119: Promoretired


00:00:00   I know this is pre-follow-up and that's kind of against the rules to put anything before follow-up in the show deliberately

00:00:06   But John isn't here right now and so I can get away with it because I say I can

00:00:12   I wanted to tell you guys that I have

00:00:16   Amended and changed my water routine for when I record

00:00:20   The reason I've done that is because I have now killed Erin's laptop twice. This is the mighty mug

00:00:27   I believe it's called and

00:00:29   What's amazing about it is if I push on it, it doesn't fall over yet if I just pick it up

00:00:36   It works. No problem. Let me get the mic closer so you can get a so I can hear the water not spilling on the laptop

00:00:42   Yeah, exactly. So here we go. I'm pushing

00:00:44   Nothing's happening. How amazing is that? And then if I just pick it up no problem

00:00:50   So, yeah, so I just want to let you know that my water situation is now better because of underscore David Smith

00:00:58   so I appreciate that. That guy makes everything better. He really does. And you know what

00:01:01   else makes everything better? Doing a crossover with Rocket. And so the voice that you hear

00:01:08   that is not John Syracuse is a friend of the show, Christina Warren. So Christina, welcome.

00:01:13   I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to be here. I feel like I'm not sure if you guys got the

00:01:19   good end of the bargain or the bad end because so John is on Syracuse is on Rocket right

00:01:25   now, the podcast I do with Brianna Wu and Simone de Rochefort, and I'm here.

00:01:31   And I'm super excited, but...

00:01:33   As are we.

00:01:34   As are we.

00:01:35   Yeah.

00:01:36   Some of the audience members are not.

00:01:37   I'm already seeing some hate tweets come through, which is awesome.

00:01:39   Send them on forward, like, "Seriously, Phil Slip, dude, hate on."

00:01:44   It's already happening?

00:01:45   It's already happening, which honestly is awesome.

00:01:48   And here's the thing.

00:01:49   I mean, obviously I don't deal with as much stuff as a lot of women on Twitter.

00:01:52   I'm very fortunate.

00:01:53   But I have a very thick skin because I've been in the media business for a long time,

00:01:59   so honestly, you can hate, I hope the listeners don't hate me, I hope they like me, but if

00:02:04   they don't, that's okay and it's not gonna hurt my feelings.

00:02:07   - Yeah, so we're just doing a little something special.

00:02:09   We're, like I said, sending John over to Rocket.

00:02:12   We have Christina here, which is excellent.

00:02:14   - And by the way, Rocket is really good.

00:02:16   - Thank you.

00:02:17   - I think I keep not saying this in public 'cause I keep thinking I've already said it.

00:02:23   And I don't want to like say it like as like a tack on when we're talking about women in

00:02:27   tech because that kind of seems like kind of patronizing.

00:02:29   Right, right.

00:02:30   But I really, it is, not only is it very good, not only have I heard every episode, but it

00:02:34   has quickly joined one of my top few priority slots in Overcast that when it comes out,

00:02:38   I listen to it usually same day, if not the next day because it is just one of my favorites.

00:02:45   Yep.

00:02:46   Well, thank you.

00:02:47   I'm super, super psyched to see, to hear that.

00:02:48   We've really enjoyed it.

00:02:49   been a fun process. And I don't know about Brie, but I know that I totally went into

00:02:55   it like, yeah, we totally want to do an ATP, but with kind of female voices. So thanks

00:03:01   you guys for having created, accidentally, such a great show that we could copy and profit

00:03:06   from.

00:03:07   I agree with what Marco said, and less has turned into a two-hour accidental mutual admiration

00:03:13   Society, let's just start with some follow-up as per usual.

00:03:18   So I made-

00:03:19   Wait, are we allowed to do follow-up without Jon?

00:03:21   Dude, whatever.

00:03:22   He's not here to yell at us.

00:03:23   Yeah, I was gonna say, like, really?

00:03:24   We should go through it in like 30 seconds.

00:03:26   I mean, I can complain if you guys need somebody to complain on him and Haa about stuff.

00:03:31   I can do that.

00:03:32   I'd be curious to hear that.

00:03:33   Seriously.

00:03:34   So first of all, how many windows do you have open right now, Christina?

00:03:38   Uh, one, two, three, four, five, six.

00:03:42   So only six.

00:03:43   - That's, okay, you are definitely not a John replacement.

00:03:46   - No.

00:03:47   - None of us can be.

00:03:49   - Yeah, that's just not it.

00:03:52   All right, so some quick follow-up.

00:03:54   Number one, the Showbot is apparently not working

00:03:56   for the first time in months,

00:03:58   and I'm not gonna try to diagnose that right now.

00:04:00   - Oh, John missed that?

00:04:01   - I know.

00:04:02   See, this is already taking a turn we didn't expect.

00:04:06   This might relate to the fact that Heroku

00:04:08   has very recently changed their pricing,

00:04:11   and I'm not sure if the show bot has now run afoul of that

00:04:15   and I am not going to diagnose while I'm on the air.

00:04:18   - Is this like one of those exciting new opportunities

00:04:19   that really just makes everything worse and more expensive?

00:04:22   - Uh, simple answer, yes.

00:04:24   Long answer, maybe.

00:04:26   - Did the answer begin with, we're happy to announce.

00:04:29   (laughing)

00:04:30   We're incredibly excited to tell you

00:04:31   about how we've made our service worse and more expensive.

00:04:33   - Exactly.

00:04:34   Salesforce is happy to say that we finally figured out

00:04:36   a way to profit off of all of these,

00:04:38   what are they called, raptors?

00:04:41   What are they?

00:04:42   - Dinos.

00:04:43   - Dinos, thank you.

00:04:44   (laughs)

00:04:44   - I like that better.

00:04:46   See, to me, it's all like,

00:04:48   these are all voodoo made up terms by Heroku,

00:04:50   so that's, Raptor's just as good as any.

00:04:53   - Exactly, exactly.

00:04:54   So yeah, so I apologize for the showbot.

00:04:57   Really quickly, I alluded to Aaron's laptop earlier.

00:04:59   Aaron's laptop is on its way to the depot,

00:05:01   whatever the depot is.

00:05:03   I brought it to the Apple Store on Monday, on Memorial Day.

00:05:07   I fessed up and said water was spilled on it,

00:05:10   and this was about halfway through the conversation with the genius, and the moment I said water

00:05:14   was spilled on it, the conversation effectively ended.

00:05:17   Yep.

00:05:18   And he said, "Okay, that means it's a Tier 4 repair," which apparently, obviously, there's

00:05:23   multiple tiers for sending it to the depot, "that's a Tier 4 repair, which will be $665

00:05:28   for parts no matter how much or little needs to be repaired, plus $100 for labor plus tax."

00:05:33   So I'm in for $755, I think it is, I'm sorry.

00:05:38   plus tax, I'll get it back in about a week.

00:05:41   - This is for a MacBook Air, correct?

00:05:43   - That's right, this is for a eight month old MacBook Air

00:05:46   that I got Erin for her birthday last year

00:05:49   because I'm the best husband ever.

00:05:50   - Totally, isn't it a shame that AppleCare+ on the phone,

00:05:54   on the watch, and the iPad will cover water damage

00:05:56   but they don't offer AppleCare+ for the laptops

00:05:59   because that would totally be amazing.

00:06:02   I would pay another $50 if I could get water damage

00:06:06   covered on my MacBook.

00:06:07   - Yeah, well, in retrospect.

00:06:09   - I don't know, on the other hand, though,

00:06:10   how much would they charge for that?

00:06:11   Because regular AppleCare on that is, what,

00:06:14   250 and 350 for the 15s?

00:06:16   - Well, that's what I'm saying.

00:06:17   I mean, if you added, say, another $50 on,

00:06:19   I personally would probably pony up for it, but--

00:06:22   - Yeah, but see, but it wouldn't be,

00:06:23   that's the problem, it wouldn't be only 50 bucks.

00:06:25   Like, you know, like we have,

00:06:27   'cause what is it with the watch?

00:06:28   It's 100, or with the phone, even,

00:06:30   it's 100 bucks for regular--

00:06:31   - With the phone, it's 100 for regular,

00:06:34   and then it is 75 for a replacement

00:06:37   if you need to have it replaced,

00:06:38   and you can have two of those.

00:06:40   For the iPad, it's 100, yeah, it's also 100,

00:06:43   but it is $50 per replacement.

00:06:46   Apparently, I'm assuming, just based on this,

00:06:49   they must replace a whole lot more iPhones

00:06:51   than they do iPads, and that's why they charge

00:06:53   a higher replacement fee.

00:06:55   And in fact, the replacement fee went up this year,

00:06:58   like it was $50, and now it's 75.

00:07:01   But if you're like me and you're walking up some steps

00:07:06   after a meeting with some people,

00:07:07   and you literally fall forward and flip,

00:07:09   you trip on your flip-flops and shatter your phone screen

00:07:12   right before XOXO, which coincidentally is the day

00:07:16   before the iPhone 6 pre-orders go on sale.

00:07:18   Like, you need a phone and you go like,

00:07:21   "Okay, well, I gotta go to the Apple store

00:07:22   "and get a new one."

00:07:24   And AppleCare+ came through, I mean,

00:07:26   and people were like, "Oh, you could have just waited

00:07:28   "and pre-ordered the 6."

00:07:29   I was like, first of all,

00:07:30   I couldn't actually swipe on the screen.

00:07:31   Like, I would get glass in my fingers.

00:07:33   Second of all, the phone has to go to my husband

00:07:35   because he gets my tech hand-me-downs.

00:07:37   (laughing)

00:07:38   - And it would probably cause problems

00:07:40   if you gave him a shattered untouchable phone.

00:07:42   - Oh, completely.

00:07:43   No, we already did that with the iPhone 4 or 4S.

00:07:47   - How did that go over?

00:07:48   - It was okay.

00:07:51   That one wasn't that bad, but it was a little bit chipped

00:07:56   and I never ended up, this was before they had,

00:07:58   I think the AppleCare that covered the damage,

00:08:01   the accidental damage or whatever.

00:08:03   And so it worked fine,

00:08:06   and then he ended up doing something to it.

00:08:07   And then I think he wound up giving it to a homeless person.

00:08:10   Only in New York, you guys.

00:08:11   - Okay, I'm not even sure where to go from there.

00:08:14   - I know. - Oh my goodness.

00:08:15   So yeah, so Aaron's laptop is at the depot getting repaired.

00:08:18   I'm already getting suggestions in the chat room

00:08:20   about what I could or should have done.

00:08:23   With respect to those of you making those suggestions,

00:08:25   don't care, it's already done.

00:08:26   This ship has sailed.

00:08:27   It is what it is.

00:08:28   - I am curious though,

00:08:29   because once you're talking almost 800 bucks to repair it,

00:08:33   that's fairly close to the price of replacing it, right?

00:08:35   - Exactly.

00:08:36   - So I'm curious why you chose to go that route.

00:08:38   I mean, is it just like the extra three or 400 bucks

00:08:40   you guys thought was worth it?

00:08:41   - That's enough.

00:08:42   - The three or $400 just didn't seem worth it to me

00:08:45   since the machine was so darn close to new.

00:08:47   And Erin doesn't have particularly

00:08:50   robust needs of her computer.

00:08:52   If anything, I'm the one who has bigger needs

00:08:56   in so far as it needs to be able to withstand spills

00:08:59   and do podcasting and whatnot.

00:09:01   So it just didn't seem worth it to me to spend another three or four hundred dollars just

00:09:06   to get something brand new.

00:09:07   And this tier four repair is basically going to go through the entire computer and replace

00:09:12   darn near all of it.

00:09:13   So I didn't see the point in doing anything different.

00:09:16   People are saying, "Oh, well, you could have sold it for parts and gotten a new one."

00:09:20   Yes, I'm sure I could have.

00:09:21   I could have gazelle'd it perhaps.

00:09:22   Yes, I'm sure I could have.

00:09:23   But this seemed like the...

00:09:25   They probably test for that.

00:09:26   Well, they do.

00:09:27   But Gazelle will give you a discounted amount of money

00:09:30   if they find that it's damaged or something.

00:09:31   So if you sold it to Gazelle saying it has water damage,

00:09:34   they would say, "Okay, well, we value this at $300."

00:09:37   In which case, though, you'd still wind up

00:09:39   spending the same amount of money anyway buying a new one.

00:09:42   - But then you'd have a new one.

00:09:44   - Yeah, but he's basically gonna get a new one anyway.

00:09:46   - Exactly.

00:09:47   Well, there are a couple things that he,

00:09:49   like so there's no, you don't have Broadwell, right?

00:09:51   - Well, that's what I was going to say.

00:09:52   You are actually correct.

00:09:53   The new one would have Broadwell,

00:09:55   Whereas, you know, the 2014 just had Haswell, so.

00:09:58   - And the new one would also have a warranty

00:10:00   that started today.

00:10:01   - Yeah, that's true.

00:10:02   I mean, you could have quarterbacked this differently,

00:10:06   no argument, but it just, I just wanted it done and fixed.

00:10:10   And this was the most reasonable way

00:10:12   in which I felt I could do that

00:10:13   without spending $300 that seemed to me to be unnecessary.

00:10:17   It is not, it certainly I would have gotten,

00:10:20   or Erin would have gotten things for that $300,

00:10:23   but it wasn't a big enough difference

00:10:25   really justify it in my personal estimation. You, as in the collective you, may not agree,

00:10:30   and that's okay. And we're going to hear about it. And we're going to hear about it.

00:10:33   No, you know, the thing too is that since I think that they'll be able to just like move all the

00:10:37   data over or whatever, I mean that, you know, I mean, obviously, I'm sure you have an entire

00:10:41   time machine backup strategy and all that stuff done, you know, we all have our synologies,

00:10:45   I think we all have the same model, the 1813 plus. But, you know, you have a whole setup going that

00:10:52   way, but even just the process of having to reset everything up again, I think it'll come back with

00:10:57   its hard drive and everything intact. I mean, that is probably worth not getting the new machine and

00:11:01   having to set it all up again. Exactly. It's just not worth it to me. So that's the way it is. And

00:11:07   I'm already getting sick of this follow-up. So let's move on. We got a lot of follow-up about

00:11:12   running with your iPhone. And quite honestly, I don't care because nobody really has good answers.

00:11:18   So let me, let me, since Jon isn't here, just say, nobody really knows what the hell is going on.

00:11:23   And that's basically the end of the meeting.

00:11:25   Right.

00:11:25   I love that we just got to skip right over this.

00:11:27   I actually, just about 15 minutes ago, right before the show, I was, for the first time, running briefly,

00:11:36   because I don't run, but running briefly, and then walking a lot between the running brieflys,

00:11:40   with my watch with no phone, because I had to fill my green circle for the day.

00:11:46   Right!

00:11:47   And it's been raining all day as, Christina, you know, being in New York.

00:11:49   Yes. Well, it started raining later this afternoon, but it's been gross out regardless.

00:11:54   Well, yeah, it's been pouring rain for my entire potential dog walking window that I

00:11:59   usually take, which is basically any time after four. So I knew I'd be recording this

00:12:04   show until almost midnight in all likelihood. So, sorry, Christina, if you weren't prepared

00:12:10   for how long it was going to take, I'm not sure what he told you.

00:12:13   I didn't know it was going to go on that long. I mean, I'm totally cool with that. My husband,

00:12:16   who's in his office, like he might get a little,

00:12:19   no, he'll be fine.

00:12:20   - He'll be fine.

00:12:21   - He's got the Plexbox and Sonar,

00:12:24   which is this amazing torrenting news group app.

00:12:27   Do you guys know about Sonar?

00:12:28   - No, I don't think we're supposed to know

00:12:29   about things like that.

00:12:30   - No, we're probably not supposed to talk

00:12:31   about things like this, but it's amazing.

00:12:33   It's basically-- - Right, like Unison.

00:12:34   - Kind of, it's basically an app

00:12:35   that it has a really good interface, a web app,

00:12:37   that you can connect it to a private torrent tracker

00:12:40   or to news groups, which is how we have it set up,

00:12:42   and it'll basically find any TV show you want,

00:12:45   and it'll find it in whatever quality you want it to do, and then it'll tag it and label

00:12:50   it and title it exactly as you want and file it on your NAS or whatever the way you want

00:12:56   it and then Plex just imports it in and all of a sudden you have every episode of Keeping

00:13:02   Up With The Kardashians. Ever. True story.

00:13:05   So it's kind of sort of popcorn time, but not necessarily about the streaming portion.

00:13:11   Exactly, because it's actually locally downloading it. It's just making it super easy to do

00:13:15   do. So for instance, I wanted to watch Keeping Up with the Kardashians, but also we have

00:13:20   all of HBO Silicon Valley. And the thing is that we pay for HBO and HBO Go. And I actually

00:13:25   have like a subscription to HBO Now, which I know was superfluous, but I got a six month

00:13:30   subscription for free. So I've got that in addition to the HBO we pay for, which has

00:13:34   all the on demand stuff, but there's just something convenient about having it through

00:13:37   one interface. I don't know.

00:13:39   How is HBO Now in general?

00:13:41   It's good, I mean it's identical to HBO Go.

00:13:44   So you don't have live content, meaning there's not live linear programming, but basically

00:13:48   within an hour or two of it airing on TV it's available in the app.

00:13:53   It looks really good on the Apple TV and the iPhone and iPad apps are really good.

00:13:57   The web interface is good too.

00:13:59   HBO Go recently updated their apps to basically look the same so that's an improvement.

00:14:03   But no, I mean it's good because you have the entire catalog of not only currently airing

00:14:07   shows but their whole like every HBO owned production. So for instance you don't have

00:14:13   the Larry Sanders show because that was done by Sony but everything from Oz which was in

00:14:18   1997 basically onward, every original series is on there. So you know Oz, The Wire, Sex

00:14:23   and the City, The Sopranos, Big Love, you know obviously Game of Thrones, Girls, Veep,

00:14:31   I mean everything is there as well as a lot of the documentaries as well as whatever first

00:14:37   run movies they've got for that month and then whatever catalog titles they happen to

00:14:40   have. And no, I mean it's a comedy specials, like I found an old comedy special from Kathy

00:14:47   Griffin from like 1995 or 1996 that I probably hadn't seen since 1996. And no, I mean it's

00:14:55   interesting just the amount of content that's there, it's really nice. And so it's, I mean

00:15:00   basically everything you would get in HBO Go but without having to have the cable subscription.

00:15:05   Excellent. All right, any other follow-up? Because we might have made record time through

00:15:09   this and I'm pretty smug about that right now.

00:15:11   Oh, Jon's going to be so mad.

00:15:14   He's going to kill us.

00:15:15   This is great.

00:15:16   Yeah. Oh, he's, God, he's going to get so mad. The listeners are going to get so mad.

00:15:19   And the sad thing is they're going to blame you even though this is really my fault.

00:15:21   No, I mean, they can blame me. Blame Film Girl, that's fine. #BlameFilmGirl. No, but

00:15:28   it is interesting. I'm with you guys. Nobody really knows how the step things are updated.

00:15:33   It was interesting to me, Marco,

00:15:34   you were talking about how you had to

00:15:36   get your green circle.

00:15:37   So I've been reviewing the Pebble Time,

00:15:39   the new Pebble smartwatch,

00:15:41   and so I had to take off my Apple watch

00:15:43   for a couple of days,

00:15:45   and the thing I've missed the most, to be totally honest,

00:15:48   has been my green circles.

00:15:50   - That's surprising.

00:15:51   Are you using it with an iPhone or Android?

00:15:53   - iPhone.

00:15:54   - Are you allowed to say, like, how is it,

00:15:56   or do you wanna save it for your show?

00:15:57   - No, no, no, no, no, I can't.

00:15:58   I mean, my review went live today, that's fine.

00:16:01   I like it. It's an interesting product because I feel like they had a real head start for

00:16:08   a long time, but obviously the market has changed. Is it as nice as an Apple Watch?

00:16:13   Obviously not. Even looking at it, it looks like a sports watch. Having said that, I spent

00:16:19   almost $800 with tax and everything on my Apple Watch. Because I spent that much money

00:16:23   on the stainless steel with the classic leather buckle, I don't really feel comfortable running

00:16:28   or working out with it if I'm being completely honest.

00:16:30   I just, I mean, that's just too much money for me to have my wrist to want to get scratched

00:16:34   up.

00:16:35   Maybe other people feel differently, but for me, it doesn't exactly feel like a great

00:16:38   sports device for me.

00:16:40   Whereas the Pebble is 200 bucks, you know, it's plastic and has an e-paper display

00:16:46   and is waterproof and has a really good battery life.

00:16:50   And so that's the sort of thing, like if I was going out running or working out or

00:16:53   whatever, I'd be like, "Hey, if something happens to this, no big deal."

00:16:57   I mean it basically has taken everything that was good about the Pebble and they've improved

00:17:00   upon it.

00:17:01   The problem is that for $200, like I gave it, we have this thing, Mashable Choice, which

00:17:05   is like a good housekeeping seal of approval or whatever.

00:17:08   And I gave it the Mashable Choice and that doesn't mean that I think it's better than

00:17:11   the Apple Watch because that's not what this means.

00:17:13   It just means would you recommend this to someone.

00:17:15   And under the right circumstances I totally would.

00:17:17   I mean it's a $200 watch that does a really good job doing what it does and it actually

00:17:23   works fairly well with iOS, although it works better with Android.

00:17:27   But the hard thing is when I say, "Would you buy this over the Apple Watch?" or "Would

00:17:32   you say don't buy the Apple Watch?"

00:17:34   Even though my Apple Watch was almost four times the cost, it's hard for me to kind

00:17:38   of compare them because they are different devices.

00:17:41   I feel like at a $350 watch versus $200, I'd still give the edge to the Apple Watch and

00:17:46   that's going to be a different experience and obviously have a different ecosystem.

00:17:50   But for the current product, if you're somebody who doesn't care about the looks and you're

00:17:55   not as invested in the Apple ecosystem, I think it's certainly a ton better than Android

00:18:00   Wear, like light years ahead of Android Wear, even though it's not as flashy or shiny.

00:18:05   And it does a lot of the same things that you can do now on an Apple Watch.

00:18:09   Now will that change once WWDC rolls around and kind of next wave of apps and things like

00:18:15   that happen?

00:18:16   That could change the conversation.

00:18:18   And I certainly worry about the company's longevity going forward.

00:18:22   But it's not a bad product, and especially for a sports watch,

00:18:25   which is why I backed it on Kickstarter.

00:18:27   A, I like to back the little guys.

00:18:29   B, this is gonna be something that I use

00:18:32   when I ride my bike or I go running,

00:18:34   and I don't wanna scratch up the chrome

00:18:37   on the stainless steel Apple Watch.

00:18:40   - See, I think that's an interesting point

00:18:42   to go into a little bit.

00:18:44   Is there kind of a problem

00:18:45   that Apple made the steel watch too nice?

00:18:47   - Yeah. - To me, I decided,

00:18:49   because I have the same one as you, except for 42,

00:18:51   you have 38, right?

00:18:52   - Yes.

00:18:53   - But yeah, so I have the stainless steel 42

00:18:54   with the classic buckle and I love it.

00:18:56   You don't have the modern buckle yet, do you?

00:18:58   - No, because they're not shipping

00:19:00   and that was why I had to cancel my modern buckle order.

00:19:03   Well, I didn't cancel it.

00:19:04   I placed the second order

00:19:06   and then canceled my modern buckle order

00:19:07   after I got my second order.

00:19:10   - Yeah, Tiff's modern buckle is scheduled,

00:19:11   the whole modern buckle watch is scheduled to be here

00:19:13   June 4th through 11th.

00:19:14   I haven't heard of any times earlier than that

00:19:16   for that model.

00:19:17   - No, that's literally, I didn't even have any date.

00:19:19   I just saw it in June, and I had so much,

00:19:22   I had serious like FOMO,

00:19:23   that's fear of missing out for the audience.

00:19:25   I had such serious FOMO about not having the Apple Watch

00:19:29   that I placed, it was like eight days after

00:19:32   it had started shipping, and I placed the second order,

00:19:34   and I placed the order on a Saturday,

00:19:36   and I got my watch on a Tuesday.

00:19:37   - That's insane. - It was.

00:19:39   And I was like, okay, you know what, worth it.

00:19:41   Because those 11 days without that Apple Watch, you guys.

00:19:45   I was like, I mean, it was bad.

00:19:47   - Yeah, 'cause you live on the internet.

00:19:48   I mean, come on. - I do, exactly.

00:19:50   It's like for me, of all people,

00:19:51   my nickname is C-Mac for Christ's sake.

00:19:53   Like, for me not to have the latest Apple product,

00:19:56   I really did, it was terrible.

00:19:58   So June 4th through 11th, is that what they said?

00:20:00   - Yeah, yeah, for a TIFFs, yeah.

00:20:01   - Cool, so yeah, I mean, she'll be one of the first people

00:20:04   that I've seen that has it.

00:20:05   You can't even order it by itself right now.

00:20:06   It still says unavailable.

00:20:08   But I will get the modern buckle

00:20:09   as soon as it ships separately.

00:20:11   I'll spend the 250 and get the pink band, but yeah.

00:20:15   - Our first sponsor this evening is our friends,

00:20:18   Once again, @fracture.

00:20:20   Fracture prints your photos in vivid color

00:20:23   directly on glass.

00:20:24   Go to fractureme.com for more information.

00:20:28   And don't forget to use code ATP15 for 15%

00:20:31   off your first order.

00:20:33   So, fracture prints are great.

00:20:35   We have them sponsor a lot.

00:20:37   So you've probably heard me say this over and over again,

00:20:39   but I'm gonna tell you again

00:20:40   because they are just that great.

00:20:42   They really, my office is full of fracture prints.

00:20:45   We keep getting more fracture prints.

00:20:47   people come over, they compliment the fracture prints.

00:20:50   Everyone loves these things, so here's what it is.

00:20:52   It is a printed photo on a piece of glass

00:20:55   that you can then hang directly on a wall

00:20:57   or stand up on a desk.

00:20:59   And it comes with everything you need right in the box.

00:21:01   It comes with the little screw to mount in the wall,

00:21:03   or you can, like I just use those little triangle hook

00:21:06   things that you get in hardware stores.

00:21:08   I just use those to hang them up,

00:21:09   'cause they're a little bit shallower and make a small hole.

00:21:12   And these things are nice and lightweight,

00:21:14   so you don't need like some giant anchor

00:21:16   hold it in the wall like you do a big picture or a big piece of art. It's nice and lightweight

00:21:20   because it's a nice thin piece of glass and they print the photo right on the glass and

00:21:26   it's printed on the backside and it shines through so it looks like it's on the surface

00:21:29   but it has this nice glossy finish on it and it is, I can't tell you how good these things

00:21:34   look. It's almost like having a screen on the wall that's just always looking perfect.

00:21:40   It looks so good and everybody compliments these things when they come over to my house.

00:21:45   sees these and they're, "Oh, is that the fracture?"

00:21:46   Or if they don't know this, "Oh, what's that?"

00:21:48   They are great.

00:21:50   People are always very impressed.

00:21:51   And they make great gifts.

00:21:53   If you wanna send a gift to somebody,

00:21:54   if you wanna get a photo printed for your family

00:21:56   or whoever and send it to them.

00:21:57   - Father's Day is coming up.

00:21:59   - Yeah, Father's Day is coming up.

00:22:00   You can get a photo printed of or for your father

00:22:03   or grandfather, send it to them, whatever.

00:22:05   These are so great.

00:22:06   They make such great gifts.

00:22:07   They make such great decorations in your house.

00:22:09   And they are extremely, extremely affordably priced.

00:22:12   So prices start at just 15 bucks for a five inch

00:22:15   by five inch square.

00:22:16   They have all sorts of squares,

00:22:18   they have all sorts of rectangles.

00:22:20   The prices are so reasonable.

00:22:22   I think, I forget what I paid for my big ones,

00:22:24   I think it was like 30 bucks.

00:22:25   I mean, they're so affordable.

00:22:28   And they're so good.

00:22:28   I even, I bought some, even when we didn't even have

00:22:31   an active coupon code, I bought some at full price myself,

00:22:33   just 'cause they're just that good.

00:22:35   But you don't have to do that.

00:22:36   You can use coupon code ATP15 to get 15%

00:22:39   off your first order.

00:22:41   I really cannot say enough good things about fracture prints.

00:22:44   I would say compared to a custom frame job,

00:22:47   I have some custom frame things in my office too,

00:22:50   and custom framing is very expensive,

00:22:52   the result is very big and heavy,

00:22:54   and it kinda looks a little bit dated sometimes.

00:22:57   It can be done well, but it kinda looks a little bit dated.

00:22:58   Fracture prints are way more affordable,

00:23:02   and they look a lot better for the most part,

00:23:05   and they're just so clean and modern,

00:23:07   and you don't need to frame them.

00:23:09   They serve their own self-enclosed purpose.

00:23:11   They are just so good.

00:23:12   I cannot say enough good things about Fracture.

00:23:14   Go to fractureme.com, use coupon code ATP15

00:23:18   for 15% off your first order.

00:23:20   Thank you very much to Fracture

00:23:21   for sponsoring our show once again.

00:23:24   - Yep, Fractures are really, really wonderful.

00:23:26   The comments you made about it

00:23:28   looking like a screen on the wall,

00:23:29   had I not seen and actually owned a handful of Fractures,

00:23:32   I would have thought you were crazy, but no, really.

00:23:34   It really does look kinda like that.

00:23:36   It's really fantastic, so definitely check it out.

00:23:39   Big news today, and I mean that non-sarcastically, well, I think I mean that non-sarcastically.

00:23:46   The native Apple Watch SDK, which we all knew was coming eventually, apparently is coming

00:23:50   like soon, like apparently WWDC time.

00:23:54   So I think, Marco, you're probably most well-equipped to kind of kick this off.

00:23:59   How does that make you feel?

00:24:00   What do you think about that?

00:24:01   Does that change anything?

00:24:03   Did you cry happy tears?

00:24:04   What's going on?

00:24:05   - So I'm really happy about it, first of all.

00:24:07   I mean, whether or not I want to use it immediately is a different story.

00:24:11   We'll see when it comes out.

00:24:12   But I'm extremely happy and pleasantly surprised.

00:24:15   I was assuming, and I've said this a number of times, I've been assuming that it would

00:24:19   come in November and that we would be able to run the apps we create with it maybe next

00:24:25   spring with the launch of Watch 2 or whatever.

00:24:28   And so this is a good few months earlier than what I was expecting.

00:24:33   And that's, I'm just happy.

00:24:35   I'm happy.

00:24:36   anything about it yet. All we know is that today on, I think it was on stage, right?

00:24:41   At the...

00:24:42   - Yeah, it was at the code conference.

00:24:43   - Yes, so it was Jeff Williams, right?

00:24:46   - It was.

00:24:47   - Yeah, so Jeff Williams, the current Apple COO, was giving an interview and he said that

00:24:53   there would be a native SDK at WBC this year, so being announced in what, 10 days, two weeks,

00:24:59   whatever? So really soon. So this is, I mean, this is potentially really great. There are

00:25:05   There are so many questions.

00:25:07   I'm writing a blog post, I'm still drafting it,

00:25:10   of my giant list of questions about things

00:25:12   I'm curious about with the SDK.

00:25:15   Just some of the simple things like,

00:25:17   how much storage space do apps have to use?

00:25:19   Stuff like that, but if you actually think about

00:25:22   the reality of having native code access on the watch,

00:25:25   there really are quite a lot of questions

00:25:27   that come up as a result of that.

00:25:31   Just simple things like, okay, you have the app on the watch,

00:25:33   you have the app on the phone.

00:25:35   How do they communicate?

00:25:36   Can they share data?

00:25:37   Can they sync?

00:25:38   What happens when the watch is away from the phone and then it comes back?

00:25:41   Does it then have to sync the data manually?

00:25:43   There are so many little gotchas like that.

00:25:46   What kind of restrictions will there be on backgrounding?

00:25:47   As we know from the iPhone, backgrounding and multiprocessing and background network

00:25:54   fetches, background refresh, all these things that we take for granted now on the iPhone,

00:25:59   I'm betting we get almost none of that on the watch.

00:26:01   Yeah, I mean for battery alone I would think that that would kind of put the kibosh on

00:26:06   a lot of that.

00:26:08   What I think would be interesting, and we'll obviously have to wait another ten days to

00:26:11   see, going back to the Pebble a little bit, one of the interesting things that they've

00:26:15   done with their model, and their code execution model is very, very different and much more

00:26:20   limited than it is on the iPhone, but they have a thing where you can basically have

00:26:24   your JavaScript apps fully executed on the watch.

00:26:26   So there's some apps like the Swarm app that live there, and then there's some apps

00:26:31   apps that actually talk to a companion app on your phone, which is similar to what the

00:26:35   Apple Watch does now.

00:26:37   So I think it'll be interesting to see if they – because Pebble has had to deal with

00:26:40   some of those same constraints, granted at a much lower scale and with much higher memory

00:26:46   constraints.

00:26:47   But I think it'll be interesting to see how Apple's philosophy differs from what

00:26:50   other people have done, from what other platforms have done, and maybe what they've learned

00:26:54   from how those things have worked or haven't worked.

00:26:56   Exactly.

00:26:57   Because, I mean, this is why there – this is such an interesting question to start asking.

00:27:01   what will this be?

00:27:02   And we'll know in two weeks, at least we'll know a lot of it

00:27:06   but there's also, there's gonna be a, I think,

00:27:09   a political policy angle here, which is like,

00:27:14   every time Apple releases a new platform

00:27:17   or enables new, major new functionality,

00:27:20   it gives them an opportunity to enforce and shape

00:27:25   things to fit their political goals.

00:27:27   So for example, maybe watch apps will be required

00:27:31   be written in Swift for no technical reason,

00:27:33   just as a requirement to promote Swift adoption.

00:27:36   Maybe they'll, maybe certain things, you know,

00:27:38   I guarantee you that certain things that are allowed today

00:27:42   in iPhone apps won't be allowed in watch apps.

00:27:44   And we don't know what those things are yet,

00:27:46   but I'm sure there's a list, right?

00:27:48   And so, like, it's going to be interesting.

00:27:50   It's going to be possibly a little bit bumpy

00:27:54   on the, you know, as we get this going,

00:27:56   but I think it's gonna be really interesting,

00:27:58   and I'm just really curious to see,

00:28:00   I mean just basic stuff like the iPhone has,

00:28:03   like there's so much API available on the iPhone.

00:28:06   Like there are so many libraries and functions

00:28:09   and interface widgets.

00:28:11   I mean do we think it even runs UIKit?

00:28:14   I'm guessing it has its own simplified thing.

00:28:16   You know all we know is what WatchKit gives us

00:28:18   but WatchKit is really this like kind of,

00:28:20   I'm guessing WatchKit in a little like separate sandbox

00:28:24   it gives us to play in.

00:28:25   I'm guessing that has very little to do

00:28:27   with the native API.

00:28:30   - Yeah.

00:28:31   - Yeah, one of the things I've been thinking about,

00:28:33   which I think is a kind of ridiculous idea,

00:28:36   but an interesting thought exercise if nothing else is,

00:28:39   what if Apple by way of app review,

00:28:42   and you kind of touched on this Marco

00:28:43   with your political stuff earlier,

00:28:46   what if Apple by way of app review basically says,

00:28:49   well, you don't really need to go native for this,

00:28:53   so we're gonna reject this,

00:28:54   back to the WatchKit APIs that you have today.

00:28:58   And so for things like Overcast, which this is probably a crummy example, but Overcast

00:29:03   may not absolutely need a native API.

00:29:07   So you know what?

00:29:09   Battery life is important to us.

00:29:10   Marco, I'm sorry, you're just going to have to stick to the remote view controller, whatever

00:29:14   it is, that you have today.

00:29:16   We're not going to allow you to use the native APIs because we just don't think you're worthy.

00:29:21   I doubt they'd do that, but it's certainly something

00:29:24   that they could do if they so desired.

00:29:27   - Oh, totally.

00:29:28   I mean, and like, I don't, right now, you know,

00:29:30   all I know, all we know is that they said

00:29:32   there's gonna be a native SDK,

00:29:34   and he mentioned that like games would be possible

00:29:36   and sensor access would be possible, so that's great.

00:29:39   But my app requires continuous audio playback

00:29:42   even when it is not showing on screen.

00:29:45   On the iPhones, that's allowed.

00:29:47   Will it be allowed on the watch?

00:29:48   We don't know.

00:29:49   I don't even know, like, will it even have

00:29:52   AV Foundation and Core Audio?

00:29:54   Will the watch expose APIs that can play sound

00:29:57   to the third-party SDK?

00:30:00   And we have absolutely no idea.

00:30:01   So it's like, there's so many big questions here, right?

00:30:05   Like so many big questions, and we won't know,

00:30:08   really, until next week.

00:30:10   We have no idea.

00:30:12   - Yeah, I'm really curious to see where this goes.

00:30:14   And I'm wondering how much they allow.

00:30:17   So, as an example, let's suppose that there is no mechanism, Marco, that you can see wherein

00:30:24   you could actually put podcasts onto the watch and play them directly off the watch.

00:30:29   So you're limited to the same kind of situation you have today where the phone is the thing

00:30:33   actually doing playback.

00:30:35   Do you think, just sitting here now not really knowing anything, do you suspect that you

00:30:39   would still reach for a native API and SDK just on account of speed?

00:30:45   or was it actually not that interesting to you

00:30:46   if you can't get files onto the device?

00:30:50   - It is certainly interesting either way

00:30:52   because no matter what, I'm sure a native app

00:30:55   would be faster to launch, more responsive.

00:30:58   I could, like there are even just a lot of like

00:31:00   little annoying limitations about what you can do

00:31:03   in the UI with WatchKit, that it would be nice

00:31:06   to have more control over that and to have more,

00:31:09   you know, just more abilities of things you can do

00:31:13   'cause WatchKit is very limited.

00:31:15   But if I can't actually get the files over there

00:31:18   and play them without a phone present,

00:31:20   which is what most people are asking me for,

00:31:21   'cause like, you know-- - Exactly.

00:31:23   That's what they want, 'cause you can put music on the,

00:31:26   you can put certain data on the watch, obviously,

00:31:29   and they wanna be able to say,

00:31:29   hey, I wanna be able to listen to my podcast

00:31:31   and use Overcast so I can have my smart speed settings

00:31:35   to go through it or whatever.

00:31:37   - Exactly, I mean, and we know from the process

00:31:40   putting the music onto it that it kind of sucks.

00:31:43   Like it's kind of slow and clunky and manual.

00:31:46   And so right now I have no knowledge of whether or not

00:31:51   it is, whether or not an overcast native app on the watch

00:31:54   will be possible, like technically possible,

00:31:57   whether it will be allowed,

00:31:59   and whether it will suck or not.

00:32:01   I have no information on any of those things.

00:32:03   So I can't say right now whether I'm gonna make an app.

00:32:07   And then of course secondarily,

00:32:09   there's a question of whether it's worth it.

00:32:12   'Cause there's gonna be a lot of complexity.

00:32:13   What I'm really curious about is just the realities

00:32:17   of syncing data between the two apps,

00:32:20   like between the watch app and the phone app.

00:32:22   We'll see in reality what that entails,

00:32:26   but that's a big question mark.

00:32:28   - No, that's a really good point

00:32:29   because that's gonna be slow already over Bluetooth

00:32:33   and obviously like how, what's your latency on that

00:32:36   and how long does it look for for a device

00:32:39   you know, so that it can keep things in sync.

00:32:42   Like how often does it, does it pull for that sort of thing?

00:32:45   Yeah, you're right.

00:32:46   But I think that, do you think it's possible

00:32:49   that maybe we could see kind of a world of hybrid apps

00:32:52   where you have parts of it that are the companion apps,

00:32:55   the glances, the sorts of things we have now,

00:32:57   but there are other parts that are natively existing

00:33:00   on the watch itself so that you can do things

00:33:02   like load faster and pull in maybe custom UI beds

00:33:06   or load in other sorts of code and execute natively

00:33:09   on the watch while still maybe the data that it's using

00:33:14   is still being pulled from the phone app itself?

00:33:17   - That's a good question.

00:33:17   I mean, yeah, we don't know yet.

00:33:19   I mean, there's part of your question which is like,

00:33:22   can part of your watch presence be WatchKit

00:33:27   and can part of it be native?

00:33:29   And I'm guessing the answer to that is no,

00:33:31   but just for simplicity's sake in the loaders and stuff,

00:33:35   but I don't know that.

00:33:36   I'm also curious though, you know, you mentioned glances.

00:33:38   Like, right now glances are very limited

00:33:41   in third party apps because we can't have

00:33:42   any controls on them.

00:33:43   The entire glance just acts as one giant button

00:33:45   to launch the app.

00:33:46   I would greatly benefit from a glance

00:33:50   that could have buttons on it.

00:33:52   Right now my glance is moderately useful,

00:33:56   but it would be a lot more useful

00:33:58   if I could have like seek and pause buttons on it

00:34:00   the way that the built in Now Playing glance does.

00:34:02   That would be extremely helpful to me.

00:34:04   and right now, I can't do that.

00:34:06   So that's worth noting.

00:34:08   I'm also curious about whether we'll have access

00:34:11   to third-party complications.

00:34:14   So complications on the watch faces.

00:34:16   That would be extremely interesting

00:34:20   and very, very compelling to me.

00:34:22   I might even try making different kinds of apps

00:34:26   that aren't overcast, 'cause there's not really much reason

00:34:28   to have overcast in a complication

00:34:30   except maybe to have play controls,

00:34:32   but that seems, I don't think that would be possible or good.

00:34:35   - No, and I think on the 38, I mean on the 42,

00:34:38   it might look okay, but on the 38 millimeter screen

00:34:40   especially, it's gonna be like, no, don't even bother.

00:34:43   - Exactly, so I'm not expecting that,

00:34:45   but if we can have third-party complications

00:34:48   for other kinds of apps, like I would love Weatherline,

00:34:52   my favorite weather app, I would love Weatherline

00:34:53   to be able to have, to be a complication

00:34:55   and have like a little line like on the bottom,

00:34:57   that bottom skinny slot on the, what is it,

00:35:00   utility face, yeah, the utility face.

00:35:02   I would also, and so if we have like third party

00:35:06   complications for other kinds of apps that aren't overcast,

00:35:08   and then you have buttons and glances

00:35:11   for things like overcast, I think that goes a very long way.

00:35:14   And I really, really hope we get something like that.

00:35:18   And we might not get it in version one.

00:35:19   I don't necessarily expect to, but we'll see.

00:35:22   I really hope we do, and I think that could be huge.

00:35:24   That being said, I'm still overall very excited about

00:35:29   what the native SDK will get us.

00:35:31   I don't know yet if Overcast will be able to have

00:35:34   a native app that is possible and allowed and doesn't suck

00:35:38   in version one of the SDK,

00:35:39   but I'm really glad that there's a chance.

00:35:42   - You know, I was thinking that what if you,

00:35:44   what if I just lived in Overcast,

00:35:47   which actually is kind of true,

00:35:48   but Overcast is my jam that's really the only thing

00:35:51   I listen to on my computer, on my phone,

00:35:53   and potentially on my watch.

00:35:55   I could see a complication for just remaining time

00:35:57   the podcast that's currently playing.

00:36:00   Ooh, that's actually, that's a good idea.

00:36:02   Yeah, I think that would be useful if Overcast is the sort of thing that basically, if I'm

00:36:06   doing anything entertainment-related, I'm using Overcast.

00:36:09   So even something simple like that could be helpful.

00:36:13   And I am one of many that wrote posts about how I think third-party complications would

00:36:18   be a really awesome idea.

00:36:21   And I don't even know where it would go, but just the thought of being able to support

00:36:27   that sort of thing. Sounds really awesome to me. I mean, I had some examples on this

00:36:31   post which we'll put in the show notes. You know, you could have something very simple

00:36:35   from E-Trade showing you how well or poorly your portfolio is doing, or maybe just what

00:36:41   your next itinerary item is from TripIt, or I don't know, what if you had a Tesla, Marco,

00:36:47   and wanted to know your battery status, or whatever the case may be, or what's the next

00:36:51   delivery arriving at your house, which for most of us is an Apple Watch in three months.

00:36:56   You know, all sorts of different things.

00:36:58   Sports scores.

00:36:59   Any one of these things could be a reasonably good complication.

00:37:02   And yeah, Marco, I don't know if there's any terribly awesome ideas for Overcast, but

00:37:07   I could see all sorts of really nifty things you could do with complications.

00:37:10   And I'm skeptical that'll be part of the API for now, but I do think that it would

00:37:16   be really awesome if they existed.

00:37:18   Christina, do you have any thoughts on that?

00:37:20   Yeah, I mean, I think I would love to see more complications.

00:37:23   I think that would be great, especially if Apple can kind of enforce their own UI guidelines.

00:37:27   I think that would be tremendous.

00:37:28   And really, to me, I think that would be much better than allowing people to submit their

00:37:32   own app bases because that's just going to become a sh*t show the way that third-party

00:37:38   keyboards have kind of become a UI sh*t show.

00:37:41   So I feel like keep it clean, but having complications would be really great.

00:37:45   But just on the fact that there is going to be this preview of an SDK, I'm just excited

00:37:50   about that, like you Marco, mostly because as an end user, I feel like this is the first

00:37:54   time we'll really get a chance to see what people can do with this device.

00:37:58   Because we've been kind of hampered a little bit by it just being kind of the companion

00:38:04   app aspect, the fact that you're having to go through the phone.

00:38:07   And I'm really looking forward to, even if it's not a ton of power, even if it's

00:38:11   not everything, the fact that developers will be able to build things and execute directly

00:38:16   on the watch.

00:38:17   Because I've said this before, I feel like whether the Apple Watch ultimately ends up

00:38:22   being a success or a failure is going to live and die based on what apps are out for it.

00:38:26   I think the app experience is going to be key and we haven't at least, I enjoy some

00:38:31   of the apps on the Apple Watch and I really like my Apple Watch, but I haven't had, other

00:38:35   than maybe mapping stuff, I haven't had that kind of killer app yet.

00:38:39   And I feel like this will be the thing that will help push that sort of thing forward.

00:38:42   Oh definitely.

00:38:44   Right now, it feels like the watch is a really good watch with fun stuff on the face, the

00:38:51   complications that it has.

00:38:53   It's a really good, nice watch.

00:38:55   I don't view it as an app platform for much use just because the apps on it aren't that

00:39:01   great and I use very few of them as a result.

00:39:04   It's still a great product to me because I like the rest of what it does.

00:39:07   I love just the timekeeping aspect.

00:39:09   I love the faces.

00:39:10   I love the complications.

00:39:11   I love having the weather on my watch.

00:39:13   I love the activity tracking.

00:39:14   having all these easy access to timers and stuff.

00:39:18   I love the features it already has

00:39:19   with no apps installed at all.

00:39:22   But it sure would be nice to see,

00:39:24   does the idea of getting faster, better,

00:39:27   more capable apps, does that affect things?

00:39:31   And it might not.

00:39:33   It might end up that dealing with a watch on your wrist

00:39:38   is so clunky and limited.

00:39:42   it might end up that most people just prefer

00:39:44   to pull their phone out of their pocket

00:39:46   to do any kind of complex app interaction.

00:39:49   But we don't know that yet,

00:39:50   'cause right now, apps on the watch

00:39:51   really haven't had a fair chance,

00:39:53   because WatchKit is so limited and slow.

00:39:55   - Yeah, I agree.

00:39:56   The only thing that I kind of dread

00:39:58   about the pending native apps on the watch is,

00:40:02   you know that we're just gonna get swarmed

00:40:04   with a bunch of crappy games

00:40:05   that nobody really wants to play,

00:40:07   and I'm not looking forward to that.

00:40:09   But everything else sounds really exciting,

00:40:12   I'm really curious to see how it goes.

00:40:14   Now, Jeff Williams did say, if I'm not mistaken,

00:40:17   explicitly that it's a preview that's coming,

00:40:21   what is it, week after next?

00:40:23   When do you think, guys, and I'll start with Christina,

00:40:25   if you were to just have a guess,

00:40:27   when do you think the first native watch apps

00:40:30   from third parties will be available in the store?

00:40:33   - I would say fall.

00:40:35   - Yeah, I think I agree.

00:40:36   I mean, it would follow the iOS beta timeline

00:40:40   if they did that.

00:40:40   - Exactly, and whenever the final Xcode is out,

00:40:44   yeah, I would think that it's probably gonna be

00:40:46   part of iOS 9 and probably whatever the next

00:40:48   watchOS update is, 1.5 or whatever they call it,

00:40:52   will add support for native apps,

00:40:54   but I figure they'll preview it next week

00:40:56   or a week after next, and then they will

00:40:58   have it rolled out in October-ish.

00:41:02   - Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

00:41:04   Maybe that was said, the chat room was saying

00:41:05   maybe they said that, so I missed it if so,

00:41:07   but I think that makes the most sense to me for sure.

00:41:10   Any other thoughts on native watch apps before we move on?

00:41:15   - I do worry about battery life long term.

00:41:18   Like right now the watch battery life is great.

00:41:21   Like well Christina what do you think?

00:41:23   38 is significantly worse.

00:41:25   - Yeah I mean it's been good for me

00:41:27   provided I don't have too many apps installed.

00:41:30   And that was sort of the thing that I had to get used to.

00:41:32   It was like just install the ones I like and that I use.

00:41:35   So I have Overcast, I have Twittorific, and I have Uber,

00:41:37   and there are a couple of others that I have.

00:41:39   have a ton of glances installed, just the ones that I really use, you know, 1Password

00:41:43   and a couple of other things. But no, I've actually been really impressed with battery

00:41:48   life. But this is, I feel like it could go both ways. Like on the one hand, it could

00:41:53   immediately tax the battery more. On the other hand, it's possible that it might be more

00:41:57   efficient potentially. I don't know if it doesn't have to pull and send stuff back and

00:42:02   forth over Bluetooth all the time. I don't know.

00:42:04   That's a good point. I hadn't thought about that. But yeah, I guess it depends a lot on

00:42:08   whether apps will be able to do things like background refresh, which I'm guessing the

00:42:12   answer is no, but that will have a lot to do with it, I'm sure.

00:42:15   Yeah, I'm very curious to see what the limits are on that, because background processing

00:42:20   on the iPhone, if you're doing kind of traditional stuff, that's still limited to ten minutes,

00:42:24   is that correct?

00:42:26   On the iPhone, it's even shorter than that now. They change it, they threaten to change

00:42:31   it at, I think in iOS 7, they threaten to make it so that you could get little time

00:42:37   slices but they wouldn't be contiguous. That caused so many bugs during the betas of, I

00:42:41   think it was either seven or eight, it caused so many bugs and was such a pain that they

00:42:45   gave you back your contiguous block but now instead of ten minutes, I think it's like

00:42:48   four minutes or two, that time keeps going down. And so I'm guessing like, on the watch,

00:42:56   you're not going to be running for ten minutes in the background. There's just no chance.

00:42:59   Well, right, that's what I was striving at is I wonder if the limit is 30 seconds or

00:43:04   maybe even 15 seconds, whatever it may be. I'm very curious to see what they do to kind

00:43:10   of handcuff developers and prevent them from doing stupid stuff. Really quickly before

00:43:15   we talk about another thing that's awesome, I wanted to ask you guys, I am not really

00:43:19   into glances like I think a lot of other people are. And, Christina, you made mention of this

00:43:23   a second ago. I'm looking at my watch right now and I have the, I think it's a settings

00:43:27   glance where you can do like airplane mode and all that. I have the battery glance, which

00:43:32   I'm trying to convince myself to remove because I've not yet once hit power reserve,

00:43:37   but I don't know, it still kind of weirds me out that I don't know of any other way to easily look at the battery

00:43:42   without adding a complication.

00:43:44   Like I wish it was in settings or something, so if I really, really wanted to know I could figure it out

00:43:49   without having to add the glance, but anyway.

00:43:51   I have TripIt, which I am only keeping on there for the next few weeks because I'm doing a bit of traveling like WWDC.

00:43:58   I have Dark Sky, I have the heart rate in case I want to try to convince it that I'm exercising even when I'm not,

00:44:04   and I have the WDC--

00:44:07   What does that mean?

00:44:08   Well, like, if I feel like I've run up and down stairs 15 times and my heart is pumping,

00:44:12   then I can flip over to the heart rate glance and it'll measure my heart rate,

00:44:15   or I can tell it to measure my heart rate, maybe I'll get a minute of credit.

00:44:18   And then my final glance, which was added earlier today, was the WWDC app,

00:44:22   but that's it, that's all I have. So let me start again with Christina.

00:44:26   What do you have on there?

00:44:27   You kind of quickly ran them off,

00:44:29   but it blew right by me before I had a chance

00:44:31   to add it up in my head.

00:44:33   What do you have on there,

00:44:34   and are you looking to add or remove any?

00:44:37   - Yeah, so I try to keep it as minimal as possible.

00:44:40   I got rid of stocks, I got rid of a bunch of them

00:44:42   that I just kind of wasn't really using.

00:44:43   So I have one for the subway from a CityMapper.

00:44:48   I have CityMapper on,

00:44:49   and that's actually a pretty good watch app, I have to say.

00:44:51   They've done a really nice job with it.

00:44:53   So I have CityMapper, the battery, and the heart rate.

00:44:56   I have Overcast.

00:44:59   I have TripIt, but again, that's just mostly for traveling stuff.

00:45:02   I don't have it up all the time.

00:45:04   Oh, I have 1Password.

00:45:05   Oh, I have Authy.

00:45:06   I have Authy, sorry.

00:45:07   Authy, my two-factor authentication thing.

00:45:09   I know 1Password will do that, but Authy is just easier to just have the things that I

00:45:13   have the two-factor for.

00:45:14   Tim Cynova Yeah, I just try to keep mine simple.

00:45:17   I mean, I have the built-in settings now playing,

00:45:21   activity, the battery, which I turned off,

00:45:25   but it somehow got turned back on,

00:45:26   I gotta look into that, and overcast, and that's it.

00:45:29   So the only third-party one I have is overcast.

00:45:31   - Interesting.

00:45:32   - Because to me, the glances are like

00:45:35   OS X Mac dashboard widgets.

00:45:37   - Totally.

00:45:38   - You know, they sit around there not updating themselves

00:45:42   until you go to them, and then they're showing old data,

00:45:45   and then you have to wait for it to spin

00:45:46   and update itself, it's kind of a crappy experience

00:45:49   if you actually want to just glance at something

00:45:52   because it's not loaded yet.

00:45:53   So you have to go, see the old stuff, and wait.

00:45:56   And that's not great.

00:45:58   So I don't really care to have more of those than necessary.

00:46:03   But when you're swiping through,

00:46:06   it's just like a side-by-side card swiping interaction,

00:46:09   and so you can't have a very long list there

00:46:11   without it being a little bit unwieldy to navigate through.

00:46:13   - Right. - Yeah, I agree.

00:46:14   I feel like it was Federico Vittucci, although I may have that wrong, that had said that

00:46:19   he had a bunch of glances, like 10 or 15 glances or something like that.

00:46:23   And whoever it was, maybe it wasn't Federico, I thought to myself, "Really?"

00:46:27   Because I have a fair number of third-party apps on my watch, although I don't use very

00:46:32   many, Overcast being one that I use a lot as an example.

00:46:36   But I personally don't care for most glances.

00:46:40   Not to be corny, but the only time I really want to have a glance is if it's something that I want to just glance

00:46:46   at like TripIt, like what's coming next at WWDC,

00:46:50   like my battery life if I can ever, you know, convince myself to remove it, but

00:46:55   But you know things like that where I'm just gonna look for a second and then I'm gonna move on and then I'm gonna use

00:47:00   an app for something like Overcast where I'm gonna be going in and out of it or you know

00:47:04   maybe I want it up for a while because I'm gonna be fiddling with it a lot and

00:47:07   and glances just don't really cut it for me.

00:47:09   And so I was just curious, and it sounds like

00:47:10   we're all kind of of the same mind in this one.

00:47:12   - Well, and also, for that kind of like quick glancing

00:47:15   and quick launching,

00:47:17   complications are better in every way for those things.

00:47:20   You know, so like, I love having the complications

00:47:24   on the face that let me remove a glance,

00:47:27   and that let me not ever have to go to the home screen,

00:47:30   which I hate, to find the app and do something there.

00:47:34   Like, I love having the complications there.

00:47:36   So, I don't know, I'm curious also to just see

00:47:39   as the watch software gets updated by Apple,

00:47:43   do we get more watch faces?

00:47:45   How often do we get a new watch face?

00:47:48   Do we get new complications from Apple being added?

00:47:51   Or do some of the existing watch faces

00:47:53   that don't have complications, which is a lot of them,

00:47:55   do those gain complications?

00:47:57   - Do they get updated, yeah.

00:47:58   - Yeah, there's so many questions.

00:48:00   - Do we get a Burberry watch face?

00:48:02   (laughing)

00:48:03   - Yeah, I'm just as excited.

00:48:06   because the watch for me is like, you know,

00:48:08   half the value or more is the built-in stuff.

00:48:11   I'm also just excited to see what software updates

00:48:13   bring to the watch from Apple.

00:48:15   - Yeah, I'm curious to see how it goes,

00:48:17   but we should talk about something else that's awesome.

00:48:19   So, Marco, take it away.

00:48:21   - Our second sponsor this week is a long-time sponsor

00:48:25   from a long time ago, they are back.

00:48:27   It is MailRoute, mailroute.net/atp.

00:48:32   You know who you want protecting your email?

00:48:34   Email nerds who do nothing but email.

00:48:36   Mail route, this is their script.

00:48:39   It's right though, I read over this,

00:48:40   and I'm like, yeah, this is all true,

00:48:42   so I'm just gonna say it.

00:48:43   These guys created the first cloud-based

00:48:45   email filtering solution and then sold it to Microsoft.

00:48:47   It was so good.

00:48:48   Now they are back with the most innovative

00:48:50   and effective spam and virus filtering available.

00:48:53   Mail route, imagine a world without spam,

00:48:55   viruses, or bounced email.

00:48:57   Imagine the joy of opening your email

00:48:59   and seeing only the legit mail that you need

00:49:02   with no spam in it.

00:49:03   MailRoute wants you to feel this joy, Casey and everyone else.

00:49:07   There's no hardware or software to install or maintain.

00:49:10   MailRoute simply receives your mail,

00:49:12   sorts it, and delivers it only clean email to your mailbox.

00:49:16   As a desktop user, you'll find MailRoute's user interface

00:49:18   to be simple and effective.

00:49:20   If you're an email admin or IT pro,

00:49:22   they've built all their tools with you in mind.

00:49:25   They even have an easy API for easy account management.

00:49:28   MailRoute's team of email nerds are just

00:49:30   sitting around thinking about ways

00:49:31   to eliminate spam and viruses that you don't have to worry about it with your mail server.

00:49:36   So I actually use mail route and I've been using it for a while now, at least six months

00:49:41   I think, a long time now. And so I very loudly don't use Gmail.

00:49:47   You use Fastmail, right? Yeah, exactly. And I've used Fastmail for

00:49:53   years. And one of the most common things I've heard for years from people who are on Gmail

00:50:00   people who have left Gmail is that Gmail has the best spam filtering and that they can't

00:50:05   or won't leave Gmail and go to something like Fastmail because the spam filtering isn't

00:50:09   as good as Fastmail. I can honestly say, having used Fastmail for years without mail route

00:50:14   first, Fastmail's spam filtering is good but not great. Ever since I put mail route in

00:50:21   front of it, it has been great. It has been so good, almost perfect. I have almost no

00:50:26   false positives and almost no spam gets through. It is so incredibly good. For a long time

00:50:32   I just thought like, you know, everyone's probably just running SpamAssassin, you know,

00:50:36   what could they possibly be doing that's different? And I don't know what they're doing, but it

00:50:39   is different and it is better and it just works. And they have a great feature too where

00:50:46   they will email you if you want, they'll email you a quarantine notification. Every so often

00:50:51   they'll email you saying, "These messages are in your quarantine box." Which you don't

00:50:54   see in your mailbox, you can go to their site to see it if you want to. And this is like

00:50:58   messages that they think are probably spam, but they're not quite sure about it. So they'll

00:51:02   give you this list, and then you can, next to each one, there's just a little link that

00:51:06   you can tap from any email client, phone, desktop, whatever, just a little link. So

00:51:09   it'll list these messages that are in here and a little link that says, "Redeliver, whitelist,"

00:51:13   whatever. Or you can, and if you ignore it, they just get deleted automatically after

00:51:16   a certain number of days. So it's great. So I've had a couple of things that were caught

00:51:20   in there that I just hit, I hit whitelist on them once,

00:51:23   and it was never a problem again.

00:51:25   MailRoute makes FastMail a way better web host.

00:51:29   Like if you get FastMail and put MailRoute in front of it,

00:51:32   I think you get the best of everything.

00:51:33   I think you get a nice standalone email service

00:51:36   that is not owned by Google or anybody else,

00:51:39   that is a standard IMAP server, and you're paying for it,

00:51:42   you're not being spied on, they're not looking

00:51:44   through your mail for advertising or anything.

00:51:46   and it's a standard, so if Fast Mail starts to suck,

00:51:50   you can go to a different IMAP host,

00:51:52   or you can host your own.

00:51:53   So whatever the case is,

00:51:54   whether you use something like Fast Mail,

00:51:55   whether you host your own server for yourself

00:51:57   or for your business, put MailRoute in front of it.

00:52:00   I cannot possibly tell you enough how good it is.

00:52:04   I use very little myself.

00:52:06   I was skeptical.

00:52:09   When I first heard about them years ago,

00:52:12   I didn't try it at first, 'cause I think,

00:52:13   "You know, I can probably get away

00:52:15   just making my spam filters tighter on FastMail.

00:52:17   And I couldn't, and it is different,

00:52:19   and it is better with it, believe me.

00:52:22   So yeah, I am extremely conservative with this sort of stuff

00:52:25   but I'm telling you, I use this and I now recommend it.

00:52:28   It is really, really good.

00:52:29   So anyway, thank you very much to MailRoute.

00:52:32   Go to mailroute.net/atp, and if you go there,

00:52:35   mailroute.net/atp, you'll not only get a free trial,

00:52:39   but you'll get 10% off for the lifetime of your account.

00:52:43   That's, this is an incredible deal.

00:52:44   That's a great free trial offer.

00:52:46   Free trial and 10% off the lifetime of your account.

00:52:49   Check it out, mailroute.net/atp.

00:52:53   Remove spam from your life for good.

00:52:54   Thanks a lot to MailRoute.

00:52:56   - All right, so other big news in the last week.

00:52:59   On, what was it, Monday, Apple announced

00:53:02   that Johnny Ive is promo-retired?

00:53:06   - Yeah. - Retire-moded.

00:53:09   What do we think about that?

00:53:10   So the quick recap is they've said that Johnny Ive has been promoted to Chief Design Officer,

00:53:19   is that correct?

00:53:20   Yes.

00:53:21   Yeah, a newly created position.

00:53:22   Newly created position.

00:53:23   So he's now on the C-suite and day-to-day managerial duties have been passed off to

00:53:28   two lieutenants.

00:53:30   Right.

00:53:31   And this was all reported by the actor/humongous geek/all-around awesome person Stephen Fry.

00:53:37   slash Johnny Ives BFF who was mentioned I think thrice in the amazing New Yorker profile.

00:53:43   Maybe he was only mentioned twice. I think that the Chris Martin from Coldplay was mentioned

00:53:47   three times. Either way, that was one of the things that I learned reading through that

00:53:51   amazing profile was how many famous friends Johnny Ive has.

00:53:56   Dr. Jon O'Brien Yeah, exactly. So in The Telegraph, which

00:53:59   is a British news publication, Stephen Fry wrote this article about how Johnny has been

00:54:06   promoted to, chief design officer like you said, Christina, his couple of lieutenants are going to

00:54:11   manage the day-to-day stuff, and among other things, at some point or another, they mentioned

00:54:15   that this will allow him more time to travel. So there's a few conflicting thoughts on this,

00:54:23   and Rene Ritchie actually had a tweet, which I don't have in front of me, but really, really,

00:54:28   really well summarized what the different ideas are. I think he said that the analysts were of

00:54:35   the opinion that this was all to dodge having to reveal how much Johnny makes.

00:54:39   And what were the other two things he said to either of you guys remember?

00:54:43   Yeah, I think this was René, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it was like, you know,

00:54:47   analyst, this is too high but he makes, optimist, this is like, you know,

00:54:51   great because it's a promotion or whatever, and then pessimist, he's quitting.

00:54:55   Something like that. Yeah, yeah, something along those lines. We'll find the

00:54:59   tweet and put it in the show notes after the fact. But, you know, those are the three

00:55:03   kind of extreme summaries, extremely brief summaries, but I don't know, Marco, how did

00:55:09   you feel about this? What was your first reaction when you read this news?

00:55:12   Um, a little, first of all, a little intrigued about how they announced this in this article.

00:55:20   Yes, and how they buried it. Can we talk about how they buried this? They did this like early

00:55:26   afternoon on a Monday, on a holiday, so the market is closed, but also, like, all the

00:55:31   the beat reporters are like half drunk because nobody's working.

00:55:36   Do we know about this from experience, Christina?

00:55:38   Yes. I mean, I was one of those people who was like, "I'm not writing this. Whoever's

00:55:41   like got like, you know, the Memorial Day duty, they can hit this post." I was like,

00:55:46   "I'm not stopping my, you know, for this." I was like, "If Apple's going to bury this

00:55:51   like this, I'm certainly not going to stop my festivities to write this news post. Let

00:55:55   someone else do it."

00:55:57   So yeah, it was weird. I think it was interestingly done. Probably well done if I think it was

00:56:05   well done, like as well as it could have been done, you know, better than a press release,

00:56:08   I guess. But you look at this, you read between the lines, when he had that big profile, when

00:56:15   was it, last fall in the New Yorker?

00:56:17   Yeah, but it was like February?

00:56:19   Something like that. That's fall. So, yeah, it's a fine fall here in New York in February.

00:56:26   So whenever that was, that big profile with him, talking about the watch, you really got

00:56:31   the impression that he was severely burning out and severely overworked because he does

00:56:37   way too much. And it was kind of painful to read at times because you could see the writing

00:56:43   on the wall. You could see like, "This guy can't keep doing this. This is unsustainable."

00:56:47   No. No, I mean, just the fact that he's literally overseeing everything that design touches

00:56:53   and having to be involved in all these meetings. I mean, the fact that he's involved just

00:56:56   in the new campus. I mean literally everything, you're right, I mean UI, industrial design,

00:57:02   you know hardware, software, it's too much for any person. No matter how young you are,

00:57:07   no matter how much you want to do things, there's only so much you can do and then also

00:57:12   still he has twin sons and a wife and like you know you got to be a person too, especially

00:57:17   if you've got as much money as Johnny Ive has.

00:57:20   This is probably the only way that Apple could keep him working at all because it was either

00:57:24   this or burnout and quitting.

00:57:26   - Yeah, which would be devastating to the company.

00:57:29   I mean, you know, whether he's built a big enough team

00:57:33   that people could survive without him or not,

00:57:35   just the fact that such a huge figurehead left

00:57:37   and could potentially go someplace else

00:57:38   would be absolutely devastating.

00:57:40   - Exactly, and that's like, you know,

00:57:41   I'm sure this is probably a lot like the Steve situation,

00:57:46   where I'm sure he has built up a great team,

00:57:48   I'm sure there are people that could take over

00:57:50   and that are taking over.

00:57:53   So I'm not worried about Apple's future

00:57:56   with either a reduced Johnny Live capacity

00:57:58   or if he actually does finally leave at some point.

00:58:01   I'm not worried about that future of Apple.

00:58:04   I think it will be, you know,

00:58:07   like when Steve Jobs left and then passed away,

00:58:10   I think it will be different without Johnny,

00:58:14   but I think they'll get along fine.

00:58:16   - Yeah. - You know,

00:58:17   it won't be the same, there'll be new people,

00:58:19   there might be some shakeups here and there,

00:58:20   but it'll be, they'll be okay.

00:58:23   You know, I hope we get him as long as we can

00:58:27   because he seems really good at his job.

00:58:29   But when he has to leave the company at some point,

00:58:33   I'm not worried for the company's future.

00:58:36   - No, I'm not either, but I feel like as long as they can,

00:58:38   you know, as much time as they can hold out as possible,

00:58:41   I think is better for everyone,

00:58:42   and for no other reason than for perception.

00:58:46   Because like you said, I mean,

00:58:47   I think the company will be fine, it'll be different,

00:58:49   it'll be fine. I think that they've gone through enough transitions now where they

00:58:53   know how not to do what happened in '85 or '86. They know how to manage things.

00:59:01   But I also think, to a certain degree, I almost wonder how much we should read in directly

00:59:07   to what they're saying he's going to be doing. Handing off day-to-day managerial duties,

00:59:10   I think that's actually probably a good thing for someone in his position. Let him

00:59:14   have the kind of the final say and be the creative infusion of the company. Let him

00:59:20   kind of be the muse. But let other people deal with the day-to-day bullcrap because

00:59:26   honestly, at his position, I don't know how much of that stuff he should be really

00:59:31   responsible for, how much of a micromanager he really needs to be, and how much it should

00:59:36   just kind of come from his core vision of saying, "This is where we want to go. These

00:59:39   these are our goals, these are the lines, these are our values. And if there are certain

00:59:44   projects he wants to be really involved in, then help design that. But trust the people

00:59:49   that he's hired and that he's mentored to do their jobs.

00:59:52   Yeah, I think you're right. This does overall feel like he's going from a position of having

01:00:01   a lot of work and way too much of it to a position of having less direct involvement.

01:00:08   For somebody like Johnny Ivey, if anybody has ever worked

01:00:11   with an artist before, a creative artist,

01:00:15   it is very hard for creative artists

01:00:18   to be managing people all day

01:00:21   and to be working in the same place

01:00:24   for a very, very long time.

01:00:26   That's a very hard thing for most creative people

01:00:28   that I've ever known to do.

01:00:30   And so if he's going to keep working there,

01:00:34   I think he needs both less of the kind of work

01:00:38   he doesn't care that much about, like managing things,

01:00:41   and also, does he really need to be that involved

01:00:46   in making the next 15-inch MacBook Pro?

01:00:48   - Right. (laughs)

01:00:50   - Making the next iMac, does he care that much?

01:00:53   Probably not.

01:00:54   Do you really need Johnny Ives' genius

01:00:57   to say make the next airport extreme thinner?

01:01:01   (laughs)

01:01:04   there's a lot of things that Apple does that are probably not interesting to him anymore.

01:01:08   And that's fine. He's been there a very long time making a bunch of silver-thin things.

01:01:13   And he can do other things.

01:01:15   He can do other things. Well, it's also, I think, one of those things where he can do

01:01:18   maybe the big iterations. So maybe he's really involved with the design of the MacBook, or

01:01:23   the MacBook One as you call it. Or maybe what they did with the thin, I guess what is it,

01:01:29   the 2013 iMac, where they made it thin and gave it the bump, the hump in the back.

01:01:34   Maybe he's involved in those sorts of decisions, but he's not really, the minor refreshes

01:01:38   he's not as involved in.

01:01:39   So maybe he's setting the tone, but not having to be involved in each particular

01:01:44   thing.

01:01:45   I think you're right.

01:01:46   He's designed a lot of thin metal things or plastic colored things for Apple over

01:01:51   the years.

01:01:52   Also, if they really are going to get into cars, if they're going to get into auto,

01:01:56   a completely different, that's going to take, needs some overseeing in a completely

01:02:01   different capacity. So I don't know.

01:02:04   You know, he also might need the distance. Like, he might need to be based in the UK

01:02:11   primarily and then only occasionally traveling to California just to prevent him from involving

01:02:16   himself in too many things. Like, this very much might be like a saving himself from himself

01:02:20   kind of thing where it's like, right now, if you read these profiles of him, he is so

01:02:25   intimately involved in every little detail of everything.

01:02:28   - No, I mean, and that's always the challenge, right?

01:02:31   When you get promoted to something is how much,

01:02:34   whether you succeed or fail, and I've certainly failed

01:02:36   in this respect in my past, I've tried to be better about

01:02:38   in the future, but giving things up and trusting others

01:02:41   to do their job, it's really hard sometimes not to

01:02:45   be able to let go, and I think that the only way

01:02:48   he can really let go is if he's not there.

01:02:50   So being in England, being with his family,

01:02:53   I think probably works better for him.

01:02:55   Although I still imagine that these guys are for years going to be getting phone calls

01:02:59   in the middle of the night from him about some idea about a corner or how some sort

01:03:04   of wedge, some sort of joint is bothering him.

01:03:09   I mean I'm sure that's not going to go away, but yeah I think you're right.

01:03:12   I think that it does make sense, the travel aspect that yeah, probably does need to have

01:03:17   a little bit of distance because if he's a chauffeured car ride away from the office,

01:03:24   makes it really easy to go into the office all the time.

01:03:27   - Yeah, I agree.

01:03:28   - Like he needs that distance to avoid more burnout

01:03:32   and to force him to delegate things like

01:03:36   what is the internal layout of the cable

01:03:38   inside the new Mac with the ghost of the audio port.

01:03:40   Like stuff like that, like he,

01:03:41   I'm sure he's involved in all of that stuff,

01:03:44   external and internal stuff,

01:03:45   plus the kind of tables in the retail stores

01:03:48   and what kind of, you know,

01:03:49   what the corner shape is on the icons.

01:03:50   Like he's, and not to mention,

01:03:52   that he also has recently had the entire software UI

01:03:56   placed on him, which he probably, I mean,

01:04:00   so when Forstall was kicked out,

01:04:03   all of the UI design fell on Johnny as well.

01:04:06   Was it Alan Dye who ended up doing most of that,

01:04:09   or was it the other guy?

01:04:10   No, it wasn't Howarth, it was Alan Dye, right?

01:04:12   Yeah, so a lot of that fell on him,

01:04:15   but that was still under Johnny,

01:04:17   and Johnny was still the one who had to make the final call

01:04:20   on a lot of these things, I'm sure.

01:04:22   That's not a small job.

01:04:23   That's like, this is not only all the little details

01:04:26   of all the hardware and chairs and everything in Apple,

01:04:30   but also the entire UI of all of their software.

01:04:34   Like that's insane.

01:04:37   Honestly, that should never have been placed

01:04:40   in the same person.

01:04:41   And it wasn't before Forstall's Ouster, for good reason.

01:04:45   So I don't know if the idea of putting all this on Johnny

01:04:50   was intended to be temporary until they could build

01:04:52   someone else up into the new forestall,

01:04:55   or whether, actually I don't know if forestall

01:04:58   was in charge of the UI, I should probably

01:04:59   stop assuming that, I think he was in charge of iOS.

01:05:02   - Yeah.

01:05:03   - Regardless, whether Johnny was intended to keep

01:05:07   that long term or not, we don't know,

01:05:09   but that is so clearly so different from the hardware

01:05:13   that it is good that the software design

01:05:17   and hardware design teams are talking to each other

01:05:20   and are involved and are generally near each other.

01:05:23   - They don't need to be the same guy.

01:05:25   - Exactly, exactly.

01:05:26   - I think they need to have a relationship and talk,

01:05:28   but I would actually argue it's probably better

01:05:30   if it's not the same person,

01:05:31   because I think they're very different disciplines.

01:05:33   - Exactly, and I think a lot of the UI missteps

01:05:37   we've seen since iOS 7 are because this UI

01:05:41   needs to be treated differently than hardware,

01:05:43   and in some cases it wasn't.

01:05:45   Basically, I think this change is all for the better.

01:05:48   We'll see in time, but I think overall,

01:05:51   I'm kind of happy, kind of relieved

01:05:55   to see that there are changes in me,

01:05:56   because really, these profiles of Johnny

01:05:58   just made it seem like he was just like

01:06:00   seconds away from burning out and leaving.

01:06:02   - Yeah, I agree.

01:06:03   This makes me wonder a couple of things.

01:06:06   First, does this change how Apple perceives remote work?

01:06:11   I suspect not, and I know that they have establishments.

01:06:15   Didn't they, they had or have a large group in Vancouver,

01:06:18   I believe they had to have a large group in,

01:06:21   was it Pittsburgh, is that right, Marco?

01:06:22   - Yeah, I think the iWork team was there for a while.

01:06:24   There's also, there's groups in,

01:06:26   I think they're forming a group in Seattle now,

01:06:28   there's a big group in Austin doing a bunch of store stuff.

01:06:30   Like there's, they really have a lot of satellite groups,

01:06:34   but usually it's like, you know, it's not like

01:06:37   one team will be split across the country,

01:06:39   like they'll like silo off certain things

01:06:41   that can be easily siloed off like iWork

01:06:44   and have them be in a different spot, stuff like that,

01:06:46   But it's not like the main core of OS X is being worked on by people all over the place,

01:06:52   or anything like that.

01:06:53   It's things that can be easily siloed are.

01:06:56   Right.

01:06:57   And this is me reaching a bit, but I see all these news reports about how San Francisco

01:07:02   has gone from "unaffordable" to "haha" and that combined with Johnny moving eight hours

01:07:09   away granted Johnny is a very unique and special snowflake, and I do not mean that sarcastically,

01:07:14   So he gets a buy where other people wouldn't.

01:07:17   He can go anywhere.

01:07:18   He could be in Antarctica and they would make it work.

01:07:20   Right.

01:07:21   But nevertheless, it makes me wonder, you know, is this going to potentially help open

01:07:26   the door to splitting an individual team across multiple geographic locales?

01:07:31   I don't know.

01:07:32   I don't know.

01:07:33   I know a number, I know a couple of people who work on teams where they are remote and

01:07:36   the rest of their team is in Cupertino.

01:07:38   But most people, I mean, I think that Apple is one of those companies that would prefer

01:07:41   people to work together, especially if you're in the same department.

01:07:44   I would agree with you more if they weren't spending as much as they're spending on their

01:07:47   canoe campus.

01:07:49   It's also important to note that they're in Cupertino, and as expensive as San Francisco

01:07:53   is, you can do okay, you can do well modestly if you're living deeper in the valley and

01:08:00   not in San Francisco proper.

01:08:01   Right, right.

01:08:03   The other thing I wanted to ask, and I don't know if there's really an answer that we're

01:08:09   aware of since Johnny tends to be so private, but do we know what his other interests are?

01:08:13   I didn't know that he was really into timepieces until the Apple Watch press push happened.

01:08:20   And I think it was in that New Yorker piece from February that they said that Johnny's

01:08:25   actually really into cars, specifically British cars.

01:08:27   Yeah, he's really into cars.

01:08:29   But do we know what else he's into?

01:08:30   And the reason I ask this question is, I'm thinking to myself, "Well, what else is there

01:08:34   for him to design?"

01:08:36   At least sitting here now, not as the big dreamer, I can't think of any consumer electronics

01:08:43   except of course the TV, that he might want to design.

01:08:47   So what's left?

01:08:49   I mean, there's the car.

01:08:50   - I mean, he's a big fan of music.

01:08:51   - Is he?

01:08:52   - A lot of his friends are musicians.

01:08:53   You know, Chris Martin, Bono, those guys.

01:08:55   Maybe he designs his own guitar.

01:08:58   - I don't know, I was just curious if there was anything

01:09:00   that we knew that he was, I don't know,

01:09:03   hugely into running just for the sake of discussion,

01:09:05   and now he wants to go moonlight with Nike

01:09:08   and design a running shoe or whatever.

01:09:10   - Yeah, no, shoot.

01:09:11   I mean, that's actually probably an interesting thing

01:09:13   to look at, is to see some of the projects he's done

01:09:16   with his friend Mark Newsome before some of the things

01:09:19   that they've auctioned off and some of their special

01:09:21   collaborations, that's probably an interesting thing

01:09:23   to look at, I don't know.

01:09:25   I mean, I would assume, I know only what I've read

01:09:27   about him, but it's probably the same with,

01:09:29   at least friends of mine who are artists,

01:09:31   is that a lot of times their interest is what they want

01:09:34   to design or things that are challenging.

01:09:36   You know, so it's not so much their own personal interest

01:09:38   as much as it is what's an interesting design problem

01:09:41   solve. Fair enough. Alright, any other thoughts on Johnny? Do you think that his white world

01:09:47   will turn into a gray, rainy world when he moves to the UK? Please email Marko. Alright,

01:09:54   our final sponsor this week is Backblaze. Go to backblaze.com/atp. Backblaze is online

01:10:03   backup, and I cannot tell you enough, this is yet another thing, I got three things today

01:10:07   that I use and love. This is yet another thing that I've used for a long time now and cannot

01:10:12   possibly tell you enough how great they are. Backblaze.com/ATP. So Backblaze, it's online

01:10:18   backup. It's unlimited space. This is, it is exactly how it sounds. There's no gimmick

01:10:24   here. There's no add-ons. It's just unlimited space, unthrottled speed. You can upload things

01:10:30   to it as quickly as you can or as quickly as you choose to. All of that for just five

01:10:35   bucks a month per computer and so for most people that's five bucks a month

01:10:39   and I just I cannot possibly tell you how good this is I have tried other

01:10:43   online backup solutions back please has always worked the best for me we now

01:10:48   have three computers in our house using it I got mine I got my wife's and I got

01:10:52   my Mac mini server all these things backing up to back please we have

01:10:57   between all three of those I think something like five or six terabytes of

01:11:00   data backed up and it's fine I mean PA we pay five bucks a month per computer

01:11:04   and that's it. Their app is great. It runs native on both Windows and Mac. So that means

01:11:12   there's no Java or anything, there's no slow run times or weird heap limits that you hit

01:11:17   or anything like that. It is native code running. It was founded by ex-Apple engineers. They're

01:11:22   actually very good citizens on the Mac as well. They're always updated to the latest

01:11:27   OS. They had the dark mode icon for Yosemite. They had that immediately. I've never had

01:11:34   back blaze break during an OS update.

01:11:36   Like, I've never had it be like,

01:11:37   oh, we're not compatible with this version yet.

01:11:39   No, they're always compatible as soon as it's ready.

01:11:42   It's been great for me.

01:11:43   I cannot possibly tell you how good it is.

01:11:45   But I'm gonna try.

01:11:46   So, they have over 150 petabytes of data backed up total.

01:11:50   They've restored over 10 billion files for their customers.

01:11:52   The backups work, they work well.

01:11:54   And one of the cool things is you can access your data

01:11:57   that you've backed up to back blaze

01:11:59   with their iPhone or Android apps.

01:12:03   or through their website also, if you're on a laptop.

01:12:05   So what you can do is, let's say you're away

01:12:08   from your computer, you can go to their site

01:12:10   or use their iOS or Android apps and download a file

01:12:13   that you have on your computer, if you need it.

01:12:15   You left it at home, whatever, you wanna get an old version.

01:12:18   You can go to Backblaze and download the file.

01:12:20   It's as easy as that.

01:12:22   Many of their restores are just one file for this purpose.

01:12:24   It is really, I've done it myself a few times.

01:12:26   I've been on vacation, forgot a file,

01:12:28   went to go get it, it's great.

01:12:31   The restores are very, very easy.

01:12:33   You just go to the site, initiate the restore, done.

01:12:35   You can download a big zip file if you want to.

01:12:37   If you have a lot of data and you can't download it

01:12:39   reasonably quickly, you can even order a USB hard drive

01:12:42   with everything on it.

01:12:44   It's incredibly simple.

01:12:46   Five bucks a month per computer, unlimited space,

01:12:49   un-throttled speeds.

01:12:50   I can't possibly tell you enough how good it is.

01:12:52   Now, you need online backup.

01:12:55   Regular like Time Machine or clones or anything,

01:12:58   that's good, you should be doing that as well

01:13:00   so it's easy and it's local, but it's not enough.

01:13:03   Online backup protects you from things

01:13:05   that will affect those too.

01:13:07   Things like power surges, fires, floods, theft,

01:13:10   all sorts of conditions, you really could use backblaze.

01:13:14   It's like a final fail safe.

01:13:15   It's just five bucks a month.

01:13:16   I have peace of mind with this.

01:13:18   It is very hard for me to have peace of mind about anything.

01:13:21   I just got the kind of person I am,

01:13:22   but I have peace of mind about my data

01:13:24   because I know that backblaze has my back.

01:13:26   I have backups locally, but if all those fail,

01:13:29   If I really screw up, Backblaze is there.

01:13:31   It's always working in the background for me.

01:13:33   I don't need to remember anything.

01:13:34   I don't need to practice some kind of ritual.

01:13:36   It just works, it's always there.

01:13:38   Highly recommended.

01:13:39   So, go to backblaze.com/atp for unlimited,

01:13:43   unthrottled online backup for just five bucks a month.

01:13:45   And you can get a risk-free, no credit card required trial

01:13:49   at that address, backblaze.com/atp.

01:13:52   Risk-free, no credit card required trial.

01:13:54   Thank you very much to Backblaze, highly recommended.

01:13:57   Great sponsors this week, thanks a lot.

01:13:59   All right, so we got through all the essential news for the week and we're sort of running

01:14:04   out of time. So, Christina, what would you like to talk about today?

01:14:08   Well, we could talk about Taylor Swift because she's always a favorite topic of mine, but

01:14:13   I think that the audience might explode. I would love to hear Marco talking about Taylor

01:14:18   Swift. So you do you. Who?

01:14:20   Shut up, Marco. Don't even. Don't even. I'm not even going to entertain that. I'm not

01:14:24   even going to entertain that. Of course you know who she is. Forbes just named her like

01:14:27   the most powerful woman in business and she is.

01:14:31   I know InfoSec Taylor Swift.

01:14:33   I do too. I'm in a group chat on Twitter with InfoSec Taylor Swift.

01:14:37   Ooh.

01:14:38   Yeah.

01:14:39   Do we know who that is?

01:14:40   Well, we don't.

01:14:41   Well, we don't but...

01:14:42   Right. I was asking the royal we. Do we know who that is? And I'm assuming not.

01:14:48   We know parts about who the person is but we don't have like an identity. Although,

01:14:51   I think that it's out there. I'm not really sure. I mean, there are lots of rumors. It

01:14:56   It is not Neil Rauhouser.

01:14:58   That is not true.

01:15:01   Is it Dan Lyons?

01:15:02   It is not Dan Lyons.

01:15:03   It is not Dan Lyons, who I think apparently, this is a weird segue, his episode of Silicon

01:15:09   Valley airs on Sunday, which I guess is interesting.

01:15:13   Now Marco, I know you've seen basically no movies ever.

01:15:16   That's basically correct, yeah.

01:15:18   Have you managed to see Fight Club though?

01:15:20   Yes.

01:15:21   Okay, alright.

01:15:22   And Casey, obviously you've seen movies.

01:15:24   you're someone plugged into pop culture.

01:15:25   So clearly you've seen Fight Club.

01:15:26   - Well, I'm marginally more plugged into Marco,

01:15:30   but yes, I would say I am marginally more plugged in.

01:15:33   And I have seen Fight Club, although to be honest,

01:15:36   I have not seen it in years.

01:15:38   - Okay, well shame on you,

01:15:40   because it's still an amazing movie.

01:15:42   So shame on you, first of all.

01:15:43   Second of all, today the first issue of the comic book,

01:15:48   which is going to serve as the sequel to Fight Club,

01:15:50   Fight Club 2, the first issue came out.

01:15:52   - There's gonna be a sequel to Fight Club?

01:15:54   - Yeah, Paul and Chuck, the author,

01:15:57   is writing, is debuting as a graphic novel first,

01:15:59   you know, comic book form, monthly issues,

01:16:01   and then it'll be put into a book.

01:16:03   - That's crazy.

01:16:04   - It's very crazy.

01:16:05   So I used Dark Horse as the comic, I guess,

01:16:09   publisher or whatever that's doing it.

01:16:10   So I'm going to have to pick up

01:16:13   an actual physical copy just because,

01:16:15   but I bought the digital copy today

01:16:17   and read it on the train ride home, which was lovely.

01:16:21   But it's kind of cool though to think about,

01:16:23   like I was thinking about how much tech has changed

01:16:26   and how much my life has changed

01:16:27   when I saw Fight Club in the movie theater

01:16:28   when I was 16 and 99, yeah.

01:16:32   And a date with a boy, or he was a man actually.

01:16:38   He was like six years older than me.

01:16:40   - Is that legal?

01:16:41   - Oh goodness.

01:16:43   - In Georgia, yeah.

01:16:44   - This is taking a turn kids.

01:16:45   - No, in Georgia it was, yeah.

01:16:47   In Georgia the age of consent is 16, so yeah we were fine.

01:16:49   - Oh God.

01:16:50   So it's creepy but legal.

01:16:52   Creepy but legal.

01:16:53   He was older than my sister but it was – no, no, here's where it was screwed up.

01:16:57   I told him I was a year older than I was.

01:16:59   He told me he was a year younger than he was.

01:17:01   So we both thought we were like lying but like oh, it's perfect.

01:17:04   It was on and off again, dramatic relationship.

01:17:07   He then broke up with me the final time over voicemail while he owed me $300 because that's

01:17:11   a winner folks.

01:17:12   Yikes.

01:17:13   No, it's fine.

01:17:14   I still fight club in the theater with him though and when I think about like 16-year-old

01:17:18   me versus like 32 year old me, just how much has changed in the world. But the core message

01:17:24   of the film still resonates. It's really interesting. I don't know.

01:17:28   So is there a way to discuss the premise of Fight Club 2 without spoiling Fight Club 1?

01:17:34   Um, yeah. And if not, we can just sound the spoiler horn and people can get over it.

01:17:40   Honestly, I think we just sound the spoiler horn. The movie came out in 1999.

01:17:44   Yeah. Like honestly, like, like, like, like Rosebud

01:17:47   is the name of the sled. Like, I'm sorry. Like, there's certain things, like, whatever.

01:17:51   Well, I think the simple threshold is, if I've seen it, it's safe to spoil.

01:17:56   Right. I agree. I was going to say, if Marco has seen it, it's like—

01:17:58   Well, if both of us have seen it.

01:18:00   Exactly.

01:18:00   I mean, at that point, you have no excuses anymore.

01:18:03   And also, our audience, I got to think, like, this is the sort of audience,

01:18:07   like, you've seen Fight Club. Like, it's one of those movies. But, I mean, the idea is basically

01:18:10   that it's 10 years after the events of Fight Club and, like, what's happened. And it's, like,

01:18:14   basically Tyler comes back, Tyler being the narrator's kind of split personality who's

01:18:19   an anarchist. And I just read the first issue because that's all that's out, but it's

01:18:24   good. It's cool. It's interesting that a sequel is happening and that it's happening

01:18:29   in comic book form and he's also writing the screenplay for Lullaby, I guess, one of

01:18:36   the adaptations for one of his other books and writing the graphic novel really helped

01:18:40   him writing the screenplay, adapting his own work. So, because he came into our office

01:18:46   last week. That's my way of humble bragging about that. And I, of course, fangirled the

01:18:53   frack out. Like, I was such a freaking fangirl, like, I couldn't even stand it. And I was

01:18:57   the only one who asked a fan question, and he seemed almost relieved because everybody

01:19:01   else was asking questions like, "Oh, what do you think about this?" and like more

01:19:05   existential like writer-y questions. And I was like, "What is the deal with the Invisible

01:19:08   monsters movie. Is it ever going to happen?" He's like, "I don't know." And we had a

01:19:12   long talk about it. And I was like, "This is amazing."

01:19:15   And then I made things very awkward because I forgot my paper books. So I had him sign

01:19:23   using a paint app. I had him sign a book cover on my iPad. He was very confused by the whole

01:19:29   process. But I've done that before. B.J. Novak, who was a writer in the office, he

01:19:33   wrote a book of short stories. And when he came into our office last year, I had him

01:19:37   sign my iPad copy that way and he thought it was awesome. He was like, "This is great,

01:19:43   Chuck Paul and Chuck." Not so much, but I do have his finger written digitally signed

01:19:51   covers to my books. And then because I'm a super nerd, you guys will be the only people

01:19:54   who appreciate this. So basically what I do is I take a screenshot of the cover on the

01:19:59   Kindle and then use the Paint program to get rid of some of the superfluous page marks

01:20:06   then had used the Paint program with the pen sort of thing to sign.

01:20:11   Save that as a PDF or PNG.

01:20:13   Then open up the, basically, hack the Amazon, the Kindle DRM, so that it's like the pure

01:20:20   like AZW file or whatever.

01:20:23   And then switch out the cover image that is included in the file with the cover image

01:20:29   that has the autograph on it.

01:20:31   repackage it, resend it to upload it to my Kindle Cloud account, which then means that

01:20:36   all my devices are synced and have the autographed copy as the front cover of the e-book.

01:20:45   That is a stunning amount of work to go through.

01:20:48   With respect, you could have brought a physical book and a Sharpie and it probably would have

01:20:53   done the trick.

01:20:54   Well, here's the thing.

01:20:55   First of all, yes.

01:20:56   And if I'd remembered my first edition of Invisible Monsters, the world would be better

01:20:59   and I would feel more comfortable. But that didn't happen and I wasn't about to buy another

01:21:03   print book that I don't have room for in my apartment because I do live in New York, keep

01:21:06   in mind. My DVDs are taking up all my space. They're my children, I'm not getting rid of

01:21:12   them. But the books can burn but the DVDs and Blu-rays are never dying.

01:21:20   Well you know you could upload them, use a paint program to remove their covers, put

01:21:24   them on your cloud account, have them sync over to your devices.

01:21:26   I know.

01:21:27   But this way it's just cool to see the autographed thing.

01:21:30   Like any time I go through my Kindle library, I see the autographed cover.

01:21:32   That's what I'm saying.

01:21:33   I mean, it was a pain in the ass, but after I did it one time, I was like, "Well, this

01:21:36   isn't a big of a deal."

01:21:38   I could script it if I wanted to.

01:21:40   It could be an app that dozens of us in history could use.

01:21:44   Dozens of us.

01:21:45   Dozens of us.

01:21:46   That's awesome.

01:21:47   All right.

01:21:48   So you said that Fight Club 2, it's happening monthly?

01:21:51   Yeah.

01:21:52   That's the story?

01:21:53   Okay.

01:21:54   And you're getting it on which app on your iDevices?

01:21:56   Dark Horse makes an app, so it's not part of comicology.

01:21:59   They're one of the big holdouts.

01:22:00   So you go, you just Dark Horse digital.

01:22:03   And then I'm also, this is gonna be one that I'm gonna have to find a comic book store

01:22:06   that is still open when I leave the office, which are words I never thought I would say

01:22:10   as an adult married person.

01:22:11   I never thought we'd hear this on our show either.

01:22:14   Right?

01:22:15   Merlin and Moises are just rolling in excitement right now that somehow that this is probably

01:22:20   an elaborate troll on their part to get Marco and I to talk about comics.

01:22:25   This took a turn.

01:22:26   - I mean, look, it was this sort of,

01:22:28   we could have a very in-depth discussion about Taylor Swift,

01:22:32   but I don't wanna,

01:22:34   I feel like you guys would make fun of her too much,

01:22:36   and I'm just really not prepared to deal with that.

01:22:38   (laughing)

01:22:39   - Well, the reality is,

01:22:39   I have absolutely nothing bad to say about her,

01:22:42   because I have no idea about anything she does.

01:22:44   Like, it'd be good if she's,

01:22:45   and not because, like, I'm like willfully avoiding her.

01:22:48   - No, I understand.

01:22:49   - Because I am that oblivious to what goes on

01:22:51   in modern life.

01:22:52   - She's amazing, and that's all you need to know.

01:22:54   She's incredible.

01:22:55   She's our generation's Joni Mitchell.

01:22:56   I'm not saying that she's as good as Joni at all.

01:22:58   I'm saying she's basically our Joni and damn it, that's fine.

01:23:02   Louis Mantant, I had this discussion at XOXO and then proceeded to drunkenly run around

01:23:08   the Panax offices and get people to tell us how they pronounce "jif."

01:23:14   Everyone said "gif" except for Cable, which I took as a partial victory, but no, I lost.

01:23:20   I lost that word.

01:23:21   Wait, you're a "jif" person?

01:23:22   I am a "jif" person.

01:23:23   - Alright, well that wraps up the show for this week.

01:23:25   - Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week,

01:23:27   Fracture, MailRoute, and Backblaze.

01:23:30   And Christina, since you aren't mentioned in the song,

01:23:32   where can people find you?

01:23:33   - So you can find me on Twitter @film_girl or Jirl.

01:23:37   - Oh God.

01:23:39   (laughing)

01:23:42   Oh my.

01:23:43   - You can find me at Mashable

01:23:44   where I'm a senior tech correspondent,

01:23:46   which basically just means I do periscopes and stuff.

01:23:49   And occasionally write reviews.

01:23:51   And you can listen to me on Rocket, a podcast that also airs live at this time, with the

01:23:58   fabulous Brianna Wu and Simone de Rochefort, as well as a podcast called Over Tired that

01:24:04   I do with the amazing and totally geektastic Brett Terpstra.

01:24:08   And that podcast, you guys, the tagline is actually pretty brilliant.

01:24:11   It's "From Objective-C to the O.C.

01:24:14   From Swift to Taylor Swift."

01:24:15   That's seriously our tagline on our show.

01:24:20   pretty awesome. And we should point out that in case it wasn't clear, and in case you missed the

01:24:24   beginning, our dear friend john Sarah kusa is has been the guest on rocket for this week. So we will

01:24:32   put put links to that episode in the show notes. He'll be back. Yeah, well, everyone, everything's

01:24:36   going back going back to normal next week. But you should definitely check out john and rocket. I am

01:24:40   definitely genuinely excited. I can't wait to hear Oh, I don't even want to think about what how

01:24:45   that's gonna go it because I'm sure it's gonna be

01:24:47   Simone and John, I'm really looking forward to that meeting, that culture clash. I'm super

01:24:53   excited.

01:24:54   I kind of hope that he found a way to do follow-up on your show.

01:24:56   Oh, goodness. All right. Well, thank you so much, Christina.

01:25:01   Now the show is over They didn't even mean to begin

01:25:08   'Cause it was accidental Oh, it was accidental

01:25:13   John didn't do any research Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:25:19   Cause it was accidental Or it was accidental

01:25:25   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm And if you're into Twitter

01:25:32   You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:25:39   So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, Auntie Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C, USA, Syracuse.

01:25:51   It's accidental.

01:25:53   It's accidental.

01:25:54   They didn't mean to.

01:25:57   Accidental.

01:25:58   Accidental.

01:25:59   Tech podcast so long.

01:26:04   Now here's the real question for you, Marco.

01:26:07   How do you take your chili?

01:26:08   Hmm. I don't, I shouldn't answer this.

01:26:12   Isn't that like an Ohio thing? Like there's a, there's like Ohio, the Cincinnati styles

01:26:16   of chili and like other styles of chili?

01:26:18   Wait, yeah, what are the options? What, what are available options for how you take a chili?

01:26:22   Well, okay, I should, I should clarify first of all that I like turkey bacon. Not in my

01:26:30   chili, but just in general, I like turkey bacon.

01:26:32   More than pig bacon?

01:26:34   Yes.

01:26:35   Weird.

01:26:36   I quit the show.

01:26:37   And so this is why when I, I shouldn't be asked about, about foods that people hold

01:26:43   deer.

01:26:44   Like bacon?

01:26:45   No, I'm not really, I don't care anything about like that sort of thing.

01:26:48   I'm just saying like aren't there like in Ohio, isn't there like an Ohio way, Cincinnati

01:26:51   way of having chili where like it's like on top of spaghetti and like there's all sorts

01:26:55   of like weird stuff on it where it's like a different sort of meal than like here at

01:26:58   Chili's like in a bowl.

01:26:59   Well I think that's mostly Cincinnati and where I've never actually been.

01:27:03   Okay, okay, well never mind.

01:27:05   Right.

01:27:06   Christina's knowledge of the state of Ohio.

01:27:08   (laughing)

01:27:09   - And Columbus is much more about the ranch dressing,

01:27:11   which I think that it's traveled further now,

01:27:13   but now, if you go to Columbus,

01:27:17   whenever I'd go and visit my mom when she lived there still,

01:27:20   I would always be surprised in restaurants by how,

01:27:24   first of all, everything you got was tremendous.

01:27:27   By New York standards, by any standards,

01:27:29   any food you ordered, any drink you ordered,

01:27:32   the drinks would come in these 40 ounce plastic diner cups,

01:27:35   just regular drinks, water, anything would come,

01:27:37   like the biggest things possible.

01:27:39   And everything would be covered in ranch dressing.

01:27:42   If you ordered something that included dressing,

01:27:45   like I ordered a, on my last visit there

01:27:48   before she moved out,

01:27:49   I ordered a like Greek salad wrap or something.

01:27:52   And the wrap, like it was like the Steve Jobs iPod

01:27:55   dropping the fish tank story,

01:27:57   there was no air in the wrap.

01:28:00   Every gap was filled with dressing.

01:28:03   So I bit into it and the bottom fell out

01:28:05   and just like dressing just poured out.

01:28:07   Like it was, oh my God, it was crazy.

01:28:09   So to answer your original question,

01:28:11   I have not had a lot of different kinds of chili.

01:28:15   The chili I've had I like,

01:28:17   but I don't have a strong opinion on it

01:28:19   and one of my favorite chilies is actually vegetarian.

01:28:22   So I also like turkey bacon, so I'm sorry.

01:28:25   - I can't get over that you prefer turkey bacon

01:28:29   to pig bacon, this is a genuine travesty in my world.

01:28:32   Not all turkey bacon.

01:28:33   I've had a lot of, like, most of the turkey bacon

01:28:36   varieties I have tried have been awful.

01:28:38   But the Oscar Mayer one is really good.

01:28:40   - This is, my world is upside down.

01:28:43   Having Christina on the show, no big deal.

01:28:45   - Right, but Marco eating a turkey bacon.

01:28:48   - Oh, unacceptable.

01:28:49   - That's bizarre.

01:28:50   - We're gonna get way more nasty feedback on that.

01:28:53   - As you should, frankly, I mean,

01:28:55   because how can you even call it a bacon

01:28:57   if it's from a turkey and not from a pig?

01:28:59   I mean, what the hell?

01:29:00   Like pork is what, - Preach it.

01:29:02   I don't know.

01:29:03   - See, now you've pissed off both of us.

01:29:04   I hope you're happy.

01:29:05   (laughing)

01:29:06   - I think I'm gonna have to have some shells and cheese

01:29:08   or something to get over this, Casey.

01:29:09   - I have a recommendation for you if you'd like to know.

01:29:13   - Yes.

01:29:13   (laughing)

01:29:14   - Well, I also, I'm a big fan of, I think it's Amy's.

01:29:18   I think it's Amy's canned chili.

01:29:20   It's like, I think it's even vegan.

01:29:22   It's a canned chili that, it's definitely vegetarian.

01:29:25   And I like it, I don't like, chili in a can, it works great.

01:29:30   It's a great kind of food for cans.

01:29:31   It's great to have in the cabinet for when it's snowing

01:29:34   and you don't wanna go out and get lunch or whatever.

01:29:36   It's great, but I'm not a huge fan of eating canned meat.

01:29:40   That seems wrong to me.

01:29:41   I don't like to do that.

01:29:43   So vegetable chili is great for that.

01:29:45   Now, in the mac and cheese discussion, Casey,

01:29:48   I think Mike's description of it was accurate.

01:29:52   - Oh, I would agree with that, actually.

01:29:54   - However, I agree that it does taste good

01:29:58   for a certain definition of good.

01:30:01   It is total plastic garbage.

01:30:03   - Right.

01:30:04   - But it is good plastic garbage.

01:30:05   - I can agree with that.

01:30:06   - Yeah, no, that's fine.

01:30:08   Yeah, no, I like it.

01:30:09   I have to admit my favorite mac and cheese

01:30:11   in the entire world is just the Kraft Blue Box.

01:30:14   - Yeah, see, I've had the Kraft Blue Box very recently,

01:30:18   in the last couple of weeks, maybe a month.

01:30:20   And to me, I find it to be completely tasteless.

01:30:24   I find it to be completely bland.

01:30:25   And I've got to be the crazy one here

01:30:27   because everyone seems to think that Kraft mac and cheese

01:30:31   I think they call it Kraft Dinner in crazy places like Australia.

01:30:34   Yeah, Kraft Dinner in Canada.

01:30:36   Canada, they call it Kraft Dinner.

01:30:37   Oh, it's a Canadian?

01:30:38   Oh, I thought it was an Australian thing.

01:30:39   It might be an Australian thing too, but they definitely call it Kraft Dinner in Canada.

01:30:42   In fact, there's even a reference to it in the If I Had a Million Dollars song by the

01:30:46   Barenaked Ladies.

01:30:48   We wouldn't have to eat Kraft Dinner, but we still would.

01:30:55   I never realized that.

01:30:56   Good call.

01:30:57   So yeah, so a lot of people or most people swear that Kraft Dinner is where it's at.

01:31:01   I find it to be completely, completely bland.

01:31:05   Really?

01:31:06   You didn't grow up eating it as a kid?

01:31:07   Because as a kid, like, that was what I grew up eating.

01:31:08   I loved it.

01:31:09   I still love it.

01:31:10   Like, it is my favorite.

01:31:11   Like, Easy Mac is the Kraft Dinner sort of variant, although, you know, it's Easy Mac

01:31:14   so it's really not as good or whatever.

01:31:16   Well, let me be clear.

01:31:17   I will eat the sh*t out of some Kraft Dinner.

01:31:18   I'm just saying if I had a choice, I would definitely take Velveeta.

01:31:22   The Velveeta.

01:31:23   You would do the shells and cheese.

01:31:24   Yeah, I would definitely do the Kraft Dinner over the shells and cheese, although I'll

01:31:27   all do both. I mean, I have no problem with either one. But for me, there's almost nothing

01:31:31   better than like craft, like blue box craft macaroni and cheese, the $1.19 of the box.

01:31:35   Like it's amazing.

01:31:36   This show is taking such a turn. I think it all started with me.

01:31:40   It really has. I mean, and whenever I say this, people like get horrified and I'm like,

01:31:45   yeah, I have the palette of a six year old. It's fine.

01:31:47   Well, yeah, that stuff is good. I mean, it is good, right? Like, like, so we, we now

01:31:51   make macaroni and cheese for our three year old on a semi regular basis. We get like the

01:31:55   with the fancy organic Annie's whatever, whatever,

01:31:58   but it's basically the same thing.

01:32:00   (laughs)

01:32:01   And I always snack out of the pot after I've made it

01:32:06   because it's really good when it's fresh.

01:32:08   - Oh yeah.

01:32:08   - And Tiff and I both, neither of us really want to admit

01:32:12   to each other how much we've eaten when this happens.

01:32:15   (laughs)

01:32:17   But we both eat a good amount of it

01:32:18   because it's just really good

01:32:20   and it does not reheat well at all.

01:32:22   - No.

01:32:23   - No.

01:32:24   like he will barely ever touch reheated macaroni and cheese

01:32:26   even though we always try the next day.

01:32:28   We always try, but it's like,

01:32:30   between the three of us we can easily finish off a box

01:32:35   without Tiff or I intending to have eaten much of it.

01:32:38   Like, 'cause Adam can eat about half a box already,

01:32:40   which is impressive for somebody who's three

01:32:42   and like 30 pounds or something.

01:32:44   So that's pretty good, but--

01:32:46   - It's so good.

01:32:47   - Yeah.

01:32:47   - If you put hot dogs in it.

01:32:49   - Oh yeah, as a kid, yeah.

01:32:50   I mean, he doesn't eat 'em yet, but I have definitely,

01:32:53   Not only did I do that a lot as a kid,

01:32:56   but I have had that meal as an adult for dinner before.

01:32:59   - Oh, I'm not judging you on that one.

01:33:01   - I had that for Thanksgiving one year.

01:33:03   - Nice.

01:33:04   - I don't do Thanksgiving food,

01:33:05   so my dad always makes me a steak every year,

01:33:07   and then I have the different type of mashed potatoes

01:33:09   because I don't like the mashed potato casserole,

01:33:11   and I'm the pain in the ass

01:33:12   if a child has to have different dinner.

01:33:13   And when I was little, my parents thought

01:33:15   I'd just grow out of it, so they would be satisfied

01:33:17   with me eating bread and cranberry sauce.

01:33:20   And then as I got older, they were like,

01:33:21   this is getting stupid, we'll just make you a steak.

01:33:23   But one year I went to visit my then boyfriend

01:33:26   and his family in Seattle, and he made me

01:33:30   mac and cheese with hot dogs cut up in it,

01:33:32   and it was amazing.

01:33:33   That and wine, and the rest of the family

01:33:34   just kind of looked at me, and they're like,

01:33:36   yeah, great girl you got there, Eric.

01:33:37   - You had mac and cheese with hot dogs and wine?

01:33:39   - Yeah. - That's awesome.

01:33:41   - Right?

01:33:42   That was my Thanksgiving.

01:33:43   - That is pretty ridiculous.

01:33:44   - Oh, that is fantastic.

01:33:45   Well, yeah, and with Thanksgiving,

01:33:46   the turkey, filling up on turkey

01:33:48   is kind of an amateur move on Thanksgiving,

01:33:50   because usually everything else that you have on Thanksgiving is better than the turkey.

01:33:54   Even if you have a really good turkey, it just so happens that side dishes on Thanksgiving

01:33:57   are amazing. And most people don't have really good turkey, so it's even worse.

01:34:02   So let me kind of segue this into a slightly different topic. Out of curiosity, Marco,

01:34:08   when you're going back to Columbus, which I know you said you don't really do anymore,

01:34:11   but let's say hypothetically you're going tomorrow to Columbus, what is the first food

01:34:17   item that you're going to seek out.

01:34:19   Do I have to eat anything while I'm there?

01:34:22   But yeah, I'm saying like you're in Columbus. You want something that reminds you of home,

01:34:26   that reminds you like something that maybe you can't get in New York or that you just miss.

01:34:31   He's like, do you go straight to Steak and Shake or whatever?

01:34:33   I think, yeah, Steak and Shake is a good choice because you can't really get that around here.

01:34:37   I don't think I've ever been.

01:34:38   Oh, it's great. You got to go to Steak and Shake at the Frisco Melt. That's it, and a shake.

01:34:42   The Frisco Melt is in San Francisco?

01:34:45   - Yeah, so it's like a sourdough bread,

01:34:47   and then it's like a patty melt with sourdough bread.

01:34:50   - Mm-hmm, yep.

01:34:51   - Jesus, what do you not know, Christina?

01:34:52   Oh, God, you're killing me.

01:34:54   - I know my fast food.

01:34:55   (laughing)

01:34:57   - So you know the important stuff.

01:34:58   - Tiff and I, when we were in college in Pennsylvania,

01:35:01   they didn't, at the time,

01:35:02   they didn't have any Steak and Shakes in Pennsylvania.

01:35:03   I don't know if they do now.

01:35:05   But they did have them all over Ohio.

01:35:07   And we were in Pennsylvania

01:35:09   only about 15 miles from the Ohio border.

01:35:12   So on a couple of occasions,

01:35:14   we did a special night out

01:35:15   where we would just drive to Ohio to go to Steak 'n Shake.

01:35:17   - Special night out to Steak 'n Shake?

01:35:19   That's so delightfully awful,

01:35:20   and I am one of those people that would have done

01:35:23   the same thing if I were in your shoes.

01:35:25   - Look, at this point in my life, like living in New York,

01:35:28   there is a Denise now downtown, which is great,

01:35:31   but I've seriously considered taking an Uber to Jersey

01:35:35   to go to Red Lobster or to go to Sonic.

01:35:38   (laughing)

01:35:39   - What?

01:35:40   - I'm serious, 'cause sometimes I just really miss chain food

01:35:42   and I thought about this as a startup idea.

01:35:44   - Is that a chain seafood?

01:35:46   - Well, look, the cheddar bean biscuits are amazing.

01:35:48   - Amen, sister.

01:35:49   - The cheddar bean biscuits are amazing.

01:35:51   And the thing is, yes, there is a red lobster in Times Square

01:35:53   but hey, they automatically charge you

01:35:55   a ridiculous gratuity charge, even if it's two of you

01:35:57   because people in, tourists don't tip.

01:35:59   I get that, whatever.

01:36:01   B, the surface is mediocre.

01:36:02   C, it's even for red lobsters, like whatever.

01:36:06   - So, Christina, if you were going back to Atlanta,

01:36:08   you're obviously getting Chick-fil-A.

01:36:09   What else are you going to get?

01:36:11   - I love Arby's.

01:36:12   So Chick-fil-A is the first one.

01:36:13   Arby's, Sonic sometimes because they have the tater tots.

01:36:16   Oh, I love Sonic.

01:36:18   Sonic is my jam.

01:36:19   They have the tater tots.

01:36:20   Yeah, so my startup idea, I think that especially with this Frothy is all the shit it is, I

01:36:24   think I could get funding for this.

01:36:25   So my idea is, people are like, "Oh, just use Postmates."

01:36:28   I'm like, "Yeah, it'll be cold by the time the food gets there."

01:36:30   What if you had a service basically aimed at the big cities where you don't have a lot

01:36:34   of the chain restaurants?

01:36:35   So basically, I'm thinking New York is your primary or sole market where you have people

01:36:39   who get together and get an Uber, like a group Uber, and go to the suburbs and get –

01:36:45   Wait, is that a Gruber?

01:36:46   Basically, get a Gruber and go to a fast food place, eat, and then come back and you split

01:36:51   the cost of the ride with everyone.

01:36:54   I would so rock that.

01:36:55   I would definitely do it.

01:36:56   I mean, you have a car, Marco, so for you, you're like, "Whatever, I can just go

01:37:00   someplace."

01:37:01   But for those of us who don't have cars and who live in the city or in Brooklyn who

01:37:04   sometimes want the finer things in life, going to New Jersey on your own for a fast food

01:37:10   expedition is silly.

01:37:12   And yes, one time I did take the Staten Island Ferry to get a Dairy Queen.

01:37:17   I'm only partially embarrassed by that.

01:37:21   And now there's one in Union Square so that I never have to do it again.

01:37:24   But if I didn't have to do those things, if I could just go to the suburbs with a group

01:37:28   of people and eat my Arby's or well now there's a Denny's in Fidei so I don't have to do that

01:37:34   but go to like my chain restaurants. I would love that.

01:37:39   Yeah, see if I'm going, so for me home is New York, it's a New York area, maybe not

01:37:44   New York City specifically but I went to high school in western Connecticut. My parents

01:37:47   are from Mount Vernon in Newburgh which is upstate no matter how you slice it to you

01:37:51   guys. But if I'm going back to the New York area, first thing I'm doing is getting some

01:37:56   pizza and the second thing I'm doing is getting some bagels and I miss both of those dearly.

01:38:02   I'm a particular fan of John's of Bleecker Street. That's my personal favorite. I love

01:38:07   John's. I actually recently, by way of brow beating Matt Pansarino for like three years

01:38:12   about it, I convinced him to go to John's of Bleecker and as far as I know that was

01:38:15   a positive experience for him. If you're ever going to New York, definitely go to John's

01:38:20   of Bleecker. It's in my personal opinion as a non-New York resident, it is unbelievably

01:38:25   great pizza. And obviously bagels anywhere near the city are just fantastic. So that's

01:38:31   what I miss when I go back to the Northeast. We have some reasonable substitute bagels

01:38:35   and some reasonable substitute pizza. Enough that it keeps me from going insane, but it

01:38:40   is by no means an equivalent to what's in New York. What other terrible things do we

01:38:45   need to discuss while Jon isn't here?

01:38:47   Jon Sorrentino We can talk about Windows. He really hates

01:38:49   Windows.

01:38:50   Janae Cummings Yeah.

01:38:51   Jon Sorrentino Coding Explorer is recommending we talk about

01:38:52   file systems.

01:38:53   Janae Cummings Ooh.

01:38:54   - I'll hard pass on that, thanks.

01:38:56   - I was gonna, well come on, you guys,

01:38:57   don't we wanna like talk about like the virtues of ZFS

01:39:00   versus HFS+ again, 'cause I mean, I really don't think

01:39:03   that that's been done to death enough.

01:39:05   - Well I was thinking, I mean, you know,

01:39:06   unless anybody says otherwise, I think HFS+ is fine.

01:39:09   What do you guys think?

01:39:10   - That's good for me.

01:39:11   - No, I think it's fine.

01:39:12   I mean, I think that the--

01:39:13   - He's gonna be so mad.

01:39:15   - Data redundancy isn't that important.

01:39:17   I mean, you know, like everything's back

01:39:18   from the cloud anyway.

01:39:19   Everything's back from the cloud anyway,

01:39:20   so who really cares, I mean, is all I'm saying.

01:39:22   - Exactly. - Oh, God.

01:39:24   I guess that's the ATP final word on that topic.

01:39:27   It's all over.

01:39:28   We'd never have to do it again.

01:39:29   Oh, God, he's going to kill us.

01:39:31   He's going to be so angry.

01:39:32   He would totally kill us.

01:39:33   I'm sorry, Jon.

01:39:34   I'm sorry.

01:39:35   I couldn't resist.

01:39:36   I am a fan of the show.

01:39:37   Oh, goodness.

01:39:37   [music]

01:39:41   [ Silence ]