30: Full Frontal Thumb


00:00:00   I want to be a good connector designer.

00:00:03   Do we have anything to talk about tonight?

00:00:05   I don't know, I guess. I mean, there were new iPhones and stuff, but it's really funny

00:00:09   how unsurprising it was. Even the parts that we expected to be

00:00:14   surprised by,

00:00:15   we were wrong. Actually, so I guess therefore it was surprising in those ways.

00:00:21   And I thought the camera stuff was mildly surprising. I hadn't heard anything about

00:00:24   that. Now obviously it's to be expected that there will be better, newer,

00:00:28   faster camera things

00:00:30   But I didn't know the the magnitude of it all and I don't think anyone did and it seems pretty compelling

00:00:36   That's because it wasn't like really camera hardware so much as it was

00:00:40   applying even more software to write a camera problem because like I mean that there is a

00:00:46   point of

00:00:49   Diminishing returns with camera hardware and phones because you know optically speaking you only have so much room to work with there, right?

00:00:55   But if the computing power keeps going up and up,

00:00:59   hey, let's do something with that.

00:01:01   That may be the better place to get benefit from it.

00:01:03   And that seems like that's what they did.

00:01:05   And that's why we wouldn't have heard about that

00:01:06   or thought about that, because you can't leak.

00:01:08   Well, I guess you could.

00:01:09   But it's not on the supply chain.

00:01:11   The software side is not in a supply chain

00:01:13   all over the world.

00:01:14   And there was a small hint in the WVDC slides

00:01:17   for iOS 7's announcement.

00:01:20   There was one of those million little bullet points

00:01:22   that they put all over the place.

00:01:23   One of them was 120 frames per second capture.

00:01:26   And--

00:01:27   Oh, really?

00:01:27   I didn't recall that.

00:01:28   Yeah, there was a little 120 FPS on one of those

00:01:31   in the upper right, I think.

00:01:32   And I don't think any hardware before the 5S

00:01:36   could actually do that.

00:01:37   So I think that was a slight give.

00:01:39   But otherwise, I mean, I think that whole camera stuff

00:01:43   is awesome.

00:01:44   I cannot wait to use it.

00:01:45   I mean, there was an app called-- is it SnappyCam?

00:01:48   Do you know what I'm talking about?

00:01:49   I know what you're talking about,

00:01:50   but I've never used it.

00:01:51   I'll put the link in the show notes.

00:01:53   but I believe it's called SnappyCam.

00:01:56   And it was a camera app that was written

00:01:59   by some incredibly good programmers who basically wrote

00:02:02   their own JPEG encoder and really tweaked the heck out

00:02:07   of the CPU to get tons of performance

00:02:10   so that they could capture, I believe,

00:02:13   it was 30 frames a second on the iPhone 5.

00:02:16   And it was either 30 or 60.

00:02:18   They couldn't reach 120 because the hardware couldn't do it.

00:02:20   But it was either 30 or 60.

00:02:21   And so they could capture that.

00:02:23   And then similar to what we saw in yesterday's iPhone

00:02:24   announcement, you could scroll through and pick your favorite

00:02:27   photo from that giant burst.

00:02:29   And so that was pretty cool.

00:02:31   So I'm actually really happy--

00:02:34   they might not be-- but I'm really happy to see that now

00:02:37   be a regular feature and to have it be better integrated

00:02:39   in the camera roll, too.

00:02:40   Because now you can do things like pick the two or three

00:02:43   shots out of that that you like and delete all of the other

00:02:45   ones, which SnappyCam can only do in very limited ways

00:02:49   because it doesn't have full access to the camera roll

00:02:51   because we don't have those APIs, et cetera.

00:02:53   So yeah, I think it's,

00:02:55   I'm really looking forward

00:02:57   to playing with that camera. That to me,

00:02:59   you know, the 5S is actually

00:03:01   a pretty substantial

00:03:03   speed upgrade, so

00:03:05   it looks. I haven't used one

00:03:07   yet, but it sure looks that way.

00:03:09   But the two things I think

00:03:11   that I'm most excited about are fingerprint

00:03:13   unlocking, because as we discussed last episode, I believe

00:03:15   I'm one of those people who never sets a passcode on my

00:03:17   phone because I just don't want the constant

00:03:19   day-to-day annoyance of that. And so now I will do the fingerprint lock and I'll just

00:03:25   put a couple of my fingers, I'll put my wife's finger and that's it. Then I'm done.

00:03:30   Maybe Adam's if he's lucky. Maybe he'll have to earn that. Maybe Hopps's nose. Otherwise

00:03:36   I think that works. But we'll see. Maybe I'll try that with my new iPhone 5s whenever

00:03:40   I get one.

00:03:41   So what is your annoyance threshold for stopping using that feature? Like what would make you

00:03:46   stop using it? What percentage of it is failing? Like, you try to do it and it doesn't work.

00:03:50   Do you try again and you try again, and you're like, "50% success rate, 90%?" Like, when

00:03:55   do you say, "All right, forget this"?

00:03:57   I would say it would have to work probably at least 95% of the time within about a second.

00:04:03   I don't read—I try to read as much as I could of the coverage, but what I wanted to

00:04:07   see—I guess probably Apple controlled this. If they had direct access to the hands-on

00:04:11   area afterwards, do 50 trials, do 100 trials, do as many trials as you can with success

00:04:18   or failure, you know what I mean? And get some kind of number about percentage-wise,

00:04:22   instead of just trying it and saying, "Oh, it seemed to work pretty well," and you try

00:04:24   it two times, you know what I mean?

00:04:27   Yeah, maybe. The ones we saw in the AnandTech video, and a few other people took videos,

00:04:32   I think, but the one I watched was the AnandTech one, and it was really good. They put it through

00:04:37   the whole process of registering the fingerprint, which looked like it worked really well, and

00:04:40   And then they unlocked it a few times, and it worked very quickly in all instances.

00:04:44   Yeah, well, the thing that they showed in the little movie or one of the ads or something,

00:04:48   they showed the guy grabbing your phone like you do and kind of activating it.

00:04:51   And one of the things he was using, like the side of the corner of his thumb, like we all

00:04:56   do when you grab the phone and go for the home button with your thumb, right?

00:05:01   And if that works that well, I found that impressive, because if that really works that

00:05:05   well, that means that—or maybe did he have to train it on the corner of his thumb?

00:05:09   You know what I mean?

00:05:10   Because we don't always…

00:05:12   If you're going to go and let me give you the full frontal of my thumb or finger to

00:05:16   test the feature versus let me grab the thing out of my pocket, put my finger on it without

00:05:20   looking and get a good read on it.

00:05:23   I think that's where using it in real life is going to be different than trying to put

00:05:28   your finger out in a demo area.

00:05:30   But yeah, if it works like I saw it work in all the little demos all the time, especially

00:05:35   in Apple's ad, that would be great.

00:05:37   Yeah, I'm looking forward to trying that and having that.

00:05:40   I mean, you know, as they said in the keynote,

00:05:43   like, most people don't use a passcode,

00:05:45   and that's kind of bad, and it would be better

00:05:47   if security could be reasonably secure,

00:05:50   yet also very easy so that people would actually do it.

00:05:53   And so, yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

00:05:54   I think that's gonna be cool.

00:05:55   And I don't know, though.

00:05:58   I feel like us talking this much about the iPhone 5S

00:06:02   is almost like talking about this much about the Mac Pro.

00:06:05   Like, I feel like we've now left the mainstream.

00:06:08   Were we, were the three of us ever the mainstream?

00:06:11   That's true.

00:06:12   But here's the thing, though.

00:06:13   Everything you see on the 5S will eventually be on the mainstream.

00:06:16   So it's like, you know, it's a glimpse of the future of the rest of the iOS line.

00:06:21   Even though it's only on this one product now, surely, unless it's a gigantic flop,

00:06:26   it will move on down the line until it's everywhere and just becomes standard, just

00:06:29   like, you know, a rear-facing camera.

00:06:31   Hey, can we go back a step to the camera?

00:06:34   Marco I'm curious to hear as a

00:06:36   quasi professional photographer at one point in your life

00:06:38   What do you think about the flash because I remember vividly years ago when?

00:06:43   The four of us you me and Aaron and Tiff were somewhere and we were talking about how I wish I was a better photographer

00:06:49   And you said well

00:06:50   Let me give you a tip the number one best way to be a better photographer is to never use the flash ever ever ever

00:06:55   and so I've

00:06:57   Stuck by that as any time I couldn't it has made for much better pictures

00:07:00   but I'm curious what your take is on the two flash setup.

00:07:05   Well, it's... that rule still holds true.

00:07:09   If you can avoid using the flash at all, you should.

00:07:13   The flash introduces two huge problems to the entire scene.

00:07:18   One of them is it messes up all the colors of everything,

00:07:21   and the other one is the direction of the light

00:07:23   makes everything look really weird and unappealing.

00:07:26   Now, the flash, the dual color flash, which is a really cool idea, only solves one of

00:07:32   those problems. It only solves the color problem. And that is a big problem, certainly. But

00:07:36   I think the amount of light coming from straight on is a bigger problem that makes things look

00:07:43   worse than just having the wrong color light shown on them. And so it's a very good idea

00:07:49   for when you have to use the flash. And a lot of people just leave the flash on auto

00:07:53   and use it whenever the phone thinks it should or needs to.

00:07:57   And so it's going to help a lot of pictures out,

00:07:59   but it's not going to make a flash picture look

00:08:04   anywhere near as good as a non-flash picture.

00:08:06   Now, a lot of times, if you're in such a dark place

00:08:09   that-- if you're in a bar with your friends, there's no light.

00:08:13   And you're going to have to use the flash.

00:08:15   You just don't have a choice.

00:08:16   If you want a picture at all, you'll have to use the flash,

00:08:18   and that's it.

00:08:19   And so if your choice is picture or no picture at all,

00:08:24   maybe take the picture with the flash.

00:08:26   - Maybe.

00:08:27   (laughs)

00:08:28   - But it's not, I certainly wouldn't rely on that

00:08:31   and it's not going to,

00:08:33   it's not gonna make me want to use the flash anymore

00:08:37   than before, but when I have to use it,

00:08:40   which is very rare, but when I have to use it,

00:08:42   it'll be a little bit better.

00:08:45   - Fair enough.

00:08:46   - So what do you think of the little ridges

00:08:48   the little Fresnel lenses on the flash. Oh, I didn't see that. What's that about?

00:08:53   Yeah, I didn't see this either. I saw it on all the slides, and if you look

00:08:56   on Apple's website, they zoom right in on it, so they must not be shying away from it,

00:08:59   but it is totally at odds with every other physical design feature of this iPhone and

00:09:04   all past iPhones. Go to Apple's iPhone 5s site and scroll down to the part that shows

00:09:10   you the flash. Hold on. This is... I'm curious. I wonder

00:09:13   if that's to spread the light more, which would help. But still, the direction is, "Oh,

00:09:19   yeah, look at that."

00:09:20   Someone says it's pronounced "fren-el," but I will have you know that I looked it

00:09:23   up, and both pronunciations are valid according to Wikipedia, and as we know, Wikipedia never

00:09:29   contains any errors.

00:09:30   Nope. Now, is that—let's see, I'm looking at my iPhone 5. Yeah, the 5 flash does not

00:09:35   look like that, at least from eye distance. I am not a macro lens, but I think—yeah,

00:09:41   I think you're right. I think that is new.

00:09:44   I think that will help because just having a little white LED probably doesn't have a

00:09:50   great spread pattern for the light and now they're taking it more seriously. Like, what

00:09:54   can we do in this limited amount of space? We can put a little lens on it. So that's

00:09:58   pretty good.

00:09:59   Yeah, I think that could be good. Again, it's one of those things that I don't think it's

00:10:06   it's going to really meaningfully make you able to use the flash in a lot of cases where

00:10:12   you couldn't before and have the pictures look good.

00:10:14   I think this will just make the pictures look a little bit better when you have to use the

00:10:18   flash.

00:10:19   But this is a key feature because this gigantic, vast majority of people who use phones do

00:10:25   not follow Marco's advice, don't know about Marco's advice, and will just always use

00:10:29   whatever the thing does automatically.

00:10:30   And don't care.

00:10:31   And don't care.

00:10:32   And don't care.

00:10:33   They're taking a picture of their friends in dark rooms, and if this can make their

00:10:34   pictures look better, that is, it's like the fingerprint thing.

00:10:37   Like it's such a huge win for all the people who never used any security at all.

00:10:43   Maybe if the team that does Chrome security was considering this feature, they'd say,

00:10:46   "Well, fingerprint is not as good as the passcode, therefore we shouldn't include

00:10:49   it because it gives a false sense of security."

00:10:52   I think we should probably also go through the few handful of things that we know are

00:10:55   going to be true about this fingerprint thing and why it doesn't matter.

00:10:58   Like you will be able to spoof it.

00:11:02   will get the little fingerprint signature things out of that chip somehow, and none of that matters.

00:11:07   Because it's not, you know, and passcodes are also more secure. Not four-digit passcodes, obviously,

00:11:14   but like, you know, a big long one or password will be more secure. But I think none of that

00:11:18   matters because this is not an attempt to heighten the maximum possible security of the iPhone. This

00:11:23   is an attempt to heighten the average security of iPhones in use. And I think if it works,

00:11:27   it will definitely do that. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, what I'm curious to see is,

00:11:32   Is it possible to have the fingerprint scanning in addition to a passcode to have arguably

00:11:38   two-factor security, which in big corporate jobs can make or break your ability to use

00:11:45   services that you want to use?

00:11:47   So for example, a lot of VPNs that you need to get on for a corporate environment, they

00:11:52   might require like an RSID or in addition to a password or something along those lines.

00:11:59   And I wonder if there will be a way that you can have the fingerprint in addition to some

00:12:05   sort of passcode, thus you have two-factor security, and thus you can do all these things

00:12:09   you want to do on your corporate network.

00:12:11   Yeah, they didn't mention that, and I'm guessing the reason they didn't mention that is even,

00:12:15   I mean, obviously it is possible, but even if you can enable that feature in the OS,

00:12:19   like the pitch for the fingerprint thing is get all those people who aren't using a passcode

00:12:23   to use something.

00:12:24   The pitch is not, let's double up security.

00:12:26   Because that would be the worst way to advertise a fingerprint thing would be to pitch it as

00:12:31   a heightening of maximum possible security.

00:12:34   Even though with the two-factor it maybe would help with that, I think it's so important

00:12:37   to pitch this as a casual convenience for people who don't want to enter code.

00:12:43   And I'm one of those people.

00:12:44   I have never had a passcode in any of my iOS devices.

00:12:47   In fact, when I connected one of my iOS devices in the past to my work's VPN, and the VPN

00:12:54   or the Exchange server or something in the stack there required that I put a passcode

00:12:57   on my thing, I immediately disconnected from it and said, "Well, never doing that again."

00:13:00   Exactly. Exactly.

00:13:01   I'm never going to enter a passcode. But I will try this fingerprint thing if it works,

00:13:05   if I ever get a device that has a fingerprint scanner in it.

00:13:08   Yeah, that's a good point. Do you think this is going to filter down into the iPod touch

00:13:12   and the iPad? Yeah, like 10 years or something.

00:13:15   No, no. The iPad will get it. I don't see why they would leave it out of the iPad. It's

00:13:19   much bigger, the top-end iPad will surely have the A7. The only reason not to would

00:13:26   be some crazy segmentation. It doesn't even make sense to me. I don't see why it wouldn't

00:13:31   be on the top-end iPads. The iPod touch, of course, Apple doesn't care about that. This

00:13:35   is an S year, and the S year is the iPad touch gets screwed. So we'll wait till next year.

00:13:42   I am curious to see what happens with the iPad this fall, because it seems like most

00:13:49   Most of the time, the iPhone is Apple's big thing for the year.

00:13:54   And it's the event that most people watch.

00:13:56   It's the one that breaks all the live streaming or live blogging things.

00:14:00   It's the highest profile event they have of the year.

00:14:04   But they started with it this year.

00:14:06   And there's still a whole lot of products to announce that are very likely to be coming

00:14:09   out in the next few months.

00:14:11   I wonder if...

00:14:14   How quickly are we all going to forget about how unsurprising this was once we see the

00:14:18   other product unveilings?

00:14:19   Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure what to... I'm still processing like the whole event.

00:14:26   I watched the video and I have some thoughts on that that we should get to at some point,

00:14:30   but I'm a little disappointed, and this has been said a lot, that so much was known. I

00:14:35   am very enthusiastic about the camera. I'm very enthusiastic that the thumbprint scanner

00:14:39   seems to work as great as it does. Obviously, we'll all find out whenever we get them. I'm

00:14:45   I'm super disappointed that there's not going to be preorders on the 5S because it is our

00:14:50   year in the LIS household to get a new phone and I'm very excited.

00:14:54   But I have an actual JOB job so I can't just blow off work on a Friday and wait in line

00:14:59   for hours and hours, not that I'd probably want to anyway.

00:15:03   So now I've got to just suffer the unbelievable tragedy of not having my 5S on launch day.

00:15:09   Yeah, it's probably a good bet that the 5S will be supply constrained.

00:15:14   Yeah, which means we won't have them for a long time. It might not be that long, but like you know

00:15:20   They're gonna they're gonna sell out not because it's wildly popular though

00:15:23   It may be but really because this is the first device ever to have the a7 in it and presumably that's the the gating factor

00:15:29   Yeah, and Gruber wrote about this in his post about the event and I think I think that's spot-on which is that

00:15:35   Splitting up the phone line like this and making making the old iPhone

00:15:41   or at least the old iPhone core,

00:15:43   making that the new mainstream model

00:15:46   allows them to do things like,

00:15:48   remember there were all the rumors

00:15:49   they were having trouble with in-cell touch

00:15:50   and getting good yields on that?

00:15:53   Things like retina iPads and stuff like that,

00:15:56   like all the big, bold, forward-looking supply decisions

00:16:01   or component decisions that can severely limit yields,

00:16:04   limit supply, and make that a big problem.

00:16:08   They can now start doing that

00:16:09   because the highest end device is no longer the mainstream device.

00:16:12   That's true of iPads and iPhones now.

00:16:14   And I think that's actually a good move.

00:16:17   Presumably they're getting, they're making, I don't know if they're making more money,

00:16:22   but like if the most popular phone turns out to be the 5C, they've been making that

00:16:28   phone for a while now and their costs of manufacture must be down, even if they

00:16:33   hadn't gone to plastic, which they also did.

00:16:35   Of course, they also lowered the price as well.

00:16:36   but I wonder if the smile on Tim Cook's face was an expression of the fact that we're

00:16:44   going to sell a ton of 5Cs and they actually might have higher profit margins for us than

00:16:51   the original 5 did, which would be an amazing thing where they sell the same phone a year

00:16:57   later and they drive down the cost of manufacture so much that it actually gives you bigger

00:17:01   profit margins than your previous top-end phone.

00:17:03   Oh, yeah. And they need that. Wall Street's been picking on them a lot recently and a

00:17:08   lot of it is just temporary and unfounded. But it's also pretty obvious that their

00:17:12   margins are going down slowly over time because these markets are getting more competitive,

00:17:18   especially price-wise, especially in tablets. And so their margins are just getting smaller

00:17:23   and smaller. The iPad, they used to be able to sell these things for like $600 or $700

00:17:28   to the mass market and now they're selling like,

00:17:31   you know, the $300 iPad mini and, you know,

00:17:34   who knows what's gonna happen there this fall.

00:17:36   And so I think they need something like the 5C,

00:17:41   which honestly, I think it's a brilliant move,

00:17:43   it's a brilliant product and it's a brilliant launch

00:17:45   to do this 'cause I bet you're right,

00:17:47   I bet their margin is substantially better on it.

00:17:49   They're also now selling first party cases again

00:17:53   and you cannot discount how significant that is.

00:17:56   You know, if they, you know, let's say they make

00:17:59   two or three hundred bucks, I don't know what the profit

00:18:01   margin is usually on a phone, on an iPhone,

00:18:02   it's something like that I think.

00:18:04   Yeah, let's say two hundred bucks.

00:18:06   If they're also selling you a forty dollar case

00:18:10   to like sixty or fifty percent of the people

00:18:12   who buy the phone, which I think is probably fair,

00:18:15   that's really good.

00:18:16   I mean, they made a killing off the bumpers

00:18:17   for the iPhone 4 and 4S, I think they're gonna make

00:18:20   a killing on these cases too.

00:18:21   And that's just so much money.

00:18:23   They probably still make more money from the Made for iPhone certification program because

00:18:29   they get a cut of every single other case manufacturer's profits.

00:18:33   So the cumulative total of their license fees for the Made for iPhone product seal or whatever

00:18:38   thing they have going there still is going to dwarf their own things.

00:18:41   But they're probably like, "Hey, if we can make a product with 90% margins, even if it's

00:18:45   only 90% of $40 or $70, let's do that because it can't hurt."

00:18:51   The other thing on the 5C margins is if you think back to the earnings calls, before the

00:18:54   iPad Mini came out, they said, "Our margins are going to be decreasing, blah, blah, blah."

00:19:00   And then the Mini came out and it made sense.

00:19:02   It's like, "Okay, that's why your margins are decreasing because you know you're going

00:19:04   to sell a ton of these Minis and they cost less money and you don't make as much money

00:19:09   in each one of those as you were making on the previous iPad, so there you go."

00:19:12   But don't recall a similar warning about margins, or at least not one to such a degree, before

00:19:19   the 5C announcement. And I think it's because they feel like they can maintain. They're

00:19:24   probably going to go down a little bit, but it's not going to be as dramatic a drop as

00:19:28   it was when they released the iPad mini.

00:19:31   Yeah, I think you're right about that.

00:19:33   I certainly did not put two and two together, but you make a very good point. And it certainly

00:19:36   seems to me that the 5C is a play to continue to make a tremendous amount of money from

00:19:43   people who maybe—if the 5C didn't exist, what would they be buying? Just a regular

00:19:49   iPhone 5 and probably doing so begrudgingly because it's not new and shiny.

00:19:53   So I have two thumbs up for the 5C in principle from a business perspective.

00:19:58   I don't personally see why I would want one because it's older tech and there's a few

00:20:04   things in the 5S that I still think we should talk about that are also very interesting.

00:20:10   But from a business perspective, it seems like a killer deal.

00:20:14   We were talking last show, I think, about how are you going to differentiate the two.

00:20:18   We talked about a 5C Envy, like, boy, the 5C looks really cool,

00:20:22   and it feels nice in your hand, and it comes in colors.

00:20:26   What can they do to the boring old little black, gray, white,

00:20:30   monolith iPhone 5-looking thing to make it

00:20:33   an object of desire for anyone?

00:20:36   Gold.

00:20:36   For-- yeah, besides gold.

00:20:39   Although that probably is a factor there.

00:20:41   And we got the answer.

00:20:42   And the answer was the fingerprint thing, which we knew.

00:20:44   And Apple's second part is emphasizing, you know,

00:20:49   plain old fashioned computing power.

00:20:52   Like that was their pitch to people.

00:20:53   It's got a fingerprint thing and it's twice as fast.

00:20:56   And the combination of those two, they hope,

00:20:58   is enough to securely grab all the people

00:21:00   who gotta have the latest, greatest thing

00:21:02   and to make us forget about the colorful,

00:21:05   more comfortable, nicely curved 5C.

00:21:07   - Yeah, Steven Hackett in the chat said,

00:21:10   "I talked to several semi-nerds who said

00:21:12   "they were thinking about, quote, upgrading

00:21:14   to the 5C from the 5. That's the power of colors in marketing, and I think that's

00:21:18   dead on.

00:21:19   Oh, totally. I mean, you cannot underestimate the importance of things like color and appearance

00:21:23   and newness for something like this. For most products, really, but especially for something

00:21:27   like this where people are kind of… There's a fast upgrade cycle relative to most electronic

00:21:32   products, and it's very much a personal item. It's always with you. People always

00:21:36   try to personalize it with cases and stuff like that. And so to have something visibly

00:21:41   very new and different, especially something that's so visually different from what came

00:21:47   before it. I think that's really valuable, and a lot of people are going to want that,

00:21:51   even who already have iPhone 5s.

00:21:53   And I've been on the bandwagon for a long time of, like, Apple needs to make a new—to

00:22:00   upgrade the phone line to be more than just one phone, to make a new varied thing. And

00:22:03   it's like, why would they make it new? Why wouldn't they just keep selling the old

00:22:06   one? They've got all the parts. They know how to make the old one just fine. And I've

00:22:09   always said, "I think you can make a better phone if you start, not from scratch, but

00:22:15   make a purpose-built phone that you know you're going to sell for less money."

00:22:20   And people said, "What could they do?

00:22:21   Why don't they just keep selling it for?"

00:22:23   Well, Apple has shown what they can do.

00:22:24   What can you do?

00:22:25   You can stop using aluminum.

00:22:26   You can use plastic.

00:22:27   It's cheaper.

00:22:28   You can make the battery a little bit bigger.

00:22:29   You can put it in a nicer camera.

00:22:30   You can give it colors to differentiate it.

00:22:33   And we're right technology-wise that the slightly bigger batteries probably don't

00:22:38   that much a difference and no one's going to notice that the front camera is a little

00:22:40   bit better or anything, but everyone will notice the lower price, which the plastic

00:22:45   helped derive, and everyone will notice the different shape and color.

00:22:49   It's such a dramatically different product, sales, marketing, and performance-wise, like

00:22:54   market performance-wise, than the 5, even though it is like 99.9% just a plain old iPhone

00:23:00   5.

00:23:01   And this is what I was talking about, and the fact that of course they can sell it for

00:23:04   for $100 less for the bottom end model.

00:23:07   So I'm glad to see they went through with it.

00:23:09   I still think there's more diversification possible,

00:23:11   but one step at a time.

00:23:12   This is a good step in the right direction.

00:23:14   - Definitely.

00:23:15   - Yeah, do you wanna tell us about something awesome

00:23:17   that I'd like to get nerdy about the A7 for a few minutes?

00:23:20   - Absolutely.

00:23:21   Do you mean the Audi or the Apple CPU?

00:23:23   - Either, but I was referring to the Apple CPU.

00:23:26   - Okay, our first sponsor this week is a return sponsor.

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00:24:56   So during the event, they talked a lot

00:25:00   about the A7, which is Apple's new system on a chip.

00:25:04   And they--

00:25:05   I believe it's pronounced "sock."

00:25:07   Like "noss."

00:25:08   No, anyway.

00:25:10   So they talked a lot about how it's 64-bit,

00:25:13   and I'd like to explore that a little bit.

00:25:15   And they also talked about how it's

00:25:17   a different instruction set.

00:25:18   And I believe during the keynote,

00:25:21   They also talked about there being more registers, which is what's really interesting to me.

00:25:26   Yeah, twice as many.

00:25:27   Mm-hmm.

00:25:28   So let me start with the 64-bit piece.

00:25:31   So it's been a long time since I've taken computer hardware courses and things of that

00:25:37   nature, but I'm trying to grasp why that's a big deal today.

00:25:43   I think it – I'm guessing that it's important for multimedia applications such

00:25:49   as moving data for images around and things of that nature.

00:25:53   But if you take the very shallow view, if you're not addressing more than 4 gigs of

00:25:58   memory, why does this matter?

00:26:01   And I'm kind of looking to you, John, to fill us all in.

00:26:04   The reaction to this, I was kind of disappointed in the nerd reaction to this, because as far

00:26:07   as I can tell, and I did watch the video plus all the live blogs, Apple never said that

00:26:12   the A7 is twice as fast as the A6 because it's 64-bit.

00:26:18   And every single thing I saw from nerds was like, "64-bit doesn't make it faster.

00:26:23   64-bit is not twice as fast."

00:26:24   Of course it's not.

00:26:25   They never said it was.

00:26:26   Who's saying it was?

00:26:27   Everyone just set up that straw man and just beat it to death over the course of the whole

00:26:31   day.

00:26:32   And I know regular people are confused and they think 64 is twice as big as 32 or whatever,

00:26:34   but we're all nerds here.

00:26:36   We know 64-bit doesn't make it twice as fast.

00:26:38   If anyone was alive during the Nintendo 64 era, you learned that when you were eight

00:26:42   years old or however old you were when N64 came out.

00:26:46   So that was disappointing, because I don't think it was bashing on anything that Apple

00:26:51   said.

00:26:52   Apple said it was 64-bit.

00:26:53   Apple said it was twice as fast, but I don't think they drew any sort of line, dotted or

00:26:57   otherwise, between those two things.

00:26:59   So that's issue one.

00:27:01   And by the way, for people who don't know the tech details, the reason people were beating

00:27:05   up on that straw man is because all other things being equal, 64-bit CPUs are slower

00:27:11   than 32-bit, because all your pointers are 64-bit, and if all other things are equal,

00:27:14   That means your instruction and data caches are the same size, and now they may be the

00:27:18   same size, but now you've got to store 64-bit pointers instead of 32, so now you have more

00:27:21   cache pressure, and it's not memory bandwidth for getting instructions to and from.

00:27:27   Things get bigger in 64-bit, and unless you increase everything else, which of course

00:27:30   regular 64-bit chips usually do, but again, all other things being exactly equal, 64-bit

00:27:35   is actually slower than 32.

00:27:37   When you make a real 64-bit chip, they know that you have more data to move around, and

00:27:42   make the caches bigger, and they make the buses wider, and they tweak things and do

00:27:45   all this stuff.

00:27:46   So in the end, it can end up being a wash, but you're not getting twice as much performance

00:27:51   out of it unless other things are different.

00:27:53   And the reason there might be some misinformation floating around about this is that in real

00:27:57   live CPU architectures, there have been cases where 64-bit gives you a boost that has nothing

00:28:02   to do with 64-bit directly.

00:28:04   So for example, x86, the 32-bit instruction set on Intel's chips, is ancient and crappy

00:28:11   and disgusting. And when AMD created a 64-bit extension of that instruction set, it says,

00:28:16   "Now it's our chance to get rid of some of the crappy stuff, and let's make instructions that

00:28:21   are nicer." And so 64-bit Intel chips that use the x8664 instruction set from AMD got a 15%

00:28:30   speed boost, not because they were 64-bit, but merely because the 64-bit instruction set could

00:28:34   do less stupid ass backward things. And so you'd want to use the 64-bit instructions,

00:28:39   is you got access to more registers, because the old x86, the IA-32 architecture, was like

00:28:44   register starved by modern standards.

00:28:46   And they made instructions that could execute faster on the way modern chips are designed

00:28:51   and everything like that.

00:28:52   So 64-bit Intel chips were faster than 32-bit ones, but not because they were 64-bit, merely

00:28:58   because the 64-bit transition gave the designers a chance to sort of update their thinking.

00:29:04   That could be the case in the ARM architecture as well.

00:29:06   Maybe they get a couple percentage speed boosts of saying, OK, well, a lot of these ARM things

00:29:11   were made back in the day when we were designing really tiny chips, and smartphones were just

00:29:16   a glimmer in our eye.

00:29:17   Now is our chance with this transition from the 32-bit to 64-bit to revisit some of those

00:29:22   assumptions and maybe make an instruction set that's more tailored to modern hardware

00:29:27   capabilities.

00:29:29   And maybe we'll get a couple percent here and there speed boost from that.

00:29:32   That's still not where you're getting your double performance from.

00:29:35   And that, I think, is the place where people are still scratching their heads.

00:29:38   It's like, "Okay, well, anyone in the know, like AnandTech or whatever, says, 'Okay,

00:29:44   Apple says twice as fast.'"

00:29:46   If we take them at their word, there has to be some explanation to that.

00:29:49   Higher clock speed, a larger amount of instructions per clock, extracting more instruction parallelism

00:29:55   with bigger windows, more rename registers.

00:30:01   All the typical things that you do with any CPU, making the pipeline longer and cranking

00:30:04   Like we don't know what they did because Apple didn't tell us all they said was all they did was show us a chart

00:30:09   So once the CPU guys get their hands on this thing

00:30:11   They will tell us is it actually twice as fast under what conditions and how did they do it?

00:30:15   And the answer of how they did is not going to be they made a 64-bit

00:30:18   Right and some of the things you said I think are absolutely true in this case

00:30:24   Specifically by moving to a new version of the ARM architecture. So from based on a little bit of reading I did before the show

00:30:32   accidental

00:30:34   It seems as though they moved to ARMv8 and I found a blog post that has a couple great links

00:30:40   Which I put in chat a moment ago and it talks about some of the changes that were made now

00:30:44   I think the speed increase to me probably comes from more registers, but we can talk about that in a second

00:30:50   But some of the things they did were they made all of the instructions exactly 32 bits

00:30:55   And so instructions are always the exact same size

00:30:58   They added a crud load of registers, like I said,

00:31:02   and they did change the instruction set,

00:31:05   just like you said, John, in order to simplify it

00:31:08   and get rid of some of the cruft

00:31:10   that they didn't want anymore.

00:31:11   So if the A7 really is using ARMv8,

00:31:16   then that could explain a lot of these differences.

00:31:20   - And that's not gonna give you double performance though.

00:31:22   Adding double the amount of registers

00:31:24   is not gonna double your performance.

00:31:25   And like none of those things you listed

00:31:27   going to double. If you're going to get a doubling, it has to be more execution units,

00:31:32   bigger execution window, higher clock speed, maybe longer pipeline to get that. You don't

00:31:38   get double performance from those things. You get percentage increases. You have to

00:31:41   do something fundamental, like how many instructions are dispatched per clock? How high is the

00:31:47   clock speed? Those type of things. That's where you get your doubling from.

00:31:51   Again, all we have to go on is Apple's claim of doubling. There may be specific benchmarks

00:31:56   in which it really does double, but we need to get this into the hands of someone who's

00:32:00   going to do real benchmarks and say, "Okay, what is the actual increase? Is it double

00:32:03   in SIMD stuff because the SIMD instruction set in 32-bit was crappy and now it's way,

00:32:07   way better?" That's easy to get a double win there if you just say, "Look, the new SIMD

00:32:11   instruction set is way better than it was before. We have twice as many SIMD registers,

00:32:16   and we can address them as 64 bits in addition to 128 bits, and so now we can easy doubling

00:32:21   on this particular benchmark." But do you get doubling across the board? Probably not.

00:32:26   So we'll see.

00:32:28   No, I agree.

00:32:29   And I think the thing that's interesting to me

00:32:32   about the significantly increased, I guess,

00:32:35   doubling of the amount of registers

00:32:37   is that if you're not familiar, registers

00:32:39   are little bits of memory that are basically

00:32:42   on the CPU for all intents and purposes, oftentimes literally.

00:32:45   And so if you need to store something somewhere,

00:32:47   the quickest and easiest place to store that

00:32:49   is in these registers.

00:32:50   And then eventually you can move it off

00:32:51   into other memory elsewhere.

00:32:53   And so having a lot more of these registers

00:32:54   things, like you said, a lot quicker.

00:32:56   Now, how much is a lot?

00:32:57   Maybe it's 1%, maybe it's 10%.

00:33:00   I would tend to agree it's probably not 200%,

00:33:03   but I'm curious to see what's going to be made of that.

00:33:07   And I'm curious to see, just like you said,

00:33:09   what is this really all about deep down inside?

00:33:12   Did you find out if it's really double the number of code

00:33:16   addressable registers, or if they're

00:33:18   talking about rename registers?

00:33:20   I thought it was double the number of registers.

00:33:23   They went like TP4 in the chat, and this sounds right.

00:33:27   14 to 31 with a hardwired stack pointer

00:33:30   and one other special register that I'm forgetting.

00:33:34   - Yeah, I looked at that thing and I said that,

00:33:36   I don't know anything about the previous ARM instructions,

00:33:38   and just looking at the slides, assume that you do,

00:33:40   but it was like, oh, now the program counter

00:33:42   isn't in a register, I guess it used to be.

00:33:43   Oh, now the stack pointer isn't in a register.

00:33:45   A, stack pointer, and B, yeah, okay, that's good.

00:33:48   And a dedicated zero register, like, yeah.

00:33:51   All sorts of things that give me a vague indirect picture of what the old ARM instruction set

00:33:56   in 32-bit used to be like compared to the new one.

00:33:59   I've heard reports from people on Twitter that the 64-bit instruction set for ARM looks

00:34:04   a lot like MIPS, which was a very classical risk-type thing.

00:34:08   Again, the old instruction's the same size, executing in predictable number of clock cycles

00:34:13   and the whole nine yards.

00:34:15   versus ARM, which looks kind of weird,

00:34:17   but those power-sipping features where

00:34:21   things could be small in variable size

00:34:23   and stuff like that.

00:34:25   Yeah, so we'll see what 8inTech says

00:34:27   when they dissect it whenever they get their hands on it.

00:34:30   And another easy way, by the way,

00:34:31   before we leave this topic, to get speed boost,

00:34:33   is to just add a bunch more L1 and L2 cache.

00:34:36   That's a cheap way to-- well, it's not cheap.

00:34:39   Well, you know what I mean, but to win benchmarks.

00:34:41   If it couldn't fit in L1, it couldn't fit in L2 cache

00:34:44   before, but now it can. Suddenly you get a double speed up. It's like, "Hey, we're

00:34:48   twice as fast," provided you something that fits in cache.

00:34:51   All right, so any other extraordinarily nerdy bits?

00:34:57   I think it's worth looking at a lot of these things. The CPU is one thing. We saw last

00:35:00   year when the A6 debuted and it used Apple's new Swift architecture. We saw the beginnings

00:35:07   of it there. I think we're seeing Apple do more and more specialized things, maybe

00:35:13   not necessarily primarily, but certainly

00:35:16   secondarily for the purpose of making it harder to copy

00:35:20   or match what they're doing.

00:35:22   Like if you look at a lot of these things,

00:35:24   iOS 7 is a total redesign.

00:35:27   We talked about this back when it was announced and how

00:35:30   a lot of that is going to be not impossible to copy,

00:35:33   but harder for certain hardware, for certain designs,

00:35:36   for certain setups.

00:35:39   You look at things like the crazy camera stuff,

00:35:43   The camera stuff you can copy, because that's just like an app, and Samsung can bundle their

00:35:46   own camera app and do that. But to do something like the fingerprint unlock of not just the

00:35:54   phone, but to use fingerprints to read or to authenticate you to the store to buy things,

00:36:02   that's going to be one thing. You need a lot of integration down the line to make that

00:36:06   happen. And I don't know if Android's going to be able to pull that off. Windows Phone

00:36:08   could.

00:36:09   The cloners can do the crappy clone of that. Here's the crappy clone of fingerprint unlock

00:36:12   in the store.

00:36:13   They make you enter your password, and then they store it off on the side somewhere, and

00:36:17   then they recognize your fingerprint, and then they get the password out of the little

00:36:20   file.

00:36:21   Like, you can do a terrible copy of all these things.

00:36:22   And you say, "Who would make a terrible copy of Apple's thing?

00:36:25   Hmm."

00:36:26   I don't think they're above, like, you know, I mean, doing it the right way, yes, is difficult

00:36:31   to copy.

00:36:32   I'm not sure that he's doing these things to be difficult to copy.

00:36:34   And one instance when you were saying, like, with the OS, it reminds me that Apple—some

00:36:39   Some of Apple's features in iOS 7 are actually difficult for iOS developers to copy.

00:36:43   I'm thinking in particular of the little transparent things that fuzz out the background that slide

00:36:48   up over.

00:36:49   Those are actually very easy to copy.

00:36:50   The interface, it depends on the context.

00:36:53   I've seen a lot of people in the NDA forums discussing this very issue and saying, "We'd

00:36:59   like to be able to have a way to do that kind of filtering that you do in iOS 7," and then

00:37:03   Apple people saying, "There's not yet a public API for that," and then them fighting with

00:37:07   with each other about why there's not yet a public API

00:37:09   for all the things they want to do.

00:37:11   Although you can rip the layer off a toolbar and done.

00:37:16   Yeah, you can do some things, but they're like-- basically,

00:37:18   you'll see an Apple app that will do something.

00:37:20   You'd say, hey, I'd like to do that same thing in my app.

00:37:22   And you'll find out that there's a public API that

00:37:24   does something close to that, but not quite.

00:37:26   And there's no public API to do exactly what they do.

00:37:28   And then you complain.

00:37:30   And it's not because Apple is obstinate.

00:37:32   It's because, technically speaking,

00:37:34   Apple was barely able to do what they're able to do,

00:37:38   and they can't do it in a way that works

00:37:39   in a general purpose API.

00:37:40   They can only do it the crazy cheating way

00:37:42   that they have to do it.

00:37:44   It's true of anything that Apple does.

00:37:46   A lot of times, Apple gets the APIs first.

00:37:48   I think even core text and boring things like that.

00:37:51   Apple gets them first.

00:37:52   They're in Apple's apps first.

00:37:54   You don't get them.

00:37:54   They're private APIs.

00:37:55   And in the Mac days, it's like, well, you could figure it out

00:37:58   and use them anyway, but at your own risk.

00:38:00   But in iOS, it's like, no, you don't get them at all

00:38:03   until or unless Apple decides we can make a general purpose API from this that we're

00:38:07   going to support forever. And if they never can, you never get the API. But in the meantime,

00:38:11   only Apple apps get it, or the OS gets it.

00:38:13   I want to do our second sponsor this week.

00:38:17   Sure.

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00:40:25   All right, so I realize there's another bit of nerdery we should probably talk about,

00:40:30   which is the M7.

00:40:31   Wait, did I miss the BMW announcement?

00:40:34   Yeah, exactly. Somebody joked—I don't remember who it was now—that Apple's come

00:40:39   out with the M7 and BMW's come out with the i8, so things are totally backwards now.

00:40:44   So we should talk about this M7, which is, I'm going to call it, and I'll probably wrongly

00:40:49   call it a co-processor, but it's kind of like a second chip that sits there and apparently

00:40:54   deals with the accelerometer, and I believe the GPS and a bunch of other motion-related

00:41:00   things.

00:41:01   And the implication, but not statement to my knowledge, was that it will also log a

00:41:07   lot of these events so that the A7 doesn't have to power on and handle them and deal

00:41:12   with them.

00:41:13   then it can potentially fish all these log entries off to some app like a Fitbit app

00:41:19   or something like that.

00:41:21   And it seems like a very interesting play in order to enable some really interesting

00:41:27   more biometric data on the phone.

00:41:30   And somebody, it might have been one of you guys, pointed out, "I wonder if this M7

00:41:34   is going to end up in some other kind of device eventually, like maybe a watch or something

00:41:38   like that."

00:41:39   Do you guys have any thoughts on this?

00:41:40   Yeah, that's the obvious move for the M7.

00:41:42   And also, by the way, for the A7, the buzz about both of these things is other devices

00:41:48   that they could appear in.

00:41:49   M7, obviously, if Apple makes something wearable, you'll be seeing that chip again, or the marketing

00:41:56   label for that chip anyway.

00:41:58   And the A7, 64-bit ARM chip, everyone is always like, "Well, we're going to put an ARM in

00:42:03   the MacBook Air and get 50 hours of battery life out of it," or some crazy thing.

00:42:07   Well, the Airs are already up to a ridiculous amount of battery life with Intel chips in

00:42:11   it.

00:42:12   convinced that there's any need in particular to bring the arm to the air

00:42:17   because I think Intel is coming from the other direction and they haven't yet

00:42:20   met in the middle. The A7 isn't as fast as current MacBook Air CPUs and

00:42:24   the current MacBook Air CPUs are nowhere as power efficient as the A7, but

00:42:29   they're converging on a middle point and wherever they hit each other

00:42:32   look at where that point is and decide is this a viable, you know, can we make a

00:42:37   viable Mac with this amount of processing power? Because if you can't

00:42:40   then you know there's no point in enduring the pain and fat binaries of trying to make an arm-based Mac

00:42:46   but the M7 in

00:42:48   some other device that's you know that you wear seems like a slam dunk

00:42:53   You know we should also point out that it enables

00:42:57   they say it enables things like knowing the difference between you driving and walking and

00:43:02   I'm not really clear why we didn't already know that by way of the GPS or something power hungry like that

00:43:08   And maybe it's just that it doesn't need something power hungry to figure this out.

00:43:11   But that presumably will lead to some interesting use cases that I can't fathom.

00:43:17   But I think the example I saw was that Apple said when you are getting directions somewhere,

00:43:24   let's say you're driving into a metropolitan area and you park your car, but you're not

00:43:28   quite where you need to be, then maps will automatically switch from driving directions

00:43:33   to walking directions once it sees that you've slowed down to the point of walking.

00:43:37   So things like that are pretty cool.

00:43:38   If you're at a red light, that would kind of suck.

00:43:40   Yeah, exactly.

00:43:42   Well, I can tell whether you're in the car,

00:43:44   maybe with the vibrations of the butt massaging.

00:43:48   It doesn't vibrate.

00:43:49   These are not features of the M7, obviously.

00:43:52   These are APIs that Apple-- core motion APIs

00:43:55   that Apple's going to expose.

00:43:56   Like you say, Casey, all the chip is doing

00:43:58   is being really low power and writing a bunch of information

00:44:01   out to someplace that when this whole system comes back up,

00:44:04   they can read and interpret it.

00:44:06   The thing that's reading and interpreting them

00:44:07   code that Apple writes that then provide APIs to figure this stuff out. The M7 itself is just,

00:44:12   you know, not... The impressive thing is that it exists, not the implementation of it, because

00:44:17   it's probably, you know, hey, this tiny chip has... I don't even know if it's a separate chip.

00:44:22   Apple presents it as such, but for all we know, it could be on the same package somewhere.

00:44:25   Sits there and does one job and does it well and doesn't have to involve the CPU,

00:44:30   and its whole job is to be there and write stuff down so when the CPU wakes up, it can say, "Oh,

00:44:36   I don't know what was happening because I was asleep, but that guy over there knows,

00:44:39   let me get the list of everything that happened, and let me run a whole bunch of software that

00:44:41   Apple wrote to grind over that data to figure out, okay, driving, doing this or whatever.

00:44:46   And of course, if everything's turned on at the same time, then they're working in concert.

00:44:48   But the key feature is you walk around with your phone in your pocket and you grab your

00:44:53   phone, take it out, open your fitness tracker, and it immediately wakes up, reads all the

00:44:57   historical data, and tells you how many steps you've taken.

00:45:00   Well, and it's also maybe doing a lot of that in hardware or in very, very lightweight software.

00:45:05   So far what we've had, even with the very first iPhone,

00:45:09   we had the accelerometer,

00:45:10   but the data you get from it is raw.

00:45:13   It's just like the current motion acceleration

00:45:18   being put on the phone in three axes, X, Y, Z, that's it.

00:45:21   And then when they added the gyroscope,

00:45:23   then you could get things like the current phone alignment

00:45:25   or attitude, they call it, I think,

00:45:27   which is the angle in space the phone currently is,

00:45:30   and then the compass doesn't work.

00:45:32   So have you ever had a compass that worked?

00:45:34   I haven't.

00:45:35   You have to move it into figure eight pattern.

00:45:37   Yeah.

00:45:38   I'm not sure if you know that.

00:45:39   It never works.

00:45:41   That's an elaborate troll by someone inside Apple to see if they can make people take

00:45:44   their phones and wave them around.

00:45:45   Oh, totally.

00:45:47   So before, even, and Apple has improved the API.

00:45:49   I believe iOS 5 was it, added core motion.

00:45:52   It might have even been 6.

00:45:54   But they improved the API to make this a little bit easier, but you still had to deal with

00:46:00   data for the most part in software, you know, in the full user space code that you were

00:46:05   writing. And so if they can move, if they moved some of that down, which it sounds like

00:46:09   the M7, regardless of what its hardware implementation is, it's something that parses all that raw

00:46:17   data for you in some kind of extremely low power state. And so rather than saying, here,

00:46:23   you know, here's all of the data from 60 hertz for the last six hours, you know, here's like

00:46:29   like this tremendous array of floats that you have to deal with and figure out yourself.

00:46:34   They can, they can shrink that down with some kind of heuristics that are hopefully very

00:46:36   lightweight to say like, all right, just, if you want to know how many steps the user

00:46:41   took, just register for number of steps, tell us when to start and when to stop, and we'll

00:46:45   give you what was there in the middle. And if, if that's really what it does, that's

00:46:50   a massive, not only time saver for developers, but if they do it right, if they've implemented

00:46:56   this in low-level hardware that's very low power, which it sounds like that was the idea,

00:47:01   then this is a whole new class of possibilities that before would have just been not only

00:47:06   way too power hungry, but you wouldn't be able to do them unless you were using GPS

00:47:10   constantly because you wouldn't be able to run in the background that long.

00:47:14   This kind of analysis to FS events in Mac OS X where you have something that's trying

00:47:18   to keep track of everything that happens to the file system, but it's just too much data.

00:47:22   So it massively compresses stuff, it coalesces similar events and periods of time, and it

00:47:26   summarizes, and then it jams it all into a log.

00:47:29   So yeah, this little thing has to be doing, if only for compression purposes, some interpretation

00:47:34   of the data, because you can't store that recorded data for an hour's worth of walking

00:47:40   and if it really wasn't 60 hertz, that's just too much data to be putting somewhere.

00:47:43   So I have to imagine that it's doing some sort of coalescing and compressing and summarization

00:47:48   and interpretation, or even just lowering the sample rate.

00:47:51   Because seriously, your sample rate

00:47:53   doesn't need to be 60 hertz to tell when people are walking.

00:47:57   And then anything up the chain could further massage the data.

00:48:00   But I think it's probably like a storage issue in terms

00:48:02   of who decides to summarize data, who

00:48:05   does the motion smoothing, who does the interpretation.

00:48:08   And they must be doing something down there in the M7,

00:48:11   because otherwise it would just be filling up

00:48:13   this giant buffer full of stuff.

00:48:16   It's funny you bring up coalescing.

00:48:18   and I was going to say a minute ago that this is almost like the year of coalescing for

00:48:21   Apple because we had the timer coalescing in OS X Mavericks and now we have this motion

00:48:27   coalescing and I know Federico is going to be very happy about that.

00:48:31   So in any case, anything else on either of the bits of hardware?

00:48:37   The 5C case we were talking about last week.

00:48:41   Oh yes, yes.

00:48:42   About it, you know.

00:48:43   The hot case.

00:48:44   If they make this, no not that, well I mean first before we get to the thing with the

00:48:47   holes in it. The plastic back of it, you know, it being curved and more comfortable, we also

00:48:51   have from the pictures, but what we can't see in the pictures is what kind of material

00:48:55   is that. And I mentioned last time that if they made it out of a material that's more

00:48:58   grippy and less slippery than, you know, the glass back or the metal thing, then maybe

00:49:04   you wouldn't even need a case on it. And, you know, again, because they're coming in

00:49:07   different colors, who's going to buy a colorful phone and slap a case on it, completely covering

00:49:10   the cover part, the color part rather. So Apple's answer was, we're going to make it

00:49:16   out of a super hard, super glossy material, so forget about it being remotely squishy.

00:49:21   And we're going to sell our own case, made of silicone, my old favorite case material,

00:49:25   because it is squishy, and they're going to solve the problem of, "Okay, why am I going

00:49:29   to put a case over my colored phone by just punching a whole bunch of holes in it?"

00:49:36   Which when I first saw that holes, my first reaction was, "Yeah, I guess that's one solution

00:49:41   to making the case color continue to matter, but I also wondered, like, are they doing

00:49:46   that for heat reasons or something?

00:49:48   Because it just seems like, I mean, it doesn't really make sense that they'd be doing it

00:49:51   for heat reasons over only half of the phone or something, but who the hell?

00:49:54   Otherwise they can't be doing it for heat reasons because there's going to be cases

00:49:57   without holes in them, so it's got to be able to deal with that anyway.

00:50:00   But it is definitely odd, and I love the fact in all of Apple's videos when they showed

00:50:04   this case with the holes in it, no FCC information and no iPhone text was on the back of the

00:50:10   phones.

00:50:11   That's real convenient for your ads, but the real phones have that text there and it looks awkward.

00:50:15   That's not true. One of the videos definitely had it because I backed it. I was watching,

00:50:19   I want to say it might have been the keynote, I was watching it on my TV and I thought to myself,

00:50:24   "Oh look, it doesn't have the H-O-N or whatever it is that shows through." And I actually backed it up,

00:50:29   got off my butt, walked up to the TV because my eyes are terrible, and sure enough, it was there.

00:50:34   And I'm pretty sure this was the keynote.

00:50:36   They had some videos with it without with the text not there very clearly super zoomed in which is a total cheat and not something

00:50:44   I would expect from Apple because they're supposed to design like they idealize things sure like if 3d renders or whatever the heck they're doing

00:50:51   Or you know completely a massage to look real, but it shouldn't be like a racing stuff

00:50:55   You you shouldn't erase the word iPhone because it actually is in the back of the phone

00:50:58   You shouldn't erase the FCC things because they actually are there

00:51:01   so that's a shame and that's strange and I

00:51:06   Don't like I haven't felt any of these things in my hand, but I'm kind of disappointed that it's not squishy

00:51:10   But on the other hand I found from you know from my TPU case which is very shiny and very very smooth

00:51:16   It's not textured like you know like silicone would be it's not fuzzy or anything like that

00:51:20   It's still supplies surprisingly grippy because you get a big contact patch

00:51:24   It's kind of like slicks on a race car you actually do get a big contact patch as long as that contact patch is not

00:51:29   wet

00:51:30   Like slicks in the rain which are bad

00:51:32   Then you actually do get some grippiness, but in terms of

00:51:35   Resting on the the curved arm of a sofa with that shiny back thing. That's not so great

00:51:41   So I'm kind of disappointing they didn't they didn't go with any kind of squishy back

00:51:44   But I kind of understand it as well because if I thought about it for more than a couple minutes

00:51:48   I said how can they make the back of the phone squishy? You would have to have a complete rigid sort of

00:51:53   Inner skeletal structure over which they stretch the squishy stuff and instead they didn't do that

00:51:59   they have the antenna, which is rigid, but it's only around the edge, and the whole back,

00:52:04   its rigidity comes from the fact that they're using the super hard plastic.

00:52:07   Yeah, and the case, to go back a step, the case, I cannot believe that Apple did that,

00:52:13   and if this were any other manufacturer that had done that, the internet would have blown

00:52:19   up ten times worse than it did about how stupid they are, they don't pay attention to detail,

00:52:24   this is ridiculous, this is why Apple's so much better than everyone else, and yet here

00:52:28   is Apple letting "Hun" show through? I just can't believe it.

00:52:32   No, it's French. It's N-O-N. The top of the age has chopped off.

00:52:35   It is the French people saying, "No, Apple, you can't do that."

00:52:41   Realistically speaking, though, it's a judgment call of saying, "Apple knows that no one except

00:52:48   for super nerds are not going to notice this, but all the super nerds rightfully flipped out about

00:52:53   it and will continue to flip out about it." And I don't think the super nerds would buy that case

00:52:56   because I even ignore for now the terrible cutting off of the words. I think it's just

00:53:01   ugly anyway with the little circles over half of the surface.

00:53:03   Yeah, I was going to say, do you think anybody—do you think even one person who is currently

00:53:08   complaining about the Han/Nan, do you think even one of them was actually planning on

00:53:13   buying one of these? Right. Like, if that wasn't there, like,

00:53:15   "Well, I would buy that ugly case if it wasn't for how it cut off the letters." But I don't—

00:53:19   You won't even be buying the 5C. Yeah. Well, I don't know. Like, the 5C,

00:53:23   I've seen people who have held it to say it feels impressive, and if you like the color…

00:53:29   A lot of people, especially people who customize their phone, you can make an interesting phone,

00:53:34   like the yellow one.

00:53:35   But the great thing about the 5C is they all have black faces, right?

00:53:39   I think that's…

00:53:40   I'm pretty sure they all have black faces, so it's an interesting combination of you

00:53:45   can have a black and yellow phone if you're a Georgia Tech fan or something.

00:53:49   I only know those colors because my wife went there.

00:53:50   But whatever your school colors are.

00:53:52   And the cases with the holes in them, though I find it ugly, the color combinations do

00:53:57   give you a lot of options to sort of accessorize.

00:53:59   And I think Apple is sort of giving the people what they want.

00:54:02   They want, you know, sometimes they want cases with rhinestones on them, and they can still

00:54:06   get that, you know, in the aftermarket.

00:54:08   But Apple is giving many more options than just black and white, and I think it's going

00:54:12   to be a net win for them, except for the lint collection thing, because I think even normal

00:54:16   people will notice after a while the amount of lint that's going to collect in those little

00:54:20   circles.

00:54:21   I can confirm yes, they are indeed all black faceplates in the 5C, which is weird because they offer a white back color

00:54:27   But I like that one. I like the white back plate with with the black front. I think that's a cool combination

00:54:32   Mmm. I'm thinking this this is the first time that I've been tempted to get the white phone not the 5C, but the 5s

00:54:40   With the cause of iOS 7 no no the other the real

00:54:44   The white one's still there

00:54:47   Yeah, the silver back white yeah, yeah

00:54:49   Yeah, this has been the first time I've attempted to get that because...

00:54:52   Wait, are we talking about gorillas?

00:54:54   I'm just going to cut that out and pretend like you didn't see it.

00:54:56   [laughter]

00:54:58   You know, because iOS 7 is so white and light, and like I'm finding, as I'm designing my own app,

00:55:05   and as I'm seeing what Apple has done with their apps, the default before was everything was just dark.

00:55:11   Black, you know, textured, like it was like you were sitting like, you know, in a bar.

00:55:16   everything's black and leather and everything like that. Well, weird bar. I'll stop there.

00:55:23   But it's, you know, imagine, by the way, John, in this picture on the 5C site, the top of

00:55:31   the N is clearly not fully cut off and it looks like Han. Anyway, you know, iOS 7, I

00:55:39   think white is in style now. It's, before it was, you know, people would joke that it

00:55:45   it was like, you know, for women or something else,

00:55:48   probably horribly insensitive.

00:55:50   But it's just the style now.

00:55:52   Most of the iPods ever sold, or the original ones at least,

00:55:56   those were all white.

00:55:58   You know, I think there are eras where

00:56:01   this is going to be in fashion, and this is one of them.

00:56:03   And having everything be white, like, my whole app design

00:56:07   is white-based, because iOS 7 is white-based,

00:56:10   and it looks really good.

00:56:11   Like, it's kind of refreshing.

00:56:12   It makes it look newer.

00:56:13   It makes it look nice and modern.

00:56:15   and to put all that on a phone with a black face plate,

00:56:18   I think kind of weakens it,

00:56:20   or doesn't take advantage of the new style.

00:56:24   - I think you'll have to see it in action to make that,

00:56:28   I mean, you're seeing it in action, but I haven't yet,

00:56:30   because I fully plan to put a black background,

00:56:32   as I always have on all my iOS devices, on iOS 7.

00:56:35   - You know, I did that.

00:56:35   I did that for my first few,

00:56:37   probably my first month using it.

00:56:39   I had a solid black background,

00:56:40   and I turned off the parallax and everything,

00:56:42   just solid black background.

00:56:43   I did that, but it was OK, and it worked for a while.

00:56:47   But then when I was picking colors and an icon for my app,

00:56:52   I decided, let me put the phone in a more stock configuration

00:56:55   so I could see how most people are likely to see

00:56:58   the app on the home screen.

00:57:00   And so I switched over to-- there's

00:57:04   a stone graphite-looking wallpaper.

00:57:06   It's like a stone texture.

00:57:09   There was that, and I was like, you know,

00:57:12   I'll live with it light for a while.

00:57:13   Now I like it light.

00:57:14   Now I feel like going back to all black would be kind of retro in a bad way.

00:57:20   Just like kind of going backwards in time, like going back and using a Sega Saturn.

00:57:25   You know, I have never wanted a white iPhone.

00:57:27   I do not understand the appeal, but if that's what makes you happy, then feel free.

00:57:32   And I should add, the last time I said I just didn't understand the appeal of something,

00:57:37   it was a BMW, and we all saw how that ended up.

00:57:40   Don't forget Apple products before that.

00:57:42   Apple products before that. So yeah, I'm sure I'm doomed to drive a 911 with my white iPhone

00:57:48   sometime in the future. But regardless, I don't know, I never understood the white iPhone thing

00:57:53   personally. John, if you had an iPhone, what would you have? I don't know. I've always liked how the

00:58:02   white ones look as devices, especially being an old school Apple guy. I really love the people who

00:58:08   found a tiny rainbow-colored Apple sticker and stuck it on the back of their white iPhone,

00:58:12   because back in the days of the Snow White design language of the Mac SE30, my favorite

00:58:18   old Mac, and the 2ci and all those things, where there was Apple Platinum with slats

00:58:22   in it and everything, if you had envisioned a futuristic Apple phone, it would be platinum

00:58:29   or white and have a rainbow-colored Apple logo on it.

00:58:31   So I think those things look great, except for, as I mentioned in the past show, the

00:58:35   fact that, okay, it's not a piece of art, it's actually a device with a screen that

00:58:38   have to use and the white on that screen is never going to be, or not never, but

00:58:41   certainly with current LCD technologies is not as white as actual real live

00:58:46   white reflective surface that's next to it. So in any kind of bright light I think

00:58:52   a white iOS device makes the screen look worse and that's why I always go for

00:58:56   black faceplate. Like that's why I think the 5C is so great because they all

00:59:00   have black faceplates even the one with the white background so you can get and

00:59:03   really the 5C colors do not appeal to me except for maybe the yellow if I was

00:59:07   really into something yellow like a sports team or something. But the white one is the

00:59:13   only one that could be considered neutral, but it still has a black face, so thumbs up.

00:59:17   So fashion-wise, although I do like most of the white devices and I do like the silver

00:59:22   back on that thing, pragmatically I think I'd still prefer a black face to make the

00:59:27   screen look better in more conditions.

00:59:28   I will say too, I have a white iPad mini because after buying the iPhone 5 in its very dark

00:59:34   black color last year, I learned after having it and getting it that the black isn't that

00:59:41   good. It's too dark. I've said that before on this show. I'm not going to go into it

00:59:45   again. But the iPhone 5's black was just too dark, and I don't think it looks good.

00:59:50   And so when the iPad mini took the exact same design options, basically, I said, "No way

00:59:55   I'm getting that again. I'll get the white." And I like it. It looks really nice. I got

00:59:59   the little red crappy Apple cover with it, and it looks really good. It's a nice pairing.

01:00:03   And I think certainly on future iPads I'll do that.

01:00:06   The issue you raised, John,

01:00:07   I have it out here with me right now.

01:00:09   The issue you raise about the white of the faceplate

01:00:12   not matching the color or the brightness

01:00:16   of the white on the screen, that's a very real issue.

01:00:19   Right now I'm sitting in a room painted red at night

01:00:22   lit by a warm temperature LED bulb.

01:00:24   So the light in the room is very yellowish.

01:00:26   And the faceplate very clearly looks yellowish,

01:00:30   like a warm tint.

01:00:31   and the screen of course is relatively neutral and so the screen is a very

01:00:35   like you know bright cool

01:00:37   more you know closer to five thousand k

01:00:38   kinda white

01:00:40   so there is that imbalance right now but it doesn't look bad

01:00:43   doesn't look great if you like look at it and pay attention to it most of the time you don't pay

01:00:46   attention to it. I was thinking more in terms of brightness where as you get it

01:00:49   like at night time sure it looks fine because then the white face becomes basically a black face

01:00:52   because the source of light is the screen but out in bright sunlight yeah they all look crappy

01:00:56   out in black sunlight but white ones, bright sunlight but white ones look crappier because it

01:00:59   makes it look like

01:01:00   boy, can't the screen-- the screen really can't keep up.

01:01:03   Like, you don't realize how dim current LCDs are until you

01:01:05   actually bring them out to direct sunlight, which

01:01:07   is why people love reflective screens like the Kindle,

01:01:09   right?

01:01:09   Once you get out into sunlight, that backlight

01:01:11   is just totally overpowered.

01:01:12   And you thought, boy, this thing was so bright,

01:01:14   it was blinding me when I was inside my house

01:01:16   or laying in my bed or whatever at night.

01:01:18   But once you go out into bright sunlight,

01:01:19   it is totally overpowered.

01:01:21   And that type of underpowered backlight

01:01:24   in the face of bright light of any kind, indoors or outdoors,

01:01:28   really benefits from being next to black.

01:01:31   It needs all the help it can get,

01:01:32   because colors look bright, you know,

01:01:33   white will look brighter when it's next to a dark color.

01:01:35   So it's an optical illusion, saying like,

01:01:37   "I will make my screen look brighter to you

01:01:39   "because it's next to a black thing."

01:01:41   When you put it next to a white thing,

01:01:42   it's the worst possible condition.

01:01:44   It's highlighting all the weaknesses of the screen.

01:01:47   - Yeah, I mean, I agree that it's a real issue,

01:01:49   but I disagree how much it's actually noticeable

01:01:51   in practice.

01:01:52   - Well, you're not John Siracusa.

01:01:53   - That's true. (laughs)

01:01:54   - It also depends on when you use your thing most.

01:01:56   If you use it mostly indoors or use it mostly in dim conditions, then it doesn't matter.

01:02:00   It doesn't bother a lot of people.

01:02:02   For me, it bothers me because I feel like it's just—it also distracts me visually.

01:02:07   My eyes would be drawn more to the outer—I just want a black frame.

01:02:10   It's like getting a TV.

01:02:11   I want a black frame around my TV as well.

01:02:14   You don't want a white or a shiny frame or anything that's going to draw your eye around

01:02:17   the TV because the screen is supposed to be the star, not the other thing.

01:02:21   The only way I would go with the white face is when we finally get the screen technology.

01:02:23   There really is like they could they could match it so that the white is exactly the same some sort of combination of reflective emissive screen

01:02:30   In some distant future that really does look the same then fine get the whole thing white

01:02:34   All right anything else on hardware, I'd like to talk about the actual presentation the keynote briefly, but anything else on the hardware nope

01:02:43   All right, so I I feel like Tim did not do a particularly good job

01:02:49   He stumbled a lot and seemed really nervous, which is weird because usually he's extremely not nervous

01:02:56   And he's very deliberate which is something. I wish I was a little better with

01:03:00   He'll oftentimes lead leave long pauses if he's thinking something through or perhaps trying to remember the next line

01:03:06   I don't know how scripted these things are and

01:03:08   He's always very deliberate and I felt like this time he didn't feel that way he felt

01:03:15   like it seemed as though he felt like he was out of his element and

01:03:19   Conversely, Craig Federighi, who we've said for a while now has actually turned into one

01:03:22   heck of a great presenter.

01:03:25   As he did in the WWDC this year, he absolutely killed it again.

01:03:30   And I was very confused by Tim's apparent confusion.

01:03:34   I don't know.

01:03:35   Did you guys notice that as well?

01:03:36   Am I the only one?

01:03:37   Well, I mean, he did call it a—did he call Keynote a spreadsheet or Pages a spreadsheet?

01:03:42   Did he call something a spreadsheet?

01:03:43   Yeah, yeah.

01:03:44   Well, who cares?

01:03:45   I mean, Schiller called FireWire ports Thunderbolt or vice versa.

01:03:47   Yeah, I know.

01:03:48   That's the—people misspeak. We of all people know better than anyone. The vibe I got from him

01:03:54   was that he seemed giddy and happy, that he was excited that these products were going to be

01:04:00   released. Did that affect his performance? Maybe he was—he didn't care. He was just happy. "Boy,

01:04:06   I can't wait till these things get—" He seemed very smiley to me. He was really happy about these

01:04:11   products, really happy that they're going to be out there. He wasn't the serious, deliberate Tim

01:04:17   Cook that we'd seen before explaining like, you know, how only Apple could do this and

01:04:23   what Apple's philosophy is or whatever, but I think that was okay.

01:04:26   Like, you know, he's more of an emcee in these things anyway, and, you know, Schiller was

01:04:30   Schiller and Federighi did his thing perfectly well.

01:04:34   So I don't mind his stumbling and missteps or whatever because I think it was not—I

01:04:41   didn't get the nervous vibe from him.

01:04:42   I didn't get the "I'm really nervous because I'm worried about what we're going to announce."

01:04:47   I got the I'm excited about these products and maybe I'll trip over myself in the excitement.

01:04:51   And what'd you think Marco? Well, honestly, I skipped most of Tim's sections when I was watching the video.

01:04:57   Well, just because Tim doesn't really say a lot that's like new or interesting, especially the beginning half.

01:05:03   I skipped over that entire thing.

01:05:04   I just went right to the right to the part of his introduction because I was watching the live blogs, you know,

01:05:07   I knew roughly what he said and what he was talking about and that was all I really needed from this event.

01:05:11   But, uh,

01:05:13   so I can't really comment on that except that I

01:05:16   I always, like, when you're watching the keynote videos on your computer, if you open it up in QuickTime,

01:05:22   you can actually, you get like a 2x control, you get like a little speed control that you can adjust.

01:05:27   And I always put Tim on like 2 or 3x because he just speaks so slowly, I have to get through it in a reasonable amount of time.

01:05:34   So I really can't judge for sure in this case because I skipped most of what he said,

01:05:41   and the parts I didn't skip I played very quickly because I was bored.

01:05:45   Usually, I liked Tim a little bit more.

01:05:49   I just think in this keynote, there

01:05:51   wasn't a whole lot for him to say

01:05:53   that was very interesting.

01:05:55   Like, I don't think it's necessarily his fault.

01:05:57   I just think there wasn't a whole lot for him to say--

01:06:00   that there wasn't a whole lot for any of them to say, really.

01:06:03   Here's some new iPhones.

01:06:04   They're really good in some ways and really unsurprising

01:06:07   and boring in others.

01:06:08   And it's almost all exactly what you all expect.

01:06:11   You've all already seen these things on rumor sites.

01:06:14   here you go." There wasn't a whole lot of room in this event to really get that

01:06:20   interesting by the presenters. They didn't drag it out. It was a pretty

01:06:25   tidy presentation. It was pretty much right on the hour. I think it was fine. There was no

01:06:31   showmanship required for this. They weren't revealing iOS 7 for the first time. There's

01:06:35   a time and a place for that type of thing, and this was just more of let it go out the door.

01:06:41   Steve Jobs would have been flipping out about how much was known about these things ahead

01:06:46   of time, but it seems like the current crew was like, "Yeah, supply chain's going to

01:06:50   leak.

01:06:51   It's going to happen.

01:06:52   What can we do?"

01:06:53   I can't tell if people are still seething back there or if it was all Jobs' secrecy

01:06:58   personality that, you know…

01:07:00   Tim said, "Oh, we're doubling down on secrecy," and people make fun of that.

01:07:05   It was like, "Well, good job," because we knew everything about these phones, basically.

01:07:08   But I'm assuming what he meant was whatever new product category thing that they release,

01:07:14   I'm assuming we won't have complete video of people playing with that ahead of time.

01:07:19   And in fact, we don't even know what they're doing.

01:07:20   Are they making a TV set or are they not?

01:07:22   Are they making a watch?

01:07:23   Are they making a nose ring?

01:07:24   We don't know.

01:07:25   That type of secrecy, so far, assuming any of those things have any reality behind them,

01:07:32   so far Apple really has doubled down on secrecy because we have no idea what they're doing

01:07:35   in TV that we haven't already seen. And we have no idea if they're making a watch.

01:07:38   It's just a bunch of rumors. Now, as we get closer, we'll see if it really holds.

01:07:42   But I'm not ready to say that his doubling down secrecy thing was a total failure because

01:07:47   I think that Apple could still potentially have secrets that it's kept 100 percent.

01:07:53   Nothing from those things. We just have speculation and rumors. We have no blurry pictures. We

01:07:58   have no videos of people playing with cases or anything like that.

01:08:03   And yeah, we don't even know what they're doing.

01:08:04   You're right.

01:08:05   It's like even when the iPad was about to come out, everyone had pretty good, you know,

01:08:10   pretty good rumors saying Apple is doing a tablet specifically.

01:08:13   Like it is a tablet, it will run iOS, and it will come out roughly around this time.

01:08:18   And those are all that ended up being correct.

01:08:21   You know, to have, if they are indeed very close to launching a new category, which we

01:08:27   don't really know, but if they're really close to launching a new product category, yeah,

01:08:31   you're right.

01:08:32   keeping it secret. And there's also a massive number of important product details that we

01:08:39   know are coming soon. Like, one of the biggest is whether the iPad mini will have a retina

01:08:43   version this fall. That's a major product detail, and we don't know the answer to that

01:08:47   yet. Everyone's all over the place with the predictions and the rumors and the BS analyst

01:08:51   and all these things. So there's that, there's whether there's going to be retina displays,

01:08:55   retina iMacs, what the heck's happening to the MacBook Pro line, when those are going

01:08:59   to be updated and what they will have in them, like the Mac Pro release, when it's actually

01:09:03   going to happen, what will cost.

01:09:04   Well, the Mac Pro itself, they totally kept that one under wraps.

01:09:07   Right.

01:09:08   We didn't even know if they were going to discontinue the computer line.

01:09:11   Nobody had spy shots of a black garbage can.

01:09:13   Exactly.

01:09:14   So that's why I feel like the phone is always an exception, and the iPad a little bit.

01:09:19   It's an exception because they just have to make so many of these things.

01:09:23   And for them to say, "You can buy this next week," they had to have been producing them

01:09:29   for a while already, and they had to have been testing and producing parts for a while

01:09:33   before that. And they're making these things in such ridiculous quantities. So many suppliers

01:09:40   are involved. That's why the phones always leak, and a little bit of the iPads too. That's

01:09:44   why they always leak in advance now, because they're just making so many of them. Too many

01:09:48   people are involved and they can't control them all. The other products, the Macs in

01:09:52   particular, just don't sell anywhere near those kind of volumes, and so it's easier

01:09:56   for them to keep those things secret. And certainly a new product category probably

01:10:01   falls under that same protection.

01:10:05   Well depending on what it is, I suppose, if it's something that's as universally desired

01:10:09   as an iPhone, then they're going to need to make a gazillion of those too. Although I

01:10:13   guess it's a harder thing to bet on before you've even announced it to anyone.

01:10:17   Right, and maybe the very first version won't be that successful. I mean the very first

01:10:20   iPad was not a massive blockbuster hit. It sold more than anyone thought, but it didn't

01:10:25   sell as much as the iPhone still doesn't.

01:10:27   Yeah, the iPhone is the best example.

01:10:30   The very first version of the iPhone was not selling that many.

01:10:34   It was a slow ramp up.

01:10:35   So whatever thing they come out with, this watch or television, they'll have time to

01:10:39   ramp up manufacturing.

01:10:41   As someone in the chat room said, the easy way to do it is what they did with the iPhone,

01:10:44   which is secrecy behind the iPhone.

01:10:47   No one had any idea what it was going to look like, but we all know they were making a phone.

01:10:51   Just announce it six months before it ships, like they did with the Mac Pro, like they

01:10:54   did with the iPhone.

01:10:55   six months or whatever it was, because then you haven't started ramping manufacturing

01:10:59   yet and there aren't a million of these things shipping around the world and you have a big

01:11:02   lead dime.

01:11:03   They did it with the iPhone because the FCC, clearing the FCC in the US would require pictures

01:11:10   of the device and everything like that, so it was going to be spoiled anyway, so they

01:11:12   had to pre-announce it, which is fine.

01:11:14   And the Mac Pro, they pre-announced it because they'd already made it wait God knows how

01:11:17   long and we were going to flip out.

01:11:19   And so they were like, "All right, here you go.

01:11:21   We're actually making one.

01:11:22   You can't have it now, but don't worry.

01:11:24   it's not dead, and they needed to do that messaging-wise.

01:11:27   And for new category product, if there's some sort of FCC stuff, maybe they have to pre-announce

01:11:32   that too, but I don't know if there is going to.

01:11:35   I don't know what the requirements are for fitness trackery things that you wear or for

01:11:40   television sets.

01:11:41   I don't think either one of those things is probably going to have its own LTE, 3G, whatever

01:11:47   connection, so they're probably okay.

01:11:50   All right, you want to wrap it up?

01:11:53   Yeah, that's fine, unless you wanted to do some late follow-up, which we can always

01:11:57   say for the next show.

01:11:58   Follow-up comes at the front of the show, Casey.

01:12:00   Well, that's why it was late follow-up, John.

01:12:02   Late.

01:12:03   You can't just put a modifier in a word and change it.

01:12:06   That works.

01:12:07   Yes, we should end the show.

01:12:09   All right.

01:12:11   Thanks a lot to our two sponsors this week, MailRoute and Squarespace, and we'll see

01:12:14   you next week.

01:12:16   Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin

01:12:22   'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:12:28   John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:12:33   'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:12:38   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:12:43   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

01:12:52   So that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:12:57   E-N-T, Marco Arment, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A, Syracuse

01:13:04   It's accidental (it's accidental)

01:13:07   They didn't mean to, accidental (accidental)

01:13:12   Tech Podcast, so long

01:13:17   We have the more important issue in the tail end here.

01:13:21   Mark, do you see the two links I put in the Skype chat?

01:13:24   Let's see.

01:13:25   Are we talking about the Han versus Nan?

01:13:28   Yes.

01:13:29   See, there's enough of that H shaft, I guess.

01:13:33   There's enough of that.

01:13:34   I don't know.

01:13:35   What's the typographical term?

01:13:38   The yellow and green one shows more of the stem of the H than there is a stem on the

01:13:44   N.

01:13:45   one shows pretty much equal amounts of stem above the H and the N. And as we know, this

01:13:51   case is not like a precision aligned. Like that amount of motion can clearly be, you

01:13:56   know, from just shifting the case around a little bit. So I still say N-O-N because the

01:14:01   amount of extra stem that you're going to get above the N is so minuscule and may actually

01:14:06   be non-existent. So N-O-N is my take and the white one supports my theory. They're super

01:14:11   super zoomed in, probably artificially rendered yellow and green one does show a tiny bit

01:14:17   more stem on that H.

01:14:18   Yeah, I don't know.

01:14:21   I think...

01:14:22   Take out Photoshop and draw a horizontal line across the N-O-N and the white one, you'll

01:14:25   see.

01:14:26   I would say the white one is a shadow.

01:14:27   Like, it's shadow covering that part and then on the...

01:14:30   We'll see.

01:14:31   Well, now you have to buy one with that case.

01:14:34   There's no way I'm buying that.

01:14:36   It's silicone, so it stretches, so you can just move your thumb and say, "See?

01:14:39   Now it's covering it."

01:14:40   Now it's coming.

01:14:41   [LAUGHTER]

01:14:42   That's gracious.

01:14:43   By the way, real-time follow-up, Marco, I think you're thinking of a sender, apparently.

01:14:47   Yes.

01:14:48   Okay.

01:14:49   I know de-senders are the things that break the baseline, but yeah.

01:14:54   All right.

01:14:55   Anyway, Shaft is better.

01:14:56   You want to talk about this USB 3.0 micro-connector?

01:14:59   I actually have one of these things.

01:15:02   Yeah, I have one too.

01:15:03   It's on my bus-powered one-terabyte drive.

01:15:05   Yeah, I have a card reader that uses—

01:15:07   Yeah, why is this a thing right now?

01:15:09   We've known about this.

01:15:10   I guess people who don't either buy a lot of accessories or don't keep up with the umpteen

01:15:15   different USB connectors think this is a new thing.

01:15:18   The story was this will be coming to your Android phone, which may or may not be true

01:15:22   and whatever, and maybe it's more embarrassing because it's such a relatively large connector

01:15:27   for a phone.

01:15:29   But it's got one thing over regular, you know, the regular whatever it is, type B, I think,

01:15:35   the flat rectangular one, is that at least it's externally asymmetrical.

01:15:38   At least we can give it that.

01:15:41   But I mean, for mine, because it's on a card reader, I actually use it frequently.

01:15:46   And it is really hard to insert or remove that cable.

01:15:48   And I don't know if it's just mine, and maybe the socket on my card reader isn't

01:15:52   that well made, but it's really kind of a b*tch to plug that in.

01:15:57   And I always think I'm breaking it.

01:16:00   It's that bad.

01:16:01   Yeah, these are no Lightning connectors.

01:16:03   Lightning connector is genius both because it can be plugged in either way and there's

01:16:06   and also because it inverts the normal relationship of connectors, which is a bent piece of metal like into like a not a tube

01:16:13   But like you know hollow cylinder and then change the shape of that so it's got this

01:16:17   Flimsy metal wall surrounding this internal thing where the pins are where it lightning says no, we're going to make a solid metal

01:16:23   Flange and put our contacts on top of it and anything with the flimsy metal wall

01:16:29   Especially as you shrink it down it just becomes ridiculous because lots of micro USB connectors are externally asymmetrical

01:16:34   But just barely like you have to squint at it to get the little trapezoid on your you know some of them are just

01:16:39   microscopic like the one

01:16:41   My new camera has whatever the super teeny tiny USB thing is and it's trapezoid shaped

01:16:46   but you you can't barely feel it with your fingers and you have to really squint to see it and you have to make sure

01:16:52   you put it in the right way, and then you're shoving a

01:16:54   Little you know ring of metal into another ring of flimsy metal

01:16:59   It's much more satisfying to stick the solid metal

01:17:02   lightning connector to something. So Apple's connector is way better here.

01:17:05   Yeah, I agree that the USB micro connector is, even the 2.0 one is awful. I mean, it's

01:17:13   every time, because it's on almost every camera these days, and it's on every Kindle, it's

01:17:16   on a lot of devices now. And yeah, I always have to look very carefully to see what direction

01:17:22   it goes in, and I get it wrong half the time. It's almost, or even more, I would say it's

01:17:26   almost as hard to plug in as a VGA cable.

01:17:31   Like those, I always got VGA cables backwards.

01:17:34   Even I would look, and then I would not quite see it right

01:17:37   and still try to plug it in backwards.

01:17:39   - Oh, VGA never bothered me, but DVI to this day,

01:17:41   I always get backwards every single time.

01:17:43   - Yeah, DVI, you gotta look for the cross.

01:17:45   Or, well, if it's not an iCable,

01:17:46   then you have like the dash, but even then,

01:17:49   I still mess that up too.

01:17:50   Although nothing, I mean, USB, regular USB-A cables,

01:17:54   those mess me up, because they're ridiculous too.

01:17:56   I've said on past shows, if it's your job to design a connector, there are very few axes on

01:18:03   which you can excel. You would think, "I want to be a good connector designer." What do you even

01:18:08   have to think about except these exact very issues? There's not an entire world of possibilities.

01:18:12   There's reliability, there's fulfilling the spec, and there's, "I've got to plug it in and unplug

01:18:18   it all the time." Don't make that a pain in the butt. That's what your job is. You're a

01:18:22   connector designer. I don't know how these people sleep at night. Like, I sure did a

01:18:28   good job designing that connector, didn't I? How? How are you measuring yourself? How

01:18:32   are you deciding that you did a good job? I hope they suffer their entire lives just

01:18:36   getting their connections wrong and fumbling with their cameras and not being able to...

01:18:40   Like, then they must say, "Boy, I suck at my job."

01:18:43   I'm sure that's what they're all going through. Keep in mind, Apple has two massive luxuries

01:18:48   that most connector designers don't, which, well, I don't know how big this field is,

01:18:54   but they have two huge luxuries. They don't have to worry that much about cost, and they

01:18:59   can completely break backwards compatibility. And a third, I guess, is that they're kind

01:19:05   of a dictatorship in that they don't have to work on some committee and please 16 different

01:19:11   companies who are all trying to make the same connectors as you for the next 10 years and

01:19:16   do all that stuff. They can just say, they can just decree, "This is what's best.

01:19:21   We're going to do it. We don't care what you think, and we don't care what it costs you."

01:19:25   And that's it. Yeah, cost has to be the biggest one, but I still think at this point,

01:19:30   you should still throw in the criteria of, "Oh, and by the way, it should be impossible to put

01:19:36   in the wrong way and very clear which way it's supposed to go." And your job is to make that,

01:19:42   also make it cheap. Like, yes, make it reliable, make it a good connector to use, and also make it

01:19:47   cheap. And I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility. Granted, maybe you can't make

01:19:50   something as beautiful and precious as the Lightning connector, but surely we can do better

01:19:55   than these crazy USB things. Like, you know, even if you just, like the cost thing is like,

01:20:01   "Oh, we can't have it be reversible because that makes it so much more expensive for the devices,

01:20:07   because now they have to handle it being both ways." I think we can overcome that. I think the

01:20:11   The universe of ethernet cables being able to detect whether it's a crossover cable or

01:20:14   not, like we crossed that hurdle.

01:20:16   Now we don't have to deal with cross…

01:20:18   Even the super cheap crappy PCs have that.

01:20:20   So it's possible.

01:20:21   It can be done.

01:20:22   It just takes just a little tiny bit of effort.

01:20:26   We can make USB connectors that are impossible to put in the wrong way without breaking the

01:20:31   bank.

01:20:32   Like they're being penny-wise pound foolish.

01:20:34   Oh, how's the review?

01:20:36   Any update?

01:20:37   I was so excited today through Twitter.

01:20:39   someone directed me to the dev forums, which gave me a solution to getting offline dictation

01:20:45   working.

01:20:46   You had to go there to get that working?

01:20:47   I didn't have to, I was directed there by a helpful person on Twitter.

01:20:52   You wouldn't think, "Okay, I've got DP7, but this feature doesn't work.

01:20:56   Let me search the dev forums, see if there's a way I can make it work."

01:20:59   And sure enough, there was.

01:21:03   I'm assuming it was a bad updater or something, but it just involved making a symlink to a

01:21:06   framework or something.

01:21:07   Because it's an XPC thing, and the XPC thing

01:21:09   couldn't find the thing that it was executing.

01:21:10   So you just make a SimLink, and then it works suddenly.

01:21:13   So I was happy to see that this is some sort of packaging

01:21:17   and installer problem and not a technical problem.

01:21:22   The code was there.

01:21:23   The code actually does work.

01:21:24   It's just that the operating system couldn't find it,

01:21:26   because it wasn't in the right place.

01:21:28   Fun.

01:21:29   So does it work?

01:21:30   It does.

01:21:31   And I used it, and I wrote up that little section,

01:21:32   which was like three paragraphs.

01:21:34   But it's like--

01:21:35   Nice.

01:21:36   Yeah.

01:21:37   So it's being edited?

01:21:38   It's done being edited?

01:21:39   They finished editing what they had,

01:21:41   but of course they haven't edited my three paragraphs

01:21:43   on dictation.

01:21:44   And we're still running tests, battery tests.

01:21:47   I would like to get tests on the GM and put those in the review

01:21:50   and not say, OK, well, on DP7.

01:21:52   Although I don't think things have

01:21:54   been varying that much between these builds,

01:21:56   so if we can't get the GM version,

01:21:59   it won't be the end of the world to run tests against.

01:22:01   I think the numbers that we get on whatever

01:22:03   the second-to-last build are, we're

01:22:05   probably going to be pretty accurate. But yeah, I would like a ship date and a GM. That's

01:22:10   what I would like. And not have it be like iOS 7, where it's eight days from now.

01:22:14   Well, it sounds like you're kind of ready for that, though. I mean, as much as you're

01:22:19   probably going to be. No, I've got to send these things to the

01:22:22   iBook store. I don't know what the turnaround time is.

01:22:24   Oh, yeah. Because I have to assume I'm going to be rejected

01:22:27   first. So there's a one turnaround time where you send it, and they reject it for some crazy

01:22:30   reason. And if you're lucky, the second time, it'll be the first time I'm sending any books

01:22:34   to the iBook store.

01:22:35   So I assume that I will be rejected the first time.

01:22:39   I should have looked at my notes during the thing,

01:22:41   because I wrote stuff in them.

01:22:43   I forgot to mention the storage shift.

01:22:45   Oh, the lack of a storage shift?

01:22:47   Yeah.

01:22:48   Come on, man.

01:22:49   But anyway, I just need-- storage shift.

01:22:51   Seriously, how much does an additional 16 gigs of flash

01:22:54   cost these days?

01:22:55   Not $100.

01:22:57   Well, that's their margins.

01:22:59   I know.

01:22:59   But even Apple shifts eventually.

01:23:02   eventually they stop shipping, you know, standard Macs coming with two gigs of RAM and they change

01:23:07   to four. Like that happens. It has to happen eventually. What is this going to be, 10 years

01:23:10   from now? It's like, well, it comes in 1632 and 64. No. I like it. I think we have to put this

01:23:17   rant in the show. No, I'll do a better one next week. I'll still be pissed about this. I don't

01:23:22   I don't know why isn't anyone else pissed about this.