147: Here I Am, I'm a Battery


00:00:00   - Oh, the only question is,

00:00:01   are we gonna make Brent Simmons angry with the comma splice,

00:00:04   and here I am on my battery.

00:00:06   You can make it a semicolon, you can make it a period,

00:00:08   if you leave it as a comma, it's a comma splice,

00:00:10   but I feel like it's an informal,

00:00:11   and since it is a someone speaking,

00:00:14   you could consider it someone speaking,

00:00:15   sometimes people speak in things that are not sentences.

00:00:18   - I definitely would not do a semicolon,

00:00:20   'cause that just is wrong.

00:00:21   I mean, I know it's grammatically right,

00:00:23   but I just hate them.

00:00:24   - You just hate, like on principle, like ever?

00:00:27   - Not never, but it takes a lot

00:00:29   for me to use a semicolon.

00:00:30   - What does it take?

00:00:31   - It needs to be really, really worth it.

00:00:32   - What does it take?

00:00:33   - It has to really be the right thing to use there

00:00:36   and there has to be no good alternatives.

00:00:38   That's why I really rarely use semicolons

00:00:42   'cause I don't like them.

00:00:43   - So then it'd be period, here I am, period.

00:00:45   But anyway, I just leave it as a comma.

00:00:47   - Well, but it has to be two periods.

00:00:48   It has to be here I am, period, I'm a battery, period.

00:00:50   - Yeah, but we don't put periods in titles, so yeah.

00:00:52   So we'll just leave the comma in there.

00:00:53   We'll just dare Brent to yell at us about it.

00:00:55   Go ahead, come and get us.

00:00:58   The entire internet wrote in to tell us that there is already a lightning to headphone

00:01:03   jack adapter, which is not at all useful if you're anywhere other than your desk.

00:01:08   But in the defense of the entire internet, we were talking mostly about using this sort

00:01:14   of adapter at work as you listen to podcasts or music all day long.

00:01:17   Apple sells a lightning to headphone jack adapter with pass-through lightning for charging.

00:01:23   It's the $40 lightning dock, which I believe came out recently, didn't it?

00:01:27   But that's got like a DAC in it and that's for like the digital, the headphones that

00:01:30   take digital audio over the lighting port.

00:01:32   Like that's not really relevant to what we were discussing, which was if they replaced

00:01:35   the headphone jack with the lightning port and still wanted to support regular plain

00:01:39   old analog headphones with an adapter that did not require, you know, any signal conversion

00:01:45   or anything.

00:01:46   It would just, you know, be a metal pass through to the audio pins of the headphone.

00:01:52   And that's not what the lighting dock does.

00:01:54   So how would you describe Lightning Dock instead then?

00:01:58   - It is basically a thing to let you both plug in

00:02:02   the current crop of Lightning-compatible headphones

00:02:07   and also a charter at the same time.

00:02:09   - Fair enough.

00:02:10   One way or another, this is not the sort of thing

00:02:12   that we would expect one to take running around with them

00:02:15   as they're trying to use it to adapt Lightning

00:02:18   to a regular headphone jack.

00:02:20   This would serve the purpose for desk use,

00:02:23   not for mobile use. And that's mostly what we were talking about last episode, but yes.

00:02:29   We wanted to publicly acknowledge on behalf of the entire internet who wrote into us that

00:02:33   we are aware that this exists. So Eric Michael's Ober had a little bit of

00:02:40   feedback with regard to why else you would want to use the Lightning port for audio.

00:02:45   He pointed out that noise-canceling headphones don't need their own battery or any other

00:02:50   their charging mechanism because they can just draw power right off the lightning port,

00:02:55   much like the Apple Pencil does.

00:02:56   Which you may or may not want. Like, do you really want your noise-canceling headphones

00:03:00   sucking power from your phone? Maybe. Maybe not.

00:03:02   Well, you know, we have all this extra battery power on the phones. Might as well use it

00:03:06   for other purposes.

00:03:07   So much is practically bursting out of the phone there so much battery power.

00:03:12   Well played, sir. We'll get there. All right. And then I have no idea who we're attributing

00:03:17   this to.

00:03:18   - MX, good old MX.

00:03:20   - Okay, and he or she said that USB type C

00:03:24   already supports analog audio.

00:03:25   Check out appendix A in the spec

00:03:27   and we will link to the spec in the show notes.

00:03:30   John, I believe you've bolded some passages here.

00:03:32   Would you like to share that with the group?

00:03:33   - Yeah, the spec by the way is a PDF.

00:03:35   Like we're linking to the page that has the PDF on it.

00:03:37   So you can just download the PDF and find this.

00:03:38   But in appendix A--

00:03:39   - Sounds fun.

00:03:40   - Yeah, you will find out that,

00:03:42   the reason this comes up is because last time we're like,

00:03:45   I said one of the advantages of lightning

00:03:46   is that if Apple wants to add support for plain old analog audio either by adding those

00:03:53   two weird side contacts that I seem to remember seeing somewhere and I still can't find, or

00:03:57   just by repurposing the pins because the whole deal with Lightning is you can use the different

00:03:59   pins for different purposes, it's not sort of hardwired so to speak to do a particular

00:04:05   thing, that Apple has the flexibility to do that.

00:04:07   They don't have to wait for the USB committee or whatever to agree but it turns out USB-C

00:04:11   already supports analog audio.

00:04:13   I should have figured that since it's an old standard.

00:04:17   If you have your USB-C connector in audio adapter accessory

00:04:22   mode, it just takes a certain number of pins in the USB

00:04:24   and uses them for the same exact signals that go over 3.5

00:04:27   million or headphone jack.

00:04:28   So that's already supported in USB-C.

00:04:30   And by the way, the other thing I found out

00:04:31   about USB-C relevant to our conversation last time

00:04:33   about whether Apple was all in on Lightning

00:04:35   or whether they were going to eventually switch to USB-C,

00:04:38   USB-C is bigger than Lightning.

00:04:40   This shows how many USB-C devices I have in my house.

00:04:42   I'm pretty sure I have zero, maybe I have one, I don't know about it somewhere, but

00:04:46   anyway I've never, I don't have an idea of what they're like, but looking it up online

00:04:49   afterwards USB-C is slightly bigger and that pretty much dooms Apple to ever switch to

00:04:54   it because they're going to be like, "well, lightning is smaller so why would we ever

00:04:59   switch to that thing?"

00:05:00   So I think we're in it for the long haul for lightning even though USB-C apparently already

00:05:05   supports analog auto and you could definitely make that passive connector thing for old

00:05:10   style headphones if you were using USB-C.

00:05:12   Excellent.

00:05:13   Speaking of USB, and in this case USB 3, we are now getting USB 3 speeds from the new

00:05:20   Lightning test SD card camera reader that came out just in the last couple of days as

00:05:26   we record.

00:05:27   And for the iPad Pro, you get USB 3 speeds on that.

00:05:31   And that's pretty exciting.

00:05:32   I've never actually used one of these.

00:05:33   Do you guys have one of them?

00:05:35   I have the USB one, which I use for like audio purposes, which is actually, it's like this

00:05:40   totally undocumented thing that it can do.

00:05:43   You can plug in a lot of USB audio interfaces to it

00:05:45   and have different sound inputs or outputs

00:05:47   for your iOS devices.

00:05:48   And that actually has worked on iPhones and iPads

00:05:50   basically forever.

00:05:52   But my father-in-law used the SD card one

00:05:56   for a little while on his iPad.

00:05:58   It was fine, it was okay.

00:06:00   - I think what interests me most about these USB3 speeds

00:06:03   in the iPad Pro is for people like me,

00:06:06   maybe I'm rare in this, who still hook up their iOS devices

00:06:09   to one of their big computers and do an encrypted local backup instead of just relying on the

00:06:14   iCloud backup, it takes so long to do it at USB 2.0 speeds.

00:06:18   So if I could get USB 3.0 speeds when doing a local backup to my computer through iTunes,

00:06:22   I would really appreciate that, even for my dinky 32 and 64 gig devices, let alone if

00:06:27   we got like a 128 gig iPad Pro.

00:06:29   So I'm assuming you have one, Marco.

00:06:31   I'm assuming if you were to hook it up to your Mac with the USB cable, it would still

00:06:35   be USB 2.0 speeds?

00:06:37   As far as I know, because I think all the existing Lightning to USB cables, I think

00:06:40   are all USB 2 cables.

00:06:42   So I don't think that's doable yet, but hopefully over time that'll be solved just in time for

00:06:48   people to stop ever syncing their things to their computers.

00:06:49   Well, I don't know if you want to ever stop, because as people who have ever restored from

00:06:54   iCloud can attest, it's such a super pain.

00:06:56   Oh yeah, I will still do it, and Tiff will still do it, but I think we are already in

00:07:01   the extreme minority there.

00:07:02   Anyway, that's the accessory they need to release.

00:07:04   forget about this whole, you know, like the whole exciting thing was like, "Wow, the

00:07:08   Lightning port supports USB 3.0 speeds, but only in the iPad Pro," and, you know, surely

00:07:11   that will trickle down and that'll be great. But I don't want an SD card reader. I want

00:07:15   a thing that plugs into my computer for it.

00:07:17   Steven: Yeah, for what it's worth, I actually put this on my Christmas list for this year.

00:07:21   I don't know if I would necessarily—you know, it's a great gift because it's the

00:07:25   sort of thing I wouldn't necessarily buy for myself, but hey, if somebody handed it

00:07:28   to me, that'd be pretty awesome. And the reason I want one is because there are probably

00:07:32   going to come times when I'm traveling with our Micro Four Thirds camera, I didn't decide

00:07:37   to bring a laptop with me and I only have my iPad.

00:07:40   And I could connect the camera to the iPad by way of Wi-Fi, but it's actually surprisingly

00:07:47   slow to do it that way.

00:07:49   And so I think it would be a lot easier to just pull the SD card out of the camera and

00:07:54   attach it to the iPad or phone for that matter, and suck some pictures off of there that way

00:07:59   in order to post on Instagram or maybe just send to friends or family or what have you.

00:08:04   So I'm curious to see if I end up getting this for Christmas, and if I do, I'll report

00:08:08   back.

00:08:09   But I agree with you, Marco, by and large, that it's not a lot of people that would want

00:08:12   this, but I kind of want one because I think it would be useful.

00:08:15   It's kind of a testament to the crappiness of wireless.

00:08:17   We talked about the last show about like, is Wi-Fi above the level of flakiness?

00:08:21   But how many people use Wi-Fi syncing to iTunes?

00:08:23   Maybe that's not, you can't blame Wi-Fi for that.

00:08:25   You can just blame iTunes because there's so much.

00:08:28   But even with cameras, so many cameras have Wi-Fi, or remember that stupid iFi thing,

00:08:33   like it was the SD card with Wi-Fi built in or whatever.

00:08:35   And then it's like desktop Linux, like the next, oh, this one, the new model we just

00:08:38   made is finally the good one, and it never is.

00:08:41   For the cameras, for the cameras that have built in Wi-Fi support, that's what you want.

00:08:45   You want that and you also want it to work.

00:08:47   But you want it until you try it.

00:08:49   Yeah, I know, but what's the problem?

00:08:52   Wi-Fi itself, technologically speaking, is an okay technology.

00:08:57   We all use wireless devices all around our house and they more or less maintain the connection

00:09:01   and we get reasonable speeds based on what we think the signal strength is and yet when

00:09:04   we have a super expensive camera 30 inches away from a super expensive iPad, the best

00:09:11   way we have to talk to them is to open up the camera in a little waterproof or water

00:09:15   resistant compartment, pull out this tiny little card, plug this little thing into the

00:09:18   lightning port, shove the little, it's just, you're right there guys, you both have radios,

00:09:22   you both, like what's the problem here?

00:09:24   Is it because camera manufacturers don't know how to do Wi-Fi stacks?

00:09:28   I don't know what the deal is, but it's sad.

00:09:30   - Well, they all have their own apps, basically.

00:09:32   It's like my camera has built in Wi-Fi, finally.

00:09:35   Like it took me years to finally get one that had that.

00:09:38   But in order to use it, I have to install Sony's dumb app on my phone, which works about

00:09:42   a third of the time.

00:09:43   And when you do finally get it to work, you kind of regret that you got it to work, because

00:09:48   it's just so mediocre and so slow.

00:09:51   It actually would have been faster to just take the car out of the camera and shove it

00:09:55   into this thing than it is to do the Wi-Fi thing.

00:09:58   Yeah, but that feels barbaric, though, taking things apart and putting them together.

00:10:02   I feel like I'm using a VCR, but it's faster.

00:10:06   I completely agree.

00:10:07   My Olympus, it isn't—the app is relatively reliable, but it is astonishingly slow to

00:10:16   transfer pictures between the camera and the phone or the iPad.

00:10:20   And it's very, very frustrating.

00:10:21   Now, the app is nice in that, for general things, like it'll let me geotag based on

00:10:26   what the phone is doing.

00:10:28   So it'll take a log of all the places I go and all the timestamps and whatnot, and then

00:10:32   it'll send those to the phone and then geotag all the pictures on the phone, or excuse me,

00:10:36   send those to the camera.

00:10:37   And it'll geotag all the pictures on the camera, which I really like on the occasions where

00:10:41   I'm not just staying put somewhere.

00:10:43   And it also lets you do like a remote viewfinder sort of thing.

00:10:46   So much like you can with the watch and the phone, it'll let you take pictures remotely,

00:10:51   which is really nice if you're too socially awkward to say to somebody, "Hey, can you

00:10:55   take our picture?"

00:10:57   But I cannot say enough how awfully slow it is to transfer pictures.

00:11:01   And because of that, I agree with you, Marco.

00:11:03   I just end up taking the damn card out of the camera and putting it in a computer.

00:11:07   All right.

00:11:09   And we have some good news this week.

00:11:11   Our long national nightmare is over.

00:11:14   We now have an Apple remote app for iOS that works with the new Apple TV

00:11:19   Which would be more exciting to me if I had a new Apple TV. Well, we don't have a my understanding

00:11:24   I haven't tested this but my understanding is it's not as if they released a new version of the remote app that works with

00:11:29   Apple TV. It's the opposite. They recent released a new version of the Apple TV OS that makes the existing remote app work with it

00:11:36   Is that correct based on your understanding or experimentation? Oh, I didn't try it. I thought that was correct

00:11:42   - Correct.

00:11:43   - I mean, I think they did eventually release

00:11:44   a new remote app as well,

00:11:46   but I think before they even released the new remote app,

00:11:48   what I read was that if you just updated the tvOS,

00:11:52   your remote app would work with it

00:11:54   even before they released the eventual remote app update.

00:11:57   - Yeah, that was the idea.

00:11:58   - Yeah, it's too late for all of us for the setup stuff.

00:12:00   And there's still promises of like the real remote app

00:12:03   that's gonna let you swipe around on your phone,

00:12:06   like the touchpad, and use the accelerometers,

00:12:08   and just basically be a full-fledged replacement

00:12:11   for the new Apple TV remote rather than just,

00:12:14   please, for the love of God, give us an onscreen keyboard

00:12:16   that we can type on with our fingers

00:12:17   instead of having to swipe back and forth

00:12:19   on the number line or the letter line

00:12:21   or whatever the hell we're calling that thing.

00:12:22   - So interestingly, for whatever it's worth,

00:12:25   we recently bought a PS4, meaning yesterday.

00:12:28   So I got a chance to try, you know,

00:12:31   what is a current, well, recent-ish effort

00:12:34   at a regular onscreen keyboard

00:12:35   by using Sony's little dumb thing?

00:12:36   Before I wrote that, you could just plug in a USB keyboard.

00:12:39   About halfway through the process, I realized that.

00:12:40   But for the first half of the process,

00:12:42   I was just using their little built-in thing.

00:12:44   And just using the built-in keyboard

00:12:46   with their controller and the D-pad

00:12:48   and a couple of buttons on the shoulder buttons

00:12:50   to do like, you know, done and delete and stuff.

00:12:53   My God, it's so much better.

00:12:55   Like, I was able to enter text so much faster

00:12:58   in this regular on-screen keyboard using a regular D-pad

00:13:03   that I had never used before than I still am today

00:13:07   on the new Apple TV that I've been using now

00:13:09   for like a month or something.

00:13:10   - Let me give you a pro tip.

00:13:12   Do not use the D-pad,

00:13:13   I can't believe you suffer through

00:13:15   like a barbarian using the D-pad to pick from the keyboard.

00:13:18   You get one finger or thumb on the touch pad

00:13:21   on the PS4 controller and one finger or thumb

00:13:23   on the X button to select.

00:13:25   - Wait, there's a touch pad?

00:13:25   - Way, way faster.

00:13:28   Oh my God, is it so much faster.

00:13:29   - Wait, is that the big gray rectangle in the middle?

00:13:32   - Yeah, it's the big thing in the middle of the controller.

00:13:34   - I had no idea that was a touch pad.

00:13:36   - Yeah, you'll find out in games that it is as well.

00:13:38   But anyway.

00:13:39   won't TIFF might. It is so much easier because like it's not a great

00:13:42   trackpad it's like the one on Casey's Dell like you know it's a crappy one but

00:13:46   it's so much better than going down down right right up up down down because you

00:13:49   could basically just go mousing around to a top tap tap tap it just feels so

00:13:53   much more freeing than being constrained by like the grid like you're in a Tron

00:13:56   game trying to play light cycles to get around the keyboard. Well honestly I mean

00:14:00   I think what made it so much faster for me it rather than the way the the Apple

00:14:04   TV one is done besides the fact that it had more than one row Apple but I think

00:14:08   What made it so much faster is that you can kind of,

00:14:11   when you have this digital input method of the D-pad,

00:14:14   you can just know, all right, go over for, up to,

00:14:16   like you can just do it.

00:14:17   It's so precise that I was able to flip through things

00:14:21   really quickly on that and way more accurately.

00:14:23   I made, I think I made one mistake

00:14:25   in the entire setup process.

00:14:27   On Apple TV, I constantly hit the wrong letter, constantly.

00:14:31   - Yeah, and the other good thing is they're sort of

00:14:33   smart auto-suggestion stuff, kind of like the stuff

00:14:36   from Android that Apple copied in iOS.

00:14:39   Like above the keyboard, a series of words appears.

00:14:41   - Right.

00:14:42   - Or like when I'm sending messages

00:14:43   to people related to Destiny,

00:14:45   like I basically typed the first letter of a word

00:14:48   and it knows which word I'm trying to write.

00:14:50   And then I just select it from the pre-selected things

00:14:52   and type the next first letter

00:14:54   and then select it from the pre-selected setup.

00:14:55   'Cause I don't send a lot of messages.

00:14:57   I should just hook up a keyboard

00:14:58   because it's so painful to try to do it with the pad.

00:15:00   But the audio correction thing,

00:15:02   when you don't say a lot through the interface,

00:15:05   The seven words you do say are always the first suggestion.

00:15:07   So it's pretty good,

00:15:08   but you definitely do check out the touchpad.

00:15:10   It's a little bit awkward to hold it.

00:15:11   So you're like, wait, so I have my thumb on the touchpad

00:15:13   and then my other thumb on the X button,

00:15:15   just like the key, isn't that kind of weird?

00:15:16   And how do I hit the shoulders?

00:15:17   But trust me, it's really great.

00:15:19   - Fair enough.

00:15:22   And then you have a correction, I believe, John,

00:15:24   from last episode.

00:15:26   - Yeah, I made an offhand mark about Swift and Foundation

00:15:30   and getting rid of the NS prefix,

00:15:31   how currently you can, a lot of the APIs,

00:15:35   you can use Swift strings and NS strings

00:15:38   and they will convert between each other

00:15:39   and I referred to that as like a free bridging thing

00:15:42   or toll free bridging or zero cost bridging or whatever.

00:15:45   It's not zero cost.

00:15:46   Swift and foundation bridging is not toll free.

00:15:49   I was thinking of the toll free bridging

00:15:51   between core foundation and foundation.

00:15:52   Too many freaking words that foundation.

00:15:54   But anyway, just to clear that up.

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00:18:03   - Excellent.

00:18:04   All right, so Apple released a thing this week,

00:18:09   and everyone's upset about it.

00:18:13   I kind of am too.

00:18:15   I kind of am too, you guys.

00:18:16   They have released the iPhone 6S Smart Battery Case Panamera.

00:18:21   - This is unfair to the Panamera,

00:18:23   'cause the Panamera has a fairly continuous curve

00:18:26   over the back of the car.

00:18:27   It's big and it's awkwardly shaped in profile,

00:18:30   but it's not as if, this is closer to the bangle trunk

00:18:34   on the 7 Series, remember that one?

00:18:36   - Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.

00:18:38   - This looks like they just shipped

00:18:39   an engineering prototype.

00:18:41   - Yeah, it kinda does.

00:18:42   - They were assigned, hey, can you make this weekend,

00:18:45   just make something that works?

00:18:47   And somebody got the wrong memo

00:18:49   and shipped it as a real product.

00:18:50   - All right, so let's describe this

00:18:51   for people listening to the show far disconnected in time.

00:18:53   Imagine an iPhone 6S with Apple silicone case on it.

00:18:58   - With 20% battery life,

00:18:59   'cause it's three o'clock in the afternoon.

00:19:01   - Give it a chin.

00:19:02   So take the battery case

00:19:05   and extend it downwards a little bit.

00:19:07   And so like that it's got an extra chin hanging off.

00:19:10   Don't worry about why for now.

00:19:11   And then on the back of the phone,

00:19:14   take like, I don't know, maybe seven, eight,

00:19:18   now maybe 15 playing cards from a deck of cards,

00:19:21   put it in there and then slather it with silicone again.

00:19:24   (laughing)

00:19:25   So in other words, there's a lump on the back of this phone

00:19:28   shaped like a rectangle, like a rounded rectangle

00:19:31   that is smaller than the back of the phone.

00:19:33   It is both narrower than the phone

00:19:35   and significantly shorter than the phone.

00:19:37   So there are edges of what look like

00:19:40   just a plain old iPhone 6S in a silicone case with a chin

00:19:43   poking out all around this thing.

00:19:46   And it looks very strange because most other battery cases,

00:19:48   most other third-party battery cases that I've seen,

00:19:51   try to put like a sort of smooth hump

00:19:54   on the back of the thing.

00:19:55   Either they try to just make it to be really thin

00:19:57   and make it look like, is that actually a battery case?

00:19:59   Or is that just like a really thick case

00:20:00   and you can't even tell?

00:20:02   Or you can totally tell it looks like a bar of soap,

00:20:04   but it's essentially a smooth curve

00:20:06   over the entire back surface of the phone,

00:20:08   top to bottom, left to right edge.

00:20:10   And this is the first battery case I can think of,

00:20:12   see, that does not do that,

00:20:14   that does not try to make a big curve over the back,

00:20:16   and also doesn't try to be so thin

00:20:17   it looks like it's not a battery case,

00:20:19   it looks like there's a rectangular thing

00:20:22   hiding inside the back of your iPhone case.

00:20:25   - Yeah.

00:20:26   - It's bad.

00:20:27   - So when you guys say it's bad,

00:20:28   what you're saying is it's ugly.

00:20:30   Is that what you're basically getting at?

00:20:31   - Well, yeah, I mean--

00:20:32   - Yes.

00:20:33   - If somebody would've told you ahead of time

00:20:35   that hey, Apple's gonna make a battery case,

00:20:37   what you would imagine in your head

00:20:40   would be very different than this, you know?

00:20:42   because we expect Apple stuff to be, at minimum, decent looking, often times at the expense

00:20:50   of functionality these days, which is unfortunate, but obviously you expect thinness, you expect

00:20:55   kind of smooth lines, nice curves, kind of minimal design aesthetic, and this is none

00:21:05   of those things. It doesn't look anything like Apple designed it. If you would have

00:21:11   seen this in a weird store window on the streets of Manhattan, you would have assumed it was

00:21:16   a knockoff. Like, it does not look like an Apple product. And in the world of battery

00:21:22   cases, there is no option in a battery case that doesn't look like crap in some way.

00:21:28   They all look like crap in some way.

00:21:30   What about the really thin ones? The ones that are like, you can't even tell they're

00:21:33   a battery case practically. It just looks like it might just be a thick regular case.

00:21:37   I think those look pretty good, with one exception that I'll get to in a second when I tell

00:21:41   I'm not gonna tell you about what I think

00:21:41   of the aesthetics of this thing,

00:21:42   but I think you can't say that they're all ugly.

00:21:46   Like, a lot of them do make the phone bigger,

00:21:48   but the really thin ones that just give you

00:21:50   like a little bit more battery,

00:21:51   I think some of them look pretty good.

00:21:52   - Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:21:53   - Right, and by the way,

00:21:54   those usually give more battery than this.

00:21:55   But anyway, there are some that look okay on Amazon pages.

00:21:58   Like, there's an Anker Ultra Slim that,

00:22:01   like, if you look in the Wall Street Journal

00:22:02   by a review of this by Joanna Stern,

00:22:04   there was a picture of three of them next to each other.

00:22:06   There was the Apple one, there was one from Anker,

00:22:08   and I think there was a Mophie,

00:22:09   there was some other one in the middle,

00:22:11   and you would think that in the review

00:22:15   of the Apple battery case, in a comparison photo

00:22:19   next to these way cheaper, way higher capacity cases

00:22:23   from these brands that are not known for great design,

00:22:26   especially like Anker, known for being very utilitarian

00:22:29   and being good value, but not exactly

00:22:31   for stunningly good design, you would assume

00:22:35   that the Apple option in that photo

00:22:37   should obviously be the best looking one.

00:22:39   and you'd probably assume that it would be the most expensive and you'd be right,

00:22:43   you'd probably assume it wouldn't have the best capacity and you'd be right, but

00:22:47   to see it not even be the best looking one while also being the most expensive and having

00:22:52   the worst capacity I think is disappointing to say the least. And that's not to say

00:22:57   that you can't, that isn't to say that they could have done a massively better job

00:23:03   as a battery case with their goals in mind. And we'll talk about their goals in a minute

00:23:08   because we've gotten a little bit more information

00:23:10   since it was released, but it sure does seem like,

00:23:14   they, I don't know, they were given a hard problem,

00:23:17   but it seems like a very disappointing output

00:23:21   to that hard problem, and all of this is underscored

00:23:23   by my base level frustration of,

00:23:27   this shouldn't even be necessary for most people.

00:23:29   Like, 'cause the capacity that it has,

00:23:32   I think it's roughly 1800 milliamp hours,

00:23:36   So by most of the reviews, it can charge the phone

00:23:39   about 80% of the way maybe.

00:23:42   So it isn't the full additional charge,

00:23:45   but it's like you can drain the phone down most of the way

00:23:47   and then you can charge it back up most of the way back up.

00:23:50   Honestly, when I need an extra battery,

00:23:53   I don't usually need more than that.

00:23:56   Like that is a good amount for me.

00:23:58   But people who buy battery cases today,

00:24:00   that's like the smallest you can get

00:24:02   and there's a lot of much bigger options

00:24:03   where you can get like two to four times

00:24:06   the battery capacity in other battery cases.

00:24:08   So it depends on how you're using the phone.

00:24:09   If you're doing like GPS all day as part of your job,

00:24:12   then I could see you needing a lot more.

00:24:14   But honestly, in my use, I complain a lot about the iPhone

00:24:18   having not quite enough battery life and being too thin

00:24:20   and them seemingly prioritizing

00:24:22   thickness and lightness over usable batteries.

00:24:25   But the difference between what the 6 and the 6S has,

00:24:29   have, has, the difference between what they have

00:24:32   and what I need is not that big.

00:24:34   I would be very, very happy if they took the battery

00:24:37   of the 6S and just made it like 25 or 30% bigger,

00:24:41   at most 50% bigger.

00:24:43   You know, like that's all it needs.

00:24:44   It doesn't need to be three times as large, you know?

00:24:48   It needs almost what it has, but just add like,

00:24:51   you know, 25 to 50% more.

00:24:53   That's what it really needs for me.

00:24:55   And from people I've seen in real life,

00:24:57   people I've talked to, it seems like that would cover

00:24:59   way more people's needs than getting anything giant

00:25:04   or the status quo.

00:25:06   Now obviously Apple has way more data than I do,

00:25:08   although honestly I question the metrics they collect

00:25:12   and how well that covers the real world usage.

00:25:16   But anyway, that's a different discussion.

00:25:19   I'm just very sad that Apple's response to the 6S

00:25:23   having clearly, having poor enough battery life

00:25:26   for enough people that this was necessary

00:25:29   to make and release, that they take that indicator

00:25:33   and they say, well, the right answer here is that.

00:25:37   Like that case is the right answer to this problem.

00:25:39   Rather than, if you just put in a battery

00:25:42   that's like 25% bigger to begin with,

00:25:45   then the additional mass and complexity

00:25:49   and efficiency of using that extra battery power

00:25:52   is a tiny fraction of the bulk and the mass

00:25:56   and the complexity of this case.

00:25:58   Because you don't have an extra casing around it,

00:26:00   you don't have extra framing for rigidity

00:26:02   in the middle section,

00:26:03   you don't have the whatever the heck

00:26:04   that passive antenna thing is they're talking about,

00:26:06   I have no idea what that is,

00:26:07   but you don't have that,

00:26:08   you don't have the charging circuitry,

00:26:09   the discharging circuitry,

00:26:11   the reporting back to the phone of your battery level

00:26:13   and then having two different battery bars

00:26:14   and notification center to worry about.

00:26:16   It's so much simpler if you just make the battery

00:26:19   25% bigger in the phone,

00:26:21   and you cover so much more with that kind of approach.

00:26:24   And I know they don't do that

00:26:25   because they want it to be thinner and lighter,

00:26:27   and they think they're making the right decision,

00:26:29   and maybe they are, but it's frustrating

00:26:31   to be on my side of it when you think they're not,

00:26:33   and this is their solution to that.

00:26:35   - Yeah, I completely agree.

00:26:36   You know, I was thinking about it,

00:26:38   and do you remember that sort of cheesy,

00:26:40   but also sort of entertaining video they showed

00:26:42   before WWDC 2013 with like the dancing blobs of ink,

00:26:47   and it was a Thousand Nose video?

00:26:50   Well, I went and found a copy on YouTube,

00:26:53   which we'll link in the show notes.

00:26:54   That video starts as follows.

00:26:56   "If everyone is busy making everything,

00:26:59   "how can anyone perfect anything?"

00:27:01   I feel like I have nothing more to say now.

00:27:05   - That's a mouthful.

00:27:06   - Well, it is a mouthful, but I mean,

00:27:08   we've been talking a lot about how spread thin

00:27:12   we assume Apple to be these days.

00:27:14   Now, I think we're generally referring to software

00:27:16   when we're talking about that, but there's a lot more,

00:27:19   there's a lot more products in Apple's portfolio today

00:27:22   than there were in 2013.

00:27:23   And I feel like this is just an example

00:27:27   of somebody just phoning it in.

00:27:29   And maybe I'm missing the boat,

00:27:30   but jeez, this thing looks just ugly.

00:27:33   It's just, it's not smooth.

00:27:36   I mean, it's smooth, but it's not.

00:27:38   It's bulbous and it's just, ugh.

00:27:40   - I mean, honestly, if I were to get a battery case,

00:27:44   I would consider this one simply because

00:27:46   I like the feel of Apple's first-party cases.

00:27:49   Especially the silicone ones,

00:27:50   I like their feel over the buttons,

00:27:52   the sleep/wake and the volume buttons and everything,

00:27:54   they do feel good over the buttons,

00:27:56   and they do fit well,

00:27:57   and all the other ones look pretty good.

00:28:00   This one, not so much,

00:28:01   but I appreciate the value of Apple's cases

00:28:04   most of the time,

00:28:05   but for me, honestly,

00:28:08   especially when you look at cost,

00:28:11   the first time you buy one of these battery cases,

00:28:13   you're like, oh yeah, this'll make sense.

00:28:14   I'll use it every other day, and it'll be great,

00:28:17   and then as soon as the next iPhone comes out,

00:28:19   and it's a different size, and you can't use it anymore,

00:28:21   like "Why did I buy that $100 battery case that now is worthless to me?" And after

00:28:27   that you typically just buy like the little USB blocks or bricks or you know other ways

00:28:31   to boost your battery after that because you realize like "Oh that was kind of you know

00:28:35   not a great use of my money." So now I've moved on to these little battery bricks and

00:28:41   thin little rectangles and stuff that have battery power in them. I'll link to my favorite

00:28:45   one in the show, it's a $25 and it has more power than the Apple thing. Buy I think twice

00:28:50   as much and fits in your pocket.

00:28:52   Anyway, I don't know, I feel like these things

00:28:55   are just admitting failure, and I also feel like

00:28:57   if you look at them cynically, it's very easy

00:29:00   to look at this and say, you know, I think they just

00:29:02   made this to get $100 more out of people

00:29:06   when they buy phones that were previously going

00:29:08   to third-party makers like Mophie and Anchor

00:29:11   and everyone else, it seems like Apple just wants

00:29:14   to capture more of the iPhone accessory revenue

00:29:16   for themselves.

00:29:18   So John, what do you think of this?

00:29:19   Well, you guys are too new to the Apple world, I think, to get the obvious,

00:29:24   "Let's go back and say something, find something that Apple said in the past that makes them look foolish in the present."

00:29:29   You were close when you were going back to the, you know, "Let's not make too many things,"

00:29:33   but you have to go back farther to the, what I call the Flower iMac, not the Flower Power one,

00:29:40   but the one that was on the cover of Time Magazine that had basically like a, looks like a little hemisphere with like a metal arm poking out of it and the screen floating on the metal arm.

00:29:47   You guys remember that one? Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm

00:29:49   all right, so at the introduction to that Steve Jobs was like we wanted to make a flat panel iMac because

00:29:54   Flat panels look cool and they're the future and we were trying to come up with designs

00:29:59   I don't know if this was in the keynote or an interview or whatever, but the story was basically

00:30:02   We thought about taking a flat screen and shoving the guts of the iMac onto the back of it

00:30:08   and

00:30:09   That just seemed ridiculous because it was like this big lumping thing

00:30:14   Jammed onto the back of the screen and it wasn't elegant and so look at the solution we came up with

00:30:17   This was I think maybe the first let every element be true to itself thing like the base is the base it hugs the ground

00:30:24   It's low to the ground. It's a semicircle. It's like boom there. You're the base

00:30:28   and

00:30:30   the screen

00:30:31   We like flat screens because they're flat they're thin and light so let the screen

00:30:35   Be true to itself be light and airy like floating in the air you can reposition it cuz it's on this cool arm that arm

00:30:40   Totally was cool. I love that arm

00:30:42   And it's super thin because I mean not by today's standards like if you look at the the screen on a MacBook Pro

00:30:49   They didn't even know what thin was but anyway

00:30:50   This is a long time ago look how thin it is and it doesn't have all the guts strapped to the back of it of

00:30:54   Course today

00:30:54   You know when they eventually did like the iMac g5 and the big the white flat screen thing eventually

00:30:59   They did shove the innards of the iMac to the back of the screen when they got it to the point where they felt

00:31:02   Like they could shove the innards on the back and not have it look like like a big you know hunchback type thing

00:31:07   Right so here. We are with the battery case

00:31:10   And unfortunately, there's not really any place for the battery to go.

00:31:14   You can't put it on the front, you can't really put it on the sides or the bottom, so it's

00:31:17   kind of got to go on the back.

00:31:20   But when I first saw this, what I tweeted about it was the sort of Johnny Ives, Steve

00:31:25   Jobs explanation for this still kind of fits with the "let each element be true to itself,"

00:31:29   right?

00:31:30   So the phone is one element and the battery is the other.

00:31:31   And it's like, let's not hide the fact that we're jamming a battery on the back of a phone.

00:31:36   So the phone is this skinny little thing and we're going to put a battery on the back of

00:31:41   it and the battery is this other thing, but it's a separate thing.

00:31:44   So rather than trying to blend them together and make you think these are all one piece,

00:31:49   it's either you can decide it's like in script writing parlance, hang a lantern on it or

00:31:52   in the Johnny Ive Steve Jobs parlance, let each element be true to itself.

00:31:56   So this lithium ion battery pack on the back of this phone is being true to itself by going,

00:32:02   here I am, I'm a battery, I'm sticking out here, say hi to me. And, you know, like aesthetically,

00:32:09   because that's what it comes down to, aesthetically speaking, you can decide that that looks ugly,

00:32:14   maybe because it looks different than the other things, maybe because it's just like,

00:32:16   I don't want you to declare yourself to be, I don't want you to be true to yourself, battery,

00:32:20   I want you to minimize yourself, I don't want to know you're there, I want to pretend instead

00:32:24   that I have Marco's phone that he talked about that is actually just an iPhone 6s that has

00:32:28   a little more battery power. And by calling attention to itself in this way that some

00:32:32   people find ugly, it's like, oh, it's really rubbing it in that I have this extra thing

00:32:36   shoved to the back of my phone that used to be nice and elegant, and now it's like a little

00:32:40   hunchback thing. That's kind of gross. So I could see arguments on both sides of that,

00:32:45   but my opinion of this case started to fall two things. One, when I saw that it had a

00:32:51   chin, because I thought surely the company that can make this without a chin is Apple.

00:32:55   the chin is really, I find that substantially alters the feel of the phone.

00:33:01   More than making it thicker, once you start making it longer and wider, I don't like the

00:33:05   chins.

00:33:06   The chins come with compromises, as people have found out, if you buy a Beats headphone,

00:33:10   you cannot plug it into the chin of this thing without an adapter, because the little headphone

00:33:13   jack is just too deep to go through the little adaptory things.

00:33:16   It's not just Beats, John, there are other headphones.

00:33:18   I know, but I'm just saying, I'm pulling out Beats because it's like Apple makes those,

00:33:21   right?

00:33:22   So it's the worst.

00:33:23   It's not like, "Oh, third-party headphones."

00:33:24   essentially first party headphones also don't fit.

00:33:26   The EarPods fit, right, but not headphones

00:33:29   with longer jacks on.

00:33:30   They had to make the little tunnel for the sound come out,

00:33:32   which I'm glad they did that, and the little holes

00:33:35   and tunnels they have to make to get the stuff

00:33:37   that's on the bottom of the phone to come out.

00:33:38   But I think there are third party battery cases

00:33:41   that don't have chins.

00:33:42   Am I wrong in thinking that?

00:33:44   I feel like I've seen them.

00:33:45   - I was able to find one.

00:33:47   I looked for battery cases a few months ago,

00:33:50   and there was one, let me look it up.

00:33:52   I forget the name, but I found it yesterday.

00:33:53   But anyway, I feel like Apple,

00:33:57   not having a chance at something Apple will do,

00:33:58   but the real kicker to me was all that story

00:34:01   I just gave you about the backpack being true to itself

00:34:04   and having the extra capacity or whatever,

00:34:06   when I found out that Apple's battery case

00:34:08   actually has less battery capacity

00:34:10   than the ones that try to hide the fact

00:34:12   that there's a battery, that really killed it

00:34:13   'cause it's like if you're gonna have a big backpack

00:34:15   and be true to itself and say, "Here I am, I'm a battery,"

00:34:19   at least make that battery really high capacity, right?

00:34:22   at least say, yeah, it's a little bit chunkier

00:34:24   looking than other batteries,

00:34:25   but boy, it's got a lot of capacity, but it doesn't.

00:34:27   It has less capacity than those other ones.

00:34:29   It looks like it should have more

00:34:31   because it calls attention to itself.

00:34:32   It is prominent, and yet the actual battery

00:34:34   in there is smaller.

00:34:36   And so then I feel like, you know,

00:34:37   the battery case that I would have liked,

00:34:40   not that I'm in the market for battery case,

00:34:42   but the one that I would have liked

00:34:43   is either one that was just,

00:34:44   had massive capacity and was really high quality,

00:34:47   or the one that had no chin

00:34:49   and made the battery so thin

00:34:51   you don't even know that it's there. They gave you only a little bit more, maybe more

00:34:55   than Marco's 25, maybe 30%, maybe 40% battery, and that Apple can make a super thin one that's

00:35:01   like, you don't even know it's a battery case. It does look like a little bit case, but it

00:35:04   gives your phone a boost, right? Both of those products I think would be nicer products as

00:35:09   far as I'm concerned. Now I don't think the existence of a battery case means that either

00:35:16   Apple is admitting the success has bad battery life, and I actually don't think the success

00:35:19   has bad battery life. It really depends on for you individually. If it doesn't have enough

00:35:23   battery life for the way you use the phone, then yes, you need to have a battery pack.

00:35:26   But I think that the battery life on the 6S is reasonable, but as we've discussed many,

00:35:30   many times, I also think there is a place in Apple's product line for a phone that is

00:35:35   bigger and gets more battery life that is not the 6S Plus. Because that's forcing you

00:35:40   to say, "Hey, if you want more battery life, Apple makes a phone for you. Also, it's the

00:35:43   size of a freaking tablet." And I feel like there's a place in their line to say, "And

00:35:48   And I feel like the 6s is that place actually.

00:35:50   Like if they come up with a 4-inch phone, that one should be super thin and small.

00:35:54   And then the 6s should be a little bit thicker to have more battery, and then the 6 Plus

00:35:57   should be the way it is.

00:35:58   Or maybe add something between it.

00:36:00   I think there's a place somewhere in the lineup for a thick phone that is not gargantuan.

00:36:04   But they don't want to make the phone, they want to keep making these skinny things.

00:36:07   And if you need more capacity from it, you put this case on.

00:36:09   And I see tons of people with battery cases in real life on all sizes of iPhones.

00:36:16   the 5s size, the 4s, the 6, the 6s.

00:36:19   Lots and lots of battery cases,

00:36:20   because those people know, like,

00:36:21   I'm gonna use my phone all day

00:36:22   and I can't use it without the battery case.

00:36:24   The battery case essentially becomes part of the phone.

00:36:27   I also don't fault Apple for making a case.

00:36:29   I don't think they're spreading themselves too thin.

00:36:30   Marco was like,

00:36:31   "Oh, they just wanna get 100 more dollars out of people?"

00:36:32   Of course they do.

00:36:33   Why would they not?

00:36:34   Like, are they somehow morally obligated

00:36:35   not to make an accessory?

00:36:37   They should make an access--

00:36:38   It's weird to have a manufacturer not make accessories.

00:36:41   It's like Honda not making bras for your car.

00:36:43   It's not like they want you to put a bra on your car,

00:36:45   but they're sure as hell gonna make one

00:36:46   because you want a broad like,

00:36:47   Honda's like, we'll sell you one, here you go.

00:36:49   Like maybe that's a bad example of a car browse,

00:36:51   but I'm just going back to neutral days.

00:36:53   But yeah, no, Apple should totally sell every accessory.

00:36:56   Why allow only third parties to make an accessory

00:36:59   that a huge number of people buy?

00:37:00   What was the status on something like Apple,

00:37:02   according to Apple's own statistics or something like?

00:37:04   - 70 something percent.

00:37:05   - 78% of people put a case on their iPhones.

00:37:08   Of course Apple should sell cases.

00:37:10   And if some of those people want better,

00:37:11   of course they should make them.

00:37:12   In fact, Apple should make three battery cases.

00:37:14   Like I have no objection to them doing that.

00:37:16   I think they absolutely should,

00:37:18   if only like to raise the game

00:37:19   of the third party manufacturer.

00:37:21   So while this is a little bit of a disappointing product,

00:37:26   there are some explanations for it

00:37:27   that we'll get to in a second,

00:37:29   but I think they should totally make a battery case.

00:37:32   I can come up with a plausible explanation

00:37:35   for the aesthetics of this case,

00:37:36   even if you think it's ugly, you think it's ugly,

00:37:38   like, you know, your opinion is your opinion, right?

00:37:40   I mean, we all see people with cases

00:37:42   that we think are ugly, but somebody loves them.

00:37:44   And if anything, I wish Apple would just make

00:37:46   more battery cases.

00:37:47   So I think this is a good first run at a battery case.

00:37:50   And at the very least, it's got us talking about it

00:37:52   and it's interesting.

00:37:52   It is not boring.

00:37:53   Let's give it that.

00:37:55   - Yeah, by the way, the case I was thinking of,

00:37:56   and I couldn't remember it before, was the Sola Memo.

00:37:59   I don't think I'm pronouncing that right.

00:38:01   There's a couple of them.

00:38:02   There's a new version and an old version on Amazon

00:38:04   for like 50 bucks each.

00:38:06   And the old version, this is the only battery case

00:38:08   I've ever seen that has no chin.

00:38:10   And it basically has an internal lightning port

00:38:12   that plugs in kind of up the bottom of the phone

00:38:15   and like moves the real connector down slightly

00:38:18   and it uses its additional thickness

00:38:20   of being a battery case to give you a lightning port

00:38:22   that's just like down lower than like just below

00:38:25   the real one.

00:38:26   - Does it really give you a lightning port?

00:38:27   'Cause that was, I thought that was one of the claims

00:38:29   of this, like it wasn't this from,

00:38:30   it was in the Mashable Arab I think.

00:38:31   The first battery case to have a fully featured

00:38:34   lightning connector.

00:38:34   That was a claim I read somewhere

00:38:36   about the Apple lightning case.

00:38:37   - Well yeah, but the keywords there are fully featured

00:38:40   because you're both right.

00:38:41   this does take a lightning connector,

00:38:44   but it doesn't put the battery status

00:38:47   and notification center and stuff like that

00:38:48   that only the first party case can do.

00:38:50   - Well, is that a fully featured lightning connector?

00:38:52   That's a feature that, granted, Apple can only do

00:38:53   'cause they're the only ones who can change the OS,

00:38:55   but is the lightning connector fully featured on that one?

00:38:57   Anyway, like--

00:38:58   - The first version of this one had a big problem

00:39:01   according to the reviews of blocking cell signals

00:39:03   'cause it had a metal frame,

00:39:04   and everyone said that it blocked your signal.

00:39:07   And this updated version now says,

00:39:09   it's updated now, new design,

00:39:10   that absolutely will not interfere with your signal.

00:39:12   So I just ordered one, I'm gonna try it.

00:39:14   I'll report back and see if that actually is true

00:39:17   because it's extremely thin relative to most battery cases

00:39:21   and it has no chin.

00:39:23   So the bulk of it is significantly reduced.

00:39:26   And if this is actually good and works

00:39:29   and doesn't block the cell signal meaningfully,

00:39:31   then I would say it's kind of embarrassing for Apple,

00:39:34   but I'm guessing there's gonna be some problem with this.

00:39:38   There has to be some reason why no one else

00:39:40   that makes cases like this.

00:39:41   - Is there any other color besides white?

00:39:43   I'm not trying to be funny, I'm really asking.

00:39:45   - It is a black one.

00:39:45   - No, but the black one's the old version.

00:39:47   - Oh, I thought you meant the apple one, yeah.

00:39:49   No, the apple one only comes in black and white,

00:39:50   which is kind of boring too.

00:39:52   - Yeah, that's also true, but yeah, we'll see.

00:39:54   We'll see if they actually sell.

00:39:54   I mean, I'm sure they're gonna sell it.

00:39:56   Also, one thing to consider that that is even more cynical

00:39:59   than they just made it to get accessory money.

00:40:01   - But why is that, like, you always say that,

00:40:03   like, they just made it, like, oh, do they,

00:40:06   that's what they make products for.

00:40:07   Like, I mean, they wanna make great products, blah, blah,

00:40:09   but they just made it to make money?

00:40:11   Like how can you say that is a bad thing about like--

00:40:13   - I guess that's true.

00:40:14   - Like, you know what I mean?

00:40:16   There's one, I'm trying to think of,

00:40:17   is there a situation where you could say

00:40:18   this was just a money,

00:40:19   I guess you could say it's a money grab

00:40:21   if they put out a product that they put minimal effort into

00:40:26   just to get the money based on their name.

00:40:28   And I don't think that's this

00:40:30   because you may think it's ugly

00:40:32   and may disagree with the compromises they made,

00:40:34   but it looks like it's up to the standards

00:40:36   of all Apple first party cases in terms of fit and finish

00:40:39   and the thoughtfulness of the features.

00:40:41   Again, whether you disagree with them or not,

00:40:43   like it doesn't look like a piece of junk.

00:40:44   So I think that's, maybe that's how you could call it

00:40:46   a money grab.

00:40:46   If they put out something that just looked like

00:40:49   a piece of junk, that it didn't feel good,

00:40:50   it didn't look good, it didn't fit right,

00:40:52   maybe the only thing I can think of there

00:40:54   is like the iPad One case you could say that about.

00:40:56   Like they just put this out to make money

00:40:58   because that looked like a piece of crap

00:41:00   and it looked like it was slapped together.

00:41:01   Because we might as well say they just made a small laptop

00:41:03   as a money grab for people who want a smaller laptop.

00:41:05   Well, yeah, it's for people who want a smaller laptop.

00:41:08   You know?

00:41:09   That's all fair, but okay, so carry this on

00:41:11   to its logical conclusion then, and then we have a problem,

00:41:13   because now, they now have an incentive

00:41:17   to not improve the iPhone battery life,

00:41:20   to keep it to being almost sufficient for enough people,

00:41:25   but just painful enough that a large portion

00:41:28   of their customers will wanna buy

00:41:30   this additional $100 part.

00:41:31   It's just like the 16 gig problem.

00:41:33   - Yeah, I don't know if a large portion of people

00:41:34   are gonna buy, like-- - No, I'm saying,

00:41:36   but now they have the incentive to keep the status quo.

00:41:38   incentive to do what? They're already doing that. I think the 6 Plus has given them a

00:41:45   little bit of cover on this to say, "You always said you wanted a phone with more battery

00:41:49   capacity, well we made one." And you're like, "Yeah, but it's so big. Oh, you want everything

00:41:53   now it has to be exactly the size you want with exactly the battery capacity. Our testing

00:41:57   shows the blah, blah, blah." I mean, as someone who uses a 6 all day and the battery, I mean,

00:42:02   I don't use it all day, but anyway, I use it every day and the battery is totally fine

00:42:06   for me. But I also know people who can't get through half a day with their 6, and we all

00:42:10   have the same phone, it just depends on your usage pattern. So there's such a variability

00:42:13   in usage pattern, it's very difficult to say whether they've over or undersized anything.

00:42:19   If this battery case gives them cover, I don't think so, because battery cases existed already.

00:42:22   So whatever cover that you think they're getting by having a battery case, they already had

00:42:26   that cover, because there's this huge market for battery cases that I see everywhere for

00:42:29   the people who torture their phones, who need to have a really long, you know, so I don't

00:42:34   think they needed to make this case to get that cover.

00:42:36   - No, I think that's fair, but I think this

00:42:38   dramatically increases that cut for them,

00:42:40   because now they can point to this and they can say,

00:42:42   well, you know what, if you don't like the battery life

00:42:44   of your six or whatever the new mainline iPhone is,

00:42:48   if you don't like the battery life of that,

00:42:50   it isn't our problem to fix.

00:42:51   We offer you these battery cases for an extra $99.

00:42:54   - It was better when they could say,

00:42:56   if we don't like the battery life, it isn't our problem,

00:42:58   buy one of these less than $99 battery cases

00:43:00   that offer more capacity.

00:43:01   If anything, this weakens their story,

00:43:03   because now they're gonna always be pitching theirs first,

00:43:04   which has lower capacity and a higher price.

00:43:07   - The problem here is that this at least,

00:43:09   by having a first party option that they believe is good,

00:43:12   this gives them permission internally

00:43:15   when making these design decisions

00:43:17   to no longer really think about giving more battery life

00:43:20   to people built into the phone.

00:43:21   - I think they'll still think about it

00:43:23   exactly the same amount.

00:43:24   I mean, as I've said from many years back

00:43:26   to the old Hypercritic episode about naked robotic core,

00:43:28   this seems to be the strategy

00:43:30   they've been pursuing for a long time.

00:43:31   A lot of people tweeted, say,

00:43:32   "Oh, this is the naked robotic core theory.

00:43:33   "It's finally come."

00:43:34   It's been here the whole time.

00:43:35   Like, you know, this is, it's not a new thing.

00:43:39   The thing that they've been doing is make it as thin and light as possible as you can

00:43:43   to be useful to, you know, to somebody, to a lot of people, and then allow people to

00:43:48   add to it.

00:43:49   And as Mark was pointing out many times, then you've got to have seven extra layers of,

00:43:52   you know, essentially filler between there, because you've got to have walls between your

00:43:56   batteries and the batteries have to be inside cases, and there's going to be a case on the

00:43:58   outside that's inefficient.

00:44:00   So they're going to keep dancing around in that line.

00:44:03   I really think that none of us would be discussing this if they made a thicker iPhone 6.

00:44:09   Maybe even also keep the thin one, make a thicker one for all day use or on the go things.

00:44:14   It's all about diversifying the product line.

00:44:15   They really have diversified it a lot.

00:44:16   They just can keep going.

00:44:18   Maybe they consider this a diversification, but I think this is more of an accessor-ication?

00:44:23   Accessorizing-ication.

00:44:24   Whatever.

00:44:25   Anyway, they're adding accessories, which is one way to go to make your line more diverse,

00:44:29   but it is no substitute for actually making your line more diverse.

00:44:33   And it isn't that ridiculous to think of them making another iPhone model that still is

00:44:40   the same size as their mid-range one that just has a bigger battery.

00:44:43   Because this is their most important product, they make more of them than anything else,

00:44:47   and they have all sorts of such customizations in their other product lines.

00:44:50   So it wouldn't be that ridiculous of a concept.

00:44:53   Yeah, if the 4-inch phone comes back, then you'll see it's ripe for that.

00:44:56   If a 4-inch phone comes back, it's like, "See, Apple is not afraid to make sure..."

00:45:00   Because with the iPhone being such an important product, there's one thing where they want

00:45:04   to have economies of scale, but the other thing is you want to make sure you get as

00:45:07   much of the market as possible.

00:45:08   It's the whole reason they made bigger phones.

00:45:10   It was like, well, a lot of people do want bigger phones, so let's make a bigger phone.

00:45:13   In fact, let's not just make a bigger phone.

00:45:15   Let's make two bigger phones, because if we make it one size, it's not going to be big

00:45:19   enough for the people who want the huge one.

00:45:20   But if we make just the huge one, people are going to flip out because they want the not-so-huge

00:45:23   one.

00:45:24   And like I said, if they make the 4-inch, it will show that we understand that people

00:45:27   on all different sizes and then maybe someday, like either they have to make a thicker phone

00:45:32   someday or someday eventually the innards will take up so little power that this will

00:45:36   be a moot point and we'll just cross the 24 hour barrier and then we won't have to worry

00:45:39   about it again until people start wanting their phone to last a week instead of a day.

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00:47:39   some useful information here.

00:47:42   Apple, in another strange turn of events,

00:47:44   is actually talking to the press about the, of all things,

00:47:47   about the little lump on the back of their thing,

00:47:49   which like, when did this come out?

00:47:51   Like earlier in the week, I guess?

00:47:52   - Yesterday, I think.

00:47:53   - Yeah, and then Apple already is talking again,

00:47:56   talking to the tech press and saying,

00:47:57   we would like to talk to you about the mean things

00:47:59   people are saying about our battery case.

00:48:01   They had, you know, I'm not gonna say some excuses,

00:48:04   let's say some explanations about

00:48:05   what is the deal with this case?

00:48:07   Why the hell is it like that?

00:48:08   Why doesn't, one question is, that lump on the back.

00:48:11   Fine, you wanna have a lump on the back,

00:48:12   you don't want it to be smoothed over,

00:48:14   that's an aesthetic decision.

00:48:15   Why doesn't the lump on the back

00:48:16   go all the way from the top to the bottom of the phone?

00:48:18   Why does it look like a band-aid where it's like there's the lumpy part in the middle and the flat part?

00:48:22   and Marco already talked about this like and

00:48:24   The their explanation is it's about cellular reception that if you put the battery over the top and the bottom of the you know

00:48:33   Over the whole thing the antenna lines and the success are in the top and the bottom

00:48:37   You don't want to block the antenna with a battery because it's not radio transparent

00:48:41   And so they're keeping the battery away from the the radio parts and that gives better

00:48:47   Reception which I can kind of understand that's something you have to deal with

00:48:50   If you really do coat the entire back of the phone with a battery, it's gonna hurt reception

00:48:54   People who have battery cases that are not that do hurt their reception know that it happens and it can be annoying

00:49:01   So they avoided it just by not putting the battery there

00:49:03   Did you have to stay so far away from the things could you made it again?

00:49:07   I say if you if you're gonna put the big lump

00:49:09   Why not make the lump thicker like when I go out and have more capacities really is depressing to me taper it maybe yeah

00:49:14   Well, I mean I guess it comes when it comes down to an aesthetic decision

00:49:17   like you could have left the battery the same exact size and

00:49:19   Filled in the part with like essentially a radio transparent taper. It's not battery that's covering the things

00:49:25   They're just taper, but I think the paper comes down to aesthetics

00:49:27   And the other thing is I don't know if this is a legit complaint, but this is Apple story

00:49:32   that a lot of the battery cases like the Mophies and stuff are two-piece things that are hard to get the phone in and

00:49:38   Out of and at the Apple one because the battery doesn't extend all the way up to the top

00:49:41   The top is like bendy and you could just bend the top back and then slide the phone

00:49:45   How do you think I lost the video of this?

00:49:47   And they're very excited and proud about the fact that it's easy to get the phone in and out

00:49:51   I don't know how many people are taking their phones in and out of battery cases a lot

00:49:54   Maybe it's because they're so hard to get in and out of like those really tight-fitting battery cases

00:49:59   But is that you know, I guess it's okay to say hey

00:50:03   We made it really easy to get the phone in and out

00:50:04   But I just don't see someone coming home every day and taking their phone out or putting it in

00:50:08   It doesn't seem like a frequent activity to me

00:50:10   I you know and that's true of any case not just battery case like I never take my cases off my phone

00:50:15   And you shouldn't because you'll find all the weird dust and stuff that collects up there, and it's gross

00:50:19   well, it's funny you say that because I

00:50:22   Typically use the Apple leather case for my iPhone because like Marco was saying earlier

00:50:27   You know I happen to like the feel of it

00:50:29   It is a little bit exorbitantly expensive

00:50:31   But not only more it when when you when we bought our sixth generation ones it was like 60 bucks now

00:50:36   they're 45. Oh, is that right? I didn't know that. Yeah, they dropped it with the S-generation.

00:50:40   Oh, I didn't know that. So that's not quite so bad. But anyway, the only time I use battery

00:50:45   case, though, which I do have, I have a Lenmar one, which I really liked until Marco showed

00:50:50   me this one that we were talking about a minute ago, which I kind of am blusting over now.

00:50:55   But anyway. Well, let me get it first, and I'll tell you if it sucks. Yeah, exactly.

00:51:00   But I have this Lenmar battery case, which is just a cheaper knockoff of the Mophies,

00:51:05   And it works really well, and I really like it.

00:51:08   But the only time I ever use it is either a conference or when I'm at a football game

00:51:12   when I'm not going to be around, you know, wall power for hours and hours and hours and

00:51:17   hours.

00:51:18   Other than that, I never ever use this case.

00:51:20   And so getting my phone out of the Apple leather case and into the Lenmar case is useful to

00:51:25   have that easier.

00:51:27   But I by and large agree with you that it's not the sort of thing that I'm doing daily.

00:51:32   I'm doing it like once a week during the fall, and then maybe daily during WWDC.

00:51:40   But that's it.

00:51:41   That's frequent enough that I would say easy in and out would be good, although I do have

00:51:44   to wonder, especially with these things, like the more times you take the thing in and out,

00:51:47   the more loose it kind of possibly gets, and the more you could trap things between it.

00:51:51   That's another thing they talk about on the Apple website, that they have the microfiber

00:51:54   on the inside, that it's cleaning your phone when you put it in there.

00:51:57   It's like, there's no getting around the fact that if you happen to get like three pieces

00:51:59   is a sand in there and you shove your phone inside it, microfiber or not, you're gonna

00:52:03   make scratches. The other thing is about the lump, I mean Apple has talked about like grip

00:52:08   ability and stuff and how it's also better for that and Gruber said he actually, rather

00:52:11   than putting his thumb, his pinky on the bottom like you guys do, with the lump you can put

00:52:16   your pinky under the lump instead of under the very bottom of the phone which probably

00:52:19   helps because the chin is making the very bottom of the phone go even lower down. So

00:52:22   resting your pinky underneath the lump could be a comfortable way to do it. Like having

00:52:27   never held one of these I can't really think about how it would feel. Would it feel awkward

00:52:30   or would it feel better like giving you an extra place to grip like a handhold, that

00:52:34   lump on the back. But the Apple silicon case is nice. My wife has one on her iPhone and

00:52:41   the lump thing, I don't know. What I keep coming back to is many of our discussions

00:52:47   about past Apple products have been that they favor form over function. We've talked about

00:52:54   the MacBook One and the single port and how everything has to be so skinny and how the

00:52:57   phones are skinny and how everything has to be so, you know, like just made like a sculpture,

00:53:01   the Apple mouse, the tiny keyboards, the half size arrow keys, form over function, form

00:53:05   over function too much, you know, but they can't make it ugly for one little bit of extra

00:53:09   functionality. They just said, no, can we just make it beautiful and do the best we

00:53:11   can within those constraints? And one thing you can say about this case is that it absolutely

00:53:15   does not put form in front of function, right? Nope. Right. So, cause not because, not necessarily

00:53:21   because it's ugly, but because like look it has a job to do and it doesn't really spend

00:53:26   a lot of time figuring out how to make it look like a beautiful piece of sculpture,

00:53:32   right?

00:53:33   And again, getting back to it being true to itself, I think that old iMac design, I love

00:53:36   that iMac design so much, I felt like that iMac design had both in that they said, you

00:53:41   know, let the function dictate the form.

00:53:45   We can't figure out a way to get these internals in the back of the screen and have it look

00:53:48   look decent so don't even try. Have the screen and have the screen be free by itself and

00:53:53   have it, you can move it anywhere. You can twist it around, you can move it up, you can

00:53:55   move it down, it stays where you put it. It was awesome, right? And the base, it also

00:53:59   looks beautiful but it was also totally stable, stays right there, it's small. The base of

00:54:04   that iMac was actually a lower amount of volume I believe than the Power Mac G4 Cube so it

00:54:11   was actually smaller than you thought it was. What you want is a beautiful blending of it

00:54:14   But this one, when it came time to choose,

00:54:17   should we like smooth this thing over

00:54:20   and try to hide all this stuff and, you know,

00:54:24   make it look like a beautiful piece of sculpture,

00:54:26   perhaps sacrificing something of utility,

00:54:28   like maybe not having a good lightning pass through

00:54:31   or maybe having ridiculously low battery capacity

00:54:34   to make it completely invisible and not useful to people,

00:54:36   except for Marco who wanted more than an extra 20%.

00:54:39   They didn't, and they made a different choice.

00:54:41   And when they make a different choice,

00:54:43   Their reward is a million articles saying,

00:54:45   you have too much function

00:54:46   and you should have paid more attention to form

00:54:48   'cause I think what you made is ugly.

00:54:49   And I guess that's because people think the ugliness

00:54:52   is a result of them not paying enough attention to looks.

00:54:55   If they just made something that was ugly,

00:54:57   like say they made the MacBook One,

00:54:59   that had one port and everyone was pissed about one port

00:55:02   and it was ugly on top of that, you couldn't say,

00:55:04   well, you said you wanted form or function over form.

00:55:07   So you would say, no, no, they screwed up both.

00:55:09   It is both not useful 'cause it has one stupid port

00:55:12   and it's ugly as sin.

00:55:12   Instead, they made this beautiful thing that has one port.

00:55:15   And then you could simply say, well, they wanted to make it beautiful and thin, and

00:55:19   then making a statement with this one port, and the scalped batteries and all this other

00:55:22   stuff.

00:55:23   Like they spent so much, all this technology and effort to make this beautiful thing.

00:55:27   And we agree that it's beautiful, so we say yes, you did that, but you did the wrong balance.

00:55:30   In this one, we don't agree that it's beautiful.

00:55:32   We feel like you have not made it beautiful, so we're going to say that you didn't go for

00:55:37   form.

00:55:38   Instead, you must have gone for function.

00:55:39   And you look at it functionally like, well, it's easy to take in and out.

00:55:42   It has a battery in it, has lightning pass through.

00:55:45   The only thing you could maybe ding them on is if you really wanted to go with form over

00:55:48   function you would have made the chin even bigger so you could fit the long headphone

00:55:51   jacks in it.

00:55:52   But this does feel to me like a different balance than usual of form over function from

00:55:57   Apple, if only because we all disagree about the form being beautiful.

00:56:02   And I want to encourage that because half the time all we're saying is don't make your

00:56:06   things beautiful sculptures because then you end up in absurd situations like the harpoon

00:56:09   turtle mouse.

00:56:10   more about form and then we all yell at them.

00:56:13   So I can empathize with Apple and feel like we can't win with these guys.

00:56:18   Well the right answer here is to recognize that if it is truly not possible to make a

00:56:24   really good external battery case for an iPhone that also looks good, and good looks are important

00:56:30   to Apple, then the answer is to reduce or remove the need for external battery cases.

00:56:35   Yeah, like reducing it that's where it comes down to like how much if you added 10% capacity

00:56:40   How much do you reduce the need 20% capacity?

00:56:42   Like when do you get to the point where you're actually reducing the need because I think the people who need like those big mofis

00:56:47   their Apple should never make a phone as big as those big mofis or like even like

00:56:51   80% is big like so take one of the big mofis cut out all the intermediary plastic and merge that that those milliamp hours

00:56:58   Into the phone that's too big for Apple to make right but people have those needs and so there's always gonna mean

00:57:04   for some battery packs, and I just don't know what the ratio is of like of all the people

00:57:07   who need a battery packs, how many people could get away with just adding 20%, 30%,

00:57:12   right? So that's kind of what the third-party battery manufacturers are doing, and if Apple

00:57:17   is not privy to that information because their surveys or focus groups don't work, that is

00:57:21   a motivation for Apple to make seven different sizes of battery packs, and then hey, Apple,

00:57:24   you'll have your own information about exactly how much more capacity people need, and you

00:57:27   can use that to decide how thick to make the next phone or what target battery life or

00:57:32   whatever.

00:57:33   severe distance center to ever do so

00:57:34   because that'll reduce the iPhone ASP?

00:57:36   - Yeah, I think by making one case,

00:57:40   this will give them some information,

00:57:42   some real first-hand information

00:57:43   about what people want out of battery cases.

00:57:46   And if they make more battery cases,

00:57:47   that'll give them even more information.

00:57:49   Like they're always making that calculus.

00:57:50   How big do we make the battery in this phone?

00:57:52   Should we be going for a target battery life,

00:57:53   like the iPad, where we just go for 10 hours all the time,

00:57:55   we think we're okay with that?

00:57:57   I don't know, what do you think their target is

00:57:58   for the iPhones?

00:57:59   They seem to vary more.

00:58:00   Someone did a chart recently.

00:58:01   They seemed like it was kind of consistent,

00:58:03   but a little bit lumpy.

00:58:04   The iPads were more of a straight line

00:58:06   and the iPhone history was a little bit lumpy

00:58:08   up and down here and there,

00:58:09   but maybe they're just holding their breath and saying,

00:58:12   if we just wait a little bit longer

00:58:14   and we get Intel to manufacture the A11 for us

00:58:17   at whatever insane feature size

00:58:18   that they're up to at that point,

00:58:20   and we make everything so low power,

00:58:23   eventually this will just be a moot point.

00:58:25   We just need to get across that finish line.

00:58:26   It's already a moot point on iPads.

00:58:28   They're already on iPads like saying,

00:58:29   I'm gonna just fill that space with empty space

00:58:31   with the speakers.

00:58:32   Like 10 hours is fine.

00:58:33   And we pretty much all agree, like for the most part,

00:58:35   10 hours so far is fine for the iPads.

00:58:38   For the phones, they're always on the ragged edge of,

00:58:40   we don't wanna make it really big and thick,

00:58:43   but we also want it to last kind of all day.

00:58:45   And we know we can't really make it last all day

00:58:46   because that would just be way too big.

00:58:48   So, you know, just, I don't know,

00:58:50   like every year I think they're gonna get closer

00:58:52   and every year they just put a more powerful CPU

00:58:54   and GPU in there or make the screen bigger

00:58:56   so that that sucks even more power.

00:58:58   It just seems like we're not really making progress on battery life.

00:59:02   But I have to think somewhere out there in the not-do-this-in-future, we're going to

00:59:05   start crossing over, like, give me one or two or three more hours, and then all this

00:59:09   stuff starts to fade into the background and just be applicable to people who need to be

00:59:15   able to play games on iOS for nine hours in a row and not lose their battery, or whatever

00:59:20   the hell people are doing to use those giant Mophies all day.

00:59:24   Yeah.

00:59:25   A couple of quick notes about the positives to the battery case.

00:59:30   One of the things that appeals to me about this is that it does have that lightning pass

00:59:33   through.

00:59:35   It sounds like there are other cases on the market that have this, like the one Marco

00:59:38   just impulse bought a few minutes ago.

00:59:42   But having this Lenmar case that I do like, but also having to carry one micro-USB port

00:59:48   just for that, and I pretty much have no other devices that use it, is kind of annoying.

00:59:53   So I like that it has lighting pass-through.

00:59:55   And then it also has some phantom passive antenna help,

01:00:00   which, I mean, if you guys have something to say about that,

01:00:02   we can.

01:00:03   But finally, the other thing that I think is appealing

01:00:05   is when you drop down in Notification Center

01:00:08   to see what your battery life is on your phone

01:00:11   and possibly your watch,

01:00:12   this will appear in Notification Center as well,

01:00:15   which I think is really nice

01:00:16   rather than having some stupid blinking lights

01:00:19   on the back of the thing.

01:00:20   Apparently there is a blinking light

01:00:22   the inside of the thing for when you're charging, but that's obviously not terribly useful if

01:00:25   the phone is in the case.

01:00:27   I think those are all positive.

01:00:28   I think that's good.

01:00:29   And actually, I never thought about putting your pinky there.

01:00:31   I've not held one of these yet, but that actually sounds really appealing too, because maybe

01:00:34   that can shimmy my pinky up a bit so I can actually reach the top of my already too big

01:00:39   phone.

01:00:40   That's another policy decision.

01:00:42   Speaking of OS integration, what are the policies—I don't have battery cases, so I don't know

01:00:46   what battery cases do this—but what is the policy in terms of, if you plug either a terrible

01:00:51   micro USB or a lightning cable or something to the bottom of your phone that's inside

01:00:55   a battery case.

01:00:56   Does it charge the battery case first?

01:00:58   Does it charge the phone first?

01:00:59   When you put a phone into a battery case, does the battery case immediately begin charging

01:01:03   the phone up to 100% and then stop charging when it goes that?

01:01:06   Or does the battery case charge the phone up to some percentage like 75 or 80 and just

01:01:10   try to keep it there as you use the phone?

01:01:12   Like how do you, how does the software in the battery case I guess decide what to do

01:01:19   with power?

01:01:21   And there is an argument to be made for the battery case not charging the phone up to

01:01:25   100% and keeping it that way because keeping lithium ion batteries at 100% charge all the

01:01:29   time shortens their life versus keeping them at like, I think optimal is like 40% or some

01:01:33   crap like that.

01:01:34   But at any rate, keeping it charged at max all the time is not great for battery life.

01:01:38   Even OS X at this point like does that thing where it like lets your battery drain down

01:01:42   like 99, 98, 97% and then cranks you back up.

01:01:45   Like it's not good to keep it at 100% all the time.

01:01:48   I've heard that some battery cases try to keep your phone around 75 or something to

01:01:53   extend the battery life on it or whatever, but those type of decisions are things that

01:01:57   can be adjusted I guess in software or maybe in firmware.

01:02:00   Does the battery case have firmware?

01:02:02   I don't know.

01:02:03   Some cooperation between the device with the software on it and the battery case would

01:02:07   be good here.

01:02:08   And it's a perfect opportunity to try to do something that you couldn't do as a regular

01:02:12   person because as a regular person without a battery case, you have to charge 100% before

01:02:16   you leave the house.

01:02:17   charge your phone to 70% to preserve the battery life because you're just going to maybe run

01:02:20   out before the end of the day.

01:02:21   So you're always charging to 100%.

01:02:24   People with battery cases can maybe, I guess maybe they're frying their battery case keeping

01:02:28   it charged to 100%, but I'd be more comfortable doing that than the thing that's inside the

01:02:32   phone because it's probably still cheaper to get a new battery case than it is to replace

01:02:35   a battery inside the phone.

01:02:36   And certainly you don't have to worry about opening up your phone and doing all that other

01:02:40   stuff.

01:02:41   Well also, if there is integration between the battery case and the phone, which in Apple's

01:02:45   In Apple's case, there is, there's software integration

01:02:47   at the phone level, and no one else will be able to get that.

01:02:50   There's one more thing you can do that's smart

01:02:52   that is unfortunate that other cases can't do.

01:02:56   iOS has a number of changes that it does,

01:02:59   behaviors that it does, heuristics that it does,

01:03:01   when it thinks it's plugged into AC power.

01:03:03   It will more readily download things in the background,

01:03:06   it'll pull apps more often, it'll use more power

01:03:10   when it thinks it's plugged into AC power.

01:03:11   If Apple makes a case that integrates in the software,

01:03:15   I think a smart thing to do would be for the battery case

01:03:18   to communicate to the phone, hey, I'm also a battery,

01:03:21   this is not really AC power even though I'm charging you,

01:03:24   and for the phone to continue operating

01:03:26   as if it was running on battery power.

01:03:28   I don't know if Apple's case does that.

01:03:30   I do know that third-party cases can and don't do that.

01:03:33   - Yeah, it might also be neat to see

01:03:36   like what the policy decision is about low power mode.

01:03:39   I guess maybe you'd never get into low power mode

01:03:41   if the battery case is always charging the phone,

01:03:43   and if you did reach it, it would be legit turned on,

01:03:45   but what if you had a battery case

01:03:47   that was like withholding its charge from the phone

01:03:49   until the phone dipped to a certain level

01:03:50   and then it triggered the low power warning?

01:03:51   I don't know.

01:03:52   This is yet another reason why actually increasing

01:03:56   the capacity of the battery inside the phone

01:03:58   removes all these complexities.

01:03:59   You don't have to make all these weird policy decisions

01:04:01   about how you share the battery and all that other stuff,

01:04:03   but bottom line is, official support

01:04:05   for everything we just discussed is a good idea

01:04:07   because no matter how big you make the battery in the phone,

01:04:09   someone's always gonna need something

01:04:10   that's the size of a bar of ivory soap

01:04:12   and there's gonna be battery cases exist.

01:04:14   And if battery cases are going to exist,

01:04:16   the OS should really have support for them.

01:04:17   Like there should be a made for iPhone program

01:04:20   to be compliant battery case,

01:04:21   to get all the features we just described,

01:04:23   even if Apple's the first one to do them.

01:04:25   Like why withhold that?

01:04:26   I was surprised to learn that I read the same thing

01:04:29   that like that as far as iPhones are concerned,

01:04:31   they think they're attached to AC power

01:04:33   when attached to a battery case.

01:04:34   'Cause battery cases have been around for a really long time

01:04:36   and you would think by now Apple would have

01:04:38   official support for,

01:04:39   "Hey, if you're making a battery case,

01:04:41   "do this and that and have these resistances on these pins

01:04:44   "and will let us know that you are a battery case

01:04:46   "and will treat you the right way."

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01:06:45   - One more bit on the smart battery case.

01:06:48   There was a story in The Verge about

01:06:50   does Apple's smart battery case look weird

01:06:53   because Mophie has a ton of patents on battery cases?

01:06:56   Well, Mophie does have a ton of patents on battery cases,

01:06:58   some of them involving a two-part case

01:07:00   which snaps over the thing and just, you know,

01:07:03   tons of dumb patents.

01:07:05   Is that why Apple's case looks like this?

01:07:08   Apple says no.

01:07:09   In their strange communication with the tech press

01:07:12   that they are doing nowadays,

01:07:14   they apparently have said through channels unequivocally no.

01:07:18   - That's not entirely surprising

01:07:21   since this Lenmar case that I have

01:07:23   operates the exact same way

01:07:24   that the supposed MOFI patents would prohibit.

01:07:29   But to be fair, Lenmar is a much smaller target

01:07:32   than Apple would be, so I'm not sure anyone cares.

01:07:35   - I think Apple, like, the reason I believe this story

01:07:40   that Apple says that they didn't make the case

01:07:42   they waited because of patents is not because I think Apple,

01:07:46   you know, Apple could have made the case

01:07:48   and not infringed on Apple.

01:07:49   I think if Apple made a case that infringed

01:07:51   on Moby's Fafs, Apple wouldn't care

01:07:52   because they've got a bazillion dollars and Moby doesn't.

01:07:55   Like, if it seemed like Apple's about to lose the case,

01:07:58   they would just buy Moby.

01:07:59   I mean, seriously, giant companies like Apple are not afraid of small companies like Mophie

01:08:05   when it comes to infringing patents because they could just tie them up in litigation

01:08:08   until the company goes out of business.

01:08:09   Not that they're like willfully infringing patents, but as I've said many times, everything

01:08:13   is patented.

01:08:14   There's tons of dumb patents.

01:08:15   There's nothing you can do in the technology sector that is not violating someone's patents.

01:08:19   So every single thing Apple does is violating somebody's patents, and that's true of every

01:08:22   technology company.

01:08:23   It's just the cost, the stupid cost of doing business.

01:08:26   And so Apple is not going to have some sort of meeting before designing their iPhone battery

01:08:31   case and say, "Let's take a survey of all the patents that are held by people who have

01:08:34   patents on iPhone battery cases and make sure whatever we do doesn't come close to one of

01:08:38   those, they're just going to make the case that they want to make."

01:08:42   If they didn't, they would be paralyzed.

01:08:43   Like it's like, "We're adding a feature to iOS.

01:08:45   Please spend six months trying to search for every super dumb patent that applies to what

01:08:49   we're planning."

01:08:50   They're just going to do it.

01:08:51   They're just going to do it and they're going to wait for somebody to sue them because that's

01:08:53   That's the way business works in this stupid world that we have here in the United States.

01:08:57   All right, anything else on the case?

01:08:59   I can't believe we talked for so long about a battery case.

01:09:02   Have you met us?

01:09:03   Of course we did.

01:09:04   By the way, did anyone order this?

01:09:06   I mean, you'll have six.

01:09:07   No, no.

01:09:08   Well, actually, I only have a six.

01:09:09   I assume it fits a six, right?

01:09:11   It does.

01:09:12   Yes, it does.

01:09:13   It doesn't fit the pluses, but it does fit the regulars.

01:09:15   No, I mean, I can see why people would choose this one.

01:09:18   You know, it does have some integration.

01:09:21   It does feel probably pretty good if you want a rubberized silicone case feel for grip purposes.

01:09:27   It is probably good for that, although I don't know whether the bulge in the back would be

01:09:32   more comfortable, less comfortable.

01:09:34   I don't know.

01:09:35   But I see why people would choose this one.

01:09:38   But I think anybody who...

01:09:40   This sounds so stupid.

01:09:41   Anybody who really cares about their battery case, I think would find many better options.

01:09:48   - It depends on what you care about.

01:09:50   may look rugged to some people. I'm not sure how the aesthetics will be received by people

01:09:57   who are not as obsessed with the Apple aesthetic as we are and perhaps the people listening

01:10:02   to this podcast are. Because Apple's design is a particular aesthetic and it appeals to

01:10:07   us obviously because we like Apple products and we buy them and stuff, but it's not necessarily

01:10:10   appealing to everybody. It's kind of like the Aston Martin aesthetic versus the Corvette

01:10:16   versus Ferrari, just historically speaking. Those are three very different styles and

01:10:20   And some people really like Aston Martin and think Corvettes are ugly, and some people

01:10:23   really like Corvettes and Mustangs and think Aston Martins don't appeal to them.

01:10:27   And the same thing with Ferrari.

01:10:29   Not every style appeals to every person.

01:10:32   And when I look at the style, I try to say, "Is this a style that would appeal to somebody?"

01:10:36   And what I think of is like power tools, you know?

01:10:39   Or maybe a combination of L.L. Bean and Dewalt power tools or something.

01:10:44   Like there is a sort of rugged, rubbery, grommety kind of aesthetic here that might actually

01:10:51   be appealing to some people and maybe there's more of them than there are the people who

01:10:55   want everything.

01:10:56   I would say apples in car manufacturer analogy is closest to like Aston Martin, but people

01:10:59   do like Corvettes and Mustangs and they have bulges and flares and nostrils and all sorts

01:11:03   of weird, rude things.

01:11:06   So I'm not entirely sure if this is actually, even though it is so different than the aesthetic

01:11:12   that we like from Apple, is it really unappealing to everybody? I mean, at the very least, your

01:11:17   phone will sit flat on the table.

01:11:18   - Oh, God. First of all, I think if Dewalt designed a battery case, they might have,

01:11:23   I don't even know, but if they did, it would be way better looking than this. Secondly,

01:11:28   I would far rather have a Corvette than this, and even though I don't like the way Corvettes

01:11:32   look, usually.

01:11:32   - Have you seen the back of the current one? I don't know.

01:11:35   - Yeah, it's pretty rough, but have you seen this? I mean, have you seen the battery case?

01:11:39   I have to say it's growing on me.

01:11:40   It's growing on me.

01:11:41   This one, I look at the back of this now, I start thinking it looks like the interior

01:11:46   of a space station set from a 1970s movie.

01:11:49   Wow, wow.

01:11:50   Like, take a bunch of these.

01:11:51   If you could do this in miniature, like, take a bunch of these, erase the Apple logo and

01:11:54   line them up to make like a hallway.

01:11:56   Like these are the walls of the hallway.

01:11:57   Oh my god.

01:11:58   I can see that.

01:11:59   That is from a sci-fi movie.

01:12:01   They're like little bulging around.

01:12:02   But what I've heard from, I think this was in the Mashable article, like, don't get the

01:12:06   white one, people.

01:12:07   I know, you know, we've already talked to Casey about this, but like white looks good

01:12:11   in some things, but for something you're going to hold, it's going to get dirty and gross

01:12:15   really fast.

01:12:16   Like there's no avoiding it.

01:12:17   We handle our phones all the time.

01:12:19   We put them in pockets.

01:12:20   We put them in purses.

01:12:21   We put them down on tables.

01:12:22   Do not get the white one unless you're okay with the fact that it's going to not look

01:12:26   like Apple's product shots for more than like a week.

01:12:29   Yeah.

01:12:30   Was it Christina's who said like it was discoloring after like one day?

01:12:33   Yeah.

01:12:34   I mean, how can it not?

01:12:35   It is magical, bright white, you know, Johnny Ives white world white.

01:12:39   Nothing will stay – if you touch it, nothing will stay that color, sorry.

01:12:43   Even like porcelain, even if it was made of fine china, I feel like it would eventually

01:12:47   get ugly.

01:12:48   But this is silicone.

01:12:49   It will not stay that color.

01:12:50   Yeah.

01:12:51   What else do we have to talk about?

01:12:53   We had a lot of updates.

01:12:54   All the things got updated.

01:12:55   Do we care?

01:12:56   Well, we could enumerate them and see if we have anything to say about them.

01:13:00   We got iOS 9.2.

01:13:01   Is there anything noteworthy there?

01:13:03   I updated my devices and did not notice anything and didn't recall seeing anything significant

01:13:07   in the change notes.

01:13:08   Uh, weren't you, was it you that was very upset about the done button in Safari View

01:13:13   Controller?

01:13:14   Uh, not upset.

01:13:15   Like, they keep moving stuff around.

01:13:17   Like, I don't know if it's better or worse than the other place.

01:13:21   It still hasn't fixed the actual thing that drives me nuts about Safari View Controllers

01:13:25   is as soon as you scroll it scrunches up and hides and then you have to do something else

01:13:29   to make it appear again before you can dismiss it.

01:13:31   That is the maddening thing.

01:13:32   care where the button is because the argument can be made either side it's like depends on what hand

01:13:36   you're holding the thing with or whatever like there is no right position for the done button

01:13:40   and maybe like i was thinking why did they move it maybe they were like well that's like where the

01:13:44   back button is like on the left side and even though this isn't a right to left navigation the

01:13:49   thing that makes it go away should be on the left and not the right i don't know what the thing was

01:13:53   but the bottom line is that it still disappears as soon as you start scrolling a web page and that

01:13:58   That is the real criminal act of iOS 8 and 9,

01:14:01   and not the position of the done button.

01:14:04   But yeah, that's the only thing I've noticed so far.

01:14:06   - I mean, I've heard from a couple Apple people

01:14:09   here and there that these were all

01:14:10   pretty substantial bug fix updates.

01:14:13   And that's good to hear, you know?

01:14:14   I kind of like when there's a significant update

01:14:18   that appears to contain nothing new, basically,

01:14:22   because that usually means a lot of bug fixes.

01:14:25   - I would have liked to see that in the change notes, though.

01:14:26   Like, that's what I was looking for.

01:14:27   "Yeah, show me all the bugs,"

01:14:29   but they didn't show anything.

01:14:30   - No, it improves performance and stability.

01:14:32   I mean, they're not gonna tell you,

01:14:34   here's 500 bugs that we fixed in these releases

01:14:38   because they're not gonna make themselves look bad.

01:14:40   - They do say some things, like they fixed,

01:14:44   I forget what changed on this, but like,

01:14:45   fixed the bugs that could cause whatever

01:14:47   and whatever application, something really obscure.

01:14:48   It's like, if you're gonna list that,

01:14:50   are you not listing the other things

01:14:52   that are equal in obscurity?

01:14:54   I don't quite understand the political machine

01:14:58   that determines what makes things be in release notes.

01:15:01   'Cause I do see stuff that sometimes,

01:15:02   it's not just like performance enhanced bug fixes,

01:15:04   there's like some very specific things in there

01:15:06   which makes me think, is there nothing else

01:15:08   of that same specificity as this release?

01:15:10   Surely there is, I don't know.

01:15:12   - Yeah, I think it's very PR massaged to be,

01:15:17   first of all, very passive, like,

01:15:20   fixes an issue in which certain people were affected

01:15:24   by a certain weird behavior.

01:15:28   They used worrying and freezing to be just very passive,

01:15:31   very like, this just kind of happened to us.

01:15:35   Yeah, it's PR, it's all PR.

01:15:40   - All right, yeah, I would agree, John,

01:15:41   I didn't notice anything, I've updated my iPad

01:15:43   and my iPhone, and Aaron's iPhone, updated my watch,

01:15:47   haven't noticed anything there.

01:15:49   So yeah.

01:15:50   - We got the OS X 10.11.2 update,

01:15:53   which those release notes also,

01:15:54   like they were like, "Hey, we added some fix

01:15:57   "for some bug in mail or something,

01:15:59   "but I saw you, Marco, asking on Twitter and to The Void,

01:16:02   "did they fix like USB audio fix,

01:16:05   "USB stack specifically related to audio?"

01:16:09   And you got, did you get any answers about that?

01:16:11   - Yeah, Tipster said that it,

01:16:13   'cause like there are a lot of problems in El Cap so far

01:16:16   regarding the USB stack and as it relates to audio devices.

01:16:20   Where a lot of times, and I've talked to a few other people,

01:16:22   I know this happens to them too, it isn't just me,

01:16:25   where a lot of times I will have my audio device

01:16:28   that I'm like playing music through or whatever,

01:16:30   just stop working completely.

01:16:32   Just like music just stops playing.

01:16:34   If you hit play in iTunes, the time doesn't even advance.

01:16:37   Like it's not even getting to the point

01:16:38   of sending the buffer out.

01:16:40   And then you try to select different sound output devices

01:16:42   and like it fails or you can't select one

01:16:45   or just disappears for a while.

01:16:47   And oftentimes it's fixed by just waiting like 10 minutes.

01:16:51   Oftentimes it's fixed by rebooting.

01:16:53   Very, very strange.

01:16:54   Apparently the USB stack had a lot of changes done in LCAP.

01:16:59   And so I've heard from various people,

01:17:01   including ATP Tipster,

01:17:03   that that has been now fixed in the .2 release.

01:17:06   So I'm excited to try it out.

01:17:08   I haven't actually installed it yet,

01:17:09   but I'm gonna install it after the show.

01:17:11   - Do you have these problems only on your computer,

01:17:13   which is festooned with German audio equipment

01:17:16   and USB things.

01:17:17   (laughing)

01:17:18   I'm wondering if it's like,

01:17:20   because you are exercising both the USB subsystem

01:17:23   and the audio component of that more than I am,

01:17:26   but I've had zero USB problems,

01:17:27   but I also do almost zero things involving USB.

01:17:30   All I do is like a couple times a week,

01:17:31   I plug in my USB mic to this one Mac and that's it.

01:17:34   Everything else is not,

01:17:36   I'm not unplugging and plugging things.

01:17:37   I don't have any other USB audio gear except for this mic

01:17:40   and I've had no problems.

01:17:41   I'm wondering if it's because you feel like you're actually using the USB stack in a much

01:17:48   more thorough way than I am that you're running into these problems.

01:17:51   And I guess your control group would be like Tiff's computer if she's not messing with

01:17:54   – maybe she is, maybe you've got all those mics hooked up to her computer too.

01:17:58   Can you tell if it's because you are actually doing USB and audio stuff that's causing

01:18:03   this?

01:18:04   The problem is the bugs aren't easily reproducible.

01:18:06   It just kind of happens out of nowhere maybe once a week or every few days.

01:18:11   So there's never any one thing that seems to trigger it, so I have no idea.

01:18:15   But hopefully it's fixed and I'm looking forward to seeing if it is fixed.

01:18:22   Other than that, LCAP has been very good for me.

01:18:24   It has not had any other real problems to speak of, but that's been a pretty annoying

01:18:29   one.

01:18:30   I think I've seen more people, like every once in a while someone will come across my

01:18:33   Twitter stream or something I'm blogging around like, "Apple should do a snow leopard release

01:18:37   where they just fix things or whatever."

01:18:39   like, didn't they just do that?

01:18:41   Like 10.11 is very, as we talked about, very snow leopardy where they didn't spend a lot

01:18:47   of time on big new features, they tried to do bug fixes, Discovery D kind of messed that

01:18:52   up a little bit, but here we are at 10.11.2, not too long after 10.11, by the time the

01:18:58   point two release comes to have dealt with the Discovery D, which was granted, which

01:19:02   was a hangover from Yosemite, see that one's like, oh they didn't fix that one very quickly,

01:19:06   it took a long time for them to fix it.

01:19:08   But anyway, by the time 1011.2 comes down, if we're kind of saying that the major problems

01:19:13   that were in 1011.0 perhaps seem to have been addressed, that's a reasonable timeline for

01:19:20   OS X releases.

01:19:21   By the .2, .3, or .4, most of the stuff should be shaken out.

01:19:25   And the .4 is like back in the day when it was 18 months or two years between releases.

01:19:29   But if it turns out that 1011.2 got the really big issues, aside from all the other stuff

01:19:36   which really has more to do with the server and the architecture and they can't actually fix by updating the OS which is sad but

01:19:42   Anyway, aside from that if they really have shaken everything out that I feel like that is fully on a snow leopardy

01:19:49   Type schedule people forget the snow leopard had some weird ass stuff in 10 6 0 as well

01:19:54   Like every release does so I'm I've been very happy with el cap so far. I upgraded everything on the day

01:20:00   It was released. I immediately apply all the point updates. I haven't regretted it. I have experienced no weirdness anywhere

01:20:06   again, other than iCloud stuff, which I really,

01:20:09   like anything that involves servers,

01:20:11   I don't blame the OS entirely for that.

01:20:13   - And really, I mean honestly, like in,

01:20:16   for a while the Mac kind of felt neglected,

01:20:19   because iOS was taking all the glory,

01:20:21   and all the time, and all the new stuff.

01:20:23   And then Apple started doing these like massive changes

01:20:25   to the Mac, trying to make it more like iOS,

01:20:27   like in the Lion era, and forward from that,

01:20:31   and it just started getting really weird, and really bad.

01:20:35   And then you had, I think Yosemite was kind of the peak

01:20:38   of Apple not only having mediocre ideas

01:20:43   on a lot of the Mac stuff, but also starting

01:20:45   to have really bad execution of a lot of it,

01:20:47   where it was just so buggy and so many problems.

01:20:50   - Leopard and Lion both had bad implementations

01:20:54   of everything too.

01:20:55   - That's true, fair enough, okay.

01:20:56   - Maybe it was just the odd releases.

01:20:57   - Maybe. (laughs)

01:20:58   But I feel like now we're getting to the point

01:21:01   where the neglect in favor of working on iOS

01:21:06   is actually helping the Mac most of the time

01:21:10   because now it's like you can leave us alone

01:21:13   and stop touching things and let us do our work

01:21:16   on this pretty stable platform

01:21:19   and you can go have your fun on iOS.

01:21:21   And the only thing we have to watch out for

01:21:24   is when they do one of these drive-by rewrites,

01:21:28   Discovery D was one, this USB subsystem in LCAP

01:21:31   seems to have been one, certainly the disk utility

01:21:34   in LCAP is one, they kind of do these drive-by rewrites

01:21:37   where they, for some reason, they decide something

01:21:40   needs to be dramatically rewritten or refactored

01:21:43   or redesigned or whatever, and they do an 80% job of it,

01:21:46   and then they just move on to other things,

01:21:48   and it leaves this subsystem broken for a while.

01:21:52   As long as we can minimize those times where that happens,

01:21:56   and they're leaving us mostly alone on the Mac,

01:21:59   I'm okay with that.

01:22:00   'Cause this is where we get our work done.

01:22:03   'Cause, well, those of us who aren't using iPad Pros.

01:22:05   But this is where we get our work done.

01:22:07   Please don't mess it up, please.

01:22:09   Just leave us alone, let it keep working.

01:22:12   Please stop updating it every year,

01:22:14   and please stop trying to do major,

01:22:16   like, massive shifts on it.

01:22:18   Just please.

01:22:19   - Well, like I said, they're not doing those

01:22:21   major rewrites for their health.

01:22:22   Like, they're doing them for a reason.

01:22:23   And the only difference is they just have to actually execute well on them.

01:22:27   Like I, two examples, I gave LaunchD as an example in the past of like,

01:22:31   why the hell are you replacing a NIT?

01:22:33   It's perfectly fine.

01:22:34   Like every Unix uses it.

01:22:35   Why do you think you have to have your own thing?

01:22:36   It's like second system syndrome, you screen it, but LaunchD is awesome.

01:22:39   Right.

01:22:40   And LaunchD was buggy at first too, but they did it.

01:22:42   And they did it because the existing thing that filled that role didn't

01:22:46   have the features they needed.

01:22:47   LaunchD does.

01:22:48   They, they executed it well enough that they didn't have to roll it back.

01:22:51   I know that's a low bar, but they did it well enough.

01:22:53   they didn't have to roll it back.

01:22:54   Most people didn't even notice it,

01:22:56   except for the fact that I wrote about it

01:22:58   in one of my old OS X reviews,

01:22:59   and they were like, "Oh, LaunchD, what's that?"

01:23:00   But I can tell you that the original version of LaunchD

01:23:02   had tons of bugs, but they got it done well enough,

01:23:06   and they moved forward.

01:23:07   Another example is IconServices,

01:23:09   which has had bugs, I don't know,

01:23:11   for how many freaking years?

01:23:12   Like, they're mostly cosmetic,

01:23:15   and maybe that's why they didn't get fixed,

01:23:16   but IconServices would corrupt its caches in some weird way,

01:23:19   and all your doc icons would show up all crazy

01:23:21   and pixelated for just years and years and years,

01:23:23   And it's like, obviously this isn't a quick bug fix.

01:23:25   Obviously there is something architecturally wrong

01:23:27   with icon services and someone needs to go in there

01:23:30   with a big wire brush and say, all right,

01:23:32   what the hell is going on icon services?

01:23:34   Let me deal with this, let me fix it.

01:23:36   And that took so many years to happen.

01:23:38   And honestly, I wish they had tackled that sooner.

01:23:40   Sometimes you have a subsystem,

01:23:42   they need it because it's super old and crusty

01:23:43   and it's not even yours.

01:23:44   And maybe it's like BSD code leftover from God knows when,

01:23:47   or because the first guy took a pass at it,

01:23:48   did a crappy job and you know,

01:23:50   you wanna take another, a second run at it

01:23:52   and do a better job.

01:23:53   That's what you have to do.

01:23:54   That's the job of basically the CoreOS group.

01:23:56   I want them to continue doing that.

01:23:57   I just want them to do a better job.

01:24:00   And I think they do a good job almost all the time.

01:24:02   And a lot of my old OS X reviews,

01:24:03   I've applauded the CoreOS group as a great example

01:24:06   of, "See guys, CoreOS is rewriting major components

01:24:09   and doing a good job and improving things

01:24:10   and fixing their bugs and year over year

01:24:12   making things better and adding features.

01:24:14   Why doesn't everybody else like say on the GUI team

01:24:16   or whatever do that?"

01:24:18   And the answer is like they have other stakeholders

01:24:20   let's say like people who care about aesthetics

01:24:23   and marketing and branding, whereas people doing LaunchD

01:24:25   have nobody worrying about aesthetics or branding

01:24:28   or anything like that.

01:24:29   But anyway, I'm totally in favor of them continuing

01:24:32   to look at their OS, decide which subsystems are really

01:24:38   due for either a really thorough spring cleaning

01:24:40   or maybe a complete replacement with something new.

01:24:43   You just have to do it well enough

01:24:44   that you don't have to roll it back when Vint Cerf complains

01:24:47   about it six months later.

01:24:50   I feel like that's a low bar.

01:24:52   But that isn't a given though.

01:24:54   I think modern Apple with this incredibly relentless annual release schedule of everything,

01:25:02   all these different product lines that keep expanding into even more product lines and

01:25:05   having the engineering resources spread incredibly thin and constantly moving around between

01:25:10   things, I feel like what we keep seeing from Apple is that they don't seem to be incredibly

01:25:18   good anymore at doing these big rewrites of subsystems or big new initiatives. Their record

01:25:24   is pretty bad.

01:25:25   What have they screwed up besides DiscoveryD?

01:25:28   Apple Music is a big one.

01:25:30   Like the USB one I would say is a success, especially at this point too. If you have

01:25:35   a big refactoring and a big change to a major subsystem and you get all the kinks worked

01:25:40   out of it by point two, that's probably pretty much all you can hope for. That's a pretty

01:25:45   good job. I still have faith in those groups to be able to do this. And the yearly schedule,

01:25:51   you can debate about that, but really, if they're competent, and I think they mostly

01:25:55   are, all yearly schedule does is push features that take more than one release out farther.

01:26:01   Because every release has a certain amount of overhead associated with it. And the more

01:26:04   releases you have, it's like, say you want to do a feature, and it's like, I know this

01:26:07   feature is too big to fit into one release. I'm not going to say file system, but you

01:26:10   know, you can think of something else. I know this feature is too big to fit into one release.

01:26:15   How do I do this project at Apple?

01:26:17   And Apple would say, you can do that project just fine.

01:26:20   You just have to be on a multi-year plan.

01:26:22   If your thing takes a year and a half,

01:26:23   we're not going to cut a release in a year and a half for you.

01:26:25   You're just going to be on the two-year one.

01:26:27   So there's the overhead of each release that adds to just--

01:26:30   it's just overhead.

01:26:30   It just adds to the work that everybody has to do.

01:26:34   And then your schedules just get pushed out.

01:26:36   Really, yearly releases is simply

01:26:38   a matter of good management of software organization.

01:26:42   What's above the line?

01:26:43   What's below the line?

01:26:44   What fits in this release?

01:26:45   What doesn't?

01:26:46   And if you do a good job about keeping things in and booting them out, I mean, you could

01:26:49   even say Discovery D was the problem of that.

01:26:51   Not as if they did a bad job on Discovery D, but during the meetings when they say what's

01:26:54   in and what's out for 10.10, someone should have said, "We really wanted to do Discovery

01:27:00   D in this one, but it's not up to snuff yet.

01:27:02   Boot it to 10.11.

01:27:03   Boot it to 10.12."

01:27:04   You just keep kicking it down the road.

01:27:06   That is the exercise.

01:27:07   You could have, until you get down to a certain point where the overhead dwarfs the amount

01:27:10   of dev time you have, you could have six-month releases if you wanted.

01:27:13   It's all just a matter of how you draw the line for project management parlance, what's

01:27:18   in and what's out for this release, what's ready to go and what's not ready to go.

01:27:22   So I think having an organization that is disciplined in that way, and I think, I don't

01:27:27   know if you can contribute to Craig Federighi or whoever, they went from the sort of loosey-goosey,

01:27:32   artistic, "We'll release the OS when it's ready," Steve Jobs kind of "Let's figure it

01:27:37   out" type of thing, to a much more regimented, "We're going to put ourselves on a yearly

01:27:42   We're gonna be disciplined about it. That is that is much more sort of

01:27:46   You know a business 101

01:27:49   Like we should be able to do this. We if we are an efficient good organization

01:27:53   It shouldn't be like well, I don't really know when the next OS is coming out

01:27:56   It's whenever it's done and you know

01:27:57   Well, the iPhone is taking some time away so leopards gonna be a little later

01:28:01   It's like no we didn't release every year and if your stuff doesn't make it

01:28:03   It doesn't make it but you know, the train is leaving the station with or without you

01:28:06   I think doing that inside Apple was a really good decision

01:28:10   They're just working on like what needs to fit in it and not fit in those releases

01:28:15   Alright, what else got updated?

01:28:18   WatchOS got updated. Big news!

01:28:20   Actually that is sort of big news

01:28:22   Real time follow-up for myself. I didn't notice any WatchOS updates except I went to kick off the workflow

01:28:30   I have to tell Aaron I'm on my way home

01:28:33   So this is using the workflow app and it will

01:28:36   figure out the driving time from where I am to the house and then queue up a text message

01:28:40   for Aaron saying I'll be home in like 15 minutes or whatever.

01:28:44   It used to be on the watch that I would kick off that workflow and then I would have to

01:28:49   do handoff to actually send the text message, but now I can run that workflow and it is

01:28:54   capable of sending the text message from the watch, which is super exciting.

01:28:59   I know you're both really happy that that has changed.

01:29:02   Eric Meyer Why do the watch updates take so long?

01:29:04   That's my question.

01:29:05   It's such a small device, it has such a little story.

01:29:07   What is it doing?

01:29:08   - Honestly, I think it's because the watch

01:29:10   is just really slow.

01:29:12   I mean, CPU-wise, it seems to be roughly on the level

01:29:15   of an iPhone 3GS, and if you look at Geekbench iOS benchmarks

01:29:20   by Geekbench standards, the iPhone 3GS is about 16 times

01:29:26   slower than an iPhone 6S, so if you think about

01:29:30   the kind of thing it's doing, it's running on a processor

01:29:35   that's 16 times slower than what we're accustomed to.

01:29:37   Now granted, it's a simpler OS,

01:29:40   I'm sure the patching process is simpler, et cetera,

01:29:42   but keep that in mind as the baseline of like,

01:29:45   everything that it does that has to patch with that CPU

01:29:48   is going through something 16 times slower

01:29:50   than an iPhone 6S.

01:29:51   - I wonder if the storage has gotta be slower too,

01:29:53   and I wonder what the bottleneck is.

01:29:54   Is the bottleneck the CPU, is the bottleneck storage?

01:29:56   Hell, maybe the bottleneck's RAM for all we know.

01:29:58   - Yeah, and it could be the wireless connection

01:30:01   of receiving the update, who knows what it,

01:30:03   It's a lot of things, but I think primarily

01:30:06   it's because the CPU is just so incredibly slow in it.

01:30:09   But, we'll see.

01:30:10   Honestly, thinking about, there's been rumors

01:30:12   of the second watch coming out,

01:30:15   possibly even as soon as the spring,

01:30:17   which wouldn't be that ridiculous

01:30:18   since the last one came out last spring.

01:30:20   And there's been rumors about what it might be.

01:30:24   The biggest one is that it might have a FaceTime camera,

01:30:26   which sounds terrible to me, honestly.

01:30:29   It sounds like you wouldn't wanna be

01:30:30   on either end of that conversation.

01:30:32   but what is a little bit disappointing

01:30:36   is that I haven't heard anything about it being faster.

01:30:38   All the rumors are about FaceTime cameras

01:30:40   and Wi-Fi abilities, and I hope they can make it faster

01:30:43   because I've had a lot of trouble figuring out

01:30:47   how to really use the watch beyond the watch face.

01:30:50   Anything involving apps or even glances on the watch

01:30:52   I have gotten very little into,

01:30:55   and part of it is because it's just so incredibly slow

01:30:57   to do pretty much anything.

01:31:00   So if the watch gets a lot faster over the next few years,

01:31:04   I think that will change what we can do with it dramatically.

01:31:07   I think it will really make it a lot more useful

01:31:09   for a lot of different third-party app abilities

01:31:12   where right now, you do anything on the watch right now

01:31:16   and it takes so long that you're like,

01:31:18   well, I might as well take it out my phone for that.

01:31:20   - Yeah, that's kind of sad that the watch,

01:31:22   like if the watch had come out in error before,

01:31:24   like the iPhone 6 caliber devices

01:31:26   that are just so much faster,

01:31:28   maybe wouldn't have as much to compare it to,

01:31:29   I was I was gonna make the comparison the iPhone one remember the iPhone one came out and it was so responsive

01:31:33   But was it really compared to I know people do these videos of like here's an iPhone one versus an iPhone 6

01:31:38   And what's we were responsive and they really did do an amazing job and keeping the iPhone one responsive

01:31:42   But it seems like they they couldn't they couldn't get that kind of

01:31:47   Perceptive, you know perceived responsiveness in the watch just because you're always constantly comparing it to your iPhone 6 which is a bazillion times more

01:31:54   powerful

01:31:55   And yeah, especially watch kid in the first time doing like the remote app thing that just made it even worse

01:32:00   So you're right the watch does the watch feel slow

01:32:03   Although when I think of like oh the next version of the watch

01:32:06   I know we talked about this at length before but like what does the watch need to be as far as I'm concerned other than

01:32:10   Software being faster. I want to be thinner. I

01:32:13   Know this seems like this should be an Apple's wheelhouse like they're good at making things thinner, right?

01:32:18   And inevitably it will be but as we've discussed many times maybe not in the next version, right?

01:32:22   But eventually it'll be thinner so we can look forward to the the the Apple watch 4 that is

01:32:28   Thinner and faster and now now we were really starting to talk and it still doesn't necessarily mean

01:32:33   You know having spent all this time with this watch and everything. I still am not entirely convinced that there is a

01:32:40   Way, you know no matter how fast it was that there is something useful you can do with the watch that is

01:32:45   Appy in the same way that that phone things are happy. I mostly think of it as I would like to go

01:32:52   near a device or into a room or

01:32:54   Into a place or at a certain time and have the watch

01:32:59   Look and behave differently based on that so I don't have to mess with it

01:33:03   mostly the thing I do is look at the watch and

01:33:06   When I look at it because of where I am or what time it is or what has happened somewhere else

01:33:12   It shows me something that is useful

01:33:14   Right, whether it's I sit down in front of my TV and pick up my wrist and I can talk into it

01:33:21   uses a Siri remote so I don't have to find the remote or like when it's time to go if

01:33:26   I just look at my watch and it tells me the proactive traffic thing like I'm not what

01:33:30   I'm getting at is I'm not touching my watch I'm not swiping on it I'm not using the digital

01:33:33   crown I'm not pushing buttons or even if I'm just pushing buttons like you know like I

01:33:37   said the one interaction that I really like with it is double tap and use it as the to

01:33:40   do Apple Pay because I don't really have to look at the watch then I can feel for the

01:33:43   button double tap like half the time it's still underneath the sleeve of my coat I can't

01:33:47   I can't even see it, but I still Apple Pay with it.

01:33:49   So far, that is the most convincing interactions

01:33:52   for the watch for me.

01:33:53   And I, like you Marco, I'm never using that interface

01:33:58   as if it's a tiny phone, even for like three seconds.

01:34:03   - No, and to me, I agree with everything you basically,

01:34:07   almost everything you just said.

01:34:07   It's like, whenever I'm using the watch,

01:34:10   it is mostly about quickly glancing at it

01:34:13   for the watch to tell me something.

01:34:15   I am hardly ever touching the watch to interact with it

01:34:17   on any level, really.

01:34:18   And if I am, it's maybe one tap or something.

01:34:20   It's very little.

01:34:22   Because if you're gonna use the watch

01:34:24   for more than about three seconds to do anything,

01:34:27   it feels like a failure.

01:34:28   Like it feels like, oh, I kind of regret this.

01:34:31   I should have gone to my phone for this.

01:34:33   Oftentimes, you still need to.

01:34:34   I mean, oftentimes, one of the things I like so much

01:34:36   about the watch is getting notifications on it.

01:34:39   But a lot of times, I have to take out my phone anyway

01:34:42   to act on those notifications

01:34:43   or to even read the whole thing or something.

01:34:47   So it's a little bit of a mixed bag.

01:34:49   It is nice in theory, and sometimes it really is really nice

01:34:53   but in practice I have to keep taking my phone out anyway.

01:34:58   The more the watch can do faster for you

01:35:00   without you touching it or doing anything to it,

01:35:03   and if you do need to touch it,

01:35:04   the more it can do in very fast response to that touch,

01:35:08   the better it is as a product.

01:35:10   And it doesn't feel like an app platform

01:35:13   in the traditional way at all.

01:35:15   It feels like Apple tried to wedge an app platform onto it,

01:35:18   and maybe they just didn't realize

01:35:20   how it wouldn't really work.

01:35:22   - Yeah, I think you have to give it those capabilities

01:35:24   even if those apps, like with all the things

01:35:27   we're talking about, could be powered by apps

01:35:29   if those apps are given sufficient power.

01:35:30   So I think it's kind of like you just have to

01:35:33   make the APIs and see if someone,

01:35:35   they don't know what's going to be,

01:35:37   it's kind of like with the iPhone,

01:35:38   you don't know what kind of apps people are gonna make.

01:35:40   Apple have predicted like an Angry Birds style game would be such a big hit because of touch

01:35:45   controls and pulling back the little slingshot and everything. You just have to kind of,

01:35:48   I think it's smart to make it a platform because whether you can figure out what's going to be

01:35:52   the apps that work on it or not, the more capabilities you give people,

01:35:56   you know, they'll try everything. The things that don't work, like it's no skin off your back.

01:36:00   Someone tried it, it failed. Like it's good to have a big open space to experiment. It could be

01:36:05   that it ends up that none of those things work. Or it could be that Apple hasn't exposed the right

01:36:09   capabilities to the apps. Like if you can imagine a much more powerful watch that gives apps awareness

01:36:15   of like where you are, if you're near an Apple TV or like sort of background type processing so that

01:36:21   third-party apps could do any of those things that I just described, then third-party apps would have

01:36:25   the capability to figure out what people do and don't want from it. And you know like I think it

01:36:32   if you don't make it a platform then it's incumbent on Apple to figure out every possible

01:36:35   thing you could do with useful. If you do make it a platform everybody can try all sorts of things

01:36:39   most of which will fail and eventually we'll figure out what it's good for and I think so I think it was smart to make

01:36:43   it a platform but

01:36:44   So far everything people have tried including Apple. It's been like yeah. No, that's not it. Keep keep trying

01:36:49   The custom complications I think was a fairly big success because those are things that you know

01:36:54   You glance at and they tell you stuff, but that's it's a very small success. So we're still kind of waiting

01:36:59   Yeah, my update on by the way not being a watch person

01:37:03   I you know, I just don't like things on my wrist and like winter has made it worse because now I have like a you

01:37:09   know, heavier coat that like kind of interferes with, you know, the heavier coat sleeves and


01:37:15   JEAN: Oh yeah.

01:37:16   Anything long-sleeved is not that pleasant with a watch, to be honest.

01:37:18   MATT: And gloves and over it and like it's just making it more annoying.

01:37:21   And so I had a couple of days over the past few weeks where I realized I never looked

01:37:26   at my watch.

01:37:27   I put it on in the morning to go to work.

01:37:28   I took it off when I came home from work and during the entire time at work, it never vibrated.

01:37:32   I never looked at it.

01:37:34   I guess I ignored the stand things or maybe I didn't feel them or I don't know.

01:37:38   And I'm like, "Why did you even put it on today because you didn't look at it?"

01:37:41   And so now I have, it feels real uncomfortable with a winter jacket and my gloves and I know

01:37:46   I've had days where I haven't looked at it at all.

01:37:48   So now a few days I've decided, you know what, I'm not wearing it today.

01:37:51   So I don't know if I'm slowly like, you know, again, it doesn't take much to make me not

01:37:55   want to wear it because I am so not a watch person.

01:37:59   So I may, that's my new thing now.

01:38:01   Now instead of putting it on every time I remember, sometimes I remember to put it on

01:38:05   and I choose not to.

01:38:06   So that's, you know, I'm not going to say it's bad for the watch because again, I was

01:38:10   not a watch person and the Apple Watch did not make me a watch person.

01:38:13   I still think it looks nice.

01:38:14   I still like wearing it sometimes.

01:38:16   If I was going to like go out on the town or walk around the city or go, I would definitely

01:38:20   wear it because I think it would sort of earn its keep then.

01:38:24   But for days when I just commute into the office and sit in front of my computer all

01:38:26   day and come home, sometimes it doesn't earn its keep.

01:38:29   - Yeah, I'm gonna see, I mentioned that I'm getting

01:38:32   a mechanical watch this Christmas,

01:38:35   and I'm gonna try wearing that day to day for a while

01:38:37   and just see like, you know, am I,

01:38:40   I do like having a watch a lot now,

01:38:44   but I don't know if I like it just because I like

01:38:46   the fashionability and the time aspects of it.

01:38:49   - The time aspects, you're staring at,

01:38:51   like you're looking at the upper right of your screen

01:38:52   all day, the time is there, unless you're hiding

01:38:54   the menu bar in an OS X, you're not doing that, are you?

01:38:57   - No, but I'm not always at my computer.

01:38:59   I wish I was, but--

01:39:01   - You aren't?

01:39:02   Somehow I think you are.

01:39:03   I always picture you, where is Marco right now,

01:39:05   sitting in front of his computer?

01:39:06   - I wish.

01:39:07   - Well, you're in line for chicken salad sometimes,

01:39:09   I understand.

01:39:10   (laughing)

01:39:11   - It's New York, I'm online.

01:39:13   - Yeah, that's true.

01:39:14   - Yeah, but no, I mean, it's, yeah.

01:39:16   The reality is, you know, I have a life,

01:39:18   I'm up and around, I have a family, I have a house,

01:39:20   and I drive to get chicken salad every day, so.

01:39:22   - And you need to know what time it is.

01:39:24   - Yeah, I'm out and around a lot,

01:39:25   and I have been totally converted now.

01:39:27   I love having the time on my wrist.

01:39:29   - What a great idea, who thought of that?

01:39:32   - Yeah, right, a totally new idea.

01:39:34   So I love that now, but I'm gonna see,

01:39:38   'cause there's also a lot about the Apple Watch

01:39:40   I don't really care for, and so I'm gonna see,

01:39:43   am I a watch person or am I an Apple Watch person?

01:39:47   So we'll find out.

01:39:48   Anyway, I don't know, is that it for this week?

01:39:50   This has been a weird episode.

01:39:51   - Yeah, I think we're good.

01:39:53   - Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week,

01:39:54   Backblaze, Casper, and Squarespace,

01:39:56   and we'll see you next week.

01:39:58   (upbeat music)

01:40:00   Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin

01:40:05   'Cause it was accidental (accidental)

01:40:08   Oh, it was accidental (accidental)

01:40:11   John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:40:15   'Cause it was accidental (accidental)

01:40:18   Oh, it was accidental (accidental)

01:40:21   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:40:26   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:40:31   @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:40:35   So that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:40:39   Anti-Marco Arman, S-I-R-A-C

01:40:45   U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-S-A

01:40:47   It's accidental

01:40:50   They didn't mean to

01:40:53   Accidental

01:40:55   Tech podcast so long

01:41:00   I'm going to assume Marco you did not get like a $40 timex what is it speedmaster whatever it is that I used to wear?

01:41:06   No, you know that would be the more intelligent thing to do if you wanted to just try out wearing a watch

01:41:10   No, he likes the jewelry. Yes. He's shopping in like Tiffany's

01:41:13   For things you know there. It's jewelry and it also or jewelry as people tell me I mispronounce it

01:41:19   Maybe that's long. I don't think too. I don't know anyway

01:41:21   Yeah, like you're you're mostly shopping for a lot of these shopping for watchers like I find these watches ugly

01:41:28   So you're never gonna buy an ugly one.

01:41:29   You're gonna find one that looks nice to you.

01:41:31   And then after that, it's like, okay, it looks nice,

01:41:33   but is it terribly uncomfortable when I wear it,

01:41:35   and so on and so forth.

01:41:36   - Yeah, and honestly, I have found very few watches,

01:41:40   like of most, the big brands like Rolex, Amiga,

01:41:44   there have been very few of those that I've seen

01:41:47   that I've thought I would like that.

01:41:50   For whatever reason, most well-respected mechanical watches,

01:41:55   their design aesthetic just does not mesh with me at all.

01:41:59   Like I just, I don't get it, you know,

01:42:01   it doesn't do anything for me.

01:42:03   A lot of them, they seem like they're like made for

01:42:05   like diving.

01:42:07   There's so many of these big,

01:42:09   of these like well-known mechanical watches

01:42:11   that are just like made for like racing and diving

01:42:15   and stuff like that, or boats.

01:42:16   - They're not really made for that.

01:42:18   - Well, but they all look like that.

01:42:19   - Made for people who would like to think of themselves

01:42:21   as someone who might go racing or diving,

01:42:22   but never actually will.

01:42:24   - Right, but then they have all this garbage

01:42:25   over the face, and it's like, I don't want that.

01:42:28   I want something that just looks nice and simple.

01:42:31   - It's like the non-functional hood scoop on cars.

01:42:33   Everything has a car analogy.

01:42:34   (laughing)

01:42:35   - Of course.

01:42:36   - It's a hood scoop, but it's not connected to anything.

01:42:37   It was like, if you had something that needed, you know,

01:42:40   to have fresh air forced into it, that might make your

01:42:42   engine more powerful.

01:42:43   You don't have one of those, but we can put a hole

01:42:45   in your hood anyway, and you'll feel cool.

01:42:47   - So the watch that I was referring to, the cheapo watch

01:42:49   that you should get, is not the Speedmaster.

01:42:52   I'm sure I'm gonna get angry emails about that.

01:42:54   It's the Timex Weekender, and I will put a link into the chat and the show notes.

01:42:59   This is what I used to wear, not this exact, not this band, but it was the same face.

01:43:04   This is what I used to wear before I got my Apple Watch.

01:43:06   It's a delightful, simple, classic watch.

01:43:09   That's honestly, that's nice.

01:43:10   I like that.

01:43:11   Yeah, it's $25.

01:43:12   I don't like the band.

01:43:13   No, the band is terrible.

01:43:14   No, no, no, the band is terrible.

01:43:15   I had a different band.

01:43:16   But yeah, the face is nice.

01:43:17   It's a nice watch.

01:43:18   So you could try out your newfound love of something else that's expensive and frivolous with this $25 watch

01:43:26   But no because it's Marco you're going to get something expensive and frivolous

01:43:29   That's right all those big expensive watch especially like you said

01:43:33   Casey that like the style for men's fancy watches has just been to like to be like just

01:43:39   Giant hunks of metal like it's like I already find anything

01:43:42   I'm a rest uncomfortable and you're just gonna make it worse by just being filled with really heavy like hard

01:43:48   hard, jagged, lumpy metal. Oh, just, just I can't even think about it. And I have thin

01:43:54   wrists and I have weird shaped wrists and yeah, watches are not for me. I would sooner

01:43:59   buy a pocket watch. You know what? I would buy a pocket watch shaped like the Omni, which

01:44:02   is another reference you guys don't get. I would buy that, but I would not buy a regular

01:44:05   watch.

01:44:06   I mean, we all have our vices and I guess, Marco, you're in need of another one. Did

01:44:11   you figure out headphones now? You figured out coffee, you figured out headphones. Now

01:44:14   you need something else to work on?

01:44:15   He's still on the hunt for headphones, never satisfied.

01:44:18   So he's, when a new one comes out, he always thinks his promise.

01:44:20   Maybe this will be the one that is lighter than my other headphone, but also sounds as good,

01:44:24   but has a better chord that doesn't flake out, but this, but that, like, it's like me and toasters.

01:44:28   [BEEP]