ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I think it's a bad reason for a couple of reasons.

00:00:04 ◼   ► Our first bit of follow up, John, it's about pronunciation so you're in charge of it.

00:00:08 ◼   ► Well I don't know why that's the case, but I did put this in there.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Dan from Twitter wrote us to tell us the correct pronunciation of MKBHD's name.

00:00:17 ◼   ► It is apparently Marquez, not Marcus or any other thing that we tried to mumble our way

00:00:22 ◼   ► through in the last show.

00:00:23 ◼   ► See, I'm annoyed by this because back when we first talked about him and his video when

00:00:28 ◼   ► when he got the alleged iPhone 6 screen cover

00:00:31 ◼   ► with the possible sapphire.

00:00:33 ◼   ► I guessed that it would have been pronounced Marquez,

00:00:36 ◼   ► and so I said Marquez,

00:00:38 ◼   ► and I heard from a few people saying, "That's wrong."

00:00:40 ◼   ► So that's why I didn't try to pronounce it that way again.

00:00:43 ◼   ► - We don't know if this is right either.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Anyone can type anything into a box on the web,

00:00:47 ◼   ► but I believe this person.

00:00:48 ◼   ► His typing seemed authentic.

00:00:50 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:53 ◼   ► - I still would like to have a video of Marquez

00:00:55 ◼   ► saying his own name just so I can hear it from him.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Yep, that would be good. There probably are a thousand hours of that video, but we don't know because we don't watch his channel.

00:01:03 ◼   ► But he always calls himself MKBHD.

00:01:05 ◼   ► Wait, that's what he calls himself like in his own videos?

00:01:07 ◼   ► Yeah, he says, "Hey guys, this is MKBHD." And then he like so--

00:01:10 ◼   ► Really?

00:01:11 ◼   ► Yeah, that's the first place I looked for pronunciation assistance.

00:01:14 ◼   ► It's like Madonna, but way longer.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Real-time follow-up from Underscore, who is my favorite person to have in the chat because he is like our entire

00:01:21 ◼   ► research squad in one character, which is Underscore. Anyway,

00:01:26 ◼   ► He has found a link to Marquez pronouncing his name and it's a video so I haven't listened to it

00:01:32 ◼   ► But he is confirmed that it is indeed Marquez. My name is Marquez Brownlee

00:01:35 ◼   ► Skylake no sooner we talked about

00:01:38 ◼   ► Skylake maybe come you know

00:01:41 ◼   ► Maybe maybe Apple won't even use broad well because sky like is coming so soon broadwell was delayed because they had a lot of trouble

00:01:46 ◼   ► With the 14 nanometer process sky like is a new architecture, but on the same process

00:01:50 ◼   ► So maybe do this Apple just get right to that and now just before the show I got a link to an article

00:01:56 ◼   ► that

00:01:57 ◼   ► Post some rumors about skylake possibly being delayed now. It's from digitimes

00:02:02 ◼   ► So take it with a grain of salt, but supposedly they're delaying it until August

00:02:06 ◼   ► And the article that we linked to here from IT world

00:02:11 ◼   ► I think tries to say that they're delaying it just to space out their products not for any particular reason like it would be ready

00:02:18 ◼   ► But they want to space it out to give room for broadwell to sell

00:02:20 ◼   ► I don't know what to think but anyway betting on Intel delaying something is always a safe bet

00:02:26 ◼   ► Well, the law of Intel delays and release dates is that every Intel release will be

00:02:32 ◼   ► late except for the one that comes right after whatever you buy.

00:02:36 ◼   ► Anyway, as a question of marketness, but a follow-up, this is not a definitive thing.

00:02:40 ◼   ► It is just a link to a rumor from Digitime, so we'll see how it goes.

00:02:44 ◼   ► But I'm thinking that Apple's going to ship Broadmell machines no matter what.

00:02:49 ◼   ► Even if Skylake was available for sale now, I think it's too late.

00:02:53 ◼   ► already got the Broadmell machines designed, ready, manufacturing, like, they're, I think

00:02:57 ◼   ► they're just gonna, you know, know what, they're gonna ship no matter what.

00:03:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I think you're right. It, now that, like, you know, having Skylake come so soon

00:03:04 ◼   ► after Broadmell was already, like, pretty suspicious, and, and so now, if there's, if

00:03:09 ◼   ► there's any hint that it might actually be delayed, that's extremely plausible. I agree,

00:03:14 ◼   ► I think we're gonna see Broadmell this summer on the 15th, and that'll be that, and we'll

00:03:18 ◼   ► see Skylake next year. And we also heard some interesting information that possibly explains

00:03:24 ◼   ► limitations of the new MacBook. So one thing I had complained about initially was that

00:03:30 ◼   ► it only has 8 gigs of RAM that's not configurable to anything higher. We heard from a number

00:03:35 ◼   ► of people and these are publicly documented on Intel's site and stuff that the Broadwell

00:03:40 ◼   ► Core M chipset that is used in the new MacBook to get that low power 5 watt fanless design,

00:03:47 ◼   ► the max RAM it supports is eight gigs.

00:03:50 ◼   ► So that's it, like there's just,

00:03:53 ◼   ► there's no more RAM that the chipset can support.

00:03:55 ◼   ► So that's why eight gigs is what it is.

00:03:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, I tried to look that up

00:03:58 ◼   ► rather than just taking these people's word for it.

00:04:00 ◼   ► If you go to Intel's site, it says the limit is 16

00:04:02 ◼   ► and you can see machines with 16 gigs

00:04:04 ◼   ► with the same processor.

00:04:06 ◼   ► What the person who wrote to us under the name K period says

00:04:11 ◼   ► is that the limit, yeah, you can put 16 on it,

00:04:13 ◼   ► Intel site says 16, but if you want the RAM to be soldered

00:04:17 ◼   ► the circuit board, not like a DIMM or anything like that, that the Core RAM only has two

00:04:21 ◼   ► channels and it's 4 gigs per channel for RAM that's soldered onto the board and thus the

00:04:25 ◼   ► limit of 8.

00:04:26 ◼   ► And on Intel's site it did say, you know, maximum RAM, and then it said in parentheses

00:04:30 ◼   ► depending on type.

00:04:31 ◼   ► I could not dig my way to whatever document gives the more verbose explanation, yeah,

00:04:35 ◼   ► depending on type, what does that mean?

00:04:36 ◼   ► Like that leads me to believe maybe yeah, if you have DIMMs you can use 16, but if you

00:04:40 ◼   ► have soldered to the board you're limited to 8.

00:04:42 ◼   ► I'm inclined to believe these people, I just couldn't find the documentation to back it

00:04:44 ◼   ► up.

00:04:45 ◼   ► makes sense, you know, like this is the smallest of the small low-powered, you know, chipsets

00:04:50 ◼   ► for laptops and Apple definitely is soldering their RAM to a board and we do see machines

00:04:55 ◼   ► out there with 16 with the same chip, but maybe they're not soldering it to the board.

00:04:58 ◼   ► So it's entirely plausible, makes sense to me.

00:05:01 ◼   ► Yeah, and you know, looking at it from Intel's point of view, this is a really low-end chip.

00:05:06 ◼   ► I mean, it's going in some really like, you know, sexy laptops that we all want, but the

00:05:11 ◼   ► The reality is these are low end parts.

00:05:13 ◼   ► These are slow, they're very, very low power.

00:05:16 ◼   ► That's why they're slow.

00:05:17 ◼   ► They have to be really low power.

00:05:19 ◼   ► They're going into these very physically small designs

00:05:21 ◼   ► with very few chips.

00:05:23 ◼   ► And this leads us very well into our next follow up point

00:05:26 ◼   ► on this, which is, John, you've been begging

00:05:29 ◼   ► for a long time, months, years,

00:05:33 ◼   ► on somebody to give you a good reason

00:05:36 ◼   ► why there is only one USB port on this machine.

00:05:39 ◼   ► - Let me stop you there because this is old.

00:05:41 ◼   ► This is all a follow-up and I don't consider it.

00:05:43 ◼   ► You can go continue to explain it,

00:05:44 ◼   ► but I've seen this before.

00:05:45 ◼   ► And like I said, I gotta see the technical docs.

00:05:48 ◼   ► I gotta see the sourcing.

00:05:49 ◼   ► Otherwise it's just, you know, anyway, go on.

00:05:52 ◼   ► - Well, so we got two possible explanations here.

00:05:56 ◼   ► The first one, which I think is a little bit less solid,

00:05:59 ◼   ► is from Chris Jones, who says that the PCH,

00:06:04 ◼   ► which is what I think that used to be called

00:06:05 ◼   ► the Southbridge, the platform controller hub

00:06:08 ◼   ► or whatever it's called,

00:06:09 ◼   ► that's the chip on the motherboard

00:06:10 ◼   ► those that don't know, that controls most of the IO stuff, especially the slower IO

00:06:15 ◼   ► stuff. So not like RAM and GPUs, which is all I believe now directly controlled by the

00:06:19 ◼   ► CPU and the entire lineup, but now it's like USB stuff basically. And so the PCH integrated

00:06:25 ◼   ► into this chipset by Intel provides four USB 3 connections. A typical MacBook uses one

00:06:32 ◼   ► USB connection internally for Bluetooth, one for the keyboard and trackpad, and one for

00:06:36 ◼   ► with a FaceTime camera, leaving one connection left

00:06:39 ◼   ► for the USB Type-C port.

00:06:41 ◼   ► And for Apple to add more ports,

00:06:43 ◼   ► if they wanted them to be USB 3,

00:06:45 ◼   ► would require them to add a separate USB controller,

00:06:48 ◼   ► which should be another chip on the board.

00:06:50 ◼   ► And so that costs board space, that costs power,

00:06:53 ◼   ► that costs money.

00:06:54 ◼   ► So all these costs to that,

00:06:56 ◼   ► they probably chose not to do it.

00:06:58 ◼   ► Now, this might be a little bit unreliable of a reason

00:07:02 ◼   ► because, and as Chris points out,

00:07:06 ◼   ► the USB 2.0 ports are counted separately.

00:07:09 ◼   ► And I checked on my MacBook Pro,

00:07:11 ◼   ► which is granted three years old,

00:07:13 ◼   ► but I checked on that and the keyboard

00:07:16 ◼   ► and Bluetooth controller are plugged

00:07:18 ◼   ► into the USB 2.0 bus on mine.

00:07:21 ◼   ► - That's what I was gonna get at.

00:07:22 ◼   ► I remember back in the day,

00:07:23 ◼   ► I think some internal components on PowerBooks then

00:07:26 ◼   ► were on the ADB.

00:07:28 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:07:29 ◼   ► - They're gonna use the smallest,

00:07:30 ◼   ► lowest cost connection possible for the internal component.

00:07:34 ◼   ► So why does the track need USB 3 versus USB 2?

00:07:38 ◼   ► You know, and same thing for a 480p camera.

00:07:41 ◼   ► So that's why, this is kind of like,

00:07:44 ◼   ► you have to use connections for these things.

00:07:45 ◼   ► You can't, like, it just doesn't make sense to me.

00:07:47 ◼   ► Like, why would you use USB 3 connection for the camera?

00:07:52 ◼   ► Right?

00:07:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the keyboard too.

00:07:55 ◼   ► I mean, like, yeah, there's not--

00:07:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, especially the keyboard.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Like, there's not a high bandwidth of device.

00:07:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this is a good theory.

00:08:01 ◼   ► I'm not sure that it applies here though.

00:08:04 ◼   ► But the better reason-

00:08:05 ◼   ► - I think this is worse, but go on.

00:08:07 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:08:07 ◼   ► The better reason as pointed out by K period,

00:08:10 ◼   ► is that due to limitations of the integrated Intel GPU

00:08:15 ◼   ► in this fanless low power chipset,

00:08:17 ◼   ► it is not possible to drive two external displays

00:08:21 ◼   ► at very high resolutions along with the internal panel.

00:08:23 ◼   ► So anything I believe past 1080p,

00:08:26 ◼   ► it's considered a high resolution.

00:08:28 ◼   ► It can't drive two externals.

00:08:29 ◼   ► It can only do one external at those resolutions

00:08:32 ◼   ► plus the built-in panel.

00:08:33 ◼   ► And so if there are multiple USB-C ports,

00:08:36 ◼   ► and assuming you could plug a display into a USB-C port,

00:08:40 ◼   ► then only one of them could reasonably drive a display.

00:08:43 ◼   ► And so there would be this weird situation

00:08:45 ◼   ► where you'd have these two identical ports,

00:08:47 ◼   ► only one of which can drive a high resolution display,

00:08:49 ◼   ► but both of which possibly might be able

00:08:51 ◼   ► to drive low resolution, it'd be weird.

00:08:53 ◼   ► So that I think is a pretty good reason.

00:08:55 ◼   ► - I think it's a bad reason for a couple of reasons.

00:08:58 ◼   ► One, we already established when we were trying to figure

00:09:00 ◼   ► out if it had mirroring, remember, like,

00:09:01 ◼   ► can it do mirroring or can it do extended display and I think you looked it up and said oh it says

00:09:05 ◼   ► right here on the specs page it has mirroring and also dual display dual meaning two this machine

00:09:11 ◼   ► supports two displays that's what the Apple specs say that's what the machine does if you have it

00:09:15 ◼   ► with two identical ports you plug a monitor into one then you get a second monitor and you plug

00:09:18 ◼   ► into the second one you're like what the hell the second monitor isn't working it only supports two

00:09:21 ◼   ► displays it says it right there on the spec page there's no ambiguity would you be like enraged or

00:09:26 ◼   ► confused by the fact that you can't support three displays the machine only supports two for years

00:09:30 ◼   ► "Laptops only support two displays."

00:09:32 ◼   ► It's not like you just keep plugging displays

00:09:33 ◼   ► in willy-nilly.

00:09:34 ◼   ► It only supports two displays.

00:09:36 ◼   ► Having another USB port puts 17 USB ports in there.

00:09:39 ◼   ► People are like, "Now I can have 17 displays."

00:09:40 ◼   ► No, you gotta go to the text specs page.

00:09:42 ◼   ► Say, "How many displays can I drive from this thing?"

00:09:44 ◼   ► So that makes no sense to me.

00:09:46 ◼   ► Like the people would somehow be confused

00:09:47 ◼   ► or angry or disappointed that the machine

00:09:50 ◼   ► that clearly says supports dual displays

00:09:52 ◼   ► can only support dual displays.

00:09:54 ◼   ► - Well, okay, I disagree that that's a valid reason,

00:09:56 ◼   ► but I at least, we'll have to agree to disagree on this,

00:10:00 ◼   ► which is a phrase I hate.

00:10:01 ◼   ► - So what do you think?

00:10:02 ◼   ► Like they would say, well, we could put two USB ports

00:10:04 ◼   ► in this thing, but we can only support two displays,

00:10:07 ◼   ► so we better get rid of that port.

00:10:08 ◼   ► Like that makes sense to you?

00:10:09 ◼   ► That's the kind of reasoning you would support?

00:10:11 ◼   ► - Well, what I see here are a bunch of smaller reasons

00:10:14 ◼   ► that potentially if you add all these reasons up

00:10:18 ◼   ► might be enough justification.

00:10:19 ◼   ► And by the way, and we heard a theory from a few people

00:10:22 ◼   ► that I want to address, people saying that Apple

00:10:26 ◼   ► is artificially only giving one port,

00:10:28 ◼   ► That way they can sell an upgraded model next year

00:10:31 ◼   ► or whenever with two ports

00:10:32 ◼   ► and people will buy the upgraded model.

00:10:34 ◼   ► - What do you mean by upgraded?

00:10:35 ◼   ► Like just the next revision of the machine?

00:10:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:10:37 ◼   ► - That doesn't make any sense.

00:10:38 ◼   ► - Right, exactly.

00:10:39 ◼   ► We hear this theory a lot.

00:10:40 ◼   ► Whenever there's any limitation,

00:10:41 ◼   ► we usually hear from a handful of people like this

00:10:43 ◼   ► who are like, well, they're just artificially

00:10:45 ◼   ► keeping that down so they can release it next year

00:10:47 ◼   ► and have everybody upgrade.

00:10:48 ◼   ► And I don't think, I mean, I don't know how Apple works

00:10:52 ◼   ► internally with regard to decisions like that, but--

00:10:54 ◼   ► - That's not how any business works.

00:10:55 ◼   ► So it's like going to a sandwich shop,

00:10:56 ◼   ► Let's give them a little bit crappier sandwich today. So tomorrow we can sell them the better one

00:11:00 ◼   ► They're not gonna come back and you sell my product doesn't satisfy them. They're not gonna say

00:11:04 ◼   ► Well, I now I have to buy the new one next year

00:11:06 ◼   ► Like if you get a car and it's not a great car you maybe look at a different car maker next time you're gonna say

00:11:11 ◼   ► Damn it. They just did this all by the better Honda next year

00:11:14 ◼   ► No, you're just gonna buy a Honda if you get a product you get a product is not satisfactory

00:11:17 ◼   ► They're not an intentionally handicapping their products with the goal of we'll get them next time

00:11:23 ◼   ► that'll make them buy a new computer sooner.

00:11:25 ◼   ► It just doesn't make sense to me.

00:11:26 ◼   ► - Exactly, I mean there's so many reasons

00:11:28 ◼   ► why products have limitations in one generation,

00:11:31 ◼   ► in the next generation they're lifted,

00:11:33 ◼   ► or things are faster or better or whatever.

00:11:36 ◼   ► And usually it's regards to reasonable,

00:11:38 ◼   ► justifiable reasons like availability or costs

00:11:41 ◼   ► or things like that, or just not being feasible yet,

00:11:46 ◼   ► or having major trade-offs, major downsides.

00:11:49 ◼   ► So that's, I don't think any, and by the way,

00:11:52 ◼   ► Most people don't buy every generation of a product.

00:11:56 ◼   ► And most people don't follow things so closely

00:11:59 ◼   ► that they would even know.

00:12:00 ◼   ► Most of Apple's customers, if they buy this machine

00:12:02 ◼   ► and one comes out next year with two ports--

00:12:05 ◼   ► - They're not shopping for a computer then, they don't know.

00:12:06 ◼   ► - Right, they won't know until that computer dies

00:12:09 ◼   ► or gets too slow to be usable or the battery

00:12:11 ◼   ► starts wearing out really badly,

00:12:12 ◼   ► and they go in two or three years or more

00:12:15 ◼   ► and look at a new computer.

00:12:16 ◼   ► That's when they're gonna see what's available then,

00:12:18 ◼   ► which might be totally different.

00:12:19 ◼   ► - Usually much more, it's not like phones,

00:12:21 ◼   ► you're lucky they go every two years but some people feel like all of my

00:12:25 ◼   ► contracts over now I have this freedom period and whatever but max people just

00:12:29 ◼   ► use them it's you know I don't know what the upper it's like a lot of the max but

00:12:32 ◼   ► I think it's way longer than any other thing and certainly not one year I mean

00:12:37 ◼   ► even even Marco doesn't buy new max every year no I just said I'm using I'm

00:12:40 ◼   ► using a three-year-old MacBook Pro as well the iMac and the Mac Pro is that's

00:12:44 ◼   ► true I think that was a special case though before that I let my things last

00:12:47 ◼   ► it pretty long because I kept buying Mac pros John is your is your Mac Pro hit a

00:12:51 ◼   ► - Have you been in a decade yet or no?

00:12:53 ◼   ► - Well, seven years, it's hanging in there.

00:12:55 ◼   ► - God, that's a closer answer than I expected, if I'm honest.

00:12:58 ◼   ► - The funny thing is, so I took a trip last week to England

00:13:02 ◼   ► and I was using my laptop very heavily

00:13:04 ◼   ► and every time I used my laptop, I realized,

00:13:07 ◼   ► with the exception of the screen retention,

00:13:09 ◼   ► which I could get fixed for, I think, like $400,

00:13:12 ◼   ► somebody told me it would be about that, I don't know.

00:13:14 ◼   ► I'm probably not gonna get it fixed, probably not worth it,

00:13:16 ◼   ► but this machine I got was the base model, the 1999 model,

00:13:20 ◼   ► the base model that came out three years ago,

00:13:23 ◼   ► it was the first Retina 15 inch.

00:13:25 ◼   ► And I was looking, just out of curiosity,

00:13:26 ◼   ► I was looking like, you know,

00:13:27 ◼   ► if I wanted to replace this today,

00:13:30 ◼   ► you know, if it broke or if I wanted to replace it

00:13:32 ◼   ► this summer with Broadwell, what would I replace it with?

00:13:34 ◼   ► What configuration?

00:13:35 ◼   ► And looked at the configurations that are available today,

00:13:38 ◼   ► and I would get the base model again.

00:13:39 ◼   ► It's like, the specs are so good.

00:13:41 ◼   ► Now it's 16 gigs of RAM, mine is eight.

00:13:43 ◼   ► It's a faster CPU, same disk space,

00:13:46 ◼   ► but I don't need a lot of space

00:13:47 ◼   ► 'cause it's not my primary computer.

00:13:48 ◼   ► And so it's no big deal.

00:13:50 ◼   ► So like, I think I would, you know,

00:13:53 ◼   ► I think if, if Broadwalk comes out this summer,

00:13:56 ◼   ► like I said, you know, I have a family member who,

00:13:58 ◼   ► who I kind of need to hand this down to pretty soon.

00:14:00 ◼   ► So if Broadwalk comes out this summer

00:14:02 ◼   ► and it's a reasonable update,

00:14:03 ◼   ► I'm gonna buy the base model again, probably.

00:14:05 ◼   ► If I didn't have a good reason to upgrade,

00:14:08 ◼   ► I would keep using this one for another year or two,

00:14:11 ◼   ► at least, I mean, I would guess the,

00:14:13 ◼   ► the average duration of a Mac owner, you know,

00:14:17 ◼   ► between, between upgrading the computers

00:14:18 ◼   ► probably three years or more.

00:14:21 ◼   ► - I mean, I've had my work computer for three years.

00:14:24 ◼   ► I've had my personal computer for three-ish years.

00:14:27 ◼   ► I probably will be getting a new machine,

00:14:31 ◼   ► a new machine for myself sometime soon.

00:14:33 ◼   ► And I know work is on a three-year cycle.

00:14:35 ◼   ► So I might be rocking two different new Macs this year.

00:14:39 ◼   ► I don't know, we'll see what happens.

00:14:40 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean, a three-year cycle is not unreasonable.

00:14:43 ◼   ► And I think most people would actually go

00:14:46 ◼   ► on an even longer cycle.

00:14:48 ◼   ► And especially for those like myself who have machines that have spinning platters in them,

00:14:54 ◼   ► even just an SSD can make a tremendous difference.

00:14:58 ◼   ► Our first sponsor is Cards Against Humanity.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Now once again they have not given me any script to read and instead they have sent

00:15:05 ◼   ► Jon another toaster to review.

00:15:07 ◼   ► So Jon, what toaster do you have this week and what are your thoughts on it?

00:15:13 ◼   ► This week I have the Hamilton Beach 31230.

00:15:16 ◼   ► They have the idea of taking letters out

00:15:19 ◼   ► of their model number, which I don't know if it

00:15:20 ◼   ► makes it worse or better.

00:15:21 ◼   ► I guess probably better.

00:15:22 ◼   ► It can't be that much worse than the other ones we've been

00:15:24 ◼   ► seeing.

00:15:24 ◼   ► Yeah, they all have like a name like, you know,

00:15:27 ◼   ► set it and forget it, toaster oven, you know,

00:15:29 ◼   ► like there's some word that's on the cover.

00:15:31 ◼   ► That's not the name of the product.

00:15:32 ◼   ► It's the model number.

00:15:33 ◼   ► Anyway, this is a big one.

00:15:34 ◼   ► This is a very big toaster.

00:15:36 ◼   ► The inside is about the same size as my Breville 650XL,

00:15:40 ◼   ► which is a pretty big toaster.

00:15:41 ◼   ► You can easily fit four slices of bread in it.

00:15:43 ◼   ► But the outside of this thing, like, first of all,

00:15:45 ◼   ► left and right side and back have curves on them, so it's wider than you think it is.

00:15:49 ◼   ► Like you look at it from the front and you think just the brightly colored rectangle

00:15:51 ◼   ► side but it has bulges, like big metal bulges. So that adds a couple inches on either side

00:15:56 ◼   ► and in the back. And the thing to the right of the toaster where all the buttons are is

00:15:59 ◼   ► pretty thick. So this is, I think this is probably as big as the Breville version of

00:16:02 ◼   ► mine that has convection. And I think that's probably what makes this thing larger is that

00:16:06 ◼   ► this also has convection. So it's just the price you pay for convection, you get a much

00:16:10 ◼   ► bigger toaster. Well it's, it's shown in the Amazon pictures as containing what appears

00:16:14 ◼   ► to be either a very large chicken or a very small turkey.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Yeah, that's like a smallish chicken.

00:16:19 ◼   ► Like, it's the same size inside as my Breville,

00:16:22 ◼   ► but the outside is bigger.

00:16:23 ◼   ► So the interesting feature this has,

00:16:25 ◼   ► and you can see it in the picture,

00:16:26 ◼   ► is this thing comes with a probe thermometer

00:16:28 ◼   ► that's attached to the toaster

00:16:29 ◼   ► in a very poorly designed little door

00:16:32 ◼   ► that you shove the probe into, like a slot,

00:16:36 ◼   ► and then you wad up the rubber-coated wire for the probe,

00:16:39 ◼   ► and then you try to close this little door.

00:16:40 ◼   ► It's terrible.

00:16:41 ◼   ► Anyway, it does have a probe attached

00:16:43 ◼   ► which are food temperature so you can put the probe into your food and close

00:16:46 ◼   ► the door yes close it on your rubber surrounded thermometer wire thing like

00:16:51 ◼   ► the door will close all the way with the wire sort of shoved and pinched through

00:16:55 ◼   ► there which is weird and it also means there has to be kind of a gap around the

00:16:58 ◼   ► entire door to the toaster anyway you stick the probe in and you can you know

00:17:03 ◼   ► pick the desired temperature of the food and you just turn the thing on and it

00:17:05 ◼   ► will turn itself off when your food hits the correct temperature and it's got the

00:17:08 ◼   ► government food safety temperatures for different kinds of food like printed on

00:17:12 ◼   ► the door of the toaster in case you forget and I just take this time to remind everybody

00:17:16 ◼   ► that the government food safety temperatures for food are often crazy. Like they say you

00:17:22 ◼   ► should cook pork to 160 to 170 degrees. I invite everyone listening to this to cook

00:17:26 ◼   ► a pork chop to 170 degrees and then tell me how it tastes to them. It tastes like sawdust.

00:17:31 ◼   ► You cannot cook pork to 170 degrees. They do that for like, you know, prevention from

00:17:35 ◼   ► trigonosis or whatever. Anyway, all I'm saying is the government food safety temperatures

00:17:38 ◼   ► her food are super conservative. Yeah, it will kill every German that food, it will

00:17:43 ◼   ► also kill the food and it will be tasteless and terrible.

00:17:45 ◼   ► Oh god, please email Jon about this, not us.

00:17:47 ◼   ► If you die of Trigonosis, don't blame me, but I'm just, you know, feel free to cook

00:17:51 ◼   ► your pork to 170, but there's no way to live, just don't eat pork then.

00:17:54 ◼   ► Oh my god, we're going to hear from everybody on both sides of this argument and you realize

00:17:59 ◼   ► it.

00:18:00 ◼   ► No, everyone who knows anything about cooking pork will say yes, of course you can. Have

00:18:03 ◼   ► any of you ever cooked pork to 170?

00:18:05 ◼   ► I've never cooked pork.

00:18:06 ◼   ► Oh, you guys don't cook.

00:18:07 ◼   ► Yeah, the only time I ever cooked pork is bacon and that's a whole different ballgame.

00:18:11 ◼   ► Both of you don't cook.

00:18:12 ◼   ► No, I cook, just not that.

00:18:13 ◼   ► Alright.

00:18:15 ◼   ► Just not that.

00:18:16 ◼   ► Never in your whole life ever?

00:18:18 ◼   ► I mean, like Casey, I've cooked bacon.

00:18:20 ◼   ► But I don't really like eating pork chops, so I don't cook them.

00:18:24 ◼   ► Pork roast?

00:18:25 ◼   ► Nothing?

00:18:26 ◼   ► No, not even big hams.

00:18:27 ◼   ► No, I'm not really a huge pork fan.

00:18:29 ◼   ► Alright.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Well, now you've got angry letters from the pork friends.

00:18:34 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:18:35 ◼   ► The toaster as a toaster, I tried to do my typical toast off versus mine where you put

00:18:40 ◼   ► you know, cold toaster, put a piece of bread and each one right in the middle, start toasting,

00:18:44 ◼   ► see who wins.

00:18:45 ◼   ► That's how you know, I've been timing them all.

00:18:48 ◼   ► That the toast off was thwarted by the fact that this thing is humongous and my other

00:18:51 ◼   ► toaster is not particularly small.

00:18:53 ◼   ► And I tripped the circuit breaker in my kitchen halfway through the toasting process trying

00:18:56 ◼   ► to toast bread and bros.

00:18:57 ◼   ► This is a 1400 watt toaster oven.

00:19:01 ◼   ► I flipped the breaker and tried again when the toasters were cooled one at a time.

00:19:05 ◼   ► This is a slow toaster for toasting bread.

00:19:07 ◼   ► It is slower than my Breville.

00:19:08 ◼   ► It's the slowest one I've had.

00:19:10 ◼   ► It's large, it's cavernous, and it's got the, I think it's like resistive heating elements.

00:19:15 ◼   ► They're not the quartz ones that are like shiny and thick and light up quickly.

00:19:18 ◼   ► These are skinnier and dark and they slowly start to glow red.

00:19:22 ◼   ► It is really slow to toast.

00:19:23 ◼   ► I don't know if I could tolerate trying to cook toast in this thing because it's just

00:19:27 ◼   ► really slow.

00:19:28 ◼   ► Now do you have like a minutes measure like what what do you consider really slow?

00:19:32 ◼   ► I had I did time it in a stopwatch, but I just did the math to the subtracting from my toaster

00:19:38 ◼   ► It's like 30 seconds slower. I think it's like over three minutes, maybe four minutes like

00:19:42 ◼   ► Yeah, and I don't I don't know if this one is smart like my toaster because my toaster

00:19:46 ◼   ► As soon as you hit toast it will tell you how long it's going to take and how long it will take depends on the ambient

00:19:52 ◼   ► Temperature inside the toaster so the second piece of toast is way faster than the first one right right?

00:19:56 ◼   ► That's what's make it a smart toaster. Anyway, this one has no readout like that

00:19:59 ◼   ► Yeah, so speaking of the readouts

00:20:02 ◼   ► Like there's not great choices for all the stuff that you touch and you see on this toaster like the dials buttons and displays

00:20:08 ◼   ► There are no dials. It's all buttons the the display is like one of those multi-segment displays

00:20:13 ◼   ► It's not a seven segment because it can make letters as well

00:20:16 ◼   ► So it's not just the the numbers and stuff and it you know

00:20:18 ◼   ► Cuz I just I think it has like the diagonal line for like the letter N and stuff

00:20:22 ◼   ► I don't know. Maybe that's a seven eight nine ten eleven twelve segment display

00:20:25 ◼   ► But it lights up and it tries to do this scrolling stuff. Like when you hit toast it says C N T R blank R

00:20:31 ◼   ► A C K blank C N T R blank is trying to tell you center rack

00:20:36 ◼   ► And this is something people our age or my age anyway might not realize that modern toasters

00:20:41 ◼   ► Have a movable rack and they expect you to have the rack in the middle of the toaster like height wise now at the bottom

00:20:48 ◼   ► Of the toaster now at the top of the toaster directly in the middle

00:20:51 ◼   ► Which looks really weird for people like me who grew up with the black and deck toaster where the rack was always at the bottom

00:20:55 ◼   ► But it makes sense from an even toasting perspective because you want to be equal distance from the heating elements

00:21:00 ◼   ► If you're right against the bottom heating elements, the bottom is gonna cook way faster than the top

00:21:03 ◼   ► Anyway, that little display doesn't tell you anything useful

00:21:07 ◼   ► It doesn't tell you how long it's gonna take doesn't give you a countdown time or it just says it's you know toasting and

00:21:11 ◼   ► The buttons in the thing are membrane buttons like the fix was brought up on a podcast listen to recently

00:21:18 ◼   ► Maybe it was on back to work the Atari 400 membrane keyboard

00:21:21 ◼   ► You guys don't remember that but do you know what I'm talking about when I say a membrane keyboard? Yeah

00:21:24 ◼   ► It's like the little like it's like bubbles and bubbles of plastic that are that they're just like held up over the surface the entire

00:21:30 ◼   ► Set of buttons that control this entire toaster are all membrane buttons and every time you press one

00:21:34 ◼   ► It's not feels like you're pressing the entire membrane down like it's it is not an expensive feeling thing

00:21:40 ◼   ► The the rack doesn't pull out when the door opens the the rack is flimsy the tray comes with their flimsy

00:21:46 ◼   ► If you want to use it as like a this is more like a miniature oven

00:21:49 ◼   ► Less like it, you know, I know they're all like that

00:21:51 ◼   ► "Yo, it's a miniature oven."

00:21:52 ◼   ► But this performs so poorly on toaster-related things

00:21:55 ◼   ► where it's a frequently used appliance

00:21:57 ◼   ► and you're going back to it again and again

00:21:58 ◼   ► to cook lots of toast in the morning

00:21:59 ◼   ► and to do stuff like that.

00:22:00 ◼   ► This is more like what they show on the cover.

00:22:02 ◼   ► If you wanna cook a chicken and put a propter monitor in it

00:22:04 ◼   ► and it's like a smaller version of an oven,

00:22:05 ◼   ► then you're not bothered so much by the button business.

00:22:08 ◼   ► The UI isn't terrible.

00:22:09 ◼   ► The buttons, you basically don't need to read the manual.

00:22:11 ◼   ► You can look at the buttons and figure it out,

00:22:12 ◼   ► but there's lots of waiting for everything.

00:22:14 ◼   ► You press a button and it says Center Rack,

00:22:16 ◼   ► and you're like, "Are you waiting for me to move the rack?

00:22:18 ◼   ► "Are you gonna start toasting?"

00:22:20 ◼   ► and there's no countdown to tell you when it has started.

00:22:22 ◼   ► Very often I've had to open it up and stick my hand inside

00:22:24 ◼   ► to see if it's starting to get hot

00:22:26 ◼   ► because there's no visual indication

00:22:27 ◼   ► that it is doing what I asked it to do,

00:22:29 ◼   ► pushing the little membrane buttons.

00:22:30 ◼   ► Yeah, not a fan.

00:22:33 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:22:36 ◼   ► - So how do you really feel, Jon?

00:22:39 ◼   ► - I mean, it's not terrible.

00:22:40 ◼   ► It's a good little oven,

00:22:41 ◼   ► like for cooking small things in an oven,

00:22:44 ◼   ► but I would not use this as a toaster.

00:22:46 ◼   ► And it's just humongous and weird.

00:22:49 ◼   ► Now, it looks like in their picture,

00:22:51 ◼   ► so you said they've selected a misleadingly sized chicken

00:22:56 ◼   ► for the top picture there with the probe.

00:22:58 ◼   ► And then I see their bread showing

00:23:00 ◼   ► that it's a six-slice toaster.

00:23:02 ◼   ► That is a very strange proportion

00:23:05 ◼   ► that those bread slices have,

00:23:06 ◼   ► where they look really small and thickly cut.

00:23:09 ◼   ► - It's like Texas toast or something.

00:23:11 ◼   ► - You could not fit six slices of regular sandwich bread

00:23:13 ◼   ► in this thing, it's a four-slice toaster.

00:23:14 ◼   ► First of all, you do have to have some space

00:23:16 ◼   ► around the toast, otherwise it doesn't,

00:23:17 ◼   ► you know, crisp up around the edges.

00:23:19 ◼   ► And second of all, I don't think I could wedge

00:23:21 ◼   ► three pieces of bread in this thing side by side.

00:23:23 ◼   ► Just regular sandwich bread, you know,

00:23:25 ◼   ► it's not that big.

00:23:27 ◼   ► - Okay, well thank you Cards Against Humanity

00:23:30 ◼   ► for giving us that toaster extravaganza one more time.

00:23:35 ◼   ► Aye yi yi.

00:23:36 ◼   ► All right, so back to the follow up.

00:23:38 ◼   ► Do we wanna talk about what it's like to build RAM?

00:23:41 ◼   ► - Oh, actually right before that,

00:23:43 ◼   ► hopefully the final thing on the MacBook limitations.

00:23:47 ◼   ► I think a lot of our questions will be answered

00:23:50 ◼   ► when the new MacBook Pros come out,

00:23:54 ◼   ► because we assume they'll all have USB Type-C connectors

00:23:58 ◼   ► on them, and we also assume they're not gonna have

00:24:00 ◼   ► one port, right?

00:24:02 ◼   ► So all of these questions about what it takes

00:24:04 ◼   ► to have more than one port and how Apple handles

00:24:07 ◼   ► the possible confusion of like,

00:24:10 ◼   ► oh, can you power it from both of them?

00:24:11 ◼   ► Can I put four monitors in

00:24:13 ◼   ► because there's four USB Type-C ports?

00:24:15 ◼   ► all of those things will be answered,

00:24:17 ◼   ► not by seeing whether Marques is right

00:24:20 ◼   ► about the next version of this new MacBook having two ports,

00:24:23 ◼   ► but by seeing what they do to the MacBook Pro.

00:24:26 ◼   ► I mean, if they put one port in the MacBook Pro,

00:24:28 ◼   ► it is not illuminating,

00:24:29 ◼   ► but I'm assuming they're not gonna have one port

00:24:30 ◼   ► in the MacBook Pro, and then we're gonna see,

00:24:32 ◼   ► all these questions about possible confusion,

00:24:35 ◼   ► how does Apple answer them with a product

00:24:36 ◼   ► that they basically have to have

00:24:37 ◼   ► more than one USB Type-C port on it?

00:24:40 ◼   ► - That's a fair point, but I think a lot of these reasons

00:24:44 ◼   ► really only apply with this with the chipset

00:24:46 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:24:46 ◼   ► So I'd say about half of the reasons

00:24:49 ◼   ► that we've been sent in.

00:24:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just mean like the confusion reasons,

00:24:52 ◼   ► like oh, you can't charge for more than one

00:24:53 ◼   ► or it's confusing, I don't know what I can plug in

00:24:55 ◼   ► and if it has more ports then it supports monitors

00:24:58 ◼   ► 'cause maybe it supports three monitors

00:24:59 ◼   ► but has four ports, you know.

00:25:00 ◼   ► - Right, right, that's fair.

00:25:01 ◼   ► All right.

00:25:03 ◼   ► Finally, RAM.

00:25:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, last show I made an offhand comment talking about,

00:25:07 ◼   ► we were talking about Skylake

00:25:08 ◼   ► and the process sizes and everything

00:25:10 ◼   ► And I said that when they do a new process size,

00:25:14 ◼   ► they fab RAM first because it's very regular

00:25:16 ◼   ► and it's easier to fab than the complicated logic in a CPU.

00:25:18 ◼   ► And Joel wrote in to say that either that information

00:25:22 ◼   ► was always wrong or at the very least it's not true anymore

00:25:24 ◼   ► because apparently fabbing RAM is actually harder

00:25:26 ◼   ► than pure logic chips these days

00:25:28 ◼   ► because the RAM has more capacitors in it

00:25:33 ◼   ► and yield and reliability problems in DRAM

00:25:35 ◼   ► are almost always due to the manufacturing problems

00:25:37 ◼   ► with the capacitors, which are very tightly packed

00:25:38 ◼   ► and have high aspect ratios, whatever that means.

00:25:42 ◼   ► He wrote in a very detailed explanation

00:25:43 ◼   ► that I found very convincing

00:25:44 ◼   ► that that is not the case anymore.

00:25:46 ◼   ► In fact, the RAM is often fabbed

00:25:47 ◼   ► at one to two generations behind

00:25:49 ◼   ► what logic is fabbed at these days.

00:25:51 ◼   ► I tried to do some googling to see

00:25:52 ◼   ► where did I get this idea that they used to fab RAM first

00:25:55 ◼   ► on a new process size to get the kinks worked out of it.

00:25:57 ◼   ► And I just did not know what the hell to Google for.

00:25:59 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure it's true,

00:26:00 ◼   ► but it could be knowledge from like the '80s for all I know.

00:26:02 ◼   ► So, so much has changed in silicon chip making these days

00:26:06 ◼   ► that it's probably just outdated info.

00:26:08 ◼   ► If anyone does know what the hell I'm remembering,

00:26:11 ◼   ► if I am remembering something,

00:26:12 ◼   ► please do send in the link so I can see if I'm crazy.

00:26:15 ◼   ► - See, I don't even have to say,

00:26:16 ◼   ► please only one person send that to us,

00:26:17 ◼   ► 'cause I know that the number of people

00:26:18 ◼   ► who are gonna send that is gonna be between zero and one.

00:26:21 ◼   ► - Anybody who read "Bite Magazine" in the '80s

00:26:23 ◼   ► probably knows it.

00:26:24 ◼   ► - Goodness.

00:26:25 ◼   ► Okay, so a little bit about the new trackpad.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Apple apparently has updated some apps to use it,

00:26:33 ◼   ► including iMovie.

00:26:35 ◼   ► I don't know which one of you entered this in the document,

00:26:39 ◼   ► but I know almost nothing about this.

00:26:41 ◼   ► - I entered in that.

00:26:42 ◼   ► You didn't read these stories?

00:26:43 ◼   ► Like they updated like a bunch of their apps to, you know,

00:26:46 ◼   ► to support the new Force Touch track pad.

00:26:49 ◼   ► But the most interesting one I thought was iMovie,

00:26:52 ◼   ► where they updated it so like when you're dragging

00:26:54 ◼   ► along the clips, you can like feel when you hit the end

00:26:56 ◼   ► of the clip, like dragging the little slider along the,

00:26:59 ◼   ► you know, in iMovie they show the-

00:27:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've heard that phrase, but like how?

00:27:03 ◼   ► What are you feeling?

00:27:04 ◼   ► So here's the thing about this using force touch for the UI.

00:27:07 ◼   ► This is a very,

00:27:08 ◼   ► it's almost a one dimensional output device.

00:27:11 ◼   ► All it does is vibrate.

00:27:12 ◼   ► Maybe you can vibrate different amounts

00:27:13 ◼   ► or different, you know, different amplitude

00:27:16 ◼   ► and possibly different frequency, but this is not,

00:27:19 ◼   ► you're not actually feeling anything.

00:27:21 ◼   ► It is very, very limited.

00:27:23 ◼   ► It's kind of like, you know,

00:27:23 ◼   ► when they added the rumble pack in Star Fox 64,

00:27:25 ◼   ► where it was like, well, all it does is rumble.

00:27:28 ◼   ► Yeah, you can kind of make it rumble different amounts,

00:27:30 ◼   ► rumble very, you know, in bursts or whatever,

00:27:33 ◼   ► but it is a very limited feedback device.

00:27:34 ◼   ► So all of it has to kind of be

00:27:36 ◼   ► in simulating some kind of bump, right?

00:27:38 ◼   ► So if you wanna feel

00:27:39 ◼   ► when you're scrubbing a little cursor along a clip,

00:27:42 ◼   ► when you've hit the end, it goes bzzt,

00:27:43 ◼   ► and vibrate slightly, I'm assuming.

00:27:46 ◼   ► I haven't tried this in person,

00:27:47 ◼   ► I've just read the articles,

00:27:48 ◼   ► but this is a new, I don't know what you'd call it,

00:27:51 ◼   ► a new, not dimension, a new vector

00:27:54 ◼   ► for output from the device.

00:27:56 ◼   ► You've got visual, you've got sound,

00:27:57 ◼   ► and now you've got,

00:27:58 ◼   ► it can make you feel something under your finger.

00:28:01 ◼   ► Not very complicated things,

00:28:03 ◼   ► basically just some kind of vibration

00:28:05 ◼   ► of different strength and timing,

00:28:09 ◼   ► but that's not nothing.

00:28:10 ◼   ► And it's the type of thing where,

00:28:12 ◼   ► we all just assume Force Touch will come

00:28:14 ◼   ► to all the iOS devices and everything.

00:28:16 ◼   ► And Force Touch, by the way, on the watch,

00:28:17 ◼   ► it's only one way, right?

00:28:19 ◼   ► - What do you mean?

00:28:20 ◼   ► - You press on the watch of varying amounts

00:28:21 ◼   ► and it senses how much you're pressing.

00:28:23 ◼   ► It does not press back on your finger, right?

00:28:25 ◼   ► Is that-- - Well, no, but it,

00:28:28 ◼   ► see, this is why the nomenclature's so peculiar

00:28:31 ◼   ► because the Taptic Engine does,

00:28:35 ◼   ► God, I just had it on the tip of my tongue and I lost it,

00:28:37 ◼   ► but it'll tap you like--

00:28:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, it vibrates on your wrist,

00:28:40 ◼   ► but not in response to you pressing it, right?

00:28:43 ◼   ► It's not like you're scrolling through with your finger

00:28:46 ◼   ► on the phone, like swiping through screens,

00:28:48 ◼   ► and the phone vibrates to make you feel like

00:28:51 ◼   ► you feel something under your finger?

00:28:53 ◼   ► - I think that's correct, but I don't know.

00:28:56 ◼   ► - Whatever the case, on the MacBooks,

00:28:59 ◼   ► they are trying to make it as a way

00:29:00 ◼   ► so that you can sort of feel stuff on the screen

00:29:02 ◼   ► in a very limited way.

00:29:04 ◼   ► But even just in a very limited way,

00:29:05 ◼   ► it's like, well, if you're gonna put a four-step trackpad

00:29:07 ◼   ► in everything, and this is so easy to do,

00:29:10 ◼   ► and they have a very simple API for it,

00:29:12 ◼   ► and it adds just a little bit of,

00:29:14 ◼   ► it's the type of thing where

00:29:15 ◼   ► if you have any kind of tactile feedback,

00:29:18 ◼   ► it is another, what the hell's the word I'm looking for?

00:29:21 ◼   ► Another input channel.

00:29:22 ◼   ► - Dimension?

00:29:23 ◼   ► - No, it's not dimension.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Another input channel for your experience

00:29:26 ◼   ► that once you get used to it being there,

00:29:29 ◼   ► as long as it's not annoying,

00:29:30 ◼   ► the lack of it will feel wrong to you

00:29:32 ◼   ► in the same way that suddenly if you had to use a Mac

00:29:34 ◼   ► with closing your eyes or closing your ears.

00:29:35 ◼   ► And the same way they did things with sound,

00:29:37 ◼   ► like user interface sound,

00:29:39 ◼   ► it has to be done in a limited way.

00:29:40 ◼   ► If every time you scrolled a scroll bar or a scrolling view,

00:29:44 ◼   ► it made some whistle noise, you'd be like,

00:29:45 ◼   ► all right, turn that off immediately.

00:29:46 ◼   ► And I think most Mac users turn off the thing

00:29:51 ◼   ► that makes a sound when you're done.

00:29:53 ◼   ► Most sort of like people listening to this podcast,

00:29:55 ◼   ► I think turn off the finder sounds

00:29:56 ◼   ► that like crumple up paper when you empty the trash

00:29:58 ◼   ► or make a ding when you copy a file from one place

00:30:00 ◼   ► to the other, I don't know, maybe I'm crazy.

00:30:01 ◼   ► - Nope. - I don't.

00:30:02 ◼   ► - Neither do I. - You leave those on?

00:30:04 ◼   ► - Yes. - Oh my God,

00:30:05 ◼   ► I don't know what you guys are doing.

00:30:06 ◼   ► - How many files are you deleting

00:30:08 ◼   ► when it's such a big problem?

00:30:09 ◼   ► - It doesn't matter, just like that,

00:30:10 ◼   ► I don't want that to happen on my computer ever.

00:30:14 ◼   ► Just empty the trash, don't make a noise.

00:30:16 ◼   ► I mean, let's saw through the garage coming out

00:30:18 ◼   ► and singing me a song, I don't wanna see it.

00:30:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:30:21 ◼   ► - No, I mean, it's useful for me because usually,

00:30:23 ◼   ► 'cause I don't know, does it do it,

00:30:24 ◼   ► I know the trash does, but does it do it

00:30:26 ◼   ► when you're moving files, if it's just like

00:30:27 ◼   ► a really quick immediate thing.

00:30:29 ◼   ► 'Cause I know it does it after long operations.

00:30:31 ◼   ► - If you just copy it, it doesn't go bing,

00:30:32 ◼   ► I don't even know what the sounds are,

00:30:34 ◼   ► but I immediately turn them off.

00:30:36 ◼   ► But anyway, like--

00:30:37 ◼   ► - Well, it's useful feedback because when you have,

00:30:39 ◼   ► like first of all, somebody like me,

00:30:40 ◼   ► I very rarely empty the trash, I just forget to do it.

00:30:43 ◼   ► So when I do empty the trash,

00:30:44 ◼   ► it's a pretty big set of trash in there.

00:30:46 ◼   ► And you know, if I'm doing a big file move,

00:30:48 ◼   ► it might take a while.

00:30:49 ◼   ► So the sounds provide feedback to tell you when it's done.

00:30:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, anyway, what I'm getting at is it has to be done

00:30:54 ◼   ► in a subtle manner.

00:30:56 ◼   ► Like there's a right amount of sound feedback,

00:30:57 ◼   ► beeping for things or something like that makes sense,

00:31:00 ◼   ► but maybe not have a sound every time you move the cursor.

00:31:03 ◼   ► (imitates beeping)

00:31:04 ◼   ► You know, all that type of movie sounds.

00:31:06 ◼   ► It has to be.

00:31:07 ◼   ► And so the same thing with the Taptic feedback.

00:31:08 ◼   ► If you just get it when you hit the bump stops

00:31:10 ◼   ► in the clip and eye movie, that's fine.

00:31:11 ◼   ► But if you got it every time you scrolled it,

00:31:12 ◼   ► like vibrated under your finger in any app,

00:31:14 ◼   ► that would be too much.

00:31:15 ◼   ► So people will have to find the right balance here.

00:31:17 ◼   ► But I think once they do find that balance

00:31:19 ◼   ► and once it comes to every Apple device,

00:31:21 ◼   ► it's just a gimme that it's like,

00:31:23 ◼   ► this makes the experience richer,

00:31:25 ◼   ► even if it's so incredibly primitive at all,

00:31:27 ◼   ► this is like a vibrate a little bit.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Just think of like if your phone

00:31:29 ◼   ► didn't have a vibration motor in it,

00:31:32 ◼   ► how much worse a device would be,

00:31:33 ◼   ► just for that one little wiggly piece of metal inside it.

00:31:36 ◼   ► And how much they can do with that.

00:31:38 ◼   ► - I'm a little worried about developers

00:31:40 ◼   ► overusing this for a while,

00:31:41 ◼   ► and Apple also overusing this for a while.

00:31:44 ◼   ► I did finally get a chance to try one of these

00:31:48 ◼   ► in a store this week, so I was very happy about that.

00:31:51 ◼   ► I also initially didn't believe that it was that trackpad.

00:31:55 ◼   ► I thought, oh, this must be the old model.

00:31:57 ◼   ► 'Cause it clicked.

00:31:57 ◼   ► It does feel different, but it's like a softer click.

00:32:02 ◼   ► And I know it's a setting, and I tried all the different,

00:32:05 ◼   ► I tried the whole range of settings they have there.

00:32:07 ◼   ► It is still a softer click.

00:32:10 ◼   ► It's less clicky, less feedback

00:32:12 ◼   ► than you got from the old one.

00:32:13 ◼   ► But it still feels like a click to me, and so it's great.

00:32:18 ◼   ► My worry, and when you do the double,

00:32:20 ◼   ► the deeper forced click, whatever they're calling that one,

00:32:24 ◼   ► that one is interesting, it feels fine.

00:32:27 ◼   ► My worry with that is that now we have

00:32:30 ◼   ► three different kinds of clicks.

00:32:32 ◼   ► It's kind of like Swift, where it looks simple,

00:32:35 ◼   ► and it seems simple, but it's actually

00:32:37 ◼   ► just hiding complexity.

00:32:39 ◼   ► - It's not hiding complexity.

00:32:40 ◼   ► Oh, God, we'll talk about Swift another time.

00:32:42 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, we sure will.

00:32:44 ◼   ► So it appears, by the trackpad,

00:32:47 ◼   ► appears as though you have one button, right? Like the main click. But we all know in reality

00:32:52 ◼   ► you have a secondary click, a right click, a control click, whatever you want to call

00:32:56 ◼   ► it. The right click menu is often a very, often does important things. So you often

00:33:02 ◼   ► need to know about it. So in reality you pretty much need to know two different clicks. The

00:33:07 ◼   ► fourth click is now a third one. It's not just a right click. I think it would be better

00:33:11 ◼   ► if it was just a right click. But it's not. It's now this third thing that like sometimes

00:33:16 ◼   ► it does a dictionary pop-up, sometimes it does quick look, sometimes it does other things.

00:33:20 ◼   ► And so now it's this third level of stuff that we have to either accidentally trigger

00:33:24 ◼   ► and be surprised by, which is annoying, or that we have to learn, which is, you know,

00:33:29 ◼   ► possibly tricky because now it's this third thing, or, and by the way, it's completely

00:33:33 ◼   ► inconsistent as to what it does on different things, or we have to ignore it in which case

00:33:37 ◼   ► it's a waste. So like, I wish they would have just kind of made it a right-click and just

00:33:42 ◼   ► kept it simpler.

00:33:43 ◼   ► I don't want to be right click just because I'm I'm concerned about how much force is going to take to do a force click

00:33:48 ◼   ► I wouldn't want to do it as a routine

00:33:50 ◼   ► It's not much you know and that's the other concern if it's not much

00:33:53 ◼   ► I hope it's adjustable somewhere if it's not much

00:33:55 ◼   ► Then I don't want people who are slow in doing a click who are very deliberate in doing a click to accidentally trigger a force

00:34:01 ◼   ► click because then you have to end up turning it off for them because they're like

00:34:03 ◼   ► I'm they're just kind of they're like I tried to click on something, but a dictionary definition came up

00:34:07 ◼   ► It's like well you just held it a little bit too long right and so that then you just have to disable it for them

00:34:11 ◼   ► I'm hoping it if you're able to disable it it would be better if there was like a delay

00:34:14 ◼   ► And you could just crank the delay up so that the one time a month

00:34:17 ◼   ► I have to do a force click though to sit there and hold their finger down

00:34:19 ◼   ► Pressing for like three seconds, then the dictionary definition come up

00:34:22 ◼   ► Maybe happy with that like I can see someone getting used to that and using that because if you try to teach them

00:34:26 ◼   ► Command option shift D. Nobody remembers it or whatever the hell that that thing is what it reminded me a lot of was on automatic

00:34:33 ◼   ► BMWs and I think most German cars are like this, but certainly BMWs you could you can floor it and then

00:34:40 ◼   ► and the pedal stops and then you can kind of push through what appears to be the floorboard

00:34:47 ◼   ► and then there's a little bit more depth of the pedal which is I think they call it a

00:34:51 ◼   ► kick down mode or something like that which is you telling the car no really freaking

00:34:57 ◼   ► go and that's a lot what this force click whatever it's called felt like.

00:35:01 ◼   ► You would click and then push a little bit harder and then you'd get a second click out

00:35:06 ◼   ► of it.

00:35:07 ◼   ► Does it tell the car to just downshift?

00:35:09 ◼   ► Is that what it's trying to do?

00:35:10 ◼   ► automatic yeah it'll tell it to downshift as much as possible so what does it do in a manual

00:35:14 ◼   ► i don't have one in my car nothing right it's just it's just a placebo yeah what i brought i

00:35:20 ◼   ► still have not tried the force click track but i never really wanted to but what it brings to

00:35:23 ◼   ► mind to me of course is the uh and uh if john roder could ever listen to this podcast he can correct

00:35:28 ◼   ► me but he doesn't so he won't haha uh the uh the flight stick in the f-16 uh doesn't move i believe

00:35:35 ◼   ► as in it's like force touch type thing it does not move around you just apply forces to it

00:35:39 ◼   ► And that may seem like how can you like how can you fly a plane with a with a stick that doesn't move at all?

00:35:45 ◼   ► It's if this is f16 or the fd-18 perhaps. It's both someone will send us the the correction

00:35:49 ◼   ► But it's I imagine it's like the force touch trackpad where you just get used to the fact that the thing doesn't move

00:35:55 ◼   ► I don't even think it has any haptic feedback

00:35:57 ◼   ► It's just like that's the way you you do this thing by applying force to different directions to a thing that doesn't move so sitting

00:36:02 ◼   ► There are applying varying amounts of force to a glass surface that never moves and probably doesn't even flex that much

00:36:07 ◼   ► seems weird but

00:36:09 ◼   ► As long as there's some kind of visual or tactile feedback

00:36:13 ◼   ► that you are accomplishing what you meant to do,

00:36:15 ◼   ► people will just get used to it.

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00:36:28 ◼   ► that plugs into your OBD2 port.

00:36:30 ◼   ► This is the little diagnostic port that's usually in the,

00:36:32 ◼   ► is it the driver's side footwell or the passenger?

00:36:35 ◼   ► - Drivers.

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00:36:37 ◼   ► It's a little Bluetooth thing that plugs into that port

00:36:38 ◼   ► and it connects your iPhone or Android phone

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00:36:43 ◼   ► So they have apps that run on iPhone and Android,

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00:36:48 ◼   ► where you've driven, how efficiently,

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00:36:55 ◼   ► If you want to, say, make a little ding

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00:36:59 ◼   ► to kind of train yourself to save gas,

00:37:01 ◼   ► it can do that for you.

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00:37:12 ◼   ► is pretty bad, or my average this week is doing great,

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00:37:16 ◼   ► It could also call emergency services for you

00:37:19 ◼   ► in a serious crash.

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00:37:27 ◼   ► it can diagnose your engine light.

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00:37:32 ◼   ► it can tell you what the code means in more detail

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00:39:12 ◼   ► - All right.

00:39:15 ◼   ► So speaking of the Force Touch trackpad,

00:39:19 ◼   ► apparently there may be or may not be

00:39:22 ◼   ► a missing three finger drag.

00:39:23 ◼   ► And not that I was planning on buying a MacBook,

00:39:25 ◼   ► but I am thinking, like I said,

00:39:27 ◼   ► of buying one of the other machines

00:39:29 ◼   ► that may have this trackpad.

00:39:30 ◼   ► And I rely on three finger swipes to do spaces, which I love.

00:39:37 ◼   ► And I'm assuming, Jon, you hate because you hate anything moving anywhere on your computer.

00:39:41 ◼   ► Jon Sorrentino That's not why I hate spaces, but I do hate them.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Cote, why do you hate spaces?

00:39:45 ◼   ► Because if I don't ask, I'm going to, I'm going to wonder the rest of the episode.

00:39:48 ◼   ► Jon Sorrentino I just couldn't, well, the animation is an annoyance, but I also could never get a workflow set up where I didn't wonder on which screen a window.

00:39:58 ◼   ► Well, I could never figure out like this is gonna be the screen for X

00:40:00 ◼   ► This is gonna be the screen for Y or if I tried to make a decision like that through using the system. I would

00:40:06 ◼   ► Inadvertently violate that by like accidentally opening a web browser in this in the session in the space

00:40:11 ◼   ► That is not for that web browser like it just never I just don't have a system for it

00:40:15 ◼   ► So it just ends up making it making me have to look for stuff in two places

00:40:18 ◼   ► It and maybe it's just me. Maybe it's the way spaces work

00:40:21 ◼   ► Of course spaces have changed how they work over the years, but it's a simplification. I really just same reason I don't have two monitors

00:40:26 ◼   ► I just want one big monitor and that's it

00:40:28 ◼   ► I must say though, I am surprised,

00:40:31 ◼   ► because you are such a window person

00:40:34 ◼   ► and you're so into spatial organization of your windows,

00:40:37 ◼   ► it does surprise me that both you don't want

00:40:39 ◼   ► a second monitor and that also you don't want

00:40:41 ◼   ► more space with spaces.

00:40:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, the idea is I want everything to be within reach

00:40:45 ◼   ► and if I have to do a gesture,

00:40:48 ◼   ► and it's also I don't use track pads,

00:40:49 ◼   ► like what Casey was saying,

00:40:50 ◼   ► I think having to be able to just,

00:40:52 ◼   ► when I use a very small laptop,

00:40:55 ◼   ► I'm more likely to both go full screen in apps

00:40:57 ◼   ► and use spaces because if you have that sort of swipe over

00:41:00 ◼   ► to find something, that is more natural,

00:41:02 ◼   ► but I don't use a trackpad on my desktop,

00:41:03 ◼   ► and so then it's like control left or right arrow

00:41:05 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:41:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a pretty easy shortcut.

00:41:08 ◼   ► - I know, but it just makes it feel like things

00:41:11 ◼   ► are farther away from my reach.

00:41:12 ◼   ► It's like putting things in a folder

00:41:14 ◼   ► in the iOS home screen.

00:41:17 ◼   ► It just makes things feel farther away from me, not closer.

00:41:19 ◼   ► I'd rather have them all on the same screen

00:41:21 ◼   ► in a big jumbled pile than spread out

00:41:22 ◼   ► on two different monitors.

00:41:24 ◼   ► - And this is the same reason why I can never use any mouse

00:41:27 ◼   ► but the magic mouse because on the magic mouse it's a two finger swipe to do the same action

00:41:32 ◼   ► and um and so from what i'm being told and from what i've seen in the chat just a moment

00:41:37 ◼   ► ago apparently it's still possible but it's moved into accessibility preferences which

00:41:43 ◼   ► is weird you saw it in the chat did you as well as the notes yes yes the notes didn't

00:41:49 ◼   ► i just say that i know but like you were like it may or may not be i the notes say unequivocally

00:41:54 ◼   ► with a link to a screenshot showing you where this option is in the accessibility prefs.

00:41:59 ◼   ► Well, I'm sorry I didn't do enough homework, John.

00:42:01 ◼   ► There's no, no, you gotta look for the question mark. Question mark was there.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Breaking news, breaking news, this is absolutely factual that this is in the accessibility

00:42:10 ◼   ► preference pane. My sources are telling me that that is absolutely true.

00:42:14 ◼   ► Your sources, you have anonymous tips are telling you, look at this,

00:42:18 ◼   ► look at the screenshot in the show notes.

00:42:22 ◼   ► Wow. Oh goodness. All right, last piece of follow-up. Port motivation sent in by Mila.

00:42:28 ◼   ► Yeah, this is another philosophical thing, and it ties into Skylake, which we kept

00:42:32 ◼   ► pushing off when we talked about its delay, but we'll talk about it a little bit later.

00:42:34 ◼   ► This is from Apple's website, I believe. "The most efficient way to charge a notebook is by

00:42:41 ◼   ► connecting to a charge report. As long as we are going to include a port for charging the new

00:42:44 ◼   ► MacBook, we wanted to make sure it was the most advanced and versatile one available."

00:42:48 ◼   ► This ties into also Schiller during the keynote saying,

00:42:52 ◼   ► you know, when's the most convenient time

00:42:53 ◼   ► to plug into a cable?

00:42:55 ◼   ► And this is a quote he says,

00:42:56 ◼   ► "That's when you want to charge quickly."

00:42:58 ◼   ► What do you mean charge quickly?

00:42:59 ◼   ► What do you mean the most efficient way

00:43:02 ◼   ► to charge a notebook?

00:43:03 ◼   ► Isn't it the only way to charge a notebook?

00:43:04 ◼   ► Charge quickly versus what?

00:43:05 ◼   ► Is there a slower way to charge a notebook?

00:43:07 ◼   ► Like that's it, you plug it in, right?

00:43:09 ◼   ► - So people are saying this is like an indication

00:43:11 ◼   ► of possible future inductive charging.

00:43:14 ◼   ► Let me offer an alternative interpretation of those lines.

00:43:17 ◼   ► I think the most efficient way to charge a notebook

00:43:21 ◼   ► is possibly related to power efficiency.

00:43:24 ◼   ► They made a point, Phil said,

00:43:25 ◼   ► it's the most energy efficient laptop

00:43:28 ◼   ► I think in the world right now,

00:43:29 ◼   ► at least that's what they said.

00:43:31 ◼   ► So it could just be,

00:43:32 ◼   ► 'cause induction charging I believe is,

00:43:35 ◼   ► we know it's slower,

00:43:35 ◼   ► I believe it's also less efficient energy waste wise.

00:43:39 ◼   ► Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

00:43:40 ◼   ► But so it could be related to that.

00:43:44 ◼   ► - So you think it's like the opposite,

00:43:45 ◼   ► like where they're saying

00:43:46 ◼   ► Other people may have wireless charging,

00:43:48 ◼   ► but the most efficient way to charge a notebook

00:43:50 ◼   ► is by plugging it in.

00:43:51 ◼   ► Is that what you're saying?

00:43:52 ◼   ► - It's very possible that was what he meant.

00:43:53 ◼   ► And also, when you wanna plug it in and charge quickly,

00:43:57 ◼   ► might have just meant like, you know,

00:43:59 ◼   ► it to kind of reinforce the idea that A,

00:44:02 ◼   ► the battery life is so great

00:44:03 ◼   ► that you're not gonna need to spend a lot of time

00:44:05 ◼   ► charging this.

00:44:06 ◼   ► B, you're gonna not be plugged in most of the time

00:44:09 ◼   ► so that, you know, you're gonna be unplugged

00:44:11 ◼   ► and wireless and free like using iPads.

00:44:13 ◼   ► And C, when you do plug in,

00:44:15 ◼   ► like he didn't want to make it sound like a burden.

00:44:18 ◼   ► So I think that's where those quotes were coming from.

00:44:21 ◼   ► I don't think they were like foreshadowing a future

00:44:24 ◼   ► of wireless charging notebooks,

00:44:26 ◼   ► which I still think for the most part are not a good idea

00:44:29 ◼   ► because you have to set like,

00:44:32 ◼   ► my electric toothbrush charges inductively

00:44:35 ◼   ► and it can do that because it is sitting on the charger

00:44:37 ◼   ► the vast majority of its existence.

00:44:40 ◼   ► You know, the vast majority of every day it's on the charger

00:44:43 ◼   ► and it's a really low power device.

00:44:45 ◼   ► A laptop does not fit that profile.

00:44:48 ◼   ► So for a laptop to be able to be inductively charged,

00:44:51 ◼   ► you have to be able to get a ton of current in there,

00:44:55 ◼   ► you know, relative to most inductive charging systems.

00:44:58 ◼   ► You just have to get a ton of current in there

00:44:59 ◼   ► from what, some giant pad you stick it on?

00:45:02 ◼   ► I mean, then you have to carry around a giant pad.

00:45:04 ◼   ► Like there's, it's one of those things

00:45:07 ◼   ► that sounds cool in theory, but in reality,

00:45:09 ◼   ► I don't think it ever will hit that for laptops,

00:45:12 ◼   ► at least not for a very long time.

00:45:14 ◼   ► - Well, this wireless charging business is,

00:45:16 ◼   ► and wireless stuff in general,

00:45:17 ◼   ► is part of Intel Skylake initiative.

00:45:20 ◼   ► They always have some technologies they're pushing along

00:45:22 ◼   ► with their new chips or whatever

00:45:24 ◼   ► that aren't really related technically.

00:45:25 ◼   ► Sometimes there's some support in the CPU

00:45:27 ◼   ► for something or other or the chip set.

00:45:28 ◼   ► But anyway, because this is part of their push,

00:45:31 ◼   ► it probably means that PC makers are going to

00:45:35 ◼   ► roll this out to some degree.

00:45:38 ◼   ► And maybe they'll be the ones to figure out,

00:45:40 ◼   ► like, are we at a point where this is something

00:45:43 ◼   ► people want to actually use yes or no.

00:45:45 ◼   ► I don't know what to make a read on Apple's choice

00:45:48 ◼   ► of words here.

00:45:49 ◼   ► All of your interpretations that you said Marco

00:45:51 ◼   ► could be true.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I think the one that probably seems the truest

00:45:56 ◼   ► is the idea that they are not planning

00:45:58 ◼   ► on doing wireless charger

00:45:59 ◼   ► and they are preemptively poo-pooing the idea

00:46:01 ◼   ► by saying, you know, plugging in is way more efficient.

00:46:03 ◼   ► You don't want that crappy wireless stuff.

00:46:05 ◼   ► We're all about plugging in.

00:46:06 ◼   ► You're gonna want to plug in.

00:46:08 ◼   ► And that's why, it's like when you want to charge quickly,

00:46:12 ◼   ► Like that's when you want to plug in a cable.

00:46:14 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:46:14 ◼   ► That interpretation rings the most true to me

00:46:17 ◼   ► that they are,

00:46:18 ◼   ► because they know they don't have wireless charging

00:46:20 ◼   ► available for sale now and PC makers will.

00:46:22 ◼   ► And they probably, if they don't,

00:46:24 ◼   ► if Skylight comes out and every PC maker says,

00:46:26 ◼   ► "Oh, and also charges wireless here or whatever,"

00:46:28 ◼   ► and Apple doesn't have it,

00:46:29 ◼   ► Apple will want to emphasize the fact

00:46:31 ◼   ► that they don't have it because it sucks.

00:46:32 ◼   ► Like we could have made it,

00:46:34 ◼   ► but it was not good enough for us.

00:46:35 ◼   ► That's why we don't have it.

00:46:36 ◼   ► Plugging in is way better.

00:46:37 ◼   ► - Right. Nobody wants to watch a video

00:46:38 ◼   ► on an iPod size screen.

00:46:40 ◼   ► - Right.

00:46:40 ◼   ► But if it is, if they can get it to work better.

00:46:43 ◼   ► And these are the other things.

00:46:44 ◼   ► This is what I have.

00:46:45 ◼   ► We're skipping out of the follow-up

00:46:46 ◼   ► and jumping right into the topics here.

00:46:48 ◼   ► Skylake's tech that they're promoting

00:46:51 ◼   ► is not just wireless charging,

00:46:53 ◼   ► but also this WiDi, which is not new,

00:46:56 ◼   ► wireless display and WiGig for faster,

00:46:59 ◼   ► shorter range display and WiGig hubs for USB and ethernet.

00:47:03 ◼   ► So like the idea is that you would just put your computer

00:47:05 ◼   ► down on your desk and there'll be a box on your desk

00:47:08 ◼   ► with an ethernet cable connected to it

00:47:09 ◼   ► and a bunch of USB things going into it.

00:47:11 ◼   ► And you don't have to plug anything in,

00:47:12 ◼   ► it's the ultimate docking station.

00:47:13 ◼   ► You just put your laptop down next to it

00:47:15 ◼   ► and your monitor lights up

00:47:17 ◼   ► with the picture from your laptop

00:47:18 ◼   ► and all your USB devices that are there mount on the thing

00:47:21 ◼   ► and you switch from Wi-Fi to ethernet.

00:47:24 ◼   ► That is something that Apple would love

00:47:25 ◼   ► that I think everyone would love.

00:47:27 ◼   ► And unlike wireless charging,

00:47:29 ◼   ► I don't see anything stopping these things

00:47:31 ◼   ► from being any worse or particularly worse

00:47:33 ◼   ► than having to plug in a USB or a Thunderbolt cable.

00:47:37 ◼   ► As long as the bandwidth is there

00:47:38 ◼   ► and if the technology works, you know,

00:47:40 ◼   ► that is an experience that office workers, I think,

00:47:43 ◼   ► would love and would not want to go back

00:47:45 ◼   ► to clipping their stupid PC into a docking station

00:47:47 ◼   ► or even plugging in a single USB cable.

00:47:49 ◼   ► It's a nicer experience just to sit down at your desk,

00:47:52 ◼   ► put your thing down, as long as it's within five feet

00:47:55 ◼   ► of that little box, you're good to go.

00:47:56 ◼   ► Like that seems like the future to me.

00:47:58 ◼   ► - Oh, I agree.

00:47:59 ◼   ► Every time I think about a Thunderbolt display,

00:48:02 ◼   ► I get jealous because I still have regular old Samsung

00:48:08 ◼   ► display at home, we have a litany of random displays

00:48:12 ◼   ► at work, and it would be amazing to just have one thing

00:48:16 ◼   ► that I plug everything into, and then that plugs

00:48:19 ◼   ► into my computer, or like you're saying, John,

00:48:21 ◼   ► maybe no plugs at all.

00:48:23 ◼   ► It would be phenomenal.

00:48:24 ◼   ► And I gotta be honest, every time I see somebody

00:48:27 ◼   ► just slam their Dell into one of these docking stations

00:48:29 ◼   ► and suddenly they have ethernet and displays

00:48:31 ◼   ► and power and everything else, I get a little jealous,

00:48:33 ◼   ► I really do.

00:48:35 ◼   ► - See, I would say like the no wires thing

00:48:39 ◼   ► is so much more difficult

00:48:40 ◼   ► and has so many potential issues and shortcomings.

00:48:44 ◼   ► I would say the ideal scenario here is the one wire method,

00:48:47 ◼   ► which we are now getting with USB-C.

00:48:50 ◼   ► So I mean, I think we're pretty much, we're there.

00:48:54 ◼   ► - Why do you think the no wire solution has problems?

00:48:56 ◼   ► It's like super short range.

00:48:57 ◼   ► It's like even shorter range than Bluetooth.

00:48:59 ◼   ► - Well, because then you have the issue of powering it.

00:49:01 ◼   ► Like, so you can have everything else except power,

00:49:03 ◼   ► so then how are you powering?

00:49:03 ◼   ► powering with some kind of induction.

00:49:05 ◼   ► - Oh no, yeah, not the power I'm talking about.

00:49:06 ◼   ► I'm talking about everything but the power.

00:49:08 ◼   ► I'm talking about just--

00:49:09 ◼   ► - But that's a big thing.

00:49:10 ◼   ► - I don't think it's that big a deal

00:49:11 ◼   ► because I think the signals,

00:49:13 ◼   ► sending wireless signals to these devices

00:49:15 ◼   ► is not going to be any,

00:49:17 ◼   ► it's gonna be less power than Wi-Fi

00:49:18 ◼   ► because it's shorter range, right?

00:49:19 ◼   ► So the power is not a concern for the transmission

00:49:22 ◼   ► and receiving end on the computer side.

00:49:24 ◼   ► And if you're just worried about the fact that,

00:49:26 ◼   ► well, now when I'm sitting at my desk,

00:49:27 ◼   ► I'm not charging my Mac,

00:49:29 ◼   ► that is the whole idea of like all day battery power,

00:49:31 ◼   ► you just charge it at the end of the day.

00:49:33 ◼   ► and I think that will cure it.

00:49:34 ◼   ► It already has cured itself for the bigger laptops

00:49:36 ◼   ► that even if you just wanna talk about

00:49:38 ◼   ► that 13-inch MacBook Air,

00:49:40 ◼   ► that gets, you know, you can work on it for an entire day,

00:49:42 ◼   ► you do not have to plug it in.

00:49:44 ◼   ► And if they can get the new MacBook up to that level,

00:49:47 ◼   ► which now it's probably borderline, but it's close,

00:49:50 ◼   ► then that's not an issue anymore.

00:49:52 ◼   ► Like your entire working,

00:49:53 ◼   ► the only time you would plug it in

00:49:54 ◼   ► is when you leave for the night, you know what I mean?

00:49:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I get that that's the dream.

00:50:00 ◼   ► I think reality is gonna be different for a long time.

00:50:03 ◼   ► - I think the modern laptops can make it through a day.

00:50:06 ◼   ► Like I see people going to meetings,

00:50:08 ◼   ► bringing the laptop, and I mean a lot of people I know

00:50:10 ◼   ► don't plug it in during the day.

00:50:11 ◼   ► If you have it at your house and you're not going anywhere,

00:50:13 ◼   ► then why not just plug it in, so maybe this isn't attractive.

00:50:16 ◼   ► But for business, all I see all day are people

00:50:18 ◼   ► with stupid docking stations who are constantly

00:50:20 ◼   ► plugging in or unplugging their thing to their big,

00:50:21 ◼   ► to the display is the big one.

00:50:22 ◼   ► 'Cause when they sit at their desk,

00:50:23 ◼   ► they don't wanna use the little laptop display,

00:50:25 ◼   ► they wanna use the big one, right?

00:50:26 ◼   ► Or the multiple displays.

00:50:27 ◼   ► And the constant plug-unplug, to be able to just plop it down

00:50:30 ◼   ► and use it, their battery will last an eight hour workday easy.

00:50:32 ◼   ► Well, unless they have to run Photoshop or Xcode or Flash.

00:50:36 ◼   ► And there's a list that keeps growing of the apps that make your CPU suck.

00:50:41 ◼   ► Yeah, Photoshop, I don't know if people are running back and forth in meetings with Photoshop

00:50:45 ◼   ► all the time, but I'm mostly just seeing people who are typing all day, so maybe that's just

00:50:48 ◼   ► the bias of being around a bunch of developers, right?

00:50:51 ◼   ► That they're web browsing and typing all day, and they're not even compiling code because

00:50:55 ◼   ► it's like the code is on the server, right?

00:50:56 ◼   ► So it's just a bunch of SSH windows or whatever.

00:50:59 ◼   ► I think the wireless display and wireless hubs like that

00:51:04 ◼   ► are very attractive to me, even for at-home use.

00:51:07 ◼   ► Hell, I would use it with my gigantic 50 pound Mac Pro,

00:51:11 ◼   ► just so I wouldn't have to have

00:51:12 ◼   ► all these stupid wires going all over the place.

00:51:14 ◼   ► Like that is a luxury that I'd be willing to pay for.

00:51:16 ◼   ► Just not to have to, for my USB hub,

00:51:18 ◼   ► if that could be connected with YGIG

00:51:20 ◼   ► and I don't have to figure out

00:51:20 ◼   ► how to fish all these wires all over the place,

00:51:22 ◼   ► I would buy that for a computer that never moves.

00:51:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, but then you'd have to upgrade your Mac Pro,

00:51:27 ◼   ► which would never happen, so.

00:51:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:29 ◼   ► - I know, I just attached some crazy ass,

00:51:31 ◼   ► hey, I've got PCI slots free, I can just put it in there.

00:51:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm sure that this technology will come

00:51:37 ◼   ► in PCI Express desktop slot format.

00:51:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's plenty of room in there.

00:51:42 ◼   ► Who knows, I could have a whole daughter card.

00:51:43 ◼   ► Hey, I could put a Mac Mini inside my Mac Pro's case

00:51:46 ◼   ► and just use that.

00:51:47 ◼   ► - Oh, God.

00:51:47 ◼   ► - You could fit many Mac Mini's inside your Mac Pro case.

00:51:49 ◼   ► - That's right, it's gonna get rid

00:51:50 ◼   ► of these two optical drives.

00:51:51 ◼   ► There's plenty of room in there.

00:51:53 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

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00:54:03 ◼   ► - Alright, is there anything else on Skylake

00:54:05 ◼   ► or do we wanna jump backwards in the notes

00:54:08 ◼   ► to model lineup?

00:54:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's a quickie left over from last week.

00:54:12 ◼   ► I think we can jump backwards to that briefly.

00:54:14 ◼   ► I put that in there to remind me,

00:54:17 ◼   ► This is kind of like a... on the eve of the Apple Watch release to the general public,

00:54:24 ◼   ► Tim Cook's first big new product category that, you know, that everyone cares about.

00:54:30 ◼   ► His first big test sort of getting out from under the shadow of Steve Jobs.

00:54:33 ◼   ► He's no longer the steward of the company taking control over it.

00:54:37 ◼   ► I started thinking back on like, what does Tim Cook's Apple look like and how does it

00:54:42 ◼   ► differ than Steve Jobs' Apple?

00:54:44 ◼   ► one particular way that I've seen a lot of people bringing up lately and thinking about

00:54:49 ◼   ► as well is what is Tim Cook's philosophy about the model lineup versus Steve Jobs?

00:54:55 ◼   ► And a lot of people talked about, oh, the model lineup is getting more complicated and

00:54:59 ◼   ► Steve Jobs loved to have a simplified product line and Tim Cook, even though he goes on

00:55:05 ◼   ► shows and says, all of Apple's products can fit on this table, when people post pictures

00:55:10 ◼   ► of the Apple website and say, just look at all these freaking options.

00:55:12 ◼   ► It's not like Dell.com yet, but there's a lot more products and a lot more options.

00:55:15 ◼   ► Granted, a lot of that has to do with the fashion and the watch bands and selling laptops

00:55:19 ◼   ► in different colors.

00:55:20 ◼   ► It's not really that big.

00:55:22 ◼   ► But what made me think about it the most was when they introduced the new MacBook, they

00:55:28 ◼   ► didn't get rid of the Airs.

00:55:29 ◼   ► In fact, they revised them.

00:55:32 ◼   ► And the history of Tim Cook's Apple of introducing new models but keeping the old ones around,

00:55:37 ◼   ► both as part of the overall iOS strategy but also for the Macs and stuff.

00:55:41 ◼   ► Steve Jobs style move would be to introduce the new MacBook and get rid of the errors. Why would he do that?

00:55:48 ◼   ► Because the the errors are crap, even if they were upgraded they wouldn't be as good. This new one is the future of laptops

00:55:55 ◼   ► This is what you should be using. This is the replacement for the errors

00:55:57 ◼   ► You know, we'll sell out the inventory we have but this is the future and people would complain because they would say but but but it

00:56:03 ◼   ► Doesn't do what the errors do here and that and there's no 11-inch model in this 11-inch model had Thunderbolt and all these things

00:56:09 ◼   ► And the Steve Jobs philosophy was always when they come out with the new thing

00:56:12 ◼   ► Everyone get on board. The new thing is the new thing

00:56:15 ◼   ► I'm the all I can't even look at the old thing and I can't even look at that old computer

00:56:18 ◼   ► it was so disgusting to me that we just need to get it out of line and

00:56:21 ◼   ► Tim Cook's philosophy is not like that Tim Cook's philosophy as far as I can tell is

00:56:26 ◼   ► Much more pragmatic to say although we think this is the best one and people should buy this

00:56:30 ◼   ► There's no harm in keeping the other ones around until we have and replacements

00:56:34 ◼   ► Well, in fact, we can revise them and make them a little bit better

00:56:36 ◼   ► Yeah, they're probably gonna be phased out

00:56:37 ◼   ► "but in the meantime, let's just keep selling them."

00:56:40 ◼   ► Basically, if people are buying them, keep selling them.

00:56:42 ◼   ► Why are we taking away models that people wanna buy

00:56:44 ◼   ► and trying to force them to buy the model

00:56:46 ◼   ► that we think they should buy, right?

00:56:48 ◼   ► And that, I think, if I'm even close in this,

00:56:51 ◼   ► and I don't have like huge dreams of supporting it,

00:56:54 ◼   ► and it's just a general feeling

00:56:55 ◼   ► from seeing the different model lines,

00:56:56 ◼   ► is one of the first things I've seen

00:56:59 ◼   ► that is a difference between Tim Cook's Apple

00:57:01 ◼   ► and Steve Jobs' Apple,

00:57:02 ◼   ► but besides things like, obviously, their demeanor

00:57:04 ◼   ► and the charitable contributions

00:57:08 ◼   ► and all that other stuff that's kind of extracurricular.

00:57:10 ◼   ► Talk about the products and the product lines themselves.

00:57:13 ◼   ► Tim Cook's Apple seems much more like a regular business

00:57:17 ◼   ► in that they're not gonna leave money on the table

00:57:19 ◼   ► but pulling products that people still wanna buy.

00:57:21 ◼   ► Whereas Steve Jobs' Apple would pull products

00:57:23 ◼   ► that people still wanna buy,

00:57:24 ◼   ► basically for philosophical reasons,

00:57:26 ◼   ► 'cause he can't stand to look at the old ones

00:57:27 ◼   ► 'cause the new one is better

00:57:29 ◼   ► and that's just what he wants to do.

00:57:30 ◼   ► And that is the strongest thing I've felt about

00:57:34 ◼   ► Tim Cook's Apple differs from Steve Jobs' Apple

00:57:37 ◼   ► I think in history of all the little things that we've ever talked about and I don't want to know if you guys like

00:57:41 ◼   ► Do you feel that as well or am I crazy and Steve Jobs did exactly the same thing as Tim Cook is doing it?

00:57:46 ◼   ► I'm just misremembering

00:57:47 ◼   ► No, I think this seems different during my

00:57:51 ◼   ► tenure as an Apple fan that I

00:57:55 ◼   ► wonder if this has to do with Tim being a

00:58:01 ◼   ► Supply chain guy and not fearing that not to say that that's what motivated Steve because I think you're right

00:58:06 ◼   ► I think Steve is motivated by this is the new hotness

00:58:09 ◼   ► You will like it or you will screw off and I think with Tim it's it's a little like you had said John

00:58:17 ◼   ► Well, what's it gonna hurt and and I think?

00:58:19 ◼   ► It's a lot of well

00:58:21 ◼   ► I know it's not gonna hurt anything because I used to do this and and I know how the supply chain works and I know

00:58:27 ◼   ► That this we can handle this. I mean does that sound reasonable?

00:58:30 ◼   ► It's not like that's applied to me. It's like bean counting, but that's that's a pejorative like it's not

00:58:34 ◼   ► You know

00:58:35 ◼   ► Oh

00:58:35 ◼   ► we can make a few extra cents here because like Apple did keep all models around when they had to and people in the chat room

00:58:40 ◼   ► Point out like they would they would often say this model will still be available but only for education purposes like Steve Jobs wasn't

00:58:45 ◼   ► Totally out of touch with the needs of the customers if there's some big important customer base

00:58:50 ◼   ► Which used to be education back in the day was saying like well education really needs this so we're gonna keep selling it

00:58:55 ◼   ► but we're only going to sell it to education rather than selling it to everybody and that

00:59:00 ◼   ► You know, I'm sure there have been cases where Steve Jobs did not immediately wipe out the new model with the old models with the new

00:59:06 ◼   ► But when he could you could tell that

00:59:08 ◼   ► I mean just you felt from him that

00:59:11 ◼   ► He wanted you to like this new one as much as he does and part of helping you along that path would be to take

00:59:17 ◼   ► Away the old one. So your only choice is the new one, right?

00:59:19 ◼   ► I mean, I think this is kind of a combination of factors, you know part of it is

00:59:24 ◼   ► Probably the Tim Cook, you know method or Tim Cook's principles

00:59:29 ◼   ► coming up, you know, where this is the way he chooses to run things. I think though this

00:59:33 ◼   ► did start under Steve. And it might have just corresponded with the rise of Tim Cook's authority

00:59:41 ◼   ► and power in the company. And as Steve started having more severe medical issues in his last

00:59:46 ◼   ► few years, as Tim, you know, ran more of the company, you know, so it might have been that

00:59:52 ◼   ► overlap. I think it's also a sign of Apple just maturing as a company. They now have

00:59:57 ◼   ► way more customers than they did before.

00:59:59 ◼   ► They have products that span much larger price ranges.

01:00:02 ◼   ► The old small product lines were all expensive.

01:00:06 ◼   ► Now they have products that start at moderate prices

01:00:10 ◼   ► and go into expensive.

01:00:12 ◼   ► So they have more product lines,

01:00:15 ◼   ► and also a lot of the technology really has slowed down.

01:00:19 ◼   ► I mean, the phones keep advancing pretty aggressively,

01:00:23 ◼   ► although even that's starting to slow down a little bit.

01:00:26 ◼   ► But if you look at the Mac books, or the Mac in general,

01:00:30 ◼   ► advancement in PCs has been,

01:00:33 ◼   ► and I'm including Macs in that,

01:00:35 ◼   ► advancement in PCs has been pretty slow

01:00:38 ◼   ► in the last five or 10 years.

01:00:40 ◼   ► The SSD transition was the big thing that happened.

01:00:43 ◼   ► And retina's happening mostly,

01:00:45 ◼   ► but it's happening more slowly.

01:00:47 ◼   ► Well, both of those are happening slowly.

01:00:48 ◼   ► But once you go retina and SSD, those are two big jumps,

01:00:52 ◼   ► and then CPUs have kind of gone nowhere

01:00:54 ◼   ► in the last few years.

01:00:55 ◼   ► they've made very small improvements at best.

01:00:57 ◼   ► Everything's kinda like, not at a standstill,

01:01:02 ◼   ► but certainly slowing down.

01:01:05 ◼   ► And so, hardware that was perfectly fine a few years ago

01:01:09 ◼   ► is still perfectly fine today.

01:01:11 ◼   ► The difference between the performance of the MacBook Air

01:01:16 ◼   ► versus the performance of the 15-inch matters a lot less

01:01:20 ◼   ► today from what most people do.

01:01:22 ◼   ► So there's all these,

01:01:24 ◼   ► it just seemed like the hardware has gotten so good

01:01:26 ◼   ► that you don't need to be in as big of a rush

01:01:29 ◼   ► to get rid of the old stuff.

01:01:30 ◼   ► And the new stuff isn't so dramatically much better

01:01:33 ◼   ► that everyone is forced or everyone is strongly encouraged

01:01:36 ◼   ► to buy it instead.

01:01:38 ◼   ► There's still room in the lineup.

01:01:39 ◼   ► And so by keeping old lines around

01:01:41 ◼   ► or by keeping more lines around

01:01:43 ◼   ► than the original Steve four boxes thing,

01:01:45 ◼   ► I think it allows them to serve way more customers

01:01:50 ◼   ► in a way that doesn't necessarily hurt anybody.

01:01:53 ◼   ► It's not really that confusing for the most part.

01:01:55 ◼   ► Occasionally there's some weird overlap,

01:01:57 ◼   ► but usually that's resolved within a couple years.

01:02:00 ◼   ► I just think for the most part,

01:02:01 ◼   ► this is just a sign of both the PC industry

01:02:05 ◼   ► and Apple maturing.

01:02:07 ◼   ► - I don't know if it's a maturing thing,

01:02:09 ◼   ► but because I can't decide which is particularly better,

01:02:14 ◼   ► which shows more maturity,

01:02:16 ◼   ► because the type of thing of keeping products around

01:02:19 ◼   ► is just like, well, that's what business always does.

01:02:21 ◼   ► It's not a new phenomenon.

01:02:22 ◼   ► It's not a sign of a young or an old company all companies do it because it's basically smart from a business perspective

01:02:26 ◼   ► Like if you want to give you money for a product keeps selling it to them until it doesn't make sense for you to sell

01:02:31 ◼   ► It to him for you guys not enough people buy it like the 17-inch MacBook or whatever whatever was called when it went away

01:02:36 ◼   ► Didn't go away. I'm assuming for philosophical reason when I guess not enough people buy them, right?

01:02:41 ◼   ► That's you know, that's why the Mac Pro didn't get updated for a long time, you know, like

01:02:44 ◼   ► Volumes can make you discontinue a product line. But when you have something like this where the new MacBook comes out

01:02:49 ◼   ► and

01:02:52 ◼   ► It basically obsoletes all the other, the Airs.

01:02:57 ◼   ► It should have just been called,

01:02:58 ◼   ► people expected it to be called an Air

01:02:59 ◼   ► and wipe out all the Airs, but it was like,

01:03:00 ◼   ► this is a discontinuity,

01:03:02 ◼   ► in the same way that the first Air was a discontinuity

01:03:04 ◼   ► and the first Unibody was a discontinuity

01:03:06 ◼   ► in their laptop design.

01:03:07 ◼   ► It's clearly, this is the spearhead

01:03:10 ◼   ► of the new design philosophy for laptops.

01:03:13 ◼   ► There's been generations where they just get revved,

01:03:14 ◼   ► revved, revved, and then retina,

01:03:16 ◼   ► and then this is like, I would say it's like,

01:03:21 ◼   ► Aluminum aluminum unibody first air, you know aluminum and then I guess first air was the first unit body

01:03:27 ◼   ► So that's two and one and then and then this and this is like totally removing ports

01:03:31 ◼   ► Slim at all cost retina like has has the screen of the pros

01:03:37 ◼   ► But the the power and size of the air is and like it's such an overlaps

01:03:43 ◼   ► like why keep you understand keeping like maybe an old thing around or a cheaper thing around or the non retina one around because it's

01:03:48 ◼   ► But like the overlap with the air is insane with this thing like it's like what what are you it?

01:03:54 ◼   ► It doesn't send a clear message

01:03:55 ◼   ► Are you saying this is the future of things, but you can still buy these other ones

01:03:58 ◼   ► Why would I buy these other ones when you go to an Apple store?

01:04:01 ◼   ► How will they explain to you to choose between?

01:04:03 ◼   ► The I guess it's like the the crappy screen versus non crappy screen

01:04:07 ◼   ► But why keep around the one with the crappy screen like I totally believe not that again

01:04:11 ◼   ► Not this makes it good or bad

01:04:12 ◼   ► But I totally believe the Steve Jobs would have

01:04:14 ◼   ► Gotten rid of the air's like he would have sold out the inventory and the new MacBook would have come out and that would have taken

01:04:19 ◼   ► The spot in the line and for a while their line would not be correctly proportioned

01:04:23 ◼   ► But eventually they would all convert and everything would be fine instead the Tim Cook model line philosophy is of course

01:04:29 ◼   ► You keep selling the areas eventually. We won't eventually they'll go away. Obviously, we're not gonna keep revving that line probably or if we do

01:04:34 ◼   ► They're going to they're going to transform to be things that have one or zero USB C ports on them

01:04:38 ◼   ► Right, like no one expects the heiress the next revision of the air still have Thunderbolt ports on them

01:04:43 ◼   ► Right, like they're going to all look like the new MacBook and so will the pros eventually in terms of the port layouts and everything

01:04:49 ◼   ► I am that is the new design philosophy and it's just weird to see them coexisting. I think the the jobs philosophy is

01:04:55 ◼   ► bolder and sort of

01:04:57 ◼   ► Expresses the intent of Apple like their vision of technology out into the world

01:05:01 ◼   ► In a way in a stronger way in the same way that annoys people because you take away their products

01:05:07 ◼   ► It sends the message to everyone else that like this is our vision of the future and we are leading

01:05:12 ◼   ► Right and then Tim Cook way is more sort of

01:05:14 ◼   ► This is our vision of the future, but we understand if you're not ready for it yet. We'd also have another product

01:05:19 ◼   ► It's actually pretty darn good, and you can still buy it eventually they'll go away

01:05:22 ◼   ► It seems more chill and it's less exciting to me as an observer

01:05:28 ◼   ► It's probably better for the business business wise short term

01:05:32 ◼   ► I don't know if it's better long term if taken to its logical conclusion

01:05:35 ◼   ► well you just

01:05:37 ◼   ► sell models forever until people stop buying them because I think people will continue to buy models that they

01:05:42 ◼   ► quote-unquote shouldn't

01:05:43 ◼   ► For a really long time and sometimes you have to sort of herd them along to the new model by taking away the old model

01:05:48 ◼   ► The same time you bring in the new ones. Yeah, that's fair

01:05:50 ◼   ► I mean

01:05:50 ◼   ► I think maybe a lot of it might have to do with how much of a compromise in certain ways the new one is

01:05:55 ◼   ► First the old one like the greatest example

01:05:57 ◼   ► I think of Steve killing off an old product when the new one came out was the iPad or the iPod

01:06:02 ◼   ► Mini going to the iPod nano

01:06:05 ◼   ► That was like the canonical example of like and he even said on stage is like the iPod mini was like our best-selling iPod ever

01:06:11 ◼   ► And we're discontinuing it today and people would have kept buying the mini if they kept selling it

01:06:15 ◼   ► It came in more colors people loved it the form factor and everything even though you'd look at it like who the hell would buy

01:06:20 ◼   ► This thing when the nano is out even though the nano scratches like hell, right?

01:06:23 ◼   ► But yeah, who the hell would buy this thing when the nano is available people would keep buying them because they came in

01:06:28 ◼   ► You know yellow and pink or whatever. They came in gold right the first gold thing, right and

01:06:32 ◼   ► like

01:06:34 ◼   ► By making that decision, it wasn't just bold

01:06:36 ◼   ► and showing their vision of the future,

01:06:37 ◼   ► it was forcing the world to move on faster

01:06:41 ◼   ► than they would have otherwise,

01:06:42 ◼   ► which is upsetting to some people,

01:06:44 ◼   ► but it's the advantage that Apple has,

01:06:48 ◼   ► that they can sort of herd their customer base along

01:06:51 ◼   ► at a faster clip than everybody else

01:06:52 ◼   ► because they're not afraid to take away

01:06:54 ◼   ► products the customers still like.

01:06:56 ◼   ► - Well, but in that example of the iPod Mini to Nano,

01:07:00 ◼   ► like the way the Nano was worse than the Mini

01:07:03 ◼   ► or more limiting were very small.

01:07:05 ◼   ► It had less capacity, but not by a whole lot.

01:07:07 ◼   ► I think it was like six gigs versus four,

01:07:09 ◼   ► something like that.

01:07:10 ◼   ► So it was a relatively small drop in capacity.

01:07:14 ◼   ► - It was a first gen product

01:07:15 ◼   ► that got scratches all over it.

01:07:17 ◼   ► That's the whole thing.

01:07:17 ◼   ► If you're saying this is the bold new vision

01:07:19 ◼   ► and if your first gen project has some sort of problems,

01:07:21 ◼   ► you're like, oh, well, I'll just buy the old one.

01:07:23 ◼   ► Oh, wait, I can't, they took that one away.

01:07:25 ◼   ► - Well, but for the most part,

01:07:26 ◼   ► I don't think people are doing that kind of calculus

01:07:27 ◼   ► of like, oh, well, let me just wait till the problem surface

01:07:30 ◼   ► and buy the old one.

01:07:31 ◼   ► I don't think anybody except you

01:07:32 ◼   ► puts that much thought into that.

01:07:33 ◼   ► But that was an easy transition to force

01:07:36 ◼   ► because the new one was a lot better

01:07:39 ◼   ► in some really critical ways.

01:07:41 ◼   ► And the ways in which it was worse than the old one

01:07:45 ◼   ► or more limiting were fairly minor.

01:07:47 ◼   ► Whereas when you look at something like now,

01:07:50 ◼   ► the new MacBook versus the MacBook Air,

01:07:53 ◼   ► the ways in which it is worse or more limiting

01:07:56 ◼   ► than the old one are pretty big still.

01:07:58 ◼   ► Like it's pretty substantial.

01:08:00 ◼   ► like the port differences are massive,

01:08:03 ◼   ► the keyboard might be significantly worse,

01:08:06 ◼   ► we don't know yet, we'll see.

01:08:08 ◼   ► And then in these new ways it is way better,

01:08:10 ◼   ► it is thinner, lighter,

01:08:12 ◼   ► somewhat longer battery life

01:08:14 ◼   ► at least compared to the 11 inch probably.

01:08:17 ◼   ► It's also, although unfortunately,

01:08:19 ◼   ► it's also probably a lot slower CPU wise.

01:08:22 ◼   ► So, you know, there's this one,

01:08:25 ◼   ► I think it's, you can look at the easy transition,

01:08:30 ◼   ► of the iPod Mini to Nano, that's a no brainer.

01:08:35 ◼   ► The MacBook Air to new MacBook,

01:08:37 ◼   ► I think forcing that on people,

01:08:39 ◼   ► not leaving that old option behind

01:08:40 ◼   ► until some of the stuff shakes out and matures,

01:08:43 ◼   ► that would be I think a lot more damaging,

01:08:44 ◼   ► especially because the MacBook Air line,

01:08:49 ◼   ► maybe not the 11, I don't know, but probably the 13,

01:08:52 ◼   ► that's probably their best selling computer.

01:08:54 ◼   ► - Well that's the Tim Cook reason not to get rid of it,

01:08:57 ◼   ► 'cause people are still buying a ton of them,

01:08:58 ◼   ► and like the Steve Jobs would be like,

01:08:59 ◼   ► I don't care again the the iPod mini people are buying a ton of them

01:09:03 ◼   ► I'm thinking of even a more boring one like when the the I forget what you want to call

01:09:07 ◼   ► But the the iMac with the big metal arm with the first flat panel iMac or that one yeah, right?

01:09:12 ◼   ► So the previous iMacs with the CRT is with all the pretty colors people would have kept buying them too

01:09:16 ◼   ► Especially if they were slightly cheaper or got slightly cheaper when the thing came out

01:09:19 ◼   ► Or well apparently we're not gonna get to again this week, but the Apple TV is another example

01:09:25 ◼   ► Do you think they'll keep selling the $69 one when the new one comes out? Maybe it's I think they've already told us

01:09:31 ◼   ► They will it's a Tim Cook kind of thing to do right but a Steve Jobs thing is this is the new Apple TV and the

01:09:35 ◼   ► Old one is gone. This is the new iMac and the old iMac is gone, right?

01:09:38 ◼   ► Well, I believe the whole thing everyone's jumping on about how they said the Apple TV starting at 69

01:09:44 ◼   ► I think that tells you right there that that I don't think you need to see that to know that a new Apple TV is

01:09:48 ◼   ► Come look if they're gonna do the Apple TV as a product

01:09:50 ◼   ► They have to revise it sometime and when they drop them and they drop the price on the old one, of course

01:09:54 ◼   ► they're gonna, yeah.

01:09:55 ◼   ► - No, but I'm saying like that I think indicates that

01:09:57 ◼   ► you know, it's not gonna, this isn't gonna,

01:09:59 ◼   ► this isn't gonna be for sale at this price

01:10:01 ◼   ► and then for you know, six months or whatever

01:10:03 ◼   ► and then be discontinued.

01:10:05 ◼   ► I think they're gonna, it's just gonna be

01:10:06 ◼   ► the bottom of the line.

01:10:07 ◼   ► It's gonna keep being sold forever.

01:10:08 ◼   ► We're gonna have A5, look they're still selling

01:10:10 ◼   ► the freaking iPod touch.

01:10:11 ◼   ► That's less updated than what, 2012?

01:10:14 ◼   ► - I know, I know.

01:10:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean like.

01:10:16 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:10:16 ◼   ► - Well that's just saying, this type of philosophy,

01:10:20 ◼   ► the Tim Cook's Apple philosophy

01:10:22 ◼   ► And maybe the tail end of Steve Jobs' Apple philosophy was,

01:10:25 ◼   ► you keep selling products as long as people keep wanting

01:10:29 ◼   ► to buy them within reason.

01:10:31 ◼   ► Like, you know, eventually not enough people wanna buy them

01:10:35 ◼   ► or there's no place in your product line for it.

01:10:37 ◼   ► But if there's still a place in your product line,

01:10:39 ◼   ► we'll just, you know, like the iPod touch,

01:10:40 ◼   ► why the iPod touch still even exist?

01:10:42 ◼   ► Well, I mean, they don't sell a lot of them.

01:10:44 ◼   ► We see their sales number.

01:10:44 ◼   ► It's not as if tons of people are selling them,

01:10:46 ◼   ► but enough people are buying them that it's like,

01:10:49 ◼   ► well, why not?

01:10:51 ◼   ► Whereas at this point, I think Steve Jobs

01:10:53 ◼   ► would have lost faith in the iPod Touch as a product

01:10:55 ◼   ► and just canned it.

01:10:57 ◼   ► - I mean, they're still selling the non-Retina MacBook Pro

01:11:00 ◼   ► with the DVD-ROM drive.

01:11:02 ◼   ► - I know, I know, with the optical drive.

01:11:03 ◼   ► Again, because optical drives,

01:11:05 ◼   ► we're taking the optical drives away.

01:11:06 ◼   ► Soon they'll be gone from all our products,

01:11:07 ◼   ► except this one thing will linger on forever,

01:11:09 ◼   ► because we know there's somehow enough people

01:11:11 ◼   ► who wanna buy it with an optical drive.

01:11:12 ◼   ► And it's not just, education's another thing.

01:11:14 ◼   ► Like corporate sales or education,

01:11:16 ◼   ► where it's like we demand this and we're a big customer,

01:11:19 ◼   ► they've always been able to,

01:11:20 ◼   ► as we've said in the past shows,

01:11:21 ◼   ► Apple used to make specific products just for education.

01:11:25 ◼   ► Like that's how important education was as a customer.

01:11:27 ◼   ► Now they'll just keep all the ones around,

01:11:28 ◼   ► but they're just, you know,

01:11:29 ◼   ► having the one with the CD drive in it

01:11:31 ◼   ► or having non-retina MacBooks still for sale

01:11:35 ◼   ► or having the Air still for sale,

01:11:36 ◼   ► it's not so much that it confuses the line,

01:11:40 ◼   ► but it is definitely not like Apple clearly speaking out

01:11:44 ◼   ► and saying, "This is the future, these are our products."

01:11:46 ◼   ► And I think Tim Cook's table where he keeps all the products

01:11:49 ◼   ► is gonna have to be a pretty darn big table pretty soon.

01:11:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean that big glass watch box

01:11:55 ◼   ► takes up probably half the table now.

01:11:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, the watches you can put in a jumble in a pile,

01:11:58 ◼   ► but you gotta have all those different varieties

01:12:01 ◼   ► of MacBooks and the big iMacs,

01:12:04 ◼   ► and I guess you can put the two Mac Pros, anyway.

01:12:06 ◼   ► - Does each color of like the iPads and everything,

01:12:08 ◼   ► does each color count?

01:12:09 ◼   ► Although if you line iPads up like a bookshelf,

01:12:12 ◼   ► like on their ends and like just stick them between.

01:12:15 ◼   ► - Exactly, you just stack them, yeah, they're stackable.

01:12:17 ◼   ► But yeah, I guess you could stack the laptops too.

01:12:20 ◼   ► I think that's the strategy.

01:12:21 ◼   ► It's the 3D strategy, just stacking.

01:12:23 ◼   ► All of our products fold flat except for, I guess,

01:12:25 ◼   ► the iMac and the tubes we can kind of stack like cord would.

01:12:28 ◼   ► So you can get them all on the table.

01:12:30 ◼   ► Someone should do that.

01:12:31 ◼   ► Someone who had too much money should say,

01:12:33 ◼   ► "How big a table do you need to put all the products

01:12:35 ◼   ► "Apple sells in it?"

01:12:36 ◼   ► And I mean all of them.

01:12:36 ◼   ► I want all the colors, all the bands for all the watches,

01:12:39 ◼   ► all the different models of iPads with different Wi-Fi

01:12:42 ◼   ► and the colors for the iPads too.

01:12:44 ◼   ► Anyway, yeah.

01:12:46 ◼   ► That was my thought on the model line philosophy.

01:12:49 ◼   ► - All right, we good?

01:12:51 ◼   ► - Before we forget, since it's been an entire show

01:12:55 ◼   ► plus an entire hour since the Nintendo thing was announced

01:12:58 ◼   ► and we still haven't talked about it,

01:12:59 ◼   ► let's talk about the Nintendo thing now.

01:13:01 ◼   ► - All right, so John, who did Nintendo sell to?

01:13:05 ◼   ► - Nobody in South, anyway, they did a partnership deal

01:13:08 ◼   ► with DNA, which is spelled capital D lowercase E,

01:13:11 ◼   ► capital N, capital A, instead of Dana,

01:13:13 ◼   ► which would be better.

01:13:14 ◼   ► - I've been saying Dina in my head.

01:13:15 ◼   ► I guess that you're what makes a lot more sense.

01:13:17 ◼   ► - It's DNA.

01:13:19 ◼   ► And as a partnership with them,

01:13:20 ◼   ► they're a company that makes mobile games.

01:13:22 ◼   ► And this is basically Nintendo saying,

01:13:24 ◼   ► "We don't know how to make mobile games.

01:13:27 ◼   ► We need mobile games quickly.

01:13:29 ◼   ► We don't have time to learn how to make mobile games.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Therefore, this company that we're going to partner with

01:13:35 ◼   ► will make mobile games for us

01:13:37 ◼   ► using our intellectual property."

01:13:39 ◼   ► I would imagine that Nintendo is still in a position

01:13:42 ◼   ► strong enough to make this partnership

01:13:44 ◼   ► the way they usually do, which is,

01:13:46 ◼   ► you will make a game for us,

01:13:49 ◼   ► but we will tell you that your game is crappy

01:13:51 ◼   ► and tell you how to change it.

01:13:52 ◼   ► So like when Retro Studios made Metroid Prime,

01:13:55 ◼   ► oh, Retro Studios, they're making Metroid Prime, right?

01:13:57 ◼   ► Yeah, they're making Metroid Prime,

01:13:58 ◼   ► and then Miyamoto comes and tells them

01:13:59 ◼   ► how their game sucks and how they have to change it.

01:14:02 ◼   ► And they repeat that process over and over again

01:14:04 ◼   ► until Miyamoto is satisfied,

01:14:05 ◼   ► and then you get to release what you call Metroid Prime.

01:14:07 ◼   ► And it's like, we want you to do the part

01:14:09 ◼   ► that you're good at, which is we have no idea

01:14:11 ◼   ► how to do this mobile development stuff.

01:14:12 ◼   ► But I would imagine that Nintendo is still in the same kind of position Apple is in with

01:14:18 ◼   ► its suppliers.

01:14:19 ◼   ► We are Nintendo.

01:14:20 ◼   ► We'll tell you when you've done a good enough job.

01:14:22 ◼   ► This partnership deal heavily favors us.

01:14:24 ◼   ► But it is a partnership deal.

01:14:26 ◼   ► This is not a strength move.

01:14:27 ◼   ► This is a sign of weakness, a sign that we need money.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Our products aren't selling because we made bad choices when we designed them.

01:14:37 ◼   ► We need games.

01:14:38 ◼   ► We need revenue.

01:14:39 ◼   ► We can't ignore mobile.

01:14:40 ◼   ► also can't make mobile games on our own. I think partnering is probably a good idea because

01:14:45 ◼   ► Nintendo has shown they are fairly incompetent at all the parts of making games except for

01:14:50 ◼   ► the part where you play the game. Like networking, friend systems, the equivalent of Xbox Live

01:14:55 ◼   ► type stuff, app stores. Trying to buy, digitally buy games from Nintendo is like pulling teeth.

01:15:00 ◼   ► It's like have they never, you know, the joke is always like that all Nintendo's employees

01:15:05 ◼   ► are never allowed to use any other game system nor are they allowed to have smartphones.

01:15:09 ◼   ► they're probably not also allowed to use the internet.

01:15:11 ◼   ► And that's why they have no idea

01:15:12 ◼   ► how the rest of the world works.

01:15:14 ◼   ► So, you know, if you find yourself entering friend codes

01:15:16 ◼   ► or trying to buy something from the eShop

01:15:18 ◼   ► and going through 8,000 steps

01:15:19 ◼   ► or trying to transfer your stuff

01:15:20 ◼   ► from one of Nintendo's platforms to another

01:15:22 ◼   ► and taking a million steps for that

01:15:24 ◼   ► involving swapping SD cards

01:15:26 ◼   ► or realizing that your games are tied to your hardware,

01:15:28 ◼   ► not to use your account,

01:15:29 ◼   ► which is just mind boggling in its wrongness and craziness

01:15:32 ◼   ► and being out of step with the rest of the industry.

01:15:35 ◼   ► All that leads me to believe

01:15:36 ◼   ► they made the right move by partnering, but it's not a strength move. It's kind of a sad

01:15:41 ◼   ► situation and I'm not quite sure what's going to come of it. A partnership deal doesn't

01:15:45 ◼   ► mean anything. They haven't announced any games. All they said is all of Nintendo's

01:15:49 ◼   ► intellectual property is up for grabs and hopefully some fruit will come from this in

01:15:54 ◼   ► the future. They've also said by the way they're not porting their games, which means this

01:15:58 ◼   ► company is going to be making new games, so don't expect "insert your favorite Nintendo

01:16:02 ◼   ► game here" is going to appear on your mobile phone because it's not. They are absolutely

01:16:05 ◼   ► not porting any of their games, which means they have to make new games, and those new

01:16:08 ◼   ► games I think are not going to be what Nintendo fans want.

01:16:12 ◼   ► It's not like, "Oh, I would love it, a 2D side-scrolling Metroid on my phone."

01:16:16 ◼   ► I'm thinking that's not what you're going to get.

01:16:18 ◼   ► I'm thinking you're going to get something more like the Pokemon Shuffle game they made

01:16:22 ◼   ► for the 3DS that's like, it's a simpler mobile-style focused game using Nintendo intellectual property,

01:16:30 ◼   ► but it is not, "Let me just take what I think of as a typical Nintendo console or handheld

01:16:34 ◼   ► game and shove it onto a mobile phone because A) that wouldn't work and B) that's just

01:16:38 ◼   ► not what this partnership seems like it's about to me.

01:16:41 ◼   ► Well I think, I don't think that's as big of a problem as some people are going to say

01:16:45 ◼   ► because Nintendo's fans are already buying their stuff. This is not to attract Nintendo's

01:16:52 ◼   ► fans to suddenly start playing Nintendo games on their smartphones. Because if you're

01:16:56 ◼   ► a Nintendo fan you already have one of their systems or at least one of their systems and

01:17:00 ◼   ► you know you're already buying all their little plastic accessories and everything

01:17:03 ◼   ► and you're fine. This is trying, I would assume, this is trying to attract new customers who

01:17:10 ◼   ► don't, who aren't yet Nintendo fans. And this I think is going to be a real uphill battle

01:17:15 ◼   ► for them. I really don't see this succeeding. I mean, I could be wrong, I'm wrong about

01:17:19 ◼   ► a lot of things, but I think this is going to be tough because, you know, the risk of

01:17:25 ◼   ► the games being crappy, or at least nothing special, is very high. You know, as you said,

01:17:31 ◼   ► It sounds like Nintendo's basically, you know, I mean they bought a chunk of DNA so, you

01:17:37 ◼   ► know, they're serious about it but I think these are basically just gonna be DNA games

01:17:43 ◼   ► that happen to include Nintendo characters in them.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Well that's where I was getting into Miyamoto coming and scolding them because their game's

01:17:49 ◼   ► not good enough because I imagine like this partnership, whatever the deal is, like they

01:17:53 ◼   ► buy 10% of the company and it's like the partnership, Nintendo is the senior partner here by a lot

01:17:58 ◼   ► And so they have a lot of control over how...

01:18:01 ◼   ► Like, because they're saying you can use any of our IP,

01:18:04 ◼   ► I think Nintendo is still going to be very protective of its IP

01:18:07 ◼   ► and not inclined to release a game that's terrible.

01:18:09 ◼   ► And I think you're right about like, this is aimed at...

01:18:11 ◼   ► It's money that's been left on the table.

01:18:13 ◼   ► It's saying, look, these people are never going to buy a Nintendo console,

01:18:16 ◼   ► but they would totally willingly buy a $1 iOS game featuring Mario.

01:18:21 ◼   ► Why are we not taking their money?

01:18:23 ◼   ► It's not even like we expect them to go out and buy a 3DS or Wii U.

01:18:26 ◼   ► It's just like they will buy this iOS game. It won't cost us that much to make it. Why are we not making it for them?

01:18:32 ◼   ► It's not like we're saying. Oh, we're gonna make this game instead of instead of a new real Mario game

01:18:36 ◼   ► We're gonna make this game instead of a new console Metroid

01:18:38 ◼   ► No, they're gonna still make all those games. But why are we not taking these people's money or looking at the nicer way?

01:18:44 ◼   ► Why are we not giving them some cute little you know?

01:18:47 ◼   ► Mobile game featuring our characters to play why not?

01:18:50 ◼   ► What what is you know?

01:18:51 ◼   ► And the reason was because we have no idea how to do that and we're really bad at making that those parts of the games

01:18:56 ◼   ► But we don't need to build those expertise in-house. We don't need to be distract our engineers from there. You know working on our next generation

01:19:04 ◼   ► handheld console project

01:19:07 ◼   ► We can just partner with this and then we can drive this partner who is the the junior partner to make sure that they are

01:19:13 ◼   ► respectable or intellectual property and release a game that is at the very least a

01:19:17 ◼   ► Good game and is competent is gonna set the world on fire is it gonna be great

01:19:21 ◼   ► It maybe won't even sell as much as cross your road, but it will I think they'll be profitable right because

01:19:26 ◼   ► Because DNA, like you said, already has the ability to make these games.

01:19:30 ◼   ► The intellectual property is the real valuable thing, and that's what's going to make someone

01:19:33 ◼   ► buy this game versus any other random game with less recognizable characters.

01:19:39 ◼   ► And the secondary effect is, possibly, it could have the effect of scrubbing at least

01:19:43 ◼   ► the iOS store clean of the million games that have pictures of Mario and Zelda in them.

01:19:48 ◼   ► Well, so the idea that people will value these games higher because they have Nintendo IP

01:19:54 ◼   ► in them, I'm not sure that's a given.

01:19:57 ◼   ► - Oh, it's a given.

01:19:58 ◼   ► They will buy them more.

01:20:00 ◼   ► I don't know if they'll value them higher,

01:20:01 ◼   ► but they'll be more likely to buy them.

01:20:02 ◼   ► - Well, some people will be more likely to buy them,

01:20:04 ◼   ► but I would bet the vast majority of people

01:20:07 ◼   ► who buy games on iOS have never heard of Mario.

01:20:10 ◼   ► They don't, they don't--

01:20:11 ◼   ► - Everybody's heard of Mario.

01:20:12 ◼   ► More people have heard of him than Mickey Mouse.

01:20:16 ◼   ► - I would bet that the average age of iOS game buyers

01:20:20 ◼   ► is low, first of all, lower than 35.

01:20:24 ◼   ► so, you know, lower than us basically,

01:20:27 ◼   ► by a significant amount.

01:20:29 ◼   ► And if the people they're trying to attract

01:20:32 ◼   ► are new fans who don't already have Nintendo allegiance,

01:20:37 ◼   ► they've probably never owned a Nintendo system.

01:20:40 ◼   ► - It's not that they're new fans,

01:20:42 ◼   ► it's that they are people who,

01:20:43 ◼   ► it's like the same way that you're aware of Mickey Mouse,

01:20:45 ◼   ► maybe you never go to Disney World.

01:20:47 ◼   ► It's like, I'm never gonna buy a Nintendo console

01:20:50 ◼   ► 'cause I'm an Xbox guy.

01:20:51 ◼   ► But I heard of all those Nintendo characters,

01:20:52 ◼   ► And I will buy a $1 game, and I'm more likely to buy the $1 game that has Mario in it.

01:20:57 ◼   ► In fact, the Mario $1 game is more likely to be advertised, to be featured, for my friends to have bought it.

01:21:02 ◼   ► It's just, it's...

01:21:03 ◼   ► It is...

01:21:04 ◼   ► The intellectual property drives this, and as you said before, it could drive it in a way that it makes people buy crappy games.

01:21:10 ◼   ► I'm hoping the games at least be reasonable, but it's not like you're trying to convert them,

01:21:14 ◼   ► and it's not like you're going to find people who've never heard of Mario.

01:21:16 ◼   ► You're finding people who, "Yeah, I've heard of Mario, but I'm still never going to buy a Nintendo console."

01:21:20 ◼   ► But you will tap the button for 99 cents.

01:21:22 ◼   ► Also, you forget Marco that consoles at least the way I define them aren't necessarily tied to a TV

01:21:29 ◼   ► I mean there are gazillion

01:21:31 ◼   ► handheld Nintendo devices out there and as far as I knew even

01:21:36 ◼   ► Reasonably little kids today are still using like 3ds and things like that. I don't know John

01:21:42 ◼   ► You could probably tell me better than the 3ds has been more successful than the Wii U

01:21:46 ◼   ► Which is not saying much because the Wii U has been very honest and the rumors of the next generation project there

01:21:51 ◼   ► These are old rumors so who knows what the hell's to your now is the idea that they would be unifying their platform so that they

01:21:56 ◼   ► Are not so different to develop for whether that means they're gonna release something that works as a handheld system

01:22:00 ◼   ► But can also hook up to your TV or whether it just means that they're gonna use the same underlying technology

01:22:05 ◼   ► So there's not this Gulf so they have to develop a game twice because the you know in the same way that desktop and laptop

01:22:11 ◼   ► Performance has been becoming closer now handheld performance and at least in the use case you you can imagine Nintendo making a single

01:22:20 ◼   ► Writing a game that runs both on their TV connected console and on their handheld one whether those are two separate devices or not

01:22:26 ◼   ► Basically because handheld consoles have good a good enough graphics now that you wouldn't be embarrassed to see them on the TV

01:22:31 ◼   ► And that was that has you know many years ago. That was not the case. They've been

01:22:35 ◼   ► converging towards each other so

01:22:37 ◼   ► Yeah, that has little to do with this. I think this has entirely to do with

01:22:41 ◼   ► What about the people who are never going to buy or play any of those type of games?

01:22:46 ◼   ► They they only will they will only ever buy games in their phone. Why are we not selling them something?

01:22:50 ◼   ► All right. No, I'm responding to Marco saying nobody knows who Mario is in so many words.

01:22:56 ◼   ► And I think that a lot more people know who Mario is, even today, even young people than

01:23:01 ◼   ► you would suspect. Another thing that I don't think we're considering is I've got to imagine

01:23:07 ◼   ► that if Nintendo released a game in the App Store, that Apple will fall all over them

01:23:14 ◼   ► and there'll be featured and there'll be all sorts of App Store marketing. And I suspect

01:23:19 ◼   ► that you will definitely see that all over the App Store.

01:23:23 ◼   ► - I just saw a screenshot today on Twitter

01:23:25 ◼   ► of a game called Apple Watch It,

01:23:27 ◼   ► which is a great name,

01:23:28 ◼   ► Apple space watch space it exclamation point.

01:23:31 ◼   ► And the icon is link as in Nintendo's intellectual property.

01:23:34 ◼   ► That's the icon for the app, by the way,

01:23:36 ◼   ► shooting an arrow in the game,

01:23:37 ◼   ► I think is like you're using using link in the game

01:23:40 ◼   ► to shoot an arrow off the head of somebody.

01:23:41 ◼   ► So it's got the Apple Watch, like, you know,

01:23:44 ◼   ► keyword trolling, and it's getting Nintendo intellectual

01:23:46 ◼   ► property in the fricking icon and in the game.

01:23:49 ◼   ► and that is like on the App Store right now.

01:23:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, Underscore tweeted that earlier.

01:23:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I was like.

01:23:54 ◼   ► - It's fantastic.

01:23:55 ◼   ► - I mean, I know it's not Apple's responsibility

01:23:56 ◼   ► to police these things, but.

01:23:57 ◼   ► - No, it is.

01:23:58 ◼   ► - You would think that Nintendo would wake up,

01:24:00 ◼   ► like Nintendo could hire one person all day

01:24:03 ◼   ► just to go through the iOS store

01:24:05 ◼   ► and just send cease and desist letters,

01:24:07 ◼   ► and like, 'cause you know,

01:24:08 ◼   ► Apple will take them off the store in a second.

01:24:10 ◼   ► - Well, they used to.

01:24:12 ◼   ► - Oh, they will, they will take them.

01:24:13 ◼   ► I mean, all they need, it's bureaucracy.

01:24:16 ◼   ► All you need is your own bureaucrat

01:24:17 ◼   ► to communicate with their bureaucrats

01:24:19 ◼   ► bureaucrat ease and everything. It would be great if Nintendo could get the sweet deal

01:24:25 ◼   ► that music and video copyright owners have with YouTube, where YouTube does the policing

01:24:32 ◼   ► for them and just takes down anything that looks like it might be copyrighted in any

01:24:36 ◼   ► way, like preemptively takes it down.

01:24:38 ◼   ► Well, that's partly because I mean, YouTube was a platform that was created and thrived

01:24:43 ◼   ► on completely ripping off everything from everybody. I mean, I know it's different now,

01:24:47 ◼   ► but that's like, that's its origin.

01:24:49 ◼   ► - But the fact that they'll do it preemptively

01:24:52 ◼   ► and on behalf, like Apple system is one actually

01:24:54 ◼   ► that makes sense.

01:24:55 ◼   ► It's like, look, it's not our job

01:24:56 ◼   ► to police your intellectual property.

01:24:57 ◼   ► If you see someone violating your intellectual property,

01:24:59 ◼   ► tell us and even then Apple will favor,

01:25:01 ◼   ► will assume that you are right and take it down, I think.

01:25:04 ◼   ► But like YouTube, like the big thing is like,

01:25:06 ◼   ► who is it who does the Every Frame a Painting channel

01:25:10 ◼   ► on YouTube, which is great by the way.

01:25:13 ◼   ► He puts up videos that, you know,

01:25:14 ◼   ► that talk about scenes from films.

01:25:16 ◼   ► And of course, you know, all the videos have scenes

01:25:17 ◼   ► from different movies, but it's fair use

01:25:19 ◼   ► because it's like he's using it to talk about film, right?

01:25:21 ◼   ► He's not putting the entire movie up,

01:25:22 ◼   ► but there is a scene from the movie in the video

01:25:24 ◼   ► and his videos always get taken down.

01:25:26 ◼   ► They just automatically get taken down

01:25:27 ◼   ► for copyright violations.

01:25:28 ◼   ► And then he has to go through this bureaucratic process

01:25:31 ◼   ► where they tell him he has to take it down

01:25:33 ◼   ► and he has to fill out a form and say it's fair use

01:25:35 ◼   ► and then they deny him and then you go back and forth

01:25:36 ◼   ► and back and forth.

01:25:37 ◼   ► Eventually they go back up after like three days,

01:25:39 ◼   ► a week, a month.

01:25:40 ◼   ► It's terrible that like you are presumed guilty

01:25:44 ◼   ► and have to prove your innocence.

01:25:45 ◼   ► And it's not even proving

01:25:46 ◼   ► It's just a big machine sending out like we noticed that you're using copyright stuff

01:25:50 ◼   ► We take you down immediately if you think this is an error

01:25:53 ◼   ► Please fill out these 18 forms and fight with this record company

01:25:55 ◼   ► Moo-boo studio or whatever until they give up like and the movie story really cared they can just say

01:26:01 ◼   ► We're taking this all the way to court

01:26:02 ◼   ► And then you then they win because you can't afford to hire a lawyer

01:26:04 ◼   ► But for the most part it's just a matter of filling out forms repeatedly to get YouTube to bring it back up

01:26:08 ◼   ► But anyway what I'm getting as the Nintendo should at least have somebody looking at the friggin star and filling out the forms right instead of

01:26:14 ◼   ► just letting them linger there because this shows

01:26:17 ◼   ► that this was Nintendo's blind spot.

01:26:20 ◼   ► Why are you pretending mobile games don't exist on phones?

01:26:23 ◼   ► Why can't you put something there?

01:26:25 ◼   ► Which is very different than the idea Nintendo,

01:26:27 ◼   ► you should stop making consoles,

01:26:29 ◼   ► you should stop making handhelds,

01:26:30 ◼   ► you should stop making games that work on consoles

01:26:32 ◼   ► and handhelds and concentrate entirely on making games

01:26:34 ◼   ► that work on mobile devices,

01:26:36 ◼   ► which is not what they're doing.

01:26:38 ◼   ► But the fact that they have to go do this,

01:26:40 ◼   ► it's basically for the survival of the company,

01:26:42 ◼   ► it's to say there is money available out there

01:26:44 ◼   ► that we're not taking and we need to take it

01:26:46 ◼   ► 'cause we're not doing that hot

01:26:47 ◼   ► because nobody's buying Wii U's

01:26:49 ◼   ► and not many people are buying 3DS's.

01:26:51 ◼   ► That's kind of sad.

01:26:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I don't, I mean, we'll see.

01:26:55 ◼   ► Again, I'm wrong a lot, but I don't think

01:26:58 ◼   ► this is gonna solve that problem.

01:27:00 ◼   ► - Well, they still have, I mean,

01:27:01 ◼   ► their root problem is still the same.

01:27:02 ◼   ► You need to, you know, again, as I've said

01:27:05 ◼   ► many times in the past, if there exists

01:27:07 ◼   ► a market for devices that mostly pay games,

01:27:09 ◼   ► it is possible for Apple, or Apple,

01:27:11 ◼   ► for Nintendo to do well in that market.

01:27:15 ◼   ► It's not guaranteed, but it is possible,

01:27:17 ◼   ► because they have all the skills necessary

01:27:18 ◼   ► to do well in that market, minus a few

01:27:21 ◼   ► that they can kind of learn

01:27:22 ◼   ► if they get their act together, right?

01:27:24 ◼   ► But if we ever get to the point

01:27:26 ◼   ► where there is no way to do that,

01:27:27 ◼   ► where you cannot be a company that sells things

01:27:31 ◼   ► that mostly play games, they're screwed,

01:27:33 ◼   ► because they can't field a phone platformer.

01:27:35 ◼   ► They'd have to go Sega and say,

01:27:37 ◼   ► "All we do now is make software

01:27:38 ◼   ► "for other people's platforms,

01:27:39 ◼   ► iOS Android whatever else are out there, and they worked out great for Sega

01:27:43 ◼   ► Exactly right and so it's you know, but it's right now

01:27:47 ◼   ► There's definitely a market for home consoles the Xbox one playstation 4 doing well

01:27:51 ◼   ► Nintendo is not doing well because they made a bad product that people don't want so oh well

01:27:55 ◼   ► Do they have a second chance next is there going to be a next generation of consoles will there be a PlayStation 5 and next box?

01:28:01 ◼   ► Don't know what the hell they're gonna name the next one. That's their problem

01:28:05 ◼   ► Whatever if there is a next generation of products box 10. Yeah, why not? Why not just skip the time like Windows?

01:28:10 ◼   ► Nintendo may have a second shot at this right and that's the with the annex thing

01:28:16 ◼   ► Are they gonna make the same stupid mistakes with their with their next shot? Hopefully not hopefully they will learn from their past mistakes

01:28:22 ◼   ► That's that's their root problem

01:28:25 ◼   ► It's like this is kind of keeping the boat afloat and maybe getting some money

01:28:29 ◼   ► And maybe you know trying I mean you can imagine like if they do this

01:28:33 ◼   ► Like there can be interactions where there's an iOS game that interacts with the game that is available on the Wii U for like companion

01:28:38 ◼   ► Apps type of things they do that for like Mac apps where there's a companion

01:28:40 ◼   ► iOS app or websites for there's a companion iOS app like that's a potential market as well

01:28:46 ◼   ► But this is all just kind of like let's keep the lights on and fund our next thing

01:28:50 ◼   ► but the real the real proof of whether Nintendo is gonna

01:28:53 ◼   ► Go the route of Sega or be resurgent is is there an X generation of consoles and if there is

01:29:00 ◼   ► Does Nintendo do a good job and the rumors are the Nintendo is is because the Wii U is doing so terribly is gonna be like

01:29:07 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, we you will make the games

01:29:09 ◼   ► We said we were gonna make for it

01:29:10 ◼   ► But we're kind of in a hurry to sort of shuffle the Wii U off the stage and show you our next thing like that

01:29:14 ◼   ► They will be the first ones out of the gate that the ps4 and Xbox one

01:29:17 ◼   ► Will go link go on many many years after Nintendo has already revved to do the next generation console

01:29:23 ◼   ► But we'll see they still have to make a good console

01:29:25 ◼   ► They still have to make good games that people want to play they have to make the right choices