29: Computerized Garden Gnome


00:00:00   he's a nice guy

00:00:01   like just he has a d*** voice. Well that's how me and you sound to other people

00:00:05   Marco. This gives you a glimpse of what it must look like for the people who hate

00:00:08   I was thinking it but I didn't say it. For the people who hate us this is exactly

00:00:12   how we sound to them. Well hold on.

00:00:14   Nobody hates you John. That is so not true. Look at my email there.

00:00:18   Believe me.

00:00:19   Well okay there's a difference between hates you and corrects you. You do realize that

00:00:22   right? No well.

00:00:25   So how's your review going John?

00:00:26   Well with the uncertainty about the release date, and you know, like it could be any day

00:00:33   now or whatever, I thought it was a, well, I brought it up to the R's guys and they agreed

00:00:37   that we should just start editing and copy editing this, even though it's not done done,

00:00:42   like we're still doing battery tests and getting results and still waiting for dictation to

00:00:48   work and still waiting for pricing information, but like what's there, we better start going

00:00:53   through it now. So it's uploaded and it's in the process of being edited and copy-edited

00:00:59   what there is of it, and we just gotta wait. I mean, you hope they're gonna give you a

00:01:04   nice long notice about when it's gonna be released, but they could just say, "And here

00:01:08   it is, and it's shipping now!" or, "God knows what they'll do with it." Obviously, their

00:01:14   plans don't factor in the quality of life of people writing reviews, because that's

00:01:19   really low on their list.

00:01:22   You can't make a call to one of your like birdies or something?

00:01:26   How many birdies? How many birdies?

00:01:28   Aww.

00:01:30   And besides, like, nobody knows this anyway.

00:01:32   Like, is it the type of thing that, like, the price and ship date are the type of things that you can change right up to the last minute?

00:01:38   Like, you don't need a big advance notice for any of these things. They can hold it, they can keep it, you know what I mean?

00:01:42   It's not... both of those things are known to such a small group of people.

00:01:46   It's not like even the name of the product, which has to be in marketing materials and everything like that.

00:01:50   I guess pricing isn't my in marketing tears a little bit, but there hardly are any marketing materials

00:01:54   It's gonna be on you know the App Store. So

00:01:56   Just waiting

00:01:59   Fun you don't you sound beaten but or not beaten. I should say you sound battered but not beaten

00:02:05   Yeah, it's not it's not this is a not a fun part like, you know rerunning tests going through screenshots to make sure things haven't changed

00:02:13   Retesting things. It's just it's no fun

00:02:18   You sound like a man who's on the edge of stopping

00:02:21   But I feel like every year you get to this point and then it ships and then you're fine. Well, I

00:02:26   Every year has something that's annoying about it and this year. I think the

00:02:30   The not knowing the ship date or the price and stuff like that

00:02:35   I don't have such terrible memory things these things so I can't tell you but it seems like and

00:02:40   Every other year previously we knew the ship date or the price

00:02:44   Well in advance of it happening and who knows maybe we will this year as well, but the fact that we don't by now is

00:02:50   Annoying me uncertainty is bad

00:02:53   Fair enough we have a lot to get through anything else on the review

00:02:58   Yeah, this is gonna be a tough show

00:03:00   I think because next week we're doing the show right after the iPhone of early the day after the iPhone event and

00:03:06   So I would imagine that next week. We're gonna have a pretty packed show full of iPhone stuff although

00:03:13   I don't know. Does it look that interesting? I think based on what we've seen so far,

00:03:19   I don't think there's going to be—if it's just the iPhone and not also iPad/Apple TV/anything

00:03:25   else—if it's just the iPhone, which I would probably say there's like a 50/50 chance

00:03:30   of, then I actually don't know if there's going to be any surprises.

00:03:34   Oh, we'll talk about the fingerprint scanner for half the show.

00:03:39   No, let's not talk about the fingerprint scanner for half the show.

00:03:43   Only because we don't have the time for it.

00:03:44   But I do think, to your point, that if there's anything interesting, I suspect that it will

00:03:48   be something like the fingerprint scanner.

00:03:50   It seems like there's a lot of smoke about the iPhone 5 Color, as I'm calling it, the

00:03:54   iPhone 5 Champagne.

00:03:56   And I think that those seem to be pretty much a lock.

00:04:00   I had thought earlier today on Twitter whether the Champagne iPhone would be just a China

00:04:06   thing or an Asia thing I should say or if it would go everywhere. At the time I

00:04:10   thought it would be just them now I'm thinking it would probably be everywhere

00:04:14   but that all seems to be pretty much a lock as far as far as I'm concerned. So

00:04:17   the only big surprise in my mind would be, well maybe not surprise but slightly

00:04:21   surprising thing would be a fingerprint scanner and there's some amount of smoke

00:04:25   there but not a lot. I don't know what do you guys think? Well I don't know I'm

00:04:28   thinking we're probably I mean the fingerprint scanner there was something

00:04:32   in the software, I believe, that tipped that off. There was some kind of reference to it

00:04:37   in the hardware stuff somewhere in iOS 7, beta something, I think.

00:04:41   But we've seen that before, haven't we? I can't cite an example, but I could swear

00:04:44   that we've seen stuff like that before.

00:04:46   But I think it kind of makes sense as something more interesting than a passcode lock and

00:04:53   faster. Whether it's more secure depends on a lot of things and is highly arguable,

00:04:59   but it's at least more convenient.

00:05:01   I don't use a passcode lock on my phone.

00:05:04   - I only do if I'm traveling and I feel susceptible

00:05:07   to my iPhone being lost.

00:05:10   Like at WWDC, I typically do,

00:05:11   not because I don't trust fellow conference goers,

00:05:14   but because there's a gazillion iPhones in a square mile

00:05:17   and it wouldn't surprise me

00:05:18   if somebody accidentally grabbed the wrong one.

00:05:19   - Right.

00:05:20   - But generally speaking,

00:05:21   I do not have a lock on mine either.

00:05:24   - I figure for security though,

00:05:25   this is always the argument with security.

00:05:29   Like if you're just gonna put your password

00:05:31   on a Post-it note and stick it to your monitor,

00:05:34   you're better off having lower password requirements

00:05:37   and just being able to remember it.

00:05:39   This is the kind of thing like,

00:05:40   I don't use a passcode lock because it would slow me down

00:05:43   too much when I have to unlock the phone.

00:05:45   If they do something with a fingerprint scanner

00:05:47   where it's really fast to unlock based on the fingerprint

00:05:50   on the home button, I might do that.

00:05:53   - Well, they could go one or two ways

00:05:54   on the fingerprint scanner.

00:05:56   They could do the, you guys don't remember this,

00:05:58   the Mac OS 9 had a voice password thing for its fake user accounts where you

00:06:05   would say something and then instead of typing your password you would say the

00:06:08   same thing and it would let you in and that one's the policy of that system

00:06:13   which was so impressive when you first used it you realize that it errors on

00:06:17   the side of letting you in so if anyone says anything remotely similar to what

00:06:21   you said in a similar voice they get let in so it's very comfortable and easy for

00:06:27   you to use, but the security is perhaps slightly better than nothing, but not much, right?

00:06:33   And the other way to go with it is to err on the side of not letting people in.

00:06:39   So the fingerprint scanner works like 50% or 40% of the time, but it never lets someone

00:06:44   else in except for your finger.

00:06:46   And based on the fingerprint technology thing, I don't think it can be all that reliable.

00:06:52   So they have to make one of those choices.

00:06:53   It's not going to work, I don't think, even 90% of the time.

00:06:56   So they have to decide, are we just going to say, OK, well,

00:06:59   90% of the time this gets you in without entering your passcode,

00:07:02   but 10% of the time you get to enter your passcode anyway.

00:07:04   And there's a little frustration factor.

00:07:05   They're like, why did I bother putting my finger on there?

00:07:07   Because this time it didn't work.

00:07:08   Let me just enter the passcode.

00:07:09   And then maybe people-- it doesn't take much for people

00:07:11   to say, if it doesn't work almost 100% of the time,

00:07:13   I'm just going to enter my passcode every single time

00:07:16   and not bother with a fingerprint thing.

00:07:18   And the other way to do it is for people

00:07:19   like Marco, who don't use a passcode, and just say,

00:07:23   well, if your finger's close and it looks kind of close,

00:07:25   it'll let you in. Maybe it will let someone else in sometimes, but you know, it's better

00:07:29   than nothing. So that's what I'm going to watch for if this thing has a fingerprint

00:07:32   scanner is which one of those two policies do they come in. I guess I, the third possibility

00:07:36   is that it's magic and it works 100% of the time and Apple doesn't have to make that choice

00:07:41   or close to 100% of the time. But for some reason I find that unlikely.

00:07:45   Well on top of that, if you think about it, my thumb, I have an average sized hand and

00:07:49   my thumb is considerably bigger than the home button. So what happens if I use like the

00:07:54   tip of my thumb in one moment to unlock the phone but then I use kind of the the

00:07:59   heel of my thumb the next time is there some sort of scanner that I have to like

00:08:03   some training process I have to go through in order to scan my entire thumb

00:08:08   print that just seems so not Apple like at all here's my thought process on the

00:08:12   on the fingerprint scanner Apple has yet to produce an iOS device with a home

00:08:17   button where the home button doesn't fail some percentage of the time that's

00:08:21   large enough for us to all have heard of or experienced a failed home button.

00:08:26   Wait, I don't think that's true. Have you never heard of or experienced a failed home button?

00:08:30   No, I have on previous models, but I think the 4 was really bad for that. But I think the 4S

00:08:38   might have improved it. Certainly the 5, I believe the 5 made it metal-backed.

00:08:42   They keep making it better. They're improving it. But I have heard of people with 5s with

00:08:46   failed home buttons. And not that I'm saying it's their fault and it's shoddy workmanship,

00:08:50   It's just that it's a button that you press all the time.

00:08:53   So it's good.

00:08:54   I don't know what the percentage is.

00:08:57   Maybe 99.5% of the home buttons are fine after the first year and 0.5% fail.

00:09:03   But that's a button that does nothing except be a button.

00:09:06   So to expect an equal or higher percentage out of a button that is a button and, by the

00:09:11   way, also some kind of fingerprint scanner, that's why I'm explaining why I'm ruling

00:09:15   out the idea that it will work reliably enough that Apple won't have to make those choices

00:09:19   of which way to go with it.

00:09:22   I tend to agree.

00:09:23   I mean, I think it's an interesting premise.

00:09:25   But like you, I'm very dubious as to how

00:09:28   they can execute well on it.

00:09:30   But just like Marco was saying earlier,

00:09:31   I don't use a passcode lock on my phone.

00:09:34   I find it to be annoying when I do use it at conferences

00:09:37   or whatever the case may be.

00:09:39   And the thought of a perfect thumbprint scanner

00:09:42   really does sound excellent to me.

00:09:45   But it also has some other weird annoyances that come with it.

00:09:47   Like for example, what if Erin's phone is in the kitchen, all the iPads and whatnots

00:09:53   are upstairs, we're sitting on the couch and she wants to look up something real quick.

00:09:58   If I hand her my phone, what does she do?

00:10:01   I mean, logically I would assume she would have to enter my passcode, which of course

00:10:04   I would have already shared with her, but like how does that work?

00:10:07   And that gets to be a little dicey.

00:10:09   And what is the fallback like you were saying earlier?

00:10:11   If my thumb doesn't unlock it, is it the passcode?

00:10:13   I don't know.

00:10:14   It just seems-

00:10:15   Well, the passcode will always work.

00:10:16   I'm assuming it will always be an option and will always work.

00:10:19   Well, right, I'm saying, like, would that be your fallback if you can't scan your thumb?

00:10:23   And it stands to reason it would be, but, I don't know, it just seems,

00:10:26   like you were saying before, it just seems like it would be annoying

00:10:29   if it doesn't work darn near all the time.

00:10:31   Yeah, that's, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if, you know, John,

00:10:37   you're exactly right, that it would just be, like, a quick shortcut to get out of the passcode entry screen.

00:10:43   It's like a quick alternative to entering the passcode, but it might even still show

00:10:48   the passcode screen.

00:10:49   Well, it has another important effect similar to Siri in that it's a gee whiz kind of

00:10:56   feature.

00:10:57   So even if someone bought an iPhone 4S or whatever when Siri came out and only used

00:11:02   Siri for the first two or three days to show people and play with, a lot of those people

00:11:07   I think got their value out of Siri.

00:11:10   They got a cool new phone that you could talk to, and they played with it and were entertained

00:11:14   by it, and eventually became bored of it because it doesn't work reliably enough and it doesn't

00:11:18   fit into their workflow.

00:11:19   But I think a lot of them are not bitter about that.

00:11:22   They still were left with a really nice phone, and they got that extra bit of enjoyment out

00:11:26   of it, and it was exciting and interesting and new.

00:11:29   The fingerprint scanner could fulfill that role for the iPhone 5S or whatever they end

00:11:34   up calling it.

00:11:35   Man, Siri's a mess.

00:11:37   every time, seriously, it's been out now for what, two full years?

00:11:42   It's just a beta, Marco. Come on.

00:11:47   Is it still?

00:11:49   I don't even know. I can't keep track.

00:11:50   Every time I try to use Siri, which isn't that often.

00:11:52   I used to use it a lot, but it just kept failing so often back when it first came out.

00:11:56   And not even just doing the wrong thing, but failing to be recognized and timing out and having server issues.

00:12:01   it was failing so often that I just slowly slowed down my use of it and then eventually stopped for a while.

00:12:06   And I've been trying it over the last couple of months, just maybe once a week, I'll try something.

00:12:12   And it fails about half the time.

00:12:14   And so I'm just like, it's so discouraging, but I can't believe after all this time it still has this problem.

00:12:22   Yeah, I mean, I use it sporadically. I think I would lump myself in that category of,

00:12:26   "Ooh, this is shiny and fancy when I first got my 4S."

00:12:29   And I used it more, but not a lot.

00:12:31   Now I find myself only using Siri to set timers,

00:12:35   so for like cooking or something like that.

00:12:37   Or if I'm trying to send a text message while driving,

00:12:40   I'll dictate it to Siri and hope that what I send,

00:12:45   Aaron or whomever, is remotely similar to the words

00:12:49   that came out of my mouth.

00:12:50   And I would agree that Siri, not only is it bad,

00:12:52   but I would say it's gotten worse lately,

00:12:54   'cause I actually had pretty good luck with Siri

00:12:56   up until the last month or two.

00:12:58   and I feel like it's a total crapshoot now.

00:13:02   - Yeah.

00:13:02   - That's right, all right, so what else will be new?

00:13:05   So are we saying yes to Champagne iPhone?

00:13:07   - Oh, I mean, I think, and by the way, not only Champagne,

00:13:10   there's also that new kind of lighter gray color

00:13:13   with the black glass.

00:13:15   You see that also?

00:13:16   - I did not, actually.

00:13:17   - There's four proposed colors,

00:13:19   and somebody had a video of all four of them lined up,

00:13:21   like all four of the shells lined up.

00:13:23   So it's the dark black and the white and silver

00:13:27   that we have now.

00:13:28   And then there is the champagne one,

00:13:30   which I'm sure everyone's probably seen

00:13:32   on Rumour Sites by now.

00:13:33   And then there's also like a lighter,

00:13:36   like a light black, if that makes sense.

00:13:39   - Interesting.

00:13:40   - And it's closer to raw aluminum color,

00:13:44   but it still has the black accents,

00:13:45   which could be nice, 'cause honestly,

00:13:47   the black one, I even said this last year

00:13:49   when the five was new,

00:13:51   the black I think is too dark.

00:13:53   You don't really get a lot of that

00:13:54   like nice metal quality from it,

00:13:57   it just looks like just one big black slab. It doesn't, like, the difference between the

00:14:01   black glass and the metal backing is not a big enough color difference. There's like

00:14:06   no contrast there. So I don't actually think the black looks like that. It also does not

00:14:09   age well because, especially along the chamfered edges, the black anodized coating flakes off

00:14:17   on those corners, on those edges, and so you see a lot of the underlying metal. So I think

00:14:22   for the next one I was even thinking about getting white, although my wife has prohibited

00:14:26   that in advance, but... She's right. Well, because she wants it, and she doesn't want

00:14:30   us to both be the same. But I'm thinking about that medium gray color is looking

00:14:36   pretty good, honestly, because I think it'll age better, and I think it'll

00:14:39   just look cooler. I think the black, the detail of the black just gets lost

00:14:44   because it's too dark. I wonder if people are going to have iPhone 5C

00:14:49   Envy, not just because of the colors, but maybe I'm the only one like

00:14:53   but you've all seen my iPod Touch and I've got that, what is it called, kind of plastic TPA, is it called?

00:15:00   TPU? TPU, I think. It's a kind of plastic that's like not squishy like rubber, but also not hard like regular plastic.

00:15:08   It's a little bit grippy, and that's what I like on my cases.

00:15:12   I want it to be like curved and comfortable, but a little bit grippy.

00:15:15   And I can't tell what the back of the 5C is made out of, like some kind of plastic.

00:15:19   But if it's made of TPU or something similar, I mean, I'm guessing it's not.

00:15:23   But like it looks more comfortable in my hand that I'm wondering if you're okay. I got the much faster

00:15:28   Fancier more expensive looking 5s or whatever

00:15:32   but holding a

00:15:34   5c is more comfortable. It feels more secure in my hand it feel it doesn't have sharp edges

00:15:39   It's more durable and resilient to nicks and scratches and stuff like that

00:15:43   But of course to be slower and you know, it'd be not as good a phone

00:15:49   And I wonder about that. I wonder if like anybody out there will come home with their 5s and feel a little twinge of

00:15:57   like

00:15:58   Disappointment that they didn't get to bring home the green curved comfortable one that they liked

00:16:03   Well the people in the know are all pretty much saying for certain that the 5c is literally just an iPhone 5s internals

00:16:11   Probably even the same camera if I had to guess

00:16:14   That's kind of their style when they they're gonna do something like this

00:16:17   So it's basically an iPhone 5, but rather than just pushing the iPhone 5 down, they're

00:16:24   supposedly getting rid of it and replacing the "old model" this year with this new addition

00:16:30   of the old internals, with this new casing around it.

00:16:34   So if that's the case, it's going to be a pretty good phone.

00:16:36   The iPhone 5 is still really good, even with iOS 7 stuff, it's still a very, very good

00:16:41   phone.

00:16:44   think about what they're actually selling, as far as I know, nobody's been able to break

00:16:48   it down. Maybe Horace Didiou found a way to figure out with margins and stuff, but what

00:16:53   the breakdown is between the different iPhone models that are sold at a time, like how many

00:16:58   sell relative to each other. From just looking at the public and what people buy, just anecdotally,

00:17:06   it's always seemed like the cheaper, like last year's or two years ago models of iPhones

00:17:11   have sold extremely well.

00:17:13   So what if the iPhone 5C-- since the iPhone 5 is still so good,

00:17:18   by most standards of phones today-- what if the 5C kind of

00:17:24   makes it official that the lower end model/last year's model is

00:17:30   like the default model?

00:17:32   Similar to what the iPad Mini did to the iPad,

00:17:35   what the iPod Mini and iPod Nano did to the iPod,

00:17:38   you know, you have the high-end super premium model, that's going to be the 5S this year.

00:17:43   And then, you know, then you have the one that most people buy. And previously, that was last

00:17:49   year's model. This time, maybe that's going to be the 5C. Yeah, that would be a change in iPhone

00:17:54   buying because up until this point, what Apple has told us is that the most popular model is always,

00:17:59   like, whatever the fanciest one is. Like, they won't give you breakdowns, but most of the time,

00:18:04   they will confirm that most people are buying iPhone 5s or something to that effect because

00:18:09   it's the best and they're still kind of selling a high-end thing.

00:18:12   And I would not be surprised at all if come some earnings call when someone tries to get

00:18:16   this information out of them, they say that most people are buying 5Cs or they sold more

00:18:20   5Cs than 5Ss.

00:18:22   But I think the 5C might be a better conceived physical product because they've gone through

00:18:29   all these iterations of the glass back and the external antenna and the 3G with the big

00:18:36   bubble plastic back and the original one with the plastic bottom.

00:18:39   They've gone around and around trying to find something that's a nice balance, something

00:18:42   that's a beautiful object, and I think the 4/4S form factor is the most attractive as

00:18:48   like a piece of sculpture.

00:18:50   And also one that's the most utilitarian and fun and comfortable to use to recognize

00:18:56   that most of the time you're holding this thing in your hands and chucking it into your purse or your pocket or whatever,

00:19:00   which one strikes the right balance? And maybe that's going to end up being the 5C.

00:19:03   I think it depends heavily on what kind of plastic that is and stuff.

00:19:06   But I don't think the 5 is nailed the sweet spot yet either, so

00:19:10   maybe you're right. Maybe the, you know, the 5 becomes the the iPad 4 of the phone line,

00:19:17   and this thing becomes the mini, and then it becomes the biggest sign.

00:19:21   I'm sure Apple would be perfectly happy with that because,

00:19:23   as far as they're concerned, they're selling you a cheaper version of last year's phone

00:19:29   and selling a ton of them.

00:19:30   Oh, yeah.

00:19:31   I mean, and I agree with you, by the way.

00:19:33   I think that the best feeling iPhone in my hand was the 3G/3GS because it had that nice

00:19:40   curve and it was plastic, so it felt very secure in the hand.

00:19:43   That was too big.

00:19:45   Well, you're an iPod Touch person.

00:19:47   Every iPhone is too big for you.

00:19:48   Well, I'm just saying, like, you know, that, like, you're trying to look for what is the

00:19:51   sweet spot between making something too thin and too… and like the 3G had, you know,

00:19:55   was very large and maybe like a little bit over large. And yeah, it felt comfortable,

00:19:58   but it didn't feel comfortable in the other aspects of using it. Like when you shove it

00:20:01   into your pocket, now it's like, "Hmm, maybe thinner would be better," you know?

00:20:06   Yeah. So really quickly, just to put the rumor mill to bed, if there is a 5C and let's

00:20:13   say that it's very, very cheap on contract, John Saracusa, will you finally get an iPhone?

00:20:19   No, because it won't be very cheap on contract.

00:20:22   Apple is not adding – Apple is not responsible for the price of an iPhone.

00:20:26   You know, the carriers are.

00:20:27   The price of the phone is so small compared to the cost of paying for a Verizon calling

00:20:32   and data plan for two years of life that the phone price – like Apple has so little control

00:20:37   over whether I buy an iPhone.

00:20:39   It's all up to the carriers.

00:20:40   Right, because you're the only person in the world who buys a phone in a subsidized

00:20:45   environment and actually does that computation.

00:20:47   I think some people do it too.

00:20:49   Maybe they just do it for their kids because their kids, you know, like some teenager wants

00:20:52   an iPhone.

00:20:53   They're like, "Do you know how much that costs?

00:20:54   Go get a job delivering pizzas and then you can pay for the data plan.

00:20:59   You can play."

00:21:00   So we'll see.

00:21:02   We'll eventually reach that point.

00:21:03   I'm waiting them out.

00:21:05   They're lowering their prices and my wife's got one so I get like the family plan price

00:21:09   now so if they suddenly lower the family plan price, I just re-upped my – re-upped whatever

00:21:14   marketing campaign made that term come into existence.

00:21:16   I don't know.

00:21:17   But apparently it has penetrated my consciousness.

00:21:19   Anyway, I just paid again for my stupid phone plan and I bought two years worth because

00:21:25   it was $150 for two years worth of service to this phone.

00:21:29   So think about it next time you get your $70 Verizon bill.

00:21:34   Now what if you could find a decent prepay data plan that supports the iPhone?

00:21:40   And to be honest, that may exist already and I have no idea, but would you do a prepay?

00:21:43   I don't think it does in the US.

00:21:45   Although our previous sponsor, Ting, they seem to imply, or maybe even state directly

00:21:51   on their website, that they expect to get the iPhone pretty soon.

00:21:54   Well, you know, people think I'm cheapskate and don't care about nice things by not having

00:21:59   an iPhone, but the fact is that I'm a prima donna and demand the very best things, and

00:22:04   if I can't have them, I just forego it entirely.

00:22:05   I don't want an iPhone unless I can get it on Verizon, partially because I live kind

00:22:09   of in a cell phone dead area.

00:22:12   And Verizon has the best coverage around where I am, and it also has the best coverage at

00:22:17   my house and also at my work.

00:22:19   So I'm not going until I can get the Verizon network.

00:22:23   That's the reason they get to charge so much money, because they know, "Look, we have

00:22:26   cell towers all over the place, and you don't."

00:22:29   So I'm basically a slave to Verizon because of the physical realities of where the cell

00:22:33   towers are where I live.

00:22:35   Is that really still true?

00:22:37   I'm the opposite with AT&T.

00:22:39   AT&T covers everywhere fairly mediocrely, if that's a word.

00:22:45   But Verizon covers everywhere okay, except my house, where there's no coverage.

00:22:51   So I still can't use Verizon.

00:22:52   I really haven't had bad experience with AT&T in the last year or two.

00:22:55   When I got the 3GS, which I got when it was brand new, that was pretty ugly.

00:23:00   As soon as you got off the beaten path, you were screwed.

00:23:03   And I got that on AT&T.

00:23:05   By the time I got the 4s things were pretty good for the most part now

00:23:10   It's very rare that I have a situation that I don't have pretty good if not excellent coverage now to be fair

00:23:16   I'm not often off what I would call the beaten path

00:23:19   But I mean I've traveled quite a bit over the last couple years

00:23:22   And I've never been in a situation that I can recall that

00:23:24   Somebody was standing near me with a ryzen phone without an issue and I had my AT&T phone

00:23:29   And it was a piece of crap and Marco has the same problem that I do you live too close to rich people

00:23:34   In Marco's case, I'm very close.

00:23:37   The problem near me is that Chestnut Hill…

00:23:38   Excuse me, I passed an M5 like a block from your house.

00:23:42   I know.

00:23:43   I live two near Richmond.

00:23:44   Chestnut Hill is the problem.

00:23:45   There's an area near us called Chestnut Hill that, so local tales go, has a lower

00:23:50   density of cell towers than elsewhere because no one wants a cell tower in their backyard

00:23:54   and they're all rich people.

00:23:55   And what it produces is like, you can see it when you go on the B line on the T, you

00:23:59   go past Chestnut Hill and there is no signal.

00:24:01   like, you know, for a brief period, but zero signal. And so that's bad. And I'm assuming

00:24:06   you have the same problem as if you get up into Batman, Bruce Wayne Manor territory.

00:24:10   Suddenly no one wants a cell tower near their house, and so the servers get spotty.

00:24:15   I actually don't have that problem. And in fact, our town hall has cell towers right

00:24:18   on it, and we can almost see it directly from our house. I just don't think there's a

00:24:21   Verizon tower there. But the problem we have is that the area around here is very hilly.

00:24:26   And as anybody who lives near hills or mountains can tell you, they are pretty much radio waves

00:24:31   worst enemies. So it's just very, very spotty coverage up here for most radio things. AT&T

00:24:40   happens to cover it well, possibly because there's antenna on top of our town hall.

00:24:43   Well, plus the—I can't think of the word I'm looking for—but the way in which GSM

00:24:50   and CDMA signals work is a little—isn't it a little better for landscapes on GSM,

00:24:57   but a little crummier for buildings or something like that? I'm reaching back to things I've

00:25:01   forgotten years ago. I think that's now obsolete. Well with LTE that doesn't matter as much

00:25:05   does it? Because it matters mostly the frequencies I believe. Anyway we really shouldn't be talking

00:25:10   about it. Seriously? We're going to get so much email because we don't know what we're

00:25:12   talking about. Nope. Unless John, unless you do. Because you actually not talk unless you

00:25:15   do. That's why I'm not talking. Alright, let's wrap up the iPhone topics because we're going

00:25:23   to be talking about this all next week. Is there anything else? I mean I don't have anything

00:25:27   else I just want to make sure you and John both had a chance before we talk about something

00:25:30   Unless you actually think there's gonna be something non-iPhone released.

00:25:34   I do not.

00:25:35   Well, here, I'll throw this out there. This is like,

00:25:38   fourth-hand from some random person that has no provenance anywhere, but someone mentioned

00:25:43   today, and I just remembered it, it was so out of the blue, "applications for Apple TV."

00:25:47   Yeah, I saw, there was, somebody mentioned, I don't know whether it was like, you know,

00:25:52   one of our blogger people that we're friends with, or MacRumors or something, somebody mentioned that

00:25:57   like the Apple TV SDK was apparently like almost done for everybody to see that they

00:26:03   heard and then they just got pushed or canceled or whatever. I don't know.

00:26:09   My thoughts on that was like, you know in the recent months there have been a whole

00:26:12   bunch of new icons that have appeared on your Apple TV?

00:26:15   Right, yeah, all the different channel partnerships.

00:26:17   Right, and so like when I look at those I'm like, okay, well is Apple writing all those

00:26:20   apps or is there some sort of proto SDK that Apple is shipping off to its various partners

00:26:24   like Disney and ESPN and stuff, and they're writing those apps.

00:26:28   And then maybe it's not too much of a stretch to say, "Look, instead of all these icons

00:26:31   just appearing on your Apple TV every time you do a software update, how about we make

00:26:35   some kind of crappy Apple TV store where you can choose which icons you want and then maybe

00:26:40   we'll hook them up to some kind of payment subscription thing and let people subscribe

00:26:44   to Netflix through the Apple TV and subscribe to Hulu and that type of thing, where it's

00:26:48   not quite the app store we're all thinking of, like, "Oh, now there's going to be angry

00:26:53   birds and stuff."

00:26:54   to control it with a little five-way controller and that stupid remote.

00:26:57   And it's not the new amazing Apple TV that we're all thinking of.

00:26:59   It's just kind of like regularizing the current ongoing system of adding icons to our home

00:27:05   screens and making us turn them off with parental controls because we can't control them any

00:27:09   other way.

00:27:10   So there's a couple thoughts there.

00:27:11   Firstly, earlier today, and I don't remember where I saw it, there was a report that somebody

00:27:15   had snooped delivery information or something.

00:27:18   I forget where exactly I saw this nor what specifically it said.

00:27:22   But they said something along the lines of Apple's been receiving shipments that were

00:27:25   labeled for the purposes of customs set top boxes.

00:27:28   Oh yeah, I saw that too.

00:27:30   And so they were starting, they were trying to extrapolate that, oh, maybe these were

00:27:33   like demo units or first run units from China where they're being built.

00:27:38   The other thing I should point out is my understanding of Apple TV apps as they are today is that

00:27:42   they're all quasi web-based.

00:27:45   So for example, the Plex app, which masqueraded as the trailers app, um, it was like this

00:27:53   weird hack where you set your computer to be a proxy.

00:27:56   And then when you go into the trailers app on the Apple TV, it would intercept that and

00:28:01   it would show you information from Plex, which is a media manager.

00:28:03   It's a fork of XBMC.

00:28:05   Well, anyways, that was all like a XML and HTML and CSS and so on and so forth from what

00:28:10   I'm told.

00:28:11   I don't think that even if there is an SDK,

00:28:14   I think it's more a la the initial iPhone,

00:28:18   which was not native, it was just,

00:28:21   make a web app and be thankful

00:28:23   we're letting you do that much.

00:28:25   - I don't see this happening yet.

00:28:28   I don't know, I mean, Tim Cook hinted early this year,

00:28:32   I think it was maybe at the All Things D conference

00:28:34   or on various earnings calls or whatever else.

00:28:37   Tim Cook hinted on a number of occasions,

00:28:39   pretty strong hints that we would see something that's basically a new category of thing from

00:28:45   Apple this fall.

00:28:47   Is that not the 5C, though?

00:28:49   I don't think the 5C matters that much. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, for the

00:28:53   iPhone, yeah, the 5C is going to be profitable for Apple. They're going to make a killing

00:28:57   on it because the iPhone is their most popular product and they're going to sell a buttload

00:28:59   of 5Cs. But the implication that he gave in these statements was – oh, here, Sam the

00:29:06   geek in the chatroom and says it was a direct quote, "new product categories."

00:29:11   And so I don't, you know, that to me, you know, the implication there is we're talking

00:29:16   about the kind of thing like, you know, like the watch or the TV or one of these new things

00:29:21   people are talking about. That was the implication. Now, you know, maybe he had a loose definition

00:29:26   of that. Maybe the Mac Pro that they announced in June after he said this, maybe the Mac

00:29:31   maybe the Mac Pro is considered a new product category because it's a new type of desktop.

00:29:34   It's not.

00:29:35   Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't consider it one, but maybe he does.

00:29:39   It could have been just that, but I'm betting not.

00:29:41   I'm betting there's something else.

00:29:42   No, I think it's the watch thing.

00:29:46   We're talking about one event on September 10th.

00:29:47   There's still time for an October event for them to announce the "How about the Mac Pro?"

00:29:51   which we know they're going to announce.

00:29:54   There's time to produce an iWatch thing.

00:29:58   There are possibilities out there.

00:29:59   It's just that we're questioning, okay, well, what's going to be on September 10th?

00:30:03   And that seems like it's just going to be a phone event.

00:30:06   I like the suggestion from Njerk in the chat room that the new category is a new AA battery

00:30:12   charger.

00:30:13   No, I mean, I don't know what they're going to do with events this fall.

00:30:18   I mean, obviously, they're not going to cram everything into September 10th event.

00:30:22   That's very likely to just be iPhones.

00:30:25   It's very unlikely to contain anything else at all.

00:30:27   It's going to be probably iOS 7, the official announcement here it's done and it comes out

00:30:33   in today/a week, whatever the case may be.

00:30:40   And they're not going to have events for every release.

00:30:43   If the new MacBook Pros come out and they happen to just be a Haswell update, maybe

00:30:49   Thunderbolt 2, if it's just that and it's not also like Retina display desktops with

00:30:56   with the Mac Pro altogether in one big event,

00:30:58   they wouldn't do an event for just like a CPU update

00:31:01   to a laptop, you know, so we can,

00:31:04   but they still have iPads, they still have the Mac Pro,

00:31:08   they still have potentially a new category,

00:31:11   whatever that means, so I don't know,

00:31:14   this is really, I think we're in for more than we expect.

00:31:19   - You know, I was just thinking that,

00:31:21   and I was thinking, you know, they were,

00:31:23   a lot of the chatter before WWDC

00:31:24   was how quiet Apple had been.

00:31:27   And if you think about it, there hasn't really been much.

00:31:30   Now, yes, iOS 7 was a radical visual departure

00:31:33   from what we've seen in the past.

00:31:35   But by and large, there were some very cool new APIs,

00:31:39   but nothing earth-shattering.

00:31:41   There was no, say, Siri API, for example.

00:31:43   So there's still not been a lot of activity for a year.

00:31:47   I mean, on the one hand, you could say there's been a lot.

00:31:49   But to me, there's not been a lot.

00:31:51   And so I wonder if they're just going to cram everything

00:31:54   into fall. Like everything is coming. Maybe a watch, maybe a new Apple TV, maybe something

00:31:58   else we're not even dreaming of. What if they're so smug and just sitting so quietly

00:32:03   on their laurels waiting for the next three months or so in the beginning of 2014 to just

00:32:08   knock all of our socks off? Because that strikes me as an Apple thing to do.

00:32:12   I don't think there's good. The two things we're talking about for new categories are

00:32:15   television thing and thing you wear. And I can't imagine both of those things being

00:32:19   ready for the holiday season. Even one of them being ready for the holiday season is

00:32:23   still questionable, but it seems like not an Apple thing to do, just to do both amazing

00:32:29   new television product and amazing new thing that you wear probably on your wrist before

00:32:33   the holidays.

00:32:35   Not just because they might not both be ready, but it would distract from one of them.

00:32:39   Like you'd want one of them to be the big push.

00:32:41   You wouldn't want to dilute the message of either one of those things, assuming they're

00:32:45   both as impressive as we all imagine, by having them out at the same time.

00:32:49   One thing that also tipped me off that the timing of this is a little weird is Chris

00:32:54   Parker's departure from UIKit.

00:32:57   So I'm sure you saw that Chris Parker is this really nice guy who works at Apple.

00:33:02   If you've ever gone to WWDC, you've almost definitely seen him give the "What's New in

00:33:06   UIKit" talk.

00:33:07   He's a guy with long, straight, blonde hair, and he's very energetic and gives awesome

00:33:10   talks.

00:33:12   So I follow him on Twitter, nicest guy in the world, and his dog is adorable.

00:33:16   And he and his dog are adorable together.

00:33:18   He was something important-- I don't really know exactly what--

00:33:23   on the UI Kit team for the last four or five years,

00:33:26   some very long time, pretty much since UI Kit

00:33:28   has been a public thing.

00:33:30   And he announced about a month ago or a few weeks ago,

00:33:35   he announced that he was leaving the UI Kit team to go work

00:33:40   on something else within Apple that he couldn't talk about,

00:33:43   that the implication was that it was new and exciting.

00:33:47   So given his experience on the UIKit team,

00:33:51   I assume that this means going to work on something else

00:33:55   that's maybe in the same vein or the same kind of thing,

00:33:59   like a UI-level framework slash API slash developer tool.

00:34:04   And so that would correspond pretty nicely

00:34:06   to if there is a watch or a TV SDK,

00:34:12   then that would make sense.

00:34:15   However, not if they're releasing it this fall.

00:34:17   That would be way too soon.

00:34:18   - So 2014, and I think it was Art Jonesy in the chat

00:34:23   said earlier that Tim Cook had said there would be

00:34:26   new stuff in the fall and in 2014.

00:34:29   So everything you're saying corroborates or fits with that.

00:34:33   That makes sense.

00:34:33   - The question is what's in the fall?

00:34:35   That would be considered possibly a new category.

00:34:37   - Yeah, I don't know, I mean--

00:34:40   - Like maybe the first generation of the quote "watch"

00:34:43   is basically an iPod Nano that can show notifications from your phone on it.

00:34:47   >> We're losing sight of what's important here, guys.

00:34:50   Maverick ship date.

00:34:51   It's concentrated.

00:34:52   >> Who cares, except you.

00:34:54   >> You can throw me a bone, you know.

00:34:57   We have all -- our event today is going to be all about phones and the 5S and the 5C

00:35:01   and colors and then let the end just go on.

00:35:03   By the way, Maverick's going to ship on such and such date.

00:35:06   Thank you.

00:35:07   Good night.

00:35:08   >> You're welcome, John Sirkisa.

00:35:09   >> That's right.

00:35:10   >> They're just going to release it one day.

00:35:11   They're not even going to tell you.

00:35:12   that you're just gonna wake up one morning and it will be on the App Store.

00:35:14   It'll be a Friday night.

00:35:15   Right, and it'll be on the App Store, immediately available for sale, for a price.

00:35:20   Developers will never have received a GM, you know?

00:35:23   Or like, same thing, developers get a GM, but still no date and price.

00:35:27   And then it just, you know, we have the GM for three weeks, and then it arrives in the

00:35:30   store one morning with a price.

00:35:33   You know, how can I get a book into the, any of the e-bookstores if I don't know the price

00:35:38   until it arrives?

00:35:40   Ow, Apple, I ask you.

00:35:42   Well, I mean, you could argue, do you really need to know the price for the content of

00:35:46   your review?

00:35:47   I've already wrote about it with my best guess in the price.

00:35:50   I can delete that whole section.

00:35:51   Can you put in like a variable that you can assign later?

00:35:54   Yeah, right, I'll have it be a web service call.

00:35:58   It'll pull different paragraphs of text.

00:35:59   If it's free, pull this paragraph.

00:36:01   If it costs 99 cents, pull this paragraph.

00:36:05   It'll be an app purchase.

00:36:06   There you go.

00:36:08   Uh, Marco, which reminds me, we should take a note to you and I discuss the

00:36:12   Syracuse rescue plan if this happens and how I'm getting to you and we're getting

00:36:16   to him in time to stop him from doing something stupid.

00:36:18   Well, I can get us to him quickly at least.

00:36:20   And with butt massaging.

00:36:23   Yeah.

00:36:24   And with, we should talk about something awesome.

00:36:26   Speaking of which, uh, our first sponsor this week is a repeat sponsor.

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00:37:23   or geeks, whatever the term is, sorry.

00:37:25   John.

00:37:26   Domain registration is usually

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00:37:32   Usually, the way it works with other registrars

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00:39:48   I didn't realize there was no transfer as well.

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00:40:35   Anyway, what else do we want to talk about?

00:40:38   We have a laundry list of things.

00:40:41   Do we want to talk about confections?

00:40:44   Do we want to talk about how the App Store sucks?

00:40:47   Or do we want to talk about Nokia?

00:40:49   I don't know.

00:40:49   I feel like a lot of these topics

00:40:51   are going to be pretty boring.

00:40:52   I mean, the Kit Kat thing, like, OK, who cares?

00:40:57   Like, who cares which mountain or ski lodge--

00:41:00   Intel uses for the next chip code name like it doesn't really matter

00:41:03   Or what portion of California Apple is using for their next not sea line, right? Yeah, exactly

00:41:09   I mean what yeah

00:41:10   What other portion of California that has an awkward pluralization in the name that nobody who's not in California has ever heard of?

00:41:15   So terrible what could possibly go wrong?

00:41:17   Sorry Californians

00:41:20   All right. So enough of that

00:41:21   Do you want to audible to something totally different a little birdie told me we maybe should talk about Synology's

00:41:26   or Synology

00:41:29   Is that how it's yeah, it's cuz pronounced like synergy but with ology at the end

00:41:33   Synergy ology. Yeah

00:41:36   You want to talk about that we can if you want

00:41:38   I mean I in totally audible away from the thing that probably things that everyone else wants to talk about and talk about we want

00:41:43   To talk about is that a football term? Yes, or an auto or an audiobooks related. It's a football term

00:41:49   Okay, I forgot my audience my apologies

00:41:51   Anyway, so we should back up and explain what we're talking about

00:41:55   So a while ago Marco and you can feel free to interrupt me when you're ready Marco had tweeted about hey

00:42:01   I want to get a new network attached storage

00:42:02   What should I get should I get a drobo should I get this should I get that blah blah blah?

00:42:05   And I remember this was going on right around WWDC

00:42:08   because I remember talking about it in line with you for one of the

00:42:12   presentations in Presidio so anyway so come to find out that somebody from Synology

00:42:18   caught wind of this and offered to send Marco a

00:42:22   Synology network attached storage box

00:42:25   and that was extremely kind of them and then decided you know what we don't want

00:42:30   to just be that awesome let's be even more awesome or yes that's a word and

00:42:34   let's send a box to John and Casey as well and so all three of us have all

00:42:39   gotten the same Synology box they were even they even doubled down on awesome

00:42:43   and filled John's and mine with hard drives I don't know if that can be said

00:42:48   for you as well Marco so they gave us these unbelievably awesome and not cheap

00:42:52   network attached storage boxes, no strings attached whatsoever, and we're talking about

00:42:56   them because we want to, not because they told us we have to. But with that said, they

00:43:01   were comped. So Marco or John, what would you guys like to say about this?

00:43:06   Well, you've already heard me talk a lot about mine back when I got it, so John, why

00:43:10   don't you go ahead?

00:43:11   I'll preface it by saying that I haven't had a network attached storage box before,

00:43:15   except for the transporter, which the transporter guys sent us, and they have sponsored the

00:43:19   show, and we've talked about those before.

00:43:21   See, this is why you should start a podcast, everybody.

00:43:23   If you want network-attached storage, yeah.

00:43:27   We can't really get a whole lot else, but if you want network-attached storage, we have

00:43:30   tons of that.

00:43:31   Yeah.

00:43:32   So, the transporters, you've all seen them.

00:43:34   They're very small.

00:43:35   They're also much cheaper than something like a Synology.

00:43:37   But that was the first network-attached storage thing I had, and I use it, as I described,

00:43:41   in a past transporter spot, kind of like a little magical thing that just contains my

00:43:46   data.

00:43:47   And I've been using the transporter a lot.

00:43:48   I know this is gonna talk about Synology, but briefly in the transporter thing, like,

00:43:53   now that I know other people also in the podcasting space who have transporters, when I want to

00:43:58   send a large file to somebody and I know they have a transporter, it's such a relief because

00:44:03   they don't have to do one of those like, "Oh, can I put it in my Dropbox and give them a

00:44:06   public URL?

00:44:07   Maybe, maybe not."

00:44:08   Or one of those file send it services or it's too big to send over email or I have to host

00:44:13   it on a web server and keep my computer running for them.

00:44:15   It's so much easier if I can just jam it into the transporter and send them a little share

00:44:18   request and then put my computer to sleep and not think about it.

00:44:21   So anyway, that was my first experience with network-attached storage, and that's already

00:44:24   changed my life to a similar degree that Dropbox did, where now you have this new third place

00:44:31   where you can put things and stage things that's not one of your computers that doesn't

00:44:35   require you to keep your computers on or connected or whatever.

00:44:39   So that was kind of a relief.

00:44:40   But what I was always looking for in my life for network-attached storage is the same type

00:44:45   of thing.

00:44:46   The third place, the other place that isn't on any of my one computers, but that is gigantic.

00:44:51   Like that can fit all my crap on it, plus all backups.

00:44:54   It can't just be one little hard drive or two little hard drives.

00:44:57   It has to just be massive.

00:44:59   And I never could bring myself to buy one of those things because I had no experience

00:45:03   in the field and I was afraid I would get the wrong thing.

00:45:07   You know, I look at all these sort of do-it-yourself projects, and you know, I'm such a big fan of ZFS,

00:45:10   so I could try to build one of those with Open Solaris and ZFS, or this FreeBSD ZFS boxes,

00:45:15   or these build-your-own-NAS things, or maybe I should just get a little PC and stuff it full of disks and put it in the basement.

00:45:20   I never knew what to do, so Synology solved the problem for me by sending me this box,

00:45:24   and my expectations were actually pretty low, because like the transporter I expected to work like an appliance,

00:45:29   because it looks like an appliance, looks like a little tiny... it's not even as big as a potted plant,

00:45:32   but it's a cute little vertical thing, looks like a little computerized garden gnome,

00:45:36   And it's like, oh, it's adorable, and it's great.

00:45:39   It's one 2.5-inch drive in there,

00:45:42   so I'm not expecting, again, terabytes of storage.

00:45:44   But everything else looks like some big, ugly PC thing.

00:45:47   I remember when Marco got his, I was asking him,

00:45:49   like, does that have fans?

00:45:51   How loud are the fans?

00:45:52   How can you have this thing in the same room?

00:45:53   You put it in a closet.

00:45:54   Isn't it overheating the closet?

00:45:56   I didn't have high expectations for this thing.

00:45:58   I figured it would be a big, ugly, noisy PC with disks

00:46:01   in it.

00:46:03   And I got the box, and it's big, and it's heavy,

00:46:06   It feels like it costs as much money as it does because it's made of metal. It's very solid

00:46:11   It was stuffed with hard drives. I got like the 8 drive model. So it's stuffed with eight hard drives

00:46:15   Took it out of the box and like the instructions that come with it are like two sentences long

00:46:20   It's like plug into power plug into Ethernet go to your computer and type

00:46:25   Find that Synology comm or whatever into your web browser

00:46:28   Like it was just a host name that you type into your web browser and then that somehow

00:46:32   finds your

00:46:34   network attached storage to your network and

00:46:36   And there it is and like alright well

00:46:38   It just mounted is like a single volume a single massive volume, which is like oh, that's great and everything

00:46:43   That's not what I wanted to do. I'm like oh no. What am I gonna do with this thing like having you know?

00:46:47   24 terabyte of storage just sitting there on my desktop with network attached isn't very useful to me, so I I

00:46:54   you know fired up the

00:46:57   software interface of this thing which I expected to look like I

00:47:00   I don't know if you ever had a non-apple router and it's like that web page you go to and a little

00:47:04   Locally hosted a web server and it looks like some disgusting thing or whatever, but I didn't care

00:47:08   I'm like fine that if it looks gross like that. That's fine

00:47:10   I just want to be able to like at first I was like oh my god

00:47:12   Maybe I didn't understand what this thing is

00:47:14   Maybe it just gives you like

00:47:15   You know it puts all the discs together in some kind of rate arrangement or something and you can choose which rate arrangement

00:47:20   Maybe just shows up as one volume, but like I don't want to use it like that

00:47:22   I want to divvy it up into different pieces and slices and I

00:47:26   I shouldn't have worried because the interface they have, it's a web interface, but and it doesn't look like an Apple web interface

00:47:32   It looks kind of like a Linux on the desktop kind of interface influenced by the original Apple aqua stuff

00:47:38   But it is perfectly serviceable

00:47:41   It works the way you expect, even the little windows you can drag around and stuff

00:47:44   And you can do anything with this thing like just by clicking around you can divvy this thing up into

00:47:49   Any possible arrangement of every any different raid strategy carve up volumes into different pieces

00:47:55   Make it appear has different volumes the mounting computer apply it create user accounts apply quotas

00:47:59   and maybe this is all old hat for people who know NAS stuffs, but I was impressed by the

00:48:02   Flexibility of this thing and my main problem now is it's too many possibilities. I don't

00:48:08   I don't know how I'm gonna divvy this thing is it's so much space and I have I have so many schemes and like that

00:48:14   I want to do to it

00:48:14   So I spent like the first week just slicing these discs up into different pieces and then reformatting them all and slice it reslice

00:48:20   And then trying this out and installing applications doing all this stuff

00:48:23   And the whole time, by the way, this thing is in my basement, and it has two gigantic fans in the back of it

00:48:30   that are amazingly quiet. Not quiet enough that I would ever want it in the room with me,

00:48:34   but still pretty darn amazingly quiet.

00:48:35   And in fact, when it comes out of the box, one of the umpteen settings that's in the web interface is...

00:48:40   I thought you were gonna find this.

00:48:42   I found every option on this thing. It's quiet mode and cool mode. And it comes shipped in quiet mode.

00:48:47   And it's like, well, the whole reason I put it in my basement is so I don't have to deal with it.

00:48:50   So I switched to cool mode and it is not that much noisier. I can't even tell the difference

00:48:54   I mean it's about the same amount of noise either way

00:48:56   So I have this thing down in the basement about six feet off the ground on top of something

00:49:01   With a you know cat6 cable running to the back of it

00:49:04   And I put my transporter down there too, and I put a UPS down there also off the ground

00:49:08   So like basically if my basement floods the water has to get six feet high before it takes my network attached storage offline

00:49:13   Right in which case you have lots of other problems. Yeah, and we don't have flooding here anyway

00:49:16   So this has really changed my life like that. I have this unseen magical storage

00:49:21   That's always on that I can even make it accessible from the web

00:49:24   I've wanted because of course the box has that feature as well

00:49:26   So I'm mightily impressed with this and I would not hesitate to suggest

00:49:30   this product for anyone who wants network attached storage because and

00:49:34   Everything that I've asked it to do including network time machine backups from two separate Macs

00:49:38   That's the great thing about I figured when they did a line or mountain line let you add the second disk

00:49:42   to a time machine. I just said, "Why the hell not?" And I added it as the second time machine destination for all the computers in my house,

00:49:50   and now they back up to their local time machine disks that they always had, and they also back up to the network one.

00:49:54   And that was my first test of it.

00:49:56   Can you back up four million files off my Mac Pro to a network time machine?

00:50:00   The answer is yes. Now, maybe it will flip out when it runs out of space because it does that when it's not your regular disk,

00:50:05   and that's not really the fault of the the Synology.

00:50:08   But it it has done everything I've asked it to do and I'm very impressed by it. I give it two big thumbs up

00:50:14   I will say also before before I had the Synology last year when I was using a laptop instead of a Mac Pro full-time

00:50:21   I had a Mac Mini running leopard or sorry lion server and

00:50:26   Using network time machine that way like with a USB disk put into the Mac Mini with your time machine or through Apple server

00:50:32   through over the network to my laptop and

00:50:35   It was incredibly slow

00:50:38   To backup, to look things up, to restore files, it was just ungodly slow.

00:50:44   With the Synology, with the Mac Pro, obviously there's a lot of different factors here.

00:50:48   The disks aren't external to it, although you can plug in USB drives to it, but in this

00:50:52   case I didn't.

00:50:55   It's just way faster.

00:50:56   I would say Time Machine, both backups and restores and browsers from my Mac Pro to the

00:51:02   this analogy are just as fast perceptibly, to me at least, just as fast as using a local

00:51:08   disk.

00:51:09   The time machine itself is still an incredibly slow and terrible protocol.

00:51:13   Even just doing it to a disk inside my Mac Pro, it's slow because it's just doing

00:51:18   all sorts of terrible things.

00:51:19   So one of the things I did do with this is try to see what kind of speeds I was getting

00:51:22   from it.

00:51:23   And I enabled jumbo frames, which I hadn't done before because I had never had a reason

00:51:27   to, but now all of a sudden I have a reason to enable jumbo frames, and I was happy to

00:51:30   I learned that all of my switches in between me and the NAS support jumbo frame, so I turned

00:51:35   it all on.

00:51:36   And I was getting over 100 megabytes a second just writing big media files, which is obviously

00:51:42   the easiest case, to this thing.

00:51:44   So I'm completely satisfied with the speed.

00:51:46   Of course, Time Machine is still slow as balls, but it's obviously not the fault of the hardware

00:51:52   or anything in between.

00:51:53   It's entirely a software thing, which I'm willing to live with.

00:51:56   But it's not so slow that it seems like about the same speed as time machine to an internal

00:52:01   disk.

00:52:02   See, that's what I'm saying.

00:52:03   It's about the same.

00:52:04   For me, it wasn't even—I mean, I haven't done a massive restore yet, but I've pulled

00:52:08   a few files off of it here and there.

00:52:10   And doing that really just feels the same as it always did using an internal 3.5-inch

00:52:14   drive in the Mac Pro.

00:52:15   The one thing that I planned poorly about was when I knew the NAS was coming, I ran

00:52:19   another cable from my computer room through these various holes I have, fishing it through

00:52:25   with a hanger and everything, my own sort of, you know, I have several cables going

00:52:29   through these holes, but every time I do it, I never bother to like, put a lead in there

00:52:32   so I can pull things back and forth.

00:52:34   Anyway, I did a new cable and stapled it all up to the, you know, rafters and got it all

00:52:37   the way into the other corner of the house where the NAS stuff is.

00:52:40   And then when the NAS came, I put it down, then I realized this has four LAN ports in

00:52:43   the back of it.

00:52:44   I could have, I should have run three more wires was a big mistake.

00:52:49   And now if I run this, I could in theory run one cable to my Mac to the switches, I could

00:52:55   I could also run another cable directly to the back of my television if I wanted to stream,

00:52:58   because of course this thing is a DLNA server and it does video streaming and everything.

00:53:02   So it would have a gigabit to and from my Mac, but it would also have a separate gigabit interface

00:53:06   to and from my entertainment center if I wanted to stream movies.

00:53:10   And those movies wanted to transfer at 100 megabytes a second, which is kind of unreasonable.

00:53:14   But anyway, that has four ports in the back, so I kind of regret not running more wire,

00:53:18   but that's not the fault of the NAS.

00:53:19   And also it supports connection bonding.

00:53:22   So if your switch supports that, you can, I believe, bond all four of the ports together.

00:53:26   Yeah, I've got two ports in the back of my Mac Pro, and the new Mac Pros do as well,

00:53:30   so if I bonded those interfaces, can you do that in OS X? I'm assuming you can.

00:53:34   I don't know. I've never tried. I would hope so. I mean, on a Mac Pro, which is the only

00:53:38   Mac that has multiple Ethernet ports, that would make a lot of sense.

00:53:41   Yeah. All right, so Casey, what did you think?

00:53:44   So I too had never had network-attached storage before the file transporter, which clearly

00:53:49   serves a wildly different purpose than the Synology.

00:53:54   And previous to getting the Synology, I had the most ridiculous setup of half USB external

00:54:02   enclosures.

00:54:03   Well, they were all like USB external enclosures, but one or two were connected to my airport

00:54:09   extreme, one or two were hard-lined into one of my Macs, and so this way my two Macs could

00:54:15   back themselves up via time machine.

00:54:17   It was ridiculous.

00:54:18   I'm actually fairly embarrassed at how ridiculous it was. So I get this Synology and I divvied it up

00:54:24   So it's the particular ones we got were the 1813 pluses

00:54:28   Which are kind of the Big Daddy models if you will which again, thank you so much Synology for sending them

00:54:33   And so I took the first two physical drives. This was mostly Marco's recommendation took the first two drives made them one

00:54:40   single volume and that would be Time Machine backups for my two Macs and Aaron's Mac and then I took the other six and

00:54:48   and said do that Synology Hybrid RAID whatever magic thing

00:54:52   to make it one gigantic volume with one redundant drive.

00:54:56   - Right, and that becomes expandable.

00:54:58   It's very similar to how Drobos work,

00:55:00   where they call it the SxR for Synology Hybrid RAID,

00:55:04   and it's very similar to Drobos

00:55:06   where you can pull one drive out

00:55:07   and replace it with a bigger one,

00:55:09   and then it'll rebuild the array and expand it.

00:55:12   Although the reason, I should point out now,

00:55:13   if you don't mind, Casey,

00:55:14   the reason I recommended that you split it up like that

00:55:16   is that the hybrid RAID volumes are very big and very expandable,

00:55:22   but also very slow.

00:55:24   Because when you think about how it works,

00:55:26   it's similar to how RAID 5 works, where every access,

00:55:29   every read and write, requires all of the disks in the array

00:55:33   to read and write before it's done.

00:55:34   And so you can imagine, in reality,

00:55:37   that's actually slower than one disk in that kind

00:55:40   of performance, especially on writes.

00:55:43   It's especially so on writes.

00:55:44   And so, you know, the SHR volume for me,

00:55:49   like I was a little nervous to have eight discs

00:55:53   all reading and writing constantly

00:55:55   with the exact same things.

00:55:56   I was nervous for both the speed of that

00:55:58   and also the lifetime of those discs

00:55:59   being all read and written to like exactly the same amount

00:56:02   and for everything.

00:56:03   I figured that was pretty heavy use

00:56:05   and I don't want my discs to die early

00:56:07   'cause none of them are like those crazy,

00:56:08   you know, NAS editions or RAID editions

00:56:10   or whatever the stupid things

00:56:12   that drive manufacturers do these days

00:56:13   to try to get more money out of us.

00:56:16   So that's why I recommend-- like Time Machine

00:56:18   is a very different access pattern than everything else.

00:56:21   Time Machine is very frequent.

00:56:23   It should be fast.

00:56:24   So I do two disks in RAID 0, which I know is crazy,

00:56:28   but it's a backup.

00:56:29   And it's not even my only backup.

00:56:31   So I figure it's OK.

00:56:33   Two disks in RAID 0 are Time Machine for us.

00:56:37   And the reason why we have to do it that way

00:56:39   is because I don't know whether this is a limitation of just

00:56:43   just the Synology Management Interface or the underlying

00:56:46   component they're using that's probably a BSD thing that

00:56:49   emulates Time Machine.

00:56:50   But you can only have one Time Machine

00:56:52   share on the Synology at once.

00:56:55   So if you want multiple computers to back up to one--

00:56:58   if you want multiple computers back up to the Synology at all,

00:57:01   you have to have them all go to the same share,

00:57:04   and then you can manage their space with user quotas.

00:57:07   But we will see how well that works in practice.

00:57:10   Anyway, so I did the two RAID zeroes for that,

00:57:12   And then I have four disks in SHR for my general big file

00:57:18   storage and media serving and stuff like that.

00:57:20   And then I have two bays empty for future expansion.

00:57:24   So yeah, Casey, sorry.

00:57:25   Proceed.

00:57:26   No, no, not at all.

00:57:27   So mine is fully loaded.

00:57:28   So I have the two, like you had said, two in RAID 0,

00:57:31   and then the other six is one gigantic drive.

00:57:34   A few things that-- and let me pick up my little clipboard

00:57:37   I've been taking notes on-- a few things that I wanted

00:57:40   to point out about the Synology.

00:57:43   Firstly, it has actually a suite of iOS apps you can

00:57:46   download.

00:57:47   One of them is just a general manager.

00:57:49   So if you expose it to the internet, which, by the way,

00:57:53   you can get your own SSL certificate and install it and

00:57:56   so on and so forth.

00:57:57   But anyways, if you expose it via the internet, you can

00:58:00   manage it remotely via the web.

00:58:02   You can manage it remotely via this iOS app.

00:58:04   Also, the Synology itself has kind of a package manager.

00:58:08   And so you can actually install different packages.

00:58:12   And one of the packages I installed was a download manager.

00:58:15   And so that'll let me download,

00:58:17   if I wanted to download a torrent

00:58:19   or if I have a news group account

00:58:21   and want to download news group things,

00:58:23   I can, or even just do like a W get

00:58:25   for all intents and purposes,

00:58:26   all of that can be done on the Synology

00:58:28   and there's a separate iOS app for that.

00:58:30   It has a Plex app on the Synology.

00:58:34   So if all of your media is on the Synology,

00:58:36   which all of mine is,

00:58:38   then it can expose that via Plex.

00:58:40   And I think I mentioned earlier in the show

00:58:42   that Plex is a really neat media manager.

00:58:45   Let's see what else.

00:58:47   There are smaller versions of the Synology.

00:58:49   So like I said, we were lucky enough

00:58:52   to get the big daddy ones,

00:58:53   but there are smaller ones that have fewer drives.

00:58:56   And I believe all of this line of Synologies

00:58:59   also support getting like daughter boxes

00:59:03   for lack of a better word.

00:59:04   - Yeah, like an expansion box.

00:59:05   - Right, and so you could load a bunch of drives in there

00:59:07   in the future if you decide you need to.

00:59:10   And this way you don't have to pay the price

00:59:12   for this whole big thing up front.

00:59:13   And you could get one of the smaller ones

00:59:15   and then add on if you really find you need to.

00:59:17   - You can also hook up USB disks.

00:59:19   They have USB ports in the back.

00:59:20   And like for example, I have a bus powered one terabyte drive

00:59:22   that if I wanted I could just go throw that down

00:59:24   in the basement and I've got an extra one terabyte

00:59:26   of portable storage that just, you know,

00:59:29   attached to the thing.

00:59:30   - Although you can't, as far as I can tell,

00:59:31   when it mounts a USB drive,

00:59:33   you don't have all the same options.

00:59:34   Like you can't make raid volumes out of them

00:59:37   and stuff like that.

00:59:38   It's just a basic test.

00:59:39   It would just be like a portable appendage.

00:59:41   Right, exactly.

00:59:42   But yeah, as far as I know, so we have the DS1813+.

00:59:49   All the numbers that end in threes, I think,

00:59:50   are the most recent revisions right now.

00:59:53   So the 1813, there's also the 1513, same thing,

00:59:56   but instead of eight bays, it has five.

00:59:58   But I think otherwise, it's effectively identical,

01:00:00   and it has all the same capabilities.

01:00:02   If you don't need eight bays, I would say the 1513+ is probably

01:00:05   the one to look at.

01:00:06   And there's even two Bay models, like down to the low end.

01:00:09   And I think they have less processing power

01:00:12   because they have to be so cheap.

01:00:13   So I'm not sure if they would be able to do

01:00:15   all these exact same things.

01:00:17   But the five Bay and eight Bay models are pretty great.

01:00:22   Someone in the chat room was asking

01:00:24   whether they thought it was worth it for the price.

01:00:26   And obviously it's worth it for us because we got it for free.

01:00:29   But the price is a question.

01:00:31   And maybe that was what was keeping me away

01:00:33   from buying one.

01:00:34   It's that these things are expensive.

01:00:35   you look at them you're like, "Well, I could just buy a PC for that price."

01:00:39   But then the reason I wasn't buying a PC for that price was, well, you buy a PC then you

01:00:44   have to install an OS, probably install Linux on there and deal with volume management and

01:00:48   where you're going to put the drives and are they going to be all internal and how easy

01:00:51   is it to get them and maybe you should buy a shuttle PC where you can get them in and

01:00:54   out.

01:00:55   Eventually you end up sort of cobbling together your own NAS, like with the Do-It-Yourself

01:00:59   NAS kits.

01:01:00   You arrive back at the thing that Synology is providing for you already done.

01:01:04   software, hardware, everything included.

01:01:06   And I should have just pulled the trigger on that before,

01:01:09   because that to me is worth the price.

01:01:11   Now, the downside for me as a Unix nerd

01:01:14   is that don't go into this expecting

01:01:16   that what you're going to get is a Linux PC

01:01:19   with logical volume management and stuff like that.

01:01:23   Like, you can get a shell, you can SSH into it,

01:01:26   but, and you know, it's like whatever,

01:01:28   it's like an Atom processor or something,

01:01:29   but it is not a full-fledged Linux PC

01:01:32   that you can just expect to immediately pop right in there

01:01:34   It's gonna have all your Linux user land that you expected and you're gonna be able to just install your own

01:01:38   Stuff from RPMs and just treat it like oh, it's like I have a Linux PC

01:01:42   And also I have a NAS what you have is a NAS and it is totally designed from top to bottom to be network attached

01:01:47   storage and not designed from top to bottom for you to just

01:01:49   Have an interactive user shell and use it as like your little place to the ussh into and you can install us

01:01:55   as a you know as

01:01:56   They I think comes with it or maybe in the packaging manager

01:01:58   You can install Perl from their package or manager and stuff like you can do all that stuff

01:02:02   But it doesn't come out of the box for that so if you're expecting

01:02:04   Like a Linux home server that you're going to be using interactively from a shell

01:02:09   Well, I don't know how people wanted that except for me. Maybe this is not that thing

01:02:12   This is a NAS and although you can make it act kind of like a Linux machine

01:02:15   It's kind of like swinging as the tide to do that so because like I went in there for example like I'm gonna set up

01:02:20   Some cron jobs to do stuff instead of going through the GUI

01:02:23   But I don't think cron D was on there

01:02:25   Or maybe it was a second like it's very clear once I like the shell they give you isn't even like bash or let alone

01:02:31   you know, my favorite shell TZSH.

01:02:33   You can install ZSH, you can install Bash,

01:02:35   you can install all these things,

01:02:36   but they're not there to be in with.

01:02:37   That's a signal to you to not set up cron jobs,

01:02:40   but to use it like a NAS,

01:02:41   because there's a GUI interface for all this stuff.

01:02:43   You have some repeated job you wanna do,

01:02:45   you know, go nuts with it.

01:02:46   So that's the only caveat I would give to this,

01:02:49   this thing is, if you want something

01:02:51   that's a network attached storage appliance, buy this.

01:02:53   If you want a Linux home server, buy a Linux home server.

01:02:56   - Yeah, I agree with that.

01:02:57   I mean, if you're gonna wanna like,

01:03:00   really hack it and if you're going to want to do things

01:03:04   that it can't do officially, and there's

01:03:06   a lot that it can do officially.

01:03:08   They have kind of like an app store type interface,

01:03:11   or like a package manager interface

01:03:13   that you can install a bunch of stuff from.

01:03:14   And you can probably browse it on their site somewhere.

01:03:17   But I would say, yeah, you can SSH into it.

01:03:21   I tried installing the crash plan client directly onto it,

01:03:25   so you can have it back itself up to crash plan.

01:03:28   And because my crash plan server here,

01:03:30   as we discussed previously, because my crash plan nearest

01:03:33   server is terrible, I ended up abandoning that.

01:03:35   But I did get it working.

01:03:36   It just was too slow to upload to matter.

01:03:38   But if you're going into that area of installing

01:03:44   your own package manager, and then installing Java,

01:03:47   and then installing your own stuff, at that point

01:03:49   you might want your own PC, a regular Linux PC that

01:03:53   happens to have a bunch of drives in it maybe.

01:03:56   But if what you're looking for is the NAS, then yeah, I agree with John that this is

01:04:00   pretty much the way to go.

01:04:01   Yeah, and I had a couple other quick thoughts, and one of them actually was about CrashPlan.

01:04:06   So I have two MacBook Pros, one of which is works, one of which is mine, and the one that's

01:04:12   mine has CrashPlan on it.

01:04:14   And I told my Mac, I told CrashPlan to look at the Synology and back it up, the big, you

01:04:22   know, what is it, 15 terabyte array or whatever it is.

01:04:25   it took, I don't know, three or four days or something like that because I don't have the problems you have with Crash Plan and

01:04:30   sure enough all of that is now in Crash Plan. I'm not paying anything extra for it.

01:04:34   It's all just up there waiting for me, which is really great.

01:04:37   And the other thing I wanted to point out was, you know, just like John said it really changed my world.

01:04:41   And I mean that because, say for example, I really like Top Gear.

01:04:47   It's my favorite TV show, the British version.

01:04:50   And so I have all of these episodes of Top Gear stored on

01:04:53   literally 15 or 20 DVDs. And as John berated me about early on in ATP's existence, that really

01:05:00   isn't a very good mechanism for keeping all of these files. Additionally, I had, you know,

01:05:05   all of our wedding pictures on a couple of DVDs. And yes, I had a couple of backups of those, but

01:05:10   all of these things that were just sitting on DVDs in various binders or whatever you call them,

01:05:15   from straight out of like '99, they're now all, they've all now been sucked into the Synology.

01:05:21   And now, in principle, I never have to worry about them again.

01:05:24   And that is really awesome.

01:05:25   And on top of that, if I want to watch some random episode from the fifth season or series of Top Gear,

01:05:31   I can do that in no time.

01:05:33   Whereas before, I would have to say, "Oh, God. Now I got to go up to the office, find the binder full of Top Gear DVDs,

01:05:39   figure out which one is the one that has the Top Gear episode I wasn't able to take in forever."

01:05:44   Now it's all just right there.

01:05:45   So in summary, it really has been awesome.

01:05:48   I've never I've always kind of felt like I wanted a network attached storage

01:05:52   But I never felt like it was something I needed and now I've been completely changed now

01:05:57   I must have this in my life, so I definitely recommend it even if you don't get the model

01:06:02   We have find a different model that fits your needs, but I definitely recommend it

01:06:06   I can't say thank you enough for the folks at Synology for sending all of us one that was extremely kind

01:06:11   Yeah

01:06:11   Really great of them to do that

01:06:12   And I'm compelled at this point to remind people because no one has said it yet in this discussion that raid is not a backup

01:06:18   solution. Just keep repeating that to yourself as many times as possible. Like when I was divvying up

01:06:23   my Synology and I still haven't come up with a final setup that I'm going to do, but mostly I

01:06:29   was settling on using it as not as a just a box of disks type of thing, but close to that where

01:06:36   I'm struggling to think of any reason why I would set up any kind of RAID situation because

01:06:42   none of the stuff that I'm using, like the reason you want RAID is because you don't want

01:06:47   downtime. But I'm not in that type of environment. I can be down for a day or two days, and it's not

01:06:52   a big deal as long as I don't lose data. So I don't need to like, "Oh, I've got to put that in

01:06:58   at least arrayed one because what if one drive fails?" All these things are, the vast majority

01:07:03   of it for me, are backups of things that I already have on probably two other hard drives elsewhere

01:07:09   in the house plus in the cloud. And for the few things that I have on there that would only be on

01:07:14   on the Synology, like all my media files that I'm going to,

01:07:17   they're all on my Mac Pro now,

01:07:18   so they really are backups now,

01:07:19   but when I get my new Mac Pro

01:07:21   with its dinky internal storage,

01:07:23   a lot of it will only be on the Synology.

01:07:25   And when that happens, my solution is going to be

01:07:28   to set up two volumes on the Synology,

01:07:31   one of which has all my media,

01:07:33   and one of which has a regularly backed up copy

01:07:35   of all of my media.

01:07:36   And why wouldn't I just do a RAID setup?

01:07:38   Because if something goes wrong

01:07:39   and I accidentally delete everything,

01:07:40   or it gets corrupted or something bad happens,

01:07:42   A backup is something that doesn't change at the same time you change the primary.

01:07:46   So no RAID solution, SHR, whatever, RAID 10, RAID 6, is going to save you if you accidentally delete all your files.

01:07:52   Because it will delete them across all of your disks.

01:07:55   And when you say, "Hey, I want those backs!" it'll say, "You should have had a backup."

01:07:58   So I'm going to end up divvying this thing up into many different slices, maybe with a few RAID 0 things in there.

01:08:03   But probably almost no redundancy or data protection.

01:08:06   All of my data protection is probably going to be by having the Synology backup to itself.

01:08:11   and of course to online and all the other places that I back up.

01:08:14   So that's actually kind of a surprise to me too, after all the stuff of thinking about different raid schemes and stuff.

01:08:19   I tried many of them and every time I looked at it I was like, "This is really what I want?"

01:08:24   And it's one of the few things that made me finally buy Carbon Copy Cloner, which I hadn't bought for years because I'd always been using Super Duper.

01:08:30   But Super Duper doesn't do network disks and Carbon Copy Cloner does.

01:08:33   So if I want to have two volumes on the NAS, I can have a job that on any of my Macs, it

01:08:39   will smart copy one—I'm using super-duper terminology—intelligently copy one of those

01:08:45   volumes onto the other to make a weekly or whatever backup of my media drive instead

01:08:50   of you doing a RAID 1 volume or a RAID 5 volume for my media and thinking that somehow that's

01:08:55   protecting it because it wouldn't be.

01:08:58   And despite all the times we've talked about it, none of us have tried iSCSI yet.

01:09:00   No, no.

01:09:01   No, I'm still too afraid of it. I mean, I'm assuming it would work fine, but I'm like this works so well

01:09:06   Why would I why like what is it that I can't do with it the way it is that I would want install kernel

01:09:11   Extension, you know back up with back, please. That's a big one

01:09:13   Well, I'm already a crash plan subscriber, right?

01:09:17   You know, so I'll probably just like do like a see didn't suck this all into my crash plan thing

01:09:21   But may still use back place for my local Mac. I don't know him decided

01:09:24   or I could see like, you know, if you if you wanted to use one of the Synology discs as like a

01:09:30   Photoshop scratch disk or something like that like some some disk role where the network protocol overhead might be

01:09:38   Prohibitively slow for it or weird in other ways

01:09:41   And you don't need to share it then that might be that might work, but who knows yeah

01:09:45   There's a the latest version of the Synology software

01:09:48   has support for SSD

01:09:50   Doesn't have some kind of SSD support like an SSD cache drive. Yeah, I haven't listened to it yet

01:09:55   Yeah, like the read caching a few other a few other NASA's do this already also

01:09:59   so they're not the first ones to do this.

01:10:01   But yeah, it works similar to how you'd expect it, basically.

01:10:05   Not quite like Fusion Drive,

01:10:06   but it basically uses an SSD of whatever size.

01:10:10   You stick it in there and it can use it as a read cache,

01:10:13   but I don't know in detail how that works.

01:10:15   - And I was thinking that that would be for people

01:10:17   who have massive aperture libraries or something,

01:10:19   and they use it with the iSCSI interface, right?

01:10:22   And so then they get a little bit extra performance

01:10:23   because they're really thrashing it or whatever.

01:10:26   - Well, the difference though is that,

01:10:27   it depends on how it's being used.

01:10:28   Like, Fusion Drive is interesting because it's not just a cache, it's actually moving

01:10:34   blocks around and saying, "Alright, this block that's being actively read and written to

01:10:38   now lives here on the SSD."

01:10:41   And so it can not only make reads faster, but it can make writes faster.

01:10:45   And if it's kind of like a simple dumb caching arrangement instead, where the data still

01:10:50   lives on the spinning disks and the SSD is just like a read cache for it, then that's

01:10:54   great for reads, but it doesn't do you any good for writes.

01:10:57   Yeah, I still wish I could, I'm still trying to angle with this new, you know, trash can

01:11:02   Mac Pro, if I could somehow get a fusion-based boot drive out of that thing.

01:11:08   Oh yeah, good luck with that.

01:11:10   I mean, either that or I want like a 1.5 terabyte SSD, but I know that's not gonna happen, so

01:11:14   I'm thinking of something.

01:11:16   So my NAS is not entirely solved in my Mac Pro problem, but that's Apple's fault, not

01:11:20   Synology's, because they didn't put any drives in the damn thing.

01:11:24   Oh goodness.

01:11:25   Oh goodness. All right, so really quick question Marco and then please tell me about something else that's awesome.

01:11:30   I've been asked by some friends that actually believe in photography in a way that I don't.

01:11:35   If the Synology works as a like aperture or lightroom, I don't even know the terms, like library or something like that.

01:11:44   And I feel like I saw you answer this via Twitter or email or something like that.

01:11:47   But do you find for you and/or TIFF especially, like what is your workflow?

01:11:52   can you use this as your primary working drive?

01:11:54   Or how did you guys divvy that up?

01:11:57   - We really don't know.

01:11:58   I mean, neither of us are qualified to know.

01:11:59   Tiff's photo management is,

01:12:01   she uses her own file and folder structure

01:12:04   and uses Adobe Bridge and Photoshop.

01:12:06   Bridge for browsing and light editing and raw,

01:12:08   and Photoshop for more detailed editing.

01:12:10   So that's, Bridge is basically a file browser.

01:12:13   Like it doesn't keep much of its own library around.

01:12:16   It doesn't manage the files for you.

01:12:19   I use Lightroom, which is not actually that different from Bridge.

01:12:25   Lightroom is basically a nice interface with a few different,

01:12:29   like a few additional library management features on top of Bridge.

01:12:33   It has all the same editing controls, the same, you know, camera raw stuff that Adobe does.

01:12:37   What I like about Lightroom, actually, a little side note, what I like about Lightroom a lot,

01:12:42   first of all, compared to Aperture, it's way faster, way more frequently updated, and way more stable.

01:12:47   and the processing stuff they have is really good.

01:12:52   It's, I would say, far ahead of Aperture at this point,

01:12:55   with no sign of Aperture catching up anytime soon.

01:12:57   Aperture always has felt like there's nobody working on it,

01:13:00   and I think that's actually been true for a lot of the time

01:13:02   that it's been around.

01:13:03   But anyway, so the problem is, though,

01:13:06   neither of us can tell you,

01:13:07   'cause Tif doesn't use things where the library

01:13:10   would be like half there and half in her computer.

01:13:12   She has some old archive client work

01:13:16   that just the folders are on the NAS now,

01:13:18   but she's not like actively browsing that,

01:13:20   so you can't really tell.

01:13:22   I actually still keep my entire photo library

01:13:24   on my local SSD.

01:13:26   So the NAS for me does not take a role in this.

01:13:30   People keep asking me this all the time,

01:13:31   and I can't, I'm sorry, I can't give you the answer.

01:13:34   Aperture has this weird concept of like,

01:13:38   you can have the masters in one place,

01:13:40   and then you can have like the working files

01:13:41   or previews locally or something.

01:13:43   And back when I used Aperture,

01:13:45   I used it for a couple of years.

01:13:47   And I never, one of the reasons I stopped using it,

01:13:49   besides all the other problems I decided,

01:13:51   was I was never quite clear on where the files were.

01:13:55   And like, what I'm supposed to be managing here,

01:13:59   like where is this file?

01:14:00   Do I actually have a copy of this file?

01:14:03   Can I delete this version of this?

01:14:06   Is that gonna delete the original?

01:14:07   And the whole concept of vaults and reference masters

01:14:11   and all this crazy stuff Aputure has to manage files

01:14:14   and where they're located,

01:14:15   I could just never wrap my head around it.

01:14:17   So I never really used much of it.

01:14:19   And with Lightroom, you have a lot more control.

01:14:22   I think it's less, I think,

01:14:24   and I don't use this stuff that heavily,

01:14:26   so with a grain of salt,

01:14:27   but Lightroom seems to have less automatic management

01:14:32   of those files, but it gives you more control

01:14:35   over the file structure and where it goes.

01:14:37   It doesn't try to just hide it all in a bundle

01:14:38   like Aperture does.

01:14:39   It has, you just tell it what directory to import to,

01:14:43   and it imports to those directories.

01:14:45   And I like that a lot better.

01:14:47   But to answer your original question,

01:14:49   I can't actually tell you how it is using a photo library

01:14:53   on a NAS.

01:14:54   I really can't tell you.

01:14:55   That's one of those examples where maybe iSCSI might be

01:14:59   worth considering or trying.

01:15:01   Fair enough.

01:15:02   How about something awesome?

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01:17:44   So there's a couple things I think we could talk about, but we're a little short on time.

01:17:48   So do we have any thoughts on OmniKeyMapper, or whatever it was called?

01:17:53   Do you know what I'm talking about?

01:17:55   I do.

01:17:56   Yeah.

01:17:57   Go ahead, Jon, because I don't know much about it.

01:17:58   I mean, I don't have any thoughts except for sadness.

01:18:01   Like, why can't, you know, is this the continuing tension between Apple's app

01:18:07   store policies and what third-party Mac software developers want or need to do to

01:18:14   maintain their business and is a difference of opinion about how the Mac

01:18:20   software business should work and third-party developers rely on upgrade

01:18:24   revenue and think it's a reasonable thing to do and Apple doesn't and now Apple's

01:18:28   trying to stop third-party developers from allowing Mac App Store customers to upgrade

01:18:34   to a non-Mac App Store version.

01:18:36   So the scheme that Omni had was like, "Hey, you bought our app on the Mac App Store.

01:18:40   You want the next incremental update, but you don't want to pay full price.

01:18:45   Just use this application that we have.

01:18:46   It will figure out that you purchased our previous version of our application from the

01:18:50   App Store and we'll give you upgrade pricing on purchasing the next version, not from the

01:18:54   App Store."

01:18:55   And Apple won't even allow that to happen.

01:18:57   They said, "Stop doing that."

01:18:59   Lots of people on Twitter were like, "Is that even legal?

01:19:01   Can they stop you from doing that?"

01:19:02   It's like proof of purchase.

01:19:03   Isn't there some sort of precedent case in law that you're allowed to do proof of purchase

01:19:08   type discounts from competitors or whatever?

01:19:10   Oh, this is the App Store.

01:19:11   There's no law.

01:19:12   Yeah, but the point is, who cares?

01:19:14   Unless you have the money to challenge Apple in court, which nobody does, basically, except

01:19:17   for maybe Adobe or Microsoft, neither of whom are in the Mac App Store anyway, it's a moot

01:19:23   point.

01:19:24   is being kind of jerky about it.

01:19:28   They're saying, "You don't like our store?

01:19:31   Fine.

01:19:32   Don't be in it.

01:19:33   And, by the way, don't try to do anything that involves our store like giving your customers

01:19:37   a discount."

01:19:38   And the argument—we talked about paid upgrades before—but the argument is, like some people

01:19:41   ask on Twitter, "Why should an upgrade be any cheaper than the original purchase?"

01:19:46   And as the Omni guys have explained on their site and in Twitter as well, it's like you

01:19:50   get more value from the first purchase of the program.

01:19:53   If you don't have a program and then you do, that's incredibly valuable.

01:19:57   And then when they upgrade the program to a fancy new version, that's an incremental

01:20:01   amount of value above the current one you have, but it's presumably not as big a value

01:20:05   as going from not having that program to have it.

01:20:07   So that's why upgrade prices should be cheaper than the initial purchase, because the initial

01:20:10   purchase has more value to you, and the upgrade has some value to you, but presumably not

01:20:16   as much as the entire application to begin with.

01:20:19   And Apple disagrees.

01:20:21   And so they don't have upgrade pricing in the store and this will continue to be an

01:20:26   annoying battle until this gets sorted out in some way.

01:20:29   And one way it can get sorted out is all Mac developers who have any desire to have upgrade

01:20:33   pricing leave the Mac App Store, but that's probably not going to happen.

01:20:38   Well, I just, I feel so bad for the Mac developers that I feel like they don't have a lot of

01:20:45   leverage unless they in mass leave the App Store, like you were saying.

01:20:50   So by themselves, they don't really have any leverage, and so they just have to deal with

01:20:55   it.

01:20:56   And that's really too bad.

01:20:57   And I wish that Apple, maybe they do care, but they give the outward appearance of not

01:21:02   caring about how this works for anyone but themselves.

01:21:06   And that's crummy.

01:21:07   And it's one of the ways that Apple really disappoints me.

01:21:10   Yeah, well, like we said the past time we discussed this, in theory they could care

01:21:15   about the customers because they think just a low price for everybody is better than upgrade

01:21:19   pricing because of lock-in and making it a more competitive market.

01:21:21   All those things we talked about in the past show.

01:21:27   The much less charitable opinion that many people expressed is, no, in reality, what

01:21:32   they want is for software to be free because they want there to be many attractive reasons

01:21:37   to buy their hardware.

01:21:39   They want software to be entirely commoditized and almost free and eliminate any company

01:21:43   that can't survive by giving away almost free software.

01:21:45   So if you need to charge 50 bucks to the first version and $10 upgrade pricing, you will

01:21:49   be eliminated by the company that can charge $15 for every single version year after year

01:21:54   and somehow stay in business.

01:21:56   That's sad.

01:21:57   It is sad.

01:22:00   Any other thoughts on that?

01:22:02   And then we have one more topic I want to try to squeeze in if we can.

01:22:05   Yeah, let's move on.

01:22:07   Buy Omnigraffle.

01:22:08   It's a good program.

01:22:09   They are not a sponsor of the show.

01:22:11   I just use it and like it.

01:22:13   And they deserve a break.

01:22:15   Alright, so how about Nokia or Nokia or whatever it's called?

01:22:18   I'm sure I'm sure we're pronouncing it wrong even now.

01:22:20   Surely we are.

01:22:21   Someone's gonna tell us.

01:22:22   Maybe it's, maybe we'll hear about it on Strateecory.

01:22:24   Yeah, I was really surprised to hear that was the correct pronunciation, but we're

01:22:28   already taking a turn for the boring.

01:22:30   So what do we think about this Nokia thing?

01:22:33   I don't see how this is really helping anyone, and it just smells of desperation to me.

01:22:38   Oh, it's helping somebody.

01:22:40   I think it's helping both of them.

01:22:43   Both companies.

01:22:44   Nokia because they get to save face kind of because they were going down down down and now it's like well

01:22:51   Not our problem anymore, you know

01:22:53   Microsoft bought it in the money. It's their fault that our phones didn't sell or whatever and Microsoft again if we get back to

01:23:00   discuss if they want to be a

01:23:03   Devices company according to like the Palmer plan before he was booted out if that's what they want to be

01:23:10   acquiring a hardware manufacturer is the logical next step. And the obvious one they would

01:23:16   acquire is the one they're already half in bed with, with their, you know, Microsoft

01:23:20   guy who went to be their CEO and this very intimate deal for them to make Windows phones

01:23:25   and widely acknowledge they should be making the best Windows phones. So yeah, that's

01:23:29   the one to buy. So now Microsoft has more hardware muscle to go along with its supposed

01:23:35   plan to become kind of like Apple and Google, Google wrapped into one.

01:23:39   >> Yeah, I think Ben Thompson, the author of "Shatikari," I think his theory is probably

01:23:44   the correct one, which is, you know, because Microsoft already had Nokia/Nakia, however

01:23:50   it's actually pronounced, they already had them kind of around their finger for a long

01:23:54   time, for the last few years, ever since ELOP was installed as CEO. And, you know, they

01:24:01   already had Nokia being their phone maker. They were making, was it exclusively Windows

01:24:07   Windows phone smartphones at this point?

01:24:09   Yeah, I think so.

01:24:10   Either way, close enough.

01:24:11   And they were making what most people considered very good hardware for Windows phone.

01:24:16   And so, you know, Microsoft was already kind of getting the milk for free there.

01:24:20   Well, I don't know if that's the same thing, though.

01:24:23   Well, it might not be.

01:24:24   But regardless, Ben Thompson's theory as to why this was necessary is that, you know,

01:24:32   Nokia was, by most people who were smarter than us

01:24:34   in this area, by most people's assessment,

01:24:38   Nokia was in severe financial problems.

01:24:41   They were possibly, on the verge of going bankrupt.

01:24:43   And there were also some rumors that maybe they

01:24:47   were considering just making Android phones,

01:24:50   just starting to use Android, just to get more market

01:24:53   share and more money coming in.

01:24:55   So if either of those were about to happen,

01:24:57   if Nokia was about to either go bankrupt

01:24:59   or start becoming an Android manufacturer,

01:25:02   that would give Microsoft a pretty big reason

01:25:04   to help them out and step in there

01:25:06   and get some more influence there.

01:25:09   Because if Nokia stopped making Windows phones,

01:25:13   who the heck would?

01:25:14   There's a handful of other manufacturers that make them,

01:25:17   and they're all terrible.

01:25:18   Nokia makes the only good ones.

01:25:20   And Microsoft still is fighting hard for-- well,

01:25:25   they're fighting for Windows Phone to still be a thing,

01:25:29   And they're not just going to give in and start

01:25:31   making Office for Android, which has a bunch of Nintendo

01:25:33   parallels that we don't have time to get to today.

01:25:35   But they're not going to do that.

01:25:39   Even if they should, they're probably not going to.

01:25:41   So Microsoft kind of had to do this.

01:25:45   Theoretically, if this is true, they kind of had to do this.

01:25:48   And it might have played a role in why Steve Ballmer has

01:25:50   been suddenly kicked out.

01:25:52   Like maybe Nokia would only agree to it

01:25:54   if ELOP became the next Microsoft CEO.

01:25:57   or maybe Ballmer opposed the idea and the board didn't. There's all sorts of possibilities

01:26:01   here, but I think that given what we've heard about Nokia's financial situation, that sounds

01:26:07   like a really plausible explanation for all this.

01:26:10   And really, if they want to be a company that makes awesome hardware and software together,

01:26:15   there is no getting around them making their own hardware. And they've got a taste for

01:26:18   it with the Surface, and even with the Zune and of course with the Xbox. It's not the

01:26:23   same when it's another company doing it.

01:26:27   Because that's the reason that Apple kept making better products in them for all those

01:26:30   years even though they were dominating them in the market, was that it was all in-house

01:26:34   in Apple.

01:26:35   And Microsoft somehow was trying to control a horse by a pair of reins or poking something

01:26:42   with a stick.

01:26:43   They could try to influence the people who made PCs, like please don't put crapware

01:26:47   on or try to strong-arm them by requiring, "If you want the Windows logo for Windows

01:26:52   You must include X Y and Z or you better put a sound chip on your things because we're embarrassed by the PC speaker

01:26:57   And you know they had some influence on all the people

01:27:00   But it's not the same as when it's you and so they'd see Apple like oh fine sure Apple can make awesome hardware because they

01:27:05   Can just put whatever the hell they want in there and sure Apple doesn't have all these crazy driver and support problems because they make

01:27:09   Seven machines they know exactly what they need to support

01:27:12   I think Microsoft's sick of that like it's been it's like fighting with one arm tied behind your back and so they need

01:27:18   hardware expertise and

01:27:21   This this could have been the perfect stormer like you know like Margot was saying that

01:27:25   If they didn't save these people all those beautiful

01:27:28   You know Lumiya phones would be gone, and if you're gonna buy someone anyway to help you make phones

01:27:33   Why would you not buy the company?

01:27:34   It's making currently making the best windows phones right so it makes sense from all those different perspectives like people are down on the deal

01:27:41   Just because they're like is this gonna be enough to save you

01:27:43   This is really gonna make a difference, or is this another one of your you know stupid deals that

01:27:50   You had to make and that doesn't end up changing Microsoft in any way

01:27:53   You know it seems like what's what is now let's say you know in six months from now

01:27:59   Everything's all settled and they they own this this massive division from Nokia that makes all their phones

01:28:06   And they can finally start releasing you know the next generation of

01:28:09   Microsoft Lumia phones because they bought the rights to use the the trademark Lumia

01:28:14   But not the trademark Nokia because they didn't actually buy all of Nokia. They only bought like their phone hardware division

01:28:19   So, suppose six months from now this is all in place and they release Windows Phone 8.5

01:28:27   or 9.0 or whatever it is on the new Microsoft Lumia, whatever.

01:28:32   What's different then compared to today?

01:28:35   What does this really change?

01:28:36   What does this enable besides just a continuation of the status quo, which was not working well?

01:28:41   What does this enable?

01:28:42   Well, it enables them to do the things that Apple does.

01:28:46   like say the next version of Windows Phone,

01:28:48   you know, Windows Phone 8.7,

01:28:49   or I don't know what the hell the version they're up to,

01:28:51   they want to do something with it,

01:28:53   and they say, okay, well, this version of Windows Phone

01:28:56   will only run on, because Microsoft's done this like crazy,

01:28:58   will only run on such and such hardware,

01:29:01   and they could even say it will only run

01:29:02   on this new hardware, and in fact,

01:29:04   we're gonna design this new hardware,

01:29:05   and we're going to custom pick the GPU

01:29:07   and the system on a chip,

01:29:08   and we'll build the entire thing as a unit,

01:29:10   kind of like we're building an Xbox,

01:29:11   with the hardware and software tied together

01:29:13   to work in perfect synergy

01:29:14   give us exactly the GPU features we want, exactly the clock speed, memories, and bus

01:29:18   sizes that we need to implement the software stack that we plan to implement in this OS

01:29:22   to make a match set.

01:29:24   Instead of saying, "We're going to make this OS, and this is the driver interface, and

01:29:29   we'll try to support your things, and maybe you should pick..."

01:29:31   They can make an integrated package that doesn't have to be like, "We make this over here,

01:29:36   you make this over there, and then we have meetings to work out our interfaces," because

01:29:38   you never end up with an optimal situation like that.

01:29:40   You want something as low-cost as possible that performs as well as possible in the smallest

01:29:46   amount of power.

01:29:47   And, you know, like, you want them to be a match set, exactly the same way that Apple

01:29:52   does with all its phones, like crazy, and like Microsoft does with the Xbox, where they

01:29:56   control the entire stack.

01:29:57   So that, I think, is the win that they're looking for.

01:30:00   It doesn't mean they have the competence to pull it off, but in theory, that was not possible

01:30:04   before and now it definitely is possible.

01:30:06   It's just up to them to pull it off.

01:30:08   Well, sort of.

01:30:09   My recollection of the original Windows Phone 7 specs were that the hardware specifications

01:30:15   were pretty specific. To your point, they weren't as specific as "Hey guys next door,

01:30:21   can you build exactly this?" But they were pretty darn specific and there wasn't a lot

01:30:25   of wiggle room.

01:30:26   But you couldn't iterate on it. They produced the spec and said, "You guys should build

01:30:31   this," and then they go off and build the thing. And they do still have leeway to pick

01:30:34   their own camera or pick their battery sizes or pick the materials or pick the screen technology

01:30:38   and stuff like that. Like, it's, when Apple designs, it's not like one team goes off and

01:30:43   says "Here's iOS 7, here's where the specs have to be," and then hands off a piece of

01:30:46   paper to the hardware guys and they build the phone. It's totally together. It's a process

01:30:50   moving in lockstep, iterating over and over again, like revising, revising. Instead of

01:30:54   "OS manufacturer makes a new OS, provides a spec sheet that says "To run this OS you

01:30:59   need this hardware." Even if the spec sheet they give you has no variability, it's not

01:31:04   the same as it having been designed all together and going through iterations.

01:31:08   Yeah, that's true. I mean, we'll see what happens. I mean, only time will tell. I thought

01:31:14   the good pieces that I read personally were both of Ben Thompson's. We've already talked

01:31:18   about one, and there's another that he himself actually has linked in the chat, which has

01:31:23   some talk about the, what is it, value something, value act, which I guess we're theorizing

01:31:31   has some play in some things going on in the board behind the scenes. Also, Horace's take

01:31:37   on it, which had a delightfully Casey trolling title, which I got to find. I think it was

01:31:43   like who bought whom or who is buying whom. Reading a quick blurb from that. So in a way,

01:31:52   an acquisition of priorities is almost a reverse acquisition. The acquired is actually "buying"

01:31:58   the acquirer. The acquired company's priorities and hence processes and resources become the

01:32:02   guiding principles in the acquirer. It's what happened when Apple bought Next and may

01:32:06   have happened when Disney bought Pixar. And whether or not you buy into the theory, I

01:32:11   thought it was a really interesting point.

01:32:12   We forgot the most important point, of course, which has been made by many other people online,

01:32:17   is that when you are in the hardware company, you don't get a $15 license fee for your

01:32:21   OS when they sell the phone. You can get like 300 bucks out of the $3,000 cell phone service

01:32:26   contract that you got. So you make a lot more profit when you sell. I mean, that's the obvious

01:32:30   thing that is going unsaid here, but it's worth mentioning.

01:32:33   Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm sure they wouldn't have even considered this possibility if that

01:32:38   wasn't on the table.

01:32:40   I mean, that doesn't make much of a difference if no one buys them. So I still think of it

01:32:42   from the perspective of, finally, you have a fighting chance of doing what Apple does.

01:32:50   Or what Samsung does, because even though it's like, well, Samsung doesn't control

01:32:53   the OS. It's like, well, they don't control it, but they kinda kinda...

01:32:57   I always wonder how many people Samsung has working on their Android OS, because it's

01:33:02   open source, and they customize their OS to various degrees, so they are more masters

01:33:07   of their fate than Nokia was, because I imagine that...

01:33:10   I don't know what the deal is, it's pretty incestuous between Microsoft, but I don't

01:33:13   know if Nokia previously had all the source to Windows Phone 7 and 8, and were able to

01:33:19   sort of customize it. I mean, I'm pretty sure they weren't allowed to customize it because

01:33:23   they said, "We want you to have the Windows Phone experience and don't change the UI to

01:33:27   be like the Motorola Sense skin or all those things that people do with Android."

01:33:33   So is that it? I guess. I can't think of anything less interesting,

01:33:38   to me at least, than trying to figure out in any more detail than what we've talked

01:33:42   about, trying to figure out what's going on with Microsoft and its board. The whole value

01:33:47   Act thing, that sounds really interesting when Ben Thompson writes about it.

01:33:51   I would hate to be trying to do more research on it, though.

01:33:54   Can you imagine having to dig through board stuff?

01:33:58   Ugh.

01:33:59   That probably is actually, I think, the board intrigue part and the politics part of it,

01:34:03   is the most interesting part of this entire deal, but has the least or perhaps the most

01:34:09   negative bearing on the success of the future companies.

01:34:12   It's interesting from a political, personal, you wonder what happened in kind of like Game

01:34:16   Thrones, right? But the more interesting that gets, the more it bodes ill for the

01:34:21   future of these companies, because if this deal is really about like who's

01:34:25   going to be CEO and backstabbing in acquisitions and whose star is rising

01:34:29   and falling in the corporate ranks, that is totally taking your eye off the ball

01:34:32   and you do not want any kind of drama like that, or at the very least you want

01:34:35   very intense and very brief drama leaving you to a new regime that, you

01:34:40   know, goes along smoothly. But this just looks like a gigantic mess over there in

01:34:44   in the boardrooms. And I'm so glad that we aren't there sitting through it all.

01:34:49   I do want to end with one quick thing, a tweet from Matthew Panzorino from a few days ago,

01:34:54   which I think hits the nail on the head. "Reality check, though. You and I as consumers can only

01:34:58   win if Microsoft and Nokia succeed. Competition only burns the crucible hotter and pure."

01:35:04   I think that's dead on. I know we've all said that many times, but if this does work out,

01:35:09   it makes Apple work that much harder and Google work that much harder and Samsung work that

01:35:14   much harder. So I do hope it works out, but it's going to be interesting.

01:35:18   If not for the Metro look, who would Apple have used for inspiration for iOS 7?

01:35:24   Exactly. Oh, God, that's such a minefield.

01:35:29   And on that note, on that bombshell... All right, let's wrap it up because we're

01:35:34   running long here, and we've got to get our sleep before next week's iPhone episode.

01:35:38   So thanks a lot to our two sponsors, Hover and Squarespace, and we'll see you next week.

01:35:43   week.

01:35:50   'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey

01:35:57   wouldn't let him 'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:36:07   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm And if you're into Twitter, you can follow

01:36:16   Follow them @CASEYLISS

01:36:21   So that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

01:36:25   Auntie Marco Arment, S-I-R-A-C

01:36:31   USA, Syracuse

01:36:33   It's accidental

01:36:36   They didn't mean to

01:36:39   Accidental

01:36:41   ♪ Check my cast so long ♪

01:36:44   - I'm just, I'm so excited to be playing with it every day.

01:36:49   Every time I see it automatically mounted on my desktop

01:36:51   and slowly and painfully get a time machine back up

01:36:54   and then go away.

01:36:54   (laughing)

01:36:55   I think, ooh, that's down there.

01:36:57   It's down there doing that stuff.

01:36:59   - It's down there doing that stuff.

01:37:01   Are we still talking about the Synology?

01:37:02   - That whole paragraph is a title.

01:37:04   (laughing)

01:37:05   - I'm so close to like getting a Mac Mini or something

01:37:07   to be a Plex thing connected to my TV.

01:37:09   I just need a fanless Mac Mini.

01:37:11   Alright, do we want to do titles real quick?

01:37:13   So, I like Computerized Garden Gnome.

01:37:15   Don't you think it's like a little garden gnome?

01:37:17   It's like a little statue.

01:37:19   I know what you're saying.

01:37:20   It looks like a robot. It's got a little light around it. It's cute.

01:37:22   [laughter]

01:37:24   I'm so happy that I just think of them down there.

01:37:26   The two of them sitting next to each other in my basement.

01:37:28   [laughter]

01:37:30   Like all in their own little UPS that's made just for them.

01:37:32   [laughter]

01:37:34   Oh my god.

01:37:36   Which one's Bert and which one's Ernie? Ugh, goodness.