ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► There's no way this is going on the show.

00:00:03 ◼   ► I know.

00:00:04 ◼   ► This is not nearly exciting enough.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Well, it was embarrassing for me, so I thought there was a pretty good shot you'd wanted

00:00:09 ◼   ► in there.

00:00:11 ◼   ► So we have a little bit of follow-up.

00:00:13 ◼   ► The first thing is, and I'm a little disappointed that this has gotten a little bit of publicity

00:00:18 ◼   ► because I was hoping to wow everyone with revealing this on the show, but there is a

00:00:25 ◼   ► listener who wrote far and away my favorite thing I've ever read on the

00:00:28 ◼   ► internet. His name is Joe Steele, if I'm not mistaken, and he wrote a screenplay

00:00:36 ◼   ► review of the Accidental Tech podcast. And as it turns out, I didn't realize

00:00:40 ◼   ► this at the time, as it turns out he's actually done several of these. And he

00:00:45 ◼   ► even has a little Tumblr where he posts them. So he's done one, he did one for the

00:00:48 ◼   ► prompt, which is falsely advertised as greatest podcast in the world. He did one

00:00:54 ◼   ► for Bionic, which I actually thought was quite funny. And he's done it for several others.

00:00:58 ◼   ► The Incomparable, he did one, and I forget what the other ones are. But they're really,

00:01:02 ◼   ► really, really funny, and I absolutely adored ours. I thought it was hysterical.

00:01:07 ◼   ► And so many thanks to Joe Steele for writing that inventive and hilarious review. And if you ever

00:01:15 ◼   ► want to trick us into mentioning your name on the show, that's how you do it, is by writing

00:01:20 ◼   ► an awesome review that's hysterical. **Matt Stauffer**

00:01:22 ◼   ► That's not a trick. That's a legitimate way to do it.

00:01:24 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:01:26 ◼   ► Speaking of Bionic, have you guys heard Bionic since the beginning?

00:01:30 ◼   ► No. I only started listening a handful of episodes back, but don't tell Mike or Matt about that.

00:01:35 ◼   ► So I always assumed it was about comics, so I didn't listen to it. And then when Merlin was

00:01:39 ◼   ► on as a guest host, I listened to that one, and I kept listening after that. And I don't know

00:01:45 ◼   ► what's going on in that show. Neither did I.

00:01:48 ◼   ► However, I couldn't tell you what it's about.

00:01:51 ◼   ► I heard them say that it used to be about ecosystems,

00:01:53 ◼   ► so that's as good of an explanation as any.

00:01:56 ◼   ► But I like it.

00:01:57 ◼   ► It's really weird, but it's funny.

00:02:00 ◼   ► You can tell that you're walking in on what's clearly

00:02:04 ◼   ► a long-running series of inside jokes,

00:02:06 ◼   ► but they manage to make it funny.

00:02:08 ◼   ► Even if you don't know the back story,

00:02:10 ◼   ► you can figure out enough that you can laugh with it.

00:02:14 ◼   ► And then there's occasionally actual tech discussion.

00:02:16 ◼   ► So it's pretty cool.

00:02:17 ◼   ► I actually really like Bionic now.

00:02:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree.

00:02:20 ◼   ► I also didn't listen to it because I thought

00:02:24 ◼   ► I was way too late in the inside joke category,

00:02:27 ◼   ► which is to some degree one of the excuses I use

00:02:30 ◼   ► for you look nice today and you don't have to lecture me.

00:02:32 ◼   ► I know I need to listen to it.

00:02:33 ◼   ► It's on the list.

00:02:34 ◼   ► But yeah, so I never jumped into Bionic until,

00:02:37 ◼   ► I don't know, maybe five-ish episodes ago, like I said.

00:02:39 ◼   ► And it's actually quite entertaining.

00:02:41 ◼   ► I'm not sure I understand what's going on ever,

00:02:45 ◼   ► but I still enjoy it nevertheless.

00:02:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I can pretty much say the same thing.

00:02:51 ◼   ► Well, that's good.

00:02:52 ◼   ► We also had some follow-up on the retina display.

00:02:56 ◼   ► We talked at the end of last episode

00:02:58 ◼   ► about possibilities for what Apple could release

00:03:00 ◼   ► or what anybody could release for that matter.

00:03:03 ◼   ► In regards to a retina desktop display,

00:03:06 ◼   ► we looked at the new Dell ones that are coming out.

00:03:09 ◼   ► And John brought up in his Mavericks review or somewhere

00:03:12 ◼   ► that, right, John?

00:03:13 ◼   ► When did you bring up the wallpaper size?

00:03:15 ◼   ► Was it the Mavericks review?

00:03:16 ◼   ► Yeah, it was the Mavericks review.

00:03:17 ◼   ► So you brought up there about how the wallpaper that comes with the system is available in

00:03:23 ◼   ► exactly 5120 by 2880, which is exactly double each dimension of the current 27 inch cinema

00:03:31 ◼   ► display.

00:03:32 ◼   ► And that would be awesome to have that as a retina screen.

00:03:36 ◼   ► We haven't seen any monitors come out with that resolution, though.

00:03:38 ◼   ► The highest we've seen is 4K 3840 by 2160.

00:03:44 ◼   ► And we had talked at the end of last episode, what if Apple releases that resolution, 3840

00:03:49 ◼   ► wide, as the Retina display rather than like the full Retina 27 inch which would be 5120

00:03:55 ◼   ► wide.

00:03:56 ◼   ► And we got a number of people pointing out that actually the current versions of even

00:04:01 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 2 and DisplayPort 1.2, the two current ways to connect a monitor to a video

00:04:07 ◼   ► card. Those don't support enough bandwidth to run 5120 wide at 60 frames a second. They

00:04:14 ◼   ► just can't do it. That takes roughly 28 gigabits per second, and they both top out at about

00:04:20 ◼   ► 20. And so we're actually pretty far from that. DisplayPort 1.3 is the next upcoming

00:04:25 ◼   ► version of DisplayPort. That will support up to 8K resolution at 60 hertz, because it

00:04:30 ◼   ► raises the bandwidth. But that's not available yet.

00:04:32 ◼   ► Where are you getting the DisplayPort 1.2 bandwidth from?

00:04:36 ◼   ► I looked up at Wikipedia and it said like 17 something and you have it here as 21 in

00:04:40 ◼   ► the notes file.

00:04:42 ◼   ► It was unclear to me exactly what it was but it says in this little sidebar that you can

00:04:47 ◼   ► have up to four channels at whatever that divided by four is so I guess multiply that

00:04:51 ◼   ► and say that's probably the theoretical max but either way it's neither Thunderbolt 2

00:04:56 ◼   ► nor DisplayPort 1.2 which is the current best version of both of those things.

00:05:00 ◼   ► of those can drive a display of the size that you want. And for the

00:05:05 ◼   ► 5120 by 2880, how many bits per pixel is that, assuming? That was at 32, however it

00:05:11 ◼   ► also doesn't work at 24. Why would it be 32 bits per pixel? I don't know, that's

00:05:16 ◼   ► how everyone else was calculating it, so I did that, but even at 24 bits per

00:05:19 ◼   ► pixel it's still too much. At 24 bits per pixel it's like 21 or

00:05:22 ◼   ► something gigabits, which is still over the 17-ish that 1.2 puts out, but yeah,

00:05:27 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, have to wait a little bit longer. It's sad.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Either way, you can't do it.

00:05:33 ◼   ► Like there's possibilities that you can have resolutions in between there, but who the

00:05:35 ◼   ► hell knows? Like it always bothers me that 4K isn't really 4,000 of anything, but I think

00:05:40 ◼   ► 4K is kind of an umbrella term. It doesn't apply to any specific resolution. It's one

00:05:44 ◼   ► of those BS things.

00:05:45 ◼   ► Right. There's like four or five different ones that all are kind of considered 4K.

00:05:49 ◼   ► Yeah. The link I threw in there was the many stories about the Sharp 4K display appearing

00:05:54 ◼   ► in some European Apple store briefly before disappearing.

00:05:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't really think that indicates anything useful.

00:06:01 ◼   ► People obviously send that to all of us a lot when it came out and the news hit a few

00:06:04 ◼   ► days ago.

00:06:06 ◼   ► And I mean Apple has sold third-party monitors and stuff before in their store.

00:06:11 ◼   ► So I don't think it indicates anything whether Apple released their own or not.

00:06:15 ◼   ► I really don't think it says anything.

00:06:17 ◼   ► But it was another 3840, 2160.

00:06:19 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:06:20 ◼   ► So I really think that's what we're going to be sticking with for the next few years.

00:06:24 ◼   ► I think that's going to be the highest resolution you can get, because nothing can drive anything better than that.

00:06:28 ◼   ► And I'm guessing...

00:06:29 ◼   ► You still think Apple will make one of these, though?

00:06:32 ◼   ► I think they will. I'm not necessarily sure when they'll make it.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Maybe we'll see on the iMac first, and then at the end of next year.

00:06:41 ◼   ► Well, Dell's making one now.

00:06:43 ◼   ► The fact that they put the Mac Pro up there and said, "And it can drive three 4K displays."

00:06:47 ◼   ► Are they really expecting us to buy those 4K displays from someone other than them,

00:06:51 ◼   ► because the margins are too low on these displays and they don't care because it's just...

00:06:56 ◼   ► maybe pros would never use the Apple displays anyway because they have their specialty.

00:07:00 ◼   ► I don't quite understand that.

00:07:02 ◼   ► It's kind of like when Apple discontinued the X-Star Raid and said, "Oh, just buy these

00:07:05 ◼   ► other ugly, purple, weird, plastic-y raid things instead."

00:07:09 ◼   ► That was not a very Apple-like thing to do.

00:07:10 ◼   ► It was very strange seeing them do that.

00:07:12 ◼   ► Do you remember that time?

00:07:13 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:07:14 ◼   ► I mean, I really think what we're in for here is Dell's going to release theirs if it isn't

00:07:20 ◼   ► it's not already out I don't think but I think it's coming soon like very soon

00:07:24 ◼   ► so Dell's gonna release theirs I think they said it was what 1500 bucks 1400

00:07:28 ◼   ► bucks something like that for the for the 24 inch one I think that's going to

00:07:32 ◼   ► be the new hotness for nerds like us assuming that it can be driven by the

00:07:37 ◼   ► new Mac Pro and new retina MacBook Pros at that resolution and be treated as 2x

00:07:41 ◼   ► I think people gonna buy that a lot of Apple doesn't make their own and I if

00:07:47 ◼   ► If Apple releases a 27 inch version of that, and the Dell one works fine at 24 inches,

00:07:53 ◼   ► I really might go with the Dell one. I don't know. I mean, I've had Dell displays before,

00:07:57 ◼   ► they've been fine. They've been, you know, like, like, they've always, like, the plastic around

00:08:00 ◼   ► them is crap, the stand is crap, the buttons always flake and fall off or spin around and

00:08:06 ◼   ► stop working. I mean, they're built like crap, but the panels are always really good. Like,

00:08:10 ◼   ► it's always really good image quality for a really good price, and usually with tons of inputs and

00:08:15 ◼   ► card readers and USB hubs and all that other stuff. So I've been, I've had perfectly fine

00:08:20 ◼   ► experiences with Dell displays. I've actually never had an Apple display. I've always used

00:08:23 ◼   ► third-party displays. So I would be fine with that. But if Apple makes one at the right

00:08:29 ◼   ► side, like if Apple makes a 24, which I don't honestly think they would, if they made a

00:08:34 ◼   ► 24, I'd buy that, no question. But if the Dell one and the Apple one will end up working

00:08:37 ◼   ► the same, like if I can use the Dell one at retina, like being treated as a retina monitor

00:08:43 ◼   ► by the computer, with no really horrible flaky hacks that fail constantly, I don't see a

00:08:49 ◼   ► lot of reason not to do that.

00:08:51 ◼   ► High DPI mode is not that much of a flaky hack.

00:08:54 ◼   ► The fact that you have to use a dev tool to enable it is not that big a deal.

00:08:58 ◼   ► As far as I can tell, it's the same code path everywhere as if you had a retina display

00:09:02 ◼   ► hooked up.

00:09:03 ◼   ► All the software running is outputting at double resolution, just like it would be if

00:09:07 ◼   ► it was displayed at that resolution.

00:09:09 ◼   ► I don't think there's any additional weirdness about it, except for maybe on like the login

00:09:14 ◼   ► screens, because I do a lot on my OS X testing, especially for Mavericks, since all the screenshots

00:09:18 ◼   ► for Retina and I don't have a Retina Mac, had to be done in this mode.

00:09:22 ◼   ► And once you put it in this mode, even the login screen will be in this mode too.

00:09:26 ◼   ► And it's kind of weird then when you go to the login screen and you log into someone's

00:09:28 ◼   ► account who doesn't have that setting set, or log out of one, and back in...

00:09:32 ◼   ► It's a little bit weird there, but if you just kept it in that mode the whole time,

00:09:36 ◼   ► I think it would be okay.

00:09:38 ◼   ► And you would imagine that a point update of OS X would recognize a Dell or some other

00:09:45 ◼   ► 4K-ish display and treat it like a retina screen.

00:09:50 ◼   ► You wouldn't have to do that hack.

00:09:51 ◼   ► Why would Apple make you do that?

00:09:52 ◼   ► It's not a big deal for them to just show those supported resolutions.

00:09:57 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:09:58 ◼   ► I bet they would make you do that hack, honestly.

00:10:01 ◼   ► But I mentioned iFriendly last week, the utility to swap the resolutions on the MacBook Pro.

00:10:07 ◼   ► I bet all those utilities and default to write tricks,

00:10:12 ◼   ► and all those system preference tricks

00:10:15 ◼   ► that let you enable modes that Apple doesn't officially think

00:10:19 ◼   ► that your monitor can support,

00:10:20 ◼   ► I bet those same tricks will work to do this.

00:10:23 ◼   ► - But if Apple doesn't have their own displays,

00:10:25 ◼   ► if their solution is like it was for the XServe raid,

00:10:27 ◼   ► oh, just buy this third-party monitor.

00:10:28 ◼   ► They can't tell you to buy the third-party monitor,

00:10:31 ◼   ► then also expect you to Google for

00:10:33 ◼   ► how to get the graphics tools out of the Xcode password

00:10:36 ◼   ► package and run the quartz debug thing and flip the little option. Like, if they're

00:10:40 ◼   ► going to go third party, it's got to support the third party. If they have their own first

00:10:44 ◼   ► party one, then maybe you'll have to enable this mode manually.

00:10:48 ◼   ► Until the Mac Pro actually comes out and Apple doesn't have this monitor available, I'm still

00:10:53 ◼   ► going to keep believing there's hope for it.

00:10:55 ◼   ► Oh, you're setting yourself up here.

00:10:58 ◼   ► But again, now that this Dell one is out, which, and I'm pretty sure Apple... So now

00:11:04 ◼   ► we have this info about bandwidth limits. I'm positive that Apple will not release one

00:11:09 ◼   ► that is the full 5120 wide. I'm also not positive, but I'm fairly sure that if they did release

00:11:17 ◼   ► a 4K monitor, it would be probably 27 inches. I don't see them releasing a smaller monitor

00:11:21 ◼   ► than that, because it's not that big of a market for them. So since we can't have the

00:11:28 ◼   ► the Super Retina resolution at 27 inches, what's better? Two 1920s? Two 3840 resolution

00:11:38 ◼   ► ones that are treated as 1920s at 24 inches? That might be better. As we said last show,

00:11:44 ◼   ► but obviously I know, Jon, you are a monitor monogamist.

00:11:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I still think no monitors this year. Mac Pro will come out. There might be some

00:11:51 ◼   ► third-party options, but no monitors. Because I don't understand why they would keep the

00:11:57 ◼   ► monitor so secret for so long and then just say "oh and by the way the Mac Pro is out

00:12:01 ◼   ► and here's these new Apple monitors" but I just see no monitors this year from Apple.

00:12:06 ◼   ► Do you think that we're going to get a Mac Pro before the end of the year? I know they

00:12:08 ◼   ► said December and I know December isn't over but we're running out of time.

00:12:12 ◼   ► If it's ready they'll ship it. Who was, it's almost like we said last show that it doesn't

00:12:16 ◼   ► matter for the holidays because this is not a seasonal item but someone said that it would

00:12:20 ◼   ► matter for like their Q4 sales or something. I don't even think it would matter there because

00:12:23 ◼   ► I think the volumes are so low that it wouldn't make a difference.

00:12:27 ◼   ► I think iPads and iPhones, and especially iPhones,

00:12:30 ◼   ► that matters for their Q4 sales.

00:12:33 ◼   ► I don't think what's probably the lowest selling Mac

00:12:36 ◼   ► is going to make a drop in the bucket.

00:12:38 ◼   ► - One other piece of follow up,

00:12:40 ◼   ► or I believe this is follow up,

00:12:41 ◼   ► and I think, John, that you added to this,

00:12:44 ◼   ► to these show notes,

00:12:45 ◼   ► do you wanna briefly talk about Squarespace?

00:12:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is not actually a sponsor break,

00:12:48 ◼   ► but I mentioned on a couple shows back

00:12:51 ◼   ► a business plan based on implementing Squarespace sites

00:12:54 ◼   ► for people who have terrible websites

00:12:56 ◼   ► and don't realize that they could have a nice website if they'd spend five minutes on Squarespace

00:12:59 ◼   ► and pay a couple bucks.

00:13:01 ◼   ► And so if they don't want to go through that, why not start a business as a facilitator

00:13:05 ◼   ► of that, where you charge somebody presumably a lot more than Squarespace charges, and for

00:13:10 ◼   ► the money, you set up a Squarespace site for somebody, and obviously you design work and

00:13:14 ◼   ► content and everything else.

00:13:15 ◼   ► Well apparently there's a page at Squarespace that somebody sent me that I did not keep

00:13:18 ◼   ► track of.

00:13:19 ◼   ► it's at specialist.squarespace.com that lists a pretty small list of people who do,

00:13:27 ◼   ► people or companies who do exactly this. You engage with them as a business and they use

00:13:32 ◼   ► Squarespace to set up your site. So basically they're like design firms, they don't have to

00:13:36 ◼   ► do any of the programming or any of the annoying other stuff and they will set you up. I bet that

00:13:39 ◼   ► these people will probably also set you up a commerce site or whatever because Squarespace

00:13:43 ◼   ► can do that as well, right? So anyway, Squarespace is out ahead of this apparently. They're

00:13:49 ◼   ► they're already cultivating this group of-- I wondered actually if Squarespace didn't

00:13:52 ◼   ► want you reselling their services or whatever, but apparently they think this is a good thing,

00:13:57 ◼   ► and they've already got a site set up for it, and if you're one of those people who

00:14:00 ◼   ► does this for a living, a couple of people contacted me and said, "Oh, I've set up three

00:14:03 ◼   ► different clients already all using Squarespace." This is a thing that Squarespace does, so check

00:14:09 ◼   ► it out.

00:14:10 ◼   ► And now it is a sponsor break. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, shockingly,

00:14:15 ◼   ► the all-in-one platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website

00:14:18 ◼   ► or online portfolio. For a free trial and 10% off your first purchase, go to squarespace.com

00:14:24 ◼   ► and use offer code ATP12 to help support our show.

00:14:29 ◼   ► Squarespace is constantly improving their platform with new features, new designs, and

00:14:32 ◼   ► even better support. They have beautiful designs for you to start with and all the style options

00:14:37 ◼   ► you need to create a unique website for you or your business. Or apparently this guy's

00:14:41 ◼   ► business or all these people's businesses. Every design automatically includes a unique,

00:14:46 ◼   ► responsive design experience that matches the overall style of your site.

00:14:50 ◼   ► So your content will look great on every device, every time.

00:14:53 ◼   ► Squarespace is incredibly easy to use, but if you want some help, they have an amazing support team.

00:14:58 ◼   ► They work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, right here in New York City.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Over 70 Squarespace employees are on the customer care team here in New York.

00:15:06 ◼   ► Squarespace starts at just $8 a month and includes a free domain name if you sign up for a year in advance.

00:15:12 ◼   ► And the best thing is you can start a free trial with no credit card required.

00:15:17 ◼   ► You know, it's not like one of those crap free trials that a lot of places do where

00:15:20 ◼   ► it's like, "Well, free trial if you enter all your information for billing and we know

00:15:23 ◼   ► you're probably going to forget, and if you actually want to cancel, you got to like talk

00:15:26 ◼   ► to one of those chatbot things and it'll probably fail and probably bill you anyway."

00:15:31 ◼   ► It's not one of those.

00:15:32 ◼   ► With Squarespace, it's a real free trial, no credit card required.

00:15:35 ◼   ► You can just sign up right away and start building your website today.

00:15:39 ◼   ► When you do decide to sign up, make sure you use our offer code ATP12, as I said earlier.

00:15:43 ◼   ► ATP12 will get you 10% off your initial purchase and to support our show.

00:15:49 ◼   ► Squarespace is everything you need to create an exceptional website.

00:15:51 ◼   ► Thank you very much for your support, Squarespace.

00:15:55 ◼   ► So in the spirit of random musings from Geek Friday or IRL Talk, I had a random musing

00:16:01 ◼   ► of my own the other day.

00:16:03 ◼   ► I don't know if there's much to be said here, but I was on my Mac and for whatever reason

00:16:10 ◼   ► I wanted to buy some iOS app and I forget which one it was and it doesn't really matter

00:16:14 ◼   ► But my initial inclination was okay. Well, I'll go to the App Store to buy that app it wait

00:16:19 ◼   ► No, no, I have to go to iTunes to do that and it occurred to me

00:16:24 ◼   ► Why is it that all of the iOS app purchases aren't in the App Store because?

00:16:30 ◼   ► to my subconscious apparently as well to I would as well as to I would imagine most normal people

00:16:36 ◼   ► The App Store is the App Store is the App Store doesn't matter if you're buying Mac or iOS

00:16:41 ◼   ► You're just trying to buy an app and you should do that in the App Store

00:16:45 ◼   ► And I thought it was just a little wonky that that was all happening on iTunes and naturally there's a there's a million

00:16:50 ◼   ► logical and obvious explanations. It's always been in iTunes. It started in iTunes. It would muddy up the Mac App Store etc, etc

00:16:58 ◼   ► et cetera, but I just thought it was really, really weird

00:17:01 ◼   ► and I didn't really, maybe I missed it,

00:17:02 ◼   ► but I haven't really seen anyone talking about this.

00:17:05 ◼   ► I don't know if you guys had any input

00:17:06 ◼   ► and if not, we can just move along,

00:17:07 ◼   ► but I don't know, what do you think?

00:17:10 ◼   ► - Well, certainly one problem would be that,

00:17:12 ◼   ► you know, like you see on the iPad app store,

00:17:15 ◼   ► one of the problems is if you sell an app on the iPad,

00:17:18 ◼   ► if you also have a separate iPhone version,

00:17:20 ◼   ► a lot of people will mistakenly buy the iPhone one

00:17:23 ◼   ► who wanna run it on an iPad.

00:17:24 ◼   ► And then that's a crappy support experience,

00:17:26 ◼   ► it's a crappy customer experience,

00:17:27 ◼   ► like, because things are blended together.

00:17:30 ◼   ► Obviously, if they did that on the Mac,

00:17:32 ◼   ► if they integrated everything in,

00:17:33 ◼   ► it would be a little easier in that they could at least,

00:17:36 ◼   ► like, I don't know, talk to iTunes

00:17:38 ◼   ► and figure out if you have an iPhone or iPad

00:17:41 ◼   ► and not even show those results if you don't,

00:17:43 ◼   ► something like that.

00:17:44 ◼   ► But for the most part, though,

00:17:46 ◼   ► it would still be a weird experience.

00:17:47 ◼   ► You'd still have a lot of people

00:17:48 ◼   ► who would buy the wrong thing.

00:17:49 ◼   ► It kind of clutters up the store.

00:17:51 ◼   ► Like, I think, I don't think Apple would ever do this,

00:17:55 ◼   ► but I think it would actually be a way better experience

00:17:57 ◼   ► on the iPad if it didn't show

00:18:01 ◼   ► iPhone only apps at all in a store. Like, you know, maybe you could download them from

00:18:05 ◼   ► like your

00:18:05 ◼   ► your purchase tab or something else, but if it made it really really hard to find them or if it just

00:18:09 ◼   ► hid them completely,

00:18:10 ◼   ► first of all, developers would be more forced to

00:18:14 ◼   ► make iPad versions of their apps, even if they suck. They would still have to

00:18:17 ◼   ► like customize it somewhat

00:18:19 ◼   ► rather than showing it like just in the little 2x window

00:18:22 ◼   ► for the doubled up iPhone mode.

00:18:26 ◼   ► But I think it would be way better, because when you blend the stores like that, it just

00:18:29 ◼   ► creates problems.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Doesn't it already do that?

00:18:32 ◼   ► Doesn't the iOS app store not show you iPhone apps by default?

00:18:36 ◼   ► I never find myself seeing phone apps in the store when I'm on my iPad, but maybe I'm

00:18:40 ◼   ► just not searching for hybrid apps.

00:18:41 ◼   ► They show you the ones with the little pluses that work on both, but don't they hide the

00:18:44 ◼   ► iPhone apps?

00:18:46 ◼   ► I believe it will.

00:18:47 ◼   ► I think there's a filter or toggle at the top that you can say either "show me everything"

00:18:52 ◼   ► or "show me iPad only."

00:18:54 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure that's right.

00:18:55 ◼   ► I was going to say before, the reason all these things are on the Mac is another one

00:18:58 ◼   ► of those stupid iTunes legacy things where that used to be how you did everything is

00:19:01 ◼   ► you'd do it on your Mac and you'd connect your thing with the USB cable and you'd, you

00:19:04 ◼   ► know, the whole nine yards.

00:19:07 ◼   ► It's annoying to me mostly because of the reset that the E's did to storage space, because

00:19:15 ◼   ► if you have a bunch of 32 or 64 gigabyte iOS devices and they're all filled with crap and

00:19:23 ◼   ► and you actually sync them with iTunes,

00:19:25 ◼   ► that means when you get Infinity Blade 2 or 3

00:19:28 ◼   ► or whatever the heck they're up to,

00:19:29 ◼   ► it's like a gigabyte game,

00:19:30 ◼   ► that's sitting on your Mac's hard drive

00:19:32 ◼   ► taking up space for no good reason.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Same thing with all the other stuff you have

00:19:35 ◼   ► and it adds up.

00:19:37 ◼   ► The podcast that you download with the podcast syncing,

00:19:40 ◼   ► that kind of syncing,

00:19:41 ◼   ► where instead of the stuff being in the cloud,

00:19:42 ◼   ► which is so dumb because Apple knows what you bought,

00:19:44 ◼   ► Apple knows what you own,

00:19:46 ◼   ► there's no reason that that data has to be on your Mac

00:19:48 ◼   ► and on your thing so it can sync around

00:19:49 ◼   ► and everything like that.

00:19:50 ◼   ► So that is one of those lazy things

00:19:52 ◼   ► That's another reason a lot of people go to,

00:19:55 ◼   ► I'm not going to hook up my iOS device to my Mac anymore.

00:19:57 ◼   ► And there are so many benefits to that.

00:19:59 ◼   ► And one of them is you get a bunch of hard drive space back.

00:20:01 ◼   ► You have to pay for iCloud backup

00:20:03 ◼   ► if you're over the limit for your, whatever, disposable data

00:20:08 ◼   ► that you have to back up to iCloud.

00:20:09 ◼   ► But I'll be glad when all that stuff finally leaves iTunes

00:20:14 ◼   ► and we don't have to have our data duplicated

00:20:17 ◼   ► in multiple places and have to deal with all that stuff.

00:20:19 ◼   ► And the worst part is that if you just manage your device

00:20:22 ◼   ► from iOS, you can kind of sort of feel like you have control over it.

00:20:26 ◼   ► And then if for some reason you have to hook it up to your Mac, because you want

00:20:29 ◼   ► to like do a file copy into like the documents folder and the, on a Kindle or

00:20:33 ◼   ► some thing, you know, you want to do something that only iTunes can do, or

00:20:36 ◼   ► that only iTunes can do easily.

00:20:38 ◼   ► You would think that it wouldn't mess with anything else, but it does inevitably

00:20:41 ◼   ► new icons appear on your home screens because it sinks them over it.

00:20:45 ◼   ► I don't understand how it decides how to blend the state of things that are on

00:20:49 ◼   ► your Mac with state of things in your iOS device, but it always pisses me off.

00:20:51 ◼   ► when it does.

00:20:52 ◼   ► Well, you should also consider that if you back up your device to iTunes, even selectively,

00:20:58 ◼   ► those backups, or at least in my experience, tend to be quite big, like gigabytes big.

00:21:03 ◼   ► And so, to your point, Jon, if you don't sync, or specifically if you don't back up against

00:21:08 ◼   ► your iTunes library, you're saving gigabytes that way as well.

00:21:11 ◼   ► I mean, it all adds up really, really fast.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Someone in the chat room asked, "What about backing up the data of apps?

00:21:17 ◼   ► Not every app backs up to iCloud?"

00:21:18 ◼   ► When you do iCloud backups, it backs up all your data.

00:21:21 ◼   ► It's not up to the applications to back up to iCloud. When you do iCloud backups to your

00:21:25 ◼   ► iOS device, it basically just wanders through all the document containers and pulls out

00:21:28 ◼   ► all the documents. That's right, Marco, right?

00:21:30 ◼   ► Well, yeah, there's this weird thing with temp folder versus document folders where

00:21:35 ◼   ► it won't back up things that are in temp folders, but it will also wipe them randomly. So then

00:21:40 ◼   ► it's up to developers. Like for me, I'm writing this podcast app, and a podcast, you wouldn't

00:21:45 ◼   ► want that to be in the temp folder because you wouldn't want the system to randomly come

00:21:50 ◼   ► by and delete it if it's low on space. Because then people would launch your app thinking

00:21:53 ◼   ► they have all the stuff downloaded and see, "Oh, all my stuff's gone." That's bad.

00:21:57 ◼   ► But you also don't want iCloud to back that up because it would take up everyone's iCloud

00:22:01 ◼   ► space and it would have to retransmit everything up and down. So it's up to the developers

00:22:05 ◼   ► to set a "don't backup" flag on anything outside of the temp folders. And some developers do

00:22:11 ◼   ► it right, and as you can expect, many don't.

00:22:13 ◼   ► Does that mean that the iTunes backup is still safer because it just copies everything, or

00:22:18 ◼   ► is the iTunes backup also on or that stuff?

00:22:20 ◼   ► The iTunes backup will copy over those files, which is nice,

00:22:23 ◼   ► because then if you have to do a restore on your phone,

00:22:26 ◼   ► if you get it repaired or if it messes up,

00:22:29 ◼   ► they will be copied back over on a restore, which is nice.

00:22:32 ◼   ► And you don't have to redownload everything.

00:22:33 ◼   ► But then those also on your hard drive,

00:22:34 ◼   ► so it's kind of a mixed bag.

00:22:36 ◼   ► Yeah, that's another-- well, so this is another case

00:22:38 ◼   ► where if they got rid of the iTunes aspect of this,

00:22:40 ◼   ► it would kind of force developers

00:22:42 ◼   ► to do-- to manage their data in the correct way.

00:22:44 ◼   ► Otherwise, they'd have disgruntled customers,

00:22:47 ◼   ► Whereas now they get some percentage of disgruntled customers.

00:22:49 ◼   ► Because if they're doing it wrong and someone had an iCloud backup and then they restore

00:22:52 ◼   ► from the iCloud backup and the restore for that app didn't work right, they're pissed

00:22:57 ◼   ► off at, you know, probably at Apple, but maybe at the app developer too.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Whereas all the people who use iTunes for it are fine because they backed up everything.

00:23:04 ◼   ► Does iCloud backup save your passwords?

00:23:06 ◼   ► Because I know on iTunes you have to encrypt your backup to do that.

00:23:09 ◼   ► No.

00:23:10 ◼   ► No, it doesn't.

00:23:11 ◼   ► Well, I can't say that authoritatively.

00:23:13 ◼   ► It didn't when it launched.

00:23:14 ◼   ► I can tell you that.

00:23:15 ◼   ► know if there's an option now to do it. I'm guessing not, though, but that's, yeah,

00:23:20 ◼   ► because Apple, the iTunes engineers, like even, like I talked to some of them at WWDC

00:23:24 ◼   ► about, you know, what would be appropriate to store in iCloud for, like, you know, they

00:23:28 ◼   ► say don't store, if you're a developer, they say don't store passwords in iCloud.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Okay, how about a login token? Does that count? Login cookie? Auth token? OAuth tokens? And

00:23:39 ◼   ► they were a little iffy on that. You could tell that they really don't want to be responsible

00:23:43 ◼   ► for that. They really don't want you storing any kind of sensitive stuff in iCloud.

00:23:49 ◼   ► And you can kind of see how they're approaching iCloud Keychain, and they really want you

00:23:53 ◼   ► to have the passcode and have all that encrypted and everything and have that be very secure

00:23:56 ◼   ► and controlled and limited. So I'm guessing it doesn't simply because—can anybody confirm

00:24:03 ◼   ► that? I'm guessing it doesn't just because they seem very reluctant to take on password

00:24:08 ◼   ► storage.

00:24:09 ◼   ► And it probably is encrypted, but it's just that it's so easy to pull that data down that you know

00:24:14 ◼   ► They they didn't want to it like you said I think I cloud keychain is the one place that they're willing to put

00:24:19 ◼   ► passwords and other types of information

00:24:21 ◼   ► With the advent of that there should be a way for you to take all that information that you would have you know those all

00:24:26 ◼   ► OAuth tokens and stuff that you would have put someplace else and maybe shove them to iCloud keychain where Apple says you're allowed to

00:24:30 ◼   ► Put that stuff who knows?

00:24:32 ◼   ► There aren't there an authentic speaking of that there are some authenticated. I

00:24:37 ◼   ► on iPod. Podcast feeds?

00:24:39 ◼   ► There are. I'm not supporting them. But there are.

00:24:42 ◼   ► Someone asked about that on Twitter. I'm like, "I haven't run across one of those."

00:24:45 ◼   ► I used to have an authenticated RSS feed back in the day when the Derek Fireball feed was

00:24:48 ◼   ► like that.

00:24:50 ◼   ► And for all of the reasons why John Gruber stopped doing that, it's pretty hard for

00:24:55 ◼   ► podcasts also. It's very hard to support that in an app. Because I'm doing server-side

00:24:59 ◼   ► crawling and everything revolves around this. And there's pretty much no good way. I'm

00:25:03 ◼   ► I'm not going to ask everyone for their passwords to an auth fee.

00:25:06 ◼   ► That's crazy.

00:25:07 ◼   ► I'm not going to—there's so many reasons why that's a terrible idea.

00:25:11 ◼   ► So I'm not going to support that.

00:25:14 ◼   ► Although I think downcast does support that.

00:25:16 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure it does.

00:25:17 ◼   ► So if you need that, use downcast.

00:25:19 ◼   ► So, John, I hear Christmas came early at your house.

00:25:23 ◼   ► It's not really Christmas.

00:25:25 ◼   ► It happens to coincide with Christmas.

00:25:26 ◼   ► But this has been in the works as soon as it became clear that Panasonic was probably

00:25:32 ◼   ► probably going to stop making plasma TVs.

00:25:34 ◼   ► And that was like a year ago, they were rumbling about that, and then Panasonic would say something,

00:25:38 ◼   ► and they would say, "Oh no, we still have plans," and blah, blah, blah.

00:25:41 ◼   ► But it was clear the writing was on the wall.

00:25:42 ◼   ► And then I think like a couple months ago, six months ago, they made the official announcement

00:25:46 ◼   ► they're not going to make plasma TVs anymore.

00:25:48 ◼   ► So then I had to make a decision, and I knew I was going to have to, which is, do I just

00:25:52 ◼   ► keep using the TV I have, or do I buy one of the last Panasonic plasmas before they

00:25:57 ◼   ► go away for good?

00:25:59 ◼   ► And the reason I was thinking about this has to do with the still terrible state of television

00:26:05 ◼   ► technology.

00:26:06 ◼   ► I should have written down the show number in here, but I didn't.

00:26:07 ◼   ► But I talked about TV tech on an old Hypercritical.

00:26:10 ◼   ► Does any of you remember the episode number?

00:26:13 ◼   ► Anyway, that was several years ago.

00:26:15 ◼   ► I think it was like 2011.

00:26:16 ◼   ► I actually bought my TV in 2009, and I was just talking about it in 2011, a Hypercritical.

00:26:23 ◼   ► And the problem with TV tech is after the CRT era, the kids ask your parents, the big

00:26:28 ◼   ► giant, very deep glass tubes with a little electron gun in the back of it that scans

00:26:34 ◼   ► a little line across these little phosphors.

00:26:36 ◼   ► The things that you see on everyone's curb sitting there for weeks getting rained on

00:26:40 ◼   ► and nobody wants them and nobody will even take them for free.

00:26:42 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:26:43 ◼   ► Yeah, they can't throw them in the garbage because they have lead in them.

00:26:45 ◼   ► You have to get the special people to come and pick them up and, yeah, those things.

00:26:48 ◼   ► That technology was around for a long time, and I wouldn't say it was perfected because

00:26:51 ◼   ► it always had problems, but it was clear that if you bought a TV, you were going to get

00:26:56 ◼   ► a cathode ray tube for a long time.

00:26:58 ◼   ► was clear—and they made them pretty darn good.

00:27:01 ◼   ► The Sony Trinitron was sort of the premier consumer brand for good televisions, at first

00:27:09 ◼   ► because they only curved in one direction, so they were cylindrical instead of being

00:27:12 ◼   ► bubble-shaped, and then eventually they became entirely flat.

00:27:16 ◼   ► And they had disadvantages and advantages, but there weren't that many options.

00:27:20 ◼   ► So you're like, "Well, the best TV I can get is the best CRT I can get."

00:27:24 ◼   ► And then the waters started to get muddied when they came out with DLP and other stuff

00:27:27 ◼   ► like that. But I don't know if you guys remember the DLP stuff, the projection TVs. They always

00:27:33 ◼   ► had terrible disadvantages versus the CRT. And it was still clear that if you cared about

00:27:37 ◼   ► the best looking TV, just get a CRT. Get the best CRT you can get, which is probably a

00:27:41 ◼   ► Sony Tran-Tron. Projection might be bigger, but it's just so dim off angle and the colors

00:27:46 ◼   ► are all messed up. And all sorts of compromises that made you think, "Unless I need one of

00:27:51 ◼   ► the special features like giant size, for example, if I want just a television television,

00:27:56 ◼   ► I'm getting a CRT."

00:27:57 ◼   ► The chat room looked it up and it was episode 16.

00:27:59 ◼   ► We'll put that in the show.

00:28:00 ◼   ► It's episode 16 of Hypercritical.

00:28:03 ◼   ► So when High Definition Television came out, that just made things very confusing because

00:28:08 ◼   ► they did make a couple of high definition CRTs, but CRT was on its way out and the new

00:28:12 ◼   ► flat screens were in.

00:28:13 ◼   ► First DLP and other rear projection things that were not as deep as a CRT, because I

00:28:20 ◼   ► had one of the giant CRTs and if you got a CRT that was over 35 or 34 inches or whatever,

00:28:25 ◼   ► was super deep and really heavy, whereas you could make a not-quite-as-deep projection

00:28:30 ◼   ► television of that size. So very quickly we got into the "flat screens," which were either

00:28:34 ◼   ► LCD or plasma. I think plasmas came first, because LCDs were too expensive of that size.

00:28:40 ◼   ► And that's where all the crap started, because both LCD and plasma have compromises that

00:28:45 ◼   ► CRTs didn't have. I guess the one compromise that CRTs had, of course, that the flat screens

00:28:50 ◼   ► didn't, was that they were gigantic and heavy. But that was it. People would find a room

00:28:55 ◼   ► in their house for, you know, they used to make it, build them into pieces of furniture.

00:28:59 ◼   ► CRTs were gigantic, but you'd find a place for it. Every other part of them was fine.

00:29:02 ◼   ► Wait, I can't let that go.

00:29:04 ◼   ► Convergence, Aperture Grill weirdness, all the various analog artifacts that could show up.

00:29:11 ◼   ► Well, they were only showing, I'm talking about for standard death, they're only showing standard

00:29:15 ◼   ► death, so you didn't care about all the, you know, you're not missing, it was always going to be

00:29:19 ◼   ► fuzzy. It was low resolution, right? And so, in the fuzz, I think towards the end, the trinitrons,

00:29:24 ◼   ► in terms of convergence and everything like that were amazingly good. Like as good as you could

00:29:28 ◼   ► hope with a cruddy analog signal. And in fact, the fuzziness kind of helped it blend together.

00:29:33 ◼   ► Because if you've got something that was just a series of square pixels, the size,

00:29:36 ◼   ► you know, the number of lines on a CRT, that would look gross. Like CRTs sort of had a distinctive

00:29:42 ◼   ► look. And again, they weren't perfected, perfected, but they were pretty solid. But they didn't have

00:29:46 ◼   ► all the crazy compromises that plasmas and LCD had. Plasmas in the beginning were super hot and

00:29:53 ◼   ► powerful and like, you know, build up tons of heat and didn't look that good and, you

00:29:59 ◼   ► know, had this weird, a lot of weird artifacts in them.

00:30:02 ◼   ► And LCDs were even worse because they, the way LCD works is you've got a light shining

00:30:08 ◼   ► through this liquid crystal and the crystal turns on and off.

00:30:13 ◼   ► It lets light through or not.

00:30:15 ◼   ► And the problem was when you turn them all off and said, "Don't let any light through,"

00:30:18 ◼   ► you still had that big backlight back there trying to get through and a little bit of

00:30:22 ◼   ► it would leak through.

00:30:23 ◼   ► And so your black screen, if you just made an LCD entirely black, would not actually

00:30:27 ◼   ► be black.

00:30:28 ◼   ► In fact, you could light up a room with a black screen, especially in the beginning

00:30:30 ◼   ► in LCDs.

00:30:31 ◼   ► And so they had to come up with ways to fix that.

00:30:34 ◼   ► We're like, "Okay, well, we won't leave the backlight on all the time.

00:30:35 ◼   ► If they make an entirely black screen, we'll just turn the backlight off.

00:30:38 ◼   ► Isn't that awesome?

00:30:39 ◼   ► Well, that's great until you have a bunch of white words in the middle.

00:30:42 ◼   ► Say you're rolling the credits for a movie.

00:30:44 ◼   ► Well, you need the words to be white on the black background, so we need to turn on the

00:30:47 ◼   ► backlight behind the white words."

00:30:50 ◼   ► But the backlight wasn't like one backlight per pixel.

00:30:52 ◼   ► it was like one backlight per four square inches, or at least a square inch or whatever,

00:30:57 ◼   ► so you'd have to turn on some chunky subset of the backlight to make the white words show

00:31:01 ◼   ► up, and that white backlight would make all the black around the white words glow, like

00:31:07 ◼   ► the previous glowing black display that wasn't really black.

00:31:10 ◼   ► This is all black level stuff.

00:31:12 ◼   ► The LCDs had compromises as well.

00:31:14 ◼   ► And so none of these technologies were as a no-brainer buy for if you didn't want a

00:31:20 ◼   ► a projection screen, didn't need something gigantic or whatever, you just wanted a really

00:31:23 ◼   ► good nice looking TV, you couldn't get plasma or LCD because they both had compromises.

00:31:29 ◼   ► And they jockeyed for position in the market, eventually LCD won because everything else

00:31:33 ◼   ► in the world uses LCD and it became cheaper, even though the picture quality of LCD was

00:31:37 ◼   ► never as good as plasma, still isn't as good as plasma.

00:31:40 ◼   ► Again getting back to the black level stuff, the dynamic backlights turned out to be too

00:31:44 ◼   ► expensive and complicated and they decided the consumers didn't care about black levels

00:31:48 ◼   ► anyway so they just went to edge lit where the LCDs where they don't have an array of

00:31:51 ◼   ► backlights behind the monitor that can turn on and off in different sectors and so they

00:31:55 ◼   ► are like "ahh just light the whole thing up and it'll be fine and use mirrors to bounce

00:31:58 ◼   ► it off the edge because then we can make them super thin."

00:32:00 ◼   ► I don't understand this obsession like once they get to be like one inch or a half an

00:32:03 ◼   ► inch thick is it really important to go "oh this is 0.75 inches thick" it's like an Apple

00:32:08 ◼   ► style obsession and unlike handheld things where I think the thinness does have a big

00:32:12 ◼   ► payoff down the line when your thing is like the size of a credit card and maybe when you

00:32:17 ◼   ► you can paint your TV on your wall, it pays off. But going to edge lit this early seems

00:32:23 ◼   ► weird to me that they're, you know, "Oh, look, it's a way to sell your thing in the store.

00:32:27 ◼   ► Look how thin it is. Ooh, you never look at it from the side. If it was an inch thick,

00:32:31 ◼   ► would you say turn up your nose at it because it looks gross? This is 0.75 inches thick

00:32:35 ◼   ► that it's nicer." The compromises they did on LCD TVs in particular in terms of picture

00:32:41 ◼   ► quality just to get them another quarter inch thinner, I do not understand. But that's the

00:32:47 ◼   ► way the market went. And that's why the plasma started to go out, because everybody wanted

00:32:51 ◼   ► LCD. The other problem plasma had is burn-in, and CRTs had this to some degree as well,

00:32:56 ◼   ► where if you leave the same image on the screen a long time, eventually when you put it on

00:32:59 ◼   ► a different image, you'll still be able to see that other image. You see it a lot, and

00:33:04 ◼   ► actually you see it on LCDs as well occasionally, where there'll be a cash register, a point

00:33:08 ◼   ► of sale system or something, and there'll be some banner that was on there, and it will

00:33:12 ◼   ► change from the other screen, and you'll still see that banner there, or you'll still see

00:33:15 ◼   ► the stock ticker on some TV that's been showing financial news 24 hours a day for six months.

00:33:22 ◼   ► Plasmas have that burn-in problem, so you can't leave the same image on the screen for a long

00:33:26 ◼   ► time. Otherwise, you will get what they call image retention instead of burn-in.

00:33:29 ◼   ► Now, let me interrupt real quick. So you described the technology behind LCD. So what makes plasma

00:33:37 ◼   ► plasma then? I don't know the details, and I'm pretty sure it's like excited particles going

00:33:43 ◼   ► from the back of something and hitting up against a material that glows, only it's

00:33:48 ◼   ► not like a bunch of tiny little CRTs, but it's similar in concept to that, in that

00:33:52 ◼   ► it's not a backlight shining through a thing that lets light through or not. It's

00:33:57 ◼   ► particles being excited and going from the back of something to the front of something

00:34:01 ◼   ► and hitting it and that emits light. I don't know the details beyond that, but it's close

00:34:06 ◼   ► enough that they both have—that CRTs and plasmas both have burn-in issues, and it requires

00:34:13 ◼   ► more power than an LCD, because with the LCDs you can have the LED backlights, and LEDs

00:34:18 ◼   ► are very power-efficient and they're very bright and stuff like that.

00:34:20 ◼   ► That's another thing.

00:34:21 ◼   ► LCD televisions with LED backlights can be much brighter than plasma televisions, and

00:34:25 ◼   ► that's important if you've got a bright room where you want things to be bright.

00:34:28 ◼   ► So all of these are compromises.

00:34:30 ◼   ► All the current technologies for high-definition televisions are compromises that have problems.

00:34:35 ◼   ► And I was killing myself trying to see what I didn't buy HDTV for so long because I'm

00:34:38 ◼   ► like I'll just wait until the good technology comes out.

00:34:41 ◼   ► Whether it be like there's something called SED or OLED becomes inexpensive or some other

00:34:46 ◼   ► technology that's supposed to not have all the compromises of both plasma and LCD.

00:34:50 ◼   ► And eventually I couldn't wait any longer.

00:34:52 ◼   ► In 2009 I bought myself a plasma television.

00:34:55 ◼   ► And you can listen to episode 16 of Hypercritical to hear how that went because I originally

00:34:57 ◼   ► went in trying to look for an LCD television because everything's LCD, right?

00:35:02 ◼   ► And I ended up coming out with a plasma because it was cheaper and had a better picture quality.

00:35:07 ◼   ► If you were willing to accept all the other compromises of plasma, more power, thicker,

00:35:11 ◼   ► heavier, possibility of burn-in if you're not careful, you got better picture for less

00:35:16 ◼   ► money for a plasma.

00:35:17 ◼   ► And it seemed like a no-brainer to me.

00:35:19 ◼   ► Well, so now they're getting rid of the plasmas.

00:35:21 ◼   ► If they got rid of the plasmas and I kept my current TV, I would have to, like, what

00:35:26 ◼   ► would I do if my current TV broke or I wanted to get a new one?

00:35:29 ◼   ► There would be nothing on the market for me to buy because the number of people making

00:35:33 ◼   ► plasma television is just going down to zero.

00:35:35 ◼   ► Samsung still makes them, but Samsung's heart is really in LCD like everybody else, and

00:35:40 ◼   ► everybody's eventually going to OLED.

00:35:42 ◼   ► But I didn't want to be stuck with an older television that I can't replace because there's

00:35:45 ◼   ► nothing on the market that I want to buy.

00:35:47 ◼   ► And the second issue is that the television I bought, despite extensively researching

00:35:50 ◼   ► and everything, turned out to have a problem where the black level got worse after the

00:35:54 ◼   ► first few years that you used it.

00:35:55 ◼   ► This is a problem, I guess, with, you know, back then and still now, new TVs come out

00:36:00 ◼   ► every year, and you can read a review.

00:36:01 ◼   ► "Oh, here's the new crop of TVs for 2014, and I'll read all the reviews, and I'll do

00:36:04 ◼   ► all the research, and I'll look at them in the showrooms and decide which one I want."

00:36:07 ◼   ► Well, if any one of them has a problem that doesn't show up until a year later, you're

00:36:10 ◼   ► not going to know about that, because by next year, the new TVs will be out, and if you

00:36:14 ◼   ► bought one this year, you're going to end up stuck with one.

00:36:16 ◼   ► So I had one of those televisions where the black level that started out as being amazingly

00:36:20 ◼   ► good became mediocre later in life with the television.

00:36:24 ◼   ► Well, and even if somebody did a long-term review to tell you that, it wouldn't be useful

00:36:28 ◼   ► to anybody, because if they're telling you, "I bought this TV a year and a half ago,

00:36:31 ◼   ► and it's still great," you can't go buy that TV anymore.

00:36:34 ◼   ► Yeah, they go off the market. It's very difficult to find. And the other problem I have with

00:36:39 ◼   ► the television that I bought, and this is something I didn't even think to check, it

00:36:43 ◼   ► wasn't even on my radar, was, "Does this television have fans inside it?" Which is

00:36:48 ◼   ► not something—I mean, I never owned a CRT that had a fan. I guess DLPs had a fan because

00:36:52 ◼   ► of that one light source, it could get really hot and they'd have fans in them occasionally,

00:36:56 ◼   ► but I didn't even think to check that.

00:36:58 ◼   ► And so I got into my house, and there are four gigantic fans in the back.

00:37:01 ◼   ► And why are there fans in the back?

00:37:02 ◼   ► Because plasmas take a lot of power and run really hot.

00:37:05 ◼   ► And the fancier the plasma, the more likely you were to have fans in it.

00:37:07 ◼   ► The cheap ones didn't have fans, but the fancy one that I got did have fans.

00:37:12 ◼   ► So I kept that TV for four years, and I really liked it, did everything I asked of it.

00:37:15 ◼   ► I never had any problems with burning because I was careful with it, I assume.

00:37:20 ◼   ► You know, I didn't let my kids leave a television show paused on the Plasma.

00:37:23 ◼   ► The rule was, if we call you in for dinner, hit the pause button and then also hit the

00:37:27 ◼   ► power button.

00:37:28 ◼   ► It's not that hard to do.

00:37:29 ◼   ► Managed to do it with two little kids, no burn-in on the screen at all.

00:37:31 ◼   ► It's perfect.

00:37:32 ◼   ► The black levels are not what they were when it was new, but I still think it looks really

00:37:35 ◼   ► good.

00:37:36 ◼   ► But I just kept thinking, "Look, I paid all this money for this fancy TV.

00:37:39 ◼   ► It's four years old now.

00:37:40 ◼   ► At this point, I could buy a much cheaper television that has better picture quality.

00:37:45 ◼   ► And if I'm going to do so, I better do so now before Plasma exits the business."

00:37:48 ◼   ► before Panasonic exits the plasma business, and then my only choice will be an LCD television

00:37:53 ◼   ► or maybe a Samsung plasma, none of which I particularly like.

00:37:58 ◼   ► So that was the situation I found myself in, and this entire year I've been thinking about

00:38:02 ◼   ► whether I'm going to do it.

00:38:03 ◼   ► At many points during the year, I got up to the purchase stage in Amazon and didn't click

00:38:08 ◼   ► on the button.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Like months ago, I did that, and then three months before that, I did that, and I bailed

00:38:13 ◼   ► out at the last minute.

00:38:14 ◼   ► I was just driving myself crazy.

00:38:16 ◼   ► I'm just really just like agonizing like your hands like hovering above the mouse

00:38:22 ◼   ► really with your finger pointing down ready just click and I can't do it

00:38:28 ◼   ► I'm picturing Federiki like the first Federiki presentation when he was all

00:38:33 ◼   ► nervous and shaky trying to do the mouse gestures I'm picturing you with like

00:38:36 ◼   ► that that's shaking nervous hand wondering should I do it I can't I can't

00:38:41 ◼   ► I'll tell you I'll tell you what was preventing me from doing it but we

00:38:45 ◼   ► probably do a sponsor break first. I was just about to say, why don't we hear about something

00:38:50 ◼   ► else that's awesome. Alright, this episode, this is a first time sponsor for us, although

00:38:54 ◼   ► not for podcasting in general because they're awesome. This episode is also sponsored by

00:38:58 ◼   ► Pixelmator. Or is it Pixelmator? It's Pixelmator. Alright, I'll go with Pixelmator. Pixelmator

00:39:08 ◼   ► is a full featured image editing app for the Mac. They don't, I mean, they don't tell

00:39:13 ◼   ► you it's like Photoshop because I don't know I guess it's not cool to mention

00:39:16 ◼   ► your competitors like that but it's basically like Photoshop but 30 bucks

00:39:20 ◼   ► and better in a lot of ways and so it's 30 bucks in the Mac App Store I'll say

00:39:26 ◼   ► that right now pixelmator go to the Mac App Store it's frequently featured it

00:39:30 ◼   ► shouldn't be hard to find or you can go to pixelmator.com now pixelmator it's

00:39:35 ◼   ► you look at what it can do and first of all if you go to their site it's really

00:39:38 ◼   ► it's a fantastically designed site and it shows off a lot of the cool features

00:39:42 ◼   ► you can see all sorts of stuff they have.

00:39:45 ◼   ► They have everything from image editing down to drawing

00:39:49 ◼   ► and even vector drawing tools all in one app.

00:39:52 ◼   ► And it's kept very much in the modern Mac ways

00:39:57 ◼   ► of doing everything right.

00:40:00 ◼   ► It seems like they are geniuses at optimizing for the Mac

00:40:05 ◼   ► and keeping everything up to date.

00:40:06 ◼   ► So not only are they already optimized for Mavericks,

00:40:08 ◼   ► but they already use OpenCL,

00:40:10 ◼   ► They use the Accelerate framework to use a lot of the vectorizing functions,

00:40:14 ◼   ► and they have amazing performance on Mac.

00:40:16 ◼   ► Everything is very Mac-like.

00:40:18 ◼   ► It's everything that you wished pro editing apps were in regards

00:40:23 ◼   ► to being super Mac-like and friendly, but unfortunately,

00:40:25 ◼   ► the other ones usually aren't.

00:40:28 ◼   ► So they recently released a big update, and it's pretty impressive.

00:40:31 ◼   ► It's called Pixelmator 3.0 FX.

00:40:34 ◼   ► It's a major upgrade featuring a lot of new tools to play with,

00:40:38 ◼   ► including non-destructive layer styles,

00:40:40 ◼   ► a very advanced feature,

00:40:42 ◼   ► a liquify tool, and an all new image editing engine

00:40:46 ◼   ► that using all these cool things,

00:40:48 ◼   ► grand central dispatch, parallelization,

00:40:50 ◼   ► multiple thread support, everything else,

00:40:53 ◼   ► OpenCL, all these GPU acceleration support,

00:40:56 ◼   ► the new engine is almost twice as fast as the old engine,

00:40:59 ◼   ► and the old engine was pretty fast already.

00:41:01 ◼   ► That's saying a lot.

00:41:02 ◼   ► They fully support Mavericks with tags, multiple displays.

00:41:05 ◼   ► They're good power citizens.

00:41:07 ◼   ► They use AppNap and everything else.

00:41:10 ◼   ► And Pixelmator 3.0 FX is a free upgrade

00:41:13 ◼   ► to all existing Pixelmator customers.

00:41:15 ◼   ► Actually, in their script, they wrote the word "costumers" here.

00:41:18 ◼   ► Or maybe Lex wrote that.

00:41:20 ◼   ► I'm going to blame Lex.

00:41:21 ◼   ► So whether you're an existing Pixelmator

00:41:23 ◼   ► costumer or an existing Pixelmator customer,

00:41:26 ◼   ► it's a free upgrade.

00:41:29 ◼   ► And it's only $30 if you're not.

00:41:31 ◼   ► And this is not the first free upgrade they've done.

00:41:34 ◼   ► I think I got upgraded one to two for free anyway.

00:41:38 ◼   ► They're really great to support, and you can't beat this price point.

00:41:40 ◼   ► Thirty bucks for an app with this amount of power.

00:41:42 ◼   ► It almost seems unreal.

00:41:45 ◼   ► So check it out.

00:41:46 ◼   ► Pixelmator.com.

00:41:47 ◼   ► It's a full-featured image editing app for the Mac.

00:41:50 ◼   ► Very Mac-like, very awesome, and this great new 3.0 FX upgrade is really impressive.

00:41:55 ◼   ► So thanks a lot to Pixelmator for sponsoring the show.

00:41:57 ◼   ► You guys probably don't remember this, but back in the 8-bit days, 8-bit graphic days,

00:42:03 ◼   ► There was a whole suite of Mac applications that you do graphics in 256 colors.

00:42:09 ◼   ► And they were pretty expensive.

00:42:10 ◼   ► They were way more than 30 bucks each, right?

00:42:13 ◼   ► And then the 32-bit error, where, you know, 24-bit, 32-bit error, there was, of course,

00:42:18 ◼   ► Adobe Photoshop, which eventually became the big dog.

00:42:20 ◼   ► But there were also other things, like what I want to call live picture or something,

00:42:24 ◼   ► and a couple other ones.

00:42:25 ◼   ► And to play in that game, to play in the 8-bit space, a lot of people could play there, because

00:42:29 ◼   ► it's 256 colors.

00:42:31 ◼   ► You can make a little pixel editor.

00:42:32 ◼   ► But to play in the Photoshop realm of like, oh, true color images, you had to write your

00:42:38 ◼   ► own graphics engine, and that was a difficult thing to do.

00:42:41 ◼   ► And a lot of the market was like, well, I can't just do what Photoshop did.

00:42:44 ◼   ► I have to do something different.

00:42:45 ◼   ► And so live picture was like, not resolution independent or nondestructive, but a similar

00:42:49 ◼   ► type of thing where their image engine was very different than Photoshop's.

00:42:53 ◼   ► And it turns out that the Photoshop-style image engine won.

00:42:56 ◼   ► And then for a long time, it was just Photoshop, and that's all there was, with a couple other

00:43:00 ◼   ► minor competitors and they really got a foothold. But nowadays it's amazing that Apple has improved

00:43:06 ◼   ► the Mac platform enough, and just the Mac platform, as you don't see this as much on Windows and stuff,

00:43:10 ◼   ► to the point where a small developer can make an amazing high-performance application without

00:43:16 ◼   ► having to make their own graphics engine, but simply by taking advantage of all the graphics

00:43:20 ◼   ► technologies that Apple provides and combining them into a nice friendly application, and offer

00:43:25 ◼   ► it for 30 bucks as compared to hundreds of dollars that Photoshop costs or that Photoshop competitors

00:43:29 ◼   ► than use it at cost. Every time I see a pixelmator, I think of them as like the poster child for

00:43:35 ◼   ► look at what Apple helps you do if you write apps on their platform. Like all the APIs they give you

00:43:41 ◼   ► at every WWDC is like, "Well, who's using all these things?" Well, pixelmator is.

00:43:44 ◼   ► Well, and I was going to say that I love that they know the audience to know that we should mention

00:43:51 ◼   ► in the read OpenCL, Grand Central Dispatch, and AppNap, because our audience is going to know

00:43:57 ◼   ► what all those things mean.

00:43:58 ◼   ► I mean, if you look at their site, it looks like an Apple page. Like, it looks like this

00:44:04 ◼   ► is the page for Apple's new image editor. Like, if you read the site, and it uses Apple's

00:44:09 ◼   ► styling, it's very well designed like Apple's sites, it uses a lot of modern HTML tricks

00:44:15 ◼   ► and stuff like animations and transitions and, you know, as you scroll things move and

00:44:19 ◼   ► stuff like that. Like, it's really very modern variable designed page for it even. And so

00:44:23 ◼   ► So it really does look like this is Apple's pro image editing app that they never actually

00:44:27 ◼   ► made.

00:44:28 ◼   ► Yeah, remember those rumors?

00:44:29 ◼   ► Maybe you don't.

00:44:30 ◼   ► Apple's making a Photoshop competitor.

00:44:32 ◼   ► I think iPhoto, some of the Game of Telephone rumors about iPhoto before it was released,

00:44:36 ◼   ► was that Apple's making a Photoshop killer application.

00:44:38 ◼   ► And Aperture.

00:44:39 ◼   ► Yeah, every time they do anything in graphics, it's like, "Well, Apple's finally going to

00:44:43 ◼   ► make a Photoshop killer.

00:44:44 ◼   ► Well, they should just buy a pixelmator."

00:44:46 ◼   ► No, they shouldn't.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Pixelmator should stay exactly as it is.

00:44:48 ◼   ► Because, I mean, look at how Apple treats Aperture.

00:44:51 ◼   ► And iPhoto for that matter.

00:44:52 ◼   ► I mean, at this point, I don't think Apple needs more major applications to take care

00:44:57 ◼   ► of.

00:44:58 ◼   ► Fair enough.

00:44:59 ◼   ► Well, thanks again to Pixelmator/Pixelmator for sponsoring.

00:45:04 ◼   ► All right, so John, we interrupted you, or you sort of interrupted yourself during your

00:45:10 ◼   ► talk about your TV.

00:45:11 ◼   ► So your hand is hovering over the mouse on Amazon, you're ready to buy, and then you

00:45:16 ◼   ► finally click the button.

00:45:17 ◼   ► So what did you get?

00:45:18 ◼   ► Well, no, before we get to that, I would say why I wasn't buying all those other times.

00:45:21 ◼   ► Why was I not buying?

00:45:22 ◼   ► was my hesitation.

00:45:24 ◼   ► And the hesitation was knowing everything I know now.

00:45:28 ◼   ► People in the chat room are amazed that I

00:45:30 ◼   ► didn't know to ask about fans.

00:45:32 ◼   ► I didn't even think it was a thing I should look for.

00:45:34 ◼   ► And when I saw the televisions in person in the store,

00:45:36 ◼   ► you can't hear a thing in a retail store

00:45:38 ◼   ► because it's just that background white noise.

00:45:40 ◼   ► So you don't hear anything in there.

00:45:42 ◼   ► I just did not even think to look for them.

00:45:45 ◼   ► But now I know all these things.

00:45:47 ◼   ► So the television I wanted to buy, like the sort of equivalent in the model line television

00:45:54 ◼   ► from the one I bought before, had fans.

00:45:56 ◼   ► And I knew it had fans.

00:45:57 ◼   ► And all I would do is spend all day reading through old style forum entries, page after

00:46:02 ◼   ► page after page, of people saying, "I bought this fancy new TV and it's got fans and they

00:46:06 ◼   ► are super loud and it's driving me insane."

00:46:09 ◼   ► And just like 117 old style forum pages, one after the other in different forums, hundreds

00:46:16 ◼   ► of pages of people having these fancy TVs and telling their stories about, "I tried

00:46:20 ◼   ► this and I bolted this to the back of my TV and I had Panasonic come in.

00:46:24 ◼   ► They were supposed to do a fix, but they did the fix and I think it's better and no one

00:46:27 ◼   ► says they did the fix and it didn't help at all."

00:46:29 ◼   ► And then people like, "It's a placebo effect.

00:46:30 ◼   ► You think it helped, but it really didn't and it really shouldn't make any noise at

00:46:33 ◼   ► all."

00:46:34 ◼   ► And just, you know what it's like?

00:46:35 ◼   ► It's like looking for symptoms on WebMD and everything leads to cancer, right?

00:46:41 ◼   ► If you read these forums enough, you think that these televisions just all sound like

00:46:45 ◼   ► leaf blowers in your living room. And I would keep going through the threads going, "Okay,

00:46:50 ◼   ► well, these people got the very first model, so maybe Panasonic fixed something about them."

00:46:53 ◼   ► People are like, "Oh, what's the build date on yours?" And people say, "I got one that

00:46:56 ◼   ► was built six months after yours, and it still sounds terrible, and I'm returning it. And

00:47:00 ◼   ► Panasonic took three weeks to come out, and the guy they sent was a gorilla, and he scratched

00:47:03 ◼   ► up my TV trying to open it up, and it didn't help anyway. And how could I buy? I can't

00:47:09 ◼   ► buy that, right?" So I started looking down my level. "Let me find the cheap Panasonic

00:47:13 ◼   ► plasmas that don't have fans. But the problem is the current crop of cheap panasonic plasmas

00:47:17 ◼   ► that don't have fans have terrible input lag, which is another thing that I did know about

00:47:21 ◼   ► on my past TV, but it was impossible to find. Input lag is when you're playing a video game

00:47:27 ◼   ► and you do something on the video game system, like press the fire button, how long does

00:47:31 ◼   ► it take for you to see the gun fire on your television screen? And you would think that

00:47:35 ◼   ► it would have to do with the game system, and it does, but the television itself can

00:47:39 ◼   ► also introduce some amount of lag. Like the video game system can put out the image over

00:47:43 ◼   ► over its HDMI port of that gun firing,

00:47:45 ◼   ► and it takes some number of milliseconds

00:47:47 ◼   ► for the television to take the signal

00:47:49 ◼   ► that just got off the HDMI from that frame

00:47:51 ◼   ► and display it as little lights on the screen.

00:47:54 ◼   ► And the reason the delay is there

00:47:55 ◼   ► is because of image processing and other stuff

00:47:57 ◼   ► that televisions do to make a nice picture.

00:47:59 ◼   ► And the higher end of television,

00:48:01 ◼   ► you could potentially have more image processing.

00:48:03 ◼   ► But also the higher end of the television,

00:48:05 ◼   ► you could have faster processors

00:48:07 ◼   ► to process the image more quickly

00:48:09 ◼   ► than the cheap television.

00:48:10 ◼   ► So you never know.

00:48:11 ◼   ► Do more expensive televisions have better input lag or worse?

00:48:14 ◼   ► And back in 2009, I knew all about input lag, but nobody who was reviewing televisions ever

00:48:18 ◼   ► mentioned input lag.

00:48:19 ◼   ► It was just a bunch of gamers sitting there with complicated camera setups filming little

00:48:25 ◼   ► microsecond clocks and going frame by frame and trying to figure out what the input lag

00:48:29 ◼   ► was.

00:48:30 ◼   ► Well, fast forward four years, and now, finally, most television review sites will give you

00:48:34 ◼   ► input lag measurements, which vary wildly from site to site, but presumably within a

00:48:37 ◼   ► a single site that uses the same methodologies, you can compare within a site.

00:48:43 ◼   ► So I would look up the input lag numbers, and the input lag of the cheap, fanless Panasonic

00:48:50 ◼   ► Plasma is terrible.

00:48:51 ◼   ► And it used to be great, like two or three model years ago, the cheap one had awesome

00:48:55 ◼   ► input lag, but now it's super terrible.

00:48:58 ◼   ► And the stupid Plasma with the fans had significantly better input lag.

00:49:03 ◼   ► So my choice is, do I care about fans more or input lag?

00:49:06 ◼   ► And also, by the way, the cheaper Plasma has worse image quality.

00:49:08 ◼   ► Like, the fancier one has better image quality as well.

00:49:11 ◼   ► And so every time I would almost buy, I would just take another stroll through the forum

00:49:16 ◼   ► entries with the fan noise and go, "No, I can't do it."

00:49:18 ◼   ► And every time I would almost buy the cheap one, I'd be like, "No, I can't do the input

00:49:21 ◼   ► lag."

00:49:22 ◼   ► And then I'd say, "What do you care?

00:49:23 ◼   ► You never noticed that input lag anyway.

00:49:26 ◼   ► You don't play fighting games.

00:49:27 ◼   ► It's not like it's going to affect."

00:49:28 ◼   ► And I'd be like, "But why?

00:49:29 ◼   ► Why would I buy worse television?

00:49:30 ◼   ► This is supposed to be getting a better television."

00:49:33 ◼   ► because my old television had pretty good input lag because it was expensive and had

00:49:36 ◼   ► fast processors in it, and it had better input lag than the current cheap Panasonic. So I

00:49:42 ◼   ► just did that for a year, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And eventually,

00:49:48 ◼   ► one of the things that put me over the edge was Casey's friend who got this very same

00:49:51 ◼   ► television that I was looking at. And Casey's friend says, "Fans are silent. Can't hear

00:49:55 ◼   ► him at all." Right? You can tell me what he was saying. It's like that it was just totally

00:50:00 ◼   ► a non-issue, right? Yeah, that is pretty much accurate. This is my friend Brian, who had gotten

00:50:04 ◼   ► the same TV, and so I was talking to John after I was talking to Brian saying, "Oh, my friend just

00:50:10 ◼   ► got this Panasonic. Is this what you wanted? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ask him about the fans. Ask

00:50:13 ◼   ► about the fans." Now, see, I have a Panasonic Plasma that does have fans, and I can't hear them,

00:50:20 ◼   ► but I would never be brave enough to tell John, "Well, mine are silent, so go ahead and buy it." I

00:50:26 ◼   ► I would never in a million years say that, because he'd hear them.

00:50:29 ◼   ► It's funny you say that because immediately after Brian said, "Oh, you can't hear him."

00:50:32 ◼   ► I mean, I'll listen again, but you can't hear him.

00:50:35 ◼   ► The first thing I said to, I think both John and Brian was, "Well, Brian says that he can't

00:50:41 ◼   ► hear them, but we both know that John is not going to believe that."

00:50:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, how could you?

00:50:47 ◼   ► It was like, it's so difficult to—the best example was my old television, which had four

00:50:52 ◼   ► gigantic fans in it that didn't make an annoying sound.

00:50:55 ◼   ► they're very big fans so it makes it kind of a low volume kind of rushing air sound.

00:50:59 ◼   ► They're not asymmetrical, that would have been nice. But my wife claims that either

00:51:02 ◼   ► she couldn't hear them or they don't bother her and it's like, well, if you can't hear that,

00:51:06 ◼   ► because it's like night and day, you know, as far as I'm concerned, it's just like,

00:51:09 ◼   ► if you can't hear those four fans, then obviously an individual person sitting in front of a

00:51:13 ◼   ► television has a very different experience of whether they can or can't hear fans or whether

00:51:16 ◼   ► they bother them or not. And again, I had this television with the four giant fans for four

00:51:20 ◼   ► years. I just decided to live with it because it wasn't that bad. I mean, you're listening with

00:51:23 ◼   ► audio on, it's not like, you know, it's, you get used to it. The picture quality made up

00:51:29 ◼   ► for it, all the other aspects of television, you know, and what was I going to do at that

00:51:33 ◼   ► point? I had the same problem. If I returned it, I would have to get it one with worse

00:51:36 ◼   ► image quality without fans or something. And the other thing about plazas, by the way,

00:51:40 ◼   ► since they use so much more power than LCDs, and since apparently the analog electronics

00:51:45 ◼   ► industry does not care about ambient noise, which drives me insane, see also my big rant

00:51:49 ◼   ► about my Power Mac G5's power supply, which chirped.

00:51:53 ◼   ► Transformers and other analog components

00:51:57 ◼   ► that actually move, as in vibrate, can make noise.

00:52:00 ◼   ► Because moving things make noise.

00:52:02 ◼   ► And sometimes that noise is amplified

00:52:04 ◼   ► through the printed circuit board

00:52:05 ◼   ► that these little components are attached to,

00:52:07 ◼   ► acting like a big speaker type thing, making a terrible noise.

00:52:10 ◼   ► Well, plasmas use a lot of power,

00:52:11 ◼   ► have transformers on printed circuit boards,

00:52:14 ◼   ► and they make a buzzing sound, an audible buzzing sound.

00:52:16 ◼   ► They're called the plasma buzz.

00:52:18 ◼   ► I think there's no reason for that stupid buzzing sound to exist.

00:52:21 ◼   ► If Apple designed one of these things, they could design it and...

00:52:23 ◼   ► I say that after the turbing G5 power supply, but anyway, it is possible to design these

00:52:28 ◼   ► analog electronics in such a way that they do not make a noise that is audible to the

00:52:32 ◼   ► person watching the television.

00:52:33 ◼   ► And yet no television manufacturer does that because nobody cares or they're inside entertainment

00:52:37 ◼   ► centers or they're up against the wall or some other thing that muffles them or people

00:52:41 ◼   ► can't hear them.

00:52:42 ◼   ► But you can totally hear transformed buzz on almost any plasma television if you go

00:52:46 ◼   ► into a completely silent room, make the entire screen white, you will hear a buzz. Then change

00:52:50 ◼   ► it to black, the buzz goes down or off. Then change it back to white, and it goes up. That's

00:52:55 ◼   ► in addition to the fan noise, right? So I knew that was there as well. Like, I'm aware

00:52:58 ◼   ► of all the noises that televisions make at this point. And people had problems with Panasonic

00:53:02 ◼   ► plasmas and other plasmas where the transformer would crack and make a super terrible buzzing

00:53:06 ◼   ► noise and people would make YouTube videos of it. The problem with these ubiquitous cameras

00:53:10 ◼   ► that everyone has on their phones now is that those cameras are designed to remove background

00:53:15 ◼   ► noise so people can hear you talking on the phone.

00:53:18 ◼   ► So that's absolutely the worst camera to ever use to try to record background noise.

00:53:21 ◼   ► So a lot of people had videos where they would say, "Here's my new television, and do you

00:53:25 ◼   ► hear that noise of the fan or the buzzing?"

00:53:27 ◼   ► And you didn't, because the phones cancel the noise out.

00:53:31 ◼   ► But they'd bring the phone around to the back of the television with the camera video recording,

00:53:34 ◼   ► and they'd put it right up next to the fan, and then you could hear at least the sound

00:53:37 ◼   ► quality of the fan.

00:53:39 ◼   ► But then they'd go, "Oh, look, I'm backing away here," and you can't hear it at all.

00:53:41 ◼   ► It's like, well, of course you can't hear it at all.

00:53:42 ◼   ► The phone is removing that noise.

00:53:44 ◼   ► And that's how I felt about individual people's reports of, "Oh, I can't hear the fan."

00:53:48 ◼   ► Well, maybe your high-frequency hearing is gone because you're 50 years old.

00:53:52 ◼   ► Or maybe there's a giant fan blowing in the room because you're hot all the time but you

00:53:56 ◼   ► don't like air conditioning.

00:53:57 ◼   ► Or maybe your air conditioning is on and you can't.

00:53:58 ◼   ► Who knows why you can't hear the fan?

00:53:59 ◼   ► But I knew if there was something spinning, moving air in the back of that thing, I'd

00:54:02 ◼   ► be able to hear it.

00:54:05 ◼   ► But enough people, you know, Casey's friend, other people who own them on forums and stuff

00:54:11 ◼   ► like that said that it's an overblown problem.

00:54:14 ◼   ► And yes, if you read these 100-page threads about people who have televisions and make

00:54:18 ◼   ► too much noise, maybe they have some sort of problematic unit there, or maybe they're

00:54:22 ◼   ► blowing it over.

00:54:23 ◼   ► But I figured I have to make a decision.

00:54:25 ◼   ► It's almost the end of the year.

00:54:26 ◼   ► These models are going to go away.

00:54:28 ◼   ► I'll buy it.

00:54:29 ◼   ► I'll make sure I have a 30-day return window, and if it's too loud, I'll return it.

00:54:32 ◼   ► So I actually clicked the button to get the thing delivered.

00:54:34 ◼   ► I ordered it from Amazon, which I'd never done with the big TV before.

00:54:37 ◼   ► I bought my last one from Best Buy, mostly because I wanted Best Buy to haul away my

00:54:41 ◼   ► 350-pound CRT thing, and they did, and they took it away for free, and that was more than

00:54:45 ◼   ► worth the price of buying it at Best Buy.

00:54:48 ◼   ► And Amazon has sales tax now as well, so there's not even an advantage of buying it at Amazon

00:54:52 ◼   ► to get rid of the sales tax.

00:54:53 ◼   ► But I did it.

00:54:55 ◼   ► I had a pretty good delivery experience to the people who brought the television in,

00:54:58 ◼   ► although the styrofoam in the box was cracked.

00:55:01 ◼   ► I wonder how high did this television have to be dropped from for the styrofoam surrounding

00:55:07 ◼   ► to get the crack. Because these are not small pieces of styrofoam. These are big, giant

00:55:10 ◼   ► blocks of styrofoam, cracked almost all the way through. But the television itself was

00:55:13 ◼   ► entirely undamaged. They unpacked it before they left, and before I signed anything, just

00:55:18 ◼   ► inspect the television. They plugged it in, turned it on, made sure it actually worked.

00:55:21 ◼   ► Everything looked good. I hooked it up. It has fans in it. There's two fans instead of

00:55:26 ◼   ► four. I can hear them. But the thing is, and I didn't think about this before I was thinking

00:55:32 ◼   ► about the television, is it's not so much that I don't want to be able to hear the fans.

00:55:37 ◼   ► that they were quieter than my old television's fans. And that, I said, "Well, it's still

00:55:41 ◼   ► an upgrade. It's still quieter than it was." And these fans are significantly quieter than

00:55:45 ◼   ► my old television's fans. So much so that now I can hear the Transformer buzz way better

00:55:49 ◼   ► than I could have my old television. Because the old fans were so overwhelming that they

00:55:55 ◼   ► totally blanked out the Transformer buzz. But now the fans are so quiet that I can hear

00:56:01 ◼   ► the Transformer buzz better.

00:56:05 ◼   ► That's wonderful. That's just truly fantastic.

00:56:07 ◼   ► But you know, I haven't made a final decision yet, but I've pretty much decided that I'm

00:56:11 ◼   ► going to keep it. Mostly because it is so much better than my old television in all

00:56:16 ◼   ► ways. Like, it has fan noise, but the fan noise is quieter. It has transformer buds,

00:56:19 ◼   ► but it's probably about the same as my old TV. The picture quality is so much better

00:56:23 ◼   ► because in four years, things have just gotten better. It's thinner than my old television.

00:56:26 ◼   ► It's fancier looking. The only major disadvantage it has over my old television, and this is

00:56:31 ◼   ► true of all televisions these days, and I'm not going to say I don't know why, but it's

00:56:34 ◼   ► probably just cost cutting, is it has fewer inputs. My old television had four HDMI inputs,

00:56:40 ◼   ► a bunch of S-video that I was never going to use, and two component inputs. And I had

00:56:44 ◼   ► stuff hooked up to all those inputs, and I was basically out of inputs. If I got a PS4,

00:56:48 ◼   ► I would have had no place to put it. This one has three HDMI, so I lose an HDMI here.

00:56:52 ◼   ► Only one component, and of course no S-video or any of those other stuff. And I don't understand

00:56:58 ◼   ► why high-end televisions have been losing inputs. Low-end televisions, sure, give it

00:57:02 ◼   ► one, two HDMI ports. But high-end televisions just have like 10 HDMI ports back there. But

00:57:05 ◼   ► I guess the philosophy is that if you buy high-end television, you really only need

00:57:09 ◼   ► one HDMI point because you're going to have an AV receiver that does all your switching

00:57:13 ◼   ► for you and all that stuff. And that's probably my next purchase decision thing that I have

00:57:17 ◼   ► to deal with, which is a whole other topic entirely.

00:57:19 ◼   ► I can't wait to hear about that.

00:57:21 ◼   ► Yes.

00:57:22 ◼   ► But I've got the TV. It looks really good. I'm kind of trapped in calibration hell, which

00:57:27 ◼   ► is that the place you go when you buy a fancy television and realize that it has a million

00:57:31 ◼   ► adjustments and you're obsessive compulsive like me and you try to keep adjusting them

00:57:35 ◼   ► to get the picture you want without paying somebody 300 bucks to come to your house and

00:57:39 ◼   ► do it with $10,000 worth of video equipment because then you just feel like Marco.

00:57:43 ◼   ► Nice.

00:57:44 ◼   ► Did you ever get your television professionally calibrated, Marco?

00:57:50 ◼   ► No.

00:57:51 ◼   ► I didn't even know that was a thing.

00:57:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I also didn't.

00:57:54 ◼   ► Oh, it's a thing.

00:57:55 ◼   ► is definitely a thing. And the thing is, the calibration, like, if you had the equipment

00:58:01 ◼   ► to do the calibration, I feel like you could probably do it yourself because the software

00:58:04 ◼   ► they have that works with it is, I mean, it's probably complicated, but I get a couple of

00:58:10 ◼   ► tries, you could probably put it all, but the equipment is expensive because you need

00:58:12 ◼   ► like a computer hooked up to a light meter that attaches to your screen that puts out

00:58:16 ◼   ► a known signal and measures it and does all this stuff. And it's sufficiently complicated

00:58:20 ◼   ► that it's difficult to do at home. But mostly I'm just trying to pin down the basic stuff

00:58:24 ◼   ► of black levels, light levels, contrast, and the other basics.

00:58:30 ◼   ► One more thing before we get off the television thing.

00:58:32 ◼   ► I didn't even talk about this, but the other reason I didn't want to buy an LCD is because

00:58:36 ◼   ► they don't do well with motion.

00:58:37 ◼   ► They used to be terrible with motion, now they're a little bit better.

00:58:41 ◼   ► But remember the old days when your cursor on your crappy PC laptop would have trails

00:58:46 ◼   ► behind it?

00:58:47 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:58:48 ◼   ► That was a feature.

00:58:51 ◼   ► Not the cursor trails, not the intentional ones that Windows put in, but the accidental

00:58:54 ◼   ► ones where everything, alright.

00:58:57 ◼   ► That was way, way, way back in the beginning days of LCD.

00:59:01 ◼   ► That's gone now, but LCDs still don't show motion as well as plasmas do for a variety

00:59:07 ◼   ► of reasons, and what LCD televisions do to try to make things look more natural is that

00:59:13 ◼   ► they will put frames that didn't exist in the source material in between.

00:59:16 ◼   ► So if your video is 24 frames per second, but your LCD is refreshed at 60 frames per

00:59:21 ◼   ► second, instead of just showing the same frame a whole bunch of times, and then showing the

00:59:25 ◼   ► next frame a whole bunch of times, and showing the next frame a whole bunch of times, if

00:59:27 ◼   ► you do that on a modern LCD, it looks weird.

00:59:29 ◼   ► It doesn't look right.

00:59:30 ◼   ► It looks stuttery and jerky and strange for reasons having to do with visual perception

00:59:36 ◼   ► that I don't entirely understand, but that you can Google and find out.

00:59:41 ◼   ► And that's not a problem on plasmas, because they're more like CRTs, because they, I guess

00:59:44 ◼   ► I think it's because they pulse the output and it's kind of like a bunch of bright lights

00:59:49 ◼   ► punctuated by periods of no light if you slow down viewing of a screen.

00:59:53 ◼   ► So it's more like a CRT and it looks more natural to you.

00:59:56 ◼   ► So plasmas don't have to do this, this motion interpolation, but LCDs all do it.

01:00:00 ◼   ► And they do it like crazy.

01:00:02 ◼   ► If you look at an LCD television that's doing motion interpolation, there's this thing they

01:00:05 ◼   ► call the soap opera effect because it makes all the shows you're watching look like they're

01:00:09 ◼   ► shot like a soap opera.

01:00:10 ◼   ► I don't know if you've ever watched television and then you flip through the channels and

01:00:13 ◼   ► you come across a soap opera and you can tell, like just because of the lighting and the

01:00:17 ◼   ► sets and stuff, you can just tell, "Oh, that's a soap opera," versus like, "Oh, that's a

01:00:20 ◼   ► movie," like they look different to you. I don't think the soap opera effects looks like

01:00:24 ◼   ► soap operas, but it looks weird. And even regular people notice it. In fact, my parents

01:00:28 ◼   ► recently asked me, you know, years after I tried to explain this to them, they probably

01:00:32 ◼   ► half-remembered, and they said, "I'm looking at television, and the people look a little

01:00:35 ◼   ► bit weird, like they're moving strangely. That's motion interpolation. Every LCD television

01:00:39 ◼   ► does it, and it's on by default in LCD television, and plasmas don't have the problem at all,

01:00:43 ◼   ► which is why they're "better for sports if you care about motion," that you should just

01:00:47 ◼   ► buy a plasma television because they don't have to do all this weird stuff to affect

01:00:50 ◼   ► the video signal.

01:00:51 ◼   ► Well, this plasma television that I got actually had a setting for motion interpolation, and

01:00:56 ◼   ► it was on by default.

01:00:57 ◼   ► I couldn't believe it.

01:00:58 ◼   ► Like, why would you do this?

01:01:00 ◼   ► Like, poor people are buying these plasmas, leaving that setting on and thinking that's

01:01:03 ◼   ► the way the video is supposed to look.

01:01:05 ◼   ► Because I was sitting there right in front of the television after I'd just set it up,

01:01:07 ◼   ► and I pulled the menus down, and I saw the video moving behind the menus, and it looked

01:01:11 ◼   ► all weird to me.

01:01:12 ◼   ► I'm like, "What the hell's going on there?

01:01:13 ◼   ► Did the menu slow down the video on this television?

01:01:16 ◼   ► And I found the motion interpolation setting.

01:01:17 ◼   ► I couldn't believe it.

01:01:18 ◼   ► Why would this setting even exist?

01:01:20 ◼   ► So I immediately turned that off, and there were like 75 other settings that this television

01:01:24 ◼   ► does, all of which everybody should turn off.

01:01:27 ◼   ► Brilliance Enhancer, Black Extension, Automatic Gamma Correction, Digital Remaster.

01:01:33 ◼   ► Like there's a million settings in this thing.

01:01:36 ◼   ► They should all be off.

01:01:38 ◼   ► This is why calibration should be on.

01:01:39 ◼   ► If you buy a fancy television, do not leave it the way it is, because they have tons of

01:01:43 ◼   ► settings that basically screw with the picture to try to make it look better and shir-- like,

01:01:47 ◼   ► a brilliance enhancer?

01:01:48 ◼   ► What the hell is that supposed to do?

01:01:50 ◼   ► It makes things sparkly and bright, you know?

01:01:52 ◼   ► It just screws up your picture.

01:01:54 ◼   ► Turn all those off.

01:01:55 ◼   ► And it probably also adds input lag, not that it matters, because game mode usually turns

01:01:58 ◼   ► all of them off anyway.

01:01:59 ◼   ► So part of my calibration exercise is going through these extensive menus and turning

01:02:03 ◼   ► off every single one of these stupid features that has some crazy made-up marketing name.

01:02:07 ◼   ► thing for sound, you know, like fake surround sound and stuff, turn all that crap off. Maybe

01:02:13 ◼   ► the only one that I would allow a little bit is like noise reduction and put that one on

01:02:17 ◼   ► low, but even that is iffy. So if you have a fancy new television, whether it's LCD or

01:02:22 ◼   ► plasma, turn off all those crazy settings. Try to, you don't have to get it calibrated

01:02:26 ◼   ► by somebody, but you can at least do like the self calibration things where you sit

01:02:30 ◼   ► there and look at a test image and follow the instructions. You can get pretty close

01:02:33 ◼   ► to not a correct image, but an image doesn't look like the crap that the things come out

01:02:38 ◼   ► of the box looking like or that they look like in the showroom.

01:02:41 ◼   ► So that's my advice for if you get a television.

01:02:45 ◼   ► And people say, "What television should I buy?"

01:02:46 ◼   ► I can't advise that you get a plasma.

01:02:48 ◼   ► I just told you all the things about it.

01:02:49 ◼   ► Burn-in fans, power, transformer buzz, LCDs, terrible black levels, weird motion, soap

01:02:56 ◼   ► opera effect.

01:02:57 ◼   ► I think the colors are not quite as nice and natural-looking as they are on plasmas, although

01:03:01 ◼   ► they have gotten a lot better.

01:03:02 ◼   ► There's no good television to buy, so you have to make your own choices with those compromises.

01:03:07 ◼   ► But if one were to get the television that you just bought, what would one be buying?

01:03:12 ◼   ► I bought a Panasonic VT60.

01:03:16 ◼   ► They call it short on the internet, but it's like TCP and then the screen size and then

01:03:22 ◼   ► the letters and numbers.

01:03:23 ◼   ► And Panasonic's V series has been their fancy series.

01:03:25 ◼   ► The old one was the TCP50 V10, and they added the T at some point, back I think around the

01:03:31 ◼   ► VT50 they added it. Anyway, this year's models are TCP55, VT60, or 65, VT60. I think 55 is

01:03:39 ◼   ► the small size this television comes in.

01:03:41 ◼   ► Yeah, what the heck is that about?

01:03:43 ◼   ► What, they don't come small?

01:03:44 ◼   ► They don't come smaller than 55?

01:03:46 ◼   ► Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. When I bought a television for upstairs, I'm like, "Oh,

01:03:49 ◼   ► I need a small television for my bedroom. I don't want it to be this—you don't have

01:03:52 ◼   ► room in a bedroom for a gigantic television." I could not find a plasma that I was willing

01:03:56 ◼   ► to buy that was below 50 inches. And I'm not putting a 50-inch television in it, it's

01:04:01 ◼   ► too big. I don't have room for that. So I had to buy an LCD television for upstairs.

01:04:04 ◼   ► It was crushing to me, but you know, like, what can you do? And yeah, the fancier the

01:04:09 ◼   ► TV, they don't come in the small sizes. Like, 50 was the smallest size I could get my old

01:04:14 ◼   ► TV in. Actually, no, I think it came in a 42. But yeah, 55 is the smallest for this

01:04:18 ◼   ► one.

01:04:19 ◼   ► So I'm sorry. So yours is 65, though? The one you actually ended up with?

01:04:23 ◼   ► No, 55. The 50-inch television I had barely fit in the place that I had. And the nice

01:04:28 ◼   ► thing about the March of Progress is the 55-inch television, its external dimensions are almost

01:04:32 ◼   ► identical to my 50-inch, they just made the bezel smaller, right? So that's nice, you

01:04:37 ◼   ► know, the new television I have has more screen area but takes up about the same amount in

01:04:42 ◼   ► my house. And the reason I got the VT60 instead of, there's actually a model up from that,

01:04:47 ◼   ► they added a Z series, the ZT60, and the only difference with the ZT60 is it has slightly

01:04:52 ◼   ► better image quality in exchange for slightly reduced brightness, but it doesn't have the

01:04:57 ◼   ► nice speakers that this has, and it's like, who cares about the speakers that are built

01:04:59 ◼   ► into the television? Well, I do, because I'm still sorting out the surround sound situation,

01:05:03 ◼   ► which, again, is another topic for another show. And so I actually care about the built-in

01:05:07 ◼   ► speakers, and I like them to be high quality. And the VT had, like, this stupid built-in

01:05:11 ◼   ► camera, which is terrible, and who cares about that? And it was cheaper. So I was like, why

01:05:16 ◼   ► am I going to buy the more expensive TV with fewer features? I went with the VT instead

01:05:21 ◼   ► of the ZT.

01:05:22 ◼   ► - All right, so anything you'd like to add, John,

01:05:25 ◼   ► about the TV?

01:05:26 ◼   ► - I can talk about the software and the television,

01:05:28 ◼   ► but I'll just save that for another show,

01:05:30 ◼   ► because I think that's a whole other,

01:05:31 ◼   ► that gets back to my hypercritical.co blog post

01:05:35 ◼   ► of worst products through software,

01:05:37 ◼   ► and that is totally the case with television.

01:05:39 ◼   ► - All right, Marco, is there anything else that's awesome

01:05:42 ◼   ► that we should share?

01:05:43 ◼   ► - There is, there is one more in fact.

01:05:45 ◼   ► It is our friend's return sponsor, it is Transporter.

01:05:50 ◼   ► Transporter is a special external hard drive

01:05:53 ◼   ► that you own and control,

01:05:55 ◼   ► like any other external hard drive,

01:05:57 ◼   ► but with secure private cloud sharing

01:05:59 ◼   ► and sync features built in.

01:06:01 ◼   ► So like Dropbox, with Transporter,

01:06:03 ◼   ► you can access your files from any of your computers

01:06:05 ◼   ► or your iOS or Android devices.

01:06:08 ◼   ► All your Transporter's files are available

01:06:10 ◼   ► from anywhere that you are with internet access.

01:06:13 ◼   ► You can also share individual files or folders

01:06:15 ◼   ► with web accessible share links,

01:06:16 ◼   ► no matter how large they are.

01:06:18 ◼   ► You know, like a lot of times,

01:06:19 ◼   ► If you try to put like a 5 gig file on Dropbox,

01:06:22 ◼   ► that might not work very well.

01:06:23 ◼   ► With this, you can send somebody a link to a file

01:06:26 ◼   ► or even a whole folder.

01:06:27 ◼   ► You can share your whole photo collection

01:06:29 ◼   ► with somebody else if you really want to.

01:06:31 ◼   ► Careful what's in there.

01:06:32 ◼   ► But you can share everything with anybody you want.

01:06:35 ◼   ► And it doesn't matter how big it is, there's no size limits.

01:06:38 ◼   ► As long as it fits on the transporter, you can share it.

01:06:41 ◼   ► Also, multiple transporters can replicate

01:06:43 ◼   ► from each other and can sync.

01:06:45 ◼   ► So this is a really good way to add

01:06:47 ◼   ► something like an offsite backup service.

01:06:49 ◼   ► You can have like one transporter at home,

01:06:51 ◼   ► one transporter at work or at your parents' house

01:06:54 ◼   ► or your friend's house or whatever, somewhere else.

01:06:56 ◼   ► And then you can have automatic replication between them

01:06:59 ◼   ► so that you have a constant replication and offsite backup.

01:07:03 ◼   ► You can also selectively sync just one folder

01:07:07 ◼   ► so that let's say you and a friend or a coworker

01:07:09 ◼   ► who has a transporter,

01:07:11 ◼   ► you can collaborate on a project together

01:07:12 ◼   ► and you can have like one folder that is your shared folder,

01:07:15 ◼   ► your working files for that project,

01:07:17 ◼   ► and you and your coworker can have everything totally

01:07:19 ◼   ► in sync the whole time.

01:07:22 ◼   ► With Transporter, your data is always secure.

01:07:23 ◼   ► It's never stored on anybody else's cloud servers,

01:07:26 ◼   ► or theirs for that matter, they don't have any.

01:07:28 ◼   ► Data is transferred directly between Transporter devices,

01:07:31 ◼   ► and it's always transmitted with end-to-end encryption.

01:07:35 ◼   ► So Transporter, prices start at just 500 gigs for 200 bucks,

01:07:40 ◼   ► one terabyte for new price drop here,

01:07:42 ◼   ► one terabyte for 250, two terabytes for 350,

01:07:46 ◼   ► And there's also this new option called Transporter Sync,

01:07:49 ◼   ► which is this little puck-shaped thing.

01:07:51 ◼   ► It's $100, and it has a USB port.

01:07:54 ◼   ► And you can plug in any USB hard drive,

01:07:56 ◼   ► and it'll just use that as its drive.

01:07:58 ◼   ► And geeks like us, chances are you probably

01:08:00 ◼   ► have a USB hard drive sitting around that you're either not

01:08:02 ◼   ► currently using, or that, hey, maybe you

01:08:04 ◼   ► could buy an upgrade and plug that into the Transporter.

01:08:07 ◼   ► So it's like USB on one side, you

01:08:09 ◼   ► get gigabit on the other.

01:08:10 ◼   ► It's very, very simple.

01:08:12 ◼   ► So you can also take an extra 10% off any of these prices

01:08:15 ◼   ► with coupon code ATP.

01:08:17 ◼   ► So I verified this before the show.

01:08:18 ◼   ► You can get two terabytes for like $320 after shipping,

01:08:22 ◼   ► which is really great.

01:08:24 ◼   ► It's even, like I looked,

01:08:25 ◼   ► these prices are way cheaper than on Amazon even.

01:08:27 ◼   ► Like this is really great prices.

01:08:29 ◼   ► So go to filetransporter.com to learn more.

01:08:32 ◼   ► And what's really great about this

01:08:35 ◼   ► is that you buy the drive upfront, like any other drive,

01:08:38 ◼   ► and then there's no monthly fees,

01:08:41 ◼   ► no matter how much data you store.

01:08:42 ◼   ► So if you look, for example,

01:08:45 ◼   ► If you try to store like two terabytes of data on Dropbox or similar kinds of services

01:08:49 ◼   ► like that, it's going to cost you quite a bit every month.

01:08:53 ◼   ► With Transporter, it's a hard drive sitting in your house, and it just allows you to access

01:08:58 ◼   ► it through clever software and clever networking stuff.

01:09:02 ◼   ► And so you don't have to pay these monthly fees that other people charge to have it on

01:09:05 ◼   ► their cloud servers.

01:09:07 ◼   ► It's your drive, you own it, you control it, you secure it, and there's no monthly fees.

01:09:12 ◼   ► It's always available, always syncs to any of the transporters, to any of the people,

01:09:17 ◼   ► etc.

01:09:18 ◼   ► Really great deal.

01:09:19 ◼   ► So go to filetransporter.com to learn more, and don't forget to use code ATP for 10% off

01:09:25 ◼   ► any transporter from their store.

01:09:27 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to Transporter for sponsoring the show.

01:09:28 ◼   ► Once again, it's a really cool product that I'm pretty sure is unmatched and it's really

01:09:33 ◼   ► great, so thanks a lot to Transporter.

01:09:35 ◼   ► Also no fans in the transporter.

01:09:37 ◼   ► That is correct.

01:09:38 ◼   ► They're really small too.

01:09:41 ◼   ► They're impressively small.

01:09:42 ◼   ► So if you're worried about adding something big to your house or to your setup, you don't

01:09:46 ◼   ► have to worry about it.

01:09:47 ◼   ► It's very small because they use two and a half inch hard drives.

01:09:50 ◼   ► So they're very, very small.

01:09:51 ◼   ► >> It's just power and Ethernet.

01:09:52 ◼   ► >> Yep.

01:09:53 ◼   ► Very simple.

01:09:54 ◼   ► >> Apparently, there's something that nobody's talking about that we should be talking about.

01:09:59 ◼   ► >> Oh, I added that and I didn't add it for the reasons you think I added it.

01:10:03 ◼   ► This is a tweet from somebody who I'm not going to name because I'm not going to say

01:10:08 ◼   ► things about this tweet, but I'm not trying to slam this person.

01:10:11 ◼   ► This is not about the verge

01:10:13 ◼   ► No, this is a phenomenon that I see all the time and I thought it's worth talking about

01:10:18 ◼   ► I just saw it today

01:10:20 ◼   ► All right

01:10:20 ◼   ► So this tweet has a bunch of at names at the front of it including me daring fireball Marco Josh Topolsky not about the verge

01:10:27 ◼   ► So that this this right away is a pattern

01:10:30 ◼   ► I'm sure Marco seen this because he gets he's on a lot of these same things

01:10:33 ◼   ► where it's at this person at that person at that person at that person and then and then like a

01:10:38 ◼   ► question or a statement. And you look at the list of, like the to list effectively, or

01:10:43 ◼   ► the tweet, and you're like, "What is it that made this person try to address all these

01:10:47 ◼   ► people at once?" It's the same effect that if you send an email, at least the email has

01:10:51 ◼   ► to have a, well, you can put a bunch of people at two. But it's like an email sent to five

01:10:55 ◼   ► people. No one feels the responsibility to actually respond to it. And it's like shotgun

01:10:58 ◼   ► blasting. And if you're shotgun blasting a bunch of people that are only vaguely related,

01:11:02 ◼   ► like I'm on a podcast with Marco, Daring Fireball is not John Gruber's account, but it's his

01:11:07 ◼   ► website's account, but I know him and I know the website. Josh Topolski runs The Verge,

01:11:11 ◼   ► or is involved with The Verge in some way, which is also a tech site, but there's just

01:11:15 ◼   ► basically a bunch of vaguely tech-related people. So it's kind of like saying,

01:11:19 ◼   ► "Hey, people whose name I know on Twitter who are involved in technology,

01:11:23 ◼   ► hear me!" And then you say something, right? And the thing that they said,

01:11:28 ◼   ► that the first bit is just an aside of like, if you're trying to effectively communicate on

01:11:33 ◼   ► and Twitter, don't @ mention a whole bunch of people who you don't know who are just

01:11:36 ◼   ► vaguely related to the topic in general, because you're not going to get a reply, because every

01:11:39 ◼   ► person in that chain doesn't feel a responsibility that they have to reply, right?

01:11:44 ◼   ► And so like either everybody ignores it, or even if you think it needs to have a reply,

01:11:48 ◼   ► you're like, "Well, I don't feel like it's my responsibility to reply.

01:11:51 ◼   ► One of the other guys will surely reply."

01:11:52 ◼   ► And then what ends up is nobody replies.

01:11:54 ◼   ► So this is not an effective strategy.

01:11:55 ◼   ► But the second part is the question.

01:11:57 ◼   ► The question is, "Why isn't anybody talking about the iOS notification sync and OS X that

01:12:01 ◼   ► never shipped?"

01:12:02 ◼   ► And I think this is a great example of, I don't know, when I see things like this, I

01:12:14 ◼   ► actually want to engage in it.

01:12:15 ◼   ► I did try to engage in this a little bit, it didn't have the effect that I thought it

01:12:17 ◼   ► would because it never does, like when you engage with people.

01:12:20 ◼   ► I'm trying to, Casey knows about this and so does Marco probably too, you know the five

01:12:25 ◼   ► whys thing that they tell you in corporate speak.

01:12:29 ◼   ► I've only heard it from you.

01:12:30 ◼   ► Yeah, well anyway, it's like another one of those--

01:12:34 ◼   ► in the future show, we'll talk about work methodologies

01:12:36 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

01:12:37 ◼   ► But it's another one of those like fun games

01:12:40 ◼   ► that they try to play to teach you critical thinking.

01:12:44 ◼   ► And so what I replied to this person

01:12:46 ◼   ► was what I feel like replying to so many people

01:12:48 ◼   ► when they say things.

01:12:49 ◼   ► When they say, why isn't anybody talking about this new feature

01:12:52 ◼   ► that Apple said was going to ship,

01:12:53 ◼   ► it didn't ship, or whatever?

01:12:55 ◼   ► I said, you tell me.

01:12:56 ◼   ► And what I'm trying to get them to do is answer

01:12:59 ◼   ► their own question because I feel like if you could think about it for like if

01:13:04 ◼   ► you thought about it for a little while surely you can come up with just as good

01:13:07 ◼   ► as answer as anybody who put the thing it was like what you're looking for the

01:13:12 ◼   ► sensational version is there's a conspiracy theory here like you know

01:13:15 ◼   ► they they pulled the guards away from the embassy just before the terrorists

01:13:20 ◼   ► came and it's a big conspiracy and they don't want you to know I'm not getting

01:13:22 ◼   ► political again anyway like the conspiracy theories one angle why is

01:13:26 ◼   ► Why is nobody talking about this?

01:13:28 ◼   ► Surely everybody's been paid off by Apple or this conspiracy against this feature or

01:13:32 ◼   ► whatever.

01:13:33 ◼   ► That's the crazy version.

01:13:34 ◼   ► And you can't, this is not implied in, there's nothing in this message that implies this

01:13:37 ◼   ► person thinks it's a conspiracy theory.

01:13:38 ◼   ► But that's one way, one reason someone would direct this type of question.

01:13:42 ◼   ► Like, you guys should be talking about it and you're not.

01:13:45 ◼   ► And the extreme version is it's because you've all been paid off by Apple.

01:13:48 ◼   ► That's why you're not talking about this topic.

01:13:49 ◼   ► Never mind that only a couple of people in this thing have websites where they get paid

01:13:53 ◼   ► to talk about tech.

01:13:54 ◼   ► Don't forget the f-word

01:13:56 ◼   ► What's that? We're all fanboys with an I on the end because that makes it worse somehow

01:14:00 ◼   ► Well, yeah, but but I don't I mean I don't think that's in this question as well

01:14:04 ◼   ► But like a lot of the questions that are like this is like why why isn't anybody talking about it's a leading question, right?

01:14:09 ◼   ► But the idea like assume that's not the case

01:14:11 ◼   ► So this person is not a crazy conspiracy theorist and he's looking for some sort of like

01:14:14 ◼   ► We're all colluding with each other not to talk about this and it's really a terrible shame

01:14:17 ◼   ► And he's the only person who sees through the the facade of fanboys who were on the take from Apple

01:14:23 ◼   ► Like that's ridiculous, right?

01:14:24 ◼   ► So assuming we put aside that ridiculous thing, right?

01:14:26 ◼   ► And say, well, what's left there?

01:14:28 ◼   ► I mean, I'll pose it to you too.

01:14:30 ◼   ► Like, what is, what do you think?

01:14:32 ◼   ► I mean, none of us actually knows, right?

01:14:33 ◼   ► Cause none of us works at Apple.

01:14:34 ◼   ► And if we did, we couldn't say none of us actually knows the answer.

01:14:36 ◼   ► And surely the person answering, asking this question knows that

01:14:39 ◼   ► none of us work at Apple.

01:14:40 ◼   ► And if we did, we couldn't say, so all he's looking for is for us to

01:14:44 ◼   ► provide an answer that he thinks we're more able to provide than he is.

01:14:47 ◼   ► And I don't think we're any more able to provide this answer.

01:14:50 ◼   ► And I'm going to ask you to, what do you think is the answer to this

01:14:53 ◼   ► question. Why isn't anybody talking about the iOS notification sync in OS 10 that never

01:14:57 ◼   ► shipped? Either one of you want to take it?

01:14:59 ◼   ► Well, I'm not allowed to talk about it. I can't. My take would get removed or something.

01:15:05 ◼   ► I'm serious. Either one of you. But what is your best guess at the answer to that question?

01:15:11 ◼   ► Why isn't anybody talking about it?

01:15:13 ◼   ► I forgot.

01:15:15 ◼   ► For whatever reason, it got deprioritized. Well, why hasn't it happened? It got deprioritized

01:15:20 ◼   ► or isn't done, why isn't anyone talking about it? Just like Marco said, I completely

01:15:23 ◼   ► forgot that was a thing, or going to be a thing, I should say.

01:15:26 ◼   ► That's more or less the answer I would give. Because sometimes features don't make it

01:15:31 ◼   ► into software, and it's not a feature that anyone really cared about that much anyway.

01:15:34 ◼   ► So the answer to "Why isn't anybody talking about this feature that didn't ship?" is

01:15:37 ◼   ► because features don't ship in software all the time, and this wasn't a particularly

01:15:41 ◼   ► highly anticipated feature anyway. That's the answer. I don't know 100% certainty,

01:15:46 ◼   ► But that is the literal answer to why isn't anybody talking about obscure features that

01:15:49 ◼   ► didn't ship.

01:15:50 ◼   ► Because, like, it's not a conspiracy theory, features don't ship all the time, and not

01:15:56 ◼   ► a lot of people care about it.

01:15:58 ◼   ► That's pretty much the answer.

01:16:00 ◼   ► And I feel like the person who asked that question could have arrived at that very same

01:16:04 ◼   ► answer if they had looked inward instead of outward with this question.

01:16:09 ◼   ► Like merely asked himself, "Why is it that no one is talking about that?"

01:16:13 ◼   ► And if the answer they arrive at is, "It's a conspiracy theory," well then I can't help

01:16:16 ◼   ► them unless they have some evidence that that's the case.

01:16:20 ◼   ► But like, it has the most—is this worth sending to five people this question that

01:16:24 ◼   ► you would answer yourself?

01:16:25 ◼   ► Like, it's a boring answer and no one wants to hear it, but I really think that's the

01:16:29 ◼   ► answer.

01:16:30 ◼   ► And this model of, "I get my tech information or information about the latest and greatest

01:16:37 ◼   ► cars or drum sets or whatever from these set of people who know more about the topic,"

01:16:42 ◼   ► Like that only goes so far.

01:16:44 ◼   ► At a certain point you have to sort of engage your own critical thinking and see if you

01:16:48 ◼   ► can come up with something on your own.

01:16:49 ◼   ► Because all the other people you're asking are doing this exact same thing you could

01:16:53 ◼   ► do.

01:16:54 ◼   ► Like sometimes you have inside information or inside a historical context, but in very

01:16:57 ◼   ► specific instances like this it's like no one cares about it.

01:17:00 ◼   ► That's why no one's talking about it.

01:17:02 ◼   ► And it didn't ship because sometimes things don't ship.

01:17:04 ◼   ► And maybe that's not true.

01:17:06 ◼   ► Maybe this person knows something that I don't.

01:17:08 ◼   ► That there was a big dramatic fight with Apple executives and they demanded this thing not

01:17:12 ◼   ► ship and, you know, who knows? But I don't know that, you don't know that, and surely

01:17:15 ◼   ► this group of five people is not expecting those details either. And that's the only

01:17:19 ◼   ► reason I include this. Not to yell at the person for asking it because you're not

01:17:22 ◼   ► supposed to ask questions, because people ask, you know, whatever. Everyone does it.

01:17:25 ◼   ► I @-mention random celebrities and say things all the time and then they respond like, "We

01:17:29 ◼   ► all do it," right? But I just thought it was a good example of ineffective @-mentioning

01:17:36 ◼   ► and asking a question that they themselves, I feel like, could have answered just as well

01:17:39 ◼   ► as we could have.

01:17:40 ◼   ► I have nothing to add to that because you pretty much nailed it. I don't know Marco. Do you have anything?

01:17:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm pretty much the same. I I think this is probably it's probably a really boring story

01:17:51 ◼   ► It's probably like oh, you know either either we couldn't get it in time and it wasn't that important

01:17:56 ◼   ► So, you know, we'll work on it for the next release or for you know, a point something or they you know

01:18:03 ◼   ► They could have figured out something, you know between when it was announced and when it was shipped

01:18:08 ◼   ► They could have figured out, you know, oh actually it has this really weird horrible problem that makes it a really bad idea to do it all.

01:18:15 ◼   ► You know, I mean I find stuff like that all the time, which is one of the reasons

01:18:18 ◼   ► I don't usually pronounce features. It's like I'll have some some feature I'll work on, like oh this is gonna be great.

01:18:23 ◼   ► And then I like 90% through with it and I realize oh

01:18:26 ◼   ► wait a minute.

01:18:29 ◼   ► This is actually impossible to be

01:18:31 ◼   ► good or even shippable because of this particular condition or problem or edge case or anything else.

01:18:37 ◼   ► And so maybe they hit something like that.

01:18:38 ◼   ► At the scale they're working on, they're probably

01:18:40 ◼   ► having a little time.

01:18:41 ◼   ► And I think the questions, I guess,

01:18:43 ◼   ► are actually kind of a trap, getting back

01:18:45 ◼   ► to the stuff we talked about in, I think, 41 or whatever

01:18:47 ◼   ► we were talking about, like online criticism and stuff.

01:18:49 ◼   ► Leading questions like this that seem

01:18:51 ◼   ► like vaguely accusatory for no reason directed

01:18:53 ◼   ► at multiple people, seeking some kind of engagement on a topic

01:18:57 ◼   ► where there's no real engagement we have,

01:18:59 ◼   ► it's very easy to get into a pointless flame

01:19:01 ◼   ► war over nothing by responding to these type of questions.

01:19:04 ◼   ► Because again, maybe the person's intent

01:19:06 ◼   ► not, you know, the feeling that we get reading that is probably very different from the intent

01:19:10 ◼   ► of the person asking it. But the way it's phrased is like, all you random people, I demand no Y, X,

01:19:18 ◼   ► Y, and Z. And none of us actually know. And all we can give is the same exact answer that he can

01:19:23 ◼   ► give himself. If you try to say anything back, like if, like try imagining to walk the line in

01:19:29 ◼   ► Twitter of trying to say what I said in big long rambling version back to this person on Twitter

01:19:34 ◼   ► and say, well, features don't ship in software all the time because they don't make the shipping

01:19:40 ◼   ► deadline and it wasn't as highly anticipated and demanded and important enough to be worth

01:19:47 ◼   ► reporting on the fact that it didn't ship. If you could fit that into a tweet and reply,

01:19:53 ◼   ► that's like you've started an argument. Well, this is very important. Don't you understand

01:19:56 ◼   ► how many people want this feature? It's super important. And let me tell you why. You're

01:19:59 ◼   ► going to argue with the person about why you think it's important. It's like, it doesn't

01:20:01 ◼   ► matter if you think it's important. I'm telling you why I think it didn't ship. It only matters

01:20:06 ◼   ► if people who run websites and blogs think it's important. It doesn't matter if an individual

01:20:10 ◼   ► person thinks it's important. It matters in aggregate. Did most people? Did a majority of

01:20:13 ◼   ► people? Did enough people? Did it's noticeable? Did anybody write about this? Well, now I'm

01:20:17 ◼   ► Googling it. I found one guy who did write about it. You just get into this giant rat hole. It's

01:20:21 ◼   ► like, what are we even arguing about? I would much rather be engaging people at all. It's like,

01:20:26 ◼   ► you tell me the answer. So many people send me Twitter messages and emails where I feel like,

01:20:31 ◼   ► "I don't want to answer this, I want you to arrive at the answer yourself, even if it's

01:20:35 ◼   ► a different answer than I would give, because I have no extra knowledge about this than

01:20:40 ◼   ► you do."

01:20:41 ◼   ► It's kind of like the tech support thing, which is a whole other topic that I don't

01:20:44 ◼   ► want to get into now.

01:20:45 ◼   ► And again, I don't want to make it seem like I feel put upon by these things, because I

01:20:48 ◼   ► have no problem just not responding to these tweets when they come, especially when they

01:20:51 ◼   ► have a million @ names in them.

01:20:53 ◼   ► And I assume everybody else in these giant threads doesn't respond, although occasionally

01:20:55 ◼   ► I check and I see Marco will answer these people, and I don't understand why he's doing

01:20:59 ◼   ► it.

01:21:00 ◼   ► Oh, you think he's bad?

01:21:01 ◼   ► I am such a sucker for these sorts of things.

01:21:03 ◼   ► I always bite.

01:21:04 ◼   ► If there's a little worm in front of me, I'm always biting.

01:21:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I have no problem just not responding to them.

01:21:12 ◼   ► But so many times I just want to call them up on the phone and say, "Why do you think?"

01:21:17 ◼   ► I would love for that to happen.

01:21:20 ◼   ► And I want them to just think about it themselves.

01:21:24 ◼   ► They don't want it.

01:21:25 ◼   ► They're like, "Well, they're trying to anticipate."

01:21:27 ◼   ► Like I said, like, I'm now I'm doing a leading question, like, well, what do you think?

01:21:31 ◼   ► Like they think I have an answer in mind, and I'm trying to trigger them to say it.

01:21:34 ◼   ► I'm just I just want them to focus their thought process on it and come up with an answer.

01:21:40 ◼   ► Like I would like to turn it around and say, this is an area where we both have equal and

01:21:44 ◼   ► very little knowledge.

01:21:46 ◼   ► I have a theory.

01:21:47 ◼   ► Do you have a theory?

01:21:48 ◼   ► Let's share our theories with each other and done like not not, you know, not turn it into

01:21:52 ◼   ► an argument.

01:21:53 ◼   ► So next time that you want to ask all of us, including Jean, one of those questions on

01:21:57 ◼   ► on Twitter include a phone number?

01:22:00 ◼   ► You never know.

01:22:01 ◼   ► So many times, we talk about all the online stuff.

01:22:04 ◼   ► That's part of podcasting.

01:22:06 ◼   ► I feel like the bandwidth, the expressive bandwidth, not data

01:22:11 ◼   ► bandwidth, of instant message, email, and stuff like that

01:22:15 ◼   ► is still so much less than voice communication.

01:22:17 ◼   ► That so many times, whether it's in an argument

01:22:19 ◼   ► or trying to help somebody, like trying

01:22:21 ◼   ► to help my parents get something working on their computer

01:22:24 ◼   ► or whatever, I just immediately want

01:22:25 ◼   ► to run to the higher bandwidth connection.

01:22:27 ◼   ► They're like, "Just let me talk to you on the phone.

01:22:30 ◼   ► I can talk to you through this," although it's kind of hard when you're like, "Do

01:22:32 ◼   ► you see a box on the screen?

01:22:33 ◼   ► Is it a gray box?

01:22:34 ◼   ► Does it have a..."

01:22:35 ◼   ► You know, tech support is difficult.

01:22:37 ◼   ► But for arguments or where you have a disagreement or whatever, especially when you're constrained

01:22:40 ◼   ► by Twitter, they're just like, "I just want to call this person up.

01:22:44 ◼   ► I feel like we could settle this in 10 minutes.

01:22:47 ◼   ► Can't do it."

01:22:48 ◼   ► Yeah, I hear you.

01:22:50 ◼   ► And to go back just a quick step, you mentioned episode 41, which is where we were talking

01:22:54 ◼   ► about online criticism and things like that. This week's Back to Work, which was episode

01:22:58 ◼   ► 149, Merlin had a typically awesome, and I mean that with no sarcasm, Merlin, I don't

01:23:04 ◼   ► know if I'd call it a rant, but a monologue about, kind of, sort of vaguely inspired by

01:23:10 ◼   ► what we had said on episode 41. It's really, really good. So if you haven't heard that,

01:23:15 ◼   ► even if you're not a normal listener, you should check that out because it's very,

01:23:17 ◼   ► very, very good.

01:23:18 ◼   ► Yeah, we'll link it up in the show notes. And with that, let's wrap it up for this

01:23:22 ◼   ► week. Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week, Pixelmator/Pixelmator, File Transporter

01:23:28 ◼   ► and Squarespace and we will see you next week.

01:23:30 ◼   ► [music]

01:23:31 ◼   ► Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin, 'cause it was accidental, oh it

01:23:41 ◼   ► was accidental. John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him, 'cause it

01:23:49 ◼   ► It was accidental It was accidental

01:23:55 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm And if you're into Twitter, you can follow

01:24:04 ◼   ► them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that's Casey List M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:24:13 ◼   ► T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C-T-M-A-R-C

01:24:43 ◼   ► I officially announced today and oh my goodness does the m3 look good

01:24:47 ◼   ► The m4 is still that banana color

01:24:50 ◼   ► That moldy metallic rotten banana color. I can't I can't get over it. It's only available in that color

01:24:57 ◼   ► I can't I can't get over it

01:24:59 ◼   ► I don't know what's going on over there in Germany that they think this is acceptable, but oh god

01:25:04 ◼   ► Did you see the m3? Oh it looks so good. It really does. Oh god

01:25:08 ◼   ► I still think that like that the M5, not the M5, the regular 5 series is still by far the most attractive

01:25:15 ◼   ► card that BMW makes in this generation and their kind of obsession with

01:25:19 ◼   ► putting these, they look kind of like skin flaps, like their styling architecture of like

01:25:24 ◼   ► oh we're gonna make the the more aggressive looking body cladding and front fascia and everything and it does look more aggressive and it mostly

01:25:30 ◼   ► looks good, but the whole

01:25:32 ◼   ► the whole skin flappy design where it's kind of organic curves overlapping and stuff

01:25:37 ◼   ► I find less appealing than a more mechanical, or on the other side of the spectrum, more

01:25:43 ◼   ► sort of sculptural type of thing like a Ferrari inlet.

01:25:47 ◼   ► I'm not entirely happy with the, basically the plastic bolt-on bits that they put on

01:25:50 ◼   ► the M's.

01:25:51 ◼   ► In a lot of cases the M's still do look much better and more aggressive than the regulars,

01:25:56 ◼   ► but then in the minute details of the front and rear I'm a little bit iffy on.

01:26:01 ◼   ► Not that this will affect my life too much because I'm not getting any one of those cars,

01:26:04 ◼   ► but.

01:26:05 ◼   ► compared to the regular 5 Series that you like so much, if you put the M Sport option on the 5 Series,

01:26:12 ◼   ► I think it's almost identical externally. There's very, very few differences.

01:26:16 ◼   ► Yeah. It's like the Carrera 4S, where they get the turbo bodywork, but not the turbo.

01:26:21 ◼   ► Yeah. The thing is, the 5 Series has good bones, kind of. The structure, the proportions,

01:26:27 ◼   ► where the headlights are, everything about it is nicely, it's all... And it's just in the little

01:26:32 ◼   ► of details where you can screw up a little bit. I think the M5 for the more aggressive

01:26:35 ◼   ► front and rear plastic bolt-on thing looks a little bit fussy for me, whereas the regular

01:26:40 ◼   ► five looks sort of more stately and subdued and fitting with the car.

01:26:45 ◼   ► But the M3 and M4, it's the same type of thing. Like the M4, I like the shape of it, the coupe

01:26:49 ◼   ► shape. They really, you know, it looks nice and aggressive. But then the details around

01:26:52 ◼   ► the bumpers and sort of the haunches, it gets a little bit fussy and weird for me.

01:26:57 ◼   ► The front air dam on the very, very, very extreme outsides, it has kind of Ferrari-ish,

01:27:04 ◼   ► kind of like in the out, the upper part comes down and around, but the inner part doesn't

01:27:09 ◼   ► meet up with it.

01:27:10 ◼   ► It's like, I don't know, like lips almost.

01:27:13 ◼   ► Not ellips, but a set of lips.

01:27:15 ◼   ► And then on the back, it has like a similar like quasi L shape on the very extreme edges.

01:27:21 ◼   ► That I'm not in love with.

01:27:22 ◼   ► I kind of wish it was a little simpler, like my era.

01:27:24 ◼   ► Skin flaps.

01:27:25 ◼   ► Yeah, there are kind of skin.

01:27:27 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, you're right. Skin flap is a very good way to describe it. But generally,

01:27:31 ◼   ► overall, I just think the M3 particularly looks incredible. I want one so hard and I'm

01:27:37 ◼   ► -- I don't think I could ever afford my car brand new. I mean, it was -- we've talked

01:27:42 ◼   ► about this ad nauseum. It was like $55,000 or something like that new. This, I forget

01:27:46 ◼   ► what the starting price is going to be, but I'm sure it's going to be insane and just

01:27:50 ◼   ► stupid expensive.

01:27:51 ◼   ► What about $70,000, do you think?

01:27:53 ◼   ► I thought they announced it, perhaps not in US dollars.

01:27:56 ◼   ► But anyway, it doesn't matter.

01:27:57 ◼   ► The point is it'll probably be, I would say, 70-ish.

01:28:00 ◼   ► Certainly, 70 to 75 option the way you would want.

01:28:03 ◼   ► And so Panda 19 in the chat just asked, well,

01:28:06 ◼   ► when am I getting one?

01:28:07 ◼   ► I'll get one when it's actually affordable as a used car, which

01:28:10 ◼   ► is like a decade from now.

01:28:12 ◼   ► I'm guessing you'll have one in four years.

01:28:13 ◼   ► Get it in black, though.

01:28:15 ◼   ► I will not get it in black.

01:28:16 ◼   ► Actually, to be honest, I was discussing

01:28:17 ◼   ► with the same friend, Brian, that we

01:28:19 ◼   ► were talking TVs with.

01:28:20 ◼   ► And I forget what the name of the silver was.

01:28:22 ◼   ► Maybe Silverstone?

01:28:25 ◼   ► You would get it in silver?

01:28:27 ◼   ► Well no, so here's the thing.

01:28:28 ◼   ► The blue that they have in the press shots, what is it, Mola?

01:28:32 ◼   ► Is that right?

01:28:33 ◼   ► I forget.

01:28:34 ◼   ► The blue, the light blue.

01:28:35 ◼   ► It's iPad Smart Cover Blue.

01:28:36 ◼   ► Yeah, it really is.

01:28:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:38 ◼   ► I like it, but I don't love it.

01:28:41 ◼   ► However, the silver that I'm speaking of, it's a silver, but with like this weird

01:28:45 ◼   ► bluish hue to it that I actually kind of like.

01:28:49 ◼   ► I don't think I would get it white. If I could, if I could ever find one, I would definitely

01:28:53 ◼   ► or if I were to be able to afford one brand new, I'd get it individual with Lamon Blue

01:28:59 ◼   ► if such a thing was affordable and possible. But if not that, I'd probably get it Silverstone

01:29:03 ◼   ► or Silverstone or whatever it is. But oh man, it looks so good. It was like what, 450-ish

01:29:08 ◼   ► horsepower? I'm trying to find the stats.

01:29:11 ◼   ► 425.

01:29:12 ◼   ► 400 pound feet of torque from about 2 RPM, and yet the fuel economy is actually up quite

01:29:19 ◼   ► a bit. Again, I don't have numbers in front of me, but whatever it was, it was very, very,

01:29:23 ◼   ► very good. I mean, for an M3, anyway.

01:29:26 ◼   ► What do you think about the little Chrysler-esque things behind the little vents behind the

01:29:32 ◼   ► front wheels with the little chrome?

01:29:35 ◼   ► Before Marco jumps in, what do you think of them, John?

01:29:40 ◼   ► I'm kind of okay with doing those details on just on the M series, but the actual execution

01:29:45 ◼   ► of this particular detail, I think the chrome thing coming out of it is too much, and I

01:29:49 ◼   ► don't think the scoop fits in with the rest of the bodywork.

01:29:52 ◼   ► It looks a little bit, like, a little bit tacked on, kind of.

01:29:56 ◼   ► I do like the little M symbol on the brake pad.

01:29:59 ◼   ► Like brake caliper, rather.

01:30:02 ◼   ► I actually agree with you on the side vent.

01:30:05 ◼   ► I think, and the side event is, in general,

01:30:09 ◼   ► it is one of my favorite little features of the M cars,

01:30:12 ◼   ► and it annoys me that you can go and see it

01:30:16 ◼   ► like on every Ford, Taurus, and crappy Kia ripoff

01:30:19 ◼   ► that they totally rip that styling off of the M cars.

01:30:22 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure the M cars did that

01:30:24 ◼   ► a long time before anyone else.

01:30:25 ◼   ► - Not from the M cars.

01:30:26 ◼   ► - They've been doing that for like more than 10 years.

01:30:29 ◼   ► - It's a, on regular, on racing cars

01:30:33 ◼   ► and other high performance cars,

01:30:34 ◼   ► that on many of them it is a functional thing. Yes, on the American ones it's usually not

01:30:37 ◼   ► functional, it's just a service detail, but BMW did not invent whatever that vent is that's

01:30:42 ◼   ► behind the front wheel.

01:30:43 ◼   ► Well, but like with the little chrome accent, like it looks very, like when other people

01:30:47 ◼   ► do it, it looks very BMW-ish. But anyway, I love that little vent, and that's one of

01:30:52 ◼   ► the reasons I got the M5 is I love that little vent so much. I will say on this new M3 and

01:30:56 ◼   ► M4, I don't love it as much. I agree that it doesn't really fit in that well. It's not,

01:31:03 ◼   ► Like the way that little chrome piece is just kind of stuck on there, like the way it's

01:31:07 ◼   ► done on the 5, it's actually like wrapped, like the vent itself is trimmed in chrome

01:31:14 ◼   ► and like that's it.

01:31:16 ◼   ► This is like the vent itself is just made of metal and they like stuck a chrome thing

01:31:19 ◼   ► right in the middle of it instead.

01:31:20 ◼   ► I don't know, I'm not a big fan of that.

01:31:23 ◼   ► I don't think it makes the car look worse, but I don't think it makes it look better.

01:31:28 ◼   ► They should bring back the stealth style

01:31:31 ◼   ► that BMW used to have, where their fast cars--

01:31:34 ◼   ► and Mercedes had this back in the late '80s, early '90s--

01:31:37 ◼   ► where the high performance versions of the cars

01:31:39 ◼   ► looked very similar to the regular ones.

01:31:42 ◼   ► And you couldn't tell.

01:31:43 ◼   ► You'd blend in with traffic.

01:31:45 ◼   ► Basically, take this M3 and pop off those plastic bits

01:31:48 ◼   ► and put the boring plastic bits back on,

01:31:50 ◼   ► but still have it be an M3 underneath, right?

01:31:52 ◼   ► See, and what you're describing, in my personal opinion,

01:31:54 ◼   ► is the E39 M5, which is the early 2000s.

01:31:58 ◼   ► And I was discussing this with somebody on Twitter earlier today.

01:32:02 ◼   ► It is the pinnacle of understated power, you know, the kind of sleeper approach, which

01:32:07 ◼   ► was there were a couple of places where you could tell it was an M5.

01:32:10 ◼   ► The front air dam is a great example.

01:32:12 ◼   ► It was quad exhaust, which you never saw and still don't really see on BMWs unless it's

01:32:16 ◼   ► an M car.

01:32:17 ◼   ► But by and large, it didn't have like 350 M badges on it.

01:32:21 ◼   ► And even though I really do enjoy Marco's car and I think it's a fantastic automobile,

01:32:25 ◼   ► it has M's everywhere.

01:32:26 ◼   ► And it's kind of ridiculous.

01:32:28 ◼   ► And the E39 M5 was not like that.

01:32:30 ◼   ► And I, to this day, every great once in a while,

01:32:34 ◼   ► I'll go poking through AutoTrader,

01:32:35 ◼   ► telling myself I'm gonna get one,

01:32:37 ◼   ► and then I wuss out because they are so old now,

01:32:39 ◼   ► and so expensive to keep on the road.

01:32:42 ◼   ► But, oh man, it was the best.

01:32:44 ◼   ► - I also did, speaking of too many M logos everywhere,

01:32:47 ◼   ► I saw on one of these posts last night,

01:32:49 ◼   ► has it been confirmed that apparently there's a feature

01:32:52 ◼   ► where there's M logos on the back of the seats

01:32:54 ◼   ► that light up?

01:32:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, I read that and I haven't seen a picture,

01:32:58 ◼   ► And it's terrible.

01:32:59 ◼   ► And then they play engine noise out of them.

01:33:01 ◼   ► I mean, if that's a real feature, that's pretty bad.

01:33:05 ◼   ► Like that's...

01:33:06 ◼   ► Well, I can do worse.

01:33:07 ◼   ► I can do worse.

01:33:08 ◼   ► They have a... so there's launch control, which is that thing on your car that you've

01:33:11 ◼   ► never tried.

01:33:12 ◼   ► That's right.

01:33:13 ◼   ► But there's also, they have, and I'm going to get the name wrong, but it's something

01:33:16 ◼   ► as lame as "Smokey Burnout Mode."

01:33:19 ◼   ► Yeah, what is that?

01:33:20 ◼   ► It's like launch control, but they do not try to get traction.

01:33:24 ◼   ► Precisely.

01:33:25 ◼   ► No, I'm not kidding.

01:33:26 ◼   ► Really?

01:33:27 ◼   ► Oh my god.

01:33:28 ◼   ► So this way if you want to do like a, if you want to be a total hooligan and show off a

01:33:33 ◼   ► little bit and roast your $1500 tires or whatever they are, you can put it in smokey burnout

01:33:38 ◼   ► mode and it will let you do a burnout of some magnitude.

01:33:43 ◼   ► Can't you just turn off the traction control and stomp on the gas?

01:33:46 ◼   ► Isn't that effectively the same thing?

01:33:48 ◼   ► One would think, especially in a stick you can just dump the clutch when the engine's

01:33:52 ◼   ► at 2000 RPM which is like 8 million torques.

01:33:55 ◼   ► Oh, it works in a DCT too.

01:33:57 ◼   ► Oh, that's true.

01:33:58 ◼   ► Well, in reverse, as we found out on the snow.

01:34:02 ◼   ► But anyway, yes, so there's a smokey burnout mode.

01:34:04 ◼   ► And it was funny because I believe Ford just announced this for the Mustang.

01:34:09 ◼   ► And so BMW has also come out with this.

01:34:12 ◼   ► It's appropriate for the Mustang.

01:34:13 ◼   ► The Mustang is supposed to do a smokey burnout.

01:34:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:34:17 ◼   ► But anyway, I just wanted to bring it up because I think—

01:34:19 ◼   ► Those are tacky features.

01:34:21 ◼   ► They kind of are.

01:34:22 ◼   ► Launch control I can understand.

01:34:24 ◼   ► Because in the same Brian, in his R32, he had launch control, which he had done a launch

01:34:29 ◼   ► control launch, if that's not redundant, once or twice with me in the car.

01:34:34 ◼   ► And so the R32 was this Volkswagen with the V6 in it and a Hal-Dex all-wheel drive system.

01:34:40 ◼   ► And I tell you what, when he did a launch control launch, it was something incredible.

01:34:45 ◼   ► I mean, you were getting shot out of a cannon because it was all-wheel drive and it had

01:34:50 ◼   ► a decent amount of torque.

01:34:51 ◼   ► it wasn't stupidly heavy, and so it was quick.

01:34:55 ◼   ► But I should go back a step and mention that the Smokey Burnout Mode, in every spelling

01:34:58 ◼   ► I've seen, it's S-M-O-K-E-Y, which just makes it even worse.

01:35:02 ◼   ► Maybe they mean the bear.

01:35:04 ◼   ► Yeah, who knows?

01:35:05 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:35:06 ◼   ► It's just terrible.

01:35:07 ◼   ► But anyway, all in all, the M3, in principle, having never seen one in real life, having

01:35:12 ◼   ► only read things on the internets, gets two very enthusiastic thumbs up from me.

01:35:18 ◼   ► Do we know, has anybody reviewed the steering yet?

01:35:20 ◼   ► 'Cause it has electric power steering,

01:35:22 ◼   ► and everyone hates electric power steering so far.

01:35:24 ◼   ► And they say that in this one they fixed it,

01:35:27 ◼   ► and now it's like, now it has enough feedback

01:35:29 ◼   ► and responsiveness, but I don't think a reviewer

01:35:32 ◼   ► has actually driven one and evaluated that yet.

01:35:35 ◼   ► - I don't think so.

01:35:35 ◼   ► - The car driver drove the M4.

01:35:38 ◼   ► I don't remember they said anything significant

01:35:39 ◼   ► about the steering, but I think they said

01:35:41 ◼   ► that they overall they liked it,

01:35:42 ◼   ► but it was just a first impression thing.

01:35:43 ◼   ► But that's how you'll know, because car drivers

01:35:45 ◼   ► been slamming the steering on the electric power steering, and being on these in particular,

01:35:50 ◼   ► like a scorned lover, because Car and Driver has been the magazine that for decades has

01:35:54 ◼   ► been like, "Oh, BMW wins every comparison," and just in this current generation when they

01:35:58 ◼   ► brought out the electrical power steering everywhere, that they've been all pissy about

01:36:01 ◼   ► it. So I'll let you know when I get that Car and Driver if they finally brought them back

01:36:06 ◼   ► around, but right now they're very cranky about it.

01:36:09 ◼   ► I've never driven an EPS system that was good.

01:36:13 ◼   ► And my current car does not have that.

01:36:16 ◼   ► And my current car has hydraulic steering.

01:36:18 ◼   ► And all the other 5 Serieses have EPS.

01:36:23 ◼   ► The M5 does not.

01:36:24 ◼   ► It still has hydraulic.

01:36:25 ◼   ► Car and Driver hates your car for other reasons, though.

01:36:27 ◼   ► That's true. That's fine.

01:36:28 ◼   ► And some of them I agree with, and most of them I don't.

01:36:32 ◼   ► But I'm like, this is going to be my John Gruber keyboard.

01:36:36 ◼   ► board. Like, I'm going to hold onto this forever until somebody makes, like, one that's actually,

01:36:41 ◼   ► you know, that matches this somehow, which might never happen.

01:36:43 ◼   ► Yeah, you would think, like, if not the second generation by the third try, all the car makers

01:36:48 ◼   ► will have gotten it by their third try, I assume. Because, like, it's all the same,

01:36:52 ◼   ► like, they all use ZF transmissions, like, whoever is supplying these electrical power

01:36:57 ◼   ► assist things plus whatever program they figure out, they'll figure out. Just take a couple

01:37:00 ◼   ► generations.

01:37:01 ◼   ► Now, does TIFF's new car, does that have electric steering? It does, doesn't it?

01:37:06 ◼   ► only does it have it, but she noticed it on the very first drive, on the drive home from

01:37:10 ◼   ► the dealership. After taking that drive, she asked me, she's like, "You know, the steering

01:37:14 ◼   ► feels kind of weird. It's like it's not taking any effort, and it doesn't really quite feel

01:37:19 ◼   ► right. It feels like it's steering almost too much around certain tight corners, because

01:37:23 ◼   ► you're just instantly there and it doesn't feel right."

01:37:26 ◼   ► Just wait until they do drive-by-wire, because Nissan, I think, has a drive-by-wire system.

01:37:30 ◼   ► A couple of makers have drive-by-wire things, so that's going to be even weirder. So that's

01:37:33 ◼   ► It's like they'll probably get the electrical assisted power steering working OK, but then

01:37:37 ◼   ► everyone will switch over again to drive-by-wire, and then we'll have to go through another

01:37:40 ◼   ► three generations of that feeling weird.

01:37:42 ◼   ► So anyway, so yeah, so this, I just wanted to bring it up.

01:37:46 ◼   ► I think it's really awesome.

01:37:47 ◼   ► Now Marco, you had briefly said that you might consider an M3 as your next car.

01:37:53 ◼   ► If you know, obviously it's a few years out, but just hypothetically, are you still

01:37:57 ◼   ► thinking that's the case based on what little you know so far?

01:38:00 ◼   ► I would really have to drive one first to really say.

01:38:03 ◼   ► Sure, absolutely.

01:38:04 ◼   ► Now that I've seen, so I've been in Tiff's car, Tiff just got her 3GT and it's fantastic

01:38:10 ◼   ► for everything that we needed her car to be and she loves it and it's really nice.

01:38:15 ◼   ► I will say I'm very jealous of two features that it has that were not available on my

01:38:19 ◼   ► car, the automatic high beam thing and radar cruise control.

01:38:24 ◼   ► Both of those I thought might be gimmicky and useless.

01:38:27 ◼   ► And they just were not available on the M5, which is

01:38:29 ◼   ► unfortunate.

01:38:30 ◼   ► So that being said, having driven a 5 Series for all

01:38:36 ◼   ► these months and going back to the 3 Series for a couple of

01:38:39 ◼   ► drives that we've taken with her car together, I actually

01:38:42 ◼   ► missed a lot of the 5 Series luxuries.

01:38:45 ◼   ► And I didn't think I would.

01:38:47 ◼   ► But the 5 Series is more substantial, more luxurious in

01:38:51 ◼   ► a few ways.

01:38:51 ◼   ► And I really did miss that difference when I was driving

01:38:54 ◼   ► and I really did miss that difference when I was driving her car.

01:38:57 ◼   ► It's still a very nice car and compared to almost anything else on the road,

01:39:02 ◼   ► it's fantastic and fairly luxurious, but there is a difference and it would in some ways be a step down.

01:39:09 ◼   ► You know, it's like John stepping down his monitor size.

01:39:13 ◼   ► So that would hurt a little bit.

01:39:16 ◼   ► The big thing though is that I'm just so incredibly happy with the M5.

01:39:21 ◼   ► I really am. I was telling this privately, but I'll tell it for the air because I didn't say it yet, that

01:39:27 ◼   ► you know the M cars, like most BMWs and like many cars, are on like a seven year

01:39:32 ◼   ► generation life cycle roughly.

01:39:35 ◼   ► And so I have this on a three year lease. At the end of the lease,

01:39:40 ◼   ► it's not going to be the new generation yet. It's still going to be like two years before the generation switchover probably.

01:39:45 ◼   ► So I

01:39:47 ◼   ► don't know what to do at the end of this lease.

01:39:50 ◼   ► I'm like if I it would be stupid to just get a new one just like the one I have

01:39:54 ◼   ► Like that would be incredibly wasteful and costly and you know just wouldn't really make sense

01:39:59 ◼   ► I'm probably just gonna buy this one out at the end of the lease and then wait until the new one comes out and then trade

01:40:04 ◼   ► It into a new lease because I like it so much

01:40:07 ◼   ► It really is perfect for me, and and I have no major complaints at all unless the new one is ugly

01:40:14 ◼   ► That's the other thing you know

01:40:15 ◼   ► The new one could be ugly. That's true it very well could be but

01:40:19 ◼   ► But I'm betting the next M5 has all-wheel drive.

01:40:24 ◼   ► I would be almost certain it will have it--

01:40:27 ◼   ► I don't think it'll be standard, but I bet it will be available.

01:40:31 ◼   ► Yeah, you say that, but watch.

01:40:33 ◼   ► Just watch.

01:40:34 ◼   ► It'll weigh 5,000 pounds.

01:40:36 ◼   ► It already does.

01:40:37 ◼   ► It's not 5,000.

01:40:38 ◼   ► It's like 44 or something.

01:40:40 ◼   ► It's 43.

01:40:41 ◼   ► I was going to say, my car's over 3,500.

01:40:43 ◼   ► And this is like-- they don't use a lot.

01:40:47 ◼   ► I don't even know if they use any carbon fiber in the M5 today.

01:40:51 ◼   ► The new M3 makes extensive use of carbon fiber in lots of different places.

01:40:56 ◼   ► So they were focused on weight savings for the new M3.

01:41:00 ◼   ► Now they're developing the new 7 series, which is also using all this weight saving stuff.

01:41:06 ◼   ► After that, I bet they're ready to design the 5 series with the same weight saving stuff,

01:41:10 ◼   ► and then they do the M5.

01:41:11 ◼   ► So I'm guessing that's going to be one of their focuses for the new one, is saving a

01:41:16 ◼   ► a bunch of weight and maybe it won't be like,

01:41:19 ◼   ► it's not gonna be a thousand pounds,

01:41:21 ◼   ► but maybe it'll be two or three hundred.

01:41:23 ◼   ► It's gonna be enough to make a difference.

01:41:25 ◼   ► And I think they have to add all-wheel drive

01:41:27 ◼   ► because already it has more power

01:41:30 ◼   ► than it can really put down on the road at low speed.

01:41:33 ◼   ► Like they need more places to put this power.

01:41:36 ◼   ► The engine's generating so much power,

01:41:38 ◼   ► like it just can't use it all properly.

01:41:41 ◼   ► - Well, with that said, you had the car out

01:41:43 ◼   ► at least in the driveway in the snow.

01:41:45 ◼   ► Did you take it past the end of the driveway?

01:41:47 ◼   ► - I did, yeah, I did.

01:41:48 ◼   ► In fact, so I discussed on neutral this situation

01:41:52 ◼   ► where I got stuck in the 1M a year ago,

01:41:55 ◼   ► where I tried taking it out in really slippery,

01:41:58 ◼   ► packed slush ice conditions,

01:42:00 ◼   ► and I got stuck in a grocery store parking lot.

01:42:03 ◼   ► Well, this year, I have the M5,

01:42:05 ◼   ► and I have snow tires for the very first time.

01:42:07 ◼   ► The 1M had its all season, or sorry, its summer tires on,

01:42:12 ◼   ► that not only were they summer tires,

01:42:13 ◼   ► were also pretty bald by that point,

01:42:15 ◼   ► so they were really worn down summer times,

01:42:18 ◼   ► so they had no grip at all.

01:42:20 ◼   ► So I got stuck in this parking lot

01:42:21 ◼   ► and couldn't move and it was awful.

01:42:23 ◼   ► So I went out with my winter tires

01:42:26 ◼   ► for the first time in this car, in our first snowfall.

01:42:28 ◼   ► We've only gotten two inches of snow,

01:42:30 ◼   ► but I went out at the worst of it

01:42:32 ◼   ► to try to test this out to see how bad it is.

01:42:34 ◼   ► So I went out, I took my car down

01:42:37 ◼   ► to the exact same grocery store parking lot.

01:42:39 ◼   ► It was similar conditions, but not as bad.

01:42:43 ◼   ► parking lot, but you would still be hitting pavement

01:42:47 ◼   ► most of the time.

01:42:47 ◼   ► So I can't say for sure if it's a huge difference yet.

01:42:50 ◼   ► But I tried lots of things.

01:42:51 ◼   ► I tried stopping short.

01:42:53 ◼   ► I tried turning tightly.

01:42:54 ◼   ► I tried pushing the gas a little too aggressively to see

01:42:58 ◼   ► if I'd spin around at all, or at least trigger the traction

01:43:01 ◼   ► control light.

01:43:02 ◼   ► And it was just like driving on dry pavement.

01:43:05 ◼   ► It was shockingly good.

01:43:07 ◼   ► It was a massive difference compared to the

01:43:10 ◼   ► massive difference compared to the bald summer tires.

01:43:14 ◼   ► Having brand new winter tires on a car with a more advanced

01:43:19 ◼   ► differential and a little better balance and a lot more

01:43:22 ◼   ► weight made a huge difference.

01:43:24 ◼   ► So, so far I'm pretty confident this is actually

01:43:26 ◼   ► gonna work out pretty well.

01:43:28 ◼   ► - I'm gonna choose not to be smug about this yet,

01:43:31 ◼   ► because I believe you and I went back and forth

01:43:33 ◼   ► about this forever, and just like you always end up

01:43:35 ◼   ► convincing me and I always end up being glad that you did,

01:43:40 ◼   ► So far it sounds like I might have convinced you the right way, but I don't want to count

01:43:44 ◼   ► my chickens quite yet.

01:43:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I think you're right. I think, you know, let's wait until the rest of the winter

01:43:49 ◼   ► happens and, like, wait till I have to deal with way worse conditions than that to see

01:43:54 ◼   ► really for sure, like, you know, was this a huge mistake to not get all-wheel drive?

01:43:59 ◼   ► But so far I'm very pleased with them. But again, it's, there was only, you know, one

01:44:04 ◼   ► snowstorm and it was fairly mild. So it's hard to say yet.

01:44:08 ◼   ► All right, so after much delay, because I had to be a total BMW fanboy with an eye,

01:44:15 ◼   ► John, what's some more accord complaints?

01:44:18 ◼   ► We talked about what?

01:44:19 ◼   ► Key fobs last time.

01:44:20 ◼   ► What else did we talk about?

01:44:22 ◼   ► I don't recall.

01:44:23 ◼   ► The stalks, the headrests, yeah.

01:44:26 ◼   ► Here's a question that I hadn't thought about until I got the new car.

01:44:28 ◼   ► Where in the car should the dead pedal be?

01:44:34 ◼   ► Is there an option?

01:44:35 ◼   ► It should be all the way on the left, probably against the side of the car, and it should

01:44:41 ◼   ► be flat, and it should be about the size of your foot.

01:44:45 ◼   ► How far away should it be?

01:44:46 ◼   ► From the clutch?

01:44:47 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:44:48 ◼   ► No, I don't mean horizontally, I mean distance from the seat.

01:44:52 ◼   ► Oh, it should be like you should be able to rest on it as if you were resting on the pedal,

01:44:58 ◼   ► but not pressed at all.

01:44:59 ◼   ► I would agree with that.

01:45:01 ◼   ► See, my previous Accord, and I think the previous Civics as well, had the dead pedal at the

01:45:07 ◼   ► distance from you where the clutch is like partially depressed.

01:45:11 ◼   ► So it was basically, if the clutch is totally up, the dead pedal is past where it is.

01:45:15 ◼   ► And I found that much more comfortable because I have long legs, to rest my foot on something

01:45:19 ◼   ► that's farther back than the totally untouched clutch pedal.

01:45:24 ◼   ► And the new Accord, the dead pedal is, as you described it, is basically the same distance

01:45:28 ◼   ► from the seat as the untouched clutch or the brake pad or whatever, kind of in that same

01:45:33 ◼   ► plane of pedals, and that feels way too close to me.

01:45:36 ◼   ► And part of that is that all the pedals feel too close, they're not adjustable and the

01:45:40 ◼   ► steering wheel doesn't telescope, so my choice is, and plus I have the seat back, lean back

01:45:45 ◼   ► and everything, I feel like my knees are squished up a little bit, because if I move the seat

01:45:50 ◼   ► back so that my knees aren't squished up like that, then I feel like the steering wheel

01:45:53 ◼   ► is too far away, because the seat back is pushed back so much.

01:45:56 ◼   ► cars are not made, I mean they're made for big Americans, maybe they're not made for

01:45:59 ◼   ► 6'2" people or whatever, but the dead pedal in particular, and the pedal distance is probably

01:46:04 ◼   ► not that bad, but the dead pedal in particular just feels way too close, and it's because

01:46:06 ◼   ► of what I'm used to, I'm used to all my other Hondas where the dead pedal was farther back

01:46:11 ◼   ► than the untouched clutch pedal, so it's not the end of the world, but it's there, and

01:46:14 ◼   ► you know, I feel like it could have been fixed either with adjustable pedals, which a lot

01:46:18 ◼   ► of American cars are offering, which I think are a great idea, you know, because then you

01:46:20 ◼   ► can make, it's ergonomically better to have adjustable pedals and adjustable steering

01:46:25 ◼   ► columns so then small people and big people can find a good position.

01:46:28 ◼   ► Or at the very least a telescoping wheel, but I don't have yet a...

01:46:31 ◼   ► It is a tilting wheel and I will give Honda props for finally making a car where I can

01:46:37 ◼   ► adjust the steering wheel so that I can see all the gauges through the little half moon

01:46:41 ◼   ► shape that the steering wheel makes.

01:46:42 ◼   ► Because if you're very tall, inevitably the steering wheel cuts off like the top of the

01:46:47 ◼   ► speedometer or whatever thing is at the top.

01:46:50 ◼   ► This one I can see all the gauges exactly through the thing when I tilt the wheel to

01:46:53 ◼   ► the correct position.

01:46:54 ◼   ► So that's nice.

01:46:56 ◼   ► Now Marco and I learned-- well, Marco, you probably

01:46:59 ◼   ► learned this at your first event.

01:47:00 ◼   ► But Marco and Underscore and I learned at the BMW thing

01:47:04 ◼   ► we went to that the correct distance from the wheel

01:47:07 ◼   ► is that if you put your arms straight out

01:47:09 ◼   ► and you rest your wrists on the top of the steering wheel,

01:47:13 ◼   ► you should be able to flop your hands down.

01:47:16 ◼   ► I don't know if that was the best way of describing it.

01:47:18 ◼   ► But basically, you should be able to put your wrists

01:47:21 ◼   ► on the top of the wheel without being terribly uncomfortable.

01:47:24 ◼   ► and that's how far away you should be from the wheel.

01:47:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the seat back, see the thing is like,

01:47:28 ◼   ► I'm already farther away than that,

01:47:30 ◼   ► and a lot of it has to do with the seat back position,

01:47:32 ◼   ► because I have to tilt it back because of the headrest,

01:47:34 ◼   ► and also because, you know, if I start sitting

01:47:37 ◼   ► a more upright in my hair, my head starts to get closer

01:47:39 ◼   ► to the ceiling and all that other stuff.

01:47:40 ◼   ► So I think my hands are already farther away than that.

01:47:43 ◼   ► If I put my shoulder blades against the back of the seat,

01:47:45 ◼   ► and I should, you know, push my shoulders back and say,

01:47:47 ◼   ► okay, now I'm fully in the seat, put my hands forward,

01:47:50 ◼   ► I don't know, I'll have to measure it in the car tomorrow.

01:47:52 ◼   ► The driving position, it feels okay,

01:47:53 ◼   ► just the pedals feel a little bit close.