113: Get Your Ears Ready to Hear Me Complain


00:00:00   - Oh, sorry, you can go back to listening

00:00:02   to the Dave Matthews that you were listening to

00:00:03   that was so amazing, right?

00:00:04   - Exactly.

00:00:06   Okay, so before you and I start a fist fight verbally.

00:00:09   - About jam bands and non-jam bands.

00:00:11   - No, just jam bands.

00:00:13   Okay, so we, Jesus.

00:00:15   I tried so hard not to let myself fall into that trap

00:00:19   and I couldn't help it.

00:00:20   - Oh, that was great.

00:00:21   (electronic music)

00:00:22   - Okay, so we should start the show

00:00:24   by mentioning some legal news.

00:00:27   And the interesting thing is I'm not kidding.

00:00:29   So Marco, would you like to tell us about

00:00:31   the Electronic Frontier Foundation?

00:00:33   - There was this podcast patent

00:00:37   that everyone was talking about in the last couple years.

00:00:40   Adam Carolla raised a bunch of money

00:00:41   and actually challenged it

00:00:43   'cause he was hit by a patent troll.

00:00:45   So the patent in question was from

00:00:47   a company called Personal Audio.

00:00:49   They were patent trolling the podcast world

00:00:51   for quite some time,

00:00:52   going after most of the really big guys.

00:00:54   The EFF raised a bunch of money and stepped in

00:00:57   and filed an official challenge to it

00:00:59   and cited real prior art

00:01:01   and actually got the patent invalidated.

00:01:03   So this decision came through about a week ago,

00:01:07   a couple days, something like that,

00:01:09   and yeah, the EFF has succeeded in invalidating this patent

00:01:12   that was really threatening all podcasts

00:01:14   and podcasters and podcast apps

00:01:17   and everything that deals with podcasts.

00:01:20   So I wanna do it at least, and I think we as a whole,

00:01:22   I think it's good to speak for all of us

00:01:23   to just thank the EFF for doing this

00:01:27   And I would highly suggest to our listeners,

00:01:30   the EFF does a lot of great,

00:01:31   this is the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the EFF.

00:01:34   They do a lot of really great stuff for technology.

00:01:38   They're a non-profit, right?

00:01:39   - I believe that's right.

00:01:40   - And they really fight the good fight

00:01:43   on so many issues for tech.

00:01:45   So I fully support the EFF and I urge you to

00:01:49   by going there and making a donation right now.

00:01:51   So pause us, go make a donation to EFF.

00:01:53   We will put the link in the show notes right at the top

00:01:55   you can see it and they're really great.

00:01:57   Can I be the downer and say that the idea that the entire patent has been invalidated

00:02:02   is almost certainly not entirely true.

00:02:07   Like it's probably like, "Well, the major claims involved in the patent have been, but

00:02:11   then they can appeal and blah blah blah blah blah, legally, so on and so forth."

00:02:14   So like the fight continues and this is but one aspect of, you know, there are a million

00:02:21   stupid patents.

00:02:22   that the EFF uses to fight these is like Mark Cuban's battle against stupid patents fund or something.

00:02:27   It actually has the word "stupid" in it.

00:02:29   So they are fighting the good fight, and this is not the end of the fight,

00:02:32   not even the end of the fight related to dumb podcasting patents,

00:02:35   because I'm sure there's a treasure trove of equally stupid patents,

00:02:38   or even this one may come back to life like a zombie, so...

00:02:41   Yeah, but this was a big one, and this was one that was being actively sued with,

00:02:45   and so this is pretty big news, and they did...

00:02:48   They not only filed to get key claims and value,

00:02:50   they succeeded in getting key claims validated.

00:02:53   So that is pretty big news.

00:02:56   - Yep, this is excellent.

00:02:57   So thanks to the EFF and like Marco said, please donate.

00:03:01   Now with that, taking care of, let's talk some follow-ups.

00:03:05   So John, do you wanna tell us about the gap

00:03:08   that may or may not exist on the Apple Watch?

00:03:10   - This was a topic on last week's show,

00:03:12   talking about the Watch and I think it was Marco

00:03:14   had heard from somebody that had seen a Watch

00:03:17   and you could see the gap and he saw it in some of the videos

00:03:19   And we discussed it as like a possible thing that they could improve on the future watches to possibly make it thinner and make it

00:03:24   Look more like it does in the carefully controlled beauty shots on Apple's websites where it just looks like a black

00:03:30   Smooth surface that has the lights on it and you don't see where the actual panel is inside there and a lot of people

00:03:37   Broughton to tell us that there is no air gap in there because if you watch Johnny I video he says that the screen is

00:03:43   laminated to the crystal this was

00:03:45   Jeremy Herberlein who sent this to us via Twitter and a couple other people said that if you watch the video

00:03:52   He says some models or something have the screen laminated and I think who is this Marco in the note saying that uh

00:03:59   maybe the air gap is only visible on the sport and maybe it's laminated on the edition and on the

00:04:06   Watch version of it

00:04:07   Yeah

00:04:08   Because the claim is that most watch models have have a display that is laminated directly to the sapphire crystal

00:04:15   So that leaves room for the sport not to have it and also because the sport doesn't have sapphire

00:04:19   Right that I think that's probably pretty clear and it could also be that the sport is still limited

00:04:25   Just not too sapphire, but that's an awful. That's an awfully like twisted sentence for Johnny. I have to have said

00:04:31   unnecessarily, you know

00:04:34   Like I'm guessing that there actually is some kind of small gap or some kind of different process for making the the screen

00:04:40   with the Ion X glass for the sport versus making the laminated sapphire one and and I tried I

00:04:47   went to the Apple store a couple times and since the

00:04:49   since the watch became visible there and

00:04:52   I tried seeing any difference between the two and I couldn't get a long enough look at at them to really say for sure

00:04:59   But I was like you are able to see at certain angles the outline that the rectangle of what the screen is

00:05:07   versus what the whole front face is.

00:05:09   And it does kind of ruin the illusion

00:05:10   because the entire UI is designed

00:05:13   for everything to go edge to edge,

00:05:16   to not have any margin.

00:05:17   Like if you look at the iPhone UI,

00:05:19   there's always some margin around the edges

00:05:22   inside the screen area.

00:05:23   The watch, everything's designed with a black background

00:05:25   and they even say like, "Go edge to edge,

00:05:28   "please go edge to edge with all your stuff

00:05:30   "because it's not a big enough screen

00:05:31   "that you can afford margin."

00:05:33   And the bezel around it, or the bezel around it,

00:05:36   is wide enough that that is like a good aesthetic margin.

00:05:41   But that illusion is a little bit weakened

00:05:44   if you're able to see in real life

00:05:46   like where the edges of the screen actually are

00:05:48   inside that bezel.

00:05:50   So it is ideal if you can't see.

00:05:54   - Yeah, there's two issues here with the air gap

00:05:56   is like maybe the image doesn't look like

00:05:58   it's on the surface, it looks like it's sunken down.

00:06:01   And then independent of the air gap,

00:06:02   regardless of whether it's laminated or not,

00:06:04   you have can I see the panel edges?

00:06:06   And the panel edges just, I'm assuming, have to do with differences in the reflectiveness

00:06:10   of the material that the panel is made out of and the area that doesn't have a paddle

00:06:14   underneath it.

00:06:15   So those are both things they can improve independently.

00:06:18   If every single screen is laminated, maybe they could, you know, depending on the thickness

00:06:22   of the material, more of getting the image to look like it's on the surface of the glass

00:06:26   rather than deep down into the glass.

00:06:28   And then the outline, I'm not sure what they can do about that.

00:06:31   I guess get a panel that is darker when light shines on it or try to put some material behind

00:06:37   all the glass so it looks the same so you can't see the edges.

00:06:39   But yeah, the aesthetics, and if you look at all the pictures that Apple takes, they're

00:06:44   going for the idea that this is just a magical curve black top thing and parts of it light

00:06:49   up and you don't need to know where the edges are and you shouldn't know that, for example,

00:06:53   the you know, the eight in the time is actually jammed up against the left edge of the screen

00:06:58   and the top edge of the screen because you would never know that because where's the

00:07:00   edge of the screen, right? And so that's, that is a clever and economical use of screen

00:07:05   real estate, but you really don't want to see the fact that there are no margins, because

00:07:09   if you can see the lighter gray rectangle, it makes that eight shoved up into the corner

00:07:12   not look so hot.

00:07:14   Now speaking of the watch, we should cover what we did or did not pre-order on Friday.

00:07:21   So let's start with you, Marco. Did you wake up at three o'clock in the morning, and if

00:07:27   So, or I guess whether or not you did,

00:07:29   did you order one or more watches?

00:07:32   - I woke up at 2.58 in the morning

00:07:33   and I kept hitting refresh in the app,

00:07:37   which really just means force quitting the app

00:07:39   and relaunching it.

00:07:40   This is the Apple Store app and iOS,

00:07:42   which is, in the last few launches,

00:07:44   it has really been like the way to do it

00:07:46   because whatever API the app is pulling for information

00:07:50   seems to be much more reliable, or at least much simpler

00:07:53   than the Apple Web Store.

00:07:56   And so the app very rarely has any kind of reliability issues

00:08:00   during these big floods of preorders

00:08:02   while the website regularly does.

00:08:05   So the app is really, and the app you can use Touch ID

00:08:08   to pay, which is awesome.

00:08:09   If you have Apple Pay set up,

00:08:10   you can just pick what you want

00:08:12   and you can even mark it as a favorite ahead of time.

00:08:14   You just open up the app, go to your favorites,

00:08:16   hit the thing, hit Add to Cart, hit Checkout,

00:08:19   and you just thumbprint and it's done.

00:08:21   And it's like the fastest preorder process

00:08:23   you can possibly have.

00:08:25   So I definitely recommend that approach for pre-ordering.

00:08:27   So anyway, I did that and I immediately,

00:08:30   the store didn't come up for me until about 3.02,

00:08:34   a couple minutes after three,

00:08:35   and immediately as soon as I looked,

00:08:39   the one I had picked out,

00:08:40   which was the black leather loop 42 with the steel watch,

00:08:44   was already four to six weeks late.

00:08:46   I really wanted something to come immediately

00:08:48   for development reasons, I kind of have to,

00:08:50   so rather than get a second watch, which would be stupid,

00:08:55   I elected to change my order to the only one

00:08:58   of the steel ones that was still showing delivers

00:09:02   in April 24th to May whatever,

00:09:04   like the first delivery slot.

00:09:05   The only one that had the first delivery slot

00:09:07   was the 42 milanase loop.

00:09:09   So I went with that.

00:09:10   After trying them on in store later that day,

00:09:13   I changed my opinion slightly of some of these things.

00:09:16   Glad I didn't get the leather loop

00:09:17   because I really don't like the leather loop.

00:09:19   I wrote a blog post about all this stuff.

00:09:20   In fact, both of us did Casey.

00:09:22   So I won't go too far into it.

00:09:24   Suffice to say, the leather loop is not as soft

00:09:28   or as comfortable or as convenient to use as I wanted.

00:09:31   So I then ordered separately for quote, May delivery,

00:09:36   the two bands that I was most impressed by,

00:09:40   which were the Link Bracelet and the Classic Buckle.

00:09:45   And then I will keep one or both of those

00:09:47   when they arrive, we'll see.

00:09:49   - So you ordered a Link Bracelet separately

00:09:51   to the tune of like 500 bucks or whatever it was?

00:09:54   - I did, yeah.

00:09:55   What I loved about the Link Bracelet

00:09:56   that none of the other ones had,

00:09:57   except for the modern buckle,

00:09:58   is remember I was talking about

00:10:00   what I really wanted most was quick release

00:10:03   and quick attachment with the size being preset all the time

00:10:07   'cause I don't wanna have to mess with the band.

00:10:11   And when I was trying on the Milanese Loop in the store,

00:10:15   I was constantly fiddling.

00:10:17   I would put it on and, oh, this is a little bit too loose,

00:10:19   tighten it a little bit too tight.

00:10:21   I have to constantly be adjusting that band

00:10:23   'cause I know myself, I know I'm like picky

00:10:26   and a little bit obsessive about things like that

00:10:28   and so I know that not having it be exactly

00:10:32   my correct setting every single time would drive me crazy.

00:10:35   - On that topic, we got some feedback about this,

00:10:38   I think it was email, but my first question about all this

00:10:40   is like how often do you think you're taking this thing

00:10:43   on and off, I mean maybe I guess like yeah,

00:10:44   they gotta wash dishes, you gotta take it off,

00:10:46   wash dishes, put it back on, take it,

00:10:47   is it like a speed contest, is it like you have to get it

00:10:50   on and off within three seconds or something bad happens?

00:10:53   like you put it on in the morning and you take it off at night, that's two times a day.

00:10:56   Not that I'm... you can have whatever criteria you want for your purchase, but that seems

00:11:01   weird to me.

00:11:02   But the second thing is that a couple of listeners brought up is the exact sizing thing, your

00:11:08   wrist changes size based on how hot you are, how much humidity there is, how long the day

00:11:14   has gone on, right?

00:11:16   And if you're that sensitive to a particular fit, you may have to end up adjusting it anyway,

00:11:19   And it's actually easier to readjust something like the Milenaise loop as you bloat during

00:11:25   the day, right?

00:11:26   Or go out into the cold or whatever than it would be to try to adjust the link bracelet,

00:11:30   which is not like adjustable with bare hands.

00:11:33   So it depends on how sensitive you are to the specific adjustments.

00:11:37   But I always say like the plain old whatever, just the classic buckle that has like a bunch

00:11:41   of holes.

00:11:42   Yep.

00:11:43   You're going to pick one hole that's going to be the hole that you use.

00:11:45   And because there is no possibility of fine adjustments, at least I think I would sort

00:11:49   of mentally accept the fact that I won't be fine adjusting this. I'm just gonna have

00:11:53   to pick whichever hole works best and there's probably gonna be one that I'm

00:11:55   gonna have to deal with both when it's cold and when it's hot and when you know

00:11:58   when my arms are puffy and when they're not and it's gonna be well that's that's

00:12:02   the whole the thing goes in. I guess you do the same thing with a link bracelet

00:12:05   of just like well this is the size I adjusted link bracelet to and I'm not

00:12:08   readjusting it because it's a pain you need tiny screwdrivers or whatever the

00:12:11   hell you need. No it's buttons but yeah so so so to go back the person who

00:12:16   challenged us was Dr. Drang on Twitter, our friend Dr. Drang, and he said why am I taking

00:12:22   off a watch so much besides just once putting it on the morning and taking it off at night.

00:12:27   The answer to that is I don't know how often I'm putting this thing on and off. Because

00:12:31   I work at home and I'm helping out with our kid and everything, I am very often washing

00:12:37   hands, washing things, getting wet, helping with the bath, all this stuff. I'm constantly

00:12:43   getting my hands wet and washing things.

00:12:44   And so I think there's a very good chance

00:12:48   I'll be taking it off more than once a day.

00:12:51   But it's more that I haven't worn a watch

00:12:54   since forever ago, for 20 years, I haven't worn a watch.

00:12:57   So any annoyance of wearing a watch

00:13:02   is gonna be amplified in my mind

00:13:05   because I'm not used to it.

00:13:06   So just the process of putting it on in the morning,

00:13:09   taking it off at night and putting it in the charger,

00:13:11   all of those things are going to slightly annoy me

00:13:14   for a while.

00:13:14   So my goal here was to maximize comfort

00:13:17   and minimize annoyance.

00:13:19   So that's why my reservation with the link bracelet

00:13:21   is that it is pretty heavy.

00:13:23   And at the very end of when I was trying it on,

00:13:26   I did get a pinched arm hair

00:13:28   and everybody says that always happens to them.

00:13:30   So my guess is the link bracelet

00:13:33   is probably gonna be back ordered and arrive later.

00:13:35   And my guess is that the classic buckle will arrive first

00:13:38   and I will like it so much

00:13:39   I will probably just cancel the order for the link bracelet.

00:13:42   - Yeah, I mean, I've worn a watch most of my life

00:13:46   and we probably covered this last episode,

00:13:48   but suffice it to say, I went a few years

00:13:50   when I first got my iPhone where I stopped wearing it.

00:13:53   And then, I don't know, not long ago,

00:13:55   I started wearing a cheap watch again.

00:13:57   And the only time I take my watch off during the day

00:14:02   is if it's bath time with Declan.

00:14:05   If I'm washing dishes, it stays on.

00:14:06   If I'm washing my hands, it stays on.

00:14:09   If I'm doing almost anything except bath time or, you know, if I happen to go swimming one

00:14:16   day for some reason, that watch stays on.

00:14:18   So I don't want to speak for you.

00:14:21   I mean, I don't know if maybe you're the kind of guy that like takes everything out of his

00:14:25   pockets the moment he arrives anywhere.

00:14:26   I don't remember you being that way, but you could be.

00:14:29   And maybe takes his watch off the minute you're standing still for more than a second.

00:14:33   But for me, I never take my watch off except when I go to bed.

00:14:36   I don't know.

00:14:37   All right.

00:14:38   So John, what did you order or did you not?

00:14:41   Before we get to that, I have one more thing related to all the people telling stories

00:14:45   about ordering at 3 a.m., which a lot of people that I know or follow on Twitter did.

00:14:51   Having heard them on podcasts and read their tweets and seen their timelines, I'm very

00:14:56   surprised by how many of them said, like Marco did, "I set my alarm for 2.57, for 2.58, and

00:15:03   then woke up and ordered the watch."

00:15:06   I'm surprised by that because if I was gonna wake up in the middle of the night to order something

00:15:10   I would not want to put such a small margin

00:15:13   like if anything goes wrong if you can't get on the Wi-Fi for a second or

00:15:17   If the app launch is slow or if you're groggy and you tap the wrong thing

00:15:22   Why in the world would you cut it so close I mean

00:15:26   255 something like is it gonna kill you to like you wouldn't you want if you it just

00:15:32   Amazes me that I'm assuming people are reading the real time

00:15:34   They really set their alarm for 258 and then just kind of like a rolled over and grabbed their iPod

00:15:39   I mean, maybe it's a testament to how easy it is to order from the little app thing

00:15:42   But geez, I would never cut it that close

00:15:44   like it's not even worth because what I feel like if I woke up at that time and

00:15:48   Like because of some stupid tech thing

00:15:51   Didn't actually get to order until five minutes after it's crazy and everybody like I must be the weird one because everybody I've heard set

00:15:59   Their alarm within like one two or three minutes of 3 a.m

00:16:01   And I think you're all crazy. I mean what if your NTP server you haven't updated your time for a while

00:16:06   And you're off by a minute or two like by the time you get the iPod out people could have already bought it anyway

00:16:11   Yeah, but what you're forgetting though is that?

00:16:13   California in general and certainly Apple pre-orders when have they ever been exactly on time there

00:16:19   You'd never know like a why why risk it you're wet you're making yourself miserable waking up in the middle of the night anyway

00:16:24   Why would you not give yourself a margin of error?

00:16:26   These are the type and especially Marco who now lives in New York is not representing well for you, New York

00:16:29   These are the people who are not on time to things because they're like, well,

00:16:32   it only takes me five minutes to get from here to there. You know, yes,

00:16:36   if conditions are perfect, you can't leave yourself five minutes. Well, okay.

00:16:39   In my defense, first of all,

00:16:41   there's usually not a lot of contention for the wifi in my house at 3 AM.

00:16:45   You never know what's going to happen. What if, you know,

00:16:48   what if you had to use cellular,

00:16:49   what if there was a power outage in the middle of the night? What if you don't?

00:16:51   That takes two seconds to switch. And so my rationale there is,

00:16:55   because I'm actually waking myself up for this,

00:16:58   I'm not just staying awake for it.

00:16:59   I'm waking up from sleep for this.

00:17:01   I want to be awake for the shortest time possible

00:17:03   because the longer I'm awake,

00:17:04   the harder it will be to go back to sleep.

00:17:06   - This is like the watch taking off thing.

00:17:08   I wanna be able to get the watch on and off really fast

00:17:10   and I wanna be awake for three minutes, not five.

00:17:13   - I was, no, I was seriously considering

00:17:15   just not waking up for it and just waking up

00:17:17   at like six or seven in the morning,

00:17:18   right for the day.

00:17:20   - That is also a valid choice.

00:17:21   I'm just saying for the people who decided

00:17:23   they were gonna wake up in the middle of the night,

00:17:24   why risk making that all for nothing?

00:17:27   Well, because the reality is usually with these things,

00:17:30   like if you wake up in the middle of the night

00:17:31   and order the new iPhone when it comes out,

00:17:34   you don't really have to do that.

00:17:35   Like you can probably wake up at seven or eight

00:17:37   in the morning and order it then

00:17:38   and you'll probably still get day one stock.

00:17:41   Like there's so much stock of most of these new products

00:17:43   when they release that you don't really have to worry

00:17:47   about that too much.

00:17:48   With this, the risk was a little bit higher

00:17:51   because it's like, well, they're saying everything,

00:17:53   they're gonna have limited stock,

00:17:54   it is a brand new kind of thing,

00:17:55   not just a brand new generation of something,

00:17:57   so maybe they'll have very few of them,

00:17:58   and that proved to be true.

00:18:00   But the risk of missing it by a minute

00:18:04   is really not that high.

00:18:05   And by the way, here it came up at like 302, whatever,

00:18:09   some people that I read, I was seeing responses on Twitter,

00:18:13   like I'm switching back, like once it didn't go for a while,

00:18:16   I was like switch back to Twitter,

00:18:16   check it for like five seconds,

00:18:18   and go back to the app to try again.

00:18:20   And people had already put in their orders

00:18:23   when my app was still launching clean

00:18:25   and then saying not available.

00:18:26   So there's actually these little delays with various,

00:18:28   I assume it's like a CDN propagation.

00:18:31   - Well that's why you gotta have redundancy.

00:18:32   You should be checking on your computer

00:18:34   and also on your iPod and maybe through a VPN

00:18:37   to something else so you get a different CDN.

00:18:39   - Yeah but see, for something like W2C tickets,

00:18:41   back when that was lottery,

00:18:42   or that was the just Rush system, which we'll talk about,

00:18:45   but back during that, it made more sense

00:18:48   'cause the risk was higher.

00:18:50   You knew that was gonna sell out

00:18:51   in a very, very, very short time.

00:18:53   Whereas with new product launches,

00:18:55   It usually is not that severe

00:18:57   if you're a minute after everybody else.

00:19:00   - Anyway, I didn't wake up in the middle of the night.

00:19:01   I didn't order a watch.

00:19:02   I did think more about ordering watches.

00:19:04   I did think about getting the store to look at them,

00:19:06   but I have done neither of those things.

00:19:09   - Well, now you have until June to think about it.

00:19:10   - Yeah, and from the sound of it, it's like,

00:19:12   if you didn't order immediately, then,

00:19:14   although I may have, I don't know,

00:19:16   I haven't made any decision about the watch.

00:19:19   Sometimes I think I should just definitely get

00:19:22   a really fancy one 'cause who the hell cares?

00:19:24   Sometimes I think, what are you doing?

00:19:25   You shouldn't buy any of these things.

00:19:26   You're never going to use it.

00:19:27   So, so far that has resulted in no action on my part.

00:19:30   Casey?

00:19:32   - I talked about this at length on analog,

00:19:34   which won't be out until this coming Sunday.

00:19:38   And by the time we get this episode out,

00:19:40   it'll probably be Friday.

00:19:41   So there'll be a little lag,

00:19:42   but the short, short version is I was in DC.

00:19:45   I was going to give a talk,

00:19:47   actually the opening keynote at CocoaConf DC.

00:19:50   And because of that,

00:19:51   I knew I shouldn't be waking up at three in the morning.

00:19:53   So I woke up at about seven,

00:19:55   actually a couple minutes before my alarm,

00:19:57   and thought, "Oh, let me look at Twitter

00:19:59   and see how it went."

00:19:59   And saw that there were like 350 missed tweets.

00:20:02   And so I immediately scrolled to the top

00:20:03   and said, "The hell with that."

00:20:05   Then I opened the Apple Store app on my phone

00:20:07   and saw, "Oh my God, they're shipping in June.

00:20:09   I must have one.

00:20:10   I must order it now."

00:20:11   (laughs)

00:20:12   And so I had tremendous fear of missing out,

00:20:15   as Mike pointed out to me.

00:20:17   - I believe it's pronounced FOMA.

00:20:19   - I think you're thinking of FOMO, but I'm with you.

00:20:21   So in any case, what I ended up doing was ordering a...

00:20:26   I always get it wrong.

00:20:28   Is it Space Gray Sport or Space Black Sport?

00:20:31   Space Gray?

00:20:31   - The Geek Watch?

00:20:32   - Yeah, the Geek Watch.

00:20:33   - Yeah, 42 Space Gray Sport with Black Sport Band.

00:20:37   - That's exactly it.

00:20:37   So that is what I ordered,

00:20:39   and it is not due in until June sometime.

00:20:42   And I wrote, as Marco alluded to,

00:20:45   I wrote a blog post about this.

00:20:46   I'm still not sure how I feel about all of it.

00:20:49   Obviously I ordered one,

00:20:50   So I feel strongly enough that either I'm scared of missing out or that it might be good that I that I place the order

00:20:57   But I don't know. I keep going back and forth kind of like what John had said that yeah

00:21:03   This this should probably just get canceled. I probably shouldn't even get this and then five minutes later. Oh

00:21:09   Actually, I I think this might be really awesome and I start thinking about all the cool things I can do with it

00:21:16   But in the end I figure I'll just I'll just let it go and I'll and I'll receive the watch in June

00:21:23   Probably after WWDC so I'll look at all of you with your cool kid watches and I'll be looking at my time X weekend or

00:21:29   crying but

00:21:31   But yeah, so I'll get the watch and then I'll use it for a week week and a half and if I like it sweet

00:21:36   Then I'm glad I ordered and if I don't like it, no worries. I'll return it and life goes on

00:21:40   I think the way they did it so so before it did your opinion change

00:21:45   After you saw after you did to try an appointment because you went to see them later in person

00:21:49   Did your opinion of any of these choices change then?

00:21:52   My opinion about watch bands changed dramatically and I no longer lost

00:21:57   Nearly as much over what Stephen Hackett dubbed the Darth Vader watch which is the head the black link the black link

00:22:03   When I so I went to two different try on appointments

00:22:07   I crashed Joel Houseman and Steph Houseman's try on appointment.

00:22:11   They're friends of mine and Marcos as well that live up in DC.

00:22:15   And so I crashed their try on appointment over lunch Friday and I didn't try on the

00:22:21   watch, but I got to like, you know, feel the different bands just, you know, on the little

00:22:25   mat and I got to play with the demo unit that's housed in acrylic.

00:22:29   And I left that thinking, my goodness, this is really bad because the demo unit I used

00:22:35   was really non-responsive, really really laggy, I did not care for it at all.

00:22:42   Fast forward a couple of days and I went myself and did a try on on Sunday and I decided in

00:22:50   short that I really do like the black sport band.

00:22:53   It feels a lot better than I expected, although I agree with you Marco, I'm a little scared

00:22:57   about the sweatiness factor.

00:23:00   I didn't really care for the link bracelet as much as I thought I would, but I think

00:23:04   - I think that's in large part because

00:23:07   the particular link bracelet that they had for Tryon

00:23:09   was like three feet too big for my wrist.

00:23:13   - Right, and your people wouldn't adjust it, right?

00:23:16   - Well, I kinda hinted, oh,

00:23:19   these are really easy to change, right?

00:23:21   Hoping the gentleman would be like,

00:23:22   well, yes, let me show you, but he wanted none of it.

00:23:25   - Well, officially, their training tells them

00:23:28   they are not allowed to take out links for sizing.

00:23:31   Many of the employees are either unaware of that

00:23:35   or are ignoring that and doing it anyway,

00:23:37   which I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do that.

00:23:42   It makes such a big difference when you're wearing it,

00:23:45   whether it's fit to you or not.

00:23:46   - I can see why.

00:23:48   Don't you see why they don't want them to do that?

00:23:50   - Well, 'cause they don't want people

00:23:51   stealing the links or something.

00:23:51   - Little pieces, they'll get lost.

00:23:53   Yeah, totally.

00:23:54   - It's under pretty good security.

00:23:56   They can only have two watches out at a time,

00:23:58   and there's lots of people watching over you,

00:24:00   no pun intended and there's guards at the door

00:24:03   and everything, I mean like,

00:24:04   somebody who's like really good at sleight of hand

00:24:06   could probably get one but like it's not--

00:24:08   - You're not trying to steal them,

00:24:09   that's like they'll just fall on the ground,

00:24:10   they'll fall in someone's sandal in California

00:24:13   and they'll just walk out with it,

00:24:14   it'll be in someone's pocket,

00:24:16   they'll be scattered on the table

00:24:17   and they won't get all the pieces up again,

00:24:18   like they'll just constantly be losing pieces.

00:24:20   - Yeah, in practice, the appointments I've seen,

00:24:23   I've only gone to one store,

00:24:25   but because of various iPhone and laptop service

00:24:28   appointments I had, I've actually been there three times

00:24:30   since the watch just started and it's never been crowded.

00:24:34   Now granted I go during non-peak times

00:24:36   because going during peak times is stupid,

00:24:38   but it is not like some mad rush for the watch tables.

00:24:43   - Yeah, yeah I will say that the two Tryon appointments

00:24:47   that I went to, one again that I was not the star

00:24:49   of the show if you will and the other one I was,

00:24:52   both times in two different Apple stores

00:24:53   a couple hours apart in terms of driving distance,

00:24:57   the people that were doing the Tryon,

00:24:59   employees were super nice, super patient, super helpful, really wanted to impress

00:25:07   upon us that these are really nice devices and they were willing to take as

00:25:12   much time as we wanted in order to convince us that we wanted to buy--

00:25:16   well that sounds shady, but in other words, like they just wanted us to be happy

00:25:19   with our try-on experience and it was really nice. So yeah, so trying them on, I

00:25:24   liked the black leather band a lot. I had heard rumblings that the other leather--

00:25:29   I'm sorry, not leather, sport.

00:25:31   I'd heard rumblings of the other sport bands felt different, and so I asked to feel the

00:25:35   white one, and it is very different, and I far preferred the black.

00:25:38   I didn't really care for the Link bracelet because it was too big and too heavy, which

00:25:42   was very surprising to me because I've had Link bracelet watches in the past and I've

00:25:46   liked them.

00:25:47   And I actually really, really liked the Milanese loop.

00:25:50   However, I do understand where you're coming from, Marco, because my inclination was to

00:25:54   put it on and leave it a little bit loose, probably too loose for the heart rate sensor.

00:26:00   And so I wonder if living with it would actually be more frustrating than I think it would

00:26:05   be because I'd have to tighten it often.

00:26:08   So I can see where you're coming from Marco on that one that it may, even though I think

00:26:13   it's my favorite sitting here now, living with it I may change my tune.

00:26:16   Although I have not ordered one, sitting here now there's no way I'm going to have a millinase

00:26:20   loop because I haven't ordered it, don't plan to, but we'll see what happens.

00:26:24   So our first sponsor this week is Automattic, your smart driving assistant on your smartphone.

00:26:30   Go to Automattic.com/ATP.

00:26:34   Automattic is this little dongle that plugs into the OBD2 port on your vehicle.

00:26:38   This is a little diagnostic port, usually it's in the driver's footwell area and this

00:26:43   is where garages and stuff will plug in their computer things to see the error codes your

00:26:47   car is reporting to them and figure out various parameters.

00:26:51   If you're running tests you can figure out gas efficiency and stuff like that.

00:26:54   Anyway, Automattic connects this to a smartphone app and to intelligent software that they

00:26:59   wrote so they are able to use the power of software to read this data and do cool stuff

00:27:05   with it.

00:27:06   So they can also read your fuel efficiency, they can tell you how fast you're going, how

00:27:10   much you're using the accelerator, how much gas you're burning.

00:27:13   They can tell by combining it with the phones GPS where you are, what kind of routes you

00:27:19   take.

00:27:20   They can tell you where you parked your car even because they know that this is a combined

00:27:24   in there and it gives you real time feedback right as you're driving that can really save

00:27:30   you hundreds of dollars a year on gas.

00:27:31   If you wanted to you can have it make a subtle sound to tell you like oh you're accelerating

00:27:36   too hard to meet your fuel efficiency goal this week or whatever.

00:27:40   It's really great stuff.

00:27:41   It really does combine the intelligence of the software with all the amazing data that

00:27:46   your vehicle has that normally you don't really have any insight into.

00:27:49   You can't really access it.

00:27:51   Of course it can do the basics, like it can tell you if your car has the check engine

00:27:55   light on or any kind of error code that's reporting, it can tell you what it is.

00:27:59   Sometimes you can even clear those errors right from your app on your phone.

00:28:03   It can even call emergency services for you automatically in a serious crash.

00:28:08   So if you are unable or if you're just too slow to get to your phone after a crash, you

00:28:12   can have it call it for you.

00:28:14   This is pretty serious stuff, pretty awesome.

00:28:18   They also have a whole API and they have integration

00:28:22   with IFTTT so that you can do things like, for instance,

00:28:25   you can say as you head home from work,

00:28:28   automatically connect to my Nest thermostat

00:28:30   and turn the heat on or turn the air conditioning on

00:28:32   so that by the time you get home, it's nice and cool

00:28:34   or nice and warm in your house.

00:28:35   There's all sorts of stuff you can integrate through IFTTT

00:28:39   or using their API directly.

00:28:41   It's really pretty great.

00:28:42   You can download your driving data,

00:28:44   you can download your history, your metrics,

00:28:46   all these things that you're,

00:28:47   all this data you're collecting through this port.

00:28:49   You can even subscribe to API events

00:28:53   for things like when you start and stop the car,

00:28:55   if the check engine light comes on for any reason.

00:28:58   Really, really great stuff.

00:29:00   This is all available for both iOS and Android.

00:29:03   They are equal opportunity app makers, iOS and Android.

00:29:07   And all this is available automatic.com/atp.

00:29:10   Now normally, this is 100 bucks

00:29:14   And there is no subscription fee on this.

00:29:16   There's no monthly cost.

00:29:18   Now we have a special offer for 20% off that base price.

00:29:21   So it's just 80 bucks if you order it through our link.

00:29:24   Automatic.com/ATP, that gives you 80 bucks for the price,

00:29:28   free shipping in two business days,

00:29:30   and a 45 day return policy.

00:29:32   So just try it out, there's only no risk.

00:29:34   45 day return policy, try it out.

00:29:37   80 bucks, no monthly fee.

00:29:38   You buy it up front and that's it.

00:29:40   You don't have to pay them per month.

00:29:42   automatic.com/ATP.

00:29:44   Thanks a lot to Automatic for sponsoring our show.

00:29:46   Once again, these have been long-time sponsors of ours.

00:29:48   Even, we even mentioned them back in the neutral days.

00:29:51   They, we talked about them during one of the neutral

00:29:53   episodes, so pretty cool.

00:29:55   Thanks a lot to Automatic, automatic.com/ATP.

00:29:58   - Excellent.

00:29:59   So, we have to sort of kind of follow the sponsor break

00:30:04   with a sponsor break.

00:30:06   And this sponsor break is for us.

00:30:09   Because guess what time it is? It's WWDC time.

00:30:13   And guess what that means, kids? It means it's t-shirt time.

00:30:18   That means we have our act together early this year, relatively early.

00:30:21   Like we are not scrambling at the last second. It's a miracle.

00:30:25   We've actually prepared a short introduction with it to play for you right now.

00:30:27   From the beginning, what has driven ATP clothing is a compulsion to take incredible t-shirts

00:30:37   and make them accessible, relevant and ultimately personal.

00:30:40   We've conceived, designed and developed a range of t-shirts

00:30:46   so personal that you can actually wear them.

00:30:49   ATP Shirt is a singular product with a design that connects with the wearer at an intimate level

00:30:57   to embrace individuality whilst also referencing traditional shirt vocabulary.

00:31:02   We've created three distinct collections.

00:31:05   For ATP Shirt, we start with a blend of three fibers known for their softness and durability.

00:31:15   Cotton is both strong and beautiful and has long been used to make fine t-shirts.

00:31:20   We combine it with polyester and rayon for increased resilience and innovative draping

00:31:26   to make the softest, most comfortable t-shirts in the world.

00:31:31   ATP Shirts Sport is breathable, high-performance activewear, and yet, it's incredibly light

00:31:38   and durable for maximum performance.

00:31:41   ATP Shirts Edition is uniquely luxurious, printed with exquisite gold-coloured foil

00:31:49   that textile specialists have developed to be much thinner and softer than real 18-karat gold.

00:31:57   We designed ATP shirts as a whole range of t-shirts, enabling uncompromising individuality

00:32:04   and elegance.

00:32:05   We're now at a compelling beginning, actually designing t-shirts to be warm, and to be truly

00:32:13   personal.

00:32:14   I'm trying so hard to compose myself, that is so magnificent.

00:32:24   Thank you Johnny.

00:32:25   Thank you Matt Alexander for stepping in and being the token Brit for that because we couldn't

00:32:30   have had it any other way.

00:32:32   It's the only Brit you know, right?

00:32:33   Well, one of two.

00:32:37   It's Matt and Mike.

00:32:38   It's the M named Brits.

00:32:41   And Matt told me he didn't want anything for this, however I have to thank his wonderful

00:32:46   business NeedEdition.com, that's Need, who has sponsored us before, for giving up his

00:32:52   time to let him do this for me even though he's the boss but yeah he's a great guy.

00:32:58   So for more information on our shirts go to ATP.fm/shirt to see the full collection of

00:33:06   ATP shirt. We have three sub-collections I don't know what are they called? You can't

00:33:12   say additions. ATP shirt has three collections that we've curated.

00:33:17   - Exactly, exactly.

00:33:18   - Orders are now live, there's no pre-order wait.

00:33:22   You know, we won't sell them to you in six months.

00:33:23   They're now live, it's only here for a brief time

00:33:27   'cause it's the Teespring model,

00:33:28   so you gotta pre-order a bunch

00:33:30   and then they print them all at once and then that's it.

00:33:33   So if you want one, you gotta hurry up.

00:33:35   It's what, about 10 days or something like that?

00:33:37   - 21 days.

00:33:39   - Oh good, well still hurry up

00:33:40   'cause podcast people are,

00:33:42   you're probably not listening to this immediately

00:33:43   when we release it and if you are, thank you.

00:33:45   But check it out, ATP.fm/shirt.

00:33:50   You don't have to wake up at 3 a.m. to order it,

00:33:51   you can order it right now.

00:33:53   And yeah, so I'm so happy this happened.

00:33:57   - I'm so happy this happened.

00:33:58   And to be clear, in case you are in a position,

00:34:00   maybe you're driving and you're not able

00:34:02   to look at the website,

00:34:03   we really genuinely do have three different,

00:34:06   we have three collections.

00:34:08   We have the ATP shirt sport,

00:34:10   which is printed on kind of, sort of, Under Armour.

00:34:13   It's what is this high performance Hanes

00:34:15   cool dry active wear.

00:34:17   We have the ATP shirt, which is, what is it?

00:34:21   Tri-blend and cotton.

00:34:23   And then we have the ATP shirt edition.

00:34:25   Marco, this is an especially wonderful touch.

00:34:28   Would you like to explain to us the ATP shirt edition?

00:34:30   - The edition actually has gold colored foil as the ink.

00:34:35   I don't know how this works.

00:34:37   I don't know anything about clothing,

00:34:38   but apparently this is a thing

00:34:39   that is actually fairly common these days.

00:34:41   there's actually like a gold colored foil as the print

00:34:46   so that we have a gold edition of our shirt.

00:34:49   - This is so amazing.

00:34:50   I'm so happy about this.

00:34:52   - And it does not cost $10,000.

00:34:54   - No, it does not.

00:34:55   Although it, relatively speaking, it might as well

00:34:58   'cause it's going to be--

00:34:59   - Don't tell people, just ATP shirt starts at $20.

00:35:02   We'll tell you in six months

00:35:03   what the rest of the prices are.

00:35:04   - Oh God, see I'm terrible at this.

00:35:06   I'm not good at marketing.

00:35:07   (laughing)

00:35:09   So yeah, the ATP shirt sport is $20.

00:35:12   ATP shirt is $25 in four different colors.

00:35:16   And ATP shirt edition starts at $50 and also ends at $50.

00:35:21   - Unlike Apple, we will tell you the product mix.

00:35:24   You'll be able to tell for yourself

00:35:25   because there's little bar charts on every single page.

00:35:27   We have literally no idea which shirts

00:35:30   these people are gonna buy.

00:35:31   If everyone wants to buy a $20 shirt, fine, go ahead, right?

00:35:34   So we have no idea what the mix is gonna be,

00:35:36   but you guys will tell us.

00:35:38   Go out there and buy some shirts and then you can look at the little comparison bar charts

00:35:42   And you'll see is everybody buying the sport like I think the Apple watch

00:35:45   You don't have to those will come at the same time roughly so you don't have to buy one to get it sooner

00:35:49   But does everybody buy the shirt?

00:35:52   Yeah, we're kind of the part of the joke is we're using the same ridiculous product naming that Apple did but now we're suffering for

00:35:59   It because we can't even talk about our own

00:36:02   Say are you getting the ATP shirt shirt or the the addition shirt additional?

00:36:08   Anyway, go to the page that's pictures. Click on the one you want and buy it. There's men's and women's style

00:36:12   make sure you don't accidentally buy a

00:36:15   Men's shirt when you wanted to women's or vice versa because the previews kind of look the same

00:36:20   Particularly the sport shirts the men's is in blue and the woman's is in white and that's it. There's no men's white

00:36:25   There's no women's blue and they do look kind of similar. So and the other shirts you can get them in black and gray

00:36:31   make sure you're buying the one you wanna get.

00:36:34   - This is so magnificent.

00:36:36   I'm genuinely so happy that this came together.

00:36:39   We may sell five shirts and I'm still going to be thrilled

00:36:42   that this all happened.

00:36:43   - Yeah, none of us have any idea as we're saying this,

00:36:45   like how many additions we're gonna sell.

00:36:47   We have no clue.

00:36:48   I think we're gonna sell a lot.

00:36:50   - I'm trying not to buy one of each.

00:36:51   Like I tend to buy my own shirts

00:36:52   even though I don't wear them to just have them,

00:36:55   which is why I'm the proud owner of every color

00:36:57   of the Hypercritical shirt.

00:36:58   - Those will be worth something someday.

00:36:59   - In pristine condition, that's right.

00:37:01   but I can't buy this many shirts.

00:37:02   I don't know which one I'm gonna get.

00:37:04   - We've sold a total of six editions already,

00:37:06   three of the black and three of the red.

00:37:07   - How many of those are Marco though?

00:37:09   - No, I haven't ordered mine yet.

00:37:10   - Five.

00:37:11   - No, I'm gonna order one of each edition.

00:37:12   I have to get one for my wife, of course,

00:37:14   and I'll get the men's for me.

00:37:16   And of course, and we have to tell people,

00:37:18   in the tradition of some of the product line

00:37:21   we've heard about recently,

00:37:23   the editions are, the only difference really

00:37:25   is the colors available and the gold foil print.

00:37:28   - Yeah, they all have the same CPU.

00:37:30   - Yep, they all have the same amount of RAM.

00:37:31   They're just as fast.

00:37:33   They all have the same Bluetooth connectivity,

00:37:36   which is none.

00:37:36   - Same artwork.

00:37:37   - Same, yeah, same amount of space, same artwork.

00:37:40   Different colors of the artwork,

00:37:41   slightly different positions on some of them

00:37:43   'cause of the different shaped shirts.

00:37:45   - Right, I mean, there's no bands,

00:37:46   but you are the band in the shirt.

00:37:47   - Yes.

00:37:48   - Think of yourself as the band.

00:37:49   You are a leather loop winding your way through the shirt.

00:37:52   - And you come in all different colors and styles

00:37:54   and you are special.

00:37:56   - This is so amazing.

00:37:57   - I can't believe we actually did this.

00:37:59   - I can't either, I'm so happy.

00:38:02   - I'm just glad we did it first.

00:38:03   - Yeah, I was afraid of that honestly.

00:38:06   Now we're in t-shirt season for podcasters and geek things

00:38:10   'cause it's near WWDC time

00:38:12   and so this is when everyone's making their shirts.

00:38:14   - So we can segue right into WWDC

00:38:16   where we hope to see these shirts

00:38:18   because they are shipping what, May 6th or something.

00:38:22   WWDC starts June 8th so there should be plenty of time

00:38:26   for you to get your shirts and wear them to WWDC

00:38:29   where we hope to see you, right guys?

00:38:32   - Well, I'll be there.

00:38:34   - Okay, so let's get this out of the way right up front.

00:38:37   Whether or not you receive a ticket,

00:38:39   Marco, you have just said you are going?

00:38:42   - Yes, I've already booked an unrefundable plane ticket

00:38:44   and I booked a hotel, so I'm there regardless.

00:38:47   'Cause there's so much good stuff,

00:38:49   like now there's Alt Conf,

00:38:51   and I saw Jesse Char's doing a design conference.

00:38:54   So like there's, and like there's, everyone's there,

00:38:56   and there's all these like smaller gatherings

00:38:58   and people who get together and watch the live stream

00:39:00   or watch the keynote and then watch the sessions

00:39:02   and everything.

00:39:03   So there's a bunch of good stuff going on.

00:39:05   I don't hope that I don't get a ticket,

00:39:08   but if I don't get a ticket,

00:39:10   I'm kind of looking forward to being forced

00:39:13   to go explore more of these things, like AllaConf,

00:39:17   because it really does seem like there's a lot

00:39:20   of good stuff going on out there.

00:39:21   - Yeah, I completely agree.

00:39:23   I am also going.

00:39:24   I have booked my return flight,

00:39:28   Although, coincidentally, I have not yet booked my outgoing flight because I'm trying to work

00:39:31   out with Erin whether or not she and/or, well, I guess not or, she and Declan are going to

00:39:37   come as well.

00:39:38   Just leave him home.

00:39:39   He's fine.

00:39:40   He's old enough now.

00:39:41   Yeah, he's old enough.

00:39:42   He's five and a half months.

00:39:43   He'll be fine.

00:39:44   We'll see what happens, but I am going to be going for the week.

00:39:46   I'll be flying back Friday afternoon, which we should also talk about in a moment.

00:39:51   Jon, what is your agenda?

00:39:54   I like both of you entered into the ticket lottery.

00:39:58   If I do not get a ticket, probably won't be going.

00:40:01   I have hotel reservations, but they're cancelable.

00:40:04   I have not booked a plane flight yet.

00:40:07   I'm just hoping…

00:40:08   I mean I'll just have to wait and see and decide then, but right now I don't know…

00:40:12   Like the whole reason I would be going is to go to WWDC.

00:40:16   I don't have apps that I'm developing.

00:40:18   I don't think I can justify going out there for a whole week for nothing, but I don't

00:40:24   know.

00:40:25   I'll decide when I find out what the result of the lottery is, but unlike the two of you,

00:40:28   I'm not committing to going at this point.

00:40:30   Okay, now would it affect your decision if we asked all of the internet to shame you

00:40:35   and tweet at you and say you should go?

00:40:38   Mmm, no, I don't think so.

00:40:40   All of the internet's not going to be there anyway.

00:40:43   All of the internet could be home, the same as me, watching the live streams of the sessions,

00:40:47   you know what I mean?

00:40:48   Some sessions.

00:40:49   Some sessions.

00:40:50   Would you, if you don't go, would you actually watch the live streams, or would you just

00:40:55   treat it like normal work week and just kind of ignore it and say, "Oh, I'll watch them

00:40:58   later," and then never watch them.

00:40:59   The fact that they're live—it's not the live.

00:41:00   Like last year, it wasn't it like they had the streams basically that night or the next

00:41:05   day, or like there was a one-day like?

00:41:06   That's fine.

00:41:07   That's what I would do is I would come home from work and put the kids to bed and then

00:41:10   watch some WWDC sessions.

00:41:11   I don't care.

00:41:12   I don't have to see them live live, except for maybe I would take a day off to see Keynote

00:41:17   the State of the Union live, but other than that, you know.

00:41:20   Yep.

00:41:21   All right.

00:41:22   So let's talk about the ticketing system.

00:41:23   Marco, you had said you had some things to say,

00:41:26   so I'll just kick it right over to you.

00:41:28   - Yeah, I thought, so last year was,

00:41:30   that was the first year for the lottery, right, last year?

00:41:32   - I believe you are correct, I believe it was last year.

00:41:35   - Right, so basically, before the system was

00:41:38   just you show up and buy a ticket,

00:41:39   just like ordering a phone,

00:41:41   and when they run out, they run out.

00:41:42   And after a couple years of that happening

00:41:45   like crazily quickly, they switched to a lottery system

00:41:49   where you have a few days window to go and say,

00:41:53   consider me for a ticket.

00:41:55   And you throw your hat in the ring,

00:41:56   and then what they did last year was they would email you

00:42:01   after a few days after submissions were cut off,

00:42:03   and if you got in they'd email you and say,

00:42:05   hey, here's a link, you can buy the ticket

00:42:06   within 24 hours or whatever.

00:42:08   Overall it was a very good system.

00:42:09   The only real flaw in that is that it allowed people

00:42:14   to duplicate sign up, so if you had more than one

00:42:18   developer account, which many people do,

00:42:20   especially consultants, or people who work

00:42:23   full time and then do their own side projects or whatever.

00:42:26   - Hi.

00:42:27   - Yeah, exactly.

00:42:28   A lot of people have multiple developer accounts.

00:42:30   And so that allowed you to sign up,

00:42:32   it was like, it was stupid not to.

00:42:33   You should use multiple developer accounts

00:42:35   to increase your chances last year.

00:42:38   And so a lot of people did.

00:42:40   Also, that allowed people to take up slots

00:42:42   in the system who maybe weren't that serious,

00:42:45   maybe didn't really wanna go that badly,

00:42:47   but like, well, I don't really wanna go that badly,

00:42:49   but if I get a ticket, then I'll go, right?

00:42:52   This year, and last year, I forget,

00:42:55   somewhere I mentioned that they should do it this way,

00:42:58   and this year they changed it so that this year,

00:43:01   in order to be considered for a ticket,

00:43:05   you had to put in your credit card

00:43:06   and basically place an order.

00:43:08   And if they choose you, they're just gonna charge

00:43:11   your credit card and it's non-refundable.

00:43:13   So if you sign up with multiple developer accounts,

00:43:16   there's a chance that more than one of them

00:43:18   will win the lottery, and you'll just be charged,

00:43:21   you'll be out $1600, like, you'll be just out.

00:43:25   And the tickets are non-transferable and everything,

00:43:27   and in the past that's been mixed

00:43:29   as to whether you could actually transfer them or not,

00:43:31   but they're pretty serious about it this time,

00:43:33   so we don't know if you can actually easily transfer

00:43:36   a duplicate ticket if you get one from different accounts.

00:43:39   So really, it's like, this time there's pretty much,

00:43:42   there's very little reason to sign up multiple accounts,

00:43:45   or to sign up if you're not really that serious about it.

00:43:47   Because, you know, if you quote win the lottery,

00:43:51   and they pick you, you literally just get charged

00:43:54   and that's it, there's no more, there's no recourse.

00:43:56   - I don't know how many people were aware of that though,

00:43:58   because I certainly wasn't.

00:43:59   I went through the whole process as always.

00:44:01   I did one entry, I did one entry last year,

00:44:03   I did one entry this year.

00:44:04   I don't have multiple accounts that are even eligible

00:44:06   to buy from, I think.

00:44:07   But I did not notice any, like who reads the fine print?

00:44:11   Like I'm sure that was in there somewhere,

00:44:12   but I'm just like click, click, click, click, click, done.

00:44:14   - Same here.

00:44:15   - I imagine a lot of people are going to be

00:44:16   unpleasantly surprised when they get charged $1,600

00:44:20   three times instead of the one or when they go to cancel.

00:44:22   All right, I won the lottery three times.

00:44:24   I just got to cancel the other two.

00:44:25   Nope.

00:44:26   (laughing)

00:44:27   I mean, like you can always do a charge back

00:44:28   on the credit card company.

00:44:29   I'm sure there are ways out of this,

00:44:30   but it's, I don't think that was expressed in the UI

00:44:34   in a way that made people aware of it.

00:44:36   I think after the fact, now we're all aware of it

00:44:38   'cause we're all reading each other's blog posts

00:44:39   from the people who did read the fine print, right?

00:44:41   (laughing)

00:44:42   - Yeah, I am right there with you, Jon.

00:44:44   I registered on my personal account,

00:44:47   immediately went and registered on my work account,

00:44:49   And then like three hours later, a friend of the show, underscore David Smith, said to me,

00:44:53   "Yeah, man, that sucks about the insta-charging." And I was, my words, not his. And I said, "Wait,

00:44:58   what?" He said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're going to charge you instantly if you win."

00:45:01   Oh. And so I immediately backed off. I forget which one, but I backed off and I think withdraw,

00:45:06   or withdrew is the term they used. One of the two hats I threw in the ring. So I think this makes

00:45:14   I think this makes perfect sense from Apple's perspective in that they don't want someone

00:45:20   to put in two or five or ten entries and if you could potentially

00:45:25   Win every single one you're not likely to do that like you did last year

00:45:30   but what I wonder is

00:45:32   to John's point it wasn't really obvious that was the case and

00:45:36   Even if you were like ask screw it

00:45:39   There's no way I'll win and you put in two or three or four entries and then what if all four of them?

00:45:44   Let's say when what are you gonna do?

00:45:46   I mean if you can't transfer them or if you're a solo person and you have no one to transfer them to even if you wanted

00:45:52   To what are you gonna do? Are they really gonna have four empty slots at WWDC?

00:45:56   Like when push comes to shove do you really think Apple's gonna be like well tough no geez

00:46:00   Well, I mean like we had an email a question asking about this

00:46:03   But and of course past years don't don't have necessarily have any bearing on the current year

00:46:07   But the general process has been for the few years that I've gone is that you go

00:46:11   And pick up your badge and you have to show them ID or whatever prove that you are who you are in some way

00:46:16   and that's the only time they ever connect a

00:46:20   Person to a badge. So if you bought four of them on four personal accounts

00:46:25   You could go and pick up one badge go out go and pick up your second badge go out go and pick up your third

00:46:30   Badge go out go and pick up your fourth badge go out now

00:46:33   You have four WDC badges that you could distribute to your four

00:46:35   Co-workers or friends and for the rest of the conference everyone is just looking to see that you have a badge

00:46:41   they're not going to say this badge says John Doe or you John Doe prove that you're John Doe that never happens now

00:46:47   That's not to say that might not happen if you go thinking that you will never be checked and you are suddenly checked

00:46:52   Bummer for you, right like security changes every year, but in the past what I just described has been possible

00:46:58   So if someone did actually win the lottery four times

00:47:02   They could conceivably still get four passes and distribute them to other people

00:47:06   The other possibility is that you entered four times because you didn't read the print that was there that said you were gonna be charged immediately

00:47:12   and

00:47:14   You still only won one you got that you locked out you got the advantage of having four entries

00:47:19   When other people only had one entry and it paid off for you because you lost three times at one once

00:47:23   So now you got one ticket and you still kind of did the same thing

00:47:26   That that Marco was complaining about from last year that people, you know

00:47:30   Sort of just bought a whole bunch and to use the shotgun approach and cross their fingers

00:47:35   The the system of charging immediately will probably work better next year when everybody knows that it's a thing

00:47:40   But this year it only worked as well as people's attention

00:47:44   During the the purchase process to notice that text there like and I do not doubt that the text was there

00:47:50   But I don't know just like your condition to just go click click click click click like I didn't read it

00:47:55   I didn't notice it

00:47:56   You know I just assumed that it would if I saw anything to that effect

00:47:59   I would have assumed like oh, they're just gonna do an auth on a card

00:48:02   but they're not gonna do a settle,

00:48:03   and that's just what everybody does on purchases

00:48:05   to make sure it's a legitimate card and stuff like that.

00:48:08   It never occurred to me that it would be non-refundable.

00:48:12   And realistically speaking, like I said,

00:48:13   I don't think it is non-refundable.

00:48:15   You can always probably dispute it

00:48:16   with the credit card company or whatever

00:48:17   and get the charge reversed.

00:48:20   - Yeah, a chargeback is very possible to fix it,

00:48:24   but that's kind of a crappy thing to do.

00:48:26   This is a pretty bad reason to invoke a chargeback

00:48:29   if you end up having to do it.

00:48:30   And I think this is an improvement over last year's system.

00:48:34   I just think that the communication about this improvement

00:48:37   should have been more in your face.

00:48:40   And next year, I think it will be more socialized

00:48:42   amongst all the people who care enough to enter this lottery

00:48:45   that it will be a better deterrent.

00:48:47   But this year, it seems like it'll probably shake out

00:48:49   similarly to last year, in terms of like how many people

00:48:52   put in multiple entries and stuff.

00:48:54   - I don't know, we'll see.

00:48:55   Anyone who really pays attention to this sort of thing

00:49:00   is likely to have only put in one entry.

00:49:02   Like I said, I put in two, and just like you, John,

00:49:04   I just clicked immediately through everything,

00:49:06   I think in no small part because I'm so trained

00:49:09   and conditioned from earlier years when it was a mad dash,

00:49:12   and even though conceptually I understand it's a lottery

00:49:15   and the time doesn't matter, I'm still conditioned to,

00:49:17   oh my God, gotta get in, gotta get in, gotta get in.

00:49:19   And because of that, I didn't really read anything.

00:49:22   But anyone who is paying any attention at all

00:49:25   or is friends with people who pay attention, like I am,

00:49:28   is gonna have heard about this.

00:49:29   So I don't think there'll be that many that double dip,

00:49:32   but I am curious to see how it's handled.

00:49:34   - I just love that for the first time ever,

00:49:37   I paid attention to something and read something

00:49:40   that you guys didn't.

00:49:41   (laughing)

00:49:42   'Cause I, during the process of reserving my first spot,

00:49:46   I didn't reserve a second one,

00:49:47   during the process of reserving my first spot,

00:49:50   I immediately got that impression

00:49:52   and immediately noticed the change

00:49:53   and they were very, I thought they were very clear about it.

00:49:56   But we will see.

00:49:57   - If you don't have an eye towards multiples,

00:49:59   like I was never gonna buy multiples,

00:50:00   I have no way to buy multiples.

00:50:02   I'm just skimming the text, it's not relevant to me,

00:50:06   but if like you, you are planning to go through one window,

00:50:09   click, click, click,

00:50:10   and then go through a second window, click, click, click,

00:50:11   I imagine what you were looking for

00:50:12   is some kind of prohibition that says,

00:50:14   if the same person entered the lottery two times,

00:50:17   all their entries would be nullified,

00:50:18   or something like that.

00:50:19   That's what you should basically be on the lookout for,

00:50:21   which would motivate you to read all the texts

00:50:23   and then actually read the whole--

00:50:24   - Well, and there is actually a rule in there

00:50:26   that says one per person, basically,

00:50:28   and who knows how they're gonna enforce it.

00:50:31   Obviously, if you're playing nicely by the rules,

00:50:36   you wouldn't enter more than one time in a system like this.

00:50:40   It doesn't sound like the kind of thing where,

00:50:42   if all your accounts have your name on them,

00:50:45   so you're trying to pick up two badges

00:50:48   with the same name on them,

00:50:50   you're gonna, as somebody pointed out in the chat earlier,

00:50:52   when you go in and pick up your badge,

00:50:53   it's sorted by last name.

00:50:55   So you probably see the exact same person

00:50:57   giving you your badge and signing you in.

00:50:59   - It is by Apple ID ultimately.

00:51:01   So like they may say be like, oh, there's two people.

00:51:03   What if you have two people who actually have the same name?

00:51:05   But of course they have two different Apple IDs.

00:51:07   They would have two badges

00:51:08   that both say John Doe on them, right?

00:51:09   And they would say, I'm John Doe, which John Doe are you?

00:51:12   I'm John Doe with Apple ID, whatever, right?

00:51:14   And so you just have to keep going back

00:51:15   and picking up more John Doe badges.

00:51:16   But you can also just have different names on your Apple IDs

00:51:19   for your multiple accounts.

00:51:21   - Yeah, that's true.

00:51:21   But either way, it's now in order to get multiple,

00:51:25   or in order to have multiple chances of getting tickets,

00:51:27   You have to jump through a lot of hoops now

00:51:29   and possibly do some pretty crappy things.

00:51:33   And so it's probably not worth it.

00:51:35   I think and I hope this would probably deter most people

00:51:40   from doing that, but we will see.

00:51:42   'Cause it would be more fair of a system

00:51:44   if people didn't do that.

00:51:46   But the way it was last year,

00:51:47   you kinda can't blame people for doing it

00:51:48   'cause it's so easy and there's no downside.

00:51:50   So I think this is probably a move for the better.

00:51:53   It is gonna be the image we're gonna have to see

00:51:56   how it shakes out as people who didn't read the text

00:51:59   get double charged.

00:52:00   We'll see.

00:52:02   - Yeah, I'm very curious to see how this goes.

00:52:04   And I genuinely wish the two of you guys the best of luck.

00:52:08   I really hope that, I hope that we all get in,

00:52:10   but I hope that you guys get in,

00:52:13   but we'll see what happens.

00:52:14   And it sounds like no matter what, Marco,

00:52:16   I'll be seeing you out there,

00:52:17   and hopefully we'll be able to guilt Jon into it

00:52:19   between now and then.

00:52:20   - The two of you don't even wanna go to the session,

00:52:22   so I think you should just forego tickets entirely

00:52:24   and cancel it. - Whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:52:24   I didn't say that.

00:52:25   You're just like, I'm gonna go to AltConf,

00:52:27   I'm gonna be hanging out at bars,

00:52:29   and expand my horizons.

00:52:30   - No, the reason I've never gone to AltConf

00:52:33   is because I keep getting tickets.

00:52:36   And so I know that if I have a ticket to WWDC,

00:52:40   I'm going to every session, I always do.

00:52:43   I might miss one time slot somewhere maybe

00:52:45   for something else, but that's very rare.

00:52:47   Usually I go to every time slot.

00:52:48   And even though I always comically pick wrong,

00:52:54   whenever there's always like three or four different choices

00:52:57   of like things that are going on during this time slot

00:53:00   that I'm kind of interested in

00:53:01   or that I might be interested in,

00:53:02   I always pick the wrong one.

00:53:04   I'm always in the session that nobody else is in.

00:53:07   And it's always like not quite what I thought it would be.

00:53:09   And everyone who went to the other one said,

00:53:11   "Oh, it was awesome."

00:53:13   I'm just terrible at choosing what to go to.

00:53:15   - Yep, totally.

00:53:16   All right, before we go any further about this,

00:53:18   let's thank somebody else if we could, please.

00:53:21   - Our second sponsor this week is Squarespace,

00:53:23   the all-in-one platform that makes it fast and easy

00:53:26   to create your own professional website,

00:53:27   portfolio, and online store.

00:53:29   For a free trial and 10% off, visit squarespace.com

00:53:33   and enter offer code ATP at checkout.

00:53:36   We actually just made our shirt site as a page in our site

00:53:40   like 20 minutes before the show started.

00:53:42   We were making this whole new page on Squarespace.

00:53:44   It was ridiculously easy.

00:53:47   We had these graphics of our shirts,

00:53:49   we uploaded them into these little gallery things,

00:53:50   inserted text between them,

00:53:51   and we wanted to customize the on click behavior.

00:53:55   And so Casey actually went in and wrote some JavaScript

00:54:00   to hack the DOM and customize the on click behavior

00:54:03   and just inserted it into the pigs, you can do that.

00:54:06   So all this like drag and drop stuff and the fancy stuff,

00:54:08   that's all available, it's all very easy to use.

00:54:10   But if you wanna go in and write some JavaScript

00:54:13   and actually like hack the pigs, you can, and we have.

00:54:16   And it's so great, the way it spans the range

00:54:19   from beginner to advanced.

00:54:21   And it's so easy, and yeah,

00:54:22   like we could have set up another page somewhere,

00:54:24   but it was so fast and easy to just do it there.

00:54:27   And yeah, that's basically their selling point

00:54:30   to geeks like us, which is like,

00:54:31   we can make our own site, we can make our own page,

00:54:34   we can make our own CMS or use some other custom one

00:54:36   or whatever, but why do all that

00:54:39   when it's so easy to just do it on Squarespace?

00:54:41   We'll save so much time and then be done with it.

00:54:44   That is, and there's so much that they do for you

00:54:47   that you get for free just by using their platform.

00:54:50   things like, you know, not only all the dynamic features,

00:54:52   like the cool gallery stuff, the light boxes that we had

00:54:54   first before Casey hacked through them and removed them,

00:54:56   there was all sorts of cool stuff that we can do

00:54:59   on Squarespace that you just get with like two clicks.

00:55:02   And it's just so great.

00:55:04   And compared to anything else that you as a geek

00:55:07   or as a web developer could make yourself,

00:55:10   it's just a massive time savings to just use theirs.

00:55:12   Now, they all know that, of course,

00:55:15   a lot of programmers listen to our show.

00:55:17   Squarespace is proud to be made in New York.

00:55:20   They created a new thing called NY Commit.

00:55:24   This will select up to 10 engineers from across America

00:55:27   to experience the history, vibrancy, and diversity

00:55:30   of Squarespace's home.

00:55:31   Apply today and if you're asked to interview

00:55:33   before April 30th, Squarespace will bring you

00:55:35   and your spouse or partner on a complimentary weekend

00:55:39   in New York City.

00:55:40   They will show you how the city inspires Squarespace

00:55:43   to help anyone build beautiful websites.

00:55:45   Learn more about that at nycommit.com.

00:55:48   Squarespace is awesome.

00:55:49   Only $8 a month and you get a free domain

00:55:52   if you buy it for the year upfront.

00:55:54   Everything comes with, of course,

00:55:55   drag and drop design, beautiful things,

00:55:57   simple, powerful features.

00:55:59   Everything's responsive for mobile.

00:56:01   There's built-in commerce if you need it.

00:56:03   Whole bunch of stuff built in,

00:56:04   way too much to fit in one ad spot.

00:56:06   So start a trial today, check it out yourself.

00:56:09   Just try, go there, create a fake site,

00:56:11   a real site, doesn't matter, try it out.

00:56:13   go to squarespace.com to give it a try.

00:56:16   When you decide to sign up, use offer code ATP

00:56:18   to get 10% off your first purchase.

00:56:21   Thank you very much to Squarespace for supporting our show.

00:56:23   Squarespace, start here, go anywhere.

00:56:25   - Moments before we started recording tonight,

00:56:29   there was a bit of a bombshell that Jon dropped.

00:56:32   Jon, would you like to tell us about that?

00:56:34   - It's not a bombshell.

00:56:35   I've been talking about it on this podcast

00:56:36   for like eight months.

00:56:37   - It's a bombshell, Jon.

00:56:38   - Eight months we've been talking about it.

00:56:40   - It's the least surprising bombshell

00:56:42   the people who know you the best.

00:56:44   I don't know.

00:56:45   Yeah, exactly.

00:56:46   Well, anyway, as I've been discussing since, I think I published my OS X Yosemite review

00:56:54   last year, and I'm like, "Oh, I think this might be the last one."

00:56:57   Well, I'm now making it official.

00:57:00   Two things are official.

00:57:01   One, I actually posted something to hypercritical.co, which hasn't happened since I've cut up the

00:57:05   Yosemite review.

00:57:06   And two, what I posted there was an explanation that I am not going to review whatever the

00:57:10   next major version of OS X that Apple will presumably announce at WWDC turns out to be.

00:57:18   And I've explained why I was thinking of stopping the reviews many, many times on this show.

00:57:23   I kind of tried to distill that explanation into a short little post that I admittedly

00:57:29   wrote in ten minutes before we started recording the show.

00:57:32   But you can go to hypercritical.co and read it, and I don't think there's anything really

00:57:37   new to say.

00:57:38   I just feel like I'm done with that.

00:57:40   I've done that and I did it the best that I could do it.

00:57:45   And at a certain point, the dread of having to do it

00:57:51   outweighs the joy of having done it.

00:57:55   And it kind of crossed over that threshold

00:57:57   around 10.9, 10.10.

00:57:59   And like honestly, 10.9 probably would have been

00:58:02   the last one, except it was like, they didn't change the UI

00:58:05   and it was so clear they were going to change the UI.

00:58:08   And I really love round numbers.

00:58:09   And so I said I'm gonna hold out for 10/10 and I'm totally glad that I did I wrote 10/10

00:58:13   Knowing that would more or less be my last I tried to end it with some amount of finality

00:58:17   Obviously, it's you know, nothing is ever over like it will continue on and so on and so forth

00:58:22   But it's the end of the road for me. I think 15 years

00:58:24   You know 10.0 through 10.10 plus a bunch of the developer reviews plus times, you know the things I

00:58:30   Think I've got it covered. I think I did it and so now someone else can take over and

00:58:36   Like so much has changed since I started writing these reviews when I started writing them

00:58:40   I was the only person writing anything about OS X before people even knew what it was like either

00:58:45   You're a Mac user and you didn't hear about this at all or you are not a Mac user

00:58:50   You didn't care what the hell Apple did aren't they going out of business anyway who the hell cares, right?

00:58:54   and so part of the reason I got any kind of notoriety was because I

00:58:58   Would write these articles about this thing that people didn't even know it existed

00:59:02   They're like OS X what I don't know like you can see from like the first paragraph like that

00:59:08   My first five reviews were telling people that the X is a Roman numeral 10

00:59:10   Which granted people still mispronounce including I've heard by the way the audio version of this new Steve Jobs book

00:59:17   The guy reads it as OS X

00:59:19   Anyway, no excuse for that. But back then people didn't know what it was

00:59:23   No, like Unix and it's a Mac and it's got a command line

00:59:26   Well, I'm sure I won't ship with the command line because that wouldn't be a Mac then like just it was such a different world

00:59:31   These days it's covered like forget about iOS like even though I stand like there are tons of great reviews out there

00:59:38   the idea of a long-form

00:59:41   Tech nerd review that goes into obsessive detail is now not a new idea. It's all over the place

00:59:48   A lot of people are great at it. I feel like I'm not needed anymore

00:59:52   I feel like I've done what I had to do and people have got it covered and we moved on to

00:59:56   Scroll jacking animated video reviews anyway, so I am a dinosaur from an earlier era

01:00:02   The hardest thing about writing this this little summary of why I'm not doing anymore OS X reviews was that I I

01:00:10   would end up having to link to my early reviews and

01:00:13   Boy, I could not look at those like and I say that that's the way it should be with everything

01:00:19   That's the way it is

01:00:20   But I go back to those old ones like why why did you think this was ready to be published like we didn't

01:00:25   We didn't have copywriters back then we didn't really have editors to speak of it was just we didn't know what we were doing

01:00:32   I didn't know what I was doing

01:00:34   Boy, definitely a different world. So I put the bottom of the

01:00:37   This explanation I put links to all of my old OS X reviews also were links to the pre releases and links to a couple of

01:00:43   Retrospectives. I wrote a retrospective about my reviews when I hit 10 years worth of OS X reviews. I did a retrospective

01:00:49   I also did one at five years five years of the OS and ten years of my reviewing them and

01:00:54   and this ending one is around 15.

01:00:55   So there were a lot of milestones in there,

01:00:58   but you want to check it out, you can.

01:01:00   And this year, I have no doubt

01:01:03   that you will have no problem finding

01:01:05   some really excellent reviews of OS X,

01:01:07   as you have been able to for the past several years.

01:01:10   And I'll talk about it in ATP,

01:01:11   so if you want to hear what I have to say about OS X,

01:01:14   10.11, whatever the hell they're gonna call it,

01:01:17   you know where to come.

01:01:18   I'll have plenty to say about it.

01:01:19   I just won't write it down this time.

01:01:21   - So let's get ahead of at least one or two questions.

01:01:25   If somebody set up a Kickstarter to try to fund

01:01:28   and buy your time in order to get you

01:01:30   to write another review, you will not accept that money,

01:01:33   you will not do another review.

01:01:34   - Is the Kickstarter for a machine

01:01:36   that will actually pause time,

01:01:38   allowing me to write the review in a month

01:01:40   that goes by in an instant, then that might be possible.

01:01:43   But otherwise you can't, you know, time may be money,

01:01:46   but money is not time.

01:01:48   And like the whole idea, as I say at the end of this review,

01:01:51   the when I decided that I'm not doing this and when I told our architectica that I'm not gonna do the review for them or

01:01:57   for anybody else for that matter

01:01:58   I was so relieved as I thought of the idea of a summer

01:02:02   I have a summer stretching out before me and that summer I won't be just obsessing the entire summer over this one thing

01:02:08   How am I gonna fit it in? How am I gonna get it done?

01:02:10   How am I gonna work it through all like my vacations and kids kids vacations? Will I get it done?

01:02:14   when is the OS gonna ship like that's what my summers have been like and

01:02:18   Just the relief of being like this summer. That's not what it's gonna be like and of course

01:02:23   I just replaced that stress with a different stress by doing a bunch of home renovations. But anyway, that's the idea

01:02:27   There's a spot free in my stress pyramid, right?

01:02:31   I can just take something else and put it in there and hopefully it'll be less stressful. And the second thing is like

01:02:37   WWDC the prospect of going to WWDC and not having to write a review

01:02:42   Well, it means that I'm not gonna get a press pass this year, right so fine

01:02:45   So if I don't get in a lottery like last year

01:02:47   I got a press pass from Apple if I don't get the lottery this year

01:02:50   I'm just you know tough luck, right?

01:02:52   But the idea of being able to go to WBC and just go to whatever the hell sessions

01:02:56   I want and just just enjoy them and not frantically take notes and not obsess about what I'm gonna write about

01:03:01   That is exciting and relaxing to me like going there is like a civilian that that is very attractive to me

01:03:07   So that's how I know it was time to stop if I'm just like

01:03:10   Excited about all the things that are gonna be different now that I'm not writing it

01:03:14   Do you plan on doing some sort of small blog post for your blog or some sort of quick impressions or anything like that?

01:03:20   History has shown that I'm terrible at writing anything on my blog

01:03:23   So I would if you're gonna bet on that I'm gonna say bet against I guess that's the safe bet there

01:03:29   I will certainly we'll talk about it at length here, right?

01:03:32   So that's you know

01:03:33   It's not like I don't have an outlet for my thoughts without without this long-form writing thing that I do once a year

01:03:38   I will talk about it on the podcast and I won't yeah

01:03:41   Another thing that I get to enjoy is like in past years, I've intentionally held back my opinions

01:03:47   About OS 10 on the podcast because it's like well

01:03:50   I'm saving it for the review like why spoil the entire review by talking about it for months and months on the podcast even though

01:03:55   apparently it doesn't count and

01:03:57   In many people's minds and only the review counts

01:03:59   But anyway now we'll just be able to talk about it as things occurred to us and I won't be like hoarding my insights

01:04:04   for this, you know

01:04:07   30,000 word thing that I'm gonna dump out and then after it dumps out trying to say

01:04:11   trying to like retroactively say let me explain to you my thinking behind these things and when I thought them and

01:04:16   It will be nice to just be able to say things as they come

01:04:19   And I assume most of that will be on the podcast if I write something on my side

01:04:23   I suppose it could happen but doesn't seem likely I

01:04:27   Have mixed emotions about this era ending because I really have always enjoyed even before I knew you

01:04:34   I've always enjoyed your reviews.

01:04:36   But now that I do know you,

01:04:39   and I've seen your stress build

01:04:43   over the last few years especially,

01:04:45   I can see both sides of it.

01:04:47   I can see both that,

01:04:49   man, I really wish you'd continue these,

01:04:51   'cause I love reading them,

01:04:52   but also I see that it really does seem

01:04:54   to be making you miserable more and more each time.

01:04:56   And that every time, like for the last few years,

01:04:59   every time you say you would be writing one,

01:05:02   I'd be surprised that you were still doing it

01:05:04   because of how miserable it had made you the year before?

01:05:06   - Yeah, I mean, it's always been,

01:05:08   like it's not like it's gotten more miserable,

01:05:10   it's always been kind of miserable,

01:05:11   but it's gotta be balanced by like,

01:05:13   well, do you feel like you have something to say?

01:05:15   Do you feel like there's something,

01:05:16   and in the beginning it was totally balanced out,

01:05:18   but like, of course I have something to say,

01:05:19   this is a crazy new thing, like Unix and the Mac,

01:05:22   and then the operating system was this big hairy mess,

01:05:24   and you're like, boy, I've got things to say about this,

01:05:26   if this is gonna replace the Mac,

01:05:27   they got a lot of work to do, right?

01:05:29   And they more or less straighten things out,

01:05:31   and I have my things that I still complain about,

01:05:33   like the file system and the finder

01:05:35   and all the different UI things

01:05:37   and the doc and the graphical stuff.

01:05:38   But at a certain point you're like,

01:05:41   either this could go on forever

01:05:42   or I gotta feel like that I've said what I have to say

01:05:45   and it's time.

01:05:47   I'm not going to top myself at this point.

01:05:51   Maybe the writing will get better,

01:05:53   but it's just such a different world.

01:05:56   iOS is so dominant that didn't even exist when I started

01:05:59   and everything about OS X has to be written in terms of iOS.

01:06:02   So half of my recent reviews are kind of like half iOS reviews because OS X features and

01:06:09   its state in the entire industry is a reflection of wherever iOS is.

01:06:14   I don't know, I'm sure there will come a time when they release a new version of OS X that

01:06:21   is such a radically different thing that I'll be like, "Oh man, I could have written a review

01:06:26   of that that would have returned to form or whatever."

01:06:29   But I just feel like I need to expand my horizons.

01:06:33   What kind of writer...

01:06:34   This is something I put at the bottom.

01:06:35   I just added at the last minute at the bottom of this post to remind people that my full-time

01:06:39   job has never been as a technology writer.

01:06:42   My full-time job has never been a podcaster.

01:06:46   My full-time job is as a programmer.

01:06:47   All this stuff I do in the "free time" that I can carve out of my life with my family

01:06:52   and my real job.

01:06:53   And there's not a lot of that time.

01:06:55   As anyone who has children and a wife and a regular 9 to 5 job that they go to, see

01:07:02   how much time you can carve out for anything really, any kind of hobby type thing.

01:07:07   And if those hobby things end up either like not being fun, it's like, well then when is

01:07:12   your fun time?

01:07:13   It's like, well, after my regular job, I have my podcasting job.

01:07:16   And after my podcasting job, I have my freelance writing job.

01:07:19   And then I have my family responsibilities.

01:07:21   And it's like sometimes I just want to, you know, just relax and not have to do anything.

01:07:27   And it's a balance.

01:07:29   Like I mean I get paid for writing these things, so that's good.

01:07:32   And I enjoyed writing them and I enjoyed having written them.

01:07:34   And podcasting is what has come to replace a lot of my writing because it honestly, for

01:07:40   me because I'm such a terribly slow writer, takes less time to talk on a podcast.

01:07:45   And so the ratio of enjoyment to investment of time is much better for podcasting.

01:07:50   So I've been, as I noted the thing, I've been podcasting,

01:07:52   like I tried to do the math,

01:07:54   I didn't have time to do all the Google searching

01:07:55   of my calendar to see.

01:07:57   I'm doing like what, 1.5, two podcasts a week

01:08:00   for the past four or five years or something?

01:08:03   I'm practically, I'm a fairly prolific podcaster

01:08:07   at this point.

01:08:08   And it takes way less time than doing a single OS X review

01:08:12   because just, you know, we're just talking here, right?

01:08:14   And you just show up and you talk

01:08:16   and the whole ATP thing of not doing research,

01:08:18   it makes it sustainable and puts the balance way on the side of enjoyment for a podcast.

01:08:24   And that's by design. I mean, that's exactly why we do it this way. And I have a similar

01:08:32   battle as you in my mind of when do I write a blog post versus when do I save it for the

01:08:37   podcast. Well, the blog posts are a little bit easier, but the kind of blog posts are

01:08:41   the worst is the one where you've got to look up stuff. You're going to the Intel site,

01:08:43   you're looking at spec pages, you're looking at benchmarks, and then what if you have to

01:08:47   testing things yourself. It's so much easier to bang out like a three paragraph

01:08:50   like this thing I just wrote here. It's all opinion, a couple links to old stuff,

01:08:53   done and done. There's no facts, there's no like things that you need to verify

01:08:57   and then product reviews are the worst. You got to verify things about an

01:09:00   unreleased product from a company that doesn't isn't really particularly

01:09:03   communicative to you and and there's a deadline and it's just yeah so there's a

01:09:07   range within writing but I mean that I'm a slow writer no matter what I'm writing.

01:09:11   Like I'm amazed that I even got this thing done in ten minutes I've just sort

01:09:13   of closed my eyes and typed and like I would never have published that if I

01:09:17   We didn't have the podcast outline coming up and the shirts that we had to get up and

01:09:21   that actually motivated me to just hit the publish button but I would have sat on that

01:09:24   for four more days to try to get it right.

01:09:27   Yeah and I think a big part of what makes podcasting so much more attractive or more

01:09:34   efficient of time is, as we've talked about in a couple episodes ago, the expectations

01:09:40   of this medium are that it's a casual conversation.

01:09:43   And so like, I've spoken at a couple of conferences recently and I talked to a few people and

01:09:50   I mentioned to a few people how I'm always very, very nervous to give conference talks

01:09:54   and I don't really like doing it that often.

01:09:56   And if somebody has listened to this show, that surprises them because here I don't generally

01:10:02   sound nervous.

01:10:04   And my reason for the difference there is that even though a conference talk will be

01:10:08   be watched by a very small fraction of the number of people

01:10:12   who hear the show every week.

01:10:14   The expectations are extremely different from each of those.

01:10:20   So like the expectations of a conference talker

01:10:22   that it is this like totally pre-written, rehearsed,

01:10:27   polished, researched thing that is fully formed beforehand

01:10:31   and all the work is thought through and done

01:10:34   and then it's presented to you as a complete,

01:10:36   polished product.

01:10:38   And a blog post has many of the same expectations,

01:10:43   that it's something, this is like a more formal

01:10:46   kind of communication, a more like structured,

01:10:49   researched, more finalized, polished kind of thing

01:10:53   that has higher standards applied to it

01:10:56   if you have much of an audience at all or any audience.

01:10:59   And the kind of reviews that you did,

01:11:01   that seems like it would have an even higher,

01:11:04   an even higher expectation there, inherently,

01:11:07   of like the things you say better be correct,

01:11:10   you better be seeing all sides of it,

01:11:12   you better, this better be complete, correct,

01:11:14   and polished and well done,

01:11:16   and I can totally understand why that would

01:11:21   not only stress you out a lot,

01:11:22   but why that is less and less appealing over time

01:11:26   as you have these other outlets like podcasting

01:11:30   where the expectations are so different

01:11:34   and so much more kind of low-key or casual

01:11:37   so that it's less of a time commitment, it's less stress,

01:11:40   there's less pressure to have everything exactly right

01:11:43   that you ever say, I totally get that.

01:11:46   - Yeah, and like the value, the value,

01:11:49   like if you were to carve up an OS X review

01:11:50   and to say what parts are valuable to people,

01:11:52   it's shifted such that I think the parts

01:11:55   that are the hardest work have the least value.

01:11:58   Like, especially in the type of reviews that I did,

01:12:00   because it was like, oh, your reviews

01:12:01   are in-depth or technical, but I was never

01:12:03   like a Tom's Hardware or AnandTech or whatever,

01:12:05   where it's all about like benchmarks and specs and whatever.

01:12:07   And we love those reviews.

01:12:08   And I love that somebody does them.

01:12:10   And I love that that someone isn't me, right?

01:12:11   Because that is incredibly hard work.

01:12:13   And we crave that info, but we are few and nerdy, right?

01:12:17   And so like most people, the most,

01:12:19   then that's the hardest part of the reviews to do.

01:12:21   Like getting the particular details of tech or software

01:12:24   or compatibility or other things

01:12:26   that I'm honestly ill-equipped to do

01:12:28   because I don't have a computer lab here.

01:12:30   Like I only ever had the loaner hardware for one year's review, right?

01:12:34   I just have the computers that I have and I do what I can and that was fine in the early days of the web

01:12:39   When no one knew what that they were doing we're all just like banging on keyboards like monkeys trying to you know

01:12:43   Make something happen, right? But these days there are professional organizations that like

01:12:48   You know have people dedicated to you know lab test things and like or experience of doing battery tests

01:12:55   I like when I had to do the battery testing for Mavericks like that was miserable and there's no way in hell

01:12:59   I did a good job as an anti-tech review like I couldn't I don't you know

01:13:02   I don't have the experience those guys do it all the time. They have a system

01:13:05   They have their own custom applications

01:13:07   Like they can test 17 different computers against each other because they have all those computers

01:13:11   I couldn't do that because I don't have those computers and

01:13:13   That's the hardest work and I think it has the least value for people who are reading my reviews because people who are reading my

01:13:19   Reviews, it's like they want me to get that right and it needs to be there, but they're reading it for like, you know

01:13:26   the the sort of like criticism or insight or historical context or

01:13:31   Also like

01:13:34   technical background on things where it's like you know if you read my reviews because they're kind of an

01:13:38   aspirational thing where you're like

01:13:39   I want to be the type of nerd who understands everything this review

01:13:42   But I don't yet and so I can follow these links to do it and there'll be a section in you know five years ago

01:13:47   About Unix permissions, and I'm not that familiar with Unix

01:13:50   But I'm an old-time Mac user and I would like someone to explain to me what the hell you know

01:13:54   permissions are, nestled in the middle of a big giant OS X review. That's a lot of

01:13:59   the things that people say, "Hey, I remember reading your review and I remember the

01:14:02   section on whatever was the first time that I learned about whatever," and it's

01:14:04   like, I sneak those things into the review and those are the fun parts to

01:14:08   write about, just kind of like things that I already know well that are just

01:14:11   background information for the thing, or you know, talking about the UI

01:14:16   criticism and stuff like that. Those are easier to write and that's where most of

01:14:20   the value is, but that other stuff is so much harder to write and people seem to care less

01:14:25   and less about it.

01:14:26   So I was, you know, at like, I feel like the time of my style of review has come and gone

01:14:30   and now it has swung in opposite directions where you have the super technical review,

01:14:35   which I never was, and the super soft touchy feely review, which I could kind of do, but

01:14:39   it actually interests me a little bit less.

01:14:41   Like I wanted to do the format of my review and the way it's sort of structured and the

01:14:47   parts that it makes. It's kind of like a motley type thing where it's got all these parts

01:14:51   that you wouldn't think mixed together, but that's the mix that I wanted and that's what

01:14:54   I did and I did it and refined that form and I feel like that's it and I feel like that

01:14:58   form has less value to the reader these days. It's less important to the reader and it's

01:15:04   less interesting to me because I feel like I've done it, you know?

01:15:07   Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, you know, you are more critical on your own work

01:15:12   then I would venture to say probably anybody else

01:15:15   in the audience is.

01:15:16   But I can see where you're coming from of like,

01:15:21   you've done this, it's done, time for something else.

01:15:25   - Yeah, and plus like reviewing a single product

01:15:27   for some, like even if I was like,

01:15:29   I'm a full-time professional product reviewer,

01:15:30   which I'm not and have never been again,

01:15:32   but even if I was, would you wanna keep reviewing

01:15:34   the same product year after year?

01:15:36   You wanna review different things, you wanna branch out,

01:15:37   you wanna do different styles of reviews.

01:15:38   Like if this was actually my full-time job,

01:15:40   I would have grown tired of this long ago.

01:15:42   Because it was only like a once yearly thing,

01:15:44   I could tolerate it for longer,

01:15:46   but it's like, you know, I want some variety too, right?

01:15:49   - I'm sad, Jon, I'm sad.

01:15:51   It wasn't that long ago that we were making videos

01:15:53   about getting our fingers ready to read your review.

01:15:57   And now it's a time long gone.

01:16:00   - Get your ears ready to hear me complain.

01:16:02   (laughing)

01:16:05   My ears are always ready for that, Jon.

01:16:06   - Amen.

01:16:07   - You just made an unintentional gaming reference.

01:16:12   Congratulations, Marco.

01:16:13   This is the new twist on the,

01:16:14   John makes a reference that nobody gets.

01:16:16   Now Marco is making a reference that nobody gets.

01:16:18   - Including me.

01:16:19   - Yeah, he said his ears are ready.

01:16:21   - I've got it. - Still nothing.

01:16:23   Yeah. - I know.

01:16:24   You're not gonna get it.

01:16:25   You don't get it, but you made it.

01:16:26   Someone in the chat room will.

01:16:27   - Is this like when Americans try to speak English

01:16:30   to non-English speakers

01:16:31   just by repeating themselves slowly and loudly?

01:16:33   - No, it's just another reference.

01:16:37   - All right, what else is awesome these days?

01:16:39   - Our final sponsor this week is Backblaze.

01:16:42   Go to backblaze.com/atp.

01:16:45   Backblaze is online backup.

01:16:48   Now, I have been using this forever.

01:16:51   Long before they were a sponsor, I've been using Backblaze.

01:16:54   I've tried other ones out there.

01:16:55   Backblaze is by far my favorite.

01:16:57   In so many ways, it is great.

01:16:59   So first of all, it is unlimited and un-throttled.

01:17:02   So for five bucks a month, you get unlimited disk space.

01:17:06   That's it, five bucks a month, unlimited disk space.

01:17:09   I can't believe how they can do this,

01:17:11   I don't know how, 'cause I've,

01:17:13   between me and my wife they get 10 bucks a month

01:17:15   'cause we have one computer each,

01:17:17   and we have something like four terabytes in there.

01:17:20   It's a lot.

01:17:21   And they probably don't make money on us to be honest,

01:17:24   but they still offer it.

01:17:25   Five bucks a month, unlimited space per computer.

01:17:28   Really, really great.

01:17:29   Now, if you don't have online backup,

01:17:33   I really, I have to urge you to do it.

01:17:35   There are so many problems that this protects you from.

01:17:37   If you just have like a local time machine thing

01:17:40   or a clone that you occasionally remember to update,

01:17:43   first of all, online backup is continuous.

01:17:45   When things are changed,

01:17:46   they can be uploaded immediately if you want to.

01:17:49   They can really be quite significant gains there.

01:17:53   And there's a whole class of problems

01:17:55   that online backup protects you from.

01:17:57   So anything that happens that would affect electronics

01:18:01   in both your computer and in the time machine drive

01:18:04   plugged into it, say, or the clone plugged into it.

01:18:07   You are protected from all those classes.

01:18:08   So things like electric surges,

01:18:11   if you have a lightning strike or whatever.

01:18:13   Things like floods, if let's say you're in an apartment

01:18:15   and the person above you floods their bathroom

01:18:17   and it floods into your apartment

01:18:18   and drips water all over your computer

01:18:19   and everything breaks.

01:18:20   That will probably kill your external hard drive too.

01:18:23   Protect you from that.

01:18:24   Fires, theft, all sorts of possible problems

01:18:28   that online backup protects you from.

01:18:29   It's a nice fail safe.

01:18:31   You don't have to replace local backup with it.

01:18:34   In fact, I recommend that you don't.

01:18:36   But it is really nice to have as an ultimate fail safe

01:18:39   of like if everything, if all the equipment I have

01:18:43   gets harmed or stolen or somehow destroyed or hurt,

01:18:47   I always have that online backup as a fail safe.

01:18:50   Five bucks a month, you can't go wrong.

01:18:52   Now, as back to back play specifically,

01:18:56   they have over 100 petabytes of data backed up

01:18:58   in their data centers.

01:19:00   Restoring is easy, they have an online interface

01:19:03   you can do on the web, or they also have a mobile app

01:19:05   with iOS or Android, so you can actually go in

01:19:07   and you can restore one file with the mobile app

01:19:10   just to get it on your phone.

01:19:12   So if you're on vacation somewhere,

01:19:13   you're away from your computer, whatever,

01:19:14   you can get a file off your computer through Backblaze.

01:19:17   You can also restore, of course, whole directories,

01:19:19   whole drives, whatever you want.

01:19:21   Backblaze runs native on the Mac and on Yosemite,

01:19:24   and of course, they always update.

01:19:26   Even on launch day, they had a dark mode Yosemite icon.

01:19:30   Like if you run Yosemite in dark mode,

01:19:32   you probably know like half your menu things

01:19:34   didn't have icons, many of them probably still don't.

01:19:36   Backlaces are there on day one, they keep up to date.

01:19:38   You're never like upgrading to a new OS,

01:19:40   then oh, backlaces isn't ready yet,

01:19:41   it's gonna break or be weird.

01:19:43   Nope, they're always ready on day one.

01:19:44   It doesn't use like Java or anything else.

01:19:46   It's all native code, it runs natively at full speed.

01:19:51   It's not too hard on your CPU,

01:19:52   it's smarter about not being too hard on your bandwidth.

01:19:55   Really a very, very, very good service, very good app.

01:19:58   I can't say enough good things about Backblaze.

01:20:00   There's no gimmicks, there's no add-ons.

01:20:02   Five bucks a month, unlimited space.

01:20:04   It is as simple as that.

01:20:06   Get a risk-free, no credit card required trial,

01:20:10   which is a really nice thing.

01:20:11   No credit card required, a real free trial

01:20:14   at backblaze.com/atp.

01:20:17   Backblaze.com/atp, really go right now.

01:20:19   It is seriously very, very easy to get set up

01:20:21   and it is so nice to have the peace of mind

01:20:25   for just five bucks a month that all your stuff is backed up.

01:20:27   And it's really great.

01:20:29   So definitely check it out.

01:20:30   Backblaze.com/ATP.

01:20:32   Thanks a lot.

01:20:33   - One more thing on Backblaze.

01:20:35   Did you see the blog post they had this year

01:20:37   on their always excellent Backblaze blog

01:20:40   where they talk about their hard drive failures and stuff?

01:20:42   - Oh yeah, I love those posts.

01:20:43   - So this one was about a crop of Seagate

01:20:46   three terabyte drives they bought

01:20:47   sometime around the Thailand tsunami time.

01:20:52   And it's just, the investigation of what went wrong

01:20:55   is one thing, but just listen to this.

01:20:57   They buy thousands of drives, first of all, all right?

01:20:59   And they say in their experience,

01:21:00   80% of the drives they buy are still working

01:21:03   four years after they buy them.

01:21:04   But with this particular crop of drives,

01:21:07   just 10% of the drives were still working four years later.

01:21:10   - Oh my God.

01:21:11   - So like, they bought a bunch of these

01:21:12   and was like, yeah, they're like, okay.

01:21:14   And then all of a sudden, like around year two,

01:21:15   like just massive amounts of them failed at once.

01:21:17   It's like the nightmare scenario.

01:21:18   You know, if you buy a hard drive

01:21:19   and it goes bad before you think it does,

01:21:21   They bought thousands of hard drives.

01:21:23   Like 90% of them were dead in four years.

01:21:26   That is tough.

01:21:27   Anyway, it's a great blog post.

01:21:28   We'll put the link in the show notes.

01:21:30   - What else do we wanna talk about about WWDC?

01:21:34   - I was gonna say like to get back to the OS X review.

01:21:36   So how does this affect my decision?

01:21:37   It does affect it because it's like,

01:21:39   if I don't win the lottery, I'm not gonna get a press pass

01:21:44   'cause last year I got the press pass through Ars Technica

01:21:45   who I was writing a review for.

01:21:46   I'm not doing that again this year.

01:21:49   And last year Apple wants to give me a press pass for ADB,

01:21:51   which I will gladly accept.

01:21:52   But anyway, I don't have a reason to be there

01:21:56   other than recreation and seeing people, right?

01:21:59   And so that changes my calculus

01:22:02   of whether I would go or not,

01:22:05   because there's no quote unquote work-related reason

01:22:07   for me to be there.

01:22:08   It would be entirely social and vacation.

01:22:10   Really, I want to go to the sessions.

01:22:11   I want to get that experience of being able to go there

01:22:14   and enjoy them without having homework, so to speak.

01:22:19   So that does factor into my decision of whether I will go out there for a shorter period of

01:22:24   time, for the whole time, or not at all if I don't happen to get a ticket.

01:22:28   Yeah, it's also, I think it will change everyone's calculus also that hotel prices

01:22:33   seem to have gone up this year noticeably.

01:22:35   Yes, yes.

01:22:36   Like everything seems to be more expensive because like the plane ticket I'm sure is

01:22:41   going to be terrible too because I didn't already buy my plane ticket because I'm

01:22:43   waiting to see if I get a lottery, right?

01:22:45   Yeah.

01:22:46   Usually for this thing, usually the hotel is the biggest cost, often matching or surpassing

01:22:53   the cost of the conference ticket itself.

01:22:55   So you're looking at like $2,000 for the hotel for the week and it's $1,600 for the ticket,

01:23:00   $3,600.

01:23:01   Then your plane ticket, you're probably looking at another $4,000 to $800 depending on, maybe

01:23:06   more if you're coming from internationally.

01:23:08   So you're looking at like $4,500 worth of base cost here plus expenses that you incur

01:23:14   while you're there, plus you gotta take vacation days.

01:23:17   So I can totally see why this would,

01:23:21   like as these costs go up.

01:23:22   - Yeah, and I'm not getting any of this money back.

01:23:24   Like ours would pay for my travel and my ticket

01:23:27   or in the case of a press pass,

01:23:28   you know, Apple would pay for the ticket.

01:23:29   Like there is no reimbursement.

01:23:31   There isn't, you know what I mean?

01:23:32   I'm willing to go out of pocket for it.

01:23:33   Like despite the fact that it's a really expensive fine,

01:23:35   but like it all factors in.

01:23:38   - Yeah, I mean, I hope we can get you there

01:23:40   because I think it would be a shame if you were not there.

01:23:42   - Yep.

01:23:42   For people who choose not to go because it's very expensive,

01:23:47   I totally can understand that.

01:23:49   - All right, well, we'll see.

01:23:51   You know, something I've been thinking about

01:23:53   is what happens if John, you don't get a ticket,

01:23:58   if Marco, you don't get a ticket, and then I get a ticket?

01:24:01   Because we've already established earlier in this show

01:24:04   that I don't do well with missing out on things, apparently.

01:24:08   This is like a new discovery for me.

01:24:09   But I almost wonder if that would be not worse, but bad.

01:24:14   I mean, I would still absolutely go to the conference

01:24:17   and I would still try to learn as much as I can

01:24:20   because I enjoy it so much.

01:24:21   And I always feel like so amped up on the way home

01:24:24   about all the awesome new stuff I've learned

01:24:26   and about what's coming from Apple.

01:24:27   But I would really, to some degree,

01:24:31   I would be a little bit bummed

01:24:32   if I was the only one that got a ticket

01:24:36   because then I'd be missing out on all the fun things

01:24:39   that maybe you guys would be doing,

01:24:41   or just Marco or whatever.

01:24:42   And so-- - You know,

01:24:43   I wouldn't be doing any fun things, so.

01:24:44   - Yeah, it's true.

01:24:45   All the fun things Marco would be doing, good call.

01:24:47   - No, I mean, I think what would happen is that

01:24:49   if John doesn't get a ticket, I bet he's not going, right?

01:24:52   I mean, that's very, I bet that's what happens.

01:24:54   If I don't get a ticket, then I'll go

01:24:59   and I'll see you at night, and then I will walk by you

01:25:02   in the keynote line at 9.30 a.m.

01:25:05   - Yes, you will.

01:25:06   - When I have just woken up,

01:25:07   and I'll have a fresh cup of coffee,

01:25:09   which you don't like anyway.

01:25:10   Maybe I'll walk by with like a fresh, I don't know,

01:25:11   vodka or whatever you drink.

01:25:13   - 9.30?

01:25:14   - I don't know, it's something to make you feel jealous.

01:25:16   - How about an orange juice?

01:25:17   - That's what the alt conf people do.

01:25:19   The people who don't go to the conference,

01:25:20   they just stay out until 5 a.m., wake up drunk,

01:25:24   like yep, WWDC.

01:25:25   - Yeah, they can stream the keynote live at 10 a.m.

01:25:29   when they have just woken up for that purpose

01:25:31   and not having woken up at like 5.30 to go get online.

01:25:35   So that's what will happen.

01:25:36   You will do the homework for the rest of us

01:25:39   by going to the conference and going to the sessions.

01:25:42   And that's it.

01:25:43   I would feel bad if I get a ticket and you don't.

01:25:48   - Oh, and ditto.

01:25:50   I would feel guilty if I got a ticket and you didn't

01:25:52   because you could make a very reasonable argument

01:25:54   that you deserve it more, and I'm giving air quotes here.

01:25:56   But I mean, you could make a very valid argument

01:26:00   that you are actively developing iOS apps,

01:26:02   so you should have the ticket more than I should.

01:26:05   - Yeah, but I was talking to our friend

01:26:07   underscore David Smith about this.

01:26:09   How much more value do you get out of being there in person

01:26:13   than if you just watch the sessions

01:26:15   as they livestream and do that?

01:26:17   And so the biggest value is,

01:26:19   there's some socialization aspects of seeing people

01:26:22   in the conference center and the various

01:26:24   like spontaneous meetings you have there.

01:26:27   Academically the biggest value is probably the labs.

01:26:30   There are some sessions that are not livestreamed or videoed

01:26:33   like the lunchtime sessions are usually

01:26:35   not released on video.

01:26:36   And the videos also, the videos edit out

01:26:39   any periods of applause or laughter

01:26:42   and usually in the videos,

01:26:43   usually you can't see the presenter.

01:26:45   It only shows like it's just video of the slides

01:26:48   and any demos that take place.

01:26:50   So you do miss a lot of like the nuance of the presentation

01:26:54   but for the most part,

01:26:56   you're missing the socialization and the labs.

01:27:00   And I have had very good experiences in the labs so far.

01:27:04   However, this year I don't really have

01:27:07   any really big pressing questions I have

01:27:09   for the lab right now.

01:27:10   - Well, you wanna know how to make overcast

01:27:12   for the new Apple TV, right?

01:27:14   (laughing)

01:27:15   - Yeah, yeah, we'll see if that's a thing.

01:27:17   But yeah, in reality, if I get a ticket,

01:27:21   I'll be very happy.

01:27:22   I will use it as much as I possibly can use a ticket.

01:27:25   If I don't get a ticket, I will be bummed,

01:27:29   but I will still have a really good week.

01:27:33   But it is kind of inconvenient if you go with

01:27:37   a group of friends or coworkers every year.

01:27:40   It is really awkward that ever since demand started

01:27:45   really outstripping supply a couple years ago,

01:27:47   now you have these split crews where you have like,

01:27:51   oh well, only one of us got in.

01:27:53   Or everyone got in except that one guy

01:27:55   or something like that.

01:27:55   It certainly causes social pressures

01:27:59   and weird things, I think.

01:28:01   This is where it pays off to be antisocial

01:28:03   because us antisocial introverts are in our element

01:28:07   when we are not in a group.

01:28:08   Oh, I guess I have to splinter off on my own

01:28:11   and go through a series of sessions all by myself

01:28:13   and not talk to anybody.

01:28:14   - Oh. - That's paradise.

01:28:16   - Well, and you were great

01:28:17   'cause you would always go to like the Mac only sessions

01:28:19   that nobody else went to.

01:28:21   - I know, like there's nobody in those rooms anymore.

01:28:23   It's just me and a bunch of lonely Mac developers.

01:28:26   Yeah, no, those are fun.

01:28:27   And you'd be like the not well populated ones are great.

01:28:31   you'd be sitting there and Craig Federico would come in

01:28:33   and sit two seats over to you, you know, like just,

01:28:35   hey, it's just five people here listening to this talk

01:28:38   about some Mac framework that no one cares about

01:28:40   because iOS is the new hotness, right?

01:28:42   - Yeah, I will, I think it's important to point out though

01:28:46   that for the last couple of years,

01:28:48   I feel like the three of us have spent a fair bit of time

01:28:52   critiquing and really complaining

01:28:54   about the WWDC ticket process.

01:28:56   And granted, we're not all bitter right now

01:28:59   because we don't know if we're getting tickets or not.

01:29:02   But I think this is probably as good a process

01:29:05   as they can really get for a situation

01:29:07   where, like Marco said, demand desperately

01:29:10   outweighs the supply.

01:29:13   - Well, there was the rumor about them using a bigger venue.

01:29:16   Do you remember that?

01:29:17   Like, oh, they're gonna use north and south and not west,

01:29:19   and therefore the supply will be slightly increased,

01:29:22   and that turns out not to be the case,

01:29:24   as far as we know, right?

01:29:25   - That's correct.

01:29:27   I mean, that would be good,

01:29:28   but that would potentially change the feeling of the show.

01:29:33   You know, I don't, I feel like I'm coming across

01:29:36   a little snobby and get off my lawn and you know what, oh well.

01:29:38   But you know, part of the magic of WWDC is

01:29:42   that it's the right amount of people, I think,

01:29:46   so that when you have, like when we go,

01:29:49   I know, I personally know maybe 50 people there,

01:29:53   generally speaking, and it's not unreasonable or rare

01:29:57   for me to see most of those 50 people in and out of the sessions throughout the day. And

01:30:01   if it's, if the conference was 10 times bigger just for argument's sake, then I may not see

01:30:06   those people. And just like you've been saying, Marco, you know, part of the beauty of WWDC

01:30:10   is those impromptu conversations that you have with friends that you do and don't know

01:30:14   in the halls in between sessions. And so, I don't know, I'm sure it would probably be

01:30:19   for the greater good if it was bigger, but it would definitely feel different if it was

01:30:23   bigger.

01:30:24   - Yeah, I mean, ultimately it's what you make of it.

01:30:28   And if you go, it's such a big community now

01:30:33   that anything that any of us say about it

01:30:37   is not representative of the whole.

01:30:39   There's so many people who are iOS developers.

01:30:42   There are so many people there who we don't know,

01:30:46   who don't know us, who aren't,

01:30:48   it isn't just one big community.

01:30:50   It's a bunch of small communities.

01:30:52   So if you go and seek out a certain group or your friends

01:30:57   or people you wanna talk to or have business discussions

01:31:01   with or whatever, you can find them.

01:31:03   If you're looking around randomly, like in front of Moscone,

01:31:07   you're looking for somebody in particular,

01:31:09   you're gonna have a hard time with it.

01:31:10   But that's true whether you get in or not,

01:31:12   that's true whether, you know,

01:31:12   how many people are there or not.

01:31:14   Really, I think it's just, you know,

01:31:15   it's what you make of it.

01:31:17   - Yeah. - That made no sense.

01:31:19   Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week,

01:31:21   Automatic, Squarespace, and Backblaze,

01:31:23   and we will see you next week.

01:31:25   (upbeat music)

01:31:28   Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin

01:31:33   'Cause it was accidental (accidental)

01:31:35   Oh, it was accidental (accidental)

01:31:38   John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:31:43   'Cause it was accidental (accidental)

01:31:46   Oh, it was accidental (accidental)

01:31:49   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:31:54   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:31:58   @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:32:03   So that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:32:07   Auntie Marco Armin

01:32:10   S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A Syracuse

01:32:15   It's accidental

01:32:18   They didn't mean to

01:32:20   Accidental

01:32:23   ♪ Tech podcast so long ♪

01:32:26   - So in the last week,

01:32:30   Apple has done all this crazy stuff

01:32:33   with the watch and try-ons

01:32:35   and we're all talking about bands.

01:32:36   Meanwhile, they also like solved photos.

01:32:40   - Did they?

01:32:40   - And that's like the least paid attention to.

01:32:43   - They released photos, let's just say that.

01:32:44   Did they solve photos?

01:32:46   - I haven't used it that heavily yet.

01:32:48   However, it did import my whole library

01:32:50   and it seems amazing.

01:32:51   - We're not supposed to be talking about it now.

01:32:53   I'm gonna save it for next week.

01:32:54   - All right, all right.

01:32:55   I just think it's funny, like, photos,

01:32:57   it sucks, it's like this massive challenge,

01:33:00   this big problem of no one's done this really right yet.

01:33:04   And it looks like Apple might have done exactly that

01:33:06   and released it this week, and almost nobody noticed.

01:33:10   - Well, there was a lot of reviews about it.

01:33:11   There were a lot of previews for it.

01:33:13   I think Apple was good about, you know,

01:33:15   with the public beta of it

01:33:16   and the beta of iCloud Photo Library,

01:33:18   and then when it actually came out,

01:33:20   like, I felt like it was pretty well covered,

01:33:22   but it is one of those topics that we'll keep

01:33:24   because this is like a long-term thing.

01:33:26   And we've talked about photos forever

01:33:27   and we've talked about photos

01:33:29   and the features that it provides.

01:33:30   And now it's just down to like, okay, the thing came out,

01:33:32   how does it work?

01:33:33   And I think we'll save that for next week

01:33:35   'cause I will have many things to say about it.

01:33:37   And I made these nice notes

01:33:38   and we'll just leave them in there.

01:33:40   What is this thing, the draft generator thing?

01:33:46   - All right, this may or may not make it into the final show

01:33:48   'cause it's kind of boring,

01:33:49   But I was curious your input from the two of you.

01:33:53   So I wrote recently a draft generator for my site.

01:33:58   So the idea is when I write for my site on my primary computer, I have an instance of

01:34:05   Node running, basically an instance of my entire site running on my local computer.

01:34:09   So I'll write a bit, I'll go to Safari, I'll refresh the page, see how it looks.

01:34:14   But occasionally, not often, but occasionally I will be writing a blog post on my iPad or

01:34:19   on Aaron's computer or something else that I can't even think of.

01:34:24   And I want to be able to preview exactly how this markdown will look rendered on the site.

01:34:34   So I wrote this draft generator, which all it is is a big, huge text area and a button

01:34:40   that says "Render Draft."

01:34:41   So you paste your markdown in the big text area, you hit the render draft button, and

01:34:46   it will render the draft.

01:34:47   And it looks, at a glance, like it's a real post.

01:34:51   Now because it looks like a real post, I don't necessarily want to make this draft generator

01:34:59   public in that I don't want anyone to be able to just slam some markdown onto my site and

01:35:06   make it look like I wrote something.

01:35:08   Am I being paranoid?

01:35:09   Absolutely.

01:35:10   me here. So what do I do to prevent malicious use for something that really is fairly inane

01:35:18   to begin with? What I've chosen to do is use a semi-peculiar URL that I know I'll remember,

01:35:25   but I don't think people would necessarily stumble on. So it's, you know, the textbook

01:35:31   Security by Obscurity. But I was curious, I don't want to do like a full-on auth system

01:35:37   because it's just a draft. Who cares? But what—

01:35:39   - You don't need a full on, just do basic auth, it's fine.

01:35:42   - Yeah, that's what I do online.

01:35:44   - I mean, it's better than nothing, right?

01:35:46   - Well, but why bother?

01:35:47   Because it's--

01:35:48   - 'Cause basic auth is better than security

01:35:50   through obscurity, slightly, but you know,

01:35:53   he's not even using HTTPS, so like, whatever,

01:35:55   but you know, it's still better than like,

01:35:58   they won't guess my URL.

01:36:00   - And I was just curious if you guys had any more

01:36:03   interesting and more clever and less obvious ideas.

01:36:06   - You could do real auth, I mean,

01:36:08   you wrote the code for the site,

01:36:09   you could do real auth on it too.

01:36:10   Like that's a fun little exercise if you wanna do that.

01:36:14   But basic auth is like,

01:36:15   you don't have to write the code for it,

01:36:16   just let the lousy browser do the thing that it does.

01:36:19   - Yeah, I mean, basic auth with HTTPS

01:36:21   is like really no worse than a lot of systems out there.

01:36:25   - Well, you know, it's fun to do it yourself.

01:36:26   But like, I think the main thing I was thinking of,

01:36:29   I know you're saying it's like different computers

01:36:30   is the use case here,

01:36:31   but this is the type of thing that I do offline.

01:36:33   Like my hypercritical posting system

01:36:36   is I write in BB Edit and next to the BB Edit window

01:36:39   that I'm writing in, I have a real-time live preview

01:36:41   with my site template showing it exactly how it will look

01:36:44   in context on my site through the magic

01:36:45   of BB Edit's preview filters and templates

01:36:48   and all the other crazy ass features that BB Edit has.

01:36:51   It lets me, I don't have to click a button to render draft.

01:36:53   As I'm typing, I see exactly what it's going to look like

01:36:56   right next to where I'm typing in real time.

01:36:58   - Right, and that's basically what I'm doing

01:37:01   99% of the time.

01:37:02   It's not real time, I have to go and hit refresh,

01:37:05   But that's basically what it is.

01:37:07   But what had happened was I'd written the Apple Watch post,

01:37:11   I believe on my iPad if memory serves.

01:37:13   And I had done my best to guess at what it would look like

01:37:18   by just looking at a generic markdown preview.

01:37:22   But as it turns out,

01:37:23   there were a couple of minor formatting issues here and there

01:37:25   that I really wanted to tweak,

01:37:26   including an image that went wrong.

01:37:28   And so I really wanna be able to see it on the site.

01:37:32   And so again, what I, you know,

01:37:34   I figure, well, I'll just eat the markdown,

01:37:35   run it through the rendering pipeline, and call it a day.

01:37:39   But even though I don't think anyone would likely

01:37:43   do anything nefarious with this, it's still,

01:37:45   I feel a little exposed by having it out there.

01:37:48   And I guess basic auth is really the right answer,

01:37:50   and God knows there's probably,

01:37:52   if it's not built into node,

01:37:53   there's probably some 300,000 line package

01:37:56   I could get from MPM that'll solve this problem for me.

01:37:59   But I don't know.

01:38:00   - You could just read the header,

01:38:01   and it's like, it's pretty simple.

01:38:03   If you need to do it yourself, it's not that hard.

01:38:05   - That's true.

01:38:06   I don't know, just, I was curious if you guys

01:38:09   had any clever ideas or if you thought I was being insane

01:38:12   for even trying to put this behind off.

01:38:15   - My question is, when the hell did the navigation item

01:38:17   in your toolbar change to creep?

01:38:20   - It's always been there.

01:38:21   - I don't like that.

01:38:23   - Also, I keep crashing your site.

01:38:25   - Yeah, don't type nothing in the field

01:38:26   and hit render to navigate a JavaScript error.

01:38:28   It's the first thing I did.

01:38:29   - Yeah, I can't even get anything to render.

01:38:32   But that's part of the problem is that you probably are missing metadata. See, and this was designed only for me, so

01:38:39   you're probably missing a bunch of metadata that I know to include, but nobody else would.

01:38:45   Let's get back to creep. Why is that item called creep?

01:38:48   You're trying to say that by anyone wanting to know about anything that you do, that is creepy,

01:38:53   therefore click the creep button to find out what podcasts you've appeared on. That's not creepy.

01:38:57   I just, I wanted something more interesting than

01:39:00   Appearances did you click the link to just see what the slug is yeah?

01:39:03   I don't start it's not stalking you want people listen to you on podcast

01:39:07   I like you how dare you find out what podcasts in the mind listen to them you want that to happen

01:39:11   That's why you're on podcasts and now for a regularly scheduled segment of making fun of Casey's website implementation details yes

01:39:17   Faith would not put creep as one of the main now items guaranteed

01:39:25   That's probably I see I think it's tongue-in-cheek and funny

01:39:28   But and I can see what you're saying that maybe that doesn't come across exactly how I'm you're just just undercutting yourself Casey

01:39:34   We're here to tell you that when you should not be have we met of course I am this is what I do

01:39:38   You and Steve on the podcast to see who can undercut

01:39:43   Themselves the most yes, I think that's the plan at some point

01:39:46   I think you have him beat well of course that will make you feel better and

01:39:50   Goodness well the chat room is

01:39:57   somewhat coming to my defense but but your logic is is is

01:40:01   Sound for sure. It is an expression of your personality

01:40:05   I'll give you that but I feel like this like you don't need to be you don't need to be

01:40:08   self deprecating you don't need to be sabotaging yourself or like

01:40:13   You should be promoting yourself. This site is all about you. It's Casey list calm for crying out loud

01:40:18   It should be all about the awesome things that the Casey list does and how awesome they are

01:40:22   But what would you use if not?

01:40:25   Appearances which not only is a long word, but it's what everyone uses and I want it to be slightly original. I don't know I mean

01:40:32   Lots of options there like you just I have my appearances off of my about page

01:40:37   I don't have it as a top-level item

01:40:38   But I don't I would say there's nothing wrong with the word appearances because like it like if that's what I'm looking for

01:40:44   I would never think to click on a link that says creep

01:40:47   That's an interesting point

01:40:49   Yeah

01:40:49   I wouldn't know what that was going to be is like am I going to see a creep is to say that I am a

01:40:53   I'm a creep, I click from there, and yeah.

01:40:55   It's like hamburger navigation.

01:40:57   - Is that a verb?

01:40:58   It's like, do I want to creep right now?

01:41:00   - It is, it is meant as a verb, actually,

01:41:03   all kidding aside.

01:41:04   You know, it's like the kids these days say.

01:41:05   - But that's like, it's like creeping forward.

01:41:07   It's like, I don't know that I would necessarily--

01:41:10   - No, the kids will, I think the kids will get

01:41:11   what the creep is, I got what it was about too,

01:41:13   but maybe it's only because I know Casey,

01:41:15   and I know what must be buried under that link, but.

01:41:18   - Actually, T-T-E-Pass, I probably butchered that,

01:41:22   said elsewhere, that's not bad. Appearances, I think, is more direct, but

01:41:27   elsewhere isn't a bad option. Appearances? Like, you just did a

01:41:30   conference talk. Like, that's an appearance. Called appearances. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I just...

01:41:36   Plus, I don't think it looks good if... I think I did try that at some point. I

01:41:39   thought it was just way too long. Yeah, you might have to look for a

01:41:43   shorter word to go to the source or something. You need to do AB Tetsis, obviously, to see, you know.

01:41:48   There's probably a node package for that. We put pictures of

01:41:51   celebrities in unflattering poses. Do people click on that more or less than the creep

01:41:55   page? Manifestation. I'm looking at the thesaurus

01:41:59   for appearance. Speaking of creep and manifestation, I have

01:42:05   been shopping for home improvement things online. I've been shopping for lamps, outdoor

01:42:10   lamps online. Not shopping, but just like searching and everything. And now every web

01:42:15   page I go to is covered with the same 900 pictures of lamps that I've looked at.

01:42:21   Like I don't understand, like I never knew how pervasive whatever it is this ad network

01:42:25   that has my number now, it's like on every site.

01:42:28   I'm like here too?

01:42:29   Seriously the lamps?

01:42:30   They're here again?

01:42:31   They're everywhere!

01:42:32   It is unbelievable.

01:42:33   And it's the same lamps.

01:42:34   I'm like I've already looked at them it's just like, you know, I'm just gonna have to

01:42:38   enable ad blocker or something like that.

01:42:40   Now I understand the people who, you know, it's like they're ugly.

01:42:43   I liked it better when I was being randomly advertised to

01:42:45   with whatever they were doing before.

01:42:47   I guess it still beats the terrible line drawings

01:42:50   of one weird trick, fat belly business things.

01:42:54   I really hate those.

01:42:55   But the lamps are close second.

01:42:58   - Man, the web sucks these days.

01:43:00   (laughing)

01:43:01   Oh, it's so bad.

01:43:03   All this stuff, it just seems like everyone's

01:43:05   in such desperation to try to increase their ad prices

01:43:09   and their returns.

01:43:10   and web pages just look awful to me now.

01:43:14   Like so many pages I go to now,

01:43:16   there's very few holdouts that still have like tasteful,

01:43:21   reasonable layouts and don't have those like,

01:43:24   those awful clickbait ads on them and everything.

01:43:26   It's really sad.

01:43:27   - Yeah, I just wanna see like ads,

01:43:28   show me like ads for like Asus laptops and like SSDs.

01:43:32   Like I'm willing to see ads for like some,

01:43:35   I don't click on them, but I look at them

01:43:36   and sometimes they're like,

01:43:37   oh yeah, maybe our SSDs are getting cheaper.

01:43:39   Like the ads work in that way,

01:43:41   but I know that I've been searching for lamps,

01:43:43   but that doesn't mean that's it, your whole world is lamps.

01:43:46   How long is this gonna last?

01:43:46   For the next three years of my life?

01:43:48   Eventually I'm gonna buy some lamps and then I will be done.

01:43:51   But these ads will still be like lamp, lamp,

01:43:52   everywhere I go.

01:43:53   It is just unbelievably pervasive.

01:43:57   I never would have called,

01:43:59   like I don't even know which sites I'm going to,

01:44:00   but it's like every site I go to,

01:44:01   every link I tap in like Twitter or something, lamps.

01:44:04   - So creepy. - Yeah.

01:44:06   - Speaking of creep.

01:44:07   - I've never in the past been tempted

01:44:09   to install an ad blocker.

01:44:11   Modern web pages are getting so bad

01:44:14   and modern ads are getting even more and more intrusive.

01:44:16   There's so many more hover over, pop over kind of things now

01:44:20   that it loads the page for two or three seconds

01:44:23   then it pops over a thing over the content

01:44:25   and you have to dismiss it.

01:44:26   - Good luck hitting the little X with your finger.

01:44:29   - Yeah, right.

01:44:30   - Because anything that is not the X

01:44:31   is I want to go to the ad's website.

01:44:34   - Yeah, exactly.

01:44:34   I mean, it's getting so bad now.

01:44:37   It's even sites that used to have higher standards

01:44:42   now for whatever reason, whether it's good reasons or not,

01:44:45   they don't or they can't maintain those same standards.

01:44:48   And so otherwise good sites now have these

01:44:52   even worse ads on them and it's getting so horrible.

01:44:56   Like I don't like the idea of running an ad blocker

01:45:00   but I've never been closer to doing it than I am now

01:45:03   just because it is really getting difficult to read the web.

01:45:07   - I don't know, it's weird because I write software

01:45:11   for the web for a living, but when I search for Lamps

01:45:15   and find Lamps all over every ad-enabled website

01:45:19   I ever visit, it creeps me out.

01:45:21   God, does it creep me out.

01:45:23   - Yeah.

01:45:24   - It's weird.

01:45:24   And now I'm thinking even more that I need to change

01:45:27   the word creep on my header.

01:45:29   What about sightings?

01:45:31   - Sightings.

01:45:32   - It doesn't really work for audio,

01:45:33   which most of your appearances are.

01:45:35   - Oh, good point. - You're not Bigfoot.

01:45:38   - Wow. (laughs)

01:45:39   - There you go, I was gonna go with Sasquatch,

01:45:42   go with Loch Ness, sightings, so on.

01:45:43   - What you want is a word that is descriptive,

01:45:46   but that is not arrogant or pompous sounding.

01:45:49   - How about it works?

01:45:50   That is arrogant and pompous sounding,

01:45:54   that's my best arrogant and pompous sounding.

01:45:56   - I like Elsewhere because it is not arrogant

01:45:58   and pompous sounding.

01:45:59   Appearances is a little bit on the bad side of that.

01:46:03   - It's not, it's accurate.

01:46:05   He just gave a conference talk

01:46:06   that is literally an appearance.

01:46:08   - Yeah, but like sightings is more arrogant,

01:46:12   'cause sightings is like other people have done this for me,

01:46:14   other people have spotted me in these places, you know?

01:46:17   Whereas like appearance is like here's where I've been

01:46:20   and people have looked at me,

01:46:21   and elsewhere is just here's other things I have done.

01:46:25   - Yeah, although as Think Diff is pointing out in the chat,

01:46:28   the title of the page's appearances coincidentally.

01:46:31   But I wanted a different word in the header and I think elsewhere might be the winner.

01:46:36   Now the problem is if we leave this in the show, by the time everyone goes and looks

01:46:39   at my website they're going to be like, "What are they talking about?

01:46:41   It already says elsewhere."

01:46:43   Or whatever the case may be.

01:46:45   But that's all right.

01:46:48   you