36: A Weird One


00:00:00   When a Skype call begins, I'm against saying hello.

00:00:04   [laughter]

00:00:06   Because that makes it like a telephone.

00:00:08   We're bringing all of the traditions of the crappy previous generation communication system to the new one.

00:00:15   I could pick up the phone to say hello, but Skype, it should be like "I am."

00:00:19   You don't begin every "I am" conversation with people that you know with a greeting or something or a hello.

00:00:24   Well, if you're an a**, you start an "I am" conversation with "YT?"

00:00:29   What does that stand for?

00:00:30   You there?

00:00:31   You didn't know that?

00:00:32   No, if anyone did that to me, I would be like, "What are you doing?"

00:00:36   Yeah, it's terrible.

00:00:37   It's like people saying "Hello" on Skype, but it's worse.

00:00:40   Here's worse than YT.

00:00:41   Your name with a question mark.

00:00:43   That is the worst way to begin an IAM conversation.

00:00:45   No, disagree.

00:00:46   It has to be YT.

00:00:47   No, your name with a question mark is the worst, trust me.

00:00:49   I've had them all done to me except for YT, but if I were to—

00:00:52   See?

00:00:53   No, because YT is like—yes, it's terrible, but it's better than "Casey?"

00:00:57   Like, what is the...

00:01:00   Yes!

00:01:01   You know who your I am!

00:01:02   Casey?

00:01:03   Are you there?

00:01:04   I mean, it's almost the same as you there, but the Casey, it's like, "Casey?"

00:01:07   Is this Casey?

00:01:08   No, it's like...

00:01:09   Who would I I am?

00:01:11   Casey, I'm expecting something from you, and I can't believe I'm not getting it.

00:01:17   Do we want to talk about the event, or do we want to just dive straight into the review?

00:01:20   Because I'm thinking, let's just say, "Screw the event, let's talk about the review."

00:01:23   Wait, hold on.

00:01:24   There's a lot in the event, though.

00:01:26   I think we should do the event because it's more timely. The review is not going anywhere.

00:01:30   And the review is part of the event because one of the things I talk about in the event

00:01:33   is Mavericks, and so I think we should do the event. And I say this even though I've

00:01:38   only seen half of the event, but I more or less know what happened.

00:01:42   I think we can fit both. We have a long show. Let's just be honest. This is going to be

00:01:46   a long show.

00:01:47   All right. Let's talk about the review. Do you want to cue the piano background music?

00:01:52   [Music]

00:01:53   I thought we were starting with the event. We just agreed to do both.

00:01:56   Sorry, I said review, I meant event.

00:01:58   I'm tired too.

00:02:00   You guys gotta get on your game here.

00:02:01   I know, I gotta put on my game case.

00:02:03   Have an extra cup of coffee or whiskey or whatever it is that you two have.

00:02:05   I have water! I'm pulling a John for God's sakes. All I have is water. Maybe that's the problem.

00:02:10   Maybe you need a Sprite.

00:02:11   Yeah, you need the extra sugar.

00:02:13   That's it. All right, let me let me try this all over again.

00:02:16   So, why don't we talk about the event? And now Marco, you can cue the silly piano music.

00:02:22   So what what did you think John of the parts that you saw?

00:02:24   Well, my first question probably was did either one of you or both of you see the whole event?

00:02:29   Yes, we actually live stream or not live

00:02:32   We we did a no spoilers policy between ourselves at the track that day and yesterday. I guess it was right. Yeah, and

00:02:39   We we didn't check Twitter or anything. I don't even check my email. I in fact my phone vibrated in my pocket once

00:02:46   I didn't even check to see the notification

00:02:48   I just didn't care.

00:02:49   It can't be anything important.

00:02:51   And then in the car on the way back, we'd already pre-subscribed to the keynote podcast

00:02:56   on our phones so that we wouldn't even have to go to Apple's website or find the feed.

00:03:02   We downloaded the recording of it from the keynote feed on the drive back to Richmond,

00:03:09   so on this five-hour drive, downloaded the video of it, and watched it and streamed it

00:03:14   over the car speakers.

00:03:15   So, yeah, so I didn't see the first two-thirds of the video at that point because I happened

00:03:20   to be driving at the time, and then Underscore didn't see the iPad portion of the video

00:03:24   because he was driving afterwards, but I did rewatch the whole thing this evening and finished

00:03:30   your entire review and read the blog post about the review. So I did a lot of prep for

00:03:35   the podcast that's not supposed to have any prep.

00:03:37   Wow.

00:03:38   I just want to clarify for the listeners, by the way, when they say they were at the

00:03:40   track, they weren't betting on horses.

00:03:44   In case anyone suspected that that was the most likely explanation of that phrase from

00:03:48   me and Casey.

00:03:49   You know what the idle rich do.

00:03:51   Go to the track, bet on the ponies.

00:03:54   Yeah, so we all did see it in some capacity.

00:03:56   All right, so I'm the only one who missed part of it, and the reason I missed most of

00:04:00   it is because as soon as I said it was available today, I had to stop watching, stop listening,

00:04:05   and start doing the things I knew I needed to do.

00:04:07   All right, now really quickly to interrupt, were you at home or at work when this was

00:04:11   going on?

00:04:12   I was at home.

00:04:13   So you knew enough to plan for the inevitable possibility that you might have a busy afternoon.

00:04:18   Yep.

00:04:19   Now, so were you like—was it one of those things where you were like, "I may or may

00:04:23   not work this afternoon," or did you just say, like, two weeks—or a week ago, I guess,

00:04:28   Tuesday afternoon, "I'm going to need that off because stuff's going to go crazy"?

00:04:31   Well, I mean, it basically worked out to just be a late lunch because, like, ours actually

00:04:37   held the review.

00:04:38   They held it until the event was over because that's usually what Apple does in terms of,

00:04:41   Like, you know, things don't go on sale until the event is over, store doesn't come back

00:04:44   up, whatever.

00:04:45   So the review was ready to go within minutes of—everything was ready to go within minutes

00:04:51   of them announcing the price and that it was available today.

00:04:55   And then it was just a matter of holding it until the event is over, and then it goes

00:04:57   up.

00:04:59   So that's really all it took of my day at that point.

00:05:01   And then after work, it was just the deluge of a million emails, tweets, and everything

00:05:06   else.

00:05:08   So it was a full day.

00:05:10   The actual publishing, I was well prepared.

00:05:12   I had everything ready to go for everything that was announced.

00:05:16   I was not surprised by anything.

00:05:17   Everything worked as well as could be expected.

00:05:19   Maybe in a show or two from now, we can go through the blow-by-blow of all the different

00:05:23   moving parts and how it went better this year than last year.

00:05:26   But I think that's more of a meta topic.

00:05:29   Now, I don't know if you want to get into this at this moment, but did you have any

00:05:34   of the pricing options already in the review, or did you just have a big blank space?

00:05:39   I had something ready to publish which said the price isn't known.

00:05:43   I mean, that's what I pushed up to the iBook store with the version that was ready to go

00:05:49   at any moment.

00:05:50   You can say, yes, I can publish this right now.

00:05:51   It basically didn't have information about the price.

00:05:54   It didn't assert that any price was the price just as we don't know what it is, but I think

00:05:58   it's going to be this and blah, blah, blah.

00:06:00   And that version had a graph of the price, and instead of the graph going down to zero

00:06:05   10.9, it was a light gray line going down to zero with a question mark on it. But the

00:06:10   graph still went to zero. Like, that was my guess. But the text said, "We don't know."

00:06:15   And so I had the free version all ready to go, free, paste, paste, paste, paste, paste,

00:06:18   on the, you know, upload, and there it went.

00:06:22   So I did a very good job of steering us to the review we didn't want to talk about.

00:06:25   So about the event.

00:06:28   I think it was interesting that—was it just me, or did all the speakers seem a little

00:06:34   bit sloppier than usual. I completely agree.

00:06:37   A lot of people are saying that, and I'm only up to Eddy Cue at this point, whose clothing

00:06:40   was a little crazy. But up to that point, they seemed fine. Like, not… I don't think they

00:06:48   were off their game as much as everyone said. I think it's not that they were off, because

00:06:51   they always stumble over stuff. It was that the atmosphere in the room, which is hard to tell me

00:06:56   you're not there, so we really talked to someone who was actually there, but the atmosphere in the

00:06:59   room seemed like there wasn't any electricity in terms of excitement about anything, and

00:07:05   the presenters weren't able to muster enthusiasm about the announcements, and the audience

00:07:09   wasn't feeding it back to them, so it was just kind of like going through the motions

00:07:13   of announcing things quickly through slides or whatever.

00:07:17   But I don't blame the people who presented.

00:07:20   It's just, I mean, maybe there was not anything that exciting.

00:07:24   For example, imagine if the Mac Pro had not been announced with WWDC.

00:07:28   it would have been a very different vibe in that room with the exact same announcements.

00:07:31   You know what I mean? Just because nothing there was a surprise, really, to anybody.

00:07:36   Right. Yeah, pretty much everything. If everyone took their best guesses as to what was going

00:07:39   to be announced, that was exactly what was announced, and really nothing more than that.

00:07:44   It was like, "All right, everyone's best guesses. What do you think it is?" And then

00:07:48   it was just that. Yeah, and it really hurts you when you have

00:07:50   parts of the event that you've told people about before. You've told people about Mavericks.

00:07:55   We're going to go through it again. You've told people about this Mac Pro, which is awesome

00:07:58   everything we're going to go through again. And even stuff like the new MacBook Pros,

00:08:02   well, we already had a line of Haswell computers, so the Haswell excitement of "Wow, look at

00:08:06   this battery life" is already there. There was so little that it was new, and those ones

00:08:11   where you're going over stuff that everybody already knows that you yourself told them

00:08:14   previously, that just kills the energy, I think, of the presentation. But thus far in

00:08:20   watching, I don't think it was bad, it was just kind of like, "Meh." The products they're

00:08:23   announcing, I'm looking at the products and I'm going, "This is a good product." And now

00:08:26   I'm looking at the videos. This video of the Mac Pro is being made. This is a cool video.

00:08:30   Like thumbs up all around, but having known so much beforehand and so much of having been

00:08:35   announced beforehand really undercuts the excitement.

00:08:38   Yeah, and I think it was weird too that they spent so much time on the iOS 7 goofy video

00:08:46   about their design philosophy, which, okay, that's nice, but we've seen that twice or

00:08:50   three times already. Because didn't they use it at the iPhone event also?

00:08:53   Yeah, you can't keep going back to that video. It's a nice video. It's a good video, but

00:08:56   How many times can you use it?

00:08:57   It would be like showing the,

00:08:59   I mean, the only way they kinda got away with that

00:09:00   is they showed Think Different a lot.

00:09:02   That kind of works because it was more abstract,

00:09:05   and this is more concrete,

00:09:06   and it seems more tied to iOS 7,

00:09:08   and it's got the words that you read and everything,

00:09:10   and it's just kind of like,

00:09:11   you can't, I hope they don't show that again.

00:09:14   - Yeah, I think they've driven it into the ground.

00:09:17   But also, a lot of the time was videos

00:09:20   and fairly boring demos.

00:09:23   It seemed like a, they did have a lot to announce,

00:09:26   But the pacing seemed a little bit slow to me.

00:09:28   And I know it's always a little bit slow

00:09:29   because it's mainly for the press.

00:09:31   And it's Tim Cook talking.

00:09:32   But still, the pacing of the whole thing

00:09:35   seemed especially slow this time.

00:09:37   And it seemed like they were less prepared.

00:09:41   Maybe they had rehearsed less than usual.

00:09:43   And they were less comfortable.

00:09:45   You're right that part of it was a lack of excitement

00:09:47   because they weren't really announcing anything

00:09:50   surprisingly dramatically new.

00:09:53   But part of it was also, I think,

00:09:56   it almost seemed like they were a little more uptight, maybe.

00:10:00   Because when they would stumble over what was obviously

00:10:04   a scripted line that was made to sound unscripted,

00:10:07   rather than just rolling with the mistake they made,

00:10:09   they would go back and re-say what they were supposed

00:10:12   to say the first time.

00:10:13   They would just retry the failed line.

00:10:16   I thought the same thing.

00:10:18   It was kind of awkward.

00:10:19   It felt very stiff to me.

00:10:21   I'll have to keep watching because I'm only updating queue at this point.

00:10:24   Although one thing that I noticed about it was that you say it went slow.

00:10:28   I felt a lot of the demos, especially the software demos that I had seen, like up to

00:10:31   the point of GarageBand, seemed rushed.

00:10:35   And in the way that, because if you're used to the Steve Jobs era, he would have done

00:10:39   the same presentation, but he would have picked like either one application or like a couple

00:10:45   features of two applications and just spent what seems like way too long if you were looking

00:10:49   at the stopwatch.

00:10:50   would get obsessed with like, I mean, imagine he had picked like the slow motion feature

00:10:55   in iMovie or the drums or something. He would do these in-depth demos of some obscure feature

00:10:59   that like tickles his fancy and he would be there. But the thing is, if you look at the

00:11:03   clock, like he's going to sit there and play with the slow motion feature in five minutes.

00:11:06   Are you kidding me? But it was, he was so obviously so jazzed about this feature that

00:11:11   he was showing. It was almost like watching a kid who was like really excited about that.

00:11:14   Oh yeah, I got to show you my toy. Look, check this thing out. And that enthusiasm as corny

00:11:19   as it might be. You could connect with it. And he would go in depth about one obscure

00:11:25   feature. And this would seem like, "Oh, we've got these things. Look at this, and this does

00:11:28   this, and this does that." Even the one they tried to go in depth with, "Look, you can

00:11:30   use drummers and go like this. Isn't that cool?" But when he says, "Isn't that cool?"

00:11:34   Steve Jobs would be closing his eyes and getting into it and going like Marco does with fish,

00:11:38   I imagine, with his fancy headphones on. And he would really get into it. And you may not

00:11:45   be into it, but you could say you were convinced that Steve Jobs was really into like whatever

00:11:50   it was, even if it was like, look at the wood on these amp cases in this UI. That was missing

00:11:56   because these people were just like, go through the features, show them one after the other,

00:12:00   maybe go a little bit in depth with this, but none of them, again, thus far up to any

00:12:03   queue, have been able to convince me that they are obsessively in love with any aspect

00:12:09   of these programs.

00:12:10   Yeah, I thought the Q demo was rough. It was something that was supposed to be cutesy and funny,

00:12:17   but was neither cutesy nor funny. Like with his album cover or whatever it was, or band poster

00:12:25   call, specifically what it was. Oftentimes Apple will do something that, yeah, it's lame,

00:12:30   but it's kind of adorably lame. Whereas this was just straight up lame in my opinion. And I thought

00:12:36   it was awkward, I think Eddie was trying too hard to be funny, and I don't blame him for

00:12:42   that.

00:12:43   But I don't know, where Craig can be the nerd and generally speaking be funny, with the

00:12:48   exception of, what was the line, I actually wrote it down, "We want to go door to door

00:12:52   with a bag of hearts."

00:12:53   Huh?

00:12:55   What?

00:12:57   That was early on when he was talking about how nerds will make everyone happy by writing

00:13:01   code.

00:13:02   But generally speaking, I think Craig does a very good job with the cutesy funny and

00:13:06   the kind of lame funny.

00:13:09   And I don't think Eddie does well with that at all, and I thought his demo was very rough.

00:13:12   Yeah, you can only do so much with the material you have.

00:13:15   I mean, think about it, WWDC.

00:13:17   Like this is the first time we're seeing iOS 7, and there was a mixture of shock and discomfort

00:13:24   because it was like, remember when we first saw iOS 7 up there with those crazy icons

00:13:27   and the video was cool and they show us these screens that we'd never seen before and we

00:13:30   shows these icons and no one knows what to think, the whole room is going nuts.

00:13:33   And the Mac Pro, same type of thing, like what the hell is this?

00:13:36   It's a circle and they show it next to the Mac Pro.

00:13:38   Like being knocked, being hit from the side in an unexpected direction, being knocked

00:13:44   off kilter, even when it's in a bad way when people are like, "Oh God, what the hell is

00:13:47   up with this iOS 7 thing?"

00:13:49   That makes for a memorable, interesting experience.

00:13:53   And they didn't have any of that here.

00:13:55   So all you're left with is, say you got a really good shucking jive guide to do a more

00:13:59   polished delivery on these same products, I don't think it would have come off any better.

00:14:03   And I think the things they announced are good. It's just that none of them knocked

00:14:08   us on our ear like a couple of the past announcements have.

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00:16:43   So really quick real-time follow-up.

00:16:45   I'm told via the chat that it wasn't a bag of hearts, which is what I could swear I heard

00:16:50   on two different occasions, but Bag of Parts, which doesn't really make the joke any better

00:16:54   to me, but apparently I completely misheard that. And also the chat room says it is a

00:16:59   shoe, which is, you know, one victory for me in a long line of defeat when it comes

00:17:05   to the English language, so I'm going to hold onto that for a while. Anyway, you were

00:17:09   going to start walking through what they talked about.

00:17:12   Yes. I've wrote down a bunch of notes on everything. We'll see what's actually

00:17:16   to get to that I do want to save a lot of time for John.

00:17:20   Biggest thing-- so the Retina MacBook Pro update

00:17:22   was the first thing they did, right?

00:17:24   And it's not that interesting.

00:17:26   What's very interesting about it-- well,

00:17:28   what's kind of interesting about it

00:17:29   is the price drops all around.

00:17:30   The Retinas all saw a price drop of, I think,

00:17:33   $200 for the entry prices, which is really great.

00:17:36   I mean, because I don't think-- have they-- actually,

00:17:39   let me double check.

00:17:39   Did they update the non-pros at all yet?

00:17:41   Or probably not, right?

00:17:43   Yeah, it looks like they still offer just the 13.

00:17:46   The 15 is gone.

00:17:48   They offer just the 13 inch non-retino one

00:17:51   for only $100 less.

00:17:54   And it looks like it's using an old CPU.

00:17:57   So yeah.

00:17:58   So they still have it.

00:17:59   It's probably on its way out, or they're

00:18:00   going to keep it around for one more cycle.

00:18:01   Anyway, so $200 less on all the retinos

00:18:04   is really great, because this is really showing

00:18:06   they're serious about the retinos replacing the other ones.

00:18:08   The other ones are not going to be around for much time.

00:18:11   I wonder if they even cut their margins at all. It could be that their margins had gotten

00:18:16   large on those and they had the headroom to cut the price without hurting their margins,

00:18:20   because they've been pulling parts out of these things. SSDs are expensive and everything,

00:18:26   but they're smaller and simpler than hard drives, and they probably get good deals on

00:18:30   flash at this point. Just pulling out the optical drive, there's one part you don't

00:18:33   have to pay for at all, and all the stuff. And getting rid of buses that were there previously,

00:18:37   peripherals used to be connected to. Those buses where they're dangling, they can get rid of those.

00:18:42   What's inside these things is getting smaller and more stuff moving on to the CPU package with

00:18:46   the Haswell and everything. I wonder if these price drops are just maintaining the margins of

00:18:53   like two generations ago and they just figured, well, we can sell more of these if we just

00:19:01   maintain our current margins. And the best example that we'll get to later is like comparing contrast

00:19:07   with the iPad 2, which they did not do that with. But yeah, but the price drops, I mean,

00:19:12   that's the way it's supposed to work.

00:19:13   It's really good though. That means more people getting into retina screens. And that also

00:19:17   means that, you know, because the screens are exactly the same as they were already.

00:19:21   But I think this means that retina screens are getting cheaper, basically. And that's

00:19:25   really good for the rest of the line, getting retina screens, which we will also talk about

00:19:29   later.

00:19:30   Four gigabytes of RAM, though, standard on a couple of these models. It's no good.

00:19:34   Yeah, that's a little weak.

00:19:36   with integrated graphics, despite the maverick changes integrated graphics.

00:19:39   Yeah, there's that. There's also the compressed RAM, which I actually should ask you how well

00:19:43   that works in practice. I haven't actually read your review yet, sorry, I haven't had

00:19:46   time. But I'm going to read it tomorrow. Don't tell anybody. I do like that they finally

00:19:52   have a no-discrete GPU option on the 15, like we talked about in the past. What's interesting,

00:19:58   though, is that it doesn't appear to make any price difference whatsoever. If you actually

00:20:02   configure that they have two parts, like a low end and a high end line to start with.

00:20:07   You can configure the low end with all the options that the high end has except the GPU.

00:20:10   And if you configure it to match on the other specs, it's the exact same price,

00:20:15   regardless of whether it has the discrete GPU or not, which I think is kind of funny.

00:20:19   And the 13 doesn't get discrete at all. So if you look at the chart, it's like

00:20:23   integrated, integrated, integrated, integrated, and only at the very right-hand side of the tech

00:20:28   specs. They say, "Oh, and by the way, you can get a discrete." So the way it's presented is kind of

00:20:31   like the MacBook Pro only uses integrated graphics except for if you get the super-duper

00:20:36   high-end you can opt for the apparently no-cost discrete.

00:20:39   Right, exactly. Although the 13 never had it. But yeah, that's a very good point.

00:20:44   I know, but there's no reason they couldn't also have a high-end 13 for people who want

00:20:48   that form factor. I witnessed the Retina Mini, which is kind of like the high-end different

00:20:54   form factor in iPads. At various times they've done that, where each line you can crank up

00:20:59   to the highest level, but they've chosen not to. So Disread is only—it's kind of like

00:21:04   towards the end of life when the 17 was the only one that got the super-duper stuff, like

00:21:08   they would just shove the most powerful things into the 17, like, "Well, you want the most

00:21:13   powerful thing? You've got to get this big boat."

00:21:16   So moving on, what do you think about the—what I believe was next, or at least the next most

00:21:21   important thing is—what do you think about the iPad Air?

00:21:24   Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on.

00:21:26   You're skipping a lot of stuff here.

00:21:27   So what about the Mac Pro?

00:21:29   Is there anything interesting you wanted to add to that?

00:21:31   It's interesting that when we were walking out

00:21:33   of the keynote, and we said, what

00:21:34   do you think of the price of the Mac Pro?

00:21:37   And Marco and I both said $2,999.

00:21:39   And then we changed our minds up and down

00:21:41   over various months or whatever.

00:21:43   But it turns out the first slide Apple

00:21:44   put up with the price next to that thing was $2,999.

00:21:47   So kudos to our instincts there.

00:21:53   And so the pricing is I think what we expected.

00:21:57   I think they could have gone lower

00:21:59   if they really wanted to, but they didn't want to.

00:22:01   And I'm glad that there's a two in front of that number,

00:22:04   even if no one's ever gonna buy that particular model.

00:22:06   I just hope I have the build-to-order flexibility

00:22:09   to mix and match to a greater degree,

00:22:11   because they showed the little canned configs.

00:22:13   And it's like, okay, well, can I get the second fastest,

00:22:17   low number of core CPU, but with the big honking GPU,

00:22:21   But with the medium-sized SSD or whatever.

00:22:25   The answer to all of those is-- well, I don't know about the SSD,

00:22:27   but the answer to the CPU and GPU from their tech specs page

00:22:30   is that you can mix and match any combination of those.

00:22:33   Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm assuming.

00:22:34   And I was wondering, again, what is it

00:22:38   going to cost to upgrade the standard 256 gig

00:22:41   SSD to the top-end terabyte one and dreading what it might be.

00:22:45   If you look, though, the new MacBook Pro,

00:22:48   the Retina MacBook Pro, has a one terabyte SSD option

00:22:51   for either 500 or 800, depending on whether it's the high end or the low end.

00:22:55   That's what Rich Segal pointed out to me today. He's like, "I know what the price is going

00:22:57   to be." I said, "How do you know?" He showed me the choices to upgrade from 256 to 512

00:23:03   or 1 terabyte for both the iMac and the MacBook Pro, and the prices were always $800 for the

00:23:08   1 terabyte and $800 for 1 terabyte.

00:23:10   But it is 500 on the high end right now on the MacBook Pro, so I'm guessing it could

00:23:14   be either. It could be 500 or 800. Either way, 800 is a little bit pushy. 500 for a

00:23:20   terabyte SSD is pretty good. But it's not that they always do that for you. It's not

00:23:23   500 for one terabyte SSD. It's 500 for an additional 768 gigabytes, you know what I

00:23:28   mean? Like, they always do that. That's true, but from Apple, first-party,

00:23:32   fully supported, and integrated into this crazy case where you can't put your own

00:23:35   in, that's pretty good. Well, now, stop. Stop right there. What did you just say,

00:23:39   Marco? This crazy case where you can't put your own in? Right. I don't think that's

00:23:44   true. The RAM is user serviceable, they said in the video. Is that what it is?

00:23:48   Yeah, they were saying that the memory is—I mean, the SSDs are user serviceable, too.

00:23:52   The question is, where are you going to find whatever weird PCIe form factor connector

00:23:57   thingy that goes in there?

00:23:59   Probably Otherworld Computing will sell them in a year or so, but it's not going to be

00:24:02   a bargain.

00:24:03   Right, because the SSDs are in a slot.

00:24:05   Right, that's exactly what I was driving at.

00:24:06   Yeah, the question is, like, what's—because, I mean, remember, when the Retina MacBook

00:24:09   Pro came out, it took OWSC like six months or something to be able to find something

00:24:15   that—and make something that could fit that.

00:24:18   So I think John's right, it might be a while.

00:24:20   They do that neat thing, though, where they give you a little cheapy aluminum external

00:24:24   case for you to—the one you take out so you don't have to just throw it in the garbage.

00:24:28   You can stick it in this little case and have a tiny little bus-powered SSD.

00:24:31   Third-party opportunity.

00:24:32   But yeah, since they didn't announce Retina displays, maybe I will take that extra money

00:24:39   and throw it into a bigger SSD when I buy a Mac Pro.

00:24:43   It's nice that they went standard 12 gigs on the RAM.

00:24:46   The Mac Pro for so far, the Mac Pro has until this point had 3 gig standard, which is embarrassing.

00:24:52   Well, the 12 gigs is embarrassing too.

00:24:54   I feel like 16 is the nice round number we all wanted and they give you 12 just to make

00:24:58   you feel inferior like, "Well, I guess I have to upgrade to 16."

00:25:01   What's the configuration to get 12 gigs in the DIMMs?

00:25:04   3/4s maybe?

00:25:05   That's so weird.

00:25:06   But there's four slots and it's quad channel.

00:25:09   Yeah, well, I've got a thing with triple channel memory on my desk and it's got four DIMM slots

00:25:15   sign it. Who knows with Apple in there? I don't know. I don't know what this configuration

00:25:19   is.

00:25:20   Yeah, it's kind of weird. And we don't know RAM pricing either. And we also don't know

00:25:23   CPU pricing either. And obviously, I have a lot to say about the CPUs. Probably more

00:25:27   than anybody cares, so I'm not going to do it all here. I'm going to make a blog post.

00:25:31   But the short version is the base CPU, the 4-core 3.7. That is an E5 1620. It's a $300

00:25:40   CPU. It is not a high-end CPU. It does not turbo very easily and very far. It's probably

00:25:47   a pretty crappy CPU.

00:25:49   It's 3.7, so what do you think it's going to turbo to? I mean, it's already pressing.

00:25:52   Well, I looked all these up. It turbos to 3.9, but with only one core active. If you

00:25:58   read Intel's weird turbo numbers, where it's like numbers slash numbers slash numbers,

00:26:02   it's three zeros and a two. So it hardly turbos at all. But if you look, most of these CPU

00:26:09   So I looked up-- you can figure out by elimination exactly

00:26:12   which models these are, so you can look up other stats.

00:26:16   So it's basically the whole E5 16x line.

00:26:18   It's the 1620, 5080, and then the 2697

00:26:22   at the high end, the 12 core.

00:26:24   And these all turbo to roughly the same 3.9 gigahertz.

00:26:29   And if you look at how they ramp up,

00:26:31   they all have pretty much the same range,

00:26:34   because they all have the same TDP.

00:26:36   They didn't go high enough to have the W chips.

00:26:40   For a while, the last few Xeon families

00:26:42   have had these special models ending in W for workstations.

00:26:46   And they've used more power and run faster.

00:26:48   And like the current 2010 Mac Pro that I have,

00:26:51   the 3.336 core is one of those chips.

00:26:55   They can't use those.

00:26:56   I guess they can't cool the extra heat,

00:26:57   so they're not using them.

00:26:59   That would have been nice.

00:26:59   I wish they were.

00:27:00   And the 12 core high-end one,

00:27:05   The part from Intel costs $2,600.

00:27:08   So I'm guessing that's going to be like a $5,000 option

00:27:10   on the Mac Pro.

00:27:12   And what's funny is that it hardly turbos at all.

00:27:15   So that's not likely to be a very fast chip

00:27:18   for almost anything except extremely parallelizable tasks.

00:27:22   The best option is probably going to be the 8-core.

00:27:25   But what's sad is that the 8-core they picked,

00:27:28   the E5 1680 V2, it's a $1,700 chip.

00:27:33   So that might be like a $2,500 to $3,000 option.

00:27:37   For $300 more from Intel, there's

00:27:40   a better one that uses the same power-- it's the 2667--

00:27:43   uses the same power, same heat, higher speeds all around.

00:27:48   And I don't know why they're not offering that.

00:27:51   I'm kind of sad about that.

00:27:53   But otherwise, overall, these look like reasonable options.

00:27:56   The same cache sizes on those two?

00:27:58   Yeah, exactly the same.

00:27:59   I believe 25 megs on both.

00:28:01   Yeah, I might go for the cheapy CPU and trade that money for SSD, because I don't have much

00:28:08   that's CPU bound.

00:28:10   And if I can put more money into the GPU, if that ends up being better for gaming, I

00:28:14   think a game that's CPU bound on the "low-end Xeon" is probably going to be fine.

00:28:21   People are running i5s and i7s in most of the gaming world, so I think the Xeon, even

00:28:26   the crappy Xeon will hold its own.

00:28:27   Is there a four core or something that starts at three nine and turbos faster or am I imagining?

00:28:32   I don't think so. I don't have the full chart in front of me now, but I don't think so.

00:28:36   I'm pretty sure that the highest Xeon speed is at 3.7. That is the base CPU. But it's

00:28:41   like you're stuck at 3.7. You don't get anything higher than that.

00:28:44   There is the six core in the middle. Intel's price is only just under 600. So Apple might

00:28:49   offer that for an extra thousand. And that is going to be substantially faster, but not

00:28:56   by a massive, huge jump.

00:28:58   Wasn't that the prices they actually gave?

00:29:00   It was $3,000 for the four-core and $4,000 for the six-core.

00:29:06   Right?

00:29:07   Oh, I forgot.

00:29:08   Yeah, they did tell us that, didn't they?

00:29:10   It's $1,000 more?

00:29:10   Yeah, OK.

00:29:11   Yeah, so the CPU is $600.

00:29:12   So the CPU is a $300 upgrade.

00:29:15   They're charging $1,000 for it.

00:29:16   So that's-- although that also has higher-end GPUs

00:29:20   in that configuration.

00:29:21   Yeah, exactly.

00:29:22   That's what I'm saying.

00:29:23   Mix and match, you could probably--

00:29:24   if they let us mix and match.

00:29:26   You can make a machine that's the way we want it to be.

00:29:29   Yeah, so we'll have to see when the configurator goes up

00:29:33   how these prices actually are.

00:29:34   I'm actually thinking, though-- so as you mentioned a second

00:29:36   ago, they didn't launch Retina displays,

00:29:38   like external desktop-sized Retina displays.

00:29:41   I'm actually thinking I might skip this generation,

00:29:43   because there's a new Xeon generation on Intel's roadmap

00:29:46   coming out in one year.

00:29:47   It's the Haswell EP line, or whatever it is.

00:29:51   that's scheduled to come out in third quarter of 2014.

00:29:55   And it's not likely to be a massive upgrade.

00:29:58   It's likely to be another 8% to 10%, maybe, of performance.

00:30:02   It's the same process size and everything,

00:30:04   so it's not going to be a huge jump.

00:30:06   But they're probably going to update the Mac Pros in a year,

00:30:10   or roughly a year.

00:30:12   And so maybe I might wait for that one.

00:30:14   Maybe they'll have retinas then.

00:30:16   Maybe people will have worked out the version 1

00:30:18   bugs with this weird new architecture, you know, who knows?

00:30:21   I can't wait that long. I've been waiting so long already. I gotta get this. I mean,

00:30:26   it's like when the dual 2 GHz Power Mac G5 came out. Like, I had like a front side bus,

00:30:31   it was like 133 MHz at that point. I was like, hell yes, I'm getting this machine. I'm getting

00:30:36   it. You know, so I just can't wait anymore. And so, I mean, what I have to wait for obviously

00:30:40   is monitors. So I'll be using this fancy new Mac Pro with my ancient 23 inch, you know,

00:30:46   LED backlight, but matte Apple Cinema Display.

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00:32:43   Alright, do you want to do the iPad stuff, then we'll mosey our way back into Mavericks?

00:32:46   Yeah, let's do that. Honestly, I don't think there's that much to say about the iPad. I

00:32:50   think the iPad Air is interesting.

00:32:55   It's a terrible name.

00:32:56   It is a horrible name. I mean, I think we can all agree on that. But it's interesting

00:33:01   that they're pushing really hard to get everyone talking about the new full-sized iPad.

00:33:08   again. That is the new product for this fall. The Retina Mini is great, and it's probably

00:33:13   going to be the one we all buy, but what Apple wants us to think about, obviously from this

00:33:17   presentation, Apple wants us to think about the big one again. And it's probably, you

00:33:21   know, skeptically it's probably just because it has way bigger margins. It's a much higher

00:33:25   priced product that has mostly the same hardware as the small one now. So I think you can look

00:33:30   at that and you can say, "This is obviously just them trying to boost the attention back

00:33:35   it a more profitable product. But it was interesting. I saw some of the hands-on reports from some

00:33:41   of the reporters who were there at the event say that it really is surprisingly small.

00:33:47   The low weight is really nice, and a lot of them say it's actually now very competitive

00:33:53   with the Mini, and they might even prefer it. So I think that's really interesting.

00:33:58   Apple might have actually succeeded in getting everyone to buy the big one again. Probably

00:34:03   Probably not. I'm guessing the Mini will still remain the most popular one, but I think it's

00:34:06   possible.

00:34:07   I still think the Mini was popular because it was cheap first and small second.

00:34:13   Yeah, that's very possible. And so, on that note, the Mini was updated. There's now a

00:34:20   retina Mini at $400, and the old Mini sticks around for $30 less at $300, which is—I

00:34:29   think that's exactly what we predicted last time, but close enough. Anyway, what I like

00:34:33   a lot about the Retina Mini is that it has the A7. So the Retina Mini and the iPad Air both have the

00:34:38   exact same CPU, the A7. And they basically have all the same internal hardware, except the iPad Air

00:34:45   has the bigger screen. So you're literally just, I think you're, isn't that right? I think you're

00:34:48   just paying an extra $100 just for the bigger screen. Is that right? And the bigger battery

00:34:53   that goes, that's behind it. Right, that's true. So, and do we know Retina Mini battery life

00:34:58   numbers yet? I mean, obviously what Apple tells us, but do we know real world numbers yet?

00:35:02   I don't think so.

00:35:04   I'm curious to see, you know, when the full-size one went Retina, they had to put a massive

00:35:09   battery in it, and it produced a lot more heat.

00:35:13   I'm curious to know if the Retina iPad, or the Retina Mini, rather, will have that same

00:35:19   problem.

00:35:20   So here's one unambiguously, as far as I'm concerned, bad thing about the iPad Air, and

00:35:24   probably the only, well, the only one of two bad things about the iPad Air, from my perspective,

00:35:30   I talked about last show that the, you know, making the frame thinner, but I'll have to

00:35:33   try that to see how that works out in practice. But two, it lost the beautiful original smart

00:35:37   cover with the metal hinge. Instead, it's got that flappy, twisty iPad mini smart cover

00:35:44   with the hinge that does not align and drives me insane.

00:35:47   Yeah, but the metal one scratches the laptop next to it in the bag.

00:35:52   Don't just leave your things rattling around in your bag. What are you doing? Are you putting

00:35:55   your iPhone in your pocket with your keys? Come on.

00:35:58   No, but you could put a smart-covered iPad next to the flat side of a laptop in a skinny

00:36:04   laptop pocket.

00:36:05   No, I would much rather have a hinge that works properly than a hinge that is padded

00:36:12   so that it doesn't damage other items when they're jostling around.

00:36:14   I do not like that hinge.

00:36:16   It's upsetting to me because that smart cover is one of my favorite things about the iPad

00:36:19   3 that I use.

00:36:22   It works so nicely, it's so pleasing in practice to flap and shut and open.

00:36:27   than the stupid finger streaks that it leaves on the screen because of the bendy thing,

00:36:32   but I do use the little bendy triangle thing when I prop it up. Disappointing. And the

00:36:37   big case that they put around it, looking at the picture, that looks the same, kind

00:36:40   of the same design as the existing big case, and those big cases are terrible too.

00:36:44   I don't think I've ever actually seen one of those. Obviously I've seen the regular

00:36:47   one with just the front, but I've never seen the full back case.

00:36:50   Yeah, I've seen them in the Apple Store. I've never seen a real person have them.

00:36:53   But they are not—they have sharp edges, and they're not attractive, and they don't

00:36:56   good in your hands, yuck. Well, remember the iPad 1 case? That was a disaster. Like, everyone

00:37:01   got it anyway, because that thing was a piece of crap.

00:37:04   It was like straps and flanges and seams. Yeah, it was very bad. And so no Touch ID

00:37:11   in any of these things, even though they have the A7.

00:37:13   That was really, that's a weird decision. You have to wonder why they did that. Obviously,

00:37:17   like I was thinking maybe they put Touch ID just in the big one to make more people want

00:37:20   to buy the big one, but they didn't put it in either of them.

00:37:23   Yeah, and when I see that they didn't even put it in the big one, but not putting it

00:37:26   the mini makes sense if you're just trying to keep the price down and stuff like that,

00:37:29   even though it has-- especially since it has the A7, but you're spending so much money

00:37:33   on that mini, right?

00:37:34   But for the big one, they have a 128 gigabyte model, for crying out loud. Why not put it

00:37:38   on the big, super fancy one? And it makes me think they don't have enough of those little

00:37:41   fingerprint sensors at this point. That's what it makes me think.

00:37:45   Very possible.

00:37:46   Because there's one and only product in the entire world that has that, and they're going

00:37:49   to sell a bajillion of them, and that product is still supply constrained. And of course,

00:37:53   None of us know why it's supply control.

00:37:54   Still, I'm seeing things of like, "Hey, I was at the mall at the Apple Store and they

00:37:57   had a sign out front that said, 'No more iPhone 5s as is today.

00:38:00   Come back tomorrow.'"

00:38:01   That's still happening now.

00:38:02   And so, it's not like they're making bazillions of them.

00:38:07   It's not like they can't make any of them.

00:38:09   But we have no idea which part it is that's making it so that those signs still are going

00:38:14   up at Apple Stores weeks after launch.

00:38:17   And could it be the part that has never been in an Apple product before?

00:38:20   It could be.

00:38:21   it's certainly not the screen, which is more or less the same, and the case is just a bunch

00:38:24   of aluminum, and the A7, well that's already going in the minis and the iPads, so I'm thinking,

00:38:29   you know, fingerprint sensor.

00:38:31   Now, are either of you going to get either of the new iPads, and if so, which one?

00:38:38   After the, uh, I didn't watch the event, and I don't think my wife did either, but she

00:38:42   knew of the things, and she came to me and said, "I want a new mini, she wants the Retina

00:38:45   one."

00:38:46   So, I don't think she's getting one, but that clearly, clearly that sale, she just got a

00:38:51   of 5S and got the fancy 64 gig one over her, so she can wait. I would love to have the

00:38:58   new iPad, but again, I will wait. This is my strategy for buying things that she does

00:39:02   not adhere to, which is wait for the product that you want. The first iPad I got was the

00:39:08   iPad 3 because it was the first Retina one. Because I knew Retina ones were coming and

00:39:11   I was willing to wait and I've been so happy with my iPad 3 that in ways that I wouldn't

00:39:16   have been because my wife got the iPad 2. I'm like, "Nope, I don't want an iPad 2."

00:39:19   You don't want to get one too?

00:39:20   You can get one?

00:39:21   Nope, I don't want to get one.

00:39:22   I'm waiting for Retina."

00:39:23   And I did, and I've been very happy.

00:39:24   And so I would say wait, like Marco was entertaining doing with Mac Pro.

00:39:29   If it's not the product you want, they'll just buy it just because it's there.

00:39:32   Wait, if you can possibly wait.

00:39:34   Your thing with not getting the first iPad Mini, I went the opposite direction on that

00:39:39   and got the first iPad Mini, and I think it ruined the iPad for me for a year because

00:39:44   I ended up, I hated the iPad Mini's screen,

00:39:48   but I loved its size.

00:39:51   And so it made the iPad 3 feel heavy and big and outdated,

00:39:56   but I hated using it 'cause the screen sucked.

00:39:59   So I ended up just, I barely used an iPad at all

00:40:02   for the last year.

00:40:03   Like I have used it more for Verizon tethering

00:40:05   than any other purpose.

00:40:06   And so now with looking at these, I'm wondering,

00:40:10   do I get the Retina Mini or even the iPad Air?

00:40:13   Because I actually kind of like playing games

00:40:14   on the bigger screen. I just don't like carrying that giant old thing that the iPad 3 was.

00:40:18   But I think I'm actually going to have to go to a store and feel them both in person

00:40:21   before I decide. Because maybe I just don't have a place for an iPad in my life right

00:40:27   now and I shouldn't get any of them, but maybe I should get the Retina Mini that combines

00:40:33   everything that I like from both sides.

00:40:35   I kept hearing that story when the Mini first came out of all my nerdy friends going, "Oh,

00:40:39   I totally, I just used the Mini now. Everything else is crap," or whatever. And then my wife

00:40:43   I've got a mini and I'm like, is that going to happen to me?

00:40:45   Am I going to use her mini and be like, oh, I can't use the big one?

00:40:47   But I very quickly found out I like the larger iPad.

00:40:51   I use it-- when I used to sit down and read things on my computer, I always go and just

00:40:56   lay down on the couch or on the bed or something and I read it on my iPad.

00:41:00   My iPad is my preferred device for reading long things now.

00:41:04   My big Retina iPad, not the small one.

00:41:07   And I don't know why I love the big one so much.

00:41:09   I mean, it's not like I'm doing anything with that big screen.

00:41:11   I guess I just like it because it's bigger.

00:41:13   It looks plenty sharp and there's more stuff and it's not some tiny little thing that I'm

00:41:17   pinching.

00:41:18   It's more like sitting with a magazine on your lap than sitting with a big deck of oversized

00:41:23   playing cards on your lap.

00:41:25   That's why I think maybe the Air might do better than we expect.

00:41:29   It still has the exact same size screen as the former big iPad, but with a substantially

00:41:36   lighter case and substantially smaller.

00:41:39   So I'm really curious to see how that is in practice.

00:41:41   Yeah, to answer my own question, so I currently have a iPad 3 that is Wi-Fi only that we bought

00:41:49   and then work gave me a while back or lent me, long-term lent me a while back, and iPad

00:41:55   mini also Wi-Fi only.

00:41:57   And I don't think I'm going to get any of the new ones.

00:42:02   Ask me, or remind me of this in like a month.

00:42:05   But if I were to get one, I think I would get an iPad mini, I would get one that's LTE,

00:42:13   and given the news today that T-Mobile had that they have really, really, really competitive

00:42:18   pricing on LTE service for iPads, I would really consider getting a T-Mobile one.

00:42:24   I'm not sure that I would, but I'd really, really think about it.

00:42:28   But again, I'm not sure I'm going to do anything above.

00:42:31   Something that kind of ruined stuff for me a little bit is that I got that awesome Logitech

00:42:37   keyboard case for the iPad 3 and I used it on a couple of plane rides.

00:42:43   An iPad propped up on a keyboard case is a really fantastic plane tray table computing

00:42:48   device.

00:42:49   It's even better, I think, than the 11 inch MacBook Air, which is normally the king of

00:42:52   that category.

00:42:54   It's really, really good and the battery life is insane.

00:42:56   You can watch videos, you can type on Twitter and stuff like that if the plane has Wi-Fi,

00:43:00   So that was a lot of fun.

00:43:02   Then I got the Mini, and of course,

00:43:03   the keyboard case doesn't fit it.

00:43:05   If I get the Air, the keyboard case still won't fit it,

00:43:07   but I think looking at future keyboard cases,

00:43:10   I think having the extra length of the iPad Air,

00:43:15   or the height in portrait,

00:43:17   like having that dimension still be much bigger

00:43:20   than the Mini, would probably make

00:43:21   for a much more usable keyboard case.

00:43:23   So if you're a keyboard case kind of person,

00:43:25   the Air is probably gonna be the better pick.

00:43:28   All right, anything else from the event

00:43:31   before we meander our way to Mavericks?

00:43:33   iPad 2, lol.

00:43:36   What is up with that?

00:43:37   What is that?

00:43:38   What must the margins be on that by now?

00:43:43   I guess the LCD still kind of costs a little bit of money,

00:43:46   but it must be like 70% margins.

00:43:49   It's crazy to me.

00:43:50   And the thing is, they must know that they can get away

00:43:55   with that.

00:43:56   It must be selling, and those people must want something big, and they want something

00:44:00   cheap, and they're willing to pay $400 for it.

00:44:04   It's not a bad kid computer, because my daughter and my son play with our iPad, too, and they

00:44:08   play games on it, and they do things or whatever, but I would never buy one for $400.

00:44:13   If anyone, people out there, you're nerds, you're listening to a nerdy podcast, help

00:44:17   your family not get the iPad, too.

00:44:20   I know it didn't work out for us.

00:44:22   Marco couldn't stop his mom from getting the free iPhone 4.

00:44:26   Sometimes you can't do it, but just tell people.

00:44:29   Give them the extra $100 to get one of the good iPads.

00:44:32   Just donated them.

00:44:34   Because what was the iPad 2, A5?

00:44:37   Well, yeah, what's funny is that it's the exact same hardware

00:44:40   as the original iPad Mini, which is now still for sale for $30

00:44:43   less.

00:44:44   So the original iPad Mini is all the exact same hardware,

00:44:47   same screen resolution, just smaller dimensions,

00:44:49   smaller physical screen.

00:44:51   And it's all the same stuff for $100 less.

00:44:55   And so the iPad 4, or the iPad 2 rather,

00:44:58   god, that's so old.

00:45:00   I mean, think about it.

00:45:01   That came out in early 2011.

00:45:02   That is almost three years old.

00:45:04   And not only are they still selling it new,

00:45:06   but they didn't even drop the price.

00:45:09   So--

00:45:10   I don't understand that.

00:45:11   It just doesn't make-- like--

00:45:13   Well, the theories I've heard, which I think are plausible,

00:45:15   is that schools are buying a ton of them.

00:45:17   And that anybody who still needs a dock port,

00:45:20   like if they made-- like somebody

00:45:21   in the chat room said a few minutes ago-- sorry,

00:45:22   I forgot who-- that a lot of people

00:45:24   have custom hardware that uses the dock port that they integrated with iPads for some part

00:45:28   of their business. So that kind of makes sense.

00:45:31   But schools don't pay $3.99. They get the education price, which is lower.

00:45:34   Right. Well, but think about it also. Let's say they drop the price at $100. Then it would

00:45:40   be the exact same price as the iPad Mini. So it's like you have two things with the

00:45:43   exact same hardware, except one's bigger, and at the exact same price? That would be

00:45:48   kind of weird.

00:45:49   Drop it $50, drop it $70. I'm not saying you have to take $100 off of it, although they

00:45:52   could at this point, but come on.

00:45:54   And I think it's, you're an iOS developer,

00:45:57   does it feel good to keep selling,

00:45:58   I guess you gotta deal with the Mini anyway, but it's just--

00:46:00   - That's the thing, there's two devices,

00:46:02   even if they drop the iPad 2 out of the lineup,

00:46:04   we as developers would still have to support the A5 forever

00:46:07   because they're still today selling the iPhone 4S

00:46:10   and the iPad Mini, the original one,

00:46:13   which both use that CPU.

00:46:14   - Yeah, just think about it, fast forward three years

00:46:17   and you're gonna be in the same situation with the 64-bit.

00:46:19   You're gonna be like, oh, there's just one

00:46:20   64-bit CPU left, some crappy device still has like an A6 in it, and we have to keep

00:46:25   supporting that, and it's annoying us. Why can't Apple go all 64-bit? Well, that's

00:46:29   coming up. That's the next moaning about the crappy old computer. But this is the early

00:46:35   era of moaning where you just keep some slow device around for too long, like the 3GS before

00:46:40   it.

00:46:41   What's interesting, too, Dave Gusta in the chat pointed this out, that the iPad Mini

00:46:45   original and the iPad 2 are the same hardware. One's bigger, 100 bucks more. The Retina

00:46:50   Mini and the new iPad Air are also the same hardware. One's bigger, also 100 bucks more.

00:46:56   So they have that exact same gap with both product families.

00:46:58   Yeah, there's plenty. I mean, if you go into an Apple store, like the script or the spiel

00:47:03   or whatever they have to say which device do you like? Do you like big? Do you like

00:47:06   small? Do you have a lot of money? Do you have a little money? It's a good spread to

00:47:11   to get everybody something that they want at a price they can kind of feel okay with,

00:47:16   while still having that kind of smooth little ramp that they get their wedge in, where you

00:47:22   decide on the machine that you want, and then you end up getting the little bump, and you

00:47:25   end up, "Oh, and that bump is 100 bucks more," and you're like, "Sure, why not?"

00:47:28   Apple stores and Apple's products and pricing are great at herding you towards the thing

00:47:32   that you think you want, and then making you pay 50 to 100 bucks more than you thought

00:47:36   you were going to pay for it, and then leaving the store happy. That's the magic of the Apple

00:47:40   store. Even if it's just a case, you're like, "Oh, and of course you'll want a case. Yes,

00:47:43   of course." You don't even blanket that $40 case, which you were just hemming and hauling

00:47:48   over a $50 difference between Model A and Model B. But the case is like, "Ah, $40. Yeah,

00:47:52   sure, throw it in." AppleCare Plus, throw it on. I don't know how well they do with

00:47:56   that, but cases, people are like, "Oh, I gotta have a case. Give me the pink one. Here's

00:47:59   $40."

00:48:00   Oh, goodness. Yeah, the iPad 2 is weird. Was it last show or the show before where I thought

00:48:07   I was being all bright and pointing out that we were darn near done with dock devices,

00:48:12   and clearly I was just way wrong with that.

00:48:14   Nope.

00:48:15   They're going to add a dock port to the non-written iPad mini. Just to give it to the family. And

00:48:20   this is our big-mouth bass family for people with old peripherals.

00:48:26   They just must be selling a ton of those iPad 2s. I mean, they must be selling way more

00:48:30   than we can possibly imagine.

00:48:32   Yeah, I don't know. I mean, now we're going to have to—every time there's any kind of event

00:48:39   where iPads can be talked about at all, it's like "iPad 2 Death Watch." Like the iPad Classic,

00:48:44   everyone just waits for that one. It's like, "You know, still for sale."

00:48:46   Is it still for sale? I didn't look after it yesterday.

00:48:49   iPod Classic? Yeah, I think so. At this point, I mean, I was one of them. I predicted for years,

00:48:54   every single iPod event, "Oh, the iPod Classic is going to die right at tomorrow's event," or

00:48:59   And every time it goes by and it's still around. It's never it's not mentioned. It's just still quietly around for sale

00:49:05   I think now like now the surprising thing would be if they do kill it like it now

00:49:10   It just seems like this this like undead zombie product that just cannot possibly die

00:49:14   Isn't it like only available like one color or one or two colors something like that?

00:49:18   I don't even bother it's just like this is it my glass

00:49:21   There are no options

00:49:23   Take it take it or leave it. No. No, actually wait a minute. There's two there is a silver and a dark gray

00:49:28   Well, there you go.

00:49:29   Which they're probably calling black.

00:49:30   But yeah, they actually have both.

00:49:34   And they're both the same capacity, same price, $250,

00:49:36   160 gigs, which I think has been that way for like three or four

00:49:40   years now.

00:49:41   And compared to-- and I heard this on Back to Work today

00:49:43   of all shows.

00:49:44   They were talking about the tech stuff and keynotes.

00:49:48   This is third hand now, because they saw someone on the web

00:49:51   link do something that said, the number of possible SKUs

00:49:54   of one of the devices, it might have even been the iPhone, was like 40 or something

00:49:59   in terms of carrier, storage size, color combinations. You end up with 40 SKUs for the iPhone.

00:50:06   Well, but I mean, when you think about it, that is by far Apple's most popular and most

00:50:10   profitable product. So they can afford to satisfy every possible need with it.

00:50:13   I know, but it's similar. Maybe they were even talking about the iPad. It's similar

00:50:17   because they do offer the two colors with the iPads, and you can get them with the cellular

00:50:21   and without, and with Wi-Fi and in different sizes.

00:50:23   So it multiplies out pretty fast.

00:50:25   Like, we all like this sort of-- it's like build to order,

00:50:27   but not really, because nothing is build to order.

00:50:29   They just have to make all sorts of different varieties,

00:50:32   and you just pick the one you want.

00:50:33   Well, I want the white Verizon 32 gig mini retina.

00:50:40   It's a lot.

00:50:42   I will say also, now that we're on the subject,

00:50:44   because people are going to ask, if you're going to buy an iPad,

00:50:47   I would evaluate your own needs.

00:50:49   However, I always highly encourage people to get a cellular model.

00:50:53   I think it makes a big difference in how you can use it.

00:50:56   Personally, I get the Verizon one. That's up to you which one you get.

00:50:59   Just because for me, having an iPad work in my house on cellular is not necessary,

00:51:03   but having it work everywhere else is awesome.

00:51:05   And then I have Verizon on the iPad and AT&T on the phone,

00:51:08   and I have tethering available on both.

00:51:10   So whenever I go on a trip, I can just pick the one that is better reception wherever I am.

00:51:15   and wherever I am, and usually it's the Verizon one,

00:51:18   and use that to tether my laptop, and it's awesome.

00:51:20   So I do recommend getting a cellular one.

00:51:24   I get 32 gig capacity on iPads.

00:51:26   I don't get 64, I get 32 just because that's the way

00:51:29   I use it, it's up to you how you use it.

00:51:31   But definitely I would recommend cellular.

00:51:34   - I would agree with that.

00:51:34   I've only ever had WiFi iPads,

00:51:37   and especially the last two which I acquired

00:51:42   roughly the same time, which was the iPad 3 and the Mini,

00:51:45   I've really regretted not having a cellular one.

00:51:47   And I think up until today, I would have said

00:51:50   I would absolutely get the Verizon one,

00:51:51   just like you to offset the AT&T phone that I have.

00:51:54   That being said, like I alluded to earlier,

00:51:57   T-Mobile announced some really interesting cellular pricing.

00:52:00   I'm gonna butcher the details,

00:52:01   but it was something along the lines of,

00:52:03   you get 200 megs free every month,

00:52:04   and then it was pretty cheap to add in,

00:52:07   I think it was day or week passes at reasonable capacities.

00:52:11   It was not ridiculous.

00:52:13   - Oh, that's really good for travel.

00:52:14   Mm-hmm, exactly. But the only problem is if I'm reading things right, I believe it's

00:52:18   only on their 4G network, which is basically in metropolitan areas and that's it. So

00:52:23   it is a pretty big trade-off. It's much cheaper, but it may not be as available, especially

00:52:28   in the case of something like Verizon. But I would definitely look into that. And just

00:52:32   like Marco said, evaluate your own needs. But if it were me, I would probably get a

00:52:36   32 gig iPad mini retina, either T-Mobile or Verizon.

00:52:42   If your iPad never leaves your house,

00:52:44   then Wi-Fi only is probably fine.

00:52:46   But if you bring it with you either every day on your commute

00:52:49   or if you bring it on trips more than zero times a year,

00:52:54   having the LTE one is great because not only can you tether

00:52:57   all your other stuff with it if you want to,

00:52:59   and the battery life when you're just tethering is awesome.

00:53:01   You can use it pretty much all day.

00:53:03   But you can also-- it just changes the way you use it.

00:53:08   It's just like a phone.

00:53:09   When you always know that it's always online.

00:53:11   rather than having to go on your phone, turn tethering on,

00:53:15   have your iPad connect to your phone through tethering.

00:53:18   Whenever you add those steps, it reduces the likelihood

00:53:22   that you're going to pull it out and use it for something.

00:53:24   And so for me, I've always found that I

00:53:27   will use the iPad more when it has the radio than when

00:53:31   it doesn't.

00:53:32   Yeah, the only thing I would say, though,

00:53:33   is I am not sure if T-Mobile does tethering

00:53:36   with these plans.

00:53:37   They very well may.

00:53:38   I just really don't know.

00:53:39   that would dramatically change my enthusiasm for T-Mobile

00:53:43   because half the reason I would want a cellular iPad

00:53:46   is in order to tether, just like you were saying.

00:53:49   - Do you want to move on to the Mavericks stuff?

00:53:53   - Yeah, I'd like to briefly start by making an observation

00:53:56   and then I will leave the floor to especially John.

00:54:00   - What are you leaving the floor to me?

00:54:02   You guys got to ask me questions.

00:54:03   I just wrote this entire review.

00:54:04   I'm not gonna read the review on the air, you know.

00:54:06   - Wait, you're not?

00:54:07   - No, I'm not.

00:54:08   We have about 15 more minutes, 20 more minutes.

00:54:10   You can fit it in there, right?

00:54:11   I don't think so.

00:54:12   Are you going to do an audiobook release?

00:54:14   No, I'm not.

00:54:15   I mean, you can make Mac OS X read you web pages.

00:54:18   It's part of the OS.

00:54:20   They don't need me to do that for you.

00:54:21   Yeah, but it's not the same.

00:54:23   Remember when we did the audible read?

00:54:24   It has to be in the author's voice

00:54:26   to really have maximum effect.

00:54:27   If I read something that I wrote,

00:54:29   it just reminds me how bad the writing is.

00:54:31   I'm like, oh, it just doesn't-- no.

00:54:34   It's a certain skill to read.

00:54:38   To read the written word is different than just speaking

00:54:41   or giving a speech or anything like that.

00:54:42   It's very different.

00:54:43   And yeah, not in my skill set.

00:54:46   It's funny you say that, Marco, because earlier as I was reading

00:54:48   the review, I thought to myself, I

00:54:51   wonder if we could take recordings of the, what is it,

00:54:55   naturally speaking software that you use,

00:54:57   whatever it is, the dictation software you use,

00:54:59   and piece together the review just from the recordings

00:55:02   that you made in the process of writing the review.

00:55:04   You could not, because I interleave typing and speaking,

00:55:07   which you really shouldn't do and is inefficient,

00:55:09   but that's just the way I work.

00:55:10   And it's just nonsense.

00:55:11   Just fragments of sentences burst it out,

00:55:14   and then I go back and edit things and put

00:55:16   in two sentences by hand and speak some more.

00:55:18   It is not a pretty process.

00:55:21   Fair enough.

00:55:21   All right, well, now you guys are giving me

00:55:23   a taste of my own medicine.

00:55:24   I wanted to make a quick observation

00:55:25   before we got to that.

00:55:26   It was one of the recent-- I think

00:55:30   I knew it was WWDC either this year or in 2012 and I didn't have the chance to go

00:55:34   look it up and figure out exactly what one it was.

00:55:36   But I remember leaving that event, whatever the event was, and thinking to myself, "My

00:55:41   goodness, half of this event was a big 'screw you' to Google."

00:55:44   It might have been the one where they introduced Apple Maps, which as it turns out wasn't

00:55:47   as much of a 'screw you' as we thought, but whatever event it was, there was one

00:55:51   event where I left thinking, "My goodness, that was just a big 'screw you' to Google."

00:55:57   After this event, I had a similar feeling, but it was for Microsoft.

00:56:02   During the event, you could argue that Apple killed paid OS upgrades, or really paying

00:56:09   for your OS in any particular capacity.

00:56:13   They killed Office to some degree by making the iWork suite free.

00:56:21   They killed Office 365 and Google Docs by having the iWork on iCloud beta or whatever

00:56:29   it's called.

00:56:30   Now granted when I say killed, none of these things, Office and Google Docs, aren't going

00:56:33   away.

00:56:35   But I thought it was really, really interesting that a lot of this was both an implied and

00:56:40   in some cases explicit "screw you" to Microsoft.

00:56:43   And the explicit case I'm thinking of most obviously is when they had the picture of

00:56:47   Windows 8 or Windows 8 One or whatever it was, the picture of the box for that, and

00:56:52   they said, "This is what the other guys are doing, and we don't believe in that,

00:56:55   so we're going to make it free."

00:56:56   They blew it up.

00:56:57   They blew up the box.

00:56:58   Because in all the new keynote stuff, they at least kept that transition.

00:57:01   Right, right, exactly.

00:57:04   And so I don't know if there's much else to say about that, and I'm curious if you

00:57:07   guys have any thoughts, but I just thought it was interesting that they're going after

00:57:11   Microsoft with this, because that was a direction I didn't really expect.

00:57:14   Well, they're going after the old Microsoft with that, because there was an article in

00:57:18   Wired about this, too, that quoted me. Someone sent me an email asking for a take on this,

00:57:23   and I sent them a paragraph in the middle of the OS X stuff. I don't know why I did,

00:57:27   but I did it mostly because I knew exactly what I wanted to say on this topic. The article

00:57:30   was "Apple just killed the market for paid OSes," or whatever, some similarly sensational

00:57:35   headline. And I sent back a paragraph that said, "This is what's happening." And it's

00:57:38   basically because of vertical integration. If you make the hardware and the software,

00:57:44   you can decide where you want to take your profit.

00:57:46   Sure.

00:57:47   The lazy way to do it has been like, "Okay, we'll get most of our profit from hardware.

00:57:51   Let's make a little profit from software, too." But that's a dumb move, because if you

00:57:55   can just shift that profit over, just take that little bit you're getting from software

00:57:59   and put it into hardware and make your software free, free is a magical price point. There

00:58:03   are so many papers and books that you can read about the experiments that show the magic

00:58:06   of free. You know, a one cent difference going from one cent to two cent does almost nothing,

00:58:12   or going from two cents down to one cent does almost nothing. But going from one cent down

00:58:15   to zero cent, unbelievable results. Like free is magic. And so why in the world would you get like,

00:58:21   you know, 2% of your profit from software and 98 from hardware when your results getting 100% of

00:58:27   your profit from hardware and zero from software are just phenomenal. And so if you make both of

00:58:32   those things, you have that option. And you could do the reverse, I suppose, as well. But it's

00:58:35   really hard to give people free hardware, especially when you're talking about big,

00:58:38   heavy things made of metal and silicon chips and stuff. They're more expensive. So if you

00:58:42   have to make a choice where are you going to put your profit? Really, really hard to

00:58:45   put all your profit into software and give people free hardware, although Amazon is almost

00:58:49   kind of doing that. They're trying to give everyone free everything. But anyway. But

00:58:53   on the Apple side, the choice is clear. It's always been the big money's in the hardware

00:58:56   and the software is cheap. And Apple is finally realizing, "Look, we make the whole thing.

00:59:00   We can shove all the profit into the hardware and give the software away for free." And

00:59:04   Microsoft couldn't do that before because they didn't make the hardware.

00:59:07   So now the new Microsoft is, "We want to do that.

00:59:09   We want to be virtually integrated.

00:59:10   We want to make the hardware and the software."

00:59:13   Once Microsoft does that, they will finally have the freedom to shift the profit wherever

00:59:17   they want.

00:59:18   I think they're going to end up in the same place because you can't give people free Surface

00:59:21   Pro 2s or whatever they're selling now.

00:59:23   Those cost money to make.

00:59:24   They're physical goods.

00:59:25   You've got to ship them.

00:59:26   People have to buy them and build them.

00:59:27   But you can make the software free.

00:59:30   I think Microsoft, it's not like ... Microsoft knows where they're going.

00:59:33   They're saying, "Oh, we're going to make our own hardware.

00:59:34   We're going to buy Nokia, we're going to make our own stuff, we're making our own Xbox or

00:59:37   whatever.

00:59:39   OS upgrades for the Xbox are not $29 or $100 or whatever, they're free.

00:59:44   You just get the new, you update your software.

00:59:46   So everyone's going in that direction, everyone's becoming vertically integrated.

00:59:51   And Apple can take its swipes now, but I think Microsoft is, considering the recent Microsoft

00:59:56   moves, they are well on their way to becoming that kind of company already, and Apple just

00:59:59   gets to get some final digs in before everyone arrives at the same spot.

01:00:04   Sure, sure. I think developers are going to read into this free stuff a lot more than

01:00:10   the market will. And I would also say, with regard to these things like quote killing

01:00:16   these other companies, I would say my favorite weapon in Worms, I was a big fan of Worms,

01:00:22   the 2D versions back before they went 3D and ruined the whole thing, but my favorite weapon

01:00:27   in worms is always the prod, because it's just like you walk up to somebody and just

01:00:31   poke them off a cliff or something. You expend the slightest effort possible and cause them

01:00:36   some catastrophe to happen.

01:00:40   So I would say Apple prodded Microsoft and Google with these things. I don't think

01:00:47   they really are killing anybody. I don't think it's that big of a deal to the industry.

01:00:54   What it really is is these Apple products are appliances.

01:00:58   At least Apple wants you to think of them that way.

01:01:00   And Apple wants you to just buy the Apple product

01:01:04   and just always have the latest version.

01:01:06   That's something that Google cannot offer on all their stuff

01:01:09   on Android and everything.

01:01:10   Google can't offer it because they don't really

01:01:13   control enough of the ecosystem.

01:01:14   Microsoft can't offer it because it kind of bites their business

01:01:17   model in the butt.

01:01:18   But the fact is no one with Android phones

01:01:21   really ever upgrades anyway, even if they can.

01:01:23   And even PC users don't usually upgrade their OS.

01:01:27   Usually they get the new OS by buying a new PC.

01:01:29   So they're not really attacking these business models

01:01:34   as much as it might seem.

01:01:36   It would also-- the iWork in the browser stuff

01:01:40   and the collaboration features, that

01:01:43   would have been really fantastic if Google Docs didn't exist.

01:01:46   But now it's like Apple is really

01:01:50   trying to play catch up with Google Docs.

01:01:52   and to date they've done a very bad job of it.

01:01:54   We'll see how this is.

01:01:56   I don't have high expectations because their reputation

01:01:59   in this department is very, very bad.

01:02:00   Casey should think about his feeling coming out

01:02:02   of the Apple Maps presentation.

01:02:05   This is the same type of thing.

01:02:06   Hey, well, remember that-- you know,

01:02:07   we don't have much faith in that.

01:02:09   And in terms of being able to control everyone's versions

01:02:11   of stuff, everyone's got a little foot in their camp.

01:02:13   Like Google's got its Chromebooks.

01:02:15   And the Chromebook, the whole big deal

01:02:16   is you always have the most recent version of everything.

01:02:19   And Google Chrome, which they offer

01:02:20   for lots of different platforms, same type of deal, where Google Chrome is notorious

01:02:24   or, I don't know if you'd call it notorious, I actually like this, I'm just like, "Look,

01:02:28   it's going to update itself. You're going to have the latest version. If you connect

01:02:31   to the internet, you're going to have the latest version of Chrome, right?" And Chrome

01:02:34   OS is like an entire machine that's like that. You have no choice. You will have the latest

01:02:38   version of everything, no options, you're just going to have it. Android, they can't

01:02:41   do that because of carrier crap and that's kind of the whole thing they're doing. And

01:02:45   similarly for Microsoft with Xbox, I mean, I think you have the option not to upgrade,

01:02:49   it's like they're not charging you and they will strongly encourage you, "Oh, hey, the

01:02:52   new Xbox is out." I mean, I don't know if they go so far as to say you can't connect

01:02:55   to Live after a certain point if you haven't upgraded to the latest Xbox. Microsoft console

01:02:59   owners would know better than I, but everyone who has control of any hardware platform wants

01:03:03   to do that thing where it's just where they want to keep everyone up to date. It's just

01:03:06   that Apple is like, they're already there. They've been camped out in that zone for just

01:03:11   decades. It's like, we have the hardware, we have the software, and they were fighting

01:03:16   one hand tied behind their back trying to charge $29 so it was 10 upgrades. It was like,

01:03:20   "Why? Why are we doing that? We're just punishing ourselves." And maybe it took iOS to convince

01:03:25   them like, "Oh yeah, we can just make it free and add $29 to the margins of our Macs."

01:03:30   Problem solved.

01:03:31   So, Jon, switching gears for a minute, well, probably for the rest of the show, do you

01:03:37   think Mavericks, do you think everyone should install it? Well, not everyone. Have you installed

01:03:42   it on your main computers? Like, are you using it full-time on your main and work computers?

01:03:47   In the review, which you haven't read, I said at one point that every new version of OS

01:03:50   10, I've been upgrading to sooner and sooner, like after, usually after publishing my review.

01:03:57   And I said, "Maybe by the time you read this, my whole house will be all on Mavericks."

01:04:01   Unfortunately, like a week before Mavericks was released, my work switched VPN products

01:04:06   from one that used to work with the OS 10 built-in VPN to one that required a terrible

01:04:10   third-party product and now I'm stuck until the VPN software, because I kind of need it,

01:04:15   until the VPN software is supported in Mavericks and God knows how long that will be.

01:04:18   So unfortunately I was not able to execute my plan to get everybody up to Mavericks and

01:04:21   to get my machine up to Mavericks, but it's pretty darn safe.

01:04:26   Like you know, again, I say in the review, please people, back up your stuff.

01:04:30   Like do a real backup, confirm that it's okay, maybe do two backups just in case because

01:04:35   if you screw it up then your backup is the only one place your stuff is, you know, so

01:04:38   do backups, right?

01:04:40   do a couple Google searches. If you know you have high-risk software that tends to break

01:04:43   in OS upgrades, say you're running PGP Hold Disk Encryption, which you shouldn't be because

01:04:46   you should just be using the OS X's built-in encryption, see if that's compatible. If you're

01:04:51   running some crazy extension or a kernel extension or a driver, go to the manufacturer's website,

01:04:58   send an email to the support thing, say, "Hey, it takes an extra week or so to get all these

01:05:01   answers," but you'll be much happier when you do. It's not like you just wait some magical

01:05:05   period of time to upgrade, but check your software. If you're just only running Box,

01:05:09   stock Apple stuff and things from the Mac App Store,

01:05:12   yeah, upgrade today.

01:05:13   Again, back up, but you'll be fine.

01:05:14   But yeah, it seems really low risk

01:05:17   in terms of compatibility, right down to the fact

01:05:19   that it doesn't even eliminate any hardware compatibility.

01:05:21   Like if you can run Mountain Lion, you can run this.

01:05:23   So it's pretty safe.

01:05:25   - I know that a handful of my coworkers

01:05:29   have already upgraded, and granted,

01:05:31   all of my coworkers are kind of nerds,

01:05:33   but some of them are not the kind of nerds

01:05:37   that I necessarily would have expected to upgrade an OS so quickly.

01:05:41   Not to say they wouldn't do it, but just to do it so quickly.

01:05:44   And I haven't heard any negative feedback from any of them, but I only just got back

01:05:47   to work today.

01:05:48   I have not done it on either of my machines yet.

01:05:51   I will at some point once I get some double sure backups going, especially since we just

01:05:59   went on this trip, I want to make sure that I kind of get through the processing of all

01:06:02   those files and make sure those are all squared away in more places than just the Synology

01:06:07   and then I will probably upgrade over the weekend or something.

01:06:11   The other reason to worry about upgrades is not that things aren't going to work, but

01:06:17   features are added and changed. And so that's why maybe reading a review and knowing what

01:06:22   you're in for, because say you really liked the old way that full screen worked, because

01:06:26   you're a crazy person. The new way that it worked is different. And so you upgrade and

01:06:31   go, oh, no, I missed the-- I mean, one of the people's complaints that I didn't actually

01:06:34   about or use like they change the way the power button works on laptops or

01:06:37   instead of bringing up a little dialogue where you can sleep and do all that

01:06:40   stuff just hitting it sleeps but you have to hold it down to get a dialogue

01:06:43   and that seems like a small thing but that's a change and it doesn't like it's

01:06:48   not like your computer doesn't work anymore but people will upgrade and

01:06:51   that's the thing that they'll say I upgraded to maverick and I ruined my

01:06:53   computer now I have to hold down the key to get dialogue walk is it gonna

01:06:56   happen you accidentally hit it because it's nearly the leaky on my laptop it

01:06:59   puts my Mac to sleep and you know they have to wait a week to find out some way

01:07:02   to disable that with some keyboard shortcut. Stuff like that is, in the real world, what

01:07:08   people decide to condemn or praise a release for. And they'll be praising it again if they

01:07:12   hated the old fullscreen mode, or they liked the new one, or if they have multi-monitors,

01:07:15   they like having the menu bar in both places. Stuff like that is what people end up becoming

01:07:21   attached to. Whereas what I'm thinking of is, "Oh, is it going to hose your computer

01:07:25   and not let you get your work done?" and stuff like that. And that's more of a software

01:07:28   compatibility thing. But yeah, reader view. You can see the features. Some features are

01:07:31   different than they are in Mountain Lion. Not better, not worse, it's up to you to decide,

01:07:35   but they're different. Find out what those are and see if you like them. But I think one of the

01:07:39   reasons people are upgrading is because you go to any computer with Mountain Lion and you launch

01:07:44   the App Store and it's like, "Hey, did you know Mavericks is out? Press this button, get it now."

01:07:48   And that's the whole point. It's free, no purchase, just it's going to be shoved in

01:07:53   your face the same way iOS 7 was on iOS devices. And that's all part of the plan.

01:07:58   Well, to go back just very briefly about features, one of the things that I've been kind of

01:08:03   dreading about Mavericks since I was sitting in the WWDC keynote is that when I'm on

01:08:09   my work computer particularly, I like to have three different spaces.

01:08:14   One of them is like personal email and web browsing.

01:08:17   The middle one is work email and IM and things of that nature.

01:08:21   And the third one is whatever the actual work I'm doing is.

01:08:25   And I treat each of these three spaces as one contiguous unit across two monitors.

01:08:32   So maybe I'll have work email on the onboard LCD and I'll have work IM on an external LCD,

01:08:42   but that space, space number two, I treat as one contiguous unit, just spanning two

01:08:48   monitors.

01:08:49   The way that Mavericks treats the spaces in mission control and all that is that it is no

01:08:56   They are now two independent monitors with two independent situations going on and I've been dreading that although if I recall correctly

01:09:04   You said in the review there is a way by which you can turn that off if I really get desperate

01:09:09   But that's a great example of something where I already know that this might not be something I like but I I

01:09:15   theoretically have a backup plan just in case.

01:09:18   Yeah, and the point is, what are you going to do?

01:09:20   You're not going to stay, especially if you're going to end up upgrading eventually, or you're

01:09:24   going to get a new Mac with this, you might as well just get used to it sooner rather

01:09:27   than later.

01:09:28   Absolutely.

01:09:29   Like, get started on figuring out what you need to do to tweak this particular version

01:09:32   to your liking, you know?

01:09:33   Right.

01:09:34   Instead of just saying, "Well, I'm going to hold..."

01:09:35   It's the same reason all these people are on Snow Leopard still that they mentioned

01:09:38   in the keynote and that I also mentioned in my review.

01:09:40   People love Snow Leopard because it's the last good version, right?

01:09:43   Because it's just the one they love.

01:09:45   You just have to move on eventually.

01:09:47   Yeah, and that's why I figure I'll install over the weekend, but it's nice knowing what

01:09:54   I'm probably not going to like about it, but it's also nice knowing after having read your

01:09:59   review that there's a backup plan available.

01:10:01   Also, I'm very surprised that I have the self-control not to update immediately if for no other

01:10:07   reason than for the easy access to emoji with whatever keystroke it is, which Stephen Hackett

01:10:14   also gently pointed out in his Mavericks review.

01:10:17   You don't need easier access to emoji.

01:10:19   What are you trying to say, Marco?

01:10:22   I think you have a problem.

01:10:23   I put that in my review too, Casey.

01:10:25   I thought you read it.

01:10:26   I don't know.

01:10:27   I saw it in your review as well, but I got a snarky call-out in Hackett's review.

01:10:32   Oh, yeah.

01:10:34   I mean, we're late in the show for me to be going through my review point by point, and

01:10:40   We can do more of that next show, but to sum up the...

01:10:47   I didn't want to go too meta on this, but I'll go a little bit meta, and then we'll

01:10:50   go into more details on future shows.

01:10:53   But when I'm writing these things, I'm always looking for some kind of message or theme

01:10:59   for the OS, and Apple provides some of that with whatever they decide to be pushing, and

01:11:04   however they try to wrap up in a bow the features that happen to make it into this release.

01:11:07   And this one, obviously, energy saving is a big thing.

01:11:09   What I'm more looking for is like, historically speaking, what kind of release is this?

01:11:14   And I would say it's a weird one.

01:11:16   Like that's the theme of this review that goes throughout the thing.

01:11:19   There's weird stuff in this.

01:11:20   Like it's odd.

01:11:22   You would call it like a transitional because there have been transitional releases, but

01:11:25   it's like a transition between what and what.

01:11:27   A transition between the weird line, mountain lion, forestall, iOS jealousy, no clear vision

01:11:36   and then like not on your way to an iOS 7 thing because it doesn't seem like it is.

01:11:42   I mean maybe that's out there in the future but it's not clear but it's like,

01:11:44   okay, away from where we were but not towards anywhere in particular. And it's weird.

01:11:51   You know, aesthetically and like spiritually if you want to think of it that way,

01:11:55   like it's kind of a little bit lost and confused. But just not to say that there's so many parts

01:12:02   parts of it are just better. The tech part just gets better. It gets more efficient,

01:12:08   use less memory, things get faster, and bugs are removed and subsystems improve. Everything

01:12:15   that you expect to be better. But it's not setting off in some bold new direction. It's

01:12:20   kind of like, I don't know. It's an odd bird. And it's kind of like the beginning of something

01:12:26   new but it doesn't know what that is because we stop the cats, we start with the place

01:12:31   and it's kind of like a baby deer or whatever and they get up and stand up for the first

01:12:43   time on their big long legs and they're kind of tottering.

01:12:46   That's kind of like what Mavericks is.

01:12:47   But at the same time it has that vibe of like, well, there's that and there's also like,

01:12:52   well, they didn't go try to rip the entire house down and do something like they did

01:12:55   in iOS 7, so there is a comfort of familiarity there.

01:13:00   theme I hope people who read the review like it's hard because you like at a

01:13:03   certain point I'm pasting hex stumps of like you know X adder output into the

01:13:08   thing and you're like I've lost the plot now I don't know what's going on with

01:13:12   this review but I hope that theme runs throughout the review and I do try to

01:13:18   add another layer on top of that which is you know stupid snarky comments and

01:13:23   yes tons and tons of pop culture references and I feel like if you don't

01:13:26   understand any of the pop culture references that I put in there and no

01:13:29   one but me like is gonna get them all because they're all from my personal history. I feel

01:13:34   like you should still get the theme that I'm driving at. Like you shouldn't have to know,

01:13:38   have watched the same movies and TV shows and read the same books as I have to get what

01:13:42   I'm getting at. It should be there in the text, but for everybody else there is the

01:13:45   subtext laid on top of it and I hope that people who get those few little references

01:13:48   and find the little Easter eggs or whatever, that add something to it. But I never want

01:13:52   that to be the only thing. And the things I'm adding to it, I hope is building on that

01:13:56   theme, not just like, "Oh, and by the way, here's a funny thing from a TV show that's

01:14:01   totally unrelated to the theme of this review."

01:14:03   I've tried to make the references related to the theme of the review, including the

01:14:07   big one pop culture theme that runs throughout the entire thing that tries to tie it in.

01:14:11   And part of the reason I do that is because it amuses me and entertains me to write that

01:14:15   way.

01:14:16   But the other thing is I don't know what I'm going to do for a review until I basically

01:14:20   have the intro and the last line or the last paragraph in my head for the review.

01:14:26   And then it's just a matter of, OK, well, just fill in the 20k words in the middle,

01:14:29   and you're fine.

01:14:30   That's my process.

01:14:32   I need to know what that opening is like.

01:14:34   And the opening, the intro is taking me the longest

01:14:36   to write out of any of these things.

01:14:37   I think I spend more time on the intro than I do on the next 50% of the review.

01:14:42   It's the intro and then the conclusion.

01:14:44   And in the past years, I've been doing two conclusions.

01:14:46   One, the boring conclusion, which is the recommendation section, where

01:14:50   I try to tell you, should you buy it?

01:14:52   What are the factors involved?

01:14:53   What do I think of it?

01:14:54   And then there's the touchy-feely conclusion, which is what I end with, because that's what

01:14:57   I think about.

01:14:58   So if you haven't read the review or haven't finished it, which I don't blame you because

01:15:01   it's long, or never intended to finish it, I would encourage you to give it maybe another

01:15:05   try with what I just said in mind.

01:15:07   Hopefully it'll give you some sort of guide through the experience.

01:15:11   You can come out the other side, and we will talk more about the individual features of

01:15:15   Mavericks in future shows.

01:15:16   And I want to answer one question from the chat room, because someone was asking, and

01:15:19   many people have been asking this on Twitter.

01:15:21   That's a whole other meta-meta theme of people asking me questions about their view and that

01:15:25   whole feedback process, especially in the age of Twitter.

01:15:28   Why isn't the book available in the Mexican iBook store?

01:15:31   What?

01:15:32   Yeah.

01:15:33   So, I put it up in iBooks, and you can select what countries you want it to be available

01:15:39   in.

01:15:40   I selected all of the available countries, but some of them show up with a lot of red

01:15:43   lights because it says, "You do not have a contract to sell in this country.

01:15:46   You contact blah, blah, blah, whatever."

01:15:48   It's Condé Nast.

01:15:49   Conde Nast is the merchant account, Conde Nast is the parent company of Ars Technica.

01:15:54   And I don't know if it's just that particular company or whatever, but this book is for,

01:15:59   the iBook is for sale everywhere that I was able to put it up for sale.

01:16:02   I don't control whatever the deals are that Conde Nast has with these individual countries.

01:16:05   So it's not in New Zealand, it's not in Mexico, it's not in all sorts of countries, but it

01:16:08   is in 32 countries.

01:16:10   If you can't get it through the iBook store but you still want the iBook version, you

01:16:13   can subscribe to Ars Premier and get the exact same file, and also the Kindle version, and

01:16:18   and a PDF version, and a single page, web page version

01:16:20   without ads and all this other stuff.

01:16:22   We'll put the link in the show notes

01:16:23   to my blog post about it explaining all this stuff.

01:16:26   So it's not a choice on my part.

01:16:27   There's nothing I can do about it, but you can.

01:16:29   There is another way to get for the exact same price

01:16:31   the thing that you want to get.

01:16:34   So I think that's probably it for this week,

01:16:36   although I'm sure people wanted to hear more about Mavericks.

01:16:37   But by next week, both of you will have read it

01:16:39   and will have become prepared with questions for me

01:16:43   about various things.

01:16:44   Because I'm not just going to go through a section at a time

01:16:46   say on this page I talked about this like that's not gonna that's fine is

01:16:49   there a format or version of the article that you recommend the most if you

01:16:53   somebody you didn't even read my meta blog post he's just totally no that's

01:16:57   that's the after dark for the review I have to save it until after I've read

01:17:00   the review you can read that but you can read that before that's no spoilers

01:17:04   it's the same as the one last year I just copied and pasted the same damn

01:17:06   blog post from last okay which I admit in the thing like my plan was to read

01:17:10   the web version on the iPad so that I can follow all the links just in Safari

01:17:14   That's my personal favorite. I say, first of all, I spent all this time in paying getting

01:17:19   these damn retina screenshots, because I don't have a retina Mac. And believe me, this is

01:17:22   not a fun experience trying to go into high DPI mode and cram these gigantic windows onto

01:17:27   your non-retina screen and try to arrange them so you can get everything right. And

01:17:31   then it's my wife's computer, too. She's constantly chasing me to get off of her computer,

01:17:34   because she's the only one with a 27-inch screen, which can fit a reasonable-sized window

01:17:38   in in high DPI mode. So all those retina images, if you have access to a retina device, I highly

01:17:43   recommend reading it on a Retina device. I like doing long reading on my Retina iPad,

01:17:48   so I think that is the best experience. If you want to say, "What is the top-level experience

01:17:53   for me?" It's subscribe to Ars Premier, go to the article on your Retina iPad, and view

01:18:00   it on a single page with no ads, and just scroll through it and read it in one sitting.

01:18:05   Second after that, I would say, is read the web version broken up into pages, because

01:18:08   then you can remember you were on page 7 or something and not have to worry about retaining

01:18:11   your position in this giant long scrolling thing.

01:18:13   Yeah, that was my plan.

01:18:15   Again, do it on a retina Mac or something like that.

01:18:18   I really think the web version is the best version.

01:18:20   I say this every year, which doesn't make any sense,

01:18:22   because reading the web version is--

01:18:25   the e-book versions cost money.

01:18:27   The web version is free.

01:18:27   The free web version is the best one, I think,

01:18:29   as I explain at length with copy and paste of text

01:18:32   from last year's post explaining the same thing.

01:18:34   Maybe next year I'll be able to just link back to it and say,

01:18:36   read what I wrote last year.

01:18:37   That all applies this year.

01:18:38   Well, the right answer is to buy the Kindle version

01:18:40   and buy the iBooks version, but still read it on the web on an iPad.

01:18:43   Some people do that, and I thank them for it. And some people just like to have the e-book.

01:18:47   The e-books exist because people wanted them, not because I thought it was a great idea. I

01:18:51   didn't think anyone would. Why would anyone pay for an e-book that somebody can get for three?

01:18:54   But people want to read the way they want to read, so you want it? We will provide it. Go nuts.

01:18:58   In Marco's defense, I was going to ask you that question, even though I knew the answer,

01:19:02   just because I felt like it might be worthwhile to have it stated on the show

01:19:07   that the canonical version is the Ars Technica web version.

01:19:10   On or righting the device, preferably a full-size iPad.

01:19:13   Yeah, and that makes the text look nicer, too. The only partly objectionable experience to reading

01:19:21   on the web is I do use a lot of links in my writing, and I think that's good, and I like

01:19:26   that some people don't. That's why I think you should read it in Safari on an iPad, because you

01:19:30   can visit the links without leaving to another application or whatever, and nicely go back and

01:19:34   and forth and retain state of where you were and everything.

01:19:36   But the link color is ours, uses for both the non-visited and visited links.

01:19:41   Make it so lots of links in a paragraph, ug it up a little bit.

01:19:44   Like they're not subtle, it's like orange and blue.

01:19:46   Did you say "ug"?

01:19:47   Yeah, I said "ug it up."

01:19:49   Yeah.

01:19:50   And they do.

01:19:51   And I don't pick the colors for the site design, and the colors are not—most people who write

01:19:57   for ours do not use the density of links that I do.

01:19:59   And if you're scared by the first page, where like every other word looks like it's a link,

01:20:03   they do thin out later, and my big thing with linking is

01:20:07   I think they're super important and I don't want anyone to read a sentence and

01:20:10   not know what I'm talking about. Like, if they read over something and, like, they read

01:20:13   some word and they make some off-handed mention of core animation and they have

01:20:16   no idea what core animation is,

01:20:18   I don't want to just leave them there hanging and think they're going to

01:20:20   Google core animation.

01:20:21   I want to link them back directly to the section where I describe what core

01:20:24   animation is in detail two years ago or whatever.

01:20:26   That's why I put the links there. You know what core animation is and you're sick of mousing

01:20:30   over the stupid links to see where they go or whatever and eventually you ignore them.

01:20:32   That's fine, but I want to bring everybody along

01:20:34   So you shouldn't need to follow the link to understand it. If you know what core animation is, don't follow the link

01:20:39   that's linked to core animation, right? And some of them are snarky and some of them is adding information in the sentence

01:20:43   But they should never be necessary

01:20:44   You should be able to remove every single link from this review

01:20:46   And it still makes sense if you have all the background knowledge that you need to have

01:20:50   But I'm not going to go into detail of explaining, you know, what virtual memory is or something

01:20:55   If I talk about virtual memory, I'm going to link it to lots of Wikipedia pages

01:21:00   It's mostly like what is this?

01:21:01   I don't want you to stop in the middle of a sentence and say I don't know what that

01:21:04   noun or proper noun is or I don't understand this concept or this three-letter acronym

01:21:08   And I know you're not gonna go google it

01:21:10   But if you can just click a link and I'll take you directly to precisely the pace to explain exactly what that thing is

01:21:15   Then you can resume reading

01:21:17   No, I agree with you. I like the links

01:21:19   So so I'm saying like if I pick the link color for Ars Technica

01:21:23   I would pick a link color that blends more nicely with the writing, but I don't pick it

01:21:27   So that's the only one downside to reading it, the web version versus one of the ebooks,

01:21:33   because ebooks do use, depending on how your readers configure it, do use nicer link colors.

01:21:38   Anything else?

01:21:39   Let's wrap it up.

01:21:40   Thanks a lot to our two sponsors this week, Squarespace and Hover, and we will see you

01:21:45   next week with tons of questions for Jon, because I will probably have done my homework.

01:21:49   Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin

01:21:56   Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:22:01   John didn't do any research, Margo and Casey wouldn't let him

01:22:07   Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:22:12   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:22:18   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:22:22   @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:22:27   So that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:22:31   Auntie Marco Arment S-I-R-A-C

01:22:36   U-S-A-C-R-A-C-Uza

01:22:39   It's accidental (It's accidental)

01:22:42   They didn't mean to

01:22:44   Accidental (Accidental)

01:22:47   Tech.cast so long

01:22:52   Will that be the first time you've ever done your homework?

01:22:54   You can do lots of homework, because I don't have to prepare.

01:22:58   And you guys do.

01:22:59   Finally. You've been preparing for the last, like, you know, five months or whatever.

01:23:03   Yeah, by next week I will have forgotten everything.

01:23:05   So I'll have to frequently consult through it. It's like after you take the test, all the knowledge leaves your head.

01:23:10   Thank God I never need all that again.

01:23:13   Let's blame the listeners.

01:23:14   We'll say that we're giving them time to read it and prepare their own questions into

01:23:20   our feedback form rather than, "I didn't do my homework because I was out all day."

01:23:23   Yeah, I think there's a lot of people like, "Oh, I don't want to read the review.

01:23:26   It's too long and boring.

01:23:27   I just want to hear an audio summary of it."

01:23:29   But it's better if you read it and then—it's like The Incomparable.

01:23:32   It's better if you watch the movie or TV show or read the book and then listen to The

01:23:35   Incomparable talking about it.

01:23:36   You don't want to do the reverse.

01:23:37   So if you're still listening, go out there and read the review and come back next week.

01:23:42   Plenty of time to read it.

01:23:43   Yeah, I mean, I think I did my meta review last year. I think it only took me like an

01:23:47   hour and 40 minutes or something like that. It doesn't take like hours and hours and

01:23:52   hours to read this thing. It's not that ridiculous.

01:23:54   I mean, it does if you don't know what I'm talking about. Like, if you don't know all

01:23:56   the background, that's what all those links are in there for. If you read it and you're

01:23:59   like, "What the hell are they talking about? Forrestal? What? I don't know who these

01:24:03   people are." Well, click the link and you'll find the story about, you know, like, you

01:24:07   just keep going back and it'll be, "Who was Forrestal? Why did he leave? What was

01:24:10   the hubbub about about them. Everyone who's reading that kind of has a vague idea of what

01:24:14   that's about for context, but if you don't, there's links. And if you do that, you could

01:24:18   be there for a long time. It's like getting lost in a Wikipedia maze, where you just keep

01:24:23   going back and back until you're on the page for philosophy inevitably, and you're like,

01:24:27   "Oh." You see that? With the number of links it takes from any Wikipedia page to end up

01:24:31   on the philosophy page.

01:24:33   That's amazing.

01:24:34   No.

01:24:35   That's where they all dead end, I think.

01:24:36   Now, you want to do titles?

01:24:38   We have a ton of amazing ones.

01:24:40   What was the one that Marco picked last week? Like, he was totally not going to pick it

01:24:43   on the air, but then I saw the episode?

01:24:45   Sea Level Executives.

01:24:46   Yeah. Could you not resist that, or what?

01:24:50   Your joke was so bad, and it was just like... There weren't any other that were really awesome,

01:24:55   and that one ended up being really awesome, because...

01:24:58   I think you just wanted to put in my explanation in the aftershow.

01:25:01   Well, actually, I decided to put that in before I decided to name it that. But it was just...

01:25:08   It was so funny because you thought it was so funny.

01:25:12   And your enthusiasm for it made it funnier.

01:25:15   - It actually is funny.

01:25:16   That's the secret.

01:25:17   (laughing)

01:25:19   Now here's the thing about it.

01:25:20   The thing about it is that actual,

01:25:22   like the letter C hyphen level looks awful.

01:25:25   It's just terrible.

01:25:26   It's one of those terrible business phrases

01:25:27   like sunsetting or the C level executives.

01:25:30   It is just terrible in all the ways

01:25:32   that made up jargon is terrible.

01:25:34   But when you change it to C level,

01:25:36   it's like, "Oh, yeah, now we're onto something. Who doesn't love the C? C-level executives.

01:25:40   It sounds interesting and classy and pure and does not like C-level."

01:25:45   John, are you really f***ing trying to sell this joke still?

01:25:49   It's not really a joke. I'm just saying it's a much nicer phrase than C-level. The joke

01:25:52   is, if you want to find it in there, is how awful C-level is with the letter C as compared

01:25:58   to the SEA. But anyway, Marco came around on his own.

01:26:03   executives. Crickets. Did you hear the after show from last week? I know you don't usually

01:26:09   listen to the posted one, Jon, but—

01:26:11   I don't listen to the posted one. I listen to every single posted episode. What are you

01:26:13   talking about?

01:26:14   Oh, I thought you didn't listen to—

01:26:15   I listen to every podcast I'm on. Always. The posted version. Every single one.

01:26:19   Oh. I did not realize—

01:26:21   If you had been a faithful hyper critic listener, you would know that, but you know, whatever.

01:26:25   No, I—

01:26:26   Oh, now you're just plain dirty. I was a very faithful hyper critic.

01:26:30   You didn't hear that one off-handed comment I made in the umpteen hours of Hyperknot.

01:26:33   Thank you.

01:26:34   Thank you, sir.

01:26:35   Apology accepted.

01:26:36   Yeah, you heard it.

01:26:37   All right.

01:26:38   But yeah, no, I do.

01:26:40   I always listen to it, because it's not—so you can hear how terrible I am and say, "Oh,

01:26:46   I'll try not to do that again," and then I do it again next week.

01:26:48   But if you repeat that over two years, you do it less.

01:26:50   [ Silence ]