ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I know this is pre-follow-up and that's kind of against the rules to put anything before follow-up in the show deliberately

00:00:06 ◼   ► But John isn't here right now and so I can get away with it because I say I can

00:00:12 ◼   ► I wanted to tell you guys that I have

00:00:16 ◼   ► Amended and changed my water routine for when I record

00:00:20 ◼   ► The reason I've done that is because I have now killed Erin's laptop twice. This is the mighty mug

00:00:27 ◼   ► I believe it's called and

00:00:29 ◼   ► What's amazing about it is if I push on it, it doesn't fall over yet if I just pick it up

00:00:36 ◼   ► It works. No problem. Let me get the mic closer so you can get a so I can hear the water not spilling on the laptop

00:00:42 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. So here we go. I'm pushing

00:00:44 ◼   ► Nothing's happening. How amazing is that? And then if I just pick it up no problem

00:00:50 ◼   ► So, yeah, so I just want to let you know that my water situation is now better because of underscore David Smith

00:00:58 ◼   ► so I appreciate that. That guy makes everything better. He really does. And you know what

00:01:01 ◼   ► else makes everything better? Doing a crossover with Rocket. And so the voice that you hear

00:01:08 ◼   ► that is not John Syracuse is a friend of the show, Christina Warren. So Christina, welcome.

00:01:13 ◼   ► I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to be here. I feel like I'm not sure if you guys got the

00:01:19 ◼   ► good end of the bargain or the bad end because so John is on Syracuse is on Rocket right

00:01:25 ◼   ► now, the podcast I do with Brianna Wu and Simone de Rochefort, and I'm here.

00:01:31 ◼   ► And I'm super excited, but...

00:01:33 ◼   ► As are we.

00:01:34 ◼   ► As are we.

00:01:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Some of the audience members are not.

00:01:37 ◼   ► I'm already seeing some hate tweets come through, which is awesome.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Send them on forward, like, "Seriously, Phil Slip, dude, hate on."

00:01:44 ◼   ► It's already happening?

00:01:45 ◼   ► It's already happening, which honestly is awesome.

00:01:48 ◼   ► And here's the thing.

00:01:49 ◼   ► I mean, obviously I don't deal with as much stuff as a lot of women on Twitter.

00:01:52 ◼   ► I'm very fortunate.

00:01:53 ◼   ► But I have a very thick skin because I've been in the media business for a long time,

00:01:59 ◼   ► so honestly, you can hate, I hope the listeners don't hate me, I hope they like me, but if

00:02:04 ◼   ► they don't, that's okay and it's not gonna hurt my feelings.

00:02:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, so we're just doing a little something special.

00:02:09 ◼   ► We're, like I said, sending John over to Rocket.

00:02:12 ◼   ► We have Christina here, which is excellent.

00:02:14 ◼   ► - And by the way, Rocket is really good.

00:02:16 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:02:17 ◼   ► - I think I keep not saying this in public 'cause I keep thinking I've already said it.

00:02:23 ◼   ► And I don't want to like say it like as like a tack on when we're talking about women in

00:02:27 ◼   ► tech because that kind of seems like kind of patronizing.

00:02:29 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:02:30 ◼   ► But I really, it is, not only is it very good, not only have I heard every episode, but it

00:02:34 ◼   ► has quickly joined one of my top few priority slots in Overcast that when it comes out,

00:02:38 ◼   ► I listen to it usually same day, if not the next day because it is just one of my favorites.

00:02:45 ◼   ► Yep.

00:02:46 ◼   ► Well, thank you.

00:02:47 ◼   ► I'm super, super psyched to see, to hear that.

00:02:48 ◼   ► We've really enjoyed it.

00:02:49 ◼   ► been a fun process. And I don't know about Brie, but I know that I totally went into

00:02:55 ◼   ► it like, yeah, we totally want to do an ATP, but with kind of female voices. So thanks

00:03:01 ◼   ► you guys for having created, accidentally, such a great show that we could copy and profit

00:03:06 ◼   ► from.

00:03:07 ◼   ► I agree with what Marco said, and less has turned into a two-hour accidental mutual admiration

00:03:13 ◼   ► Society, let's just start with some follow-up as per usual.

00:03:18 ◼   ► So I made-

00:03:19 ◼   ► Wait, are we allowed to do follow-up without Jon?

00:03:21 ◼   ► Dude, whatever.

00:03:22 ◼   ► He's not here to yell at us.

00:03:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I was gonna say, like, really?

00:03:24 ◼   ► We should go through it in like 30 seconds.

00:03:26 ◼   ► I mean, I can complain if you guys need somebody to complain on him and Haa about stuff.

00:03:31 ◼   ► I can do that.

00:03:32 ◼   ► I'd be curious to hear that.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Seriously.

00:03:34 ◼   ► So first of all, how many windows do you have open right now, Christina?

00:03:38 ◼   ► Uh, one, two, three, four, five, six.

00:03:42 ◼   ► So only six.

00:03:43 ◼   ► - That's, okay, you are definitely not a John replacement.

00:03:46 ◼   ► - No.

00:03:47 ◼   ► - None of us can be.

00:03:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's just not it.

00:03:52 ◼   ► All right, so some quick follow-up.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Number one, the Showbot is apparently not working

00:03:56 ◼   ► for the first time in months,

00:03:58 ◼   ► and I'm not gonna try to diagnose that right now.

00:04:00 ◼   ► - Oh, John missed that?

00:04:01 ◼   ► - I know.

00:04:02 ◼   ► See, this is already taking a turn we didn't expect.

00:04:06 ◼   ► This might relate to the fact that Heroku

00:04:08 ◼   ► has very recently changed their pricing,

00:04:11 ◼   ► and I'm not sure if the show bot has now run afoul of that

00:04:15 ◼   ► and I am not going to diagnose while I'm on the air.

00:04:18 ◼   ► - Is this like one of those exciting new opportunities

00:04:19 ◼   ► that really just makes everything worse and more expensive?

00:04:22 ◼   ► - Uh, simple answer, yes.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Long answer, maybe.

00:04:26 ◼   ► - Did the answer begin with, we're happy to announce.

00:04:29 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:04:30 ◼   ► We're incredibly excited to tell you

00:04:31 ◼   ► about how we've made our service worse and more expensive.

00:04:33 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Salesforce is happy to say that we finally figured out

00:04:36 ◼   ► a way to profit off of all of these,

00:04:38 ◼   ► what are they called, raptors?

00:04:41 ◼   ► What are they?

00:04:42 ◼   ► - Dinos.

00:04:43 ◼   ► - Dinos, thank you.

00:04:44 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:04:44 ◼   ► - I like that better.

00:04:46 ◼   ► See, to me, it's all like,

00:04:48 ◼   ► these are all voodoo made up terms by Heroku,

00:04:50 ◼   ► so that's, Raptor's just as good as any.

00:04:53 ◼   ► - Exactly, exactly.

00:04:54 ◼   ► So yeah, so I apologize for the showbot.

00:04:57 ◼   ► Really quickly, I alluded to Aaron's laptop earlier.

00:04:59 ◼   ► Aaron's laptop is on its way to the depot,

00:05:01 ◼   ► whatever the depot is.

00:05:03 ◼   ► I brought it to the Apple Store on Monday, on Memorial Day.

00:05:07 ◼   ► I fessed up and said water was spilled on it,

00:05:10 ◼   ► and this was about halfway through the conversation with the genius, and the moment I said water

00:05:14 ◼   ► was spilled on it, the conversation effectively ended.

00:05:17 ◼   ► Yep.

00:05:18 ◼   ► And he said, "Okay, that means it's a Tier 4 repair," which apparently, obviously, there's

00:05:23 ◼   ► multiple tiers for sending it to the depot, "that's a Tier 4 repair, which will be $665

00:05:28 ◼   ► for parts no matter how much or little needs to be repaired, plus $100 for labor plus tax."

00:05:33 ◼   ► So I'm in for $755, I think it is, I'm sorry.

00:05:38 ◼   ► plus tax, I'll get it back in about a week.

00:05:41 ◼   ► - This is for a MacBook Air, correct?

00:05:43 ◼   ► - That's right, this is for a eight month old MacBook Air

00:05:46 ◼   ► that I got Erin for her birthday last year

00:05:49 ◼   ► because I'm the best husband ever.

00:05:50 ◼   ► - Totally, isn't it a shame that AppleCare+ on the phone,

00:05:54 ◼   ► on the watch, and the iPad will cover water damage

00:05:56 ◼   ► but they don't offer AppleCare+ for the laptops

00:05:59 ◼   ► because that would totally be amazing.

00:06:02 ◼   ► I would pay another $50 if I could get water damage

00:06:06 ◼   ► covered on my MacBook.

00:06:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, in retrospect.

00:06:09 ◼   ► - I don't know, on the other hand, though,

00:06:10 ◼   ► how much would they charge for that?

00:06:11 ◼   ► Because regular AppleCare on that is, what,

00:06:14 ◼   ► 250 and 350 for the 15s?

00:06:16 ◼   ► - Well, that's what I'm saying.

00:06:17 ◼   ► I mean, if you added, say, another $50 on,

00:06:19 ◼   ► I personally would probably pony up for it, but--

00:06:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, but see, but it wouldn't be,

00:06:23 ◼   ► that's the problem, it wouldn't be only 50 bucks.

00:06:25 ◼   ► Like, you know, like we have,

00:06:27 ◼   ► 'cause what is it with the watch?

00:06:28 ◼   ► It's 100, or with the phone, even,

00:06:30 ◼   ► it's 100 bucks for regular--

00:06:31 ◼   ► - With the phone, it's 100 for regular,

00:06:34 ◼   ► and then it is 75 for a replacement

00:06:37 ◼   ► if you need to have it replaced,

00:06:38 ◼   ► and you can have two of those.

00:06:40 ◼   ► For the iPad, it's 100, yeah, it's also 100,

00:06:43 ◼   ► but it is $50 per replacement.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Apparently, I'm assuming, just based on this,

00:06:49 ◼   ► they must replace a whole lot more iPhones

00:06:51 ◼   ► than they do iPads, and that's why they charge

00:06:53 ◼   ► a higher replacement fee.

00:06:55 ◼   ► And in fact, the replacement fee went up this year,

00:06:58 ◼   ► like it was $50, and now it's 75.

00:07:01 ◼   ► But if you're like me and you're walking up some steps

00:07:06 ◼   ► after a meeting with some people,

00:07:07 ◼   ► and you literally fall forward and flip,

00:07:09 ◼   ► you trip on your flip-flops and shatter your phone screen

00:07:12 ◼   ► right before XOXO, which coincidentally is the day

00:07:16 ◼   ► before the iPhone 6 pre-orders go on sale.

00:07:18 ◼   ► Like, you need a phone and you go like,

00:07:21 ◼   ► "Okay, well, I gotta go to the Apple store

00:07:22 ◼   ► "and get a new one."

00:07:24 ◼   ► And AppleCare+ came through, I mean,

00:07:26 ◼   ► and people were like, "Oh, you could have just waited

00:07:28 ◼   ► "and pre-ordered the 6."

00:07:29 ◼   ► I was like, first of all,

00:07:30 ◼   ► I couldn't actually swipe on the screen.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Like, I would get glass in my fingers.

00:07:33 ◼   ► Second of all, the phone has to go to my husband

00:07:35 ◼   ► because he gets my tech hand-me-downs.

00:07:37 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:07:38 ◼   ► - And it would probably cause problems

00:07:40 ◼   ► if you gave him a shattered untouchable phone.

00:07:42 ◼   ► - Oh, completely.

00:07:43 ◼   ► No, we already did that with the iPhone 4 or 4S.

00:07:47 ◼   ► - How did that go over?

00:07:48 ◼   ► - It was okay.

00:07:51 ◼   ► That one wasn't that bad, but it was a little bit chipped

00:07:56 ◼   ► and I never ended up, this was before they had,

00:07:58 ◼   ► I think the AppleCare that covered the damage,

00:08:01 ◼   ► the accidental damage or whatever.

00:08:03 ◼   ► And so it worked fine,

00:08:06 ◼   ► and then he ended up doing something to it.

00:08:07 ◼   ► And then I think he wound up giving it to a homeless person.

00:08:10 ◼   ► Only in New York, you guys.

00:08:11 ◼   ► - Okay, I'm not even sure where to go from there.

00:08:14 ◼   ► - I know. - Oh my goodness.

00:08:15 ◼   ► So yeah, so Aaron's laptop is at the depot getting repaired.

00:08:18 ◼   ► I'm already getting suggestions in the chat room

00:08:20 ◼   ► about what I could or should have done.

00:08:23 ◼   ► With respect to those of you making those suggestions,

00:08:25 ◼   ► don't care, it's already done.

00:08:26 ◼   ► This ship has sailed.

00:08:27 ◼   ► It is what it is.

00:08:28 ◼   ► - I am curious though,

00:08:29 ◼   ► because once you're talking almost 800 bucks to repair it,

00:08:33 ◼   ► that's fairly close to the price of replacing it, right?

00:08:35 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:08:36 ◼   ► - So I'm curious why you chose to go that route.

00:08:38 ◼   ► I mean, is it just like the extra three or 400 bucks

00:08:40 ◼   ► you guys thought was worth it?

00:08:41 ◼   ► - That's enough.

00:08:42 ◼   ► - The three or $400 just didn't seem worth it to me

00:08:45 ◼   ► since the machine was so darn close to new.

00:08:47 ◼   ► And Erin doesn't have particularly

00:08:50 ◼   ► robust needs of her computer.

00:08:52 ◼   ► If anything, I'm the one who has bigger needs

00:08:56 ◼   ► in so far as it needs to be able to withstand spills

00:08:59 ◼   ► and do podcasting and whatnot.

00:09:01 ◼   ► So it just didn't seem worth it to me to spend another three or four hundred dollars just

00:09:06 ◼   ► to get something brand new.

00:09:07 ◼   ► And this tier four repair is basically going to go through the entire computer and replace

00:09:12 ◼   ► darn near all of it.

00:09:13 ◼   ► So I didn't see the point in doing anything different.

00:09:16 ◼   ► People are saying, "Oh, well, you could have sold it for parts and gotten a new one."

00:09:20 ◼   ► Yes, I'm sure I could have.

00:09:21 ◼   ► I could have gazelle'd it perhaps.

00:09:22 ◼   ► Yes, I'm sure I could have.

00:09:23 ◼   ► But this seemed like the...

00:09:25 ◼   ► They probably test for that.

00:09:26 ◼   ► Well, they do.

00:09:27 ◼   ► But Gazelle will give you a discounted amount of money

00:09:30 ◼   ► if they find that it's damaged or something.

00:09:31 ◼   ► So if you sold it to Gazelle saying it has water damage,

00:09:34 ◼   ► they would say, "Okay, well, we value this at $300."

00:09:37 ◼   ► In which case, though, you'd still wind up

00:09:39 ◼   ► spending the same amount of money anyway buying a new one.

00:09:42 ◼   ► - But then you'd have a new one.

00:09:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, but he's basically gonna get a new one anyway.

00:09:46 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:09:47 ◼   ► Well, there are a couple things that he,

00:09:49 ◼   ► like so there's no, you don't have Broadwell, right?

00:09:51 ◼   ► - Well, that's what I was going to say.

00:09:52 ◼   ► You are actually correct.

00:09:53 ◼   ► The new one would have Broadwell,

00:09:55 ◼   ► Whereas, you know, the 2014 just had Haswell, so.

00:09:58 ◼   ► - And the new one would also have a warranty

00:10:00 ◼   ► that started today.

00:10:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's true.

00:10:02 ◼   ► I mean, you could have quarterbacked this differently,

00:10:06 ◼   ► no argument, but it just, I just wanted it done and fixed.

00:10:10 ◼   ► And this was the most reasonable way

00:10:12 ◼   ► in which I felt I could do that

00:10:13 ◼   ► without spending $300 that seemed to me to be unnecessary.

00:10:17 ◼   ► It is not, it certainly I would have gotten,

00:10:20 ◼   ► or Erin would have gotten things for that $300,

00:10:23 ◼   ► but it wasn't a big enough difference

00:10:25 ◼   ► really justify it in my personal estimation. You, as in the collective you, may not agree,

00:10:30 ◼   ► and that's okay. And we're going to hear about it. And we're going to hear about it.

00:10:33 ◼   ► No, you know, the thing too is that since I think that they'll be able to just like move all the

00:10:37 ◼   ► data over or whatever, I mean that, you know, I mean, obviously, I'm sure you have an entire

00:10:41 ◼   ► time machine backup strategy and all that stuff done, you know, we all have our synologies,

00:10:45 ◼   ► I think we all have the same model, the 1813 plus. But, you know, you have a whole setup going that

00:10:52 ◼   ► way, but even just the process of having to reset everything up again, I think it'll come back with

00:10:57 ◼   ► its hard drive and everything intact. I mean, that is probably worth not getting the new machine and

00:11:01 ◼   ► having to set it all up again. Exactly. It's just not worth it to me. So that's the way it is. And

00:11:07 ◼   ► I'm already getting sick of this follow-up. So let's move on. We got a lot of follow-up about

00:11:12 ◼   ► running with your iPhone. And quite honestly, I don't care because nobody really has good answers.

00:11:18 ◼   ► So let me, let me, since Jon isn't here, just say, nobody really knows what the hell is going on.

00:11:23 ◼   ► And that's basically the end of the meeting.

00:11:25 ◼   ► Right.

00:11:25 ◼   ► I love that we just got to skip right over this.

00:11:27 ◼   ► I actually, just about 15 minutes ago, right before the show, I was, for the first time, running briefly,

00:11:36 ◼   ► because I don't run, but running briefly, and then walking a lot between the running brieflys,

00:11:40 ◼   ► with my watch with no phone, because I had to fill my green circle for the day.

00:11:46 ◼   ► Right!

00:11:47 ◼   ► And it's been raining all day as, Christina, you know, being in New York.

00:11:49 ◼   ► Yes. Well, it started raining later this afternoon, but it's been gross out regardless.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Well, yeah, it's been pouring rain for my entire potential dog walking window that I

00:11:59 ◼   ► usually take, which is basically any time after four. So I knew I'd be recording this

00:12:04 ◼   ► show until almost midnight in all likelihood. So, sorry, Christina, if you weren't prepared

00:12:10 ◼   ► for how long it was going to take, I'm not sure what he told you.

00:12:13 ◼   ► I didn't know it was going to go on that long. I mean, I'm totally cool with that. My husband,

00:12:16 ◼   ► who's in his office, like he might get a little,

00:12:19 ◼   ► no, he'll be fine.

00:12:20 ◼   ► - He'll be fine.

00:12:21 ◼   ► - He's got the Plexbox and Sonar,

00:12:24 ◼   ► which is this amazing torrenting news group app.

00:12:27 ◼   ► Do you guys know about Sonar?

00:12:28 ◼   ► - No, I don't think we're supposed to know

00:12:29 ◼   ► about things like that.

00:12:30 ◼   ► - No, we're probably not supposed to talk

00:12:31 ◼   ► about things like this, but it's amazing.

00:12:33 ◼   ► It's basically-- - Right, like Unison.

00:12:34 ◼   ► - Kind of, it's basically an app

00:12:35 ◼   ► that it has a really good interface, a web app,

00:12:37 ◼   ► that you can connect it to a private torrent tracker

00:12:40 ◼   ► or to news groups, which is how we have it set up,

00:12:42 ◼   ► and it'll basically find any TV show you want,

00:12:45 ◼   ► and it'll find it in whatever quality you want it to do, and then it'll tag it and label

00:12:50 ◼   ► it and title it exactly as you want and file it on your NAS or whatever the way you want

00:12:56 ◼   ► it and then Plex just imports it in and all of a sudden you have every episode of Keeping

00:13:02 ◼   ► Up With The Kardashians. Ever. True story.

00:13:05 ◼   ► So it's kind of sort of popcorn time, but not necessarily about the streaming portion.

00:13:11 ◼   ► Exactly, because it's actually locally downloading it. It's just making it super easy to do

00:13:15 ◼   ► do. So for instance, I wanted to watch Keeping Up with the Kardashians, but also we have

00:13:20 ◼   ► all of HBO Silicon Valley. And the thing is that we pay for HBO and HBO Go. And I actually

00:13:25 ◼   ► have like a subscription to HBO Now, which I know was superfluous, but I got a six month

00:13:30 ◼   ► subscription for free. So I've got that in addition to the HBO we pay for, which has

00:13:34 ◼   ► all the on demand stuff, but there's just something convenient about having it through

00:13:37 ◼   ► one interface. I don't know.

00:13:39 ◼   ► How is HBO Now in general?

00:13:41 ◼   ► It's good, I mean it's identical to HBO Go.

00:13:44 ◼   ► So you don't have live content, meaning there's not live linear programming, but basically

00:13:48 ◼   ► within an hour or two of it airing on TV it's available in the app.

00:13:53 ◼   ► It looks really good on the Apple TV and the iPhone and iPad apps are really good.

00:13:57 ◼   ► The web interface is good too.

00:13:59 ◼   ► HBO Go recently updated their apps to basically look the same so that's an improvement.

00:14:03 ◼   ► But no, I mean it's good because you have the entire catalog of not only currently airing

00:14:07 ◼   ► shows but their whole like every HBO owned production. So for instance you don't have

00:14:13 ◼   ► the Larry Sanders show because that was done by Sony but everything from Oz which was in

00:14:18 ◼   ► 1997 basically onward, every original series is on there. So you know Oz, The Wire, Sex

00:14:23 ◼   ► and the City, The Sopranos, Big Love, you know obviously Game of Thrones, Girls, Veep,

00:14:31 ◼   ► I mean everything is there as well as a lot of the documentaries as well as whatever first

00:14:37 ◼   ► run movies they've got for that month and then whatever catalog titles they happen to

00:14:40 ◼   ► have. And no, I mean it's a comedy specials, like I found an old comedy special from Kathy

00:14:47 ◼   ► Griffin from like 1995 or 1996 that I probably hadn't seen since 1996. And no, I mean it's

00:14:55 ◼   ► interesting just the amount of content that's there, it's really nice. And so it's, I mean

00:15:00 ◼   ► basically everything you would get in HBO Go but without having to have the cable subscription.

00:15:05 ◼   ► Excellent. All right, any other follow-up? Because we might have made record time through

00:15:09 ◼   ► this and I'm pretty smug about that right now.

00:15:11 ◼   ► Oh, Jon's going to be so mad.

00:15:14 ◼   ► He's going to kill us.

00:15:15 ◼   ► This is great.

00:15:16 ◼   ► Yeah. Oh, he's, God, he's going to get so mad. The listeners are going to get so mad.

00:15:19 ◼   ► And the sad thing is they're going to blame you even though this is really my fault.

00:15:21 ◼   ► No, I mean, they can blame me. Blame Film Girl, that's fine. #BlameFilmGirl. No, but

00:15:28 ◼   ► it is interesting. I'm with you guys. Nobody really knows how the step things are updated.

00:15:33 ◼   ► It was interesting to me, Marco,

00:15:34 ◼   ► you were talking about how you had to

00:15:36 ◼   ► get your green circle.

00:15:37 ◼   ► So I've been reviewing the Pebble Time,

00:15:39 ◼   ► the new Pebble smartwatch,

00:15:41 ◼   ► and so I had to take off my Apple watch

00:15:43 ◼   ► for a couple of days,

00:15:45 ◼   ► and the thing I've missed the most, to be totally honest,

00:15:48 ◼   ► has been my green circles.

00:15:50 ◼   ► - That's surprising.

00:15:51 ◼   ► Are you using it with an iPhone or Android?

00:15:53 ◼   ► - iPhone.

00:15:54 ◼   ► - Are you allowed to say, like, how is it,

00:15:56 ◼   ► or do you wanna save it for your show?

00:15:57 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, no, I can't.

00:15:58 ◼   ► I mean, my review went live today, that's fine.

00:16:01 ◼   ► I like it. It's an interesting product because I feel like they had a real head start for

00:16:08 ◼   ► a long time, but obviously the market has changed. Is it as nice as an Apple Watch?

00:16:13 ◼   ► Obviously not. Even looking at it, it looks like a sports watch. Having said that, I spent

00:16:19 ◼   ► almost $800 with tax and everything on my Apple Watch. Because I spent that much money

00:16:23 ◼   ► on the stainless steel with the classic leather buckle, I don't really feel comfortable running

00:16:28 ◼   ► or working out with it if I'm being completely honest.

00:16:30 ◼   ► I just, I mean, that's just too much money for me to have my wrist to want to get scratched

00:16:34 ◼   ► up.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Maybe other people feel differently, but for me, it doesn't exactly feel like a great

00:16:38 ◼   ► sports device for me.

00:16:40 ◼   ► Whereas the Pebble is 200 bucks, you know, it's plastic and has an e-paper display

00:16:46 ◼   ► and is waterproof and has a really good battery life.

00:16:50 ◼   ► And so that's the sort of thing, like if I was going out running or working out or

00:16:53 ◼   ► whatever, I'd be like, "Hey, if something happens to this, no big deal."

00:16:57 ◼   ► I mean it basically has taken everything that was good about the Pebble and they've improved

00:17:00 ◼   ► upon it.

00:17:01 ◼   ► The problem is that for $200, like I gave it, we have this thing, Mashable Choice, which

00:17:05 ◼   ► is like a good housekeeping seal of approval or whatever.

00:17:08 ◼   ► And I gave it the Mashable Choice and that doesn't mean that I think it's better than

00:17:11 ◼   ► the Apple Watch because that's not what this means.

00:17:13 ◼   ► It just means would you recommend this to someone.

00:17:15 ◼   ► And under the right circumstances I totally would.

00:17:17 ◼   ► I mean it's a $200 watch that does a really good job doing what it does and it actually

00:17:23 ◼   ► works fairly well with iOS, although it works better with Android.

00:17:27 ◼   ► But the hard thing is when I say, "Would you buy this over the Apple Watch?" or "Would

00:17:32 ◼   ► you say don't buy the Apple Watch?"

00:17:34 ◼   ► Even though my Apple Watch was almost four times the cost, it's hard for me to kind

00:17:38 ◼   ► of compare them because they are different devices.

00:17:41 ◼   ► I feel like at a $350 watch versus $200, I'd still give the edge to the Apple Watch and

00:17:46 ◼   ► that's going to be a different experience and obviously have a different ecosystem.

00:17:50 ◼   ► But for the current product, if you're somebody who doesn't care about the looks and you're

00:17:55 ◼   ► not as invested in the Apple ecosystem, I think it's certainly a ton better than Android

00:18:00 ◼   ► Wear, like light years ahead of Android Wear, even though it's not as flashy or shiny.

00:18:05 ◼   ► And it does a lot of the same things that you can do now on an Apple Watch.

00:18:09 ◼   ► Now will that change once WWDC rolls around and kind of next wave of apps and things like

00:18:15 ◼   ► that happen?

00:18:16 ◼   ► That could change the conversation.

00:18:18 ◼   ► And I certainly worry about the company's longevity going forward.

00:18:22 ◼   ► But it's not a bad product, and especially for a sports watch,

00:18:25 ◼   ► which is why I backed it on Kickstarter.

00:18:27 ◼   ► A, I like to back the little guys.

00:18:29 ◼   ► B, this is gonna be something that I use

00:18:32 ◼   ► when I ride my bike or I go running,

00:18:34 ◼   ► and I don't wanna scratch up the chrome

00:18:37 ◼   ► on the stainless steel Apple Watch.

00:18:40 ◼   ► - See, I think that's an interesting point

00:18:42 ◼   ► to go into a little bit.

00:18:44 ◼   ► Is there kind of a problem

00:18:45 ◼   ► that Apple made the steel watch too nice?

00:18:47 ◼   ► - Yeah. - To me, I decided,

00:18:49 ◼   ► because I have the same one as you, except for 42,

00:18:51 ◼   ► you have 38, right?

00:18:52 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:18:53 ◼   ► - But yeah, so I have the stainless steel 42

00:18:54 ◼   ► with the classic buckle and I love it.

00:18:56 ◼   ► You don't have the modern buckle yet, do you?

00:18:58 ◼   ► - No, because they're not shipping

00:19:00 ◼   ► and that was why I had to cancel my modern buckle order.

00:19:03 ◼   ► Well, I didn't cancel it.

00:19:04 ◼   ► I placed the second order

00:19:06 ◼   ► and then canceled my modern buckle order

00:19:07 ◼   ► after I got my second order.

00:19:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, Tiff's modern buckle is scheduled,

00:19:11 ◼   ► the whole modern buckle watch is scheduled to be here

00:19:13 ◼   ► June 4th through 11th.

00:19:14 ◼   ► I haven't heard of any times earlier than that

00:19:16 ◼   ► for that model.

00:19:17 ◼   ► - No, that's literally, I didn't even have any date.

00:19:19 ◼   ► I just saw it in June, and I had so much,

00:19:22 ◼   ► I had serious like FOMO,

00:19:23 ◼   ► that's fear of missing out for the audience.

00:19:25 ◼   ► I had such serious FOMO about not having the Apple Watch

00:19:29 ◼   ► that I placed, it was like eight days after

00:19:32 ◼   ► it had started shipping, and I placed the second order,

00:19:34 ◼   ► and I placed the order on a Saturday,

00:19:36 ◼   ► and I got my watch on a Tuesday.

00:19:37 ◼   ► - That's insane. - It was.

00:19:39 ◼   ► And I was like, okay, you know what, worth it.

00:19:41 ◼   ► Because those 11 days without that Apple Watch, you guys.

00:19:45 ◼   ► I was like, I mean, it was bad.

00:19:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause you live on the internet.

00:19:48 ◼   ► I mean, come on. - I do, exactly.

00:19:50 ◼   ► It's like for me, of all people,

00:19:51 ◼   ► my nickname is C-Mac for Christ's sake.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Like, for me not to have the latest Apple product,

00:19:56 ◼   ► I really did, it was terrible.

00:19:58 ◼   ► So June 4th through 11th, is that what they said?

00:20:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, for a TIFFs, yeah.

00:20:01 ◼   ► - Cool, so yeah, I mean, she'll be one of the first people

00:20:04 ◼   ► that I've seen that has it.

00:20:05 ◼   ► You can't even order it by itself right now.

00:20:06 ◼   ► It still says unavailable.

00:20:08 ◼   ► But I will get the modern buckle

00:20:09 ◼   ► as soon as it ships separately.

00:20:11 ◼   ► I'll spend the 250 and get the pink band, but yeah.

00:20:15 ◼   ► - Our first sponsor this evening is our friends,

00:20:18 ◼   ► Once again, @fracture.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Fracture prints your photos in vivid color

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00:20:28 ◼   ► And don't forget to use code ATP15 for 15%

00:20:31 ◼   ► off your first order.

00:20:33 ◼   ► So, fracture prints are great.

00:20:35 ◼   ► We have them sponsor a lot.

00:20:37 ◼   ► So you've probably heard me say this over and over again,

00:20:39 ◼   ► but I'm gonna tell you again

00:20:40 ◼   ► because they are just that great.

00:20:42 ◼   ► They really, my office is full of fracture prints.

00:20:45 ◼   ► We keep getting more fracture prints.

00:20:47 ◼   ► people come over, they compliment the fracture prints.

00:20:50 ◼   ► Everyone loves these things, so here's what it is.

00:20:52 ◼   ► It is a printed photo on a piece of glass

00:20:55 ◼   ► that you can then hang directly on a wall

00:20:57 ◼   ► or stand up on a desk.

00:20:59 ◼   ► And it comes with everything you need right in the box.

00:21:01 ◼   ► It comes with the little screw to mount in the wall,

00:21:03 ◼   ► or you can, like I just use those little triangle hook

00:21:06 ◼   ► things that you get in hardware stores.

00:21:08 ◼   ► I just use those to hang them up,

00:21:09 ◼   ► 'cause they're a little bit shallower and make a small hole.

00:21:12 ◼   ► And these things are nice and lightweight,

00:21:14 ◼   ► so you don't need like some giant anchor

00:21:16 ◼   ► hold it in the wall like you do a big picture or a big piece of art. It's nice and lightweight

00:21:20 ◼   ► because it's a nice thin piece of glass and they print the photo right on the glass and

00:21:26 ◼   ► it's printed on the backside and it shines through so it looks like it's on the surface

00:21:29 ◼   ► but it has this nice glossy finish on it and it is, I can't tell you how good these things

00:21:34 ◼   ► look. It's almost like having a screen on the wall that's just always looking perfect.

00:21:40 ◼   ► It looks so good and everybody compliments these things when they come over to my house.

00:21:45 ◼   ► sees these and they're, "Oh, is that the fracture?"

00:21:46 ◼   ► Or if they don't know this, "Oh, what's that?"

00:21:48 ◼   ► They are great.

00:21:50 ◼   ► People are always very impressed.

00:21:51 ◼   ► And they make great gifts.

00:21:53 ◼   ► If you wanna send a gift to somebody,

00:21:54 ◼   ► if you wanna get a photo printed for your family

00:21:56 ◼   ► or whoever and send it to them.

00:21:57 ◼   ► - Father's Day is coming up.

00:21:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, Father's Day is coming up.

00:22:00 ◼   ► You can get a photo printed of or for your father

00:22:03 ◼   ► or grandfather, send it to them, whatever.

00:22:05 ◼   ► These are so great.

00:22:06 ◼   ► They make such great gifts.

00:22:07 ◼   ► They make such great decorations in your house.

00:22:09 ◼   ► And they are extremely, extremely affordably priced.

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00:22:15 ◼   ► by five inch square.

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00:22:18 ◼   ► they have all sorts of rectangles.

00:22:20 ◼   ► The prices are so reasonable.

00:22:22 ◼   ► I think, I forget what I paid for my big ones,

00:22:24 ◼   ► I think it was like 30 bucks.

00:22:25 ◼   ► I mean, they're so affordable.

00:22:28 ◼   ► And they're so good.

00:22:28 ◼   ► I even, I bought some, even when we didn't even have

00:22:31 ◼   ► an active coupon code, I bought some at full price myself,

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00:22:41 ◼   ► I really cannot say enough good things about fracture prints.

00:22:44 ◼   ► I would say compared to a custom frame job,

00:22:47 ◼   ► I have some custom frame things in my office too,

00:22:50 ◼   ► and custom framing is very expensive,

00:22:52 ◼   ► the result is very big and heavy,

00:22:54 ◼   ► and it kinda looks a little bit dated sometimes.

00:22:57 ◼   ► It can be done well, but it kinda looks a little bit dated.

00:22:58 ◼   ► Fracture prints are way more affordable,

00:23:02 ◼   ► and they look a lot better for the most part,

00:23:05 ◼   ► and they're just so clean and modern,

00:23:07 ◼   ► and you don't need to frame them.

00:23:09 ◼   ► They serve their own self-enclosed purpose.

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00:23:20 ◼   ► Thank you very much to Fracture

00:23:21 ◼   ► for sponsoring our show once again.

00:23:24 ◼   ► - Yep, Fractures are really, really wonderful.

00:23:26 ◼   ► The comments you made about it

00:23:28 ◼   ► looking like a screen on the wall,

00:23:29 ◼   ► had I not seen and actually owned a handful of Fractures,

00:23:32 ◼   ► I would have thought you were crazy, but no, really.

00:23:34 ◼   ► It really does look kinda like that.

00:23:36 ◼   ► It's really fantastic, so definitely check it out.

00:23:39 ◼   ► Big news today, and I mean that non-sarcastically, well, I think I mean that non-sarcastically.

00:23:46 ◼   ► The native Apple Watch SDK, which we all knew was coming eventually, apparently is coming

00:23:50 ◼   ► like soon, like apparently WWDC time.

00:23:54 ◼   ► So I think, Marco, you're probably most well-equipped to kind of kick this off.

00:23:59 ◼   ► How does that make you feel?

00:24:00 ◼   ► What do you think about that?

00:24:01 ◼   ► Does that change anything?

00:24:03 ◼   ► Did you cry happy tears?

00:24:04 ◼   ► What's going on?

00:24:05 ◼   ► - So I'm really happy about it, first of all.

00:24:07 ◼   ► I mean, whether or not I want to use it immediately is a different story.

00:24:11 ◼   ► We'll see when it comes out.

00:24:12 ◼   ► But I'm extremely happy and pleasantly surprised.

00:24:15 ◼   ► I was assuming, and I've said this a number of times, I've been assuming that it would

00:24:19 ◼   ► come in November and that we would be able to run the apps we create with it maybe next

00:24:25 ◼   ► spring with the launch of Watch 2 or whatever.

00:24:28 ◼   ► And so this is a good few months earlier than what I was expecting.

00:24:33 ◼   ► And that's, I'm just happy.

00:24:35 ◼   ► I'm happy.

00:24:36 ◼   ► anything about it yet. All we know is that today on, I think it was on stage, right?

00:24:41 ◼   ► At the...

00:24:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was at the code conference.

00:24:43 ◼   ► - Yes, so it was Jeff Williams, right?

00:24:46 ◼   ► - It was.

00:24:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, so Jeff Williams, the current Apple COO, was giving an interview and he said that

00:24:53 ◼   ► there would be a native SDK at WBC this year, so being announced in what, 10 days, two weeks,

00:24:59 ◼   ► whatever? So really soon. So this is, I mean, this is potentially really great. There are

00:25:05 ◼   ► There are so many questions.

00:25:07 ◼   ► I'm writing a blog post, I'm still drafting it,

00:25:10 ◼   ► of my giant list of questions about things

00:25:12 ◼   ► I'm curious about with the SDK.

00:25:15 ◼   ► Just some of the simple things like,

00:25:17 ◼   ► how much storage space do apps have to use?

00:25:19 ◼   ► Stuff like that, but if you actually think about

00:25:22 ◼   ► the reality of having native code access on the watch,

00:25:25 ◼   ► there really are quite a lot of questions

00:25:27 ◼   ► that come up as a result of that.

00:25:31 ◼   ► Just simple things like, okay, you have the app on the watch,

00:25:33 ◼   ► you have the app on the phone.

00:25:35 ◼   ► How do they communicate?

00:25:36 ◼   ► Can they share data?

00:25:37 ◼   ► Can they sync?

00:25:38 ◼   ► What happens when the watch is away from the phone and then it comes back?

00:25:41 ◼   ► Does it then have to sync the data manually?

00:25:43 ◼   ► There are so many little gotchas like that.

00:25:46 ◼   ► What kind of restrictions will there be on backgrounding?

00:25:47 ◼   ► As we know from the iPhone, backgrounding and multiprocessing and background network

00:25:54 ◼   ► fetches, background refresh, all these things that we take for granted now on the iPhone,

00:25:59 ◼   ► I'm betting we get almost none of that on the watch.

00:26:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean for battery alone I would think that that would kind of put the kibosh on

00:26:06 ◼   ► a lot of that.

00:26:08 ◼   ► What I think would be interesting, and we'll obviously have to wait another ten days to

00:26:11 ◼   ► see, going back to the Pebble a little bit, one of the interesting things that they've

00:26:15 ◼   ► done with their model, and their code execution model is very, very different and much more

00:26:20 ◼   ► limited than it is on the iPhone, but they have a thing where you can basically have

00:26:24 ◼   ► your JavaScript apps fully executed on the watch.

00:26:26 ◼   ► So there's some apps like the Swarm app that live there, and then there's some apps

00:26:31 ◼   ► apps that actually talk to a companion app on your phone, which is similar to what the

00:26:35 ◼   ► Apple Watch does now.

00:26:37 ◼   ► So I think it'll be interesting to see if they – because Pebble has had to deal with

00:26:40 ◼   ► some of those same constraints, granted at a much lower scale and with much higher memory

00:26:46 ◼   ► constraints.

00:26:47 ◼   ► But I think it'll be interesting to see how Apple's philosophy differs from what

00:26:50 ◼   ► other people have done, from what other platforms have done, and maybe what they've learned

00:26:54 ◼   ► from how those things have worked or haven't worked.

00:26:56 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:26:57 ◼   ► Because, I mean, this is why there – this is such an interesting question to start asking.

00:27:01 ◼   ► what will this be?

00:27:02 ◼   ► And we'll know in two weeks, at least we'll know a lot of it

00:27:06 ◼   ► but there's also, there's gonna be a, I think,

00:27:09 ◼   ► a political policy angle here, which is like,

00:27:14 ◼   ► every time Apple releases a new platform

00:27:17 ◼   ► or enables new, major new functionality,

00:27:20 ◼   ► it gives them an opportunity to enforce and shape

00:27:25 ◼   ► things to fit their political goals.

00:27:27 ◼   ► So for example, maybe watch apps will be required

00:27:31 ◼   ► be written in Swift for no technical reason,

00:27:33 ◼   ► just as a requirement to promote Swift adoption.

00:27:36 ◼   ► Maybe they'll, maybe certain things, you know,

00:27:38 ◼   ► I guarantee you that certain things that are allowed today

00:27:42 ◼   ► in iPhone apps won't be allowed in watch apps.

00:27:44 ◼   ► And we don't know what those things are yet,

00:27:46 ◼   ► but I'm sure there's a list, right?

00:27:48 ◼   ► And so, like, it's going to be interesting.

00:27:50 ◼   ► It's going to be possibly a little bit bumpy

00:27:54 ◼   ► on the, you know, as we get this going,

00:27:56 ◼   ► but I think it's gonna be really interesting,

00:27:58 ◼   ► and I'm just really curious to see,

00:28:00 ◼   ► I mean just basic stuff like the iPhone has,

00:28:03 ◼   ► like there's so much API available on the iPhone.

00:28:06 ◼   ► Like there are so many libraries and functions

00:28:09 ◼   ► and interface widgets.

00:28:11 ◼   ► I mean do we think it even runs UIKit?

00:28:14 ◼   ► I'm guessing it has its own simplified thing.

00:28:16 ◼   ► You know all we know is what WatchKit gives us

00:28:18 ◼   ► but WatchKit is really this like kind of,

00:28:20 ◼   ► I'm guessing WatchKit in a little like separate sandbox

00:28:24 ◼   ► it gives us to play in.

00:28:25 ◼   ► I'm guessing that has very little to do

00:28:27 ◼   ► with the native API.

00:28:30 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:28:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, one of the things I've been thinking about,

00:28:33 ◼   ► which I think is a kind of ridiculous idea,

00:28:36 ◼   ► but an interesting thought exercise if nothing else is,

00:28:39 ◼   ► what if Apple by way of app review,

00:28:42 ◼   ► and you kind of touched on this Marco

00:28:43 ◼   ► with your political stuff earlier,

00:28:46 ◼   ► what if Apple by way of app review basically says,

00:28:49 ◼   ► well, you don't really need to go native for this,

00:28:53 ◼   ► so we're gonna reject this,

00:28:54 ◼   ► back to the WatchKit APIs that you have today.

00:28:58 ◼   ► And so for things like Overcast, which this is probably a crummy example, but Overcast

00:29:03 ◼   ► may not absolutely need a native API.

00:29:07 ◼   ► So you know what?

00:29:09 ◼   ► Battery life is important to us.

00:29:10 ◼   ► Marco, I'm sorry, you're just going to have to stick to the remote view controller, whatever

00:29:14 ◼   ► it is, that you have today.

00:29:16 ◼   ► We're not going to allow you to use the native APIs because we just don't think you're worthy.

00:29:21 ◼   ► I doubt they'd do that, but it's certainly something

00:29:24 ◼   ► that they could do if they so desired.

00:29:27 ◼   ► - Oh, totally.

00:29:28 ◼   ► I mean, and like, I don't, right now, you know,

00:29:30 ◼   ► all I know, all we know is that they said

00:29:32 ◼   ► there's gonna be a native SDK,

00:29:34 ◼   ► and he mentioned that like games would be possible

00:29:36 ◼   ► and sensor access would be possible, so that's great.

00:29:39 ◼   ► But my app requires continuous audio playback

00:29:42 ◼   ► even when it is not showing on screen.

00:29:45 ◼   ► On the iPhones, that's allowed.

00:29:47 ◼   ► Will it be allowed on the watch?

00:29:48 ◼   ► We don't know.

00:29:49 ◼   ► I don't even know, like, will it even have

00:29:52 ◼   ► AV Foundation and Core Audio?

00:29:54 ◼   ► Will the watch expose APIs that can play sound

00:29:57 ◼   ► to the third-party SDK?

00:30:00 ◼   ► And we have absolutely no idea.

00:30:01 ◼   ► So it's like, there's so many big questions here, right?

00:30:05 ◼   ► Like so many big questions, and we won't know,

00:30:08 ◼   ► really, until next week.

00:30:10 ◼   ► We have no idea.

00:30:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm really curious to see where this goes.

00:30:14 ◼   ► And I'm wondering how much they allow.

00:30:17 ◼   ► So, as an example, let's suppose that there is no mechanism, Marco, that you can see wherein

00:30:24 ◼   ► you could actually put podcasts onto the watch and play them directly off the watch.

00:30:29 ◼   ► So you're limited to the same kind of situation you have today where the phone is the thing

00:30:33 ◼   ► actually doing playback.

00:30:35 ◼   ► Do you think, just sitting here now not really knowing anything, do you suspect that you

00:30:39 ◼   ► would still reach for a native API and SDK just on account of speed?

00:30:45 ◼   ► or was it actually not that interesting to you

00:30:46 ◼   ► if you can't get files onto the device?

00:30:50 ◼   ► - It is certainly interesting either way

00:30:52 ◼   ► because no matter what, I'm sure a native app

00:30:55 ◼   ► would be faster to launch, more responsive.

00:30:58 ◼   ► I could, like there are even just a lot of like

00:31:00 ◼   ► little annoying limitations about what you can do

00:31:03 ◼   ► in the UI with WatchKit, that it would be nice

00:31:06 ◼   ► to have more control over that and to have more,

00:31:09 ◼   ► you know, just more abilities of things you can do

00:31:13 ◼   ► 'cause WatchKit is very limited.

00:31:15 ◼   ► But if I can't actually get the files over there

00:31:18 ◼   ► and play them without a phone present,

00:31:20 ◼   ► which is what most people are asking me for,

00:31:21 ◼   ► 'cause like, you know-- - Exactly.

00:31:23 ◼   ► That's what they want, 'cause you can put music on the,

00:31:26 ◼   ► you can put certain data on the watch, obviously,

00:31:29 ◼   ► and they wanna be able to say,

00:31:29 ◼   ► hey, I wanna be able to listen to my podcast

00:31:31 ◼   ► and use Overcast so I can have my smart speed settings

00:31:35 ◼   ► to go through it or whatever.

00:31:37 ◼   ► - Exactly, I mean, and we know from the process

00:31:40 ◼   ► putting the music onto it that it kind of sucks.

00:31:43 ◼   ► Like it's kind of slow and clunky and manual.

00:31:46 ◼   ► And so right now I have no knowledge of whether or not

00:31:51 ◼   ► it is, whether or not an overcast native app on the watch

00:31:54 ◼   ► will be possible, like technically possible,

00:31:57 ◼   ► whether it will be allowed,

00:31:59 ◼   ► and whether it will suck or not.

00:32:01 ◼   ► I have no information on any of those things.

00:32:03 ◼   ► So I can't say right now whether I'm gonna make an app.

00:32:07 ◼   ► And then of course secondarily,

00:32:09 ◼   ► there's a question of whether it's worth it.

00:32:12 ◼   ► 'Cause there's gonna be a lot of complexity.

00:32:13 ◼   ► What I'm really curious about is just the realities

00:32:17 ◼   ► of syncing data between the two apps,

00:32:20 ◼   ► like between the watch app and the phone app.

00:32:22 ◼   ► We'll see in reality what that entails,

00:32:26 ◼   ► but that's a big question mark.

00:32:28 ◼   ► - No, that's a really good point

00:32:29 ◼   ► because that's gonna be slow already over Bluetooth

00:32:33 ◼   ► and obviously like how, what's your latency on that

00:32:36 ◼   ► and how long does it look for for a device

00:32:39 ◼   ► you know, so that it can keep things in sync.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Like how often does it, does it pull for that sort of thing?

00:32:45 ◼   ► Yeah, you're right.

00:32:46 ◼   ► But I think that, do you think it's possible

00:32:49 ◼   ► that maybe we could see kind of a world of hybrid apps

00:32:52 ◼   ► where you have parts of it that are the companion apps,

00:32:55 ◼   ► the glances, the sorts of things we have now,

00:32:57 ◼   ► but there are other parts that are natively existing

00:33:00 ◼   ► on the watch itself so that you can do things

00:33:02 ◼   ► like load faster and pull in maybe custom UI beds

00:33:06 ◼   ► or load in other sorts of code and execute natively

00:33:09 ◼   ► on the watch while still maybe the data that it's using

00:33:14 ◼   ► is still being pulled from the phone app itself?

00:33:17 ◼   ► - That's a good question.

00:33:17 ◼   ► I mean, yeah, we don't know yet.

00:33:19 ◼   ► I mean, there's part of your question which is like,

00:33:22 ◼   ► can part of your watch presence be WatchKit

00:33:27 ◼   ► and can part of it be native?

00:33:29 ◼   ► And I'm guessing the answer to that is no,

00:33:31 ◼   ► but just for simplicity's sake in the loaders and stuff,

00:33:35 ◼   ► but I don't know that.

00:33:36 ◼   ► I'm also curious though, you know, you mentioned glances.

00:33:38 ◼   ► Like, right now glances are very limited

00:33:41 ◼   ► in third party apps because we can't have

00:33:42 ◼   ► any controls on them.

00:33:43 ◼   ► The entire glance just acts as one giant button

00:33:45 ◼   ► to launch the app.

00:33:46 ◼   ► I would greatly benefit from a glance

00:33:50 ◼   ► that could have buttons on it.

00:33:52 ◼   ► Right now my glance is moderately useful,

00:33:56 ◼   ► but it would be a lot more useful

00:33:58 ◼   ► if I could have like seek and pause buttons on it

00:34:00 ◼   ► the way that the built in Now Playing glance does.

00:34:02 ◼   ► That would be extremely helpful to me.

00:34:04 ◼   ► and right now, I can't do that.

00:34:06 ◼   ► So that's worth noting.

00:34:08 ◼   ► I'm also curious about whether we'll have access

00:34:11 ◼   ► to third-party complications.

00:34:14 ◼   ► So complications on the watch faces.

00:34:16 ◼   ► That would be extremely interesting

00:34:20 ◼   ► and very, very compelling to me.

00:34:22 ◼   ► I might even try making different kinds of apps

00:34:26 ◼   ► that aren't overcast, 'cause there's not really much reason

00:34:28 ◼   ► to have overcast in a complication

00:34:30 ◼   ► except maybe to have play controls,

00:34:32 ◼   ► but that seems, I don't think that would be possible or good.

00:34:35 ◼   ► - No, and I think on the 38, I mean on the 42,

00:34:38 ◼   ► it might look okay, but on the 38 millimeter screen

00:34:40 ◼   ► especially, it's gonna be like, no, don't even bother.

00:34:43 ◼   ► - Exactly, so I'm not expecting that,

00:34:45 ◼   ► but if we can have third-party complications

00:34:48 ◼   ► for other kinds of apps, like I would love Weatherline,

00:34:52 ◼   ► my favorite weather app, I would love Weatherline

00:34:53 ◼   ► to be able to have, to be a complication

00:34:55 ◼   ► and have like a little line like on the bottom,

00:34:57 ◼   ► that bottom skinny slot on the, what is it,

00:35:00 ◼   ► utility face, yeah, the utility face.

00:35:02 ◼   ► I would also, and so if we have like third party

00:35:06 ◼   ► complications for other kinds of apps that aren't overcast,

00:35:08 ◼   ► and then you have buttons and glances

00:35:11 ◼   ► for things like overcast, I think that goes a very long way.

00:35:14 ◼   ► And I really, really hope we get something like that.

00:35:18 ◼   ► And we might not get it in version one.

00:35:19 ◼   ► I don't necessarily expect to, but we'll see.

00:35:22 ◼   ► I really hope we do, and I think that could be huge.

00:35:24 ◼   ► That being said, I'm still overall very excited about

00:35:29 ◼   ► what the native SDK will get us.

00:35:31 ◼   ► I don't know yet if Overcast will be able to have

00:35:34 ◼   ► a native app that is possible and allowed and doesn't suck

00:35:38 ◼   ► in version one of the SDK,

00:35:39 ◼   ► but I'm really glad that there's a chance.

00:35:42 ◼   ► - You know, I was thinking that what if you,

00:35:44 ◼   ► what if I just lived in Overcast,

00:35:47 ◼   ► which actually is kind of true,

00:35:48 ◼   ► but Overcast is my jam that's really the only thing

00:35:51 ◼   ► I listen to on my computer, on my phone,

00:35:53 ◼   ► and potentially on my watch.

00:35:55 ◼   ► I could see a complication for just remaining time

00:35:57 ◼   ► the podcast that's currently playing.

00:36:00 ◼   ► Ooh, that's actually, that's a good idea.

00:36:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that would be useful if Overcast is the sort of thing that basically, if I'm

00:36:06 ◼   ► doing anything entertainment-related, I'm using Overcast.

00:36:09 ◼   ► So even something simple like that could be helpful.

00:36:13 ◼   ► And I am one of many that wrote posts about how I think third-party complications would

00:36:18 ◼   ► be a really awesome idea.

00:36:21 ◼   ► And I don't even know where it would go, but just the thought of being able to support

00:36:27 ◼   ► that sort of thing. Sounds really awesome to me. I mean, I had some examples on this

00:36:31 ◼   ► post which we'll put in the show notes. You know, you could have something very simple

00:36:35 ◼   ► from E-Trade showing you how well or poorly your portfolio is doing, or maybe just what

00:36:41 ◼   ► your next itinerary item is from TripIt, or I don't know, what if you had a Tesla, Marco,

00:36:47 ◼   ► and wanted to know your battery status, or whatever the case may be, or what's the next

00:36:51 ◼   ► delivery arriving at your house, which for most of us is an Apple Watch in three months.

00:36:56 ◼   ► You know, all sorts of different things.

00:36:58 ◼   ► Sports scores.

00:36:59 ◼   ► Any one of these things could be a reasonably good complication.

00:37:02 ◼   ► And yeah, Marco, I don't know if there's any terribly awesome ideas for Overcast, but

00:37:07 ◼   ► I could see all sorts of really nifty things you could do with complications.

00:37:10 ◼   ► And I'm skeptical that'll be part of the API for now, but I do think that it would

00:37:16 ◼   ► be really awesome if they existed.

00:37:18 ◼   ► Christina, do you have any thoughts on that?

00:37:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I think I would love to see more complications.

00:37:23 ◼   ► I think that would be great, especially if Apple can kind of enforce their own UI guidelines.

00:37:27 ◼   ► I think that would be tremendous.

00:37:28 ◼   ► And really, to me, I think that would be much better than allowing people to submit their

00:37:32 ◼   ► own app bases because that's just going to become a sh*t show the way that third-party

00:37:38 ◼   ► keyboards have kind of become a UI sh*t show.

00:37:41 ◼   ► So I feel like keep it clean, but having complications would be really great.

00:37:45 ◼   ► But just on the fact that there is going to be this preview of an SDK, I'm just excited

00:37:50 ◼   ► about that, like you Marco, mostly because as an end user, I feel like this is the first

00:37:54 ◼   ► time we'll really get a chance to see what people can do with this device.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Because we've been kind of hampered a little bit by it just being kind of the companion

00:38:04 ◼   ► app aspect, the fact that you're having to go through the phone.

00:38:07 ◼   ► And I'm really looking forward to, even if it's not a ton of power, even if it's

00:38:11 ◼   ► not everything, the fact that developers will be able to build things and execute directly

00:38:16 ◼   ► on the watch.

00:38:17 ◼   ► Because I've said this before, I feel like whether the Apple Watch ultimately ends up

00:38:22 ◼   ► being a success or a failure is going to live and die based on what apps are out for it.

00:38:26 ◼   ► I think the app experience is going to be key and we haven't at least, I enjoy some

00:38:31 ◼   ► of the apps on the Apple Watch and I really like my Apple Watch, but I haven't had, other

00:38:35 ◼   ► than maybe mapping stuff, I haven't had that kind of killer app yet.

00:38:39 ◼   ► And I feel like this will be the thing that will help push that sort of thing forward.

00:38:42 ◼   ► Oh definitely.

00:38:44 ◼   ► Right now, it feels like the watch is a really good watch with fun stuff on the face, the

00:38:51 ◼   ► complications that it has.

00:38:53 ◼   ► It's a really good, nice watch.

00:38:55 ◼   ► I don't view it as an app platform for much use just because the apps on it aren't that

00:39:01 ◼   ► great and I use very few of them as a result.

00:39:04 ◼   ► It's still a great product to me because I like the rest of what it does.

00:39:07 ◼   ► I love just the timekeeping aspect.

00:39:09 ◼   ► I love the faces.

00:39:10 ◼   ► I love the complications.

00:39:11 ◼   ► I love having the weather on my watch.

00:39:13 ◼   ► I love the activity tracking.

00:39:14 ◼   ► having all these easy access to timers and stuff.

00:39:18 ◼   ► I love the features it already has

00:39:19 ◼   ► with no apps installed at all.

00:39:22 ◼   ► But it sure would be nice to see,

00:39:24 ◼   ► does the idea of getting faster, better,

00:39:27 ◼   ► more capable apps, does that affect things?

00:39:31 ◼   ► And it might not.

00:39:33 ◼   ► It might end up that dealing with a watch on your wrist

00:39:38 ◼   ► is so clunky and limited.

00:39:42 ◼   ► it might end up that most people just prefer

00:39:44 ◼   ► to pull their phone out of their pocket

00:39:46 ◼   ► to do any kind of complex app interaction.

00:39:49 ◼   ► But we don't know that yet,

00:39:50 ◼   ► 'cause right now, apps on the watch

00:39:51 ◼   ► really haven't had a fair chance,

00:39:53 ◼   ► because WatchKit is so limited and slow.

00:39:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree.

00:39:56 ◼   ► The only thing that I kind of dread

00:39:58 ◼   ► about the pending native apps on the watch is,

00:40:02 ◼   ► you know that we're just gonna get swarmed

00:40:04 ◼   ► with a bunch of crappy games

00:40:05 ◼   ► that nobody really wants to play,

00:40:07 ◼   ► and I'm not looking forward to that.

00:40:09 ◼   ► But everything else sounds really exciting,

00:40:12 ◼   ► I'm really curious to see how it goes.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Now, Jeff Williams did say, if I'm not mistaken,

00:40:17 ◼   ► explicitly that it's a preview that's coming,

00:40:21 ◼   ► what is it, week after next?

00:40:23 ◼   ► When do you think, guys, and I'll start with Christina,

00:40:25 ◼   ► if you were to just have a guess,

00:40:27 ◼   ► when do you think the first native watch apps

00:40:30 ◼   ► from third parties will be available in the store?

00:40:33 ◼   ► - I would say fall.

00:40:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think I agree.

00:40:36 ◼   ► I mean, it would follow the iOS beta timeline

00:40:40 ◼   ► if they did that.

00:40:40 ◼   ► - Exactly, and whenever the final Xcode is out,

00:40:44 ◼   ► yeah, I would think that it's probably gonna be

00:40:46 ◼   ► part of iOS 9 and probably whatever the next

00:40:48 ◼   ► watchOS update is, 1.5 or whatever they call it,

00:40:52 ◼   ► will add support for native apps,

00:40:54 ◼   ► but I figure they'll preview it next week

00:40:56 ◼   ► or a week after next, and then they will

00:40:58 ◼   ► have it rolled out in October-ish.

00:41:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

00:41:04 ◼   ► Maybe that was said, the chat room was saying

00:41:05 ◼   ► maybe they said that, so I missed it if so,

00:41:07 ◼   ► but I think that makes the most sense to me for sure.

00:41:10 ◼   ► Any other thoughts on native watch apps before we move on?

00:41:15 ◼   ► - I do worry about battery life long term.

00:41:18 ◼   ► Like right now the watch battery life is great.

00:41:21 ◼   ► Like well Christina what do you think?

00:41:23 ◼   ► 38 is significantly worse.

00:41:25 ◼   ► - Yeah I mean it's been good for me

00:41:27 ◼   ► provided I don't have too many apps installed.

00:41:30 ◼   ► And that was sort of the thing that I had to get used to.

00:41:32 ◼   ► It was like just install the ones I like and that I use.

00:41:35 ◼   ► So I have Overcast, I have Twittorific, and I have Uber,

00:41:37 ◼   ► and there are a couple of others that I have.

00:41:39 ◼   ► have a ton of glances installed, just the ones that I really use, you know, 1Password

00:41:43 ◼   ► and a couple of other things. But no, I've actually been really impressed with battery

00:41:48 ◼   ► life. But this is, I feel like it could go both ways. Like on the one hand, it could

00:41:53 ◼   ► immediately tax the battery more. On the other hand, it's possible that it might be more

00:41:57 ◼   ► efficient potentially. I don't know if it doesn't have to pull and send stuff back and

00:42:02 ◼   ► forth over Bluetooth all the time. I don't know.

00:42:04 ◼   ► That's a good point. I hadn't thought about that. But yeah, I guess it depends a lot on

00:42:08 ◼   ► whether apps will be able to do things like background refresh, which I'm guessing the

00:42:12 ◼   ► answer is no, but that will have a lot to do with it, I'm sure.

00:42:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm very curious to see what the limits are on that, because background processing

00:42:20 ◼   ► on the iPhone, if you're doing kind of traditional stuff, that's still limited to ten minutes,

00:42:24 ◼   ► is that correct?

00:42:26 ◼   ► On the iPhone, it's even shorter than that now. They change it, they threaten to change

00:42:31 ◼   ► it at, I think in iOS 7, they threaten to make it so that you could get little time

00:42:37 ◼   ► slices but they wouldn't be contiguous. That caused so many bugs during the betas of, I

00:42:41 ◼   ► think it was either seven or eight, it caused so many bugs and was such a pain that they

00:42:45 ◼   ► gave you back your contiguous block but now instead of ten minutes, I think it's like

00:42:48 ◼   ► four minutes or two, that time keeps going down. And so I'm guessing like, on the watch,

00:42:56 ◼   ► you're not going to be running for ten minutes in the background. There's just no chance.

00:42:59 ◼   ► Well, right, that's what I was striving at is I wonder if the limit is 30 seconds or

00:43:04 ◼   ► maybe even 15 seconds, whatever it may be. I'm very curious to see what they do to kind

00:43:10 ◼   ► of handcuff developers and prevent them from doing stupid stuff. Really quickly before

00:43:15 ◼   ► we talk about another thing that's awesome, I wanted to ask you guys, I am not really

00:43:19 ◼   ► into glances like I think a lot of other people are. And, Christina, you made mention of this

00:43:23 ◼   ► a second ago. I'm looking at my watch right now and I have the, I think it's a settings

00:43:27 ◼   ► glance where you can do like airplane mode and all that. I have the battery glance, which

00:43:32 ◼   ► I'm trying to convince myself to remove because I've not yet once hit power reserve,

00:43:37 ◼   ► but I don't know, it still kind of weirds me out that I don't know of any other way to easily look at the battery

00:43:42 ◼   ► without adding a complication.

00:43:44 ◼   ► Like I wish it was in settings or something, so if I really, really wanted to know I could figure it out

00:43:49 ◼   ► without having to add the glance, but anyway.

00:43:51 ◼   ► I have TripIt, which I am only keeping on there for the next few weeks because I'm doing a bit of traveling like WWDC.

00:43:58 ◼   ► I have Dark Sky, I have the heart rate in case I want to try to convince it that I'm exercising even when I'm not,

00:44:04 ◼   ► and I have the WDC--

00:44:07 ◼   ► What does that mean?

00:44:08 ◼   ► Well, like, if I feel like I've run up and down stairs 15 times and my heart is pumping,

00:44:12 ◼   ► then I can flip over to the heart rate glance and it'll measure my heart rate,

00:44:15 ◼   ► or I can tell it to measure my heart rate, maybe I'll get a minute of credit.

00:44:18 ◼   ► And then my final glance, which was added earlier today, was the WWDC app,

00:44:22 ◼   ► but that's it, that's all I have. So let me start again with Christina.

00:44:26 ◼   ► What do you have on there?

00:44:27 ◼   ► You kind of quickly ran them off,

00:44:29 ◼   ► but it blew right by me before I had a chance

00:44:31 ◼   ► to add it up in my head.

00:44:33 ◼   ► What do you have on there,

00:44:34 ◼   ► and are you looking to add or remove any?

00:44:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I try to keep it as minimal as possible.

00:44:40 ◼   ► I got rid of stocks, I got rid of a bunch of them

00:44:42 ◼   ► that I just kind of wasn't really using.

00:44:43 ◼   ► So I have one for the subway from a CityMapper.

00:44:48 ◼   ► I have CityMapper on,

00:44:49 ◼   ► and that's actually a pretty good watch app, I have to say.

00:44:51 ◼   ► They've done a really nice job with it.

00:44:53 ◼   ► So I have CityMapper, the battery, and the heart rate.

00:44:56 ◼   ► I have Overcast.

00:44:59 ◼   ► I have TripIt, but again, that's just mostly for traveling stuff.

00:45:02 ◼   ► I don't have it up all the time.

00:45:04 ◼   ► Oh, I have 1Password.

00:45:05 ◼   ► Oh, I have Authy.

00:45:06 ◼   ► I have Authy, sorry.

00:45:07 ◼   ► Authy, my two-factor authentication thing.

00:45:09 ◼   ► I know 1Password will do that, but Authy is just easier to just have the things that I

00:45:13 ◼   ► have the two-factor for.

00:45:14 ◼   ► Tim Cynova Yeah, I just try to keep mine simple.

00:45:17 ◼   ► I mean, I have the built-in settings now playing,

00:45:21 ◼   ► activity, the battery, which I turned off,

00:45:25 ◼   ► but it somehow got turned back on,

00:45:26 ◼   ► I gotta look into that, and overcast, and that's it.

00:45:29 ◼   ► So the only third-party one I have is overcast.

00:45:31 ◼   ► - Interesting.

00:45:32 ◼   ► - Because to me, the glances are like

00:45:35 ◼   ► OS X Mac dashboard widgets.

00:45:37 ◼   ► - Totally.

00:45:38 ◼   ► - You know, they sit around there not updating themselves

00:45:42 ◼   ► until you go to them, and then they're showing old data,

00:45:45 ◼   ► and then you have to wait for it to spin

00:45:46 ◼   ► and update itself, it's kind of a crappy experience

00:45:49 ◼   ► if you actually want to just glance at something

00:45:52 ◼   ► because it's not loaded yet.

00:45:53 ◼   ► So you have to go, see the old stuff, and wait.

00:45:56 ◼   ► And that's not great.

00:45:58 ◼   ► So I don't really care to have more of those than necessary.

00:46:03 ◼   ► But when you're swiping through,

00:46:06 ◼   ► it's just like a side-by-side card swiping interaction,

00:46:09 ◼   ► and so you can't have a very long list there

00:46:11 ◼   ► without it being a little bit unwieldy to navigate through.

00:46:13 ◼   ► - Right. - Yeah, I agree.

00:46:14 ◼   ► I feel like it was Federico Vittucci, although I may have that wrong, that had said that

00:46:19 ◼   ► he had a bunch of glances, like 10 or 15 glances or something like that.

00:46:23 ◼   ► And whoever it was, maybe it wasn't Federico, I thought to myself, "Really?"

00:46:27 ◼   ► Because I have a fair number of third-party apps on my watch, although I don't use very

00:46:32 ◼   ► many, Overcast being one that I use a lot as an example.

00:46:36 ◼   ► But I personally don't care for most glances.

00:46:40 ◼   ► Not to be corny, but the only time I really want to have a glance is if it's something that I want to just glance

00:46:46 ◼   ► at like TripIt, like what's coming next at WWDC,

00:46:50 ◼   ► like my battery life if I can ever, you know, convince myself to remove it, but

00:46:55 ◼   ► But you know things like that where I'm just gonna look for a second and then I'm gonna move on and then I'm gonna use

00:47:00 ◼   ► an app for something like Overcast where I'm gonna be going in and out of it or you know

00:47:04 ◼   ► maybe I want it up for a while because I'm gonna be fiddling with it a lot and

00:47:07 ◼   ► and glances just don't really cut it for me.

00:47:09 ◼   ► And so I was just curious, and it sounds like

00:47:10 ◼   ► we're all kind of of the same mind in this one.

00:47:12 ◼   ► - Well, and also, for that kind of like quick glancing

00:47:15 ◼   ► and quick launching,

00:47:17 ◼   ► complications are better in every way for those things.

00:47:20 ◼   ► You know, so like, I love having the complications

00:47:24 ◼   ► on the face that let me remove a glance,

00:47:27 ◼   ► and that let me not ever have to go to the home screen,

00:47:30 ◼   ► which I hate, to find the app and do something there.

00:47:34 ◼   ► Like, I love having the complications there.

00:47:36 ◼   ► So, I don't know, I'm curious also to just see

00:47:39 ◼   ► as the watch software gets updated by Apple,

00:47:43 ◼   ► do we get more watch faces?

00:47:45 ◼   ► How often do we get a new watch face?

00:47:48 ◼   ► Do we get new complications from Apple being added?

00:47:51 ◼   ► Or do some of the existing watch faces

00:47:53 ◼   ► that don't have complications, which is a lot of them,

00:47:55 ◼   ► do those gain complications?

00:47:57 ◼   ► - Do they get updated, yeah.

00:47:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's so many questions.

00:48:00 ◼   ► - Do we get a Burberry watch face?

00:48:02 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:48:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm just as excited.

00:48:06 ◼   ► because the watch for me is like, you know,

00:48:08 ◼   ► half the value or more is the built-in stuff.

00:48:11 ◼   ► I'm also just excited to see what software updates

00:48:13 ◼   ► bring to the watch from Apple.

00:48:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm curious to see how it goes,

00:48:17 ◼   ► but we should talk about something else that's awesome.

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00:52:56 ◼   ► - All right, so other big news in the last week.

00:52:59 ◼   ► On, what was it, Monday, Apple announced

00:53:02 ◼   ► that Johnny Ive is promo-retired?

00:53:06 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Retire-moded.

00:53:09 ◼   ► What do we think about that?

00:53:10 ◼   ► So the quick recap is they've said that Johnny Ive has been promoted to Chief Design Officer,

00:53:19 ◼   ► is that correct?

00:53:20 ◼   ► Yes.

00:53:21 ◼   ► Yeah, a newly created position.

00:53:22 ◼   ► Newly created position.

00:53:23 ◼   ► So he's now on the C-suite and day-to-day managerial duties have been passed off to

00:53:28 ◼   ► two lieutenants.

00:53:30 ◼   ► Right.

00:53:31 ◼   ► And this was all reported by the actor/humongous geek/all-around awesome person Stephen Fry.

00:53:37 ◼   ► slash Johnny Ives BFF who was mentioned I think thrice in the amazing New Yorker profile.

00:53:43 ◼   ► Maybe he was only mentioned twice. I think that the Chris Martin from Coldplay was mentioned

00:53:47 ◼   ► three times. Either way, that was one of the things that I learned reading through that

00:53:51 ◼   ► amazing profile was how many famous friends Johnny Ive has.

00:53:56 ◼   ► Dr. Jon O'Brien Yeah, exactly. So in The Telegraph, which

00:53:59 ◼   ► is a British news publication, Stephen Fry wrote this article about how Johnny has been

00:54:06 ◼   ► promoted to, chief design officer like you said, Christina, his couple of lieutenants are going to

00:54:11 ◼   ► manage the day-to-day stuff, and among other things, at some point or another, they mentioned

00:54:15 ◼   ► that this will allow him more time to travel. So there's a few conflicting thoughts on this,

00:54:23 ◼   ► and Rene Ritchie actually had a tweet, which I don't have in front of me, but really, really,

00:54:28 ◼   ► really well summarized what the different ideas are. I think he said that the analysts were of

00:54:35 ◼   ► the opinion that this was all to dodge having to reveal how much Johnny makes.

00:54:39 ◼   ► And what were the other two things he said to either of you guys remember?

00:54:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I think this was René, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it was like, you know,

00:54:47 ◼   ► analyst, this is too high but he makes, optimist, this is like, you know,

00:54:51 ◼   ► great because it's a promotion or whatever, and then pessimist, he's quitting.

00:54:55 ◼   ► Something like that. Yeah, yeah, something along those lines. We'll find the

00:54:59 ◼   ► tweet and put it in the show notes after the fact. But, you know, those are the three

00:55:03 ◼   ► kind of extreme summaries, extremely brief summaries, but I don't know, Marco, how did

00:55:09 ◼   ► you feel about this? What was your first reaction when you read this news?

00:55:12 ◼   ► Um, a little, first of all, a little intrigued about how they announced this in this article.

00:55:20 ◼   ► Yes, and how they buried it. Can we talk about how they buried this? They did this like early

00:55:26 ◼   ► afternoon on a Monday, on a holiday, so the market is closed, but also, like, all the

00:55:31 ◼   ► the beat reporters are like half drunk because nobody's working.

00:55:36 ◼   ► Do we know about this from experience, Christina?

00:55:38 ◼   ► Yes. I mean, I was one of those people who was like, "I'm not writing this. Whoever's

00:55:41 ◼   ► like got like, you know, the Memorial Day duty, they can hit this post." I was like,

00:55:46 ◼   ► "I'm not stopping my, you know, for this." I was like, "If Apple's going to bury this

00:55:51 ◼   ► like this, I'm certainly not going to stop my festivities to write this news post. Let

00:55:55 ◼   ► someone else do it."

00:55:57 ◼   ► So yeah, it was weird. I think it was interestingly done. Probably well done if I think it was

00:56:05 ◼   ► well done, like as well as it could have been done, you know, better than a press release,

00:56:08 ◼   ► I guess. But you look at this, you read between the lines, when he had that big profile, when

00:56:15 ◼   ► was it, last fall in the New Yorker?

00:56:17 ◼   ► Yeah, but it was like February?

00:56:19 ◼   ► Something like that. That's fall. So, yeah, it's a fine fall here in New York in February.

00:56:26 ◼   ► So whenever that was, that big profile with him, talking about the watch, you really got

00:56:31 ◼   ► the impression that he was severely burning out and severely overworked because he does

00:56:37 ◼   ► way too much. And it was kind of painful to read at times because you could see the writing

00:56:43 ◼   ► on the wall. You could see like, "This guy can't keep doing this. This is unsustainable."

00:56:47 ◼   ► No. No, I mean, just the fact that he's literally overseeing everything that design touches

00:56:53 ◼   ► and having to be involved in all these meetings. I mean, the fact that he's involved just

00:56:56 ◼   ► in the new campus. I mean literally everything, you're right, I mean UI, industrial design,

00:57:02 ◼   ► you know hardware, software, it's too much for any person. No matter how young you are,

00:57:07 ◼   ► no matter how much you want to do things, there's only so much you can do and then also

00:57:12 ◼   ► still he has twin sons and a wife and like you know you got to be a person too, especially

00:57:17 ◼   ► if you've got as much money as Johnny Ive has.

00:57:20 ◼   ► This is probably the only way that Apple could keep him working at all because it was either

00:57:24 ◼   ► this or burnout and quitting.

00:57:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, which would be devastating to the company.

00:57:29 ◼   ► I mean, you know, whether he's built a big enough team

00:57:33 ◼   ► that people could survive without him or not,

00:57:35 ◼   ► just the fact that such a huge figurehead left

00:57:37 ◼   ► and could potentially go someplace else

00:57:38 ◼   ► would be absolutely devastating.

00:57:40 ◼   ► - Exactly, and that's like, you know,

00:57:41 ◼   ► I'm sure this is probably a lot like the Steve situation,

00:57:46 ◼   ► where I'm sure he has built up a great team,

00:57:48 ◼   ► I'm sure there are people that could take over

00:57:50 ◼   ► and that are taking over.

00:57:53 ◼   ► So I'm not worried about Apple's future

00:57:56 ◼   ► with either a reduced Johnny Live capacity

00:57:58 ◼   ► or if he actually does finally leave at some point.

00:58:01 ◼   ► I'm not worried about that future of Apple.

00:58:04 ◼   ► I think it will be, you know,

00:58:07 ◼   ► like when Steve Jobs left and then passed away,

00:58:10 ◼   ► I think it will be different without Johnny,

00:58:14 ◼   ► but I think they'll get along fine.

00:58:16 ◼   ► - Yeah. - You know,

00:58:17 ◼   ► it won't be the same, there'll be new people,

00:58:19 ◼   ► there might be some shakeups here and there,

00:58:20 ◼   ► but it'll be, they'll be okay.

00:58:23 ◼   ► You know, I hope we get him as long as we can

00:58:27 ◼   ► because he seems really good at his job.

00:58:29 ◼   ► But when he has to leave the company at some point,

00:58:33 ◼   ► I'm not worried for the company's future.

00:58:36 ◼   ► - No, I'm not either, but I feel like as long as they can,

00:58:38 ◼   ► you know, as much time as they can hold out as possible,

00:58:41 ◼   ► I think is better for everyone,

00:58:42 ◼   ► and for no other reason than for perception.

00:58:46 ◼   ► Because like you said, I mean,

00:58:47 ◼   ► I think the company will be fine, it'll be different,

00:58:49 ◼   ► it'll be fine. I think that they've gone through enough transitions now where they

00:58:53 ◼   ► know how not to do what happened in '85 or '86. They know how to manage things.

00:59:01 ◼   ► But I also think, to a certain degree, I almost wonder how much we should read in directly

00:59:07 ◼   ► to what they're saying he's going to be doing. Handing off day-to-day managerial duties,

00:59:10 ◼   ► I think that's actually probably a good thing for someone in his position. Let him

00:59:14 ◼   ► have the kind of the final say and be the creative infusion of the company. Let him

00:59:20 ◼   ► kind of be the muse. But let other people deal with the day-to-day bullcrap because

00:59:26 ◼   ► honestly, at his position, I don't know how much of that stuff he should be really

00:59:31 ◼   ► responsible for, how much of a micromanager he really needs to be, and how much it should

00:59:36 ◼   ► just kind of come from his core vision of saying, "This is where we want to go. These

00:59:39 ◼   ► these are our goals, these are the lines, these are our values. And if there are certain

00:59:44 ◼   ► projects he wants to be really involved in, then help design that. But trust the people

00:59:49 ◼   ► that he's hired and that he's mentored to do their jobs.

00:59:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I think you're right. This does overall feel like he's going from a position of having

01:00:01 ◼   ► a lot of work and way too much of it to a position of having less direct involvement.

01:00:08 ◼   ► For somebody like Johnny Ivey, if anybody has ever worked

01:00:11 ◼   ► with an artist before, a creative artist,

01:00:15 ◼   ► it is very hard for creative artists

01:00:18 ◼   ► to be managing people all day

01:00:21 ◼   ► and to be working in the same place

01:00:24 ◼   ► for a very, very long time.

01:00:26 ◼   ► That's a very hard thing for most creative people

01:00:28 ◼   ► that I've ever known to do.

01:00:30 ◼   ► And so if he's going to keep working there,

01:00:34 ◼   ► I think he needs both less of the kind of work

01:00:38 ◼   ► he doesn't care that much about, like managing things,

01:00:41 ◼   ► and also, does he really need to be that involved

01:00:46 ◼   ► in making the next 15-inch MacBook Pro?

01:00:48 ◼   ► - Right. (laughs)

01:00:50 ◼   ► - Making the next iMac, does he care that much?

01:00:53 ◼   ► Probably not.

01:00:54 ◼   ► Do you really need Johnny Ives' genius

01:00:57 ◼   ► to say make the next airport extreme thinner?

01:01:01 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:01:04 ◼   ► there's a lot of things that Apple does that are probably not interesting to him anymore.

01:01:08 ◼   ► And that's fine. He's been there a very long time making a bunch of silver-thin things.

01:01:13 ◼   ► And he can do other things.

01:01:15 ◼   ► He can do other things. Well, it's also, I think, one of those things where he can do

01:01:18 ◼   ► maybe the big iterations. So maybe he's really involved with the design of the MacBook, or

01:01:23 ◼   ► the MacBook One as you call it. Or maybe what they did with the thin, I guess what is it,

01:01:29 ◼   ► the 2013 iMac, where they made it thin and gave it the bump, the hump in the back.

01:01:34 ◼   ► Maybe he's involved in those sorts of decisions, but he's not really, the minor refreshes

01:01:38 ◼   ► he's not as involved in.

01:01:39 ◼   ► So maybe he's setting the tone, but not having to be involved in each particular

01:01:44 ◼   ► thing.

01:01:45 ◼   ► I think you're right.

01:01:46 ◼   ► He's designed a lot of thin metal things or plastic colored things for Apple over

01:01:51 ◼   ► the years.

01:01:52 ◼   ► Also, if they really are going to get into cars, if they're going to get into auto,

01:01:56 ◼   ► a completely different, that's going to take, needs some overseeing in a completely

01:02:01 ◼   ► different capacity. So I don't know.

01:02:04 ◼   ► You know, he also might need the distance. Like, he might need to be based in the UK

01:02:11 ◼   ► primarily and then only occasionally traveling to California just to prevent him from involving

01:02:16 ◼   ► himself in too many things. Like, this very much might be like a saving himself from himself

01:02:20 ◼   ► kind of thing where it's like, right now, if you read these profiles of him, he is so

01:02:25 ◼   ► intimately involved in every little detail of everything.

01:02:28 ◼   ► - No, I mean, and that's always the challenge, right?

01:02:31 ◼   ► When you get promoted to something is how much,

01:02:34 ◼   ► whether you succeed or fail, and I've certainly failed

01:02:36 ◼   ► in this respect in my past, I've tried to be better about

01:02:38 ◼   ► in the future, but giving things up and trusting others

01:02:41 ◼   ► to do their job, it's really hard sometimes not to

01:02:45 ◼   ► be able to let go, and I think that the only way

01:02:48 ◼   ► he can really let go is if he's not there.

01:02:50 ◼   ► So being in England, being with his family,

01:02:53 ◼   ► I think probably works better for him.

01:02:55 ◼   ► Although I still imagine that these guys are for years going to be getting phone calls

01:02:59 ◼   ► in the middle of the night from him about some idea about a corner or how some sort

01:03:04 ◼   ► of wedge, some sort of joint is bothering him.

01:03:09 ◼   ► I mean I'm sure that's not going to go away, but yeah I think you're right.

01:03:12 ◼   ► I think that it does make sense, the travel aspect that yeah, probably does need to have

01:03:17 ◼   ► a little bit of distance because if he's a chauffeured car ride away from the office,

01:03:24 ◼   ► makes it really easy to go into the office all the time.

01:03:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree.

01:03:28 ◼   ► - Like he needs that distance to avoid more burnout

01:03:32 ◼   ► and to force him to delegate things like

01:03:36 ◼   ► what is the internal layout of the cable

01:03:38 ◼   ► inside the new Mac with the ghost of the audio port.

01:03:40 ◼   ► Like stuff like that, like he,

01:03:41 ◼   ► I'm sure he's involved in all of that stuff,

01:03:44 ◼   ► external and internal stuff,

01:03:45 ◼   ► plus the kind of tables in the retail stores

01:03:48 ◼   ► and what kind of, you know,

01:03:49 ◼   ► what the corner shape is on the icons.

01:03:50 ◼   ► Like he's, and not to mention,

01:03:52 ◼   ► that he also has recently had the entire software UI

01:03:56 ◼   ► placed on him, which he probably, I mean,

01:04:00 ◼   ► so when Forstall was kicked out,

01:04:03 ◼   ► all of the UI design fell on Johnny as well.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Was it Alan Dye who ended up doing most of that,

01:04:09 ◼   ► or was it the other guy?

01:04:10 ◼   ► No, it wasn't Howarth, it was Alan Dye, right?

01:04:12 ◼   ► Yeah, so a lot of that fell on him,

01:04:15 ◼   ► but that was still under Johnny,

01:04:17 ◼   ► and Johnny was still the one who had to make the final call

01:04:20 ◼   ► on a lot of these things, I'm sure.

01:04:22 ◼   ► That's not a small job.

01:04:23 ◼   ► That's like, this is not only all the little details

01:04:26 ◼   ► of all the hardware and chairs and everything in Apple,

01:04:30 ◼   ► but also the entire UI of all of their software.

01:04:34 ◼   ► Like that's insane.

01:04:37 ◼   ► Honestly, that should never have been placed

01:04:40 ◼   ► in the same person.

01:04:41 ◼   ► And it wasn't before Forstall's Ouster, for good reason.

01:04:45 ◼   ► So I don't know if the idea of putting all this on Johnny

01:04:50 ◼   ► was intended to be temporary until they could build

01:04:52 ◼   ► someone else up into the new forestall,

01:04:55 ◼   ► or whether, actually I don't know if forestall

01:04:58 ◼   ► was in charge of the UI, I should probably

01:04:59 ◼   ► stop assuming that, I think he was in charge of iOS.

01:05:02 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:05:03 ◼   ► - Regardless, whether Johnny was intended to keep

01:05:07 ◼   ► that long term or not, we don't know,

01:05:09 ◼   ► but that is so clearly so different from the hardware

01:05:13 ◼   ► that it is good that the software design

01:05:17 ◼   ► and hardware design teams are talking to each other

01:05:20 ◼   ► and are involved and are generally near each other.

01:05:23 ◼   ► - They don't need to be the same guy.

01:05:25 ◼   ► - Exactly, exactly.

01:05:26 ◼   ► - I think they need to have a relationship and talk,

01:05:28 ◼   ► but I would actually argue it's probably better

01:05:30 ◼   ► if it's not the same person,

01:05:31 ◼   ► because I think they're very different disciplines.

01:05:33 ◼   ► - Exactly, and I think a lot of the UI missteps

01:05:37 ◼   ► we've seen since iOS 7 are because this UI

01:05:41 ◼   ► needs to be treated differently than hardware,

01:05:43 ◼   ► and in some cases it wasn't.

01:05:45 ◼   ► Basically, I think this change is all for the better.

01:05:48 ◼   ► We'll see in time, but I think overall,

01:05:51 ◼   ► I'm kind of happy, kind of relieved

01:05:55 ◼   ► to see that there are changes in me,

01:05:56 ◼   ► because really, these profiles of Johnny

01:05:58 ◼   ► just made it seem like he was just like

01:06:00 ◼   ► seconds away from burning out and leaving.

01:06:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree.

01:06:03 ◼   ► This makes me wonder a couple of things.

01:06:06 ◼   ► First, does this change how Apple perceives remote work?

01:06:11 ◼   ► I suspect not, and I know that they have establishments.

01:06:15 ◼   ► Didn't they, they had or have a large group in Vancouver,

01:06:18 ◼   ► I believe they had to have a large group in,

01:06:21 ◼   ► was it Pittsburgh, is that right, Marco?

01:06:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think the iWork team was there for a while.

01:06:24 ◼   ► There's also, there's groups in,

01:06:26 ◼   ► I think they're forming a group in Seattle now,

01:06:28 ◼   ► there's a big group in Austin doing a bunch of store stuff.

01:06:30 ◼   ► Like there's, they really have a lot of satellite groups,

01:06:34 ◼   ► but usually it's like, you know, it's not like

01:06:37 ◼   ► one team will be split across the country,

01:06:39 ◼   ► like they'll like silo off certain things

01:06:41 ◼   ► that can be easily siloed off like iWork

01:06:44 ◼   ► and have them be in a different spot, stuff like that,

01:06:46 ◼   ► But it's not like the main core of OS X is being worked on by people all over the place,

01:06:52 ◼   ► or anything like that.

01:06:53 ◼   ► It's things that can be easily siloed are.

01:06:56 ◼   ► Right.

01:06:57 ◼   ► And this is me reaching a bit, but I see all these news reports about how San Francisco

01:07:02 ◼   ► has gone from "unaffordable" to "haha" and that combined with Johnny moving eight hours

01:07:09 ◼   ► away granted Johnny is a very unique and special snowflake, and I do not mean that sarcastically,

01:07:14 ◼   ► So he gets a buy where other people wouldn't.

01:07:17 ◼   ► He can go anywhere.

01:07:18 ◼   ► He could be in Antarctica and they would make it work.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Right.

01:07:21 ◼   ► But nevertheless, it makes me wonder, you know, is this going to potentially help open

01:07:26 ◼   ► the door to splitting an individual team across multiple geographic locales?

01:07:31 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:07:32 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:07:33 ◼   ► I know a number, I know a couple of people who work on teams where they are remote and

01:07:36 ◼   ► the rest of their team is in Cupertino.

01:07:38 ◼   ► But most people, I mean, I think that Apple is one of those companies that would prefer

01:07:41 ◼   ► people to work together, especially if you're in the same department.

01:07:44 ◼   ► I would agree with you more if they weren't spending as much as they're spending on their

01:07:47 ◼   ► canoe campus.

01:07:49 ◼   ► It's also important to note that they're in Cupertino, and as expensive as San Francisco

01:07:53 ◼   ► is, you can do okay, you can do well modestly if you're living deeper in the valley and

01:08:00 ◼   ► not in San Francisco proper.

01:08:01 ◼   ► Right, right.

01:08:03 ◼   ► The other thing I wanted to ask, and I don't know if there's really an answer that we're

01:08:09 ◼   ► aware of since Johnny tends to be so private, but do we know what his other interests are?

01:08:13 ◼   ► I didn't know that he was really into timepieces until the Apple Watch press push happened.

01:08:20 ◼   ► And I think it was in that New Yorker piece from February that they said that Johnny's

01:08:25 ◼   ► actually really into cars, specifically British cars.

01:08:27 ◼   ► Yeah, he's really into cars.

01:08:29 ◼   ► But do we know what else he's into?

01:08:30 ◼   ► And the reason I ask this question is, I'm thinking to myself, "Well, what else is there

01:08:34 ◼   ► for him to design?"

01:08:36 ◼   ► At least sitting here now, not as the big dreamer, I can't think of any consumer electronics

01:08:43 ◼   ► except of course the TV, that he might want to design.

01:08:47 ◼   ► So what's left?

01:08:49 ◼   ► I mean, there's the car.

01:08:50 ◼   ► - I mean, he's a big fan of music.

01:08:51 ◼   ► - Is he?

01:08:52 ◼   ► - A lot of his friends are musicians.

01:08:53 ◼   ► You know, Chris Martin, Bono, those guys.

01:08:55 ◼   ► Maybe he designs his own guitar.

01:08:58 ◼   ► - I don't know, I was just curious if there was anything

01:09:00 ◼   ► that we knew that he was, I don't know,

01:09:03 ◼   ► hugely into running just for the sake of discussion,

01:09:05 ◼   ► and now he wants to go moonlight with Nike

01:09:08 ◼   ► and design a running shoe or whatever.

01:09:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, shoot.

01:09:11 ◼   ► I mean, that's actually probably an interesting thing

01:09:13 ◼   ► to look at, is to see some of the projects he's done

01:09:16 ◼   ► with his friend Mark Newsome before some of the things

01:09:19 ◼   ► that they've auctioned off and some of their special

01:09:21 ◼   ► collaborations, that's probably an interesting thing

01:09:23 ◼   ► to look at, I don't know.

01:09:25 ◼   ► I mean, I would assume, I know only what I've read

01:09:27 ◼   ► about him, but it's probably the same with,

01:09:29 ◼   ► at least friends of mine who are artists,

01:09:31 ◼   ► is that a lot of times their interest is what they want

01:09:34 ◼   ► to design or things that are challenging.

01:09:36 ◼   ► You know, so it's not so much their own personal interest

01:09:38 ◼   ► as much as it is what's an interesting design problem

01:09:41 ◼   ► solve. Fair enough. Alright, any other thoughts on Johnny? Do you think that his white world

01:09:47 ◼   ► will turn into a gray, rainy world when he moves to the UK? Please email Marko. Alright,

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01:13:59 ◼   ► All right, so we got through all the essential news for the week and we're sort of running

01:14:04 ◼   ► out of time. So, Christina, what would you like to talk about today?

01:14:08 ◼   ► Well, we could talk about Taylor Swift because she's always a favorite topic of mine, but

01:14:13 ◼   ► I think that the audience might explode. I would love to hear Marco talking about Taylor

01:14:18 ◼   ► Swift. So you do you. Who?

01:14:20 ◼   ► Shut up, Marco. Don't even. Don't even. I'm not even going to entertain that. I'm not

01:14:24 ◼   ► even going to entertain that. Of course you know who she is. Forbes just named her like

01:14:27 ◼   ► the most powerful woman in business and she is.

01:14:31 ◼   ► I know InfoSec Taylor Swift.

01:14:33 ◼   ► I do too. I'm in a group chat on Twitter with InfoSec Taylor Swift.

01:14:37 ◼   ► Ooh.

01:14:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Do we know who that is?

01:14:40 ◼   ► Well, we don't.

01:14:41 ◼   ► Well, we don't but...

01:14:42 ◼   ► Right. I was asking the royal we. Do we know who that is? And I'm assuming not.

01:14:48 ◼   ► We know parts about who the person is but we don't have like an identity. Although,

01:14:51 ◼   ► I think that it's out there. I'm not really sure. I mean, there are lots of rumors. It

01:14:56 ◼   ► It is not Neil Rauhouser.

01:14:58 ◼   ► That is not true.

01:15:01 ◼   ► Is it Dan Lyons?

01:15:02 ◼   ► It is not Dan Lyons.

01:15:03 ◼   ► It is not Dan Lyons, who I think apparently, this is a weird segue, his episode of Silicon

01:15:09 ◼   ► Valley airs on Sunday, which I guess is interesting.

01:15:13 ◼   ► Now Marco, I know you've seen basically no movies ever.

01:15:16 ◼   ► That's basically correct, yeah.

01:15:18 ◼   ► Have you managed to see Fight Club though?

01:15:20 ◼   ► Yes.

01:15:21 ◼   ► Okay, alright.

01:15:22 ◼   ► And Casey, obviously you've seen movies.

01:15:24 ◼   ► you're someone plugged into pop culture.

01:15:25 ◼   ► So clearly you've seen Fight Club.

01:15:26 ◼   ► - Well, I'm marginally more plugged into Marco,

01:15:30 ◼   ► but yes, I would say I am marginally more plugged in.

01:15:33 ◼   ► And I have seen Fight Club, although to be honest,

01:15:36 ◼   ► I have not seen it in years.

01:15:38 ◼   ► - Okay, well shame on you,

01:15:40 ◼   ► because it's still an amazing movie.

01:15:42 ◼   ► So shame on you, first of all.

01:15:43 ◼   ► Second of all, today the first issue of the comic book,

01:15:48 ◼   ► which is going to serve as the sequel to Fight Club,

01:15:50 ◼   ► Fight Club 2, the first issue came out.

01:15:52 ◼   ► - There's gonna be a sequel to Fight Club?

01:15:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, Paul and Chuck, the author,

01:15:57 ◼   ► is writing, is debuting as a graphic novel first,

01:15:59 ◼   ► you know, comic book form, monthly issues,

01:16:01 ◼   ► and then it'll be put into a book.

01:16:03 ◼   ► - That's crazy.

01:16:04 ◼   ► - It's very crazy.

01:16:05 ◼   ► So I used Dark Horse as the comic, I guess,

01:16:09 ◼   ► publisher or whatever that's doing it.

01:16:10 ◼   ► So I'm going to have to pick up

01:16:13 ◼   ► an actual physical copy just because,

01:16:15 ◼   ► but I bought the digital copy today

01:16:17 ◼   ► and read it on the train ride home, which was lovely.

01:16:21 ◼   ► But it's kind of cool though to think about,

01:16:23 ◼   ► like I was thinking about how much tech has changed

01:16:26 ◼   ► and how much my life has changed

01:16:27 ◼   ► when I saw Fight Club in the movie theater

01:16:28 ◼   ► when I was 16 and 99, yeah.

01:16:32 ◼   ► And a date with a boy, or he was a man actually.

01:16:38 ◼   ► He was like six years older than me.

01:16:40 ◼   ► - Is that legal?

01:16:41 ◼   ► - Oh goodness.

01:16:43 ◼   ► - In Georgia, yeah.

01:16:44 ◼   ► - This is taking a turn kids.

01:16:45 ◼   ► - No, in Georgia it was, yeah.

01:16:47 ◼   ► In Georgia the age of consent is 16, so yeah we were fine.

01:16:49 ◼   ► - Oh God.

01:16:50 ◼   ► So it's creepy but legal.

01:16:52 ◼   ► Creepy but legal.

01:16:53 ◼   ► He was older than my sister but it was – no, no, here's where it was screwed up.

01:16:57 ◼   ► I told him I was a year older than I was.

01:16:59 ◼   ► He told me he was a year younger than he was.

01:17:01 ◼   ► So we both thought we were like lying but like oh, it's perfect.

01:17:04 ◼   ► It was on and off again, dramatic relationship.

01:17:07 ◼   ► He then broke up with me the final time over voicemail while he owed me $300 because that's

01:17:11 ◼   ► a winner folks.

01:17:12 ◼   ► Yikes.

01:17:13 ◼   ► No, it's fine.

01:17:14 ◼   ► I still fight club in the theater with him though and when I think about like 16-year-old

01:17:18 ◼   ► me versus like 32 year old me, just how much has changed in the world. But the core message

01:17:24 ◼   ► of the film still resonates. It's really interesting. I don't know.

01:17:28 ◼   ► So is there a way to discuss the premise of Fight Club 2 without spoiling Fight Club 1?

01:17:34 ◼   ► Um, yeah. And if not, we can just sound the spoiler horn and people can get over it.

01:17:40 ◼   ► Honestly, I think we just sound the spoiler horn. The movie came out in 1999.

01:17:44 ◼   ► Yeah. Like honestly, like, like, like, like Rosebud

01:17:47 ◼   ► is the name of the sled. Like, I'm sorry. Like, there's certain things, like, whatever.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Well, I think the simple threshold is, if I've seen it, it's safe to spoil.

01:17:56 ◼   ► Right. I agree. I was going to say, if Marco has seen it, it's like—

01:17:58 ◼   ► Well, if both of us have seen it.

01:18:00 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:18:00 ◼   ► I mean, at that point, you have no excuses anymore.

01:18:03 ◼   ► And also, our audience, I got to think, like, this is the sort of audience,

01:18:07 ◼   ► like, you've seen Fight Club. Like, it's one of those movies. But, I mean, the idea is basically

01:18:10 ◼   ► that it's 10 years after the events of Fight Club and, like, what's happened. And it's, like,

01:18:14 ◼   ► basically Tyler comes back, Tyler being the narrator's kind of split personality who's

01:18:19 ◼   ► an anarchist. And I just read the first issue because that's all that's out, but it's

01:18:24 ◼   ► good. It's cool. It's interesting that a sequel is happening and that it's happening

01:18:29 ◼   ► in comic book form and he's also writing the screenplay for Lullaby, I guess, one of

01:18:36 ◼   ► the adaptations for one of his other books and writing the graphic novel really helped

01:18:40 ◼   ► him writing the screenplay, adapting his own work. So, because he came into our office

01:18:46 ◼   ► last week. That's my way of humble bragging about that. And I, of course, fangirled the

01:18:53 ◼   ► frack out. Like, I was such a freaking fangirl, like, I couldn't even stand it. And I was

01:18:57 ◼   ► the only one who asked a fan question, and he seemed almost relieved because everybody

01:19:01 ◼   ► else was asking questions like, "Oh, what do you think about this?" and like more

01:19:05 ◼   ► existential like writer-y questions. And I was like, "What is the deal with the Invisible

01:19:08 ◼   ► monsters movie. Is it ever going to happen?" He's like, "I don't know." And we had a

01:19:12 ◼   ► long talk about it. And I was like, "This is amazing."

01:19:15 ◼   ► And then I made things very awkward because I forgot my paper books. So I had him sign

01:19:23 ◼   ► using a paint app. I had him sign a book cover on my iPad. He was very confused by the whole

01:19:29 ◼   ► process. But I've done that before. B.J. Novak, who was a writer in the office, he

01:19:33 ◼   ► wrote a book of short stories. And when he came into our office last year, I had him

01:19:37 ◼   ► sign my iPad copy that way and he thought it was awesome. He was like, "This is great,

01:19:43 ◼   ► Chuck Paul and Chuck." Not so much, but I do have his finger written digitally signed

01:19:51 ◼   ► covers to my books. And then because I'm a super nerd, you guys will be the only people

01:19:54 ◼   ► who appreciate this. So basically what I do is I take a screenshot of the cover on the

01:19:59 ◼   ► Kindle and then use the Paint program to get rid of some of the superfluous page marks

01:20:06 ◼   ► then had used the Paint program with the pen sort of thing to sign.

01:20:11 ◼   ► Save that as a PDF or PNG.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Then open up the, basically, hack the Amazon, the Kindle DRM, so that it's like the pure

01:20:20 ◼   ► like AZW file or whatever.

01:20:23 ◼   ► And then switch out the cover image that is included in the file with the cover image

01:20:29 ◼   ► that has the autograph on it.

01:20:31 ◼   ► repackage it, resend it to upload it to my Kindle Cloud account, which then means that

01:20:36 ◼   ► all my devices are synced and have the autographed copy as the front cover of the e-book.

01:20:45 ◼   ► That is a stunning amount of work to go through.

01:20:48 ◼   ► With respect, you could have brought a physical book and a Sharpie and it probably would have

01:20:53 ◼   ► done the trick.

01:20:54 ◼   ► Well, here's the thing.

01:20:55 ◼   ► First of all, yes.

01:20:56 ◼   ► And if I'd remembered my first edition of Invisible Monsters, the world would be better

01:20:59 ◼   ► and I would feel more comfortable. But that didn't happen and I wasn't about to buy another

01:21:03 ◼   ► print book that I don't have room for in my apartment because I do live in New York, keep

01:21:06 ◼   ► in mind. My DVDs are taking up all my space. They're my children, I'm not getting rid of

01:21:12 ◼   ► them. But the books can burn but the DVDs and Blu-rays are never dying.

01:21:20 ◼   ► Well you know you could upload them, use a paint program to remove their covers, put

01:21:24 ◼   ► them on your cloud account, have them sync over to your devices.

01:21:26 ◼   ► I know.

01:21:27 ◼   ► But this way it's just cool to see the autographed thing.

01:21:30 ◼   ► Like any time I go through my Kindle library, I see the autographed cover.

01:21:32 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying.

01:21:33 ◼   ► I mean, it was a pain in the ass, but after I did it one time, I was like, "Well, this

01:21:36 ◼   ► isn't a big of a deal."

01:21:38 ◼   ► I could script it if I wanted to.

01:21:40 ◼   ► It could be an app that dozens of us in history could use.

01:21:44 ◼   ► Dozens of us.

01:21:45 ◼   ► Dozens of us.

01:21:46 ◼   ► That's awesome.

01:21:47 ◼   ► All right.

01:21:48 ◼   ► So you said that Fight Club 2, it's happening monthly?

01:21:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:52 ◼   ► That's the story?

01:21:53 ◼   ► Okay.

01:21:54 ◼   ► And you're getting it on which app on your iDevices?

01:21:56 ◼   ► Dark Horse makes an app, so it's not part of comicology.

01:21:59 ◼   ► They're one of the big holdouts.

01:22:00 ◼   ► So you go, you just Dark Horse digital.

01:22:03 ◼   ► And then I'm also, this is gonna be one that I'm gonna have to find a comic book store

01:22:06 ◼   ► that is still open when I leave the office, which are words I never thought I would say

01:22:10 ◼   ► as an adult married person.

01:22:11 ◼   ► I never thought we'd hear this on our show either.

01:22:14 ◼   ► Right?

01:22:15 ◼   ► Merlin and Moises are just rolling in excitement right now that somehow that this is probably

01:22:20 ◼   ► an elaborate troll on their part to get Marco and I to talk about comics.

01:22:25 ◼   ► This took a turn.

01:22:26 ◼   ► - I mean, look, it was this sort of,

01:22:28 ◼   ► we could have a very in-depth discussion about Taylor Swift,

01:22:32 ◼   ► but I don't wanna,

01:22:34 ◼   ► I feel like you guys would make fun of her too much,

01:22:36 ◼   ► and I'm just really not prepared to deal with that.

01:22:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:22:39 ◼   ► - Well, the reality is,

01:22:39 ◼   ► I have absolutely nothing bad to say about her,

01:22:42 ◼   ► because I have no idea about anything she does.

01:22:44 ◼   ► Like, it'd be good if she's,

01:22:45 ◼   ► and not because, like, I'm like willfully avoiding her.

01:22:48 ◼   ► - No, I understand.

01:22:49 ◼   ► - Because I am that oblivious to what goes on

01:22:51 ◼   ► in modern life.

01:22:52 ◼   ► - She's amazing, and that's all you need to know.

01:22:54 ◼   ► She's incredible.

01:22:55 ◼   ► She's our generation's Joni Mitchell.

01:22:56 ◼   ► I'm not saying that she's as good as Joni at all.

01:22:58 ◼   ► I'm saying she's basically our Joni and damn it, that's fine.

01:23:02 ◼   ► Louis Mantant, I had this discussion at XOXO and then proceeded to drunkenly run around

01:23:08 ◼   ► the Panax offices and get people to tell us how they pronounce "jif."

01:23:14 ◼   ► Everyone said "gif" except for Cable, which I took as a partial victory, but no, I lost.

01:23:20 ◼   ► I lost that word.

01:23:21 ◼   ► Wait, you're a "jif" person?

01:23:22 ◼   ► I am a "jif" person.

01:23:23 ◼   ► - Alright, well that wraps up the show for this week.

01:23:25 ◼   ► - Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week,

01:23:27 ◼   ► Fracture, MailRoute, and Backblaze.

01:23:30 ◼   ► And Christina, since you aren't mentioned in the song,

01:23:32 ◼   ► where can people find you?

01:23:33 ◼   ► - So you can find me on Twitter @film_girl or Jirl.

01:23:37 ◼   ► - Oh God.

01:23:39 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:23:42 ◼   ► Oh my.

01:23:43 ◼   ► - You can find me at Mashable

01:23:44 ◼   ► where I'm a senior tech correspondent,

01:23:46 ◼   ► which basically just means I do periscopes and stuff.

01:23:49 ◼   ► And occasionally write reviews.

01:23:51 ◼   ► And you can listen to me on Rocket, a podcast that also airs live at this time, with the

01:23:58 ◼   ► fabulous Brianna Wu and Simone de Rochefort, as well as a podcast called Over Tired that

01:24:04 ◼   ► I do with the amazing and totally geektastic Brett Terpstra.

01:24:08 ◼   ► And that podcast, you guys, the tagline is actually pretty brilliant.

01:24:11 ◼   ► It's "From Objective-C to the O.C.

01:24:14 ◼   ► From Swift to Taylor Swift."

01:24:15 ◼   ► That's seriously our tagline on our show.

01:24:20 ◼   ► pretty awesome. And we should point out that in case it wasn't clear, and in case you missed the

01:24:24 ◼   ► beginning, our dear friend john Sarah kusa is has been the guest on rocket for this week. So we will

01:24:32 ◼   ► put put links to that episode in the show notes. He'll be back. Yeah, well, everyone, everything's

01:24:36 ◼   ► going back going back to normal next week. But you should definitely check out john and rocket. I am

01:24:40 ◼   ► definitely genuinely excited. I can't wait to hear Oh, I don't even want to think about what how

01:24:45 ◼   ► that's gonna go it because I'm sure it's gonna be

01:24:47 ◼   ► Simone and John, I'm really looking forward to that meeting, that culture clash. I'm super

01:24:53 ◼   ► excited.

01:24:54 ◼   ► I kind of hope that he found a way to do follow-up on your show.

01:24:56 ◼   ► Oh, goodness. All right. Well, thank you so much, Christina.

01:25:01 ◼   ► Now the show is over They didn't even mean to begin

01:25:08 ◼   ► 'Cause it was accidental Oh, it was accidental

01:25:13 ◼   ► John didn't do any research Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:25:19 ◼   ► Cause it was accidental Or it was accidental

01:25:25 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm And if you're into Twitter

01:25:32 ◼   ► You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:25:39 ◼   ► So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, Auntie Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C, USA, Syracuse.

01:25:51 ◼   ► It's accidental.

01:25:53 ◼   ► It's accidental.

01:25:54 ◼   ► They didn't mean to.

01:25:57 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:25:58 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:25:59 ◼   ► Tech podcast so long.

01:26:04 ◼   ► Now here's the real question for you, Marco.

01:26:07 ◼   ► How do you take your chili?

01:26:08 ◼   ► Hmm. I don't, I shouldn't answer this.

01:26:12 ◼   ► Isn't that like an Ohio thing? Like there's a, there's like Ohio, the Cincinnati styles

01:26:16 ◼   ► of chili and like other styles of chili?

01:26:18 ◼   ► Wait, yeah, what are the options? What, what are available options for how you take a chili?

01:26:22 ◼   ► Well, okay, I should, I should clarify first of all that I like turkey bacon. Not in my

01:26:30 ◼   ► chili, but just in general, I like turkey bacon.

01:26:32 ◼   ► More than pig bacon?

01:26:34 ◼   ► Yes.

01:26:35 ◼   ► Weird.

01:26:36 ◼   ► I quit the show.

01:26:37 ◼   ► And so this is why when I, I shouldn't be asked about, about foods that people hold

01:26:43 ◼   ► deer.

01:26:44 ◼   ► Like bacon?

01:26:45 ◼   ► No, I'm not really, I don't care anything about like that sort of thing.

01:26:48 ◼   ► I'm just saying like aren't there like in Ohio, isn't there like an Ohio way, Cincinnati

01:26:51 ◼   ► way of having chili where like it's like on top of spaghetti and like there's all sorts

01:26:55 ◼   ► of like weird stuff on it where it's like a different sort of meal than like here at

01:26:58 ◼   ► Chili's like in a bowl.

01:26:59 ◼   ► Well I think that's mostly Cincinnati and where I've never actually been.

01:27:03 ◼   ► Okay, okay, well never mind.

01:27:05 ◼   ► Right.

01:27:06 ◼   ► Christina's knowledge of the state of Ohio.

01:27:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:27:09 ◼   ► - And Columbus is much more about the ranch dressing,

01:27:11 ◼   ► which I think that it's traveled further now,

01:27:13 ◼   ► but now, if you go to Columbus,

01:27:17 ◼   ► whenever I'd go and visit my mom when she lived there still,

01:27:20 ◼   ► I would always be surprised in restaurants by how,

01:27:24 ◼   ► first of all, everything you got was tremendous.

01:27:27 ◼   ► By New York standards, by any standards,

01:27:29 ◼   ► any food you ordered, any drink you ordered,

01:27:32 ◼   ► the drinks would come in these 40 ounce plastic diner cups,

01:27:35 ◼   ► just regular drinks, water, anything would come,

01:27:37 ◼   ► like the biggest things possible.

01:27:39 ◼   ► And everything would be covered in ranch dressing.

01:27:42 ◼   ► If you ordered something that included dressing,

01:27:45 ◼   ► like I ordered a, on my last visit there

01:27:48 ◼   ► before she moved out,

01:27:49 ◼   ► I ordered a like Greek salad wrap or something.

01:27:52 ◼   ► And the wrap, like it was like the Steve Jobs iPod

01:27:55 ◼   ► dropping the fish tank story,

01:27:57 ◼   ► there was no air in the wrap.

01:28:00 ◼   ► Every gap was filled with dressing.

01:28:03 ◼   ► So I bit into it and the bottom fell out

01:28:05 ◼   ► and just like dressing just poured out.

01:28:07 ◼   ► Like it was, oh my God, it was crazy.

01:28:09 ◼   ► So to answer your original question,

01:28:11 ◼   ► I have not had a lot of different kinds of chili.

01:28:15 ◼   ► The chili I've had I like,

01:28:17 ◼   ► but I don't have a strong opinion on it

01:28:19 ◼   ► and one of my favorite chilies is actually vegetarian.

01:28:22 ◼   ► So I also like turkey bacon, so I'm sorry.

01:28:25 ◼   ► - I can't get over that you prefer turkey bacon

01:28:29 ◼   ► to pig bacon, this is a genuine travesty in my world.

01:28:32 ◼   ► Not all turkey bacon.

01:28:33 ◼   ► I've had a lot of, like, most of the turkey bacon

01:28:36 ◼   ► varieties I have tried have been awful.

01:28:38 ◼   ► But the Oscar Mayer one is really good.

01:28:40 ◼   ► - This is, my world is upside down.

01:28:43 ◼   ► Having Christina on the show, no big deal.

01:28:45 ◼   ► - Right, but Marco eating a turkey bacon.

01:28:48 ◼   ► - Oh, unacceptable.

01:28:49 ◼   ► - That's bizarre.

01:28:50 ◼   ► - We're gonna get way more nasty feedback on that.

01:28:53 ◼   ► - As you should, frankly, I mean,

01:28:55 ◼   ► because how can you even call it a bacon

01:28:57 ◼   ► if it's from a turkey and not from a pig?

01:28:59 ◼   ► I mean, what the hell?

01:29:00 ◼   ► Like pork is what, - Preach it.

01:29:02 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:29:03 ◼   ► - See, now you've pissed off both of us.

01:29:04 ◼   ► I hope you're happy.

01:29:05 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:29:06 ◼   ► - I think I'm gonna have to have some shells and cheese

01:29:08 ◼   ► or something to get over this, Casey.

01:29:09 ◼   ► - I have a recommendation for you if you'd like to know.

01:29:13 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:29:13 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:29:14 ◼   ► - Well, I also, I'm a big fan of, I think it's Amy's.

01:29:18 ◼   ► I think it's Amy's canned chili.

01:29:20 ◼   ► It's like, I think it's even vegan.

01:29:22 ◼   ► It's a canned chili that, it's definitely vegetarian.

01:29:25 ◼   ► And I like it, I don't like, chili in a can, it works great.

01:29:30 ◼   ► It's a great kind of food for cans.

01:29:31 ◼   ► It's great to have in the cabinet for when it's snowing

01:29:34 ◼   ► and you don't wanna go out and get lunch or whatever.

01:29:36 ◼   ► It's great, but I'm not a huge fan of eating canned meat.

01:29:40 ◼   ► That seems wrong to me.

01:29:41 ◼   ► I don't like to do that.

01:29:43 ◼   ► So vegetable chili is great for that.

01:29:45 ◼   ► Now, in the mac and cheese discussion, Casey,

01:29:48 ◼   ► I think Mike's description of it was accurate.

01:29:52 ◼   ► - Oh, I would agree with that, actually.

01:29:54 ◼   ► - However, I agree that it does taste good

01:29:58 ◼   ► for a certain definition of good.

01:30:01 ◼   ► It is total plastic garbage.

01:30:03 ◼   ► - Right.

01:30:04 ◼   ► - But it is good plastic garbage.

01:30:05 ◼   ► - I can agree with that.

01:30:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, that's fine.

01:30:08 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I like it.

01:30:09 ◼   ► I have to admit my favorite mac and cheese

01:30:11 ◼   ► in the entire world is just the Kraft Blue Box.

01:30:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, see, I've had the Kraft Blue Box very recently,

01:30:18 ◼   ► in the last couple of weeks, maybe a month.

01:30:20 ◼   ► And to me, I find it to be completely tasteless.

01:30:24 ◼   ► I find it to be completely bland.

01:30:25 ◼   ► And I've got to be the crazy one here

01:30:27 ◼   ► because everyone seems to think that Kraft mac and cheese

01:30:31 ◼   ► I think they call it Kraft Dinner in crazy places like Australia.

01:30:34 ◼   ► Yeah, Kraft Dinner in Canada.

01:30:36 ◼   ► Canada, they call it Kraft Dinner.

01:30:37 ◼   ► Oh, it's a Canadian?

01:30:38 ◼   ► Oh, I thought it was an Australian thing.

01:30:39 ◼   ► It might be an Australian thing too, but they definitely call it Kraft Dinner in Canada.

01:30:42 ◼   ► In fact, there's even a reference to it in the If I Had a Million Dollars song by the

01:30:46 ◼   ► Barenaked Ladies.

01:30:48 ◼   ► We wouldn't have to eat Kraft Dinner, but we still would.

01:30:55 ◼   ► I never realized that.

01:30:56 ◼   ► Good call.

01:30:57 ◼   ► So yeah, so a lot of people or most people swear that Kraft Dinner is where it's at.

01:31:01 ◼   ► I find it to be completely, completely bland.

01:31:05 ◼   ► Really?

01:31:06 ◼   ► You didn't grow up eating it as a kid?

01:31:07 ◼   ► Because as a kid, like, that was what I grew up eating.

01:31:08 ◼   ► I loved it.

01:31:09 ◼   ► I still love it.

01:31:10 ◼   ► Like, it is my favorite.

01:31:11 ◼   ► Like, Easy Mac is the Kraft Dinner sort of variant, although, you know, it's Easy Mac

01:31:14 ◼   ► so it's really not as good or whatever.

01:31:16 ◼   ► Well, let me be clear.

01:31:17 ◼   ► I will eat the sh*t out of some Kraft Dinner.

01:31:18 ◼   ► I'm just saying if I had a choice, I would definitely take Velveeta.

01:31:22 ◼   ► The Velveeta.

01:31:23 ◼   ► You would do the shells and cheese.

01:31:24 ◼   ► Yeah, I would definitely do the Kraft Dinner over the shells and cheese, although I'll

01:31:27 ◼   ► all do both. I mean, I have no problem with either one. But for me, there's almost nothing

01:31:31 ◼   ► better than like craft, like blue box craft macaroni and cheese, the $1.19 of the box.

01:31:35 ◼   ► Like it's amazing.

01:31:36 ◼   ► This show is taking such a turn. I think it all started with me.

01:31:40 ◼   ► It really has. I mean, and whenever I say this, people like get horrified and I'm like,

01:31:45 ◼   ► yeah, I have the palette of a six year old. It's fine.

01:31:47 ◼   ► Well, yeah, that stuff is good. I mean, it is good, right? Like, like, so we, we now

01:31:51 ◼   ► make macaroni and cheese for our three year old on a semi regular basis. We get like the

01:31:55 ◼   ► with the fancy organic Annie's whatever, whatever,

01:31:58 ◼   ► but it's basically the same thing.

01:32:00 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:32:01 ◼   ► And I always snack out of the pot after I've made it

01:32:06 ◼   ► because it's really good when it's fresh.

01:32:08 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:32:08 ◼   ► - And Tiff and I both, neither of us really want to admit

01:32:12 ◼   ► to each other how much we've eaten when this happens.

01:32:15 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:32:17 ◼   ► But we both eat a good amount of it

01:32:18 ◼   ► because it's just really good

01:32:20 ◼   ► and it does not reheat well at all.

01:32:22 ◼   ► - No.

01:32:23 ◼   ► - No.

01:32:24 ◼   ► like he will barely ever touch reheated macaroni and cheese

01:32:26 ◼   ► even though we always try the next day.

01:32:28 ◼   ► We always try, but it's like,

01:32:30 ◼   ► between the three of us we can easily finish off a box

01:32:35 ◼   ► without Tiff or I intending to have eaten much of it.

01:32:38 ◼   ► Like, 'cause Adam can eat about half a box already,

01:32:40 ◼   ► which is impressive for somebody who's three

01:32:42 ◼   ► and like 30 pounds or something.

01:32:44 ◼   ► So that's pretty good, but--

01:32:46 ◼   ► - It's so good.

01:32:47 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:32:47 ◼   ► - If you put hot dogs in it.

01:32:49 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, as a kid, yeah.

01:32:50 ◼   ► I mean, he doesn't eat 'em yet, but I have definitely,

01:32:53 ◼   ► Not only did I do that a lot as a kid,

01:32:56 ◼   ► but I have had that meal as an adult for dinner before.

01:32:59 ◼   ► - Oh, I'm not judging you on that one.

01:33:01 ◼   ► - I had that for Thanksgiving one year.

01:33:03 ◼   ► - Nice.

01:33:04 ◼   ► - I don't do Thanksgiving food,

01:33:05 ◼   ► so my dad always makes me a steak every year,

01:33:07 ◼   ► and then I have the different type of mashed potatoes

01:33:09 ◼   ► because I don't like the mashed potato casserole,

01:33:11 ◼   ► and I'm the pain in the ass

01:33:12 ◼   ► if a child has to have different dinner.

01:33:13 ◼   ► And when I was little, my parents thought

01:33:15 ◼   ► I'd just grow out of it, so they would be satisfied

01:33:17 ◼   ► with me eating bread and cranberry sauce.

01:33:20 ◼   ► And then as I got older, they were like,

01:33:21 ◼   ► this is getting stupid, we'll just make you a steak.

01:33:23 ◼   ► But one year I went to visit my then boyfriend

01:33:26 ◼   ► and his family in Seattle, and he made me

01:33:30 ◼   ► mac and cheese with hot dogs cut up in it,

01:33:32 ◼   ► and it was amazing.

01:33:33 ◼   ► That and wine, and the rest of the family

01:33:34 ◼   ► just kind of looked at me, and they're like,

01:33:36 ◼   ► yeah, great girl you got there, Eric.

01:33:37 ◼   ► - You had mac and cheese with hot dogs and wine?

01:33:39 ◼   ► - Yeah. - That's awesome.

01:33:41 ◼   ► - Right?

01:33:42 ◼   ► That was my Thanksgiving.

01:33:43 ◼   ► - That is pretty ridiculous.

01:33:44 ◼   ► - Oh, that is fantastic.

01:33:45 ◼   ► Well, yeah, and with Thanksgiving,

01:33:46 ◼   ► the turkey, filling up on turkey

01:33:48 ◼   ► is kind of an amateur move on Thanksgiving,

01:33:50 ◼   ► because usually everything else that you have on Thanksgiving is better than the turkey.

01:33:54 ◼   ► Even if you have a really good turkey, it just so happens that side dishes on Thanksgiving

01:33:57 ◼   ► are amazing. And most people don't have really good turkey, so it's even worse.

01:34:02 ◼   ► So let me kind of segue this into a slightly different topic. Out of curiosity, Marco,

01:34:08 ◼   ► when you're going back to Columbus, which I know you said you don't really do anymore,

01:34:11 ◼   ► but let's say hypothetically you're going tomorrow to Columbus, what is the first food

01:34:17 ◼   ► item that you're going to seek out.

01:34:19 ◼   ► Do I have to eat anything while I'm there?

01:34:22 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm saying like you're in Columbus. You want something that reminds you of home,

01:34:26 ◼   ► that reminds you like something that maybe you can't get in New York or that you just miss.

01:34:31 ◼   ► He's like, do you go straight to Steak and Shake or whatever?

01:34:33 ◼   ► I think, yeah, Steak and Shake is a good choice because you can't really get that around here.

01:34:37 ◼   ► I don't think I've ever been.

01:34:38 ◼   ► Oh, it's great. You got to go to Steak and Shake at the Frisco Melt. That's it, and a shake.

01:34:42 ◼   ► The Frisco Melt is in San Francisco?

01:34:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, so it's like a sourdough bread,

01:34:47 ◼   ► and then it's like a patty melt with sourdough bread.

01:34:50 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, yep.

01:34:51 ◼   ► - Jesus, what do you not know, Christina?

01:34:52 ◼   ► Oh, God, you're killing me.

01:34:54 ◼   ► - I know my fast food.

01:34:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:34:57 ◼   ► - So you know the important stuff.

01:34:58 ◼   ► - Tiff and I, when we were in college in Pennsylvania,

01:35:01 ◼   ► they didn't, at the time,

01:35:02 ◼   ► they didn't have any Steak and Shakes in Pennsylvania.

01:35:03 ◼   ► I don't know if they do now.

01:35:05 ◼   ► But they did have them all over Ohio.

01:35:07 ◼   ► And we were in Pennsylvania

01:35:09 ◼   ► only about 15 miles from the Ohio border.