0:00:00Are we talking about that amazing thing we were just talking about in the pre-show?
0:00:03Are we talking about that anymore now, or are we done?
0:00:05Wait, what? The thing we were just talking about in the pre-show? The iPad Pro 9.7, whatever, whatever?
0:00:11Stop, stop. No, the thing that's happening next week. Are we talking about that? What's happening next week?
0:00:16Oh my god, Marco. How are we gonna have anything to say about that until it happens? Yeah, I guess not.
0:00:21I'll just be that jerk that's teasing. And then it'll just be like, "Oh, it's fine."
0:00:26That's how it's gonna go.
0:00:28[laughter]
0:00:29>> MATT: Something Marcos turned into John O'Rourke's father.
0:00:32>> JONATHAN [mocking voice] "I'm fine. I thought he was fine."
0:00:34>> MATT [normal voice] "I still--oh, oh, the ta--"
0:00:36[beep]
0:00:37>> MATT [normal voice] "Oi, you know what we need in our lives? We need some follow-up.
0:00:40We don't have that much this week, so it'll last about three hours.
0:00:43Why don't you tell us about anonymous former Apple employee, Jon?"
0:00:46>> JONATHAN Oh, who doesn't love anonymous former Apple employees?
0:00:49Last week, we discussed some more "Why don't we have cellular?" on the Mac.
0:00:55Mac, and have lots of different theories.
0:01:00There's one, this is one data point, this is a three year old data point from, again,
0:01:04an anonymous Apple employee, and he or she says, "A significant number of iPad owners
0:01:09do not have an iPhone.
0:01:10An insignificant number of MacBook owners do not have an iPhone."
0:01:15As of three years ago, anyway.
0:01:16So the idea there is, why don't you have cellular, you have cellular on the iPad, but you don't
0:01:20have it on a Mac.
0:01:21Why?
0:01:22Because lots of iPad owners don't have phones, but all the Mac users do
0:01:25That's an interesting data point may have contributed to their decision
0:01:29But as we talked about last show
0:01:31Just because you have a phone doesn't mean you want to waste its battery tethering and deal with all the tethering stuff when it's built in
0:01:36It's much nicer. But but anyway, that's an interesting number
0:01:39I probably would not have guessed that that like the the Mac well, I suppose so if you have a Mac
0:01:45Maybe you're like an old-school Apple user and you're like everybody who's got a MacBook's got an iPhone
0:01:49but the iPad is sold to a much wider audience.
0:01:51Anyway, there you have it.
0:01:53Take that for what it's worth from an anonymous
0:01:55Apple employee from three-year-old data.
0:01:57(laughing)
0:01:59- Fair enough.
0:02:00Scott Williams wrote in sometime over the last week
0:02:03and asked a question,
0:02:05which I thought was actually very interesting.
0:02:06He asked, "Why not use CloudKit
0:02:09for file uploads and overcast?"
0:02:10And unbeknownst to Marco, I replied to Scott,
0:02:13just the two of us, I didn't copy Marco and John,
0:02:16and I said, "I bet you anything
0:02:18it's just because S3 is what Marco knew,
0:02:21and he didn't feel like learning something different.
0:02:24But I'm not 100% sure is what I said to Scott.
0:02:28And then you did reply to everyone,
0:02:30and that is not the answer you had,
0:02:31which I was very surprised by.
0:02:32So why don't you answer the question, Marco?
0:02:34Why not use CloudKit?
0:02:35- Right, and actually, I mean,
0:02:36I've heard from a number of people on why don't I use X?
0:02:40One of the other Xs was Backblaze's new S3-like service
0:02:43that I believe is called B2.
0:02:45So the reason why I built this on S3 rather than all these other options is first, that
0:02:51Swilliams was right, that it was the thing I knew the best, but second, that I wrote
0:02:56that entire feature in 2014. That's the big reason. So that was before CloudKit and
0:03:02before Backblaze B2. And the reality is that the biggest cost of it, I don't actually
0:03:09know yet, but the biggest cost of it is more likely to be bandwidth than storage, because
0:03:14Bandwidth transfer is a lot more expensive on S3 than storages.
0:03:20Storages is something like 3 cents per gig month, something like that.
0:03:24And transfer in is free, transfer out, so when you re-download or play the file, that
0:03:29I have to pay for.
0:03:30And it's, you know, in large quantity, it's actually a non-trivial cost.
0:03:35And the bandwidth fees are actually fairly similar on almost every provider.
0:03:40CloudKit would be interesting because CloudKit is like free with a whole bunch of asterisks
0:03:43after it. One of the hold ups with that is simply that I'm not familiar with how it
0:03:50works yet and another big one is that I believe not all of those asterisks after it actually
0:03:56have definitions at the bottom of the page. Many of them are like, "You just don't
0:04:00know what will happen with this asterisk." You know, like if you go over all your quotas,
0:04:05it's kind of undefined and stuff like that. So like CloudKit is a bit of a risk. If I
0:04:12If I were writing all of this stuff from scratch today,
0:04:14I would probably first try to do all of it,
0:04:17the sync, everything, on CloudKit first.
0:04:20But because I wrote all this stuff before CloudKit existed,
0:04:23that's the main reason why it is the way it is.
0:04:26And so far, I mean, looking at how much space
0:04:30I'm actually using on S3 so far,
0:04:31I'm up to over 300 gigs now,
0:04:34but that's still something like 60 bucks a month in storage.
0:04:37So it really just, the question wound up being
0:04:40how much do I end up using in bandwidth costs?
0:04:43And if this cost does not end up being ridiculous,
0:04:48then I can of course raise the limit.
0:04:50Right now it's two gigs, but why not offer 10 gigs?
0:04:54I don't know, I could offer more if the costs stay
0:04:57reasonable, so I'm just gonna basically see
0:04:59what ends up being the average cost of it,
0:05:01and then I'll decide from there what to do.
0:05:03- Fair enough.
0:05:05John, why don't you tell us about why it may not be
0:05:06your fault that your poor iPod Touch walked on you?
0:05:10No, it's my fault a lot of people sent me links to various stories about
0:05:14Technology to break into cars
0:05:18particularly this one with keyless entry where you just have a little your key fob in your pocket and you just walk up to
0:05:24Your car and it unlocks and you get in and you drive away. I think you guys probably have that on your fancy cars
0:05:29Yep. Yep, and the way to
0:05:31the way you break into these well the way the system works obviously you walk up to the car and
0:05:38The car knows you're nearby because it sends a signal to your key fob and your key fob says oh
0:05:45I should open the door and sends a signal back and tells the car to open the door
0:05:49The way these break-in things work is if you're in a restaurant and your car is parked outside
0:05:56Your car is sending out a signal. Hey key fob. Are you there? Hey key fob
0:06:01Are you there but your key fobs not there the signal is very weak
0:06:03The signal only reaches when you're right next to your car essentially.
0:06:06These amplifiers take the car's signal, amplify it massively so your key fob in your pocket inside the restaurant can hear the car asking.
0:06:14And then the key fob thinks, "Oh, the car has asked me something. Here you go, car. Open your doors, please."
0:06:21And it sends a signal which can reach the car apparently from the key fob, because I guess they work from really far away in case you hit the button, you know.
0:06:28And then the door opens and the thief gets in.
0:06:31So it's an amplifier and what it's amplifying is the car's signal reaching out to your key
0:06:35fob and then your key fob just answers and opens the car door.
0:06:39I'm pretty sure no one used that on my car because I don't have one of those things.
0:06:42My car does not send out a signal to my key fob.
0:06:45I have the old fashioned kind of key fob where the way it works is you press a button on
0:06:48the key fob and it sends a signal to the car.
0:06:50Me getting close to my car with my key in my pocket does nothing.
0:06:52It does not open the doors for me.
0:06:55left it unlocked just that one time. anyway, car's locked now, got a new iPod in there,
0:07:01i'm fine. there are other, by the way, there are other things that you can use to break
0:07:07into cars like mine that just send a whole bunch of different signals to the car and
0:07:10all sorts of other hacks and things, but just all of that just sounds way, even the amplifier
0:07:14thing just sounds way too sophisticated for the crime that this seems to be, which is
0:07:19just wander down the street in the neighborhood and try every single car handle and if it's
0:07:22locked go on to the next one.
0:07:24I mean, you could also just use like a rock to break the window.
0:07:27I mean, it's like...
0:07:28Yeah, well, they don't want to break the window.
0:07:30They don't want to...
0:07:31The whole idea about this crime is you keep it low enough level that no one really gets
0:07:35upset about it because they didn't break anything on your car.
0:07:38You know what I mean?
0:07:39You're right.
0:07:40They could just break the window and get in there, however they want, or they can use
0:07:43some other way to break into the car.
0:07:44This is totally about, "I don't want to be bothered by that.
0:07:47If they leave the door open, there's enough people to leave the door open, why should
0:07:50I bother doing something that can make more noise, that can get me caught, that can get
0:07:53me in trouble that can make the police take notice, right? So this is totally a crime
0:07:57of opportunity. Just looking for the day I forget to lock my car door again.
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0:09:58- All right, so this past Monday,
0:10:01we had our first Apple event of the year,
0:10:03and we did not get new Macs.
0:10:06Sad times.
0:10:07- We spent a lot of time talking about 'em last week,
0:10:09and then nothing.
0:10:10- I mean, it's a bummer, but a lot of people are saying
0:10:14that oh, well this is a sign that Apple doesn't care
0:10:17about the Mac as much anymore.
0:10:19And I think it's true that Apple doesn't care
0:10:22that much about the Mac anymore,
0:10:23but I don't think this is a sign of that.
0:10:25I basically think like, if you give Apple
0:10:28the benefit of the doubt on this one,
0:10:29we know that releases of Macs are tied very heavily
0:10:34to availability of the CPUs we're going to use from Intel.
0:10:39And Intel, over the last few years,
0:10:41as they face a lot of challenges
0:10:43with all their chip manufacturing changes
0:10:46and progress over time, they have missed a lot
0:10:49of their target chip dates, maybe even all of them.
0:10:52They have just been very delayed and very late
0:10:55getting stuff out the door for a lot
0:10:57of the recent chip generations.
0:10:58And Skylake, of course, is no exception.
0:11:01It was one of the biggest ones, actually,
0:11:03that just, Skylake, the newest generation of their chips,
0:11:07has taken a very long time to come out.
0:11:09I think it was total, what, like a year late or something?
0:11:12It's very, it is definitely behind schedule.
0:11:15So the type of Skylake chips that go into MacBooks
0:11:20and MacBook Pros are usually the ones
0:11:21that have Intel's Iris Pro graphics in them.
0:11:24And so you can look around the industry
0:11:25and you can see like certain Skylake chips are out
0:11:28and you can buy certain ones in PCs
0:11:31for like months or recently.
0:11:34But the ones with Iris Pro that would go
0:11:36into the MacBook Pro, those as far as I know
0:11:40are not really out in quantity yet.
0:11:43So that is much more likely to be the reason here
0:11:46that we didn't see Macs.
0:11:48It's not necessarily that Apple is snubbing the Mac,
0:11:50it's way more likely that those chips,
0:11:53Apple just can't get enough of them yet from Intel,
0:11:56so they can't really release this thing yet.
0:11:58That's a way more likely explanation.
0:12:01Again, I do think that there are lots of signs
0:12:03all over the place that the Mac has kind of taken
0:12:05a backseat at Apple in recent years,
0:12:07but I don't think the absence of Max at this event
0:12:11is a sign of that necessarily.
0:12:13- And we'll talk about Intel's abandonment
0:12:15of their TikTok strategy probably on the next show
0:12:18unless we get through all the Apple event stuff,
0:12:21in which case we'll talk about it later,
0:12:22but anyway, suffice it to say that Intel is now formally
0:12:25acknowledging what Marco just said
0:12:27and we've all known for a long time,
0:12:28is that they make a lot of promises
0:12:30about when things will be ready,
0:12:31and they usually kind of are within their promise window,
0:12:34but at the very tail edge,
0:12:35excluding the models that Apple wants
0:12:37caveat, caveat, asterisk, asterisk,
0:12:39so it's nice to see them acknowledging the reality
0:12:42and changing their game plan.
0:12:43And I guess we'll talk more about why,
0:12:46what this means, blah, blah, blah,
0:12:48if and when we get to that topic, maybe next show.
0:12:50- And the other thing is, though,
0:12:51it is worth pointing out that Apple has contributed
0:12:56from their end to the long list between Cern Max.
0:12:59And the main way that this is not all Intel's fault
0:13:02is that Apple often, for their lower priority products,
0:13:06things like the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro especially.
0:13:09They often skip Intel generations.
0:13:12So Intel will often make them a new CPU
0:13:14and Apple will be like,
0:13:15"Eh, we just updated this product last year.
0:13:18"We don't need to do another one this year."
0:13:20And the Mac Pro tends to,
0:13:22I think for most of the recent generations,
0:13:24the Mac Pro has skipped roughly every other generation.
0:13:28So it is definitely partly Apple's fault.
0:13:31Also, Intel has been rolling out Skylake slowly
0:13:34over the last few months.
0:13:36You know, like the chip that is in the MacBook One,
0:13:40that's a different line than the chips
0:13:42that would be used in the MacBook Air,
0:13:44and those are a different line than the chips
0:13:45that would be used in the MacBook Pro.
0:13:46And the 13 and the 15 are also, I think, slightly different,
0:13:49like the quad versus the dual core there.
0:13:53But these chips are all released at different times.
0:13:56It's kind of like a rolling schedule usually
0:13:57in recent years with Intel.
0:13:58And so Apple could release MacBooks at a staggered schedule.
0:14:05And in fact, last year they did.
0:14:07If you remember last year, there were,
0:14:10I think the MacBook One came out first,
0:14:12then the Airs, and then the 13, and then the 15, right?
0:14:15Something like that?
0:14:16- Something like that.
0:14:17- They were staggered out among a few months.
0:14:18So, you know, Apple could have some of these chips,
0:14:21like the MacBook One's chip maybe,
0:14:23and just not have released it yet
0:14:24because they're waiting to do it all at once.
0:14:26So that's also kinda on Apple.
0:14:29But the main thing is the skipping of generations.
0:14:31That is the big one.
0:14:32Like, these, the chip that's in the 15 inch right now
0:14:35is, I think like three years old or something.
0:14:38I mean, it's like, it's pretty rough.
0:14:41The Mac Pro is also, again, in really bad shape.
0:14:43'Cause like, once you start skipping Intel generations
0:14:47now, nowadays, like where the Intel generation itself
0:14:49is being extended because of various delays
0:14:52in getting to the next stage,
0:14:54when you start skipping generations,
0:14:56like Apple often does now,
0:14:57that could mean you're buying a three year old CPU
0:15:01when you go into the store today.
0:15:02And that just sucks.
0:15:04So I think if Apple wants to at least partially alleviate
0:15:08the notion that they're abandoning or neglecting the Mac,
0:15:13I think they gotta stop skipping these generations.
0:15:14'Cause if the generation's gonna go from nine months long
0:15:18to two years long, that's a much bigger thing
0:15:21that, you know, stop skipping them already.
0:15:22'Cause they also tie everything else to it.
0:15:25So for instance, like if you buy,
0:15:27this came up in the Oculus Rift comments
0:15:29from a couple weeks ago.
0:15:31- That's still a topic down there, by the way.
0:15:32- I know.
0:15:33If you buy a Mac Pro today,
0:15:35you're getting something like a three year old
0:15:36or four year old class GPU.
0:15:38Like you're getting a really old GPU by modern standards,
0:15:43even if you opt for the highest one.
0:15:44- Can you believe people out there
0:15:45are using three year old Mac Pros?
0:15:48Isn't that sad?
0:15:48- Well, they're not buying them, well they are,
0:15:52but ideally you wouldn't buy a three year old Mac Pro today.
0:15:56- The one you can buy today is three years old,
0:15:59that's what I'm getting at.
0:16:00- I know, right?
0:16:01So anyway, so like, you know, it sucks that because Apple
0:16:06skips these generations of CPUs on the lesser
0:16:09mainstream products, and these generations
0:16:12keep getting longer, by tying themselves to Intel's calendar
0:16:16they end up shipping a whole bunch of other old stuff too.
0:16:19Like, you know, the GPUs are grossly outdated
0:16:21usually on these products.
0:16:24The configuration options, things like SSD pricing
0:16:27for higher capacities, that tends to stay very high
0:16:31for very long because it's just hardly ever updated.
0:16:34You know, when you're updating every two to three years,
0:16:36and you're doing significant updates,
0:16:37then it's kinda hard to keep that stuff competitive.
0:16:40So that all is kind of, you know, that does all contribute.
0:16:43And all those things are within Apple's control of change,
0:16:46and I hope they do at some point.
0:16:48And all this is kind of to lead into
0:16:50the final conclusion here, which is,
0:16:52now that we're seeing quite how much Apple depends on Intel
0:16:57progress the Mac line forward.
0:16:59Assuming Apple fixes all their other stuff
0:17:01and starts, and doesn't skip any more CPU generation
0:17:04that Intel gives them, and maybe keeps things
0:17:06a little bit more up to date,
0:17:08which that's a big if, honestly,
0:17:09and I don't see it happening.
0:17:10But if they would do that, you can kinda see
0:17:14why Apple might someday want to move to R Max,
0:17:18because Apple could make their own CPUs that are Mac class,
0:17:22and if they could be at all competitive with Intel,
0:17:24which they, honestly, they might not even need to be.
0:17:27I mean, look at the MacBook One, an incredibly slow computer that seems to be selling pretty
0:17:30well anyway because nobody cares.
0:17:32So if Apple made their own ARM chips for Macs, for OS X, they would own this part of the
0:17:41pipeline that right now they depend on this partner who keeps delaying them.
0:17:48And that isn't necessarily to say that Apple would always do better, but it is exactly
0:17:52the same situation they were in back when they were on PowerPC waiting for IBM to do
0:17:56anything with PowerPC, you know, it's very similar to that situation, and Apple made
0:18:01a change, because they were tired of being dependent on this slow partner. They could
0:18:05do the same thing here with Intel at some point by saying, "You know what? We are
0:18:10done dealing with Intel holdups and Intel delays, we're going to try taking this on
0:18:14our own, and we're going to make Mac chips and just have like an A15X for the Mac or
0:18:19something." So this is all kind of big long-term stuff, and all this requires a lot more thought
0:18:25an effort into the Mac than what Apple might be giving recently, but I do think it's within
0:18:33the realm of reason.
0:18:34Anyway, new laptops will be out in a couple months.
0:18:38The answer is we don't know when they'll be out. Again, it depends on Intel. They could
0:18:43be out, I'd say at this point since they missed this event, the most likely release
0:18:47is June at WWDC, but it also could be any time before then or after then. With Intel's
0:18:53ship dates, we don't really know. It could be just like a press release and maybe some
0:18:59briefings sometime between now and June without an event. It could be another tiny event,
0:19:04although I doubt that. Or, you know, it could just be announced in WBC in June. So really
0:19:10it could be any of these things and we don't really know and probably only Apple and Intel
0:19:14know this.
0:19:15Steven McLaughlin All right, so we should probably cover the
0:19:17rest of the event chronologically.
0:19:18Steven McLaughlin The things that were actually in the event.
0:19:20- Right, so why don't we start how it started
0:19:24with the brief, what was it, 40 years and 40 seconds video?
0:19:29I don't have a lot to say about it.
0:19:30Other than that, I really enjoyed it,
0:19:31and I also really enjoyed Stephen Hackett and Jason Snell's,
0:19:36like, "We Didn't Start the Fire" style recap
0:19:39of everything that was in it.
0:19:41- Tim Cook did the little thing of like,
0:19:42"We at Apple don't usually like to look backwards,
0:19:44but it seems kinda like the new Apple
0:19:47kinda likes to look backwards sometimes,
0:19:48like a little bit more than they used to."
0:19:50'cause Steve Jobs was famously against ever doing anything
0:19:53remotely nostalgic, so it was just forward, new, new.
0:19:56Of course he did do things like with the 1984 iPod ad
0:19:59and stuff like that, but it seemed more rare back then.
0:20:02This was small and it's just a bunch of words on a screen
0:20:04and it was fun and cute or whatever,
0:20:06but it's like, I don't know,
0:20:07maybe Apple's just getting to that age
0:20:09where there's like a lot of round number anniversaries
0:20:11and birthdays, the 25th anniversary
0:20:13or the 30th anniversary of the Mac,
0:20:15the 40th anniversary of the company, you know,
0:20:18the last town hall thing,
0:20:20just seems to me that the new Apple seems
0:20:22ever so slightly more sentimental than it used to be.
0:20:26I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
0:20:28I mean, I'm more sentimental. - I agree.
0:20:30- I'm old too, you know.
0:20:31(laughing)
0:20:33The text name video, it was cute,
0:20:35but I like the fact that it was 40 seconds,
0:20:38but it wasn't anything too wonderful.
0:20:41- I mean, I enjoyed it,
0:20:42and I didn't think it was overly self-indulgent,
0:20:46like the thousand no's for every yes or whatever it was.
0:20:50I also liked that video,
0:20:51but it kind of ran for a long time and got a little bit.
0:20:53- But that was forward-looking though.
0:20:55That was like, this is the new Apple.
0:20:56This is what we're doing going forward.
0:20:57And I give them lots of leeway
0:20:59to sort of set a new direction.
0:21:00This is purely like, hey, it's an anniversary.
0:21:03We did a bunch of cool things in the first 40 years.
0:21:05- Yeah, yeah.
0:21:06And I liked it and I liked it because it was quick,
0:21:08it was funny, and it didn't take things too seriously.
0:21:13So I quite liked the video.
0:21:15- I didn't like that it wasn't chronological though.
0:21:18- Of course. - That bothered me.
0:21:19'Cause if you're trying to match up,
0:21:21it's kind of chronological, but then it jumps back
0:21:23and it goes all over the place.
0:21:24And like, just do it chronological.
0:21:26(laughing)
0:21:28- Sorry, John.
0:21:28After that, we heard about privacy.
0:21:31And even since we're recording this on Wednesday evening,
0:21:35the conference or whatever you wanna call it,
0:21:38the keynote took place Monday afternoon, proper time.
0:21:42So even 24 hours later, there's been new developments in this whole privacy battle with the FBI.
0:21:49And I don't know which one of you guys put this link to the New York Times in here, but
0:21:51perhaps you can talk about that a little bit more.
0:21:53Well, I mean, so he, Tim Cook was on stage and being kind of like very assertive and
0:21:59determined, you know, as you all know in the audience, because you're a bunch of tech reporters,
0:22:03here's the thing that we've been battling the FBI and Department of Justice over and
0:22:07Apple's committed to privacy and we're going to fight this fight and so on and so forth.
0:22:11and then the audience applauds and is like, yay.
0:22:13And then like one or two days later,
0:22:15the Department of Justice is like,
0:22:17actually it turns out we might have another way
0:22:18into this phone, nevermind about that hearing
0:22:20we were gonna have Apple.
0:22:21Like someone else approached the FBI
0:22:23and said they can get us into the phone.
0:22:24So nevermind for now.
0:22:25So they postponed the hearing, perhaps indefinitely,
0:22:29and the government is going off and do something else.
0:22:31And everyone's trying to read the tea leaves.
0:22:33Could they always have gotten into it?
0:22:34Do they get cold feet?
0:22:35Is this actually someone new saying,
0:22:37hey, here's like a box you can buy in China
0:22:39that will unlock this phone?
0:22:41FBI, you should have known about it, but you're a bunch of dunces. It's so hard to tell what's
0:22:44actually going on, but the bottom line for Apple is they were all stealing for a fight,
0:22:48and that fight has been either postponed or canceled. So it's like, "Oh, all right, well,
0:22:53I guess we'll wait to see if the government comes back and says, 'No, seriously, we want
0:22:58you to do this.'" But for now, it seems like a stay of execution for Apple.
0:23:02Which is excellent. I think it's most likely to be a combination
0:23:08of all those possibilities that you outlined, John? Like, I think if you looked at the way
0:23:13the legal briefs were going back and forth, the FBI really did not have much of a leg
0:23:18to stand on legally, according to what most lawyers, which we are not, seem to think about,
0:23:24you know, these briefs and these arguments. It seems like the FBI was very likely to lose,
0:23:30basically. And so, they're bailing out. And that's very smart from their point of
0:23:36view because we all suspect or know that this is very much about setting precedent and they
0:23:44wanted to set precedent that would allow them to compel Apple to break into any phone they
0:23:50demanded, secretly probably, all the wonderful stuff our government does now in the name
0:23:55of freedom. There was an equal chance if they lost to set a bad precedent for the FBI, which
0:24:01which should be like if Apple successfully defended against this and courts ruled in
0:24:07Apple's favor saying, "No, you can't make Apple do this," then that hurts the FBI's
0:24:12cause for themselves. So if they were pretty sure they were going to lose, the best thing
0:24:17to do is say, "Yeah, never mind, we'll fight this again later," and that's basically
0:24:21what they've done.
0:24:22I don't know if their handicapping of their chances of losing changed that much after
0:24:26seeing Apple's argument. It's so hard to tell when there's the possibility that one
0:24:30of the the parties to this lawsuit is incredibly incompetent and doesn't know anything about the
0:24:34tech stuff because if you if you believe that being like well maybe maybe FBI really did think
0:24:38they had a strong case but then when the facts came to light and Apple got to respond like oh
0:24:43maybe we don't have a strong case but then you would think seriously would they not know all
0:24:47these things and so it's so hard to tell like are they super devious and just like bluffing or did
0:24:53they really not know that it seemed like they didn't have a good case and the other possibility
0:24:56the even more cynical one is they just decided you know what if it's a lot easier if we just
0:25:01get laws passed that make it make that force apple to do what we want so we will retreat
0:25:06and uh you know go through government channels to try to uh you know influence the congress to pass
0:25:13the terrible laws that we want them to pass and we'll secretly pass them tonight while no one's
0:25:16watching because we have enough people who vote for them because they have lobbyists from you know
0:25:20whatever like the typical way the government passes laws that don't have popular support, right?
0:25:26Right, in the name of fighting this war that somehow never ends and is vaguely defined.
0:25:31Right, right, exactly. It is like, "terrorism, blah, blah, blah, you know,
0:25:34Apple being mean, blah, blah, blah, encryption is going to kill your children," whatever.
0:25:37Anyway, so that's another possibility that they decided, "this is too much of a hassle,
0:25:42even if we're going to win, it's so much better if we can just get terrible laws passed." And
0:25:45that has worked really well for lots of terrible laws that involve warrantless wiretapping and the
0:25:50the Patriot Act and all the other things they've done. It's like that's a proven strategy.
0:25:53This whole battling a company in court, especially a company that has a lot of money for lawyers,
0:25:57that seems like a lot of work. So who knows? Who knows what's going on? But either way,
0:26:01Apple was all sort of grim and determined and committed. And that determination has
0:26:06fizzled because now they had nothing to be determined about. And they can just going
0:26:09back to suspecting that the NSA is putting secret chips into all their servers.
0:26:13Delightful. So there was that speech about privacy, the aftermath thereof, and then we
0:26:20got to talk about the environment. And I was very pleased to see that the first not-Tim person on
0:26:27stage was a woman, Lisa Jackson, a woman of color, no less, which is excellent. And she was up there
0:26:32for quite a while. And this is the first time I can recall seeing her on stage. Is that fair to
0:26:36say, or am I forgetting one? She might have been up there before, I think, for talking about
0:26:40environment but but yeah like the this is something that that people are
0:26:45watching now Apple watchers are watching now because Apple itself has tried to do
0:26:51better about diversity and is giving these diversity reports to say how are
0:26:55we doing how far do we have to go Apple itself has given itself a bad grade on
0:27:00diversity and continues to give itself a bad grade on diversity because it
0:27:03deserves a bad grade on diversity like but yeah but now when we when we watch
0:27:08these keynotes especially as compared to some other companies for example Google
0:27:10Google has historically done much better in terms of who is on stage talking, right?
0:27:15And it's not just who's on stage talking.
0:27:17Like, you can just, you know, we'll just pick someone up there and try to put a diverse
0:27:20face on things.
0:27:21Who's on stage talking always necessarily reflects who's in charge of things.
0:27:25And that is the type of problem where you can't fix it overnight unless you fire everybody
0:27:30and start over.
0:27:31And that's usually people don't like to do that.
0:27:33People are like, "We're cleaning house.
0:27:35The whole top five layers of the org chart, everybody's fired and we're starting over."
0:27:40So it's going to take Apple a long time to undo…
0:27:42That would be interesting.
0:27:43Yeah.
0:27:44It's going to take Apple… well, Steve Jobs kind of did that, but he just replaced
0:27:47all the white dudes with white dudes.
0:27:48It's going to take a long time for Apple to undo the decades and decades of promoting
0:27:54white dudes, essentially.
0:27:55All right?
0:27:56So you can't, you know, you can't just… you can't fix it overnight, which isn't
0:28:00an excuse, but it's just showing how difficult it is to make this change and how deep this
0:28:05stuff goes, right?
0:28:06So trying to, at the very least, do a little bit better on each successive keynote is,
0:28:13I think, important.
0:28:14But every time they do it, it almost highlights how far they have to go.
0:28:18You know what I mean?
0:28:20This is literally the best you can do, and you've got to dig all the way down to your
0:28:23vice president of environment to come up with a female speaker.
0:28:26No one who's in charge of iOS or the Mac or Apple TV or anything like that is any more
0:28:32diverse than just a million other white guys.
0:28:34So it's difficult to know how, like, I mean, I know how I feel about this, but like, what
0:28:40kind of feedback would you give to Apple?
0:28:43Because it's clear that they're trying to do something, but it's also clear that they're
0:28:47like, that it's almost an un-independent wall.
0:28:49And you wouldn't tell them, "You need to fire everybody and start over."
0:28:52You would hope that they're working internally to try to hire and promote more equitably
0:28:59than they have been.
0:29:01But for you to see results of that, it's going to take years and years and years, simply
0:29:05because like I said, you just can't fire everybody.
0:29:09And it doesn't necessarily have to start at the bottom.
0:29:10You can hire women into the top like they did for their head of retail and stuff too.
0:29:14But it's a long road.
0:29:18To that credit, I mean, we'll talk about the environment in a second, but it seems like
0:29:21Apple at least knows that they have a problem and is trying to do something about it.
0:29:27But it's difficult to tell whether Apple is being ineffectual in their efforts or they're
0:29:33being as effective as they possibly can and it's just going to take for friggin' ever.
0:29:37All right, so let's talk about the environment a little bit.
0:29:41Apple cares.
0:29:42And they had said a couple of years ago, which I don't recall when that was, that they wanted
0:29:46to be 100% based on renewable energy.
0:29:52And they aren't there yet, but they're 93% worldwide, and apparently 100% renewable in
0:29:5823 countries, including the States, if I'm not mistaken.
0:30:01Their environment, this aspect of their environment, the energy aspect of their environment, I
0:30:04think is one of the best things Apple is doing, simply because they are so well positioned
0:30:09to do what they're doing.
0:30:10So it's a win-win for Apple.
0:30:14So obviously they get the PR advantage of saying, "Look how environmentally green we
0:30:17are, and we're setting an example for everybody else, and blah, blah, blah."
0:30:21But it also costs them less money, not in the short term, but in the long run.
0:30:28And why does every company not do this?
0:30:31Why doesn't every single company in the entire United States use all renewable energy and
0:30:36do all this stuff?
0:30:37Well, because it costs tons of money up front.
0:30:38They build solar panels.
0:30:40They buy, you know, they build wind farms.
0:30:42They invest money in these.
0:30:43Like, they're paying to put all those solar panels on top of the buildings in wherever
0:30:47that was, Singapore or whatever.
0:30:49And they're building a huge solar arrays outside of, you know, there's a huge capital investment.
0:30:54Who can afford to make these gigantic capital investments so you can make it back slowly
0:30:57over the next 20 years?
0:30:59Apple, that's it, because they got tons of money.
0:31:01Like that's not their problem.
0:31:03They have the capital.
0:31:04So this is exactly what Apple should be doing.
0:31:07Hey, we have a huge amount of money.
0:31:09Cash flow is not our problem.
0:31:11We are committed to having these data centers or these stores or whatever for a long, long
0:31:15time.
0:31:16all the money that we have, put it up front to build, you know, if there's not renewable
0:31:20energy, we'll build it. If there is, we'll try to subsidize it or buy it or, you know,
0:31:23pay for it, whatever it is that, you know, that other companies can't do because like,
0:31:26that's great, but I don't have no two billion dollars to put all these solar panels up,
0:31:29right? Let's invest that money and then let's slowly make it back over years and years of
0:31:34saying, oh, now our data center is powered half by the sun and half by these other renewable
0:31:38things, whatever. They will make it back eventually. And even if they don't, it's such a drop in
0:31:44the bucket compared to their other expenses and the other things they spend money on.
0:31:47It's just a smart thing to do.
0:31:50So especially when I saw them putting solar panels on the roof of skyscrapers and stuff,
0:31:54seriously, you're going to try to power your retail stores with renewable energy?
0:31:58As far as Apple is concerned, it's like, sure, why the hell not?
0:32:00I mean, it's just a smart investment.
0:32:04And if you are a company that has short-term thinking or doesn't have as much cash as Apple
0:32:09or is sort of like pinching pennies, like if you're like the Walmarts of the world or
0:32:13or whatever, where every razor thin margins
0:32:15and pressuring your suppliers
0:32:16and not giving your employees healthcare
0:32:18and doing everything you possibly can
0:32:19to save every penny,
0:32:20it's not as likely to occur to you that,
0:32:23hey, we should put solar panels
0:32:24on top of every single Walmart
0:32:25and make them carbon neutral
0:32:30or putting energy back on the grid
0:32:32or whatever it is that you wanna be doing
0:32:33because that just seems like a lot of capital investment
0:32:35for like a silly PR win.
0:32:37But I truly think the people in charge of Apple
0:32:39don't see it as a silly PR win.
0:32:40They see it as like a strategic advantage,
0:32:44as in we are self-sufficient, another type of thing like,
0:32:46oh, we don't rely on Intel for our CPUs
0:32:48and we don't rely on the stupid power companies for our power
0:32:50but we'll do all that ourselves.
0:32:52And they, like so many other things
0:32:54that Tim Cook is Apple has been behind,
0:32:57they really seem to believe in this
0:32:58as having an environmental impact,
0:33:00even though Apple is one small company
0:33:01and really it's a drop in the bucket.
0:33:03I think the most important thing they do is set an example.
0:33:05So I don't know if it deserved as much time
0:33:08as they gave it in the keynote.
0:33:10I feel like they just need to mention this,
0:33:12keep mentioning this over and over again,
0:33:13kind of like they do with like the, you know,
0:33:15lead-free, PVC-free check boxes
0:33:17they put in every single product.
0:33:19Like we've seen that a million times now,
0:33:20but eventually, hopefully it goes,
0:33:22you know, it gets through everybody's head,
0:33:24and when they don't see it for someone else's product,
0:33:26they say, "So I guess your product contains lead?"
0:33:28You know, so eventually I hope that Apple keeps showing
0:33:32these environmental things,
0:33:33and when other companies have big presentations
0:33:35about new data centers, infrastructures,
0:33:37The press can ask, are you powering this with renewable energy?
0:33:41If not, why not?
0:33:42Excellent.
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0:35:28- All right, so then ResearchKit and CareKit.
0:35:31ResearchKit was introduced, I think they said
0:35:33about a year ago, is that right?
0:35:34and Care Kit is a new kind of extension of that.
0:35:38I don't really have that much to say about this.
0:35:41Other than that, I very much applaud it,
0:35:42and I think they're doing great work here.
0:35:43- Yep, that's another example of an initiative
0:35:47that other companies probably wouldn't do anything about,
0:35:50'cause it's not gonna be a big moneymaker.
0:35:52The number of people who are medical researchers
0:35:54who are also their customers is small.
0:35:56I don't know if that's a big market,
0:35:57but it's not as big as the consumer market,
0:35:59so why do they bother doing it?
0:36:01It's another one of those things that Apple does
0:36:02because they think it's the right thing to do and they're in a position to use their
0:36:06technology to make this stuff better.
0:36:08They're always bragging about a research kit.
0:36:10These companies that use it to collect these programs, they use it to collect data, like
0:36:14within 24 hours became the biggest Parkinson's study just because it's, you know, they could
0:36:18distribute their app to all these people and gather data.
0:36:20And CareKit is the extension to say, you're not part of a medical research program, you're
0:36:24just a patient.
0:36:26And CareKit is something you can use to communicate your status back to your doctor and they can
0:36:31can send you updates to your plan of care
0:36:35after being released from the hospital after surgery
0:36:37or just keep tracking chronic conditions
0:36:39and stuff like that.
0:36:40And this stuff is all open source.
0:36:42It's an admirable effort.
0:36:46It got a lot of time in this thing.
0:36:48CareKit is a natural extension of ResearchKit
0:36:50and this is exactly the type of thing
0:36:51that we would hope a company like Apple would do.
0:36:54So thumbs up.
0:36:55- Yep, I would also refer everybody
0:36:57to this week's episode of Connected over at Relay FM,
0:37:00episode number 83.
0:37:02They have a lot more knowledge about the healthcare system
0:37:06and its needs, and they had a great discussion
0:37:09about this this week.
0:37:10Plus, it's a great episode otherwise.
0:37:12So I recommend you check out Connected in number 83
0:37:14for a more extended discussion on this research initiative
0:37:18for health and stuff.
0:37:21- Awesome.
0:37:22Moving on, we have the brand new Apple Watch.
0:37:26It's lighter, it's thinner, it's faster.
0:37:29- Oh wait, nevermind.
0:37:30No, but we did get new bands.
0:37:31- Oh, I'm so sad for the Apple Watch.
0:37:34- I am, but I'm not.
0:37:35I didn't actually expect to get a new watch this time,
0:37:37and I'm not really disappointed that we didn't.
0:37:39- Well, why not though?
0:37:41Because the watch came out a year ago,
0:37:44and it was unveiled like 18 months ago.
0:37:46So why didn't you expect to get a new one?
0:37:49'Cause usually after a year of a new product,
0:37:51Apple ships a much improved second version.
0:37:54- 'Cause it was in the town hall, that's why.
0:37:56- Well, okay, but like, is there a great reason
0:38:00why we don't have new watch hardware yet?
0:38:02Because here's what I see about the watch.
0:38:05The problem with the watch is a combination
0:38:07of incredibly slow first gen hardware
0:38:12and fairly young and limited and kind of confusing software.
0:38:17And they have made some software advances
0:38:22since the release, but most of them
0:38:24have not been very significant in terms of what the user
0:38:27actually experiences with the watch on a regular basis.
0:38:30For the most part, it's like, same stuff,
0:38:33running at the same speed, roughly,
0:38:34just a few minor improvements here and there,
0:38:37but not a whole lot.
0:38:38There's still tons of limits.
0:38:40There's still not a lot of customization
0:38:42of the watch faces, stuff like that.
0:38:44It's like, as our friend Steve Tratt and Smith pointed out,
0:38:47there are more colors of the sport band
0:38:49than there are watch faces that you can configure
0:38:52in software.
0:38:53(laughs)
0:38:54(laughing)
0:38:56It seems like what the watch desperately needs
0:38:59is faster hardware, number one,
0:39:01and then a lot more work on the software, number two.
0:39:05What we have now a year later
0:39:06is really neither of those things,
0:39:09at least from what we can see.
0:39:11Instead, we have the same hardware now a year later
0:39:16that will presumably be here for at least another,
0:39:19I don't know, six months?
0:39:20Maybe this fall we'll get new watches, I don't know.
0:39:21Maybe it'll be next spring, who knows?
0:39:23but we have now pretty old, pretty creaky hardware.
0:39:27And we have tons of variation that we can get
0:39:30in the case material, in the bands that we attach to it,
0:39:33in the colors of those bands.
0:39:34We have so much variation of all those things,
0:39:37but the actual watch experience is barely changed
0:39:42in the last year and needs a lot of help.
0:39:44So I kind of feel like, I don't know,
0:39:47I have this kind of larger concern with Apple
0:39:50that they are fighting a lot of battles on a lot of fronts.
0:39:55And we've talked in the past about how, you know,
0:39:58I'm concerned about them being stretched too thin,
0:40:00but I think we're kind of seeing what that means here.
0:40:03You know, we see, as I mentioned a half hour ago,
0:40:05like the Macs get like generations skipped of hardware
0:40:08and just kind of ignored, you know, some models
0:40:10like the Mini just get kind of neglected for years.
0:40:13It seems like the watch is possibly
0:40:17like a low priority for them,
0:40:18because now we have year number two of it
0:40:22and no new hardware yet and minimal change to the software.
0:40:25Again, we'll see what happens to WDC.
0:40:27Maybe they will unveil a significant update to the software.
0:40:31I hope they would, that that would be the place
0:40:33to do it in the time.
0:40:34But I just feel like, I feel like the watch has not
0:40:39gotten enough attention and has not improved enough
0:40:42for being in the point in its life cycle where it is.
0:40:47We didn't blink an eye when Apple let the iPad Air 2
0:40:51continue to be the flagship iPad for more than a year.
0:40:55We didn't blink an eye at that because that was like,
0:40:57okay, well, this is like the iPad's,
0:40:58it was like the iPad's fifth year and it was a great model.
0:41:01Nobody really had any complaints about it, so great.
0:41:03But the watch hasn't reached that point yet
0:41:05or shouldn't have reached that point yet.
0:41:06The watch, this is a brand new product.
0:41:09It's first year and it seems like it's already
0:41:12getting on a slow cycle and I'm worried about it
0:41:14because it seems like if Apple was really
0:41:17putting their weight behind this product,
0:41:19it seems like we should have seen more by now.
0:41:21It almost feels to me like Apple kinda lacks hustle
0:41:26the way they used to have it.
0:41:28They used to really put their weight behind new things
0:41:31and really try to make them work.
0:41:32I mean, not everything they were paying,
0:41:33but most things, major new products,
0:41:37they would really put their weight behind
0:41:38and really back them up for a while and drive them forward.
0:41:41I mean, it just seems, you know, we'll see what happens
0:41:43with the TV going into this fall.
0:41:45Like, will the TV get updated on a regular basis,
0:41:48or will it get neglected?
0:41:49We'll see what happens with the iPad, you know,
0:41:51as, for a while the iPad was neglected pretty badly,
0:41:54and, you know, software-wise at least.
0:41:56And, you know, it got a lot of attention recently,
0:41:58which we'll get to, but we'll see how that plays out,
0:42:02you know, over the next couple of years.
0:42:03I hope they keep the attention level up for iPad users,
0:42:05but I don't know that they will.
0:42:07I feel like they're fighting on so many fronts
0:42:10that they're obviously having trouble staying competitive
0:42:14in certain areas.
0:42:15Like I recently got an Amazon Echo.
0:42:17The Echo is really good.
0:42:19And it kind of highlights what Siri should be
0:42:23and maybe an area of hardware Apple should consider being in
0:42:27that they're just not in,
0:42:29and that Siri is not this advanced
0:42:33or is not this well integrated with other products
0:42:36and doesn't have any kind of developer story yet.
0:42:39So you look at a lot of Apple projects now,
0:42:42and it just seems like they lack that hustle
0:42:45that Apple stuff used to have.
0:42:46And I think a big part of that is just they're doing so much
0:42:49and they're fighting so many battles now.
0:42:51And I don't think the company's resources
0:42:53have grown to match that.
0:42:56I don't know, I don't know, what do you think?
0:42:58- So a few things here.
0:43:01First, I don't know why I didn't expect a watch update,
0:43:05but it just, the watch never felt to me
0:43:08that it was going to be an annual update sort of thing.
0:43:13And if--maybe that's because I buy--or I used to buy wristwatches once every, like, five or six years.
0:43:20And I think that we're running a little bit into this with the iPad as well,
0:43:24because the iPad isn't really an annual update kind of device either, in terms of consumers.
0:43:29But I didn't really think we were going to get an update quite yet.
0:43:32And honestly, I'm not sure when we will. I couldn't even wager a guess.
0:43:35But I also don't think that...
0:43:39I like my watch a lot, although I like it for a lot less than I thought I would.
0:43:45I thought I would like to use all sorts of third-party apps, and I thought I would like
0:43:49to use it almost not as a replacement for my phone, but I would turn to my watch more
0:43:54often than I would turn to my phone.
0:43:56And I've found that, for me, my watch is a great notification, like triage device.
0:44:02It's great for the weather, it's great for my schedule, and it's great for health, and
0:44:06that's about it.
0:44:07I don't use it for pretty much any third-party apps outside of things that I stick on my
0:44:11watch face as complications, which basically is Carrot Weather and Fantastical.
0:44:16We didn't talk about this, I think, last time, but Apple's practice over the last several
0:44:23years with most of its products is they want to keep making a physical design for at least
0:44:29two years and they usually do that by keeping the the old models around right for the phones or with
0:44:34with the 5 SE even longer than two years. So even if Apple revises the watch wouldn't you think they
0:44:43would want to keep making this this size and shape watch for two years and so that two years isn't up
0:44:50and so it's not so much that I didn't think this watch would still be around it's just that there's
0:44:54There's no replacement for it.
0:44:56And that's the thing I have thinking about seeing all these new bands and everything
0:45:00is that like if and when a new watch comes out, first of all what can they even do?
0:45:05Well, they can put a slightly lower power CPU that's slightly faster with, you know,
0:45:09new process technology or whatever and that will presumably let them get more battery
0:45:12life and maybe they can use a smaller battery and make it thinner and try to fix all the
0:45:16things that we think they should fix hardware-wise just incrementally get a little bit better.
0:45:20But then would they keep selling the Apple Watch 1 right alongside it for say a reduced
0:45:26price, not just the sport model but all of them a reduced price, just because they have
0:45:31all the tooling to build these watches and they would just say, "Well, we feel like we
0:45:34want to make every size and shape for at least two years to recoup the costs on the tooling
0:45:39and the process."
0:45:40If that's the case, I don't, I mean, I'm kind of like in the same boat as Casey.
0:45:47Why didn't I expect it?
0:45:48other than the town hall thing, why didn't I expect new watches?
0:45:50It just doesn't seem like, I don't know, even if they had a new one, I wasn't confident
0:45:55that the new one would advance to such a degree.
0:46:00Basically Apple's treatment of this product has so clearly put it as a fashion accessory
0:46:05and not a tech accessory and fashion accessories, they have been changing it.
0:46:09The fashion parts of it, new colors, you can get a rose gold one, you can get a lunar gold
0:46:14one, you get a million different bands, they have been doing that.
0:46:17for a fashion-focused product, that is hustle, kind of, you know what I mean?
0:46:23And Marco, you're thinking of it as if it's a tiny computer and they have to advance the
0:46:25computing inside because the problems you see with the product have to do with like
0:46:28software, the sort of functionality of the software and the focus of the product and
0:46:33the speed of the hardware.
0:46:34But as a fashion accessory, it's gotten more updates than any product app has ever sold.
0:46:39And so, I don't know, I feel mostly okay with waiting two years for a hardware update
0:46:47on this product if in the meantime every six months they give new bands and new colors
0:46:51and everything because that seems like a cadence and a treatment of this product that is in
0:46:57keeping with the supposed theme of the product. And I agree with you that they do have problems
0:47:01that they need to address on the software side and better hardware is always better.
0:47:05But I don't know, I'm not too broken up about it.
0:47:08Well I think most of what, I agree with most of what you just said. You know, I am very
0:47:14happy they're keeping the fashion angle up and they are doing a really impressive job
0:47:17cranking out tons of new bands.
0:47:19And I'm very happy to see all these new bands,
0:47:21'cause if I go back to my Apple Watch on a regular basis,
0:47:24you bet I'm gonna rock something like the red leather band
0:47:26or something crazy, and I'm gonna love having these
0:47:28new options come out all the time.
0:47:30That's great, and I'm glad they're doing that.
0:47:33But that stuff is relatively easy.
0:47:36Relative to everything else the watch needs to be better,
0:47:39they're doing the easy stuff and the stuff
0:47:41that gets them a lot of profit.
0:47:43What the watch needs to be good is both.
0:47:45that it needs both the fashion angle to keep being up,
0:47:50and honestly, I'm not entirely sure
0:47:53that's incredibly well-guided of them
0:47:56because the Apple Watch itself, the watch part of it,
0:48:01if you really wanna keep up with fashion,
0:48:02that part needs to change on a regular basis too.
0:48:05- Well, they did change it.
0:48:06They have new colors and everything.
0:48:07- Well, yeah, they changed it a little bit.
0:48:09That's a minor change for fashion.
0:48:11Ultimately, I don't think a smartwatch
0:48:13will be a fashion object for that reason.
0:48:15they kind of can't change the body of it
0:48:18in dramatic ways frequently,
0:48:20because of all the software environment
0:48:22that has to run on it and everything.
0:48:23So I wouldn't expect this to be a fashion item really ever
0:48:28if it ever was, but if it is now,
0:48:32I wouldn't expect that to last forever,
0:48:34and treating it only as a fashion item I think is a mistake
0:48:37because that's not how fashion works.
0:48:39Fashion does not support the same rectangle
0:48:41with different bands indefinitely.
0:48:44So putting that fashion angle aside for a second,
0:48:47what the watch needs is to be really good,
0:48:50even at those basic functions.
0:48:51So I'm not saying it needs a faster CPU
0:48:53to play games on it or to run more advanced apps.
0:48:57I'm saying it needs faster CPU and better software,
0:49:01even just to do the basics.
0:49:03And even simple things like the Bluetooth communication
0:49:07to the phone is still unreliable.
0:49:09And I don't know whether that's the fault of Bluetooth,
0:49:12the big scary ghost of Bluetooth or what,
0:49:15but I have lots of other Bluetooth things that work great,
0:49:17so probably not just that,
0:49:19it's probably other reasons also.
0:49:20There's so much the watch could do,
0:49:23either that it can't do today,
0:49:25or that it does poorly today,
0:49:27that is all dependent on the hardware being very slow,
0:49:31and the software being very limited to conserve power.
0:49:34So if they would do something like
0:49:35increase the CPU performance by 25%,
0:49:38which, based on their mobile chips from their phones
0:49:41in the progression, those have made that is not unreasonable
0:49:43or unrealistic at all, in all likelihood.
0:49:46'Cause again, this hardware was shown to us
0:49:49in a nearly finished state 18 months ago.
0:49:51So they can probably release a new one
0:49:52that's pretty good now if they wanted to,
0:49:54if they put the resources behind it.
0:49:56And so a 20%, 25% gain in CPU performance
0:50:01would help tremendously.
0:50:02And suppose they could reduce power draw by 20, 25%.
0:50:07Well then maybe they could increase the frequency
0:50:09the complications update by, which can enable stuff
0:50:12to work better and can enable new kinds of apps.
0:50:15So I'm not saying they have to make massive advances
0:50:18in making this watch able to replace your phone
0:50:22or run really complicated apps or anything.
0:50:24I'm talking about just improving the basics by enough
0:50:27that you can really, really dramatically improve
0:50:31the core functionality.
0:50:32Like if you just improve the speed of the hardware
0:50:35and the power efficiency by, you know,
0:50:38not even like, you know, you don't even have to like
0:50:40quadruple them, just like, you know,
0:50:41improve them by a double digit percentage,
0:50:44and that can translate to real gain.
0:50:47I would not say that you can look at this object and say,
0:50:49"Oh, you know what, this is good enough for two years,
0:50:51"we don't need to update it."
0:50:52No, it's not good enough yet,
0:50:53and maybe in a few years we'll get there,
0:50:56but we're not there yet, and it really needs a lot of help
0:50:59to be a really good object besides just having cool bands.
0:51:03- Anyway, new watch in six months
0:51:04with the FaceTime camera, right?
0:51:07- Something like that.
0:51:07- Oh God, I hope not.
0:51:09- I don't know, we need to move on,
0:51:10but I don't know if it's really fair to just say that,
0:51:13oh, this design can't work for two years.
0:51:14I mean, how long has Rolex looked about the same
0:51:17to someone like me who doesn't really tell
0:51:19the minute differences between them?
0:51:21All Panerais I've ever seen look the same to me.
0:51:23Every 911 is the same since the beginning of time.
0:51:27- The 911s are not the same.
0:51:28- They're the same.
0:51:29- Yeah, Apple's not Rolex and Panerai and Porsche,
0:51:32also there's a lot of Rolexes and Panerais, and they have gone in and out of fashion over
0:51:37time.
0:51:38Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that this should be the forever look, but I think to say that
0:51:43it will absolutely time out, so to speak, in the next two years, I don't know if that's
0:51:48really fair. It may end up that you're right, but I don't know if we can really see that
0:51:52now. And having these bands changing constantly is a good thing, like you said. And I wanted
0:51:58to also quickly say that I've been very impressed with the web presence for the watch since
0:52:03the beginning. The way they did the bands, like the kind of animations of them clasping
0:52:07and unclasping or whatever you call it. And I really like this new gallery that they have
0:52:11where you can select what case you would like to look at by kind of scrolling left and right.
0:52:16And then you can scroll left and right to figure out what band you like, and then they
0:52:20have all three faces as well. But I really do like this new web presence. I wish they
0:52:25had prices on here but I think it's the new gallery is really well done and
0:52:29there's something to be said for that. Yeah no I mean I think they are nailing
0:52:33it on the bands the bands are awesome and they continue to be awesome and they
0:52:38always have been awesome from day one like Apple's bands are awesome but the
0:52:42rest of the watch also needs a lot of help and it so far we've seen almost
0:52:47none. They could just be a band seller for other watches. Wow it did get a price
0:52:53So there's that. What did they talk about next?
0:52:57TVOS got an update. I don't really have a lot to say about that.
0:53:01I don't know. Do you guys have anything?
0:53:03We can do the highlights. It'll be quick. So they put up the "The future of TV is apps."
0:53:07If you keep saying that, maybe it'll be true. It would be nice if they got a subscription plan.
0:53:10No subscription streaming plan this time.
0:53:125,000 TV apps they have. I wonder how many of those are games.
0:53:16It's fine. You can do folders, which seems weird, but I suppose, you know,
0:53:21You know, it's I wish I kind of wish there was a nicer way to rearrange icons on the screen than having to use that
0:53:25silly remote
0:53:26Siri expanded to do all the things that we thought it should have done in the beginning as in letting you dictate
0:53:30Although it's weird like you can dictate your passwords
0:53:33But I don't want to dictate my passwords and in the were in the same room
0:53:38I'd like that my kids are in because they'll just like memorize it and buy things or something, you know
0:53:42But anyway, that's good and they expanded Siri to search more applications
0:53:47So these are all, you know, it's nice to see that the Apple TV, at least on the software front, is
0:53:51getting steady updates. There's still a team working on it that is not just sitting there
0:53:55and languishing. iCloud Photo Library, again, we all thought that should have been there in
0:53:57the beginning and we were sad that it wasn't, and now it is. I have to say, having tried it,
0:54:02the performance is not great. I enabled it, I logged in with my Apple ID, and then I went to
0:54:07my favorites album and looked at a bunch of blank thumbnails for a really long time. I tried to
0:54:12scroll around as the thumbnail started to appear, and I saw a cute picture that I wanted to show.
0:54:16every time I scrolled around to it with my remote and pressed the button,
0:54:20when that picture was totally highlighted, it was like the one that was big and coming out at you,
0:54:24it would open a different picture. It was driving me nuts. So their collection view is weird and
0:54:29buggy. And to this day, when I go to iCloud photos and go into my favorites collection,
0:54:33it's just a bunch of blank thumbnails with a couple of random ones filled in. So like,
0:54:36how long do I have to wait for it to appear? It's not looking great, but I'm glad it's getting updates.
0:54:41Yeah, and I really have come to love my new Apple TV. Now, admittedly, I use basically
0:54:48Plex Netflix and music on it, like the Apple Music app. I would kill for a native Spotify
0:54:57app, but even for those very few limited uses, it's actually kind of the same story I had
0:55:01with my watch earlier. For those limited uses, I really, really love it, and I'm happy with
0:55:07the way it is today. So, I mean, improvements are good.
0:55:09Of those 5,000 apps, I feel like I've used about 10 of them to try to stream video.
0:55:15I guess it's good that I have options, I just go through all of them and find out in what
0:55:18ways they fail to fulfill my silly, lossless playback of blu-ray things.
0:55:23But there's such variety in terms of like, I was using Infused, DS Video, some other
0:55:29video one, Plex itself.
0:55:32All these different apps to try to see, how will you be able to play this?
0:55:35Will you play it back?
0:55:36Will you try to transcode it?
0:55:37What audio will be available?
0:55:38"Oh, this one only exposes stereo.
0:55:39"This one exposes the AC3 but converts it to PCM.
0:55:42"This one will send the AC3 directly to my thing."
0:55:44And of course none of them do 24 frames per second cadence.
0:55:47Anyway.
0:55:48- Video's the worst.
0:55:49- It's fun going through the apps that are there,
0:55:51but it's sad when I still can't find one to fulfill my needs.
0:55:54- I'm so happy I don't care about video as much as you do.
0:55:57- It's such a pain in the ass.
0:55:58- Amen.
0:55:59(laughing)
0:56:00Amen.
0:56:00- Stereo forever.
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0:58:03- So Apple did something mean during this event.
0:58:06They came out with a new four-inch phone,
0:58:10and that's mean because--
0:58:12- It was awesome.
0:58:12- As I think we discussed last time,
0:58:16I really do like my 6S,
0:58:18and I really have come to like
0:58:21all the screen real estate that it has,
0:58:24but every time I pick up my 5S
0:58:26that we use as a noise maker for Declan,
0:58:30just think to myself, "Oh, this feels so much better in the hand, and oh, I wish my 6S was
0:58:36more like this."
0:58:38And so now I'm torn.
0:58:39Like, what would I do?
0:58:42What would I do if there's a new 4-inch phone in addition to the others in this October
0:58:48or thereabouts?
0:58:49We'll see when we get there.
0:58:51But the new SE, the iPhone SE, it's a new 4-inch phone with the guts of the 6S for the
0:58:57the most part in what looks to be a damn near identical case to the 5S looks really good.
0:59:04And I haven't had the time to catch up on a lot of the reactions from this, but I did
0:59:07see that a friend of the show, John Gruber, sounds like he might be switching.
0:59:11It's not an identical case. That's why Johnny Ive wasn't there, because he was
0:59:15so in love with his machine chamfered, as he said, edges. I think that's how he said
0:59:20it. Anyway, the little edge that they shave off, the chamfered edge on the outside of
0:59:25the case used to be like polished. It's pronounced bezel. Yeah. So it would be like, I assume
0:59:32the manufacturing process was they would make the case anodized or not anodized, was it
0:59:37stainless steel or aluminum? I don't know. Yeah, it's aluminum, right? The 5S case? I
0:59:41think so. Anyway, it would have that sort of matte finish and then as a final step,
0:59:46they would shave down the edge and that would be all shiny and pretty. And I always thought
0:59:49that detail looks really good when it's close up, but when I see the phone in front of me,
0:59:55too small to read as anything particularly impressive. It would also nick up, you could
1:00:00notice nicks on it more than other places, and the new phone, this may seem like a subtle
1:00:05thing like "oh it's exactly the same case as the 5S" but it isn't. They mentioned that
1:00:09the edge was different, now it is just merely another shaped piece of aluminum that is completely
1:00:14anodized on all edges and all surfaces exactly the same way. Which has got to be much easier
1:00:19to manufacture and probably more durable, and it comes in all the usual colors we expect,
1:00:24Silver Space Gray, Rose Gold and Gold, which is now like that set of four kind of pale
1:00:30looking pastel colors is now like the Apple color scheme for all of their products.
1:00:34That's why we're fully expecting to have a Rose Gold MacBook Pro, but who knows if that
1:00:40will come to pass.
1:00:41But anyway, it looks, does it look less fancy than the 5S did?
1:00:47Maybe if you could see that shiny edge, I mean, maybe it is less fancy.
1:00:50and the other hand, it's kind of more uniform in appearance.
1:00:55But yeah, I think that little shiny edge
1:01:00is a great example of how this is like exactly
1:01:03like the 5S and 6S internals, except not quite.
1:01:06And the not quite parts of it
1:01:09are the only few dings against it
1:01:11if you were really truly hoping for a 100%
1:01:14of the power of the 6S in merely a smaller package.
1:01:17You got really close to it,
1:01:18closer than I thought that we would,
1:01:19because really this does have all the parts that count
1:01:22from the 6S, but it's not 100% of the way there.
1:01:27So no one is going to confuse this as a flagship phone,
1:01:30but for a lot of people, I think the SE shows
1:01:34that Apple learned the lessons of the 5C
1:01:36and that people probably do want a four inch phone,
1:01:39but they don't wanna feel like they're getting
1:01:41the cheap or crappy phone, because the number of people
1:01:43who will make that trade off is much smaller.
1:01:45They're like, "Oh, but I really want a white phone
1:01:48that I don't have to get a case with and the 5c feels so good but oh but it's slow
1:01:52and it's slower than the other one right and so this one takes away most of the excuses.
1:01:56If I was a small screen phone person the one missing feature that I would be most upset
1:02:04about is the new touch id sensor because I think it's really cool that it's faster and maybe
1:02:08secondarily missing 3d touch and I totally understand why those are missing and if they're
1:02:13If they're gonna skimp on anything,
1:02:14those are exactly what I would have skimped on.
1:02:16But overall, I think everyone who's seen this phone
1:02:21is pleasantly surprised about how much that if,
1:02:24hey, you want a small screen phone?
1:02:26This is a really, really good small screen iPhone.
1:02:29Like you will not feel bad about getting this phone
1:02:31for the most part, unless you're obsessed
1:02:33with like Touch ID or 3D Touch.
1:02:35- As we were talking about this, I pulled out my 5S
1:02:38and I started using it and I started trying to transcribe
1:02:40what you were saying into notes,
1:02:41like I said, typing on it and everything.
1:02:42Oh man, it's just so nice to hold, it's so nice to hit the sleep button in the right
1:02:47spot, it's so nice to reach everything on screen, and I honestly, I know a lot of people
1:02:53are saying that they're disappointed that the design really didn't change.
1:02:58I think that's a valid criticism, however, I really like the design.
1:03:02Like I like this design a lot more than I like the 6S design, and the 6 design.
1:03:07I just think this is a great phone and it's honestly very tempting to attempt to go back.
1:03:14I don't think I will because it is really hard for me to type on it but man I do love
1:03:20the way it feels and I love being able to reach everything so I totally get the appeal.
1:03:25And this is a lower priced phone too like I mean ignoring the fact that it's still 16
1:03:30gigs gag but this is the cheapest this is the new cheapest way to get an iPhone right
1:03:35like to get the, in their current lineup of phones,
1:03:39this is the cheapest one.
1:03:40And what you get for that amount of money,
1:03:43for the cheapest amount that you get,
1:03:44is a phone that's essentially as fast
1:03:46as their flagship phone.
1:03:47- Yeah.
1:03:48- Which that's a hell of a deal.
1:03:49Like again, ignoring the 16 gigs, you know,
1:03:51'cause you have the same, like,
1:03:53it's a good deal on an iPhone.
1:03:55You get an iPhone with probably really good battery life.
1:03:59It's really comfortable, it's super fast,
1:04:01it's got a really good camera,
1:04:02comes in all the variety of colors,
1:04:04and you get it for way cheaper than the 6S,
1:04:06but it's the same speed as the 6S.
1:04:08- Yeah, it's a really impressive offering.
1:04:10- Yeah, it's such a good value for what you're getting.
1:04:13I mean, really, I think they're gonna sell
1:04:16a ton of these things, and we might not hear
1:04:17about it very much, 'cause they might be selling
1:04:19a lot more outside the US, but I think
1:04:22it's a great product release, if not a little bit
1:04:26half-butted in the design department,
1:04:28but because I like this design,
1:04:29I don't consider that a bad thing.
1:04:31The 16 gig part is unfortunate,
1:04:34but this is kind of a strategy tax.
1:04:37Like, it's like they stuck with the 16 gig so long
1:04:41for all their other stuff, for the high end especially.
1:04:44What are they gonna do?
1:04:45Release this new, way cheaper phone?
1:04:48- This is the only one with decent storage
1:04:50and it's the cheapest one.
1:04:51- Yeah, release this one at 32 gigs at $400
1:04:55and then like the $700 6S doesn't have 32 gigs.
1:04:58Like, they can't, they're not gonna do that.
1:05:01So even if they wanted to finally fix the incredibly bad,
1:05:06customer sat debt they build up by these 16 gig phones,
1:05:12they can't fix it with this.
1:05:13They gotta wait till the seven in the fall
1:05:15and fix it then.
1:05:16- That's the other minor thing.
1:05:17Like this one, this goes 16, what is it?
1:05:191664 and that's it?
1:05:22- I believe that's right.
1:05:22- There's no 128, right?
1:05:24Yeah, so that's another area where,
1:05:26like to list all the areas where this falls down
1:05:28No latest Touch ID sensor, no 3D Touch,
1:05:32no 128 gig model, what else is it missing?
1:05:36- You know what, I bet it doesn't support reachability.
1:05:39- Yeah, no camera bump if you're looking for that, sorry.
1:05:42You'll have to get a different model.
1:05:44- Yep, and as a lot of people have noted,
1:05:47because it will most likely work with all the same
1:05:50accessories as the 5S, you can probably get
1:05:54not only a bunch of really nice cases and batteries
1:05:58and stuff that were made for it forever ago,
1:05:59but they don't cost anything anymore.
1:06:01Because like, you know, you look at,
1:06:03try to buy accessories for today's iPhone or iPad,
1:06:07and they're, you know, 50 bucks.
1:06:09Try to buy them for the one that's two years old,
1:06:11and they're like a dollar on Amazon.
1:06:13Like everything costs nothing,
1:06:14'cause everyone's trying to clear them out,
1:06:16'cause these phones are no longer being sold in the US,
1:06:18or no longer popular.
1:06:20Now here's a brand new phone where you can get a ton
1:06:23of effectively free accessories for it.
1:06:27So again, adding to the value aspect, it's a great value.
1:06:31- Yeah, I'm really impressed with this.
1:06:32I think this was a great, this is a great job.
1:06:35I think, like Jon said, the places where they,
1:06:38you know, skimped, they did it the right spots,
1:06:41the spots you would expect.
1:06:42I don't think I'm gonna switch back
1:06:43because I like the screen real estate enough
1:06:46on the slightly larger phone
1:06:48that I think I'm gonna stick with it.
1:06:51I also really do like 3D Touch a lot.
1:06:53I might be the only one, but I really use,
1:06:55I use it quite a lot. - I think you are.
1:06:56I use it quite a lot in Tweetbot.
1:06:58I don't use the shortcuts very often from Springboard,
1:07:02but I use 3D Touch a ton in Tweetbot, if nowhere else.
1:07:06And in that sense, I would miss 3D Touch a lot.
1:07:09This does, the SE does get live photos,
1:07:11which are also important to me now.
1:07:13So it's a tough call, 'cause God, do I love this design.
1:07:17I agree with you, Marco.
1:07:18But I think I would probably stick with the,
1:07:22what is it, 4.7-inch film, whatever the success size is.
1:07:25I'll probably stick with that in the future, but I would not begrudge anyone who decided
1:07:29that this was the phone for them.
1:07:31This feels so good!
1:07:33The cheaper front-facing camera, too.
1:07:34The 6S 5 megapixel front-facing camera, f/2.2 aperture, and this one has a 1.2 megapixel
1:07:40f/2.4 aperture.
1:07:42So yeah, they skimped and all the areas they skimped are all exactly the areas that I would
1:07:47have picked, because again, if you're going to skip on the camera, skip on the front one,
1:07:50because nobody cares.
1:07:52Don't skip on the back one.
1:07:53So the expectation is that this will sell a lot better than the 5C did because it's
1:07:58just such a much better phone than the 5C that people won't be disappointed or embarrassed
1:08:03to buy it or own it.
1:08:05That it is a fully-fledged iPhone.
1:08:08That's a good reason they changed the name.
1:08:10Like I don't know, they didn't say what the SE stood for.
1:08:14I think they did say special edition.
1:08:15I'm pretty sure.
1:08:16Anyway, the best joke explanation I heard is that it stands for "sorry everyone."
1:08:22[LAUGHTER]
1:08:24For taking away the 4-inch phone and then
1:08:26for resurrecting it with the 5C, which
1:08:27was an awesome-looking product in every way
1:08:29except for the stuff that was inside it.
1:08:30It was slow and old and creaky and small.
1:08:34I forget what the storage limits on the 5C were,
1:08:36but they were even worse.
1:08:37Well, they didn't take away the 5S.
1:08:39They took away the 5.
1:08:40Yeah, I know.
1:08:43This is the equivalent of, hey, we're
1:08:45going to make a cheap bottom-end phone for people,
1:08:48and we'll make it fun.
1:08:49And I think the 5C was a great product,
1:08:50that it was, you know, it was not, it was not as good. It didn't have the same innards as, they didn't have any
1:08:55small phone that had the same innards as the flagship phone. Like, their small phone had worse innards than their flagship phone. This,
1:09:01I mean, it's almost shocking that like six months after the 6s comes out, or whatever, is it six months? Something like that,
1:09:06that there is a new small phone that is just as fast as the flagship phone in most of the ways that matter to people,
1:09:13which is totally weird and has not happened. It's not like a two-year-old phone. It's not like, "Oh, we just moved the innards down,
1:09:17we're still selling the old models."
1:09:20So, yeah, I like this trend, and I think this is a good phone, and I would totally recommend
1:09:26that if people want a small phone that they get this, I wouldn't hesitate at all.
1:09:29- Yeah, although the only thing is, I do think for people like us who are happy with the
1:09:346, or at least have been happy until now with the 6 size, I think it's wise to at least
1:09:39wait until we see the 7 before the, "Oh, I'm gonna jump back right now."
1:09:44So I personally, I am incredibly tempted
1:09:47by both sizes of iPhone I don't have.
1:09:50(laughs)
1:09:51- Of course.
1:09:52- I'm incredibly tempted by this nice, awesome small one
1:09:54'cause I feel this 5S, it just looks and feels amazing
1:09:57and it's so easy to hold and use.
1:09:59And I love the sleep button on top.
1:10:00Still, now 18 months into owning the six line of phones,
1:10:06half my screenshots contain the volume overlay
1:10:11and the other half of them didn't happen
1:10:13because I accidentally put the phone to sleep.
1:10:15- So I'm getting worse at the screenshot gesture.
1:10:18I don't understand how this is possible,
1:10:19but somehow I'm getting worse at it.
1:10:21- Me too.
1:10:21- Like I used to have a much higher hit rate
1:10:23of being successfully able to take screenshots.
1:10:26Yeah, I think most people are not on the cadence
1:10:28that you just, like people don't know,
1:10:29like, oh, the seven is coming.
1:10:31They just wander into an Apple store
1:10:33when their contract is up or whatever,
1:10:35and they get whatever phone is for sale then.
1:10:37And so I think it's fine.
1:10:38Like it is weird from our perspective,
1:10:40like if you're one of those people
1:10:42who lives and dies by the cycle of Apple releasing new phones and always gets the latest one
1:10:47when it comes out.
1:10:48It's like, this six-month thing is putting me in a weird position, because even if I
1:10:52wanted this phone, would I buy it now?
1:10:53Because wouldn't I just want to, like, mark and say, wait until I see what the 7 is like
1:10:56and what's going to happen then?
1:10:58But regular people just go into the store, and it's so much better for them to go in
1:11:01and to see this lineup of phones.
1:11:03And there really is something for everybody now, except for the people who want a really
1:11:07big battery and a really small phone.
1:11:09But you know, can't have everything.
1:11:11Yeah, I feel bad. There's got to be a lot of people like me. So when Erin's on the S
1:11:17cycle, she doesn't want to have a phone every year. And when it was time for her to get
1:11:23a 6S, I said to her basically, "Look, you can keep your old phone, which is getting
1:11:27a little bit long in the tooth now, or you can just understand that Apple will never
1:11:30release a new 4-inch phone and just get on board now." So, okay, fine. And so she got
1:11:35on board with the 6S. And I think, by and large, she likes it. But then fast forward
1:11:38a few months and sure enough there's Apple's brand new 4-inch phone in rose gold no less
1:11:42and I feel terrible for that so sorry Aaron.
1:11:46My bad.
1:11:47All right iPad Pro 9.7 inch.
1:11:50Is that what it's called?
1:11:52Something like that.
1:11:54I don't even know.
1:11:55I think that's what Apple calls it on their site.
1:11:56The new iPad Pro.
1:11:59Yep.
1:12:01Not a lot of surprises here overall.
1:12:05Definitely some surprises, but looks good.
1:12:08I'm not a big iPad kind of guy.
1:12:11I like my Mini.
1:12:12I love my Mini, in fact.
1:12:13But it's a little bit tempting even for me to go big, especially because from everything
1:12:18I've understood, this thing is tiny.
1:12:23It's thin, it's very light, they said under a pound, right?
1:12:26I mean, it's got to be super portable.
1:12:28Well, it's exactly the same physical dimensions and weight as the Air 2 within like a .001,
1:12:34something like that.
1:12:35It is effectively identical to the Air 2 in size and weight.
1:12:39I was so excited about this iPad during the announcement because if you watch the event,
1:12:44everything they say about it is like, "Yes!
1:12:46Yes that!
1:12:47Yes!"
1:12:48Like just everything, you know, because it's what we all talked about, basically a shrunken
1:12:53down version of the iPad Pro, exactly as the name implies, with all the features of the
1:12:58the iPad Pro and on top of that it does some things better than the iPad Pro which of course
1:13:02are the things that highlight in the keynote with the whole true tone display and the well
1:13:08that they talked about the USB 3 speed thing but we'll get to that in a second and that
1:13:13it's small and thin and it uses the stylus got a smart connector it's got a keyboard
1:13:16cover that fits the thing you know all the whole nine yards and it's only after the keynote
1:13:21did I find out all the things that kind of broke my heart I feel like this this iPad
1:13:27Pro is my Fredo.
1:13:28I mean, we all know they're not big.
1:13:33It's not that big of a deal.
1:13:34The killer one for me is I really wanted this
1:13:37to have four gigs of RAM.
1:13:38It's got Pro in the name for crying out loud.
1:13:40I know it probably doesn't need four gigs of RAM
1:13:42maybe 'cause the screen is smaller or whatever,
1:13:44but it's a Pro, like it does multitasking.
1:13:49I would love it if it had four gigs of RAM.
1:13:51That is the one that really, really broke my heart.
1:13:55The other stuff, only getting USB 2 speeds,
1:13:58I don't know if that's just for the camera adapter
1:14:00or if it's just, you know,
1:14:01for everything having to do with that lighting port.
1:14:03I don't know the answer to that,
1:14:04but definitely the new camera adapter thing says
1:14:08the iPad Pro, the big iPad Pro gets USB 3 speeds
1:14:11and the little one gets USB 2 speeds.
1:14:12Not that I use the camera connector,
1:14:14it's just that like, I want,
1:14:16I want, if you get this device with this much storage,
1:14:18maybe you say you get the 128 gig model,
1:14:20I would like it to have USB 3 speeds through that
1:14:22because I like the weird tech nerd that I am,
1:14:26still doing encrypted back into my Mac
1:14:28and it takes for frigging ever to copy everything
1:14:30at USB two speeds from like a 128 gig thing.
1:14:34But yeah, the RAM, the RAM compliment is the one
1:14:39that is the most disappointing
1:14:41and everything else is minor after that.
1:14:43But I guess you would expect that
1:14:45'cause like shouldn't the bigger one be more powerful
1:14:47or whatever, I just had this vision in my mind
1:14:49that this would be exactly like the big iPad Pro,
1:14:52better in a couple of ways and worse in none,
1:14:55and that is not exactly the case.
1:14:57- Overall, I think it's a solid release,
1:15:00and I think it's going to really, really help
1:15:03the iPad lineup in general as much as any release can.
1:15:08Again, it's not going to save the iPad
1:15:10if the iPad sales are going to continue to stagnate.
1:15:14This release is not going to meaningfully change that,
1:15:17but for the people who are buying iPads,
1:15:20this is an awesome iPad.
1:15:22This is a great, I think the only thing about this product
1:15:24that's weird is that it was released afterwards.
1:15:27Like, if you imagine the process flipped
1:15:30and if you imagine them either the 9.7 and the 12.9
1:15:33released at the same time or in the opposite order,
1:15:36I think it makes a lot more sense.
1:15:39Right now there's a bunch of weird stuff
1:15:40around the way they did this, you know,
1:15:41weird perceptions like, wait, this kinda sucks
1:15:43if I just bought the 12 inch and now I don't have
1:15:46the weird color display or whatever and you can,
1:15:49you can excuse some of it with like,
1:15:50well, you know, the camera is better on the small one
1:15:53'cause you're taking it around,
1:15:55you don't really need a better camera on the big one.
1:15:57You can excuse a lot of it.
1:15:59The simple fact is the staggering of these things
1:16:01and the difference between them are kind of odd,
1:16:03but it's fine, doesn't really matter.
1:16:05And we'll all forget about it in a year.
1:16:08So ultimately, a very solid release, I think, very solid.
1:16:13And I think if anyone is a heavy iPad user,
1:16:18this is definitely worth looking at.
1:16:20and I'm really glad they're making this,
1:16:21even though I probably won't use one,
1:16:24but very solid release, I think.
1:16:27- Yeah, I largely agree with you.
1:16:29It's like I said earlier,
1:16:31it's enough that it's tempting me to go back
1:16:32to the mid-size iPad from my Mini.
1:16:37I have a question for the two of you guys, though.
1:16:40What's the flagship iPad?
1:16:43And I'm genuinely asking, because my immediate answer,
1:16:46if I were to ask myself that, is the big iPad Pro,
1:16:49I almost said the iPad Pro.
1:16:50is the bigger iPad Pro,
1:16:52but it doesn't have some really nice features
1:16:54like the True Tone display.
1:16:55And so I wonder what is the flagship iPad these days?
1:17:00- Yeah, I think that's just because of the cadence
1:17:03that Marco mentioned, the weird cadence that like,
1:17:06they seem like they could have been released together,
1:17:07but wouldn't it be weird that the small one
1:17:09has the color sensors on it and the big one doesn't?
1:17:12And it's almost like they got out of sync at some point
1:17:16and you know, whatever.
1:17:17So I think because of the cadence, the flagship one has to be the latest released one, because
1:17:27it has more better stuff, and you can excuse the smaller RAM and stuff because, oh, this
1:17:31is the smaller model, but you would imagine that when the new big one comes out, it will
1:17:36have all the same features as the other one, and then it will be the flagship.
1:17:39I mean, what's the flagship Mac?
1:17:41The 5K iMac, because it's faster in some games than the Pro, the D700.
1:17:47What's going on Apple?
1:17:48- What's the flagship laptop?
1:17:50I would argue it's the MacBook One.
1:17:52- Yeah, I don't know.
1:17:54It depends on what you know what flagship means.
1:17:56I mean, we have weird definitions of it.
1:17:57It used to be the old days it was the fastest computer,
1:17:59but that really hasn't been true in a long time.
1:18:02- In the context of what we're saying,
1:18:03I would argue that it's basically like
1:18:05the high profile one that people lust over
1:18:08that is like the defining one that kind of defines
1:18:10the image of the whole range, right?
1:18:12And to me, on the iPad, that's the Air,
1:18:16or now the pro mini, whatever we call it.
1:18:19And in the Max, I'd say it's the MacBook One.
1:18:22- I don't know, like I can't really tell on the iPad.
1:18:24It depends on if the iPad makes this transition
1:18:26into a more capable platform,
1:18:29because if you stop thinking of an iPad
1:18:32as a bigger version of the phone
1:18:34and start thinking of it as,
1:18:35it's my more portable laptop replacement,
1:18:37then the big pro becomes the flagship
1:18:39because it is better able to replace laptops
1:18:41than the other ones.
1:18:42But it really, really depends.
1:18:43It's hard to tell in this period.
1:18:45And I don't think the weird differences in features like,
1:18:48'cause that's basically what it comes down to is
1:18:50what hardware does the big one have
1:18:52and the small one doesn't.
1:18:53It has the same quality screen,
1:18:55but it doesn't have the light sensors.
1:18:56So it can't have the True Tone display.
1:18:58Like that's not gonna come in a software update.
1:19:00It just doesn't have the sensors for it,
1:19:01but it does have more RAM.
1:19:04I don't know.
1:19:05I don't at least sleep thinking about it.
1:19:06And a couple of people were asking in the chat room
1:19:07if I'm gonna get this laptop.
1:19:09I have an iPad 3.
1:19:11I waited a really long time to get that
1:19:13because I wanted a retina iPad
1:19:15and I got a Retina iPad and I'm still using it.
1:19:17At this point, it's pretty much at the end of its life,
1:19:19not because there's anything wrong with it.
1:19:21It still looks very new and it's in good condition.
1:19:24It only has a small dent in the corner
1:19:25from when I put down my backpack too hard at WFDC
1:19:28three years ago or whatever.
1:19:30It has served me very well.
1:19:31I still use it every day.
1:19:32This new iPad Pro 9.7 inch does almost,
1:19:38it's almost exactly what I wanted.
1:19:39Like the reason it broke my heart
1:19:41because it was so close to being like everything
1:19:42that I could have asked for and more.
1:19:44Instead, it's almost everything that I could have asked for.
1:19:47It is so much better than the one I have now.
1:19:48I'm definitely getting one, 100%.
1:19:51I'm glad they come in all sorts of different colors.
1:19:52I'm sad only one of them has a black front.
1:19:54And the only reason I'm sad,
1:19:56not because I don't dislike the color of the back,
1:19:58but because I'm always afraid that someday
1:19:59there'll be none of them with a black front
1:20:01and then I'll be really sad.
1:20:02So anyway, I am getting this one and I will enjoy it.
1:20:06And hopefully it will last me at least as long
1:20:08as my iPad 3 lasted me.
1:20:12- A couple other very, very quick thoughts.
1:20:14First of all, the camera adapter,
1:20:16there was the call out for podcasters that it's now,
1:20:19you can power it with one of the bricks, which is exciting.
1:20:22Jason Snell wrote a post about that earlier today,
1:20:26which we'll link to in the show notes.
1:20:27- And that's significant though,
1:20:29because ever since the very first iPad
1:20:33that had the camera connection kit,
1:20:34and then later on there's lightning version of it
1:20:36when they switched to lightning,
1:20:37there was always this $30 adapter that you could get
1:20:40that would let you plug in a USB device to an iOS device.
1:20:45And this has always been, you know,
1:20:47it was officially for cameras,
1:20:48and it would officially work with only iPads.
1:20:51However, this for years has worked for other things,
1:20:55and it was always kind of undocumented,
1:20:57and you were never really sure, like,
1:21:00does Apple, is this gonna be supported in the future?
1:21:02Is this going to work?
1:21:04And things like sound equipment was a big one.
1:21:07Also, like, network, like, USB network interface
1:21:09and stuff like that, these things that USB devices
1:21:13that you would think wouldn't work with iOS devices
1:21:16that often just did through standard USB profiles
1:21:19and everything through this port.
1:21:21But there were always two major problems with this.
1:21:23Number one was that there was not enough power on the port
1:21:26to power a device that had high power needs,
1:21:29which does include a lot of USB devices.
1:21:31So you could do a hack where you could buy a powered hub
1:21:35and plug the upstream into this adapter for the iPad
1:21:37and have the powered hub power the other devices.
1:21:40So then that was kind of an issue.
1:21:42And then the second issue was always that
1:21:44while you were using this adapter,
1:21:47your iOS device it was plugged into
1:21:49itself could not be charged or charging.
1:21:51So you could only use this adapter
1:21:53effectively on battery power.
1:21:55So you couldn't have something like kind of
1:21:56permanently installed like at a station
1:21:58or something like that.
1:21:59So there were always these two problems.
1:22:02This new adapter they're selling now for 40 bucks
1:22:06is the exact same adapter, but has a lightning port inbound next to the USB port. So you
1:22:13can plug in an iPad class power brick into that and not only charge the iOS device that
1:22:20this adapter is plugged into and keep it charged, but then also power a USB device that needs
1:22:25a decent amount of power like an audio interface. So they've solved both of these problems
1:22:28with that one stupid little port with this, and even bigger, Phil Schiller called out
1:22:35on stage this kind of music. He said for podcasters, he even mentioned network devices, like things
1:22:41that again, we thought all these years, like the handful of people who were playing with
1:22:46this thing, we thought that this was like this unsupported, undocumented thing that
1:22:51was going to break at any time, and now here's Phil Schiller on stage advertising this as
1:22:56functionality and releasing this awesome new adapter that makes it a lot better than it
1:23:00was before.
1:23:01So this allows things like iOS devices to have audio interfaces in real production use
1:23:06here where you can have everything plugged in and have everything be reliable and have
1:23:10everything be fully powered.
1:23:11You can do things like a network adapter and have Ethernet on an iOS device for the first
1:23:18time ever besides the Apple TV.
1:23:21All this stuff that was really just difficult or tricky
1:23:24or impossible to do before or would suck in other ways,
1:23:27now with this one adapter, now sucks a lot less,
1:23:30and now it opens up new doors for iOS devices.
1:23:33And that I think is pretty big.
1:23:36- Yeah, I completely agree.
1:23:37I'm really pleased with this event as a whole, actually.
1:23:41I mean, there's some things that bum me out.
1:23:42I'm sad there's no new Macs.
1:23:45I understand your sadness about the watch,
1:23:47even though I'm not entirely sad about it.
1:23:50this iPhone SE, which someone in the chat earlier said,
1:23:53it stands for Sorry, Aaron,
1:23:55which I thought was pretty funny.
1:23:56(laughing)
1:23:57That also, I mean, it makes me happy
1:24:00in the grand scheme of things,
1:24:01but it's making me second guess my choices.
1:24:04But all in all, I thought this was a really good event.
1:24:10I didn't leave the event thinking,
1:24:11"Oh my God, I wanna buy everything,"
1:24:13like I often do at Apple events,
1:24:15but I rewatched it earlier tonight,
1:24:17and in talking with you guys about it
1:24:19and thinking more about it,
1:24:20I think it was a really solid event.
1:24:21So, Jon, thumbs up, thumbs down overall.
1:24:24- I thought it was, I mean, it was exactly the scale event
1:24:26you expect from Town Hall,
1:24:27and despite the RAM breaking my heart,
1:24:30I am really happy with that new iPad.
1:24:31I expect to be really happy with it as a product.
1:24:33I'm not so happy about paying a bajillion dollars
1:24:36for a front and back case for it,
1:24:38which I would remind people who are listening to this,
1:24:42you don't have to buy Apple cases.
1:24:44Lots of people are going to sell cases for the iPad.
1:24:46I know it's hard to believe,
1:24:47but you do not have to pay Apple's prices for their cases.
1:24:50Lots of people will sell you much cheaper cases, but if you are a sucker/stickler like
1:24:56me, I'm going to end up buying the Apple ones, because whatever.
1:24:59But anyway, you don't have to, but I will.
1:25:01And I might even buy that stupid keyboard too, because whatever.
1:25:03Anyway, I buy an iPad like once every three years, so I save my pennies and that's what
1:25:08I'm going to do.
1:25:09But you, listener out there, you don't have to buy all those cases, because it's like
1:25:12$70 for the current case and $60 for the back, and you're adding so much money to the cost.
1:25:17Anyway, and I'm probably going to get the 128GB model just because I fill every iOS
1:25:21device I have.
1:25:22I should probably get the 256 if I was smart, but I don't know if I can stomach that price
1:25:25increase.
1:25:26Well, do you fill iPads, though?
1:25:27Because a lot of times people will fill an iPhone because they'll load a whole bunch
1:25:30of music onto it, but an iPad not necessarily.
1:25:32No, I fill it.
1:25:33I fill it with video, and they always get filled up.
1:25:38Even just photos.
1:25:39At this point, I really should buy the 256.
1:25:41I don't know if I can handle paying $1200 all in for whatever this iPad.
1:25:45But anyway, it's going to be awesome.
1:25:46I'm gonna love it and that alone,
1:25:48and even though I'm not going to buy the iPhone SE,
1:25:51I think it's really good and so this was a fitting end
1:25:54to the town hall room venue for Apple events.
1:25:58- All right, thanks to our three sponsors this week,
1:26:02Harry's, Igloo, and Squarespace,
1:26:04and we will see you next week.
1:26:06(upbeat music)
1:26:08♪ Now the show is over ♪
1:26:10♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪
1:26:13♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
1:26:16Oh it was accidental.
1:26:18John didn't do any research.
1:26:21Marco and Casey wouldn't let him.
1:26:24Cause it was accidental.
1:26:26It was accidental.
1:26:29And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM.
1:26:34And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them.
1:26:39@CASEYLISS, so that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,
1:26:48Auntie Marco Arment, S-I-R-A-C, USA, Syracuse.
1:26:55It's accidental.
1:26:58They didn't mean to.
1:27:01Accidental.
1:27:03Tech podcast so long.
1:27:08I forgot to mention something in the iPad section very quickly.
1:27:12Embedded Apple SIM.
1:27:13Weird, right?
1:27:14Like, not bad weird.
1:27:15Not bad weird.
1:27:16It's good weird, but it's weird.
1:27:17Why is it weird?
1:27:18Well, maybe weird is the right way to describe it.
1:27:21Maybe it's not the SIM that's weird, but the way the American carriers are treating
1:27:24it is...
1:27:25Well, carriers are going to be carriers or whatever that thing is.
1:27:29Yeah, it's as weird as it always is, really, with how they lock it and everything.
1:27:34But Apple is helping.
1:27:35Apple is acknowledging, "Look, carriers are going to be annoying, but we're going to
1:27:38to help you out here by not hogging the one SIM slot
1:27:41on this device with our thing.
1:27:42We're just gonna build our thing in,
1:27:44and if carriers are sane, everything's great,
1:27:46but we know they're not gonna be.
1:27:47So our SIM is there for when you need it,
1:27:50and for those annoying carriers,
1:27:51you can swap SIMs and do all this other crap.
1:27:53- Right, but except, was it Verizon where if you--
1:27:56- AT&T.
1:27:57- Well, wasn't one of them where if you activated
1:28:00with them, it would actually lock the Apple SIM also?
1:28:03- I'm almost sure that's AT&T.
1:28:05- Yeah, but you can always get that stuff unlocked.
1:28:07There is there is a whole bunch of will link to a panzerinos article and tech crunch
1:28:11Explaining all the different ins and outs like Apple has done everything it could to make this less slightly less annoying for you
1:28:16And as you know what's going on with it you you will have the most options possible
1:28:20I think even the ones where they lock it doesn't every carry have to unlock it if you ask for at this point, so
1:28:25It's just more of a hassle, but but at least they're not hogging a slot
1:28:29So like again if you and I think you even do like you could have I assume you can have like t-mobile or something using
1:28:34Apple SIM, but then also have a Verizon SIM for when you travel and stick that one in.
1:28:38That's exactly what I do with my iPad Mini, which I know is not using an embedded Apple
1:28:42SIM, but the physical Apple SIM that I have for it, I typically have connected to T-Mobile,
1:28:48although I can swap between a couple with that. And then I have a Verizon physical SIM
1:28:53that I'll pop in if I'm in one of the many places that does not have T-Mobile coverage.
1:28:58So they're doing the best they can, and I like it, and it'll be great when the entire
1:29:02are, at least in the US world, standardized on the built-in Apple Sim and we don't have
1:29:06to deal with that anymore, but who knows when the hell that'll happen.
1:29:10Yeah, seriously. Any other thoughts that we didn't cover during the main part of the show?
1:29:14There was that kind of dig from Schiller, which is a little weird.
1:29:17Yeah, the people using a five-year-old PC is like, I understand what he's getting at,
1:29:22but that was badly considered for multiple reasons. First, it's like kind of like a,
1:29:27you know, some people can't afford to buy a new PC all the time, so you're taking a
1:29:30dig at the, you know, people who have less money than you and that's the type of thing
1:29:34where it's just, he's maybe not even thinking as, as some, you know, as someone like the
1:29:39rest of us who, you know, can buy hardware whenever they want to buy hardware, it's sometimes
1:29:44easy to forget that that's not something that everybody can do. And it's insensitive to
1:29:49say, Oh, you're using a let's let's all laugh the people using five year old computers.
1:29:52Of course, I'm sitting here next to like an eight year old computer. But anyway, yeah,
1:29:55I could have bought a new one if I wanted to. So it's insensitive in that way. And it's
1:30:00It's kind of, even ignoring that entirely, Apple, as we just pointed out, sells computers
1:30:06with essentially multi-year old internals in them because they don't update them.
1:30:09So it's highlighting something that Apple should be embarrassed about, the fact that
1:30:12they will sell you a Mac menu with these ancient innards and the fact that they haven't updated
1:30:16laptops at this particular event and the fact that the Mac Pro's insides have skipped a
1:30:19generation like, those are all things that Apple should not be drawing attention to and
1:30:23shouldn't, you know.
1:30:24So that was probably not a good idea.
1:30:26line, I think if he could take it back he probably would.
1:30:31- Well also positioning the iPad as like the inevitable
1:30:36replacement for all the people with Windows PCs,
1:30:38or the best replacement for all the people with
1:30:39Windows PCs, I think is really optimistic,
1:30:43for a number of reasons, you know, price being a big one.
1:30:46But also just like, iOS is not Windows and is not Mac OS.
1:30:51And there are, you know, as we've discussed at length,
1:30:53there's a lot of things that are great in iOS,
1:30:55and a lot of people can get where they're working on iOS.
1:30:57However, you can't do a lot of things on iOS
1:31:01that you can do on PCs and Macs,
1:31:04and a lot of people need to do those things,
1:31:06especially for their jobs that are using these old PCs.
1:31:09- If you have a five-year-old Windows machine,
1:31:12aren't you going to probably be more likely
1:31:14to have your needs served by an iPad than not?
1:31:17Like, I get what they're getting at.
1:31:18- No, not necessarily.
1:31:19It depends on what your needs are.
1:31:20If your needs are like checking email and browsing the web,
1:31:24sure, you're gonna be better off.
1:31:26- That's most people's things,
1:31:27and video conferencing, and sending people instant messages,
1:31:30and the iPad does fulfill all the computing needs
1:31:34for a lot of people.
1:31:35- Well, but once you get into shuffling files
1:31:37back and forth, and once you get into files
1:31:41and dealing with files, which a lot of people do,
1:31:43it starts getting a little bit dicey on iOS,
1:31:45where things start being like,
1:31:46well, you can do that, but it's awkward,
1:31:49or you have to know these power user tricks,
1:31:51or things like that.
1:31:52And of course there's a lot of limitations
1:31:56and a lot of changes to the way the system works
1:31:58and what it does and doesn't do.
1:32:00And you'd be surprised in the real world
1:32:03like how many people need like one of those weird hacks
1:32:07that you can't do on iOS.
1:32:09Or they need one app that Apple would never approve
1:32:12for the app store, things like Call Recorder.
1:32:14Like a lot of people need like one or two of those things
1:32:18and that's enough of a deal killer
1:32:19that they just can't do their work on iOS.
1:32:22or it's incredibly clunky for them to do their work on iOS.
1:32:26- Yeah, but if you're gonna pitch the iPad
1:32:28as a PC replacement, the people you wanna pitch it to
1:32:31are the least demanding users,
1:32:33and the least demanding users are going to have
1:32:35the oldest computers, and they're also not gonna have Macs
1:32:37because if they were demanding,
1:32:38they would be annoyed by their cruddy Windows PC, right?
1:32:40So like, you know, in the Apple frames,
1:32:43that is like, this is our audience.
1:32:45If you don't really care enough about computers
1:32:47to buy a new one very frequently,
1:32:49and if you don't even use a Mac
1:32:51'cause you don't see any big difference
1:32:52and it just seems like, well, a PC is a PC.
1:32:54You are the type of person who we think is most likely to,
1:32:58if we gave you an iPad, after a little while,
1:33:00even if it doesn't do everything
1:33:01that your five-year-old PC did, to be like,
1:33:04yeah, but this is kind of nicer.
1:33:05Like I have less stuff to worry about,
1:33:06don't have to worry about viruses.
1:33:08It's nice that I can carry it around with me.
1:33:10So they're making the pitch that they can make.
1:33:13It doesn't mean that it is truly the PC replacements
1:33:16they were, you know,
1:33:17but obviously that's the angle they're going for
1:33:20and they are to their credit finally at least modifying
1:33:24both the hardware and software to try to fulfill that goal.
1:33:28And so this is like stage 1.1,
1:33:30the iPad Pro was the big first step
1:33:32and the iOS with the split screen and everything.
1:33:35And then 1.1 is take some of that technology
1:33:37and move it down so now you've got a stylus
1:33:39and more power and the four speakers and everything like.
1:33:43Is the new iPad, the iPad Air 3 essentially,
1:33:46is a much more compelling PC replacement tablet
1:33:51than even just the Air 2 was,
1:33:53even if only because of the possibility of the stylus,
1:33:58ignoring everything else.
1:34:00Just because, I mean, I know Apple doesn't want
1:34:01to talk about this, and it's maybe why they didn't
1:34:03do all the navigation stuff,
1:34:04but the stylus kind of does make it possible
1:34:07to have smaller touch targets on devices
1:34:10that support a pencil.
1:34:11I know Apple doesn't want to talk about it,
1:34:12but it's there, you know?
1:34:14And it opens the door to, for developers,
1:34:17because there's no, I don't think App Review
1:34:19is gonna reject you if you don't have a 44 point high
1:34:21touch, I mean, I know that because there's tons
1:34:23of iOS apps out there, right?
1:34:24So these are baby steps in that direction.
1:34:28So I can't understand the pitch they were making,
1:34:30but it wasn't that great.
1:34:31I think the only other point that I wanted to make
1:34:33about the thing was this,
1:34:34but the presentation was this tweet by,
1:34:36I think it was a tweet by Zach Cichy,
1:34:39I think his last name is,
1:34:40that the entry level cost to Apple computing ecosystem
1:34:44is the lowest it's ever been.
1:34:46You can get into a flagship, really good, well-performing,
1:34:50not cruddy three-year-old model iPhone for 400 bucks.
1:34:53You can get into an iPad for 270.
1:34:55You can get a Mac mini, which is cruddy and old,
1:34:57for 500 bucks, and you don't want that one
1:34:59'cause it's really bad.
1:35:00And you can get a MacBook Air for 900 bucks.
1:35:03So these are all three-digit prices
1:35:05at spanning a pretty big range from mid-200s to 900 bucks.
1:35:10And historically speaking,
1:35:12I think it's probably never been cheaper
1:35:14to get into an Apple product.
1:35:16Now, the complaint we always have is,
1:35:18would you recommend someone you actually cared about
1:35:20buy one of these cheapest models?
1:35:21In the case of the iPhone, sure, yeah.
1:35:25I mean, even with the 16 gigs,
1:35:26you're like, as long as you're sure
1:35:27that that's gonna be okay,
1:35:28I mean, I don't know, maybe I wouldn't be able
1:35:31to recommend a 16 gig to someone I really cared about,
1:35:33but if they could convince me
1:35:34that they're not gonna fill 16 gigs, sure.
1:35:37And the iPad, which one is 270?
1:35:40Is that the, do they still sell the,
1:35:43yeah, which Mini though?
1:35:44What are the insides, the A7?
1:35:46- Oh, I see your point.
1:35:47I'm not sure, to be honest with you.
1:35:49I see your point now.
1:35:50- Yeah, I don't know if I could recommend that iPad.
1:35:51I definitely can't recommend the Mini.
1:35:53The Air, if you wanna get the cheapest Mac,
1:35:56it's not a bad Mac, right?
1:35:57That's the 13-inch Air.
1:35:58- Wait a minute.
1:36:00Is it the 13 or the 11?
1:36:02And also, is it four gigs of RAM in that one?
1:36:04And like no storage, right?
1:36:06- Yeah.
1:36:07Yeah, so that's always Apple's difficulty,
1:36:09but it does seem that Apple is trying to lower,
1:36:14maybe it's just the on-ramp they're trying to lower,
1:36:19get you into the store, get you to consider the products
1:36:21and then sell you the better one for slightly better prices.
1:36:24But I think the iPhone SE is, of course,
1:36:26is the most recent one of these products
1:36:27that we all listed here.
1:36:29And the iPhone SE definitely has far fewer compromises
1:36:32than all the other ones that we listed.
1:36:33So if only every other product line they have
1:36:36could have a lowest end model that is as admirable
1:36:39and sort of solid as the iPhone line does.
1:36:42And I hope they do do that eventually
1:36:44with all their other models.
1:36:44And maybe they will once they ditch the MacBook Air
1:36:46and they only have the old Retina,
1:36:49MacBook One, MacBook Pro line.
1:36:50Those will all be pretty solid models
1:36:52once you get the second generation MacBook One in there.
1:36:54And the Mac Mini, I don't know.
1:36:57(beep)