The Accidental Tech Podcast

202: Something Has Gone Wrong


00:00:00   not only did we just talk last night [TS]

00:00:02   because we're recording this episode a [TS]

00:00:03   week ahead of time for the holiday break [TS]

00:00:05   it was barely yesterday [TS]

00:00:07   not only that but I've heard you guys in [TS]

00:00:08   my headphones all day with every last [TS]

00:00:11   night so fast I can get published today [TS]

00:00:13   I'm leaving town tomorrow right so yeah [TS]

00:00:16   that was so I basically it's like I'm [TS]

00:00:18   just living with you now which is kind [TS]

00:00:20   of cool what you know you you're my [TS]

00:00:21   friend so it works out well but yeah I [TS]

00:00:24   certainly have heard a lot of you in the [TS]

00:00:25   last twenty-four John Craig siracusa i [TS]

00:00:32   have received a hundred and fifty-eight [TS]

00:00:34   friggin emails today thanks to your [TS]

00:00:36   tweet yeah thanks a lot John first of [TS]

00:00:38   all I told you about that was gonna do [TS]

00:00:39   this and so you get a little yeah but [TS]

00:00:42   you never said that you were going to [TS]

00:00:43   solicit the speed back the freaking [TS]

00:00:45   email i was hoping you would be via [TS]

00:00:46   Twitter well so here I guess I told you [TS]

00:00:49   I was gonna listen to feedback marker [TS]

00:00:50   was like how we can do it five minutes [TS]

00:00:51   before but now you can do five minutes [TS]

00:00:53   for going to collect this stuff so what [TS]

00:00:54   I wanted to do was use this piece of [TS]

00:00:57   software called back channel it's like [TS]

00:00:58   back chandana NL which I thought was [TS]

00:01:01   like a domain and i'll just go to back [TS]

00:01:02   champs on Ellen and just use it right [TS]

00:01:04   they say what you like SurveyMonkey or [TS]

00:01:06   the million other places where you can [TS]

00:01:08   go to do some you know single-purpose [TS]

00:01:11   thing with the web app or i'll just [TS]

00:01:12   point people to a weird URL and say hey [TS]

00:01:14   go here and into your questions and less [TS]

00:01:15   people both the questions up you know [TS]

00:01:17   what I mean like with it what is this [TS]

00:01:19   URL bat ba ck c h KN Darnell Darnell but [TS]

00:01:25   it's not a URL like I thought it was a [TS]

00:01:26   URL because gonna take this doesn't work [TS]

00:01:28   what is actually is a software project [TS]

00:01:30   it's a PHP thing I think there's no way [TS]

00:01:32   I was gonna like install PHP thing who [TS]

00:01:34   would write but anyway I what I was [TS]

00:01:37   looking for is a simple way for people [TS]

00:01:38   to enter questions and other people to [TS]

00:01:40   vote them with some reasonable control [TS]

00:01:42   so cool she wouldn't do it because the [TS]

00:01:45   new ones for whatever number they wanted [TS]

00:01:47   the votes column and then we have to go [TS]

00:01:48   back through the history to see you did [TS]

00:01:49   it's all pointless read it would have [TS]

00:01:51   worked but we know how I feel about that [TS]

00:01:53   and so I said about short notice I'm [TS]

00:01:56   just gonna tweet it and we'll just use [TS]

00:01:59   the feedback form which will provide [TS]

00:02:00   some semblance of uniformity and that [TS]

00:02:04   we're hoping most of you I will come [TS]

00:02:05   through that and that people read all [TS]

00:02:08   the stuff that says we're going to read [TS]

00:02:09   your name on the air [TS]

00:02:10   blah blah blah and I think it worked out [TS]

00:02:12   pretty well what we'll find out how well [TS]

00:02:14   work tomorrow if they followed the very [TS]

00:02:16   important all caps instruction which was [TS]

00:02:18   today only tomorrow if we get another [TS]

00:02:21   hundred questions then you know well my [TS]

00:02:23   bad right now goodly that tweet [TS]

00:02:25   I'm telling you there's no dignity [TS]

00:02:27   actually this is a good idea people find [TS]

00:02:29   it like in three weeks and being still [TS]

00:02:31   be telling us things because it doesn't [TS]

00:02:33   want to start today [TS]

00:02:34   all right go to it that the only thing [TS]

00:02:36   you can do you do that is the smartest [TS]

00:02:38   thing [TS]

00:02:39   Marco I think you've ever said in your [TS]

00:02:40   entire life but then after after I [TS]

00:02:42   wanted him five or you should go with me [TS]

00:02:45   to pick up my m5 those are always good [TS]

00:02:47   with that but actually Tiffany got a new [TS]

00:02:50   car like an hour ago [TS]

00:02:51   oh really yeah it was like the lease was [TS]

00:02:53   up and we had we just got the same thing [TS]

00:02:55   again the 340g yeah i didn't i didn't [TS]

00:02:58   realize you'd actually ordered it I [TS]

00:02:59   remember you being in in conversation [TS]

00:03:00   with the dealer button [TS]

00:03:01   I didn't know you had pulled the trigger [TS]

00:03:02   the best thing about this i can finally [TS]

00:03:04   close like four browser tabs the best [TS]

00:03:06   feeling ever isn't it [TS]

00:03:08   oh yeah right John was that whole window [TS]

00:03:11   yeah the window with those tabs in it [TS]

00:03:13   uh-huh [TS]

00:03:14   hey I'm in the interest of full [TS]

00:03:15   disclosure I did go on a tacky like tour [TS]

00:03:17   tonight i have had a holiday gathering I [TS]

00:03:20   would not say I've had a holiday party [TS]

00:03:22   so just let me know that I have a small [TS]

00:03:24   holiday get-together on my desk as well [TS]

00:03:25   we'll see how this goes from Belgium I [TS]

00:03:28   had a glass of water in a dogfish al [TS]

00:03:31   class today I'll see you must be [TS]

00:03:33   hammered i was we were out of a [TS]

00:03:35   restaurant I guess all their cups for [TS]

00:03:36   Dogfish Head ale or whatever that [TS]

00:03:38   company is the marker likes the the beer [TS]

00:03:39   from ya dumb shit you know [TS]

00:03:41   yeah I don't have a sponsor the place or [TS]

00:03:43   whatever but yeah those were the water [TS]

00:03:45   glasses [TS]

00:03:46   you could at least got a sprite Joan and [TS]

00:03:47   I deleted that tweet so the world is [TS]

00:03:49   safe [TS]

00:03:50   thank you i'm looking at my red badge on [TS]

00:03:53   my ldap a hundred nine you damned yeah I [TS]

00:03:56   I got to be honest i have read almost [TS]

00:03:58   none of the questions that came in my [TS]

00:04:00   email because I've been I I've had such [TS]

00:04:02   a busy day that I didn't have time to [TS]

00:04:05   read a hundred and fifty knew him a [TS]

00:04:06   little but in addition to what i [TS]

00:04:07   normally get right we'll get to that [TS]

00:04:09   portion of the show eventually i will [TS]

00:04:10   really explain it or explain it as the [TS]

00:04:13   case may be it to both of you in the [TS]

00:04:15   audience let's get started so let's [TS]

00:04:17   start with some follow-up a friend of [TS]

00:04:19   the show Ryan Jones had [TS]

00:04:21   is corroborated what we had theorized on [TS]

00:04:23   the last episode he says no I'm quoting [TS]

00:04:26   airpot lightning port is exactly the [TS]

00:04:28   same as the iPhone port everybody chill [TS]

00:04:31   well you know the iphone 7 that shown in [TS]

00:04:33   this picture comes with the big fat [TS]

00:04:35   cable the covers over the whole thing [TS]

00:04:36   just like we discussed that show like [TS]

00:04:38   the fat one actually does cover it you [TS]

00:04:39   know em for the headphones anyway I [TS]

00:04:42   guess for the charging thing it doesn't [TS]

00:04:43   and I think it's a little bit more [TS]

00:04:45   noticeable on the air pots because [TS]

00:04:47   everything is all white shiny plastic [TS]

00:04:48   and you're plugging a white shiny [TS]

00:04:50   plastic thing into it and then it's just [TS]

00:04:51   a little bit poking out on a regular [TS]

00:04:52   iphone i imagine people have noticed [TS]

00:04:54   this before and you know that the ledges [TS]

00:04:56   poke out past the thing but of course [TS]

00:04:58   internet being what it is this picture [TS]

00:05:01   which many people have posted similar [TS]

00:05:03   things didn't stop people they said well [TS]

00:05:05   you know what that means that means the [TS]

00:05:07   iphone 7 must be USBC to change their [TS]

00:05:09   mind [TS]

00:05:10   you can't stop the conspiracy theorist [TS]

00:05:13   anyway it just looks like this is what [TS]

00:05:16   lighting parts look like people and [TS]

00:05:17   sometimes the plastic part doesn't [TS]

00:05:19   extend all into the end of the little [TS]

00:05:20   opening also i'd like to acknowledge [TS]

00:05:22   that we have we finished recording the [TS]

00:05:25   last episode 26 hours ago 25 hours ago [TS]

00:05:29   something like that and we did indeed [TS]

00:05:30   have one piece of follow-up amazing [TS]

00:05:33   well people are fast and it could've [TS]

00:05:34   been real-time follow-up if we were a [TS]

00:05:36   little bit you know this was 11 i guess [TS]

00:05:38   the post 1144 am today but I'm sure [TS]

00:05:41   somebody in the chatroom said this [TS]

00:05:43   during the thing we missed it [TS]

00:05:44   indeed alright moving on are we going to [TS]

00:05:48   talk i guess [TS]

00:05:49   gianmarco you really want to talk about [TS]

00:05:51   the mark harmon article don't you [TS]

00:05:53   so do you everybody does who doesn't I [TS]

00:05:55   slightly do alright let me sit back and [TS]

00:05:59   get comfortable may be invited to [TS]

00:06:00   another party here right [TS]

00:06:02   alright let's get started so mark urman [TS]

00:06:05   wrote a post on Bloomberg which is [TS]

00:06:08   obviously works now why it's entitled [TS]

00:06:10   how Apple alienated Mac loyalists and [TS]

00:06:13   whether or not you agree with the [TS]

00:06:17   premise of the article whether or not [TS]

00:06:19   you like the article the premise of the [TS]

00:06:21   article is you know if you look at the [TS]

00:06:23   situation here [TS]

00:06:25   the mac is kind of an also-ran it's kind [TS]

00:06:28   of a it's it's the tag along in in [TS]

00:06:32   Apple's portfolio and it's becoming more [TS]

00:06:35   and more clear that it's of less [TS]

00:06:38   importance to apple than it ever has [TS]

00:06:40   been in the past and there's some [TS]

00:06:43   interesting factoids which i'm sure [TS]

00:06:45   we'll get into about why the mac does it [TS]

00:06:49   does not matter there's some interesting [TS]

00:06:52   facts that actually may not be accurate [TS]

00:06:54   as told to us by some little birdies [TS]

00:06:57   about whether or not the software teams [TS]

00:07:00   were realigned or or misaligned or just [TS]

00:07:04   generally differently aligned in in the [TS]

00:07:06   effort to make the things for the mac [TS]

00:07:09   better or worse it's an interesting [TS]

00:07:11   article and it is worth reading [TS]

00:07:13   i am i'm not sure what to make of it but [TS]

00:07:16   but i'm curious to hear what the two of [TS]

00:07:20   you have to say so since I've learned [TS]

00:07:23   from the last episode let's start with [TS]

00:07:25   john-john what you think about this now [TS]

00:07:28   you don't together for this one [TS]

00:07:30   particular topic [TS]

00:07:31   yeah i think it's like one there's only [TS]

00:07:33   one piece of new ish rumor going to send [TS]

00:07:36   you information but they are no new [TS]

00:07:38   information new rumor the that's the [TS]

00:07:40   only thing as far as I can recall having [TS]

00:07:42   read this thing up let's go now that was [TS]

00:07:44   in there and that was the story about [TS]

00:07:45   how the new macbook pros one of the [TS]

00:07:49   things that that Apple looked into is [TS]

00:07:50   having differently shaped batteries to [TS]

00:07:53   basically find find more places to shop [TS]

00:07:55   battery in the thing and it doesn't mean [TS]

00:07:57   that the same as the scalp batteries [TS]

00:07:59   because that would make sense because [TS]

00:07:59   it's not it's not tapered but instead of [TS]

00:08:02   just having a couple rectangles have [TS]

00:08:03   been to the nice rectangle parts having [TS]

00:08:05   more oddly shaped batteries they can [TS]

00:08:07   fill more nooks and crannies with [TS]

00:08:08   battery and that didn't work out for [TS]

00:08:11   whatever reason according to this [TS]

00:08:12   article and so they went with the more [TS]

00:08:14   boring shape battery which meant less [TS]

00:08:16   battery richmond less battery life and [TS]

00:08:19   that's a new presentation of some [TS]

00:08:21   information [TS]

00:08:22   literally everything else in this [TS]

00:08:24   article i think is just a summary and [TS]

00:08:28   reiteration of all of [TS]

00:08:31   the cranky mac users stuff that has been [TS]

00:08:34   going on the internet and on this [TS]

00:08:35   podcast for a long period including the [TS]

00:08:39   bit that a lot of people i think that [TS]

00:08:41   was in the parking lot of people are [TS]

00:08:42   going on like that Apple is this article [TS]

00:08:44   the apple doesn't have a dedicated macro [TS]

00:08:46   base group anymore it yes it says about [TS]

00:08:49   about software at least not about [TS]

00:08:50   hardware right I'm and that's unless I'm [TS]

00:08:53   missing some detail that is not in this [TS]

00:08:55   article and again it would help if this [TS]

00:08:57   article acknowledge the thing about to [TS]

00:08:58   say and clarified it for me but Apple [TS]

00:09:01   unified software under Craig a long time [TS]

00:09:05   ago like there used to be someone who [TS]

00:09:07   are in iOS and someone who ran Makka [TS]

00:09:09   what was then called Mac os10 and [TS]

00:09:11   eventually I was 10 and mac OS those [TS]

00:09:13   were separate and then they were [TS]

00:09:14   combined right and so it's not that's [TS]

00:09:16   not news [TS]

00:09:17   now if they mean okay so that happened [TS]

00:09:19   but now i actually really even within [TS]

00:09:21   the organization there's not a [TS]

00:09:22   bifurcation I think the article should [TS]

00:09:24   have acknowledged the past thing and [TS]

00:09:25   said now I know what you're thinking [TS]

00:09:26   didn't they already do that when they [TS]

00:09:27   put Craig federighi tried everything [TS]

00:09:29   no even then they were still to separate [TS]

00:09:31   the gardens and say that so I don't know [TS]

00:09:34   quite what to think that'd be the way I [TS]

00:09:35   don't see that as a big deal because [TS]

00:09:36   unifying all software and all OS efforts [TS]

00:09:39   under a single group makes sense to me [TS]

00:09:42   more than having them be walled off from [TS]

00:09:44   each other because the core OS is [TS]

00:09:46   essentially the same plus or minus you [TS]

00:09:48   know differences needed for each [TS]

00:09:49   individual platform and there's so much [TS]

00:09:51   here between them and so many api's and [TS]

00:09:53   things that go between them like the [TS]

00:09:54   extension mechanism xbc and just that it [TS]

00:09:57   makes perfect sense to not have them [TS]

00:09:59   walled off into like this is the iOS [TS]

00:10:01   group and this is the Mac os10 group and [TS]

00:10:02   occasionally they cooperate so I don't [TS]

00:10:04   see that as a particular newsworthy [TS]

00:10:07   either and i also don't understand what [TS]

00:10:09   it means that most of the team's iOS [TS]

00:10:10   first I mean they're working on iOS i [TS]

00:10:12   can imagine there are more people [TS]

00:10:13   working on it because it is the more [TS]

00:10:14   important operating system is also the [TS]

00:10:16   younger bond and that has the hardware [TS]

00:10:19   the changes that is changing the most [TS]

00:10:20   and you know like but what does it mean [TS]

00:10:22   to be iOS vs if the entire most of them [TS]

00:10:25   are iOS first I don't know that this not [TS]

00:10:29   enough information to get worked up [TS]

00:10:30   about and so unless there's some other [TS]

00:10:33   nuance that were missing here that [TS]

00:10:34   wasn't included the article i'm going to [TS]

00:10:36   say yeah so the groups are combined [TS]

00:10:37   that's fine and that [TS]

00:10:38   not a big deal i'll let Marco say what [TS]

00:10:42   he thinks about this first but there is [TS]

00:10:43   one reason i wanted to talk about this [TS]

00:10:45   that is doesn't have to do with the [TS]

00:10:48   specifics of the article except to say [TS]

00:10:49   that this is a thing now that every [TS]

00:10:51   publication feels like they need to have [TS]

00:10:53   a mac malaise article where they talk [TS]

00:10:55   about either cranky mac users or Apple [TS]

00:10:58   failing those mac users or both and some [TS]

00:11:00   story about how the mac is fading and [TS]

00:11:02   stuff like that so that is the season [TS]

00:11:04   for that kind of article and this was [TS]

00:11:06   sure one of them [TS]

00:11:07   yeah i mean i honestly don't have a lot [TS]

00:11:10   to say about this specific article i do [TS]

00:11:12   obviously as we all know have a lot to [TS]

00:11:14   say about the topic of the state of the [TS]

00:11:17   mac and and apple seemingly neglecting [TS]

00:11:20   things that I care about but I this [TS]

00:11:23   particular article as is typical with [TS]

00:11:26   Markham articles contains a few solid [TS]

00:11:29   new you know stated facts whether to [TS]

00:11:31   regard we don't know but stated as fact [TS]

00:11:33   you know if you knew information bits [TS]

00:11:35   but then this whole narrative around it [TS]

00:11:38   that is questionable and and of a lot [TS]

00:11:41   less credibility you know German has [TS]

00:11:44   very good sources for facts but he often [TS]

00:11:48   gets the story and the narrative wrong [TS]

00:11:51   or the reasons wrong so we have to take [TS]

00:11:54   everything that everything in this [TS]

00:11:56   that's about reasons or people's [TS]

00:11:59   feelings or what they you know what they [TS]

00:12:01   think or whatever why do things take all [TS]

00:12:04   that with a grain of salt because that [TS]

00:12:06   you know that could all be completely [TS]

00:12:08   bogus or at least misleading or or not [TS]

00:12:11   are missing some kind of subtle [TS]

00:12:12   distinction or detail so what we have to [TS]

00:12:16   work with here you know john darnell it [TS]

00:12:18   like there's not a lot of new stuff here [TS]

00:12:20   and and then the stuff that is new like [TS]

00:12:22   that they tried potentially terrorist [TS]

00:12:24   batteries in the 20 2016 9 macbook pro [TS]

00:12:27   yeah it's not that interesting if they [TS]

00:12:30   would a cram but more battery into it [TS]

00:12:32   would have been heavier batteries are [TS]

00:12:34   heavy empty gaps around the square [TS]

00:12:37   batteries are very lightweight so if the [TS]

00:12:40   if they would have like one of the [TS]

00:12:43   reasons this laptop is so pleasant to [TS]

00:12:45   use is that it is noticeably lighter [TS]

00:12:47   than the previous one if it was less [TS]

00:12:50   lighter than the previous one [TS]

00:12:52   then it wouldn't be as good of an update [TS]

00:12:55   so that's kind of a non-story with that [TS]

00:12:58   they tried these different battery in it [TS]

00:13:01   and you know they tried lots of things [TS]

00:13:03   and there's a reason why not everything [TS]

00:13:05   ships and you know that that isn't that [TS]

00:13:06   important that was another one of the [TS]

00:13:08   stories they had was about the macbook [TS]

00:13:09   that they had a bigger one and everyone [TS]

00:13:11   and they want the skinny one but like [TS]

00:13:12   but again the conclusion like you know [TS]

00:13:14   they you know they picked the latter one [TS]

00:13:16   and then you know the the engineers have [TS]

00:13:19   less time to figure out how to cram all [TS]

00:13:20   the electronics into the thin one like [TS]

00:13:22   the idea that they did the the way the [TS]

00:13:24   companies working is trying bunch of [TS]

00:13:26   different approaches then eventually [TS]

00:13:27   pick one and then the the narrative that [TS]

00:13:29   just leaves the engineer scrambling to [TS]

00:13:31   get the final one done like welcome to [TS]

00:13:33   apple yeah that approach that I've [TS]

00:13:35   trying multiple ideas IIIi first I don't [TS]

00:13:38   think its new look underneath all jony [TS]

00:13:40   ive's black cloths and as things got [TS]

00:13:41   tons of you know that right tons of [TS]

00:13:43   stuff and then eventually pick one and [TS]

00:13:45   there's lots of time pressure to do and [TS]

00:13:46   so on and so forth but I'm it again if [TS]

00:13:49   you're going to make this argument you [TS]

00:13:51   have to add more has to be like this is [TS]

00:13:54   a thing you know in the past they did X [TS]

00:13:57   and the results were why now they're [TS]

00:13:59   doing Z and the results are cute like [TS]

00:14:01   that you need need something to tie [TS]

00:14:02   together instead of just saying they did [TS]

00:14:04   this thing and this is what happened [TS]

00:14:05   yeah is that any different than [TS]

00:14:07   literally every other piece of hardware [TS]

00:14:09   they made in the past 10 years or is it [TS]

00:14:11   the same the articles and saying one way [TS]

00:14:14   or the other were led to believe this is [TS]

00:14:15   a nefarious terrible thing that two [TS]

00:14:17   possible approaches to a product we're [TS]

00:14:18   done one of them didn't work out they [TS]

00:14:19   picked one and then it was a it was a [TS]

00:14:21   difficult task to get that one done in [TS]

00:14:23   time were led to believe that is a sign [TS]

00:14:25   that I don't know that they don't care [TS]

00:14:27   about the mac i mean if anything they [TS]

00:14:28   care about Marcus they're doing twice [TS]

00:14:30   the work and throwing half of it away is [TS]

00:14:31   I don't know it's the article so [TS]

00:14:33   confused [TS]

00:14:34   yeah I I feel like I feel like German [TS]

00:14:36   really he got a few good fact and he [TS]

00:14:39   really wanted to tell this story and so [TS]

00:14:42   he he kind of shoved the fact into the [TS]

00:14:45   story he wanted to tell but it doesn't [TS]

00:14:47   all make good sense it is not you know [TS]

00:14:49   it isn't it isn't a great fit in some [TS]

00:14:51   cases and and it's honestly you know not [TS]

00:14:54   to pick on government too much because [TS]

00:14:55   pretty much every journalist I've ever [TS]

00:14:58   had any dealings with has done exactly [TS]

00:15:00   the same kind of thing you know the game [TS]

00:15:02   the story is usually decided up front [TS]

00:15:04   and the fact [TS]

00:15:05   found supported and you know I have my [TS]

00:15:08   own theory about what the narrative is [TS]

00:15:10   for the the problems that the mac is [TS]

00:15:12   having inside of apple and a lot of it [TS]

00:15:14   lines up with this so like I i want to [TS]

00:15:16   agree with this I want to believe it but [TS]

00:15:18   the fact is there's very few facts here [TS]

00:15:20   to support the story and especially very [TS]

00:15:23   few new facts so the larger point I [TS]

00:15:26   wanted to make about this whole topic is [TS]

00:15:29   something I keep in mind every time we [TS]

00:15:30   discuss it and and in general is I don't [TS]

00:15:34   think about it before [TS]

00:15:35   imagine for a second that [TS]

00:15:39   well we fast-forward 20 years and look [TS]

00:15:43   back and realize that what's actually [TS]

00:15:44   happening during this period is that pc [TS]

00:15:48   and desktop computing is slowly fading [TS]

00:15:51   away as a thing if you are a fan of that [TS]

00:15:56   type of thing as we are during the time [TS]

00:15:59   when it was fading away i'm not sure it [TS]

00:16:02   would feel any differently than we feel [TS]

00:16:05   about Apple doing this stuff now and I [TS]

00:16:07   can we can we tell the difference [TS]

00:16:09   between Apple not prioritizing the mac [TS]

00:16:13   and that being the wrong thing to do and [TS]

00:16:17   us being you know indignant and angry [TS]

00:16:20   and telling Apple you should be doing [TS]

00:16:22   this but you're doing that instead and [TS]

00:16:24   you're making a mistake and it's really [TS]

00:16:25   important for you to this role these [TS]

00:16:27   reasons you know someone so forth the [TS]

00:16:28   kind of like why Apple should have a mac [TS]

00:16:30   pro which I wrote a thing about a sort [TS]

00:16:32   of Marco recently and you know what what [TS]

00:16:34   the needs of our users are over it i [TS]

00:16:38   don't think it would feel any different [TS]

00:16:39   from our perspective if we're right or [TS]

00:16:42   if you're wrong [TS]

00:16:43   like it feels the same either way and I [TS]

00:16:45   and I keep that in mind because it's [TS]

00:16:47   like I mean doesn't really change i feel [TS]

00:16:49   i still wish they would pay more [TS]

00:16:50   attention to the mac but every once in a [TS]

00:16:52   while I have a moment of clarity and say [TS]

00:16:53   well say Apple is doing exactly the [TS]

00:16:56   right thing and we are yelling and [TS]

00:16:59   screaming and trying to tell them to do [TS]

00:17:00   the wrong thing I don't it's difficult [TS]

00:17:04   for me to like to distinguish those two [TS]

00:17:06   scenarios and out i mostly disagree that [TS]

00:17:09   they are doing the right thing I think [TS]

00:17:10   they're doing the wrong thing but [TS]

00:17:11   something is not for a second the other [TS]

00:17:13   part i take you know set that thought [TS]

00:17:15   experiment leave it over there and then [TS]

00:17:18   say okay [TS]

00:17:18   let's say Apple is right and this is a [TS]

00:17:21   technology that the product in a style [TS]

00:17:24   of working and everything is fading from [TS]

00:17:25   view it will die with us because we're [TS]

00:17:27   at last group of people who ever going [TS]

00:17:28   to care about this crap and actually the [TS]

00:17:30   right thing travel to do is to get rid [TS]

00:17:32   of it in that case I still have one more [TS]

00:17:34   thing left to complain about Apple [TS]

00:17:36   playing complain to apple about and [TS]

00:17:38   that's that if that if they really [TS]

00:17:40   believe that they should be honest about [TS]

00:17:42   it they should they should hasten the [TS]

00:17:45   transition they shouldn't string us [TS]

00:17:47   along with a series of platitudes like [TS]

00:17:49   we talked about last time like we've got [TS]

00:17:51   great desktops and the imac is the best [TS]

00:17:52   desktop are really dedicated to the mac [TS]

00:17:54   and we love the mac and i think it's [TS]

00:17:56   complicated by the fact that apple [TS]

00:17:57   doesn't speak with one voice it is a you [TS]

00:17:58   know especially after jobs is gone it's [TS]

00:18:01   a company made up of a bunch of people [TS]

00:18:02   and I think there are people inside [TS]

00:18:04   Apple probably phil schiller probably [TS]

00:18:07   even Craig very who feel the same way [TS]

00:18:08   about the mac is we do only they're [TS]

00:18:10   inside the company right so when they [TS]

00:18:12   make statements like oh we think the mac [TS]

00:18:13   is really important and we're really [TS]

00:18:15   dedicated to the mac and blah blah i [TS]

00:18:17   think that's the truth then they believe [TS]

00:18:19   it right and to the extent of their [TS]

00:18:21   power exists inside Apple they're trying [TS]

00:18:23   to make that happen but it could be that [TS]

00:18:26   opinion is not universal throughout the [TS]

00:18:29   company and may not be the position that [TS]

00:18:31   eventually win so we end up with this a [TS]

00:18:34   company that perhaps is it has rightly [TS]

00:18:36   like in the worst-case scenario for us [TS]

00:18:37   that the company has rightly seeing that [TS]

00:18:40   this this product in this way of [TS]

00:18:43   computing is a relic and it needs to go [TS]

00:18:45   away but instead of saying that instead [TS]

00:18:48   of saying like i said last time instead [TS]

00:18:50   of saying I laptop to the future there's [TS]

00:18:51   no more desktops and the mac is going to [TS]

00:18:53   be no more pretty soon it's a legacy [TS]

00:18:55   platform as many of the scary articles [TS]

00:18:56   have said the future is iOS we know this [TS]

00:19:00   painful but it's going to happen sorry [TS]

00:19:02   instead of saying that every time [TS]

00:19:04   there's any crankiness about it from [TS]

00:19:07   their customers they say reassuring [TS]

00:19:09   things they say all don't worry like i [TS]

00:19:12   know it seems like we don't care but we [TS]

00:19:14   totally do it super important we love [TS]

00:19:15   the mac blah blah blah and then they [TS]

00:19:18   proceeded to you know their actions [TS]

00:19:19   don't back that up big time and again [TS]

00:19:21   their actions you know give us something [TS]

00:19:23   throw a little crumb our way and then [TS]

00:19:26   leave us hanging early know that the mac [TS]

00:19:28   pro the trash can like they did this [TS]

00:19:30   amazing [TS]

00:19:31   and then left saying for three years and [TS]

00:19:34   now we're not getting much of anything [TS]

00:19:36   from the mac these days very far less [TS]

00:19:39   frequent updates updates that are in a [TS]

00:19:42   satisfying traditional mac users and we [TS]

00:19:44   just get some you know random platitude [TS]

00:19:48   so I i think that even if we are [TS]

00:19:51   dinosaurs and we are the last generation [TS]

00:19:53   of people thats ever going to care about [TS]

00:19:55   this type of computing and it will fade [TS]

00:19:57   away with us [TS]

00:19:58   apple is not handling it the right way [TS]

00:20:01   and if it turns out that actually this [TS]

00:20:03   way of computing is not going away [TS]

00:20:05   the temple is definitely not hailing the [TS]

00:20:06   right way as discussed many times in the [TS]

00:20:08   past but anyway that's that's the point [TS]

00:20:11   I want to make all this type of articles [TS]

00:20:12   is that if like us you are upset about [TS]

00:20:14   the mac you always have to think that it [TS]

00:20:17   could be that you are relatively you are [TS]

00:20:20   the apple to user saying the mac is [TS]

00:20:22   never gonna be the future you can't get [TS]

00:20:23   real work done on the mac apple to [TS]

00:20:24   forever right or any other thing you can [TS]

00:20:27   paint over any other analogy buggy-whip [TS]

00:20:29   salesman you know horse vs. automobile [TS]

00:20:32   whatever whatever you wanna even radio [TS]

00:20:35   vs television you know movies i put that [TS]

00:20:38   you know the internet vs everything that [TS]

00:20:39   came before it basically sometimes [TS]

00:20:42   you're in that group that is being left [TS]

00:20:44   behind and if if you are it looks and [TS]

00:20:48   feels exactly the same as if the whole [TS]

00:20:52   rest of the world is doing something [TS]

00:20:52   terribly wrong you're the only one who [TS]

00:20:54   knows about it and unfortunately it's [TS]

00:20:56   difficult to say which way which way [TS]

00:20:58   things are going to go until later so [TS]

00:20:59   five years from now 10 years from now I [TS]

00:21:02   think we'll have much more clarity about [TS]

00:21:04   you know what it whether whether we [TS]

00:21:08   ended up being right or wrong but either [TS]

00:21:09   way right now I think making apple is [TS]

00:21:11   Miss handling things in one direction or [TS]

00:21:13   another so John as somebody who was at [TS]

00:21:18   one point a ipod touch devotee g when [TS]

00:21:24   did you when did you know that that was [TS]

00:21:26   not the right way forward when did you [TS]

00:21:29   know that the ipod touch was not the [TS]

00:21:31   right device for you anymore [TS]

00:21:32   i mean i-i think it was more than just [TS]

00:21:34   you not wanting to pay for more [TS]

00:21:36   expensive cell phone cell phone plan [TS]

00:21:37   right so at what point did you say you [TS]

00:21:40   know what the ipod touch is not long for [TS]

00:21:41   this world or alternatively it's not [TS]

00:21:45   satisfying my needs and it's time to get [TS]

00:21:47   an iphone because I feel like that's a [TS]

00:21:49   similar situation right like you seem to [TS]

00:21:52   have been on the wrong side of that and [TS]

00:21:55   it seems like the writer answer is to be [TS]

00:21:57   an iphone person rather than an iPod [TS]

00:21:59   Touch person now apples on the wrong [TS]

00:22:01   side of that one hears that the that [TS]

00:22:04   situation it's not like I wasn't [TS]

00:22:07   changing from the Apple to the back or [TS]

00:22:10   from the mac to an iOS device the ipod [TS]

00:22:13   touch is an iphone minus the phone part [TS]

00:22:16   like it's the same westroads the same [TS]

00:22:17   experience it's not it's not a different [TS]

00:22:19   is not different platform is not a [TS]

00:22:20   different paradigm is not even form [TS]

00:22:22   factor but it's basically the same exact [TS]

00:22:24   thing now Apple did stop updating it to [TS]

00:22:27   keep pace with the phone stuff but that [TS]

00:22:29   was so easy to make that switch was like [TS]

00:22:31   I'm not even changing anything like it [TS]

00:22:33   it's literally the same thing only now [TS]

00:22:34   there's a phone in it right and it's [TS]

00:22:36   just faster and it's nicer and so that [TS]

00:22:39   was that was an easy thing to make the [TS]

00:22:40   reason I think Apple was wrong is [TS]

00:22:42   because that's not a transition there's [TS]

00:22:43   no there's no transition from ipod touch [TS]

00:22:46   to iphone that Apple needed to make that [TS]

00:22:47   need to get like the dinosaurs off of [TS]

00:22:49   the you know the old platform and it's [TS]

00:22:51   the same freaking thing they just [TS]

00:22:52   decided that it wasn't as important and [TS]

00:22:54   well I don't want to say they're wrong [TS]

00:22:56   because they're probably right in terms [TS]

00:22:57   of volume because i'd probably sell way [TS]

00:22:58   more phones and those things who cares [TS]

00:23:00   whatever but i want to say about them [TS]

00:23:02   being wrong is there was no strictly [TS]

00:23:04   speaking there was no strategic reason [TS]

00:23:06   to migrate people off the ipod touch [TS]

00:23:10   because it's not like a legacy platform [TS]

00:23:12   it is the current platform it runs the [TS]

00:23:14   current version of the OS it is it is [TS]

00:23:17   getting people into the iOS ecosystem [TS]

00:23:19   there's nothing about it that is counter [TS]

00:23:21   to their broad strategy it's just you [TS]

00:23:24   know doesn't sell as much and that they [TS]

00:23:25   can justify the investment being updated [TS]

00:23:27   or whatever so in that respect they're [TS]

00:23:28   probably right but in terms of like [TS]

00:23:30   having done the opposite they would not [TS]

00:23:32   have been making a strategic mistake [TS]

00:23:33   they just update that in lockstep with [TS]

00:23:35   the rest of the iphones like they had [TS]

00:23:37   done before everything would be fine [TS]

00:23:38   they would be selling anymore ipod [TS]

00:23:40   touches their ipod touch customers may [TS]

00:23:42   be a little bit happier know about buddy [TS]

00:23:46   buddy buddy you're right that is the one [TS]

00:23:48   similarity that has is when they stopped [TS]

00:23:51   updating it frequently enough and when I [TS]

00:23:53   saw that if I really want the fastest [TS]

00:23:55   iOS device available or anything even [TS]

00:23:57   the ball [TS]

00:23:57   park the only choice that has an iphone [TS]

00:23:59   that's when I had to switch and like I [TS]

00:24:02   said it was easy because it's the same [TS]

00:24:03   it's the same thing as the same platform [TS]

00:24:05   it's the same software everything turned [TS]

00:24:07   off so market what do you think about [TS]

00:24:08   all this i mean you've been stunningly [TS]

00:24:10   quiet I i know you have some thoughts [TS]

00:24:12   here so late on me and I almost don't [TS]

00:24:15   know where to begin at that it's like [TS]

00:24:16   pick up i also don't care you know two [TS]

00:24:19   graphs of the I about the ipod touch but [TS]

00:24:21   but the whole story about about what's [TS]

00:24:24   going on with the mac I care very very [TS]

00:24:26   much about its it's hard to know where [TS]

00:24:30   to start so forgive me if this [TS]

00:24:31   disorganized like most of what i say [TS]

00:24:33   what bothers me about the discussion [TS]

00:24:37   around this and about seemingly a [TS]

00:24:39   position on this by they're mostly in [TS]

00:24:42   action around a lot of the mac product [TS]

00:24:43   line and the mac OS honestly is that you [TS]

00:24:48   know it's to pull up the old Steve Jobs [TS]

00:24:50   truck analogy which it's not an [TS]

00:24:52   amazingly fitting analogy because you [TS]

00:24:55   know cars and trucks are not computers [TS]

00:24:57   and phones like that's that's not it [TS]

00:24:59   doesn't fit incredibly well but there's [TS]

00:25:01   enough parallels with what he was saying [TS]

00:25:03   that that I think it's worth really [TS]

00:25:08   going out for a second in trying to [TS]

00:25:10   explain how I feel the way I feel as a [TS]

00:25:12   as a not only as a Mac user but as a mac [TS]

00:25:16   pro user really Apple is like the only [TS]

00:25:20   manufacturer in the world of decent [TS]

00:25:23   trucks and they discovered a few years [TS]

00:25:26   ago that cars are more profitable and so [TS]

00:25:30   they've decided you know what we're just [TS]

00:25:32   hardly gonna update trucks anymore and [TS]

00:25:34   we're just gonna not make the biggest [TS]

00:25:36   ones anymore and you know most people [TS]

00:25:39   don't need the biggest ones but some [TS]

00:25:41   people do and what if it takes 20 years [TS]

00:25:44   to develop a good truck making company [TS]

00:25:47   so I i know this analogy is being [TS]

00:25:50   stretched to hell and it is like long [TS]

00:25:53   God and I'm abusing the crap out of it [TS]

00:25:55   however Apple is abandoning parts of the [TS]

00:26:00   market for which there is no substitute [TS]

00:26:03   for what Apple has been making and if [TS]

00:26:05   there are abandoning it the neglecting [TS]

00:26:07   it and they might be abandoning it soon [TS]

00:26:10   and everyone says you know the the Apple [TS]

00:26:14   excuse errs who here discussion about [TS]

00:26:16   this often respond with [TS]

00:26:18   well they're doing is not making [TS]

00:26:20   computers for you or this product just [TS]

00:26:22   isn't for you anymore they don't care to [TS]

00:26:24   satisfy your needs anymore but to some [TS]

00:26:28   degree like it isn't that simple because [TS]

00:26:30   these needs will continue to exist like [TS]

00:26:33   people who who need max period to do [TS]

00:26:37   their work and people who need high-end [TS]

00:26:39   max also know or certain like you know [TS]

00:26:42   high-end software and hardware needs [TS]

00:26:44   those needs continue whether Apple feels [TS]

00:26:48   like addressing them or not but if Apple [TS]

00:26:50   has been addressing them all these years [TS]

00:26:52   and then stops that leaves those people [TS]

00:26:55   really screwed like with nothing because [TS]

00:26:58   it isn't usually a simple as jumping to [TS]

00:27:01   windows like unless unless what you do [TS]

00:27:04   is as i described you know what about [TS]

00:27:05   the service studio got two episodes ago [TS]

00:27:07   you know if what you do is primarily [TS]

00:27:09   like in in one adobe creative suite app [TS]

00:27:12   or something like that where like it's [TS]

00:27:13   it's an app available on both platforms [TS]

00:27:15   and that's most of what you do you know [TS]

00:27:18   for for your computer needs for that [TS]

00:27:19   computer whatever like if they took a [TS]

00:27:21   workstation or if it's a studio computer [TS]

00:27:23   whatever that's a different story but [TS]

00:27:25   for people who can only use the whole OS [TS]

00:27:27   and you know integrated ways multiple [TS]

00:27:29   software package maybe software that's [TS]

00:27:30   only available on that OS you can't just [TS]

00:27:33   like I'll just start using windows like [TS]

00:27:34   no it isn't that simple and there's a [TS]

00:27:36   lot of like investment both in not only [TS]

00:27:39   software that you buy but also like [TS]

00:27:41   they're ready custom software that is [TS]

00:27:43   developed for this OS that doesn't exist [TS]

00:27:45   on the other OS or if your developer [TS]

00:27:48   like you've built your software library [TS]

00:27:51   your codebase your customer base all on [TS]

00:27:54   this OS so jump just tell people just [TS]

00:27:58   use windows like that's not a great [TS]

00:27:59   answer if Apple stops addressing a [TS]

00:28:02   market in many cases those people are [TS]

00:28:05   just completely out of luck and they're [TS]

00:28:08   there seems to be this like it's like [TS]

00:28:11   design virus like it's that this kind of [TS]

00:28:15   like cult of saying no as a feature and [TS]

00:28:19   it's almost as though like when when [TS]

00:28:21   people back you know back when like [TS]

00:28:23   Samsung first [TS]

00:28:24   I started really ripping off apple [TS]

00:28:25   heavily that is steve was still alive [TS]

00:28:28   for that part the way people rip off [TS]

00:28:30   apple would basically be like to look at [TS]

00:28:32   some kind of superficial quality that [TS]

00:28:34   Apple products have like oh everything [TS]

00:28:36   is like rounded and has blue you know [TS]

00:28:40   bulbous colors on whatever and it has no [TS]

00:28:42   you know it removes ports or whatever [TS]

00:28:45   like they would they would take some [TS]

00:28:46   kind of super quality and just apply [TS]

00:28:48   that as gospel without really [TS]

00:28:50   understanding why that was done that way [TS]

00:28:53   and without understanding that they were [TS]

00:28:55   trade-offs involved and sometimes you [TS]

00:28:57   shouldn't do things that way and like [TS]

00:28:59   you know basically copying like a [TS]

00:29:02   superficial attribute and just [TS]

00:29:04   replicating it without understanding why [TS]

00:29:06   without ever questioning it [TS]

00:29:07   I almost feel like that's how Apple's [TS]

00:29:10   designing their own product line now as [TS]

00:29:14   like kind of repeating the old just I [TS]

00:29:16   guess we can make it thinner because [TS]

00:29:18   we're also going to do I guess we remove [TS]

00:29:20   supports because that's the future in [TS]

00:29:22   quotes but it's almost like they've lost [TS]

00:29:24   track of why it's so why is sometimes [TS]

00:29:28   worth moving things why it sometimes [TS]

00:29:30   isn't and it's it's like they're saying [TS]

00:29:33   no or removing things for the sake of [TS]

00:29:36   saying no removing them and this is kind [TS]

00:29:39   of permeating now the Apple commentary [TS]

00:29:41   culture right now I'm kind of assuming [TS]

00:29:43   that everything that apple takes away or [TS]

00:29:46   makes worse is for the future and [TS]

00:29:49   inevitable and it's it's universally a [TS]

00:29:52   good thing of course that the course [TS]

00:29:53   this was this was progress and they [TS]

00:29:56   apply that same thinking too when Apple [TS]

00:29:58   basically cuts off somebody's needs and [TS]

00:30:01   so well that I guess they just don't [TS]

00:30:03   feel like serving you anymore or you're [TS]

00:30:05   not worth serving and by the way for a [TS]

00:30:09   company where like you have quarterly [TS]

00:30:12   results that keep going down and product [TS]

00:30:16   lines that that the seems like the [TS]

00:30:18   growth is being problematic for you i'm [TS]

00:30:21   not sure it's the wisest move in the [TS]

00:30:22   world to throw away market share that [TS]

00:30:25   you've hard that you earn hard over the [TS]

00:30:26   last decade or two like to tell somebody [TS]

00:30:30   your needs are not worth surfing is [TS]

00:30:36   a big slap in the face to them and that [TS]

00:30:39   doesn't leave people happy with apple or [TS]

00:30:40   likely to buy a lot of other apple stuff [TS]

00:30:42   and so they're literally throwing away [TS]

00:30:45   market share with everything they cut [TS]

00:30:48   neglect or change for the worse or [TS]

00:30:51   choose not to address you know they're [TS]

00:30:53   literally throwing away market share and [TS]

00:30:57   in in a market like the pc market where [TS]

00:30:59   market share is hard to come by and [TS]

00:31:02   there's not a ton of growth happening of [TS]

00:31:03   the whole market the market as a whole [TS]

00:31:05   that's kinda the opposite of what you [TS]

00:31:06   should be doing really like the Apple [TS]

00:31:08   should be trying to address more needs [TS]

00:31:09   with the mac not fewer anyway going back [TS]

00:31:11   to more than the more general stuff like [TS]

00:31:13   I worried now that Apple does the apple [TS]

00:31:17   and also commenting on the the Apple [TS]

00:31:19   commenters all seem to support this [TS]

00:31:21   notion unquestioningly that removing [TS]

00:31:25   things and making things quote simpler [TS]

00:31:28   which often of house cutting off [TS]

00:31:30   people's needs and what they were doing [TS]

00:31:31   that that's universally a good thing and [TS]

00:31:34   I think that deserves more critical [TS]

00:31:37   thinking at Apple I think that deserves [TS]

00:31:39   more pushback and because sometimes that [TS]

00:31:42   is the right answer but not every time [TS]

00:31:44   and it really does seem like Apple has [TS]

00:31:46   lost the ability to tell the difference [TS]

00:31:50   what do you think about what I said [TS]

00:31:51   before about how from the inside it's [TS]

00:31:54   difficult to distinguish between the [TS]

00:31:55   situation that you just drive in this [TS]

00:31:57   situation where Apple's actually right [TS]

00:31:58   and they're just not there being that [TS]

00:32:02   they're not being honest maybe with [TS]

00:32:03   themselves even but certainly not with [TS]

00:32:05   us about the fact that we're moving away [TS]

00:32:07   from it like you think you could tell [TS]

00:32:09   the difference from our perspective [TS]

00:32:11   whether whether we're just being left [TS]

00:32:13   behind and it's painful or whether we're [TS]

00:32:16   actually right and apples doing [TS]

00:32:17   something stupid it [TS]

00:32:19   I honestly I'd i don't know i don't have [TS]

00:32:22   any way to know that you can you can [TS]

00:32:25   look at the market there is a clear [TS]

00:32:26   trend that Mobile is up and pc-style [TS]

00:32:29   os's including Mac OS are down right and [TS]

00:32:32   and that you know things things like you [TS]

00:32:35   know like web browsing share you can see [TS]

00:32:38   that going going way towards mobile now [TS]

00:32:40   like it's obvious that's like wherewhere [TS]

00:32:41   usage percentages are going I'm not yet [TS]

00:32:45   convinced that it is inevitable that p [TS]

00:32:49   see style computing is going to go away [TS]

00:32:52   or even be incredibly marginalized and I [TS]

00:32:56   don't think those are necessarily Givens [TS]

00:32:58   I would be very surprised if either of [TS]

00:33:01   those happened actually and great i'm [TS]

00:33:03   wrong all the time so this is really [TS]

00:33:04   gonna happen next year I don't know but [TS]

00:33:06   what I what I see is a lot of common [TS]

00:33:10   tasks moving two phones and tablets sure [TS]

00:33:13   that's that's fine phones tablets are [TS]

00:33:15   wonderful things i think obviously i [TS]

00:33:17   think the phone is the way better thing [TS]

00:33:18   but you know we we live in abundance in [TS]

00:33:21   technology now we can have both [TS]

00:33:22   cool that's fine but i think what we see [TS]

00:33:26   is that even the most dedicated people [TS]

00:33:29   who love using iPads for all their work [TS]

00:33:33   for instance still almost all of them [TS]

00:33:37   have a mac because there's like one or [TS]

00:33:39   two or ten things that you need the mac [TS]

00:33:44   to do that iOS not only can't do but [TS]

00:33:47   probably won't ever do I don't see any [TS]

00:33:50   any change on the horizon that's going [TS]

00:33:53   to change that like so I feel like it's [TS]

00:33:56   going to kind of like settle in where [TS]

00:33:58   you know right now there's like a line [TS]

00:34:00   going in a certain direction i think [TS]

00:34:02   it's going to kind of look more like an [TS]

00:34:03   asymptotic curve then like a straight [TS]

00:34:05   line where it's going to flatten and [TS]

00:34:07   plateau and and like there's going to be [TS]

00:34:10   a certain baseline usage that people [TS]

00:34:13   will just need pc-style computers and an [TS]

00:34:17   oasis to do this chunk of common tasks [TS]

00:34:20   because the pc / and again i use the [TS]

00:34:23   word pc here I really do mean both [TS]

00:34:25   windows and mac pcs and I refer to the [TS]

00:34:29   pc style operating system that you know [TS]

00:34:32   as opposed to like iOS and Android [TS]

00:34:33   especially iOS which is really more I [TS]

00:34:36   mean the way iOS works is almost way [TS]

00:34:38   game console works these days like it's [TS]

00:34:39   very much like console computing where [TS]

00:34:42   you have like everything is very much [TS]

00:34:43   locked down much more proprietary you [TS]

00:34:46   have much less control as the user [TS]

00:34:48   there's much less potential for like [TS]

00:34:50   messing around or customization or [TS]

00:34:52   hacking things or or using like little [TS]

00:34:54   be no tools that can hook into the OS [TS]

00:34:56   and provide cool functionality there's [TS]

00:34:58   almost none of that or very little of [TS]

00:35:01   that and then the pc style operate [TS]

00:35:03   system allows you to basically install [TS]

00:35:05   whatever you want and the programs can [TS]

00:35:07   do to a large degree whatever they want [TS]

00:35:09   and of course that comes with good and [TS]

00:35:11   bad there's a lot of security issues [TS]

00:35:12   with that however ultimately what that [TS]

00:35:14   allows us for the pc to be a way way [TS]

00:35:17   more customizable work environment it [TS]

00:35:20   allows you to address needs that the [TS]

00:35:22   platform ender never imagined and it [TS]

00:35:24   allows it to basically fill in all of [TS]

00:35:27   the holes so that there's all sorts of [TS]

00:35:29   like you know what we call edge cases [TS]

00:35:32   which is it has become a bad word for [TS]

00:35:33   some reason there's all sorts of things [TS]

00:35:36   that we have to do and I'm not and like [TS]

00:35:40   I also want to be really clear here that [TS]

00:35:42   like thinking that these edge cases only [TS]

00:35:45   applied to geeks and the geeks are a [TS]

00:35:46   small market both of those things are [TS]

00:35:48   wrong [TS]

00:35:49   geeks are freaking huge market and [TS]

00:35:51   everyone needs to do these things [TS]

00:35:52   sometimes [TS]

00:35:53   so anyway pc-style operating systems [TS]

00:35:57   fill in these gaps in it they are the [TS]

00:35:59   most versatile software ecosystems that [TS]

00:36:02   can ever exist like that has ever [TS]

00:36:04   existed you know iOS and the lockdown [TS]

00:36:08   kind of console computing model that it [TS]

00:36:10   provides is very nice in a number of [TS]

00:36:13   ways but one thing it really isn't as [TS]

00:36:15   versatile it's capable you can do a lot [TS]

00:36:17   of things but it's not versatile and and [TS]

00:36:21   PCOS is fill that in [TS]

00:36:25   so there are so many needs that really [TS]

00:36:28   can either only be done on PCOS is or [TS]

00:36:31   are just so ridiculous to do in iOS that [TS]

00:36:34   you would rather eat your only really [TS]

00:36:36   will ever wanted to my pc is this and [TS]

00:36:40   that I don't see changing I don't see [TS]

00:36:43   some kind of massive shift on the [TS]

00:36:45   horizon where iOS is going to suddenly [TS]

00:36:47   allow you to like hook in and provide [TS]

00:36:50   your own battery widget in the status [TS]

00:36:51   bar and allow apps to talk to each other [TS]

00:36:53   more directly and share files more [TS]

00:36:55   directly i don't see that a that would [TS]

00:36:58   ruin iOS in a lot of ways so there's [TS]

00:37:01   always going to be massive types of [TS]

00:37:04   things that are really only possible in [TS]

00:37:06   PCOS and the percentage of time that you [TS]

00:37:09   need to do one of those things Mike will [TS]

00:37:13   probably continue to shrink over time [TS]

00:37:14   the way it has [TS]

00:37:15   but I don't think those needs are going [TS]

00:37:18   away so i don't foresee a future in [TS]

00:37:20   which a lot of people who have ever [TS]

00:37:22   needed a pc will stop needing a pc [TS]

00:37:25   completely they might use it less they [TS]

00:37:27   might replace it less often we see that [TS]

00:37:29   now but they're still going to use them [TS]

00:37:31   so for Apple to completely neglect that [TS]

00:37:35   was not doing yet they're completely [TS]

00:37:37   neglecting it there they're partly [TS]

00:37:39   neglecting now but for Apple to [TS]

00:37:41   basically slowly let that die i think is [TS]

00:37:45   incredibly unwise and I think that that [TS]

00:37:47   threatens their dominance in their more [TS]

00:37:50   profitable markets because part of the [TS]

00:37:53   reason that people love iphone so much [TS]

00:37:55   is that a lot of people although but a [TS]

00:37:58   lot of people who both use and buy [TS]

00:38:00   iphones and also who influence other [TS]

00:38:02   people to use and buy iphones lot of mac [TS]

00:38:06   users so if the mac starts to whether or [TS]

00:38:08   dies a lot of those people are gonna [TS]

00:38:11   start looking around and consider [TS]

00:38:14   different phone platforms as well [TS]

00:38:15   because a lot of the advantage using an [TS]

00:38:17   iphone is how to integrate well with the [TS]

00:38:18   mac environment [TS]

00:38:19   not all of it again this is represent [TS]

00:38:21   everyone who buys an iphone obviously [TS]

00:38:22   it's a much bigger market but like this [TS]

00:38:24   is a non-trivial size group and it's a [TS]

00:38:27   very influential group and so to [TS]

00:38:30   completely throw away everything they've [TS]

00:38:33   built with mac OS which is amazing to [TS]

00:38:36   completely throw away all of the [TS]

00:38:38   goodwill of all these millions of users [TS]

00:38:40   that they've built up over decades i [TS]

00:38:43   think is an incredible strategic error [TS]

00:38:45   not to mention the tragedy it is for [TS]

00:38:49   those of us who use pcs which is nearly [TS]

00:38:51   everybody those of us who use pcs see if [TS]

00:38:57   Apple leaves or effectively neglects [TS]

00:39:00   this market there's nothing better left [TS]

00:39:04   windows is not good we we can probably [TS]

00:39:07   get x and windows but it's not good [TS]

00:39:10   linux is really not made for this i mean [TS]

00:39:15   you can kind of wedge it in there but it [TS]

00:39:17   doesn't do a great job of being a [TS]

00:39:18   desktop OS and it's yeah it serves a lot [TS]

00:39:21   of many fewer needs mac OS is the cream [TS]

00:39:25   of the crop and [TS]

00:39:27   to meet you no one's gonna come along [TS]

00:39:29   and just make another mac OS like that [TS]

00:39:31   it but that takes 20 years and really [TS]

00:39:33   good talent and really good direction [TS]

00:39:35   and really opportunities that are [TS]

00:39:36   probably not going to happen ever again [TS]

00:39:37   and personal computers or at least in [TS]

00:39:39   our lifetimes so Apple is some degree [TS]

00:39:43   like is somebody Twitter and I'm sorry [TS]

00:39:45   forget who are now somebody to said [TS]

00:39:46   earlier that they almost have like a [TS]

00:39:47   social responsibility to the world of [TS]

00:39:49   computing to to keep making mac OS x [TS]

00:39:53   disney dad's go that's going way too far [TS]

00:39:55   honest is it yes you know what I bet [TS]

00:39:58   steve jobs agree with that statement [TS]

00:40:00   maybe I mean who knows but Steve Jobs [TS]

00:40:03   loved computers and even when new stuff [TS]

00:40:06   came out he loved computers and he I [TS]

00:40:09   think I mean I don't know him but I [TS]

00:40:12   think that's the kind of thing he would [TS]

00:40:14   have agreed with his whole thing like [TS]

00:40:16   the glass water and how the glass water [TS]

00:40:18   and how like I really do think that he [TS]

00:40:21   saw it as like his responsibility to [TS]

00:40:23   bring good computer into the world and [TS]

00:40:25   apple still does that with iOS certainly [TS]

00:40:28   and the mac is still good for now but it [TS]

00:40:32   is very very clear that the mac is not [TS]

00:40:34   being given the priority and resources [TS]

00:40:38   that it needs to move forward [TS]

00:40:40   it's very clear that whatever its [TS]

00:40:42   whatever level of resources and priority [TS]

00:40:44   is getting now is enough to kind of [TS]

00:40:46   steve ballmer the mac line like it'll [TS]

00:40:49   keep going [TS]

00:40:50   it'll be it'll make some money will be [TS]

00:40:52   profitable but the ship it won't be able [TS]

00:40:55   to turn because that takes more than [TS]

00:40:59   what they're giving it and so if and [TS]

00:41:01   when the market turns into something new [TS]

00:41:05   whether that's VRA our type stuff [TS]

00:41:07   whether that is something like the [TS]

00:41:09   surface studio or who knows what else [TS]

00:41:11   will come along the way whatever is [TS]

00:41:14   going to be the next big change in [TS]

00:41:16   pc-style hardware and software i can [TS]

00:41:19   almost guarantee that apple will miss it [TS]

00:41:22   I can almost guarantee that mac OS will [TS]

00:41:23   fall behind because they are simply not [TS]

00:41:26   giving it enough thought and priority to [TS]

00:41:28   to make it stay on top of the game [TS]

00:41:31   they're doing well now because there [TS]

00:41:33   they had such a big leader windows and [TS]

00:41:35   so many areas for so long but eventually [TS]

00:41:39   that leads going to go away it's gonna [TS]

00:41:41   take awhile [TS]

00:41:41   well because Microsoft is not very good [TS]

00:41:43   things but eventually something big is [TS]

00:41:46   going to come to the world of pcs that [TS]

00:41:48   people want that that day that it will [TS]

00:41:50   shift to an apple will not be ready [TS]

00:41:52   the absolutely will not be ready and [TS]

00:41:55   they will totally miss it and that's [TS]

00:41:57   when they will lose the mat completely [TS]

00:41:58   right now it seems like they're ok with [TS]

00:42:01   that outcome because of their act their [TS]

00:42:03   actions whatever they say their actions [TS]

00:42:05   say that they are ok with that outcome [TS]

00:42:08   and I think that's huge [TS]

00:42:10   that's a huge mistake respond to this [TS]

00:42:13   week again by kokhon go to cocom use [TS]

00:42:18   code ATP to say fifty percent on tickets [TS]

00:42:20   for yosemite and Chicago kokhon is a [TS]

00:42:22   technical conference for Apple [TS]

00:42:24   developers and designers it's amazing [TS]

00:42:27   next year on marks 20th through 23rd [TS]

00:42:29   comic-con will be returning to yosemite [TS]

00:42:31   national park 1st 3rd Yosemite event [TS]

00:42:33   this is again held the assembly let [TS]

00:42:35   national in the USSR this is again held [TS]

00:42:38   at the Assembly lodge at the Falls right [TS]

00:42:40   in the heart of national park it is a [TS]

00:42:42   beautiful picturesque venue in fact [TS]

00:42:45   there's even a guided photowalk led by [TS]

00:42:47   10 photographer James dr. Davidson who [TS]

00:42:49   is both an awesome photographer and a [TS]

00:42:50   super nice guy and they have amazing [TS]

00:42:52   speakers including action Nelson [TS]

00:42:54   Hornstein Brent Simmons daniel steinberg [TS]

00:42:56   David Smith Georgia dau Jamie Newberry [TS]

00:42:59   Matt brands and Sebastian d with [TS]

00:43:00   personally I have seen almost all of [TS]

00:43:03   these people speak they are great [TS]

00:43:05   they're top of their field i highly [TS]

00:43:07   recommend that you go to this and you [TS]

00:43:09   can also get music from james Dempsey [TS]

00:43:11   the breakpoints and by our theme song [TS]

00:43:13   author Jonathan song a day man I've also [TS]

00:43:16   seen both of these acts and they're also [TS]

00:43:17   both amazing so this is a fantastic [TS]

00:43:20   event in an amazing location yosemite [TS]

00:43:23   national park right it's this beautiful [TS]

00:43:25   beautiful park its cave described it and [TS]

00:43:29   all this is with these great speakers [TS]

00:43:32   with this great event [TS]

00:43:33   you got to see it go to koat.com use [TS]

00:43:36   code ATP to see fifty percent tickets [TS]

00:43:38   for yosemite and also they have a coke [TS]

00:43:40   on chicago event happening in April 21st [TS]

00:43:42   22nd that will also use that fifty [TS]

00:43:45   percent with the code to be on that too [TS]

00:43:47   so check it out cocom for yosemite in [TS]

00:43:50   march and chicago in april use code atps [TS]

00:43:54   a 50-percent to thank you [TS]

00:43:55   you're much to cook on for sponsoring [TS]

00:43:56   once again so I don't know what it was [TS]

00:44:00   for maybe five years ago there was this [TS]

00:44:06   this magazine that was called the [TS]

00:44:11   magazine and that's what I pitched I [TS]

00:44:15   pitched a story to the magazine about [TS]

00:44:19   the importance of the manual [TS]

00:44:21   transmission and much to my dismay it [TS]

00:44:24   was refused because somebody else has [TS]

00:44:27   already had already basically claimed a [TS]

00:44:30   story on the manual transmission as it [TS]

00:44:32   turns out that story was by the terrible [TS]

00:44:33   human being [TS]

00:44:34   damn more'n who as it turns out wrote a [TS]

00:44:38   much better story than mine and I will [TS]

00:44:41   forget to link in the show notes but my [TS]

00:44:43   version of the story is on my old tumblr [TS]

00:44:45   blog somewhere that that you can dig up [TS]

00:44:48   if you're interested the manual [TS]

00:44:51   transmission on a modern car means a [TS]

00:44:54   tremendous amounts of me and I don't say [TS]

00:44:56   that to be funny I don't say that in a [TS]

00:44:59   hyperbolic way I genuinely mean that [TS]

00:45:01   like I I will be devastated when there [TS]

00:45:04   comes a time that the only car that that [TS]

00:45:08   i can buy with a manual transmission is [TS]

00:45:10   one that I don't want say for example a [TS]

00:45:12   pickup truck and and i'm not saying a [TS]

00:45:14   pickup is is wrong for other people but [TS]

00:45:16   it's not the kind of car that I want [TS]

00:45:18   it's an edge case you can just ignore it [TS]

00:45:21   I know you're being snarky but you're [TS]

00:45:23   not your hands right in i'm not one of [TS]

00:45:25   those are popular selling vehicle in [TS]

00:45:27   America [TS]

00:45:27   wow I I see your point i it's actually [TS]

00:45:31   connected excellent analogy because [TS]

00:45:33   pickup truck to the kind of thing that [TS]

00:45:34   most people never think about but [TS]

00:45:37   they're actually everywhere and tons of [TS]

00:45:39   people needed to do their jobs and a lot [TS]

00:45:41   of people just like them [TS]

00:45:42   oh yeah you're right and in in you're [TS]

00:45:45   right that is pretty good analogy but it [TS]

00:45:48   ruins my whole story so ignore it okay [TS]

00:45:50   to fremont but at the point of driving [TS]

00:45:53   at is a is that for me i want a [TS]

00:45:58   four-door passenger car with three [TS]

00:46:01   pedals in it that's what i want and to [TS]

00:46:04   me driving a car with only two pedals [TS]

00:46:07   is not enjoyable in in some ways I think [TS]

00:46:14   it's a little bit unsafe and I know a [TS]

00:46:15   lot of people are going to disagree with [TS]

00:46:17   that with that that's fine but it I just [TS]

00:46:20   don't [TS]

00:46:20   that's not for me i don't care for it [TS]

00:46:22   and until I cannot anymore i will always [TS]

00:46:28   choose cars that have that have a [TS]

00:46:30   manually-operated clutch that's what I [TS]

00:46:33   want that's what I'm interested in and [TS]

00:46:36   that's what i will do until I have a [TS]

00:46:39   compelling reason not to [TS]

00:46:41   as in my left leg is broken or or I i'm [TS]

00:46:45   down a limb somewhere whatever all of [TS]

00:46:49   that said I don't think there's any [TS]

00:46:51   question that i am one of the few and [TS]

00:46:54   that the rest of the world not only is [TS]

00:46:58   moving on but has moved on [TS]

00:47:01   it's a miracle that that's a bit [TS]

00:47:04   overblown but i'll stick with it's a [TS]

00:47:05   miracle that you can buy a 3 series BMW [TS]

00:47:08   with a six-speed it's a miracle that [TS]

00:47:11   Tina was able to get a six speed record [TS]

00:47:15   in 2016 and it's clear that you guys [TS]

00:47:19   John had to go through some hoops to get [TS]

00:47:20   it's not like you pulled it off a lot [TS]

00:47:22   it's not like they shipped in from [TS]

00:47:23   Connecticut or New York or something [TS]

00:47:25   like that it was built specifically for [TS]

00:47:27   you because nobody else wanted that it's [TS]

00:47:30   clear to me that driving a manual [TS]

00:47:32   transmission is not long for this world [TS]

00:47:34   but why i love it in so many ways I [TS]

00:47:39   think it's better but the fact of the [TS]

00:47:42   matter is I'm one of a very very small [TS]

00:47:45   breed and in and i'm one of a group that [TS]

00:47:48   is going away and ever-increasing [TS]

00:47:49   numbers look at the take rate of the [TS]

00:47:52   manual transmission on m3 and m4 their [TS]

00:47:54   plummeting the only reason that the m5 [TS]

00:47:58   the most recent m5 f10 itself time right [TS]

00:48:01   the only reason the f10 m5 got that [TS]

00:48:03   sounds like a pickup [TS]

00:48:04   anyway uh the only reason the most [TS]

00:48:05   modern five had a manual transmission it [TS]

00:48:09   was because of Americans of all people [TS]

00:48:10   which is really weird and and it was [TS]

00:48:13   only in America if I believe that's true [TS]

00:48:15   I'm i factor I think we got this North [TS]

00:48:17   America right right so nobody else seems [TS]

00:48:20   to want me [TS]

00:48:21   transmission in to be honest on paper in [TS]

00:48:23   my most metrics the transmission that [TS]

00:48:26   Marcos m5 had is better it's better in [TS]

00:48:30   pretty much every measurable way but [TS]

00:48:34   here it is [TS]

00:48:34   I'm gonna be really freaking pissed that [TS]

00:48:38   whenever i buy my next car 50-50 shot i [TS]

00:48:42   won't be able to get a six speed and [TS]

00:48:44   when I looked for my car which [TS]

00:48:46   admittedly i got used which to some [TS]

00:48:49   degree makes things a lot worse but it [TS]

00:48:51   took me something like six months to [TS]

00:48:53   find this car because to find to find a [TS]

00:48:56   335 with the m-sport package and why is [TS]

00:48:58   hard way that wasn't a criteria a big [TS]

00:49:01   jerk have to find a 335 to happen to be [TS]

00:49:04   white [TS]

00:49:05   it did is like all your other cars now [TS]

00:49:07   the other ones were delivered this one [TS]

00:49:09   was an accident anyway the point is to [TS]

00:49:12   find one with the m-sport package that [TS]

00:49:14   was really difficult but to find any 3 [TS]

00:49:17   series with a six-speed get out of town [TS]

00:49:19   because you're going to be waiting for [TS]

00:49:21   ever [TS]

00:49:22   it's impossible but here it is that's [TS]

00:49:25   what i want and that's what's right for [TS]

00:49:27   me [TS]

00:49:27   I don't care if it's not right for you [TS]

00:49:29   it's what's right for me but the fact of [TS]

00:49:31   the matter is I'm a dying breed I'm one [TS]

00:49:35   of few and i cannot expect BMW to [TS]

00:49:38   forevermore cater to captain Casey it's [TS]

00:49:41   just not going to work [TS]

00:49:42   it's not profitable it's not manageable [TS]

00:49:44   it's not understandable it's not [TS]

00:49:47   reasonable it's not gonna work [TS]

00:49:50   all that being said i love the mac hand [TS]

00:49:54   on heart I cannot begin to describe how [TS]

00:49:57   much i love the mac i feel so much [TS]

00:49:59   faster on the mac that I do on iOS that [TS]

00:50:02   doesn't mean I can't do equivalent [TS]

00:50:04   things on iOS in most cases but i love [TS]

00:50:07   the mac i feel hamstrung when I'm on an [TS]

00:50:11   iOS device I feel crippled i feel like i [TS]

00:50:13   have handcuffs on [TS]

00:50:14   that's not the case for everyone clearly [TS]

00:50:17   people like federico in in my curly and [TS]

00:50:21   so many other people have done amazing [TS]

00:50:22   things on iOS I'm not trying to say that [TS]

00:50:25   iOS is right or good or great or amazing [TS]

00:50:28   for me it is not the right answer and [TS]

00:50:32   and I love [TS]

00:50:34   of the mac i feel at home on the Mac I [TS]

00:50:36   feel free on the mac and yes that sounds [TS]

00:50:39   really ridiculous and lame and in kind [TS]

00:50:41   of granola but I know it doesn't free on [TS]

00:50:43   the Mac I really do feel free on the mac [TS]

00:50:45   i agree with you Marco that I will be [TS]

00:50:48   devastated if the mac goes away but the [TS]

00:50:51   more I look around and the more I i see [TS]

00:50:55   the people around me the more clear it [TS]

00:50:57   is that I am NOT one of the many i'm one [TS]

00:51:00   of the few and at some point at some [TS]

00:51:03   point I'm the this group that loves the [TS]

00:51:07   manual transmission this group that [TS]

00:51:09   loves mac OS isn't going to be big [TS]

00:51:11   enough to really freaking matter anymore [TS]

00:51:13   and I I will be devastated i mean that [TS]

00:51:16   word I use that were deliberately i will [TS]

00:51:19   be friggin devastated when that time [TS]

00:51:21   comes [TS]

00:51:22   maybe not as much as is you too but if [TS]

00:51:25   not really damn close because as much as [TS]

00:51:27   I beat the to you up about you know [TS]

00:51:29   really convention about the mac and the [TS]

00:51:31   state of the mac and this is that i [TS]

00:51:33   agree with you i want the back to live [TS]

00:51:35   for ever but to me it's becoming more [TS]

00:51:39   and more clear that I'm not going to [TS]

00:51:40   have a manual transmission much longer [TS]

00:51:42   and i'm not convinced but i'm not [TS]

00:51:45   terribly sure that I'm gonna have a mac [TS]

00:51:47   much longer and i think the reality of [TS]

00:51:49   the situation is all three of us are [TS]

00:51:52   just gonna have to come to grips with [TS]

00:51:53   that and it doesn't make me happy it [TS]

00:51:55   doesn't make me smile it makes me really [TS]

00:51:57   damn sad not to the point that i'm [TS]

00:51:58   losing sleep over John but it makes me [TS]

00:52:00   really damn sad and and I hope that I'm [TS]

00:52:03   wrong [TS]

00:52:03   god I hope I'm wrong but at some point [TS]

00:52:06   all three of us need to look around and [TS]

00:52:08   say you know what we aren't the ones [TS]

00:52:10   that matter anymore and i look at I look [TS]

00:52:13   at aaron who is by every measure a far [TS]

00:52:16   more human more normal human than I am [TS]

00:52:18   it every measure pull away and I look at [TS]

00:52:21   her and I think to myself she has this [TS]

00:52:23   macbook air and yes it went under water [TS]

00:52:25   twice but nevertheless it's working [TS]

00:52:27   today with anything to clarify for any [TS]

00:52:30   listeners who forgot it was Casey's [TS]

00:52:32   fault underwater not absolutely [TS]

00:52:34   absolutely my fault but she is she very [TS]

00:52:38   rarely uses her back care why because [TS]

00:52:41   her iphone works for her [TS]

00:52:43   I gave her that i gave her by old [TS]

00:52:47   ipad with the the first retina iPad was [TS]

00:52:51   that the third-generation ipad doesn't [TS]

00:52:52   get that I gave her my old iPad she [TS]

00:52:55   never touched because her phone was [TS]

00:52:56   enough for her and I think that for most [TS]

00:52:59   people that's pretty much the truth [TS]

00:53:02   maybe not at work but in Aaron's case [TS]

00:53:05   she's a stay-at-home mom so that is her [TS]

00:53:07   work actually come to think of it for a [TS]

00:53:10   lot of people they don't need max now [TS]

00:53:12   take tip for example tiff is also a [TS]

00:53:15   stay-at-home mom but she has other [TS]

00:53:16   things that she does and she absolutely [TS]

00:53:18   without a shadow of a doubt mesa max I'm [TS]

00:53:20   not trying to say this is universal [TS]

00:53:21   but I take Aaron as an exemplar of [TS]

00:53:24   somebody who is normal or a lot more [TS]

00:53:26   normal than i am and she she does have a [TS]

00:53:28   mac and she does use her mac but if I [TS]

00:53:31   told her that her Mac was gone forever [TS]

00:53:33   say for example if I dumped a bunch of [TS]

00:53:35   water on it I think she'd be okay and [TS]

00:53:38   none of this makes me happy I'm not [TS]

00:53:41   pleased to say these things but in [TS]

00:53:43   summary i think all three of us need to [TS]

00:53:45   realize that were part of a four part of [TS]

00:53:47   a group that's getting ever smaller and [TS]

00:53:49   that's ever less profitable and that [TS]

00:53:51   probably doesn't matter that much to [TS]

00:53:53   apple and that sucks [TS]

00:53:55   it totally sucks but it's reality you [TS]

00:53:59   know before I don't know if we want to [TS]

00:54:01   refute all the things you say because I [TS]

00:54:02   think Marco and I could vary but maybe I [TS]

00:54:05   want to have a but but but i want to [TS]

00:54:07   point out that both of you seem to be [TS]

00:54:09   uninterested in my thought experiments [TS]

00:54:11   i'm assigning with you as a homework [TS]

00:54:12   assignment because right now we're still [TS]

00:54:15   talking about like whether or not what [TS]

00:54:18   we think might happen is happening and [TS]

00:54:19   i'm still more interested at this point [TS]

00:54:21   in how you would tell the difference [TS]

00:54:24   between the two scenarios between the [TS]

00:54:25   case scenario where were restrictions [TS]

00:54:27   drivers for Apple to users and it's just [TS]

00:54:30   happening to us and the scenario the [TS]

00:54:32   more Marco scenario where Apple's doing [TS]

00:54:35   something dumb and really they should be [TS]

00:54:39   supporting the mac because if they don't [TS]

00:54:40   those needs aren't going away and again [TS]

00:54:44   not not the specific arguments either [TS]

00:54:45   side of it but how if you are in the [TS]

00:54:47   middle of it as a Mac user as an apple [TS]

00:54:49   to user as a stick shift driver [TS]

00:54:51   what should you look for to distinguish [TS]

00:54:54   those two situations right and i'm not [TS]

00:54:56   sure i'm great answers either but i [TS]

00:54:58   think it's something more thing about so [TS]

00:54:59   we can table that is [TS]

00:55:01   as a homework assignment i suppose and [TS]

00:55:04   on the specific stick shift things and [TS]

00:55:06   on the Mac I mean like a lobster out of [TS]

00:55:08   here like so the idea that we're [TS]

00:55:10   shrinking like percentage-wise Mac [TS]

00:55:13   market share the line for mac market [TS]

00:55:16   share in in the you know just in any any [TS]

00:55:19   kind of line you want to put overall pc [TS]

00:55:21   market share mac sales years reviews it [TS]

00:55:24   looks way better than the stick shift [TS]

00:55:26   mine like way better this fictional i [TS]

00:55:29   fell off a cliff years ago mr. basement [TS]

00:55:32   and the mac line if you look at all the [TS]

00:55:34   graphs it's boring but it's pretty [TS]

00:55:36   steady so regardless of you know it just [TS]

00:55:39   just in terms of degree you can still [TS]

00:55:41   totally right about it but in terms of [TS]

00:55:43   degree i'm gonna say that the mac is not [TS]

00:55:45   a stick shift situation I mean we would [TS]

00:55:46   know it doesn't stay with it was a [TS]

00:55:48   six-inch situation I would have to go to [TS]

00:55:51   seven different stores and and beg [TS]

00:55:52   people to sell have money i want to give [TS]

00:55:56   you will you give me that I swear I [TS]

00:55:59   talked to so many dealers they want [TS]

00:56:00   everybody want to sell my cbt accord [TS]

00:56:02   nobody wanted my money like waving [TS]

00:56:04   dollar bills in their face i have money [TS]

00:56:06   you know I'll do your finance thing [TS]

00:56:08   whatever incentives you have all do them [TS]

00:56:09   like now now we don't have any of those [TS]

00:56:11   maybe try back later maybe less [TS]

00:56:13   anyway so we're not the situation yet [TS]

00:56:15   and the other thing on the market was [TS]

00:56:17   talking about 11 aspect that would would [TS]

00:56:21   show that Apple is screwing this up is [TS]

00:56:25   that and this has happened in the past [TS]

00:56:28   to apple specifically that of apple [TS]

00:56:30   doesn't fulfill the needs of some market [TS]

00:56:32   and then market is heavily invested in [TS]

00:56:35   the mac i mean that can back and read [TS]

00:56:37   companies that can really disrupt the [TS]

00:56:39   industry but more than any other type of [TS]

00:56:42   business people that need computers [TS]

00:56:45   pc-style computers for professional [TS]

00:56:47   needs are the most willing and able like [TS]

00:56:51   as an industry not as an individual [TS]

00:56:53   company perhaps but the most willing and [TS]

00:56:55   able to bail and go to something else if [TS]

00:56:58   they're using Mac's for video editing [TS]

00:57:00   and apples not interested in video [TS]

00:57:01   editing the whole industry will shift to [TS]

00:57:03   a different product on a different [TS]

00:57:06   platform likes will stop final cutting [TS]

00:57:07   go to have it or you know same thing [TS]

00:57:09   with like audio editing applications or [TS]

00:57:12   3d 3d for [TS]

00:57:14   a little while looks like the mac might [TS]

00:57:15   be a factor but it's like nope windows [TS]

00:57:17   NT or at you just as sgr is people [TS]

00:57:19   switch from sti's to Windows NT which [TS]

00:57:21   seemed heard of like they'll switch the [TS]

00:57:24   if you don't fill their needs and they [TS]

00:57:25   still need to do this thing and it seems [TS]

00:57:27   like you're not supporting them anymore [TS]

00:57:28   they will ditch you and retrain [TS]

00:57:31   everybody and buy all new hardware and [TS]

00:57:33   whole bunch of companies will go out of [TS]

00:57:34   business because they won't make that [TS]

00:57:35   transition and they'll hate you forever [TS]

00:57:36   and they will change and one good way to [TS]

00:57:39   tell if Apple is you know being smarter [TS]

00:57:41   than us like if they have been in these [TS]

00:57:43   industries and people still need to [TS]

00:57:44   professionally edited video on a pc [TS]

00:57:47   style workstation and Apple isn't [TS]

00:57:48   interested in selling the hardware that [TS]

00:57:50   works their needs they will switch to [TS]

00:57:51   windows they absolutely will they will [TS]

00:57:53   hate it they may be sad [TS]

00:57:55   the people who are dyed-in-the-wool [TS]

00:57:56   Apple users we said some kind of [TS]

00:57:57   companies might go out of business [TS]

00:57:58   because they can't absorb the cost to [TS]

00:58:00   turn over all the hardware retrain [TS]

00:58:01   everybody but the absolutely will switch [TS]

00:58:04   and that you know that's a bad sign for [TS]

00:58:07   Apple and my final point no need to get [TS]

00:58:08   to the Q&A part and we will my my final [TS]

00:58:11   point is it if there are any Apple [TS]

00:58:13   people listening I Craig to this spot [TS]

00:58:17   and if you're saying is like an [TS]

00:58:19   important important person inside apple [TS]

00:58:21   and you're hearing all this morning [TS]

00:58:22   about you know these three diehard mac [TS]

00:58:25   users who are talking as if the mac is [TS]

00:58:28   already dead or talking about that [TS]

00:58:30   possibility and you're like you're like [TS]

00:58:31   how is this happening [TS]

00:58:33   like maybe they disagree with what we're [TS]

00:58:35   doing with the mac but but like we must [TS]

00:58:37   be you know if you have to steal it like [TS]

00:58:39   we what are we doing to make these [TS]

00:58:41   customers are most loyal customers our [TS]

00:58:42   customers that are love to give us money [TS]

00:58:44   in 10 x max and they think the platform [TS]

00:58:46   is dead [TS]

00:58:47   like if you have that feeling like [TS]

00:58:49   there's something has gone terribly [TS]

00:58:50   wrong it could be one two things one [TS]

00:58:53   that you're one of those people inside [TS]

00:58:54   Apple that I was just talking about who [TS]

00:58:56   feel the same way about the mac as we do [TS]

00:58:57   and it's totally honest and every time [TS]

00:58:58   they get up on stage and say we care [TS]

00:59:00   about the max really important blah blah [TS]

00:59:01   but maybe the rest of the company [TS]

00:59:04   doesn't agree with you or to the whole [TS]

00:59:07   company's on the same page of the mac is [TS]

00:59:09   really important and you're doing the [TS]

00:59:10   world worse job of convincing [TS]

00:59:12   you're most welcome Sandra this fact [TS]

00:59:14   like but you know but pretend it's the [TS]

00:59:16   truth if it is the truth you're doing a [TS]

00:59:18   bad job of convincing mac users of that [TS]

00:59:21   fact so no matter how you slice this [TS]

00:59:24   something Apple is doing is wrong [TS]

00:59:26   strategically PR y los espiritu's iming [TS]

00:59:30   yet the hidden well that's true that's [TS]

00:59:33   what specifically specifically on the [TS]

00:59:36   issue of how Apple's handling the mac [TS]

00:59:38   there is no way around the fact [TS]

00:59:40   something Apple is doing is wrong it's [TS]

00:59:42   just a question of whether the wrong by [TS]

00:59:44   not being honest with us the wrong by [TS]

00:59:47   not being able to convince the thing [TS]

00:59:49   that really is true or they're wrong [TS]

00:59:50   they shouldn't they already emphasizing [TS]

00:59:52   the mac and they shouldn't be and always [TS]

00:59:55   possible as a kind of up in the air i [TS]

00:59:56   think we've talked about a lot of them [TS]

00:59:57   but like something is going wrong here [TS]

00:59:59   at that [TS]

00:59:59   at that [TS]

01:00:00   as as is true with so many things 2016 [TS]

01:00:02   something has gone wrong respond to this [TS]

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01:00:26   a kindle and ipod in a drawer somewhere [TS]

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01:00:30   books are great for flights long road [TS]

01:00:31   trips or even your daily commute that [TS]

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01:00:34   read books but i often think that but [TS]

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01:00:40   your commute to work every day because [TS]

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01:00:46   to life many of them are read by the [TS]

01:00:47   author's themselves adding extra [TS]

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01:01:20   audible.com / ATP that's audible.com / [TS]

01:01:23   ATP thank you very much to audible for [TS]

01:01:26   sponsoring our show [TS]

01:01:28   alright John see you've come up with [TS]

01:01:30   some ground rules about the Q&A section [TS]

01:01:32   which I actually think we're quite [TS]

01:01:33   clever so would you like a love those i [TS]

01:01:36   love that you had to have rules are [TS]

01:01:38   going to Q&A but there's gonna be rules [TS]

01:01:40   and those rules are mostly for you too [TS]

01:01:42   but for listening only to tell for us to [TS]

01:01:46   I said okay what you don't mean for us [TS]

01:01:49   not for the audience for this far as [TS]

01:01:50   you're concerned here and here's the [TS]

01:01:51   deal with I we ask questions just today [TS]

01:01:53   so you have one date descending [TS]

01:01:54   questions were supposed to send it [TS]

01:01:56   through the email form if you send it [TS]

01:01:57   through Twitter you didn't follow [TS]

01:01:58   directions [TS]

01:01:59   I I maybe I didn't specifically say [TS]

01:02:01   don't send the river by totally said [TS]

01:02:03   send it here [TS]

01:02:03   that's what the colon means it means [TS]

01:02:05   that in this anyway we got tons of [TS]

01:02:09   questions [TS]

01:02:09   that's great a lot of people as repeat [TS]

01:02:11   questions we type in X and Casey picked [TS]

01:02:15   on market any a subset of these [TS]

01:02:17   questions so if you send in your [TS]

01:02:18   question it's probably not going to get [TS]

01:02:19   answered because we had tons of [TS]

01:02:21   questions i just picked them out [TS]

01:02:22   sometimes I US 17 questions i just took [TS]

01:02:24   to sometimes i rephrase your question [TS]

01:02:26   sometimes 17 people ask the same [TS]

01:02:28   question and the port the person that I [TS]

01:02:30   pick whose name is attached to it is [TS]

01:02:32   basically random so this is the system [TS]

01:02:34   it's not here it says number the system [TS]

01:02:36   we have this is not in a rush in today [TS]

01:02:38   what we're going to try to do with the [TS]

01:02:40   questions because if we didn't do this [TS]

01:02:42   we would answer two questions total is [TS]

01:02:44   to do them quickly so rather than answer [TS]

01:02:46   answer your question thoroughly because [TS]

01:02:48   a lot of these questions like you know [TS]

01:02:50   what's the best thing the Apple did last [TS]

01:02:52   year that's a whole show like that's not [TS]

01:02:54   a crime you know [TS]

01:02:55   so with those questions are still in [TS]

01:02:56   there and our challenge as the people [TS]

01:02:58   who are speaking on this podcast our [TS]

01:03:00   challenge is to go against everything is [TS]

01:03:02   in our instincts and to try to answer [TS]

01:03:04   these questions with one or two [TS]

01:03:06   sentences and then move on which means [TS]

01:03:08   we're not going to be able to have a big [TS]

01:03:09   discussion about them but hopefully [TS]

01:03:10   we'll get to more of your questions so [TS]

01:03:12   that's the strategy [TS]

01:03:13   alright so I i guess i will start the MC [TS]

01:03:18   process and then if somebody else takes [TS]

01:03:19   over that's fine we begin with brian [TS]

01:03:21   hamilton who asks how long does it take [TS]

01:03:23   for Marco to edit an episode I'm going [TS]

01:03:25   to put that aside for just a split [TS]

01:03:26   second just Casey still do is listen [TS]

01:03:28   through with the turnaround for episode [TS]

01:03:30   has been much faster lately so quick [TS]

01:03:33   recap it used to be that I would listen [TS]

01:03:35   through each episode in I would mark [TS]

01:03:37   when somebody cough Tory crosstalk to [TS]

01:03:39   whatever then i would send that list of [TS]

01:03:40   timestamps to Marco and he would do the [TS]

01:03:42   actual edit i would say between six [TS]

01:03:45   months in a year ago that it became [TS]

01:03:46   obvious to both market when I that my [TS]

01:03:48   listen to it was getting kind of [TS]

01:03:49   redundant and so I stopped doing that I [TS]

01:03:52   don't know Marco do you remember when I [TS]

01:03:54   don't know maybe halfway through the [TS]

01:03:55   show okay so with that said how long [TS]

01:03:58   does it take you to edit an episode of [TS]

01:04:00   total you know with all the work [TS]

01:04:02   involved in posting and everything it [TS]

01:04:04   helps a lot that you do the show notes [TS]

01:04:06   now which I used to do the show notes [TS]

01:04:08   and that it kind of put too much time on [TS]

01:04:11   me so like I was having spent longer and [TS]

01:04:14   and we're doing back and forth so that [TS]

01:04:15   it took way too i have to do my part and [TS]

01:04:18   you do your part took forever now total [TS]

01:04:21   editing time is probably about three to [TS]

01:04:25   four hours for a two-hour show which is [TS]

01:04:28   a lot of time but doesn't seem terrible [TS]

01:04:30   to me [TS]

01:04:30   yeah and a lot of a lot of that is also [TS]

01:04:32   because i'm using logic and logic is not [TS]

01:04:36   made for this and this is one of the [TS]

01:04:37   reasons i want to make my own editor [TS]

01:04:38   because i think if i made my own editor [TS]

01:04:41   that was custom optimized for editing [TS]

01:04:43   podcasts I think that three or four [TS]

01:04:46   hours could be one to two hours and with [TS]

01:04:48   a lot less mousing and typing all right [TS]

01:04:50   i want to elaborate but I'm gonna move [TS]

01:04:51   on Stephen ham asks have you read the [TS]

01:04:54   sweet home guide to toaster ovens I [TS]

01:04:55   think this is mostly meant for John have [TS]

01:04:58   you tried their pick [TS]

01:04:59   do you agree with their methodology is a [TS]

01:05:02   super common question I get it on [TS]

01:05:03   Twitter all the time I don't always [TS]

01:05:04   respond to it because it's just so [TS]

01:05:05   common at this point yes I have read [TS]

01:05:08   this we don't got to toaster ovens [TS]

01:05:10   yes i have tried their pic Casey has a [TS]

01:05:12   nice blog post that lists all my toaster [TS]

01:05:14   reviews and if you go to that page which [TS]

01:05:16   is that many people their pictures on it [TS]

01:05:17   so you can hear what I have to say about [TS]

01:05:19   it [TS]

01:05:19   do you agree with their methodology i [TS]

01:05:22   have different priorities for example [TS]

01:05:24   their top pick [TS]

01:05:25   the reason i dinged it was it was [TS]

01:05:27   smaller than I would like [TS]

01:05:28   like its it doesn't fit as much stuff in [TS]

01:05:30   it and so that kind of disqualified it [TS]

01:05:32   for like you know being able to put you [TS]

01:05:34   know for big slices of bread or whatever [TS]

01:05:35   in there and the UI was really weird so [TS]

01:05:38   they are they prioritize the UI less [TS]

01:05:39   than i do and the size is not i mean how [TS]

01:05:43   could they make sighs the fact that they [TS]

01:05:44   don't know what size toast uni they're [TS]

01:05:45   trying to say this thing toast really [TS]

01:05:46   quickly which I said in my review [TS]

01:05:48   and really evenly so so yeah that's the [TS]

01:05:51   thing with any reviews including the [TS]

01:05:52   sweet home's you read them to find out [TS]

01:05:54   information but you also are trying to [TS]

01:05:57   find out what they prioritize and you [TS]

01:05:58   have to compare that to how you [TS]

01:05:59   prioritize so it's not as if I disagree [TS]

01:06:01   with anything they did it's just that we [TS]

01:06:03   have different priorities and you can [TS]

01:06:04   hear that in the reviews all right Mike [TS]

01:06:06   Reinhart asks Marco what apps on your [TS]

01:06:08   phone do you have red badges in the [TS]

01:06:11   2000s let's give a little context here [TS]

01:06:14   Marco has made it very clear over the [TS]

01:06:15   years and I think you're right that [TS]

01:06:18   having these red badges with counts and [TS]

01:06:19   whatnot is kind of ridiculous and stress [TS]

01:06:21   inducing so Marco what apps have red [TS]

01:06:23   badges [TS]

01:06:24   it's actually a pretty short list the [TS]

01:06:27   two that always have a red badge our [TS]

01:06:29   phone and mail and the reason for that [TS]

01:06:32   are basically i suck at responding to [TS]

01:06:33   email i use markers on red as an [TS]

01:06:35   organizational tool which i know is [TS]

01:06:36   wrong and with phone I never listen to [TS]

01:06:39   my voicemail so I have voice mails here [TS]

01:06:41   let me see my earliest unplayed [TS]

01:06:44   voicemail is from october third that [TS]

01:06:47   currently have 10 of them so that's why [TS]

01:06:50   you you leave the badge on that even [TS]

01:06:52   though you like that would seem like the [TS]

01:06:54   reason you turned off because it's [TS]

01:06:55   meaningless because it's always gonna be [TS]

01:06:56   read right you have never even consider [TS]

01:06:58   the possibility I could turn it off I [TS]

01:06:59   guess I'll look into that i also have [TS]

01:07:00   one photos right now just because [TS]

01:07:02   there's like some shared album probably [TS]

01:07:04   from kc that it has something red i have [TS]

01:07:07   one on the Apple pod and sunglasses [TS]

01:07:09   spoiler alert [TS]

01:07:10   cool hey I wanted on the Apple podcast [TS]

01:07:12   after i have a folder of a handful of [TS]

01:07:14   other podcast apps basically as i'm [TS]

01:07:17   designing overcast I try to make sure [TS]

01:07:19   that I don't rip off other apps too [TS]

01:07:21   closely so like as i'm adding if i'm [TS]

01:07:23   adding a new feature for instance we [TS]

01:07:24   have to design the UI basically go and [TS]

01:07:26   check like am I ripping off a competitor [TS]

01:07:29   you know really clearly here or am i [TS]

01:07:31   doing my own thing I want to do my own [TS]

01:07:33   thing whenever I can [TS]

01:07:34   so I always have podcast apps are [TS]

01:07:36   showing their own red badges that didn't [TS]

01:07:37   ask for and then finally I have a folder [TS]

01:07:40   that shows an unread badge of 1500 [TS]

01:07:42   because it is actually underscore David [TS]

01:07:45   Smith pedometer + + app that is showing [TS]

01:07:47   that as my step count for the day which [TS]

01:07:48   is actually horrible and I just open up [TS]

01:07:51   the app it's actually 5800 so i'll just [TS]

01:07:52   add a date but anyway that's it [TS]

01:07:55   everything I everyone i have my phone is [TS]

01:07:57   either some app that I turned it off for [TS]

01:07:59   or a game that doesn't look so that's it [TS]

01:08:01   Brian move [TS]

01:08:02   asks how did all of you meet initially [TS]

01:08:04   online through mac / software channels [TS]

01:08:07   or perhaps at a car dealership so I've [TS]

01:08:11   told this story in bits and pieces but I [TS]

01:08:15   don't know that I've ever told the [TS]

01:08:16   complete version of the story and part [TS]

01:08:18   of that is because I thought it was kind [TS]

01:08:19   of fun to have a little bit of ambiguity [TS]

01:08:22   about how the three of us met but 201 [TS]

01:08:25   episodes and perhaps it's time to to [TS]

01:08:27   remove all doubt [TS]

01:08:28   so mark when I met when we were 10 is [TS]

01:08:33   that sound reasonable something like [TS]

01:08:34   that something like that [TS]

01:08:35   my recollection and i'll give you a [TS]

01:08:37   chance to interrupt in the second year [TS]

01:08:38   Marco I'm my recollection is that that [TS]

01:08:41   your your mom was a schoolteacher and [TS]

01:08:43   for the summers you would go to a lake [TS]

01:08:45   in upstate New York and my grandparents [TS]

01:08:48   my dad's parents had a house on the same [TS]

01:08:50   Lake and it was one of those situations [TS]

01:08:52   where we like the only kids that were [TS]

01:08:55   anywhere nearby it came to light to our [TS]

01:08:58   mutual caregivers that o we have no boy [TS]

01:09:02   children around the same age they should [TS]

01:09:04   hangout and so we would hang out and [TS]

01:09:07   basically right either choose your own [TS]

01:09:09   adventure games in vb one or play too [TS]

01:09:11   much transport tycoon just generally be [TS]

01:09:13   nerds and get yelled at to go outside [TS]

01:09:15   and then we kind of lost touch for a [TS]

01:09:18   long time and around the time that [TS]

01:09:20   tumblr started or right around the time [TS]

01:09:23   that we graduated college at least [TS]

01:09:24   that's my recollection we got back in [TS]

01:09:27   touch and then I visited or well Aaron [TS]

01:09:29   and I at this point actually visited you [TS]

01:09:31   at tumblr and then ended up meeting up [TS]

01:09:33   with TIFF and I think this is it was 09 [TS]

01:09:35   yeah and so we got back in touch after [TS]

01:09:37   that and we and we got close again you [TS]

01:09:40   know there was never like a screw you [TS]

01:09:41   man i hate you it was just we fell out [TS]

01:09:43   of touch and so we got close again and [TS]

01:09:45   then of course because of that I started [TS]

01:09:47   listening build analyzed hypocritical [TS]

01:09:48   and then when we when i started going to [TS]

01:09:50   WTC in 2011 i ended up meeting John [TS]

01:09:52   through Marco and then John and I kind [TS]

01:09:55   of got to be friendly and then [TS]

01:09:56   eventually got to be relatively close [TS]

01:09:58   and then you know the whole story of [TS]

01:10:00   mean needling mark kohaykewych to a car [TS]

01:10:02   show we should do a car show Marco said [TS]

01:10:03   hey you know we should we get John [TS]

01:10:05   involved because you know John also just [TS]

01:10:06   stopped a podcast would probably like to [TS]

01:10:08   talk cars and so we sweet we did neutral [TS]

01:10:11   and then then here we are in on ATP 201 [TS]

01:10:14   episodes later [TS]

01:10:15   as brief as I think I can reasonably [TS]

01:10:17   make it pretty good [TS]

01:10:18   any thoughts from either of you there's [TS]

01:10:20   no thoughts no time for thoughts haha [TS]

01:10:24   Cody mins asks questions mostly from [TS]

01:10:26   Marco why do you give stitcher / google [TS]

01:10:28   play music flak for being a podcast [TS]

01:10:30   walled garden but not itunes not saying [TS]

01:10:33   that not bad for other reasons but [TS]

01:10:34   itunes isn't exactly the Wild West [TS]

01:10:37   this is a pretty easy one it's a [TS]

01:10:38   question of degree itunes is a directory [TS]

01:10:41   of public RSS feeds [TS]

01:10:43   once you subscribe to a podcast in [TS]

01:10:45   itunes the software then goes directly [TS]

01:10:47   to the RSS feed every single time [TS]

01:10:49   download the episodes directly from your [TS]

01:10:51   server where you specify the feed 2.2 [TS]

01:10:53   and itunes is basically out of the loop [TS]

01:10:55   after that very first you know browse [TS]

01:10:58   and subscribe action that's it [TS]

01:11:00   so we're a stitcher and google play [TS]

01:11:02   music are their own entirely proprietary [TS]

01:11:05   crawling playback stats downloading [TS]

01:11:09   platforms and they have you have to like [TS]

01:11:12   you know do all sorts of like you know [TS]

01:11:14   giving up data to them and and agree to [TS]

01:11:16   the terms and everything we're itunes as [TS]

01:11:17   writers really like you know about as [TS]

01:11:19   much of a directory as yahoo was for the [TS]

01:11:21   web back in the day like like itunes is [TS]

01:11:23   happy to have you go there find what you [TS]

01:11:26   want and then itunes is removed from the [TS]

01:11:29   loop [TS]

01:11:29   they're cut out of the loop and then [TS]

01:11:30   you're just dealing with the feet so [TS]

01:11:32   basically the way Apple those things [TS]

01:11:33   with podcast is in support of an open [TS]

01:11:37   ecosystem whereas the way stitcher and [TS]

01:11:40   whooping music are doing podcasts it is [TS]

01:11:43   a completely closed ecosystem that [TS]

01:11:45   simply use your RSS feed as input but [TS]

01:11:47   then copies over your audio rehost sit [TS]

01:11:50   has everybody just participate within [TS]

01:11:52   that system and its it's more likely [TS]

01:11:54   cheating off of the open world rather [TS]

01:11:57   than what Apple does which is really [TS]

01:11:58   participating in it and then kind of [TS]

01:12:00   handing you off to it the other minor [TS]

01:12:02   difference that i would add is that it's [TS]

01:12:03   too late for itunes itunes it is a [TS]

01:12:05   problem that everything is so [TS]

01:12:07   centralized in itunes [TS]

01:12:08   I mean it's a benefit obviously that's a [TS]

01:12:09   place where you go to find your podcast [TS]

01:12:11   but it's also problem but it's way too [TS]

01:12:12   late [TS]

01:12:12   like that time we got into it I hydrants [TS]

01:12:14   was already there so it is more useful [TS]

01:12:16   in general to complain about the [TS]

01:12:18   up-and-comers to say you knew thing that [TS]

01:12:21   is coming that seems to be worse and all [TS]

01:12:22   the way the market is described stop [TS]

01:12:24   doing that [TS]

01:12:25   go away whereas by the time we can [TS]

01:12:27   the scenes itunes was already the winner [TS]

01:12:29   of where you find podcast if you are a [TS]

01:12:31   Mac user also like the the itunes as a [TS]

01:12:34   directory is that it's actually really [TS]

01:12:36   nice to have a human monitor directory [TS]

01:12:40   in podcasting yeah I said it's a benefit [TS]

01:12:42   but it's also you know not not great [TS]

01:12:46   that one company controls that because [TS]

01:12:47   again available decide they don't care [TS]

01:12:48   then then we are left to the Wolves the [TS]

01:12:50   mystery google play and stir well [TS]

01:12:53   unfortunately i felt a little thing on [TS]

01:12:54   the side that has its own directory that [TS]

01:12:56   you know kinda it as an insurance policy [TS]

01:12:58   against that friend of the show Ryan [TS]

01:13:00   Jones who you heard us talking about [TS]

01:13:02   earlier today author of whether line [TS]

01:13:04   great weather at my favorite weather at [TS]

01:13:06   it's been five years since Steve Jobs [TS]

01:13:08   died hows Apple doing relative to your [TS]

01:13:10   expectations shortly after his death [TS]

01:13:12   get out you guys this is the big [TS]

01:13:14   challenge I ready right relatives so we [TS]

01:13:17   despite the fact that we've been [TS]

01:13:19   complaining earlier this episode i think [TS]

01:13:21   that all things being equal this is at [TS]

01:13:25   least meeting my expectations if not [TS]

01:13:28   exceeding I think Apple has its problems [TS]

01:13:31   but it's doing well and I'm okay with [TS]

01:13:32   this [TS]

01:13:33   good job crazy here at Fargo alright i [TS]

01:13:36   think somewhere between healthy and [TS]

01:13:38   steve ballmer haha that's a big range [TS]

01:13:41   anywhere between maybe like like a third [TS]

01:13:46   of the way away from steve ballmer so I [TS]

01:13:48   closer to that than healthy but not like [TS]

01:13:51   right on top of that and what I mean by [TS]

01:13:53   that you know Steve Ballmer is able to [TS]

01:13:54   continue microsoft into very profitable [TS]

01:13:58   times he's a very good businessman to [TS]

01:14:00   keep things going but he was clearly not [TS]

01:14:04   able to identify future product [TS]

01:14:06   direction that needed to happen and turn [TS]

01:14:08   the company into that I think Tim Cook [TS]

01:14:12   has much of the same issue not as badly [TS]

01:14:14   i think is a much better leader than [TS]

01:14:17   Steve Ballmer especially you know in [TS]

01:14:19   lots of ways but especially in product [TS]

01:14:21   in product direction but i still think [TS]

01:14:23   he has that problem and i still think [TS]

01:14:26   that when the next big things come apple [TS]

01:14:29   will miss them and it's just a matter of [TS]

01:14:30   time before that's a big problem for [TS]

01:14:32   them John [TS]

01:14:34   so I think there i'm going to say they [TS]

01:14:37   are falling slightly short of [TS]

01:14:39   masturbation [TS]

01:14:40   mostly meeting them like if you said [TS]

01:14:42   what do you think I'm gonna be like I [TS]

01:14:43   would describe the scenario very similar [TS]

01:14:44   to where we are now with the exception [TS]

01:14:46   that i would I i would have said that at [TS]

01:14:48   least one of the few things that apple [TS]

01:14:49   would try would hit stronger than it has [TS]

01:14:51   whether it's the watch your car or [TS]

01:14:53   whatever so I think they're slightly [TS]

01:14:54   under but not by much I in other words [TS]

01:14:56   i'm not shocked about where their i [TS]

01:14:58   think that's it that's a good way of [TS]

01:14:59   looking at it [TS]

01:15:00   Ryan continues of the necessary apps [TS]

01:15:02   podcast player notes Twitter photos mail [TS]

01:15:04   centre which you leave satisfied with in [TS]

01:15:07   other words what app that you use [TS]

01:15:08   everyday because it's the best available [TS]

01:15:09   to you still not love all start in and I [TS]

01:15:12   don't know if he intended to limit this [TS]

01:15:15   to iOS or not i will give to answer is [TS]

01:15:17   very quickly number one [TS]

01:15:19   overcast for the mac number two [TS]

01:15:22   slack slack is a dumpster fire on the [TS]

01:15:25   mac and i hate it but it's the best [TS]

01:15:27   option available [TS]

01:15:29   yeah i'm gonna go photos photos is an [TS]

01:15:31   app that like I use it constantly [TS]

01:15:34   it is a big part of my life both on iOS [TS]

01:15:37   and the mac the the iOS is mostly [TS]

01:15:38   capture the mac is mostly you know [TS]

01:15:40   curation of the collection editing [TS]

01:15:42   importing from cameras and then you know [TS]

01:15:44   picking through and doing minor edits if [TS]

01:15:46   the the iCloud photo library sync system [TS]

01:15:49   is great i I've never had problems with [TS]

01:15:51   it is wonderfully convenient it works [TS]

01:15:54   quickly and reliably the vast majority [TS]

01:15:55   of the time for me so the system is [TS]

01:15:58   great however the Photos app especially [TS]

01:16:00   on the mac is very frustrating for me to [TS]

01:16:03   use to do anything beyond getting the [TS]

01:16:07   photo like it's nice that thinks that's [TS]

01:16:09   what that's wonderful but then once I [TS]

01:16:10   want to do anything with the pictures [TS]

01:16:12   but whether it's as simple as like you [TS]

01:16:14   know when I have the UH I took 50 photos [TS]

01:16:16   during this event and i want to narrow [TS]

01:16:17   down to 10 like photos on the mac is [TS]

01:16:20   just the worst in the world for that [TS]

01:16:21   like it is so clunky is it is so like [TS]

01:16:23   unnecessarily clunky it even doing basic [TS]

01:16:27   editing operations have to wait and sit [TS]

01:16:28   through those animations and mode [TS]

01:16:30   switches and everything it's every it [TS]

01:16:32   basically seems like it's fighting me [TS]

01:16:34   doing anything even the most basic [TS]

01:16:36   operations that everybody would want to [TS]

01:16:38   do with the photo app but i do love the [TS]

01:16:41   sinking so much that tolerate that but I [TS]

01:16:44   do wish the Apple was better official [TS]

01:16:46   mac John the last question was the [TS]

01:16:48   challenge to try to try to simply say [TS]

01:16:50   how you think apples doing five years [TS]

01:16:52   after steve jobs gone [TS]

01:16:53   but instead marcos for 10 minutes on the [TS]

01:16:54   photos up about 10 minutes like to yeah [TS]

01:16:59   so I'll i would basically agree with him [TS]

01:17:01   is I mean I don't love photos i love [TS]

01:17:05   some parts but everything I agree with [TS]

01:17:06   everything Marco said about dealing with [TS]

01:17:08   the app it could be better but the the [TS]

01:17:09   other contender that I mean I also kind [TS]

01:17:12   of agree with casey us like but I kind [TS]

01:17:13   of do love slack you despite all its [TS]

01:17:17   gross pneus like eating a white castle [TS]

01:17:20   yeah the other contender though is a [TS]

01:17:21   another situation where I'm being left [TS]

01:17:24   behind for explicable reasons this this [TS]

01:17:26   time you know i know i am is my favorite [TS]

01:17:29   twitter client on the mac hasn't been [TS]

01:17:31   updated in forever because it's not [TS]

01:17:34   worthwhile for the developer to update [TS]

01:17:36   this but it is the only mac twitter app [TS]

01:17:38   that I like and it's frustrating to me [TS]

01:17:40   that it doesn't have so many features [TS]

01:17:41   and it's such a big mess because it just [TS]

01:17:44   hasn't been updated and I know why and I [TS]

01:17:46   just sit here clinging to it and using [TS]

01:17:48   it until it doesn't launch anymore and [TS]

01:17:49   then i'll be set and which happens that [TS]

01:17:51   because somebody will has twitterrific [TS]

01:17:52   for the mac which I still I still really [TS]

01:17:54   do like but it is so far behind the [TS]

01:17:57   state of the twitter at this point that [TS]

01:17:58   i can't recommend other people use it [TS]

01:18:01   anonymous asks apples priorities are [TS]

01:18:03   clearly iphone then watch then Mac an [TS]

01:18:06   ipad if you were Tim how are you how [TS]

01:18:09   would you rank them if i were to him i [TS]

01:18:11   would put mac for Hurst and that's that [TS]

01:18:13   the way this works i think the most [TS]

01:18:15   reasonable approach is iphone then ipad [TS]

01:18:18   then watch then Mac and that doesn't [TS]

01:18:21   please me to say that I don't want it to [TS]

01:18:23   be that way but I think that's the way [TS]

01:18:25   that makes the most sense [TS]

01:18:26   Marco I would probably try to [TS]

01:18:30   restructure the company and the [TS]

01:18:31   management incentives such that it was [TS]

01:18:33   not necessary to rank them like this [TS]

01:18:35   that's such a non-answer think that's [TS]

01:18:38   really possible as you break it off into [TS]

01:18:40   subsidiary is that are the i don't know [TS]

01:18:42   i think that's dodging ignition still [TS]

01:18:45   okay if I have to rank them it is it [TS]

01:18:48   I hate anyway if I had to rank them [TS]

01:18:50   iphone would still be first i would put [TS]

01:18:53   max second a ipad 3rd and watch forth [TS]

01:18:56   because that's basically the order in [TS]

01:18:58   which i think i think the order of their [TS]

01:19:00   importance along with the order in which [TS]

01:19:03   then the amount of attention they need [TS]

01:19:05   basically like the [TS]

01:19:06   watch is brand new and fairly young but [TS]

01:19:09   it doesn't actually do that much it's a [TS]

01:19:12   fairly simple product it's not that I [TS]

01:19:14   don't think it needs a ton of updating [TS]

01:19:16   you know especially like the three-point [TS]

01:19:18   was pretty good like they've gotten too [TS]

01:19:19   good a good spot now it's not really [TS]

01:19:22   dying for tons of updates the ipad is [TS]

01:19:25   you know it [TS]

01:19:27   the ipad is a lot of stuff for free [TS]

01:19:28   which advances in the iphone so it [TS]

01:19:30   doesn't need a lot of its own attention [TS]

01:19:31   it doesn't also justify love to [TS]

01:19:32   attention because of sales aren't that [TS]

01:19:33   good [TS]

01:19:34   whereas the Mac I the reason I put [TS]

01:19:36   second it to the iphone is that is not [TS]

01:19:38   only obviously do i love it but also i [TS]

01:19:40   think the mac needs more attention and [TS]

01:19:44   has more influence and hat and you know [TS]

01:19:46   just the it's it's more of a [TS]

01:19:48   foundational important part of the whole [TS]

01:19:50   market John alright i would go iphone [TS]

01:19:54   ipad Mac watch although i think this [TS]

01:19:57   list is not complete and i'm not [TS]

01:19:58   entirely sure that the order given is so [TS]

01:20:01   clearly apples priorities and the reason [TS]

01:20:03   i was obviously we all read an iphone [TS]

01:20:04   for us because I think that's to give me [TS]

01:20:05   the reason I'm putting ipad second is [TS]

01:20:08   because i think it has the potential is [TS]

01:20:10   the only thing in a plan that has the [TS]

01:20:12   potential to eventually someday do all [TS]

01:20:14   things that does and the watch is so [TS]

01:20:15   young and so new it should not have [TS]

01:20:17   priority over the ipad or the mac or the [TS]

01:20:19   iphone alright yeah also like you know [TS]

01:20:22   like the apple TV is missing from this [TS]

01:20:24   list like they're there are some things [TS]

01:20:26   apple does that aren't here but is not [TS]

01:20:29   complete [TS]

01:20:30   yeah but I would also say like the apple [TS]

01:20:31   TV is similar to the watch in that i'm [TS]

01:20:34   not sure it justifies a lot of [TS]

01:20:36   continuous investment because the reason [TS]

01:20:39   why the apple TV and the watch and the [TS]

01:20:42   ipad actually the what holds these [TS]

01:20:45   things back is not just like software [TS]

01:20:47   features or hardware updates it's like [TS]

01:20:49   ecosystem limitations around them that [TS]

01:20:52   just make it very difficult for them to [TS]

01:20:54   to meaningfully progress [TS]

01:20:56   dan Casspi asks do all of your wives [TS]

01:21:00   listen to the episodes do they find them [TS]

01:21:02   interesting [TS]

01:21:03   Aaron does not she does listen analog [TS]

01:21:05   she does not listen ATP Marco yeah tiff [TS]

01:21:08   listens to ATP she does not listen to [TS]

01:21:12   under the radar and she's in top for a [TS]

01:21:16   job [TS]

01:21:17   yes my life lessons to ATP I don't think [TS]

01:21:20   she finds an interesting in terms of the [TS]

01:21:21   subject matter what reason the only [TS]

01:21:23   reason you find interesting is because [TS]

01:21:25   her husband is on the show and and she [TS]

01:21:27   must be here if we say anything about [TS]

01:21:28   her thanks [TS]

01:21:30   hi Tina have you ever rejected an ad [TS]

01:21:32   this is still from dan cassie is we have [TS]

01:21:34   I can't think of any examples and it's [TS]

01:21:36   probably not mature of us to cite them [TS]

01:21:38   anyway but yes we have absolutely i can [TS]

01:21:40   get tons i mean that's like we reject [TS]

01:21:42   ads frequently and not like everyday but [TS]

01:21:46   like maybe every month or two we will [TS]

01:21:47   turn down a sponsor or we will even [TS]

01:21:50   decided to stop working with one that we [TS]

01:21:52   have worked with before there are lots [TS]

01:21:53   of reasons for this obviously there's a [TS]

01:21:54   lot of stuff that just we don't think [TS]

01:21:57   would be nice to advertise here or would [TS]

01:21:59   not fit the show well sometimes we will [TS]

01:22:02   we will drop a sponsor that we've had [TS]

01:22:03   if we get reports from from people that [TS]

01:22:06   their product isn't as good as we [TS]

01:22:07   thought it was [TS]

01:22:08   we also extrait ichika Lee we like we've [TS]

01:22:10   tried to reduce the amount of like [TS]

01:22:12   clothing companies and stuff like that [TS]

01:22:15   advertise with us and and increase more [TS]

01:22:17   like the tech relevant stuff there's [TS]

01:22:19   tons of sponsors out there that want to [TS]

01:22:21   sell you like a short description and [TS]

01:22:24   that's fine [TS]

01:22:25   I mean look last episode we have soccer [TS]

01:22:26   it was pretty fun experience the great [TS]

01:22:28   great spot but I don't want the [TS]

01:22:30   advertisers to all be that kind of stuff [TS]

01:22:32   because we're still a text shows i want [TS]

01:22:34   to have some kind of focus to make most [TS]

01:22:36   of the ads tech-related alright let's [TS]

01:22:38   take a break and speaking of sponsors [TS]

01:22:40   let's talk about one of the ones that is [TS]

01:22:41   awesome [TS]

01:22:42   it's a shirt subscription haha it's a [TS]

01:22:45   magical gris-gris be so great tho [TS]

01:22:48   mattress is a totally dig related [TS]

01:22:50   everybody sleeps but sometimes it gets [TS]

01:22:54   closer to that maybe that's why would [TS]

01:22:55   make it makes it harder system is like [TS]

01:22:57   these are like a lot of these are great [TS]

01:22:59   products like you know we usually won't [TS]

01:23:01   drop them just for that but like like [TS]

01:23:03   one thing that bugs me I just very [TS]

01:23:05   quickly one thing that really bugs me is [TS]

01:23:06   like things that are subscriptions that [TS]

01:23:08   really don't need to be that you're [TS]

01:23:10   probably not going to benefit from them [TS]

01:23:11   being subscriptions so like I don't mind [TS]

01:23:14   like a sock a one pair of socks a month [TS]

01:23:16   kind of thing because like you know [TS]

01:23:17   you're going to use socks that's cool [TS]

01:23:18   but I don't like are things that are [TS]

01:23:20   like bags of snacks for you know you [TS]

01:23:23   paid forty bucks a month and get some [TS]

01:23:25   bag of snacks delivered it's like that [TS]

01:23:27   how it just feels like it shouldn't be a [TS]

01:23:29   subscription you know right there's [TS]

01:23:30   there's one that like you know you can [TS]

01:23:32   like get [TS]

01:23:33   dog toys delivered for thirty bucks a [TS]

01:23:35   month like I had toys my dog every time [TS]

01:23:38   with the dog store i would never reach [TS]

01:23:40   30 bucks a month worth of total in [TS]

01:23:41   investment in there like it's Christmas [TS]

01:23:44   it but there's like certain things I i [TS]

01:23:46   will i will outright reject just because [TS]

01:23:48   it's like I think that's BS to be a [TS]

01:23:51   subscription but yeah so anyway response [TS]

01:23:56   to this week by Casper and specially [TS]

01:23:58   engineered mattress and a shockingly [TS]

01:23:59   fair price go to Casper calm / ATP and [TS]

01:24:02   use code ATP for fifty dollars towards [TS]

01:24:05   your mattress Casper creative one [TS]

01:24:07   perfect mattress sold directly to [TS]

01:24:08   consumers eliminating Commission driven [TS]

01:24:10   inflated prices the award-winning [TS]

01:24:12   capture mattress was developed in-house [TS]

01:24:14   by their engineers has a sleek design [TS]

01:24:16   and delivered in a remarkably small box [TS]

01:24:18   you can get up narrow staircase is if [TS]

01:24:20   you need to and now in addition to the [TS]

01:24:22   mattress Casper also offers an adaptive [TS]

01:24:24   pillow and soft breathable sheets [TS]

01:24:26   imagine nation Israel let's face it i [TS]

01:24:28   mean you onto a mattress store like you [TS]

01:24:31   know like weirdly walk around with some [TS]

01:24:33   salesmen hovering over you try to lie [TS]

01:24:35   down on the mattress for like three [TS]

01:24:36   seconds like okay I guess I want to [TS]

01:24:37   spend my life on this like that's not a [TS]

01:24:39   great way to buy a mattress and the [TS]

01:24:41   prices are really really high and its [TS]

01:24:43   high pressure sales they're usually [TS]

01:24:44   Commission driven it's not a great [TS]

01:24:47   system for consumers Casper has flipped [TS]

01:24:49   on its head [TS]

01:24:50   the mattress industry they don't even [TS]

01:24:52   know what to do about Casper like [TS]

01:24:53   they're they're freaking out probably [TS]

01:24:54   should be at least Castro's revolution [TS]

01:24:55   in the industry they cut the cost of [TS]

01:24:57   dealing with these retailers and [TS]

01:24:58   showrooms and pass the savings directly [TS]

01:25:00   onto you [TS]

01:25:01   now their mattress was developed with [TS]

01:25:03   thousands of hours of their in-house [TS]

01:25:04   engineering team time is an amazing [TS]

01:25:07   combination of spring latex foam and [TS]

01:25:09   supportive memory foam for just the [TS]

01:25:11   right sink and just the right bounds and [TS]

01:25:13   this is a breathable design that unlike [TS]

01:25:15   pure memory foam this helps you feel [TS]

01:25:18   cool it it doesn't surround you with [TS]

01:25:20   like heat and and like constantly too [TS]

01:25:23   much heat like the way memory foam can [TS]

01:25:25   for a lot of people and so it you can [TS]

01:25:26   regulate temperature properly throughout [TS]

01:25:28   the night and all this is available for [TS]

01:25:30   shockingly fair price and normally a [TS]

01:25:32   really nice mattress you're going to pay [TS]

01:25:33   them back two thousand dollars for [TS]

01:25:34   really Casper 500 hours for twin 640 XL [TS]

01:25:39   754 full 854 a queen and just 954 King [TS]

01:25:43   this is really about half the price of [TS]

01:25:44   what you're going to pay for most [TS]

01:25:45   mattresses [TS]

01:25:46   quality and all these mattresses by [TS]

01:25:48   Casper are made in America there's also [TS]

01:25:51   you know they've they've taken the [TS]

01:25:53   problem of like how do you know what [TS]

01:25:54   you're gonna like it or not you know [TS]

01:25:55   you're not gonna just like line of the [TS]

01:25:57   store for three minutes also buying [TS]

01:25:59   online obviously sounds crazy to say [TS]

01:26:00   they've taken care of you with this is [TS]

01:26:02   completely risk-free you can try it with [TS]

01:26:04   free delivery and free returns with home [TS]

01:26:07   pick up if you don't like it with a [TS]

01:26:09   hundred knight home trial so if you [TS]

01:26:12   don't love it you have a hundred times [TS]

01:26:13   to decide that and they will pick it up [TS]

01:26:15   at your house and give you a full refund [TS]

01:26:17   if you if you want to send it back [TS]

01:26:18   it is easy and we've had we've had [TS]

01:26:20   people tell us they love it and they [TS]

01:26:21   keep it is awesome [TS]

01:26:22   we've also had a few people writing to [TS]

01:26:24   say you know what it wasn't for me and [TS]

01:26:26   the return process was amazing [TS]

01:26:28   so either way you win it's totally [TS]

01:26:30   risk-free Casper understands how [TS]

01:26:32   important this is to really truly sleep [TS]

01:26:34   on it so you know is right for you or [TS]

01:26:35   not to check it out today [TS]

01:26:37   get yours today try for a hundred [TS]

01:26:38   Knights in your own home with free [TS]

01:26:40   delivery and free painless returns [TS]

01:26:42   completely risk-free to Casper calm / [TS]

01:26:45   ATP and use code ATP for fifty dollars [TS]

01:26:49   towards your mattress [TS]

01:26:50   thank you very much to catch for [TS]

01:26:51   sponsoring our show called you know asks [TS]

01:26:55   i was wondering if there's been any new [TS]

01:26:57   tool software hardware that you've [TS]

01:26:58   started using in 2016 at work at home [TS]

01:27:00   that you think deserves a shout-out or [TS]

01:27:02   additional recognition [TS]

01:27:04   this is a fantastic question to which i [TS]

01:27:08   can't think of any good answer and [TS]

01:27:11   that's unfortunate the system working as [TS]

01:27:12   design because if you can't think of it [TS]

01:27:14   a couple seconds you have to pass [TS]

01:27:16   yep that's pass i'm gonna go with get [TS]

01:27:19   sub modules and especially using the [TS]

01:27:21   music [TS]

01:27:22   yeah exactly it's crazy this is a [TS]

01:27:24   holiday party talking this is like real [TS]

01:27:25   and and using them as a bird in [TS]

01:27:27   particular with to get our app for the [TS]

01:27:29   mac i think it's called tower now the [TS]

01:27:31   tower after the mac oh that is fantastic [TS]

01:27:33   that I love tower yeah so i use i mean i [TS]

01:27:36   have i've tried many things over the [TS]

01:27:39   years to to basically try to solve like [TS]

01:27:42   how do i import other libraries are [TS]

01:27:45   written by myself for like open source [TS]

01:27:46   projects into you know how imports [TS]

01:27:49   shared code to my apps and manage that [TS]

01:27:50   and there's things like cocoa pods and [TS]

01:27:52   that kind of dependency manager is also [TS]

01:27:54   obviously methods like just copy the [TS]

01:27:56   directory over and sticking your project [TS]

01:27:58   and there's there's get [TS]

01:27:59   sub trees & sub modules i have no idea [TS]

01:28:02   why the two different things [TS]

01:28:04   please don't write in the email to [TS]

01:28:05   explain i don't care but thank you [TS]

01:28:07   anyway but i have i've recently settled [TS]

01:28:10   on sub-modules especially as managed by [TS]

01:28:13   get our this wonderful mac app that i [TS]

01:28:16   love so much just called our troops and [TS]

01:28:19   it is finally a system that i'm sticking [TS]

01:28:23   with and I'm very happy when I stuck [TS]

01:28:24   with it now for a while I think it's [TS]

01:28:26   been at least six months which is [TS]

01:28:27   probably long as one of the systems not [TS]

01:28:29   hated that it's great i have lots of my [TS]

01:28:32   own shared libraries in here it's [TS]

01:28:34   wonderful and its overall while it is [TS]

01:28:36   not perfect and while the raw get way to [TS]

01:28:39   do sub-modules is comically obtuse just [TS]

01:28:42   like most of get and when you managing [TS]

01:28:43   the GUI tool it's not too bad and and it [TS]

01:28:46   is by far the lowest hassle and least [TS]

01:28:50   fragile of these systems i've ever used [TS]

01:28:52   that makes me think I have been fighting [TS]

01:28:56   cocoapods left and right at work lately [TS]

01:28:59   yeah you don't need to just stop it i'm [TS]

01:29:01   telling you it's so much better this way [TS]

01:29:02   i'm not convinced sub-modules right [TS]

01:29:05   answer however i'm really interested in [TS]

01:29:08   Punic which is a cleanroom [TS]

01:29:10   re-implementation of Carthage done by [TS]

01:29:12   schwa on Twitter and I forget his name [TS]

01:29:16   on top my head holy crap what a pleasant [TS]

01:29:18   person he tell you that there's that but [TS]

01:29:20   anyway I've heard understood the Punic [TS]

01:29:23   is very good i'd love to try it and so I [TS]

01:29:25   I can't say that that is definitely my [TS]

01:29:27   answer Jonathan Whyte that's right thank [TS]

01:29:29   you saying the geek [TS]

01:29:30   anyway i would i would love to give [TS]

01:29:32   Peter a shot though John i mostly I'll [TS]

01:29:35   take a pass miss but I when I read the [TS]

01:29:37   question I realized in the letter of the [TS]

01:29:38   question I have I do everything you know [TS]

01:29:40   a new tool software hardware then you [TS]

01:29:42   started using 2016 you think deserve a [TS]

01:29:45   shout-out I think the much faster touch [TS]

01:29:47   ID the entire world has been using for a [TS]

01:29:49   year and a half it's awesome and I love [TS]

01:29:51   the fact that my iphone 7 unlocked so [TS]

01:29:53   quickly it's like magic is really it is [TS]

01:29:56   the I think it's the most significant [TS]

01:29:58   change on the iphone 7 that I've [TS]

01:30:00   appreciated [TS]

01:30:01   maybe second to the speed of light [TS]

01:30:03   enough you know in general [TS]

01:30:04   Chris family asks for Casey and John any [TS]

01:30:07   desire to become independent desire yes [TS]

01:30:10   but strength of soul strength of [TS]

01:30:15   character probably not i i i recognize [TS]

01:30:18   that that having a jobby job is not [TS]

01:30:23   really any more stable than having a [TS]

01:30:26   completely independent lifestyle but it [TS]

01:30:28   feels more stable and has health [TS]

01:30:30   insurance and and so right now I really [TS]

01:30:34   like my job I've been there since [TS]

01:30:35   fabruary I really really like it and I [TS]

01:30:37   don't plan to leave but we'll see what [TS]

01:30:39   happens [TS]

01:30:39   john is a similar desire yes but a much [TS]

01:30:43   larger helping of fear [TS]

01:30:45   yeah exactly for Marco still from chris [TS]

01:30:48   any desire to start companies something [TS]

01:30:50   with more than three or four employees [TS]

01:30:52   no not even a little i am terrible at [TS]

01:30:55   managing people i don't enjoy managing [TS]

01:30:57   people i really don't enjoy the idea of [TS]

01:31:00   having to manage investors which that [TS]

01:31:01   would probably require and so no I'm [TS]

01:31:05   very happy limiting myself to just what [TS]

01:31:08   i can do on my own [TS]

01:31:10   fair enough for all of us who would win [TS]

01:31:14   a 100-metre sprint maybe me but quite [TS]

01:31:18   possibly John and in a 5k race i have no [TS]

01:31:21   idea you guys the hundred-meter I'm i [TS]

01:31:24   don't i don't know I'd like i'm not good [TS]

01:31:27   at sprinting so i probably have to give [TS]

01:31:29   that one to kc 5k i win i think that's [TS]

01:31:32   probably fair a wire 3d movies terrible [TS]

01:31:35   because it's just a gimmick Marco any [TS]

01:31:37   thoughts [TS]

01:31:38   I have never seen one so I can't answer [TS]

01:31:41   now you're better off cost the best [TS]

01:31:43   Marco answer her [TS]

01:31:45   are you surprised is really surprised [TS]

01:31:48   right he's terrible job for the terrible [TS]

01:31:54   serial it's all right i mean then I mean [TS]

01:31:56   terrible whatever the problem with 3d [TS]

01:31:59   movies is when we see the world with our [TS]

01:32:02   two eyeballs we can choose what to focus [TS]

01:32:04   on 3d movies [TS]

01:32:06   you can't do that 3d movies choose what [TS]

01:32:08   to focus on for years they have 3d [TS]

01:32:10   effect or you wear it seems like things [TS]

01:32:11   are closer to you and farther away but [TS]

01:32:13   if you decide to look at the background [TS]

01:32:14   doesn't suddenly come into focus and so [TS]

01:32:16   it's not like the real-world experience [TS]

01:32:18   but it's also not a flat picture like a [TS]

01:32:20   regular movie and so it's uncomfortable [TS]

01:32:22   middle ground [TS]

01:32:23   that i personally find terrible that is [TS]

01:32:26   an annoyingly good answer dream of [TS]

01:32:30   five-car garage [TS]

01:32:31   god i wish i had looked at this before [TS]

01:32:32   the show I made in parentheses 1 million [TS]

01:32:36   dollar budget like well which is it [TS]

01:32:38   well I think it's like let's say the [TS]

01:32:40   best five cars you can buy for a million [TS]

01:32:43   or less yeah just right on office [TS]

01:32:45   lighting around front [TS]

01:32:46   alright so i asked martin DBS that's [TS]

01:32:49   what like a quarter-million 200,000 I [TS]

01:32:51   jeep wrangler and no I'm serious I'm [TS]

01:32:57   really serious there's less fun of your [TS]

01:32:59   list intern I so ask martin DBS jeep [TS]

01:33:02   wrangler i bmw m3 porsche cayenne turbo [TS]

01:33:10   that's I think what I think you're over [TS]

01:33:12   you know you're on my over-budget [TS]

01:33:14   reliably know what did I would say stay [TS]

01:33:17   within budget and just stopped short [TS]

01:33:18   when you're done with when you use know [TS]

01:33:20   what I think your way the DBS is like [TS]

01:33:22   let's call it 200 the kind of wondered [TS]

01:33:25   what are you kidding i think you need a [TS]

01:33:26   price that out oh all right fine I'll [TS]

01:33:28   just call for sure the impression [TS]

01:33:29   probably has like 19 options alone [TS]

01:33:32   go ahead that's what I will just stop it [TS]

01:33:35   for then all right let's go to John [TS]

01:33:37   since I feel like I've been going to [TS]

01:33:38   Marco first for a lot so that's John [TS]

01:33:40   let's go to Eunice I i'm going to say [TS]

01:33:42   ferrari 488 ferrari 458 better since you [TS]

01:33:48   used a used BMW m3 the reunion 4346 [TS]

01:33:54   generation the one that I like all slow [TS]

01:33:56   down why because that's the m3 that I [TS]

01:33:57   like I like how it looks [TS]

01:33:59   I don't like how the new ones look but i [TS]

01:34:01   want that I want that type of car and [TS]

01:34:04   mercedes s-class really okay Marco I go [TS]

01:34:08   Tesla 100d if that doesn't exist yet p [TS]

01:34:12   100d number two would be asked Martin [TS]

01:34:15   whatever aston martin is cool and sexy I [TS]

01:34:17   don't keep trying to do which ones they [TS]

01:34:18   are its people anyways yeah what's wrong [TS]

01:34:21   with the two-door one they're not the [TS]

01:34:23   crazy for abomination [TS]

01:34:24   so yeah one of those of course and some [TS]

01:34:27   kind of like small simple stick shift [TS]

01:34:30   two-door car whether it's a Cayenne I'm [TS]

01:34:34   sorry whether that's a caiman sorry [TS]

01:34:35   oh my god so [TS]

01:34:37   your apology's yeah weather came in or [TS]

01:34:40   an end to it probably one of those you [TS]

01:34:43   know and then the other two spots i [TS]

01:34:45   would just leave like I'd fill spots 13 [TS]

01:34:48   and five and just leave spots too and [TS]

01:34:49   for mtv's have room because i love a [TS]

01:34:51   garage with space walk around don't have [TS]

01:34:54   that and I've never i believe i've only [TS]

01:34:56   ever had very crowded garages in my life [TS]

01:34:58   so like space would be an amazing luxury [TS]

01:35:00   you don't know crowd and garages usually [TS]

01:35:04   told i do not have a cavernous garage [TS]

01:35:07   but both Marco and John have you even [TS]

01:35:09   met garage [TS]

01:35:10   mine is by far the smallest also i want [TS]

01:35:11   to change my answer i forgot the model [TS]

01:35:13   as I was thrown in there a budget left [TS]

01:35:15   yeah that's a good call that's good call [TS]

01:35:17   program start have says what is the best [TS]

01:35:19   TV show movie podcast of 2016 [TS]

01:35:22   I feel like I should have an answer for [TS]

01:35:23   this it's ours anyone yet totally [TS]

01:35:26   actually know what i think it was in [TS]

01:35:27   2016 that I discovered on 99 percent [TS]

01:35:30   invisible which I know everyone else on [TS]

01:35:32   the planet has been listening to for [TS]

01:35:33   years yet but i really loved nine [TS]

01:35:35   percent visible and i just discovered it [TS]

01:35:37   this year so that'll be my answer [TS]

01:35:39   john thinks there you go to Marco Marco [TS]

01:35:42   hasn't seen a TV shows movies are [TS]

01:35:43   probably hasn't always yeah I Star Wars [TS]

01:35:46   yeah and then do I saw Dorie the finding [TS]

01:35:49   Dory thing with my kid I wouldn't best [TS]

01:35:52   i'm gonna do best one of each because [TS]

01:35:55   they'll turn into a couple episode I'm [TS]

01:35:56   just gonna say best TV show of my memory [TS]

01:35:59   so short so i could be forgetting [TS]

01:36:00   something important but West world is [TS]

01:36:01   the most recent in my mind that's that I [TS]

01:36:03   think it's my favorite TV show of this [TS]

01:36:05   year and podcast who knows and movie who [TS]

01:36:08   knows [TS]

01:36:08   Marco I think my favorite podcast of the [TS]

01:36:14   year might be upgrade its you notice [TS]

01:36:19   that the show with Jason's now my curly [TS]

01:36:20   and it's basically like a text [TS]

01:36:22   commentary show not too different from [TS]

01:36:24   this they just do a really really good [TS]

01:36:26   job of it so i'm a big fan that overall [TS]

01:36:28   I would say my favorite new podcast [TS]

01:36:31   recently even though that wasn't part of [TS]

01:36:33   the question is due by friday by Merlin [TS]

01:36:36   Mann max Temkin out cocks it is so [TS]

01:36:38   incredibly funny it's pretty new so [TS]

01:36:40   lonely they're like 45 present but my [TS]

01:36:43   god it's funny it's just amazing so that [TS]

01:36:45   is that is a perfect show [TS]

01:36:47   alright still from program how do you [TS]

01:36:49   usually pick us [TS]

01:36:50   three loved ones are you good gift [TS]

01:36:51   givers I I I feel like every third or [TS]

01:36:55   fourth year i do really well and the [TS]

01:36:57   rest of the time I'm a frigging disaster [TS]

01:37:00   Marco not too much better about the same [TS]

01:37:04   the main problem is that that TIFF and I [TS]

01:37:06   like we will like by each other like [TS]

01:37:09   cool things throughout the whole years [TS]

01:37:10   when it comes time for a holiday it's [TS]

01:37:13   often like you know well I was impatient [TS]

01:37:15   two months ago and bought you this thing [TS]

01:37:17   for like happy wednesday and now there's [TS]

01:37:19   nothing left [TS]

01:37:20   yeah John i am a terrible gift giver and [TS]

01:37:24   how do i pick gives badly in desperation [TS]

01:37:28   hopefully with help its is a disaster [TS]

01:37:32   totally you are an impressively bad gift [TS]

01:37:34   receiver as well [TS]

01:37:35   yes is also amazing i would i would [TS]

01:37:37   abolish all the whole gifting that I i [TS]

01:37:41   hope my gift my wish for the world is [TS]

01:37:44   that all of you get a chance to at some [TS]

01:37:46   point witness John siracusa opening [TS]

01:37:48   presents it to give me a prank gift of a [TS]

01:37:52   giant thing of sprite so I prank gifts i [TS]

01:37:55   feel like i receive with a with the [TS]

01:37:58   ill-mannered appropriately but even [TS]

01:38:00   given the real gift that you open up [TS]

01:38:01   before and after that it was something [TS]

01:38:03   to see [TS]

01:38:04   it's true alright moving on Johnny [TS]

01:38:07   cirillo says cancer cases is a pioneer [TS]

01:38:09   in podcasting and podcast format among [TS]

01:38:11   other touchstones like each OS 10 [TS]

01:38:13   reviews cgpgrey has said that he is one [TS]

01:38:15   of these podcasting heroes Marco Arment [TS]

01:38:17   his reputation from co-founding tumblr [TS]

01:38:19   to being the independent app developer [TS]

01:38:20   and and able to be independent because [TS]

01:38:22   of the app store he solicited proaches [TS]

01:38:24   the trio from the opposite and i'm not [TS]

01:38:26   sure if that's good or bad [TS]

01:38:27   where his friendship with Marco has [TS]

01:38:28   exposed talents on the show itself ok [TS]

01:38:30   good how each of you manage this Fame [TS]

01:38:33   like stature reputation and independence [TS]

01:38:35   of a show as great as ATP thank you are [TS]

01:38:38   their predecessors each of you have [TS]

01:38:40   learned from i will start my [TS]

01:38:42   predecessors are Marco Arment and John [TS]

01:38:44   siracusa and I say that both plus [TS]

01:38:46   microbots and also because it's actually [TS]

01:38:47   true getting warm i was a jackal was [TS]

01:38:51   that I was a jackal on the five by five [TS]

01:38:53   chat room i genuinely loved both of [TS]

01:38:55   their shows it was both of their shows [TS]

01:38:56   that got me into podcasts [TS]

01:39:00   and I really really mean that I [TS]

01:39:03   certainly admire many many many many [TS]

01:39:05   many other podcasters like my curly and [TS]

01:39:08   Jason smell of upgrade at like Stephen [TS]

01:39:11   Hackett as some examples but it was [TS]

01:39:14   gianmarco that really got me into [TS]

01:39:16   podcasts and so I really appreciate the [TS]

01:39:17   two of them [TS]

01:39:18   Marco yeah I i basically i have i've [TS]

01:39:21   learned a lot from other podcasters [TS]

01:39:24   people you know people like you look [TS]

01:39:26   nice today people that was a very very [TS]

01:39:29   strong influence on me and my style my [TS]

01:39:32   editing style also early on i I'd had [TS]

01:39:35   their way better than me at it but you [TS]

01:39:36   know that's kind of who I'm imitating a [TS]

01:39:38   lot of the time I've also learned a lot [TS]

01:39:41   from earlier podcast pioneers in this [TS]

01:39:43   space people like damn Benjamin john [TS]

01:39:45   gruber and and as as relay and Mike and [TS]

01:39:50   Steven and the crowd over there have [TS]

01:39:51   have really developed way bigger and [TS]

01:39:55   wider than a lot of us can can do with [TS]

01:39:58   just like one or two shows here and [TS]

01:39:59   there [TS]

01:39:59   I'm learning a lot from what they're [TS]

01:40:00   doing as well and outside of the [TS]

01:40:03   immediate podcasting ecosystem [TS]

01:40:05   I also learned a lot from howard stern [TS]

01:40:06   listen a lot a lot of that isn't as an [TS]

01:40:09   as an adult I don't much anymore because [TS]

01:40:10   we basically can't listen whenever our [TS]

01:40:12   kids around which is increasingly [TS]

01:40:13   frequently so I don't listen a lot [TS]

01:40:15   anymore but I i did learn a lot from [TS]

01:40:18   howard stern's style [TS]

01:40:21   no not like that like sex stuff but just [TS]

01:40:23   his general speaking style his [TS]

01:40:25   impatience for boring this so I didn't [TS]

01:40:27   learn enough that and a lot of it some [TS]

01:40:32   of the ways he does things and some of [TS]

01:40:33   these principles John how do i should [TS]

01:40:36   have thought about this question more [TS]

01:40:38   beforehand is so many influences like [TS]

01:40:40   this but i always go back to the one [TS]

01:40:41   that the my main my is a singular main [TS]

01:40:45   podcasting influence that made me [TS]

01:40:46   understand what profits were as a medium [TS]

01:40:50   as a format or not you know that they [TS]

01:40:53   are thing and also made me believe that [TS]

01:40:57   it's a thing that I can do which are the [TS]

01:40:59   tooth ingredients you need to become [TS]

01:41:00   podcasting one know that exists and to [TS]

01:41:02   somehow believe that you think you can [TS]

01:41:04   make one that's more Lafferty who used [TS]

01:41:07   to do a podcast just a bunch of I guess [TS]

01:41:10   for people who want to be fiction [TS]

01:41:11   writers and she eventually became a [TS]

01:41:15   fiction writer and has written several [TS]

01:41:16   novels now and so she said the whole big [TS]

01:41:18   arc through that whole series and she [TS]

01:41:19   does a whole bunch of other podcasts [TS]

01:41:20   people in the market and you know I was [TS]

01:41:23   a writer do mostly technical writing [TS]

01:41:26   online in those days I wasn't writing [TS]

01:41:28   fiction but I like hearing podcast about [TS]

01:41:31   writing and just hearing her do a [TS]

01:41:33   podcast is her in front of microphones [TS]

01:41:35   to the pockets as I should be writing [TS]

01:41:37   sitting in front of a microphone in her [TS]

01:41:39   house talking i don't know how many [TS]

01:41:41   hours that I listened to and I thought [TS]

01:41:43   that podcast was great and I thought she [TS]

01:41:45   was great and I thought podcast were [TS]

01:41:46   great and I thought you know I have [TS]

01:41:48   things to say I could save them into a [TS]

01:41:50   microphone in my house too so I'm really [TS]

01:41:52   grateful pretty nice [TS]

01:41:55   Daniel Peters asks i was wondering what [TS]

01:41:57   each of you considered your favorite [TS]

01:41:58   apple product was that rose release this [TS]

01:42:01   year i was thinking about this earlier [TS]

01:42:03   actually and because it's our show and [TS]

01:42:06   in part my show I'm going to cheat and [TS]

01:42:08   use to apple products i freakin love the [TS]

01:42:12   air pods and I freaking love my iphone 7 [TS]

01:42:15   yes there's problems with both but truth [TS]

01:42:18   be told I really really love both of [TS]

01:42:21   these products i think the iphone 7 is [TS]

01:42:23   my favorite iphone ever in part because [TS]

01:42:26   i didn't get plus and the air pods are [TS]

01:42:29   really phenomenal so i really like both [TS]

01:42:30   of those John I'm going found 72 like we [TS]

01:42:34   talked about the the one feature but yet [TS]

01:42:36   that's personal Apple then release that [TS]

01:42:37   much this year that i had contact with [TS]

01:42:39   and I'd as much like their pods my new [TS]

01:42:42   iphone is definitely my favorite apple [TS]

01:42:43   thing that they release is here [TS]

01:42:44   yeah i'm gonna go iphone 7 overall [TS]

01:42:48   especially in particular the jet black [TS]

01:42:50   finish iphone 7 because the the actual [TS]

01:42:52   upgrade to the internals was was a [TS]

01:42:55   fairly minor upgrade from the success [TS]

01:42:56   but the the exterior change with with [TS]

01:43:00   that the jet black finishes is [TS]

01:43:02   substantial changes the way the phone [TS]

01:43:04   feels and makes it makes it able to be [TS]

01:43:06   used at a case for our people including [TS]

01:43:07   me so that's that's a pretty big change [TS]

01:43:09   i'm also going to give honorable mention [TS]

01:43:10   to the 9.7 inch iPad pro which I don't [TS]

01:43:14   use it to its full extent a ton but I do [TS]

01:43:17   use it very often it is my kitchen ipad [TS]

01:43:19   and it is my main podcast player in the [TS]

01:43:21   house while doing things [TS]

01:43:23   and so I'm using it frequently and no [TS]

01:43:25   matter how much or how little you use [TS]

01:43:27   your iPad 9.7 inch iPad pro is in my [TS]

01:43:30   opinion unquestionably the best i've had [TS]

01:43:32   ever made it is better than they usually [TS]

01:43:35   are even like you can always say like oh [TS]

01:43:37   this year this ipad was the best one [TS]

01:43:38   ever made but i think that point seven [TS]

01:43:40   pro is especially like especially clear [TS]

01:43:43   and unambiguously a great update and [TS]

01:43:46   just an awesome product all around and [TS]

01:43:48   there are basically no downsides to it [TS]

01:43:51   that aren't they don't apply to every [TS]

01:43:53   ipad and there's tons of upsides to it [TS]

01:43:55   so 9.7 inch ipad is a home run [TS]

01:43:58   oh meri behna me says I would really [TS]

01:44:00   like to hear how you do backup or share [TS]

01:44:02   your photos and your processing routines [TS]

01:44:04   I run out a challenge i wrote a blog [TS]

01:44:06   post about this will link in the show [TS]

01:44:08   notes boom [TS]

01:44:09   Marco backup is a super-duper clone a [TS]

01:44:14   time machine share my synology and [TS]

01:44:17   backblaze sharing photos and processing [TS]

01:44:21   routines a whole different question I 08 [TS]

01:44:25   this is sorry i misplaced the / in the [TS]

01:44:28   way parts the sentence is about what i [TS]

01:44:33   thought was different question about how [TS]

01:44:34   do you backup period and also if then [TS]

01:44:37   how do you share your photos [TS]

01:44:38   that's not how i read it i read it as [TS]

01:44:41   heavy backup / share your photos but it [TS]

01:44:42   could be either way it could be either [TS]

01:44:44   way anyway that's how I back up my [TS]

01:44:46   photos are included in the back seat [TS]

01:44:48   covers and and how do i and my photo [TS]

01:44:52   processing is still a mess and still in [TS]

01:44:54   flux but the the system i've used for [TS]

01:44:56   the last six months or so per year [TS]

01:44:58   whatever it's been everything on the [TS]

01:45:00   phone stays in photos app on all [TS]

01:45:02   platforms everything shot on a camera [TS]

01:45:04   goes to lightroom first I pic and [TS]

01:45:06   process and edit in lightroom and I [TS]

01:45:09   export finished jpegs into photos where [TS]

01:45:11   they were they will live forever [TS]

01:45:13   all right John um so let's see of [TS]

01:45:17   backups I all my photos are in a photo [TS]

01:45:21   library on the 5k imac about 5k imac in [TS]

01:45:24   its entirety is backed up to time [TS]

01:45:26   machine both locally on my synology and [TS]

01:45:28   also through crashplan [TS]

01:45:30   I also push the photos up to google [TS]

01:45:34   photos as well so my photos are many [TS]

01:45:36   places for sharing we use the iCloud you [TS]

01:45:42   know library sharing what the hell do I [TS]

01:45:43   used to be photostream what is it called [TS]

01:45:45   now iCloud photo library know the [TS]

01:45:48   sharing features like we're going to [TS]

01:45:49   Sharia anyway we use the iCloud sharing [TS]

01:45:51   feature because all of our family you [TS]

01:45:53   have iOS devices and they get a little [TS]

01:45:55   notification and they can go and look at [TS]

01:45:56   it sideways shearing and processing [TS]

01:45:58   everything goes that you know we connect [TS]

01:46:01   the camera to the 5k imac my it's on my [TS]

01:46:03   wife's account to her phone stuff [TS]

01:46:05   automatically shows up there for [TS]

01:46:07   everything is on my phone that goes to [TS]

01:46:08   my mac and photos and periodically in [TS]

01:46:11   fact just did this recently periodically [TS]

01:46:12   i do export unmodified originals from my [TS]

01:46:15   mac to a folder and then import that [TS]

01:46:18   folder into the big photos library to [TS]

01:46:19   make the I be iCloud family photo [TS]

01:46:23   library that Apple refuses to make nice [TS]

01:46:26   to be clear my backup is crashplan the [TS]

01:46:30   only reason i don't use backblaze is [TS]

01:46:32   because backblaze doesn't easily support [TS]

01:46:34   a network drives if it wasn't for that I [TS]

01:46:37   would absolutely be on back place [TS]

01:46:39   tomorrow about rats the same reason I do [TS]

01:46:41   it because we can we mount the synology [TS]

01:46:43   on my wife's 5k imac and because it's a [TS]

01:46:46   network share crash man will back it up [TS]

01:46:47   my personal back Mac is back-to-back [TS]

01:46:49   place there you go [TS]

01:46:51   Ryan good let asks what's the most [TS]

01:46:53   difficult challenge for transition that [TS]

01:46:54   you've had in your professional life [TS]

01:46:56   um I'm gonna go here again with the 24 [TS]

01:46:59   um i think number one my last job I got [TS]

01:47:05   a deserved reputation for being a [TS]

01:47:07   complainer i think i did too much [TS]

01:47:10   complaining of fixing and it was [TS]

01:47:12   challenging but rewarding to move away [TS]

01:47:14   from that and similarly I was doing [TS]

01:47:17   something that I was very comfortable in [TS]

01:47:19   doing my last job and now i'm doing iOS [TS]

01:47:21   development which I am comfortable in [TS]

01:47:23   but I certainly wasn't when I started [TS]

01:47:24   and so that was very challenging and [TS]

01:47:28   very difficult but i'm glad i've done it [TS]

01:47:30   Marco this this is gonna be a ridiculous [TS]

01:47:34   humble brag and I apologize for that and [TS]

01:47:36   then and that is the transition to have [TS]

01:47:41   any large enough audience and an enough [TS]

01:47:44   influence that when i write something it [TS]

01:47:48   spreads often a lot more than i [TS]

01:47:50   anticipated and there are ramifications [TS]

01:47:52   to that and so I've basically had to [TS]

01:47:54   learn how to responsibly have this kind [TS]

01:47:59   of of audience and and not get myself [TS]

01:48:03   into trouble or situations that I [TS]

01:48:05   personally regret or that mitt that [TS]

01:48:07   exploded in my face unexpectedly and i [TS]

01:48:11   have not completed this transition or [TS]

01:48:13   prospects yeah but I i think i am slowly [TS]

01:48:17   learning basically like how how to [TS]

01:48:19   responsibly have the audience that that [TS]

01:48:23   I had that I now have I think that was [TS]

01:48:25   really good answer actually John uh-huh [TS]

01:48:28   i did read this before and I have been [TS]

01:48:29   having trouble picking what I guess [TS]

01:48:31   probably the best one is no I was [TS]

01:48:33   working in college I was working like [TS]

01:48:35   tech and you know in the industry in [TS]

01:48:36   doing it was that the advent of the web [TS]

01:48:38   so I was getting into that but I also [TS]

01:48:40   worked like in the ID helpdesk and stuff [TS]

01:48:42   like that anyway I transition right from [TS]

01:48:43   you know I got the my fresh out of [TS]

01:48:45   college I got it kind of when I was in [TS]

01:48:47   college and then just kept it afterwards [TS]

01:48:49   but then i moved away and so I was [TS]

01:48:52   telecommuting for that job his job that [TS]

01:48:54   I had already had like it's not like I [TS]

01:48:55   talking the whole time I had been going [TS]

01:48:57   into the office and start telecommuting [TS]

01:48:58   for two-and-a-half years or so and that [TS]

01:49:02   transition from being a person who goes [TS]

01:49:03   to a job as I had since I got my very [TS]

01:49:05   first job as a teenager all the way up [TS]

01:49:07   through college and so on and so forth [TS]

01:49:08   where you go to a place and do a thing [TS]

01:49:10   to being a telecommuter i thought was [TS]

01:49:13   great i love telecommuting but in [TS]

01:49:14   hindsight that was very difficult [TS]

01:49:16   transition because i had to go all [TS]

01:49:18   through all the things that I imagine [TS]

01:49:19   anybody working almost to go through [TS]

01:49:22   where you are responsible for your own [TS]

01:49:24   time and you know you need to you know [TS]

01:49:27   anything that anyone is independent or [TS]

01:49:30   work from home otherwise has to deal [TS]

01:49:31   with I dealt with that in my very first [TS]

01:49:33   job and like so many people on this very [TS]

01:49:37   podcast my problem was not motivating [TS]

01:49:40   myself to work my problem was having any [TS]

01:49:43   kind of reasonable work-life balance [TS]

01:49:44   like I don't have kids then but I was [TS]

01:49:47   newly married but I spent way too much [TS]

01:49:50   time like it was like every waking [TS]

01:49:51   second I was [TS]

01:49:53   on the computer most of the time doing [TS]

01:49:56   work related things and that's what i [TS]

01:49:58   got in big trouble with RSI issues and [TS]

01:50:01   you could have been career-ending and it [TS]

01:50:02   was very difficult and just learning how [TS]

01:50:04   to be a human being with a balance [TS]

01:50:07   between work and non-work it was [TS]

01:50:09   especially difficult after coming off of [TS]

01:50:10   college where for the first time I had [TS]

01:50:12   access to the internet on you know at an [TS]

01:50:15   ethernet connection not a modem like I [TS]

01:50:17   was on the actual internet and like I [TS]

01:50:19   spent you know again every second that [TS]

01:50:21   it wasn't in class I was glued to some [TS]

01:50:23   kind of external market other terminal [TS]

01:50:24   or whatever in the computer lab that [TS]

01:50:26   wasn't healthy balance of there but that [TS]

01:50:28   was probably the most difficult after [TS]

01:50:30   that I think I'm more or less figured [TS]

01:50:32   out that aspect of the my professional [TS]

01:50:35   life balancing the the life part with [TS]

01:50:37   the work part brand RHONJ asks if you [TS]

01:50:40   could force Apple to enter one product [TS]

01:50:41   category they're not currently in which [TS]

01:50:43   would it be the president pro desktop [TS]

01:50:44   business doesn't count yet but you know [TS]

01:50:48   I I this is that I might get dinged for [TS]

01:50:52   this but i'd like to see Apple do like a [TS]

01:50:54   standalone camera and I know yes that [TS]

01:50:57   the iphone particularly as a really [TS]

01:50:59   great camera blah blah but I'd be really [TS]

01:51:01   interested to see an apple standalone [TS]

01:51:03   camera and I know they did that years [TS]

01:51:05   and years and years ago back when you [TS]

01:51:06   know John was a Mac user but it would be [TS]

01:51:08   interesting to see it today mark oh this [TS]

01:51:11   is it this is a hard for me to pick [TS]

01:51:13   because my answer it mostly is like [TS]

01:51:16   stuff they already do but just do it [TS]

01:51:18   better but if I had to pick one i would [TS]

01:51:22   say i would like to see them address the [TS]

01:51:24   the echo / google home market at but the [TS]

01:51:28   problem the problem with that is that i [TS]

01:51:30   don't honestly think Cirie is good [TS]

01:51:33   enough for that yet and I also don't [TS]

01:51:34   think Apple would do any kind of [TS]

01:51:37   integrations with third-party api's and [TS]

01:51:39   stuff that would make it as useful as [TS]

01:51:41   the echo is so basically i want Apple to [TS]

01:51:44   either make their current products [TS]

01:51:45   better or if they're going to enter a [TS]

01:51:47   new market the only one I can think of [TS]

01:51:48   is one they be bad at which is probably [TS]

01:51:50   a good sign [TS]

01:51:51   John gonna pick a gigantic desktop [TS]

01:51:55   touchscreen thing that's plugged into [TS]

01:51:58   the wall basically Microsoft service to [TS]

01:51:59   do so interesting is they're not in that [TS]

01:52:01   market and [TS]

01:52:02   and.and like Marco I have a you know i [TS]

01:52:04   can think of all sorts of things that I [TS]

01:52:05   would like them to do but then I feel [TS]

01:52:07   like they wouldn't do a good job and I [TS]

01:52:08   think they could do a good job of this [TS]

01:52:10   if they put their mind to it [TS]

01:52:11   buckless asks does anyone in the ATP [TS]

01:52:15   group using stand-up desk not at home [TS]

01:52:17   but at work i use a very desk which is [TS]

01:52:19   the standard issue corporate sit stand [TS]

01:52:22   desks like a Don and I love it I i can't [TS]

01:52:26   recommend it enough it's very spendy [TS]

01:52:27   which is why I worked out for me and I [TS]

01:52:30   don't have one at home but I really [TS]

01:52:31   really really like it if you are to get [TS]

01:52:33   one though [TS]

01:52:35   absolutely get a Matt and I have a [TS]

01:52:37   recommendation for one so ask me on [TS]

01:52:39   twitter if you need one for the Sharks I [TS]

01:52:40   wanted to actually I i have a standing [TS]

01:52:43   desk that I stole from tumblr when I [TS]

01:52:44   left and it is it is really it's a very [TS]

01:52:48   nice one its it was so you know it's old [TS]

01:52:50   like some kind of office furniture [TS]

01:52:51   company back you know almost 10 years [TS]

01:52:53   ago so i have no idea of you I'm sure [TS]

01:52:55   the market totally different now but one [TS]

01:52:57   thing I I don't use it instead of modal [TS]

01:52:59   lot I i have gone through phases where [TS]

01:53:02   have i get if i had you know certain [TS]

01:53:04   back inflammation like disc information [TS]

01:53:06   on my back I would go through phases [TS]

01:53:07   where it uses insane mode for like [TS]

01:53:09   almost permanently for months and then [TS]

01:53:11   go back to setting so it is nice to have [TS]

01:53:13   the option is also wonderful when [TS]

01:53:14   routing cables and doing cable [TS]

01:53:15   management clean up in the back to get [TS]

01:53:17   up a little bit and have that kind of [TS]

01:53:19   headroom literally but one thing I [TS]

01:53:20   recommend if you get a standing desk my [TS]

01:53:23   biggest recommendation is get one that [TS]

01:53:25   has memories for the different positions [TS]

01:53:28   that can do that like at least two [TS]

01:53:29   memory so you can have at least a stored [TS]

01:53:31   ceiling height and a storage standing [TS]

01:53:33   height because otherwise it's it's [TS]

01:53:36   frustrating to like have to be fidgeting [TS]

01:53:38   with it to get it just right [TS]

01:53:39   every time you change it so if you have [TS]

01:53:41   memory presets you can just set it where [TS]

01:53:43   you like it and then just always repeat [TS]

01:53:45   the same two levels [TS]

01:53:46   John never worked on a standing desk i [TS]

01:53:49   would try it i'm interested in trying [TS]

01:53:51   but i never have enough also quick [TS]

01:53:54   real-time follow-up John should be [TS]

01:53:56   friend of the show asked how often is it [TS]

01:53:57   in standing mode [TS]

01:53:58   usually every day not always but usually [TS]

01:54:01   every day for probably a quarter of the [TS]

01:54:04   day Phil chatham asks although ATP [TS]

01:54:07   sponsor supported have you ever [TS]

01:54:09   considered member donations aside from [TS]

01:54:11   merchandise [TS]

01:54:11   we've talked about this but maybe not in [TS]

01:54:13   a published show [TS]

01:54:15   uh we've considered it but quite [TS]

01:54:18   candidly I don't think it would ever [TS]

01:54:19   come close to earning as much money as a [TS]

01:54:23   sponsorship would any thoughts from [TS]

01:54:25   either of you guys helping out [TS]

01:54:28   I mean that's you know our sponsorships [TS]

01:54:30   make good money [TS]

01:54:31   I one of the things i learned from [TS]

01:54:32   howard stern which I mentioned it before [TS]

01:54:34   so just go over briefly is that he said [TS]

01:54:37   on a number of occasions basically that [TS]

01:54:38   he likes to minimize the times and ways [TS]

01:54:41   in which he asked the audience for money [TS]

01:54:43   because that way when you do ask them [TS]

01:54:45   for money or you know that it basically [TS]

01:54:47   makes it count and it you're not like [TS]

01:54:49   wasting that goodwill all the time [TS]

01:54:51   necessary you're not nickel-and-diming [TS]

01:54:52   your audience and everything so [TS]

01:54:53   basically we try to make this year we [TS]

01:54:56   sell t-shirts like once a year for [TS]

01:54:57   everybody see usually or near at least [TS]

01:54:59   and and and and we know we have you [TS]

01:55:03   listened to show response ships and so [TS]

01:55:05   far the only way to really ask you for [TS]

01:55:06   money ever and that that works for us we [TS]

01:55:09   make money from sponsorships anything [TS]

01:55:12   else I think would not only bring in a [TS]

01:55:14   lot less money than the sponsor would [TS]

01:55:16   but also kind of cloud the message and [TS]

01:55:18   kind of make it feel like we are like I [TS]

01:55:20   don't double charging you or asking you [TS]

01:55:22   too often [TS]

01:55:23   yeah I completely great Charles heart [TS]

01:55:25   asks which apple executives your [TS]

01:55:27   favorite which one do i guess this is [TS]

01:55:29   multi-part so let's start there with [TS]

01:55:30   which apple executives your favorite I [TS]

01:55:33   do love me some phil schiller yeah he's [TS]

01:55:35   he's goofy in the best possible way [TS]

01:55:38   although God now I'm thinking about [TS]

01:55:40   Craig mmm yeah I'm have to change my [TS]

01:55:43   mind I'm have to go with Craig Marko [TS]

01:55:45   well if it's good if it's about like [TS]

01:55:48   public interaction i think i have to go [TS]

01:55:51   with Phil because phil is he has he is [TS]

01:55:56   so gloriously dry and it-it-it like it [TS]

01:56:03   that that that shows itself in weird [TS]

01:56:05   ways sometimes because he's he's like he [TS]

01:56:08   seems like he's a nice person but to get [TS]

01:56:11   him to show genuine enthusiasm for [TS]

01:56:13   anything is is seemingly not very easy [TS]

01:56:15   and is he just has an impressive level [TS]

01:56:19   of dryness about him that I really enjoy [TS]

01:56:22   even when you can just kind of barely [TS]

01:56:24   see it through like the marketing [TS]

01:56:25   message like the mario run announcement [TS]

01:56:28   email [TS]

01:56:29   a post on Twitter that was like it was [TS]

01:56:31   the most like dry unexcited even if ever [TS]

01:56:34   seen for emotional effort and that just [TS]

01:56:37   had Phil Schiller all over at like he [TS]

01:56:38   probably had something to do with their [TS]

01:56:40   with the opposite of that but if you [TS]

01:56:43   know I i think if you look at like [TS]

01:56:46   activity of like who whose work I like [TS]

01:56:49   the best [TS]

01:56:49   that's got to be Craig enough John Mark [TS]

01:56:53   with the market to pick 20 final that I [TS]

01:56:56   kind of did too [TS]

01:56:57   yeah I will if someone yep I I feel the [TS]

01:57:00   same way about Phil but i gotta go with [TS]

01:57:02   seafood because it gave me a file system [TS]

01:57:03   haha who have died both of you all right [TS]

01:57:09   dad is next from Charles heart which one [TS]

01:57:12   leaving Apple would be the saddest i'm [TS]

01:57:14   going to absolutely go with Phil on this [TS]

01:57:16   one John yeah they'll definitely i go [TS]

01:57:19   craig on that 1i i think i have it with [TS]

01:57:22   that if Craig left that would be you [TS]

01:57:24   know as much as I like Phil I think I [TS]

01:57:26   would be my BF said if you even leave [TS]

01:57:28   I'd be a lot more upset i think of Craig [TS]

01:57:30   left because I feel like that would [TS]

01:57:31   represent so much more of like what I [TS]

01:57:34   care about being gone from the company [TS]

01:57:36   anyone who you think leaving would [TS]

01:57:40   actually be a net win I want to pass on [TS]

01:57:42   that [TS]

01:57:43   that's union but that's that's mean John [TS]

01:57:46   yeah i don't think i don't know enough [TS]

01:57:48   about the inner workings of the company [TS]

01:57:50   to to say Johnny I thought of [TS]

01:57:52   haha that's cold not a bad answer though [TS]

01:57:56   Andrew Derek says all of you primarily [TS]

01:57:59   use Apple devices or products what two [TS]

01:58:01   or three non apple products each of you [TS]

01:58:03   what are two or three not Apple products [TS]

01:58:05   that each of you use a regular basis [TS]

01:58:07   this is a great great question um I [TS]

01:58:11   don't know if I can do two or three just [TS]

01:58:13   list them don't describe why they're [TS]

01:58:15   good but one that I can think of one [TS]

01:58:17   that i can think of off the top of my [TS]

01:58:18   head that I absolutely freaking love and [TS]

01:58:21   have loved for years now is my synology [TS]

01:58:23   which to be fair was sent to me for free [TS]

01:58:25   but i swear to god i love this thing and [TS]

01:58:29   if if I knew then how much I would love [TS]

01:58:33   it i would absolutely have paid my own [TS]

01:58:35   money to buy it [TS]

01:58:36   Marco almost all of my audio gear is not [TS]

01:58:41   apple and all of my kin [TS]

01:58:42   bros except for my iphone which [TS]

01:58:44   admittedly is a frequently used one yeah [TS]

01:58:45   cameras like those are all [TS]

01:58:47   yeah those are all non apple as well and [TS]

01:58:50   you know audio in and out microphone [TS]

01:58:52   interface headphone amp headphones [TS]

01:58:54   because they're part of my family so [TS]

01:58:56   this people keep that was going i'm also [TS]

01:58:58   a huge fan of my fujitsu scansnap [TS]

01:59:01   scanner which is incredibly boring but [TS]

01:59:03   incredibly satisfying that works so well [TS]

01:59:05   i would also pile on the camera on the [TS]

01:59:09   camera one that was a great answer [TS]

01:59:10   John I'm gonna go with my panasonic [TS]

01:59:13   plasma television which I still love my [TS]

01:59:16   sony playstation 4 pro which I love and [TS]

01:59:19   play every day including just before the [TS]

01:59:21   show finally finished out the srl record [TS]

01:59:23   book from last year I still kept it [TS]

01:59:25   around because i know'd finally [TS]

01:59:27   completed what else I my synology just [TS]

01:59:32   like a said with all the exactly same [TS]

01:59:33   caveat if my synology broken i think [TS]

01:59:35   about breaking all time I would [TS]

01:59:36   absolutely by no one in fact I've been [TS]

01:59:39   thinking about buying anyone just to get [TS]

01:59:40   all the new cool one like I'm looking at [TS]

01:59:42   my synology yeah you're old and your [TS]

01:59:43   discs are small let me buy a new one but [TS]

01:59:45   you know it's still working fine so I'm [TS]

01:59:47   not gonna point that money and you know [TS]

01:59:49   you got the different discs and right I [TS]

01:59:51   know but this model thing mine supports [TS]

01:59:53   btrfs and oh god the the new ones have [TS]

01:59:58   faster chips for transcoding play [TS]

01:59:58   faster chips for transcoding play [TS]

02:00:00   stop and yes I could replace this with [TS]

02:00:01   mr what am I gonna do with all these [TS]

02:00:03   gigantic discs lord knows I can put them [TS]

02:00:04   inside a mac anymore [TS]

02:00:06   sick burn alright Charles hunt asks if [TS]

02:00:09   the mac excuse me if the imac pro became [TS]

02:00:12   a reality what components and [TS]

02:00:13   configurations would justify the pro [TS]

02:00:15   label to you [TS]

02:00:16   that's a great question i think just an [TS]

02:00:20   absurd amount of ram and absurd amount [TS]

02:00:24   of hard drive space which isn't I mean I [TS]

02:00:26   shouldn't call my hard drive anymore an [TS]

02:00:27   SSD space and a really really beefy [TS]

02:00:30   graphics card i think the graphics card [TS]

02:00:32   alone might be enough [TS]

02:00:33   John I need i think i would justify to [TS]

02:00:37   me I think I need to see ram i don't [TS]

02:00:38   need Zeon's but i need easy ram tons of [TS]

02:00:42   ram and big honking graphics card like [TS]

02:00:45   so the cpu is is you would expect me to [TS]

02:00:47   list that but I'm not gonna I was like [TS]

02:00:48   whatever easy rim and i don't know like [TS]

02:00:51   you know until may not have those [TS]

02:00:53   combination of parts available but [TS]

02:00:55   technically it is possible [TS]

02:00:56   easy around and really fast graphics [TS]

02:00:58   card and you didn't need to have cpus [TS]

02:01:01   because you knew i would cover them haha [TS]

02:01:04   so I I'm gonna go with basically two [TS]

02:01:06   things that are that are related [TS]

02:01:08   basically they require each other I'm [TS]

02:01:10   gonna go with both [TS]

02:01:12   hi korzy on so it basically more than [TS]

02:01:14   four cores give me at least double at [TS]

02:01:16   least eight cores because that matters [TS]

02:01:19   and i will use that and then also what [TS]

02:01:21   should be required to do that in the [TS]

02:01:22   first place [TS]

02:01:23   give me a cooling enclosure that can [TS]

02:01:26   have the computer under very very high [TS]

02:01:28   workloads and still be silent in the [TS]

02:01:32   room because the trashcan mac pro can do [TS]

02:01:35   that the old Mac Pro's almost did that [TS]

02:01:37   and the imac and all the laptops and [TS]

02:01:40   everything they make today except for [TS]

02:01:42   the macbook one cannot do that [TS]

02:01:43   everything else ever the community make [TS]

02:01:45   underload you hear fans and I want a [TS]

02:01:48   computer that is advanced and graceful [TS]

02:01:50   enough to have a hundred and sixty watt [TS]

02:01:52   cpu and there and to have me never hear [TS]

02:01:54   the fan in a regular room in regular [TS]

02:01:56   conditions when it's under maximum load [TS]

02:01:58   dead pine asks you're forced to choose [TS]

02:02:00   one line of Apple computers to kill [TS]

02:02:02   which one is it [TS]

02:02:03   I definitely the mac pro cause I'm tired [TS]

02:02:05   of hearing you to whine about Nina and [TS]

02:02:07   all kidding aside I would kill the [TS]

02:02:09   macbook air i think the backpack is a [TS]

02:02:10   great replacement I don't really [TS]

02:02:11   understand why the macbook [TS]

02:02:13   there's they're ok I do it's about price [TS]

02:02:15   point but really kill the macbook air [TS]

02:02:17   Marco kill everything that is non retina [TS]

02:02:20   and has a spinning disk hard drive and [TS]

02:02:23   that would include the macbook air and [TS]

02:02:25   the base models of the imac and the mac [TS]

02:02:29   mini I think that you can't you can't [TS]

02:02:30   just pick the base is a line of [TS]

02:02:31   computers you've got to see the whole [TS]

02:02:32   imac so the macbook air is the answer [TS]

02:02:35   like that that is a line of computers [TS]

02:02:37   and it shouldn't exist and it should be [TS]

02:02:39   removed and replaced by a better [TS]

02:02:41   computer that it's the same price point [TS]

02:02:42   tom wilkinson asks this one is mostly [TS]

02:02:45   into John if you could design your [TS]

02:02:47   perfect gaming console what would it be [TS]

02:02:49   it wouldn't be that different than the [TS]

02:02:51   existing playstation 4 i'm mostly happy [TS]

02:02:55   with everything they did there I would [TS]

02:02:57   change the control a little bit how to [TS]

02:02:59   ditch the island really you know [TS]

02:03:01   alright Marco any thoughts on that by [TS]

02:03:04   chance not at all [TS]

02:03:05   okay good talk friend of mine Aaron [TS]

02:03:08   factor asks do you guys have any [TS]

02:03:09   techniques resolutions stop looking at [TS]

02:03:12   my damn phone so often that's about it [TS]

02:03:14   Marco I really do year's resolutions for [TS]

02:03:16   for all the Merlin reasons of like [TS]

02:03:18   that's kind of that they're not usually [TS]

02:03:20   productive or effective but one thing [TS]

02:03:22   I'd like to do more of in the future as [TS]

02:03:25   a general thing is less time wasted [TS]

02:03:28   checking social media and more time [TS]

02:03:30   making things [TS]

02:03:31   mm yep completely ready John i have not [TS]

02:03:35   i don't do new years resolutions but if [TS]

02:03:37   you did what we what would you say and [TS]

02:03:44   no i don't think so i don't think in [TS]

02:03:47   those terms that I don't have anything [TS]

02:03:48   right fair enough [TS]

02:03:50   aw Paris asks in the past Apple has made [TS]

02:03:53   cheap or cheaper polycarbonate laptops [TS]

02:03:55   and ipods both which were bought by [TS]

02:03:57   parents for kids and by college students [TS]

02:03:59   these were the sort with these are sort [TS]

02:04:00   of apple's version of quote my first [TS]

02:04:02   sony I miss those that started a lot of [TS]

02:04:05   lifelong Apple users doesn't concern you [TS]

02:04:07   guys and apples evolution to exclusively [TS]

02:04:08   high-end hardware won't allow young [TS]

02:04:10   users to buy into their ecosystem any [TS]

02:04:12   longer [TS]

02:04:13   this is a great question of my first mac [TS]

02:04:15   was a was a polycarbonate macbook [TS]

02:04:19   Polly book as i love to call it which dr [TS]

02:04:21   stephen Hackett bananas [TS]

02:04:23   I i don't think it concerns me [TS]

02:04:27   snow but it's it's a great point and in [TS]

02:04:30   an interesting question Marco I think [TS]

02:04:33   it's these this is more about price than [TS]

02:04:36   about materials and so if they are [TS]

02:04:39   satisfying lower-priced here that's [TS]

02:04:41   great i mean when we were you know [TS]

02:04:43   coming up in this in this area of each [TS]

02:04:46   the cheapest max you could buy were like [TS]

02:04:48   $2,000 and and that was in like nineteen [TS]

02:04:52   nineties into thousands of dollars so [TS]

02:04:54   a-after inflation we're doing pretty [TS]

02:04:57   well even when even like the new macbook [TS]

02:04:58   pros are pretty awesome it you know [TS]

02:05:00   compared to you know how when we were [TS]

02:05:03   when we were younger and getting into [TS]

02:05:04   this i think as long as they serve lower [TS]

02:05:07   price point somehow I think we're [TS]

02:05:10   generally fine it it is a little bit [TS]

02:05:13   unfortunate that the way to chose mr. [TS]

02:05:15   lower price points is often things like [TS]

02:05:17   non-retina screens and spinning hard [TS]

02:05:19   drives which make the product overall [TS]

02:05:20   suck that is unfortunate but as long as [TS]

02:05:23   they hit those price points somehow I [TS]

02:05:26   think they're okay on this particular [TS]

02:05:27   front [TS]

02:05:29   yeah I mostly read that the materials [TS]

02:05:31   changes as a red herring here like that [TS]