121: Admitted No Wrongdoing
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I do. I steal all the tissues out of the hotel room and then have to make sure they refill those boxes.
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Sometimes they don't.
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We're live. We are in person in my hotel room with a whole bunch of equipment and wires everywhere.
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Recording this on a proper three-track recorder with three microphones.
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And one is clipped to a table. Mine is clipped to a suitcase stand.
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And Jon's is clipped to a pole lamp.
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And we are making this work. Yeah. So big day, huh?
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Huge week. It's odd looking at you guys. We do this every year, but it's odd looking at you guys while we're doing the show.
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Do you have a little note thing normally when we record? Or is that just for today?
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No, this is just, so I'm holding a field notes and I have, so the comedy behind this is, I wrote some notes in my field notes, but I can't read them because my handwriting is crap in general, but my handwriting is unintelligible when I'm writing in a dark room, like, without having a surface to write upon.
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- You should have tapped them out
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on your little iOS device.
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I don't know why you're writing in this Field Notes notebook
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that's shaped like your butt.
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- So I know, I'll have to paint you a word picture.
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So the Field Notes is concave, convex,
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I always get it backwards, anyway, it's bent.
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- Depends on which way you hold it.
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- Yeah, I guess that's true.
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So it's bent because it always resides
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in my back left pocket.
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It is crinkly as all anything.
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And so, yeah, so I didn't take copious notes.
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I don't know, how do you wanna start this?
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I mean, the morning was--
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Are you actually, are we now learning, because I have notes, are we learning that I took
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the best notes of the three of us?
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You know I wasn't taking notes, I'm on vacation.
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You're on vacation in California?
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Exactly, yeah, no I didn't take notes, but if I just saw like the agenda, like if you
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just have the agenda, the keynote, we'll just go through it chronologically and assume that
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we will actually finish with the agenda. Marco can keep an eye on the time and how far we're
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through the agenda and if we spend 45 minutes on the first item, we'll know that we have
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to move along.
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- Although, are we just going through the keynote,
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or are we also going through the State of the Union?
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- I don't know.
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Knowing us, we'll barely make it through half the keynote.
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And the keynote was about seven hours long,
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so there's that.
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- Yeah, and I wanna say, like,
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we've done these recordings before,
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and for people who haven't listened to them,
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I think the thing to remember is that we spent the day
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standing in lines, attending the keynote.
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By the way, I'm actually at WWDC,
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in case you were wondering.
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- And then the state of the union.
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We haven't had time to look up everything
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on all the websites or digest it all or whatever.
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So the main thing we're bringing to this
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as people who are actually here,
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bringing to the people who aren't here,
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is that we were in the room and we could see the reactions
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and we are sort of giving first impressions.
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So inevitably we will get things wrong.
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Like just before we started recording,
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I was asking, I wish I could see a particular slide
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because I have some memory of something being on that slide
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but I'm not entirely sure.
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So if we make mistakes, please forgive us
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but we're trying to give you the on-the-scene sort of flavor
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of WWDC, not so much a comprehensive, no factual errors,
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complete coverage of everything that was announced today.
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- Because clearly that's what we do,
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is a podcast that has no factual errors ever.
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And so this is an exciting-- - What a section.
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- The weird thing is if you are here,
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you actually probably know less about the announcements
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than if you're not here,
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because you're too busy being there for the things.
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- Right, yeah, like Jason Stell talked about that
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in Upgrade last week about how when you are covering
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event you don't have time the way everyone else does at home to go through all the websites
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and documentation right after they're released and everything. So we actually have had, yeah
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you're right, we've had less time to go over this than a lot of people have. So we're making
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a podcast about it.
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But we have the things that they don't have is that we get to, and this is a thing people
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don't know too, when they release the videos of this, they edit them. They cut out parts,
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they cut out audience noise, they cut out flubs, sometimes they're even edited for content
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like when that guy typed the wrong thing into the, whatever that was, like, what was that?
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I don't remember. Oh, that was Siri? Did you talk about it during the music or? No, like
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in the old thing that he was trying to say, "It's Road Trip." Oh, you were talking about
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last year. He was trying to say "Utah Road Trip" or something, but it almost... Oh, he
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put up the wrong song. Like, that one with the S-something. The Siri thing, yeah. But
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anyway, being here live, that's what you get. And sometimes that's significant and sometimes
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it's not, but that's what we've got to offer you. Right. Lucky you. Hooray! Well, let's
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start, how about we do just a general overall feeling about the entire keynote.
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Let's leave aside the State of the Union for now. So just the keynote in general,
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how did everyone feel? I'll start off, the first half to two-thirds I thought was
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excellent. There was a lot of enthusiasm. Some of the things that I think the room
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found more enthusiastic I was a little, I was slightly surprised by. The room got
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really amped up about an announcement with regard to Swift, which we'll talk
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about later, but in general I thought it was very good. It wasn't quite the
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fast-paced holy crap that was last year in my personal opinion last year I felt
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like my hair was getting blown back everything there was so much so fast
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this year wasn't that the last third however basically once once Apple music
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started things took a turn and we'll talk about that as well but I don't know
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Marco what did you think about the whole thing I thought it was great I mean you
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know if we just if we consider the first you know three-quarters or whatever like
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like the first part before Apple Music,
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if Tim Cook would have ended,
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and instead of saying one more thing,
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said, "Thanks, well this'll be a great week,
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"we'll see what you guys can do with this, thanks a lot,"
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and that was the end of it.
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I think it would have been a very different
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overall reaction, and until that point, really,
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I think the momentum was very good.
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So, they ran through a lot of stuff.
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They ran through iOS 9, OS 10, L, is it El Capitan?
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Is that how you say that?
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El Capitan? - I believe that's right.
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- We're gonna have to learn that.
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- I guess LCAP, is that an acceptable,
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well I'm sure Stephen Hackett's gonna be furious about this,
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but I will probably call it LCAP.
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- I've heard California people call it LCAP,
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so I think that's okay, but you never know
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with California people.
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Maybe they can say it, but we can't, I don't know.
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- Right, like isn't Cali unacceptable if you're not--
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- And don't forget Frisco, yep, we're here in Frisco.
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- We're here in Frisco Cali.
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Oh God, so many people are so angry right now.
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- Welcome to Frisco, don't touch anything.
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So I think, you know, starting,
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if you start at the beginning, you know, going through it,
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first of all, I would say, I took a note of this too,
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like the reactions that people had to both Tim Cook
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and then to especially Craig Federighi,
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these were like roaring cheers,
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like more than I've heard since Steve Jobs at these events.
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Like people are really pleased with these execs.
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It was just very, just positive,
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very positive overall for them.
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I think, you know, so moving into what they announced,
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I mean, so first of all, I thought the opening film
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was kind of funny.
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I heard a lot of people on Twitter were like,
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"Oh, this is lame."
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I thought it was cute.
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I didn't think it was bad.
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- Yeah, I think it played well in the room.
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Like of all their opening videos they do
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that are supposed to be funny, they're hit or miss.
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You know, it doesn't really matter.
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But I thought this one was mostly hit
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and I didn't hear a lot of groaning from the room.
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- At that point.
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- Yeah, I mean, the worst thing you could say
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about the opening video is that it didn't seem
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particularly relevant, which you can kind of imagine
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has to be that way, 'cause if you're gonna get
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a bunch of celebrities and someone to produce
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this video for you and everything, you can't,
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like what if they had filmed a whole bunch of stuff
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about the new Apple TV, or teases about the new Apple TV
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and then they had to can it, so the opening joke
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can't be about anything that announced,
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but then you're like, well why is it even here?
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Is it just wasting time?
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Is it trying to entertain me?
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The only thing I would really ding the opening video on
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is making a joke about Objective C and not mentioning Swift.
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- No, I thought it was good, 'cause what was it,
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Bill Hader, Bill Heater, I forget how you say it.
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- Yeah, that was that Saturday Night Live guy.
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- Yeah, and he's awesome.
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And so I thought as a cheesy and campy opening video,
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it was about as delightful a cheesy and campy opening video
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as one could really hope for.
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So I give that two thumbs up.
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I thought it was fine.
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- Yeah, and so I think you can look in the room
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and you can say, you're right, playing to that room,
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It was lighthearted.
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They know they're not gonna get comedy awards
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or the things they produce or anything,
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but it was lighthearted and it was nice, it was pleasant,
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parts of it were very funny, I thought, and it was fine.
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And they usually open up with jokey videos.
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There was that Siri video a few years ago and stuff like that.
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That's not new, to open up with a jokey video,
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so that's fine.
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- And this referenced third-party apps.
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You had the little crows from Monument Valley in there,
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you got Angry Birds, of course.
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- There was a lot in there.
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- So if you're playing through a room full of developers,
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referencing a bunch of third-party apps is a good bet.
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So, let's see, the first thing I have here.
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- Put your laptop in front of you so you can stay on mic.
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- Yeah, I know, right?
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So they went over OS X first.
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And so, man, I wish we had somebody in the room
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who was an OS X expert.
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- Like I tweeted, OS X still gets top billing,
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which isn't really true because the last spot's the good one.
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But anyway, as I said, just let me have this one.
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OS X top billing.
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That keynote was so long--
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I'm not going to say it had so much stuff in it,
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but it was so long that now I'm thinking back,
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what did they announce for OS X?
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Well, it got its own name.
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And it's not Snow Yosemite or Snow-sem-ity.
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Like, you think, oh, who cares what its name is.
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But that is a signal that Apple has used in the past
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to indicate an OS release that is merely the previous OS
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release but kind of cleaned up a little bit. You had Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion and
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those were all modifiers of Leopard and Lion and that sends a clear signal about the intention
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of the OS. This one does El Capitan which is kind of a modified version of Yosemite
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because it's a thing that's in Yosemite but it's still trying to stand on its own. The
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thing that struck me about it is, and I'm still looking at it from a reviewist's perspective,
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I'm like, man, the screenshots are going to look exactly the same this year as they did
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last year because last year was the big overhaul of how everything looks and this year I don't
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was there anything to look different? The font's different. Yeah other than the font
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but I. That's kind of big. It's only big to people who care about fonts. I can tell you
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that vanishingly small number of people can even notice in like a test is this Helvetica
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or you know charcoal or SB Sans or Chicago, well maybe they can tell Chicago but yeah
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It is a new font, but other than that, I don't think there's even any new controls or effects
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or widgets or anything like that.
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This is going to look very similar in the reviews, and everything they concentrated
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on were a few underpinning text and a bunch of new features for apps.
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It did not look like a big OS release.
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The other thing that struck me, since this was their first announcement, is that you're
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going to show us this new OS.
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It's going to have a whole bunch of stuff in it that is kind of like, "Well, it's like
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Yosemite but a couple things are better or improved or whatever. They did not emphasize
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the idea that we're taking this year to sort of make things perform better and make more
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stable. They did not hammer that at all. They merely just didn't say anything. They just
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said this is, you know, OS X El Capitan, here's what it has in it, and these things that it
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has is great, and moving on. They did not emphasize where, like they did, they hit it
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It was no, to say zero new features, we're really going to try to buckle down this time
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and concentrate on the core OS.
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I think they are doing that, but they didn't say that in the messaging.
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That I think would be a theme throughout, because a lot of the announcements in this
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keynote were like that, but it was unspoken.
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In the past show I said, "Hey, they can get lots of applause lines by saying that."
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They didn't go for them.
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They didn't go for that type of line.
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They just sort of went with the positives and didn't put it in the context of, "We know
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that iOS 8 and Yosemite were big releases and there are a bunch of bugs that you wish
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we would fix."
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>> I disagree.
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I think they did.
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I mean, so the way Federighi introduced it, he said there were like, you know, like these
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handful of headlining features.
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There was spotlight enhancements, some things to the built-in apps, window management, and
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performance.
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And then, and metal was part of performance.
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>> But performance is not a big Yosemite.
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But here, I put it in legal terms.
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- They admitted no wrongdoing.
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- That's true, that's true.
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- They did a settlement and they say,
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but of course Apple admits no wrongdoing.
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- That's fair.
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Well, but, first of all, I think that's very heavily implied
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by the clear slowdown in headlining marketable features
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of these two OSs.
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But also, I think, even with Snow Leopard,
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they didn't say, man, Leopard was a piece of crap.
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We're fixing it.
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They said we're working on making things better
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under the hood faster.
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- They said they were regrouping.
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They had to say, "Why are we making a thing
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"with no new features?"
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Because it's like a regrouping or rebuilding year.
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That is what we're doing with this endeavor.
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They didn't feel the need to excuse anything
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about El Capitan.
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They didn't feel the need to explain
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why it didn't have as many new features to demo as Yosemite,
00:12:58
◼
►
or why the features were less dramatic.
00:13:00
◼
►
At no point did they put it in the context
00:13:01
◼
►
of past releases, characterizing this release
00:13:03
◼
►
as small or less significant in any way.
00:13:07
◼
►
And I think that's fine.
00:13:09
◼
►
it's a perfectly valid way to go,
00:13:10
◼
►
I just thought they would have gone for it
00:13:12
◼
►
to get sort of the credit for what it is they're doing.
00:13:15
◼
►
And it seems like, it's not like a power,
00:13:17
◼
►
like I don't think they want it to embarrass themselves.
00:13:20
◼
►
Not that you're gonna say your previous OS
00:13:21
◼
►
was a piece of crap, but to put this new release in context
00:13:25
◼
►
and say this release is a smaller release
00:13:27
◼
►
than our previous one, and that is a conscious choice,
00:13:30
◼
►
and it's good for consumers because of X, Y, and Z.
00:13:33
◼
►
They didn't say that.
00:13:34
◼
►
- Yeah, that's true.
00:13:35
◼
►
What do you think of the name?
00:13:36
◼
►
Because I don't dig it.
00:13:38
◼
►
I don't think I really like the California themed names at all because they don't mean anything to me.
00:13:45
◼
►
Like I can get behind Tiger and Leopard and even Snow Leopard.
00:13:48
◼
►
And granted, there aren't snow leopards running around Virginia, but I mean everyone can associate, can understand and appreciate animals.
00:13:54
◼
►
Whereas these, to me, kind of esoteric places in California, they just carry no weight to me.
00:14:01
◼
►
Like John, I'm especially curious to hear you.
00:14:03
◼
►
I like that naming theme because I think there are so many options.
00:14:06
◼
►
And I like this name admittedly because it was the name of the tower case.
00:14:09
◼
►
I believe it was the name of the entire tower case design that the Power Mac G3 and G4 came
00:14:15
◼
►
This was the name of that thing.
00:14:18
◼
►
But they sound cool.
00:14:20
◼
►
With the exception of Mavericks, two out of three so far have been names that people know
00:14:23
◼
►
throughout the whole country.
00:14:25
◼
►
People know what Yosemite is and I think people know what this is, even if they didn't know
00:14:27
◼
►
about the case code names.
00:14:30
◼
►
And that's kind of what a name has to be.
00:14:31
◼
►
It's just a filler marketing name.
00:14:33
◼
►
It's better than a number. It's better than the name of a wine. It's less highfalutin
00:14:40
◼
►
than whatever. I don't even know what the wine name for this one is. Someone could look
00:14:43
◼
►
it up on the rumor sites. So I don't mind it. And the OS itself, the things they changed
00:14:49
◼
►
are all like, "Yeah, that was kind of silly that that was limited that way." And, "Oh,
00:14:53
◼
►
that does look like a cool feature, but I don't care because I don't use that app."
00:14:57
◼
►
So all the things they didn't talk about, like if you have Discovery-D problems and
00:15:00
◼
►
and this solves them, that will be worth the hassle of upgrading alone. But they didn't
00:15:04
◼
►
talk about that at all because they would have to put that in context and sort of admit
00:15:08
◼
►
wrongdoing there.
00:15:09
◼
►
>> Right, right. I don't know, what else did they talk about for OS X? I kind of blanked
00:15:15
◼
►
in terms of my notes on what happened. There was the--
00:15:17
◼
►
>> Well, there was the window management stuff, the new like kind of like split screen enhancements
00:15:20
◼
►
to mission control and stuff like that. I mean, and that's all, I think, fairly lightweight,
00:15:24
◼
►
but it's nice.
00:15:25
◼
►
>> Well, the window management I think is interesting to me from the perspective, from
00:15:30
◼
►
From my perspective, how I manage Windows,
00:15:33
◼
►
and Windows itself, Microsoft Windows,
00:15:36
◼
►
has done this thing,
00:15:38
◼
►
they sort of dragged the window to the side
00:15:39
◼
►
and have it fill the half screen or whatever,
00:15:41
◼
►
and of course Linux window managers
00:15:42
◼
►
have been doing this for ages as well.
00:15:45
◼
►
Marco, are you okay?
00:15:46
◼
►
Are you dying over there?
00:15:47
◼
►
- All right.
00:15:48
◼
►
- Yeah, you can't just get away with it now
00:15:50
◼
►
'cause we're all in the same room.
00:15:51
◼
►
- But the whole idea of a tiling window manager
00:15:55
◼
►
is the opposite of how I manage Windows.
00:15:57
◼
►
I manage windows with overlapping windows.
00:16:01
◼
►
The way that Mac window management
00:16:02
◼
►
has been done since the dawn of the Mac, windows overlap.
00:16:05
◼
►
And even when I even use the same vocabulary,
00:16:07
◼
►
I'm like, oh, I tile my windows.
00:16:09
◼
►
But what tile means is what they were showing,
00:16:12
◼
►
where the windows don't overlap.
00:16:13
◼
►
And you divide the screen into fourths or thirds or whatever,
00:16:16
◼
►
vertically, horizontally.
00:16:17
◼
►
And the windows don't overlap.
00:16:19
◼
►
And when I say tile, it's probably the wrong word.
00:16:21
◼
►
I mean that they overlap and are staggered one after the other.
00:16:27
◼
►
So I think for people who want to,
00:16:29
◼
►
people who are stuck in full screen mode,
00:16:31
◼
►
this may help shake them out of it and say,
00:16:32
◼
►
"Hey, you've got this big giant screen,
00:16:33
◼
►
"don't make your text editor window
00:16:35
◼
►
"fill your entire 24 inch screen
00:16:36
◼
►
"because you're not gonna write lines
00:16:37
◼
►
"that are 700 characters long."
00:16:39
◼
►
Maybe, I don't know, split your screen vertically
00:16:42
◼
►
and have two things.
00:16:44
◼
►
It'll help people along who are addicted
00:16:48
◼
►
to full screen apps, even on giant monitors,
00:16:50
◼
►
and maybe on small monitors it'll give them a chance,
00:16:51
◼
►
and there's a nice symmetry with iOS 9's features
00:16:53
◼
►
that we'll talk about later.
00:16:55
◼
►
But from my perspective, this is window management
00:16:58
◼
►
that is not even up to the complexity of third-party Mac
00:17:02
◼
►
apps that have been around for ages, like Divi and Moom.
00:17:05
◼
►
Moom, as it's called.
00:17:05
◼
►
There's a bunch of other ones that are like that.
00:17:07
◼
►
I just don't have interest in these things.
00:17:08
◼
►
So these features of El Capitan don't interest me.
00:17:11
◼
►
But I think it's good that they're there to sort of be
00:17:14
◼
►
like training wheels for people who aren't very good at window
00:17:17
◼
►
management, to say, here are some more options.
00:17:20
◼
►
And they're built into the OS, and you don't have to install
00:17:22
◼
►
a scary third-party app.
00:17:23
◼
►
And maybe they will help you feel comfortable with Windows
00:17:26
◼
►
in a way that you don't currently feel comfortable.
00:17:28
◼
►
Yeah, that's fair.
00:17:30
◼
►
Was it during the OS X portion that they
00:17:33
◼
►
announced that core animation is moving to Metal instead
00:17:36
◼
►
Well, they announced that Metal was coming to OS X.
00:17:38
◼
►
And there's a lot of announcements this year
00:17:39
◼
►
like, yeah, we all figured that from last year.
00:17:41
◼
►
Like, it announced Metal, and it's iOS only.
00:17:44
◼
►
And it's like, why is it iOS only?
00:17:45
◼
►
The only reason you can think of is
00:17:47
◼
►
because they have limited resources and time,
00:17:48
◼
►
and iOS is more important, and it will come to the Mac
00:17:52
◼
►
and they put their stuff on top of it, and it's good.
00:17:54
◼
►
You know, thumbs up, like.
00:17:55
◼
►
And Craig Fader, where you threw up the horns.
00:17:59
◼
►
- Well of course.
00:18:00
◼
►
- Briefly, I'm pretty sure.
00:18:01
◼
►
Marco needs to see what the horns are.
00:18:02
◼
►
These are the horns, Marco.
00:18:04
◼
►
- Is that a reference?
00:18:05
◼
►
- Mess with the bull, you get the horns, okay?
00:18:08
◼
►
Neither one of you get that, do you?
00:18:10
◼
►
- No, I know that's a reference.
00:18:12
◼
►
I don't know from where.
00:18:13
◼
►
You should see--
00:18:14
◼
►
- Chat room is silently shaming you.
00:18:15
◼
►
You can't see it from the top of me.
00:18:16
◼
►
- You should see.
00:18:17
◼
►
This is different now, because I can see the disdain.
00:18:20
◼
►
- The disgust, yeah, you can see it.
00:18:21
◼
►
absolute disgust on John's face. Typically I'm behind a monitor, and we don't do video
00:18:26
◼
►
when we record, so I don't get to see how unbelievably upset and frustrated John is.
00:18:33
◼
►
But this time I did.
00:18:34
◼
►
I think he threw up the horns again. I don't have the video to look at.
00:18:37
◼
►
I thought he had as well. That's alright. What else happened to Noah Stendate? You know,
00:18:41
◼
►
they didn't do, it just occurred to me, they didn't do Control Center, right? Or did I
00:18:44
◼
►
totally miss that?
00:18:45
◼
►
Control Center.
00:18:46
◼
►
They were talking about doing the same thing where you swipe up from the bottom on iOS
00:18:50
◼
►
whether you were gonna swipe from the left
00:18:52
◼
►
on a notification center type thing, but the other side.
00:18:54
◼
►
- Right, right.
00:18:55
◼
►
That was a pretty solid rumor, I thought, up until--
00:18:57
◼
►
- I think Mark Erman was wrong about that.
00:18:59
◼
►
- Well, or maybe we just don't know it yet,
00:19:00
◼
►
but I-- - It could still be there.
00:19:02
◼
►
That type of stuff, but maybe it gets cut.
00:19:03
◼
►
- I think they would've showed that off.
00:19:04
◼
►
- I think so, too.
00:19:06
◼
►
- I'm kinda glad it's not there, honestly.
00:19:07
◼
►
Like, when I heard these rumors,
00:19:08
◼
►
I was not looking forward to that, honestly.
00:19:10
◼
►
- Gonna save something for next year.
00:19:12
◼
►
- Yeah, exactly.
00:19:13
◼
►
All right, so before we move on to iOS,
00:19:16
◼
►
let's talk about our first sponsor.
00:19:18
◼
►
It is our friends at Cards Against Humanity.
00:19:21
◼
►
Now, Cards Against Humanity, rather than actually
00:19:25
◼
►
giving us a sponsorship to read,
00:19:27
◼
►
they have asked Jon to review a toaster.
00:19:30
◼
►
So Jon, what is the toaster of the week?
00:19:33
◼
►
- So this week's toaster is the Hamilton Beach
00:19:35
◼
►
Toast Station, model 22722.
00:19:38
◼
►
- That's it?
00:19:40
◼
►
- Both of you pull this up, because this is,
00:19:42
◼
►
this marks a turning point, I think, in our toaster review.
00:19:44
◼
►
- What is this abomination?
00:19:46
◼
►
- What is this abomination?
00:19:47
◼
►
- This is an octoparrot.
00:19:50
◼
►
It's not a referring toaster.
00:19:51
◼
►
It is kind of an octoparrot.
00:19:53
◼
►
- What is that?
00:19:54
◼
►
- Polly shouldn't be.
00:19:55
◼
►
Casey does not get that reference.
00:19:57
◼
►
- Neither does Marco.
00:19:58
◼
►
This thing, I will describe it for you.
00:20:00
◼
►
It looks like a toaster oven,
00:20:01
◼
►
and seeing it in person,
00:20:03
◼
►
it's like my Breville toaster oven was cut in half,
00:20:06
◼
►
so it was half the depth,
00:20:07
◼
►
so it sticks out from the wall of my kitchen half as far.
00:20:10
◼
►
So that's the first chop.
00:20:12
◼
►
And the second chop is vertically,
00:20:14
◼
►
where the door that opens up
00:20:16
◼
►
is half the height of the toaster.
00:20:17
◼
►
And what are they doing with the rest
00:20:18
◼
►
of the vertical head of the toaster?
00:20:20
◼
►
There's a slot in the top where you put pieces
00:20:23
◼
►
of bread product in and push down a knob on the side.
00:20:26
◼
►
This is a slot toaster and a toaster oven in one.
00:20:28
◼
►
We will put the link in the show notes so you can look at it.
00:20:30
◼
►
It's kind of like one of those magician's boxes
00:20:32
◼
►
where you expect there's like mirrors in there.
00:20:33
◼
►
It's like when you push down the toast,
00:20:35
◼
►
where does the toast go?
00:20:36
◼
►
Well, there are no mirrors.
00:20:37
◼
►
It's not magic.
00:20:37
◼
►
When you put toast in the top of this thing in a slot
00:20:39
◼
►
and push them down, they sit vertically
00:20:42
◼
►
in the middle of the toaster oven.
00:20:43
◼
►
So you can't use the slot toaster portion
00:20:44
◼
►
in the regular oven portion at the same time.
00:20:47
◼
►
Well, that's not that unreasonable.
00:20:49
◼
►
Well, so here's the thing.
00:20:50
◼
►
Like a refrigerator toaster, this has many, many compromised.
00:20:55
◼
►
Well, first let's talk about the interface.
00:20:57
◼
►
It has an on/off switch, which is nice.
00:20:59
◼
►
So you can turn the darkness knob to whatever you want
00:21:02
◼
►
and then use the on/off switch.
00:21:03
◼
►
But it also, of course, has the toaster plunger part,
00:21:05
◼
►
where you don't use the on/off switch then.
00:21:06
◼
►
Then you just push down the little plunger
00:21:08
◼
►
if you're using the slot toaster thing.
00:21:10
◼
►
The supposed benefits of slot toasters is that it toasts
00:21:14
◼
►
And this is a little bit faster, it's like three minutes for two slices, which is a little
00:21:18
◼
►
bit faster than the Breville.
00:21:19
◼
►
But it's not that much faster because it's got two sort of quartz heating elements on
00:21:23
◼
►
the bottom and then it's got one heating element on the side of the slot and one heating element
00:21:28
◼
►
on the other side of the slot.
00:21:30
◼
►
That does speed things up a little bit.
00:21:33
◼
►
But what do you trade that for?
00:21:34
◼
►
Well, you put things in the slot toaster on the top and they come out not very evenly
00:21:39
◼
►
browned at all, which kind of makes sense because it's just one heating element on either
00:21:43
◼
►
toaster where they have all the resistive wires going all over it, gives nice even heat
00:21:47
◼
►
over the whole piece of bread. These things come out super spotty, like big dark spots,
00:21:51
◼
►
big spots that are underdone. And the first time I tried to use it, I put English muffins
00:21:56
◼
►
in the top, and the slot is very wide, I'm assuming to be able to support bagels, but
00:21:59
◼
►
it doesn't grip things very closely. So I put English muffins, which are not very wide
00:22:04
◼
►
in there, and pressed it down, and then tried to pop them back up, and one of the English
00:22:08
◼
►
muffins had to sort of like bent over because there was too much room in the slot and it
00:22:11
◼
►
curled back on itself. When I popped it up, it had like crunched over and didn't pop back
00:22:15
◼
►
up and I had to fish it out with a knife. This is the very first time I'm using this
00:22:18
◼
►
thing. So the slot toaster is crap. Like, it does not toast as well as a real slot toaster
00:22:22
◼
►
does. It's a little bit faster than a toaster oven, but when you get out of it, it's worthless.
00:22:25
◼
►
I would never toast anything in that. It's worse than all of my toaster ovens. It is
00:22:30
◼
►
not evenly browned. It is not very fast. And then the toaster oven portion is super small.
00:22:34
◼
►
You can only put two slices of bread in there. Your height is compromised. The little door
00:22:38
◼
►
that you open it super chintzy feeling and when the thing is done it makes this
00:22:41
◼
►
terrible long beeping sequence that you wish would stop like it beeps two times
00:22:45
◼
►
you pull out the toaster just keeps beeping and keeps beeping this is the
00:22:49
◼
►
new champion for the worst toaster that we have ever tested it is not a good
00:22:53
◼
►
toaster oven it is not a good slot toaster it and people keep sending this
00:22:56
◼
►
to me when we were talking about hey you should check this out it's a slot toaster
00:22:58
◼
►
and toaster oven it is bad at both of those jobs do not buy this product I do
00:23:02
◼
►
not understand how it has a three and a half star rating on Amazon
00:23:07
◼
►
That's amazing. So what you're saying is that this is not as good as your other toasters?
00:23:14
◼
►
It's not, it's just not good. Like the picture they have, the second picture on Amazon, if
00:23:18
◼
►
you swipe, it shows like this beautifully brown bread coming out. That does not happen.
00:23:22
◼
►
No bread that looks like that ever comes out of this toaster.
00:23:26
◼
►
So you're saying that slot toasters may not be sufficient for you?
00:23:30
◼
►
This is not a slot toaster. I think slot toasters are fine, or would do better than this. Because
00:23:33
◼
►
again, slot toasters have lots of, you ever see them with little wires that glow orange
00:23:36
◼
►
inside them there's a whole bunch of those wires crystalized and they brown it evenly
00:23:39
◼
►
this just has two toaster oven elements sitting on either side of the slots and it also turns
00:23:44
◼
►
on the two bottom ones it's a mess this was like someone thought it would be a good idea
00:23:48
◼
►
but it's totally not how much does this cost I didn't even look well it's like $32 it is
00:23:51
◼
►
$30 so you kind of get what you pay for but please don't buy this mine was red the only
00:23:57
◼
►
thing it has to recommend is that mine came in red which is kind of cool looking but other
00:24:00
◼
►
- Other than that.
00:24:01
◼
►
- Does it match your toaster?
00:24:02
◼
►
- Thumbs down.
00:24:03
◼
►
- So fun fact, Hamilton Beach's headquarters
00:24:07
◼
►
are in Richmond, Virginia.
00:24:09
◼
►
- You can go there and throw eggs at it later.
00:24:12
◼
►
I think we've done another Hamilton Beach toaster,
00:24:14
◼
►
but I don't remember what the model was.
00:24:15
◼
►
- Yeah, that's all right.
00:24:16
◼
►
- So thanks a lot to Cards Against Humanity
00:24:18
◼
►
for sponsoring our show once again.
00:24:20
◼
►
- All right. - So iOS 9.
00:24:22
◼
►
- Well, are we done with OS X?
00:24:24
◼
►
I think we're never done with OS X.
00:24:25
◼
►
- As far as any of us can remember from the keynote,
00:24:28
◼
►
- Probably, but as I go to sessions and learn new things,
00:24:31
◼
►
I'm sure new things will come up.
00:24:32
◼
►
- Right, okay.
00:24:33
◼
►
- But the keynote, they didn't spend much time on it, right?
00:24:35
◼
►
- Well, it wasn't that much, no.
00:24:37
◼
►
Okay, so I'm sorry, Marco, carry on.
00:24:38
◼
►
- All right, so big hill-lining features of iOS 9
00:24:42
◼
►
were a lot of the API improvements,
00:24:43
◼
►
and then user-facing stuff,
00:24:44
◼
►
there's this new proactive assistant,
00:24:46
◼
►
and part of this is on OS X as well,
00:24:47
◼
►
in the new spotlight window.
00:24:50
◼
►
It seemed like this is a lot of similar kinds of stuff.
00:24:53
◼
►
So big disappointment for me,
00:24:56
◼
►
the forced search page on Springboard is now back.
00:25:01
◼
►
Remember the way it used to be
00:25:02
◼
►
where Spotlight was a page on the left?
00:25:04
◼
►
- Now it's still, now once again, it's a page on the left.
00:25:07
◼
►
But besides that, it looks pretty good.
00:25:09
◼
►
I'm curious to see, I mean, they seem to be integrating
00:25:13
◼
►
a whole lot of web service type stuff in here,
00:25:17
◼
►
web data results, it really is a continuation of them
00:25:23
◼
►
kind of encroached you on Google's territory.
00:25:26
◼
►
And not in some ways, and not quite to the degree
00:25:30
◼
►
Google does these things, but you could tell
00:25:32
◼
►
that's kind of the direction they're trying to go in.
00:25:35
◼
►
I don't know, I mean, to me, I have found things
00:25:39
◼
►
like the Safari autocomplete for websites
00:25:42
◼
►
that doesn't use Google at all.
00:25:44
◼
►
Things like the current spotlight on iOS 8
00:25:47
◼
►
that tries to integrate web and app store results
00:25:49
◼
►
and everything, it has some problems sometimes,
00:25:51
◼
►
but for the most part, this stuff works pretty well for me.
00:25:54
◼
►
So this looks like a pretty good continuation
00:25:56
◼
►
of that process, and I'm really excited
00:25:59
◼
►
about the app indexing kind of thing,
00:26:01
◼
►
where you can, like now apps, either through their websites
00:26:04
◼
►
or through the app itself on the phone,
00:26:06
◼
►
they can publish searchable data for Spotlight
00:26:10
◼
►
and for Siri, and that's pretty cool.
00:26:11
◼
►
- Yeah, that's pretty fascinating.
00:26:12
◼
►
What was interesting to me about the whole iOS 9 section
00:26:14
◼
►
was we got to see how Apple, well, maybe not the mechanisms,
00:26:19
◼
►
but the features that Apple is putting together to try to combat, what is it, Google Now,
00:26:26
◼
►
where, you know, Google will--since Google, in many cases, has all of your data, it knows
00:26:31
◼
►
when you're going to fly next and when you're going--when you need to have another--when
00:26:35
◼
►
you have another appointment. Server-side, Google can look at that and say, "Oh, well,
00:26:39
◼
►
Casey is supposed to go to dinner with Aaron in 20 minutes, but traffic says if he doesn't
00:26:45
◼
►
and leave now, he's going to miss it.
00:26:47
◼
►
And it was interesting seeing how Apple's trying to create
00:26:50
◼
►
some of that Google Now functionality, but without
00:26:53
◼
►
crawling all your data server-side.
00:26:55
◼
►
Now, what was very hand-wavy and don't worry your pretty
00:26:58
◼
►
little faces was, well, how are they really accomplishing
00:27:01
◼
►
that on the device?
00:27:02
◼
►
And the implication was--
00:27:04
◼
►
and in many ways, the statement was, well, it's all
00:27:06
◼
►
happening on the device, so it's fine, it's fine, it's
00:27:08
◼
►
fine-- and they made a lot of indirect and direct comments
00:27:12
◼
►
about privacy and about, "Oh, it's under your control. Everything is on. The users own all
00:27:18
◼
►
this data. We don't want to know." Actually, they literally occasionally said, "We don't
00:27:22
◼
►
want to know." Often they said, "We don't know or can't know." And so it was very interesting
00:27:27
◼
►
to me to see Apple's reaction to that kind of omnipresent Google that people either love
00:27:34
◼
►
or hate, depending on what your particular opinion is.
00:27:36
◼
►
Yeah, I don't know if that strategy... I can't tell if that strategy is like, "This is our
00:27:40
◼
►
corporate differentiator, this is what we believe as people that we don't want that
00:27:44
◼
►
thing or that it's like that's what they have. They don't have the server capacity.
00:27:48
◼
►
So we're thinking about the on-device stuff, right? So Google checks your email, figures
00:27:52
◼
►
out that you have a flight and can do all that stuff because it sees your email everywhere,
00:27:57
◼
►
right? Whereas Apple's like, oh, this all happens on device. And that sounds fine to
00:28:00
◼
►
you, like, well, but what if I don't check that mail account on my iPad? Does that mean
00:28:04
◼
►
my iPad doesn't know I have a flight? And if it's all on device, the answer is, yeah.
00:28:08
◼
►
How could the iPad know that you have a flight if you're not checking that email account
00:28:12
◼
►
from your iPad?
00:28:13
◼
►
Maybe it doesn't matter.
00:28:14
◼
►
Maybe people don't have 50 email accounts and they check all their email accounts on
00:28:16
◼
►
every device or whatever.
00:28:17
◼
►
But basically, the smarts are isolated and confined to the data that's on that device.
00:28:22
◼
►
But your life may encompass more data than is on any single device.
00:28:27
◼
►
And so how can it get a picture of my whole life if all the stuff is necessarily local?
00:28:32
◼
►
I feel like if Apple is going to make more intelligent features, it's going to have to
00:28:35
◼
►
eventually move away from that.
00:28:36
◼
►
And I don't think that's such a big deal.
00:28:38
◼
►
They don't read our iMessages.
00:28:39
◼
►
The iMessages are all two-way encrypted.
00:28:41
◼
►
But there should be a way-- you need some global awareness
00:28:45
◼
►
that is not confined to a device to do really smart things.
00:28:48
◼
►
So this is a good start for Apple.
00:28:49
◼
►
You can do lots of smart things just on the device.
00:28:51
◼
►
But if you tried to explain to a person,
00:28:58
◼
►
it's hard to say because the watch is not
00:29:00
◼
►
really an independent device or whatever.
00:29:01
◼
►
But why doesn't my iPad know that I have a flight?
00:29:05
◼
►
If I use Google, everything knows.
00:29:07
◼
►
when I'm on-- and if you use Google,
00:29:08
◼
►
when I'm on my computer at work, it
00:29:09
◼
►
pops up a thing in my face that says, oh, don't
00:29:11
◼
►
forget about your flight.
00:29:12
◼
►
But on my Apple stuff, only my phone knows.
00:29:15
◼
►
Why is that?
00:29:16
◼
►
Well, because you're at work and you're not checking
00:29:18
◼
►
your home email and your work thing.
00:29:20
◼
►
You're just checking your exchange.
00:29:21
◼
►
Trying to explain to them the technical intricacies,
00:29:23
◼
►
they won't understand.
00:29:24
◼
►
Then you try to explain, well, it's for privacy reasons.
00:29:27
◼
►
So Apple doesn't have your data.
00:29:28
◼
►
And they're like, well, I just want
00:29:29
◼
►
to let computers tell me where my flight is.
00:29:31
◼
►
This is the thing that frustrates Marco so much,
00:29:33
◼
►
that people don't care as much about privacy,
00:29:36
◼
►
certainly as Marco does, and perhaps not even as much as Apple does. I think their biggest,
00:29:40
◼
►
their best selling point is we won't sell your stuff for third parties, we won't give
00:29:43
◼
►
your stuff for third parties. Like if you decide that you trust Apple for whatever reason,
00:29:48
◼
►
you only have to trust us, you don't have to trust us and everybody we will ever do
00:29:50
◼
►
business for, which is technically not true because Apple could give you information to
00:29:54
◼
►
whoever the hell they wanted, but their current terms and conditions and their current strategies,
00:29:57
◼
►
they're telling you, hey, that's their value proposition, give your data to Apple, we won't
00:30:01
◼
►
look at it, we won't give it to anybody else. That I think is a little bit easier to sell
00:30:05
◼
►
for people who are scared of privacy, but I think history has shown that people are
00:30:08
◼
►
like, "Alright, well, fine, whatever. I have all my data. I just want to know what my flight
00:30:10
◼
►
is no matter where I am." So I think Apple is going to, not this year, but some future
00:30:16
◼
►
generation, come up against this barrier and say, "We've done everything we can do local.
00:30:20
◼
►
How do we get sort of information about you and your life that spans all of our devices
00:30:27
◼
►
while still keeping your data private?" And I'm not entirely sure they know yet.
00:30:30
◼
►
- Well, and you know, I think time will tell.
00:30:33
◼
►
I mean, you know, Apple is really hitting home on this,
00:30:36
◼
►
or driving this home because I think you're right
00:30:38
◼
►
that this is some of what they believe.
00:30:41
◼
►
That they truly believe this is very important.
00:30:44
◼
►
But also, this is obviously a competitive differentiator.
00:30:46
◼
►
And I don't think the market cares as much as Apple does.
00:30:51
◼
►
That might not be a bad thing.
00:30:52
◼
►
I mean, the market doesn't care about attention to detail
00:30:54
◼
►
as much as Apple does, or design as much as Apple does
00:30:57
◼
►
in general either.
00:30:58
◼
►
That doesn't mean they shouldn't do those things
00:31:00
◼
►
and that doesn't appeal to a lot of people anyway.
00:31:02
◼
►
- I think that that influences people
00:31:05
◼
►
on sort of a subconscious level, right?
00:31:08
◼
►
Whereas these privacy things I'm not sure they do,
00:31:10
◼
►
I'm not sure people are even aware of.
00:31:12
◼
►
Like, we talked about this with iMessage,
00:31:14
◼
►
I talked about it when I was on Rocket.
00:31:16
◼
►
Like, the privacy advantages of iMessage
00:31:19
◼
►
are really beyond people's knowing.
00:31:22
◼
►
All they know is like,
00:31:23
◼
►
if I looked at this conversation on my Mac
00:31:25
◼
►
and then I looked at it on my phone
00:31:27
◼
►
and some stuff wasn't in both places.
00:31:28
◼
►
and they don't understand why.
00:31:30
◼
►
And if you try to explain to them they don't care,
00:31:32
◼
►
they just want it to be everywhere.
00:31:33
◼
►
Like Google works the way people,
00:31:35
◼
►
Google stuff works the way people think
00:31:37
◼
►
modern computers should work.
00:31:38
◼
►
And when anybody ever gets used to my stuff everywhere,
00:31:41
◼
►
anything that is not everywhere,
00:31:43
◼
►
they think of it as a bug.
00:31:44
◼
►
Like oh, well my Google stuff is everywhere.
00:31:46
◼
►
I like that better.
00:31:47
◼
►
- Right, exactly.
00:31:48
◼
►
It's funny, quick aside,
00:31:50
◼
►
I was on the plane on the way to San Francisco,
00:31:53
◼
►
and I hadn't had my laptop connected to the internet
00:31:56
◼
►
in I don't know, a few hours or something like that.
00:31:58
◼
►
and on the plane where I'm on this god-awful terrible connection, which is to be expected
00:32:02
◼
►
because I'm in a tube 30,000 feet in the sky, I noticed or I was trying to carry on a conversation
00:32:09
◼
►
with Aaron via iMessage, but it was completely unintelligible because what ended up happening
00:32:14
◼
►
is I would type something, send it, and then messages from hours ago would come in below
00:32:19
◼
►
what I had just typed. And so I could not follow the conversation because I was reliving
00:32:24
◼
►
the conversation from hours before. And it was at the, in the heat of the moment, it
00:32:27
◼
►
was extremely frustrating. And thankfully, I understand enough about the mechanisms behind
00:32:31
◼
►
it to have realized, well, you know, I'll just have to wait this out. But I could see
00:32:36
◼
►
out to a regular user that would be unbelievably infuriating.
00:32:39
◼
►
>> Yeah, the local on-device, there's lots of low-hanging fruit they can do local on-device.
00:32:43
◼
►
And I think that they're doing this stuff--what they're doing, all these things they're doing,
00:32:47
◼
►
despite characterizing it as like the anti-Google, they're doing Google-like things. They're
00:32:50
◼
►
doing them on your device, but it's very Google-like.
00:32:53
◼
►
>> Oh, yeah.
00:32:54
◼
►
>> You know, and these are--and the best things for Google, things that people like from Google.
00:32:57
◼
►
So I think these sort of intelligent features,
00:33:01
◼
►
if they work well, will help Apple catch up a little bit
00:33:06
◼
►
to the good impression that Google makes in people's mind
00:33:09
◼
►
when it does smart things of like presenting them
00:33:12
◼
►
with information just-- I mean, the watch helps that.
00:33:14
◼
►
Presenting them with information just in time
00:33:16
◼
►
that is relevant to them with context,
00:33:18
◼
►
like even just the simple stuff of remind me about this later.
00:33:22
◼
►
Really easy to do, but once someone gets used to it,
00:33:25
◼
►
any device that doesn't have that very simple context awareness will seem dumber.
00:33:29
◼
►
Yeah, absolutely. The other thing that I noticed that Apple seems to be doing a lot with is
00:33:34
◼
►
natural language processing. And I can't think of an example right off the top of my head
00:33:39
◼
►
that was from the keynote, but something like Fantastical is famous for. So, you know, "Dinner
00:33:44
◼
►
tomorrow with Aaron at 5 p.m." And you type all that out. You type the words, "Dinner
00:33:49
◼
►
tomorrow with Aaron at 5 p.m." And it will parse out the relevant pieces and file them
00:33:54
◼
►
calendar appointment as expected. Well, this wasn't specifically about calendaring in the
00:33:58
◼
►
keynote, but they were doing similar style of natural language searches in like Spotlight,
00:34:03
◼
►
for example, which were really impressive. I think they did an example with photos, if
00:34:07
◼
►
I'm not mistaken.
00:34:08
◼
►
>> It even worked in Finder on the Mac. I mean, like that engine was--it was on the
00:34:12
◼
►
Mac, it was in Finder, it was in iOS and Spotlight and in Siri.
00:34:17
◼
►
>> It's--like that was really all over the place and it looked pretty impressive. The
00:34:21
◼
►
The challenge I think for, there's gonna be two challenges.
00:34:25
◼
►
Like you know, geeks like us,
00:34:26
◼
►
we won't know what we can do there.
00:34:29
◼
►
- We just wanna use the K prefix constants,
00:34:31
◼
►
K, M, D, last modified, exactly.
00:34:34
◼
►
Like that query syntax makes sense to geeks.
00:34:37
◼
►
I remember loving Altavista because it worked
00:34:39
◼
►
in such a sort of deterministic way.
00:34:43
◼
►
You could do plus and minus words,
00:34:45
◼
►
the pages would have those words in it,
00:34:46
◼
►
it made absolute sense.
00:34:47
◼
►
Then when Google came along it's like,
00:34:49
◼
►
I can type words into the Google search box,
00:34:50
◼
►
But some of these words might not even appear on the page.
00:34:53
◼
►
Because if I type, like, how to cook an omelet,
00:34:55
◼
►
the page might not even have the word how on it.
00:34:57
◼
►
It's a different mode.
00:34:58
◼
►
So if you're a programmer, you're like,
00:34:59
◼
►
I just want a deterministic machine.
00:35:00
◼
►
You just tell me the query language,
00:35:01
◼
►
and I will construct the query.
00:35:03
◼
►
But that is not how people query things.
00:35:04
◼
►
And so, yeah, Spotlight has had all these features
00:35:07
◼
►
for a long time.
00:35:08
◼
►
Nobody uses them except for geeks.
00:35:09
◼
►
And even geeks can't remember all the stupid K prefix
00:35:12
◼
►
So this upgrade to Spotlight of having natural language
00:35:15
◼
►
querying-- and the Fantastic L is a great example of, like,
00:35:18
◼
►
I use Google's appointments partly
00:35:20
◼
►
because they do a little bit of that natural language stuff.
00:35:22
◼
►
Like I do like, you know, 1 p.m. haircut.
00:35:24
◼
►
Even something as simple as that.
00:35:26
◼
►
Trying to enter a 1 p.m. haircut in Apple's things
00:35:29
◼
►
is way harder than typing 1 p.m.'s base haircut,
00:35:32
◼
►
and it shouldn't be harder.
00:35:33
◼
►
And so Apple is, again, playing catch up here,
00:35:35
◼
►
but long overdue.
00:35:36
◼
►
And the thing, I think there's still a lot of room to grow,
00:35:38
◼
►
but when they say like, oh, you know,
00:35:41
◼
►
dinner with Aaron at seven,
00:35:42
◼
►
what if you knew two people named Aaron?
00:35:43
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah. - That's when things
00:35:44
◼
►
fall down and like, it's like, oh,
00:35:46
◼
►
well maybe it presents a picker
00:35:47
◼
►
and shows me the two people in Aaron, I pick the one.
00:35:49
◼
►
That's like the next level.
00:35:50
◼
►
The next level is look, 99% of the time I mean that Aaron.
00:35:54
◼
►
And when I say Aaron, just pick that one.
00:35:57
◼
►
Put the picker up and if I don't do anything with it,
00:35:59
◼
►
just default it to that.
00:36:01
◼
►
It's like getting up to sort of human assistant level
00:36:03
◼
►
where I don't need to clarify who it is.
00:36:06
◼
►
Or even if you could like, if they were all on
00:36:08
◼
►
Find My Friends and one of the people is not
00:36:11
◼
►
within flying distance to be there at some point
00:36:13
◼
►
and they can figure out because they live in a different state.
00:36:14
◼
►
I don't know.
00:36:15
◼
►
There is a long way to go to do intelligent assistant type
00:36:18
◼
►
So it's good seeing Apple getting a start in this area.
00:36:22
◼
►
- Well, and a lot of this stuff is hard.
00:36:23
◼
►
Like, if you think about an actual assistant,
00:36:25
◼
►
which I don't think any of us have ever actually had, right?
00:36:28
◼
►
- Okay, but-- - Hops, right?
00:36:30
◼
►
Not a big help?
00:36:31
◼
►
- He's of limited usefulness.
00:36:32
◼
►
He's mostly moral support.
00:36:34
◼
►
But, you know, he, so,
00:36:37
◼
►
actual assistants even have problems with these things.
00:36:41
◼
►
Like, human beings have problems with a lot of these things.
00:36:43
◼
►
Like, if you say something that is ambiguous
00:36:45
◼
►
or can be easily misunderstood
00:36:48
◼
►
mean something else, then this is a problem that on some levels can't be solved or has
00:36:55
◼
►
like a ceiling on how well it can be solved.
00:36:57
◼
►
Well, I mean, that's not, they need to clarify.
00:36:58
◼
►
The system, a good assistant would clarify and so will a computer, but the computer can
00:37:01
◼
►
be maddening because it clarifies every time.
00:37:03
◼
►
That's like, oh, Jesus, yes, it's still that errand.
00:37:06
◼
►
Almost always going to be that, unless another errand is in play, like that has an appointment
00:37:10
◼
►
with them, I've received an email from them recently, things that a human assistant would
00:37:14
◼
►
know whether they have, the human assistant would not repeatedly clarify which errand
00:37:17
◼
►
you're talking about.
00:37:18
◼
►
Because there's two in your address book.
00:37:20
◼
►
Like, just because they're in my address book,
00:37:21
◼
►
they don't have equal value.
00:37:23
◼
►
They don't have equal relevance to me.
00:37:24
◼
►
And that type of information about who is-- again,
00:37:26
◼
►
this requires global awareness.
00:37:28
◼
►
Maybe that person, other Aaron, is in your address book
00:37:31
◼
►
because you sent them an email three years ago.
00:37:33
◼
►
The relevance of that person, that entry,
00:37:35
◼
►
you don't want to delete it because you might want
00:37:36
◼
►
to email them again like they're your real estate agent
00:37:38
◼
►
or something.
00:37:38
◼
►
You want to put it--
00:37:40
◼
►
yeah, we've got a long way to go in this area.
00:37:42
◼
►
But yeah, it's good to see Apple getting started.
00:37:44
◼
►
- And that's the kind of area that Google is usually
00:37:48
◼
►
much better at than Apple.
00:37:49
◼
►
And that's why I worry a little bit about,
00:37:51
◼
►
I'm curious to see how this ends up working with Apple,
00:37:54
◼
►
if they show signs of being able to do this kind of thing
00:37:57
◼
►
and improving in this area.
00:37:58
◼
►
Because historically, again, I think they've lagged
00:38:01
◼
►
very far behind Google historically
00:38:02
◼
►
in that kind of big data problem.
00:38:05
◼
►
But we will see.
00:38:06
◼
►
- Yeah, absolutely.
00:38:08
◼
►
Do we want to talk about the Apple Pay changes?
00:38:11
◼
►
And more specifically, actually, I wanted to bring up,
00:38:14
◼
►
we saw two women on stage today.
00:38:17
◼
►
- Which was awesome and surprising.
00:38:19
◼
►
And it was so surprising that I actually wanted to call out
00:38:22
◼
►
a text message I got from a coworker
00:38:24
◼
►
as I was sitting in the keynote.
00:38:26
◼
►
I believe this, she was referring to,
00:38:28
◼
►
that my coworker was referring to the second woman
00:38:31
◼
►
who came on stage, and I apologize
00:38:32
◼
►
because I don't remember their names,
00:38:34
◼
►
but I got this text message from my friend at work, Chris.
00:38:39
◼
►
She said, "What?
00:38:40
◼
►
a woman presenting something at Apple,
00:38:42
◼
►
then that was phenomenal to her.
00:38:45
◼
►
And this is someone who is like really enthusiastic
00:38:48
◼
►
about the watch, but generally speaking,
00:38:50
◼
►
doesn't pay the kind of attention that we pay.
00:38:52
◼
►
So this is like a quote unquote normal,
00:38:54
◼
►
which is such a dismissive way of describing her.
00:38:56
◼
►
And I don't mean it to be dismissive,
00:38:57
◼
►
but someone who doesn't really follow this like we do
00:39:00
◼
►
was stunned that there were,
00:39:02
◼
►
was one woman brought on stage, let alone two.
00:39:04
◼
►
And so I'm really pleased that Apple's finally listening
00:39:09
◼
►
and making these strides.
00:39:10
◼
►
And a friend of the show, Christina Warren,
00:39:12
◼
►
who was on the show, what, two weeks ago,
00:39:14
◼
►
she actually interviewed Tim Cook-- was it Sunday night,
00:39:18
◼
►
Something like that.
00:39:19
◼
►
For Mashable.
00:39:20
◼
►
And she had pressed him on this a little bit.
00:39:22
◼
►
And he said, basically, watch the space.
00:39:24
◼
►
And sure enough, we watched the space,
00:39:26
◼
►
and there were two women presenters.
00:39:27
◼
►
And I thought they were great.
00:39:28
◼
►
Yeah, that was teased in that interview.
00:39:30
◼
►
And it's good to see it.
00:39:33
◼
►
Tim Cook was very forthcoming with the whole diversity report
00:39:35
◼
►
and everything, that they have not done well in here,
00:39:37
◼
►
and they're making changes to improve things.
00:39:39
◼
►
Was it half women?
00:39:40
◼
►
Was it majority women?
00:39:41
◼
►
No, but it was more than zero.
00:39:43
◼
►
Like, you know, they're making progress.
00:39:44
◼
►
- It was two and seven.
00:39:45
◼
►
- Right, and the other thing to keep in mind about WWDC
00:39:49
◼
►
is like, well, the glory things like the keynote
00:39:51
◼
►
and like the State of the Union used to be just all men,
00:39:53
◼
►
right, and now getting women there is super important.
00:39:55
◼
►
But if you don't go to WWDC, you may not realize
00:39:58
◼
►
how many technical sessions at WWDC are presented
00:40:03
◼
►
either primarily by women, like they're the main speaker
00:40:05
◼
►
for the whole thing or incorporate women.
00:40:07
◼
►
There are women, that was the whole thing,
00:40:09
◼
►
it was like there are women on Apple's team.
00:40:10
◼
►
Apple's diversity is not great, but it's not terrible.
00:40:14
◼
►
It was very commonplace to see women giving presentations
00:40:17
◼
►
and any type of presentation at WOEDC, right?
00:40:20
◼
►
But you never saw them in the keynote,
00:40:22
◼
►
so that's what made it all the more glaring.
00:40:23
◼
►
It's like, well, we've got a company full
00:40:25
◼
►
of all these people, but really,
00:40:27
◼
►
the only people who ever get to talk is Tim Cook
00:40:28
◼
►
and a bunch of other similarly aged,
00:40:30
◼
►
similarly appearing men.
00:40:32
◼
►
And so yeah, that makes it, and that's the whole thing.
00:40:35
◼
►
We didn't know the names of these people.
00:40:36
◼
►
Steve Jobs was big in not telling you the names
00:40:38
◼
►
of anybody who was in the company,
00:40:39
◼
►
except for the big headline executives.
00:40:41
◼
►
That's why everyone thought it would be Angela,
00:40:43
◼
►
whose last name I can't pronounce.
00:40:44
◼
►
Angela Ahrendts, like, oh, she'll definitely be up there,
00:40:46
◼
►
because she's the woman who's on their
00:40:48
◼
►
C-level executives page.
00:40:51
◼
►
But there are tons of women at Apple,
00:40:52
◼
►
and I don't think it was particularly hard to find them.
00:40:55
◼
►
Who's the head of Apple Pay?
00:40:56
◼
►
Apparently this woman, who we never knew before,
00:40:58
◼
►
because who knows, half her present the Apple Pay part,
00:41:02
◼
►
instead of having Phil Schiller do it or something, right?
00:41:04
◼
►
It just makes perfect sense.
00:41:05
◼
►
And I think they did great.
00:41:06
◼
►
I think they both looked a little bit nervous.
00:41:08
◼
►
As we know, the men who presented for the first time
00:41:10
◼
►
also felt a little nervous.
00:41:12
◼
►
I think that the second one up, she
00:41:14
◼
►
had a really good joke about reading ESPN for the articles.
00:41:17
◼
►
And she seemed very relaxed.
00:41:18
◼
►
And the reaction to them in the room was good.
00:41:23
◼
►
They did much better than a lot of men first time presenters.
00:41:26
◼
►
And it's difficult for them to be in the spotlight about,
00:41:28
◼
►
oh, are you just a woman presenter?
00:41:30
◼
►
These are people in charge of these parts of the product.
00:41:33
◼
►
They're not just plucked out of the,
00:41:34
◼
►
oh, you're a woman, can you talk about this product?
00:41:36
◼
►
They're in charge of this, this is their job.
00:41:38
◼
►
So I thought it was exactly what it should have been.
00:41:42
◼
►
The actual women behind important technologies
00:41:45
◼
►
doing presentations on those technologies
00:41:47
◼
►
that they created, that their team created.
00:41:49
◼
►
So big thumbs up.
00:41:50
◼
►
- Yeah, definitely.
00:41:51
◼
►
So I brought up Apple Pay because it was
00:41:54
◼
►
the woman who was in charge of Apple Pay that presented.
00:41:56
◼
►
I didn't think there was too much there to unpack.
00:41:59
◼
►
The couple of highlights for me were loyalty cards
00:42:01
◼
►
being integrated into Passbook,
00:42:04
◼
►
which is sort of not Passbook anymore,
00:42:05
◼
►
we'll get there in a second.
00:42:07
◼
►
That's really exciting to me because about a year ago
00:42:09
◼
►
I tried to slim down my wallet from being as thick
00:42:11
◼
►
as Jon's wallet, which I'm looking at next to him
00:42:13
◼
►
and it's like four feet thick.
00:42:15
◼
►
- It's all money.
00:42:16
◼
►
- Oh, listen to this guy, listen to this guy.
00:42:19
◼
►
Making it rain in here.
00:42:20
◼
►
- Yeah, the singles, man.
00:42:21
◼
►
- But no, the--
00:42:22
◼
►
- It's like 15 singles in here.
00:42:23
◼
►
- We'll have to do--
00:42:24
◼
►
- We already stripped club, but it's cool.
00:42:27
◼
►
So we're gonna have to talk in the post show
00:42:28
◼
►
about how wrong a tri-fold wallet is,
00:42:29
◼
►
but we'll leave that for another time.
00:42:31
◼
►
But anyway, so loyalty cards are now in Passbook,
00:42:34
◼
►
which when I went through this like wallet cleansing
00:42:37
◼
►
and purging event about a year ago,
00:42:39
◼
►
what I found was I had a bunch of loyalty cards
00:42:42
◼
►
that I use once a month, but I wanna have them
00:42:45
◼
►
because they save me money or earn me perks
00:42:48
◼
►
or whatever the case may be.
00:42:49
◼
►
And so I wanted to have them with me,
00:42:51
◼
►
and so what I ended up doing was putting those all
00:42:52
◼
►
in my glove box, well, in my car.
00:42:55
◼
►
Well, it would be awesome to have that in Passbook,
00:42:57
◼
►
so I don't need to worry about that anymore,
00:43:00
◼
►
and that's exactly what's coming with iOS 9.
00:43:02
◼
►
I thought that was awesome.
00:43:04
◼
►
Any thoughts about that before I move on, gentlemen?
00:43:06
◼
►
The favorite thing I have about loyalty cards
00:43:08
◼
►
is that once you get a loyalty card
00:43:12
◼
►
and you put it into Apple Pay, it's
00:43:14
◼
►
a signifier that store accepts Apple Pay,
00:43:16
◼
►
because otherwise how would they let
00:43:18
◼
►
you put your loyalty card in it?
00:43:19
◼
►
So if you're going to slim down your wallet,
00:43:22
◼
►
you should be pulling out credit cards that can go into Apple
00:43:26
◼
►
Pay, pulling out loyalty cards that go into Apple Pay.
00:43:28
◼
►
And all of that means another location
00:43:29
◼
►
where you can use Apple Pay.
00:43:30
◼
►
And having used Apple Pay now for a little while,
00:43:32
◼
►
I wish every place could use Apple Pay.
00:43:34
◼
►
Because it's much more convenient
00:43:35
◼
►
than digging out your big, giant wallet
00:43:36
◼
►
and pulling things out of it.
00:43:37
◼
►
So it's gonna take a while for us to get there,
00:43:39
◼
►
but I can imagine certain people,
00:43:42
◼
►
if they pick where they shop very carefully,
00:43:43
◼
►
which is exactly what Apple wants,
00:43:44
◼
►
they're like, you should, you know, frequent Apple Pay stores
00:43:47
◼
►
as a reward for them carrying Apple Pay.
00:43:50
◼
►
I've been surprised so far at the success of Apple Pay.
00:43:52
◼
►
One of the places I tried to use Apple Pay,
00:43:54
◼
►
recently I didn't take it, was up on that slide,
00:43:56
◼
►
Trader Joe's.
00:43:57
◼
►
I went there, I'm like, do you take Apple Pay?
00:43:58
◼
►
They're like, oh, sorry, we don't.
00:43:59
◼
►
Well, they're going to this year.
00:44:00
◼
►
So they're knocking them down one by one, all the stories
00:44:04
◼
►
that we go to.
00:44:05
◼
►
That's awesome.
00:44:06
◼
►
The other thing I wanted to note about Apple Pay
00:44:08
◼
►
was that they are now partnering with Square--
00:44:12
◼
►
I'm assuming it's a partnership.
00:44:13
◼
►
But anyway, they're partnering with Square
00:44:15
◼
►
to make some sort of NFC-based Apple Pay reader
00:44:19
◼
►
to work with Square, which I thought
00:44:21
◼
►
was a phenomenally bright idea for both companies.
00:44:24
◼
►
I mean, to me, it seemed like a win-win.
00:44:26
◼
►
Because Square is becoming kind of omnipresent,
00:44:29
◼
►
and even in places like Richmond,
00:44:31
◼
►
you know, it's not a San Francisco thing.
00:44:33
◼
►
I mean, even in Richmond, you see any sort
00:44:35
◼
►
of independent vendor is using Square now.
00:44:38
◼
►
And to have Apple Pay support for something
00:44:40
◼
►
as ubiquitous as Square, I think is extremely bright.
00:44:43
◼
►
And it seems that both Square and Apple
00:44:46
◼
►
are pushing that pretty heavily, which to me is brilliant.
00:44:49
◼
►
So I definitely applaud that.
00:44:51
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, that is a genius move.
00:44:52
◼
►
Like, I'm kinda, honestly, I'm kinda surprised
00:44:55
◼
►
it didn't happen when Apple Pay was launched last fall.
00:44:57
◼
►
But I'm glad it's happening now
00:44:59
◼
►
because that will make it a lot easier
00:45:01
◼
►
for a lot more places to take it.
00:45:03
◼
►
- Yeah, they're complementary systems
00:45:04
◼
►
because remember Square has always been like,
00:45:05
◼
►
oh, this is the little reader
00:45:07
◼
►
that you put into your headphone jack on your thing
00:45:09
◼
►
and if you have a kiosk, you can use an iPad kiosk
00:45:12
◼
►
and then hook up a card swipe or thing to it.
00:45:16
◼
►
They always have that sort of,
00:45:16
◼
►
it's like the last mile problem of payment.
00:45:19
◼
►
Like how do you get a thing from a customer
00:45:21
◼
►
that lets you pay with?
00:45:21
◼
►
And magnetic stripes are so barbaric
00:45:23
◼
►
that there was always the barrier.
00:45:25
◼
►
It's like, now that has been solved.
00:45:29
◼
►
Hopefully your well-heeled customers all have iOS devices that have Apple Pay.
00:45:34
◼
►
And it works best in cities filled with people who have iOS devices and stuff.
00:45:40
◼
►
Square is filling a need that like, you know, it's not like Walmart is going to use Square.
00:45:44
◼
►
The big credit card processors are geared towards the big customers, but if you're just
00:45:48
◼
►
selling a bunch of stuff out of a kiosk or something, like a craft fair, having Square
00:45:52
◼
►
is awesome because it makes you as fancy as the big vendors.
00:45:55
◼
►
But it's something you can set up yourself in a weekend
00:45:57
◼
►
and take payments from anybody with an iPhone.
00:46:00
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, I definitely applaud it.
00:46:02
◼
►
Marco, why don't you tell us about something else that's cool?
00:46:04
◼
►
- Our second sponsor this week is Automattic.
00:46:07
◼
►
Automattic is basically a little Bluetooth dongle
00:46:09
◼
►
that you plug into your car's OBD2 diagnostic port.
00:46:13
◼
►
This is the little port that's in the driver's side footwell
00:46:16
◼
►
that outputs diagnostic data,
00:46:18
◼
►
check engine codes and everything.
00:46:20
◼
►
And what this does is this is a little dongle you plug in
00:46:22
◼
►
then it has a smartphone app that runs an iOS or Android and then they have a whole
00:46:28
◼
►
suite of apps and they have an API, they have IFTTT integration so that you can then do
00:46:33
◼
►
things that are smart with that data and so they have a whole bunch of smarts in their
00:46:38
◼
►
app to start with. So their app, you can do things like, you know, your car outputs real
00:46:43
◼
►
time fuel economy data to that, metrics of like, you know, how fast you're going, whether
00:46:47
◼
►
you're turning and stuff like that. So Automattic does intelligent things with that like, profiling
00:46:52
◼
►
filing your efficiency and if you have a certain goal, a fuel efficiency set in mind, you can
00:46:58
◼
►
set a goal and you can say if I'm driving too aggressively where it's not going to do
00:47:02
◼
►
this, you can like beep at me and I'll get back in line. You can see graphs of how you've
00:47:06
◼
►
done in the past, how you're meeting your goals, how you're managing your fuel costs
00:47:09
◼
►
over time. You can also of course diagnose your check engine light because all that information
00:47:15
◼
►
is available in that port and their app can show you any, so if there's like a small error
00:47:19
◼
►
like your gas cap isn't sealed properly. Go, you know, go turn your gas cap and reset the
00:47:24
◼
►
air and you're all done. There's a lot of common problems that you can diagnose and
00:47:27
◼
►
turn off that would otherwise have shown just the check engine light. You would have had
00:47:30
◼
►
to go to a mechanic and pay a bunch of money and nope, you don't have to do that anymore.
00:47:34
◼
►
There's also a whole bunch of other stuff. So, you know, if you think about what's possible
00:47:38
◼
►
when you combine the smarts of software and an app on a smartphone plus your car's data,
00:47:44
◼
►
it can also do intelligent things like it can, it will call emergency services for you
00:47:48
◼
►
for free if you have a serious crash.
00:47:51
◼
►
And it can even tell them where you are.
00:47:54
◼
►
If you can't respond, it can do the whole call for you.
00:47:58
◼
►
That's a very impressive feature that hopefully
00:47:59
◼
►
is very important to some people if they need it.
00:48:02
◼
►
It can also do lighter stuff.
00:48:03
◼
►
Like it can remember where you parked.
00:48:06
◼
►
It knows when you turn the car off
00:48:07
◼
►
and your phone's in your pocket.
00:48:08
◼
►
Your phone knows where you are.
00:48:09
◼
►
So again, it can combine the intelligence from these two
00:48:12
◼
►
devices to really offer some great features.
00:48:14
◼
►
So it's available at automatic.com/atp.
00:48:18
◼
►
Now, what's great about this also,
00:48:21
◼
►
as I said, there's this API, you can integrate,
00:48:23
◼
►
like you can have it do things like integrate with Nest,
00:48:26
◼
►
if you have a Nest learning thermostat,
00:48:28
◼
►
you can have it automatically turn on your air conditioning
00:48:30
◼
►
or your heating as you drive home from work,
00:48:33
◼
►
so that your house is cool or hot when you get there,
00:48:35
◼
►
stuff like that.
00:48:36
◼
►
So all this, there's this online component,
00:48:38
◼
►
there's a software component,
00:48:39
◼
►
you would think there'd be like some kind of subscription fee
00:48:42
◼
►
or something, turns out you just buy the thing up front
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and that's it.
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So normally it's 100 bucks up front,
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and again, no subscription fees, no monthly fees.
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You just buy the automatic device and that's it.
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You buy it one time and you get all this stuff
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in perpetuity.
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So order it normally for 100 bucks.
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Now we have a special deal through our podcast link
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00:49:20
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Thank you very much to Automattic for sponsoring our
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show once again.
00:49:24
◼
►
So we should continue with iOS 9.
00:49:28
◼
►
And today was Federico Vittucci's birthday.
00:49:32
◼
►
It was Christmas.
00:49:33
◼
►
It was New Year's.
00:49:34
◼
►
It was everything to Federico.
00:49:37
◼
►
And I actually exchanged a couple of text
00:49:38
◼
►
messages with him.
00:49:39
◼
►
And suffice to say, he is beside himself.
00:49:41
◼
►
Did that cost him like a million dollars in roaming fees?
00:49:43
◼
►
I don't know.
00:49:44
◼
►
Well, thank goodness it was actually iMessages.
00:49:47
◼
►
But yeah, anyway, there's a lot of attention paid to the iPad.
00:49:51
◼
►
And a lot of features-- or maybe not that many,
00:49:54
◼
►
but important features to make using the iPad as a workhorse,
00:50:00
◼
►
a much easier and more productive device.
00:50:04
◼
►
The quick and easy ones, they seem
00:50:06
◼
►
to be doubling down on keyboard support, physical keyboard
00:50:09
◼
►
support. So they have an alt tab switcher or command tab. Oh, now I'm gonna get the email for that. Oh, God. Yeah, now I want to crawl in a hole. I'm just gonna
00:50:17
◼
►
crawl under Marco's bed real quick and cry. They have a command tab switcher. Yeah, that's not weird at all. They have a command tab switcher. I think they have more
00:50:26
◼
►
keyboard shortcuts. They kind of flashed a few things on screen and I didn't get a
00:50:29
◼
►
chance to catch them all. But what was really interesting is, and I want to play
00:50:33
◼
►
with it because it did not look terribly intuitive to me, but I suspect once I use
00:50:37
◼
►
it won't be so bad. Is the keyboard on iPad apparently is now a trackpad when
00:50:41
◼
►
you use more than one finger at a time? Did you guys kind of catch, I was trying
00:50:45
◼
►
to watch how that works and it was flying by way too quick for me to really
00:50:49
◼
►
understand. This is a feature of one of my favorite iOS apps that I really hope
00:50:52
◼
►
that Apple would bring everywhere, but I use it on my iPhone. Twitterific added a
00:50:57
◼
►
feature in a recent version where if you swipe, not on the keyboard, but if you
00:51:02
◼
►
swipe on the text area where you're composing the tweet, it will move the
00:51:05
◼
►
insertion point. Oh really? Yes. Oh I didn't know that. You should try it and once you get used to that you hate every other text field.
00:51:10
◼
►
This is the thing that has always annoyed me, it always annoys me about iOS
00:51:14
◼
►
overall the entire system. I understand why they do but any sort of gesture that requires for you to hold down for a certain period
00:51:23
◼
►
sort of just
00:51:25
◼
►
against my computer religion. Like
00:51:27
◼
►
all of the interface elements that I was brought up with
00:51:32
◼
►
React as fast as the computer can react to whatever it is you're doing right so you click on a window close widget the window closes
00:51:39
◼
►
Maybe there's an animation or whatever
00:51:41
◼
►
But the window closes right you double click as fast as you can double click it registers double click it happens
00:51:46
◼
►
But iOS because of the limited
00:51:48
◼
►
Interface had to have a bunch of things where you have to tap and hold and there's nothing you can do to make that
00:51:52
◼
►
Hold faster you don't hold for the minimum amount of time you don't get tap and hold and so many things on iOS require that
00:51:58
◼
►
Selecting text tap hold and that hold I mean
00:52:01
◼
►
Maybe it doesn't bother most people, but I feel like I'm waiting for
00:52:05
◼
►
The computer is waiting for me. I'm waiting for the computer. We're just waiting together in a pointless way, right?
00:52:10
◼
►
Moving the insertion point if I'm really frustrating if I want to put the insertion point at the beginning of the line
00:52:16
◼
►
I frequently tap. Oh, I'm too close to the edge of the digitizer didn't get it tap
00:52:20
◼
►
Oh, it's not still not going tap if I want to move left one character
00:52:23
◼
►
It requires a super precise tap on my giant meaty finger to move it left one character
00:52:28
◼
►
Whereas in Twitterrific, swipe left, the insertion point moves to left.
00:52:32
◼
►
Swipe left, left, left, left three characters as fast as I can swipe.
00:52:35
◼
►
Right, right, right, left, left, left, right.
00:52:37
◼
►
And so what they were showing was a different way to do the same thing.
00:52:40
◼
►
To say, look how fast I can move the cursor around.
00:52:42
◼
►
There's no way you could accurately move the cursor around as fast as they were demoing.
00:52:46
◼
►
And yeah, they're basically using the surface like a track pair, which is different than swiping,
00:52:49
◼
►
but it's like, it's like they, there's no mouse on iOS, they didn't talk about this,
00:52:54
◼
►
about this, but this is really darn close to controlling a cursor with a trackpad on
00:52:59
◼
►
an iOS device. Your finger is not the pointer. Your finger is moving around on this surface
00:53:04
◼
►
and another thing, let's call it the pointer, is moving around over there. And I love this
00:53:09
◼
►
feature in principle. I haven't tried it yet to see if the implementation is intuitive,
00:53:14
◼
►
but I love the limited version of this in Twitterrific and lots of other apps that have
00:53:18
◼
►
implemented this. I think Android has lots of versions of this with their various keyboards
00:53:22
◼
►
and interfaces.
00:53:23
◼
►
I hate tap and hold.
00:53:25
◼
►
Anything that lets me move the insertion point around,
00:53:27
◼
►
I'm really glad they're doing this.
00:53:29
◼
►
I really hope they also do it on iPhone.
00:53:31
◼
►
It wasn't clear to me which one of these features stay on iPad
00:53:33
◼
►
and which ones come to all iOS devices.
00:53:35
◼
►
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was iPad only.
00:53:37
◼
►
Yeah, that's what I thought.
00:53:38
◼
►
For this release.
00:53:38
◼
►
Maybe next year.
00:53:39
◼
►
Some things were.
00:53:40
◼
►
And some things-- like, I think you're right about the trackpad.
00:53:43
◼
►
But I think some other aspects of the new keyboard
00:53:45
◼
►
were either shown or mentioned to be available in both.
00:53:48
◼
►
Anyway, we'll install the babies and we'll find out.
00:53:51
◼
►
But I think there is no reason that a lot of these features should be limited to iPad.
00:53:55
◼
►
Because again, the place where I use the little swipey feature the most is on an iPhone app.
00:53:59
◼
►
With the trackpad area, it might be like, well, you need to have a big area to move
00:54:02
◼
►
around or they don't want you to put two fingers down.
00:54:05
◼
►
It wasn't one of the gestures, like a two finger thing.
00:54:07
◼
►
Like how do I find a place for two fingers on my iPhone thing?
00:54:10
◼
►
But I'm like, please, Apple, we need, if anything, you need even more sort of an easy way to
00:54:15
◼
►
move the cursor around and do text selections in a tiny little iPhone screen.
00:54:19
◼
►
It's so much harder to get your fingers in there and just get a six plus. Oh god still too small. Yeah
00:54:24
◼
►
Mike was wrong
00:54:26
◼
►
Then the other big feature that they talked about for the iPad is multi like real honest-to-goodness
00:54:32
◼
►
Multitasking in the sense of multiple things on the screen. Don't call windows
00:54:36
◼
►
yeah, they're not windows right but but multiple apps on the screen at the same time and
00:54:41
◼
►
Remind me the terminology because I was paying close attention and it in because I haven't played with this yet
00:54:47
◼
►
it hasn't really sank in.
00:54:48
◼
►
So there's some mechanism where you can like swipe in an app
00:54:53
◼
►
temporarily, but you can't interact with it,
00:54:55
◼
►
is that correct?
00:54:56
◼
►
- No, so there's the slide in or slide over,
00:54:58
◼
►
whatever it's called, where it's almost like
00:55:00
◼
►
notification center where it just kinda like literally
00:55:04
◼
►
like you can swipe from the right and you can slide in
00:55:07
◼
►
an iPhone width app over top of the running iPad app
00:55:12
◼
►
that's running full screen.
00:55:13
◼
►
or you can actually shrink the current running app
00:55:18
◼
►
and actually have them both side by side at the same time.
00:55:21
◼
►
So if you only do the slide over thing,
00:55:24
◼
►
the slide over thing,
00:55:25
◼
►
first of all that works on more iPads.
00:55:27
◼
►
That works on your RetinaPad Mini.
00:55:30
◼
►
- Hi Steven.
00:55:32
◼
►
- And that works on most iPads above the A5 CPU.
00:55:37
◼
►
So anything with a Retina screen
00:55:40
◼
►
that isn't an iPad 3 basically.
00:55:42
◼
►
and then if you have the iPad Air 2,
00:55:46
◼
►
only the most recent full-sized iPad,
00:55:48
◼
►
then that one is the only one that can do
00:55:51
◼
►
actually running two apps indefinitely.
00:55:54
◼
►
'Cause the other mode where you just slide one in
00:55:56
◼
►
temporarily, then the background app becomes unavailable
00:56:00
◼
►
until you slide that app out of the way again.
00:56:02
◼
►
So I think that's mostly, I mean,
00:56:05
◼
►
it might be a power user price segmentation issue partly,
00:56:09
◼
►
but I think it's probably also just RAM concerns
00:56:12
◼
►
of keeping two apps active.
00:56:14
◼
►
Is it RAM, though?
00:56:15
◼
►
I was going to guess that it was CPU.
00:56:16
◼
►
Because at first I was thinking RAM,
00:56:18
◼
►
but then I was thinking, it can't be RAM,
00:56:20
◼
►
because all those same apps are expected to run on machines
00:56:24
◼
►
with one gig of RAM.
00:56:25
◼
►
That's true.
00:56:26
◼
►
And so if it's CPU, I could think of, well--
00:56:30
◼
►
because it's not limited, I don't think.
00:56:32
◼
►
Is it limited?
00:56:33
◼
►
You have to do special support for the splitter?
00:56:35
◼
►
Or is there a limit on what kind of apps
00:56:38
◼
►
you can put in a split pane?
00:56:40
◼
►
I don't think there is.
00:56:41
◼
►
Either way, what I was thinking of is,
00:56:43
◼
►
if say you wanted to split between two games,
00:56:45
◼
►
and both games use every ounce of computing and GPU power,
00:56:50
◼
►
the iPad Air 2 may be the only thing
00:56:52
◼
►
that can run two apps simultaneously
00:56:54
◼
►
with acceptable performance if one or both of those apps
00:56:57
◼
►
are very demanding.
00:56:58
◼
►
- Yeah, and this might be, if it is CPU relevant,
00:57:03
◼
►
this might be why the iPad Air 2 shipped with this third core
00:57:07
◼
►
that they really underplayed at the launch.
00:57:09
◼
►
They didn't even mention it, I don't think.
00:57:11
◼
►
And the iPad Air 2 has had ridiculous performance
00:57:15
◼
►
compared to other iOS devices.
00:57:16
◼
►
It's just so much faster.
00:57:17
◼
►
And here's the thing.
00:57:18
◼
►
You're like, well, so what?
00:57:20
◼
►
They sell Macs all the time with wimpy CPUs.
00:57:21
◼
►
And it's like, well, if it's slow, it's slow.
00:57:23
◼
►
But there's the expectation in an iOS device
00:57:26
◼
►
that if an app works, it should always work.
00:57:30
◼
►
And if it works, and then you split the screen,
00:57:33
◼
►
and all of a sudden it gets super slow and crappy,
00:57:35
◼
►
you're like, oh, well, this stinks.
00:57:38
◼
►
On the Mac, you're used to it.
00:57:40
◼
►
The expectation on the Mac is if you're
00:57:41
◼
►
doing a bunch of other crap, one of your apps
00:57:43
◼
►
could get worse because you're doing a bunch of other crap.
00:57:44
◼
►
But on iOS, it's like, well, it either runs or it doesn't run.
00:57:47
◼
►
It's more like a game console.
00:57:48
◼
►
It either works or it doesn't work.
00:57:50
◼
►
And to have an app that seems to work,
00:57:52
◼
►
but then you bring in a different application
00:57:54
◼
►
and a splitter pane and run them both at the same time,
00:57:56
◼
►
and then it doesn't work as well,
00:57:57
◼
►
like the frame rate suffers or the sound-- sound's probably
00:58:00
◼
►
not going to stutter.
00:58:01
◼
►
But whatever the working versus nonworking state is,
00:58:04
◼
►
the thing that's trying to keep the expectation is, look,
00:58:07
◼
►
if your app runs, it will continue to run,
00:58:09
◼
►
even if there's another one running right next to it.
00:58:12
◼
►
It's like an appliance.
00:58:13
◼
►
They just don't want it to--
00:58:15
◼
►
and you're right, it could just be market segmentation,
00:58:16
◼
►
and they want to sell more iPad Air 2s, whatever.
00:58:18
◼
►
I'm looking for a technical reason, basically.
00:58:20
◼
►
- And honestly, it's probably some of both.
00:58:23
◼
►
They do want to sell more iPad Air 2s.
00:58:25
◼
►
They do want to just sell more new iPads, period.
00:58:27
◼
►
Because one of the biggest problems they have
00:58:29
◼
►
for iPad sales is that old iPads continue
00:58:31
◼
►
to be pretty useful.
00:58:33
◼
►
- People could be using them.
00:58:33
◼
►
They don't break enough.
00:58:34
◼
►
- Right, exactly.
00:58:36
◼
►
A lot of people still use like iPad 3s, iPad 2s,
00:58:39
◼
►
and they're fine.
00:58:41
◼
►
So they might get a little slower over time,
00:58:44
◼
►
but there aren't a lot of compelling reasons
00:58:46
◼
►
pushing people to upgrade their iPads.
00:58:48
◼
►
And this, if you've been frustrated by the limitations
00:58:53
◼
►
of trying to get quote, work done on the iPad,
00:58:57
◼
►
a lot of people are gonna look at this and say,
00:58:58
◼
►
"Oh, well, if I get the iPad Air 2
00:59:00
◼
►
"or whatever new iPads come out this fall presumably,
00:59:03
◼
►
"then I'll be able to work better."
00:59:05
◼
►
So that will drive sales, no question.
00:59:07
◼
►
- The one thing they didn't show
00:59:08
◼
►
that I really thought they were gonna show,
00:59:09
◼
►
at least maybe they did and I blacked out
00:59:11
◼
►
during this period, you guys can tell me,
00:59:13
◼
►
they had the thing side by side and they were like,
00:59:14
◼
►
"Look, and if you have a link in a Notes app
00:59:16
◼
►
"and Safari's on the left, I can tap the link
00:59:18
◼
►
"and it loads right in Safari."
00:59:19
◼
►
Like, you know, you didn't have to switch apps,
00:59:21
◼
►
you have everything in context.
00:59:22
◼
►
I really wanted them to grab something
00:59:24
◼
►
and drag it from one of those panes into the other.
00:59:27
◼
►
I really wanted that to happen.
00:59:28
◼
►
They didn't do it, right?
00:59:29
◼
►
- Next year.
00:59:30
◼
►
- Thought they did, didn't they,
00:59:31
◼
►
weren't they in the Notes app
00:59:32
◼
►
and they took like a link from Safari into--
00:59:35
◼
►
Or was that on the Mac?
00:59:36
◼
►
See, that's what I'm not sure.
00:59:37
◼
►
I'm not confident that it was on an iPad.
00:59:39
◼
►
You're talking about Federico Viticci, who is a big fan of using the iPad as his main
00:59:46
◼
►
And I've always been talking about the iPad Pro.
00:59:48
◼
►
The iPad is a better computing device for regular people because you can throw it in
00:59:51
◼
►
front of somebody and they can do useful work in it much easier than if you threw a Mac
00:59:54
◼
►
or a PC in front of them.
00:59:55
◼
►
So this is the future of computing.
00:59:57
◼
►
But if it's going to be the future of computing, it needs more capabilities.
01:00:00
◼
►
And one of those capabilities is like, what if I'm just assembling a bunch of stuff?
01:00:04
◼
►
I'm trying to make a document out of a bunch of bits and pieces. It's just a pain in the
01:00:07
◼
►
butt if you have to switch the whole, you know, your entire contents of your skin is
01:00:10
◼
►
replaced and something else is replaced. And like two things they announced today. One,
01:00:13
◼
►
the iCloud Drive app and two side by side things starts to give you a workflow that
01:00:18
◼
►
looks a little bit more like, hey, I can pull from here, pull from there, assemble a big
01:00:21
◼
►
document made of media and a bunch of other places, open this up in an editor application,
01:00:26
◼
►
tweak it, drag the resulting version into this. Like an iPad Pro now has an even more
01:00:31
◼
►
reason to exist because, I mean, maybe you don't get three splitter panes, but the two
01:00:35
◼
►
splitters that you get can be bigger and better, and it can have a bigger CPU to have more
01:00:39
◼
►
stuff going on. It's not like they're reinventing the Mac on the iPad, they're trying to give
01:00:43
◼
►
you the capabilities that you have on the Mac without the complexity, without as much
01:00:48
◼
►
as the complexity.
01:00:49
◼
►
Well, and also, you know, with the better hardware keyboard support, you can do all
01:00:53
◼
►
these things and do them more efficiently with a hardware keyboard, which is also appealing.
01:00:59
◼
►
It was a bummer to me, though, as a pretty big fan of the iPad Mini. It was a bummer
01:01:02
◼
►
that as it exists today, there is no iPad Mini that supports the--I think they're calling
01:01:08
◼
►
it app pinning, which is like the split screen--with split screen two apps running simultaneously
01:01:13
◼
►
set up. And I would hope and assume that this fall, when the iPad Mini--what are we up to,
01:01:18
◼
►
four, something like that?
01:01:19
◼
►
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:20
◼
►
>> When the next iPad Mini comes out, that maybe it would be supported. But I also wonder
01:01:24
◼
►
if maybe they'll say, well, this screen is too physically small to support two windows
01:01:30
◼
►
at once. So no, this is only a full-size iPad thing. And even though I only use my iPad
01:01:34
◼
►
for goofing off 99% of the time, I still love my iPad Mini. And I wasn't planning to go
01:01:40
◼
►
back earlier in the conversation, I wasn't sitting here now planning on upgrading to
01:01:44
◼
►
the next one until I found a reason to do so. And today, I might have found the reason
01:01:48
◼
►
to do so. So I'm a perfect example of someone who might have just been pushed into upgrading,
01:01:53
◼
►
who may not have otherwise.
01:01:55
◼
►
And the picture-in-picture thing, I think, is another thing where it doesn't require
01:01:58
◼
►
-- because you would assume video playback, you know, there's dedicated hardware for that
01:02:01
◼
►
and everything.
01:02:02
◼
►
It could be done even by wimpy devices.
01:02:04
◼
►
Even that is like, well, what if, you know, I'm using the MLB app, but I want to also
01:02:08
◼
►
be like reading email or scrolling through Twitter?
01:02:11
◼
►
Picture-in-picture.
01:02:12
◼
►
Throw a little sports window up in the corner and now you can do two things.
01:02:15
◼
►
That really changes the game for whole classes of applications where you're like -- people
01:02:20
◼
►
will go away from the iPad visit. They think of it as a single tasking device, even if
01:02:23
◼
►
multiple things are going on. Just the ability to have a little video thing running in the
01:02:28
◼
►
corner, even if it's just like a YouTube video or whatever, just to have that off in the
01:02:31
◼
►
corner and to be able to do other things really changes the game on the iPad. Now it's not
01:02:36
◼
►
your Mac, but it's like going from zero to one. It's a huge difference, right?
01:02:41
◼
►
I couldn't agree more, because on the plane on the way here, I was trying to watch an
01:02:46
◼
►
episode of Top Gear and then I kept getting text messages from like either
01:02:50
◼
►
you guys or Aaron or something like that and in that situation because I'm in a
01:02:55
◼
►
plane I can only have one device on the internet at a time because that's the
01:02:59
◼
►
way plane Wi-Fi works. No it's not. Go ahead. Well that okay. You gotta buy the all-day pass from
01:03:04
◼
►
from GoGo before you're on the plane and then you can sign up all your devices.
01:03:07
◼
►
What? Yeah. Mind blown. Well anyway I had thought that I could only have one
01:03:12
◼
►
device online at a time. And so what ended up happening was because I
01:03:16
◼
►
couldn't effectively watch this video without being interrupted constantly, I
01:03:20
◼
►
said, "You know what? Screw it. I'll take the iPad with the nicer keyboard that's
01:03:23
◼
►
easier to type on. I'll take that off the internet and I'll put my phone on the
01:03:27
◼
►
internet." And I had them both sitting on my tray table like a lunatic because
01:03:30
◼
►
that was the most efficient way for me to do everything I wanted at once, which
01:03:34
◼
►
was watch this episode of Top Gear while also talking to you guys or Aaron or
01:03:37
◼
►
whomever. And if I had picture-in-picture, that would have made this so
01:03:41
◼
►
much better and easier to deal with.
01:03:43
◼
►
- Or if you had a Mac, if you had a Mac,
01:03:44
◼
►
you just have the movie window in the background
01:03:47
◼
►
and your message window, like, you know,
01:03:49
◼
►
and you could arrange them however you wanted.
01:03:50
◼
►
Picture in picture is a little mini version of that.
01:03:52
◼
►
- Well, what's interesting about this too is like,
01:03:54
◼
►
this is major features that are iPad only,
01:03:57
◼
►
possibly big iPad only, that the iPhones can't do
01:04:01
◼
►
and probably won't get if I had to take a guess.
01:04:03
◼
►
And so that, I think, like, they really have to do something
01:04:08
◼
►
to try to give more people a reason to use iPads
01:04:11
◼
►
and use them more often over just,
01:04:14
◼
►
oh, I'll just get a big phone.
01:04:15
◼
►
And from Apple's point of view,
01:04:17
◼
►
from our point of view, we might just say,
01:04:19
◼
►
well, just make the phones better and we'll deal with it.
01:04:20
◼
►
But a lot of people, they're going to now be pushed
01:04:24
◼
►
into either using their existing iPads more
01:04:28
◼
►
or getting new iPads.
01:04:29
◼
►
And from Apple's point of view,
01:04:31
◼
►
that makes sense as a goal, as something they need to do.
01:04:35
◼
►
So we'll see what happens.
01:04:36
◼
►
I think what they're doing on the iPad is smart.
01:04:39
◼
►
I don't know if it will turn around the kind of like plateau of usefulness. The
01:04:44
◼
►
iPad seems to have hit for many people. I don't know, but I guess I will tell. I
01:04:50
◼
►
think you really have to. I think Apple's waiting of us, so you really
01:04:52
◼
►
have to age out the old ones like they're just like come on guys get rid
01:04:55
◼
►
of stop using those things. Just they want the old devices to go away and
01:05:00
◼
►
like I said, there's no differentiator like they don't. They don't know what
01:05:04
◼
►
the product upgrade cycle is in the iPad because the product is too young and now
01:05:07
◼
►
they're trying to hasten the demise of these older devices
01:05:10
◼
►
because they're holding back the progress of the platform,
01:05:13
◼
►
as Apple used to so often talk about at WWDC.
01:05:16
◼
►
And this is saying, all right, we are moving forward.
01:05:20
◼
►
You can't have these nice things.
01:05:22
◼
►
We really hope these nice things are compelling to customers
01:05:24
◼
►
because that's the only way we'll move things forward.
01:05:27
◼
►
Although in another very interesting major way,
01:05:30
◼
►
the new version of iOS doesn't age out any old devices.
01:05:35
◼
►
And they're still selling A5 devices.
01:05:37
◼
►
This fifth-gen iPod Touch is up there on the supported thing.
01:05:39
◼
►
It's like, are you kidding me?
01:05:41
◼
►
That's what I think about-- that's why--
01:05:43
◼
►
I mean, you mentioned, why can't they bring split screen?
01:05:46
◼
►
If you're making a thing, and you're like,
01:05:48
◼
►
I want this game to work on all the things.
01:05:50
◼
►
I'm going to make this game work on an A5.
01:05:52
◼
►
It's probably so hard for you to get that game to work on an A5
01:05:54
◼
►
that they said, oh, by the way, you get half of an A5,
01:05:56
◼
►
because they get split screen.
01:05:57
◼
►
You're like, oh, well, forget it.
01:05:59
◼
►
I can't support that at all.
01:06:00
◼
►
They should just get rid of the A5-class devices.
01:06:03
◼
►
But yeah, it's better to use the,
01:06:06
◼
►
I guess they're trying to use the carrot here
01:06:07
◼
►
and say you don't get these fancy features on the iPad
01:06:10
◼
►
at the very least.
01:06:11
◼
►
On the phone stuff, they seem to have been limiting
01:06:13
◼
►
themselves to features that can live on A5 class devices,
01:06:17
◼
►
albeit in sort of abbreviated form.
01:06:20
◼
►
But I don't know.
01:06:21
◼
►
- Well, but to go back just a quick step,
01:06:23
◼
►
they did mention in one of the two presentations
01:06:26
◼
►
we've seen today that coming soon,
01:06:28
◼
►
you can target 64-bit devices only,
01:06:30
◼
►
which is well after the A5, right?
01:06:31
◼
►
- That's A7 and up.
01:06:32
◼
►
- Right, so you could--
01:06:34
◼
►
- Or it's an A6, I forget.
01:06:35
◼
►
- I don't know, it's something that's not an A5.
01:06:38
◼
►
- I think it's A7.
01:06:39
◼
►
- But regardless, so you can choose to target an app
01:06:42
◼
►
only at 64-bit devices, which is sort of kind of a way
01:06:46
◼
►
to get around this, oh my god, I really don't wanna
01:06:48
◼
►
support the A5 problem.
01:06:50
◼
►
But either way, it was, definitely some great advances
01:06:53
◼
►
for the iPad, I kinda wish we had a live camera
01:06:56
◼
►
on Federico while all this was happening.
01:06:57
◼
►
It was like having a live camera on you
01:06:59
◼
►
when Swift was announced last year.
01:07:02
◼
►
would have been amazing, but no, they're both,
01:07:06
◼
►
everything sounds really good,
01:07:07
◼
►
I'm really looking forward to trying.
01:07:08
◼
►
- Unlike Swift, though, we knew that the splitting
01:07:10
◼
►
the screen stuff existed in iOS 8,
01:07:12
◼
►
like we talked about in the last show,
01:07:13
◼
►
so Federico couldn't have been totally shocked
01:07:15
◼
►
that it was coming. - True, true, true.
01:07:16
◼
►
- But it was nice to, it wasn't just the splitting screen,
01:07:19
◼
►
there was more stuff on top of that
01:07:20
◼
►
and the keyboard changes, so lots of iPad love this time.
01:07:23
◼
►
- Yep, speaking of Swift, Swift 2.0 was a thing,
01:07:26
◼
►
and the most fascinating and interesting thing
01:07:32
◼
►
to me about Swift 2.0 is that it not only is Swift 2.0 going to be open-sourced later
01:07:38
◼
►
this year, but A, the reaction to that from the audience was stunningly enthusiastic.
01:07:46
◼
►
Not that I expected people to be like, "Oh, woo," but people were like really amped up
01:07:51
◼
►
about it, like surprisingly amped up about it. I don't know, what did you guys think?
01:07:55
◼
►
>> I think that makes sense because I think as developers, developers in the modern age
01:07:59
◼
►
know that if you're going to make a language,
01:08:02
◼
►
that language is always going to suck at some degree
01:08:05
◼
►
if it's proprietary.
01:08:07
◼
►
If it's a single company language,
01:08:09
◼
►
like everyone, developers know, you need to have an ecosystem.
01:08:13
◼
►
And the best-- for languages especially,
01:08:14
◼
►
like for APIs, frameworks, whatever, but for languages,
01:08:17
◼
►
this just kind of accepted that if your language is going
01:08:20
◼
►
to be worth a damn long term, it needs to not be
01:08:23
◼
►
your own little private toy.
01:08:24
◼
►
You need to open it up, and it needs
01:08:26
◼
►
to be available to everyone.
01:08:27
◼
►
It needs to not just be an Apple-specific thing.
01:08:30
◼
►
Having more people using your language benefits the language.
01:08:33
◼
►
Apple can still steer the ship and be in charge of it
01:08:37
◼
►
because they write the most code and all the other stuff.
01:08:39
◼
►
But WebKit is a great example, and that's not even a language.
01:08:42
◼
►
For programming languages, programmers feel really nervous
01:08:45
◼
►
about the idea that-- even though Objective C is like,
01:08:47
◼
►
well, is that open kind of, sort of, but Apple's been advancing
01:08:51
◼
►
and no one else-- it makes everyone feel better.
01:08:54
◼
►
In the same way that I think the core OS,
01:08:56
◼
►
that having Darwin be open source, which people forget about now and it seems not important,
01:08:59
◼
►
like those are developer comfort factors. The core part of the U.S. is open source was
01:09:07
◼
►
a big comfort factor when OS X was new, and Swift doing open source now I think makes
01:09:10
◼
►
people feel a lot better about Swift.
01:09:13
◼
►
Steve McLaughlin Yeah.
01:09:14
◼
►
David Lassner So it is important to clarify though what part
01:09:16
◼
►
is open source.
01:09:17
◼
►
Steve McLaughlin Well, and that's the other thing I was going
01:09:19
◼
►
to bring up. It's funny you say that because they said they're open sourcing the language,
01:09:22
◼
►
but they also said they're open sourcing some of the frameworks.
01:09:25
◼
►
Well, they said standard library.
01:09:26
◼
►
What do you mean by standard library?
01:09:27
◼
►
I'm sorry, you're right.
01:09:28
◼
►
The things were like int and array.
01:09:31
◼
►
That's the standard library.
01:09:32
◼
►
Yeah, like the Swift string and array classes.
01:09:33
◼
►
There is no Swift without the standard library.
01:09:35
◼
►
So them saying we're open sourcing Swift
01:09:37
◼
►
and the standard library, that's just like saying Swift.
01:09:39
◼
►
Other frameworks?
01:09:40
◼
►
I mean, some parts of core foundation
01:09:41
◼
►
already are open source, but that's not Swift.
01:09:44
◼
►
What else is there to Swift?
01:09:45
◼
►
Are there any Swift only frameworks?
01:09:47
◼
►
I don't know at this point.
01:09:49
◼
►
I don't think so.
01:09:50
◼
►
Yeah, I didn't think so either.
01:09:51
◼
►
So all there is is the language and the standard library.
01:09:55
◼
►
and then calling into a bunch of Objective-C frameworks.
01:09:58
◼
►
Many of which are closed source and will probably
01:10:00
◼
►
remain that way.
01:10:01
◼
►
So I think it's the same deal with Darwin.
01:10:04
◼
►
Like the language-- the compiler was already open source.
01:10:06
◼
►
The language, the standard library,
01:10:08
◼
►
having the Linux port is basically
01:10:10
◼
►
saying you want to write a program in Linux?
01:10:13
◼
►
You want to use Swift to do it?
01:10:15
◼
►
Oh, but wait, I can't call into NSURLSession?
01:10:17
◼
►
Of course you can't.
01:10:18
◼
►
That's not on Linux.
01:10:20
◼
►
And if they make a bunch of frameworks only
01:10:24
◼
►
available to Swift, there will be Apple frameworks that are closed, just like the Apple closed
01:10:27
◼
►
source frameworks. But Core Foundation is the best example because most of it is closed,
01:10:30
◼
►
but there is a version of the CF Lite or whatever that's part of Darwin. The same thing with
01:10:35
◼
►
the rest of OS X. A lot of OS X and the Core OS and everything are open, but then some
01:10:40
◼
►
parts of it are proprietary like the graphics drivers or whatever that have proprietary
01:10:44
◼
►
stuff from NV and ATI. So I think this is exactly as open source as everyone was asking
01:10:49
◼
►
for Swift to be. And that's why everyone applauded. Because Apple has been so clearly saying,
01:10:53
◼
►
are staking the future of our platform on this language.
01:10:56
◼
►
And it just makes everyone feel so much better
01:10:58
◼
►
to have it open.
01:10:59
◼
►
Now, do you reckon that we are soon
01:11:01
◼
►
to find Swift taking over for Node or the JavaScript framework
01:11:05
◼
►
du jour of the minute, and that suddenly everything server-side
01:11:09
◼
►
is going to be Swiftified?
01:11:11
◼
►
I mean, that's a lot of things people talk about.
01:11:14
◼
►
Oh, you know, it could be Apple's Dart.
01:11:16
◼
►
Their Safari could run Swift native and translate it
01:11:19
◼
►
to JavaScript.
01:11:20
◼
►
Any excuse to try to get rid of JavaScript.
01:11:23
◼
►
why can we use Swift instead?
01:11:24
◼
►
Or I can use Swift on the client side and the server side.
01:11:27
◼
►
And the client side would be a browser,
01:11:29
◼
►
or it would be a native app, and you
01:11:30
◼
►
could run Swift on the server.
01:11:31
◼
►
And I could have shared libraries between them.
01:11:33
◼
►
We're a long way from that.
01:11:34
◼
►
That's what open sourcing allows to happen.
01:11:37
◼
►
If it's worth a damn as a server-side language,
01:11:39
◼
►
some person on Linux will try to use it, and we'll see.
01:11:41
◼
►
Maybe they'll make libraries for it.
01:11:43
◼
►
And those libraries-- that's the whole thing this opens up.
01:11:45
◼
►
If you want to make a library to make server-side web
01:11:48
◼
►
applications with Swift, you could do that now.
01:11:50
◼
►
Because you wouldn't be like, well, it's great.
01:11:52
◼
►
You've just got to use Max as your server.
01:11:53
◼
►
like that's not going to happen, right?
01:11:54
◼
►
Now that it is an open language, people
01:11:56
◼
►
can try anything and everything with Swift.
01:11:58
◼
►
And the community of programmers will find out
01:12:01
◼
►
what Swift is good for and what Swift is not good for.
01:12:03
◼
►
And if a bunch of people made a big library,
01:12:05
◼
►
like some sort of server-side framework for writing web apps,
01:12:09
◼
►
and it was awesome, it would live and die on its own merits.
01:12:12
◼
►
But it is no longer limited by the fact
01:12:14
◼
►
that Swift is confined to the Apple world.
01:12:16
◼
►
Yeah, I do think, though, that web programmers who
01:12:19
◼
►
are hoping to use this as a server-side language-- which I
01:12:21
◼
►
would love to look into that, honestly. Like, that would give me a lot more reason to learn
01:12:25
◼
►
Swift if I could use it in both places. But I think people like me are going to be disappointed
01:12:31
◼
►
if, you know, if we try--if we think that this is going to enable us to make web apps
01:12:35
◼
►
in Swift, like, you know, this fall or tomorrow or whatever, and we try it and it turns out
01:12:40
◼
►
that, you know, the lack of all of the frameworks is a bit of a problem.
01:12:44
◼
►
>> Yeah, because you would use--you would use all the sort of the frameworks for dealing
01:12:48
◼
►
with URLs and making web requests.
01:12:50
◼
►
And it's like, oh, well, that's not there.
01:12:52
◼
►
Well, then what do I get?
01:12:53
◼
►
Like, what could you share?
01:12:54
◼
►
If you wanted to say, I want to have a bunch of code
01:12:56
◼
►
that I share between my web app and my iOS app.
01:13:00
◼
►
And you think, well, is there any part of your iOS app
01:13:02
◼
►
that doesn't call any Cocoa APIs that are Apple's?
01:13:05
◼
►
Probably not, unless you're doing a lot of math
01:13:07
◼
►
or unless you've implemented your entire data storage layer
01:13:10
◼
►
And not using most of the foundation collection classes
01:13:13
◼
►
and stuff like that, like all the stuff that either won't be
01:13:15
◼
►
open source or--
01:13:16
◼
►
You can use all the arrays and dictionaries and stuff
01:13:20
◼
►
that are native to Swift and that
01:13:22
◼
►
are bridged to the other stuff.
01:13:23
◼
►
But yeah, this is just step two in a long potential road
01:13:28
◼
►
to Swift being more useful than it currently is.
01:13:31
◼
►
But this is an essential first step to say, it's open.
01:13:34
◼
►
Now people can see what the hell it's good for.
01:13:37
◼
►
And can submit bug fixes and can see the source
01:13:39
◼
►
to try to debug their own problems.
01:13:41
◼
►
Because it is a young language, and there
01:13:42
◼
►
are going to be weird things.
01:13:43
◼
►
And it's great when you have the source to figure out
01:13:45
◼
►
what the hell's going on under the covers.
01:13:47
◼
►
And who knows how many submissions they'll get.
01:13:49
◼
►
Maybe Google will start using it and then
01:13:51
◼
►
make their own fork of it and give it a different name.
01:13:54
◼
►
I don't see that happening.
01:13:55
◼
►
Yeah, if they did start using it,
01:13:56
◼
►
they would definitely fork it within a year.
01:13:58
◼
►
Well, it's like the WebKit example, where it's open,
01:14:00
◼
►
and then they would kind of work together.
01:14:02
◼
►
And it was like, you know what?
01:14:03
◼
►
We can't even work together on this.
01:14:04
◼
►
So never mind.
01:14:05
◼
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I don't see this happening, because the Swift is clearly
01:14:08
◼
►
Apple's baby.
01:14:08
◼
►
But yeah, this is more of a feel good moment
01:14:12
◼
►
and a opening of many doors.
01:14:14
◼
►
and we don't know how many of those doors
01:14:15
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►
will just lead to blind alleys or bottomless pits.
01:14:19
◼
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- It's true.
01:14:20
◼
►
Now, but anything else on iOS 9
01:14:22
◼
►
that's worth discussing at this moment?
01:14:24
◼
►
I don't think there is.
01:14:25
◼
►
- Well, I think after the break,
01:14:27
◼
►
we should talk about Notes and News.
01:14:30
◼
►
- Oh, you're right, you're right.
01:14:31
◼
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Yep, sorry, I forgot about that.
01:14:32
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- But first, let's do our final sponsor of the week.
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- Excellent, so now Marky, you reminded me,
01:18:32
◼
►
we should probably talk about news.
01:18:35
◼
►
- Yeah, so first of all, I honestly,
01:18:37
◼
►
I'm looking forward to the Notes app.
01:18:39
◼
►
I think it looks pretty nice.
01:18:41
◼
►
- That's true.
01:18:42
◼
►
- I'm not a heavy Notes user.
01:18:45
◼
►
And part of it is because I've never liked
01:18:48
◼
►
any of the solutions that can be synced
01:18:51
◼
►
between Mac and iOS.
01:18:53
◼
►
And I do so much work on the Mac that,
01:18:55
◼
►
I would love to use Vesper by our friend John Gruber,
01:18:59
◼
►
but I've just never gotten into it
01:19:01
◼
►
because they don't have a Mac version yet.
01:19:04
◼
►
And what I see from the new Notes app
01:19:07
◼
►
looks pretty compelling, it looks really interesting
01:19:09
◼
►
because what they've done with it
01:19:11
◼
►
is they've made it this complete,
01:19:14
◼
►
it looks, you know, it's a complete rich text editor.
01:19:16
◼
►
It's almost like a word processor, but like, you know, modern.
01:19:19
◼
►
- Right, right.
01:19:20
◼
►
- And not made for print.
01:19:21
◼
►
Like it has all these like rich formatting styles
01:19:23
◼
►
you can apply to things, it supports inline images,
01:19:25
◼
►
inline media, they had this cool thing
01:19:27
◼
►
where you can like, you can convert a list of lines
01:19:29
◼
►
into a checklist and then check them off.
01:19:31
◼
►
So it has like this embedded checklist functionality.
01:19:33
◼
►
A lot of these things that we see from apps like,
01:19:37
◼
►
oh man, what's Jesse Grossjean's app that,
01:19:40
◼
►
it's like a combination of task paper and something--
01:19:44
◼
►
- I've got nothing.
01:19:45
◼
►
- I have to look it up.
01:19:46
◼
►
We'll put it in the show notes if we can find it.
01:19:47
◼
►
But there are so many, so much rich functionality
01:19:52
◼
►
that's in this app that appears to be there
01:19:55
◼
►
on iOS and on Mac.
01:19:57
◼
►
And it all syncs.
01:19:59
◼
►
There were rumors that notes used to be synced via IMAP
01:20:03
◼
►
with your mail account, which was a terrible idea that never worked.
01:20:05
◼
►
>> That's the thing I tweeted. Is this still IMAP back then? I think it might be. I think
01:20:09
◼
►
it still is because on, I think on my wife's computer, she doesn't use Apple's mail stuff
01:20:15
◼
►
and I think every time I try to enable notes, it's like, oh, you need an email address.
01:20:19
◼
►
>> Well, but that's the way it is today. And at one point, they flashed up a slide, it
01:20:23
◼
►
might have been this afternoon, where it was all the bits and pieces of iCloud and Notes
01:20:29
◼
►
was there and what I'm not sure is like if it's IMAP does that classify as still
01:20:35
◼
►
being like like the thing the fact that it's IMAP is two bad things one I'm
01:20:39
◼
►
implementations are weird and flaky and two you have this weird dependency where
01:20:44
◼
►
you can't use notes in a synced manner unless you have an email account it's
01:20:48
◼
►
like how are those two things related in any way and you'd have to know well it's
01:20:51
◼
►
using IMAP as the back end which is gross and has always bothered me but the
01:20:54
◼
►
reason I use notes is exactly what Marco said because there's a Mac app and an
01:20:58
◼
►
iOS app and I use it in both places. And so I use Notes. I just read my toaster notes
01:21:04
◼
►
off of the Notes app. And I really do edit those notes in two places. I start entering
01:21:09
◼
►
them when I'm on my iPod. I fix them up a little bit when I'm on my computer. The thing
01:21:12
◼
►
that annoys me about Notes is that they didn't -- I like the fact that it has all these new
01:21:16
◼
►
features but they didn't demo the one feature I really wanted. And the thing that always
01:21:19
◼
►
drives me nuts when I'm trying to do any kind of notes in iOS is I find myself looking in
01:21:23
◼
►
in vain for the tab key on the iOS keyboard because I want an outline view. And they did
01:21:30
◼
►
show bulleted lists and they showed Rick's text and they showed headings, they did not
01:21:33
◼
►
show outlines. And I find a lot of the notes I make are outlining. Like in TextEdit it
01:21:40
◼
►
has, I think this is held over from the next days, if people don't know, and I think I
01:21:43
◼
►
mentioned this a few times, if you are in TextEdit on the Mac and you hit Option + Tab,
01:21:46
◼
►
it suddenly goes into this weird pseudo-outlining, indenty, rich text mode thing that I use a
01:21:52
◼
►
a lot. It's not great. A real outlining app like on the Outliner or something would be
01:21:55
◼
►
way better. But I want something that's sort of available everywhere, supported by the
01:22:01
◼
►
system. So there's still stuff for Notes to add in the next version, but I'm happy for
01:22:07
◼
►
a bunch of additional features. And I'll be super happy if this gets off the IMAP backend
01:22:11
◼
►
and goes on to the new CloudKit backend for real, like the native, you know, CloudKit
01:22:16
◼
►
document type stuff instead of IMAP, because that just seems silly to me. And I don't know
01:22:22
◼
►
maybe it's irrational that I don't trust it as much,
01:22:24
◼
►
but I just don't.
01:22:25
◼
►
And I've had many cases in Notes
01:22:27
◼
►
where Notes suddenly get duplicated
01:22:28
◼
►
and I have to delete the duplicates
01:22:29
◼
►
and silly stuff like that,
01:22:30
◼
►
and I'm hoping it will be better with a proper backend.
01:22:32
◼
►
- Yeah, and I have to imagine,
01:22:34
◼
►
like I don't think they would have done
01:22:35
◼
►
this big enhancement, which, you know,
01:22:37
◼
►
this might have been a total rewrite,
01:22:39
◼
►
using like a CloudKit backend.
01:22:41
◼
►
I don't think they would have done that
01:22:42
◼
►
if they were still using IMAP,
01:22:44
◼
►
and if they ever planned to move it off IMAP.
01:22:46
◼
►
Like they would have waited and done it at the same time.
01:22:48
◼
►
- I mean, it's just a bag of bytes,
01:22:49
◼
►
like you could put whatever you want in IMAP.
01:22:50
◼
►
I get scared in thinking like when you select all the stuff
01:22:53
◼
►
and it makes it into a bullet list,
01:22:55
◼
►
they're using sort of a weird bastardized markdown language
01:22:57
◼
►
behind the scenes that it really just is a big giant text file.
01:22:59
◼
►
That's all RTF is anyway.
01:23:01
◼
►
But there's a line between a bunch of weird things
01:23:05
◼
►
that humans were never supposed to see that make up
01:23:08
◼
►
this file format and something like markdown,
01:23:10
◼
►
where it's like we just picked-- it's supposed
01:23:12
◼
►
to be readable as plain text.
01:23:14
◼
►
And we just made up our own plain text thing
01:23:16
◼
►
to mean a check mark that's checked
01:23:18
◼
►
and a check mark that's not checked out.
01:23:20
◼
►
I don't know. I'm hoping the backend is better on this one, but nothing they showed me definitively
01:23:26
◼
►
says it must be. They could pull all this off on top of IMAP with a weird format under
01:23:30
◼
►
the covers. I just hope they're not.
01:23:32
◼
►
Yeah, I'm guessing it's like HTML and something like that. Or maybe it is RTF. Who knows?
01:23:37
◼
►
Yeah, RTF is not a great format either.
01:23:39
◼
►
Display PostScript. We'll see.
01:23:42
◼
►
All right. So I think we got to talk about this news app.
01:23:45
◼
►
Right. Apple Instant Articles.
01:23:46
◼
►
Yeah, that's basically -- I mean, it looks like it's a lot like -- or, you know, Apple
01:23:49
◼
►
- Apple Instant Articles with no visible means of support.
01:23:53
◼
►
Meaning, I'm pretty sure they did not mention
01:23:56
◼
►
a single time ads, advertisers, or anything like that.
01:24:00
◼
►
- Well, so on the page it says you can use iAd.
01:24:03
◼
►
So I'm not entirely sure of the details.
01:24:05
◼
►
We haven't had time to look into the details,
01:24:06
◼
►
but it looks like their solution is basically,
01:24:09
◼
►
if you want to monetize this, you can use our ad system.
01:24:12
◼
►
- The one that everyone loves,
01:24:14
◼
►
and is setting the world on fire.
01:24:15
◼
►
- We don't know what their solution is,
01:24:17
◼
►
but we do know how they presented it,
01:24:19
◼
►
and they presented it entirely as an end user benefit.
01:24:22
◼
►
We talked about the Facebook Instant articles being
01:24:25
◼
►
presented as like, here's the end user benefit, instant.
01:24:28
◼
►
You don't have to wait for stuff to load.
01:24:29
◼
►
But they also said, here's the publisher benefit.
01:24:32
◼
►
We'll give you all your ad money.
01:24:33
◼
►
You'll get lots of demographics.
01:24:34
◼
►
You've got lots of reach, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:24:36
◼
►
Lots of social sharing.
01:24:38
◼
►
They could start here instead of--
01:24:40
◼
►
they gave two halves of that.
01:24:41
◼
►
Apple only gave the consumer half.
01:24:43
◼
►
This is a cool way for you to read news.
01:24:45
◼
►
Look at this nice app.
01:24:46
◼
►
Look at these beautiful articles.
01:24:48
◼
►
Isn't it nice?
01:24:48
◼
►
A little bit they said, look at these rich layouts.
01:24:51
◼
►
That could be pitched towards the publishers a little bit.
01:24:53
◼
►
Hey, this looks like the New York Times.
01:24:55
◼
►
Don't get nervous, New York Times.
01:24:56
◼
►
Your stuff will still look like the New York Times.
01:24:59
◼
►
But it was still, I think, mostly pitched entirely
01:25:01
◼
►
towards the customer of saying, these publications
01:25:04
◼
►
look the way you expect them to look.
01:25:05
◼
►
They still have personality.
01:25:07
◼
►
You can find them all in one place.
01:25:08
◼
►
And I'm pretty sure, from memory,
01:25:11
◼
►
that all the articles they scrolled through
01:25:13
◼
►
did not have a single ad of them.
01:25:14
◼
►
And it looks so alien, because we're
01:25:15
◼
►
so used to scrolling through mobile web pages
01:25:17
◼
►
a million ads and like in the middle of an article is a gigantic square the size of your
01:25:21
◼
►
entire screen advertising something and ad block is not as pervasive on iOS let's say
01:25:26
◼
►
as it is on the desktop. Maybe Chrome has some options for it. I don't think there's
01:25:29
◼
►
anything you can do in Safari except for maybe like DNS blocking at your router to kill ads
01:25:33
◼
►
and stuff. It just looks so weird to be reading all these news sites without an ad in sight
01:25:40
◼
►
and so I'm left to wonder. I like the consumer story, sort of, but what is the publisher
01:25:46
◼
►
Why would Wired and the New York Times and Rolling Stone
01:25:49
◼
►
or whoever else they put in there,
01:25:51
◼
►
why would they want their things to be in news
01:25:54
◼
►
if you aren't going to their websites
01:25:55
◼
►
and they can't show you any ads?
01:25:57
◼
►
And the iEd thing, is that the answer?
01:25:59
◼
►
Is that you have to use iEd?
01:26:01
◼
►
Do you get to run your own ads?
01:26:02
◼
►
I don't know.
01:26:03
◼
►
As someone snarkily tweeted, I think
01:26:05
◼
►
it was Brianna snarkily tweeted, worried about how this is going
01:26:10
◼
►
to affect the application that Apple previously
01:26:13
◼
►
had in the space, Newsstand, which is really burning up
01:26:15
◼
►
the charts. Like it's not, you know, newsstand, I'm not going to say newsstand has been a
01:26:21
◼
►
failure, but it certainly has not been the success that Apple wanted it to be, and here
01:26:25
◼
►
they are taking another run at the same problem. I'm not sure if they've nailed it on the second
01:26:31
◼
►
So, the, I've been looking through the fact, and it is, it is very, it's interesting, and
01:26:37
◼
►
it's kind of vague on some pretty important points. So, first of all, this is entirely
01:26:41
◼
►
based on RSS for now. And then they say there's an Apple News format that's coming soon, but
01:26:47
◼
►
the details of such format are not available yet. And the way this works is it appears
01:26:52
◼
►
that they will add RSS feeds for a lot of things by themselves and you can opt out of
01:26:58
◼
►
that, but then you can also sign up with an account to have like a management interface
01:27:04
◼
►
to submit your own RSS feeds for your own sites. So God knows how that's working out.
01:27:09
◼
►
And then there's a submission status.
01:27:12
◼
►
And then there's some things about how can I monetize,
01:27:17
◼
►
and the answer is you can monetize with iAd.
01:27:20
◼
►
And it says you can sell ads,
01:27:22
◼
►
I guess iAd is just then serving the inventory
01:27:27
◼
►
you've entered, so if you enter ads into iAd
01:27:30
◼
►
that you have sold, you keep all the revenue,
01:27:32
◼
►
otherwise if they sell the ad,
01:27:34
◼
►
if you're showing their inventory that they sold,
01:27:36
◼
►
you get 70%.
01:27:38
◼
►
So it's interesting, and there's a section of like,
01:27:42
◼
►
you know, what's required, and the requirement is basically
01:27:45
◼
►
it has to be an RSS feed, and then what's recommended,
01:27:48
◼
►
and that says, you know, no read more links,
01:27:51
◼
►
no advertising that's outside of iAds, stuff like that.
01:27:53
◼
►
So this'll be interesting.
01:27:55
◼
►
I see that, I think the story for publishers
01:28:01
◼
►
is going to really depend on if anybody actually uses this.
01:28:07
◼
►
- Same thing with newsstand.
01:28:08
◼
►
Like, good idea, but if people just file that thing away
01:28:11
◼
►
and never look at it, not so good idea anymore.
01:28:13
◼
►
- Right, like, you know, with Facebook,
01:28:16
◼
►
the reason why Facebook is able to do something crazy
01:28:18
◼
►
like Instant Articles is because they just have a ton
01:28:21
◼
►
of people browsing in Facebook.
01:28:23
◼
►
They can throw around a ridiculous amount of traffic.
01:28:26
◼
►
And increasingly, for publications,
01:28:29
◼
►
they kinda have to be in newsstand,
01:28:31
◼
►
or I mean, they have to be visible in Facebook somehow,
01:28:33
◼
►
whether it's through links or Instant Articles.
01:28:35
◼
►
like they depend on Facebook's traffic to survive
01:28:39
◼
►
or to stay healthy.
01:28:40
◼
►
And so, you know, Apple with a brand new app
01:28:44
◼
►
that, you know, on day one,
01:28:46
◼
►
certainly a lot of people are gonna use it
01:28:47
◼
►
just because it's a new Apple app
01:28:48
◼
►
and it's built into the OS or whatever,
01:28:50
◼
►
but it's not gonna be the size of a Facebook traffic
01:28:53
◼
►
for browsing stuff on the web.
01:28:56
◼
►
I do wonder, you know, is this going to get big enough
01:29:01
◼
►
to make it worth the publishers participating
01:29:03
◼
►
and making things really fancy besides just
01:29:06
◼
►
dumb RSS feed dumps that the publishers eventually realize,
01:29:10
◼
►
oh crap, we forgot to monetize our feeds,
01:29:13
◼
►
and then they just stop supporting RSS.
01:29:16
◼
►
This could go very badly, so it's worth considering.
01:29:20
◼
►
What is the endgame here?
01:29:22
◼
►
First of all, this is very much
01:29:25
◼
►
not an Apple-like thing to attempt.
01:29:28
◼
►
If you would have said,
01:29:31
◼
►
two of the big tech companies are going to do this during a three month period, which
01:29:35
◼
►
two is it going to be? I don't think you would have guessed Apple would be one of them. I
01:29:38
◼
►
think you'd probably guess Facebook and Google. To have this be Apple is kind of weird.
01:29:44
◼
►
I think the way they pitched it actually makes sense in terms of what the companies have,
01:29:49
◼
►
like you just said. Facebook pitched way more towards the publishers because they already
01:29:53
◼
►
got the users. They don't have to pitch, they did do the "Hey, it's great, you don't have
01:30:00
◼
►
wait for loading, they don't have to pitch to the customers too much because people are
01:30:03
◼
►
already using Facebook and Facebook controls what they see. Facebook controls the feed
01:30:08
◼
►
in a way that they, with power that they have exerted time and again, where at this point
01:30:11
◼
►
that people just accept that Facebook has a tremendous amount of control of what they
01:30:15
◼
►
see on Facebook, that they are not entirely in control. So they pitch to the publishers.
01:30:19
◼
►
Apple is pitching to the users because there are far fewer publishers and if the users
01:30:23
◼
►
are there, I think Apple feels like they can get the publishers on board, especially they
01:30:27
◼
►
they could differentiate themselves from Facebook
01:30:29
◼
►
or whatever in some way, they need to pitch to the users
01:30:32
◼
►
'cause all this is pointless if, like you said,
01:30:35
◼
►
if people don't use the news app.
01:30:36
◼
►
So they're entirely going to the customers
01:30:38
◼
►
and saying you are the ones that we need that we don't have.
01:30:40
◼
►
If we can get you on board, it will be easy to explain
01:30:43
◼
►
to the New York Times and Vogue Magazine or whatever
01:30:45
◼
►
why you should be in our thing.
01:30:48
◼
►
Even just if you're gonna say do it as a hedge
01:30:50
◼
►
against giving all your content to Facebook
01:30:52
◼
►
and letting them control your destiny.
01:30:54
◼
►
- And what's interesting too, they are saying
01:30:55
◼
►
this is the way forward so much that people on Twitter
01:30:58
◼
►
were just telling me they have actually killed Newsstand.
01:31:00
◼
►
Newsstand on iOS 9, here we'll say--
01:31:02
◼
►
- It will not be mourned.
01:31:04
◼
►
- From Nate Peel, a user named emullet on Twitter,
01:31:07
◼
►
he says that when he installed iOS 9,
01:31:09
◼
►
Newsstand was converted into a folder,
01:31:12
◼
►
which is honestly, that's great.
01:31:14
◼
►
Like back when I was a Newsstand publisher,
01:31:17
◼
►
I was saying they should do this.
01:31:19
◼
►
And yeah, this is great, this is perfect for everybody,
01:31:22
◼
►
for users who hated it, who never wanted to see it
01:31:24
◼
►
had to bury it somewhere.
01:31:26
◼
►
And for the new developers--
01:31:27
◼
►
- It was worse for the people who used it all the time
01:31:29
◼
►
because everything was always two levels down.
01:31:31
◼
►
- Right, and it was worse for the publishers
01:31:32
◼
►
'cause their app couldn't be on the home screen,
01:31:35
◼
►
it couldn't be in the dock, it couldn't be,
01:31:36
◼
►
like it was also buried.
01:31:38
◼
►
Like it was, it really just didn't work out at all
01:31:40
◼
►
for anybody for any side.
01:31:42
◼
►
Even for Apple 'cause then nobody wanted to use it
01:31:44
◼
►
and yeah, it was just bad all around.
01:31:46
◼
►
So, and this is also interesting that
01:31:49
◼
►
it doesn't seem like there's any kind of payment method
01:31:52
◼
►
built into this.
01:31:53
◼
►
it's only ad-based, which is probably--
01:31:56
◼
►
- Like not just subscribing or anything, yeah.
01:31:57
◼
►
- Yeah, like, I mean, that's probably for the best,
01:32:00
◼
►
'cause it does seem like on the web
01:32:01
◼
►
that just works a lot better and is by far
01:32:04
◼
►
the dominant way to monetize web content.
01:32:06
◼
►
It is interesting that they are kind of saying,
01:32:09
◼
►
all right, well, Newsstand is done.
01:32:10
◼
►
And if you wanna keep having apps
01:32:14
◼
►
that support payments in the app
01:32:16
◼
►
and in-app purchase subscriptions,
01:32:17
◼
►
like those all still exist,
01:32:19
◼
►
and you can do them in an app separately from this,
01:32:21
◼
►
but if you wanna be in this news app,
01:32:23
◼
►
in this ecosystem, it sure looks like your stuff has to be free on the web.
01:32:27
◼
►
This is also interesting compared to something we forgot to mention.
01:32:31
◼
►
This is like, "Well, Newsstand didn't work out, let's take a second run at this problem."
01:32:34
◼
►
Whereas Passbook turning into Apple Wallet is not like, "Passbook didn't work out, let's
01:32:39
◼
►
take another run at it with Apple Wallet."
01:32:41
◼
►
Apple Wallet is what Passbook was always supposed to be.
01:32:44
◼
►
It's the same tech underlying the little HTML things that make the little cards and everything,
01:32:47
◼
►
but when Passbook was launched, they didn't have a financial component to it.
01:32:51
◼
►
So it could go two ways.
01:32:52
◼
►
One is they wanted it to be this Passbook thing and it turns out payments fit right
01:32:57
◼
►
into that and payments are more important.
01:32:58
◼
►
The second is they always wanted it to be Apple Wallet but you can't launch a thing
01:33:01
◼
►
called Wallet with no money inside.
01:33:04
◼
►
If it just has boarding passes, like the entire Passbook project, everything they did is 100%
01:33:09
◼
►
used in Apple Wallet.
01:33:11
◼
►
Like all the tech that they worked on for all the, like how do you make a Passbook,
01:33:14
◼
►
how does it get in there, what is it made out of, how does it update itself, you know,
01:33:18
◼
►
all that stuff for all your boarding passes and event tickets and stuff, that's all used
01:33:23
◼
►
in Apple Wallet. It's just now that we have Apple Pay, now sort of reveals its final form.
01:33:28
◼
►
It was always Apple Wallet. So Passbook has become the beautiful butterfly of Apple Wallet
01:33:33
◼
►
and Newsstand is just getting stomped on and there's a new thing with news in the name
01:33:36
◼
►
that is, as far as I can tell, unrelated to Newsstand in every way. And we'll see if they
01:33:42
◼
►
got it right that time.
01:33:44
◼
►
weird to me about news is that I feel like it's solving a problem that nobody
01:33:49
◼
►
really had because I mean granted they maybe you couldn't have solved this
01:33:54
◼
►
problem with solely Safari and the things that are baked into iOS but you
01:33:58
◼
►
know Flipboard is really good and and I don't think that we that the world was
01:34:03
◼
►
yearning for a Flipboard replacement and yet here it is you're in for a reading
01:34:08
◼
►
list either well true and so I'm surprised that this is somewhere where
01:34:13
◼
►
they seem to have put a considerable amount of effort.
01:34:16
◼
►
And I'll certainly try it once I move to iOS 9,
01:34:20
◼
►
which by the way, pro tip, if you learn anything from us,
01:34:24
◼
►
do not put on beta one, just don't.
01:34:25
◼
►
- Yeah, just skip beta one, just wait a couple weeks
01:34:27
◼
►
for beta two to come out.
01:34:28
◼
►
- At the earliest, and if you're wise,
01:34:31
◼
►
you're gonna wait until like July
01:34:32
◼
►
before you start doing any of this.
01:34:33
◼
►
- Generally, like the pro move is
01:34:35
◼
►
don't install anything before beta three.
01:34:37
◼
►
Usually by then they've worked out
01:34:38
◼
►
most of the major problems that would prevent you
01:34:41
◼
►
from being able to use it on your day-to-day phone.
01:34:44
◼
►
The wisest move is just never to install the beta,
01:34:46
◼
►
but if you insist, which most of you will,
01:34:48
◼
►
yeah, wait 'til beta two or three.
01:34:50
◼
►
- Unless you're a developer.
01:34:51
◼
►
Obviously, if you have a spare phone,
01:34:52
◼
►
put whatever you want on there.
01:34:53
◼
►
What we're talking about is don't put it on your main phone
01:34:55
◼
►
because you don't just host your main phone.
01:34:57
◼
►
- Especially while traveling at WBC.
01:34:59
◼
►
- Yeah, 'cause didn't you and I both put on five
01:35:01
◼
►
or whatever it was that had a notification center?
01:35:04
◼
►
Both of us deeply regretted it immediately.
01:35:06
◼
►
- John, you will never let me forget that.
01:35:08
◼
►
- Oh, God, I did the same thing.
01:35:09
◼
►
I was also an idiot and did the exact same thing. Oh, terrible decision. Absolutely terrible
01:35:13
◼
►
decision. All right, anything else on iOS or can we talk watchOS?
01:35:16
◼
►
>> I think it's time to go to the watch.
01:35:18
◼
►
>> All right. So we are getting third party complications. I am...
01:35:21
◼
►
>> That makes you very happy.
01:35:22
◼
►
>> That makes me super happy. I'm really excited about this. I think if developers can keep
01:35:28
◼
►
themselves in check and actually do this tastefully, I think it can be phenomenal. The problem
01:35:34
◼
►
is I'm not terribly convinced that we'll be able to do it tastefully.
01:35:37
◼
►
I noticed they mentioned, like they were talking about,
01:35:38
◼
►
that we would get the time travel feature,
01:35:40
◼
►
like that, you know, what if you have something
01:35:41
◼
►
you don't know when it upsets?
01:35:42
◼
►
Like the score in a game.
01:35:43
◼
►
Like it's not like the weather,
01:35:44
◼
►
where you can update it every hour.
01:35:45
◼
►
What if the score in the game updates,
01:35:46
◼
►
you don't know when it's gonna update,
01:35:47
◼
►
but you wanna know as soon as someone scores a goal,
01:35:49
◼
►
well you can do a push notification,
01:35:50
◼
►
a priority push notification from your server
01:35:52
◼
►
that goes through the phone,
01:35:53
◼
►
and I immediately thought, video complications.
01:35:56
◼
►
Push a frame of video, 24 times a second,
01:35:58
◼
►
push, push, push, push, I gotta look up a thing,
01:36:00
◼
►
and there'll be a tiny little video in the corner here.
01:36:02
◼
►
That's the kind of abuse you're talking about,
01:36:04
◼
►
I think, because they're not being tasteful.
01:36:06
◼
►
And we've seen that Apple is seemingly either unwilling
01:36:10
◼
►
or unable or both to police push notification abuse.
01:36:13
◼
►
Video wouldn't work, obviously.
01:36:15
◼
►
It was just a joke.
01:36:16
◼
►
Well, no, but still.
01:36:16
◼
►
But yeah, people can-- two things here.
01:36:19
◼
►
One, and we'll get to this with apps in a bit,
01:36:22
◼
►
you could really hose someone's watch.
01:36:25
◼
►
Like, I didn't see a lot-- maybe we'll go to the sessions later
01:36:27
◼
►
and we'll learn what all the crazy limits are.
01:36:29
◼
►
But so what are you saying?
01:36:30
◼
►
I can send a push notification whenever
01:36:32
◼
►
I want to update a complication?
01:36:33
◼
►
you could keep that poor watch like it's trying to go to sleep it's trying to be
01:36:37
◼
►
like and you know I'm not doing anything mode and it keeps getting these
01:36:39
◼
►
notifications like you now have the power I think to basically make a
01:36:44
◼
►
badly-behaved app that drains someone's watch battery way more than you know
01:36:48
◼
►
this we're in the glory days of the watch now where everyone says it lasts
01:36:51
◼
►
all day and there's no problem but now you just let random developers do stuff
01:36:54
◼
►
especially if you have like apps installed by default is that the default
01:36:58
◼
►
on the thing like I think it is yeah that's probably a bad default because
01:37:02
◼
►
you'll install some cruddy game on your iOS device,
01:37:05
◼
►
play it once, not like it, forget about it,
01:37:07
◼
►
maybe you didn't delete it, and not know
01:37:09
◼
►
that it put some watch kit thing--
01:37:11
◼
►
I guess if you don't make the complication show,
01:37:13
◼
►
it's not that bad.
01:37:13
◼
►
But anyway, I'm kind of fearful of the things
01:37:17
◼
►
that native watch apps and complications can do
01:37:21
◼
►
that people will be unaware of.
01:37:23
◼
►
They'll be able to connect up.
01:37:24
◼
►
Like, I put this complication in because it's neat,
01:37:25
◼
►
but this complication is actually updating once
01:37:27
◼
►
every 30 seconds all day.
01:37:30
◼
►
That'll be no good.
01:37:31
◼
►
The one thing I'm curious to hear about later in the week is how does it work for the different
01:37:35
◼
►
sized complications?
01:37:37
◼
►
You know, the modular face, that's what I'm thinking of, right?
01:37:40
◼
►
That has no analog anything on it.
01:37:43
◼
►
Some of those complications are physically, you know, they take up quite a bit of real
01:37:46
◼
►
estate like the main one in the center of the watch face.
01:37:50
◼
►
And yet, they also showed, so they showed some of those, and they also showed third
01:37:53
◼
►
party complications like there was a Volkswagen, like how charged is your Volkswagen?
01:37:58
◼
►
and it was basically like a little circle,
01:38:01
◼
►
kind of like the activity rings
01:38:02
◼
►
that went around the VW logo.
01:38:04
◼
►
And that's one of those little teeny tiny complications
01:38:06
◼
►
that's kind of square shaped.
01:38:08
◼
►
I'm curious to see how that works.
01:38:10
◼
►
I presume-- - Like size classes.
01:38:13
◼
►
- Yeah, maybe.
01:38:14
◼
►
- Don't forget, you also have 38 and 42 millimeter.
01:38:17
◼
►
- Ah, that's another good point.
01:38:18
◼
►
I hadn't considered that.
01:38:19
◼
►
- Yep, and then you have things like,
01:38:20
◼
►
you're probably, I mean, we haven't listed API yet,
01:38:22
◼
►
but you're probably given like an accent color
01:38:24
◼
►
that you have to use and stuff like that.
01:38:27
◼
►
This is, third party complications are technically probably one of the easiest things they can
01:38:31
◼
►
do because it is so incredibly constrained.
01:38:34
◼
►
The number of things you can do there, I don't think you have, you know, like, you know,
01:38:38
◼
►
core graphics and you just draw whatever the hell you want there.
01:38:41
◼
►
Maybe you're going to be making up a ping and passing it over.
01:38:44
◼
►
Maybe you have some simple text that you can do.
01:38:45
◼
►
Maybe it's just like a mask that you pass and it treats it like a mask.
01:38:47
◼
►
Yeah, I don't know.
01:38:48
◼
►
But anyway, it's, it's, it is a huge bang for your buck because it is the thing that
01:38:52
◼
►
you see when you raise your wrist.
01:38:54
◼
►
And lots of things you can imagine could be super useful, even if just something as simple
01:38:58
◼
►
as a sports score.
01:38:59
◼
►
Having a sports score as a complication on your watch is something that mechanical watches
01:39:03
◼
►
could never dream of.
01:39:04
◼
►
This is the real differentiator.
01:39:06
◼
►
Like yeah, I can see what day of the week it is, I can see the face of the moon, I can
01:39:09
◼
►
see all this thing.
01:39:10
◼
►
I can see a live sports score, now we're, you know, forget about physical watches, just
01:39:13
◼
►
stomping in their faces.
01:39:15
◼
►
Yep, yep, yep.
01:39:16
◼
►
And then this brings us to, what is it, time machine, time travel, what do they call it?
01:39:20
◼
►
Not time machine.
01:39:21
◼
►
Time travel, I said it was a missed opportunity.
01:39:22
◼
►
They could have called it time machine.
01:39:23
◼
►
So time travel, and what that allows you to do is, as you're looking at your watch face,
01:39:29
◼
►
you can spin the digital crown and you can move forward or back in time to see what your
01:39:34
◼
►
complications either did or would reflect at that point in time, which I think is absolutely
01:39:40
◼
►
fascinating and reminds me of the Pebble Time, is that correct?
01:39:45
◼
►
Which works in a vaguely similar way where the idea behind that is everything you look
01:39:50
◼
►
at on the main interface is kind of like a timeline. And this isn't exactly the same,
01:39:55
◼
►
but very similar. And I really dig the idea of, like we were talking about weather earlier,
01:40:00
◼
►
Jon had brought up weather as a complication, being able to see, well, at five o'clock,
01:40:04
◼
►
what's the weather going to be like? And at the very least, you can get numerals for the
01:40:07
◼
►
temperature, or perhaps you can get an icon that'll tell you whether or not it'll be overcast.
01:40:16
◼
►
So you can spin the crown and kind of see how things are going.
01:40:19
◼
►
Or you can see, they actually used an example in the second session of, well, how did this
01:40:25
◼
►
soccer team that I loved, how did they lose?
01:40:27
◼
►
Do they lose in the last second or do they lose by not scoring in the last 45 minutes?
01:40:31
◼
►
And you could scroll back on the digital crown and see, oh, well, they had lost in the last
01:40:35
◼
►
second I think was the example.
01:40:37
◼
►
So I am absolutely fascinated by this.
01:40:39
◼
►
I had written a blog post a while ago and I'm not the only one.
01:40:40
◼
►
I think Marco had done the same.
01:40:43
◼
►
few people have been saying, you know, third-party complications would be really awesome. And
01:40:46
◼
►
I think if tastefully done, and that's the key, if tastefully done, I can see how this
01:40:51
◼
►
would be absolutely awesome to have. And just like Jon had said earlier, you know, when
01:40:55
◼
►
all you're doing is flicking up your wrist to look at the face of your watch and you
01:40:59
◼
►
can instantly see some piece of information, be it a sports score or the weather or what
01:41:04
◼
►
have you, that is absolutely appealing to me and appealing enough that I would even
01:41:10
◼
►
consider going to the modular watch face, which I freaking hate.
01:41:14
◼
►
It's not that appealing.
01:41:16
◼
►
Yeah, to get that amount of information density would be fantastic. And by the way, very quick
01:41:20
◼
►
aside, they're also supporting a picture as a watch face.
01:41:24
◼
►
Or an album.
01:41:25
◼
►
Yes, actually, excellent point. Or an album. Which I think is awesome because not only
01:41:29
◼
►
would I love to have a picture of Aaron and Declan as my watch face, but we actually have
01:41:33
◼
►
a shared photo stream that will post pictures of Declan for family and friends to see. And
01:41:39
◼
►
Having my watch face cycle through those pictures
01:41:41
◼
►
sounds awesome.
01:41:42
◼
►
The only problem though, which Marco pointed out to me
01:41:45
◼
►
as we're sitting in the keynote,
01:41:46
◼
►
is well, we don't see any complications on that right now,
01:41:49
◼
►
and there may not be any complications on that.
01:41:51
◼
►
- It sure looks like there's not going to be.
01:41:53
◼
►
- I think the complication is where do you put the time
01:41:55
◼
►
so it's legible in the picture.
01:41:56
◼
►
And if you have a bunch of complications,
01:41:58
◼
►
now you could pick a color that looks okay,
01:42:01
◼
►
but in different sections of the picture
01:42:02
◼
►
or a different color, it's actually a pretty hard problem
01:42:04
◼
►
with arbitrary pictures.
01:42:05
◼
►
If you put a bunch of complications,
01:42:07
◼
►
it'll just look all splotchy.
01:42:09
◼
►
they don't even have complications on the ones they control that are like that
01:42:11
◼
►
we show you a fish and the butterflies and everything and I mean only there's
01:42:14
◼
►
only there's what six or seven watch faces only three of them support
01:42:17
◼
►
complications yeah and and that's so on one hand like you know it's interesting
01:42:22
◼
►
like you know they do a new watch face but doesn't support this though okay I
01:42:25
◼
►
think there's a lot that they could do to make the watch faces and the
01:42:29
◼
►
complications better but third-party complications that's a major step in the
01:42:34
◼
►
right direction like that's a huge jump that I was not expecting to have yet
01:42:37
◼
►
Oh, I agree. Third party watch faces next year, right?
01:42:40
◼
►
Maybe. I don't know if they'll ever do third party watch faces.
01:42:43
◼
►
I think it's time will come.
01:42:45
◼
►
To me, it's like third party lock screens on the phone.
01:42:48
◼
►
I don't think that's ever going to happen either.
01:42:49
◼
►
But this like once you have third party complications, like, well, I get to put
01:42:53
◼
►
stuff in little places. Why can't you?
01:42:54
◼
►
Even if the third party watch faces only could choose complications that were of
01:42:58
◼
►
the preset sizes, which would probably be the case, it would still be even if you
01:43:01
◼
►
just rearrange modular to put stuff in different places.
01:43:04
◼
►
Like, not this year, but anyway.
01:43:07
◼
►
Like, a lot of things are telegraphed.
01:43:08
◼
►
I think the time travel feature was telegraphed by the fact
01:43:12
◼
►
that on my watch face-- by the way,
01:43:14
◼
►
I have an Apple Watch now, in case you were wondering.
01:43:16
◼
►
I'm going to slip that in there.
01:43:18
◼
►
On my watch face, when I turn the digital crown,
01:43:22
◼
►
nothing happens, right?
01:43:23
◼
►
Yeah, same here.
01:43:25
◼
►
How in the world could you have this watch?
01:43:27
◼
►
Like, it's major UI features.
01:43:28
◼
►
Like, oh, look at this digital crown.
01:43:30
◼
►
And you just turn it, and nothing happened.
01:43:31
◼
►
And what do you expect to happen?
01:43:33
◼
►
I expect, I guess, the hands on the watch to turn.
01:43:35
◼
►
Ah, but on the Solar Face, something does happen.
01:43:37
◼
►
What happens?
01:43:38
◼
►
Basically, time travel.
01:43:39
◼
►
But there's no complications.
01:43:41
◼
►
So they could do that there.
01:43:42
◼
►
You could move the sun on the little Solar Face
01:43:44
◼
►
and stuff like that.
01:43:45
◼
►
So time travel was-- how could Apple ship a watch?
01:43:48
◼
►
Returning the crown does nothing when you're
01:43:50
◼
►
on their watch face.
01:43:50
◼
►
Well, they didn't.
01:43:51
◼
►
It just wasn't ready yet.
01:43:52
◼
►
It's time travel.
01:43:53
◼
►
It does exactly what you would expect it to do intuitively
01:43:55
◼
►
and that it already did on the Solar Face.
01:43:57
◼
►
So even though they're calling this watch OS 2,
01:44:00
◼
►
even though there was never a watch OS 1,
01:44:01
◼
►
because it didn't have a name with those all lowercase watch or whatever this
01:44:05
◼
►
seems like watch OS 1.0 and what we're all using now is like the beta yeah it
01:44:11
◼
►
seems like a 1.1 you know like I think we okay we got to solve 1.0 it's fine
01:44:16
◼
►
but yeah this this feels like 1.1 the you know the first update I mean iOS had
01:44:20
◼
►
a 1.1 added things like the like the GPS triangulation simulation and then to to
01:44:24
◼
►
edit apps right yeah 2.0 was apps yeah but so maybe that's why they're thinking
01:44:29
◼
►
but it is kind of weird to have 2.0 so soon that has seemingly very few user-facing enhancements
01:44:34
◼
►
besides third-party stuff, which is big, but you know.
01:44:36
◼
►
Yeah, they were super proud of themselves that like this is only six weeks after the
01:44:40
◼
►
launch of one, but it's like, you know, things come out when, you know, whenever they're
01:44:47
◼
►
And we're getting native applications on the watch now. It seems like they're intending
01:44:53
◼
►
to push developers to abandon WatchKit as we know it today and move towards native.
01:45:00
◼
►
Was that the impression that you guys got as well?
01:45:01
◼
►
>> Well, the way they're doing it is interesting. So I was assuming when we heard that they
01:45:06
◼
►
were going to be doing native SDK, I was assuming all this time that like the WatchKit API that
01:45:11
◼
►
we had now, which does like, you know, kind of like the remote control of the interface
01:45:15
◼
►
on the watch, I was assuming that that was just a temporary thing that was basically
01:45:20
◼
►
a dead end. And that as soon as we got native apps that we would be writing directly to
01:45:25
◼
►
like UIKit. And what we have instead is they're taking the watch, they're taking WatchKit
01:45:32
◼
►
which WatchKit extensions run on the iPhone today.
01:45:35
◼
►
>> Right, right.
01:45:36
◼
►
>> They're, they're now just letting you move them so that they run on the watch. But you're
01:45:42
◼
►
still writing WatchKit and you're still writing WatchKit code, you're still writing WatchKit
01:45:46
◼
►
UI and you still have many of the watch kit limitations, but now they've added a bunch
01:45:52
◼
►
of new things you can now call from watch kit and because it is running on the watch
01:45:57
◼
►
instead of on the phone it becomes more useful in a lot of ways and of course better in a
01:46:00
◼
►
lot of ways.
01:46:01
◼
►
>> Those are faceless things, right?
01:46:03
◼
►
>> Like you have lots of APIs that you can get at that do things but not UI, not UIKit.
01:46:08
◼
►
Not like, "Oh, I'm just going to make this new layout and have this controller and push
01:46:10
◼
►
these things under it."
01:46:11
◼
►
No, that's not there, but if you want to use all sorts of networking stuff because now
01:46:15
◼
►
You could do Wi-Fi directly from the watch or audio or video processing and stuff like
01:46:20
◼
►
You could do that, but it seems like the viewport through which you see the customer sees you
01:46:25
◼
►
and you interact is still WatchKitty.
01:46:27
◼
►
>> Yeah, and I haven't looked at the APIs yet to know for sure, but it sure looks like,
01:46:32
◼
►
you know, we're not using UI views and UI buttons here.
01:46:36
◼
►
We don't seem to have total freeform layout control.
01:46:39
◼
►
I think we're still using the WatchKit layout methods, which are more limited than UIKit.
01:46:45
◼
►
And we don't seem to have any kind of access
01:46:48
◼
►
to things like animation of the UI elements,
01:46:50
◼
►
which seems like a pretty big thing.
01:46:52
◼
►
- Well, you get that when you write a full-on native app.
01:46:55
◼
►
They mentioned that you-- - Do you?
01:46:56
◼
►
- Yeah, I could swear. - Maybe.
01:46:58
◼
►
- Now I'm losing my confidence, but I could swear.
01:47:00
◼
►
I could swear they mentioned that you can do some animations
01:47:03
◼
►
on the watch in native watch apps.
01:47:05
◼
►
- All right, so I'll have to look at it to see.
01:47:08
◼
►
- We'll go to the sessions, I bet they'll tell us.
01:47:10
◼
►
- Yeah, probably. (laughs)
01:47:12
◼
►
Well, yeah, those of us with tickets, John, ding.
01:47:16
◼
►
So anyway, yeah, so I think it is in some ways
01:47:21
◼
►
simpler and more logical than I was predicting
01:47:25
◼
►
'cause I was thinking throw out watch,
01:47:27
◼
►
get started over again.
01:47:28
◼
►
But it also, and that's a plus and a minus.
01:47:31
◼
►
Because they basically just moved watch
01:47:33
◼
►
onto the watch and expanded it,
01:47:35
◼
►
we can use our existing knowledge,
01:47:37
◼
►
we can use a lot of our existing code.
01:47:39
◼
►
And so it is less of a jump and we don't have
01:47:41
◼
►
to throw away everything we wrote
01:47:42
◼
►
a few months ago necessarily.
01:47:44
◼
►
but also it is gonna be more limited.
01:47:47
◼
►
And like a lot of the frameworks are more limited.
01:47:49
◼
►
Like I already know I can't do my audio engine.
01:47:52
◼
►
I can't do smart speed on the watch.
01:47:53
◼
►
I can't do voice boost.
01:47:56
◼
►
Like there is audio playback,
01:47:58
◼
►
but you have to use their custom new player thing,
01:48:01
◼
►
which is very limited.
01:48:02
◼
►
And there's gonna be these limits all over the OS
01:48:08
◼
►
as you look at it.
01:48:08
◼
►
- Weren't you talking about like pre-rendering
01:48:10
◼
►
the smart speed though?
01:48:11
◼
►
- Yeah, it's something I could do.
01:48:12
◼
►
we'll see if that ends up being good enough to actually do.
01:48:15
◼
►
'Cause, you know, another big thing
01:48:18
◼
►
that they have some sessions on,
01:48:20
◼
►
I haven't looked at documentation yet,
01:48:21
◼
►
but there of course is the issue of communicating
01:48:25
◼
►
between the extension, between the watch app
01:48:28
◼
►
and the iPhone app, and data sharing,
01:48:30
◼
►
and what happens when the phone goes away,
01:48:33
◼
►
what data do you have.
01:48:34
◼
►
It can read from the shared container, which is nice,
01:48:37
◼
►
but then when it goes away,
01:48:39
◼
►
does all the operations just fail?
01:48:41
◼
►
Like is there some better way to do that?
01:48:42
◼
►
- And if they don't, you're split-brain then
01:48:45
◼
►
and you gotta reconcile.
01:48:46
◼
►
You're writing your own little sync engine
01:48:47
◼
►
between two things.
01:48:49
◼
►
- Not because your server and your client.
01:48:50
◼
►
- So it sounds really hard.
01:48:52
◼
►
So I'll see what they have in store for this,
01:48:54
◼
►
but I'm still not yet convinced that I should even do
01:48:58
◼
►
a native Overcast app that can play things on its own
01:49:00
◼
►
without the phone there.
01:49:02
◼
►
I would not call that a guarantee that that's even worth
01:49:06
◼
►
- Aren't you gonna at least do it just to get the better
01:49:07
◼
►
launch time and responsiveness?
01:49:09
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm certainly gonna play with that and see.
01:49:11
◼
►
That for sure, I'm most likely going to do that.
01:49:13
◼
►
- Like no new functionality,
01:49:15
◼
►
all the data comes from the same places,
01:49:17
◼
►
but fewer spinners.
01:49:18
◼
►
- Hopefully, yeah.
01:49:19
◼
►
So yeah, I'm certainly gonna try it,
01:49:21
◼
►
but I don't, you know--
01:49:23
◼
►
- You're not already done?
01:49:24
◼
►
David Smith would be having it done by now.
01:49:25
◼
►
- Yeah, he probably is done.
01:49:27
◼
►
- He probably did write it already.
01:49:30
◼
►
- Yeah, but overall it's great,
01:49:31
◼
►
and besides Overcast, there's a lot of other apps
01:49:34
◼
►
that can benefit hugely from this.
01:49:36
◼
►
So I'm looking forward to this.
01:49:37
◼
►
Again, I've said before,
01:49:39
◼
►
I don't consider the watch like a huge app platform.
01:49:42
◼
►
I consider it a platform that everybody uses
01:49:46
◼
►
a relatively small number of apps,
01:49:48
◼
►
but that that is incredibly useful to them.
01:49:50
◼
►
And I think it'll stay that way.
01:49:52
◼
►
Just the apps that you can use will just get better now.
01:49:54
◼
►
And more kinds of apps will be possible now than were before.
01:49:58
◼
►
But I still don't really see the watch as like,
01:50:00
◼
►
I'm gonna leave my phone in my pocket
01:50:02
◼
►
while I'm sitting on the couch and just like,
01:50:04
◼
►
be poking around on the watch for 15 minutes.
01:50:05
◼
►
Like, I don't think that's going to happen.
01:50:07
◼
►
- No, I agree.
01:50:08
◼
►
- All right, so what else with the watchOS 2?
01:50:11
◼
►
I don't think there's anything that I'm aware of.
01:50:14
◼
►
- There were like some Siri improvements,
01:50:15
◼
►
but yeah, for the most part, it's about the,
01:50:18
◼
►
you know, it's all about the apps,
01:50:19
◼
►
and I think that's enough personally.
01:50:22
◼
►
Then we got to the second presentation, which--
01:50:25
◼
►
- So, thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week,
01:50:27
◼
►
Cards Against Humanity, Automatic, and Squarespace,
01:50:30
◼
►
and we will see you next week.
01:50:32
◼
►
(upbeat music)
01:50:35
◼
►
♪ Now the show is over ♪
01:50:37
◼
►
They didn't even mean to begin, 'cause it was accidental.
01:50:41
◼
►
(Accidental)
01:50:42
◼
►
Oh, it was accidental.
01:50:44
◼
►
(Accidental)
01:50:45
◼
►
John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him, 'cause it was accidental.
01:50:51
◼
►
(Accidental)
01:50:52
◼
►
Oh, it was accidental.
01:50:54
◼
►
(Accidental)
01:50:55
◼
►
And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm.
01:51:00
◼
►
And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S
01:51:09
◼
►
So that's Casey, Liz, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M
01:51:14
◼
►
Auntie Marco, Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A, Syracuse
01:51:21
◼
►
It's accidental (it's accidental)
01:51:24
◼
►
They didn't mean to (it's accidental)
01:51:28
◼
►
♪ I've been at your tech podcast so long ♪
01:51:33
◼
►
- Yeah, so that Apple Music presentation.
01:51:39
◼
►
- Well, there's the one thing developers care about,
01:51:42
◼
►
- Honestly, let's just pretend that didn't happen,
01:51:46
◼
►
and let's just pretend that it ended
01:51:48
◼
►
right before the One More Thing,
01:51:49
◼
►
because it was a much better conference that way.
01:51:52
◼
►
- I don't mind so much the music things.
01:51:54
◼
►
what I mind a lot is that they devalued one more thing
01:51:59
◼
►
by making the watch one more thing felt appropriate.
01:52:02
◼
►
- Yep. - Yep.
01:52:03
◼
►
It felt totally appropriate or whatever.
01:52:05
◼
►
This was not one more thing.
01:52:07
◼
►
And it's fine.
01:52:08
◼
►
They can take ownership of that phrase
01:52:11
◼
►
and make it mean something else and sort of devalue it.
01:52:14
◼
►
That's, go for it, whatever.
01:52:15
◼
►
We'll get used to it after a few things
01:52:17
◼
►
where it's like, oh, remember one more thing
01:52:18
◼
►
was a big deal, but now it's not anymore.
01:52:20
◼
►
That's fine.
01:52:21
◼
►
- Well, wait, wasn't one more thing
01:52:22
◼
►
one time safari for windows? Steve Jobs could make one more thing anything you
01:52:26
◼
►
want. In the Steve Jobs era one more thing was always like he felt like he had to
01:52:31
◼
►
have something cool and either he had to fake it and pretend he was really
01:52:34
◼
►
enthusiastic about this or he really was enthusiastic about it but nobody else
01:52:37
◼
►
was but either way it was his thing he could pull it off. Once he's gone it
01:52:41
◼
►
becomes like oh that was his thing if you do it now you're invoking him it's
01:52:45
◼
►
not appropriate to do they didn't do it for a long time they did it for the
01:52:48
◼
►
watch which is like the most significant announcement of Tim Cook's tenure as
01:52:52
◼
►
Apple CEO. It felt significant. It felt like the right time to do it. Now they're just
01:52:56
◼
►
going to switch it back to like every presentation we feel like we want to have this gag at the
01:53:01
◼
►
end with the one more thing. I don't know. Anyway, but yeah, then what followed was a
01:53:05
◼
►
really long kind of railing presentation that was not relevant to developers. I think even
01:53:09
◼
►
when they do hardware, that's more relevant to developers because developers buy hardware,
01:53:13
◼
►
right? How in the world is music relevant?
01:53:15
◼
►
Well, I mean, you can argue that, "Oh, well, developers listen to music. That's great."
01:53:18
◼
►
But to me, this, see everything they announced with music today seemed like it's a lot more
01:53:23
◼
►
for the music publishers than it is for us.
01:53:27
◼
►
Like we get, okay, a snazzy new looking music app.
01:53:30
◼
►
Honestly, I didn't find the music app that compelling, but I listen to terrible music.
01:53:33
◼
►
- Well, it was trying to pitch us like this is a streaming service that is, I think they
01:53:36
◼
►
said try to pitch it, but it was like this is differentiated from the other streaming
01:53:39
◼
►
services that we involve humans in the process.
01:53:42
◼
►
And that the same reasons you like beats in their playlist because we have people with
01:53:46
◼
►
taste who are gonna do stuff.
01:53:47
◼
►
not just a bunch of algorithms, which is funny,
01:53:49
◼
►
coming from the company, they made Genius,
01:53:50
◼
►
which is a bunch of algorithms.
01:53:53
◼
►
Right, but that's their whole big pitch,
01:53:55
◼
►
is like, this is a streaming service,
01:53:57
◼
►
but with a difference, and the difference,
01:53:59
◼
►
you know, in some respects, they were pitching
01:54:01
◼
►
to the publishers like, oh, one place
01:54:02
◼
►
where you can go to put all your stuff,
01:54:04
◼
►
but that's kind of BS, 'cause you know,
01:54:05
◼
►
like, the publishers are gonna put their music
01:54:07
◼
►
where the customers are, and they have to have
01:54:09
◼
►
their music on Spotify, 'cause it's so popular,
01:54:11
◼
►
and they have to have it on Apple,
01:54:12
◼
►
it's because of iTunes, and they're just gonna
01:54:14
◼
►
spread it around, it's not like,
01:54:15
◼
►
the labels are gonna be like, oh, I gotta do this thing
01:54:17
◼
►
for connected and you got to put pictures here but you also have to have a YouTube channel
01:54:20
◼
►
but you also got to have a Facebook page but you also like this is not clarify or simplify
01:54:25
◼
►
anything from their from their perspective so I think it was mostly just like hey me
01:54:29
◼
►
too we have one of these and customers you'll like it because we hired a bunch of people
01:54:32
◼
►
who you respect who are going to use their musical taste to give you something and they
01:54:36
◼
►
leaned on the no ad thing like they didn't get down to the nitty-gritty details explain
01:54:40
◼
►
like how do the things that play on terrestrial radio get chosen for it to be on terrestrial
01:54:44
◼
►
radio and it has almost nothing to do with what some person likes. It has everything
01:54:48
◼
►
to do with what record companies want to promote and the format of the station, you have to
01:54:53
◼
►
play one of these and one of those and five of these and we got paid to play these. Where
01:54:58
◼
►
they were really emphasizing on this one, this is the music that a bunch of people we
01:55:02
◼
►
hired think is good music, which is very different from terrestrial radio and different from
01:55:10
◼
►
Spotify, because Spotify is not really like a radio station.
01:55:13
◼
►
I don't know.
01:55:14
◼
►
They're trying to say we are better than the other ways
01:55:16
◼
►
that you listen to music in these ways that
01:55:18
◼
►
are important to us.
01:55:18
◼
►
But I was just too busy being annoyed by the fact
01:55:21
◼
►
that this is supposed to be a developer conference.
01:55:23
◼
►
And maybe I shouldn't be.
01:55:24
◼
►
Maybe it's silly, you know, whatever,
01:55:26
◼
►
that I should care about this.
01:55:28
◼
►
Maybe it's just because it was like a flabby presentation
01:55:30
◼
►
and it was long and boring and rambling.
01:55:31
◼
►
See, that's what I was going to say,
01:55:32
◼
►
is that I can get over the fact that they're
01:55:34
◼
►
using one of the couple of times that they're
01:55:37
◼
►
in front of the world during the year
01:55:39
◼
►
to announce something that's somewhat irrelevant to developers. However, I just thought that
01:55:43
◼
►
entire 40 minutes or whatever it was, was just hugely boring. And I was just--I wasn't
01:55:52
◼
►
impressed by it at all. And I think part of the reason I wasn't impressed by it is everything
01:55:56
◼
►
else in the keynote, and even in the regular presentations that the public doesn't get
01:56:00
◼
►
to see throughout WVDC, they're all so well rehearsed, they're so well orchestrated, they're
01:56:05
◼
►
they're all so solid.
01:56:07
◼
►
And this was just like a train wreck to me by comparison.
01:56:11
◼
►
And I don't know, I just, I didn't care for it.
01:56:14
◼
►
I wasn't really sold on Apple Music.
01:56:16
◼
►
I remain not really sold on Apple Music.
01:56:18
◼
►
What is it that you guys are doing better than everyone else?
01:56:22
◼
►
The only thing I got was the curation.
01:56:24
◼
►
But I don't really care.
01:56:26
◼
►
- Well, to be fair, that is what a lot of people like
01:56:28
◼
►
about beats, and this is kind of,
01:56:30
◼
►
this is basically Beats Music 2.0 or whatever.
01:56:33
◼
►
our friends on Connected will probably talk about this
01:56:35
◼
►
better than we can, because they actually use these things
01:56:37
◼
►
more than we do, but people do like
01:56:40
◼
►
the human curation aspect.
01:56:42
◼
►
I'm interested in that aspect.
01:56:44
◼
►
I wasn't really sure though, from what we saw today,
01:56:47
◼
►
like it didn't sell me on it.
01:56:49
◼
►
- That's what I'm trying to say.
01:56:50
◼
►
- And part of it was 'cause I was tired
01:56:51
◼
►
and zoning out after a long morning.
01:56:53
◼
►
- Mixed in with all the other stuff
01:56:54
◼
►
that we're talking about.
01:56:56
◼
►
If I had to pull out the points that are important to me
01:56:59
◼
►
as someone who doesn't use these streaming services,
01:57:03
◼
►
is music being rationalized for families
01:57:09
◼
►
and that you pay once for an entire family
01:57:12
◼
►
and they all get access to the music,
01:57:14
◼
►
being rationalized into a single app called music,
01:57:16
◼
►
and the fact that the app is available on Android, which
01:57:18
◼
►
clearly expresses Apple's intent to compete with Spotify
01:57:21
◼
►
and stuff, not to make this is the way the people who
01:57:24
◼
►
own Apple devices listen to music,
01:57:26
◼
►
but to try to be like iTunes was before it,
01:57:28
◼
►
this is the way people buy music.
01:57:30
◼
►
Not just Mac users buy music in the old days
01:57:33
◼
►
went before iOS. Not just Mac users, not just iOS users, there's iTunes for Windows. Everybody
01:57:37
◼
►
should buy music through iTunes. And that's sort of the iTunes error of buying songs for
01:57:41
◼
►
99 cents seems to be moving on and we're in the new streaming age and it's important for
01:57:46
◼
►
Apple to stake its claim. Notice not by making a Windows version of Apple Music but by making
01:57:52
◼
►
an Android version. We were in the mobile error and so, you know, those two things.
01:57:57
◼
►
One, taking iTunes and music out of the ghetto. I don't know if it's like, is this replacing
01:58:02
◼
►
iTunes match? Does it also put your stuff in the cloud or is this entirely separate?
01:58:05
◼
►
Either way, this is priced the way we expect things to be priced and structured the way
01:58:08
◼
►
we expect them to be structured. And two, saying this is not just an Apple thing, this
01:58:13
◼
►
is a everything thing. They are trying, I don't know if it's going to work, but they
01:58:16
◼
►
are trying to relive their former glory. At one time iTunes defined digital music, now
01:58:23
◼
►
it no longer does. They're trying to get that back with Apple Music.
01:58:26
◼
►
Yeah, I pretty much think that perfectly encapsulates everything I had to say about Apple Music.
01:58:31
◼
►
So we gotta talk about two important things during this after show.
01:58:34
◼
►
Number one, what watch did you get, Jon?
01:58:36
◼
►
I got the same one as Marco.
01:58:38
◼
►
I remember me hemming and hawing like, "Oh, I don't know if no one's gonna use this thing.
01:58:42
◼
►
I don't like wearing watches."
01:58:43
◼
►
My main problem was I just did not like how the Sport 1 looks, and the other one was just
01:58:46
◼
►
so darn expensive.
01:58:47
◼
►
And in the end, I said, "Look, I like the more expensive one.
01:58:52
◼
►
I got the expensive one.
01:58:53
◼
►
I got the stainless steel one for two reasons.
01:58:55
◼
►
One, I like how it looks way better than the other one.
01:58:58
◼
►
And two, I wanted the Sapphire scratch resistance because I'm not going to be doing sport things
01:59:03
◼
►
with it, so impact resistance was less important, but I've already scraped it against things
01:59:07
◼
►
and gone, "Ooh!" and then realized, "Oh, it's probably okay because, you know, you look
01:59:11
◼
►
up the hardness scale of the thing I scraped it against."
01:59:13
◼
►
So no scratches so far.
01:59:14
◼
►
I got a black classic buckle band because it just looks like a regular watch band.
01:59:19
◼
►
I am not used to wearing watches.
01:59:20
◼
►
The first day I wore it, it itched me like crazy because it was wiggling my arm hairs
01:59:24
◼
►
This week, this is my first week with the watch.
01:59:26
◼
►
It arrived just before I came to the WBC.
01:59:28
◼
►
I'm gonna wear it this whole week, I'm just gonna do it, I'm gonna wear it all day.
01:59:31
◼
►
I'm already getting used to it.
01:59:32
◼
►
It's a little bit heavy, sometimes it catches on things, but it's kinda neat and it looks
01:59:38
◼
►
So, so far...
01:59:39
◼
►
The John Siracusa review.
01:59:40
◼
►
Yeah, so far it's approved.
01:59:41
◼
►
Yeah, the big test is after WWC week, after I leave the place where thousands of other
01:59:46
◼
►
people also have Apple Watches, do I keep wearing it?
01:59:48
◼
►
Do I put it on when I go to work?
01:59:50
◼
►
Am I going to get into the Marco Green Ring cycle?
01:59:54
◼
►
I don't know.
01:59:57
◼
►
You don't really have any weight to lose.
01:59:58
◼
►
It's not even that.
01:59:59
◼
►
That's very true.
02:00:00
◼
►
I think I already have a significant amount of antibodies for these gamification of fitness
02:00:06
◼
►
things that I've, you know, I'm pretty immune to being guilted into doing things by my watch,
02:00:12
◼
►
but I'm going to give it a try.
02:00:15
◼
►
You know, Casey's tapping me now.
02:00:18
◼
►
We all got tapped to stand up during recording this podcast.
02:00:20
◼
►
None of us stood up.
02:00:22
◼
►
I thought about it.
02:00:23
◼
►
I really thought about it.
02:00:24
◼
►
There was no stand up gag in the keynote.
02:00:25
◼
►
- It was a little surprising actually.
02:00:26
◼
►
- Yeah, I thought there would be.
02:00:27
◼
►
- Yeah, it was a perfect opportunity.
02:00:29
◼
►
Even if they just wanted to pretend it was an ad lib
02:00:30
◼
►
and not time the entire keynote route,
02:00:31
◼
►
they didn't do it at all.
02:00:32
◼
►
- And there were two opportunities.
02:00:34
◼
►
- Yeah, there's two. - Yeah, that's true.
02:00:34
◼
►
- There were almost three.
02:00:35
◼
►
- It was a two-stand keynote.
02:00:37
◼
►
- That's the new measure.
02:00:39
◼
►
The other thing we need to discuss
02:00:40
◼
►
that's really, really important is
02:00:41
◼
►
how in the name of all that is holy
02:00:43
◼
►
do you have a tri-fold wallet?
02:00:44
◼
►
What is wrong with you, man?
02:00:45
◼
►
- I've always had a tri-fold wallet.
02:00:46
◼
►
- This is a George Costanza wallet.
02:00:47
◼
►
- It is pretty big.
02:00:48
◼
►
Well, here's the thing about it.
02:00:50
◼
►
It's not a George Sanders vlog because I would never put this in my back pocket when it's
02:00:52
◼
►
sitting down. That's crazy. You just destroy yourself.
02:00:56
◼
►
Two, it's thick because it does have a lot of money in it and a lot of cards. Like, I
02:01:00
◼
►
would like to get rid of a lot of these cards. And it also has some stupid business cards
02:01:04
◼
►
floating in there.
02:01:05
◼
►
Oh, wait. Can we get a side view of this thing?
02:01:07
◼
►
It's not as thick as you would think.
02:01:09
◼
►
That's pretty thick.
02:01:10
◼
►
Hold it up so I can take a picture of this.
02:01:12
◼
►
If I take all the money out of it...
02:01:13
◼
►
No, don't take the money out. That's cheating.
02:01:14
◼
►
There's too much money in it.
02:01:15
◼
►
How many iPhones thick is it?
02:01:17
◼
►
Yeah, seriously. That's thick.
02:01:18
◼
►
Let's measure it. Let's measure it.
02:01:19
◼
►
measure. This is what my wall looks like most of the time with no money in
02:01:21
◼
►
okay, your back with no money in it. I would say it's roughly four iPhones
02:01:24
◼
►
thick. I think that's fair to say
02:01:26
◼
►
three with cases yeah, four with cases it's tapered to it's thinner at the
02:01:31
◼
►
end. It's like it's like the air yeah in the middle of the thickest part, which
02:01:34
◼
►
is the widest part as well. Yeah, the bulk of it's the bulk of its width. It
02:01:39
◼
►
is at least three, if not four iPhones thick. I like tri-folds better than
02:01:44
◼
►
then by folds. I guess you would call them. I just I just like the way the
02:01:47
◼
►
trifold goes together, but this is thicker than I would like it. I would like to get
02:01:52
◼
►
rid of a lot of these cards if they accepted Apple Pay everywhere, I'd get rid of more
02:01:55
◼
►
of them. So the problem is you're carrying around like eight layers of leather there
02:01:58
◼
►
when it's folded up. Yeah, I know. Yeah, the whole trifold thing, like it's appealing for
02:02:04
◼
►
second because you know, can fold it on top of itself and it seems to take up a lot less
02:02:08
◼
►
space than a single fold or bi-fold I guess wallet, but it is insane! Every trifold wallet
02:02:14
◼
►
I've ever seen or had in my completely barbaric days of my youth, they were all like three
02:02:21
◼
►
feet thick. And this one is three feet thick.
02:02:24
◼
►
This wallet may be older than you, Casey. It's a very old wallet.
02:02:27
◼
►
Well it's time for you to upgrade.
02:02:28
◼
►
You know why? Because you can't keep it in your pocket so it doesn't wear, it doesn't
02:02:31
◼
►
wear at all.
02:02:32
◼
►
That's true. It's actually wearing a little bit finally. I don't know.
02:02:35
◼
►
So what kind of wallet do I have, Jon? Do you know?
02:02:37
◼
►
I have no idea.
02:02:38
◼
►
Because you've never seen it. Because it's in my pocket. I don't have to take it out
02:02:41
◼
►
of my pocket when I sit down.
02:02:42
◼
►
Amen, brother.
02:02:43
◼
►
The only reason I brought this with me is because my hotel keycard thing is in it.
02:02:47
◼
►
That's why I have it with me at all.
02:02:49
◼
►
I bring this with me to and from work every day, but it's not in my pockets ever.
02:02:52
◼
►
It's in my backpack.
02:02:53
◼
►
So you're one of those lunatics that every time you sit down, it's like strip everything
02:02:57
◼
►
out of my pockets?
02:02:58
◼
►
No, it's in my backpack.
02:02:59
◼
►
My wallet is in my backpack.
02:03:00
◼
►
I don't put it in my pocket.
02:03:02
◼
►
That's where my wallet is.
02:03:03
◼
►
That's insane.
02:03:04
◼
►
That's weird.
02:03:05
◼
►
The whole time we were at WWC, it was in my backpack.
02:03:07
◼
►
That's insane to me.
02:03:08
◼
►
Because if you lose your backpack, you lose your wallet.
02:03:10
◼
►
It's on my back.
02:03:11
◼
►
You can't get on the plane.
02:03:12
◼
►
I was like, "Where's it going?"
02:03:13
◼
►
when you're in the sessions and then you're not gonna get on the darn plane
02:03:15
◼
►
to go home to your family because you lost your license. I'm not gonna lose my backpack anyway.
02:03:19
◼
►
It's not, you know, I have more problems finding a place to put my phone because my phone I can't
02:03:23
◼
►
really keep it in my front pocket when I sit down because I have trouble getting it out because it's so damn big.
02:03:27
◼
►
Is it too thin? No, it's so, I'm afraid I'm gonna bend it.
02:03:31
◼
►
Maybe it's already bent. I don't even want to look. Oh god. You're seriously turning away with
02:03:39
◼
►
revulsion at the thought of it. I don't know if it's bent but now I can't look away.
02:03:43
◼
►
Is it bent? I don't know. Just throw it to me. I'll set it on its table.
02:03:47
◼
►
We're not gonna know. It's like dead pixels. So in summary, I have actually, I've switched
02:03:52
◼
►
from a single fold wallet to this, what is this, a Yubi wallet? It was a
02:03:57
◼
►
Kickstarter and to be honest it's a year or two old and I kind of need to get a
02:04:00
◼
►
new one because some of the elastic is falling down. But this is thicker. God,
02:04:04
◼
►
God, Marco, that's ridiculously thin.
02:04:06
◼
►
What do you have in there?
02:04:10
◼
►
- Three credit cards, driver's license,
02:04:12
◼
►
a metro card for the New York City subway,
02:04:14
◼
►
which I hardly ever use,
02:04:15
◼
►
and about six bills folded in half.
02:04:18
◼
►
- You have zero business cards in there, though.
02:04:20
◼
►
- That's true.
02:04:21
◼
►
- How will you know the phone number
02:04:22
◼
►
of the person who cuts your hair?
02:04:25
◼
►
- I've never called the person.
02:04:26
◼
►
- Are you being serious right now?
02:04:27
◼
►
- I have my hair.
02:04:28
◼
►
I have the business card of the person who cuts--
02:04:29
◼
►
- You have an information phone
02:04:30
◼
►
that can store these things.
02:04:32
◼
►
- I always use the business card.
02:04:33
◼
►
- I got a business card for a restaurant
02:04:34
◼
►
that's no longer open.
02:04:36
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- Give me that business card right now
02:04:37
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and throwing it away.
02:04:38
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Give it to me right now.
02:04:40
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Take it out.
02:04:40
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- This was a good place.
02:04:41
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- John has thrown me the business card.
02:04:43
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- I tried to.
02:04:44
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- It's on the floor.
02:04:45
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That's amazing.
02:04:46
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So that's what you're keeping in there?
02:04:49
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- I don't keep receipts.
02:04:50
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That's usually the problem.
02:04:50
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People keep receipts.
02:04:51
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I have a bunch of business cards and things.
02:04:53
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I have my hair cutting place.
02:04:54
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I have my insurance agent.
02:04:57
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- Why do you have your insurance agent
02:04:59
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on freaking the wallet equivalent of speed dial?
02:05:01
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I have my parking ticket for the airport.
02:05:05
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I have the Chestnut Hill Apple Store thing in here.
02:05:09
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- Oh my God.
02:05:10
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- I have my AAA card.
02:05:12
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- I got credit cards.
02:05:13
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- What year is this?
02:05:14
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- My driver's license.
02:05:15
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My health insurance card.
02:05:17
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- Oh God, this is ridiculous.
02:05:20
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- Anyway, yeah, it could be thinner.
02:05:22
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The real problem is the amount of money that I have in here
02:05:25
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is making it thick.
02:05:26
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And so it is sensitive to small changes like that.
02:05:28
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- That's one of the problems.
02:05:29
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- Humblebrag, by the way.
02:05:31
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They're small bills.