The Accidental Tech Podcast

195: The Show Must Go On


00:00:00   my kids were refusing the purple [TS]

00:00:01   potatoes so it made into blind taste [TS]

00:00:03   test and they couldn't tell the [TS]

00:00:03   difference on my cot your stupid videos [TS]

00:00:05   it's not burned its purple just eat it [TS]

00:00:07   so as chief summarizer in chief that job [TS]

00:00:13   is usually quite delightful but on rare [TS]

00:00:15   rare occasions it is anything but [TS]

00:00:18   delightful and and we're recording the [TS]

00:00:22   night of november nine 2016 last night [TS]

00:00:26   are our country made a very peculiar [TS]

00:00:30   choice that none of the three of us [TS]

00:00:33   agree with and we were debating what to [TS]

00:00:36   do about the presidential election and [TS]

00:00:38   when how we should handle it what we [TS]

00:00:39   should say about what we should talk [TS]

00:00:41   about and the conclusion of the three of [TS]

00:00:44   us came to is we wanted to acknowledge [TS]

00:00:46   that it is the thing and it happened and [TS]

00:00:49   were upset but otherwise carry on [TS]

00:00:54   it's going to do me some good to forget [TS]

00:00:56   about this for a little while i think [TS]

00:00:58   it's going to do you guys some good to [TS]

00:01:00   forget about this for awhile and [TS]

00:01:01   genuinely no star contended it's our [TS]

00:01:05   hope that it will do you the listener [TS]

00:01:07   some good to not think about that for a [TS]

00:01:10   while I'm upset I'm frustrated and I'm [TS]

00:01:13   angry but but really I'm gonna get over [TS]

00:01:16   these macro soon for the macbook person [TS]

00:01:18   I ruin my own joke look at that that's [TS]

00:01:20   how angry I that's where we're all yeah [TS]

00:01:23   we're going to totally fix that in post [TS]

00:01:24   but anyway but no seriously though you [TS]

00:01:27   know what I I all kidding aside we're [TS]

00:01:30   all frustrated were all upset and i'll [TS]

00:01:31   give you guys a chance to weigh and if [TS]

00:01:32   you have anything to add [TS]

00:01:33   but it's gonna be business as usual [TS]

00:01:34   around here and bring a try our best to [TS]

00:01:38   just move along [TS]

00:01:39   yeah and i do want to clarify like you [TS]

00:01:41   know where we're not i'm not for a [TS]

00:01:43   second going to forget this just [TS]

00:01:44   happened and I and I I'm not going to [TS]

00:01:46   pretend that didn't happen i'm not going [TS]

00:01:49   to forget what this means what this [TS]

00:01:51   signifies to so many Americans this this [TS]

00:01:54   is not going to be forgotten at all but [TS]

00:01:58   we have a texture to do so we're going [TS]

00:02:00   to the tech show and hopefully that can [TS]

00:02:02   help us and our listeners temporarily [TS]

00:02:05   get a reprieve from what has happened at [TS]

00:02:09   the show must go on as they say we've [TS]

00:02:10   talked about this before we will talk [TS]

00:02:12   on social topics what has the intersect [TS]

00:02:14   with tech and this you know potentially [TS]

00:02:16   intersects with everything but i think [TS]

00:02:18   this falls into the category of we [TS]

00:02:19   mentioned on a past show that if [TS]

00:02:21   something really big happens it would be [TS]

00:02:22   weird if we didn't acknowledge it but by [TS]

00:02:24   the same token but especially with how [TS]

00:02:26   all three of us are feeling today and [TS]

00:02:27   now a lot of a lot of listeners are [TS]

00:02:29   feeling today your overwhelming [TS]

00:02:32   consensus is we just want to do a [TS]

00:02:34   regular show as a brief respite from [TS]

00:02:36   what we've all been dealing with today [TS]

00:02:38   and we'll be dealing with going forward [TS]

00:02:40   so there you have it [TS]

00:02:42   yeah so let's start with some follow-up [TS]

00:02:44   is psycho rights in to say Apple did not [TS]

00:02:48   ship in ed ram / iris pro skylake on the [TS]

00:02:51   15-inch macbook it is HD 530i is that [TS]

00:02:55   we're talking about video cards is that [TS]

00:02:57   right yeah that was in my reference to [TS]

00:02:58   what I was talking about in the past [TS]

00:03:00   show or I said that Apple kind of is put [TS]

00:03:04   yourself in a difficult position by [TS]

00:03:05   demanding the the highest and fanciest [TS]

00:03:08   version of all the chips especially with [TS]

00:03:09   the biggest GPU embedded in them and we [TS]

00:03:11   better if they were with the winter [TS]

00:03:12   trips and just use the discreet but [TS]

00:03:13   that's what they actually did on the 15 [TS]

00:03:15   instruments not wimpy it's the 83 530 is [TS]

00:03:18   one of the better ones but it's not the [TS]

00:03:20   one with the embedded dram and the Irish [TS]

00:03:21   pro think so [TS]

00:03:22   and now i'm not saying Irish pro which [TS]

00:03:24   is what everyone here is probably what [TS]

00:03:27   happened [TS]

00:03:27   I'm trying to say iris pro but it's [TS]

00:03:30   difficult goodness [TS]

00:03:33   alright moving along the touch bar [TS]

00:03:36   apparently registers past the screen [TS]

00:03:38   area particularly on the left-hand side [TS]

00:03:41   where the Escape key [TS]

00:03:43   well I guess is not a kid anymore the [TS]

00:03:45   escape button would be okay can we talk [TS]

00:03:48   about how we know this or should we not [TS]

00:03:50   talk about how we know this there was a [TS]

00:03:51   French website that posted something [TS]

00:03:53   that someone our listener translated for [TS]

00:03:56   me but the the difference that is what [TS]

00:03:59   we're discussing like it's a shame that [TS]

00:04:01   they didn't have the touch part always [TS]

00:04:02   had left because you can reach the upper [TS]

00:04:03   left-hand corner and feel for it and but [TS]

00:04:08   that part of that screen we knew that [TS]

00:04:09   for a fact from the from day one that [TS]

00:04:11   part is not a screen you can't draw the [TS]

00:04:13   escape button up against the left end of [TS]

00:04:15   the bar question was alright so there's [TS]

00:04:17   no image there but is it touch sensitive [TS]

00:04:19   and the answer is about half to send [TS]

00:04:21   touch-sensitive like so if you just take [TS]

00:04:23   the blank space where you can't show any [TS]

00:04:25   pixels on [TS]

00:04:26   outside of the touch bar and divide it [TS]

00:04:28   in half vertically the left half of it [TS]

00:04:30   does nothing you hit it doesn't do [TS]

00:04:32   anything it's not touch sensitive it's [TS]

00:04:33   not pressure-sensitive doesn't light up [TS]

00:04:35   for anything [TS]

00:04:35   the right half of the blank region [TS]

00:04:37   doesn't light up but does register your [TS]

00:04:38   touch in some way and because it's about [TS]

00:04:41   the width of your finger you can pretty [TS]

00:04:43   much take your finger and jam it on the [TS]

00:04:45   left side of the touch bar and it will [TS]

00:04:47   activate the Escape key in fact it will [TS]

00:04:48   activate the escapee even have no part [TS]

00:04:50   of your fingers actually touching any of [TS]

00:04:51   the pixels that make up the Escape key [TS]

00:04:53   or the picture of the escapee or [TS]

00:04:55   whatever so it's kind of a weird to [TS]

00:04:57   compromise like the almost got to go [TS]

00:04:58   edge but not quite and I guess maybe one [TS]

00:05:00   and I fix it doesn't tear now maybe [TS]

00:05:02   they'll figure out why like how did the [TS]

00:05:04   touch sensors extend that far how far [TS]

00:05:06   does the you know the screen go and so [TS]

00:05:08   on and so forth [TS]

00:05:09   have either of you done with the the the [TS]

00:05:12   simulated touch bar on an ipad yet know [TS]

00:05:15   that does that [TS]

00:05:17   yeah but it's the wrong size isn't it so [TS]

00:05:18   it since it would be much of a test of [TS]

00:05:20   anything it's interesting like iran iran [TS]

00:05:22   that way yesterday for a while i was [TS]

00:05:23   working and it's actually kind of [TS]

00:05:26   interesting well iguess looking to [TS]

00:05:28   forget your off hand but Stephen Stephen [TS]

00:05:30   transfer has been tweeting a lot here [TS]

00:05:31   and there and different things and [TS]

00:05:33   basically like you have to have xcode [TS]

00:05:34   you have to install the special build of [TS]

00:05:36   10-12 one that isn't the real 10-12 one [TS]

00:05:40   but it's a new 10-12 one with a [TS]

00:05:41   different build number you have to [TS]

00:05:42   download separately most websites kind [TS]

00:05:44   of a mess data working together like get [TS]

00:05:46   it running on an ipad which means you [TS]

00:05:47   have to have a signing provisioning [TS]

00:05:48   profile and everything but if you can [TS]

00:05:51   get past all that which is a lot [TS]

00:05:53   it is interesting to see and so you know [TS]

00:05:56   i just i place my 9.7 inch iPad pro [TS]

00:05:58   right in on top my keyboard kind of in [TS]

00:06:01   the right spot where it should be and [TS]

00:06:03   it's interesting like you know so as you [TS]

00:06:05   mentioned it is significantly smaller [TS]

00:06:07   than the real touch pocket but i'm able [TS]

00:06:10   to estimate from pictures that the real [TS]

00:06:12   touch bar is 11 inches long or 10 inches [TS]

00:06:15   long or something like that and and the [TS]

00:06:17   ipad 9.7 type the side screen is like [TS]

00:06:19   seven points something inches long so [TS]

00:06:21   it's substantially smaller and you can [TS]

00:06:23   tell it to touch targets do feel a [TS]

00:06:24   little bit small [TS]

00:06:26   when you run the simulator but it is [TS]

00:06:28   really cool to see it as you move [TS]

00:06:29   throughout the osu to see what the touch [TS]

00:06:31   bar actually does and how it responds to [TS]

00:06:33   different things that are available [TS]

00:06:35   you know as as i mentioned the end of [TS]

00:06:36   last show [TS]

00:06:38   this really is showing an apple is [TS]

00:06:40   putting a lot of effort into the mac and [TS]

00:06:42   the mac is not just some totally dead [TS]

00:06:44   platform of them because they have a lot [TS]

00:06:47   of stuff for the touch bar already like [TS]

00:06:49   it is so much so many built-in apps [TS]

00:06:52   already support the touch bar with some [TS]

00:06:54   pretty useful stuff like there's there's [TS]

00:06:56   like one doesn't like and I itunes [TS]

00:07:00   widget that's kind of always showing [TS]

00:07:01   whatever itunes doing anything it looks [TS]

00:07:03   like a little equalizer and you can tap [TS]

00:07:04   that and it converts the whole bar into [TS]

00:07:06   basically an itunes scrubber with a [TS]

00:07:08   couple of you know play/pause button and [TS]

00:07:10   its icon and you can just leave that [TS]

00:07:12   open the whole time the organs you can [TS]

00:07:13   if you if you liked the script their [TS]

00:07:14   songs or to see that your progress their [TS]

00:07:16   song which is important to listen to [TS]

00:07:18   such incredibly lazy song as I do it's [TS]

00:07:21   actually kinda nice to see and it and [TS]

00:07:23   and you can play with all the stuff like [TS]

00:07:25   on the side that actually works pretty [TS]

00:07:26   well i would say if you are curious [TS]

00:07:29   about the touch bar and if you if you [TS]

00:07:31   have the patience and skill required to [TS]

00:07:33   you know use xcode to open some open [TS]

00:07:35   source thing and provision to actually [TS]

00:07:36   run and ipad it's kinda cool to see and [TS]

00:07:40   but again like i'm not sure i would [TS]

00:07:41   recommend it for full-time use unless [TS]

00:07:43   you have a 12-point ipad brokers that [TS]

00:07:44   that actually would be big enough i [TS]

00:07:46   think i think that'd be about the right [TS]

00:07:48   size but online points evidence it's [TS]

00:07:50   pretty tiny but it's cool to see and it [TS]

00:07:53   works surprisingly well it's responsive [TS]

00:07:55   at the animations are fluid it's [TS]

00:07:56   surprisingly good for this like two day [TS]

00:07:59   a two-day-old hack basically it's pretty [TS]

00:08:02   amazing to have this running on an iPad [TS]

00:08:03   and I will say though having run this on [TS]

00:08:07   this little thing above my keyboard on [TS]

00:08:08   my desktop I think John's concerns last [TS]

00:08:11   episode about the the ergonomics of like [TS]

00:08:14   looking up and down so far between a [TS]

00:08:16   desktop screen and the frontier keyboard [TS]

00:08:18   and at that distance being way further [TS]

00:08:20   than how you how you adjust your eyes on [TS]

00:08:23   a laptop that is a real problem and it's [TS]

00:08:26   it's a problem enough that it's i'm not [TS]

00:08:30   entirely sure the touch bar on desktop [TS]

00:08:32   is ever going to make a lot of sense [TS]

00:08:33   just because that really is odd and and [TS]

00:08:37   kind of uncomfortable i will say though [TS]

00:08:39   that now that I've seen how well this [TS]

00:08:41   works it is kind of interesting idea [TS]

00:08:43   that what if Apple made an external [TS]

00:08:47   touch bar that was just it by itself [TS]

00:08:49   that didn't include [TS]

00:08:51   keyboard necessarily mean maybe you can [TS]

00:08:53   get a keyboard that have fun with it but [TS]

00:08:54   maybe they also sell an extra one like I [TS]

00:08:56   mean this is wishful thinking i don't [TS]

00:08:57   think they actually would do that but [TS]

00:09:00   this like once you use an iPad like this [TS]

00:09:02   you see like this actually does work it [TS]

00:09:05   is kinda useful and there could be [TS]

00:09:07   something here if it was done well where [TS]

00:09:10   did you put the external touch bar above [TS]

00:09:12   your keyboard simply put mine but isn't [TS]

00:09:14   it that's the same problem with all [TS]

00:09:16   desktop thing of like the photo business [TS]

00:09:18   change everything like what have you [TS]

00:09:19   solved by having just a random external [TS]

00:09:21   touch bar [TS]

00:09:22   well you have quick access to you know [TS]

00:09:24   it's it's kind of like having media keys [TS]

00:09:25   on your keyboard but you know on [TS]

00:09:27   steroids but you have to look at them i [TS]

00:09:29   have to look at most of my keys most of [TS]

00:09:30   the time too because I never remember [TS]

00:09:31   what I don't you you probably had the [TS]

00:09:34   glance may be too because you know [TS]

00:09:36   you're going for somewhere on the middle [TS]

00:09:37   like whatever that you're not really [TS]

00:09:39   different and reading and just like you [TS]

00:09:40   know glancing to see where it is but [TS]

00:09:42   well but they're always in the same spot [TS]

00:09:43   like you know like when if you something [TS]

00:09:45   if you use a frequent item a lot always [TS]

00:09:46   going to be right there i mean yeah as [TS]

00:09:48   long as that happens from most like [TS]

00:09:49   that's the tricky but how did you find [TS]

00:09:51   that in terms of the context switching [TS]

00:09:52   because if you have a particular [TS]

00:09:53   especially for media keys and stuff like [TS]

00:09:54   I'm used to having play/pause on my [TS]

00:09:56   keyboard to the toilet you know to pause [TS]

00:09:59   itunes at work but doesn't matter what [TS]

00:10:00   happened my text editor i can't play [TS]

00:10:02   pause and stop the music you know [TS]

00:10:04   someone comes over to my desk or [TS]

00:10:05   something but I've never actually in [TS]

00:10:07   itunes [TS]

00:10:08   well I wasn't using many third-party [TS]

00:10:10   apps i was only using apple ones that [TS]

00:10:12   have support for this but things like [TS]

00:10:14   having like it when I mentioned the [TS]

00:10:16   expanded iTunes U with the scrubber that [TS]

00:10:18   stays up even if itunes is not frontmost [TS]

00:10:19   which is kinda cool like that like [TS]

00:10:22   that's just like it's one of the modes [TS]

00:10:23   you know you like there's like all these [TS]

00:10:24   buttons on the side that you can [TS]

00:10:25   like.the control strip part you mean [TS]

00:10:27   that so that's always there getting on [TS]

00:10:28   the right you can toggle on certain [TS]

00:10:30   modes that persist until you change them [TS]

00:10:32   and that's just one of those modes like [TS]

00:10:34   one of them is like the old function [TS]

00:10:35   keys [TS]

00:10:35   one of them is the itunes thing you know [TS]

00:10:37   guys never use the real control pitcher [TS]

00:10:39   nope i did and it was awesome [TS]

00:10:41   congratulations once it was pluggable to [TS]

00:10:46   you could buy third-party things that [TS]

00:10:47   would add new tiles so the control [TS]

00:10:49   script and you could you know configure [TS]

00:10:51   how you wanted [TS]

00:10:53   yeah it was really nice so it's come [TS]

00:10:56   back button on my keyboard comes from [TS]

00:10:58   the other side by default actually can't [TS]

00:11:00   move the control so can you can make it [TS]

00:11:01   comfortable [TS]

00:11:02   try it's always on the right side I'm [TS]

00:11:04   sure they'll be a plist entry for you [TS]

00:11:06   John don't worry [TS]

00:11:07   no well you can even put the doctor the [TS]

00:11:08   edge anymore are you kidding that's why [TS]

00:11:10   you never mess with those sorts of [TS]

00:11:11   things kids is why you embrace the [TS]

00:11:13   defaults right I'm I fast for the big [TS]

00:11:16   scrubber that's one of my frustrations [TS]

00:11:18   with quicktime player and one of the [TS]

00:11:19   many reasons why i still have quicktime [TS]

00:11:21   player 7 installed and hope it never [TS]

00:11:22   breaks is frequently if I mean I should [TS]

00:11:26   probably use a real audio editor like [TS]

00:11:28   vision or something and sometimes i do [TS]

00:11:29   but sometimes you just want to open up [TS]

00:11:31   an audio file and scrub to a particular [TS]

00:11:32   time stamp and it's a really long file [TS]

00:11:34   because it's like a podcast or something [TS]

00:11:36   and you just can't do it in like when [TS]

00:11:39   the the audio window is small so i [TS]

00:11:42   opened in QuickTime 7 and I stretch the [TS]

00:11:45   audio window to really wide and yelling [TS]

00:11:46   I have a scrubber that's the entire with [TS]

00:11:48   my screen to give me the resolution I [TS]

00:11:50   suppose that the quicktime player to the [TS]

00:11:52   point is I'm i'm making a window bigger [TS]

00:11:53   on a non visual medium the only reason [TS]

00:11:55   I'm making the window bigger because i [TS]

00:11:57   want more precision in the scrubber this [TS]

00:11:59   brings us back to our old discussion [TS]

00:12:00   about ideas of zooming and scrubbed and [TS]

00:12:02   stuff but anyway if you have a screen [TS]

00:12:04   that is the width of a qwerty keyboard [TS]

00:12:06   that's pretty good scrubber length then [TS]

00:12:08   you probably get decent resolution [TS]

00:12:09   they're not as big as you get maybe I'm [TS]

00:12:12   like a giant 5k display where you make [TS]

00:12:14   the entire width of the thing but you [TS]

00:12:15   know I mean a certain point you need to [TS]

00:12:16   just open audio editor and zoom in on [TS]

00:12:18   the way for my understand that but it's [TS]

00:12:20   one of those hacks that you do so in [TS]

00:12:23   summary Marco touch bar tentatively [TS]

00:12:26   optimistic i mean you sound pretty [TS]

00:12:28   pleased with it in principle I mean I'll [TS]

00:12:31   again I didn't get to try a real one yet [TS]

00:12:33   is your show time [TS]

00:12:34   time will tell on this again it seems [TS]

00:12:36   pretty cool [TS]

00:12:37   I i think if I were buying again I think [TS]

00:12:40   what I what I said last episode of you [TS]

00:12:42   are lying again [TS]

00:12:44   yeah if I were buying a laptop a mac [TS]

00:12:47   laptop today and I intended to use it as [TS]

00:12:51   my primary computer i would get the [TS]

00:12:53   touch bar because it will I think it [TS]

00:12:54   will probably end up being really great [TS]

00:12:57   reviewer seem to have them now so we [TS]

00:12:59   should here fairly soon from people who [TS]

00:13:01   have actual hands-on experience for more [TS]

00:13:04   than 10 minutes we should hear from them [TS]

00:13:07   how these are in practice and then [TS]

00:13:08   hopefully sometime soon people actually [TS]

00:13:11   start being able to own these things I [TS]

00:13:13   mean you know i don't think any [TS]

00:13:15   additional [TS]

00:13:15   in the initial orders have shipped yet [TS]

00:13:17   they all had like that to three weeks [TS]

00:13:19   ship date estimate at first so i don't [TS]

00:13:21   think anybody actually has one yet [TS]

00:13:23   except a couple of reviewers but I do [TS]

00:13:25   look forward to hearing what they say [TS]

00:13:27   having use the real one not some ipad [TS]

00:13:29   approximation of it but the ipad [TS]

00:13:32   approximation was pretty good [TS]

00:13:33   that's also my mom really looking [TS]

00:13:35   forward to trying this one day [TS]

00:13:37   eventually maybe john told me about the [TS]

00:13:40   next Mac Pro is going to be an [TS]

00:13:41   all-in-one this is a topic that has come [TS]

00:13:44   up lots of past shows and has been [TS]

00:13:47   gaining steam as people here is known [TS]

00:13:49   about the mac pro and Marco a big piece [TS]

00:13:51   about the advantages of pro and all that [TS]

00:13:53   and it's seeming to me you know probably [TS]

00:13:57   many months out from any potential [TS]

00:13:58   movement on this front that if Apple is [TS]

00:14:02   not going to make another mac pro in the [TS]

00:14:06   style that we expected to be as in a [TS]

00:14:08   computer that doesn't have a monitor [TS]

00:14:10   like they're you know they're not gonna [TS]

00:14:11   make another trash can [TS]

00:14:13   if they're reimagining the mac pro is [TS]

00:14:14   something other than a trashcan most [TS]

00:14:16   likely reimagining is what everyone [TS]

00:14:18   keeps referring to as an imac pro which [TS]

00:14:19   is the big 5k screen with a bunch of [TS]

00:14:23   computer crap stuck to the back of it [TS]

00:14:24   and the only difference would be that [TS]

00:14:26   the computer craft stuff to the back of [TS]

00:14:27   it is more pro ish answer those [TS]

00:14:31   questions like can you fit a xeon in [TS]

00:14:34   there can you actually put a decent [TS]

00:14:35   graphics card in there there's a lot of [TS]

00:14:38   room behind a 5k display obviously they [TS]

00:14:40   wanted to be super skinny and they're [TS]

00:14:41   kind of like that their own self-imposed [TS]

00:14:44   constraints especially in the back of [TS]

00:14:45   the display because they didn't even see [TS]

00:14:46   that when you're looking at the front it [TS]

00:14:48   doesn't need to be portable except for [TS]

00:14:49   the guy who brings imac to panera bread [TS]

00:14:51   to play World of Warcraft not [TS]

00:14:53   yeah I so you know realistically you [TS]

00:14:57   could totally do that now if Apple did [TS]

00:14:59   it I assume they would make their life [TS]

00:15:01   more difficult by still trying to make [TS]

00:15:03   it thin and using all their skills honed [TS]

00:15:07   by working on the super slim macbook [TS]

00:15:09   pros and on their I devices to continue [TS]

00:15:13   to make it skinny and use clever heat [TS]

00:15:17   routing and venting and special fans and [TS]

00:15:20   whatever to make it so it doesn't melt [TS]

00:15:21   and so these days [TS]

00:15:24   well as I'd well about the mac pro in [TS]

00:15:26   bits and pieces [TS]

00:15:28   I started thinking about a macpro that [TS]

00:15:30   looks like an imac and thinking they can [TS]

00:15:32   fit some pretty good stuff in there [TS]

00:15:33   maybe they won't even go as the ensemble [TS]

00:15:35   just try to use better desktop chips and [TS]

00:15:37   have a higher ram ceiling and a bigger [TS]

00:15:39   GPU maybe it really literally is named [TS]

00:15:42   my mac pro or maybe just called mac pro [TS]

00:15:44   in the new mac pro is an all-in-one you [TS]

00:15:46   know like they say this is the [TS]

00:15:49   bargaining stage here I might just about [TS]

00:15:50   to say that get out of my head all my [TS]

00:15:52   gosh make me a matte black mac pro shape [TS]

00:15:56   thing with a decent GPU and aziani see [TS]

00:16:00   ram with the high limit i buy it [TS]

00:16:03   yeah i mean that's I would love that my [TS]

00:16:06   self i would absolutely love that and [TS]

00:16:08   another thing is like you know again I [TS]

00:16:10   mean this totally is bargaining but at [TS]

00:16:13   this point i'll take what we can get you [TS]

00:16:15   know if they can make something that is [TS]

00:16:17   mac pro like that happens to be an [TS]

00:16:20   all-in-one that will cut out certain use [TS]

00:16:23   cases that will make certain people who [TS]

00:16:25   would have bought our mac pro not buy it [TS]

00:16:27   and that will possibly hurt sales but if [TS]

00:16:30   that's what Apple has to do to make it [TS]

00:16:32   palatable to Tim Cook and jony ive then [TS]

00:16:35   I guess we'll be no I I would take that [TS]

00:16:38   over no mac pro you know so I don't know [TS]

00:16:41   but I i think the question of what you [TS]

00:16:43   could put into that depends entirely on [TS]

00:16:46   the cooling setup you know if you look [TS]

00:16:48   at the way the two mac pro is setup [TS]

00:16:50   which by the way like and I didn't [TS]

00:16:51   mention this too much in the post i but [TS]

00:16:53   the two Mac Pro has a serious problem [TS]

00:16:56   that the GPUs die frequently and this is [TS]

00:17:01   this has never really been much in the [TS]

00:17:03   public eye because not a lot of people [TS]

00:17:04   on these machines are also speaking but [TS]

00:17:07   that there's a massive like GPU death [TS]

00:17:10   flaw in the tube mac pro I brought this [TS]

00:17:12   up about about your article you didn't [TS]

00:17:14   add it to your article to do well i [TS]

00:17:16   hears things ok [TS]

00:17:18   a lot of people have first asking a [TS]

00:17:20   question of like why do I presume the [TS]

00:17:23   mac pro is dead and i'll tell you right [TS]

00:17:26   now we've heard tips from so many [TS]

00:17:29   different sources and they all conflict [TS]

00:17:31   with each other every single every [TS]

00:17:33   single tip we've heard it's different [TS]

00:17:34   from a different referred some of them [TS]

00:17:36   are in direct contradiction [TS]

00:17:37   I've heard that the mac pro is already [TS]

00:17:39   dead I've heard that the mac pro is [TS]

00:17:41   on hold I've heard the mac pro is not [TS]

00:17:44   dead but going to take a different form [TS]

00:17:46   that the mac pro is very much alive and [TS]

00:17:49   the mac pro is coming between last month [TS]

00:17:51   and next summer but I think all those I [TS]

00:17:54   think all those things the reason I'm [TS]

00:17:56   not big on the imac programmers because [TS]

00:17:57   i think it fits all of them because the [TS]

00:17:58   people saying it's dead [TS]

00:17:59   what they really mean is the trashcan [TS]

00:18:01   instead check people say it's coming but [TS]

00:18:03   in a new form that's that's the imac [TS]

00:18:05   proform factor the dates nobody knows [TS]

00:18:07   those so forget about it [TS]

00:18:09   well what I haven't heard of anything [TS]

00:18:10   like this guy like me or not because [TS]

00:18:12   that's really i think that is really [TS]

00:18:13   about the death of the net profits if [TS]

00:18:15   it's not the Xenon's it's just a desktop [TS]

00:18:16   trips with a better see you then it [TS]

00:18:17   literally is just a better iMac which [TS]

00:18:19   you know hey we'll take what we can get [TS]

00:18:20   but but I getting back to cooling like [TS]

00:18:22   one of the things you listed on your [TS]

00:18:24   article we have mac pro is so it doesn't [TS]

00:18:27   you know how like a laptop when you push [TS]

00:18:29   it hard and the imac doesn't how like a [TS]

00:18:31   laptop that kind of moans like an imac [TS]

00:18:34   like it's not what I was quieted the mac [TS]

00:18:36   pro and i have to say thats that's not a [TS]

00:18:39   i keep using like luxurious or elegant [TS]

00:18:41   or whatever but like it there if you [TS]

00:18:44   have hardware empathy empathy for the [TS]

00:18:46   machine which i think i've talked about [TS]

00:18:47   on the past podcast it but and you try [TS]

00:18:51   to do something that stress is your [TS]

00:18:52   computer and it is just that just the [TS]

00:18:54   fans are just going to hear it worrying [TS]

00:18:56   there's a certain baseline level of [TS]

00:18:59   anxiety that I feel about that [TS]

00:19:01   I mean it's kind of annoying sound first [TS]

00:19:02   of all and second of all you're like [TS]

00:19:03   this is everything okay am I you know is [TS]

00:19:07   it good to do this what what if your [TS]

00:19:09   laptop sounded like that you know eight [TS]

00:19:11   hours a day while you worked like it [TS]

00:19:13   can't be good for the thing to be yeah [TS]

00:19:15   and and it is an annoying sound it feels [TS]

00:19:17   better to get a big honking machine that [TS]

00:19:20   you can stress to its limits and it you [TS]

00:19:23   know and it doesn't make a big racket [TS]

00:19:25   and so the imac does not fulfill that [TS]

00:19:27   criteria and and the reason I brought up [TS]

00:19:29   to to mark about his articles like that [TS]

00:19:32   is an advantage of the mac pro the the [TS]

00:19:34   idealized mac pro of course the 2008 [TS]

00:19:36   pack program sitting next to which is [TS]

00:19:39   humongous and weighs 50 pounds but the [TS]

00:19:41   trashcan mac pro fulfills the quietness [TS]

00:19:44   ideal but not so much the not melting [TS]

00:19:46   ideal which is an important part of them [TS]

00:19:49   the power and elegance formula for the [TS]

00:19:51   mac pro is you can be quiet and have [TS]

00:19:53   good cooling but that also means the [TS]

00:19:55   parts that are inside you can't die from [TS]

00:19:56   excessive heat and the current trashcan [TS]

00:19:58   want current the new 2013 trashcan has [TS]

00:20:01   had a history of perhaps not doing so [TS]

00:20:03   well on removing the heat but it's [TS]

00:20:05   pretty quiet [TS]

00:20:06   yeah but anyway I wrote this article [TS]

00:20:09   with the presumption that the mac pro is [TS]

00:20:12   either dead or quote on hold whatever [TS]

00:20:15   that means and the point of this article [TS]

00:20:17   is not to keep people's hopes up that [TS]

00:20:22   it's not dead yet the points article is [TS]

00:20:25   to help convince the people at Apple [TS]

00:20:27   that if this thing is truly either dead [TS]

00:20:30   or postponed or on hold or whatever to [TS]

00:20:33   try to convince them that I don't think [TS]

00:20:35   that's the right move and and basically [TS]

00:20:36   please don't do that and it has gotten a [TS]

00:20:39   little large response very large [TS]

00:20:41   response and and so I think I think I've [TS]

00:20:44   hit on something here and and when you [TS]

00:20:48   when you see the article in that way [TS]

00:20:49   that's why at the beginning I assume [TS]

00:20:52   that it's gone and I didn't bring up [TS]

00:20:55   like you know here's why the current [TS]

00:20:58   trash can overheat gpus because you know [TS]

00:21:00   that that is a real problem but that was [TS]

00:21:03   it didn't really need to be in there i [TS]

00:21:04   did mention here's why the current [TS]

00:21:07   trashcan sales might not be very good [TS]

00:21:08   and why you shouldn't use that I think [TS]

00:21:11   the overheating is one of them like that [TS]

00:21:13   sigh I think like highlighting you know [TS]

00:21:14   it's not that we interviewed bring this [TS]

00:21:16   up is not that we did nobody like the [TS]

00:21:18   mac pro is that you changed it so much [TS]

00:21:20   in the ways that you change it or maybe [TS]

00:21:22   not palatable so that all the people who [TS]

00:21:24   buy mac pros and it's not as if you [TS]

00:21:25   while the mac pro's not for you it's [TS]

00:21:27   like what's gonna be for somebody and [TS]

00:21:28   apparently the trashcan macro was not [TS]

00:21:30   for enough people so i'm one of the [TS]

00:21:32   things is reliability but you know he's [TS]

00:21:34   one of the things you expect his [TS]

00:21:35   quietness able to handle high load and [TS]

00:21:37   reliable that's why you got the ECC ram [TS]

00:21:39   that's why you have the you know [TS]

00:21:40   workstation class components or do you [TS]

00:21:42   want to call and you know that is not [TS]

00:21:44   super duper overclock that is supposed [TS]

00:21:46   to be a reliable piece of hardware and [TS]

00:21:48   the trash can never quite fulfilled that [TS]

00:21:50   so it's yet another reason to add to the [TS]

00:21:52   pile of why the trashcan might not have [TS]

00:21:54   been successful and that is not [TS]

00:21:56   oh you know this isn't there's no market [TS]

00:21:58   for promac anymore because I think there [TS]

00:22:00   still is [TS]

00:22:01   it's small it's a small as it's ever [TS]

00:22:03   been but you have to actually serve that [TS]

00:22:04   market if you want to sell into it [TS]

00:22:05   exactly [TS]

00:22:07   but anyway so in summary my article was [TS]

00:22:10   basically a letter to apple presuming [TS]

00:22:13   that they've killed the mac pro trying [TS]

00:22:16   to trying to shoot down reasons that [TS]

00:22:18   they might be using internally why they [TS]

00:22:21   should make this computer anymore and it [TS]

00:22:23   just so happened to be also wrapped up [TS]

00:22:25   in some other things the pros my life [TS]

00:22:27   and everything else because that's how I [TS]

00:22:28   feel and and my love for mac OS and not [TS]

00:22:31   wanting to leave mac OS x like what am I [TS]

00:22:33   gonna do go use windows no windows is [TS]

00:22:35   horrible sorry all the people who [TS]

00:22:37   respond to me saying that stupid thing [TS]

00:22:38   to say [TS]

00:22:39   no no it's true it's true Casey is an [TS]

00:22:41   official windows are well i was i was in [TS]

00:22:44   that I wasn't and more recently than me [TS]

00:22:46   yeah oh yeah because i installed Windows [TS]

00:22:48   10 just two weeks ago or something like [TS]

00:22:50   that what happened are you okay [TS]

00:22:52   don't even get me started i and i've [TS]

00:22:54   installed Windows 10 and I was genuinely [TS]

00:22:56   liked it [TS]

00:22:57   hand on heart I'm not trying to be funny [TS]

00:22:58   I was look kind of looking forward to it [TS]

00:23:00   in a way because everyone every time [TS]

00:23:03   I've ever seen anyone talk about Windows [TS]

00:23:04   10 I'd always heard you know it's really [TS]

00:23:06   good now it's good it's good you know [TS]

00:23:07   it's not bad at all and i installed it [TS]

00:23:11   and it is just as bad as everything is [TS]

00:23:13   always been and I think we talked about [TS]

00:23:14   this already on the last show so I won't [TS]

00:23:16   belabor the labor it anymore but it's [TS]

00:23:19   terrible don't believe otherwise it's [TS]

00:23:21   terrible [TS]

00:23:22   anyway moving on so one of you put this [TS]

00:23:26   in the show notes is a genuinely great [TS]

00:23:28   question uh what external monitors or [TS]

00:23:31   Apple employees using with laptops now [TS]

00:23:34   for now they're probably using [TS]

00:23:34   Thunderbolt express but this this [TS]

00:23:36   question or idea was brought in many [TS]

00:23:40   different forms a surprising number of a [TS]

00:23:41   parent supposedly you know presumably [TS]

00:23:43   completely independent people came up [TS]

00:23:45   with this one scenario [TS]

00:23:46   hey Apple to the new spaceship campus [TS]

00:23:48   with a cool-looking office is shaped [TS]

00:23:49   like a ring and all this you know open [TS]

00:23:52   seating or whatever it is they were [TS]

00:23:53   trying to say like what would it be like [TS]

00:23:54   to walk into this spaceship campus and [TS]

00:23:58   see the Apple engineers diligently [TS]

00:24:00   working as if you're actually able to [TS]

00:24:01   see where they work because you probably [TS]

00:24:02   can't get bad country but anyway this is [TS]

00:24:04   these are people writing like and [TS]

00:24:06   presumably those people would have [TS]

00:24:08   laptops as a apple doesn't make desktops [TS]

00:24:10   anymore and who would use an imac and [TS]

00:24:12   whatever whatever but you know people [TS]

00:24:14   with laptops as we mentioned even apple [TS]

00:24:17   laptops when they're sitting at a desk [TS]

00:24:18   might like to have a bigger screen [TS]

00:24:20   do stuff on right because one of the [TS]

00:24:22   advantages of sitting down or standing [TS]

00:24:23   up standing desk or whatever you can [TS]

00:24:25   have a much bigger screen or multiple [TS]

00:24:27   screens or whatever and for all these [TS]

00:24:30   people asking this question they [TS]

00:24:32   couldn't envision a scenario where [TS]

00:24:33   Apple's headquarters was filled with [TS]

00:24:37   people using apple laptops connected to [TS]

00:24:39   non-apple monitors is it because not [TS]

00:24:41   Apple monitors are ugly [TS]

00:24:42   is it because they wouldn't match is it [TS]

00:24:44   because it wouldn't fit their idea of [TS]

00:24:45   these architects sketches of this [TS]

00:24:47   beautiful pristine a place where [TS]

00:24:49   everything is all apple and perfect in [TS]

00:24:50   the tables are made from one giant [TS]

00:24:52   continuous piece of wood painstakingly [TS]

00:24:53   manufactured in Germany or whatever [TS]

00:24:55   that's probably part of it but the [TS]

00:24:57   practical consideration is you know I [TS]

00:24:59   was brought before apples monitors for a [TS]

00:25:01   while have made to connect two laptops [TS]

00:25:03   if they don't make any monitors which [TS]

00:25:05   seems like they're not anymore and if [TS]

00:25:08   the mac pro disappears and becomes an [TS]

00:25:09   all-in-one what are all the laptops and [TS]

00:25:12   connect to and I guess the other [TS]

00:25:13   connected question to this is the [TS]

00:25:17   question of target display mode for imax [TS]

00:25:19   which used to be a thing and then wasn't [TS]

00:25:21   but now with the advent of Thunderbolt [TS]

00:25:23   three we'll talk about in a little bit [TS]

00:25:25   in theory you can buy an imac and just [TS]

00:25:30   use it as a monitor when you sit down [TS]

00:25:31   and get your laptop to which were being [TS]

00:25:33   make the world's most expensive monitor [TS]

00:25:35   not really actually the Apple 30 inches [TS]

00:25:36   probably still more money but it would [TS]

00:25:38   be a very expensive monitor at total [TS]

00:25:40   waste of the internals but technically [TS]

00:25:43   it is possible and that would be an out [TS]

00:25:45   to let apples campus photos continue to [TS]

00:25:48   be completely appellee from top to [TS]

00:25:50   bottom realistically speaking as for the [TS]

00:25:52   campus pictures you're not going to see [TS]

00:25:54   any except for reception of those are [TS]

00:25:55   going to be imax and they're gonna be [TS]

00:25:56   all in one they're gonna have a big [TS]

00:25:57   apple logo on them and it'll be fine [TS]

00:25:59   I i think i speak for all of us and [TS]

00:26:01   saying we have some friends at apple and [TS]

00:26:03   one of my friends at apple i know for a [TS]

00:26:06   fact is rolling the dell 5k display as I [TS]

00:26:10   believe a child to his 5k imac at the [TS]

00:26:13   office I blg or the know the dell the [TS]

00:26:16   double cable one correct [TS]

00:26:19   I maybe this is his home machine I I so [TS]

00:26:22   i might be lying unintentionally but i [TS]

00:26:25   am almost positive that this is his work [TS]

00:26:27   machine it's a 5k imac connected to this [TS]

00:26:30   double-double cable to this dell 5k [TS]

00:26:33   display too and so in the future I would [TS]

00:26:35   expect it would be the LG 5k display and [TS]

00:26:38   you're never going to see that because [TS]

00:26:39   he can take you to his office anyway [TS]

00:26:40   right exactly i have i have no idea what [TS]

00:26:43   an apple developer office even looks [TS]

00:26:46   like i don't have ever seen a single [TS]

00:26:47   picture of one of anybody's ever usually [TS]

00:26:50   look at what they look like in the [TS]

00:26:51   nineties they were awesome people that [TS]

00:26:53   died eight the giant 84 tvs with the CRT [TS]

00:26:56   monitor with two big speakers on the [TS]

00:26:57   bottom and because they would you know [TS]

00:26:59   their hoard the fanciest Mac hardware [TS]

00:27:01   like I think it was it was more of a big [TS]

00:27:03   deal back when Max were just so much [TS]

00:27:06   more expensive and again if you look at [TS]

00:27:08   the original purchase price of the mac [TS]

00:27:09   to FX and converted to twenty sixteen [TS]

00:27:11   dollars you will be very surprised I'm [TS]

00:27:14   so but if you worked at Apple you access [TS]

00:27:15   that stuff so I remember a lot of like [TS]

00:27:17   cubicle farm pictures from the nineties [TS]

00:27:18   that office is not capable so anyway [TS]

00:27:20   very sort of you know if you are [TS]

00:27:24   listening to this and you are a nineties [TS]

00:27:26   era apple employee and have photos of [TS]

00:27:28   your cool setup senior officers send [TS]

00:27:30   them a couple of them send us a couple [TS]

00:27:32   of them because i love seeing those and [TS]

00:27:34   i'm sure they're not quite what they [TS]

00:27:35   look like today I have not actually seen [TS]

00:27:37   the inside of an actual human working [TS]

00:27:39   person's office an apple in recent years [TS]

00:27:41   so I don't know what they're like but I [TS]

00:27:42   do know that Apple right now has many [TS]

00:27:45   different buildings that vary widely in [TS]

00:27:48   how nice they are how modern they are [TS]

00:27:51   when they were built what the [TS]

00:27:52   accommodations are like and the [TS]

00:27:54   spaceship will be another iteration that [TS]

00:27:56   I think of a spaceship they have a bunch [TS]

00:27:58   of mock-ups you can see pictures of what [TS]

00:28:00   they expect though the work areas to be [TS]

00:28:01   like in the office to be like but there [TS]

00:28:03   is no like what does an apple officers [TS]

00:28:06   like because apples campus is so much [TS]

00:28:08   bigger than the giant one infinite loop [TS]

00:28:10   building it's so many other buildings [TS]

00:28:11   scattered all over the place and they [TS]

00:28:13   are very different from each other [TS]

00:28:14   enough so tell us [TS]

00:28:17   speaking of displays and cabling tell us [TS]

00:28:20   about displayport some writing with a [TS]

00:28:22   bunch of facts about displayport and [TS]

00:28:23   we've talked about all these at bits and [TS]

00:28:25   pieces before we talk about how we [TS]

00:28:27   didn't think there was going to be an [TS]

00:28:28   external 5k display for a long time [TS]

00:28:30   because you couldn't run it over [TS]

00:28:32   displayport that the current standard [TS]

00:28:34   we're on displayport 1.2 and didn't have [TS]

00:28:36   it can only go up to 4k [TS]

00:28:39   I'm like might be on display port 143 [TS]

00:28:40   comes but that's not gonna be out for a [TS]

00:28:41   long time so what are they going to do [TS]

00:28:43   we found out the answer to that was that [TS]

00:28:45   they're gonna do this you know what they [TS]

00:28:48   do with the LG Display it's one cable [TS]

00:28:49   it's not two cables and they just stream [TS]

00:28:51   multiple displayport 1.2 streams over it [TS]

00:28:54   but this information we got sent as a [TS]

00:28:56   summary brought home another reality [TS]

00:28:59   which is even one display part 13 comes [TS]

00:29:01   it still is not your Savior not that we [TS]

00:29:03   need to save your network is we have a [TS]

00:29:04   solution but it is not your Savior for [TS]

00:29:05   connecting your 5k display because [TS]

00:29:07   display part 1.3 only does 5k at 60 [TS]

00:29:11   frames per second at eight bits per [TS]

00:29:13   component whereas displayport 1.2 goes [TS]

00:29:15   up to 4k at 60 frames per second at ten [TS]

00:29:18   bits per component which is important if [TS]

00:29:20   you're doing fancy photo and video work [TS]

00:29:22   and honesty like color banding all the [TS]

00:29:24   crap and also the Alpine Ridge [TS]

00:29:28   Thunderbolt chipset can't receive that [TS]

00:29:31   display part 1 point 3 input anyway so [TS]

00:29:33   it's kind of a moot point [TS]

00:29:35   so we're going to be in the world of to [TS]

00:29:40   displayport 1.2 streams being told over [TS]

00:29:43   firewire for a while because that's the [TS]

00:29:45   only way you can get five days [TS]

00:29:47   experience for second 10 bits per [TS]

00:29:49   component so may be displayed for 1.4 [TS]

00:29:53   will do it in a single stream I don't [TS]

00:29:54   know [TS]

00:29:55   and as for Thunderbolt Thunderbolt [TS]

00:29:57   angles Thunderbolt one could send to [TS]

00:30:00   displayport 1.1 streams Thunderbolt [TS]

00:30:02   three can send to displayport 1.2 trips [TS]

00:30:05   obviously we know it can do that because [TS]

00:30:07   it doesn't the LG display and when [TS]

00:30:09   Thunderbolt three does that it still [TS]

00:30:11   leaves 10 gigabits per second band was [TS]

00:30:13   left over for other stuff so that is the [TS]

00:30:15   magic that makes the laptops being [TS]

00:30:17   connected to LG Display working that is [TS]

00:30:19   like if you take that back in time and [TS]

00:30:22   show that to someone like 15 years ago [TS]

00:30:23   as I you're going to output how much [TS]

00:30:25   video over this skinny little thing at [TS]

00:30:28   home we had we were just connecting like [TS]

00:30:30   the ADC connector dvir these big honking [TS]

00:30:33   multi-pin parallel things with big thick [TS]

00:30:35   cables at resolutions that are you know [TS]

00:30:37   I a tiny fraction of the current one and [TS]

00:30:39   now we're able to do this you know it is [TS]

00:30:42   which is still kind of a hack taking [TS]

00:30:43   those to display for all my two streams [TS]

00:30:45   and streaming them over this one cable [TS]

00:30:47   because that the standards don't have [TS]

00:30:48   enough to fill the whole screen then [TS]

00:30:50   putting them back together with the [TS]

00:30:51   display control and everything that is a [TS]

00:30:53   that's very impressive and we mentioned [TS]

00:30:54   multi screaming sometimes abbreviated [TS]

00:30:56   MST that actually refers to the part of [TS]

00:31:00   the display point 1.2 spec that lets you [TS]

00:31:02   tunnel to displayport 1.1 streams over [TS]

00:31:05   it and i keep saying that's what I'm [TS]

00:31:07   going to 1.1 1.3 but the abbreviation [TS]

00:31:09   that's used frequently hbr which [TS]

00:31:12   hopefully stands for high bitrate and [TS]

00:31:14   displayport 1.2 hbr displayport 1.2 is [TS]

00:31:17   hbr to and displayport 1.3 her3 I don't [TS]

00:31:20   know that has any clarification but [TS]

00:31:22   that's how its referred to it and this [TS]

00:31:23   email on some of the literature clears [TS]

00:31:25   mom [TS]

00:31:26   yeah anyway good thing we don't have to [TS]

00:31:29   wait for this point 1.3 and it's really [TS]

00:31:30   cool what Apple did to get the extra 5k [TS]

00:31:33   display working just in time for them to [TS]

00:31:35   not introduce a new mac pro and finally [TS]

00:31:39   some potentially ready to this we got an [TS]

00:31:42   anonymous as yet unconfirmed tip that [TS]

00:31:44   know the LG Display does not have a GPU [TS]

00:31:46   in it which makes sense in light of this [TS]

00:31:48   play port stuff because why wouldn't [TS]

00:31:49   need to GPU if they can output to [TS]

00:31:51   displayport 1.2 streams over the single [TS]

00:31:53   cable told you to display goodness [TS]

00:31:55   receive them and make one image out of [TS]

00:31:57   them and Bob's your uncle as they say [TS]

00:31:59   okay and then any as a final note and [TS]

00:32:05   this is clearly for John tell me about [TS]

00:32:07   the macbook pro as the naked robotic or [TS]

00:32:10   if you please [TS]

00:32:11   this is another topic that my listeners [TS]

00:32:12   have brought up with the negative erotic [TS]

00:32:14   or for brief review is the idea for the [TS]

00:32:17   iDevices specifically the iphone that [TS]

00:32:19   Apple wants to make the smaller skinnies [TS]

00:32:22   thing possible even if it doesn't [TS]

00:32:24   function as a complete phone and allow [TS]

00:32:26   people to augment it either right with [TS]

00:32:28   cases or battery cases or colors or [TS]

00:32:29   whatever that they don't sell you the [TS]

00:32:31   entire phone i tell you the Naked [TS]

00:32:32   robotic core and then you dress it up to [TS]

00:32:34   be the phone you really want to be [TS]

00:32:35   because of Apple made those choices and [TS]

00:32:37   put a rubberized rugged case on the [TS]

00:32:39   thing for you are mated thicker and [TS]

00:32:41   bigger and ruggedized the people who [TS]

00:32:42   wanted a skinny little silver thing [TS]

00:32:44   couldn't have it and the people who [TS]

00:32:45   wanted a different color coordinate some [TS]

00:32:47   sources like here you go here's the [TS]

00:32:48   negative robotic or add to it whatever [TS]

00:32:50   you want that's strategy has been [TS]

00:32:52   discussed a long time as a you know [TS]

00:32:54   trying to get apples head about why they [TS]

00:32:56   make a difference dinner and slippery [TS]

00:32:58   and also stuff and so probably brought [TS]

00:33:01   it up for the macbook pro [TS]

00:33:03   is the macbook pro and a robotic or and [TS]

00:33:05   my initial instinct was that it was no [TS]

00:33:06   use you don't put a case on your thing [TS]

00:33:08   about battery case for macbook pro would [TS]

00:33:10   be awesome but you don't like to do [TS]

00:33:12   external batteries for but it's not it's [TS]

00:33:14   not like you put a flowery case on it so [TS]

00:33:16   when you accidentally drop it doesn't [TS]

00:33:18   get being like it's not it's a different [TS]

00:33:19   size class of item than a phone doesn't [TS]

00:33:22   seem like they're selling you the [TS]

00:33:23   skinniest thing possible allowing you to [TS]

00:33:25   bulk it up by adding stuff to it [TS]

00:33:27   although I suppose you could do that and [TS]

00:33:28   i'm sure someone out there make the case [TS]

00:33:29   for the macbook pro but I thought about [TS]

00:33:33   a little more one aspect of it does seem [TS]

00:33:36   kind of make a robotic Corey and gets [TS]

00:33:37   into the idea of the Thunderbolt three [TS]

00:33:39   ports that uh that again as the discuss [TS]

00:33:42   last show i'm in favor of going to a [TS]

00:33:45   bunch of uniform very small [TS]

00:33:46   multi-purpose sports that can do [TS]

00:33:47   everything [TS]

00:33:48   they're cool they're multi-purpose they [TS]

00:33:51   can do a lot of things but one of the [TS]

00:33:54   aspects of Thunderbolt ports there that [TS]

00:33:57   makes them so multi-purpose is there [TS]

00:34:00   like an external ization of pci or pci [TS]

00:34:02   express that necessitates the external [TS]

00:34:05   ization of certain components for [TS]

00:34:07   example like this one little tiny plug i [TS]

00:34:09   can plug in here and i can do video out [TS]

00:34:11   to DVI to VGA to me displayport to [TS]

00:34:14   Thunderbolt Display hdmi look at all [TS]

00:34:17   these different options i don't have to [TS]

00:34:18   put 17 different video course on the [TS]

00:34:20   side of my mac i can just have this one [TS]

00:34:22   little skinny port but the price for [TS]

00:34:25   doing that is that you have externalize [TS]

00:34:27   doll the circuitry required to make hdmi [TS]

00:34:30   output work to make DVI of work because [TS]

00:34:32   the desert disgusting seen in the past [TS]

00:34:34   lots of these adapters have chips in [TS]

00:34:36   them and those chips aren't just like [TS]

00:34:38   optional will go away you know once once [TS]

00:34:40   the world to get six like it's because [TS]

00:34:42   the thing that's coming out of that the [TS]

00:34:43   that part of what you do that is not [TS]

00:34:46   video if only my projector could [TS]

00:34:48   understand it it is an external ization [TS]

00:34:51   of the pci bus so there needs to be some [TS]

00:34:53   chips to deal with that and not [TS]

00:34:55   reference center for all things like USB [TS]

00:34:56   you could connect right to it so when we [TS]

00:34:57   all covered us bc on all devices [TS]

00:34:59   everywhere we don't have that problem [TS]

00:35:01   but certain devices still have some part [TS]

00:35:05   that could have been inside the computer [TS]

00:35:06   if there was a big honkin port move to [TS]

00:35:09   the outside of the computer now those [TS]

00:35:10   components are small and often they fit [TS]

00:35:12   in a little adapter that you wouldn't [TS]

00:35:13   even see and in theory they could also [TS]

00:35:15   be moving to the [TS]

00:35:16   Isis eventually but for a while I think [TS]

00:35:18   one of the prices of this beautiful [TS]

00:35:20   uniform for future not just the fact [TS]

00:35:23   that we have dongles but that Apple is [TS]

00:35:25   pushing some logic some tact of logic [TS]

00:35:29   outside of their computer case you used [TS]

00:35:31   to be in the inside and now they're [TS]

00:35:33   giving you the Naked even less robotic [TS]

00:35:36   or because some of the robotic missus [TS]

00:35:37   has been moved outside the case so i've [TS]

00:35:39   been i've been thinking about that and [TS]

00:35:40   thinking is there a future where you [TS]

00:35:42   plop down your super skinny mac laptop [TS]

00:35:45   and the only thing you ever upload into [TS]

00:35:46   it is super skinny beautiful slender [TS]

00:35:49   cables none of which have a big wide [TS]

00:35:53   dongle brick that contains the [TS]

00:35:55   impossibly small active chip to do some [TS]

00:35:57   sort of translation and one thing that I [TS]

00:36:00   think is necessary regression of this [TS]

00:36:05   move though of the move to externalize [TS]

00:36:07   in all these different little things and [TS]

00:36:09   and and you know pouring all of the [TS]

00:36:12   complexity and capability of adapting to [TS]

00:36:15   different ports and protocols and [TS]

00:36:17   different things you know onto external [TS]

00:36:19   devices one of the downsides of this is [TS]

00:36:22   that the ones that you put in the [TS]

00:36:24   computer you can control the quality of [TS]

00:36:26   and oftentimes they came for free with [TS]

00:36:28   the intel chipset or whatever else that [TS]

00:36:29   you know and you could make pretty good [TS]

00:36:31   things like USB controllers and hdmi [TS]

00:36:34   outputs and everything else in the [TS]

00:36:36   current way of doing things of [TS]

00:36:38   externalizing to all these dongles and [TS]

00:36:40   adapters and stuff [TS]

00:36:41   you are basically forcing people to buy [TS]

00:36:44   something from someone who knows who and [TS]

00:36:48   who knows who's making the thing on the [TS]

00:36:50   inside to get the capability used to get [TS]

00:36:53   with like night reliable built-in stuff [TS]

00:36:55   and some of the many of the things that [TS]

00:36:58   you are adding onto are these like you [TS]

00:37:02   know cheap no-name brands from amazon or [TS]

00:37:04   ebay or whatever and like I I feel like [TS]

00:37:08   it's it's going to be a similar problem [TS]

00:37:10   as like finding a good USB hub which is [TS]

00:37:13   very difficult they good USB hubs do [TS]

00:37:16   exist but you it there so hard to find [TS]

00:37:18   that reliably that they basically don't [TS]

00:37:21   exist and so like USB devices in [TS]

00:37:24   practice once you need more of them than [TS]

00:37:26   what your computer has ports for they [TS]

00:37:28   just become less reliable [TS]

00:37:29   because your hub is probably less [TS]

00:37:31   reliable it's very hard to find what [TS]

00:37:32   isn't or very hard to diagnose the [TS]

00:37:34   problem and what you require fairly [TS]

00:37:38   pricey Apple dongles and we will get to [TS]

00:37:40   this but fairly pricey Apple dongles to [TS]

00:37:43   to do basic things everyone needs like [TS]

00:37:45   you know you're not everyone basic [TS]

00:37:47   things a lot of people need like usba [TS]

00:37:49   adapters or hdmi anything like that [TS]

00:37:51   because the first party ones are so [TS]

00:37:54   expensive many people in reality are [TS]

00:37:57   going to go by third party ones for [TS]

00:37:59   amazon or whatever and they're going to [TS]

00:38:01   be less reliable they're going to be [TS]

00:38:03   less control over there going to be less [TS]

00:38:04   predictable you know in in many cases [TS]

00:38:07   not all but many cases and I feel like [TS]

00:38:10   that's kind of a step backwards in a lot [TS]

00:38:12   of ways like we used to have these nice [TS]

00:38:13   reliable internal ports for all these [TS]

00:38:15   things and while it's great to have the [TS]

00:38:17   versatility of these kind of everything [TS]

00:38:19   ports now and well it's great to save [TS]

00:38:20   the the thickness of them if you want to [TS]

00:38:23   thinner laptop it is definitely a step [TS]

00:38:25   backwards to have to rely on some like [TS]

00:38:27   50 cent chip inside of a God knows who [TS]

00:38:30   made it cable for something that you [TS]

00:38:32   find pretty important to to getting you [TS]

00:38:34   worked out well [TS]

00:38:36   oh ok that's certainly possible but I [TS]

00:38:39   don't know if the sky is really falling [TS]

00:38:41   at Chicken Little I mean he is it was [TS]

00:38:44   well we don't know what the quality of [TS]

00:38:45   these things is going to be and I think [TS]

00:38:46   that in general late USB hub is a good [TS]

00:38:49   counter argument that that I don't have [TS]

00:38:51   a good answer for but in general [TS]

00:38:53   well the USB is built-in though that's [TS]

00:38:54   it that's the USB will be inside the [TS]

00:38:57   thing it's when you externalize pci [TS]

00:38:58   express and say this adapter works by [TS]

00:39:01   pretending it's like a device on the pci [TS]

00:39:03   bus and it has a chip for translating [TS]

00:39:05   the video you know pulling the video off [TS]

00:39:08   and it was that one that like well the [TS]

00:39:09   ipad want like an h.264 encoder sitting [TS]

00:39:13   in their tiny little iOS device and like [TS]

00:39:16   that kind of stuff goes on that's where [TS]

00:39:18   you're moving stuff outside u.s. be [TS]

00:39:19   should be just a matter of everyone [TS]

00:39:21   please update your connectors not be [TS]

00:39:22   those big old things like I see I see a [TS]

00:39:24   light at the end of the tunnel for the [TS]

00:39:25   USB angle but I see the less light for [TS]

00:39:28   things like display that goes even [TS]

00:39:30   something as people mention like [TS]

00:39:31   ethernet which is very common and [TS]

00:39:34   standard and you expect to just work but [TS]

00:39:37   if there has to be a chip in your [TS]

00:39:38   Ethernet adapter then like Marco said [TS]

00:39:40   you are kind of at the mercy of [TS]

00:39:43   the the quality that after the bright [TS]

00:39:46   side is it breaks [TS]

00:39:47   unlike the little chip break on your [TS]

00:39:48   motherboard you just find the adapter so [TS]

00:39:49   there's up up and down sides [TS]

00:39:51   yeah and I'm i don't think that we [TS]

00:39:54   should go and assume that the quality is [TS]

00:39:57   going to be subpar right out of the gate [TS]

00:39:58   and certainly there will be one or two [TS]

00:40:00   above any kind of device one or two [TS]

00:40:03   ethernet adapters wanted to SD card [TS]

00:40:05   readers etcetera that will be crappy but [TS]

00:40:07   I I don't think it's a bit premature to [TS]

00:40:09   just assume that anything outside of the [TS]

00:40:11   case is going to be crap and even if [TS]

00:40:13   there's a glut of things that are crappy [TS]

00:40:15   I mean that's in principle why amazon [TS]

00:40:18   has reviews and why you can ask your [TS]

00:40:21   friends hate does this one work for you [TS]

00:40:23   and hopefully Applewood only carry [TS]

00:40:27   things that they feel are of a decent [TS]

00:40:29   quality even if it doesn't have the [TS]

00:40:31   apple logo on it it's certainly possible [TS]

00:40:33   that this stuff will be crap but I think [TS]

00:40:35   it's way too soon to get worked up about [TS]

00:40:37   Apple will make stuff anyway like if you [TS]

00:40:39   just want the Apple quality ones Apple [TS]

00:40:40   make them and sell them to you for your [TS]

00:40:42   way too much money but there's an [TS]

00:40:44   interesting side effect to that too if [TS]

00:40:45   you noticed the date outsource a lot of [TS]

00:40:47   the current ones to belkin like they [TS]

00:40:49   have outsourced the ethernet belkin i [TS]

00:40:52   think one learning tool yet the do [TS]

00:40:54   lightning that horrible split her that [TS]

00:40:56   lets you charge listen to your lighting [TS]

00:40:58   headphones [TS]

00:40:59   it's the worst thing ever you feel like [TS]

00:41:02   40 bucks for this thing this giant that [TS]

00:41:06   has to lighting ports out one lightning [TS]

00:41:08   port in so that you plug into your [TS]

00:41:10   iphone you have this giant dongle and [TS]

00:41:12   you also have to have the headphone [TS]

00:41:13   dunkel to plug that into the second pic [TS]

00:41:16   why couldn't why couldn't they just have [TS]

00:41:20   it be lightning out and headphone out [TS]

00:41:23   why did that one less another angle and [TS]

00:41:26   is like I wouldn't mind the chips and [TS]

00:41:29   the adapters in the external agent [TS]

00:41:31   external ization of all this of active [TS]

00:41:34   logic less if it was smaller that [TS]

00:41:36   adapter in particular is comically large [TS]

00:41:38   we haven't just like understand you have [TS]

00:41:41   active logic [TS]

00:41:42   ideally it would be like the little you [TS]

00:41:44   know the real lighting the headphone [TS]

00:41:45   adapter was like I didn't even know [TS]

00:41:47   there was a chip in there it's so darn [TS]

00:41:48   small like that's how they should all be [TS]

00:41:50   when it's a giant white brick then it is [TS]

00:41:53   you know that's it makes me feel bad [TS]

00:41:55   about external [TS]

00:41:56   again I assume that stuff will go down [TS]

00:41:57   over time and they'll shrink and they'll [TS]

00:41:58   get better and so on and so forth so [TS]

00:42:00   there is some light at the end of the [TS]

00:42:01   tunnel there but i still do think about [TS]

00:42:04   the pushing of the chips outside of the [TS]

00:42:06   laptop case especially since on a 15 [TS]

00:42:09   inch laptop that's a pretty big case so [TS]

00:42:11   at some point if we can't get the world [TS]

00:42:15   to get on board with putting the ships [TS]

00:42:16   and their devices and we still have to [TS]

00:42:18   have an adapter with a dongle it would [TS]

00:42:20   be nice to maybe move one or two of the [TS]

00:42:23   most often used ones to the side of that [TS]

00:42:25   thing or if you're not gonna do that put [TS]

00:42:27   like three more of those ports on the [TS]

00:42:29   side because there's so much room on the [TS]

00:42:31   15-inch macbook pro things looking kinda [TS]

00:42:34   lonely there with just those two tiny [TS]

00:42:35   little openings response to this week by [TS]

00:42:39   eero visit 0 comments eerr dot-com and [TS]

00:42:42   get overnight shipping at checkout for [TS]

00:42:44   free by using code ATP 0 is basically [TS]

00:42:48   the Wi-Fi router of the future not the [TS]

00:42:50   past [TS]

00:42:51   our homes are coming online of speakers [TS]

00:42:53   thermostats we have light bulbs front [TS]

00:42:55   door lock security cameras all this [TS]

00:42:57   stuff that all has Wi-Fi Wi-Fi is [TS]

00:43:01   probably the technology we depend on the [TS]

00:43:03   most the core of utility of the 21st [TS]

00:43:05   century home now [TS]

00:43:06   Wi-Fi is broken because it doesn't [TS]

00:43:08   really reach your whole house most time [TS]

00:43:10   with your whole apartment most of the [TS]

00:43:11   time because there's walls there's dead [TS]

00:43:14   zones that you know you have one room [TS]

00:43:15   it's too far away from it or whatever [TS]

00:43:17   else 0 is designed to change all this [TS]

00:43:19   they make a single device the small [TS]

00:43:21   elegant box and you can buy any number [TS]

00:43:23   of these to cover your house you know [TS]

00:43:25   you can buy just one but they recommend [TS]

00:43:27   that you buy two or three and here's how [TS]

00:43:29   this works [TS]

00:43:30   you plug one into your internet [TS]

00:43:31   connection you plug the other one or two [TS]

00:43:33   or however many you have just into the [TS]

00:43:35   wall somewhere further away from it and [TS]

00:43:37   they all talk to each other on a private [TS]

00:43:39   mesh network which makes them much [TS]

00:43:40   better than typical range extenders and [TS]

00:43:42   then they create one giant Wi-Fi network [TS]

00:43:46   that just blankets your entire place in [TS]

00:43:48   Wi-Fi and setting this up could not be [TS]

00:43:50   easier normally you know there have been [TS]

00:43:52   solutions that are kind of like this for [TS]

00:43:54   awhile but they've been a pain to set up [TS]

00:43:56   or they would really depend on things [TS]

00:43:58   like range sensors which are very very [TS]

00:43:59   slow here get around this [TS]

00:44:01   it is not like range extenders because [TS]

00:44:03   it has that back-end network that talks [TS]

00:44:04   to it they talk to each other off of the [TS]

00:44:06   regular network so it doesn't clog it up [TS]

00:44:08   and their app makes set up such a breeze [TS]

00:44:11   it is so ridiculously easy to set up [TS]

00:44:13   multiple access points with 0 and then [TS]

00:44:16   when you have multiple broadcast points [TS]

00:44:19   your home gets covered so much more [TS]

00:44:21   effectively than it does you just have [TS]

00:44:23   one rider no matter how many crazy [TS]

00:44:25   antennas that router has on it [TS]

00:44:26   multiple points of Wi-Fi cover your [TS]

00:44:29   house way better and your that makes so [TS]

00:44:31   much other stuff easier they have things [TS]

00:44:33   like parental controls they can update [TS]

00:44:35   their app and add new features all the [TS]

00:44:37   time they do this all the time that [TS]

00:44:38   they've been 12 updates so far since [TS]

00:44:39   launch with many more to come check it [TS]

00:44:42   out today go to erode comments eerr [TS]

00:44:44   dot-com and you can check out you can [TS]

00:44:46   sit overnight shipping and enter code [TS]

00:44:48   ATP to make it free [TS]

00:44:50   so once again go to ero com de ro calm [TS]

00:44:53   for an amazing Wi-Fi setup and use code [TS]

00:44:56   ATP to make overnight shipping free [TS]

00:44:58   thanks a lot to ero for sponsoring our [TS]

00:45:00   show since last show [TS]

00:45:06   Apple has made a very curious move they [TS]

00:45:09   have cut the prices on us bc peripherals [TS]

00:45:12   and we'll put a link in the show notes [TS]

00:45:14   to a post on I more from front of the [TS]

00:45:17   show Rene Ritchie that breaks down kind [TS]

00:45:19   of the the price changes that have [TS]

00:45:20   happened and is so as a couple of [TS]

00:45:23   examples the USBC to traditional USBC [TS]

00:45:26   went from nineteen dollars to nine [TS]

00:45:28   dollars the USBC the lightning cable [TS]

00:45:31   went from $25 to $19 etc etc but what's [TS]

00:45:36   particularly interesting about this is [TS]

00:45:39   that the LG display's the 4k and 5k [TS]

00:45:43   displays are also getting discounted I [TS]

00:45:46   don't recall how much the 5k was before [TS]

00:45:48   did was like 13 it was 1300 you and now [TS]

00:45:51   it's 974 dollars still not available for [TS]

00:45:54   order quite yet but it's going to be an [TS]

00:45:56   understudy for dollars until the end of [TS]

00:45:58   the year and that's that's how long all [TS]

00:45:59   of these are all these discounts will be [TS]

00:46:02   going on that's a really interesting [TS]

00:46:05   move and you know there's lately I feel [TS]

00:46:09   like there's a pessimistic an optimistic [TS]

00:46:11   take on this the optimistic take is [TS]

00:46:14   Apple's listening and they're responding [TS]

00:46:16   and they're trying to make [TS]

00:46:18   all of our grumbling go well maybe not [TS]

00:46:21   go away but make it easier on us for [TS]

00:46:24   those of us who are professionals or [TS]

00:46:26   think we're professionals and need all [TS]

00:46:29   bunch of dongles and so on the plus side [TS]

00:46:32   apples listening it and they're trying [TS]

00:46:34   they're trying to react [TS]

00:46:36   that's one way of looking at it and I'm [TS]

00:46:38   assuming that you guys will have [TS]

00:46:39   alternative ways of looking at it [TS]

00:46:42   well it's I think it's a damage control [TS]

00:46:44   to some degree I think it's pretty clear [TS]

00:46:46   that that Apple you know release these [TS]

00:46:49   new macbook pros i think the the [TS]

00:46:51   reaction to the new macbook pros has [TS]

00:46:55   been less positive that Apple expected i [TS]

00:46:57   think it's pretty safe to say and you [TS]

00:46:59   can read between the lines on that and i [TS]

00:47:01   think phil even came just about to [TS]

00:47:03   saying that in some interview somewhere [TS]

00:47:05   basically the reaction has been you know [TS]

00:47:09   not as positive they wanted and so [TS]

00:47:10   they're trying to do damage control and [TS]

00:47:12   that's what you know they begin their [TS]

00:47:13   statements basically by saying how well [TS]

00:47:15   this macbook pro is selling that's great [TS]

00:47:18   and all these qualifiers like it's the [TS]

00:47:20   best-selling pro laptop that we've ever [TS]

00:47:23   had on our website and you know all [TS]

00:47:25   these qualifiers everything but [TS]

00:47:26   obviously it's all it's not going to be [TS]

00:47:28   a flop or anything but they're gonna [TS]

00:47:30   want to criticism for it so this is [TS]

00:47:32   obvious damage control and I think you [TS]

00:47:34   know I think groupers tip their gruesome [TS]

00:47:35   note about I think I Twitter somewhere [TS]

00:47:38   was that you know he thinks maybe they [TS]

00:47:40   don't want it to appear like a [TS]

00:47:42   money-grab like the reason they moved to [TS]

00:47:44   us bc they don't want to appear like it [TS]

00:47:46   was purely for profit reasons to sell a [TS]

00:47:48   bunch of adapters and stuff and I [TS]

00:47:50   believe that I i think you know I'm sure [TS]

00:47:54   Apple is not sorry that they're gonna [TS]

00:47:56   make a lot more money from him after [TS]

00:47:58   stuff than before I think that's a happy [TS]

00:48:00   side effect [TS]

00:48:01   I don't think that was the primary [TS]

00:48:02   reason why they did it in the primary [TS]

00:48:04   reason I did it was to make the laptop [TS]

00:48:06   thinner lighter and simpler save on [TS]

00:48:07   component costs in terms of the laptop [TS]

00:48:08   make it easier to engineer but having to [TS]

00:48:10   report on the outside easier service [TS]

00:48:12   fewer things that will die or breaker or [TS]

00:48:14   have things like a number or you know [TS]

00:48:16   otherwise need warranty service and then [TS]

00:48:18   finally of course because they believe [TS]

00:48:20   in the future whatever I believe those [TS]

00:48:22   are all reasons why they made only USBC [TS]

00:48:24   plus a couple headphone jacks why they [TS]

00:48:27   made those things all the standard ports [TS]

00:48:29   and nothing else however you [TS]

00:48:32   could very easily look at this and you [TS]

00:48:33   could say well you know they did this [TS]

00:48:35   just to make money on adapters so i [TS]

00:48:37   think that was that was probably one of [TS]

00:48:41   the things they were trying to combat [TS]

00:48:42   with this i think they were also just [TS]

00:48:44   trying to apologize maybe the power [TS]

00:48:48   users in in a very small and relatively [TS]

00:48:51   inexpensive inexpensive way that doesn't [TS]

00:48:53   mean any fault about anything in public [TS]

00:48:54   it's basically it it's a PR feel good [TS]

00:48:57   move similar to the free bumper case for [TS]

00:48:59   the iphone 4 with antennagate like it's [TS]

00:49:01   a it's a PR like make you feel better [TS]

00:49:04   and make make it look like we're not [TS]

00:49:06   just being greedy for adapter prices [TS]

00:49:08   that being said these dongles and stuff [TS]

00:49:10   are still very expensive like they're [TS]

00:49:12   still Apple prices but there's still [TS]

00:49:14   more expensive than they need to be and [TS]

00:49:15   I think it's weird that the price cuts [TS]

00:49:18   are temporary like that like the fact [TS]

00:49:20   that it only runs to the end of the year [TS]

00:49:22   like if they really wanted it to not [TS]

00:49:24   like it was about dongle profits they [TS]

00:49:27   should have made the price cuts [TS]

00:49:28   permanent because these price cuts are [TS]

00:49:30   not that they don't appear to be [TS]

00:49:32   unsustainable like like knowing roughly [TS]

00:49:35   what margins tend to be a retail things [TS]

00:49:37   like this and and knowing that most of [TS]

00:49:39   these probably have very few parts of [TS]

00:49:40   them are probably very inexpensive and [TS]

00:49:42   probably very profitable to begin with [TS]

00:49:44   it wouldn't surprise me if most of these [TS]

00:49:46   had at least a fifty percent margin and [TS]

00:49:48   probably a larger one and they've cut [TS]

00:49:50   the prices by like you know twenty five [TS]

00:49:52   fifty percent basically so I i would be [TS]

00:49:55   very very surprised if any of these [TS]

00:49:57   things we're actually losing money at [TS]

00:49:59   the current prices that's not [TS]

00:50:00   sustainable by Apple standards because [TS]

00:50:02   they need forty percent margin on [TS]

00:50:03   everything i agree that the margins [TS]

00:50:05   probably weigh over forty percent for [TS]

00:50:06   accessories and they cut them down to i [TS]

00:50:08   think is below forty percent although i [TS]

00:50:11   think they should maybe revisit that [TS]

00:50:12   because if they if they can't make them [TS]

00:50:14   like if they're getting fifty percent [TS]

00:50:16   margin on these things they're spending [TS]

00:50:18   perhaps too much money making them what [TS]

00:50:20   I'm saying they should make a crappier [TS]

00:50:21   but it's been fifty percent that was [TS]

00:50:23   being that was a conservative estimate [TS]

00:50:24   i'm guessing the margins are more like [TS]

00:50:26   eighty percent it's there a lot on this [TS]

00:50:28   kind of stuff usually they they do make [TS]

00:50:30   like all their stuff they make their [TS]

00:50:32   even their little adapters very [TS]

00:50:34   carefully [TS]

00:50:35   not so much in terms of reliability as a [TS]

00:50:37   million people who sent us pictures [TS]

00:50:38   they're totally destroyed [TS]

00:50:39   thanks mom but in terms of the [TS]

00:50:40   tolerances and industrials on their [TS]

00:50:43   their precision engine [TS]

00:50:45   your products there's not a lot of [TS]

00:50:47   plastic mould lines on them all the [TS]

00:50:50   edges are straight and crisp they look [TS]

00:50:53   like little pieces of art which also [TS]

00:50:55   makes them bad adapters in many cases [TS]

00:50:56   but understand like its it costs money [TS]

00:50:58   to do that and and they come in a little [TS]

00:51:01   and the reason I know this is i bought a [TS]

00:51:02   bunch of them i get back to temporary [TS]

00:51:04   pricing a second they come in little [TS]

00:51:06   rectangular boxes that are beautiful [TS]

00:51:08   origami folded and you know they're just [TS]

00:51:10   they're they're not just like a little [TS]

00:51:13   plastic bags you get like with amazon [TS]

00:51:14   basics and the frustration free [TS]

00:51:16   packaging or just a cable thrown in [TS]

00:51:17   there right and you know and I guess I [TS]

00:51:19   did in terms of how they perform as [TS]

00:51:21   actual adapters I don't think they're [TS]

00:51:22   actually better than the other ones but [TS]

00:51:24   I do see that where some of the money is [TS]

00:51:26   spent on them so i think they would in [TS]

00:51:28   general they would be better off make [TS]

00:51:31   finding a way to manufacture their [TS]

00:51:33   adapters for less money giving up son [TS]

00:51:36   some of the beauty and elegance and at [TS]

00:51:37   the same time making them more reliable [TS]

00:51:39   adapters and the reason I bought a bunch [TS]

00:51:40   of them is what you're getting at the [TS]

00:51:41   temporary pricing it's you know if you [TS]

00:51:43   want a pessimistic take this is what I [TS]

00:51:45   thought when I thought oh it's nice [TS]

00:51:46   they're doing something to you know it'd [TS]

00:51:48   be nice to all those people who are like [TS]

00:51:49   posting horror stories that i bought in [TS]

00:51:51   the macbook pro and also $300 of adapter [TS]

00:51:53   so i could use the damn thing right [TS]

00:51:55   that's better look for apple so like now [TS]

00:51:57   you don't have to spend $150 of adapters [TS]

00:51:59   but only until the end of the year so [TS]

00:52:01   what happens in the year by the end of [TS]

00:52:03   the year has everyone updated all their [TS]

00:52:05   offices to have connectors that don't [TS]

00:52:07   require these dongles know they just go [TS]

00:52:09   back to the old price and the uprising [TS]

00:52:10   which was really really expensive [TS]

00:52:12   especially for some of the simpler [TS]

00:52:13   adapters the reason I bought I bought [TS]

00:52:15   those uh the USBC to plan all the USBA [TS]

00:52:18   because that's going to I don't have a [TS]

00:52:20   computer with ports that require that i [TS]

00:52:22   got my appletv i suppose i could plug it [TS]

00:52:24   into what it would do nothing but [TS]

00:52:27   someday i will have a computer that does [TS]

00:52:28   that and they were half off basically [TS]

00:52:30   like nineteen dollars to nine dollars so [TS]

00:52:32   i bought two of them because i'm going [TS]

00:52:34   to use them and nine dollars is a price [TS]

00:52:37   i will pay for that little adapter [TS]

00:52:39   well i think twenty dollars that adapter [TS]

00:52:41   hell no i will not pay 2 i'll go to [TS]

00:52:43   monitor price and find whatever that you [TS]

00:52:45   know and you know amazonbasics mentioned [TS]

00:52:47   on I'll find a cheaper one because it's [TS]

00:52:49   not worth that much my twenty dollars [TS]

00:52:51   for us bc the USB adapter know so i [TS]

00:52:55   bought them because they were temporary [TS]

00:52:57   maybe their system is working to make [TS]

00:52:59   adding some urgency or whatever but it [TS]

00:53:00   would be much nicer if they didn't see [TS]

00:53:02   this as a PR thing that needs to be [TS]

00:53:05   addressed in the short term but rather [TS]

00:53:07   as a long-term issue because I think [TS]

00:53:10   they're going to be selling dongles for [TS]

00:53:11   a long time and that's going to be [TS]

00:53:12   factored into the price of people on [TS]

00:53:14   your laptop especially the next laptop [TS]

00:53:16   that people by after this one because [TS]

00:53:18   they'll know all when you buy an apple [TS]

00:53:19   laptop also reserve a hundred and X [TS]

00:53:21   dollars for dongles maybe more [TS]

00:53:24   and the price is going to go right back [TS]

00:53:25   up it's it's not a good [TS]

00:53:28   it's not a good situation i mean i know [TS]

00:53:29   they kind of get away with in the iOS [TS]

00:53:31   devices where it's like about the island [TS]

00:53:33   so I suppose you want the one with lots [TS]

00:53:34   of memory was going to a couple hundred [TS]

00:53:35   bucks and you want applecare and then [TS]

00:53:36   you want the front case in the back [TS]

00:53:37   casing your ipad like it adds up really [TS]

00:53:39   fast but for some reason and maybe this [TS]

00:53:42   is illogical the adapter seem like you [TS]

00:53:45   know relatively more expensive and maybe [TS]

00:53:48   it's because I don't see the little [TS]

00:53:49   chips in there and don't understand how [TS]

00:53:51   expensive it is to get them all [TS]

00:53:52   integrated into that but this is a [TS]

00:53:54   problem of apples on making NYC third [TS]

00:53:56   party ones that can come in for less [TS]

00:53:58   especially for the simpler adapters [TS]

00:53:59   makes you think the Apple is choosing [TS]

00:54:02   the wrong trade-offs when it comes to [TS]

00:54:04   making its own adapters they're too [TS]

00:54:05   expensive too precious and not sturdy [TS]

00:54:09   enough it's funny you say that you went [TS]

00:54:12   and pick some of these up because I my [TS]

00:54:15   to-do list this week which i haven't had [TS]

00:54:16   time for is I wanted to go to the apple [TS]

00:54:20   store and pick up a handful of these [TS]

00:54:22   adapters because i have the exact same [TS]

00:54:24   thought I probably won't have a macbook [TS]

00:54:27   pro or a mac that uses us pc for at [TS]

00:54:30   least a year or two but but that time [TS]

00:54:32   will come so why not just pick up a few [TS]

00:54:34   of these and I intend to do that that [TS]

00:54:37   very thing sometime soon [TS]

00:54:39   the reason i'm laughing is that I did [TS]

00:54:42   that very often it was so none of the [TS]

00:54:46   three of us have one of the macbook pros [TS]

00:54:48   or have ordered one or likely are [TS]

00:54:50   planning to buy will you break it you [TS]

00:54:51   briefly ordered one I did and he flipped [TS]

00:54:54   over and and and i ordered it with two [TS]

00:54:57   adapters a USBC day and a see the [TS]

00:55:01   lightning [TS]

00:55:01   those both shift and arrive before I [TS]

00:55:03   can't even cancel the laptop so and I'm [TS]

00:55:06   like well I could return them but well [TS]

00:55:07   i'm going to use them anyway and then [TS]

00:55:09   the price drop was announced and they [TS]

00:55:10   credited me to read the difference like [TS]

00:55:12   okay that's [TS]

00:55:12   even better and so I went well i bought [TS]

00:55:14   i now have to see to a adapters [TS]

00:55:17   the light.the see lightning gigabit [TS]

00:55:19   ethernet the sandisk card reader and the [TS]

00:55:22   Thunderbolt 2 adapter because i have [TS]

00:55:23   have an external sound device that I [TS]

00:55:25   that we recorded TP @ WC with its [TS]

00:55:28   vulnerable and I i think all the exact [TS]

00:55:30   same calculations as you guys it's like [TS]

00:55:32   well I'm gonna need these eventually and [TS]

00:55:35   they're probably not going to get [TS]

00:55:36   cheaper over time like this its public [TS]

00:55:39   i'm going to be these suit probably [TS]

00:55:42   within the next two years i will i will [TS]

00:55:44   need these adapters and think like [TS]

00:55:46   things like the see the lightning cable [TS]

00:55:48   that's just the new lightning cable i [TS]

00:55:50   need tons of lightning cables they're [TS]

00:55:52   all over the place like I simply have to [TS]

00:55:54   pick up one of these at whatever it is [TS]

00:55:56   nineteen dollars of 25 to get that was a [TS]

00:55:58   small price drop on that one but like [TS]

00:55:59   well I'm gonna need these supplies will [TS]

00:56:01   get its people you should make like a [TS]

00:56:03   paper kraft mac book pro and plug all [TS]

00:56:05   your dog into it [TS]

00:56:07   yeah yeah i cant pretend computer [TS]

00:56:10   yeah but I again I do admit though I [TS]

00:56:13   agree John that it is very strange [TS]

00:56:14   these price drops are only temporary and [TS]

00:56:17   the dogs because again like they're [TS]

00:56:18   still making them like monoprice level [TS]

00:56:20   pricing or anything like they're still [TS]

00:56:21   there still expensive compared to the [TS]

00:56:23   no-name ones and that's fine there they [TS]

00:56:26   are better they dropping down to the [TS]

00:56:27   same price as good quality third-party [TS]

00:56:30   peripherals like that's only did it's [TS]

00:56:31   not like it's a super-duper bargains [TS]

00:56:33   just like oh this is the price i would [TS]

00:56:34   expect to see if I found whatever the [TS]

00:56:36   best third-party one is out there a [TS]

00:56:38   similar price to this and like they [TS]

00:56:39   botch the pr on this too because they [TS]

00:56:42   did the right thing in credited [TS]

00:56:43   everybody but the way we found that out [TS]

00:56:46   was like other dropping prices but what [TS]

00:56:48   about the people who already ordered [TS]

00:56:49   them and then we had to wait for people [TS]

00:56:50   to start getting credit that's got to be [TS]

00:56:51   part of your message [TS]

00:56:52   happy we've lowered all the prices and [TS]

00:56:55   by the way if you bought one of the past [TS]

00:56:56   x days we're going to credit you which [TS]

00:56:58   they obviously did like they did the [TS]

00:56:59   right thing like when you're gonna do [TS]

00:57:02   the right thing Apple tell us about it [TS]

00:57:03   because it's good PR like and don't [TS]

00:57:05   leave people wondering like oh now I [TS]

00:57:07   feel bad that i bought them there but [TS]

00:57:09   what happened to the poor suckers who [TS]

00:57:10   bought them or whatever and you know we [TS]

00:57:11   found out a couple hours a day later [TS]

00:57:13   that will do the right thing but why [TS]

00:57:14   like that was another drop the ball [TS]

00:57:17   yeah but I [TS]

00:57:19   but regardless this is a good move i [TS]

00:57:22   wish they would make the price cuts [TS]

00:57:24   permanent they might still do that but [TS]

00:57:26   they haven't they said to fill in the [TS]

00:57:27   year they could change their minds or [TS]

00:57:29   they could cut the prices later you know [TS]

00:57:31   after at some period of time again but [TS]

00:57:33   and the end of the only difficulty [TS]

00:57:35   finding about the end of the year thing [TS]

00:57:36   is that I I was honestly tempted to [TS]

00:57:38   order the LG Display to that the big [TS]

00:57:40   five years but because like well that is [TS]

00:57:43   only going to be available for ordering [TS]

00:57:45   at this [TS]

00:57:45   $300 discount for a couple of weeks [TS]

00:57:49   maybe because you can even order one yet [TS]

00:57:51   the website currently says it will [TS]

00:57:52   become available in december and the [TS]

00:57:54   price drop is still the end of the year [TS]

00:57:55   so you're gonna have like a few weeks in [TS]

00:57:58   december when you can actually order [TS]

00:57:59   this thing to disk but who knows when it [TS]

00:58:01   would actually ship and arrive i'm [TS]

00:58:04   thinking like well will there ever be a [TS]

00:58:06   time like if they make a new mac pro [TS]

00:58:08   next year I'm gonna want one of those [TS]

00:58:10   displays if it's still in a standalone [TS]

00:58:12   micro but I'm not confident enough that [TS]

00:58:14   it will be a standalone mac pro that [TS]

00:58:17   will exist that will be out next year to [TS]

00:58:19   actually order one of these things like [TS]

00:58:20   six months ahead of time you just hooked [TS]

00:58:22   up to your paragraph macbook pro and [TS]

00:58:24   you'll have a complete set up your [TS]

00:58:26   computer part you'll have the dongles [TS]

00:58:28   you have the screen will be beautiful [TS]

00:58:29   excuse your iPad's to pretend touch bar [TS]

00:58:32   yeah right we'll have the whole computer [TS]

00:58:34   except the screen keyboard and trackpad [TS]

00:58:36   and the cpu in the GPO it's yeah it's [TS]

00:58:39   gonna be after what once we get to the [TS]

00:58:41   other side you know we're in these like [TS]

00:58:43   heavy transitional arrows you know first [TS]

00:58:45   we went retina and SSD right and we [TS]

00:58:48   still have not finished those transition [TS]

00:58:51   it's super close but we still have not [TS]

00:58:54   completed those two large transitions [TS]

00:58:56   completely you can still go out and buy [TS]

00:58:58   not even just one but many Mac models [TS]

00:59:02   that either don't have retina don't have [TS]

00:59:04   ssds by default or even both which is [TS]

00:59:07   embarrassing but those transitions are [TS]

00:59:11   almost done once you're past it once you [TS]

00:59:14   have a Retina computer with a net with [TS]

00:59:16   all SSD storage not fusion drive all SSD [TS]

00:59:18   storage it is a thing of beauty it is [TS]

00:59:21   amazing it's such a good computer from [TS]

00:59:23   that point forward and USBC is going to [TS]

00:59:25   the same thing for ports it's like we [TS]

00:59:26   have this kind of cumbersome annoying [TS]

00:59:29   transition that's going to break a lot [TS]

00:59:31   of things like all [TS]

00:59:32   monitors that you won't be able to use [TS]

00:59:33   any more new like that it's putting up [TS]

00:59:35   this big barrier changing all the ports [TS]

00:59:36   requiring this dongle sale and [TS]

00:59:38   everything else but once we get to that [TS]

00:59:42   promise land of all USB seaports and all [TS]

00:59:46   or mostly USBC peripherals it's going to [TS]

00:59:48   be really nice but you and the benefits [TS]

00:59:51   of the mapper like being able to charge [TS]

00:59:52   it on both sides like that's cool like [TS]

00:59:54   that that's a useful thing it's going to [TS]

00:59:56   be a really nice road when we get there [TS]

00:59:58   but the transition is going to be [TS]

00:59:58   but the transition is going to be [TS]

01:00:00   uncomfortable just like all these other [TS]

01:00:01   ones have been are you still have our [TS]

01:00:03   new thing in our future world will be [TS]

01:00:04   confusion about the USBC the lightning [TS]

01:00:08   cable which end is which because they [TS]

01:00:10   are there different sizes and you can [TS]

01:00:12   tell if you look at them but if you're [TS]

01:00:13   not paying attention and you just pick [TS]

01:00:15   the skinny little cable up the two [TS]

01:00:16   skinny lens and we don't have the [TS]

01:00:18   problem of like usba where you keep [TS]

01:00:20   flipping it over three times to get in [TS]

01:00:21   right because it bidirectional but you [TS]

01:00:24   might find yourself sticking the [TS]

01:00:25   Lightning plug into the side of your [TS]

01:00:26   macbook pro maybe just once or twice [TS]

01:00:28   before you realize what's going on [TS]

01:00:31   we respond to this week by hover and the [TS]

01:00:34   upcoming dot blog TLD go to hover com [TS]

01:00:37   /name my blog to learn more and you can [TS]

01:00:40   use code dongle sale this week for ten [TS]

01:00:42   percent off any new domain purchases [TS]

01:00:44   online publishing platform like [TS]

01:00:46   wordpress tumblr and medium there's [TS]

01:00:48   never been a better time to have a blog [TS]

01:00:51   well actually the better time to have a [TS]

01:00:53   blog is going to be monday November 21st [TS]

01:00:55   that's in a couple of weeks at this time [TS]

01:00:58   remember 21st dot blog domain names will [TS]

01:01:00   become available for registration of [TS]

01:01:02   hover and because dot blog is a new [TS]

01:01:04   top-level domain name you got a really [TS]

01:01:06   good chance of finding your first choice [TS]

01:01:08   of a unique relevant and memorable name [TS]

01:01:10   for your blog to be first in line go to [TS]

01:01:12   hover dot-com /name my blog that's hover [TS]

01:01:16   com /name my blog to be notified the [TS]

01:01:18   moment that dot log domains become [TS]

01:01:20   available for registration and of course [TS]

01:01:22   all dot blog domains will come with the [TS]

01:01:24   great things you'd expect from hover [TS]

01:01:25   like free who is privacy no heavy-handed [TS]

01:01:28   upselling and their signature no wait no [TS]

01:01:30   hold no transfer phone support if you [TS]

01:01:32   ever need it again go to hover dot-com [TS]

01:01:34   /name my blog for the new dot blog [TS]

01:01:37   domain extension and of course however [TS]

01:01:39   is there for all your domain name needs [TS]

01:01:41   and you can use code dungal sale for ten [TS]

01:01:43   percent off thats dongle sale for ten [TS]

01:01:45   percent off hover domain names for your [TS]

01:01:48   ideas [TS]

01:01:52   we had talked I think briefly last week [TS]

01:01:56   and then we ended up shelving it so we [TS]

01:01:58   could discuss this week about the [TS]

01:02:01   thought of arm processors on the mac and [TS]

01:02:04   i think i might have brought this up [TS]

01:02:06   because i was saying that you know if [TS]

01:02:09   you look at a lot of the angst that's [TS]

01:02:13   been floating around the community with [TS]

01:02:15   regards to the macbook pro and the mac [TS]

01:02:17   pro there is a way that you can blame a [TS]

01:02:21   lot of these troubles on intel not to [TS]

01:02:22   say that Apple's blameless by any [TS]

01:02:24   stretch of the imagination but you can [TS]

01:02:25   paint a picture in which Intel holds a [TS]

01:02:29   lot of the blame and it's in Apple's [TS]

01:02:32   it'sit's apples modus operandi to [TS]

01:02:35   control everything han and so it [TS]

01:02:37   controls the chips on the iOS lines [TS]

01:02:41   why wouldn't it make sense for them to [TS]

01:02:43   try to control the chip on the macbook [TS]

01:02:46   pro a really just the mac lines and so [TS]

01:02:49   that makes you think well why wouldn't [TS]

01:02:51   they use an ARM chip like they have in [TS]

01:02:53   the iOS lines and throw that on its [TS]

01:02:56   presumably going to be very low power [TS]

01:02:59   and you know they're the modern iOS [TS]

01:03:03   devices are nearly as fast as modern max [TS]

01:03:06   and so it seems on paper to make sense [TS]

01:03:11   why wouldn't they give it a shot [TS]

01:03:14   I mean the transition would stink but [TS]

01:03:16   we've already done this once with the [TS]

01:03:17   transition from powerpc and intel and [TS]

01:03:20   fat binary and blah blah [TS]

01:03:21   why not try again but twice right so why [TS]

01:03:24   not try to get what we need we need like [TS]

01:03:26   an old Mac sound effect whatever john [TS]

01:03:28   schools are some like it's something [TS]

01:03:30   that came came across the mac before [TS]

01:03:32   2000 for powerpc transition was awesome [TS]

01:03:35   graphing calculator was a miracle we [TS]

01:03:37   could use that we can use to startup [TS]

01:03:39   chime since it's not a thing anymore [TS]

01:03:40   there you go so we discuss his arm in [TS]

01:03:43   the mac thing so many times they're [TS]

01:03:44   probably gonna say all the same things [TS]

01:03:45   here but the reason that would think it [TS]

01:03:47   was worth bringing up again the reason [TS]

01:03:48   we related to the show is because like [TS]

01:03:50   things change [TS]

01:03:51   it's surprisingly quickly in the world [TS]

01:03:53   of arm CPUs it just like to briefly [TS]

01:03:55   summarize all the things we've said in [TS]

01:03:56   the past x86 is important for windows [TS]

01:03:59   compatibility how important is that [TS]

01:04:00   still but it is a thing [TS]

01:04:02   why would Apple spend money producing [TS]

01:04:06   arm chips for the Mac because the Mac [TS]

01:04:08   doesn't sell enough volume to be worth [TS]

01:04:10   creating your own chips whereas the iOS [TS]

01:04:12   chips do and that leads to okay well all [TS]

01:04:14   you gotta do is wait until you can do [TS]

01:04:17   the investment design your own fancy arm [TS]

01:04:19   chip that you use in your iOS devices [TS]

01:04:21   and basically use that same chip or the [TS]

01:04:24   same architecture maybe with more cores [TS]

01:04:25   and more fancy basically like the work [TS]

01:04:27   you did for your iOS devices transfers [TS]

01:04:29   directly to the mac and then you solve [TS]

01:04:31   the investment problem because I go I'm [TS]

01:04:33   doing this work anyway for the next [TS]

01:04:34   iphone doesn't cost that much more to [TS]

01:04:36   make it a bigger more powerful version [TS]

01:04:39   of it and throw it in to a macbook thing [TS]

01:04:41   it solves the problem of relying on [TS]

01:04:43   intel like AC was going to business been [TS]

01:04:45   a bad run lately with delays and [TS]

01:04:47   everything like that Apple's the master [TS]

01:04:49   of its own destiny and you just have the [TS]

01:04:52   x86 compatibility stuff to deal with and [TS]

01:04:54   the reason i think it's worth revisiting [TS]

01:04:56   again it's because just one year since [TS]

01:04:58   last time we probably discussed it [TS]

01:05:00   the chip that's in the latest iPhones is [TS]

01:05:03   I think faster than some macs and its [TS]

01:05:06   clock lower and in most cases and like I [TS]

01:05:10   think we're kind of at that [TS]

01:05:11   not quite at the point of getting close [TS]

01:05:12   to the point where the work they do for [TS]

01:05:15   the iphone cpu is directly transferable [TS]

01:05:18   to the mac in terms of you know what [TS]

01:05:21   kind of performance could you get out of [TS]

01:05:22   it and you know with you know making a [TS]

01:05:24   bigger version clocking at higher maybe [TS]

01:05:27   putting in a couple more cores I think [TS]

01:05:29   we're there for the low and Max and if [TS]

01:05:31   they don't even make any high-end [TS]

01:05:31   maximum or maybe doesn't matter so it [TS]

01:05:34   you know as this equation keeps changing [TS]

01:05:36   as we depressingly look at the Geekbench [TS]

01:05:38   scores for the latest phone and [TS]

01:05:40   comparison to what ever Mac were sitting [TS]

01:05:41   in front of and go what what is going on [TS]

01:05:43   here [TS]

01:05:44   you know the world is upside down the [TS]

01:05:48   the balance of all those factors are [TS]

01:05:49   discussed that Apple have to be changing [TS]

01:05:52   it really depends on the weight you give [TS]

01:05:55   to them to decide is this the go or [TS]

01:05:57   no-go moment and again we all just [TS]

01:05:59   assume that Apple has you know has [TS]

01:06:02   either been working on or understand the [TS]

01:06:04   challenges of converting mac OS to arm [TS]

01:06:08   if it hasn't done so already but like [TS]

01:06:11   especially with integration of the armed [TS]

01:06:13   ship for the touch ID the viability [TS]

01:06:16   and desirability of an arm-based mac to [TS]

01:06:19   both Apple and consumers only increases [TS]

01:06:21   over time and I feel like this has to [TS]

01:06:23   come to head eventually unless Intel [TS]

01:06:25   gets back in gear and there's another to [TS]

01:06:28   process levels ahead of everybody else [TS]

01:06:30   and I guess the wild-card is that 3x [TS]

01:06:33   points stuff which I don't know if it's [TS]

01:06:35   like proprietary in any way or tied to [TS]

01:06:38   Intel in any specific way but that could [TS]

01:06:40   there are many ways it at the Intel [TS]

01:06:42   could ensure that it keeps apples [TS]

01:06:44   business but especially with this recent [TS]

01:06:46   delay and the new macbooks and looking [TS]

01:06:49   at the scores for the new iphones i'm in [TS]

01:06:52   my mind anyway things are shifting much [TS]

01:06:54   more towards the possibility of our max [TS]

01:06:56   in the future than I would have thought [TS]

01:06:58   you just the year ago I completely agree [TS]

01:07:01   with you and you know it's worth noting [TS]

01:07:02   as I have in the past that to switch to [TS]

01:07:06   arm would incur some pretty significant [TS]

01:07:09   costs for a lot of developers which [TS]

01:07:12   admittedly are very very very small part [TS]

01:07:14   of the market but you know doing [TS]

01:07:16   virtualization on an intel box for [TS]

01:07:19   windows which is really now only running [TS]

01:07:23   on intel again that's easier than trying [TS]

01:07:26   to do some sort of you know [TS]

01:07:28   cross-compilation from arm to xat [TS]

01:07:30   certain I'm sorry from x86 to arm so if [TS]

01:07:34   old me you know though when the meeting [TS]

01:07:37   was still writing code and windows which [TS]

01:07:39   actually happened earlier today but we'd [TS]

01:07:41   leave that aside the one told me that [TS]

01:07:43   was doing it professionally 40 plus [TS]

01:07:45   hours a week i would probably have to go [TS]

01:07:47   back to a pc because presumably it would [TS]

01:07:50   be just awful to have to cross compiler [TS]

01:07:53   really what's the term I'm looking [TS]

01:07:54   forward to cross-compile emulate the [TS]

01:07:56   really emulate is what i'm looking for [TS]

01:07:58   to emulate x86 on top of armed me maybe [TS]

01:08:01   it would be quick but I would assume [TS]

01:08:02   that it would not and you know as we [TS]

01:08:05   talk about the past I remember even as a [TS]

01:08:07   not mac person i remember hearing about [TS]

01:08:10   the no pc on a daughter board that some [TS]

01:08:12   people plugged into their max so they [TS]

01:08:14   could run windows on them and so they're [TS]

01:08:17   definitely cost to this is costing [TS]

01:08:19   software pain you know you would have to [TS]

01:08:21   have some sort of emulation layer for [TS]

01:08:23   x86 or Leo was the [TS]

01:08:26   was the thing they did for pot the [TS]

01:08:28   powerpc on top of Intel was named that [TS]

01:08:30   represent a rosetta thank you [TS]

01:08:32   I've got to solution for you Casey yeah [TS]

01:08:35   it's a dongle and inside it is around [TS]

01:08:36   haha that's not what I mean you just [TS]

01:08:39   mentioned basically a pci card it was I [TS]

01:08:41   think it was a new but actually yeah [TS]

01:08:43   right like you could fairly easily put a [TS]

01:08:47   reasonably powerful x86 computer inside [TS]

01:08:49   a dongle connected to a thunderbolt [TS]

01:08:51   three board and the only people who have [TS]

01:08:52   to have that Donald other people who [TS]

01:08:54   need to do that at this [TS]

01:08:55   I mean it's not just that it's like also [TS]

01:08:57   people who wanted you know use people [TS]

01:08:59   want to run software on there if you [TS]

01:09:00   just want to run like Iran does it work [TS]

01:09:03   recently which is depressing docker does [TS]

01:09:05   not run on my mac at work is too old [TS]

01:09:07   because it's all I've divisor stuff or [TS]

01:09:09   whatever but anyway doctor is not gonna [TS]

01:09:11   run if your doctor for deploying on and [TS]

01:09:13   on x86 based services not going to run [TS]

01:09:15   our mac and so I don't need to get the [TS]

01:09:17   dongle to have fair enough i didn't [TS]

01:09:19   think that way also doing a quick search [TS]

01:09:22   it looks like the first time that we [TS]

01:09:24   spoke about this that I could quickly [TS]

01:09:26   find was episode 35 almost exactly three [TS]

01:09:30   years ago on october 18 of 2013 where we [TS]

01:09:34   discussed where is it how touch ID could [TS]

01:09:37   be used in max haha and whether our [TS]

01:09:39   macbooks would be worth the transition [TS]

01:09:40   costs so does that make this follow-up [TS]

01:09:42   crossover in topic splitter now when we [TS]

01:09:46   talk about the peripheral price cuts [TS]

01:09:47   everything the chatroom wants to tell us [TS]

01:09:49   all that Thunderbolt is an intel thing [TS]

01:09:50   like all things are solvable with money [TS]

01:09:52   though it's really believe this like [TS]

01:09:53   it's like we talked about last week [TS]

01:09:55   Apple could make x86 chips and get off [TS]

01:09:58   the Intel bandwagon and you know there's [TS]

01:10:01   there's lots of possibilities here and [TS]

01:10:02   involving money changing hands and [TS]

01:10:05   licensing deals and so on and so forth [TS]

01:10:06   and another thing that factors into this [TS]

01:10:08   i forgot to mention in the whole summary [TS]

01:10:10   is that for a long time [TS]

01:10:12   intel has had this massive advantage [TS]

01:10:14   they were on the the new process size [TS]

01:10:16   before everybody else sometimes like a [TS]

01:10:18   year or more before everybody else so [TS]

01:10:21   everything they made had just like a [TS]

01:10:22   built-in advantage of be of you being [TS]

01:10:25   lower power and smaller you know and [TS]

01:10:27   like they they were first whatever the [TS]

01:10:30   the process sizes and lately I don't [TS]

01:10:33   have been seeing lots of stories and [TS]

01:10:35   collecting on the show notes then [TS]

01:10:36   eventually deleting them are aging them [TS]

01:10:37   off lots of stuff about like well [TS]

01:10:39   intel is not going to be first to 10 [TS]

01:10:41   nanometers or intel already is in first [TS]

01:10:43   10 nanometers like no those are just [TS]

01:10:44   promises Intel will still be first and [TS]

01:10:46   Intel's the only one who's going to be [TS]

01:10:47   able to proceed beyond that because i've [TS]

01:10:48   done a deep R&D and like four back in [TS]

01:10:52   that show 36 or whatever one of the [TS]

01:10:54   topics we've probably talked about is [TS]

01:10:55   like does doesn't it just want to be a [TS]

01:10:56   fab for everybody else because they have [TS]

01:10:58   the best process [TS]

01:10:59   wouldn't it be great of Apple could have [TS]

01:11:00   Intel fab all of its you know a series [TS]

01:11:03   chips on their fancy new process and you [TS]

01:11:06   know until is making some of the chips [TS]

01:11:09   and phones but not the big one not the a [TS]

01:11:11   serious step that is making more like a [TS]

01:11:12   radio chip that is not as good as the [TS]

01:11:14   the Qualcomm on yet many of its that I [TS]

01:11:16   have that doesn't work you know [TS]

01:11:18   well I don't know if that's why you're [TS]

01:11:19   you're having dropped calls but be the [TS]

01:11:21   way like it used to be the Intel was [TS]

01:11:23   unquestionably the best place to find [TS]

01:11:24   yourself isn't always like we're not [TS]

01:11:26   going to stab your stuff we want to sell [TS]

01:11:28   you chips that we make we make way more [TS]

01:11:30   money off those not gonna be a stupid [TS]

01:11:31   fab that's not what we are we're not [TS]

01:11:32   just a fab where Intel we make chips and [TS]

01:11:36   it i'm not going to say that Intel is [TS]

01:11:37   losing its lead-in fabtech but it seems [TS]

01:11:40   less clear-cut to me as a fairly casual [TS]

01:11:43   observer of the silicon chip industry [TS]

01:11:45   that Intel's lead on process is no [TS]

01:11:50   longer as big as it used to be and I [TS]

01:11:52   forget what are the a-10 being made as [TS]

01:11:54   it is a 14 animator I figure out what [TS]

01:11:57   size they are but I keep reading stories [TS]

01:11:59   about you know [TS]

01:12:00   taiwan semiconductor will be a 10-meter [TS]

01:12:02   before Intel is and also examine [TS]

01:12:04   nanometer who's 16 [TS]

01:12:06   yeah maybe they still have believed it [TS]

01:12:07   just doesn't seem as big to me as it [TS]

01:12:09   used to be and also Intel seems to be [TS]

01:12:11   more open now to fabbing things for [TS]

01:12:12   other people there was some of the story [TS]

01:12:15   on this one's about that a while back so [TS]

01:12:16   add that to get another set of variables [TS]

01:12:19   that are slowly shifting more towards [TS]

01:12:23   being in favor of our max I don't think [TS]

01:12:26   any of the stuff is a tipping point yet [TS]

01:12:27   but when we revisit this topic in a year [TS]

01:12:29   it may be a slam doc I mean at this [TS]

01:12:32   point i would say that the the processor [TS]

01:12:35   itself is probably no longer the reason [TS]

01:12:38   why they're not doing it it's everything [TS]

01:12:39   around the processor you know it's all [TS]

01:12:42   the like the memory controllers and the [TS]

01:12:44   Thunderbolt if they want you know they [TS]

01:12:46   have to move away from Thunderbolt mile [TS]

01:12:47   in all likelihood which by the way like [TS]

01:12:49   yeah I mean Apple did just make a pretty [TS]

01:12:51   big bet on Thunderbolt with the USBC [TS]

01:12:52   transition [TS]

01:12:53   like that that's a big bed but Apple [TS]

01:12:55   changes their mind when they need to [TS]

01:12:56   like they they can totally say you know [TS]

01:12:58   what [TS]

01:12:59   Thunderbolt was great last year this [TS]

01:13:00   year we can't do it anymore too bad [TS]

01:13:02   byeeeee noodles that they don't have to [TS]

01:13:04   change their mind like I said that this [TS]

01:13:05   like these are all solvable problems [TS]

01:13:07   with money like I'm sure in hell could [TS]

01:13:10   come to some agreement with Apple [TS]

01:13:12   involving exchanges of money that would [TS]

01:13:14   allow someone somewhere to build an arm [TS]

01:13:17   chip with other like I don't think [TS]

01:13:18   there's anything specifically exit the [TS]

01:13:20   x86 specific about even though it's like [TS]

01:13:22   bite or crap like these are solvable [TS]

01:13:24   problems technically monetarily it could [TS]

01:13:26   be another barrier and that's another [TS]

01:13:27   variable like on the against side and [TS]

01:13:29   maybe it's a big barrier because Intel's [TS]

01:13:31   like no we're never going to license it [TS]

01:13:32   and you know stuff like I we don't know [TS]

01:13:34   we don't know the constants that applied [TS]

01:13:36   to all these different factors but i [TS]

01:13:39   don't i don't say it rules it out and I [TS]

01:13:42   wouldn't say that Intel is incredibly [TS]

01:13:44   flexible on things like that but you [TS]

01:13:47   give thing too is like it would be [TS]

01:13:49   possible although i don't think it would [TS]

01:13:51   last very long I think I think it would [TS]

01:13:53   be a transitional thing but it would be [TS]

01:13:54   possible to only make some models with [TS]

01:13:58   armed ships like only the macbook 14 [TS]

01:14:00   only the macbook one and escape you know [TS]

01:14:02   and so you keep like the pro models on [TS]

01:14:05   intel so if they could they could just [TS]

01:14:06   say you know what if you need to [TS]

01:14:07   virtualize windows or whatever you could [TS]

01:14:09   use the pro model and if you need [TS]

01:14:11   Thunderbolt you the pro model and if you [TS]

01:14:12   if you're if you are willing to get the [TS]

01:14:14   smallest lightest thing that doesn't [TS]

01:14:15   have all the pro features then you can [TS]

01:14:18   have these two models that are arm-based [TS]

01:14:20   maybe the mac mini becomes our bases [TS]

01:14:22   well who knows you know there's they [TS]

01:14:24   have lots of options there if they [TS]

01:14:25   wanted to go that route I I don't know [TS]

01:14:28   if again i don't know if they will I [TS]

01:14:29   don't know if it makes sense you know [TS]

01:14:31   for them to put so much effort into this [TS]

01:14:34   transition if they're not really hurting [TS]

01:14:36   badly from in tow [TS]

01:14:38   but i think there have been times over [TS]

01:14:40   the last couple years where they have [TS]

01:14:42   been really hurting badly because of [TS]

01:14:43   Intel and I you know especially mean if [TS]

01:14:46   they care about the mac pro more it [TS]

01:14:48   would be the more pressing there because [TS]

01:14:49   the mac pro it has been historically [TS]

01:14:51   even more limited by Intel even that [TS]

01:14:53   even before i start skipping generations [TS]

01:14:55   you're right money does solve a lot of [TS]

01:14:57   things they can make a deal but Intel [TS]

01:14:58   really is pretty inflexible on certain [TS]

01:15:01   things these days and it doesn't seem [TS]

01:15:03   like Apple is a large enough for [TS]

01:15:05   profitable enough [TS]

01:15:06   tell customer for apt to be able to [TS]

01:15:08   dictate terms to them anymore if they [TS]

01:15:10   ever were [TS]

01:15:11   apple's big bargaining chip though is [TS]

01:15:13   that they could say hey and tell I know [TS]

01:15:15   you don't want to be a fab but if you [TS]

01:15:16   were going to fab something the a-series [TS]

01:15:19   chips in our iOS devices it's pretty [TS]

01:15:21   good volume there [TS]

01:15:23   fair point also to go back a half-step [TS]

01:15:25   Marco you had said you know you could [TS]

01:15:28   make just the you know macbook one have [TS]

01:15:31   the new arm chip just for the sake of [TS]

01:15:33   discussion and i agree with you but [TS]

01:15:36   wouldn't we run into the same sort of [TS]

01:15:38   problem with this USBC transition where [TS]

01:15:40   if if the macbook one is running arm but [TS]

01:15:43   nothing else is what is incentivizing [TS]

01:15:46   the software developers to rebuild their [TS]

01:15:49   apps for the arm platform and make that [TS]

01:15:51   binary some blah blah [TS]

01:15:53   if only one presumably low-volume mac is [TS]

01:15:57   on arm and everything else is stolen and [TS]

01:15:59   tell the mac app store rules if only [TS]

01:16:01   magnet back developers actually sold [TS]

01:16:03   thanks for the matter was alright but [TS]

01:16:04   nothing i'm sure they would do that that [TS]

01:16:06   would be their thing they would they [TS]

01:16:07   would mandate in the mac app store and [TS]

01:16:09   honestly developers would do it if it is [TS]

01:16:11   easily is just changing some settings [TS]

01:16:12   and feelings and stuff around like at [TS]

01:16:14   this point most conscientious Mac [TS]

01:16:16   developers should not have architecture [TS]

01:16:18   specific code in like they still have WD [TS]

01:16:21   sessions say how to tell if you're doing [TS]

01:16:23   something that relies on you know word [TS]

01:16:25   size or by daughter and especially with [TS]

01:16:26   Swift and stuff with the stuff being [TS]

01:16:27   abstract away and not have to worry [TS]

01:16:29   about see in San shorts and whatever the [TS]

01:16:31   hell those are right you know on [TS]

01:16:32   different architectures and all that [TS]

01:16:33   crap i think it would be that bad and [TS]

01:16:35   developers to do it because if you want [TS]

01:16:37   to sell those people you'll do it right [TS]

01:16:38   like maybe the people making props [TS]

01:16:41   wouldn't because they don't want to sell [TS]

01:16:42   to the macbook escape people but it is [TS]

01:16:44   surmountable and I think there are [TS]

01:16:45   incentives for people to get on board as [TS]

01:16:49   time goes on it becomes less and less [TS]

01:16:52   difficult to make relatively portable [TS]

01:16:54   code like you know that we we have moved [TS]

01:16:57   up so many layers of abstraction and so [TS]

01:16:58   much of our code we do so little custom [TS]

01:17:01   assembly or by order assumptions are you [TS]

01:17:03   know binary operations at that level at [TS]

01:17:05   all anymore that it's less and less work [TS]

01:17:08   now and you know if I i think i think [TS]

01:17:10   developers are going to do more work to [TS]

01:17:12   support the touch bar then they would [TS]

01:17:14   need to do to make an armed version of [TS]

01:17:16   almost any app except for game [TS]

01:17:17   developers they'd be screwed [TS]

01:17:19   what gets delivered to the app store [TS]

01:17:21   because i am I haven't looked at this in [TS]

01:17:23   a while but doesn't Swift compile to its [TS]

01:17:26   own intermediate language then gets [TS]

01:17:28   compiled like an llvm intermediate [TS]

01:17:30   language is that what gets pushed the [TS]

01:17:32   app store and that's what the code is [TS]

01:17:33   all about I think you're mixing bisco [TS]

01:17:35   get caught up with the sill stuff which [TS]

01:17:36   is a whole different i think you're [TS]

01:17:38   right i think i forget what the the bit [TS]

01:17:40   code policy is you remember our go a bit [TS]

01:17:43   code is required on the watch i believe [TS]

01:17:46   i think it's optional for iphone still [TS]

01:17:50   and i don't i don't know if the mac app [TS]

01:17:52   store may rest in peace even supports it [TS]

01:17:56   i I don't know anyway but bit code that [TS]

01:17:59   the number of people have uploaded and [TS]

01:18:01   basically determined that big code is [TS]

01:18:03   probably not a very good way to just [TS]

01:18:06   automatically generate like a whole arm [TS]

01:18:08   thing is big coat i think is is too low [TS]

01:18:11   level it sits beneath the compiled level [TS]

01:18:13   and so basically like assumptions about [TS]

01:18:16   by order and stuff would would not [TS]

01:18:18   translate automatically gotcha ok but [TS]

01:18:20   you see what I'm driving at though I [TS]

01:18:21   wasn't sure if this could solve that [TS]

01:18:23   problem for you i'm pretty sure bit code [TS]

01:18:26   is not the answer to like an automatic [TS]

01:18:28   arm build of everything in the store if [TS]

01:18:29   it's yeah what was it good was it mostly [TS]

01:18:32   africa i used to know this about bit [TS]

01:18:34   cold but not running is always to [TS]

01:18:36   interviews for a long time lets you [TS]

01:18:37   forget all these things that I remember [TS]

01:18:38   the details like apples motivation for [TS]

01:18:40   doing it was so they have more [TS]

01:18:41   flexibility with like fiddling with [TS]

01:18:43   instructions from one generation to the [TS]

01:18:44   next of like the s-1 chip for the s2 and [TS]

01:18:47   so on and so forth that because you're [TS]

01:18:48   not delivering machine code that they [TS]

01:18:50   just run as-is they have some [TS]

01:18:52   flexibility if they change instruction [TS]

01:18:54   or move instruction replace it with [TS]

01:18:55   another one is slightly different that [TS]

01:18:56   they can do the final final machine code [TS]

01:18:58   generation business anyway [TS]

01:19:01   developers were all antsy about it and [TS]

01:19:04   who knows how long we'll be a thing but [TS]

01:19:05   on the watch [TS]

01:19:05   that's what i was thinking on the watch [TS]

01:19:07   like it is a thing that has been from [TS]

01:19:08   day one right everything for the watches [TS]

01:19:10   delivered its bit code which gives Apple [TS]

01:19:12   more flexibility with hardware design [TS]

01:19:14   and they would have if everyone were [TS]

01:19:15   shipping just binaries that run as-is [TS]

01:19:16   yeah I thought that the the pitch [TS]

01:19:20   treason for bit code was that this way [TS]

01:19:23   as a user you would only download the [TS]

01:19:26   version of the binary that's built for [TS]

01:19:28   your platform [TS]

01:19:29   rather than having to get the two kind [TS]

01:19:31   of building on what you were saying [TS]

01:19:32   rather rather than having to get the a6 [TS]

01:19:34   version a 78 version would have you [TS]

01:19:36   would just have the version of the app [TS]

01:19:38   built against the processor that you [TS]

01:19:41   have ya Dustin would be a smaller [TS]

01:19:43   download that's true too although like [TS]

01:19:46   with with binary you know in most cases [TS]

01:19:49   as most of Marcos apps proof exists like [TS]

01:19:51   to include graphics because he uses [TS]

01:19:52   paint code for everything [TS]

01:19:53   the size of your application is not [TS]

01:19:54   determined by the size of your code [TS]

01:19:56   these days like my hands are bigger than [TS]

01:19:57   had been a lot of your code right i will [TS]

01:19:59   say that a lot of apps involve a large [TS]

01:20:02   quantity of advertising and tracking [TS]

01:20:05   SDKs and those can actually ahead a [TS]

01:20:08   non-trivial amount of binary search is [TS]

01:20:10   middle and a lot of their sizes assets [TS]

01:20:12   as well but yeah a lot of those can get [TS]

01:20:15   pretty sizable and make the binary [TS]

01:20:17   pretty ridiculous that the Swiss [TS]

01:20:18   standard library i think i think still [TS]

01:20:20   has to ship with the applications [TS]

01:20:21   because they haven't worked out the ABI [TS]

01:20:23   compatibility yesterday is another [TS]

01:20:24   another big things in there but for you [TS]

01:20:27   know for applications of appreciable [TS]

01:20:28   sized when you're saying things like you [TS]

01:20:30   know one gigabyte game that's not code [TS]

01:20:32   that's all that's all assets we're [TS]

01:20:36   sponsor tonight by betterment investing [TS]

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01:21:38   visit betterment calm / ATP that's [TS]

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01:21:46   there's been a couple of calls for a [TS]

01:21:52   terrifying strategy from the past to [TS]

01:21:55   come back [TS]

01:21:57   John should there be mad clones again [TS]

01:21:59   this is a was mentioned last show as a [TS]

01:22:02   measure of exactly how deep the [TS]

01:22:05   dissatisfaction in some quarters was [TS]

01:22:08   about the new macbook pros they're [TS]

01:22:10   saying look if you're not going to make [TS]

01:22:12   the pro mac that I want to make how [TS]

01:22:15   about letting other people baked mac [TS]

01:22:17   hardware that way Apple you don't have [TS]

01:22:19   to worry about it anymore [TS]

01:22:20   someone else will address my needs and [TS]

01:22:22   everyone be happy is not great Mac [TS]

01:22:24   cloning is done we did it once before we [TS]

01:22:26   can do it again just license the mac [TS]

01:22:28   operating system and i will gladly buy [TS]

01:22:30   from some other company that actually [TS]

01:22:32   cares about my needs and will make me [TS]

01:22:33   the big honking computer that I want and [TS]

01:22:36   we've been down this road before in the [TS]

01:22:39   past for most of apples history with the [TS]

01:22:42   mac people have been clamoring for them [TS]

01:22:43   to clinics that was IBM's half [TS]

01:22:46   accidental strategy at IBM Intel and [TS]

01:22:49   windows like that whole big mess the way [TS]

01:22:51   it ended up through no particular grand [TS]

01:22:54   plan of anybody except perhaps microsoft [TS]

01:22:55   was that you could buy a pc from [TS]

01:22:59   companies other than IBM their [TS]

01:23:00   ibm-compatible and they all would suit [TS]

01:23:04   your needs they could all run ms-dos and [TS]

01:23:07   Microsoft Windows eventually and all [TS]

01:23:08   that other stuff and so the hardware [TS]

01:23:10   vendors will compete with each other and [TS]

01:23:12   have their own race to the bottom until [TS]

01:23:13   the albino businesses suffered L&O [TS]

01:23:15   anyway blah blah [TS]

01:23:16   um everyone was saying during the go [TS]

01:23:20   ladies early nineties hey Apple IBM [TS]

01:23:23   Microsoft whoever eating your lunch [TS]

01:23:25   because they let anybody make hardware [TS]

01:23:27   and they have competition and capitalism [TS]

01:23:28   and yay eighties you should like your [TS]

01:23:32   backside and apples that no we're not [TS]

01:23:35   starting system and every time Apple did [TS]

01:23:37   something that someone didn't like was I [TS]

01:23:39   see if you just license your operating [TS]

01:23:42   system you've been doing much better in [TS]

01:23:46   the end eventually i think apple now [TS]

01:23:48   making so much more money than the other [TS]

01:23:50   pc makers has come out the other side [TS]

01:23:51   and saying I guess I strategy was pretty [TS]

01:23:53   good but in the middle there [TS]

01:23:55   couple of actual CEOs were convinced [TS]

01:23:57   that this is a good idea thanks pendler [TS]

01:23:58   started maybe I forget I'm blaming the [TS]

01:24:00   wrong CEO for starting that cloning but [TS]

01:24:05   they said you did what Apple is getting [TS]

01:24:07   increasingly desperate i still in avenue [TS]

01:24:09   operating system and windows 95 98 and [TS]

01:24:11   so on so we're taking over the world and [TS]

01:24:13   I hadn't yet but next one of the panic [TS]

01:24:15   plans they made it was alright people [TS]

01:24:18   keep saying license and operating system [TS]

01:24:19   uh let's do that and they did that with [TS]

01:24:22   predictable results because that was not [TS]

01:24:24   licensing for a position of power it [TS]

01:24:26   allowed a bunch of third parties to make [TS]

01:24:28   mac loans very often based on mac apple [TS]

01:24:31   derived reference hardware designs these [TS]

01:24:33   clone company sometimes it even have to [TS]

01:24:35   do the hard work to build their own [TS]

01:24:36   hardware they could just sort of make [TS]

01:24:37   hardware that was like apples but a [TS]

01:24:39   little bit better and do a little bit of [TS]

01:24:40   work in addition to that it didn't help [TS]

01:24:43   Apple make more money the license fees [TS]

01:24:45   did not make up for the loss of hardware [TS]

01:24:47   sales steve jobs came back was nothing [TS]

01:24:49   with steve jobs came back he candidate [TS]

01:24:52   many women can before then driven can [TS]

01:24:54   before that and the brief Macklin [TS]

01:24:59   experiment ended and for most people [TS]

01:25:01   looking backwards on it they're gonna go [TS]

01:25:02   Matt clothing that was such a big [TS]

01:25:03   mistake it didn't actually help Apple [TS]

01:25:05   actually hurt apple and it was kind of [TS]

01:25:09   cruel to do Mac clones and then a year [TS]

01:25:12   or two later say oh just kidding no more [TS]

01:25:15   mac loans and so all those companies [TS]

01:25:16   spring up around making mac clones have [TS]

01:25:19   a brief moment in the Sun and then had [TS]

01:25:21   to disappear because their entire [TS]

01:25:22   business on motorola even made them for [TS]

01:25:24   crying out loud motorola made mac loans [TS]

01:25:26   and so I would imagine for you people [TS]

01:25:29   who didn't live through it you silly [TS]

01:25:30   Millennials it just seems like a coffin [TS]

01:25:33   but to me who lived through it i do have [TS]

01:25:37   some fun memories and i think most mac [TS]

01:25:38   users who lived through the corner do [TS]

01:25:40   have some fun memories of it for the [TS]

01:25:42   just the reasons we just talked about [TS]

01:25:43   like within the the macbook pro and [TS]

01:25:46   dissatisfaction there was a time when if [TS]

01:25:49   Apple didn't make a mac that was like [TS]

01:25:51   you wanted to buy a bike it didn't [TS]

01:25:53   didn't have the right balance of [TS]

01:25:54   features and price and so on and so [TS]

01:25:55   forth there was a chance there will be [TS]

01:25:57   another company that would and these [TS]

01:25:59   companies the macro micro no dummies [TS]

01:26:01   they tried to fill markets the market [TS]

01:26:06   niches that Apple do [TS]

01:26:08   you want to and so they would clock [TS]

01:26:11   there cpus little bit higher they would [TS]

01:26:13   make boring-looking Tara boxes that were [TS]

01:26:14   nevertheless much more expendable the [TS]

01:26:16   apples designs they would sell computers [TS]

01:26:19   for less money than apple they would do [TS]

01:26:21   all sorts of things that Apple wasn't [TS]

01:26:23   going to do or just giving you different [TS]

01:26:24   combinations of size and hard drive [TS]

01:26:26   space and video capabilities in you know [TS]

01:26:28   it was actually a fairly exciting time [TS]

01:26:31   to be a Mac user and a lot of people [TS]

01:26:33   actually bought those clones and where [TS]

01:26:36   these nice Apple computers know and that [TS]

01:26:39   the companies weren't around very long [TS]

01:26:40   as Apple stop cloning but for a brief [TS]

01:26:43   moment there we were in that that world [TS]

01:26:45   where if you were an enthusiast who like [TS]

01:26:47   to run the mac operating system you had [TS]

01:26:51   more choices and it was it was kind of [TS]

01:26:53   fun [TS]

01:26:53   now this doesn't mean we should do it [TS]

01:26:56   again now it's a silly overreaction to a [TS]

01:26:58   new product that some people were mildly [TS]

01:27:00   dissatisfied with but like I guess maybe [TS]

01:27:04   just I have my main point of this is to [TS]

01:27:07   say that Matt clothes weren't actually [TS]

01:27:09   all bad and have apple ever loses total [TS]

01:27:12   interest in either the mac entirely or [TS]

01:27:14   the high end of the mac market some kind [TS]

01:27:17   of limited licensing plan could work [TS]

01:27:22   just like the LG monitor is currently [TS]

01:27:24   the only one you can buy that works with [TS]

01:27:25   the macbook pro and i assume there will [TS]

01:27:27   be other ones but imagine if like one [TS]

01:27:28   company was blessed is the company that [TS]

01:27:30   makes the pro mac hardware and it was [TS]

01:27:31   blessed by Apple and it was the only [TS]

01:27:33   there was was no it's not like you had [TS]

01:27:35   50 more choices but merely you had two [TS]

01:27:38   choices were before you have zero or [TS]

01:27:41   before you just have one that's the [TS]

01:27:43   thing i think Pro users would find [TS]

01:27:47   reasonably acceptable and Apple might [TS]

01:27:49   find advantageous why we make some money [TS]

01:27:52   office market let someone else do the [TS]

01:27:53   heavy lifting without increasing our [TS]

01:27:55   support burden too much [TS]

01:27:57   obviously this is totally outside around [TS]

01:27:59   philosophically speaking I think [TS]

01:28:01   anything that apple would ever consider [TS]

01:28:02   but from a consumer perspective it seems [TS]

01:28:05   viable to me i don't see the apple today [TS]

01:28:07   doing it but everything you just said [TS]

01:28:10   does make sense it was a cranberry and [TS]

01:28:12   America article about Apple should pull [TS]

01:28:14   the novo and you know this exact thing [TS]

01:28:16   just have have one company do it [TS]

01:28:18   hardware stuff Apple not interested [TS]

01:28:19   anymore i think mostly just a [TS]

01:28:21   reaction though you're not gonna make [TS]

01:28:22   the hardware i want lunch let somebody [TS]

01:28:23   else do it like totally an overreaction [TS]

01:28:25   but they're kinda like the arm on the [TS]

01:28:28   mac like there's something to it and [TS]

01:28:31   it's not the time to do it now but will [TS]

01:28:34   check back in five years and see how [TS]

01:28:36   things have changed so for reference i [TS]

01:28:39   have configured a mac pro like [TS]

01:28:42   workstation at dell.com I'm so sorry if [TS]

01:28:46   you think if you try to configure [TS]

01:28:48   anything complicated at dell.com [TS]

01:28:51   recently [TS]

01:28:52   Wow my goodness so i have a few errors [TS]

01:28:55   in my configuration that need to be [TS]

01:28:57   fixed according to this slip this [TS]

01:28:59   popover dialogue now one of those is the [TS]

01:29:02   pcie solid-state drive boot drive [TS]

01:29:04   requires the harder to be the pcie boot [TS]

01:29:06   drive please updated as needed [TS]

01:29:07   of course it can update for me wow the [TS]

01:29:09   pcie solid-state drive is not compatible [TS]

01:29:11   with the dual video card please update [TS]

01:29:12   the internal hardware configuration [TS]

01:29:14   required pcie food driving pcie [TS]

01:29:15   solid-state drive but really this needed [TS]

01:29:17   to be sure to update the selection for [TS]

01:29:18   boot drive hard drive also the selection [TS]

01:29:20   of food options for the pcie solid-state [TS]

01:29:21   drives that being said if I could [TS]

01:29:24   somehow make this configuration work i [TS]

01:29:27   have configured what I think would be a [TS]

01:29:30   modern version of the high and mac pro t [TS]

01:29:32   12-core mac pro the current 12-core mac [TS]

01:29:35   pro which is three years old and slow 64 [TS]

01:29:38   gig one terabyte pci-express SD base [TS]

01:29:42   video card which is the D 500 ish that [TS]

01:29:45   is eight hundred dollars for this and [TS]

01:29:48   that m800 by the way i think is now less [TS]

01:29:51   powerful than the GPU in the ipad pro [TS]

01:29:53   already closed [TS]

01:29:54   probably yeah so the similar del with a [TS]

01:29:58   brand-new Broadwell e-z on [TS]

01:30:00   oh crap i'm sorry i had the eight-core [TS]

01:30:03   selected to change the switch the micro [TS]

01:30:06   a call right Mac Pro 7300 dollars in the [TS]

01:30:09   Acorn fix every 300 macro 5404 the for [TS]

01:30:12   the dealt with the brand new parts that [TS]

01:30:14   are faster so it there is a substantial [TS]

01:30:17   price gain here for you for you know if [TS]

01:30:22   if you wanted to do pc hardware that was [TS]

01:30:24   similar and in many ways better but the [TS]

01:30:27   land dildo they'll do it [TS]

01:30:28   would like 10 or even HP or anybody else [TS]

01:30:32   would be better know the only reason I [TS]

01:30:33   went to del on this was that I checked [TS]

01:30:35   earlier in the week and HP does not seem [TS]

01:30:36   to offer the Broadwell easy on the [TS]

01:30:38   they're all the VIII's and probably for [TS]

01:30:40   anyway doesn't matter but yeah it for [TS]

01:30:42   the purpose of building a hackintosh [TS]

01:30:45   azure workstations or anything else have [TS]

01:30:47   apple licensed the OSD clone makers even [TS]

01:30:50   if they charge like three hundred [TS]

01:30:51   dollars for like some you know large [TS]

01:30:53   price for the OS it would still be [TS]

01:30:56   pretty price competitive to go with a [TS]

01:30:59   clone maker but that's probably the [TS]

01:31:01   reason they're not going to do it now [TS]

01:31:02   that being said you can look at what [TS]

01:31:04   they're doing you know as mentioned [TS]

01:31:05   earlier it is very noticeable that they [TS]

01:31:08   are outsourcing some of their dongles to [TS]

01:31:10   belkin they are outsourcing their new [TS]

01:31:12   monitor to LG I think it's very clear [TS]

01:31:15   that Apple is trying to get themselves [TS]

01:31:18   out of businesses like they're they're [TS]

01:31:20   exiting businesses they're excellent [TS]

01:31:22   display business their ass on that thing [TS]

01:31:24   somebody's darling outsourcing that like [TS]

01:31:26   and like the belkin ethernet adapter box [TS]

01:31:29   it looks like an apple product it looks [TS]

01:31:31   like an apple product box [TS]

01:31:32   it looks like the product itself like [TS]

01:31:34   this is clearly like Apple is trying to [TS]

01:31:37   get themselves out of these non-core may [TS]

01:31:42   be unprofitable businesses [TS]

01:31:44   it wouldn't surprise me if they actually [TS]

01:31:46   did do some kind of weird partnership [TS]

01:31:49   with IBM or something [TS]

01:31:50   22 or you know HP or whatever to offer [TS]

01:31:53   something that I mean it seemed it seems [TS]

01:31:55   crazy to tell Mac people that apple [TS]

01:31:58   would ever do is some kind of clone [TS]

01:31:59   program again but if you look at what [TS]

01:32:01   they're actually doing today that isn't [TS]

01:32:04   totally out of the question now I still [TS]

01:32:06   think it's incredibly unlikely I i do I [TS]

01:32:08   i would not count on it because i would [TS]

01:32:10   i would assume that if Apple wanted a [TS]

01:32:13   computer like this to exist they would [TS]

01:32:15   just make themselves but it there there [TS]

01:32:18   is now president in and what they're [TS]

01:32:20   doing in their lineup to effectively [TS]

01:32:23   outsourced less interesting parts of [TS]

01:32:25   their business to other companies to [TS]

01:32:26   make it their problem whenever something [TS]

01:32:28   needs service or to manage the margins [TS]

01:32:30   or whatever else that's the most [TS]

01:32:32   interesting part of their business to [TS]

01:32:33   some people like the eye and hardware [TS]

01:32:35   it's kind of like getting back to the [TS]

01:32:36   hell guard thing like that they should [TS]

01:32:38   be making that in-house busy as a [TS]

01:32:39   even just as a motivational tool for [TS]

01:32:41   their for their internal tech team and [TS]

01:32:43   for their customers but i think it would [TS]

01:32:45   have to be it couldn't just be like a [TS]

01:32:47   licensing arrangement because it's not [TS]

01:32:48   just that Apple wants to make like 200 [TS]

01:32:49   boxing when they sell I there's a [TS]

01:32:52   support burden to every new models out [TS]

01:32:54   there to support with the OS and [TS]

01:32:56   everything so I think it would have to [TS]

01:32:57   be more of a partial ownership profit [TS]

01:33:00   sharing type thing which would probably [TS]

01:33:01   mean these machines would not be like [TS]

01:33:04   the mac loans they wouldn't be less [TS]

01:33:05   expensive for the same hardware they [TS]

01:33:07   will be just as expensive as if Apple [TS]

01:33:09   mated the only difference would be that [TS]

01:33:11   you said that Apple outsources some [TS]

01:33:13   portion of it and it's not like the [TS]

01:33:14   belkin connector and like I said the [TS]

01:33:16   early Mac groans you wonder how much of [TS]

01:33:18   that is belkin's work and how much of it [TS]

01:33:20   is Apple's a lot of the original macbook [TS]

01:33:22   Matt clones were Apple reference designs [TS]

01:33:25   modified and a lot of companies do that [TS]

01:33:27   give you like a reference bored and then [TS]

01:33:28   you can tweak it and everything but like [TS]

01:33:30   for for the belt on the LG Display how [TS]

01:33:32   much involvement that Apple have in the [TS]

01:33:34   creation of those peripherals was it [TS]

01:33:35   purely here you go companyyou're now [TS]

01:33:38   allowed to make this here are the specs [TS]

01:33:39   figure it out or did apple cooperate [TS]

01:33:42   with them very closely surely for the [TS]

01:33:43   software integration for the LG screen [TS]

01:33:45   they had to do something [TS]

01:33:45   was there any cooperation at the [TS]

01:33:47   hardware level like you don't really [TS]

01:33:48   know what goes on in these relationships [TS]

01:33:49   but as i said before like in the [TS]

01:33:51   monetary deals could be worked out and I [TS]

01:33:53   would hope the apples today bargaining [TS]

01:33:55   up from a position of strength and not [TS]

01:33:57   from position of Michael Spindler what [TS]

01:33:59   would make the arrangements so that is [TS]

01:34:01   very profitable to apple and that the [TS]

01:34:04   company that they're partying with you [TS]

01:34:05   just feel itself lucky to even be [TS]

01:34:07   allowed to work with apples apples so [TS]

01:34:08   awesome and that apple would come out [TS]

01:34:11   ahead on it financially while removing [TS]

01:34:13   whatever burdens they feel are put on [TS]

01:34:15   him i think by the way for the high-end [TS]

01:34:16   is totally wrong move because Apple [TS]

01:34:18   should totally be doing the high-end [TS]

01:34:19   house because now we can discuss I think [TS]

01:34:22   we also discussed in slack but i know [TS]

01:34:23   i'm just doing is reiterating my whole [TS]

01:34:25   car thing in seven different ways to get [TS]

01:34:27   people to understand how this works and [TS]

01:34:28   having them complained to me even Casey [TS]

01:34:30   was like I don't buy my car because [TS]

01:34:32   there's a high-end car from the same [TS]

01:34:34   maker i don't have the discussion again [TS]

01:34:36   but what would will go home I sound like [TS]

01:34:38   yeah and slack [TS]

01:34:40   I don't know you had the voice plugin [TS]

01:34:42   and I'm laughs yeah yeah it's [TS]

01:34:44   unfortunate but wow alright admitted for [TS]

01:34:49   this week [TS]

01:34:50   thanks lat 43 sponsors this week [TS]

01:34:52   betterment 0 and hover and we will see [TS]

01:34:55   you next week [TS]

01:34:57   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:35:02   mean to be in as it was accidental [TS]

01:35:05   accidental John research Marco in kc [TS]

01:35:12   would let go [TS]

01:35:14   because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

01:35:19   and you can find the show know today p [TS]

01:35:23   dot and if your twitter follow them [TS]

01:35:30   yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:35:35   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC [TS]

01:35:42   syracuse it [TS]

01:35:56   sorry for the people waiting for service [TS]

01:36:00   studio and switch i think we have exact [TS]

01:36:02   actually exhausted all the follow-up and [TS]

01:36:05   tangible topics related to the macro [TS]

01:36:07   pronouncement on and i'm not going to [TS]

01:36:09   take all the blame for this because [TS]

01:36:10   people keep sending us feedback about it [TS]

01:36:12   because it's not just it's like well you [TS]

01:36:14   got to get off this macbook pro issue [TS]

01:36:16   they keep the listeners are still [TS]

01:36:18   talking to us about it but I think we're [TS]

01:36:20   through it all [TS]

01:36:20   so next week for sure unless something [TS]

01:36:23   happens [TS]

01:36:24   Microsoft service to do another switch [TS]

01:36:26   what are they going to get to the [TS]

01:36:28   fireworks factory that's a simpsons [TS]

01:36:31   thing isn't it [TS]

01:36:32   you got it new job the only reason I got [TS]

01:36:34   it is because you've used that on it's [TS]

01:36:36   like seven times it's not being way more [TS]

01:36:37   than seven women that's what else is [TS]

01:36:41   going on other than the obvious that we [TS]

01:36:43   rather not discuss i will say you know [TS]

01:36:46   that [TS]

01:36:47   Thank You audience and you guys this has [TS]

01:36:49   been nice to you know get my mind off of [TS]

01:36:52   that stuff [TS]

01:36:53   yeah i agree Grand Tours coming back not [TS]

01:36:57   not this coming saturday friday but week [TS]

01:37:00   from this coming friday then coming back [TS]

01:37:02   as it already yeah sorry no no I that [TS]

01:37:05   was a poor choice of words it's a it's [TS]

01:37:07   starting when I i say coming back [TS]

01:37:09   because I think of it as top gear again [TS]

01:37:10   but but anyway that's that's a week from [TS]

01:37:14   Friday so that's super exciting [TS]

01:37:15   yeah you need to remind me of that over [TS]

01:37:17   is it is a is Amazon only rec'd it's [TS]

01:37:21   amazon i don't know when it will like [TS]

01:37:24   what time of day it's happening but it [TS]

01:37:26   is the 18th of november they're [TS]

01:37:28   streaming one episode per week for six [TS]

01:37:33   weeks and I believe there's going to be [TS]

01:37:34   two seasons per calendar year so [TS]

01:37:37   presumably offspring and a fall season [TS]

01:37:40   since we're getting kind of fall season [TS]

01:37:41   now i'm really looking forward to it [TS]

01:37:44   should be good [TS]

01:37:45   speaking of TV although i don't want to [TS]

01:37:47   get onto depressing politics but one of [TS]

01:37:50   the one of the analogies and then the [TS]

01:37:52   jokes and the stocks that have been made [TS]

01:37:53   and involving this election has another [TS]

01:37:56   show black mirror which is a show ya UK [TS]

01:38:00   i don't want to say it's a BBC show [TS]

01:38:01   because then you get yelled at because [TS]

01:38:02   it's not there's other places to me [TS]

01:38:03   anyway whatever it's a show in England [TS]

01:38:06   and it's like [TS]

01:38:08   you guys remember amazing stories maybe [TS]

01:38:10   you too young for that number to you but [TS]

01:38:12   I've seen I've seen some of black mirror [TS]

01:38:14   episodes and i think given what just [TS]

01:38:17   happened it's going to be a long time [TS]

01:38:19   before I'm in the mood to watch any more [TS]

01:38:20   of them [TS]

01:38:21   yeah so like amazing stories like the [TS]

01:38:24   twilight zone is the older reference [TS]

01:38:25   like every week there's a new episode [TS]

01:38:26   and it's a site usually sci-fi related [TS]

01:38:30   premise and there's no carryover [TS]

01:38:32   characters is no you know through-line [TS]

01:38:34   stories just like here's a little side [TS]

01:38:36   it's like sci-fi short stories for TV [TS]

01:38:37   and while I don't have a particular been [TS]

01:38:39   to it and so did amazing stories which [TS]

01:38:40   is a Spielberg ask thing black mirrors [TS]

01:38:43   bent is sci-fi independent stories that [TS]

01:38:46   are usually really depressing like it's [TS]

01:38:47   black mirror like three of the title [TS]

01:38:49   right and so like Marco said maybe not [TS]

01:38:51   in the mood to watch them right now and [TS]

01:38:53   black nerve me personally I find it a [TS]

01:38:56   little bit silly and overblown because [TS]

01:38:58   I've seen all these same ideas and [TS]

01:38:59   stories before and then taken to the nth [TS]

01:39:01   degree and it just gets a little [TS]

01:39:02   ridiculous but sometimes this one once [TS]

01:39:03   whatever i'm not a big fan of other [TS]

01:39:04   people are but on the specific topic [TS]

01:39:07   this current season black mera season 3 [TS]

01:39:09   that maybe come out all at once not like [TS]

01:39:11   the the grant orbits are not you know [TS]

01:39:13   they make them ahead of time and it's a [TS]

01:39:16   scripted show more scripted then [TS]

01:39:18   hey way where there is one episode of [TS]

01:39:23   this season of black mare this third [TS]

01:39:25   season a black mirror which is like all [TS]

01:39:26   the previous seasons just a grim [TS]

01:39:28   terrible slog of overblown sci-fi but [TS]

01:39:31   there's one episode but i think actually [TS]

01:39:35   i watched it and I felt good after [TS]

01:39:36   watching i'm not going to say it's happy [TS]

01:39:39   and you can judge for yourself whether [TS]

01:39:40   it is like you know the feel-good story [TS]

01:39:43   of the century but i think it would be [TS]

01:39:45   safe for people to watch even if you're [TS]

01:39:48   feeling bad and that episode is Sanjana [TS]

01:39:49   peril which I with my favorite episode [TS]

01:39:53   of black mare ever which probably means [TS]

01:39:54   that i just don't like black mare [TS]

01:39:55   because it's at least black mirror of [TS]

01:39:57   any black mare episode but i would [TS]

01:39:59   encourage you if you're looking for a [TS]

01:40:02   sci-fi short story on TV and don't want [TS]

01:40:05   to be super depressed black mayor season [TS]

01:40:07   three [TS]

01:40:08   Sanjana para which is episode wait seven [TS]

01:40:11   seconds we'll chat room to look up for [TS]

01:40:12   me episode number [TS]

01:40:14   4 episode number 4 case you beat them to [TS]

01:40:16   it because he's listening to be in [TS]

01:40:17   real-time cheating and there's a chat [TS]

01:40:20   room and so what was the summary of this [TS]

01:40:23   episode [TS]

01:40:24   no no you gotta know anything about [TS]

01:40:26   black mirror episodes you start watching [TS]

01:40:27   them so nothing you want to tell us [TS]

01:40:29   anything no you can't know everyone's it [TS]

01:40:31   now [TS]

01:40:31   no spoilers like they're my goodness [TS]

01:40:34   idea might not my mistake [TS]

01:40:35   so I figured who was shoot it was one of [TS]

01:40:38   the new york city-based developers and [TS]

01:40:40   I'm drawing a blank which one it was [TS]

01:40:41   mine Brian I race head guilted me into [TS]

01:40:46   watching one of the episodes black [TS]

01:40:49   mirror and the one that I watched this [TS]

01:40:52   was a couple years ago now was about the [TS]

01:40:55   British Prime Minister being black [TS]

01:40:57   episode one that's the first dog [TS]

01:41:00   yeah that's I had no desire to back but [TS]

01:41:02   not the tone that sets a tone for the [TS]

01:41:04   show that is the appropriate tone for [TS]

01:41:06   the show always is either except for san [TS]

01:41:08   gennaro I'm not saying it's a bad show [TS]

01:41:10   i'm just saying yeah I still watch that [TS]

01:41:12   and I was like this is not for me [TS]

01:41:13   nothing to do watch off season 3 and [TS]

01:41:15   Mark are no no i I've i don't really i [TS]

01:41:17   mean all the way through season two I [TS]

01:41:19   think we watched all of season one at [TS]

01:41:21   least I was a good thing like you can [TS]

01:41:22   skip to any episodes anytime because [TS]

01:41:24   there's no through lines yeah and just [TS]

01:41:25   pick one out but I get some of the [TS]

01:41:27   season three episodes are just so Graham [TS]

01:41:28   like it just it's it's almost a parody [TS]

01:41:30   of itself at this point but Sandra peril [TS]

01:41:33   thumbs up now it's like it's the kind of [TS]

01:41:35   show like it's so it's such a downer and [TS]

01:41:38   so dark that that you you if you have [TS]

01:41:42   anything bad or stressful going on in [TS]

01:41:45   your life it's not a good show to watch [TS]

01:41:46   and so I've had not a ton of [TS]

01:41:49   opportunities where I really want to [TS]

01:41:51   watch shows like that recently and [TS]

01:41:53   that's not going to change the next few [TS]

01:41:55   weeks that's for sure [TS]

01:41:56   I said try this episode it is not up [TS]

01:41:59   I'm i think he will watch it and not [TS]

01:42:01   curse my name after you watch it i think [TS]

01:42:03   it will make you feel better [TS]

01:42:04   a high bar okay that's your idea of us [TS]

01:42:07   feel you will improve your mood and okay [TS]

01:42:11   i will give i will let anything get a [TS]

01:42:13   part of the reason [TS]

01:42:15   part of the reason and improves your [TS]

01:42:16   mood is like the context was like wait [TS]

01:42:18   this is a black mirror episode it should [TS]

01:42:19   be terrible and cream and it's not I [TS]

01:42:21   feel awesome about it's like you expect [TS]

01:42:23   the worst then you get this thing that [TS]

01:42:25   is like it like it like redeemed [TS]

01:42:27   rest of black mirror briefly who would [TS]

01:42:29   have thought that this episode would end [TS]

01:42:31   with a recommendation of an uplifting [TS]

01:42:33   black mirror episode [TS]

01:42:34   yeah I was surprised as anyone I got to [TS]

01:42:36   the end i even went to the intent to say [TS]

01:42:38   maybe it's not actually uplifting and [TS]

01:42:40   I'm reading it wrong and so you on the [TS]

01:42:42   internet you're like no actually it's [TS]

01:42:43   super dark here's the ending but the [TS]

01:42:45   creators of the shower like no it's [TS]

01:42:47   actually have left thing just accepted [TS]

01:42:50   yeah no I mean I I wouldn't be opposed [TS]

01:42:54   to watching uplifting one but the after [TS]

01:42:57   having watched the very first episode [TS]

01:42:58   like i said i decided it was not for me [TS]

01:43:00   not to say it's not for you or anyone [TS]

01:43:01   else it just wasn't for me i have enough [TS]

01:43:05   to be depressed about 12 pressing the [TS]

01:43:06   poor choice of words i have enough to be [TS]

01:43:08   sad about [TS]

01:43:09   I don't need to be sad watching [TS]

01:43:10   television as well yeah that's what hit [TS]

01:43:13   tonight for our current like casual [TS]

01:43:16   series because we started the office [TS]

01:43:18   tonight just like this we just need [TS]

01:43:19   something that's not like even parks and [TS]

01:43:21   rec is to political that looks like oh [TS]

01:43:23   god you can't even do that yet just need [TS]

01:43:26   something light that is just not gonna [TS]

01:43:30   add to anything bad just watched some [TS]

01:43:34   miyazaki movies which you've probably [TS]

01:43:35   never seen any of you guys remember [TS]

01:43:36   seeing anything that's correct yep [TS]

01:43:38   if you don't show up you should be [TS]

01:43:40   showing our total by this point this [TS]

01:43:41   feel like you're neglecting your duties [TS]

01:43:43   apparent yes turnaround is just you'll [TS]

01:43:47   find it just find it and show it to Adam [TS]

01:43:50   and the whole family can watch it [TS]

01:43:51   together and you'll be happy [TS]

01:43:53   yeah i downloaded millennium whatever [TS]

01:43:56   whatever when it was when it was an [TS]

01:43:58   old-timey exactly but close [TS]

01:44:00   it's all it's all the same job that's [TS]

01:44:02   all time yeah can you stay calm siracusa [TS]

01:44:05   movies [TS]

01:44:06   yeah that's why I know that works for me [TS]

01:44:07   so i downloaded that circus the movie [TS]

01:44:09   the Millennium whatever millennial [TS]

01:44:10   whatever actually diem millennium [TS]

01:44:12   actress which is probably millennial [TS]

01:44:14   actors I don't even know Millennium [TS]

01:44:15   Falcon that's that she's not a [TS]

01:44:16   millennial she was born for me that oh [TS]

01:44:19   my god it's not the one of the things [TS]

01:44:21   that are like in the X shape is that [TS]

01:44:22   right yes the y-wing the sick thing is [TS]

01:44:26   we're gonna get so many emails and [TS]

01:44:27   people thinking that were serious when [TS]

01:44:28   were deliberately trolling John anyway [TS]

01:44:31   I'm point is i downloaded that but like [TS]

01:44:33   forever ago when you and Merlin talked [TS]

01:44:35   about it and I saw him and watched yet [TS]

01:44:38   so i need to get on that you mean you [TS]

01:44:39   watch it legal and YouTube and it was [TS]

01:44:41   legally available on YouTube [TS]

01:44:42   yes I'm talking with commercials [TS]

01:44:43   commercials [TS]