145: Lasers and Pew-Pew and Space Aliens


00:00:00   I made the mistake of going to the grocery store today.

00:00:02   I figured, you know, if I go, yes, it's Thanksgiving week,

00:00:06   but if I go on Monday at noon,

00:00:09   no one else is gonna be there yet.

00:00:10   It's way too early and it's the middle of the day.

00:00:12   - People take off the whole week, I think.

00:00:14   I didn't understand where everybody was

00:00:15   when I went to work today.

00:00:16   It was a little traffic,

00:00:17   there wasn't a lot of people in the parking lot.

00:00:19   Yeah, don't go to any places that sell food

00:00:23   or beverages this week.

00:00:25   - All of the traffic was in my grocery store's parking lot.

00:00:27   (laughs)

00:00:28   Apparently everybody else in the world had the same idea that I did.

00:00:32   No one's gonna be there on Monday at noon.

00:00:35   I didn't realize you live in a retirement community.

00:00:37   Mm-hmm.

00:00:38   Oh, man, I feel like we need something fun and clever to start the show with.

00:00:43   Maybe we can do a little bit of follow-out, Jon's favorite topic.

00:00:47   The internet has given us a gift today.

00:00:49   And by the internet, I mean David Galetly.

00:00:52   I'm so sorry that I probably pronounced that wrong.

00:00:55   But David has given us the John Siracusa paper doll kit, which this is really a call out

00:01:03   to Reconcile All Differences, which...

00:01:05   Yeah, this is a different podcast.

00:01:07   You guys confused about what podcast we're doing?

00:01:08   No, no, no.

00:01:09   This is what follow out is, John.

00:01:10   Keep up or take notes.

00:01:11   John, are you acknowledging that follow out has a solid meaning and you are arguing over

00:01:15   what it is?

00:01:16   I don't know what follow out means.

00:01:17   All I know is that this is a topic for a different podcast.

00:01:18   We'll probably talk about it on that other podcast.

00:01:20   It's like when you say like, "Airing on another network."

00:01:23   We can't even name the other podcasts, but it's like,

00:01:25   if I can tell the difference,

00:01:25   you should listen to it.

00:01:26   (laughing)

00:01:28   Yeah, all right, go ahead, fine.

00:01:30   If you wanna do "Paper Dolls," fine.

00:01:31   - No, I just, I wanted to make,

00:01:33   I just wanted to call everyone's attention

00:01:35   to this absolutely phenomenal tweet from David

00:01:39   with the John Siracusa "Paper Doll."

00:01:42   Your nose was a little Rudolph-y for my taste.

00:01:44   If you'll-- - That's a style.

00:01:46   That's not, it's not a reflection on my actual nose.

00:01:49   - Didn't even notice the, "Long Island 1992" shirt.

00:01:52   That's delightful.

00:01:53   - Yeah, I don't think, it would be better

00:01:55   if he knew what the running shirts look like.

00:01:57   I should put a picture of him,

00:01:58   but he's got the hypercritical shirt in there.

00:02:00   Just thinking of printing this out

00:02:01   for my kids to play with.

00:02:02   - Oh my God, they would lose it.

00:02:04   - Also, I should have the ATP shirt edition, obviously.

00:02:07   - Can we get this printed on like a sheet of magnet things

00:02:10   so that you could actually move them around like magnets?

00:02:13   Is that, is like, is there a company that does that?

00:02:15   I'm sure there is.

00:02:16   - Oh God, that's amazing.

00:02:18   - He's done some other pictures of me as well.

00:02:21   I think one where Merlin's riding on my back, you know that one?

00:02:24   Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:25   Ooh, the layers are in folders.

00:02:27   Accessories, torso, pants, footwear.

00:02:30   So you can, oh this is actually, you don't even need the magnet, you can actually toggle

00:02:33   everything right from here, as long as you're willing to launch Photoshop.

00:02:36   That's what people have been doing where they compose the different versions of me.

00:02:41   So fantastic.

00:02:42   We'll put a link to the, we shouldn't put a link to the tweet, we'll put a link to the

00:02:45   website where you can see all the other stuff.

00:02:48   This really is incredible.

00:02:49   So you guys, we all did a very terrible job explaining why this exists.

00:02:52   Oh yeah, that's true.

00:02:54   All right, well anyway, on Reconcileable Differences, which is a podcast I did with Merlin Mann,

00:02:58   we talked about clothing at one point, and this was Merlin's idea that someone should

00:03:02   make a paper doll version of me to help dress me.

00:03:05   Because he got it into his head that he wants to do a... not a makeover, like, you know

00:03:10   those sort of Queer Eye type shows where there's someone who doesn't have any fashion sense

00:03:14   and then other people with fashion sense want to fix him?

00:03:17   That's what Merlin wants to do to me, or wants other people to do to me.

00:03:19   So here you go, paper dolls.

00:03:21   Tattoos?

00:03:22   Wait, what?

00:03:23   There's a tattoos layer.

00:03:24   Oh, God.

00:03:25   I hope there's a question mark after it in the layer, too, because the answer is none.

00:03:30   Except that one that nobody talks about.

00:03:32   Nope.

00:03:33   None.

00:03:34   Wow.

00:03:35   I don't really get tattoos, personally.

00:03:36   I've never ever, ever, ever desired to have a tattoo on me.

00:03:40   You know what that means, that you're going to have one in six months.

00:03:42   Yeah, that's true.

00:03:44   Actually knowing my history.

00:03:45   (laughing)

00:03:46   That's exactly true.

00:03:48   Oh God, no.

00:03:49   Goodness.

00:03:50   No, I just, anything I would want,

00:03:52   anything I would like enough to put on my body,

00:03:55   like A, it would probably be like some sort of consumer BS,

00:03:58   but B, inevitably I would end up hating it.

00:04:01   So, oh God, I just can't imagine.

00:04:03   - So I love, so I have configured now

00:04:06   the rugby shirt, dad jeans, A6 shoes,

00:04:10   and the John glasses, but the bow tie.

00:04:15   It's a fantastic combination, Hiro.

00:04:17   Both eyes are cool and you would get that reference

00:04:19   if you watched more TV.

00:04:20   - Yeah, I got nothing.

00:04:23   - Neither one of you, neither one.

00:04:25   - What was it? - Top four TV shows my butt.

00:04:28   (laughing)

00:04:31   - Which speaking of, I think I've gotten to the point

00:04:34   that I hate listening to top four

00:04:36   because so much of what you guys say,

00:04:39   like I've never listened to a podcast

00:04:41   that makes me wanna yell at it more.

00:04:43   - I think it's working as designed

00:04:44   far as I can tell. No, I think you're right. I absolutely think you're right. And the thing is,

00:04:48   like, I genuinely do enjoy the show. And there are times, like, I tweeted at both of you earlier

00:04:53   today, I genuinely thought that the way you handled the pizza discussion was perfect. Because,

00:04:58   without question, it is so much easier to find good pizza in New York, or the surrounding area,

00:05:03   than it is anywhere else in the country. Don't say it. Don't say it, but. There's good pizza to

00:05:08   be had in other places in the country. Which I did say. Which you said. I haven't listened to

00:05:12   this episode yet but I assume I will hate it.

00:05:15   - No, no, no, I thought Marco,

00:05:16   you guys both handled it perfectly, I really did.

00:05:19   Oh, this is perfect.

00:05:22   He just faced it.

00:05:23   - Isn't it great?

00:05:24   - Oh God, this is magnificent.

00:05:26   - It's just like the standard John plus a bow tie.

00:05:29   - Plus a bow tie.

00:05:30   - I don't think the bow tie fits with the rugby shirt.

00:05:33   I don't think that's, it doesn't, that doesn't fit.

00:05:35   - I think you should try this one day,

00:05:36   maybe next year WBC, something like that.

00:05:39   - I showed this to my wife and she said,

00:05:41   "Why do you look so angry?" I said, "I'm probably angry about either being half-naked

00:05:49   or about other people dressing me." Yeah, I couldn't imagine you'd be incredibly happy

00:05:54   about either of those states. So I think it's the appropriate expression.

00:05:58   Oh, God. But anyway, I was very happy with how you handled that. But the thing of it

00:06:05   is, I think part of the reason I was so perturbed at Top Four today is because I don't like

00:06:08   Indian food with the exception of naan, which is delightful. But the thing of it is, it

00:06:12   very, very well could be that I've just made terrible choices whenever I've gone for Indian

00:06:17   food. Like, I don't even know what I've eaten, but I can tell you I've not liked any of it.

00:06:22   And so I was very perturbed that Indian ranks so high in your list. However, I concur with

00:06:27   pizza, I concur with Panera and delis. I think you were a little harsh on Quiznos and Subway,

00:06:33   but I can get past that.

00:06:35   (laughs)

00:06:36   - No, I mean, if you're in a place

00:06:38   where the best options you have are Quiznos or Subway,

00:06:41   just go to the grocery store and buy cold cuts

00:06:43   and make your own sandwich at home.

00:06:45   It's better that.

00:06:46   Honestly, when I did live in those places,

00:06:48   that's what I did because it was better.

00:06:50   - Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:06:52   For the most part, I did agree

00:06:53   with most of what you guys said, so.

00:06:55   - And you can't forgive the Subway triangle

00:06:58   cheese tessellation issue.

00:07:00   - Yes, you are spot on on that.

00:07:02   I completely agree.

00:07:04   To give context for this, this is Top 4, the podcast that Marco does with Tiff, his wife,

00:07:10   and they supposedly rank the Top 4 whatever.

00:07:15   So Top 4 takeout restaurants, Top 4 Halloween candies.

00:07:19   What they actually do on the show is only vaguely related to that, and they're now lately

00:07:23   both having trouble coming up with Top 4 anything.

00:07:26   And most of their opinions are terribly wrong.

00:07:28   Anyway, that's why you listen to the show, because it is both entertaining and infuriating.

00:07:32   it short, so there you go. Have we concluded the advertise other podcast sections of this

00:07:37   podcast yet?

00:07:38   Yes, you know, you should complain about the fact that I have brought up the two podcasts

00:07:43   that my co-hosts have done, and I have not brought up any of my extracurriculars. But

00:07:47   yes, you continue to be upset, Jon.

00:07:48   Well, that's just your personality, Casey. You didn't even mention robot or not.

00:07:52   Well, now we have. Are you satisfied? Would you like me to bring up The Incomparable?

00:07:56   You were on The Incomparable. It's practically your show now.

00:07:59   I hate you so much right now, Jon.

00:08:04   One episode only.

00:08:07   I understood that reference.

00:08:08   All right, so now that you've ruined follow-out for me, just as you had planned, can we do

00:08:13   some follow-up and talk about what Ben wrote in and said?

00:08:17   I thought you would never ask.

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00:10:08   - All right, so John, tell us in this follow-up section

00:10:11   what Ben G wrote in and said.

00:10:13   - We were talking about the iPad Pro screen

00:10:16   and how it wasn't quite as good in terms of color accuracy

00:10:19   as the Surface Pro 4 and also not as good

00:10:21   actually some of the earlier iPad screens Apple had made or the smaller ones anyway.

00:10:25   And I wondered, I said it was kind of a shame that it didn't have the new sort

00:10:31   of wide spectrum or whatever the correct term is it a large gamut? Anyway, display

00:10:38   that the iMac does, the P3 specification which is supposedly bigger

00:10:42   than sRGB and Ben wrote in to tell us that one of the reasons the iPad Pro

00:10:46   can't do that is because it requires an RGB backlight. So these screens that we

00:10:50   call LCDs but sometimes also LEDs. The LED just refers to the backlight so

00:10:54   you've got a bunch of you've got this semi-transparent thing in front with

00:10:58   little colored sections that you can turn on and off in different amounts and

00:11:01   behind it behind most screens you just have a big white light that's just on

00:11:05   all the time over the entire screen for computer screens anyway and apparently

00:11:10   the iMac has instead of a big white light behind it an RGB backlight so it's

00:11:15   a backlight that can be different colors instead of just white and I didn't know

00:11:19   I know televisions do that and televisions do all sorts of weird tricks with the backlight to try to make the image look better

00:11:24   But it makes sense that if the iMac has an RGB backlight

00:11:28   Perhaps they can't get that small enough or low power enough to be in a iPad Pro just yet

00:11:34   Come we have to wake up more years, I guess

00:11:36   Fair enough. Well, I did not know that I really didn't have any idea that it was an RGB backlight. That's very cool

00:11:42   Tell me about iMac Insomnia

00:11:44   Yeah, my new my wife's new

00:11:47   27 inch retina iMac I was saying last week that it seems to have insomnia

00:11:54   Put it to sleep and then it will wake up again

00:11:56   Or we'll just walk away from the computer after using it and then come back an hour later

00:11:59   And it's still awake, and I wasn't quite able to figure out why lots of listeners sent in suggestions

00:12:05   One common one was the the IR receiver if it's in the line of sight of

00:12:10   Something that sprays IR like a remote control or one of those IR blaster things or whatever

00:12:15   It's conceivable that the IR receiver on the Amac, which I guess it has one.

00:12:19   I don't even know that it had one, and I didn't even check if it did have one.

00:12:23   But the theory is that for our computers that do have an IR receiver, if it's near your

00:12:28   television or something like that, you could keep it awake just with IR input.

00:12:32   I don't know if that theory is correct because my thing is definitely not in the line of

00:12:36   sight of any IR, and I don't even know if my thing has an IR receiver.

00:12:40   Probably does, but who knows.

00:12:41   Anyway, the next guess was Bluetooth.

00:12:44   If you go to the Bluetooth preference pane, this is annoying that this is an inside energy

00:12:48   saver but it's not, you gotta go to the Bluetooth preference pane, then you have to click on

00:12:51   advanced.

00:12:52   Then there's a checkbox that says "allow Bluetooth devices to wake this computer" and that was

00:12:57   checked by default.

00:12:58   So I unchecked it and I think my problems are solved.

00:13:01   Because I've got, the reason that feature exists is if you have, like the new iMac,

00:13:04   if you get it with the recommended Apple crappy cripples Bluetooth keyboard and the recommended

00:13:11   Bluetooth mouse, then you don't have your mouse or your keyboard connected with a wire

00:13:15   to your computer.

00:13:16   So when your computer goes to sleep, if you don't have the setting checked and you hit

00:13:19   the space bar like to wake up your computer or wiggle the mouse or click the mouse button

00:13:22   or something, the computer won't actually wake up.

00:13:24   I don't have that problem because we've got a wired keyboard attached to it and actually

00:13:28   a USB mouse that's wireless to the keyboard.

00:13:31   Anyway, so I uncheck that thing and so far so good.

00:13:35   The computer has not had insomnia.

00:13:37   It hasn't woken up spontaneously and when it goes to sleep, it stays asleep.

00:13:40   So I'm pretty well convinced that I've solved my problem.

00:13:43   Excellent.

00:13:44   I wouldn't have guessed it was Bluetooth acting up, but I'm glad you figured that

00:13:49   out.

00:13:50   I also don't understand how you could have wires on your desktop, but teach their own.

00:13:54   It's a keyboard tray, so the wires go underneath.

00:13:56   You're not going to see them.

00:13:57   Oh, a keyboard tray.

00:13:58   Yeah, you've got to have the keyboard at the right height, you know?

00:14:00   Put the desk at the right height.

00:14:01   Well, the desk feels too low, and then you need something to prop the computer up.

00:14:07   Yeah, that's easier than managing a keyboard tray.

00:14:09   I think the main reason my wife likes the keyboard tray is that it gives her more room

00:14:13   to put junk on the desk.

00:14:15   Because the keyboard tray is underneath, the entire surface of the desk in front of you

00:14:18   is free for just having papers and stuff.

00:14:21   Sometimes it's good because you're referring to them, other times you're just piling stuff.

00:14:24   But it really is convenient.

00:14:26   Even if I didn't need it for ergonomic positioning, even if I had a desk that went up and down

00:14:30   and I could get it the right way, in fact I had that at work.

00:14:31   My desk at work is somewhat adjustable.

00:14:34   I tried putting it down at the level that it should be for the keyboard, and I just

00:14:37   like the desk higher and to have the little tray underneath it is just what I'm used to.

00:14:41   All right, any other follow-up? That was another quick round of follow-up. I'm very proud of

00:14:46   us. Well, this is a short period of time after

00:14:49   the last episode, I'm sure. Yeah. And also, it's slow for the holidays. I feel like we

00:14:53   need to have like a laid-back holiday episode. Oh, I should have poured a drink. I didn't

00:14:58   realize that was the plan. Yeah.

00:15:00   Oh, goodness. All right, so speaking of holidays, Jon, you came up with an idea for this episode.

00:15:05   Yeah, because we're recording this on a Monday only a few days after we recorded the last episode because we're all off for our

00:15:11   holidays or Thanksgiving holiday vacations and travels and so on I thought what better way to

00:15:17   Celebrate Thanksgiving which is a holiday here in the US people outside the US can look it up

00:15:23   It's pretty dumb as far as holidays go. But anyway, it is a holiday and we get off work

00:15:26   Oh slow down you're gonna have to explain yourself on that one. It's one of those holidays that really is

00:15:34   It doesn't really make much sense.

00:15:37   It's not really that historically significant.

00:15:39   It's only because the people involved in it were the important enough people to celebrate

00:15:42   something.

00:15:43   It's like they're celebrating – anyway, you can read the story of Thanksgiving, but

00:15:45   bottom line is we – you know, people, Europeans came to this country and slaughtered all the

00:15:49   indigenous people and took all their land.

00:15:50   Not that we're supposed to feel guilty for it and stuff, but having a holiday, kind of

00:15:54   celebrating how nice it was that we all cooperated is like weird.

00:15:57   It's like, yeah, and then we lived together happily ever after, right?

00:16:01   No, we don't want to fall – anyway.

00:16:03   It's not as bad as Columbus Day, but it's close.

00:16:07   But we don't care because it's just the holiday season and we have turkey and gather around

00:16:10   with family and argue about politics or however your Thanksgiving is going to go.

00:16:15   I don't want to make this into a downer.

00:16:16   Bottom line is we get off work.

00:16:17   Let's concentrate on what's important here.

00:16:19   But only for Thursday.

00:16:21   You have to take a vacation day for Friday.

00:16:23   Or just be retired like some of us are.

00:16:26   Well, even Marco has to visit family on Thanksgiving.

00:16:30   Thanksgiving, I would rather work for the rest of the year full-time than deal with

00:16:36   Thanksgiving family drama.

00:16:37   Untrue.

00:16:38   You don't know my family.

00:16:39   Well, I don't know.

00:16:41   I think you underestimate what it would be like to work for the rest of the year, waking

00:16:44   up and getting into an office and commuting through graphic at nine o'clock every day.

00:16:49   I'm not going to get in the middle of this one.

00:16:51   Anyway, I don't want to make this into a downer.

00:16:53   The whole point is, it's Thanksgiving, which, like I said, even though it's a stupid holiday,

00:16:57   it is a holiday.

00:16:59   And one of the good things about Thanksgiving is a time of year when, in theory, you are

00:17:02   supposed to reflect on what you are thankful for.

00:17:06   That is usually the part of the evening before people get drunk and angry and start arguing

00:17:09   about politics.

00:17:10   Sometimes you go around the table and say what you're thankful for, or whoever is the

00:17:15   most willing and able to induce embarrassment in your extended family usually makes this

00:17:20   happen.

00:17:21   So I guess I'm filling that role here on the podcast.

00:17:23   And so I had to ask the assembled group of hosts, "What 2015-ish tech things are we most

00:17:33   thankful for?"

00:17:34   They don't have to be this year.

00:17:35   They could be like a three- or four-year-old tech that you just discovered this year.

00:17:37   I don't know.

00:17:38   The year of framing is loose.

00:17:39   But anyway, what kind of things are we thankful for?

00:17:41   I figure we'll just go around in circles until we're all exhausted and don't have anything

00:17:45   left to be thankful for.

00:17:46   I hope you have more than one thing.

00:17:48   Oh, great.

00:17:49   I have a whole list.

00:17:50   Really?

00:17:51   Is it four?

00:17:52   trying not to invoke the "Ghost of Top Four" by making Marco have a list. It's like,

00:17:56   "Well, I'm not the most thankful for this, but it's probably around number five."

00:18:00   I actually have five.

00:18:01   Uh-huh. Are they all number five? Or...

00:18:03   No, there's a very clear number one.

00:18:06   All right. All right. Marco seems like he's ready to go first, so go ahead.

00:18:09   Yeah, I did not do my homework on this. I thought about it for like ten minutes about

00:18:13   half an hour ago. Goodness, if Marco's doing more homework than I am, something is seriously

00:18:17   broken there.

00:18:18   I gave you like three days' notice.

00:18:19   - No, I just kind of forgot.

00:18:21   Oh goodness, all right, go ahead Marco.

00:18:22   - Well, my clear number one,

00:18:25   I thought of it immediately when you said this,

00:18:27   and there is no contest,

00:18:29   MDNS responder.

00:18:30   (laughing)

00:18:33   Suction number one.

00:18:34   So, if anybody doesn't get the joke,

00:18:37   this is the old version of Discovery D,

00:18:41   which is the system daemon that's responsible

00:18:45   on Macs and iOS devices for network name lookup,

00:18:49   finding Bonjour devices, et cetera,

00:18:52   or whatever Bonjour is called.

00:18:53   Well, oh no, that's the new name.

00:18:55   It used to be called Rendezvous, right?

00:18:57   Anyway, so it's very much responsible for

00:19:01   Macs and Apple devices finding other servers and devices

00:19:05   on the network and coordinating things with them.

00:19:07   So for things like file sharing,

00:19:08   probably involved in things like AirDrop,

00:19:11   definitely like network shares,

00:19:13   Apple TV kind of stuff, AirPlay.

00:19:15   And Discovery D was the new version of this,

00:19:19   the rewrite of this.

00:19:20   It shipped with Yosemite and with iOS 8.

00:19:23   It was so buggy and it caused so many problems

00:19:27   for so many people.

00:19:28   You know, if during the era of Yosemite and iOS 8,

00:19:31   if you ever had things like other Macs on your network

00:19:35   disappear and just not be visible in Finder

00:19:37   for browsing or for sharing,

00:19:38   or if you had things like you'd have the computer name

00:19:41   with a number after it, like, you know,

00:19:44   TIFF's computer, seven.

00:19:46   And it's like, what?

00:19:47   And then where, you know,

00:19:48   or some crazy number like that.

00:19:49   So that was the kind of problem you'd see with this,

00:19:52   but it caused so many other problems

00:19:54   that some people just got lucky,

00:19:56   like the HDMI CEC unicorns, and just never hit it.

00:20:00   I hit all of these problems.

00:20:01   So you'd have problems like certain network printers

00:20:05   that had Bonjour interfaces would frequently fail

00:20:08   and just never be connectable anymore.

00:20:11   Airplay would fail constantly.

00:20:13   Airdrop would fail constantly.

00:20:14   So many problems with various network

00:20:18   and inter-Mac, inter-iOS communication things.

00:20:21   And this was honestly, this was a major driver

00:20:24   behind my well-circulated piece,

00:20:26   Apple Has Lost the Functional High Ground,

00:20:27   from last winter, because it shipped with Yosemite

00:20:32   and iOS 8 in the fall of 2014.

00:20:36   And it took until, what, summertime?

00:20:39   Something like that, before they issued an update

00:20:41   that reverted it back to the old,

00:20:43   they reverted DiscoveryD back to the old one,

00:20:45   MDNS Responder, which just fixed all the problems.

00:20:48   And so it was a good six months,

00:20:51   something like that, of using this.

00:20:53   And the number of problems I encountered

00:20:55   for those six months just made me question

00:20:57   everything about Apple, just like,

00:20:59   how could they possibly have let this go for so long,

00:21:01   how could they have shipped this?

00:21:02   And it was making all the stuff

00:21:03   that makes Apple devices usually really pleasant,

00:21:06   like so much of it was crumbling

00:21:08   or was at least unreliable for me.

00:21:10   And when they went back to MDNS Responder,

00:21:14   a massive amount of these problems

00:21:16   just disappeared immediately for me.

00:21:18   And so now I can do things like browse the iTunes share

00:21:23   from the Apple TV and watch movies

00:21:25   that are on my home server on the Apple TV

00:21:27   and just stuff like that.

00:21:28   I can reliably connect to the Mac Mini

00:21:30   that serves this live stream.

00:21:31   I can reliably connect to Tiff's computer and share files.

00:21:34   I can print and it works every time.

00:21:36   Like this is stuff that used to work very reliably,

00:21:40   didn't for like six months and now does again.

00:21:43   So number one by far for me is the return

00:21:46   of MDNS Responder.

00:21:47   - I like that the number one thing you're thankful for

00:21:49   is really just a sly way to complain about something.

00:21:52   - No, it's honestly like, I wrote an update article

00:21:56   once I was pretty sure that this had fixed everything,

00:21:59   and I really want to be clear that,

00:22:01   yeah, it was really bad before.

00:22:03   And also, I'm really happy now because now they have fixed

00:22:07   that massive class of problems.

00:22:09   And Apple stuff has all sorts of other problems still.

00:22:11   And I'm sure we will spend,

00:22:14   we will spare no moment talking about those.

00:22:16   But that really did fix a ton of them that I was having.

00:22:21   And it says a lot about Apple that they were,

00:22:24   you know, that was a big mistake to ship that

00:22:26   and to stick with it for so long.

00:22:27   But it does say a lot about Apple that

00:22:29   rather than just like double down on that

00:22:32   and just like try to crank through

00:22:33   and figure out all the problems,

00:22:35   they just said, "No, we'll just go back."

00:22:36   Like, I don't think they've really done that very often.

00:22:40   And I can't even imagine what had to go on

00:22:42   inside the company to convince whoever needed

00:22:44   to be convinced to roll back, to just abandon

00:22:46   this whole rewrite of this thing and just roll back

00:22:48   to the previous version.

00:22:49   But I'm really glad they did, because it really did fix

00:22:52   a massive number of problems that I was having.

00:22:55   - As I mentioned when this originally happened,

00:22:57   MDNS Responder had a terrible reputation

00:23:00   in the early years of OS X, because it was the process

00:23:04   that it was always hanging and making stuff not work

00:23:06   on your computer.

00:23:07   All that kind of like basic functionality

00:23:09   of connecting to servers and loading web pages

00:23:11   and stuff like that.

00:23:12   Oh, you got to kill an MDNS responder,

00:23:14   it's hung or it's constantly crashing.

00:23:16   And eventually it got to the point

00:23:18   where I guess it was stable,

00:23:19   but they're probably motivated to replace it

00:23:21   because it was old and crusty and never really worked right.

00:23:23   And they had rung out most of the bugs,

00:23:25   but it was still probably like not easy to change

00:23:28   or add features to for like, you know,

00:23:29   handoff or whatever the hell.

00:23:30   I don't even know if that was a,

00:23:32   what their motivation for discovery,

00:23:34   with us, but I just said every time they've gone and replaced some part of the system

00:23:37   with some newer thing, that's something you have to do periodically. You just got to not

00:23:41   screw it up. Like, the idea behind the effort was good, the execution was bad. So I really

00:23:47   hope that if not DiscoveryD, that something else comes back because it's not like they're

00:23:52   replacing these things for the health. There was motivation behind it, it's just they just

00:23:55   botched the execution.

00:23:56   Yeah, we'll also put a link in the show notes to a friend of the show, Craig Hockenberry,

00:24:01   talked about this. It's a little bit strong on the language because Craig is a little perturbed,

00:24:05   but it's a really good write-up as to what went wrong with Discovery D and why.

00:24:09   All right, shall I go next Jon, or would you prefer to go next?

00:24:13   No, you're up, Casey.

00:24:14   All right, because I didn't have a lot of time to, or didn't spend a lot of time thinking about

00:24:19   this, my selection is...

00:24:20   You had my entire Discovery D rant.

00:24:22   Fair enough. You know, the first thing I'm thankful for, which I'm really, really excited

00:24:28   about is actually live photos. I really, really, really enjoy live photos. You can make an

00:24:34   argument that it's gimmicky, and maybe it is, and maybe in a few years I'll think it's

00:24:38   silly. But sitting here now, I love live photos. Being able to have a little bit of context

00:24:44   around what's happening, especially when you have a really young child in the house, is

00:24:48   really, really awesome. And there's been a couple of live photos that I've gotten just

00:24:53   by pure happenstance that have been really awesome. Like once I took a picture of Declan

00:24:58   when we were out to eat and he decided to make this like just mammoth yawn right as I'd taken

00:25:06   the picture so you can see this like huge yawn as he's eating at this restaurant. And it sounds

00:25:12   silly describing it, but it was just the funniest live photo. And I don't know that I would have

00:25:19   captured that moment had it not been for the fact that what I thought was a picture was

00:25:23   actually a very very short movie. And so I love live photos.

00:25:27   The only thing I don't like about live photos is now it makes me question whether or not I want to use my big

00:25:32   semi-fancy camera or my iPhone to take pictures. And generally speaking I do reach for the big camera,

00:25:39   but it doesn't make me feel guilty anymore

00:25:42   if I don't have the big camera handy when I'm trying to capture a shot because I love having that context.

00:25:46   Do you have burst mode on your big fancy camera?

00:25:48   I do.

00:25:49   I never ever ever use it though.

00:25:51   Blast away and make your own live pictures.

00:25:53   Well, and maybe that's one way of looking at it, but I very rarely shoot in burst mode.

00:25:58   And the handful of times I've done it, it has come out pretty well.

00:26:02   But then I'd have to post-process it, turn it into a movie, and blah blah blah.

00:26:06   Not to say that this is egregious, but it's pretty magical just whipping out the thing

00:26:11   that the phone that's in your pocket and snapping a picture and having that little bit of context

00:26:17   behind it. I just really, really love it.

00:26:19   Kind of in that vein, I'd like to – this is not on my list. Sorry, Jon. This is par

00:26:23   for the course. Go ahead.

00:26:24   Yes, that's exactly right.

00:26:25   I'd like to add to that just how incredibly good the video is from the iPhone 6S and 6S+.

00:26:31   This year, I finally, after seven years, upgraded my main good camera from a Canon 5D Mark II

00:26:38   to the Sony A7R II.

00:26:40   And it's a fantastic camera in every way,

00:26:42   and I love this thing.

00:26:43   I love the pictures I get out of the Sony.

00:26:45   It's incredible.

00:26:47   It is incredibly expensive too, so it's not for everybody.

00:26:49   But when you buy a camera every seven years,

00:26:51   it can be justifiable somehow.

00:26:54   But anyway, love this camera.

00:26:57   And it shoots 4K video,

00:26:59   and it's one of the relatively few cameras

00:27:02   on the market today that shoots 4K video.

00:27:04   They're getting more and more numerous,

00:27:06   but there's still relatively few in number.

00:27:08   But the iPhone 6S came out and the 6S also shoots 4K video.

00:27:13   And having shot now with both of them a reasonable amount,

00:27:17   the difference between them is not that big.

00:27:19   Like here's this camera that's being hailed

00:27:22   as one of the best cameras overall ever made

00:27:26   and one of the best cameras that can shoot 4K.

00:27:28   And the camera that's in every iPhone

00:27:32   of the current generation shoots 4K video

00:27:35   that to my eye as a casual observer

00:27:38   is almost just as good.

00:27:40   The quality you can get out of the iPhone in 4K mode,

00:27:44   granted, it isn't 60 frames a second, it's only 30.

00:27:47   I don't know what shoots 4K at 60 frames a second,

00:27:49   but I've never seen anything that offered that.

00:27:52   It seems like 4K everywhere these days

00:27:54   is basically limited to 30.

00:27:55   But if you're willing to deal with the lower frame rate,

00:27:57   it looks incredible just to have that resolution.

00:28:01   It really does look like a moving photo.

00:28:03   It looks like a real live photo.

00:28:05   And live photos are great, like you know,

00:28:08   they're great for when you didn't intend to take a video.

00:28:11   But when you do intend to take a video,

00:28:13   the quality you can get out of the iPhone camera

00:28:15   in 4K mode is just ridiculously good.

00:28:18   And for people like us who have kids

00:28:21   and get all sentimental about how cute our kids are,

00:28:23   it is just stunning how much this captures life

00:28:28   in the way it looks in real life.

00:28:30   And I'm very, very glad to have this

00:28:32   because almost every parent at some point says,

00:28:36   you know, I really wish I shot more video.

00:28:37   I really wish I shot more photos.

00:28:39   And I've been that way for video, certainly.

00:28:42   But we shoot plenty of photos,

00:28:43   but we don't shoot enough video.

00:28:45   - Yeah, I'm the same way.

00:28:46   I reflect and look back on the pictures and video

00:28:51   I've taken in the last year,

00:28:52   'cause Declan's just over a year old now,

00:28:54   and I couldn't agree more that I've taken

00:28:56   a lot of really great pictures.

00:28:58   I'm really proud of the pictures I've taken,

00:28:59   but I haven't shot near enough video.

00:29:01   And I think that part of the problem is, is that it's not often, especially early in life,

00:29:07   like super early in life, that I can capture something that's quote-unquote "remarkable"

00:29:12   as it's happening.

00:29:13   And I think that that's the wrong attitude to have, and I should be better about just

00:29:16   capturing everyday life, because it'll be interesting to look at, maybe not in a year

00:29:20   or five years, but maybe in 10 or 20 years.

00:29:23   And so I'm trying to train myself to start taking video of things that seem really boring.

00:29:28   And like you were saying, Marco, I really, really like that this camera that's in my

00:29:35   pocket always takes 4K video, which is kind of an insurance policy, right?

00:29:42   There will eventually be video that is crisper than 4K, but sitting here in 2015, 4K is going

00:29:49   to look pretty good for a while, I think.

00:29:51   And so I'm really happy that I'm getting really high-resolution video out of the camera I

00:29:56   I am most likely to have on me always.

00:29:58   - Yeah, and it really does not look like

00:30:01   like an inferior quality camera.

00:30:03   Like when you're shooting 4K with the iPhone,

00:30:05   it does not seem inferior quality at all.

00:30:08   In fact, like, you know, compared to my like,

00:30:10   you know, quote, real camera,

00:30:11   which granted is not a dedicated video camera,

00:30:12   but a lot of people use these things for video.

00:30:14   The things like the audio are actually better.

00:30:16   The audio is way better on the iPhone.

00:30:18   The autofocus is way better on the iPhone.

00:30:21   It shouldn't be, there's no reason why it should be.

00:30:23   Hardware wise, the Sony kicks its butt in so many ways.

00:30:25   But the iPhone just has really nice automatic defaults

00:30:29   and does really good audio processing such that

00:30:31   you, with no effort, you get pretty great video

00:30:35   out of the iPhone compared to this professional camera.

00:30:39   It's amazing how good it is.

00:30:41   So yeah, I'm very thankful for how good the 6S is

00:30:45   at shooting video because it is making me shoot more video

00:30:48   and for parenting nostalgia purposes, that is just awesome.

00:30:53   - Don't forget to take videos of your kids screaming

00:30:55   and crying because we tend to take pictures of kids when they're smiling or happy, take

00:30:59   pictures of them when they're crying, and take videos so they can hear the noise that

00:31:02   they made because they won't believe you when you try to describe it. And sometimes it's

00:31:06   nice to look back when you're far, far distant from it and say, "I remember that terrible

00:31:09   screeching that didn't leave our house for X number." Declan always looks like he's smiling.

00:31:14   But anyway, at some point he has to be screaming and crying. Capture that.

00:31:17   Yeah, yeah, we try to occasionally. It's funny you bring that up because just before the

00:31:21   show we were talking we when we were at my parents this past weekend we did like

00:31:27   a literally five or ten minute photo shoot with them where they took a bunch

00:31:31   of pictures of the three of us that would maybe be that will maybe use in

00:31:33   our Christmas card this year and I think the pictures look good but Declan's kind

00:31:38   of like nonplussed about the whole thing and you know oftentimes he's pretty

00:31:43   easily it's pretty easy to make him pretty happy and in these he's kind of

00:31:47   like whatever. And Aaron and I were discussing, well, you know, that is a better representation

00:31:52   of real life, you know, because he's usually a fairly chipper kid, but he's not always,

00:31:56   you know, super excited about everything. And so we were debating and didn't really

00:31:59   reach a conclusion before before I came in to record. Yeah, maybe we should just use

00:32:03   one of those and that's okay. And so well, I'm trying to do better about capturing the

00:32:09   annoyed Declan and the upset Declan as time goes on. All right, John, I think it's your

00:32:15   turn.

00:32:16   Well, you might think since I suggested this exercise that I have some really clever, interesting

00:32:21   things on my list, but I don't.

00:32:22   That was your guys' job.

00:32:23   I'm just the idea man.

00:32:27   So my first one might be a surprise, but I don't think so based on what I've talked about.

00:32:32   It's kind of like Marcos is like a qualified recommendation, but it is the first thing

00:32:36   I thought of.

00:32:37   The first tech thing I'm thankful for this year is photos.

00:32:40   Apple's photo thing where they finally gave you a way to have access to all your photos

00:32:44   everywhere and to put all your photos up in the cloud and charge you money for the storage

00:32:49   but the prices are not so bad.

00:32:51   I've had a lot of weird issues with it but I have to say all of the bugs and stuff that

00:32:56   I've encountered so far have been delays not roadblocks.

00:33:00   Like it's done weird things and it's been spooky and it's been weird but always eventually

00:33:04   at the end of it I come out the other side with a, as far as I'm aware, completely functioning

00:33:08   and working library that is all synced up and is in the cloud everywhere and is available

00:33:13   on phones and now on my Mac, the photo actually performs in an acceptable manner.

00:33:18   Most of the time still ignores my spacebar about 50% of the time when I hit it.

00:33:22   But anyway, it's got a long way to go, but I like the fact that this is a fairly new

00:33:25   program that's already been updated and the update has added minor features and improved

00:33:30   performance and I'm just so glad that Apple finally has gotten their photo library up

00:33:36   online and onto their servers and, you know, not stranded on one machine.

00:33:41   They still have a long way to go when it comes to dealing with families and multiple photo

00:33:46   libraries, but this is supposed to be a list of things I'm thankful for, not complaints.

00:33:50   So photos is my number one.

00:33:52   So this really does get the John Syracuse a seal of approval?

00:33:55   Wow.

00:33:56   Well, it's just because it's so much better than iPhoto.

00:33:59   And a lot of people use other services like they use Google or Amazon's cloud storage

00:34:04   or whatever.

00:34:05   I'm not saying this is the only solution for you.

00:34:06   In fact, it's probably not even the best solution for the Mac.

00:34:08   everything that I've heard Google's photo solution seems to be much more

00:34:11   reliable and have more features and be really cool I just we've always had our

00:34:15   photos in iPhoto and so photos is the obvious and only you know transition to

00:34:20   stay in the Apple you know completely the Apple ecosystem and iPhoto like

00:34:25   towards the ends of his life was really terrible but in the beginning and middle

00:34:29   it was pretty good especially when our library was smaller so I'm glad that

00:34:33   Apple's continued to develop a program that essentially did import my iPhoto

00:34:36   library in a sane way. I had to coalesce my ratings down into favorites, but I'm okay

00:34:41   with that. Yeah, so I still have plenty of complaints about it, but it's just so long

00:34:47   for them to do the obvious thing. We all talked about Everpix and Merced when it went out

00:34:52   of business and now Apple's finally getting including, so yeah, we can upload all their

00:34:56   pictures and make it so that they don't have to all be on the device, but you have access

00:35:00   to them everywhere. Good idea, Apple.

00:35:03   Now I've been very trigger shy on photos.

00:35:06   I am a pretty devout user of Picture Life, which I really, really like.

00:35:12   And I've been afraid to really get into photos just because, I don't know, it's

00:35:18   always felt like I didn't want to trust Apple with this because I don't want it

00:35:22   to go bad.

00:35:23   Even though I have backups, like I have Picture Life and I have two or three copies locally.

00:35:27   But it just scared me.

00:35:28   But to hear that it pretty much has a John Syracuse's seal of approval, that might change

00:35:31   my tune.

00:35:32   You shouldn't though, all I would say is it's like online backup.

00:35:35   You just have to have, everyone should be doing this.

00:35:38   If you have your photo library, there should be some place that you upload it to.

00:35:41   If it's picture life, if it's Google Photos, if it's Apple's Photos thing, wherever it

00:35:44   is, the whole point should be that, worst case scenario, you should still have online

00:35:49   backup and you should still have local backup and you should still have local clones.

00:35:52   But I like having yet another thing that is actually dedicated to photos.

00:35:57   Despite all those things I just described like using backblaze or you know time machine or super duper clones

00:36:03   You know you're backing up over your network to whatever you write

00:36:07   On top of that to have another thing that says oh and by the way

00:36:11   Every time you take a picture with your phone it gets uploaded to this cloud thing and then it gets downloaded onto your Mac and

00:36:15   Every time you import photos from an SD card onto your Mac it gets uploaded into the cloud and download onto your

00:36:20   Onto your phone, and you don't have to have all your photos everywhere

00:36:23   But on a particular Mac you can't say please download your photos everywhere the one with the big hard drive

00:36:27   So having that extra system on top of all your backups just makes me feel better about

00:36:32   pictures.

00:36:33   So it doesn't really matter if it's photos or picture life or you go back in time and

00:36:36   use Everpix or another product that we might discuss in the later part of the show if we

00:36:41   don't go long on this Thanksgiving stuff.

00:36:44   Yeah, I'm not specifically endorsing photos.

00:36:47   I'm endorsing the idea of Apple doing the obvious thing for photo services and it not

00:36:51   being terrible.

00:36:52   Yeah, and you know, and we had been talking and many people have been talking before they

00:36:56   announced this, of like, there are other various photo solutions, things like PhotoStream before

00:37:01   this, which is kind of like a half solution, and we've been calling them to do something

00:37:06   like this forever, but no one thought they actually would. And then, not only did they

00:37:11   do it, but it was good. Even from version 1.0, it wasn't perfect in 1.0, but it was

00:37:17   pretty good, and the imperfections were only limited really to the front-end app. The actual

00:37:23   end, the storage and the syncing engine, in my experience, and from what I gather, I think

00:37:28   most people's experience worked solidly from day one.

00:37:32   Well, there was always, like I said, there was bugs, but as long as they're not intractable.

00:37:37   A lot of times, early on, people are like, "I just have a bunch of black squares," or

00:37:40   in my thing, it would be like, "It thinks it has to re-upload everything, and it's mistaken

00:37:44   about that," or all sorts of problems where either operations are taking a long time,

00:37:50   or a couple over like crashing in the middle of the import or whatever.

00:37:53   But the bottom line is, is if you just kept trying, eventually it reached a point where

00:37:57   it settled down, which is not true of, for example, the time machine and spotlight thing

00:38:00   that I described fighting with last time that never settled down.

00:38:04   The best you can say about photos is sometimes it screwed up.

00:38:06   1.0 had weird bugs, but in my personal experience is I never had to nuke and pave, right?

00:38:12   Some people did.

00:38:13   So, you know, obviously it's not without its bugs, but from my personal experiences, even

00:38:18   Even when it was weird, it just eventually powered through with me not doing anything

00:38:22   other than maybe repeatedly trying and settles into a state now where when I take a photo

00:38:28   or when my wife takes a photo because the library is hers, I don't want to get into

00:38:31   this, anyway, on the phone and then I go to the Mac, eventually the picture shows up and

00:38:36   that's all I ask for.

00:38:37   - Again, you guys keep naming stuff I like too, that really the Photos app is very, very

00:38:43   good and it was very good since 1.0 and it's only gotten better with 1.1 and I still do

00:38:49   all of my editing first for photos that I shoot with the big camera, I still do editing

00:38:55   first in Lightroom and then I kind of like pick and edit in Lightroom and then export

00:39:00   as full quality JPEG into photos because I don't care for photos editing tools too much

00:39:06   but for iPhone shot pictures, they're fine and on the iPhone, I like having that ability

00:39:12   and you know my fancy pictures,

00:39:15   once I do like a first pass edit with Lightroom,

00:39:18   I'm probably never gonna touch them after that.

00:39:20   So like, you know, just do it there,

00:39:22   export into Photo Library, then it's faster

00:39:24   'cause it doesn't have this giant RAW file to deal with.

00:39:26   And it's nice, it really is nice.

00:39:28   I have no regrets about Photo Library.

00:39:33   Our second sponsor this week is Automattic.

00:39:36   Automattic is a connected car adapter

00:39:37   that plugs into your car's diagnostic port,

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00:39:47   and get 20% off.

00:39:49   Now, automatic can help you in several ways.

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00:39:54   any kind of engine ECU error,

00:39:56   automatic can tell you through the phone

00:39:58   exactly what the error is,

00:40:00   and in many cases let you clear the error

00:40:02   if it's something temporary, like your gas cap was open.

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00:40:06   It can tell you things like how efficiently you're driving.

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00:40:11   if you're like hitting the brakes too hard,

00:40:12   hitting the gas too hard.

00:40:13   It can also tell you a log of your trips

00:40:15   if you wanted to track that.

00:40:16   So you can do things like have expense reports

00:40:18   from your driving.

00:40:19   You can just see where you go the most if you want.

00:40:22   It can keep your parking location

00:40:24   so you never lose your car in a parking lot.

00:40:26   If you have an accident and it detects that through the port

00:40:28   it can even call emergency services for you

00:40:30   if you are unable to.

00:40:31   It can really do quite a bit.

00:40:33   Now they also have an app store with Automattic.

00:40:35   Automattic.com/apps you can see over 20 apps so far,

00:40:38   more being added all the time.

00:40:40   you can use your car's data in all kinds of different ways.

00:40:43   So for example, they have a trigger with IFTTT,

00:40:46   if this then that, so that you can build recipes

00:40:48   for things like, turn on my Nest thermostat

00:40:51   when I'm close to home.

00:40:52   They also have apps for things like Concur and FreshBooks

00:40:55   for invoices and expense reports,

00:40:58   Pebble Watch integration, License Plus if you have

00:41:01   a teenager who's learning how to drive

00:41:03   and you wanna kinda track their driving

00:41:05   and make sure that they are driving in a sane,

00:41:07   calm, safe way, you can do that with this.

00:41:10   There's all sorts of things you can do

00:41:12   with the automatic apps and the automatic device.

00:41:14   And of course developers, check this out

00:41:16   because you can do a lot here too.

00:41:17   They have a whole API using OAuth2, REST API,

00:41:21   check it out, very, very easy to use.

00:41:22   Now, automatic is normally 100 bucks

00:41:25   and there's no subscription fees.

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00:41:31   You don't have to pay for the service every month.

00:41:33   So normally this price upfront is 100 bucks.

00:41:35   They have a link, if you go to automatic.com/ATP,

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00:41:47   and a 45-day risk-free return policy.

00:41:50   Check it out at automatic.com/atp.

00:41:53   Thanks a lot.

00:41:54   - All right.

00:41:55   Marco, do you wanna go again,

00:41:56   or do we wanna try to reverse the order here?

00:41:59   - As a snake draft?

00:42:00   No, Marco goes next.

00:42:01   All right, all right.

00:42:02   - Okay.

00:42:03   My number two, after all your other,

00:42:07   I gotta have like 10 now.

00:42:08   - After you're 1.2, 1.3.

00:42:11   - So my next one on the list, Jon,

00:42:13   is the continued growth of podcasting.

00:42:17   I have made, I have really focused my career recently

00:42:22   on podcasting on a number of fronts.

00:42:24   You know, we do this podcast,

00:42:26   I have the podcast with my wife, Top Four,

00:42:28   I have the podcast with Underscore David Smith

00:42:30   called Under the Radar,

00:42:31   and of course I make a podcast app called Overcast.

00:42:34   I really, see Casey, this is how you plug things.

00:42:36   Now I'm really, I'm just very thankful that this industry

00:42:41   continues to not only exist and be healthy,

00:42:43   but to thrive and to grow.

00:42:46   I really, I love podcasting.

00:42:48   I love it as a listener, I love it as a producer,

00:42:51   I love it as a programmer, it is great.

00:42:53   There is tons of opportunity as a programmer,

00:42:56   as a listener, podcaster just in my life.

00:42:59   I've been a podcast listener for long before

00:43:02   I was really involved in them,

00:43:03   and I just love listening to podcasts.

00:43:06   I don't have to explain that to most people

00:43:08   listening to this probably.

00:43:09   And also as a podcaster, I love the act of podcasting.

00:43:13   And I was, I kinda had this tweet vomiting,

00:43:16   what was it, tweet storm, what do they call it

00:43:17   when you just tweet too much?

00:43:18   - Tweet vomiting, I think that's it, you got it.

00:43:20   - Yeah, yeah.

00:43:21   So I tweeted all over the place earlier today about,

00:43:24   I've been pulling back a lot from blogging recently

00:43:28   because the expectations and the reactions

00:43:32   that you get out of blogging, for me,

00:43:34   have become just really negative. Whenever I've blogged about anything substantial recently,

00:43:40   I have often regretted it afterwards because the amount and the type of attention that

00:43:46   results from it is not good for me. It's not pleasant. It's not satisfying. It actually

00:43:53   just feels like a burden and has resulted in a lot of misunderstanding, a lot of tension,

00:43:59   a lot of flames and a lot of sensationalism that I just do not want.

00:44:05   Blogging also takes a long time. You know, writing is difficult. If you don't write,

00:44:09   you might not realize, but writing is really quite difficult and time consuming, especially

00:44:14   if you're trying to do it well. It's very, very hard to really do well. If I wanted to

00:44:20   do things, like if I wanted to write this as a blog post of just like, here I am talking

00:44:24   about how great podcasting is compared to blogging, this would take me probably four

00:44:29   hours to write as a blog post, and it wouldn't say it as well. Meanwhile, in a podcast, I

00:44:35   can, basically with no preparation, spew out random thoughts like this for about four minutes

00:44:41   and have it all covered and have expressed pretty much all the same ideas, possibly even

00:44:47   better, in a more informal way that you people listening to this can hear me as a human being.

00:44:54   You know me from the context of the rest of the show and for any other shows you've listened

00:44:57   that I've been on, you kind of give me the benefit

00:44:59   of the doubt because you have some sense

00:45:01   of my personality from this,

00:45:03   and it's just a much more humane medium.

00:45:06   So with podcasting, I don't get many flames.

00:45:09   I hardly ever get any kind of negativity

00:45:11   about things I say on a podcast.

00:45:13   I'm able to get out way more ideas per unit of time,

00:45:18   effort put into it, and it just feels better.

00:45:22   It's hard to explain in full how it feels,

00:45:26   but I just think for me it is right now

00:45:30   a more natural communication form and a safer one

00:45:33   because I'm kind of burnt out on the negativity

00:45:36   that I get whenever I write anything.

00:45:38   This isn't to say that I'm going to stop writing,

00:45:40   but I've certainly dramatically slowed down

00:45:42   and it's no coincidence.

00:45:43   As I do more podcasts, I write less

00:45:45   because I just find podcasting works better

00:45:49   for me right now at this point in my life.

00:45:51   - Yeah, I agree.

00:45:52   I've really been phenomenally lucky

00:45:54   to have been a part of neutral of this show of analog. My other show on Relay FM with

00:46:01   Mike Hurley.

00:46:02   Good job, Casey. Wait a plug.

00:46:04   Finally.

00:46:05   All right.

00:46:06   We keep setting you up for the shot. You just keep walking away.

00:46:08   Wow, that's both of you with a sports metaphor. I'm very proud of you both. Anyway, so I've

00:46:14   been very thankful to be a part of this and to be able to participate. And, you know,

00:46:18   As we've discussed some on the show and I've discussed quite a bit on analog, I have always

00:46:25   felt some modicum of guilt for kind of having just found my way on here by accident.

00:46:31   [music]

00:46:32   But no, the community's been really good to me and it's been a really phenomenal—I've

00:46:38   been phenomenally lucky to be a part of this and a part of the community that we're in.

00:46:43   Maybe next year we can finally convince you that, like, you didn't--you aren't just, like, here accidentally.

00:46:48   Like, you are a host of this show. You are one of three hosts of this show.

00:46:52   You are not just some guy who we stuck in a chair. Just sit there while we talk.

00:46:56   [laughs]

00:46:57   Yeah, on an infinite time scale, perhaps I'll believe that. But, um, but anyway, I can hear Jon rolling his eyes right now.

00:47:03   Um--

00:47:04   We're all here accidentally is what I was thinking.

00:47:06   [laughs]

00:47:07   That's true, actually.

00:47:09   That's true.

00:47:10   But no, but it's been really phenomenal and I couldn't be more thankful.

00:47:15   I was going to make this joke in a really cheesy way, but I'm going to say it genuinely.

00:47:19   I couldn't be more thankful to be doing it with you two fine gentlemen.

00:47:22   And I'm really, I'm so unbelievably proud of the work that we've done here and unbelievably

00:47:28   thankful that it's gone on as long as it has and that any of you listening to this right

00:47:33   now have stuck around and have listened to the show as long as you have.

00:47:38   So thank you to you guys and to everyone listening

00:47:41   because this has been really phenomenal.

00:47:44   - I think I would write more if I didn't have a job.

00:47:46   (laughing)

00:47:48   - Amen, brother.

00:47:49   - 'Cause Marco's right that like, you know,

00:47:51   if you podcast more, like you can get a lot of ideas out

00:47:54   that you would otherwise have to write up

00:47:56   and you feel like, well, I already said it on the podcast,

00:47:57   it's like out of my system.

00:47:58   You feel like if you have something

00:47:59   you just need to express, right?

00:48:02   But mainly for me, I feel like it's just,

00:48:05   it's not enough hours in the day.

00:48:06   And it's like Marco said,

00:48:07   just so much more efficient to just ramble for a couple minutes on a podcast and you

00:48:11   feel like, "Well, that got that out of my system," when it would take way longer to

00:48:15   write it in a nice form.

00:48:16   But I feel like if I had, if I didn't have to go to work every day, I would have all

00:48:21   those extra hours, and I probably would do the thing that Marco's done it occasionally

00:48:24   and so have I, although less so now that I don't write anything anymore practically.

00:48:29   But where you either talk about something on a podcast and that inspires you to write

00:48:33   it up, or you write something on your blog and that inspires you to talk about it on

00:48:37   the podcast. That synergy I still enjoy. I just never have time for the part where you

00:48:41   write anything.

00:48:42   [laughter]

00:48:43   fair enough. All right, so does that make it my turn I take it?

00:48:48   It does.

00:48:49   All right, so I'd actually, this is a little bit of a cop-out, but I have other options

00:48:53   as well. I actually am super thankful for my big semi-fancy camera. I have an Olympus

00:49:00   OM-D E-M10, which is a terrible name. It is a micro four-thirds camera, and for a long

00:49:06   especially after Marco and Tiff and Aaron and I got reacquainted after Marco and I lost

00:49:12   touch for a long time.

00:49:14   I've always been, I don't know if jealous is the word I'm looking for, but I've always

00:49:18   been intrigued by really nice camera equipment.

00:49:23   And I've always fancied myself, like interested in photography, but I wouldn't say I've ever

00:49:28   been particularly great at it.

00:49:30   But right before Declan was born, we finally bought this Micro Four Thirds camera, which

00:49:36   was a fair bit of money. I mean, it was something like $1,500 for the camera and a couple of

00:49:40   lenses, or the body and a couple of lenses. And I wasn't sure if it was really worth it,

00:49:44   and Aaron wasn't sure if it was really worth it because, you know, we had, I think, a 6,

00:49:48   an iPhone 6 at the time, which takes, it takes and took really great pictures. But I am so

00:49:54   thankful for big digital cameras still being a thing because having a camera with, with

00:50:02   glass that's bigger than a fingertip just makes for some incredible pictures. And it's

00:50:11   been really awesome to see some of the pictures I've been able to capture of not only Declan,

00:50:16   but my whole family and extended family through this camera that really in the grand scheme

00:50:20   of things is not that terribly much money. And so I'm extraordinarily thankful that it

00:50:24   exists and I'm extraordinarily thankful that I bought one and that I've been able to make

00:50:33   some decent pictures come out of this camera.

00:50:36   And so digital photography in general, not just live photos, that's what I'm thankful

00:50:40   for.

00:50:41   Yeah, I'm still jealous of all your nice cameras, but I felt like I'm going through my old photo

00:50:47   library because I was gathering photos for holiday things as you do, and also playing

00:50:53   with the performance of photos and the new iMac and enjoying the fact that I can scroll

00:50:57   and do stuff.

00:50:59   Although I got it, let me put an item in the notes about my latest photo complaints, because

00:51:02   I don't want to do it now, but I have one.

00:51:04   But anyway, we'll see that for the less thankful episode next week.

00:51:06   Yeah, back to our normally scheduled complaining.

00:51:11   But like as I scroll backwards in time towards when like my oldest child was a baby, you

00:51:17   do see the quality of the pictures go down.

00:51:20   I think it's going to be less pronounced for Declan because I think like, you know, the

00:51:25   curve is starting to level off a little bit because there's sort of the limit of the human

00:51:31   visual system and what feature sizes you can resolve at typical distances and blah, blah,

00:51:36   blah.

00:51:37   But we got our very first digital camera ever before my son was born, my first child.

00:51:44   And it was not very good quality because those were early days and you can really see it.

00:51:50   So it's kind of a shame I can't go back in time with a fancier camera.

00:51:52   And I think, well, maybe I'm thinking the same thing now with the current pictures I'm

00:51:55   taking with my kid with my camera that does not cost as much as a good used car.

00:52:00   And they're fine, they're good, but I can tell the difference between my camera and

00:52:06   a fancy camera.

00:52:07   Like, it's impossible not to be able to tell the difference, especially if there is not

00:52:11   100% blazing sunlight on a clear day, then all of a sudden I can tell the difference.

00:52:16   So I very often do consider buying fancy camera and maybe someday I will, but for now I'm

00:52:21   limping along with my silly super zoom cameras and my iPhone.

00:52:26   So that's not that bad.

00:52:27   I'm trying to figure out what used car that's pretty good you could get for $1500.

00:52:32   Honda Accord.

00:52:34   Of course.

00:52:36   Of course.

00:52:37   Alright, so John, what else are you thankful for?

00:52:39   Alright, my next item on the list is probably not surprising and boring to everybody who

00:52:45   who is a tech nerd, including both of you,

00:52:47   but I put it on my list anyway because I feel like

00:52:50   this was not the summer of George,

00:52:52   this was the year of big SSDs in my house.

00:52:54   SSDs have been around forever.

00:52:57   Everyone's been like, "Oh, you gotta get an SSD,

00:52:58   it'll change your life, blah, blah, blah."

00:52:59   But I'm like, I'm not interested

00:53:01   until I can put all my stuff on it.

00:53:02   Even when Fusion Drive came out,

00:53:04   which I think was a really great idea,

00:53:05   and from all accounts has worked really well,

00:53:06   I'm like, but for me, I just wanna hold out

00:53:09   until I can put all my crap on one SSD.

00:53:11   I remember on podcasts many years ago,

00:53:13   Was it this podcast? Was it some other one?

00:53:15   I was like, I just want to hold out for a one terabyte SSD.

00:53:18   Like, oh, good luck.

00:53:19   It was going to be so expensive.

00:53:20   You can get one today, but it's like thousands of dollars.

00:53:22   Like, yeah, I just want to wait for them to be cheap.

00:53:24   Oh, well, you're gonna be waiting a while.

00:53:25   Well, I did.

00:53:26   I waited a really long time.

00:53:27   And eventually one terabyte SSDs became

00:53:30   less than ridiculously expensive.

00:53:32   Still very expensive.

00:53:34   But as soon as they came down in price

00:53:36   to like three digit prices, you know, 500, $600,

00:53:39   I got one for my Mac.

00:53:42   And it made a big difference, as you would imagine,

00:53:44   from spinning this to an SSD.

00:53:45   But the big thing for me is that they are big SSDs

00:53:48   that I can fit all of my stuff.

00:53:50   And the size of all of my stuff

00:53:52   has changed a lot over the years.

00:53:54   And like you're always trying to keep

00:53:57   the all of my stuff size somewhere within the bounds

00:54:00   of economical hard drive size,

00:54:02   but hard drives started getting so big,

00:54:03   like one terabyte, two terabyte, three terabyte,

00:54:05   four terabyte spinning disks.

00:54:07   It was like, oh no,

00:54:08   I gotta make sure my stuff doesn't fill up.

00:54:09   Well, it turns out my stuff has been growing more slowly

00:54:12   and my stuff comfortably fits in one terabyte.

00:54:15   So now I have a terabyte SSD.

00:54:16   When I bought the iMac, it has a terabyte SSD.

00:54:19   And now finally the two main computers in the house

00:54:23   are all SSD out of all of our stuff on them.

00:54:25   And I'm very happy about it.

00:54:27   - Yeah, I held out a really long time

00:54:30   before getting an SSD because the first computer I had

00:54:34   with an SSD was my old work computer,

00:54:36   which I got in the middle of 2012,

00:54:40   was a late 2011 Hi-Rez Antigler 15-inch MacBook Pro. And I had always thought, as I often

00:54:48   do with these things, "Oh, I'm sure it's faster, I'm sure it's great, but it can't possibly

00:54:54   make that much, oh my God, it makes that much of a difference." It's just night and day.

00:55:00   And because of that, I'm still rocking one of those, an identical computer to that work

00:55:04   one except with a platter hard drive as my personal computer, and I never touch the thing

00:55:10   because it's just unusable,

00:55:11   because it has a platter hard drive.

00:55:13   Get yourself an SSD, even if you get a little tiny one,

00:55:15   and you have to put all your other data elsewhere.

00:55:18   Just, it makes a world of difference.

00:55:20   Definitely spend the money.

00:55:22   - Our final sponsor this week is Bushell.

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00:57:00   Thanks a lot to Bushell for sponsoring our show.

00:57:03   - All right, Marco, what's next for you?

00:57:05   So next for me is Slack.

00:57:07   - Interesting, okay.

00:57:08   - That's a good one, I would have put that on there

00:57:10   if I had thought of it.

00:57:11   - Yeah, I agree with that.

00:57:12   - So first of all, Slack is really just good.

00:57:14   As a product, Slack is good.

00:57:17   It is like, when I first saw it, I thought,

00:57:19   well, that's just IRC, just fancied up IRC.

00:57:24   And that's true, it is just fancied up IRC,

00:57:27   but it's really good.

00:57:28   Turns out fancied up IRC is really nice.

00:57:31   - I think the key feature is not that it's,

00:57:33   like fancy. IRC, the key feature is that like it is a name brand company thing.

00:57:38   You can get the Slack app for the platform of your choice and it is Slack.

00:57:42   IRC has always been like, I guess you like get an IRC client or something.

00:57:46   I don't really know how your client works.

00:57:48   Just type slash something like, you know, it was like a client.

00:57:51   Just just get Slack and then you've got it and you don't have to worry about

00:57:54   people figuring out it's all point and click and limited amount of command line

00:57:58   silliness.

00:57:59   Yeah.

00:57:59   And IRC, you know, really it has a lot of shortcomings compared to Slack, you

00:58:03   you know, not just the client thing,

00:58:04   but just like the complexity, the geeky roots of it,

00:58:07   and the limitations of it not being persistent

00:58:10   on the client, like you know, it's not, yeah.

00:58:12   IRC has its place, for sure, but Slack does too.

00:58:17   And I think Slack is by far the more friendly option

00:58:19   of the two, and it also just has way more features,

00:58:21   and it's pretty nice.

00:58:22   Anyway, so I like Slack a lot, and I like that,

00:58:26   kind of related to earlier how I mentioned

00:58:28   I was kind of worn out from negativity

00:58:32   I've gotten from being so public online, Slack allows me to have these small private

00:58:37   groups of friends that things that I would have previously posted to Twitter, now a lot

00:58:43   of those things are going to Slack. And a lot of the conversations that I'm having,

00:58:48   a lot of the keeping up with friends and what they're doing, a lot more of that is happening

00:58:52   in Slack now than on Twitter for me. And I think that's good because for so long we've

00:58:58   we've had things on the web where the best communication methods on the web were so often

00:59:04   public or at least semi-public, like Facebook, where it's supposed to be private most of

00:59:10   the time, but sometimes you mess up a setting and everything gets public or it's public

00:59:13   by default or whatever. It's nice to have something that is private. I do think there's

00:59:18   a place for those things and there's a balance to be struck. It's nice that we are willing

00:59:24   to explore that balance rather than just make everything public and ad-driven on the entire

00:59:30   internet in every way we communicate. And so it's nice. Having Slack for me has been

00:59:36   a nice kind of, I don't know, like a mental reprieve from everything being in public.

00:59:42   Because the fact is, so many of my friends are people who I've met in this business,

00:59:48   people like you guys who I work with, who I don't live near. It's not like I can

00:59:53   and have lunch with you guys every day,

00:59:56   I work at home for myself.

00:59:58   I have lunch with my wife and my kid and my dog,

01:00:01   but my friend interactions are limited

01:00:02   mostly to online stuff.

01:00:04   So it's nice to have just like a kind of like private,

01:00:06   safe place for that to happen.

01:00:08   And not only does Slack provide that for me,

01:00:11   but from what I hear from a lot of other people,

01:00:13   it provides that to lots of people.

01:00:14   It isn't just like a that's fine for Marco thing,

01:00:17   like a lot of people use Slack this way

01:00:20   in small groups with their friends.

01:00:21   And it's really great for that.

01:00:22   I'm very thankful that such a thing not only exists,

01:00:26   but is getting enough traction to be useful.

01:00:28   - The comedy of this is that, as we record,

01:00:31   today Slack was down for many people for like half the day.

01:00:34   - Yeah.

01:00:35   - I wasn't gonna mention that, but yeah.

01:00:36   - Doesn't matter.

01:00:37   This is the first time I've ever seen downtime.

01:00:40   - This is the honeymoon period

01:00:41   before Marco goes on a big rant

01:00:42   about Slack being a centralized thing

01:00:44   under control by a single company

01:00:45   and how they're screwing all the clients

01:00:47   and messing up their API

01:00:49   and are foisting ads on people who use Stack.

01:00:51   So enjoy it while it let-- no, I'm being negative.

01:00:53   Anyway, I echo everything that Marco said, basically,

01:00:56   like in the big continuum of between public and like I am

01:00:59   is the private thing.

01:01:00   It's like a small group, one on one, completely private.

01:01:03   You have instant message.

01:01:04   And then out in public, you have web forums or comments

01:01:08   or bulletin boards and then later things like Twitter

01:01:10   and stuff like that.

01:01:11   And then Slack is a nice middle ground,

01:01:13   kind of the same middle ground that Google+

01:01:14   was going for but missed, where it's not one to one like I am

01:01:18   and it's not in public, or email for that matter,

01:01:21   and it's not in public like message boards or Twitter,

01:01:24   it's in between and it's nice.

01:01:25   The only downside of course is now that we're all

01:01:27   in a million different slacks because these in between

01:01:29   things are sort of self organizing groups of people

01:01:33   around particular interests or institutions or whatever.

01:01:37   And those circles overlap a lot,

01:01:39   but we have to be in all of them.

01:01:40   If you want to keep up with this group of friends

01:01:42   and that group of friends and that group of friends,

01:01:43   then you're in three slacks that form

01:01:45   this weird Venn diagram.

01:01:46   Sometimes I have trouble keeping track of what slack I said which it was all in the

01:01:52   same application.

01:01:53   It's one stupid single window.

01:01:54   Work on that guys.

01:01:55   You know I like windows.

01:01:57   John Siracusa says, "I need more windows please.

01:02:00   What a surprise."

01:02:01   More than one?

01:02:02   Call me crazy.

01:02:03   I've got a big screen here.

01:02:06   I lose track of where I said things and which group of friends I said them to and who is

01:02:11   on what page about what.

01:02:13   But I think anyway, I think that's a good problem to have and I have liked having this

01:02:16   middle ground, even though it has meant one more place for me to check for things that

01:02:21   have gone on. I am not a Slack completionist, so I don't have that problem. But still, I

01:02:26   do have to. And Slack, to its credit, gives you lots of really cool options for how you

01:02:30   want to be notified and about what. So I like it, too. I'm sad that I didn't put it on my

01:02:38   list. No, I'm the Marco stealing things from other people's lists. I should have thought

01:02:41   of that. Marco is the TIFF.

01:02:44   I completely agree with Slack.

01:02:46   And it doesn't matter who your particular group of friends is or whatever the case may

01:02:51   be, just having a group of people, even be it friends or family, that you can communicate

01:02:57   with often geographically all over the place is just really fantastic.

01:03:02   And one of the things I love about Slack that has in some ways ruined me for like iMessage

01:03:08   and other things is the rich text previews or whatever you call them.

01:03:12   So if you put a link to a tweet into a Slack channel, it will do its best to expand that

01:03:18   tweet and show you the contents of the tweet and maybe even a picture if there's media

01:03:21   attached.

01:03:22   And oh my god, I wish I could have that for iMessage.

01:03:26   That would be so, so useful.

01:03:28   And I really love that feature.

01:03:29   It's such a silly thing, but it makes a world of difference.

01:03:32   Yeah.

01:03:33   So it's my turn.

01:03:34   This is a weird one.

01:03:35   I am super thankful for my lightning to HDMI adapter, which is an odd thing to say. But

01:03:45   this past weekend, as with many weekends in the fall, Aaron and I went to see the University

01:03:53   of Virginia play football. Aaron is a Wahoo. I am actually a Hokie, which means I went

01:03:57   to Virginia Tech. We are big rivals. Just go with it, Marco.

01:04:00   This is like when John talked about Destiny. This is just another language.

01:04:03   Yep.

01:04:04   We're gonna cut this out just like the Cooley stuff, right?

01:04:06   [laughter]

01:04:07   That cuts deep, John. So anyway, so, um, we, so basically we are big rival schools.

01:04:13   So Marco, this is like TIFF going to Michigan. Does that make more sense to you?

01:04:17   Yes. That is the one sports rivalry that I'm familiar with, simply because I grew up in Columbus, so that's...

01:04:22   You couldn't not know about that one.

01:04:25   Fun fact, the correct answer is actually Penn State. But anyway, the point is that...

01:04:28   Wait, what?

01:04:29   ...we went to rival schools. Just let it go.

01:04:31   Wait, wait, like OSU and Penn State are rivals?

01:04:34   Yeah.

01:04:35   Not Michigan?

01:04:36   And Michigan.

01:04:37   Well, no, no, no.

01:04:38   You are right to say Michigan and Ohio State, but in the same conference as Penn State,

01:04:43   both my younger brothers went to Penn State, so that's where my association is.

01:04:49   But anyway, so the point, I bring all this up, because we went tailgating.

01:04:52   Sports.

01:04:53   Yay, sports ball!

01:04:54   So when we went tailgating, you know, we've, over the years, we've been doing this for

01:04:57   few years now. We've upgraded our tailgate setup from, you know, just a grill to a grill

01:05:04   and a kind of okay generator to a grill and a kind of fancy generator and so grill, fancy

01:05:12   generator and TV. And this year, this past weekend actually, it just so happened that

01:05:19   my beloved Virginia Tech Hokies were playing a noon game that I really wanted to watch

01:05:25   and the UVA game was at 3.30.

01:05:27   And so we were tailgating while the Hokies were playing,

01:05:31   and it was on ESPN.

01:05:33   The problem with that is we have an over-the-air antenna

01:05:35   that we bring to the tailgate.

01:05:36   And it's full HD, so we can watch all the local channels

01:05:40   in Charlottesville on HD in the middle of a parking lot,

01:05:44   basically, at the University of Virginia,

01:05:46   which is really incredible.

01:05:47   And I'm thankful for that, too.

01:05:48   But in this case, it was ESPN.

01:05:51   And so what I did was I got on my phone,

01:05:54   And I plugged my phone into the Lightning T HDMI adapter, plugged an HDMI cable from

01:05:58   that into the TV, and we were able to watch my beloved Virginia Tech Hokies lose as we're

01:06:05   sitting in the middle of this parking lot at UVA.

01:06:08   Which is just, I mean, to think about it, like, I remember watching Nickelodeon as a

01:06:12   kid and watching, like, Double Dare and some of those game shows, and you would see that,

01:06:18   like, the grand prize was this god-awful terrible video phone.

01:06:22   But this was like, you know, the early 90s.

01:06:25   And so you could probably only video dial like two other people in the entire country.

01:06:29   But you know, it was this little postage stamp size, like black and white video phone, and

01:06:34   it was amazing.

01:06:37   And I remember thinking to myself, how could that possibly be that you could see video,

01:06:41   you know, on a telephone?

01:06:43   And then fast forward, what is it, 15, 20 years, whatever the case may be, and I'm sitting

01:06:47   in a parking lot with a full 32 inch TV showing a picture that's coming off my cellular telephone.

01:06:53   Like it's just ridiculous that that's a possibility. And so this little obscenely expensive $50

01:07:00   lightning to HDMI adapter made all that possible. That and my data, which of course it was like two

01:07:06   weeks ago that I finally ditched my unlimited data plan, which is perhaps not a good choice.

01:07:09   But so it only cost me like two or three gigs of data for the two or three hours that we were

01:07:14   watching the football game.

01:07:16   So I'm really thankful for that.

01:07:18   You should take your old Apple TV once you get your new one, duct tape it to the back

01:07:22   of your TV, and then you just airplay it.

01:07:23   You can just airplay to it.

01:07:24   You can get a refund on the $50 cable that'll cut into the price of the new Apple TV.

01:07:27   Yeah, and then you could also charge your phone.

01:07:29   Yeah, that makes it so much better.

01:07:31   Well, I was able to charge my phone because one of the ports on the Lightning to HDMI

01:07:35   adapter is another Lightning port.

01:07:37   Oh, I didn't know that.

01:07:39   Yeah, so it passes through power, and since we had a generator right there, I passed through

01:07:43   power to the phone, which worked out really well.

01:07:45   I'm concerned about how much noxious fumes you're inhaling with this generator that's

01:07:49   like running next to your car in a parking lot with a bunch of other people, or is this

01:07:53   a Mr. Fusion where you just put banana peels into it?

01:07:55   No, no, no. So it's actually a very, very fancy generator. It's not ours. It's one of

01:07:59   the guys we tailgate with. But it's an inverter generator, so it emits a perfect sine wave,

01:08:04   which is pretty cool.

01:08:05   No, no, I'm talking about the...

01:08:07   No, no, no, no, no. I know. I understand what you're saying. I was just an aside. So,

01:08:12   But we bring like these 50-foot extension cords. So the thing is like 50 feet away from us,

01:08:16   probably near somebody else. But it's in the other air, right? Okay, I got it.

01:08:20   Not our problem. And strictly speaking, like where we tailgate is actually not, it's not a

01:08:26   parking lot. We're in a little field in front of the astronomy building, EVA, don't be creepy.

01:08:31   And so it's a small field. And we try to point the generator pretty much away from everyone else,

01:08:37   but it's not near us. And yet I remain concerned. How about just like, can't you just have Marco

01:08:42   come and just park his Tesla next to you and use the big battery? If I would kill to have Marco

01:08:48   come to a football game with me that would be amazing. But no, it's not quite that simple.

01:08:53   But I think that would do it though. Like the generator, you just need electric power, right?

01:08:56   So if you go there in an electric car with a huge battery fully charged, that'll do you for

01:09:02   tailgating, right? Probably. Maybe. I mean the TV we use is old so it's probably not very efficient.

01:09:08   But there are times when we'll use like a griddle. So for example this upcoming weekend,

01:09:12   it's our big game. It's Aaron's team and my team playing each other, and this year it's in

01:09:17   Charlottesville, so we're going to go. And we are probably going to use a griddle, which is a heating

01:09:23   element, which is, you know, a million watts. And so for that you'd probably want a generator

01:09:27   because it would drain Marco's Phantom Tesla in like three and a half seconds.

01:09:32   I don't think it would.

01:09:32   Being a little facetious here, but...

01:09:35   Let's do the math. Someone in this chat room, get out of the slide rule.

01:09:38   - Well, for one thing, I know that to charge a Tesla

01:09:43   from like a 40 amp outlet still takes like 10 hours.

01:09:47   You don't realize how much power they have.

01:09:49   Now granted, it's not perfectly efficient

01:09:50   while converting the power, but it takes a ridiculous

01:09:53   amount of power to move a car like that.

01:09:55   - Yeah, you should realize how much power it is just by

01:09:58   is not even doing the math, by thinking about

01:10:00   they're taking this multi-thousand dollar car

01:10:03   and accelerating it and decelerating it

01:10:05   and pushing it through the wind for, you know, 300 miles.

01:10:08   Anyway, this is the future of tailgating.

01:10:10   Mark my words, electric powered pickup trucks,

01:10:12   or the entire bed is a bunch of lithium-ion batteries.

01:10:15   (laughing)

01:10:16   - You're probably right.

01:10:17   Quick real-time follow-up, two quick things.

01:10:19   First of all, it occurred to me that tailgating

01:10:21   is probably a uniquely American thing.

01:10:23   - I sure hope so.

01:10:24   - Maybe the Australians get it,

01:10:25   'cause they're America-lite.

01:10:27   - Oh, God, please email Casey.

01:10:29   - Yeah, please email me.

01:10:30   I didn't mean that in a defensive way,

01:10:31   but I'm screwed now.

01:10:32   Anyway, so what that means is,

01:10:34   So before a football game or egg ball game, depending on how you look at it, a lot of

01:10:39   times what people will do is they will go to the parking lot outside the stadium they're

01:10:44   going to and they will consume adult beverages and, you know, just kind of chat and hang

01:10:50   out and grill food and eat food and do all the things you would expect a bunch of Americans

01:10:55   to do, but do it outside.

01:10:57   And so some people take it a little more seriously, like we do, and bring a generator so they

01:11:00   can watch other football games while they're waiting to watch the football game they want

01:11:04   to see. That's what tailgating is, and the etymology there is because oftentimes you'll

01:11:10   hang out around the tailgate of a pickup truck, although neither of us have pickup trucks.

01:11:15   And the other piece of real-time follow-up, it is not the Lightning to HDMI adapter. The

01:11:18   official name is Lightning Digital AV Adapter, which I would have known had I done my homework.

01:11:23   So John, your turn.

01:11:25   John: This is my last one on my list, unless I can think of something else before we do

01:11:29   the next round, although we're coming to the end of the show anyway, so maybe this will

01:11:31   be...

01:11:32   one more I want to talk about but carry I know so well you guys will have the lightning round after this

01:11:36   In case you guys did his lightning item. I know I was about to say I

01:11:40   Was too early on that one this one should be easy to guess for anyone who's been listening to me on this or any other

01:11:46   Podcast the my third item is destiny

01:11:49   Which counts of course tech product? Yeah?

01:11:51   Like not since quake 3 arena and unreal tournament 2004 have I spent this much time playing a single video game my playstation 4 is

01:12:00   Essentially a destiny machine especially since I've removed it from the television for terrible burn-in reasons

01:12:05   All I do on that thing is play destiny and I play it a lot and I'm afraid to look at the total number

01:12:11   of hours recently about

01:12:13   You would think it would get boring but you know obviously it's an MMO

01:12:17   So you're playing with other people and that extends life of the game

01:12:19   It's the same reason quick through arena and unreal tournament were for so long because you are playing with other people

01:12:24   So the game is much less predictable than playing like a single-player game

01:12:28   Or a game against computer-controlled opponents because people are inscrutable

01:12:31   And kind of like quick theory in an unreal tournament. There is a steady flow of content

01:12:37   Back in the old days it was maps that other people would make so you download new wraps for

01:12:42   Quake or new maps for unreal and you try them out sometimes the new maps would come from the people who made the games most

01:12:47   of the times not and in the case of

01:12:50   Destiny all the new contents coming from Bungie

01:12:53   But they've had a steady stream of expansions that yes you pay for but like I was talking about this someone

01:12:58   recently like the dollar per hour of enjoyment I've gotten a destiny there

01:13:02   its ratio is phenomenal compared to pretty much anything else like because

01:13:07   yeah it is 60 bucks for the game 30 bucks for an expansion 40 bucks or no

01:13:10   expansion but do the division on the number of hours and you're like oh this

01:13:14   is like the cheapest entertainment dollars ever so the expansions really

01:13:18   have kept it fresh for me and you know the constant adjustments to the game and

01:13:24   the systems in the game and the items and everything that Bungie is doing for

01:13:26   Just from week to week not just for the expansions, but from week to week

01:13:29   They're doing little tweaks here and there and explaining why they do them. That's an interesting sort of surrounding

01:13:34   Context for the game where there's the game and then there's the talking about the game

01:13:39   Then there's the reading about the future things that are gonna be down in the game, and I think for the most part

01:13:43   Bungie has been keeping things moving in the right direction

01:13:46   It's a few you know questionable decisions that they're going back and forth on but 2.0 the big 2.0 change to the entire game

01:13:52   engine really addressed a lot of the worst parts of the progression system in the early

01:13:57   game. So Destiny is my first MMO because I generally hate MMOs but I really like first

01:14:03   person shooter games and Destiny is a really good first person shooter and as far as I

01:14:08   can tell having never played any MMOs before I think it's a really fun MMO too so thumbs

01:14:12   up on Destiny. Did you ever get into Counter Strike out of curiosity? It's not quite the

01:14:17   same kind of game. I mean but it is though. You're playing against other human beings

01:14:21   and so it's much more interesting than playing it by yourself.

01:14:23   I tend to stay away from the more militaristic first-person shooters.

01:14:30   They've never really appealed to...

01:14:32   The closer they get to real-life guns,

01:14:34   because I'm not a real-life gun aficionado,

01:14:37   so the closer they get to real-life guns and real-life military,

01:14:40   I just find it off-putting, even though Counter-Strike is still, you know,

01:14:42   basically like I say about Quick 3 Arena and Unreal Tournament,

01:14:46   it's basically a game of tag.

01:14:47   It has very little to do with actual guns,

01:14:50   but it's close enough that it sort of repels me a little bit, which is why I prefer completely fantastical, you know,

01:14:56   space marines or shooting aliens or powered armor or whatever other weird stuff you've got in franchises like

01:15:03   Halo or even something like Gears of War kind of, I guess, but I tend to stay away from the military things.

01:15:10   And Destiny, I guess technically they're kind of the military, but it's really just like lasers and pew pew and space aliens.

01:15:15   [laughter]

01:15:18   I only ask because I logged a lot of time playing Counter-Strike when I was at Virginia Tech and not doing the things

01:15:24   I should have been doing like studying. But yeah, I loved Counter-Strike and I loved Quake as well. I think Quake 2

01:15:30   was so long ago. I think that was my jam, but gosh, it was forever ago.

01:15:34   All right.

01:15:37   Does that mean we're out of sponsors? So I guess Marco, want to do your lightning round entry?

01:15:42   It's it's a little bit this barely made on the list really because I'm still a little bit like 50/50 on how much I like

01:15:49   It but pretty safe to number six

01:15:51   I'm gonna go with the Apple watch

01:15:55   because it really has

01:15:57   driven a positive influence in my life and

01:16:01   The Apple watch itself. I keep this is another one of those blog posts

01:16:04   I keep trying to write and starting to write and failing to write

01:16:07   I keep meaning to write my Apple Watch six months in post,

01:16:11   which of course now it's like seven months in.

01:16:14   (laughs)

01:16:14   I started writing it when it was three months in.

01:16:17   And the Apple Watch, it's easy to just look at it now

01:16:22   and assume it's always been here

01:16:23   because I do wear mine every day.

01:16:26   I've tried going without it for a few days

01:16:28   and I don't miss it as much as I think I would

01:16:32   before I do it.

01:16:33   And there are parts of it that haven't been

01:16:36   as sticky for me just because they aren't that reliable.

01:16:40   And the things that I like about it,

01:16:44   there's an asterisk after each one.

01:16:46   I do love it for notifications.

01:16:48   I do love it for very quick Siri things.

01:16:52   I do love it for the activity tracking.

01:16:55   And I do love having the weather thing on the face

01:16:58   and the other complications.

01:16:59   But all those things are kinda like 75% there.

01:17:04   So this is kinda tentatively there.

01:17:06   I'm very happy this product exists,

01:17:09   but I think it still needs a lot more work

01:17:12   on both the hardware and the software

01:17:14   before it's very good.

01:17:15   But I do like where it is now,

01:17:17   and it did something that I didn't think was possible,

01:17:20   which is it transformed me into being a watch person.

01:17:24   As I mentioned when it was new,

01:17:26   I hadn't worn a watch before this since high school.

01:17:29   Now that we're in the cell phone revolution,

01:17:31   I really didn't see the point of a watch.

01:17:33   But now that I have one, I like it a lot,

01:17:35   And so now I'm starting to look at other watches

01:17:37   that don't have screens and don't have batteries.

01:17:41   - That's when you need another expensive hobby, right?

01:17:44   - Isn't that great?

01:17:45   Yeah, yeah.

01:17:46   And I'm starting to take joy in the design of nice watches.

01:17:51   And so it's kinda nice, you know?

01:17:54   So we'll see what happens.

01:17:56   But I like the Apple Watch in general.

01:17:59   It's a good product.

01:18:00   I wouldn't say it's necessarily a great one yet,

01:18:03   but it is a good product now.

01:18:05   and it has driven positive change in my life.

01:18:07   So I appreciate that.

01:18:09   - You know, it's funny you bring up the Apple Watch

01:18:11   as your lightning round entry,

01:18:12   because my lightning round entry is the Apple Watch.

01:18:15   I was going to say the exact same thing,

01:18:17   and I think the piece that is most startling to me

01:18:22   is the notifications, which you brought up a moment ago.

01:18:27   I haven't heard my phone,

01:18:30   except when I've accidentally turned the ringer back on,

01:18:33   since I received my Apple Watch, which was what,

01:18:36   like May or something like that?

01:18:37   - Yeah, about that.

01:18:38   - So I haven't heard my phone since then,

01:18:41   and I think that's a good thing.

01:18:43   And I had, even before the Apple Watch,

01:18:46   I had called a lot of my notifications

01:18:48   and brought that number way, way, way down.

01:18:50   And I turned off a lot of Twitter notifications.

01:18:52   I turned off Instagram notifications,

01:18:54   a lot of those that I really didn't need

01:18:56   to be notified about, I had turned off.

01:18:58   And even with all of those notifications off,

01:19:02   I haven't turned those back on since I've gotten the watch,

01:19:04   but even what remains, things like text messages,

01:19:08   or emails from VIPs or what have you,

01:19:11   nobody else has to know when that stuff is happening.

01:19:14   I get a nice little tap tap tap on my wrist,

01:19:16   and that's that.

01:19:17   And I really, really, really love that.

01:19:21   And I too have, in my list of things to do,

01:19:24   my six months in, now seven months in Apple Watch post,

01:19:27   I too have been procrastinating

01:19:29   because I haven't figured out what my angle is really,

01:19:32   But I completely concur with you that, especially for a device that has with most things I hemmed

01:19:38   and hawed about, I'm really glad I got it.

01:19:41   I love it so much for just keeping that noise clutter out of my life.

01:19:48   And yes, of course, I'm still getting notified about these things, but I don't know, just

01:19:51   having it be silent, I just like so much.

01:19:55   And maybe it's just because I feel like it's kind of disrespectful to have your devices

01:19:58   binging and bonging while other people are around.

01:20:02   And I just love that my phone has been silent since May, and that's really awesome.

01:20:06   Bing bong!

01:20:07   Oh, God, now I'm sad.

01:20:10   Now I'm sad.

01:20:11   Yeah, you brought it up.

01:20:12   I was going to say, if you two had not mentioned the Apple Watch, it would have been weird

01:20:16   to have none of us mention Apple's new product line, like the latest big thing—I guess

01:20:25   we're not counting Apple TV, which none of us also mentioned. But the latest big thing from Apple,

01:20:29   the Apple Watch, kind of towards the end of our list. I probably wouldn't put it on mine,

01:20:34   mostly because the Apple Watch has not changed the fact that I am not a watch person. I do not

01:20:40   like things attached to my wrist. My wife is currently real-time heckling me about how often

01:20:44   I forget to put my watch on. And my plan, what I'm doing is I plan to always wear it to work,

01:20:51   but I very often forget. When I do wear it to work, I find it convenient, just like you said

01:20:55   Casey, to have the little tap taps on the wrist, to be able to have it track. Even though I don't

01:21:02   do what Marco does with actually trying to fill the circles and stuff, I do like to get the stand

01:21:06   up reminders and I do make a little bit of extra effort to be more mobile at work. Because it

01:21:10   basically reminds you, it's like all those apps I have run various times for RSI and my Mac to

01:21:15   to remind you, hey, I know you're kind of like in the zone

01:21:18   on some issue, but remember to get up and just like,

01:21:22   go refill your water cup or, you know,

01:21:24   take a walk around or do something else.

01:21:26   And I do find it especially convenient,

01:21:29   so I don't have to take out my phone,

01:21:33   even if my phone is sitting on the desk,

01:21:35   it just seems so much, and even with touch ID,

01:21:38   it seems like so much more of an effort

01:21:39   to pick the thing up, put my thumb on the thing

01:21:41   on my incredibly slow iPhone 6 without the S

01:21:44   to wait those extra seven milliseconds

01:21:46   for the thumbprint to go on.

01:21:48   Whereas in the watch, none of that is involved

01:21:50   and you can just look at it.

01:21:51   And Apple Pay on the watch, I find it also much nicer

01:21:54   than doing Apple Pay on the phone.

01:21:55   I do like Apple Pay, I use it whenever I possibly can,

01:21:58   I use Apple Pay and the double tap on the watch is nicer

01:22:01   than again, putting the phone new to the thing

01:22:03   and trying to do the thumbprint,

01:22:04   no, it's not reading my touch ID

01:22:05   and then it's just automatically unlocked on your wrist.

01:22:08   So I wouldn't put it on my list

01:22:10   because it is just reinforced that I'm not a watch person.

01:22:12   I can also say that the watch is like something that, I'm not going to say I wouldn't have

01:22:18   bought it on my own because I did buy it on my own, but it was kind of like, well, I should

01:22:22   probably buy it to see, but all the fuss is about like, it's kind of like I bought it

01:22:26   for work, work being this podcast.

01:22:28   Whereas if I wasn't on a podcast and wasn't writing about tech stuff, I probably wouldn't

01:22:32   have bought it.

01:22:33   In the end, I'm still glad I bought it, but let's put it this way, I'm not going to be

01:22:38   rushing out to buy the next version of the Apple Watch.

01:22:40   wait a couple of revisions until it gets way thinner.

01:22:43   Because I think a lot of my resistance to the watch is not the Apple Watch specifically,

01:22:47   but watches in general.

01:22:48   I just don't like things on my wrist.

01:22:49   So if they can make things smaller and lighter and less like an Airstream trailer, that will

01:22:52   make it more attractive to me.

01:22:54   Oh, God, that's fantastic.

01:22:57   All right.

01:22:59   And I know I said it earlier, but it would really be wrong of me not to say thanks to

01:23:03   all our listeners one more time and our sponsors as well.

01:23:05   So thank you to our listeners and to our three sponsors.

01:23:09   Space, Automatic, and Bushel.

01:23:11   - All right.

01:23:13   And we will see you next week.

01:23:14   Are we doing a tag team?

01:23:15   I got the, I'm with you.

01:23:16   We will see you next week.

01:23:18   Do you say we will see you?

01:23:19   We don't actually see them.

01:23:21   - I do say that.

01:23:22   Thank you for ruining it now.

01:23:24   - All right, it's fine.

01:23:25   I just, I don't want you to, don't overthink it.

01:23:27   (upbeat music)

01:23:30   ♪ Now the show is over ♪

01:23:32   ♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪

01:23:35   ♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪

01:23:37   ♪ Accidental ♪

01:23:37   Oh it was accidental John didn't do any research

01:23:42   Margo and Casey wouldn't let him Cause it was accidental

01:23:48   It was accidental And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:23:56   And if you're into Twitter You can follow them @CASEYLISS

01:24:05   That's Casey List, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

01:24:10   Auntie Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C,

01:24:15   USA, Syracuse.

01:24:17   It's accidental.

01:24:18   It's accidental.

01:24:20   They didn't mean to.

01:24:23   Accidental.

01:24:24   Accidental.

01:24:25   Tech podcast so long.

01:24:30   That was awesome.

01:24:31   That was a really good idea, John.

01:24:32   I do want to add one more kind of bonus one.

01:24:34   - Of course you don't.

01:24:35   - Oh, here we go.

01:24:36   - So one is the Apple Pencil,

01:24:38   and this is a really short one

01:24:39   because it's easy when you say,

01:24:41   you know, what's the best of the year?

01:24:43   The stuff that came most recently

01:24:44   tends to be more weighted in your mind.

01:24:47   So I don't know what I'm gonna think long term about it,

01:24:49   but the Apple Pencil is really cool.

01:24:51   And yes, the Apple TV is also new.

01:24:53   The Apple TV, I think, is more of a mixed bag

01:24:55   in terms of complexity

01:24:57   and some of its remaining shortcomings and everything.

01:25:00   But the Apple Pencil really only does one thing,

01:25:02   and it does that one thing already today from day one,

01:25:05   and it does it shockingly well once you can find one.

01:25:09   But it does it shockingly well, and it is so good,

01:25:13   and it's so nice to use that it is making me

01:25:16   keep borrowing Tiff's iPad Pro,

01:25:19   and keep wishing I had more of a reason to use this pencil.

01:25:23   Because I am not a visual artist,

01:25:26   I don't illustrate things, I don't make diagrams,

01:25:29   I don't take notes.

01:25:30   I don't really have a good reason to use it,

01:25:33   but I wish I did because it's just so pleasant

01:25:36   and delightful and just like technically satisfying

01:25:40   like once I know how good it is.

01:25:41   Like it's just so nice to use.

01:25:43   - So what are you doing with it?

01:25:45   - Right now I'm just playing around.

01:25:47   Maybe I should start trying to take notes on things.

01:25:49   I don't know, I don't know.

01:25:50   Right now I'm just playing around.

01:25:51   And then the second thing is Tesla.

01:25:56   I don't own a Tesla yet.

01:25:57   I'm planning on buying one soon,

01:25:58   but I don't own one yet.

01:26:00   But one thing I like about Tesla,

01:26:02   and I think in 2015 they really came into their own

01:26:04   with this, that, you know, in the absence of Steve Jobs now,

01:26:09   the world is kind of low on genius billionaires

01:26:14   that are kind of near the tech industry

01:26:15   that are making things really interesting for everybody.

01:26:18   And it's fun to be in one of those groups.

01:26:21   Like it was fun to be a fan of Apple

01:26:24   when Steve was really at his peak,

01:26:27   which is unfortunate right before he died.

01:26:29   But it's fun to be a fan of a crazy billionaire company

01:26:34   that's doing crazy good things.

01:26:37   Jeff Bezos has always almost been that kind of person,

01:26:40   but not that kind of person.

01:26:42   Steve Jobs definitely was,

01:26:44   and I think Elon Musk is that kind of person,

01:26:46   and where, yeah, he's out of his mind,

01:26:48   but he's also a genius, and he also is very driven

01:26:52   to keep making really interesting products

01:26:55   that are pushing things forward in this area

01:26:58   that he's working in.

01:26:59   And so I think what Tesla's doing is really cool.

01:27:04   Even if I don't end up buying one,

01:27:06   which honestly I probably will buy one,

01:27:07   I've pretty much decided that now,

01:27:09   but it's just really cool to be in one of those fandoms

01:27:14   of these kind of products by these crazy billionaires again

01:27:17   because they do things that seem so audacious.

01:27:22   And when they do them well, it's really nice.

01:27:26   And Apple did it well.

01:27:27   And now Tesla seems to be doing it well.

01:27:30   And so that's pretty cool.

01:27:31   - Activision is kind of like a crazy billionaire.

01:27:33   Maybe we should try Destiny.

01:27:35   - Wow.

01:27:37   - You should do some googling for Activision.

01:27:39   They are actually pretty crazy.

01:27:41   [BEEP]