137: Feature Photos


00:00:00   Alright, so a lot of OS updates these days.

00:00:03   Yeah, like all of them.

00:00:05   Yeah, like everything.

00:00:07   I definitely sat down at 7.15 to upgrade my work Mac, which is the one I'm recording

00:00:13   on, to El Capitan.

00:00:15   I still hate that name.

00:00:17   You upgraded to a .0 release on your podcasting machine a few hours before you had to podcast

00:00:24   from it?

00:00:25   Less than three.

00:00:26   Oh my god.

00:00:27   (laughing)

00:00:28   I knew not to say anything to you guys,

00:00:31   nor the internet, until I had at least gotten on the call

00:00:34   and that much had worked.

00:00:36   We'll see if I have actually recorded anything

00:00:38   by the time this is all over, but yes,

00:00:41   in theory everything's going well.

00:00:43   - So typically the rule of audio setups,

00:00:47   and this applies to a lot of things,

00:00:48   but especially in audio setups, the rule is

00:00:51   once you have something that works,

00:00:53   don't touch anything ever, just leave it there.

00:00:56   Don't touch it.

00:00:58   And of course, in practice, this is harder to do.

00:01:00   If you had to like, oh, one time had to do something

00:01:04   different, then you gotta change the snob,

00:01:06   change the setting, maybe change the wiring around

00:01:09   for something, then you gotta change it back

00:01:11   and it's a pain.

00:01:12   And then of course in the age of computers and software,

00:01:16   it's even worse and it's like, well,

00:01:19   some people have to try to keep around an old machine

00:01:21   running an old version of the OS 'cause the software

00:01:23   doesn't work on anything newer or they just don't wanna

00:01:25   risk it breaking.

00:01:26   So there's a balance to be struck here,

00:01:30   because obviously it's very hard to hold on

00:01:32   to old versions of OS and old versions of software forever,

00:01:35   and as time goes on, I think it's getting harder

00:01:37   to hold on to old versions of things,

00:01:39   but at the same time, it worked and you touched it.

00:01:42   So I think there's a balance to be struck here,

00:01:45   and you did not strike it.

00:01:46   (laughing)

00:01:48   - It probably is okay for me to upgrade

00:01:50   as long as I don't have any drinks near the machine.

00:01:53   I think that's a fair compromise.

00:01:54   (laughing)

00:01:55   (electronic beeping)

00:01:57   All right, you wanna do some follow-up?

00:01:58   - Talk about why people are upset about Marco pulling piece

00:02:03   and one of the things that I think Marco brought up

00:02:05   and we were trying to Google for the name of it

00:02:07   was loss aversion.

00:02:08   Joshua Pollock points out that another term

00:02:10   that might fit is endowment effect.

00:02:12   The hypothesis that people ascribe more value to things

00:02:15   merely because they own them.

00:02:17   So once you've got peace,

00:02:18   it's super important that you have peace.

00:02:20   Before you had peace,

00:02:21   it wasn't super important that you get it.

00:02:23   So once they've got the $3 application and you pull it,

00:02:26   it's much worse than him never having launched it,

00:02:29   even though the effect is the same.

00:02:31   Anyway, people are weird.

00:02:33   Thanks Joshua for the followup.

00:02:35   - In summary, people are weird.

00:02:37   (laughing)

00:02:38   Good times.

00:02:39   - And we can summarize much of our followup that way.

00:02:41   - All right, what else do we have here?

00:02:44   Daniel Melitz has a short anecdote about visual effects,

00:02:49   which I think has been in the followup

00:02:50   for about 12 years now.

00:02:52   But would you like to tell us about that, Jon?

00:02:54   - It's actually related to the iPad Pro and Pen stuff.

00:02:58   He says he works in VFX, which is visual effects,

00:03:01   and he says, "By my rough estimate,

00:03:03   "somewhere around 50% of compositors use a Wacom

00:03:07   "or Wacom tablet instead of a mouse for RSI reasons."

00:03:10   And I see that a lot too, people using a tablet,

00:03:13   not just to do drawing stuff,

00:03:16   but to do everything in the computer.

00:03:18   Like they're using their tablet basically as a mouse

00:03:21   to select menus, to select tools from palettes,

00:03:23   to move icons around on their desktop,

00:03:25   in the finder, whatever it is they're doing.

00:03:27   And that's relevant to the iPad Pro

00:03:29   because recently Michael Johnson, Dr. Wave on Twitter,

00:03:34   I think it was him, tweeted a picture

00:03:36   of a bunch of people at Pixar trying out the iPad Pro.

00:03:39   Apparently Apple visited Pixar

00:03:41   and deposited some iPad Pro hardware

00:03:44   in front of the Pixar artists

00:03:46   and they all got a chance to try it out

00:03:48   and the reviews were pretty good.

00:03:51   I mean it's just tweets so it's not like some big article that you can read about the trial

00:03:57   run of these things but the one thing I remember is they said that the palm rejection was really

00:04:00   good which means like when you rest your hand on the surface of the tablet and then try

00:04:04   to draw with the pen because you want to sort of steady the pen it doesn't think that your

00:04:07   hand is a touch and suddenly draw things underneath where your hand is or move stuff around or

00:04:12   whatever it just knows to take a look at the pen so anyway I am still looking forward to

00:04:17   trying out this pen even though I don't really do any kind of illustration just because it

00:04:21   looks neat. And who knows, maybe I'll get one someday.

00:04:26   All right. Let's see. So Monty Good also wrote in, he said, "Conventional wisdom seems to

00:04:36   be that the only people currently using ad blockers are nerds, which is to say a subset

00:04:40   of Internet users. So I'm not understanding why the doomsayers think that an upcoming

00:04:44   tweak to iOS, which is now here, is going to cause legions of people to do something

00:04:49   that they are already not doing.

00:04:51   This is something I wanted to talk about, but then Margo had to go and "calls all the

00:04:55   drums," as they say.

00:04:56   Sorry.

00:04:57   So we had to have a whole show about that.

00:04:59   But yeah, more broadly on the topic of ad blocking, I put this in here way before iOS

00:05:03   9 even came out, just because all of the discussion about ad blocking and the ethics of ad blocking

00:05:11   and the possible effects on the publishing industry or whatever, I hadn't seen anyone

00:05:14   really nail down what they expected to happen in terms of the number of people who run ad

00:05:20   blockers.

00:05:21   Obviously, introducing this feature to iOS is really important because iOS is a big platform.

00:05:26   A lot of people use iOS, especially a lot of people who buy things use iOS.

00:05:31   And adding the ability to have blockers where once there was no ability to have them, at

00:05:34   least with the built-in browser, is significant.

00:05:37   But you're still left with the question, how many people do we think are going to install

00:05:42   an ad blocker?

00:05:43   It's way easier to install one now.

00:05:45   You can install it by tapping a couple of buttons on your iPhone, but iPhone users are

00:05:49   only what, 20% of the smartphone market or 30% less than that of the overall phone market.

00:05:57   And so even if you say 100% of iOS users are going to install an ad blocker the day iOS

00:06:01   9 comes out, which is totally not true, I'm going to say it's under 100%, but even if

00:06:04   100% did, does that destroy publishing?

00:06:08   100% of desktop users can install an ad blocker right now.

00:06:12   percentage of desktop web browsing people actually do install an ad blocker.

00:06:17   I don't have much experience with this except for reading things on the web and even I think

00:06:21   like the nerdiest sites are only around like they're still under 50% ad blockers for like

00:06:26   the very nerdiest most paranoid most privacy concerned readers.

00:06:33   Even those sites seem to only get around you know 50% or less of people installing ad blockers.

00:06:39   I would say for the general web on the desktop,

00:06:41   it's well under 20% of people install ad blockers,

00:06:45   but I don't know, I'm just pulling numbers out of my butt.

00:06:47   Anyway, in the spirit of pulling numbers out of our butt,

00:06:50   what do we think is going to happen with iOS?

00:06:54   What percentage of iOS users are going to install

00:06:56   some kind of ad blocker?

00:06:58   - I would guess 10 to 20%, closer to 10.

00:07:01   - Yeah, that sounds, I mean, that sounds high.

00:07:04   If you say what percentage of iOS users

00:07:07   will install anything.

00:07:08   Like, it's such a broad base of people that it's, you know,

00:07:12   I would say 10% would be a pretty good conservative,

00:07:17   or a pretty good optimistic high estimate.

00:07:20   I mean, think about like, the most popular app on the phone

00:07:23   is probably the Facebook app,

00:07:24   the most popular third party app.

00:07:26   Most likely Facebook, right?

00:07:27   If not YouTube, but probably Facebook.

00:07:29   Then like, you know, how many people have that installed

00:07:33   on iOS, what percentage of iOS users have that installed?

00:07:36   maybe half, I don't know, maybe more, I don't know.

00:07:39   I have no idea what to expect there,

00:07:40   but that's a massive app right there.

00:07:43   To reach half of iOS people, that's huge.

00:07:46   So yeah, I would guess on the order of 10%

00:07:49   is reasonable to be an optimistic goal.

00:07:53   - I think it'll be a little bit higher than that eventually,

00:07:56   mostly because it's not one app like Facebook or YouTube,

00:08:00   it's basically a category.

00:08:02   Do you have any kind of blocker installed?

00:08:04   And I think word will spread among the people

00:08:07   who care about this stuff at all,

00:08:09   that like get a blocker, whatever,

00:08:12   like pick a brand name, whatever brand name

00:08:14   people is traveling around in people's social circles,

00:08:17   it's gonna be like, you need to install X

00:08:19   because it makes stuff faster on your phone.

00:08:22   I bet people are gonna be saying,

00:08:23   you need to install X because it makes Facebook faster,

00:08:26   like the Facebook app, which is probably not true.

00:08:28   I don't think Facebook actually uses any web views

00:08:31   that would honor the content blocker, but either way.

00:08:32   - Right, that's a big problem though.

00:08:34   That's a big problem in regular people's expectations

00:08:37   of what this will do and won't do.

00:08:38   So keep in mind, content blockers can't block anything

00:08:42   that is not displayed in a Safari view controller,

00:08:44   which people like Twitter and Facebook and everything

00:08:47   are unlikely to use at least anytime soon if ever,

00:08:50   especially as Facebook is pushing more towards

00:08:52   their own news format that it shows in a custom way

00:08:55   and they're an app that isn't even a web browser.

00:08:56   So that's problem number one.

00:08:58   Problem number two is you sell somebody an app

00:09:01   that says this will block ads on your iPhone,

00:09:03   but it doesn't block in-app ads,

00:09:06   like ads that are not in a web view in an app.

00:09:08   It only blocks ads in Safari and Safari View Controller.

00:09:12   And as more and more browsing is happening

00:09:14   in apps that aren't Safari,

00:09:16   and in some of these apps that have their own custom stuff

00:09:19   that aren't just launching Safari View Controller,

00:09:21   the percentage of ads that people on mobile see

00:09:25   that can be blocked by this

00:09:27   is probably going down over time, not up.

00:09:30   sure they're gonna work around it but I don't think it matters whether it

00:09:32   actually blocks it it only matters that this this sort of it's kind of like

00:09:36   quitting all your apps this sort of information slash mince of

00:09:39   misinformation starts traveling think of the force quitting all your apps which

00:09:44   we've talked about many times before that travel has traveled pretty well

00:09:48   doesn't matter what effect it does or doesn't have all that matters is that

00:09:52   people think it does something so I I'm going to guess that the idea that you

00:09:56   should install a whatever on your iPhone because it will make whatever better. That idea has

00:10:02   legs and that idea will get around and I think people will install a blocker and won't be

00:10:07   able to tell whether it does anything and won't ever bother to uninstall it. So I'm

00:10:10   going to say that the percentage might be as high as like 20%. Like I'm willing to go

00:10:15   up around that range.

00:10:17   Keep in mind also before I move on from this point though, keep in mind also the process

00:10:22   of enabling a content blocker after you've installed it is so buried and complicated

00:10:28   that it wouldn't surprise me at all if a lot of those people you just mentioned install

00:10:32   it and never actually turn it on.

00:10:34   That's a good point. I had forgotten about that part of the process. All right. So I

00:10:37   guess we have to modify it too and not how many people will install one, but how many

00:10:40   people will install it and also turn it on. All right. Now I dropped my estimate down

00:10:44   again.

00:10:45   Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like I think 10% is optimistic.

00:10:47   All right. Anyway, but all of our numbers that we're throwing out there are well below

00:10:52   50% and this is what I'm getting at and all the discussion and hemming and hauling about content blockers and all the New York Times

00:10:56   Articles or whatever no one seemed to say oh and by the way all this thing they were kicking up a fuss about

00:11:02   90% of the people aren't going to install in any way and so that I think is the one of the most important underlying

00:11:08   Premises of any argument about what ad blockers are aren't going to do to the economics of the web or whatever and understand sites like

00:11:17   Don't want to have 10 or 20 percent of their people not seeing their ads and that this is a problem or whatever

00:11:21   but it's not the sort of Armageddon doomsaying

00:11:23   about ad blocking.

00:11:25   It's a little bit overblown unless the same people

00:11:28   who are speaking doom and gloom are also going

00:11:32   to boldly assert that doom and gloom is coming

00:11:35   because X percentage of people are gonna install it

00:11:38   and because that percentage is, you know,

00:11:40   equals doom and gloom, right?

00:11:42   And no one seems to ever wanna nail it down.

00:11:44   No one's going to say,

00:11:45   all these bad things are gonna happen,

00:11:47   and by the way, I think all these things bad

00:11:49   are gonna happen because 5% of people

00:11:51   People are going to install ad blockers, and guess what?

00:11:52   5% is enough to wipe out all publishing life on earth.

00:11:55   (laughing)

00:11:57   They don't, like, no one thinks it's going to be 100%,

00:11:59   but no, and I think it's going to be a pretty low,

00:12:01   and I think this is an important move,

00:12:03   and I think it will have effects.

00:12:04   I'm not saying it's not going to do anything,

00:12:06   but every time I think about this issue,

00:12:08   we're just guessing this one.

00:12:09   We're trying to figure out

00:12:11   how many people are going to do this.

00:12:13   And I'm thinking, meme-wise, best case scenario,

00:12:16   it spreads as far and wide

00:12:18   as the force quitting your apps thing spreads,

00:12:20   which is surprisingly far, but even that one,

00:12:23   I bet is less than 50%.

00:12:25   I bet if you just picked 50% random iPhone users

00:12:29   from the world, put them in a room and say,

00:12:30   do you even know, like show them force quitting apps,

00:12:33   you can't say words because they won't know

00:12:34   what force quit or whatever, you know, it's Mac lingo,

00:12:37   show them the thing and say, do you know what this is?

00:12:39   Have you ever done this?

00:12:40   And I bet more than half of them will be like,

00:12:42   I don't even know what you just did.

00:12:43   I don't know what that is.

00:12:44   I don't know why I would ever do that.

00:12:46   The other half would say, yeah,

00:12:47   you do that 'cause it saves battery.

00:12:48   (laughing)

00:12:50   I don't know, I see it a lot.

00:12:51   I'm not saying you're wrong about any stretch,

00:12:53   but I see it a lot.

00:12:55   And just the other day when we were at a football game,

00:12:58   the person in the row in front of me would open an app,

00:13:01   do his thing, then go to the task switcher

00:13:05   and force quit the app every single time.

00:13:07   And it was maddening because I wanted to just be like,

00:13:09   no, stop.

00:13:10   - Yeah, Apple needs to like,

00:13:12   I don't know what Apple can do about that.

00:13:14   It kind of got away from them.

00:13:16   Like what can they do to stop people from doing that?

00:13:19   I think a fun thing to do would to make the app switcher,

00:13:24   I don't know, like make the application disappear

00:13:29   when you switch away from, I don't know,

00:13:30   I can't figure it out.

00:13:31   Like once people know that it's there

00:13:32   and they just like doing it, it's just,

00:13:34   it's kind of like the same as the people

00:13:35   who don't put their iOS devices to sleep,

00:13:37   but shut them down every time they're done using them.

00:13:39   And then like five minutes later, they boot it up again,

00:13:41   then they shut them down.

00:13:42   - There are people like that?

00:13:44   - Yep, then they boot them up and they shut them down.

00:13:46   And they're annoyed by how long it takes.

00:13:48   They gotta see the Apple logo, it takes so long.

00:13:50   (laughing)

00:13:51   - Oh man.

00:13:52   - What do you do to stop that?

00:13:53   Like you can show them the other way

00:13:54   or you can try to convince them

00:13:55   and they'll just say, "I like doing it this way.

00:13:59   "I like it to be off.

00:14:00   "I like it that we can play it off.

00:14:01   "I don't like the idea of that it's on."

00:14:04   I don't know, anyway.

00:14:05   Yeah, so this, I have more to say on ad blockers

00:14:08   but I think we've talked about them enough on past shows

00:14:10   and we will circle back to it.

00:14:11   Later on when we get to, I mean,

00:14:13   because I think we're gonna eventually start getting numbers.

00:14:15   Like the second round of stories about this

00:14:17   to be like, "So iOS 9 has been out for six months, and here's a bunch of popular websites,

00:14:21   and here's what they say about iOS users using iOS 9 or percentage..."

00:14:26   You know, like, we'll get numbers on it, so we'll circle back then.

00:14:29   Well, speaking of, our friend Ben Thompson is in the chat and has said that over 50%

00:14:34   of Stratechery—he did embrace Stratechery, right?

00:14:37   It's no longer Strateecary?

00:14:38   Anyway, over 50% of Stratechery users have ad blockers.

00:14:42   Now to his own point, it's a very geeky audience,

00:14:45   but he got these numbers apparently

00:14:47   by comparing Google Analytics numbers versus server logs.

00:14:51   - Well, I wouldn't say that's a great comparison

00:14:54   'cause of various JavaScript things

00:14:55   and bots and everything else, but that's maybe a ballpark.

00:14:58   But I think also what we're gonna see is

00:15:02   we're gonna see a really big spike in those percentages

00:15:06   if people have been tracking them temporarily

00:15:08   because for the last few years,

00:15:12   mobile traffic has been dominating so much

00:15:15   that it's pretty common for typical sites

00:15:19   to have over 50% of their traffic being mobile.

00:15:22   And for all these years so far,

00:15:25   there really haven't been mobile ad blockers

00:15:26   in any meaningful numbers.

00:15:28   So all of a sudden, like 50% of your traffic

00:15:32   is now able to get ad blockers where it couldn't before.

00:15:36   - Well it's not 50%, if it was 50% mobile,

00:15:38   then that was like half Android and half iOS,

00:15:40   depending on what kind of website you run.

00:15:42   And the Android people, I'm assuming,

00:15:43   have always been able to get ad blockers.

00:15:45   Is that not the case?

00:15:46   - I don't know.

00:15:47   I don't think, I should have researched this.

00:15:49   From what I've heard, I don't think there's like

00:15:51   a standard reasonable system way to do it

00:15:54   besides like some kind of like rooted thing

00:15:56   that like interferes with DNS at the system level

00:15:58   or something like that.

00:15:59   But I don't think there's like a common way

00:16:01   that people do it.

00:16:02   - Well, there probably will be if there isn't already.

00:16:04   - I don't know.

00:16:05   I mean, I don't think Google will necessarily be

00:16:07   leaving those hooks all over the place.

00:16:09   - Yeah, but anyone can ship anything on Android, right?

00:16:11   I don't know.

00:16:12   We should ask the people on an Android podcast to find out.

00:16:14   But anyway, all we're ever talking about is iOS.

00:16:17   And again, in the circles we travel in

00:16:19   and the friends we have, a lot of them run sites

00:16:21   where the vast, vast, vast majority of people

00:16:22   who are coming on mobile are coming on iOS,

00:16:24   and the vast majority of people who are coming on desktop

00:16:27   are coming on Macs, and it's a strange little world.

00:16:30   When I was talking about sites that I thought

00:16:32   barely started to push over to 3%,

00:16:33   I'm talking about as mass-market as you can get.

00:16:35   Like a, I'm not gonna say Slashdot and feel old or whatever,

00:16:38   but you know, Ars Technica, Slashdot.

00:16:41   - Slashdot was never mainstream.

00:16:43   - But yeah, back in the day, it was all we had.

00:16:47   Sites that are bigger than like an individual person's blog.

00:16:51   Even just like Daring Fireball would be considered

00:16:53   in the small camp because yeah,

00:16:54   it's big for a one person thing,

00:16:56   but it's not like an institution with lots of writers

00:17:01   and 15 articles a day and so on and so forth.

00:17:03   - All right, one last quick piece of follow up

00:17:06   and then let's talk about all the new things

00:17:08   that happened today.

00:17:09   Ruggedized phones.

00:17:10   - Yeah, this was in response to a couple shows ago

00:17:13   I was trying to articulate for the millionth time

00:17:16   this thing that I should have written down

00:17:17   in a blog 17 years ago.

00:17:19   The idea that product manufacturers

00:17:23   can gain fanatical loyalty by making their products excel

00:17:28   in a few ways and really sticking to that over the years.

00:17:32   And one of those ways is rugged design.

00:17:36   durability, doesn't have to be look fancy,

00:17:39   doesn't have to be the best,

00:17:39   doesn't have to be the cheapest,

00:17:40   but if you have something that is reliably rugged,

00:17:43   whether it's Fisher Price toys getting a reputation

00:17:46   for like you buy this toy

00:17:47   and the kid won't be able to break it,

00:17:48   or I use Craftsman, although people say Craftsman

00:17:50   has gone downhill or whatever,

00:17:52   over the years if you really stick to that core value,

00:17:55   you will get very loyal followers.

00:17:58   And I said it's a shame that no one's doing that for phones

00:18:02   because all the phones are pretty delicate and elegant

00:18:05   and they're going for something different,

00:18:07   like stylishness and chicness,

00:18:08   and plus they gotta make millions of these things,

00:18:10   so they're not gonna, you know.

00:18:11   So where is the narrow focus manufacturer

00:18:14   that's really concentrating on ruggedized phones?

00:18:16   It's certainly not Apple.

00:18:18   Well, so here's one example that someone sent in.

00:18:21   Sorry, I lost the name,

00:18:22   since this was feedback from a while ago.

00:18:24   This is Sonim, or Sonim,

00:18:26   and the example product is a Sonim XP7,

00:18:29   which is a phone that looks like a rugged phone.

00:18:32   It's just an Android phone

00:18:33   with like tons of crap all over it,

00:18:35   but it's like the things they claim

00:18:37   about a long battery life,

00:18:39   usable with gloves on, drop and impact resistance,

00:18:41   oil and chemical resistant, temperature resistant,

00:18:43   extreme pressure resistant,

00:18:45   protection from micro particles,

00:18:48   with powerful audio, waterproof, and puncture resistant.

00:18:51   So here is a, you know, if you're going out in the woods

00:18:54   and you wanna have a smartphone with you,

00:18:55   and you don't wanna try to get an iPhone

00:18:57   with like a screen protector in a case,

00:18:59   someone is actually making ruggedized phones.

00:19:02   This is a little bit more extreme.

00:19:03   This is a little bit like those Toughbook things

00:19:05   or those laptops that people would make for the military

00:19:07   and stuff like that.

00:19:08   I'm thinking more along the lines of like L.L. Bean

00:19:10   or whatever, where it's regular person clothes,

00:19:12   but they have a reputation for if not durability,

00:19:14   then at least standing behind their stuff

00:19:16   and it was like a zipper rips on your L.L. Bean jacket,

00:19:18   you can get it replaced because they basically think

00:19:20   that should never happen and if it does come to us

00:19:22   and show us and we'll give you a new jacket or whatever.

00:19:25   - Now we're gonna hear from those people.

00:19:27   - The L.L. Bean people, I don't know.

00:19:29   Anyway, I'm glad that, I mean,

00:19:31   this is another advantage of Android.

00:19:32   IOS is like whatever Apple decides to make.

00:19:34   And if Apple decides that they don't want to make

00:19:36   a smallish phone that's a little bit thicker

00:19:38   that has longer battery life, tough luck.

00:19:40   You can't get one with IOS like that.

00:19:41   But Android has room for people

00:19:44   to make different kinds of products.

00:19:45   And so here, someone decided there's a market

00:19:47   for ruggedized phones and they're using Android to do it.

00:19:50   - I think most people just use cases

00:19:52   to achieve these kind of goals.

00:19:53   - Well, I mean, look at the goals.

00:19:55   Like you can't achieve these kind of goals with just cases.

00:19:57   - You can get pretty close.

00:19:59   Cases can be surprisingly good.

00:20:01   Yeah I mean I guess you just encase the phone in a Lucide brick or something like then you're

00:20:05   good to go but this is trying to be integrated where it doesn't just look like a phone with

00:20:10   it you know I don't know how good these phones are I've never tried them or whatever but

00:20:13   I'm glad it's out there and it's good to see the market trying to find some way to fill

00:20:20   the needs that a small group of people have but I still think it would behoove all like

00:20:24   the major manufacturers whether it's Google or Apple or Samsung or whatever Samsung was

00:20:28   actually doing pretty good too, but they were one of the first ones, the big vendors, to

00:20:32   tout the fact that they make waterproof phones. But they didn't look waterproof, they were.

00:20:36   And now people are taking iPhone 6s and dunking them in water and saying, "It's kind of

00:20:41   waterproof-ish." Anyway, don't put your phone in water. Don't put your iPhone in water,

00:20:45   if you can help it.

00:20:46   Our first sponsor this week is Cards Against Humanity. And, as usual, Cards Against Humanity,

00:20:51   rather than doing an ad, Reid has asked us to have Jon review a toaster.

00:20:55   [Music]

00:21:06   Around about this time, I think I should have Jason Sneller or somebody sing "Toaster or Not" because something arrived at my house.

00:21:13   And it was a very large box, and on the outside of the box it said "Microwave and Convenience Oven."

00:21:21   Toaster or not! Toaster or not!

00:21:24   I gotta say that this box was not any bigger than the biggest toaster boxes I've gotten.

00:21:30   So it was like comparably sized to the large toasters and the picture on the outside of

00:21:34   it looked like, I don't know what that is.

00:21:36   Maybe it's like a toaster microwave combination.

00:21:38   I've already got had a toaster oven slot toaster combination.

00:21:41   Maybe this is one of those things.

00:21:43   This is how I get the model number.

00:21:45   This is the the LG LCSP 1 1 1 0 s t.

00:21:51   I know that model.

00:21:52   Of course, the LCSP11110ST.

00:21:56   It's the best.

00:21:57   Yeah, I'll put the link in the show notes.

00:21:59   You can take a look at it.

00:22:00   Oh my god, it's huge.

00:22:02   It's really big.

00:22:03   I mean, I gave the inch measurements, but it is really big.

00:22:05   So it looks like a microwave with a cash register, cash drawer below it.

00:22:09   Exactly.

00:22:10   So it's a microwave on top, you know, a microwave door and a bunch of number pads and all that

00:22:14   other stuff.

00:22:15   And then underneath the thing is a silver sort of pull-out handle tray thing.

00:22:22   And before I unpacked this thing, I had one idea about what it might be, and then as I

00:22:27   unpacked it, I realized what it actually was.

00:22:29   It's literally just a plain old microwave with a little rotating dish and all the other

00:22:33   stuff and some really bad UI on the controls.

00:22:36   And then underneath it is a very, very flat sort of miniature oven that you couldn't put

00:22:43   anything in that's any higher.

00:22:44   Like the whole thing I've had about it is you can put pizza in there or chicken nuggets,

00:22:47   but that's about it.

00:22:49   You pull out the drawer and there's maybe an inch or two of clearance in there.

00:22:53   Put something in there and it's got like a little pan that you have to use.

00:22:56   I guess you could put something else that's not a pan in there.

00:22:59   But anyway, you can't see anything when it's inside there.

00:23:01   You just slide it in.

00:23:03   That little slot thing gets really hot really fast because it's a small area.

00:23:08   But this is not a toaster.

00:23:09   You can't really make toast in this.

00:23:12   It doesn't claim to be a toaster.

00:23:13   It's a convenience oven.

00:23:14   Although this convenience oven is the least convenient oven ever because the only thing

00:23:18   you can really cook in it is things that are very flat or frozen pizzas. And the controls

00:23:23   are like, the controls are inscrutable. I don't want to dwell too much in the controls

00:23:27   because I have one other thing I really want to yell about about this thing that is not

00:23:29   related to the functionality. But the controls are like, press this one button repeatedly,

00:23:35   and each one of these buttons corresponds to some kind of weird preset. So like, press

00:23:39   it once and it'll be this temperature. Press it, you know, if you press bake once, it's

00:23:43   425. If you press bake twice, it's 400. If you press bake three times, it's 375. If you

00:23:47   bake four times it's 350. Like, A, you would never guess that and B, I mean it has the

00:23:53   display and it shows you but B, you've got a number pad for crying out loud. Why are

00:23:58   you making me hit like, it's like auto bake, auto defrost, press the pizza button.

00:24:03   Yeah, it has an auto pizza button.

00:24:04   Yeah, and you press that multiple times for different kinds of pizzas. Like seriously,

00:24:08   just it's all just voodoo. Like you really just want at least a microwave works normally.

00:24:12   The microwave you punch a bunch of numbers and it's starting and the numbers are like,

00:24:15   know, fill the thing with minutes and seconds and that works in a

00:24:18   straightforward way. So anyway, the microwave part of it is really small.

00:24:21   It's only about one cubic foot inside the microwave part, but the overall

00:24:26   device is very large. I removed my other microwave to make room for this thing

00:24:31   and it barely fits. It's much taller than my other microwave and about as

00:24:35   wide and as deep, but the inside is smaller. So it's very space-inefficient.

00:24:39   You really have to be getting a lot of use out of that slide-out drawer

00:24:44   miniature pizza oven thing to make this worth your while.

00:24:47   You know, I can't think of anything

00:24:51   that I'd ever want to use it for.

00:24:53   And the microwave is only, what is it, 1,100 watts,

00:24:56   which is pretty wimpy for a microwave.

00:24:58   The oven part is 1,400 watts.

00:25:00   I should have done this.

00:25:01   I didn't try running them both at once.

00:25:02   I probably would have blown the circuit breaker.

00:25:05   No, maybe not, I don't know.

00:25:06   Anyway, so I'm gonna declare this not a toaster.

00:25:11   It is not a toaster oven.

00:25:12   oven is not a slot toaster.

00:25:14   And I'm not entirely sure who this is for.

00:25:16   And holy cow, 200 and something dollars, $289.

00:25:21   That is, I mean, it's not a bad microwave.

00:25:23   We can use it to warm up dinner tonight.

00:25:25   It's fine.

00:25:26   Like it's small, but the microwave part of it is fine.

00:25:30   Like I said, the UI is not too messed up.

00:25:32   But the oven thing, why is that even there?

00:25:34   Maybe if you have frozen pizza a lot,

00:25:37   it could heat up faster than your big oven,

00:25:38   but you better hope your frozen pizza is small

00:25:40   if it fit in that drawer.

00:25:41   If it's a family size frozen pizza, it is not going to fit.

00:25:44   I just think this is a bad, it's not a refrigerator toaster

00:25:48   and it's still probably slightly more practical

00:25:50   than the hybrid slot toaster oven,

00:25:53   but this is not a toaster oven.

00:25:54   It doesn't really make toast.

00:25:56   So I give this a thumbs down.

00:25:57   But all of that aside is one of the things

00:26:00   that I think is the strangest worst thing I've ever seen

00:26:03   in appliance in my entire life for people like me

00:26:05   and perhaps for people like you.

00:26:07   Took this thing out of the box, right?

00:26:10   And if you're looking at the picture of it,

00:26:12   on the front of it, there's like a brushed stainless steel

00:26:15   part, and it had that like static cling plastic on it.

00:26:18   You know, they put over stuff so it doesn't get scratched up

00:26:20   in shipping.

00:26:21   And I'm peeling out the static cling plastic,

00:26:22   and it's a little bit difficult to peel off.

00:26:24   And I'm like, oh, maybe it's got stuck in the drawer.

00:26:26   So I pulled out the drawer, and it turns out

00:26:27   the static cling plastic had sort of like

00:26:29   been tucked under the lip.

00:26:31   So you had to kind of pull the drawer out and pull

00:26:33   the static cling plastic off of the inside

00:26:35   of the lip of the drawer and stuff.

00:26:37   And that was a little bit annoying.

00:26:39   And then I looked at the top of it and there was a big sticker on top.

00:26:42   And I'm going to say I'm a person who always wants to remove stickers from everything,

00:26:46   but I'm going to go so far as to say everybody should remove stickers from everything.

00:26:50   If you buy something from the store, like a dustpan or a broom or a vacuum cleaner or

00:26:55   anything, a garbage can, and it has a sticker on it, take the sticker off.

00:27:00   It's not there, it's not supposed to be there for the next 30 years as this garbage can

00:27:03   says in your house.

00:27:04   The sticker is just like to advertise at you in the store, it's not part of the product,

00:27:08   please peel it off.

00:27:10   Manufacturers please make that easy to do.

00:27:11   Anyway, there's a sticker on top

00:27:12   and I start peeling it off and it's difficult to peel.

00:27:14   And I read the sticker

00:27:15   and it's in like three different languages.

00:27:16   It says, this product is coated with a clear vinyl

00:27:20   for protection during shipping.

00:27:22   You must remove this vinyl before using the product.

00:27:25   Otherwise moisture will build up inside

00:27:27   and bad things will happen and blah, blah, blah.

00:27:29   Now I'm looking around on the thing.

00:27:30   I'm like, well, I just peeled off all the static thing stuff

00:27:32   from the front and that was a little annoying.

00:27:33   Is that what they were talking about?

00:27:34   But then it says, no, start peeling on back right edge.

00:27:38   And I looked on the side and there's vents in the side of the thing.

00:27:40   And the vents, like, I put, stick my fingers in them.

00:27:42   There's no plastic blocking the vents, so it's not as if the entire vents were blocked up.

00:27:45   But I was concerned because the bottom pizza part gets hot.

00:27:48   Like, when you use it, it heats up considerably.

00:27:51   So I didn't want to, like, have some plastic slowly melting to the thing, and that would be gross.

00:27:55   So I go to the back right bottom edge, and I find the little edge of it.

00:27:59   I'm like, "Oh, this entire, like, top, you know, it's all silver all around the whole thing."

00:28:04   The entire top and sides is coated with this peel-off clear plastic.

00:28:08   It's really hard to peel.

00:28:10   And I start getting the edge and starting to peel the thing off.

00:28:12   I think it's going to be like one of those big things, like a cable sasser, what does

00:28:15   he call it?

00:28:16   Competitive peeling, where he likes to peel off the big protective films in one big thing.

00:28:19   So anyway, I'm peeling the thing off, and then I realize what's happening here.

00:28:24   The top part of this oven thing, I don't know if you can see it in the pictures, this entire

00:28:29   sort of silver top back case had this clear vinyl stuff stuck to it before assembly like on all edges

00:28:40   oh no then they assemble the thing and now they want you to peel it off and as you peel

00:28:47   it's impossible to get off cleanly because it's tucked in like as the pieces meet together the

00:28:53   vinyl is tucked inside it so if you're trying to peel this thing off there is literally no and if

00:28:58   And if you are sort of an anal retentive or obsessive compulsive person or like a neat

00:29:02   – I'm using those words.

00:29:04   Those are not the technical correct terms.

00:29:05   If you are the type of person who likes things to be neat and tidy, you are either doomed

00:29:10   to have a thing in your house that annoys you forever or to spend 17 hours with tweezers

00:29:14   trying to pull this plastic crap out of the seams.

00:29:17   Please, appliance manufacturers, never do this.

00:29:20   It's cruel.

00:29:21   It is cruel and unusual.

00:29:22   Oh, my goodness.

00:29:24   Either people aren't going to pull the vinyl off.

00:29:27   They're going to ignore that sticker and it's going to be there forever.

00:29:29   And it's probably fine because like I said, there are holes put in the vents.

00:29:32   I don't see how it could have been a big deal.

00:29:33   Or once you start peeling it and you realize what you're in for, you're like, "Oh no."

00:29:37   So the thing is like this clear and it's all I can do every time I go over there is to

00:29:41   stop trying to pick one of those little things.

00:29:43   And of course, as you pick it out and it stretches and it rips, all it does is make the thing

00:29:46   so small that you can't grab it anymore.

00:29:48   Like the little toughs and, oh, the worst.

00:29:51   I believe this is the worst thing, the worst thing that's ever happened to me from an appliance

00:29:55   unpacking experience. If I had bought this I would have returned it immediately. Not

00:30:00   that I ever would have bought this. Anyway, LG, I don't know what you are thinking. Like,

00:30:06   I just, and never mind the fact that if there's any part of this that gets hot, like the parts

00:30:09   that are down near the bottom, it's gonna slowly melt that plastic that's caught between

00:30:12   the seams. Holy cow. I should take, if I had better like macro photography skills I would

00:30:17   take a picture of this thing. It's just, it is the worst. So anyway, not a toaster, terrible

00:30:22   vinyl wrapped around the whole thing, giant thumbs down.

00:30:24   Is it a robot?

00:30:26   Not.

00:30:27   Toaster or not.

00:30:29   Thanks a lot to Cards Against Humanity for sponsoring our show once again.

00:30:34   Alright, so today was it I believe? It was today within the last day or two as we record this.

00:30:41   The Apple Music Free Trial ended for those of us who are day one adopters.

00:30:45   Did you guys renew yes or no? I did not.

00:30:49   - I did.

00:30:51   I'm still on the fence, but I still use it occasionally.

00:30:57   I probably don't use it 10 or $15 a month worth,

00:31:01   but I do use it occasionally.

00:31:03   - All right, what about you, Jon?

00:31:04   Did you even do the trial?

00:31:06   - I did, I did the trial, and for the most part,

00:31:09   I was enjoying it.

00:31:10   I've never used a streaming service before.

00:31:12   Casey, you were in the same boat, right?

00:31:13   I'm not gonna use Spotify, right?

00:31:15   - That's correct, I use Spotify.

00:31:17   Anyway, I'd never used a streaming service before,

00:31:20   and so just the novelty of like,

00:31:21   oh, I can go listen to any song I want whenever I want

00:31:23   was interesting.

00:31:25   And that part mostly worked,

00:31:27   and I did look at the recommendations

00:31:28   in the little for you section

00:31:30   and tried to do some discovery stuff there.

00:31:32   I kind of enjoyed wandering through their playlists

00:31:34   and laughing at their playlists.

00:31:36   I did discover Lana Del Rey,

00:31:37   who I had never heard of before, through these lists.

00:31:40   And what I did when I discovered an artist that I like

00:31:43   is I just bought songs because I didn't want to just say,

00:31:46   oh, add these in my collection,

00:31:48   and then have to figure out later if I didn't renew.

00:31:51   So anyway, I just found the songs

00:31:51   and I bought them the old-fashioned way,

00:31:53   like for $1.29 each.

00:31:54   And so now when I didn't renew Apple Music,

00:31:58   all those songs were still there.

00:31:59   And I didn't renew, not because I didn't like it,

00:32:01   it's just because I didn't like it

00:32:03   whatever it is, like $15 a month worth.

00:32:05   It was not working out economically speaking for me,

00:32:08   because I do like a way to discover music,

00:32:11   but realistically speaking, you can discover music,

00:32:16   You can search for it anywhere, you can use some other streaming service, you can just

00:32:19   ask friends and then go illegally download a song and then buy it for when you find the

00:32:23   artist that you like.

00:32:24   There are other ways to do music discovery than Apple Music.

00:32:28   And Apple Music wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either.

00:32:32   I don't know.

00:32:33   I kind of like the idea that I could play whatever I wanted, it's just a little bit

00:32:38   too expensive for me.

00:32:40   The bugs that everyone complained about, I didn't get hit by any of those, but I was

00:32:43   wary of them always, mostly because I think my music collection doesn't suffer from the

00:32:47   things like, poor Jim Dow Rimp has got like 50 versions of the same song from different

00:32:51   albums and album music gets all confused.

00:32:54   I generally don't have that problem.

00:32:56   If I do have lots of copies of the same song, they're like from CD rips and I name them

00:33:01   differently, and iTunes is not confused by them because it can't make heads or tails

00:33:04   of them, so it's just going by my metadata, which is all distinct.

00:33:08   And album music really just, maybe it's because album music, like I said early on when we

00:33:12   talking about the service just doesn't have enough of the obscure stuff that I like.

00:33:16   Its selection of mashups, for example, is not great because most of those are illegal.

00:33:23   And its selection of video game music is not really that great.

00:33:26   Movie soundtracks it's a little bit better with.

00:33:28   But anyway, I would like to continue to do it, but I couldn't justify the cost.

00:33:34   I almost did it.

00:33:35   I almost said, "You know what?

00:33:37   I like it.

00:33:38   I do like it."

00:33:39   Just look at the price and I say I do not like it $15 a month birth

00:33:43   I just don't I like iTunes match $25 a year worth easily

00:33:46   So I'll just keep renewing that until they cancel the program and then I'll be sad

00:33:49   But no didn't renew it but through no real fault of Apple music. I tried Spotify back in the day

00:33:57   I'm just not

00:33:58   the way I listen to music just doesn't lend itself to getting a lot of value out of streaming services because I'm very particular and

00:34:03   I want to sort of pick the songs that I like and occasionally I want to go out into the wider world find new songs

00:34:08   with new artists they like and I just bring them back to my collection and I listen to

00:34:12   them there.

00:34:13   So, sorry Apple Music, but you know, and it was a little bit annoying when it was expiring

00:34:18   because it kind of let me still use the UI and it kept bringing up this dialogue that

00:34:21   says Apple Music has expired.

00:34:22   I'm like, well, fine, hide it from the UI for me.

00:34:24   Why do I have to go on iOS and say show Apple Music yes/no?

00:34:28   Once it's expired, stop showing it.

00:34:29   I don't know.

00:34:30   Anyway, they're just trying to get me to resubscribe, but I'm glad I had successfully done, figured

00:34:35   out how to stop the auto-renew because a few times I was paranoid about it. Is auto-renew

00:34:39   really off? Is this going to auto-renew? It didn't auto-renew. Everything was fine.

00:34:43   Yeah, they don't make that incredibly easy or clear, but I don't know. I think Apple

00:34:49   Music on the whole is, I wouldn't necessarily say it's quite this bad, but it's kind of

00:34:56   like Apple's Surface, where they really tried to have this no-compromises, everything all

00:35:04   all in one thing with iTunes and your local music

00:35:08   and iTunes match and Apple Music

00:35:11   and throw in the connect thing,

00:35:13   which I don't know if anybody's using that,

00:35:14   like all the social stuff.

00:35:15   So they're trying to throw all this stuff into one product

00:35:19   and the usability I think suffered tremendously,

00:35:23   first of all.

00:35:24   Even if everything worked properly all the time,

00:35:26   which it doesn't, but even if it did work properly

00:35:29   all the time, it is a design disaster.

00:35:32   It is really, really hard to use, to figure out, to know what mode you're in and where

00:35:37   your music is and whether you have your music or not.

00:35:39   It is really tough.

00:35:41   And it's part of that, I think it's just that it's a really big problem to be solved and

00:35:45   no one could have designed it well.

00:35:47   But they also didn't design it that well.

00:35:51   I think it could have been designed better, but even in the best implementation it wouldn't

00:35:55   have been great just because the problem is too weird and complex to cram into a good

00:35:59   design.

00:36:00   But it is very confusing.

00:36:01   It does have a lot of functionality,

00:36:03   but it's very hard to find it, and it's very unreliable.

00:36:07   In my experience, playing songs off of it,

00:36:11   like I'll play through a whole album,

00:36:13   and every third or fourth track will either be skipped,

00:36:17   or it will stop in the middle,

00:36:18   and then it'll advance to the next one.

00:36:20   Like, it's very unreliable for me.

00:36:22   - Is that over cellular?

00:36:23   - No, that's on my desktop at home.

00:36:26   - So I didn't have that problem.

00:36:28   I tried it over cellular a few times,

00:36:29   and I'm always in these zones where I get like one dot

00:36:32   on my stupid cell signal, so I blamed it on that.

00:36:34   But desktop, it's always more or less worked for me.

00:36:37   I haven't had any big delays.

00:36:38   The songs start playing immediately,

00:36:40   never skipped, never did.

00:36:41   Maybe I was just like, yeah, I'm obviously not a heavy user

00:36:43   and I have heard people reporting what you said,

00:36:45   but that's the thing with like things that have,

00:36:48   that are largely or in this case,

00:36:50   like primarily a server-side phenomenon,

00:36:53   depending on what the weather is like in iCloud, you know?

00:36:56   Like if it's bad weather when you're trying to do it,

00:36:58   piece of crap and nothing works, right? And if it's good, again, it goes back to like the bits on

00:37:02   your disk are the same as the bits on my disk, but depending on what the weather is like in Apple

00:37:05   Server Farm that day, it could just totally not work and be a piece of crap, and then when I do

00:37:09   it, everything could be fine because it's a different time. And it's, you know, the servers

00:37:13   are responding now. They're actually, you know, or maybe I'm getting different ones because it's like,

00:37:17   you know, it's UIP routing for a different CDN or whatever the hell it is. That's the frustrating

00:37:22   and inscrutable thing about cloud services. It's like, it's not just one thing that you can get

00:37:26   get your hands on it. It really is more like the weather.

00:37:29   Yeah, and unfortunately, this is exactly the kind of problem where Apple historically has

00:37:35   done very badly. They really aren't as good as the other tech giants at making sure that

00:37:42   things that are dependent on internet infrastructure and CDNs and everything being different in

00:37:47   different places, making sure that works well for the most number of people. Apple traditionally

00:37:52   is not very good at that. Netflix does it way better. Amazon and Google do it way better.

00:37:56   Facebook I think is their own universe over there.

00:38:00   They do it fine.

00:38:01   I mean, it just seems like this is the kind of thing

00:38:03   that Apple does not do very well.

00:38:05   And they haven't.

00:38:06   - It's an insidious problem because you can imagine

00:38:09   complaining to an Apple executive like,

00:38:11   hey, I tried to use your thing and it didn't work

00:38:14   or whatever and they could be like,

00:38:17   I'm totally gonna fix that for you.

00:38:18   That's unacceptable, I've gotta have that work.

00:38:20   And so maybe they'll try it themselves

00:38:22   and it'll probably work.

00:38:23   And they'll go back to the team and they'll be like,

00:38:25   this person said this thing happened and, you know, whatever.

00:38:28   And they'll be like, well, you know, what are you talking about?

00:38:30   Everything's fine.

00:38:31   Like it's always fine when you look like after the fact.

00:38:34   And if it was just bad weather that day, like, well, well, you know,

00:38:38   if you're not if you're not really obsessive about metrics and measuring

00:38:43   measuring the actual experience of all of your users,

00:38:46   it's very easy to convince yourself and others inside the company

00:38:50   that everything's fine because look at our uptime.

00:38:52   It's like this number of nines.

00:38:53   and we are always up and we're always responding

00:38:56   and our response times are good and so on and so forth.

00:38:58   It's like, what is the end user experience?

00:39:02   Maybe your servers are up

00:39:03   but maybe your network routing is messed up

00:39:05   or maybe for some point there was some corrupted CDN

00:39:07   that was giving bad data that was causing the thing

00:39:10   to repeatedly retry or whatever.

00:39:12   If that stuff isn't visible to you,

00:39:14   you can think everything is great.

00:39:15   You can think all the metrics,

00:39:18   all the things that you're measuring are great.

00:39:19   Every time an executive gets angry

00:39:20   and checks for him or herself, everything is fine.

00:39:23   But then when you go to the engineering team, they're like, you know, and you try to tell them what the problem is

00:39:28   Like well show me show me what's wrong and every time you know, every time an active executive does it it works great, right or

00:39:33   Maybe it doesn't work for a second, but they try it again and it works and like oh, I guess everything's fine

00:39:38   It's so easy to convince yourself that there's nothing that needs to be done

00:39:41   Because you don't have the same experience as someone else had or you have it for a second and then it gets better

00:39:46   It's like well, I guess this is fixed forever. I never need to look at this again

00:39:50   It's you know server-side stuff

00:39:52   You have to have a different philosophy than you do like making products is making products

00:39:56   You look at them how they come off the line and they measure like return rates and stuff

00:39:59   And I think they have a handle on how to figure out whether they're making quality products in that way

00:40:02   but for service I stuff I think they just don't have I

00:40:05   Feel like if they had the metrics

00:40:09   They would be improving more rapidly. Whatever metrics they have are

00:40:13   Convincing them that things aren't as bad as they are and maybe the only one they care about is like in the end

00:40:18   I don't care about this crap all I care about is customer stat right customer satisfaction

00:40:22   It's like in the high 90s and everything's fine

00:40:24   And then I just get back to success hides problems because there are lots of things that are awesome about Apple and iOS devices

00:40:29   And we all love them

00:40:30   But that can hide the fact that as Marco said and I think as we all kind of feel

00:40:34   They're a little bit behind everyone else in the cloud stuff in terms of reliability not a lot

00:40:40   It's not a piece of crap. It does it works. You know

00:40:42   Most of the time in fact the vast vast vast majority of the time. It's like but when it doesn't work

00:40:48   It is just so infuriating and you can only do that a certain number of times before people are like you know what?

00:40:54   I'm just gonna use Dropbox because Dropbox failed me once in the three years

00:40:59   I've used it and this has failed me once in the one year. I've used it therefore

00:41:02   You are bad like what do you mean once in the year? We have five nines. We're blah blah blah

00:41:06   it's like yeah, but Dropbox seems more reliable and I

00:41:10   Know that's that's the world of server-side. It's tough

00:41:14   You know, it's to come back to why why not renew Apple music for in my case anyway

00:41:20   I loved the Siri integration being able to say, you know

00:41:25   Siri play such-and-such album or play songs by such-and-such artists. That was awesome. Really really liked it

00:41:32   I also kind of liked being able to say, you know, I really like this album

00:41:35   Just treat it as though I own it and I know that's a very polarizing

00:41:39   Approach some people love that some people hated it. I liked it

00:41:43   But what I kept coming back to was I just didn't care for the way in which you

00:41:50   find music within iTunes, and I know it's so

00:41:54   It's so obvious to complain and moan about iTunes and so I'm not going to go on about it

00:42:01   but suffice to say I just really didn't care for the interface in iTunes and I

00:42:05   really like

00:42:07   Spotify's

00:42:08   UI I mean it has its own problems for sure

00:42:11   But if I want to find and play a piece of music in Spotify, it's very quick and very easy.

00:42:18   And I found an Apple Music on both the Mac and on iOS. Maybe it's just I think differently.

00:42:23   Maybe this is another example of Twitterific versus Tweetbot.

00:42:26   You know, in that sense I come down from in the Tweetbot camp. Twitterific is somewhat inscrutable to me.

00:42:32   And in this case, I come down in the Spotify camp. It doesn't mean that Spotify is by necessity better.

00:42:38   It's just it works better for my brain. And so that's why I'm not renewing. Plus,

00:42:43   I'm kind of the DJ for the house, so I didn't need to worry about family things.

00:42:46   Erin very rarely listens to music that isn't on the radio. So, and Beats 1 was not her thing.

00:42:51   So that's why I did it.

00:42:53   But there's certainly a lot to like with Apple Music for sure, and I don't want to lose sight of that because there's

00:42:58   It is pretty damn magical to say play songs by, you know, Bill Withers or something and next thing you know,

00:43:04   you're listening to some pretty good

00:43:06   Pretty good music. So there's stuff like just wasn't for me

00:43:09   I like the aesthetics of Apple music better than Spotify that the one time I tried Spotify

00:43:14   Maybe six months ago for an extended period I don't know if it was there

00:43:18   Their weird icon or the color the way the UI looks it just looked like it was like a weird non-native web

00:43:24   So I guess all the stuff in iTunes is webby stuff. Anyway, it just taste wise it seemed it

00:43:30   Didn't match my taste as well as the Apple music stuff does functionality wise it was fine

00:43:36   but it seemed a lot like I was using like, I don't know, like a weird, it was

00:43:44   like a GUI made with Linux or something. It didn't look right, it didn't

00:43:49   fit, and just it was not pleasant to look at. Apple stuff is

00:43:55   always pleasant to look at, but a lot of it I would struggle to find the UI or

00:43:59   I'd say like, "Oh, you've got a big giant play button on this recommended

00:44:02   playlist for me. It would be nice to have more functionality here until I click

00:44:05   into it or whatever, but I thought whoever did like the sort of, it's basically web design,

00:44:08   whoever did the web design for Apple Music did a pretty good job. They have a lot of

00:44:11   nice artwork and most of the things they present you have. I'm always surprised the amount

00:44:17   of sort of custom artwork they have available for artists and playlists and stuff. They

00:44:23   did a lot of work to basically add graphics for even the most obscure artists, not just

00:44:27   album art, but also background images, pictures of the artists and stuff like that. And color

00:44:33   themes and all the other stuff they do. It's actually something inside iTunes that I think

00:44:37   looks nice, which is a nice change.

00:44:40   All right. Any other thoughts, Marco? Or are you good?

00:44:42   Nah, I think I'm good. I mean, I'm going to keep using it because I do like—when

00:44:47   I want to go explore and find new artists, I do like being able to go and play their

00:44:53   entire album straight through, or at least most of the songs, or the first half of most

00:44:58   of the songs before they die and cut out. That part is very frustrating. But I do like

00:45:02   I like the idea of being able to play through

00:45:05   an entire album before I buy it.

00:45:08   That being said, it's just so half-assed.

00:45:11   Like the whole, all of Apple Music is so half-assed.

00:45:16   I feel like I should probably try something else instead.

00:45:19   Because, and ultimately, unfortunately,

00:45:22   Apple Music has really destroyed the iOS Music app.

00:45:27   It hasn't done as much damage to desktop iTunes.

00:45:30   up iTunes, I can still use my way and it mostly doesn't get in the way. If canceling my membership

00:45:36   to Apple Music would restore the iOS music app to the way it was before, I would do it

00:45:43   in a heartbeat. You know, it seems like Apple Music is here to stay and it's going to keep

00:45:51   taking prominence in Apple's stuff because it is an important business interest they

00:45:56   have. So the business needs of Apple Music are going to keep influencing the direction

00:46:01   of music and music integration on all of their platforms. And they've shown repeatedly that

00:46:06   they're very, very happy to destroy iTunes and iOS music app usability in the name of

00:46:14   promoting the new thing they're doing in music. And right now it's Apple Music and that's

00:46:19   probably going to be the thing for a while. I wish things were better there. I wish either

00:46:25   that they didn't destroy it in the name of Apple Music,

00:46:28   or that just Apple Music was better than it is.

00:46:30   And maybe over time it will get better, I hope it does.

00:46:34   - We're still ripe for, as we talked about

00:46:36   when Apple Music was announced,

00:46:37   we're still ripe for a photos-like simplification

00:46:40   and unification of music.

00:46:42   They're close to it now, right?

00:46:43   They're lurching towards it with iTunes Match

00:46:46   and Apple Music, and this whole, you know,

00:46:48   they've done a reasonable integration of like,

00:46:50   hey, if you sign up for Apple Music,

00:46:51   you have the access to all this music,

00:46:53   and you can say whether you like it or not,

00:46:55   And like Casey said, you can add it to your collection,

00:46:56   now it's like your music,

00:46:57   and you can actually also still buy it,

00:46:59   so that if you, like I did,

00:47:00   so if you unsubscribe from Apple Music,

00:47:02   these songs don't go away because you actually bought them,

00:47:04   but you discovered them through Apple Music.

00:47:06   They're close, it just doesn't need to be 17 different plans

00:47:09   all integrated with each other.

00:47:09   It just needs to be one unified interface

00:47:11   where every single song in the world

00:47:14   is either part of your music,

00:47:16   part of your music that you own,

00:47:17   or it'll go, I mean, it's basically conceptually

00:47:20   the same as what it is now.

00:47:21   Like, I'm just describing exactly what the situation is now,

00:47:23   but it's complicated now because it is,

00:47:26   there's iTunes with nothing,

00:47:27   there's iTunes match which you pay for separately,

00:47:29   and there's Apple Music which you pay for separately.

00:47:31   And there are separate tabs that you go to

00:47:33   that are specific to Apple Music,

00:47:35   then there are ones that are just your music,

00:47:36   then there's a hybrid.

00:47:37   Like, I'm not subscribed to Apple Music anymore,

00:47:39   but I still have the hearts next to my things,

00:47:40   and I can click on them and it encourages me.

00:47:42   It says, yeah, click on more hearts,

00:47:44   'cause that will tell us what kind of songs you like.

00:47:45   I'm like, you're not gonna recommend anything to me anymore

00:47:48   because I'm unsubscribed from Apple Music,

00:47:49   and there's still iTunes,

00:47:50   oh, forgot about iTunes Genius.

00:47:51   There's still iTunes Genius,

00:47:52   or maybe is the genius using the hearts?

00:47:54   That's still there.

00:47:55   There's a lot-- I don't know.

00:47:56   There's a lot of crap in there.

00:47:57   And so I think they've got all the functionality.

00:48:00   It just needs to be like history eraser button, clean slate,

00:48:04   and say, OK, we're finally admitting that music

00:48:06   collections live in the cloud like photos.

00:48:09   We keep the canonical copies.

00:48:11   You can tell your Mac to download all of them.

00:48:13   Basically, what they did with photos

00:48:14   only was much, much better performance, please,

00:48:16   and fewer bugs.

00:48:17   But conceptually, they have everything that they need.

00:48:21   They finally agreed that the files on your disk

00:48:25   aren't the canonical copy that they can kind of do.

00:48:27   iTunes match, iTunes in the cloud matching things,

00:48:29   and they just need to get better about like the,

00:48:31   sort of keeping track of everything they did.

00:48:33   Hey, we found this file on your computer on this date,

00:48:36   and this was the file, and we're never gonna get rid of it,

00:48:38   we're gonna preserve it forever,

00:48:39   but by the way, if you would like to replace it

00:48:41   with this DRM-free 256 kilobit blah, blah, blah song,

00:48:45   you can, but if we did the wrong matching for us,

00:48:47   tell us and you can get your old one back.

00:48:50   I feel like anybody who's used any of these features

00:48:51   can spec out everything that they want.

00:48:53   And it's a massive simplification if you just say,

00:48:55   this is not seven programs and 15 features.

00:48:57   This is one thing, they should have just called it

00:48:59   Apple Music, just like it's called Photos or whatever.

00:49:02   It's one thing and there are different things

00:49:04   that you can pay for for different services

00:49:06   and it is completely unified and it's just like

00:49:08   a cloud-based music library with streaming features

00:49:13   and all that other stuff.

00:49:14   So I don't know if that also has to come

00:49:16   with an iTunes rewrite, I don't know if that has to come

00:49:17   with a backend rewrite as they slowly unify,

00:49:20   iTunes Genius, iTunes Match, and all the other stuff,

00:49:22   but I think we are going in the right direction.

00:49:26   We're just, we are in a transitional phase now.

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00:52:11   real-time follow-up you can get rid of what Apple calls "loves". They're not likes

00:52:16   because "like" is not passionate enough for a company like Apple. Apple loves music

00:52:21   and also probably Facebook has a trademark on "likes" or whatever. Anyway.

00:52:23   I think Eddie Q loves music. Yeah. So in iTunes preferences under the general

00:52:29   tab in preferences there's a pop-up menu for ratings you can pick stars, loves, or

00:52:33   stars and loves. So I guess I can go to it and change it back to stars and not see the

00:52:36   loves anymore but... Wait, what's the difference? Oh, the stars are the one through five, I

00:52:40   Yes, and the loves are the hearts, and the hearts are relevant to Apple Music.

00:52:45   I was doing that when I was going through their playlist and saying, "Well, I like this,

00:52:48   I like that," and so it can recommend songs for you and it encourages you.

00:52:52   It says, "Good, keep clicking those hearts because that lets us know what you like and

00:52:55   we can make better playlists for you."

00:52:56   But now that I'm not subscribed to Apple Music, it's not going to be making any more playlists

00:52:59   for me, unless iTunes Genius is still in there, but it probably isn't.

00:53:03   I always disabled iTunes Genius because it always made iTunes either crash or gobble

00:53:07   up memory until memory was exhausted on my machine, which was always fun.

00:53:10   And I'd watch it in the process thing.

00:53:13   It would grow by like a gigabyte a minute, right?

00:53:15   And that has bad effects after not too many minutes.

00:53:20   And the only way to get it to stop back in the day was for me to just deactivate Genius.

00:53:25   I've had it off everywhere.

00:53:26   Like every time I launched iTunes, it'd be like, "Trying to send Genius to it?"

00:53:28   I'm like, "No, stop.

00:53:29   Don't do that.

00:53:30   Whatever it is you're doing, you're not going to do it well.

00:53:33   Stop."

00:53:34   Anyway, iTunes is confusing.

00:53:36   Alright then. Do you know what? Do you want to wear the pajamas with stars or

00:53:41   would you prefer the pajamas with cars? Read that book all the time. What? It's a

00:53:46   Sandra Boynton book. It's a reference. Don't worry about it. I know, I know a lot

00:53:50   of her books. I don't know that one. Night-night little pookie. Anyway, moving

00:53:54   on. So I received an iPhone 6s and Aaron received a iPhone 6s. Marco, I presume

00:54:02   you and Tiff both received iPhone 6s? That's right. That makes everybody in the

00:54:06   world except John. That is correct. I'm gonna have one in the house eventually. My wife's

00:54:09   gonna get one. Just think of all the things you could be force pushing in the meantime.

00:54:13   I know. I got to try one at work. I was excited by it. This is the big story, I think. Now

00:54:19   that everyone has their successes, you guys have it, and everyone else in the world who

00:54:24   ordered on day one has their thing, the word on the street is that 3D touch, please don't

00:54:31   call it force touch anymore, is the bee's knees.

00:54:34   - I would agree with that.

00:54:36   With an asterisk, I think it's very cool.

00:54:39   I think it's going to be even cooler.

00:54:42   The problems I have with 3D touch,

00:54:44   the biggest one is I forget that that's a thing,

00:54:46   and so I don't think to try it.

00:54:48   And the other problem is a lot of third party apps

00:54:50   just haven't embraced it yet,

00:54:52   which I mean, it's not third party developers' faults.

00:54:55   They barely had any time with it so far.

00:54:57   But like when I discovered it in Instagram,

00:55:01   I just thought it was the most amazing thing ever.

00:55:03   And I've been 3D touching all the things,

00:55:06   which is kind of funny because--

00:55:07   Ew.

00:55:09   Because most of the touch targets in Instagram

00:55:12   that do have a 3D touch affordance

00:55:14   are fairly small because they're text.

00:55:17   I really like the 3D touch.

00:55:18   I think it's very, very cool.

00:55:20   I'm very anxious and excited to see what third party

00:55:24   devs do with it in the future.

00:55:26   And what was very interesting to me was,

00:55:29   somebody retweeted somebody else that I retweeted,

00:55:31   we'll put the link in the show notes,

00:55:33   apparently it's available via JavaScript as well.

00:55:35   So you can do this on the web as well.

00:55:38   I don't know if that's gonna be useful or not,

00:55:40   but I just think that's kinda cool that it's exposed,

00:55:42   whether or not anyone ever does anything neat with it.

00:55:45   - Yeah, I have a similar problem as you

00:55:48   where I keep forgetting that it's a thing I can do,

00:55:50   but I'm sure over time that we'll all get used to it

00:55:52   and consider it a really cool shortcut.

00:55:54   There is a significant discoverability issue with it,

00:55:58   where there's really no way to tell

00:56:00   that something can be force-touched

00:56:01   without just pushing all over the place

00:56:03   and just seeing what happens.

00:56:04   And I kinda worry that it's gonna be a little bit

00:56:06   like the old days of Siri,

00:56:07   where we're gonna try it on a bunch of stuff,

00:56:09   most of it's not gonna work,

00:56:10   and then we're just gonna forget

00:56:11   to try it again for a while.

00:56:13   You know, that happened a lot with Siri at the beginning,

00:56:17   where it would fail a couple times,

00:56:18   and you'd be like, "Well, I guess I'm not gonna try

00:56:20   "that again."

00:56:20   - But even Siri, I think the 3D Touch

00:56:22   has the same effect as Siri in that people are like,

00:56:25   "Well, Siri's messed up and doesn't do what I want,

00:56:26   "but I still use it to set timers,

00:56:28   "but I still use it to set reminders."

00:56:30   Like, everyone found the one really, really easy thing

00:56:32   they could have Siri do,

00:56:33   so maybe people are gonna 3D touch everything,

00:56:36   not find any new places to use it,

00:56:38   but the two places where they do use it,

00:56:39   they're gonna use it there all the time.

00:56:40   - Siri still can't start the stopwatch.

00:56:43   - I know, I know.

00:56:44   I also can't set reminders for, what is it, 10 minutes?

00:56:47   Whatever its frequency is, it drives me nuts.

00:56:49   "Sorry, I can't set something that frequent."

00:56:50   Why, why can't you do it?

00:56:52   Wait, what do you have to be reminded of every 10 minutes?

00:56:56   Stir the sauce, man.

00:56:58   Of course.

00:56:59   Remind me to stir the sauce every 10 minutes.

00:57:00   Siri's like, "Sorry, I can't do that."

00:57:03   You don't care about my sauce, Siri?

00:57:04   You just want it to stick?

00:57:06   You just want it to burn on the bottom?

00:57:08   I'm so glad I asked.

00:57:09   So seriously, that is my use case for it.

00:57:13   So then what I have to do is remind you to stir the sauce in 10 minutes, and then it

00:57:18   does, and then I've got to set another reminder for the next 10 minutes.

00:57:21   I don't understand how this is better

00:57:22   than setting it every 10 minutes.

00:57:24   Speaking of iOS things that are,

00:57:26   I guess maybe they're, the only thing I can think of

00:57:28   is like, it's going off all the time

00:57:32   and people don't know how to stop it or whatever.

00:57:34   That's the only logic I can think of,

00:57:36   or maybe they're afraid it's gonna hurt battery life.

00:57:38   I have no idea.

00:57:38   Anyway, I had someone today who had a problem

00:57:41   with their iPhone and wanted to come over

00:57:44   and have me look at it and see if I could fix their iPhone.

00:57:46   I'm like, oh, what is this gonna be?

00:57:47   Maybe they got that thing wedged

00:57:49   they're gonna need the whole machine re-image,

00:57:51   or they're gonna have to do an iTunes backup locally

00:57:53   and then restore it from the backup

00:57:55   or force an application to download

00:57:57   or do something like that.

00:57:58   No, what actually happened is they had

00:58:00   triple tapped the home button.

00:58:02   And it enabled voiceover.

00:58:03   And they're like, it's like,

00:58:05   all it does is say everything that's on the screen.

00:58:08   It was iOS 6.

00:58:10   Anyway, yeah, I turned that off for them.

00:58:13   But yeah, I guess that's the thinking behind

00:58:16   the not every 10 minutes.

00:58:19   But anyway, circling all the way back to 3D Touch,

00:58:22   yeah, I think that's, as I said in the impasse shows,

00:58:25   the lack of discoverability is going to be a detriment,

00:58:29   especially in the beginning when apps haven't implemented it

00:58:32   so you have to experiment.

00:58:33   Like, boy, I wonder, you know,

00:58:35   the first update comes and they say

00:58:36   they have 3D Touch support.

00:58:37   I wonder what the hell they did.

00:58:39   Or does this app have 3D Touch support?

00:58:40   I'll just start shoving things.

00:58:42   But the benefit is that if you're not into 3D Touch,

00:58:48   My brief experience with the 6S's of friends that I've tried

00:58:51   and from talking to people is that

00:58:53   if you don't know 3D Touch is this, it doesn't bother you.

00:58:56   Like it doesn't get in your way.

00:58:58   It is not an essential feature that you have.

00:59:00   Like the lack of discoverability is a feature

00:59:02   and a detriment.

00:59:03   It's a detriment to people like us

00:59:04   who really wanna be like power users

00:59:05   and make sure we're using things in the most efficient way.

00:59:08   And so we're going to be shoving our fingers into the screen

00:59:10   to find out where we can use it.

00:59:11   But for everybody else, if they don't know 3D Touch exists,

00:59:14   it does not bother them at all.

00:59:16   And so it is completely invisible.

00:59:17   It's a feature that is a benefit if they know it's there

00:59:19   and it is not a detriment if they don't know it's there.

00:59:23   Which is the best kind of thing

00:59:24   because I can imagine someone will have a success

00:59:25   for like a year and then someone will show them

00:59:27   3D touch on the camera or they'll do it accidentally once

00:59:30   and be like, wow, that's great.

00:59:32   Although the default settings,

00:59:33   I was surprised at how hard I had to press.

00:59:35   I don't know if anyone would do it accidentally.

00:59:37   The first time I tried to 3D touch something,

00:59:39   I long pressed it and all the icons started wiggling

00:59:41   'cause I wasn't pressing hard enough.

00:59:42   That's the defaults.

00:59:43   I knew it was there.

00:59:44   So what is that, three settings,

00:59:46   like soft, medium, hard, or whatever.

00:59:48   - Also in the 6S, the Taptic Engine, really like it.

00:59:54   Can't really tell you why, I just like it.

00:59:56   I feel like it's much crisper vibration.

00:59:58   I found, I caught myself constantly mashing on

01:00:03   like the Tweetbot icon on my home screen,

01:00:05   just to get that doo doo doo.

01:00:06   I find it so entertaining, I don't know why,

01:00:08   it's the silliest thing in the world.

01:00:10   But I really enjoy the Taptic Engine.

01:00:14   I think it's well done.

01:00:15   It's worth a little bit of extra weight,

01:00:17   'cause that's what everyone's been saying, right?

01:00:18   That that and the 3D Touch sensors

01:00:21   is the added weight over the 6, is that right?

01:00:23   - Or maybe it could also just be the shell.

01:00:26   Like the shell got thicker

01:00:28   and a little bit heavier and stuff, so.

01:00:29   - Yeah, it's only a handful of grams anyway,

01:00:31   so I think it's probably everything,

01:00:32   but I would imagine the screen is the majority of it

01:00:35   because the Taptic Engine is mostly air

01:00:37   and it's probably less dense than the battery

01:00:39   that it replaced.

01:00:40   - Yeah, that's probably true.

01:00:42   I did, when I first got the phone, I did immediately notice that it was, it felt substantially

01:00:50   heavier.

01:00:51   I think that's unfair.

01:00:52   I think it was just heavier enough that I noticed it versus the 6.

01:00:56   Now that I haven't held my 6 in several days, I don't feel like it's any different at all.

01:01:01   I put the 6S in the Apple leather case that the 6 was in, and that seemed to be just fine.

01:01:10   It seems a little tighter, but nothing egregious.

01:01:14   So thumbs up for 3D Touch, thumbs up for the Taptic Engine.

01:01:17   Live photos, two thumbs as high as I can possibly reach.

01:01:21   I think it's extremely cool.

01:01:23   And the thing about live photos that I think is going to be really cool is looking at a

01:01:27   live photo in a year, or in two years, or in three years.

01:01:30   Because I'm a very loyal user of Picture Life, and as with many of these sorts of services,

01:01:38   the Photos app on iOS, if you 3D touch that on the home screen, you can look at, you know,

01:01:43   the pictures you've taken a year ago, or two years ago, or six years ago, or ten years

01:01:46   ago, if your library goes back that far.

01:01:49   And I always love seeing those pictures.

01:01:53   When I wake up in the morning, that's one of the first things I do, is go to the PictureLife

01:01:55   app and look at those pictures, because I always get great memories from them.

01:02:00   But there are definitely times that I will look at these pictures and have no friggin'

01:02:06   idea why I took that picture or what it was off. And granted, Live Photos doesn't guarantee

01:02:11   that that problem will be fixed, but it certainly helps. And seeing a picture of Declan just

01:02:20   kind of sitting there looking adorable, but then giving it a little push and seeing the

01:02:25   context of that picture, it's just genuinely magical. And I love it. And the problem I

01:02:32   I have with live photos is that I love it so damn much that it almost makes me give

01:02:37   pause to picking up my beloved Olympus Micro Four Thirds camera because I don't want to

01:02:43   give up on that context on these pictures.

01:02:45   Aren't you annoyed by the low frame rate and low resolution?

01:02:48   Not really.

01:02:49   You will be in a decade.

01:02:50   Oh, oh, oh, absolutely I will.

01:02:52   But today, no.

01:02:53   And I think it's because I understand that we just, well, I'm assuming, I should say,

01:02:57   that we just don't have the grunt to be able to do all that at once.

01:03:01   But yes, in a decade I will be annoyed by it, but I would probably still just appreciate

01:03:06   having that context over having no context at all.

01:03:08   Yeah, and I think it's maybe the grunt, but probably even more of a factor is the size.

01:03:16   If they had, you know, if they cranked up the size, cranked up the frame rate, assuming

01:03:19   this was technically possible, cranked up the quality of the compression or whatever,

01:03:25   then you know, people take a lot of pictures.

01:03:26   If you turn all those pictures into three-second videos, that really adds up, especially on

01:03:30   16 gigabyte phones, anyway.

01:03:32   (laughing)

01:03:33   Yeah, I think that has to be a factor.

01:03:35   I'm just thinking of like,

01:03:36   when my kids were born on babies and stuff,

01:03:39   I was recording them on mini DV tapes,

01:03:43   like camcorder camcorders in standard def,

01:03:46   and they look awful.

01:03:47   I mean, like that's just, you know,

01:03:49   my childhood pictures are like in 16 millimeter

01:03:52   or whatever, eight millimeter, whatever size film,

01:03:55   as in, you know, video film type stuff was.

01:03:58   So yeah, you can't help that.

01:03:59   That's gonna be, you know, is the way it's been.

01:04:01   The thing about live pictures is,

01:04:04   it's going to be a gorgeous 12 megapixel photo

01:04:07   surrounded by really low resolution,

01:04:10   sub 30 frame rate video.

01:04:13   So, yep, better than nothing and kind of neat.

01:04:16   But actually, Casey, I'm wondering how you decide,

01:04:19   is it just a toggle on/off,

01:04:22   like do live pictures all the time

01:04:24   or is it on a per shot basis?

01:04:25   How do you decide what to make live pictures

01:04:26   or do you even have that choice?

01:04:27   So in settings, I think there's a general,

01:04:30   is it even available setting if memory serves?

01:04:34   - Well, it's just like HDR,

01:04:35   where it's a thing you push during the capture screen.

01:04:38   And you can turn it on, you can leave it on,

01:04:40   or you can turn it on and off shot by shot.

01:04:42   But it works just like HDR does.

01:04:44   - Yeah, and that's what I was driving at,

01:04:45   is that there's a little kind of like button

01:04:48   on the heads up display in the Photos app

01:04:50   that will let you toggle it on and off.

01:04:53   But I could have sworn I had seen

01:04:55   that there was a live Photos,

01:04:57   I guess I'm crazy.

01:04:58   I'm looking now and I don't see it anymore.

01:05:00   I thought that I'd seen just a general,

01:05:02   can you do a live photo, yes or no, in the settings app.

01:05:06   I think I'm wrong.

01:05:07   And what I was gonna say is what Marco just said,

01:05:09   that as you're taking a photo, as you're in the camera,

01:05:13   at the very top, there's what looks almost like a target.

01:05:16   I'm not really sure why this is the live photos icon,

01:05:19   but it's on the top dead center

01:05:22   and that turns live photos on and off.

01:05:25   - So what do you do?

01:05:26   Do you have it on all the time?

01:05:27   or do you use-- - Yes, no,

01:05:27   it's on all the time.

01:05:28   - I think also, by the way,

01:05:29   I think I saw this on the web,

01:05:30   I haven't tried it myself,

01:05:31   that even if you take everything in live photo mode,

01:05:34   you can selectively, is this right,

01:05:37   decide that after you've taken the live photo,

01:05:39   that you just want it to display

01:05:40   as a regular photo in your collection?

01:05:42   - I think that's right.

01:05:44   - Seems like it'd be a simple thing to do,

01:05:47   it'd basically just saying, just show the picture,

01:05:49   ignore the live photo-y part of it,

01:05:50   even if it was recorded.

01:05:52   I don't think it deletes the live photo-y part of it,

01:05:53   I think it just toggles it off.

01:05:54   Either way, like Auto HDR and other settings

01:05:59   that are up there in the weird swipey interface

01:06:02   in the Apple camera, I imagine people are probably

01:06:06   gonna either have live pictures on all the time

01:06:08   or turn it off, especially in the beginning.

01:06:10   If they turn it on all the time and they fill

01:06:11   their stupid 16 gigabyte phones with hundreds

01:06:14   of tiny videos, then maybe in their consultation

01:06:17   with the Apple genius and their frustration,

01:06:20   it'll come up and say, well, one way you can save space

01:06:22   is to not do all these live pictures every time.

01:06:24   or maybe people will find it annoying.

01:06:26   Because here's the other aspect of live pictures

01:06:28   that I'm speculating about

01:06:29   because I'm not using a phone that has them.

01:06:32   If you have it on all the time,

01:06:34   there is the high potential for situations

01:06:37   when taking photos of adults

01:06:38   where the before and after three seconds of video

01:06:40   is not flattering.

01:06:41   And not that you don't want it,

01:06:44   but I mean, some people are weird

01:06:46   about having the picture taken at all.

01:06:48   You wanna capture the incident when they're smiling,

01:06:51   the incident before and after

01:06:52   when they're making a weird face.

01:06:54   They're not like kids where they're cute all the time.

01:06:56   Maybe they're not happy that you have those

01:06:59   one and a half seconds bracketing

01:07:01   the reasonable picture, right?

01:07:03   So I wonder if that's also gonna be a social issue.

01:07:07   If you have live photos on all the time

01:07:09   or people are gonna be wary

01:07:10   when you're taking pictures of them,

01:07:11   that they don't just have to be pleasant

01:07:13   and smiling for an instant,

01:07:14   they have to make sure that they're not making

01:07:16   a weird face three seconds on either side.

01:07:18   I don't know.

01:07:18   - Yeah, you make a fair point,

01:07:21   But I think in the end of the day,

01:07:24   it's just going to be awesome to be able to,

01:07:26   as I keep coming back, to have that context

01:07:29   around the photo.

01:07:30   And even if it's somebody giggling beforehand

01:07:32   or making a funny face, in some ways,

01:07:34   that almost makes the picture better.

01:07:35   So you have the still life posed picture,

01:07:40   but the goofy face that led up to it or what have you.

01:07:43   I don't know, Marco, you haven't said much about it.

01:07:44   What do you think about all this?

01:07:46   - So Tiff sent me my first received live photos today.

01:07:49   She and Adam were, she went to pick them up from school

01:07:51   and they were out playing in a muddy baseball field

01:07:54   near our house and she sent me a live photo of Adam

01:07:57   like stomping on a giant mud puddle.

01:07:59   And it was pretty cool to watch.

01:08:01   I kind of got it then.

01:08:03   I was like, oh, this is kind of nice.

01:08:07   It wasn't a video, I mean it was a very, very short

01:08:09   video clip with a photo that previewed it basically.

01:08:12   So an actual video would have done a way better job

01:08:16   of showing the moment if it was intended to be in motion.

01:08:20   But it's a lot like the debate between,

01:08:25   like you were saying, between using the iPhone camera

01:08:28   versus using your fancy mirrorless.

01:08:30   And when you have your phone camera

01:08:34   versus some other type of camera,

01:08:36   one thing that is relevant, that is important,

01:08:38   is like, what are you gonna actually use?

01:08:42   People say the camera that you have with you

01:08:44   is the most important camera.

01:08:45   Like, what are you actually gonna use?

01:08:46   Like if you're actually going to take a picture

01:08:50   and think about it and get out your mirrorless camera,

01:08:52   great, it'll be way higher quality

01:08:53   than what you can get with your iPhone.

01:08:55   But if you, you know, the fact is

01:08:57   you're not gonna have it all the time,

01:08:58   and so you're better off not missing a moment

01:09:01   and just capturing it with something

01:09:04   rather than waiting until you have

01:09:06   the better camera out to capture it.

01:09:08   And so with live photos, I think it's gonna be

01:09:09   a similar kind of thing where it's like,

01:09:12   yes, you are better off switching over to video mode

01:09:15   and capturing a 4K video if what you want

01:09:18   is to capture this moment in time in a moving format.

01:09:22   Like video, an actual intentionally shot video

01:09:26   is going to be better at that for most cases.

01:09:29   But with live photos on, you can kind of,

01:09:33   you can get like half of the benefit of a video

01:09:37   with every picture without really having to think about it,

01:09:39   without having to choose that mode.

01:09:42   So that, I think you're gonna get a lot more,

01:09:45   like there are so many moments where you wanna

01:09:47   take a picture and then like, you know, afterwards

01:09:49   like, oh I wish that was, I wish I had a video of that also.

01:09:52   Like that happens a lot.

01:09:53   And so this does solve that.

01:09:55   And it isn't, I don't think it's the best implementation.

01:09:59   There's a number of implementation details

01:10:00   that I would nitpick about.

01:10:02   The quality is a big one.

01:10:05   The fact is it's good enough when you're looking

01:10:06   at it on a phone.

01:10:07   And that is how most people are looking at most pictures

01:10:09   these days, which is unfortunate because as technology

01:10:12   as phones get bigger, as screens get better,

01:10:15   these might not age very well compared to what they could be

01:10:18   if they were higher resolution

01:10:19   and especially higher frame rate would be nice.

01:10:21   But, you know, I assume we will solve that over time.

01:10:26   I really hope that the low resolution and low frame rate

01:10:31   were decided for technical reasons

01:10:34   of like this is what the sensor can do

01:10:36   rather than we don't wanna take up more space

01:10:38   in our 16 gig phones that we keep selling.

01:10:39   I really hope that was the reason.

01:10:41   So...

01:10:42   I don't know.

01:10:43   I don't feel as bothered by the low frame rate, nor the low resolution.

01:10:47   I agree with both of you.

01:10:49   In a perfect world, it would probably be better to have both.

01:10:53   But it just really doesn't bother me.

01:10:54   In fact, I would almost go so far as to say that part of the charm of it is that it's

01:10:59   really a picture that has a little motion around it.

01:11:02   And I think you hit the nail on the head, Marco, that if you're trying to catch motion,

01:11:06   a live photo is not the right way to do it.

01:11:08   A live photo, like I was saying before, is to capture a single photograph that gives

01:11:13   you a little bit of context around it.

01:11:15   And if you really want to capture video, again, I couldn't agree more that the right way

01:11:18   to do it is to capture video.

01:11:20   But I think the low frame rate, and even to a lesser degree, the low resolution is kind

01:11:26   of, I don't know, adorable in its own way, because it's kind of janky in a kind of

01:11:32   fun way.

01:11:33   I don't know.

01:11:34   That probably sounds really contradictory, but I kind of like it.

01:11:37   - It's like Instagram and the filters.

01:11:39   You want it to look like old 70s type photo.

01:11:41   - Right, except that you don't have the high-res original

01:11:44   saved to your camera roll.

01:11:45   - Yeah, fair point.

01:11:46   - Well, and also it's not harkening back to any real past

01:11:50   that actually existed unless you're considering like,

01:11:52   remember what your video looked like in 1990?

01:11:55   Digital video, it was low frame rate and crappy wrist.

01:11:57   Anyway.

01:11:58   - It's almost vine-like.

01:11:59   Like when you watch it, it's almost like a vine.

01:12:01   I mean, it's a lot shorter and that's noticeable,

01:12:03   but the benefit of it,

01:12:04   and you can kind of loop it a couple times,

01:12:06   Like it is kind of viney and I like that about it.

01:12:09   - Did you know, this is an OS feature,

01:12:11   I was messing with my thing the other day,

01:12:13   I think it was in Twitter maybe,

01:12:15   and I was swiping my finger on the screen

01:12:17   when an animated GIF was playing,

01:12:18   and you could scrub back and forth on the GIF.

01:12:20   Is that an OS level feature for displaying GIFs in Safari

01:12:24   or is that an app feature?

01:12:25   - I didn't think so.

01:12:27   - You can go, it isn't just pausing it,

01:12:29   you can actually go back and forth.

01:12:30   - Yeah, no, I move my thumb back and forth

01:12:32   and it would go forward, back, forward, back, you know.

01:12:34   It was a neat way to do it.

01:12:35   Anyway, yeah, that is another, that kind of,

01:12:38   that's not really an aesthetic,

01:12:39   that's an accidental aesthetic.

01:12:41   GIF animations, that someone should do a PhD thesis

01:12:44   if they haven't already about GIF animations.

01:12:46   How we got to this point, because like the history of GIF,

01:12:50   the dawning of GIF resolutions, the dormant phase,

01:12:53   and then having it come roaring back

01:12:54   because every single freaking browser could play it.

01:12:56   It's like, you know what?

01:12:57   I'm done with dealing with embedded video or Flash.

01:12:59   I'm just gonna do everything as GIF.

01:13:01   But it's 256 college, doesn't matter.

01:13:03   used a different 256 every frame of animation, but they're huge, doesn't matter, they play

01:13:07   everywhere and that's all that matters is it plays everywhere and it's just this incredibly

01:13:13   backwards, stupid, archaic format that nevertheless swept across the internet like a fire in the

01:13:19   plains filled with dry grass and now we're kind of stuck with it.

01:13:23   Anyway, just think, in an alternate universe where Apple was more a jokey company, there

01:13:29   would be animated GIFs surrounding your 12 megapixel photo.

01:13:32   So thank goodness for small favors, right?

01:13:34   At least it's only a low frame rate H.264 video instead.

01:13:39   So anyway, the most important question that you guys might not know the answer to is,

01:13:42   what's the default?

01:13:43   You get an iPhone 6s out of the box, is live photos on by default or off by default?

01:13:47   I believe off.

01:13:48   That's kind of a bummer because I feel like this is, this is a, I mean I guess it's easy

01:13:52   to turn on, but I don't know how many people know how to use the, I think it's not particularly

01:13:57   the whole weird swipey interface to going from videos to photos and turning auto HDR

01:14:03   on and off. I've seen a lot of people be confused with that. I know how it works, I've accidentally

01:14:08   switched modes a few times and had to take the extra 2 seconds to switch back and I find

01:14:11   it frustrating. I don't really like that UI. But it's kind of a shame that I thought it

01:14:15   was on by default.

01:14:16   Right. Neither is 4K video, by the way.

01:14:19   That's good. That shouldn't be on by default. That's like, "Well, if you really want it,

01:14:22   you have it, but this is like a... they're going to have TV ads for this that I'm never

01:14:25   going to see. Maybe they already do have TV ads for this showing, "Hey, live photos.

01:14:29   This is cool." People with babies and teenagers will love this. Adults who don't want their

01:14:35   pictures taken might not love it so much.

01:14:37   And you're going to sit there with your dead photos and not enjoy all the fun.

01:14:40   Exactly.

01:14:41   You're dead. Yeah, that would have been the political way to do it. We're not going

01:14:46   to call ours live photos. Everything else is a dead photo. We'll call them feature

01:14:50   photos.

01:14:51   Right.

01:14:52   Good real-time follow-up the gif thing you were talking about as

01:14:56   Jelly is said in the chat and as I confirmed by using his wonderful app to gift wrapped

01:15:01   That is not a system thing that must have been a Twitter effect thing

01:15:05   moving on touch ID

01:15:08   Super fast in the new phones. I wouldn't go so far as to say instant

01:15:12   I feel like most people that I've heard talk about it have said it's just so fast

01:15:17   it's instant and I wouldn't say that I mean it is really really freaking fast noticeably faster faster and

01:15:25   So fast that I am extremely pleased by it every time I use it

01:15:30   But I wouldn't say instant one thing I did want to say though very quickly about that is I found an odd behavior

01:15:36   And I'd be curious if those who are listening have heard this as well feel free to tweet at me

01:15:42   Don't worry about John and Marco I

01:15:45   I had the, I had my iPhone plugged in, my new 6S, plugged into the wall via, I believe

01:15:51   it was an iPad charger and extension and then both Apple and not Apple USB to Lightning

01:15:57   cords.

01:15:58   And for whatever reason I couldn't get my Touch ID to work.

01:16:02   I couldn't get it to work, couldn't get it to work.

01:16:03   Tried re-learning several different fingers, couldn't get it to work, couldn't get it to

01:16:08   work.

01:16:09   In fact, I wouldn't even relearn the damn fingers.

01:16:11   I was starting to get really bummed out because I thought, "Man, I've got a lemon."

01:16:14   And then for whatever reason, I unplugged my phone.

01:16:18   I don't know what possessed me to do this.

01:16:19   And everything started working instantly.

01:16:22   I didn't think much of it because that was the only time I'd had it happen.

01:16:25   And then earlier tonight, Erin had the exact same problem on her phone, which is also a

01:16:32   success.

01:16:33   And I don't know if it's this particular charger.

01:16:35   I don't know if it's gross power coming into our house.

01:16:38   I wouldn't think so, but who knows?

01:16:41   But one way or another, this is two times now that we've had this issue where Touch

01:16:46   ID just would not recognize our fingers until we unplugged the phone.

01:16:51   So I don't know what that could be, but if you did have that experience, I'd love

01:16:55   to hear about it.

01:16:56   So tweet me @CaseyLiss.

01:16:57   That's Apple's new cord protection plan, subtly discouraging you animals from using

01:17:02   your phones while they're plugged in because this is why your cords get destroyed.

01:17:06   - Mm-hmm.

01:17:06   - At least that's one possible theory,

01:17:08   as I continue my streak of never having broken

01:17:12   a 30-pin or a lightning cable in any way.

01:17:16   - I've broken some 30-pins.

01:17:17   I don't know that I've broken a lightning, though.

01:17:20   - I'm getting worried about our couch charging cable.

01:17:22   It's the end is starting to bunch up,

01:17:25   where it meets the stress boot, it's starting to wrinkle.

01:17:28   - Yeah, I've seen a lot of pictures of that phenomenon.

01:17:30   Do you use it, ever use it plugged in when you're there?

01:17:34   I usually don't, but Tiff and more importantly,

01:17:38   Adam all the time do.

01:17:40   - Kids destroy everything.

01:17:41   - Yeah.

01:17:42   - My son has bent the, like he's got an iPad 2 that he uses

01:17:46   and picture it this way, put the headphone

01:17:49   into an iPhone 2, put an Apple earbud headphone

01:17:51   to an iPhone 2 and then slam it on the ground,

01:17:54   headphone and down.

01:17:55   So the headphone is bent now, like it still works,

01:17:59   but if you hit the headphone in it,

01:18:00   it is bent just at the part where, you know,

01:18:03   it goes into the device, not a good look.

01:18:06   This is the kind of, and the smart cover

01:18:08   is slowly delaminating too, so yeah,

01:18:10   kids destroy everything. - That's no good.

01:18:12   - All right, anything else on Touch ID?

01:18:15   Marco, you were pretty effusive about it,

01:18:17   and I mean, not that I'm not,

01:18:18   but would you say I am being ridiculous,

01:18:20   or would you say that it's damn near instant,

01:18:23   but not quite instant?

01:18:25   - I agree with you, I wouldn't say instant.

01:18:26   It also depends a lot on how precisely it recognized it,

01:18:31   precisely recognized it.

01:18:34   Like, it seems like if it has a really solid match,

01:18:37   I think it can recognize it faster

01:18:39   than if it kinda has to think about it for a second,

01:18:41   you know?

01:18:42   - Yeah, yeah.

01:18:43   - So, I think the claim that Apple makes,

01:18:45   which is that it's about twice as fast,

01:18:47   I'd say that's accurate.

01:18:48   - Yeah, I would agree with that.

01:18:49   It is, again, I don't wanna sound like I'm poo-pooing it.

01:18:53   It is definitely way, way, way faster.

01:18:55   It's just, I had read or heard some of the early rumblings

01:18:59   about it as being like instant.

01:19:01   And it is instant, it is not, but gosh, it is close.

01:19:05   And I love it, I really do.

01:19:07   - Yeah, related to that is this,

01:19:08   these are the links I put in here

01:19:09   for Daniel Jalkut's thing about

01:19:10   how Siri is always listening.

01:19:12   We knew this from the keynote,

01:19:14   and I think people are looking at Apple text docs

01:19:16   or whatever, anyway.

01:19:17   The M9 chip is related to Siri,

01:19:19   and people were asking, "How does that M9 chip

01:19:21   "that tracks when you're stepping or whatever,

01:19:23   "how is that related to Siri?"

01:19:25   All this gets down to having features on your phone,

01:19:30   constantly doing something,

01:19:32   constantly sensing the outside world,

01:19:33   whether it's sensing whether you're shaking the phone

01:19:35   up and down or sensing whether you're saying,

01:19:37   hey Siri or whatever, without killing your battery.

01:19:40   So that means you can't have the main CPU

01:19:42   and the big beefy CPU, GPU, RAM, everything,

01:19:45   big combination running all the time

01:19:47   or waking up every two seconds and say,

01:19:49   did the user say, hey Siri?

01:19:50   Did the user say, hey Siri?

01:19:52   That kills your battery.

01:19:53   So this is-- - People are gonna kill us

01:19:54   for this.

01:19:55   - Maybe I'll have to bleep it.

01:19:58   - Seriously, people, just turn this feature off

01:19:59   on your phone, or give your, can you give your phone

01:20:01   a different name yet?

01:20:02   Is there another thing you can do?

01:20:03   - I don't, well, the 6S actually does like a voice training

01:20:06   thing where it, when during the intro setup,

01:20:09   after it, when it asks to enable Siri,

01:20:11   it forces you to actually train it,

01:20:13   and it kinda teaches you to say,

01:20:15   hey Siri, in your own voice, and it like forces you

01:20:17   through this process.

01:20:19   So now it seems to be matched to your voice.

01:20:22   In practice, I don't know how tightly

01:20:24   it is matched to your voice.

01:20:25   - Yeah, it would be nice if you could rename it.

01:20:27   Anyway, that problem of having a battery-powered device,

01:20:32   always sort of listening, always sensing,

01:20:35   but not killing your CPU is why the little M9

01:20:38   and the little step counter thing is there.

01:20:40   The thing that Apple does is they make dedicated hardware

01:20:42   with its own little dedicated local buffer.

01:20:45   I mean, I don't know how it works inside,

01:20:46   but I'm imagining this is a super lower power chip

01:20:49   that has this one job that just spools crap up.

01:20:52   And if it senses something that it thinks is significant,

01:20:57   it will then wake up the big CPU and say,

01:20:59   "Hey, by the way, the thing just said, hey Siri.

01:21:00   And by the way, here's the audio I recorded

01:21:02   starting when they said, hey Siri, you take it from here."

01:21:05   Like I'm just entirely speculating

01:21:07   about how this actually works.

01:21:08   But the bottom line is custom hardware

01:21:10   that it takes way less power than the actual CPU

01:21:13   to be sort of the guard, the guard post, like listening,

01:21:16   listening for anyone to say, hey Siri,

01:21:17   or counting the steps is even easier

01:21:20   because they can just sit there and tick up a counter

01:21:22   and then when the actual CPU wakes up,

01:21:23   it's like, by the way,

01:21:24   while you were just sleeping over there,

01:21:26   this many more steps took place

01:21:27   or here's the step data or whatever.

01:21:29   So that's smart use of hardware.

01:21:34   Features like that are coming all the time.

01:21:36   Touch ID is kind of like that.

01:21:38   I don't know to what extent it's already

01:21:39   completely independent where the Touch ID sensor

01:21:41   and its little secure enclave and everything

01:21:43   can work entirely independently of the CPU

01:21:45   and then just pass on the information.

01:21:47   That must be true to some degree

01:21:49   just for the security implications,

01:21:50   but the way you get these things to be more responsive

01:21:54   is not like, oh, we need the A10 CPU.

01:21:56   No, it's custom hardware to say,

01:21:59   the main part of the system

01:22:00   is not involved in this process at all.

01:22:02   This is like a sense organ

01:22:04   that relays and buffers this information,

01:22:06   and the faster you can make those little sense organs

01:22:09   while keeping them low power,

01:22:10   the better this is gonna get.

01:22:11   So Marco is pegging it at about twice the speed,

01:22:14   just like Apple said,

01:22:15   that they can do that twice the speed

01:22:16   for another two or three years.

01:22:18   it really will be instant pretty quickly,

01:22:20   'cause I don't think there's any particular limit

01:22:23   on the sensing.

01:22:24   Once you're touching it, you're touching it.

01:22:25   It's not as if you need to,

01:22:27   it needs to do this incredibly big computation.

01:22:30   You could just dump the raw sensor data out

01:22:32   once you're touching it,

01:22:34   and then it's the processing and the matching or whatever.

01:22:37   But yeah, if they can double it in one year,

01:22:41   I'm optimistic that this will eventually actually be instant.

01:22:47   - All right, anything else on the hardware?

01:22:50   I have one other quick thought about the 6S,

01:22:51   but anything else on the hardware?

01:22:53   - How's the battery been for you?

01:22:54   For me, I'd say it's about the same.

01:22:56   - I'd say it's about the same, maybe marginally worse,

01:23:01   but I also wonder if it's all in my head

01:23:03   because I've been looking out for exactly that.

01:23:05   - Right, exactly, yeah, it's hard to know.

01:23:07   - Well, if it's about the same, that means it's worse

01:23:09   because this is a fresh battery

01:23:11   versus your one-year-old 6, right?

01:23:13   So it should be better than a one-year-old 6, so.

01:23:16   Yeah, I mean, it is not dramatically different, but I would definitely not say it's better,

01:23:24   and I'm skeptical that when I say it's worse, it really honestly is.

01:23:28   It may just be me thinking it is.

01:23:30   You're also playing with your phones more, maybe.

01:23:31   Like, you just got the success, you're force-touching things, the live photos and all that other

01:23:35   stuff, so it'll probably settle down.

01:23:36   But anyway, it being a wash seems reasonable.

01:23:39   Yeah.

01:23:40   My final thought about the success—and I tweeted about this a few days ago—it was

01:23:45   interesting to me that anecdotally, based on zero facts whatsoever, I saw a lot less

01:23:51   kvetching about, "Oh, my phone wasn't available. Oh, my phone wasn't available. I really wanted

01:23:57   this in such and such color and such and such capacity, and it wasn't available." And I

01:24:01   did see some of that for the rose gold pretty quickly. But, you know, last year, my recollection

01:24:07   anyway was that by 3.15 in the morning in the one true time zone, which is Eastern time,

01:24:14   A lot of people were already starting to say, "Oh my God, my thing is sold out. Oh my gosh."

01:24:18   And I didn't see much of that this year. And in fact, somebody, I can't remember who it was, said to me,

01:24:23   they pre-ordered like two or three days before the first, the launch day.

01:24:30   And they were still able to reserve one for launch day.

01:24:33   And I just found that surprising. And so I was theorizing, this was right before the numbers came out,

01:24:38   that, well, maybe they didn't sell as many, or, you know, maybe it's just that it's easier

01:24:42   because a lot of these components are similar.

01:24:43   And then I got to thinking, well,

01:24:44   not all that many of these components are that similar.

01:24:47   And as it turns out, the numbers were through the roof.

01:24:50   And I didn't realize at the time I had talked about this,

01:24:52   but apparently the S years are always better.

01:24:55   So I don't know what to make of this.

01:24:57   Maybe it's just that Tim Cook's ops

01:24:59   are really getting that much better

01:25:01   or just getting more mature, if you will.

01:25:04   But I was impressed by how few inventory problems

01:25:07   we heard about with the exception perhaps of the rose gold.

01:25:10   Well, one aspect of that that we have here in the show notes

01:25:12   is that the A9 is being made by two different manufacturers.

01:25:15   I'm not sure if that was the case with the A8, but--

01:25:18   I think this is the first time they've ever done that.

01:25:20   Yeah, so it's a Taiwan semiconductor,

01:25:22   and Samsung are both making the A9.

01:25:24   And the most interesting thing, I think,

01:25:26   is that they're both making slightly different A9s.

01:25:28   I guess they just have different transistor layouts.

01:25:30   Maybe they're actually different sizes, different feature sizes

01:25:33   on them.

01:25:33   Anyway, we'll put a link to the chip work story

01:25:35   that they actually opened these things up

01:25:37   and sliced open the chips and took

01:25:39   look at the actual little chip that's inside the package, and lo and behold, two different

01:25:43   things. So that helps with inventory. You know, we talked about like, what is the thing

01:25:46   that is most supply constrained on these phones? It's usually the thing that's hardest to make,

01:25:50   and that's usually either something having to do with the camera sensors or something

01:25:53   having to do with the CPU/GPU system on a chip thing. And this year it looks like they

01:25:57   were able to make a lot of them. Although, I told my wife this, "Hey, people aren't getting

01:26:01   sold out and you could have just, you didn't have to wake up at 3 a.m. and you could have

01:26:04   just woke up in the morning or whatever." And she's like, "Great, I'll be able to get

01:26:06   thing right away, and then I went to the Apple website or whatever, and it's like three to

01:26:09   five weeks for the model she wanted.

01:26:12   So maybe that was just a fluke, and by the time he does buy it, there'll be plenty of

01:26:15   inventory, but it seems like it's not a bottomless pit.

01:26:20   It seems like the demand did actually exhaust supply eventually.

01:26:25   I haven't looked in recent days.

01:26:26   I'm hoping by the time her contract is up and she goes for her other phone, we can just

01:26:30   walk into an Apple store and there won't be a line of people there, and we can just get

01:26:33   the phone that she wants.

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01:29:27   All right, so you mentioned just a moment ago El Capitan, God, I still hate the name,

01:29:32   El Capitan came out today.

01:29:34   We were discussing before the show that I installed it on the machine that I'm presently

01:29:39   recording on starting at about 7.15 this evening.

01:29:43   We started recording at 9 this evening because basically I'm an idiot, but it worked out

01:29:47   okay, so I'm a genius.

01:29:49   In any case, initial impressions, already really like the split view, whatever they're

01:29:55   calling it, for having to opt side by side and full screen.

01:29:59   I think I like San Francisco.

01:30:02   I feel like every platform I see San Francisco on, my first reaction is, "Eh," and then over

01:30:08   time I end up really liking it.

01:30:11   My site does indeed support pin tabs, which I'm really excited about, because I had no

01:30:17   I had no idea if that was working or not.

01:30:19   I didn't run any of the betas.

01:30:20   This is all brand new to me, but so far so good.

01:30:23   I really like it, and I did not lose my mouse yet,

01:30:27   but Renz in the chat asked, and the mouse jiggle

01:30:30   is very creepy and kind of delightful all at once.

01:30:33   So that's my initial impressions.

01:30:36   Any other initial impressions from you guys?

01:30:39   - Well, should we do, is there gonna be

01:30:42   an official John Siracusa review of El Cap on our show,

01:30:45   Or will you kill me for even saying that?

01:30:48   I haven't even installed the GM yet.

01:30:50   God, look at you.

01:30:51   You really kicked back.

01:30:52   I know, you've graduated and suddenly it's like, whatever man.

01:30:55   Yeah, no, it's like being spoiler, it's like my new change in philosophy of trying

01:30:59   to be relatively spoiler free for the new Star Wars movies, whereas with episode one

01:31:03   I wanted to know almost everything about it, and now I'm trying an opposite approach.

01:31:07   So for OS X, it's like, you know, I installed the betas, I filled around with it, but I

01:31:12   I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna do this

01:31:14   like a regular person.

01:31:15   I see the keynote, I installed the betas,

01:31:17   I played around with it,

01:31:18   but I don't know everything about the OS.

01:31:19   I haven't been obsessively using it

01:31:21   and searching around for it and trying all sorts of things.

01:31:23   So I'm gonna read people's reviews.

01:31:24   I haven't even gotten around to reading their reviews yet,

01:31:26   but I have a lot of them saved away.

01:31:27   I'm gonna read reviews and I'm gonna learn stuff.

01:31:29   And that's a novel, exciting experience for me

01:31:32   to find out new things about the OS.

01:31:36   So I'm looking forward to installing it

01:31:37   'cause I have used the betas and, you know,

01:31:41   a lot of my betas are on a separate hard drive and a fresh install or on a computer they

01:31:44   don't use so it always feels faster because like, "Wow, with nothing installed everything

01:31:48   is faster and snappier."

01:31:49   But I'm looking forward to performance improvements and the new feature and the new font and all

01:31:54   the other stuff.

01:31:55   I'm somewhat dreading dealing with the system integrity protection stuff, but I'm hoping

01:32:00   most people have got that stuff worked out.

01:32:02   Unlike Casey, I did not rush to install it.

01:32:06   I did start downloading today.

01:32:07   I've got about half downloaded and I haven't paused.

01:32:10   But I haven't even updated Skype.

01:32:12   Skype's been wanting me to update for months.

01:32:13   And as Marco talked about with not changing stuff

01:32:16   in audio setup, I'm like, why am I updating Skype again?

01:32:20   Is there something wrong with Skype now?

01:32:21   Is it not working now that I need to do this update?

01:32:24   No.

01:32:24   No, there's kind of always something wrong with it.

01:32:26   I know, but everything is working fine.

01:32:29   So I have been saying no, no, no.

01:32:30   But I'm going to say yes now.

01:32:33   Why would I might update?

01:32:34   Because I would imagine that if there's

01:32:35   going to be any LCAP compatibility differences,

01:32:38   Like I need to install the latest Skype

01:32:39   before I upgrade the OS.

01:32:41   I have to go through the whole ritual

01:32:42   of making umpteen backups

01:32:43   and then making sure every single one of my apps

01:32:46   is up to date for the version that is compatible

01:32:48   and then doing the OS update.

01:32:50   It's not that I dread it.

01:32:52   I'm gonna upgrade, you know, by this weekend

01:32:54   I'll have all the computers in the house upgraded probably.

01:32:56   I'm usually pretty, gonna know about these things.

01:32:58   I did the same thing for Mavericks.

01:33:01   Everything was fine.

01:33:03   And Yosemite, everything was fine.

01:33:04   Your mileage may vary.

01:33:07   But yeah, I don't have anything particularly deep and insightful to say about it because

01:33:12   I just haven't used it enough to know those things.

01:33:15   But as they come up, I'm sure I will mention them on the show, but don't be expecting

01:33:18   like there's going to be like one episode where I just like recite 30,000 words with

01:33:22   a review.

01:33:23   That's not going to happen.

01:33:25   Did you miss writing it at all?

01:33:28   Didn't miss writing it.

01:33:29   I missed a little bit having written it.

01:33:31   Like I tweeted, it was kind of weird going to Ars Technica and seeing an OS X review

01:33:36   and seeing that it wasn't mine. It's like it happened, but I didn't need to do anything,

01:33:41   and this review appeared in Ars Technica. That's great. It's like magic. You just go

01:33:46   to sleep, you wake up, and there's a review in Ars Technica. How did that get there? But

01:33:49   yeah, people wrote it, and that's how it got there.

01:33:52   Is it kind of like if you go back and visit an old job and you see that there's just somebody

01:33:57   else doing your job and everything just went on without you?

01:34:00   Yeah, it's fine. Again, I haven't read it yet. I looked at it. I saw there's some good

01:34:03   techie parts. One person who tweeted about this that I retweeted said that they're really

01:34:08   enjoying the Ars Technica review, including the traditional middle part that they only

01:34:11   vaguely understand. So I'm looking forward to that. Those are the parts that I enjoy.

01:34:16   I didn't enjoy the fact that the terminal examples where they showed terminal text had

01:34:19   light text and a dark background. This is what happens when you stop doing it, someone

01:34:26   else gets to do it and they get to make the choices, and that's just the price I have

01:34:29   pay that someone else is making choices about the aesthetic tiny details of the review.

01:34:34   They probably didn't even put in any references to all my traditional sources, but that's

01:34:39   what happens when someone else writes it. So anyway, I'm looking forward to reading

01:34:42   it. I'm looking forward to learning things. I'm looking forward to reading all the reviews

01:34:45   that I have in there, and I'm looking forward to installing it and trying it out myself,

01:34:49   and I'm sure I will have things to say about it.

01:34:51   I hope so. I really do, because it is, you know, other people write these reviews now,

01:34:58   and other people will always step in,

01:35:00   and I'm sure they are good in their ways,

01:35:04   but I do miss having it come from you.

01:35:07   I do miss your review, 'cause what we got was a review,

01:35:11   but we didn't get your review.

01:35:13   - Yep, I would agree with that wholeheartedly.

01:35:15   I read maybe 2/3 of the ARS review so far,

01:35:18   and it is very good, without question,

01:35:20   and I think it is definitely done

01:35:23   in the spirit of a Syracuse review,

01:35:26   But the tone is just different,

01:35:29   and that's to be expected, of course,

01:35:31   but the tone is just different

01:35:33   and it doesn't feel the way it used to,

01:35:35   just like you were saying, Marco, and I miss that.

01:35:37   That's not an attack on the people who wrote it,

01:35:40   by any means, they did a fine job,

01:35:41   and God knows I would never have wanted

01:35:43   to be the person to follow John Syracuse,

01:35:45   but I miss that Syracuse tone

01:35:48   and that kind of flair that you would put in

01:35:52   that I didn't see in this one.

01:35:54   - Well, that's like any kind of review type thing.

01:35:56   I think the thing people may be most familiar with

01:35:58   are like movie reviews where over time,

01:36:00   if you read a particular movie reviewer

01:36:03   for like years and years and decades,

01:36:05   whether you agree with the reviewer or not,

01:36:07   you start to get a feel for the reviewer as a person.

01:36:09   So then you can say, what I know of Roger Ebert

01:36:12   combined with what he said about this movie

01:36:14   lets me know if I'll like it.

01:36:16   And so having sort of insight into the person

01:36:20   becomes like a comfort level,

01:36:23   Whereas if a new person writes it, you're like, OK, well,

01:36:25   I have the review, but I don't know

01:36:26   that much about the person.

01:36:27   So how do I figure out what I'll think of it?

01:36:30   I know what this person thinks of it,

01:36:32   but I don't know enough about this person

01:36:33   to know what they think of it as-- what they think

01:36:35   of it relates to what I think of it.

01:36:39   I understand that.

01:36:41   You just don't have the same comfort level with the reviewer

01:36:43   because you don't know--

01:36:45   you don't have a model of the inside of their brain yet,

01:36:48   because you haven't been reading them for years or decades

01:36:50   or whatever.

01:36:52   But that'll change, and there's plenty of people

01:36:54   who've never read anything by me anyway,

01:36:56   and so I was just another random person.

01:36:58   Trying to do all the little jokes and references

01:37:04   and trying to keep it entertaining,

01:37:06   it's challenging when you're writing

01:37:07   about an operating system, I can tell you.

01:37:09   It doesn't lend itself well to anything

01:37:11   except for really bad puns, which I tried to avoid mightily.

01:37:15   We all know the puns I'm talking about.

01:37:17   People like to make, I'm not gonna name

01:37:19   any particular publications 'cause I think

01:37:20   this is perfectly fine, you wanna do it, you can do it.

01:37:22   It is an epidemic in the tech industry,

01:37:24   very sort of simple, obvious puns

01:37:28   that people just absolutely cannot resist.

01:37:30   I resisted them as much as I could.

01:37:33   I still did them, especially early on,

01:37:34   I was doing them all the time.

01:37:36   But as time wore on,

01:37:38   I'm trying to, we used to be trying to keep it lighthearted

01:37:40   and keep people engaged in what is usually

01:37:42   a pretty dry topic and eventually not even all that exciting

01:37:46   when people were much more excited about iOS than OS X.

01:37:49   So it's a, you know, it's not an easy task, but you know, someone else has got to do it

01:37:56   and someone else is doing it.

01:37:57   And like I said, from skimming through it, it looked like something that I would want

01:38:00   to read.

01:38:01   It looked like it covered a lot of the features and it looked like it did get down and dirty

01:38:05   into a few specific areas.

01:38:07   And that's what I always did.

01:38:08   I didn't cover everything in super depth.

01:38:09   It's just like, "Oh, this one feature is actually an interesting feature and let me dive really

01:38:12   deep on this one thing."

01:38:13   And I was like, "Why are you diving into even that one thing?

01:38:17   You didn't even talk about this other feature.

01:38:18   that would be a complaint I always got.

01:38:19   I totally understand that,

01:38:20   and that's what the R's review looks like,

01:38:22   so I'm looking forward to reading it.

01:38:23   - It's pretty good so far, like I said.

01:38:27   So you said that you had run the betas, Jon,

01:38:30   but you did not run them full-time.

01:38:32   You ran them on a second partition or whatever?

01:38:34   - Yep.

01:38:35   - All right, what about you, Marco?

01:38:36   Did you run the betas?

01:38:37   - I've been running it on my laptop for a few weeks,

01:38:40   and I really like it.

01:38:42   And it's fine. - Nice.

01:38:43   - It's, you know, I don't use my laptop full-time,

01:38:47   So it's hard for me to really say,

01:38:50   oh, it's amazing or oh, it's terrible in these ways.

01:38:53   It has been perfectly fine for me on my laptop.

01:38:55   I've run into no issues with it as far as I can remember.

01:39:00   Certainly none that felt like it was

01:39:02   because it was a beta before.

01:39:04   And it's been fine.

01:39:05   I like San Francisco a lot.

01:39:08   I've been using iOS 9 all summer,

01:39:10   so I was more used to it.

01:39:12   But I like, as a font, I like it a lot.

01:39:15   And I think it's good, it's fine.

01:39:18   Yeah, I have no complaints so far,

01:39:19   but we'll see when I install it on my desktop.

01:39:21   I'm a little worried that I,

01:39:24   I know during the beta there were some issues with audio,

01:39:27   especially USB audio.

01:39:30   And earlier I was asking the tipster in the chat

01:39:33   if that's been fixed, and he said basically no.

01:39:36   So I'm a little worried about messing with my audio setup

01:39:40   that works by installing LCAP on my computer,

01:39:44   but I got to install it pretty soon

01:39:46   just to keep up with the dev tools and everything.

01:39:48   I'm gonna wanna install it fairly soon.

01:39:50   So I'm probably just gonna install it maybe at point one,

01:39:55   or maybe even sooner than that, I don't know yet.

01:39:58   But it seems like from what I've been hearing from people

01:40:01   and reading today, it doesn't seem like there are

01:40:03   any massive problems with it.

01:40:05   Does that match with what you guys are seeing?

01:40:08   - Yeah, I haven't seen, well, that's not true.

01:40:09   Merlin said that 1Password was having issues on his box,

01:40:12   but it seems to be working on mine.

01:40:14   - As I said in the talking about the reviews in the past,

01:40:16   and there was like a couple of threads online

01:40:18   talking about this, like, "Oh, OS reviews,

01:40:21   why bother reading them?

01:40:21   They didn't tell us about all the problems

01:40:23   that are in Yosemite," and stuff like that.

01:40:25   Like day one reviews are never gonna tell you that.

01:40:27   They're just never going to.

01:40:28   You find them out when millions of people start using it.

01:40:31   No matter how many, like, first of all,

01:40:33   no reviewer that I'm aware of has like a giant lab

01:40:36   with every model of Mac

01:40:37   and every combination of software and hardware.

01:40:38   So they can't do comprehensive testing.

01:40:40   even Apple probably can't test every combination, right?

01:40:43   And so there's no way a day one review

01:40:46   is going to tell you that.

01:40:47   If you're reading a day one review to find out

01:40:49   what is the long-term compatibility and stability

01:40:52   of this gonna be like over the next year,

01:40:54   there's no way to know that.

01:40:55   There's not even a way to know whether the GM will work

01:40:57   and everyone's set up.

01:40:58   The only way you find that out,

01:40:59   I mean, the public beta is supposed to be helping with that,

01:41:00   but the only way you find that out

01:41:01   is massive number of people using it.

01:41:04   And so that's just a job that a review

01:41:08   that comes out on the same day as the OS cannot do, period.

01:41:10   And so I long ago gave up basically doing that.

01:41:14   If there's something egregious or if like,

01:41:16   if I said this, you know, like a leopard,

01:41:18   I remember being really flaky, like was always flaky

01:41:21   and even the GM is flaky and it's clearly flaky.

01:41:25   Like if you get a negative result of,

01:41:27   I don't know, I'm using negative positive,

01:41:28   or anyway, if you get a result that says there are problems,

01:41:30   you can communicate that and like,

01:41:32   I've never gotten this to work successfully,

01:41:34   even in the GM on any of the computers I've tried,

01:41:37   there's probably a problem.

01:41:38   But if everything works fine for you,

01:41:39   that doesn't mean everything's gonna work fine

01:41:41   for everybody else.

01:41:41   All it means is that the problems

01:41:42   haven't yet been discovered.

01:41:43   So if you're wary about LCAP, wait.

01:41:48   So the advice I always gave was like wait for the .1

01:41:50   if you're nervous, but if you waited for the .1 in Yosemite,

01:41:53   that wouldn't have solved the Discovery D issue either.

01:41:56   Took a long time for them to fix that.

01:41:58   You'd never know what's gonna happen.

01:41:59   So if you are nervous at all, wait six months, read the web.

01:42:02   You'll find out if there are problems.

01:42:04   If you don't wanna wait six months,

01:42:05   then upgrade with the rest of us and just cross your fingers, right?

01:42:08   Okay, thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week,

01:42:12   Cards Against Humanity, Harry's, and Backblaze,

01:42:15   and we will see you next week.

01:42:17   Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin

01:42:24   'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:42:29   John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:42:35   'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:42:40   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:42:45   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:42:55   So that's Casey List M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:42:59   Auntie Marco Arment S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A

01:43:07   It's accidental (accidental)

01:43:10   They didn't mean to (accidental)

01:43:14   ♪ Ask about your tech podcast so long ♪

01:43:18   - We need to talk about the TiVo Bolt.

01:43:22   - What is that thing?

01:43:23   - We need to talk about this because--

01:43:25   - Wait, so I know nothing about this

01:43:27   because I've never owned a TiVo

01:43:28   and don't give two craps about one.

01:43:29   So where is there a decent, like, two second overview?

01:43:32   - Just go to the link in the show notes.

01:43:34   - Does it not sit flat?

01:43:36   - Yes, that is the first thing you need to know

01:43:37   about the TiVo, the second thing.

01:43:39   The first thing you need to know about the TiVo Bolt

01:43:40   is the new box from TiVo.

01:43:41   TiVo makes DVRs, right?

01:43:43   I like them and I've owned tons of them

01:43:44   and I'm somewhat obsessed with them.

01:43:46   Anyway, the TiVo Vault,

01:43:48   the second thing you need to know about it is

01:43:50   that rather than being a sort of rectangular solid

01:43:53   with rounded corners.

01:43:54   - What is this?

01:43:56   - It is bent.

01:43:57   - It looks like a bent iPhone.

01:43:58   - Ever so slightly bent so that it does not lay flat

01:44:02   and so that the top of it is not flat.

01:44:05   It's like, it's bent upwards

01:44:06   and so there's a little space underneath it.

01:44:08   It's not even symmetrically bent.

01:44:09   It's not bent in the middle.

01:44:10   It's bent like two thirds of the way down.

01:44:12   It's a stylistic choice.

01:44:14   It looks like an interesting type of sculpture or whatever.

01:44:16   It is a terrible decision.

01:44:18   Do not bend things that are gonna go

01:44:21   in someone's AV stack under their TV.

01:44:23   The only place that can possibly go is on top.

01:44:26   But realistically speaking,

01:44:28   you know people are gonna stack stuff on this

01:44:30   and it's gonna look awful.

01:44:31   People are going to stack it.

01:44:33   You can't stop them.

01:44:33   They're gonna do it.

01:44:34   And they're gonna wedge stuff underneath it

01:44:35   and they're gonna put pencils and books

01:44:36   or they're just gonna have everything be tilted

01:44:38   and slowly slide off their entertainment centers.

01:44:40   This is a terrible choice.

01:44:42   And by the way, it's white, a second terrible choice.

01:44:43   I know you want to stand out and everything.

01:44:45   Black is better for things that go underneath your TV

01:44:47   and your cabinet.

01:44:48   Black is the standard.

01:44:49   If you're going to have a white one, like a console,

01:44:52   give a choice for black.

01:44:53   Bent. Like that is a just,

01:44:57   I just would love to have been in those meetings

01:44:59   when someone's like, but don't you understand?

01:45:00   It's distinctive and people will remember it or whatever.

01:45:03   No, just no, just make it flat.

01:45:05   You have to be able to stack.

01:45:06   It's like the PS3 did the same thing,

01:45:08   like making the George Foreman grill thing out of it.

01:45:10   I'd give game consoles a little bit more leeway

01:45:13   because like look, something's gotta be

01:45:14   on the top of your AV stack.

01:45:16   And if it's gonna be a game console,

01:45:18   maybe it has a top loading CD drive back in the old days

01:45:21   or whatever you had to do it that way.

01:45:23   I don't really give Sony a pass either,

01:45:25   but only one thing can be on top.

01:45:26   The PS4, they learned, it's flat, it's stackable.

01:45:29   This is the first, this is the worst box

01:45:33   that TiVo has ever made,

01:45:35   or possibly that anyone has ever made.

01:45:36   'cause I'm not aware of anyone who's ever so egregiously

01:45:38   thumb their nose at the idea of stackable AVO components.

01:45:42   'Cause it's not like this is just like a little bit off

01:45:43   or whatever, they're intentionally going,

01:45:45   "Guess what?

01:45:46   "Yeah, we screwed you."

01:45:47   (laughing)

01:45:50   Anyway, it's white, the remote is white, it's ugly.

01:45:52   All right, that's enough complaining about the box.

01:45:55   There are other things to talk about this.

01:45:56   Some interesting things related to the Bolt,

01:45:59   the features that are touting.

01:46:00   The first one that I wanna talk about is a smart speed,

01:46:03   but they're not calling it smart speed

01:46:04   'cause Marco would sue them.

01:46:05   - Well, it isn't smart speed,

01:46:07   because it's just to speed up.

01:46:09   - Well, they can't do real smart speed,

01:46:10   because there's video and they can't just skip silence.

01:46:12   - Right.

01:46:13   - You have to watch the video part when they're silenced too.

01:46:16   But it just speeds up the video without pitch shifting,

01:46:19   so people don't sound like chipmunks.

01:46:21   It's a way to watch things in less time.

01:46:23   They say 30% faster.

01:46:25   - Right, that's a 1.3X playback mode.

01:46:27   So that's interesting, that's useful,

01:46:29   not particularly novel, maybe in the set-top box space,

01:46:32   but like, you know.

01:46:33   - No, I mean, it's the type of thing

01:46:35   where you think, why didn't they have this years ago?

01:46:36   'Cause, yeah. - Right.

01:46:37   Well, I'm pretty sure the PS3 can do that.

01:46:40   (upbeat music)

01:46:43   Obviously, computer play, like, you know,

01:46:48   QuickTime can do it.

01:46:49   I'm sure VLC probably has an option somewhere to do it.

01:46:52   But in the set-top box industry,

01:46:54   I think it's pretty unusual, so that's interesting.

01:46:57   - Yeah, I just mentioned it because smart speeds,

01:47:00   like, it's smart speeds for your TV,

01:47:01   so save time, watch your stuff in less time.

01:47:03   If that's what you like, I would never do that anyway.

01:47:05   Anyway, it's there.

01:47:05   The other thing is commercial skipping.

01:47:07   They've always had 30 seconds skip

01:47:09   and fast forward scan and stuff like that,

01:47:11   and now they're gonna have a button

01:47:12   that will let you skip commercials.

01:47:13   How does it do that?

01:47:14   How does it know whether your commercials begin to end?

01:47:15   Have they done some amazing machine learning?

01:47:17   No, they have a bunch of humans

01:47:18   taking the most popular shows

01:47:20   and marking where the commercials are.

01:47:21   So you can't do the skipping feature

01:47:23   until the show has aired and TiVo's legion of actual humans

01:47:27   has put in the metadata for commercial start here,

01:47:30   stop there, start here, start there,

01:47:31   and of course it will only work on the shows

01:47:33   they do that for,

01:47:34   going to do it for the most popular shows.

01:47:38   And I imagine the relevant, the stakeholders as they say in the business world of advertising

01:47:45   in television may be a little bit miffed by this, so this could lead to legal battles

01:47:49   and grumbling and who knows what else.

01:47:50   But in the meantime, you can buy this and in theory, if you don't watch the show live

01:47:55   and if you allow, you know, if you watch it the next day or maybe an hour later, I don't

01:47:58   know what the lag is going to be, you will be able to skip commercials with one button

01:48:01   press.

01:48:02   like why even make them press the button?

01:48:05   - Yeah, why not just, I mean, yeah, why,

01:48:06   I mean, I think the reality here is that

01:48:09   so few people are buying Tevos anymore

01:48:11   that no one's gonna even care.

01:48:13   - I don't know, yeah, it's possible they won't care,

01:48:15   but you'd be surprised what they care about.

01:48:16   But anyway, I buy Tevos, so I care.

01:48:18   So I would like to try that feature,

01:48:20   even though I'm a 30 second skip wizard by this point.

01:48:24   I'm really good at it.

01:48:26   That's why I hate when they're not responsive,

01:48:27   because it throws off my game.

01:48:28   (laughing)

01:48:30   But it's got that feature.

01:48:32   Those are the big things that are kind of,

01:48:33   oh yeah, and 4K video, which is mostly irrelevant

01:48:35   because the only thing that's really broad,

01:48:36   like, you know, their Netflix client will get 4K

01:48:38   from Netflix and you can record in 4K,

01:48:40   and it's good they're cranking it up.

01:48:42   You know, they're gonna have to go 4K eventually,

01:48:44   so it's good that they get some practice.

01:48:45   Oh, and how long do you think it is before their UI is 4K?

01:48:48   Yeah, no, supposedly, most, almost all,

01:48:51   not all, because that would be impossible,

01:48:53   almost all of the UI is now in HD.

01:48:55   TiVo, for people to know,

01:48:57   historically had a standard definition menu,

01:49:00   you know, set of menus and everything,

01:49:01   And even long after the TiVo device started recording HD video, the menus were still standard

01:49:06   def.

01:49:07   And slowly, slowly, more and more the menus became high def.

01:49:10   This year has high definition come entirely to TiVo?

01:49:14   Almost!

01:49:15   It's like they're asymptotically approaching an HD user interface.

01:49:17   So now only a few screens are standard def and most of them are high def, which is kind

01:49:21   of embarrassing and stupid, but that's life.

01:49:24   But yeah, the 4K support matters is that it means that they're putting in beefier hardware.

01:49:30   Supposedly this one has more memory faster GPU faster video decoding it can handle 4k like these are all good things

01:49:36   I want this to happen thumbs up, please

01:49:38   TiVo if you made if you made a fifteen hundred dollar box

01:49:43   I would buy it like I'm afraid to give you money why because I love TiVo

01:49:47   And I just wish it was way faster. I'm like what I don't understand

01:49:50   I don't watch maybe as much TV as you do we Aaron and I have maybe five or six shows that we watch religiously but

01:49:57   to me our

01:50:00   really f*cking Verizon DVR box is plenty fine. It's terrible. I will be the first to tell you, but we are using it to

01:50:07   navigate between shows for maybe 15 seconds any given day. Like, I don't need the most robust whiz-bang awesome experience.

01:50:16   And, by the way, our menus are entirely and exclusively in HD.

01:50:20   So, I'm not saying you're wrong, but gosh,

01:50:23   I don't understand what could make a DVR so magical that it warrants all this money,

01:50:29   including a service charge, right?

01:50:31   Like a monthly service fee or whatever?

01:50:32   - No, no, I buy them outright.

01:50:35   You can pay a whole bunch upfront

01:50:36   and there's no monthly fee.

01:50:37   I do that 'cause I keep them forever.

01:50:39   So there's no monthly fee.

01:50:40   I already pay a lot for these things

01:50:41   and what I'm saying is I'd be willing to pay even more.

01:50:45   What I'm paying for is the responsiveness, the features,

01:50:49   like MyTivo has applications like Netflix and Hulu

01:50:51   and stuff like that.

01:50:52   The Netflix app, how long does the Netflix quote unquote app

01:50:55   take to launch?

01:50:56   How responsive is the Netflix?

01:50:58   When I'm waiting for the Netflix thing on TiVo to launch,

01:51:00   which I've been doing by the way,

01:51:00   'cause my Apple TV's been flaking out

01:51:02   to now actually using the Netflix thing on my TiVo,

01:51:05   I don't like waiting for things to launch.

01:51:07   Like the iOS app launches faster.

01:51:09   Why is it slow on the TiVo?

01:51:10   'Cause the TiVo's recording six shows at once

01:51:12   and doing a bunch of other things

01:51:14   and doesn't have enough memory and the CPU can't,

01:51:16   whatever the problem is, I don't wanna wait.

01:51:17   I want everything to be instant, I demand it.

01:51:20   And I'm willing to pay for it.

01:51:22   And so maybe I'm not TiVo's big customer.

01:51:24   - But when we're navigating to figure out

01:51:27   what show we want to watch, that's pretty damn instant.

01:51:30   When it starts playing back, it's pretty damn instant.

01:51:33   - How long does the TiVo client take the launch?

01:51:35   Or not the Netflix client take the launch?

01:51:37   - Oh, I don't have Netflix on my DVR.

01:51:39   That's why I have a Fire TV stick or my Apple TV.

01:51:42   - How long does it take to launch on those?

01:51:44   - I actually haven't watched Netflix

01:51:45   since House of Cards went away, so it's been a while.

01:51:48   I would--

01:51:49   - And how long does it take for the thing to come up

01:51:50   and like to navigate to the thing that you want?

01:51:52   Netflix is usually good about picking up like,

01:51:54   oh, play the next House of Cards episode,

01:51:55   but I don't like waiting.

01:51:57   I've, I'm used to, when I was a kid,

01:51:59   television was instant because it was all analog

01:52:01   and that's what I want.

01:52:02   - I mean, your point is fair and I'm confident

01:52:06   that whatever waiting you do is less than the waiting I do,

01:52:09   but I just, I guess our priorities are just so different

01:52:12   and that's fine.

01:52:13   I mean, that's what makes the world go round,

01:52:14   but I never in my life have I looked at my very crappy

01:52:18   cable issue or a Verizon file issue DVR and said,

01:52:21   you know what, my life would be better

01:52:23   if this thing was replaced.

01:52:25   - Well, here's the thing.

01:52:26   It's like one of those things where like, yeah, it's fine.

01:52:28   But if I gave you a high-end TiVo,

01:52:30   you wouldn't be able to go back to the other thing.

01:52:32   'Cause you just get used to it.

01:52:32   - Yeah, you're probably right.

01:52:33   - Especially if I gave it to you for free

01:52:34   and there was no monetary thing,

01:52:36   it's just much more pleasant.

01:52:37   And it's the type of thing, before you have it,

01:52:39   it's not a big deal, you're fine.

01:52:40   And after you get it, it's not that big of a deal,

01:52:42   but would you like to go back to the old one?

01:52:44   No, not really, this new one is better.

01:52:46   There are plenty of things to annoy about TiVo as well.

01:52:49   Anyway, the other thing I'm paying for

01:52:51   with my big fancy TiVo is the thing

01:52:54   that TiVo Bolt doesn't provide.

01:52:55   The TiVo Bolt only comes, as far as I'm aware,

01:52:58   according to TiVo's site right now,

01:53:00   maybe they'll expand it out,

01:53:01   in a sort of a wimpier model.

01:53:04   It's not their high-end model.

01:53:05   So the TiVo Bolt can come with a 500 gig

01:53:09   or a terabyte hard drive and four tuners.

01:53:12   The high-end TiVo Romeo,

01:53:14   which is their previous high-end product

01:53:16   and still their prior product,

01:53:17   comes with a three terabyte hard drive and six tuners.

01:53:19   And mine is like 70% full.

01:53:22   So I could go, you know, they make six terabyte drives now.

01:53:24   The Bolt uses a 2.5 inch drive, I think,

01:53:27   which is why they've scaled things down.

01:53:28   But again, what would you pay the extra money for?

01:53:30   I would pay for a six terabyte drive.

01:53:32   I would pay for two, three terabyte drives.

01:53:34   Sure, throw them in there.

01:53:35   Like the hard drives are fairly quiet.

01:53:38   You know, I would pay for an SSD to make it smaller.

01:53:41   This is the type of thing I'm willing to pay for.

01:53:44   Do you need six tuners?

01:53:45   Sometimes I use all of them.

01:53:46   Is four enough?

01:53:47   Yeah, probably, but I'd rather have six.

01:53:49   So the Bolt is not their high-end product.

01:53:52   But right now, the Bolt has a bunch of features

01:53:54   the other things don't have.

01:53:55   The skipping, the fast playing mode,

01:53:58   the skipping they could bring to any of them.

01:53:59   So the software update could bring that to my model.

01:54:02   If it doesn't, I'll be kind of disappointed

01:54:04   because that's entirely like a metadata service thing.

01:54:06   It has nothing to do with the hardware.

01:54:07   Maybe my model doesn't have the hardware support

01:54:12   or fast enough innards to do the fast playback thing,

01:54:15   but I don't care 'cause I would never use that feature.

01:54:17   My Netflix app takes a while to launch

01:54:19   and there's little spinners and I gotta wait.

01:54:21   Is that ever gonna be faster on mine?

01:54:22   probably not because the CPU is so lumpy

01:54:25   and the RAM is not getting any bigger or whatever.

01:54:26   So this TiVo Bolt thing is not a replacement for my,

01:54:30   like it's not like I'm, I would never replace it.

01:54:33   Storage capacity alone means I would never replace it

01:54:35   with this, but I'm assuming the TiVo Bolt inner,

01:54:37   it's the faster CPU, GPU, video decoder,

01:54:41   4K support, all that stuff.

01:54:42   I'm assuming eventually there will be

01:54:44   a high-end model of that.

01:54:45   I just hope that it is not bent like this thing.

01:54:48   And I also hope that it's not a white,

01:54:49   even the remote is white for crying out.

01:54:51   I know people like white.

01:54:52   I kind of like the white PS4, but if you have kids,

01:54:55   like you just see the crap that goes on.

01:54:56   Please just don't make, don't make the remote white,

01:54:59   don't make the box white.

01:55:00   It would be the only white box besides my Wii

01:55:01   and my entertainment center.

01:55:02   I need everything to be black.

01:55:04   I need it not to be bent TiVo.

01:55:06   So excited by the interesting new features

01:55:09   and the increased performance and the increased CPU grunt.

01:55:12   Everything else about it is super annoying to me.

01:55:14   [BEEP]