153: Larger, Less Portable Pastures


00:00:00   Oh, you're about to get a bunch of snow? You know, we're due for like 30 inches.

00:00:03   Consider that this entire area shuts down over about six. As we record this Wednesday evening,

00:00:09   the snow isn't supposed to start until Friday. And on Facebook, I saw four or five different

00:00:14   people show images of the grocery store bread aisle, which is eviscerated. The bacon aisle,

00:00:21   because #thesouth, is gutted. It's just apparently a disaster out there. And there's not been a flake

00:00:28   on the ground as far as I'm aware.

00:00:30   - Yeah, I mean, we're supposed to get like the tail end

00:00:32   of what's hitting you, so we're supposed to get

00:00:35   about a foot maybe, like about a day later.

00:00:37   - Which for you guys is like a dusting.

00:00:38   - Yeah, I mean, that's heavy snowfall,

00:00:41   but it's not unusual.

00:00:42   That happens at least once or twice every winter,

00:00:45   and it's fine.

00:00:46   However, I tried to buy rock salt today.

00:00:49   (laughs)

00:00:50   And there was one kind left.

00:00:53   It was like the most expensive kind, of course,

00:00:55   and it was like the heavy commercial pro blend

00:00:58   or whatever.

00:00:59   >> What is it, like sea salt?

00:01:00   Like, a special artisanal?

00:01:01   Well, if you don't use it all, you can sprinkle it all over your, you know, seared salmon

00:01:06   or whatever.

00:01:08   >> Yeah, the entire region up here is panicking for snow that we get every year, so I can't

00:01:15   even imagine what you guys are going through.

00:01:17   >> People underestimate the amount of food in their house.

00:01:20   Like the idea is that, you know, the roads will be impassable, which, you know, does

00:01:23   that really ever happen?

00:01:24   And maybe by case it will.

00:01:25   And then we will starve to death in our home because we will not have enough food.

00:01:29   Never mind that it would take a really long time for most people to starve to death without

00:01:32   any food.

00:01:33   And you don't have to worry about water because you can always melt snow.

00:01:35   We learned so many things we learned from the long dark.

00:01:39   And so like they run to the store and we got to buy all the food because what if we can't

00:01:42   get to the grocery store for like two days?

00:01:46   People don't realize how long can you live just off the food in your house?

00:01:49   Well, see, but that's you guys.

00:01:50   You guys are prepared for snow.

00:01:52   Whereas for us, I guarantee if we get...

00:01:54   could live off the food in your house for like six months.

00:01:58   No way. Yes. I mean, if you planned well, probably.

00:02:02   If I planned well. You don't realize how many calories are in

00:02:05   things. Like just a box of granola bars added up, like 100 calories per bar. Like how many

00:02:10   calories do you think you need per day? I'm not saying it would be pleasant. I'm just

00:02:13   saying people are not in imminent danger. Never mind that the house next to you has

00:02:17   people with food and the house next to them has people with food. We're in civilization

00:02:20   here people. You're not going to starve to death in your home. You'll be fine. But yeah,

00:02:24   does go to the stores. I mean a lot of it is just not so much that you're gonna

00:02:28   starve to death but let me just get in that one last grocery run before it is

00:02:33   annoying to drive to the grocery store not that the roads will be impassable

00:02:36   but it will be more annoying and you know there will be problems getting in

00:02:40   another driveway and maybe it'll take a while to shovel you know and so it's

00:02:43   like oh let me just do my grocery right now and everybody it's like a what do

00:02:46   you call it a barrier fence you're gonna help me out here Marco why it's a fence

00:02:52   is a kind of barrier, that is true.

00:02:53   - Yeah, the Mutex thing where everyone stacks up on the--

00:02:56   - Oh yeah. - Yeah, anyway.

00:02:57   - Yeah, memory barrier, yeah.

00:02:58   - Yeah, it just causes everyone to end up

00:03:00   going at the same time.

00:03:01   It looks like people are panicking, really,

00:03:03   it is just taking the normally more random distribution

00:03:06   of their supermarket trips

00:03:07   and putting them all on the same day.

00:03:09   So that makes me feel better about humanity

00:03:11   if I think about it that way.

00:03:12   - The reason I was preparing for this today

00:03:15   and not like three days from now

00:03:16   when this stuff is actually about to hit us

00:03:18   is because I feel like I'm about to get really sick

00:03:21   because everything's going around, my whole family's sick,

00:03:23   I'm starting to feel it.

00:03:24   So I'm thinking, I need to stock up on food

00:03:28   to get me through being sick.

00:03:29   At the same time, everyone else is thinking

00:03:32   to stock up on food to get them through the apocalypse.

00:03:34   - Just stay at home and eat saltine crackers,

00:03:36   you can live for weeks on that.

00:03:37   - But everybody's saltines are always stale.

00:03:39   - Doesn't matter, they still are life-giving.

00:03:43   - But nobody ever needs saltines enough

00:03:47   for their saltines to be fresh.

00:03:48   Everybody needs saltines like twice a year.

00:03:50   So everyone's saltines at any given time are stale.

00:03:53   I used to be quite a saltine fiend, but I'm now convinced that when you buy them from

00:03:59   the store, I'm now convinced that they're stale like in the store.

00:04:02   Because a few times I bought like a brand new package of them, intending to use them

00:04:06   for soup like as you do, and open them up and I'm like, "These are already stale.

00:04:10   How is that even possible?"

00:04:11   I feel like just being one of those old people and returning to the supermarket and saying,

00:04:14   "I picked these saltines off your shelf and they're already stale."

00:04:18   I would love to just go shopping with you sometime.

00:04:21   - Amen.

00:04:22   (laughing)

00:04:23   It would be amazing.

00:04:24   - Well, I mean, there are so many better crackers.

00:04:27   Wheat Thins are way better.

00:04:28   - No.

00:04:29   - Saltines were the only cracker in my house

00:04:31   when I was a kid, so that's what I had,

00:04:33   but I could, you know, I don't eat them anymore,

00:04:35   but I did back in the day.

00:04:36   - Slim, salty pickings.

00:04:38   (electronic beeping)

00:04:40   - Rob wrote in to tell us,

00:04:42   and I feel like I've seen some

00:04:45   conflicting information about this,

00:04:47   But the general theme seems to be true, that at the very least, the iMac trapezoidal boxes

00:04:54   are, in fact, shipped—oh, I'm sorry—are stored upside down and then right side up,

00:05:01   upside down, right side up.

00:05:02   And so Rob wrote in and said, "As a former Apple Store employee, I can tell you that

00:05:05   iMacs are stacked on the shelves in the right side up, upside down fashion.

00:05:10   They are not, however, shipped this way.

00:05:11   When the computers are shipped, each one is in a standard cardboard box, like every other

00:05:14   product for secrecy."

00:05:16   I gotta tell you, mine was shipped to me, which may be different than the stores.

00:05:20   It was a standard cardboard box in that it was unmarked on the outside, but it was the

00:05:24   same basic shape.

00:05:25   Anyway, Rob continues, "They don't care how many computers can fit in the truck.

00:05:29   However, they do care about how many computers can be stacked on the shelves in the back

00:05:32   where there's already not a lot of room."

00:05:34   Yeah, some people sent pictures as well, like a palette of IMAX showing them alternating.

00:05:39   Even the palette was weird, like the one photo we had.

00:05:41   It did show them saving space by alternating.

00:05:43   They weren't upside-down, right-side-up.

00:05:44   they were like laying flat, you know, pointing left and right. But then sometimes on some

00:05:48   layers of the palette there would be like these filler blocks, because I guess it didn't

00:05:54   work out to be completely flat. So there were these triangular filler regions. It was very

00:06:00   strange. Anyway. That's like where you put all the UK keyboards.

00:06:03   Yeah, like you said, throwing the Mighty Mice in there.

00:06:07   Well they come with the mice, so you don't need that. But it's like where you need

00:06:10   the things that not everyone needs.

00:06:12   So you put like the UK keyboard, maybe the trackpad.

00:06:15   - Yeah, you put, stop it with iPod socks.

00:06:17   Anyway, it seems clear that at the very least

00:06:20   in the back of the Apple stores

00:06:21   where there's not a lot of room

00:06:22   because they have tons of stuff back there,

00:06:23   I'm sure they definitely pack them in like that.

00:06:26   And I imagine a lot of them are shipped like that,

00:06:27   but apparently not all.

00:06:29   - Fair enough, all right, moving on.

00:06:30   Joe Mazzolotti, I hope I pronounced that right,

00:06:34   wrote in and he said, "Casey discussed how mocks and Swift

00:06:37   "can only be created if the language allows them.

00:06:39   I disagree that mocks can only be created by subclassing.

00:06:42   Actually, I think that is an anti-pattern.

00:06:44   He continued, mocks may be created by having the class

00:06:46   conform to a protocol, or if you're a C# guy like me,

00:06:49   an interface.

00:06:50   This can be done inside your own framework

00:06:52   and for Apple's as well.

00:06:53   For example, you can mock NSURL session

00:06:55   by adding a new protocol URL session.

00:06:58   Then via protocol extensions, you can have NSURL session

00:07:00   conform to your framework.

00:07:02   As long as you keep the method signatures the same,

00:07:04   Swift will compile without issue.

00:07:05   I wrote about this extensively on my blog,

00:07:07   and we will put a link in the show notes.

00:07:09   I believe, I don't think that's entirely accurate,

00:07:11   what I said.

00:07:12   What I had said was that it's really a lot easier

00:07:15   if you do interface or protocol,

00:07:17   or if you program to interfaces or protocols,

00:07:19   because then mocking becomes a lot easier.

00:07:21   And I said that to Joe privately in an email,

00:07:23   and he actually just wrote back and said,

00:07:25   in so many words, yeah, we're on the same page.

00:07:29   Actually, let me read from his email.

00:07:30   "Design to an interface is great

00:07:31   "until you end up with interfaces or protocols

00:07:33   "with a single implementation of your production code.

00:07:36   "The Swift solution I proposed almost forces this.

00:07:38   I'm not sure if this is tangential to the initial argument, but it's something I'm struggling

00:07:42   with, which is a very fair point.

00:07:43   There's a lot of times that I've written to interfaces specifically to enable really easy

00:07:47   mocking for my unit tests, but in my actual code, there's only one implementation of that

00:07:53   interface and that's the one I use.

00:07:54   So it's a little bit weird and dodgy, but you can check out his blog post and kind of

00:07:59   see for yourself.

00:08:00   Yeah, I always forget about protocol extensions.

00:08:02   Like it's just clear that I'm not actually using Swift, but I'm just reading about it

00:08:05   on mailing lists.

00:08:06   Like, "Oh yeah, protocol extensions.

00:08:07   They're neat.

00:08:08   Even though there's whole sessions at WWDC about them, they're already like, if you're

00:08:11   not used to working that way or thinking in that way, it just didn't occur to me.

00:08:16   But yep, that's totally possible.

00:08:17   That's the way to do it.

00:08:18   And it wouldn't bother me if I had a thing with only one implementation.

00:08:22   It wouldn't bother me at all.

00:08:24   Yeah, I mean, in my extensive experience with both Swift and mocks and general testing,

00:08:33   I agree.

00:08:34   Thanks, Marco.

00:08:35   Go team.

00:08:36   All right.

00:08:37   All right, we have a lot of follow-up about blue light. A lot of people have written in

00:08:43   about this. I don't think I am the best of the three of us to summarize this, so I don't

00:08:48   know if one of you wants to handle this for us.

00:08:51   I'll take it, because it was what I said that was partially, if not entirely, wrong. So

00:08:57   basically, last week talking about the flux/night shift claims of blue light at night being

00:09:06   bad for your sleep quality. I had said that I was not able to find in my research before

00:09:11   the show, I was not able to find connections that said blue light specifically was bad.

00:09:17   What I was finding was saying that just like bright light was bad and that could negatively

00:09:22   affect sleep quality, but the blue light didn't seem to be anything special. Turns out that's

00:09:26   totally wrong, that there's actually quite a bit of evidence to suggest that all brightness

00:09:32   of light does negatively affect your sleep quality by basically tricking your body into

00:09:38   not producing melatonin, I believe.

00:09:40   I think that's right.

00:09:41   It's just part of the sleep cycle and everything.

00:09:43   It doesn't produce enough of it or it doesn't produce it correctly or it tricks the circadian

00:09:46   rhythms or some stuff that's way above our pay grade here.

00:09:50   But looking at any kind of bright light before bed will cause this problem, but there's

00:09:56   a point in the blue spectrum.

00:09:57   In fact, we got an email from Dr. Todd Stincic, who very specifically identified it, because

00:10:05   there are three different kinds of things. We think of the rods and cones and the eye.

00:10:08   There's also a third kind of light-sensitive cell thing back there that is specifically

00:10:15   not for vision, but it's to regulate this melatonin-type thing for the sleep cycle and

00:10:21   for the circadian rhythms and all this stuff. Please forgive me for butchering this. But

00:10:25   But anyway, this third kind of light receptor back in our eyes, it has a peak sensitivity

00:10:32   at 479 nanometers, which is, so it's basically the shade of blue, and that is like the peak

00:10:38   sensitivity so that if you get a lot of light on that, it activates these cells the most,

00:10:44   and that inhibits the melatonin and everything else into like telling your body, "Hey, it's

00:10:48   time for sleep."

00:10:50   But it isn't this like narrow window where if you just don't see that shade, you're fine.

00:10:55   shade is just the peak of sensitivity and as you get further away from that wavelength

00:10:59   in either direction, sensitivity drops but it still works. So if you reduce the blue

00:11:09   range of the spectrum, you can see more brightness without it being a problem. Whereas if you

00:11:16   see, so if you see like if brightness is fixed, seeing blue is worse than seeing other colors,

00:11:22   know, they're far away from that. But you still ideally should be lowering the entire

00:11:26   light level. That's basically the gist of it. So that overall, brightness is a problem,

00:11:32   but you're extra sensitive to the blue region at night.

00:11:35   It was another doctor, a professor of neurology, he was more kind to you. He said that you

00:11:41   basically got it exactly right, but the same thing, you know, that light can adjust to

00:11:44   circadian rhythms, but there's a particular sensitivity to the blue light. Lots of people

00:11:48   sent us the study showing the particular sensitivity to the blue light, but that all light counts

00:11:53   for that. This had one extra little nugget saying that another benefit of reducing the

00:11:57   amount of blue light at nighttime is it helps the rods in your eyes stay adapted to the

00:12:01   dark. That way when you look up from the screen you won't trip over something in your dark

00:12:05   house.

00:12:06   Yeah, and he likened it to like why the military stuff is all like red light allegedly. Is

00:12:13   that true or is that a myth? I always thought that might have been a myth.

00:12:15   We have a professor of neurology says it's true, so.

00:12:19   - It's probably true, then.

00:12:20   - No, I can tell you I have been on a military vessel

00:12:23   when it was out at night, and I can absolutely tell you

00:12:25   for a fact that that is true.

00:12:28   - So was everyone just falling asleep all the time, or what?

00:12:30   - No, what I mean is that there's red everywhere.

00:12:32   - It is keeping your eyes, it's the same,

00:12:34   it's the pirate eye patch all over again, you know?

00:12:37   - The what?

00:12:38   - Pirate eye patch?

00:12:39   Come on, people.

00:12:40   - Is that like when you close one eye

00:12:41   when you get up to go to the bathroom at night

00:12:43   so then you can open it when you turn the light off

00:12:44   and see your way back?

00:12:45   Yes, that's why the pirates are the eyepatch, so when they go below decks where there's

00:12:48   no lights because they didn't have electricity on their pirate ships, they could flip up

00:12:52   the eyepatch and that eye is adjusted to the dark and they can see better.

00:12:55   I didn't know that.

00:12:56   That's crazy.

00:12:57   You thought they all had one eye?

00:12:58   Well, I didn't.

00:12:59   I had no idea.

00:13:00   I never thought about a pirate needing an eyepatch before.

00:13:02   The pirates are there to eat the saltines.

00:13:03   There's a lot of pirate lore you guys don't know about.

00:13:07   Oh, my God.

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00:14:36   So we should probably do a little bit of follow-up about my iMac.

00:14:41   So where we last left our hero, he had a completely dead iMac that he could not resuscitate in

00:14:48   a Genius Bar appointment for, I think, the following day.

00:14:51   On that bombshell.

00:14:52   On that bombshell, right.

00:14:53   In talking with another friend of mine, he had pointed out to me, "You know, you could

00:14:58   just return this."

00:15:00   And I thought, "You know what?"

00:15:01   I think we talked about it on the show, actually.

00:15:03   And I thought, you know what?

00:15:04   I am going to return it, because this thing is going to be forever tainted in my mind

00:15:08   if I try to get it repaired and they have to crack it open.

00:15:11   So the following day I cancelled my Genius Bar appointment.

00:15:13   I went in and returned it.

00:15:15   And I had boxed it up all nicely in the retail box, the trapezoidal retail box.

00:15:20   I'd done what I could to get it all back together as cleanly as I possibly could.

00:15:24   I brought it into the store and the gentleman on the store floor, who I happened to walk

00:15:28   up to, said, "Okay, I can handle that return for you while you're returning it.

00:15:32   it's basically DOA. Oh, that sucks. Okay, no worries. All right, I just got to open it up and confirm the serial number to make sure,

00:15:39   you know, now I'm kind of filling in the lengths, but to make sure that you're not doing a bait-and-switch or anything like that.

00:15:43   So he says, "Oh, I'm gonna open it up. I'm gonna take it out. I'm gonna turn it on." Oh.

00:15:47   Because he wanted to go into, like, About My Mac and see the serial number and realized, "Hmm,

00:15:55   that's not going to work. Now is it?" He starts looking, and I start looking on the back of the Mac,

00:16:01   trying to find a printed serial number. And me, having never owned an iMac before,

00:16:05   I had assumed that's where it would be. It's not. He goes and takes this thing to

00:16:11   the back to where, like, I guess the off-duty geniuses are, or maybe some of

00:16:14   the on-duty geniuses, to try to get them to help him figure out where the crap

00:16:18   the serial number is. Do either of you guys know where the serial number on the

00:16:21   iMacs are? It's on a little metal plate on the dashboard. We know where to find the tire pressure,

00:16:28   and we know where to find the VIN number. The VIN number is in all sorts of weird places.

00:16:31   - There are.

00:16:31   - No, I would imagine my, I mean,

00:16:34   like where could it possibly be, right?

00:16:36   The only place it could possibly be

00:16:37   is what opens up on the iMac?

00:16:39   It's the memory door opens up, right?

00:16:42   That's the only thing that opens,

00:16:43   and other than that, I'm sure it's printed somewhere

00:16:44   like on the motherboard or whatever,

00:16:45   but you gotta take the whole thing apart to see that.

00:16:47   - And I wouldn't think it'd be on the memory door

00:16:49   because that's something that you can take off,

00:16:51   so that's no good.

00:16:52   I would guess it's printed somewhere on the metal,

00:16:55   but God knows where, I mean.

00:16:56   - Well, that's the thing.

00:16:57   So I didn't know any better, having never had an iMac.

00:17:00   It turns out it's on the bottom of the foot.

00:17:02   (laughing)

00:17:02   - Oh, sneaky.

00:17:03   Was it a sticker on the bottom of the foot,

00:17:05   or was it etched into the metal?

00:17:06   - I believe it was printed on the metal,

00:17:07   although I don't recall off the top of my head.

00:17:09   And what just occurred to me just this moment,

00:17:12   how does that work for Snell's iMac that had the Visa mount?

00:17:15   - Good question.

00:17:17   Maybe it's on the mount itself,

00:17:18   'cause there is a little thing back there

00:17:20   that it would have to mount to.

00:17:21   - It's gotta be in more than one place.

00:17:23   - But either way, so that took a few minutes to get through,

00:17:26   which was not a big deal.

00:17:27   I mean, I was just as confused as the dude was,

00:17:29   And, you know, perhaps the guy should have known it, but I mean, I didn't, so I can't really blame him.

00:17:34   So anyway, so it ended up that they returned it, no questions asked, and, you know, once they had somehow, some way, confirmed the serial number.

00:17:44   And then I had already, at that point,

00:17:47   ordered a new one. And the other thing that I wanted to tell you guys about, which was a new discovery for me,

00:17:53   did you know about expedited shipping on the Apple Store?

00:17:57   - Is this when we were yelling at you last week?

00:18:01   - To pick the expensive shipping?

00:18:03   - Whenever, if I'm buying something that costs

00:18:05   like multiple thousands of dollars

00:18:07   and I can get it like next day for like an extra 40 bucks,

00:18:11   I will, even though it makes no sense,

00:18:12   I don't do that in normal stuff.

00:18:14   If it was 40 bucks to get like a shirt the next day,

00:18:17   I wouldn't do it.

00:18:18   But for some reason, the psychology

00:18:20   of like the relative pricing works out.

00:18:21   - Pricing psychology, that's how they charge you $150

00:18:24   for floor mats or your car and you're like whatever.

00:18:26   - Exactly, yeah.

00:18:26   It's like, if it's like 40 bucks

00:18:28   to get my awesome new computer a day earlier,

00:18:30   I'll usually do it, 'cause it's like,

00:18:31   that's like the cherry on top, you know?

00:18:33   - So I didn't know that this,

00:18:35   I knew that I could do faster shipping,

00:18:37   but I didn't look into how much it was.

00:18:39   Well now, I'm seriously impatient,

00:18:41   'cause I've just returned the beautiful 5K iMac

00:18:43   that I was waiting for for a week

00:18:45   as I watched it march across the country on FedEx ground.

00:18:48   And this time, I was like, you know what,

00:18:50   I'm going to do expedited shipping, darn it,

00:18:52   expecting that this like 20 pound box

00:18:54   would be 50 or 100 bucks.

00:18:56   It was $42, to your point, Marco.

00:19:00   $42!

00:19:01   And the best part was,

00:19:03   it arrived at 8.30 in the morning at my doorstep.

00:19:07   Pro tip, if you're going to buy a Mac from Apple

00:19:09   and you're not going to get it retail,

00:19:10   like a bill to order, for example,

00:19:12   definitely, definitely, definitely

00:19:14   do the expedited shipping.

00:19:15   - Is that really a pro tip?

00:19:16   Because I think what Marco just outlined

00:19:18   is the illogical pricing psychology

00:19:22   that makes you think that's a good deal

00:19:24   And in reality, you could take those 42 bucks and spend it on lots of other things.

00:19:28   Like it's 42, it's the same size as if you paid $42 to ship a pen to your house, which

00:19:32   you would never do because the pen costs two bucks.

00:19:34   But when you're shipping the expensive computer, somehow that $42 for shipping is totally worth

00:19:38   it.

00:19:39   So I would say, get some books on Zen Buddhism from the library or something and learn some

00:19:42   patience and then pay for the cheap shipping because $42 is the same size no matter what

00:19:48   it's attached to.

00:19:49   Who in their right mind would pay $42 of shipping

00:19:52   to get a package of saltines delivered from Amazon?

00:19:54   Nobody would.

00:19:55   But, and I'm accurate, sure, $42.

00:19:57   And you waited four days for it anyway

00:19:59   because you had to spend the weekend.

00:20:00   Terrible.

00:20:01   - Nobody likes saltines enough to ever do that.

00:20:04   And also, if you ever want saltines,

00:20:06   you're probably within 50 feet of a store

00:20:08   that has some 12-month-old saltines on the shelf.

00:20:11   - I'm just saying, $42 does not change size

00:20:13   when you put it next to the price of an expensive computer.

00:20:15   - All I'm saying is, for me, and I think for Marco too,

00:20:18   Damn if it wasn't worth it, 'cause, oh my god,

00:20:21   I was so glad I did that.

00:20:22   - It's like a little touch of luxury, you know?

00:20:25   - Yeah, yeah.

00:20:26   - It's like getting the extra leg room seat on the plane.

00:20:28   - Yeah, the 27 inches of luxury don't count,

00:20:31   but that $42 quick shipping.

00:20:33   - You need to spend a lot of time convincing yourself

00:20:35   to do nice things for yourself

00:20:36   by buying yourself fancy things.

00:20:37   It seems like a skill we all have, we're all really good at.

00:20:40   I can teach you the skill.

00:20:42   - Yeah, right.

00:20:42   - You have seminars.

00:20:44   - Marco, as I've said to you in the past,

00:20:45   you are the best worst influence.

00:20:46   Anyway.

00:20:47   - My seminars would totally have extra legroom seats

00:20:49   at the front for an extra 20 bucks.

00:20:51   (laughing)

00:20:53   - So I am talking to you right now from a 5K Retina iMac.

00:20:59   This thing is magnificent.

00:21:01   To recap, I had bought the mid-range one

00:21:04   because it was the crummiest one

00:21:07   that could support the one terabyte SSD,

00:21:10   which is what I got.

00:21:11   I got it with eight gigs of RAM

00:21:13   and then immediately for this one

00:21:15   had put in 32 gigs of other world computing,

00:21:18   Mac sales, whatever they call themselves, RAM.

00:21:20   So it's a one terabyte drive, 32 gigs RAM,

00:21:24   the four gigahertz processor, and I am in love.

00:21:27   Couple of quick immediate thoughts

00:21:29   for those who may be like me and leaving a laptop behind,

00:21:32   or considering leaving a laptop behind.

00:21:34   Oh my God, 27 inches is magnificent.

00:21:36   And I have never looked at my 15 inch MacBook Pro

00:21:40   and thought, oh my God, the screen is so tiny until now.

00:21:42   (laughing)

00:21:43   It is insane.

00:21:45   And one of the things that I've noticed is I've gotten really, really into using spaces

00:21:51   on my MacBook Pro, and I don't use them nearly as heavily here because I have so much friggin'

00:21:58   real estate.

00:21:59   I can put a million windows on the screen, and by a million I mean like five, Jon.

00:22:02   But I can put a million windows on the same screen and have them tiled and not feel overwhelmed.

00:22:08   It's magnificent.

00:22:09   Welcome, Casey.

00:22:10   I know.

00:22:11   Welcome.

00:22:12   I've been trying to get you to walk through this door for so long.

00:22:15   You can only bring the horse to water, as they say.

00:22:17   Believe me, you don't need help with that.

00:22:20   [laughter]

00:22:22   So anyway, so the only complaints I have so far...

00:22:26   First of all, I have no good solution for this, really,

00:22:29   but having the ports on the back of a curved surface, I'm not really into that.

00:22:35   It's kind of wonky to plug in, like, a USB key or USB devices.

00:22:40   I mean, not a big deal, but it's a little wonkier than I'm used to on my laptop.

00:22:44   Yes, I know, first of all, problems.

00:22:46   However, the SD card slot does not trip my SD card's write-protect switch like both of

00:22:53   my MacBook Pros did every single time.

00:22:58   So that's a big win.

00:22:59   The new Magic Keyboard, or whatever they're calling this thing, very thin, I like it a

00:23:03   lot.

00:23:04   Charges via Lightning, I like that a lot.

00:23:06   That being said, this arrow key situation that I thought Jon was completely overblowing,

00:23:11   oh God, it's the worst.

00:23:14   It's the worst.

00:23:15   Having the full height left and right just totally throws off my arrow key game.

00:23:20   And I just, I know I'm going to get used to it over time, but right now it's driving me

00:23:25   up a wall.

00:23:26   You don't have to get used to it.

00:23:27   You can buy an Apple keyboard with an inverted T that you can feel with your fingers and

00:23:29   you never miss and every single key is full size.

00:23:32   It's great.

00:23:33   Yeah.

00:23:34   You can also get the Microsoft Sculpt ergonomic keyboard that I recommend so much for like

00:23:39   60 bucks and solve this problem really quickly.

00:23:41   But I blew that on the shipping.

00:23:42   I couldn't even get that out of the straight face.

00:23:47   I tried so hard to sell that, I lost it.

00:23:49   Oh, God.

00:23:50   So anyway, so I have just this very moment, I am tweeting a picture of my setup that I

00:23:55   had queued up because I didn't want to spoil the fun for those who listen live, and I am

00:23:59   really digging this.

00:24:00   I think I had mentioned last episode that I have cleaned up my office quite a bit. My

00:24:04   desk used to be a total disaster, and now it actually looks nice and clean. The floor

00:24:10   you can actually see now, which is really exciting. So I'm feeling good. I'm feeling

00:24:15   like this is a fresh start.

00:24:16   - I just, I'm so happy. I'm just so happy that you finally are on something real.

00:24:22   - What? Well, come on.

00:24:23   - No, I mean, like, look, I did the, you know, 15-inch laptop with the second monitor on

00:24:27   on a desk thing for years.

00:24:29   And it's fine, but if you can do this instead,

00:24:32   this is better.

00:24:33   And it's not a little bit better, it's a lot better.

00:24:35   - Yeah, yeah.

00:24:36   It's so far so good, I really like it.

00:24:38   And I haven't yet missed having a laptop.

00:24:41   Give me time, I might, but I mean,

00:24:42   we have enough other laptops that aren't quite as new,

00:24:45   but we have enough other laptops floating around

00:24:47   between my work laptop, which actually is fairly new,

00:24:49   my personal laptop, which I'm thinking about

00:24:52   putting a really tiny SSD in, even though it's from 2011.

00:24:55   - You know, you could probably get an SSD for 40 bucks.

00:24:57   I'm thinking like a 64 or 128 gig SSD would be more than enough for an occasional computer.

00:25:03   But yeah, so far I'm really enjoying it, so far I'm really, really, really happy.

00:25:08   And we'll see what happens.

00:25:09   And I know for some people this is like completely old and boring news, but there's a lot of

00:25:12   people, in fact most people that I know are full-time laptop users.

00:25:16   And so if you're one of those people like I was until just this past Monday, you know,

00:25:21   it doesn't have to be that way.

00:25:23   There are, I wouldn't say there are greener pastures, but there are—

00:25:27   - There are larger, less portable pastures.

00:25:28   - Yes, there are larger and less portable pastures around.

00:25:32   So yeah, that's my follow up about that.

00:25:35   - Well and also, I mean like, if anybody is thinking like,

00:25:37   oh, why are they talking about one person's computer choice,

00:25:41   you would be amazed how much email we get

00:25:44   and how many tweets we get from people asking

00:25:45   what computers we use or what they should buy,

00:25:48   or asking us to talk more about this kind of stuff.

00:25:50   This is the kind of thing that a lot of people

00:25:53   care about this, and I do too, I'm one of those people,

00:25:55   That's why I love talking about this stuff.

00:25:57   - Yep, completely agree.

00:25:58   We got one of those emails earlier today, in fact.

00:26:00   So that's the deal.

00:26:01   But so far, so good.

00:26:02   So far, two thumbs up on the iMac.

00:26:04   John, any thoughts?

00:26:06   - I think your keyboard's too high.

00:26:07   I'm concerned about you.

00:26:09   Besides, this is one of the things

00:26:10   when you're switching from laptop to,

00:26:12   I mean, it depends on what you do with your laptop.

00:26:14   If you literally put your laptop on your lap,

00:26:16   then you can pretty easily have your arms

00:26:20   at a right angle while you're typing.

00:26:22   But if you're sitting at a desk

00:26:24   the way most people sit at a desk, like with a chair and desk height, like a typical chair

00:26:27   and desk height, the keyboard is way too high.

00:26:30   So you either need to raise your chair, in which case the monitor is probably too low,

00:26:35   and then you need to raise your monitor, or you need to lower your keyboard by using a

00:26:39   keyboard tray or something like that.

00:26:40   So I'm concerned that if you're going to use the computer for a long time, you may be in

00:26:44   a different position than you were with your laptop.

00:26:45   Now if you're using your laptop on top of the same desk in the same position, then you

00:26:48   already have that problem.

00:26:49   I'm just saying I think your keyboard's too high.

00:26:52   I'm also concerned about you hanging your headphones on the boom arm for the mic.

00:26:57   It seems like putting undue stress on the arm.

00:26:59   And you are revealing yourself as a left-side dock user, which is...

00:27:02   Hey, I'm a left-side dock user.

00:27:04   No, please, no.

00:27:06   That looks like the Rode boom arm.

00:27:07   It is.

00:27:08   And the Rode Podcaster is way heavier than the combination of those headphones and that

00:27:12   microphone.

00:27:13   Now, what's wrong with all...

00:27:14   Are you a dock-on-the-bottom kind of guy, or are you a right-side dock kind of guy?

00:27:17   I wish the dock didn't exist kind of guy.

00:27:19   Well, right.

00:27:20   That's old school.

00:27:21   Given that's the case, where do you keep your dock, Jon?

00:27:24   Like, on laptops I keep it on the right, because the screen's too damn small and you can't do it.

00:27:28   And on desktops with big screens, I keep it on the bottom and I grumble about it.

00:27:31   But the left, the left is madness.

00:27:33   Okay, so the reason I have it on the left is a holdover for my laptop days,

00:27:37   but generally speaking I would have, in any of my working environments, be it work or home or what

00:27:42   have you, I always had the laptop directly in front of me, and then I would have an external

00:27:48   monitor to the right of the laptop, and thus the dock was on the leftmost edge of my two-screen

00:27:54   setup. I guess alternatively I could have done the exact same thing and had it on the far right side

00:27:58   of the external monitor, but I've just always liked it on the left. And it seems insane to me,

00:28:03   to your point, more so on laptops than desktops. But on these widescreen displays, why in God's

00:28:09   green earth would you keep the dock on the bottom? And I should also note that mine auto-hides,

00:28:13   which will probably drive you crazy as well. Yeah, I'm not a fan of auto-hide. Now, you keep it on

00:28:17   on the bottom because once the screen is humongous,

00:28:19   it's not like it's really eating into your screen.

00:28:20   Like, oh yeah, it is wider than it is tall,

00:28:22   but this thing is so freaking big.

00:28:24   Like, it's not like you're eating up the space.

00:28:26   So it's fine.

00:28:27   And the bottom is wider because if you have lots of stuff

00:28:30   in your dock, whether it's lots of docked items

00:28:32   or lots of applications, it's more room for them to line up

00:28:35   before they start shrinking, right?

00:28:36   So.

00:28:37   - Yeah, I guess so.

00:28:37   I don't know.

00:28:38   I'm a left dock kind of guy.

00:28:39   - I'm with you on that, Casey.

00:28:40   Solidarity in the left dock.

00:28:42   - I so wish we didn't have to run the dock.

00:28:44   Like this is the one, like one of the few handful

00:28:46   remaining persistent OS X things that annoy me.

00:28:49   Like because I run drag thing and I would only run drag thing if I could but notifications

00:28:54   still can only be received by the dock and notifications are important enough to see

00:28:58   a little badge and an icon or see a little bounce and drag thing can't get them and only

00:29:03   the dock can so I'm forced to run the dock and I could hide the dock but I don't like

00:29:08   the having to go down there when the little thing pops up and you can't if you hide the

00:29:11   dock you can't see badges like slack just badges it doesn't bounce and I don't like

00:29:14   bouncing. It's just an uncomfortable situation with the dock where I wish I didn't have

00:29:18   to run it, but I do, and it seems like that's never going to change. Anyway, the dock I

00:29:23   think is the right – as I've written many times – I think the dock is at this point

00:29:26   the right choice for most people, but for me specifically, I really wish there was some

00:29:30   way I didn't have to run it.

00:29:31   Oh, I should also note just to really drive you up a wall that I also use magnification

00:29:35   and I like it.

00:29:36   Nice.

00:29:37   Whatever, whatever.

00:29:38   I don't go that far, but I respect you for being that guy.

00:29:42   - That's me, I am that guy.

00:29:45   - A left side auto-hide magnifying dog.

00:29:47   It's like you're, I was gonna say,

00:29:49   it's like you're a new Mac user, but you are.

00:29:50   You actually are.

00:29:51   (laughing)

00:29:53   - Oh man, there's an infinite time scale joke here somewhere.

00:29:56   All right, what else is awesome these days, Marco?

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00:31:30   - All right, so there's been some news from iAd,

00:31:34   which is something I didn't think I'd ever really care

00:31:36   enough to say on this show.

00:31:38   But there's been some things going on, and there was an announcement this week.

00:31:42   So tell me about that, one of you.

00:31:44   It was confusing, because I originally had this in the notes.

00:31:46   I read their—again, I don't care about iAd.

00:31:48   It doesn't really affect my life at all.

00:31:50   I don't really have apps that use it.

00:31:51   I'm not a developer.

00:31:52   But like, oh yeah, iAd is still a thing.

00:31:54   And there's this little tiny announcement, and I guess everyone just read it quickly

00:31:59   and was confused.

00:32:00   It's like a paragraph long.

00:32:01   "iAd App Network will be discontinued," is the headline.

00:32:04   An iAd app network will be discontinued as of June 30th, 2016, blah blah blah blah blah.

00:32:08   And it's like a paragraph of text saying, "Oh, I guess they're, are they not doing iAd

00:32:11   anymore?

00:32:12   Well, whatever, they were never good at it, didn't seem like ads, didn't seem like Apple's

00:32:15   heart was in ads or whatever."

00:32:17   But I and many other people miss that second word in there.

00:32:21   iAd App Network.

00:32:23   Not iAd itself as a concept, but the iAd App Network, which is a way that you can advertise

00:32:29   apps in the App Store through iAds.

00:32:32   So they're not doing that anymore.

00:32:34   But iAd is still going to be a thing, and I guess we can continue to go back, you know,

00:32:38   we can go back to ignoring it like we always did.

00:32:41   I was actually kind of hoping, I was kind of disappointed when I learned that they're

00:32:44   only talking about the thing that lets you advertise apps that are in the App Store through

00:32:48   iAd.

00:32:49   I wish the whole thing would go away, because as far as I'm concerned, it's not like a value

00:32:54   ad.

00:32:55   Like to me as a user, I don't care that Apple has an advertising thing that they would let

00:33:01   people sell ads on.

00:33:02   Like you may say, "Oh, it enables people to have free apps in the App Store."

00:33:05   But I really don't think people need more ways to have free apps in the App Store.

00:33:09   I don't think that iAds are particularly better than other kinds of ads.

00:33:13   Maybe they are.

00:33:14   Maybe I don't buy enough apps with ads.

00:33:15   Maybe Apple's ads really are as fancy as they say and, you know, so much better than the

00:33:19   other.

00:33:20   But just, it just doesn't appeal to me.

00:33:21   It doesn't make me feel better about Apple as a company.

00:33:23   And I would be glad if they said, "You know what?

00:33:25   That iAd thing we were doing, forget it.

00:33:27   We're just not doing it all anymore.

00:33:28   We're going to phase it up."

00:33:29   Instead, they're just phasing out this small component of it.

00:33:31   So I'm actually kind of disappointed that my misreading of this announcement is not

00:33:36   what's actually going on.

00:33:37   Yeah, I mean, iAd is a weird beast, and obviously it has not gone the way Apple hoped it would.

00:33:43   I mean, keep in mind, when they first made this, they were showing off this fancy, like,

00:33:47   Nissan, was it the Nissan Leaf, one of the first ads for it, that was like all interactive,

00:33:51   and you tap it, and you spin the car around, all this crap.

00:33:54   And like, they were envisioning this very, very expensive and kind of like, you know,

00:34:00   clean ad format that almost immediately flopped.

00:34:04   I mean, I don't think they got past,

00:34:06   I honestly don't think they got past

00:34:07   their launch partners on it.

00:34:09   Like, I don't think they ever had any other ads

00:34:11   that were that fancy, like, super interactive kind

00:34:13   after the launch partners.

00:34:14   - It's like the pipe dream of advertisers

00:34:16   thinking that you're gonna be spending time, like,

00:34:19   - Exactly.

00:34:19   - Like, using their, like, you will sit there

00:34:22   and willingly interact with an ad, like,

00:34:25   "Oh, I can spend any," like, that is a fantasy.

00:34:28   isn't this fun? I'm engaging all over your brand.

00:34:30   - Right, right, like, I mean, there are ways

00:34:32   to get people to do things, but it has to be like,

00:34:35   you have to have like a, you know, a funny viral video

00:34:38   or a game or whatever, but the idea that someone's

00:34:40   gonna be so interested in the Nissan Leaf,

00:34:42   that an ad that pops up in an iOS app,

00:34:45   an ad in an iOS app, you went to the app to do something,

00:34:47   and the Nissan Leaf pops up on your screen,

00:34:49   you'll be like, you know what, I was gonna do something,

00:34:50   but let me spend 10 minutes tapping around

00:34:52   inside this interactive ad.

00:34:54   That is a fantasy of an advertising person

00:34:57   just has convinced themselves that people are gonna,

00:35:01   I mean, unless you're giving them free money

00:35:03   or you're, you know, like there's a limited number of ways

00:35:07   to actually get the interaction

00:35:09   and all of them are pretty terrible.

00:35:11   And so trying to make a classy, nice one,

00:35:14   like if someone's really interested in the Nissan lift,

00:35:16   they're gonna like go to the Nissan website

00:35:18   or maybe they'll download the Nissan app or something,

00:35:20   but they're sure as hell not going to take a break

00:35:22   from going to play a game they were gonna play

00:35:25   or whatever application they were using

00:35:27   and derail themselves and interact with your ad.

00:35:29   So that just seemed doomed from the start.

00:35:33   - Well, and not only was it the advertiser pipe dream,

00:35:36   I think moreover it was Apple's pipe dream

00:35:38   that this is the kind of thing advertisers

00:35:40   would actually do and would want

00:35:42   in a way that would be compatible with what Apple wanted.

00:35:45   What Apple wanted, from what we all heard

00:35:48   from the stories at the time,

00:35:49   basically Apple wanted tons of control,

00:35:51   way huge buy-ins up front from big brand companies,

00:35:55   brand advertising like Coke and Nissan,

00:35:58   not like small stuff that would advertise on podcasts,

00:36:01   big stuff that would advertise on TV, that kind of stuff.

00:36:04   Imagine working with Apple as an advertiser,

00:36:09   that's just not compatible.

00:36:11   Apple wants a certain degree of control and everything.

00:36:14   The fact is, ads, in order for ads to work,

00:36:19   they have to do things that conflict

00:36:22   with what Apple does most of the time.

00:36:25   So it only takes, if an advertiser's looking at a bunch of

00:36:28   possible platforms they can advertise on,

00:36:30   and they're like, "Well, we can work with Apple

00:36:33   "and spend a ton of money for an ad that gets

00:36:35   "x click-through rate, or we can make our own

00:36:38   "and put it on these many other mobile ad networks

00:36:41   "that is maybe a little bit more annoying,

00:36:44   "or a little bit more flashy,

00:36:45   "or a little bit less user-polite."

00:36:48   But that'll get twice the click-through rate

00:36:50   and twice the conversion rate,

00:36:51   because it turns out being annoying works.

00:36:53   And not just a little bit, but a lot.

00:36:56   The race to the bottom advertising,

00:36:58   like, there's a reason the one weird trick things

00:37:01   are everywhere.

00:37:02   You just go right to the bottom.

00:37:03   What are the base brain stem reaction things?

00:37:07   Just you put up a picture of a pretty lady,

00:37:09   you put up a gross thing, you put out a tease

00:37:11   about celebrities.

00:37:12   You put those stupid boxes that are

00:37:14   at the bottom of every website.

00:37:15   I'm so depressed when I see them now.

00:37:16   I punch the monkey better than this.

00:37:18   Like, when you go to the bottom of every website,

00:37:20   all of a sudden there's these nine squares attempting

00:37:23   to tap into the nine most primal instincts of human beings

00:37:28   to get you to click on something.

00:37:30   And like I scroll down, like I'll be reading a website

00:37:32   that I think is a good website,

00:37:33   and be like, oh, not you too, really, everybody?

00:37:36   Like it's just, you know, it's just terrible.

00:37:38   And those, and they do that for a reason,

00:37:41   because they're effective, right?

00:37:43   And so that's totally, like you said, Marco,

00:37:44   that's totally against what Apple wants.

00:37:45   Apple wishes people were different than they are,

00:37:47   but they are not.

00:37:48   What people actually click on are one weird trick ads.

00:37:50   And Apple does not want one weird trick,

00:37:52   or didn't originally, so this utopian vision of iAd,

00:37:55   I still think iAd is better, probably about keeping out

00:37:58   the worst of the worst scammy ads,

00:38:00   but it's across purposes.

00:38:04   The advertisers want effectiveness,

00:38:06   and Apple wants to not annoy people,

00:38:09   and those don't really go together.

00:38:11   - Right, and Apple also has strict privacy controls,

00:38:15   and advertisers, for advertisers,

00:38:17   invading your privacy is very profitable.

00:38:19   It helps them better target their ads,

00:38:21   and they even tell themselves it's better for you,

00:38:23   whether you agree is up to you.

00:38:25   But the whole idea of don't annoy our customers

00:38:30   and respect their privacy and we're only gonna give you

00:38:32   access to this little sandbox of information

00:38:35   and you're only allowed to do these things,

00:38:36   that goes against what every advertiser wants

00:38:38   and what many other ad networks would demand.

00:38:41   So the only ways to make this work would really be

00:38:45   if they banned any other kind of ad network

00:38:49   from running on iOS, which they could do.

00:38:51   - I'm surprised they didn't do that.

00:38:53   - Honestly, I am too, but they could do that, no question.

00:38:57   And maybe they will in the future, I doubt it,

00:39:01   but they could.

00:39:02   It would be a little hard to enforce,

00:39:04   'cause you start getting into questions of like,

00:39:06   maybe like, what is an ad?

00:39:07   But App Review has never shied away from vagaries

00:39:09   and difficult distinctions.

00:39:11   - All that would mean is all the advertisements

00:39:13   would be coming as push notifications,

00:39:15   instead of only 15% of them.

00:39:17   So iAd, you know, it started out this way with this like fancy Nissan LEAF stuff. It

00:39:21   very, very quickly did not fill up with those things and instead started filling up with

00:39:25   crappier ads. Your earlier point is, I think, fair of like why they even run this at all.

00:39:32   And it does, I've also heard from developers complaints that the fill rate was never very

00:39:36   good on iAd. And so the fill rate for people who aren't in this business is literally

00:39:41   just like, you know, if you have an app and you have an iAd banner in the app, what percentage

00:39:46   of the time does the IAD actually have an ad to serve in there? And if they don't have

00:39:52   an ad to serve in there, it's just like blank. So what percentage of the time do they actually

00:39:56   have something in? You as the app publisher want that to be 100%, or at least as close

00:39:59   as you can get to 100%. The IAD people basically have never had that kind of fill rate as far

00:40:05   as what I've understood. And so what usually happens if you're implementing an IAD, usually

00:40:10   you have like a fallback network where you can supply to the IAD thing, you can say if

00:40:15   don't have an ad, show this." And then there you put in another ad network that

00:40:21   will presumably have something to show there for you.

00:40:24   So on one hand, I can see, you can say like, if you can think about why Apple might want

00:40:29   to keep iAd, to me the biggest argument is they think it's like the lesser of the two

00:40:34   evils. We're like, "Well, if you're going to have ad-supported apps, which seem to be

00:40:39   a common enough thing now, that's a given now. There are going to be ad-supported apps."

00:40:45   So if there's gonna be ad-supported apps,

00:40:46   might as well be our nice, respectful of your privacy

00:40:50   ad network rather than someone else's.

00:40:53   That is the best argument for iAds still existing.

00:40:56   But in practice, because everyone's using

00:40:58   these back-filled networks in addition to iAd,

00:41:01   we're not even achieving that goal.

00:41:03   We're not getting the nice privacy and everything else.

00:41:06   We're not getting that because if you're running

00:41:08   ad-supported apps, you're running arbitrary code

00:41:11   from God knows who from these other ad networks

00:41:13   that's doing God knows what on your phone.

00:41:16   And at least iOS has things nicely sandboxed

00:41:18   and everything to make it a little bit harder to be creepy,

00:41:20   but there is still creepiness to be had.

00:41:23   And so I think the theoretical goal of iAd being like,

00:41:27   well, better us than them, I don't think works in practice,

00:41:31   so I think I'm with you, Jon.

00:41:32   Like, I don't really see why they keep running it.

00:41:36   - Also seems like a previous generation ad network,

00:41:39   because these days, the thing to do is not,

00:41:42   I mean, we all know about native advertising, but like the in-between where it's not completely

00:41:46   native advertising, but it's like in the flow of what you're normally doing.

00:41:50   It's not a banner on the top or bottom of the page while the rest of your app can use

00:41:53   its business.

00:41:55   If your app has any kind of timeline, for example, the ads would be put in the timeline,

00:41:59   like Instagram ads.

00:42:00   They just appear to be another picture, but oh, wow, my friend suddenly became better

00:42:03   photographers.

00:42:04   Oh, it's an ad.

00:42:06   It's not a banner that appears coming down from the top of the Instagram app while you're

00:42:10   using it.

00:42:11   That's the old model.

00:42:12   integrated so not everyone has an app that's like that obviously they can't work for games

00:42:15   and stuff like that although actually it can because you put billboards inside the games

00:42:19   and do all this stuff like that but Flappy Bird made all of its money via ads.

00:42:23   Yeah that one did have just a little banner but like advertising that's better integrated

00:42:27   into the application is certainly the trend and iAd doesn't give you any help there.

00:42:32   I agree that it's mostly it seems like it's mostly there just because like hey we want

00:42:35   to make it easy as possible for developers to write apps for iOS and since some developers

00:42:39   want to be free with ads, we provide a way to make ads.

00:42:44   And if you don't like it, do your own way, but when you're just starting out as a developer

00:42:47   in the same way that you may not have credit card processing set up and be able to deal

00:42:51   with customers and be able to do all this other things, hey, the App Store will do that

00:42:55   for you and you want to put ads, don't worry about negotiating a deal with an ad networker

00:42:58   file, we'll do all that for you.

00:43:00   It seems like a sort of starter kit training wheels type thing that also happens to give

00:43:04   Apple a little bit of control, but the fact that it's not super popular means that I don't

00:43:09   see it evolving into a more sophisticated framework for, you know, like, so you have

00:43:13   a timeline app, here's a new WWDC session, how you use the iAd network to have native

00:43:19   advertising filling in your application instead of just having banners above and below and

00:43:24   stuff and I don't know, it just seems like one of those products that Apple doesn't really

00:43:29   seem to care about that's not important to the company that's probably not going to get

00:43:32   a lot of attention.

00:43:33   The only announcement out of it is a paragraph little thing saying you can't advertise your

00:43:36   you're absent in it anymore, it just doesn't seem like a winner.

00:43:41   If they're going to keep doing iAd, they should go all the way. They should ban other ad networks

00:43:47   and make iAd so good that that actually works. But now they have this weird, half-butted

00:43:53   way of doing it with, it's just kind of like, "Well, we have this thing, it mostly sucks,

00:43:58   you can also do these other things, and everyone who ever tries both will end up doing this

00:44:03   other thing because it's going to be way better than us."

00:44:05   I think that they can't go back and close the door on third-party ads now because I

00:44:10   think they would put them at an even bigger competitive disadvantage against Android.

00:44:15   You're probably right.

00:44:16   You know, like, it's maybe when Android was really weak and they were the big game in

00:44:20   town they could have set a precedent like they did with so many of their strong-arm

00:44:23   app store things, right?

00:44:25   But at this point, like, it's too late, the horse is out, can't close the barn door, whatever,

00:44:31   you know.

00:44:32   Half-butted is right.

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00:46:15   - iTunes Radio.

00:46:17   Apparently that's going away-ish.

00:46:20   The free stuff is going away.

00:46:21   As a listener of Ad-supported Radio and Apple Music,

00:46:23   we want you to know that it is being discontinued

00:46:25   starting January 28th, which is probably about a week

00:46:29   after this episode is released.

00:46:32   Additionally, with an Apple Music membership,

00:46:33   you can access dozens of radio stations

00:46:35   handcrafted by our team of music experts,

00:46:37   commercial free with unlimited skips.

00:46:40   So they're kind of pulling in the reins on iTunes Radio too.

00:46:44   - Yeah, you still have Beats One.

00:46:46   Beats One is still free,

00:46:48   but I guess the other ad supported,

00:46:50   I mean, maybe people aren't listening to them,

00:46:52   maybe it's just a reacting to the market or whatever,

00:46:54   but it's an excuse to, you know,

00:46:56   another opportunity to say, you know,

00:46:57   if you pay for Apple Music you get lots of cool stuff,

00:47:00   but you're not getting these ad-supported

00:47:01   radio stations anymore, you just get Beats One.

00:47:04   - Beats One is free even if you're not

00:47:05   an Apple Music subscriber?

00:47:06   - I totally forgot that iTunes Radio was a thing.

00:47:11   This news made no sense to me until just now,

00:47:14   when I finally remembered, oh yeah.

00:47:16   - It's like, I had an end user also,

00:47:18   like services that you forgot existed,

00:47:21   that are now being changed or canceled,

00:47:23   and you're like, well, all right, I guess.

00:47:27   I mean a lot of people were upset about this part of it.

00:47:29   I saw a lot of people talking about it,

00:47:30   but I thought there was some kind of Apple Music

00:47:33   like indefinite trial mode,

00:47:36   but I guess that was just iTunes Radio,

00:47:38   which they, we stayed long as like,

00:47:39   what, a year or two earlier,

00:47:41   and that was basically their Pandora clone.

00:47:43   So that one had like a free ad mode and a paid mode.

00:47:47   Right, was there a paid mode?

00:47:49   I don't even remember.

00:47:50   It was such a weird kind of half-baked service

00:47:53   for all that time.

00:47:54   But Beats 1, so Apple Music has always been paid only,

00:47:57   but was Beats 1 allowed to be available for free?

00:48:00   - The chat room says Beats 1 has always been free.

00:48:03   - Well, I did not realize.

00:48:04   - Never knew that.

00:48:05   - Yeah, me neither.

00:48:06   Well, we should use homework once everyone now and again.

00:48:10   - All right, your homework is to listen to Beats 1

00:48:12   for a week, good luck.

00:48:13   - Yeah, no, none of us were into that part of Apple Music.

00:48:17   - So speaking about things that we know nothing about,

00:48:19   let's talk about the new Apple Music apps.

00:48:21   - Yeah, a little bit about them.

00:48:22   I downloaded it, I tried to do things with it.

00:48:26   So they announced a new version of GarageBand for iOS,

00:48:28   which is great, you know, it looks cool,

00:48:30   it looks interesting for people who use GarageBand on iOS.

00:48:33   And they have a new app called,

00:48:36   what the heck is it called, Music Memos?

00:48:38   - I believe that's right.

00:48:39   - And this app probably makes a lot of sense

00:48:42   if you are the type of person who had previously

00:48:46   been using the bundled voice memos app

00:48:48   to record little snippets when you get ideas for songs.

00:48:51   Like if you're a musician and you're on the go

00:48:53   and you're like, "Oh, a little tune is stuck in my head."

00:48:54   And you want to like make a note of it for later,

00:48:56   rather than calling yourself

00:48:57   and leaving it on your voicemail,

00:48:58   which is also a thing that I've heard musicians do.

00:49:01   You can use the voicemails app

00:49:02   to just hum a little tune into it or whatever.

00:49:04   Music Memos is an app that says, as far as I can tell,

00:49:08   stop doing that, use this app instead,

00:49:10   because that's what it's made for.

00:49:12   And you do something into it

00:49:14   with either your voice, guitar, piano,

00:49:16   and then it will like put auto accompaniments with it,

00:49:20   with their little AI tempo matching thing

00:49:24   with different kind of music lines.

00:49:25   And then you can export it into GarageBand and go on with it.

00:49:27   Now, I really have no idea how I would ever use this app.

00:49:30   I probably wouldn't at all,

00:49:31   but Serenity Caldwell wrote about it on iMore.

00:49:34   So you should read this article.

00:49:36   The headline is very straight and to the point.

00:49:37   "I wrote and published a song in 30 minutes

00:49:39   with Apple's music memos."

00:49:41   So this is clearly an app with a definite audience

00:49:43   that is not me, but it seems neat.

00:49:46   In the same way, GarageBand seems neat.

00:49:48   And it got me thinking about iOS,

00:49:51   I mean, this starts to get into our area

00:49:53   and Marco's area specifically.

00:49:54   iOS devices as platforms are doing audio stuff.

00:49:59   They seem so perfect because they're small, battery powered.

00:50:04   They have more than enough CPU power

00:50:06   to do most of the things you'd want to do with audio

00:50:08   because audio is wimpier.

00:50:10   Like, I mean, these days you can do

00:50:11   amazing video things with them,

00:50:12   but audio is wimpy enough that the CPUs

00:50:15   in the modern iOS devices absolutely crush it.

00:50:18   They're like, "Yeah, we can do all sorts of amazing things.

00:50:20   "It's just a question of screen size

00:50:22   "and inputs and outputs."

00:50:24   So every time I see Apple trying to make iOS devices

00:50:29   more viable hardware accompaniments to audio things,

00:50:33   whether it be music or podcasting or whatever,

00:50:36   I think that's a great move

00:50:37   because it just seems like such a natural fit.

00:50:39   And Marco can probably speak to this better than anyone,

00:50:42   but the frustrations with knowing that the power is in there

00:50:46   that you could do really awesome audio things with iOS,

00:50:49   except for, and I would imagine it's usually input output,

00:50:52   but maybe, you know, and software,

00:50:54   and the market for that software or whatever, so.

00:50:57   - Yeah, basically, I mean, this is,

00:50:59   I had the same opinion as you of this app of like,

00:51:02   I'm really happy to see Apple's doing stuff like this.

00:51:04   It looks like a great app that I will never use

00:51:06   because I don't have that kind of creative talent,

00:51:08   and I wish I did, but I don't.

00:51:09   Yeah, I mean, in general, like, you know,

00:51:11   I think it was on Connected,

00:51:15   where our friend Mike Hurley mentioned that iOS is the happening place to be in software

00:51:22   right now. All the exciting software is happening on iOS. All the innovation, for the most part,

00:51:28   is happening on iOS. If you want an app to do something cool on iOS, you probably have

00:51:35   at least five or ten different choices for what that app might be, whereas if you're

00:51:39   looking for a similar kind of Mac app, you might have one or two. iOS is just like, for

00:51:45   where the action is right now. And it is unfortunate that there is so much about iOS that limits

00:51:51   or makes it difficult to do certain kinds of work or certain kinds of multitasking or

00:51:57   activities. And over time they keep trying to lift those with varying degrees of success.

00:52:02   Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. But iOS is where this kind of stuff happens

00:52:07   these days.

00:52:08   I was thinking about what is the new Rogue Amoeba app?

00:52:11   Loopback.

00:52:12   Loopback, yeah.

00:52:13   So imagine, I mean, again, it's not a hardware issue.

00:52:16   Imagine if you could have an iPad

00:52:18   that had the power of audio hijack and loopback,

00:52:22   like we're always thinking of,

00:52:24   going to get into something

00:52:25   that we know something about, podcasting.

00:52:27   Can we have like a little portable podcasting studio

00:52:29   where you can record multiple people,

00:52:31   some of them local, some of them remote, right?

00:52:36   do like the equivalent of Skype calls or FaceTime

00:52:39   or whatever and record them in their locations

00:52:41   and record locally with people

00:52:43   and then do all the editing for it.

00:52:44   Like, can you produce a podcast with just an iOS device?

00:52:47   And hardware wise, you totally can.

00:52:48   There's plenty of storage space for a podcast.

00:52:51   The screens are big enough to do editing.

00:52:54   Jason Snell recently edited one of the incomparable episodes

00:52:57   on audio editor on the podcast.

00:52:58   Like this is all possible.

00:53:00   It's just a question of IO,

00:53:03   getting the software out there that can do this.

00:53:06   And then having some hopefully nice OS supported facility

00:53:11   for doing all the sort of system level things

00:53:13   that we just described that the Rogomib apps do on the Mac.

00:53:16   Where you do have access like a loopback

00:53:18   lets you make artificial virtual audio devices essentially.

00:53:21   So you say, I want the audio from these three microphones

00:53:23   to be presented to Skype as a single input

00:53:26   because Skype is dumb and just wants a single input.

00:53:27   Really have three people talking here.

00:53:29   And AudioHijack lets you set up audio pipelines

00:53:33   from this app to that app to this app.

00:53:34   Like say you wanna have like a soundboard app

00:53:36   where you can insert sounds into the podcast in real time

00:53:39   and have the other people who are on the call hear it.

00:53:41   Like these are all things we all do today on a Mac,

00:53:43   which they're, you know, it's why Macs are powerful

00:53:45   and we love them, but hardware-wise,

00:53:46   there's no reason an iPad can't do all of that.

00:53:49   It's just software barriers.

00:53:51   And then I guess hardware barriers for connectivity,

00:53:54   like how the hell are you gonna hook up all these mics

00:53:55   to your thing?

00:53:56   Do they all have lightning connectors hanging out at the end?

00:53:57   Is there some kind of hub or whatever?

00:53:59   So we seem so close to, I mean,

00:54:01   I know there's tons of things like, you know, for music,

00:54:04   I think it's much better.

00:54:05   musical instrument apps for sequencing things and for performing music on them

00:54:11   and for composing songs and GarageBand on it. Like the music industry seems

00:54:15   better served by it than like the podcasting industry but it frustrates me

00:54:20   because I still see reasons why video you might need a beefier rig to do like

00:54:24   video, the storage requirements are much bigger, the I/O requirements are

00:54:28   bigger, you probably want more space to do stuff so we're still not quite there

00:54:31   But audio, we just seem like eternally on the cusp.

00:54:34   So I'm really happy that Apple also sees this.

00:54:37   Because if someone had said,

00:54:38   "Hey, what do you think the first new app for iOS

00:54:41   that Apple is gonna announce in 2016?"

00:54:43   I doubt many people would have thought of something

00:54:44   like Music Memos, but I'm glad that Apple did,

00:54:46   because it shows that they understand

00:54:48   like the strengths of the platform they have.

00:54:50   And we just, this has got to keep going.

00:54:51   And it's gotta get down to the OS level

00:54:54   and the multitasking level and the access to audio

00:54:57   on the device, and then eventually the IO.

00:54:59   And I think we will, maybe five years from now,

00:55:01   be able to do full podcast recording and production

00:55:06   on the go with an iPad, but we'll see.

00:55:08   - Is that what Fraser Spears is doing with Canvas,

00:55:10   with Federico Vittucci?

00:55:12   Is he recording on the iPad as well?

00:55:14   I know-- - I believe he does.

00:55:16   - See, I thought so too.

00:55:17   It says in this blog post, which we'll link,

00:55:18   that we are walking the walk to,

00:55:21   the show itself is edited and published entirely on iOS

00:55:24   using Ferrite, which is what Jason Snell

00:55:26   has been talking about.

00:55:27   I thought that they had said

00:55:28   that they were also recording it on iOS,

00:55:30   but I'm not 100% sure.

00:55:32   - I know Fraser does, I'm not sure if Federico does, but--

00:55:35   - Maybe that's what it is, is that only Fraser does,

00:55:37   and that's why I didn't say it in his blog post.

00:55:39   - Yeah, I mean, I think Apple has this view

00:55:43   of how the world should be, how modern computing should be,

00:55:46   and what they mean by that is iOS,

00:55:47   and how things should be isolated from each other,

00:55:51   how things should be safe and should be secure

00:55:54   and locked down, and if you look at,

00:55:58   what kind of innovation happens on the Mac

00:56:01   and historically on desktop computing,

00:56:04   it tends to very frequently involve some kind of hack

00:56:08   that is just not possible on iOS devices.

00:56:11   For instance, what you're talking about,

00:56:12   so like if you want to record something for podcasting,

00:56:16   there are special tools that basically try to do

00:56:19   like voiceover IP and also record it

00:56:22   so that you can use it for podcasting.

00:56:24   They tend to not be as good as just using Skype.

00:56:26   So what everyone does is we just use Skype.

00:56:29   And then we use apps on the Mac to record our Skype calls

00:56:33   that mostly are hacks.

00:56:36   Sometimes they, like,

00:56:37   Piezo is a pretty straightforward recorder

00:56:39   'cause it can share the input,

00:56:40   but what a lot of people do to record Skype

00:56:43   is just use Skype Call Recorder from Ecamm,

00:56:45   which is a complete hack that is impossible on iOS

00:56:49   because it basically injects itself into Skype

00:56:51   and records that way.

00:56:54   And on iOS, there is a Skype app for iOS,

00:56:58   but you can't record out of it in software.

00:57:00   The only way to do that would be to have two devices

00:57:02   and like to run the audio out from one

00:57:05   into some kind of lightning connected USB audio interface,

00:57:09   which believe me, that's a whole world of pain.

00:57:11   I've done that, it's not great, you know,

00:57:14   to have like these weird like cheaply made,

00:57:17   unreliable $70 audio interfaces for iOS devices

00:57:22   that some of which might be able to keep it charged,

00:57:24   of which you won't. They all have these big plastic garbage knobs on them. It's like trying

00:57:28   to buy a high quality USB hub. It's very, very difficult.

00:57:32   >> What you're doing there is you're doing the hardware version. You're doing like a

00:57:36   reverse skeuomorphic hardware version of Audio Hijack. Like you're literally connecting boxes

00:57:41   with actual wires in the real world instead of dragging and dropping the little boxes.

00:57:45   I mean, even things like Audio Hijack, I think Loopback must be using supported facilities for

00:57:51   you know, creating virtual devices or something.

00:57:52   Like even on OS X, like you said,

00:57:55   a lot of these things that we're using right now,

00:57:57   I'm using call regard right now, are kind of hacks.

00:58:00   But every time I see hacks on any system,

00:58:02   whether it's OS X or iOS,

00:58:04   where we can't really have them or whatever,

00:58:05   it's like the fact that so many people,

00:58:07   like the fact that people are building businesses

00:58:10   selling these hacks, which is very difficult to do

00:58:12   because you have to be really careful

00:58:13   and you can't screw up stuff.

00:58:14   And like, it shows there's such an incredible market need

00:58:17   that software developers are willing to fill that need,

00:58:19   that it is lucrative for them to fill that need,

00:58:21   even though it is super hard work and the stuff breaks

00:58:23   when Apple changes things out from underneath them.

00:58:26   It shows that they're crying out for your OS

00:58:29   to have supported facilities for this functionality.

00:58:31   And so tons of things on iOS that aren't even possible.

00:58:34   I always wonder if we can have the hacks,

00:58:36   is that removing a signal from Apple?

00:58:37   But then I look at the Mac and I'm like,

00:58:39   they're not getting that signal either.

00:58:40   It's so clear that we wanna do more sophisticated things

00:58:42   with audio that we just named Ecamm and Rogue Amoeba,

00:58:46   two businesses basically built,

00:58:48   I don't know, Ecamm sells a lot of things, but Rogomiva built around selling audio stuff

00:58:52   to do things with your Mac that people clearly want to do, that they're willing to pay good

00:58:56   money for, that they have to do as hacks because Apple doesn't have a good supported way to

00:59:00   do it.

00:59:01   And it's just, the signal's just not getting through.

00:59:03   Like they'll pass in the grass hacksies thing.

00:59:05   Like this is where people are walking, Apple.

00:59:08   Like pave their paths.

00:59:10   Like it's such a clear signal and it's frustrating to not see them take advantage of.

00:59:15   Anyway, sorry, I derailed your connecting of boxes

00:59:17   with crappy plastic things.

00:59:19   - No, but it's, what you're saying,

00:59:21   it's exactly, it ties in earlier

00:59:23   with what you were saying with iAd,

00:59:24   where with iAd, it's like Apple had this view

00:59:27   of how they thought the world was,

00:59:29   or maybe it was wishful thinking,

00:59:30   how they thought the world would become

00:59:32   if they would build these beautiful, clean,

00:59:36   concrete rooms for people to fill

00:59:38   with all this respect for your privacy

00:59:40   in an industry that just doesn't do that.

00:59:43   Apple thought that the world would adapt to their vision for iAd, and it just didn't,

00:59:47   and that was kind of a foolish thing to even think would be possible. And I think you can

00:59:53   look at the bigger picture of how they lock down iOS and to an increasing degree the Mac,

00:59:59   but the Mac is still nowhere near the level of lockdown that iOS is. You can look at that

01:00:04   versus the pressures of us needing some of these hacks to get our work done or to innovate.

01:00:12   So much innovation has happened through hacks like this.

01:00:16   A few months ago we mentioned things like DropBox,

01:00:19   it was fun integration, all this crazy stuff

01:00:21   that now is either not possible anymore

01:00:24   or harder or more limited as the OS keeps getting

01:00:27   more and more locked down.

01:00:28   Enabling these hacks to some degree is very productive

01:00:33   and to some degree necessary for us to get our work done

01:00:36   and to push things forward.

01:00:38   And earlier today, maybe I'll do the after show

01:00:40   on how I jail broke two iPhones today for the first time

01:00:43   in like six years or something.

01:00:45   (laughing)

01:00:46   But you know, and it's for the same reason.

01:00:48   If like, Apple has this vision of how things should be

01:00:51   and everything is locked down and isolated

01:00:52   and it will allegedly work perfectly

01:00:54   and it's the future of computing

01:00:55   because they're the ones saying it's the future of computing

01:00:57   'cause certainly if you're the one talking

01:00:59   and you're making computing devices,

01:01:00   you wanna say yours is the future of computing.

01:01:02   Doesn't mean, you can say it as much as you want,

01:01:04   doesn't make it true.

01:01:05   It might become true but there's no guarantee of that.

01:01:08   But you know, they're saying this is the future of computing

01:01:10   but they have this very highly opinionated view of them being in extreme control of quite

01:01:17   a bit more than what their users can do and what of course developers can do as well.

01:01:22   And the reality of that is you have people saying, "I can't get worked on on iOS devices

01:01:27   because of reasons X, Y, or Z," and Apple's trying to knock those reasons down. They're

01:01:30   trying to solve it. They want people to be able to get their work done on iOS devices,

01:01:34   there are these major barriers that Apple won't budge on that are just fatal barriers

01:01:40   to a lot of these uses. Podcast recording with Skype is, yes, it's a narrow thing that

01:01:45   only podcasters care about, but it is a very good representative of the problem as a whole

01:01:49   of so much of what we do today is like these big, private, centralized power holders that

01:01:57   we have to deal with. So in this case, Skype. Turns out, Skype is the best VoIP thing for

01:02:01   for podcasters to use to communicate with each other

01:02:03   while they're recording.

01:02:04   And if you want to record a Skype call,

01:02:07   you can't sit around and wait for Skype

01:02:09   to release an iOS app update

01:02:11   that will enable recording in their iOS app,

01:02:13   'cause they probably will never do it.

01:02:15   You have no input on that.

01:02:16   That's out of your control as a user or developer.

01:02:19   What you can do on the Mac is you can kinda hack around

01:02:21   and you can make this work.

01:02:22   On iOS, you can't do that.

01:02:24   That's a big problem, right?

01:02:25   And so you can extend this to so many problems

01:02:29   that chances are, like if you look around at, you know, like what any given person does

01:02:35   on their Mac, I bet almost everyone who uses a Mac depends on at least one weird hack that

01:02:44   is not possible on iOS. They depend on that on the Mac to do what they need to do. And

01:02:48   sometimes these are Apple doing these hacks because they can do it. They can hack as much

01:02:52   as they want. Sometimes it's other companies. And on the Mac we can still do that. And on

01:02:56   on iOS, we've never been able to, and that does limit things. In the same way that Apple's

01:03:02   insistence on the app being the strictly walled container for your data has been so limiting

01:03:08   so far with iOS. They're starting to break down some of those walls with iCloud Drive

01:03:12   and stuff, but with mixed degrees of success and mixed degrees of confusion.

01:03:16   Yeah, that's the big paradigm switch, the difficulty of the monolithic app. Because

01:03:21   like you were saying, you're waiting for Skype to add that feature. Are those people, the

01:03:24   that you have to say, oh, this app will let you record multiple people and it'll do voiceover IP.

01:03:28   Like you have to have one app to do it all because it's not, even on the Mac, it's still somewhat

01:03:32   difficult, but at least on the Mac, historically, we've had the ability to mix and match. Here's the

01:03:36   best app for talking to someone over the internet. Here's the best app for recording. Here's the best

01:03:41   app for editing my podcast. Here's the, you know, like that we could, that we had job specific apps

01:03:46   that you could use to work together to perform a single job or an iOS. It's like, well, it's kind

01:03:51   kind of easy if you just have one app that's like called podcast recording studio, whatever,

01:03:56   you know, that does everything that it, you know, it has to have its own voice over IP

01:04:01   client to talk to people remotely has to have its own microphone interfacing thing. It has

01:04:04   to have its own editor, has to have its own denoising filter. It's like, because if you

01:04:07   didn't, it's like, Oh, someone have to export this audio to this other app. Talking to Jason

01:04:12   Snell about podcast production, he's using some super fancy audio processing program

01:04:17   on his Mac that he's really impressed with. It does an amazing job of like intelligently

01:04:21   removing noise even better than the ones he was using before, he can mix that into his

01:04:25   workflow to say, "Oh, I was using this."

01:04:27   I think he's used three different apps for it.

01:04:29   Every time he finds a better one, he just swaps it out.

01:04:32   And maybe it would be better if there was one big integrated app that did everything,

01:04:35   but then he couldn't upgrade it piecemeal to say, "This part of my workflow I have just

01:04:39   made a lot better."

01:04:41   And it is kind of frustrating to have to incorporate all those apps together and deal with it,

01:04:44   but there's advantages and disadvantages, and iOS is totally on the, "You launch one

01:04:49   your device becomes that app and that app does everything for you and if it doesn't

01:04:52   like no one's leaving GarageBand to go out to some other thing constantly back and forth,

01:04:56   right? It's more of like a more of the waterfall model, right? But if you're doing the for

01:05:01   podcast production, it's a great example where you'd want to at the very least separate the

01:05:04   thing that like remotely talks to people whether it's FaceTime audio or Skype or whatever,

01:05:09   like whatever is best for that. That is a complicated application in its own right.

01:05:13   And you're like, let that app do what it wants to do. I just need to, in audio hijack parlance,

01:05:18   the little tube that has the audio coming out of it from whatever app I'm using, fat,

01:05:22   into this app that's also recording from my local microphones and then I can see the waveforms

01:05:26   or whatever. Anyway, we're not there yet.

01:05:29   And the kind of power that enables is that like, Loopback, the new argument we're talking

01:05:34   about, and before that Audio Hijack, these are apps that like, this can not only make

01:05:38   things possible that weren't possible before, but this can like eliminate the need for hardware.

01:05:43   Like that's very powerful, especially for things like affordability or just like speed

01:05:48   of deployment and experimentation of things.

01:05:50   Like I mean there are so many, I've hacked with audio so much and I have a closet full

01:05:55   of dumb wires and dumb little boxes that do one stupid thing because there's no software

01:06:00   thing to do it.

01:06:01   Like everyone who's ever had to do anything with audio has probably had this experience

01:06:04   where oh well I could do this because I need this one weird cable to go between these two

01:06:09   ports to loop this thing into this thing first and then I can do this. Like, it's, it's a,

01:06:14   it's a, audio is a huge pile of hacks, most of which are, have been in the past hardware

01:06:19   things that you needed to buy and manage and, and have on hand and, and connect up in certain

01:06:24   weird ways and hope nothing breaks and once you get it working, never touch anything.

01:06:28   And then when you get the software side of this, you can like, you can like move this

01:06:31   stuff around, you can play with it, you can, you can do things for free with no hardware

01:06:36   in seconds that you could never do before, like, that's very powerful. That's the kind

01:06:41   of innovation that computers are all about. This is what computers have always been about,

01:06:45   is breaking down barriers of what can you not do, you know, in the physical world or

01:06:51   in the previous world before your computer came around, what were you either not able

01:06:55   to do because it was too complicated or out of reach or what was too expensive for you

01:07:01   to do, you know, before dedicated hardware or special needs or anything. And the computer

01:07:05   knocks down those walls and says, "Now you can do it." It is very kind of democratized.

01:07:10   If you move towards this world of the monolithic app, like you're saying, John, the monolithic

01:07:14   app is not only more restrictive than that, and it eliminates a lot of those gains or

01:07:19   significantly reduces them, but also it is kind of less democratic in a way because the

01:07:26   number of people who can make a really great noise removal tool for audio is way bigger

01:07:32   the number of people who can make a complete audio production studio app and backend service.

01:07:39   The monolithic app requires that each app be way more advanced than the kind of Unix

01:07:45   philosophy of a tool does one thing and does that one thing well and you have multiple

01:07:49   tools involved in a workflow.

01:07:50   And we're not even close to that. Like if you think about Photoshop, that is a massive

01:07:54   application that does tons and tons of things, but there's still Illustrator. Like there's

01:07:59   still room for it. Like it doesn't matter how big you make the pieces.

01:08:01   are still MS Paint.

01:08:02   Well, you know, I'm just saying like that Photoshop, despite all the vector tools that

01:08:07   they keep adding to Photoshop, Illustrator still has a role.

01:08:10   Those are two massive applications.

01:08:12   We're not saying like every tool is like, "Oh, this is a tool for making circles.

01:08:14   This is a tool for making squares."

01:08:16   Like, it can be ridiculous because whenever you say Unix pipeline, they're like, "Oh,

01:08:19   one tool does one thing well."

01:08:20   Like no matter how big you make it, there's always a certain point where you're making

01:08:24   Photoshop and it's like, "Well, if we're doing page layout, should we add that to Photoshop?"

01:08:29   No.

01:08:30   in InDesign or whatever, there's always something else.

01:08:33   So like you were saying, for a podcast production,

01:08:34   there are so many aspects of it,

01:08:36   no matter how big you make any aspect of that,

01:08:38   you can imagine an amazing Skype equivalent for iOS

01:08:42   that is really reliable.

01:08:43   It's an incredibly hard app to make.

01:08:45   That's it, just do that.

01:08:46   Even that alone is basically,

01:08:47   maybe not as big as Photoshop, but it's a big problem.

01:08:50   Fine, take that and move it off.

01:08:52   And then if you wanna go down to,

01:08:53   all I do is reduce noise, that can be a very small app.

01:08:56   But there's so many things in between,

01:08:58   trying to do podcast studio editor production suite.

01:09:02   That's too much for anybody to bite off,

01:09:04   especially since you can only charge 99 cents for it

01:09:07   or have iAds in the bottom.

01:09:08   (laughing)

01:09:10   Exactly, exactly.

01:09:11   - You know, I wanted to come back to something

01:09:13   Jon was saying earlier about paving over

01:09:15   where people were making the paths in the grass.

01:09:19   - That's a reference.

01:09:19   - It is, among other things, to this very program.

01:09:23   Anyway, whatever, I think we should be,

01:09:28   considering that Apple has done that in many occasions,

01:09:31   but also with Audio Bus, because Audio Bus,

01:09:33   if memory serves, was an iOS app that would let you

01:09:37   kind of route audio between apps,

01:09:39   and didn't Apple start supporting that in GarageBand

01:09:42   like a year or two ago?

01:09:43   - Yeah, it was basically a third-party protocol

01:09:47   that people had just kind of made

01:09:49   to kind of hack local networking

01:09:52   into sending audio between apps

01:09:53   so that you could actually have an audio effects app

01:09:57   that was just like a certain effect that would be in a chain that would be supported by other

01:10:01   apps that supported AudioBus. And so the big deal there was that not only did Apple not

01:10:06   ban that from the App Store, but they built in support to GarageBand on iOS to work with

01:10:13   AudioBus apps. So that was very powerful. So audio is a slight exception to this rule on

01:10:20   iOS in that they did support AudioBus. However, only apps that work with AudioBus work in this

01:10:26   the system and Skype doesn't.

01:10:27   I was thinking of like audio buses like using the local network attack around like it's

01:10:31   good that they that they didn't like for example rejected and say you can't do that but using

01:10:37   loopback network interfaces as your IPC mechanism like surely there is a better way to get like

01:10:44   it's iOS John this is all we have.

01:10:46   I just like I seem to recall have vague memories of us seeing a demo showing drag and drop

01:10:52   between two side-by-side iPad applications that also use loopback, like you can do a

01:10:56   lot of stuff with loopback network interfaces, doesn't mean it's the right solution.

01:11:00   So again, the signal that should have been to Apple is like, I guess it's good that they

01:11:04   had a positive reaction to it, but what they should have done is like, man, there is a

01:11:08   clear market need for audio applications to be able to work together and generally to

01:11:13   have better audio routing within the system that is a real supported API for shuttling

01:11:19   audio buffers around, you know. And maybe it's difficult because it's kernel-level stuff

01:11:24   or whatever. Whatever they have to do. Like, I guess supporting using local network interfaces

01:11:29   for it is better than nothing, but that's not the answer. That's the final answer. They

01:11:33   can go, "Well, we solved that problem. Now let's move on to the next one. You haven't

01:11:36   solved it." And there is a need for it. And letting a third party dictate the protocol

01:11:43   is just so un-Apple-like. So I would just love for them to keep advancing in this realm

01:11:48   and to address the clear market needs.

01:11:50   - Yeah, and to kind of break some rules here and there.

01:11:54   Audio bus was, first of all, as you said,

01:11:57   I think that was an exception.

01:11:59   That was a fluke.

01:12:00   That was not the common pattern that Apple's doing here.

01:12:05   But you look at something like,

01:12:06   well, only apps that opt into it

01:12:09   are compatible with this system,

01:12:11   and Skype doesn't support it.

01:12:13   Well, in the world of desktop computing,

01:12:16   which is still wonderful, by the way,

01:12:18   still, hey, by the way, hey guys, still here,

01:12:20   still wonderful, in the world of desktop computing,

01:12:23   we can break those rules.

01:12:25   We can say, you know what, Skype doesn't support this,

01:12:27   well, we're gonna be clever as Ecamm

01:12:30   or users of Ecamm software or other people like this,

01:12:32   we can be clever, we're gonna give you stuff,

01:12:34   we can say, you know what,

01:12:35   even if your app doesn't support this,

01:12:37   we can work around that in this technical, semi-hacky way,

01:12:41   and we're gonna say, we're gonna enable this.

01:12:42   And that is so powerful for just enabling people

01:12:46   to do things. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. On iOS, that category of value

01:12:53   and that category of innovation is almost impossible. There are some areas for it, but

01:12:58   it's very, very limited compared to what you can do on Mac OS X or on Windows or anything

01:13:03   like that. And so I feel like we're missing out. We're making computing almost like

01:13:10   the same way that the hardware that Apple's selling

01:13:13   is so not hackable anymore.

01:13:16   You can buy what Apple offers,

01:13:18   and everything's soldered to the motherboard now,

01:13:20   and you can't replace anything.

01:13:23   There was a time back in the day,

01:13:25   I made my big post about the MB whatever 101

01:13:29   non-random MacBook Pro, where at a time when Apple

01:13:32   didn't sell 120 gig hard drives,

01:13:35   you could buy one off Newegg for 200 bucks and put it in,

01:13:39   you could have a configuration that Apple didn't sell.

01:13:43   Whoa!

01:13:44   And it was super powerful.

01:13:46   You could replace the DVD drive with another hard drive if you wanted a laptop with two

01:13:51   hard drives or tons of capacity or one small SSD and one big hard drive.

01:13:56   You could do stuff like that and now you can't.

01:13:58   Everything's locked down.

01:13:59   You can only buy what Apple sells in support configurations for most of their hardware

01:14:03   and that's that.

01:14:04   And in iOS it's the same kind of thing.

01:14:06   in the software, it's becoming the same kind of thing, where it's like you can only do

01:14:10   what is prescribed to you by Apple and each app in its own monolithic silo and that is

01:14:15   it. And that is very limiting and I really am concerned long term for this kind of dumbing

01:14:22   down of computing. There is value in making things more approachable, but I don't think

01:14:28   you have to eliminate ways people can innovate in order to do that necessarily. I think there's

01:14:35   other solutions to that problem and that these things are being conflated when that isn't

01:14:40   necessarily valid.

01:14:41   Well, I tend to agree with what you just said, but I think it's worth noting that we're really

01:14:49   tainted as desktop users, as people who really love desktops. I mean, I love desktops so

01:14:56   much that I went to a—

01:14:57   You just got one!

01:14:58   Yeah, I literally went from a laptop to a desktop just recently. But what you perceive

01:15:02   as handcuffs, I think other people perceive as wings, in that it's less complex in a good

01:15:09   way, it's less intimidating, it's less daunting.

01:15:14   Complexity is scary for a lot of users, and I'd say even for each of us.

01:15:19   There are things that we don't know how to do with our computers where that sort of complexity

01:15:25   is scary and frustrating and prohibitive.

01:15:29   And I feel like there's the right tool for the job, and I think that a lot of jobs, in

01:15:36   my opinion, recording podcasts being one of them, as we've used as an example, I think

01:15:40   the full bore computer, be it a laptop or desktop, is the right tool for that job.

01:15:44   But you can make a really good argument that there are a lot of other jobs where an iOS

01:15:51   device is, if not the rightest tool, it is a perfectly acceptable tool.

01:15:56   And I don't think any one thing needs to be all things to all people.

01:16:00   And it's kind of unfortunate that none of us is a really, really devout iOS user for

01:16:06   productivity-related things, because I really think that Federico, for example, would have

01:16:10   some strong counterpoints here.

01:16:11   And because I'm cut from the same mold that you guys are, I'm having a hard time arguing,

01:16:17   playing devil's advocate in their favor.

01:16:19   Well, again, I really do think it's worth clarifying here that you can have complexity

01:16:26   And you can have the ability to do complex things

01:16:30   without making something harder to use necessarily.

01:16:33   You don't need to lock it down to make it easier to use.

01:16:37   - Well, I think it's like, there's an accident

01:16:39   of history here.

01:16:40   A lot of the locking down things they're doing

01:16:41   is because a lot of the things we just described

01:16:43   on the Mac are unsafe, and we know what happens

01:16:46   if you allow them to run RAMP and you get it.

01:16:48   It's not a stable system.

01:16:49   What we really want is, and I hope what we're all

01:16:52   working towards is the ability for people to have new ideas

01:16:57   and do interesting things without compromising stability,

01:17:01   safety, predictability, like essentially wandering

01:17:04   into another app's memory space and screwing with it

01:17:06   is like the worst possible thing you can do.

01:17:07   It's terrible, right?

01:17:08   And, but on the other hand, if you have to wait for Apple

01:17:11   to provide you supported APIs,

01:17:12   like maybe that's not a great solution.

01:17:13   What we're looking for is, I mean, you know,

01:17:16   this is still, you know, distant future stuff or whatever.

01:17:18   Like we would like to be able to do interesting,

01:17:23   innovative things in safe ways.

01:17:26   And because we can't do them in safe ways,

01:17:28   because like the alternatives are basically,

01:17:30   if that app developer didn't think of it,

01:17:33   you can either parachute into their memory space

01:17:35   and cross your fingers and be really smart,

01:17:38   which is terrible, or you can't do a damn thing about it.

01:17:40   And what we're looking for is,

01:17:42   they may not have thought of it and hey,

01:17:43   here's a way you can do something and you can't screw it up.

01:17:45   Like that I think we want both.

01:17:48   We want, and we're getting it, you know,

01:17:50   in bits and pieces here.

01:17:51   Like it's like, that's why the solution isn't,

01:17:54   hey, Apple, you should allow memory injection on iOS.

01:17:57   Like that's not the solution, right?

01:17:58   That doesn't help anybody.

01:17:59   But because of the state of our languages

01:18:02   and the way we do, you know,

01:18:03   everything having to do with computers,

01:18:05   we're trying to move away from the bad old days

01:18:07   where it was the wild West,

01:18:08   but we haven't quite gotten to the new golden age,

01:18:10   which is now finally we have the freedom to do what we want

01:18:14   without the things that we know are downsides

01:18:16   from past technology.

01:18:17   So it's an uncomfortable transitional phase

01:18:21   where we don't have the safety we want

01:18:22   and we're trying to like, I guess the transition is

01:18:25   step one, make everything safe.

01:18:27   Step two, find the ways to do all the things

01:18:29   we used to do in unsafe ways.

01:18:30   And I just want to hurry up with the step two.

01:18:32   And like, that's why I think, like Marco said,

01:18:35   it doesn't have to increase complexity or be scary

01:18:37   or whatever, we just don't have the new ways to do it yet.

01:18:39   So Apple is more or less doing the right things of like,

01:18:42   look, we know these things are bad,

01:18:43   just stop them and you say, "Yeah, but I can't do X, I can't do Y." And then it's like, "All right,

01:18:48   well, you know, we're all on board with you, Apple. We agree it's not good, you know, whether

01:18:52   it's final default or sandboxing or any other things, but it's like, but at some point, you got

01:18:57   to give us the new, safer, supported, better, like, you have to give us the better way to do

01:19:02   these things because we want to do these things. And if you don't give us away, we're going to do

01:19:06   them the old bad way." Or, you know, like, it's not, you can't just pretend, this is getting to

01:19:11   to the core of what Marco's point is very often is,

01:19:13   you can't just pretend that those things

01:19:16   were unsafe and bad and will never need to do them again.

01:19:19   So just throw them in the dustbin.

01:19:20   Like the task that people were trying to accomplish

01:19:24   is still a task they want to accomplish.

01:19:26   If you give them a different, better way to do it,

01:19:28   they will take it.

01:19:29   If you give them no way to do it,

01:19:30   then they will just find some other way

01:19:32   to accomplish that task,

01:19:33   probably going back to the old bad way.

01:19:35   So I definitely feel like we're in a transitional period

01:19:38   with all this iOS stuff,

01:19:39   with the iPad Pro and everything like that.

01:19:40   and it's just like, it's an exercise in figuring out

01:19:43   how we can evolve this new, clearly safer,

01:19:47   clearly easier to use, you know,

01:19:49   less stuff that you shouldn't have to be concerned about.

01:19:52   That's what it boils down to.

01:19:53   Things on iOS that you, you know, that are on the Mac,

01:19:56   you have to be worried about X, Y, and Z,

01:19:57   and on iOS you don't worry about them at all.

01:19:59   That's good, thumbs up.

01:20:00   Now let me also use those iOS devices or whatever

01:20:03   to do the things I could do with my Mac

01:20:05   but in this new, safer way.

01:20:08   All right, thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week.

01:20:10   Fracture, Squarespace, and MailRoute, and we will see you next week.

01:20:17   Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin

01:20:21   'Cause it was accidental (accidental)

01:20:24   Oh, it was accidental (accidental)

01:20:27   John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:20:32   'Cause it was accidental (accidental)

01:20:34   Oh, it was accidental (accidental)

01:20:37   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:20:43   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:20:51   So that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:20:56   Auntie Marco Arment, S-I-R-A-C

01:21:01   USA, Syracuse, it's accidental

01:21:07   They didn't mean to, accidental

01:21:12   ♪ Tech podcast so long ♪

01:21:15   - What on God's green earth possessed you

01:21:19   to jailbreak a device?

01:21:20   - Two devices.

01:21:21   - Two devices in 2016.

01:21:23   - He didn't wanna pay for a game.

01:21:25   He didn't wanna pay 99 cents for a game.

01:21:26   - Yeah, that was it, yeah.

01:21:27   Oh my God, all right, so here's the deal here,

01:21:31   which fits in perfectly with what we were just talking about.

01:21:33   In developing the next version of Overcast,

01:21:36   I'm trying, you know, people have been complaining

01:21:37   about battery usage, so I'm trying to reduce

01:21:40   its power consumption, and that's one of the reasons

01:21:42   why I've actually replaced the visualizer,

01:21:44   the little animated bars.

01:21:45   I replaced that with a different one for the next version

01:21:48   that is way, way lower power.

01:21:50   'Cause that was a big power suck.

01:21:53   But I also, you know, I wanted to test

01:21:54   the core audio engine, and I made some improvements there.

01:21:58   But I wanted to be able to test this.

01:21:59   Like, I can do things that reduce the percentage

01:22:01   of CPU usage while I'm running it from Xcode.

01:22:04   Like, I can do that, but that doesn't tell me

01:22:06   how much power it's using.

01:22:07   And Xcode has, and there is an instrument,

01:22:09   power instrument, but it really just tells you,

01:22:12   you're using the radio right now,

01:22:14   oh, you used the CPU at this much at this point.

01:22:16   It doesn't tell you, the change you just made

01:22:19   just reduced battery life when running on an iPhone 5S

01:22:22   from two hours to one hour.

01:22:24   It doesn't tell you that.

01:22:26   It doesn't tell you how it'll actually behave on devices.

01:22:30   So it's very hard to know if you're actually making

01:22:33   progress with making things more battery efficient

01:22:36   in the real world on real devices

01:22:39   you're dealing with relatively small changes.

01:22:41   Like if you're using 100% CPU and you go to 20,

01:22:45   that's probably gonna be a pretty clear win.

01:22:49   You don't really need to test on a device

01:22:51   to know that that's a better idea,

01:22:53   or to do a full battery test.

01:22:55   So if you're trying to test whether something

01:22:58   is better on the battery, one way to do it

01:23:01   is to run it on a phone, like fully charge up the phone,

01:23:05   try to control everything as much as you can,

01:23:07   run it when the phone is 100% charged,

01:23:10   and see how long it takes for the phone's battery

01:23:12   to die completely.

01:23:13   That is probably the best way to do it.

01:23:16   That is also very hard to control in all ways,

01:23:19   and is extremely time consuming.

01:23:21   'Cause I found out, I took my closest spare device

01:23:26   to something that was relevant.

01:23:28   So I got my six plus and I'm like, you know what,

01:23:30   this'll be good because it turns out the battery

01:23:32   in the six plus is quite large.

01:23:34   I ran this test last night where I'm like,

01:23:36   I was playing it into, and trying to measure like,

01:23:39   when does the device turn off?

01:23:41   Like, that's hard to measure accurately

01:23:43   if you're not staring at it constantly.

01:23:45   So I had this big setup where I'm like,

01:23:46   all right, I had the 6 Plus playing

01:23:51   through the headphone jack into a USB sound card

01:23:54   that was recording onto my laptop.

01:23:57   And the laptop was just kinda like in the corner,

01:23:58   like just recording, just like record as long as possible.

01:24:01   And then in the morning I'll get up

01:24:02   and I'll see like where it stopped.

01:24:04   and I'll see how long of playback did I have

01:24:06   playing files continuously off this thing.

01:24:09   And then I can compare it to the built-in podcast app

01:24:11   to see what's my target, what should I be trying for,

01:24:13   what can a podcast app do if it's totally integrated

01:24:17   using all the official APIs versus what can mine do,

01:24:20   and I'll try to make those comparable.

01:24:22   So I wake up in the morning and the phone has gone

01:24:24   from 100% to 92%.

01:24:28   (laughing)

01:24:30   And I realize, oh no, this is not good.

01:24:33   So you just need another week of testing

01:24:34   and you'll get down to zero.

01:24:36   - I was expecting, 'cause it has Wi-Fi on,

01:24:40   so I want any kind of sync activity,

01:24:42   I want that to be counted.

01:24:43   So Wi-Fi's on, it's logged into iCloud,

01:24:45   to an iCloud account, but there's no other ads,

01:24:48   it's a restored phone, everything else is off,

01:24:50   and airplane mode is on, but Wi-Fi's on.

01:24:52   So it's not using the cell radio,

01:24:54   'cause I don't have an extra SIM anyway, it doesn't matter.

01:24:56   That would kind of be unfair,

01:24:57   'cause conditions can change and everything,

01:24:58   so I'm like, all right, let's use Wi-Fi.

01:25:01   Turns out a 6+ with an airplane mode, just using Wi-Fi with the screen off, only playing

01:25:08   audio out of its headphone jack is insanely power efficient.

01:25:12   And if you actually want to use Overcast to do that, you can expect something like 100

01:25:17   hours of playback time.

01:25:20   But that makes it difficult to actually develop and notice any big changes because if it takes

01:25:25   you a hundred hours to run a full test to see, did what I just do make a difference?

01:25:31   You know, did the change I made today, did that meaningfully change battery life? You

01:25:35   know, that's kind of a crappy cycle to be on. And I can use like a 5S, which has way

01:25:41   less battery life, or a regular 6S, but like, those mostly have the same problem. The 5S

01:25:48   would be the smallest battery in the group, but my 5S is also from when 5S's were new,

01:25:54   So it's a very old battery, and the 5S hardware

01:25:57   is very different from the 6 and 6S hardware.

01:25:59   Like the CPUs have gotten better,

01:26:00   the hardware is different, the screens are different.

01:26:02   So like the power profile might not be the same.

01:26:04   Something that is way more efficient on a 5S,

01:26:07   some change I make that's way more efficient,

01:26:08   might be less efficient on a 6 or a 6S.

01:26:11   Most of my users are on 6s and 6Ss,

01:26:13   so like that's what I should be testing on.

01:26:15   But still, like how do you do this

01:26:16   without it taking 100 hours or 80 hours

01:26:18   or 60, you know, these massive time spans?

01:26:21   So the other way to do it would be,

01:26:23   run it for a while, run it overnight,

01:26:26   look at the battery percentage when you start,

01:26:28   and then in the morning, look at the battery percentage

01:26:30   when it's ending, and then just extrapolate,

01:26:32   you can be like, well, if it took eight hours

01:26:34   to go from 80% to 60%, then battery life would be X

01:26:38   if it had a whole charge.

01:26:40   That's an okay way to do it.

01:26:41   It isn't the best, 'cause the percentage meter

01:26:43   isn't always exactly accurate.

01:26:44   - Battery life is not linear.

01:26:46   - Exactly, so it isn't the best way to do it,

01:26:48   but it can at least give you a reasonable approximation

01:26:51   in a short amount of time.

01:26:53   One of the problems with that is that it's just imprecise.

01:26:56   You're using this two-digit percentage.

01:26:58   There's nothing you can do with that that's that precise.

01:27:01   It took the six plus, it took it an hour

01:27:05   to move one percentage point

01:27:07   when I was watching it earlier today.

01:27:09   And by the way, if you want to actually look at the screen,

01:27:12   you're turning the screen on to check the battery level.

01:27:15   So that's kind of messing with the data.

01:27:17   You're tarnishing the data

01:27:18   'cause you're turning the screen on.

01:27:19   And then all the things that iOS does

01:27:21   when the screen turns on, running background refreshes,

01:27:23   doing system checks, whatever, that's all happening

01:27:25   every time you have to even check the level.

01:27:27   So you don't wanna be checking it very often,

01:27:29   but if it takes like an hour to move one percentage point,

01:27:33   then that's very imprecise.

01:27:35   So my idea was, let me dive into the APIs

01:27:39   and try to get a more precise,

01:27:41   try to get like the milliamp hour rating for the battery,

01:27:43   like what is a more precise charge level?

01:27:46   There is an API on UI device called battery level

01:27:49   or something like that, but it only updates

01:27:52   in 5% increments, so that's even less precise

01:27:55   than looking at the screen and just checking that.

01:27:58   So I'm like, let me just find something,

01:27:59   is there anything else that can read this?

01:28:01   Even, I'll use a private API, because I don't,

01:28:04   I'll just make a little quick test app

01:28:06   to show me the charge level on the phone.

01:28:08   I don't need to submit it to the store,

01:28:09   I can use a private API, fine.

01:28:11   Well, it turns out the private API requires you

01:28:13   to have the IO kit dilib file,

01:28:16   the framework dynamic library file, you need to have the binary from a device. How do I

01:28:23   get an IO kit dilib from a modern device? And there are a few online that are all 32-bit.

01:28:31   You can't build 32-bit apps with any recent version of Xcode. And I'm like, "Well,

01:28:34   I'm not going to install Snow Leopard or whatever." That's right, try to do the

01:28:38   old version route there. That's too much work. I'm not going to do that. All right.

01:28:41   So what else can I do? What's faster? And it turns out you can browse the file system

01:28:45   on an iOS device if you have a jailbroken phone. You can browse the file system and

01:28:50   pull arbitrary stuff off of it. Phone View works for a lot of stuff without jailbreaking,

01:28:54   but it couldn't get to the system directory that would have these frameworks in it. So

01:28:58   I'm like, "Okay, I guess I need to jailbreak something. I'll take one of these, I'll take

01:29:01   one of my iPhone 6s from last year that's been sitting in a door discharged, charge

01:29:05   it up, jailbreak it, and get this file off of it so I can make an app that would do this

01:29:09   that would actually run in 64-bit mode." The process of jailbreaking today, so I should

01:29:14   point out the only time I've ever jailbroken before was the iPhone 1. Shortly after it

01:29:19   came out there was a site called I think it was jailbreakme.com or something like that

01:29:23   where it was like literally like a safari exploit that would just you'd visit a website

01:29:27   and tap a button and it would jailbreak your phone for you. Total security hole like that's

01:29:32   it's terrible that was possible and it's terrible whenever that is possible again if it ever

01:29:36   happens again like that is a terrible thing that Apple should definitely always close

01:29:39   up because that's a horrible hole. But I did it for like you know I ran it for like a day

01:29:44   and I loaded my phone with garbage and I'm like,

01:29:45   you know what, this is stupid.

01:29:47   My phone works worse now, everything's garbagey,

01:29:50   like there's nothing in here that I actually need.

01:29:51   So I restored my phone like two days later.

01:29:54   It was so quick, I'm like, you know, this is stupid.

01:29:56   And I've never jailbreak since then.

01:29:57   But the fact is it's very, very popular.

01:30:00   Tons of, like literally like probably tens of millions

01:30:03   of people jailbreak it.

01:30:04   It is a significant slice of the iOS user base

01:30:08   that is jailbroken.

01:30:09   It is not a small percentage, it is not a fringe thing,

01:30:11   it is a very, very common thing.

01:30:13   I figure the tools must be,

01:30:14   let me see what it's like today.

01:30:15   So the procedure of jailbreaking today

01:30:18   is you have to find a device

01:30:19   that doesn't have anything newer than iOS 902 on it.

01:30:24   So I had to like, oh, this one in my drawer

01:30:26   happened to be 901, okay, I'll use that one.

01:30:29   Boot that up and try to search for how to jailbreak a phone.

01:30:33   It's like, this is basically like saying

01:30:35   how do I download Photoshop?

01:30:36   It's like, you know everything you get's gonna be a scam

01:30:39   of some kind.

01:30:41   It's gonna be malware, it's gonna be ads,

01:30:42   it's gonna be garbage, you're gonna find all this

01:30:44   garbage stuff.

01:30:45   And so, Searching for How to Jailbreak actually was

01:30:47   very easy, there's this thing called the Pangoo,

01:30:49   Pango Jailbreak, one of those.

01:30:51   My impression of this, as somebody who doesn't know

01:30:53   anything about this, is that the way you jailbreak

01:30:56   is that you basically download a closed source

01:30:59   application from a Chinese hacking group that's

01:31:01   unsigned binary and you tell, and you force your

01:31:04   Mac to run it.

01:31:05   That's how you jailbreak.

01:31:08   You plug your phone in, you run this arbitrary code

01:31:11   from a Chinese hacking group on your Mac.

01:31:13   - That sounds safe.

01:31:14   - I did this on my laptop I don't care about.

01:31:16   'Cause there's no way I'm running it on my real computer.

01:31:18   - Now it's infected your entire network.

01:31:20   But on the bright side, your Apple TV won't have a number

01:31:22   after its name anymore.

01:31:23   (laughing)

01:31:25   'Cause while this malware wanders through your network,

01:31:28   it'll fix that just on a drive-by.

01:31:30   - That's a common courtesy, yes.

01:31:32   (laughing)

01:31:33   So anyway, so here I am, I'm like gritting my teeth,

01:31:37   like shit, I really need to be doing this,

01:31:39   but like, okay, I'll run it.

01:31:41   On the same laptop, if I buy any hardware that requires some kind of Java installer,

01:31:46   I run that on this laptop as well.

01:31:49   It's like my garbage.

01:31:51   Anything that requires software that I don't want anywhere near my real computer, I run

01:31:53   on this thing.

01:31:54   So the homepage for your web browser on that computer is now Yahoo, right?

01:31:58   Because you installed Java.

01:31:59   Yeah, and there's a toolbar.

01:32:02   Anyway, so yeah, I ran it, and it turns out it's stupid easy.

01:32:07   So anyway, to make a long story short,

01:32:09   I jailbreak this phone, it boots up,

01:32:11   I go to Cydia, which is, whoo, the UI for Cydia,

01:32:16   it's like when the App Store first launched.

01:32:21   People just put random parameters into UI kit widgets

01:32:24   and just spewed them all over the screen.

01:32:26   That's Cydia, still, today.

01:32:29   Like, it was, I posted a screenshot in the relay Slack,

01:32:33   I'm like, I can't believe this is even real.

01:32:34   Like this is how this app actually looks today.

01:32:38   But anyway, sorry Jailbreakers, wow.

01:32:43   You have some improvement opportunities in corporate speak,

01:32:47   maybe a coaching opportunity.

01:32:48   - Oh my God.

01:32:49   - We'll put it in the parking lot for now.

01:32:50   But long story short, the file's not there.

01:32:53   And I install these stupid apps to tell me,

01:32:55   and like the dial-up is just not there.

01:32:57   And so I'm like, well maybe,

01:32:59   people say oh things change in iOS 9,

01:33:01   maybe things will be better on an older version,

01:33:03   but I still need 64 bits.

01:33:04   I'm like, "All right, let me pull out TIFF's old 5S,

01:33:06   which has been powered off in the closet for two years.

01:33:10   Pull that out, it's still running iOS 7."

01:33:12   Great, I jailbreak that with another app

01:33:15   from the Pangu hackers that runs

01:33:17   the Cyphen App running two of their apps on this laptop.

01:33:21   'Cause it's a different app to jailbreak iOS 7.

01:33:24   Run that, turns out not there either.

01:33:26   And it turns out that apparently,

01:33:28   dial-ups have not existed on iOS for quite some time

01:33:30   because they lump them all into one giant blob

01:33:33   and they kind of load out of that.

01:33:34   And if there's like this cache, you can try to hack,

01:33:37   but it doesn't really work.

01:33:38   So I'm like, this whole thing failed.

01:33:40   I'm just like, forget it.

01:33:41   I found one jailbreak app, after much searching,

01:33:45   I found one jailbreak app in the interesting

01:33:48   Cydia app quote store,

01:33:50   where it would display the milliamp hours

01:33:53   of the battery for me.

01:33:54   I'm like, all right, good enough.

01:33:56   I'll just run that and I put that on the iPhone 6.

01:34:00   Now I have an iPhone 6 that has this interesting app

01:34:04   from this interesting app store on it

01:34:06   that will show me the milliamp hour ratings.

01:34:08   And now I can at least launch the app at start,

01:34:10   broaden my testing, 12 hours later, open the app again,

01:34:14   and see what the milliamp hour level is of the battery,

01:34:17   and do basically a better, more precise version

01:34:20   of the percentage interpolation,

01:34:22   and have faster turnaround time.

01:34:25   That's my incredibly long, boring story

01:34:26   about jailbreaking today,

01:34:27   and I would not recommend this to anybody.

01:34:29   This is, if anybody knows an easier way,

01:34:32   just using private APIs that I could just do in development

01:34:35   that wouldn't involve jailbreaking, please let me know.

01:34:38   But yeah, I don't know.

01:34:40   - Yeah, I haven't jailbroken since I think my 3GS.

01:34:43   And I did it at the time for SP settings,

01:34:46   which basically was Control Center

01:34:48   long before Control Center existed.

01:34:50   And it was pretty magical.

01:34:53   But even then, I think I only had my phone jailbroken

01:34:56   for like a couple of months or something like that

01:34:58   because it just felt gross to me.

01:35:02   And I wasn't really gaining anything

01:35:04   that justified all the icky feelings I had

01:35:07   by going through that whole process.

01:35:09   So I can understand both why you did it

01:35:13   and why you hated every moment of it.

01:35:14   But it's an interesting story, to say the least.

01:35:17   The lengths that we go to just to--

01:35:19   I mean, I think so.

01:35:20   It's the lengths that a good developer will go to

01:35:23   to try to figure something out.

01:35:25   - Again, it's just like one more thing.

01:35:26   It's like if they were just an official API,

01:35:28   even or a developer tool that you could enable on the phone,

01:35:32   'cause the problem is even if they put it into Xcode,

01:35:35   you can't run it while connecting 'cause it'll charge.

01:35:38   And there's no Wi-Fi debugging yet,

01:35:40   and I know there's kind of some support for that

01:35:42   to make the watch work, but it's not for phones yet.

01:35:45   So there's just like, there's something,

01:35:48   there are so many failures here that led me to do this,

01:35:51   and maybe the answer is I should just not care this much,

01:35:54   which is a terrible answer,

01:35:55   'cause it's like, how does Apple manage their battery usage?

01:35:58   They probably have tools to tell them this kind of stuff

01:36:01   while they're developing core iOS functionality

01:36:03   and iOS apps, like I assume people inside Apple

01:36:07   have a way to know, am I making battery life better or worse

01:36:10   with this change I'm making to this app?

01:36:12   That is probably easier than jailbreaking their phones

01:36:14   and running the Cydia App Quotes store.

01:36:16   In summary, please Apple, break down some of these walls,

01:36:20   where it makes sense.

01:36:21   - All right, titles.

01:36:24   I think Saltine Fiend has to win.

01:36:27   That's pretty...

01:36:28   No.

01:36:29   Nothing in this show was about that.

01:36:30   The whole first four minutes of the show were about that.

01:36:33   Oh yeah, totally.

01:36:34   I really need to put some sort of Syracuse County prevention on here.

01:36:38   They'll just use Unicode.

01:36:40   You can't stop them because JavaScript doesn't understand text.

01:36:43   It doesn't understand numbers either.

01:36:44   Try going above 53 bits.

01:36:45   Moving on.

01:36:46   Moving on.

01:36:47   Your wonderful language.

01:36:48   Did you see the Trump programming language?

01:36:50   No.

01:36:51   No?

01:36:52   "Only uses integers because Trump doesn't do anything halfway."

01:36:55   [laughter]

01:36:56   All right, I put TrumpScript. I think TrumpScript is the one I saw. Yeah. "All numbers are

01:37:02   strictly greater than one million."

01:37:03   [laughter]

01:37:06   There are no import statements allowed. All code has to be homegrown.

01:37:10   "Making Python great again." Oh, God. This is magnificent. What about, "I like to punch

01:37:17   the monkey better than this"?

01:37:18   Telling you saltine fiend. It's sure it's cool. It's funny. No, you said it. I

01:37:23   Think I've discussed this whole team the thing on this show haven't I in the past I didn't think so

01:37:30   I don't think so. No, I think remember when we were talking about super taster stuff

01:37:34   I know we've talked about super tasters of super taste like

01:37:36   That's why I'm able to enjoy a good saltine because I can I can get the every other bit

01:37:41   Everyone else tastes like he's a salty cardboard

01:37:43   Especially if they're stale

01:37:44   but there are subtle nuances to the flavor of salty and they can be enjoyed by people with

01:37:48   Very sensitive taste buds the wheat thin is so so is far superior. No, it's not larger and less portable pastures

01:37:54   Casey you're like the master of like junk food. Like how do you not love wheat thins? Wheat thins are not great

01:38:00   They're not terrible. They're not great. They're cardboardy stale ones

01:38:03   Stale versions of any cracker or chip are cardboardy

01:38:07   But wheat thins are wheat thins are like they are the Pringles of the cracker world in that they are just compressed sawdust

01:38:14   Oh Pringles are magnificent though. No Pringles are compressed sawdust and sour. So are wheat thins

01:38:20   I'm pretty sure so I mean like formulation wise you are right that Pringles are not like slices of potatoes

01:38:26   They're like, you know, they're compressed

01:38:28   Basically, but I mean that's like that's how flour works in every wheat based cracker. No. No, you don't like here's the difference

01:38:35   you don't just take like the idea with Pringles is that there is like a dehydrated potatoes that is in powder form that is merely

01:38:42   Pressed to make it into chip shape

01:38:45   It's not as if you take flour and water and mix them to make a dough and like, you know

01:38:49   Because that's what a cracker is. Saltines are legit dough that is cooked. Right? Right. They're a cracker, right?

01:38:54   I'm pretty sure wheat thins are

01:38:56   Dehydrated powdery crap that is compressed into cracker shape and then covered with salt and grease

01:39:02   - I don't think it's true because they're not

01:39:04   of uniform shape.

01:39:05   - Maybe they do cook them.

01:39:07   - There is an edge and you can, like some of them

01:39:10   will have a slight curl down on one side

01:39:12   where it looks like, and the part that curls down

01:39:15   is slightly burnt compared to the rest of the cracker.

01:39:17   And some of them occasionally will have a ripple also.

01:39:19   So I do think they're actually baking these

01:39:21   in big sheets and then cutting them.

01:39:23   - As with any industrial food, we probably don't wanna know

01:39:26   how these things are actually made.

01:39:27   - You're probably right. - Probably not.

01:39:30   - I love that you think that your saltines

01:39:32   are somehow made in a better way than Wheat Thins.

01:39:34   - I do think that, I really do believe that.

01:39:36   - That's, I really doubt it.

01:39:38   - The bubbles on top, can't fake that.

01:39:41   (beep)