ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Let's just dive right in. Let's start with something hugely important. Let's talk about

00:00:05 ◼   ► my sonology. A lot of people have written in and asked me with regard to my computer

00:00:17 ◼   ► woes, and I'm putting "woes" in humongous air quotes there, why is it I'm so preoccupied

00:00:24 ◼   ► with having a computer that will be good at running Plex when I have a Synology, specifically

00:00:32 ◼   ► a DS1813+, sitting right next to me as we speak, that can host Plex.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Why am I complaining and moaning about having a computer to do that?

00:00:42 ◼   ► Well, the reason is that, at least as of six months or maybe a year ago now, when I was

00:00:46 ◼   ► running Synology—er, running Synology—running Plex on my Synology, what ended up happening

00:00:52 ◼   ► was anytime I tried to do a live transcode of just about anything, it just ground to

00:00:58 ◼   ► a screeching halt and it couldn't keep up with the transcode. Now, it could be that

00:01:04 ◼   ► things have gotten better over time. It could be that I didn't have my settings squared

00:01:10 ◼   ► away because to Marco's point, you know, generally speaking Plex is pretty maintenance-free,

00:01:16 ◼   ► but it can get a little fiddly on occasion. So it very well could be user error, but one

00:01:21 ◼   ► One way or another, my experience with the 1813+ running Plex is that it just cannot

00:01:25 ◼   ► transcode quick enough, and thus I need a full bore computer to do it.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Now there are other Synology models that absolutely can transcode really well on the fly.

00:01:37 ◼   ► The one that I have, in my experience anyway, was not it.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Now the other question is, "Okay, well why do you have to transcode in the first place?

00:01:44 ◼   ► Why don't you just have what MPEG-4 video or whatever it is all over the place?"

00:01:50 ◼   ► Well, let's just say that not all of my media is consistent, and I'll leave it at that.

00:01:56 ◼   ► I could take Don Melton's scripts and transcode everything, but that takes a long time because

00:02:02 ◼   ► I don't have a trashcan Mac Pro, and I'm too darn lazy.

00:02:06 ◼   ► So that is why I'm not using Plex on my Synology.

00:02:09 ◼   ► I have the same Synology, and it's not—I mean, it's a fairly wimpy CPU in there.

00:02:14 ◼   ► It's not great at transcoding, but I haven't really run Plex on it.

00:02:17 ◼   ► I use Synology's native video serving thing.

00:02:20 ◼   ► - Is that any good?

00:02:21 ◼   ► - It transcodes fine.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Like either it can't transcode it at all,

00:02:25 ◼   ► which very rarely happens, but does occasionally happen

00:02:27 ◼   ► where it just can't make heads or tails of it.

00:02:29 ◼   ► And it says like, you know, file unreadable or whatever.

00:02:32 ◼   ► Some error message is basically like,

00:02:33 ◼   ► I can't make heads or tails of this.

00:02:34 ◼   ► But most of the stuff that I find,

00:02:36 ◼   ► some pretty weird stuff, you know,

00:02:38 ◼   ► weird MKVs of unknown origins, right?

00:02:41 ◼   ► It transcodes them, 1080p, you know,

00:02:44 ◼   ► You can't do anything fancy like scrub around in the video

00:02:48 ◼   ► Like don't like you all you can do is play from the beginning essentially, but it can keep up. It doesn't drop frames

00:02:53 ◼   ► So it could just be Plex is not taking advantage of the hardware in the same way that the thing that comes with Synology

00:02:58 ◼   ► Is and in general when I've looked at like Plex and all the other sorts of things

00:03:02 ◼   ► Synology is like I think they call it DS video. They have an iOS app. They have they have a little server thing

00:03:08 ◼   ► My TV with no software installed just the the quote-unquote smart

00:03:13 ◼   ► features of my TV

00:03:15 ◼   ► It sees it just as a DLNA server. It's not fancy. It's not pretty

00:03:19 ◼   ► It doesn't show you the cover art for your things and have a bunch of metadata and do all the stuff that Plex does

00:03:24 ◼   ► But it has a fairly high rate of being able to play the video

00:03:28 ◼   ► In a straight line from beginning to end as long as you don't touch anything

00:03:31 ◼   ► No, well, maybe I'll have to try that out. I mean I freaking love Plex with all my being

00:03:37 ◼   ► I do like all the metadata it gives you.

00:03:41 ◼   ► I do think, despite what Marco's experience has been, that it's very, very easy 99% of

00:03:47 ◼   ► the time.

00:03:48 ◼   ► The only problem with Plex is that you really have to name things the way they expect you

00:03:52 ◼   ► to name things.

00:03:54 ◼   ► But if you do, and you're okay with that, then you don't ever have to look at the names

00:03:58 ◼   ► of anything because it's all, you know, with the cover art and with the full metadata,

00:04:04 ◼   ► just like you were saying, Jon.

00:04:05 ◼   ► I really love it, but it may be worth giving this thing a try just to see.

00:04:09 ◼   ► And I think it's the Play series, the DS-214 Play is the one I can think of off the top

00:04:14 ◼   ► of my head that the Synology makes that I believe has some onboard hardware to do some

00:04:19 ◼   ► of this transcoding, but our Synologies do not.

00:04:23 ◼   ► So just something to consider.

00:04:25 ◼   ► I have one of those Play ones too, and it does claim to have hardware stuff and you

00:04:29 ◼   ► can turn it on, but I think when you turn it on, the hardware decoding, it reduces the

00:04:33 ◼   ► the amount of things that it's able to transcode on the file.

00:04:36 ◼   ► Like the hardware decoding is like, you know,

00:04:39 ◼   ► understands some particular formats

00:04:41 ◼   ► and some particular bit rates or whatever.

00:04:43 ◼   ► That's, I don't know if that's true,

00:04:44 ◼   ► but that's been my impression

00:04:45 ◼   ► because when I check that checkbox,

00:04:46 ◼   ► all of a sudden a bunch of other stuff doesn't play.

00:04:49 ◼   ► And when I uncheck it, everything still plays fine.

00:04:53 ◼   ► And so I don't see what the advantage is.

00:04:55 ◼   ► It's not as if checking it makes something

00:04:57 ◼   ► that I couldn't previously play play better.

00:04:59 ◼   ► Everything plays fine in software mode.

00:05:00 ◼   ► so I just leave the hardware thing unchecked.

00:05:03 ◼   ► - If only the new Apple TV played MKV files natively.

00:05:06 ◼   ► - We'll get to that.

00:05:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:05:10 ◼   ► - I tell you what though,

00:05:11 ◼   ► if there's a Plex app for the Apple TV,

00:05:13 ◼   ► which I got to assume there will be,

00:05:15 ◼   ► I'm gonna have to,

00:05:17 ◼   ► that genuinely that will probably make me buy one.

00:05:20 ◼   ► Although I will say that I do love my Fire TV stick.

00:05:22 ◼   ► It does work really well.

00:05:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, well put out the notes so you don't forget

00:05:26 ◼   ► to crush your Plex dreams for Apple TV later.

00:05:30 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:05:32 ◼   ► Follow up since you went to the last follow up item first,

00:05:34 ◼   ► now we're a little out of order here.

00:05:35 ◼   ► So we'll go to the first follow up item second

00:05:38 ◼   ► from Michael Hammond.

00:05:39 ◼   ► He was the first person to point out that last show

00:05:41 ◼   ► when I was trying to talk about the things

00:05:43 ◼   ► that Apple is not going to do

00:05:45 ◼   ► when they do the S revision of their phones,

00:05:47 ◼   ► like it's not a total hardware redesign.

00:05:48 ◼   ► It's just like the previous phone, but S-ier.

00:05:51 ◼   ► The example I gave was,

00:05:54 ◼   ► they're not gonna do something like Touch ID,

00:05:55 ◼   ► but of course Touch ID did debut on an S phone.

00:05:57 ◼   ► Brain fart, sorry.

00:05:58 ◼   ► So nevermind that example.

00:06:01 ◼   ► Neither one of you caught it either.

00:06:03 ◼   ► - Nope.

00:06:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, we forget.

00:06:04 ◼   ► - Well, I just, I wanted to see if you knew.

00:06:07 ◼   ► - Oh, I mean, I knew as soon as it was pointed out to me,

00:06:09 ◼   ► like, duh, yeah, that was a stupid example.

00:06:10 ◼   ► And then I, of course, I did.

00:06:11 ◼   ► Did I actually say that?

00:06:12 ◼   ► And then you listen back and say, yeah, I did, stupid.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Anyway, Michael Hammond won the race.

00:06:17 ◼   ► He was the first one.

00:06:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:06:19 ◼   ► And then a million other people told me, which is fine.

00:06:21 ◼   ► - Oh, this next piece of follow-up is me.

00:06:23 ◼   ► We've talked on and off about the crescent moon

00:06:25 ◼   ► on the front of the iPhone 6,

00:06:28 ◼   ► maybe even 6 Plus. I wanted to remind everyone, I tweeted about this a little

00:06:32 ◼   ► while ago, that your warranty if you did not buy AppleCare probably runs out the

00:06:37 ◼   ► next 10 or so days if you got a launch day iPhone 6. I have scheduled a Genius

00:06:43 ◼   ► Bar appointment for this coming Sunday, I believe about midday, and so I'm going to

00:06:48 ◼   ► go into the Genius Bar to see about them replacing either the screen or the

00:06:52 ◼   ► entire phone. I have heard from numerous people through the internet, I've heard that they

00:07:00 ◼   ► will completely give you a new phone, which I think is actually refurbished strictly speaking,

00:07:04 ◼   ► but they'll give you a phone that's new to you. I've heard that they'll repair the screen,

00:07:09 ◼   ► like give you a whole new screen assembly. And I've heard they'll tell you, "Well, it

00:07:12 ◼   ► doesn't affect the pictures, so screw off." And I don't know, I guess every person's experience

00:07:18 ◼   ► is a little bit different. I will report back on what my experience is, but I will find

00:07:22 ◼   ► out Sunday. Additionally, I'm told as per Lane W that to get this fixed out of warranty is $109.

00:07:29 ◼   ► I don't know if that is inclusive of AppleCare or not, but it's something to think about. So,

00:07:36 ◼   ► if you have one of these Crescent Moon iPhone issues, I would strongly suggest

00:07:42 ◼   ► you go and get that checked out in the next week or so.

00:07:44 ◼   ► Ashish Gandhi gave some clarification on the whole thing about the SVG icon for the pin

00:07:53 ◼   ► tab in Safari 9.

00:07:56 ◼   ► Why were there two different instructions?

00:07:57 ◼   ► I think we put them both in last week's show notes.

00:08:01 ◼   ► Turns out that there's only one.

00:08:04 ◼   ► One of them is old, one of them is new.

00:08:05 ◼   ► It's difficult to tell which was which.

00:08:07 ◼   ► We'll put links in the show notes to clear it up.

00:08:09 ◼   ► The real one that Apple wants you to use now is the one that says link rel=mask-icon.

00:08:14 ◼   ► is the real one, that is the good one, that's the one you have to put in. I have to go to

00:08:17 ◼   ► my site and delete the other one now that I know which one is fake. And there's also

00:08:21 ◼   ► a link to a thread in Apple's developer forums and a mailing list archive on one of the WG

00:08:28 ◼   ► mailing lists from the W3 explaining the evolution of this thing. But anyway, it's link rel=mask-icon

00:08:34 ◼   ► in case you were wondering.

00:08:36 ◼   ► Alright.

00:08:37 ◼   ► Our first sponsor this week is Cards Against Humanity. And rather than reading a normal

00:08:41 ◼   ► sponsor read, they asked Jon to review a toaster.

00:08:44 ◼   ► [MUSIC]

00:08:55 ◼   ► Jon, what is this week's toaster?

00:08:57 ◼   ► I had a weird one this week, because I've never heard of this brand before, and I think

00:09:02 ◼   ► this is the first one we've ever had of this brand. You guys can tell me. This is

00:09:05 ◼   ► Rosewill all one word no capital W. This is the RHT0 and oh I guess it's got to

00:09:12 ◼   ► be an O. RHTO yes it is an O hyphen one three zero zero one another name with O's

00:09:20 ◼   ► and zeros in it but at least they're separated by hyphen. This is I think the

00:09:25 ◼   ► biggest toaster I've ever tested it is really really really big it is bigger in

00:09:31 ◼   ► all dimensions than what I thought was my pretty big Breville 650 XL toaster.

00:09:36 ◼   ► They sell it on Newegg.

00:09:37 ◼   ► I don't know where it came from.

00:09:39 ◼   ► They just arrive at my house.

00:09:40 ◼   ► And in particular, it is really, really tall.

00:09:44 ◼   ► And I don't understand why it's so tall.

00:09:46 ◼   ► It is the tallest toaster I've ever seen in my life.

00:09:48 ◼   ► It is taller than any toaster I've ever seen in a store.

00:09:50 ◼   ► It's taller than the really big Breville's.

00:09:54 ◼   ► I don't understand why it's so tall.

00:09:55 ◼   ► The manual it comes with is very thin.

00:09:58 ◼   ► It doesn't give any reason for it to be so darn tall in it.

00:10:02 ◼   ► You would think like, "Oh, so you can fit an entire chicken in there."

00:10:05 ◼   ► Like vertically maybe?

00:10:06 ◼   ► Like why is it so tall?

00:10:08 ◼   ► Like I think the proportions of all the other toasters, like if you have a chicken that

00:10:12 ◼   ► is too tall to fit in one of the other toasters I've tested, it's not going to fit lengthwise.

00:10:17 ◼   ► You know, like the proportions, anyway, it is inexplicably tall and it just dominates

00:10:21 ◼   ► the counter that it's on.

00:10:22 ◼   ► All right, so that's the first weird thing about it.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Some standard things about it.

00:10:26 ◼   ► It's another three knob toaster, three knobs that all have to be in the right position

00:10:30 ◼   ► for anything to happen.

00:10:32 ◼   ► You've got a temperature knob on top that goes from 0 to 450, although the manual says

00:10:36 ◼   ► that has a max setting, it doesn't, it just stops at 450.

00:10:39 ◼   ► Anyway, turn it all the way to the right.

00:10:40 ◼   ► Then you've got a function knob with toast on one end and like a warming function on

00:10:43 ◼   ► the other, and then you've got a timer knob that turned to the right for a little ticking

00:10:46 ◼   ► timer and turned to the left for the stay on mode.

00:10:50 ◼   ► I don't know who decided this three knob arrangement is a good idea, but it appears to be the most

00:10:54 ◼   ► common and it's terrible because it's like you know all three knobs have to be

00:10:57 ◼   ► in the right position for you to do anything right and it will gladly like

00:11:01 ◼   ► you'll turn the little toast knob to you know whatever to try to toast if you

00:11:06 ◼   ► don't have the other knobs in the right position it will gladly just sit there

00:11:08 ◼   ► and take away the lights on does nothing tells you that it's not actually

00:11:10 ◼   ► toasting your bread until you come back two minutes later and go why isn't this

00:11:13 ◼   ► bread getting brown or actually in this case for four and a half minutes it's

00:11:17 ◼   ► about four and a half minutes to toast we're just pretty good considering the

00:11:21 ◼   ► Cavern that you have to put the bread

00:11:23 ◼   ► Like it's so lonely there

00:11:25 ◼   ► This has three positions for the rack and it has a u-shaped rack that you can flip over

00:11:29 ◼   ► But the u-shaped like is only like a centimeter difference between up and down maybe two centimeters anyway again

00:11:36 ◼   ► What difference is this two centimeters up or down make in this giant toaster is like a foot tall?

00:11:40 ◼   ► I don't understand. It's got two unguarded elements in the bottom two unguarded elements on the top

00:11:47 ◼   ► Crumb tray slides out reasonably well the door the massive massive door has a weird curve to it

00:11:54 ◼   ► It opens all the way. It doesn't feel like it's bending or breaking the whole thing. Here's that

00:11:58 ◼   ► Here's the thing that I'm still puzzling over by this toaster

00:12:02 ◼   ► The whole toaster feels like it's not high-end

00:12:06 ◼   ► So it's not like trying to be shiny or glossy or like have the controls feel good

00:12:10 ◼   ► But it's not chintzy either like nothing wiggles when it shouldn't

00:12:15 ◼   ► You know, it's like exactly middle of the road very sort of straightforward Fisher price competent every part of it is

00:12:22 ◼   ► Not loose, but like it just it has an air of like competence to it then

00:12:28 ◼   ► I don't know. I'm associating with this Rose will brand that I've never heard of by the way

00:12:32 ◼   ► It's apparently new eggs generic brand. Just please don't email us

00:12:35 ◼   ► Yeah, that makes some sense. Like a new egg style thing where if you buy something from new egg

00:12:41 ◼   ► It's like an off brand like mono price, you know where it's like

00:12:44 ◼   ► Like, it's not really name brand, but it's also not terrible.

00:12:49 ◼   ► I don't know, it's very strange.

00:12:50 ◼   ► So the knobs, they feel kind of gritty and a little bit stiff, but they don't feel like

00:12:54 ◼   ► they're going to fall off in your hands.

00:12:55 ◼   ► They do their knob job well, they have a little marking.

00:12:59 ◼   ► They have little markings on them so you can see where they're pointing.

00:13:01 ◼   ► They're just standard knobs, they don't do any of the terrible mistakes the other ones

00:13:05 ◼   ► try to do.

00:13:06 ◼   ► The door feels a little bit too big and too loose, but it doesn't wiggle, it doesn't twist

00:13:10 ◼   ► in its thing, it just opens and closes fine.

00:13:13 ◼   ► I still think the toaster is just way too big and four and a half minutes is like the

00:13:16 ◼   ► sort of the average a little bit too slow toaster.

00:13:19 ◼   ► I think that's just too long to wait.

00:13:21 ◼   ► But if you like to toast really big things, I guess really tall stuff, it does an okay

00:13:27 ◼   ► job like for a giant toaster.

00:13:30 ◼   ► It just feels like a waste of space to me, but I can't find anything terribly wrong with

00:13:34 ◼   ► it in terms of the big toasters to take a long time to toast bread.

00:13:38 ◼   ► It seems okay.

00:13:39 ◼   ► I didn't look at the prices.

00:13:40 ◼   ► I always forget to look at the price because they just arrive and I don't know like it's a hundred bucks

00:13:44 ◼   ► Whoa, all right now I've changed my thing

00:13:46 ◼   ► Not a hundred dollar toaster do not buy this toaster for $100. I'm gonna be like it was like 50 or 60 fine hundred dollars

00:13:54 ◼   ► Mmm, I would get the smaller

00:13:56 ◼   ► Black and Decker three knob thing or something

00:14:00 ◼   ► Well, the hundred dollar price does match up with what you just said about how it's kind of in the middle between low end and

00:14:04 ◼   ► high end

00:14:05 ◼   ► Where you know the high-end toasters like your Breville are like 180 and then we've had a lot of good ones that are like 40

00:14:11 ◼   ► Or 50 yeah

00:14:12 ◼   ► But I feel like the best $50 one we had is better than this because it's just so big and so slow like I just

00:14:19 ◼   ► Felt like the quality of it was it was like it felt like using a mono price toaster

00:14:22 ◼   ► It's not name-brand it's not quite right it's a little bit off

00:14:27 ◼   ► The plastic is a little bit of the wrong material. I'm like so the really long toast time

00:14:31 ◼   ► If you're gonna use it mostly for toasting things. This is not the toaster for you

00:14:34 ◼   ► It's all black which I think is reasonably tasteful after some of the weirder toasters that we had

00:14:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know maybe you see it on sale see it at woot.com for 80 bucks pick it up

00:14:45 ◼   ► But but really take the measurements first

00:14:47 ◼   ► You know go into your kitchen and measure it out and see if it'll even fit underneath your countertop

00:14:52 ◼   ► Underneath your cabinets because it is huge

00:14:55 ◼   ► Do you think maybe this is for somebody who wants to toast an entire dozen of bagels at once vertically?

00:15:03 ◼   ► Let's just stack me like you know it's not like it has so much space, but it doesn't give you any like

00:15:07 ◼   ► Holders or anything to use that space it also comes with a circular thing like for pizza or whatever which is weird because it doesn't

00:15:13 ◼   ► Even have much of a bump on

00:15:15 ◼   ► The back of it and the trays that come with they're also sort of similarly middle of the road it comes with a lot of

00:15:19 ◼   ► Accessories got the big tray that's got the thing that goes inside the tray, then it's got the circle thing

00:15:23 ◼   ► Don't know this this is inscrutable

00:15:27 ◼   ► I mean

00:15:28 ◼   ► I think we'll have to get more of these Roseville ones to see to get the number of this manufacturer

00:15:32 ◼   ► But $100 seems steep to me and honestly, I don't understand a person maybe a giant person

00:15:37 ◼   ► Maybe like someone who is like an NBA player or an NFL player who's just much bigger than regular people that this is a proportional

00:15:43 ◼   ► Toaster for them and they just buy very tall bread. I don't know

00:15:58 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to Cards Against Humanity for sponsoring our show this week once again

00:16:02 ◼   ► Okay, so some things have happened today. We are out of August and news is happening once again

00:16:10 ◼   ► We have made it through the dark days and now we are back in the light

00:16:14 ◼   ► So there was an Apple keynote today, and it was a busy one. There was a lot going on

00:16:19 ◼   ► How long was it all told like two and a half hours something like that? I?

00:16:22 ◼   ► mean it's a long and busy keynote and

00:16:25 ◼   ► so I

00:16:27 ◼   ► I guess the understanding is that this is the last keynote we're going to see from

00:16:32 ◼   ► Apple this calendar year.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's interesting.

00:16:35 ◼   ► I mean, you know, like John Gruber was predicting beforehand that, you know, this doesn't

00:16:38 ◼   ► make sense, it's too much stuff, they always have two, or they have for a long time, and

00:16:43 ◼   ► that was correct.

00:16:44 ◼   ► I think one thing that is very clear from this is that they didn't want to relegate

00:16:50 ◼   ► anything to a secondary keynote.

00:16:53 ◼   ► And one thing that didn't make any appearance at all is El Capitan and anything about the

00:16:58 ◼   ► Mac.

00:16:59 ◼   ► Like the Mac, like I think there was like some, some like Easter egg somewhere like

00:17:04 ◼   ► on a screenshot on one of the demos it said that it's coming out on September 30th.

00:17:09 ◼   ► But that was it.

00:17:10 ◼   ► Yeah, that was an email, an email in Federici's iPhone and he was doing the, I already forgot

00:17:16 ◼   ► the term, but he was doing like the quick look for the message and it said, oh, it's

00:17:20 ◼   ► coming out on the 30th, PS, top secret.

00:17:22 ◼   ► Right, exactly. But other than that, there was really no mention of the Mac in today's

00:17:27 ◼   ► keynote because honestly there wasn't room for it. And I think maybe we keep waiting

00:17:32 ◼   ► for Skylake, right? And we keep hearing Skylake is coming soon-ish, you know, any time between

00:17:38 ◼   ► now and six months from now, everyone keeps saying. I think this is kind of confirmation

00:17:44 ◼   ► that either we're not going to see any Skylake stuff from Apple for the rest of the year

00:17:48 ◼   ► or it'll be so minor that it'll just be like a website update.

00:17:53 ◼   ► So I wouldn't expect much on the Mac front for the rest of the year besides the release

00:17:56 ◼   ► of El Capitan.

00:17:58 ◼   ► Maybe this 4K iMac comes out, but honestly, in this event, there was no room for that.

00:18:04 ◼   ► The 4K iMac is not a big deal.

00:18:06 ◼   ► It's a mid-range product.

00:18:07 ◼   ► It isn't a high-end product.

00:18:09 ◼   ► It's not even really a redesign, as far as we know.

00:18:12 ◼   ► The Mac is conspicuously missing here, but I think Apple really wanted to give a boost

00:18:20 ◼   ► to their other things that aren't the iPhone.

00:18:23 ◼   ► They talked a little bit about the watch, we'll get to that.

00:18:26 ◼   ► They wanted to launch the new iPad Pro and the new Apple TV.

00:18:30 ◼   ► These are major new product launches that, as far as I know, I mean, I will have to ask

00:18:36 ◼   ► people who have worked for big sites, as far as I know, the iPhone event every year is

00:18:40 ◼   ► always the biggest event audience-wise.

00:18:42 ◼   ► It seems like way more people watch the iPhone event every year than the other Apple livestreams.

00:18:47 ◼   ► And so if Apple wants to give things the best chance, this is like going between friends

00:18:52 ◼   ► and Seinfeld.

00:18:54 ◼   ► This is the slot that you can put anything in front of the iPhones at this event and

00:18:59 ◼   ► it'll get a lot of exposure, even more so than Apple's usual stuff, which is already

00:19:05 ◼   ► a lot of exposure.

00:19:06 ◼   ► So they wanted to give the iPad Pro, the Apple TV, and the watch the biggest boost they can

00:19:10 ◼   ► leading into the holiday season.

00:19:12 ◼   ► So it makes sense that they did it this way.

00:19:15 ◼   ► However, I mean, I don't know about you guys.

00:19:17 ◼   ► I am totally overwhelmed by this.

00:19:18 ◼   ► I don't even know, I mean, I guess we can just go chronologically, but I don't, we're

00:19:22 ◼   ► not going to be able to cover all this even in one show.

00:19:24 ◼   ► I mean, our podcast is shorter than the keynote.

00:19:26 ◼   ► >> Occasionally.

00:19:27 ◼   ► >> Yeah, well, I think we'll hit all the highlights.

00:19:31 ◼   ► I think we'll come revisit a lot of these things because, again, recording this the

00:19:34 ◼   ► day the keynote happened, I don't know about you guys, but I didn't have much time to research

00:19:38 ◼   ► all these things because the keynote ended and you know picking kids up and

00:19:41 ◼   ► making dinner like I didn't you know so this is the same thing we do after

00:19:44 ◼   ► WWDC get overwhelmed with a bunch of information see a big thing and then

00:19:47 ◼   ► talk about it so I'm sure well I think we that's why I put them all in my notes

00:19:50 ◼   ► I think we'll be able to hit all of them and then towards the end it once we've

00:19:54 ◼   ► gone through all them we can get bogged down details and follow up on that next

00:19:57 ◼   ► week as for the Mac stuff that you were mentioning I think it's it's

00:20:01 ◼   ► understandable because the only Mac thing that I could possibly have to

00:20:04 ◼   ► announced was LCAP which we've seen a million times before. I don't think

00:20:09 ◼   ► there are any surprises there and even if they had any new hardware it would be

00:20:13 ◼   ► exactly the kind of thing to get cut for space and they had tons of other stuff

00:20:16 ◼   ► and they're only doing one show and so that stuff gets cut. It's not much of a

00:20:20 ◼   ► slight because all they would have been doing is demoing things we've already

00:20:23 ◼   ► seen and showing us hardware that does not surprise us in any way which would

00:20:28 ◼   ► be nice you know it's a nice announcement oh look the new Macs are

00:20:30 ◼   ► out and here are their features and I wonder which chips they put in them I

00:20:33 ◼   ► I wonder what the prices are, but other than that, there's nothing like, you know, one

00:20:37 ◼   ► of the Macs comes with a pencil or something, you know, so if you just rank things in priority

00:20:42 ◼   ► order and cut off it to the two hour mark, all the Mac related stuff happens to fall

00:20:45 ◼   ► off the bottom, which I think is fine, you know, like I think the Mac got a lot of screen

00:20:50 ◼   ► time at WWDC, you know, disproportionate to the amount of money that it makes Apple and

00:20:56 ◼   ► the amount of Macs that they sell and, you know, all out of proportion with everything

00:21:00 ◼   ► else.

00:21:01 ◼   ► This was not the show for the Macs, this was the show for the other stuff.

00:21:05 ◼   ► So I thought it was fine, I didn't think the Mac got slighted in any way.

00:21:08 ◼   ► All right, so let's start with the watch.

00:21:11 ◼   ► New Apple Watch stuff.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Yeah, there's some new colors for the Apple Watch.

00:21:17 ◼   ► I was actually hugely disappointed that the rose, well not rose gold, what are they called?

00:21:23 ◼   ► Yeah, rose gold, the pink one.

00:21:25 ◼   ► That that wasn't a thing when the watch came out because I think Aaron would have loved

00:21:29 ◼   ► that.

00:21:30 ◼   ► when I tried to quickly rewatch the keynote this afternoon, Erin seemed very unimpressed by it,

00:21:37 ◼   ► so I'm not sure if she really would have loved it, but typically she likes that kind of pink,

00:21:42 ◼   ► that very like soft pink. She loved her pink razor, which I think we've talked about in parts

00:21:47 ◼   ► in the past. Not to say the pink is only for girls, but the girl that I know best happens to

00:21:52 ◼   ► really like pink, and so that's why I bring it up. There's the new band by Hermes, is that right?

00:21:59 ◼   ► I believe it's Hermes.

00:22:01 ◼   ► Yeah, you're right. You're right.

00:22:02 ◼   ► Sorry, I was trying really hard to remember, but that's okay.

00:22:04 ◼   ► I didn't know that before today.

00:22:05 ◼   ► Neither did I.

00:22:06 ◼   ► I would have said Hermes until today.

00:22:08 ◼   ► Yeah, so there's new bands.

00:22:09 ◼   ► Clearly not targeted to me because I think the one that wraps double around your wrist looks absolutely ridiculous

00:22:14 ◼   ► and it seems like it would be a pain in the butt to put on.

00:22:17 ◼   ► So, obviously not for me.

00:22:19 ◼   ► Pain in the butt to put on has no bearing on fashion.

00:22:22 ◼   ► That's true.

00:22:22 ◼   ► Second of all, yeah, I've been told by my expert wife that that is very much in fashion right now.

00:22:28 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I mean, whatever.

00:22:30 ◼   ► Did you see the giant cuff for men? Did you see that?

00:22:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't understand that. It's like you're being shackled to your watch.

00:22:37 ◼   ► Like, "This watch, this strap is not enough to hold it to my wrist. I need something bigger."

00:22:40 ◼   ► Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, this is way beyond our understanding, because this is high fashion, and we are not high fashion.

00:22:49 ◼   ► Maybe it blocks bullets.

00:22:51 ◼   ► Wonder Woman!

00:22:53 ◼   ► Is that a Wonder Woman reference? Is that right?

00:22:55 ◼   ► That is.

00:22:56 ◼   ► You guys were too young for that show.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Yeah, well, there's that.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Okay, so new colors, new bands, brief mention of watchOS 2.

00:23:04 ◼   ► I gotta tell you as quick as I am, I'm really freaking stoked for custom complications,

00:23:10 ◼   ► or third-party complications.

00:23:11 ◼   ► I actually am intending to write a blog post about this if and when I ever have a chance

00:23:14 ◼   ► to breathe, but I can think of a handful of apps that I would love to have custom complications

00:23:20 ◼   ► for.

00:23:21 ◼   ► And what is the face that has no analog portion to it?

00:23:24 ◼   ► The modular?

00:23:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I believe so.

00:23:26 ◼   ► believe so. So the modular face, I think it's aesthetically hideous, but if the right set

00:23:31 ◼   ► of complications came out, I would probably switch to that. I'm really, really stoked

00:23:38 ◼   ► for watchOS 2. Have you done much with overcast for watchOS 2? I don't know if I should say

00:23:44 ◼   ► this or not. I literally haven't started. Well, you're going to have a busy fall, I'd

00:23:50 ◼   ► say. Yeah, I mean, because it's mostly because the more I use the watch, and I don't want

00:23:55 ◼   ► I don't want to go too far into this now,

00:23:56 ◼   ► because we have a lot of other stuff to talk about.

00:23:58 ◼   ► But basically, the more I use the watch,

00:24:01 ◼   ► the less interested I am in running apps on it.

00:24:03 ◼   ► And I really like the watch, and I use it every day,

00:24:07 ◼   ► I'm always wearing it, I love the activity tracking,

00:24:10 ◼   ► I love notifications, I love so much about the watch

00:24:13 ◼   ► in reality, but I don't love the apps on it,

00:24:16 ◼   ► and I don't think I'm alone in that.

00:24:18 ◼   ► I think this is a very common opinion of it,

00:24:20 ◼   ► where people keep going on and on about

00:24:24 ◼   ► the watch is going to replace, well before the watch came out people went on and on about

00:24:27 ◼   ► how it's going to replace phones and I was a little skeptical about that and I think

00:24:30 ◼   ► my skepticism has proven to be correct that I don't think watches can replace phones.

00:24:37 ◼   ► I think anyone who has one of these smart watches will probably agree with that. That

00:24:42 ◼   ► it isn't an issue of like oh just wait a couple years and the hardware will be so much better.

00:24:47 ◼   ► It's literally just like the ergonomics and the physical sides of things just don't work

00:24:52 ◼   ► out that well. The watch is really cool for a lot of things, but being a general-purpose

00:24:59 ◼   ► app platform isn't one of those things, as far as I'm concerned.

00:25:02 ◼   ► Now, there are a lot of things that could be done better that would improve the situation.

00:25:08 ◼   ► With watchOS 2 custom complications, I think they're making a lot of headway into that.

00:25:13 ◼   ► But I also think that when Apple designed the watch, I think they made a bunch of mistakes

00:25:19 ◼   ► the UI and the software structure.

00:25:21 ◼   ► And I would have made it a lot simpler, honestly.

00:25:26 ◼   ► And we talked--

00:25:26 ◼   ► I don't want to get too far into this.

00:25:27 ◼   ► We'll talk about it on another show.

00:25:29 ◼   ► But I would have basically done only the watch face,

00:25:33 ◼   ► complications, and notifications, and glances, and

00:25:36 ◼   ► not have the home screen, not have apps that are like these

00:25:40 ◼   ► navigation hierarchy trees or that are really meant to do

00:25:44 ◼   ► anything beyond a few seconds long.

00:25:47 ◼   ► So anyway, I haven't started working on Overcast for the watch in part because it isn't a high

00:25:53 ◼   ► priority for me as a user of Overcast.

00:25:56 ◼   ► That the watch app I have now works okay.

00:25:59 ◼   ► When I get a chance I'm going to do the watchOS 2 app.

00:26:03 ◼   ► I'm not going to tackle trying to play things directly from the watch with no phone nearby

00:26:08 ◼   ► anytime soon because I looked into it at WVDC and it's basically extremely limited in what

00:26:14 ◼   ► what you can do, extremely challenging,

00:26:16 ◼   ► and I think honestly it would kind of suck

00:26:18 ◼   ► the reality of moving these files back and forth.

00:26:22 ◼   ► How many people do you know now with the watch

00:26:24 ◼   ► who sync music over to it and listen on Bluetooth headphones

00:26:27 ◼   ► while they jog?

00:26:28 ◼   ► I don't know anybody, I mean, I know you can do that,

00:26:30 ◼   ► and I know people want that,

00:26:32 ◼   ► but I don't know anybody who's actually tried it

00:26:34 ◼   ► and has wanted to do it more than once,

00:26:36 ◼   ► just because it's so cumbersome

00:26:39 ◼   ► to transfer data back and forth.

00:26:40 ◼   ► And I mean, I barely even know enough people

00:26:43 ◼   ► of Bluetooth headphones who could even do it at all.

00:26:44 ◼   ► But anyway, so I've been focused with Overcast

00:26:48 ◼   ► on streaming, streaming, streaming,

00:26:51 ◼   ► and getting 2.0 out the door.

00:26:52 ◼   ► And so I'm working on that.

00:26:54 ◼   ► The reality is almost all of Overcast's customers

00:26:58 ◼   ► are using it on an iPhone.

00:27:00 ◼   ► Very few of them even have an Apple Watch.

00:27:02 ◼   ► Very few of them use it on the iPad.

00:27:05 ◼   ► And none of them have an Apple TV yet, that matters.

00:27:08 ◼   ► So that's where I'm focusing my efforts.

00:27:10 ◼   ► On the iPhone app right now,

00:27:11 ◼   ► and then once I finish 2.0, which should be very soon,

00:27:14 ◼   ► then I can branch out to these other platforms

00:27:17 ◼   ► and start figuring out what might make sense there.

00:27:19 ◼   ► But for now, I haven't even touched it.

00:27:21 ◼   ► - All right, well, that's surprising,

00:27:24 ◼   ► but I am curious to see how that goes

00:27:26 ◼   ► once you start really digging into the OS/2 version,

00:27:30 ◼   ► and I'm gonna call it OS/2 forevermore,

00:27:32 ◼   ► because I want to.

00:27:33 ◼   ► - I mean, honestly, I hardly ever launched

00:27:36 ◼   ► the Overcast app on my watch.

00:27:37 ◼   ► I almost never use it.

00:27:40 ◼   ► And I think that's kind of a problem for me as a developer,

00:27:44 ◼   ► but I hear from people, when I ask people who use the app,

00:27:49 ◼   ► I hear from them similar things that it just isn't

00:27:54 ◼   ► as useful as we thought it would be for that kind of role.

00:27:57 ◼   ► Now for all the other things, like for the things

00:27:59 ◼   ► I mentioned, notifications, time stuff,

00:28:02 ◼   ► watch face complications, glances,

00:28:04 ◼   ► it's very good at those things, except glances.

00:28:08 ◼   ► It's very good at the other parts of those things.

00:28:10 ◼   ► If that's all it ever does,

00:28:12 ◼   ► that's still a really nice device for a lot of people,

00:28:15 ◼   ► myself included.

00:28:15 ◼   ► I'm still very happy I bought it for all those reasons.

00:28:18 ◼   ► If it never runs an app in the typical,

00:28:21 ◼   ► go back to the Honeycomb screen, find the icon,

00:28:23 ◼   ► launch the icon, do some things in the app.

00:28:25 ◼   ► If I never do that again with the watch,

00:28:27 ◼   ► I'll be fine with this product.

00:28:29 ◼   ► - That's interesting.

00:28:30 ◼   ► There's not a lot of watch apps that I use,

00:28:32 ◼   ► but the ones I use I do quite like.

00:28:33 ◼   ► I really like Fantastic Owl.

00:28:35 ◼   ► I really like this Baby Connect app

00:28:37 ◼   ► that we're probably not gonna be using much longer

00:28:38 ◼   ► 'cause Declan's getting quite a bit older now.

00:28:41 ◼   ► Dark Sky is good.

00:28:43 ◼   ► Yeah, that's about it.

00:28:44 ◼   ► When I'm traveling, there's some others that I use,

00:28:46 ◼   ► but that doesn't happen terribly often.

00:28:47 ◼   ► John, are you using any third-party apps

00:28:50 ◼   ► for your watch really?

00:28:50 ◼   ► - I don't use them apps much either,

00:28:52 ◼   ► but I find myself still forgetting and being frustrated

00:28:55 ◼   ► by the fact that the watch is so much less useful

00:28:58 ◼   ► without the phone.

00:28:59 ◼   ► Like if I don't have my phone in my pocket

00:29:01 ◼   ► and I'm just wearing my watch, oh, that's right,

00:29:03 ◼   ► I'm not going to get text messages.

00:29:05 ◼   ► I'm not going to see when a new calendar,

00:29:10 ◼   ► well, I guess I'll see the calendar right

00:29:11 ◼   ► so they synced, but the communication,

00:29:14 ◼   ► that it does all its communication through the phone

00:29:16 ◼   ► and that once you are, if you leave your phone at your desk

00:29:19 ◼   ► and you go to a meeting, I will not see it.

00:29:21 ◼   ► My wife texts me something

00:29:22 ◼   ► and I forget that that's the case.

00:29:24 ◼   ► I forget that the, because you start using it

00:29:26 ◼   ► for those roles where it's like you're sort of

00:29:29 ◼   ► on the wrist tapping you, notifications of things going on,

00:29:33 ◼   ► you start to believe that the watch is its own thing.

00:29:35 ◼   ► You're like, I just need my watch.

00:29:36 ◼   ► I don't need to take my phone out of my pocket.

00:29:38 ◼   ► But then you're like, I don't even need my phone.

00:29:39 ◼   ► And you do.

00:29:40 ◼   ► So I'm looking forward to seven years from now

00:29:43 ◼   ► when it can do all those same things that Marco described,

00:29:47 ◼   ► but not rely on the phone for all of them.

00:29:49 ◼   ► And maybe it'll be more than seven years.

00:29:51 ◼   ► Because for that functionality,

00:29:53 ◼   ► a lot of the times that's all I need out of it.

00:29:56 ◼   ► I don't need to be launching apps on my phone

00:29:58 ◼   ► or surfing the web.

00:29:59 ◼   ► I just need to make and receive phone calls and texts

00:30:02 ◼   ► and have an up-to-date synchronized calendar

00:30:04 ◼   ► and maybe do some basic lookups of contact information.

00:30:09 ◼   ► That can all fit on the watch

00:30:13 ◼   ► 'cause then I'm not like I'm typing on the watch,

00:30:14 ◼   ► I'm speaking into it.

00:30:15 ◼   ► I'm either using the speech to text

00:30:18 ◼   ► or I'm sending audio things to people

00:30:20 ◼   ► or I'm doing phone calls over the tinny little thing.

00:30:22 ◼   ► Like it's just for two second little spurts of things.

00:30:26 ◼   ► So that's the place where I feel the watch has room to grow.

00:30:30 ◼   ► That and also the thing that they've done here,

00:30:32 ◼   ► getting back to the announcement,

00:30:33 ◼   ► is I'm glad to see that they are branching out aesthetically

00:30:37 ◼   ► like that they're not going to,

00:30:39 ◼   ► you know, here's a bunch of watches you can get

00:30:40 ◼   ► and then, you know, a year from now,

00:30:43 ◼   ► or two years from now,

00:30:45 ◼   ► when we make the next version,

00:30:46 ◼   ► the watch will be a different fashion.

00:30:47 ◼   ► Like they're willing to play with it,

00:30:49 ◼   ► that they have, you know, more colors, more styles,

00:30:52 ◼   ► more watch faces,

00:30:53 ◼   ► and I think they should do even more of that.

00:30:54 ◼   ► In particular, the watch faces,

00:30:55 ◼   ► where they're kind of like,

00:30:56 ◼   ► oh, if you get this special band,

00:30:58 ◼   ► who get the special watch face.

00:31:00 ◼   ► I guess they have to do that for branding purposes,

00:31:02 ◼   ► but they probably own the designs of these,

00:31:04 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't know.

00:31:05 ◼   ► Anyway, I think that's the next area

00:31:07 ◼   ► that needs to open up is watch face,

00:31:09 ◼   ► third-party watch faces,

00:31:11 ◼   ► because all this type of customization

00:31:13 ◼   ► makes people feel more of a connection with this thing.

00:31:17 ◼   ► Like there are so many varieties you can get now

00:31:19 ◼   ► and so many colors and so many bands,

00:31:21 ◼   ► and I think they should let people

00:31:23 ◼   ► have third-party watch faces as well,

00:31:24 ◼   ► because that is an area,

00:31:25 ◼   ► like Marco's like he's not really enthused

00:31:27 ◼   ► about making a watchOS app,

00:31:30 ◼   ► because he doesn't find himself using apps,

00:31:31 ◼   ► but everybody uses the watch face.

00:31:33 ◼   ► And if you are a designer,

00:31:34 ◼   ► I bet you'd be really jazzed about a chance

00:31:36 ◼   ► to make your own watch face.

00:31:38 ◼   ► Or even, you know, so much so that even Marco might make one

00:31:41 ◼   ► with like watch hands that move out of the way

00:31:44 ◼   ► so you can see the little date complication,

00:31:46 ◼   ► you know, or whatever.

00:31:47 ◼   ► Like, it just seems like a fun thing to do

00:31:50 ◼   ► and play to the strengths of the watch.

00:31:52 ◼   ► Right now, apps are not the strength of the watch,

00:31:54 ◼   ► but who knows?

00:31:55 ◼   ► With the watchOS 2, maybe more people will find more apps.

00:32:00 ◼   ► Like Casey's found a few, I've found basically zero,

00:32:02 ◼   ► Marco's found zero.

00:32:03 ◼   ► If watchOS 2, after six months of development,

00:32:08 ◼   ► can get me and Marco to have one app

00:32:10 ◼   ► that we use all the time,

00:32:11 ◼   ► that will be a victory for the platform.

00:32:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's fair.

00:32:15 ◼   ► All right, anything else about the watch?

00:32:16 ◼   ► - Well, do you guys think, so obviously,

00:32:19 ◼   ► the big news with the watch today

00:32:20 ◼   ► is that they added a ton of bands and new body colors.

00:32:25 ◼   ► So they added, you mentioned they added the rose gold sport,

00:32:29 ◼   ► also the gold sport, right?

00:32:31 ◼   ► Was there, that's two?

00:32:32 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, you're right.

00:32:33 ◼   ► I believe that's right.

00:32:33 ◼   ► - I think, yeah, so there's,

00:32:34 ◼   ► they just doubled the number of colors in the sport line

00:32:37 ◼   ► for the watch body, plus they added the Hermes line,

00:32:40 ◼   ► plus they have like, they have like 10 new sport band colors.

00:32:44 ◼   ► It's this massive number of new colors there.

00:32:47 ◼   ► It's like more than triple,

00:32:48 ◼   ► it's like triple the number of support band colors

00:32:49 ◼   ► that we have.

00:32:50 ◼   ► Plus there's now a, they totally remade the classic buckle.

00:32:55 ◼   ► Now it looks like it's a little bit thicker,

00:32:56 ◼   ► it's two-tone leather on the black

00:32:58 ◼   ► and they also added a brown version, which is very nice,

00:33:02 ◼   ► at least in the picture so far.

00:33:03 ◼   ► They basically just added tons of new watch options

00:33:08 ◼   ► only a few months after the watch was released,

00:33:11 ◼   ► obviously leading to the holiday season.

00:33:13 ◼   ► Do you guys think this is a sign

00:33:16 ◼   ► that they're kind of a little bit desperate

00:33:18 ◼   ► to boost the sales of the watch?

00:33:20 ◼   ► - No, I think they're just hitting their production ramp.

00:33:22 ◼   ► Like it was supply constrained in the beginning

00:33:25 ◼   ► and now they have the capacity

00:33:27 ◼   ► and have worked out the manufacturing

00:33:28 ◼   ► and they can just start branching out.

00:33:29 ◼   ► And then with any fashion accessory,

00:33:30 ◼   ► you wanna have more varieties.

00:33:32 ◼   ► Like in the beginning for the launch,

00:33:33 ◼   ► it's just you have to necessarily keep things somewhat narrow

00:33:37 ◼   ► and now they can branch out and offer people more variety.

00:33:40 ◼   ► And I think it's really just about people who are like,

00:33:43 ◼   ► when the big rush to get the watches,

00:33:45 ◼   ► like oh I don't know if that's any good I'm not gonna bother I don't want to

00:33:47 ◼   ► fight the crowds now you'll be able to get one of the holiday season is coming

00:33:50 ◼   ► up if you are interested in a watch you know maybe you looked at the previous

00:33:55 ◼   ► models and you didn't want to deal with the rush and none of them really appeal

00:33:59 ◼   ► to you and now you're casually wander into a store and you should be struck by

00:34:03 ◼   ► the fact that oh I didn't like any of those ones that I saw pictures of before

00:34:06 ◼   ► but I would like this color with this thing like it's a it's a good timing for

00:34:09 ◼   ► them for the holidays to just have more variety I don't think it's a desperation

00:34:13 ◼   ► thing because like the product hasn't changed it's the same watch it always was all they're doing is

00:34:17 ◼   ► giving people more variety and

00:34:20 ◼   ► It coincides nicely with watch OS 2 which you know

00:34:24 ◼   ► regular people don't know the difference between watch OS 1 and 2 or whatever like

00:34:28 ◼   ► This this watch for this holiday season in this variety as far as the casual public who has been who had been dismissing the Apple

00:34:34 ◼   ► Watch is concerned

00:34:36 ◼   ► This is how the Apple watch always has been and they'll take an interest in it and they'll think this is how

00:34:41 ◼   ► the watch was from day one, but it's not so I think they're just

00:34:43 ◼   ► Getting a product line that's more appropriate for the holidays

00:34:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it could be indicative of trouble in paradise

00:34:50 ◼   ► But I do agree with John that I think it's just that they're hitting their production production ramp and just getting their feet under them

00:34:56 ◼   ► So to speak so I'm not too worried yet

00:34:58 ◼   ► Yeah

00:34:59 ◼   ► And also like the watch is still a phone you can't get one of these unless you have an iPhone

00:35:03 ◼   ► Right, and so it's never it's not going to be like oh we get to worry about watch

00:35:07 ◼   ► It's always going to be a subset of iPhone sales and in the beginning

00:35:10 ◼   ► it's gonna be a really small subset.

00:35:11 ◼   ► So it's not as if Apple was expecting the watch

00:35:13 ◼   ► to be a breakout product.

00:35:14 ◼   ► That's why they said before they even released the watch,

00:35:16 ◼   ► we're not gonna break out the numbers for you and everything

00:35:18 ◼   ► 'cause they know it's not gonna be big in the beginning.

00:35:21 ◼   ► It's always going to be until they break it free

00:35:23 ◼   ► of the iPhone if they ever do.

00:35:25 ◼   ► Like I said, seven years now or something.

00:35:27 ◼   ► But it's something they wanna do.

00:35:30 ◼   ► No one has really said this,

00:35:33 ◼   ► but in the wake of the Apple TV thing,

00:35:34 ◼   ► you could kinda consider Apple Watch their new hobby.

00:35:37 ◼   ► - That's interesting.

00:35:38 ◼   ► We don't know the numbers, so you can't say number wise it is or whatever, but it looks

00:35:44 ◼   ► a lot like a hobby, doesn't it?

00:35:45 ◼   ► It's a cool accessory that you can get for the phone, which is their meat and potatoes,

00:35:49 ◼   ► and you do lots of fun, interesting stuff with it, and you don't break up the numbers

00:35:54 ◼   ► for people, and it's not as if there's any sort of platform that lives or dies based

00:35:58 ◼   ► on the sales of the watch or anything like...

00:36:00 ◼   ► It seems hobbyish to me.

00:36:02 ◼   ► I don't know, maybe I'm totally wrong, and some people who know the real numbers or who

00:36:05 ◼   ► can like back solve for them like Horace they do or whatever can tell me that they

00:36:09 ◼   ► sold more watches in the first 24 hours than all Apple TVs ever sold which is probably

00:36:12 ◼   ► true and the watches margins got to be much better than the Apple TV so it could be you

00:36:17 ◼   ► know I could be way off on this but it strikes me as because it is a subordinate product

00:36:22 ◼   ► because it is basically the world's fanciest iPhone accessory and it's still in that infancy

00:36:27 ◼   ► remember when only weird people had iPhones or had smartphones at all that's the stage

00:36:31 ◼   ► Apple watches at it now. Like when, when, uh...

00:36:33 ◼   ► Well, the iPhone was never at that stage.

00:36:35 ◼   ► It was. When, when the first iPhone came out, and it was like $600 or whatever, like only

00:36:40 ◼   ► weird people had iPhones. There was a lot, like if you look at the, the little ramp of

00:36:44 ◼   ► like how many cumulative number of iPhones sold, it started out pretty slow. It was just

00:36:49 ◼   ► like the people who really believed and people wanted it, but it seemed expensive because

00:36:52 ◼   ► there was no, every other phone didn't look like the iPhone at that point. Uh, and smart

00:36:57 ◼   ► watches, I still think are in that early phase. So I'm willing to give the watch a pretty

00:37:01 ◼   ► long time to go through its 3G, 3GS, 4 phase before the rest of the world starts to wake

00:37:08 ◼   ► up and look at it. And maybe then it will get out of the realm of potentially a hobby

00:37:14 ◼   ► product for Apple.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know. I honestly have a little bit of worry here for the Apple Watch only

00:37:21 ◼   ► because it does seem like, I can't imagine they were planning all along to launch all

00:37:27 ◼   ► these things this fall. Like all these new hardware varieties so soon after the launch

00:37:33 ◼   ► of the first watch.

00:37:34 ◼   ► >> But it's just color changes. Like they made a bunch of plastic bands and now they

00:37:38 ◼   ► can make the plastic in different colors. And like the anodized stuff, like they're

00:37:41 ◼   ► already doing it for the phone, they already have the processes probably the same. Like

00:37:44 ◼   ► it's very straightforward stuff. And it just seems to me that why would you not do this

00:37:50 ◼   ► then? There's a reason not to do it on launch, which is you really have to concentrate on

00:37:55 ◼   ► a few models and get the kinks worked out or whatever.

00:37:57 ◼   ► But once you've got all the kinks worked out, you're not designing a new watch.

00:38:00 ◼   ► It's the same old watch, just color stuff differently.

00:38:02 ◼   ► And it's so easy to do and it makes people happy.

00:38:05 ◼   ► And if you have enough manufacturing inventory to make sure you always have the one in the

00:38:08 ◼   ► color and the size that people want, why would you not do it?

00:38:13 ◼   ► The most obvious answer to me is why not wait until version two to do some of these things?

00:38:17 ◼   ► Like, you know, they don't do this with the iPhone.

00:38:18 ◼   ► The iPhone sells in way bigger volumes, very important to the company, makes them way more

00:38:22 ◼   ► money.

00:38:23 ◼   ► as much as a fashion accessory.

00:38:25 ◼   ► I think when the watch two comes out,

00:38:27 ◼   ► it will be re-constrained to a smaller set

00:38:29 ◼   ► of styles and colors again.

00:38:30 ◼   ► And then it will do the exact same thing

00:38:32 ◼   ► where the watch two, like,

00:38:34 ◼   ► assuming they don't do like a 2S or whatever,

00:38:35 ◼   ► the next watch that is different,

00:38:37 ◼   ► a different shape and size, right,

00:38:40 ◼   ► will have a limited set of colors,

00:38:43 ◼   ► similarly limited to the first one,

00:38:44 ◼   ► and then will branch out again.

00:38:46 ◼   ► Because I just don't think you can launch a brand new product

00:38:48 ◼   ► in this variety of colors and sizes and shapes and finishes

00:38:53 ◼   ► and all the other stuff.

00:38:55 ◼   ► - I don't know, I mean there is the possibility.

00:38:58 ◼   ► So when Tim Cook on the last News call said

00:39:03 ◼   ► that the Apple Watch is selling well,

00:39:05 ◼   ► and there was this report a couple days before that

00:39:07 ◼   ► from some survey company that said

00:39:09 ◼   ► there was a huge spike of pre-orders

00:39:10 ◼   ► and then it dropped and then it was not selling well anymore.

00:39:13 ◼   ► What he said did not actually contradict that report

00:39:16 ◼   ► because what he said was counting them

00:39:19 ◼   ► when they ship to customers,

00:39:20 ◼   ► not when they are ordered by customers.

00:39:23 ◼   ► And so if what he said could have been true

00:39:27 ◼   ► while that report was also true.

00:39:29 ◼   ► So this could all still be the case where what he said,

00:39:34 ◼   ► back then it was selling well,

00:39:37 ◼   ► it was selling by stock inventory standards

00:39:40 ◼   ► of when it ships, that's when it's charged,

00:39:41 ◼   ► that's when it's sold, that's when we bought the revenue.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Okay, so now leading into the holiday quarter,

00:39:48 ◼   ► another quarter's coming up,

00:39:50 ◼   ► if it isn't selling well,

00:39:52 ◼   ► They're gonna have to explain why.

00:39:54 ◼   ► Because someone's gonna, you know,

00:39:55 ◼   ► people are gonna look at these numbers,

00:39:56 ◼   ► they're gonna be able to figure out

00:39:57 ◼   ► in this other category, oh crap, this is kind of bad.

00:40:01 ◼   ► And hopefully the Apple TV is in there

00:40:02 ◼   ► to help boost it up there.

00:40:04 ◼   ► What if this, and again, this might not be the case,

00:40:07 ◼   ► this is the cynical take on this, right?

00:40:09 ◼   ► Or the skeptical take on this.

00:40:10 ◼   ► What if all these new bands and everything

00:40:13 ◼   ► are not only an attempt to juice new watch sales

00:40:16 ◼   ► earlier than they planned, but also an attempt

00:40:19 ◼   ► to get more money sooner out of existing watch owners

00:40:22 ◼   ► who are buying additional bands,

00:40:23 ◼   ► just trying to juice the watch quarter numbers

00:40:26 ◼   ► for, you know, in the short term,

00:40:28 ◼   ► just to get them until a future point

00:40:29 ◼   ► where they think that the sales will make up for it.

00:40:32 ◼   ► - I don't know how many extra bands

00:40:33 ◼   ► they're gonna sell to existing watch owners.

00:40:35 ◼   ► I feel like it's the same with the original iPhone.

00:40:38 ◼   ► iPhone came out, everyone who wanted one got one,

00:40:40 ◼   ► then a bunch of other people just stood back

00:40:42 ◼   ► and watched for a while.

00:40:43 ◼   ► And this has the advantage of the holidays

00:40:44 ◼   ► where it's like the watch came out,

00:40:46 ◼   ► everyone who wanted a watch got one,

00:40:47 ◼   ► everyone else just sat back and watched curiously

00:40:50 ◼   ► this whole watch thing and the holidays come along it's like well I mean that's

00:40:54 ◼   ► the you know the type of thing well it's by somebody something they wouldn't buy

00:40:57 ◼   ► for themselves someone might have been curious about the watch but they're not

00:41:00 ◼   ► gonna spend that money they don't know if it's a big deal they don't even know

00:41:02 ◼   ► if they're gonna like one someone will get it for him as a gift that's what the

00:41:05 ◼   ► holidays do that's why a holiday is a big shopping season so and the people

00:41:10 ◼   ► who are considering watches or wanted to get for themselves or whatever like I

00:41:15 ◼   ► think it will still be a small thing because I think of how many people how

00:41:19 ◼   ► How many people in the entire world ever own the iPhone 1?

00:41:22 ◼   ► Super small number.

00:41:23 ◼   ► This is the iPhone 1.

00:41:24 ◼   ► This is the first watch, just with different bands and different colors.

00:41:28 ◼   ► So I don't expect there to be a huge number of people who have this watch.

00:41:31 ◼   ► If the product is going to be successful, we have to look forward to the fourth iteration

00:41:35 ◼   ► of this and then see.

00:41:37 ◼   ► And again, it's always going to be capped by the number of iPhones.

00:41:39 ◼   ► So all you're looking at is what makes a successful watch?

00:41:42 ◼   ► What percentage of iPhone owners have to buy an Apple Watch for it to be a successful product?

00:41:46 ◼   ► 1%?

00:41:47 ◼   ► 2%?

00:41:48 ◼   ► I think now it is much less than 1% and I think that's just to be expected.

00:41:54 ◼   ► So I'm not worried about the Apple Watch. I don't think Tim Cook is worried about the Apple Watch, especially since

00:41:58 ◼   ► tech-wise and manufacturing-wise,

00:42:01 ◼   ► like, their investment and what they've done so far, they can cruise for a few years making progressively slightly better iterations of this watch without

00:42:09 ◼   ► breaking the bank. I'm sure they've already made back their money that they invested in developing this product.

00:42:14 ◼   ► I don't think they're worried about that.

00:42:16 ◼   ► I think they're willing to just continue to chase this category wherever it leads and it will be fine

00:42:20 ◼   ► Yeah, that's fair. Also one more thing. I think one of the reasons they might have been doing this also is

00:42:25 ◼   ► That you know when compared to other smartwatch vendors out there

00:42:30 ◼   ► Apple already had I think way more options for bands colors and sizes and materials than anyone else and

00:42:37 ◼   ► Now they've really taken a massive lead on that like, you know, they already had the lead now. It's in way wider lead

00:42:43 ◼   ► where

00:42:45 ◼   ► competitively, if you look at the Samsung Galaxy S whatever versus the LG whatever versus

00:42:51 ◼   ► the Motorola 270 whatever, then Apple, like anyone who's actually comparing these side

00:42:56 ◼   ► by side, which I don't think honestly is a big number, but anyone actually comparing

00:42:59 ◼   ► them side by side would be blown away by just how many choices they have from Apple's side,

00:43:05 ◼   ► and it's more likely that they can find something they like on Apple's side.

00:43:08 ◼   ► Yeah, and they're staking out the high ground. Like Apple always wants the most profitable

00:43:11 ◼   ► section of any business, and so the way you do that and anything that's remotely related

00:43:15 ◼   ► to fashion is make sure you're the one that's seen as the like, oh, we are partnering with

00:43:19 ◼   ► this fashion company whose name regular people can't pronounce and have never heard. Samsung

00:43:26 ◼   ► isn't, right? Or like, Apple is trying to make sure that when all the dust settles,

00:43:33 ◼   ► when someone thinks of what is that fancy smartwatch that all the fashion people are

00:43:38 ◼   ► into that the answer to that is Apple. And so they're like, that's why they're doing,

00:43:42 ◼   ► You know, that's why they have the really super expensive gold one.

00:43:45 ◼   ► That's why they're doing these partnerships with these fashion companies.

00:43:47 ◼   ► Regular people don't care about that.

00:43:48 ◼   ► No one's going to buy those super expensive, like, but it's all for positioning.

00:43:52 ◼   ► So they end up with the most profitable customers.

00:43:56 ◼   ► They end up with the one with the most cache, with the one that is seen as a status symbol,

00:44:02 ◼   ► even after everybody had like the iPhone.

00:44:04 ◼   ► Remember when the iPhone was a status symbol, like celebrities would have an iPhone?

00:44:07 ◼   ► Now nobody cares.

00:44:08 ◼   ► Everybody has an iPhone or a solid smartphone.

00:44:09 ◼   ► It's not a big deal.

00:44:11 ◼   ► I think what they're doing with the fashion partnerships and stuff is trying to make sure

00:44:14 ◼   ► that even after everybody has a smartwatch five years from now, no one cares, it's not

00:44:17 ◼   ► a big deal, and they come in cereal boxes, that through these silly partnerships where

00:44:22 ◼   ► someone sells you a strap of leather for $1,000 because it's got a particular name on it,

00:44:27 ◼   ► that is still seen in the same way that regular fashion is.

00:44:29 ◼   ► Who cares about these shoes or this dress or whatever?

00:44:33 ◼   ► Fashion is always going to be a status symbol and it's not tied to technology, it's tied

00:44:37 ◼   ► to exclusivity and who's got buzz and what's in style and Apple is just trying to stay

00:44:46 ◼   ► on top of that. They seem so much more dedicated to it than everyone else who's making smart

00:44:49 ◼   ► our watches right now.

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00:47:17 ◼   ► All right.

00:47:18 ◼   ► Federico Vittucci's time has come.

00:47:22 ◼   ► The iPad Pro.

00:47:23 ◼   ► I believe I heard screaming from the mountaintops of Italy when this was finally announced.

00:47:29 ◼   ► I am really intrigued by it.

00:47:32 ◼   ► There is no damn way I'm going to carry around a 13-inch iPad.

00:47:36 ◼   ► As someone who actually prefers an iPad Mini, I just don't see myself wanting a 13-inch

00:47:42 ◼   ► iPad.

00:47:43 ◼   ► That being said, it is intriguing if for no other reason than it's a remix of all the

00:47:47 ◼   ► things that came before it.

00:47:49 ◼   ► It's a remix of the paper app, it's a remix of the paper pencil, and it's a remix of the

00:47:56 ◼   ► Surface.

00:47:57 ◼   ► But we have in the show notes the A9X, so I assume, Jon, you'd like to start by talking

00:48:02 ◼   ► about that.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Really?

00:48:04 ◼   ► That's what we're talking about first?

00:48:05 ◼   ► - I just threw it in there,

00:48:06 ◼   ► like, you know, it's our way into talking about the A9

00:48:09 ◼   ► and it's just that Apple continues to rev its CPU lines

00:48:13 ◼   ► in ways that we were accustomed to

00:48:16 ◼   ► on the desktop and laptop years ago

00:48:19 ◼   ► and now these low power tablet and phone chips

00:48:22 ◼   ► are following the same trajectory.

00:48:24 ◼   ► I think a lot of regular people are wondering like,

00:48:26 ◼   ► why is the iPhone and iPad CPU

00:48:30 ◼   ► like getting twice as fast every year,

00:48:32 ◼   ► but my MacBook CPU does not get twice as fast every year.

00:48:35 ◼   ► And the answer is that the iPhone and the iPad CPUs

00:48:39 ◼   ► are playing catch up.

00:48:40 ◼   ► They started out way, way, way slower than your MacBook

00:48:42 ◼   ► and they're catching up to it.

00:48:43 ◼   ► Once they do catch up with it,

00:48:44 ◼   ► they will not be doubling anymore.

00:48:46 ◼   ► Like there's no magic here.

00:48:48 ◼   ► There's a little, potentially a little bit of advantage

00:48:50 ◼   ► of Apple controlling all this stuff.

00:48:52 ◼   ► And that's something we'll get to in another show

00:48:53 ◼   ► related to that that we'll talk about,

00:48:55 ◼   ► but that's why they're doubling.

00:48:58 ◼   ► But anyway, Apple continues to put out those graphs

00:49:00 ◼   ► like look how much faster our CPUs and GPUs have gotten

00:49:04 ◼   ► in our iPad and it is impressive.

00:49:05 ◼   ► Like the GPUs are better and you know,

00:49:08 ◼   ► it was like 22X CPU increase in a 360X GPU speed.

00:49:13 ◼   ► They started out so darn slow.

00:49:14 ◼   ► Like that's the magic of that graph.

00:49:16 ◼   ► Like, 'cause if you just look what the axes are labeled

00:49:18 ◼   ► and look how slow it was.

00:49:19 ◼   ► Yeah, so anyway, they're still getting faster.

00:49:21 ◼   ► The interesting thing that Apple didn't compare

00:49:24 ◼   ► the iPad Pro 2 and didn't compare the A9X to at all

00:49:27 ◼   ► was any of its own laptops.

00:49:29 ◼   ► Because at this point, I feel like this thing

00:49:30 ◼   ► has to be faster than at least some laptops that Apple sells.

00:49:33 ◼   ► Don't you think?

00:49:34 ◼   ► Like in both CPU and GPU or some kind of synthetic benchmark

00:49:37 ◼   ► that you come up with that this thing is going to be faster

00:49:39 ◼   ► than like an 11 inch Air or something?

00:49:41 ◼   ► - Well, and also, I mean, compare it to its most obvious

00:49:44 ◼   ► alternative, the MacBook One.

00:49:46 ◼   ► I mean, I would guess it has to be faster

00:49:48 ◼   ► than the MacBook One at certain things.

00:49:50 ◼   ► - That might be a horse race depending on

00:49:53 ◼   ► what you're testing, maybe in GPU speed, I don't know.

00:49:55 ◼   ► But anyway, that aspect of it certainly fulfills the Pro.

00:49:59 ◼   ► But the 898 was pretty darn fast anyway, and the A9X, this is a worthy processor, I think,

00:50:07 ◼   ► for the iPad Pro.

00:50:08 ◼   ► Is it the first one that would have been powerful enough?

00:50:10 ◼   ► Because here's the two things about this.

00:50:12 ◼   ► They're pushing so many more pixels.

00:50:14 ◼   ► Remember what happened when we first went Retina on the iPad, it was a problem.

00:50:18 ◼   ► On this thing, it's already Retina, it's just a bigger screen.

00:50:21 ◼   ► They're pushing more pixels, and they keep talking about, "Oh, we can have this many

00:50:24 ◼   ► 4K video streams and stuff like that."

00:50:27 ◼   ► You have to have a pretty beefy GPU in there just to do basic things with this many pixels.

00:50:32 ◼   ► Look at what happened with the iPhone 6 Plus where it seems like it was just a little bit

00:50:35 ◼   ► underpowered and they had like the weird double-sized screen that they shrink down to fit in the

00:50:40 ◼   ► number of pixels and stuff.

00:50:41 ◼   ► I'm hoping they avoided all those compromises with this thing just because they have so

00:50:44 ◼   ► much more room to do everything in here.

00:50:46 ◼   ► So the CPU/GPU part definitely seems pro to me.

00:50:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, there's a lot about it.

00:50:52 ◼   ► To me, this is a very confusing product, honestly.

00:50:57 ◼   ► And it's probably just because it's not for me.

00:50:59 ◼   ► I really don't think this is for me.

00:51:01 ◼   ► And I honestly am not sure I know anybody who it is for, but I'm sure a lot of people

00:51:05 ◼   ► will be very happy about it.

00:51:07 ◼   ► It's just not me and the people I know.

00:51:09 ◼   ► But this is a really...

00:51:14 ◼   ► First of all, it's huge.

00:51:16 ◼   ► I mean, I guess, you know, if you can permit me to talk about the physical parts for a

00:51:21 ◼   ► minute.

00:51:22 ◼   ► It's massive, and it's heavy.

00:51:25 ◼   ► It weighs more than the iPad 1, and it's larger.

00:51:29 ◼   ► The MacBook 1, you mean?

00:51:30 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:51:31 ◼   ► No, no, no, I mean the iPad 1.

00:51:32 ◼   ► It weighs less than the MacBook 1.

00:51:34 ◼   ► With the keyboard thing?

00:51:36 ◼   ► Oh, maybe.

00:51:37 ◼   ► I didn't look at that.

00:51:39 ◼   ► So it's also, it's a bigger screen than the MacBook 1.

00:51:44 ◼   ► This is 12.9, the MacBook 1 I think is 12.0.

00:51:45 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what I'm getting at like this is this is not like this is a coming in to understand

00:51:50 ◼   ► It is exactly what makes it an iPad Pro is not like well

00:51:53 ◼   ► I would bring a laptop, but I want something smaller so I bought the iPad Pro

00:51:56 ◼   ► It's like Tim said on the stage

00:51:58 ◼   ► I think someone tweeted like he reemphasized for the millionth time as I've said on past shows as well

00:52:03 ◼   ► that the iPad is

00:52:06 ◼   ► The future of computing as far as Apple's concerned. They're just

00:52:09 ◼   ► frustrated by their inability to make it happen, but they really believe that

00:52:14 ◼   ► That this this kind of platform is the future of computing not a not a continuous low steady evolution of plain old desktop computers

00:52:21 ◼   ► And they haven't proved that in either the market or to the customers

00:52:25 ◼   ► But finally they're making forward progress again after many many years of just making differently sized, but equally boring very large phones

00:52:31 ◼   ► So the keep the keyboard the stylus that we'll get to and it's not a stylus. It's a pencil and all the other things

00:52:38 ◼   ► Shows that they're finally moving in that direction again. Are they right? I don't know

00:52:43 ◼   ► But you have to see this thing through.

00:52:47 ◼   ► Like if you really believe that this is the way

00:52:50 ◼   ► that most people will be doing most of the things

00:52:52 ◼   ► they do with computers in the future,

00:52:54 ◼   ► then you have to make products that prove it.

00:52:55 ◼   ► And so this is the first attempt.

00:52:57 ◼   ► - As we talked about a couple weeks ago,

00:53:00 ◼   ► I think this is gonna face a lot of the same challenges

00:53:03 ◼   ► that every iPad has faced.

00:53:04 ◼   ► And just from the physical side,

00:53:08 ◼   ► it is gonna be tough because where iPads

00:53:11 ◼   ► have been strong before, things like casual reading in bed

00:53:16 ◼   ► or couch use and stuff like that.

00:53:18 ◼   ► For a lot of those things, this is actually gonna be

00:53:20 ◼   ► uncomfortably large and heavy now for a lot of people.

00:53:24 ◼   ► It's actually taking a step backwards in some of those areas

00:53:27 ◼   ► in order to achieve the big screen and everything else.

00:53:29 ◼   ► And I don't think they could have done a lot better

00:53:32 ◼   ► with that, I think this is just the physical realities

00:53:35 ◼   ► of a device that has a screen this large.

00:53:37 ◼   ► So there's gonna be some challenges there.

00:53:40 ◼   ► But also, ergonomically, obviously this is made to be used

00:53:45 ◼   ► with the keyboard probably frequently, I would say.

00:53:48 ◼   ► - I don't know about that because it has,

00:53:50 ◼   ► didn't they emphasize the full size

00:53:52 ◼   ► on-screen keyboard as well?

00:53:54 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, they gave it a couple seconds, but--

00:53:55 ◼   ► - I know, well, so that's a piece of follow-up

00:53:57 ◼   ► that we skipped this week with someone saying that,

00:53:59 ◼   ► I think it was a teacher saying that the students

00:54:00 ◼   ► prefer the on-screen keyboard because physical keyboards

00:54:03 ◼   ► don't have the same sort of, I think they're saying

00:54:05 ◼   ► they don't have the same sort of auto-complete type stuff

00:54:07 ◼   ► whatever, I think a generation of people who grew up tapping on glass to type, it may not

00:54:13 ◼   ► be that crazy that they would prefer the on-screen keyboard.

00:54:16 ◼   ► Getting to the physical things that you're talking about, we'll talk about this in the

00:54:20 ◼   ► end, but whether I'm going to buy one or whatever, even though I've been so gung-ho for the iPad

00:54:24 ◼   ► Pro and I think this is a great product and it's going to be artists and other people

00:54:28 ◼   ► who really need a big screen and want the pencil and everything, and people who write

00:54:32 ◼   ► applications for those people, it gives them their first real shot to sell Pro apps to

00:54:35 ◼   ► to pro people using pro hardware,

00:54:37 ◼   ► it's still kind of two things in one here.

00:54:39 ◼   ► The two things are, first, make a bigger iPad

00:54:43 ◼   ► so people don't feel so constrained.

00:54:44 ◼   ► Give it, you know, for the people who want a big screen

00:54:46 ◼   ► to do things, you need more pixels, you need more detail,

00:54:48 ◼   ► and with a precision pointing device.

00:54:51 ◼   ► And second, let the iPad do more complicated things

00:54:55 ◼   ► with the keyboard, with the split screen or whatever.

00:54:57 ◼   ► And in this product, they are tied together.

00:54:59 ◼   ► It's gargantuan, it's way too big for most people,

00:55:02 ◼   ► it's not gonna sell well 'cause it's just too darn big,

00:55:04 ◼   ► like Margot said.

00:55:05 ◼   ► But all the features that are in this,

00:55:07 ◼   ► if you put them on the iPad Air 2 size device,

00:55:09 ◼   ► equally valuable to people who like that size device.

00:55:12 ◼   ► And I think you can shrink even all of them

00:55:14 ◼   ► down maybe to the mini if you make it a little bit bigger,

00:55:16 ◼   ► except for maybe the keyboard.

00:55:17 ◼   ► Like I feel like everything that is staked out

00:55:19 ◼   ► by this product, all the functionality,

00:55:21 ◼   ► even the little side port thing and all the OS features

00:55:24 ◼   ► and all the software that's gonna be written to it,

00:55:26 ◼   ► that is all valuable at sizes less than Gargantuan.

00:55:29 ◼   ► Unfortunately, this first product,

00:55:31 ◼   ► or fortunately for the people who are interested,

00:55:32 ◼   ► This is gargantuan plus all the fancy features.

00:55:35 ◼   ► And I think every single one of these fancy features

00:55:37 ◼   ► can and should trickle down to the extent possible

00:55:39 ◼   ► allowed by the sizes.

00:55:40 ◼   ► And I think that will eventually solve most of the problems

00:55:43 ◼   ► that you're talking about Marco,

00:55:44 ◼   ► because I agree with you.

00:55:45 ◼   ► This thing is really big.

00:55:46 ◼   ► I want an iPad Pro, I want this product.

00:55:49 ◼   ► I don't know if it's too big for me, I don't know.

00:55:52 ◼   ► I'm like, if I got this, I'd be like,

00:55:53 ◼   ► then I need a smaller iPad for like my other iPad.

00:55:56 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:55:57 ◼   ► I'll have to end the wait.

00:55:58 ◼   ► I mean, I'm using an iPad 3 now, which is massive anyway,

00:56:00 ◼   ► but I'm gonna have to try it out.

00:56:01 ◼   ► but this is the right move, I think,

00:56:03 ◼   ► 'cause this is staking out the high end.

00:56:05 ◼   ► It's like, if anybody's gonna want this Pro,

00:56:06 ◼   ► it's gotta go Pro, Pro, Pro, big, big, big,

00:56:09 ◼   ► pencil thing, fine arts, keyboard, people on the go,

00:56:13 ◼   ► doing typing, go to the Microsoft service thing.

00:56:15 ◼   ► This is huge, this is clearly pushing

00:56:19 ◼   ► in the high end type of product,

00:56:21 ◼   ► but I really, really hope they don't year after year

00:56:23 ◼   ► rev the iPad Pro and keep all these features to the big one,

00:56:26 ◼   ► 'cause I want all these on all the iPads

00:56:28 ◼   ► to the extent possible.

00:56:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree. You know, I was thinking that I would really kind of like to have a keyboard

00:56:37 ◼   ► cover for my iPad mini, which kind of disgusted me because—

00:56:41 ◼   ► Trust me, you don't.

00:56:42 ◼   ► Yeah, it kind of disgusted me because I realized that's a terrible idea. But that was my gut

00:56:46 ◼   ► reaction was, "Man, that would be kind of convenient for like when I'm traveling."

00:56:49 ◼   ► Because occasionally, I'll travel and not want to bring a 15-inch MacBook Pro, but want

00:56:54 ◼   ► something that I can type on to like write emails or something like that. And so occasionally

00:56:59 ◼   ► when I travel, I'll bring my Mini and my Apple wireless keyboard, which if I really think

00:57:06 ◼   ► that through is kind of ridiculous, but that's occasionally what happens.

00:57:10 ◼   ► And so I agree with you, Jon, that having a lot of these features for even the smaller

00:57:16 ◼   ► devices, I think that's fairly compelling.

00:57:18 ◼   ► Yeah, or even like the split-screen stuff, which they're confining possibly for CPU reasons,

00:57:24 ◼   ► possibly for RAM reasons, like just everything about this.

00:57:27 ◼   ► It's still two gigs of RAM, I think.

00:57:30 ◼   ► I don't know if that's been determined, but anyway.

00:57:32 ◼   ► The fact that it used to just be the Air 2

00:57:33 ◼   ► that had two gigs of RAM,

00:57:34 ◼   ► and that that extra RAM really makes the existing,

00:57:37 ◼   ► boring, pre-iOS 9 iOS experience so much better

00:57:40 ◼   ► just because your crap isn't all gone

00:57:41 ◼   ► when you switch applications.

00:57:44 ◼   ► Those type of hardware-based compromises

00:57:47 ◼   ► are going to leave on the high end first.

00:57:49 ◼   ► This CPU and GPU can be faster and hotter and bigger,

00:57:54 ◼   ► and they could put a huge battery in here,

00:57:55 ◼   ► and this can have the most pixels,

00:57:57 ◼   ► and it can handle the whatever they're doing

00:57:59 ◼   ► for the pencil stuff and all like,

00:58:01 ◼   ► all those things should trickle down

00:58:03 ◼   ► as eventually the iPad Air 2 class machine

00:58:06 ◼   ► can also handle all of that.

00:58:08 ◼   ► And eventually the mini class machine can handle it.

00:58:09 ◼   ► And maybe the mini will get a little bit bigger

00:58:11 ◼   ► and maybe the keyboard will be bigger than the device

00:58:12 ◼   ► because you can't have a keyboard that small

00:58:14 ◼   ► because it's insane.

00:58:15 ◼   ► And I think the most exciting thing about it is,

00:58:19 ◼   ► well, I would say the most exciting thing

00:58:21 ◼   ► is the addition of a rotation lock button,

00:58:23 ◼   ► but I don't think that's there.

00:58:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:58:24 ◼   ► But anyway, the fact that Apple actually

00:58:26 ◼   ► went in the opposite direction for once.

00:58:28 ◼   ► Instead of slowly removing every possible button

00:58:30 ◼   ► from the device, they added a new thing.

00:58:32 ◼   ► They added, it's not really a port kind of,

00:58:34 ◼   ► but they added three little buttons on the bottom.

00:58:36 ◼   ► That's a new connector.

00:58:37 ◼   ► It's like, that is a, you know, that's a pro feature.

00:58:40 ◼   ► You can connect other stuff to the thing with the thing.

00:58:43 ◼   ► There, you know, baby steps here, right?

00:58:45 ◼   ► They didn't add USB ports, right?

00:58:47 ◼   ► There's no SD card slot.

00:58:48 ◼   ► But if this is the future of computing,

00:58:50 ◼   ► they have to eventually figure out

00:58:53 ◼   ► in what ways are we going to allow this

00:58:55 ◼   ► to be expanded and hardware accessorize.

00:58:57 ◼   ► If you let it be expanded every way

00:58:59 ◼   ► that a PCB can be expanded,

00:59:00 ◼   ► you're just repeating the sins of the past

00:59:02 ◼   ► and just recreating the PC in a different form.

00:59:04 ◼   ► And I don't think Apple wants to do that.

00:59:05 ◼   ► So they're being cautious,

00:59:06 ◼   ► but I like seeing them move in that direction.

00:59:09 ◼   ► I like this not just being a Bluetooth accessory, right?

00:59:12 ◼   ► Why is it not Bluetooth?

00:59:14 ◼   ► Because the Bluetooth accessory is crappier.

00:59:15 ◼   ► The Bluetooth thing has to have batteries

00:59:17 ◼   ► and you got Bluetooth flakiness and it's like this.

00:59:19 ◼   ► We don't have to worry about that.

00:59:20 ◼   ► It's powered by the thing.

00:59:21 ◼   ► We have a giant battery in there.

00:59:23 ◼   ► You know, we can make the cover itself thinner,

00:59:26 ◼   ► although it still looks kind of like a hunchback

00:59:28 ◼   ► when you close it, 'cause it's like thick on one end

00:59:29 ◼   ► and kind of gross.

00:59:31 ◼   ► But anyway, generation one product, you know,

00:59:34 ◼   ► but I am excited.

00:59:35 ◼   ► That was the most exciting part of the reveal thing

00:59:36 ◼   ► was when they showed three little dots on the side.

00:59:39 ◼   ► I'm like, that's a new port.

00:59:40 ◼   ► You know, they didn't show a rotational lock,

00:59:43 ◼   ► which is disappointing.

00:59:43 ◼   ► I guess there just wasn't enough room

00:59:45 ◼   ► along the edge of the device.

00:59:46 ◼   ► They needed room for all those giant empty chambers

00:59:48 ◼   ► around the four speakers.

00:59:49 ◼   ► - One of the big things about this, I think,

00:59:52 ◼   ► besides the size obviously I'll keep harping on forever,

00:59:56 ◼   ► the price is interesting.

00:59:59 ◼   ► If you look at how this is positioned,

01:00:01 ◼   ► how other iPads were positioned before

01:00:03 ◼   ► and now how this is positioned against their other laptops,

01:00:05 ◼   ► this is really a laptop replacement.

01:00:10 ◼   ► Some people obviously, idiots like me will buy them

01:00:14 ◼   ► and use them as like toys

01:00:16 ◼   ► that also have every other kind of device,

01:00:18 ◼   ► but I really think like most people

01:00:21 ◼   ► are not gonna be spending $1,000 on a tablet

01:00:24 ◼   ► that is not going to replace a laptop.

01:00:27 ◼   ► For it to be this big and this expensive,

01:00:32 ◼   ► it has to replace laptops for most of its customers,

01:00:35 ◼   ► I would say.

01:00:36 ◼   ► And maybe that proves to be wrong, who knows,

01:00:38 ◼   ► but that's probably how it's gonna go.

01:00:39 ◼   ► I would also expect a much more laptop-like

01:00:42 ◼   ► replacement cycle, although I think we're seeing that

01:00:44 ◼   ► in most iPads, actually.

01:00:46 ◼   ► So the big thing to me is, software-wise,

01:00:50 ◼   ► are there a lot of people,

01:00:53 ◼   ► I know this is not gonna be all,

01:00:55 ◼   ► but are there a lot of people for whom

01:00:57 ◼   ► this can replace a laptop better than any other iPad?

01:01:01 ◼   ► Obviously some people can get by

01:01:02 ◼   ► with the other iPad just fine.

01:01:04 ◼   ► The people who couldn't, how many of them

01:01:06 ◼   ► will this be good enough for where the other iPads weren't?

01:01:09 ◼   ► - I'm thinking of this replacing a desktop

01:01:12 ◼   ► for the first customers.

01:01:15 ◼   ► I'm thinking again of the pencil,

01:01:16 ◼   ► which we haven't really talked about that much,

01:01:17 ◼   ► but like the type, what's the first,

01:01:19 ◼   ► it's a chicken egg thing,

01:01:20 ◼   ► so you need the hardware before you can make the software,

01:01:21 ◼   ► but what is the easiest market for,

01:01:24 ◼   ► if you're gonna sell an expensive application

01:01:26 ◼   ► that costs a lot of money to develop,

01:01:28 ◼   ► and you're not gonna sell a lot of copies,

01:01:29 ◼   ► but you're gonna sell them for a lot of money,

01:01:31 ◼   ► like, and these days, you know, $99.

01:01:33 ◼   ► It's an application, it's a design or art application.

01:01:37 ◼   ► They'll let somebody use this thing and the pencil,

01:01:40 ◼   ► assuming it works as advertised,

01:01:42 ◼   ► and it's all impressive and great and everything.

01:01:44 ◼   ► to do their main function, like their actual work,

01:01:47 ◼   ► not on the go, but at their desk at their job.

01:01:50 ◼   ► Like this is a little miniature Cintiq.

01:01:53 ◼   ► And I know most people would say, like for example,

01:01:56 ◼   ► someone who's using the Surface to do that today,

01:01:58 ◼   ► that's great and all, but if it doesn't run in Photoshop,

01:02:01 ◼   ► it's pointless to me because what am I gonna use

01:02:03 ◼   ► that stylus for?

01:02:03 ◼   ► I'm gonna use my Surface, I'm gonna run Photoshop

01:02:05 ◼   ► and I'm gonna get my work done

01:02:06 ◼   ► 'cause that's what I need to get my work done.

01:02:07 ◼   ► So Apple does have a huge software gap here,

01:02:10 ◼   ► but the history of the iPad leading up to this has been,

01:02:13 ◼   ► If Apple doesn't make pro hardware,

01:02:15 ◼   ► no one's gonna make pro software

01:02:16 ◼   ► and everyone's waiting for someone to go first.

01:02:18 ◼   ► So Apple went first.

01:02:19 ◼   ► And I think Apple is desperately hoping

01:02:20 ◼   ► that somebody, probably not Adobe,

01:02:22 ◼   ► is going to try to be the Photoshop of the iPad Pro

01:02:27 ◼   ► and get people to use this thing

01:02:29 ◼   ► as their actual computer, at their desk, at their work,

01:02:32 ◼   ► as like a desktop replacement.

01:02:34 ◼   ► And you can also read your email and check Twitter

01:02:36 ◼   ► and have a little YouTube video playing in the corner

01:02:38 ◼   ► and listen to your music and also be scribbling away

01:02:41 ◼   ► with your $100 Johnny Ive blessed pure white Apple pencil.

01:02:46 ◼   ► That I think is the vision for this product.

01:02:49 ◼   ► It's not a reality because if you buy this thing,

01:02:51 ◼   ► there's no application you can buy to do that stuff.

01:02:53 ◼   ► But you know, Apple wants there to be

01:02:55 ◼   ► and they showed AutoCAD and all these other things.

01:02:56 ◼   ► So I'm hopeful and I see where this product can go.

01:03:01 ◼   ► But I expect like, I expect not a lot of people to buy this.

01:03:09 ◼   ► I expect people to buy it and be bewildered by it.

01:03:12 ◼   ► And I just hope that everything that this product embodies,

01:03:17 ◼   ► more power, more RAM, more ports,

01:03:19 ◼   ► slowly spreads to the rest of the iPad line

01:03:22 ◼   ► because that will finally differentiate.

01:03:24 ◼   ► What is the difference between an iPad and an iPhone?

01:03:26 ◼   ► Is an iPad just a big iPhone?

01:03:27 ◼   ► This is not a big iPhone.

01:03:29 ◼   ► This is like the farthest thing from a big iPhone ever.

01:03:31 ◼   ► So kudos to Apple for doing this.

01:03:34 ◼   ► And I hope the next few years is as encouraging as possible.

01:03:39 ◼   ► as this announcement is to me and Vittigy and maybe five other people.

01:03:43 ◼   ► Oh goodness, so what do we think about this pencil? I do feel bad for the folks at, what

01:03:52 ◼   ► is it, 53? There's been a lot of Sherlocking going on in that direction, but…

01:03:57 ◼   ► Well look, when you choose a really generic name for your product, like you know, you

01:04:01 ◼   ► run the risks like this. Oh absolutely. But I was expecting to be

01:04:08 ◼   ► very blasé about the pencil. And again, it doesn't really speak to me because I don't

01:04:14 ◼   ► do the sorts of things that would require a stylus. I'm a terrible artist. I can't imagine

01:04:18 ◼   ► what else I would need it for. However, I thought it was a very clever piece of hardware.

01:04:23 ◼   ► I like that you can tilt it to get like a kind of side of a pencil stroke, which I guess

01:04:29 ◼   ► it just occurred to me that's why they call it a pencil and not a pen or anything like

01:04:32 ◼   ► that.

01:04:33 ◼   ► Wait, pens can do that too. Please don't email us.

01:04:36 ◼   ► Sort of but um, but I like you can do that obviously the pressure sensitivity. I think we all saw that coming

01:04:41 ◼   ► It's a very clever piece of kit, but I don't know it's I

01:04:45 ◼   ► Wish there was something that spoke to me, but there's nothing that speaks to me yet. I

01:04:50 ◼   ► Think it'll be fun for well

01:04:52 ◼   ► Here's here's where it helps if you're not

01:04:54 ◼   ► Someone who is a designer or a fine artist or someone who just noodles around and sketches and by the way

01:04:59 ◼   ► She's get one of these for TIFF because she'll love it to do her little art snacks things with well so far

01:05:03 ◼   ► When Tiff Tiff before this event I was asking her you know she was she was interested in a larger iPad

01:05:11 ◼   ► for video and game use and

01:05:14 ◼   ► Once she saw the event what she watched the event together. She now says she's no longer interested. It's too big yeah

01:05:21 ◼   ► Well, that's what I said the style a stylus is a perfect example of something that could fit perfectly

01:05:26 ◼   ► Well on an iPad air or a mini even like no problem on a mini because the thing doesn't fit inside the iPad

01:05:31 ◼   ► It's just an accessory. It's just that all those things don't have the screen for it

01:05:34 ◼   ► So give it a year or two that stuff should trickle down

01:05:36 ◼   ► yeah, I mean it's

01:05:39 ◼   ► this is one of those things like I

01:05:41 ◼   ► Have no opinion on the stylus because I have never been a paper and pencil or paper and pen person for anything

01:05:48 ◼   ► I'm not a graphic artist at all in any sense. I'm not a note-taker

01:05:52 ◼   ► That's I was getting it for the old fogies thing like a setting aside all the people

01:05:56 ◼   ► This is actually aimed at the other kind of person this can appeal to and we all know people like this who are like

01:06:00 ◼   ► usually older people who are actually more comfortable taking notes in their own handwriting.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Which seems totally ridiculous to those of us who grew up being excited by the fact that

01:06:12 ◼   ► we can press the A key on a keyboard and a perfect letter A appears and we don't have

01:06:15 ◼   ► to be subject to our own handwriting, right?

01:06:17 ◼   ► I was like, "That is the dream of these people."

01:06:19 ◼   ► Like, "You know what?

01:06:20 ◼   ► I would rather do my shopping list in my own little scroll."

01:06:23 ◼   ► And they just want a notes application that lets them write things and they want to do

01:06:27 ◼   ► it with their little pen.

01:06:28 ◼   ► I mean, we've all seen people using like the Galaxy Note and stuff like that.

01:06:31 ◼   ► People using very large phones with the stylus.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Some people just like it.

01:06:34 ◼   ► My own mother has used, I've seen her do it, an iPod Touch, a small one with a stylus.

01:06:40 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I've seen some family members use Styli with their phones because they just

01:06:45 ◼   ► prefer it.

01:06:46 ◼   ► I think it's insane, but that's what they prefer.

01:06:49 ◼   ► And so they're not going to buy a thousand dollar iPad or whatever.

01:06:51 ◼   ► Again, it's a trickle down thing.

01:06:53 ◼   ► eventually when this stuff gets,

01:06:56 ◼   ► spreads down the product line,

01:06:58 ◼   ► will they ever sell an Apple Pencil for the iPhone?

01:07:01 ◼   ► Probably not, but if they did, my mother would use it today.

01:07:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, no question,

01:07:06 ◼   ► I think there's a lot of people who wanna use this.

01:07:08 ◼   ► As I said, I'm not one of them, however,

01:07:11 ◼   ► I disagree, Jon, that note-taking is mostly

01:07:14 ◼   ► or only for old people.

01:07:16 ◼   ► I think there's a lot of kinds of note-taking for which--

01:07:19 ◼   ► - And hipsters.

01:07:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, no, no.

01:07:21 ◼   ► I think there's a lot of kinds of note-taking

01:07:23 ◼   ► for which I would prefer a pen to a keyboard and mouse.

01:07:28 ◼   ► If you're trying to dictate what somebody is saying,

01:07:31 ◼   ► then yeah, a keyboard is the way to go,

01:07:33 ◼   ► but for so many other kinds of note-taking,

01:07:35 ◼   ► brainstorming, design, there's so many things--

01:07:38 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that's like wire-framing UIs,

01:07:40 ◼   ► obviously it's better, right?

01:07:41 ◼   ► But you would actually write down text with it?

01:07:44 ◼   ► - Well, it depends.

01:07:45 ◼   ► In my limited time trying to take notes

01:07:49 ◼   ► as the terrible student that I was in college,

01:07:51 ◼   ► I never even tried it in high school.

01:07:53 ◼   ► In college, the terrible time I tried,

01:07:56 ◼   ► like math, I would definitely take math notes

01:07:58 ◼   ► using a pen, not a keyboard.

01:08:00 ◼   ► - 'Cause that's not typing you gotta do,

01:08:03 ◼   ► it's like practically drawing.

01:08:04 ◼   ► - Right, and there's like even computer science,

01:08:06 ◼   ► I think I would probably, like there's so many,

01:08:09 ◼   ► note taking to me is different from just transcribing

01:08:12 ◼   ► what somebody is saying, you know, that's--

01:08:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, so you're doing that note taking is not typing,

01:08:17 ◼   ► but like you see people when they have conference talks,

01:08:19 ◼   ► they'll try to summarize the conference talk

01:08:21 ◼   ► as it's going on, they'll draw little pictures

01:08:23 ◼   ► and put words and you know, it's a multimedia thing.

01:08:26 ◼   ► Like, yeah, I see what you're getting at,

01:08:28 ◼   ► although I think you probably have better handwriting

01:08:29 ◼   ► than I do because I feel like when text is involved at all,

01:08:33 ◼   ► like I need the Eat Up Martha feature.

01:08:35 ◼   ► I needed to turn my scroll into actual readable text

01:08:38 ◼   ► so I never have to see my handwriting again.

01:08:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I don't think we, did they mention

01:08:44 ◼   ► any handwriting recognition at all?

01:08:47 ◼   ► I don't think they did.

01:08:47 ◼   ► It's in OS X right now.

01:08:49 ◼   ► If you hook up a tablet, you can go use it.

01:08:52 ◼   ► And it is still basically eat up Martha caliber.

01:08:56 ◼   ► So, you know, baby steps.

01:08:57 ◼   ► Like this is not what this is aimed at.

01:08:59 ◼   ► It wasn't even mentioned.

01:09:00 ◼   ► I was probably not even in there,

01:09:01 ◼   ► but many years from now,

01:09:02 ◼   ► kind of like speech to text and text to speech,

01:09:05 ◼   ► eventually it just gets good enough that it's like,

01:09:08 ◼   ► why not add it ever?

01:09:09 ◼   ► Handwriting recognition is not at that stage yet,

01:09:11 ◼   ► but it will be eventually.

01:09:13 ◼   ► And I think like they showed it in the Microsoft thing.

01:09:15 ◼   ► Like people who are familiar with the Newton

01:09:17 ◼   ► like oh so I draw a rough shape and it makes a nice shape for me where have I seen that

01:09:21 ◼   ► before like that is this is not new technology but it still feels like magic to me when he

01:09:27 ◼   ► draws that little scroll of an arrow in the office application it becomes the little thing

01:09:30 ◼   ► it draws the circles and they become circles it's kind of the bad kind of magic and you

01:09:34 ◼   ► can never tell really what it's gonna do and half the time it doesn't work but that's like

01:09:39 ◼   ► a that's a glimpse of the magic future that someday if that worked as reliable as speech

01:09:44 ◼   ► of text does now. I mean, when I was a kid, I could never imagine that speech of text

01:09:48 ◼   ► would be so boring that we just, like, did anyone see, we'll get to Apple TV in a little

01:09:52 ◼   ► bit, but like the Apple TV Siri demo, and like, there's no way it's going to understand

01:09:56 ◼   ► my voice like that. We've all used Siri. Like, it's not great, but it is complete magic by

01:10:01 ◼   ► the standards of like, you know, a kid of the 80s. Like, when we were like, imagine

01:10:05 ◼   ► if just like every device with any amount of computing power, like, you can talk to

01:10:11 ◼   ► Your watch for crying out loud. You can talk to it and it will do a passable job of figuring out what you said and putting

01:10:15 ◼   ► It in text that is amazing. And that is the magic of like the cost of that feature going down to zero

01:10:21 ◼   ► Handwriting recognition should also get to that stage

01:10:24 ◼   ► eventually people who use the Microsoft products may say it's already there because they have this thing where it will

01:10:28 ◼   ► Let you write in your own little chicken scratch handwriting, but under the cover is translated into text

01:10:33 ◼   ► But leave your chicken scratch there so that it knows what you wrote

01:10:36 ◼   ► So you can full text search for it like that's already happening on the Microsoft side. I

01:10:40 ◼   ► Feel like that is flakier than

01:10:42 ◼   ► Speech to text is on most platforms these days, but it's close. I think we're at the cusp so again

01:10:48 ◼   ► Maybe three revisions from now

01:10:50 ◼   ► the new version of the notes application and

01:10:52 ◼   ► They still gonna call it iOS I got to think of what the new name is gonna be yeah, I guess so

01:10:57 ◼   ► in iOS version

01:11:00 ◼   ► 13 or 14 is like and the new version the notes application lets you write with the the Apple mini pencil

01:11:07 ◼   ► And it will also do full-text search and they'll do a demo of it and it will be like Microsoft did that five years ago

01:11:12 ◼   ► What are you doing Apple, but everyone will love it because it will be all white

01:11:15 ◼   ► So that's another another thing to quickly point out here

01:11:18 ◼   ► You know normally the the people who are not Apple fans people who are really fans of other platforms whether it's Windows or Android or both

01:11:26 ◼   ► Let's face it. Nobody uses Linux anymore

01:11:29 ◼   ► Usually every Apple event there's like a couple of things where those people get really mad about because

01:11:36 ◼   ► Apple you did something that you know they copied someone else or they did something that other people have done before

01:11:40 ◼   ► This maybe this just because there's so many things announced here

01:11:44 ◼   ► But this event seems like there was a higher than normal percentage of those of those things is that but but all of them the Newton

01:11:51 ◼   ► Did first it's like yeah, oh sure Microsoft service did it first right, but who did it first er?

01:11:56 ◼   ► You know and even the Newton it's like well

01:11:58 ◼   ► Then what about the the grid pad like you just keep going back in time everyone's done these things before

01:12:02 ◼   ► We don't care who did it we care who did it best or did it in a way?

01:12:06 ◼   ► that was convincing to people.

01:12:07 ◼   ► We don't know if this is gonna be convincing.

01:12:09 ◼   ► People who use a Surface, as we've heard from them,

01:12:11 ◼   ► love their Surface, but they're not selling a lot of them.

01:12:14 ◼   ► I don't think they're gonna sell

01:12:14 ◼   ► a lot of these Pros either, but I think

01:12:17 ◼   ► because Apple does sell a ton of iOS devices,

01:12:20 ◼   ► and people do wanna use a pencil-like thing

01:12:22 ◼   ► with iOS devices, that Apple has the potential

01:12:25 ◼   ► to sell more of these silly $100,

01:12:28 ◼   ► hopefully that price goes down, pencil things

01:12:30 ◼   ► in the next five years than Microsoft does.

01:12:33 ◼   ► - You know, I agree with you, Marco,

01:12:34 ◼   ► a lot of this felt like everything is a remix. And to build on what John just said, we should

01:12:40 ◼   ► probably talk about pricing and then move on to some of the other stuff in the keynote.

01:12:44 ◼   ► Starting at $800 for 32 gigs, yay, 32 gigs. $950 for 128. And interestingly, the only

01:12:53 ◼   ► option for Wi-Fi plus cellular is the $1,080 128 gig iPad. I thought that somewhat surprising

01:13:03 ◼   ► because for all the other iPads you can get cellular on any size you want but for this if you want cellular you're going whole hog and that's the end of the meeting.

01:13:11 ◼   ► I think I think my iPad 3 was close to $1,000 like all in so like I'm looking at these prices

01:13:17 ◼   ► Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm looking at these prices and thinking you know what for a 13 inch thing with 4

01:13:22 ◼   ► 13 inch iOS device with 4 gigs of RAM

01:13:25 ◼   ► That's not that doesn't seem crazy to me like I feel like I'm getting my money's worth

01:13:29 ◼   ► worth. I'm getting a lot of pixels, I'm getting a lot of power, I'm getting new features that

01:13:33 ◼   ► the other devices don't have and it's quote unquote only a thousand dollars. That starts,

01:13:38 ◼   ► I would rather have this than an iPad, MacBook Air 11 inch. I don't know about you guys.

01:13:45 ◼   ► Yeah I mean it depends. I mean it's, you know like price wise it is expensive. Compa, I

01:13:49 ◼   ► mean you're right like if you decked out an iPad before, if you got the max config before

01:13:54 ◼   ► of the full-sized iPad, it was always $9.29.

01:13:57 ◼   ► But the fact is over time,

01:14:00 ◼   ► I think the average selling price of iPads,

01:14:02 ◼   ► I think has gone down.

01:14:04 ◼   ► I think we even have numbers for that.

01:14:05 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, they've been dropping the price,

01:14:07 ◼   ► but I understand if people offered you,

01:14:10 ◼   ► someone came to your house and said,

01:14:11 ◼   ► "I will either give you a new decked out 11 inch Air

01:14:15 ◼   ► "or a new decked out iPad Pro.

01:14:17 ◼   ► "I know you don't want either one of these devices,

01:14:18 ◼   ► "but which one do you, you're gonna get it for free,

01:14:21 ◼   ► "pick one of them."

01:14:22 ◼   ► Wouldn't you all pick the iPad Pro

01:14:23 ◼   ► just because it's more interesting?

01:14:26 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:14:27 ◼   ► - Probably, but we're not normal.

01:14:29 ◼   ► I don't know, I mean, it's certainly cooler,

01:14:31 ◼   ► it's certainly, and it's certainly more specialized,

01:14:34 ◼   ► and that's the problem.

01:14:35 ◼   ► Like I mentioned last episode of the one before

01:14:37 ◼   ► how I was kind of disappointed that a lot of Apple's products

01:14:41 ◼   ► keep getting more specialized,

01:14:42 ◼   ► and that it used to, the answer to the question

01:14:45 ◼   ► of who is this for, for most of their products,

01:14:47 ◼   ► like five years ago, the answers to that were very broad,

01:14:51 ◼   ► whereas you could use, almost everybody

01:14:53 ◼   ► could use almost any of their computers

01:14:55 ◼   ► for almost any purpose and it would work pretty well.

01:14:58 ◼   ► You know, the definitions were more broad,

01:15:00 ◼   ► whereas now I think we're seeing a lot more specialization

01:15:04 ◼   ► from Apple products and by nature that is exclusionary.

01:15:07 ◼   ► It's not like this is--

01:15:09 ◼   ► - It's not exclusionary though.

01:15:10 ◼   ► It is making more different products

01:15:12 ◼   ► for more different people.

01:15:13 ◼   ► Instead of saying we make three computers

01:15:16 ◼   ► and the entire world is gonna pick

01:15:17 ◼   ► one of our three computers, they're like,

01:15:18 ◼   ► some people don't even want a computer.

01:15:19 ◼   ► Some people want a phone, some people want a small phone,

01:15:21 ◼   ► some people want a big phone,

01:15:22 ◼   ► Some people want a tablet, some people want a small tablet,

01:15:24 ◼   ► some people want a big tablet,

01:15:25 ◼   ► some people want a tablet with a stylus.

01:15:26 ◼   ► So each individual product is more narrowly focused,

01:15:29 ◼   ► you're right, but I think they're covering

01:15:31 ◼   ► more of the spectrum.

01:15:32 ◼   ► This is just, you know, it's the whole,

01:15:34 ◼   ► as the cost of compute drops to zero,

01:15:36 ◼   ► like that becomes less of a factor,

01:15:37 ◼   ► and it's just like, what are the needs of the customers,

01:15:40 ◼   ► and how can we meet them with lots of different products?

01:15:43 ◼   ► Nobody needs all of these products.

01:15:44 ◼   ► It's the same thing with the big phones.

01:15:46 ◼   ► Some people just wanted a big phone.

01:15:47 ◼   ► Some people have a big phone, and they're like,

01:15:49 ◼   ► you know what, I don't need a PC or a laptop.

01:15:51 ◼   ► everything I do is fine on my big phone.

01:15:53 ◼   ► I do all my web browsing on it, I do all my buying,

01:15:55 ◼   ► I do all my things, I watch my Netflix on it,

01:15:57 ◼   ► I don't need a computer anymore.

01:15:59 ◼   ► Does that mean that that phone is for fewer people

01:16:02 ◼   ► than the laptop was?

01:16:03 ◼   ► Yeah, kind of, because if you just sold everyone a PC

01:16:06 ◼   ► and it was this general purpose thing,

01:16:07 ◼   ► you can do everything on a PC,

01:16:09 ◼   ► that will suit everyone's needs,

01:16:11 ◼   ► but some people would rather

01:16:12 ◼   ► just have a really big honking phone.

01:16:14 ◼   ► And so I think this diversification is natural.

01:16:18 ◼   ► Like, are you uncomfortable because you feel like

01:16:21 ◼   ► any individual product now has a narrow range of people

01:16:24 ◼   ► that it appeals to and you still would rather

01:16:26 ◼   ► than make a smaller line of products

01:16:28 ◼   ► that appeal to a wider range of people?

01:16:30 ◼   ► - Well, okay, so stepping back, I think I agree with you.

01:16:34 ◼   ► You're right, this is not exclusionary.

01:16:36 ◼   ► So you're right, having more products

01:16:38 ◼   ► that covers more of the market,

01:16:40 ◼   ► that's a good thing for inclusion.

01:16:42 ◼   ► However, I have two worries here.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Number one, I do worry that Apple is very much a fan

01:16:51 ◼   ► pushing things forward and killing old things or ending support for old things.

01:16:56 ◼   ► And so if I see them launching major products in a direction that is really

01:17:00 ◼   ► at odds with with my own needs, I get worried from from that point of view

01:17:04 ◼   ► that the things that serve my needs are going to be ended at some point in the

01:17:07 ◼   ► future. So anyway besides that though I do think there is a I think they have a

01:17:14 ◼   ► severe problem right now of that their product lines are just really big. There

01:17:19 ◼   ► There are so many different models of everything.

01:17:22 ◼   ► There's so many little and big variations

01:17:25 ◼   ► that you can order with any product line.

01:17:27 ◼   ► There are so many product lines now.

01:17:29 ◼   ► So this has a number of challenges.

01:17:31 ◼   ► One of them obviously is that they are stretching

01:17:33 ◼   ► their resources really thin in a lot of areas,

01:17:35 ◼   ► especially things like engineering and quality.

01:17:38 ◼   ► They stretch these things very, very thin.

01:17:41 ◼   ► They don't have as big of a staff as everyone

01:17:44 ◼   ► would assume a company of that financial resource

01:17:47 ◼   ► would have and they really, I mean,

01:17:50 ◼   ► it seems like they're like waging a war on all fronts

01:17:54 ◼   ► with relatively small resources.

01:17:56 ◼   ► So I'm a little worried about that.

01:17:58 ◼   ► - I think they're being kind of smart with the sharing

01:18:00 ◼   ► because it's kind of like the restaurant

01:18:03 ◼   ► where you realize everything they serve

01:18:04 ◼   ► is a combination of five different ingredients, right?

01:18:07 ◼   ► Even though they have 27 dishes, you're like,

01:18:09 ◼   ► wait a second, this is just ingredient A plus ingredient B

01:18:12 ◼   ► plus ingredient C and different combinations.

01:18:16 ◼   ► I think they're doing a pretty good job of sharing because, I mean, for a long time they

01:18:19 ◼   ► did too much sharing where the iPad really was just iOS and it's a device and it's a

01:18:22 ◼   ► bigger screen.

01:18:23 ◼   ► But like the Core OS, Darwin, the kernel being shared across all their stuff and then up

01:18:28 ◼   ► the stack, Objective-C, Swift.

01:18:31 ◼   ► The fact that they're, you know, the Mac is a little bit of the odd man out at these times

01:18:35 ◼   ► because everything else is kind of like an iOS variant.

01:18:37 ◼   ► And although they're trying to put a brave face on like, you know, tvOS, watchOS and

01:18:42 ◼   ► the inevitable lowercase Mac OS, which will make me sad.

01:18:47 ◼   ► That they're giving it different names, but that's basically the same OS.

01:18:51 ◼   ► They've done a pretty good job of having a core technology stack and a core manufacturing

01:18:57 ◼   ► stack.

01:18:58 ◼   ► We make solid aluminum-backed machined things with lithium ion batteries and screens on

01:19:02 ◼   ► the front and cameras.

01:19:04 ◼   ► It's like, "Wait a second.

01:19:06 ◼   ► All these devices are just different combinations of the same things in different sizes."

01:19:09 ◼   ► even the Macs are kind of, you know,

01:19:11 ◼   ► the Macs were the first ones to be big CNC milled out

01:19:13 ◼   ► blocks of aluminum with lithium ion batteries

01:19:16 ◼   ► and the keyboards and the dome switches are in these like,

01:19:18 ◼   ► in the same keyboard covers and the same keyboard was

01:19:21 ◼   ► on all the laptops and that same keyboard is

01:19:22 ◼   ► on their desktop Macs and like, I think they're being,

01:19:25 ◼   ► like, I think it's how they can get away with this.

01:19:27 ◼   ► A, being the biggest company in the world

01:19:28 ◼   ► and having a million bazillion dollars, right?

01:19:30 ◼   ► And B, being smart about like sort of working on this,

01:19:35 ◼   ► unlike all their services where they don't seem

01:19:37 ◼   ► to work in infrastructure,

01:19:38 ◼   ► They work on infrastructure of like,

01:19:40 ◼   ► can we get really good at machining aluminum

01:19:42 ◼   ► and polishing and finishing it?

01:19:43 ◼   ► If we can do that everywhere, do it on the watch,

01:19:45 ◼   ► do it on the desktops, do it on the tablets,

01:19:47 ◼   ► do it on the phones, do it on the big phones,

01:19:49 ◼   ► like just everywhere, right?

01:19:52 ◼   ► And little cameras and LCD screen technology.

01:19:55 ◼   ► Every time they try to get good at something like that,

01:19:57 ◼   ► it pays dividends across the entire product line.

01:20:00 ◼   ► So I think hardware wise, they're doing well there.

01:20:02 ◼   ► Software wise, you have a point with like the sort of

01:20:05 ◼   ► rushing out to get to a platform,

01:20:08 ◼   ► all the engineers run over here and concentrate on that

01:20:10 ◼   ► and everything else languishes

01:20:11 ◼   ► and gets a little fidgety or whatever.

01:20:13 ◼   ► So I'm hoping El Cap is a return to form

01:20:16 ◼   ► and I hope they learn their lesson

01:20:17 ◼   ► to try to rein things back in.

01:20:19 ◼   ► TV has had a long time to get super crappy

01:20:21 ◼   ► without people paying attention to it.

01:20:22 ◼   ► I'm hoping this is the time when it's like

01:20:25 ◼   ► the stored up, you know, sort of potential energy

01:20:28 ◼   ► from all those years when Apple TV got crappier and crappier

01:20:30 ◼   ► now is going to come.

01:20:31 ◼   ► But it could also be that you're right,

01:20:33 ◼   ► that they overextended themselves in the new Apple TV.

01:20:35 ◼   ► It's super flaky and buggy.

01:20:38 ◼   ► And it's like, we waited all this time for this.

01:20:40 ◼   ► So none of us have a device yet, we can't tell.

01:20:42 ◼   ► But I think some of your fears are founded.

01:20:44 ◼   ► But when I look at their hardware, their product design,

01:20:48 ◼   ► I'm amazed at how much bang they get for their buck

01:20:52 ◼   ► in figuring out these few core things

01:20:55 ◼   ► and combining this small set of ingredients

01:20:57 ◼   ► to make a fairly large variety of products

01:21:01 ◼   ► that I think has the potential to appeal to more people.

01:21:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I guess you can look at it

01:21:07 ◼   ► similarly to like Google is so good at large engineering projects especially

01:21:12 ◼   ► things involving big data and artificial intelligence type things that like you

01:21:17 ◼   ► know Google seems to have incredibly wide bandwidth and throughput of

01:21:21 ◼   ► engineering resources and so they they can solve problems better than almost

01:21:25 ◼   ► anybody else but that are solvable by tons of engineering work whereas Apple

01:21:31 ◼   ► it seems like you know Apple's core competency is in making this these you

01:21:37 ◼   ► the hardware, all these aluminum and glass things.

01:21:39 ◼   ► So Apple can solve challenges in the market

01:21:43 ◼   ► and can be more competitive by throwing massive amounts

01:21:47 ◼   ► of this kind of hardware at it.

01:21:49 ◼   ► So Apple actually can.

01:21:50 ◼   ► - And also the OS, don't you think?

01:21:53 ◼   ► Like the frameworks, they're pretty good at that,

01:21:55 ◼   ► like making sure their software is responsive,

01:21:57 ◼   ► making sure their frameworks are performant,

01:21:59 ◼   ► trying to share frameworks across like AV Foundation,

01:22:03 ◼   ► things across iOS and the Mac,

01:22:05 ◼   ► and those same things are on the phone and on the watch.

01:22:07 ◼   ► Like that is also a good and clever use of resources.

01:22:11 ◼   ► Once you get into the software, you could say,

01:22:12 ◼   ► oh yeah, but their actual applications are crappy,

01:22:14 ◼   ► or yeah, but the people writing code

01:22:17 ◼   ► against those frameworks are doing a bad job.

01:22:18 ◼   ► But I think in general, like compared to Google,

01:22:22 ◼   ► Google took a long time to get Android sort of up to snuff

01:22:25 ◼   ► where Apple started out in terms of prioritizing

01:22:27 ◼   ► responsiveness of the UI and making it look nice

01:22:31 ◼   ► and having a consistent and understandable

01:22:36 ◼   ► interface paradigm and all that other stuff.

01:22:38 ◼   ► So Apple has strengths in that area too.

01:22:40 ◼   ► It's just sort of towards the edges when you get into,

01:22:43 ◼   ► okay, you've got good hardware,

01:22:44 ◼   ► you've got a pretty good platform,

01:22:46 ◼   ► your language and IDE and everything seems pretty solid.

01:22:49 ◼   ► Your frameworks look okay,

01:22:50 ◼   ► except for the first year one of them comes out,

01:22:52 ◼   ► then all the frameworks are crappy.

01:22:53 ◼   ► But the second year, they're all good.

01:22:55 ◼   ► But then what are you writing with?

01:22:56 ◼   ► What applications do you write on top of it?

01:22:58 ◼   ► And then you're like,

01:22:59 ◼   ► well, Apple's apps are kind of crappy

01:23:00 ◼   ► and don't get any better.

01:23:02 ◼   ► And third-party apps aren't allowed

01:23:03 ◼   ► to do interesting things.

01:23:04 ◼   ► And you get into complaints in that realm.

01:23:06 ◼   ► But I think Apple's strengths are pretty broad,

01:23:10 ◼   ► definitely in hardware, I think definitely in OS

01:23:13 ◼   ► and kind of in frameworks, and in applications

01:23:16 ◼   ► is like the edges where things are fraying at this point.

01:23:19 ◼   ► - Our final sponsor this week is Fracture.

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01:23:35 ◼   ► I have a bunch of them around our house here.

01:23:37 ◼   ► I've sent some to friends.

01:23:39 ◼   ► I just recently sent one as a gift.

01:23:40 ◼   ► They are so great.

01:23:42 ◼   ► So basically what it is,

01:23:44 ◼   ► is it's a really, really thin, lightweight piece of glass.

01:23:48 ◼   ► On the back side of it, shining through to the front,

01:23:50 ◼   ► is printed your photo in vivid color right on the glass.

01:23:54 ◼   ► So it looks like your photo is printed on glass,

01:23:56 ◼   ► but it has the nice gloss from the front glass

01:23:58 ◼   ► right in front of it.

01:23:59 ◼   ► So it's really, really nice.

01:24:01 ◼   ► And it's thin and lightweight,

01:24:02 ◼   ► bonded to a little bit of foam board

01:24:04 ◼   ► so you can mount a picture hanging nail in there.

01:24:06 ◼   ► So you don't have to worry,

01:24:08 ◼   ► like I know Gruber was talking on his podcast this week,

01:24:10 ◼   ► I have the same stresses of like,

01:24:12 ◼   ► I don't like hanging large, heavy framed pictures on my wall

01:24:17 ◼   ► 'cause I'm always afraid they're gonna fall off

01:24:18 ◼   ► and tear the wall out and shatter

01:24:20 ◼   ► and make a big hole everywhere and make a big mess.

01:24:22 ◼   ► Fractures are very thin and light

01:24:25 ◼   ► and so I don't have that worry with fractures

01:24:27 ◼   ► and you don't need a frame,

01:24:27 ◼   ► you don't put a frame around these.

01:24:29 ◼   ► They are a finished product.

01:24:30 ◼   ► You get them from fracture and you hang them on your wall.

01:24:33 ◼   ► There's no messing with frames or paying a lot for custom framing.

01:24:37 ◼   ► There's nothing like that.

01:24:38 ◼   ► You just get it.

01:24:39 ◼   ► It's a finished product.

01:24:40 ◼   ► It hangs on the wall.

01:24:41 ◼   ► It prints edge to edge directly on glass and it looks fantastic.

01:24:44 ◼   ► And Jon, you got some fractures, right?

01:24:46 ◼   ► Yeah, my wife had this idea and it was a good one.

01:24:48 ◼   ► I don't have any applications like Marco because Marco's got his app icons on fractures up

01:24:52 ◼   ► on his walls.

01:24:54 ◼   ► But I'm on a bunch of podcasts and so she said, "Podcast artist Square, why don't you

01:24:58 ◼   ► get little fractures of all the podcasts you're on?"

01:25:01 ◼   ► And so I did.

01:25:02 ◼   ► And they're cute.

01:25:03 ◼   ► And I have them up on my wall.

01:25:04 ◼   ► And I have six of them.

01:25:05 ◼   ► Seven of them, actually, because one that Marco and Tiff sent me is a GIF.

01:25:09 ◼   ► It's a picture of us live recording ATP.

01:25:12 ◼   ► So this is, I mean, I guess I'm just buying GIFs for myself.

01:25:16 ◼   ► And I've got pictures of my family on my desk and everything, but the thing you don't think

01:25:19 ◼   ► to do is, you know, like Marco's done, if you have like a work room, put pictures of

01:25:24 ◼   ► your accomplishments up on the wall.

01:25:26 ◼   ► And it's like, I would never do it if I had to like make prints of all these, then go

01:25:30 ◼   ► to a store and buy frames and hang the frames.

01:25:32 ◼   ► The fact that I could just go to a web form,

01:25:33 ◼   ► upload a bunch of pictures, click, click, click,

01:25:36 ◼   ► and know that something would come that I don't need

01:25:37 ◼   ► to frame that's ready to hang on the wall,

01:25:39 ◼   ► that's what made me actually do this,

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01:25:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, fracture, it is so good.

01:25:46 ◼   ► We always get compliments on the fracture prints

01:25:48 ◼   ► we have on our wall.

01:25:49 ◼   ► Anybody who comes into my office always says something,

01:25:51 ◼   ► "Oh, are those the fractures or what are those?

01:25:53 ◼   ► "They look great."

01:25:54 ◼   ► Everyone loves these things.

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01:26:20 ◼   ► I believe they're four by three or three by three by two,

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01:26:44 ◼   ► - All right, so the Apple TV is new,

01:26:48 ◼   ► and it's called Apple TV.

01:26:50 ◼   ► - It's called the new Apple TV.

01:26:52 ◼   ► It's like an iPad 3 move, this is just the new one.

01:26:55 ◼   ► And then next year, they will retcon this one,

01:26:58 ◼   ► the Apple TV for and they'll make a new, new Apple TV.

01:27:02 ◼   ► - They were always just called Apple TV, right?

01:27:04 ◼   ► Like the numbers, we knew the numbers internally

01:27:07 ◼   ► but there was never in the branding, I think.

01:27:09 ◼   ► - Well, it never mattered before.

01:27:10 ◼   ► Now that it's an app platform, it will start to matter.

01:27:13 ◼   ► I think now the specs will matter more,

01:27:16 ◼   ► people will know the specs more,

01:27:18 ◼   ► they will advertise the specs more

01:27:20 ◼   ► and when new generations come out,

01:27:22 ◼   ► they will push what is new about them

01:27:23 ◼   ► and they will give them, I think,

01:27:25 ◼   ► numbered names of some kind.

01:27:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, we'll see.

01:27:28 ◼   ► So this thing has an A8, it has, as far as we know,

01:27:31 ◼   ► two gigs of RAM, 32 or 64 gig storage,

01:27:35 ◼   ► and it has this new fancy remote

01:27:37 ◼   ► that has like a little mini touch pad on it

01:27:39 ◼   ► and is also a Wiimote all in one.

01:27:41 ◼   ► - Can we just complain for a second

01:27:42 ◼   ► about no gigabit ethernet?

01:27:44 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Seriously?

01:27:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, what year is this?

01:27:46 ◼   ► - Like it's so tall, there's so much room in there.

01:27:49 ◼   ► 10, 100, 'cause then you're like,

01:27:51 ◼   ► oh, I gotta make sure I don't hook it up to a hub or a switch

01:27:55 ◼   ► that downgrades everything.

01:27:56 ◼   ► I know video is never gonna be 100 megabits anyway.

01:27:58 ◼   ► It's the principle of things.

01:27:59 ◼   ► Like they did the whole alphabet soup of wifi

01:28:03 ◼   ► and they gave it reasonable storage.

01:28:05 ◼   ► There's no 16 gig model.

01:28:06 ◼   ► It starts at 32, unlike some other products

01:28:08 ◼   ► we might mention later.

01:28:09 ◼   ► You know, two gigs of RAM, A8, looks great.

01:28:13 ◼   ► 10, 100, is there anything?

01:28:16 ◼   ► Like I hope like people stop supporting 10, 100.

01:28:18 ◼   ► So Apple will be forced.

01:28:19 ◼   ► Anyway, fine, right?

01:28:22 ◼   ► It's better, it's taller.

01:28:24 ◼   ► That's good.

01:28:26 ◼   ► Yeah, anyway, so yeah, the remote,

01:28:29 ◼   ► I think we can talk a lot about this remote.

01:28:31 ◼   ► First of all, upsides, I am very happy to see

01:28:35 ◼   ► both RF instead of IR, so you don't need line of sight,

01:28:39 ◼   ► you don't need to keep the box out

01:28:40 ◼   ► and make sure the IR gets there.

01:28:42 ◼   ► - Finally, as they say.

01:28:43 ◼   ► - Exactly, and I'm very glad to see

01:28:46 ◼   ► some kind of universal remote capability.

01:28:48 ◼   ► I'm not sure, does that work through HDMI signaling

01:28:50 ◼   ► or something, or is there--

01:28:50 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah.

01:28:51 ◼   ► - The existing Apple TV has this.

01:28:52 ◼   ► I'm assuming it's just the same feature.

01:28:55 ◼   ► This thing Apple TV does in the other direction,

01:28:56 ◼   ► where you can use any remote you want with your Apple TV,

01:29:01 ◼   ► like the previous generation.

01:29:02 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I do.

01:29:03 ◼   ► - This is, you can use this remote,

01:29:05 ◼   ► it's exactly the same functionality,

01:29:07 ◼   ► but the reverse, where you can have this thing

01:29:10 ◼   ► control your other devices by training it to say,

01:29:13 ◼   ► it's got, basically it's got an IR thing,

01:29:14 ◼   ► it's gotta have an IR thing in it,

01:29:15 ◼   ► that basically like--

01:29:16 ◼   ► - No, no, no, yeah, I think you guys are all wrong on this.

01:29:18 ◼   ► So my understanding of the way this works is,

01:29:20 ◼   ► it's a Bluetooth, it's a Bluetooth remote,

01:29:24 ◼   ► And then using some protocol,

01:29:27 ◼   ► shoot, I took a note on this, let me stall the time.

01:29:29 ◼   ► - CDC thing, is that how it controls your volume?

01:29:31 ◼   ► Oh, please don't let that be true.

01:29:32 ◼   ► - Yes, no, they mentioned it.

01:29:35 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, Schiller said CDC to control--

01:29:38 ◼   ► - I know it has a CDC to control the other stuff,

01:29:40 ◼   ► to turn, change your input or whatever

01:29:42 ◼   ► and all that other stuff.

01:29:43 ◼   ► So--

01:29:44 ◼   ► - Tifter says it has IR for the volume up down.

01:29:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

01:29:47 ◼   ► It's gotta be for the volume, all right?

01:29:49 ◼   ► So that's just gotta be.

01:29:50 ◼   ► But all right, so that's a separate thing.

01:29:52 ◼   ► It's a learning remote, you can teach it

01:29:54 ◼   ► what does your TV expect you to spray out at an IR

01:29:56 ◼   ► to make the volume go up and down.

01:29:58 ◼   ► For everything else that they mentioned,

01:30:00 ◼   ► like oh, it can change your input on your thing to this,

01:30:02 ◼   ► and it can control your other devices

01:30:04 ◼   ► and make sure your TV is turned on,

01:30:05 ◼   ► it's using CEC, which is some HDMI standard,

01:30:08 ◼   ► which is a piece of crap.

01:30:09 ◼   ► I don't know if the standard is a piece of crap,

01:30:11 ◼   ► or every single product in the entire universe

01:30:13 ◼   ► that implements the standard is a piece of crap,

01:30:15 ◼   ► it doesn't matter.

01:30:16 ◼   ► - Well, you said HDMI, that implies all of that.

01:30:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly, right?

01:30:20 ◼   ► And so, oh, it is so bad, all right?

01:30:22 ◼   ► So this comes under a million different names.

01:30:24 ◼   ► If you buy Panasonic stuff, it's called like VeraCast.

01:30:27 ◼   ► You buy Samsung, it's a different name.

01:30:29 ◼   ► This is all the same standard.

01:30:31 ◼   ► And I don't know, again, I don't know who to blame for it,

01:30:34 ◼   ► but I tweeted about it and a million people were like,

01:30:37 ◼   ► "I have this on my Sony television hooked up

01:30:39 ◼   ► "on a Sony receiver with my Sony remote

01:30:41 ◼   ► "and it's still nothing works.

01:30:42 ◼   ► "I've got a mix stack here with Panasonic

01:30:45 ◼   ► "and I figured my Yamaha receiver or whatever."

01:30:49 ◼   ► Here's the thing about CEC.

01:30:51 ◼   ► It almost works.

01:30:52 ◼   ► You hook it all up and you're like,

01:30:54 ◼   ► hey, this is great, all these different manufacturers

01:30:56 ◼   ► who, you know, they're cooperating on this standard

01:30:58 ◼   ► and I can hit this thing and it will do all this stuff

01:31:00 ◼   ► or whatever, but then it stops working.

01:31:02 ◼   ► And then you don't know why, and then everything freezes.

01:31:04 ◼   ► Like one person said, I had a brownout once

01:31:06 ◼   ► and CEC has never worked again.

01:31:07 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:31:10 ◼   ► It's inexplicable, it's like SCSI termination.

01:31:12 ◼   ► For the really old people,

01:31:13 ◼   ► terminating SCSI chains, that black magic,

01:31:16 ◼   ► that's what CEC is like, but worse,

01:31:17 ◼   ► because it's with your TV that you just expect to work.

01:31:19 ◼   ► So, I played with this stuff extensively

01:31:22 ◼   ► when I redid my computer, my television setup twice.

01:31:25 ◼   ► I tried it, I tried it once, and I said,

01:31:27 ◼   ► maybe it's not ready, I tried it several years later.

01:31:29 ◼   ► I got it all working, but there were just enough flakiness

01:31:32 ◼   ► and just enough failure weight, the solution.

01:31:34 ◼   ► If you're dealing with anything with CEC,

01:31:36 ◼   ► if you have a television receiver or anything,

01:31:38 ◼   ► you will make your life better.

01:31:40 ◼   ► Turn that off on every single one of your devices.

01:31:42 ◼   ► Don't leave a single one with CEC enabled,

01:31:44 ◼   ► 'cause it will screw up everything.

01:31:45 ◼   ► Just turn it off everywhere.

01:31:46 ◼   ► Turn it off on your receiver, turn it off on your TV,

01:31:48 ◼   ► turn off in your remote, turn off in your Blu-ray player,

01:31:50 ◼   ► turn off everywhere, turn off on your game console,

01:31:53 ◼   ► then you will have a slightly more annoying system,

01:31:55 ◼   ► but you got to turn different things on,

01:31:56 ◼   ► but everything will actually work.

01:31:58 ◼   ► So what does CDC stand for?

01:32:00 ◼   ► - CEC, it's like--

01:32:01 ◼   ► - Oh, CEC.

01:32:03 ◼   ► - CEC, yeah. - Oh, oh, oh, oh.

01:32:04 ◼   ► - It never goes by that name,

01:32:05 ◼   ► 'cause every manufacturer has a different name for it.

01:32:07 ◼   ► It's supposed to let your other devices talk to each other,

01:32:09 ◼   ► that when I had pressed this one button,

01:32:11 ◼   ► that it knows to turn the receiver on and change to input two

01:32:13 ◼   ► and turn the television on and turn the volume to this

01:32:15 ◼   ► and do it like, it's supposed to be

01:32:17 ◼   ► so they can all communicate with each other.

01:32:18 ◼   ► And it almost works, it almost does,

01:32:21 ◼   ► but it is just so incredibly frustrating

01:32:24 ◼   ► that it just, seriously.

01:32:25 ◼   ► So I guess it's nice that Apple includes this.

01:32:28 ◼   ► There's a chance it could work fine for you.

01:32:30 ◼   ► That chance seems slim.

01:32:32 ◼   ► It seems really slim.

01:32:33 ◼   ► Like I would encourage people who,

01:32:35 ◼   ► I know I'm asking for feedback,

01:32:36 ◼   ► like if you have a television setup

01:32:39 ◼   ► with a bunch of CEC enabled devices,

01:32:41 ◼   ► and it just works all the time and there are any problems,

01:32:43 ◼   ► I've heard from zero of those people.

01:32:44 ◼   ► So I'm asking, if that happened to you,

01:32:48 ◼   ► send us an email or a tweet and say,

01:32:50 ◼   ► I use CEC, I've been using it for years,

01:32:53 ◼   ► and I never have a problem with it.

01:32:54 ◼   ► I don't think we'll get any emails, but who knows?

01:32:57 ◼   ► I didn't think there were many

01:32:57 ◼   ► tap-to-click wizards out there.

01:32:59 ◼   ► All I know is when I mentioned it on Twitter,

01:33:03 ◼   ► all I got were replies from people,

01:33:04 ◼   ► I said, "CEC is the devil," and everyone's like,

01:33:06 ◼   ► "Yes, it is the devil."

01:33:08 ◼   ► And they just had horror stories about it.

01:33:09 ◼   ► So that's not to say that Apple shouldn't have included it.

01:33:12 ◼   ► It's fine, go ahead and include it.

01:33:14 ◼   ► But if you have grand plans that you think

01:33:16 ◼   ► this is gonna save you, this is not an Apple technology.

01:33:18 ◼   ► This is a quote unquote industry standard technology

01:33:20 ◼   ► and it's a piece of crap.

01:33:22 ◼   ► - Real time follow up, I apologize to the both of you.

01:33:25 ◼   ► There is an IR transmitter on the remote

01:33:28 ◼   ► as per the spec page on Apple's website.

01:33:32 ◼   ► I'm still not clear if it's a learning transmitter or not.

01:33:34 ◼   ► - It is, the volume will work.

01:33:36 ◼   ► That part will totally work for you.

01:33:38 ◼   ► If you're buying this and you expect to use

01:33:40 ◼   ► the volume control, that will work on your TV.

01:33:42 ◼   ► - That's honestly all I want

01:33:43 ◼   ► 'cause that's the only reason I had any of the remotes out

01:33:45 ◼   ► was, although turning the TV on and off

01:33:47 ◼   ► would be another thing, but is that what CEC

01:33:50 ◼   ► is supposed to do?

01:33:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, and even for that, just don't use it.

01:33:53 ◼   ► - Okay, I won't, don't worry.

01:33:54 ◼   ► - Use a separate thing to turn it, it's fine.

01:33:56 ◼   ► You will survive.

01:33:57 ◼   ► - I guarantee you, my TV is too old to support it.