150: A Mac Pro in Every Pot


00:00:00   But I did see Star Wars last night, we can talk about that for a while.

00:00:03   Yeah, it's old news.

00:00:04   Aw, man, I missed my chance.

00:00:06   Now that Marco's seen it, it's old news.

00:00:08   It's all downhill from there.

00:00:10   Do you want to do some follow-up?

00:00:12   Sure, we actually have some.

00:00:14   One person who's not...

00:00:17   I don't know if this person lives in Dubai or just knows about the Apple Store in Dubai,

00:00:21   but I'm trying to think of a reason why this person is not like every single person in

00:00:25   the United States on vacation and not sending us any follow-up. But in episode

00:00:31   149 we talked about the foliage walls and the Apple model store things from

00:00:37   the 60 minutes television show. They showed like oh here's a store where we

00:00:42   try out all the different ideas we have for Apple stores and they have this one

00:00:45   wall of the store that had plants like real living plants just sort of

00:00:48   cascading down the wall and I thought that would be funny if they actually put

00:00:50   that in a store. Well apparently they have it's just goes to show that

00:00:54   that everything they show in 60 minutes has to be something that already exists, so that

00:00:57   no secrets are revealed.

00:00:59   The Apple Store in Dubai, they have a foliage wall.

00:01:02   So there you go.

00:01:03   That's super exciting.

00:01:04   That is a definite reason to visit there.

00:01:07   To just pet the foliage wall.

00:01:09   I wonder how that would, like, I mean I guess they have to have people keeping the plants

00:01:12   alive, but, like, why don't we get foliage?

00:01:15   If it's a good idea, why isn't it a good idea everywhere?

00:01:18   Why is it only a good idea in the desert?

00:01:19   I don't know.

00:01:21   Beats me.

00:01:24   It struck me as a little weird, although I really did like—and I think, Jon, you had

00:01:27   briefly mentioned this when we talked about it—I really liked the display case for all

00:01:34   the cases, the iPhone cases, where the case is on the outside of what ends up being a

00:01:40   drawer.

00:01:41   So you grab the case and pull the case, and then there's a drawer of these cases behind

00:01:46   it.

00:01:47   That was a terrible word picture, but hopefully that makes sense.

00:01:49   I thought that was really clever, and I don't recall having ever seen that before.

00:01:52   did write in, I misplaced their email or maybe it was a tweet, and said that those pull-out

00:01:57   drawer things actually exist in stores too. So basically there's nothing in 60 Minutes

00:02:00   that they showed you that doesn't already exist in an Apple Store, which is not surprising.

00:02:05   Not surprising, but a little bit sad. That's okay, though. All right, so any other follow-up

00:02:10   we need to talk about? That's it, everyone's still on vacation, including us. So not only

00:02:14   California, but everyone is on vacation. Well, California's always on vacation. That is true.

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00:04:13   So the Christmas time has come and passed, and Casey has some new toys, ladies and gentlemen.

00:04:20   It's exciting.

00:04:21   So we have talked about the new Apple TV.

00:04:27   I now have a new Apple TV.

00:04:30   And now I will make everyone sit here and listen to my oh-so-outdated thoughts about

00:04:34   the Apple TV.

00:04:35   That's all right.

00:04:36   I'll talk about the Mac Pro later, so I'll get you back.

00:04:38   Oh, God.

00:04:39   serious, then I will happily forego the Apple TV talk, if that means you will forego the

00:04:44   Mac Pro talk.

00:04:45   Well, I have to tell you about the new Mac Pro I got.

00:04:47   Oh, dear God, I hope you're kidding. I don't have any alcohol nearby, so this is going

00:04:50   to be a long night for me. Well, on a happier note, set up via Bluetooth on my new Apple

00:04:55   TV. Flawless. No issues whatsoever. So let's just be a lesson, children, that you never

00:05:01   actually do want to have the fear of missing out that I have a chronic case of, and you

00:05:05   do actually want to wait just a little bit to get something new.

00:05:08   Because I had no problems with Bluetooth setup.

00:05:11   I had no real problems with the remote app.

00:05:16   Although it took me a minute to realize that I needed to do

00:05:19   the software update in order to get it, if memory serves.

00:05:24   Speaking of the software update, at 7 o'clock--

00:05:26   I think this was Christmas Day, 7 o'clock in the evening

00:05:28   on Christmas Day.

00:05:28   Flawless.

00:05:29   No issues.

00:05:31   I connected via Ethernet, which might have made things a lot

00:05:34   easier, but that was really nice.

00:05:37   Oh, that's what it was.

00:05:37   It wasn't that the software update screwed me up for the

00:05:39   remote app.

00:05:40   I actually did take notes.

00:05:41   I just didn't read far enough.

00:05:42   It took me a while to remember that the remote app is paired

00:05:48   to your home sharing account.

00:05:51   And I had not yet set up my home sharing account in the

00:05:55   Apple TV, even after I'd done the update and all that.

00:05:57   So for the life of me, I couldn't understand why the

00:05:59   remote app wouldn't see the Apple TV.

00:06:01   And then I forget how I figured it out.

00:06:02   But somehow or another I realized, oh, no, I need to sign into home sharing.

00:06:07   And so once I did that, that worked no problem, which was really nice.

00:06:11   The control receiver, or the remote in general, having a Bluetooth remote is wonderful.

00:06:18   I've learned that from the Fire TV Stick.

00:06:21   But it's really great having that Bluetooth remote on the Apple TV as well.

00:06:24   I also really, really liked, and maybe we talked about this and I just had a brain fart

00:06:29   or something, but I really liked that it gave me the option of instead of controlling volume

00:06:36   on my TV via HDMI CEC or whatever magic it uses, I could program an IR remote that it

00:06:43   would use, it would emit that same IR to change a different thing's volume, which is exactly

00:06:50   what I needed to do because I have my receiver doing the speakers and all that.

00:06:54   And so I had the remote learn my receiver's IR profile, or whatever you want to call it.

00:07:00   And that worked no problem.

00:07:01   And so now the volume controls the receiver, which is really awesome.

00:07:04   I didn't even know that was a thing.

00:07:05   I didn't like that I had no idea how much battery power the remote has.

00:07:11   And at some point or another I saw some dialogue or something that said, "Oh, we'll tell you

00:07:15   when the remote needs charging," which is an Apple thing to do, and that's fine.

00:07:19   But it was weird that I couldn't even see it when I went digging into the remote settings

00:07:22   screens.

00:07:23   I didn't like and I don't like that there's no native Spotify app.

00:07:26   Yes, I am aware that there is such a thing as AirPlay.

00:07:31   That is what I've been doing with my Apple TV for a long time now.

00:07:33   But it seems to me like there's no reason why I couldn't select songs or do whatever

00:07:37   in a native app.

00:07:40   Or just have some sort of scenario wherein the Spotify app on my phone controls an instance

00:07:47   of it on the TV.

00:07:49   that's the way Spotify works, is I can control the playback from my computer from the Spotify

00:07:55   app on my phone. And it's kind of like the remote app works. And it's really, really

00:07:59   awesome. And I'd like to not have to have my phone be beaming all that data to the Apple

00:08:04   TV when it could just do that on its own. And on a final note, surprising precisely

00:08:11   no one, oh my God, you guys, Plex is so good. It's so good. It's worth the cost of admission

00:08:16   just for Plex. But to that end, I have like four apps on this thing. I have Plex, I have

00:08:21   Netflix, I think I put the ESPN app on there, and I think that might be it. And so I'm not

00:08:27   really seeing what's so great about the App Store yet, with the exception of Plex of course.

00:08:32   But there's been no other killer app that I've thought to myself, "Man, I really, really,

00:08:36   really want to download whatever."

00:08:38   Well, to be fair, I mean like the kind of device that it is, where this is like this

00:08:43   this TV-connected box, I mean, how many apps

00:08:46   do most people really use in that kind of context?

00:08:49   I mean, to me, it is useful to have a large selection

00:08:52   of apps, but to any one person, any one user of this device,

00:08:57   it might only ever use two to four apps,

00:09:00   and that might be perfectly fine enough for them.

00:09:03   For you, it might be Plex and Netflix.

00:09:06   For me, it might be a game and Netflix,

00:09:11   and maybe, I probably won't use Plex,

00:09:13   I might, you know, I will use the iTunes store stuff,

00:09:16   and then maybe down the road I might get HBO Now,

00:09:19   go whichever one is one that doesn't use cable.

00:09:22   That, you know, one of those, like, you know,

00:09:23   it's like, it's the kind of thing,

00:09:24   and if everything works well, which is still debatable,

00:09:29   but if everything works well, then I think that's enough.

00:09:32   You know, you don't need, it isn't a phone,

00:09:35   you know, you don't need to be doing

00:09:37   tons of different apps all the time on your TV.

00:09:39   I think most people are gonna pick like three or four,

00:09:41   at most, you know?

00:09:42   So wouldn't it be a good enough device

00:09:45   and a valuable purchase,

00:09:46   even if you never use any other apps for it

00:09:49   than what you use now?

00:09:50   - I think you're absolutely right.

00:09:51   And you know, as you were talking,

00:09:52   I was thinking to myself, well, why am I,

00:09:54   I don't know, I'm not bummed out,

00:09:56   but I can't think of a better way to describe it,

00:09:57   but why am I a little disappointed

00:09:59   that I don't have 305 apps on this thing

00:10:02   that I was really excited about?

00:10:04   And you know what I think a part of it is,

00:10:05   is that it looks so paltry and silly

00:10:08   compared to the prior-gen Apple TV, which had, like, what is it, 40 or 50 apps and new

00:10:14   ones just spawning like rabbits constantly? But to be fair, you're exactly right that

00:10:20   I really never used any of those. And so in the end of the day, it was really clutter.

00:10:24   But because it feels like I have fewer things now, it feels worse, even though in reality

00:10:31   it's actually probably a lot better. You should put some other, like, sort of staples

00:10:36   on there like I think you should probably put the YouTube app on there and maybe does

00:10:40   Amazon have like free video maybe Amazon video one if they have some things for free or if

00:10:44   you have Amazon Prime?

00:10:45   No I don't think there is an Amazon video app there that's kind of the whole point of

00:10:49   that whole thing.

00:10:50   No?

00:10:51   I used the Siri thing recently where I I think you have to say show me I don't know it sounds

00:10:56   so dumb to say show me but I said show me and then spoke a movie title and I was impressed

00:11:00   by two things.

00:11:01   that it actually transcribed what I was saying as I spoke it.

00:11:05   Three things.

00:11:06   Two, that it properly title-cased the title of the movie in real time as I spoke it.

00:11:13   Wait, which proper title casing?

00:11:16   Just the regular one.

00:11:18   So did it capitalize prepositions and articles in the middle of the title and stuff like

00:11:23   that?

00:11:24   It doesn't matter.

00:11:25   My son wanted to see The Maze Runner, so all those words are capped.

00:11:27   I said show me the Maze Runner and the was capital, Maze was capital, and you know in real time as it spatted out

00:11:33   So that was impressive and three it gave me a bunch of options for

00:11:37   Where to watch it one of which was because I was if I had done it

00:11:41   Let me put it this way if I had done it with the old Apple TV

00:11:44   I would have been like we don't have the Maze Runner

00:11:46   So let me just look to see if it's available on iTunes and either buy it or rent it based on how likely I think

00:11:50   We as a household are to want to watch this again

00:11:53   But instead I said show me the maze runner and I put it down there as an option and I clicked on it

00:11:59   And it was available on HBO go

00:12:01   So I just played it for free

00:12:02   and so that's that's a pretty flawless victory for the new Apple TV over the old one because

00:12:07   It took less time because it just picked up to the remote and spoken to it

00:12:10   It did the right thing and it let me watch for free, you know, cuz I already pay for HBO

00:12:14   It didn't have to go rent it from iTunes. So thumbs up there

00:12:18   Yeah, something I haven't tried, but I'd really like to and I just didn't think about it until you said that is, you know,

00:12:25   can I

00:12:26   get into my Plex library through Siri from like the home screen and I believe there's APIs that allow that to happen

00:12:33   But I don't have the faintest idea whether or not Plex supports it. Yeah, I had some Plex a couple run-ins with Plex

00:12:39   I was trying to watch I forget I was watching trying to watch something that I that I had

00:12:45   available in many different ways and my TV due to weirdness of

00:12:49   HDMI and

00:12:52   misguided attempts at copy protection if I play through the DLNA

00:12:55   Client on my television very often it only wants to output like stereo down to my receiver

00:13:00   It won't even though it'll be fed 5.1 from my DLNA server in the basement

00:13:05   That 5.1 goes into my television

00:13:08   But it never gets to leave what comes out the back of it instead is like even though it's on the audio return channel

00:13:13   But anyway, I fought with it for a while.

00:13:14   And like bottom line is, if it goes,

00:13:16   if I have my, the television itself,

00:13:18   the smart TV feature do it,

00:13:20   sometimes I don't get the high quality audio.

00:13:21   So I'm like, well, this video has high quality 5.1 audio.

00:13:25   I want to get that directly.

00:13:26   But I didn't want to turn on the PlayStation,

00:13:27   which also would have worked because it's noisy.

00:13:28   So I said, it's time for the Apple TV to do it.

00:13:31   And then I did like a search,

00:13:32   like is there a simple DLNA client for Apple TV?

00:13:35   And there are a bunch of them, but I said,

00:13:36   you know what, let me try Plex.

00:13:37   'Cause I have the Plex server set up on Synology.

00:13:40   So I did, and the thing was there.

00:13:42   And for whatever reason, it just wouldn't play

00:13:45   off of the Synology.

00:13:46   I don't know if the Synology couldn't transcode it

00:13:48   'cause it was too high a bit rate

00:13:50   or didn't understand the codec or something.

00:13:53   But then I remembered like I have Plex all over the place.

00:13:55   So I just started Plex on my wife's new iMac,

00:13:58   pointed it at the same, you know,

00:13:59   I had already had it set up there.

00:14:01   I just mounted the Synology there.

00:14:03   And my wife's iMac had no problem transcoding it

00:14:05   and I played it from there.

00:14:07   So Plex kind of came through for me there, like halfway.

00:14:11   I mean, it was flexible enough that if it didn't work

00:14:13   off of my NAS, I could just run it

00:14:15   on the much more powerful Mac, and that did work.

00:14:18   So, kind of thumb sideways there.

00:14:20   But anyway, it let me play the video I wanted to play

00:14:24   and the quality I wanted with 5.1

00:14:26   without having to hear a fan, so that's good.

00:14:28   - Yeah, and it's funny because I moved the now old

00:14:32   and busted Apple TV from the family room to the bedroom,

00:14:37   and I had on like MTV Unplugged or something like that

00:14:40   this morning. I forget specifically what it was, but I was...

00:14:43   - I hope it was the Alice in Chains. That's the best one.

00:14:44   - No, I don't think I have that one. I'm sure whatever one it was you would judge me for,

00:14:48   and we don't need to go into that. We'll save that for the after show.

00:14:51   - Many of them are very good, including the seal one that you gave me that I don't think

00:14:54   is available legally anywhere. - I believe that's right. And that was one

00:14:58   of them that we watched. It was an MTV Unplugged morning. Maybe we can argue about that in

00:15:02   the after show, since that appears to be what we do these days.

00:15:04   - I mean, everyone loves the Nirvana one, and the Nirvana one is very good, but I think

00:15:08   the Alice in Chains one is better.

00:15:09   Yeah, I feel like I've heard it at some point, but not any time recently, so I should take

00:15:14   a note to listen to that again.

00:15:17   But anyway, so I was trying to--the point of the matter is, I was trying to play Plex

00:15:20   from--onto the old Apple TV, which was wired via Ethernet, now is Wi-Fi, and is the way

00:15:30   the crow flies, so to speak, through the house.

00:15:33   like 15 to 20 feet away from my airport extreme.

00:15:39   Now granted that's through like two or three walls.

00:15:42   And oh my god, the new Apple TV, I don't know if it's because of Ethernet, I don't know

00:15:46   if it's because I'm not doing AirPlay hop.

00:15:49   I'm sure it's a combination of both, but it was so much nicer watching this stuff on the

00:15:55   new Apple TV than it was air playing from the Plex app on the old Apple TV.

00:15:59   Anyway, but so yeah, I'd say at least one thumb probably two thumbs up for the new Apple TV

00:16:05   The play the Plex experience just is everything to me and it's wonderful. I mean, there's a couple of minor issues

00:16:11   I have here and there but but overall really really like it

00:16:14   Do you like the I think the Plex UI on Apple TV looks plain to me

00:16:18   Like I know I'm Plex you can pick like a background for the things then they have all these

00:16:22   You know background images that people have made and I remember the the Mac Plex client

00:16:28   Had all these fancy backgrounds and the UI looked all different the Apple TV one

00:16:31   It's kind of boring especially if you view by folder I use Plex by the way to watch harmy's do specialized editions

00:16:36   My parents wanted to see the the first three Star Wars movies before going to see the seventh

00:16:41   Not not the first three episode one two and three guys

00:16:45   And new hope Empire and Jedi and I wanted to show him harmony. It was the same situation

00:16:50   I could play it off my PlayStation, but then you'd have to hear the PlayStation fan

00:16:55   so and I wanted to get all you know that the multi-channel sound and everything and

00:17:00   So Plex to the rescue again, it could it could play them and it played them correctly and I didn't have to hear a fan

00:17:07   But when you view by folder went into my little Star Wars folder and navigated to it

00:17:11   it was kind of boring looking it was just like a list of words and

00:17:13   You know a cover art off to the left

00:17:16   I don't know. I I just expected Plex to be fancier like not that I demand it to be fancy. But I

00:17:23   I don't know. It seemed to be not up to the standards of the other Plex clients I can remember.

00:17:28   Same thing with the PlayStation 4 client, by the way, but that's the least of my concerns.

00:17:32   If it just gets to the video and plays it, I'm happy. So, uh, Plex is rising in esteem in this household, let's say.

00:17:38   [Laughter]

00:17:39   No, I agree with you. I think that the UI is good. I would not say it's great.

00:17:43   And I think it could definitely use some massaging here and there.

00:17:47   However, it is so much a better experience

00:17:50   than having to have some like iOS device

00:17:52   sitting around air playing everything

00:17:54   that even with the world's ugliest UI,

00:17:57   it could still in many ways do no wrong in my book

00:18:00   because oh my goodness, it's so nice having that natively

00:18:04   on the Apple TV now.

00:18:05   - You should share your Plex library with me.

00:18:07   - I would be happy to, I should do that.

00:18:09   Okay, or both of you.

00:18:12   - I don't think I can share it with you

00:18:13   is my mass is not exposed to the internet at all.

00:18:18   So I don't think I can share with you,

00:18:19   but that doesn't matter.

00:18:20   I just want to get your stuff.

00:18:21   - Are you running Plex on your Synology?

00:18:23   - Yeah.

00:18:24   - Really?

00:18:25   - You can do that?

00:18:26   - Well, yeah, you can,

00:18:27   but I found it was,

00:18:28   whenever I tried to transcode anything live,

00:18:30   it was a disaster.

00:18:31   - Well, that's what I was saying.

00:18:32   I couldn't watch the,

00:18:34   one of the things I wanted to watch just didn't play at all

00:18:36   and I had to use the iMac,

00:18:37   but Harmony Specialized Edition's played fine.

00:18:40   - Hmm.

00:18:41   You know, I think what it might be is if you have it formatted,

00:18:43   it formatted as like, I'm gonna get this wrong, video nerds, I apologize, but if you have

00:18:47   it in some Apple friendly format, let me just be vague.

00:18:49   No, I don't, I do not pre-transcode anything like so. Whatever I downloaded the harmies

00:18:55   as, that's what they are. I refuse to like throw them into Handbrake and reconvert them

00:18:58   because then you're going double lossless, right? So if it won't play exactly as it was

00:19:02   downloaded, then I find something else to play.

00:19:05   Completely agree. I've lamented in the past that this is, the technology that we all have,

00:19:09   as an 1813+ does not have a quick enough processor to do transcoding.

00:19:14   And a lot of people, and I've complained about this in the past, have said, "Oh, we'll just

00:19:18   transcode everything and make it all in whatever magical Apple format I need."

00:19:22   And I completely agree, Jon.

00:19:23   That's just a bunch of work.

00:19:24   Whether or not you have the double lossy conversion, it's just so much work that I just don't want

00:19:29   to have to do.

00:19:30   Jon Streeter And I found my technology does transcode a

00:19:32   whole bunch of stuff on the fly at a reasonable speed for me.

00:19:35   All it needs to do is be able to keep up with real time, and it can in a lot of cases, but

00:19:39   In other cases it just doesn't matter.

00:19:41   That's why I threw the iMac at it, which, you know, didn't break a sweat, can transcode

00:19:44   anything on the fly because it's super duper fast and makes my Mac Pro feel bad.

00:19:49   And that's why I have my old platter-driven MacBook Pro sitting on constantly.

00:19:54   I probably never used this thing if it wasn't for the fact that it is my Plex server.

00:19:58   So yeah, so I will invite you guys after the fact to share, to see my Plex stuff and so

00:20:05   you can stream all of the things that I have.

00:20:08   - Legally.

00:20:09   - Totally.

00:20:10   Well, I mean, you can only stream it, you can't download it.

00:20:13   I'd like to talk about another gift I got,

00:20:15   but do you wanna talk about something else that's awesome,

00:20:17   or do you want me to just keep on truckin'?

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00:22:17   - All right, so the other thing

00:22:18   that I received this Christmas,

00:22:20   which I know everyone is so excited about the accidental

00:22:22   look at me and humble bragging podcast,

00:22:24   is Erin got me a new RetinaPad Mini.

00:22:28   She got me an iPad Mini 4 with Retina and cellular, and I am really into this device.

00:22:35   I've always loved my iPad Minis.

00:22:39   This is my fourth iPad.

00:22:40   I had the original.

00:22:41   I had the iPad 3, which was the first with the Retina, which is what you are still rocking,

00:22:47   Jon?

00:22:48   Is that right?

00:22:49   Yeah, still.

00:22:50   It's getting long in the tooth, man.

00:22:51   I don't know how long I can keep it up.

00:22:52   It's getting heavy in the tooth.

00:22:53   Yeah, too.

00:22:55   Then I had the original Retina Mini and now the iPad Mini 4.

00:23:02   And the last two, both the Minis have been cellular.

00:23:05   In the last couple of months I've given up on my AT&T Unlimited plan and so now I can

00:23:10   actually tether.

00:23:11   I'm not entirely sure going cellular was the most right choice, but so far I've liked it.

00:23:18   And the Apple SIM is actually pretty cool.

00:23:20   I put a post on my site about some random things that I've discovered with regard

00:23:25   to the Apple SIM, and so you can go check that out if that's interesting to you.

00:23:29   The short, short version is it's a single SIM card that you can use with multiple carriers,

00:23:34   which is really kind of fascinating.

00:23:37   I don't have too much to say about the device other than, why didn't somebody tell me

00:23:41   that this iPad multitasking stuff was really cool?

00:23:43   Like I wish Federico had said something or something like that, because this is kind

00:23:47   of exciting.

00:23:48   - I love that this episode is like,

00:23:50   "Casey discovers after Christmas

00:23:52   "what everyone else in Apple community discovered

00:23:54   "in the fall."

00:23:55   - That's what I've been talking about for months.

00:23:58   - Welcome to October.

00:23:59   - And he saw Star Wars too.

00:24:01   - Yeah, and I saw Star Wars just yesterday,

00:24:03   actually, as we record.

00:24:04   So anyway, I won't go on about this

00:24:06   like I did about the Apple TV,

00:24:08   but suffice to say, it genuinely,

00:24:10   I'm not trying to be funny,

00:24:12   it genuinely changes how you use the device

00:24:16   when you can genuinely do more than one thing at once.

00:24:20   Well, on the old Mini, I could do,

00:24:22   I believe it's slide over,

00:24:23   where you can just slide something in and interact with it,

00:24:25   and then you have to make it go away

00:24:27   because they wouldn't let you do

00:24:29   a full-on two-pane multitasking.

00:24:32   I could do picture-in-picture,

00:24:33   which, by the way, quick aside,

00:24:36   Plex on the iPad actually does support picture-in-picture,

00:24:39   even though it doesn't have the same UI

00:24:41   that everything else on the planet does.

00:24:43   As it turns out, if you just hit the Home button

00:24:45   while you're playing something,

00:24:46   it will automatically kick on picture in picture, which is really awesome.

00:24:51   So anyway, so I really, really have liked having multitasking on it.

00:24:57   And I can't think of any specific thing that I've done that has been amazing, but just

00:25:04   the ability to be able to say, "Hang out in Slack," while catching up on Twitter or what

00:25:10   have you, has been so awesome and genuinely changes.

00:25:14   I know I've said that word like 18 times, but it really does.

00:25:16   It changes the way I think about my iPad, and it makes me feel like even my mini is

00:25:23   so much more capable.

00:25:25   This new mini is so much more capable than the mini that came before it for me.

00:25:30   And I'm really excited to be able to dig into using this a little more, not for work stuff

00:25:35   or anything like that, but just to be more, I don't know, productive or efficient maybe

00:25:40   is the word I'm looking for, while even just goofing off.

00:25:43   And so I'm really stoked with it, really pleased with it.

00:25:46   And so far I'm excited that I got a cellular one.

00:25:51   And I now understand Federico's rage over people, over apps that don't support the two-pane

00:25:57   multitasking, because it is really annoying.

00:26:00   Marco, were you the one who tweeted or retweeted something showing some person saying, "You

00:26:06   know, guys, it doesn't take too many changes to UI window to make it into it."

00:26:10   Like, they had, like, windows?

00:26:12   Yeah, Steve TS did just like a little mock-up, like a working mock-up demo of multiple UI

00:26:18   windows on screen at once with draggable edges and draggable titlebars.

00:26:22   And this is on the iPad, and what they basically had it look like is OS X windows, but with

00:26:25   really big finger-sized widgets for the little stoplight widgets.

00:26:30   And it looked silly, and I'm going to say this is probably not the way you should go,

00:26:34   but people are mad with power now, basically.

00:26:37   Like "Split View?

00:26:38   Wait a second.

00:26:39   Wait a second, the CPU is capable of doing more than things it wants.

00:26:42   I need Windows and I need to arrange for them.

00:26:43   They're just, you know, recreating all, they're recreating my desktop on their iPads, which

00:26:47   is probably not what they want.

00:26:49   They're not ready for that.

00:26:50   But it's, you know, I guess someone could do that.

00:26:54   Maybe Apple would reject it because they're kind of like that, oh, this tries to make

00:26:56   a new, you know, windowing environment or I don't know, I'm sure Apple would find some

00:27:00   way to reject it because like imagine an app.

00:27:02   Yeah, well, there's been a rule forever against apps that try to create their own like desktop

00:27:07   type environments inside themselves to have any kind of like multiple widgets inside of

00:27:11   one central app there.

00:27:13   Like, and it's a very vague rule, but that's been there since the very beginning.

00:27:15   It's like the one that got status board rejected, but then not because it was ridiculous to

00:27:19   reject status board, but like, but definitely making actual windows because I don't even

00:27:23   know how you would, what you, what would you put in those windows?

00:27:26   Like, well, I think it was my, maybe if someone did like a sketching application for the iPad

00:27:30   Pro where it had a bunch of pallets that were like literally just pallets, like Photoshop

00:27:34   palettes, some kind of weird dockable palettes with big finger-sized things on the top of

00:27:38   them. Would Apple reject that because it gives too much flexibility about where you put the

00:27:42   palettes? I don't know, like, it seems like there is, there's something there where people,

00:27:47   somebody is daring enough, because the ability to arrange the palettes the way you want in

00:27:51   Photoshop or any other design application, that's a feature. Like, people have different

00:27:54   tools that they want to use at certain times, and, I mean, it's not that the Mac versions

00:27:59   of these applications are infinitely flexible, you're still kind of stuck with this set of

00:28:02   palette and you can arrange them and make them skinny or wide or whatever but talk to

00:28:07   any designer or watch them work.

00:28:08   People have preferences about what goes where on the screen.

00:28:11   Where is the layers palette?

00:28:12   Where is the history palette?

00:28:13   What's hidden?

00:28:14   What's shown by default?

00:28:15   Is it skinny or wide?

00:28:17   What's docked here and there?

00:28:19   Is it the full screen thing or is it the small window?

00:28:21   These are just options within Photoshop.

00:28:24   If there was an iPad Pro sketching application that gave similar flexibility, people would

00:28:29   use that flexibility because maybe they want...

00:28:31   is the thing that they always go to?

00:28:32   They go to the color well frequently, they change brush sizes frequently, they don't

00:28:36   have like a keyboard to hit the square brackets to make the brush size go up and down.

00:28:39   So being able to sort of arrange their workspace within an application using things that I

00:28:44   guess you kind of not call them windows to avoid getting rejected, but I really hope

00:28:48   Apple wouldn't reject an app like that because I think that's a great idea for, and for all

00:28:52   I know, because I'm not a designer, for all I know there are that perhaps that already

00:28:54   do this, so if that's the case then never mind, it's already been done.

00:28:58   But if not, that's definitely a direction that I think it's safe.

00:29:02   It should be safe to go in that direction with design applications, for example, on

00:29:06   the iPad Pro.

00:29:07   And seeing this multitasking, to bring it back around, just makes me understand that

00:29:13   much more why someone would really like an iPad Pro, despite the fact that I do think

00:29:19   it is just comically large.

00:29:22   I can see how it would be really, really useful to have all that extra screen real estate.

00:29:26   So it's interesting.

00:29:27   But I really, really like the new Retina iPad Mini.

00:29:32   Two thumbs up for that,

00:29:33   two thumbs up for the iPad multitasking.

00:29:35   Really, really been digging it.

00:29:37   - On the iPad Pro being comically large,

00:29:39   I still, as I dwell on this,

00:29:42   I think the problem is that it's not big enough.

00:29:43   Not the problem, not that there's a problem with it per se,

00:29:46   but like the reason it seems so large

00:29:47   is because we are comparing it to like the, you know,

00:29:51   the quote unquote full-size iPad.

00:29:53   If it was really comically large, like as in 21 inch,

00:29:56   No one would be comparing it to, like no one would think,

00:29:59   oh, I'm gonna put this in my backpack.

00:30:00   It would be for designers to work with at their desk.

00:30:03   It's like, why is it even an iPad at that point?

00:30:05   Why aren't you just, why isn't it just a Mac?

00:30:06   Why, you know, well,

00:30:07   'cause you draw on the screen with a pen

00:30:09   and you don't do that with a Mac.

00:30:10   And it's not indirect like a Cintiq

00:30:12   where you got the Mac over here.

00:30:13   You know, like I still feel like it's the direction

00:30:15   we're going in, albeit at this point,

00:30:17   we're going there at a snail's pace

00:30:18   'cause it took this long to get us a stylus

00:30:21   and a slightly larger iPad.

00:30:22   But I think that will solve the problem of,

00:30:25   "Whoa, look at the size of this giant iPad!"

00:30:27   When it, you stop making that comparison

00:30:29   at a certain point.

00:30:30   When it becomes a thing that sits on your desk,

00:30:32   I don't mean that you have to plug it in,

00:30:34   although you could plug it in.

00:30:35   But I mean, I think there have been people

00:30:37   who have made these very large tablet size things

00:30:41   like 21 inches or whatever,

00:30:42   and they just haven't caught on.

00:30:45   I just don't think the software is there for it yet.

00:30:46   But in the same way that I feel like

00:30:49   the iPad Pro features will go downscale,

00:30:51   at some point you can make the iPad Pro even bigger.

00:30:54   Like, why not?

00:30:55   If it becomes a tool for designers,

00:30:58   who wants to design things on something

00:31:00   as puny as an iPad Pro?

00:31:02   Like, why wouldn't you want something bigger?

00:31:04   I think you would, naturally, eventually.

00:31:06   Well, why did they stop making the 17-inch MacBook Pro?

00:31:10   I think that is kind of like--

00:31:14   because the laptop's role is to be portable, right?

00:31:16   And I don't think the iPad's role is necessarily

00:31:18   to be portable, especially for design things,

00:31:21   because they just want to draw on the screen, right?

00:31:22   I think Cintiqs are bigger than that size.

00:31:26   - Well, I think the reason they killed the 17 inch

00:31:29   MacBook Pro is probably because they just weren't selling

00:31:31   enough of them to make it worth continuing to sell.

00:31:34   So a larger iPad than the Pro might have that same problem.

00:31:38   They might, you know, there is a maximum size

00:31:40   above which it is just too specialized

00:31:43   and not enough people will buy it

00:31:45   to make it worth Apple making it.

00:31:46   And for MacBooks, that appears to be 15 inches.

00:31:49   So what is it for iPads?

00:31:50   It might be the iPad Pro size,

00:31:52   that might be bigger, who knows?

00:31:53   - I don't buy into that because I think the generation

00:31:55   that's throwing mice around the room

00:31:56   wants something they're gonna touch.

00:31:58   Like that's why I keep saying the iPad

00:31:59   is the future of computing.

00:32:00   It's not gonna be too specialized.

00:32:01   What's gonna be too specialized

00:32:02   is the PCs that you can't touch.

00:32:04   So Apple is eventually,

00:32:05   for those kids who are throwing those mice

00:32:07   around the computer lab who are in kindergarten now,

00:32:09   when they are 30 years old,

00:32:11   I think they're gonna want a really big touchscreen

00:32:14   somewhere in their house to do the type of stuff

00:32:17   they can't do on their phones, like for sitting down.

00:32:19   Like in the same way that we have an iMac

00:32:21   or our laptops or maybe they'll just stick with laptops.

00:32:24   I don't know.

00:32:24   Like the 17 inch laptop, it's an old form factor

00:32:27   and it's meant to be portable

00:32:28   and a non-portable laptop is called desktop

00:32:30   and we already have that.

00:32:32   Like we have a massive 5K iMac.

00:32:33   Like I don't, one fun thing to think about is

00:32:37   what is the upper size limit on desktop computer screens?

00:32:41   27 inches that like we went up to 30,

00:32:44   is that like the limit?

00:32:46   Or at a certain point it becomes you can't find

00:32:48   like a desk space big enough.

00:32:50   it starts blocking your view out of your home.

00:32:52   And like, it's just, it's just, it's just too darn big.

00:32:55   I have a friend who uses a television,

00:32:56   like people who have a vision problems, you know,

00:32:59   not that it's low resolution, but it's just massive, right?

00:33:02   I guess, you know, maybe VR have sets come

00:33:05   and make all this a moot point.

00:33:07   But anyway, thinking about the sizes screens can be

00:33:11   in the future, I think it's,

00:33:14   there's lots of interesting possibilities.

00:33:16   And I think a lot of our view today is colored by

00:33:19   what we're comparing it to or where we slot it.

00:33:22   You know, that's all just getting back to Casey's thing,

00:33:24   it's comically large.

00:33:25   And like in some respects it is.

00:33:27   It's like the world's biggest iPhone

00:33:29   or it's a comically large iPad.

00:33:31   But in other respects,

00:33:32   it's a comically small laptop screen

00:33:35   detached from a keyboard.

00:33:36   It's a comically small iMac that you can touch, right?

00:33:40   I don't know.

00:33:41   Anyway, that was an aside.

00:33:42   - We are also sponsored this week by Blue Apron.

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00:35:16   Blue Apron, a Better Way to Cook.

00:35:18   All right, so John, you had come up with a topic or theme perhaps for the remainder of

00:35:26   today's episode.

00:35:27   Would you like to introduce that and kind of kick us off?

00:35:29   The last episode of 2015, that means you have a sort of a year-end thing.

00:35:32   You could do a year in review.

00:35:34   You could do predictions for next year.

00:35:37   What I wanted to do was something kind of in between, which is a 2016 wish list with

00:35:43   a set of rules.

00:35:44   Of course, there are rules.

00:35:45   So the first rule is that these are not predictions.

00:35:48   So that gets us entirely out of the game

00:35:50   of trying to predict what is actually going to happen

00:35:52   in 2016, because that's fun to do sometimes.

00:35:55   And it's easy to tell whether you're right

00:35:57   for the most part, but I don't know,

00:36:00   like I'm less interested in predicting what will happen

00:36:03   than in talking about what I would like to happen.

00:36:06   And for stuff that you would like to happen,

00:36:09   you can't pick like blue sky stuff where it's like,

00:36:12   if I could have a pony and a unicorn,

00:36:15   this is what I would want.

00:36:16   So the rules are not predictions and pick things

00:36:19   that are plausible and feasible

00:36:22   and that you wanna see in 2016.

00:36:24   And I guess we'll have to just judge

00:36:25   whether the thing you're asking for is a fantasy

00:36:28   that's never gonna happen

00:36:29   and has to be straightened from the list.

00:36:31   But those are the ground rules.

00:36:33   And I hope you guys did some semblance of homework.

00:36:36   - I have a text file in front of me.

00:36:37   - That sounds serious.

00:36:39   - Does it have more than one thing in it?

00:36:41   - It has 36 lines with text on them.

00:36:43   - Well, including white space.

00:36:45   36 lines.

00:36:46   - All right, and this is, it's not even like top four,

00:36:48   they don't even need to be ordered.

00:36:49   This is an unordered list, UL.

00:36:51   - So you might actually do okay with this, Marco.

00:36:53   - Well, it was very hard for me to do this

00:36:56   in a way that wasn't just predictions.

00:36:58   - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:59   - Like, keeping it to plausible things was fairly easy,

00:37:04   but making it not just a list of what I think will happen,

00:37:07   or what I think is very likely to happen, that is harder,

00:37:10   and I've definitely had a harder time with that.

00:37:13   So my list is a little bit predictive.

00:37:15   And well, to getting away from predictions,

00:37:17   the reason I don't wanna do predictions

00:37:18   is because that allows cynicism in the door.

00:37:20   Because you could say, these dummies are gonna do this

00:37:22   even though they shouldn't.

00:37:23   And this is more just like, what do you want to happen?

00:37:25   Like what, if you could make certain things happen,

00:37:29   and you know, non-magical things,

00:37:31   what do you wanna see in 2016?

00:37:33   And it can be anything tech, I guess.

00:37:34   I mean, we're probably all thinking of Apple stuff,

00:37:36   but realize that it can be anything tech related.

00:37:38   - And honestly, I mean, my list is actually pretty optimistic

00:37:43   or like it isn't a pessimistic or cynical list

00:37:45   because, you know, look, and my list is very,

00:37:48   very Apple focused, I just wasn't really thinking

00:37:51   of other stuff because frankly,

00:37:52   the rest of the tech industry is kind of boring

00:37:54   most of the time, to be honest.

00:37:56   But, you know, for me, the Apple side of it,

00:37:59   I am optimistic simply because I think Apple

00:38:03   in 2015 and 2014 really did a lot of 1.0s.

00:38:08   Like a lot of things are either brand new product lines

00:38:12   or new product sub-lines like the iPad Pro,

00:38:16   or new services like Apple Music and Photo Cloud stuff.

00:38:21   There's a lot of restarts and 1.0s recently,

00:38:26   in this past year.

00:38:27   And so I'm really hoping that 2016 brings

00:38:32   a lot of 1.1s and 2.0s, you know?

00:38:34   Just like a lot of revision, a lot of maybe maturing

00:38:39   of these lines and of these various new products.

00:38:41   you know, just kind of a slow down in brand new cutting edge launches, because Apple's

00:38:46   cutting edge launches have been all over the map in terms of quality and usefulness and

00:38:50   everything. And so to have some time where that can be kind of calmed down and matured

00:38:56   and stabilized and developed further rather than just more and more 1.0s of everything

00:39:03   would be very welcome. And I think that's what will happen, and I hope that's what

00:39:08   will happen. So that is my main theme of my wishes is just stop at the 1.0s for a little

00:39:15   while and just take all these 1.0s forward to their next steps in their growth.

00:39:21   There was a really good, well I didn't finish it, I only had time to read about the first

00:39:25   half, but I think it was Nielle Patel wrote something on The Verge yesterday, I believe

00:39:32   it was. It's entitled "2015 Apple's Year in Beta." And it very much echoes what you just

00:39:39   said, that basically there's been a lot of half-cooked stuff that's been released in

00:39:43   this year, and that's really kind of unfortunate. And I didn't get to the portion which actually

00:39:48   sounds perhaps even more interesting to me, which is "New platform ideas in search of

00:39:54   sticky user behavior." So for example, 3D Touch, which I find I'm using more and more

00:39:59   over time, but I did not have the instant, like, "Oh my god, I'm using this always"

00:40:06   experience that I was kind of expecting to, actually. So we'll link this in the show notes,

00:40:10   but it was a little on the negative side, but I think it was pretty fair, all told.

00:40:15   Yeah, I mean, you know, at this point in Apple's evolution, they are really throwing a lot

00:40:20   more spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, and whether that used to happen more in private

00:40:25   and is now more public, or whether, as I said

00:40:28   in a recent show, I think there's just been a lot

00:40:31   of low-hanging fruit that has all been picked,

00:40:33   and now in order to find the next big thing

00:40:36   or the next success in the business, it's harder.

00:40:41   And the successes are getting smaller, relatively speaking,

00:40:45   and all the low-hanging fruit has already been picked

00:40:48   in a lot of these industries, so it's just getting harder

00:40:50   to find what's next and to find success.

00:40:52   And so we are seeing things that come out that are kind of like, "Eh, really?"

00:40:58   Or things that you're not really sure will work, and many of them don't, and many of

00:41:02   them do.

00:41:03   And it's happening more in public now with Apple than it used to, I think.

00:41:07   Or maybe we're just remembering wrong, I don't know.

00:41:09   But it does seem like we are seeing a lot more things come out of Apple that are not

00:41:14   clear wins from day one.

00:41:16   Obviously you can look back to the past and you can say, "Well, it was never perfect."

00:41:21   And that's true.

00:41:22   But I think if you look at the iPhone 1.0,

00:41:25   or even the early iPods, and many of their earlier

00:41:29   1.0 releases versus today's 1.0 releases,

00:41:33   I think the number of asterisks and downsides in the past

00:41:37   was probably lower than it is today.

00:41:40   And in part that's because they are a bigger company.

00:41:43   I do think it has to do in part

00:41:45   with Steve not being there anymore.

00:41:47   And I think in part it is just because

00:41:48   the products now are more complicated.

00:41:49   as I just said, like, it's more challenging now to find new territory that will be a success.

00:41:55   Yeah, from this piece that I was talking about, this is Neil A. Patel, and that's really the issue.

00:42:00   We're not used to Apple being just fine. We're used to Apple being wildly better than the

00:42:04   competition or sometimes much worse, but always ahead of the curve on some significant axis. But

00:42:10   what we got in 2015 was an Apple that released more products than ever, all of which felt

00:42:13   incomplete in extremely meaningful ways, ways that meant that their products were just fine

00:42:18   and often just the same as everyone else's.

00:42:21   - Yeah, I don't know if I buy the premise,

00:42:24   because again, long memory,

00:42:25   but one thing when I think of the problem,

00:42:28   like the underlying thing,

00:42:29   I keep coming back to my hobby horse,

00:42:32   which is I don't know,

00:42:34   like in a world where products increasingly

00:42:37   have a backend service component,

00:42:41   that works against Apple,

00:42:44   because I don't know if they can make those things like,

00:42:46   They're 1.0 their buggy or whatever like I just need one more year to work out the kinks when it was just software and hardware

00:42:52   That shipped to customers that was true. They could work out the kinks. They'd make the hardware better

00:42:56   But when it's server component things like I don't I don't see a lot of like there's some progress there

00:43:04   But it's really slow and I that's why I don't have the confidence to like oh given

00:43:08   Given a year or two like contact syncing will be a solved problem. You know how long Apple's been working on contacts

00:43:14   I don't people don't have many contacts. I don't have many contacts to get like

00:43:17   hundred or so couple hundred contacts, and I just want them to be the same everywhere and to be in sync and

00:43:22   This should be a solved problem

00:43:26   But it isn't and it like is it is it because Apple hasn't had time to work on contact syncing

00:43:30   No, like it's just I feel like there is a fundamental

00:43:34   Incapability of the organization to get past some threshold of quality and as more and more things they make have that component

00:43:42   I worry that there's like a ceiling on how good those things are gonna be how good can Apple music be if there's necessarily a server

00:43:50   component how good can Apple TV be if there's no you know I

00:43:52   Don't know maybe maybe that's my imagination, but certainly it's true that more and more products

00:43:58   Even if you just think of the watch where the server is kind of the phone more and more products

00:44:03   Rely on something that is not inside the physical device to to do like their main job not as a frill or something right

00:44:11   So I don't know if like, I don't know, iCloud is better than .Mac and MobileMe and all that

00:44:21   other stuff and things have improved and they are going in the right direction.

00:44:25   But boy, it feels like slow going and as that slowly evolves, the number of new products

00:44:33   and new platforms for that matter that they introduced that rely on server infrastructure

00:44:37   things to be reliable and fast and always available is outpacing the quality of their

00:44:43   implementation of those things.

00:44:44   So I don't want to be too pessimistic.

00:44:46   I feel like it is a positive trend, but they are, Apple in this past year, if I had to

00:44:51   characterize it, it would be a year in which they, a year or two in which they introduced

00:44:56   a lot of new platforms and every new platform was kind of crappy in the beginning.

00:45:01   And so if you introduced a whole bunch of new platforms, you're going to have a whole

00:45:03   year or two of kind of crappy.

00:45:07   you gotta give them time to get their feet underneath them.

00:45:09   And every platform goes through cycles.

00:45:11   Like the Mac has been a shaky platform,

00:45:13   then solid, then shaky, then solid, then shaky, then solid,

00:45:15   then totally in crisis, then really crappy

00:45:17   for a whole bunch of years, that's the dawn of OS X,

00:45:20   and then solid again, then shaky again.

00:45:21   Like these things go in cycles.

00:45:23   So I hope we'll be on an upswing with, you know,

00:45:25   I don't know, are we currently in an upswing with iOS

00:45:28   or a downswing?

00:45:29   I can't really tell.

00:45:30   I think we're kind of plateauing with it.

00:45:33   Like, do you feel like iOS is in a downswing

00:45:36   in terms of the quality as compared to like the golden age

00:45:39   of what is that, iOS 4 maybe?

00:45:41   - No, honestly, I think iOS is great.

00:45:44   iOS on the iPhone I think is fantastic.

00:45:47   iOS, even on the iPad, it is in many ways

00:45:52   still pretty half-assed on the iPad

00:45:55   like as its own thing versus the iPhone

00:45:58   like versus just being a blown up phone OS.

00:46:00   It still needs a lot of work to really

00:46:03   stand on its own in the iPad.

00:46:04   But iOS in general and iOS on the iPhone itself,

00:46:08   I think the current version, which is 9, is very solid.

00:46:12   I'm very happy with 9.

00:46:13   - So like performance, UI, reliability, APIs,

00:46:18   like it all just seems like is this a new,

00:46:20   a good period for iOS where like the UI in 7

00:46:24   has kind of had most of the kinks worked out of it, you feel?

00:46:27   - Yeah, for the most part.

00:46:28   I mean like, nothing's perfect,

00:46:30   but I think iOS is pretty solid now.

00:46:34   Design wise, obviously there's a lot that can use improvement with the iOS 7 design

00:46:38   language and some of it I just think will not be improved.

00:46:43   Some of it would require changing that design language in ways that I don't think the current

00:46:48   software designers in power at Apple would ever allow.

00:46:52   So I don't think it's going to happen.

00:46:54   But overall, I think iOS and especially iOS on the iPhone is solid.

00:47:00   There are some things that are weird.

00:47:01   As you mentioned, anything that touches a cloud service

00:47:03   can be weird.

00:47:04   I don't know how many people out there with iPhones

00:47:08   are very frequently asked to go reenter

00:47:11   their iCloud password and settings.

00:47:13   - Periodically asked.

00:47:14   It's like rain, it's any dark sky app

00:47:17   for when am I going to be asked for my iCloud password.

00:47:20   Today you're gonna be asked 17 times,

00:47:22   then you will not be asked again for three weeks.

00:47:25   Why, I don't know.

00:47:27   - In my case, I very frequently will wake up to a phone

00:47:30   that I need to re-enter my passcode on,

00:47:32   that hasn't rebooted, but it just says Touch ID

00:47:35   'cause it's been more than 48 hours,

00:47:36   and it's been like seven hours.

00:47:38   And so, you know, there's little stuff like that,

00:47:42   but in general, using the phone, the OS,

00:47:46   in general, I would say both iOS and Mac OS X

00:47:50   in their current versions of iOS 9 and El Capitan,

00:47:53   I think both are pretty solid, pretty good releases.

00:47:58   I would say that the Apple TV needs a lot of work.

00:48:02   The actual, like, the OS level, like the core, you know, kernel and everything seem fine.

00:48:11   The UI on the Apple TV, I think, needs a lot of work.

00:48:15   It is very much a UI designed to look good in screenshots and ads, and very much not

00:48:21   a UI designed to use well at all.

00:48:23   And the only thing you need to do to see this is buy a TV show on iTunes.

00:48:27   It's so bad.

00:48:29   By a TV season on iTunes.

00:48:32   Oh my god.

00:48:34   It is so clearly not designed by anybody who ever actually has done this or needs to do

00:48:39   this.

00:48:40   It was designed to look good on the screenshot once.

00:48:42   And it does seem like the print marketing group or whoever took over the software UI

00:48:48   design, I think the new Apple TV is an example of how that can go pretty badly wrong against

00:48:55   usability.

00:48:56   I hope they see that and work on that

00:48:59   because it is pretty rough right now

00:49:00   in a few areas like that that are pretty common.

00:49:03   And to the point where this Christmas,

00:49:06   usually we give Apple TVs to our relatives here and there,

00:49:09   and this Christmas we didn't give one to anybody

00:49:10   because we don't want to support it.

00:49:13   It's not in a good spot.

00:49:17   - It's kind of ironic you blame that

00:49:18   on the print design mentality,

00:49:20   when really what they need is what print design morphed into

00:49:23   which is web design.

00:49:24   is when print warmed up to web design,

00:49:27   they brought on the information architecture people

00:49:29   to explain to them,

00:49:30   it's not so much what your screens look like,

00:49:32   it's what screens are and how they connect to each other

00:49:35   and how the people get a sense of place about it

00:49:38   and how many screens, you know,

00:49:39   like plain old wireframe information architecture

00:49:41   came in to combine with the print people to say,

00:49:44   when you do web design, it's not a bunch of pages.

00:49:46   You have to actually design the information flow

00:49:50   and how it's connected and how it's organized

00:49:51   in a way that makes sense to people

00:49:53   allows them to get where they want to go in a reasonable fashion and not feel lost and

00:49:55   all that other stuff. Whereas, yeah, I feel about the Apple TV, where a lot of the screens

00:50:01   look really good, but they're not connected to each other in a sensible way and there

00:50:06   seem to be too many of them. And a lot of time, I feel like I'm going through too many

00:50:11   screens or I lose track of where I am. So that's just plain old, straight up O'Reilly

00:50:16   polar bear book business.

00:50:17   (laughing)

00:50:19   Yeah, so that is one thing on my wish list.

00:50:21   I really hope that the Apple TV gets just some UI tweaks

00:50:26   to make it more usable, 'cause right now it is so

00:50:31   poorly usable in so many little areas like that,

00:50:34   and it seems like the fix is not difficult.

00:50:37   It just takes some rethinking of certain screen layouts.

00:50:39   And so I hope they do that.

00:50:42   - So is that one item, maybe let Marco go first,

00:50:44   is that counted as one item?

00:50:46   Is he saying that he thinks what he wants to see is the Apple TV getting some reasonable

00:50:55   improvements because it's a new platform and there's a lot of obvious things they can do?

00:50:58   Yeah, and also, while I'm talking about the Apple TV, I would also say this has a brand

00:51:04   new app store.

00:51:06   The implementation of the store itself is pretty bad, and I would love to see that improved

00:51:11   as well.

00:51:12   in the area of apps for the Apple TV,

00:51:15   you know, it's still very early.

00:51:16   There are very few apps available for it.

00:51:19   I would love to see, you know,

00:51:20   whenever a new platform comes out,

00:51:22   you have people, like on the Apple TV,

00:51:24   I know Guy English has talked a lot about this

00:51:26   on his podcast and blog,

00:51:28   like you kinda wanna see like,

00:51:30   not just porting iPhone apps to it,

00:51:33   but we wanna see like what new kinds of apps

00:51:36   does this make possible that we haven't thought of yet?

00:51:39   And on the Apple TV, we haven't seen that yet.

00:51:41   I'm curious to know if during 2016 we will see

00:51:45   some new kind of app take off on the Apple TV

00:51:49   that wouldn't work just as well or better on a phone.

00:51:51   Like something that really takes advantage

00:51:53   of it being a TV app.

00:51:54   You know, so I would love to see that

00:51:56   come from the third-party community.

00:51:58   And I hope it does.

00:52:00   I really do hope it does.

00:52:01   And I also hope that the Apple TV becomes

00:52:03   a first-class game platform to release on for iOS games.

00:52:07   - I'm gonna hit the pie in the sky buzzer on that one.

00:52:11   No, I know, I know. Obviously I'm not expecting console games to be launched to it, but I

00:52:18   think games that are launching on iOS or that are having success on iOS, I hope that they

00:52:24   get ported quickly to the Apple TV or launch simultaneously would be probably the pie in

00:52:28   the sky goal for now. But it would be nice to see it get more gaming status because it

00:52:33   is really fun to play good games on the Apple TV. But that I think, you know, if this was

00:52:40   as a predictions episode, I would honestly predict

00:52:43   neither of those things would happen.

00:52:44   Neither it being a first party thing for games,

00:52:47   nor us seeing some really amazing apps for it.

00:52:48   I would actually say neither of those were likely to happen,

00:52:51   but they're both plausible, and they're both things

00:52:54   that I wish would happen.

00:52:56   - So how are we summarizing the 93 points you just made?

00:52:59   - Apple TV, Cullen, get better.

00:53:01   - Yeah, there you go.

00:53:03   He had some, definitely some plausible things

00:53:05   that could be done to Apple TV.

00:53:06   I think he drifted off into unicorns in the game.

00:53:09   or you got a PS4 now, you don't have to worry about that.

00:53:11   - Oh goodness, all right.

00:53:13   - All right, Casey, your turn.

00:53:14   - So I have a handful, and what do I wanna use first?

00:53:19   Okay, I will use App Store improvements.

00:53:22   App Store, colon, get better.

00:53:24   I think that, and it's easy for me

00:53:28   to make these sorts of wishes and hopes and dreams

00:53:33   and decisions from the position of someone who really,

00:53:37   this doesn't affect me,

00:53:38   But for those friends that I have, like Marco, like Underscore, and so many others that try

00:53:43   to make a living out of the App Store, I would really love to see things get better for independent

00:53:51   developers.

00:53:52   And I'm not really clear how.

00:53:53   I mean, a lot of the standard answers like trials and things like that, that may or may

00:53:58   not improve things.

00:53:59   But whatever the answer is, especially what with the shakeup that we discussed either

00:54:04   the last week or the week before,

00:54:06   I'd really like to see, and I think it's plausible,

00:54:08   to see the App Store get better,

00:54:11   actually both for independent developers,

00:54:13   which is how I was originally coming at this,

00:54:14   but also for users, you know, see search get better,

00:54:17   to see things like home sharing I've never tried

00:54:20   because I'm petrified of trying it

00:54:22   'cause I've heard it's terrible.

00:54:24   All of that, can we just make that better, please?

00:54:27   - That's a pretty vague item.

00:54:28   I mean, it is plausible, definitely plausible.

00:54:30   Like if you'd picked one thing, for example,

00:54:32   say you'd picked upgrade pricing.

00:54:33   100% plausible that it's merely a policy change.

00:54:36   It could happen, you could have said,

00:54:37   but instead you just kind of punted and said,

00:54:39   I want something better to happen for the App Store,

00:54:41   but you're not willing to say what that is.

00:54:43   I can see that it's definitely a lot of plausible things.

00:54:45   - Yeah, and I think the thing of it is,

00:54:47   is that I'm not so convinced that all the things

00:54:50   everyone's been whining about are the right answer.

00:54:53   They may be, you know, upgrade pricing might help a lot.

00:54:57   Trials might help a lot,

00:54:59   but I'm not sure those are the silver bullets

00:55:01   everyone says they are.

00:55:02   And I haven't been able to come up with the silver bullet.

00:55:05   And I'm pretty sure if I could,

00:55:07   I would be much better compensated than I am,

00:55:10   and I would probably be working at Apple.

00:55:11   But whatever the answer may be,

00:55:14   there's gotta be something out there.

00:55:15   There's gotta be a way to make things better.

00:55:17   Maybe it's more transparency.

00:55:19   Okay, I'll go with that.

00:55:20   Maybe it's just a little bit more transparency.

00:55:22   Now you might have to hit the pie in the sky buzzer, but.

00:55:25   - No, I think it's an easy one.

00:55:26   To say that when app developers have their application

00:55:31   review and they have just like a status line with a canned message that tells them what phase it's in

00:55:36   or when it gets rejected like the fact that they can't immediately connect with someone to have a

00:55:44   humane discussion about the issues at hand like that just it's like there's some misunderstanding

00:55:49   that could be cleared up with a five-minute conversation with a person who is empowered

00:55:52   to do something and that conversation can never happen you just you can send email you can wait

00:55:57   for a response sometimes the response makes it clear that they didn't understand what you said

00:56:00   and just like, I don't know if you call it transparency

00:56:03   or like communication or like maybe it's a scaling problem

00:56:06   where they just can't have individual people

00:56:07   talk to individual developers about their problems

00:56:10   with their applications.

00:56:11   And a lot of it just has to be canned responses.

00:56:13   But yeah, I think that could definitely improve

00:56:16   even if you just threw manpower at it

00:56:18   or woman power or human power,

00:56:20   but just to just say hire more people to,

00:56:23   you know, so there is someone, always someone available,

00:56:26   a knowledgeable person available

00:56:28   to discuss an app rejection to explain what the deal is, what needs to be done to fix it,

00:56:35   if there's a misunderstanding going on. You know, because one of the ones I've seen a couple times

00:56:41   is someone will submit an application and it'll get rejected for reading or writing files from

00:56:45   a forbidden location, but the code that is reading or writing the forbidden files is from inside an

00:56:49   Apple framework. It's not clear, like, did I use the framework wrong? Did I misconfigure it and

00:56:57   and call an API on some kind of misconfigured object,

00:57:00   and that's why it wrote in a bad place?

00:57:02   Or is it a bug in Apple's own code

00:57:04   where no matter how you use this API,

00:57:06   it has the potential to write files

00:57:07   in a forbidden place or whatever?

00:57:09   And so developers who get that message,

00:57:12   get that rejection, they're like, what do I do now?

00:57:14   Can I not use that framework?

00:57:16   'Cause it's like, as far as they're concerned,

00:57:17   it's not their code that's doing it.

00:57:19   And all they need is someone, whoever did this rejection,

00:57:21   if Apple even knows, to say, oh yeah, no,

00:57:24   I know it's our code doing it,

00:57:26   but it's because you're using your API in the wrong way.

00:57:29   You're using it like this, that, and that,

00:57:30   and it causes it to write files here.

00:57:32   If you use it in this other way, it won't do that.

00:57:33   Or have someone have the conversation and go,

00:57:36   "Oh, you're right, you're not doing anything wrong.

00:57:38   That's just a bug in our framework."

00:57:39   And those conversations either seem to happen

00:57:43   way too slowly or not happen at all,

00:57:45   and a lot of developers get frustrated

00:57:47   by a rejection that's not actionable.

00:57:50   Like they don't know what to do.

00:57:51   They just throw up their hands and say,

00:57:52   "Well, what am I supposed to do about that?

00:57:53   Am I not supposed to use that framework?

00:57:54   Am I doing something wrong?"

00:57:55   In some respects, like, well, you know,

00:57:57   it's not Apple's job to write your application for you,

00:57:59   but I don't know, I've seen enough of those cases

00:58:02   that I think a better, a more human connection

00:58:07   with the faceless machine that is App Review

00:58:09   could benefit all developers.

00:58:11   - Yeah, I mean, to me, like, my 2016 wish

00:58:14   in regards to App Store improvement is much more broad

00:58:18   and vague because, honestly, I don't expect

00:58:22   a lot of these things that you've mentioned to happen.

00:58:24   My wish is simply show us a sign that things might be changing for the better because we

00:58:34   got the fill taking over thing last week.

00:58:38   Show us a sign of movement in the right direction in actual App Store status or behavior or

00:58:44   policy.

00:58:45   For years, the attitude of the App Store shown by both their communication and by their action

00:58:53   or rather inaction for the most part, the attitude has been really nothing here needs

00:58:58   to be changed, everything is fine. And the system we have now is good and works well.

00:59:03   In reality the system they have now is okay and works okay, but I would not say that there's

00:59:11   no room for improvement, whereas the attitude from them keeps being, by their own actions,

00:59:15   keeps being we don't need to improve this, because they really just haven't. So I would

00:59:21   would like to see just some sign that they believe, that they agree inside, that they

00:59:26   believe that there are things that could use significant improvement and that they are

00:59:31   working on them. Because we really have seen nothing of that sort so far.

00:59:35   You just want to like issue an apology or make like a statement of purpose or make a

00:59:39   mission statement to say, "We agree things are wrong and we will fix them somehow vaguely."

00:59:44   No, I mean I would like to see action, but it doesn't have to be a big action yet. Just

00:59:48   So like, some kind of action that shows that they are changing things in the App Store,

00:59:54   that they are not satisfied with the App Store.

00:59:55   Because that's the thing, they appear so incredibly satisfied with it.

01:00:00   And just so little has changed about it in seven years or whatever.

01:00:03   Like I want to see something that indicates that Apple truly believes this is not good

01:00:10   enough.

01:00:11   - Casey said that he didn't know, you know, like he didn't have any specific thing.

01:00:14   Because maybe trials are in it, maybe upgrade pricing isn't in it.

01:00:16   wasn't sure exactly what it was. Well, Apple's not sure about those same things. They're not sure

01:00:22   that because if they were sure that upgrades would fix it, they would do it. If they're sure

01:00:25   that trials would make things better, they would do it. So obviously they also agree with UKC that

01:00:28   they're not quite sure what to do and so they're doing nothing. And like it's the same thing with

01:00:33   Marco's request here. If you don't have a specific thing, like I know you want something to happen,

01:00:39   but someone inside Apple would have to pick which thing it is and it's potentially dangerous because

01:00:44   say you're wrong and trials makes the app store worse instead of better. I mean

01:00:48   I guess that would kind of fulfill Marco's thing because at least it would be

01:00:51   showing well we tried something at least instead of just saying oh we're you know

01:00:53   like I think the impression you're getting Marco is like because if they

01:00:57   don't do anything we just assume well I guess they must think it's fine because

01:01:00   they never do anything and it doesn't change. Yes. And so it's like yeah and so

01:01:04   them doing something even if it was the wrong thing would at least show that

01:01:08   they have some internal dissatisfaction. It could be argued that the management

01:01:12   reshuffle counts as something, even though it is not a change yet that affects developers.

01:01:17   It does at least show that they think there is something amiss somewhere inside Apple's

01:01:21   organization. Whether they think the thing that's amiss is the App Store or some other thing that

01:01:25   was affected by the shuffle, we don't know. But I don't know. I can let that one slide by,

01:01:30   because it is definitely plausible that they will do something, something vague that we will not

01:01:35   specify. Hey, I had to skirt the system somehow just for you. All right, what's your first?

01:01:41   Why you guys are getting big vague and big picture mines are just so super specific and so easy

01:01:48   I want a new Mac Pro

01:01:50   So does Marco so does everybody everyone's in who doesn't want a new Pro a Mac Pro in every pot

01:01:56   It's a new Mac Pro with you know

01:02:00   Thunderbolt 3 and and my sub item is a new 5k

01:02:04   External display to drive off the thing like we all know we want it

01:02:08   We know it has to be coming, just make a new Mac Pro.

01:02:11   It is entirely plausible, 100% plausible,

01:02:13   and it should come in 2016, and when it comes,

01:02:16   I'll be excited 'cause I like that,

01:02:17   and I might even buy one.

01:02:19   - Yeah, I have that also on my list, of course,

01:02:23   under a heading of just complete the Retina transition.

01:02:28   And so what this would have to include

01:02:30   is a desktop standalone 5K display,

01:02:34   and the ability for the Mac Pro

01:02:38   and the laptops to drive it.

01:02:40   And maybe the Mac Mini as well, that would be nice.

01:02:43   I'm not expecting much on that front

01:02:45   because the Mac Mini is so rarely updated,

01:02:46   but that would be nice.

01:02:47   - People hook up screens to Mac Minis?

01:02:49   - That aren't TVs, right?

01:02:52   Yeah, so, yeah, I totally, and this is very plausible

01:02:55   because this is going to be the year of Skylake.

01:03:00   And we got like little trickles of Skylake so far.

01:03:04   2016 should be, if Intel has everything together,

01:03:07   which is not a given, but if they have everything together,

01:03:09   this should be the year of Skylake everywhere.

01:03:12   So this should be the laptops, finally all of them,

01:03:15   all the pros going to Skylake,

01:03:17   the MacBook One going to Skylake

01:03:18   and getting its USB-C port upgraded

01:03:20   to also have Thunderbolt coming out of it.

01:03:22   The MacBook Pro Retina line, I expect to be,

01:03:26   not only upgraded to Skylake, but to also get a redesign.

01:03:29   We've heard rumors here and there that it will,

01:03:31   and I think the timing is right

01:03:32   because the current design came out in 2012,

01:03:34   and Skylake gives them an excuse

01:03:36   to make the battery smaller. So I expect there to be a MacBook Pro Skylake refresh. This

01:03:41   is, sorry, getting into predictions, but this is all just part of it. You know, like, I

01:03:46   want this to be finally completing the retina transition in the Mac lineup because it has

01:03:52   been partially complete literally since 2012. And we are so close, we're so close, and

01:04:00   we're just not quite there yet until we can get Skylake that can drive, Skylake chipsets

01:04:05   with Thunderbolt 3 that can drive external 5K displays over a single cable.

01:04:09   And that is so close.

01:04:11   We are so close to that.

01:04:12   Do you want to see them get rid of the MacBook Air?

01:04:15   So here's what I think will happen on that front.

01:04:17   Not what you think will happen.

01:04:18   Do you want them to get rid of it?

01:04:19   Would you be happy if you could tell Apple what to do, essentially?

01:04:23   Because discontinuing the MacBook Air is entirely feasible.

01:04:25   So if you were in charge of Apple, you'd say, "You know what?

01:04:28   In 2016, stop making the MacBook Air."

01:04:30   First of all, I think that would be too soon.

01:04:33   I would expect the MacBook Air to get updates from now on on a similar schedule to when

01:04:38   the Mac Mini gets updates. I would expect that they wouldn't get rid of the Air without

01:04:43   compelling things taking its place. So obviously on the low end you have the MacBook One. But

01:04:48   the MacBook One really does not replace the Air in a number of ways because it is so much

01:04:55   slower and so much more limited and has so many more compromises for that thinness than

01:05:00   even the Air does. I do think though that when they redesign the Skylake MacBook Pros,

01:05:07   the Retina MacBook Pro, I do think the newly thinner, lighter 13" Retina MacBook Pro will

01:05:14   be so close to the 13" MacBook Air that I think it will make the MacBook Air far less

01:05:21   relevant. So then on the low end you have the MacBook One eating into the 11" and then

01:05:27   and then you have the new thinner 13-inch MacBook Pro

01:05:31   eating into the 13-inch Air.

01:05:33   And then I think the Air line is pretty much obviated

01:05:35   at that point.

01:05:36   That doesn't mean Apple will stop selling it

01:05:38   because today's Apple does not stop selling anything ever.

01:05:40   But I do think that both ends will then be

01:05:44   adequately attacked and will be clearly replaced

01:05:48   for most Air buyers at that point.

01:05:51   - So Marco, you had said that you want a new Mac Pro

01:05:56   and God help me for encouraging you to talk about this more,

01:05:59   but why, what would this phantom new Mac Pro do for you

01:06:03   that your, and I don't mean this sarcastically,

01:06:06   beloved 5K iMac doesn't do?

01:06:10   - For the most part, I'm not sure I would get

01:06:14   the next generation Mac Pro, I might get the one after that.

01:06:17   Ultimately, what I want out of my computer

01:06:20   that the current iMac is not satisfying me with

01:06:22   is just even more sheer CPU performance.

01:06:26   Like that, I always want more CPU performance

01:06:29   than what I have.

01:06:30   And the way Intel's moving these days,

01:06:33   new CPU performance does not come easily.

01:06:35   It does not come quickly.

01:06:37   Skylake is a substantial boost, not like twice as fast,

01:06:41   but it's faster by a noticeable amount,

01:06:44   and I would get way more cores.

01:06:46   I would probably go eight core if I got a Mac Pro,

01:06:50   maybe even 12, but that would probably be insanely priced

01:06:52   so I would probably go with eight.

01:06:54   As time goes on, my CPU needs just are increasing.

01:06:57   You know, and now I'm taking way more pictures,

01:07:00   and now that I have this awesome new camera,

01:07:02   processing those pictures is insane.

01:07:04   I'm shooting 4K video now with my awesome iPhone camera,

01:07:07   and my fancy camera, but even more with the iPhone.

01:07:09   You know, so I'm dealing with bigger video files,

01:07:11   dealing with bigger photos.

01:07:12   As I'm compiling more code,

01:07:14   and I'll be transitioning to Swift fairly soon,

01:07:16   all the CPU needs of everything keep going up

01:07:18   for compilation and everything.

01:07:20   So ultimately I push my computer to the limit

01:07:24   fairly often in my work,

01:07:26   and not for massively long sustained periods

01:07:30   for the most part, but for brief periods of

01:07:32   I just need all the horsepower I can get

01:07:34   for the next two minutes kind of thing.

01:07:36   And I do that kind of thing frequently.

01:07:38   So I really would like more CPU power.

01:07:40   And that is mainly what I'd be looking for.

01:07:43   In all other ways, I'm extremely happy with the Time Act.

01:07:47   And even CPU power-wise,

01:07:49   versus the lineup that's available today,

01:07:51   it is at the top for single-threaded.

01:07:54   I guess the newer Broadwell-based one

01:07:56   probably beats it by a few percentage points,

01:07:58   but it is relative to the entire Mac lineup,

01:08:01   it is one of the top couple or top three

01:08:04   that have ever existed in single-threaded performance.

01:08:06   And even in multi-core, it is pretty far up the list

01:08:10   until you get into the very high-core count Mac pros.

01:08:13   So it is really close to as good as you can get already.

01:08:17   That's why I'm saying I would probably wait

01:08:19   a generation of Mac Pro, but I don't know,

01:08:22   if the generation's keeping two or three years long,

01:08:25   that might change.

01:08:26   So the Mac Pro has a timing issue,

01:08:27   because the Xeons that it would use,

01:08:31   that would go in an update,

01:08:33   the Broadwell Xeons are coming out next week,

01:08:35   but that chipset will not support Thunderbolt 3.

01:08:39   So that chipset most likely won't be able to drive

01:08:42   a theoretical 5K Apple display.

01:08:45   But the Skylake Xeons are coming out,

01:08:47   quote, later this year.

01:08:48   that would be a way better chip to use

01:08:50   in a Mac Pro update in theory

01:08:52   because then you could rev the whole thing

01:08:53   with Thunderbolt 3, USB-C ports,

01:08:56   and the ability to drive a new 5K monitor.

01:09:00   So I hope that's what they do.

01:09:02   I don't know if that's what they'll do,

01:09:03   but I hope they will wait for Skylake-E chips

01:09:05   and give us a nice little update.

01:09:07   And if they do, that would be a really interesting option

01:09:11   for me to consider, but I would probably

01:09:14   still wanna wait a generation

01:09:15   just to get a bigger boost over what I have now.

01:09:18   - You're talking like me now,

01:09:19   oh I don't wanna buy this one, I wanna buy the next one.

01:09:21   But the difference is historically

01:09:23   is that you do buy this one, and also the next one.

01:09:25   - Truth.

01:09:26   - That's usually the case, yeah.

01:09:27   Well once I learned how easy it is to resell Macs,

01:09:30   it makes it a lot easier, 'cause then it becomes like,

01:09:32   well, is it worth spending like, you know,

01:09:35   a thousand dollars to use this computer for 18 months?

01:09:38   And it's like sometimes the answer is yes.

01:09:40   You know, if you can get like the best computer

01:09:42   in the world for what you do every single day,

01:09:45   buy it when it comes out and then sell it a year later

01:09:47   for 500 to $1,000 less than what you paid,

01:09:51   that's not that bad.

01:09:52   That's pretty good, actually.

01:09:53   - If someone wants to make a cottage business,

01:09:55   you could be the only client

01:09:56   and they could just rent you Macs

01:09:58   like they rent you headphones and cameras.

01:09:59   - Right, yeah.

01:10:00   - So, I mean, I guess that's fine and makes sense and all.

01:10:04   I'm surprised that you really are CPU-bound that often,

01:10:06   'cause about the only time I'm CPU-bound

01:10:07   is when I'm compressing video files

01:10:09   that I've ripped from a Blu-ray or something like that.

01:10:12   It's so rare that I'm CPU-bound on anything else that I do.

01:10:15   I don't know.

01:10:16   - All right, so whose turn is it now?

01:10:19   Marco's, I believe?

01:10:20   - I mean, it basically just,

01:10:21   I stole John's Mac Pro topic.

01:10:23   - Well, you had it on your list too.

01:10:24   It was a duplicate.

01:10:25   - Yeah, and it really is, you know, for me,

01:10:26   it really is part of this kind of,

01:10:27   this general thing of like,

01:10:29   I hope it's gonna be the year of Skylake everywhere,

01:10:31   and also finally finish the retina transition on Mac.

01:10:34   Finally cover the whole product line with retina.

01:10:37   - No, I know how Tiff feels.

01:10:38   Marco cannot follow instructions.

01:10:40   - No.

01:10:41   - All's about what he predicts and what he--

01:10:42   - No, that's a wish.

01:10:43   'Cause that is not guaranteed.

01:10:46   You know, like this 5K display might not actually come out.

01:10:50   - Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

01:10:51   - You know, like a new Mac Pro using Skylake

01:10:53   might not come out.

01:10:54   Or it might come out using Broadwell

01:10:56   and not have Thunderbolt 3 for the next three years.

01:10:58   We have no idea.

01:10:59   - Yeah, like, my, actually, my items are two things.

01:11:02   Like, I want a new Mac Pro,

01:11:04   even if it's just the Broadwell one,

01:11:06   and the sub-item is I want a new 5K display.

01:11:08   And so if I get one of those, I get a new Mac Pro,

01:11:10   yeah, I'm glad, because here's why I'd want a new Mac Pro.

01:11:13   Even though it doesn't drive the 5K display,

01:11:15   even though I've said that I'm not gonna buy it

01:11:17   until it does, a new Mac Pro would signal

01:11:20   that the Mac Pro is not on the Mac Mini update cycle.

01:11:23   You know what I mean?

01:11:24   - Right, right.

01:11:25   - That it is a line of computers that they consider updating

01:11:28   on something approaching a reasonable schedule

01:11:30   based on the availability of the chips

01:11:32   that everyone thinks they should put in.

01:11:33   Unlike the Mini, which is like,

01:11:34   eh, I'll skip a year or two, whatever.

01:11:37   And then someone wakes up and goes,

01:11:38   oh, Mac Mini, what?

01:11:38   All right, here's a new one.

01:11:40   And then goes back to sleep again.

01:11:42   I would like to see some sort of solid story, I guess, around Swift on the server.

01:11:50   Something that's considered, that's deliberate, that's well thought out.

01:11:55   Some sort of nice Swift on the server package setup, framework, whatever adjective you'd

01:12:02   like to use.

01:12:03   I want to see Swift on the server.

01:12:04   I think that would be cool.

01:12:05   JE: From Apple or from somebody else?

01:12:07   JF.

01:12:08   Don't care.

01:12:09   I mean, from Apple would be better, I guess, since it's first party.

01:12:11   But really, if there was some accepted and understood standard, I would really love to

01:12:17   see it.

01:12:19   Not one of those situations like CocoaPods versus Carthage or anything like that.

01:12:23   In honest to goodness, good, robust, mature as much as it can be, given this is all new,

01:12:30   Swift on the server framework.

01:12:31   I think that would be really, really awesome.

01:12:33   I almost had an item like that on my list, but I didn't quite know how to phrase it,

01:12:36   and I am obviously more demanding about avoiding vagueness

01:12:41   than either of you are.

01:12:41   But it was like, maybe, you know,

01:12:46   do we just need a bunch of libraries for HTTP,

01:12:50   for just handling the protocol,

01:12:51   and then like, you know,

01:12:52   sort of web frameworks on top of that,

01:12:54   or another possibility is some standardized way

01:12:59   to talk to databases from Swift, you know?

01:13:03   Like, is there so many pieces,

01:13:04   And I'm thinking obviously, quote unquote, web applications.

01:13:07   So web applications may just be something

01:13:09   that accepts and returns JSON over HTTP.

01:13:13   Is that a web application?

01:13:14   But just what we think of is when you say server side

01:13:16   things, that's what we're all talking about.

01:13:18   Not many people are making servers these days

01:13:20   that aren't talking HTTP.

01:13:24   And so I don't know if you need--

01:13:28   especially in the first year, it's too much to ask, I think,

01:13:31   to say, oh, there should be a giant proliferation of web

01:13:36   framework things, and they should all duke it out

01:13:38   until one clear victor emerges.

01:13:40   Like, that's going to take like five years, right?

01:13:42   So maybe we'll start smaller and say,

01:13:44   how about just a standard for starting a server,

01:13:47   listening on a port, dealing with HTTP,

01:13:50   receiving requests, and sending responses.

01:13:52   Sort of the bare bones, the equivalent of WSGI and Python,

01:13:57   or PSGI plaque and Perl, or whatever.

01:14:00   Like maybe we could start with that.

01:14:01   That seems like a reasonable one year goal.

01:14:04   And even there, I bet there'd be like

01:14:05   five competing standards and they have to just duke it out

01:14:07   and then the second year it'll be clear

01:14:08   which one is the best support or whatever.

01:14:11   But yeah, I would really like something like that too.

01:14:14   I just didn't know how to phrase it.

01:14:15   - Yeah, and I mean, people have started doing this.

01:14:18   There's Taylor, which the chat room is linking me to.

01:14:21   We'll put that in the show notes.

01:14:23   I feel like there was something else

01:14:24   with a really cheesy name.

01:14:25   - There's one called Nest, I think.

01:14:27   - Oh, I'm not familiar with that.

01:14:28   Wasn't there one called like Perfect or something?

01:14:30   I'm sure there's like 19 of them.

01:14:31   Like, this is, you know, what we're asking for is like there to be one or two that are

01:14:36   really good, well supported, debugged, that people are building things on.

01:14:41   Like it's a tough year one goal.

01:14:43   Like I mean, I think we'll be making progress on it, but anytime you sort of give this kind

01:14:47   of playground to people, no pun intended, they're just going to, everyone's going to

01:14:51   try a whole bunch of things.

01:14:53   And there's, I don't know if you can really fast forward through that to get to the end

01:14:56   part where we all decide on jQuery or whatever and then regret it because jQuery is too big

01:15:00   and we have to do--yeah, I forget, I don't want to bring JavaScript into this, this is

01:15:03   too painful.

01:15:04   Oh, God, you and your JavaScript.

01:15:07   All right, any other thoughts on this or should we move back to John?

01:15:10   All right, John.

01:15:11   All right, so my second, or third, if you count the 5K display item list, I'm going

01:15:17   to throw this out there because remember this is not a prediction.

01:15:20   Not a prediction.

01:15:21   New file system.

01:15:22   Ding, ding.

01:15:23   for OS X and for iOS, sure they can have it too if they really want, it's fine.

01:15:29   I think it's plausible. How long has Apple known they need a new file system?

01:15:33   For a really really long time. They should have been working on this for

01:15:37   years and years and years and years and years and they should have been working on it

01:15:40   and they have been. Like they've worked out long enough to have a ZFS dead end

01:15:43   many years back. Like I feel like it is plausible. I don't think it's gonna happen.

01:15:48   I feel like if I had to predict I would say 2017-ish but it is plausible and

01:15:52   And so when I sit down to watch WWDC, whether in person or remotely, in 2016, I am going

01:16:00   to have a plausible hope, as opposed to this year, which was a slightly less plausible hope,

01:16:04   that they announce a new file system. And I guess they would announce it in the context of the Mac,

01:16:09   or maybe they wouldn't announce it at all. I don't even know. I just want it to exist.

01:16:12   So again, this is not a prediction. This is a wish, and I believe it is. And if it's not plausible,

01:16:18   shame on Apple. Because if you say, "Oh, it's too soon. We just started working on this project

01:16:22   six months ago, you did?

01:16:23   Did you really start six months ago?

01:16:25   Anyway, new file system.

01:16:27   - Yeah, good luck.

01:16:29   All right, Marco, for you.

01:16:32   - So I have this whole section here on the Apple Watch.

01:16:36   I want the Apple Watch to find its way.

01:16:40   By all accounts, the Apple Watch is doing decently.

01:16:43   But by many people's estimations,

01:16:45   looking at server logs and everything,

01:16:46   it does seem like many of them were given

01:16:48   as Christmas gifts this past week.

01:16:51   And before that it seems like the Apple Watch

01:16:53   was doing decently sales-wise.

01:16:55   Not a massive, like, "Saturday Night on Fire" kind of thing.

01:16:59   Not the next iPhone by any means, but doing decently.

01:17:03   So sales-wise it seems like it's gonna be here to stay.

01:17:06   It's a line that is working for Apple.

01:17:10   I worry that it will have the same growth curve as the iPad.

01:17:15   It will shoot up now as it's the new cool thing,

01:17:18   and then a lot of people will just drop off,

01:17:21   or the upgrade cycle will become very long,

01:17:23   way longer than Apple wants it to be.

01:17:25   I think the Apple Watch is a product

01:17:27   that is like 75% good.

01:17:31   It just needs a lot of refinement

01:17:35   because everything it does,

01:17:36   it does things that are incredibly compelling

01:17:39   and it just does them all almost really well.

01:17:42   So for the last few days,

01:17:44   I have been wearing a mechanical watch.

01:17:46   I have not worn my Apple Watch since,

01:17:48   I don't know, a week ago or so.

01:17:50   So I'm wearing a mechanical watch that I got as a Christmas gift and I'm learning what

01:17:54   this world is like.

01:17:56   One of the cool things about a mechanical watch, besides the fact that I think honestly,

01:18:00   I'm finally understanding when the watch people said, when the Apple Watch launched, that

01:18:07   that is just not a fashion item.

01:18:10   When you compare the way traditional style watches look versus the way the Apple Watch

01:18:16   looks, I think you can say in isolation that the Apple watch can look good. In many of

01:18:22   its configurations I think it does look good, but when you compare it fashionability wise

01:18:27   to a mechanical watch, I think it's honestly no contest. But it's not even in the same

01:18:34   league, but that's okay, it doesn't need to be, it just needs to be good. But anyway,

01:18:38   there are so many areas of it in which like the notifications, I do miss, now that I'm

01:18:42   this watch, I do miss, like when Casey sent me a message earlier, my pocket vibrated and

01:18:49   I glanced at my wrist and only saw the time. And I do miss like having to take my phone

01:18:55   out does feel inconvenient now when I get a message to go try to read it and see what

01:18:59   it is. But that feature of the Apple Watch is also very frustrating because for me it

01:19:04   works most of the time but not all of the time. Every so often at seemingly random intervals,

01:19:11   I will just stop receiving notifications on my Apple Watch.

01:19:14   But my phone thinks it sent into the watch, so then just they get dropped on the floor

01:19:19   and I just don't receive messages until next time I check my phone, which I'm not in the

01:19:23   habit of doing anymore because I have the Apple Watch.

01:19:25   I can look at all the Apple Watch's core benefits and they all work like 75% well like that.

01:19:32   And it's frustrating.

01:19:33   And yes, it is still its first year.

01:19:36   And so yes, many of these things are like 1.0 bugs even though technically it's on software

01:19:39   version 2.0 but that doesn't seem to mean what you would expect from a 2.0. I just think

01:19:45   that this product has so much promise but it just needs to be better. And it needs to

01:19:53   be better in ways that typically don't happen quickly. You know like if a product is launched

01:19:58   and it's like almost really great, that almost is really hard to resolve and to remove into

01:20:04   to just being really great.

01:20:07   And I hope Apple can do that with the watch,

01:20:10   because it really is a very compelling product

01:20:14   in a number of ways most of the time,

01:20:17   and it's just so frustrating that it isn't all the time.

01:20:20   I am so happy having this thing on my wrist now

01:20:23   these past few days that just,

01:20:25   it doesn't do nearly as much as the Apple Watch

01:20:28   by a long shot, but it does it every single time.

01:20:33   Every time I look at my wrist, the time is displayed.

01:20:35   Every single time.

01:20:37   And that's what you want out of something like that.

01:20:39   You want it to be that reliable.

01:20:41   The Apple Watch isn't, and I hope it can be,

01:20:44   and I hope it is.

01:20:46   - I think there's some good hope for the upgrade cycle

01:20:48   because if any device had fashion going for it,

01:20:52   both it's got the tech thing,

01:20:53   where this is the big fat version

01:20:54   and surely they're gonna get thinner, right?

01:20:56   So that will help because it'll make it feel less like

01:20:58   a giant restroom trailer on your wrist.

01:21:00   And it's got the fashion thing.

01:21:01   Even if they had made it as thin as they wanted to make it and they were actually making it

01:21:06   bigger again for fashion reasons, the way you get someone to buy a new watch next year

01:21:11   is convince them this really is a fashion accessory and then make it look different.

01:21:16   People are into fashion and fashion things want things to look different.

01:21:19   They don't want to wear the same thing year after year.

01:21:22   At the very least, it will have a motivator to shorten the upgrade cycle that the iPad

01:21:28   doesn't have because no one is upgrading their iPad because their old one is not fashionable

01:21:31   Yeah, I think that's true. I recently, I don't know, maybe it was a week or two ago, wrote

01:21:36   an Apple Watch Revisited post on my site. And I agree with you, Marco, that I have very

01:21:43   mixed feelings about the Apple Watch. And in fact, on the upgrade-ies, on Relay, this

01:21:49   is with Jason Snell and Mike Hurley, they do their year-end kind of recap and, you know,

01:21:54   a funny award show. And they had solicited feedback from any of the Relay hosts that

01:22:00   felt like they wanted to participate. And I forget exactly what the categories were, but I had listed

01:22:06   the Apple Watch both for the most disappointing device as well as the one that has changed my life

01:22:12   the most. Because I really do feel both of those things are true. That I had such high expectations

01:22:19   for the watch, which I don't think they've really, it's really met. But at the same time,

01:22:27   you know, to quote myself from my site, you know, it's become, it's made my phone transition

01:22:37   from being a personal device to a private device. And that's a really big change. It's now,

01:22:46   my phone is only for me, and I'm not taking it out constantly unless I choose to.

01:22:53   it stays in my pocket all the time unless I'm choosing to get it out. And that's very different

01:22:59   than it used to be when it was buzzing constantly and I would take my phone out in order to see what

01:23:04   was going on and triage it and whatnot. And I agree with you, Marco, that having notifications

01:23:08   on your wrist, as long as they work, which 99% of the time it does for me, although occasionally

01:23:13   my watch just kind of forgets that it's connected to the phone, as long as they work, it's phenomenal

01:23:18   and it's really changed the way I interact with my phone. And so I agree with you. I'd like to see

01:23:23   Apple Watch colon get better,

01:23:25   but it is an extremely impressive device

01:23:28   and I think I would really miss it if I stopped wearing it.

01:23:31   - Yeah, I'm also, you know,

01:23:32   on the UI side of the Apple Watch,

01:23:36   I think that's another product where the UI needs

01:23:38   a lot of help in certain areas.

01:23:40   Like just, I mean, honestly, I don't think,

01:23:44   I think this falls off the end of plausibility,

01:23:46   but I would love to see a complete rethinking

01:23:49   of the entire app launching paradigm on the watch.

01:23:52   you know, make it more of a like clock face plus glances

01:23:56   only kind of thing and get rid of the entire honeycomb screen

01:24:01   and the idea of launching apps that way,

01:24:03   get rid of that entire paradigm.

01:24:05   Like I wanna see major rethinking of the watch UI.

01:24:10   I also just like, it is a smart watch, it is a computer,

01:24:14   be smarter, like the clock faces themselves,

01:24:17   the watch faces themselves are in many ways

01:24:21   still somewhat dumb. And I mentioned this before so I won't go too far into it, but

01:24:27   just get smarter with what can be shown on the face, what you have to choose between

01:24:33   the relevance of certain information, certain kind of like, you know, some kind of heuristic

01:24:39   of like, you know, do I have to have the timer always showing on the face in order to have

01:24:44   it show when it's counting down when I have one running? Like stuff like that. Just like

01:24:50   the watch face is smarter. Why does the minute hand of the utility face ever cover up the

01:24:58   date so you can't see what date it is? Like simple things like that.

01:25:02   It's humorism, that's why. Right, like it's a computer. You can do smarter

01:25:07   things. When you compare it to mechanical watches, now that I've seen this world a little

01:25:11   bit, when you compare it to mechanical watches, the Apple Watch face isn't that much smarter.

01:25:17   it has many of the same downsides as mechanical watches do. It's a computer, it has the

01:25:21   ability to show anything, to be smarter, to be considerate and to be really, you know,

01:25:27   intelligent and flexible in a way that the current Apple Watch face environment doesn't

01:25:33   take advantage of it and doesn't really expose or allow. And I really hope to see

01:25:38   more of that. And, you know, but again, I think this pushes the bounds of plausibility

01:25:43   because a lot of that would require gutting and redoing and redesigning and rethinking

01:25:49   much of the Apple Watch's existing UI. Honestly, I don't see Apple doing that. Instead, we

01:25:54   have these rumors that the version 2 hardware will just be like a FaceTime camera added,

01:25:59   and that sounds insane to me. Like, I hope that my, what I have listed on here is like

01:26:05   second gen hardware. Please let it be substantially faster because the speed of the watch really

01:26:11   impedes the kinds of usefulness that you can do with its apps. It would be nice if it was

01:26:15   a little bit thinner. It probably won't happen. And then I have here, "FaceTime camera?"

01:26:20   I hope I'm missing something. Because I really, I hope there's a good use for that

01:26:26   camera that I'm not thinking of. Because I can think of one really bad use which should

01:26:31   be FaceTime. So I really hope that's not it.

01:26:35   - Somebody for Apple to sell nose hair trimmers

01:26:37   in its stores.

01:26:38   (laughing)

01:26:39   - Oh my God.

01:26:40   - 'Cause as soon as people start using that FaceTime camera,

01:26:43   there's gonna be a run on nose hair trimmers.

01:26:46   - You know, they could sell them right next

01:26:47   to the hedge trimmers they need to trim,

01:26:50   God damn it, I totally butchered that.

01:26:51   - The foliage wall, we got it, we finished it for you.

01:26:54   - God bless America.

01:26:55   - Don't worry Casey, you almost get credit for that joke.

01:26:57   - Yeah, we're just gonna have to cut all that out.

01:27:00   Ah, goodness.

01:27:02   All right, so does that make it, it's my turn again.

01:27:06   To keep with the super nerdy topics,

01:27:10   there's a Swift package manager for OS 10.

01:27:14   I'd like to see that on iOS, which I'm sure it's coming,

01:27:16   and I'd like to see that get adopted

01:27:19   so the previously mentioned Carthage versus CocoaPods war

01:27:24   just goes away.

01:27:25   - All right, be careful what you wish for there,

01:27:27   because, you know, (laughing)

01:27:29   for all the faults you may find

01:27:31   with the existing package managers,

01:27:32   they're still more mature than this brand spanking

01:27:34   new Swift one.

01:27:35   So I don't know.

01:27:37   I think what you're asking for is like unification,

01:27:39   even if it's unifying around something that is less mature

01:27:42   at this point and yeah, I think that would be good.

01:27:44   I don't know if that's plausible for next year.

01:27:48   'Cause yeah, that's like a forward looking thing where like,

01:27:50   I would like to see this mess sorted out

01:27:52   so that I don't have to deal with these differences.

01:27:54   And there's just one way that everyone agrees on

01:27:57   of doing this thing like, you know,

01:27:59   Gem and Ruby or C-band and Perl or whatever.

01:28:02   And having one thing is better than that one thing

01:28:06   being particularly debugged or worked out or whatever.

01:28:08   But I think we're in for a couple of years

01:28:11   with more pain in that.

01:28:12   - Oh, I think you're right.

01:28:13   But I think if Apple made something really robust

01:28:16   and really solid, I think it could kind of solve the problem

01:28:20   once and for all.

01:28:21   - For Mac and iOS, probably.

01:28:24   But like then what are the,

01:28:26   your previous thing about the server side of people,

01:28:27   Maybe they come up with their own system, I don't know.

01:28:29   - Yeah, that's all I had, well, for this one anyway.

01:28:34   So John.

01:28:35   - All right, the next item is another,

01:28:38   see how simple and concise mine are?

01:28:40   New Mac Pro, new file system, new 5K display,

01:28:43   another concise one.

01:28:44   Apple Pencil for iPad non-Pro.

01:28:47   That's it, the regular, what we used to call

01:28:49   full-sized iPads, I want one of those with pencil support.

01:28:53   It is totally plausible and it would be awesome

01:28:55   and I would probably buy one.

01:28:56   - Yeah, and that honestly, that's pretty plausible.

01:28:59   I'm pretty sure, I wouldn't expect to see it in the Mini,

01:29:04   but I would expect to see it at least in the Air line.

01:29:08   The next Air probably this fall or whatever.

01:29:10   I hope they do that.

01:29:11   - I mean that's probably the main reason

01:29:13   I'm not buying a new iPad now,

01:29:15   'cause my iPad 3, it's really chugging these days.

01:29:18   Or it's slowing down, I don't know if it's iOS 9

01:29:20   that's making it slow down,

01:29:21   or just like I'm getting used to my iPhone 6 too much,

01:29:23   I just can't, I'm doing much more on my phone

01:29:25   using it as a really, really small iPad

01:29:28   'cause I just can't stand going over to my slow iPad.

01:29:30   And so I would have bought a new iPad this year

01:29:32   except I couldn't get it out of my head

01:29:33   that I don't wanna buy one this year

01:29:34   and the next year they have one with a pencil

01:29:36   because that would be cool.

01:29:38   So yeah, I would like to see that next year.

01:29:40   - All right, Marco.

01:29:43   - I would like to see general maturing of the iPad Pro

01:29:47   now that we're on this topic.

01:29:48   The iPad Pro, obviously it's very new.

01:29:51   It's like a month old or something now, so it's very new.

01:29:55   The hardware seems really great.

01:29:59   The software seems like it needs still a lot of time to bake

01:30:03   and that's both first party and third party software.

01:30:05   My worry is that this fall,

01:30:08   before the iPad Pro is even out,

01:30:10   we saw, as you mentioned earlier, Casey,

01:30:12   we saw the launch of multitasking on the iPad

01:30:14   and there are still so many incredibly useful iPad apps

01:30:19   that have not been updated for multitasking.

01:30:22   And this is not just some fluke.

01:30:25   This is because it is not really worth developers

01:30:28   putting a lot of effort into most iPad apps.

01:30:30   And that's a big problem for the iPad.

01:30:33   So I really hope that in 2016 we see

01:30:37   enough worthwhile gains on the iPad market-wise

01:30:42   to be worth developers updating their software.

01:30:44   Because as any iPad Pro owner can tell you,

01:30:46   it is really great when you're using apps

01:30:48   that resize properly to the iPad Pro

01:30:51   and support multitasking properly,

01:30:52   and it's really rough when you're not.

01:30:55   And it's bad enough on the 1024 by 768 iPad,

01:31:00   the Air and the Mini, it's bad enough on those

01:31:02   when you have something that doesn't support multitasking.

01:31:05   But it's way worse on an iPad Pro

01:31:08   when you have something that brings up

01:31:09   that tremendous old keyboard

01:31:12   because the app is being scaled up, it's really rough.

01:31:15   That will hold the iPad Pro back until it is resolved.

01:31:19   Right now, it doesn't appear as though

01:31:21   that's going to be resolved easily.

01:31:24   'Cause developers of many iPad apps

01:31:27   are really not rushing to update them

01:31:29   for these new capabilities because it has been,

01:31:33   historically it has been so hard to justify

01:31:35   putting more effort into iPad programming

01:31:38   because the market has not rewarded it

01:31:41   in a commensurate way for most app types.

01:31:44   I really hope to see that change

01:31:45   and to see a lot more iPad software

01:31:48   get updated for modern devices,

01:31:50   because if that doesn't happen,

01:31:52   a year from now we're gonna hear a lot of

01:31:54   really disappointed iPad owners talking about it.

01:31:57   - I mean, I don't have an iPad Pro,

01:31:58   so I have nothing to contribute to this,

01:32:00   but it makes sense to me.

01:32:01   - Well, but you just said,

01:32:02   you do have an iPad now with multitasking support,

01:32:04   and it does suck when you want to multitask

01:32:07   with an app that doesn't support it.

01:32:08   So this is all tied in.

01:32:09   - Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right about that.

01:32:11   - Can we just lump in the lack of an Instagram iPad app

01:32:14   in there just for the hell of it?

01:32:16   Because things that will annoy every iPad aren't yet.

01:32:19   It has always amazed me.

01:32:21   The iOS applications that don't think it's important

01:32:24   to pick your thing, to be updated for the iPhone 6 size,

01:32:29   to do anything sensible on the iPad,

01:32:31   to have an iPad app at all.

01:32:34   It's tough when you're not number one,

01:32:35   even just the number two iOS device platform.

01:32:38   It's just that's a big drop off after the iPhone.

01:32:42   - Yeah, and then while I'm on the quick iOS topic,

01:32:45   or iOS device topic here, the iPhone 7,

01:32:49   I have a quick little bullet point here of,

01:32:52   iPhone 7's coming out this year,

01:32:53   it's gonna be, if they follow the pattern,

01:32:55   which they will almost certainly follow,

01:32:57   it's gonna be a redesign year for the external casing

01:33:00   of the iPhone this year.

01:33:02   I'm not gonna wish for more battery life,

01:33:03   'cause that's not plausible.

01:33:05   - It is plausible, you could totally,

01:33:07   yes it is, it is 100% plausible.

01:33:09   You could say you want more battery life

01:33:11   in terms of the number of minutes, or like wall clock time,

01:33:14   or you could just say I want more milliamp hours.

01:33:17   - You know what, I would actually,

01:33:19   this is, I would like more milliamp hours,

01:33:20   and I know they won't do that,

01:33:22   because that would make it heavier and thicker.

01:33:23   They just won't.

01:33:25   The way Apple gets battery life these days

01:33:27   is a combination of power saving parts

01:33:29   as technology advances and software improvements

01:33:32   to kind of reduce the idle draw

01:33:35   and to get more into idle time.

01:33:38   The problem I have with the modern battery life is,

01:33:42   which I talked about to death,

01:33:42   I'm going to go over it very quickly now, is that we have not seen significant advancement

01:33:47   in the battery life of things that are under load, things that are, like processors that

01:33:53   are being used. If you're playing, you know, a game or you're using GPS or you're streaming

01:33:58   music over the cell network through Bluetooth or something, where things are not going into

01:34:01   low power states, or if you're on a laptop, you're processing photos, you're compiling,

01:34:06   you're doing, you know, you're doing hard work, you're making the computer work hard.

01:34:10   So you're not seeing big changes in the battery life under load. We're seeing almost

01:34:15   all the gains you've had in the last few years have been by stretching out idle time,

01:34:20   by making idle time more efficient, and by making the CPUs enter idle time more often.

01:34:24   So I want to see that top end be raised also. And I just think that's not going to happen.

01:34:30   I think it's very obvious that Apple is content to mostly not address that, and to

01:34:35   instead address the bottom end, because the bottom end can be addressed without bigger,

01:34:40   batteries so I don't think it's going to happen but I would like my plausible

01:34:45   thing my plausible wish list item on the iPhone 7 is to to somehow address the

01:34:51   handhold ability and make it make it more handholdable without a case because

01:34:58   the iPhone 6 is the first one I've used with the case I before that every

01:35:01   previous iPhone I've used without a case because I just liked it I don't like

01:35:05   having to use a case I like having an iPhone that just feels good enough and

01:35:08   secure enough in my hand that I don't feel the need for a case.

01:35:11   The 6 did not do that at all.

01:35:13   It was way too slippery in both shape and finish.

01:35:16   The 6S improved it a little bit in that it is still slippery in shape but the finish

01:35:20   was less slippery, the surface itself.

01:35:23   I would like to see the 7 design hopefully address the ability to hand hold it in a way

01:35:28   that feels secure and that is secure because all the previous ones I thought were way more

01:35:34   hand holdable.

01:35:36   The sixth design I think was, is pretty rough in that way.

01:35:40   I'm hoping the seventh will be better.

01:35:41   Just the handholdability.

01:35:43   The rest I know is mostly not plausible.

01:35:46   But that I want.

01:35:47   - I think you're not following my definition of plausible

01:35:50   as in able to be done in the physical world

01:35:52   without any magic, without saying,

01:35:53   I want there to be five gigahertz CPUs.

01:35:55   But anyway, for your gripability,

01:35:58   you just need a foliage wall.

01:35:59   They just need to put moss on the outside of it.

01:36:01   (laughing)

01:36:02   They're testing that right now, right now.

01:36:03   The iPhone foliage wall.

01:36:06   little just a, you know, it's like a chia pet. You just, you water it.

01:36:08   Oh, God.

01:36:09   Then you're going to use fuel cell technology to give Marco his increased battery life that

01:36:13   he is afraid to ask for. And then it'll be like a chia pet because you'll fill it up

01:36:17   with liquid and that'll run the fuel cell and the water vapor that comes out will help

01:36:21   the little hydroponic moss grow and it'll be really grippy.

01:36:25   That would be awesome.

01:36:27   And it'll be green.

01:36:28   Yeah, literally.

01:36:29   - All right, my next one, hand on heart,

01:36:33   as written in my field notes earlier today,

01:36:36   is increased battery life for the new iPhone.

01:36:40   - See, he has the guts to say it.

01:36:43   It's plausible, you can just put more battery in there,

01:36:45   you just make it thicker.

01:36:46   It's straightforward, totally doable, could be done,

01:36:50   you could say, and it would make you happy if it was done,

01:36:53   and so there you go.

01:36:54   - Yeah, and I mean, maybe the answer is just

01:36:56   don't make the next iPhone thinner.

01:36:59   Because to my memory, every single iPhone redesign

01:37:03   has been just that little bit thinner than the last.

01:37:05   Maybe you know what, Apple, you go really crazy

01:37:09   and you just don't make it thinner this year

01:37:11   and just add battery.

01:37:12   - They should make it thinner,

01:37:13   but then have a lump on the back where the extra battery is.

01:37:16   (laughing)

01:37:18   'Cause then they could say, look how much thinner it is.

01:37:21   We made it so they could make it really thin

01:37:23   and they just put it all in the lump,

01:37:24   like, oh, don't count the lump.

01:37:25   So we're not counting that in the thickness.

01:37:27   - No, I mean, what this comes down to is that

01:37:30   the thinness is not the main problem here.

01:37:33   The main problem here is weight.

01:37:34   Thinness is the consequence of that.

01:37:38   They're not minimizing battery size to make it thinner.

01:37:42   They want to make it thinner overall,

01:37:44   and they're trying to hit a weight goal,

01:37:47   and then the size of the battery,

01:37:50   batteries are the heaviest thing in there,

01:37:51   So the size of the battery is what lets them,

01:37:55   if they can keep the battery small,

01:37:57   that keeps the weight down,

01:37:59   and then they can make the enclosure

01:38:00   really small and thin around it.

01:38:03   So this is really about weight,

01:38:05   more than thinness by itself.

01:38:07   I think thinness is a secondary consequence

01:38:10   of reducing weight.

01:38:11   So what we're really asking for,

01:38:14   if we want bigger batteries,

01:38:16   what we're asking for is to make the phones heavier.

01:38:18   And that's why I'm not sure they would do it.

01:38:21   - Did the iPhone 6 get heavier than the 5S?

01:38:23   - I believe it did.

01:38:25   - I thought that was the 6S versus 6

01:38:28   because of the 3D touch stuff.

01:38:30   - Yeah, but I just mean when the phone got bigger

01:38:32   than the four inch screen, you know.

01:38:34   - Well, but that's explainable even to a regular consumer

01:38:37   because, oh look, it's bigger, thus there's more stuff.

01:38:40   - I know, but it's not unprecedented to go heavier.

01:38:45   Anyway, the amount of extra weight added by the batteries

01:38:48   is minimal, but yeah, this is reversing a trend.

01:38:50   they're making it thinner because they want it to be lighter, they want it to be lighter,

01:38:52   you know, that's the direction they're going.

01:38:54   But I still think for a list of plausible things, that that could go on the list.

01:38:58   All right, that was my last one, so I'm tapped out from here.

01:39:02   I got two related ones.

01:39:05   One since we're talking about iPhone things.

01:39:07   I don't even know if this is something that I really care about that much.

01:39:10   I guess it gets more into prediction.

01:39:11   I guess I kind of do care about it.

01:39:13   OLED screens and phones has rumors about that.

01:39:17   And for power efficiency reasons, and maybe because it will encourage more user interfaces

01:39:22   that aren't all white, and maybe because they can make it thinner and lighter.

01:39:27   I don't know all the advantages of OLED, but I feel like LCD on phones as a power draw

01:39:33   source and just that technology, especially as they incorporate more and more things in

01:39:38   there, like maybe if they ever let you use the pencil with the phone or something.

01:39:42   I would like to see Apple take the next leap with their iOS devices and start transitioning

01:39:47   to OLED everywhere because that seems to be the way things are going.

01:39:52   And my related item, actually getting off of Apple stuff for a change, is I want to

01:39:56   see more non-curved OLED televisions that concentrate on picture quality.

01:40:02   This year has been the year that OLED TVs become a thing that you can buy for a reasonable

01:40:08   price.

01:40:09   They're the new picture quality king.

01:40:10   A whole bunch of them are curved.

01:40:13   But it's really early TV buying.

01:40:16   This is not the year to buy an OLED TV.

01:40:18   Unless you just want to buy it, like I said, people ask for advice, buy it with the idea

01:40:21   that you're going to sell it.

01:40:22   Because it's like the people who bought the Plasmas the first or second year they were

01:40:25   out.

01:40:26   That's fine.

01:40:27   You get to enjoy a fancy new TV.

01:40:29   But assume you're going to sell it in a year or two.

01:40:31   Because in a year or two or three, the ones that come out are going to be so much better

01:40:34   than yours for so much less money that you're going to have to be resigned to sell it and

01:40:40   trade up to a nicer model.

01:40:42   But I feel like next year is the year when OLEDs, hopefully they get rid of the stupid

01:40:47   curve thing because I don't know who is buying these things with curves, who wants them with

01:40:51   curves, I don't.

01:40:52   There's no advantage to it, it's dumb.

01:40:54   It needs to just go away.

01:40:56   Yeah, flat OLED TVs that concentrate on picture quality.

01:41:01   Because a lot of the OLEDs now, or a lot of TVs in general, usually don't concentrate

01:41:06   on picture quality.

01:41:07   smart TV type features or you know some other gee whiz thing or they just want to say this

01:41:12   is the cheapest 4k TV you can get at this particular size I want the ones that actually

01:41:17   concentrate on picture quality not that I would particularly buy one but I just you

01:41:23   know I hate looking year after year at the TVs that are available and realizing I don't

01:41:27   want any of these TVs and just praying that my poor partially burned in plasma just keeps

01:41:32   working until I can, until someone makes a TV that I can replace it with.

01:41:37   Ultimately you can just wish that that burned-in spot eventually wears out during 2016.

01:41:40   Well, I mean, I was doing pretty well.

01:41:42   I looked at the Cartoon Network logo the other day and it has faded substantially.

01:41:46   The Destiny HUD is still kind of faintly visible.

01:41:49   But yeah, the television logos, the channel logos, are honestly worse than Destiny now.

01:41:53   There's not much you can do about the channel logos except for tell these television stations

01:41:58   because guess what?

01:41:59   OLED burns in two.

01:42:00   So please, television stations, make your logos transparent.

01:42:03   Or maybe don't show them on the screen the entire show.

01:42:06   I get it, I understand what network I'm watching.

01:42:08   Put it on for three seconds,

01:42:10   and then you come out of commercial break.

01:42:11   Or not at all, that should be a feature.

01:42:13   Like, it should be like the luxury TV network.

01:42:15   We never put our stupid logo on your screen.

01:42:18   That would be a luxury.

01:42:19   Pay us extra money and we never show an ad.

01:42:21   That is a luxury, that's why people like HBO.

01:42:23   Hey, let's watch an HBO show.

01:42:25   It just plays and there's no commercials in it.

01:42:27   And there's no breaks for commercials,

01:42:28   it just plays straight through.

01:42:30   That is a desirable experience.

01:42:33   Who doesn't like that?

01:42:34   Of course, you'd also like to get your television for free,

01:42:36   so understand advertising is have to work.

01:42:38   But for stations that, you know,

01:42:41   I feel like it's a quality of life issue.

01:42:43   For stations that have ads on them

01:42:45   that just run plain old regular TV,

01:42:47   they could advertise the fact

01:42:48   that we never cover the screen

01:42:50   with like a promo for an upcoming show.

01:42:52   I guess they have to put the rating thing in there,

01:42:54   you know, the TV, LSV, M, you know, whatever.

01:42:57   I guess I watch shows with too many letters in them.

01:42:59   Yeah, they're all HBO shows.

01:43:02   But you know they have to put the little logo up on the screen?

01:43:05   I don't know if you guys know this because I don't know if they're on iTunes.

01:43:09   Anyway, they put that in the 4x3 frame.

01:43:14   They don't put it in the corner of the 16x9 screen.

01:43:17   They put it so it would be visible if you were watching 16x9 content with the sides

01:43:22   cut off so it's 4x3.

01:43:24   I was going through my pictures on my phone the other day and I had a good picture of

01:43:27   when I was watching Sons of Anarchy back when it was on and back when it was actually kind

01:43:31   of not terrible, where the logo, the TVMA/LSV whatever logo, was dead center over an actor's

01:43:40   face.

01:43:41   Like their head was a gigantic square.

01:43:45   Like seriously?

01:43:46   Like you can't even, and it's not like you can move that out of the way, it's not like

01:43:49   when you rewatch that later that will be gone.

01:43:51   That's it.

01:43:52   That's, you're missing, you know, part of the show because of that.

01:43:54   And the same thing when the promos for the upcoming shows come up.

01:43:57   Anyway, yeah, I guess that's another bullet item.

01:44:00   Television stations.

01:44:01   It is within your power, both technically and policy-wise, to stop doing that.

01:44:06   Stop.

01:44:07   Please.

01:44:08   Stop doing that.

01:44:09   I'll pay you extra money to not put your logo on the screen and to not interrupt my program

01:44:11   with other things dancing across the bottom of my screen.

01:44:15   All right, Marco.

01:44:16   I mean, I think my overall wrap-up here for my topic list, the lesson I have on here really,

01:44:23   is for Apple to just show more focus.

01:44:26   Focus has been, I think, the attribute

01:44:30   that I've been missing the most in Apple's recent launches,

01:44:34   because they are just getting so much more broad.

01:44:36   They're addressing so many more kinds of products.

01:44:39   The lines are bigger than ever.

01:44:40   The services list is bigger than ever.

01:44:44   It does seem like their focus is not where it used to be.

01:44:47   And so I would like to just see more focus.

01:44:49   And maybe that means ending some product lines

01:44:52   or ending some initiatives that haven't worked out,

01:44:54   like all the various kits on iOS.

01:44:58   I think a lot of those have not quite worked out.

01:45:01   Just like, they've started so much,

01:45:03   a lot of it has fallen flat.

01:45:05   Maybe they should end some things

01:45:07   and actually increase their focus.

01:45:08   So we'll see what happens there.

01:45:09   I'm not really holding my breath on that one.

01:45:12   - You may be saved because the car

01:45:14   is not gonna come out in 2016,

01:45:15   so you can pretend they're getting more focused.

01:45:17   Then all of a sudden in 2018 or '19, guess what?

01:45:19   We make a car, like, oh, Apple, what happened to the Focus?

01:45:22   Yeah.

01:45:24   And you'll buy one of the cars, too.

01:45:26   That'll be fun.

01:45:26   Probably.

01:45:27   That'll be super fun.

01:45:29   Do I want that?

01:45:30   Do I want a 1.0 Apple car?

01:45:33   Whether you want one or not doesn't-- it may appear.

01:45:36   The Tesla lease will be up by then.

01:45:37   You'll be looking around.

01:45:38   You'll be restless.

01:45:39   Yeah, we'll see.

01:45:40   It's going to happen.

01:45:41   We're already replacing your Tesla.

01:45:43   It hasn't even arrived yet.

01:45:46   Goodness.

01:45:47   All right.

01:45:47   I told you I'm done.

01:45:48   So John, anything else or any closing thoughts?

01:45:51   - No, the only other item I had on my list

01:45:53   was like a vague one that I couldn't nail down.

01:45:56   There are so many remaining bugs,

01:46:00   so many sort of obvious bugs that,

01:46:03   not obvious how to fix them,

01:46:05   but obvious that something is not working correctly.

01:46:08   And you always just hope that it's someone's job somewhere

01:46:12   to fix those.

01:46:13   And it's kind of, I don't know if this one counts as,

01:46:16   This is vague and probably not really plausible because I don't know if Apple makes...

01:46:20   I don't know how much extra value Apple adds by fixing these type of bugs, but we all encounter

01:46:26   them from time to time and it just makes me wish.

01:46:29   Like the only time I can feel like this wish is not fantastical or wishing for a pony is

01:46:36   when like I know the developer who makes the application.

01:46:40   It's like one person who makes an application.

01:46:44   I know that if I report this bug, this one person will see that bug report and realize

01:46:51   that they are embarrassed that this bug happens and they don't want their application to have

01:46:55   this bug and that they'll fix it and then within a month or two it will be fixed.

01:47:02   But that just doesn't happen with things that are made by Apple.

01:47:05   If you find some small bug like that that's just kind of embarrassing where like text

01:47:09   overruns the bounding box that it's supposed to be in, or clicking on this thing doesn't

01:47:14   work until the second time you click it because of some event, you know, responder chain business

01:47:18   or whatever.

01:47:19   An individual developer who you know will want to fix that, because it doesn't seem

01:47:24   like a big deal, and they're embarrassed that they have an application that you have to

01:47:27   click a checkbox twice to make it, you know what I mean?

01:47:29   Like it's not a crasher, it's not a data loss bug, but they'll fix it.

01:47:34   Kind of just individual pride and craftsmanship or whatever.

01:47:38   And it depresses me that the larger the organization gets, the less hope you have that those type

01:47:43   of bugs will ever get addressed unless you just happen to catch somebody on a good day

01:47:47   when they don't have anything else to do, you know, when they're not working on their

01:47:50   P1s or whatever, that they just happen to go in and fix that.

01:47:53   Because fixing that could cause some other problem, it could cascade into a thing that

01:47:56   costs their multi-billion dollar company lots of money and reduces their customer sat.

01:48:01   But an individual developer, they'll just fix it in their app.

01:48:04   And I kind of like that and I kind of miss that from Apple.

01:48:07   But that's getting into -- that's why it's not on my list.

01:48:12   It's too vague or whatever.

01:48:13   Anyway, to sum up my list, I have a bunch of simple, concrete things that could totally

01:48:17   happen, that would make me happy.

01:48:20   And by the way, I think most of them, if I had to predict, will these things happen?

01:48:23   It's a pretty good shot for a lot of them.

01:48:25   So I think 2016 will be a good year for me.

01:48:28   >> Holding out hope for the file system.

01:48:31   >> Well, maybe not on that front.

01:48:33   I keep saying 2017.

01:48:34   >> Not that good.

01:48:35   >> Yeah.

01:48:36   >> Oh, goodness.

01:48:37   - Are we good?

01:48:38   - Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week,

01:48:40   Backblaze, Casper, and Blue Apron,

01:48:42   and we will see you next week.

01:48:43   ♪ Now the show is over ♪

01:48:48   ♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪

01:48:51   ♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪

01:48:54   ♪ Oh it was accidental ♪

01:48:57   ♪ John didn't do any research ♪

01:48:59   ♪ Marco and Casey wouldn't let him ♪

01:49:02   ♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪

01:49:04   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm And if you're into Twitter, you can follow

01:49:11   them @caseyliss

01:49:20   So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:49:27   S-I-R-A-C U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-S-A It's accidental (it's accidental)

01:49:36   They didn't mean to Accidental (accidental)

01:49:41   Tech broadcast so long

01:49:45   We did it!

01:49:47   Clearly you need to give much more specific instructions for Marco and I.

01:49:50   I thought I was so specific. I like, it was concise and specific instructions.

01:49:55   And just I don't know maybe I should have given more examples

01:49:59   Maybe I should have given more examples of what not to do. I don't know. This is where I get to wish for my

01:50:03   my theoretical

01:50:05   17 inch 4k MacBook Pro that with skylight might be around 5 pounds

01:50:10   17 inch 4k MacBook Pro. Mm-hmm

01:50:15   Think about it. It makes a lot of sense

01:50:18   I think you'd be better off wishing for a 17 inch iPad Pro with a keyboard that is more firmly attached

01:50:24   - And that'll be as fast as this guy like MacBook Pro

01:50:29   in like three or four years.

01:50:31   - Yeah, no I mean that's why it's a long shot stretch.

01:50:36   I'm not even sure I would buy one.

01:50:37   - Yeah, would you use a 17 inch laptop?

01:50:39   I don't know.

01:50:40   - Well.

01:50:41   - It's like bigger than you are.

01:50:42   (laughing)

01:50:43   - 'Cause like when, I'm not carrying my laptop everyday.

01:50:47   I bring it on trips when I have to get work done.

01:50:49   And whenever I do that, I am always starving

01:50:52   for more screen space.

01:50:54   - There's just screen share to your iMac at home.

01:50:56   - Wow.

01:50:58   - It's all in your mind, man.

01:51:02   - No, I mean like, we have not seen--

01:51:03   - Screen space is just like your opinion, man.

01:51:07   - I understood that reference.

01:51:08   - You're using a 5K iMac, you're using a bigger screen,

01:51:12   but it's on a smaller screen, but it's bigger.

01:51:15   There's so many pixels, you won't notice the difference.

01:51:19   - No, I mean like, we have, everyone's like always,

01:51:21   oh, the 17-inch was this giant, heavy aircraft carrier.

01:51:24   And yes, the last time we saw one, it was.

01:51:26   But now, the 17-inch, I think last time we saw it

01:51:30   was something like six pounds, right, something like that.

01:51:33   But at the same time, the 15-inch was five or five and a half

01:51:38   while the 17-inch was six or six and a half.

01:51:41   So you can see the ratio there,

01:51:43   it's not that much more than the 15-inch.

01:51:45   Well now, since then, the 15-inch has gotten way smaller

01:51:49   and lighter with the retina transition

01:51:51   With the Skylake tradition,

01:51:52   it's probably gonna be even more so.

01:51:54   So I'm guessing it would be possible with Skylake

01:51:57   to make a 17 inch that had reasonable battery life

01:52:00   that is roughly five and a half pounds.

01:52:03   And maybe even five pounds,

01:52:05   depending on how thin they can go with the battery

01:52:07   without having it be too small.

01:52:09   So that is different.

01:52:13   It puts a different spin on things.

01:52:14   I mean, with the Skylake thing,

01:52:17   I bet we're gonna see a lot more people saying,

01:52:19   you know what, now that it's so much thinner and lighter,

01:52:22   I might go 15 inch next time,

01:52:23   where I would have gone 13 inch before.

01:52:25   You know, I think we'll start seeing people

01:52:28   justify going bigger.

01:52:29   In the same way, like, look, all the iPad people

01:52:32   just discovered, you know what, after all,

01:52:35   having a much bigger one is more productive.

01:52:37   Look at that.

01:52:38   Like, the same thing applies with computers, with laptops.

01:52:41   Like, as they're gonna get thinner and lighter,

01:52:43   we're gonna see a lot more people say,

01:52:45   you know what, I was gonna go Air,

01:52:46   but now I'll go 13 inch Pro.

01:52:48   I was gonna go with 13 inch Pro,

01:52:49   now I'm gonna go with 15 inch Pro,

01:52:50   'cause I felt one in the store

01:52:52   and it was so much lighter than I expected.

01:52:54   And wow, all this extra screen space is really nice.

01:52:57   I can get a lot more stuff done.

01:52:59   Like obviously this is not news to people using computers,

01:53:02   whereas it seems like it's news to iPad people,

01:53:03   but you know, that might happen now with the Mac line

01:53:06   where if they have a bigger one, you know what?

01:53:08   That actually is pretty nice.

01:53:11   So I don't know, again, it's just a stretch

01:53:13   and I'm not even sure I would buy one,

01:53:14   but that would be really cool I think.

01:53:17   - It's an opportunity for them to make up

01:53:19   for the sins of the past and actually put

01:53:21   a different keyboard on it than the one

01:53:22   that's on the MacBook One.

01:53:24   - Right, well and that's the other thing too,

01:53:25   like I didn't mention the keyboards,

01:53:26   but like I would expect all the new Skylitic MacBook Pros,

01:53:31   if they're gonna be redesigned at all,

01:53:32   which it sounds like they probably will be,

01:53:33   I would expect them to get not the MacBook One keyboard,

01:53:36   but the keyboard that's in the new standalone Apple keyboard.

01:53:39   The Magic, is it called the Magic Keyboard?

01:53:41   Whatever it is, the new standalone keyboard.

01:53:43   I'm guessing it gets at that one,

01:53:44   which is not nearly as bad as the MacBook One keyboard.

01:53:48   It is in that style, but it is done, I think, way better.

01:53:53   - I don't mean like in a key travel,

01:53:56   I mean as in more keys,

01:53:58   specifically the 17 inch,

01:53:59   you have so much more room to put keys.

01:54:00   So put full-size arrow keys,

01:54:02   and put all the home and end keys,

01:54:04   and page up and page down,

01:54:05   instead of taking,

01:54:06   remember, this was one of my early,

01:54:08   I reviewed one of the non-unibody aluminum PowerBook G4s

01:54:13   for Ars Technica and like a series of screenshots showing the same keyboard is on the 12 inch,

01:54:19   the 15 inch, and the 17 inch. Literally the same keyboard. And you know, on the 12 inch

01:54:24   it goes edge to edge. And on the 17 inch it's this vast sea of aluminum with this tiny little

01:54:28   keyboard floating in it. It's like, you have so much more room. Add more keys, please.

01:54:34   I don't know, I assume they wouldn't, which would be sad. It's just this giant, you know,

01:54:39   because as thin as you make it, the aluminum area has to be the same as the size of the

01:54:43   screen like you're not gonna make the bottom smaller than the top and so you

01:54:46   have you have this huge area with which to put keys and you just decide this is

01:54:51   tiny little island in the middle the size of the MacBook one it's the only

01:54:53   area where you're allowed to have keys

01:54:56   [