. And I think that

00:23:13   stops the regular people from installing too many apps because it's a pain in the butt.

00:23:16   If there is a single sign-on that you can do once and handles all of that for you and

00:23:19   people implement it, which I'm sure they will because people want you to install their apps,

00:23:23   will be great. So two thumbs up.

00:23:25   >> Yeah, it seems, I mean, the single sign-on, I don't, honestly, you know, because I don't

00:23:28   have cable and, you know, I'm probably never going to see this myself. But the dark mode,

00:23:33   just going back to that for a second, you know, we saw like with the, with WatchOS with

00:23:37   the updates, it seems like WatchOS is getting like a major course correction. And with iOS,

00:23:43   which we'll get to in a little bit, I'm sure, it seems like the design language has been

00:23:47   updated to some degree as somewhat of a course correction, somewhat just, you know, refreshing

00:23:51   things, making things new. You know, things like buttons are now more visible as buttons

00:23:55   and some of the text is a little bit thicker to be more legible and stuff. The TV getting

00:23:59   dark mode, I wonder if that is kind of like a half step in a course correction where like,

00:24:05   you know, the previous Apple TV was all constantly dark background. You know, most other TV boxes

00:24:10   do dark background because, you know, all the reasons that it basically works better

00:24:14   for TVs, the way TVs are actually used and TV hardware and everything. The new Apple

00:24:18   getting this all white theme up front,

00:24:20   honestly I consider that a design misstep.

00:24:24   And I think they should have,

00:24:26   instead of just offering dark mode,

00:24:28   they should just make tvOS 10

00:24:30   or whatever it's gonna be called,

00:24:30   just make it dark.

00:24:32   Just re-theme the whole OS to be dark

00:24:34   because most of the other design elements

00:24:36   don't have to change.

00:24:37   That's one of the reasons they're able to offer a dark mode

00:24:38   without a whole ton of work.

00:24:40   Almost all the rest of the design works

00:24:42   whether it's a light or dark background.

00:24:43   So why not course correct all the way

00:24:47   and just re-theme TVOS to be dark,

00:24:49   and not have this weird setting,

00:24:50   and have everybody dual design their apps.

00:24:53   - Part of the reason they chose light mode

00:24:55   is it was a differentiator,

00:24:56   because like you said, every other TV box

00:24:59   was a blackish background with stuff on it,

00:25:01   and Apple was different.

00:25:03   Different in a bad way in this case,

00:25:04   but it is differentiated in the market.

00:25:06   It seems like they don't want to get that.

00:25:07   Even their dark mode is not black like the old Apple TV.

00:25:09   It looks like it's dark gray.

00:25:10   - Yeah, yeah.

00:25:11   - But anyway, the things that are most wrong with TVOS

00:25:15   are mostly involved inside the application themselves.

00:25:17   How do I navigate?

00:25:18   How is it presented?

00:25:19   And that's not an OS level problem.

00:25:21   That's like a problem of how do you implement your app

00:25:24   for showing TV shows and movies.

00:25:25   And individual apps can fix that.

00:25:27   Apples may still be not particularly convenient to use,

00:25:30   but the Netflix app or whatever can continue

00:25:32   to make a pleasant experience

00:25:34   within the framework that's provided.

00:25:36   - Yeah, the other thing that's worth bringing up

00:25:38   with regard to the TV is the new remote app

00:25:40   that Q promised like three months ago.

00:25:42   - Yeah, when he was on the talk show.

00:25:45   - Yeah, you're right, it was on the talk show, wasn't it?

00:25:47   That's here now, and to be honest,

00:25:50   I don't really see why that's totally remarkable.

00:25:52   - Yeah, for people who play games,

00:25:53   they can have multiple controllers

00:25:54   'cause you can use any iOS device's controller.

00:25:56   That was the other big announcement in the State of the Union

00:25:58   that TVOS games can finally require a real controller.

00:26:01   Again, a misstep that seems,

00:26:04   remember there was the bouncing back and forth

00:26:05   when the thing was released about the copy,

00:26:07   but this is, I don't know how you can come to that decision

00:26:12   and not realize the implications.

00:26:14   It's not like anything has changed radically in the market since then.

00:26:16   They've just heard the cries of everybody else.

00:26:18   And those same cries, like, if you just got any five developers into the room and said,

00:26:23   you know, you can write games for Apple TV.

00:26:25   Oh, but you have to make them usable on this terrible little remote.

00:26:28   It's like, seriously?

00:26:29   No, you have to.

00:26:30   Why?

00:26:31   Because we want everyone to be able to play them.

00:26:32   Well, then there's certain kinds of games we just can't make.

00:26:35   Well, try harder.

00:26:36   And then, I don't know.

00:26:39   They still seem weird about games.

00:26:41   Apple's always weird about games.

00:26:43   This is a step in the right direction.

00:26:45   Those controllers are still super expensive.

00:26:47   Now we have support for four controllers, a family that buys four controllers plus the

00:26:51   price of an Apple TV.

00:26:52   Four controllers cost twice as much as an Apple TV?

00:26:54   Yeah, because aren't they still like 40 or 50 bucks each?

00:26:57   I thought it was at least 50, but I'm not sure.

00:26:59   Their gaming story is still muddled as compared to the consoles, but time marches on.

00:27:05   Console controllers aren't cheap either, but overall you're definitely getting into console

00:27:10   price territory if you're planning on buying four controllers. But I think if that ends

00:27:15   up working out, like if we get cool multiplayer games, that could be really great. Like that

00:27:20   could be an awesome thing for the platform. If they cared, they'd make a first party controller,

00:27:23   but I dread them doing that based on the design of their first party remote. Yeah, exactly.

00:27:29   But yeah, that was tvOS, and I mean, I think it looks good. We really should have Joe Steele

00:27:34   Elon or something like that to see if he's happy. But to me it looked good. But we'll

00:27:40   see what happens. After tvOS was iOS 10. So when I said iOS I really meant OS 10. Which

00:27:48   isn't OS 10 anymore.

00:27:49   >> Yeah, I like the beginning they had Tim Cook come out and say we have four platforms

00:27:52   and listed them off and they didn't do the rename then. You know, like they, it was a

00:27:57   weird kind of, I don't know how they arranged the presentation if that was an intentional

00:28:00   or they just realized, oh, at this point,

00:28:02   we can't tell them it's Mac OS.

00:28:04   So Craig got to come out and do his renaming slide

00:28:07   that he's done for the past few, like,

00:28:08   picking place names in California.

00:28:10   Only this time it was about changing it to lowercase m

00:28:12   ackos, Casey's favorite name.

00:28:16   Yeah, that was fine.

00:28:17   We expected it.

00:28:18   What did they talk about?

00:28:19   Well, I will say, though, I did kind of expect

00:28:21   them to just go with Mac OS 12.

00:28:23   I didn't expect the California names to continue.

00:28:25   Oh, no, I totally expected that.

00:28:26   Because it's so many places in California.

00:28:28   It's such a great branding.

00:28:29   'cause they ran out of cats.

00:28:30   Cats were a good branding too, but they ran out,

00:28:32   but they won't run out of place names in California.

00:28:34   And I think the place names are better than years

00:28:37   and they're better than numbers.

00:28:37   By the way, the version is 1012.

00:28:39   So not that it matters anymore, but.

00:28:41   - And also Sierra is a way better name

00:28:44   than freaking El Capitan, which I still hate.

00:28:46   - Well, that time is over now.

00:28:48   - Yep, thank goodness.

00:28:49   - Sierra is a good name.

00:28:50   - So in macOS Sierra, there is Siri,

00:28:55   which looked very powerful.

00:28:58   And toward the end of the Siri demo,

00:29:00   it appeared as though it was doing

00:29:02   a very Google Photos style,

00:29:04   like show me the files that involve,

00:29:08   I don't know, I'm trying to think of a good example,

00:29:09   whatever example they use,

00:29:10   but show me the files about the party I'm throwing.

00:29:13   No, show me the ones I worked on with Aaron,

00:29:15   or something along those lines

00:29:16   where you're refining a search query,

00:29:19   but being fairly abstract,

00:29:21   well, and it's kind of abstract, right?

00:29:22   Show me the files about the party we're planning,

00:29:24   or something along those lines,

00:29:25   and it was able to piece together what that meant.

00:29:27   know the ones that I worked on with Aaron

00:29:29   and then bring down a shorter list.

00:29:31   I didn't like that it was very goofy

00:29:35   in the initial response.

00:29:36   Oh god, I think I-- - Yeah, I was trying

00:29:37   to be funny and be like, here's your files,

00:29:39   you're a master filer, I love the way you work.

00:29:41   - Yeah, the whole Siri being what it thinks

00:29:45   is funny and clever, I think that time is over.

00:29:48   I think we need to drop that.

00:29:49   - Oh, there's a place for that,

00:29:50   but it's not when you're in the middle

00:29:51   of an interaction and narrowing searches.

00:29:53   The fact that everything was in notification center

00:29:55   is weird and they have another mechanism for saved searches. And speaking of the photo

00:29:59   stuff, a lot of the features that we're going to talk about in the context of iOS, I think

00:30:02   it's pretty clear now that they're also available on the Mac. Like the photos and the deep learning

00:30:06   and the blah, blah, blah. A lot of those like, oh, and also on photos on the Mac, which is

00:30:10   great. Like, but they just didn't demo it in the context of the Mac. You know, back

00:30:13   in the days for iOS, all of these features would have been demoed like here's, you know,

00:30:17   face detection, for example, and it was shown in iPhoto. It was shown on the Mac in iPhoto.

00:30:21   All the stuff here with face detection and stuff, I assume is all, it better all be available

00:30:25   on the Mac, but they didn't demo it in that context.

00:30:27   So surely Siri would fit in with that.

00:30:29   But really, it seemed like the new impressive features of Siri

00:30:33   were mostly reserved to be shown in connection with iOS.

00:30:36   I'm assuming some of them are on the Mac.

00:30:38   But the fact that Siri exists on the Mac is good.

00:30:40   The UI and having stuff in Notification Center,

00:30:43   maybe not so good.

00:30:44   And my hope unification of Spotlight and Siri

00:30:46   doesn't seem to be in the cards.

00:30:48   They still seem to be separate things, which seems silly to me.

00:30:51   - Yeah, and I do kind of, it kind of bothers me

00:30:54   how Notification Center is kind of like the junk drawer

00:30:57   on OS X of where they shove new features

00:31:00   that most of which come from iOS.

00:31:03   And the way they do that is just by having this

00:31:06   iOS-like drawer on the side.

00:31:09   - It's like an iOS simulator that's hiding off

00:31:11   the right end of your screen in this all-skinny mode.

00:31:13   - Like, I do wish there was a little bit,

00:31:15   maybe more native-seeming or more integrated

00:31:20   integration of these features, but I guess that'll work itself out over time as they

00:31:26   work through these designs and as they see how these features are used. But yeah, overall

00:31:30   it looks pretty cool. I do think though, I will go back and say, I think the room for

00:31:36   Siri to have any kind of personality or wit, I think that's over because that gets old.

00:31:42   First of all, it doesn't translate well to a lot of different cultures and people.

00:31:44   You want to have that wit when you're conversing with it in a funny way. Not when you've started

00:31:50   doing a task. I think it gets old after like five seconds and then once you're past that

00:31:55   point like you don't want to hear, you don't want your computer to be witty like when you

00:31:59   type in commands in the command line do you get witty responses from Bash? No. Sometimes.

00:32:05   I think I like it occasionally but the problem is there's no way to tell when I'm going to

00:32:11   receive it and think oh that's really cute and when I'm going to see your filing is styling

00:32:16   Like, come on, really?

00:32:18   - They don't have the personalization stuff down.

00:32:20   Like, the whole thing we were talking about with Google

00:32:22   is like, it should learn my preferences.

00:32:24   If you love the thing to be funny,

00:32:25   for those people, it should be funny.

00:32:27   For the people who don't like it to be funny,

00:32:28   it should learn that it doesn't love them.

00:32:30   You know, that is not even in the cards

00:32:31   in terms of personalized interaction with Syria,

00:32:35   that it will learn from what you do

00:32:37   and how you interact with it,

00:32:38   what it is you like and don't like.

00:32:39   And they need to get on that.

00:32:41   - It also, like, it's kind of no good if it's being funny

00:32:43   and also not doing what you wanted.

00:32:45   - Yeah, that's the worst.

00:32:46   then you really hate it, you're like,

00:32:47   why are you being funny?

00:32:48   You just failed at what I asked you to do.

00:32:50   So it doesn't, in practice--

00:32:53   - Here are some websites I found for why are you being funny.

00:32:55   (laughing)

00:32:56   - Exactly, I can search the web for that if you'd like.

00:32:58   - Yeah, seriously.

00:32:59   - Yeah, it has to, I just think the chances of that

00:33:02   not being annoying are so low

00:33:06   that they should just not do it.

00:33:07   - That's fair.

00:33:08   - We've got the tabs in Windows, or Windows in Tabs.

00:33:10   - Oh no, we forgot a bunch of things, actually.

00:33:12   So going back, the unlocking the Mac

00:33:15   with watch proximity, really dig it in principle.

00:33:18   - Or touch ID on the keyboard of your Mac, just saying.

00:33:20   - Yeah, maybe, you never know.

00:33:21   I really dig the proximity thing.

00:33:23   What I wanna see though is how is corporate IT

00:33:25   gonna like that sort of thing.

00:33:27   I suspect that anyone who has a job

00:33:29   that has more than just a few people at it

00:33:32   will probably have the kibosh put on that immediately,

00:33:34   or kibosh, however you pronounce it, skateboard.

00:33:37   Yeah, I got a lot of flack about that.

00:33:38   - Honest question, do companies that have

00:33:40   that kind of strict security requirement often use Macs?

00:33:43   - Oh yeah, I mean, so my company issued me

00:33:45   a 15-inch MacBook Pro and issues a lot of developers

00:33:48   15-inch MacBook Pros, and the VPN software we use,

00:33:51   which is Check Point VPN, also includes

00:33:54   an on-device firewall that prevents all sorts of crap,

00:33:58   like AirDrop.

00:33:59   Why is AirDrop filtered by my on-device VPN?

00:34:04   - It doesn't even have to be a secure company.

00:34:05   As soon as you have an IT department,

00:34:06   they wanna lock all that stuff down.

00:34:08   - Exactly, exactly. - It's annoying.

00:34:09   - So I don't run the VPN on this computer

00:34:12   unless I actually, like it's not even installed,

00:34:14   unless I need to do something for work involving the VPN

00:34:17   when I will, and then I will install it,

00:34:18   do my work and uninstall the VPN

00:34:20   because it's that much of a nightmare.

00:34:21   But anyway, I really like the idea of unlocking the watch

00:34:24   by proximity, really dig it.

00:34:25   Universal clipboard.

00:34:27   - I love this.

00:34:28   - This looks amazing.

00:34:30   - Universal clipboard looks like a good idea,

00:34:32   but as someone who uses the clipboard

00:34:35   to store lots of crap,

00:34:36   I saw it as a potential for data loss,

00:34:38   where until I get into the right mindset,

00:34:41   I don't have the idea that copying something on my phone will squish what's on my Mac.

00:34:46   Now I use a clipboard history thing so it won't really squish, it'll just push it down,

00:34:50   but it's still a little bit weird.

00:34:51   For regular people I think it'll be fine.

00:34:52   If it works well, historically continuity has been weird and flaky, and if this is built

00:34:56   on top of continuity I don't know, but many third party applications have proven that

00:35:00   this is something people want.

00:35:01   They want to be able to copy on their iOS device and paste on their Mac.

00:35:03   I find myself about to try to do it before I realize that I don't have any of those apps

00:35:08   installed and it won't work.

00:35:11   Like continuity, if this works, I will come to rely on it.

00:35:15   But if it's at all flaky, I will just

00:35:17   go back to pretending it doesn't exist.

00:35:20   Yeah, I completely agree with you.

00:35:21   I'm really looking forward to it, though.

00:35:23   It looked super impressive to me.

00:35:24   I still miss Payspot from way back in the day.

00:35:27   I'm hopeful that it works well.

00:35:29   A few things that Apple has done today

00:35:31   make me think they're really, really going all in on iCloud,

00:35:35   which is bold.

00:35:36   I mean, some things that are server side with Apple,

00:35:39   messages seem to work pretty well, generally speaking,

00:35:43   and the CloudKit-based things that Apple's done,

00:35:46   like Notes, for example, seem to be working well,

00:35:49   generally speaking, but I am very scared

00:35:53   about having this all rely on some sort of server-side,

00:35:56   I'm assuming, maybe not, maybe it's only local,

00:35:58   but I'm assuming some server-side thing on Apple's part.

00:36:01   - Well, now the one I'm thinking of,

00:36:02   and the one I tweeted about when I said I'm scared,

00:36:04   hold me, was the disk optimization.

00:36:07   Like, the idea is good that people run out

00:36:09   of disk space in their Mac.

00:36:10   They have no idea what the hell to do about it.

00:36:12   And Apple can sell you more space in their iCloud Drive

00:36:15   thing if they-- you know, they'll transparently take

00:36:17   your files and take the ones you haven't used in a while,

00:36:20   push them up to the cloud, and free up the space.

00:36:21   And it will all be transparent to you.

00:36:22   And you'll save a lot of room on your Mac.

00:36:24   And like, this is basically automated cleaning

00:36:26   that people don't do manually, which is all great.

00:36:29   Like, I'm all for this feature concept-wise

00:36:31   and implementation-wise, especially

00:36:32   if it's entirely transparent.

00:36:34   Or-- well, not entirely transparent.

00:36:35   You would still want some way for people to know,

00:36:38   did this file get pushed up to the cloud?

00:36:39   Lots of people have expressed the idea.

00:36:41   I want to be able to tell that it shouldn't push these files up

00:36:44   to the cloud.

00:36:46   I don't know.

00:36:46   There are lots of pitfalls in terms

00:36:48   of the implementation of this.

00:36:49   But the real one is, if it doesn't work reliably

00:36:53   all the time, or at least as reliably as Dropbox,

00:36:56   then it's just like a giant potential data loss button,

00:37:00   where you can turn this on, and Apple will selectively

00:37:03   hose certain ones of your files transparently in the background

00:37:06   without you knowing and with no way for you to fix it.

00:37:08   So this is a feature that I look at and say,

00:37:12   I'm never turning that on.

00:37:13   I'm terrified of this feature based

00:37:15   on my past history of using iCloud Drive

00:37:18   and the complete undebuggability of it

00:37:21   and the non-flexibility of it.

00:37:23   Whereas something like Dropbox is focused.

00:37:25   It's a single folder.

00:37:26   You can have selective sync.

00:37:27   There are badges on all the icons through an official API

00:37:30   that they support.

00:37:31   I know when things are synced.

00:37:32   when they're not, I can, I can, you know, I have a web interface to see like its version

00:37:36   of truth, like all the tools available to Dropbox, even though they're, you know, fidgety

00:37:41   or whatever, don't seem to be available in this and historically speaking, Apple has

00:37:45   not been as good and reliable as Dropbox and so things about this. So this feature really

00:37:49   scares me, especially since it looks so attractive to people who are novices and just like, oh,

00:37:53   yes, please take care of my storage for me. Yeah. If they turn that on and it just hoses

00:37:58   everything, that's going to be a bad experience.

00:38:00   How are you even going to recover someone from that?

00:38:02   I don't know.

00:38:04   Maybe I shouldn't be so pessimistic about this.

00:38:05   Implementation-wise, it seems like it's a good idea,

00:38:08   but there are so many places from user interface

00:38:11   to reliability to performance where it just

00:38:15   seems terrifying to me.

00:38:16   Yeah.

00:38:16   I mean, an interesting thought experiment, I think,

00:38:18   would be if Dropbox offered this exact same feature,

00:38:22   would you enable it?

00:38:23   Like OS wide, not just in its Dropbox folder.

00:38:25   Yeah.

00:38:26   Would you enable it?

00:38:26   I don't think I would enable it for Dropbox.

00:38:28   I don't think I would either.

00:38:29   And Dropbox, I trust way more than things

00:38:31   like iCloud Drive.

00:38:32   It seems like a good idea, but I think

00:38:34   there are better solutions to this problem, which

00:38:36   we'll get to in a little bit.

00:38:38   Yeah, the tabs and windows thing,

00:38:40   that seems like they're just scraping

00:38:41   the bottom of the barrel.

00:38:42   Like, oh, we added tabs to most things.

00:38:44   You know what?

00:38:44   We should just make this an official API

00:38:46   that you get for free if you use NS Document.

00:38:47   It's easy to implement, and you can just mix windows together

00:38:50   with tabs.

00:38:50   Lots of applications have tabs.

00:38:51   It's nice to have a unified interface.

00:38:53   It's a recognition that tabs are as common as buttons and sheets

00:38:58   and text input fields and combo boxes and all

00:39:00   the other controls they have.

00:39:02   Instead of having to roll your own tabs,

00:39:03   here's a standard control for not tabs,

00:39:07   as in the old style one where you'd switch your different--

00:39:10   what is it called, like the segmented control now?

00:39:12   It doesn't even look like tabs anymore.

00:39:13   But those used to actually look like tabs back in the day.

00:39:15   But web browsers have the, no, each tab

00:39:17   is actually the entire window.

00:39:18   And you can tear them out and combine them.

00:39:19   It's nice to see that be a system level feature.

00:39:22   They're kind of boring.

00:39:23   They look like Safari tabs.

00:39:24   And I'm not sure Safari tabs is the best implementation

00:39:26   of tabs.

00:39:26   but it's a nice idea.

00:39:28   - And I think you get it for free

00:39:29   if you're an NS document subclass,

00:39:32   something like that. - Yeah, I don't know

00:39:32   the details, but I think so.

00:39:33   I mean, I think that's great.

00:39:34   You know, as a user of OS X, I mean,

00:39:37   I'm not really a Mac developer,

00:39:38   but as a user of OS X, I think that's gonna be awesome.

00:39:41   - Yep, picture in picture,

00:39:43   not a problem I feel needs solving,

00:39:45   but not a bad thing. - Oh, no, I disagree.

00:39:46   I mean-- - Yeah?

00:39:47   - For people who use full screen,

00:39:48   it's totally a problem that needs solving,

00:39:50   'cause full screen is like, I would like to be full screen,

00:39:51   that's how I work, I swipe on my pad from side to side,

00:39:54   but sometimes I also wanna keep my eye on the game.

00:39:56   I wish they had more than one picture in picture

00:39:57   so you could stack them up.

00:39:59   - Of course you would want more windows.

00:40:00   No, I mean like--

00:40:01   (laughing)

00:40:02   - That's right, you got a 5K iMac,

00:40:04   you can have four games,

00:40:05   like they should be able to like tile them,

00:40:06   the four football games from the ESPN app.

00:40:09   Yeah, yeah, right?

00:40:10   - I mean like I think it would be,

00:40:12   it'll be nice because like so often

00:40:14   I want to have like a video going from,

00:40:17   usually it's YouTube, or you know,

00:40:19   occasionally it's Vimeo, but usually it's YouTube.

00:40:21   So I'll have this video going and like I'll want to

00:40:23   move it to the side of the screen

00:40:25   so I can do something else at the same time

00:40:26   or so I can watch from another window.

00:40:28   And you have to have the, you know,

00:40:30   if you wanna do that now with before Picture-in-Picture

00:40:32   on the Mac, you have to have the entire browser Chrome

00:40:35   around that showing somewhere and kind of move the window

00:40:38   in such a way that you like, you know,

00:40:40   you move half of it off screen.

00:40:41   It's kind of clunky now, so this will be nice for that too.

00:40:45   - Yeah, I didn't think about the full screen stuff.

00:40:47   That's a very good point.

00:40:48   Well, let's see, what else did they do?

00:40:52   The messages improvements, which we'll talk about

00:40:53   minute comes to the Mac as well. I don't know, that's most--oh, Apple Pay for the web, which

00:41:00   is kind of exciting. And I don't know, I think that was most everything. The big, like, flagship

00:41:06   feature seemed to be Siri, which is similarly solving a problem I don't think I have. But

00:41:10   that really deep contextual search does sound pretty interesting, and I am curious to try

00:41:15   that.

00:41:16   >> So even though they didn't announce it at this segment, this is the part where we

00:41:19   we should talk about the new file system.

00:41:21   Because it is only available on the Mac right now.

00:41:26   It was not announced in the keynote.

00:41:27   I found out about it after walking outside of the keynote

00:41:30   when everybody else found the updated W2E sessions to show

00:41:33   the secret ones, and session 701 was the one about the new file

00:41:36   system, and then everyone found the developer documentation

00:41:39   online.

00:41:40   Didn't even get, as far as I'm aware,

00:41:42   a note in one of the little word clouds.

00:41:44   And that's mostly because even though there's

00:41:47   going to be sessions on this, and there's

00:41:48   technical documentation, and it was announced

00:41:50   in the State of the Union, this is not

00:41:52   a feature of any of the operating systems betas

00:41:55   that they shipped, and it's not going

00:41:56   to be a feature of any of the operating systems

00:41:58   that they ship in final, except in experimental form.

00:42:01   The new file system will be for 2017, because as we all know,

00:42:05   2017 is the year of the file system.

00:42:07   But they announced it now, and they're

00:42:10   getting people working on it now.

00:42:11   What the hell is the name of it?

00:42:13   It's got a terrible name.

00:42:14   APFS, right?

00:42:14   It's called APFS.

00:42:16   The A stands for Apple, the P stands for Poll?

00:42:19   - I guess. - I don't know.

00:42:21   - P-U-L-L? - I don't know.

00:42:22   - No, it's like Apple, like A.

00:42:24   - It's Apple. - It's your Apple file system

00:42:26   and it should be AFS, but AFS is Andrew File System,

00:42:28   and IFS is probably also, anyway, it's got a name.

00:42:31   It's called APFS.

00:42:33   It is only available on the Mac,

00:42:35   and you can do a limited number of things with it now.

00:42:37   - Well, so far.

00:42:38   It will be on all the platforms eventually.

00:42:40   - You can't boot off of it now.

00:42:42   It has all sorts of limitations,

00:42:43   all of which I assume are because it's not done yet, right?

00:42:45   And so this is how they're sort of testing the waters with it

00:42:48   and letting people play with it.

00:42:50   I mean, they're also kind of like saving people

00:42:52   from themselves here.

00:42:53   Like, it's not bootable, and you can't time machine with it

00:42:55   and stuff, because they really don't want you to be installing

00:42:58   a beta file system on your main drive

00:43:00   and with your only copy of your data.

00:43:02   And you know people would do that if they

00:43:04   didn't have these restrictions.

00:43:06   And it has a lot of interesting features, almost all the ones

00:43:10   I would expect it to have, more than I had hoped,

00:43:13   because I had heard things that made me think it wasn't

00:43:15   have too much. First it's flash only. >> Yeah.

00:43:17   >> Which we expected. And that's great because it means they can optimize it for that case.

00:43:22   It has cloning of files, which is, you would think it's just not just like hard links to

00:43:28   files but it's not because they're copy on writes. You can basically duplicate a file

00:43:31   more or less instantaneously and they will diverge slowly. Part of that is the same underlying

00:43:36   technology I'm assuming they're using for snapshots, which means you can take a point

00:43:39   in time snapshot of the entire file system. You can, I think you can clone an entire file

00:43:43   system, I would assume. You can revert to a snapshot, which they said is great for classrooms,

00:43:48   where they can just have the initial state and let the kids use it and revert. It's also

00:43:52   great for Apple stores. I'm sure they're all loving it, where they can, at the end of the

00:43:55   day, revert all the demo devices to their previous state. If you are a backup program,

00:44:00   having a point-in-time snapshot to work out, which is great, and the fact that it doesn't

00:44:03   work with Time Machine, it's because the new version of Time Machine is going to take advantage

00:44:06   of all these features and be a million times better than it used to be. It supports extended

00:44:10   attributes because it has to. And this--this Apple documentation, we'll put a link in the

00:44:14   show notes. It basically goes through like, here's why HFS+ sucks and not so many words.

00:44:18   And it goes through all the things like, oh, HFS+ could do things where your thing was

00:44:22   inconsistent on disk and has no atomic operations and things wouldn't be committed. So if something

00:44:27   happened at this point, you think it could get corrupted. They tried to be nice about

00:44:30   it but, yeah. And the session description for 7.01 is, we're going to tell you why this

00:44:34   file system is better than HFS+, which is shooting fish in a barrel but it's better.

00:44:39   directory sizing. You ever try to get the size of a big folder and it says calculating

00:44:43   and calculating? Like they have a way to do that? You know, atomic operations, limited

00:44:47   atomic operations. This is all great stuff. Being able to make containers and put multiple

00:44:52   volumes on the same container and having them all see that size. So like instead of partitioning,

00:44:56   say you have 100 gigs, you can put three volumes on 100 gigs and they all look like they're

00:45:00   100 gigs. They're not. There's only 100 gigs of space and they're going to fight for it.

00:45:03   But there's no like, let me divide the 100 gig partition up into, you know, 50/50 or

00:45:07   33, 33, 33, it's just that's not how this file system works.

00:45:12   They could all share the space,

00:45:13   and then they will slowly accumulate into the space.

00:45:15   It supports RAID 1.0 and just concatenated volumes,

00:45:19   and JBOD, where you just take a bunch of disks

00:45:22   and make one larger volume out of it.

00:45:25   The only real thing it's missing,

00:45:27   and I don't think it's something they can't add later,

00:45:29   I hope, is any facility for data integrity

00:45:32   at the file level to account for bit rot.

00:45:34   So say you have a bunch of important files

00:45:35   like your family photos, and you keep them around,

00:45:39   and you keep copying them from disk to disk,

00:45:40   how do you know that bit flip errors

00:45:42   aren't slowly corrupting your files?

00:45:43   The answer is, for now, at the file system level,

00:45:45   you still don't, but this seems like

00:45:47   a thoroughly modern file system,

00:45:49   and the fact that that feature doesn't exist now,

00:45:52   I don't mind too much, because all the other things

00:45:54   are doing it, it's like, they're saying all the right things.

00:45:58   Everything in this documentation says,

00:46:00   modern, sleek file system that's going to enable

00:46:02   UI features that are better, it'll make time machine better,

00:46:05   We'll make backup apps better.

00:46:06   We'll make it easier to roll back to known good states.

00:46:09   So many nice, friendly features can be built

00:46:11   on top of this file system.

00:46:12   This is what the world has been waiting

00:46:14   for for a really long time.

00:46:16   Still upset there's no data integrity,

00:46:18   but because it's so modern, I see no reason

00:46:21   they can't add that later for systems that can support

00:46:23   the CPU overhead that that's going to add.

00:46:25   - So, as far as you can tell, so far so good.

00:46:28   Two thumbs up?

00:46:28   - Yes, no, I like it, I'm happy.

00:46:30   The name is stupid.

00:46:32   But you know.

00:46:32   (laughing)

00:46:33   The name is stupid and no data integrity, which is, again, it's not a small thing.

00:46:37   Like when I talk about it in the past, data integrity is like one of the biggest reasons

00:46:39   I want a new file system.

00:46:40   But all the other reasons are still super important and it's just so great to see Apple

00:46:46   finally moving on.

00:46:47   And like Bargo said, this is all platforms, from the watch all the way up to the Mac Pro

00:46:51   that they never update.

00:46:53   It's the whole line.

00:46:54   They made a file system for the future that spans their entire product line, which is

00:46:59   exactly what you could hope for.

00:47:00   And like this is just the first version.

00:47:02   Look at all the crap they added to HFS Plus.

00:47:04   And in their documentation, like, we don't have,

00:47:07   on HFS Plus, extended attributes were tacked on.

00:47:09   Wasn't that crappy?

00:47:10   Well, here it's not tacked on.

00:47:11   We thought of it from the beginning.

00:47:12   It's a super important feature.

00:47:13   Good job, guys.

00:47:14   So I am excited, I am happy, I am optimistic.

00:47:18   I am ready for 2017.

00:47:20   - Real time follow up, by the way.

00:47:21   APFS is optimized for Flash/SSD storage

00:47:24   and can be used with traditional hard disk drives.

00:47:27   - Oh, that's interesting.

00:47:29   I'm kind of surprised that they can even do that.

00:47:31   - Yeah, they just did that because you can make,

00:47:32   like, in the current command line tools,

00:47:34   you can make, like, an image, like a volume container image,

00:47:38   like a disk image of it.

00:47:39   I'm assuming people will screw with it.

00:47:41   Oh, and one thing we didn't touch on is,

00:47:42   one of the current limitations is case sensitive only.

00:47:45   I'm not quite sure what they'll do there,

00:47:46   because a lot of the Unicode normalization

00:47:48   and case folding comparison crap in HFS+

00:47:51   is a reason a lot of people hate it,

00:47:53   because it's complicated and doesn't do what people expect,

00:47:58   and it's kind of, it's not non-deterministic,

00:47:59   but it's complicated to know what exactly it's gonna do

00:48:02   in terms of, this is like when you name files.

00:48:04   What is the file name?

00:48:06   And HFS+ has really complicated rules

00:48:08   about what a file name is, case sensitive or insensitive.

00:48:11   This is case sensitive only for now.

00:48:13   I'm assuming they will implement case insensitivity,

00:48:16   but it's still, I think, an open question.

00:48:17   Will they implement case insensitivity

00:48:19   in the same weird way that it's implemented in HFS+?

00:48:21   And by the way, HFS+ on iOS has always been case sensitive?

00:48:25   - I think so, probably for performance

00:48:27   and simplicity reasons.

00:48:29   Yeah, like, I mean, no one sees the file system on the phone,

00:48:31   so it's fine.

00:48:32   But case sensitive is simpler to implement.

00:48:34   And if they do away with the file name normalization stuff--

00:48:37   we'll put some show note links for Unicode normalization,

00:48:39   because we don't have time to explain it now.

00:48:41   But if they either do away with that

00:48:42   and just make it a giant bag of bytes

00:48:44   and leave it up to the OS, that would

00:48:45   be one easy enough solution.

00:48:47   Or if they come up with a more streamlined, modern way

00:48:51   to do their case folding for the case insensitive things

00:48:53   and handle that.

00:48:54   I don't know.

00:48:55   I'm not quite sure what they'll do.

00:48:56   But a lot of the scary limitations

00:48:57   just because this isn't done yet, and this is only sort of a toy for people to play with

00:49:02   on the Mac, but it will be rolling out everywhere next year.

00:49:05   So I have one other important question. So I do not have a ticket to WVDC. I'm going

00:49:10   to layers. I was sitting in my hotel room streaming both the keynote and the State of

00:49:14   the Union with a handful of other people, and for the State of the Union it happened

00:49:17   that almost everyone in the room was a developer. And for the State of the Union they said,

00:49:22   "Okay, it's time to talk about the new file system." And literally everyone in the room,

00:49:26   which there were like six of us, all of them verbally at the same moment said, "Ding!"

00:49:31   As I'm sitting there watching the talk, people are on Twitter saying, "Oh my God, there was

00:49:36   a ding." And I thought, "No, that's funny."

00:49:38   They heard you in your room.

00:49:40   Right, and I thought, "That's funny, haha." And then I realized, "No, no, no, these people

00:49:43   are not being funny. There was a ding." Is that true? Was there a ding in the room?

00:49:50   There was a ding in the room.

00:49:52   Did it come from the PA?

00:49:53   No.

00:49:54   interesting but there was a ding there was a ding in the room

00:49:59   next up let's talk about file systems

00:50:03   all right

00:50:05   that's magnificent and i am very impressed

00:50:09   so i just want to put that out there that someone had

00:50:12   the wherewithal to either simulate or bring an actual bell with which to ding

00:50:19   when when it was time to talk about the file systems did the person on stage

00:50:22   here could you tell that that's gonna be cut out of the video first of all and

00:50:26   second of all it's a big place I think the only people who heard it were the

00:50:29   people who were in the proximity of the day I don't know some people on Twitter

00:50:32   were saying they were like second row or something like well let's put it this

00:50:36   way the reaction in the room shows that some people knew what the thing was

00:50:39   about other people didn't know and didn't care well but that's fair but did

00:50:43   you notice to the person the person speaking at the time did they even

00:50:46   notice that I don't think so anyway I just want to say for the record I did

00:50:51   not make the ding. Well, God knows I didn't because I was in the room. Alright, well somebody

00:50:55   spent $8 very well to make that ding. Approximately. Yeah, we assumed. I'm just saying I would

00:51:00   never interrupt or disrupt a live presentation by Apple in that way. No, of course not, you

00:51:05   wouldn't. I would not do that. Fair enough. Anything else on macOS? Oh, we forgot, one

00:51:12   more on macOS. It doesn't support my Mac? Yeah! That's right, I completely forgot! John

00:51:16   has to get a new Mac Pro to run the new file system. It's amazing. So they stopped supporting

00:51:20   my Mac and I wondered why and asked Marco and he came up with what I think is the actual

00:51:24   answer pretty much on the spot. Why won't they support the 2008 Mac Pro which is my

00:51:28   model? They support the 2009 Mac Pro. They're 64-bit x86 machines. They're plenty fast.

00:51:32   It's not like my machine is too slow to run Mac OS Sierra. What's the deal? Why is my

00:51:36   Mac not supported? And the answer Marco came up with and then until I hear someone say

00:51:41   otherwise sounds like the answer is my CPU doesn't have the Intel like decryption focused

00:51:47   instructions, I forget what they're called,

00:51:49   you said AVX or something?

00:51:50   - I forgot, it's like the hardware AES acceleration

00:51:55   and stuff like that, like the Intel added instructions

00:51:56   to the CPUs somewhere around that time,

00:51:59   and I think you fall on the wrong side of that boundary.

00:52:01   - Right, and so a lot of the ARM system on the chips

00:52:03   have these instructions, the modern x86 CPUs

00:52:07   have these instructions.

00:52:09   Encryption, by the way, we didn't mention this

00:52:10   for the new Apple file system, encryption is built in,

00:52:13   both full volume encryption and also profile encryption,

00:52:17   like iOS users, but this is built into the file system

00:52:19   instead of built on top of it.

00:52:20   You can totally tell this is a file system made

00:52:22   for Apple's devices, because these are exactly

00:52:23   the features they need that they previously had to implement

00:52:25   on top of the file system.

00:52:26   Now they're built into it.

00:52:27   You can run it without encryption.

00:52:29   It's not like it requires encryption,

00:52:30   but for the sake of simplicity of implementation,

00:52:32   they basically said, we're not going

00:52:35   to put conditional code and have a code path that doesn't use--

00:52:40   we're not going to disable encryption on the 2008 Macs,

00:52:42   and we're not going to say, if you do the encryption,

00:52:44   we'll do a second code path that doesn't use those instructions.

00:52:46   They said fine, just not support it.

00:52:47   I mean, it's an eight-year-old computer at this point.

00:52:49   It's totally understandable.

00:52:50   Luckily, I have a 2009 Mac Pro at work.

00:52:53   So I'll be OK there, and I'll be able to use it.

00:52:54   But yeah, they stopped supporting my Mac

00:52:57   with the current version of the Mac operating system.

00:52:59   So my 2008 Mac Pro was able to run every version of Mac OS X

00:53:05   and OS X, more or less.

00:53:07   But not-- well, I guess not every version, because 10.0

00:53:09   didn't have an x86 version.

00:53:10   Yeah, I don't think you could run any of them until, what,

00:53:12   10.4?

00:53:12   Yeah, until the x86 transition.

00:53:15   Anyway, whole point is my Mac is not supported,

00:53:17   and they did not release a new Mac for me to buy,

00:53:19   so we'll keep watching on that front.

00:53:22   - Oh, God, I don't even want to think about that.

00:53:24   - So what are you gonna do, like, you know,

00:53:26   this fall when this becomes the new version,

00:53:28   are you just never gonna have the new version of OS X?

00:53:30   - I'm gonna install it at work,

00:53:31   and I'm not gonna install it at home,

00:53:33   and we'll see how long that remains tenable.

00:53:35   - Wow.

00:53:36   - I mean, by that point, they could've announced

00:53:37   New Mac Pro that I'd order, I don't know,

00:53:39   but it's not an issue that I have to deal with

00:53:42   for a couple months yet.

00:53:43   - I love that this is like the roller coaster

00:53:47   of Syracuse keynotes.

00:53:49   It's like you have amazing file system news.

00:53:53   No one expected a new file system to ever happen.

00:53:56   Just like when Swift came out,

00:53:57   it's like Swift was like-- - I did.

00:53:59   - Okay, yeah, but no one else.

00:54:00   So you've been waiting for this for forever.

00:54:02   It finally happened, but also--

00:54:05   - I'm gonna stop supporting my Mac.

00:54:06   - Also they're going to force you

00:54:07   to finally upgrade your Mac Pro.

00:54:09   - But that's not bad news.

00:54:11   That's good news.

00:54:12   All they gotta do is make a new Mac.

00:54:13   Like that's fine.

00:54:14   Like there, again, I don't think there's, it's a perfectly valid decision to not support

00:54:17   an eight year old computer.

00:54:19   Like, oh totally.

00:54:20   Like it's fine.

00:54:21   I'm, I'm, I'm not upset about that at all.

00:54:24   It will be handled.

00:54:25   No, I mean it's kind of, it's kind of amazing it made it this far.

00:54:28   Yeah.

00:54:29   So leaving aside hardware gripes, what's the next bit of low hanging fruit?

00:54:35   The file system has been conquered, Copeland's been conquered, or preventing Copeland 2010

00:54:39   with Swift has been conquered.

00:54:41   the next bit of low hanging fruit that you're really, really waiting for?

00:54:44   >> I could fix the finder. I mean.

00:54:45   >> Then I could fix the finder.

00:54:47   >> Oh, no. Don't get him started.

00:54:49   >> Come on.

00:54:50   >> You don't know what you're saying.

00:54:51   >> The finder is the one I kind of gave up on because it becomes less and less irrelevant

00:54:55   to fix it. And, you know, so if they can make it irrelevant, it's fine. There are still

00:55:00   many things that I wish they could fix about it. That's a whole other show. We can talk

00:55:03   about it some other time. That's, I mean, that's the big one from way back when. But

00:55:07   I'm forced to come up with an entirely new list.

00:55:10   Like I could still complain about services forever.

00:55:14   Like don't worry, I will not run out of things to complain about.

00:55:16   It'll be fine.

00:55:17   Never.

00:55:18   I know you won't run out of things to complain about, but I am curious to hear what your

00:55:20   top four complaints are these days.

00:55:23   But anyway.

00:55:24   This episode is brought to you by Automattic, the connected car company that improves your

00:55:29   driving and integrates your car into your digital life.

00:55:31   For more info, go to automatic.com/ATP and use code ATP0315 to get 20% off your purchase.

00:55:39   Now chances are your car has not kept up with technology because cars move really slowly.

00:55:45   Automatic is a connected car adapter.

00:55:47   It turns any car into a connected smart car.

00:55:50   Integrates with today's technology by just plugging this little tiny adapter into the

00:55:53   diagnostic board.

00:55:54   It takes like seconds to do.

00:55:55   Now, automatic lets you keep track of your fuel mileage and your vehicle health.

00:55:58   You can even see what your check engine light really means.

00:56:00   So if you have some kind of error code in your car,

00:56:03   you just get a check engine light usually.

00:56:04   Well this can actually tell you exactly what's wrong.

00:56:07   So you can tell whether you need to go to the shop

00:56:08   and get this fixed immediately,

00:56:10   or whether it can wait a little bit.

00:56:11   It can also integrate with your Nest thermostat

00:56:13   and all sorts of other services

00:56:15   because it integrates with a whole app platform

00:56:18   and If This Then That.

00:56:20   So you can do all sorts of great stuff.

00:56:21   You can do things like integrate expense reports

00:56:24   for your trips.

00:56:25   And of course, once you have If This Then That, IFTTT,

00:56:28   You can get all sorts of crazy stuff to go on.

00:56:30   You can have your Nest automatically turn on when you get home.

00:56:33   There's so many amazing things you can do with technology and your car.

00:56:37   Automattic lets you do that and all this is available with no monthly fees and no subscriptions.

00:56:42   This is not a service that you're buying.

00:56:44   You're just buying the device.

00:56:45   No selling of data, no services, no subscriptions.

00:56:48   You just buy the device and that's it.

00:56:50   No monthly fees.

00:56:51   And normally this device is $100.

00:56:54   When you use our special code ATP0315, you will save 20% off that.

00:56:59   So just 80 bucks.

00:57:00   Go to automatic.com/ATP for more information and to purchase.

00:57:04   Use offer code ATP0315 to save 20% off the regular price.

00:57:09   So just 80 bucks.

00:57:10   Go to automatic.com/ATP.

00:57:12   Thank you for your support, Automattic.

00:57:14   iOS 10.

00:57:17   It's a thing.

00:57:19   It's iOSX, Casey.

00:57:20   Oh my bad.

00:57:21   iOSX.

00:57:22   That's right.

00:57:23   it looks good, it actually looks different.

00:57:27   You talked about this earlier.

00:57:29   - Yeah, they've refreshed the design like a half step.

00:57:33   - Yeah, that's well put.

00:57:33   - It's not like a total redesign of the system,

00:57:35   but it's like a .5 of the iOS 7 style design, which I like.

00:57:40   They have made many of the fonts

00:57:43   a little bit heavier weight.

00:57:44   They've introduced a new super heavy bold for San Francisco

00:57:48   that's in use in the News app and in Music

00:57:51   to really massively draw attention to headlines,

00:57:53   which I don't think I like, but we'll see in use.

00:57:56   But overall, all around the system,

00:57:59   there's little improvements to the text

00:58:01   to make it a little bit thicker, a little bit heavier,

00:58:02   a little bit more bold, which makes it easier to read

00:58:04   for a lot of people.

00:58:05   Moving on from text, though, the big change

00:58:07   is they've introduced buttons that look like buttons,

00:58:10   which is awesome.

00:58:11   - And windows that look like windows,

00:58:13   like the little widgets.

00:58:14   - Yeah, everything's now like these little rounded

00:58:15   window-like things, which I like this new style a lot.

00:58:20   I like this design, I like that Apple's moving it forward.

00:58:23   I think this will prove to be more usable

00:58:25   than like the pure iOS 7 looks,

00:58:27   just because things are starting to have shapes again,

00:58:30   and text is starting to become more legible,

00:58:32   and this is all good stuff.

00:58:33   So I think, you know, having not actually used the beta yet,

00:58:37   you know, we'll see how this is in practice,

00:58:39   but tentatively, I give the design improvements

00:58:42   whatever thumbs up that I can give.

00:58:44   - Yeah, the lock screen changes in particular,

00:58:46   like it's Apple finally, not giving up on,

00:58:49   but thinking better of, like their attempt,

00:58:51   they always wanted to say,

00:58:52   can have an arbitrary image and we will display text on top of it in a minimal way that remains

00:58:56   readable. And it's really hard to do that without deciding, having an algorithm kind

00:59:00   of like their iTunes album or thing, like should we darken the background and use light

00:59:03   text? Should we lighten the background and use dark text? And what about, they love stuff

00:59:07   showing through and like if it was all about usability you would say, use an opaque light

00:59:11   background with dark text on top of it that's easy to read. Like, but they don't want to

00:59:14   do that. So they're creeping up on it. So they said, no, we won't, we're not even trying

00:59:17   to mess with your background anymore. We're going to put these white essentially windows

00:59:19   on top of it. And they're not opaque white. You can still see stuff through them with

00:59:23   the whole vibrancy, but it's just more readable. It's clear what the units are. It's clear

00:59:30   where they begin and end. The text on them is easier to read because it is dark text

00:59:33   on a light background always. It doesn't depend on the thing that's behind it. And those are

00:59:38   all good decisions, especially if they're going to add functionality to that screen,

00:59:41   which they are, to make it a more straightforward UI and to give up on the dream of it being

00:59:47   like this beautiful text that is laced onto your image, like minimally as if it's just

00:59:52   been sprinkled there with stardust. And in practice, what that translates to is hard

00:59:57   to read, can't tell what the hell is going on.

00:59:59   >> Yeah. And the lock screen now has widgets on it, and they actually literally use the

01:00:02   word widgets, which I thought was a little surprising.

01:00:05   >> Yeah, it's interesting. What they basically did was they took what used to be your TodayView

01:00:11   widget or your Notification Center widget, you know, whatever you call those things,

01:00:14   and they're now kind of sticking those in more places,

01:00:16   which like, you know, I never thought it was worth Overcast

01:00:18   having a Today View widget because--

01:00:21   - 'Cause no one's going into their Today View

01:00:22   to find out what's up with Overcast today.

01:00:24   - Right, exactly, like it's not, it doesn't seem

01:00:25   like it was that kind of app, and I personally never

01:00:28   use Today Widgets 'cause I don't look at my Today View.

01:00:32   So, you know, but now they're putting those now

01:00:34   on the lock screen, they're putting those on 3D Touch

01:00:37   when you preview an app, so now this is going to give

01:00:39   way more apps a big reason to have notification center

01:00:43   or to have these widgets.

01:00:44   Now it's no longer a notification center widget.

01:00:46   It's no longer a today view.

01:00:47   Now it's just your app's widget.

01:00:49   And they can put those in more places.

01:00:51   And as both a developer and a user,

01:00:53   I'm looking forward to this.

01:00:55   This sounds great.

01:00:55   They did a lot of stuff with the lock screen

01:00:57   to make it so that you don't accidentally

01:00:58   dismiss it with the touch thing.

01:00:59   I thought I saw someone tweet that-- maybe

01:01:01   this is just the beta-- but instead of just placing

01:01:05   your thumb over the touch ID to unlock it,

01:01:08   that you actually have to press the button in.

01:01:10   You can't just tap the touch ID to get through that screen.

01:01:13   - Yeah, I believe that was Ryan Jones who said that.

01:01:16   I believe that's correct from whatever one else.

01:01:18   It's kind of unclear as to what sequence of buttons

01:01:20   you have to hit or not hit to do that,

01:01:21   but that's roughly correct.

01:01:22   - Right, and the whole thing where you don't touch any button

01:01:24   just raise it up at the table

01:01:25   and it will show you the lock screen

01:01:26   because they want you to do more on the lock screen.

01:01:28   There's gonna be more information there hopefully

01:01:29   and you can customize it more

01:01:31   and so they want a way to get to that

01:01:33   without you accidentally unlocking it.

01:01:35   It's kind of weird that they have designed out

01:01:37   all the delays which are basically bad,

01:01:39   but that people had,

01:01:41   those delays had become part of the UI for people who

01:01:43   would be dealing with their phones.

01:01:45   And they don't want to put the delays back in,

01:01:47   because unlocking your phone real fast when

01:01:48   you want to pick it up and actually use it

01:01:49   is a great feature.

01:01:51   But they still wanted to find a way

01:01:52   to let you use your lock screen.

01:01:54   So hopefully we'll be able to develop new habits.

01:01:56   And hopefully this sort of raise feature and pressing the button

01:01:59   will work itself out into a situation

01:02:01   where you can get into your phone as fast as possible,

01:02:04   but are never frustrated by accidentally getting

01:02:06   into your phone when really you wanted to work

01:02:07   with your new fancy lock screen.

01:02:09   Yeah.

01:02:10   And this solves this raise to view or raise to wake,

01:02:14   I think they called it.

01:02:15   It solves a problem that I actually don't have

01:02:16   'cause I am really good at hitting the side button

01:02:19   in order to see my notifications,

01:02:20   but I am the only person or one of the only people I know

01:02:23   that doesn't get annoyed by the way the new Touch ID works.

01:02:27   And so this is clearly solving a problem

01:02:30   for the overwhelming majority of people where,

01:02:32   like you said, they mash down on the home button,

01:02:34   suddenly they're right through the lock screen

01:02:36   and they didn't get to see any of the notifications

01:02:38   that they wanted to see.

01:02:39   And I do that occasionally, but generally speaking, I'm pretty good at avoiding it.

01:02:42   What was interesting though, and as a potential security issue, is you could interact with

01:02:47   these widgets on the lock screen pretty interestingly.

01:02:51   Like you could respond to a text message, for example, right on the lock screen.

01:02:53   So you're letting someone take your locked phone and respond as if they're you?

01:02:56   Right.

01:02:57   I'm not quite sure how this all works out in practice.

01:02:59   And it did not, this, what I'm about to describe was clearly not shown during the demo.

01:03:04   But what I would suspect is if you ever have your phone and it's locked and you swipe up

01:03:10   and go to the camera, take a picture, and then you want to go to your old pictures that

01:03:13   you had taken previously, in order to do or to send one, in order to do that, it has like

01:03:18   an interstitial, if you will, saying, "Okay, enter your passcode or touch ID or what have

01:03:21   you in order to perform an action like that."

01:03:24   Anything that's destructive or that involves something leaving the phone.

01:03:28   I would guess that the same sort of thing would happen here, but without question, that

01:03:33   is not what they showed during the demo.

01:03:34   Yeah.

01:03:35   And the same thing, speaking of the widgets,

01:03:36   like of doing more stuff from the lock screen,

01:03:39   the same kind of situation problem presents itself there

01:03:41   is like to make the lock screen more useful,

01:03:44   you want people to be able to do more things,

01:03:46   but to do more things or show more information that

01:03:49   shouldn't be on the lock screen.

01:03:51   Imagine you had these rich widgets that

01:03:53   could show you all sorts of contextual information

01:03:55   about your day and things that have happened

01:03:56   to different applications.

01:03:57   Do you want anyone to be able to see that when they raise

01:03:59   your phone?

01:03:59   That's why on the Mac, a lot of the sort of notification center

01:04:02   stuff says, hey, should this show on the lock screen

01:04:04   or should it not?

01:04:05   I'm sure the same things will be on iOS,

01:04:07   but it's a type of granularity.

01:04:09   Even I have trouble deciding, like going

01:04:10   through each individual app and saying,

01:04:11   do I want this show on the lock screen?

01:04:12   It's kind of useful, but then what if someone comes by my Mac

01:04:14   and sees a message from my wife that's

01:04:16   like floating in a corner in a box

01:04:17   that I don't want them to see?

01:04:19   I don't know.

01:04:20   It's difficult privacy-wise.

01:04:22   I think what Apple is creeping up on slowly, slowly, slowly

01:04:25   is a screen on your phone that is not springboard, that is not

01:04:29   a big grid of icons that has a bunch of information that you can customize that third party apps

01:04:35   can contribute to. I don't think the lock screen is that screen. I think that's another

01:04:38   screen. Android users are telling me exactly what screen it is. Like, why don't you have

01:04:41   real widgets that don't have to be the full width of the thing that you can customize

01:04:44   and have sort of like a dashboard, if you will, for the phone that you customize to

01:04:50   contain all this information, and that's not really the lock screen. So I think they'll

01:04:54   arrive at that eventually, but they're not there yet. And right now they're just making

01:04:57   the lock screen better than it was, which I think is good.

01:04:59   - Yeah, a couple other quick hits,

01:05:01   and then there's some other big ones.

01:05:04   Maps looks improved.

01:05:05   The turn-by-turn looked a lot nicer to me.

01:05:09   The traffic, instead of doing little dots,

01:05:11   it's an actual highlight which looked better.

01:05:13   - And you can zoom out without fighting

01:05:15   with your goddamn phone, just like squeezing.

01:05:17   How many times I fought with the phone

01:05:18   with like seven fingers on the screen,

01:05:20   stay zoomed out so I can see where the, oh no.

01:05:22   - It's the worst, I completely agree with you.

01:05:25   They also did a very cool thing,

01:05:27   I think Waze has already done for years, but if you're about to make a turn, they'll zoom

01:05:32   way, way, way in, and if you're not going to make a turn for a while, it'll zoom way

01:05:36   out, which I really, really liked.

01:05:37   Yeah, that's nice.

01:05:39   They also had some contextual stuff.

01:05:41   A lot of this, a lot of today's announcements were about trying to infer context for many

01:05:47   of the operations you're doing, and that's not just limited to maps.

01:05:50   And that actually brings me nicely to Siri improvements.

01:05:53   They touted a lot of different Siri improvements, including a Siri API.

01:05:58   And one of the things that I thought was most interesting about the Siri API was that they

01:06:02   said without saying that this is all natural language and kind of implied that unlike Alexa,

01:06:09   which I've not used to be completely fair, but I've understood to be, and I think one

01:06:13   of you guys actually said it, to be very much like a command line.

01:06:16   Yeah, I said that.

01:06:17   Yeah, exactly.

01:06:18   So it's not, what Siri is, is not a command line.

01:06:21   series, not just a command line where you have to do, you know, subject, verb, action

01:06:25   or whatever the case may be.

01:06:26   >> Yeah, yeah. It's more flexible and like the syntax that it accepts.

01:06:28   >> Right. And actually in the State of the Union when they go--when they went through

01:06:31   the nuts and bolts about how that works from a developer perspective, one of the things

01:06:35   they said in so many words was, "Hey, listen, this could happen--this same command that

01:06:42   you're trying to perform could be verbalized in one of six different ways and that's on

01:06:46   us to figure out and to extract what the actual, they had the different components of a Siri

01:06:53   command, I forget what they are offhand, but whatever those components are, it's on us,

01:06:56   on Apple, to extract what those, particularly the verb, the subject, the action, whatever,

01:07:01   are and we will give that to you developers. So that means it's on Apple to parse out how

01:07:07   exactly it is the user structures that sentence, which assuming it works is how I think it

01:07:13   should work, but that's a big assumption.

01:07:16   >> Well, that's what the intent system is about, and that's why it's limited to certain

01:07:18   kinds of applications, I would imagine, is because Siri determines the intent of, like,

01:07:24   what is this person trying to do? And then it creates a structured message for that intended

01:07:29   action. So if the intended action is some kind of messaging, that's the one they showed,

01:07:33   like, it's like, there's a recipient, there's the content of the message, and maybe a few

01:07:36   other bits, and it gives the application that structured information. The application has

01:07:41   no idea what you said. I don't even know if you can get at that information from the application.

01:07:44   because it's an application that says I handle, you know, if someone, if the intent is to

01:07:48   message somebody, that's a thing that I can do. So Siri will figure out, you're trying

01:07:52   to send a message, you're trying to send it to this person, you're trying to send it with

01:07:55   this app, and then we'll hand off to the app, here is the information, here is the user's

01:07:59   intent, they wanted to talk to you, WeChat or whatever, they wanted to send it to this

01:08:03   person, and here's the message. And that's why you have to have structured, like, what

01:08:07   can't be for all apps, like, oh, I just want to make an app, and if someone says this,

01:08:10   I want my app to do that. No, it has to be one of the intents that they support. I don't

01:08:14   know how many different intents they support, but it's a limited set of like, five or six.

01:08:18   Yeah, so it's right here. So they announced that the following are supported in SiriKit.

01:08:23   Messaging apps, VoIP calling, payments, ride booking, photo search, and workouts. And that's

01:08:28   it. Only those six. And each one of those things has a structure of the message that

01:08:32   the application has to be ready to handle. And Siri handles the "I'll figure out what

01:08:36   they said a bunch of crap, and what they mean is I want you, application, to do this thing,

01:08:40   It's one of the short lists of supported things, which

01:08:43   is it's limiting because you can't say, oh, I had a game

01:08:46   and I want people to say, I want, you know,

01:08:49   please foodle the blah blah blah.

01:08:50   No, challenge John at a game.

01:08:53   But even something within the world of your app,

01:08:55   like change armor, put on the good armor on character,

01:08:59   whatever.

01:09:00   Just make some Destiny.

01:09:01   We wouldn't understand that.

01:09:02   Yeah, if you wanted to do that.

01:09:04   That's not going to have integration with Destiny.

01:09:05   But yeah, imagine something that only made sense

01:09:07   in the realm of your game.

01:09:09   you can't support that because you have, in the Siri API, you have no facility to say

01:09:15   what you want, you know, I want people to say this and I want this to happen. That's

01:09:18   not how it works at all. So this system is much more flexible but also more limited.

01:09:22   And it allows people to add Siri support without knowing anything about how Siri works or caring

01:09:27   how it works or even caring that they use Siri because an intent can be expressed by

01:09:31   anything. An intent can be expressed by hand signal, by sending an email to yourself, by

01:09:36   by putting text messages in, by waving your arm.

01:09:38   Like, your application has no idea

01:09:40   how the intent was expressed by the user.

01:09:41   It is totally divorced from it, which I think is super smart,

01:09:44   but it's also going to mean that the roll out of Siri

01:09:46   is going to be limited.

01:09:47   And I think it's fine for it to be limited,

01:09:49   especially since the classes they chose are good,

01:09:51   common classes of applications.

01:09:53   I'm sure this will expand outward,

01:09:55   just like extension points have expanded outward for the places

01:09:58   you can extend on iOS and on the Mac.

01:10:02   But I think it's a very clever API,

01:10:05   and it is better than let's just do the simplest thing,

01:10:07   which you say a bunch of stuff,

01:10:08   and you identify an application,

01:10:10   and then we translate it to text

01:10:11   and hand it off to your app,

01:10:12   because that would have been a disaster.

01:10:13   - Yep, couldn't agree more.

01:10:14   - Yeah, I mean, like the system as it stands now,

01:10:16   like I have kind of mixed feelings about it,

01:10:17   because they didn't basically give me anything

01:10:20   I could use for Overcast,

01:10:20   because they didn't create or release

01:10:23   one of these like intent structures,

01:10:24   that is play media item,

01:10:26   or control control media playback in this app.

01:10:28   - A media intent is a gimme though,

01:10:30   like that's something they will,

01:10:31   I feel like they will do.

01:10:32   - Well, it depends on why it's not there now.

01:10:34   If it's not there now because they just didn't get to it,

01:10:36   sure.

01:10:37   If it isn't there now because maybe they wanted to

01:10:39   protect Apple Music, I hope that's not the reason.

01:10:43   It is possible that's the reason, I hope that isn't it.

01:10:45   And knowing Apple, that probably isn't it.

01:10:48   - No, I mean, they would want to control,

01:10:49   like if that was the case, you'd be able to have,

01:10:52   to talk to Siri to control all media playing

01:10:55   in any of the native media controllers, right?

01:10:58   - Yeah, I guess.

01:11:00   But, yeah, I don't know.

01:11:01   - We'll see, we'll see.

01:11:02   - Yeah, 'cause like right now you can say, you know,

01:11:04   play this artist's name and it just plays it in Apple Music.

01:11:06   And that's one of the big reasons why people

01:11:08   choose Apple Music over its competitors.

01:11:10   - I'm thinking like video services.

01:11:11   Like they're not competing with YouTube at this point.

01:11:13   But there's still no, you know, show me the latest

01:11:16   whatever video on the whatever channel on YouTube.

01:11:18   - Well and they have that on Apple TV.

01:11:20   Like they did add that to Apple TV's theory

01:11:22   where now you can, you know, YouTube is part of

01:11:24   Apple TV's universal search.

01:11:26   - But not on iOS and YouTube is on there as well.

01:11:27   Anyway, hopefully it's not a political reason.

01:11:30   But technologically speaking, a media playback intent,

01:11:34   or even like something, I don't know,

01:11:35   do they have like an email?

01:11:37   I guess maybe that falls into the category of messaging.

01:11:38   - I think it's, I mean, email's only for old people like us.

01:11:40   It's not like the little young kids are doing.

01:11:43   - Anyway, like this is promising.

01:11:44   Siri finally has an API.

01:11:45   It seems like a reasonable good API

01:11:47   that they expand out to new intents.

01:11:49   And by adding new intents,

01:11:50   I don't think there's any particular complexity they add.

01:11:52   It's just like, intents address categories,

01:11:54   not individual apps.

01:11:55   So they didn't pick select partners.

01:11:57   Any intent that they add,

01:11:58   if they make a media playback intent,

01:11:59   They're not making like an overcast intent or a YouTube

01:12:02   intent.

01:12:02   They're going to make one that encompasses

01:12:04   huge numbers of applications, just like they have with like

01:12:07   the intents they have on out.

01:12:08   So I think that the possible number

01:12:10   of useful intents in the world is like low hundreds,

01:12:13   you know, right?

01:12:14   And that will cover thousands upon thousands

01:12:17   upon thousands of apps.

01:12:18   Yeah.

01:12:18   I mean, overall, I'm very happy with how

01:12:20   they implemented this API.

01:12:22   It seems like a very smart way to do it.

01:12:24   It is, as you mentioned earlier, because it kind of abstracts

01:12:27   dealing with the language and some of the details

01:12:31   of how the person structures their statement.

01:12:33   It abstracts all that away for the developers,

01:12:35   so it's really easy to do things like implement

01:12:37   messaging app, because you don't need to,

01:12:38   if you say, "Send a message to John that I will be late."

01:12:43   Does the app need to know that I said that

01:12:47   before I will be late, or does it just get I will be late?

01:12:51   It abstracts all that away, it deals with all that for you.

01:12:52   That's awesome.

01:12:53   - I know you can blame all the stupid bugs on,

01:12:55   "Well, I don't have any choice.

01:12:55   "This is the intent, send me this,

01:12:57   "it thinks the message is this,

01:12:58   "and if it includes that,

01:12:59   "we all just complain about Siri some more."

01:13:00   - Yeah, 'cause that abstracts away

01:13:02   dealing with so many language issues

01:13:04   and different languages and different constructs.

01:13:07   So it's great for the developers that it supports,

01:13:10   and I hope in the future it supports more developers.

01:13:13   - Yeah, I completely agree with everything you just said.

01:13:14   And I wanna double down on what you said a second ago,

01:13:17   which is it supports like 30-some languages

01:13:19   or something like that? - Yeah, something like that, yeah.

01:13:20   - Which is quite a bit different

01:13:21   than most of the voice-enabled stuff,

01:13:24   or certainly Amazon's if not Google's.

01:13:27   There were a couple of other things that were mentioned

01:13:29   that I'd like to try to breeze through pretty quickly

01:13:31   'cause there was another big section in the iOS stuff.

01:13:33   The quick stuff I'd like to breeze through

01:13:34   is Apple Music got a refresh.

01:13:36   This was when Bozeman St. John came up.

01:13:39   I may have pronounced that wrong, but she was awesome.

01:13:42   - She was great.

01:13:43   - There was one small part where she was trying to get

01:13:44   a bunch of like completely nerdy developers

01:13:47   to try to sing or rap rapper's delight with her.

01:13:50   - That was part of the joke though in the end

01:13:52   'Cause it was a long setup for realizing

01:13:54   this is not happening and you guys need to practice.

01:13:57   - But it was, other than that,

01:13:59   which got a little bit cringe-worthy,

01:14:01   I thought she did an unbelievable job.

01:14:03   And to my recollection, the best first-time performance

01:14:06   of anyone I've ever seen on an Apple stage.

01:14:09   - Yeah, maybe.

01:14:10   - One of my few tweets during the thing was like,

01:14:11   being cooler than Eddy Cue is admittedly a low bar.

01:14:14   But she achieved it handily.

01:14:16   - Oh, very much so.

01:14:17   - 'Cause really, I mean, it's a tough call.

01:14:20   You want someone to be up there to show enthusiasm for music.

01:14:23   And it's hard to do that demo all the time.

01:14:26   As someone snarkily tweeted, once again,

01:14:27   Apple shows us how to enjoy music.

01:14:29   We all understand how to enjoy it.

01:14:30   But really, if you're going to do an Apple Music demo,

01:14:33   you can't really demo it as a series of screens and stuff.

01:14:36   The whole point of the thing is the music.

01:14:38   And even though the message of this one was like,

01:14:39   you can find your stuff more easily or whatever,

01:14:41   there's always going to be a part where they

01:14:42   show enthusiasm for music.

01:14:43   And you need a presenter up there who is clearly

01:14:46   enthusiastic about it.

01:14:47   And bottom line is you have to have someone who is relatable.

01:14:50   And even though a lot of us are old in the audience,

01:14:53   we can't relate to Eddy Cue getting down.

01:14:56   And I don't blame, it's not his fault.

01:14:58   - No, a little bit.

01:14:59   - Everyone gets old, man.

01:15:01   Everyone becomes uncool or uncooler than they were before.

01:15:05   And it was just a silly choice

01:15:07   to have him up there doing that.

01:15:08   Bring someone else who is better at this than you

01:15:12   and who is more relatable.

01:15:12   And they did, hallelujah, and it was better.

01:15:15   - Yeah, I mean, it's still a really tough gig

01:15:17   because that audience and that setting

01:15:21   is really not conducive to like,

01:15:23   we're gonna talk cool about music,

01:15:25   and we're gonna get everyone all excited

01:15:27   about our cool music.

01:15:28   You can't do that in that room,

01:15:30   no matter how cool you are.

01:15:31   - But you can do it by being funny.

01:15:32   Craig killed it once again, right?

01:15:34   You have to be relatable to that audience,

01:15:37   but you can do it through humor.

01:15:40   You can do it through self-deprecating humor.

01:15:41   - But I actually think that she was

01:15:44   a different kind of funny.

01:15:46   again, that one cringe-worthy part aside,

01:15:48   I thought she was a different kind of funny

01:15:50   and arguably more funny than anyone else on stage.

01:15:53   And the thing that was so striking to me

01:15:55   was that she was a different kind of funny.

01:15:57   Instead of the dad jokes that have been on Apple--

01:15:59   - That's all you can do if you're a dad.

01:16:01   - Agreed, agreed.

01:16:02   That is the entirety of your repertoire.

01:16:04   But in a way that I've never seen an Apple keynote be funny,

01:16:09   her portion of the keynote was a different kind of funny.

01:16:13   And even as not a, or even as a fellow white man,

01:16:18   like most of the people that were always

01:16:21   on the Apple keynote stages,

01:16:23   I really enjoyed this different kind of funny.

01:16:26   I thought it made for a better keynote,

01:16:28   having this different kind of voice.

01:16:30   And I really thought she did an unbelievably good job.

01:16:33   - Yeah, and that was always the trick

01:16:35   to being a good presenter.

01:16:35   You have to be comfortable with yourself, and she was.

01:16:38   And it makes you, like even if your presentation

01:16:40   doesn't go that well, if you're comfortable with yourself

01:16:41   and you roll with it, that makes the audience more comfortable.

01:16:44   And if you can express genuine enthusiasm for the new thing

01:16:47   that you're showing.

01:16:49   As for Apple Music itself, they're

01:16:51   trying to make it nicer to use by making it easier

01:16:54   to find the stuff that you actually care about

01:16:56   and addressing the idea of, hey, I get on a plane

01:16:58   and I have no idea what the heck is on my phone.

01:17:00   So they addressed that directly and said, oh, now

01:17:02   we have a special view.

01:17:04   I feel like they're addressing-- once again, addressing user

01:17:06   needs that I feel like they should have known a year ago

01:17:09   but didn't.

01:17:10   Now they've discovered them, they've

01:17:12   rearranged things a little bit, they've

01:17:13   added a limited amount of features.

01:17:16   Is that enough to make Apple Music better?

01:17:18   Is it still going to fight with people's metadata

01:17:21   and give you bad versions of stuff and do all that?

01:17:24   I don't know.

01:17:25   I hope not.

01:17:25   But I still feel like that's the albatross around Apple Music's

01:17:28   neck.

01:17:30   For the people who should be the biggest fans of Apple Music,

01:17:33   music lovers who have huge music collections,

01:17:35   Apple Music I still think feels like the enemy

01:17:37   because it's going to screw with your music in ways

01:17:39   that you don't understand, and it's like a giant beast

01:17:42   to wrangle and you say no thanks.

01:17:44   As opposed to say iTunes match, which had the potential

01:17:46   to be just as bad, but was not just as bad.

01:17:48   That it would mess with your music in fairly predictable

01:17:51   ways and the upside was pretty big.

01:17:54   - Yep, I still use iTunes match and still love it.

01:17:56   - Yeah, if they cancel iTunes match, that would be terrible

01:17:58   because I don't want to use, you know, like we want,

01:18:01   like photos, we want the photo style refresh.

01:18:04   We're still waiting for the photo styles

01:18:05   to refresh our music.

01:18:06   I don't think it's supposed to be it, but it's a bad job.

01:18:08   We want all our music everywhere and we want to control it and we don't want Apple screwing

01:18:11   with it and messing it up.

01:18:12   So that's a perfect segue to the other thing I wanted to very briefly touch on, which is

01:18:16   photos.

01:18:17   And basically it was, "Hey, we're doing Google Photos, but we're doing it on device."

01:18:22   With no mention of Google anywhere, but that's expected.

01:18:26   And I mean that's basically what I saw.

01:18:28   And what I saw looked to me like it was taking all of the best bits of Google Photos, like

01:18:33   arbitrarily searching for Handbrake or Controller.

01:18:36   So they didn't do that demo.

01:18:38   They didn't do the-- like they said, hey,

01:18:40   we'll notice that there's water and there's animal.

01:18:42   They didn't pull up a search screen and say horses.

01:18:45   Like I continue to think that Google will do this better.

01:18:48   Obviously I'm going to do the controller custom.

01:18:50   By the way, update on-- we didn't

01:18:51   have any follow up in this episode,

01:18:52   but a small amount of follow up.

01:18:54   Once I uploaded all of my photos to Google Photo

01:18:59   and I typed controller, guess what it found?

01:19:01   Exactly the controller pictures that it had found before,

01:19:04   and also the ones that they just hadn't been uploaded yet.

01:19:06   So Google Photos totally aced the controller test,

01:19:09   took down all my controller pictures.

01:19:11   And so that's going to be my first test,

01:19:13   because all my photos are already uploaded to Apple's

01:19:15   photos in the cloud thing.

01:19:17   And when this feature rolls out, as I assume it will on the Mac

01:19:20   as well, I'm going to type controller,

01:19:21   and I almost guarantee that it will not find it.

01:19:24   So it's just a question of how much better is

01:19:26   Google with this than Apple.

01:19:27   There was no demo.

01:19:28   We have no way to judge.

01:19:29   The fact that Apple is doing this at all is great.

01:19:31   Maybe someday they can get family photo libraries.

01:19:34   By the way, I was heartened by that.

01:19:35   speaking of family photo libraries,

01:19:37   there is new sharing features in CloudKit

01:19:39   that allow collaboration on Notes and everything.

01:19:41   I know something you can use this feature for, Apple.

01:19:44   You could have a single photos library for an entire family

01:19:47   and share it among them so everyone's

01:19:48   photo is against one big pool.

01:19:50   Yep.

01:19:51   That was not announced.

01:19:52   Maybe not this year or whatever.

01:19:54   Or maybe that's a fall event feature,

01:19:56   or maybe that's the next year.

01:19:57   Yeah, I mean, it could be--

01:19:58   It scares me a little too.

01:19:59   I'll see how well it works in Notes.

01:20:00   But anyway, the photos features, like Casey said,

01:20:02   it's like, we're going to try to do things that Google Foes did.

01:20:04   we're going to have the privacy angle,

01:20:05   and that we're not going to do it server side,

01:20:07   we're going to do it client side.

01:20:08   How are we going to do it client side

01:20:09   without hosing your battery?

01:20:10   Presumably, they didn't say this,

01:20:12   I feel like they should have.

01:20:13   Oh, don't worry, we won't destroy your battery,

01:20:15   we will do it when it's plugged in at night,

01:20:17   and we won't start doing it until it's been plugged in

01:20:19   for a certain period of time,

01:20:20   we won't start doing it until you're above 80%.

01:20:22   Like, that is, I assume what they're doing,

01:20:24   because I can tell you from seeing face recognition

01:20:26   bring down many a Mac,

01:20:27   I do not want face recognition running

01:20:29   on my giant 70,000 photo library.

01:20:32   Even just the bandwidth to download the originals,

01:20:33   the recognition and chuck them out of storage again. It's just, you know, so I assume they

01:20:37   will do this when it's plugged in. They're doing it on device instead of in the cloud

01:20:39   because Apple's bad at cloud and because they love privacy. I hope they do a good job. They

01:20:45   didn't demo anything to let me know they were going to do a good job, but good for Apple

01:20:49   for, you know, playing catch-up once again. Fingers crossed.

01:20:53   >> Yup.

01:20:54   >> We are sponsored this week by Pingdom. You can start monitoring your websites and

01:20:59   and servers today at pingdom.com/atp.

01:21:02   You get a 14-day free trial, and when you enter code ATP

01:21:05   at checkout, you get 20% off your first invoice.

01:21:08   Pingdom makes the web faster and more reliable for everyone

01:21:11   by offering powerful, easy-to-use monitoring

01:21:13   tools and services for anybody who runs a website or service.

01:21:16   Now, by using Pingdom, you can, for example,

01:21:18   monitor availability and performance of your server,

01:21:20   database, or entire website from more than their 70 global test

01:21:24   servers.

01:21:25   They can emulate visits to your site,

01:21:26   check its availability as often as every minute.

01:21:29   So you can see, am I down in a certain region?

01:21:31   Am I getting slow somewhere?

01:21:32   Is my whole site down?

01:21:33   And developers know,

01:21:34   websites are becoming more and more sophisticated

01:21:36   and are often made up of several dependencies.

01:21:38   And when one dependency encounters an outage,

01:21:40   it can affect the whole site.

01:21:41   So it's also possible with Pingdom

01:21:43   to monitor the availability of key interactions,

01:21:45   such as contact forms, e-commerce checkouts,

01:21:47   logging in, search functioning, and a whole lot more.

01:21:50   Or just monitor the whole site, or both.

01:21:52   Now stuff breaks on the internet all the time.

01:21:54   Every month, Pingdom detects more than 13 million outages,

01:21:57   more than 400,000 outages every day.

01:21:59   So regardless of whether your web presence

01:22:01   is a small website or a complete infrastructure,

01:22:03   you should really monitor its availability and performance,

01:22:05   and I use it, I've been using Pingdom since 2007.

01:22:09   That is a very long time ago.

01:22:11   All they need is a URL to monitor,

01:22:13   and you can check for a string on the page,

01:22:16   you can check for whether it's up or not,

01:22:17   it can alert you, it can do high alert,

01:22:19   like sending you text messages or emails or everything,

01:22:21   or push notifications on modern devices,

01:22:23   or you can have like a low alert where maybe it only emails you for certain less serious conditions.

01:22:27   You can do so much with Pingdom and it's been rock solid reliable for me since 2007.

01:22:32   When Pingdom detects an outage, you are immediately alerted so you can fix the problem

01:22:36   before it becomes a much bigger and more costly problem for you.

01:22:39   Now you should not be learning that your site is down from people on Twitter.

01:22:42   You should be the first to know so you can fix it before a lot of people see it.

01:22:46   And you can be the first to know with Pingdom.

01:22:48   Check it out today. Go to Pingdom.com/ATP for a 14-day free trial and get 20% off your first invoice with offer code ATP.

01:22:57   Thank you to Pingdom, my favorite monitoring service that I've been using for way longer than they've been a sponsor.

01:23:02   Thanks a lot to Pingdom for sponsoring our show.

01:23:04   [Music]

01:23:07   So, the other big thing on iOS 10, to me anyway, was messages.

01:23:14   And some of this made me feel like the old man I really am.

01:23:18   - Oh, I think the entire thing shows that all of us,

01:23:21   including most of the people in that room,

01:23:23   are too old to understand why anybody

01:23:26   would want to use these things.

01:23:27   - I totally understand.

01:23:28   I mean, it amazes me that iMessage

01:23:30   had been so boring for so long,

01:23:33   in light of every single other messaging application

01:23:36   having all these features, having stickers

01:23:39   and animations and Snapchat child features, annotations.

01:23:44   Apple had the tech, especially making a picture

01:23:46   scribbling over it like they have all the pieces there. This is once again catch up

01:23:49   where Apple finally realized, "Hey, messages applications let you type text and emoji back

01:23:54   and forth to each other are super boring and tons of people use other ones that have all

01:23:59   sorts of features like stickers and weird animations and like and now they're doing

01:24:04   all that which is great." Again, it is playing catch up but it amazes me that they spent

01:24:08   so they know it's the most used application on their platform. They spent so long not

01:24:12   to even be able to send the messages in the right order and have them deliver on all devices.

01:24:16   They didn't even mention anything about this and like the proximity thing. So now if I

01:24:20   have seven devices on my desk, will it not make all of them ring at the same time because

01:24:23   it knows I'm there with my watch? They didn't mention any of that. Messages have been so

01:24:27   far behind everybody for so long and they caught, they didn't catch up entirely, but

01:24:32   a lot of the features they put out is like all those things everyone else is doing, we

01:24:36   are finally doing them as well. It would be nice if they were adding these features after

01:24:41   are making every other part of messages, the boring part, rock solid and stable and not

01:24:47   annoying and presence notification and messages being on all devices at all times and working

01:24:52   out all the privacy things. But they're not. They're going ahead with these things. And

01:24:57   I think this is just the price of entry. This is not like a radical feature. It's like Apple

01:25:01   has woken up and realized if you have a message application, you need to support these things.

01:25:04   And your message conversations will be as annoying as the people who are as exciting,

01:25:09   let's say, the people you message with.

01:25:12   John was looking right at me when he said that, FYI. No, a lot of this looks really

01:25:16   good to me. The emoji thigh or whatever they call it where you type text and then it will,

01:25:20   I think, yellow highlight and underline individual words and give you not only the option of

01:25:25   converting that word, say pizza, to emoji, but if you have something like, I don't know,

01:25:29   girl, then if you tap girl, it'll give you several contextually relevant, hopefully,

01:25:35   options that you can convert the word girl into a different emoji.

01:25:39   I feel like that is not the way people use emoji a lot of the times, though.

01:25:43   It's not!

01:25:44   It's forcing a particular style.

01:25:45   And they said in the presentation that people will finish the sentence and want sort of

01:25:49   an emoji capper.

01:25:51   That's how a lot of people use emoji, is sort of like to express something after you've

01:25:56   written the text.

01:25:57   Going back into the text and replacing the nouns with emoji, yeah, people do that sometimes.

01:26:02   But it's not as common in my experience as... or at least you'd want it in addition to have

01:26:05   a thing at the end.

01:26:06   more like Slack's auto-complete, where you enter emoji auto-complete mode. You want to

01:26:11   find just that right emoji cap for it. That's what they said in the demo. But you didn't

01:26:14   find the emoji cap. You just went back in and changed a bunch of nouns to emoji, which

01:26:16   is a good feature, and you should have it. But you should also have a way to quickly

01:26:22   sort of inline auto-complete emoji in the message. Anyway, maybe the next version.

01:26:27   It still makes sense to me, though, because it's considerably faster to type words than

01:26:32   to scroll through that damned emoji list trying to find the right emoji. So it made sense

01:26:36   to me. Speaking of writing, you can write with your own handwriting, kind of like on

01:26:40   the watch, but better, which is exciting. You can do the same thing that Google showed,

01:26:45   where you can make the text that expands and shrinks. But I think you pointed out, Jon,

01:26:48   that it will land and its resting state is full-sized text.

01:26:53   Right, is that what we talked about? Like, a lot of the things we saw demoed are exactly

01:26:56   what Google demoed in its Allo thing. Like, down to the whispered and shouting and the

01:27:02   bigger emoji and all the other stuff, only Apple did some of them better. And the whisper

01:27:06   is a great example. If you want to be like whisper and have tiny text, you can do that.

01:27:09   But it stays small just for a second and then comes back to what I assume is whatever the

01:27:13   normal size is. So if you have your font size cranked up in iOS for accessibility, then

01:27:18   your whisper will start up microscopic for a second, get the effect, but then it, you

01:27:21   know, it doesn't stay that way. It goes large again.

01:27:24   >> Yeah. One of the things I like most, and I can't verbalize why, but I really liked

01:27:29   invisible ink. I thought that was really really cool because it's like hey I'm

01:27:32   showing you something that's a they're both shaking their heads and laughing at

01:27:35   me right now but if you're showing something that... You like the worst stuff.

01:27:39   I think it's cute I think there's an emotional aspect that works but here's

01:27:45   the thing that that worries me a tiny bit about it invisible ink the feature

01:27:49   makes people's phones act exactly like the crazy haunted gadget that some

01:27:54   people believe their phones are. So the first time you send this to somebody who doesn't

01:28:00   know what this is, they're like, "Oh, I've got a virus! My phone is haunted! The letters

01:28:04   are all scrambly! I can't see anything!" I'm sure they'll get over that and you'll explain

01:28:10   it or whatever. I think it is a good feature. It's a clever feature. It is another feature

01:28:14   that will confuse people who are less savvy than... Especially since it's not obvious

01:28:19   what you're supposed to do with it. It's not obvious that you should swipe it to make it

01:28:22   go away. Right? So that's fair. And it looks exactly like what people think bugs look like

01:28:27   in like movies. Like, "Oh, I've got a bug in my thing. All the text is all scrambly.

01:28:31   The aliens are into it." It looks more like sand is covering it. But I mean, your point

01:28:35   is still fair. It seemed to me like the new messages is a combination of Slack with the

01:28:42   responses on individual lines, which I didn't. I never thought how you engage that, but you

01:28:47   can like thumbs up an individual message that somebody else sent. It's like reactions, do

01:28:51   do you think? Or is that like flagging for your own purposes? Do they see your thumbs up?

01:28:55   I think they do. Yeah, my impression was that they see it very much like the way

01:28:59   Slack works if you happen to use Slack. And I like that a lot. So, you know, the example

01:29:03   they have on the Introduction iOS 10 page, and they

01:29:07   call it "tap back." So here you go. Just tap to send one of six quick responses

01:29:11   that let people know what you're thinking. And so they have an example of somebody saying

01:29:15   "head to Santa Cruz?" And then the tap back is a little thumbs up.

01:29:19   And that's actually really convenient because,

01:29:21   especially if you're on the go,

01:29:23   you can just basically say,

01:29:24   "Yes, I acknowledge what you've said.

01:29:25   "I agree with it, let's do it, we're good,"

01:29:27   rather than having to write out a text message.

01:29:29   So it's a combination of Slack, Snapchat.

01:29:31   I jokingly celebrated during the keynote

01:29:33   that I don't have to learn how Snapchat works anymore

01:29:36   because it seems like a lot of those features

01:29:38   have come into iOS.

01:29:39   - This is way more limited than Snapchat.

01:29:41   - Oh, absolutely.

01:29:41   - Like I tweeted, it's baby slap, Snapchat.

01:29:43   - Yeah, it's brilliant.

01:29:45   - It's Snapchat for parents.

01:29:45   - Yes, which makes it perfect for us.

01:29:47   - Yeah, exactly.

01:29:48   - Some of this stuff is also a little weird,

01:29:51   like the Let's Celebrate, say things like happy birthday

01:29:53   or congratulations with animations

01:29:55   that take over the entire screen

01:29:56   and you can have like bubbles fly,

01:29:57   or balloons, excuse me, fly off.

01:29:59   - And confetti and fireworks.

01:30:00   - Those all look really good.

01:30:03   - They Sherlocked_Confetti, I was very sad about that.

01:30:04   - Well, I mean, I think some of that stuff,

01:30:06   again, it's gonna be the kind of thing like series jokeyness

01:30:09   where like it might be cool the first time you see it,

01:30:11   but like there's only a very small handful

01:30:13   of these like canned effects.

01:30:15   So they're gonna get old quickly, I think,

01:30:17   and I think some of them seem a little heavy-handed.

01:30:20   You know, overall, I think it's a cool,

01:30:23   it's a fun little feature to have,

01:30:25   but I do think the implementation of it

01:30:26   is gonna get, I think, a little annoying pretty quickly.

01:30:30   - But let's say that that's how you view it,

01:30:33   but it's a nice thing to have,

01:30:34   but this is how entire groups of people

01:30:37   communicate all the time.

01:30:38   You have the same limited palette of stuff

01:30:40   that you would find annoying really quickly,

01:30:42   but as far as they're concerned,

01:30:43   anything that you can't do this with is crap

01:30:45   and they never get tired of it,

01:30:46   like never meeting like, you know, like it just,

01:30:48   I mean, I scroll through like my kids' conversations,

01:30:51   like their tolerance for repeated,

01:30:53   and they don't even have,

01:30:54   they have an even smaller vocabulary now

01:30:56   and they're still just repeating it and everything.

01:30:58   Like, I think this will,

01:31:00   like it's not how we will communicate,

01:31:01   but you have to have this

01:31:02   and you have to have even more of it

01:31:05   and they will not burn out of these things.

01:31:07   They will just keep using them and potentially abusing them.

01:31:09   I just hope they don't crash the app

01:31:10   'cause that'll be a shame.

01:31:12   - Well, and to that end,

01:31:13   there's now an app store for iMessage,

01:31:15   which in principle I'm 100% behind, but in execution,

01:31:20   little scared.

01:31:22   - People are already doing that with buying the keyboards,

01:31:23   like Kim Kardashian keyboards do.

01:31:26   This is already, they're responding to a market.

01:31:28   And again, it's not like Apple is like,

01:31:30   "Oh, we are the pioneers."

01:31:31   They're catching up.

01:31:31   This is a thing that people do on all platforms,

01:31:33   that they're finding a way to do through keyboards.

01:31:35   On Apple's platforms,

01:31:36   this is what people wanna do with their phones.

01:31:38   May not be what we wanna do with our phones,

01:31:39   but they have to provide a way to do it,

01:31:41   even if it's outside the realm of like,

01:31:43   if Steve Jobs is still alive today,

01:31:45   what would he think of this?

01:31:46   Probably not up his alley, probably he would want things--

01:31:48   - Well, he was a sucker for kitschy animations,

01:31:50   he would love that kind of stuff.

01:31:52   - But I think, I don't know, I think he might draw the line

01:31:54   with the sticker stores.

01:31:56   - Well, but you know, I think one thing that's interesting,

01:31:58   like a theme we saw throughout this,

01:32:00   you look at things like the integration

01:32:02   with other services into your contacts,

01:32:04   so you can write in your address book or your contact app,

01:32:07   you can see, all right, you can call this person

01:32:08   on WhatsApp or whatever, I don't know how these,

01:32:11   is that a phone call service ever, or just messaging?

01:32:13   - Just through Skype, just through Skype.

01:32:14   So yeah, so now you can do that.

01:32:16   They have all these little hooks everywhere

01:32:18   that are slowly adding more places

01:32:21   where third party apps can hook into the system

01:32:23   and appear native.

01:32:24   If you look at something like Android or Windows,

01:32:27   you know, where things are, but more Android really,

01:32:29   things are kind of like the wild west

01:32:31   and there are lots of ways for apps to hook in

01:32:34   all over the place or to be everywhere,

01:32:36   but it's done in like a very wild west,

01:32:39   kind of risky or unstable or just kind of messy way.

01:32:43   What Apple has done with iOS is slowly make a system

01:32:48   over time in which you can integrate,

01:32:51   and when you integrate, it's as nice as the built-in stuff.

01:32:54   And they're doing this very slowly over a decade,

01:32:57   but the result is so different from what you get on Android,

01:33:01   where on Android, you could do way more,

01:33:03   especially back in the day on day one,

01:33:05   you could do way more, but it resulted in overall,

01:33:09   I think, a less nice system

01:33:11   than what we're slowly developing on iOS,

01:33:13   where now you can integrate all sorts of cool stuff.

01:33:16   You can integrate certain kinds of apps

01:33:18   in many different places all around the OS

01:33:20   and make it seem just like the first party integration,

01:33:24   but without many of the downsides of the Android style

01:33:28   kind of more Wild West system.

01:33:29   - And without the downsides of the Apple approach,

01:33:31   which is, okay, you can have some integrations,

01:33:34   but when you, say, ask Siri to contact somebody

01:33:37   or pull up some UI, we're always gonna show you ours first.

01:33:40   Like their whole pitch was, oh,

01:33:42   But if most of the time when you talk to this person,

01:33:44   you do it through WeChat, that will be the first choice.

01:33:46   We won't say, oh, well, OK, you could

01:33:48   add that extra integration.

01:33:49   But that's a frill.

01:33:50   When you contact them, any programmatically

01:33:52   will always present you with the Apple ones first.

01:33:54   This ties in with the ability to delete the built-in Apple apps

01:33:57   and the potential-- I don't know if this is confirmed yet--

01:34:00   ability to pick different default apps for things.

01:34:02   Do we know anything about that?

01:34:03   Yeah, so hold on really quick.

01:34:04   Before we get to that, I just want

01:34:05   to say that I am all in on the messages stuff.

01:34:06   I'm really excited about it.

01:34:07   And during the State of the Union, I forget who it was,

01:34:09   but they were talking about the sticker pack specifically.

01:34:12   and they were saying, oh, here, look at how easy it is

01:34:13   to build these.

01:34:14   You do need Xcode, but whoever it was,

01:34:17   they started Xcode, did a new project

01:34:19   from this new template, and they said,

01:34:21   okay, I'm almost done.

01:34:22   Literally all they have done was made a new project.

01:34:24   - You just like drag in the images, and that's about it.

01:34:26   Like there's no code, like you can make

01:34:28   a codeless sticker app.

01:34:29   - Which is really exciting and impressive,

01:34:31   and I'm really hopeful about that,

01:34:32   but I'm also very scared that that's just gonna be spam city.

01:34:35   - If you wanna, you can sell images.

01:34:37   Like I'm sure people will just upload pictures

01:34:39   of Star Wars stuff and try to sell them

01:34:41   until Lucasfilm or whatever.

01:34:42   - It's gonna be a copyright infringement nightmare.

01:34:45   - So, leaving messages behind,

01:34:47   I'm really enthusiastic about it.

01:34:48   Some things I don't totally understand,

01:34:50   but I think it's really great.

01:34:51   What Jon is alluding to as summarizer-in-chief

01:34:53   is some people have noticed that you can actually delete

01:34:56   like the stock mail app that comes on iOS.

01:34:59   - Yeah, and they're like in the App Store now.

01:35:00   - And if you wanna get it back, how do I get it back?

01:35:03   Go to the App Store, hit the little cloud

01:35:04   with a downward-facing arrow.

01:35:05   - And there's been no official documentation

01:35:07   or talk about what that means,

01:35:09   but it could potentially mean, and seems like it means,

01:35:13   that you can get a different default mail app.

01:35:16   We're not 100% sure about this.

01:35:18   - So say you delete the mail app,

01:35:19   do you have no way to send mail?

01:35:21   Does the mail share sheet not show up anymore

01:35:23   and that's their solution?

01:35:24   - Or what happens if you ask Siri for a certain feature

01:35:27   that requires, if you delete the weather app,

01:35:29   can Siri still get the weather?

01:35:30   There's stuff like that.

01:35:31   The system has been built for so long

01:35:33   to assume that these certain apps are always available.

01:35:36   So it'll be interesting to see how they handle all this.

01:35:38   I mean, whether we're gonna get the ability

01:35:39   to change default I think is a totally separate decision

01:35:42   that we can have this system that only exists

01:35:45   so we can delete the tips app.

01:35:46   (laughing)

01:35:48   - But like, let's say you tap a mail link,

01:35:50   in a mailto link in a web view.

01:35:52   - Yeah, there's no handler.

01:35:53   - Well no, there's an alert, so there's a tweet

01:35:56   by Mike Zornak, who, and we'll put this in the show notes,

01:35:58   and it's a picture that he said he got from a mailto link,

01:36:01   and it says, "Restore mail?"

01:36:03   You followed a link that requires the app mail,

01:36:06   which is no longer on this iPhone, you can restore it from the app store.

01:36:09   But that's crappy, like it's a half solution. Like yes, it's great that we can delete the

01:36:12   tips app, like we're all for that, right? But if I delete mail, like the share sheet

01:36:16   we already have a solution to. If I delete mail and I go to share a link, the Gmail share

01:36:21   thing will be there. Good, we're all set there. But the default comes in when, oh, I tap a

01:36:25   mail to link, then what happens? It's nice that it's not an error or nothing happens

01:36:29   and it gives you a button to fix it. It would be nicer if we said, hey, I deleted the mail

01:36:33   app for a reason, because I don't use it to do my mail. Let me tell you which one I do

01:36:37   use to do my mail, and then you come up with a protocol or an intent system or whatever

01:36:41   that says, "Make the Gmail app conformant with this and it can replace." And maybe they

01:36:44   have that planned, but you know, it could be that that dialogue is coming up because

01:36:48   we have not detected any other application on the system that can handle the mail intent

01:36:51   or whatever, and therefore we have to bring this dialogue up. Whereas, when you learn

01:36:54   about this new API in a session later this week, you can make the Gmail app be a stand-in

01:36:58   mail application, because that's part of it. You have to be it, to fulfill the role of

01:37:02   of a default web browser, mail client, messages client,

01:37:05   or whatever, you have to be conformant with whatever way

01:37:08   the system communicates to you.

01:37:10   How does it launch you and say you're now supposed

01:37:12   to be composing a message?

01:37:14   The mail app does whatever the hell it does

01:37:15   and the system integrates with it.

01:37:16   Once it becomes open to third parties,

01:37:18   it has to be formalized.

01:37:18   So I would say that that dialog doesn't tell us anything yet

01:37:22   other than no current applications are able to be

01:37:26   the default mail application.

01:37:27   I still hope that we will learn that there's an easy way

01:37:29   for them to do that, and that would be great.

01:37:31   - Yeah, we'll see.

01:37:32   We are pretty much out of time for now,

01:37:34   but before we go, Marco, how do you feel about the keynote

01:37:37   and the State of the Union,

01:37:38   which we didn't get to talk too much about?

01:37:40   One thumb up, two thumbs up, two thumbs down,

01:37:41   how do you feel?

01:37:43   - Overall, I think two thumbs up.

01:37:44   We're gonna see, you know, there's a lot of stuff

01:37:47   that there's still the question mark of like,

01:37:48   well, if that really works well, it'll be great.

01:37:51   - Yeah, I think there is a lot of that.

01:37:52   - Or like, you know, we're kind of guessing

01:37:54   how certain things are gonna be implemented.

01:37:56   So as we find out more about the details of these things,

01:37:59   obviously, you know, my opinion might be refined,

01:38:01   But overall, I'm very happy with this.

01:38:03   And overall, I think it's really good.

01:38:05   I mean, there were some things that we were hoping for

01:38:07   that we didn't get, but I think we got a bunch

01:38:09   of really big stuff that's gonna be really nice.

01:38:10   So overall, for me, two thumbs up.

01:38:12   - Jon?

01:38:13   - I really like that, you know, so they pre-leaked,

01:38:15   basically, no hardware, so they prepared us for that,

01:38:17   which is, again, disappointing, but, you know, fine.

01:38:19   I like that in the absence of hardware,

01:38:22   they now, they had a four-platform structure to focus on,

01:38:25   and they took us through each of the platforms.

01:38:27   And the kind of, the good keynotes,

01:38:29   especially about software, are the ones where you find yourself saying, "Finally, yes,

01:38:33   that thing, that thing that's been annoying me, you have addressed it." And every single

01:38:36   one of the sections had things that were all like, "Yes, good, finally, I am excited to

01:38:41   do that, that has annoyed me for a long time and you've solved it," or "I'm excited that

01:38:45   you recognize..." Like, it's fun to see them recognize a problem, like with the watchOS

01:38:49   thing, that they didn't just say, "Oh, and we tweaked things to make it a little faster."

01:38:52   It's like, "We feel your pain, we understand we didn't do a good job, we're taking another

01:38:56   run at it. And of course the biggest finally of all the file system, which I'm so tickled

01:39:01   that they preannounced. Even though it's still not coming in 2017, until 2017 is exactly

01:39:07   what I talked about last week. I am super happy about that. And I guess we'll just all

01:39:11   wait patiently for the hardware that's going to replace my now unsupported Mac Pro.

01:39:15   No, I think two thumbs up. I thought it was really good. The only problem I had with the

01:39:19   presentation was the thing I was most amped about during the keynote was the watch stuff.

01:39:23   So not that it was downhill from there, but I thought that was the most impressive stuff of everything. I mean, I'm sorry

01:39:29   I'm just not I don't enjoy the file systems as you do but they revamped emoji for you

01:39:34   Three times bigger and they do. All right fine. I tell you're right. You're right

01:39:40   I feel like I'm on top four again. You're arguing with me, but you're right

01:39:44   Okay, but no matter what I still land on two thumbs up

01:39:47   I thought it was really really good and I'm really looking forward to it

01:39:50   Although I completely agree with a little bit of what each of you said.

01:39:53   I completely agree, Marco, that it's a lot of assuming this works,

01:39:58   but we have no reason to believe it won't.

01:40:00   So, so far so good.

01:40:01   And I agree with what Jon said about, oh, finally, this is a thing.

01:40:05   Finally, this is fixed.

01:40:06   I think you're absolutely right.

01:40:07   You nailed it.

01:40:08   And that's like a mean way of saying they had things that people liked.

01:40:13   They announced things that people liked, lots and lots of things that people liked,

01:40:16   big things, small things.

01:40:17   I mean, that's what they're supposed to do.

01:40:18   but it didn't feel like they were lacking

01:40:20   in any of the platforms.

01:40:21   There were tons of things that, you know, good things.

01:40:24   We just had an episode where it was like,

01:40:26   "WDC is not Santa Claus,"

01:40:27   but they still bring a lot of little gifts.

01:40:30   Like, you know, that's not how presentations were supposed to work.

01:40:32   And like Marco said, we could unwrap them,

01:40:33   and there's a dog turd in there, and we'll see.

01:40:35   But for now, we're like, "There are many great gifts.

01:40:39   If something is for everybody under this tree of WWDC,"

01:40:42   and in a way, the hardware,

01:40:44   getting the hardware out of the picture

01:40:45   just stops us from talking about hardware,

01:40:47   and we're just like, all right, all of your platforms

01:40:49   have new, better things.

01:40:50   That is the-- this is the blessing of waiting all year

01:40:53   and holding all this stuff and holding it in for one big burst

01:40:56   is that we get to be cranky right up to the point

01:40:58   where everybody's saying, oh, they did have

01:41:00   a bunch of nice stuff for us.

01:41:01   Actually, I think, John, if we've learned anything

01:41:03   from today, it's that if it is a dog turd that's

01:41:06   in that gift box, it's actually a dog turd emoji

01:41:09   at three times the size.

01:41:11   And it's happy.

01:41:12   And it's a very happy dog turd.

01:41:14   All right, thanks a lot to our sponsors this week.

01:41:16   And thanks for all the live listeners for tuning in. We had 925 live listeners today.

01:41:21   Holy crap, seriously?

01:41:22   Yeah.

01:41:23   Wow.

01:41:24   So that might be a record for us. And thanks everybody and we'll cover a lot more this

01:41:27   next week. So we'll talk to you then. Thanks a lot.

01:41:29   Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin, 'cause it was accidental.

01:41:38   Accidental.

01:41:39   Oh, it was accidental.

01:41:40   Accidental.

01:41:41   John didn't do any research, Margo and Casey wouldn't let him

01:41:47   'Cause it was accidental, it was accidental

01:41:52   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:41:57   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:42:02   @CASEYLISS

01:42:07   So that's Kasey Liszt

01:42:08   M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:42:11   Auntie Marco Arment

01:42:14   S-I-R-A-C

01:42:17   USA Syracuse

01:42:19   It's accidental

01:42:22   They didn't mean to

01:42:25   Accidental

01:42:27   Tech broadcast so long

01:42:32   Alright, thank you live people, that's very kind of you to tune in and I'm sorry we weren't

01:42:35   in the chat room and I'm sorry we're basically hanging up on you, but we gotta go.

01:42:40   See you later.

01:42:41   I can't believe this worked.

01:42:42   Yeah, me neither.

01:42:42   [BEEP]