ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► Stop downloading stuff during the podcast.

00:00:02 ◼   ► You're going to mess up your band.

00:00:03 ◼   ► No, not only am I downloading, not only am I downloading Songs of Innocence, but I'm

00:00:07 ◼   ► also downloading the 1080 keynote as well.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Maybe don't do that.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Like 6.8 gigs.

00:00:17 ◼   ► I already hear your MacBook Pro fan.

00:00:18 ◼   ► Do you not hear that?

00:00:21 ◼   ► I can hear it.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Mine was downloading at 5 megs a second, but my Mac Pro didn't get any louder.

00:00:26 ◼   ► - I'll kiss my butt.

00:00:27 ◼   ► - Oh, chin with the pickle.

00:00:29 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:00:30 ◼   ► - This is gonna be a really depressing episode

00:00:32 ◼   ► because not only do we have to talk about

00:00:35 ◼   ► some of the news from today,

00:00:36 ◼   ► but we have to talk about a silly monitor.

00:00:40 ◼   ► - Is it silly?

00:00:41 ◼   ► - It's silly.

00:00:42 ◼   ► - Is that silly?

00:00:43 ◼   ► It is that monitor long promised.

00:00:45 ◼   ► - This is, so every time we've talked about desktop retina,

00:00:50 ◼   ► and every time I've written about desktop retina on my site,

00:00:52 ◼   ► the topic always comes up of,

00:00:55 ◼   ► sometime in the distant future,

00:00:57 ◼   ► what we actually want is two times

00:01:00 ◼   ► the current 27-inch resolution,

00:01:03 ◼   ► which would be 5120 by 2880.

00:01:05 ◼   ► - Do you remember what I called it?

00:01:06 ◼   ► I don't like the two times thing.

00:01:08 ◼   ► - Well, it's technically four times, but--

00:01:10 ◼   ► - Yes, it's the quad 27-inch.

00:01:12 ◼   ► That's back when we were talking about,

00:01:13 ◼   ► when are we gonna get a Mac Trove,

00:01:14 ◼   ► are we gonna get it?

00:01:15 ◼   ► I said, I really wanna wait for the quad 27-inch monitor.

00:01:18 ◼   ► I'm still waiting 'cause this is from Dell.

00:01:20 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, so anyway.

00:01:22 ◼   ► So we were saying that this,

00:01:23 ◼   ► like I was under the assumption,

00:01:24 ◼   ► because there are multiple problems with this.

00:01:26 ◼   ► Number one is that's just so many pixels,

00:01:29 ◼   ► it's such a density that like,

00:01:32 ◼   ► Dell was just able to ship 4K ones

00:01:34 ◼   ► at a reasonable price at 24 inches,

00:01:37 ◼   ► which is roughly the same density at 24 inches.

00:01:40 ◼   ► They were just able to ship those like last year,

00:01:42 ◼   ► or the beginning of this year.

00:01:43 ◼   ► So that was very, very new.

00:01:46 ◼   ► And that's 4K resolution.

00:01:48 ◼   ► Now this is like, I think it's like 70% more pixels.

00:01:51 ◼   ► It's a massive jump.

00:01:52 ◼   ► It's the same, exactly the same for the same reason,

00:01:54 ◼   ► the same type of jump as it was to go

00:01:56 ◼   ► from 24 inch monitors to 30 inch monitors.

00:01:58 ◼   ► It's like, it's a big, big jump in just number of pixels.

00:02:02 ◼   ► The second problem is that pushing that many pixels

00:02:07 ◼   ► uses more bandwidth at 60 hertz

00:02:09 ◼   ► than Thunderbolt 2 can supply.

00:02:11 ◼   ► And so the only way to do it is to split it using MST,

00:02:15 ◼   ► which is its own kind of mess of half support and bugginess,

00:02:20 ◼   ► to split it between two different Thunderbolt buses

00:02:22 ◼   ► and monopolize most of the bandwidth of both of them,

00:02:25 ◼   ► 'cause you need 28 gigabits, I think.

00:02:29 ◼   ► Yeah, the max is 20, right?

00:02:31 ◼   ► So you need 28.

00:02:32 ◼   ► So you basically split it into two halves,

00:02:34 ◼   ► left half, right half, make the computer,

00:02:36 ◼   ► make the video card think it's two monitors,

00:02:37 ◼   ► and then in the OS, fix it to see it as one monitor,

00:02:41 ◼   ► basically, that's the gist.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Anyway, so you need a heck of a lot of bandwidth

00:02:48 ◼   ► do this and special hardware support, special software support. So we were all assuming

00:02:53 ◼   ► this would not come out for a very long time. My estimate was two to three more years. Turns

00:02:58 ◼   ► out Dell has announced they're shipping one this winter, possibly December-ish and it's

00:03:04 ◼   ► only quote "only $2,500" and actually for what that is and for the jump that represents

00:03:11 ◼   ► that I believe is a fair price. There are some caveats to this. One of the biggest is

00:03:17 ◼   ► We don't know yet whether it runs at 60 hertz.

00:03:20 ◼   ► That's a problem.

00:03:22 ◼   ► There have been some 4K monitors that will run at 30 hertz,

00:03:25 ◼   ► and it's bad.

00:03:27 ◼   ► It's like people who use it say it's really rough.

00:03:29 ◼   ► You do notice the difference.

00:03:30 ◼   ► It doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right,

00:03:32 ◼   ► causes eye strain sometimes or whatever.

00:03:34 ◼   ► Not good.

00:03:35 ◼   ► So you really need it to be 60 hertz.

00:03:37 ◼   ► Anyway, so we don't know that, and we don't know,

00:03:40 ◼   ► currently for Mac people, nothing in the entire Mac lineup

00:03:45 ◼   ► has two Thunderbolt buses except the new Mac Pro.

00:03:49 ◼   ► So even if this comes out, assuming it uses

00:03:52 ◼   ► two different cables to plug into two different

00:03:54 ◼   ► Thunderbolt buses to achieve that high bandwidth,

00:03:56 ◼   ► the only computer that it even might be compatible with

00:03:59 ◼   ► is the current Mac Pro.

00:04:01 ◼   ► And we don't even know if the Mac Pro will have

00:04:03 ◼   ► the hardware and software tweaks needed to treat it right.

00:04:05 ◼   ► So it's a pretty, there's a huge list of ifs here.

00:04:09 ◼   ► And then on top of all of that,

00:04:11 ◼   ► we don't know if this monitor's gonna suck.

00:04:13 ◼   ► We don't like, it could, as John, you know,

00:04:15 ◼   ► it could be like Dell's monitors have spotty quality.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Some of them are good, some of them are crappy.

00:04:21 ◼   ► The previous ones that used MST, the 24 inch one,

00:04:24 ◼   ► the 24 inch 4K one, there were some bugs

00:04:27 ◼   ► with the MST implementation.

00:04:28 ◼   ► Supposedly they've been fixed,

00:04:30 ◼   ► but there were some pretty big bugs when it launched.

00:04:32 ◼   ► So it's kind of iffy as to whether this is going to work.

00:04:36 ◼   ► To me, what I think gives me promise here

00:04:40 ◼   ► is that if Dell can ship one of these,

00:04:42 ◼   ► this winter for $2,500.

00:04:45 ◼   ► That means Apple could too if they wanted to.

00:04:47 ◼   ► Maybe not for that price,

00:04:49 ◼   ► maybe they'd put it in an iMac first,

00:04:50 ◼   ► I think they probably would honestly.

00:04:52 ◼   ► I think what we're very likely to see this fall

00:04:55 ◼   ► is a retina iMac with this resolution

00:04:58 ◼   ► that is positioned above the current generation of iMacs.

00:05:01 ◼   ► So it wouldn't replace them.

00:05:03 ◼   ► It would be a new higher end model

00:05:04 ◼   ► 'cause it would have to be much more expensive,

00:05:05 ◼   ► possibly starting at 3,000 would be my guess.

00:05:09 ◼   ► So maybe we'll see that,

00:05:10 ◼   ► maybe they'll just do 4K and do scaling

00:05:12 ◼   ► the way they've been doing on the other devices,

00:05:13 ◼   ► I don't know, but this would be amazing.

00:05:17 ◼   ► If Apple released this or if Dell's is actually really good

00:05:22 ◼   ► in a way that works on any other Mac,

00:05:25 ◼   ► or any Mac, this would be truly amazing.

00:05:28 ◼   ► And this is the true desktop retina big monitor.

00:05:32 ◼   ► I think the only other true retina monitor out there

00:05:36 ◼   ► right now is the Dell 24 inch 4K,

00:05:40 ◼   ► because that's the one that gives you,

00:05:42 ◼   ► it gives you exact 2X resolution of a standard size

00:05:47 ◼   ► at a standard density.

00:05:48 ◼   ► Like all the other 4K monitors,

00:05:50 ◼   ► the 4K resolution is twice 1080p.

00:05:54 ◼   ► And so a monitor that is roughly 1080p,

00:05:57 ◼   ► which 24-inch monitor classes usually are,

00:06:01 ◼   ► 24-inch monitor, like old 24-inch LCDs,

00:06:04 ◼   ► that is like the right size for 4K to be retina.

00:06:09 ◼   ► anything bigger than that and either everything

00:06:11 ◼   ► on the screen is too large or you have to like

00:06:14 ◼   ► not render it exactly at 2x.

00:06:17 ◼   ► This monitor or any monitor with identical specs

00:06:19 ◼   ► as this monitor is the only way to get true retina

00:06:22 ◼   ► at 27 inches or 30 inches.

00:06:24 ◼   ► So that's why this is a big deal

00:06:26 ◼   ► and we weren't expecting this for quite some time.

00:06:28 ◼   ► - I don't think they're gonna put anything like this

00:06:30 ◼   ► in an iMac this year 'cause I think it's still too far.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Like I don't think they want that,

00:06:34 ◼   ► I don't think that it makes sense for the iMac

00:06:36 ◼   ► to stretch that far upmarket.

00:06:38 ◼   ► Eventually, sure, you know, when it becomes cheaper,

00:06:41 ◼   ► but I mean, I think when they do retina on the iMac,

00:06:45 ◼   ► it will not be at this resolution.

00:06:46 ◼   ► It'll be something smaller,

00:06:47 ◼   ► 'cause it just doesn't make sense to me

00:06:49 ◼   ► with the way Apple's been treating the iMac line lately.

00:06:52 ◼   ► - Do you think, Marco,

00:06:53 ◼   ► if there is this hypothetical iMac

00:06:57 ◼   ► that has this hypothetical retina display,

00:07:00 ◼   ► would you give up your beloved trash can for this?

00:07:03 ◼   ► - I would give it a couple of months

00:07:04 ◼   ► to see if they released

00:07:06 ◼   ► standalone Thunderbolt display version of it.

00:07:08 ◼   ► - Or you know, a year or two years or however long it takes.

00:07:11 ◼   ► What was the gap between the 27 inch,

00:07:13 ◼   ► maybe it wasn't that long, but in various--

00:07:15 ◼   ► - I think it was about a year.

00:07:16 ◼   ► - In various times in the past,

00:07:17 ◼   ► it has seemed like an awful long time

00:07:19 ◼   ► between the release of an Apple device with the display

00:07:22 ◼   ► and the standalone display.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And we're always like, it's like the iPod Classic

00:07:26 ◼   ► that we'll talk about.

00:07:27 ◼   ► Do they care about individual displays anymore?

00:07:28 ◼   ► Are they gonna do that?

00:07:29 ◼   ► I mean, they released the new Mac Pro

00:07:31 ◼   ► and they really didn't care about monitors.

00:07:33 ◼   ► They're like, "Here, buy this thing from Sharp."

00:07:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly, and maybe the reason why is because

00:07:39 ◼   ► their monitor wasn't ready yet.

00:07:42 ◼   ► Maybe they are planning a big update

00:07:43 ◼   ► to the Thunderbolt displays, but it just wasn't ready yet,

00:07:45 ◼   ► and it wouldn't be ready for six months,

00:07:46 ◼   ► they're like, all right, well, here, take this.

00:07:48 ◼   ► So I think this fall, obviously they're busy

00:07:52 ◼   ► with things that we'll get to, but I think

00:07:55 ◼   ► the Mac lineup has not seen a lot of updates,

00:07:59 ◼   ► because everyone's waiting on Broadwell.

00:08:02 ◼   ► I think it would be nice to do something like this,

00:08:05 ◼   ► you know, not to say that that's a reason they would do it,

00:08:08 ◼   ► but I don't know.

00:08:10 ◼   ► I think this fall is gonna be awfully quiet

00:08:11 ◼   ► for the Mac lineup unless they do something like 4K iMacs,

00:08:15 ◼   ► which they would call Retina, but yeah.

00:08:17 ◼   ► - Well, it'll be nice if they actually update the Mac Pros

00:08:20 ◼   ► with the new CPUs, right?

00:08:22 ◼   ► So that'll kind of be like for us to test

00:08:24 ◼   ► how much do they really care about the macro?

00:08:26 ◼   ► 'Cause there's no reason they have to upgrade

00:08:27 ◼   ► with the new CPUs when they're available, but they could.

00:08:31 ◼   ► So this will be a good way to gauge their interest

00:08:33 ◼   ► in this product line.

00:08:34 ◼   ► Like do they bother updating them?

00:08:36 ◼   ► Do they just say, you know what, we're gonna skip this.

00:08:38 ◼   ► The current Mac Pros are fine.

00:08:40 ◼   ► People are buying them, we'll wait till next year.

00:08:42 ◼   ► - Do you wanna talk about a funny tweet that you saw, Jon?

00:08:44 ◼   ► - I did, yeah.

00:08:45 ◼   ► We talked a lot about sexism and the games industry

00:08:50 ◼   ► and stuff in the after show last show.

00:08:52 ◼   ► And I saw a couple of interesting things go by

00:08:56 ◼   ► in the week since.

00:08:57 ◼   ► This one was a tweet that struck me as funny.

00:08:59 ◼   ► It is from someone whose name I'm not going to attempt to pronounce, but his Twitter handle is Y-E-Z-Z-E-R, Yezer, I guess.

00:09:06 ◼   ► And he has tweeted a picture. People love to do this. They take a screenshot and tweet a picture of it, which doesn't really make that much sense to me.

00:09:14 ◼   ► Because, as if a screenshot is proof of anything, and I'm always amazed at people who look at screenshots, like, they'll ask for screenshots as proof.

00:09:22 ◼   ► You would think like kids today would be savvy and know that screenshots prove nothing

00:09:27 ◼   ► Like you're just like you can can right-click on any web page and make any screenshot you want kids

00:09:33 ◼   ► Anyway, that's not the point of this is not a proof thing

00:09:35 ◼   ► I he tweeted a picture of someone's tweet who has an egg icon and blacked out the identifying information

00:09:41 ◼   ► Because he's not trying to like make fun of this person or get this person harassed or whatever

00:09:44 ◼   ► and the text of this tweet says

00:09:48 ◼   ► My biggest problem with Anita, meaning Anita Sarkeesian of the Feminist Frequency videos,

00:09:52 ◼   ► is that if I used her logic, I could see sexism everywhere. And the commentary added by this tweeter is

00:09:58 ◼   ► teetering on the brink of an epiphany.

00:10:01 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:10:03 ◼   ► I thought this was funny, because it's getting back to like seeing the matrix type thing.

00:10:06 ◼   ► That reaction is natural for a lot of people being exposed to this stuff, and they're like,

00:10:12 ◼   ► "Geez, it's just like they see this stuff everywhere."

00:10:15 ◼   ► like, you know, like a conspiracy theorist, like, sees, you know, that the government is trying to

00:10:18 ◼   ► hunt them down everywhere or whatever, and so this person is, you know, offering that opposite

00:10:22 ◼   ► saying, kind of, absurd notion of — if I saw things the way this person did, I would see sexism

00:10:28 ◼   ► everywhere, and obviously that would be crazy. Like, they're not quite there yet. Anyway,

00:10:33 ◼   ► I thought it was funny. And the other thing related to this topic is a couple people suggested

00:10:37 ◼   ► the Twitter account "Everyday Sexism" to follow if you just sort of want, like, sort of ambient

00:10:42 ◼   ► Exposure to this viewpoint without feeling like you have to engage without without feeling like you're being yelled at or whatever

00:10:48 ◼   ► I don't follow the accounts. I don't know what the tone it's like. I just looked at some of the tweets

00:10:51 ◼   ► It's like aggregating

00:10:54 ◼   ► People things that happen to people during the day are things they think are sexist

00:10:59 ◼   ► They will you know

00:11:00 ◼   ► Funnel into this account and you can just add it to your Twitter stream and and just let it go by don't feel like you

00:11:04 ◼   ► Have to argue with it. Don't feel like you have to agree with all of it

00:11:07 ◼   ► Just that's another way to sort of expose yourself. I

00:11:11 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:11:12 ◼   ► I don't follow the account, so I can't vouch for it, but other people do when they

00:11:14 ◼   ► find it's helpful.

00:11:15 ◼   ► So I thought I'd throw that out there.

00:11:17 ◼   ► And can I just kind of jump on the feedback regarding the last episode just to thank pretty

00:11:24 ◼   ► much all of our listeners, all the feedback that I've heard almost exclusively.

00:11:28 ◼   ► There's, of course, a couple of bad apples here and there, but almost exclusively all

00:11:32 ◼   ► the feedback has been really positive.

00:11:34 ◼   ► And I've seen a lot of people talking about following the Host of Isometric Show and starting

00:11:39 ◼   ► to listen isometric.

00:11:41 ◼   ► And given the subject matter,

00:11:44 ◼   ► that could have taken a turn for the worst

00:11:47 ◼   ► in terms of listener response.

00:11:48 ◼   ► And I am extremely glad and proud

00:11:51 ◼   ► that so many people seemed pleased with how it was handled

00:11:54 ◼   ► and also seemed to be, enlightened seems a bit dramatic,

00:11:59 ◼   ► but I can't think of a better word,

00:12:00 ◼   ► so enlightened by the conversation.

00:12:02 ◼   ► And so many thanks to all our listeners

00:12:04 ◼   ► for sticking that one out.

00:12:07 ◼   ► - It was much, much less noisy

00:12:11 ◼   ► and contentious follow-up feedback

00:12:15 ◼   ► than when we discussed like Android phones.

00:12:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:12:19 ◼   ► If you wanna take sort of take the temperature

00:12:20 ◼   ► of our audience, topics that we can discuss

00:12:22 ◼   ► without much angry email, sexism.

00:12:26 ◼   ► Topics that we can't discuss

00:12:27 ◼   ► without a lot of angry email, Android.

00:12:30 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Not saying that's good or bad,

00:12:32 ◼   ► that's just, that's the audience we have.

00:12:34 ◼   ► And you know, I was pleasantly surprised as well.

00:12:35 ◼   ► I thought our listeners, you never know when you touch on a topic, even though it technically

00:12:40 ◼   ► is tech related and it's all part of this community or whatever, you never know if you're

00:12:44 ◼   ► just going to suddenly draw a gigantic red line down the middle of your audience and

00:12:47 ◼   ► half of them are going to send you angry emails.

00:12:49 ◼   ► That did not happen.

00:12:50 ◼   ► It could just be because they don't care.

00:12:52 ◼   ► It doesn't mean everyone agrees with us.

00:12:54 ◼   ► Just be like, "Yeah, whatever.

00:12:55 ◼   ► We're waiting for you to talk about tech stuff."

00:12:56 ◼   ► All right.

00:12:57 ◼   ► How about the Megativo?

00:12:59 ◼   ► That looks like a Synology, but isn't?

00:13:02 ◼   ► Everybody was sending this like, "Oh, look, the sub-tivo finally made a thing for Jon.

00:13:05 ◼   ► - Yes, and I think the people who said that

00:13:07 ◼   ► don't understand my TiVo needs.

00:13:09 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:13:10 ◼   ► Have not captured the nuances of it.

00:13:12 ◼   ► So this is a product called the TiVo Mega,

00:13:15 ◼   ► and it's a rack mount.

00:13:16 ◼   ► What does it look like, Marco, for you?

00:13:18 ◼   ► - I think it's a minimum, right?

00:13:20 ◼   ► If you put three and a half inch drives on their side,

00:13:21 ◼   ► I think the smallest you can make it is for you, right?

00:13:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's around $5,000.

00:13:26 ◼   ► TiVo hasn't priced it.

00:13:27 ◼   ► It's got 24 terabytes of storage,

00:13:29 ◼   ► and like we said, it's rack mount.

00:13:31 ◼   ► So obviously this is not something

00:13:33 ◼   ► that you stick under your TV.

00:13:35 ◼   ► And hey, look, it's got all the storage.

00:13:36 ◼   ► Isn't that great?

00:13:37 ◼   ► It's like, you always say you buy the most expensive TiVo.

00:13:40 ◼   ► The problem with this device,

00:13:41 ◼   ► not that I would ever entertain buying it,

00:13:42 ◼   ► but the reason it doesn't fulfill any sort of even like

00:13:45 ◼   ► silly fantasy of a TiVo that I might have,

00:13:48 ◼   ► is that the part, the sort of working part of this,

00:13:51 ◼   ► not the storage, the storage is obviously

00:13:53 ◼   ► all these hard drives and there's a lot of them, right?

00:13:55 ◼   ► But the working part of it is exactly the same

00:13:56 ◼   ► as the TiVo I have now.

00:13:57 ◼   ► It doesn't have more tuners.

00:13:58 ◼   ► I assume the interface is just as slow or fast,

00:14:01 ◼   ► depending on how you want to get it.

00:14:02 ◼   ► Like it doesn't have any better features than the TiVo.

00:14:05 ◼   ► All it has is like my TiVo with tons more storage

00:14:08 ◼   ► and you know, cooling and everything and power supply

00:14:10 ◼   ► to power that storage and so on and so forth.

00:14:12 ◼   ► I'm not running out of room on my TiVo.

00:14:14 ◼   ► My problem is not storage.

00:14:15 ◼   ► I always want it to be like having all HD interface,

00:14:17 ◼   ► be faster, be more responsive, you know,

00:14:19 ◼   ► have the built-in apps be nicer.

00:14:20 ◼   ► That's what I want.

00:14:21 ◼   ► And this doesn't fulfill any of those things.

00:14:23 ◼   ► So it's not really my fantasy TiVo.

00:14:25 ◼   ► As for who this TiVo is for,

00:14:26 ◼   ► initially when I saw the announcement, I'm like,

00:14:28 ◼   ► oh, they're going after, you know,

00:14:30 ◼   ► shows like the Daily Show who like record tons of channels of television that have people reviewing them

00:14:34 ◼   ► So that's where they can you know

00:14:37 ◼   ► Get all that footage from and play it back sort of

00:14:39 ◼   ► Institutional DVR. It's not for an individual

00:14:43 ◼   ► But it's for like a company to try to capture all these channels and have a bunch of employees reviewing them or whatever

00:14:47 ◼   ► But that's not what this is for. There's another company that does that by the way. What's their name?

00:14:51 ◼   ► How to link this

00:14:54 ◼   ► Snap stream snap stream makes giant rack mount DVR type things for just that purpose

00:14:58 ◼   ► This TiVo is apparently for rich people

00:15:00 ◼   ► So it's not it's not for

00:15:03 ◼   ► Institutions to use because apparently doesn't have according to the Ars Technica article put in the show notes

00:15:07 ◼   ► It doesn't have like the the exporting

00:15:10 ◼   ► Facilities that the professional devices use to sort of get into the video workflow of broadcast television or whatever

00:15:15 ◼   ► It's more like if you are very wealthy and have a crazy entertainment center and have like a separate room or closet where all your television

00:15:21 ◼   ► Stuff is this is where you would put that rack, right?

00:15:25 ◼   ► So and you just want to record everything and it only has six tuners. There's not so much you can record

00:15:30 ◼   ► Maybe you just want to record it and hoard it. I don't know

00:15:32 ◼   ► I really don't think this is gonna be a big winner product for them because it's not sort of something they're going to sell television

00:15:38 ◼   ► studios and television shows and

00:15:40 ◼   ► I don't even not sure how many rich people really want to have a giant rack Mount Tevo

00:15:46 ◼   ► But there you go rack Mount Tevo. I disagree

00:15:48 ◼   ► I think a written your stereotypical rich person just wants the best darn Tevo that money can buy and when you say well

00:15:55 ◼   ► you could record three years of television. I want that.

00:15:58 ◼   ► But you can't. Think of the numbers they give. That's SD. Who records SD? They always inflate

00:16:03 ◼   ► the number.

00:16:04 ◼   ► This is also like, as somebody in the chat said, this is like for the custom installation

00:16:08 ◼   ► market. This is for people who have so much money and are building such an expensive home

00:16:12 ◼   ► theater setup that they're paying somebody else to design the whole thing for them and

00:16:17 ◼   ► install it in their home and build the little server rack closet and everything.

00:16:20 ◼   ► Yeah, oh, yeah, these people aren't installing it themselves. But even for that like it's not

00:16:24 ◼   ► Even with those people they say these are the features that I want, right?

00:16:27 ◼   ► I want this that and the other thing and I don't know if I don't even know if TiVo fits on a list like

00:16:31 ◼   ► What are those names of those crazy things that rip they rip blu-ray? I know what you're talking about

00:16:36 ◼   ► I forget what I don't think it's legal

00:16:38 ◼   ► No, it is that you have to keep the discs in the device. So they have giant jukeboxes

00:16:43 ◼   ► Yes, so they rip they rip all your blu-rays

00:16:45 ◼   ► But since it's illegal to play them back without the blu-ray in the drive is a giant like jukebox type thing says well now

00:16:51 ◼   ► It's legal because all the things are in the drive

00:16:54 ◼   ► Anyway, that is like I think it's called kaleidoscope because the chat room is attempting to spell kaleidoscope and spelling it in a bunch

00:17:01 ◼   ► Yeah, kaleidoscape

00:17:03 ◼   ► So those type of things you sell that as if you're an installer if you're a media center installer you say hey

00:17:09 ◼   ► Blu-ray is the best quality movies you can get now for you know that you can buy for yourself

00:17:13 ◼   ► Which is true unless I guess you're buying your own like film printer 70 millimeter film prints or something anyway

00:17:18 ◼   ► Blu-ray is the best digital copy you can get

00:17:20 ◼   ► You'd like to be able to have access to a giant collection of blu-rays on demand whenever you want

00:17:26 ◼   ► This device gives you that this TiVo thing. It's like well you could get just the plane

00:17:32 ◼   ► You know the regular person TiVo that I have now

00:17:35 ◼   ► But you'll run out of room if you don't if you don't watch anything that you record for like three weeks

00:17:40 ◼   ► And you record tons of stuff so really you should get this $5,000 thing that won't run out of room

00:17:45 ◼   ► That will last like you I mean you if you record this much stuff and never watch it like you're never gonna catch up

00:17:51 ◼   ► It's not it's too much storage like you know you don't have you only have six tuners

00:17:55 ◼   ► You can't you can't say like my old dream was record every single channel on television

00:17:59 ◼   ► You know for a week and that way whenever I want to watch something

00:18:03 ◼   ► I don't have to choose what to record you recorded everything all I have to choose is what I want to watch based on a

00:18:07 ◼   ► moving week window or two week window or whatever but this can't do that because

00:18:11 ◼   ► it's only got six tuners so I don't understand this product. This is such a

00:18:14 ◼   ► like super charging a horse problem this is ridiculous anyway which do you think

00:18:20 ◼   ► will sell more this or the Amazon Fire phone? If you're a rich person and you

00:18:26 ◼   ► say I want a DVR and money is no object and now I'm an installer and I think

00:18:32 ◼   ► well money's no object I better give them the best darn DVR they can that I

00:18:35 ◼   ► I can buy, they're going to get this ridiculous TiVo that really, to your point, serves no

00:18:39 ◼   ► particular purpose other than to make rich people feel like they have the best TiVo in

00:18:43 ◼   ► the world.

00:18:44 ◼   ► Right, and this, you know, like the kind of installation we're talking about that has,

00:18:48 ◼   ► you know, a custom home theater stuff and stuff like this going into it, that might

00:18:51 ◼   ► be like a 75-grant installation.

00:18:54 ◼   ► So like, you know, the $5,000 for one component is not that outrageous.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Oh no, it's funds $5,000 for an HDMI switch and those things.

00:19:01 ◼   ► Right.

00:19:02 ◼   ► I'm not saying the price is the limiting factor.

00:19:03 ◼   ► I'm just thinking like feature wise, I don't know if this is bringing anything to the table

00:19:07 ◼   ► that a regular TiVo wouldn't and the installer can can charge $5,000 for a regular TiVo like

00:19:12 ◼   ► the price of the thing has no bearing on what the person gets charged for the installation.

00:19:16 ◼   ► Our first sponsor this week is our friends at hover. Now, last time, I mentioned that

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00:19:51 ◼   ► the main difference seems to be that if you are British or Australian or some other country

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00:23:10 ◼   ► If you if we got through that ad read, and you're still wondering if you're American,

00:23:13 ◼   ► and you're still wondering what the heck people were talking about with the alternate pronunciation,

00:23:17 ◼   ► I the best word I can think of, it's a sound alike that I think most Americans will pronounce

00:23:22 ◼   ► in the sound-alike way, is a small crappy house, a hovel. Just take that first syllable and put

00:23:28 ◼   ► "er" at the end. Hover. Sorry, I can't do it. But anyway, that's amazing.

00:23:35 ◼   ► You can't do it because it's not right.

00:23:36 ◼   ► The thing that kills me about this whole pronunciation debate is that all the people

00:23:41 ◼   ► who wrote us were so incensed in a way that they wouldn't be if we said—like, just think of any

00:23:49 ◼   ► other word you can say in a British accent. American and British English sound different.

00:23:53 ◼   ► We all know they sound different. There are words they say different than us. And this

00:23:56 ◼   ► one was something like, "Oh, you just don't have an accent. You're not saying like..."

00:23:59 ◼   ► I don't know. What do you think of a word that sounds different in British English than

00:24:04 ◼   ► regular? We all accept all these other words. But this one was like, "You're not just speaking

00:24:08 ◼   ► with an American accent. You are saying the word wrong, and you're saying it wrong in

00:24:11 ◼   ► a crazy way." Which makes me think that British people haven't seen enough American movies

00:24:15 ◼   ► that involved the word hover in the script, because it's not weird at all.

00:24:19 ◼   ► And it was so easy to tell.

00:24:20 ◼   ► As soon as we said, "What are we saying?

00:24:22 ◼   ► We're at everybody else."

00:24:23 ◼   ► And everyone who wrote it was, "Oh, by the way, I'm in insert British colony here that's

00:24:26 ◼   ► not America."

00:24:27 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:24:28 ◼   ► So, all you people need to get together and add this to your list with, like, "lift"

00:24:32 ◼   ► and "Lory" and "torch" and all those other things.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Like, just add the list of things and everyone will tell each other, "This is one more

00:24:39 ◼   ► way that American and British English is different."

00:24:41 ◼   ► And there's not a bunch of American people mispronouncing a word.

00:24:44 ◼   ► We just speak differently.

00:24:45 ◼   ► All right, so we have to go from this to a bunch of genuinely sad news.

00:24:52 ◼   ► I'm not trying to be funny anymore.

00:24:54 ◼   ► There was some really, really, really unfortunate news today about Macworld.

00:25:02 ◼   ► I speak for all three of us in saying that we have a whole bunch of friends that work,

00:25:09 ◼   ► I guess, worked at Macworld, and many of them got laid off today.

00:25:16 ◼   ► And that's a really awful thing, and I've been so lucky not to have ever been through

00:25:20 ◼   ► that.

00:25:21 ◼   ► Although, Jon, I think you had said you had, and so maybe you can talk about that in a

00:25:24 ◼   ► second.

00:25:25 ◼   ► But these are really, really, really, really awesome people.

00:25:28 ◼   ► And a couple of them have already been moving in the direction of new things anyway, and

00:25:32 ◼   ► so I'm very thankful for that.

00:25:35 ◼   ► But it's a really, really terrible thing.

00:25:37 ◼   ► And even as someone who never really read all that much Macworld, I'm still disappointed

00:25:44 ◼   ► by it because I know what it meant to the community.

00:25:46 ◼   ► And it stinks.

00:25:48 ◼   ► And I feel real bad for all of our friends.

00:25:50 ◼   ► So best wishes to all of them.

00:25:52 ◼   ► Yeah, this is probably more significant for old people like me because I grew up reading

00:25:57 ◼   ► these paper—before the internet—these paper magazines about the Macintosh, MacUser,

00:26:01 ◼   ► in MacWorld Magazine from the beginning, and a lot of the names and faces that are associated

00:26:09 ◼   ► with MacWorld either have been there for a long time or came from MacUser, which I also

00:26:13 ◼   ► read.

00:26:14 ◼   ► MacUser was my old favorite back in the day, mostly because it was probably friendlier

00:26:17 ◼   ► to 11- and 12-year-old me or whatever age I was when I was reading that.

00:26:22 ◼   ► But Jason Snell came from there, and then he was in charge of MacWorld and then in charge

00:26:26 ◼   ► of even more things at the parent company of MacWorld.

00:26:29 ◼   ► Yeah, pretty much everybody almost everybody that I knew and almost the entire staff of macro magazine got laid off which sucks

00:26:37 ◼   ► I have been through many jobs and many similar situations my usual sort of

00:26:44 ◼   ► Way I handle this is when I feel like the company is going down the drain

00:26:48 ◼   ► I start looking for something else and I get out before I actually get laid off

00:26:53 ◼   ► But that is not you would think oh, that's a better way to do it

00:26:55 ◼   ► It's not really like doing it's exactly the same thing because it's basically you're in a situation where you realize your job is

00:27:01 ◼   ► Going away, and if it's not you don't know when it's gonna be could be tomorrow could be next week could be next year

00:27:07 ◼   ► But you have to do that whole thing where it's like I don't want a new job. I enjoy my job

00:27:11 ◼   ► I like the people I work with but now I need to get a new job and

00:27:14 ◼   ► It's it's a terrible feeling no matter how it happens, and it's it's probably even worse although

00:27:21 ◼   ► This has never happened to me to just come into work one day and say guess what you don't have a job anymore. Sorry

00:27:25 ◼   ► And that's got to really suck for the people who were just totally blindsided.

00:27:30 ◼   ► I wish the company, the parent company that runs Mac Pro, could have figured out how to make a successful business.

00:27:38 ◼   ► From this, it's difficult to make that transition from the old world where they were dominant paper magazines to the new world where paper magazines are not as important.

00:27:47 ◼   ► But they had all the pieces, they had all the talent, they had all the people. It wasn't a bunch of old fogies there.

00:27:52 ◼   ► Like, it was, they had a complete age range of people who knew what they were doing, who

00:27:57 ◼   ► were savvy with all the things.

00:27:58 ◼   ► It's just like, the people steering the ship just couldn't figure out how to make it work.

00:28:03 ◼   ► And someone tweeted earlier today, like layoffs are basically when someone who makes a lot

00:28:07 ◼   ► more money than you is bad at their job and you suffer for it, right?

00:28:10 ◼   ► Because it's not these people's job to make the company, you know, figure out how the

00:28:15 ◼   ► company is going to make money, like big picture wise.

00:28:16 ◼   ► Like, they don't have control of that.

00:28:18 ◼   ► Their job is to like, do the best writing and reporting they can, do the best reviews

00:28:21 ◼   ► they can or whatever their individual jobs are they could be doing their jobs

00:28:24 ◼   ► amazingly well and I think they were it doesn't matter because they don't get

00:28:28 ◼   ► make the decisions about what the company does and that in the end is what

00:28:32 ◼   ► ended up costing them their jobs that's just the way of the world so I feel

00:28:35 ◼   ► terrible for these people and the thing I think about when they're out there in

00:28:38 ◼   ► the marketplace now if you're thinking of hiring these people some there is you

00:28:44 ◼   ► know we just talked about the you know paper print magazines being sort of a

00:28:48 ◼   ► thing of the past and having to make that transition. There are some aspects of that world

00:28:52 ◼   ► that are, I think, still valuable and now suddenly become unique. So if you run a website like Ars

00:28:59 ◼   ► Technica or, you know, MacRumors or iMore or anything like that, these things came up in the time where

00:29:05 ◼   ► part of the excitement of that is you could type whatever you want, hit a button, it went out and

00:29:10 ◼   ► to millions of people could read it. And it was much less formal and much more sort of personal

00:29:16 ◼   ► and exciting and raw, right?

00:29:20 ◼   ► As opposed to like a print magazine process

00:29:22 ◼   ► where you write it and it goes through editing,

00:29:24 ◼   ► copy editing, and it gets smoothed over and it comes out.

00:29:26 ◼   ► I'm not gonna say it's like more professional

00:29:28 ◼   ► 'cause it makes it sound like the websites

00:29:29 ◼   ► aren't professional, they are.

00:29:30 ◼   ► It's just a different tone, right?

00:29:32 ◼   ► And the people who work or worked for Macworld

00:29:36 ◼   ► are the people who know how to work in that environment.

00:29:39 ◼   ► And like, for example, if there was some writer

00:29:42 ◼   ► working for Macworld and wrote just something crazy

00:29:44 ◼   ► and just start filling it with expletives

00:29:46 ◼   ► and yelling about things and just being terrible,

00:29:50 ◼   ► that wouldn't get out in Macworld.

00:29:53 ◼   ► Macworld, I'm not gonna say it was like a family magazine,

00:29:55 ◼   ► but that wasn't done in the print world.

00:29:57 ◼   ► You didn't just have someone just go off

00:29:59 ◼   ► on a crazy unsubstantiated rant

00:30:01 ◼   ► and then you wouldn't publish that

00:30:02 ◼   ► because paper pages were precious

00:30:03 ◼   ► and you wouldn't do that type of thing.

00:30:06 ◼   ► And the new world is not like that.

00:30:07 ◼   ► And so I'm not saying one is better than the other,

00:30:08 ◼   ► but suddenly the people who are used to writing

00:30:10 ◼   ► in that environment are now different.

00:30:13 ◼   ► Now they are the oddball.

00:30:16 ◼   ► Now they are the interesting, unique thing

00:30:18 ◼   ► because there are tons of websites out there

00:30:19 ◼   ► with sort of a less formal process

00:30:22 ◼   ► and more sort of raw, exposed writing.

00:30:26 ◼   ► These people know how to write a sort of like,

00:30:28 ◼   ► maybe you could say they know how to write

00:30:29 ◼   ► a boring sounding or whatever.

00:30:31 ◼   ► I just think, you know, I'm gonna say it again,

00:30:33 ◼   ► it's not really what I even,

00:30:34 ◼   ► the professional is the word that I'm thinking of,

00:30:35 ◼   ► but it's not really the right word,

00:30:37 ◼   ► but like you read it and you feel like these are adults

00:30:40 ◼   ► writing for adults in a mature manner that is considered and

00:30:45 ◼   ► and well written and well articulated.

00:30:48 ◼   ► And that's something that I think needs to be part of the current sort of stew

00:30:55 ◼   ► of tech journalism.

00:30:57 ◼   ► And it is part of it.

00:30:58 ◼   ► Some some publications skew one way or the other.

00:31:00 ◼   ► Like not everything is like, you know, BuzzFeed.

00:31:02 ◼   ► And at the other end of the spectrum, I don't know what you would put on there.

00:31:05 ◼   ► but the people coming out of Macworld know how to do that.

00:31:10 ◼   ► If you want somebody who knows how to do that,

00:31:12 ◼   ► these are the people, and I think that skill

00:31:14 ◼   ► is much more rare than somebody

00:31:15 ◼   ► who knows how to just bang out.

00:31:17 ◼   ► I tried the iWatch and it was,

00:31:19 ◼   ► I'm still calling it the iWatch,

00:31:20 ◼   ► I tried the Apple Watch and it was really cool

00:31:22 ◼   ► and it was shiny, and there's a place for that.

00:31:25 ◼   ► I'm not saying that's bad.

00:31:26 ◼   ► People like to read that, it's exciting,

00:31:28 ◼   ► but I feel like we have much more of that now

00:31:30 ◼   ► than we have Macworld.

00:31:31 ◼   ► Macworld's sort of not entirely going away.

00:31:33 ◼   ► The print magazine is going away,

00:31:34 ◼   ► the website's gonna be together,

00:31:35 ◼   ► but all those people who are writing all those words,

00:31:39 ◼   ► I hope they find someplace to write in,

00:31:45 ◼   ► to put their skills that they've gained,

00:31:46 ◼   ► those hard-earned skills they've gained to use,

00:31:49 ◼   ► because I think that type of voice

00:31:50 ◼   ► needs to be part of the tech journalism ecosystem.

00:31:54 ◼   ► - And the other interesting thing about Macworld,

00:31:59 ◼   ► to be completely selfish for a second,

00:32:00 ◼   ► was that they actually published something I was a part of,

00:32:02 ◼   ► which was extraordinarily exciting.

00:32:05 ◼   ► And I mean that genuinely.

00:32:06 ◼   ► I mean, I called my mom to say, hey mom, guess what?

00:32:10 ◼   ► I'm a published magazine writer, sort of-ish, kinda.

00:32:15 ◼   ► But nevertheless, it was extremely cool.

00:32:17 ◼   ► And like I said, everyone I've met there

00:32:19 ◼   ► is just so phenomenally awesome.

00:32:20 ◼   ► And I'm really bummed.

00:32:22 ◼   ► I'm bummed for all of them,

00:32:24 ◼   ► but I'm also happy because I'm sure,

00:32:26 ◼   ► I'm absolutely unequivocally confident

00:32:28 ◼   ► that they are all gonna find some new and exciting venture.

00:32:31 ◼   ► Someone in the chatroom suggested formal

00:32:33 ◼   ► instead of professional.

00:32:34 ◼   ► That's a better word because I don't wanna say professional

00:32:36 ◼   ► because it makes it sound like the websites

00:32:37 ◼   ► aren't professional and they totally are.

00:32:39 ◼   ► Like formal or family friendly, I don't know, considered.

00:32:44 ◼   ► I mean, I think it's a hybrid because this Macworld crew,

00:32:48 ◼   ► like it's a shame this came right after

00:32:50 ◼   ► the Apple Watch event and everything.

00:32:52 ◼   ► They would descend on an event and they would file

00:32:54 ◼   ► tons of stories, well-written, correct,

00:32:58 ◼   ► fact-checked, researched, just like in an amazing speed, especially like I was always amazed by how

00:33:04 ◼   ► fast everyone can write well there. Like everyone on their staff could not only bang out story after

00:33:09 ◼   ► story, they were all good stories and they were all well written. Someone like me who really

00:33:12 ◼   ► struggles to get any words out that I am, that I find remotely acceptable, I was always amazed

00:33:17 ◼   ► that they could just be like, "Oh, I gotta write this story out, da-ka-da-da-da-da-da-da-da."

00:33:20 ◼   ► Half an hour later, it's done. I'm like, I don't even know, I'm just like magic. It's like watching

00:33:23 ◼   ► magic happen. Right, because they're professionals. Like, you know, you, you are a professional

00:33:26 ◼   ► but you very rarely write,

00:33:29 ◼   ► like you write this one big thing a year,

00:33:31 ◼   ► whereas they do this every day.

00:33:32 ◼   ► Like this is their job.

00:33:34 ◼   ► Their job is to write in that way,

00:33:37 ◼   ► to that quality, to that standard.

00:33:39 ◼   ► And they do that, they did that full time.

00:33:42 ◼   ► - And other websites, like every website,

00:33:44 ◼   ► like iMore does it, Ars Technica does it,

00:33:46 ◼   ► MacRumors does it, they all do it.

00:33:47 ◼   ► It's just that like, it just seems so much harder

00:33:49 ◼   ► to do it in the way that MacWorld does it.

00:33:51 ◼   ► Or again, at the very least, it is now a rarity.

00:33:54 ◼   ► What was once like the only way you could write about technology you know every magazine was like that is now a rarity and becoming more

00:34:01 ◼   ► Rare so what I'm saying is I just hope that that stays in the mix somewhere

00:34:04 ◼   ► You know I want someplace where I can read stuff like that like beside

00:34:07 ◼   ► Macworld was in my rotation of things that I would read I have tabs open with

00:34:11 ◼   ► Macworld stories right now like for you know things from my os 10 review because they've done the whole bunch of previews

00:34:17 ◼   ► And I want to make sure I don't miss anything they covered or I want to get their point of view and things like this

00:34:20 ◼   ► Like it's just and what am I gonna do when that's not there? You know it's gonna be disappointing

00:34:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, they also, they're leaving behind

00:34:27 ◼   ► this very much like a real world impact

00:34:31 ◼   ► in this technology world.

00:34:31 ◼   ► Like Macworld Magazine is the only magazine

00:34:34 ◼   ► I've ever written for that I didn't own.

00:34:37 ◼   ► It's the only time I've ever written something

00:34:40 ◼   ► that was in print.

00:34:41 ◼   ► It's the only time anybody else has ever paid me

00:34:43 ◼   ► to write something.

00:34:44 ◼   ► I wrote one thing for one issue of Macworld.

00:34:46 ◼   ► And that was a huge honor.

00:34:48 ◼   ► I also have in the corner of my office

00:34:52 ◼   ► a Macworld Eddy trophy for Instapaper

00:34:54 ◼   ► from let me see if I can see it. I believe it says 2010. Yeah. So I have a Mac world

00:34:58 ◼   ► Eddie. It's when you get a Mac world Eddie, it's like their annual editors choice awards.

00:35:03 ◼   ► It is it is this tremendous heavy statue. It's like this giant trophy. It's actually

00:35:08 ◼   ► it's got it. It's got to be 15 inches tall. And it can't come in this big box weighs a

00:35:13 ◼   ► ton. It's great. It's this nice like physical artifact, this big trophy of something you

00:35:18 ◼   ► did in the virtual world that you don't usually get real life impact for, you know, and that's

00:35:23 ◼   ► nice and like when I was printed in the magazine, my grandparents went out and bought like 10

00:35:28 ◼   ► copies of the magazine. My mom went out and bought copy and like showed all of her friends

00:35:31 ◼   ► like yep. It's and like this is like without old publications like Mac world. It's hard

00:35:38 ◼   ► to start to impress old people. Yes, I really old people like pair our parents and grandparents.

00:35:43 ◼   ► Yes. I mean, it's really it's an end of an era like was it used to be Mac world expos

00:35:47 ◼   ► were Apple to announce their stuff paper magazines were the king they had huge staffs. I'm I

00:35:51 ◼   ► I remember talking to Jason the first times I met him about,

00:35:54 ◼   ► I really love when MacWorld and MacUser used to do those reviews of printers

00:35:57 ◼   ► and they would show magnified versions of the serifs on the different letters,

00:36:01 ◼   ► the output of laser printers, and you'd have like,

00:36:04 ◼   ► it was kind of like DPReview as today for a photographer,

00:36:06 ◼   ► where you'd see like an entire page spread of like all the little serifs on a letter T

00:36:10 ◼   ► with all the different printers so you could see which printer did the serifs better,

00:36:13 ◼   ► and they're like huge, extensive, really detailed reviews,

00:36:16 ◼   ► and he said, "But we just don't have the staff for that anymore."

00:36:18 ◼   ► Like, I mean, it's the, you know, it's the same everywhere.

00:36:20 ◼   ► It's a slow steady decline of paper publications,

00:36:22 ◼   ► whether it be newspaper, paper magazines, and everything else.

00:36:25 ◼   ► It just seems like under different or better leadership,

00:36:28 ◼   ► Macworld had the staff and the skills

00:36:31 ◼   ► to make the transition completely

00:36:32 ◼   ► into a viable website like all the other tech websites.

00:36:35 ◼   ► It's just that it just didn't happen.

00:36:39 ◼   ► And I think no matter how you do it, it's a hard business.

00:36:42 ◼   ► I mean, I ran a magazine briefly.

00:36:45 ◼   ► And even running a small iPad magazine

00:36:50 ◼   ► that had no full-time staff,

00:36:52 ◼   ► and then eventually one full-time staff,

00:36:54 ◼   ► and then had no print edition, had no photographers,

00:36:58 ◼   ► no like half of an editor first, then a full editor.

00:37:01 ◼   ► I was doing it on such a tiny scale,

00:37:05 ◼   ► and it was really hard to make that work,

00:37:07 ◼   ► even with almost no overhead, with no history,

00:37:12 ◼   ► no old obligations, like nothing like that,

00:37:14 ◼   ► and it was impossible for me to make that work myself.

00:37:18 ◼   ► I know this, and even just running my own website

00:37:21 ◼   ► and seeing other people run their websites,

00:37:23 ◼   ► and I know the economics of this are challenging.

00:37:26 ◼   ► And it's very easy to be a hobbyist

00:37:30 ◼   ► or a part-timer in this field.

00:37:34 ◼   ► It is very hard to have a big enough company

00:37:37 ◼   ► that you can afford to hire other people full-time

00:37:39 ◼   ► and do things properly, do things well,

00:37:43 ◼   ► do things with professional journalist standards.

00:37:45 ◼   ► It is extremely hard to fund that.

00:37:48 ◼   ► And I think you can look around and see how few places

00:37:51 ◼   ► are that way and how well they're doing.

00:37:53 ◼   ► And you can kind of see that, you know,

00:37:56 ◼   ► this was, you know, I don't know the Macworld management.

00:37:58 ◼   ► I don't know how they were running things over there.

00:38:01 ◼   ► But I would say that under any management,

00:38:04 ◼   ► this probably would have still happened.

00:38:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just really crummy.

00:38:08 ◼   ► - We are also sponsored this week by Warby Parker.

00:38:11 ◼   ► Warby Parker believes that prescription eyeglasses

00:38:13 ◼   ► simply should not cost $300 or more.

00:38:16 ◼   ► They bypass the traditional retail channels and sell higher quality, better looking prescription

00:38:20 ◼   ► eyeglasses online at a fraction of the usual retail prices.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Their glasses start at just $95.

00:38:27 ◼   ► You can see this for yourself at warbyparker.com/att.

00:38:37 ◼   ► Warby Parker's designs are vintage inspired with a contemporary twist.

00:38:41 ◼   ► Every pair is a custom fit to you.

00:38:43 ◼   ► anti-reflective, anti-glare polycarbonate prescription lenses and every pair comes

00:38:48 ◼   ► with a very nice hard case and a cleaning cloth so you don't need to buy

00:38:51 ◼   ► any overpriced accessories on top of that additional price. They now offer

00:38:55 ◼   ► progressive lenses starting at just $295 including frames. This is a very advanced

00:39:00 ◼   ► type of lens. I believe from from listening to Dan and Merlin's slow

00:39:04 ◼   ► descent into insanity, from what I gather this is like what replaced bifocals

00:39:09 ◼   ► and modern lenses.

00:39:10 ◼   ► Do I have that right?

00:39:11 ◼   ► Well, anyway, if you wear progressive lenses,

00:39:14 ◼   ► or if you need progressive lenses,

00:39:16 ◼   ► they now have that at Warby Parker now

00:39:18 ◼   ► for a great price compared to what you pay anywhere else.

00:39:21 ◼   ► Progressive lenses have a distance prescription at the top

00:39:24 ◼   ► and then transition to a reading lens near the bottom.

00:39:26 ◼   ► That's how they work.

00:39:27 ◼   ► So it is, I think it is like old bifocals, right?

00:39:29 ◼   ► They probably just look a lot better and work a lot better.

00:39:31 ◼   ► Anyway, Warby Parker's progressives

00:39:33 ◼   ► are digital freeform lenses,

00:39:35 ◼   ► which this is the most advanced progressive technology

00:39:37 ◼   ► for manufacturing.

00:39:38 ◼   ► This is higher precision and a larger field of vision

00:39:41 ◼   ► than traditional progressive lenses.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Now, buying glasses online sounds like it would be risky.

00:39:46 ◼   ► Like, how would you know whether they'll fit

00:39:48 ◼   ► or whether they'll look good on you?

00:39:50 ◼   ► Warby Parker has you covered.

00:39:52 ◼   ► First, their website has a helpful tool

00:39:53 ◼   ► that uses your computer's webcam to give you a preview

00:39:56 ◼   ► of how the glasses will look on your face.

00:39:57 ◼   ► It can even help you measure your eyes and face

00:39:59 ◼   ► to get the fit exactly right.

00:40:01 ◼   ► And I actually know, my wife did this exact same thing

00:40:03 ◼   ► on their site and it was really nice.

00:40:06 ◼   ► I was very impressed by how good their online tools were.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Now, once you get past that though,

00:40:12 ◼   ► they have this great thing called the Home Try-On Program.

00:40:15 ◼   ► So you can borrow up to five pairs of glasses risk-free.

00:40:18 ◼   ► They will ship them to you for free.

00:40:20 ◼   ► You can try them on in the comfort of your own home

00:40:22 ◼   ► for five days, and then you can send them back

00:40:24 ◼   ► with a prepaid return label.

00:40:26 ◼   ► There is no obligation to buy,

00:40:27 ◼   ► and all of it is completely free.

00:40:30 ◼   ► They also offer prescription and non-prescription

00:40:32 ◼   ► polarized sunglasses, which is one of the reasons

00:40:34 ◼   ► I'm looking at them.

00:40:35 ◼   ► because I have definitely lost the biological lottery

00:40:38 ◼   ► in a few areas, but fortunately I have very good eyes.

00:40:41 ◼   ► So I at least have that going for me.

00:40:44 ◼   ► So I don't need prescriptions,

00:40:45 ◼   ► but I'm looking at them for sunglasses

00:40:46 ◼   ► because it is so hard to find good sunglasses

00:40:49 ◼   ► for reasonable prices and they have a great selection.

00:40:52 ◼   ► And if you need prescription sunglasses,

00:40:54 ◼   ► of course they got you covered there too.

00:40:56 ◼   ► And they are polarized,

00:40:57 ◼   ► which I know this might be controversial on the talk show,

00:41:00 ◼   ► but I love polarized sunglasses

00:41:01 ◼   ► and I don't have any problems with various LCD screens

00:41:04 ◼   ► looking weird at the angle that I look at them

00:41:06 ◼   ► with polarized glasses.

00:41:07 ◼   ► Warby Parker also believes in giving back to the world.

00:41:10 ◼   ► For every pair of glasses they sell,

00:41:11 ◼   ► they also give another pair to someone in need

00:41:14 ◼   ► through various vision charities.

00:41:16 ◼   ► So anyway, go to warbyparker.com/atp.

00:41:19 ◼   ► Check out their great selection

00:41:21 ◼   ► of premium quality affordable eyewear.

00:41:23 ◼   ► Get yourself one of the risk-free home try-on kits for free.

00:41:27 ◼   ► Try on up to five pairs of glasses for five days

00:41:29 ◼   ► right in your own home.

00:41:30 ◼   ► You can see how they look,

00:41:31 ◼   ► you can ask your significant other,

00:41:32 ◼   ► you can even wear them outside if you want to

00:41:34 ◼   ► ask other people. Anyway, thanks a lot warbyparker.com/ATP.

00:41:40 ◼   ► I have some bad news for you about your perfect vision, Marco.

00:41:44 ◼   ► Look, I don't expect it to last. Right about when your son is entering high school,

00:41:48 ◼   ► you'll be able to take advantage of those prescription lenses. Anyway,

00:41:52 ◼   ► so there was an Apple event that we almost saw. That we almost saw, and then we saw

00:41:56 ◼   ► it in multiple languages all at once. Can we just start by

00:42:00 ◼   ► saying that, I'll start by saying that I'm so disappointed that this story that

00:42:04 ◼   ► someone, this post that someone wrote about what they think caused Apple's

00:42:07 ◼   ► streaming problems, it's just passed around everywhere and like every time I

00:42:11 ◼   ► saw it on upside I'm like no not you too. If you saw a story today trying to

00:42:16 ◼   ► explain what Apple streaming's woes were, chances are you saw this story whose

00:42:21 ◼   ► link I don't even have in the show notes. I believe it's like streaming media

00:42:24 ◼   ► blog.com or streaming something blog. Yes it did not appear to have any good

00:42:28 ◼   ► information and it looked it just didn't make any sense and everyone who knows

00:42:33 ◼   ► anything about websites or web technology all said that and yet it

00:42:37 ◼   ► still ran on every single site so I find that disappointing it was talking about

00:42:42 ◼   ► like the interactive blog stuff and the JSON things like there were nuggets of

00:42:45 ◼   ► truth in there but none like there was no inside information and the

00:42:49 ◼   ► speculation didn't make any sense and yet everyone ran it like here's an

00:42:52 ◼   ► explanation of why Apple streaming sucked it did not explain it very well

00:42:55 ◼   ► well at all. It did not seem to have conclusive inside information and yet it

00:42:59 ◼   ► gets spread everywhere. Anyway, let's ignore that for now. I didn't think that was a good

00:43:02 ◼   ► article. We don't know why they screwed up. Apple has done streaming many times

00:43:06 ◼   ► in the past and not screwed up. This week was not one of those times they

00:43:12 ◼   ► screwed up. Although I will say, you know, since I don't trust their streams will

00:43:15 ◼   ► ever be good, I had a multi-redundant solution going here with Apple TV,

00:43:20 ◼   ► a VPN connection and then my actual home ISP, you know, regularly.

00:43:25 ◼   ► And among those three of those, I always had a stream that was working.

00:43:29 ◼   ► Now granted, the stream that was working very often had Chinese over the top of it.

00:43:33 ◼   ► And then after the Chinese was gone, it had Japanese.

00:43:35 ◼   ► But eventually, when we got to the good part, everything was solid.

00:43:40 ◼   ► They had serious problems with their AV stuff, but I was happy that all those technical difficulties

00:43:44 ◼   ► happened in like the first half an hour, 40 minutes or whatever.

00:43:47 ◼   ► when they got to the big announcement,

00:43:48 ◼   ► everything was nice and clear.

00:43:49 ◼   ► Anyway, let's talk about what they announced

00:43:52 ◼   ► because we don't have that much time left.

00:43:54 ◼   ► - Can we start at the very beginning with the intro video?

00:43:56 ◼   ► - I give a thumbs down to the intro video.

00:43:59 ◼   ► - So the problem I have,

00:44:01 ◼   ► I watched, I sort of watched the stream when it happened.

00:44:04 ◼   ► And then last night in preparation for today,

00:44:06 ◼   ► I watched it again and it actually worked this time.

00:44:11 ◼   ► A lot of what happened during the presentation

00:44:16 ◼   ► made me just kind of cringe and do the thing.

00:44:20 ◼   ► And like the beginning intro video,

00:44:22 ◼   ► when they first did it, I don't know,

00:44:24 ◼   ► like a WWDC or two ago, I was like,

00:44:26 ◼   ► "Oh yeah, that's pretty awesome."

00:44:29 ◼   ► But I feel like doing this every time

00:44:31 ◼   ► is getting a little self-indulgent.

00:44:33 ◼   ► And I feel like a lot of the things they did,

00:44:37 ◼   ► if this was Samsung that did the exact same thing,

00:44:41 ◼   ► the internet would have lost it.

00:44:43 ◼   ► - No, you need to watch the Samsung thing

00:44:45 ◼   ► to know what you're really talking about.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Watch the Samsung, what was it, Galaxy S4 was it?

00:44:50 ◼   ► You don't know, I dare you to watch the Samsung,

00:44:55 ◼   ► and you'll feel better about this.

00:44:56 ◼   ► But anyway, I didn't like this intro,

00:44:58 ◼   ► I think it's because of this specific intro video.

00:45:00 ◼   ► The intro video with the dots that they showed seven times,

00:45:02 ◼   ► I thought that was fantastic.

00:45:03 ◼   ► It was short, it was to the point.

00:45:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, the first three times it was great.

00:45:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was short, it's to the point, it's clever,

00:45:09 ◼   ► it makes its point in both words and in images.

00:45:13 ◼   ► This one was overly long, was showing us a trick

00:45:17 ◼   ► that we've all seen from that OK Go video,

00:45:18 ◼   ► and OK Go is apparently all pissed about that.

00:45:20 ◼   ► By the way, if you haven't seen this video,

00:45:21 ◼   ► we're talking about it, it's the very beginning

00:45:23 ◼   ► of the show, those things where you look at a room

00:45:26 ◼   ► from a certain angle and all the little markings

00:45:27 ◼   ► in the floor and wall line up to make it look like text

00:45:30 ◼   ► that's sort of floating in front of you.

00:45:32 ◼   ► It's a whole bunch of real world physical optical illusions

00:45:35 ◼   ► that they bring the camera through.

00:45:37 ◼   ► Anyway, it just dragged on and the things it was saying

00:45:41 ◼   ► and the little words were just, it wasn't as tight.

00:45:46 ◼   ► It was, you know, it just, you know, anyway,

00:45:48 ◼   ► I think having intro video fine,

00:45:50 ◼   ► especially on an event like this that's so important

00:45:52 ◼   ► with the whole Apple Watch being introduced

00:45:53 ◼   ► and all this other stuff,

00:45:55 ◼   ► I think having intro video was appropriate,

00:45:56 ◼   ► this just wasn't a great one.

00:45:58 ◼   ► - See, I'm with you, like, I think it was just boring.

00:46:02 ◼   ► Like, you know, we have to realize

00:46:04 ◼   ► that what we're watching here, this is a marketing event,

00:46:07 ◼   ► and we're watching a two-hour long commercial.

00:46:11 ◼   ► And when you have great, amazing products being announced

00:46:14 ◼   ► and you have great personalities announcing them,

00:46:18 ◼   ► it's easy to forget that and see it

00:46:20 ◼   ► as this great, exciting event and actually really get into it

00:46:23 ◼   ► and get into the fun and the wonder of it.

00:46:26 ◼   ► But when you get too far into the pre-produced videos

00:46:31 ◼   ► and marketing messages and everything,

00:46:33 ◼   ► the illusion starts to fall apart a little bit.

00:46:35 ◼   ► And that's why moments like that, I thought,

00:46:38 ◼   ► or when they are too video heavy in general in the keynote,

00:46:41 ◼   ► or when they're like,

00:46:42 ◼   ► here, we're gonna show you three commercials we've made.

00:46:45 ◼   ► I don't like the movie showing off the commercials

00:46:48 ◼   ► in the keynote, 'cause it helps contribute

00:46:52 ◼   ► to breaking that illusion and to reminding us

00:46:54 ◼   ► that we're watching a two-hour-long commercial

00:46:56 ◼   ► rather than the way we probably like to think of it

00:46:59 ◼   ► as an exciting announcement for our industry

00:47:02 ◼   ► and the future of our society using these devices.

00:47:04 ◼   ► That's how the good ones make us feel.

00:47:08 ◼   ► but whenever they go off on too much

00:47:10 ◼   ► like commercial video basically and marketing messages,

00:47:14 ◼   ► I think this, I think it breaks that a little bit.

00:47:16 ◼   ► - I think it really depends on the thing.

00:47:17 ◼   ► Sometimes they show us a commercial

00:47:19 ◼   ► and especially when it was Steve Jobs,

00:47:20 ◼   ► commercials are 30 seconds, they're usually funny,

00:47:24 ◼   ► it's not a big deal, it's over quick

00:47:25 ◼   ► and he was always so excited to show you

00:47:26 ◼   ► whatever commercial he was excited about.

00:47:28 ◼   ► The videos where it's some talking head

00:47:31 ◼   ► on a white background telling you about what they had to do

00:47:33 ◼   ► to design the whatever part of the whatever,

00:47:35 ◼   ► those can at least sometimes be interesting and cool

00:47:38 ◼   ► and they spend a lot of time on them.

00:47:40 ◼   ► I think incorporating one into a keynote

00:47:43 ◼   ► is a reasonable thing to do.

00:47:44 ◼   ► It's the sort of touchy-feely ones

00:47:49 ◼   ► where it's really easy to go off the rails.

00:47:51 ◼   ► And I think the touchy-feely intro was a little bit--

00:47:55 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:47:56 ◼   ► It seemed just too fuzzy and vague.

00:47:59 ◼   ► It did not seem as precise as the other little dots

00:48:03 ◼   ► and lines video.

00:48:04 ◼   ► It seemed just like a bunch of weird platitudes

00:48:07 ◼   ► that did not connect in a way the other video did

00:48:11 ◼   ► with either things we already believe about Apple

00:48:13 ◼   ► or things that we were going to believe

00:48:15 ◼   ► after seeing the thing, it just ended up, you know.

00:48:17 ◼   ► But anyway, I don't think they'll ever show that one again.

00:48:18 ◼   ► I hope they don't, unlike the DOTS one,

00:48:20 ◼   ► which they obviously really loved.

00:48:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the intro video was nowhere near as bad

00:48:26 ◼   ► as the infomercial that was in the center

00:48:28 ◼   ► of the presentation, but we'll get to that later.

00:48:30 ◼   ► - Which one, the watch one?

00:48:31 ◼   ► - Here's how you pay with a credit card,

00:48:35 ◼   ► and oh my God, it's so hard.

00:48:36 ◼   ► - That was actually funny at least.

00:48:38 ◼   ► - Oh no, it was not.

00:48:39 ◼   ► - I think it was unintentionally funny.

00:48:41 ◼   ► - Oh God, this is gonna last so long.

00:48:43 ◼   ► All right, so let's talk about the iPhones,

00:48:46 ◼   ► which was the first thing they announced.

00:48:49 ◼   ► The iPhone 6, my initial impressions,

00:48:51 ◼   ► 6 and 6 Plus, excuse me.

00:48:53 ◼   ► My initial impressions, it's bigger, meh.

00:48:55 ◼   ► Remind me of this when I eventually get a bigger phone

00:48:58 ◼   ► and I tell you it's the best thing ever.

00:49:01 ◼   ► I really am not digging the lens protruding

00:49:04 ◼   ► on the back of the phone.

00:49:06 ◼   ► And I'm surprised that the internet didn't lose their crap

00:49:09 ◼   ► about that either.

00:49:10 ◼   ► - Some people have, but take it from me

00:49:12 ◼   ► as an iPod Touch owner with a protruding lens

00:49:14 ◼   ► for many years, it's not as bad as you think it is,

00:49:17 ◼   ► it's fine, you'll be okay, trust me.

00:49:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:49:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it's one of those things like,

00:49:22 ◼   ► I did see, I'm sorry, I forget who it was

00:49:24 ◼   ► and I should credit, but I totally forgot,

00:49:27 ◼   ► but I saw there was a series of tweets by somebody

00:49:29 ◼   ► that was retweeted a million times and eventually got to me

00:49:31 ◼   ► where it was like, you know,

00:49:34 ◼   ► the entire world is asking for better battery life.

00:49:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, that was Forgotten Towel, I believe.

00:49:40 ◼   ► - Everyone is asking for more battery life.

00:49:43 ◼   ► Nobody is saying, boy, I really love my iPhone 5,

00:49:46 ◼   ► but it's too thick.

00:49:46 ◼   ► Everyone is saying, boy, I really love my iPhone 5S,

00:49:49 ◼   ► but I wish the battery lasted longer.

00:49:51 ◼   ► But anyway, I think, you know, we'll see.

00:49:53 ◼   ► I don't think that the battery life

00:49:56 ◼   ► for the 5S is that terrible.

00:49:58 ◼   ► I like the idea of things getting thinner

00:50:01 ◼   ► if you really care, get a giant phone.

00:50:03 ◼   ► The most noteworthy thing about the iPhone part

00:50:06 ◼   ► is that once again, all the parts leaks were dead on.

00:50:09 ◼   ► The only thing that people didn't know

00:50:12 ◼   ► were the resolutions, which Gruber had obsessed over

00:50:15 ◼   ► and he got one right and one wrong.

00:50:18 ◼   ► And the whole Sapphire screen thing,

00:50:20 ◼   ► the screen has some kind of coding on it,

00:50:23 ◼   ► I forget what word they're using for it.

00:50:24 ◼   ► - They said like an ion deposited screen or something, right?

00:50:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, it probably is the screen they were testing

00:50:29 ◼   ► in all those videos. - Yep.

00:50:30 ◼   ► but it's not made of Sapphire or any other.

00:50:33 ◼   ► There's Sapphire in it.

00:50:34 ◼   ► Apple didn't mention it.

00:50:36 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:50:37 ◼   ► That was obviously not the thrust of the phones.

00:50:40 ◼   ► Otherwise they're exactly what everybody showed

00:50:42 ◼   ► in all those different parts leaks.

00:50:44 ◼   ► And they have all the things we wanted.

00:50:45 ◼   ► The A8 we didn't know much about.

00:50:46 ◼   ► We still don't know much about.

00:50:47 ◼   ► I assume the phones all have one gig

00:50:49 ◼   ► or I would have heard about it by now.

00:50:50 ◼   ► Do you guys all know?

00:50:51 ◼   ► - That's what I've heard.

00:50:53 ◼   ► - I mean, maybe, I don't know.

00:50:54 ◼   ► I think, I feel like I would have heard about it.

00:50:56 ◼   ► It was gonna be two gig.

00:50:57 ◼   ► It looks like an A7 that's tweaked

00:50:59 ◼   ► because the speed increase was, what did they say,

00:51:01 ◼   ► like 15% or 20%?

00:51:02 ◼   ► It's not like when the AA7 came out today,

00:51:05 ◼   ► this is twice as fast as the A6.

00:51:06 ◼   ► It's not like that kind of leap.

00:51:08 ◼   ► The GPU makes a bigger leap,

00:51:09 ◼   ► but it's always easier to make a bigger leap with GPU

00:51:11 ◼   ► because you just add more execution units.

00:51:14 ◼   ► It's 20 nanometer, which is good.

00:51:16 ◼   ► That's sort of a, you know, of the same,

00:51:19 ◼   ► like, so Intel is going to 14 nanometer with Broadwell

00:51:22 ◼   ► if it can ever ship them.

00:51:23 ◼   ► So Intel is still ahead,

00:51:25 ◼   ► but Intel's previous process was 22 nanometers.

00:51:27 ◼   ► So this is kind of like,

00:51:28 ◼   ► It's a big leap up from 28.

00:51:30 ◼   ► It's not down to 14, but it's significant.

00:51:33 ◼   ► So these look like good phones,

00:51:36 ◼   ► the camera with the extra optical stabilization

00:51:39 ◼   ► and all that other stuff.

00:51:40 ◼   ► The protruding, like I said, won't be a big deal,

00:51:42 ◼   ► especially with people who use cases,

00:51:43 ◼   ► the protruding will actually be a non-issue entirely.

00:51:47 ◼   ► - Also, the optical image stabilization

00:51:49 ◼   ► is only in the big one.

00:51:50 ◼   ► And what I thought was interesting was

00:51:53 ◼   ► when they were describing the optical image stabilization

00:51:55 ◼   ► and how it worked, they said it uses the M7

00:51:58 ◼   ► and the CPU to move the lens around.

00:52:02 ◼   ► Now, see, I don't know how optical stabilization

00:52:05 ◼   ► works in point-and-shoots,

00:52:07 ◼   ► but I do know how it works in SLRs,

00:52:08 ◼   ► and in SLRs, optilinear stabilization is like,

00:52:12 ◼   ► the lens element itself spins.

00:52:15 ◼   ► And, at least this is how Canon's works.

00:52:17 ◼   ► And so, it has its own gyroscopic effect

00:52:20 ◼   ► so that the movement is instantaneous, and so it's awesome.

00:52:23 ◼   ► I can't imagine, if it's shifting the element around,

00:52:27 ◼   ► like using software to sense gyroscopic input

00:52:30 ◼   ► and then shift the thing around.

00:52:32 ◼   ► How is that fast enough?

00:52:33 ◼   ► Software is really fast.

00:52:35 ◼   ► Computers are really fast.

00:52:37 ◼   ► Instructions execute in nanoseconds.

00:52:39 ◼   ► And it's probably like the things that are moving it.

00:52:42 ◼   ► First of all, it's not moving it much.

00:52:45 ◼   ► And second, it can move at those small distances very quickly.

00:52:49 ◼   ► So the thing they showed in the video

00:52:51 ◼   ► is obviously a crazily exaggerated.

00:52:52 ◼   ► Like, they can move up and down.

00:52:55 ◼   ► It's more like a barely visible vibration, I would assume.

00:53:00 ◼   ► Obviously, it's not going to be as good as optical image

00:53:03 ◼   ► stabilization and SLR, but they're

00:53:05 ◼   ► doing what they can to try to make it so that if they have

00:53:07 ◼   ► to leave the shutter open a little bit longer because it's

00:53:09 ◼   ► dark, you don't get as much blur.

00:53:11 ◼   ► Don't expect miracles from this.

00:53:12 ◼   ► It's still a camera the size of a thimble.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Yeah, and the other thing is-- and it's in only the big one.

00:53:17 ◼   ► Now, have you guys done the printed out paper things?

00:53:21 ◼   ► Of course.

00:53:22 ◼   ► No, but I saw you did.

00:53:23 ◼   ► I did not.

00:53:24 ◼   ► I'm just going to wait.

00:53:25 ◼   ► So I printed out the paper,

00:53:26 ◼   ► I'm willing to in the show notes of, you know,

00:53:28 ◼   ► where you can get these PDFs.

00:53:30 ◼   ► I think what's interesting,

00:53:33 ◼   ► so before I printed this out,

00:53:35 ◼   ► I was saying, you know what,

00:53:37 ◼   ► if the big one has a better camera,

00:53:39 ◼   ► I'll just get the big one,

00:53:40 ◼   ► because having a better camera is important to me.

00:53:42 ◼   ► And if it has any other major improvements,

00:53:45 ◼   ► I'll get the big one.

00:53:46 ◼   ► Then I printed this out, and then I cut them out,

00:53:48 ◼   ► and then I actually tried holding the big one

00:53:51 ◼   ► and the small one.

00:53:53 ◼   ► And oh my God, it is so frickin' big.

00:53:56 ◼   ► Like the 5.5, the 6 Plus, wow.

00:54:00 ◼   ► Like it is so big that if I hold it

00:54:02 ◼   ► the way I usually hold a phone,

00:54:03 ◼   ► which is I hold it on my left hand,

00:54:05 ◼   ► corner of the phone is resting in my palm,

00:54:09 ◼   ► fingers are wrapped around the right side,

00:54:10 ◼   ► thumbs on the left side, I can't reach the home button.

00:54:15 ◼   ► Like that's how, like I can't,

00:54:16 ◼   ► my thumb can't reach the home button.

00:54:18 ◼   ► - Oh God, that's a good point.

00:54:19 ◼   ► - Like it's crazy.

00:54:20 ◼   ► Like, so even even they're like their thing that drops the screen down to reachability.

00:54:25 ◼   ► That's what they're using that word.

00:54:27 ◼   ► So janky.

00:54:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:29 ◼   ► Even that, which is Yeah, that's not a great salute.

00:54:31 ◼   ► It I mean, I guess it's better than like, putting it in a corner.

00:54:35 ◼   ► I guess it's better than shrinking the hospital corner, but maybe just barely better.

00:54:38 ◼   ► Like it's not that much.

00:54:40 ◼   ► But people don't use those giant phones that way.

00:54:41 ◼   ► I've seen a lot of people using a giant and they don't use them holding them the way you're

00:54:44 ◼   ► holding them.

00:54:45 ◼   ► They use them either like a sidekick where you're holding it in landscape and using your

00:54:48 ◼   ► your thumbs to type or they use it two handed.

00:54:50 ◼   ► And sometimes they're using it like the Galaxy Note,

00:54:52 ◼   ► sometimes they're using it two handed and with the stylus.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Now there's no stylus for this,

00:54:55 ◼   ► but you can buy after market ones.

00:54:56 ◼   ► In fact, my mother has one of those and she likes using it.

00:54:59 ◼   ► It's very strange.

00:55:00 ◼   ► But anyway, they're not using it the way you're using it.

00:55:02 ◼   ► You're trying to use it like a traditional iPhone

00:55:04 ◼   ► with your one hand and it's totally awkward that way.

00:55:08 ◼   ► Now the one handed mode thing,

00:55:09 ◼   ► that is a very pragmatic solution.

00:55:11 ◼   ► It's not great, but it's certainly better than nothing.

00:55:14 ◼   ► The worst thing I think it might do is encourage people

00:55:17 ◼   ► to think that they can use it that way,

00:55:19 ◼   ► because that's not gonna save you.

00:55:20 ◼   ► The little double tap home button would slide down,

00:55:22 ◼   ► that's not gonna save you from,

00:55:23 ◼   ► like you said, you can't even get to the home button

00:55:24 ◼   ► if you try to hold it that way.

00:55:26 ◼   ► I feel like the people who know they want this phone

00:55:29 ◼   ► already are handling giant phones like this,

00:55:31 ◼   ► or have had them in the past,

00:55:33 ◼   ► or they're gonna use them differently.

00:55:35 ◼   ► It's kind of like saying when the iPad came out,

00:55:37 ◼   ► I can't even wrap my hand around this thing,

00:55:39 ◼   ► my hand's already, you don't hold it that way,

00:55:40 ◼   ► you don't use it that way, it's a different form factor.

00:55:43 ◼   ► So if this was the only phone, it would be disastrous,

00:55:45 ◼   ► but it's not and everyone who's tried the 4.7

00:55:48 ◼   ► tells me it's reasonable.

00:55:50 ◼   ► I am reserving judgment until I can try one myself,

00:55:52 ◼   ► not made of paper.

00:55:54 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I mean obviously this could be different

00:55:56 ◼   ► once you get it in your hand,

00:55:57 ◼   ► but the paper prototypes make it,

00:56:01 ◼   ► it makes it so that I am definitely gonna get the 4.7.

00:56:05 ◼   ► And so, and let me tell you why also,

00:56:07 ◼   ► like this is why it was also easier for me

00:56:09 ◼   ► to make this decision and just like,

00:56:11 ◼   ► if I can pre-order it, which actually I can't

00:56:13 ◼   ► 'cause of stupid upgrade eligibility, anyway,

00:56:15 ◼   ► I'm just gonna get the 5.7, the 4.7.

00:56:17 ◼   ► I'm not gonna try to try to get both and return one

00:56:20 ◼   ► and try to get the 5.5 and try to try it first in the store

00:56:23 ◼   ► 'cause I know I won't be able to.

00:56:25 ◼   ► The reason why is twofold.

00:56:27 ◼   ► Number one, it's not like this is the only year

00:56:29 ◼   ► we're gonna have this size.

00:56:31 ◼   ► 4.7 is already a huge upgrade, so let me go to that first

00:56:34 ◼   ► and then see if that's big enough

00:56:36 ◼   ► before I start jumping over another size.

00:56:39 ◼   ► Second, the 5.5 is so big and unwieldy

00:56:43 ◼   ► and it's so poor for single-handed use,

00:56:46 ◼   ► apparently, obviously I can't confirm it yet,

00:56:49 ◼   ► that I feel like it will do better

00:56:53 ◼   ► in a world where the watch is commonplace.

00:56:56 ◼   ► Because the watch will, in many situations

00:57:00 ◼   ► in which you'd be taking out your phone

00:57:01 ◼   ► and having to use it one-handed,

00:57:01 ◼   ► like if you have to take out your phone

00:57:03 ◼   ► while you're walking down the street,

00:57:05 ◼   ► or like walking the dog, something like that,

00:57:08 ◼   ► that's a situation where you'd use your phone

00:57:10 ◼   ► with one hand to do something quick.

00:57:12 ◼   ► the watch will presumably eliminate a lot of those needs

00:57:16 ◼   ► to take the phone out of your pocket

00:57:17 ◼   ► for that kind of situation.

00:57:19 ◼   ► And so I'm thinking the 5.5 might make more sense

00:57:23 ◼   ► to get next year, 'cause the watch isn't even gonna be out,

00:57:26 ◼   ► supposedly, until early 2015 or spring,

00:57:29 ◼   ► whatever word they used.

00:57:30 ◼   ► That probably means April, you know,

00:57:33 ◼   ► or maybe later, and that's if it's on time.

00:57:35 ◼   ► It might mean June, you know, like we don't know.

00:57:37 ◼   ► And then the next iPhones will be out

00:57:39 ◼   ► next September probably.

00:57:41 ◼   ► And so, you know, this is the kind of thing like,

00:57:45 ◼   ► once the watch is commonplace,

00:57:47 ◼   ► I think the bigger phone will be more palatable

00:57:50 ◼   ► to more people and it might be a better trade off

00:57:52 ◼   ► 'cause like, I would like a better camera,

00:57:54 ◼   ► I would like better battery life,

00:57:55 ◼   ► I would like a big screen when I'm using certain things,

00:57:58 ◼   ► when I'm reading certain things,

00:57:59 ◼   ► when I'm browsing websites,

00:58:00 ◼   ► like I would like the bigger screen in some cases.

00:58:04 ◼   ► But because I still have to keep taking it out of my pockets,

00:58:06 ◼   ► do all sorts of one handed things so often,

00:58:08 ◼   ► that's gonna be a problem.

00:58:09 ◼   ► Whereas in the future, that might not be the case.

00:58:12 ◼   ► - Which one do you think you're gonna get, a 64 or 128?

00:58:15 ◼   ► - That's the great thing that made this decision easy.

00:58:16 ◼   ► I've been getting 64 for the last few revisions

00:58:19 ◼   ► of the device, only because 32 just wasn't

00:58:22 ◼   ► quite enough space sometimes, but a 64,

00:58:25 ◼   ► I've never filled up a 64 gig device reasonably.

00:58:28 ◼   ► So I'm gonna keep getting 64,

00:58:30 ◼   ► now it's just 100 bucks cheaper.

00:58:32 ◼   ► I think, and John, I'm curious,

00:58:34 ◼   ► what do you think of the new capacities in pricing?

00:58:38 ◼   ► It didn't predict it.

00:58:39 ◼   ► It's a very clever way to succumb to the realities

00:58:44 ◼   ► of reduced parts prices over the years.

00:58:47 ◼   ► Like Apple has been living in a fantasy world

00:58:49 ◼   ► where 1632 and 64 gigs of flash of the required spec

00:58:54 ◼   ► is somehow has not changed in price

00:58:56 ◼   ► in like the however many years

00:58:58 ◼   ► they've been running these capacity.

00:58:59 ◼   ► - Seven years or something.

00:59:01 ◼   ► - No, because they used to be, anyway,

00:59:03 ◼   ► they have, it's just been way too long

00:59:04 ◼   ► and they're like, all right, all right, here's a 128,

00:59:07 ◼   ► Here's the 64, but the low end model is still 16.

00:59:11 ◼   ► It seems punitive.

00:59:11 ◼   ► Like I've said, it's like the RAM thing.

00:59:13 ◼   ► I think this is a decision made by people

00:59:18 ◼   ► who are worried about Apple's margins

00:59:20 ◼   ► more than they're worried about Apple's customer experience.

00:59:23 ◼   ► Not that I'm saying you can't have a 16

00:59:24 ◼   ► or even an eight for people who want it,

00:59:26 ◼   ► but if you're only gonna have three models,

00:59:28 ◼   ► to continue to sell the 16 and make it the cheapest one

00:59:30 ◼   ► is gonna drive a lot of people who are price sensitive

00:59:32 ◼   ► into a phone that does not have enough capacity

00:59:35 ◼   ► for the things they're gonna do with it.

00:59:36 ◼   ► It's not saying that 16 isn't,

00:59:38 ◼   ► people are gonna say, "I have a 16, I never fill it."

00:59:40 ◼   ► That's fine, that's great.

00:59:41 ◼   ► It's just that because it's a low-end model,

00:59:43 ◼   ► people are gonna say, either they're gonna say,

00:59:45 ◼   ► "I have no idea what a gigabyte is,

00:59:47 ◼   ► "I just want the cheapest phone."

00:59:49 ◼   ► And they don't realize that they're the type of person

00:59:51 ◼   ► who take tons of video, or take a lot of pictures,

00:59:54 ◼   ► or wanna put a lot of, they don't know what their usage is.

00:59:56 ◼   ► And 16, I can tell you, even moderate usage,

01:00:00 ◼   ► if you fill it up with videos you take yourself,

01:00:03 ◼   ► and pictures and a couple of movies that you buy

01:00:07 ◼   ► and a lot of big apps, especially games,

01:00:09 ◼   ► which can be gigantic, you can fill 16 really quickly.

01:00:13 ◼   ► And that's a disappointing experience.

01:00:15 ◼   ► And there's really, like,

01:00:16 ◼   ► there's no price justification for that 16.

01:00:19 ◼   ► That 16 could have been a 32, which is twice as much.

01:00:21 ◼   ► And it's a big deal because that extra 16 is all storage,

01:00:25 ◼   ► whereas the original 16, part of that is by the OS

01:00:27 ◼   ► and all the other stuff.

01:00:29 ◼   ► So I think there's going to be an ever so slightly larger

01:00:32 ◼   ► group of people who are disappointed because they're price sensitive, they can't afford

01:00:37 ◼   ► the 32er, don't want to pay it, and they either don't know or have that they're going to fill

01:00:42 ◼   ► a 16 or have no choice but to try to fit their stuff in a 16.

01:00:45 ◼   ► And that's not a good experience because iOS generally does not behave well when it's out

01:00:48 ◼   ► of storage and it makes a bad experience.

01:00:51 ◼   ► Maybe the deleting of, you know, the auto deleting of message attachments, unless you

01:00:56 ◼   ► say save, will help a little bit in this regard for storage sizes.

01:00:59 ◼   ► But it's really disappointing to me, especially like in the in the six, like if they're going

01:01:03 ◼   ► to do that on the five or something or one of the other or the five C or whatever, like

01:01:08 ◼   ► you can keep that like I understand you have to have that in but for the flagship six line

01:01:13 ◼   ► to go 16 64 128 that 16 really sticks in my craw.

01:01:17 ◼   ► I do not like it.

01:01:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I wonder I wonder if they would mid cycle bump it up.

01:01:21 ◼   ► I mean, probably not.

01:01:22 ◼   ► They have done things like that in the past, but it's been a while.

01:01:25 ◼   ► But yeah, it just it looks like it's screwing you.

01:01:29 ◼   ► It doesn't look nice.

01:01:30 ◼   ► It looks like a cheap move.

01:01:32 ◼   ► - And they're differentiating on,

01:01:34 ◼   ► that's what they've chosen to differentiate on.

01:01:36 ◼   ► They don't differentiate on RAM, obviously,

01:01:38 ◼   ► 'cause they don't tell you anything about RAM.

01:01:40 ◼   ► And I think it is also disappointing

01:01:41 ◼   ► they still only have one gig,

01:01:42 ◼   ► but I can kind of excuse the RAM for power requirements.

01:01:46 ◼   ► You know, if, again, we get back to the thinness thing,

01:01:48 ◼   ► well, if you made the thing a millimeter thicker,

01:01:49 ◼   ► you wouldn't have to worry about that, would you, Apple?

01:01:50 ◼   ► But you can kind of excuse that,

01:01:54 ◼   ► but I mean, it should really have two gigs of this.

01:01:56 ◼   ► So it's not as important as it is in the iPad.

01:01:58 ◼   ► I really hope the next iPad Air does have two gigs

01:02:01 ◼   ► because it's just that, you know,

01:02:02 ◼   ► the assets and everything there are just so much bigger

01:02:06 ◼   ► in terms of like texture sizes and all this stuff.

01:02:08 ◼   ► It's not like there's a dedicated pool

01:02:10 ◼   ► of VRAM hanging off the side of this thing.

01:02:13 ◼   ► You know, so the RAM situation is more dire

01:02:15 ◼   ► on a thing with a giant screen

01:02:17 ◼   ► and the power constraints are much bigger on the iPhone.

01:02:20 ◼   ► But I mean, how long can we keep this up?

01:02:23 ◼   ► How long do we go with one gig?

01:02:26 ◼   ► this has got to be the last generation, right?

01:02:28 ◼   ► And I hope next, I mean, they're not going to do this

01:02:30 ◼   ► 'cause it's SOC thing, but like mentioned they went to,

01:02:32 ◼   ► okay, and the, you know, the iPhone 6S

01:02:34 ◼   ► or whatever the heck they're going to call it,

01:02:36 ◼   ► has two gigs of RAM, except for in the low end model,

01:02:38 ◼   ► which has 16 gigs of flash.

01:02:39 ◼   ► And anyway, they won't do that probably.

01:02:41 ◼   ► Yeah, they have to pick some,

01:02:45 ◼   ► what can you differentiate?

01:02:46 ◼   ► They come in colors, but those will cost the same.

01:02:49 ◼   ► They use the storage sizes as their tiering structure

01:02:51 ◼   ► for making you pay more money and to help their margins.

01:02:55 ◼   ► And now the screen sizes.

01:02:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, well the screen size too.

01:02:58 ◼   ► The screen size, I don't think they're using

01:02:59 ◼   ► the screen size for tiering,

01:03:01 ◼   ► 'cause a bigger screen just really does cost more.

01:03:03 ◼   ► Like, not $100 more, but that's kind of like their increment.

01:03:07 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:03:08 ◼   ► Like it's like, well, you know, that's very good.

01:03:11 ◼   ► Especially since like, people will pay more

01:03:14 ◼   ► for a larger television.

01:03:15 ◼   ► Like they understand you will pay more money

01:03:17 ◼   ► because it's bigger and has a bigger screen.

01:03:18 ◼   ► That's a thing that people will already accept.

01:03:20 ◼   ► Storage sizes is kind of like the thing

01:03:23 ◼   ► that they will differentiate on

01:03:24 ◼   ► that people don't really understand.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Like people don't even know the difference

01:03:26 ◼   ► between RAM and flash storage.

01:03:28 ◼   ► And they said, this is what we're gonna use as our dial

01:03:30 ◼   ► to make you pay more money.

01:03:31 ◼   ► - So John, if you were to get an iPhone,

01:03:33 ◼   ► which I'm assuming that you have no interest in still,

01:03:37 ◼   ► hypothetically, which model would you be getting?

01:03:40 ◼   ► - I have a lot of interest

01:03:41 ◼   ► if they don't ever update the iPod Touch again.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Suddenly my interest becomes very great, doesn't it?

01:03:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I would go for a 64, 4.7 inch iPhone 6.

01:03:52 ◼   ► - Wow.

01:03:54 ◼   ► I have to wait until they get into the store. I'm not gonna pre-order or anything like that

01:03:56 ◼   ► I have to wait until they get into the store. I have to try it in my hand

01:03:59 ◼   ► See what it's like. I really do like the rounded edges because I never liked how the five design

01:04:03 ◼   ► I like how this one looks and it's sort of it's in the black front sort of glamour shots that they make and

01:04:07 ◼   ► I like the idea of how I think it's going to feel in my hand because of the rounded edges. So I'm I

01:04:13 ◼   ► Like this design. I like this phone. I just don't know if it'll be too big

01:04:16 ◼   ► And if they do rev the iPod touch presumably it will be big anyway, so size may not be a factor because

01:04:22 ◼   ► you know, like I won't have a choice.

01:04:26 ◼   ► Like I can't keep using this old iPod touch.

01:04:28 ◼   ► The battery's getting a little wonky.

01:04:30 ◼   ► - So wait, so all three of us agree

01:04:32 ◼   ► that the phone that we choose would be a 64 gig,

01:04:37 ◼   ► well presumably different colors,

01:04:39 ◼   ► but 64 gig, 4.7 inch iPhone 6?

01:04:41 ◼   ► - No, we'd all get the same color.

01:04:43 ◼   ► - Black.

01:04:44 ◼   ► - Oh, I thought Marco you had a white one.

01:04:46 ◼   ► - Tim has a white one.

01:04:48 ◼   ► I was considering white and then I didn't get it.

01:04:50 ◼   ► And I actually, I like the new,

01:04:51 ◼   ► Like, because the black on the 5 was way too dark, but in the 5S, the new space gray color,

01:04:56 ◼   ► it's more like a gunmetal color, that's very nice.

01:04:59 ◼   ► I like that a lot.

01:05:00 ◼   ► Now, I love the space gray on my 5S.

01:05:04 ◼   ► Now, one thing I'd like to quickly talk about is, do we know—is Tiff going to upgrade,

01:05:11 ◼   ► and do we know what she's going to get?

01:05:13 ◼   ► Because I saw a lot of tweets fly by about her trying on the paper cutouts in different

01:05:18 ◼   ► and so on and so forth.

01:05:21 ◼   ► I was curious, has she concluded yet?

01:05:24 ◼   ► - I don't think she has.

01:05:25 ◼   ► We'll have to have her on at some point.

01:05:26 ◼   ► Maybe next week she's busy right now,

01:05:27 ◼   ► but maybe next week I'll have her on.

01:05:30 ◼   ► Or Tiff, if you're listening, please come in and tell us.

01:05:33 ◼   ► I would get, 'cause the problem,

01:05:36 ◼   ► and this is a problem that especially a lot of women

01:05:38 ◼   ► are gonna have, if you've been keeping your phone

01:05:40 ◼   ► in your pocket, because women's clothing usually,

01:05:43 ◼   ► if it has pockets at all, which is not always given,

01:05:46 ◼   ► if it has pockets at all, usually they're smaller.

01:05:48 ◼   ► So Tiff always keeps the pockets,

01:05:50 ◼   ► Tiff always keeps her phone in her jeans.

01:05:52 ◼   ► And the front pocket is almost never big enough.

01:05:54 ◼   ► So usually just keeps it in the back pocket.

01:05:57 ◼   ► And it's like, we'll have to have her tell you all

01:06:00 ◼   ► about this, but basically it really is not a good fit.

01:06:05 ◼   ► The 5.5 doesn't even come close to fitting.

01:06:07 ◼   ► And even the 4.7 no longer fits.

01:06:10 ◼   ► Like it either, it will either stick out visibly at the top

01:06:14 ◼   ► or like it, or you gotta like put it in like only one pocket

01:06:18 ◼   ► in such a way that it makes a giant long rectangle

01:06:21 ◼   ► put longways, it's weird.

01:06:23 ◼   ► So I have a feeling this is gonna be an issue,

01:06:27 ◼   ► especially for women.

01:06:28 ◼   ► I think we're gonna have to see how the market shakes out.

01:06:32 ◼   ► We're gonna have to see how these sell,

01:06:34 ◼   ► and Apple's gonna have to see.

01:06:35 ◼   ► I'm sure they're gonna be looking at their stores

01:06:37 ◼   ► to see how many people who would have otherwise bought

01:06:41 ◼   ► the bigger one go with the iPhone 5S instead

01:06:44 ◼   ► because it's smaller.

01:06:46 ◼   ► You know I hope they're watching that I'm sure they will because I'm guessing there's gonna be a lot of people who actually prefer the smaller size

01:06:54 ◼   ► especially women

01:06:56 ◼   ► You mean you mean like the smaller is in the 5s size or the 4 point mmm

01:07:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I think they're gonna sell a ton of the 4.7 inch sixes

01:07:04 ◼   ► Like that will be the best-selling model kind of like last gen the the 5s was the best-selling modern way over the 5c

01:07:11 ◼   ► And people seem surprised by that my prediction for for this set of models is that the?

01:07:16 ◼   ► the 4.7 and 6 will be the best selling model.

01:07:20 ◼   ► - Really quickly, a couple more thoughts on the iPhone Plus.

01:07:23 ◼   ► Firstly, do you remember the title

01:07:25 ◼   ► of the very, very, very first episode of ATP?

01:07:28 ◼   ► - Did we call it iPhone Plus?

01:07:29 ◼   ► - We sure did.

01:07:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was the iPhone math, remember?

01:07:32 ◼   ► - That's right. (laughs)

01:07:34 ◼   ► - And what we said, there was a likely mistranslation

01:07:36 ◼   ► of iPhone Plus.

01:07:37 ◼   ► Even the name leaked on this thing.

01:07:38 ◼   ► I can't keep secrets anymore.

01:07:40 ◼   ► (both laughing)

01:07:42 ◼   ► - That was like two years ago.

01:07:43 ◼   ► - I am pretty proud of us for that.

01:07:45 ◼   ► This was February 7th of 2013.

01:07:48 ◼   ► - But it's not the iPhone Plus, it's the iPhone 6 Plus.

01:07:50 ◼   ► It's a bit technical.

01:07:51 ◼   ► - Oh, whatever. - We didn't quite get it.

01:07:53 ◼   ► Anyway. - Anyway.

01:07:54 ◼   ► - Names are names.

01:07:56 ◼   ► - And then what do you guys think about,

01:07:58 ◼   ► and I'm gonna start with Marco,

01:07:59 ◼   ► when you go to landscape on the iPhone 6 Plus,

01:08:04 ◼   ► you get a split view controller

01:08:06 ◼   ► if the app that you're using supports that.

01:08:09 ◼   ► How does that make you feel to have an iPad

01:08:12 ◼   ► that isn't an iPad?

01:08:14 ◼   ► - I think it's smart.

01:08:15 ◼   ► I mean, the iPhone, first of all,

01:08:18 ◼   ► designing an app for iPhone landscape views

01:08:21 ◼   ► has always been challenging,

01:08:22 ◼   ► especially if you have to support text input,

01:08:24 ◼   ► because the iPhone landscape view with the keyboard up,

01:08:27 ◼   ► you basically have no space.

01:08:28 ◼   ► And so, it's always been tricky to design that.

01:08:33 ◼   ► The iPhone 6 Plus has so much space in both dimensions,

01:08:37 ◼   ► but especially in that height dimension,

01:08:39 ◼   ► it has so much space that if you saw

01:08:42 ◼   ► any other normal interface scaled to that

01:08:45 ◼   ► without the split view style.

01:08:47 ◼   ► It's gonna look ridiculously weirdly wide and short.

01:08:50 ◼   ► And so I think what that's doing is just like,

01:08:54 ◼   ► it isn't necessarily like,

01:08:55 ◼   ► oh, we're gonna bring the iPad to this.

01:08:57 ◼   ► I think it's more like we have to solve

01:08:59 ◼   ► this really weird interface situation here.

01:09:02 ◼   ► What tools do we have that we can do that with?

01:09:04 ◼   ► And so that's what I think they're doing there with that.

01:09:07 ◼   ► First of all, it is a differentiator.

01:09:11 ◼   ► it is a way to get people to buy the bigger one,

01:09:12 ◼   ► to say like, look, the apps are a little bit better

01:09:14 ◼   ► in these ways, you know, so that helps.

01:09:17 ◼   ► But I think ultimately it's just about like,

01:09:18 ◼   ► how do we make apps not look weird on this?

01:09:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, all those APIs in WWDC talking about

01:09:24 ◼   ► the adaptive sizing stream, we all knew,

01:09:25 ◼   ► I mean again, talk about Apple leaked this itself

01:09:28 ◼   ► essentially, like we all knew it was coming,

01:09:29 ◼   ► they told us in a million sessions that we're gonna be,

01:09:32 ◼   ► you know, they had, if you just watch those,

01:09:34 ◼   ► if they're free to watch, watch those WWDC sessions,

01:09:37 ◼   ► it's obvious what they're talking about,

01:09:38 ◼   ► and no one was surprised that,

01:09:41 ◼   ► "Oh, hey, look, when you rotated a different thing,

01:09:43 ◼   ► it's suddenly this panel."

01:09:44 ◼   ► Like, they told you how to do that.

01:09:46 ◼   ► And he was like, "This seems strange.

01:09:48 ◼   ► When would this come in handy?"

01:09:49 ◼   ► Hmm, you know, it was,

01:09:50 ◼   ► they were in an awkward situation

01:09:52 ◼   ► where they had to tell developers

01:09:53 ◼   ► how to adjust their layouts

01:09:55 ◼   ► or what we knew were going to be differently sized phones.

01:09:57 ◼   ► And one of the features was, you know,

01:09:59 ◼   ► some elements might not even appear

01:10:00 ◼   ► if the width is compact

01:10:02 ◼   ► or whatever the size class thing is, right?

01:10:03 ◼   ► So, timing-wise, it must've been weird for them to do that,

01:10:07 ◼   ► But every developer knew it was coming.

01:10:09 ◼   ► And I think users don't care about that stuff

01:10:14 ◼   ► as much as we think they do in terms of what it requires.

01:10:16 ◼   ► So maybe it was like, oh, if you get the big phone,

01:10:19 ◼   ► you get this better stuff.

01:10:19 ◼   ► And they don't even know if it's the same app,

01:10:21 ◼   ► as far as they're concerned.

01:10:22 ◼   ► Or they might think, like Casey just kind of said,

01:10:23 ◼   ► like, oh, this is an iPad.

01:10:25 ◼   ► No, it's not an iPad app.

01:10:26 ◼   ► They don't need to know anything about adaptive layouts.

01:10:28 ◼   ► They don't need to know anything about size classes.

01:10:29 ◼   ► They just know you buy this product,

01:10:31 ◼   ► your experience is different.

01:10:32 ◼   ► Especially with the wide keyboard,

01:10:34 ◼   ► with the weird larger keys on the side for doing doodles

01:10:37 ◼   ► and the larger emoji key

01:10:39 ◼   ► and whatever other things they had there.

01:10:42 ◼   ► The fact that those buttons are there

01:10:43 ◼   ► is gonna be a selling point.

01:10:44 ◼   ► Like, oh, well this one has the keyboard

01:10:45 ◼   ► with the little buttons.

01:10:47 ◼   ► I don't know, I feel like the people

01:10:48 ◼   ► who want this big phone already know they want it

01:10:50 ◼   ► and this is all just gonna be icing for them.

01:10:52 ◼   ► And Apple is wise to continue to evolve its UI toolkit,

01:10:57 ◼   ► for lack of a better word,

01:10:59 ◼   ► to handle differently sized screens.

01:11:01 ◼   ► They crept on it bit by bit

01:11:03 ◼   ► and now they're essentially entering a world where we can make flat rectangular screens

01:11:07 ◼   ► with rounded corners of any size and your app should run on them.

01:11:11 ◼   ► The only thing left is the weird gap between iPad and iPhone apps.

01:11:17 ◼   ► And I wonder if eventually they'll get to the point, because if you look at their products

01:11:20 ◼   ► now if you line them up, it's a series of little rectangles with screens on them that

01:11:23 ◼   ► scale nicely from really small to really big.

01:11:26 ◼   ► It's a pretty smooth stair step.

01:11:27 ◼   ► And yet you have to draw this red line.

01:11:29 ◼   ► well, this is an iPad app, and these are iPhone apps.

01:11:32 ◼   ► And that red line will start to get thinner

01:11:34 ◼   ► over the next few years, because eventually it'll be like, look,

01:11:37 ◼   ► you're just making iOS apps, and they adapt themselves

01:11:40 ◼   ► to whatever size screen they're on,

01:11:42 ◼   ► and there's no artificial distinction between an iPad

01:11:44 ◼   ► and an iPhone app anymore.

01:11:45 ◼   ► We're not there yet, but check back in three years.

01:11:49 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think the message to W3C

01:11:52 ◼   ► couldn't have been more clear on that front, too.

01:11:55 ◼   ► Your apps should stop caring about whether they're

01:11:58 ◼   ► running on an iPad or an iPhone.

01:12:00 ◼   ► And you should instead just read these collections

01:12:03 ◼   ► of traits to know, oh, well, this is a small, horizontal,

01:12:07 ◼   ► but big vertical screen, or something like that.

01:12:09 ◼   ► And to basically bring responsive design to apps.

01:12:14 ◼   ► And Apple has been absolutely clear,

01:12:18 ◼   ► that is the way to go now and in the future.

01:12:21 ◼   ► And the implication, of course, is

01:12:23 ◼   ► because we're going to have this big variety of hardware.

01:12:25 ◼   ► And now we've seen the beginning half of that.

01:12:28 ◼   ► I think we're going to continue to see that when

01:12:30 ◼   ► the new iPads are announced.

01:12:31 ◼   ► And if that resizable app thing becomes a part of the iPad OS,

01:12:37 ◼   ► it'll use the same kind of system.

01:12:38 ◼   ► And that's just as important then.

01:12:39 ◼   ► Yeah, the multitasking thing where you split the screen

01:12:42 ◼   ► and have one thing on one side.

01:12:43 ◼   ► Yeah, if that ever ships, it's going

01:12:45 ◼   ► to be an even bigger draw for this sort of thing.

01:12:47 ◼   ► And I think for developers, the message

01:12:50 ◼   ► could not be more clear.

01:12:51 ◼   ► Build universal apps and use this kind of responsive design.

01:12:55 ◼   ► they couldn't be more clear about that.

01:12:57 ◼   ► And if your business model depends on having separate

01:12:59 ◼   ► iPhone and iPad apps, you should probably figure out

01:13:01 ◼   ► a way around that really soon.

01:13:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, even now, just the iPhone 6 Plus

01:13:08 ◼   ► next to an iPad mini, try explaining to a regular person

01:13:10 ◼   ► that, well, this is an iPad app and it only works

01:13:13 ◼   ► on this rectangle, and it won't work at all

01:13:14 ◼   ► in that rectangle.

01:13:15 ◼   ► It'd be like, what?

01:13:16 ◼   ► These are practically the same thing.

01:13:18 ◼   ► It's like, oh, no, that's an iPad and this is an iPhone.

01:13:19 ◼   ► They'd be like, because it makes phone calls,

01:13:22 ◼   ► it can't run, I don't understand.

01:13:24 ◼   ► Yeah, that's you know, the direction is clear that that confusion will be cleared up

01:13:28 ◼   ► Maybe clean clear up sooner than we think for all we know the new ipads come out and apple says oh and by the way

01:13:33 ◼   ► Uh, you can't ever upload an ipad only app anymore. All your apps have to be that I think it's still a ways off

01:13:39 ◼   ► But like apple could do that if they were in a hurry. I don't think they're in a hurry, but

01:13:42 ◼   ► It's at this point

01:13:44 ◼   ► It's silly with that with the iphone 6 plus and the ipad mini both in apple's line

01:13:47 ◼   ► The division between them makes no sense. Yeah

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01:16:02 ◼   ► - So there's a way to pay for things with your phone.

01:16:10 ◼   ► Yeah, this is gonna be really interesting, I think.

01:16:13 ◼   ► Like this is, so, you know, first of all,

01:16:17 ◼   ► yes, we all know that NFC is not new,

01:16:20 ◼   ► that Apple is not the first one to do this.

01:16:22 ◼   ► They won't be the last ones to do this.

01:16:24 ◼   ► We know Android was there first.

01:16:26 ◼   ► We know probably things were there before, Android even.

01:16:28 ◼   ► We know NFC is very popular in some parts of the world.

01:16:31 ◼   ► We know the US payment system is horrible and outdated.

01:16:34 ◼   ► And yes, we still even use checks sometimes,

01:16:37 ◼   ► which is horrendous.

01:16:38 ◼   ► So all that aside, I think this is a great move.

01:16:43 ◼   ► I hope it gets a lot of adoption.

01:16:46 ◼   ► And I think if it does, I think this might actually

01:16:50 ◼   ► be more important than the watch long term for Apple.

01:16:53 ◼   ► I think they're gonna end up making some money from it,

01:16:57 ◼   ► no question, you know, because they're getting a surcharge

01:17:00 ◼   ► off of each transaction.

01:17:01 ◼   ► But it's not very much money based on most of the reports

01:17:03 ◼   ► we've seen, it's a very, very small surcharge.

01:17:06 ◼   ► they make it up in volume, or want to anyway.

01:17:08 ◼   ► - And they, yeah, and there will be,

01:17:10 ◼   ► if this actually works, there will be a lot of volumes.

01:17:13 ◼   ► - Well, so that's the question,

01:17:14 ◼   ► what makes anyone think this has any more chance of working

01:17:17 ◼   ► and becoming widespread than any of the past efforts,

01:17:19 ◼   ► or Passbook for that matter?

01:17:21 ◼   ► - Well, I think the biggest reason,

01:17:24 ◼   ► first of all, you know, Passbook was a tough sell,

01:17:26 ◼   ► because Passbook didn't really offer

01:17:29 ◼   ► either side massive benefits.

01:17:31 ◼   ► It's like, it wasn't that easier, that much easier,

01:17:35 ◼   ► It didn't, like it was a pain to implement slightly,

01:17:39 ◼   ► 'cause you had to do something instead of nothing.

01:17:41 ◼   ► So you had to do special support to implement it

01:17:43 ◼   ► on the service side.

01:17:45 ◼   ► And then on the usual side, there's this weird app

01:17:47 ◼   ► that they go in and it kinda, you gotta find the link

01:17:51 ◼   ► somewhere in your confirmation email that says

01:17:52 ◼   ► download to Passbook if they even had that,

01:17:54 ◼   ► which they usually didn't.

01:17:55 ◼   ► And I feel like the benefits there were not big enough

01:17:59 ◼   ► for all the work on both sides to be worth it

01:18:02 ◼   ► for most people.

01:18:03 ◼   ► Whereas for this, I feel like if this actually works

01:18:07 ◼   ► the way it's advertised, and granted,

01:18:09 ◼   ► the video was hilarious in how,

01:18:11 ◼   ► like the doing it wrong side of the video, how that was--

01:18:14 ◼   ► - So bad, so bad. - It was comical.

01:18:17 ◼   ► - No, it was not comical, it was embarrassing how bad it was.

01:18:21 ◼   ► - I like when they ask for, she asks for ID

01:18:23 ◼   ► and the swipe doesn't work on the first time,

01:18:24 ◼   ► two things that almost never happen.

01:18:26 ◼   ► - It was so uncomfortable.

01:18:29 ◼   ► - That was an example of Apple,

01:18:30 ◼   ► Like what you want is it Apple to be fair?

01:18:33 ◼   ► Like when Steve Jobs put up the picture

01:18:35 ◼   ► of what phones look like with all the different keyboards,

01:18:37 ◼   ► that was fair.

01:18:38 ◼   ► Those were good publicity shots

01:18:40 ◼   ► of those actual popular phones.

01:18:41 ◼   ► It was not finding the ugliest phones in the world

01:18:43 ◼   ► and putting them up to show how nice yours looks next to it.

01:18:45 ◼   ► It was like, these are the popular phones now.

01:18:48 ◼   ► And then we're gonna show you the iPhone

01:18:49 ◼   ► and it's different than them.

01:18:50 ◼   ► This was not a fair comparison.

01:18:52 ◼   ► This was like, this does not accurately represent

01:18:55 ◼   ► the inconvenience of using your credit card in America.

01:18:58 ◼   ► - Right, and that's the thing

01:19:00 ◼   ► is that this is one of those parts of the keynote

01:19:03 ◼   ► where I was just sitting there

01:19:04 ◼   ► and I wanted to crawl into a hole

01:19:06 ◼   ► because it was so ridiculous.

01:19:08 ◼   ► I was like kind of embarrassed just watching it.

01:19:11 ◼   ► And I'm probably being a bit dramatic,

01:19:13 ◼   ► but the thing of it is is that Apple keynotes or events,

01:19:16 ◼   ► whatever we're calling this,

01:19:17 ◼   ► are usually so spot on and so good.

01:19:21 ◼   ► And this was just awkward.

01:19:25 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:19:25 ◼   ► Most of it was great,

01:19:26 ◼   ► but this part was just really awkward.

01:19:28 ◼   ► So for the success rate of this thing over Passbook,

01:19:31 ◼   ► I ask that mostly just to throw that out there.

01:19:34 ◼   ► I think this will be more successful than Passbook.

01:19:37 ◼   ► And I think the main reason is,

01:19:39 ◼   ► this is all again, totally US centric.

01:19:41 ◼   ► And like Marco said, we all know about chip cards.

01:19:43 ◼   ► We all know how backwards we are.

01:19:44 ◼   ► Yes, yes, yes, we live in America.

01:19:46 ◼   ► We care about our backwardness getting fixed,

01:19:48 ◼   ► not how awesome it is in your amazing country.

01:19:50 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:19:51 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:19:53 ◼   ► So if we don't speak your language,

01:19:54 ◼   ► we'd move there if we did.

01:19:55 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:19:56 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:19:57 ◼   ► The reason this is gonna work is because of the massive concentration of power in the

01:20:06 ◼   ► US payment industry to these few big banks and few big credit card companies, most of

01:20:11 ◼   ► which Apple seems to have cut a deal with.

01:20:13 ◼   ► So right there, you've got just huge...

01:20:15 ◼   ► It's kind of like when Apple did a deal for iTunes, they just got whatever is the big

01:20:18 ◼   ► five record labels or whatever they were.

01:20:20 ◼   ► That's all they needed to do deals with because they covered most of the music people cared

01:20:25 ◼   ► about.

01:20:26 ◼   ► Apple is doing deals with MasterCard, Visa,

01:20:29 ◼   ► Bank of America.

01:20:30 ◼   ► They're just covering a huge portion of the entire market

01:20:33 ◼   ► just by doing deals with these gigantic companies that

01:20:36 ◼   ► have what probably should be illegal levels of power

01:20:40 ◼   ► and concentration of wealth.

01:20:42 ◼   ► And anyway, that makes it--

01:20:43 ◼   ► On the retail side, too, there's a similar--

01:20:46 ◼   ► the US is so much based on the big chain stores

01:20:50 ◼   ► that all you need are a handful of the big chains

01:20:52 ◼   ► to have a massive footprint of the transactions that

01:20:55 ◼   ► happen in the US every day, and then you can start getting

01:20:58 ◼   ► more support from the smaller people just because,

01:21:00 ◼   ► well, we have all these people using this,

01:21:02 ◼   ► you'll benefit from this, blah, blah, blah, you know?

01:21:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that's what they need to make it work,

01:21:05 ◼   ► is you need to like, it's not the thing in the phone,

01:21:08 ◼   ► it's not the software, it's not NFC,

01:21:10 ◼   ► what it is is that stupid ugly reader thing.

01:21:12 ◼   ► That is the most important part of this product

01:21:14 ◼   ► as a solution for people, is that stupid ugly reader thing.

01:21:17 ◼   ► That stupid little NFC reader and the way it's hooked up,

01:21:21 ◼   ► and that has to be in millions and millions of places.

01:21:25 ◼   ► That is the hard part of this project.

01:21:27 ◼   ► Like you said, people putting NFC in phones forever.

01:21:29 ◼   ► Like it's so easy to do all those other parts.

01:21:31 ◼   ► The hard part is to cut the deal with all the people.

01:21:33 ◼   ► So they say, use our payment thingy,

01:21:35 ◼   ► accept our payment tokens,

01:21:38 ◼   ► put these things in all of your stores.

01:21:41 ◼   ► That is the hard part.

01:21:42 ◼   ► That's the biggest, kind of like the Amazon level

01:21:45 ◼   ► type of thing where they're like,

01:21:46 ◼   ► or even Google, like we're gonna scan every book

01:21:48 ◼   ► in the world, and we're gonna make self-driving cars

01:21:49 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:21:50 ◼   ► This is one of the first things that I've seen

01:21:51 ◼   ► Apple sort of dip its toe into of saying,

01:21:54 ◼   ► we're going to try to do this big thing.

01:21:56 ◼   ► 'Cause it doesn't work unless those little scanners

01:21:58 ◼   ► are all over the place hooked up to Apple service.

01:22:00 ◼   ► And so them cutting the deal

01:22:02 ◼   ► with the big credit card companies

01:22:03 ◼   ► so that you'll be able to make something

01:22:05 ◼   ► that you can pay with and it will connect

01:22:07 ◼   ► to your bank or your credit card or whatever.

01:22:08 ◼   ► That's one half.

01:22:09 ◼   ► But then the other half is getting these little scanners

01:22:12 ◼   ► in a bunch of stores hooked up to those things.

01:22:15 ◼   ► And I think the amount of stuff

01:22:16 ◼   ► that they've announced in this deal

01:22:20 ◼   ► is probably just barely enough.

01:22:22 ◼   ► maybe, maybe barely enough to get them over the hump.

01:22:25 ◼   ► 'Cause you need some kind of critical mass

01:22:26 ◼   ► if this doesn't want to become like Passbook.

01:22:28 ◼   ► Even though Passbook's like,

01:22:29 ◼   ► "Oh, didn't they get all the airlines?"

01:22:30 ◼   ► People don't fly every day,

01:22:32 ◼   ► and even if they do, the airlines were kind of spotty

01:22:34 ◼   ► in the beginning about whether that was there,

01:22:36 ◼   ► and people weren't, you know, like,

01:22:37 ◼   ► is this really, you really need to get some critical mass

01:22:40 ◼   ► before, until this, you know,

01:22:42 ◼   ► for this to become something that is more than just

01:22:45 ◼   ► a curiosity that a bunch of rich people do in San Francisco

01:22:48 ◼   ► when they go to Whole Foods, you know?

01:22:50 ◼   ► - Right, well, and the timing of this is actually

01:22:52 ◼   ► amazingly good because the US,

01:22:56 ◼   ► there's finally now a big movement to move to chip and pin

01:22:59 ◼   ► ever since what I believe was started out

01:23:01 ◼   ► as the target credit card hack thing.

01:23:03 ◼   ► I apologize to whoever was talking about this

01:23:08 ◼   ► and I overheard it on a podcast and I forgot who it was,

01:23:10 ◼   ► but basically in the last couple years

01:23:12 ◼   ► there have been so many massive scale credit card hacks

01:23:15 ◼   ► in the US, especially the big target one,

01:23:17 ◼   ► that it's finally getting so expensive

01:23:20 ◼   ► for the credit card processors to deal with

01:23:22 ◼   ► all the resulting fraud and everything,

01:23:23 ◼   ► that they're now finally pushing the US

01:23:26 ◼   ► to adopt chip and PIN.

01:23:27 ◼   ► - Well, the fraud rate has been really low

01:23:29 ◼   ► and it has gone up slightly with these hacks.

01:23:32 ◼   ► But all it takes is for the fraud rate to go up slightly

01:23:34 ◼   ► for these business credit card companies

01:23:36 ◼   ► live and die based on their terrible fees

01:23:38 ◼   ► that they charge you, their crazy interest rates,

01:23:42 ◼   ► but also the fraud rates.

01:23:44 ◼   ► And so the fraud rate goes up 1%,

01:23:46 ◼   ► that is enough for them to say,

01:23:47 ◼   ► "All right, finally, we have to get rid of this

01:23:48 ◼   ► "through magnetic stripe stuff."

01:23:49 ◼   ► Like there is a big turnover in that type of like that's the reason they drag their feet like everything we have now is fine

01:23:55 ◼   ► Why would we invest in changing it?

01:23:57 ◼   ► All you need is the fraud rate to take up like a percent or two and suddenly it becomes economically feasible to go to something

01:24:03 ◼   ► better and it's I suppose there's a competition between the

01:24:06 ◼   ► Little chip things they have in the rest of the civilized world and something like this NFC thing

01:24:11 ◼   ► exactly, and and that's why I think like because this shift is finally happening in the US and because you know you what you said earlier

01:24:19 ◼   ► about the concentration of power in the US

01:24:20 ◼   ► being such that the US is a fairly straightforward market

01:24:24 ◼   ► to dominate if you can get a handful of people on board.

01:24:27 ◼   ► That's why I think this has a very good chance of succeeding

01:24:31 ◼   ► because all those credit card terminals all over the place

01:24:34 ◼   ► are gonna have to get upgraded in the next few years anyway.

01:24:36 ◼   ► And so they're probably gonna get upgraded

01:24:38 ◼   ► to something that supports NFC

01:24:39 ◼   ► if NFC is widely out there, which now it will be.

01:24:42 ◼   ► - So do you think it'll be socially awkward to do this,

01:24:46 ◼   ► to be early on in the Apple Pay adoption?

01:24:50 ◼   ► - No, I don't think so at all.

01:24:53 ◼   ► Because I mean, think of,

01:24:54 ◼   ► the convenience just trumps everything.

01:24:56 ◼   ► Like, do you remember when the little kiosks

01:24:59 ◼   ► where you had to swipe your own card first came out?

01:25:01 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, yeah. - Right?

01:25:03 ◼   ► And it was a change and everyone just got used to it

01:25:05 ◼   ► and that was it.

01:25:06 ◼   ► Do you have one of those little dongly things

01:25:07 ◼   ► that you use at the gas station

01:25:08 ◼   ► so you don't have to swipe your card?

01:25:10 ◼   ► - No, no.

01:25:11 ◼   ► - I have one of those.

01:25:12 ◼   ► I've had one of those for what, 10, 15 years?

01:25:14 ◼   ► They're awesome.

01:25:15 ◼   ► you get one, you never go back to the old way.

01:25:18 ◼   ► Like, and this is the equivalent of that.

01:25:19 ◼   ► As soon as people can like rub some part of their purse

01:25:22 ◼   ► or whatever up against the thing and pay for things.

01:25:24 ◼   ► - Oh my goodness.

01:25:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, you're gonna rub your purse against the gas pump?

01:25:27 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

01:25:28 ◼   ► - You know what I mean?

01:25:29 ◼   ► Like the convenience of just like the,

01:25:32 ◼   ► like it is so much easier than the,

01:25:34 ◼   ► and even though the video was ridiculous,

01:25:36 ◼   ► like, oh, it's so hard to get cards out of a wall.

01:25:38 ◼   ► I just really expected eggshells to crack

01:25:39 ◼   ► on top of the person's hair when she was doing that.

01:25:41 ◼   ► Like, like from the infomercials.

01:25:43 ◼   ► Spill the person onto the floor. Yeah, just all things are everywhere anyway as silly as that is this is kind of like the whole

01:25:50 ◼   ► I watch thing we talked about before

01:25:52 ◼   ► Taking away the the need to rummage through your purse to pull out the card to hand it to the person to hand it to

01:25:58 ◼   ► Back they didn't show the part of signing which some places still make you do do the stupid signature on the thing

01:26:02 ◼   ► That's decreased a lot lately without requiring sign, but like that little dance is not that inconvenient

01:26:09 ◼   ► But if you can cut most of it out it is addicting to be able to do that. It is nice

01:26:14 ◼   ► Why would you ever like it's like well, okay, that wasn't a problem. I had no problem doing that, but this is slightly more convenient

01:26:21 ◼   ► What is the reason you would ever go back to the other way and this actually has it as they pointed out many times like

01:26:26 ◼   ► You know this has advantages over the old way and that you don't have to give your credit card number to anybody

01:26:30 ◼   ► They don't have to know anything about you or your name like using the tokens is more secure reveals less information

01:26:36 ◼   ► to Apple anyway, the credit card company still knows what you bought and where and when but you know

01:26:39 ◼   ► It's not Apple's not helping with that, but they're not it is a potentially more secure

01:26:46 ◼   ► Which is why everybody likes it reduce fraud and everything

01:26:48 ◼   ► Service that is more convenient to you and it's not that it's going to be such a life-changing thing

01:26:52 ◼   ► It's just to give you once once that is an option for you

01:26:54 ◼   ► You will never like you will never go to one of the stores that has that option and say you know what I want to

01:27:00 ◼   ► Dig my credit card out of my wallet instead. You just won't what's the point?

01:27:02 ◼   ► There's no upside and so it will just completely switch over to doing it the more convenient way

01:27:06 ◼   ► If they can get these things in enough places, it will hopefully not be a novelty

01:27:10 ◼   ► But more like be like the defaults for the the three stores that you you know

01:27:15 ◼   ► Where I shop for my groceries where I go for my you know

01:27:18 ◼   ► Home supplies or whatever if if the three or four stories you frequent all have this it will just become the way you pay for

01:27:23 ◼   ► things

01:27:24 ◼   ► That I think it's going to be a interesting challenge for them to get in enough locations fast enough for this not to be some weird

01:27:32 ◼   ► again, a curiosity that is only in a few places.

01:27:36 ◼   ► - And also, think about the lock-in effects they have

01:27:39 ◼   ► once this is everywhere.

01:27:41 ◼   ► This is not gonna force everyone to buy iPhones,

01:27:44 ◼   ► but it will make it harder to ever move away from an iPhone.

01:27:46 ◼   ► It's gonna be like one more thing that,

01:27:50 ◼   ► if you have an iPhone and you're thinking about

01:27:51 ◼   ► switching to some new Android hotness or whatever,

01:27:54 ◼   ► you'll have to think about, oh,

01:27:55 ◼   ► then I won't be able to use this in the exact same way.

01:27:57 ◼   ► And even if the other thing supports NFC,

01:27:59 ◼   ► it'd be like, well, it might be different,

01:28:01 ◼   ► might not work as well, you know.

01:28:02 ◼   ► - I wonder what kind of lock-in they're really getting,

01:28:05 ◼   ► 'cause like the hardware is capable of doing anything.

01:28:07 ◼   ► So if Android does some sort of thing

01:28:09 ◼   ► and Google does stuff with payment processor,

01:28:10 ◼   ► like there's no reason that other companies

01:28:12 ◼   ► couldn't strike the same deals.

01:28:13 ◼   ► And presumably if the hardware is there,

01:28:16 ◼   ► it is a business and software decision.

01:28:19 ◼   ► Like once the readers are everywhere,

01:28:21 ◼   ► I don't think Apple has any particular lock-in

01:28:24 ◼   ► to those readers, 'cause those readers could be repurposed

01:28:26 ◼   ► to read payments from Android phones just as easily.

01:28:29 ◼   ► So it's more of a can other companies do the deals

01:28:33 ◼   ► with all of the credit card companies and banks

01:28:36 ◼   ► and retailers in the same way that Apple has done.

01:28:39 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I'm not saying they can't,

01:28:40 ◼   ► but I'm saying like you, not you,

01:28:42 ◼   ► but most people as users might consider that like,