35: Sea-Level Executives


00:00:00   you can use that uh that marker arm and plus 30 minutes skip button at this point if you uh if you

00:00:05   interested at all right but um by the way great idea huh wouldn't be great to have a plus 30

00:00:10   minutes skip button you get to john stu acusa's second bullet point singleton boston that's all

00:00:17   i have to say oh you are such a baby i would the chance to be going to that one are much higher

00:00:23   oh they're still mediocre at best let's be honest no i would say they're over 50 wow

00:00:29   If they did it like next door to your house, would it be like, you know, 60% chance of you going?

00:00:36   I mean, I guess it really depends on the timing of OS X releases, because this year,

00:00:40   even if it was in Boston, like I did, while you guys were there doing your thing in Singleton,

00:00:44   I was doing review stuff. So that review stuff would not have gotten done if I was there.

00:00:50   Since you brought it up, how's it going?

00:00:51   So they made the announcement of the October 22nd whatever iPad, whatever Apple special event

00:00:59   with no mention of a price or a date. At this point I am resigned to the fact that I'm not

00:01:06   going to know a price or a date until the public knows and when will the public know? Maybe they'll

00:01:11   know on the 22nd. Maybe the release matter is on the 22nd. So I just have to plan for that. So the

00:01:15   current plan is act as if Apple is going to announce on stage on the 22nd, "Oh and by

00:01:21   the way, Mavericks is available for download now at such and such a price."

00:01:25   And that means I have to have an ebook ready to purchase on the 22nd.

00:01:31   Which means I have to submit the ebook probably tomorrow, which means I had to get all the

00:01:36   information finalized in the review, make sure it's somewhat coherent even though it

00:01:41   does not contain information about pricing.

00:01:43   it can't because I don't know. And so that's what I did before the podcast was got that

00:01:49   ebook ready. I haven't actually submitted it yet because I'm waiting on one last pass

00:01:54   of copy editing and then tomorrow I'm going to submit it. Got it. I don't know if you

00:01:57   guys have ever used iTunes producer.

00:01:59   Nope.

00:02:00   Nope.

00:02:01   Just like Apple too. I mean I haven't used iTunes connect but there's iTunes connect.

00:02:06   Is that an app that you run on your Mac as well?

00:02:08   No thank God. Although it's you know actually I don't know if that would make it better

00:02:12   or worse. I mean, you could make a pretty terrible native app too.

00:02:16   I was going to say that this, like, in any other system, for example, like Amazon or

00:02:20   whatever, and their things have their own terrible problems, but you would expect this

00:02:23   to be a web app. Hey, there's a store somewhere on the internet where you can buy digital

00:02:27   media, and if you're a producer of digital media, you can upload things to that store

00:02:31   and put them for sale. And you totally expect that to be a web application, but instead

00:02:35   it's this native Mac application, not a particularly nice native Mac application, with tons and

00:02:40   tons of fields with insufficient room to type in them and not very nicely laid out and you

00:02:46   have to go be looking through the giant PDF documentation to figure out what all the fields

00:02:50   mean and just you have to do all this stuff locally and save it into this big giant package

00:02:56   file and then hit this thing that uploads the whole package to Apple.

00:02:59   Versus being like a web application where you piecemeal add the metadata, add the data

00:03:03   and slowly get the book ready like online where you can see what it's going to look

00:03:06   like before you finally submit it here.

00:03:08   do everything at once and then press a button and then it just like shoves the whole thing

00:03:11   up to Apple.

00:03:12   And then if you want to modify any information, I think you have to modify it locally again,

00:03:17   but only certain fields you can modify and then shove it back up.

00:03:19   I don't know.

00:03:20   This experience is not confidence inspiring and it is definitely a little bit scary that

00:03:25   you have to do all this stuff locally and then press one button and then like, you know,

00:03:29   the thing sails off into the sunset.

00:03:32   And then presumably it's rejected.

00:03:33   Like, I'm assuming that's the next phase.

00:03:35   Nice.

00:03:36   Well that isn't actually that different from the way Xcode apps are uploaded now.

00:03:41   Back three years ago or so, it was basically used to web form.

00:03:46   And there was a separate uploader app that you could use to upload for submissions, but

00:03:52   you didn't have to use it and you'd only ever use it, I think, if it was above a certain

00:03:55   size where the web form would time out or something like that.

00:03:58   Now though, I think you have to always use Xcode's built-in native uploader.

00:04:04   And it's actually kind of nice because you still do all the metadata entry on the web

00:04:09   interface, which is probably good because even though it's a pretty terrible web interface,

00:04:15   I can't imagine the native version would be substantially better because the reason

00:04:20   iTunes connects as a terrible web interface is not because web interfaces have to be terrible,

00:04:24   it's because Apple doesn't really care that much about it being good.

00:04:27   And so obviously they could have the same problem with native app.

00:04:31   But it is nice to have, like for an app,

00:04:34   they run a whole bunch of validation steps locally.

00:04:37   And then they run a whole bunch more on the server side

00:04:39   as soon as you submit.

00:04:41   And so it can have a nice little feedback mechanism there.

00:04:44   Also, it takes care of some of the code signing stuff way

00:04:47   better than it did before.

00:04:49   So it is nice having that blend of native and web

00:04:52   for this kind of thing.

00:04:53   I think it's more just a matter of how much Apple cares

00:04:56   about getting it right.

00:04:58   And with iTunes Connect, they've had a pretty bad record of that.

00:05:03   It's not that it's always terrible, but it's never great.

00:05:07   Yeah, a lot of my trepidation about this is because this is my first one.

00:05:10   So obviously after I do the first one, I'll sort of know what to expect.

00:05:14   Like I'm just pouring over the documentation to make sure, like for example, the on-sale

00:05:19   date of the book, I have to make sure that's editable after I submit.

00:05:22   And the documentation says it is, but like, not, I would like to say it in bold with arrows

00:05:28   pointing to the thing and saying "Yes, totally, you can submit a book with a for-sale date

00:05:33   in the future, and then if, for example, Mavericks is not released on the 22nd, I need to change

00:05:38   the sale date because I can't put the thing on sale until Mavericks comes out," and so

00:05:42   on and so forth.

00:05:43   So that seems to be the case, I think everything is all in line for that, although I may set

00:05:47   the date to the 23rd just in case, because if the date really is editable I can always

00:05:51   set it back to the 22nd, right? But if the date isn't editable, at least I have the 22nd

00:05:56   to run around like a chicken with my head cut off trying to get Apple to make sure the

00:05:59   book doesn't go for sale on the 23rd.

00:06:00   Yeah, I mean, if it works on anything like the App Store, the way people try to do controlled

00:06:05   releases there, you can either do the hold for release and then you click a button and

00:06:09   it starts going. But the other thing you could do, which helps a little bit to avoid some

00:06:14   of the cache delays, is to release it with an availability date way in the future. And

00:06:20   And then when you write it to your release, set the availability date way in the past.

00:06:24   And then it updates and it gets submitted.

00:06:29   It becomes available faster than I think any other method, but I'm not entirely sure

00:06:34   on that.

00:06:35   So what system do they have for setting the price?

00:06:37   Do you have to set the price in all the various regions that the store is in?

00:06:40   No, you set the price tier, which basically is like the first digit of the price in the

00:06:46   U.S.

00:06:47   And then they have this big chart to show what that is in all the different other currencies.

00:06:50   But you pick tier one is 99 cents in the US and so on to everyone else.

00:06:56   So that's why all the prices are pretty much locked into that and are all the same.

00:07:00   Yeah, it's the same thing with the tiering in the iJUNGIS Producer, but it does it in

00:07:03   like a native Mac GUI with this sort of having all the fields.

00:07:07   I think they're all independently editable, but then you have to select them all and then

00:07:10   do a mass edit to edit all of them.

00:07:13   For example, I picked the wrong type for the book.

00:07:16   The choices were new release, digital only, and other.

00:07:20   And being the typical person that I am,

00:07:23   instead of stopping and going to the documentation

00:07:24   and seeing which one it was,

00:07:25   I was like, well, I'll just pick new release for now.

00:07:27   And then I looked up what it was later,

00:07:28   I said, oh, actually, I should have picked digital only.

00:07:31   So I went to change it to digital only,

00:07:33   and digital only was the only choice in the pop-up menu

00:07:35   when I selected all of the items.

00:07:36   So I had to select each individual territory

00:07:38   and change that pop-up menu 200 and something times.

00:07:40   So that was fun.

00:07:42   - Nice.

00:07:43   - Yeah, it's not the experience I want.

00:07:45   I feel better, in general, I feel better when I'm using a web form to edit information that's

00:07:53   on a server, kind of like the server is the source of truth and then I'm just editing

00:07:57   it versus having some local thing that I edit and then submit and then I can edit the local

00:08:03   thing again and resubmit and what happens is the diffs get applied or maybe just totally

00:08:07   replaces the content.

00:08:08   I feel more comfortable picking away at something, slowly making it better when it's all uploaded

00:08:14   piece at a time into a web interface and then finally adding a button, versus doing all of that

00:08:18   locally, which of course I can only do on a single machine unless I put the thing in my Dropbox, and

00:08:22   I don't know. We'll see how it goes. So have you gotten to the point that you are writing

00:08:28   four different versions of the pricing paragraph or paragraphs or section or whatever based on $10,

00:08:33   $20, $30, and free? Yeah, I wish it was only that section because the other parts of the review make

00:08:41   oblique reference to the price in various places. So yeah, I have a version of three different versions

00:08:47   and then plus all the other places in the review where I allude to those versions and I tried to

00:08:53   make the illusions vague enough that they could fit no matter what the price ends up being. But

00:08:58   it's all just very annoying. This is a new complication because in every past year

00:09:01   they've always announced the date and the price well in advance and this year they're not for some

00:09:08   reason. I think it's just to troll you, if I'm not mistaken. It is pretty annoying.

00:09:13   I would not have—if you would say, "How could you annoy me the most? This would not

00:09:16   have occurred to me." But it is pretty darn annoying. I have to imagine if

00:09:22   somebody really tries to annoy you, it can't be that hard to come up with a way.

00:09:26   Well, you know, last year was the Amazon stuff, and I'm sure—I fully predict this

00:09:31   year when we upload the book to Amazon, it will also inexplicably not be

00:09:34   downloadable onto the iPad because the odds of Amazon having fixed this problem seem slim

00:09:39   to me because last year when I went through it all, I heard from lots of other people

00:09:43   like, "Yeah, that totally happened to me. It's been happening for a long time."

00:09:46   It's not. I wasn't the first person this happened to, and I'm sure I won't be the

00:09:50   last. In fact, it may happen to me again. Why did it happen? What makes it happen? What

00:09:54   fixes it? Who knows?

00:09:56   Yeah, if Amazon's system for uploading e-books is anything at all like their system for Kindle

00:10:03   Kindle publications and publishing a magazine on the Kindle, I feel very sorry for you because

00:10:10   that was miserable.

00:10:12   Well, the good thing about the Amazon system is you submit and then a reasonable amount

00:10:17   of time later, it appears. I don't think a human ever looks at it. So it's somewhat predictable

00:10:24   in that respect, but because a human never looks at it, you probably have a difficult

00:10:30   time getting a human to fix something about it, which was the problem last year.

00:10:33   And the other thing is, I don't know how long that delay is going to be.

00:10:36   I think it's like 24 hours or something like that, but you can't pick a for sale date.

00:10:41   So you submit and then wait, wait, wait, and then it's for sale, which really doesn't go

00:10:46   well with not knowing the release date, because if someone gets on stage on the 22nd and says,

00:10:52   "Maverick's is out today," then I can submit to the Amazon store and then wait 24 hours

00:10:58   for the Amazon version to be available, which is not ideal.

00:11:01   Yeah, this is kind of a world of hurt for you, isn't it?

00:11:05   Yeah, I don't know why it has to be so difficult, but really, nobody cares about the one guy

00:11:10   writing the review.

00:11:12   If it's good for customers and good for developers, you have the hierarchy of what's good for

00:11:16   Apple, then what's good for its users, and then maybe some other stuff, and then what's

00:11:21   good for developers, and then everything else in the universe, and then what's good for

00:11:24   the one guy writing a review about one of our products.

00:11:29   - Nice.

00:11:30   - Well, let's change yours for a second

00:11:32   to a company that does care about its customers

00:11:34   and John Syracuse.

00:11:36   It is Transporter by Connected Data.

00:11:39   So Transporter, here's the thing about Transporter.

00:11:42   It's a little hard to describe for a second,

00:11:45   so give me a second here.

00:11:46   If you like Dropbox, then you'll love Transporter.

00:11:51   So Transporter is basically a hard drive enclosure

00:11:55   with network connectivity and software

00:11:58   that goes on your Mac and your iOS and Android,

00:12:00   I think, Android?

00:12:01   I should check on that.

00:12:02   At least your iOS devices.

00:12:06   Would you guys check on that, please?

00:12:08   Software that goes on your Mac and various mobile devices.

00:12:12   And it behaves like Dropbox in the nice Finder integration

00:12:18   and being able to share a link with people

00:12:20   automatic syncing to other transporter devices, but you own this enclosure and you own the

00:12:27   hard drive within it and all the data is stored on that hard drive. It's not stored in their

00:12:33   servers somewhere. It's not stored somewhere the NSA can get a secret request and get it

00:12:39   in without you knowing. And all transportation of the data between transporters and over

00:12:44   the internet and everything is all encrypted, end-to-end encryption. Oh, and thanks, Casey.

00:12:50   Yes, apparently the apps are also available on Android.

00:12:53   You can tell how many Android devices

00:12:54   that we use in this podcast.

00:12:57   But so Transporter, they used to do this major 2.0 software

00:13:01   update about a month ago.

00:13:03   And they really made it much more nicely integrated

00:13:06   with the Finder.

00:13:07   And you can share a folder with other Transporter users.

00:13:10   You can share files with anybody.

00:13:13   You can just get a link to share.

00:13:15   It's really-- everything you can think

00:13:18   that's cool about Dropbox, the public links, the sharing, the collaboration,

00:13:22   you can do with Transporter, but with so many better features

00:13:26   and you can get way more space on the Transporter for

00:13:30   way less money. Dropbox charges, let's say you wanted like a terabyte

00:13:34   of data, a one terabyte Transporter costs about

00:13:38   300 bucks, Dropbox charges about 500 dollars per year for that,

00:13:42   excuse me, Dropbox charges 500 dollars a year for half as much storage.

00:13:46   So if you want to store more than a few gigs on Dropbox,

00:13:50   you're probably going to have a substantial savings

00:13:52   if you want to move that to Transporter.

00:13:54   So you can buy as many of these things as you want.

00:13:57   You can buy one for your home.

00:13:58   You can buy one for your work and it'll automatically sync.

00:14:01   You can buy one for your work, one for your parents' house,

00:14:04   have it sync there to have an offsite backup,

00:14:06   multiple people on a team like our team, the three of us.

00:14:09   We all live in different places.

00:14:10   We can all collaborate by putting files on our Transporters

00:14:13   and they will all-- we can have a folder that's

00:14:16   like the ATP folder that syncs between all of our devices.

00:14:19   So we have all these capabilities.

00:14:22   Even if you just have one, you can still

00:14:24   have your own computer accessing it,

00:14:27   you accessing it from your mobile device

00:14:29   from anywhere you are as long as your home internet connection

00:14:31   works, and being able to email the share links and all

00:14:34   these other features.

00:14:35   So really, it is quite good.

00:14:38   They even have a thing where they can--

00:14:40   similar to the Dropbox app, where

00:14:42   you can launch it on your iPhone and there's

00:14:44   There's a feature where it can upload all your photos to the

00:14:48   Dropbox.

00:14:48   Well, Transporter has a similar feature.

00:14:50   But unlike the Dropbox one, they upload their photos in

00:14:53   full resolution because they have a lot more space to play

00:14:56   around with because you have these terabyte drives in

00:14:58   there.

00:14:58   So if you want to get your own Transporter, which I highly

00:15:03   suggest, they sell it--

00:15:05   it's an enclosure, so they sell it empty.

00:15:07   And you can supply your own 2 and 1/2 inch drive, any

00:15:10   capacity.

00:15:12   They sell empty for a special price right now because through November 11th they're

00:15:17   having a sale for us if you use coupon code ATP50.

00:15:22   Special sale $50 off from their store.

00:15:25   This is pretty good.

00:15:26   This is the biggest sale I've seen them do.

00:15:28   They've been sponsoring great podcasts for a while so that's saying a lot.

00:15:32   Anyway, they sell empty.

00:15:34   You supply your own hard drive for just $149 with this sale.

00:15:38   Regular price is $199.

00:15:39   This is $50 off.

00:15:41   Or you can get it one terabyte for just $249 on sale and two terabytes for just $349 on

00:15:47   sale.

00:15:48   And again, that sale is valid through November 11, 2013 using coupon code ATP50 at checkout

00:15:54   from filetransporter.com/ATP.

00:15:57   So once again, it's Transporter.

00:15:59   It's awesome.

00:16:00   You want it, go get it.

00:16:02   It is filetransporter.com/ATP, coupon code ATP50, all uppercase.

00:16:07   Thank you very much to Transporter for sponsoring the show.

00:16:10   I'm gonna ask in the chatroom why it's a 2.5 inch drive instead of a 3.5 because you know

00:16:15   you can get more space for less money in a 3.5.

00:16:17   I don't think people realize how small these things are.

00:16:20   It is not a big gigantic thing the size of a bowling pin, the kind of shape it is.

00:16:26   It is very small.

00:16:27   Not only is it small, it is silent, which I like.

00:16:31   So unlike Apple's, you know, what do you call it, the new wireless hub thing that's like

00:16:36   a giant shoebox turned on its end and has a fan in it. This does not, or if it does

00:16:41   have a fan I can't hear it, we're just saying something. And these things are tiny.

00:16:45   Like, you could, you know, I was talking about it on a past show, having a whole bunch of

00:16:48   these things like all over your house and all over your office, you could do that, because

00:16:52   they connect to power and Ethernet, and they are very small and they're silent. So that's

00:16:56   why they're 2.5.

00:16:58   They do glow, though, I will warn you. I wouldn't recommend putting it like right next to your

00:17:01   face in a bedroom.

00:17:02   But it's a pleasant glow.

00:17:03   It's not like one of those, like this has a light that changes color around the circle,

00:17:07   but it's not like one of those blue LEDs that like, you know what those are like on electronics

00:17:11   that shine right in your eye.

00:17:13   I'm so glad that era of electronics design is over.

00:17:16   Oh, it's not.

00:17:17   I just got a new dishwasher and it lights up the room in the dark with its blue LEDs

00:17:23   in the front of it.

00:17:24   Not that I care because, you know, it's running at night when nobody's in there, but it is

00:17:26   bright.

00:17:29   That's a feature.

00:17:30   It's when you go downstairs, you see where you're going.

00:17:31   I kind of have been using it.

00:17:32   It's like a night light now.

00:17:33   If the fishwasher's running, you can see, but it's an eerie blue glow.

00:17:37   Anyway, thanks for transporting our sponsor right in the channel.

00:17:42   Well done.

00:17:43   Okay, what else we got to talk about?

00:17:46   So there's a new Apple employee joining an executive who finally is a woman, which

00:17:54   is excellent.

00:17:55   Although, still has an unpronounceable name.

00:17:58   Yep, you'll notice I didn't try.

00:18:00   Yeah, no one looked that up. I figured at least one of you would have looked. I figured you would. It's Angela.

00:18:06   Very well done.

00:18:08   Arentz? That seems reasonable. Yeah, it sounds right to me. Here's the interesting thing about her.

00:18:14   They hired the CEO of another company to be the not CEO of their company.

00:18:20   I thought that too. Which does not happen that often in the corporate world where someone leaves a CEO position of like a

00:18:26   significant company, like your CEO of your five person company, right? A CEO of a big company

00:18:31   basically is taking a step down. She used to be the one in charge, now she's not. And granted,

00:18:38   they seem to be throwing lots of money at her, but that's a little bit of the magic of Apple or any high-profile

00:18:44   company where you can pull a CEO away from another company. That is very difficult to do. So it really must have been

00:18:49   a heck of a pitch and they must have really wanted her and, you know, she must have bought it. That, yeah,

00:18:56   she's going to go there and stop selling sugar water and change the world, right?

00:19:01   Except in this case, it's what? Plaid scarves?

00:19:03   Yeah. I didn't know what this store was. I had to Google Burberry because I had never

00:19:08   heard of it before. Well, I had heard the name, but if someone had told me that Burberry

00:19:12   sold electronics or housewares, I would have believed them because I had no idea what that

00:19:18   store was about. Did either of you know what the store sold?

00:19:21   I still don't. I honestly did.

00:19:24   I think it's closed, right?

00:19:25   What?

00:19:26   It's closed.

00:19:27   Oh, I thought you said closed as in not open anymore.

00:19:30   I was very confused.

00:19:31   No, it's all closed.

00:19:32   The CEO left.

00:19:33   They're just shutting down.

00:19:34   Yeah, seriously.

00:19:35   Sorry.

00:19:36   Giving up.

00:19:37   Yes.

00:19:38   No, my understanding, and I didn't think to look this up or ask about it, so I'm sure

00:19:39   I'll get a thousand emails.

00:19:41   Email Marco.

00:19:42   I thought it was a clothing store, sure, but it's kind of focused around a particular pattern,

00:19:47   and it's like a plaid-ish pattern.

00:19:50   And yeah, that's kind of their thing.

00:19:53   It's like their, what is the purse with the Louis Vuitton where you always see like the

00:19:58   L and the Vs.

00:20:00   That's like their only pattern or so it appears.

00:20:02   Well this is, they have that one plaid that's their only pattern.

00:20:05   We're going to get it so much trouble.

00:20:06   I know.

00:20:07   Email markup.

00:20:08   Unlike the L and the V, my understanding is that this pattern is actually, you know, is

00:20:12   an old thing.

00:20:13   The L and the V I believe is new and I think they did that because you can't copyright

00:20:17   a, like, you know, a fashion design but you can copyright a logo.

00:20:22   So that's why everyone puts a logo all over their stuff, because that's the one thing

00:20:24   you have some legal recourse to protect from.

00:20:27   By the way, the chat room is trying to correct our pronunciation of this song, saying it's

00:20:30   Burberry, not Burberry, or whatever.

00:20:33   But they're gonna have us saying Aluminium soon, so I don't know if we can take any pronunciation

00:20:38   advice from the people over there.

00:20:40   Well, no, Aluminium is patently wrong.

00:20:43   But a friend of mine, Eric Wielander, put in the chat a picture to the plaid I'm referring

00:20:47   to.

00:20:48   And so if we remember, we'll put that in the show notes.

00:20:50   I can make up the episode artwork for this week.

00:20:52   You should.

00:20:53   Actually, I'm not even kidding.

00:20:54   That would be really funny.

00:20:55   I might.

00:20:56   I don't know.

00:20:58   What's interesting is she's being brought into this job of retail chief, which is basically

00:21:03   like the job of doom at Apple.

00:21:06   How many people have had this job in the last decade?

00:21:09   Ron Johnson was the guy, right?

00:21:11   He's the one who made that job an important job because previously Apple didn't have a

00:21:15   retail store.

00:21:16   So he was the guy.

00:21:17   And then they brought in another guy from the UK, right?

00:21:19   guy who was the head of Dixon's or something, or I don't know if he was the head of it or

00:21:23   whatever, but I also didn't know what that store was, even if I'm remembering the name

00:21:27   correctly. And they brought him in, and that didn't work out, and he went away, and they

00:21:33   were looking for somebody else for a long time, and now they found someone else.

00:21:36   Well, that's a lot.

00:21:37   Yeah, I mean, it's not good, but when they brought that guy in, everyone said, "Oh, boy,

00:21:41   we predict doom for this guy," and they were like, "Oh," because the stores he ran were

00:21:44   not Apple-type stores. They were kind of like more, you know, not as premium, high-end type

00:21:51   of stuff. Like, "Well, who knows? He must be a great guy, Apple. You know, Apple must

00:21:54   be good at hiring. They wouldn't just hire some random guy." And he did the things -- John

00:21:58   Broward was his name, thanks Chat Room -- and he did the things that people expected him

00:22:02   to do. You know, regular -- if you think of someone who runs a retail store, just the

00:22:06   average person who runs a retail store chain or whatever, the things they do are not Apple-like

00:22:12   things. It's just a bunch of workers. You try to pay the workers as little as possible.

00:22:19   You try to sell the customers gold USB cables like Marco had to do, right? And you try to

00:22:24   do all these terrible things because that's how you get ahead in retail.

00:22:28   To be fair, I'm not sure I sold a single one.

00:22:30   Well, the ones you refuse to sell. So that's what we think of when we think of retail.

00:22:35   But it's not what we think of when we think of Apple retail. So it's like, well, it must

00:22:38   be difficult for them to find someone who does retail because if you bring in the best

00:22:41   retail guy in the world, they're going to come into Apple's thing and say, "Oh no, you're

00:22:44   doing it all wrong here, Apple. You're paying your employees too much. You have too much

00:22:47   staff in the store." All sorts of things. I can show you how you can cut your costs

00:22:52   in half and it won't hurt your business at all. You'll see. And so he came in, did a

00:22:57   bunch of stuff that made the retail store employees angry and made the experience of

00:23:02   being in the Apple store worse, and then they canned him. So maybe this person has a better

00:23:06   chance of not doing all of those things that regular retail stores do.

00:23:14   You would think it'd be kind of like a dream job for somebody who is well-minded in the

00:23:20   sense that normally, retail is just a terrible business because everything's all about just

00:23:25   these very, very, usually very thin profit margins, very cutthroat business. You got

00:23:31   to have as many people as possible not working full-time so you don't have to pay their benefits.

00:23:36   and then you gotta shave off hours

00:23:37   so you have just enough people to run the store,

00:23:40   but no more than that so that you aren't wasting money

00:23:43   on labor and you have all these terrible high school

00:23:47   and college kids running everything

00:23:48   and they have no training and no time for training

00:23:51   and everyone steals everything.

00:23:53   It's just a terrible business.

00:23:54   Whereas in the Apple store,

00:23:56   because they have some profit margin to play with

00:23:59   and because they value things like customer experience

00:24:03   and service wait times and quality of the stores

00:24:06   and stuff like that, then it feels like somebody

00:24:10   who wanted to make a really good retail store

00:24:13   would see this as like a dream job

00:24:15   because they have the resources to actually do things well

00:24:19   and to do good quality things

00:24:22   and to do the regular things well.

00:24:24   Whereas in most other companies,

00:24:26   you don't have that kind of power

00:24:27   because they can't afford it.

00:24:28   - Yeah, but wouldn't you think that she would be handcuffed

00:24:33   by what Ron Johnson did while he was at Apple.

00:24:36   What I mean by that is the Apple stores seem to have a pretty good thing going right now

00:24:41   and a pretty good kind of feel to them.

00:24:44   Of course, there's always room for improvement, but why mess with what is working?

00:24:51   If she's brought in and has all these grand visions, which she very well may have, is

00:24:55   she going to be allowed to do them or is it wise to do them if Apple retail is doing pretty

00:25:00   well?

00:25:01   Here's the thing about Apple retail, the curse of success.

00:25:04   This is true of if anyone has ever been an employee

00:25:06   of a company that finds itself being very successful.

00:25:09   That is an extremely dangerous situation

00:25:12   because as I believe, who was it?

00:25:14   As Ed Catmull said in his talk

00:25:18   that I paroded heavily on Hypercritical,

00:25:20   but whose name I can't remember right now.

00:25:22   I think he was talking to some business people

00:25:24   at Stanford or something.

00:25:25   Success hides problems.

00:25:27   So Apple has been very successful in the past,

00:25:30   know, seven, ten years, which means that more and more people are going into Apple

00:25:35   retail stores and buying stuff. And you keep seeing the statistics about how the

00:25:38   number, the amount of money made per square foot of store space is so high in

00:25:42   Apple stores and Apple sells tons and tons of stuff. And you can do all sorts

00:25:47   of terrible wrong things during that period. As long as your sales keep going

00:25:50   up and up and up, everyone's like, "Hey, thumbs up, boy, you're a great retail chief.

00:25:53   Look at our sales numbers, they're doing great." And how much is that? Is that

00:25:56   because of you or in spite of you? Because when you're on that rocket ship,

00:26:00   but it's hard to tell, is this because of what I'm doing?

00:26:02   Is it because these stores are so awesome?

00:26:04   Or is it because Apple's products are so awesome?

00:26:06   Or is it just like the strange coincidence of events?

00:26:09   And if you look at the trend in Apple stores,

00:26:11   lots of things have gotten worse since the beginning.

00:26:13   I mean, in the beginning, they were paying people

00:26:15   obscene salaries to be geniuses.

00:26:16   So you'd get like, you know, people who are real experts

00:26:20   in the technology field, leaving their tech jobs

00:26:23   for similar salaries to be a genius at the Genius Bar.

00:26:27   You didn't see employees who were like

00:26:28   typical retail employees like Margo said,

00:26:30   you know the high school students or college students,

00:26:31   not that there's anything wrong with those people,

00:26:32   but you saw like real experienced people

00:26:35   making good salaries doing this.

00:26:37   And over time, the Apple Store has become

00:26:39   more like a regular retail store.

00:26:41   Now that I'm saying they're paying people

00:26:42   like you get paid at Walmart or Target,

00:26:44   but it is nothing compared to the original days

00:26:46   of Apple retail where they were just paying tons of money

00:26:50   to get really senior expert people in there.

00:26:53   And this transformation has happened little by little,

00:26:57   slowly, over many, many years, during that time,

00:27:01   Apple stores have been doing great, right?

00:27:03   Because they've been selling tons and tons of stuff.

00:27:04   So it's like, well, have they been slowly kind of to see

00:27:07   how much of the rug can we pull out

00:27:09   from under this retail thing without breaking it?

00:27:11   Like, is that the goal of the retail chief?

00:27:13   Is it the goal to kinda, sorta, see how much cost

00:27:17   you can pull out of the Apple retail stores

00:27:18   without impacting the user experience?

00:27:20   And then like the Broward guy just went too far?

00:27:22   Like, I don't know what the mandate is

00:27:25   the new retail chief. It doesn't seem like the mandate is, like, spare no expense, make

00:27:31   our stores the best experience. We don't care if all of our stores lose money because the

00:27:34   whole point of our stores is to be ambassadors for our products and we'll make up the money

00:27:38   elsewhere. Like, that doesn't seem to be the mandate. I don't think that was ever the mandate,

00:27:41   even the good old days of Apple retail. And I wonder, under Tim Cook, if the mandate isn't,

00:27:46   let's see how much cost you can pull out of these stores without breaking them. Don't

00:27:49   make the employees angry, don't make the experience worse, but see what you can do about, you

00:27:53   know, pull a little cost out. And I worry about that.

00:27:56   Yeah. Now, what do you make of the thought that Xi is well positioned to get Apple well

00:28:04   positioned in China? So I ask because from what very little I've had a chance to read

00:28:09   about all this, apparently Burberry, Burberry, whatever, I don't care what it's called, that

00:28:14   thing, is doing fairly well in China and expanding pretty significantly. Do you think that this

00:28:20   is yet another play on China, like everything Apple does is in the media these days?

00:28:25   That can't hurt, right?

00:28:27   Sure.

00:28:28   I mean, it's probably – if you are in charge of any big retail, worldwide retail chain,

00:28:33   chances are good that you have more locations in China than Apple does, simply because Apple

00:28:36   doesn't have that many stores when compared to Walmart or whatever, some other big – or

00:28:41   McDonald's, you know what I mean?

00:28:43   Like how many locations does Apple have in China?

00:28:45   Half a dozen or something?

00:28:46   It's not a lot for a country that big.

00:28:48   So a lot of people put up the big map saying,

00:28:51   look at Burberry has all these locations in China.

00:28:54   It's way more than Apple.

00:28:54   That's true.

00:28:56   But a lot of places have way more locations in China.

00:28:58   But yeah, it doesn't hurt.

00:29:02   Anybody coming to work for Apple for anything

00:29:05   probably has to-- dealing with China, the potentially largest

00:29:10   market in the future for all of Apple's stuff,

00:29:15   any triangle is good.

00:29:16   But I don't think that's why they hired her.

00:29:17   I think they're trying to hire a person,

00:29:19   and I guess they think this is the right person.

00:29:21   I'm just, I'm a little, you know,

00:29:24   gun-shy about Apple's hiring,

00:29:26   because it's not been that great

00:29:29   over the past several years,

00:29:29   and not just Tim Cook, but who's the guy,

00:29:32   Papermaster, the guy that Steve Jobs wanted, right?

00:29:34   That didn't work out well either, so.

00:29:36   It's kinda, I mean, maybe that's true of all hiring,

00:29:37   like, sometimes it just doesn't work out,

00:29:39   but when it's a high-profile position,

00:29:41   we get to see all of the wreckage,

00:29:44   whereas if it's just some other person

00:29:45   no one's ever heard of, they come and go,

00:29:47   nobody knows about it.

00:29:48   You've got to figure this is also a tough job to sell to somebody. Obviously, with a

00:29:56   handful of people having had it recently, if you're some CEO of a big company or some

00:30:03   really high-ranking person at a different retailer, you're very qualified. You're

00:30:09   very expensive. You can pick what you do at that point. Maybe this just isn't that appealing

00:30:15   to be absorbed into Apple and hope you do well, but if you don't do well, it will be

00:30:24   very, very public and it will probably end your career. That's not good.

00:30:28   But these people never think they're going to fail. From Papermaster to Broude, if you

00:30:34   were to ask them, they thought, "It's just one of those successful people never

00:30:38   think they're going to fail." And so they're like, "Oh, don't worry about that. I

00:30:42   the last guy, he kicked him out, boy, he wasn't he a loser, but not me. It's not going to happen

00:30:46   to me. So no one thinks it's going to happen to them. So I don't think that examination is in

00:30:49   there. And if you're a fan of Apple, which I bet a lot of people are, just a fan of their products

00:30:54   and admire the company, that goes a long way. That and a $56 million signing bonus or whatever the

00:31:00   heck she got, that goes a long way. But the money thing always confuses me in this sort of rarified

00:31:07   air of C-level executives, because I'm assuming she already doesn't have to worry about money

00:31:14   ever. She's multimillionaire, very rich, very powerful. Money is not a big thing. And yet,

00:31:20   you still have to end up paying. It's like that's just what the market will bear. If

00:31:23   you're a business person, you just say, "Well, look, this is what I'm worth, so you need

00:31:25   to pay me what I'm worth." But something, I don't know. We'll have to try this experiment.

00:31:31   Make me that rich and see if I demand that much money for the next job that I get. It

00:31:37   It seems like it would just be like,

00:31:39   I guess you have to do it,

00:31:40   so it doesn't seem like you're not getting what you're worth

00:31:44   because this is a supply and demand situation,

00:31:45   but really, how much is that $56 million?

00:31:48   It seems like so much to us, it seems so obscene,

00:31:50   but how much is it going to change her lifestyle?

00:31:52   Probably not at all, right?

00:31:54   - I would assume not.

00:31:57   And I agree, I guess once you make some salary,

00:32:00   even if that salary is stupidly large,

00:32:02   you're not often going to want to go backwards.

00:32:07   So I don't know if she's paid 11 gajillion dollars now,

00:32:11   she's probably gonna want 12 gajillion next.

00:32:14   - Well it's also part of like career branding

00:32:16   where you don't want, like if there's any chance

00:32:19   of anybody else learning your salary,

00:32:21   which for a CEO it's usually public,

00:32:24   for a high ranking executive or director at Apple,

00:32:26   that's usually public too.

00:32:27   So since your salary is either public

00:32:31   or at least somewhat easy to find out, you don't want it to look like you're on your

00:32:37   way out career-wise. You don't want it to look like you're on your way down. That

00:32:41   just looks bad on you. So you want to keep getting those upgrades.

00:32:44   Yeah, and most of this, I'm assuming, is in stock. And that does make sense, where

00:32:50   you give compensation to top-level executives in stock because that presumably motivates

00:32:54   them to, at the very least, make the stock price go up, which hopefully is in some way

00:32:58   related to their performance and their job. And so it's not options. I think they're giving

00:33:04   RSU's which have an immediate value as opposed to a potential value in the future. But yeah,

00:33:11   that's usually the way that these people get compensated. Tons and tons of stock.

00:33:14   Bringing in someone at this point where Apple's kind of like, it's not at its stock peak,

00:33:21   but it's kind of on its way down from its peak. It's not like it was five or 10 years ago where

00:33:26   where there was a huge potential upside because Apple's already the biggest company in the

00:33:30   world or close to it. So how much bigger could they possibly get? So yeah, you get RSU's

00:33:35   and then those are worth money now, that's real money now. Don't have to worry about

00:33:39   the stock price doubling. You're already filthy rich just from what we're giving you.

00:33:44   Yeah, I definitely wouldn't enjoy being in a position where my financial well-being

00:33:50   depended on Apple stock going up dramatically. I have a real-time follow-up from my wife

00:33:54   a few minutes ago, she says that she used Googling to try to prove me wrong, and she

00:33:59   found the Louis Vuitton logo, they've been using that on their thing since the 1800s.

00:34:03   So she thinks it's not because you can copyright a logo, but not a pattern.

00:34:08   It has to line up, right? Is that that one or is that the other one? The C's.

00:34:14   I don't know. I do not know. The amount that all the—our collective knowledge of fashion

00:34:19   is close to zero.

00:34:21   But I love that we're devoting half of the show to it.

00:34:24   Well, Apple needs to start hiring people from things that we know about.

00:34:27   They just start hiring people like us to manage their fashion lines.

00:34:30   Yeah, exactly.

00:34:31   Well, that's the other thing about this.

00:34:34   So they hired the guy from the French company whose name we're not going to pronounce,

00:34:37   a fashion type thing.

00:34:38   And they're hiring this person from a clothing company.

00:34:40   It's just the smoke surrounding wearable items from Apple is just everywhere.

00:34:47   No, I don't think that's it.

00:34:49   I think it's just that Apple is trying to hire somebody to manage their very high-end

00:34:54   retail stores, and it just so happens that most other very high-end retail stores are

00:34:58   in the fashion business.

00:34:59   I don't know.

00:35:01   Where there's smoke, there's fire, Marco.

00:35:05   Something that you can wear.

00:35:06   I mean, they already have.

00:35:07   We can't even pronounce this smoke.

00:35:08   Yeah.

00:35:09   It doesn't have to be pronounceable.

00:35:11   Something that you wear.

00:35:12   I mean, they already do make things that you wear.

00:35:14   They make iPods with little clips on them.

00:35:16   You wear them, sort of.

00:35:18   It's one short step from there to something that you slap around your wrist or...

00:35:23   Like a slap bracelet?

00:35:24   Oh, God.

00:35:25   Put through your belly button piercing or whatever they're going to do.

00:35:28   Whatever the kids these days do.

00:35:30   This is going nowhere good quickly.

00:35:31   All I have to say is I'm very much looking forward to WWDC shirts this year because they're

00:35:35   clearly going to be phenomenal given all these fashion people that are being hired.

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00:38:46   Now, in the past, and forevermore.

00:38:48   There's something vaguely Catholic about that.

00:38:51   Oh my goodness.

00:38:53   So before we eliminate all of our listeners, do you want to talk about Touch ID for a minute?

00:38:58   Yeah, I actually finally used it a lot this weekend, and I turned it off as soon as I

00:39:02   got in the car to go home.

00:39:04   Man, I do not see why everyone does not like it. I really like it a lot.

00:39:11   Well, I liked it when I was using it, but if I don't have to be using it, it's not that

00:39:16   transparent that I can just use it all the time. It's very close, but it's a little bit

00:39:21   too slow, and it misses a little bit too often. Like, I had—mine would refuse my finger

00:39:27   about maybe one every 20 or 30 tries. So it happens like—

00:39:32   That's enough to get you that grumpy?

00:39:35   Well it would happen maybe twice a day or something.

00:39:38   And that's just enough that it reminds me, "Oh, this kind of sometimes sucks."

00:39:47   So it was just a little bit...

00:39:50   I don't know.

00:39:52   It's very close to being good enough for my ridiculously picky standards, but not quite.

00:39:59   it's a little bit too slow and just slightly too unreliable. Again, it's close. But I would

00:40:06   say if my false positive rate stayed the same and it just got maybe half the time, if it

00:40:13   got fast enough that it could do it in half the time, I would turn it back on all the

00:40:18   time. So maybe the iPhone 6 or whatever will be faster at it. Who knows? But for now, I

00:40:24   think I'm just going to turn it on when I know I'm going to be out in public a lot like

00:40:27   conference, but for my day-to-day use where I'm around nobody except my family and my

00:40:32   dog, I don't think I'll leave it on.

00:40:36   That's the letter you should have read that guy scolding you about keeping your phone

00:40:38   unlocked because someone's going to steal it from you and get access to all your information.

00:40:43   I did read that.

00:40:44   First of all, he was under the impression that I live in New York City, which I don't.

00:40:49   So basically—I don't want to pull it up now—but the gist of his response, which

00:40:56   which was on point for the most part, I think,

00:40:58   and most of it I agree with.

00:40:59   The gist of it is that it's kind of like your ethical duty

00:41:04   as a responsible technology owner to lock your phone

00:41:07   because not only do you have your own data to protect,

00:41:11   but you also have everyone in your address book,

00:41:14   you have their data to protect as well.

00:41:16   And if somebody has possession of your phone,

00:41:19   they can do quite a lot.

00:41:20   If they can open up your email, if they can receive email,

00:41:23   then they can do things like receive password resets

00:41:26   pretty much any service. And then, you know, log in as you and other services. They can

00:41:31   take your whole address book. They can take everyone's names and phone numbers. Even,

00:41:34   like, you know, if you're friends with, like, any celebrities or internet celebrities, then,

00:41:38   you know, then their public information or their private information could be taken to,

00:41:42   and that could be inconvenient, at least for them. So...

00:41:44   Right. Even MC Hammer.

00:41:46   Exactly. Even MC Hammer. I don't even know if he still uses that phone number. But, anyway,

00:41:52   So I agree with him that that is a risk. However, I think most people probably

00:41:58   grossly overestimate how much I go in public and how many people are

00:42:06   there when I get there. I really pretty much stay in my small town and the

00:42:11   town next to us most of the time, and there's rarely any people around. I

00:42:15   rarely even have my phone out of my pocket, and it's not even a dense enough

00:42:19   area that would be pickpocketed. It could happen. I'm not saying it can't happen,

00:42:24   but I think the chances of it happening are so astronomically low that it's just not

00:42:29   worth it for me.

00:42:31   Yeah, that's always what I thought when I saw people use their iPhones with even just

00:42:36   the four-digit code. Because you know how often people check their phones. People are

00:42:40   just obsessive about it. They're constantly looking at their phones, and you'd see them

00:42:43   doing it, and you'd also see them entering their little number over and over and over

00:42:47   again, which seems so annoying to me. And not only so annoying, but like, if you wanted

00:42:52   to steal that person's phone, spend five minutes next to them, wait for them to check their

00:42:56   phone 900 times, watch them type in that same four digit code over and over and over and

00:43:00   over again and see where their fingers are. Like this is not rocket science. And then

00:43:04   take their phone. It's like an extra five minute investment, at least with touch ID,

00:43:08   you have to make more of an effort to fake it out.

00:43:13   My wife got her phone and I played with the touch ID.

00:43:17   I think I would probably enable it because I couldn't bring myself to do the four-digit

00:43:21   code thing because that was just too much of a burden.

00:43:26   Even when I'm out of the house, not that I have an iPhone, so it's not an issue, but

00:43:29   if I did have an iPhone, I don't think I would enable the four-digit one unless I was going

00:43:34   into an area where suddenly my risk of losing my phone was getting much higher.

00:43:37   But I think I would enable the fingerprint thing every time I went outside, although

00:43:42   That's not in control center, right?

00:43:43   I'd have to actually go into settings

00:43:44   and turn on the fingerprint thing.

00:43:46   So that might be a little bit of a hassle.

00:43:47   But I think I would give it more of a go

00:43:49   just because it passes my threshold

00:43:52   for like I'm going to endure this annoyance

00:43:55   for the slight added safety.

00:43:58   Because for some reason, I mean,

00:44:00   once you accept that there is this step in the process

00:44:02   of taking out your phone that is unlocking it,

00:44:05   if you can make that step pretty easy,

00:44:06   I'm willing to accept that as a step in the process.

00:44:09   If you're not willing to accept that

00:44:10   as a step in the process,

00:44:11   then it's just like, it better be zero time

00:44:14   or it's constantly annoying me.

00:44:16   And I think I could get with the program with Touch ID,

00:44:18   but I enabled it on my wife's phone.

00:44:20   I don't know if she's already enabled it,

00:44:22   disabled it, we'll see.

00:44:24   I'll see how long she lasts for.

00:44:25   She never used a lock on her previous phone.

00:44:27   She always had it completely unlocked.

00:44:29   - Now, to be clear, you have to use a passcode

00:44:31   of some variety when Touch ID is on,

00:44:33   because if you reboot, for example,

00:44:35   it won't let you do Touch ID to unlock.

00:44:37   You have to use the passcode.

00:44:39   And there were some other circumstances

00:44:40   I don't recall. Well, if you can't get in via Touch ID, you have to fall back on a passcode.

00:44:45   I don't think it has to be four digit. I think you can use a crazy alphanumeric one.

00:44:49   Right. I just had a password. You can either do the simple passcode, which is four digits,

00:44:53   or you can just have it put up a text box and enter whatever you want with the regular

00:44:56   keyboard.

00:44:57   Yeah. The regular keyboard is at least slightly more difficult to shoulder surf from somebody.

00:45:02   All right. Actually, I should point out, I have not tried this, but earlier on, Double

00:45:07   in the chat said, "Hey, the way I fixed all the issues with not registering my finger

00:45:14   is to have the same finger as two entries in the Touch ID registration."

00:45:21   You know what I mean?

00:45:22   So, say take your right thumb, you register your right thumb as two independent fingers

00:45:28   and that makes it a lot better and a lot less likely to mess it up, which I have not tried,

00:45:34   but it sounds reasonable to me.

00:45:36   That's interesting.

00:45:37   Yeah, I thought that was interesting.

00:45:38   I'm surprised it would even accept it.

00:45:40   Yeah, I don't know.

00:45:42   Sure, it'll accept it.

00:45:44   It's just a question of when they tell you to put your thumb on it in all sorts of different

00:45:47   positions.

00:45:48   You just do a different set of positions the second time, and then you have just more data.

00:45:52   Yeah, my experience with it has been great.

00:45:55   Certainly it fails sometimes, but I guess the difference is I look at it the same way

00:45:59   John does, which is, you know what, there is another step in this process that at least

00:46:04   80% of the time for me, I don't even notice it.

00:46:08   I don't even think about it.

00:46:09   And then the other small portion of the time, 20% of the time I do notice it, you know,

00:46:13   maybe I have to try again, but my data in principle is that much more secure and that's

00:46:17   a price I'm willing to pay.

00:46:19   Much more so than the price of having even a four digit simple lock code, which I never

00:46:25   liked.

00:46:26   And it frustrated me every time I turned it on, which was basically only when I was at

00:46:29   conferences.

00:46:30   I give two thumbs up, as terrible as that pun ends up being, I give two thumbs up to

00:46:35   Touch ID.

00:46:36   I think it's been really good.

00:46:37   One thing I wanted to ask you guys about though is do you think this is coming to both MacBook

00:46:43   Pros and the desktop Macs, I guess specifically perhaps the iMac, and I assume we all agree

00:46:51   that it's going to be on iPads as soon as possible.

00:46:55   I'm going to say no on the Macs because...

00:46:57   Even the portables?

00:46:59   - Yeah, because right now, I mean, first of all,

00:47:04   they sell so many fewer Macs, the motivation

00:47:07   to bring cutting-edge features to them is way lower.

00:47:08   I mean, look, we still don't even have

00:47:11   built-in cellular modems on the Macs.

00:47:13   And that's, like, even when they launched one

00:47:15   called the MacBook Air and they didn't build in an AirCard,

00:47:18   I mean, that's crazy.

00:47:19   (laughing)

00:47:20   You know, so we, like, obviously the Mac,

00:47:22   like, putting new hardware features on the Mac

00:47:24   is obviously a lower priority.

00:47:26   But also, I think it's just because the design of it

00:47:29   requires that secure enclave thing, and if you look at what this is, if you look at the

00:47:34   NN Tech article on the A7, you can kind of see what that means. And it's this pretty

00:47:40   deeply integrated architecture as part of the new ARM architecture, whatever it is.

00:47:47   And so I don't think they would do it in a way that wasn't just as secure as the phone,

00:47:53   and in regards to, not only just recognizing your fingerprint, but in regards to not letting

00:47:58   getting anything else, access fingerprint data.

00:48:03   No other software on the computer, not even the CPU,

00:48:05   stuff like that, doing the hashing and then even

00:48:09   locking the hashes down super tightly in this secure area.

00:48:11   So this is all enabled by special hardware features

00:48:15   of the new ARM architecture.

00:48:19   And as far as I know, I don't think there's anything

00:48:21   like that on Intel, but who knows?

00:48:24   Intel's always worked in little features like this

00:48:23   in their specs and that nobody ever uses them.

00:48:25   They might have them, but I don't think they do right now.

00:48:27   And so I don't think

00:48:29   I don't think it's going to come to the

00:48:31   portables anytime soon.

00:48:33   Even coming to the iPads,

00:48:35   obviously I think it's only going to come

00:48:37   to iOS devices that have

00:48:39   the A7 or better.

00:48:41   And right now, the

00:48:43   iPad Mini is on the A5.

00:48:45   So the question is, if they're

00:48:47   about to do a retina iPad Mini,

00:48:49   which I think is pretty

00:48:51   pretty likely so it's certainly possible but i think it's pretty pretty likely

00:48:54   this point

00:48:55   uh... if they're actually is that

00:48:57   you have to ask you what's the price point i think it'd be in cannot even

00:49:00   support you know

00:49:01   there but the the means already

00:49:04   so can that support

00:49:05   an a seven and a redness green in one year i'm guessing probably not

00:49:10   i'm guessing the retina

00:49:12   i've had many is probably gonna have

00:49:14   an a six x chip and not the a seven x

00:49:17   which is just yet but the program called that

00:49:19   and then I'm guessing the full-size iPad will have

00:49:22   A7X and Tuxedo because, first of all, also,

00:49:25   Apple needs some segmentation here.

00:49:27   Apple needs some reasons for people to buy the big one.

00:49:32   Because the big one, they make way more money on it,

00:49:34   and there's a lot more room there for upsells as well.

00:49:38   So I think we're gonna see that come to the iPad this fall

00:49:42   as big iPad only, and the mini won't have it this year.

00:49:47   That's just my guess.

00:49:48   - Well, yeah, I kind of agree that it's not likely

00:49:51   that we're gonna see this in Macs anytime soon.

00:49:54   But for the Secure Enclave stuff,

00:49:56   if Intel doesn't already have something like that,

00:49:59   they will soon, because Intel wants into

00:50:01   all the businesses that ARM is into.

00:50:03   And this is even ignoring the possibility of

00:50:06   a Mac based on an ARM system on a chip.

00:50:08   Like, these type of features,

00:50:10   not only can Apple get it if they want it

00:50:14   a couple years down the line,

00:50:15   but Intel is going to want to offer it,

00:50:17   because they're gonna want to offer

00:50:18   chips to people who do things like this. And because Apple has some fingerprint thing in

00:50:22   their thing, that seems to be reasonably successful. We haven't heard all crazy backlash or no late

00:50:27   night jokes about how fingerprints don't work. It's more or less how to launch the best that you

00:50:32   could have hoped for. And again, this is a forward looking technology and blah, blah, blah. This is

00:50:36   the cutting edge. But a couple of years down the line, when it's less cutting edge, if it turns out

00:50:41   to be something that people like, laptops have the same exact problem in that you should use a screen

00:50:46   lock whenever you're away from your laptop and stuff like that, but a lot of people don't

00:50:51   because it's annoying to keep typing in your password over and over and over again, even

00:50:54   though you have a real keyboard in front of you.

00:50:56   I do it at work.

00:50:57   My screen has a password lock on it and I'm sick of typing it all day every time I get

00:51:00   up and leave my computer and come back down to it.

00:51:03   If I could put my finger on some little spot, that's faster than typing in front of my password

00:51:07   and I would do it.

00:51:08   So if this convenience becomes addictive to customers, it's only a matter of time before

00:51:15   it shows up everywhere because there are so many instances where you have to enter credentials

00:51:19   on the Mac, purchasing stuff, authorizing event access if you're a nerd user or whatever. Hell,

00:51:28   I would use it for my SSH key passcode stuff if I could. The opportunities for integration

00:51:35   seem great. Now, the point about the 3G is a good one. That seems like a no-brainer. Everyone has

00:51:40   to come up with all sorts of crazy theories about why isn't Apple putting 3G in any of its Mac

00:51:45   products? Is it some sort of thing with the carriers or they don't want like I

00:51:48   don't understand why either but the simplest explanation is the most

00:51:51   compelling like Marco said it's just yeah they don't care that much you know

00:51:55   maybe they'll do it someday maybe they won't but that's another feature that

00:51:59   can you think of anybody who buys the MacBook Air and travels a lot who would

00:52:04   not opt for the 3G option or 4G option if it was like it is on the iPad where

00:52:08   you pay per month and the extra hardware is you know 100 extra bucks or whatever

00:52:14   People will buy that in a second.

00:52:15   That would be an amazing seller.

00:52:17   And it would make the machine more useful.

00:52:19   So that argument is against Touch ID,

00:52:21   because it's a feature-- no matter how convenient it is

00:52:24   and how much people want it, if Apple can't be bothered

00:52:26   because the volumes are too low or it doesn't seem that

00:52:28   important, who knows?

00:52:29   But if Touch ID continues to be even middle of the road

00:52:35   successful-- people don't love it,

00:52:37   but it's still more convenient than typing in something--

00:52:39   it's got to spread.

00:52:40   Because the technology required to do that

00:52:43   will become cheaper, will spread to more different vendors, will just be everywhere.

00:52:48   So we'll report back in five years and we'll see if Touch ID has spread outside the iOS

00:52:52   realm, but I would not be surprised.

00:52:54   I would say also the demand for, or rather the need for Touch ID on laptops is lower.

00:53:03   And they discussed this in the keynote when they unveiled it for the iPhone, that nobody

00:53:07   locks their phone because it's hard.

00:53:09   It has inconvenience, frequent inconvenience.

00:53:12   So nobody does it.

00:53:14   So on the laptop, even though I'm all picky

00:53:17   about making a convenient phone,

00:53:19   on my laptop I've always used full disk encryption,

00:53:23   using FileVault, I use full disk encryption,

00:53:25   and I have the passcode required on every wake up

00:53:28   and a pretty aggressive sleep timeout.

00:53:31   And the reason why is because I don't sleep

00:53:32   and wake my laptop that much.

00:53:34   Like it's not like a phone where you might sleep

00:53:36   and wake it 30 to 50 times in a day, at least.

00:53:39   I don't even, probably more than that.

00:53:40   That's because you don't work in a public office.

00:53:42   Like every time anyone walks away from their desk at work,

00:53:45   you lock your screen.

00:53:46   Not just because it's work policy,

00:53:47   but because if you don't, your coworkers will send emails

00:53:50   that say you forgot to lock your computer

00:53:51   and do other terrible things to your computer.

00:53:52   - Right, they'll go to your wallpaper.

00:53:54   But still, I mean, how often do you get up

00:53:56   from your desk at work?

00:53:57   Like how many times per day,

00:53:59   compared to how often you unlock a phone?

00:54:01   - I'm thinking about all the other things too.

00:54:02   Like how many times do we go to a web forum

00:54:04   when we want it to autofill?

00:54:05   I mean, I guess they kind of autofill automatically,

00:54:07   the extra bit of security of having a fingerprint thing to autofill stuff versus like, "Oh

00:54:12   God, if someone gets to my unlocked computer, they can log in as me at Gmail because I don't

00:54:17   use two-factor auth or something because my browser will just autofill it."

00:54:23   This is, again, a case where you're adding security where none existed before because

00:54:27   now if you get to someone's unlocked Mac and they save their passwords, you can just go

00:54:31   to the webpage, it will autofill, and you will just log right in as them and have access

00:54:35   to all their stuff.

00:54:36   So we all love Keychain and we love the convenience of like one password or whatever, remembering

00:54:40   our passwords, but having it be so easy for someone to get access to all your passwords

00:54:45   just because they have access to your unlocked Mac is not good for any kind of security sensitive

00:54:50   situation.

00:54:51   If it could be as simple as putting your fingers on something and hey, when you're using a

00:54:54   Mac, your fingers are already on the keyboard and there's lots of keys there, like it seems

00:54:58   like a natural fit.

00:54:59   But eventually, I mean, it's like 3G.

00:55:01   Like it's got to happen eventually.

00:55:04   "Some Mac laptop has to have cellular wireless in it."

00:55:08   Right?

00:55:09   Maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but eventually it has to.

00:55:12   Soon it becomes so cheap that kids toys have it in them.

00:55:16   It just has to happen.

00:55:17   So if this fingerprint stuff continues to be useful and nothing better replaces it,

00:55:24   it'll be in Macs eventually and we'll use it for all the things that we currently use

00:55:27   passwords for.

00:55:28   And we'll like it.

00:55:31   Somebody actually pointed out to me on Twitter a while back that perhaps if there is a touch

00:55:35   ID in the portables, perhaps it would be under the touchpad.

00:55:41   So the whole touchpad would be one big sensor, which I thought was interesting.

00:55:45   That sounds like, it sounds unrealistic though because the sensor in the phone is super high

00:55:50   resolution and to make one that large at the size of these giant touchpads that are on

00:55:56   the modern Mac laptops, that's probably cost prohibitive.

00:56:00   Putting it in a key cap is certainly the easier one with current tech, but it depends on how

00:56:04   many years out in the future you go, because things just get cheaper, cheaper and cheaper,

00:56:07   and eventually maybe putting it in the whole trackpad isn't as crazy as it is today, you

00:56:11   know?

00:56:12   Right.

00:56:13   Now, it occurred to me just a moment ago that this is our last show before the October 22nd

00:56:19   event, so I feel like it would be remiss of me not to ask you to any other thoughts on

00:56:24   what will be announced.

00:56:25   I'll start with myself.

00:56:27   I didn't think that there would be a Retina iPad Mini until the last week or so.

00:56:32   I'm starting to lean toward there being one.

00:56:35   And so I'll go on record and saying I think that there will be a Retina iPad Mini.

00:56:40   And I also was just thinking to myself, if there isn't a Retina iPad Mini, I kind of

00:56:45   wonder if we'll get iPad Mini in colors a la the iPhone 5C.

00:56:53   So you know, "Hey, we didn't give you the Retina you always wanted, but we've got

00:56:57   these sweet colors and so that would be kind of your the second the next best thing.

00:57:04   But in terms of everything else I mean I suspect and hope I really hope we see updates to the

00:57:10   laptops.

00:57:11   What is it Haswell that we're waiting on is that right?

00:57:15   I would hope that we'll see that I think we'll get in for more information about the Mac Pro

00:57:18   I obviously will get more information about Mavericks but I'm going for yes on the Retina

00:57:23   iPad mini.

00:57:24   Marco how about you?

00:57:26   I'm going to modify your prediction of the iPad mini slightly. First of all, I think

00:57:34   it's pretty clear that we've seen parts leaks, not to the level that we see before a phone

00:57:38   launch, but I think we've seen enough parts leaks that it looks pretty clear that they're

00:57:43   not doing plastic, that the case for the mini looks pretty much the same as the old one

00:57:48   but a little bit thicker, which pretty much suggests retina.

00:57:51   My guess is we see a retina mini, but they keep the old one around at a cheaper price,

00:57:56   and the retina price goes up because right now they have the iPad Mini at $329.

00:58:02   And right now that's the current price?

00:58:04   I believe that's right.

00:58:05   So that is cheap enough that they sold a butt ton of them this year, but everyone's still

00:58:12   undercutting the crap out of them.

00:58:14   And Apple's not going to try to match the Kindle Fire crap box price, but they can at

00:58:20   least try to reduce the gap, just like they did by releasing the Mini in the first place.

00:58:25   So I'm guessing the old Mini sticks around for another year,

00:58:29   the same way they used to do with phones,

00:58:31   and still kind of do.

00:58:32   So I'm guessing the old Mini sticks around

00:58:34   at a little bit less.

00:58:36   Maybe it becomes $300 instead of $330, you know?

00:58:40   Or maybe even like $279, something like that.

00:58:43   But not like a massive jump, not $200 bucks, but less.

00:58:48   And then the Retina comes in at a higher price.

00:58:52   Basically I'm agreeing with R. Jonesy in the chatroom.

00:58:55   I'm saying non-retina goes down to 300-ish, retina goes up to about 400-ish, because I

00:59:03   think they're going to need a little bit more margin to pull that off well.

00:59:06   Obviously you can look and you can see the newest big Kindle Fires and the newer Nexus

00:59:12   7, is it?

00:59:13   Yeah, the Nexus 7.

00:59:14   You can look at some of these other cheap tablets that have very high res screens.

00:59:21   very high-risk screens, rather.

00:59:22   You can look at those, and they're able to cram in

00:59:26   those high-density screens into these cheap price points.

00:59:28   So obviously, it's possible to do that,

00:59:32   but Apple tends to build in better cases,

00:59:34   better screen types, better angles and color

00:59:37   and stuff like that, and then they usually have

00:59:39   a more powerful GPU, and so there's all these things.

00:59:43   So I'm guessing Apple can't comfortably do

00:59:48   good Retina Mini at $329 this year.

00:59:52   So they're instead going to split it and go lower for the non-Retina and higher for

00:59:56   the Retina.

00:59:57   I'm guessing the Retina will also have the A6X, as I said a few minutes ago, and not

01:00:01   the A7, primarily for cost concerns.

01:00:05   And then the iPad 5 is going to be a little bit smaller and really fast and probably have

01:00:09   the A7X, but who cares because it's too big.

01:00:12   All right, John?

01:00:14   Yeah, I'm kind of upset about the smaller frame around the iPad, whatever number it's

01:00:20   up to now, the big one.

01:00:21   Because I like the big one, I like the bigger screen, I don't like the mini.

01:00:24   And one of the things I don't like about the mini is the edges are so small, like they

01:00:27   want you to hold it not by the frame, but rather like around the back of it.

01:00:32   And so the shrinking, you know, if all the parts leaks are to be believed in, I do believe

01:00:35   them, they're shrinking the frame around the iPad 5.

01:00:39   Which is kind of a shame.

01:00:40   It's still big, I guess I'll have to try it out, but anyway, that's the iPad that I'll

01:00:43   want someday or something like that to replace my iPad 3. Although my iPad 3 does feel like

01:00:48   it weighs a ton, but it's still pretty solid for me. It stutters a little on iOS 7, I finally

01:00:53   did upgrade it. But yeah, I'm looking forward to the big iPad. The Mini has to be Retina

01:01:00   this year, it just has to be. And if it's not, they will get slammed in the press and

01:01:03   they will deserve it. Because fine, you've launched on Retina, you gotta do what you

01:01:07   gotta do, you gotta protect your margins, it wasn't that big a deal. Now everybody has

01:01:11   has a retina little tablet.

01:01:12   And like what Marco said is true,

01:01:13   maybe they're using cheaper displays or whatever,

01:01:15   but some of them are not that bad.

01:01:17   I've seen a lot of these 7-inch tablets.

01:01:19   They do not look like crap displays.

01:01:20   It's not like they're shipping with those crazy pen tile

01:01:22   things that don't even have real RGB pixels.

01:01:24   Some of these screens--

01:01:25   I think some of them are.

01:01:27   Some of them are, but the name brand good 7-inch Android

01:01:32   or Kindle tablets, they're like $200 bucks and they're retina.

01:01:36   And they're not bad products.

01:01:37   Yes, they have wimpier GPUs and maybe slower CPUs,

01:01:40   and they don't use the app, but absolutely positively,

01:01:43   Apple must ship a Retina Mini.

01:01:46   Whether they keep around the old one--

01:01:48   Apple is running this experiment with the iPad 2,

01:01:50   where they wanted to figure out, do people

01:01:54   keep buying the iPad 2 because it's cheap

01:01:56   or because it's big?

01:01:56   And so then they made a small one that was also cheap.

01:01:59   And so it's like, OK, now you have the choice.

01:02:01   You have the cheap big one and the cheap small one.

01:02:03   Now, presumably, Apple has enough data to know whether

01:02:07   or not they should include the, you know, keep around the non-retina mini. I just don't

01:02:13   know what the answer to that question is. They know because they can look at their sales

01:02:15   figures because now they've run the experiment, they're sort of controlling for the variables.

01:02:19   They have, you know, two non-retina devices, one big one small, both cheaper than everything

01:02:23   else, which one is selling more, what do people say about why they buy it or whatever. So

01:02:30   I would not be surprised if they didn't keep around the old one because I think the result

01:02:33   the experiment. My guess is that people want it at a cheaper price, not so much the bigger size,

01:02:38   but only Apple knows for sure, so we'll see. For the MacBook Pros,

01:02:42   I'm assuming they're going to be announced. I haven't paid enough attention to Intel's timelines.

01:02:48   Again, we talked about it in previous shows. The thing I'm really looking for is,

01:02:52   we're talking about the retina MacBook Pros, because obviously the other line has already

01:02:58   already been updated this year. Will it have a discrete GPU at all in any of the model

01:03:03   choices or will it be the Irish Pro graphics up and down the line? Because as we said before,

01:03:09   Apple could say no discrete GPU in any of the MacBook Pros and spin it with some marketing

01:03:15   mumbo jumbo and some graphs that show, "See, it's not really that bad. It's about the same

01:03:19   as it was before and look at this extra battery life you get," or whatever. Or will there

01:03:23   be a last gasp of the discrete GPU and on either some or all the models, it will still

01:03:27   have a screen GPU but you'll use it less and less except for maybe when you're

01:03:31   gaming because iris pro is just that good so that's what I'd be looking for

01:03:34   there the Mac Pro I would like a price on that but I'm not holding my breath I

01:03:39   have no idea what the time it looks like for the Mac Pro again I don't quite

01:03:43   understand at this point why they wouldn't announce pricing they have

01:03:47   been they've pre announced the product so far in advance anyway why not just

01:03:50   tell us how much it's gonna cost surely you know by now there's no part of it

01:03:53   that you're waiting for pricing on you have pricing for CPUs from Intel you

01:03:56   have all the other parts, all that good stuff.

01:03:59   Well, wait a minute.

01:04:00   Is Intel's CPU pricing public?

01:04:01   Well, I mean, the deals have to be signed by now.

01:04:04   Like, barring any unforeseen fabbing difficulties, Apple has to know what their supply costs

01:04:09   are for this machine and, you know, pick a price.

01:04:11   Well, yeah, but maybe they aren't allowed to reveal the pricing of a thing using this

01:04:16   new still kind of unreleased Intel chip yet.

01:04:18   Intel doesn't stop Apple from announcing prices of its products.

01:04:21   Apple does what it wants.

01:04:23   We also haven't seen, as far as I know, the CPUs used in the new Mac Pro, the Xeon

01:04:30   E5 V2, I don't think we've seen any of them in the wild anywhere else yet.

01:04:35   No one else is selling those CPUs yet.

01:04:37   So it's possible Apple's just waiting on Intel to deliver enough of them.

01:04:41   Yeah, I'm not talking about shipping.

01:04:43   I'm just saying, to have us a price and we'll be on sale later this year or whatever.

01:04:50   - And then the displays are linked with the Mac Pro.

01:04:54   - Please, please, please.

01:04:55   - Yeah, we all want them, but I get a feeling

01:04:58   that maybe not this year.

01:04:59   - Yeah, I'd give that maybe a 50% chance

01:05:03   of being this year.

01:05:04   - No matter how much we want,

01:05:05   that watching them doesn't make it so,

01:05:06   so that's a shame there.

01:05:07   Mavericks, I have, I mean, we all know

01:05:10   that Apple shipped out the GM.

01:05:11   They like to give developers some time

01:05:16   to get their applications ready for Mavericks

01:05:18   and put them up into the store and stuff like that.

01:05:20   How much time?

01:05:21   Not that much.

01:05:23   I mean, how long do they usually give developers?

01:05:25   What, iOS 7 went GM in like two weeks before?

01:05:28   Usually you have one week on iOS.

01:05:31   Yeah, so it's not outside the realm of possibility

01:05:33   that Mavericks, the price is announced, and they say, hey,

01:05:37   go to the store after we get off the stage,

01:05:39   and you can get it today.

01:05:41   I tend to think you're right about that.

01:05:43   Something that just occurred to me,

01:05:44   I don't think this is going to happen,

01:05:47   But is Apple currently selling any iPhone with the dock connector anymore?

01:05:53   Yes, the 4S is still for sale.

01:05:55   Ah, bummer.

01:05:56   All right.

01:05:57   Well, what I was going to say is what if they said, "You know what?

01:06:01   The only iPads we're selling are the current gen mini, the next gen mini, the one that's

01:06:08   going to be new in a week or less than a week.

01:06:11   The iPad 4 is now the cheap big iPad, the iPad 5 obviously is the new big iPad.

01:06:21   So if it wasn't for the 4S, which already ruins my argument, I was going to say, "Hey,

01:06:25   look, we're all off the dock connector.

01:06:27   The dock connector is gone."

01:06:28   And then what if they did the same thing with, "Hey, we're doing a new iMac with the either

01:06:32   4K or Retina display."

01:06:34   Obviously with that comes the Thunderbolt display upgrade, which is now Retina.

01:06:38   "Oh, and by the way, there's a Retina MacBook Air, and we've already got Retina MacBook Pros."

01:06:42   Look, everything is Retina, and everything is on the Lightning connector, and everyone is happy.

01:06:45   I don't think that'll happen, but it would be a neat storyline for the event.

01:06:50   That's next year. By the end of next year is your only chance of getting...

01:06:54   Because getting a Retina into the Air is difficult from a battery perspective,

01:06:57   and the iMac is difficult from a cost perspective. Marco and I just want it for the Pro,

01:07:02   I mean, crying out loud, for the bazillion dollar top-end device, can you get a Retina?

01:07:06   because it can drive them. Apple said it can drive the displays. And if Apple doesn't offer

01:07:12   the displays, what are we going to do? Buy a retina display elsewhere?

01:07:15   What do you think of that rumor? Do you see that rumor about the

01:07:18   potential 12-inch retina MacBook Air? You see that came out?

01:07:23   I did not see that rumor. I did. I don't understand why that would be useful.

01:07:27   Well, I think it's interesting. So, John, basically, we'll have to find a link to it.

01:07:32   The rumor is that--it came out this week--the rumor is that they're working on a 12-inch

01:07:37   Retina Air that would potentially replace the existing Air lineup with just the one

01:07:43   model of the 12-inch.

01:07:44   And it would be substantially smaller and thinner than the current Retina lineup, which

01:07:50   is pretty impressive.

01:07:52   And apparently it's like even redefining portability even further than the original Air did.

01:07:59   Something like that.

01:08:00   So here's the link in the chat.

01:08:01   you to Dejonator.

01:08:06   It says mid-2014.

01:08:07   Oh yeah, I'm not saying right now, I'm just talking in general that this rumor exists.

01:08:12   I think, first of all, this is just an analyst predicting this.

01:08:16   Oh, did I tell you I'm an analyst now?

01:08:18   I changed myself on Twitter.

01:08:20   So obviously this is really more of speculation in all likelihood than an actual tip, and

01:08:30   And certainly it's pretty far from credible or likely,

01:08:33   given the sourcing.

01:08:34   But I think it's an interesting thing to consider.

01:08:39   And if they did it, I think it would be really cool.

01:08:42   - It makes sense from a segmentation perspective,

01:08:44   and I see this at work as people are getting newer laptops.

01:08:47   When I see someone with like a 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro,

01:08:50   that, if you had showed me that before the Air existed,

01:08:53   I would be like, oh, that must be the new MacBook Air.

01:08:55   Because like the Pros, now that the opticals are gone

01:08:58   and the spinning discs are gone,

01:08:59   Like they're getting thinner and smaller.

01:09:00   So you need some way to further differentiate the Air

01:09:04   because the 13-inch Pro is like creeping up

01:09:07   on Air territory.

01:09:08   Like if you had an original MacBook Air

01:09:11   and the current Retina 13-inch Pro,

01:09:13   13-inch Pro is bigger, it's thicker,

01:09:15   but not that much bigger and not that much thicker.

01:09:17   Like yeah, it doesn't taper or anything,

01:09:19   but they're both pretty darn portable.

01:09:20   So if you want the Air to continue to have the reputation

01:09:23   of the super light thing, it makes perfect sense to say,

01:09:26   okay, we're seeding the 13-inch realm to the MacBook Pro

01:09:28   because it's not as thin as a 13-inch air would be,

01:09:32   but it's thin.

01:09:33   We really want to emphasize super-duper portability.

01:09:35   11 inches is a little bit squinty,

01:09:37   so maybe 12.5 or something.

01:09:39   I don't want to give any credence to these remets either,

01:09:40   but consolidating the air line downrange

01:09:44   to further emphasize its super-duper portability

01:09:47   is a good idea if you continue to have the 13-inch retina,

01:09:50   because the 13-inch retina is getting thinner every year.

01:09:53   It's a pretty nice machine.

01:09:56   And also, this rumor, if it's completely true, which as I said is very unlikely, but if it's

01:10:01   completely true, that they would actually replace both 11 and 13 with this one super

01:10:08   slim 12.

01:10:09   That could be interesting, because right now, the 11 and 13 are very different sizes.

01:10:14   You wouldn't think so if you just look at a picture head on, but in practice, there's

01:10:19   a substantial gap between them.

01:10:22   And the 13 is very thin, but not that small.

01:10:27   And the 11 is really small, but you can't fit anything

01:10:30   on that screen.

01:10:32   It is impossible to fit or see anything on that screen.

01:10:35   And so to have something that's a little bit bigger

01:10:38   than the 11, but not as big as 13,

01:10:40   I think really could be better than both of them.

01:10:43   The other thing you can do is the traditional thing

01:10:45   of reducing the spacing around the elements.

01:10:48   There's a crash protection issue there as well,

01:10:50   But that's the easy way to shrink the 13 without actually shrinking the screen size.

01:10:56   They have a lot of options with the Airs, but in terms of retina, it's always been

01:10:59   badder.

01:11:00   The thicker case on the Mini rumors, the same thing happened with the iPad, the iPad 3 got

01:11:05   thicker too.

01:11:06   You just need more battery for that retina display.

01:11:08   And that's why they'd have to do this new design.

01:11:11   I think it says in here that it's shaped more like the Retinome Epic Pro where it's

01:11:16   not wedge-shaped anymore.

01:11:18   It's square, it's flat.

01:11:20   The problem with the 11-inch Air,

01:11:24   until the most recent ones with Haswell,

01:11:25   I think it's improved substantially,

01:11:27   but the 11-inch Air, in addition to having

01:11:29   a really tiny screen, also just has

01:11:31   a substantially smaller battery than the 13,

01:11:34   just because there's no room to put one.

01:11:36   - Yeah, it's crappy battery life, too.

01:11:38   - Exactly, and so if they made it not tapered,

01:11:42   if they just made the whole thing a uniform thickness,

01:11:44   that would give tons more space up front

01:11:47   the under the wrist rest to put a nice big thick battery pack.

01:11:50   Yeah, the taper is a conceit that you can afford maybe when you're making a design statement,

01:11:56   but as the years pass it's like, remind me again why it gets thinner on one end,

01:11:59   because it's not actually all that thick at the other end either, and we're sacrificing

01:12:04   a whole big wedge of lithium-ion battery space that we could have,

01:12:07   especially when it's sitting there on a desk in front of you, you don't really care that it's

01:12:12   thinner on the front than it is at the back. It looks cool when it's closed, but when you're

01:12:15   carrying it.

01:12:16   Like, yeah, it's a difficult tradeoff, especially with the 11-inch, which just feels like you

01:12:21   would think the 11-inch is going to have, "Whoa, this is such amazing battery life because

01:12:24   it's so small and light."

01:12:25   But no, it's got the same class of CPU as in the 13, and it eats up just as much battery.

01:12:31   I mean, smaller screen, but, you know.

01:12:34   Like a layperson might think that the 11-inch would have better battery life than the 13,

01:12:38   but it does not.

01:12:39   And it can't with the current technology they have in there.

01:12:41   So need more battery.

01:12:43   Send battery.

01:12:44   While we're on the subject, we never got a chance to talk about the rumors about the

01:12:49   A7 potentially being brought to the Mac. That's why it's going 64-bit and the potential for

01:12:56   ARM-based Mac laptops in the future. One of the reasons why I didn't think that really

01:13:03   held a lot of water is because the CPU design doesn't actually have that massive of an impact

01:13:11   on the overall battery life, that that would really,

01:13:14   you know, you're not gonna have like,

01:13:15   you're not gonna go to an ARM CPU

01:13:17   and have the laptop last a month.

01:13:19   Like it's not that, like you still have the screen,

01:13:22   the RAM, the disks, like everything else

01:13:24   that you have to power,

01:13:25   and the screen being a pretty big one.

01:13:27   And so, I don't, you know, now that we see

01:13:31   as Intel's upping their game, and you know,

01:13:33   with Haswell doing not only a big CPU power reduction,

01:13:37   but also like a lot of other components on the motherboard

01:13:40   being more smart about their power usage. I don't really think there's that much

01:13:44   of a need to make the CPU dramatically lower powered in a laptop to the point where it

01:13:50   would be worth an architecture switch that would be disruptive. And by the way, a switch

01:13:54   to a slower architecture, which would make emulation difficult to do well, unlike every

01:14:00   other architecture switch they've done. So I don't really see it happening, and

01:14:05   I don't really see what it would gain that would be totally worth it. I mean, if you

01:14:09   already have eight or 12 hours of battery life on a laptop using a fast CPU, how much

01:14:18   demand really would there be for that? Well, we did talk about this before, right,

01:14:22   Casey? I'm not crazy for misremembering this. I thought we did as well.

01:14:26   I talked about Bay Trail and how Intel is getting in on ARM's area of super low power CPUs and how

01:14:34   they're kind of meeting in the middle. It's just a question of, as they meet in the middle,

01:14:37   who ends up coming out the victor.

01:14:39   Two things on that.

01:14:41   First, the CPU isn't always using the most power in the system,

01:14:46   but it has the highest dynamic range of any component in the system,

01:14:49   because when you really burn, especially with big multi-core things,

01:14:51   when you're really burning up and using every ounce of the CPU,

01:14:54   it uses a tremendous amount of power, way more than the screen,

01:14:57   way more than an SSD, way more than the RAM.

01:15:00   And so that's why it's a problem.

01:15:03   Not that it's always going like that unless you're playing a game or something,

01:15:05   or something, but when it does, it has the potential to really suck down your battery.

01:15:08   I mean, what is it like that? I think the current has well in the air or whatever, its

01:15:12   max power dissipation is like 25 watts, and like, the battery is like 54 watt hours or

01:15:19   something. So you are not getting 12 hours of battery life out of your MacBook Air if

01:15:24   you are running that CPU at max power all the time. And the second thing is that you're

01:15:30   not looking for an ARM CPU so much as you're looking for an ARM system on a chip. And that's

01:15:35   That's why the Haswell MacBook Airs and everything have such great power.

01:15:38   It's not just because they're better power management in the CPU part, but because they

01:15:42   move more crap onto the CPU die or package.

01:15:46   So the GPU goes onto that, no more discrete GPU, and the, what is it, the PCH thing?

01:15:51   Moving more components into the chip, that's why you can have the A7 system on a chip.

01:15:55   It's not just the CPU, it's the entire system on a little chip.

01:15:58   And yeah, there's a big gap between where Haswell is and the A7 system on a chip, but

01:16:01   again, they're meeting in the middle.

01:16:03   So as time goes on, more and more components are going to get shoved into whatever the

01:16:10   chip is that is, you know, we call the CPU in the Mac, but really will eventually become

01:16:14   a system on a chip.

01:16:15   And the same thing with the phones and everything.

01:16:18   Chip consolidation will happen.

01:16:19   It's just a question of when it happens and where it happens first.

01:16:23   So if you were to stick an A7 to a Mac laptop, you'd get a big advantage because the max

01:16:28   power dissipation of the A7 is way lower than the max power dissipation of a Haswell, and

01:16:32   The chip is slower and everything too.

01:16:35   And so you say, well, 12 hours seems like it's plenty, right?

01:16:39   Well, if it was 24 hours, does that change the equation?

01:16:41   If it's 48 hours, does that change the equation?

01:16:43   At a certain point, it's a discontinuity

01:16:46   where it changes the nature of the way you work with things.

01:16:49   We're not even at that point with phones.

01:16:51   Everyone plugs in their phone at night

01:16:52   now because the odds of you going two days

01:16:54   without charging your phone-- you just feel like, well,

01:16:57   just in case, I'd better plug it in every single night.

01:16:59   Even if you barely use it, it's just a good idea.

01:17:01   We're not at the point where you just use your phone

01:17:03   and charge it every week or whatever,

01:17:05   or every two days or every three days.

01:17:06   Laptops are the same way.

01:17:08   If you use it all day on battery,

01:17:10   you're gonna have to plug it in at night.

01:17:13   If they can cross that next hurdle,

01:17:15   as the phones get better and as computers get better,

01:17:17   if they can cross that next hurdle,

01:17:18   it's worth it for them to do it.

01:17:19   But like Marco said, you have to weigh that

01:17:21   against the architecture change in a lot of stuff,

01:17:24   and Intel's not standing still.

01:17:25   So we should be watching both of these things,

01:17:28   watching how much better phone battery life gets,

01:17:30   how much more they can ring out of those little system on a chip things.

01:17:34   And then also watch Intel and how much better are they getting at making low-powered chips

01:17:38   because by the time an ARM-powered system on the chip is powerful enough to not be embarrassing

01:17:44   inside a Mac, I suspect Intel will also be at that same price in PowerPoint and it'll,

01:17:50   you know, be more of a fair fight between the two.

01:17:53   Well, not that fair because Intel will say, "Hey, everything you have is already compiled

01:17:56   for us."

01:17:57   And like I said in the show where we talked about Bay Trail, Intel's going to be saying

01:18:00   to Apple, don't put ARM CPUs in your Macs, put Intel CPUs in your iOS devices, then you'll

01:18:04   have one architecture across all your products and it will be great and we'll make tons of

01:18:07   money come with us. So that's Intel's end game plan. We'll see how it works out.

01:18:12   We'll also consider that of all the people that I know that use Macs, and almost every

01:18:18   single one that isn't an indie Mac developer that isn't Marco or equivalent, every single

01:18:23   one of them runs either Parallels or VMware on a regular basis to do either their jobs

01:18:28   or something they absolutely have to do in their personal lives.

01:18:32   And that's made a lot easier, and I think one of you alluded to this earlier, that job

01:18:36   is made a lot easier because everything is Intel.

01:18:38   The chip is Intel, Windows is Intel, OS X is Intel, everything is Intel.

01:18:43   And if the chip suddenly became ARM, then you'd be going back to the god-awful PowerPC

01:18:49   days when, wasn't there a time where you would put like a full PC motherboard, not physically

01:18:54   full, but like all the bits with PC motherboard, like an expansion slot in order to make a

01:18:58   virtualization possible. I don't want to have anything to do with that.

01:19:01   That did exist.

01:19:02   Right.

01:19:03   I don't think you have to worry about that in the days when even the Mac Pro has no internal

01:19:06   slots anymore. That's not coming back.

01:19:08   You have a Thunderbolt PC.

01:19:10   Right. But you know what I mean. You know what I'm driving at. It's just that if you

01:19:14   change the processor architecture, that could make getting a Mac a lot harder an argument

01:19:19   for a lot of people, myself included. I mean, I work on Microsoft stuff all day. And I basically

01:19:24   live in VMware Fusion most of my workday. So that would really shut the door on that,

01:19:29   or maybe not shut the door on it, but make it a lot uglier.

01:19:35   Both sides of that have big pluses and big minuses, and they're on a collision course.

01:19:40   Just sit back and watch. Yeah. All right, we good?

01:19:44   Let's wrap it up. Thanks a lot to our two sponsors this week, Squarespace and Transporter,

01:19:50   we will see you next week.

01:19:57   leaving me to begin.

01:19:59   'Cause it was accidental.

01:20:01   (Accidental)

01:20:02   Oh, it was accidental.

01:20:03   (Accidental)

01:20:04   John didn't do any research.

01:20:06   Marco and Casey wouldn't let him.

01:20:09   'Cause it was accidental.

01:20:11   (Accidental)

01:20:12   Oh, it was accidental.

01:20:13   (Accidental)

01:20:14   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm.

01:20:20   And if you're into Twitter,

01:20:23   You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:20:29   So that's K-C-LIS-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:20:33   Anti-Marco-Arment

01:20:36   S-I-R-A-C

01:20:38   USA-Syracusa

01:20:41   It's accidental

01:20:44   They didn't mean to

01:20:46   Accidental

01:20:49   Tech, by Catholic, so long

01:20:54   Alright, do you want to do titles? I really like, "Syracusa County Mall."

01:20:57   That is pretty good, actually. No, "Syracusa County" titles, come on. I will allow a veto, but I do also agree that that is really good.

01:21:05   That was my suggestion. You have to find a better one to override it.

01:21:10   Irish pro graphics.

01:21:13   When did you say that? "Iris." It's me mumbling the word "Iris" like it is in your eye, the colored part of your eye.

01:21:19   Accidental Fashion Podcast. I don't think that should be the winner, but that is kind of funny.

01:21:23   It is pretty good. No one has been trying to correct us on using false positive instead of false negative or whatever

01:21:29   I almost corrected you and then I was like, I'm crazy and I'm missing something. I

01:21:33   Kind of like sea level executives with the sea spelled wrong - what is it with you with the stupid?

01:21:38   I don't know. I'm on a D. Sheehy everyone I pick it's been his suggestion. He's on a roll today. We're gonna tell you he's I

01:21:44   Like his suggestions this week sea level executives look good. It makes me think of like the the sea lion

01:21:50   Slide from WOTC. It's the big sea lion executive.

01:21:54   Oh, God.

01:21:55   Yeah, I might just do shoulder surfing or the pulling the rug out one.

01:21:58   That's fine.

01:22:00   Yeah.

01:22:01   Or sea level executives.

01:22:02   I'm not doing that one.

01:22:04   What is wrong with you, John?

01:22:06   Because they're like, they're like at sea level. You get it? They're not up on a mountain.

01:22:10   They're not in Death Valley.

01:22:11   Sea level executives.

01:22:13   [CRICKETS]