147: Here I Am, I'm a Battery
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- Oh, the only question is,
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are we gonna make Brent Simmons angry with the comma splice,
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and here I am on my battery.
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You can make it a semicolon, you can make it a period,
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if you leave it as a comma, it's a comma splice,
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but I feel like it's an informal,
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and since it is a someone speaking,
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you could consider it someone speaking,
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sometimes people speak in things that are not sentences.
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- I definitely would not do a semicolon,
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'cause that just is wrong.
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I mean, I know it's grammatically right,
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but I just hate them.
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- You just hate, like on principle, like ever?
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- Not never, but it takes a lot
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for me to use a semicolon.
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- What does it take?
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- It needs to be really, really worth it.
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- What does it take?
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- It has to really be the right thing to use there
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and there has to be no good alternatives.
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That's why I really rarely use semicolons
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'cause I don't like them.
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- So then it'd be period, here I am, period.
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But anyway, I just leave it as a comma.
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- Well, but it has to be two periods.
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It has to be here I am, period, I'm a battery, period.
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- Yeah, but we don't put periods in titles, so yeah.
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So we'll just leave the comma in there.
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We'll just dare Brent to yell at us about it.
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Go ahead, come and get us.
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The entire internet wrote in to tell us that there is already a lightning to headphone
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jack adapter, which is not at all useful if you're anywhere other than your desk.
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But in the defense of the entire internet, we were talking mostly about using this sort
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of adapter at work as you listen to podcasts or music all day long.
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Apple sells a lightning to headphone jack adapter with pass-through lightning for charging.
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It's the $40 lightning dock, which I believe came out recently, didn't it?
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But that's got like a DAC in it and that's for like the digital, the headphones that
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take digital audio over the lighting port.
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Like that's not really relevant to what we were discussing, which was if they replaced
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the headphone jack with the lightning port and still wanted to support regular plain
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old analog headphones with an adapter that did not require, you know, any signal conversion
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or anything.
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It would just, you know, be a metal pass through to the audio pins of the headphone.
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And that's not what the lighting dock does.
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So how would you describe Lightning Dock instead then?
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- It is basically a thing to let you both plug in
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the current crop of Lightning-compatible headphones
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and also a charter at the same time.
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- Fair enough.
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One way or another, this is not the sort of thing
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that we would expect one to take running around with them
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as they're trying to use it to adapt Lightning
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to a regular headphone jack.
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This would serve the purpose for desk use,
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not for mobile use. And that's mostly what we were talking about last episode, but yes.
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We wanted to publicly acknowledge on behalf of the entire internet who wrote into us that
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we are aware that this exists. So Eric Michael's Ober had a little bit of
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feedback with regard to why else you would want to use the Lightning port for audio.
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He pointed out that noise-canceling headphones don't need their own battery or any other
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their charging mechanism because they can just draw power right off the lightning port,
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much like the Apple Pencil does.
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Which you may or may not want. Like, do you really want your noise-canceling headphones
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sucking power from your phone? Maybe. Maybe not.
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Well, you know, we have all this extra battery power on the phones. Might as well use it
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for other purposes.
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So much is practically bursting out of the phone there so much battery power.
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Well played, sir. We'll get there. All right. And then I have no idea who we're attributing
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- MX, good old MX.
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- Okay, and he or she said that USB type C
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already supports analog audio.
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Check out appendix A in the spec
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and we will link to the spec in the show notes.
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John, I believe you've bolded some passages here.
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Would you like to share that with the group?
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- Yeah, the spec by the way is a PDF.
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Like we're linking to the page that has the PDF on it.
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So you can just download the PDF and find this.
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But in appendix A--
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- Sounds fun.
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- Yeah, you will find out that,
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the reason this comes up is because last time we're like,
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I said one of the advantages of lightning
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is that if Apple wants to add support for plain old analog audio either by adding those
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two weird side contacts that I seem to remember seeing somewhere and I still can't find, or
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just by repurposing the pins because the whole deal with Lightning is you can use the different
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pins for different purposes, it's not sort of hardwired so to speak to do a particular
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thing, that Apple has the flexibility to do that.
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They don't have to wait for the USB committee or whatever to agree but it turns out USB-C
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already supports analog audio.
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I should have figured that since it's an old standard.
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If you have your USB-C connector in audio adapter accessory
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mode, it just takes a certain number of pins in the USB
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and uses them for the same exact signals that go over 3.5
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million or headphone jack.
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So that's already supported in USB-C.
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And by the way, the other thing I found out
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about USB-C relevant to our conversation last time
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about whether Apple was all in on Lightning
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or whether they were going to eventually switch to USB-C,
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USB-C is bigger than Lightning.
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This shows how many USB-C devices I have in my house.
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I'm pretty sure I have zero, maybe I have one, I don't know about it somewhere, but
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anyway I've never, I don't have an idea of what they're like, but looking it up online
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afterwards USB-C is slightly bigger and that pretty much dooms Apple to ever switch to
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it because they're going to be like, "well, lightning is smaller so why would we ever
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switch to that thing?"
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So I think we're in it for the long haul for lightning even though USB-C apparently already
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supports analog auto and you could definitely make that passive connector thing for old
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style headphones if you were using USB-C.
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Speaking of USB, and in this case USB 3, we are now getting USB 3 speeds from the new
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Lightning test SD card camera reader that came out just in the last couple of days as
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And for the iPad Pro, you get USB 3 speeds on that.
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And that's pretty exciting.
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I've never actually used one of these.
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Do you guys have one of them?
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I have the USB one, which I use for like audio purposes, which is actually, it's like this
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totally undocumented thing that it can do.
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You can plug in a lot of USB audio interfaces to it
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and have different sound inputs or outputs
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for your iOS devices.
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And that actually has worked on iPhones and iPads
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basically forever.
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But my father-in-law used the SD card one
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for a little while on his iPad.
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It was fine, it was okay.
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- I think what interests me most about these USB3 speeds
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in the iPad Pro is for people like me,
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maybe I'm rare in this, who still hook up their iOS devices
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to one of their big computers and do an encrypted local backup instead of just relying on the
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iCloud backup, it takes so long to do it at USB 2.0 speeds.
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So if I could get USB 3.0 speeds when doing a local backup to my computer through iTunes,
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I would really appreciate that, even for my dinky 32 and 64 gig devices, let alone if
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we got like a 128 gig iPad Pro.
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So I'm assuming you have one, Marco.
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I'm assuming if you were to hook it up to your Mac with the USB cable, it would still
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be USB 2.0 speeds?
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As far as I know, because I think all the existing Lightning to USB cables, I think
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are all USB 2 cables.
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So I don't think that's doable yet, but hopefully over time that'll be solved just in time for
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people to stop ever syncing their things to their computers.
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Well, I don't know if you want to ever stop, because as people who have ever restored from
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iCloud can attest, it's such a super pain.
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Oh yeah, I will still do it, and Tiff will still do it, but I think we are already in
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the extreme minority there.
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Anyway, that's the accessory they need to release.
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forget about this whole, you know, like the whole exciting thing was like, "Wow, the
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Lightning port supports USB 3.0 speeds, but only in the iPad Pro," and, you know, surely
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that will trickle down and that'll be great. But I don't want an SD card reader. I want
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a thing that plugs into my computer for it.
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Steven: Yeah, for what it's worth, I actually put this on my Christmas list for this year.
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I don't know if I would necessarily—you know, it's a great gift because it's the
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sort of thing I wouldn't necessarily buy for myself, but hey, if somebody handed it
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to me, that'd be pretty awesome. And the reason I want one is because there are probably
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going to come times when I'm traveling with our Micro Four Thirds camera, I didn't decide
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to bring a laptop with me and I only have my iPad.
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And I could connect the camera to the iPad by way of Wi-Fi, but it's actually surprisingly
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slow to do it that way.
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And so I think it would be a lot easier to just pull the SD card out of the camera and
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attach it to the iPad or phone for that matter, and suck some pictures off of there that way
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in order to post on Instagram or maybe just send to friends or family or what have you.
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So I'm curious to see if I end up getting this for Christmas, and if I do, I'll report
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But I agree with you, Marco, by and large, that it's not a lot of people that would want
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this, but I kind of want one because I think it would be useful.
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It's kind of a testament to the crappiness of wireless.
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We talked about the last show about like, is Wi-Fi above the level of flakiness?
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But how many people use Wi-Fi syncing to iTunes?
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Maybe that's not, you can't blame Wi-Fi for that.
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You can just blame iTunes because there's so much.
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But even with cameras, so many cameras have Wi-Fi, or remember that stupid iFi thing,
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like it was the SD card with Wi-Fi built in or whatever.
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And then it's like desktop Linux, like the next, oh, this one, the new model we just
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made is finally the good one, and it never is.
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For the cameras, for the cameras that have built in Wi-Fi support, that's what you want.
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You want that and you also want it to work.
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But you want it until you try it.
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Yeah, I know, but what's the problem?
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Wi-Fi itself, technologically speaking, is an okay technology.
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We all use wireless devices all around our house and they more or less maintain the connection
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and we get reasonable speeds based on what we think the signal strength is and yet when
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we have a super expensive camera 30 inches away from a super expensive iPad, the best
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way we have to talk to them is to open up the camera in a little waterproof or water
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resistant compartment, pull out this tiny little card, plug this little thing into the
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lightning port, shove the little, it's just, you're right there guys, you both have radios,
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you both, like what's the problem here?
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Is it because camera manufacturers don't know how to do Wi-Fi stacks?
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I don't know what the deal is, but it's sad.
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- Well, they all have their own apps, basically.
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It's like my camera has built in Wi-Fi, finally.
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Like it took me years to finally get one that had that.
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But in order to use it, I have to install Sony's dumb app on my phone, which works about
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a third of the time.
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And when you do finally get it to work, you kind of regret that you got it to work, because
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it's just so mediocre and so slow.
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It actually would have been faster to just take the car out of the camera and shove it
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into this thing than it is to do the Wi-Fi thing.
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Yeah, but that feels barbaric, though, taking things apart and putting them together.
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I feel like I'm using a VCR, but it's faster.
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I completely agree.
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My Olympus, it isn't—the app is relatively reliable, but it is astonishingly slow to
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transfer pictures between the camera and the phone or the iPad.
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And it's very, very frustrating.
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Now, the app is nice in that, for general things, like it'll let me geotag based on
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what the phone is doing.
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So it'll take a log of all the places I go and all the timestamps and whatnot, and then
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it'll send those to the phone and then geotag all the pictures on the phone, or excuse me,
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send those to the camera.
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And it'll geotag all the pictures on the camera, which I really like on the occasions where
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I'm not just staying put somewhere.
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And it also lets you do like a remote viewfinder sort of thing.
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So much like you can with the watch and the phone, it'll let you take pictures remotely,
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which is really nice if you're too socially awkward to say to somebody, "Hey, can you
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take our picture?"
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But I cannot say enough how awfully slow it is to transfer pictures.
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And because of that, I agree with you, Marco.
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I just end up taking the damn card out of the camera and putting it in a computer.
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And we have some good news this week.
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Our long national nightmare is over.
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We now have an Apple remote app for iOS that works with the new Apple TV
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Which would be more exciting to me if I had a new Apple TV. Well, we don't have a my understanding
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I haven't tested this but my understanding is it's not as if they released a new version of the remote app that works with
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Apple TV. It's the opposite. They recent released a new version of the Apple TV OS that makes the existing remote app work with it
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Is that correct based on your understanding or experimentation? Oh, I didn't try it. I thought that was correct
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- I mean, I think they did eventually release
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a new remote app as well,
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but I think before they even released the new remote app,
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what I read was that if you just updated the tvOS,
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your remote app would work with it
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even before they released the eventual remote app update.
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- Yeah, that was the idea.
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- Yeah, it's too late for all of us for the setup stuff.
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And there's still promises of like the real remote app
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that's gonna let you swipe around on your phone,
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like the touchpad, and use the accelerometers,
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and just basically be a full-fledged replacement
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for the new Apple TV remote rather than just,
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please, for the love of God, give us an onscreen keyboard
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that we can type on with our fingers
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instead of having to swipe back and forth
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on the number line or the letter line
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or whatever the hell we're calling that thing.
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- So interestingly, for whatever it's worth,
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we recently bought a PS4, meaning yesterday.
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So I got a chance to try, you know,
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what is a current, well, recent-ish effort
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at a regular onscreen keyboard
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by using Sony's little dumb thing?
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Before I wrote that, you could just plug in a USB keyboard.
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About halfway through the process, I realized that.
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But for the first half of the process,
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I was just using their little built-in thing.
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And just using the built-in keyboard
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with their controller and the D-pad
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and a couple of buttons on the shoulder buttons
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to do like, you know, done and delete and stuff.
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My God, it's so much better.
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Like, I was able to enter text so much faster
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in this regular on-screen keyboard using a regular D-pad
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that I had never used before than I still am today
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on the new Apple TV that I've been using now
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for like a month or something.
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- Let me give you a pro tip.
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Do not use the D-pad,
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I can't believe you suffer through
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like a barbarian using the D-pad to pick from the keyboard.
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You get one finger or thumb on the touch pad
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on the PS4 controller and one finger or thumb
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on the X button to select.
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- Wait, there's a touch pad?
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- Way, way faster.
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Oh my God, is it so much faster.
00:13:29
◼
►
- Wait, is that the big gray rectangle in the middle?
00:13:32
◼
►
- Yeah, it's the big thing in the middle of the controller.
00:13:34
◼
►
- I had no idea that was a touch pad.
00:13:36
◼
►
- Yeah, you'll find out in games that it is as well.
00:13:39
◼
►
won't TIFF might. It is so much easier because like it's not a great
00:13:42
◼
►
trackpad it's like the one on Casey's Dell like you know it's a crappy one but
00:13:46
◼
►
it's so much better than going down down right right up up down down because you
00:13:49
◼
►
could basically just go mousing around to a top tap tap tap it just feels so
00:13:53
◼
►
much more freeing than being constrained by like the grid like you're in a Tron
00:13:56
◼
►
game trying to play light cycles to get around the keyboard. Well honestly I mean
00:14:00
◼
►
I think what made it so much faster for me it rather than the way the the Apple
00:14:04
◼
►
TV one is done besides the fact that it had more than one row Apple but I think
00:14:08
◼
►
What made it so much faster is that you can kind of,
00:14:11
◼
►
when you have this digital input method of the D-pad,
00:14:14
◼
►
you can just know, all right, go over for, up to,
00:14:16
◼
►
like you can just do it.
00:14:17
◼
►
It's so precise that I was able to flip through things
00:14:21
◼
►
really quickly on that and way more accurately.
00:14:23
◼
►
I made, I think I made one mistake
00:14:25
◼
►
in the entire setup process.
00:14:27
◼
►
On Apple TV, I constantly hit the wrong letter, constantly.
00:14:31
◼
►
- Yeah, and the other good thing is they're sort of
00:14:33
◼
►
smart auto-suggestion stuff, kind of like the stuff
00:14:36
◼
►
from Android that Apple copied in iOS.
00:14:39
◼
►
Like above the keyboard, a series of words appears.
00:14:42
◼
►
- Or like when I'm sending messages
00:14:43
◼
►
to people related to Destiny,
00:14:45
◼
►
like I basically typed the first letter of a word
00:14:48
◼
►
and it knows which word I'm trying to write.
00:14:50
◼
►
And then I just select it from the pre-selected things
00:14:52
◼
►
and type the next first letter
00:14:54
◼
►
and then select it from the pre-selected setup.
00:14:55
◼
►
'Cause I don't send a lot of messages.
00:14:57
◼
►
I should just hook up a keyboard
00:14:58
◼
►
because it's so painful to try to do it with the pad.
00:15:00
◼
►
But the audio correction thing,
00:15:02
◼
►
when you don't say a lot through the interface,
00:15:05
◼
►
The seven words you do say are always the first suggestion.
00:15:07
◼
►
So it's pretty good,
00:15:08
◼
►
but you definitely do check out the touchpad.
00:15:10
◼
►
It's a little bit awkward to hold it.
00:15:11
◼
►
So you're like, wait, so I have my thumb on the touchpad
00:15:13
◼
►
and then my other thumb on the X button,
00:15:15
◼
►
just like the key, isn't that kind of weird?
00:15:16
◼
►
And how do I hit the shoulders?
00:15:17
◼
►
But trust me, it's really great.
00:15:19
◼
►
- Fair enough.
00:15:22
◼
►
And then you have a correction, I believe, John,
00:15:24
◼
►
from last episode.
00:15:26
◼
►
- Yeah, I made an offhand mark about Swift and Foundation
00:15:30
◼
►
and getting rid of the NS prefix,
00:15:31
◼
►
how currently you can, a lot of the APIs,
00:15:35
◼
►
you can use Swift strings and NS strings
00:15:38
◼
►
and they will convert between each other
00:15:39
◼
►
and I referred to that as like a free bridging thing
00:15:42
◼
►
or toll free bridging or zero cost bridging or whatever.
00:15:45
◼
►
It's not zero cost.
00:15:46
◼
►
Swift and foundation bridging is not toll free.
00:15:49
◼
►
I was thinking of the toll free bridging
00:15:51
◼
►
between core foundation and foundation.
00:15:52
◼
►
Too many freaking words that foundation.
00:15:54
◼
►
But anyway, just to clear that up.
00:15:56
◼
►
- Response this week by Backblaze.
00:15:58
◼
►
Go to backblaze.com/ATP
00:16:00
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for unlimited, un-throttled online backup
00:16:02
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for just five bucks a month.
00:16:04
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Backblaze, look, I love them, I use them.
00:16:06
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This is online backup.
00:16:08
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You need online backup.
00:16:09
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It is such a great insurance policy
00:16:12
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against all sorts of possible problems that could happen.
00:16:15
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Losses, fires, floods, theft, computer problems,
00:16:19
◼
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corruption, just human error.
00:16:22
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There's all sorts of problems that can affect you
00:16:23
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that you need backups.
00:16:25
◼
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And if you're gonna have backups,
00:16:27
◼
►
you should have more than one backup.
00:16:28
◼
►
You know, my preferred solution here is to have
00:16:31
◼
►
one or two local backups.
00:16:33
◼
►
Time Machine is a great example.
00:16:34
◼
►
Time Machine is very useful.
00:16:36
◼
►
So things like Super Duper clones.
00:16:38
◼
►
But there's always a need for something off site,
00:16:41
◼
►
something that is automatically sending your files
00:16:43
◼
►
somewhere else, somewhere secure,
00:16:45
◼
►
and that is what Backblaze offers.
00:16:47
◼
►
I have tried many other cloud backup providers.
00:16:49
◼
►
I've always come back to Backblaze
00:16:50
◼
►
as being the best I have seen by a long shot.
00:16:53
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They have over 150 petabytes of customer data backed up.
00:16:57
◼
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They've restored over 10 billion files to their customers.
00:17:00
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And you can access your data anywhere.
00:17:02
◼
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So I actually recently did this.
00:17:03
◼
►
Because this is online backup,
00:17:05
◼
►
they have an online copy of all your files,
00:17:07
◼
►
you can do things like retrieve a file
00:17:10
◼
►
when you're on vacation.
00:17:10
◼
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If you need to get to a file
00:17:12
◼
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that's only on your computer at home,
00:17:14
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you can use Backblaze to get it wherever you are
00:17:17
◼
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by using their mobile app for iOS or Android.
00:17:20
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It is a fantastic service.
00:17:21
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I use it, my wife uses it, my mom uses it.
00:17:24
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So many people use Backblaze, it is fantastic.
00:17:26
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I highly recommend it.
00:17:28
◼
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All this, you get online backup with all those features,
00:17:30
◼
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all the security, all the peace of mind
00:17:32
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►
that online backup can provide
00:17:33
◼
►
for just five bucks a month per computer.
00:17:36
◼
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And that no matter how many files you have,
00:17:37
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►
this is truly unlimited, five bucks a month.
00:17:40
◼
►
I have, I think, three terabytes from my computer.
00:17:43
◼
►
My wife has something like five terabytes from hers.
00:17:46
◼
►
It is incredible, all this unlimited storage,
00:17:49
◼
►
any directly connected drive is included in your backup
00:17:51
◼
►
for just five bucks a month.
00:17:53
◼
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And it's un-throttled upload speeds.
00:17:54
◼
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They'll take your files as fast as you will
00:17:55
◼
►
let them take them, it is great, love Backblaze.
00:17:58
◼
►
Go to backblaze.com/atp for the best online backup
00:18:01
◼
►
I've ever used.
00:18:03
◼
►
- Excellent.
00:18:04
◼
►
All right, so Apple released a thing this week,
00:18:09
◼
►
and everyone's upset about it.
00:18:13
◼
►
I kind of am too.
00:18:15
◼
►
I kind of am too, you guys.
00:18:16
◼
►
They have released the iPhone 6S Smart Battery Case Panamera.
00:18:21
◼
►
- This is unfair to the Panamera,
00:18:23
◼
►
'cause the Panamera has a fairly continuous curve
00:18:26
◼
►
over the back of the car.
00:18:27
◼
►
It's big and it's awkwardly shaped in profile,
00:18:30
◼
►
but it's not as if, this is closer to the bangle trunk
00:18:34
◼
►
on the 7 Series, remember that one?
00:18:36
◼
►
- Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.
00:18:38
◼
►
- This looks like they just shipped
00:18:39
◼
►
an engineering prototype.
00:18:41
◼
►
- Yeah, it kinda does.
00:18:42
◼
►
- They were assigned, hey, can you make this weekend,
00:18:45
◼
►
just make something that works?
00:18:47
◼
►
And somebody got the wrong memo
00:18:49
◼
►
and shipped it as a real product.
00:18:50
◼
►
- All right, so let's describe this
00:18:51
◼
►
for people listening to the show far disconnected in time.
00:18:53
◼
►
Imagine an iPhone 6S with Apple silicone case on it.
00:18:58
◼
►
- With 20% battery life,
00:18:59
◼
►
'cause it's three o'clock in the afternoon.
00:19:01
◼
►
- Give it a chin.
00:19:02
◼
►
So take the battery case
00:19:05
◼
►
and extend it downwards a little bit.
00:19:07
◼
►
And so like that it's got an extra chin hanging off.
00:19:10
◼
►
Don't worry about why for now.
00:19:11
◼
►
And then on the back of the phone,
00:19:14
◼
►
take like, I don't know, maybe seven, eight,
00:19:18
◼
►
now maybe 15 playing cards from a deck of cards,
00:19:21
◼
►
put it in there and then slather it with silicone again.
00:19:25
◼
►
So in other words, there's a lump on the back of this phone
00:19:28
◼
►
shaped like a rectangle, like a rounded rectangle
00:19:31
◼
►
that is smaller than the back of the phone.
00:19:33
◼
►
It is both narrower than the phone
00:19:35
◼
►
and significantly shorter than the phone.
00:19:37
◼
►
So there are edges of what look like
00:19:40
◼
►
just a plain old iPhone 6S in a silicone case with a chin
00:19:43
◼
►
poking out all around this thing.
00:19:46
◼
►
And it looks very strange because most other battery cases,
00:19:48
◼
►
most other third-party battery cases that I've seen,
00:19:51
◼
►
try to put like a sort of smooth hump
00:19:54
◼
►
on the back of the thing.
00:19:55
◼
►
Either they try to just make it to be really thin
00:19:57
◼
►
and make it look like, is that actually a battery case?
00:19:59
◼
►
Or is that just like a really thick case
00:20:00
◼
►
and you can't even tell?
00:20:02
◼
►
Or you can totally tell it looks like a bar of soap,
00:20:04
◼
►
but it's essentially a smooth curve
00:20:06
◼
►
over the entire back surface of the phone,
00:20:08
◼
►
top to bottom, left to right edge.
00:20:10
◼
►
And this is the first battery case I can think of,
00:20:12
◼
►
see, that does not do that,
00:20:14
◼
►
that does not try to make a big curve over the back,
00:20:16
◼
►
and also doesn't try to be so thin
00:20:17
◼
►
it looks like it's not a battery case,
00:20:19
◼
►
it looks like there's a rectangular thing
00:20:22
◼
►
hiding inside the back of your iPhone case.
00:20:27
◼
►
- So when you guys say it's bad,
00:20:28
◼
►
what you're saying is it's ugly.
00:20:30
◼
►
Is that what you're basically getting at?
00:20:31
◼
►
- Well, yeah, I mean--
00:20:33
◼
►
- If somebody would've told you ahead of time
00:20:35
◼
►
that hey, Apple's gonna make a battery case,
00:20:37
◼
►
what you would imagine in your head
00:20:40
◼
►
would be very different than this, you know?
00:20:42
◼
►
because we expect Apple stuff to be, at minimum, decent looking, often times at the expense
00:20:50
◼
►
of functionality these days, which is unfortunate, but obviously you expect thinness, you expect
00:20:55
◼
►
kind of smooth lines, nice curves, kind of minimal design aesthetic, and this is none
00:21:05
◼
►
of those things. It doesn't look anything like Apple designed it. If you would have
00:21:11
◼
►
seen this in a weird store window on the streets of Manhattan, you would have assumed it was
00:21:16
◼
►
a knockoff. Like, it does not look like an Apple product. And in the world of battery
00:21:22
◼
►
cases, there is no option in a battery case that doesn't look like crap in some way.
00:21:28
◼
►
They all look like crap in some way.
00:21:30
◼
►
What about the really thin ones? The ones that are like, you can't even tell they're
00:21:33
◼
►
a battery case practically. It just looks like it might just be a thick regular case.
00:21:37
◼
►
I think those look pretty good, with one exception that I'll get to in a second when I tell
00:21:41
◼
►
I'm not gonna tell you about what I think
00:21:41
◼
►
of the aesthetics of this thing,
00:21:42
◼
►
but I think you can't say that they're all ugly.
00:21:46
◼
►
Like, a lot of them do make the phone bigger,
00:21:48
◼
►
but the really thin ones that just give you
00:21:50
◼
►
like a little bit more battery,
00:21:51
◼
►
I think some of them look pretty good.
00:21:52
◼
►
- Yeah, I would agree with that.
00:21:53
◼
►
- Right, and by the way,
00:21:54
◼
►
those usually give more battery than this.
00:21:55
◼
►
But anyway, there are some that look okay on Amazon pages.
00:21:58
◼
►
Like, there's an Anker Ultra Slim that,
00:22:01
◼
►
like, if you look in the Wall Street Journal
00:22:02
◼
►
by a review of this by Joanna Stern,
00:22:04
◼
►
there was a picture of three of them next to each other.
00:22:06
◼
►
There was the Apple one, there was one from Anker,
00:22:08
◼
►
and I think there was a Mophie,
00:22:09
◼
►
there was some other one in the middle,
00:22:11
◼
►
and you would think that in the review
00:22:15
◼
►
of the Apple battery case, in a comparison photo
00:22:19
◼
►
next to these way cheaper, way higher capacity cases
00:22:23
◼
►
from these brands that are not known for great design,
00:22:26
◼
►
especially like Anker, known for being very utilitarian
00:22:29
◼
►
and being good value, but not exactly
00:22:31
◼
►
for stunningly good design, you would assume
00:22:35
◼
►
that the Apple option in that photo
00:22:37
◼
►
should obviously be the best looking one.
00:22:39
◼
►
and you'd probably assume that it would be the most expensive and you'd be right,
00:22:43
◼
►
you'd probably assume it wouldn't have the best capacity and you'd be right, but
00:22:47
◼
►
to see it not even be the best looking one while also being the most expensive and having
00:22:52
◼
►
the worst capacity I think is disappointing to say the least. And that's not to say
00:22:57
◼
►
that you can't, that isn't to say that they could have done a massively better job
00:23:03
◼
►
as a battery case with their goals in mind. And we'll talk about their goals in a minute
00:23:08
◼
►
because we've gotten a little bit more information
00:23:10
◼
►
since it was released, but it sure does seem like,
00:23:14
◼
►
they, I don't know, they were given a hard problem,
00:23:17
◼
►
but it seems like a very disappointing output
00:23:21
◼
►
to that hard problem, and all of this is underscored
00:23:23
◼
►
by my base level frustration of,
00:23:27
◼
►
this shouldn't even be necessary for most people.
00:23:29
◼
►
Like, 'cause the capacity that it has,
00:23:32
◼
►
I think it's roughly 1800 milliamp hours,
00:23:36
◼
►
So by most of the reviews, it can charge the phone
00:23:39
◼
►
about 80% of the way maybe.
00:23:42
◼
►
So it isn't the full additional charge,
00:23:45
◼
►
but it's like you can drain the phone down most of the way
00:23:47
◼
►
and then you can charge it back up most of the way back up.
00:23:50
◼
►
Honestly, when I need an extra battery,
00:23:53
◼
►
I don't usually need more than that.
00:23:56
◼
►
Like that is a good amount for me.
00:23:58
◼
►
But people who buy battery cases today,
00:24:00
◼
►
that's like the smallest you can get
00:24:02
◼
►
and there's a lot of much bigger options
00:24:03
◼
►
where you can get like two to four times
00:24:06
◼
►
the battery capacity in other battery cases.
00:24:08
◼
►
So it depends on how you're using the phone.
00:24:09
◼
►
If you're doing like GPS all day as part of your job,
00:24:12
◼
►
then I could see you needing a lot more.
00:24:14
◼
►
But honestly, in my use, I complain a lot about the iPhone
00:24:18
◼
►
having not quite enough battery life and being too thin
00:24:20
◼
►
and them seemingly prioritizing
00:24:22
◼
►
thickness and lightness over usable batteries.
00:24:25
◼
►
But the difference between what the 6 and the 6S has,
00:24:29
◼
►
have, has, the difference between what they have
00:24:32
◼
►
and what I need is not that big.
00:24:34
◼
►
I would be very, very happy if they took the battery
00:24:37
◼
►
of the 6S and just made it like 25 or 30% bigger,
00:24:41
◼
►
at most 50% bigger.
00:24:43
◼
►
You know, like that's all it needs.
00:24:44
◼
►
It doesn't need to be three times as large, you know?
00:24:48
◼
►
It needs almost what it has, but just add like,
00:24:51
◼
►
you know, 25 to 50% more.
00:24:53
◼
►
That's what it really needs for me.
00:24:55
◼
►
And from people I've seen in real life,
00:24:57
◼
►
people I've talked to, it seems like that would cover
00:24:59
◼
►
way more people's needs than getting anything giant
00:25:04
◼
►
or the status quo.
00:25:06
◼
►
Now obviously Apple has way more data than I do,
00:25:08
◼
►
although honestly I question the metrics they collect
00:25:12
◼
►
and how well that covers the real world usage.
00:25:16
◼
►
But anyway, that's a different discussion.
00:25:19
◼
►
I'm just very sad that Apple's response to the 6S
00:25:23
◼
►
having clearly, having poor enough battery life
00:25:26
◼
►
for enough people that this was necessary
00:25:29
◼
►
to make and release, that they take that indicator
00:25:33
◼
►
and they say, well, the right answer here is that.
00:25:37
◼
►
Like that case is the right answer to this problem.
00:25:39
◼
►
Rather than, if you just put in a battery
00:25:42
◼
►
that's like 25% bigger to begin with,
00:25:45
◼
►
then the additional mass and complexity
00:25:49
◼
►
and efficiency of using that extra battery power
00:25:52
◼
►
is a tiny fraction of the bulk and the mass
00:25:56
◼
►
and the complexity of this case.
00:25:58
◼
►
Because you don't have an extra casing around it,
00:26:00
◼
►
you don't have extra framing for rigidity
00:26:02
◼
►
in the middle section,
00:26:03
◼
►
you don't have the whatever the heck
00:26:04
◼
►
that passive antenna thing is they're talking about,
00:26:06
◼
►
I have no idea what that is,
00:26:07
◼
►
but you don't have that,
00:26:08
◼
►
you don't have the charging circuitry,
00:26:09
◼
►
the discharging circuitry,
00:26:11
◼
►
the reporting back to the phone of your battery level
00:26:13
◼
►
and then having two different battery bars
00:26:14
◼
►
and notification center to worry about.
00:26:16
◼
►
It's so much simpler if you just make the battery
00:26:19
◼
►
25% bigger in the phone,
00:26:21
◼
►
and you cover so much more with that kind of approach.
00:26:24
◼
►
And I know they don't do that
00:26:25
◼
►
because they want it to be thinner and lighter,
00:26:27
◼
►
and they think they're making the right decision,
00:26:29
◼
►
and maybe they are, but it's frustrating
00:26:31
◼
►
to be on my side of it when you think they're not,
00:26:33
◼
►
and this is their solution to that.
00:26:35
◼
►
- Yeah, I completely agree.
00:26:36
◼
►
You know, I was thinking about it,
00:26:38
◼
►
and do you remember that sort of cheesy,
00:26:40
◼
►
but also sort of entertaining video they showed
00:26:42
◼
►
before WWDC 2013 with like the dancing blobs of ink,
00:26:47
◼
►
and it was a Thousand Nose video?
00:26:50
◼
►
Well, I went and found a copy on YouTube,
00:26:53
◼
►
which we'll link in the show notes.
00:26:54
◼
►
That video starts as follows.
00:26:56
◼
►
"If everyone is busy making everything,
00:26:59
◼
►
"how can anyone perfect anything?"
00:27:01
◼
►
I feel like I have nothing more to say now.
00:27:05
◼
►
- That's a mouthful.
00:27:06
◼
►
- Well, it is a mouthful, but I mean,
00:27:08
◼
►
we've been talking a lot about how spread thin
00:27:12
◼
►
we assume Apple to be these days.
00:27:14
◼
►
Now, I think we're generally referring to software
00:27:16
◼
►
when we're talking about that, but there's a lot more,
00:27:19
◼
►
there's a lot more products in Apple's portfolio today
00:27:22
◼
►
than there were in 2013.
00:27:23
◼
►
And I feel like this is just an example
00:27:27
◼
►
of somebody just phoning it in.
00:27:29
◼
►
And maybe I'm missing the boat,
00:27:30
◼
►
but jeez, this thing looks just ugly.
00:27:33
◼
►
It's just, it's not smooth.
00:27:36
◼
►
I mean, it's smooth, but it's not.
00:27:38
◼
►
It's bulbous and it's just, ugh.
00:27:40
◼
►
- I mean, honestly, if I were to get a battery case,
00:27:44
◼
►
I would consider this one simply because
00:27:46
◼
►
I like the feel of Apple's first-party cases.
00:27:49
◼
►
Especially the silicone ones,
00:27:50
◼
►
I like their feel over the buttons,
00:27:52
◼
►
the sleep/wake and the volume buttons and everything,
00:27:54
◼
►
they do feel good over the buttons,
00:27:56
◼
►
and they do fit well,
00:27:57
◼
►
and all the other ones look pretty good.
00:28:00
◼
►
This one, not so much,
00:28:01
◼
►
but I appreciate the value of Apple's cases
00:28:04
◼
►
most of the time,
00:28:05
◼
►
but for me, honestly,
00:28:08
◼
►
especially when you look at cost,
00:28:11
◼
►
the first time you buy one of these battery cases,
00:28:13
◼
►
you're like, oh yeah, this'll make sense.
00:28:14
◼
►
I'll use it every other day, and it'll be great,
00:28:17
◼
►
and then as soon as the next iPhone comes out,
00:28:19
◼
►
and it's a different size, and you can't use it anymore,
00:28:21
◼
►
like "Why did I buy that $100 battery case that now is worthless to me?" And after
00:28:27
◼
►
that you typically just buy like the little USB blocks or bricks or you know other ways
00:28:31
◼
►
to boost your battery after that because you realize like "Oh that was kind of you know
00:28:35
◼
►
not a great use of my money." So now I've moved on to these little battery bricks and
00:28:41
◼
►
thin little rectangles and stuff that have battery power in them. I'll link to my favorite
00:28:45
◼
►
one in the show, it's a $25 and it has more power than the Apple thing. Buy I think twice
00:28:50
◼
►
as much and fits in your pocket.
00:28:52
◼
►
Anyway, I don't know, I feel like these things
00:28:55
◼
►
are just admitting failure, and I also feel like
00:28:57
◼
►
if you look at them cynically, it's very easy
00:29:00
◼
►
to look at this and say, you know, I think they just
00:29:02
◼
►
made this to get $100 more out of people
00:29:06
◼
►
when they buy phones that were previously going
00:29:08
◼
►
to third-party makers like Mophie and Anchor
00:29:11
◼
►
and everyone else, it seems like Apple just wants
00:29:14
◼
►
to capture more of the iPhone accessory revenue
00:29:16
◼
►
for themselves.
00:29:18
◼
►
So John, what do you think of this?
00:29:19
◼
►
Well, you guys are too new to the Apple world, I think, to get the obvious,
00:29:24
◼
►
"Let's go back and say something, find something that Apple said in the past that makes them look foolish in the present."
00:29:29
◼
►
You were close when you were going back to the, you know, "Let's not make too many things,"
00:29:33
◼
►
but you have to go back farther to the, what I call the Flower iMac, not the Flower Power one,
00:29:40
◼
►
but the one that was on the cover of Time Magazine that had basically like a, looks like a little hemisphere with like a metal arm poking out of it and the screen floating on the metal arm.
00:29:47
◼
►
You guys remember that one? Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm
00:29:49
◼
►
all right, so at the introduction to that Steve Jobs was like we wanted to make a flat panel iMac because
00:29:54
◼
►
Flat panels look cool and they're the future and we were trying to come up with designs
00:29:59
◼
►
I don't know if this was in the keynote or an interview or whatever, but the story was basically
00:30:02
◼
►
We thought about taking a flat screen and shoving the guts of the iMac onto the back of it
00:30:09
◼
►
That just seemed ridiculous because it was like this big lumping thing
00:30:14
◼
►
Jammed onto the back of the screen and it wasn't elegant and so look at the solution we came up with
00:30:17
◼
►
This was I think maybe the first let every element be true to itself thing like the base is the base it hugs the ground
00:30:24
◼
►
It's low to the ground. It's a semicircle. It's like boom there. You're the base
00:30:31
◼
►
We like flat screens because they're flat they're thin and light so let the screen
00:30:35
◼
►
Be true to itself be light and airy like floating in the air you can reposition it cuz it's on this cool arm that arm
00:30:40
◼
►
Totally was cool. I love that arm
00:30:42
◼
►
And it's super thin because I mean not by today's standards like if you look at the the screen on a MacBook Pro
00:30:49
◼
►
They didn't even know what thin was but anyway
00:30:50
◼
►
This is a long time ago look how thin it is and it doesn't have all the guts strapped to the back of it of
00:30:54
◼
►
Course today
00:30:54
◼
►
You know when they eventually did like the iMac g5 and the big the white flat screen thing eventually
00:30:59
◼
►
They did shove the innards of the iMac to the back of the screen when they got it to the point where they felt
00:31:02
◼
►
Like they could shove the innards on the back and not have it look like like a big you know hunchback type thing
00:31:07
◼
►
Right so here. We are with the battery case
00:31:10
◼
►
And unfortunately, there's not really any place for the battery to go.
00:31:14
◼
►
You can't put it on the front, you can't really put it on the sides or the bottom, so it's
00:31:17
◼
►
kind of got to go on the back.
00:31:20
◼
►
But when I first saw this, what I tweeted about it was the sort of Johnny Ives, Steve
00:31:25
◼
►
Jobs explanation for this still kind of fits with the "let each element be true to itself,"
00:31:30
◼
►
So the phone is one element and the battery is the other.
00:31:31
◼
►
And it's like, let's not hide the fact that we're jamming a battery on the back of a phone.
00:31:36
◼
►
So the phone is this skinny little thing and we're going to put a battery on the back of
00:31:41
◼
►
it and the battery is this other thing, but it's a separate thing.
00:31:44
◼
►
So rather than trying to blend them together and make you think these are all one piece,
00:31:49
◼
►
it's either you can decide it's like in script writing parlance, hang a lantern on it or
00:31:52
◼
►
in the Johnny Ive Steve Jobs parlance, let each element be true to itself.
00:31:56
◼
►
So this lithium ion battery pack on the back of this phone is being true to itself by going,
00:32:02
◼
►
here I am, I'm a battery, I'm sticking out here, say hi to me. And, you know, like aesthetically,
00:32:09
◼
►
because that's what it comes down to, aesthetically speaking, you can decide that that looks ugly,
00:32:14
◼
►
maybe because it looks different than the other things, maybe because it's just like,
00:32:16
◼
►
I don't want you to declare yourself to be, I don't want you to be true to yourself, battery,
00:32:20
◼
►
I want you to minimize yourself, I don't want to know you're there, I want to pretend instead
00:32:24
◼
►
that I have Marco's phone that he talked about that is actually just an iPhone 6s that has
00:32:28
◼
►
a little more battery power. And by calling attention to itself in this way that some
00:32:32
◼
►
people find ugly, it's like, oh, it's really rubbing it in that I have this extra thing
00:32:36
◼
►
shoved to the back of my phone that used to be nice and elegant, and now it's like a little
00:32:40
◼
►
hunchback thing. That's kind of gross. So I could see arguments on both sides of that,
00:32:45
◼
►
but my opinion of this case started to fall two things. One, when I saw that it had a
00:32:51
◼
►
chin, because I thought surely the company that can make this without a chin is Apple.
00:32:55
◼
►
the chin is really, I find that substantially alters the feel of the phone.
00:33:01
◼
►
More than making it thicker, once you start making it longer and wider, I don't like the
00:33:06
◼
►
The chins come with compromises, as people have found out, if you buy a Beats headphone,
00:33:10
◼
►
you cannot plug it into the chin of this thing without an adapter, because the little headphone
00:33:13
◼
►
jack is just too deep to go through the little adaptory things.
00:33:16
◼
►
It's not just Beats, John, there are other headphones.
00:33:18
◼
►
I know, but I'm just saying, I'm pulling out Beats because it's like Apple makes those,
00:33:22
◼
►
So it's the worst.
00:33:23
◼
►
It's not like, "Oh, third-party headphones."
00:33:24
◼
►
essentially first party headphones also don't fit.
00:33:26
◼
►
The EarPods fit, right, but not headphones
00:33:29
◼
►
with longer jacks on.
00:33:30
◼
►
They had to make the little tunnel for the sound come out,
00:33:32
◼
►
which I'm glad they did that, and the little holes
00:33:35
◼
►
and tunnels they have to make to get the stuff
00:33:37
◼
►
that's on the bottom of the phone to come out.
00:33:38
◼
►
But I think there are third party battery cases
00:33:41
◼
►
that don't have chins.
00:33:42
◼
►
Am I wrong in thinking that?
00:33:44
◼
►
I feel like I've seen them.
00:33:45
◼
►
- I was able to find one.
00:33:47
◼
►
I looked for battery cases a few months ago,
00:33:50
◼
►
and there was one, let me look it up.
00:33:52
◼
►
I forget the name, but I found it yesterday.
00:33:53
◼
►
But anyway, I feel like Apple,
00:33:57
◼
►
not having a chance at something Apple will do,
00:33:58
◼
►
but the real kicker to me was all that story
00:34:01
◼
►
I just gave you about the backpack being true to itself
00:34:04
◼
►
and having the extra capacity or whatever,
00:34:06
◼
►
when I found out that Apple's battery case
00:34:08
◼
►
actually has less battery capacity
00:34:10
◼
►
than the ones that try to hide the fact
00:34:12
◼
►
that there's a battery, that really killed it
00:34:13
◼
►
'cause it's like if you're gonna have a big backpack
00:34:15
◼
►
and be true to itself and say, "Here I am, I'm a battery,"
00:34:19
◼
►
at least make that battery really high capacity, right?
00:34:22
◼
►
at least say, yeah, it's a little bit chunkier
00:34:24
◼
►
looking than other batteries,
00:34:25
◼
►
but boy, it's got a lot of capacity, but it doesn't.
00:34:27
◼
►
It has less capacity than those other ones.
00:34:29
◼
►
It looks like it should have more
00:34:31
◼
►
because it calls attention to itself.
00:34:32
◼
►
It is prominent, and yet the actual battery
00:34:34
◼
►
in there is smaller.
00:34:36
◼
►
And so then I feel like, you know,
00:34:37
◼
►
the battery case that I would have liked,
00:34:40
◼
►
not that I'm in the market for battery case,
00:34:42
◼
►
but the one that I would have liked
00:34:43
◼
►
is either one that was just,
00:34:44
◼
►
had massive capacity and was really high quality,
00:34:47
◼
►
or the one that had no chin
00:34:49
◼
►
and made the battery so thin
00:34:51
◼
►
you don't even know that it's there. They gave you only a little bit more, maybe more
00:34:55
◼
►
than Marco's 25, maybe 30%, maybe 40% battery, and that Apple can make a super thin one that's
00:35:01
◼
►
like, you don't even know it's a battery case. It does look like a little bit case, but it
00:35:04
◼
►
gives your phone a boost, right? Both of those products I think would be nicer products as
00:35:09
◼
►
far as I'm concerned. Now I don't think the existence of a battery case means that either
00:35:16
◼
►
Apple is admitting the success has bad battery life, and I actually don't think the success
00:35:19
◼
►
has bad battery life. It really depends on for you individually. If it doesn't have enough
00:35:23
◼
►
battery life for the way you use the phone, then yes, you need to have a battery pack.
00:35:26
◼
►
But I think that the battery life on the 6S is reasonable, but as we've discussed many,
00:35:30
◼
►
many times, I also think there is a place in Apple's product line for a phone that is
00:35:35
◼
►
bigger and gets more battery life that is not the 6S Plus. Because that's forcing you
00:35:40
◼
►
to say, "Hey, if you want more battery life, Apple makes a phone for you. Also, it's the
00:35:43
◼
►
size of a freaking tablet." And I feel like there's a place in their line to say, "And
00:35:48
◼
►
And I feel like the 6s is that place actually.
00:35:50
◼
►
Like if they come up with a 4-inch phone, that one should be super thin and small.
00:35:54
◼
►
And then the 6s should be a little bit thicker to have more battery, and then the 6 Plus
00:35:57
◼
►
should be the way it is.
00:35:58
◼
►
Or maybe add something between it.
00:36:00
◼
►
I think there's a place somewhere in the lineup for a thick phone that is not gargantuan.
00:36:04
◼
►
But they don't want to make the phone, they want to keep making these skinny things.
00:36:07
◼
►
And if you need more capacity from it, you put this case on.
00:36:09
◼
►
And I see tons of people with battery cases in real life on all sizes of iPhones.
00:36:16
◼
►
the 5s size, the 4s, the 6, the 6s.
00:36:19
◼
►
Lots and lots of battery cases,
00:36:20
◼
►
because those people know, like,
00:36:21
◼
►
I'm gonna use my phone all day
00:36:22
◼
►
and I can't use it without the battery case.
00:36:24
◼
►
The battery case essentially becomes part of the phone.
00:36:27
◼
►
I also don't fault Apple for making a case.
00:36:29
◼
►
I don't think they're spreading themselves too thin.
00:36:30
◼
►
Marco was like,
00:36:31
◼
►
"Oh, they just wanna get 100 more dollars out of people?"
00:36:32
◼
►
Of course they do.
00:36:33
◼
►
Why would they not?
00:36:34
◼
►
Like, are they somehow morally obligated
00:36:35
◼
►
not to make an accessory?
00:36:37
◼
►
They should make an access--
00:36:38
◼
►
It's weird to have a manufacturer not make accessories.
00:36:41
◼
►
It's like Honda not making bras for your car.
00:36:43
◼
►
It's not like they want you to put a bra on your car,
00:36:45
◼
►
but they're sure as hell gonna make one
00:36:46
◼
►
because you want a broad like,
00:36:47
◼
►
Honda's like, we'll sell you one, here you go.
00:36:49
◼
►
Like maybe that's a bad example of a car browse,
00:36:51
◼
►
but I'm just going back to neutral days.
00:36:53
◼
►
But yeah, no, Apple should totally sell every accessory.
00:36:56
◼
►
Why allow only third parties to make an accessory
00:36:59
◼
►
that a huge number of people buy?
00:37:00
◼
►
What was the status on something like Apple,
00:37:02
◼
►
according to Apple's own statistics or something like?
00:37:04
◼
►
- 70 something percent.
00:37:05
◼
►
- 78% of people put a case on their iPhones.
00:37:08
◼
►
Of course Apple should sell cases.
00:37:10
◼
►
And if some of those people want better,
00:37:11
◼
►
of course they should make them.
00:37:12
◼
►
In fact, Apple should make three battery cases.
00:37:14
◼
►
Like I have no objection to them doing that.
00:37:16
◼
►
I think they absolutely should,
00:37:18
◼
►
if only like to raise the game
00:37:19
◼
►
of the third party manufacturer.
00:37:21
◼
►
So while this is a little bit of a disappointing product,
00:37:26
◼
►
there are some explanations for it
00:37:27
◼
►
that we'll get to in a second,
00:37:29
◼
►
but I think they should totally make a battery case.
00:37:32
◼
►
I can come up with a plausible explanation
00:37:35
◼
►
for the aesthetics of this case,
00:37:36
◼
►
even if you think it's ugly, you think it's ugly,
00:37:38
◼
►
like, you know, your opinion is your opinion, right?
00:37:40
◼
►
I mean, we all see people with cases
00:37:42
◼
►
that we think are ugly, but somebody loves them.
00:37:44
◼
►
And if anything, I wish Apple would just make
00:37:46
◼
►
more battery cases.
00:37:47
◼
►
So I think this is a good first run at a battery case.
00:37:50
◼
►
And at the very least, it's got us talking about it
00:37:52
◼
►
and it's interesting.
00:37:52
◼
►
It is not boring.
00:37:53
◼
►
Let's give it that.
00:37:55
◼
►
- Yeah, by the way, the case I was thinking of,
00:37:56
◼
►
and I couldn't remember it before, was the Sola Memo.
00:37:59
◼
►
I don't think I'm pronouncing that right.
00:38:01
◼
►
There's a couple of them.
00:38:02
◼
►
There's a new version and an old version on Amazon
00:38:04
◼
►
for like 50 bucks each.
00:38:06
◼
►
And the old version, this is the only battery case
00:38:08
◼
►
I've ever seen that has no chin.
00:38:10
◼
►
And it basically has an internal lightning port
00:38:12
◼
►
that plugs in kind of up the bottom of the phone
00:38:15
◼
►
and like moves the real connector down slightly
00:38:18
◼
►
and it uses its additional thickness
00:38:20
◼
►
of being a battery case to give you a lightning port
00:38:22
◼
►
that's just like down lower than like just below
00:38:25
◼
►
the real one.
00:38:26
◼
►
- Does it really give you a lightning port?
00:38:27
◼
►
'Cause that was, I thought that was one of the claims
00:38:29
◼
►
of this, like it wasn't this from,
00:38:30
◼
►
it was in the Mashable Arab I think.
00:38:31
◼
►
The first battery case to have a fully featured
00:38:34
◼
►
lightning connector.
00:38:34
◼
►
That was a claim I read somewhere
00:38:36
◼
►
about the Apple lightning case.
00:38:37
◼
►
- Well yeah, but the keywords there are fully featured
00:38:40
◼
►
because you're both right.
00:38:41
◼
►
this does take a lightning connector,
00:38:44
◼
►
but it doesn't put the battery status
00:38:47
◼
►
and notification center and stuff like that
00:38:48
◼
►
that only the first party case can do.
00:38:50
◼
►
- Well, is that a fully featured lightning connector?
00:38:52
◼
►
That's a feature that, granted, Apple can only do
00:38:53
◼
►
'cause they're the only ones who can change the OS,
00:38:55
◼
►
but is the lightning connector fully featured on that one?
00:38:57
◼
►
Anyway, like--
00:38:58
◼
►
- The first version of this one had a big problem
00:39:01
◼
►
according to the reviews of blocking cell signals
00:39:03
◼
►
'cause it had a metal frame,
00:39:04
◼
►
and everyone said that it blocked your signal.
00:39:07
◼
►
And this updated version now says,
00:39:09
◼
►
it's updated now, new design,
00:39:10
◼
►
that absolutely will not interfere with your signal.
00:39:12
◼
►
So I just ordered one, I'm gonna try it.
00:39:14
◼
►
I'll report back and see if that actually is true
00:39:17
◼
►
because it's extremely thin relative to most battery cases
00:39:21
◼
►
and it has no chin.
00:39:23
◼
►
So the bulk of it is significantly reduced.
00:39:26
◼
►
And if this is actually good and works
00:39:29
◼
►
and doesn't block the cell signal meaningfully,
00:39:31
◼
►
then I would say it's kind of embarrassing for Apple,
00:39:34
◼
►
but I'm guessing there's gonna be some problem with this.
00:39:38
◼
►
There has to be some reason why no one else
00:39:40
◼
►
that makes cases like this.
00:39:41
◼
►
- Is there any other color besides white?
00:39:43
◼
►
I'm not trying to be funny, I'm really asking.
00:39:45
◼
►
- It is a black one.
00:39:45
◼
►
- No, but the black one's the old version.
00:39:47
◼
►
- Oh, I thought you meant the apple one, yeah.
00:39:49
◼
►
No, the apple one only comes in black and white,
00:39:50
◼
►
which is kind of boring too.
00:39:52
◼
►
- Yeah, that's also true, but yeah, we'll see.
00:39:54
◼
►
We'll see if they actually sell.
00:39:54
◼
►
I mean, I'm sure they're gonna sell it.
00:39:56
◼
►
Also, one thing to consider that that is even more cynical
00:39:59
◼
►
than they just made it to get accessory money.
00:40:01
◼
►
- But why is that, like, you always say that,
00:40:03
◼
►
like, they just made it, like, oh, do they,
00:40:06
◼
►
that's what they make products for.
00:40:07
◼
►
Like, I mean, they wanna make great products, blah, blah,
00:40:09
◼
►
but they just made it to make money?
00:40:11
◼
►
Like how can you say that is a bad thing about like--
00:40:13
◼
►
- I guess that's true.
00:40:14
◼
►
- Like, you know what I mean?
00:40:16
◼
►
There's one, I'm trying to think of,
00:40:17
◼
►
is there a situation where you could say
00:40:18
◼
►
this was just a money,
00:40:19
◼
►
I guess you could say it's a money grab
00:40:21
◼
►
if they put out a product that they put minimal effort into
00:40:26
◼
►
just to get the money based on their name.
00:40:28
◼
►
And I don't think that's this
00:40:30
◼
►
because you may think it's ugly
00:40:32
◼
►
and may disagree with the compromises they made,
00:40:34
◼
►
but it looks like it's up to the standards
00:40:36
◼
►
of all Apple first party cases in terms of fit and finish
00:40:39
◼
►
and the thoughtfulness of the features.
00:40:41
◼
►
Again, whether you disagree with them or not,
00:40:43
◼
►
like it doesn't look like a piece of junk.
00:40:44
◼
►
So I think that's, maybe that's how you could call it
00:40:46
◼
►
a money grab.
00:40:46
◼
►
If they put out something that just looked like
00:40:49
◼
►
a piece of junk, that it didn't feel good,
00:40:50
◼
►
it didn't look good, it didn't fit right,
00:40:52
◼
►
maybe the only thing I can think of there
00:40:54
◼
►
is like the iPad One case you could say that about.
00:40:56
◼
►
Like they just put this out to make money
00:40:58
◼
►
because that looked like a piece of crap
00:41:00
◼
►
and it looked like it was slapped together.
00:41:01
◼
►
Because we might as well say they just made a small laptop
00:41:03
◼
►
as a money grab for people who want a smaller laptop.
00:41:05
◼
►
Well, yeah, it's for people who want a smaller laptop.
00:41:09
◼
►
That's all fair, but okay, so carry this on
00:41:11
◼
►
to its logical conclusion then, and then we have a problem,
00:41:13
◼
►
because now, they now have an incentive
00:41:17
◼
►
to not improve the iPhone battery life,
00:41:20
◼
►
to keep it to being almost sufficient for enough people,
00:41:25
◼
►
but just painful enough that a large portion
00:41:28
◼
►
of their customers will wanna buy
00:41:30
◼
►
this additional $100 part.
00:41:31
◼
►
It's just like the 16 gig problem.
00:41:33
◼
►
- Yeah, I don't know if a large portion of people
00:41:34
◼
►
are gonna buy, like-- - No, I'm saying,
00:41:36
◼
►
but now they have the incentive to keep the status quo.
00:41:38
◼
►
incentive to do what? They're already doing that. I think the 6 Plus has given them a
00:41:45
◼
►
little bit of cover on this to say, "You always said you wanted a phone with more battery
00:41:49
◼
►
capacity, well we made one." And you're like, "Yeah, but it's so big. Oh, you want everything
00:41:53
◼
►
now it has to be exactly the size you want with exactly the battery capacity. Our testing
00:41:57
◼
►
shows the blah, blah, blah." I mean, as someone who uses a 6 all day and the battery, I mean,
00:42:02
◼
►
I don't use it all day, but anyway, I use it every day and the battery is totally fine
00:42:06
◼
►
for me. But I also know people who can't get through half a day with their 6, and we all
00:42:10
◼
►
have the same phone, it just depends on your usage pattern. So there's such a variability
00:42:13
◼
►
in usage pattern, it's very difficult to say whether they've over or undersized anything.
00:42:19
◼
►
If this battery case gives them cover, I don't think so, because battery cases existed already.
00:42:22
◼
►
So whatever cover that you think they're getting by having a battery case, they already had
00:42:26
◼
►
that cover, because there's this huge market for battery cases that I see everywhere for
00:42:29
◼
►
the people who torture their phones, who need to have a really long, you know, so I don't
00:42:34
◼
►
think they needed to make this case to get that cover.
00:42:36
◼
►
- No, I think that's fair, but I think this
00:42:38
◼
►
dramatically increases that cut for them,
00:42:40
◼
►
because now they can point to this and they can say,
00:42:42
◼
►
well, you know what, if you don't like the battery life
00:42:44
◼
►
of your six or whatever the new mainline iPhone is,
00:42:48
◼
►
if you don't like the battery life of that,
00:42:50
◼
►
it isn't our problem to fix.
00:42:51
◼
►
We offer you these battery cases for an extra $99.
00:42:54
◼
►
- It was better when they could say,
00:42:56
◼
►
if we don't like the battery life, it isn't our problem,
00:42:58
◼
►
buy one of these less than $99 battery cases
00:43:00
◼
►
that offer more capacity.
00:43:01
◼
►
If anything, this weakens their story,
00:43:03
◼
►
because now they're gonna always be pitching theirs first,
00:43:04
◼
►
which has lower capacity and a higher price.
00:43:07
◼
►
- The problem here is that this at least,
00:43:09
◼
►
by having a first party option that they believe is good,
00:43:12
◼
►
this gives them permission internally
00:43:15
◼
►
when making these design decisions
00:43:17
◼
►
to no longer really think about giving more battery life
00:43:20
◼
►
to people built into the phone.
00:43:21
◼
►
- I think they'll still think about it
00:43:23
◼
►
exactly the same amount.
00:43:24
◼
►
I mean, as I've said from many years back
00:43:26
◼
►
to the old Hypercritic episode about naked robotic core,
00:43:28
◼
►
this seems to be the strategy
00:43:30
◼
►
they've been pursuing for a long time.
00:43:31
◼
►
A lot of people tweeted, say,
00:43:32
◼
►
"Oh, this is the naked robotic core theory.
00:43:33
◼
►
"It's finally come."
00:43:34
◼
►
It's been here the whole time.
00:43:35
◼
►
Like, you know, this is, it's not a new thing.
00:43:39
◼
►
The thing that they've been doing is make it as thin and light as possible as you can
00:43:43
◼
►
to be useful to, you know, to somebody, to a lot of people, and then allow people to
00:43:49
◼
►
And as Mark was pointing out many times, then you've got to have seven extra layers of,
00:43:52
◼
►
you know, essentially filler between there, because you've got to have walls between your
00:43:56
◼
►
batteries and the batteries have to be inside cases, and there's going to be a case on the
00:43:58
◼
►
outside that's inefficient.
00:44:00
◼
►
So they're going to keep dancing around in that line.
00:44:03
◼
►
I really think that none of us would be discussing this if they made a thicker iPhone 6.
00:44:09
◼
►
Maybe even also keep the thin one, make a thicker one for all day use or on the go things.
00:44:14
◼
►
It's all about diversifying the product line.
00:44:15
◼
►
They really have diversified it a lot.
00:44:16
◼
►
They just can keep going.
00:44:18
◼
►
Maybe they consider this a diversification, but I think this is more of an accessor-ication?
00:44:23
◼
►
Accessorizing-ication.
00:44:25
◼
►
Anyway, they're adding accessories, which is one way to go to make your line more diverse,
00:44:29
◼
►
but it is no substitute for actually making your line more diverse.
00:44:33
◼
►
And it isn't that ridiculous to think of them making another iPhone model that still is
00:44:40
◼
►
the same size as their mid-range one that just has a bigger battery.
00:44:43
◼
►
Because this is their most important product, they make more of them than anything else,
00:44:47
◼
►
and they have all sorts of such customizations in their other product lines.
00:44:50
◼
►
So it wouldn't be that ridiculous of a concept.
00:44:53
◼
►
Yeah, if the 4-inch phone comes back, then you'll see it's ripe for that.
00:44:56
◼
►
If a 4-inch phone comes back, it's like, "See, Apple is not afraid to make sure..."
00:45:00
◼
►
Because with the iPhone being such an important product, there's one thing where they want
00:45:04
◼
►
to have economies of scale, but the other thing is you want to make sure you get as
00:45:07
◼
►
much of the market as possible.
00:45:08
◼
►
It's the whole reason they made bigger phones.
00:45:10
◼
►
It was like, well, a lot of people do want bigger phones, so let's make a bigger phone.
00:45:13
◼
►
In fact, let's not just make a bigger phone.
00:45:15
◼
►
Let's make two bigger phones, because if we make it one size, it's not going to be big
00:45:19
◼
►
enough for the people who want the huge one.
00:45:20
◼
►
But if we make just the huge one, people are going to flip out because they want the not-so-huge
00:45:24
◼
►
And like I said, if they make the 4-inch, it will show that we understand that people
00:45:27
◼
►
on all different sizes and then maybe someday, like either they have to make a thicker phone
00:45:32
◼
►
someday or someday eventually the innards will take up so little power that this will
00:45:36
◼
►
be a moot point and we'll just cross the 24 hour barrier and then we won't have to worry
00:45:39
◼
►
about it again until people start wanting their phone to last a week instead of a day.
00:45:43
◼
►
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00:47:38
◼
►
- I was gonna say, we actually have
00:47:39
◼
►
some useful information here.
00:47:42
◼
►
Apple, in another strange turn of events,
00:47:44
◼
►
is actually talking to the press about the, of all things,
00:47:47
◼
►
about the little lump on the back of their thing,
00:47:49
◼
►
which like, when did this come out?
00:47:51
◼
►
Like earlier in the week, I guess?
00:47:52
◼
►
- Yesterday, I think.
00:47:53
◼
►
- Yeah, and then Apple already is talking again,
00:47:56
◼
►
talking to the tech press and saying,
00:47:57
◼
►
we would like to talk to you about the mean things
00:47:59
◼
►
people are saying about our battery case.
00:48:01
◼
►
They had, you know, I'm not gonna say some excuses,
00:48:04
◼
►
let's say some explanations about
00:48:05
◼
►
what is the deal with this case?
00:48:07
◼
►
Why the hell is it like that?
00:48:08
◼
►
Why doesn't, one question is, that lump on the back.
00:48:11
◼
►
Fine, you wanna have a lump on the back,
00:48:12
◼
►
you don't want it to be smoothed over,
00:48:14
◼
►
that's an aesthetic decision.
00:48:15
◼
►
Why doesn't the lump on the back
00:48:16
◼
►
go all the way from the top to the bottom of the phone?
00:48:18
◼
►
Why does it look like a band-aid where it's like there's the lumpy part in the middle and the flat part?
00:48:22
◼
►
and Marco already talked about this like and
00:48:24
◼
►
The their explanation is it's about cellular reception that if you put the battery over the top and the bottom of the you know
00:48:33
◼
►
Over the whole thing the antenna lines and the success are in the top and the bottom
00:48:37
◼
►
You don't want to block the antenna with a battery because it's not radio transparent
00:48:41
◼
►
And so they're keeping the battery away from the the radio parts and that gives better
00:48:47
◼
►
Reception which I can kind of understand that's something you have to deal with
00:48:50
◼
►
If you really do coat the entire back of the phone with a battery, it's gonna hurt reception
00:48:54
◼
►
People who have battery cases that are not that do hurt their reception know that it happens and it can be annoying
00:49:01
◼
►
So they avoided it just by not putting the battery there
00:49:03
◼
►
Did you have to stay so far away from the things could you made it again?
00:49:07
◼
►
I say if you if you're gonna put the big lump
00:49:09
◼
►
Why not make the lump thicker like when I go out and have more capacities really is depressing to me taper it maybe yeah
00:49:14
◼
►
Well, I mean I guess it comes when it comes down to an aesthetic decision
00:49:17
◼
►
like you could have left the battery the same exact size and
00:49:19
◼
►
Filled in the part with like essentially a radio transparent taper. It's not battery that's covering the things
00:49:25
◼
►
They're just taper, but I think the paper comes down to aesthetics
00:49:27
◼
►
And the other thing is I don't know if this is a legit complaint, but this is Apple story
00:49:32
◼
►
that a lot of the battery cases like the Mophies and stuff are two-piece things that are hard to get the phone in and
00:49:38
◼
►
Out of and at the Apple one because the battery doesn't extend all the way up to the top
00:49:41
◼
►
The top is like bendy and you could just bend the top back and then slide the phone
00:49:45
◼
►
How do you think I lost the video of this?
00:49:47
◼
►
And they're very excited and proud about the fact that it's easy to get the phone in and out
00:49:51
◼
►
I don't know how many people are taking their phones in and out of battery cases a lot
00:49:54
◼
►
Maybe it's because they're so hard to get in and out of like those really tight-fitting battery cases
00:49:59
◼
►
But is that you know, I guess it's okay to say hey
00:50:03
◼
►
We made it really easy to get the phone in and out
00:50:04
◼
►
But I just don't see someone coming home every day and taking their phone out or putting it in
00:50:08
◼
►
It doesn't seem like a frequent activity to me
00:50:10
◼
►
I you know and that's true of any case not just battery case like I never take my cases off my phone
00:50:15
◼
►
And you shouldn't because you'll find all the weird dust and stuff that collects up there, and it's gross
00:50:19
◼
►
well, it's funny you say that because I
00:50:22
◼
►
Typically use the Apple leather case for my iPhone because like Marco was saying earlier
00:50:27
◼
►
You know I happen to like the feel of it
00:50:29
◼
►
It is a little bit exorbitantly expensive
00:50:31
◼
►
But not only more it when when you when we bought our sixth generation ones it was like 60 bucks now
00:50:36
◼
►
they're 45. Oh, is that right? I didn't know that. Yeah, they dropped it with the S-generation.
00:50:40
◼
►
Oh, I didn't know that. So that's not quite so bad. But anyway, the only time I use battery
00:50:45
◼
►
case, though, which I do have, I have a Lenmar one, which I really liked until Marco showed
00:50:50
◼
►
me this one that we were talking about a minute ago, which I kind of am blusting over now.
00:50:55
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But anyway. Well, let me get it first, and I'll tell you if it sucks. Yeah, exactly.
00:51:00
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But I have this Lenmar battery case, which is just a cheaper knockoff of the Mophies,
00:51:05
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And it works really well, and I really like it.
00:51:08
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But the only time I ever use it is either a conference or when I'm at a football game
00:51:12
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when I'm not going to be around, you know, wall power for hours and hours and hours and
00:51:18
◼
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Other than that, I never ever use this case.
00:51:20
◼
►
And so getting my phone out of the Apple leather case and into the Lenmar case is useful to
00:51:25
◼
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have that easier.
00:51:27
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►
But I by and large agree with you that it's not the sort of thing that I'm doing daily.
00:51:32
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I'm doing it like once a week during the fall, and then maybe daily during WWDC.
00:51:40
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But that's it.
00:51:41
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That's frequent enough that I would say easy in and out would be good, although I do have
00:51:44
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to wonder, especially with these things, like the more times you take the thing in and out,
00:51:47
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the more loose it kind of possibly gets, and the more you could trap things between it.
00:51:51
◼
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That's another thing they talk about on the Apple website, that they have the microfiber
00:51:54
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on the inside, that it's cleaning your phone when you put it in there.
00:51:57
◼
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It's like, there's no getting around the fact that if you happen to get like three pieces
00:51:59
◼
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is a sand in there and you shove your phone inside it, microfiber or not, you're gonna
00:52:03
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make scratches. The other thing is about the lump, I mean Apple has talked about like grip
00:52:08
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ability and stuff and how it's also better for that and Gruber said he actually, rather
00:52:11
◼
►
than putting his thumb, his pinky on the bottom like you guys do, with the lump you can put
00:52:16
◼
►
your pinky under the lump instead of under the very bottom of the phone which probably
00:52:19
◼
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helps because the chin is making the very bottom of the phone go even lower down. So
00:52:22
◼
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resting your pinky underneath the lump could be a comfortable way to do it. Like having
00:52:27
◼
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never held one of these I can't really think about how it would feel. Would it feel awkward
00:52:30
◼
►
or would it feel better like giving you an extra place to grip like a handhold, that
00:52:34
◼
►
lump on the back. But the Apple silicon case is nice. My wife has one on her iPhone and
00:52:41
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►
the lump thing, I don't know. What I keep coming back to is many of our discussions
00:52:47
◼
►
about past Apple products have been that they favor form over function. We've talked about
00:52:54
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the MacBook One and the single port and how everything has to be so skinny and how the
00:52:57
◼
►
phones are skinny and how everything has to be so, you know, like just made like a sculpture,
00:53:01
◼
►
the Apple mouse, the tiny keyboards, the half size arrow keys, form over function, form
00:53:05
◼
►
over function too much, you know, but they can't make it ugly for one little bit of extra
00:53:09
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►
functionality. They just said, no, can we just make it beautiful and do the best we
00:53:11
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►
can within those constraints? And one thing you can say about this case is that it absolutely
00:53:15
◼
►
does not put form in front of function, right? Nope. Right. So, cause not because, not necessarily
00:53:21
◼
►
because it's ugly, but because like look it has a job to do and it doesn't really spend
00:53:26
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►
a lot of time figuring out how to make it look like a beautiful piece of sculpture,
00:53:33
◼
►
And again, getting back to it being true to itself, I think that old iMac design, I love
00:53:36
◼
►
that iMac design so much, I felt like that iMac design had both in that they said, you
00:53:41
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►
know, let the function dictate the form.
00:53:45
◼
►
We can't figure out a way to get these internals in the back of the screen and have it look
00:53:48
◼
►
look decent so don't even try. Have the screen and have the screen be free by itself and
00:53:53
◼
►
have it, you can move it anywhere. You can twist it around, you can move it up, you can
00:53:55
◼
►
move it down, it stays where you put it. It was awesome, right? And the base, it also
00:53:59
◼
►
looks beautiful but it was also totally stable, stays right there, it's small. The base of
00:54:04
◼
►
that iMac was actually a lower amount of volume I believe than the Power Mac G4 Cube so it
00:54:11
◼
►
was actually smaller than you thought it was. What you want is a beautiful blending of it
00:54:14
◼
►
But this one, when it came time to choose,
00:54:17
◼
►
should we like smooth this thing over
00:54:20
◼
►
and try to hide all this stuff and, you know,
00:54:24
◼
►
make it look like a beautiful piece of sculpture,
00:54:26
◼
►
perhaps sacrificing something of utility,
00:54:28
◼
►
like maybe not having a good lightning pass through
00:54:31
◼
►
or maybe having ridiculously low battery capacity
00:54:34
◼
►
to make it completely invisible and not useful to people,
00:54:36
◼
►
except for Marco who wanted more than an extra 20%.
00:54:39
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►
They didn't, and they made a different choice.
00:54:41
◼
►
And when they make a different choice,
00:54:43
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►
Their reward is a million articles saying,
00:54:45
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►
you have too much function
00:54:46
◼
►
and you should have paid more attention to form
00:54:48
◼
►
'cause I think what you made is ugly.
00:54:49
◼
►
And I guess that's because people think the ugliness
00:54:52
◼
►
is a result of them not paying enough attention to looks.
00:54:55
◼
►
If they just made something that was ugly,
00:54:57
◼
►
like say they made the MacBook One,
00:54:59
◼
►
that had one port and everyone was pissed about one port
00:55:02
◼
►
and it was ugly on top of that, you couldn't say,
00:55:04
◼
►
well, you said you wanted form or function over form.
00:55:07
◼
►
So you would say, no, no, they screwed up both.
00:55:09
◼
►
It is both not useful 'cause it has one stupid port
00:55:12
◼
►
and it's ugly as sin.
00:55:12
◼
►
Instead, they made this beautiful thing that has one port.
00:55:15
◼
►
And then you could simply say, well, they wanted to make it beautiful and thin, and
00:55:19
◼
►
then making a statement with this one port, and the scalped batteries and all this other
00:55:23
◼
►
Like they spent so much, all this technology and effort to make this beautiful thing.
00:55:27
◼
►
And we agree that it's beautiful, so we say yes, you did that, but you did the wrong balance.
00:55:30
◼
►
In this one, we don't agree that it's beautiful.
00:55:32
◼
►
We feel like you have not made it beautiful, so we're going to say that you didn't go for
00:55:38
◼
►
Instead, you must have gone for function.
00:55:39
◼
►
And you look at it functionally like, well, it's easy to take in and out.
00:55:42
◼
►
It has a battery in it, has lightning pass through.
00:55:45
◼
►
The only thing you could maybe ding them on is if you really wanted to go with form over
00:55:48
◼
►
function you would have made the chin even bigger so you could fit the long headphone
00:55:51
◼
►
jacks in it.
00:55:52
◼
►
But this does feel to me like a different balance than usual of form over function from
00:55:57
◼
►
Apple, if only because we all disagree about the form being beautiful.
00:56:02
◼
►
And I want to encourage that because half the time all we're saying is don't make your
00:56:06
◼
►
things beautiful sculptures because then you end up in absurd situations like the harpoon
00:56:09
◼
►
turtle mouse.
00:56:10
◼
►
more about form and then we all yell at them.
00:56:13
◼
►
So I can empathize with Apple and feel like we can't win with these guys.
00:56:18
◼
►
Well the right answer here is to recognize that if it is truly not possible to make a
00:56:24
◼
►
really good external battery case for an iPhone that also looks good, and good looks are important
00:56:30
◼
►
to Apple, then the answer is to reduce or remove the need for external battery cases.
00:56:35
◼
►
Yeah, like reducing it that's where it comes down to like how much if you added 10% capacity
00:56:40
◼
►
How much do you reduce the need 20% capacity?
00:56:42
◼
►
Like when do you get to the point where you're actually reducing the need because I think the people who need like those big mofis
00:56:47
◼
►
their Apple should never make a phone as big as those big mofis or like even like
00:56:51
◼
►
80% is big like so take one of the big mofis cut out all the intermediary plastic and merge that that those milliamp hours
00:56:58
◼
►
Into the phone that's too big for Apple to make right but people have those needs and so there's always gonna mean
00:57:04
◼
►
for some battery packs, and I just don't know what the ratio is of like of all the people
00:57:07
◼
►
who need a battery packs, how many people could get away with just adding 20%, 30%,
00:57:12
◼
►
right? So that's kind of what the third-party battery manufacturers are doing, and if Apple
00:57:17
◼
►
is not privy to that information because their surveys or focus groups don't work, that is
00:57:21
◼
►
a motivation for Apple to make seven different sizes of battery packs, and then hey, Apple,
00:57:24
◼
►
you'll have your own information about exactly how much more capacity people need, and you
00:57:27
◼
►
can use that to decide how thick to make the next phone or what target battery life or
00:57:33
◼
►
severe distance center to ever do so
00:57:34
◼
►
because that'll reduce the iPhone ASP?
00:57:36
◼
►
- Yeah, I think by making one case,
00:57:40
◼
►
this will give them some information,
00:57:42
◼
►
some real first-hand information
00:57:43
◼
►
about what people want out of battery cases.
00:57:46
◼
►
And if they make more battery cases,
00:57:47
◼
►
that'll give them even more information.
00:57:49
◼
►
Like they're always making that calculus.
00:57:50
◼
►
How big do we make the battery in this phone?
00:57:52
◼
►
Should we be going for a target battery life,
00:57:53
◼
►
like the iPad, where we just go for 10 hours all the time,
00:57:55
◼
►
we think we're okay with that?
00:57:57
◼
►
I don't know, what do you think their target is
00:57:58
◼
►
for the iPhones?
00:57:59
◼
►
They seem to vary more.
00:58:00
◼
►
Someone did a chart recently.
00:58:01
◼
►
They seemed like it was kind of consistent,
00:58:03
◼
►
but a little bit lumpy.
00:58:04
◼
►
The iPads were more of a straight line
00:58:06
◼
►
and the iPhone history was a little bit lumpy
00:58:08
◼
►
up and down here and there,
00:58:09
◼
►
but maybe they're just holding their breath and saying,
00:58:12
◼
►
if we just wait a little bit longer
00:58:14
◼
►
and we get Intel to manufacture the A11 for us
00:58:17
◼
►
at whatever insane feature size
00:58:18
◼
►
that they're up to at that point,
00:58:20
◼
►
and we make everything so low power,
00:58:23
◼
►
eventually this will just be a moot point.
00:58:25
◼
►
We just need to get across that finish line.
00:58:26
◼
►
It's already a moot point on iPads.
00:58:28
◼
►
They're already on iPads like saying,
00:58:29
◼
►
I'm gonna just fill that space with empty space
00:58:31
◼
►
with the speakers.
00:58:32
◼
►
Like 10 hours is fine.
00:58:33
◼
►
And we pretty much all agree, like for the most part,
00:58:35
◼
►
10 hours so far is fine for the iPads.
00:58:38
◼
►
For the phones, they're always on the ragged edge of,
00:58:40
◼
►
we don't wanna make it really big and thick,
00:58:43
◼
►
but we also want it to last kind of all day.
00:58:45
◼
►
And we know we can't really make it last all day
00:58:46
◼
►
because that would just be way too big.
00:58:48
◼
►
So, you know, just, I don't know,
00:58:50
◼
►
like every year I think they're gonna get closer
00:58:52
◼
►
and every year they just put a more powerful CPU
00:58:54
◼
►
and GPU in there or make the screen bigger
00:58:56
◼
►
so that that sucks even more power.
00:58:58
◼
►
It just seems like we're not really making progress on battery life.
00:59:02
◼
►
But I have to think somewhere out there in the not-do-this-in-future, we're going to
00:59:05
◼
►
start crossing over, like, give me one or two or three more hours, and then all this
00:59:09
◼
►
stuff starts to fade into the background and just be applicable to people who need to be
00:59:15
◼
►
able to play games on iOS for nine hours in a row and not lose their battery, or whatever
00:59:20
◼
►
the hell people are doing to use those giant Mophies all day.
00:59:25
◼
►
A couple of quick notes about the positives to the battery case.
00:59:30
◼
►
One of the things that appeals to me about this is that it does have that lightning pass
00:59:35
◼
►
It sounds like there are other cases on the market that have this, like the one Marco
00:59:38
◼
►
just impulse bought a few minutes ago.
00:59:42
◼
►
But having this Lenmar case that I do like, but also having to carry one micro-USB port
00:59:48
◼
►
just for that, and I pretty much have no other devices that use it, is kind of annoying.
00:59:53
◼
►
So I like that it has lighting pass-through.
00:59:55
◼
►
And then it also has some phantom passive antenna help,
01:00:00
◼
►
which, I mean, if you guys have something to say about that,
01:00:03
◼
►
But finally, the other thing that I think is appealing
01:00:05
◼
►
is when you drop down in Notification Center
01:00:08
◼
►
to see what your battery life is on your phone
01:00:11
◼
►
and possibly your watch,
01:00:12
◼
►
this will appear in Notification Center as well,
01:00:15
◼
►
which I think is really nice
01:00:16
◼
►
rather than having some stupid blinking lights
01:00:19
◼
►
on the back of the thing.
01:00:20
◼
►
Apparently there is a blinking light
01:00:22
◼
►
the inside of the thing for when you're charging, but that's obviously not terribly useful if
01:00:25
◼
►
the phone is in the case.
01:00:27
◼
►
I think those are all positive.
01:00:28
◼
►
I think that's good.
01:00:29
◼
►
And actually, I never thought about putting your pinky there.
01:00:31
◼
►
I've not held one of these yet, but that actually sounds really appealing too, because maybe
01:00:34
◼
►
that can shimmy my pinky up a bit so I can actually reach the top of my already too big
01:00:40
◼
►
That's another policy decision.
01:00:42
◼
►
Speaking of OS integration, what are the policies—I don't have battery cases, so I don't know
01:00:46
◼
►
what battery cases do this—but what is the policy in terms of, if you plug either a terrible
01:00:51
◼
►
micro USB or a lightning cable or something to the bottom of your phone that's inside
01:00:55
◼
►
a battery case.
01:00:56
◼
►
Does it charge the battery case first?
01:00:58
◼
►
Does it charge the phone first?
01:00:59
◼
►
When you put a phone into a battery case, does the battery case immediately begin charging
01:01:03
◼
►
the phone up to 100% and then stop charging when it goes that?
01:01:06
◼
►
Or does the battery case charge the phone up to some percentage like 75 or 80 and just
01:01:10
◼
►
try to keep it there as you use the phone?
01:01:12
◼
►
Like how do you, how does the software in the battery case I guess decide what to do
01:01:21
◼
►
And there is an argument to be made for the battery case not charging the phone up to
01:01:25
◼
►
100% and keeping it that way because keeping lithium ion batteries at 100% charge all the
01:01:29
◼
►
time shortens their life versus keeping them at like, I think optimal is like 40% or some
01:01:33
◼
►
crap like that.
01:01:34
◼
►
But at any rate, keeping it charged at max all the time is not great for battery life.
01:01:38
◼
►
Even OS X at this point like does that thing where it like lets your battery drain down
01:01:42
◼
►
like 99, 98, 97% and then cranks you back up.
01:01:45
◼
►
Like it's not good to keep it at 100% all the time.
01:01:48
◼
►
I've heard that some battery cases try to keep your phone around 75 or something to
01:01:53
◼
►
extend the battery life on it or whatever, but those type of decisions are things that
01:01:57
◼
►
can be adjusted I guess in software or maybe in firmware.
01:02:00
◼
►
Does the battery case have firmware?
01:02:02
◼
►
I don't know.
01:02:03
◼
►
Some cooperation between the device with the software on it and the battery case would
01:02:07
◼
►
be good here.
01:02:08
◼
►
And it's a perfect opportunity to try to do something that you couldn't do as a regular
01:02:12
◼
►
person because as a regular person without a battery case, you have to charge 100% before
01:02:16
◼
►
you leave the house.
01:02:17
◼
►
charge your phone to 70% to preserve the battery life because you're just going to maybe run
01:02:20
◼
►
out before the end of the day.
01:02:21
◼
►
So you're always charging to 100%.
01:02:24
◼
►
People with battery cases can maybe, I guess maybe they're frying their battery case keeping
01:02:28
◼
►
it charged to 100%, but I'd be more comfortable doing that than the thing that's inside the
01:02:32
◼
►
phone because it's probably still cheaper to get a new battery case than it is to replace
01:02:35
◼
►
a battery inside the phone.
01:02:36
◼
►
And certainly you don't have to worry about opening up your phone and doing all that other
01:02:41
◼
►
Well also, if there is integration between the battery case and the phone, which in Apple's
01:02:45
◼
►
In Apple's case, there is, there's software integration
01:02:47
◼
►
at the phone level, and no one else will be able to get that.
01:02:50
◼
►
There's one more thing you can do that's smart
01:02:52
◼
►
that is unfortunate that other cases can't do.
01:02:56
◼
►
iOS has a number of changes that it does,
01:02:59
◼
►
behaviors that it does, heuristics that it does,
01:03:01
◼
►
when it thinks it's plugged into AC power.
01:03:03
◼
►
It will more readily download things in the background,
01:03:06
◼
►
it'll pull apps more often, it'll use more power
01:03:10
◼
►
when it thinks it's plugged into AC power.
01:03:11
◼
►
If Apple makes a case that integrates in the software,
01:03:15
◼
►
I think a smart thing to do would be for the battery case
01:03:18
◼
►
to communicate to the phone, hey, I'm also a battery,
01:03:21
◼
►
this is not really AC power even though I'm charging you,
01:03:24
◼
►
and for the phone to continue operating
01:03:26
◼
►
as if it was running on battery power.
01:03:28
◼
►
I don't know if Apple's case does that.
01:03:30
◼
►
I do know that third-party cases can and don't do that.
01:03:33
◼
►
- Yeah, it might also be neat to see
01:03:36
◼
►
like what the policy decision is about low power mode.
01:03:39
◼
►
I guess maybe you'd never get into low power mode
01:03:41
◼
►
if the battery case is always charging the phone,
01:03:43
◼
►
and if you did reach it, it would be legit turned on,
01:03:45
◼
►
but what if you had a battery case
01:03:47
◼
►
that was like withholding its charge from the phone
01:03:49
◼
►
until the phone dipped to a certain level
01:03:50
◼
►
and then it triggered the low power warning?
01:03:51
◼
►
I don't know.
01:03:52
◼
►
This is yet another reason why actually increasing
01:03:56
◼
►
the capacity of the battery inside the phone
01:03:58
◼
►
removes all these complexities.
01:03:59
◼
►
You don't have to make all these weird policy decisions
01:04:01
◼
►
about how you share the battery and all that other stuff,
01:04:03
◼
►
but bottom line is, official support
01:04:05
◼
►
for everything we just discussed is a good idea
01:04:07
◼
►
because no matter how big you make the battery in the phone,
01:04:09
◼
►
someone's always gonna need something
01:04:10
◼
►
that's the size of a bar of ivory soap
01:04:12
◼
►
and there's gonna be battery cases exist.
01:04:14
◼
►
And if battery cases are going to exist,
01:04:16
◼
►
the OS should really have support for them.
01:04:17
◼
►
Like there should be a made for iPhone program
01:04:20
◼
►
to be compliant battery case,
01:04:21
◼
►
to get all the features we just described,
01:04:23
◼
►
even if Apple's the first one to do them.
01:04:25
◼
►
Like why withhold that?
01:04:26
◼
►
I was surprised to learn that I read the same thing
01:04:29
◼
►
that like that as far as iPhones are concerned,
01:04:31
◼
►
they think they're attached to AC power
01:04:33
◼
►
when attached to a battery case.
01:04:34
◼
►
'Cause battery cases have been around for a really long time
01:04:36
◼
►
and you would think by now Apple would have
01:04:38
◼
►
official support for,
01:04:39
◼
►
"Hey, if you're making a battery case,
01:04:41
◼
►
"do this and that and have these resistances on these pins
01:04:44
◼
►
"and will let us know that you are a battery case
01:04:46
◼
►
"and will treat you the right way."
01:04:48
◼
►
- We are also sponsored tonight by Squarespace.
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Go to squarespace.com and start building your website today.
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We are a bunch of programmers who listen to the show
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for the most part.
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If you aren't a programmer and you're listening to the show,
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you probably at least know programmers.
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I hate making websites because it just seems
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like my time is better spent solving different problems,
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not solving the same problems that people like Squarespace
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And Squarespace sites take so little effort.
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Do yourself a favor, next time you need to make a site
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for something, whether it's a podcast, a blog,
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maybe you're making a site for somebody else,
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they're asking you to make a site,
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try it on Squarespace first, give it an hour or two,
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you can probably get done 90 to 100%
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- One more bit on the smart battery case.
01:06:48
◼
►
There was a story in The Verge about
01:06:50
◼
►
does Apple's smart battery case look weird
01:06:53
◼
►
because Mophie has a ton of patents on battery cases?
01:06:56
◼
►
Well, Mophie does have a ton of patents on battery cases,
01:06:58
◼
►
some of them involving a two-part case
01:07:00
◼
►
which snaps over the thing and just, you know,
01:07:03
◼
►
tons of dumb patents.
01:07:05
◼
►
Is that why Apple's case looks like this?
01:07:08
◼
►
Apple says no.
01:07:09
◼
►
In their strange communication with the tech press
01:07:12
◼
►
that they are doing nowadays,
01:07:14
◼
►
they apparently have said through channels unequivocally no.
01:07:18
◼
►
- That's not entirely surprising
01:07:21
◼
►
since this Lenmar case that I have
01:07:23
◼
►
operates the exact same way
01:07:24
◼
►
that the supposed MOFI patents would prohibit.
01:07:29
◼
►
But to be fair, Lenmar is a much smaller target
01:07:32
◼
►
than Apple would be, so I'm not sure anyone cares.
01:07:35
◼
►
- I think Apple, like, the reason I believe this story
01:07:40
◼
►
that Apple says that they didn't make the case
01:07:42
◼
►
they waited because of patents is not because I think Apple,
01:07:46
◼
►
you know, Apple could have made the case
01:07:48
◼
►
and not infringed on Apple.
01:07:49
◼
►
I think if Apple made a case that infringed
01:07:51
◼
►
on Moby's Fafs, Apple wouldn't care
01:07:52
◼
►
because they've got a bazillion dollars and Moby doesn't.
01:07:55
◼
►
Like, if it seemed like Apple's about to lose the case,
01:07:58
◼
►
they would just buy Moby.
01:07:59
◼
►
I mean, seriously, giant companies like Apple are not afraid of small companies like Mophie
01:08:05
◼
►
when it comes to infringing patents because they could just tie them up in litigation
01:08:08
◼
►
until the company goes out of business.
01:08:09
◼
►
Not that they're like willfully infringing patents, but as I've said many times, everything
01:08:13
◼
►
is patented.
01:08:14
◼
►
There's tons of dumb patents.
01:08:15
◼
►
There's nothing you can do in the technology sector that is not violating someone's patents.
01:08:19
◼
►
So every single thing Apple does is violating somebody's patents, and that's true of every
01:08:22
◼
►
technology company.
01:08:23
◼
►
It's just the cost, the stupid cost of doing business.
01:08:26
◼
►
And so Apple is not going to have some sort of meeting before designing their iPhone battery
01:08:31
◼
►
case and say, "Let's take a survey of all the patents that are held by people who have
01:08:34
◼
►
patents on iPhone battery cases and make sure whatever we do doesn't come close to one of
01:08:38
◼
►
those, they're just going to make the case that they want to make."
01:08:42
◼
►
If they didn't, they would be paralyzed.
01:08:43
◼
►
Like it's like, "We're adding a feature to iOS.
01:08:45
◼
►
Please spend six months trying to search for every super dumb patent that applies to what
01:08:49
◼
►
we're planning."
01:08:50
◼
►
They're just going to do it.
01:08:51
◼
►
They're just going to do it and they're going to wait for somebody to sue them because that's
01:08:53
◼
►
That's the way business works in this stupid world that we have here in the United States.
01:08:57
◼
►
All right, anything else on the case?
01:08:59
◼
►
I can't believe we talked for so long about a battery case.
01:09:02
◼
►
Have you met us?
01:09:03
◼
►
Of course we did.
01:09:04
◼
►
By the way, did anyone order this?
01:09:06
◼
►
I mean, you'll have six.
01:09:08
◼
►
Well, actually, I only have a six.
01:09:09
◼
►
I assume it fits a six, right?
01:09:12
◼
►
Yes, it does.
01:09:13
◼
►
It doesn't fit the pluses, but it does fit the regulars.
01:09:15
◼
►
No, I mean, I can see why people would choose this one.
01:09:18
◼
►
You know, it does have some integration.
01:09:21
◼
►
It does feel probably pretty good if you want a rubberized silicone case feel for grip purposes.
01:09:27
◼
►
It is probably good for that, although I don't know whether the bulge in the back would be
01:09:32
◼
►
more comfortable, less comfortable.
01:09:34
◼
►
I don't know.
01:09:35
◼
►
But I see why people would choose this one.
01:09:38
◼
►
But I think anybody who...
01:09:40
◼
►
This sounds so stupid.
01:09:41
◼
►
Anybody who really cares about their battery case, I think would find many better options.
01:09:48
◼
►
- It depends on what you care about.
01:09:50
◼
►
may look rugged to some people. I'm not sure how the aesthetics will be received by people
01:09:57
◼
►
who are not as obsessed with the Apple aesthetic as we are and perhaps the people listening
01:10:02
◼
►
to this podcast are. Because Apple's design is a particular aesthetic and it appeals to
01:10:07
◼
►
us obviously because we like Apple products and we buy them and stuff, but it's not necessarily
01:10:10
◼
►
appealing to everybody. It's kind of like the Aston Martin aesthetic versus the Corvette
01:10:16
◼
►
versus Ferrari, just historically speaking. Those are three very different styles and
01:10:20
◼
►
And some people really like Aston Martin and think Corvettes are ugly, and some people
01:10:23
◼
►
really like Corvettes and Mustangs and think Aston Martins don't appeal to them.
01:10:27
◼
►
And the same thing with Ferrari.
01:10:29
◼
►
Not every style appeals to every person.
01:10:32
◼
►
And when I look at the style, I try to say, "Is this a style that would appeal to somebody?"
01:10:36
◼
►
And what I think of is like power tools, you know?
01:10:39
◼
►
Or maybe a combination of L.L. Bean and Dewalt power tools or something.
01:10:44
◼
►
Like there is a sort of rugged, rubbery, grommety kind of aesthetic here that might actually
01:10:51
◼
►
be appealing to some people and maybe there's more of them than there are the people who
01:10:55
◼
►
want everything.
01:10:56
◼
►
I would say apples in car manufacturer analogy is closest to like Aston Martin, but people
01:10:59
◼
►
do like Corvettes and Mustangs and they have bulges and flares and nostrils and all sorts
01:11:03
◼
►
of weird, rude things.
01:11:06
◼
►
So I'm not entirely sure if this is actually, even though it is so different than the aesthetic
01:11:12
◼
►
that we like from Apple, is it really unappealing to everybody? I mean, at the very least, your
01:11:17
◼
►
phone will sit flat on the table.
01:11:18
◼
►
- Oh, God. First of all, I think if Dewalt designed a battery case, they might have,
01:11:23
◼
►
I don't even know, but if they did, it would be way better looking than this. Secondly,
01:11:28
◼
►
I would far rather have a Corvette than this, and even though I don't like the way Corvettes
01:11:32
◼
►
look, usually.
01:11:32
◼
►
- Have you seen the back of the current one? I don't know.
01:11:35
◼
►
- Yeah, it's pretty rough, but have you seen this? I mean, have you seen the battery case?
01:11:39
◼
►
I have to say it's growing on me.
01:11:40
◼
►
It's growing on me.
01:11:41
◼
►
This one, I look at the back of this now, I start thinking it looks like the interior
01:11:46
◼
►
of a space station set from a 1970s movie.
01:11:50
◼
►
Like, take a bunch of these.
01:11:51
◼
►
If you could do this in miniature, like, take a bunch of these, erase the Apple logo and
01:11:54
◼
►
line them up to make like a hallway.
01:11:56
◼
►
Like these are the walls of the hallway.
01:11:58
◼
►
I can see that.
01:11:59
◼
►
That is from a sci-fi movie.
01:12:01
◼
►
They're like little bulging around.
01:12:02
◼
►
But what I've heard from, I think this was in the Mashable article, like, don't get the
01:12:06
◼
►
white one, people.
01:12:07
◼
►
I know, you know, we've already talked to Casey about this, but like white looks good
01:12:11
◼
►
in some things, but for something you're going to hold, it's going to get dirty and gross
01:12:15
◼
►
really fast.
01:12:16
◼
►
Like there's no avoiding it.
01:12:17
◼
►
We handle our phones all the time.
01:12:19
◼
►
We put them in pockets.
01:12:20
◼
►
We put them in purses.
01:12:21
◼
►
We put them down on tables.
01:12:22
◼
►
Do not get the white one unless you're okay with the fact that it's going to not look
01:12:26
◼
►
like Apple's product shots for more than like a week.
01:12:30
◼
►
Was it Christina's who said like it was discoloring after like one day?
01:12:34
◼
►
I mean, how can it not?
01:12:35
◼
►
It is magical, bright white, you know, Johnny Ives white world white.
01:12:39
◼
►
Nothing will stay – if you touch it, nothing will stay that color, sorry.
01:12:43
◼
►
Even like porcelain, even if it was made of fine china, I feel like it would eventually
01:12:48
◼
►
But this is silicone.
01:12:49
◼
►
It will not stay that color.
01:12:51
◼
►
What else do we have to talk about?
01:12:53
◼
►
We had a lot of updates.
01:12:54
◼
►
All the things got updated.
01:12:56
◼
►
Well, we could enumerate them and see if we have anything to say about them.
01:13:00
◼
►
We got iOS 9.2.
01:13:01
◼
►
Is there anything noteworthy there?
01:13:03
◼
►
I updated my devices and did not notice anything and didn't recall seeing anything significant
01:13:07
◼
►
in the change notes.
01:13:08
◼
►
Uh, weren't you, was it you that was very upset about the done button in Safari View
01:13:14
◼
►
Uh, not upset.
01:13:15
◼
►
Like, they keep moving stuff around.
01:13:17
◼
►
Like, I don't know if it's better or worse than the other place.
01:13:21
◼
►
It still hasn't fixed the actual thing that drives me nuts about Safari View Controllers
01:13:25
◼
►
is as soon as you scroll it scrunches up and hides and then you have to do something else
01:13:29
◼
►
to make it appear again before you can dismiss it.
01:13:31
◼
►
That is the maddening thing.
01:13:32
◼
►
care where the button is because the argument can be made either side it's like depends on what hand
01:13:36
◼
►
you're holding the thing with or whatever like there is no right position for the done button
01:13:40
◼
►
and maybe like i was thinking why did they move it maybe they were like well that's like where the
01:13:44
◼
►
back button is like on the left side and even though this isn't a right to left navigation the
01:13:49
◼
►
thing that makes it go away should be on the left and not the right i don't know what the thing was
01:13:53
◼
►
but the bottom line is that it still disappears as soon as you start scrolling a web page and that
01:13:58
◼
►
That is the real criminal act of iOS 8 and 9,
01:14:01
◼
►
and not the position of the done button.
01:14:04
◼
►
But yeah, that's the only thing I've noticed so far.
01:14:06
◼
►
- I mean, I've heard from a couple Apple people
01:14:09
◼
►
here and there that these were all
01:14:10
◼
►
pretty substantial bug fix updates.
01:14:13
◼
►
And that's good to hear, you know?
01:14:14
◼
►
I kind of like when there's a significant update
01:14:18
◼
►
that appears to contain nothing new, basically,
01:14:22
◼
►
because that usually means a lot of bug fixes.
01:14:25
◼
►
- I would have liked to see that in the change notes, though.
01:14:26
◼
►
Like, that's what I was looking for.
01:14:27
◼
►
"Yeah, show me all the bugs,"
01:14:29
◼
►
but they didn't show anything.
01:14:30
◼
►
- No, it improves performance and stability.
01:14:32
◼
►
I mean, they're not gonna tell you,
01:14:34
◼
►
here's 500 bugs that we fixed in these releases
01:14:38
◼
►
because they're not gonna make themselves look bad.
01:14:40
◼
►
- They do say some things, like they fixed,
01:14:44
◼
►
I forget what changed on this, but like,
01:14:45
◼
►
fixed the bugs that could cause whatever
01:14:47
◼
►
and whatever application, something really obscure.
01:14:48
◼
►
It's like, if you're gonna list that,
01:14:50
◼
►
are you not listing the other things
01:14:52
◼
►
that are equal in obscurity?
01:14:54
◼
►
I don't quite understand the political machine
01:14:58
◼
►
that determines what makes things be in release notes.
01:15:01
◼
►
'Cause I do see stuff that sometimes,
01:15:02
◼
►
it's not just like performance enhanced bug fixes,
01:15:04
◼
►
there's like some very specific things in there
01:15:06
◼
►
which makes me think, is there nothing else
01:15:08
◼
►
of that same specificity as this release?
01:15:10
◼
►
Surely there is, I don't know.
01:15:12
◼
►
- Yeah, I think it's very PR massaged to be,
01:15:17
◼
►
first of all, very passive, like,
01:15:20
◼
►
fixes an issue in which certain people were affected
01:15:24
◼
►
by a certain weird behavior.
01:15:28
◼
►
They used worrying and freezing to be just very passive,
01:15:31
◼
►
very like, this just kind of happened to us.
01:15:35
◼
►
Yeah, it's PR, it's all PR.
01:15:40
◼
►
- All right, yeah, I would agree, John,
01:15:41
◼
►
I didn't notice anything, I've updated my iPad
01:15:43
◼
►
and my iPhone, and Aaron's iPhone, updated my watch,
01:15:47
◼
►
haven't noticed anything there.
01:15:50
◼
►
- We got the OS X 10.11.2 update,
01:15:53
◼
►
which those release notes also,
01:15:54
◼
►
like they were like, "Hey, we added some fix
01:15:57
◼
►
"for some bug in mail or something,
01:15:59
◼
►
"but I saw you, Marco, asking on Twitter and to The Void,
01:16:02
◼
►
"did they fix like USB audio fix,
01:16:05
◼
►
"USB stack specifically related to audio?"
01:16:09
◼
►
And you got, did you get any answers about that?
01:16:11
◼
►
- Yeah, Tipster said that it,
01:16:13
◼
►
'cause like there are a lot of problems in El Cap so far
01:16:16
◼
►
regarding the USB stack and as it relates to audio devices.
01:16:20
◼
►
Where a lot of times, and I've talked to a few other people,
01:16:22
◼
►
I know this happens to them too, it isn't just me,
01:16:25
◼
►
where a lot of times I will have my audio device
01:16:28
◼
►
that I'm like playing music through or whatever,
01:16:30
◼
►
just stop working completely.
01:16:32
◼
►
Just like music just stops playing.
01:16:34
◼
►
If you hit play in iTunes, the time doesn't even advance.
01:16:37
◼
►
Like it's not even getting to the point
01:16:38
◼
►
of sending the buffer out.
01:16:40
◼
►
And then you try to select different sound output devices
01:16:42
◼
►
and like it fails or you can't select one
01:16:45
◼
►
or just disappears for a while.
01:16:47
◼
►
And oftentimes it's fixed by just waiting like 10 minutes.
01:16:51
◼
►
Oftentimes it's fixed by rebooting.
01:16:53
◼
►
Very, very strange.
01:16:54
◼
►
Apparently the USB stack had a lot of changes done in LCAP.
01:16:59
◼
►
And so I've heard from various people,
01:17:01
◼
►
including ATP Tipster,
01:17:03
◼
►
that that has been now fixed in the .2 release.
01:17:06
◼
►
So I'm excited to try it out.
01:17:08
◼
►
I haven't actually installed it yet,
01:17:09
◼
►
but I'm gonna install it after the show.
01:17:11
◼
►
- Do you have these problems only on your computer,
01:17:13
◼
►
which is festooned with German audio equipment
01:17:16
◼
►
and USB things.
01:17:18
◼
►
I'm wondering if it's like,
01:17:20
◼
►
because you are exercising both the USB subsystem
01:17:23
◼
►
and the audio component of that more than I am,
01:17:26
◼
►
but I've had zero USB problems,
01:17:27
◼
►
but I also do almost zero things involving USB.
01:17:30
◼
►
All I do is like a couple times a week,
01:17:31
◼
►
I plug in my USB mic to this one Mac and that's it.
01:17:34
◼
►
Everything else is not,
01:17:36
◼
►
I'm not unplugging and plugging things.
01:17:37
◼
►
I don't have any other USB audio gear except for this mic
01:17:40
◼
►
and I've had no problems.
01:17:41
◼
►
I'm wondering if it's because you feel like you're actually using the USB stack in a much
01:17:48
◼
►
more thorough way than I am that you're running into these problems.
01:17:51
◼
►
And I guess your control group would be like Tiff's computer if she's not messing with
01:17:54
◼
►
– maybe she is, maybe you've got all those mics hooked up to her computer too.
01:17:58
◼
►
Can you tell if it's because you are actually doing USB and audio stuff that's causing
01:18:04
◼
►
The problem is the bugs aren't easily reproducible.
01:18:06
◼
►
It just kind of happens out of nowhere maybe once a week or every few days.
01:18:11
◼
►
So there's never any one thing that seems to trigger it, so I have no idea.
01:18:15
◼
►
But hopefully it's fixed and I'm looking forward to seeing if it is fixed.
01:18:22
◼
►
Other than that, LCAP has been very good for me.
01:18:24
◼
►
It has not had any other real problems to speak of, but that's been a pretty annoying
01:18:30
◼
►
I think I've seen more people, like every once in a while someone will come across my
01:18:33
◼
►
Twitter stream or something I'm blogging around like, "Apple should do a snow leopard release
01:18:37
◼
►
where they just fix things or whatever."
01:18:39
◼
►
like, didn't they just do that?
01:18:41
◼
►
Like 10.11 is very, as we talked about, very snow leopardy where they didn't spend a lot
01:18:47
◼
►
of time on big new features, they tried to do bug fixes, Discovery D kind of messed that
01:18:52
◼
►
up a little bit, but here we are at 10.11.2, not too long after 10.11, by the time the
01:18:58
◼
►
point two release comes to have dealt with the Discovery D, which was granted, which
01:19:02
◼
►
was a hangover from Yosemite, see that one's like, oh they didn't fix that one very quickly,
01:19:06
◼
►
it took a long time for them to fix it.
01:19:08
◼
►
But anyway, by the time 1011.2 comes down, if we're kind of saying that the major problems
01:19:13
◼
►
that were in 1011.0 perhaps seem to have been addressed, that's a reasonable timeline for
01:19:20
◼
►
OS X releases.
01:19:21
◼
►
By the .2, .3, or .4, most of the stuff should be shaken out.
01:19:25
◼
►
And the .4 is like back in the day when it was 18 months or two years between releases.
01:19:29
◼
►
But if it turns out that 1011.2 got the really big issues, aside from all the other stuff
01:19:36
◼
►
which really has more to do with the server and the architecture and they can't actually fix by updating the OS which is sad but
01:19:42
◼
►
Anyway, aside from that if they really have shaken everything out that I feel like that is fully on a snow leopardy
01:19:49
◼
►
Type schedule people forget the snow leopard had some weird ass stuff in 10 6 0 as well
01:19:54
◼
►
Like every release does so I'm I've been very happy with el cap so far. I upgraded everything on the day
01:20:00
◼
►
It was released. I immediately apply all the point updates. I haven't regretted it. I have experienced no weirdness anywhere
01:20:06
◼
►
again, other than iCloud stuff, which I really,
01:20:09
◼
►
like anything that involves servers,
01:20:11
◼
►
I don't blame the OS entirely for that.
01:20:13
◼
►
- And really, I mean honestly, like in,
01:20:16
◼
►
for a while the Mac kind of felt neglected,
01:20:19
◼
►
because iOS was taking all the glory,
01:20:21
◼
►
and all the time, and all the new stuff.
01:20:23
◼
►
And then Apple started doing these like massive changes
01:20:25
◼
►
to the Mac, trying to make it more like iOS,
01:20:27
◼
►
like in the Lion era, and forward from that,
01:20:31
◼
►
and it just started getting really weird, and really bad.
01:20:35
◼
►
And then you had, I think Yosemite was kind of the peak
01:20:38
◼
►
of Apple not only having mediocre ideas
01:20:43
◼
►
on a lot of the Mac stuff, but also starting
01:20:45
◼
►
to have really bad execution of a lot of it,
01:20:47
◼
►
where it was just so buggy and so many problems.
01:20:50
◼
►
- Leopard and Lion both had bad implementations
01:20:54
◼
►
of everything too.
01:20:55
◼
►
- That's true, fair enough, okay.
01:20:56
◼
►
- Maybe it was just the odd releases.
01:20:57
◼
►
- Maybe. (laughs)
01:20:58
◼
►
But I feel like now we're getting to the point
01:21:01
◼
►
where the neglect in favor of working on iOS
01:21:06
◼
►
is actually helping the Mac most of the time
01:21:10
◼
►
because now it's like you can leave us alone
01:21:13
◼
►
and stop touching things and let us do our work
01:21:16
◼
►
on this pretty stable platform
01:21:19
◼
►
and you can go have your fun on iOS.
01:21:21
◼
►
And the only thing we have to watch out for
01:21:24
◼
►
is when they do one of these drive-by rewrites,
01:21:28
◼
►
Discovery D was one, this USB subsystem in LCAP
01:21:31
◼
►
seems to have been one, certainly the disk utility
01:21:34
◼
►
in LCAP is one, they kind of do these drive-by rewrites
01:21:37
◼
►
where they, for some reason, they decide something
01:21:40
◼
►
needs to be dramatically rewritten or refactored
01:21:43
◼
►
or redesigned or whatever, and they do an 80% job of it,
01:21:46
◼
►
and then they just move on to other things,
01:21:48
◼
►
and it leaves this subsystem broken for a while.
01:21:52
◼
►
As long as we can minimize those times where that happens,
01:21:56
◼
►
and they're leaving us mostly alone on the Mac,
01:21:59
◼
►
I'm okay with that.
01:22:00
◼
►
'Cause this is where we get our work done.
01:22:03
◼
►
'Cause, well, those of us who aren't using iPad Pros.
01:22:05
◼
►
But this is where we get our work done.
01:22:07
◼
►
Please don't mess it up, please.
01:22:09
◼
►
Just leave us alone, let it keep working.
01:22:12
◼
►
Please stop updating it every year,
01:22:14
◼
►
and please stop trying to do major,
01:22:16
◼
►
like, massive shifts on it.
01:22:18
◼
►
Just please.
01:22:19
◼
►
- Well, like I said, they're not doing those
01:22:21
◼
►
major rewrites for their health.
01:22:22
◼
►
Like, they're doing them for a reason.
01:22:23
◼
►
And the only difference is they just have to actually execute well on them.
01:22:27
◼
►
Like I, two examples, I gave LaunchD as an example in the past of like,
01:22:31
◼
►
why the hell are you replacing a NIT?
01:22:33
◼
►
It's perfectly fine.
01:22:34
◼
►
Like every Unix uses it.
01:22:35
◼
►
Why do you think you have to have your own thing?
01:22:36
◼
►
It's like second system syndrome, you screen it, but LaunchD is awesome.
01:22:40
◼
►
And LaunchD was buggy at first too, but they did it.
01:22:42
◼
►
And they did it because the existing thing that filled that role didn't
01:22:46
◼
►
have the features they needed.
01:22:47
◼
►
LaunchD does.
01:22:48
◼
►
They, they executed it well enough that they didn't have to roll it back.
01:22:51
◼
►
I know that's a low bar, but they did it well enough.
01:22:53
◼
►
they didn't have to roll it back.
01:22:54
◼
►
Most people didn't even notice it,
01:22:56
◼
►
except for the fact that I wrote about it
01:22:58
◼
►
in one of my old OS X reviews,
01:22:59
◼
►
and they were like, "Oh, LaunchD, what's that?"
01:23:00
◼
►
But I can tell you that the original version of LaunchD
01:23:02
◼
►
had tons of bugs, but they got it done well enough,
01:23:06
◼
►
and they moved forward.
01:23:07
◼
►
Another example is IconServices,
01:23:09
◼
►
which has had bugs, I don't know,
01:23:11
◼
►
for how many freaking years?
01:23:12
◼
►
Like, they're mostly cosmetic,
01:23:15
◼
►
and maybe that's why they didn't get fixed,
01:23:16
◼
►
but IconServices would corrupt its caches in some weird way,
01:23:19
◼
►
and all your doc icons would show up all crazy
01:23:21
◼
►
and pixelated for just years and years and years,
01:23:23
◼
►
And it's like, obviously this isn't a quick bug fix.
01:23:25
◼
►
Obviously there is something architecturally wrong
01:23:27
◼
►
with icon services and someone needs to go in there
01:23:30
◼
►
with a big wire brush and say, all right,
01:23:32
◼
►
what the hell is going on icon services?
01:23:34
◼
►
Let me deal with this, let me fix it.
01:23:36
◼
►
And that took so many years to happen.
01:23:38
◼
►
And honestly, I wish they had tackled that sooner.
01:23:40
◼
►
Sometimes you have a subsystem,
01:23:42
◼
►
they need it because it's super old and crusty
01:23:43
◼
►
and it's not even yours.
01:23:44
◼
►
And maybe it's like BSD code leftover from God knows when,
01:23:47
◼
►
or because the first guy took a pass at it,
01:23:48
◼
►
did a crappy job and you know,
01:23:50
◼
►
you wanna take another, a second run at it
01:23:52
◼
►
and do a better job.
01:23:53
◼
►
That's what you have to do.
01:23:54
◼
►
That's the job of basically the CoreOS group.
01:23:56
◼
►
I want them to continue doing that.
01:23:57
◼
►
I just want them to do a better job.
01:24:00
◼
►
And I think they do a good job almost all the time.
01:24:02
◼
►
And a lot of my old OS X reviews,
01:24:03
◼
►
I've applauded the CoreOS group as a great example
01:24:06
◼
►
of, "See guys, CoreOS is rewriting major components
01:24:09
◼
►
and doing a good job and improving things
01:24:10
◼
►
and fixing their bugs and year over year
01:24:12
◼
►
making things better and adding features.
01:24:14
◼
►
Why doesn't everybody else like say on the GUI team
01:24:16
◼
►
or whatever do that?"
01:24:18
◼
►
And the answer is like they have other stakeholders
01:24:20
◼
►
let's say like people who care about aesthetics
01:24:23
◼
►
and marketing and branding, whereas people doing LaunchD
01:24:25
◼
►
have nobody worrying about aesthetics or branding
01:24:28
◼
►
or anything like that.
01:24:29
◼
►
But anyway, I'm totally in favor of them continuing
01:24:32
◼
►
to look at their OS, decide which subsystems are really
01:24:38
◼
►
due for either a really thorough spring cleaning
01:24:40
◼
►
or maybe a complete replacement with something new.
01:24:43
◼
►
You just have to do it well enough
01:24:44
◼
►
that you don't have to roll it back when Vint Cerf complains
01:24:47
◼
►
about it six months later.
01:24:50
◼
►
I feel like that's a low bar.
01:24:52
◼
►
But that isn't a given though.
01:24:54
◼
►
I think modern Apple with this incredibly relentless annual release schedule of everything,
01:25:02
◼
►
all these different product lines that keep expanding into even more product lines and
01:25:05
◼
►
having the engineering resources spread incredibly thin and constantly moving around between
01:25:10
◼
►
things, I feel like what we keep seeing from Apple is that they don't seem to be incredibly
01:25:18
◼
►
good anymore at doing these big rewrites of subsystems or big new initiatives. Their record
01:25:24
◼
►
is pretty bad.
01:25:25
◼
►
What have they screwed up besides DiscoveryD?
01:25:28
◼
►
Apple Music is a big one.
01:25:30
◼
►
Like the USB one I would say is a success, especially at this point too. If you have
01:25:35
◼
►
a big refactoring and a big change to a major subsystem and you get all the kinks worked
01:25:40
◼
►
out of it by point two, that's probably pretty much all you can hope for. That's a pretty
01:25:45
◼
►
good job. I still have faith in those groups to be able to do this. And the yearly schedule,
01:25:51
◼
►
you can debate about that, but really, if they're competent, and I think they mostly
01:25:55
◼
►
are, all yearly schedule does is push features that take more than one release out farther.
01:26:01
◼
►
Because every release has a certain amount of overhead associated with it. And the more
01:26:04
◼
►
releases you have, it's like, say you want to do a feature, and it's like, I know this
01:26:07
◼
►
feature is too big to fit into one release. I'm not going to say file system, but you
01:26:10
◼
►
know, you can think of something else. I know this feature is too big to fit into one release.
01:26:15
◼
►
How do I do this project at Apple?
01:26:17
◼
►
And Apple would say, you can do that project just fine.
01:26:20
◼
►
You just have to be on a multi-year plan.
01:26:22
◼
►
If your thing takes a year and a half,
01:26:23
◼
►
we're not going to cut a release in a year and a half for you.
01:26:25
◼
►
You're just going to be on the two-year one.
01:26:27
◼
►
So there's the overhead of each release that adds to just--
01:26:30
◼
►
it's just overhead.
01:26:30
◼
►
It just adds to the work that everybody has to do.
01:26:34
◼
►
And then your schedules just get pushed out.
01:26:36
◼
►
Really, yearly releases is simply
01:26:38
◼
►
a matter of good management of software organization.
01:26:42
◼
►
What's above the line?
01:26:43
◼
►
What's below the line?
01:26:44
◼
►
What fits in this release?
01:26:45
◼
►
What doesn't?
01:26:46
◼
►
And if you do a good job about keeping things in and booting them out, I mean, you could
01:26:49
◼
►
even say Discovery D was the problem of that.
01:26:51
◼
►
Not as if they did a bad job on Discovery D, but during the meetings when they say what's
01:26:54
◼
►
in and what's out for 10.10, someone should have said, "We really wanted to do Discovery
01:27:00
◼
►
D in this one, but it's not up to snuff yet.
01:27:02
◼
►
Boot it to 10.11.
01:27:03
◼
►
Boot it to 10.12."
01:27:04
◼
►
You just keep kicking it down the road.
01:27:06
◼
►
That is the exercise.
01:27:07
◼
►
You could have, until you get down to a certain point where the overhead dwarfs the amount
01:27:10
◼
►
of dev time you have, you could have six-month releases if you wanted.
01:27:13
◼
►
It's all just a matter of how you draw the line for project management parlance, what's
01:27:18
◼
►
in and what's out for this release, what's ready to go and what's not ready to go.
01:27:22
◼
►
So I think having an organization that is disciplined in that way, and I think, I don't
01:27:27
◼
►
know if you can contribute to Craig Federighi or whoever, they went from the sort of loosey-goosey,
01:27:32
◼
►
artistic, "We'll release the OS when it's ready," Steve Jobs kind of "Let's figure it
01:27:37
◼
►
out" type of thing, to a much more regimented, "We're going to put ourselves on a yearly
01:27:42
◼
►
We're gonna be disciplined about it. That is that is much more sort of
01:27:46
◼
►
You know a business 101
01:27:49
◼
►
Like we should be able to do this. We if we are an efficient good organization
01:27:53
◼
►
It shouldn't be like well, I don't really know when the next OS is coming out
01:27:56
◼
►
It's whenever it's done and you know
01:27:57
◼
►
Well, the iPhone is taking some time away so leopards gonna be a little later
01:28:01
◼
►
It's like no we didn't release every year and if your stuff doesn't make it
01:28:03
◼
►
It doesn't make it but you know, the train is leaving the station with or without you
01:28:06
◼
►
I think doing that inside Apple was a really good decision
01:28:10
◼
►
They're just working on like what needs to fit in it and not fit in those releases
01:28:15
◼
►
Alright, what else got updated?
01:28:18
◼
►
WatchOS got updated. Big news!
01:28:20
◼
►
Actually that is sort of big news
01:28:22
◼
►
Real time follow-up for myself. I didn't notice any WatchOS updates except I went to kick off the workflow
01:28:30
◼
►
I have to tell Aaron I'm on my way home
01:28:33
◼
►
So this is using the workflow app and it will
01:28:36
◼
►
figure out the driving time from where I am to the house and then queue up a text message
01:28:40
◼
►
for Aaron saying I'll be home in like 15 minutes or whatever.
01:28:44
◼
►
It used to be on the watch that I would kick off that workflow and then I would have to
01:28:49
◼
►
do handoff to actually send the text message, but now I can run that workflow and it is
01:28:54
◼
►
capable of sending the text message from the watch, which is super exciting.
01:28:59
◼
►
I know you're both really happy that that has changed.
01:29:02
◼
►
Eric Meyer Why do the watch updates take so long?
01:29:04
◼
►
That's my question.
01:29:05
◼
►
It's such a small device, it has such a little story.
01:29:07
◼
►
What is it doing?
01:29:08
◼
►
- Honestly, I think it's because the watch
01:29:10
◼
►
is just really slow.
01:29:12
◼
►
I mean, CPU-wise, it seems to be roughly on the level
01:29:15
◼
►
of an iPhone 3GS, and if you look at Geekbench iOS benchmarks
01:29:20
◼
►
by Geekbench standards, the iPhone 3GS is about 16 times
01:29:26
◼
►
slower than an iPhone 6S, so if you think about
01:29:30
◼
►
the kind of thing it's doing, it's running on a processor
01:29:35
◼
►
that's 16 times slower than what we're accustomed to.
01:29:37
◼
►
Now granted, it's a simpler OS,
01:29:40
◼
►
I'm sure the patching process is simpler, et cetera,
01:29:42
◼
►
but keep that in mind as the baseline of like,
01:29:45
◼
►
everything that it does that has to patch with that CPU
01:29:48
◼
►
is going through something 16 times slower
01:29:50
◼
►
than an iPhone 6S.
01:29:51
◼
►
- I wonder if the storage has gotta be slower too,
01:29:53
◼
►
and I wonder what the bottleneck is.
01:29:54
◼
►
Is the bottleneck the CPU, is the bottleneck storage?
01:29:56
◼
►
Hell, maybe the bottleneck's RAM for all we know.
01:29:58
◼
►
- Yeah, and it could be the wireless connection
01:30:01
◼
►
of receiving the update, who knows what it,
01:30:03
◼
►
It's a lot of things, but I think primarily
01:30:06
◼
►
it's because the CPU is just so incredibly slow in it.
01:30:09
◼
►
But, we'll see.
01:30:10
◼
►
Honestly, thinking about, there's been rumors
01:30:12
◼
►
of the second watch coming out,
01:30:15
◼
►
possibly even as soon as the spring,
01:30:17
◼
►
which wouldn't be that ridiculous
01:30:18
◼
►
since the last one came out last spring.
01:30:20
◼
►
And there's been rumors about what it might be.
01:30:24
◼
►
The biggest one is that it might have a FaceTime camera,
01:30:26
◼
►
which sounds terrible to me, honestly.
01:30:29
◼
►
It sounds like you wouldn't wanna be
01:30:30
◼
►
on either end of that conversation.
01:30:32
◼
►
but what is a little bit disappointing
01:30:36
◼
►
is that I haven't heard anything about it being faster.
01:30:38
◼
►
All the rumors are about FaceTime cameras
01:30:40
◼
►
and Wi-Fi abilities, and I hope they can make it faster
01:30:43
◼
►
because I've had a lot of trouble figuring out
01:30:47
◼
►
how to really use the watch beyond the watch face.
01:30:50
◼
►
Anything involving apps or even glances on the watch
01:30:52
◼
►
I have gotten very little into,
01:30:55
◼
►
and part of it is because it's just so incredibly slow
01:30:57
◼
►
to do pretty much anything.
01:31:00
◼
►
So if the watch gets a lot faster over the next few years,
01:31:04
◼
►
I think that will change what we can do with it dramatically.
01:31:07
◼
►
I think it will really make it a lot more useful
01:31:09
◼
►
for a lot of different third-party app abilities
01:31:12
◼
►
where right now, you do anything on the watch right now
01:31:16
◼
►
and it takes so long that you're like,
01:31:18
◼
►
well, I might as well take it out my phone for that.
01:31:20
◼
►
- Yeah, that's kind of sad that the watch,
01:31:22
◼
►
like if the watch had come out in error before,
01:31:24
◼
►
like the iPhone 6 caliber devices
01:31:26
◼
►
that are just so much faster,
01:31:28
◼
►
maybe wouldn't have as much to compare it to,
01:31:29
◼
►
I was I was gonna make the comparison the iPhone one remember the iPhone one came out and it was so responsive
01:31:33
◼
►
But was it really compared to I know people do these videos of like here's an iPhone one versus an iPhone 6
01:31:38
◼
►
And what's we were responsive and they really did do an amazing job and keeping the iPhone one responsive
01:31:42
◼
►
But it seems like they they couldn't they couldn't get that kind of
01:31:47
◼
►
Perceptive, you know perceived responsiveness in the watch just because you're always constantly comparing it to your iPhone 6 which is a bazillion times more
01:31:55
◼
►
And yeah, especially watch kid in the first time doing like the remote app thing that just made it even worse
01:32:00
◼
►
So you're right the watch does the watch feel slow
01:32:03
◼
►
Although when I think of like oh the next version of the watch
01:32:06
◼
►
I know we talked about this at length before but like what does the watch need to be as far as I'm concerned other than
01:32:10
◼
►
Software being faster. I want to be thinner. I
01:32:13
◼
►
Know this seems like this should be an Apple's wheelhouse like they're good at making things thinner, right?
01:32:18
◼
►
And inevitably it will be but as we've discussed many times maybe not in the next version, right?
01:32:22
◼
►
But eventually it'll be thinner so we can look forward to the the the Apple watch 4 that is
01:32:28
◼
►
Thinner and faster and now now we were really starting to talk and it still doesn't necessarily mean
01:32:33
◼
►
You know having spent all this time with this watch and everything. I still am not entirely convinced that there is a
01:32:40
◼
►
Way, you know no matter how fast it was that there is something useful you can do with the watch that is
01:32:45
◼
►
Appy in the same way that that phone things are happy. I mostly think of it as I would like to go
01:32:52
◼
►
near a device or into a room or
01:32:54
◼
►
Into a place or at a certain time and have the watch
01:32:59
◼
►
Look and behave differently based on that so I don't have to mess with it
01:33:03
◼
►
mostly the thing I do is look at the watch and
01:33:06
◼
►
When I look at it because of where I am or what time it is or what has happened somewhere else
01:33:12
◼
►
It shows me something that is useful
01:33:14
◼
►
Right, whether it's I sit down in front of my TV and pick up my wrist and I can talk into it
01:33:21
◼
►
uses a Siri remote so I don't have to find the remote or like when it's time to go if
01:33:26
◼
►
I just look at my watch and it tells me the proactive traffic thing like I'm not what
01:33:30
◼
►
I'm getting at is I'm not touching my watch I'm not swiping on it I'm not using the digital
01:33:33
◼
►
crown I'm not pushing buttons or even if I'm just pushing buttons like you know like I
01:33:37
◼
►
said the one interaction that I really like with it is double tap and use it as the to
01:33:40
◼
►
do Apple Pay because I don't really have to look at the watch then I can feel for the
01:33:43
◼
►
button double tap like half the time it's still underneath the sleeve of my coat I can't
01:33:47
◼
►
I can't even see it, but I still Apple Pay with it.
01:33:49
◼
►
So far, that is the most convincing interactions
01:33:52
◼
►
for the watch for me.
01:33:53
◼
►
And I, like you Marco, I'm never using that interface
01:33:58
◼
►
as if it's a tiny phone, even for like three seconds.
01:34:03
◼
►
- No, and to me, I agree with everything you basically,
01:34:07
◼
►
almost everything you just said.
01:34:07
◼
►
It's like, whenever I'm using the watch,
01:34:10
◼
►
it is mostly about quickly glancing at it
01:34:13
◼
►
for the watch to tell me something.
01:34:15
◼
►
I am hardly ever touching the watch to interact with it
01:34:17
◼
►
on any level, really.
01:34:18
◼
►
And if I am, it's maybe one tap or something.
01:34:20
◼
►
It's very little.
01:34:22
◼
►
Because if you're gonna use the watch
01:34:24
◼
►
for more than about three seconds to do anything,
01:34:27
◼
►
it feels like a failure.
01:34:28
◼
►
Like it feels like, oh, I kind of regret this.
01:34:31
◼
►
I should have gone to my phone for this.
01:34:33
◼
►
Oftentimes, you still need to.
01:34:34
◼
►
I mean, oftentimes, one of the things I like so much
01:34:36
◼
►
about the watch is getting notifications on it.
01:34:39
◼
►
But a lot of times, I have to take out my phone anyway
01:34:42
◼
►
to act on those notifications
01:34:43
◼
►
or to even read the whole thing or something.
01:34:47
◼
►
So it's a little bit of a mixed bag.
01:34:49
◼
►
It is nice in theory, and sometimes it really is really nice
01:34:53
◼
►
but in practice I have to keep taking my phone out anyway.
01:34:58
◼
►
The more the watch can do faster for you
01:35:00
◼
►
without you touching it or doing anything to it,
01:35:03
◼
►
and if you do need to touch it,
01:35:04
◼
►
the more it can do in very fast response to that touch,
01:35:08
◼
►
the better it is as a product.
01:35:10
◼
►
And it doesn't feel like an app platform
01:35:13
◼
►
in the traditional way at all.
01:35:15
◼
►
It feels like Apple tried to wedge an app platform onto it,
01:35:18
◼
►
and maybe they just didn't realize
01:35:20
◼
►
how it wouldn't really work.
01:35:22
◼
►
- Yeah, I think you have to give it those capabilities
01:35:24
◼
►
even if those apps, like with all the things
01:35:27
◼
►
we're talking about, could be powered by apps
01:35:29
◼
►
if those apps are given sufficient power.
01:35:30
◼
►
So I think it's kind of like you just have to
01:35:33
◼
►
make the APIs and see if someone,
01:35:35
◼
►
they don't know what's going to be,
01:35:37
◼
►
it's kind of like with the iPhone,
01:35:38
◼
►
you don't know what kind of apps people are gonna make.
01:35:40
◼
►
Apple have predicted like an Angry Birds style game would be such a big hit because of touch
01:35:45
◼
►
controls and pulling back the little slingshot and everything. You just have to kind of,
01:35:48
◼
►
I think it's smart to make it a platform because whether you can figure out what's going to be
01:35:52
◼
►
the apps that work on it or not, the more capabilities you give people,
01:35:56
◼
►
you know, they'll try everything. The things that don't work, like it's no skin off your back.
01:36:00
◼
►
Someone tried it, it failed. Like it's good to have a big open space to experiment. It could be
01:36:05
◼
►
that it ends up that none of those things work. Or it could be that Apple hasn't exposed the right
01:36:09
◼
►
capabilities to the apps. Like if you can imagine a much more powerful watch that gives apps awareness
01:36:15
◼
►
of like where you are, if you're near an Apple TV or like sort of background type processing so that
01:36:21
◼
►
third-party apps could do any of those things that I just described, then third-party apps would have
01:36:25
◼
►
the capability to figure out what people do and don't want from it. And you know like I think it
01:36:32
◼
►
if you don't make it a platform then it's incumbent on Apple to figure out every possible
01:36:35
◼
►
thing you could do with useful. If you do make it a platform everybody can try all sorts of things
01:36:39
◼
►
most of which will fail and eventually we'll figure out what it's good for and I think so I think it was smart to make
01:36:43
◼
►
it a platform but
01:36:44
◼
►
So far everything people have tried including Apple. It's been like yeah. No, that's not it. Keep keep trying
01:36:49
◼
►
The custom complications I think was a fairly big success because those are things that you know
01:36:54
◼
►
You glance at and they tell you stuff, but that's it's a very small success. So we're still kind of waiting
01:36:59
◼
►
Yeah, my update on by the way not being a watch person
01:37:03
◼
►
I you know, I just don't like things on my wrist and like winter has made it worse because now I have like a you
01:37:09
◼
►
know, heavier coat that like kind of interferes with, you know, the heavier coat sleeves and
01:37:15
◼
►
JEAN: Oh yeah.
01:37:16
◼
►
Anything long-sleeved is not that pleasant with a watch, to be honest.
01:37:18
◼
►
MATT: And gloves and over it and like it's just making it more annoying.
01:37:21
◼
►
And so I had a couple of days over the past few weeks where I realized I never looked
01:37:26
◼
►
at my watch.
01:37:27
◼
►
I put it on in the morning to go to work.
01:37:28
◼
►
I took it off when I came home from work and during the entire time at work, it never vibrated.
01:37:32
◼
►
I never looked at it.
01:37:34
◼
►
I guess I ignored the stand things or maybe I didn't feel them or I don't know.
01:37:38
◼
►
And I'm like, "Why did you even put it on today because you didn't look at it?"
01:37:41
◼
►
And so now I have, it feels real uncomfortable with a winter jacket and my gloves and I know
01:37:46
◼
►
I've had days where I haven't looked at it at all.
01:37:48
◼
►
So now a few days I've decided, you know what, I'm not wearing it today.
01:37:51
◼
►
So I don't know if I'm slowly like, you know, again, it doesn't take much to make me not
01:37:55
◼
►
want to wear it because I am so not a watch person.
01:37:59
◼
►
So I may, that's my new thing now.
01:38:01
◼
►
Now instead of putting it on every time I remember, sometimes I remember to put it on
01:38:05
◼
►
and I choose not to.
01:38:06
◼
►
So that's, you know, I'm not going to say it's bad for the watch because again, I was
01:38:10
◼
►
not a watch person and the Apple Watch did not make me a watch person.
01:38:13
◼
►
I still think it looks nice.
01:38:14
◼
►
I still like wearing it sometimes.
01:38:16
◼
►
If I was going to like go out on the town or walk around the city or go, I would definitely
01:38:20
◼
►
wear it because I think it would sort of earn its keep then.
01:38:24
◼
►
But for days when I just commute into the office and sit in front of my computer all
01:38:26
◼
►
day and come home, sometimes it doesn't earn its keep.
01:38:29
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm gonna see, I mentioned that I'm getting
01:38:32
◼
►
a mechanical watch this Christmas,
01:38:35
◼
►
and I'm gonna try wearing that day to day for a while
01:38:37
◼
►
and just see like, you know, am I,
01:38:40
◼
►
I do like having a watch a lot now,
01:38:44
◼
►
but I don't know if I like it just because I like
01:38:46
◼
►
the fashionability and the time aspects of it.
01:38:49
◼
►
- The time aspects, you're staring at,
01:38:51
◼
►
like you're looking at the upper right of your screen
01:38:52
◼
►
all day, the time is there, unless you're hiding
01:38:54
◼
►
the menu bar in an OS X, you're not doing that, are you?
01:38:57
◼
►
- No, but I'm not always at my computer.
01:38:59
◼
►
I wish I was, but--
01:39:01
◼
►
- You aren't?
01:39:02
◼
►
Somehow I think you are.
01:39:03
◼
►
I always picture you, where is Marco right now,
01:39:05
◼
►
sitting in front of his computer?
01:39:07
◼
►
- Well, you're in line for chicken salad sometimes,
01:39:09
◼
►
I understand.
01:39:11
◼
►
- It's New York, I'm online.
01:39:13
◼
►
- Yeah, that's true.
01:39:14
◼
►
- Yeah, but no, I mean, it's, yeah.
01:39:16
◼
►
The reality is, you know, I have a life,
01:39:18
◼
►
I'm up and around, I have a family, I have a house,
01:39:20
◼
►
and I drive to get chicken salad every day, so.
01:39:22
◼
►
- And you need to know what time it is.
01:39:24
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm out and around a lot,
01:39:25
◼
►
and I have been totally converted now.
01:39:27
◼
►
I love having the time on my wrist.
01:39:29
◼
►
- What a great idea, who thought of that?
01:39:32
◼
►
- Yeah, right, a totally new idea.
01:39:34
◼
►
So I love that now, but I'm gonna see,
01:39:38
◼
►
'cause there's also a lot about the Apple Watch
01:39:40
◼
►
I don't really care for, and so I'm gonna see,
01:39:43
◼
►
am I a watch person or am I an Apple Watch person?
01:39:47
◼
►
So we'll find out.
01:39:48
◼
►
Anyway, I don't know, is that it for this week?
01:39:50
◼
►
This has been a weird episode.
01:39:51
◼
►
- Yeah, I think we're good.
01:39:53
◼
►
- Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week,
01:39:54
◼
►
Backblaze, Casper, and Squarespace,
01:39:56
◼
►
and we'll see you next week.
01:39:58
◼
►
(upbeat music)
01:40:00
◼
►
Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin
01:40:05
◼
►
'Cause it was accidental (accidental)
01:40:08
◼
►
Oh, it was accidental (accidental)
01:40:11
◼
►
John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him
01:40:15
◼
►
'Cause it was accidental (accidental)
01:40:18
◼
►
Oh, it was accidental (accidental)
01:40:21
◼
►
And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm
01:40:26
◼
►
And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them
01:40:31
◼
►
@C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S
01:40:35
◼
►
So that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M
01:40:39
◼
►
Anti-Marco Arman, S-I-R-A-C
01:40:45
◼
►
U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-S-A
01:40:47
◼
►
It's accidental
01:40:50
◼
►
They didn't mean to
01:40:55
◼
►
Tech podcast so long
01:41:00
◼
►
I'm going to assume Marco you did not get like a $40 timex what is it speedmaster whatever it is that I used to wear?
01:41:06
◼
►
No, you know that would be the more intelligent thing to do if you wanted to just try out wearing a watch
01:41:10
◼
►
No, he likes the jewelry. Yes. He's shopping in like Tiffany's
01:41:13
◼
►
For things you know there. It's jewelry and it also or jewelry as people tell me I mispronounce it
01:41:19
◼
►
Maybe that's long. I don't think too. I don't know anyway
01:41:21
◼
►
Yeah, like you're you're mostly shopping for a lot of these shopping for watchers like I find these watches ugly
01:41:28
◼
►
So you're never gonna buy an ugly one.
01:41:29
◼
►
You're gonna find one that looks nice to you.
01:41:31
◼
►
And then after that, it's like, okay, it looks nice,
01:41:33
◼
►
but is it terribly uncomfortable when I wear it,
01:41:35
◼
►
and so on and so forth.
01:41:36
◼
►
- Yeah, and honestly, I have found very few watches,
01:41:40
◼
►
like of most, the big brands like Rolex, Amiga,
01:41:44
◼
►
there have been very few of those that I've seen
01:41:47
◼
►
that I've thought I would like that.
01:41:50
◼
►
For whatever reason, most well-respected mechanical watches,
01:41:55
◼
►
their design aesthetic just does not mesh with me at all.
01:41:59
◼
►
Like I just, I don't get it, you know,
01:42:01
◼
►
it doesn't do anything for me.
01:42:03
◼
►
A lot of them, they seem like they're like made for
01:42:05
◼
►
like diving.
01:42:07
◼
►
There's so many of these big,
01:42:09
◼
►
of these like well-known mechanical watches
01:42:11
◼
►
that are just like made for like racing and diving
01:42:15
◼
►
and stuff like that, or boats.
01:42:16
◼
►
- They're not really made for that.
01:42:18
◼
►
- Well, but they all look like that.
01:42:19
◼
►
- Made for people who would like to think of themselves
01:42:21
◼
►
as someone who might go racing or diving,
01:42:22
◼
►
but never actually will.
01:42:24
◼
►
- Right, but then they have all this garbage
01:42:25
◼
►
over the face, and it's like, I don't want that.
01:42:28
◼
►
I want something that just looks nice and simple.
01:42:31
◼
►
- It's like the non-functional hood scoop on cars.
01:42:33
◼
►
Everything has a car analogy.
01:42:35
◼
►
- Of course.
01:42:36
◼
►
- It's a hood scoop, but it's not connected to anything.
01:42:37
◼
►
It was like, if you had something that needed, you know,
01:42:40
◼
►
to have fresh air forced into it, that might make your
01:42:42
◼
►
engine more powerful.
01:42:43
◼
►
You don't have one of those, but we can put a hole
01:42:45
◼
►
in your hood anyway, and you'll feel cool.
01:42:47
◼
►
- So the watch that I was referring to, the cheapo watch
01:42:49
◼
►
that you should get, is not the Speedmaster.
01:42:52
◼
►
I'm sure I'm gonna get angry emails about that.
01:42:54
◼
►
It's the Timex Weekender, and I will put a link into the chat and the show notes.
01:42:59
◼
►
This is what I used to wear, not this exact, not this band, but it was the same face.
01:43:04
◼
►
This is what I used to wear before I got my Apple Watch.
01:43:06
◼
►
It's a delightful, simple, classic watch.
01:43:09
◼
►
That's honestly, that's nice.
01:43:10
◼
►
I like that.
01:43:11
◼
►
Yeah, it's $25.
01:43:12
◼
►
I don't like the band.
01:43:13
◼
►
No, the band is terrible.
01:43:14
◼
►
No, no, no, the band is terrible.
01:43:15
◼
►
I had a different band.
01:43:16
◼
►
But yeah, the face is nice.
01:43:17
◼
►
It's a nice watch.
01:43:18
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So you could try out your newfound love of something else that's expensive and frivolous with this $25 watch
01:43:26
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But no because it's Marco you're going to get something expensive and frivolous
01:43:29
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That's right all those big expensive watch especially like you said
01:43:33
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Casey that like the style for men's fancy watches has just been to like to be like just
01:43:39
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Giant hunks of metal like it's like I already find anything
01:43:42
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I'm a rest uncomfortable and you're just gonna make it worse by just being filled with really heavy like hard
01:43:48
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hard, jagged, lumpy metal. Oh, just, just I can't even think about it. And I have thin
01:43:54
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wrists and I have weird shaped wrists and yeah, watches are not for me. I would sooner
01:43:59
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buy a pocket watch. You know what? I would buy a pocket watch shaped like the Omni, which
01:44:02
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is another reference you guys don't get. I would buy that, but I would not buy a regular
01:44:06
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I mean, we all have our vices and I guess, Marco, you're in need of another one. Did
01:44:11
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you figure out headphones now? You figured out coffee, you figured out headphones. Now
01:44:14
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you need something else to work on?
01:44:15
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He's still on the hunt for headphones, never satisfied.
01:44:18
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So he's, when a new one comes out, he always thinks his promise.
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Maybe this will be the one that is lighter than my other headphone, but also sounds as good,
01:44:24
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but has a better chord that doesn't flake out, but this, but that, like, it's like me and toasters.