The Accidental Tech Podcast

179: Free-to-Play Dogs


00:00:00   you know those are those are free to [TS]

00:00:02   play dogs we got some feedback with [TS]

00:00:08   regard to my maybe maybe not know I [TS]

00:00:11   guess it is definitely ailing but we [TS]

00:00:13   don't know why I mac an anonymous Apple [TS]

00:00:16   Genius wrote in and i'd like to read [TS]

00:00:17   this is pretty much their entire email [TS]

00:00:19   they said I see failures exactly like [TS]

00:00:22   the one you're describing the hanging [TS]

00:00:23   after waking from sleep after swapping [TS]

00:00:25   the stock ran back in not the reboots [TS]

00:00:28   the reboots were almost certainly owc [TS]

00:00:29   ram that do trackback to this to the GPU [TS]

00:00:32   for sure but much more frequently it is [TS]

00:00:34   just Apple not having its stuff together [TS]

00:00:36   software wise also nothing makes me [TS]

00:00:38   sadder than someone dropping off a [TS]

00:00:40   machine that's experiencing an [TS]

00:00:41   intermittent issue and it just sits [TS]

00:00:42   there for a week running stress testing [TS]

00:00:44   or diagnostics and we have to give it [TS]

00:00:46   back with a shrug when we find nothing [TS]

00:00:48   or worse when people are so utterly [TS]

00:00:49   convinced as Marco that the that a [TS]

00:00:51   problem is quote definitely hardware [TS]

00:00:54   quote that we get bullied into replacing [TS]

00:00:56   parts anyway for customer appeasement / [TS]

00:00:59   theater for failure that can't be [TS]

00:01:01   replicated and then have that person [TS]

00:01:03   pick up the machine and it's still [TS]

00:01:04   having the same issue because that issue [TS]

00:01:06   was never the hardware in the first [TS]

00:01:07   place [TS]

00:01:07   don't jump the gun be sure it's hardware [TS]

00:01:09   before you come in and we'll be able to [TS]

00:01:11   get it right the first time [TS]

00:01:12   signed apple genius best of luck and [TS]

00:01:15   don't listen to Marco sunglasses emoji [TS]

00:01:18   that is actually part of the email which [TS]

00:01:20   made me laugh so you have so this [TS]

00:01:22   particular genius said it could I may [TS]

00:01:26   may not be crazy and I have gotten a lot [TS]

00:01:29   of feedback about the imac and i am [TS]

00:01:32   happy to report that it was split about [TS]

00:01:34   right down the middle half the people [TS]

00:01:36   said I was insane for not bringing it in [TS]

00:01:37   and have people said I totally feel you [TS]

00:01:39   and you're doing the right thing [TS]

00:01:40   oh we should clarify you know this [TS]

00:01:42   because you made a pie chart i did I I [TS]

00:01:45   went full business on this because i [TS]

00:01:48   always carry it i was curious how this [TS]

00:01:50   is gonna play out because I share this [TS]

00:01:52   pie-chart oh yeah if you want i mean you [TS]

00:01:55   can like droplet or something red sheet [TS]

00:01:57   right you just made that it's a [TS]

00:01:58   spreadsheet and the graph is from the [TS]

00:01:59   spreadsheet is a google google sheets [TS]

00:02:01   thing or whatever it is a Google sheet [TS]

00:02:03   yeah so i probably could drop the sheet [TS]

00:02:05   if I really felt like it but i probably [TS]

00:02:08   won't because it's mostly irrelevant but [TS]

00:02:10   suffice to say i have tried [TS]

00:02:12   act just line items and I are attracted [TS]

00:02:16   feedback as line items I've split into [TS]

00:02:19   four categories pro Casey antique AC [TS]

00:02:21   jokes which is the beginning I thought [TS]

00:02:23   we're going to be far more frequent than [TS]

00:02:25   they were it ended up being only three [TS]

00:02:26   of them but let go just spilled water on [TS]

00:02:29   it again haha [TS]

00:02:30   and that was basically all three of them [TS]

00:02:31   and then neutral post which were [TS]

00:02:34   sometimes people saying like oh I can [TS]

00:02:37   understand your not wanting to bring it [TS]

00:02:38   in but maybe you should or oh we have [TS]

00:02:41   you tried using this memory testing tool [TS]

00:02:43   etc etc etc and so it has been 49 and a [TS]

00:02:49   half percent as for my fancy little [TS]

00:02:50   spreadsheet that has have been in the [TS]

00:02:53   pro Casey camp and between the anti [TS]

00:02:58   Casey and neutral posts [TS]

00:03:01   that's another 47.7 percent so there you [TS]

00:03:06   go [TS]

00:03:06   so so I have to ask the obvious question [TS]

00:03:09   which is has your Mac had any problems [TS]

00:03:12   since a week ago it has indeed but I can [TS]

00:03:15   explain these way as well don't you [TS]

00:03:16   worry [TS]

00:03:17   so as it turns out it has rebooted [TS]

00:03:19   itself twice but I am I hold on with our [TS]

00:03:22   a minute [TS]

00:03:23   yes hold on though that is because hold [TS]

00:03:26   on [TS]

00:03:27   that's because I've had power failures [TS]

00:03:28   both times and that is the end the imac [TS]

00:03:30   is not connected to my UPS all right [TS]

00:03:32   well that's not rebooting itself that's [TS]

00:03:33   a different thing [TS]

00:03:35   yeah it doesn't count but that's why i [TS]

00:03:36   said it's not it's it has had an issue [TS]

00:03:39   but its not its fault so that's not an [TS]

00:03:41   issue [TS]

00:03:42   well I mean I don't want it to reboot [TS]

00:03:43   itself but I mean when the powers of [TS]

00:03:44   yang there's nothing you can do is [TS]

00:03:46   perhaps the best reason for you to bring [TS]

00:03:48   this in for what may be one of several [TS]

00:03:50   frustrating visits to the apple store is [TS]

00:03:53   that if you don't every single week on [TS]

00:03:55   the show we are going to ask you how how [TS]

00:03:59   is the you know any new issues because [TS]

00:04:01   it's been on kind of like a week [TS]

00:04:02   interval right so every week there's a [TS]

00:04:04   potential that something could happen [TS]

00:04:06   that's correct although like these power [TS]

00:04:08   outages are really messing with the with [TS]

00:04:09   whatever the interval was uh I know it's [TS]

00:04:11   it's the worst [TS]

00:04:12   ok so it's a follow-up question because [TS]

00:04:15   the following section of the show he you [TS]

00:04:17   have a you know a three-thousand-dollar [TS]

00:04:18   high-end computer that uses your primary [TS]

00:04:20   computer at home you have a UPS why is [TS]

00:04:25   this computer not plugged into the [TS]

00:04:26   UPS well so it's plugged into the non [TS]

00:04:29   battery portion of the UPS because the [TS]

00:04:31   priority is the technology and [TS]

00:04:35   associated paraphernalia like my ear oh [TS]

00:04:38   and my router and all that other stuff [TS]

00:04:40   and it's not that big a deal to me if [TS]

00:04:43   this thing just croaks welts on as we've [TS]

00:04:45   already demonstrated hfs+ it's a big [TS]

00:04:48   deal em too shy i actually do in 10-20 [TS]

00:04:52   bring this up because i had intended to [TS]

00:04:53   move it over to the battery side i just [TS]

00:04:54   haven't had the chance yet and we almost [TS]

00:04:56   never lose power here it's we've just [TS]

00:04:58   had a couple of really really crummy [TS]

00:04:59   really really crummy summer [TS]

00:05:02   thunderstorms and it's just so happen [TS]

00:05:04   that we've lost power long enough for [TS]

00:05:06   you know it's been more than just a [TS]

00:05:07   flash it's been long enough for this [TS]

00:05:08   thing to get upset [TS]

00:05:11   yeah so it's on my to-do list move it to [TS]

00:05:14   the other side of the power strip thing [TS]

00:05:16   do as I power left in your thingy like [TS]

00:05:18   whatever size the ups's yeah you knowing [TS]

00:05:21   that was that was the reason why wasn't [TS]

00:05:23   there already is because i wanted to [TS]

00:05:24   give as much time as possible to the [TS]

00:05:26   synology because my hypothetical here is [TS]

00:05:29   that I'm gonna be in a situation where i [TS]

00:05:30   don't have the ability to turn the [TS]

00:05:32   synology off and this actually came up [TS]

00:05:34   when we were in San Francisco together [TS]

00:05:35   we were all Jason smells my watch [TS]

00:05:38   started going berserk because i was [TS]

00:05:40   getting push notifications from the [TS]

00:05:41   technology that the power is going on [TS]

00:05:44   and off and on and off and on and off [TS]

00:05:45   and on and off and i actually asked [TS]

00:05:47   Jason if he wouldn't mind if I used his [TS]

00:05:50   5k imac to log into the synology and [TS]

00:05:53   shut itself down because I didn't want [TS]

00:05:55   it to you know violently dye it if the [TS]

00:05:58   power and stayed off long enough and so [TS]

00:06:01   that's why i have the synology on the [TS]

00:06:04   UPS but i kept the imac off of it [TS]

00:06:08   because I wanted all available power to [TS]

00:06:10   the technology so it can hang on as long [TS]

00:06:11   as possible in the event of a power [TS]

00:06:13   outage like I said this has been very [TS]

00:06:14   peculiar because generally we don't have [TS]

00:06:17   any issues with power here and we we [TS]

00:06:20   used to have them relatively frequently [TS]

00:06:22   but there was a tree branch on the lines [TS]

00:06:25   right outside my neighborhood and [TS]

00:06:26   everything's in ground in the [TS]

00:06:27   neighborhood and that tree branches cut [TS]

00:06:29   cut back by the power company a year or [TS]

00:06:31   two ago for exactly this reason to [TS]

00:06:33   prevent this from happening it's just [TS]

00:06:34   been a peculiar lately that I've lost [TS]

00:06:36   power a lot so I my to-do list remove [TS]

00:06:38   the imac over to the battery side of the [TS]

00:06:40   eps I just haven't had the chance yet [TS]

00:06:42   when I just unplug it right now because [TS]

00:06:44   it doesn't matter what do you remember [TS]

00:06:47   the violent death of the things that [TS]

00:06:48   this anthology will shut itself down the [TS]

00:06:50   UPS battery that's true sir actually I'm [TS]

00:06:52   glad you brought that up because that [TS]

00:06:53   you're absolutely right i'm sure i've [TS]

00:06:54   never actually tested that in so I'm [TS]

00:06:57   just scared i tested it unintentionally [TS]

00:07:00   and also get better get push [TS]

00:07:02   notifications i get emails every time we [TS]

00:07:04   vacuum in the basement the technology [TS]

00:07:07   sends me email about going to UPS and [TS]

00:07:09   then going back to power because it's [TS]

00:07:11   like a flicker when you Empire up the [TS]

00:07:13   air the vacuum on the same circuit as [TS]

00:07:15   the am I my house is under the panel and [TS]

00:07:19   my house is undersized for the things we [TS]

00:07:20   have done it anyway I've tested many [TS]

00:07:23   times where we lost power for long [TS]

00:07:25   enough and it sends me emails then I [TS]

00:07:27   think it also sends you know it's like [TS]

00:07:28   well pump shutting down by and then when [TS]

00:07:31   it comes back on i forget if you get the [TS]

00:07:32   goodbye email but you certainly get the [TS]

00:07:33   turning back online and yeah there's a [TS]

00:07:34   setting in the thing where you can tell [TS]

00:07:36   it when what percentage shutdown or [TS]

00:07:38   whatever [TS]

00:07:39   yeah I have that turned on like i said i [TS]

00:07:41   was just scared of it and i should add [TS]

00:07:43   just for interesting that the way I got [TS]

00:07:46   push notifications was by an app called [TS]

00:07:47   pushover which it i'm sure there's other [TS]

00:07:50   ones like this but basically i get a [TS]

00:07:52   unique email from the pushover company [TS]

00:07:55   that i have the synology send emails to [TS]

00:07:58   and then that gets forwarded actually if [TS]

00:08:00   this and that probably does something [TS]

00:08:01   like this that a that email gets [TS]

00:08:04   forwarded to my iphone and then to my [TS]

00:08:07   watch is so the push notification [TS]

00:08:09   getting is really just that same email [TS]

00:08:10   that you're getting I just having I'm [TS]

00:08:12   having it forwarded on to a to a service [TS]

00:08:14   that will send the push notification so [TS]

00:08:17   just pro tip but yeah I should I should [TS]

00:08:19   definitely move this over to the battery [TS]

00:08:21   side for sure i wanted to talk a little [TS]

00:08:24   bit more about pokemon I after we [TS]

00:08:27   recorded last week there were a couple [TS]

00:08:28   of interest or whether there was one [TS]

00:08:30   trend i notice what I just thought was [TS]

00:08:32   fascinating and i noticed two local well [TS]

00:08:37   what was once a museum was a park the [TS]

00:08:39   Science Museum of Virginia which is here [TS]

00:08:40   in richmond i had posted on their [TS]

00:08:43   facebook page i kind of feel like such [TS]

00:08:45   an old person i say that but i think [TS]

00:08:47   that is the proper vernacular looking to [TS]

00:08:49   catch somewhere pokemon while [TS]

00:08:50   all seeing some pretty incredible [TS]

00:08:51   hashtag science this weekend the [TS]

00:08:54   museum's pokey stops will have a hashtag [TS]

00:08:56   learning modules planted to attract wild [TS]

00:08:58   hashtag pokemon while our exhibits are [TS]

00:09:00   filled with old with Jana so I'm [TS]

00:09:03   supposed to say the Museum of Science [TS]

00:09:05   Museum Virginia had taken it upon [TS]

00:09:07   themselves to install lawyers in the [TS]

00:09:11   pokey stops that are probably one or [TS]

00:09:13   more focused stops that's at the science [TS]

00:09:15   museum to try to attract people to come [TS]

00:09:18   visit which I thought was really [TS]

00:09:19   interesting and then may not park which [TS]

00:09:21   is a park also here in richmond and [TS]

00:09:23   that's actually where where Aaron and I [TS]

00:09:26   got engaged [TS]

00:09:27   pokemon go catch them all at me months [TS]

00:09:30   and there's a cage clearly photoshopped [TS]

00:09:32   picture of of a family looking at one of [TS]

00:09:36   the pokemon pokeyman pokeyman etc [TS]

00:09:39   whatever its called [TS]

00:09:40   anyway the point being they did an [TS]

00:09:43   after-hours exclusive event where for [TS]

00:09:47   ten dollars a person you can go to [TS]

00:09:50   maymont park which is beautiful and it's [TS]

00:09:52   free generally but it's absolutely worth [TS]

00:09:53   going to [TS]

00:09:54   yeah lots of join us for an exclusive [TS]

00:09:57   after-hours pokemon go event as we [TS]

00:09:59   activate lures in the app and explore [TS]

00:10:01   the grounds in search of mysterious [TS]

00:10:02   creatures that only come out at night [TS]

00:10:03   $10 a person five if you remember adults [TS]

00:10:06   must accompany children ages 15 and [TS]

00:10:07   under the tickets are limited to the [TS]

00:10:09   first 300 register registrants oh [TS]

00:10:11   actually that's happening a week from [TS]

00:10:13   tomorrow as it turns out so I just [TS]

00:10:15   thought that this was really interesting [TS]

00:10:17   that these local businesses and guilt [TS]

00:10:20   museums and parks which I don't have the [TS]

00:10:22   perception of being slightly starting to [TS]

00:10:24   me even the science museum i got on this [TS]

00:10:26   bandwagon of getting people to spend [TS]

00:10:29   actual money playing this game but the [TS]

00:10:32   money they're spending isn't on the game [TS]

00:10:33   it's with these venues I just I thought [TS]

00:10:35   it was really really clever idea and not [TS]

00:10:37   unique to Richmond but it it just popped [TS]

00:10:40   up on my radar because these are local [TS]

00:10:41   places i thought it was cool [TS]

00:10:43   what do you think the chances are that [TS]

00:10:44   the games servers will actually hold you [TS]

00:10:46   know number one hold up in that area and [TS]

00:10:48   number two work properly so like [TS]

00:10:50   everybody would actually see the Lord's [TS]

00:10:52   and everything [TS]

00:10:53   a week from now who knows right now the [TS]

00:10:56   the frustration of my household of the [TS]

00:10:57   servers are always down like my wife and [TS]

00:11:00   children have taken up the game either [TS]

00:11:02   and what do you think having been in the [TS]

00:11:05   proximity of the game now every time I [TS]

00:11:07   went on walks with them i use my stone [TS]

00:11:09   to to catch some for her she's into it [TS]

00:11:11   they're into its good excuse to walk [TS]

00:11:12   around in fact I think they're probably [TS]

00:11:14   still out now even though it's like dark [TS]

00:11:16   because the servers were down there were [TS]

00:11:17   we're gonna go on a walk to catch [TS]

00:11:19   program but the servers have been out [TS]

00:11:21   until very recently tonight so they're [TS]

00:11:23   basically down anytime you want to do it [TS]

00:11:24   hey everyone's home from work and kids [TS]

00:11:25   are home from camp or whatever let's go [TS]

00:11:27   hunting for pokemon and that's exactly [TS]

00:11:29   when the servers are down and I guess [TS]

00:11:32   enough kids went to bed the server [TS]

00:11:33   backup anyway it's frustrating the most [TS]

00:11:35   heartwarming story i read about pokemon [TS]

00:11:39   which is on the internet so must be true [TS]

00:11:40   is that an animal shelter had a posting [TS]

00:11:44   that says basically if you if you want [TS]

00:11:46   to play pokemon but you're embarrassed [TS]

00:11:47   to let people see you playing which he [TS]

00:11:50   shouldn't be but you know if you're [TS]

00:11:51   embarrassed if you love you playing [TS]

00:11:52   pokemon come to our dog shelter and four [TS]

00:11:56   five dollars an hour you can rent one of [TS]

00:11:57   our dogs and walk it haha don't look [TS]

00:12:00   like you're walking a dog when really [TS]

00:12:03   you're hunting for pokemon so here are [TS]

00:12:05   the results of this they now have a [TS]

00:12:07   waiting list of people who want to pay [TS]

00:12:09   for the privilege of walking a dog they [TS]

00:12:10   made so much money on rental fees for [TS]

00:12:12   the dogs that they've waived the [TS]

00:12:13   adoption fees when people running dogs [TS]

00:12:15   are out walking they post pictures of [TS]

00:12:17   themselves playing the game on facebook [TS]

00:12:18   instagram people are then coming to the [TS]

00:12:20   shelter asking to adopt the specific [TS]

00:12:22   dogs they saw in the pictures of these [TS]

00:12:23   two occasions people have called the [TS]

00:12:25   Challenger and said hey I didn't think I [TS]

00:12:27   really wanted a dog but me and this dog [TS]

00:12:28   get along really well so i'm not [TS]

00:12:29   bringing him back and the shelter [TS]

00:12:31   currently has no dogs available to rent [TS]

00:12:32   and there's a waiting list all the dogs [TS]

00:12:34   have been adopted they're bringing in [TS]

00:12:35   new york some other shelters [TS]

00:12:37   that's amazing that's great if even if [TS]

00:12:39   even if that's only half true that's [TS]

00:12:41   still great and I hope it's all true [TS]

00:12:43   yeah I completely great like the idea at [TS]

00:12:45   the best part of that again if it's true [TS]

00:12:47   as a kid instead of paying people to [TS]

00:12:49   like the shelters like we have all these [TS]

00:12:50   dogs and we don't have enough staff [TS]

00:12:51   members to walk that way we get people [TS]

00:12:53   come back to walk through the reversing [TS]

00:12:55   the cash flow come to us pay us to walk [TS]

00:12:57   our dog it's like that usually like [TS]

00:12:59   begging for volunteers to come do it for [TS]

00:13:01   free right and that all the dogs get [TS]

00:13:04   adopted away because of the magic of [TS]

00:13:06   social media that the dog pad his dog [TS]

00:13:08   shelters empty have to pull from other [TS]

00:13:09   dog shelter was also like you know so [TS]

00:13:12   often people come up with the idea or [TS]

00:13:13   wouldn't be great if you could rent [TS]

00:13:14   puppies [TS]

00:13:15   hubby rental is a really cool sounding [TS]

00:13:18   idea for about four seconds until you [TS]

00:13:20   think about the reality of what that [TS]

00:13:22   doesn't actually be like if you're like [TS]

00:13:23   oh that's horrible but grown dog rental [TS]

00:13:29   from like a shelter where these dogs [TS]

00:13:31   have nobody else and really need people [TS]

00:13:34   that flips it around completely like [TS]

00:13:36   that's that takes this great sounding [TS]

00:13:39   for a second but ultimately terrible [TS]

00:13:41   idea and make him something endearing [TS]

00:13:43   and and positive and overall pleasant I [TS]

00:13:46   I honestly really hope it was real [TS]

00:13:48   yeah I I have my doubts but i really [TS]

00:13:50   hope it's real you know what those are [TS]

00:13:52   those are free to play dogs see things [TS]

00:13:56   that they don't because they're like you [TS]

00:13:58   know what I really like this dog i want [TS]

00:14:00   to adopt and then you essentially done [TS]

00:14:02   in app purchase for you know a dozen [TS]

00:14:04   years of paying for vet bills and dog [TS]

00:14:07   food and all the other things you have [TS]

00:14:08   to pay for you just it's free-to-play is [TS]

00:14:10   free to walk the dog but it's a trap [TS]

00:14:12   because they know based on human nature [TS]

00:14:14   the dogs are adorable and people are [TS]

00:14:16   gonna fall in love with them and then [TS]

00:14:18   they get the big bucks [TS]

00:14:19   yeah the final the final delightful [TS]

00:14:22   things that apparently this this bubble [TS]

00:14:23   has boosted nintendo stock price so much [TS]

00:14:25   that their market cap is now bigger than [TS]

00:14:27   sony its business so I i do wonder do [TS]

00:14:32   you guys think that Pokemon go is [TS]

00:14:34   actually going to still be relevant even [TS]

00:14:36   in a week you know again you know it [TS]

00:14:38   basically to what degree do you think [TS]

00:14:39   this is just like a big spike fall by a [TS]

00:14:41   big crashes just fat or do you think [TS]

00:14:43   it's gonna actually stick around as like [TS]

00:14:45   a game people play for for a pretty long [TS]

00:14:47   time how's my question last week was [TS]

00:14:49   like that new trainers because Pokemon [TS]

00:14:51   has always been popular every time your [TS]

00:14:52   pok√©mon game comes out all the people [TS]

00:14:54   who are rabid Pokemon fans who buy every [TS]

00:14:56   single game by it the question is how [TS]

00:14:58   many more of those people does this make [TS]

00:15:00   because yeah there's going to be a [TS]

00:15:01   dropoff like oh I play this when I was [TS]

00:15:03   really popular but I wasn't into it [TS]

00:15:05   enough to become a dedicated fan of the [TS]

00:15:07   franchise so when the next game comes [TS]

00:15:09   out you see how many of those people [TS]

00:15:10   come back and i think it it has to add [TS]

00:15:13   more fans like just because it's got so [TS]

00:15:15   much exposure to people who've never [TS]

00:15:16   played pokemon games before it has to [TS]

00:15:18   add more not sure how much more [TS]

00:15:20   certainly this spike is an aberration [TS]

00:15:23   and I don't expect intend to keep every [TS]

00:15:27   single one of the people who are playing [TS]

00:15:29   well as long term dedicated players of [TS]

00:15:33   the franchise you know I to put things [TS]

00:15:35   in perspective it i think its recently [TS]

00:15:38   as a couple of weeks ago I was visiting [TS]

00:15:40   with my parents and they were still [TS]

00:15:42   playing words with friends so I mean [TS]

00:15:45   these things can be sticky and I think [TS]

00:15:47   this is going to be at least in part a [TS]

00:15:50   flash-in-the-pan flash-in-the-pan but i [TS]

00:15:52   think it given the pokemon yellow bet [TS]

00:15:57   the backstory and and how many people [TS]

00:15:59   have enjoyed it so much in the past i [TS]

00:16:01   think it will be a lot stickier than [TS]

00:16:03   most of these other things like for [TS]

00:16:04   example draw something which was all [TS]

00:16:07   this is amazing LOL ok nobody cares [TS]

00:16:09   yeah right dress up as a higher bar and [TS]

00:16:11   your parents still playing that same [TS]

00:16:12   game is not really helping the word for [TS]

00:16:14   helping zing or whatever unless they're [TS]

00:16:16   dumping more money into it right the [TS]

00:16:17   whole question for the the games like [TS]

00:16:20   pokemon is when we come out with the [TS]

00:16:22   inevitable improve sequel will you do [TS]

00:16:25   that one too and also liked it last week [TS]

00:16:27   alright have you ever put any money into [TS]

00:16:29   this is all your money going to rent [TS]

00:16:31   dogs to walk like where is the money [TS]

00:16:34   going like obviously there are people [TS]

00:16:35   who are putting money into this game is [TS]

00:16:37   going to make money for all the people [TS]

00:16:38   involved but it's not the money is [TS]

00:16:40   coming from a small number of people who [TS]

00:16:43   spend a lot and almost everybody else it [TS]

00:16:45   seems like you're spending nothing so [TS]

00:16:46   far no one in my family spent anything [TS]

00:16:48   either [TS]

00:16:49   yep I just I'm really fascinated by the [TS]

00:16:55   way in which the the real world and the [TS]

00:16:58   you know this this electronic this [TS]

00:17:00   entertainment world have collided and [TS]

00:17:02   I've been I mean there's been some [TS]

00:17:04   crummy stories coming out of it because [TS]

00:17:05   humans are terrible but I just been I [TS]

00:17:09   thought it was so need and i still think [TS]

00:17:11   it's so neat and such an interesting an [TS]

00:17:14   interesting investigation into how these [TS]

00:17:15   things kind of come together and and in [TS]

00:17:18   an interesting case study if you'll [TS]

00:17:19   permit me to use a terrible business [TS]

00:17:20   term it's been fascinating to watch so [TS]

00:17:23   very cool stuff [TS]

00:17:26   our first sponsor tonight is betterment [TS]

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00:18:33   fees by going to betterment calm / ATP [TS]

00:18:36   that's better'n dot-com / ATP betterment [TS]

00:18:40   investing made better [TS]

00:18:45   softbank which is a Japanese company are [TS]

00:18:48   they a cell phone carrier or I don't [TS]

00:18:50   know much about them they're like a [TS]

00:18:51   holding company i think they do have [TS]

00:18:53   their telecommunication somebody do have [TS]

00:18:55   like a cell phone ring [TS]

00:18:56   okay well regardless they have bought [TS]

00:18:58   arm 432 billion dollars haven't bought [TS]

00:19:02   want to buy from the process of trying [TS]

00:19:05   to buy i think that the deals not yet [TS]

00:19:07   finalised I what we think about this [TS]

00:19:09   that this is I'm I'm not so much [TS]

00:19:12   interested in the details of like are [TS]

00:19:14   more the history of arm especially you [TS]

00:19:16   know like that you can read a lot of [TS]

00:19:17   stories about its origins with the the [TS]

00:19:19   Newton and where this whole effort came [TS]

00:19:21   from and although the business I'm [TS]

00:19:23   mostly interested in terms of thinking [TS]

00:19:26   about how Apple implements its famous we [TS]

00:19:32   want to own and control the major [TS]

00:19:34   technologies and I for whatever the [TS]

00:19:35   temple quotas like they think they want [TS]

00:19:37   to control technologies that go into [TS]

00:19:38   their products right they they do that [TS]

00:19:41   selectively like they do it according to [TS]

00:19:45   their own definition so I was thinking [TS]

00:19:49   of an example they don't own the [TS]

00:19:53   companies that make the really tough [TS]

00:19:54   class that goes on top of my phones and [TS]

00:19:56   they don't own now corning or whoever [TS]

00:19:58   makes like the gorilla glass or the [TS]

00:20:00   variance or whatever they don't own [TS]

00:20:02   foxconn or the companies that assemble [TS]

00:20:06   their products you would encourage you [TS]

00:20:08   know are those the core technologies or [TS]

00:20:11   whatever they specific wording was using [TS]

00:20:13   that quote i guess not right they do own [TS]

00:20:17   the operating system they do own like [TS]

00:20:20   the hardware designs and you know the [TS]

00:20:22   whole like the product and although this [TS]

00:20:24   stuff but some parts of it they always [TS]

00:20:27   considered to be like I will pay [TS]

00:20:29   somebody else do that and it doesn't [TS]

00:20:31   really matter that much because if we [TS]

00:20:34   can't get this glass from this company [TS]

00:20:36   will try to get from this other one of [TS]

00:20:37   this company will assemble our phones [TS]

00:20:39   like will pick suppliers against each [TS]

00:20:40   other like that they end up being just [TS]

00:20:41   being a supplier so the question for arm [TS]

00:20:44   arm which makes the doesn't make the [TS]

00:20:46   chips but arm which owns the [TS]

00:20:48   intellectual property to the instruction [TS]

00:20:50   set and some of the architectural [TS]

00:20:52   details in many many patents and so on [TS]

00:20:53   and so forth for the CPUs that are in [TS]

00:20:55   all of Apple's iOS devices [TS]

00:20:57   is that just another supplier or is that [TS]

00:21:01   something that Apple need stone and [TS]

00:21:03   control and the reason that comes up is [TS]

00:21:04   it as far as I'm aware as we record this [TS]

00:21:06   this deal is not finalized [TS]

00:21:08   should Apple be concerned that some [TS]

00:21:11   company that's not them and there's not [TS]

00:21:14   whoever you know the current armed [TS]

00:21:15   people who are running arm is going to [TS]

00:21:18   buy the company that I feel like another [TS]

00:21:23   they rely on but that is an integral [TS]

00:21:25   part of their most important products [TS]

00:21:28   should they care they're like well [TS]

00:21:30   whatever you guys do whatever you want [TS]

00:21:31   as long as you continue to give us the [TS]

00:21:33   ARM architecture license lets us [TS]

00:21:34   essentially build our building designer [TS]

00:21:37   on cpu's with your intellectual property [TS]

00:21:39   its core were fine I don't care really [TS]

00:21:41   careful loans arm or should they be like [TS]

00:21:43   someone get the checkbook [TS]

00:21:45   we've got 32 billion dollars between the [TS]

00:21:46   couch cushions we should just outbid [TS]

00:21:48   them I it's hard to say without the the [TS]

00:21:50   details of the deal that they have a [TS]

00:21:52   farm but this is this intellectual [TS]

00:21:53   property is super super important i mean [TS]

00:21:55   this is what all the a-series chips run [TS]

00:21:57   on right so I'm so torn i would say it [TS]

00:22:01   is not important for them to own arm as [TS]

00:22:03   long as they have what as close as they [TS]

00:22:07   can get to an in perpetuity license for [TS]

00:22:10   whatever IP they currently have [TS]

00:22:12   I mean there's also like there's if you [TS]

00:22:14   look at what apple buys and what they [TS]

00:22:15   don't buy they tend not to buy component [TS]

00:22:19   manufacturers that also supply the [TS]

00:22:21   entire rest of the computing industry [TS]

00:22:22   with parts so like they don't by Intel [TS]

00:22:25   you don't see them buying AMD or nvidia [TS]

00:22:28   they don't buy like a flash ran [TS]

00:22:30   manufacturer attempt to buy samsung [TS]

00:22:32   because half the component come from [TS]

00:22:33   Samsung like it there are lots of these [TS]

00:22:35   you know component suppliers that that [TS]

00:22:38   make all sorts of you know parts that go [TS]

00:22:41   in multiple kinds of computers or phones [TS]

00:22:44   or whatever else not just apples and [TS]

00:22:46   apple you know you could make an [TS]

00:22:48   argument that Apple should maybe by [TS]

00:22:50   intel or something like that you know as [TS]

00:22:52   if we ever talk about the mac line up [TS]

00:22:54   being so stale again this episode [TS]

00:22:56   because we talk about every episode [TS]

00:22:57   because the really big problem [TS]

00:22:58   you know you could look at me like maybe [TS]

00:23:00   Apple should just buy Intel and run that [TS]

00:23:02   company you know in their own interest [TS]

00:23:03   but you know it [TS]

00:23:05   there's a reason why they don't have [TS]

00:23:06   lots of reasons why they don't first of [TS]

00:23:08   all Apple tends to not buy companies at [TS]

00:23:10   that long [TS]

00:23:10   George because if they tend not to need [TS]

00:23:12   to i would imagine they have some kind [TS]

00:23:17   of deal with the armed license that they [TS]

00:23:19   have because they have a special license [TS]

00:23:20   be able to do their own ship designs [TS]

00:23:21   with that other details of that i will [TS]

00:23:24   probably hear about it from our readers [TS]

00:23:25   but basically i would imagine they have [TS]

00:23:29   ways to not get locked out of that [TS]

00:23:30   forever say the country needed by armed [TS]

00:23:32   and if they did ever try to buy one of [TS]

00:23:34   these companies that also supplies the [TS]

00:23:35   rest of the industry with major [TS]

00:23:37   important parts like it tell her arm [TS]

00:23:39   they would probably be regulatory issues [TS]

00:23:42   with that that would probably not be [TS]

00:23:44   great for them with the Justice [TS]

00:23:45   Department and with the FTC maybe or [TS]

00:23:48   whoever does the kind of regulatory [TS]

00:23:49   management there there be political [TS]

00:23:52   problems with that there might be you [TS]

00:23:53   know justice problems and address [TS]

00:23:54   problems so there's lots of reasons for [TS]

00:23:57   them not to buy these companies that [TS]

00:23:58   also supply everybody else with stuff [TS]

00:24:00   but I think about is not so much who the [TS]

00:24:03   company's supply but could Apple get [TS]

00:24:06   that same thing from somewhere else and [TS]

00:24:07   most things I can think of like Intel's [TS]

00:24:10   I go you can get x86 CPUs anywhere else [TS]

00:24:12   well you can you get them from AMD it's [TS]

00:24:14   not a lot of choices but there is at [TS]

00:24:15   least one other choices out there for [TS]

00:24:18   flash ram other things like that even [TS]

00:24:21   the glass stuff you could argue that no [TS]

00:24:24   one has the specific kind of glad that [TS]

00:24:26   they want except for corning or whatever [TS]

00:24:28   but like you can get glass from [TS]

00:24:30   somewhere else but because what arm [TS]

00:24:33   supplies arm doesn't make anything with [TS]

00:24:35   all our supplies is intellectual [TS]

00:24:37   property as any licensing like they [TS]

00:24:39   don't you know they license out designs [TS]

00:24:41   and the right to use this instruction [TS]

00:24:43   set and all that stuff I don't think you [TS]

00:24:45   can get that anywhere else there is no [TS]

00:24:47   alternate supplier for that so if for [TS]

00:24:49   example softbank buys arm and slowly [TS]

00:24:52   transitions to company away i'm not [TS]

00:24:53   they're going to this but like decides [TS]

00:24:55   that they're you know arm is going to [TS]

00:24:56   become a company that does augmented [TS]

00:24:58   reality games you collect monsters but [TS]

00:25:00   it seems like a more lucrative future [TS]

00:25:01   Apple can't but I don't think Apple the [TS]

00:25:05   matter what contracts they have the best [TS]

00:25:07   they could hope for is like you can [TS]

00:25:08   continue to make chips [TS]

00:25:09   according to the designs of already [TS]

00:25:11   licensed but there will be no new [TS]

00:25:12   designs and by the way you can make your [TS]

00:25:14   own designs without licensing these [TS]

00:25:16   patents from us or without otherwise [TS]

00:25:18   buying the intellectual property that [TS]

00:25:19   underlies that like because of the weird [TS]

00:25:22   accident of history that x86 and [TS]

00:25:24   AMD being able to make XXX compatible [TS]

00:25:26   chips I don't think there's any [TS]

00:25:27   equipment that are matter i'm sure [TS]

00:25:28   people will send it in a sentence under [TS]

00:25:31   the corrections that was not the case [TS]

00:25:32   month follow-up on the next show but I i [TS]

00:25:35   keep thinking about it in terms of uh is [TS]

00:25:39   there an alternate supplier like how how [TS]

00:25:41   important is armed apple and what are [TS]

00:25:43   there alternatives if something weird [TS]

00:25:46   starts to happen there and i also think [TS]

00:25:47   about this and speaking of Max a lot of [TS]

00:25:49   questions we've gotten about this with [TS]

00:25:50   the arm feels like does this make it [TS]

00:25:52   more or less likely that our max you're [TS]

00:25:54   gonna come out w seems like it'd do any [TS]

00:25:56   announcements indicate our max why [TS]

00:25:59   haven't we already see marmax and me [TS]

00:26:01   thinking about our maximum for a while [TS]

00:26:02   gonna and I i thought--like x86 max [TS]

00:26:06   again [TS]

00:26:07   worst-case scenario you have to [TS]

00:26:09   suppliers that you could convince to [TS]

00:26:11   make you x86 CPUs i'm good i guess if [TS]

00:26:15   you have enough money and things [TS]

00:26:15   possibly like all right well someone [TS]

00:26:17   will license us the ability to make our [TS]

00:26:19   own arm check some of the license is the [TS]

00:26:20   ability to make your own excesses like [TS]

00:26:22   we'll just buy the intellectual property [TS]

00:26:23   like we're never stuck because huge [TS]

00:26:26   problems of money as a [TS]

00:26:26   get-out-of-jail-free card so it doesn't [TS]

00:26:29   really matter what happens over there [TS]

00:26:30   until there are problems don't worry [TS]

00:26:31   about it but like for the arm max Mike [TS]

00:26:34   is it the Apple spends a lot of money [TS]

00:26:37   making the a you know I'm gonna say X [TS]

00:26:41   whatever the the a followed by a digit [TS]

00:26:43   system-on-a-chip things that are in all [TS]

00:26:45   their devices they hired a lot of people [TS]

00:26:47   they bought a lot of companies they do a [TS]

00:26:49   lot of work on their own their chips are [TS]

00:26:51   not like oh well just like since a [TS]

00:26:53   design from from arm and pay someone to [TS]

00:26:55   manufacture they do their own chip [TS]

00:26:57   design their own integration it's very [TS]

00:26:59   expensive very complicated it's a part [TS]

00:27:01   of apples competitive advantage is the [TS]

00:27:03   mac line which were about to talk about [TS]

00:27:05   the the ongoing stagnation is the mac [TS]

00:27:08   line worth doing an equal or possibly [TS]

00:27:12   even greater investment in chip design [TS]

00:27:14   to essentially do what intel and AMD [TS]

00:27:19   Nvidia or you know all the parts that [TS]

00:27:21   make up the parts that go into a mac [TS]

00:27:23   they're not simple parts they're [TS]

00:27:24   complicated their higher performance [TS]

00:27:27   things that go into phones they are [TS]

00:27:29   generally bigger they have more [TS]

00:27:31   transistors if you are going to sign up [TS]

00:27:33   today we're going to our max we can only [TS]

00:27:35   control the CPUs to go into them and we [TS]

00:27:36   can make them just the way [TS]

00:27:37   you want them that is a big investment [TS]

00:27:39   probably equal to the investment they're [TS]

00:27:42   putting into the the iphone [TS]

00:27:43   system-on-chips for a line of business [TS]

00:27:45   that is nowhere near the size of the iOS [TS]

00:27:47   line so maybe the thing that's keeping [TS]

00:27:49   our max away is not that apple would [TS]

00:27:51   like to get away from Intel it was doing [TS]

00:27:53   their products and it's kind of annoying [TS]

00:27:54   but just because it would cost so much [TS]

00:27:56   money for Apple to make a like we spent [TS]

00:27:59   a lot of that was talking about [TS]

00:28:00   can Apple make a an ARM chip is [TS]

00:28:02   competitive intel yeah maybe but i will [TS]

00:28:05   cost a lot of money [TS]

00:28:06   it's not easy to do that what Intel does [TS]

00:28:07   is not simple and i'm not quite sure [TS]

00:28:09   that Apple thinks the mac harbor line is [TS]

00:28:12   worth it is worth the investment and [TS]

00:28:15   even you could also argue that like [TS]

00:28:16   things with intel aren't bad enough yet [TS]

00:28:19   you know like and yet but this is gonna [TS]

00:28:21   leave it to our next topic a lot but you [TS]

00:28:23   know you need it in order for for app [TS]

00:28:25   for Apple to switch from powerpc to [TS]

00:28:27   Intel things have to get pretty bad with [TS]

00:28:30   our pc for a while and Intel hat was way [TS]

00:28:33   better like it there had to be this [TS]

00:28:35   massive Delta between the status quo of [TS]

00:28:38   them using powerpc and being you know [TS]

00:28:40   really having up having a problematic [TS]

00:28:42   roadmap and pretty bad neglect and [TS]

00:28:44   becoming very much uncompetitive with [TS]

00:28:46   the other side and have any other side [TS]

00:28:48   being intel on be really compelling and [TS]

00:28:51   have very few downsides to switching to [TS]

00:28:53   it and just these massive upsides and I [TS]

00:28:56   think right now if you look at like you [TS]

00:28:57   know what they have with intel versus [TS]

00:28:59   what a possible future with our max [TS]

00:29:01   would be I don't think the Delta between [TS]

00:29:03   those two is nearly as large as he used [TS]

00:29:05   to be you know between between tyrosine [TS]

00:29:07   until the Delta now is like well in tell [TS]

00:29:09   ya Intel is really slow to make new [TS]

00:29:12   chips but their chips that they do [TS]

00:29:14   release mostly are really good like they [TS]

00:29:17   get their occasional problems but for [TS]

00:29:20   the most part like they are very [TS]

00:29:21   competitive that's one of the reasons [TS]

00:29:23   why apple doesn't use AMD CPUs as you [TS]

00:29:25   know they could use whatever ABC even [TS]

00:29:29   called these data they stopped on stuff [TS]

00:29:31   for I don't even know anyway what you [TS]

00:29:34   know AMD CPUs aren't very competitive [TS]

00:29:36   with intel cpus and haven't been for [TS]

00:29:37   some time and in most markets that apple [TS]

00:29:39   would ship computers and intel cpus are [TS]

00:29:42   just really good yeah there they have [TS]

00:29:44   dramatically slowed down their rate of [TS]

00:29:47   improvement and new releases and all [TS]

00:29:49   these releases getting delayed and [TS]

00:29:50   everything [TS]

00:29:51   but they still use them because for the [TS]

00:29:53   most part they're really good and it's [TS]

00:29:55   using all these proven platforms Johnson [TS]

00:29:57   like all the parts that go into a full [TS]

00:30:00   computer i mean yet they do they do some [TS]

00:30:03   degree of it on the phones on the a [TS]

00:30:04   serious system-on-chips there but like [TS]

00:30:07   computers have all these different ports [TS]

00:30:09   and standards they have to do and [TS]

00:30:10   everything on a phone apple can't delete [TS]

00:30:12   ports fast enough [TS]

00:30:13   like there's a yeah we started out with [TS]

00:30:15   two we're gonna have one now like a and [TS]

00:30:17   it'll be ours we designed like no [TS]

00:30:19   computers have like four USB ports and [TS]

00:30:22   have all these video out standards and [TS]

00:30:23   all this like computers have to have a [TS]

00:30:25   most computers i guess the macbook one [TS]

00:30:27   doesn't but here most computers you have [TS]

00:30:29   to have all these standards of the [TS]

00:30:30   community is used after all these like [TS]

00:30:32   you know disc interfaces and i/o [TS]

00:30:35   interfaces and now you know all this [TS]

00:30:36   stuff that you don't really have to [TS]

00:30:39   think about much when you're just [TS]

00:30:40   designing iphones and ipads because they [TS]

00:30:41   don't use them but they don't need to [TS]

00:30:43   interoperate with up with most of these [TS]

00:30:45   devices so there's all this stuff that [TS]

00:30:47   like a computer needs and all this [TS]

00:30:49   competitiveness that Intel offers that [TS]

00:30:52   you know the difference between intel [TS]

00:30:55   now having a slow release cycle but [TS]

00:30:57   providing quite a lot when they do [TS]

00:30:59   finally release it versus what you have [TS]

00:31:02   to do to build up an entire computer [TS]

00:31:05   line using arm CPUs you know the amount [TS]

00:31:08   of work on the other side is so [TS]

00:31:09   tremendous and the game probably [TS]

00:31:12   wouldn't be that big [TS]

00:31:13   yeah and on top of that I feel like [TS]

00:31:16   Apple and Intel have a at least an ok [TS]

00:31:18   relationship right because it wasn't [TS]

00:31:20   that long ago that that I think it was [TS]

00:31:22   the first macbook air Intel created like [TS]

00:31:25   this completely one-off chip with the [TS]

00:31:27   cpu for the macbook air my crazy [TS]

00:31:29   thinking that do you remember this well [TS]

00:31:31   it it was a one-off packaging it they [TS]

00:31:34   didn't like create a whole custom chip [TS]

00:31:36   design but they created a custom socket [TS]

00:31:39   and like package for the chip to get [TS]

00:31:42   them to make the whole socket small sure [TS]

00:31:43   I still counted my point is just that [TS]

00:31:45   they were able to ask intel or four [TS]

00:31:49   tellin tell whatever the situation may [TS]

00:31:51   be hey we need this thing completely [TS]

00:31:53   custom to us we're cool right you can [TS]

00:31:55   and turns out they're cool you know with [TS]

00:31:57   it until did it and everyone was happy [TS]

00:32:00   except the people who bought the macbook [TS]

00:32:01   air because was a total turd hi mark [TS]

00:32:03   it i don't know I i think this what it [TS]

00:32:08   did the question is as we've been [TS]

00:32:10   dancing around is this Hardware [TS]

00:32:12   stagnation that we really need to talk [TS]

00:32:14   about again because we do need to talk [TS]

00:32:16   about it is this Hardware stagnation [TS]

00:32:18   really entails fault or is it apple's [TS]

00:32:19   fault before we move on to that I'm a [TS]

00:32:21   few more points on our vs intel like [TS]

00:32:24   we've talked before about like the the [TS]

00:32:25   from delta and how anything big enough [TS]

00:32:27   to be worthwhile and then in past [TS]

00:32:29   conversations also brought this point [TS]

00:32:30   will bring up again which is really it's [TS]

00:32:32   not about the performance Delta the [TS]

00:32:33   reason Apple be doing it because it is [TS]

00:32:34   before mr. increased control so i think [TS]

00:32:37   the real question to ask other than the [TS]

00:32:39   cost thing which I just brought up for [TS]

00:32:41   our vs intel is how much more control [TS]

00:32:44   does moving max arm give Apple then [TS]

00:32:47   you're currently as we can tell in this [TS]

00:32:48   case you just pointed out it's a pretty [TS]

00:32:50   high bar because it's like well of Apple [TS]

00:32:53   did their own ships they can control [TS]

00:32:55   everything they will control the [TS]

00:32:56   schedule they control the features they [TS]

00:32:57   control everything they possibly do but [TS]

00:32:59   it seemed like for the past many years [TS]

00:33:01   Apple controls an awful lot about what [TS]

00:33:03   Intel does in terms of I don't know [TS]

00:33:06   forcing the but really strongly [TS]

00:33:08   suggesting that they improve the [TS]

00:33:09   embedded gpus in there cpus and making [TS]

00:33:12   like this this whole a line of products [TS]

00:33:14   the ones that apple pies with the iris [TS]

00:33:15   graphics and everything that whole [TS]

00:33:16   product line just smells like apple [TS]

00:33:18   saying Intel for the next several [TS]

00:33:21   generations of chips here's what we want [TS]

00:33:22   out of your chips and then Intel [TS]

00:33:23   essentially doing it because Apple is I [TS]

00:33:26   would imagine the biggest and some cases [TS]

00:33:28   perhaps the only customer for these [TS]

00:33:29   weird chips because bought the cheaper [TS]

00:33:31   x86 windows laptop type things or [TS]

00:33:35   whatever just like well maybe we'll have [TS]

00:33:37   a top-of-the-line thing but our bread [TS]

00:33:39   and butter will be those [TS]

00:33:39   middle-of-the-road one so just another [TS]

00:33:41   reason that plastic wait a lot so [TS]

00:33:42   certainly Apple would have more control [TS]

00:33:44   with arm but it would cost them a ton of [TS]

00:33:47   money to make our trips to the mac and [TS]

00:33:49   Intel thus far seems pretty willing to [TS]

00:33:52   do essentially whatever Apple wants with [TS]

00:33:53   the chips it's just a question of [TS]

00:33:55   delivery and apple could say well the [TS]

00:33:57   increased control would have even though [TS]

00:33:59   Intel's pretty nice to us and have a [TS]

00:34:00   good relationship and they're pretty [TS]

00:34:02   much willing to do the kinds of things [TS]

00:34:03   we ask for they take a long time and [TS]

00:34:06   sometimes they screw up and we looked [TS]

00:34:07   like if we did it ourselves we would do [TS]

00:34:10   a better job and the second aspect of [TS]

00:34:12   this is like [TS]

00:34:13   for the performance Delta and waiting [TS]

00:34:15   for things to happen to catch up another [TS]

00:34:17   possible strategy and possibly mention [TS]

00:34:19   our past shows is you don't have to [TS]

00:34:21   worry about it costing so much money to [TS]

00:34:23   make an ARM chip for your mac all you [TS]

00:34:25   got to do is wait until the ipad pro is [TS]

00:34:27   faster than all the existing max and [TS]

00:34:29   then just use that chip that you've [TS]

00:34:31   already made for your bread-and-butter [TS]

00:34:33   iOS devices use that in max too because [TS]

00:34:36   at that point like it if those lines of [TS]

00:34:38   across and it's like well yeah and and [TS]

00:34:40   they're getting close like the top and [TS]

00:34:42   ipad pro and the bottom end the macbook [TS]

00:34:44   we're going to look at those numbers in [TS]

00:34:45   the past like and eventually if things [TS]

00:34:50   if the rate of change keeps going the [TS]

00:34:51   way they are and you know that the [TS]

00:34:54   system and chips that are in iOS devices [TS]

00:34:56   keep adding more power with a similar [TS]

00:34:59   power envelope assuming battery [TS]

00:35:01   technology is only increasing like five [TS]

00:35:02   or ten percent per year or whatever and [TS]

00:35:05   that the mac ones are like there-there [TS]

00:35:07   rate of performance increase is not [TS]

00:35:10   going up that fast those lines can end [TS]

00:35:12   up crossing and like all finally we [TS]

00:35:14   don't have to do some weird extra [TS]

00:35:15   investment to end up with armed ships [TS]

00:35:17   that we can use in our laptop max we [TS]

00:35:19   already do that investment for our [TS]

00:35:21   phones and iPads and whatever it is that [TS]

00:35:23   kind of the same way the ipads have [TS]

00:35:25   these ships like the only reason they [TS]

00:35:26   have those chips is because they need [TS]

00:35:27   them for the phones is certainly on the [TS]

00:35:28   ipad is not human [TS]

00:35:29   iphone kind of money so that the rising [TS]

00:35:32   tide of the iphones like anything [TS]

00:35:33   developed for the iphone that is [TS]

00:35:35   possibly useful elsewhere even if [TS]

00:35:36   slightly modified you get a lot of bang [TS]

00:35:39   for the buck by reusing that huge [TS]

00:35:41   investment we're also sponsor tonight by [TS]

00:35:44   tracker tracker makes losing things a [TS]

00:35:47   thing of the past go to the tracker com [TS]

00:35:49   right now and use code ATP thirty [TS]

00:35:52   percent off your entire order so the [TS]

00:35:55   tracker is or just tracker is this [TS]

00:35:58   little like disc thing and I it when I [TS]

00:36:01   saw these things i was amazed how small [TS]

00:36:02   it is it's a little coin-sized device [TS]

00:36:05   and you can attach it to keys wallets [TS]

00:36:08   bags computers anything any kind of [TS]

00:36:11   object that you might lose around the [TS]

00:36:13   house often you can just attach it to it [TS]

00:36:16   you connected to your smartphone and [TS]

00:36:18   then you can find the location of the [TS]

00:36:20   object that you attach the track or two [TS]

00:36:22   with the tap of a button on the phone [TS]

00:36:24   it's very very easy and it goes the [TS]

00:36:26   other way too [TS]

00:36:27   if you find the tracker object and you [TS]

00:36:29   can't find your phone you can push the [TS]

00:36:31   button on the tracker and your phone [TS]

00:36:33   will make a noise to let you find it [TS]

00:36:35   even if your phones on silent now this [TS]

00:36:37   is a really cool device you will never [TS]

00:36:39   lose anything again you can attach the [TS]

00:36:41   tracker to so many different objects you [TS]

00:36:44   know keys and wallets are like the [TS]

00:36:45   obvious one [TS]

00:36:46   you know bad computers you lose your [TS]

00:36:48   your your backpack or briefcase or [TS]

00:36:50   whatever that you need to turn around [TS]

00:36:51   the door there are so many reasons to [TS]

00:36:53   have this or if you misplace your phone [TS]

00:36:55   all the time you don't want to have an [TS]

00:36:56   Apple watch you know you have to have a [TS]

00:36:59   tracker in the house and just hit the [TS]

00:37:00   button your phone beeps so easy they [TS]

00:37:03   sold over 1.5 million of these things so [TS]

00:37:05   far they have the largest crowd gps [TS]

00:37:08   network in the world you're lost [TS]

00:37:10   I didn't even show up on a map even if [TS]

00:37:11   it's miles away so never lose anything [TS]

00:37:14   again with trackir the hardest thing I [TS]

00:37:17   have to find is really just their [TS]

00:37:18   website once you find the website [TS]

00:37:20   everything else is fine because the [TS]

00:37:21   website is the tracker dot com using the [TS]

00:37:23   product called tracker good thing is you [TS]

00:37:25   can spell tracker either way the product [TS]

00:37:28   name does not have the e because it's [TS]

00:37:29   cool and it's on the internet but if you [TS]

00:37:31   spell it with the ear without the E in [TS]

00:37:33   tracker either way the domain works to [TS]

00:37:36   go to the tracker that's th e tracker [TS]

00:37:39   dot com enter promo code ATP for thirty [TS]

00:37:43   percent off your entire order once [TS]

00:37:45   against the tracker com right now enter [TS]

00:37:48   promo code ATP for thirty percent off [TS]

00:37:50   your order [TS]

00:37:51   thanks a lot to tracker for sponsoring [TS]

00:37:53   our show never lose anything again so [TS]

00:37:58   macrumors has a really lovely buyers [TS]

00:38:01   guide where they go through the hardware [TS]

00:38:03   in all the different hardware lines [TS]

00:38:06   product lines and they say hey you [TS]

00:38:08   probably shouldn't get this right now [TS]

00:38:10   because they're probably gonna really [TS]

00:38:12   apples probably release a new one soon [TS]

00:38:14   and so you know coming up on the fall as [TS]

00:38:18   we are the iphone four examples labels [TS]

00:38:20   caution the ipad pro neutral yeah it's [TS]

00:38:23   probably okay we should clarify this is [TS]

00:38:25   based on actual like data from past [TS]

00:38:28   generations problem isn't that the [TS]

00:38:29   macrumors buying guide has been running [TS]

00:38:31   its you know how like you know in [TS]

00:38:33   whatever like that the biggest like [TS]

00:38:35   well-known oldest steak restaurant in [TS]

00:38:38   your town and people say that place is [TS]

00:38:39   an institution [TS]

00:38:40   the macrumors buying guide is an [TS]

00:38:43   institution in like the mac nerdery I'm [TS]

00:38:45   sorry alright noobs alright alright [TS]

00:38:49   grandma and yes that would like to [TS]

00:38:52   correct anything about mac in touch okay [TS]

00:38:54   now and so this is this is based on you [TS]

00:38:58   know just like they look at how often [TS]

00:39:00   these products are updated and so they [TS]

00:39:02   know okay well then the macbook pro se [TS]

00:39:04   is updated on average every you know 400 [TS]

00:39:07   days or whatever it is like they they [TS]

00:39:09   look back in history into and they know [TS]

00:39:10   for every product line [TS]

00:39:11   what is the average interval between [TS]

00:39:12   updates and that's that's how they can [TS]

00:39:14   tell you with an you know reasonable [TS]

00:39:16   degree of approximate so you know the [TS]

00:39:18   approximate sure to you that like okay [TS]

00:39:20   well did you know the Mac the Mac Mini [TS]

00:39:23   is usually updated every what's it like [TS]

00:39:25   800 takes or whatever I don't know what [TS]

00:39:28   the average for the mac mini and and [TS]

00:39:30   it's been seven hundred days since the [TS]

00:39:31   last one so you probably shouldn't buy [TS]

00:39:33   one now it's that kind of thing [TS]

00:39:34   yep the average for the mac mini 438 [TS]

00:39:36   days we are currently running at 643 [TS]

00:39:39   haha yeah that's lower than i would've [TS]

00:39:42   guessed honestly also this this wet this [TS]

00:39:44   web site this web page by the way which [TS]

00:39:45   I encourage everyone to go to only put [TS]

00:39:47   it in the notes must be the most [TS]

00:39:51   infuriating webpage like Apple [TS]

00:39:53   executives and probably still shoulder [TS]

00:39:54   and particularly like because the at the [TS]

00:39:57   top of this page [TS]

00:39:58   especially when you hit like the maktab [TS]

00:40:00   which will give you the link to it shows [TS]

00:40:01   the picture all apples current mac [TS]

00:40:03   products the name of them and underneath [TS]

00:40:05   it like you said they have these things [TS]

00:40:06   like oh you should buy neutral don't buy [TS]

00:40:08   and the mac thing that shows their [TS]

00:40:10   products right next to the red button [TS]

00:40:12   say don't buy don't buy don't buy this [TS]

00:40:14   is exactly the opposite message that [TS]

00:40:16   wants anywhere that all its products are [TS]

00:40:19   raid in a big line with the red things [TS]

00:40:21   that say don't buy can you imagine a [TS]

00:40:23   more sort of like this really upsetting [TS]

00:40:26   webpage to people whose job it is to [TS]

00:40:28   sell macs and I guess you got the green [TS]

00:40:30   one on the macbook this has by now but [TS]

00:40:31   it's just it's such a weird thing to see [TS]

00:40:33   apples product photography next week [TS]

00:40:36   huge red buttons don't buy it's harsh [TS]

00:40:40   but harsh but fair [TS]

00:40:42   it's a good time for the backbone so [TS]

00:40:43   there's that [TS]

00:40:45   yeah this is really sad so everything [TS]

00:40:48   they everything except the macbook one [TS]

00:40:49   the air the pro the macbook pro the [TS]

00:40:52   retina MacBook [TS]

00:40:53   pro kinda forgot there's a distinction [TS]

00:40:54   there the imac the mac mini the mac pro [TS]

00:40:57   huh thats 945 days since the last [TS]

00:41:02   release December 2013 how you guys were [TS]

00:41:04   so excited [TS]

00:41:05   remember those days anyway all of this [TS]

00:41:07   is don't buy and its getting it [TS]

00:41:10   I know it's getting a little bit [TS]

00:41:12   ridiculous right on the one side it [TS]

00:41:15   why does one need a brand-new computer [TS]

00:41:18   like let's suppose that the CPU was [TS]

00:41:20   modern which it's not really these days [TS]

00:41:24   but I mean the industrial design it's [TS]

00:41:26   this unibody setup has been around for a [TS]

00:41:29   few years like Stephen Hackett some [TS]

00:41:30   video review of the kind of history of [TS]

00:41:34   modern apple laptops goes through this [TS]

00:41:37   and you know they don't look that [TS]

00:41:38   different than they have ever used to do [TS]

00:41:39   they know upgraded the internals made a [TS]

00:41:42   little thinner you know improved battery [TS]

00:41:44   life actually wouldn't wouldn't be nice [TS]

00:41:45   to get that on the iOS side but you know [TS]

00:41:48   what do you really need from a brand-new [TS]

00:41:50   computer like if it wasn't for the fact [TS]

00:41:52   these chips are all getting a little bit [TS]

00:41:53   long in the tooth [TS]

00:41:54   I don't think this would be that [TS]

00:41:55   egregious I'm not looking for a brand [TS]

00:41:57   new form factor in in my work macbook [TS]

00:42:00   pro now remind me that when they do [TS]

00:42:02   something amazing and I must have it but [TS]

00:42:04   only two months exactly but but I tell [TS]

00:42:07   you what man this this is sad times and [TS]

00:42:09   it's just it's gotten to the point i [TS]

00:42:12   mean looking at these numbers 281 days [TS]

00:42:15   for her and 28 days for 99 days 643 days [TS]

00:42:18   945 days with you were measuring years [TS]

00:42:20   it's unreal like what are they doing how [TS]

00:42:25   is this okay you know to some degree [TS]

00:42:28   this isn't just like Santa Claus like [TS]

00:42:30   you know Santa Apple we we just deserve [TS]

00:42:32   new things because it's time there has [TS]

00:42:34   to be something that they update the [TS]

00:42:36   internals to like you know that and so [TS]

00:42:39   you have to again look at the supply [TS]

00:42:40   chain look at Intel especially because [TS]

00:42:41   that's that's where a lot of this is [TS]

00:42:42   based you say alright well is there [TS]

00:42:45   something else that they could be [TS]

00:42:47   updating to that they're just not like [TS]

00:42:49   apple doesn't just arbitrarily decide [TS]

00:42:52   you know what next month we're going to [TS]

00:42:54   give them a macbook pro update you know [TS]

00:42:56   like it's based on the schedules of the [TS]

00:42:58   components that go into it and what they [TS]

00:42:59   what they could update the components to [TS]

00:43:02   in recent years intel has had a lot of [TS]

00:43:05   problems and delays [TS]

00:43:06   getting there getting a new stuff out [TS]

00:43:08   and so much this is based on that and we [TS]

00:43:10   talked about this before so I'm gonna [TS]

00:43:11   try to repeat too much ground here so a [TS]

00:43:13   lot of these things are just the news [TS]

00:43:15   until chips are what's holding this up [TS]

00:43:17   and they aren't available yet or not [TS]

00:43:19   available in quantity yet or the ones [TS]

00:43:21   that apple would use aren't available [TS]

00:43:22   even though the rest of the family might [TS]

00:43:23   be and that's the case with a lot of [TS]

00:43:25   these the products that tend to sell in [TS]

00:43:28   very high volumes the new macbook the [TS]

00:43:30   retina macbook pro and the imac tend to [TS]

00:43:33   be kept up-to-date fairly responsibly if [TS]

00:43:36   intel has released a new generation of [TS]

00:43:39   cpus that is the the appropriate size [TS]

00:43:42   and cost and and heat and power needs [TS]

00:43:45   for the certain lines Apple tends to [TS]

00:43:48   update to the men a reasonable amount of [TS]

00:43:49   time so you know if you're buying like [TS]

00:43:52   an imac I mean the imac has not been [TS]

00:43:54   neglected developing a magazine has [TS]

00:43:55   really been very solidly updated i think [TS]

00:43:58   for a long time now it's like it's been [TS]

00:44:00   pretty competitive the macbook pro [TS]

00:44:02   usually has been we've had some problems [TS]

00:44:04   recently but usually has been and again [TS]

00:44:06   those problems are often tells fault [TS]

00:44:08   where it really becomes a problem is [TS]

00:44:11   when Apple gets neglectful of of the [TS]

00:44:14   lines there are more specialized that [TS]

00:44:16   that presumably don't sound very high [TS]

00:44:18   volumes and that's things like the mac [TS]

00:44:20   mini and the mac pro and it also becomes [TS]

00:44:22   a problem on the lines that Apple is [TS]

00:44:24   kind of slowly phasing out because [TS]

00:44:26   they've made better lines that includes [TS]

00:44:28   things like the macbook air and the non [TS]

00:44:30   retina macbook pro in these kind of [TS]

00:44:32   areas apple doesn't use every generation [TS]

00:44:35   of new stuff that becomes available from [TS]

00:44:37   Intel this is what I think frustrates a [TS]

00:44:39   lot of people his Liz you know in the [TS]

00:44:41   case of the mac pro which is one of the [TS]

00:44:43   more egregious degrees examples of this [TS]

00:44:45   news eons that are appropriate for use [TS]

00:44:47   in the mac pro only come out about every [TS]

00:44:49   18 months [TS]

00:44:50   the problem comes that if Apple decides [TS]

00:44:53   to skip a generation of those if a new [TS]

00:44:55   generation of Zeon's comes out an apple [TS]

00:44:57   aside for whatever reason you know that [TS]

00:44:59   it's not worth updating the mac pro to [TS]

00:45:02   disney generation [TS]

00:45:03   not only is it probably already been [TS]

00:45:04   like 18 months since the last update but [TS]

00:45:06   now they're they're signed themselves up [TS]

00:45:08   for another 18 months with no update [TS]

00:45:10   basically and it could be longer if [TS]

00:45:12   there's any delay until side which again [TS]

00:45:13   has been happening with increasing [TS]

00:45:15   frequency in recent years when they [TS]

00:45:17   choose to just say you know it's not [TS]

00:45:18   worth up to this [TS]

00:45:20   that is really a position of of hubris [TS]

00:45:22   and and of arrogance and neglect of [TS]

00:45:24   these products and that is what [TS]

00:45:26   irritates me about it you know if intel [TS]

00:45:28   has a problem and it holds up the [TS]

00:45:29   release of something that has the last [TS]

00:45:31   generation ships in it like the imac it [TS]

00:45:33   doesn't bother me as much because I know [TS]

00:45:35   it's not really apple's fault but when [TS]

00:45:36   it comes to things like the mac mini the [TS]

00:45:37   mac pro where Apple could be updating [TS]

00:45:40   these things they're there were chips [TS]

00:45:41   they could have used and they just skip [TS]

00:45:43   them because they just don't care that [TS]

00:45:46   is infuriating and it really shows a [TS]

00:45:48   level of disdain for your customers [TS]

00:45:50   it takes a certain degree of [TS]

00:45:52   shamelessness and of arrogance and [TS]

00:45:55   hubris to be still selling the same mac [TS]

00:45:58   pro today if you walk into the apple [TS]

00:46:00   store he can still buy the same mac pro [TS]

00:46:02   today that you could order in December [TS]

00:46:03   of 2013 [TS]

00:46:05   the price is exactly the same the [TS]

00:46:07   configurations are exactly the same [TS]

00:46:08   there have been no new options for this [TS]

00:46:10   this computer that you said we're you [TS]

00:46:12   know we're betting the future on high [TS]

00:46:14   GPU power and then we're not going to [TS]

00:46:17   update the GPUs for three years or make [TS]

00:46:20   them upgradeable aftermarket you finally [TS]

00:46:22   got to my pet issues and all there's no [TS]

00:46:24   new cpus who cares about the cpu there [TS]

00:46:26   are new GPU is every single year there [TS]

00:46:28   are new GPU so if you make you're like [TS]

00:46:30   well we would update but there's no new [TS]

00:46:32   Intel CPUs first of all you can upgrade [TS]

00:46:34   to a higher clock speed 00 CPU designs [TS]

00:46:37   maybe it's easier to get the guns that [TS]

00:46:38   have been for our class being second of [TS]

00:46:39   all every year you almost every year you [TS]

00:46:42   can upgrade gpus but that doesn't even [TS]

00:46:43   count like it's not even a consideration [TS]

00:46:45   and I'd like you're right it's the most [TS]

00:46:46   absurd on the GPU festooned mac pro [TS]

00:46:50   machine right now i think it's also [TS]

00:46:51   absurd on just every other line of [TS]

00:46:54   computers like even if there is [TS]

00:46:55   absolutely no new cpu either lower the [TS]

00:46:58   price for putting a GPU and it or update [TS]

00:47:00   the chipset trim you know in the olden [TS]

00:47:02   days USB two three or 330 point 14 like [TS]

00:47:05   there are things that you can do I mean [TS]

00:47:07   if you want to see the things that you [TS]

00:47:08   do who what can you do it updated [TS]

00:47:09   computer that offer just look at every [TS]

00:47:11   single pc manufacturer they always find [TS]

00:47:13   some way to bump the specs little by [TS]

00:47:15   little I'm not saying Apple should do it [TS]

00:47:16   like what del does [TS]

00:47:18   but the idea that there's nothing you [TS]

00:47:19   can improve the hardware evangelism [TS]

00:47:21   released a brand new CPU design either a [TS]

00:47:23   shrink or a new architecture i don't i [TS]

00:47:25   don't even buy that but I'm willing to [TS]

00:47:26   say I'm willing to accept that Kayden's [TS]

00:47:28   if the cpu cadence is reasonable but [TS]

00:47:31   wants to see you can start going on 18 [TS]

00:47:32   months like i said but then [TS]

00:47:33   pro don't not only should you not skip [TS]

00:47:35   generations you shouldn't even wait for [TS]

00:47:37   the next generation to give it pumps [TS]

00:47:38   exactly and you know especially for [TS]

00:47:40   again like for a machine we're going to [TS]

00:47:42   say this is all about GPU power and [TS]

00:47:44   you're going to design it to always have [TS]

00:47:46   two gpus you aren't even going to allow [TS]

00:47:47   people to buy one GPU and you're gonna [TS]

00:47:49   put in these kind of like half covered [TS]

00:47:51   asterisks workstation class GPUs on them [TS]

00:47:53   you know that and then to not get the [TS]

00:47:55   GPUs for three years and still be [TS]

00:47:57   supporting the same price and not like [TS]

00:48:00   them upgradeable like if you're really [TS]

00:48:02   going to say the mac pro is all about [TS]

00:48:05   GPU power they have to be upgradeable [TS]

00:48:08   aftermarket period and if for some [TS]

00:48:11   reason you really insist on making them [TS]

00:48:14   not upgradeable you have to be updating [TS]

00:48:16   them on a regular basis every night at [TS]

00:48:18   12 months like there has to be a GPU [TS]

00:48:20   because that's what competitive energy [TS]

00:48:21   in the GPU world and for that not to be [TS]

00:48:24   happening in the mac pro you know Phil [TS]

00:48:26   Schiller start there and told us about [TS]

00:48:27   his ass innovation and innovate anymore [TS]

00:48:30   my ass now there's been nothing it's [TS]

00:48:32   embarrassing and it really again like I [TS]

00:48:35   can't understate like how much this it [TS]

00:48:37   looks like Apple just giving the middle [TS]

00:48:39   finger to its customers on this on these [TS]

00:48:41   things if your mac pro buyer if you're a [TS]

00:48:43   mac mini buyer if your macbook air buyer [TS]

00:48:45   apple is giving us the giant finger on [TS]

00:48:48   these things for the last few years and [TS]

00:48:50   the mac mini is I mean as i mentioned [TS]

00:48:52   last bit like the mac mini is also [TS]

00:48:54   especially bad because the previous [TS]

00:48:57   update which itself was very late in [TS]

00:48:59   many ways made the product worse so like [TS]

00:49:02   if you actually measure by days since [TS]

00:49:03   the mac mini has gotten universally [TS]

00:49:05   better its much locker number but you [TS]

00:49:10   know it really is a problem here and and [TS]

00:49:12   John I think you're right they have to [TS]

00:49:13   find ways that they can update the [TS]

00:49:16   computers without waiting for Intel if [TS]

00:49:18   they're going to be skipping generations [TS]

00:49:19   and honestly they have to just stop [TS]

00:49:22   skipping generations because you know [TS]

00:49:24   the mac mini you know [TS]

00:49:25   yeah it's a low and computer for them [TS]

00:49:27   but it isn't alone computer for the [TS]

00:49:29   people who buy it it's like a thousand [TS]

00:49:31   dollars at least 44 well-configured one [TS]

00:49:33   generally for buying the mac mini unless [TS]

00:49:35   you have some kind of like special you [TS]

00:49:37   know rule for like buying it to be a [TS]

00:49:39   server or something else but if you're [TS]

00:49:41   buying it to be your mac that is a low [TS]

00:49:43   and Mac you're probably buying it [TS]

00:49:44   because you can't because you need that [TS]

00:49:46   value you know that the money [TS]

00:49:47   matters a lot to you and your kind of [TS]

00:49:49   stretching to buy it to have the [TS]

00:49:50   customer experience of wanting to get [TS]

00:49:54   into a mac and just barely being able to [TS]

00:49:55   afford one and choose and having to [TS]

00:49:57   choose a magnet near one of the many for [TS]

00:49:58   your needs and then to have this this [TS]

00:50:00   like neglected insulting machine be the [TS]

00:50:04   one that apple will sell you that is not [TS]

00:50:06   a way to get more people to buy max that [TS]

00:50:08   is not a way to get people to be happy [TS]

00:50:09   but by Mac that's going to hurt customer [TS]

00:50:11   set Tim's wonderful customer set [TS]

00:50:13   it's just it's an it's a position of [TS]

00:50:14   arrogance that plays into all the [TS]

00:50:16   negative stereotypes about Apple the [TS]

00:50:18   people have had since the nineties that [TS]

00:50:20   we keep trying to convince the world as [TS]

00:50:23   mac owners no it's not like that these [TS]

00:50:25   really are great computers the great [TS]

00:50:26   values and overpriced apples are helping [TS]

00:50:28   us at all here because they're showing [TS]

00:50:30   this incredible neglect and some of [TS]

00:50:33   these ancient computers that they could [TS]

00:50:35   have updated like I'm not talking about [TS]

00:50:37   the ones where the way to an intel talk [TS]

00:50:39   about the ones that they skip [TS]

00:50:40   generations forever [TS]

00:50:41   they just they have to stop skipping the [TS]

00:50:43   generations for every product line [TS]

00:50:45   because you know what if it isn't worth [TS]

00:50:46   updating the mac pro for a xeon [TS]

00:50:50   generation that comes out every 18 [TS]

00:50:51   months [TS]

00:50:52   this is like a 3000 + dollar computer if [TS]

00:50:56   it isn't worth updating that the [TS]

00:50:57   discontinued thing you know it don't [TS]

00:50:59   don't even don't sell computers that you [TS]

00:51:02   that you are not willing to maintain to [TS]

00:51:04   a basic level of maintenance here that [TS]

00:51:06   is just insulting and by the way one [TS]

00:51:08   more quick thing before I forget [TS]

00:51:09   right now there's a whole bunch of very [TS]

00:51:13   high-end buyers that are building [TS]

00:51:15   high-end computers with lots of GPU [TS]

00:51:18   power because they want to use vr when [TS]

00:51:21   was the last time that people really [TS]

00:51:24   wanted to buy in large numbers very [TS]

00:51:26   high-end desktop computers lots of GPU [TS]

00:51:29   power [TS]

00:51:29   I mean yes there's always been pc gamers [TS]

00:51:31   but that's always been a pretty you know [TS]

00:51:33   pretty narrow market relative to the [TS]

00:51:34   entire you know pc market as a whole [TS]

00:51:36   right now there is a surge of people who [TS]

00:51:40   want to buy high-end desktop class [TS]

00:51:42   hardware and big GPUs and apple is [TS]

00:51:45   completely missing out on this some of [TS]

00:51:48   those people might have bought mac pro [TS]

00:51:49   so they're competitive but they're not [TS]

00:51:51   apples totally missing out on this wave [TS]

00:51:53   people buying high and stuff and yeah [TS]

00:51:55   their numbers might not be very big but [TS]

00:51:56   they're very very profitable this market [TS]

00:51:58   is extremely profitable [TS]

00:51:59   an apple just completely blowing it they [TS]

00:52:02   have blown this opportunity that only [TS]

00:52:04   comes around maybe every 10 years or [TS]

00:52:05   there's a lot of people who actually [TS]

00:52:06   need high-end hardware you know for [TS]

00:52:09   years we keep saying like oh well you [TS]

00:52:11   know I i can get away just fine with [TS]

00:52:12   with my four-year-old you know 13-inch [TS]

00:52:14   macbook pro because most people most [TS]

00:52:16   needs on your computer pretty basic [TS]

00:52:18   these days with me with modern hardware [TS]

00:52:20   vr need every bit of power can get and [TS]

00:52:23   again these opportunities don't come [TS]

00:52:24   very often in the market where people [TS]

00:52:26   actually need high-end hardware and are [TS]

00:52:29   willing to buy it and in in substantial [TS]

00:52:31   numbers and apple just missed it because [TS]

00:52:34   they just don't care and that's really [TS]

00:52:35   unfortunate and it pains me as a fan of [TS]

00:52:38   this company as a fan of high-end [TS]

00:52:40   hardware it really pains me to see the [TS]

00:52:42   level of neglect and arrogance hear that [TS]

00:52:45   Apple has shown its pro customers and [TS]

00:52:48   all its customers honestly so let's [TS]

00:52:52   assume for a second i know you've talked [TS]

00:52:53   a lot about how a lot of these are not [TS]

00:52:57   Intel's faults and i agree with you [TS]

00:52:59   there but let's assume for a second that [TS]

00:53:01   some of these are well don't you think [TS]

00:53:04   it will let me change that how i phrase [TS]

00:53:07   that isn't there a way that Apple could [TS]

00:53:09   kind of hint subversively could kind of [TS]

00:53:12   you do one of their people familiar with [TS]

00:53:14   the matter told the Wall Street Journal [TS]

00:53:16   that this is all Intel's fault like why [TS]

00:53:18   has a wise an apple someway somehow [TS]

00:53:20   blame didn't tell for this even quietly [TS]

00:53:24   if that makes any sense [TS]

00:53:25   that's not something that Apple does [TS]

00:53:26   it's not an apple move in general like [TS]

00:53:29   they have problems with suppliers which [TS]

00:53:30   they have all the time they find [TS]

00:53:31   alternate suppliers but they don't think [TS]

00:53:33   I'm gonna throw this applies under the [TS]

00:53:34   bus they don't even want to know the [TS]

00:53:35   supplies existing yes we all know Intel [TS]

00:53:37   exist but I if it was Steve Jobs maybe [TS]

00:53:40   and especially if they had a new [TS]

00:53:42   supplier lined up like as soon as in [TS]

00:53:44   they switched Intel then it was all [TS]

00:53:45   about throw powerpc IBM under the bus [TS]

00:53:48   but right up until that point it was [TS]

00:53:51   like IBM g5 everything is great and [TS]

00:53:54   you know they're gonna have it in three [TS]

00:53:56   guards and and 12 months or whatever [TS]

00:53:58   that promise was that he made on stage [TS]

00:54:00   never happened [TS]

00:54:01   I don't know I really don't think it's [TS]

00:54:02   that an apple style move to to shift the [TS]

00:54:05   blame apple accepts responsibility of [TS]

00:54:07   like they're they're the ones that [TS]

00:54:08   control their product lines they're not [TS]

00:54:09   going to blame the manufacturer even [TS]

00:54:12   like member whatever that courts plants [TS]

00:54:13   was that was supposed to make them [TS]

00:54:14   courts things for some reason and that [TS]

00:54:16   whole thing imploded and went bankrupt [TS]

00:54:18   or whatever [TS]

00:54:19   sfr your sapphire whatever they dig it's [TS]

00:54:22   that happened and we know about it [TS]

00:54:24   because it was public news but it's not [TS]

00:54:25   as if Apple is putting out print this is [TS]

00:54:28   not an apple move to put out a press [TS]

00:54:29   release that blames other companies for [TS]

00:54:32   apples failure to deliver its products [TS]

00:54:33   the closest you'll get is you know [TS]

00:54:36   thoughts on flash where it's like well [TS]

00:54:38   we ship products like this isn't [TS]

00:54:40   stopping us from shipping product or [TS]

00:54:42   changing our products we think this [TS]

00:54:43   technology is crappy for everybody we [TS]

00:54:45   got the closest I've seen in the modern [TS]

00:54:48   you know Apple era but i also like you [TS]

00:54:50   know Apple is not going to want to admit [TS]

00:54:53   any kind of public way even if it's [TS]

00:54:55   through unofficial channels like that [TS]

00:54:56   they're not going to even suggest the [TS]

00:54:59   possibility that the mac line is old and [TS]

00:55:02   stale and it's a problem yeah there's no [TS]

00:55:04   they don't have those status bars on [TS]

00:55:05   their website that has and like that's [TS]

00:55:08   the word like we know like it's a smart [TS]

00:55:10   move it's an apple move to not drop the [TS]

00:55:12   price your products because all about [TS]

00:55:13   perceived value [TS]

00:55:15   ah not dragging the prospects for the [TS]

00:55:17   whole year [TS]

00:55:18   that's what separates you know apple [TS]

00:55:19   from dell I dealt with that they're [TS]

00:55:21   making the same thing and there are [TS]

00:55:22   costs of good savings they will lower [TS]

00:55:23   the price to get more enterprise sales [TS]

00:55:25   and whatever blood Apple walk right not [TS]

00:55:28   dropping the price for free year three [TS]

00:55:29   years like who are you kidding now like [TS]

00:55:31   that's that stops being we're preserving [TS]

00:55:34   value that starts being just like Marco [TS]

00:55:36   said punitive to your customers and [TS]

00:55:38   you're not fooling anybody [TS]

00:55:39   no one who knows anything thanks that [TS]

00:55:41   2013 mac pro that they're still selling [TS]

00:55:43   for the same price is worth anything [TS]

00:55:45   close that price it is ridiculous i'm [TS]

00:55:49   very curious to see what happens this [TS]

00:55:50   fall because all signs are pointing to [TS]

00:55:52   this fall being when they that when they [TS]

00:55:54   right these wrongs I came out and I [TS]

00:55:57   can't imagine the complete meltdown that [TS]

00:56:01   all of us are going to have I would say [TS]

00:56:03   the pundits but i think we will all melt [TS]

00:56:05   down the three of us well if there's eat [TS]

00:56:08   are nothing new or extremely [TS]

00:56:10   underwhelming things as this fall on the [TS]

00:56:13   flip side is all forgiven if something [TS]

00:56:16   at least moderately exciting happens [TS]

00:56:18   this fall [TS]

00:56:19   I mean we all have very very short [TS]

00:56:21   memories and even shorter attention [TS]

00:56:22   spans [TS]

00:56:23   if they do this fancy function row oled [TS]

00:56:28   screen thing that was talked about a [TS]

00:56:30   couple of months back [TS]

00:56:31   you know there were something else [TS]

00:56:32   that's new and fancy or are they [TS]

00:56:34   forgiving is that it we're done we're [TS]

00:56:36   good here [TS]

00:56:37   yeah it depends on the product line that [TS]

00:56:39   that they do it too and whether that's [TS]

00:56:40   the one you've been waiting for is a [TS]

00:56:42   customer or not you know like it by by [TS]

00:56:44   making a major upgrade to the macbook [TS]

00:56:46   pro that's that's good they should be [TS]

00:56:48   doing at the macbook pro is is probably [TS]

00:56:50   there is one of the most commonly [TS]

00:56:52   selling models [TS]

00:56:53   certainly it's probably the [TS]

00:56:54   highest-profile model or the most common [TS]

00:56:57   model among high-profile buyers you know [TS]

00:56:59   the macbook pro is a very important part [TS]

00:57:01   that's great and they should be on that [TS]

00:57:03   he really should but if you're one of [TS]

00:57:06   the people who've been sitting around [TS]

00:57:07   waiting for mac pro or Mac Mini or [TS]

00:57:08   macbook air update then that's not gonna [TS]

00:57:11   be very satisfying to you because it's [TS]

00:57:13   like well okay that that's nice I you [TS]

00:57:14   know I macbook air maybe not as much [TS]

00:57:16   because the new one is probably closer [TS]

00:57:18   to it in size and weight but if your [TS]

00:57:20   desktop users that are waiting for Mac [TS]

00:57:21   Miller Mac Pro whether they update the [TS]

00:57:24   macbook pro riders is not incredibly [TS]

00:57:25   relevant to you and and how happy you [TS]

00:57:27   are with the lineup and by the way i [TS]

00:57:29   would expect neither mac mini nor mac [TS]

00:57:32   pro this fall mac mini simply because [TS]

00:57:34   they don't care they hate their [TS]

00:57:35   customers macro because it's falling [TS]

00:57:38   inconveniently between Broadwell even [TS]

00:57:40   skyline key I think they've waited this [TS]

00:57:41   long they're probably go straight to [TS]

00:57:42   skylight which is not a bad plan it you [TS]

00:57:45   know if there's not a macro out now like [TS]

00:57:48   it with broad well II then you might as [TS]

00:57:50   well wait for Scott lucky that's a major [TS]

00:57:51   upgrade and you already missed the broad [TS]

00:57:53   well wave and you know what what they [TS]

00:57:56   should be doing is releasing every [TS]

00:57:57   generation but if if you're gonna see if [TS]

00:58:00   you find yourself in in you know late [TS]

00:58:02   2016 and you still haven't made a macpro [TS]

00:58:04   update don't make one now with Broadwell [TS]

00:58:06   make one with sky like I i wouldn't give [TS]

00:58:08   that is what I can't talk about the case [TS]

00:58:09   you're saying like it's all forgiven i [TS]

00:58:11   think it's more about regaining trust [TS]

00:58:12   and what would what make you know what [TS]

00:58:15   would bring some trust back is not just [TS]

00:58:17   saying hey we finally updated the [TS]

00:58:18   macbooks because you know there [TS]

00:58:19   right yeah it's gonna be good and people [TS]

00:58:21   are going to buy a lot of them and may [TS]

00:58:22   you know I was gonna be happy you know [TS]

00:58:24   they're gonna do that but that doesn't [TS]

00:58:25   regain any trust because what you're [TS]

00:58:28   looking for is a new pattern of behavior [TS]

00:58:31   not merely oh we didn't update these [TS]

00:58:32   computers for a long time and everyone [TS]

00:58:34   was sad but hey here's new update [TS]

00:58:35   everything is great [TS]

00:58:36   like what you want to see is a new [TS]

00:58:38   update followed by another new timely [TS]

00:58:40   update may be followed by another one [TS]

00:58:42   and then you would have your faith [TS]

00:58:43   restored and to restore faith in [TS]

00:58:45   something of a macpro situation I think [TS]

00:58:46   what you have to do is at the very least [TS]

00:58:49   put out a new mac pro with the same cpus [TS]

00:58:51   but better gpus or put out a Broadway [TS]

00:58:54   mac pro that you already spent time [TS]

00:58:55   developing internally even though you [TS]

00:58:57   know you're going to replace it with a [TS]

00:58:58   skylight and also in the broad well you [TS]

00:59:00   won't have new gpus like and it's like [TS]

00:59:02   well well that's such a big change you [TS]

00:59:04   can regain that trust as quickly as [TS]

00:59:05   possible by saying Broadwell macbook [TS]

00:59:07   barbell mac pro with new gpus sky like [TS]

00:59:10   mac pro with new gpus those two releases [TS]

00:59:12   would be like oh hey I get that both [TS]

00:59:14   updating this computer again and now [TS]

00:59:15   it's safe to buy and it's no longer [TS]

00:59:16   embarrassing and that's such a turn from [TS]

00:59:19   their current thing of like skip a [TS]

00:59:21   generation [TS]

00:59:22   maybe skip one mortgage that by this [TS]

00:59:23   point the new ones are going to come out [TS]

00:59:25   it's like you can always say it's like [TS]

00:59:26   we've waited so long to get the was [TS]

00:59:28   gonna come out to like well this the sky [TS]

00:59:30   like once we're not really ready to do [TS]

00:59:31   that now its work on those and you're [TS]

00:59:33   working on the sky like was like well [TS]

00:59:35   maybe wait another year for Thunderbolt [TS]

00:59:36   for to come out he would always wait [TS]

00:59:38   happened release new versions of the [TS]

00:59:40   product and the way to regain trust is [TS]

00:59:43   to show a new pattern of behavior and [TS]

00:59:46   one data point does not make a line you [TS]

00:59:48   need to have multiple data points say [TS]

00:59:49   not only have they revised computer [TS]

00:59:52   again but because if you were to tell [TS]

00:59:53   them new macros are going to come out [TS]

00:59:55   the beginning of next year and there [TS]

00:59:56   won't be another new mac pro for three [TS]

00:59:58   years would you invest in this life [TS]

00:59:58   years would you invest in this life [TS]

01:00:00   if computers it is like well I don't [TS]

01:00:03   want that cadence I don't like that even [TS]

01:00:05   if i buy all my computers now like if i [TS]

01:00:08   get a new employee in a year [TS]

01:00:09   don't have to buy them a year old Mac [TS]

01:00:10   Pro if i get an employee in two years [TS]

01:00:12   that have to buy them a two year old Mac [TS]

01:00:13   Pro like the three-year Cannes is not [TS]

01:00:15   acceptable so they have to establish new [TS]

01:00:17   pattern of behavior and the way to most [TS]

01:00:19   quickly establishing pattern behaviour [TS]

01:00:21   rapid-fire releases and for the mac pro [TS]

01:00:22   it's right in front of them new GPU is [TS]

01:00:24   Broadwell the sky like energy use and [TS]

01:00:27   all those things you could do three new [TS]

01:00:29   revisions of the mac pro between now and [TS]

01:00:30   the sky like one and that will go a long [TS]

01:00:32   way to show I mean that's kind of [TS]

01:00:33   ridiculous but that was a long way [TS]

01:00:35   although delwood to it to showing that [TS]

01:00:37   you are dedicated to this product line [TS]

01:00:39   again and for the other ones because [TS]

01:00:42   they are kind of like an annual cycle [TS]

01:00:43   like the mac mini has never had the [TS]

01:00:45   trust so you're not losing the trust [TS]

01:00:46   their other than the crappy revision [TS]

01:00:48   that took away the course right but it [TS]

01:00:50   was never really there but for the [TS]

01:00:51   macbooks and stuffs like really but that [TS]

01:00:53   your your laptop's those are your most [TS]

01:00:55   portable max and even those are getting [TS]

01:00:57   long in the tooth this it's not a not a [TS]

01:00:59   good looks like it's I wish they'd shown [TS]

01:01:01   that page not just the gaps and [TS]

01:01:03   everything but like a graphs where you [TS]

01:01:04   could see that they were kind of in a [TS]

01:01:06   steady kind of pattern then here's this [TS]

01:01:08   new aberration from the pattern and you [TS]

01:01:10   have to restore that pattern to restore [TS]

01:01:12   the faith in the product line if you [TS]

01:01:15   scroll down to each of the individual [TS]

01:01:17   like details [TS]

01:01:18   it shows recent releases and there's [TS]

01:01:20   individual like bar charts for each [TS]

01:01:22   release so you can get you can get a [TS]

01:01:25   sort of hint as to what what's the [TS]

01:01:29   normal is so you can see for the imac [TS]

01:01:31   for example the may 2011 update was 577 [TS]

01:01:36   days since the prior one but every other [TS]

01:01:39   one looks like it was about 200 to 300 [TS]

01:01:43   days you see what i mean so you can even [TS]

01:01:45   get a rough guess just by looking at [TS]

01:01:48   these graphs [TS]

01:01:49   yeah and a lot of these I mean it's kind [TS]

01:01:51   of sad how much seem to stop in 2012 [TS]

01:01:54   I I just this makes me so sad it [TS]

01:01:56   honestly like you know I know I know [TS]

01:01:59   it's kind of you know improper to talk [TS]

01:02:01   this simply and and broadly but it looks [TS]

01:02:04   like team coach doesn't like the mac [TS]

01:02:05   very much and I hope that's not it i [TS]

01:02:08   hope that's not the reason for all this [TS]

01:02:10   and I hope it's not true but that's how [TS]

01:02:12   it looks it looks like tim cook [TS]

01:02:13   care about the mac it doesn't have had [TS]

01:02:15   to do is work I know [TS]

01:02:17   yeah the ipad is the future of computing [TS]

01:02:18   like I I'm not as if that's what he's [TS]

01:02:21   making decisions based on our units [TS]

01:02:22   decisions that if if he was making [TS]

01:02:24   decisions based on us it would be purely [TS]

01:02:25   based on how much money they cost to [TS]

01:02:27   developer so much money to bring for the [TS]

01:02:28   company and how much potential future [TS]

01:02:29   revenue and blah blah blah i really [TS]

01:02:31   don't think he's making decisions based [TS]

01:02:32   on what computers he likes because that [TS]

01:02:33   doesn't seem like his role in the [TS]

01:02:34   company but bottom line numbers stuff [TS]

01:02:37   was his bag before he became CEO and i [TS]

01:02:40   would imagine that it you know any [TS]

01:02:43   moment he does have in this would be [TS]

01:02:44   related to that but I more more likely [TS]

01:02:48   these decisions are made down a level [TS]

01:02:50   below and he just gives it ok on it [TS]

01:02:52   yeah but it but it is it is kind of like [TS]

01:02:54   the Tim Cook way to just keep old stuff [TS]

01:02:57   around just keep selling it you know [TS]

01:03:00   because that still makes good enough [TS]

01:03:01   money and that that's how the whole Mac [TS]

01:03:03   lineup looks right now and again some of [TS]

01:03:05   these families that's Intel's fault but [TS]

01:03:08   a lot of them it's not it looks like [TS]

01:03:09   Apple has made the calculus to say you [TS]

01:03:11   know we don't really need to update the [TS]

01:03:13   mac very often they still sell anyway [TS]

01:03:15   and so we just won't just let it sit [TS]

01:03:18   there and he knows that's not true like [TS]

01:03:21   this last quarter of Maxwell's was [TS]

01:03:22   dismal and you know that was happening [TS]

01:03:23   before was happening like this is this [TS]

01:03:25   is a but it's not like any true he knows [TS]

01:03:28   it's not true [TS]

01:03:29   yeah i would like they know the numbers [TS]

01:03:30   to do before they announce that all [TS]

01:03:32   things they do projections they have [TS]

01:03:33   estimations they see they're not going [TS]

01:03:35   to get their numbers we find out in [TS]

01:03:36   their earnings calls when they know well [TS]

01:03:38   before that and that is the point where [TS]

01:03:40   maybe they have strategic planning your [TS]

01:03:42   replanting meetings and saying look [TS]

01:03:43   we're not gonna even come close to [TS]

01:03:44   hitting are expected numbers for max [TS]

01:03:46   it's gonna look bad [TS]

01:03:47   what we want to do and that's where they [TS]

01:03:48   say can this product line provides this [TS]

01:03:50   one move this project up at more funny [TS]

01:03:52   that i don't know i'm i'm fantasizing [TS]

01:03:53   about how things are done is that Apple [TS]

01:03:55   but like it it's the the idea that the [TS]

01:03:59   the anyone in the company thinks that [TS]

01:04:01   you can just make like these lines and [TS]

01:04:02   nothing will happen [TS]

01:04:03   we all know that's not true by now an [TS]

01:04:05   apple no way before we did do you think [TS]

01:04:07   the new 18 months ago and decided to [TS]

01:04:09   skip a generation of these various cpus [TS]

01:04:10   about the delayed time is so huge that [TS]

01:04:13   you like this unit it's a is a trailing [TS]

01:04:15   indicator of whether yeah [TS]

01:04:17   using the right i think where you find [TS]

01:04:19   out how long after the decisions that [TS]

01:04:20   led to it had been made and the new [TS]

01:04:22   decisions you make now aren't going to [TS]

01:04:23   manifest for a while so that's just the [TS]

01:04:26   nature of the beast here but yeah I mean [TS]

01:04:29   like this about regaining trust we know [TS]

01:04:33   that even if they made the decision year [TS]

01:04:35   ago [TS]

01:04:35   we're not going to see the results of [TS]

01:04:36   the decisions for a long time so we just [TS]

01:04:38   sit back and wait and you know show us [TS]

01:04:41   with your actions that you know which [TS]

01:04:42   product lines you care about which ones [TS]

01:04:44   are quote unquote safe to buy safe to [TS]

01:04:46   invest in for individual users less [TS]

01:04:49   important for individual users it's like [TS]

01:04:50   you just by soon as they're revives like [TS]

01:04:52   you wait a little bit to make sure [TS]

01:04:53   they're not lemons there's no systemic [TS]

01:04:55   problems with the with the things and [TS]

01:04:57   then you buy it and as far as an [TS]

01:04:58   individual is concerned you're fine as [TS]

01:05:00   long as when you decide to buy a new [TS]

01:05:03   computer that actually is a new one for [TS]

01:05:04   you to buy that is different than the [TS]

01:05:05   one you already bought but for [TS]

01:05:07   institutions are people to buy a lot of [TS]

01:05:09   them like something over the company [TS]

01:05:10   with a bunch of people doing like Maya [TS]

01:05:13   on their mac pros and they staff up for [TS]

01:05:16   a big project and they have an occasion [TS]

01:05:19   to buy new computers and they will be [TS]

01:05:21   sad if they're buying the same computers [TS]

01:05:23   they bought a year or two years or three [TS]

01:05:24   years ago for the same price [TS]

01:05:26   it just doesn't seem right [TS]

01:05:28   technologically speaking it's like oh [TS]

01:05:29   well you know it's been three years [TS]

01:05:32   since i bought my computer you new [TS]

01:05:34   employee will have such a fancy computer [TS]

01:05:35   will be great like we can't afford to [TS]

01:05:37   revise all our computers every year but [TS]

01:05:38   we bring new employees they get a new [TS]

01:05:40   and now you have the same as that [TS]

01:05:41   computer i did that's great [TS]

01:05:44   our final sponsor tonight is indochino a [TS]

01:05:46   new sponsor go to indochino dot-com use [TS]

01:05:48   promo code ATP for any premium suit [TS]

01:05:51   figures 399 + free shipping indochino [TS]

01:05:54   your look your window Gino makes [TS]

01:05:56   made-to-measure suits available to the [TS]

01:05:59   masses and affordable to the masses last [TS]

01:06:02   time i had to buy a suit i went to a big [TS]

01:06:05   chain suit store that you probably all [TS]

01:06:06   have heard of and I just went in and I [TS]

01:06:09   talked to some salesperson for a few [TS]

01:06:11   minutes and I walked out with a suit [TS]

01:06:14   there is no tailoring there is no [TS]

01:06:15   made-to-measure no custom making it like [TS]

01:06:17   that because i don't have that much [TS]

01:06:19   money I i only could dedicate a few [TS]

01:06:21   dollars to this at this point my life [TS]

01:06:23   and that's it I haven't really had made [TS]

01:06:25   since then you know I always assume [TS]

01:06:27   made-to-order suits are thing that [TS]

01:06:30   only fancy people get well indochino [TS]

01:06:32   cells made-to-order suits for less money [TS]

01:06:36   than what i paid at that at that big [TS]

01:06:38   retailer i think i paid something like [TS]

01:06:40   five or six hundred dollars for that [TS]

01:06:41   mediocre soon i got there [TS]

01:06:43   indochino cells you one-of-a-kind [TS]

01:06:45   made-to-measure suits customized with [TS]

01:06:47   details that you want your own lining [TS]

01:06:50   choice lapels you can get a personal [TS]

01:06:52   monogram and more 14 unique measurements [TS]

01:06:56   going to making this suit that fits you [TS]

01:06:58   perfectly it is the best suit you will [TS]

01:07:00   ever own made-to-measure specifically [TS]

01:07:02   for you it's so important to get suits [TS]

01:07:05   that fit you right because when they [TS]

01:07:06   don't fit you right they don't look good [TS]

01:07:08   you don't look good in them they look [TS]

01:07:09   all sloppy or bag in which areas are [TS]

01:07:11   tightened weird areas [TS]

01:07:12   it just doesn't look right when you look [TS]

01:07:14   good you know made-to-order suit you [TS]

01:07:16   feel more confident and you have this [TS]

01:07:18   great one-of-a-kind suit that fits you [TS]

01:07:19   perfectly hundred percent merino wool [TS]

01:07:22   for these suits and also have direct [TS]

01:07:24   shirts and accessories and a money-back [TS]

01:07:27   guarantee if you don't like it now on [TS]

01:07:28   the price that suit I bought the big [TS]

01:07:30   retailer was about five seconds hours go [TS]

01:07:32   to intercom use promo code ATP you can [TS]

01:07:35   get any premium suit for just 3 99 with [TS]

01:07:39   free shipping so it's even cheaper than [TS]

01:07:41   what i paid the big-box door for a worse [TS]

01:07:43   suit goto.com use permit ATP for a [TS]

01:07:47   custom suit for 329 with free shipping [TS]

01:07:50   indochino your look your way [TS]

01:07:56   I have a question specifically for Marco [TS]

01:07:59   you had written probably like a year ago [TS]

01:08:02   a tool that will take several audio [TS]

01:08:06   files say from your co-host and your own [TS]

01:08:09   and stitch them together and laura [TS]

01:08:11   dotson together but line them up so [TS]

01:08:13   we're not on different parts of the [TS]

01:08:14   episode at the same moment right so [TS]

01:08:17   you're synched up thinking of time wise [TS]

01:08:19   i was thinking about this week or two [TS]

01:08:21   ago how the hell are you doing that [TS]

01:08:23   because we don't all hit the record [TS]

01:08:26   button at the same moment and I was try [TS]

01:08:30   was debating with myself okay well how's [TS]

01:08:32   he doing it is he just looking for it [TS]

01:08:35   and it's all you know algorithmic it and [TS]

01:08:36   so is he just looking for like some peak [TS]

01:08:38   in one and then trying to find the same [TS]

01:08:40   peak in the other and I wasn't sure how [TS]

01:08:43   this worked and so what is this tool and [TS]

01:08:45   how the hell did you do it before Marco [TS]

01:08:48   explains we should all say that we don't [TS]

01:08:49   do that embarrassing clap thing with [TS]

01:08:50   some other podcasters naming any names [TS]

01:08:54   here met yet so it it for what it's [TS]

01:08:57   worth a lot of shows when you're on the [TS]

01:08:59   show will count down and say okay we're [TS]

01:09:02   all gonna clap 123 and then everyone [TS]

01:09:03   claps and that's their peak that the [TS]

01:09:05   editor uses to line up the the two or [TS]

01:09:08   more sides which is bogus because of [TS]

01:09:10   audio driftwood market will explain soon [TS]

01:09:11   yeah so I just I was really curious [TS]

01:09:14   because this is a fascinating technical [TS]

01:09:16   problem and yeah it's a little inside [TS]

01:09:17   baseball but it's a fascinating [TS]

01:09:19   technical problem to solve regardless of [TS]

01:09:21   the fact that happens too late to [TS]

01:09:22   podcasting so how to solve it i should [TS]

01:09:24   clarify before i start here that I [TS]

01:09:27   didn't do any research of course I [TS]

01:09:32   didn't do any research beforehand on [TS]

01:09:33   like how this problem should be solved [TS]

01:09:36   how other things on this problem there [TS]

01:09:38   are very few audio tools that do solve [TS]

01:09:41   this problem but it's pretty common [TS]

01:09:42   high-end video recording after the idea [TS]

01:09:44   is you know if you if you're on a video [TS]

01:09:46   shoot you probably a recording audio off [TS]

01:09:51   camera you're probably recording audio [TS]

01:09:52   through some other device and audio [TS]

01:09:54   recorder mix or whatever else you need [TS]

01:09:56   to then sync up the audio with the video [TS]

01:09:58   or you to sync multiple cameras video [TS]

01:10:01   and editing so you can switch between [TS]

01:10:02   the cameras and sink it all to the [TS]

01:10:04   master audio track so video apps have [TS]

01:10:07   had like Final Cut does this i'm pretty [TS]

01:10:09   sure i don't [TS]

01:10:10   watch my video but video have had ways [TS]

01:10:12   to do this for a long time where they [TS]

01:10:13   will take in that they will use audio [TS]

01:10:15   and they will be able to sync audio and [TS]

01:10:17   video between multiple tracks everything [TS]

01:10:18   what I wanted was a very basic command [TS]

01:10:21   line tool to do this so that i could put [TS]

01:10:23   it in as like part of my shell script to [TS]

01:10:25   process all your files through ffmpeg [TS]

01:10:27   whatever else normalize the format and [TS]

01:10:28   get them all and basically take your [TS]

01:10:30   like you know inconvenient call recorder [TS]

01:10:33   files and whatever else and output a set [TS]

01:10:36   of sync fully synced & undrafted wav [TS]

01:10:39   files that importance of logic and edit [TS]

01:10:41   this summit podcasters if you're doing [TS]

01:10:44   if you're just recording skype from your [TS]

01:10:46   computer and that's it and that's use [TS]

01:10:49   those are the tracks you don't really [TS]

01:10:50   need to do this because everything is [TS]

01:10:51   all synced up but if you if you're doing [TS]

01:10:54   what's called like a double ender method [TS]

01:10:56   where like each each end of the each [TS]

01:10:59   person on on the call record their own [TS]

01:11:01   track locally like we do it sounds way [TS]

01:11:03   better and you it affords you a great [TS]

01:11:05   deal of flexibility and editing for [TS]

01:11:06   shows for more than two people on them [TS]

01:11:07   but this is a problem you have reason to [TS]

01:11:10   think otherwise files ok drift is [TS]

01:11:12   another problem [TS]

01:11:13   this is really down the weeds and I'm [TS]

01:11:15   sorry this is boring anybody so i'll try [TS]

01:11:16   to be quick [TS]

01:11:17   basically your audio interface you know [TS]

01:11:19   whatever recording you whether it's the [TS]

01:11:21   micro no sound whatever your audio [TS]

01:11:23   interface record a certain number of [TS]

01:11:25   samples per second so a minus in the [TS]

01:11:28   numbers 44 kilohertz 441 kilohertz like [TS]

01:11:31   that's the number of samples per second [TS]

01:11:33   that is recording into your wave file [TS]

01:11:35   the problem is that computers are not [TS]

01:11:37   perfect these are not you know these [TS]

01:11:39   these all come down to these little [TS]

01:11:40   analog electronic components and nothing [TS]

01:11:43   is perfect because everything has to be [TS]

01:11:45   cheap and amazing and work all the time [TS]

01:11:46   and so what what the computer thinks is [TS]

01:11:50   you know x times per second will [TS]

01:11:53   actually very very slightly between [TS]

01:11:55   different devices between different [TS]

01:11:57   computers you know whatever it whatever [TS]

01:11:59   sharing the clock signal to say this is [TS]

01:12:01   that I'm taking 44100 samples per second [TS]

01:12:04   every computer clock is going to be very [TS]

01:12:05   slightly different and it might be like [TS]

01:12:08   point zero zero one percent off of yours [TS]

01:12:11   but over the course of a to our podcast [TS]

01:12:14   you could be off by like a full second [TS]

01:12:18   by the end and so it would if you sync [TS]

01:12:20   up the tracks at the beginning if you [TS]

01:12:22   say I everyone clap [TS]

01:12:23   and then we'll sink those collapse go to [TS]

01:12:26   go an hour later in the podcast and you [TS]

01:12:29   will hear that people are no longer [TS]

01:12:31   lined up properly there they'll be like [TS]

01:12:33   a second off or something and that's [TS]

01:12:34   because of this of this difference in [TS]

01:12:36   clocks in the actual analog hardware [TS]

01:12:39   like the the thing that is generated a [TS]

01:12:41   clock signal X times per second is just [TS]

01:12:43   you know point zero zero one percent off [TS]

01:12:45   of what yours was my tool was designed [TS]

01:12:50   to solve both of these problems make [TS]

01:12:52   something that is that is that fixes [TS]

01:12:54   drift and that they know basically an [TS]

01:12:56   basically sinks the file throughout the [TS]

01:12:58   whole file like it since everything up [TS]

01:12:59   and i just put these these wavelengths [TS]

01:13:01   is important to my editor and then do [TS]

01:13:03   nothing else to in that way and move on [TS]

01:13:06   to the content because i want the [TS]

01:13:09   podcast that I produce to sound as great [TS]

01:13:12   as they possibly can sound I want them [TS]

01:13:13   to have incredibly incredible high [TS]

01:13:15   production values because basically I [TS]

01:13:17   value you know the listeners I value [TS]

01:13:19   your time I value your attention and I [TS]

01:13:21   want to make sure the show sounds good [TS]

01:13:22   to its easiest as possible and most [TS]

01:13:24   pleasant for you to listen to you know [TS]

01:13:26   making making this double ender [TS]

01:13:28   recording method work well and quickly [TS]

01:13:30   for me was very important so I said to [TS]

01:13:32   make this thing that would line up all [TS]

01:13:34   the tracks it slices of the file into [TS]

01:13:38   you know it looks at a whole bunch of [TS]

01:13:39   points that the file but its first out [TS]

01:13:40   just in the middle and it tries to line [TS]

01:13:42   up the middle so we can just get an [TS]

01:13:43   approximate lineup for the whole file [TS]

01:13:45   and it does this not by finding peaks [TS]

01:13:48   necessarily but it's a little more [TS]

01:13:50   involved in that it uses the fast [TS]

01:13:53   Fourier transform fft to break the audio [TS]

01:13:57   into frequencies rather than just like [TS]

01:13:59   the up-and-down wave that you see like a [TS]

01:14:00   wave editor it breaks down and [TS]

01:14:02   frequencies for each segment so it'll [TS]

01:14:03   take like a certain number of [TS]

01:14:05   milliseconds and say what is the [TS]

01:14:07   frequency breakdown of this for every [TS]

01:14:10   little slice it takes it kinda get it [TS]

01:14:13   makes a little like hash of this chunk [TS]

01:14:16   of the file to say for this little [TS]

01:14:18   millisecond slice [TS]

01:14:19   what is the dominant frequency and it [TS]

01:14:23   can if you think about like you know it [TS]

01:14:24   let's suppose a transit transit into a [TS]

01:14:26   ski for simplicity's sake you can say [TS]

01:14:29   all right well this second of audio had [TS]

01:14:32   the frequency like you know a FG you [TS]

01:14:35   know I get what we [TS]

01:14:36   it has it for every little slice it [TS]

01:14:38   takes in that second it can basically [TS]

01:14:40   build like a string and say alright well [TS]

01:14:41   this is the dominant frequency of this [TS]

01:14:44   slice of audio and then if you can [TS]

01:14:46   imagine just sliding that up and down [TS]

01:14:49   across a window of time so if you can [TS]

01:14:51   say these files are probably lined up [TS]

01:14:54   within 15 minutes [TS]

01:14:55   like did we probably hit record within [TS]

01:14:57   15 minutes of each other yes [TS]

01:14:58   so there's a certain it defines a window [TS]

01:15:01   and says alright well within this window [TS]

01:15:03   just literally slide this around slide [TS]

01:15:06   this hack so i have made of this little [TS]

01:15:08   bit of audio here slide this around [TS]

01:15:10   until you find the point in this range [TS]

01:15:14   that it had it is the least different [TS]

01:15:16   from a reference track and the reference [TS]

01:15:20   track is simply it's the skype recording [TS]

01:15:23   basically it is the recording of all of [TS]

01:15:25   us talking so the reference track is a [TS]

01:15:27   rather than trying to take these random [TS]

01:15:28   files and say you know sink this to your [TS]

01:15:31   ear just figure out what sounds right [TS]

01:15:33   all of this is it's based on take all [TS]

01:15:37   these input files from each of our [TS]

01:15:38   microphones and sink them to the [TS]

01:15:40   reference track that contains all of us [TS]

01:15:42   and then just delete the reference track [TS]

01:15:44   because then you'll have the the [TS]

01:15:45   pristine awesome version of all of us [TS]

01:15:47   are microphones instead of the crappy [TS]

01:15:49   skype version of all of us and that's so [TS]

01:15:51   it basically uses this fft to just like [TS]

01:15:54   slide around and build a little hashes [TS]

01:15:57   of each segment of audio and find out [TS]

01:15:59   where they line up so first lines up the [TS]

01:16:01   middle with very very high precision and [TS]

01:16:04   then it goes throughout the whole rest [TS]

01:16:06   of the file and it goes i think right [TS]

01:16:09   now I have it doing it in like 10 just [TS]

01:16:11   like ten percent increments like you [TS]

01:16:12   know there's like so that nine other [TS]

01:16:13   ones after the middle was lined up go to [TS]

01:16:16   the beginning and go to the end and go [TS]

01:16:18   to the steps in the middle [TS]

01:16:19   how far off is the synchronization at [TS]

01:16:22   those points because thing about drift [TS]

01:16:24   is it tends to be fairly constant you [TS]

01:16:27   know your your clock variation in those [TS]

01:16:29   and how fast your your your computer's [TS]

01:16:31   clock measures that time slice that [TS]

01:16:34   tends to be fixed or close enough to fix [TS]

01:16:36   during a two-hour podcast it then it [TS]

01:16:38   goes to the ends of this scale and says [TS]

01:16:41   alright well middle were perfectly lined [TS]

01:16:42   up now at the beginning we are like [TS]

01:16:45   point five seconds off negative negative [TS]

01:16:48   15 seconds at [TS]

01:16:49   the end we are point five seconds ahead [TS]

01:16:52   so that means that in this time span [TS]

01:16:55   we've gone from negative 52 plus [TS]

01:16:56   negative 5 plus point five so that it [TS]

01:16:58   basically builds you know based on [TS]

01:17:01   looking at the whole file looking at [TS]

01:17:02   these averages of this rate it [TS]

01:17:04   interpolates an average drift for the [TS]

01:17:06   whole file and it says alright well this [TS]

01:17:08   looks like we are gaining point 1 [TS]

01:17:11   seconds adrift per hour or you know [TS]

01:17:14   whatever the rate is based on you know [TS]

01:17:16   looking at all the different points in [TS]

01:17:17   the file once the middle is line so then [TS]

01:17:19   it just goes the beginning there was the [TS]

01:17:21   beginning we'll fix that and then [TS]

01:17:23   throughout the file we know we know how [TS]

01:17:25   many seconds per hour or whatever we [TS]

01:17:28   have to do insert or remove to sync this [TS]

01:17:31   up properly so in PA it uses you know [TS]

01:17:34   basic audio stuff to find periods of [TS]

01:17:37   silence and use I'm pretty good deal [TS]

01:17:40   with silence now [TS]

01:17:41   yeah use the silence to insert or remove [TS]

01:17:44   padding at opportune times where you [TS]

01:17:47   won't notice and that is how it said [TS]

01:17:50   that's how it's done drifts the files [TS]

01:17:51   that smart as hell and the vast majority [TS]

01:17:53   of the time it works and because it is [TS]

01:17:55   using dominant frequencies as like the [TS]

01:17:59   way to tell whether things are similar [TS]

01:18:01   it is fairly immune to the volume [TS]

01:18:04   differences because like the skype track [TS]

01:18:06   is going to have a very different volume [TS]

01:18:07   level then whatever microphone file you [TS]

01:18:08   gave me it's also going to be way lower [TS]

01:18:10   fidelity it's gonna happen it's gonna be [TS]

01:18:12   like you know weird and possibly [TS]

01:18:15   distorted in subtle ways but dominant [TS]

01:18:18   frequencies tend to be the same [TS]

01:18:20   regardless of you know how how you're [TS]

01:18:22   gonna that's what you're hearing like it [TS]

01:18:23   sounds off with the same it's gonna it's [TS]

01:18:25   gonna match up pretty closely in the in [TS]

01:18:28   the file and in in the frequency hashing [TS]

01:18:31   thing and then so it's just in and [TS]

01:18:33   because it's like i'm honestly looking [TS]

01:18:35   to the exact match [TS]

01:18:36   I'm just you give me a window in which i [TS]

01:18:38   will likely i'm likely to find this and [TS]

01:18:40   I will find like the closest match and [TS]

01:18:42   then I used no confidence ratings and [TS]

01:18:43   all the stuff so that's how it works [TS]

01:18:46   I i wrote this I don't know two years [TS]

01:18:48   ago maybe i did awhile ago and I've [TS]

01:18:51   basically not touched in a few a few [TS]

01:18:54   friends of ours it's kind of like a [TS]

01:18:56   private alpha a few friends of ours use [TS]

01:18:58   it to to edit their shows and I i have [TS]

01:19:00   almost never have to touch the algorithm [TS]

01:19:01   since writing it [TS]

01:19:03   only the main reasons i have not [TS]

01:19:05   released this yet are that there are few [TS]

01:19:07   bugs but it's it's not usually bugs in [TS]

01:19:10   finding in lining it up in fact the the [TS]

01:19:14   rate at which your property lines things [TS]

01:19:15   up is shockingly good the the main bugs [TS]

01:19:19   are around things like you know well if [TS]

01:19:21   one file is like 30 minutes shorter than [TS]

01:19:23   the other one like a it might they might [TS]

01:19:25   not line up there you might not [TS]

01:19:26   understand properly because it like try [TS]

01:19:28   to interpolate a value from Carlisle [TS]

01:19:30   doesn't feel like there's there's some [TS]

01:19:32   cleanup work needed to be done to make [TS]

01:19:34   this a general usefulness really simple [TS]

01:19:36   tool it would also be nice if it had a [TS]

01:19:39   GUI because most people want a graphical [TS]

01:19:42   interface for their applications most [TS]

01:19:43   people don't want to have binaries that [TS]

01:19:45   you can use from a shell script that's a [TS]

01:19:47   book so that that's why this is not out [TS]

01:19:50   yet and the market for special thing is [TS]

01:19:53   is extremely small because it's a tool [TS]

01:19:55   for podcasters and so it's hard to [TS]

01:19:57   charge money and make any money from [TS]

01:19:58   that and so you know I don't know I [TS]

01:20:00   don't know I don't go we'll figure that [TS]

01:20:02   out later i guess but i do eventually [TS]

01:20:04   plan to release this because it is an [TS]

01:20:06   incredibly useful tool for anybody who [TS]

01:20:09   does double ending podcasting where [TS]

01:20:11   you're recording local local tracks from [TS]

01:20:13   people and I think the world of [TS]

01:20:15   podcasting will be better off if more [TS]

01:20:17   people did that and making that easier [TS]

01:20:18   is therefore working towards that goal [TS]

01:20:21   because one thing I really don't like [TS]

01:20:24   it's a podcast listener is I should [TS]

01:20:28   never know that your podcast is recorded [TS]

01:20:31   with skype and what that means is I [TS]

01:20:34   should never hear you talking about [TS]

01:20:35   skype i should never hear skype drop out [TS]

01:20:38   if there's a skype dropout you have to [TS]

01:20:39   you have to worry about that needs to be [TS]

01:20:41   cut from the show all discussion on [TS]

01:20:42   skype should be cut from the show I [TS]

01:20:44   should never H I should never know who's [TS]

01:20:46   listening to you skype and I also [TS]

01:20:48   shouldn't be hearing skype artifact when [TS]

01:20:50   your comfort when when like somebody's [TS]

01:20:52   connection is going along here take a [TS]

01:20:53   little walk and they start degrading the [TS]

01:20:55   bit rate down and starting a little bit [TS]

01:20:57   worse little more telephonic you start [TS]

01:20:59   getting worse and worse and worse and [TS]

01:21:00   then you hear upgrading get better and [TS]

01:21:02   better better like that was fine five [TS]

01:21:05   years ago now we've moved on [TS]

01:21:07   we know how to do things better now so [TS]

01:21:09   podcasting should now be it we should I [TS]

01:21:12   want to raise the bar like the the local [TS]

01:21:15   and local recording [TS]

01:21:16   should be the norm now in most cases and [TS]

01:21:18   yes there are some cases where you need [TS]

01:21:20   to use skype for practical reasons [TS]

01:21:21   things like if you have a guest call-in [TS]

01:21:23   show we're having a different guests [TS]

01:21:25   every week like getting people [TS]

01:21:26   microphones is already a big pan [TS]

01:21:28   it's hard enough dealing with that so [TS]

01:21:29   you know it's you know that there's [TS]

01:21:32   certain exceptions to this but for the [TS]

01:21:34   most part like if you're doing the same [TS]

01:21:35   show every week with the same people i [TS]

01:21:37   should never ever know that use skype so [TS]

01:21:40   that's why I made this tool that's why I [TS]

01:21:42   made it to save myself time hopefully [TS]

01:21:44   will save more people time in the future [TS]

01:21:45   make podcasting better i was kind of my [TS]

01:21:47   overall goal for everything i do these [TS]

01:21:49   days but it's gonna be a lot of work [TS]

01:21:51   before this is in a releasable state you [TS]

01:21:54   know it's funny what you said about [TS]

01:21:55   never knowing that that skype was used [TS]

01:21:57   because i feel like we do a really good [TS]

01:21:59   job of that unless my imac that I swear [TS]

01:22:02   isn't broken breaks in which case that's [TS]

01:22:06   exactly why we had to use my guess was [TS]

01:22:09   your recording of me for the first half [TS]

01:22:12   of that show exactly and people [TS]

01:22:14   justifiably we were fairly either [TS]

01:22:16   confused too perturbed by it and I don't [TS]

01:22:18   blame them it sounded like garbage and i [TS]

01:22:21   still feel terribly guilty about that [TS]

01:22:23   and then that is exactly what we're [TS]

01:22:25   trying to avoid it's all your fault [TS]

01:22:26   Casey it's not too bad and that's fine [TS]

01:22:30   it was 20 minutes it was you know if it [TS]

01:22:32   happened every week I'd be mad [TS]

01:22:34   yeah but you know if it happens once in [TS]

01:22:35   like a three-year run of a show [TS]

01:22:37   it's not that particular know that [TS]

01:22:40   that's really really interesting what [TS]

01:22:41   was this written in the sea or yeah it's [TS]

01:22:44   it uses objective-c its objective c [TS]

01:22:47   binary food that you access five [TS]

01:22:49   terminal so like it had access to [TS]

01:22:51   foundation and everything but when all [TS]

01:22:53   the coral the core logic and it uses the [TS]

01:22:56   accelerate framework uses all the all [TS]

01:22:58   the cool vsp functions for ft and [TS]

01:23:02   everything and of course it runs in [TS]

01:23:03   parallel so it you know this is one [TS]

01:23:05   reason i like using computers lots of [TS]

01:23:07   course because a lot of tools that I [TS]

01:23:09   either use or make and use use principal [TS]

01:23:12   dispatch to work in parallel very very [TS]

01:23:14   effectively and this is like this is the [TS]

01:23:16   perfect problem to paralyze it's like [TS]

01:23:19   all right well take this one input file [TS]

01:23:20   and just analyze all these different [TS]

01:23:22   chunks and then at the end figure out [TS]

01:23:24   which one had the best score that's so [TS]

01:23:26   easy to paralyze so of course it does [TS]

01:23:28   and [TS]

01:23:29   it makes all my fans and it's just [TS]

01:23:30   awesome now this is this is really [TS]

01:23:32   really cool and as someone who works on [TS]

01:23:37   kind of regular software both in past [TS]

01:23:41   jobs in my current job I definitely get [TS]

01:23:43   to solve old problems but not this kind [TS]

01:23:45   of cool that that's super super [TS]

01:23:47   interesting and super neat so your [TS]

01:23:50   long-term plan you're still kicking the [TS]

01:23:52   tires on releasing I mean I know you [TS]

01:23:55   said you want to release it what is that [TS]

01:23:56   like is that in the next month in the [TS]

01:23:59   next six months in the next six years [TS]

01:24:00   what do you think it is incredibly [TS]

01:24:03   unlikely to be the next month i would [TS]

01:24:05   say six months maybe a year more likely [TS]

01:24:09   but i don't know it depends on what like [TS]

01:24:11   even when some doing really you know i [TS]

01:24:13   i'm i'm already working on my my other [TS]

01:24:15   my production tool for putting in [TS]

01:24:17   chapters and stuff like a morgue that's [TS]

01:24:19   a different this is that this is a [TS]

01:24:20   different app so there's that and I have [TS]

01:24:23   you know I have this collection of the [TS]

01:24:25   shell script that does all sorts of [TS]

01:24:26   other useful things like compress and [TS]

01:24:28   decompress logic projects there's all [TS]

01:24:31   sorts of crazy to fight that I have for [TS]

01:24:32   making podcasting easier and so there's [TS]

01:24:34   always this kind of debate of like you [TS]

01:24:36   know which of these things could I or [TS]

01:24:37   should I make into a product and with [TS]

01:24:39   these things you just a shell script [TS]

01:24:41   that I that I use and maybe give a [TS]

01:24:43   couple of friends because the others a [TS]

01:24:45   lot of work involved makes me a product [TS]

01:24:46   and it probably isn't worth it for a lot [TS]

01:24:48   of these so you know time will tell but [TS]

01:24:51   uh up releasing someday you should [TS]

01:24:54   release like the market armament podcast [TS]

01:24:56   get the honestly that that's kind of [TS]

01:24:58   what I was thinking that I might do some [TS]

01:25:00   day but you know cause like the you [TS]

01:25:02   could argue maybe I can just make one [TS]

01:25:05   grand app that had like incorporate all [TS]

01:25:08   the stuff and I don't think that's right [TS]

01:25:11   or at least that one grant app would [TS]

01:25:14   have to also be the editor and while [TS]

01:25:17   some day that might be cool i'm [TS]

01:25:18   certainly nowhere near ready to tackle [TS]

01:25:20   that kind of problem right now so [TS]

01:25:22   eventually there might be one grant app [TS]

01:25:25   that you know it is the editor and the [TS]

01:25:28   encoder and the recorder and you know [TS]

01:25:31   and all this stuff that'd be fine but [TS]

01:25:33   that we are not there today so probably [TS]

01:25:35   a collection of small apps may be sold [TS]

01:25:37   as a pack or something i don't even know [TS]

01:25:40   but we'll see you know this whole iOS [TS]

01:25:42   app think it's kinda hard to make money [TS]

01:25:44   these days so maybe i'll switch over [TS]

01:25:45   this kind of stuff [TS]

01:25:47   good luck my friend thank you I think [TS]

01:25:50   we're good [TS]

01:25:51   alright thanks to our sponsors this week [TS]

01:25:52   betterment tracker and indochino and we [TS]

01:25:55   will see you next week [TS]

01:25:57   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:26:02   mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

01:26:07   it was accidental John research Marco [TS]

01:26:12   and Casey would let him [TS]

01:26:15   because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

01:26:19   and you can find the show know today d p [TS]

01:26:23   dot and if your twitter follow them [TS]

01:26:31   yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:26:36   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC [TS]

01:26:43   let's see recuse it's [TS]

01:26:49   what [TS]

01:26:55   talk about now is a the the whole [TS]

01:27:02   there's nothing new happening in the [TS]

01:27:03   news and why you guys are cranky about [TS]

01:27:05   it [TS]

01:27:06   alright so so to recap a couple of weeks [TS]

01:27:09   ago or last week whatever it was I made [TS]

01:27:12   a flippant remark i think it was me [TS]

01:27:13   saying there's no other news this week [TS]

01:27:16   or something like that and this was this [TS]

01:27:18   was during a week where there was a lot [TS]

01:27:20   of world news and and political news and [TS]

01:27:24   you know the news you know things things [TS]

01:27:26   like police shootings and then and there [TS]

01:27:29   was a lot of like you know news but I [TS]

01:27:33   was really just saying there wasn't tech [TS]

01:27:34   news but I said it was a slow news week [TS]

01:27:36   I didn't say it was a slow technews week [TS]

01:27:38   so you know a few people were [TS]

01:27:39   understandably no concern about that or [TS]

01:27:41   disagree or were offended by that and i [TS]

01:27:44   think this is first and foremost attack [TS]

01:27:46   show and there's all sorts of horrible [TS]

01:27:48   things that happened in the world and [TS]

01:27:50   and sometimes we do cover things that [TS]

01:27:53   are not it directly like what apple has [TS]

01:27:57   released this week or whatever else [TS]

01:27:58   we've covered you know things subjects [TS]

01:28:00   such as women in technology and online [TS]

01:28:02   harassment things like this that that [TS]

01:28:05   are partly tech issues but also are [TS]

01:28:07   partly like societal issues or other [TS]

01:28:09   issues in general though we do focus [TS]

01:28:12   mostly on the geeky stuff it in a world [TS]

01:28:15   where there is so much horribleness that [TS]

01:28:19   happens in the real world and this stuff [TS]

01:28:22   gets to me in real life and the world of [TS]

01:28:25   tech is a is like a vacation from it's a [TS]

01:28:29   break from that it is it is this nice [TS]

01:28:31   little world but we can pretend like all [TS]

01:28:33   that matters in the world is how long [TS]

01:28:36   it's been since the mac pro's updated [TS]

01:28:38   and if we don't cover other things that [TS]

01:28:41   like horrible things are going on in the [TS]

01:28:43   world i consider that a feature not a [TS]

01:28:45   bug for the most part most of the time [TS]

01:28:47   because not only do do i need that and [TS]

01:28:51   you know and you guys you know you can [TS]

01:28:52   speak yourselves in a minute oh [TS]

01:28:53   definitely not only not only do i need [TS]

01:28:55   that as as a human being but I feel like [TS]

01:28:58   it's important that our listeners also [TS]

01:29:00   get a break from that too if they want [TS]

01:29:02   to because there's so many other places [TS]

01:29:03   that you can get coverage of major world [TS]

01:29:06   news and political news and horrible [TS]

01:29:07   tragedies and everything else [TS]

01:29:08   and I think it's important that people [TS]

01:29:12   have something that's that's not that [TS]

01:29:13   you know when all the stuff is going on [TS]

01:29:15   in the world that it the other has to be [TS]

01:29:17   some some relief from that some break [TS]

01:29:19   from that somewhere at some safe place [TS]

01:29:21   you can go and and not here horrible [TS]

01:29:24   news every week [TS]

01:29:25   all right i'm gonna going to give the [TS]

01:29:26   flip side of that which although I agree [TS]

01:29:27   with all the things you said that like [TS]

01:29:28   I'm going to present the the opposing [TS]

01:29:31   argument and then explain like that the [TS]

01:29:33   meta issue with why it's difficult to [TS]

01:29:35   address this period like you said you [TS]

01:29:38   know we know what the shows about just [TS]

01:29:39   look at the past history of topics i [TS]

01:29:41   think everyone agree like it to figure [TS]

01:29:42   out like how this works you just go to [TS]

01:29:44   extremes and see what the endpoints are [TS]

01:29:46   so like one extreme would be like a [TS]

01:29:47   nuclear bomb goes off in manhattan right [TS]

01:29:49   if we had to show that week assuming [TS]

01:29:51   Marco still alive you can say that but [TS]

01:29:53   you probably wouldn't have that problem [TS]

01:29:54   with solve itself [TS]

01:29:56   yeah anyway if we had to show that week [TS]

01:29:57   and didn't mention it it would seem [TS]

01:30:00   really weird right like that's one [TS]

01:30:01   extreme right as I oh yeah i know this [TS]

01:30:03   is tech podcast and that's why we're not [TS]

01:30:04   going to mention a nuclear bomb went off [TS]

01:30:06   in Manhattan because it's not a tech [TS]

01:30:07   topic right and so we won't talk about [TS]

01:30:09   it everybody including us would find [TS]

01:30:12   that super weird and nonsensical and it [TS]

01:30:15   would stand out like a sore thumb so [TS]

01:30:16   there's one extreme to the other extreme [TS]

01:30:17   is like you know a bunch of people [TS]

01:30:20   spaced spray-painting swastikas on the [TS]

01:30:22   elementary school in my hometown right [TS]

01:30:25   most of the listeners probably don't [TS]

01:30:26   care about that it is not a tech issue [TS]

01:30:30   but you know I would care about deeply [TS]

01:30:33   right so here's an issue that i would [TS]

01:30:35   care about deeply because my kids go to [TS]

01:30:36   that school and i'm super concerned [TS]

01:30:38   about it on my up at night thinking [TS]

01:30:39   about it and it's really concerning [TS]

01:30:40   right but it still doesn't pass muster [TS]

01:30:44   to be on the podcast slots available so [TS]

01:30:46   I feel like those are the two ends of [TS]

01:30:47   the of the of the chain things that we [TS]

01:30:50   you know both of them are things we care [TS]

01:30:51   deeply care about because Woodall care [TS]

01:30:53   deeply about nuking manhattan and i [TS]

01:30:55   would care deeply about people space and [TS]

01:30:57   preparing swastikas on my kids [TS]

01:30:58   elementary school right but one of those [TS]

01:31:01   things think we would all agree it's [TS]

01:31:03   like well that's not father 480p and the [TS]

01:31:05   other 1i think everyone listening we [TS]

01:31:07   would agree that it would be super weird [TS]

01:31:09   if we didn't mention right and so the [TS]

01:31:11   trick about this thing is figuring out [TS]

01:31:13   the along this spectrum between the nuke [TS]

01:31:15   and like the local issue that you know [TS]

01:31:17   whatever along the spectrum of issues [TS]

01:31:19   that we're going to presume that like [TS]

01:31:21   like Marcus and i'm assuming as well [TS]

01:31:23   that we all really do personally care [TS]

01:31:25   about and think about a lot of whatever [TS]

01:31:27   there are many issues along with [TS]

01:31:28   spectrum and the question is when does [TS]

01:31:30   it become weird that we don't say [TS]

01:31:32   anything right [TS]

01:31:34   secondary question is all right we have [TS]

01:31:36   not saying anything and anyone can pick [TS]

01:31:38   the line along that spectrum like I feel [TS]

01:31:39   like it's weird you didn't say anything [TS]

01:31:40   about the nuclei don't put it on me we [TS]

01:31:42   care about your local elementary school [TS]

01:31:44   because I got my own issues right second [TS]

01:31:45   thing is what if you don't just not say [TS]

01:31:48   anything but in fact you say as Marco [TS]

01:31:51   did you notice even spoken to protect [TS]

01:31:53   you say the us-cert that this that this [TS]

01:31:57   thing doesn't exist here where you say [TS]

01:31:59   oh well there is no news this week right [TS]

01:32:00   now obviously that's not Marco went [TS]

01:32:01   meant wheel in context I think it's very [TS]

01:32:04   clear what he meant but you could hear [TS]

01:32:06   it and interpret it the other way right [TS]

01:32:08   you know we almost become podcast all [TS]

01:32:09   the time sometimes not even speaking is [TS]

01:32:11   just like assuming a context that is not [TS]

01:32:12   shared with the audience right up but [TS]

01:32:15   positively asserting the absence of [TS]

01:32:18   something is gets into the the realm of [TS]

01:32:21   what everyone calls her a sure where [TS]

01:32:22   you're intentionally most of the time [TS]

01:32:26   erasures is like intentionally [TS]

01:32:27   intentionally or unintentionally [TS]

01:32:27   creating an environment where people [TS]

01:32:31   sort of soaking in it can how can it [TS]

01:32:35   supports a worldview where this thing is [TS]

01:32:38   not an issue or is not a problem or [TS]

01:32:39   doesn't exist so by positively asserting [TS]

01:32:41   that nothing was going on [TS]

01:32:43   it is a form of erasing the struggle of [TS]

01:32:46   like black lives matter or whatever [TS]

01:32:47   things are you that you know that we may [TS]

01:32:49   care deeply about like the people listen [TS]

01:32:51   it's like I'm providing a safe space for [TS]

01:32:53   you to pretend the black lives matter [TS]

01:32:55   doesn't exist right and there's a flip [TS]

01:32:57   side as well Marco says I call sometimes [TS]

01:32:59   you don't wanna hear about the crappy [TS]

01:32:59   things never just one here is to talk [TS]

01:33:01   about Casey's mac or whatever like there [TS]

01:33:03   is a flip side but a ratio is a real [TS]

01:33:06   thing and it happens all the time and so [TS]

01:33:08   when the combination of like not being [TS]

01:33:12   clear enough about this like there's no [TS]

01:33:13   new tech news and really saying there's [TS]

01:33:15   no news that reads exactly like a ray [TS]

01:33:17   sure and I think for a lot of people [TS]

01:33:20   although black lives matter and and [TS]

01:33:23   police shootings and stuff is not a nuke [TS]

01:33:25   on Manhattan it is close enough to the [TS]

01:33:27   threshold of things that should be [TS]

01:33:28   important enough that that should come [TS]

01:33:30   up on ATP for people to think only think [TS]

01:33:32   it should include now that judgment i [TS]

01:33:34   feel like is [TS]

01:33:35   you know that that's definitely judgment [TS]

01:33:37   call whether you think it's appropriate [TS]

01:33:38   to add but once you start positively [TS]

01:33:39   asserting that starts looking like a ray [TS]

01:33:40   sure that's a problem as well and then [TS]

01:33:44   the meta problem is that is say this [TS]

01:33:46   happens say all three of us who I [TS]

01:33:48   presume all care deeply about these [TS]

01:33:50   issues that we didn't mention the show [TS]

01:33:51   as we do about many issues that we don't [TS]

01:33:52   mention show for a variety of reasons [TS]

01:33:53   and all of us basically made the [TS]

01:33:55   judgment without you know the visit is [TS]

01:33:57   not going to be a topic we're going to [TS]

01:33:58   discuss an ATP just like there are so [TS]

01:33:59   many topics that we all care about that [TS]

01:34:01   we don't discuss an ATP for various [TS]

01:34:02   reasons that marker outline when we end [TS]

01:34:07   up with a show that some people here and [TS]

01:34:08   it's like oh you know you're not only [TS]

01:34:10   not discussing this but you're making it [TS]

01:34:11   seem like it doesn't happen and that's [TS]

01:34:13   bad because it happens all the time and [TS]

01:34:15   complain to us about it [TS]

01:34:17   the natural reaction is to say but you [TS]

01:34:20   know it sounds like they're improving [TS]

01:34:21   our motivations all but we we have to [TS]

01:34:23   say but we do care about that in fact [TS]

01:34:25   not only do we care about that but we're [TS]

01:34:26   on the same side as you and like it's an [TS]

01:34:28   important issue to us and hear the [TS]

01:34:30   reasons I didn't want to talk about it [TS]

01:34:31   and so on and so forth you get defensive [TS]

01:34:33   essentially and so to have a show where [TS]

01:34:35   you come back and have to talk about it [TS]

01:34:37   in anyway it's very difficult not to [TS]

01:34:39   feel like you're under attack when [TS]

01:34:40   you're you feel like you're defending [TS]

01:34:41   yourself for something you didn't do [TS]

01:34:42   because you totally agree with them but [TS]

01:34:44   at the same time there's there's no way [TS]

01:34:46   to like you can't go back and add the [TS]

01:34:48   the words that you didn't put there and [TS]

01:34:49   you can't control how people interpret [TS]

01:34:51   things because it does read like a racer [TS]

01:34:53   too many people and some people you just [TS]

01:34:55   gonna disagree with about what what [TS]

01:34:56   makes the threshold from you know the [TS]

01:34:58   the spray paint on the school and the [TS]

01:35:00   new king Manhattan you might have [TS]

01:35:02   disagreements on where that line is but [TS]

01:35:03   the debate becomes about are you a good [TS]

01:35:05   person who cares about the issues that i [TS]

01:35:06   care i don't you care about this are you [TS]

01:35:08   actively trying to erase this and so [TS]

01:35:10   it's really difficult to come to show on [TS]

01:35:12   a follow-up type thing and talk about it [TS]

01:35:15   in a way that isn't immediately [TS]

01:35:17   defensive right regardless of how [TS]

01:35:18   everyone falls on on the various issues [TS]

01:35:20   and so I think rather than delving into [TS]

01:35:22   the specifics of the issue which you [TS]

01:35:25   know we have new news with the egg and [TS]

01:35:26   another topic that we didn't talk about [TS]

01:35:27   and don't plan to like the Republican [TS]

01:35:29   National Convention look rather than [TS]

01:35:30   actually delving into a topic but i [TS]

01:35:31   still feel like are not appropriate for [TS]

01:35:33   the show I think it was more important [TS]

01:35:35   to talk about the meta issue of being [TS]

01:35:39   aware that even though you may agree and [TS]

01:35:43   may think things are important there are [TS]

01:35:44   things you can do either accidentally or [TS]

01:35:45   on purpose because that can create an [TS]

01:35:47   invite [TS]

01:35:48   garment that makes it seem like those [TS]

01:35:49   issues are less important than they are [TS]

01:35:51   or gives people sort of a place where [TS]

01:35:54   they can a safe haven away from those [TS]

01:35:56   things in a bad way Marco talk about the [TS]

01:35:58   good ways like we all care about them we [TS]

01:35:59   all know about them makes us said but [TS]

01:36:01   sometimes i just want to have you know [TS]

01:36:03   Escape and play pokemon go like that's [TS]

01:36:05   definitely a role things reply but the [TS]

01:36:07   other aspect of it is that I don't think [TS]

01:36:10   those are actually important and it's a [TS]

01:36:12   shame that the real news and it's not [TS]

01:36:14   even newsworthy and those people should [TS]

01:36:16   just stop complaining and thank goodness [TS]

01:36:18   i can listen to a podcast that agrees [TS]

01:36:20   with me that those things are being [TS]

01:36:22   concerned because nothing interesting is [TS]

01:36:23   happening in the news right which is [TS]

01:36:25   obviously not what any of us meant but [TS]

01:36:26   it can read like that from the outside [TS]

01:36:28   so it's all I you know what what should [TS]

01:36:31   we do differently what should we do [TS]

01:36:32   better if you just aware of that issue [TS]

01:36:34   like the next time you know someone [TS]

01:36:37   you're one of us says something like [TS]

01:36:38   that and the context I think that's all [TS]

01:36:40   is needed and and then I guess the [TS]

01:36:44   secondary thing is even though it feels [TS]

01:36:46   terrible to think and talk about it on [TS]

01:36:48   the next show [TS]

01:36:49   do it anyway because it's better than [TS]

01:36:51   like if we were to just not say anything [TS]

01:36:52   on the show about it i think that would [TS]

01:36:55   be works is that would be like doubling [TS]

01:36:56   down that would be like well I didn't [TS]

01:36:58   know what a racer was and definitely [TS]

01:37:00   wasn't doing it on purpose but now that [TS]

01:37:01   you mention it I'm gonna do it I'm gonna [TS]

01:37:03   pretend you know i'm going to pretend [TS]

01:37:04   that nobody complained like just being [TS]

01:37:06   spiteful about it and so you know but we [TS]

01:37:08   do an ATP as the the most painful thing [TS]

01:37:11   possible and then we screwed up but [TS]

01:37:13   that's our way [TS]

01:37:14   yeah i mean i-i naturally agree with [TS]

01:37:17   that with pretty much everything both [TS]

01:37:18   you guys said I don't know I I I [TS]

01:37:20   absolutely felt attacked when I saw this [TS]

01:37:23   feedback and it was from from somebody I [TS]

01:37:26   feel like I know and definitely respect [TS]

01:37:28   and that almost made it worse because i [TS]

01:37:31   felt like it was coming from a person an [TS]

01:37:35   individual that I felt should have known [TS]

01:37:38   the context and I felt the context [TS]

01:37:40   pretty obvious i actually thought for a [TS]

01:37:41   long time I was the one who had set it [TS]

01:37:43   and I think you might be right Marco I [TS]

01:37:44   think it might have been you but it was [TS]

01:37:46   Marco and also tiff and like she also [TS]

01:37:48   got defensive about it like it is [TS]

01:37:49   totally natural get defensive about like [TS]

01:37:51   you're getting defensive about the wrong [TS]

01:37:52   thing like the person is not impugning [TS]

01:37:54   your motivations like everybody involved [TS]

01:37:56   knows that they care about think it's [TS]

01:37:58   all about like all right your [TS]

01:37:59   motivations are one thing [TS]

01:38:00   so you know judge ourselves by our [TS]

01:38:01   motivations but others by their actions [TS]

01:38:03   you're being judged by your actions even [TS]

01:38:04   your own intentional actions or even [TS]

01:38:06   marcos an intentional act like it's like [TS]

01:38:07   doesn't matter what you were thinking it [TS]

01:38:08   only matters what you said and how it [TS]

01:38:10   might be interpreted by people who are [TS]

01:38:12   predisposed to look for a place where [TS]

01:38:15   they where someone is positively [TS]

01:38:16   asserting you know that these people [TS]

01:38:18   don't matter you know I mean like that's [TS]

01:38:20   and that is a tough way to be judged and [TS]

01:38:22   has nothing to do with motivations and [TS]

01:38:24   you can totally feel like you're being [TS]

01:38:25   attacked but if you're not aware that [TS]

01:38:27   even a thing [TS]

01:38:28   it's hard to understand what's the big [TS]

01:38:30   deal like you know and I know we all [TS]

01:38:32   know together that we care about this [TS]

01:38:34   isn't carrying enough and you know I [TS]

01:38:36   didn't do this on purpose and you know [TS]

01:38:38   the context and it should be clear to [TS]

01:38:39   people listening all that is we can all [TS]

01:38:42   agree on that and still say yeah but not [TS]

01:38:45   everyone is on that same page and not [TS]

01:38:48   everyone understands your motivations [TS]

01:38:50   and those you as well as I do and all [TS]

01:38:52   were left with is your actions and your [TS]

01:38:54   actions can have a small harmful effect [TS]

01:38:56   and just letting you know like maybe [TS]

01:38:59   that's something to be careful about I [TS]

01:39:00   think about it at least talk about on [TS]

01:39:02   the following show which I feel like [TS]

01:39:04   we're we're doing and that's the right [TS]

01:39:05   thing to do [TS]

01:39:06   despite the fact that we all feel like [TS]

01:39:08   defensive and immediately about it's [TS]

01:39:09   just human nature [TS]

01:39:11   oh yeah i was extremely Reggie when this [TS]

01:39:13   was flying by on Twitter it was the [TS]

01:39:16   angriest stuff gotten at something I've [TS]

01:39:19   seen on twitter that that affected me [TS]

01:39:21   personally in a long time [TS]

01:39:24   really because you thought people saying [TS]

01:39:25   you're a bad person basically and just [TS]

01:39:27   like you said John what would in a wall [TS]

01:39:30   just because I didn't bring it up it [TS]

01:39:32   doesn't mean I don't care and I think [TS]

01:39:35   it's abundantly obvious to anyone who's [TS]

01:39:37   ever listen to the show that the the [TS]

01:39:39   assumed context for Marco statement was [TS]

01:39:42   in technology and i think it's it's [TS]

01:39:45   unfair of me to assume that at anyone [TS]

01:39:49   else is coming from the same point but I [TS]

01:39:51   was deeply bothered by it and i still am [TS]

01:39:54   pretty fired up about it I i feel that i [TS]

01:39:56   could get all my the explanation didn't [TS]

01:39:58   help you get a handle on this because [TS]

01:39:59   you should totally like does that mean [TS]

01:40:01   like I I think information was was very [TS]

01:40:03   good and it migrated made a lot of sense [TS]

01:40:04   to me also and I i agree with you like [TS]

01:40:07   you know the thing about being a [TS]

01:40:08   spectrum of like you know to say if you [TS]

01:40:10   if you said look here but with like just [TS]

01:40:12   like you said [TS]

01:40:13   nothing happened this weekend you meant [TS]

01:40:15   in tech but a new kind of Manhattan that [TS]

01:40:18   week like that would be really [TS]

01:40:19   outrageous to end its many bars there is [TS]

01:40:21   no historical issue of a ratio of [TS]

01:40:23   nuclear bombs going off in the United [TS]

01:40:25   States sure but there is there is a long [TS]

01:40:28   there's a context for specific issues of [TS]

01:40:30   like not caring about it when when black [TS]

01:40:32   people get shot by police officers like [TS]

01:40:34   the idea that you know but thats that [TS]

01:40:37   it's a systemic issues that there is [TS]

01:40:38   specific context to this and that doing [TS]

01:40:41   in this context even accidentally so [TS]

01:40:43   much more worse so much worse than doing [TS]

01:40:45   in the context of a new going off [TS]

01:40:47   because it would just seem super weird i [TS]

01:40:49   was using that as an extreme yeah [TS]

01:40:50   there's no history of a ratio that is no [TS]

01:40:52   systemic prejudice against talking about [TS]

01:40:54   that there's no history of devaluing [TS]

01:40:56   that and saying it's not as important as [TS]

01:40:58   other stories you know I mean like [TS]

01:40:59   there's so much baggage and weight [TS]

01:41:01   behind this and and I think all of us or [TS]

01:41:04   just you know i mean at least i know i [TS]

01:41:06   was following all this stuff and Twitter [TS]

01:41:07   and reading about it is depressing and [TS]

01:41:08   it is upsetting and that could be [TS]

01:41:10   conscious decision not to talk about it [TS]

01:41:12   but like if you accidentally end up [TS]

01:41:13   saying something that could be read as a [TS]

01:41:15   race sure I understand but people will [TS]

01:41:17   be like even if they don't personally [TS]

01:41:18   know that you didn't mean it as a racer [TS]

01:41:20   doesn't matter what you mean all that [TS]

01:41:21   matters is what you ended up saying and [TS]

01:41:23   how it might be interpreted and then you [TS]

01:41:24   are adding a tiny pebble to the jet [TS]

01:41:26   gigantic wall in the context of this [TS]

01:41:28   issue and it's very difficult when you [TS]

01:41:32   do something we could have negative [TS]

01:41:33   consequences [TS]

01:41:34   none of which you intended or might not [TS]

01:41:36   even understand right and so you totally [TS]

01:41:38   would feel attackers like how can i have [TS]

01:41:40   done something wrong when I didn't mean [TS]

01:41:42   to do anything wrong and I don't even [TS]

01:41:44   understand the wrongness that i did it's [TS]

01:41:45   still possible still totally possible to [TS]

01:41:47   do something everyone probably wrong but [TS]

01:41:49   not have meant anything wrong be totally [TS]

01:41:51   in agreement with the people who are [TS]

01:41:52   identifying the wrong thing that you did [TS]

01:41:54   and like like that is possible it's hard [TS]

01:41:56   to square that and so like I think [TS]

01:41:58   you're still holding onto the idea that [TS]

01:41:59   someone is calling you a bad person like [TS]

01:42:01   nobody is right [TS]

01:42:02   nobody's saying that there is a point [TS]

01:42:04   that we're just that we you know that we [TS]

01:42:06   stumbled in a mistake and maybe they're [TS]

01:42:08   being more harsh on us than you think [TS]

01:42:10   they should like if you spend your time [TS]

01:42:12   trying to defend your motivations you're [TS]

01:42:14   never going to think about your actions [TS]

01:42:15   in a broader context and it's like it's [TS]

01:42:17   counterproductive like you're only [TS]

01:42:19   you're only gonna go more distant that [TS]

01:42:21   way rather than trying to figure out [TS]

01:42:23   pata gotta [TS]

01:42:25   how to come closer together whatever and [TS]

01:42:26   it people are gonna be upset they have [TS]

01:42:28   the right to be upset that like it since [TS]

01:42:30   there's no reason I well now i'm going [TS]

01:42:32   to double down on my unintentional [TS]

01:42:35   mistake by trying to make intentional [TS]

01:42:37   lines right it's like you know it's like [TS]

01:42:38   it's like if you learned that like a [TS]

01:42:40   word that you used was actually like [TS]

01:42:43   racist and you didn't know that [TS]

01:42:45   oh yeah totally same thing yeah it's [TS]

01:42:47   like it's worth knowing that it's worth [TS]

01:42:50   learning that is what I'm telling you [TS]

01:42:51   that [TS]

01:42:52   and even though you didn't mean to be [TS]

01:42:53   racist or you don't have those feelings [TS]

01:42:55   you because you didn't even know the [TS]

01:42:57   origins like is right it was just right [TS]

01:42:59   but it's still it's still shouldn't use [TS]

01:43:01   it and so it's like it you know that the [TS]

01:43:03   the most so well just thing is due to [TS]

01:43:05   thank the person for telling you but [TS]

01:43:06   human things they were you saying I'm a [TS]

01:43:08   racist like that's how everyone feels [TS]

01:43:09   like you should know i'm not you know me [TS]

01:43:11   thats that's absurd and now you know [TS]

01:43:14   like yeah it has ultimate example of [TS]

01:43:16   this is the word spaz which in American [TS]

01:43:18   English is not or to any spending circle [TS]

01:43:21   I've ever traveled in anyway it's not [TS]

01:43:23   derogatory whereas in British English [TS]

01:43:24   it's hugely derogatory and stronger and [TS]

01:43:28   was able to send English yeah it's a [TS]

01:43:30   problematic it you know it's like when I [TS]

01:43:32   was commissioned to like lay more [TS]

01:43:34   gameplay like you're horribly named open [TS]

01:43:36   source project things that many people [TS]

01:43:38   have never thought about including me [TS]

01:43:40   until fairly recently [TS]

01:43:41   yeah sure you just you just didn't know [TS]

01:43:43   but yeah like someone pointing it out to [TS]

01:43:46   you it you know depending on how they do [TS]

01:43:48   it or whatever like it's not on them to [TS]

01:43:50   like break it to you gently it's on you [TS]

01:43:52   to figure out how to separate your [TS]

01:43:53   feelings about are you saying I you know [TS]

01:43:55   I hate disabled people from the idea [TS]

01:43:58   that this thing you've been doing [TS]

01:44:00   unintentionally has an effect on other [TS]

01:44:02   people you might not have realized so [TS]

01:44:04   incorporate that into your decisions [TS]

01:44:06   about whether you're going to do that [TS]

01:44:07   going forward right that's why I've [TS]

01:44:09   tried to remove that word from my [TS]

01:44:11   vernacular because i don't want to be [TS]

01:44:12   offensive [TS]

01:44:13   it's real and it's really hard to do [TS]

01:44:14   like I don't know trying to remove [TS]

01:44:17   things from regulators here myself doing [TS]

01:44:18   them all the time [TS]

01:44:19   oh yeah you know trying like we know [TS]

01:44:21   we're trying but all people know is what [TS]

01:44:23   we say so it's gonna be like when [TS]

01:44:24   someone says you actually let something [TS]

01:44:26   slip you like well try and man I mean [TS]

01:44:28   that's true but would also like you'd [TS]

01:44:30   like if if you're trying it's still [TS]

01:44:33   right for somebody to call you at every [TS]

01:44:34   time you mess up exactly like it you [TS]

01:44:37   just have to just have to you [TS]

01:44:38   no separate constructive criticism is a [TS]

01:44:40   two-way street like people can criticize [TS]

01:44:42   you and unconstructive way and you can [TS]

01:44:44   take constructive things from it and [TS]

01:44:46   people can criticize you a constructive [TS]

01:44:48   way and you can you know not handle it [TS]

01:44:51   well and not take it in a constructive [TS]

01:44:53   manner like so it's yeah it helps if [TS]

01:44:56   it's constructive coming in but either [TS]

01:44:59   way you can mess it up on your end by [TS]

01:45:01   deciding that you your your heart [TS]

01:45:04   feelings are more important than [TS]

01:45:06   whatever the issue is that's being [TS]

01:45:07   highlighted it and I think that's [TS]

01:45:08   exactly the the hit i fell into is I I i [TS]

01:45:12   personally don't think that the [TS]

01:45:14   complaint that was lodged terribly [TS]

01:45:17   constructively but i absolutely agree [TS]

01:45:20   with you that I did in to some degree [TS]

01:45:22   still am letting my emotions get in the [TS]

01:45:25   way of the bigger picture which is we [TS]

01:45:27   should have we should phrase things [TS]

01:45:30   better and or corrected each other after [TS]

01:45:32   having this phrase them and then the [TS]

01:45:33   reason i didn't notice because it you [TS]

01:45:35   know i have that assume context that not [TS]

01:45:37   everyone does but what also made it even [TS]

01:45:40   worse was this was someone i feel like i [TS]

01:45:42   know and i felt like a bazooka was used [TS]

01:45:46   when it wasn't absolutely necessary [TS]

01:45:49   which here again is feelings [TS]

01:45:51   no i mean like a you know to me like you [TS]

01:45:53   know that the fact that a friend of ours [TS]

01:45:55   said it is is almost irrelevant you know [TS]

01:45:58   that it's if anything that's what [TS]

01:46:00   friends are for start singing the song [TS]

01:46:02   yeah like if anything like if a random [TS]

01:46:04   person who I didn't know they called us [TS]

01:46:06   out on it i might not have taken it [TS]

01:46:08   seriously they did but I didn't take it [TS]

01:46:11   in a hurtful I i was surprised but I was [TS]

01:46:14   it was more just like hide and think [TS]

01:46:16   about that way at all and yeah it was [TS]

01:46:19   you know it's like when you're called an [TS]

01:46:20   unintentional racism or something it's [TS]

01:46:22   like I wasn't thinking along those lines [TS]

01:46:24   at all but now that you mention it yeah [TS]

01:46:27   I didn't really say that very well and [TS]

01:46:30   and so again it's it's worth being told [TS]

01:46:33   in a way that you will notice and it's [TS]

01:46:34   worth correcting it and that's why you [TS]

01:46:36   should do this to your friends like we [TS]

01:46:37   have to take it more seriously from [TS]

01:46:39   their friends the bad side of that is [TS]

01:46:40   that many people when a friend does it [TS]

01:46:42   like that's the end of the friendship [TS]

01:46:43   and World War now and I hate that person [TS]

01:46:45   never speak to them again that is not [TS]

01:46:46   taking construct like both of you like [TS]

01:46:48   trees [TS]

01:46:49   yeah you can deliver that bad [TS]

01:46:51   on one end and it can be taken badly on [TS]

01:46:53   the other and you could do one or the [TS]

01:46:54   like it can end badly many different [TS]

01:46:56   ways but it's difficult but you'd like [TS]

01:46:58   this is what you want your friends to do [TS]

01:46:59   because again if a stranger lots of [TS]

01:47:01   things that strangers say you just let [TS]

01:47:03   it roll off your back because like that [TS]

01:47:04   especially that's just a skill you have [TS]

01:47:05   to have become strangers will say all [TS]

01:47:07   sorts of awful things to you mom but [TS]

01:47:09   this is what your friends are there to [TS]

01:47:11   do for you and if you don't have that [TS]

01:47:13   kind of relationship with your friends [TS]

01:47:14   in either direction like if you hang out [TS]

01:47:16   with your friends your friends are [TS]

01:47:17   constantly making racist jokes and you [TS]

01:47:18   do a fake laugh but you don't believe [TS]

01:47:20   any of that like it's not on the same [TS]

01:47:22   you're not on the same page with that [TS]

01:47:23   but you feel like you can't call them on [TS]

01:47:25   it like I don't know that feel like [TS]

01:47:27   that's it that's a bad situation to be [TS]

01:47:28   in [TS]

01:47:29   you know it's it like express yourself [TS]

01:47:33   but I explain how it makes you feel when [TS]

01:47:36   you're making racist jokes and that's [TS]

01:47:37   the end of the friendship like I feel [TS]

01:47:39   like that's the appropriate course of [TS]

01:47:41   events rather than to just you know that [TS]

01:47:43   if you soak in that environment long [TS]

01:47:44   enough you will become normalized and [TS]

01:47:46   you like it's not a big deal i have this [TS]

01:47:48   person was a great person loves kids and [TS]

01:47:50   yeah it makes racist joke sometimes but [TS]

01:47:51   who cares it's like that's that's how we [TS]

01:47:53   end up where we are you can't stand up [TS]

01:47:55   with that stuff normalized yeah and you [TS]

01:47:58   know several years ago now i watched [TS]

01:48:01   this thing that ended up becoming very [TS]

01:48:04   popular was Randy pouches last lecture [TS]

01:48:07   and probably brought it up in the past [TS]

01:48:09   and it was a no a professor from [TS]

01:48:13   Carnegie Mellon and actually believed [TS]

01:48:14   had been a instructor evaa as well and [TS]

01:48:18   he did this this left he will use [TS]

01:48:21   diagnosed with terminal cancer in and [TS]

01:48:22   did this thing that was supposed to be a [TS]

01:48:24   last lecture really for his kids he [TS]

01:48:27   talked about in that last lecture to [TS]

01:48:30   your point that when people stop [TS]

01:48:33   correcting you that's a really crummy [TS]

01:48:35   place to be and as Radiesse husband / [TS]

01:48:38   that's the dire exchange i do agree with [TS]

01:48:41   what you said and I am thankful for the [TS]

01:48:43   correction even if I wish it had been [TS]

01:48:46   delivered differently and i wish i had [TS]

01:48:47   responded differently [TS]

01:48:48   yeah me too although i have less run [TS]

01:48:51   without was delivered and I didn't [TS]

01:48:52   respond so in other words you handled it [TS]

01:48:54   a lot better than I did but your [TS]

01:48:55   response responded now I I didn't [TS]

01:48:57   respond in the moment they're also [TS]

01:48:59   because i missed the moment when it [TS]

01:49:00   happened but me to actually i was like i [TS]

01:49:02   like i didn't even have twitter open [TS]

01:49:03   while this is [TS]

01:49:04   going on in the night I caught up like [TS]

01:49:05   our leader like oh no this happened [TS]

01:49:07   yeah yeah anyway no but sometimes not [TS]

01:49:10   responding in the moment is the right [TS]

01:49:11   thing to do to give yourself time to [TS]

01:49:13   digest didn't get distance before you [TS]

01:49:14   say things they regret more things that [TS]

01:49:15   you were going anyway [TS]

01:49:17   oh yeah i highly recommend using an app [TS]

01:49:18   on your Mac to automatically quit [TS]

01:49:20   Twitter battery on a frequent basis [TS]

01:49:22   it really does help quite a lot in a lot [TS]

01:49:24   of ways in life i'm waiting for it to be [TS]

01:49:26   available the mac app star [TS]