The Accidental Tech Podcast

182: I Had to Reboot My Car Today


00:00:00   so are you recording in a format that is [TS]

00:00:02   not just call recorder [TS]

00:00:03   nope start recording in a format that is [TS]

00:00:06   not just call recorder you're just [TS]

00:00:07   asking me to mess things up [TS]

00:00:09   oh because you're afraid he's gonna pull [TS]

00:00:11   Casey hmm my UPS last for at least five [TS]

00:00:15   minutes i'm actually plug into it so yes [TS]

00:00:18   yes I hear the truck to hear it here [TS]

00:00:21   drivers driving away would say maybe [TS]

00:00:24   it's leaving [TS]

00:00:25   yeah i think it's driving away alright [TS]

00:00:26   so a job market just asked John if if he [TS]

00:00:31   could start a crash resilient sound [TS]

00:00:33   recording programs so that if this truck [TS]

00:00:36   was doing some sort of electrical work [TS]

00:00:37   and suddenly the power went out it would [TS]

00:00:39   be a big deal because John hopefully and [TS]

00:00:42   would be using something that isn't call [TS]

00:00:44   recorder like i was using my Mac crapped [TS]

00:00:47   out which i can tell you why that [TS]

00:00:48   matters if we ever get to talk about the [TS]

00:00:50   mp3 file format i would love to do that [TS]

00:00:52   actually but anyway it's the John it [TS]

00:00:54   said to Marco well it doesn't matter [TS]

00:00:56   because my UPS last for at least five [TS]

00:00:58   minutes and I'm plugged into my UPS that [TS]

00:01:00   that's how I said it was an accurate [TS]

00:01:02   reproduction that is a completely [TS]

00:01:04   flawless reproduction it was effectively [TS]

00:01:06   verbatim only was recorded oh yes it was [TS]

00:01:08   in my end of my phone recorder recording [TS]

00:01:10   it will successfully make it a disc [TS]

00:01:11   anyway I bring all this up because not [TS]

00:01:16   20 minutes ago I was sitting at my imac [TS]

00:01:19   knowing that i'm going to be going out [TS]

00:01:21   of town and thinking to myself I don't [TS]

00:01:25   know what to do because i really want to [TS]

00:01:27   let this thing run for another week and [TS]

00:01:30   see if it if it reboots itself and if it [TS]

00:01:34   doesn't I think at that point i will [TS]

00:01:37   personally be fairly convinced that the [TS]

00:01:39   OEM ram is good and that the owc ram was [TS]

00:01:43   bad but i'm probably going to be using [TS]

00:01:45   plex at some point the Plex server is [TS]

00:01:48   the imac if this thing turns itself off [TS]

00:01:52   I don't have any mechanism to turn it [TS]

00:01:54   back on [TS]

00:01:56   should I turn it off and plug it into [TS]

00:01:58   the battery part of the PS i don't know [TS]

00:02:00   it i decided not to because I went into [TS]

00:02:03   system preferences and confirmed that [TS]

00:02:05   little check box that reads so start up [TS]

00:02:07   automatically after a power failure in [TS]

00:02:10   so i'm just going on faith that either [TS]

00:02:11   we won't have a power failure [TS]

00:02:12   or if we do the mac will start itself [TS]

00:02:16   back up and somebody in the chat is [TS]

00:02:18   asking you don't shut down your machine [TS]

00:02:20   at night like the rest of us now this [TS]

00:02:22   thing is on always i turn the screen off [TS]

00:02:24   yep i'm an exact same way no one should [TS]

00:02:26   be shutting down their machines at night [TS]

00:02:28   anymore ever [TS]

00:02:29   doesn't make any sense but to be fair I [TS]

00:02:31   there's there's no reason not to i guess [TS]

00:02:33   now there is there's a pretty big reason [TS]

00:02:34   they do use a good amount of power but [TS]

00:02:36   you know the probably ideal balance [TS]

00:02:38   between like functionality and power [TS]

00:02:41   savings is sleep mode to actually put [TS]

00:02:43   this to put the machine to sleep not too [TS]

00:02:45   deep hibernation mode but regular sleep [TS]

00:02:47   mode that is like I think a great [TS]

00:02:49   balance for most people want to put it [TS]

00:02:51   slip your energy saver settings to do [TS]

00:02:53   that for you after one hour of idle time [TS]

00:02:54   go to sleep or whatever [TS]

00:02:56   yeah but not that I don't want that [TS]

00:02:57   happening during the day though when I'm [TS]

00:02:59   awake because at any moment I might want [TS]

00:03:01   to do something on this mac remotely and [TS]

00:03:03   yes I could do wake-on-lan blah blah but [TS]

00:03:05   that's what scheduled sleep before then [TS]

00:03:07   if you know you know scheduled to go to [TS]

00:03:08   sleep at 11pm everyday i wake up at 5am [TS]

00:03:10   and you're fine don't know that was the [TS]

00:03:13   thing that's the thing [TS]

00:03:14   oh yeah schedule that's how i do my back [TS]

00:03:16   plays backups my computer wakes itself [TS]

00:03:18   up at around three a.m. and does [TS]

00:03:20   backblaze and then go to sleep so I [TS]

00:03:22   don't actually run continuously all day [TS]

00:03:23   I just do like nightly backups [TS]

00:03:24   interesting this is that it is always [TS]

00:03:27   from the wake up is the mac feature and [TS]

00:03:28   then back with you to stay put me just [TS]

00:03:30   put to sleep when it's done now back [TS]

00:03:32   place has its own independent schedule [TS]

00:03:33   which is the run continuously or choose [TS]

00:03:35   when you want me to run so i have I two [TS]

00:03:37   independent schedules that I just [TS]

00:03:38   synchronize good old Quran style say the [TS]

00:03:40   mac wakes up to 3 or the mags up to 55 [TS]

00:03:43   and back play starts at three and yeah [TS]

00:03:46   so every day you're ruining five minutes [TS]

00:03:48   of power user 0 of your computer use [TS]

00:03:50   wasting that power 15 minutes to stay [TS]

00:03:52   awake for like an hour i like to do all [TS]

00:03:53   that stuff to do it during that time [TS]

00:03:55   probably just time machine backups and [TS]

00:03:56   like power nap is like think predates [TS]

00:03:59   are postdates my mac but power an apple [TS]

00:04:01   have things wake up from their sleep in [TS]

00:04:03   due time machine backups oh and check [TS]

00:04:04   mail and stuff that doesn't help that [TS]

00:04:05   place although technically if it wakes [TS]

00:04:07   up to the time machine back place will [TS]

00:04:08   also run if you have a set to continue [TS]

00:04:10   anyway the point is scheduling feature [TS]

00:04:11   is part of rs.10 it's been there for [TS]

00:04:13   years and years and years you should use [TS]

00:04:15   its cool yeah I probably should sleep [TS]

00:04:18   this thing at night but I just never do [TS]

00:04:20   I me and I say that only because nothing [TS]

00:04:23   is happening on it while I'm sleeping i [TS]

00:04:25   mean i guess the [TS]

00:04:26   one of you guys or maybe like Jason's [TS]

00:04:28   Nelson sees three hours in the past [TS]

00:04:29   might be trying to watch something off [TS]

00:04:32   of my plex server that I've shared with [TS]

00:04:34   you guys but in principle there's a [TS]

00:04:36   reason I shouldn't just let the things [TS]

00:04:37   sleep at like midnight or one o'clock or [TS]

00:04:39   something like that and wake itself back [TS]

00:04:41   up at a at like six or seven in the [TS]

00:04:43   morning [TS]

00:04:44   I mean you can use that as like your own [TS]

00:04:46   kind of like political statement of you [TS]

00:04:48   know you should really go to bed like [TS]

00:04:49   stop watching top gear of my flexor need [TS]

00:04:52   to go to sleep well I just thought it [TS]

00:04:53   was funny because I was having this this [TS]

00:04:55   internal debate with myself about [TS]

00:04:57   whether or not i should move the mac [TS]

00:04:58   onto the battery side of ups and once [TS]

00:05:00   once i have it should only be a question [TS]

00:05:03   of when not whether wrote short and [TS]

00:05:05   that's exactly what I was about to say [TS]

00:05:06   actually once i have my data point with [TS]

00:05:09   regard to the OEM ram at that juncture i [TS]

00:05:12   will move it over to the battery side of [TS]

00:05:14   the UPS but I don't want to mess with [TS]

00:05:16   anything until that i am still a little [TS]

00:05:18   concerned that there was that one seeing [TS]

00:05:21   GP related failure like a day after you [TS]

00:05:24   put the stock ran back in that is that's [TS]

00:05:27   like the only thing that's weird about [TS]

00:05:28   this to me that says like maybe this is [TS]

00:05:30   more a more complex problem but the fact [TS]

00:05:33   that it hasn't happened all at all in [TS]

00:05:35   what three weeks or something and it was [TS]

00:05:36   happening about every week like it's [TS]

00:05:38   correct that is a pretty strong you know [TS]

00:05:40   switch over there so I i'm not entirely [TS]

00:05:44   ready to say it's definitely the ram but [TS]

00:05:47   i'm probably about ready to say you [TS]

00:05:49   should always get the ram swamped [TS]

00:05:51   yeah and basically as I've said in the [TS]

00:05:54   past [TS]

00:05:55   all I'm doing right now is trying to get [TS]

00:05:57   a data point so that i can go to owa owc [TS]

00:06:00   and cermak sales where the hell they're [TS]

00:06:02   called and say hey listen you know I was [TS]

00:06:04   having reboots once a week up with the [TS]

00:06:05   OEM ran back in it ran for blank without [TS]

00:06:08   a reboot [TS]

00:06:09   I'm pretty confident it's the ram can [TS]

00:06:11   you send me new sticks and actually i [TS]

00:06:12   don't have the individuals name handy [TS]

00:06:14   but somebody had sent me a couple of [TS]

00:06:17   tweets over the last couple weeks saying [TS]

00:06:19   that they had similar issues with owc [TS]

00:06:21   ram and ended up returning it i think [TS]

00:06:23   now and I presume at this point I'm well [TS]

00:06:25   out of the return window because I got [TS]

00:06:27   this computer in January but anyways I [TS]

00:06:30   they said that they had gotten crucial [TS]

00:06:33   ram instead and thus far it had been [TS]

00:06:36   flawless although to be fair to only [TS]

00:06:38   been [TS]

00:06:38   few days at that point so I think what [TS]

00:06:40   I'll try to do is I'll try to do a [TS]

00:06:44   return on the owc ram assuming my test [TS]

00:06:46   plays out the way I expected well and [TS]

00:06:49   then if that Ram has similar issues at [TS]

00:06:51   that point i'll probably either asked to [TS]

00:06:53   return it or i should say an exchange or [TS]

00:06:56   whatever and then i'll ask to return it [TS]

00:06:58   if it if the new hypothetical ram has [TS]

00:07:00   the same issue and maybe just get like [TS]

00:07:02   you know crucial ram or something like [TS]

00:07:04   that anyway we should probably do some [TS]

00:07:06   follow-up is john doing less rentals [TS]

00:07:09   wrong [TS]

00:07:09   yeah i got an email today that this is a [TS]

00:07:13   reminder from lens rental com this is a [TS]

00:07:14   reminder that your rental and yesterday [TS]

00:07:16   in our system indicates that has not [TS]

00:07:17   been sent back to us so i was surprised [TS]

00:07:19   by this email because first of all my [TS]

00:07:21   rental didn't end yesterday it ended on [TS]

00:07:23   monday and yesterday was Wednesday and I [TS]

00:07:28   sent it back on monday and of course [TS]

00:07:30   when i sent it back i got a receipt from [TS]

00:07:31   the fedex place and take a picture of [TS]

00:07:33   the receipt with my phone so as soon as [TS]

00:07:34   i got this email I could immediately [TS]

00:07:35   reply with a picture of my received the [TS]

00:07:37   tracking number that if they were [TS]

00:07:38   entered into the fedex website they [TS]

00:07:41   would see was on truck for delivery back [TS]

00:07:42   to their place in Missouri or whatever [TS]

00:07:44   they are and my question is to market [TS]

00:07:47   was down the shore did I do it wrong am [TS]

00:07:48   I supposed to enter my tracking number [TS]

00:07:50   after i returned am I supposed to go to [TS]

00:07:51   the website and click a button that say [TS]

00:07:53   that I shipped it back that I messed [TS]

00:07:54   this up somehow [TS]

00:07:55   you didn't mess it up at all basically [TS]

00:07:57   something messed up that doesn't usually [TS]

00:07:59   do that anyway they don't have that they [TS]

00:08:00   don't have the lens i want to rent for [TS]

00:08:01   Morris vacation so I'm kind of upset [TS]

00:08:04   about that will show what lens is it [TS]

00:08:05   it's a lens that I probably don't want [TS]

00:08:07   to buy because it's a thousand dollars [TS]

00:08:09   and it's a trying to find like a zoom [TS]

00:08:11   zoom that I wouldn't want to buy because [TS]

00:08:13   it's like a compromise but it's a pretty [TS]

00:08:15   good compromise this is the sony vario [TS]

00:08:17   tests artiste re60 into 70-millimeter [TS]

00:08:20   it's a very compact zoom it's like if [TS]

00:08:24   you wanted to have one lens on your [TS]

00:08:25   camera on vacation [TS]

00:08:26   it takes decent pictures at many ranges [TS]

00:08:28   and has a pretty good zoom range not [TS]

00:08:31   really really big zoom but you know [TS]

00:08:32   pretty wide to pretty close up and folds [TS]

00:08:36   back to a small size [TS]

00:08:38   this looks like a good lens for that but [TS]

00:08:40   then it's also a thousand dollars and do [TS]

00:08:42   i really want to spend a thousand [TS]

00:08:43   dollars on a zoom lens that isn't [TS]

00:08:45   optically that amazing but it really is [TS]

00:08:48   very flexible and it's much smaller than [TS]

00:08:49   the zoom lens [TS]

00:08:51   it's i'm thinking of renting that and [TS]

00:08:52   just buying some problems with the [TS]

00:08:53   camera [TS]

00:08:54   yeah i mean honestly and I was actually [TS]

00:08:56   very pleased we got a lot of feedback [TS]

00:08:57   from other photographer so far basically [TS]

00:09:00   saying that they too and these are some [TS]

00:09:02   some pro photographers that they too [TS]

00:09:05   only on primes and and some of them said [TS]

00:09:08   I occasionally resume for like an event [TS]

00:09:10   but for the most part there's been a [TS]

00:09:12   number of people who basically saying [TS]

00:09:13   that they agree with with my plea last [TS]

00:09:16   episode 2 please consider only using [TS]

00:09:18   crimes and please at least get the 50 [TS]

00:09:20   prime equivalent for your system they [TS]

00:09:22   were actually quite a lot of of those i [TS]

00:09:24   was that was very nice to hear so I so [TS]

00:09:26   it does seem like you are looking at i [TS]

00:09:28   also have to mention last show if you're [TS]

00:09:32   not looking at the sony system i would [TS]

00:09:33   also give serious consideration to the [TS]

00:09:35   fuji xt line or X Pro Line like there's [TS]

00:09:39   there's the xt-1 that a lot of people [TS]

00:09:42   loved i believe the xt 2 is now out or [TS]

00:09:45   at least it's about to be out the the [TS]

00:09:47   whole fuji x-trans sensor thing is kinda [TS]

00:09:50   cool and has some pretty cool advantages [TS]

00:09:52   so i would strongly recommend if you [TS]

00:09:54   don't want to jump all the way up to [TS]

00:09:55   Sony's a 6300 / j7 price ranges consider [TS]

00:10:01   the fuji exline because it is I i have [TS]

00:10:05   not had any experience with it but it is [TS]

00:10:07   very well-regarded and a lot of people [TS]

00:10:09   like that a lot at the slide at the [TS]

00:10:11   slightly lower price point people trying [TS]

00:10:14   to talk about the micro four-thirds [TS]

00:10:15   already know I'm totally aware of all [TS]

00:10:17   these things I think I've read every [TS]

00:10:18   single review on dpreview for every 2016 [TS]

00:10:21   camera at this point so I'm very aware [TS]

00:10:22   of the things and you know i'm i'm [TS]

00:10:24   pretty settled on the sony body i'm [TS]

00:10:26   willing to pay the extra money for the [TS]

00:10:28   action and like it's a camera that I [TS]

00:10:29   used like I you know it's a known known [TS]

00:10:31   at this point i rented i use that I [TS]

00:10:33   liked it [TS]

00:10:33   the Fugees are less expensive but I [TS]

00:10:36   don't mind the extra cost for the body [TS]

00:10:37   especially when i'm looking it cleanses [TS]

00:10:39   at all costs a bazillion dollars anyway [TS]

00:10:41   still no purchases maybe I'm thinking [TS]

00:10:43   about also worth pointing out as one [TS]

00:10:45   person do that I also neglected to [TS]

00:10:46   mention last episode the the lenses that [TS]

00:10:48   I by are the full-frame lenses the fe [TS]

00:10:51   line in Sony's parlance John would not [TS]

00:10:54   need to buy the fe Lenzi could buy the [TS]

00:10:55   crop sensor a lens's and so I like the [TS]

00:10:58   lens you were just mentioning John that [TS]

00:11:00   that is not available in full frame [TS]

00:11:01   there is no equivalent to that for full [TS]

00:11:02   frame i know that's why that's why it's [TS]

00:11:04   a good [TS]

00:11:04   friends like it's perfect for my camera [TS]

00:11:06   that's why it's versatile lens for my [TS]

00:11:08   camera is like you don't want I don't [TS]

00:11:09   want to pay the amount of money i have [TS]

00:11:11   to pay for a full-frame version of the [TS]

00:11:13   same lens and I don't want the size that [TS]

00:11:15   would bring so here's the lens made [TS]

00:11:16   specifically for my size sensor that is [TS]

00:11:18   very compact that has a good zoom range [TS]

00:11:20   is optically pretty good [TS]

00:11:21   exactly yeah so for your needs [TS]

00:11:24   I i do recommend for most people that [TS]

00:11:27   they like that if they have the budget [TS]

00:11:29   for one of these sony a7 series full [TS]

00:11:32   frame cameras to step up to it if you [TS]

00:11:34   can because the quality difference is [TS]

00:11:35   immense [TS]

00:11:36   however for what you are using and 44 [TS]

00:11:39   your stated needs for zoom lens is [TS]

00:11:42   basically for really far-reaching but [TS]

00:11:44   also small and somewhat affordable zoom [TS]

00:11:46   lenses i would not recommend full-frame [TS]

00:11:48   I think you're making the right move by [TS]

00:11:50   not going full frame for that particular [TS]

00:11:52   reason but it pains me to say that I [TS]

00:11:55   would go full frame if the body wasn't [TS]

00:11:57   so I would go for the body wasn't so big [TS]

00:11:59   like I would sacrifice resume if the [TS]

00:12:00   body wasn't so big and if the body [TS]

00:12:01   wasn't literally three times the cost [TS]

00:12:03   like it's not it's not a small price [TS]

00:12:05   type a couple hundred actually about [TS]

00:12:06   3,500 bucks out what everyone wanted to [TS]

00:12:10   consider if if you don't want to go all [TS]

00:12:11   the way to the three-thousand-dollar a7r [TS]

00:12:13   to the regular a 72 without the r came [TS]

00:12:17   out something like six to nine months [TS]

00:12:19   earlier and I i rented one of those [TS]

00:12:21   before it before his attitude to wait [TS]

00:12:23   for them by the a7r to it's a v8 the [TS]

00:12:25   regular a 72 is not that much more money [TS]

00:12:28   than the day 6300 and it's not quite as [TS]

00:12:31   advanced in some of the newer stuff like [TS]

00:12:33   some of the video features and the focus [TS]

00:12:35   there i think there aren't as many fate [TS]

00:12:37   focus points on it i think and the burst [TS]

00:12:39   mode thing and it's bigger like and I [TS]

00:12:41   looked at it but the sensor for the a 72 [TS]

00:12:44   it is full frame and I think it's me [TS]

00:12:46   what you can get those things for what [TS]

00:12:47   like like 14 or 15 hundred dollars like [TS]

00:12:50   the effort for what they are they're [TS]

00:12:51   incredible value right now because it's [TS]

00:12:53   kind of like last year's model but still [TS]

00:12:54   for sale basically that is a very good [TS]

00:12:56   by if you want full frame but don't want [TS]

00:12:59   to spend like three grand on it and [TS]

00:13:01   compared to always felt like if you want [TS]

00:13:03   full frame before the sony a series you [TS]

00:13:07   had to go like-for-like you know 5d mark [TS]

00:13:09   to mark 3 and those are those are like [TS]

00:13:11   3,000 our cameras that you see the only [TS]

00:13:13   way to get full frame like that was like [TS]

00:13:15   the entry point for full frame was like [TS]

00:13:16   three-thousand-dollar cannon [TS]

00:13:18   big slrs to have something like the sony [TS]

00:13:20   a7 series and to have their full frame [TS]

00:13:23   sensor starting at like 1,500 bucks is [TS]

00:13:25   amazing for for quality photography and [TS]

00:13:28   for bringing it to people it's really [TS]

00:13:29   quite something I'm gonna do the kc [TS]

00:13:31   production and here's what's actually [TS]

00:13:32   going to happen [TS]

00:13:33   I'm gonna get this camera we're going to [TS]

00:13:34   use your fingers the new whatever [TS]

00:13:36   replaces your camera is going to come [TS]

00:13:38   out and or there's going to be a [TS]

00:13:40   full-frame camera and a similar form [TS]

00:13:42   factor to the 6300 and several years [TS]

00:13:44   after buying this camera a bunch of [TS]

00:13:46   lenses i'm going to sell it all and by a [TS]

00:13:49   full-frame mirrorless camera which may [TS]

00:13:51   or may not be room so nice I i know [TS]

00:13:52   that's gonna happen like it's inevitable [TS]

00:13:53   but i'm willing to spend the three or [TS]

00:13:55   four years now with this small camera as [TS]

00:13:57   a transitional phase [TS]

00:13:58   yeah that's totally fair honestly i [TS]

00:14:01   would bet against that feat that future [TS]

00:14:02   for you because like to come through [TS]

00:14:04   cheap no III fair fair [TS]

00:14:07   I mean that might be there might be a [TS]

00:14:09   factor here but I've been talking to you [TS]

00:14:10   about cameras for like two years now for [TS]

00:14:12   three years now and you've never wavered [TS]

00:14:15   on the point of like I I like good [TS]

00:14:17   cameras but i will never buy one at that [TS]

00:14:19   nice i know because it's a money pit I [TS]

00:14:21   know I'm susceptible to this money but [TS]

00:14:23   it and my wife made me enter it and it [TS]

00:14:25   provides predicted once you have one and [TS]

00:14:27   use it a lot like just it's i know i [TS]

00:14:30   know myself I was trying to avoid this [TS]

00:14:31   particular money pit now easing into the [TS]

00:14:33   money pit and also i feel like a camera [TS]

00:14:36   is like your camera is still a little [TS]

00:14:38   bit in transition [TS]

00:14:39   I feel like this whole mirrorless [TS]

00:14:41   revolution is kind of like just getting [TS]

00:14:43   going here and i wanna actually I really [TS]

00:14:45   believe that you could have a decent [TS]

00:14:47   full-frame camera with all of your [TS]

00:14:49   features in a smaller form factor that [TS]

00:14:51   has even better performance I think that [TS]

00:14:53   is coming at the wait like five to seven [TS]

00:14:55   years i'm willing to wait and the 6300 [TS]

00:14:57   was really cool and I think all use that [TS]

00:14:59   way I I'm not sure to get that much [TS]

00:15:02   smaller honestly because they like like [TS]

00:15:05   the the a7 line before the 272 a7r to [TS]

00:15:09   the regular a7 line was a little bit [TS]

00:15:11   smaller one of the reasons that had to [TS]

00:15:13   get bigger was the giant embody [TS]

00:15:15   stabilizer thing they're if you look at [TS]

00:15:17   there's actually a teardown on iFixit of [TS]

00:15:19   the a7r to there really is not a lot of [TS]

00:15:22   room in there too to shrink this thing [TS]

00:15:23   any further and also if they did shrink [TS]

00:15:25   it further somehow that would probably [TS]

00:15:27   mean an even smaller battery and that's [TS]

00:15:30   the last listing needs like this [TS]

00:15:31   plenty of room for more battery they [TS]

00:15:33   need to talk about Apple about scallops [TS]

00:15:34   batteries or something visible more [TS]

00:15:36   battery man and I mean you can't change [TS]

00:15:38   them [TS]

00:15:38   I'm totally willing to not have the [TS]

00:15:39   n-body stabilization like do the the [TS]

00:15:41   6300 but with a full-frame sensor but [TS]

00:15:43   without the stabilization like anyway [TS]

00:15:45   I'm i believe in the future of [TS]

00:15:46   technology and I believe cameras will [TS]

00:15:48   get smaller and better and so i'm going [TS]

00:15:51   to wait it out and he even w if you [TS]

00:15:53   don't if you don't want the [TS]

00:15:54   stabilization don't know how much is in [TS]

00:15:56   a7r forget the first day 7 are actually [TS]

00:15:58   that's a contrast only you don't want [TS]

00:16:00   that but that's the old cameras slow [TS]

00:16:02   slow burst mode and not as good sensor [TS]

00:16:05   yeah you too you don't want contrast [TS]

00:16:07   autofocus nevermind exactly forget about [TS]

00:16:09   it anyway but we had enough camera talk [TS]

00:16:11   at some point i'll buy something then [TS]

00:16:14   we'll talk about it some more okay [TS]

00:16:15   alright good talk yeah we got a bit of [TS]

00:16:19   feedback with regard to qnx which is [TS]

00:16:22   that real-time operating system and damn [TS]

00:16:25   Dodger believes gentleman's name that [TS]

00:16:27   was co-founder and is now working at [TS]

00:16:28   apple an anonymous source with two [TS]

00:16:31   different anonymous sources the first [TS]

00:16:33   told us that the 75 that Marco had my [TS]

00:16:37   335 both the eye dr systems are running [TS]

00:16:40   on QX and this particular individual [TS]

00:16:44   also added that there really isn't any [TS]

00:16:47   requirement for real-time OS for [TS]

00:16:48   infotainment it just kind of happens to [TS]

00:16:51   use qnx kinda like the standard that [TS]

00:16:53   everybody does [TS]

00:16:54   yeah i was about to say that's [TS]

00:16:56   apparently fairly popular and [TS]

00:16:57   furthermore from what I understand the [TS]

00:17:01   car play features that are in a lot of [TS]

00:17:03   modern cars that's as a lot of that [TS]

00:17:06   support happens at the QNX like os-level [TS]

00:17:09   even before like the eye dr here if you [TS]

00:17:14   will or level in the software and then a [TS]

00:17:17   different animal source wrote us a [TS]

00:17:19   really fascinating email which i'd love [TS]

00:17:21   to read the whole thing but I presume [TS]

00:17:23   John is called out a couple of parts [TS]

00:17:24   that are that i'll read to you the [TS]

00:17:26   biggest performance problem in car UI is [TS]

00:17:28   usually the embedded chips that used our [TS]

00:17:30   system has to work on 10 plus chipsets [TS]

00:17:32   by different manufacturers car companies [TS]

00:17:35   save every cent on their chipset the [TS]

00:17:37   fact that some cars built today still [TS]

00:17:39   have less than 20 megs ram all the ram [TS]

00:17:42   costs almost nothing shows that [TS]

00:17:43   perfectly [TS]

00:17:44   as my head of engineering once said to [TS]

00:17:46   me they'd rather spend money on three [TS]

00:17:48   software engineers for two years trying [TS]

00:17:50   to get that system to run as efficiently [TS]

00:17:53   as possible rather than spending a few [TS]

00:17:55   dollars more in each chip and that's [TS]

00:17:57   because of the economy of scale that you [TS]

00:18:00   know when you're building 11 gazillion [TS]

00:18:01   cars a few dollars per car really starts [TS]

00:18:04   to add up and I just I mean it makes [TS]

00:18:06   sense but didn't really think of it that [TS]

00:18:07   way until this anonymous little bird in [TS]

00:18:09   and in and said that so I thought that [TS]

00:18:11   was fascinating it doesn't make sense [TS]

00:18:13   it's the exact definition of penny wise [TS]

00:18:15   pound foolish like well okay gonna think [TS]

00:18:17   like oh you're right about the math that [TS]

00:18:19   how it multiplies out but you're wrong [TS]

00:18:20   about their the car companies are wrong [TS]

00:18:22   about the value provided by having good [TS]

00:18:26   software the good software is an [TS]

00:18:28   important differentiation increasingly [TS]

00:18:29   important differentiator in cars and you [TS]

00:18:32   saving two bucks on that chip is not [TS]

00:18:34   worth the value lost to your brand like [TS]

00:18:36   all the people like Marcos that you get [TS]

00:18:38   drives us this you know really nice [TS]

00:18:40   Mercedes but is disgusted by the [TS]

00:18:42   infotainment system you spent all this [TS]

00:18:43   money on this car you know so many parts [TS]

00:18:46   of the Mercedes are fifty cents more [TS]

00:18:48   expensive than they are other cars one [TS]

00:18:49   cent more expensive one dollar more [TS]

00:18:51   expensive that from like the fuel lines [TS]

00:18:52   to the filters to the muffler's to every [TS]

00:18:54   single part of that car is just a little [TS]

00:18:56   tiny bit more expensive than honey [TS]

00:18:57   that's what makes it a Mercedes the the [TS]

00:18:59   software you can't treat like oh well [TS]

00:19:01   we're going to 120 gigs ram because [TS]

00:19:03   double the ram across three extra sense [TS]

00:19:05   instead of organists we're going to [TS]

00:19:06   spend you know that three engineers work [TS]

00:19:08   on this and to jam the software into [TS]

00:19:10   this tiny little chipset with a small [TS]

00:19:12   amount of ram because hey it's cheaper [TS]

00:19:13   do the math it is cheaper but you're [TS]

00:19:15   making your product worse in a way that [TS]

00:19:17   is way out of proportion to the money [TS]

00:19:18   that you save if you just add up like [TS]

00:19:20   okay two bucks two extra bucks per card [TS]

00:19:22   x number of cars we sell you are adding [TS]

00:19:24   so much more value to your brand as [TS]

00:19:26   mercedes as a car that people want to [TS]

00:19:27   buy by making decent software and you [TS]

00:19:29   make business software by not making [TS]

00:19:30   your software engineers past it jammed [TS]

00:19:33   their software into a bunch of weird [TS]

00:19:35   underpowered chipsets to the ram [TS]

00:19:37   constraint is it's a terrible idea and [TS]

00:19:39   you know that this email and say the [TS]

00:19:41   good part is all these problems are so [TS]

00:19:43   again worked on the companies creating [TS]

00:19:45   simple time systems are slowly getting [TS]

00:19:47   better understanding of Technology [TS]

00:19:48   hurdles and some car companies really [TS]

00:19:50   care are taking this away from [TS]

00:19:52   third-party vendors basically take it [TS]

00:19:54   in-house kinda like Tesla does so [TS]

00:19:56   they're getting better about this but [TS]

00:19:58   the mine [TS]

00:19:58   that is like totally wrong and you know [TS]

00:20:00   we're totally not blaming the people who [TS]

00:20:01   make these infotainment system because [TS]

00:20:03   you know as friends said they have to [TS]

00:20:04   write this thing has to work on these [TS]

00:20:06   terrible washing machine chipsets that [TS]

00:20:08   are in these cars because they're cheap [TS]

00:20:09   and of course they're terrible [TS]

00:20:11   and by the way the infotainment system [TS]

00:20:13   on cue next thing that was in response [TS]

00:20:14   to the last episode of our BBQ and [TS]

00:20:17   accents like well you don't need a [TS]

00:20:18   real-time operating system for the [TS]

00:20:19   entertainment you need it for like that [TS]

00:20:21   self-driving car the other you know the [TS]

00:20:23   automatic stopping system that prevents [TS]

00:20:24   you from hitting pedestrians and other [TS]

00:20:25   things that are critical they need to be [TS]

00:20:27   in real time but QX is also a reliable [TS]

00:20:30   popular embedded operating systems like [TS]

00:20:32   they just used for the infotainment [TS]

00:20:33   system stupid they're not even using [TS]

00:20:34   real-time features like this was my [TS]

00:20:36   question like what what is it about the [TS]

00:20:38   infotainment system that needs real-time [TS]

00:20:39   and answers nothing it's just you know [TS]

00:20:41   it's a good embedded operating system [TS]

00:20:43   with the automotive engineers are [TS]

00:20:44   familiar with that runs in a runs on [TS]

00:20:47   those washing machine ships with the [TS]

00:20:48   tiny amount of ram so there you have it [TS]

00:20:50   i should also point out that i had to [TS]

00:20:52   reboot my car today [TS]

00:20:53   how do you do that it happens he holds [TS]

00:20:55   down a key combination right [TS]

00:20:57   yes and and I should point out to this [TS]

00:21:00   is the third time I've had to do this [TS]

00:21:01   the instant owned the car for three [TS]

00:21:03   months that you should really look at [TS]

00:21:05   the ram Marco I hear that's problematic [TS]

00:21:08   yeah so it's so what was the symptom so [TS]

00:21:11   that the first time I had to reboot it [TS]

00:21:12   so there's two screens that there's the [TS]

00:21:14   screen were like the speedometer is like [TS]

00:21:16   right in front of you on the little [TS]

00:21:17   little dash counseling and there's the [TS]

00:21:19   giant touchscreen in the middle and [TS]

00:21:21   those are actually running like two [TS]

00:21:22   different computers or like they like [TS]

00:21:24   that the one in front of the driver is [TS]

00:21:26   kind of like a sub interface that [TS]

00:21:28   remotely controls the main one in the [TS]

00:21:30   center and the main one in the center [TS]

00:21:32   also controls all the hvac stuff all the [TS]

00:21:36   media stuff and a bunch of other things [TS]

00:21:39   that are not driving but a lot of other [TS]

00:21:41   accessory features of the Interior so I [TS]

00:21:43   went out one afternoon and the the [TS]

00:21:46   driver facing one said there's a problem [TS]

00:21:49   with your center console call service [TS]

00:21:51   I hate talking on the phone so rather [TS]

00:21:53   than calling customer service I just [TS]

00:21:54   search the web for like this error [TS]

00:21:55   message and found like some forums posts [TS]

00:21:58   and everything's a go just reboot it and [TS]

00:22:01   it took me another 10 minutes figure out [TS]

00:22:02   how the heck do you reboot it and the [TS]

00:22:04   way he rebooted as you like the steering [TS]

00:22:05   wheel has a little like jog we on each [TS]

00:22:07   side like by that by the buttons like [TS]

00:22:08   for the controls and if you hold if you [TS]

00:22:11   click in [TS]

00:22:11   and both of those jog wheels and hold [TS]

00:22:13   them in for like five seconds the center [TS]

00:22:15   screen boots [TS]

00:22:16   that's interesting so i had so i did [TS]

00:22:19   that fix the problem i came back up [TS]

00:22:21   it takes like 20 30 seconds to reboot [TS]

00:22:23   came back up it was fine and then I i [TS]

00:22:26   did it willingly [TS]

00:22:27   about a month ago because the navigation [TS]

00:22:32   when it highlights the the road you're [TS]

00:22:34   supposed to drive on with a blue overlay [TS]

00:22:36   sometimes if you if you zoom or pan or [TS]

00:22:40   otherwise cause the map to redraw [TS]

00:22:42   sometimes the blue overlay stop strong [TS]

00:22:46   reliably deliver the leader omit [TS]

00:22:48   sections or just not draw at all and it [TS]

00:22:51   looks like it may be running a texture [TS]

00:22:52   memory or something and so the texture [TS]

00:22:54   just not being painted right or [TS]

00:22:55   something I don't know the system is [TS]

00:22:56   working enough detail to say for sure [TS]

00:22:58   but it looks looks like you know some [TS]

00:23:00   kind of just like you know memory leak [TS]

00:23:01   bug that slowly this is stops working [TS]

00:23:03   very well and actually when I had the [TS]

00:23:04   service loner when I got my windshield [TS]

00:23:06   replaced that car had that same symptom [TS]

00:23:08   we're just wasn't drawn the overlay [TS]

00:23:09   right so I know it's not just my car [TS]

00:23:10   didn't have to fix in the service honor [TS]

00:23:12   but now i do you could reboot and it's [TS]

00:23:14   immediately better and today the center [TS]

00:23:17   console you stopped responding and like [TS]

00:23:18   the audio froze and it was playing over [TS]

00:23:20   bluetooth so it was like cable issue and [TS]

00:23:23   yet so I was like driving at the time [TS]

00:23:24   like well i hope this isn't doing weird [TS]

00:23:26   so I was a strategy stopped at traffic [TS]

00:23:28   lights like all right good time [TS]

00:23:29   older than me but it was finally get [TS]

00:23:32   back up again totally fine i will say [TS]

00:23:35   overall i can get you no matter what the [TS]

00:23:37   subject of these entertainment systems [TS]

00:23:38   it kind of annoys me that Tesla is [TS]

00:23:41   working on these automatic driving [TS]

00:23:43   things and pouring so much of their [TS]

00:23:45   resources into that while they're there [TS]

00:23:48   in car navigation and media system still [TS]

00:23:52   could use a lot of improvement it's [TS]

00:23:53   still pretty rudimentary it is nice and [TS]

00:23:55   that it has the big touchscreen and [TS]

00:23:57   everything but the the media interface [TS]

00:24:00   is extremely basic it [TS]

00:24:03   it supports very little of bluetooth [TS]

00:24:05   audio capabilities control capabilities [TS]

00:24:07   doesn't support like artwork and stuff [TS]

00:24:08   like that doesn't support fast-forward [TS]

00:24:10   and rewind it doesn't there's no of [TS]

00:24:12   course browsing or anything no ipod [TS]

00:24:14   interface no carplay so if they're there [TS]

00:24:16   they're missing a lot there and then the [TS]

00:24:19   navigation is also very rudimentary you [TS]

00:24:21   can't set waypoints you can't like you [TS]

00:24:24   know say alright we'll drive here to [TS]

00:24:25   here [TS]

00:24:25   use this highway or drive here but stop [TS]

00:24:27   here in the middle you can't do that you [TS]

00:24:29   have to just make separate trips and [TS]

00:24:31   stuff like that and also the directions [TS]

00:24:33   like the map the map images come from [TS]

00:24:36   google but I think Tesla has its own [TS]

00:24:39   Street data and texts also provides own [TS]

00:24:42   navigation despite where the data is [TS]

00:24:45   coming from is not using google [TS]

00:24:46   navigation tell his own navigation and [TS]

00:24:49   Tesla's time estimates are never right [TS]

00:24:51   with traffic and it is not very good [TS]

00:24:54   navigating around traffic heavy sigh [TS]

00:24:56   I've made the mistake of following a [TS]

00:24:57   couple times for Manhattan and it was a [TS]

00:25:00   disaster every time and like it was not [TS]

00:25:03   that it's not the driving to Manhattan [TS]

00:25:04   had to be disaster it just made really [TS]

00:25:06   bad choices when I followed them and [TS]

00:25:07   then I you know I i would look over like [TS]

00:25:10   if I would you stay on the highway one [TS]

00:25:11   more exit i would have bypassed all of [TS]

00:25:13   this that took me 40 minutes you know [TS]

00:25:15   so overall Tesla's head unit is like the [TS]

00:25:19   navigation system is no it's it's good i [TS]

00:25:22   love having the big screen [TS]

00:25:24   however I wish they'd put more resources [TS]

00:25:26   into that because it seems like they [TS]

00:25:28   haven't really touched that in a long [TS]

00:25:30   time and and for them to be putting all [TS]

00:25:33   this amazing effort into cool AI [TS]

00:25:35   features that's nice from like any know [TS]

00:25:37   if you look at the big picture like if [TS]

00:25:40   it if these things end up saving lives [TS]

00:25:41   that's awesome and that is more [TS]

00:25:42   important but at the same time as a [TS]

00:25:45   customer of their car i do wish the [TS]

00:25:47   system was better and it is kind of [TS]

00:25:49   weird that such a tech forward company [TS]

00:25:52   has kind of dropped the ball on the [TS]

00:25:55   basic features of their of their [TS]

00:25:57   technology in the car facing the user [TS]

00:25:59   you know also that the touchscreen just [TS]

00:26:01   really sluggish like navigating the map [TS]

00:26:04   is is very very low framerate it you [TS]

00:26:07   know it's kind of like navigating like [TS]

00:26:09   google maps on like a pentium 3 like if [TS]

00:26:12   it's not like it's not like using an [TS]

00:26:14   iPad like it's not at all like that it's [TS]

00:26:16   very sluggish and there's all this all [TS]

00:26:18   this latency in the interface and and [TS]

00:26:20   and I you kind of expect more from car [TS]

00:26:22   of that caliber some features aside I [TS]

00:26:26   getting back to the rebooting your car [TS]

00:26:28   and stuff you kind of well I don't start [TS]

00:26:31   to separate from the features that we've [TS]

00:26:33   been talking about this but I think a [TS]

00:26:34   lot of regular people have this feeling [TS]

00:26:36   and is easy for us to slip into it [TS]

00:26:39   do is like when things were simpler and [TS]

00:26:42   didn't have as much computer stuff they [TS]

00:26:44   were more reliable because there are [TS]

00:26:46   fewer things that can go wrong as soon [TS]

00:26:47   as i started adding software to their [TS]

00:26:49   stuff like we talked about this isn't [TS]

00:26:50   smart TV that old smart TV post ad from [TS]

00:26:52   CS so word processing software that all [TS]

00:26:55   the software and just makes the thing [TS]

00:26:57   less reliable and more annoying to use [TS]

00:27:00   and you're doing everything that in [TS]

00:27:02   terms of the basics like they've added [TS]

00:27:04   by the software to the car which is good [TS]

00:27:05   and they're better than a lot of other [TS]

00:27:08   people but on the other hand it's also [TS]

00:27:09   less reliable in my terrible terrible [TS]

00:27:11   entertainment if you don't even call [TS]

00:27:13   that system on my honda accord [TS]

00:27:15   I've never had to reboot it but it's [TS]

00:27:16   just terrible all the time so that's [TS]

00:27:17   kind of like in the in-between phase [TS]

00:27:19   where everything is not as simple as it [TS]

00:27:22   used to be like my wife's record that [TS]

00:27:23   has no infotainment screen at all that [TS]

00:27:25   was you know it's simple fixed-function [TS]

00:27:27   everything implemented in hardware with [TS]

00:27:29   you know some very rudimentary firmware [TS]

00:27:32   you would even call it no sort of [TS]

00:27:34   general-purpose touch screen menu system [TS]

00:27:36   software like nothing like that there's [TS]

00:27:39   a bunch of cpus there's a bunch of [TS]

00:27:40   memory but they're all basically like [TS]

00:27:41   little embedded systems that's like as [TS]

00:27:43   far as the car industry can go along the [TS]

00:27:47   lines of like everything is super [TS]

00:27:48   reliable and as we all know as [TS]

00:27:49   programmers but it's sometimes easy to [TS]

00:27:51   forget as consumers as soon as you make [TS]

00:27:54   real live software like a GUI you can't [TS]

00:27:57   make it the same way as an embedded [TS]

00:27:59   system you have to have a GUI framework [TS]

00:28:01   and an API and like you know regular [TS]

00:28:03   application development for human [TS]

00:28:04   interaction as opposed to this is custom [TS]

00:28:09   software for this little chip that [TS]

00:28:10   controls the radio and instead of you [TS]

00:28:12   know it's not like the more you start [TS]

00:28:13   making a platform [TS]

00:28:14   the more you start making what we know [TS]

00:28:16   is like a pc style platform or you build [TS]

00:28:18   applications on top of where you're [TS]

00:28:20   farther farther away from that ideal [TS]

00:28:22   embedded system that just has like a rom [TS]

00:28:24   or something you just get all the bugs [TS]

00:28:26   out of it and you get a writer if there [TS]

00:28:27   are bugs are known bugs were just once [TS]

00:28:29   you start having real life software it's [TS]

00:28:31   me there's nothing so far that we as [TS]

00:28:34   humans have been able to figure out how [TS]

00:28:35   to do to make that software as reliable [TS]

00:28:40   as the thing without software without [TS]

00:28:42   sacrificing huge things like just ok it [TS]

00:28:47   will you no will do space probe [TS]

00:28:48   reliability metrics but it will take us [TS]

00:28:50   years and years to write a very small [TS]

00:28:52   amount of [TS]

00:28:52   code and the limitations are so onerous [TS]

00:28:54   that no one would ever want to do [TS]

00:28:55   anything that way unless you're writing [TS]

00:28:57   a space problem which case you have no [TS]

00:28:58   choice right but cars are not space [TS]

00:29:00   probes the the the cost-benefit ratio so [TS]

00:29:03   different so bottom line is once you add [TS]

00:29:04   software the cars you have to reboot [TS]

00:29:05   your car like it essentially that is [TS]

00:29:07   inevitable at you know we do want [TS]

00:29:09   software to be added to our cars because [TS]

00:29:11   we think it's a better user interface [TS]

00:29:12   they can do all that stuff but you'll [TS]

00:29:13   have to reboot your car like there's no [TS]

00:29:15   like if only you had tried harder Tesla [TS]

00:29:17   then market wouldn't had to reboot his [TS]

00:29:19   car like there's there's there's you [TS]

00:29:21   know there's a sliding scale quality but [TS]

00:29:23   a car with software it's never going to [TS]

00:29:26   be as reliable as the car with the [TS]

00:29:29   hardware radio because the harbor radio [TS]

00:29:31   either works or it doesn't when it stops [TS]

00:29:32   working throughout you put a new [TS]

00:29:33   hardware radio and for the life of the [TS]

00:29:35   hardware radio it doesn't change know [TS]

00:29:36   for more updates is no software being [TS]

00:29:38   sent to and it's doing so much less [TS]

00:29:39   doing so so much less than marcos think [TS]

00:29:42   it's like pulling images and doing gps [TS]

00:29:43   and navigating and talking to you and [TS]

00:29:45   putting images up on the screen like [TS]

00:29:47   it's doing so much less like it's not as [TS]

00:29:49   if you know it's this magic sauce when [TS]

00:29:51   you do more stuff that's more [TS]

00:29:52   complicated software has bugs the Moores [TS]

00:29:54   offer you have the more bugs you have [TS]

00:29:55   and until we get like a sort of emergent [TS]

00:29:59   AI to write and fix our software for us [TS]

00:30:01   that seems to be the way of things [TS]

00:30:03   probably for most of our life so we [TS]

00:30:05   should just kind of get used to this now [TS]

00:30:06   the features discussion i think is a [TS]

00:30:08   separation which marketing look you have [TS]

00:30:10   you know you're going to have bugs you [TS]

00:30:11   have a lot of software spend more time [TS]

00:30:13   here instead of less of your time there [TS]

00:30:14   we say the same thing about Apple [TS]

00:30:16   especially on the mac like if you're not [TS]

00:30:18   don't try to look for the next big [TS]

00:30:19   feature dad wanted to just make all the [TS]

00:30:20   features that are already there much [TS]

00:30:21   more reliable and that definitely is [TS]

00:30:23   possible and it is something that should [TS]

00:30:24   be doing but whenever I feel like high [TS]

00:30:27   and mighty about the fact that I never [TS]

00:30:28   had to reboot my cord i realize it's [TS]

00:30:30   only because it doesn't really have as [TS]

00:30:31   much software and features as Marcos [TS]

00:30:33   cards and as soon as it does it's going [TS]

00:30:34   to be just as bad and you know we as [TS]

00:30:38   programmers understand why that happens [TS]

00:30:40   because software without bugs doesn't [TS]

00:30:42   exist then more most software more bugs [TS]

00:30:45   is used to get there [TS]

00:30:47   well is that depressing i don't know but [TS]

00:30:49   like you know that's that's the way of [TS]

00:30:52   things I feel like we should understand [TS]

00:30:54   that better than anyone because it's we [TS]

00:30:55   can do it for a living and we know what [TS]

00:30:57   it's really like [TS]

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00:32:38   jamie is written and they asked i'm [TS]

00:32:41   surprised that the clocks in different [TS]

00:32:42   computer recording devices can't keep a [TS]

00:32:44   can't keep frame accurate time I say [TS]

00:32:46   frame since I come from the film world [TS]

00:32:48   but you know accurate 224 thirtieth of a [TS]

00:32:50   second [TS]

00:32:51   this has been solved and sound recorders [TS]

00:32:53   and cameras since the fifties and [TS]

00:32:54   sixties using a quartz crystal with you [TS]

00:32:55   an accuracy of a few parts per million [TS]

00:32:57   computers can provide the accuracy of [TS]

00:32:59   quartz watch it's so nuts market would [TS]

00:33:01   you like to comment yeah so this is in [TS]

00:33:03   response to my discussion about audio [TS]

00:33:05   drift being a problem in Long podcast [TS]

00:33:08   recordings we're basically when your [TS]

00:33:10   sound card is sampling your microphone [TS]

00:33:13   at 44100 times per second then over the [TS]

00:33:17   course of like a two-hour recording what [TS]

00:33:20   your computer thinks is the correct time [TS]

00:33:22   and the number of samples is recorded [TS]

00:33:24   might be off from your co-hosts computer [TS]

00:33:27   by like half a second to one second and [TS]

00:33:31   it just do two imprecision between the [TS]

00:33:33   computers like my sound chip might just [TS]

00:33:35   be you know point zero zero zero one [TS]

00:33:38   percent less accurate than yours but [TS]

00:33:39   when you doing [TS]

00:33:40   forty-four thousand samples per second [TS]

00:33:42   over two hours that could start to add [TS]

00:33:44   up to something noticeable because it [TS]

00:33:45   only takes like a half-second for the [TS]

00:33:47   two tracks to be off before you can [TS]

00:33:49   really notice it [TS]

00:33:50   my reply to Jamie's feedback here is I [TS]

00:33:53   don't know why they can't do it i mean [TS]

00:33:54   if it's possible to do it somewhere else [TS]

00:33:56   I don't know why I'm sure there's a good [TS]

00:33:57   reason because it's been a problem for a [TS]

00:33:59   long time [TS]

00:34:00   one of the ways that this problem gets [TS]

00:34:01   avoided in professional equipment with [TS]

00:34:03   team is probably familiar with if you [TS]

00:34:05   look at pro audio gear like really pro [TS]

00:34:08   audio gear there is usually a clock [TS]

00:34:11   input and output port on the back and [TS]

00:34:14   there's there's something you can use [TS]

00:34:15   separate devices for clock generation so [TS]

00:34:18   what they do is they don't rely on [TS]

00:34:20   incredible precision that to make sure [TS]

00:34:22   that this device in this device have [TS]

00:34:24   exactly the same precision on the clock [TS]

00:34:26   ships know that is outsourced the [TS]

00:34:27   problem they did they declare like one [TS]

00:34:29   source of the clock rate to be [TS]

00:34:33   authoritative and they just hardwired [TS]

00:34:35   all to each other and say alright this [TS]

00:34:37   device is providing the clock for me so [TS]

00:34:39   my internal circuitry is not going to do [TS]

00:34:40   it this is the Royal very little about I [TS]

00:34:42   just know this exists so if I am getting [TS]

00:34:44   those details wrong I apologize but [TS]

00:34:46   that's the gist of it that is how that [TS]

00:34:48   world deals with its not by getting [TS]

00:34:50   incredibly press components it's [TS]

00:34:51   simply by outsourcing the problem to one [TS]

00:34:54   device and saying okay you're the master [TS]

00:34:55   of the clock i put this feedback members [TS]

00:34:58   i had the same question when you were [TS]

00:34:59   describing and I was thinking along the [TS]

00:35:01   lines of look the clocks have to be [TS]

00:35:02   pretty darn accurate from one computer [TS]

00:35:05   to the next could be instead that [TS]

00:35:08   because again we're not using real-time [TS]

00:35:09   operating systems here to record our [TS]

00:35:11   audio that it's easy to miss a frame [TS]

00:35:14   here and there because some other things [TS]

00:35:16   happens and it's not a big deal you'll [TS]

00:35:18   never notice it audio wise but if you [TS]

00:35:20   add that up like in other words is [TS]

00:35:21   basically a software problem and not a [TS]

00:35:23   hardware problem that the quartz [TS]

00:35:25   crystals and our computers are all close [TS]

00:35:28   enough to each other that it wouldn't [TS]

00:35:29   matter but our computers aren't hardware [TS]

00:35:31   audio recording devices their general [TS]

00:35:33   purpose computers and in the end it's a [TS]

00:35:34   piece of software that's pulling samples [TS]

00:35:36   off the bus and so many things in the [TS]

00:35:38   middle of it [TS]

00:35:38   missing a few things here in their cars [TS]

00:35:41   but I don't I guess I wouldn't explain [TS]

00:35:42   systemic drift because if it was really [TS]

00:35:43   random area and it was equal a lot of [TS]

00:35:45   computers maybe you would even out [TS]

00:35:47   anyway I don't know the answer either [TS]

00:35:48   you're serious sounds reasonable but i [TS]

00:35:51   have the same questions about like look [TS]

00:35:53   quartz crystals that should be accurate [TS]

00:35:55   matching but then again I didn't know [TS]

00:35:56   about this whole thing of having a clock [TS]

00:35:57   being fed into multiple audio components [TS]

00:35:59   so I don't know what to think so if you [TS]

00:36:01   are an audio person who does audio on [TS]

00:36:03   computers and you know the definitive [TS]

00:36:04   answer please write in and tell us [TS]

00:36:06   yeah that'd be great also forever it's [TS]

00:36:07   worth I've always noticed that laptops [TS]

00:36:11   have way more drift than desktops Mac [TS]

00:36:15   Pros have way less adrift in imax like [TS]

00:36:18   so it does seem to possibly be related [TS]

00:36:20   to just like kind of the quality and the [TS]

00:36:22   end the conditions of the components i [TS]

00:36:25   once I'd like the components like a [TS]

00:36:27   laptop may just be mon under more stress [TS]

00:36:29   like the more likely to be thermal [TS]

00:36:31   throttling up and down and doing other [TS]

00:36:32   stuff like again i would imagine that [TS]

00:36:33   the clock crystals inside the related [TS]

00:36:37   chips and all those things are of equal [TS]

00:36:38   quality but it's not it's where we are [TS]

00:36:40   not solid state audio recording devices [TS]

00:36:43   like a little handheld thing to do it's [TS]

00:36:44   a whole computer in there so so much in [TS]

00:36:46   go wrong between the samples being [TS]

00:36:49   pulled off is really complicated bus and [TS]

00:36:51   then going out to a file so anyway this [TS]

00:36:53   right Intel's but you know we all see [TS]

00:36:55   the results if you want to try the [TS]

00:36:56   experiment yourself feel free do a [TS]

00:36:58   double ender podcast with two friends [TS]

00:37:00   across country and a laptop and try to [TS]

00:37:01   put the audio together and [TS]

00:37:03   realize we're multiplying margos night [TS]

00:37:05   alright let's see here so one of you put [TS]

00:37:09   in here and i'm quoting the arm and mac [TS]

00:37:12   feedback that won't die it won't this [TS]

00:37:15   key people keep suggesting it [TS]

00:37:17   it's been like three months six months [TS]

00:37:19   this is literally will not die and i [TS]

00:37:22   feel like now final game plan we will [TS]

00:37:23   address it quote it's obvious what's [TS]

00:37:26   going on with the mac lineup colon total [TS]

00:37:28   arm reboot this is from a tweak this is [TS]

00:37:31   a concise form of what everyone is [TS]

00:37:32   telling us every time we can plan out [TS]

00:37:34   where the new mags why are they updated [TS]

00:37:35   the mac pro was taking so long with the [TS]

00:37:37   mac pro updates everything says don't [TS]

00:37:39   buy and the mac buying guide thing on [TS]

00:37:41   macrumors site doesn't seem like they [TS]

00:37:43   care about the magnum and everyone's [TS]

00:37:44   like you dummies [TS]

00:37:45   it's because every single mac is being [TS]

00:37:46   converted to our mother is taking a long [TS]

00:37:48   time why don't understand what you don't [TS]

00:37:49   realize that why don't you reply to my [TS]

00:37:51   tweets all the macs are going armed [TS]

00:37:52   maybe maybe all the macs are going armed [TS]

00:37:56   we've just talked about that many many [TS]

00:37:58   times in the past a couple things that [TS]

00:38:02   have to say about that and the reason [TS]

00:38:03   why we don't bring that first always [TS]

00:38:05   talk about our max forever on past shows [TS]

00:38:07   and all the different trade-offs [TS]

00:38:08   inherited we're not going to rehash all [TS]

00:38:09   that right but first of all the macs are [TS]

00:38:13   going arm still kinda doesn't excuse the [TS]

00:38:16   tremendous delay like look at the Intel [TS]

00:38:19   transition they didn't stop selling [TS]

00:38:21   powerpc macs and not update them for [TS]

00:38:23   three years before the transition to x86 [TS]

00:38:25   right and they knew that was coming for [TS]

00:38:27   a long time you sell the old computers [TS]

00:38:29   right along until you tell the world [TS]

00:38:31   hey world we're changing to an [TS]

00:38:33   architecture well in all fairness though [TS]

00:38:35   that's a bad example because back then [TS]

00:38:37   the mac was apple's main product like [TS]

00:38:40   they cared a lot more about it they [TS]

00:38:42   prioritize a lot more engineering-wise [TS]

00:38:44   these days it doesn't seem like it is [TS]

00:38:46   that high priority but it's not a high [TS]

00:38:49   priority is not a primary whether it's [TS]

00:38:50   changing or not and i get back the last [TS]

00:38:52   week's argument of like maybe not high [TS]

00:38:53   enough priority to care to switch to arm [TS]

00:38:55   because then you have to develop arm [TS]

00:38:56   chip suitable for all your Mac line and [TS]

00:38:58   its cost a lot of money but anyway [TS]

00:38:59   second thing is and the the conventional [TS]

00:39:01   wisdom about the arm transition is [TS]

00:39:04   available is going to convert to arm [TS]

00:39:06   they have to essentially pronounce it [TS]

00:39:08   because developers need to get their [TS]

00:39:09   stuff together the same way they [TS]

00:39:10   pronounce the x86 transition they didn't [TS]

00:39:12   announce it and say and you can buy an [TS]

00:39:13   x86 mac today [TS]

00:39:15   nope they had to announce the developers [TS]

00:39:17   first and then developers could get like [TS]

00:39:18   that test hardware was like a was like a [TS]

00:39:20   pentium 4 and a cheese grater case and [TS]

00:39:22   all you know you could make sure you [TS]

00:39:24   recompile your apps and update all the [TS]

00:39:26   tools and blah blah so could be could be [TS]

00:39:29   that Apple is converting their whole [TS]

00:39:31   line to arm but that is not the that is [TS]

00:39:35   not the obvious explanation what's going [TS]

00:39:37   on and it's not even the number one most [TS]

00:39:38   likely explanation is probably like the [TS]

00:39:40   number two or three possible explanation [TS]

00:39:42   and I would be very surprised if Apple [TS]

00:39:45   is converting the entire Mac lined arm [TS]

00:39:48   and didn't tell the world and developers [TS]

00:39:50   before you could buy the hardware so I [TS]

00:39:53   don't know anyone you have anything else [TS]

00:39:55   to add about this is eternal feedback [TS]

00:39:57   that that tells us we're adults are not [TS]

00:39:59   realizing it's a complete army boot like [TS]

00:40:01   it's a nice idea if you don't think [TS]

00:40:02   about it for too long or if you're not [TS]

00:40:04   familiar with this will be involved or [TS]

00:40:06   or like the markets here I just don't [TS]

00:40:08   think it's realistic [TS]

00:40:09   I I don't think there's enough to say [TS]

00:40:11   that Apple couldn't release a whole line [TS]

00:40:14   of our max but that's probably good [TS]

00:40:16   yeah as we've talked about and and we're [TS]

00:40:18   you know we're all under the impression [TS]

00:40:19   that they probably have armed os10 [TS]

00:40:22   running the labs and have for some time [TS]

00:40:23   they probably just maintain it as like a [TS]

00:40:25   parallel just in case branch but there [TS]

00:40:28   really is just not a lot of motivation [TS]

00:40:29   for them to do that right now and as we [TS]

00:40:32   discussed you know i'll summarize it [TS]

00:40:33   briefly basically it would take a lot of [TS]

00:40:36   work would have a lot of downsides and [TS]

00:40:38   intelligent isn't bad enough yet [TS]

00:40:40   yeah and i'm meghan everyone getting [TS]

00:40:42   back to his like our max yes know [TS]

00:40:45   whatever but the delay in updating all [TS]

00:40:48   the max is unrelated [TS]

00:40:50   because like there's no reason why you [TS]

00:40:52   would say because we're doing the arm [TS]

00:40:53   thing therefore we're going to delay [TS]

00:40:55   it's not as if they would say we we [TS]

00:40:56   don't have time to update those old [TS]

00:40:58   cruddy max we're gonna take every person [TS]

00:41:00   who was working on Mac hardware before [TS]

00:41:01   and put them all on the Armed hard right [TS]

00:41:04   then you know it's it does it doesn't [TS]

00:41:06   make any sense and also because there [TS]

00:41:07   had been massive delays in the past like [TS]

00:41:09   the cheese grater mac pro not being [TS]

00:41:11   updated forever and that wasn't [TS]

00:41:12   explained by an army boot either just [TS]

00:41:14   playing out like there's so many more [TS]

00:41:16   explicable reasons about sky like having [TS]

00:41:18   bugs and taking a long time to come out [TS]

00:41:19   and being delayed and then skipping [TS]

00:41:20   generations like those are the actual [TS]

00:41:22   reasons why there's a delay even if they [TS]

00:41:24   come out with a complete arm reboot in a [TS]

00:41:26   month i will still say this theory is [TS]

00:41:27   wrong [TS]

00:41:28   right because all those delays were not [TS]

00:41:29   related to the arm reboot they're [TS]

00:41:31   related to all things we've talked about [TS]

00:41:32   so many times they're not does not [TS]

00:41:33   speculation that they skip generations [TS]

00:41:35   they did they skip them and then it's [TS]

00:41:37   not speculation that sky like it was [TS]

00:41:38   delayed and had rollout problems that's [TS]

00:41:40   a real thing that happened that alone is [TS]

00:41:42   sufficient to explain the the delay and [TS]

00:41:44   what we're complaining about in the past [TS]

00:41:45   shows is Apple don't skip generations if [TS]

00:41:48   you do any bump and Intel's plan makes [TS]

00:41:50   your computer's embarrassingly late [TS]

00:41:52   bingo and by the way update your gps [TS]

00:41:55   haha in in the other thing I just want [TS]

00:42:00   to throw in there really quickly is that [TS]

00:42:02   it's been for me personally less than [TS]

00:42:05   issues since my new job in since i'm [TS]

00:42:07   doing iOS development but in my last job [TS]

00:42:10   and that job or two before that as well [TS]

00:42:13   as all of the developers generally [TS]

00:42:16   speaking used macs but they all lived in [TS]

00:42:20   vmware fusion or parallels or on [TS]

00:42:23   VirtualBox if they really hated their [TS]

00:42:25   lives and virtualizing against the same [TS]

00:42:30   chipset is fairly easy you know to have [TS]

00:42:33   OS 10 running on x86 and then virtualize [TS]

00:42:35   windows which is also running on x86 [TS]

00:42:37   that's fairly straightforward and easy [TS]

00:42:38   if this was an armed Mac trying to [TS]

00:42:42   virtualize x86 that would have just [TS]

00:42:43   slowed everything down tremendously in [TS]

00:42:45   all likelihood and would really be a [TS]

00:42:49   potentially very bad thing for business [TS]

00:42:52   users that need to have the MS even [TS]

00:42:54   business users that need EMS not for [TS]

00:42:56   their day-to-day but for their one old [TS]

00:42:58   legacy app that only runs on ie6 and so [TS]

00:43:01   they need to boot into XP in a vm to use [TS]

00:43:04   that one app like that happened a lot in [TS]

00:43:07   in past jobs and maybe if it's just that [TS]

00:43:10   one a pin and ie6 you can deal with it [TS]

00:43:12   being slow but I mean up until this job [TS]

00:43:14   i lived in vmware fusion and i was [TS]

00:43:16   developing in vmware fusion and it would [TS]

00:43:19   probably be a lot worse if the mac in [TS]

00:43:22   which i was using wasn't Intel and to [TS]

00:43:25   the point that I would probably have to [TS]

00:43:26   use some crappy Dowler when / or [TS]

00:43:28   something like that and that would be [TS]

00:43:29   just said microphone did take a run of [TS]

00:43:32   his arm transition with the whatever the [TS]

00:43:34   windows forearm thing for the surface [TS]

00:43:35   thing and that's not going to i grant [TS]

00:43:38   they did badly they didn't commit [TS]

00:43:40   they're just like well we're also [TS]

00:43:41   having our version of windows that's [TS]

00:43:43   cool right guys and the the market was [TS]

00:43:45   like not not that cool because we need [TS]

00:43:47   to run or x86 software yeah the only way [TS]

00:43:49   to do is the way Apple does it was like [TS]

00:43:50   look for changes everything from 68 a [TS]

00:43:52   powerpc get on board and if they doing [TS]

00:43:54   on transition on Mac I feel like going [TS]

00:43:56   to the same thing they're not gonna let [TS]

00:43:57   the two computers live on which will [TS]

00:43:59   mean exactly Casey said if you've gotta [TS]

00:44:00   run that x86 virtualization you're gonna [TS]

00:44:03   be super sad and it's the i'm not going [TS]

00:44:05   to be it's not gonna be feasible it's [TS]

00:44:07   gonna be like the bad old days when Iran [TS]

00:44:08   virtual pc to an x86 software on powerpc [TS]

00:44:10   and it was so slow just stores do you [TS]

00:44:16   remember I think we talked about this [TS]

00:44:17   year at some point but they had the like [TS]

00:44:19   daughter cards for old old old max I [TS]

00:44:21   remember hearing about this when I was a [TS]

00:44:23   kid and I had like 46 is on them [TS]

00:44:25   yeah yeah it's like a whole pc on a card [TS]

00:44:27   yeah right well right and this was just [TS]

00:44:30   so that I so that you could have a [TS]

00:44:32   somewhat livable virtualization [TS]

00:44:33   experience on ancient max alright one [TS]

00:44:36   last piece of follow-up and then we we [TS]

00:44:38   are finally done we're still fuckable I [TS]

00:44:40   don't especially since we recorded what [TS]

00:44:42   two nights ago three nights ago how is [TS]

00:44:43   this possible these are topics come on [TS]

00:44:45   these are just these are really just [TS]

00:44:46   hopping all these are all I i can i can [TS]

00:44:48   justify everything one of these for [TS]

00:44:50   being follow-up and so can you because [TS]

00:44:51   you know what they're about Apple is [TS]

00:44:53   follow-up I was we talked about it last [TS]

00:44:54   episode III have issues with long [TS]

00:44:57   follow-up it just so happens that we [TS]

00:44:58   have long following beltro and will.i.am [TS]

00:45:01   which we sort of kind of new and gary [TS]

00:45:03   vaynerchuk i hope i pronounced that [TS]

00:45:04   right you did are going to be the [TS]

00:45:06   advisors for planet of the apps that was [TS]

00:45:09   just announce that today or yesterday [TS]

00:45:10   sometime recently as we record them [TS]

00:45:12   serving as an open but with paltrow is [TS]

00:45:15   going to be a mentor to the contestants [TS]

00:45:16   so I guess she's there for like just [TS]

00:45:18   moral support and like motivates them [TS]

00:45:20   i'm not quite sure what her credentials [TS]

00:45:21   are to help people develop applications [TS]

00:45:23   but like you go guys anyway she's famous [TS]

00:45:25   and then check it check is a PVC so he [TS]

00:45:31   guesses on the b-side of the shark tank [TS]

00:45:33   vents will.i.am is famous person who [TS]

00:45:36   likes apple whose work with Apple a lot [TS]

00:45:37   on his entertainment industry person I [TS]

00:45:39   guess that's relevant to building apps [TS]

00:45:41   if you really entertainment and they [TS]

00:45:44   will serve as advisors not sure it's [TS]

00:45:45   different than a mentor [TS]

00:45:46   anyway if you're wondering who they're [TS]

00:45:48   going to be on the show banner check i [TS]

00:45:50   could have like that's right up the the [TS]

00:45:51   middle of what i was expecting like pcs [TS]

00:45:53   who want to promote [TS]

00:45:54   themselves in their be serious well [TS]

00:45:56   their check is not quite really a VC [TS]

00:45:58   he's he does his own stuff he's like a [TS]

00:46:01   business consultant he came up through [TS]

00:46:03   like the through wine library TV and [TS]

00:46:05   then like came up and develop kind of [TS]

00:46:06   dislike promotional company with like a [TS]

00:46:09   bunch of his own media projects and he's [TS]

00:46:10   basically media personality and a [TS]

00:46:12   business speaker and business consultant [TS]

00:46:15   and everything that he did you worked [TS]

00:46:17   with and benjamin has a different no [TS]

00:46:18   that's dancing home i believe but [TS]

00:46:20   alright Eric no guarantee he he he got [TS]

00:46:24   famous by having this really quite [TS]

00:46:25   amazing very early video series i don't [TS]

00:46:29   even know it was on you i think it was [TS]

00:46:30   on youtube but i'm not positive called [TS]

00:46:32   wine library TV he his family owns this [TS]

00:46:35   big wine retailer in New Jersey and [TS]

00:46:38   every day he would just go and do like [TS]

00:46:41   this like five minute video tastes like [TS]

00:46:43   featuring a couple of wires using from [TS]

00:46:45   like a really like New Jersey like [TS]

00:46:48   middle-class approach to wine so it's [TS]

00:46:51   like very like like note like low BS [TS]

00:46:53   like reviewing low-cost stuff like and [TS]

00:46:56   he was very good at describing how it [TS]

00:46:57   tasted like how this tastes like grass [TS]

00:46:59   and like it like he was really he was [TS]

00:47:01   surprisingly charismatic and excellent [TS]

00:47:03   at this seemingly boring topic of wine [TS]

00:47:06   reviews anyway so then his whole career [TS]

00:47:08   kind of balloon after that of like you [TS]

00:47:11   know being it's like an outrageous like [TS]

00:47:13   loud guy who promotes stuff and talk to [TS]

00:47:15   businesses about how to do stuff but [TS]

00:47:17   actually i would say of the of this list [TS]

00:47:19   of people he is probably by far the most [TS]

00:47:22   qualified to judge people on how to [TS]

00:47:25   learn how to do their app stuff below I [TS]

00:47:27   i have i but i have not followed his [TS]

00:47:29   work very closely recently but from what [TS]

00:47:32   he is on the past he's definitely more [TS]

00:47:35   related and and is better knowing like [TS]

00:47:39   how to promote stuff real-time follow [TS]

00:47:41   gary vaynerchuk did by Corky bought it [TS]

00:47:43   from the two that up i'm dancing Roman [TS]

00:47:46   dan Benjamin yeah and by the way I found [TS]

00:47:48   this out by googling and the homicide [TS]

00:47:50   wine cast dotnet brief aside if we could [TS]

00:47:53   all go to one cast that net everybody [TS]

00:47:55   and look at the logo in the upper [TS]

00:47:57   left-hand corner do not make your logo [TS]

00:48:00   look like a condo [TS]

00:48:02   oh wow gracious that within tiny little [TS]

00:48:05   sperm like [TS]

00:48:06   crawling its way better job on cast [TS]

00:48:08   hello I'm also seeing a PHP warning [TS]

00:48:10   being admitted into the page on top [TS]

00:48:12   yeah mysql don't feel it's best [TS]

00:48:14   parameter 1 to be resource boolean given [TS]

00:48:16   wow that's fine [TS]

00:48:19   anyway that log right so yes it's [TS]

00:48:22   gerrymander shock [TS]

00:48:23   well i am who i believe we had already [TS]

00:48:25   known was involved with this from a like [TS]

00:48:28   producer standpoint or something or [TS]

00:48:30   advisor something yeah and like you said [TS]

00:48:33   going to show so i don't know i mean i [TS]

00:48:36   don't think this is really meant for us [TS]

00:48:38   and we talked about this a lot in the [TS]

00:48:39   past we need to go into this too much [TS]

00:48:40   but i don't think this is a showman for [TS]

00:48:41   us i think it's in theory show meant for [TS]

00:48:44   people who are not really in the [TS]

00:48:46   industry but i'm i'm curious to see it i [TS]

00:48:50   will certainly watch just like you know [TS]

00:48:52   the new top here i will watch an episode [TS]

00:48:53   or two and assuming it is not apple [TS]

00:48:56   music so i guess maybe I can't because I [TS]

00:48:59   don't subscribe to that music don't know [TS]

00:49:00   if i can i will you watch it with my [TS]

00:49:02   flex server you have anything that i [TS]

00:49:05   will watch an episode or two and I i [TS]

00:49:08   suspect it will not be very good but you [TS]

00:49:10   know what you don't know until you try [TS]

00:49:11   so we'll see what happens I watching for [TS]

00:49:12   Gary Vee I like him so i will gladly [TS]

00:49:15   watch it for him [TS]

00:49:16   fair enough all right at this point I [TS]

00:49:18   think we are officially out of follow-up [TS]

00:49:19   so what else is awesome these days who [TS]

00:49:21   need a break in a cigarette now I don't [TS]

00:49:25   smoke [TS]

00:49:25   neither one of us do but i can see John [TS]

00:49:29   like sneaking under the under the deck [TS]

00:49:31   or something [TS]

00:49:32   smoking another least likely thing that [TS]

00:49:36   will ever see me doing the height of if [TS]

00:49:40   any of the three of us had a secret [TS]

00:49:41   smoking habit [TS]

00:49:42   John be by far the most amusing 12 have [TS]

00:49:44   to goodness this smoking out like under [TS]

00:49:50   the tree to drop the acorns hitting [TS]

00:49:51   every so often thought to be the trees [TS]

00:49:55   all the trees defeated for the most part [TS]

00:49:57   all that the limbs are cut off one [TS]

00:49:59   questionable then when I look up might [TS]

00:50:01   still be in line of sight but a lot of [TS]

00:50:03   that tree is all gone [TS]

00:50:04   that's ok we solve that problem before I [TS]

00:50:07   want for my wife's new accord not safe [TS]

00:50:08   for ferrari because I don't you want to [TS]

00:50:10   leave that outside in the winter and you [TS]

00:50:11   don't squeeze it into my garage [TS]

00:50:12   ok [TS]

00:50:15   we also sponsor this week by Harry's go [TS]

00:50:18   to Harry's dot-com / ATP to five dollars [TS]

00:50:21   off your first purchase no reason [TS]

00:50:23   companies keep putting out new models [TS]

00:50:25   and raising their already high prices [TS]

00:50:27   well Harry's does not believe in up [TS]

00:50:29   charging they just made a bunch of [TS]

00:50:31   improvements to their razors and they're [TS]

00:50:32   keeping prices exactly the same so it's [TS]

00:50:35   still just two dollars per blade [TS]

00:50:37   cartridge compared to four or more [TS]

00:50:38   dollars you will pay for the big brands [TS]

00:50:40   of the drugstore so he's five blade [TS]

00:50:42   razors now these new improvements now [TS]

00:50:44   include they still the same five blades [TS]

00:50:46   they now have a softer flex hinge for [TS]

00:50:48   more comfortable glide they have a [TS]

00:50:49   trimmer blade for hard-to-reach places [TS]

00:50:51   they have a lubricating strip on one [TS]

00:50:53   side and a textured handle for more [TS]

00:50:55   control when it's wet so that it had [TS]

00:50:57   like a rubber grip on the handle now so [TS]

00:50:59   Harry's was founded by two friends to [TS]

00:51:01   offer people a great shave at fair [TS]

00:51:03   prices razors they were there they [TS]

00:51:05   market them mostly towards men however [TS]

00:51:07   we hear from lots of women [TS]

00:51:09   these are really unisex razors and women [TS]

00:51:10   can women use them too and they are [TS]

00:51:12   great for both now qualities a hundred [TS]

00:51:15   percent guaranteed if you don't love [TS]

00:51:16   your shade Harry's will fully refund [TS]

00:51:18   your money and these these blades are [TS]

00:51:21   made in this incredible German blade [TS]

00:51:23   factory that Harry's bought and they [TS]

00:51:25   sell their own razors direct from this [TS]

00:51:27   factory and because of selling directly [TS]

00:51:29   on the factory and there's no retailer [TS]

00:51:31   anything else they literally charge you [TS]

00:51:33   half the price or less of what you're [TS]

00:51:35   paying at the drugstore for similar for [TS]

00:51:37   similar blades from big brands forget [TS]

00:51:39   the starter set today this to the harry [TS]

00:51:41   started as an amazing deal you get a [TS]

00:51:43   weighted razor handle of your choice [TS]

00:51:44   moisturizing shave cream three [TS]

00:51:47   precision-engineered five blade [TS]

00:51:48   cartridges and travel cover off for just [TS]

00:51:51   15 bucks and that's 15 bucks at the [TS]

00:51:54   regular price but again if you go to [TS]

00:51:56   Harry's calm / ATP you will get five [TS]

00:51:59   dollars off your first purchase that [TS]

00:52:00   means you could get this article for [TS]

00:52:02   just ten bucks that would be ten bucks [TS]

00:52:03   to cover handle shaving cream and three [TS]

00:52:06   blade cartridges [TS]

00:52:07   that's incredible that's incredible deal [TS]

00:52:09   so right now go to Harry's calm / ATP to [TS]

00:52:11   claim that deal that's Harry's calm / [TS]

00:52:13   ATP thanks a lot [TS]

00:52:18   there's a rumor that apple has pivoted [TS]

00:52:21   their brand a hand is going to be taking [TS]

00:52:25   a different approach to the apple TV as [TS]

00:52:29   in like the setup the the television set [TS]

00:52:31   sort of that again again recode reports [TS]

00:52:35   that they're going to make the most [TS]

00:52:37   baller TV Guide ever at the growth [TS]

00:52:40   industry the right and I guess the plan [TS]

00:52:43   is to be able to let you search and no [TS]

00:52:47   matter where the thing you're looking [TS]

00:52:49   for maybe get paid or not or whatever it [TS]

00:52:53   will figure out a way to get it to you [TS]

00:52:56   presumably through your existing [TS]

00:52:58   accounts like Netflix whatever which i [TS]

00:52:59   think it can do already but also perhaps [TS]

00:53:02   by partnerships with some of the [TS]

00:53:05   traditional TV folks like maybe ABC or [TS]

00:53:07   CBS or something like that so I mean [TS]

00:53:10   this is kinda cool and I would certainly [TS]

00:53:14   be interested in it but I mean like you [TS]

00:53:16   said Marko this is I don't know TV I [TS]

00:53:19   don't want to say it's not long for this [TS]

00:53:21   world because I mean it's been around [TS]

00:53:22   for a long time on Cinco see it going [TS]

00:53:24   away that soon but I mean is this the [TS]

00:53:27   the sign of major changes and how we [TS]

00:53:30   consume our television I mean that in [TS]

00:53:31   netflix and and and an Amazon creating [TS]

00:53:35   their own television shows and I what do [TS]

00:53:38   you think this seems like kind of [TS]

00:53:40   extension of what they're already trying [TS]

00:53:42   to do with the apple TV they already [TS]

00:53:43   have Universal Search and it is i think [TS]

00:53:45   it is still limited to partners only on [TS]

00:53:48   the appletv at least it's not an iOS app [TS]

00:53:50   so that they already have like you know [TS]

00:53:52   cross provider search with Cirie and and [TS]

00:53:56   being being able to search for a TV show [TS]

00:53:58   or movie or whatever and say alright [TS]

00:54:00   well it's available on netflix on HBO go [TS]

00:54:02   and for my to like they can already list [TS]

00:54:04   all this like that's already there so if [TS]

00:54:07   this is just kind of an extension of [TS]

00:54:08   that our expansion of that that's great [TS]

00:54:11   you know that's that's good [TS]

00:54:13   I i would question their ability to get [TS]

00:54:16   these deals though because it seems like [TS]

00:54:18   we've been hearing reports for what [TS]

00:54:20   three years now that Apple keeps trying [TS]

00:54:23   to make like a TV service like one grand [TS]

00:54:26   new TV service to rule them all [TS]

00:54:28   oh you know or something along those [TS]

00:54:29   lines [TS]

00:54:31   honestly I you know like there's a story [TS]

00:54:33   writers making fun of you know last week [TS]

00:54:35   whenever about it about a eq walk into [TS]

00:54:38   the meeting with TV executives wearing [TS]

00:54:40   like shoes without socks and a Hawaiian [TS]

00:54:42   shirt and jeans whatever whatever it was [TS]

00:54:44   and apples basically like you know where [TS]

00:54:47   Apple screw you [TS]

00:54:48   method of negotiation with TV companies [TS]

00:54:50   and who knows that was real or not you [TS]

00:54:52   know we don't really know and how [TS]

00:54:54   accurate that was you know those a story [TS]

00:54:56   source from TV executives by the way [TS]

00:54:58   exactly so like of course they're gonna [TS]

00:55:00   say the other side was unreasonable in [TS]

00:55:01   our negotiation and they were the wrong [TS]

00:55:03   clothes [TS]

00:55:03   exactly so chances are you know it [TS]

00:55:07   those details are probably probably not [TS]

00:55:08   a hundred percent accurate but it was [TS]

00:55:10   probably just a bit you know like it [TS]

00:55:12   there is very likely that was the gist [TS]

00:55:14   of what happened and we've heard similar [TS]

00:55:16   attitudes we've heard of that before [TS]

00:55:18   from both a DQ and apple so it wouldn't [TS]

00:55:21   surprise me if this is if the gist of [TS]

00:55:23   this is true i would say that the TV TV [TS]

00:55:26   companies are being more unreasonable [TS]

00:55:27   these scenarios that like it from if you [TS]

00:55:29   are as he becomes it seems like apples [TS]

00:55:31   being unreasonable because Apple is not [TS]

00:55:32   budging on things they want you to do [TS]

00:55:34   that you're never gonna do but if you [TS]

00:55:36   were to be a third party outside [TS]

00:55:37   observer and say what things are TV the [TS]

00:55:40   TV people never going to do what things [TS]

00:55:42   apple want you would say it's probably [TS]

00:55:45   better for everyone involved [TS]

00:55:47   at least it's probably better for us as [TS]

00:55:48   the consumer if you if TV companies you [TS]

00:55:50   did what Apple s but the question is is [TS]

00:55:52   it better for the TV companies and maybe [TS]

00:55:54   maybe not so that's why we don't have a [TS]

00:55:55   deal [TS]

00:55:56   well that's the thing i mean like we've [TS]

00:55:57   heard for years now that Apple is you [TS]

00:56:00   know there's they're working on that on [TS]

00:56:02   this new thing and the details with a [TS]

00:56:04   new thing is shift slightly over time [TS]

00:56:06   but the just has been the same they're [TS]

00:56:08   working on some kind of TV plan that [TS]

00:56:10   unifies multiple TV sources and [TS]

00:56:11   something rather you know whether thats [TS]

00:56:13   related to the new Apple TV or not [TS]

00:56:14   that's been the plan for years now and [TS]

00:56:17   it just seems like they aren't getting [TS]

00:56:19   the deals and so maybe this approach [TS]

00:56:23   they're taking two deal-making they're [TS]

00:56:25   walking in there as though they own the [TS]

00:56:27   place and I think at one time in like [TS]

00:56:30   maybe they did at one time have that [TS]

00:56:32   kind of power in certain industries but [TS]

00:56:34   I think it's pretty clear that what [TS]

00:56:36   they're doing isn't working and so when [TS]

00:56:38   we see another report that says i will [TS]

00:56:40   now the new thing is they're gonna be [TS]

00:56:42   this this version of this [TS]

00:56:44   man well show me show me any evidence [TS]

00:56:46   from the past that we should believe [TS]

00:56:48   that on this like there there's nothing [TS]

00:56:50   well that that's why they are pivoting [TS]

00:56:51   though because they failed with the [TS]

00:56:52   press departures are not sticking to the [TS]

00:56:54   past approaches there are pivoting and [TS]

00:56:55   trying new things but like I in some [TS]

00:56:57   respects I think Apple still feels like [TS]

00:56:58   time is on their side and they may be [TS]

00:57:00   right because the holdouts and all this [TS]

00:57:03   are not the netflixs of the world but [TS]

00:57:04   it's like the ABC NBC disney you know [TS]

00:57:07   CBS like those are the the difficult [TS]

00:57:10   ones there and all local television and [TS]

00:57:11   all the deals we don't think so [TS]

00:57:13   apples apples most recent pivot that we [TS]

00:57:15   have in front of us and our houses now [TS]

00:57:16   is like the future if you use apps and [TS]

00:57:18   we make apple TV and on your Apple TV [TS]

00:57:19   you can find an app for Major League [TS]

00:57:21   Baseball you can find the NFL app you [TS]

00:57:22   can find out for ABC CBS netflix [TS]

00:57:24   Showtime HBO like that's what you can [TS]

00:57:27   find and this I wouldn't even call this [TS]

00:57:29   a pivot but this latest rumor is [TS]

00:57:30   basically that Apple's new approach sort [TS]

00:57:34   of their version of the omnivorous box [TS]

00:57:37   that talked about in the last show like [TS]

00:57:38   we will take an all content and provide [TS]

00:57:40   you one unified interface like the [TS]

00:57:41   current apple TV is like here's your [TS]

00:57:43   unified interface it's a bunch of [TS]

00:57:44   rounded rectangles is not a great [TS]

00:57:46   unified interface and you can do see [TS]

00:57:48   research across them and you know like [TS]

00:57:50   like as this article says like they [TS]

00:57:51   already have a thing where people who [TS]

00:57:53   make the disney a poor the ESPN app or [TS]

00:57:55   the NFL app if you use apples api's and [TS]

00:57:58   make your information searchable that [TS]

00:58:00   when you say show me whatever that the [TS]

00:58:02   appletv can search across all of them [TS]

00:58:04   but it's not quite the same as a TV [TS]

00:58:05   Guide like a lot of what a lot of people [TS]

00:58:06   want to do do is say what's on or [TS]

00:58:09   whatever that the series that are [TS]

00:58:11   currently running that are popular like [TS]

00:58:12   we can imagine a much better interface [TS]

00:58:13   to television uh that is independent of [TS]

00:58:16   where the show has come from tivo does [TS]

00:58:18   this as many people are running about 20 [TS]

00:58:19   people has a thing where you can search [TS]

00:58:20   for stuff and it's like here's the show [TS]

00:58:22   is airing these episodes these five or [TS]

00:58:24   streaming you this season passes show [TS]

00:58:25   but different icons to see where you can [TS]

00:58:26   get them from but like that's what we [TS]

00:58:28   all want we don't want to have to switch [TS]

00:58:29   inputs you on one unified interest [TS]

00:58:30   everything the old way which apple [TS]

00:58:32   declined to participate in which is [TS]

00:58:34   still think would have been a good idea [TS]

00:58:35   because it shows so far no one has been [TS]

00:58:36   able to do it so they could have been [TS]

00:58:37   doing that old thing anyway is to just [TS]

00:58:40   be a box it takes input from all the [TS]

00:58:42   different places but nowadays TV doesn't [TS]

00:58:44   come from all these different sources [TS]

00:58:46   from cable from these are like it comes [TS]

00:58:48   the increasingly across the internet but [TS]

00:58:50   there's still this whole things that [TS]

00:58:52   come across you know that all the [TS]

00:58:53   television networks as you still have [TS]

00:58:55   the [TS]

00:58:55   similar on the response program but [TS]

00:58:57   Apple has been able to persuade the [TS]

00:58:58   networks of the most part to put apps on [TS]

00:59:00   their platform like we're getting close [TS]

00:59:02   guys right all we need to do the last [TS]

00:59:04   thing is to give people like a unified [TS]

00:59:06   interface to that call that programming [TS]

00:59:08   across all these apps only instead of [TS]

00:59:11   the interface being here is a bunch of [TS]

00:59:12   rounded rectangles arrangement how you [TS]

00:59:14   want and pick the one you want or [TS]

00:59:15   talking to this terrible remote control [TS]

00:59:17   and try to find the show you want we [TS]

00:59:19   want to provide more people are kind of [TS]

00:59:20   used to like a guide maybe doesn't look [TS]

00:59:21   like the big grid or whatever and we [TS]

00:59:23   will we will be the face of television [TS]

00:59:24   two people in the same way that tebow is [TS]

00:59:26   the face of television anyone who had [TS]

00:59:27   tivo especially days before streaming [TS]

00:59:29   services but even with the streaming [TS]

00:59:30   services kind of course but you gotta go [TS]

00:59:32   find the client but anyway Apple wants [TS]

00:59:34   to be the face of television the one [TS]

00:59:35   unified interface the one box you never [TS]

00:59:37   changing but it's always an opportunity [TS]

00:59:38   to watch whatever you want to do that [TS]

00:59:40   they need to make deals the deals are [TS]

00:59:43   not happening because most deals are [TS]

00:59:44   probably not in the interest of the [TS]

00:59:45   networks and you can imagine for the [TS]

00:59:46   network like if your only interest was [TS]

00:59:49   we are the network we want to survive as [TS]

00:59:53   a thing that can extract money I think [TS]

00:59:56   there's a lot of problems that long term [TS]

00:59:57   anyway but it's a never-give-up the [TS]

00:59:59   primacy [TS]

00:59:59   primacy [TS]

01:00:00   of you know that never give up the [TS]

01:00:01   interface to television to apple like [TS]

01:00:03   don't don't let them be the face of [TS]

01:00:05   television they are just decreasing your [TS]

01:00:07   value making you just one more source of [TS]

01:00:09   content and then the only value have is [TS]

01:00:11   your ability to produce quality content [TS]

01:00:13   that people want to watch and network [TS]

01:00:15   television are for the most part is [TS]

01:00:17   terrified of that because historically [TS]

01:00:19   have not been really good at that and [TS]

01:00:21   it's only because of the legacy of the [TS]

01:00:22   fact that they have the certain [TS]

01:00:23   frequencies in the airwaves that their [TS]

01:00:24   ABC NBC CBS and you know fox or whatever [TS]

01:00:27   and all the Fox could arguably got its [TS]

01:00:29   place by having quality content they're [TS]

01:00:31   being out completed by HBO and Netflix [TS]

01:00:34   and Amazon for crying out loud in some [TS]

01:00:37   cases in the hey can we make interesting [TS]

01:00:39   content that people want to watch if [TS]

01:00:41   that's the only competition if it's like [TS]

01:00:42   apples the interface and the program's [TS]

01:00:45   come from the services that you pay for [TS]

01:00:47   and you pay for the service that has the [TS]

01:00:49   show's you want the networks are like [TS]

01:00:51   little people are gonna pay to watch [TS]

01:00:52   NCIS colon some other word people are [TS]

01:00:56   really old and they're dying and [TS]

01:00:58   everyone else is watching you know game [TS]

01:01:01   of thrones on streaming services and so [TS]

01:01:02   the course to clarify that future but in [TS]

01:01:04   the meantime that basically means that [TS]

01:01:06   Apple strategy of like we are the [TS]

01:01:07   unified interface to all your television [TS]

01:01:09   is a no-go because there's still enough [TS]

01:01:10   television particularly live television [TS]

01:01:13   local news and sports that is tied up [TS]

01:01:14   between between behind owners and [TS]

01:01:18   contracts for companies that don't want [TS]

01:01:21   to be basically disenfranchised so i [TS]

01:01:24   don't know if this latest strategy of [TS]

01:01:25   Apple is Iran I guess it's better than [TS]

01:01:27   the old ones at least you can do [TS]

01:01:28   something but I don't know if he's ever [TS]

01:01:30   going to work and I think the whole like [TS]

01:01:31   we'll finally we don't have a deal that [TS]

01:01:33   was trying to wait them out it's like [TS]

01:01:34   look we don't have to do anything [TS]

01:01:37   network television everything netflix [TS]

01:01:39   and HBO and showtime and amazon and AMC [TS]

01:01:43   and all these other cable companies are [TS]

01:01:45   just nibbling get coming at you from all [TS]

01:01:48   sides [TS]

01:01:48   they're making better content there's [TS]

01:01:50   more of them people who are willing to [TS]

01:01:51   pay for their services where is the only [TS]

01:01:53   willing to pay for you as part of a [TS]

01:01:54   bundle you get to be over the air but [TS]

01:01:56   that like all this legacy stuff like [TS]

01:01:58   we'll just wait out and so I feel like [TS]

01:01:59   Apple is walking away from the table [TS]

01:02:00   with your flip-flops and hawaiian-style [TS]

01:02:01   shirt and saying all right let me try [TS]

01:02:03   made we made another run out of this [TS]

01:02:05   time but time is on our side every for [TS]

01:02:08   every year you refuse to do a deal with [TS]

01:02:10   us your competitors make you less and [TS]

01:02:12   less relevant [TS]

01:02:13   and when the generation of kids that's [TS]

01:02:14   born today grows up they're not gonna [TS]

01:02:16   care what the hell you are and all their [TS]

01:02:18   shows are going to be another networks [TS]

01:02:19   and once that happens we have good [TS]

01:02:20   relationships with the netflixs of the [TS]

01:02:22   world and they're already honor at [TS]

01:02:24   platform we just need to make really [TS]

01:02:26   good at platform they haven't quite done [TS]

01:02:27   that yet but in the meantime we will [TS]

01:02:29   just keep sliding that terrible remote [TS]

01:02:31   around are rectangles being careful not [TS]

01:02:33   to ever touch while watching TV don't [TS]

01:02:34   touch it you messed everything up [TS]

01:02:36   honestly I do you do you think this is [TS]

01:02:39   more about UI control or more about just [TS]

01:02:43   money if I had to take yes I don't think [TS]

01:02:46   the TV's give it two craps about the UI [TS]

01:02:48   I think it's all about it all comes down [TS]

01:02:49   to money [TS]

01:02:50   yep it's not that it's not all the money [TS]

01:02:52   is the reason Apple into the deal [TS]

01:02:53   because they the other companies won't [TS]

01:02:55   do a deal that Apple Apple want to do is [TS]

01:02:57   palatable to customers and the parties [TS]

01:02:59   have to be involved in that deal want [TS]

01:03:01   more money like Apple have to charge you [TS]

01:03:03   much more that's why this is never that [TS]

01:03:05   that's basically it comes down to see [TS]

01:03:06   right does come down to money but like [TS]

01:03:07   why do the the network's want so much [TS]

01:03:09   money because they don't it's it's not [TS]

01:03:11   like the USA just don't want to be taken [TS]

01:03:12   out of the equation they want to be them [TS]

01:03:14   they want you to go to move your little [TS]

01:03:15   rectangle to go to the ABC app they want [TS]

01:03:17   you to know that ABC is a thing a brand [TS]

01:03:19   that means something that the shows on [TS]

01:03:21   ABC like they don't want you to just say [TS]

01:03:25   what's on and see a giant [TS]

01:03:26   undifferentiated great with maybe an ABC [TS]

01:03:28   logo somewhere on it and just say this [TS]

01:03:29   is all television and i will pick the [TS]

01:03:31   show I want to watch because again that [TS]

01:03:32   reduces them entirely to the quality of [TS]

01:03:34   the shows they produce and they don't [TS]

01:03:35   want that because they need they need [TS]

01:03:37   the the other intangible BS branding [TS]

01:03:41   stuff to prop up the fact that they make [TS]

01:03:44   more shows than other people like they [TS]

01:03:45   did it used to be the fact that like [TS]

01:03:47   they are channel 4 and they come over [TS]

01:03:49   the airwaves and they're one of the five [TS]

01:03:50   sets of channels that coming good on [TS]

01:03:52   your little rabbit ears and therefore [TS]

01:03:54   they have a default importance that you [TS]

01:03:56   cannot argue with even if all their [TS]

01:03:57   shows are crap if they're just another [TS]

01:04:00   provider of video behind a unified [TS]

01:04:02   interface undifferentiated on made not [TS]

01:04:05   any different than any of the other [TS]

01:04:06   services that some of which may not even [TS]

01:04:08   be recording corte-real TV stations like [TS]

01:04:10   Amazon that's not good for them so [TS]

01:04:13   that's you know that you're right the [TS]

01:04:15   money i think is definitely a part of NY [TS]

01:04:17   the deals don't happen but why they want [TS]

01:04:18   so much money what's the big deal [TS]

01:04:20   because if if they're going to give up [TS]

01:04:23   that role they want to be paid for [TS]

01:04:24   handsomely because you know [TS]

01:04:25   they're CBS or whatever I feel like this [TS]

01:04:29   is AT&T the iphone or singular at the [TS]

01:04:31   time in the iphone all over again it's [TS]

01:04:34   not exactly analogous because i think it [TS]

01:04:38   to my recollection AT&T or singular the [TS]

01:04:40   time was was really not doing terribly [TS]

01:04:43   well in verizon's just eating their [TS]

01:04:44   lunch and I think they were kind of on [TS]

01:04:47   the ropes and knew it and to their [TS]

01:04:49   credit they have the wherewithal to know [TS]

01:04:50   that they were on the ropes and make [TS]

01:04:51   this really onerous deal with Apple from [TS]

01:04:54   their perspective but it ended up paying [TS]

01:04:58   out for them big time and I I can't help [TS]

01:05:01   but wonder who's going to be the [TS]

01:05:03   singular of the big American TV channels [TS]

01:05:08   you know the Fox ABC CBS and NBC you [TS]

01:05:12   know who's gonna be the first one of [TS]

01:05:13   them to to to say uncle and and make a [TS]

01:05:16   deal it will that be better that way [TS]

01:05:19   will it be worse will they will they end [TS]

01:05:21   up becoming you know more popular and [TS]

01:05:23   rolling in cash or they just gonna be [TS]

01:05:26   you know hastening their own demise when [TS]

01:05:28   the difference here is like you only [TS]

01:05:30   need one cell carrier [TS]

01:05:31   yeah exactly like once you've got the [TS]

01:05:32   cell carrier now you it now you have an [TS]

01:05:34   iphone as a product but until you get [TS]

01:05:36   them all its kind of the music labels of [TS]

01:05:38   itunes the itunes music store had rolled [TS]

01:05:39   out with some of the labels but not [TS]

01:05:40   other ones and stuff but honestly I we [TS]

01:05:44   have not seen Apple score a lot of great [TS]

01:05:47   content deals in recent years I i really [TS]

01:05:50   do question whether you know I I don't [TS]

01:05:53   obviously you know anything we hear what [TS]

01:05:55   this deal is always liked rumor and [TS]

01:05:56   speculation and everything because [TS]

01:05:57   they're not going to talk about how they [TS]

01:05:59   went or anything but it just seems like [TS]

01:06:01   what Apple's negotiating position might [TS]

01:06:03   just be wrong or or you know possibly [TS]

01:06:07   too arrogant or asking too much or [TS]

01:06:09   whatever whatever the conditions are but [TS]

01:06:11   it depends if you think its time is on [TS]

01:06:13   their side if you think time is on our [TS]

01:06:14   side like the longer we wait the [TS]

01:06:16   stronger the next time we come to the [TS]

01:06:17   table we will be even stronger because [TS]

01:06:18   you will have been weakened by your your [TS]

01:06:20   internet native competitors like and I [TS]

01:06:23   think that's been true every time that [TS]

01:06:24   Apple has gone back table they have been [TS]

01:06:26   in a stronger position because the [TS]

01:06:27   networks have been in a weaker position [TS]

01:06:28   not because of anything Apple did but [TS]

01:06:29   because of what the competitors to the [TS]

01:06:31   networks have done so i think i mean you [TS]

01:06:34   may argue if they don't make a deal then [TS]

01:06:36   someone else will come and and sweet [TS]

01:06:38   this way but they [TS]

01:06:39   they are developing the appletv it is [TS]

01:06:40   improving unlike you know some other [TS]

01:06:43   products they might have might have [TS]

01:06:44   where you know the Apple he wasn't a [TS]

01:06:46   drought and now it's sort of on the [TS]

01:06:48   track again it's just a question of [TS]

01:06:49   whether someone else is going to get [TS]

01:06:51   their first in it but nobody likes far [TS]

01:06:53   as I'm or nobody has deals with every [TS]

01:06:55   call these networks because because of [TS]

01:06:56   the the itunes thing everyone is scared [TS]

01:06:58   to be like as an industry we can't all [TS]

01:07:00   signed a deal with one company because [TS]

01:07:02   that takes way too much power so let's [TS]

01:07:04   all just bargain individually with each [TS]

01:07:06   things like hulu is everything was [TS]

01:07:07   beyond who's that NBC or comcast come [TS]

01:07:10   you know table town whatever it's it's [TS]

01:07:13   balkanize because everyone's afraid to [TS]

01:07:14   give one technology company too much [TS]

01:07:16   power but I i don't know i'm i'm kind of [TS]

01:07:20   in favor of not doing a deal that is [TS]

01:07:24   unfair business they do that deal like [TS]

01:07:25   financially speaking to have to take a [TS]

01:07:27   loss on every subscription or they would [TS]

01:07:29   have to make it too expensive and will [TS]

01:07:31   be unappealing like they have to [TS]

01:07:32   undercut cables what they have to do [TS]

01:07:33   they have to be able to offer a thing [TS]

01:07:34   that's like this is like cable but [TS]

01:07:36   either cheaper and way better or way [TS]

01:07:39   better and around the same price they [TS]

01:07:41   can't say this is like cable but [TS]

01:07:43   twenty-five percent more but hey there's [TS]

01:07:44   a bunch of good features because no [TS]

01:07:45   one's going to go for that [TS]

01:07:46   alright so apple today has a Down store [TS]

01:07:52   let's slip i'm not entirely clear what [TS]

01:07:54   happened here but announced a deal was [TS]

01:07:57   announced today because i saw a tweet [TS]

01:07:58   fly by somebody taking like a picture of [TS]

01:08:00   a slide at some conference or something [TS]

01:08:02   like that and so I wasn't sure if this [TS]

01:08:03   likely or if it was formally announced [TS]

01:08:05   anyway Apple I guess announced that they [TS]

01:08:09   are doing a bug bounty program and so if [TS]

01:08:11   you're not familiar with what that is [TS]

01:08:14   basically that means if you find a bug [TS]

01:08:16   in some of apple's code and I and the [TS]

01:08:20   specifics no change your company but [TS]

01:08:21   generally speaking the way it works is [TS]

01:08:23   if you can exercise it and show Apple [TS]

01:08:25   rather than you letting it out into the [TS]

01:08:27   wild [TS]

01:08:28   if you come to a pond say hey I found a [TS]

01:08:29   bug here's how you exercise it and you [TS]

01:08:32   do the right thing in quotes then they [TS]

01:08:35   will pay you in some cases a tremendous [TS]

01:08:37   amount of money for having done the [TS]

01:08:40   right thing and brought that bug to them [TS]

01:08:42   and and not just used it for nefarious [TS]

01:08:45   purposes and what it was also [TS]

01:08:47   interesting apparently if you choose to [TS]

01:08:49   donate the money that they give you [TS]

01:08:51   which in some cases is up to [TS]

01:08:52   hundred thousand dollars they will match [TS]

01:08:55   that donation 141 so that two hundred [TS]

01:08:57   thousand dollars hypothetically becomes [TS]

01:08:59   four hundred thousand dollars [TS]

01:09:01   I i think this is a great thing the the [TS]

01:09:03   prices the relative prices i thought [TS]

01:09:06   were a little bit weird like $20,000 was [TS]

01:09:08   for like the bootloader something like [TS]

01:09:09   that if you're there are something [TS]

01:09:11   pretty low level which made sense but [TS]

01:09:13   but like the secure Enclave was was half [TS]

01:09:17   that or maybe even a quarter that which [TS]

01:09:18   struck me as very weird i would assume [TS]

01:09:20   that the scare enclave if you found a [TS]

01:09:21   bug in that would be worth easily as [TS]

01:09:23   much as the as the the most the the [TS]

01:09:28   highest reward is easily worth 200 you [TS]

01:09:30   have to price them not just how valuable [TS]

01:09:32   it is to find the vulnerability but how [TS]

01:09:34   how difficult it translates to how many [TS]

01:09:37   vulnerabilities you think people will [TS]

01:09:38   find so it's kind of depressing like [TS]

01:09:41   what is it sandboxing vulnerabilities [TS]

01:09:42   only 25k sandbox tomorrow glories are [TS]

01:09:45   serious but I think Apple think that's [TS]

01:09:46   probably a lot of them and they're [TS]

01:09:47   probably not as hard to find as boot [TS]

01:09:49   from vulnerability so it's a balancing [TS]

01:09:52   act of like how do you price these [TS]

01:09:53   things you can't just price them and how [TS]

01:09:55   important they are [TS]

01:09:56   if you're kind of afraid that you have [TS]

01:09:57   like tons of sandboxing books because [TS]

01:10:00   you will you know its 200-day each and [TS]

01:10:02   you get 300 of them [TS]

01:10:03   that's our stand-up you even apple [TS]

01:10:05   doesn't like to just give away money but [TS]

01:10:06   the charity thing is a total Apple move [TS]

01:10:08   to kind of guilt you into not keeping [TS]

01:10:09   the money yourself by by spending even [TS]

01:10:12   more of their own money is this has been [TS]

01:10:14   I think we had something way way down [TS]

01:10:16   the showings someone can find and delete [TS]

01:10:17   later about you know the problem with [TS]

01:10:19   apple is that they don't have bug bounty [TS]

01:10:21   programs every other companies bug [TS]

01:10:22   bounty programs and so people find bugs [TS]

01:10:25   and apple stuff and it's more valuable [TS]

01:10:26   to the people find the bugs to like sell [TS]

01:10:29   it to jailbreak people or use it for [TS]

01:10:30   malware that is to go to apple because [TS]

01:10:32   from Apple you get nothing [TS]

01:10:33   you don't even get like thank you like [TS]

01:10:35   you just turn into a black hole they [TS]

01:10:36   don't fix it for a year and then you [TS]

01:10:37   fret about whether you feel really good [TS]

01:10:40   the White had people like I sent you [TS]

01:10:42   this out this bug apple for free it's [TS]

01:10:44   super serious i have a suspicion that [TS]

01:10:46   I'm not the only person in the world who [TS]

01:10:47   knows it I haven't told anybody but if I [TS]

01:10:49   know it probably means the bad guys know [TS]

01:10:51   it too and it's been six months since i [TS]

01:10:53   reported to you and I've heard nothing [TS]

01:10:55   if I don't hear from you soon I'm gonna [TS]

01:10:57   tell the world hey guys you all have a [TS]

01:10:59   phone it's normal to this exploit and [TS]

01:11:00   chances are good the bad guys already [TS]

01:11:01   know about it [TS]

01:11:02   and then I look at the cranky about that [TS]

01:11:04   Ryu disclosing and then the people like [TS]

01:11:05   well why don't you fix the damn bug and [TS]

01:11:07   people have vulnerable phones and anyway [TS]

01:11:09   the bug bounty program adjust the [TS]

01:11:12   incentives to to make things nicer they [TS]

01:11:15   have an incentive to give it to apple [TS]

01:11:17   apple has an incentive to do something [TS]

01:11:18   about it i suppose and they you know [TS]

01:11:22   it's it's more likely it makes it more [TS]

01:11:24   valuable than even the bad guys will say [TS]

01:11:25   I found this exploit how can i make the [TS]

01:11:27   most money from it's like you know what [TS]

01:11:28   I can make 200k right now guaranteed if [TS]

01:11:32   I do this and I just give it to apple so [TS]

01:11:34   i hope this works and by the way this [TS]

01:11:35   was announced at the black hat [TS]

01:11:37   conference which is big you know as the [TS]

01:11:40   name implies a hacker conference or [TS]

01:11:42   security vulnerabilities and stuff as [TS]

01:11:44   far as I'm aware apple has not had a [TS]

01:11:46   pee-pee made any formal presence or [TS]

01:11:48   particularly prominent former presidents [TS]

01:11:50   like their their relationship with the [TS]

01:11:52   community the security community has [TS]

01:11:53   been sort of standoffish you know as [TS]

01:11:55   evidence by not having a bug bounty [TS]

01:11:57   program and people being cranky about [TS]

01:11:58   sending example and not hearing anything [TS]

01:12:00   and this is just another day it's about [TS]

01:12:02   it it's about as friendly as they've [TS]

01:12:03   been to the developer community [TS]

01:12:04   well it's a little bit worse because [TS]

01:12:06   when you find a security vulnerability [TS]

01:12:07   apples kinda angry about it like they're [TS]

01:12:09   they're not particularly grateful and [TS]

01:12:11   security researchers like have done that [TS]

01:12:13   thing where they said i sent this to [TS]

01:12:14   apple ID responsible to the disclosure [TS]

01:12:16   but you haven't done anything so i'm [TS]

01:12:17   going to announce it to the world and [TS]

01:12:18   apples like don't announce it to the [TS]

01:12:19   world we hate you now it's like but i [TS]

01:12:21   found this bug and anyway it's a front [TS]

01:12:23   relationship but this is another tiny [TS]

01:12:26   step along the line of Tim Cook's more [TS]

01:12:28   open apple the Apple sins wasn't there [TS]

01:12:31   their head of security engineering to [TS]

01:12:33   blackhat to speak there to represent [TS]

01:12:36   apple and to say here we have this thing [TS]

01:12:38   that everyone else in the world has had [TS]

01:12:39   forever you know they're playing [TS]

01:12:41   catch-up but this is Apple being more [TS]

01:12:43   open and doing more of the things that [TS]

01:12:44   everyone said they should always do so [TS]

01:12:46   thumbs up [TS]

01:12:47   yeah this is this is only good things it [TS]

01:12:50   is kind of embarrassing that this wasn't [TS]

01:12:52   already in place given the rest of the [TS]

01:12:54   market however this is great progress [TS]

01:12:56   and better doing it [TS]

01:12:57   yep I I completely echo what you guys [TS]

01:13:00   said I'm i can't believe it's taken this [TS]

01:13:03   long but at least I got there [TS]

01:13:04   that's what matters one more thing on [TS]

01:13:05   this has some of the chatroom pointed [TS]

01:13:07   out and storming out like it's baby [TS]

01:13:09   steps [TS]

01:13:10   this is not a programmer anybody finds [TS]

01:13:12   about reported to us it's an invite only [TS]

01:13:15   Graham where you find a bug if you are [TS]

01:13:18   among this class of people that apple [TS]

01:13:19   says you are we find you are trustworthy [TS]

01:13:21   and you have the skills so please send [TS]

01:13:24   us a bug but there's also things i think [TS]

01:13:26   this is from Gruber site said sources [TS]

01:13:29   that Apple mentioned if someone outside [TS]

01:13:31   the program discovers an exponent of one [TS]

01:13:32   of these classes they could be added to [TS]

01:13:34   the program so it doesn't really close [TS]

01:13:36   and I don't understand that make sense [TS]

01:13:37   like it's closed it's not it's like [TS]

01:13:38   what's close but if you find a [TS]

01:13:40   vulnerability will add you to the group [TS]

01:13:42   that's close so i guess if you can [TS]

01:13:44   demonstrate that you're a good guy [TS]

01:13:47   by giving them an important bugs will [TS]

01:13:50   put you into the program but then do you [TS]

01:13:51   not get paid for the bug to put u amp [TS]

01:13:53   apple apple the Apple and I guess I can [TS]

01:13:57   help you could just make it up and [TS]

01:13:58   everybody but they don't but it's kinda [TS]

01:14:01   open so anyway maybe next year we'll be [TS]

01:14:04   announcing that black hat the bug bounty [TS]

01:14:06   program is open to everybody just like [TS]

01:14:08   everyone else's bug bounty program but [TS]

01:14:10   they would keep 30-percent yeah right [TS]

01:14:13   what how we respond to this week by [TS]

01:14:16   linode go to linda.com / ATP for a [TS]

01:14:20   ten-dollar credit using promo code [TS]

01:14:22   accidental podcast 10 linode is a [TS]

01:14:25   webhost they have these linux VPS is and [TS]

01:14:28   i use them myself and i have used them [TS]

01:14:30   for a long time now with way before they [TS]

01:14:33   were sponsored and they've been sponsor [TS]

01:14:35   for like a few months I've used them for [TS]

01:14:36   years and icons they say they are my [TS]

01:14:39   favorite web host have ever used that's [TS]

01:14:41   why i keep using them for everything all [TS]

01:14:42   over catches hosted their like my site [TS]

01:14:44   is hosted their you know maybe somebody [TS]

01:14:47   will be hosted there as well if ever get [TS]

01:14:48   around to it it's it's a great service [TS]

01:14:50   plans are just ten dollars a month for [TS]

01:14:53   your own private VPS you have root [TS]

01:14:57   access [TS]

01:14:57   you have full control you have so many [TS]

01:15:00   great options they have hourly billing [TS]

01:15:02   if you want and there's a monthly caps [TS]

01:15:05   you never liked paid more than what the [TS]

01:15:06   monthly rate would be they have amazing [TS]

01:15:09   add-on services they have backups load [TS]

01:15:11   balancers that they called node [TS]

01:15:12   balancers they have these long view [TS]

01:15:14   stats and you can get a server running [TS]

01:15:17   at load in under a minute it is so easy [TS]

01:15:19   and it's they have the best control [TS]

01:15:21   panel their use of anyone posting [TS]

01:15:22   believe me i use a lot of weapons [TS]

01:15:24   control panels and [TS]

01:15:25   most of them i would not say anything [TS]

01:15:27   nice about it all linode is actually a [TS]

01:15:29   pleasure to use it really is quite good [TS]

01:15:31   you can do so many things in these [TS]

01:15:33   things course you can run websites you [TS]

01:15:35   can run services you can also do things [TS]

01:15:37   like gonna get server if you if you're a [TS]

01:15:38   developer you want to run your own [TS]

01:15:39   source control servers have your control [TS]

01:15:41   over that you could do that to you can [TS]

01:15:43   run VMS you can run containers there's [TS]

01:15:45   so much you can do it linode it's having [TS]

01:15:47   your own server and it's great [TS]

01:15:48   the support is great if you that before [TS]

01:15:50   I really really enjoyed and they're not [TS]

01:15:53   paying me to say that they can't be me [TS]

01:15:54   to say that I'm saying anyway because [TS]

01:15:55   that's how much I enjoy it i'm so happy [TS]

01:15:57   to finally sponsor they now have in [TS]

01:16:00   credit their prices always been good but [TS]

01:16:02   it gets better like every every [TS]

01:16:04   Lightyear so they do hardware updates [TS]

01:16:06   and stuff and they just make their plans [TS]

01:16:07   better at for the same prices it's so [TS]

01:16:09   great so they now offer for ten dollars [TS]

01:16:12   a month a VPS with two gigs of ram you [TS]

01:16:15   can do a lot actually have six of those [TS]

01:16:17   doing on my feet crawling because for 10 [TS]

01:16:19   bucks a month wait why not that i don't [TS]

01:16:22   have sex love it it's so great so great [TS]

01:16:25   go to linda.com that's al ino de cama [TS]

01:16:28   clinics you know [TS]

01:16:29   lynda.com / ATP and use promo code [TS]

01:16:32   accidental podcast ten for ten dollar [TS]

01:16:34   credit thanks a lot to learn for [TS]

01:16:36   sponsoring our show in a final note for [TS]

01:16:41   today's episode [TS]

01:16:43   speaking of things that are taking a [TS]

01:16:45   long time diversity dapple progress [TS]

01:16:48   it seems is being made i was looking at [TS]

01:16:51   these numbers yet when they were [TS]

01:16:53   released a day or two ago and it didn't [TS]

01:16:55   seem like things were too terribly Rosie [TS]

01:17:00   like a year-on-year and trying to find [TS]

01:17:02   which specifically number was but i [TS]

01:17:05   can't at the moment but supposed to say [TS]

01:17:06   apples released their annual semiannual [TS]

01:17:09   diversity page and diversity numbers and [TS]

01:17:12   with one of the more impressive things [TS]

01:17:15   that I think we definitely need to [TS]

01:17:16   applaud is that they had claimed to have [TS]

01:17:18   one hundred percent pay equity across [TS]

01:17:21   all of apple's so that any any job that [TS]

01:17:24   a woman would do that man would do those [TS]

01:17:28   two people should make the exact same [TS]

01:17:30   amount of money for doing that exactly [TS]

01:17:31   job and of course that's everything is [TS]

01:17:34   open to interpretation so it's hard to [TS]

01:17:36   say whether or not that's really real [TS]

01:17:38   but that [TS]

01:17:38   but Apple is claiming an end is [TS]

01:17:41   asserting that that's the case so i mean [TS]

01:17:45   that's that's stupendous [TS]

01:17:46   oh they're here is the number that i [TS]

01:17:48   didn't like was data from last three [TS]

01:17:50   years most way down the page 2015 [TS]

01:17:53   fifty-four percent of apples white 2016 [TS]

01:17:55   fifty-six percent of apples white which [TS]

01:17:58   is not getting more diverse that's [TS]

01:18:01   getting less diverse so that's not good [TS]

01:18:04   but there I I'm nitpicking perhaps on [TS]

01:18:08   one particular data point but you know [TS]

01:18:11   that's one percent less male-dominated [TS]

01:18:14   we went from sixty-nine percent to sixty [TS]

01:18:16   percent which is an improvement and one [TS]

01:18:18   thing that they've made very clear on [TS]

01:18:21   this site is that they're they're hiring [TS]

01:18:24   practices are changing so it says are [TS]

01:18:26   hiring trend over the past three years [TS]

01:18:28   we are steadily attracting more and more [TS]

01:18:30   under-represented talents global female [TS]

01:18:32   new hires in 2014's 31-percent 2016 is [TS]

01:18:36   thirty-seven percent and the u.s. what [TS]

01:18:39   is it you urm is under represented [TS]

01:18:42   something or other underrepresented [TS]

01:18:44   minorities [TS]

01:18:45   Thank You us urls new hires got um just [TS]

01:18:49   sounds so dismissive don't like that at [TS]

01:18:51   all but anyway uh 21% in 2014 24-percent [TS]

01:18:55   2015 twenty-seven percent in 2016 so [TS]

01:18:57   definite improvement in in new hires [TS]

01:19:00   which witch is which should be [TS]

01:19:01   celebrated so a little bit of good a [TS]

01:19:03   little bit of bad but the fact that they [TS]

01:19:05   they seem to be paying this much [TS]

01:19:07   attention to it i think is a hundred [TS]

01:19:09   percent good is a borderline amazon [TS]

01:19:12   charts down here though like everything [TS]

01:19:13   i have three three data points now so [TS]

01:19:16   like they had to and you can make a line [TS]

01:19:18   at it too but it's more impressive when [TS]

01:19:19   you have three and of course the [TS]

01:19:21   highlight here the lines with the slopes [TS]

01:19:22   that are going up into the right and you [TS]

01:19:24   know they are doing better with new [TS]

01:19:25   hires of underrepresented minorities are [TS]

01:19:27   doing better with with female hires [TS]

01:19:29   right so they show these things but [TS]

01:19:31   there's nothing along the y-axis there [TS]

01:19:33   is no I access they just show they [TS]

01:19:35   decide 21% is like a centimeter from the [TS]

01:19:37   bottom and twenty-seven percent like [TS]

01:19:38   three times higher 27 is nothing anyone [TS]

01:19:41   so it's not zero based no I mean yeah [TS]

01:19:45   anyway positive trends progress is slow [TS]

01:19:49   they're highlighting where they're doing [TS]

01:19:50   the best obviously and [TS]

01:19:52   new hires if you're going to the best [TS]

01:19:53   somewhere like that's you know it's you [TS]

01:19:55   know forward-looking try to try to fix [TS]

01:19:58   this going forward as much as possible [TS]

01:19:59   and the other numbers mean I don't know [TS]

01:20:02   any way that one of the most important [TS]

01:20:04   things is that Apple has a webpage at [TS]

01:20:06   apple.com / diversity and that they're [TS]

01:20:08   open and transparent with these things [TS]

01:20:10   but as always liked the attention [TS]

01:20:13   between oh good job at ball stop on the [TS]

01:20:16   back you really care about this let's [TS]

01:20:17   give you cookies for being caring and [TS]

01:20:19   having a webpage on the other hand it's [TS]

01:20:21   like but on the other hand these numbers [TS]

01:20:23   are awesome and so apples job is kind of [TS]

01:20:27   its kind of weird making this webpage [TS]

01:20:28   your job making web pages show that [TS]

01:20:30   Apple cares [TS]

01:20:31   the website is there right good show the [TS]

01:20:34   progress apples making but also be [TS]

01:20:36   honest and upfront as they have been in [TS]

01:20:38   the past about where your problems are [TS]

01:20:39   and I think that's maybe where this [TS]

01:20:41   falls down a little because their [TS]

01:20:42   original diversity of things like we [TS]

01:20:44   take a look at the diversity we are not [TS]

01:20:45   doing a good enough job like it was [TS]

01:20:47   totally unflinching saying like oh [TS]

01:20:49   there's good and bad know the first run [TS]

01:20:51   of this a four-year was like we are not [TS]

01:20:53   happy with this we are not doing a good [TS]

01:20:55   job [TS]

01:20:56   we are not meeting our own standards for [TS]

01:20:58   how this should be and the same pages [TS]

01:21:00   this page here is more about like hey [TS]

01:21:02   we're doing well and everything i'm sure [TS]

01:21:04   internally they still have their eyes on [TS]

01:21:05   the prize and like all right there's [TS]

01:21:07   still progress to be made but there is a [TS]

01:21:10   danger of falling into the trap where [TS]

01:21:12   every time you come out these numbers [TS]

01:21:14   that we just parrot back the the cherry [TS]

01:21:17   stats that are getting better and don't [TS]

01:21:19   realize like the overall picture still [TS]

01:21:21   pretty grim [TS]

01:21:22   so I don't like I don't want to slam [TS]

01:21:24   them for not making progress faster [TS]

01:21:26   because again like it takes a long time [TS]

01:21:29   to turn ship this big it's not like [TS]

01:21:31   you're going to fire all your employees [TS]

01:21:32   and start over again from scratch and [TS]

01:21:34   new hiring is the place where you can [TS]

01:21:35   fix things and they're doing better but [TS]

01:21:37   on the other hand there's a long road [TS]

01:21:39   ahead so i hope i hope this page still [TS]

01:21:41   here 15 years from now and i hope if you [TS]

01:21:43   need a 15-year graph with an actual [TS]

01:21:45   labeled y-axis it will still show [TS]

01:21:47   equally encouraging a zero-based y axis [TS]

01:21:50   which are equally encouraging trends [TS]

01:21:53   yeah it's it's tough because I I want to [TS]

01:21:56   celebrate this so bad so much but [TS]

01:21:58   there's there's a lot of room for [TS]

01:22:01   improvement [TS]

01:22:02   I mean 2016 Global Gender [TS]

01:22:04   in what they described his tech is [TS]

01:22:06   seventy-seven percent and fifty-six [TS]

01:22:08   percent of it is white like that's it's [TS]

01:22:11   a lot of room for improvement there but [TS]

01:22:13   I mean if you look at to be fair if you [TS]

01:22:15   look at my company there for android [TS]

01:22:17   developers for iOS developers and every [TS]

01:22:21   single one of us as a white male so I [TS]

01:22:23   mean I shouldn't really be throwing [TS]

01:22:24   stones on this myself but I i hope we [TS]

01:22:27   get better I'm time I would love to see [TS]

01:22:29   us get better and and hopefully is as we [TS]

01:22:32   open other offices we will get better [TS]

01:22:34   but it's alright i guess it's hard and [TS]

01:22:38   it shouldn't be but it is [TS]

01:22:40   thanks 143 sponsors this week hover [TS]

01:22:43   Harry's and linode and we will see you [TS]

01:22:45   next week [TS]

01:22:47   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:22:52   mean to be in as it was accidental death [TS]

01:22:56   was accidental [TS]

01:22:59   John didn't [TS]

01:23:01   research Marco in kc would [TS]

01:23:04   because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

01:23:09   and you can find the show know today p [TS]

01:23:13   dot and if twitter follow them [TS]

01:23:20   s/he yl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:23:26   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment are c.c recuse [TS]

01:23:46   alright so Marco you and I went through [TS]

01:23:51   a deeply painful episode last week when [TS]

01:23:55   we had to hear about tivo for entirely [TS]

01:23:57   too long and what i remind me again why [TS]

01:23:59   that was so painful [TS]

01:24:00   yes I just don't care it's really don't [TS]

01:24:02   care as pain it's painful to hear about [TS]

01:24:04   things you don't care about it's painful [TS]

01:24:06   no I'm just being silly it's not painful [TS]

01:24:08   i was I actually I thought it was gonna [TS]

01:24:10   be worse than it was i just own dad and [TS]

01:24:12   I I just pretended like I wasn't [TS]

01:24:14   hypercritical and I guess I just forgot [TS]

01:24:17   that i could talk for most of the time [TS]

01:24:19   and just pretend like this never [TS]

01:24:20   critical and and for that it was great [TS]

01:24:22   because it was basically a brief [TS]

01:24:24   interlude hypercritical that'sthat's [TS]

01:24:26   there right now I'm just giving you a [TS]

01:24:28   hard time John it was wasn't going to be [TS]

01:24:30   very feeling it [TS]

01:24:31   interlude of building analyzed because i [TS]

01:24:33   don't think you would ever talk about [TS]

01:24:34   the mp3 file format and build analyze [TS]

01:24:36   this is no i didn't know much about it [TS]

01:24:37   back then but even if you did like this [TS]

01:24:39   is very nitty gritty feeling [TS]

01:24:41   yes to tell us what it is that we need [TS]

01:24:43   to know and don't know about the mp3 [TS]

01:24:44   file format because I I genuinely am [TS]

01:24:46   very interested [TS]

01:24:47   this is basically kind of like this [TS]

01:24:49   developer rathole i fell into last [TS]

01:24:51   weekend I had I had some work time and [TS]

01:24:53   rather than then do what I'm supposed to [TS]

01:24:55   be doing this summer which is updating [TS]

01:24:56   overcast to iOS 10 making a whole new [TS]

01:24:59   watch app and making it today widget and [TS]

01:25:00   also the garbage in today was [TS]

01:25:02   procrastinating by working on forecasts [TS]

01:25:04   my mp3 encoder and I i decided to let me [TS]

01:25:07   just do whatever work is required to [TS]

01:25:10   make it work with VR output so to back [TS]

01:25:13   up a little bit the way that it just a [TS]

01:25:15   high-level version of the mp3 file [TS]

01:25:18   format so the way mp3's work at a very [TS]

01:25:21   high level and please if you if you're a [TS]

01:25:23   nerd about this stuff please forgive me [TS]

01:25:25   about these details of getting anything [TS]

01:25:26   wrong i'm trying to get very high level [TS]

01:25:27   overview here the way lossy compression [TS]

01:25:29   works is basically try to not store [TS]

01:25:33   things that you probably won't notice if [TS]

01:25:36   they're not stored and then for the [TS]

01:25:39   things you do notice try to store them [TS]

01:25:41   with less precision in mp3 there's [TS]

01:25:44   they're one of the famous ways it does [TS]

01:25:45   this is by omitting sounds that you [TS]

01:25:48   probably won't hear and so obviously [TS]

01:25:50   things are outside the range of human [TS]

01:25:51   hearing that's the easy one [TS]

01:25:53   they also do things like there's a [TS]

01:25:55   principle called masking where if [TS]

01:25:57   there's a very quiet sound and a very [TS]

01:26:00   loud [TS]

01:26:00   sound at the same time the very last [TS]

01:26:02   time is going to be so overpowering the [TS]

01:26:04   very quiet and is going to be drowned [TS]

01:26:06   out so there's no reason to store the [TS]

01:26:08   information about the very quiet sound [TS]

01:26:10   because the very lightest and that's all [TS]

01:26:11   you'll hear one way they they achieve [TS]

01:26:13   the size savings just by omitting things [TS]

01:26:15   that are just kinda drowned out or that [TS]

01:26:17   you won't hear another way to do it is [TS]

01:26:20   by reducing the precision of the things [TS]

01:26:22   you do here and so there there are a few [TS]

01:26:24   different tricks they can do for this [TS]

01:26:25   because basically the the precision at [TS]

01:26:28   which we perceive what we hear is not [TS]

01:26:30   constant throughout the frequency range [TS]

01:26:32   very low frequencies very high [TS]

01:26:34   frequencies we tend not to have as much [TS]

01:26:37   precision about perceiving those things [TS]

01:26:39   and so they can store those less [TS]

01:26:42   precisely and therefore using less data [TS]

01:26:44   they can also do things like in a stereo [TS]

01:26:46   recording where you know you might have [TS]

01:26:48   very very similar sound coming out of [TS]

01:26:51   left my channel just slight differences [TS]

01:26:52   so there's there's a method called joint [TS]

01:26:55   stereo we're basically this is the left [TS]

01:26:57   channel and the right channel differs by [TS]

01:26:58   this much and just all the difference [TS]

01:27:00   for the right channel we are also very [TS]

01:27:02   bad at perceiving not only the details [TS]

01:27:05   about very high pitch and very low pitch [TS]

01:27:07   sounds but also where they're coming [TS]

01:27:08   from and you might realize this like if [TS]

01:27:10   if you if you can hear a very [TS]

01:27:12   high-pitched challenge in your house i [TS]

01:27:13   get like back in the old days like you [TS]

01:27:15   hear the very high-pitched whine of a [TS]

01:27:16   CRT TV and you like you can just walk [TS]

01:27:19   into as you can hear like I can hear [TS]

01:27:20   there's a TV on somewhere in the house [TS]

01:27:22   but you might be able to pick out where [TS]

01:27:24   exactly like what direction exactly was [TS]

01:27:26   coming from also similar reason why [TS]

01:27:29   subwoofers in home theater systems tend [TS]

01:27:31   to be one so before that you just put [TS]

01:27:33   somewhere and it kind of doesn't matter [TS]

01:27:35   because the very low frequencies again [TS]

01:27:37   you you're not nearly as good at [TS]

01:27:38   perceiving where they're coming from [TS]

01:27:41   so they can do things there too they can [TS]

01:27:42   save space there too with things like [TS]

01:27:43   all right well you know if we have to [TS]

01:27:45   store this separated stereo image here [TS]

01:27:48   maybe we can just store the average of [TS]

01:27:51   the very high very low stuff in the [TS]

01:27:52   middle and not have to worry about the [TS]

01:27:54   sides you know i have not did not have [TS]

01:27:55   the separation so the whole print the [TS]

01:27:57   whole principle the mp3 file format and [TS]

01:27:59   all loss are all lost the audio formats [TS]

01:28:01   is based on this idea of like figure out [TS]

01:28:04   what we couldn't either omit entirely [TS]

01:28:06   from storing and then figure out tricks [TS]

01:28:09   we can use to store it less precisely [TS]

01:28:12   obviously though [TS]

01:28:13   you lower the amount of space you're [TS]

01:28:15   going to spend as you lower the bitrate [TS]

01:28:17   how many bits per second you're going to [TS]

01:28:18   devote to storing this it may become you [TS]

01:28:22   start hearing artifact you start hearing [TS]

01:28:23   the quality loss you start hearing of [TS]

01:28:25   this is now this anymore folder that's [TS]

01:28:27   kinda store that's something weird or [TS]

01:28:29   that you know that symbol hit kind of [TS]

01:28:31   sounded weirdly telephonic like you know [TS]

01:28:34   you start hearing flaws i don't want to [TS]

01:28:36   get into too many of the details of what [TS]

01:28:38   the argument over whether you can hear [TS]

01:28:39   the difference or not generally most [TS]

01:28:41   tests show that about a hundred [TS]

01:28:44   ninety-two kilobits per second [TS]

01:28:45   you don't really hear the difference in [TS]

01:28:47   most things for most people that's [TS]

01:28:49   beside the point though so everyone your [TS]

01:28:51   encoding a podcast there's a few [TS]

01:28:53   different ways you can you can go about [TS]

01:28:54   like managing the bitrate how many bits [TS]

01:28:57   per second you are willing to spend on [TS]

01:29:00   the audio the most direct kind is [TS]

01:29:03   constant bit rate or CBR which basically [TS]

01:29:06   so mp3 files are divided into frames and [TS]

01:29:08   just it's just time slice every frame is [TS]

01:29:10   as a 1152 samples [TS]

01:29:13   whatever your sample rate is like at at [TS]

01:29:15   44 k that's like 26 milliseconds every [TS]

01:29:18   frame us you have a bit rate and you [TS]

01:29:20   very well in constant bitrate mode every [TS]

01:29:23   frame will get 96 kilobits or 64 [TS]

01:29:26   kilobits 128 kilobits whatever and it's [TS]

01:29:28   a very simple way to do things and that [TS]

01:29:30   mostly works and podcasts are almost [TS]

01:29:33   always encoded that way I started to [TS]

01:29:36   wonder why exactly you know because we [TS]

01:29:39   also have these other methods they're [TS]

01:29:42   based on variable bit rate or vbr the [TS]

01:29:45   encoder has some idea about the [TS]

01:29:47   complexity of each frame each one of [TS]

01:29:49   those little 26 millisecond each one of [TS]

01:29:51   those little time slices the encoder can [TS]

01:29:53   decide this part of encoding right now [TS]

01:29:56   this little time slice is a pretty [TS]

01:29:57   complex there's a lot going on here so [TS]

01:30:00   to encode this with a certain degree of [TS]

01:30:02   perceived quality i need more bits and [TS]

01:30:05   then maybe like three seconds later [TS]

01:30:07   there's a quieter passage or a simpler [TS]

01:30:10   passage and you can say you know this [TS]

01:30:12   part I don't need this many bits i can [TS]

01:30:14   include a lower bitrate you know you can [TS]

01:30:16   have the encoder kind of decide on a [TS]

01:30:18   target perceived quality level and just [TS]

01:30:20   use as many bits as you need to achieve [TS]

01:30:22   that quality level and have it just very [TS]

01:30:24   constantly throughout the file for pie [TS]

01:30:26   cast this is an obvious choice right it [TS]

01:30:29   makes sense that for podcast that should [TS]

01:30:31   work really well because podcasts have a [TS]

01:30:34   lot of silence [TS]

01:30:35   this is I kind of my current living on [TS]

01:30:36   this tape has have a lot of silence and [TS]

01:30:40   voice is pretty easy and occasionally [TS]

01:30:43   you throw in like a music clip or music [TS]

01:30:45   bed running under things or theme song [TS]

01:30:47   or a clip from TV or something like so [TS]

01:30:50   you occasionally have more complex stuff [TS]

01:30:53   that could use more complexity and like [TS]

01:30:55   in our show we started out being a a 64 [TS]

01:30:59   kilobit mono show for it for like the [TS]

01:31:01   first year too and centered okay it [TS]

01:31:04   didn't sound great centered ok [TS]

01:31:06   one of the things that's how the worst [TS]

01:31:08   was our themes on because 64k mono is [TS]

01:31:11   kind of terrible for music a while back [TS]

01:31:13   now maybe a year ago or something like [TS]

01:31:15   that [TS]

01:31:16   i switch to 96k stereo and it made the [TS]

01:31:20   theme song sound way better anytime you [TS]

01:31:22   insert a clip like from a Steve Jobs [TS]

01:31:24   hear anything made all those sound way [TS]

01:31:25   better and kind of musical clip or any [TS]

01:31:27   kind of inserts and away better and [TS]

01:31:29   voices sounded better too and even [TS]

01:31:30   though the entire rest of the of the [TS]

01:31:34   podcast is us talking and I don't do any [TS]

01:31:37   kind of stereo separation so just a mono [TS]

01:31:39   thing because of the way the joint [TS]

01:31:41   stereo encoding works we just get all 96 [TS]

01:31:44   kilobits to our mono channel for the [TS]

01:31:47   entire rest of the file because it can [TS]

01:31:49   say all right well the the channels are [TS]

01:31:51   encoded as like you know the main [TS]

01:31:52   channel equals this and the difference [TS]

01:31:54   in the other channel is 0 basically so [TS]

01:31:56   you get all the bits to yourself and [TS]

01:31:59   then only when you have a stereo thing [TS]

01:32:00   inserted do you then split up the bits [TS]

01:32:03   as necessary between the channels so it [TS]

01:32:05   is really a great way to do it but what [TS]

01:32:07   would be even better would be a vbr [TS]

01:32:09   encoding all the silence between all the [TS]

01:32:12   words i'm speaking those would get like [TS]

01:32:13   the minimum frame size which i think is [TS]

01:32:15   there is 32 kilobytes per second so it's [TS]

01:32:17   like the minimum frame size for all [TS]

01:32:19   those sounds because it doesn't matter [TS]

01:32:20   you want to the difference and then we [TS]

01:32:22   throw in music clip or something that [TS]

01:32:23   could go all the way up to like 192 to [TS]

01:32:26   really get the music to be perfect [TS]

01:32:27   quality if you did that way it wouldn't [TS]

01:32:30   take very much more space in fact it [TS]

01:32:32   probably takes up less space and in my [TS]

01:32:33   tests it actually would take up about me [TS]

01:32:36   twenty-five percent less space than my [TS]

01:32:38   constant 96k [TS]

01:32:39   to have similar voice qualities we have [TS]

01:32:42   now but then have the ability to put in [TS]

01:32:44   like that like our theme song at [TS]

01:32:47   effectively perfect quality so why don't [TS]

01:32:49   we do this so i spent the weekend adding [TS]

01:32:52   the capability forecast to say you know [TS]

01:32:53   what let me just give it the ability to [TS]

01:32:55   output vbr files because it wasn't that [TS]

01:32:57   much more work and I got to dive into [TS]

01:32:58   the format learn a bit more about it is [TS]

01:33:00   also for completeness there's something [TS]

01:33:02   called a br which is average bitrate and [TS]

01:33:05   the idea here is it is vbr but instead [TS]

01:33:09   of targeting a certain quality level it [TS]

01:33:12   just says try to keep the bitrate at [TS]

01:33:14   exactly this average over time so [TS]

01:33:17   basically if you have like a couple of [TS]

01:33:20   very brief frames where you can like you [TS]

01:33:23   know for this second of audio anymore [TS]

01:33:26   quality but for the other 30 seconds [TS]

01:33:28   around it you don't you know you can [TS]

01:33:30   have a little temporary jumps there but [TS]

01:33:32   ABR would not work for the case i'm [TS]

01:33:34   talking about which is if I say you know [TS]

01:33:37   average bitrate of our whole file needs [TS]

01:33:39   to be this [TS]

01:33:40   well the theme song is going to just [TS]

01:33:41   blow that because the theme song needs [TS]

01:33:43   like two minutes of really high-quality [TS]

01:33:46   so the average during that time is gonna [TS]

01:33:47   be way higher and so it you basically [TS]

01:33:50   doesn't work right like you could have a [TS]

01:33:52   few seconds of higher quality but not [TS]

01:33:53   minutes of higher quality so that [TS]

01:33:55   wouldn't work for for our needs so I i [TS]

01:33:59   really started trying to figure out like [TS]

01:34:00   how can i get a true vbr encoding in the [TS]

01:34:05   world of podcast because again PBR has [TS]

01:34:06   been around for almost 20 years this is [TS]

01:34:08   not a new thing and yet almost no [TS]

01:34:10   podcast vbr why off the top of your head [TS]

01:34:14   you guys think of why this might be [TS]

01:34:15   because podcast podcast sures don't [TS]

01:34:20   support it for some reason or another [TS]

01:34:21   they didn't at some point or what about [TS]

01:34:24   like the hardware actually the old [TS]

01:34:26   hardware the old ipod hardware good [TS]

01:34:28   question so honestly I think that I'm [TS]

01:34:30   ipod came out and doesn't want I think [TS]

01:34:32   all the hardware support it like in the [TS]

01:34:34   very early days some hardware have [TS]

01:34:36   problems and maybe if you had like one [TS]

01:34:38   of the first like mp3 CD players or mp3 [TS]

01:34:40   flash players like that i mean really if [TS]

01:34:42   you had some of the very first mp3 [TS]

01:34:44   players or software or like car stereos [TS]

01:34:47   play mp3's Navy to be a problem there [TS]

01:34:50   but vbr compatibility has been solved so [TS]

01:34:53   long ago in all this stuff because [TS]

01:34:56   literally almost 20 years old was that [TS]

01:34:58   my music has always been vbr I've never [TS]

01:35:00   done CPR from the second i ever made an [TS]

01:35:03   mp3 i had the choice [TS]

01:35:04   vbr are constant bit rate and was like [TS]

01:35:07   why would i choose constant Phoebe are [TS]

01:35:08   always and as always played and [TS]

01:35:09   obviously i started listening to it on [TS]

01:35:11   actually did we had a yamaha mp3 player [TS]

01:35:15   for like running or whatever like the [TS]

01:35:17   size of a shuffle and that played vb are [TS]

01:35:19   so no I don't think it's hardware either [TS]

01:35:21   yet so what I what I found out the main [TS]

01:35:25   problem with vbr is streaming if you [TS]

01:35:29   want your streaming when you when you [TS]

01:35:30   when when a player plays back upstream [TS]

01:35:32   file if you need to jump ahead to a [TS]

01:35:34   timestamp and you haven't downloaded [TS]

01:35:37   that part of the file yet you don't have [TS]

01:35:39   that far the way this is usually done is [TS]

01:35:42   the player will download the first few [TS]

01:35:45   you know a hundred kilobytes maybe like [TS]

01:35:47   the basic little down the first part of [TS]

01:35:49   the file to get all the header [TS]

01:35:50   information and everything all the [TS]

01:35:51   metadata and then they will terminate [TS]

01:35:53   that connection and make a new [TS]

01:35:55   connection that jumps ahead using a [TS]

01:35:57   range request to begin playback like you [TS]

01:36:00   know 50 megabytes into the file so it [TS]

01:36:03   doesn't have to download all of you know [TS]

01:36:05   everything in the middle there to get [TS]

01:36:07   there so the problem is it needs to be [TS]

01:36:09   able to predict at what byte offset in [TS]

01:36:12   the file maps to the timestamp that it's [TS]

01:36:15   going to also used to how long the file [TS]

01:36:17   is you know duration is another is not [TS]

01:36:19   the challenge here and with with a [TS]

01:36:22   constant bit rate or ABR average bitrate [TS]

01:36:24   kind of kind of scheme you can do that [TS]

01:36:27   pretty effectively mp3 it once you have [TS]

01:36:30   like the like the byte stream i [TS]

01:36:32   mentioned in the past so once you have [TS]

01:36:33   the byte stream like you can jump ahead [TS]

01:36:35   to a certain point and then every mp3 [TS]

01:36:38   frame every one of those 16 millisecond [TS]

01:36:40   time slices begins with a certain bite [TS]

01:36:42   pattern that's easy to seek to and and [TS]

01:36:43   locate you can jump into an official mp3 [TS]

01:36:45   files from any point any bite and you [TS]

01:36:48   can just scan forward until you see 11 [TS]

01:36:50   ones basically and you know an MC or [TS]

01:36:52   whatever it is you can scan for until [TS]

01:36:54   you see that and then that's your frame [TS]

01:36:56   header you can start playing from there [TS]

01:36:57   but you still have to know where you are [TS]

01:36:59   so if you jump ahead to bite position [TS]

01:37:02   you know [TS]

01:37:03   fifty megabytes expecting that to be [TS]

01:37:05   timestamp one hour and 20 minutes [TS]

01:37:08   there's nothing in the file in the byte [TS]

01:37:10   stream that says I am timestamp one hour [TS]

01:37:13   and 20 minutes at that point so you have [TS]

01:37:15   to already know the timestamp that you [TS]

01:37:18   are at you have to keep track yourself [TS]

01:37:20   as the decoder as the player and so in a [TS]

01:37:22   file where you know the constant bitrate [TS]

01:37:24   where it's kept the same you can just do [TS]

01:37:26   the math you can see all right well you [TS]

01:37:28   know I know the music data began at x 0 [TS]

01:37:30   and you know the file is under megabytes [TS]

01:37:32   and you know the duration from the [TS]

01:37:34   header says it's an hour long so if you [TS]

01:37:36   jump to point fifty megabytes [TS]

01:37:38   that's right in the middle so that [TS]

01:37:38   should be 30 minutes done in constant [TS]

01:37:41   refile that's true you know probably [TS]

01:37:43   solve this problem [TS]

01:37:44   quicktime mm do you hate those container [TS]

01:37:48   formats in the NB NB mpeg-4 for a [TS]

01:37:51   container formats that spot far because [TS]

01:37:53   they're all complicated you have [TS]

01:37:54   multiple atoms and streams or whatever [TS]

01:37:56   but i'm pretty sure they sell this one [TS]

01:37:58   but anyway yeah quicktime has a number [TS]

01:38:00   of other problems actually pick anyways [TS]

01:38:02   well the fact that Apple is not [TS]

01:38:04   interested in any more being the most [TS]

01:38:05   primary whatever but that this this [TS]

01:38:07   exact problems like to be able to pick [TS]

01:38:08   different codecs to have them be [TS]

01:38:10   variable bitrate to be it but be able to [TS]

01:38:11   have time codes and other you know [TS]

01:38:13   multiple streams to tell you how I've [TS]

01:38:16   come to a point in the file where how [TS]

01:38:18   far am I in the file and what is the [TS]

01:38:19   subtitle I should be showing and what is [TS]

01:38:21   the yeah picked image that should be [TS]

01:38:23   displaying on top of the anyway yeah 11 [TS]

01:38:26   of the fun challenges about the about [TS]

01:38:28   the wonderful QuickTime file format and [TS]

01:38:30   it's undocumented chapter spec is that [TS]

01:38:32   in mp3 chapters all the chapter info is [TS]

01:38:35   right up front the file so you can [TS]

01:38:36   relive the first couple hundred [TS]

01:38:37   kilobytes and have all the information [TS]

01:38:39   you need to show the entire table of [TS]

01:38:40   content and then you can jump the point [TS]

01:38:41   you need quicktime predates internet [TS]

01:38:43   streaming quicktime predates internet [TS]

01:38:45   yeah but quicktime chapters doesn't and [TS]

01:38:47   they still did it this way so quick to [TS]

01:38:49   pay the full time format important [TS]

01:38:51   information like the chapter titles are [TS]

01:38:54   spread throughout the entire file like [TS]

01:38:57   the title occurs in the file when the [TS]

01:38:59   music does like at like in the audio at [TS]

01:39:01   that point the titles interleaved there [TS]

01:39:04   so in order to display the table of [TS]

01:39:06   contents you have to have the entire [TS]

01:39:08   file basically so that's that's a bad [TS]

01:39:10   design for this prick is going to use [TS]

01:39:12   anyway the main problem with the mp3 [TS]

01:39:14   format is you know with with seeking [TS]

01:39:17   and and duration estimates and ends and [TS]

01:39:19   streaming vbr files is that you need to [TS]

01:39:24   know like what white position in the [TS]

01:39:27   file maps to what time stamp and this [TS]

01:39:30   you know they figure this out early on [TS]

01:39:31   this is a problem from the start [TS]

01:39:33   people chatter staying with these two [TS]

01:39:34   have like maybe old software old [TS]

01:39:36   hardware that would display the wrong [TS]

01:39:38   duration on PBR files one of the ways [TS]

01:39:41   decoders would do this would be to just [TS]

01:39:43   read the first couple mp3 frames and [TS]

01:39:46   figure out like you know the average [TS]

01:39:48   bitrate of of those frames or even read [TS]

01:39:49   the very first one and then just look at [TS]

01:39:52   this look at the file size and say [TS]

01:39:53   alright well we're going to assume this [TS]

01:39:55   represents the average bitrate of the [TS]

01:39:56   file and extrapolate from the file size [TS]

01:39:58   how long this file is and that's dumb [TS]

01:40:00   and doesn't work so that's why that's [TS]

01:40:02   why those programs often display the [TS]

01:40:03   wrong durations there is also an ID [TS]

01:40:06   three tag value of the duration of the [TS]

01:40:08   file but not everything supports that [TS]

01:40:10   you know not every encoder embed that [TS]

01:40:12   and somebody might have edited that's [TS]

01:40:14   what might be wrong [TS]

01:40:15   early on they figured out a little [TS]

01:40:17   solutions problem and it's it's the do [TS]

01:40:20   you remember back when people argue mp3 [TS]

01:40:22   encoders determine the encoder that was [TS]

01:40:24   a zing or exiting it's x-ing know anyway [TS]

01:40:28   they figure that early on then the [TS]

01:40:30   current hack to do this is in these mp3 [TS]

01:40:33   frames which are like you know 300 bytes [TS]

01:40:36   long for this kind of file in these [TS]

01:40:40   frames the very very first audio frame [TS]

01:40:43   in the file is called an info frame in [TS]

01:40:45   for vbr files and they they basically [TS]

01:40:48   right all zeros of the audio data and [TS]

01:40:50   they have a bunch of free space and the [TS]

01:40:52   frame because they didn't use it all so [TS]

01:40:54   they they had the special format where [TS]

01:40:57   they embed really really tiny metadata [TS]

01:40:59   and one of the things they embed is a [TS]

01:41:02   100 bite seek table that literally just [TS]

01:41:06   Maps percentage points to the the [TS]

01:41:10   unsigned character values so that you [TS]

01:41:12   have 255 values their of like it Maps [TS]

01:41:15   the duration percentage to the bite [TS]

01:41:17   percentage of the file that's [TS]

01:41:20   fascinating yeah and then I'm sure [TS]

01:41:23   there'll be no rounding errors in that [TS]

01:41:24   with that long and files with thats also [TS]

01:41:28   incredibly precise right like for a song [TS]

01:41:30   if the song is more than a minute and a [TS]

01:41:32   half long you already don't have second [TS]

01:41:35   per second level precision you already [TS]

01:41:37   are like less than one second position [TS]

01:41:38   for a podcast that's like less than one [TS]

01:41:41   minute precision let's eat it so that is [TS]

01:41:45   terrible right i fed and that it turns [TS]

01:41:48   out that is for the most part what most [TS]

01:41:53   Apple playback interfaces you know most [TS]

01:41:56   of the API 80 players everything that is [TS]

01:41:57   what most these things will use and this [TS]

01:41:59   again this info frame with this jump [TS]

01:42:02   information has been around for a very [TS]

01:42:03   long time so that's what most however [TS]

01:42:06   you will use with CBR files to just be [TS]

01:42:08   able to tell you all right well this be [TS]

01:42:10   our song if you seek ahead to point X [TS]

01:42:12   and we don't have the whole file we know [TS]

01:42:14   we can jump to about this x position and [TS]

01:42:16   be approximately correct within a couple [TS]

01:42:18   of seconds for you know a three-minute [TS]

01:42:20   song doesn't really work for podcasts [TS]

01:42:21   right so the idea I had [TS]

01:42:24   I you know I'm making the encoder I make [TS]

01:42:27   the player [TS]

01:42:28   what if I just make i define a new ID [TS]

01:42:31   three tag that gives way more percent [TS]

01:42:34   you know I could do like you know second [TS]

01:42:35   level precision and just have it have it [TS]

01:42:37   be as long as it needs to be or [TS]

01:42:38   something like that you know whatever it [TS]

01:42:40   is like an icon with a scheme that is [TS]

01:42:41   the size wouldn't matter for a hundred [TS]

01:42:43   megabyte podcast file or whatever [TS]

01:42:45   because it could be like you know 15k [TS]

01:42:47   and have all the information we need so [TS]

01:42:49   I I figured I you know I was like I was [TS]

01:42:51   drafting this plan in my head like what [TS]

01:42:53   if I just do this and the main problem [TS]

01:42:56   with this is even if overcast supports [TS]

01:43:00   it [TS]

01:43:00   nobody else would support it because how [TS]

01:43:03   many people do you think are working on [TS]

01:43:05   the low-level mp3 decoding libraries at [TS]

01:43:08   Apple or Google this is ancient stuff [TS]

01:43:10   now it's like so many people tried to [TS]

01:43:13   modify and advance the jpeg format and [TS]

01:43:16   none of them ever take off because [TS]

01:43:18   nobody is still working on their jpg [TS]

01:43:21   decoders like they're there is no new [TS]

01:43:23   version of JPEG that's going to ever [TS]

01:43:24   matter because we have JP already and [TS]

01:43:26   thats everywhere and nobody wants to [TS]

01:43:28   talk to consider a solved problem mp3 [TS]

01:43:29   the same way like there are other audio [TS]

01:43:32   formats and advancement and everything [TS]

01:43:33   and most of them have really gone [TS]

01:43:35   effectively nowhere with the exception [TS]

01:43:37   of AC because Apple use it everywhere [TS]

01:43:39   but for the most part like most [TS]

01:43:41   improvements have gone very very very [TS]

01:43:43   few places p [TS]

01:43:44   it was basically like nothing implements [TS]

01:43:46   them and no one cares right [TS]

01:43:48   so if you fed a PBR file to one of these [TS]

01:43:51   non overcast players and they ignore [TS]

01:43:53   your ID three day because they have no [TS]

01:43:54   idea what it means i would what would [TS]

01:43:57   they do for duration and skipping around [TS]

01:44:01   like who they were just read that little [TS]

01:44:02   zing thing if it was present and that's [TS]

01:44:05   it like how I don't understand how they [TS]

01:44:06   can even use that thing that was like it [TS]

01:44:08   i jumped his offset does it just display [TS]

01:44:09   the exact number of seconds that should [TS]

01:44:11   be according to its math with some [TS]

01:44:13   rounding yes and then just be like [TS]

01:44:14   that's not the real offset but oh well [TS]

01:44:16   that's the best we can tell you if where [TS]

01:44:19   you know if you're streaming that [TS]

01:44:20   literally is what happens like if you if [TS]

01:44:22   you have the whole file the the file you [TS]

01:44:25   can ski you can just scan forward and [TS]

01:44:27   scanning forward is incredibly fast [TS]

01:44:29   because it you're dealing with very [TS]

01:44:32   small data ranges here and the like in [TS]

01:44:35   order to to find and read an mp3 header [TS]

01:44:38   is incredibly simple like bit shifting [TS]

01:44:40   it's very very simple stuff because this [TS]

01:44:42   is an old format designed for like [TS]

01:44:43   really slow computers so if you have the [TS]

01:44:46   whole file you can seek back and forth [TS]

01:44:48   just by reading all the frames and you [TS]

01:44:49   know and keeping track yourself and you [TS]

01:44:51   can have perfect accuracy there it's [TS]

01:44:53   only an issue with streaming and only an [TS]

01:44:55   issue if you are and streaming if you're [TS]

01:44:57   playing from the beginning it isn't a [TS]

01:44:59   problem but it is a problem if you're [TS]

01:45:00   trying to jump ahead to a timestamp [TS]

01:45:02   where you have not downloaded the the [TS]

01:45:04   intermediate part of the file between [TS]

01:45:05   the beginning and that timestamp that is [TS]

01:45:08   the only place is a problem the obvious [TS]

01:45:10   terrible problem solution that springs [TS]

01:45:11   to mind for me is all right fine then [TS]

01:45:13   overcast just uh makes a different [TS]

01:45:16   requests to the server and if it has a [TS]

01:45:18   vbr version with the special thing it [TS]

01:45:20   serves it and if it doesn't you know I [TS]

01:45:21   mean like my smarts and it's terrible i [TS]

01:45:25   know but it would totally work was like [TS]

01:45:26   everyone else will get the normal [TS]

01:45:27   constant bitrate one and then now you [TS]

01:45:29   have to make two versions of ATP one [TS]

01:45:31   special 141 overcast savvy version that [TS]

01:45:34   would be vr better quality and baba but [TS]

01:45:37   everyone else will get the other version [TS]

01:45:38   and that's terrible solution because you [TS]

01:45:40   haven't changed what anyone else does [TS]

01:45:41   but you have made your player slightly [TS]

01:45:42   better but now you have to cut [TS]

01:45:43   everything twice and if anybody else [TS]

01:45:45   wanted to do that which I assume you [TS]

01:45:47   want other people to do it 2day pissed [TS]

01:45:48   at you because now you have to cut [TS]

01:45:49   everything twice since dump [TS]

01:45:50   yeah and there's there's also another [TS]

01:45:52   problem that for example we have to [TS]

01:45:54   leave Squarespace because here's the [TS]

01:45:55   thing that podcast has been around for [TS]

01:45:57   so [TS]

01:45:58   long that there's all these like [TS]

01:45:59   wordpress plugins and CMS is like [TS]

01:46:01   Squarespace that have podcast support [TS]

01:46:03   but i don't think any of them have the [TS]

01:46:06   ability to different to say to have like [TS]

01:46:09   oh you know it my feet actually every [TS]

01:46:11   entry is now gonna have to enclosure tag [TS]

01:46:12   if you just do a stupid can you do a [TS]

01:46:15   convention over configuration dot [TS]

01:46:16   mp3.com marcos weird version [TS]

01:46:19   oh god that's even worse like the RSS [TS]

01:46:21   feed would just say that mp3 but [TS]

01:46:22   overcast would know actually make a [TS]

01:46:24   quick request for that mp3 that markers [TS]

01:46:26   we were in first if you can afford then [TS]

01:46:28   make a request with yes I'm telling you [TS]

01:46:30   this is a terrible like this is the the [TS]

01:46:32   obvious terrible solution that comes to [TS]

01:46:33   mind immediately that you should [TS]

01:46:35   probably ever do but like people have [TS]

01:46:38   done worse things like the other one is [TS]

01:46:39   the hombre some extent thing i'll get it [TS]

01:46:41   at e3 spec socializing something like [TS]

01:46:43   that so everything happens and you can [TS]

01:46:44   make it to facto standard i'm just not [TS]

01:46:46   sure you have the market share to pull [TS]

01:46:47   it off at this point [TS]

01:46:48   yeah and the other problem is like you [TS]

01:46:51   know if if I actually made just the [TS]

01:46:53   regular file vbr the one of the biggest [TS]

01:46:55   problems here is my time stamp share [TS]

01:46:58   links because when you open up a [TS]

01:47:01   timestamp share link in that overcast [TS]

01:47:03   generates for you share this podcast at [TS]

01:47:05   this point in time it's using the html5 [TS]

01:47:08   audio tag and that's just apples decoder [TS]

01:47:11   like that's just going to load up to use [TS]

01:47:12   a particular and I tested this and with [TS]

01:47:14   me BR files and you know it just it just [TS]

01:47:16   off like it doesn't it doesn't work [TS]

01:47:19   correctly it does not seek correctly [TS]

01:47:20   position the share link would have to [TS]

01:47:22   use the dot mp3 instead of that mp3 by [TS]

01:47:25   marcos better person [TS]

01:47:26   yeah i mean basically the only way this [TS]

01:47:28   works is that the market weird version [TS]

01:47:30   but all that that this the truly sad [TS]

01:47:33   part about all this is like after doing [TS]

01:47:35   all this research after figuring out [TS]

01:47:36   this this crazy info frame and the rest [TS]

01:47:39   of the PBR file format now i have like [TS]

01:47:41   this awesome parallel vbr encoder that I [TS]

01:47:43   basically can't use and that be because [TS]

01:47:46   even if I did the craziness required to [TS]

01:47:48   make this work with overcast ATP would [TS]

01:47:51   probably only podcast that ever did it [TS]

01:47:53   because most podcasts producers simply [TS]

01:47:56   don't care what audio quality very much [TS]

01:47:58   to them they encoded at like 64k and [TS]

01:48:00   that's good enough and maybe they're [TS]

01:48:02   paying per gigabyte and so they can [TS]

01:48:03   maybe they can't afford larger files [TS]

01:48:05   funny thing there though is like even if [TS]

01:48:07   you were doing 64k mono I've done [TS]

01:48:09   testing that to be already saving my [TS]

01:48:10   twenty-five thirty percent [TS]

01:48:11   for most shows but most people are not [TS]

01:48:14   interested in causing a possible [TS]

01:48:16   headache with certain players in [TS]

01:48:18   exchange for a 30-percent file savings [TS]

01:48:21   we gotta do it maybe it'll be like [TS]

01:48:22   handcrafted artisanal podcast we're like [TS]

01:48:24   yeah only you want to do it and five [TS]

01:48:26   other people in Brooklyn would do it was [TS]

01:48:28   like oh I everyone knows you have to [TS]

01:48:29   call it twice one dot mp3 for the peons [TS]

01:48:32   and then one down mp3 DeMarcos we're [TS]

01:48:34   very much by the way is bad branding if [TS]

01:48:36   you come up with a clever name for you [TS]

01:48:37   that I've done be three will be like [TS]

01:48:38   MDOT MP z which is probably already [TS]

01:48:40   taken or some other night mp3 got [TS]

01:48:43   something else like you could brand this [TS]

01:48:45   in a way that it's like yeah nobody does [TS]

01:48:47   this but the people who really care [TS]

01:48:48   about it you really care about locally [TS]

01:48:50   sourced handmade you know fairtrade [TS]

01:48:53   podcast they encode everything twice and [TS]

01:48:57   and and the one good player that cares [TS]

01:48:59   about it always makes a request for the [TS]

01:49:02   dot MPEG file first into the forest and [TS]

01:49:04   request that I mp3 but if it doesn't it [TS]

01:49:07   plays that MPC and it's better [TS]

01:49:09   yeah so basically i'm running this trend [TS]

01:49:11   expedition i achieved a lot i made [TS]

01:49:14   forecast a lot better by making it right [TS]

01:49:16   that in folk that crazy info frame and [TS]

01:49:18   and understand format a lot better and [TS]

01:49:20   be able to DVR forever needs to but the [TS]

01:49:22   moral of the story is I ran into a whole [TS]

01:49:25   bunch of barriers that basically nobody [TS]

01:49:27   will ever care as much as i do to fix [TS]

01:49:29   and that make it pretty much impossible [TS]

01:49:31   to really use for podcast in a [TS]

01:49:33   responsible way [TS]

01:49:34   oh here's the other angle on it like [TS]

01:49:37   remember one microsoft had secret api's [TS]

01:49:39   that only they could use to make their [TS]

01:49:40   apps faster and everything and people [TS]

01:49:42   were all angry about it [TS]

01:49:43   so this will you could do this frame [TS]

01:49:44   this as like this is a secret overcast [TS]

01:49:46   API but only a TPU knows everyone is [TS]

01:49:48   always obsessed with the idea that ATP [TS]

01:49:50   is like a preferential treatment in your [TS]

01:49:52   podcast app or whatever but like that [TS]

01:49:54   only ATP has access to it and you do it [TS]

01:49:56   and then when someone comes using well [TS]

01:49:58   actually it's not a secret API here's a [TS]

01:50:00   webpage it's been up for a year telling [TS]

01:50:01   you if you want to do this that make it [TS]

01:50:03   out mp3 file you can do it though and [TS]

01:50:04   then suddenly it's on them to be like if [TS]

01:50:07   they come back at all that's annoying [TS]

01:50:09   it's like well you wanted the secret API [TS]

01:50:11   you're wondering why it's overcast that [TS]

01:50:12   was ATP sounds so good and the file size [TS]

01:50:15   is so small and the other podcast don't [TS]

01:50:17   and that's the city you know so you got [TS]

01:50:19   you to make them come to you with the [TS]

01:50:21   anger about like ATP is using a secret [TS]

01:50:23   API and then you could say nope [TS]

01:50:25   not secret it was just so onerous that [TS]

01:50:27   we didn't think anyone else could do it [TS]

01:50:28   but the webpage has been there forever [TS]

01:50:29   and then they're like what can they say [TS]

01:50:31   they like oh well I guess we can do it [TS]

01:50:33   but it seems kind of annoying and so you [TS]

01:50:35   know anyway I stolen thank you good [TS]

01:50:37   option except in Brooklyn but that's [TS]

01:50:39   something right [TS]

01:50:40   yeah but they want to even they wouldn't [TS]

01:50:41   even want it because like the headphones [TS]

01:50:44   and stuff that look really cool that [TS]

01:50:46   they look cool to be in brooklyn aren't [TS]

01:50:48   actually good enough like the heat with [TS]

01:50:50   me and and and the sad part is about all [TS]

01:50:52   this [TS]

01:50:53   the main reason I be doing all this is [TS]

01:50:55   to make our theme song time better like [TS]

01:50:56   our speech we've already reached the [TS]

01:50:57   point where r speaks is being [TS]

01:50:59   represented in a way that is pretty much [TS]

01:51:01   what I'm puttin out from logic like it [TS]

01:51:03   you really can't tell the difference [TS]

01:51:04   between the wave and the mp3 for our [TS]

01:51:06   speech you can only tell for the theme [TS]

01:51:08   spot can do multiple enclosures so the [TS]

01:51:12   player will play the you know basically [TS]

01:51:15   have three mp3's have the for the show [TS]

01:51:18   the song and the after-show well it it [TS]

01:51:21   has to be one file for podcast clients [TS]

01:51:23   you could you potentially just have like [TS]

01:51:25   basically like three constant bitrate [TS]

01:51:28   sections of the file but then any seeks [TS]

01:51:31   during streaming to the after-show would [TS]

01:51:33   have the wrong time stamps [TS]

01:51:34   yeah and and when they're wrong they're [TS]

01:51:35   wrong by a lot like I like in my tests [TS]

01:51:38   like of privacy of your file it's off by [TS]

01:51:40   like a minute and a half like it's a [TS]

01:51:42   pretty big difference and has the wrong [TS]

01:51:44   time stamp and then yeah it's a it's a [TS]

01:51:46   mess when it happens so quickly back [TS]

01:51:48   just a little bit so you had said if you [TS]

01:51:51   created your own version of this table [TS]

01:51:54   you had stuff in in an ID three tag [TS]

01:51:56   hypothetically yes it most likely be too [TS]

01:51:58   big to fit in a frame and I wouldn't [TS]

01:52:00   want to run the risk of of a player [TS]

01:52:03   trying to play the frame as audio and [TS]

01:52:05   weird things coming out of speakers and [TS]

01:52:07   so again like it would mean it's no big [TS]

01:52:09   deal 72 NTID 383 has a max size of 256 [TS]

01:52:13   megabytes so if there's a lot you can [TS]

01:52:14   shove in there so the hypothetical [TS]

01:52:18   scenario then would be you have marcos [TS]

01:52:21   custom jump table in a 93 tag but you [TS]

01:52:25   would still presumably populate the [TS]

01:52:27   really crummy existing jump table that's [TS]

01:52:30   in that that frame correct yeah so the [TS]

01:52:33   and that would work with no server-side [TS]

01:52:35   changes that they would just work [TS]

01:52:37   if an overcast and it would fall back in [TS]

01:52:40   integrated gracefully another clients [TS]

01:52:42   but the problem you have with that is [TS]

01:52:44   that the the overcast jump to this [TS]

01:52:47   moment feature which hand on heart no [TS]

01:52:50   sarcasm intended i think might be the [TS]

01:52:52   most impressive feature of overcast even [TS]

01:52:54   more so than smart speed is that it [TS]

01:52:57   would break that feature and that's why [TS]

01:52:59   you don't want to do it [TS]

01:53:00   basically yeah because I i really do [TS]

01:53:02   think that my share links are very [TS]

01:53:05   important for podcasting tiger and you [TS]

01:53:07   know not a lot of people use them but [TS]

01:53:10   they do get used and and the usage is [TS]

01:53:12   going up over time that to me is very [TS]

01:53:14   important and I want to keep promoting [TS]

01:53:16   that I want to keep making them better [TS]

01:53:18   I have a lot of crazy ideas for how to [TS]

01:53:19   make them better most of most of these [TS]

01:53:21   ideas are terrible and whatever happened [TS]

01:53:23   or will able to I will tempt them [TS]

01:53:25   realize their terrible and then cancel [TS]

01:53:26   it before actual release them but some [TS]

01:53:28   of these ideas will actually work and [TS]

01:53:30   we'll be good [TS]

01:53:30   I don't know which one yet but that's [TS]

01:53:32   that that's good because I really do [TS]

01:53:36   care a lot about those times and this is [TS]

01:53:37   like this is one of the reasons why i [TS]

01:53:38   really get annoyed with some of the big [TS]

01:53:41   publishers using dynamic ad insertion [TS]

01:53:43   platforms because when they do dynamic [TS]

01:53:45   ad insertion which basically gives you [TS]

01:53:47   new ads on every download so if you [TS]

01:53:50   don't like a really old episode of like [TS]

01:53:52   a storytelling show and you get like a [TS]

01:53:54   brand new admits like how this company [TS]

01:53:56   didn't even exist when this episode and [TS]

01:53:58   2013 whatever that's what was happening [TS]

01:54:00   is like literally every downloader [TS]

01:54:01   serving you and the idea there is to [TS]

01:54:03   better monetize their back catalogues [TS]

01:54:06   because they're advertised paid back in [TS]

01:54:08   2013 they're getting paid anymore so [TS]

01:54:10   only let's put a new as we can charge [TS]

01:54:11   people again fun one of the problems [TS]

01:54:14   with these platforms one of the many [TS]

01:54:15   problems with platforms is that they [TS]

01:54:18   don't always have a daughter the same [TS]

01:54:19   length as the original ads so basically [TS]

01:54:21   timestamps are not persistent between [TS]

01:54:24   downloads because he liked the ads are [TS]

01:54:27   inserting in the show are very in length [TS]

01:54:30   on every download so it totally breaks [TS]

01:54:33   time timestamp share links with drive me [TS]

01:54:35   crazy but I'm trying to make sharing [TS]

01:54:37   better and you're throwing it away [TS]

01:54:38   everyone complains like podcast don't [TS]

01:54:41   share we need more sharing for podcast [TS]

01:54:43   and the big pockets producers make [TS]

01:54:44   sharing more difficult [TS]

01:54:45   well if you really want to solve that [TS]

01:54:47   problem you know the [TS]

01:54:49   quicktime /template consortium solution [TS]

01:54:51   that problem is that you need to have a [TS]

01:54:53   more comprehensive map of the content [TS]

01:54:56   that also incorporates the maps of the [TS]

01:54:58   ad so when they change the ads they [TS]

01:54:59   change the map and so you can do [TS]

01:55:01   it's like source maps for JavaScript [TS]

01:55:02   when you magnify it right now look you [TS]

01:55:04   little chapter you you could just you [TS]

01:55:06   could store the chapter idea an offset [TS]

01:55:07   in within the chapter ID rather what [TS]

01:55:09   that means the sharing links can't just [TS]

01:55:11   containing offset that percent [TS]

01:55:12   containment offset and like a version to [TS]

01:55:13   say in this version of follows this [TS]

01:55:15   offset and has to say oh well I haven't [TS]

01:55:16   started to add since then and I can [TS]

01:55:18   translate your offset exactly like [TS]

01:55:19   source Maps JavaScript this this offset [TS]

01:55:21   in this file is actually this offset in [TS]

01:55:23   this other file [TS]

01:55:24   yeah no don't do that though but because [TS]

01:55:26   the thing like any any advancement you [TS]

01:55:28   make in podcasting it you you basically [TS]

01:55:31   like you have to assume that if it [TS]

01:55:33   involves anybody anybody if it involves [TS]

01:55:36   many producers changing their workflow [TS]

01:55:38   in any way or changing their especially [TS]

01:55:41   changing their CMS anyway it's never [TS]

01:55:43   gonna happen [TS]

01:55:44   no I'm gonna do it yeah you need to have [TS]

01:55:45   one giant proprietary platform that can [TS]

01:55:47   dictate because the only thing that they [TS]

01:55:50   there what matter and whatever they do [TS]

01:55:52   is what everyone has to follow and [TS]

01:55:53   that's how it would work but we don't [TS]

01:55:54   have that and that's a good thing so [TS]

01:55:55   you're stuck in the technological [TS]

01:55:57   backwater that is the mp3 format enjoy [TS]

01:56:00   honestly I i really enjoyed I really do [TS]

01:56:02   enjoy the format the format is very [TS]

01:56:03   refreshing Lee simple and [TS]

01:56:06   straightforward it just has like this [TS]

01:56:08   one [TS]

01:56:08   wart of this stupid hundred bite [TS]

01:56:11   precision offset think three BR files [TS]

01:56:14   that and again when you went there [TS]

01:56:16   download it's not a problem it's only a [TS]

01:56:17   problem when they're streaming and [TS]

01:56:18   you're jumping ahead that's award an [TS]

01:56:20   award though because the original the [TS]

01:56:22   original words they don't have his [TS]

01:56:23   information in the secondary Ward is [TS]

01:56:25   we've tried to jam this information and [TS]

01:56:27   using tiny little bites and we can only [TS]

01:56:28   have a hundred we can only do [TS]

01:56:30   percentages [TS]

01:56:30   yeah well the bigger problem though is [TS]