0:00:00yeah i think even today's pcs they can't
0:00:02be that bad but don't have internet or
0:00:03cardigan yeah i remember battle is like
0:00:05you get a USB card ya know you've got
0:00:08USB yeah but you know I don't think upon
0:00:10my baby's alive six pci slot so it's not
0:00:12a big deal
0:00:13well you you would have a card for the
0:00:15fast USB 2.0 card with like two USB 2.0
0:00:19and then on your motherboard like little
0:00:21riser thing but all the party at 1.14
0:00:24your keyboard and mouse yeah then you
0:00:25have the slow ports and plus plus the
0:00:27ps2 park right because that's probably
0:00:28what your keyboard mouse connected you
0:00:29had lu2 ps2 ports and maybe color-coded
0:00:32hopefully with the weather the teal one
0:00:34for the mouse and the lime green one for
0:00:37the what was that standard called the
0:00:39standard that gave all the game others
0:00:41only colors in the late nineties you
0:00:42talk about with repeat the ps2 port like
0:00:44the mouse's purpley they're color-coded
0:00:46they're like pastel it when they got
0:00:48colored it was like around nineteen
0:00:49ninety eight or so and and that's that
0:00:52there was a standard release by the pc
0:00:54group of whoever they all agreed to use
0:00:56these colors and they were ugly colors
0:00:58so horrendous and theirs and they're
0:01:00still in use today I think the colors
0:01:01have not changed like the ports have
0:01:03changed somewhat but like I i I'm pretty
0:01:06sure it's still the exact seekers pcs
0:01:089700 color code for ps2 keyboard purple
0:01:11and mouse screen
0:01:12ya think that's a pc system design guide
0:01:15where they're more than is like they
0:01:16were all sorts of that was like the
0:01:18sound when you hear ya color coding
0:01:20scheme pc 99 perhaps the most end user
0:01:23visible and lasting impact of pc 99 was
0:01:26that introduced to color code for very
0:01:27standard types of plugs and connections
0:01:29use on PCs sky blue is USB 3.0 for Speed
0:01:33no good
0:01:35burgundy is parallel port teal or
0:01:37turquoise serial port this i think the
0:01:39sound ones are the ugliest like that the
0:01:41pink light blue lime green like those
0:01:43are always like the ugliest one on the
0:01:45back of the case there are made every pc
0:01:47extra ugly because no matter how
0:01:48tasteful you made your case you like
0:01:50they put a little plastic ring around
0:01:51all the law do things just like a
0:01:53rainbow ugly pastel oh my god the end
0:01:56and then and the the audio plugs that
0:01:59they'll be in the cables would also be
0:02:00those colors so you can play with them
0:02:02up
0:02:02oh my god so like this is just a library
0:02:06of horrible nineties colors right here
0:02:08is that is like a tasteless person's
0:02:10idea of solving a problem
0:02:12users don't know where stuff plug into
0:02:13on the back of their pcs let's color
0:02:15code them all is is problem number one
0:02:16problem number two is if we're going to
0:02:18color called the mall let's make them
0:02:19all the colors that all clash with each
0:02:21other and we never imagined bicycle pc
0:02:23ever made
0:02:23exactly p cont nine it is our 200th
0:02:30episode spectacular before we go totally
0:02:33off the rails i like to have a
0:02:34touchy-feely moment since i am well I
0:02:36used to be the touchy-feely person chief
0:02:38but since irreconcilable differences is
0:02:41a thing I don't know if I am anymore but
0:02:43i do want to sell mean that you got that
0:02:47reconcile differences like analog but
0:02:49with people who actually know what
0:02:50they're talking about
0:02:51with all respect to my curly home i love
0:02:52they are you suggesting though because
0:02:54you're talking about the three of us are
0:02:56you suggesting that John is the
0:02:57touchy-feely one on that show
0:03:00john is a is the this is the Dark Horse
0:03:03touchy-feely 1 i'd say but anyway we're
0:03:06getting and we're getting sidetracked
0:03:07again in typical ATP style this is the
0:03:09200 200 episodes i've ever heard it
0:03:12no but I wanted to take a moment and
0:03:13genuinely from the bottom of my heart
0:03:15thank every single one of our listeners
0:03:17past present future every single one of
0:03:19you those crazy people who go all the
0:03:21way back in time to listen from the
0:03:23beginning when they discover the show
0:03:24later in the run for the 13 of you that
0:03:28listen to neutral
0:03:30i I'm sure that was sufficiently painful
0:03:32and I apologize on behalf of all three
0:03:34of us but but truly in in genuinely
0:03:37being a part of the show has been been a
0:03:39tremendous highlight of my life and and
0:03:42has afforded my family some things that
0:03:44we may not have been able to do
0:03:45otherwise and it's thanks to all the
0:03:47listeners even the ones who write as
0:03:49cranky emails we appreciate you once you
0:03:51read us lovely emails we really
0:03:53appreciate you and and even if you
0:03:55listen and don't write in we appreciate
0:03:57you too so thank you from all of us to
0:04:00all of you for being you and for
0:04:02listening to the show and also on a
0:04:04somber note if I can't remember my gmail
0:04:06password there we go
0:04:08this is going to be a short show can't
0:04:10see the damn show notes but I just
0:04:11remembered it
0:04:12so we're good so what what is it that
0:04:14makes somebody by a white car exactly so
0:04:16here we go again
0:04:18god you're such a day anyway it's funny
0:04:21LOL looking back on that very first
0:04:23episode of neutral eye
0:04:25had I known that that was going to be
0:04:28the first released episode i probably
0:04:31would have started with a better phrase
0:04:33my introductory phrase to tell you that
0:04:35the world would have been something
0:04:36better than what is it that makes
0:04:39somebody by a white car all your dip it
0:04:46seems about right what are you
0:04:47complaining about that's like man I mean
0:04:52I but are we really that different now
0:04:55no but I would have had i had had I
0:04:58known better at the time I would have
0:05:00chosen a better introductory phrase
0:05:02because if you think about I mean that
0:05:04was my very first appearance on any
0:05:06podcast ever and my first appearance was
0:05:09was getting grumpy at you which again
0:05:11maybe it's fitting in nature that now we
0:05:14just sound better but it's the same for
0:05:16the same people doing basically this
0:05:18radio show now just be sound better and
0:05:21the car stuff tends to wait till the end
0:05:23of the show
0:05:24yeah that is accurate because i have
0:05:26been it was it is it is wild to me to
0:05:29think and actually I was just talking to
0:05:30a friend of mine at work at lunch today
0:05:33you know I he was he was reflecting on
0:05:35the time when the two of us where
0:05:36jackals in the five by five chatroom and
0:05:38here it is i'm talking with you guys
0:05:40every single week which is which is
0:05:41crazy it's bananas and and I'm very
0:05:43thankful for it and again i'm thankful
0:05:46for all our listeners and in this
0:05:47touchy-feely moment is going to end in a
0:05:48moment but but it is important to me
0:05:51anyway and I think I speak for the other
0:05:52two guys it's important to all of us
0:05:54that that you guys know that that we
0:05:56appreciate you
0:05:58despite the fish that we play before the
0:05:59live stream for every week we all like
0:06:01you even John especially the people go
0:06:05back and listen from the beginning
0:06:06because those are the best people but
0:06:08that it's a competition there's such as
0:06:10so much important continuity that you'll
0:06:12be missing out that don't do that and
0:06:15it's becoming increasingly hard to do
0:06:16that as time passes so better hurry up
0:06:18and come through the back catalogue
0:06:19those people are the best
0:06:21that's the thing and because these
0:06:22aren't 200 short shows you who
0:06:25well the first like five were was the
0:06:27first episode like 15 minutes or
0:06:28something yeah it was like the
0:06:29after-show of neutral week is recorded
0:06:31one night and threw up on soundcloud it
0:06:33was an inversion read through the
0:06:34the show became the show the show began
0:06:35after man but if I mean to think that a
0:06:41that it was you know what was it
0:06:44something like march of 2013 that we
0:06:46formally announced that this was a thing
0:06:48yeah and here it is it's it's December
0:06:51of 2016 and with the exception of the
0:06:54one crossover episode all three of us
0:06:56have been on every single episode 4 200
0:06:58episodes every single week without fail
0:07:01and and you know in the grand scheme of
0:07:03things it's not a difficult thing to
0:07:04talk to your buddies at home in front of
0:07:07your own computer for a couple hours
0:07:08each week but you'd be surprised how
0:07:10challenging it can become especially
0:07:12with like holiday schedules as we're
0:07:13coming into so so I appreciate the to
0:07:16you guys sticking with me and I
0:07:17appreciate all the listeners sticking
0:07:18with us and with that touchy-feely
0:07:20moment unless you guys have something to
0:07:22add
0:07:22we can go on to a normal completely
0:07:25accidental show remarkable and start
0:07:28some kind of celebratory 200 episodes
0:07:30sound this point in the podcast no
0:07:33pressure
0:07:34we could just make this a clip show you
0:07:36just let you know just all the all the
0:07:37wonderful clips from times past it is
0:07:40the holiday season next step let's talk
0:07:43about filesystems alright that's more
0:07:48working doing regular show though
0:07:50yeah it actually is really honestly I
0:07:53could just sit here and bullshit with
0:07:54you guys for a couple hours that's way
0:07:55easier actually going back and pulling
0:07:58clips that but I just 19 Safari windows
0:08:04oh my god knows how many chrome window
0:08:06still have open uh haha oh my god you
0:08:11think about that of course is little
0:08:12brother of course welcome windows
0:08:15Oh dissen to the to the net i running
0:08:17Safari and chrome all the time
0:08:18oh my god why that the why on God's
0:08:23green earth do you need more than 30 web
0:08:26browser windows open
0:08:27why is that necessary how many freaking
0:08:30tabs are all 30 of the classroom now i
0:08:33can close thing and microwave browse
0:08:34wearing clothes like for the working i
0:08:37can close the pages with the dates of
0:08:39superclocked dates in it what's the
0:08:41average number of tabs per window you
0:08:42think it's like so you can still see the
0:08:46titles like usually you know so like
0:08:47eight
0:08:48no that's tonight 1234 like five or six
0:08:51like for example when I was looking at I
0:08:52want to look up the dates for super
0:08:54clock
0:08:54I one window dedicated to looking at a
0:08:56date that the super clock was was
0:08:59released one window looking up the date
0:09:01that system 7.5 was released and it
0:09:04within those windows i have the google
0:09:06thing and then I have tabs for the the
0:09:08google research results that i thought
0:09:09would be likely and then one of the tabs
0:09:11eventually led to the answer that window
0:09:13is done off to the side next window
0:09:15well its got it why is it off to the
0:09:16side it why is it not close so i could
0:09:19refer to it when i just discussed this
0:09:20and did the math in my head about what
0:09:22the dates were only God so I let's do
0:09:26some follow-up as as we always should
0:09:28and John why don't you tell us about an
0:09:30LG 4k HDR monitor fun fact buying the
0:09:36modern new monitor for a new Playstation
0:09:38I was lamenting the fact that it didn't
0:09:41seem to be any place you could buy a 4k
0:09:45monitor with HDR support you could buy
0:09:494k televisions with HDR but not monitor
0:09:51is not like reasonable size small things
0:09:53you put on a desk and LG just
0:09:56pre-announced / announced that they're
0:09:59going to have a 4k 32 ish or something
0:10:03inch HD are capable monitor that was
0:10:06showing at CES or something so you know
0:10:08you're welcome
0:10:10all I had to do was buy a monitor
0:10:11announced thank you my new mac pro John
0:10:15oh god now I haven't pulled that trigger
0:10:18yellow it i had a dream about the mac
0:10:20pro last night
0:10:21of course you did i wish i had I should
0:10:25have written it down or told to an
0:10:26ancient bird Merlin style music fading
0:10:30memory but it's something like Apple had
0:10:33introduced a new mac pro that look cut
0:10:35from the front of what kind of like the
0:10:36trashcan macro the name of it didn't
0:10:39make any sense to me in the dream it
0:10:41didn't make any sense and I kept asking
0:10:42anybody everybody who would listen in
0:10:44the dream why is it called us and I
0:10:45believe the name was something like it
0:10:48was like a browsing computer like web
0:10:50browsing like why you calling it a
0:10:52browsing
0:10:53pewter doesn't make any sense this is
0:10:54supposed to be the new mac pro pro the
0:10:56replacement macro what does have to do
0:10:57with web browsing that was called and
0:10:59when you rotate around the backwards
0:11:01instead of looking like the current one
0:11:02on the back of the the trashcan cylinder
0:11:05with a section that was just cut out
0:11:07flat and what it looked like you know
0:11:09but the flat place looks like it was
0:11:11like the back of an old pc you know what
0:11:12the the pci slots with a little covers
0:11:14on God a little bit of unfinished steel
0:11:16guys what it looks like on the back to
0:11:19steal like a big flat section that was
0:11:21steel and I'd like the graphics card
0:11:22with a little port picking out of it and
0:11:24then to pci slots but didn't make sense
0:11:26because the cylinder and there anyway
0:11:28that's what it looked like it was gross
0:11:29i wasn't happy with it and it was named
0:11:31after something having to do with
0:11:32browsing which didn't make any sense
0:11:34see normally I cannot stand to hear
0:11:37about someone else's brain taking a dump
0:11:39in their dreams like I just I cannot
0:11:41stand dream recollections because they
0:11:43make no sense i tried to make a concise
0:11:45like there was more to it but I had the
0:11:47highlights but I will you know for
0:11:49whatever reason I I will tolerate dream
0:11:52recollections about the mac pro because
0:11:54i'm just that desperate for anything can
0:11:56put the mac protocol even want this one
0:11:59just like I i'm still having like
0:12:01flashbacks of the back of this thing
0:12:02like a back of a pc shoved into the the
0:12:04back of a trashcan it was some and there
0:12:06was some crap what about like all I
0:12:08guess the old back with like the little
0:12:10you know the little light up things and
0:12:12everything and the ports being on a
0:12:14little curve is just too expensive so
0:12:16just going with like the back of a pc XD
0:12:18case but you know that i would still buy
0:12:21it and you would still not buy it
0:12:23I don't know and who knows what I'll do
0:12:24in the future all I know is if if Apple
0:12:28releases something that they call a
0:12:29macpro even if it is only slightly what
0:12:33John is interested in John if you don't
0:12:36buy 1 i'm gonna buy a friggin one for
0:12:37you so this way I don't have to continue
0:12:39to hear you lament about how you have a
0:12:40mac pro that's older than then my child
0:12:44by quite a long stretch i should add
0:12:46heasley the your macros like four times
0:12:48older than my child is older than both
0:12:49of our children combined that's true
0:12:53re yea right let's move on before i have
0:12:55to go find a bottle of vodka and start
0:12:57drinking
0:12:58I wasn't planning on this being a
0:12:59holiday spectacular uh the headphone
0:13:01ports / jack
0:13:03audiosource bugs i think was Marco that
0:13:05talk about this
0:13:06an episode or two ago and and the way it
0:13:10was pitched will given the information
0:13:11we have at our disposal the time is that
0:13:14it was perhaps something with lightning
0:13:16headphones where I know I'm sorry was
0:13:17John the process up wasn't it regardless
0:13:20when you plug in lightning headphone
0:13:22sometimes the audio doesn't go to the
0:13:24headphones when you unplug them
0:13:25sometimes weird things happen and I
0:13:27guess we've gotten word that this may be
0:13:29an iOS 10 thing and not necessarily
0:13:31lightning headphone sing so do either of
0:13:33you want to build on that was that was
0:13:35the feedback started coming in because
0:13:37my report was like look at this new
0:13:39iphone 7 and this new thing is happening
0:13:40to me and I'm going to blame it on the
0:13:42new headphone thing because it never
0:13:43happened with my old headphones and the
0:13:45first set of reports that were people
0:13:47saying hey I've got an older iphone that
0:13:49has a plain old headphone jack and it's
0:13:50happening to me too so I guess it must
0:13:52be iOS 10 related not hardware related
0:13:53and then eventually more reports started
0:13:56coming and saying nope happens in iOS 92
0:13:59so i'm going to say that I was just
0:14:01lucky i put this point that I had never
0:14:03run into his bug and I just happened to
0:14:05see it coinciding with my lightning at
0:14:07once because so many people have said
0:14:08they've seen this on iOS 9 and with
0:14:10plain old headphones so oh well alright
0:14:14fair enough so we also spoke about my
0:14:17safari back in forward swipe issue and a
0:14:23brief recap occasionally and this used
0:14:26to happen constantly years ago I would
0:14:28use on my magic mouse or perhaps on the
0:14:30mat on the track that on on my laptop's
0:14:32i would do on the magic mouse and one
0:14:34finger swipe on the on the laptops it's
0:14:37two-finger swipe and I would attempt to
0:14:40go si back or forward page and the page
0:14:44would start to animate say back so to
0:14:47from left to right and they would get
0:14:48stuck in safari would be effectively
0:14:50locked and i thought that i was just a
0:14:52unicorn in the bad way and that i was
0:14:55one of the few people this happened to i
0:14:56got a lot of people I I can't put a
0:14:59number on it but i'm more than i
0:15:01expected people tweeting at me saying oh
0:15:03my god i thought i was the only one
0:15:05it turns out there's more of us than
0:15:07just me a lot of people said that they
0:15:10had this problem and we did get a
0:15:12handful of people that said and I
0:15:14haven't had a chance to try this myself
0:15:16that when used when safari freezes when
0:15:18swiping back
0:15:19you need to restore the page to the
0:15:21original position by swiping the other
0:15:23direction and then safari will continue
0:15:25working you don't have to like quit
0:15:26safari a reboot or whatever the case may
0:15:28be I again haven't having corroborated
0:15:31that myself but I saw that mentioned a
0:15:33couple of different times so it's worth
0:15:35trying if you're one of those sad
0:15:37unicorns like I am moving on Andrew
0:15:41Bucky rights in to say I'm a controls
0:15:43engineer working primarily an automotive
0:15:44powertrain and I'm based in the Detroit
0:15:46area just for your info the machine in
0:15:48the video that we mentioned last week is
0:15:50usually referred to as a mill turn as I
0:15:52can do milling straight cuts and
0:15:54drilling a hole drilling done by a mill
0:15:56and turning which is done by lathe and
0:15:58the important piece here is that we were
0:16:00talking about how this is a very fancy
0:16:02crankshaft and how wild that is he said
0:16:04cranks are not usually produced like
0:16:06this that was either a prototype part or
0:16:08a crank for a race car engine or quote
0:16:11unquote hypercar usually the crank is
0:16:12cast in the rough shape of the crank and
0:16:14only a few millimeters of material needs
0:16:16to be removed some surfaces not even
0:16:18touched by the cutter in most every case
0:16:20except low-volume parts machining
0:16:22processes progressive width apart
0:16:24passing through around 10 different
0:16:25miltern lades bouncer polisher and high
0:16:27pressure washer which is 5000 psi water
0:16:30for deburring and cleaning before a
0:16:32finished part pops out
0:16:33so this is not a normal procedure but
0:16:36man was it cool to watch that makes
0:16:38sense because they're saying like if
0:16:39this is how this is what it takes to
0:16:41make every crankshaft this seems that
0:16:43seems excessive things like not not a
0:16:46mass producing and not a process by
0:16:48which you make a lot of anything because
0:16:49it just looks so I mean you know you're
0:16:52only making one of those things at a
0:16:53time and the machine is the size of a
0:16:55truck and so it just doesn't work as a
0:16:57mass production pipeline get robbed also
0:17:00added something that he says I don't
0:17:02know a single production car with the
0:17:03billet crank that's you know these are
0:17:05these are machine from steel billets
0:17:07local ability Frank Ferrari McLaren
0:17:08Koenigsegg all used forged abilities for
0:17:11custom race entrance so it's not even
0:17:14even hypercar stone use it only if you
0:17:16are making an engine for a an actual
0:17:18custom racing car like for f1 or
0:17:19somebody
0:17:20into this if you're making a hypercar
0:17:21solid consumers even that doesn't give
0:17:24you enough money to occupy a gigantic
0:17:26truck-sized computer-controlled milling
0:17:29machine for god knows how long it takes
0:17:31to make one of those links indeed we
0:17:33also had a conversation via email with
0:17:37an anonymous amazon employee who has
0:17:40tried amazon go and this email chain i
0:17:43wish i could publish it because it was
0:17:45fascinating and I'm not being silly i'm
0:17:48being genuine thought it was really
0:17:50really interesting and so this
0:17:51particular individual they said that
0:17:54they were in like on the cue to get in
0:17:57the beta but weren't there yet and then
0:17:58just like it the next day they said oh
0:18:00my goodness i'm in the beta and then the
0:18:01following day they said okay I've been
0:18:03and here's the situation and so to quote
0:18:05them just got back from my first visit
0:18:07no rfid no slanted shelves to push
0:18:10product up front no clear wait pads on
0:18:12the shelves though all shelves are set
0:18:14up to be connected to a network so it's
0:18:16possible the entire shelf is being
0:18:17weighed and not and not a single aisle
0:18:20got it they got their receipt about five
0:18:22minutes after they left so nor don't
0:18:25know door clustering it had everything I
0:18:27grabbed including the starbucks i pulled
0:18:29from the back of the stack
0:18:30I thought of you John said are anonymous
0:18:32writer writer the entire ceiling is an
0:18:34array of wireless sensors and cameras i
0:18:36think they may be taking full radar the
0:18:37store to track people and product how
0:18:39freakin cool is that I would love to see
0:18:41this in person waiting five minutes for
0:18:44your seems like they just have a card
0:18:47that are the service just slow or is it
0:18:49always gonna be five minutes the other
0:18:50doesn't stop people from clustering but
0:18:51also stops you if you got accidentally
0:18:54charged for 99 bottles of something you
0:18:57bought one bottle of finding that out at
0:18:59five minutes later you could be driving
0:19:01away and i have to circle back so it's
0:19:02kind of crappy well no because maybe
0:19:05this was a private email just to me
0:19:07because I exchanged a couple with with
0:19:09this individual but they said that if
0:19:12you look at the special app that you
0:19:14have to put on your phone in order to
0:19:15use Amazon go once you get your receipt
0:19:18you can just do a delete swipe you know
0:19:20so that's a right to left swipe and it
0:19:22will immediately remove that charger or
0:19:24refund you that item or whatever the
0:19:25case may be I'm assuming since it's all
0:19:27amazon employees right now it's kind of
0:19:29honor system
0:19:29I guess but yeah I just can't leave the
0:19:32store and then just deletes I've
0:19:33everything
0:19:34just bought the great system but I mean
0:19:37according to this individual it was very
0:19:39accurate and and there was no obvious
0:19:41witchcraft about it other than the the
0:19:44ceiling or array of sensors so very cool
0:19:48stuff i'm really curious to see if this
0:19:50goes anywhere but but very neat this
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0:21:41was it yesterday as we record we're
0:21:46recording on wednesday the 14th i think
0:21:47was yesterday or maybe this morning
0:21:49sometime it's been a blur for me at work
0:21:50lately apple finally allowed us to give
0:21:54them a hundred an eighty dollars of our
0:21:57money and order air pots right at the
0:22:00end of the year by an hour after it went
0:22:02on sale the date had slipped to after
0:22:05Christmas and within just a couple hours
0:22:07after that the date had slipped to well
0:22:10after Christmas and well into the new
0:22:12year I haven't looked lately at what the
0:22:13date is I would just like to say a
0:22:16personal thank you to apple that they
0:22:20had decided to do this based on the one
0:22:23true time zone which is easier and that
0:22:26makes me extremely happy because those
0:22:28those jerks make us stay up till three
0:22:31in the morning or wake up at three in
0:22:32the morning to order our darn iphones
0:22:34and it was lovely
0:22:35well it would have been lovely hat I
0:22:36ordered some to be able to just casually
0:22:38say yes I'd like one of these please
0:22:40i've been awake for an hour to and I'm
0:22:42prepared to make this kind of decision
0:22:44meanwhile i should add a certain little
0:22:47someone whose name might rhyme with
0:22:50smell is sending me a picture of him
0:22:53listening to our show in earpods excuse
0:22:55me air pods right now that big jerk so
0:22:58hi Mason smell it's good to see that
0:23:01you're listening on your fancy-pants
0:23:02earpods can take solace in the fact that
0:23:04is right ear hurts
0:23:05yeah did either of you guys order a pair
0:23:09Marco I'm I know you did so i guess i
0:23:11should ask you John did you order a pair
0:23:12i did i was excited to really i was i
0:23:15also i'm glad they did in the right time
0:23:17zone because i was awake and near a
0:23:19computer at the time everyone said
0:23:20airports are available and so people say
0:23:23our partners around when i click order
0:23:26and minor supposed to be delivered on
0:23:28the 21st yep same deal same with me i'm
0:23:31looking forward to how much they're
0:23:32gonna hurt my ears but i really only
0:23:34don't know is I honestly like all the
0:23:37apples here but and all all your buddies
0:23:39have always hurt my ears enough that i
0:23:41really can't ever use them
0:23:43I'm hoping these will be different
0:23:45because the immense convenience of them
0:23:50is you know I don't care how crappy they
0:23:53sound if they are comfortable at all i
0:23:56want to wear them on a regular basis to
0:23:57listen to podcasts while on-the-go that
0:23:59will be awesome and it will be extra
0:24:01awesome to just like you know their case
0:24:03is so small you can you can bring them
0:24:05like a you know like like all your but
0:24:06people have always known forever
0:24:08you can bring them like in a pocket or
0:24:09bag that would otherwise be too small
0:24:11for most other kinds of headphones so
0:24:14you can kind of always have them with
0:24:16you and that's something that I have
0:24:17wished for
0:24:18since I started carrying portable music
0:24:20devices it's a click
0:24:22you just always have it with you so that
0:24:24if you find yourself in a situation
0:24:25where you need it or wherever you'd like
0:24:27to listen to something you can just take
0:24:28your headphones out of your pocket and
0:24:29listen and I've never had one that small
0:24:31before because they don't fit my ears
0:24:33but i'm going to really try to make
0:24:35these work because I really want that
0:24:36convenience for everyday walking around
0:24:38to try whittling them down or something
0:24:40like a carving knife good carved himself
0:24:44from a bigger ipod the other thing to
0:24:46like you know as as i have used my
0:24:50iphone 7 more without its real headphone
0:24:52jack
0:24:53basically the more I live with the
0:24:55iphone 7 the less I ever want to use
0:24:58wired headphones with it again it it's
0:25:00not that you can't do it you know you
0:25:02know we know we can do it with the nine
0:25:03dollar dongle but it is such a clunky
0:25:06experience and such a limited experience
0:25:08like if you want to charge your phone on
0:25:09the plane I really do not intend to ever
0:25:13buy another pair of wired headphones
0:25:15that is intended for my desk ever again
0:25:18so how amazing would it be like this is
0:25:22casey's fantasy tonight is Marco gets
0:25:25the set of their pods and put some in
0:25:26his ears and realizes me you know these
0:25:29don't hurt my ears maybe this earbud
0:25:32thing ain't so bad and in typical Marco
0:25:35style fast-forward two months you know a
0:25:37casey have you ever heard of getting
0:25:39your ears poured in getting like in-ear
0:25:41monitors these things are amazing
0:25:44that's not the same thing you're not are
0:25:46not the same as 10 line now you know
0:25:48city seal going into your ear canal
0:25:50these are outside you know
0:25:53I i think is a long distance to go from
0:25:55ken Margo's weird-shaped years tolerate
0:25:57tolerate plain old earbuds which is what
0:26:00i would call these things too
0:26:02can I get some crap shoved right up in
0:26:05my ear that's a whole different thing
0:26:06but also like any in your monitors the
0:26:08guy I respect them as as category
0:26:12I've never remember where the myself I i
0:26:13I've tried I've tried a couple and i got
0:26:15like the fancy comply tips and all those
0:26:16things and and yet none of them really
0:26:18ever worked for me but they also are
0:26:21very different in the way they function
0:26:23in the first of all there are very few
0:26:25if any wireless ones and as you said I
0:26:27am right now for for my needs away from
0:26:30my desk i'm only interested in wireless
0:26:32from this point forward and the other
0:26:34problem is that they isolate really
0:26:36really well they really block out all
0:26:39outside sound and most of the time when
0:26:42i'm using my portable headphones that's
0:26:43actually not what I want
0:26:44if I'm like I'm like walking it you know
0:26:46around my town walking my dog walking
0:26:48down more than you know from the city or
0:26:50from walking through airport alone like
0:26:52i will use these headphones on all those
0:26:54times where I really don't want that
0:26:56much isolation from the outside world so
0:26:59I in your monitors are great for lots of
0:27:02people and use cases that I don't have
0:27:06no that's fair i in in case listeners
0:27:09you weren't aware I've been beat marco
0:27:11up for probably a year to now that my
0:27:15dad has a set of custom in-ear monitors
0:27:17that he had had done a couple years back
0:27:19where you go to some sort of special ear
0:27:22doctor I'm sure there's a term for it
0:27:24audiologist oh yeah we're an audiologist
0:27:26whatever the case may be in you and you
0:27:27get a mold made of your ear canal and
0:27:29then you send that mold to a company
0:27:31that will make a set of ear phones i
0:27:34guess they would be called that is
0:27:35molded for your ear specifically and i
0:27:38keep saying to Marco oh my god imagine
0:27:39how amazing it would be to have a
0:27:41speaker or a series of speakers the
0:27:43millimeters away from your ear drums or
0:27:46whatever the the receptacle is that you
0:27:48need to listen to things and everytime
0:27:51Marco said yes but anything that goes to
0:27:53my ears as evil and doesn't work and so
0:27:55that is the source of my fantasy is what
0:27:57if this was the way to get marco to try
0:27:59in your monitors and realize that this
0:28:01headphone businesses just a bunch of
0:28:02ways it's a total waste of time
0:28:04we'll see time will tell listeners time
0:28:06will tell
0:28:06anyway in any case i am actually hopeful
0:28:09that i will at some point receive a set
0:28:12of their pods I didn't buy them only
0:28:15because i don't i don't have an urgent
0:28:17need for them
0:28:18I I mean the holidays are coming up but
0:28:21i don't expect to receive them for the
0:28:22holidays by persons I did you do you
0:28:24expect did you not order them yourself
0:28:26that you sent casually send the URL
0:28:28Theron or something
0:28:29no no I thought about it but I didn't I
0:28:31didn't I got a good plan for something
0:28:33like that yeah probably not
0:28:35Plus aaron has been going on and on
0:28:36about how how this is going to be a
0:28:38great Christmas and Hanukkah for me and
0:28:40I got to tell you the truth I i did not
0:28:42do as well for her this year so I'm
0:28:43already feeling pretty guilty but anyway
0:28:45to set expectations
0:28:46yeah right so in any case I I think
0:28:50you're my birthday's in march so maybe
0:28:52i'll get it set pair whatever for my
0:28:54birthday I'm but I definitely want to
0:28:56try them i'm super intrigued by them I
0:28:58think they look really really awesome
0:29:00and i think it's it's a very aptly way
0:29:02like this to me is the Apple that the
0:29:05three of us love it in and i hope this
0:29:06doesn't take a negative term but this is
0:29:08Apple taking a thing that was annoying
0:29:10but we all want most of us lived with
0:29:12like the traditional bluetooth i am a
0:29:15proponent and defender of it but i
0:29:16cannot sit here and say it's perfect and
0:29:19it's flawless it's sufficient and inform
0:29:21me that the trade-offs are worth it but
0:29:23this this w one chip and all the fancy
0:29:25bluetooth stuff that they're doing this
0:29:27just looks awesome and it's solving a
0:29:29problem in the most aptly best possible
0:29:31way and I'm really looking forward to at
0:29:32least trying trying their pods at some
0:29:35point of not getting my own set and i
0:29:37agree with you Marco that that as much
0:29:39as I'm giving you a hard time in your
0:29:40monitors are not the right answer for
0:29:42like walking around or anything like
0:29:43that i had a sent to me a set of bone
0:29:48conducting headphones i will put a link
0:29:50in the show notes for the life of me I
0:29:51can't remember the the name of them and
0:29:53I apologize because it's it's right on
0:29:56the tip of my tongue but anyway we'll
0:29:57put a link in the show notes and I i I'd
0:29:59are talking about I've actually been
0:30:00meaning to try those myself but haven't
0:30:03quite gotten to it yet
0:30:04yeah well if you remind me I'm we're
0:30:06going to see each other in a few weeks
0:30:07and i'll bring you around that they are
0:30:09they are not the greatest for music it's
0:30:12it's a bit tinny which makes sense
0:30:13because if you're not familiar with bone
0:30:15conduction headphones way it works is
0:30:16there's nothing over here itself they go
0:30:18kind of
0:30:19around your ears and press I guess
0:30:21that's your cheekbones that are the the
0:30:24bones that kind of stick out a work well
0:30:26for your cheeks are anyways so they
0:30:28vibrate your cheekbones which kind of
0:30:29somehow vibrates the inner ear that
0:30:32sounds really scary and sketchy but
0:30:33actually it works really well in my word
0:30:36for podcasting they are for listening to
0:30:40podcasts i should say they are
0:30:41phenomenal and what's great about it is
0:30:44you can have them in and still be
0:30:47completely and totally aware of what's
0:30:49going on around you the aftershocks
0:30:52tracks titanium that is the name of the
0:30:54is the name of the headphones i'll put a
0:30:56link in the show notes and if all you're
0:30:58doing is listening to podcasts I cannot
0:31:00recommend these enough and i think that
0:31:02the air pods are going to fill a similar
0:31:05gap except they'll probably be far
0:31:07better for music now they'll probably
0:31:09have a little more isolation which is
0:31:10both good and bad but they'll probably
0:31:11be far better for music so i'm really
0:31:14anxious to try air pods hopefully you
0:31:16guys will bring a set and in you know
0:31:19i'll bring some like disinfecting wipes
0:31:20or something so after I tried that they
0:31:22can disinfect them but but i would love
0:31:24to try them when we see each other in a
0:31:26few weeks i am super amped to to see how
0:31:28these are and see what the real world
0:31:30says once they're out in the wild the
0:31:32one concern I have is and i remember now
0:31:34why didn't rush order the bone
0:31:36conduction ones the the mean issue I
0:31:39have with so many bluetooth headphones
0:31:41is a lack of easy you're good or any
0:31:45controls for volume seek back seat
0:31:48forward play pause the it like it you
0:31:51know regularly with the wireless you
0:31:53have the clicker and clickers its own
0:31:55you know set of challenges like the
0:31:57various multi click gestures doing is
0:31:59reliably is always a little tricky and
0:32:00everything but the reason I've stuck
0:32:03with my ugly sennheiser PX 2 10 BTW for
0:32:06so long is because it has these big
0:32:09plastic buttons on the right earcup and
0:32:11like right now it's getting cold outside
0:32:13so on a lot of my walks now wearing
0:32:15gloves and i couldn't i can feel and
0:32:18accurately push these giant plastic
0:32:20buttons through gloves even and it's you
0:32:24know one click for back one point
0:32:25forward you know pick up food up in a
0:32:27volume middle four paws like it's so
0:32:29convenient and almost every day
0:32:32good bluetooth headphone does not have
0:32:35good controls like almost all the other
0:32:37ones the ones the ones that are on your
0:32:39over here they get all fancy with like
0:32:41touch gestures and those are all believe
0:32:44me I've tried so many they are all awful
0:32:47that shuts the words like like i'll make
0:32:49a little swirl motion with your hand to
0:32:51turn the volume up
0:32:52yeah that works really precisely like it
0:32:55oh my god and there's delay and you
0:32:57gotta tap again know it's there they're
0:32:59so unreliable to so annoying
0:33:01that's always a challenge of lieutenant
0:33:03Andy you gotta figure out kind of
0:33:05physical design problem like where do
0:33:06you put the controls on some of these
0:33:08and the air pods from from you know what
0:33:11we know so far they only have one
0:33:14controller gesture which is a tier
0:33:16tapper DoubleTap i forget do you
0:33:17remember which one
0:33:18anyway whatever it is it's by default
0:33:21and toggle Cirie and you can apparently
0:33:24change it in the preferences to instead
0:33:26be a play/pause button but that's it
0:33:29and so I I do worry about that and I am
0:33:33I worried about that with it as it with
0:33:34all bluetooth headphones because most of
0:33:35them have either bad to know controls so
0:33:38I that I think is going to be
0:33:40frustrating to only have play pause
0:33:43control or you can ask Syria to play and
0:33:46pause your stuff but that's I don't
0:33:48think that would be good for for me to
0:33:50remain positive but apple stuff so I i
0:33:53think i'm not going to configure mind
0:33:54that way but I you know I i assume the
0:33:57dsi I guess the the design assumption
0:34:00here is that maybe you'll want to
0:34:02control things either all through Syria
0:34:04which is probably not great or through
0:34:07the apple watch or through your phone by
0:34:09taking out your pocket everything and
0:34:10those are all ok answers none of them
0:34:13are as good as having actual physical
0:34:14controls that are near or on the
0:34:16headphones but we'll see how that works
0:34:19in practice I i think the air pods
0:34:20overall will be so incredibly convenient
0:34:23that will probably be willing to
0:34:25overlook the annoyance of the lack of
0:34:28physical controls on them even though
0:34:30that will be a big annoyance but i think
0:34:32the comedians we'll just be so great
0:34:33that it that will overlook that there's
0:34:36another wireless dongle to be the
0:34:38controller you got the year because I
0:34:42mean as far as I'm concerned it's not
0:34:43you mean like an Apple watch
0:34:45I would probably take that in fact I did
0:34:46wear my Apple watch recently just a
0:34:47congratulation give it to happen but I
0:34:50what's going on me but like I just don't
0:34:55want the wire connecting because that
0:34:57gets caught on things and it's annoying
0:34:58so if and also like reaching into my
0:35:02pocket to try to find the volume on my
0:35:03phone I can probably pull that off but i
0:35:05don't think there's any hardware button
0:35:07I can hit on my phone that will advance
0:35:09or go back right
0:35:11funny thing i actually I prototype to a
0:35:13while ago with overcast I i use the
0:35:15accelerometer on the phone during
0:35:17playback to try to detect if you would
0:35:19just tap the phone in your pocket you
0:35:21just hit the back with your finger and
0:35:23try to interpret tap gestures the same
0:35:25way you do it on a remote clicker and I
0:35:27almost got a working you can actually do
0:35:29it and it works ok but it doesn't work
0:35:32reliably enough it like I i get through
0:35:35to be good for maybe like two-thirds of
0:35:37the time but that's not that's nowhere
0:35:38close to have a reliable has to pee to
0:35:40make it actually usable that 13 your
0:35:43phone out the window but I actually I
0:35:46wanted to solve this exact problem like
0:35:48just I want to remote control my pocket
0:35:49just go tap tap
0:35:50you know or whatever it is just tapping
0:35:52the back here at the back your phone in
0:35:53your pocket as you're walking and you
0:35:55don't want to have something I want I
0:35:56want button sewing buttons that I can
0:35:58feel buttons you can feel with gloves on
0:35:59even but you can tap it with those onto
0:36:01doesn't matter
0:36:01yeah tapping tapping is my not not the
0:36:05way the closet but your Apple have to be
0:36:06frontmost right know if it's playing
0:36:08audio i can get it can be continuing
0:36:10right well anyway I'm I don't want to
0:36:12tap anything i'm gonna buy anything but
0:36:14sold on manufacturing sold the processed
0:36:17that's the second one you guys mr. not
0:36:21well I i get that is a reference I
0:36:24forget what it's a reference from its
0:36:26always on back to work
0:36:27that's that's always been the movie you
0:36:28haven't seen that's what is a reference
0:36:30to like so many things in life well
0:36:31that's that every movie right
0:36:33real-time follow-up from Mason smell it
0:36:36is double tap and you can choose to
0:36:39either have that engage serie play pause
0:36:42or do nothing at all
0:36:44also Mason smell would like to tell john
0:36:46siracusa that it was saying anything and
0:36:48say anything that you're right now Jason
0:36:49knows how are you can have to do nothing
0:36:51at all it's a great option it's usually
0:36:53excuse me it's mason that works speaking
0:36:55with thank you very much
0:36:56I'm impressed that you're that you're
0:36:57keeping the street because I'm trying
0:36:59real hard you have no idea
0:37:00Teddy K so yeah so it's everywhere all
0:37:03amped for our new head forward air
0:37:05earpods earpods whatever we're calling
0:37:07them headphones things you can't give
0:37:08that strict it whenever I move on from
0:37:10their pods uh if they have apple sold
0:37:13like applecare+ for air pods for like
0:37:16thirty to fifty dollars would you buy it
0:37:18would cover well cover like if you lose
0:37:22one of them are if it falls and you step
0:37:24on it or whatever like instead of having
0:37:25to buy a whole because i'm assuming your
0:37:26only option is a one falls out of your
0:37:28ears or gets knocked down and you step
0:37:30on it breaks is your only option hundred
0:37:32sixty dollars out of pocket to buy an
0:37:33entire new set you can't just buy one
0:37:35right so the applecare thing would like
0:37:3730 to 50 bucks where you get you know if
0:37:39you get you damage them to lose them
0:37:41anyway you get a replacement for another
0:37:4350 or some crap like that would you buy
0:37:44that i don't think i would but I'm
0:37:46cheapest health so I'm gonna try to
0:37:48gauge is like you predicted you're gonna
0:37:50have problems either losing or breaking
0:37:51these things I don't think so
0:37:53Margo my policy with buying extended
0:37:57warranties most of the time is to not
0:38:00buy them and then if in my life and
0:38:03having to pay out of pocket for so many
0:38:04repairs that it would have been more
0:38:06expensive than buying all these things
0:38:08you know up to that point then i will
0:38:11start buying the extended warranties
0:38:12from that point forward that your policy
0:38:14is closed the door at barn door after
0:38:16the horse is gone but it's my fault
0:38:19she's basically like let me let me take
0:38:21the risk and see if in my life I need to
0:38:24pay this kind of insurance premium or
0:38:26not and so far in my life it you know in
0:38:29my entire adult life of owning expensive
0:38:31gadgets i have almost never bought the
0:38:34extended warranty and have also almost
0:38:35never needed one so I'm coming out way
0:38:39ahead basically have you thought about
0:38:41ensuring your watches for either theft
0:38:43or damage
0:38:44I'm genuinely asking i'm not trying to
0:38:46be snarky no I have I mean it's smart it
0:38:48you know it's in when you have like
0:38:49homeowners insurance that's a different
0:38:51that's a different thing and so yeah we
0:38:53have we have the we have we have our
0:38:56jewelry items covered under the
0:38:58homeowners insurance that you know
0:38:59specifically like under like a writer
0:39:01for them but that's very different and
0:39:03way cheaper than 350 dollars for every
0:39:05lap I sure sure
0:39:07is it through and fifty dollars for
0:39:08laptops
0:39:09that I think for the 15 th i think it's
0:39:11300-350 credit on my laptop's when and
0:39:14so with apple like it so the the price
0:39:17of the warranty does not take into
0:39:20account the price of the options when
0:39:21you buy it so like the warranty for the
0:39:24base model mac pro that's three thousand
0:39:27dollars is the exact same price as if
0:39:29you spec it all up make it like nine
0:39:31thousand dollars so if i'm buying lately
0:39:34so for my imac i actually did buy the
0:39:36extended warranty be cause my imac was
0:39:39something like a 4400 configuration it's
0:39:41like that like it as much as you can put
0:39:43into an imac when i bought it two years
0:39:44ago and the end it was priced at
0:39:48something like 200 bucks for the for the
0:39:50similarity so i did buy for that
0:39:52figuring like this is a large thing with
0:39:54everything inside and get this is a
0:39:56really is very small percentage of the
0:39:58cost based on the cost of the whole of
0:40:00the whole item and so I figured like you
0:40:03know the the the risk-reward ratio there
0:40:06was different but on on almost
0:40:08everything else I don't get it because
0:40:10almost everything else doesn't make any
0:40:11sense
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0:41:14Marco had an experience today or
0:41:20recently anyway would you like to tell
0:41:21us about that
0:41:22oh I went to microsoft store i'm so
0:41:25sorry i mean really how was it
0:41:27so I was in the mall recently I had some
0:41:29time to kill while my wife and kid but
0:41:31did something else so I when the
0:41:34microsoft store and amazingly there was
0:41:37nobody there
0:41:38really seriously so crowded so I got to
0:41:41play with the big surface to get a
0:41:43display so stark aside i I'm genuinely
0:41:45interested to hear how you thought of
0:41:47this because at a glance this thing does
0:41:49look pretty damn cool we talked about
0:41:51this a few episodes ago i'm curious so
0:41:54did you did you play with the tilt did
0:41:56you play with a little dangly thing tell
0:41:57us all about it so I did I i play with
0:42:00everything so first of all the base is
0:42:02way too light like it they at the base
0:42:04of it interesting that they use these
0:42:06laptop components like you know the
0:42:08people accuse the imac being happy with
0:42:09the imac is kind of a combination of
0:42:11desktop and microphones mostly desktop
0:42:14parts really the the surface to do is
0:42:17really laptop components and the base of
0:42:19it is very small and light it's a lot
0:42:23smaller than you think and kind of
0:42:25unnecessarily so like one of the point
0:42:28of use i have it was like while tilting
0:42:30it would kind of wobble sometimes
0:42:31because it's just like the screen is so
0:42:33much heavier than the base that kinda
0:42:36out of it
0:42:37I don't know why they had to make the
0:42:38base so tight and so tiny and take all
0:42:41the trade-offs of lower power components
0:42:43to do that I think that was probably a
0:42:45mistake but oh well
0:42:46well I think part of their advertising
0:42:48pitches that it's supposed to be easy to
0:42:50move around like it's not supposed to
0:42:52feel like it is rooted in whatever place
0:42:53it is because you get you can imagine
0:42:55having it set up on its vertical like a
0:42:57screen it would be positioned
0:42:58differently than when it's the other way
0:43:00so i think i think they actually have
0:43:01like a lazy susan on the bottom type of
0:43:03things we can rotate I think it's
0:43:04supposed to be light enough that you
0:43:05don't feel like it is anchored to the
0:43:07desk at the place where it's put that's
0:43:09fair okay and and it i mean does feel
0:43:11like you can you move around freely and
0:43:13it really does feel what it feels like a
0:43:15giant tablet it does not feel like a
0:43:18desktop computer so I got to play with
0:43:20the the whatever they call their their
0:43:22stylist and whatever they call the big
0:43:23knob the surface style
0:43:26not sure it depends call but surface
0:43:27style is the the knob cool so I got to
0:43:30play with play with the the big knob
0:43:33well I got to feel the big knob however
0:43:35not improving none of the apps that that
0:43:38I tried which was like something I
0:43:40already forgot what it was and then I
0:43:42spent a lot of time in lightroom and
0:43:43lightroom did not support the big knob
0:43:45so i did not get to get to use it for
0:43:48anything really so i put the big knob
0:43:50down and I just play with the stylus and
0:43:52and using the end and the touchscreen
0:43:55and this is the first time I've I think
0:43:57ever played with a touch screen windows
0:44:00pc oh no I i play with windows 8 1 back
0:44:02into anyway so I have very little
0:44:04experience with touchscreen Windows PCs
0:44:07and i never use like a mod book or
0:44:09anything so I've never tried a mac OS
0:44:10either but I am I do have a lot of
0:44:12students in lightroom and so I figured
0:44:15let me try light rivers it's a program
0:44:16already know how to use let me see how
0:44:17it works on this thing I gotta say I've
0:44:20really liked it and and there are things
0:44:23I didn't like about it but overall it
0:44:26was surprisingly good
0:44:28like even using using touch control in a
0:44:32desktop OS which everyone says is a
0:44:33terrible thing
0:44:36honestly I suggest you try it because it
0:44:39I i'm not entirely sure i'd want to do
0:44:42it full time but to have the option it
0:44:44was kind of cool to be able to to
0:44:48control lightroom this program already
0:44:50know how to use pretty well and people
0:44:52do things like you know when when using
0:44:54a touchscreen you effectively have
0:44:56multiple pointing devices simultaneously
0:44:57so you know when you're sitting here on
0:44:59a desktop using using a mouse you're
0:45:01controlling one mouse cursor and even if
0:45:03you get all fancy like I do when you
0:45:04have a track down the left mouse in the
0:45:06right you have to point devices your
0:45:08sterling also only controlling one mouse
0:45:09pointer and there's only one thing at a
0:45:11time they can have that much pointer you
0:45:12know that there's a lot you only point
0:45:14to one thing that I'm going to click on
0:45:15one thing at a time when you have a
0:45:16touchscreen even the setup environment
0:45:19you effectively have like multiple input
0:45:21points at any given time you can use
0:45:22your different fingers in different
0:45:23hands so it actually was really easy to
0:45:28work in Lightroom very quickly on this
0:45:30thing and I i can see like it would have
0:45:34been a lot better if it was designed for
0:45:36it and I guess this is the case for just
0:45:38big iPads
0:45:39because they are designed for in the
0:45:41star but it was pretty cool like and of
0:45:44course I Eileen the whole thing down i
0:45:46did like the the almost flat on the desk
0:45:49screen arrangement to do most of this I
0:45:50was it wasn't up if it's up it straight
0:45:52up vertical then touching it makes no
0:45:54sense i agree with that but when it's
0:45:55kinda like drafting table angle it
0:45:58actually worked surprisingly well and i
0:46:02still really didn't like any part of
0:46:04windows at all and it I wasn't confused
0:46:08by it really like you know I used was
0:46:10long enough i have a rough idea of the
0:46:12windows vocabulary how to do things
0:46:13because most of it's still the same from
0:46:16from how it was back when I was no
0:46:18winners expert so you know that the
0:46:21Corvette is still the same and so you
0:46:23know most of windows I still don't like
0:46:25however if you are by a computer whose
0:46:29main purpose was to be like a creative
0:46:31work station to run a particular app
0:46:33like lightroom or photoshop or like a
0:46:36video editor if that app runs on Windows
0:46:39without any kind of massive downsides
0:46:41this could be a really compelling option
0:46:44like really if I end and so because
0:46:47Microsoft is positioning it that way
0:46:49they're they're using this as like a
0:46:50creative thing you put in a studio that
0:46:52we were you you're basically buying a
0:46:54workstation you know for the purpose of
0:46:56running like one or two creative apps
0:46:57like as your main thing as your main
0:47:00role for the computer this is actually
0:47:03pretty compelling but I I can really see
0:47:05like it basically what you're doing
0:47:08doesn't really if it doesn't really
0:47:10matter that is running on windows like
0:47:12it's one of the adobe apps it's it's
0:47:14kinda cool and I did have issues with
0:47:17like you know like room has a lot of
0:47:20very tiny interface elements little tiny
0:47:22sliders and everything and what they
0:47:24were a little hard to hit with with the
0:47:26pen sometimes but it wouldn't take a lot
0:47:28of adjustment if adobe really want to
0:47:30put an effort into this to make that
0:47:31really awesome also windows like I I
0:47:35don't know what the deal is windows high
0:47:36DPI mode
0:47:37I know it's a mess but basically like
0:47:39you know with Apple you just 2x
0:47:42everything with retina and everything
0:47:44kind of just worked and developers had
0:47:46to do a little work but not much and it
0:47:47was great with Windows I guess they have
0:47:49like that they have their high DPI motor
0:47:51they can scale to any number
0:47:53pixels and they kind of scale some
0:47:55interface elements but not all of them
0:47:57and so you had like ridiculously tiny
0:48:01little text and tiny little checkboxes
0:48:03in the middle of giant block of
0:48:04interfaces it was very strange yep so
0:48:06obviously up that I decide to but I I
0:48:09tried to run my vm that I was working in
0:48:12a few weeks ago I tried to run that high
0:48:14DPI mode and it was really really bad
0:48:18like some things were tiny like you said
0:48:20some things were the size I expected
0:48:22them to be the fonts were just not built
0:48:24for high DPI like it was just a really
0:48:26crummy experience as compared to the mac
0:48:29where I am NOT trying to be funny but
0:48:31everything really does just work the Mac
0:48:33was gonna be that the way you described
0:48:35windows as for a long time I get to I
0:48:37think I remember I was WBC two thousand
0:48:39seven ish where they were saying come
0:48:412008 resolution independence as they
0:48:43called it then we'll be here so prepare
0:48:45your apps and then 2008 came and they
0:48:48didn't used to be a little slider in the
0:48:49resolution you go 1 x 1.5 x 2x 3x and
0:48:52you can just move that slide around and
0:48:54watch every interface on your computer
0:48:55break essentially got pixel cracks you
0:48:58got things that are not scaling the
0:49:00right size you get ugly crap
0:49:01it was so smart of them to just spend an
0:49:03extra few years fair figure out how to
0:49:05make like that they weren't going to
0:49:07ship it in a state where somebody could
0:49:09configure their mac to look this gross
0:49:11and so eventually the solution came up
0:49:13as we all know is this 2x4 it's nothing
0:49:16and even that was hard enough to get
0:49:18everyone on board with but at least one
0:49:20that works it works right and
0:49:23predictably yeah that Apple definitely
0:49:25been on the right side of history and
0:49:27that one that the end because windows is
0:49:29very much suffering from this anyway so
0:49:33yeah there's issues with windows for
0:49:34sure and and again like I wouldn't be
0:49:37interested at all in this computer if I
0:49:39wanted to if I wanted to be like a
0:49:41general-purpose computer or my main
0:49:43computer but again if I were building a
0:49:45computer whose sole purpose was to be
0:49:47like a photo editing workstation i would
0:49:49really give this serious consideration
0:49:50because it really was surprisingly good
0:49:53and I went in there all thinking you
0:49:55know a lot let me like taking mental
0:49:57notes and how much everything sucks i
0:49:58can be funny on the show but no it
0:50:01actually is good like and I yeah I
0:50:03wouldn't I wouldn't you
0:50:05no I wouldn't say it was it was terrible
0:50:07if it wasn't and here i am saying it's
0:50:09not terrible it really it like if you
0:50:12can tolerate windows in general it's a
0:50:14really cool computer so what was the
0:50:16pending latency like did you doing like
0:50:18drawing in any of the drawing i know
0:50:19that's a lot of that app dependent as it
0:50:20isn't the ipad for example how notes on
0:50:22the ipad is like perfect and many
0:50:24drawing apps like I don't like a pro
0:50:28create or paper a lot of those attending
0:50:29or brush using your leggy but anyway
0:50:31that one of the complaints that I heard
0:50:32about the service studio is that the
0:50:35parallax was a little bit off like these
0:50:37the guys at the glam distance between
0:50:38the the glass that you touch and the
0:50:41place where the pixels are was enough to
0:50:43make it feel weird and also that some
0:50:45people said it feels like in certain
0:50:46situations the the parallax glass gap
0:50:49thing is a real problem it i didn't use
0:50:52it for any kind of drawing i really only
0:50:54use it for like sighs some apple
0:50:56launched by two seconds and I could I
0:50:57can figure out and then I just want to
0:50:59like rumors that you had to use that
0:51:00button so i was mainly using the pen
0:51:02tool i dragged around sliders and stuff
0:51:04so for that basically using it as a as a
0:51:06precision mouse pointer it's great and
0:51:08and in fact i really enjoyed doing that
0:51:12because like in the same hand that I had
0:51:15the pen in here i have his fingers doing
0:51:17nothing and so if i wanted to like you
0:51:19know you do like the one of the pictures
0:51:21just my other fingers it mostly worked
0:51:23great and like palm recognition was
0:51:26great
0:51:27distinguishing between pen and touch was
0:51:29great there was I don't think in my
0:51:31panic i pray you sir for 10 minutes
0:51:34I don't think there was a single time
0:51:36when it misinterpreted one of my inputs
0:51:40like it seemed like it was really really
0:51:43quite good at that for latency is tough
0:51:46to judge because remember when the ipad
0:51:47pro came out with the pencil latency
0:51:50varies a lot by the application it you
0:51:53know really depends a lot of what you're
0:51:54doing in the app so it was easy with the
0:51:56Apple pencil that you know to to be like
0:51:58oh you can measure with notes example
0:51:59did a lot of work to make notes really
0:52:00fast and I with the note sketching thing
0:52:02you can also go and look at one of the
0:52:04fancier our taps their brushes were way
0:52:06slower and wail a gear on the same
0:52:09hardware at the same time just give
0:52:11their apples and as optimizer it was
0:52:12doing way more complex rendering and so
0:52:15I I can't really judge the surface to do
0:52:17in that way
0:52:18I can judge how how the pen was an ass
0:52:21pointer to adjust sliders in lightroom
0:52:22and it was great and it was also really
0:52:24nice to have like the pen slider in my
0:52:26right hand you know that depending on
0:52:27the slider my right hand and using my
0:52:29left hand to pinch and zoom and pan
0:52:31around the photos editing as i drag the
0:52:33slider i mean again like to have that
0:52:35kind of multiple input multiple
0:52:36multifunction having multiple pointing
0:52:38devices is really compelling when it's
0:52:41done well and I i have never felt that
0:52:44productive on an iPad mostly because
0:52:46like you know the the kind of apps I use
0:52:48for high-end creative needs aren't
0:52:51really on the ipad yes there's like
0:52:52romantic but it's kinda crappy it's not
0:52:55really the same thing and also like
0:52:58that's not you know it's the hardware is
0:53:00not quite up to speed to to manage like
0:53:02giant photos and stuff like that so like
0:53:04iPads don't get this kind of use from me
0:53:06and from from i think most people who
0:53:07are dealing with this high-end creative
0:53:08use right now but in the future if there
0:53:13is a huge ipad that even you know even
0:53:15bigger the point you know that like now
0:53:17I finally get why you would want to
0:53:20giant iPad like even bigger than fine
0:53:22like why you want to 27 I finally
0:53:24understand that now you know it would be
0:53:27a desktop and it would be fine like I I
0:53:29totally get it so overall without
0:53:32drawing without too much longer I really
0:53:33just I just wanted to say like I was
0:53:36blown away by how good it was and i'm
0:53:39not going to go out and buy one because
0:53:40i really have a need in my life for a
0:53:43like single-purpose workstation computer
0:53:45that's like a lightroom station like i
0:53:47don't i don't need that
0:53:49but if i needed that I'd probably buy
0:53:51one of these all my arguing off forever
0:53:53over so many episodes so many hours and
0:53:56the thing that convinced you is going to
0:53:58microsoft store using one and not even
0:54:00drawing on it
0:54:01there you go tigers on store I can't
0:54:03just hand thing and you say you know
0:54:05what I want to do I want to don't want
0:54:07to use the pen as a mouse cursor in life
0:54:10and application is not even optimized
0:54:12for touch but hey whatever works for you
0:54:13whatever works too i guess I just wasn't
0:54:15convincing as it should have pictures it
0:54:17think of this mark
0:54:18imagine if using Lightroom a non-touch
0:54:20optimized app and use the pen is a mouse
0:54:22now would you buy one
0:54:23yeah now i find that convincing know
0:54:25honestly like really you know it's it's
0:54:27very tactile until I actually did it and
0:54:30and you
0:54:31used it and tried and and especially
0:54:33because i was using an app but i already
0:54:35had to use i was already fast with i was
0:54:37able to really see how much this kind of
0:54:41interaction can help because I wasn't
0:54:43just trying to figure out a brand-new
0:54:44after the first time I'm stumbling
0:54:45around going off slow and do this is
0:54:47because not only was actually you know
0:54:49going through things that I do in this
0:54:51app things already know how to do and
0:54:54and workflows that I have i'll try this
0:54:56then do this then do this way I could I
0:54:58could get it get an idea of like is this
0:55:00is actually more productive is this you
0:55:02know is doing what the upside for the
0:55:04downsides and honestly I had a hard time
0:55:06finding downsides the daily downsize
0:55:08windows so you're gonna make your all
0:55:10your audio editor application for
0:55:12Windows now the surface to do because
0:55:14imagine how awesome that would be as I
0:55:16said many times your audio editing
0:55:17application on the big giant touchscreen
0:55:19i have actually thought about like it i
0:55:22saw i don't know work on your idea
0:55:24better so far guy i have a conference in
0:55:26my head yeah but I've done no actual
0:55:27coding so the options totally open of
0:55:29where i would actually do this if I ever
0:55:31choose to do it and my main debate point
0:55:34in my head was like should i do this on
0:55:35the ipad or on the mac and I've been
0:55:38leaning towards Mac but I i gotta say
0:55:40the the appeal of doing this kind of
0:55:42thing with multi-touch it is something
0:55:46and maybe the touch bar on the Mac would
0:55:48be enough
0:55:48I don't know but but i do think it is
0:55:51worth four for all of us in in the mac
0:55:55commenters fear who I apologize
0:55:58whoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo written off the
0:56:01idea of touch screens on the desktop
0:56:04like you know it's easy to just kinda
0:56:06like repeat the kind of kind of the
0:56:08company line where the party line of
0:56:11like no you that's a bad idea you
0:56:12shouldn't like we don't need that the
0:56:14desktop system does have nobody to touch
0:56:15screen pc i think that is that is a bad
0:56:20assumption it is possible to do this
0:56:22well and Microsoft already almost has if
0:56:26the software ecosystem was better on
0:56:27Windows it would be incredible
0:56:30it's not because and the software
0:56:32systems kind of thing that doesn't you
0:56:34know that doesn't turn on a dime a dozen
0:56:35all the sudden become perfect you know
0:56:38in in six months just because microsoft
0:56:40releases one desktop the very few people
0:56:41probably by but
0:56:44I don't think we can say with confidence
0:56:46that Apple should never do something
0:56:49like the surface studio interesting you
0:56:52just say I'm right that's all right
0:56:53you're gonna shut this hashtag John's
0:56:56right arm was right again go ahead by a
0:56:59so how funny would it be if it ends up
0:57:03that during the run of the show like
0:57:05neutral had the Ark of you deciding upon
0:57:08purchasing and receiving an m5 is the
0:57:11Ark of the accidental text podcast for
0:57:13me to finally abandoned dotnet and
0:57:16windows only to have you go crawling
0:57:18back to windows and then suddenly become
0:57:20Hittite net developer because that would
0:57:22be funny
0:57:23I i was saying that Microsoft wants to
0:57:25send review units my nine-year-old
0:57:26daughter loves to draw with love to try
0:57:29out a surface to do
0:57:30yes because I'm sure so many Microsoft
0:57:32employees listen to the show you a lot
0:57:34of nine-year-olds have
0:57:35three-thousand-dollar 28 inch tablet
0:57:36computers that's better at all the kids
0:57:38have these days
0:57:38the other thing is like if i were to buy
0:57:40it like if I wanted 144 my stated i
0:57:43stated idea of like having it be a
0:57:44lightroom workstation I would want a
0:57:47more powerful computer for it like i
0:57:48would i would much rather hear what
0:57:50service studio pro right like i would
0:57:53much rather have the the monitor part
0:57:56just be a monitor that I could plug into
0:57:58any pc and then by like a ridiculous
0:58:00xeon workstation with like 12 cores and
0:58:03and have that be my crazy importer and
0:58:06processor because lightroom is very well
0:58:08paralyzed for all of its operations and
0:58:10then would actually use that power and
0:58:11really needs extra speed so that's that
0:58:14is it one it's a little odd that they
0:58:15don't have like a standard option yet
0:58:17but i would imagine like if for some
0:58:19reason a lot of people buy this thing
0:58:21maybe they'll go that direction released
0:58:22as a product and you know the good thing
0:58:24about the windows ecosystem is that
0:58:25other people could basically do that and
0:58:27it would probably be alright so what you
0:58:29need is a xeon pcz on workstation that
0:58:32comes in a case it looks identical to
0:58:34one of your weird German amplifier
0:58:36thingamabobber that you've already got
0:58:38on your desk so you just good looking at
0:58:40different the only difference is you
0:58:41just take your screen and tilt it down
0:58:42and wax on kvm with your toe or
0:58:45something all of a sudden you're running
0:58:46off of your aluminum amplifier tube
0:58:50thing that's really a pc yeah maybe so
0:58:53question for you having experienced this
0:58:55touchscreen p
0:58:57see which I think it is important to
0:58:59note that that if its pitch the way an
0:59:03imac is pitched it you said that you
0:59:06didn't really care for the touch screen
0:59:07features that way only when it was in
0:59:08kind of diesel motor or drafting table
0:59:11mode is that fair
0:59:12yeah okay so that being said now that
0:59:15you've seen a touchscreen pc and said
0:59:17yeah maybe it's not so bad
0:59:19does that change your opinion on the
0:59:21touch bar for better for worse or
0:59:22otherwise i still think it's way too
0:59:26early to say so and it also very much
0:59:30depends on the app and and what they're
0:59:32using the touch bar for you know in in
0:59:34my YouTube review like comment subscribe
0:59:35my main focus on the touch bar is it is
0:59:40it is not good as a row of buttons if I
0:59:42have to look at it I have failed the
0:59:45touch bars best as a sliding door
0:59:48panting surface you know and it does
0:59:50support multitouch like a sport so you
0:59:51could do a pinch gesture on it but you
0:59:53could also just on the trackpad below so
0:59:55it kinda like a I don't know like how it
0:59:59again
0:59:59again
1:00:00depends on the app i don't know like
1:00:01what makes sense to do in the touch bar
1:00:03versus using the trackpad if you know
1:00:06some apps you know as I mentioned it's
1:00:07nice to have multiple simultaneous touch
1:00:10input surfaces so one thing you could do
1:00:12is have your left hand on the touch bar
1:00:14have your right hand the trackpad and
1:00:15have that be two different inputs for
1:00:17you know things like panning a timeline
1:00:19vs moving the playhead like stuff like
1:00:21that is all sorts of of stuff you could
1:00:22do in in creative pro apps and lots of
1:00:25apps to make use of that it's way too
1:00:27early to tell for sure now what works
1:00:31and what doesn't
1:00:32long-term but certainly meet my
1:00:34immediate upfront impression might my
1:00:37early youth impression of the touch bar
1:00:38is if its row of buttons i never use it
1:00:41but when it's used as some kind of big
1:00:43slider that is that is nice so we'll see
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1:02:09so it's tomorrow which means by the time
1:02:14you're listening to this today or
1:02:17perhaps yesterday that Super Mario run
1:02:20has been released to the App Store and I
1:02:23hope you're not getting on an airplane
1:02:25because you won't be able to play it
1:02:27because it is online only you must
1:02:29maintain a connection to the internet in
1:02:31order to play what what is that about
1:02:34the theories about what that's about our
1:02:37copy protection you know so everything
1:02:41is pirated the app stores and the theory
1:02:43goes that it is slightly harder to
1:02:46pirate it when you have to also deal
1:02:48with a phone home features that you have
1:02:50to bypass in addition to cracking the
1:02:52whatever you know to get it illegally
1:02:55I'm not entirely sure if I by that I
1:02:57mean historically nintendo has been
1:02:59really not smart about copy protection
1:03:02in that they will do things that they
1:03:03think are saving them from piracy when
1:03:06really like that the decrease in piracy
1:03:09is not a good match for the pain that
1:03:12they put regular users true like
1:03:14Nintendo makes really bad trade-offs
1:03:15that historically you can't entirely
1:03:17discount Terry even though practically
1:03:19speaking it doesn't seem like it would
1:03:21do anything except to make it slightly
1:03:23more difficult to pirate it and I think
1:03:25there's a lot of motivation to pirate
1:03:27this thing because it's gonna be popular
1:03:29second one you can't really discount is
1:03:33just plain not going to saying
1:03:35competence but like there is an online
1:03:37component to the game just having it be
1:03:40online all the time as a simplification
1:03:41friend development and it could have
1:03:46just been maybe they didn't think it
1:03:47would be a big deal and they
1:03:48miscalculated and it's simpler to do
1:03:49this way anyway and they will you know
1:03:52this one's different situations where if
1:03:55it's not some wrongheaded misguided
1:03:58notion about piracy that they will
1:03:59update the game eventually to allow
1:04:01offline play maybe you have it's like
1:04:02six months to a year from now that they
1:04:04will update when they get around to it
1:04:05they just didn't get around to it and
1:04:07well you know they will do a slow-motion
1:04:09reconsideration so yeah we messed up is
1:04:13what what is the third option is there
1:04:15any third explanation for online-only
1:04:17besides the competence and
1:04:19wrongheaded ideas about piracy analytics
1:04:23I guess dynamic content you can always
1:04:27do that periodically yeah i mean anyway
1:04:30the bottom line is it's I don't think it
1:04:32will affect the game because people are
1:04:34going to buy based on the brand it may
1:04:35affect how satisfied people are with the
1:04:38game so that when content comes out with
1:04:40its second game they will have to
1:04:41emphasize the fact that you're able to
1:04:42run it offline but yeah it does it does
1:04:46not seem like it in 10 don't very often
1:04:48find some weights to do something silly
1:04:51with every one of the things that should
1:04:53be should appear win so I don't think it
1:04:57will affect the fortunes of this game
1:04:59just because there's so much pent-up
1:05:00demand for something Nintendo but
1:05:02besides pokemon and you know something
1:05:04mary on on iOS so I think that sometimes
1:05:07I think what is the price gonna be 10
1:05:08bucks i believe so yeah so I think
1:05:11they'll do just fine with it but it big
1:05:13yeah it's it's pretty it's not a good
1:05:15idea to have this thing be online only
1:05:17that's just just going to annoy people
1:05:19yeah and they're there was a great
1:05:21discussion about this on connected this
1:05:23week and one of the things that Mike was
1:05:25saying is like putting out if this is a
1:05:27huge thing like these kind of casual
1:05:30quickplay one-handed play games for four
1:05:34phones are really often used for people
1:05:37who are commuting like on a subway
1:05:39underground or who are flying in a plane
1:05:41like it's very often used while
1:05:42traveling commuting and there's gonna be
1:05:44so many times where people would play
1:05:47this game like an everyday subway
1:05:49commute where your underground you got
1:05:51no connection and you just can't play it
1:05:54and that's really unfortunate
1:05:56yeah I wonder if it's gonna be a wonder
1:05:58you know it will it take not launch or
1:06:01what does it want to phone home
1:06:02periodically and you can play for some
1:06:04period of time then eventually will
1:06:05complain to you that peasant phone tone
1:06:07oh I don't know how what the mechanism
1:06:08is going to be like good it's even i
1:06:11have a hard time believing that the game
1:06:12won't even launch without a connection
1:06:13but who knows
1:06:14I mean it's Nintendo's first tried this
1:06:17and maybe they just totally messed up by
1:06:19thinking the entire world as connected
1:06:21as Japan's or something I don't know
1:06:23that it just definitely seems like a
1:06:25miscalculation especially since this is
1:06:26not a paid upfront game so it's not as
1:06:28if it's like well we've got your money
1:06:30they don't they they want you to buy the
1:06:31unlock
1:06:32and you're not going to buy the unlock
1:06:33it the first two times you try to play
1:06:34it it's a sorry can't play because
1:06:37you're offline
1:06:38just try it i mean back in the day you
1:06:41know I know Marco that you were a second
1:06:42kind of guy but I was a nintendo kind of
1:06:44guy when I was a kid and had everything
1:06:47from the original nes all the way
1:06:50through the Nintendo 64 and then
1:06:52eventually we this is something that
1:06:55should appeal to me and so I'm anxious
1:06:57to try it but it and I don't expect this
1:07:00online only thing is really gonna bother
1:07:01me much but I do think it's a bomber and
1:07:03I would not put it past nintendo like
1:07:05you said job to just be silly about this
1:07:08decision and just not realizing that
1:07:10this is more harm than good
1:07:12but easy for me to say i have to say
1:07:15that the Nintendo doesn't feel like they
1:07:17have doctors that was gonna say mastery
1:07:21but i would say they don't even have a
1:07:22handle on the mobile gaming yet because
1:07:25all they have is another one game with a
1:07:27partner that in develop their niantic or
1:07:30whatever play the Pokemon go thing which
1:07:31is a second cut an idea that they've
1:07:34already tried once and it does take
1:07:36advantage of things that are uniquely
1:07:38mobile expect you walk around with it
1:07:40and stuff like that so come on goes is a
1:07:41pretty good job and takes advantage of
1:07:43some unique things but this game itself
1:07:45was a little bit buggy and sketching the
1:07:47beginning anyway that was a nintendo and
1:07:50this i forget his nintendo doing isn't
1:07:52the in-house or is it is also outsource
1:07:54to to somebody but either way this game
1:07:58the what it looks like yeah it's got
1:08:01Nintendo's graphics has gotten tens IP
1:08:03i'm sure we'll play well but terms of
1:08:06what it is it's one of those you know
1:08:07tap the screen myers running all on his
1:08:10own you're tapping the screen to make a
1:08:11job and stuff like that which is fine as
1:08:13far as it goes but i find myself
1:08:16thinking about when I think about games
1:08:18that have stood out to me on iOS I don't
1:08:22you know super re-run is not is not in
1:08:27the top tier i think of something from a
1:08:29developer that really really seem to
1:08:31understand both i think the context of
1:08:34multiple gaming and the things that you
1:08:37know playing to its strength avoiding
1:08:39its weaknesses i think of things like
1:08:43you know out those adventure which but
1:08:46on the surface seemed so it's always not
1:08:47the same thing this thing just goes and
1:08:49you tap a button to make anything happen
1:08:50it's like a single tap gaming type
1:08:52experience and maybe it's because the
1:08:56internet doesn't have any IP that fit
1:08:58with that type of thing without those
1:09:00adventure is just so much stronger
1:09:02statement on understanding what's good
1:09:05about iOS gaming or something like what
1:09:09is wrong with either walking around on
1:09:11the thing invalid yeah monument valley
1:09:12that one taking the idea that one of one
1:09:15of the things that the mobile gaming
1:09:18houses that you're holding this little
1:09:20world in your hands if you just put a
1:09:21mostly static screen on there like it's
1:09:22a little diorama and it's like a little
1:09:23world of answering moving things around
1:09:25it's also different contexts where as
1:09:27Nintendo primary are running
1:09:29horizontally in the 2d worlds like
1:09:30that's the old context like that may be
1:09:33okay
1:09:33even the real in infinite runners take
1:09:36more advantage of mobile there are more
1:09:39sort of mobile native miss like so
1:09:41nintendo taking its existing properties
1:09:43and finding a way that you can play them
1:09:44by putting one finger on the screen
1:09:46periodically that's all well and good
1:09:48but where is the Nintendo equivalent of
1:09:51of those adventure or even you know the
1:09:54local year Walker what I just like I
1:09:57feel like there are they haven't
1:09:59mastered the platform yet and if they're
1:10:01ever going to make it really great iOS
1:10:04game and they have to start developing
1:10:06for it not as like a come-on for you to
1:10:10buy the real intendo games which is what
1:10:12these currently are at this point but
1:10:14you know getting their developers to
1:10:17really understand this platform and
1:10:19producing something that will last in
1:10:22our collective memory and be as well
1:10:23regarded as the best iOS games
1:10:26yeah agreed fair enough so let's try did
1:10:32not take this tutu- a place but apples
1:10:36made a curious choice with the new
1:10:39Sierra update for laptops for every
1:10:43laptop
1:10:44apparently the battery life meter has
1:10:48never been accurate we didn't realize
1:10:50this until people were dissatisfied with
1:10:54not reaching the claimed battery
1:10:56capacity
1:10:57here length on their brand new macbook
1:10:59pros but suddenly surely it's it's not
1:11:02because of that but suddenly it's turned
1:11:04out that the battery life meter is
1:11:07totally inaccurate and it's been removed
1:11:10hmm so I I don't know what's making this
1:11:14like mind my initial inclination is oh
1:11:18we're just trying to sweep under the rug
1:11:19the fact that these computers don't get
1:11:21the battery life we said they did my
1:11:23second thought of this is well your
1:11:26battery life is just a guess right i
1:11:29mean we don't see on an iOS device how
1:11:32much time remaining we have on our
1:11:34battery we see a percentage for sure but
1:11:36we don't see a time estimate and and so
1:11:41I I i want to land in a place where this
1:11:47is not enough arias is really the word
1:11:51i'm looking forward especially i can
1:11:52come up with that it's not a various and
1:11:54I I I really feel like the Apple
1:11:58community and maybe just geeks in
1:12:00general tend to land on the nefarious
1:12:02point of view a little too easily but
1:12:04golly I'm struggling to figure out a way
1:12:07where this is not just trying to sweep a
1:12:09different problem under the rug so I'm
1:12:12not gonna farias if you think about this
1:12:14is a sneaky evil thing that's always but
1:12:18but like I in encompassed in the word of
1:12:22a nefarious is a certain effectiveness
1:12:24that I think is not inherent in the
1:12:26solution in other words various a team
1:12:28to steal the jewels should end with you
1:12:30having the jewels if this is a nefarious
1:12:32to address concerns about battery life
1:12:35is not particularly nefarious because
1:12:37it's that it like I PR wise like I just
1:12:41safer for all 2016 let's just say Apple
1:12:44has not covered himself in glory in
1:12:45terms of product right
1:12:48the film and this move it
1:12:52I I don't see how there is a positive
1:12:55outcome for this for Apple regardless of
1:12:58the motivation say the motivation
1:12:59it has nothing to do with the new
1:13:00laptops like it just seems like a net
1:13:03negative no matter how I slice it and so
1:13:05if it was if it is a change meant to
1:13:08address a customer concerns
1:13:10no matter what that customer concern is
1:13:12I honestly don't see how getting rid of
1:13:16it will help now i understand it and
1:13:19kind of naive sort of just very sort of
1:13:23one-sided view of the world and that the
1:13:27battery meter is not accurate
1:13:29the holidays are coming we don't have
1:13:31time to fix it to stop people from
1:13:35seeing inaccurate information remove it
1:13:38with the idea that will fix it and put
1:13:40it back but we don't have time now but i
1:13:43don't think you can you would think
1:13:45about that solution for any period of
1:13:47time until you realize that doesn't
1:13:49really help like that but what makes
1:13:51things worse probably like if it's not
1:13:54working and we're going to fix it then
1:13:56fix it if you don't have time to fix it
1:13:57now fix it later if you don't want to
1:13:59fix it later because people are upset
1:14:00now issue a statement but removing it
1:14:03especially since that information is
1:14:05available elsewhere in the US and
1:14:07through third-party apps anyway and it
1:14:09just seems like not a good move PR wise
1:14:13again regardless of the motivation even
1:14:14motivations are entirely pure of like we
1:14:16realize there's a problem with the new
1:14:18macs and that meter and it's showing bed
1:14:21information right because it doesn't it
1:14:22doesn't solve a problem with customers
1:14:24have it might solve a problem apple has
1:14:26in terms of support requests and Apple
1:14:28might think it solves a perception
1:14:30problem although i really doubt it does
1:14:31but does it solve a customer problem i
1:14:34guess maybe the customer problem might
1:14:36be solving is like Marcos insistence on
1:14:38not having badges on his application to
1:14:40tell you about how many things you
1:14:41haven't done them to remove anxiety but
1:14:44it really depends because unlike
1:14:47notifications to tell you how many
1:14:48unread things you have in instapaper
1:14:50whatever if you hide the time remaining
1:14:54for someone who's used to constantly
1:14:56looking up to see the time remaining
1:14:57all you've done is replace one anxiety
1:14:59with another the new anxiety is I have
1:15:01know how much I i have no idea how much
1:15:02time I've ever made
1:15:03normally I know how much time I have
1:15:04remaining really doubt that it's looking
1:15:06at a number that's like a random guess
1:15:07not right that is it is an estimate
1:15:10based on current whatever like but it's
1:15:14not remove the anxiety because not as if
1:15:16when they glanced up there and don't see
1:15:17the time remaining they're gonna relax
1:15:18and say oh I guess I don't have to worry
1:15:20about anymore know they're gonna be like
1:15:21but what is the time
1:15:23getting launched activity monitor and
1:15:24check not not a wise decision apple i
1:15:29think and the best thing for them to do
1:15:32is if the number is misleading or
1:15:36inaccurate or problematic in some way
1:15:38make it better
1:15:40yeah this there are a number of of
1:15:43separate issues here and I think if we
1:15:46get we need to be careful to talk about
1:15:49them separately into not like you know
1:15:50let them bleed into each other where
1:15:52they don't need to because that's a
1:15:54quick way to just lose a discussion and
1:15:55and and get sidetracked
1:15:58so there's multiple problems here
1:16:00problem number one is the battery
1:16:03estimate meter what can be and sometimes
1:16:06is inaccurate but i have i've actually
1:16:10found it you know i've been using apple
1:16:13laptops for more than a decade now and i
1:16:16have found the battery meter to be a
1:16:19pretty good rough estimate
1:16:22it's not like it says you get two hours
1:16:24and you actually get 10 it's not off by
1:16:26that much
1:16:27it's you it usually gives you a pretty
1:16:30good estimate of the number of hours you
1:16:33will roughly get if you if you continue
1:16:35using the computer the way you using it
1:16:37right now or and the way you have been
1:16:39using it for the last few minutes so
1:16:41that's the bit that mental model that
1:16:42you just described
1:16:43I don't know if everyone else has the
1:16:45same mental not sure what you described
1:16:47is how most you know longtime mac users
1:16:49use it was just like it was just what
1:16:50you said you look up with that number
1:16:51and then what the number is trying to
1:16:53tell you because it's not an
1:16:54instantaneous measurement that I was
1:16:55trying to tell you is if you keep doing
1:16:57what you've been doing in the recent
1:16:58past we think this is what you're gonna
1:17:00get and you and I and most people use
1:17:03that number to say oh I better not keep
1:17:06doing whatever the hell I'm doing
1:17:06because my time like in other words we
1:17:09are never surprised when the number goes
1:17:10up right because we understand why goes
1:17:12up so it's because I quit that
1:17:14application or I stop that render
1:17:15whatever I was doing
1:17:16of course the numbers gonna pop I think
1:17:18regular people when they look at that
1:17:21number and it says X and then half an
1:17:24hour later they look at the number and
1:17:25it says X plus 50 minutes are perplexed
1:17:29and don't understand how that could be
1:17:30the case and start thinking that it's
1:17:32not right so i think the number is that
1:17:36I think that readout is it's not
1:17:39conveying the mental your mental model
1:17:41happens to match the way it works but i
1:17:43don't think the number itself on its own
1:17:45conveys that the view so i think the
1:17:47number is problematic
1:17:48it is well it's problematic as as it was
1:17:51displayed before as if its treated as
1:17:55fact
1:17:55so it's for example it's problematic to
1:17:57give to give minute level precision on
1:18:00that estimate because it is that
1:18:02accurate is not it isn't gonna tell you
1:18:04like oh your life is going to die in
1:18:06exactly 6 hours and 37 minutes like no
1:18:09that's that's not what's going to happen
1:18:10but the value that it had before in in
1:18:15giving you a rough estimate of what you
1:18:17have left it again like even if the
1:18:19granularity is number of hours you have
1:18:21left that is actually pretty accurate
1:18:24for a lot of people uses and so we have
1:18:28a number of problems combining here to
1:18:30make to make apple had to take action
1:18:32here one of them is I think pretty
1:18:35clearly the reviews have all been
1:18:36stating have all basically agreed and
1:18:39the customers not you not just crazy
1:18:41reviewers but actual customers have all
1:18:43kind of scene like you know I'm not
1:18:45really getting more than like five to
1:18:47seven hours of battery life on this 10
1:18:49hour battery life laptop that's that's
1:18:51been a pretty common thing people said i
1:18:54have my personal experience matches that
1:18:56pretty well
1:18:57the other problem is as I mentioned
1:18:58before modern laptops the the main ways
1:19:02they've gotten more efficient as Piper
1:19:03is by reducing the amount of power they
1:19:05use when they're not doing much and when
1:19:08they're when they're really doing a lot
1:19:09or the GPUs on whatever else the the top
1:19:12of that power range they can reach is
1:19:15actually not move very much and they've
1:19:17gotten smaller lighter by tricking the
1:19:18batteries by by assuming a bunch of idle
1:19:20power there are a bunch of idle time but
1:19:23again if you push them if you make them
1:19:25do anything they're still using as much
1:19:27higher powers they used to
1:19:28so basically as we keep making the
1:19:30advancements in making idle power lower
1:19:32and lower and lower but keeping active
1:19:34power kind of the same what we're seeing
1:19:37is a aim and increasing difference in
1:19:41real-world battery life depending on
1:19:43what you're doing so it used to be like
1:19:45you know it back in the olden days of
1:19:47like you know the the core duo and
1:19:49the pet and the g4 everything back in
1:19:51those early days when we had made all
1:19:53these advances in idle power reduction
1:19:55the difference in how much battery life
1:19:57your computer would get if you're
1:19:58pushing it hard for the future just
1:20:00browsing the web was a pretty small
1:20:02difference relatively speaking to do it
1:20:03today maybe if you were really gentle on
1:20:06it you might get like fifty percent or
1:20:0875% hundred percent more battery life
1:20:10whereas today if you're like using the
1:20:13cpu hard or if you're playing a game vs
1:20:16if you're browsing the web and doing
1:20:17nothing else in the background that
1:20:19difference could be the difference
1:20:20between 90 minutes and 11 hours of
1:20:23battery life it's so ridiculous but
1:20:25you're right it had those are real
1:20:27numbers like this actually happens like
1:20:28it's just surprising like the difference
1:20:30is vast now depending on what you're
1:20:32doing and so that factor has such as
1:20:37overtime made the battery meter less
1:20:40accurate so there is no because as what
1:20:44you do changes like if if you have just
1:20:47spent three hours browsing the web and
1:20:49safari with no pages that triggered
1:20:51WebGL then great you're all set
1:20:55but then if you go and and somebody
1:20:58sends you a message effect and the GPU
1:21:00turns on and something else tries to
1:21:02keep GPU or for some other reason than
1:21:04all and and then at the same time like a
1:21:06time machine backup starts and and
1:21:09photos decides to analyze some photos
1:21:11for you like then you could be your your
1:21:14estimate for the last three hours on the
1:21:16stuff was happening my told you have
1:21:17five more hours left
1:21:19but now all the sudden because your
1:21:21computer doing things that use way more
1:21:23power than B then what you're doing
1:21:24before you might only have one hour left
1:21:26that's why the effectively fixing it
1:21:28like the idea I got the numbers bad
1:21:29fixing fixing it doesn't mean just make
1:21:31it put a better number because there is
1:21:33no better number because you can't
1:21:34predict the future fixing it probably
1:21:36means changing it from something that
1:21:38tells you a supposed amount of time
1:21:39remaining to something that graphically
1:21:41displays memory like I like a burndown
1:21:45graph for usage over time like you have
1:21:47to
1:21:48you'd like to see your representation
1:21:49lets you know you were using energy at
1:21:52this rate here is your total energy that
1:21:54you have you were using at this rate the
1:21:56more recently you be using at this rate
1:21:58and therefore like here's the rest of
1:22:00the time
1:22:00like some kind of graph or something
1:22:02yeah some other representation that the
1:22:03probably doesn't fit in the menu bar
1:22:05maybe you can do it is a sparkline but
1:22:07then you click on to get a bigger thing
1:22:08because that's you know like you said
1:22:10the it with this with this chain with
1:22:13this increase in the difference between
1:22:15idol and active power is ever-increasing
1:22:17difference it becomes almost impossible
1:22:21to ever put a single number of its
1:22:22representative because the the
1:22:24variabilities too much suit by fixing it
1:22:26i mean give the people using the
1:22:29customer problem is I have to know how
1:22:32long I have left and should i do
1:22:34something differently to change that
1:22:35right and and also like people don't
1:22:38know what they should do differently
1:22:39right so you need to give them feedback
1:22:41did quitting that app helping our let me
1:22:44go look click the menu bar icon and see
1:22:46the graph and see like some line level
1:22:48out or something or not like that's
1:22:50that's the customer problem is i gotta
1:22:53know how long I have been fine if I need
1:22:55to stretch it if i need to you know get
1:22:57a little bit more time out of it i'm
1:22:59going to try a bunch of random crap
1:23:00hopefully the the energy saver menu will
1:23:03tell me like what chaps are using a lot
1:23:04of energy like that feature they had a
1:23:05mattress or whatever
1:23:07hopefully I'll take some action based on
1:23:08that and then have confirmation from
1:23:10this thing that tells me oh yes you've
1:23:11you've now change things so that looks
1:23:14like you're you're back on track and
1:23:16doing that with a single number that
1:23:18fluctuates up and down i think is not as
1:23:21useful as some other thing that gives a
1:23:23historic forward and backward
1:23:24perspective on things
1:23:26John only you would want to burn down
1:23:28chart for your battery power marketing
1:23:31know what that is
1:23:31nope not even though not at all alright
1:23:33spines in the parking lot
1:23:34ya know so like so basically i see the
1:23:40line of thinking that could lead Apple
1:23:43to think we should just get rid of this
1:23:44meter because it's not very accurate
1:23:46anymore but it has a lot of value and so
1:23:51to to completely get rid of it eat you
1:23:54because like if you look at the
1:23:55percentage all you know is where my
1:23:57battery is right now but on something
1:23:59that gets one and a half to 12 hours of
1:24:02battery life that percentage is not very
1:24:05useful you know like it's going to the
1:24:07graph in your head you have to be like
1:24:08alright looked at five minutes ago and
1:24:09it was this number and i looked at now
1:24:11is this
1:24:11number and so I make that the slope of
1:24:12that line like you're doing the graph in
1:24:14your head right and so II it is very
1:24:17very helpful and this is not just to
1:24:19keep things I I don't want to hear
1:24:20people saying regular people don't need
1:24:22the the estimate know anybody who uses a
1:24:24laptop on battery power and wanted to
1:24:26last a whole flight or a whole day or
1:24:28whole span often needs to know and I
1:24:31going to make it
1:24:32given what i'm doing like it is my
1:24:34battery enough like that is the problem
1:24:36of the modern age is my battery going to
1:24:39make it so that you know this is this is
1:24:43a real problem for a lot of people in a
1:24:44lot of situations so to have something
1:24:47that can indicate whether your battery's
1:24:49going to make it is very useful and
1:24:51while the time estimate is is it has
1:24:54never been perfect and as discussed is
1:24:56actually less perfect over time it is
1:24:59something and they replaced it with
1:25:02nothing that the percentage meter does
1:25:05not replace the need to note for you to
1:25:07know am I probably gonna make it or not
1:25:09it doesn't it is not good enough and
1:25:12it's different it's different with
1:25:13laptop first fund his phones are so easy
1:25:16to carry extra batteries for laptops
1:25:19really aren't you know that the whole
1:25:20USBC future that will eventually be here
1:25:23we can have a about Jackson laptop
1:25:25batteries for our laptops that's really
1:25:27only true for the 12-inch MacBook and
1:25:30only just barely because that has very
1:25:33low power draw its you know in in the in
1:25:36the realm of of big tablet power draws
1:25:38so like you can get a better back for
1:25:39those it's that small and outputs like
1:25:4215 watts and that's enough
1:25:44you're never going to get a battery pack
1:25:46that's going to be small and light and
1:25:49empower your 15-inch macbook pro for
1:25:51meaningful amount of time our or that
1:25:53can recharge it quickly so you can get
1:25:55back to using it like it's just too much
1:25:58power batteries are big and heavy
1:26:00that's not going to happen in a
1:26:01compelling package for a very long time
1:26:03if ever so it is very important for you
1:26:07to know when you're using your flagship
1:26:0915-inch professional-grade a laptop that
1:26:13has this nice big 75 one hour battery in
1:26:16it and that can possibly draw up 287
1:26:19wats a full load
1:26:21it's very nice to know whether you're
1:26:22going to make it without a charge or not
1:26:24to
1:26:24what you have to do you know at the end
1:26:26of the fighter day or whatever because
1:26:28if you if you mess up that estimate
1:26:31you're basically a lot like you're
1:26:33basically you're not gonna have a
1:26:33computer for a few hours because you're
1:26:36not gonna like you can't just plug in a
1:26:38little lipstick battery from amazon that
1:26:40was four dollars and charged up again
1:26:42like that it doesn't work that way to
1:26:43treat it like a big phone is not a good
1:26:45analogy
1:26:46it just doesn't work well there is one
1:26:48phone feature that you could use though
1:26:50like you think more fixes this thing
1:26:52running like a big phone maybe think of
1:26:54like what are you doing your iphone say
1:26:55your on your iPhone and you're on a
1:26:57cross-country flight and your you want
1:26:58to be doing stuff on your phone and you
1:27:00there's no time remaining on the iphone
1:27:02but you look at the percentage and you
1:27:04kind of know how long you're fun you're
1:27:05less and you're like it's not going to
1:27:06make it what would you do i plug it in
1:27:08and shoot the hostage but not yet plugin
1:27:13plugin i guess that is an option because
1:27:15I guess the fun of it but low power mode
1:27:17was thinking of the powerbook right so
1:27:19on the phone the phone first of the
1:27:21phone itself will go into low power mode
1:27:23but you can turn it on yourself manually
1:27:24at any time and you're hoping what that
1:27:26will do is like you don't know just
1:27:28switch and preferences or and I think
1:27:29it's him isn't in control center not
1:27:31forget low-power mode will you know you
1:27:35basically say go into like camera mode
1:27:37just trying to like not do stuff and and
1:27:41be more calm a low-power mode for mac OS
1:27:44but it's as simple as a switch would
1:27:47solve the customer problem better than
1:27:50the very geeky silly solution i was
1:27:53suggesting of like graphs and everything
1:27:55which would be totally cool and would
1:27:56convey the information but again the
1:27:58customer problem is like you said and I
1:27:59gonna make it
1:28:01and so in this respect reading like a
1:28:02phone having a low-power mode switch i
1:28:05think is one possible viable solution
1:28:08and maybe apples got that plan and maybe
1:28:10ditching this is you know an ill-advised
1:28:12transition where they get rid of this
1:28:15and replace it with low-power mode is
1:28:16and i'm hoping low-power mode doesn't
1:28:19already exist in mac OS and I just don't
1:28:20know that because i have reviewed last
1:28:21two versions but you guys can confirm
1:28:24slacker so and this is this is this
1:28:26leads to another problem to which is you
1:28:28know that the small laptops that the
1:28:30escape and 36 touch bar
1:28:32a-and the macbook one these all suffer
1:28:35from moderate battery life because
1:28:39they're so small and that's and that's
1:28:40generally part of the trade-off of
1:28:42getting a very very small laptop is
1:28:44usually better life isn't very good
1:28:45his battery too big and heavy so to get
1:28:47something very small you know you gotta
1:28:49take a small battery life that's ok on
1:28:52the bigger ones like the 15-inch you
1:28:55know typically you get pretty good
1:28:56battery life you know and it hasn't
1:28:59always been the case but you know
1:29:00generally speaking that's you know it's
1:29:01really pretty good
1:29:02however on the 15 inch as i mentioned in
1:29:05previous episodes there used to be an
1:29:06option to not get a discrete GPU and the
1:29:09base model that option is no longer
1:29:10present on the current line so every 15
1:29:13inch comes with a discrete GPU that is
1:29:15dynamically switch to so it has both the
1:29:17integrated GPU views almost no power and
1:29:19the discrete GPU the big 8 AMD ati
1:29:22whatever-it-is amd-1 that it switches to
1:29:24whenever it feels that it needs more
1:29:27graphic horsepower and this is automatic
1:29:29switching and there's an option in
1:29:31settings to lock on the discrete GPU so
1:29:35do not automatically switch almost no
1:29:38one should ever enable that option
1:29:39because the head that just locks on the
1:29:42very high-powered raw very hot external
1:29:44GPU however there is no option to only
1:29:48lock on and to only use the low-power
1:29:52integrated GPU that's the first thing
1:29:53low-power mode would do obviously it's
1:29:55right so so basically so and and there's
1:29:58a there's utility by Cody called
1:30:00graphics card status gfx card status
1:30:02that shows you which one is in use in
1:30:04any given time and if you get and I even
1:30:07I've been when I'm doing my testing i
1:30:09have it you can even show notifications
1:30:11when the discrete one turns on so you
1:30:14can kind of tell like why it turned on
1:30:16because of being a bit of what you just
1:30:17did and and it can tell you of course
1:30:20which apps are holding it on as well
1:30:21because it's held by a nap basis you can
1:30:24talk about it after misbehaving or if
1:30:27something's using it that you don't
1:30:28really think you need to be doing right
1:30:29now you can you turn it off to save
1:30:31battery life because the battery usage
1:30:33when discrete GPU is active is
1:30:36substantially higher and you get was
1:30:38substantially noticeably worse battery
1:30:40life when that high-power GPU is on
1:30:43however as I said there's no option to
1:30:45say whatever you do do not turn that GPU
1:30:48want and I i would love to know from
1:30:51people in the know with the engineering
1:30:54maybe a tipster is there a hardware
1:30:57reason is there some reason why there
1:31:00can't be an option that says only use
1:31:02the integrated GPU right now because
1:31:04that would make a huge difference in
1:31:07battery power like I I've heard various
1:31:09times that like you know sometimes it's
1:31:11required when if you have an external
1:31:13display plugged in because like the way
1:31:15the way to integrate and that's that
1:31:16would be understandable because most
1:31:17people when they using an external
1:31:19display are plugged into power and i'm
1:31:21not on a plane that's right there the
1:31:23imac and panera bread again right
1:31:25because something is power in the
1:31:26display so obviously someone should do
1:31:28that the right bringing external display
1:31:30with you on your flight and just put on
1:31:32the input on the train next to you right
1:31:34but anyway I would like to know why that
1:31:38option isn't there there might be a good
1:31:39reason but if there isn't a good reason
1:31:41that option needs to be there because we
1:31:44know that the GP the integrated GPU is
1:31:48good enough for a lot of things it is
1:31:51not a great GPU it is not a high-power
1:31:53GPU we have a different high-powered you
1:31:55for those needs
1:31:56but if I'm using laptop and I need to
1:31:58eat at every bit of power from it if I'm
1:32:00on some kind of long plane trip or
1:32:01something and you like this is low power
1:32:03mode rightly if you want your lap to go
1:32:05in low-power mode you have to make sure
1:32:06that discrete GPU never turns on and is
1:32:09currently literally no way to prevent
1:32:12that you can't like some utility like
1:32:14Cody graphics card status
1:32:16it was an older computers it would it
1:32:19would be able to actually block the
1:32:20switching and lock it on integrated only
1:32:22but on the more modern max that doesn't
1:32:25happen anymore it can try but then what
1:32:27happens is the discrete one turns on
1:32:28anyway so it's whatever it isn't
1:32:31however it works isn't it seemingly
1:32:32isn't able to override the system
1:32:33behavior now I would love to have that
1:32:36option be there
1:32:37we also know like you know last in the
1:32:39last generation they had the animation
1:32:42they had the option without to get a
1:32:4315-4 that getting a discrete GPU at all
1:32:45if that option key and I've heard from
1:32:47various people that the current skylake
1:32:50cpu generation from Intel that the GPUs
1:32:53are very good and that would be a
1:32:55plausible reason why Apple wouldn't
1:32:56for that option that basically they're
1:32:58too slow to offer that as like a good
1:33:00computer but i would love to the option
1:33:03to opt into that sometimes when I really
1:33:04need the battery power so that would be
1:33:07great
1:33:07Apple wants to wants to address its
1:33:10battery issues with the 15-inch macbook
1:33:11pro the smaller ones they have different
1:33:13issues they have the most explicit
1:33:15things are really small batteries
1:33:16because that's how so that's also than
1:33:18light but the 15-inch one of the biggest
1:33:20issues is that GPU switching and it if I
1:33:24have if i have a way to disable that
1:33:25this laptop will last a lot longer i'll
1:33:28put a link in the show notes you are
1:33:30acting as a review of the touch bar
1:33:32laptop so that in their battery testers
1:33:35they're sort of light the Wi-Fi you know
1:33:37web browsing battery test and they did a
1:33:40test with the discrete GPU on and one
1:33:42with it off and the one with it off they
1:33:44got 15 hours of battery life this is out
1:33:46of the 2016 15 inch macbook pro and I
1:33:49with a discrete keep you on seven hours
1:33:51so I mean there's still light usage 27
1:33:53hours still pretty good but they're just
1:33:55web browsing but that's that's a 2x
1:33:57difference doing the exact same activity
1:33:59you know the only difference is the
1:34:01discrete GPU is on or off so a low-power
1:34:03mode that I'm not that's the game we
1:34:05like to turn off the discrete GPU and
1:34:07accept that you're you know you're not
1:34:08completely games your graphics
1:34:09performance with terrible but think of
1:34:10all the other things you can do marcos
1:34:12favorite thing you know photos analyzing
1:34:13his pictures in the background time
1:34:16machine backups like this so everything
1:34:18that the phone doesnt low-power mode
1:34:19stops as many optional background
1:34:21activity type things that can possibly
1:34:23stop you know you know just pause them
1:34:26or delays them over
1:34:27just don't do that stuff clock down the
1:34:29processor do like whatever you have to
1:34:31do too because that's it you know when
1:34:33you go into low power mode where they're
1:34:35automatically because you're your
1:34:36battery is getting low which would be a
1:34:37good idea or just you know at the
1:34:39beginning of your flight do it's like
1:34:41xcode will run fine in low-power mode
1:34:43like your compiles might take longer but
1:34:45the typing part will be fine
1:34:47like it's not you don't you're not doing
1:34:48anything that graphically intensive
1:34:49ended its not they have no GPU there is
1:34:52a Wimpy crappy GPU built into the you
1:34:54know you've integrated GPU is not as may
1:34:57not be as good as it was in the past but
1:35:00it will get you by and you know it the
1:35:03the another thing from the chalice is a
1:35:05link to this big on an explanation of
1:35:07how Mac developers can make their
1:35:10applications better behaved because
1:35:12there are many things that system
1:35:14frameworks and your own application
1:35:15might do to unknown eternal and discrete
1:35:18GPUs honest if there's some like call
1:35:20that you make this is hey I would like
1:35:21to turn the screw GPU and the point is
1:35:22automatically automatically turns an
1:35:24online needs it and it doesn't use and
1:35:27what doesn't
1:35:27but apparently that's an opt-in type of
1:35:30thing and if you don't opt into it your
1:35:31application not article automatically
1:35:33switch between integrated indiscreet the
1:35:34default is just use discrete all the
1:35:36time if you do any of these sort of
1:35:39activities that think they might need it
1:35:40at some point in your application so
1:35:42there could be a software factor here
1:35:45where people just need to play update
1:35:47their applications to be nicer but
1:35:48that's that's why wouldn't look for that
1:35:50to save anyone's bacon unless there's
1:35:52some specific application that you're
1:35:53using all the time it's going to benefit
1:35:55from this because apples been preaching
1:35:56this for years and years and years about
1:35:58how to make your applications
1:35:59energy-efficient and they have a lot of
1:36:01great tools a lot of great ideas but the
1:36:03bottom line is over the past five to ten
1:36:06years it seems like application
1:36:08developers have not prioritized the
1:36:10energy efficiency athlete of their
1:36:12application very highly like they'll
1:36:14spend more time on performance and bugs
1:36:16and features rightly so probably an
1:36:19energy-efficiency Apple itself has
1:36:21probably been one of the best companies
1:36:23in terms of making your application uses
1:36:24less power just look at how much power
1:36:26so far users compared to chrome to see
1:36:29how seriously they take this so apples
1:36:31highly motivated do it because they make
1:36:32the hardware other vendors seem to be
1:36:35less inclined to do that and that leads
1:36:38to the other solution which we've talked
1:36:40about so many times in the past to this
1:36:42problem you know we got low power mode
1:36:44you've got improving the way that people
1:36:46see the information you've also got
1:36:48sorry for the umpteenth time make the
1:36:51laptop two millimeters thick and put my
1:36:53battery in it because if you make the
1:36:55battery life good enough that people
1:36:57like get through the day ish or it seems
1:37:00about the same or better than the
1:37:02previous one
1:37:03then there is way way less spreading
1:37:05about all we need a new way to present
1:37:07this information to the user that's
1:37:09accurate of blood like it just stops
1:37:11being a concerned the same way that
1:37:13battery life I iPads mostly stopped
1:37:16being concerned I'm for the first one
1:37:19but the fact
1:37:19it was ten hours like oh well you know
1:37:22from from ipad ipad when it fluctuates
1:37:25from like i used to get 10 in the
1:37:26previous one and I get a tan this one or
1:37:28nine or eleven but it's long enough that
1:37:31it's not a big deal right
1:37:33whereas it seems like the 15 inch
1:37:34laptops in particular have been existing
1:37:37on the border where it's like not enough
1:37:41to get you through a whole day of hard
1:37:43work may be enough to get you through a
1:37:45cross-country flight of medium work and
1:37:48so fluctuations like this especially
1:37:49when they can be a 2x range between
1:37:51discrete and integrated UV uses it's
1:37:54well within the you know discomfort
1:37:57range so if you could add an hour or two
1:37:59so that basically that it seems like for
1:38:01the most part in regular usage your 2016
1:38:0415 inch macbook pro it's about the same
1:38:07battery life as you 2015 then all of a
1:38:10sudden all these concerns that we were
1:38:12talking about become much less sergeant
1:38:15in exchange for you having a thicker
1:38:17laptops I don't know apples were
1:38:18planning on pursuing that but it's not
1:38:21like they don't have the option they do
1:38:22make the hardware
1:38:24yeah fair enough now Marco your post
1:38:28that you you put up about this I have to
1:38:30ask
1:38:31I feel like you're trying to give a
1:38:32subliminal message here but I just can't
1:38:34put my finger on what is the woman when
1:38:36the picture is like the judge giant it's
1:38:38like bigger than the text
1:38:40yeah it did there's a little bit of
1:38:41inception going on here i just have to
1:38:43congratulate you because at first I
1:38:45didn't understand where you're going
1:38:47with this
1:38:48how and it took a well known for like I
1:38:50looked at the first picture and I was
1:38:51like okay and then i would like that was
1:38:53really their picture of a cow and right
1:38:55now seriously i did not understand
1:38:56driving from the lakers I think the
1:38:58third picture then I was like oh and
1:38:59then that my favorite was figuring out
1:39:01what the relevance of the last picture
1:39:02was they said no that was well done so I
1:39:07I are you all kidding aside you this
1:39:11that your post anyway seems to be a
1:39:14pretty clear statement that you think
1:39:15that this is a poor choice
1:39:18how would you phrase it now like what
1:39:21what do you think about this is this is
1:39:24this a good idea is a bad idea
1:39:26so again there are multiple issues here
1:39:29right so one of the issues is is this
1:39:32better
1:39:33you're accurate a second issue is is it
1:39:36worth moving it because it does serve a
1:39:39lot of useful purposes for people right
1:39:41and and to remove it with no replacement
1:39:45that can serve those purposes of like
1:39:47basically gauging whether you're going
1:39:49to make it or not that is that is not
1:39:52great right and another issue is are
1:39:56they doing this in response to criticism
1:39:58that the battery life of these machines
1:39:59is not great so I think the answer to
1:40:03question number one of like is a better
1:40:05meter accurate
1:40:06the answer is well sometimes but I think
1:40:11it's accurate often enough to be useful
1:40:13and I wouldn't necessarily move it for
1:40:15that I might reduce its precision and
1:40:17drop it down to just hours and not show
1:40:19minutes but that's just me
1:40:21I don't work for Apple maybe there's a
1:40:22reason okay question number two of like
1:40:25is it is a good idea to make this
1:40:27removal with nothing that can replace it
1:40:29and I'd say no is it
1:40:32fortunately those of us who care we can
1:40:35install their party utilities or just
1:40:37looking activity monitor because it's
1:40:38like I i set menus has it activity
1:40:40monitor has a coconut battery has it
1:40:42because all these things are clearing
1:40:43the low the low-level io kit framework
1:40:45and I ok it's giving the same estimate
1:40:48so not only can I can third-party apps
1:40:49provide their own estimates but they're
1:40:51using the same data source i think in
1:40:53most cases they're using the same data
1:40:55source that would that is the thing that
1:40:57was driving that menu bar so it's not
1:40:58like you getting a different estimate
1:41:00you're getting the same underlying
1:41:01framework is reporting these numbers
1:41:02just in a different UI so that's cool i
1:41:05personally use istat menus for that i
1:41:07like is that means quite a bit so go
1:41:09check that out
1:41:10so you know basically question number
1:41:12one Apple Apple had a navy ok answer for
1:41:14that one question number two removing it
1:41:16without having any replacement for this
1:41:18function at the I don't think Apple has
1:41:20an answer for that
1:41:21and question number 3 like is this
1:41:22actually just are in response to try to
1:41:26maybe cover up the battery problem a
1:41:29little bit and I don't think Apple have
1:41:32a good response to that either at least
1:41:35one that would be believable so
1:41:37basically to me
1:41:39this reads poorly that this reads like a
1:41:44PR band-aid
1:41:46on what is legitimate product
1:41:48shortcomings that I hope Apple addresses
1:41:50and not a successful band aid not even
1:41:52worried vandy probably something it's
1:41:54not going to various if it's a clever
1:41:56way to keep people quiet this this will
1:41:58do the out have the opposite effect
1:41:59right so now the the interesting
1:42:02footnote to this is that the early
1:42:04reports of this OS update our than
1:42:07actually improves battery life
1:42:09noticeably of course of course making
1:42:13this making this more complicated and
1:42:15kind of hilarious
1:42:17so apparently there were some issues
1:42:20with with the GPU management and you
1:42:24don't say and and apparently there is
1:42:28some of these issue has some issues have
1:42:30been fixed in the dot to release i
1:42:33personally I'm seeing with my now
1:42:35illicit tools to show me a battery
1:42:37estimate I'm now seeing estimates of
1:42:41more like 12 hours under my idol users
1:42:44and I haven't I don't have only had this
1:42:45update installed now for a few hours so
1:42:47I really can't give a real report yet
1:42:50but macrumors already has a thing about
1:42:52saying like they're hearing for people
1:42:53to like it seems like this might be a
1:42:55real thing that this update actually
1:42:57does improve battery life noticeably on
1:43:00this on this computer at least at idle
1:43:02i'm guessing how much of this is the end
1:43:04of your first run experience jobs you
1:43:07talking about the ending with the photo
1:43:09library stuff spotlight photo library
1:43:11all the crap that you know on a fresh
1:43:13Mac that's newly signed into your iCloud
1:43:15and then you know doing all the stuff
1:43:17that happens after you doing install and
1:43:19put all your apps on and you're
1:43:20mentioning how like was taking forever
1:43:22her for photos to be done doing whatever
1:43:24the hell was doing maybe it's done now
1:43:25nowhere close
1:43:27no photos I'm honestly thinking about
1:43:29just leaving for iCloud photo library
1:43:32and just moving on because the at the
1:43:35the mac app I first of all I I think I
1:43:40don't want to make this a complaint
1:43:41about Apple because i actually have been
1:43:42very positive episode so far for the
1:43:44most part however the the photos for mac
1:43:47app I I it has so much potential and i
1:43:53would say almost all of the potential is
1:43:56unrealized that's the nicest way I can
1:43:58put it
1:43:59well done so and i do think that the the
1:44:03decision that Apple did the summer to to
1:44:06have their their their photo object
1:44:10recognition basically be done on device
1:44:13and then to not sink that across devices
1:44:15so basically every device you setup has
1:44:17to do its own image and object
1:44:19recognition and face recognition in the
1:44:21Photos app i think that that was a
1:44:24mistake it's not really a decision based
1:44:26on the the lot talk show live where this
1:44:28very issue was brought over was so clear
1:44:30from i think was Craig answering the
1:44:31question that the only reason that's the
1:44:33case is because they didn't have time to
1:44:34do the better solution
1:44:35well like that's a decision that it was
1:44:38their decision to ship it
1:44:39yeah i know but like what I think it was
1:44:40the right decision to ship it instead of
1:44:42waiting until they got that like I think
1:44:43they made the right call they're like
1:44:45you either delay until you get this
1:44:46solution for me so those three options
1:44:49are you know the others like doing like
1:44:51Google doesn't all server-side apples on
1:44:52to the privacy don't ship it or ship it
1:44:55with the less efficient thing and I
1:44:57think they pick the right option is that
1:44:58shame it's a shame that it didn't have
1:45:00it worked out
1:45:01it's a shame on you for your battery and
1:45:03it has to do this and everything on your
1:45:04max but definitely I wouldn't wait a
1:45:07lecture year for this application
1:45:09well that well but you were you weren't
1:45:12waiting for the application you were
1:45:13only waiting for the the search the
1:45:15object search
1:45:16yeah I I appreciate the object search
1:45:18enough that I'm willing to I mean
1:45:20they're great i don't have laptops right
1:45:22but I'm totally i will pay the price for
1:45:24and I minded the same thing by the way
1:45:26the same like sir when is this ever
1:45:27going to finish and is there a way I can
1:45:29make it go and let me leave my computer
1:45:31on and said not to go to sleep I did all
1:45:32the same things you did so I had all the
1:45:34same frustrations and yet still I would
1:45:36say that the benefit i get from being
1:45:38able to type something in and find
1:45:39photos is worth it to me so I've had
1:45:42I've had this laptop now for I mean this
1:45:44one this one I've had for over a week
1:45:46and it is less than halfway done
1:45:51scanning my photo library isn't making
1:45:53any progress that's the key mine for a
1:45:55long time didn't look like it was making
1:45:56any progress
1:45:57it's making very slow progress so I i'm
1:46:00keeping tractors I guess screenshot the
1:46:02the people tab or shows the actual
1:46:04numbers because you can memorize it into
1:46:05the graph in your head right right
1:46:07exactly right there you go
1:46:10and.and like it I don't know how to make
1:46:12it go but anyway it doesn't it seems the
1:46:17that the the photo indexing is not
1:46:19mostly a battery problem because when
1:46:22it's on battery it doesn't seem to do it
1:46:24it seems to be smart about that when you
1:46:26plug it in the photos agent will require
1:46:29the discrete GPU and will start to
1:46:31invade and the next thing I so I believe
1:46:33it's gpu-based for this GPU assisted
1:46:35which is nice
1:46:36that's one of the things by the way at
1:46:37WWDC that they emphasize for years and
1:46:39years being having all sorts of power
1:46:42assertions and being aware of the
1:46:43context that you're in and if you're on
1:46:45battery life like that's that's what
1:46:46they want to happen instead of having
1:46:47like a big low-power mode button or
1:46:49anything like that they just want
1:46:50applications to be smart and understand
1:46:52what the deal isn't you know behave like
1:46:53apples things that go you super low
1:46:55priority I oh and don't even run this at
1:46:57all if you're on battery and do all they
1:46:59have a B is for all this stuff but hey
1:47:01like I said it slow down on developers
1:47:03part of us and be even though they have
1:47:05all that stuff on a platform like iOS it
1:47:07is still both useful and I think
1:47:09recommended to have a low-power mode
1:47:11that comes on automatically when you
1:47:12really low and that the user can put on
1:47:14any time they want because that is that
1:47:16is the right granularity I feel like one
1:47:18switch somewhere easily accessible with
1:47:20some visual indication it's on like the
1:47:22yellow battery meter whatever iOS shows
1:47:24i still think that feature they should
1:47:27totally identical I i agree and and on
1:47:30iOS like I actually do an overcast I i
1:47:34have like whenever i have any kind of
1:47:36like sink activity the choice that I
1:47:39have a lot of choices about like how
1:47:41much do i wait and coalesce all these
1:47:43think updates before actually make a
1:47:44network request to my server and you
1:47:46know Angeles into a show like how often
1:47:48do I report to the server what time
1:47:50stamp you've listened up to so that it
1:47:52can sink to your other devices reliably
1:47:54like I have all sorts of like you know
1:47:56cole s delays and and granularity delays
1:47:59things like that and i run them all
1:48:01through a function that applies
1:48:03multipliers based on the current power
1:48:06state whether you're on Wi-Fi or
1:48:08cellular whether your batteries above
1:48:09certain thresholds and whether low-power
1:48:11mode is activated so when low power mode
1:48:13activated i believe i just multiply
1:48:14everything by like four or something
1:48:15which is like make everything really
1:48:17spaced out and so again I actually
1:48:19dynamically adjust all of those you know
1:48:21based on all the different factors of
1:48:22like you know basically
1:48:24how much power do you have to spare and
1:48:25how much power will this take right now
1:48:27like you're on Wi-Fi i guess i do things
1:48:29more often if you're on Tyler I don't if
1:48:31you know so all these I always different
1:48:33multipliers in there and it really helps
1:48:35a lot to control myself better usage but
1:48:37i did all that because it matters on iOS
1:48:40it matters a lot and it has mattered
1:48:42since the beginning of iOS on the mac
1:48:44for so long I think developers weren't
1:48:47needed to do really much of that because
1:48:49it didn't really matter like how much
1:48:51did with that actually affect people's
1:48:52battery lies in the past but you know as
1:48:54we move towards this now massive Delta
1:48:57between when the process is active and
1:48:59went to idle this madness now massive
1:49:02Delta of battery life now it matters a
1:49:04lot more and so I hope Mac developers
1:49:08are conscientious of this as many many
1:49:11developers use 15-inch macbook pros
1:49:13spoke I i hope that they are
1:49:15conscientious to this and and will it
1:49:17will actively work to reduce their
1:49:19energy use now that the max that people
1:49:22actually wearing their software on
1:49:23basically now it matters a lot more
1:49:26weather apps are responsible or not
1:49:28because again before it didn't matter
1:49:29much at all and now it matters a lot
1:49:32and as time goes on it's very clear that
1:49:35you know we've been honest on this path
1:49:37for a while now that we are going to
1:49:40continue to make idle power savings and
1:49:44continue to not really lower the ceiling
1:49:46very much of maximum power so this issue
1:49:49is only going to get worse this Delta is
1:49:51only going to get larger over time as
1:49:53you make these further advancements in
1:49:55power efficiency so it will only become
1:49:58more important over time for everyone to
1:50:01really optimize their powers when your
1:50:02battery and so I hope people do i hope
1:50:05the the mac developer ecosystem is
1:50:07healthy enough that people have the
1:50:10motivation and resources to update their
1:50:12apps that much I i hope that they are
1:50:14conscious enough to do it and i look
1:50:17forward to seeing if they do not like
1:50:19the future is desktop computers that
1:50:21don't you think
1:50:22God thanks 143 sponsors this week
1:50:26betterment hover and square space and we
1:50:28will see you next week
1:50:31now the show is over they didn't even
1:50:36mean to be in because it was accidental
1:50:39death was accidental
1:50:43John's research Marco and Casey would
1:50:47help
1:50:48because it was accidentally was
1:50:51accidental and you can find the show
1:50:55know today p dot and its twitter follow
1:51:03them
1:51:03[Music]
1:51:04yes byl ISS that's Casey list and a
1:51:09co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our see us
1:51:18syracuse it
1:51:30have you been watching anymore Grand
1:51:36Tour kids know everyone says that sucks
1:51:39so I just decided to
1:51:40you're the only one left watching AZ
1:51:41yeah it kind of seems like based on my
1:51:45case you basically what you wrote and
1:51:47what I see if you have people say as
1:51:48well I really does seem like i got the
1:51:52best of all worlds by watching episode 1
1:51:54then stopping I don't know if that's
1:51:57entirely true i stand by Skip episode 2
1:52:00but or come back to it well after the
1:52:03fact I i do still like the show but man
1:52:09I don't love it like I used to
1:52:10well I mean admittedly that was a
1:52:12different show if you want to be
1:52:13authentic about it you know what I'm
1:52:14driving at
1:52:15I'm curious to see what this week brings
1:52:18not having seen all of the the ones past
1:52:21episode 17 horrible even just seeing
1:52:24episode one even though i enjoyed it i
1:52:26could see this path of you know we
1:52:29talked about here this path of like you
1:52:30know this seems like they're pushing a
1:52:32little hard on these certain areas that
1:52:33don't work and anything you know
1:52:35honestly even in the last couple seasons
1:52:38of the bbctopgear show with them on it
1:52:40they know that version of it you could
1:52:43tell it was starting to go in some
1:52:45directions that work fringe worthy and
1:52:47it was starting to lose is some of the
1:52:50best for getting a little more contrived
1:52:51and it was starting to lose some of its
1:52:54charm in in a lot of it as it got like
1:52:57seemingly more contrived and seeming
1:52:59less just kind of like raw I guess
1:53:03well that's the thing is that you know
1:53:06I'm pretty good at being able to watch
1:53:08you know a filmer or TV show and and not
1:53:11pick apart
1:53:12how was made or what was real and what
1:53:15wasn't
1:53:16but we're in top gear i could watch most
1:53:21of them and feel like it was a contrived
1:53:25situation that they just let play out
1:53:27right you know let's race to Verbier and
1:53:29see what happens and yes there are
1:53:31probably more efficient ways to go then
1:53:33I forget how that one went but like bus
1:53:35to train to plane to train to bus to
1:53:38running etc there's probably a more
1:53:40efficient way but that
1:53:42take around the same amount of time it
1:53:44takes Jeremy to drive it so let's set it
1:53:46up so that it should be interesting and
1:53:48then let it play out
1:53:49and so there's a lot of that was
1:53:52probably staged and deliberate and a lot
1:53:54and I think a lot of it that wasn't
1:53:55whereas in Grand Tour
1:53:57it seems like its way heavy on staging
1:54:02everything to the point that it's
1:54:03obvious and as we discussed i think last
1:54:06time I think the three hosts have
1:54:08forgotten that they're not actors which
1:54:10is troubling and so the second episode
1:54:13was was very self-indulgent and very
1:54:15much time trying to act the third
1:54:17episode actually thought was pretty good
1:54:18I I like that one and then this last
1:54:21episode some was good some was not and
1:54:24so I don't know i'm curious to see where
1:54:27this goes i think if i understand it
1:54:30right this is a like 12-episode run I
1:54:32thought although i might be wrong about
1:54:34me that maybe there's only a couple more
1:54:36either way i'm curious to see how this
1:54:39plays out now John you also have not
1:54:40been watching is that correct that's
1:54:42mostly just because i haven't had time
1:54:43to watch anything like I have been
1:54:47sitting there with my ipad which is
1:54:48where I usually watch this thing and
1:54:49thinking I should catch a few minutes
1:54:51i'm almost watched it's not like i'm i'm
1:54:53against ever watching it again but i
1:54:56will probably be leaning pretty heavily
1:54:58on the skip button to get to the part
1:54:59that has to do with cars but yeah which
1:55:03man you're gonna go to be doing a lot of
1:55:05skipping skipping and maybe or maybe
1:55:07I'll just have it on the background when
1:55:08I'm you know doing something else I
1:55:10don't know
1:55:11yeah yeah the stuff you're never really
1:55:13used to be a second-screen kind of show
1:55:15for me or are ya i never used to really
1:55:17like what it look at twitter while I was
1:55:19watching top gear and and I caught
1:55:21myself barely paying attention during I
1:55:23don't like the second or maybe fourth
1:55:25episode it's okay though it's okay now
1:55:29Marco in a semi-related note is this
1:55:31your first winter with the tussle yeah
1:55:33yeah yeah I got it like in March or
1:55:34April soon
1:55:35yeah anything interesting come of that
1:55:37well we we haven't had any snow yet
1:55:39really like it snowed for like five
1:55:41minutes 19 that was it so it we haven't
1:55:43really had winter weather to deal with
1:55:45you have to change tires
1:55:46i I'm not planning on doing it this year
1:55:49I will see how it works I've all seasons
1:55:51now with the m5 I I had you know
1:55:53basically like flat balls of rubber on
1:55:56there for the summer times i think that
1:55:58like its stock tires were like comically
1:56:01ineffective in any kind of slippery or
1:56:02cold weather so I i used winter tires
1:56:05you know seasonally for that because I
1:56:07kind of had to make it useful this you
1:56:12know that the test was all wheel drive
1:56:13as i mentioned it when i did the test
1:56:15drive which was last February's are
1:56:17really cold day with a whole bunch of
1:56:19like you know mud and crap and graph all
1:56:21over the roads i was blown away by how
1:56:23good the other drive system was I know
1:56:26that battery range is going to be less
1:56:29in the winter because a combination of
1:56:31just batteries being less effective at
1:56:34very cold temperatures and also using
1:56:37the heaters will reduce the rains a lot
1:56:39so I expect that and that's you know I
1:56:43knew that going in
1:56:44that's fine we'll see how it goes in
1:56:45practice but i'm not concerned really
1:56:47i'm looking forward to the
1:56:49all-wheel-drive i'm looking forward to
1:56:50seeing how it performs in horrible
1:56:55conditions and yeah that's it
1:56:58I i had to start my snowblower recently
1:57:01which was interesting
1:57:03did you end up with a gas one or an
1:57:04electric one I don't recall i ended up
1:57:06with a gas one it was delivered about a
1:57:09day after the last snow of last season
1:57:12naturally so it was so the guy who
1:57:15delivered it started up for me to show
1:57:17me the kind of how to do it and then put
1:57:20in the garage and wait for snow which
1:57:23never came so at the end of the season
1:57:24very people who knew about these who
1:57:27knew about such things because I've
1:57:29never owned a gas-powered a lot of
1:57:31plants of any sort so I had no idea how
1:57:34to take care of them so i asked some
1:57:35friends and did some research on the
1:57:37internet and ask the company who made it
1:57:38like a stone did their support thing and
1:57:40and basically they recommended things
1:57:42that they said was like you know to
1:57:44basically drain the engine like to run
1:57:46dry so i had to start it up once like in
1:57:50April to do this to just run a drive
1:57:53from a little bit of gas they deliver it
1:57:54with took me a very long time to figure
1:57:56how to start about even though it has
1:57:57electric start delightful it is later
1:58:00Tesla's done to you don't even know how
1:58:02to start an internal combustion engine
1:58:03more exactly and it has like you know
1:58:06like the joke squishy thing and there's
1:58:10all sorts of stuff on there like I don't
1:58:11have to do this let's take the squishy
1:58:14thing as a technical term for the yeah
1:58:15and and and and then I was like april
1:58:19and i put it away else are and so just
1:58:21like two weeks ago or last week I had to
1:58:23finally take it out again because
1:58:25everyone says you could you could like
1:58:27start it up make sure it starts you know
1:58:28gas before the big snow storm which ok
1:58:30that makes sense
1:58:31I I never do that I know yours totally
1:58:33know you're supposed to in there right
1:58:35I just I I thought about that earlier
1:58:37like at the same time you're probably
1:58:38thinking about it I had that same
1:58:39thought I said you know what I've never
1:58:41done that before and I'm problem i can
1:58:43do it again yet so so you know I put gas
1:58:46and of course of course because a I me
1:58:49and and be I don't want to deal with it
1:58:52i'm using like the the expensive like
1:58:54special gas that comes in like broke
1:58:57spray sized cans that has the premix
1:58:59like treatments and everything so it's
1:59:01like optimized for the this engine so
1:59:03basically i want to use any kind of like
1:59:05you know preserver and it's stable and
1:59:07you could order it by mail for some
1:59:09reason I don't know how that's legal but
1:59:12you can do it anyway so i am putting a
1:59:17little bit of my fancy gas and i wish i
1:59:21was video recording myself trying to
1:59:24start this up again because of course I
1:59:25completely forgot the procedure and also
1:59:28of course i was too lazy to go find
1:59:30instruction book in case he wasn't there
1:59:32to read it for you
1:59:33exactly exactly I did eventually get ok
1:59:36she would have needed because you're
1:59:37like a real person who's operated gasps
1:59:38things before but I have no choice i'm
1:59:40not one of those people was it was it
1:59:42really any more complicated than you
1:59:44know flipping switch pumping a few
1:59:46things and hitting the starter and maybe
1:59:48moving to choke lever was there really
1:59:50more to it was am I not grasping the
1:59:52full complexity of this i think that
1:59:54ended up being rice ok so somehow i got
1:59:57it started eventually i pushed a bunch
1:59:59of things and turn about
1:59:59of things and turn about
2:00:00things and twisted a bunch of things and
2:00:01pulled some things and eventually it
2:00:02worked and then eventually likewise a
2:00:04sputtering so much at all i got turned
2:00:06this thing from start to go and so yeah
2:00:09so it was i wish i wish you were there
2:00:12to laugh at me during this process i
2:00:14wish i was there like a friendly
2:00:16neighbor to come over to put you out of
2:00:18your misery
2:00:18maybe you're right that I could have
2:00:20electrical starter really dampens the
2:00:23the comedy effect because if it had a
2:00:25pull start that would be more fun to
2:00:27watch you do well I couldn't get the
2:00:29truck to work i eventually but
2:00:31eventually pulled it and it started up
2:00:34upon pulling it it with such ease and I
2:00:38don't know if that's because it's new or
2:00:39because maybe the electric start like
2:00:41assisted it upon pulling because when i
2:00:44was trying that they'll start like
2:00:45there's a button next to the plug was in
2:00:46its unlabeled and i plug it in and push
2:00:49in just like nothing happened no
2:00:50response at all so i don't know if the
2:00:52if the electric starts broken or if I
2:00:54just I i need to read the manual but
2:00:56story of your life but I didn't pull
2:00:59starting it and it was super easy i was
2:01:01picturing like it we see my life
2:01:03triumphantly old lawnmower and they're
2:01:05like the pulling with all their bodily
2:01:08might and now it's like brand-new and
2:01:10they have like you know it it modern
2:01:14things are way easier to pull start than
2:01:15they used to be first and second of all
2:01:17things brand-new of course better pull
2:01:18it better be firing before you can get
2:01:20through the first pole it yet loving I i
2:01:22had to pull 12 hours ago but now it's
2:01:24going like ok I i did eventually figure
2:01:28this out it was comical I i do wish you
2:01:30guys were there because you would have
2:01:32had a ball making fun of me and I i do
2:01:34wish it was on video but unfortunately
2:01:36was not planning ahead for fun making
2:01:38fun of me when for when I this will be
2:01:41the year that my snowblower my
2:01:43snowblower that's what 16 years old or
2:01:45whatever that I do zero maintenance on
2:01:47that should have died like a decade ago
2:01:49this will be the year that is all those
2:01:50your macro now it's older than my mac
2:01:52pro and I take less good care of it and
2:01:55every year I think this is this is going
2:01:56to be the year this thing doesn't start
2:01:58in every year it's like nope still going
2:02:00but will say yeah and I always wait
2:02:02until like this four feet of snow in
2:02:05front of my garage
2:02:06that's when I that's when I say well I
2:02:08wonderful things going to start this
2:02:09year whatever I don't start ahead
2:02:11time I don't like I do the only
2:02:13preparation i do is they usually make
2:02:14sure i have fuel for it i do that
2:02:16because you can't really get out get
2:02:18fuel in this four feet of snow
2:02:19you can have fancy gets delivered yeah
2:02:22this is not fancy gasps this is the
2:02:23opposite whatever that is is this is it
2:02:26one of the main reasons i went with
2:02:27fancy gasps besides that I'm you know I
2:02:29didn't want to deal with like
2:02:30stabilizers in the winter and the summer
2:02:32and also i don't think i'm gonna really
2:02:34use a lot of gas in this so I you know I
2:02:37think it's gonna matter really but if
2:02:38you're gonna run it dry anyway before
2:02:40you put it away like yeah whatever i
2:02:42wanted to be doubly sure anyway uh huh
2:02:44but I was also like one of the reasons
2:02:46also is like I don't like the idea of
2:02:49driving to a gas station in my Tesla and
2:02:51filling up the gas can put it in the bag
2:02:53grass it's like that even when people
2:02:55ask you questions about your like this
2:02:57car so fuel-efficient only this one
2:02:58gallon there's no tanks like no you
2:03:02don't need the tank with Tesla you just
2:03:03fill up a little tub this this will ask
2:03:05me always tell people totally believe
2:03:07you actually saw model x today which we
2:03:10IC Model S's reasonably often in
2:03:14Richmond but I saw model x today was
2:03:16very surprising still not sure if I like
2:03:19the look it's not gross its not actively
2:03:23offensive to me but I don't think I
2:03:25terribly like it either
2:03:27yeah x it looks a lot like a minivan it
2:03:30really does this look like a man looks
2:03:32like a crappy SUV crossover a turd thing
2:03:35that's a mini event now a minivan is a
2:03:38minivan my minivan looks better than the
2:03:40model i like the minivan shape between a
2:03:42more honest loaf of bread for
2:03:44transporting kids then these things
2:03:46better like I'm a jeep cherokee that's
2:03:49been squeezed out of somebody's butt
2:03:51haha oh my word oh and I like it the
2:03:57closest i think i come to ever liking
2:03:59one of those is like some of the big
2:04:02Mercedes SUV shape things are not
2:04:04embarrassing looking at a couple of the
2:04:06land rover ones might have a reasonable
2:04:09shape if their service details weren't
2:04:10that bad but the axis groups i will say
2:04:13i get x 6 not bad i don't like Conan the
2:04:17x6 Oh God adjust your eyeball sir no way
2:04:22I it's it's it's kinda like it
2:04:24it's kinda late iced tea you know the
2:04:26first baby first you're like oh that's
2:04:28weird but then you're like okay got
2:04:30can't get it like i like i don't
2:04:33advertise team or you know i don't i
2:04:35don't think i would ever want next six
2:04:37for any reason but if I were forced to
2:04:40drive one I'd like all right yeah I
2:04:42could deal with this no no no no Navy
2:04:46toad application denied know