178: Mama Needs That Pokémon

0:00:00to go back to your car analogy that's

0:00:02terrible gonna cut it

0:00:03well no but you gotta I was gonna say

0:00:05bad things about your analogy and I just

0:00:07gonna edit out of existence

0:00:08yeah I always ended at jokes don't land

0:00:10that's the past the privilege of being

0:00:11the editor right so we should start with

0:00:15some follow-up as always there are

0:00:17approximately seven hackintosh users and

0:00:21on the planet and every single one of

0:00:23them is written us to tell us how it's

0:00:25possible to get everything to work

0:00:26asterisk dagger double dagger double

0:00:29asterisk got some people also writing in

0:00:32saying oh I've had you know all your

0:00:34worries are founded i have a hackintosh

0:00:37and I ran into all the problems you

0:00:38described it's kind of a pain brother

0:00:39people like a lot of pain at all i got

0:00:41everything to work is going to follow

0:00:42right guides and do the right things and

0:00:44flash the right stuff and wait for the

0:00:46drivers to be updated with each update

0:00:47and it's not a problem moving these are

0:00:49two sets of people describing the exact

0:00:52same situation is generated from one

0:00:54person's perspective all you just do

0:00:56this series of steps and everything is

0:00:57fine and the other person's perspective

0:00:59all you got to do these series of steps

0:01:00before everything is fine like it's the

0:01:02same situation right just all depends on

0:01:05how you look at it and if it's something

0:01:06you enjoy doing or something you would

0:01:08find a hassle if we could kind of pick a

0:01:10theme of what we heard we were pretty

0:01:13much correct about the trade-offs about

0:01:14it is a pain sometimes for most people

0:01:17how much of a painting that being for

0:01:19you depends a lot on your component

0:01:21choices and that if you follow these

0:01:24guides and if you choose like exactly

0:01:26the components they say if you don't

0:01:28have like special needs and requirements

0:01:30so that I have to make this other Wi-Fi

0:01:33card work because that's the 1i have or

0:01:35whatever else like if you're willing to

0:01:36buy exactly there are components you're

0:01:38gonna find all new components to do this

0:01:40it's probably a lot easier and you'll

0:01:42have an easier time with it but if

0:01:43you're trying to get it running on

0:01:45components you already had for other

0:01:47reasons you might have a hard time I

0:01:49think that's pretty good summary

0:01:50actually Charles Perry wrote in and he

0:01:54had said hey you know you guys joked

0:01:56about apple store employees not knowing

0:01:58about the mac mini that actually

0:02:00happened to me in summer 2015 i was at

0:02:03the apple store and I told the sales

0:02:04person that I wanted to buy a mac mini

0:02:06and I got a blank stare and reply the

0:02:08salesperson had never heard of it for

0:02:11real

0:02:12so that is the thing that has actually

0:02:14happened

0:02:15that's awesome i always wonder about the

0:02:18training they get like I thought every

0:02:19apples above it used to do it like they

0:02:21would fly off to cupertino and give you

0:02:23this whole training course and I could

0:02:25be briefed on Apple's entire line and

0:02:26it's a type of thing where you're not

0:02:28gonna remember everything they tell you

0:02:30they're gonna fill your head with a

0:02:31bunch of information and especially if

0:02:32you're new to a ball you you can't

0:02:34remember all the details but i would

0:02:35think that for getting an entire line of

0:02:37computers exist especially when apple's

0:02:40mac product line doesn't contain that

0:02:41many products in the grand scheme of

0:02:43things would be think that wouldn't

0:02:44happen so I think they must have dropped

0:02:46their training a little bit for the

0:02:47floor staff for the salespeople well i

0:02:50mean this is this is what happens with

0:02:52every retail place you know like the

0:02:55Apple stores are really big there's lots

0:02:57of them and they have to hire lots of

0:02:58staff from what we've heard rumblings of

0:03:01here and there it seems like maybe they

0:03:02don't pay as well as they used to or

0:03:04whatever reason they have a hard time

0:03:06you know attracting an indoor training

0:03:09high quality staff consistently to end

0:03:12up getting like yes there are some

0:03:13people there who really know their stuff

0:03:14but a lot of them don't because that's

0:03:16just the reality of hiring a massive

0:03:18retail staff these days indeed all right

0:03:22we should also talk about the crazy

0:03:24weird mouse that I believe John had

0:03:26brought up last episode

0:03:28yeah i think it was called the iso point

0:03:29track bar from outbound back from the

0:03:31eighties well this design apparently

0:03:33lives on probably because they bought

0:03:35the patents for it or the patents

0:03:37expired because it was so long ago in

0:03:38contour designs roller mouse which is

0:03:42the thing that you can buy for your

0:03:43computer today apparently and it looks

0:03:46like kind of one of those keyboard wrist

0:03:48rest things that you should never ever

0:03:50actually rest your wrists on it's got

0:03:52some buttons and the right along the top

0:03:55edge of it it's got the little roller

0:03:56ball thing you can roll back and forth

0:03:58like a little pencil for vertical and

0:04:00slide left and i'm not quite sure if the

0:04:01bar itself slides if it's just like

0:04:03touch sensitive or whatever there's a

0:04:05youtube video of someone messing with it

0:04:08and doesn't still doesn't quite make it

0:04:09clear because youtube videos not very

0:04:12illuminating but anyway this still

0:04:14exists

0:04:15youtube is very good at that youtube is

0:04:16very good at having lots of videos that

0:04:19report to review a product but don't

0:04:21actually tell you the useful information

0:04:23about that product they just kind of

0:04:25like

0:04:25hold it up and spin around or unbox it

0:04:27and they don't actually try it or show

0:04:30you or do anything useful

0:04:31not that I'm complaining but you need

0:04:32that you need to have different camera

0:04:34angles like what you need to do it like

0:04:35if you don't understand how this product

0:04:36works which I you know I have some

0:04:38questions like oh does the bar slide

0:04:39back what you need like close-ups and

0:04:41like macro photography and cutaways and

0:04:43if you can't just have one continuous

0:04:45shot of a person sitting in a desk you

0:04:47know connecting it to the keyboard and

0:04:49showing it's got a little feet and it's

0:04:50got a little connectors got a little

0:04:51this but just like you're too far away i

0:04:53can't see what you're doing with your

0:04:54fingers you need to need a multi-camera

0:04:57multi-shot edited sequence instead of

0:04:59just one big long take usually when I'm

0:05:01review when i'm looking for product

0:05:03reviews on youtube for a product i'm

0:05:05considering buying at least half the

0:05:07videos i find i suspect i'm the first

0:05:10person to ever have watched them

0:05:12regardless what the view counts that

0:05:13does must all be bought

0:05:15I think I'm the only person who's ever

0:05:16watched it including the Creator I don't

0:05:18think they've even watch it because if

0:05:20they watched it they would notice all

0:05:22the problems or at least some of the

0:05:23problems like hey you can barely hear

0:05:25what they're saying or you know you

0:05:27could have cut out like this entire

0:05:28segment or unfortunately most commonly

0:05:31this entire video serves no purpose and

0:05:34adds nothing to the world I'm sorry

0:05:35well son I have really high production

0:05:38values we can tell they really nailed

0:05:39like the lighting and it's crisp and the

0:05:42audio is really good but but they didn't

0:05:45actually provide good product revisit an

0:05:46athlete the close-ups and and different

0:05:48test

0:05:49none of those people review microphones

0:05:51yeah the montelucia the most fun thing

0:05:53is what I'm looking for

0:05:55not specifically videos but usually it's

0:05:57what i find for like questions I have a

0:06:00household stuff like how to repair the

0:06:03self raising like how to repair record

0:06:07this blind raising mechanism thing or

0:06:09something or how to fix a flapper on

0:06:10your toilet or whatever and if you're

0:06:12looking for like this specific make and

0:06:14model and seeing how summary what I was

0:06:16doing that replacing the battery in my

0:06:17key fob or whatever right

0:06:20those are the best videos because these

0:06:21are not professional youtube races just

0:06:23a person who just says look I've decided

0:06:26to film myself doing this thing and like

0:06:28they're holding their camera under the

0:06:30chin against their chests tend to film

0:06:33their two hands at the exactly the

0:06:35camera is a candy bar phone from 1997

0:06:38and and they're talking really weird

0:06:41because the chain is holding the camera

0:06:42while their fingers fumble and i love

0:06:45these people you know why because if

0:06:47they didn't do that terrible video they

0:06:49would be zero videos on the entire

0:06:50internet like I just want to see one

0:06:52other living human do this and they do

0:06:54it like all that explains it like it's

0:06:56so much better to have a video than no

0:06:58video so i would encourage everybody

0:07:00that if you're even remotely thinking of

0:07:02putting a video about how you repair the

0:07:04specific toilet seat that you have for

0:07:06some specific eighties toilet do it put

0:07:08it up online

0:07:09nobody if it has five years it doesn't

0:07:11matter if i'm one of those five I'm like

0:07:13thank you thank you for putting this

0:07:15online because it's so hard to find any

0:07:17information about certain things i love

0:07:19the fact that people are doing

0:07:20especially about home stuff are doing

0:07:22home repairs and filming themselves

0:07:24doing it and filming their mistakes and

0:07:25I don't care the audio is horrible i

0:07:27don't care that it's all blurry I don't

0:07:28care the camera shaking i wish there

0:07:30were more of them now I mean I'm just

0:07:32saying like if you're going to review a

0:07:33microphone

0:07:34what is the one thing that somebody

0:07:36watching that review might be interested

0:07:39in that video containing an audio sample

0:07:42from the microphone go look at it like

0:07:44pick a microphone go to youtube and

0:07:46search for video reviewing that

0:07:48microphone and see how many you can find

0:07:50it actually contain an audio sample of

0:07:53the person talking to that microphone

0:07:54let alone what would be more useful is

0:07:56maybe comparing it back to back to like

0:07:59one other microphone maybe the one built

0:08:02into the camera or the phone would be

0:08:03good enough just compare it to something

0:08:05else but you can't even find samples of

0:08:07people talking into the mic

0:08:09I cannot believe like a man that I'm in

0:08:12the wrong business

0:08:13got to take over YouTube but i bet they

0:08:15show you the microphone coming

0:08:16out-of-the-box they show you all the

0:08:17different outfits you can put on the

0:08:19microphone and show you show you all the

0:08:22articulations and different points I'd

0:08:24like it's like the toy rabbit videos of

0:08:27template upon which all product reviews

0:08:29on YouTube are based and it's probably

0:08:30okay for if you're unwrapping toys but

0:08:34probably not good for a product that

0:08:36actually is supposed to do something is

0:08:37difficult like especially for something

0:08:39like an input device or a chair or

0:08:42something like that you r it's not

0:08:43actually easy to illustrate in video all

0:08:46the different features because you do

0:08:48need lots of weird camera angles and

0:08:50camera rigs to get lighting in the

0:08:51place to sort of convey the you probably

0:08:54diagrams at a certain point like with

0:08:56overlaid on top of the video it's not

0:08:57it's not an easy gig response to tonight

0:09:00by pingdom start monitoring your

0:09:02websites and servers today at pingie.com

0:09:04/ ATP get a 14-day free trial and when

0:09:08you enter code ATP check out you get

0:09:09twenty percent off your first invoice

0:09:11thing that makes the web faster and more

0:09:13reliable for everyone by offering

0:09:15powerful easy-to-use monitoring tools

0:09:17and services for anybody with a website

0:09:19you can for example monitor availability

0:09:21and performance of your server database

0:09:22or site for more than 70 global test

0:09:25server that Kingdom they can emulate

0:09:26visits to your site check availability

0:09:28as often as every minute and they can do

0:09:30things like check for cookies they can

0:09:32use cookies to log in they can check for

0:09:34substrate in the site you can customize

0:09:35it all sorts of ways now developers know

0:09:38that was becoming more sophisticated and

0:09:41are often made up of several

0:09:41dependencies and one dependency goes

0:09:43down or get slow it affects the whole

0:09:45site so you can also monitor separate

0:09:47parts of your site with with kingdom

0:09:49things like contact forms ecommerce

0:09:51checkouts databases searches logging in

0:09:54whole lot more stuff breaks all the time

0:09:57on the internet every month thing to

0:09:58text more than 13 million averages so

0:10:00when no matter how big or small your

0:10:02presence is you really need to monitor

0:10:04its availability and performance i use

0:10:06pingdom I've used it now for eight years

0:10:09way longer than since they become a

0:10:11sponsor and I've been very very happy

0:10:13with I used to monitor all of my stuff

0:10:15for the last eight years and it's

0:10:16wonderful here to give me your own

0:10:18monitor and optional conditions to check

0:10:20for or they can just check to see if it

0:10:22up when it when they did an outage you

0:10:24are immediately alerted in all sorts of

0:10:26ways you can customize you can get text

0:10:28messages push notification emails or any

0:10:30combination of those are you know it's

0:10:32just a few of them maybe maybe emails

0:10:34for less critical stuff and text for

0:10:35really critical stuff and then you can

0:10:37fix the problem before it becomes a much

0:10:39bigger and more costly outage you should

0:10:41not be learning if your site is down

0:10:43from people on Twitter you should be the

0:10:45first person to know so you can fix it

0:10:48before too many customers too many

0:10:49readers see it

0:10:50check out today go to pingdom calm / ATP

0:10:53for 14-day free trial at twenty percent

0:10:56off your first invoice with offer code

0:10:58ATP thanks to ping them for sponsoring

0:11:01all right there is another item to

0:11:06follow but I told myself i wouldn't

0:11:07bring up but I don't want to get yelled

0:11:08at later there's a bullet this is

0:11:10casey's ongoing I'm a close which I

0:11:12don't want to talk about because i don't

0:11:13want the internet telling me about how

0:11:14wrong I am about everything so we can

0:11:16move along

0:11:16oh we already talked to you about it in

0:11:18slack but I think we need to talk about

0:11:20it again i really want to talk about

0:11:23this you need to bring your imac for

0:11:24repair and you won't know I thought yes

0:11:27that's actually the yes that's the

0:11:28summary is that so how can I could

0:11:32briefly recap this so let me put on my

0:11:34summarize the chief summarizer in chief

0:11:35hat so a couple episodes ago I sounded

0:11:39like garbage because my imac croaked in

0:11:42the middle of recording no it did not

0:11:44involve water or any other liquid Thank

0:11:46You the entire internet for making that

0:11:47joke anyway so it croaked in the middle

0:11:50of recording it hard froze rebooted

0:11:52itself that this had happened I had

0:11:54noticed from time to time but it had

0:11:57never been during recording so it didn't

0:11:59really make that big of a difference the

0:12:01only thing I lost out on was plex

0:12:03couldn't see my media files because it

0:12:05wouldn't auto reconnect to the synology

0:12:07so anyway so this happens suddenly I

0:12:09actually need to take action on things

0:12:11because it affected the show and that's

0:12:13no bueno so i tried to figure out what

0:12:17to do i did a hardware test and after

0:12:20much cajoling from a from mr. siracusa

0:12:23it showed no problems i think im gonna

0:12:26try one or two other things but what I

0:12:28ended up doing was I swapped out my mac

0:12:32sales ram i had gotten 32 gigs of ram

0:12:35for this thing the moment i bought it

0:12:36and I put in the eight gigs of OEM ram

0:12:39and that's what's running it right now

0:12:40and it seemed to me

0:12:42empirically that it's a little go about

0:12:46a week before it has one of these locks

0:12:48and reboots itself and up until this

0:12:51morning it had been eight days since I

0:12:54had any such problem this morning I went

0:12:57to not unsleep it but you know that the

0:13:00screen it's slept with the the machine

0:13:02was still on so i hit the spacebar on my

0:13:05keyboard in order to wake the thing up

0:13:08and the backlight on the screen came on

0:13:09but I could see nothing i ended up

0:13:11forcing a rebooted hard reboot and look

0:13:14the console when it came back up and it

0:13:16had a bazillion messages i don't have a

0:13:18hand in front of me but something along

0:13:19the lines of I can tell that the GPU

0:13:22drivers not responding and that's

0:13:23probably not good

0:13:25so my hopeful and I person I stand by my

0:13:29going theory is that it's the non OEM

0:13:32ram that's pissing it off and causing

0:13:34problems but I have nothing but

0:13:36anecdotal evidence to go on and John and

0:13:40marco both are insistent that I take

0:13:42this thing to the genius bar but I

0:13:43really really really don't want to

0:13:45because it is a royal pain to bring it

0:13:49there let alone be gone but you haven't

0:13:51been gone for like a week or more only

0:13:53for genius to say jesus never happened

0:13:54to me everything looks good here here

0:13:56you go

0:13:57come back if it happens again so I don't

0:13:59wanna bother with it and i will i would

0:14:00rather just deal with the eight gigs of

0:14:02ram and then maybe start whining it at

0:14:05mac sales or other world computing

0:14:06whatever they call themselves wine at

0:14:09them and see if i get replacement sticks

0:14:11if that really does seem to be the

0:14:12problem but what hold on if you if

0:14:15you're gonna keep the owc ram out of the

0:14:18computer and going to have this problem

0:14:20occasionally you know it's not the room

0:14:22what exactly do you expect odeon owc to

0:14:24do about that because you know but you

0:14:27just said you're so I still think it's

0:14:28the ram but it just froze when the ram

0:14:29wasn't in it

0:14:30how does that even has any work no no it

0:14:33was a different kind of freeze it was a

0:14:34very different kind of free blacks

0:14:36matter serious i'm not trying to be

0:14:38funny

0:14:39gotta get so many you are being very

0:14:41funny I I understand different kind of

0:14:43fries with a problem it's another thing

0:14:44that your Mac shouldn't be doing right

0:14:48like especially since you're not doing

0:14:49anything with you don't have any weird

0:14:51programs that you're running or you're

0:14:53not stressing is just sitting there idle

0:14:54essentially and you come back to it you

0:14:56can't get it to wake up and you see a

0:14:57bunch of GPU messages and the thing

0:14:59yeah but that was the first time I'd

0:15:01ever seen anything in the console any of

0:15:02the other times locked up there was it

0:15:04was like it it was running and turning

0:15:06and chugging along fine and then next

0:15:08thing you know I co boot time you're

0:15:10grossly overblowing the effect this

0:15:12problem house on me with the exception

0:15:14that one episodes I do genuinely feel

0:15:16deeply sorry about with the exception

0:15:18that one episode it has never really

0:15:19cause any problem for me and I think

0:15:22that today's freeze was just a fluke of

0:15:24modern computing don't know this doesn't

0:15:26happen

0:15:27that that is not that is not the

0:15:30behavior of healthy hardware that is not

0:15:32normal that is not something you should

0:15:34just consider you know what that's

0:15:35acceptable i'm going to live with that

0:15:36forever know and especially because like

0:15:38you know this is gonna run a warranty at

0:15:41some point if you didn't get

0:15:42applications going to be in what six

0:15:43months like it

0:15:45this is not normal this is this is not

0:15:48supposed to happen this is not

0:15:49acceptable you something in there is

0:15:51broken and it is most likely not the ram

0:15:54that is not currently in the computer

0:15:57when this problem is still happening it

0:15:58was a different problem

0:16:00well it might have reacted worse with

0:16:01that ram maybe it sounds like there's

0:16:03something wrong with the GPU or the

0:16:05logic board whether or not it is worse

0:16:08with the odbc ramen it

0:16:10the fact is this problem exists without

0:16:12the odbc remnant so therefore that ram

0:16:16is not the problem that ran might be a

0:16:18problem but it is not the problem here

0:16:20I'm assuming you google the error

0:16:22message because like to rule out

0:16:24software type of bugs or it's like oh

0:16:26you don't announce to you this version

0:16:28of OS 10 ships or macro and still almost

0:16:30Enright got this transition is gonna be

0:16:32rough shirts with a driver for your

0:16:36particular GPU that is flaky in this way

0:16:38usually googling for the console message

0:16:41will lend you a hundred people asking

0:16:43the same question on Apple's discussion

0:16:44forums none of which are actually

0:16:46getting an answer but then you can kind

0:16:47of like ballpark like look at this is

0:16:49the thing that's happening to a lot of

0:16:51people you know as judged by like

0:16:53whatever ratio you know commands people

0:16:56to go on to apple discussion forum to

0:16:58talk about like for every one person you

0:17:00see there there's probably like hundreds

0:17:01more who don't know where this

0:17:02government forms are but I've had

0:17:04situations like this and it doesn't mean

0:17:06that the software problem you see other

0:17:07people having it but occasionally you

0:17:09get lucky you'll see that oh actually

0:17:10I'm someone who knows whether an apple

0:17:13employee or not and there's a bug in

0:17:15this driver for this and video GPU or

0:17:17whatever is something you have in years

0:17:18but anyway and that's what the problem

0:17:22is and the software update either has

0:17:24fixed it or we'll fix it or whatever

0:17:26like so it's still conceivable that GPU

0:17:28like that freeze thing could be a

0:17:31software issue right the hard rebooting

0:17:33with no messages and the console

0:17:34definitely looks like a hardware thing

0:17:36like you said you haven't had

0:17:37that whether i'm out who knows but

0:17:38either way either of these things I

0:17:40think are a problem so maybe maybe you

0:17:45kind of convince me with your reticence

0:17:46to bring this thing and maybe wait for

0:17:48the next one the next fries and see that

0:17:51with the ram still out like you get a

0:17:52repeat of the GPU thing or do you get

0:17:54the hard reset e-type thing I still

0:17:57think it's weird that the ram test would

0:17:58pass maybe the ramp tester not

0:17:59particularly thorough you need to run

0:18:00those tests like go through every bite

0:18:02of ram like hundreds of times and runs

0:18:04for days at a time to really test it i'm

0:18:06not entirely sure but anyway all this is

0:18:08to say that both Marco and I have 5k

0:18:10imax and ours just don't do this

0:18:12so you shouldn't you shouldn't accept

0:18:14this is a state of being and I you

0:18:15should resign yourself to take this big

0:18:16heavy computer in three times not once

0:18:18because the first time you take it and

0:18:20if you're lucky they'll find something

0:18:21wrong but they're probably send it back

0:18:23to you and said it's fine now you have

0:18:24to wait for it to happen again you have

0:18:25to bring it again they say it's fine

0:18:27then you have to wait for it to happen

0:18:29again then you bring again after they

0:18:30denied you three times then you get a

0:18:34satisfaction of some kind or you get to

0:18:36be a more indignant about it

0:18:37okay well let me just make a couple

0:18:39things very plain because apparently

0:18:40nobody's listening to me

0:18:41I did the apple hardware diagnostic test

0:18:44or whatever it is called when you start

0:18:46the computer and mash down on the D key

0:18:47it i did this with the owc ramen and it

0:18:50said everything's peachy keen

0:18:52every everything was fine that's what

0:18:54I'm saying like maybe it runs like a

0:18:55Wimpy ram testing rightful Ramdass takes

0:18:57really really long time so it doesn't

0:18:59you know what because I'm suspicious of

0:19:01the ramp to write so maybe the a barber

0:19:03test didn't test it thoroughly or maybe

0:19:05it didn't trigger the problem or

0:19:06whatever but like with this kind of

0:19:08intermittent problem that happened you

0:19:10know you get like a weird crash it used

0:19:12to be every few days now it's like once

0:19:14a week right

0:19:15yep used to be about once a week once a

0:19:18week it has happened once which it to be

0:19:21in to be fair was about eight days after

0:19:23i put the old the stock ram in it has

0:19:25happened once and on the surface that

0:19:27looks like it's probably the same crash

0:19:28but like that earlier I'd never ever

0:19:31ever seen any console messages

0:19:33previously and i should add that it

0:19:35would always just reboot itself and this

0:19:37time it did not it was it seemed like it

0:19:39was fine until it powered on the

0:19:41backlight and then it just could it

0:19:42wouldn't show anything on screen so i

0:19:45don't think this is the same thing it

0:19:47either way these are these are two

0:19:49different symptoms

0:19:50of some kind of underlying problem that

0:19:53is probably the same problem with the

0:19:55breath at ODC ramen it so it probably is

0:19:57not the ramp it's probably a problem

0:19:58with apples hardware in here and

0:20:00normally functioning computers don't

0:20:03behave this way normally functioning max

0:20:05don't behave this way even max running

0:20:07betas don't behave this way tips on the

0:20:09chat room says his beta hardware doesn't

0:20:11behave this way something is wrong

0:20:14whether or not the hardware test passes

0:20:17or fails it does not say there isn't a

0:20:20problem it just says whatever that is

0:20:22testing for is or isn't failing at that

0:20:25moment what that means to you is that

0:20:27this will be annoying to get fixed but

0:20:29that doesn't mean there isn't a problem

0:20:30it just means the problem didn't happen

0:20:33during that test so inappropriate

0:20:34analogy to the situation is on my car

0:20:37every great once in awhile this stereo

0:20:40decides to turn itself off and then turn

0:20:42itself back on it is mildly inconvenient

0:20:45mildly inconvenient and then one time

0:20:47one time I was in the middle of a

0:20:49podcast and I had no idea where I wasn't

0:20:52that podcast in terms of like the time

0:20:54stamp or anything and then it restarted

0:20:56itself and i had to start the podcast

0:20:57over because I just couldn't find where

0:20:59i was in the podcast whatever reason

0:21:00that's the analogy I'm not taking my car

0:21:03to the shop for them to say oh we can't

0:21:05reproduce it four different times just

0:21:07so they can say oh we can't reproduce i

0:21:10do not have the confidence but there's

0:21:12no reasonable hope of the BMW or

0:21:14whatever fix a problem like there's no

0:21:16reason to hope in the Apple Pete that

0:21:17all gone yes no there is a reasonable

0:21:19hope that you will get some kind of

0:21:21satisfaction from apple that I know I've

0:21:22dealt with these problems before cardio

0:21:24forget it you have some electronic

0:21:25grandmother your car

0:21:26there's no hope I don't even bother like

0:21:28maybe try together once but it's not

0:21:29like they have they don't deal with

0:21:31electronics like they can fix your

0:21:32mechanical parts but in general unless

0:21:33there's some sort of well we flashed

0:21:35with the manufacturers latest ball they

0:21:36have no idea about the electronics in

0:21:37your car and have that stuff doesn't

0:21:39work right even when it's working

0:21:40entirely according to you know like it's

0:21:42working perfectly this is exactly i was

0:21:43designed just filled with bugs that are

0:21:45never getting it fixed but for hardware

0:21:48like I had something like thunderbolt

0:21:50display which is really weird and flaky

0:21:51and had to keep bringing in bring it in

0:21:53but eventually I think eventually you

0:21:55they will give you an entirely new

0:21:56inside or an entirely new refurbished

0:21:58thing or you know like you will

0:22:01especially when it's under warranty is

0:22:02relatively new

0:22:03now is the time to start going through

0:22:05the annoying sequence because it will be

0:22:06worse if you just let the slide and the

0:22:09warranty runs out and you just ignored

0:22:11for years at a time by this thing and

0:22:13then your only recourse is that point is

0:22:15to pay off some of your own might do it

0:22:16while it's still under warranty with

0:22:18apple you will eventually something

0:22:20eventually will happen is not a hundred

0:22:22percent chance it's going to get fixed

0:22:23but it's 90 and it's way higher than the

0:22:25car dealer fixing something about

0:22:27electronic in your car so let me just

0:22:29plainly stated will be in the show notes

0:22:31but the actual error on the most recent

0:22:33time when the back light came on and

0:22:35nothing was on screen was windows server

0:22:36colon GPU driver appears to be hung

0:22:39parentheses over five continuous seconds

0:22:41of unreadiness that was the actual error

0:22:43the only thing I could come up with on a

0:22:45quick google search as i'm recording is

0:22:47the stupid mac pro so the macros

0:22:49haunting me

0:22:50you know what's really comment on the

0:22:51mac pro GPU failures

0:22:54go figure the also consider that this is

0:22:56my second or remember that this is my

0:22:58second retina 5k imac and I'm already

0:23:02kind of not wanting to deal with going

0:23:04back to the apple store and it is not

0:23:07that far from my house don't be creepy

0:23:08but I just don't want to deal with it in

0:23:12in there are people that are in the chat

0:23:13i'm sure people listening to this that

0:23:15are furious with me that I'm not leaping

0:23:17into my car to get this back guarantee

0:23:20you everybody is really connected

0:23:21let's let's see this is our well-being

0:23:24yelling at their pockets come on

0:23:25whatever I just I i have it these things

0:23:29have a year warranty do they not that

0:23:31generally generally how this works

0:23:32ok i bought this thing in like late

0:23:34january maybe mid January at the

0:23:37earliest i can look it up

0:23:39I have plenty of time to make myself

0:23:42happy and let this run with my piddly

0:23:44eight gigs of ram for another month and

0:23:46see if it crashes and how often it

0:23:49crashes and what the story is because if

0:23:52it is as simple as it doesn't crash with

0:23:55the stock ram then ok I get different

0:23:59ram I either by different ram i live

0:24:01with it with eight gigs ram it actually

0:24:02is working just fine to be honest with

0:24:04you except that every bit of this

0:24:05morning

0:24:06owc replace the ram like I obviously

0:24:08replace around after like eight years

0:24:10with me like they're really have a

0:24:11ridiculously good warranty

0:24:13ya know it's it's not the ramp it's it's

0:24:15not all the Rams unable to compete

0:24:17but anyway I gave don't think you're

0:24:18gonna you're gonna let it if you're

0:24:19going to sue for another month just like

0:24:21it's going to be a kind of a pain to

0:24:23find the stuff and console later

0:24:24especially if it like Jesus up the logs

0:24:26and everything and you have to go

0:24:27hunting through this

0:24:28make a note of a copy and paste all the

0:24:31surrounding log lines reboot make a note

0:24:33of the date and the time because if you

0:24:34don't do this while it's happening there

0:24:35will be pain to go back and research

0:24:36later then you can come to the genius

0:24:38bar and she was like look here's a

0:24:39record of all the stuff that's happened

0:24:41here the console.log surrounding the

0:24:43events and you can plot them out and say

0:24:45how many days there were between them

0:24:46and all the stuff that will be very

0:24:48useful for you

0:24:49I agree and I i would suspect that there

0:24:52will come a time that I will have to

0:24:54bring this in because it's just

0:24:57something happens that makes me think

0:24:58okay it's not the ram and yes I

0:25:00understand market that you can do a mark

0:25:02hashtag marker was right that's fine

0:25:03whatever I don't care but I am so not

0:25:06wanting to deal with the hassle of

0:25:08making this dance happen four or five

0:25:10times to get a genius that actually

0:25:12understands that something's broken

0:25:13it's just not worth it to me it's not

0:25:16worth it if it's worth it to you be that

0:25:18mark will be that John a random listener

0:25:20that is furious with me and thinks I'm

0:25:21an idiot

0:25:22fine it's worth it to you at this very

0:25:25moment tonight it's not worth it to me

0:25:28yet and I am oh so overjoyed to read all

0:25:32the emails about how much for more on am

0:25:34so just please send them to Marco that's

0:25:37gonna take what's about today we're

0:25:39going to be your threshold like at what

0:25:40point will be out

0:25:42hypothetically if X happen that would be

0:25:44like that said this thing is going i

0:25:46think if i see a similar crash with

0:25:48nothing in the console literally there

0:25:50was nothing in the console everything

0:25:52was going as a happiest kid as a clam

0:25:54and then next thing you know boot time

0:25:56if that happens again and it happens on

0:26:00the stock room which is what's in it

0:26:01that will probably in and of itself be

0:26:03enough for me to say okay fine I'll i

0:26:06probably have to take this in and

0:26:07certainly if these crashes random

0:26:10crashes for whatever reason even the GPU

0:26:12thing that I saw today if that happens

0:26:14consistently some real consistently

0:26:17enough between today the 13th of july

0:26:202016 and around Christmastime which is

0:26:24around the time that the warranty

0:26:26expires i will bring it in

0:26:27I just think it's really aggressive in

0:26:29premature to go through that

0:26:31you're freaking hassle today that's all

0:26:33I'm saying

0:26:34does that answer your question yeah well

0:26:37we'll be more follow-up I'm sure haha

0:26:39I'm so we just want your computer to be

0:26:43happy you want you to be happy and we

0:26:46don't want to lose any more often hear

0:26:47that covered with this we've taken

0:26:50alternate arrangements

0:26:51god I'm so looking forward to the

0:26:55follow-up responsive tonight by hover go

0:26:59to hover com and use code it's not the

0:27:02ram for ten percent off your first

0:27:05purchase some of the worst stand-up I

0:27:08quit when you have a great idea for your

0:27:10blog or a new store starting to get a

0:27:12great domain name and finding such a

0:27:14great domain name is easy with hover

0:27:16there's no upsells and there's free who

0:27:19is privacy so when all you want to do to

0:27:21go to Maine name or email address you

0:27:23shouldn't have to opt-out of a page

0:27:24after page of add-ons that you don't

0:27:26really need or want hover offers only

0:27:28domains and email you can focus on

0:27:30finding a great domain name and get back

0:27:32to working on your great idea and they

0:27:34believe that you shouldn't have to pay

0:27:35for things that should already be

0:27:36included with your domain so like most

0:27:39people don't realize that when you

0:27:40register a domain name your content

0:27:42information including your email address

0:27:43phone number and home address is

0:27:45published online for spammers and

0:27:47hackers to find in a whois database and

0:27:50unlike most of the domain providers

0:27:52hover includes free who is privacy with

0:27:54all supported domains to keep your

0:27:56information confidential so go to hover

0:27:58com and find a great domain name for

0:28:01your idea go to hover com use promo code

0:28:03it's not the ram sorry Casey promo code

0:28:07it's not the ram at checkout to save ten

0:28:09percent off your first purchase

0:28:11thank you very much to hover for

0:28:12sponsoring our show

0:28:14moving on Plan of the planet of the apps

0:28:16are almost depleted behaves so planet of

0:28:20the apps has a website now this is the

0:28:21app creation show thing that Apple had

0:28:27talked about it at some point I remember

0:28:29where it was but they talked about it at

0:28:31some point said hey we're gonna do like

0:28:33a reality show about making apps and now

0:28:35it has website at planet of the apps com

0:28:37and so they're starting to solicit

0:28:40people to join up and film and

0:28:43apparently there's going to be events

0:28:45and i'm not entirely clear what that

0:28:47means i don't know if it's like American

0:28:48Idol style casting or if it means

0:28:50they're just gonna go to these places

0:28:51but they're going to new york austin LA

0:28:53and San Francisco sometime over the next

0:28:56few months I guess so anyway um what do

0:29:00we think about this about Apple dipping

0:29:02into the TV world it's weird that

0:29:06Apple's first original content that is

0:29:08like over the funding is about like its

0:29:12own stuff it's not fiction show that

0:29:15it's about apps i think that's where for

0:29:18two reasons one when you think of

0:29:20company funding original TV content i

0:29:22guess just because historically think of

0:29:24like fiction like we're going to pay a

0:29:25bunch of people money and they're going

0:29:26to write a story and have lunch actors

0:29:29in a script and that's what all the

0:29:31other services have done to promote

0:29:32their you know their their headlining

0:29:35original content is all fiction stuff

0:29:37there's not going to have reality shows

0:29:39that's not the stuff we're in a house of

0:29:40cards being the big first one and then

0:29:41nail orange is the new black and all

0:29:43sorts of other things that's weird the

0:29:45second thing is that it is a reality

0:29:48show about things that Apple does and

0:29:52the reason it gets weird is because in

0:29:54general when there's a reality show

0:29:56about a topic whatever it is it's

0:29:58fishing or baking cupcakes or like

0:30:00whatever it may be i tend to view the

0:30:06reality show about that thing as not

0:30:08reflective of the thing i didn't have to

0:30:10be this entertainment right but I would

0:30:12imagine that someone who is really you

0:30:15know a professional woodworker seeing a

0:30:18reality show about woodworking and being

0:30:19like well that's not work

0:30:20it's actually like this is the reality

0:30:22show but which again which is fine but

0:30:24it's always a distorted view because I

0:30:26can reality i don't have to make a chair

0:30:29with one hand tied behind my back or I

0:30:30don't have to incorporate pinecones into

0:30:32the nice project like that's not what

0:30:35actually working is like and in reality

0:30:36like these people you know they're

0:30:38cutting away and they're not showing the

0:30:39amount of time and i would use a

0:30:40different tool for that and you know

0:30:42like i can just imagine anyone watching

0:30:44reality show thinking that this is not

0:30:46reflected in my profession I don't think

0:30:49it's entertaining and it's fun or

0:30:50whatever but i think if you were apple

0:30:52and you decided your first original

0:30:54content is going to be about developing

0:30:56for your platforms you would want to be

0:30:59either reflective of what it's like to

0:31:01develop here at platform or make it look

0:31:03better but as most reality shows make it

0:31:05look more difficult and more fraught and

0:31:09just just weird like I I can't imagine

0:31:12the view you get of app development from

0:31:15watching this program being something

0:31:17that apple would be like yeah we want

0:31:19people to think that's what it's like to

0:31:20develop apps for the platform i know

0:31:22they're gonna try to spin it to make it

0:31:23look it's great and these people are

0:31:24going to get rich and they're all

0:31:25wonderful and developing for our

0:31:27platformers is really fun but that's an

0:31:29infomercial no one wants to watch that

0:31:30either there has to be like reality show

0:31:32drama and silly events and stuff like

0:31:34that and I its it just doesn't seem like

0:31:38a good idea to me i don't see even if

0:31:40it's the best show ever and people

0:31:42enjoyed it super entertaining we come to

0:31:43love the contestants and it's a bonding

0:31:45experience and everything its I don't

0:31:47see how it's going to be a net positive

0:31:49for apple and that like before this show

0:31:52x number of people are into app

0:31:54development and now even more art looks

0:31:56even better i think it'll I think it'll

0:31:58make it into like a more of a circus or

0:32:01just under no just doesn't seem like a

0:32:03good idea to me

0:32:04we actually spoke about this on today's

0:32:06clockwise which I guessed it on

0:32:08clockwise number 145 and basically I

0:32:12figure who wasn't brought it up but

0:32:14somebody asked they are you gonna watch

0:32:15this and are you interested in it and

0:32:18the four of us all basically said yeah

0:32:20I'm at least gonna give it a shot i'm

0:32:22curious to see it i agree with you John

0:32:25that quote unquote reality TV is never

0:32:29that real or is very rarely that real

0:32:32i'm also curious

0:32:34to see how they make developing apps

0:32:36exciting because the actual act of

0:32:38developments borings craps or at least

0:32:40watching it is boring as crap i think

0:32:42the social network you know the movie

0:32:44the social network did a pretty good job

0:32:45of making it dramatic and exciting but

0:32:47if you think about it there's very

0:32:48little actual programming going on

0:32:49generally speaking it was more drinking

0:32:51that was adjacent to procreate me but uh

0:32:54i don't know i i'm not entirely clear

0:32:57what the motivation is I think you're

0:32:58right that it's fraught with peril and

0:33:00they could go wrong in a lot of ways but

0:33:02i am i'm very intrigued to see how they

0:33:05handle it and intrigued to see how they

0:33:07presented is it going to be a bunch of

0:33:09you know tech Bros from Silicon Valley

0:33:11that our programming and being idiots i

0:33:13would assume not but you never know

0:33:16or is it going to be like an interesting

0:33:17and in genuine struggle of someone

0:33:20trying to be an independent developer

0:33:21and trying to release the this app yeah

0:33:23what was that on indie game the movie

0:33:25then like that chronicled yeah what was

0:33:27that one guy who that who did pheasant

0:33:30failfish yeah yeah like I was riveted by

0:33:33his story but it wasn't about game

0:33:35development like to get back to your

0:33:36saying about how they're going to make

0:33:38up again uh you know application

0:33:40development interesting like when

0:33:42saddled with an activity that generally

0:33:44isn't that interesting to watch like

0:33:46sitting in front of the keyboard you

0:33:47fall entirely back on what normally

0:33:49reality shows only nine ninety percent

0:33:50which is it's all about the people the

0:33:53characters that the stories and only if

0:33:55you have an activity that is photogenic

0:33:57for example like cooking because people

0:34:00get hungry when they see yummy food or

0:34:01whatever like but even in cooking

0:34:02reality shows mostly it's about the

0:34:05people the characters interpersonal

0:34:06relationships than the story behind them

0:34:08where they come from what they hope to

0:34:10achieve is why there is asking people

0:34:11what their hopes and dreams are very

0:34:12very little about the the cooking and

0:34:14cooking is really photogenic right when

0:34:16you have something is not photogenic at

0:34:18all like sitting in front of a computer

0:34:20keyboard typing it's going to be

0:34:22entirely concentrated on the people's

0:34:24stories and maybe the app idea because

0:34:27the audience i use apps i know what apps

0:34:29are like tell me your app idea kinda

0:34:31like in the shark tank type things tell

0:34:32me your business idea i don't want to

0:34:34details of how you incorporate and how

0:34:36you do accounting in your business and

0:34:37how you run your business today I don't

0:34:39but things that I can relate to so that

0:34:41that is that's how reality shows work

0:34:43it's about people's about relationships

0:34:44to put it's about interpersonal conflict

0:34:47uh they're probably not going to show a

0:34:48lot of programming but they probably

0:34:50will show here is my app idea and then

0:34:52programming happened off camera here is

0:34:54a phase of development program happened

0:34:57off camera

0:34:57here's an idea judges look at the idea

0:34:59you know like which is kind of a shame

0:35:01because I think a lot of people a lot of

0:35:03energy of like i would like to see the

0:35:05program part of people making jokes like

0:35:06they can have activities we have to like

0:35:08a tree factory you know controller or

0:35:10something and change your model later

0:35:12and like no they're not going to have

0:35:14that we would like to see that but we

0:35:16are very small audience you know they

0:35:17can't do anything that's real

0:35:18programming type stuff that has to be

0:35:21about all about the personal drama which

0:35:22I think Apple thinks maybe is going to

0:35:24be like oh it shows these people in

0:35:26there they're you know pulling

0:35:28themselves up by their bootstraps and

0:35:29they're going to become billionaires and

0:35:30they have these great app ideas and

0:35:32apples empower the world or whatever but

0:35:34then again you have to have the the

0:35:37drama and the drama may be really

0:35:40entertaining and people will like the

0:35:42program but I don't think it's going to

0:35:43make people want to become a developer

0:35:44and apples platforms

0:35:46no Marco you've been pretty quiet what

0:35:47do you think I i'm mostly don't know

0:35:50what I think about this yet i agree with

0:35:54what both of you said that you know I

0:35:56KCI i agree that it is a little weird

0:35:59sounding i'm willing to reserve judgment

0:36:02until i see it i ate a little unclear as

0:36:05to what kind of show it is it sounds a

0:36:08little bit like it is kind of like a

0:36:10shark tank or a competition show and it

0:36:13sounds like the you get the prize is VC

0:36:18money surprise

0:36:20yeah like I mean so much of a prize i

0:36:22mean like it is one of those prizes that

0:36:24sounds like a surprise like make it big

0:36:25it's like it's like you landed a record

0:36:27contract like that you know American

0:36:29Idol or the original is like you

0:36:30congratulations you are signed to a

0:36:32major label with a terrible deal

0:36:33yeah fashion in Europe changed into that

0:36:36deal you think it's a big deal when

0:36:37you're nobody but once you realize

0:36:38you're in it it's really not a great

0:36:40thing I think you're right John that

0:36:43this is mostly going to be about

0:36:44interpersonal stories and and meet you

0:36:47know depending on how well they do it

0:36:49hopefully they're low on like artificial

0:36:51drama but it i think it's mostly going

0:36:54to be like a long version of the

0:36:56feel-good videos they show before their

0:36:59keynote especially

0:37:00wdc keynotes where it's like you're you

0:37:02know you're showing these developers all

0:37:04over the world doing all sorts of like

0:37:06cool things to empower themselves in the

0:37:08people around them and you know be

0:37:11showing all this all this like you know

0:37:12cool stuff with accessibility and

0:37:15diversity and everything if that's gonna

0:37:16be what it is that's fine i don't know

0:37:19how many people and that's an

0:37:20infomercial that's not that's not

0:37:21entertaining like that that's great

0:37:23that's great for an ad and makes us feel

0:37:24good but people are connecting a week

0:37:26after week to watch that show right and

0:37:28so if it's going to be some kind of if

0:37:32you want to try to be a mass appeal show

0:37:34like a mainstream show they're going to

0:37:36have to have almost none of the

0:37:39development side and two they're gonna

0:37:41have to just make it basically american

0:37:44idol for apps and and I or you know

0:37:47basically shark tank and I don't expect

0:37:49that to be good just you know it

0:37:52instantly my gut reaction is I probably

0:37:55won't like this and i probably won't

0:37:57know a single person on it but that's

0:37:59not to say that it won't be good for

0:38:02other people I guess I mean like a lot

0:38:04of people have asked me today whether

0:38:05i'm going to apply to be on it and i

0:38:09don't think i will because it like

0:38:11against like the the endgame here like

0:38:13what's the endgame I go through all this

0:38:15I i get represented somehow in a way

0:38:19that their producers edit it and it's

0:38:21not going to be like Tim Cook editing

0:38:23this is going to be some other you know

0:38:25reality TV producer for everything

0:38:27it's I'm so you know if you apply this

0:38:29you're gonna be handing over control of

0:38:31how you are represented to the world to

0:38:33somebody who is probably an expert in

0:38:36making TV drama and in in creating drama

0:38:39where there wasn't long before to make

0:38:40morning to watch because that's probably

0:38:42what they did before this

0:38:43yeah I don't think any one of us wants

0:38:45to see the reality show character that

0:38:47we would become if everyone else like

0:38:49you have the input is this person and

0:38:51then the reality show editors things

0:38:52like all right I got a slot you in here

0:38:54what kind of character are you so there

0:38:55is like a kid getting a character like

0:38:57the fair or right or they're going to

0:38:58take whatever aspect of you think is the

0:39:00most entertaining or makes them less

0:39:01drama and they're going to design a

0:39:03character with you as the input and if

0:39:06there's anything remotely weird about

0:39:08you and there's plenty weird about all

0:39:09three of us we probably would not want

0:39:11to see the reality show character that

0:39:12we would become because we

0:39:13we probably wouldn't be the one that

0:39:15that is the typical hero that everybody

0:39:19relates to and thinks is awesome

0:39:21okay maybe it maybe Casey would be huh

0:39:23haha never seen some of them is the

0:39:26everyman so maybe he would be turned

0:39:28into like the the underdog every man

0:39:30until he refuses to take a smack in the

0:39:32mines problems and that it's good like

0:39:33now he's gotta hang up still yes exactly

0:39:36good god so honest ? oh and John you as

0:39:42well actually it so it says here

0:39:45crap i just lost it who will be the tech

0:39:47experts and mentors and it just says

0:39:49this is in the faq we are excited to

0:39:51announce our tech experts and talents in

0:39:53the coming week stay tuned for more info

0:39:54would you be willing to be a tech expert

0:39:57like someone on the judging side of the

0:39:59table as opposed to the more

0:40:01participatory side of the table that

0:40:03makes sense

0:40:04mm I don't know if I would certainly be

0:40:07more likely to consider that but

0:40:08honestly the reality is they would never

0:40:11ask me like I I'm surely not not not

0:40:14even i'm not even close to famous enough

0:40:16for that I not even in the ballpark it's

0:40:20I wouldn't even be on the like

0:40:23WB version of this show like I'm not

0:40:26even close

0:40:27and so it's not even it's that's like

0:40:29saying like would you accept if they if

0:40:31they offered you to be the new head of

0:40:33the app store like well yeah I'd

0:40:35probably consider that but they won't

0:40:36so you know look at this is no reason to

0:40:38really give much thought to it already

0:40:41have started a better gig though because

0:40:42he even though being a judge is slightly

0:40:44better than being a participant is not

0:40:46much better because you don't you're not

0:40:48the showrunner you don't just make

0:40:49editorial decisions you are just another

0:40:51character on the show you have more free

0:40:53rein to define your own character if

0:40:54you're a judge but you will play a

0:40:57character in that role and you won't

0:40:59have control of the final edit you only

0:41:00have control over all the decisions that

0:41:01are made on the show so it is entirely

0:41:03like you would be a cog in someone

0:41:05else's machine in that situation mark

0:41:08was really bad at being a cog in someone

0:41:09else's machine so i think you're not

0:41:10taking offered it to him I wouldn't take

0:41:13it just because I wouldn't wanna be on

0:41:14TV

0:41:15I mean I don't even do public speaking

0:41:16of kryolan anything i want to be a TV

0:41:17show but I thought I can think of a lot

0:41:19of other people who I think would be

0:41:22good

0:41:22celebrity judges like people who are

0:41:25no what would fill that role well be not

0:41:28because they're the best you know tech

0:41:30expert or the best mentor but that's not

0:41:31what these things are about the reality

0:41:32shows about you have to have an

0:41:34entertaining cast of characters

0:41:35hopefully they have some skills and you

0:41:37know you like and have some steak in a

0:41:40genuine or interesting people not saying

0:41:41they're all like a bunch of phonies but

0:41:43that's what makes for good television so

0:41:45you need different types to mix together

0:41:48like I would say that you for example

0:41:50Larry Ellison would be an interesting

0:41:52judge in this just because he's so like

0:41:53cartoonish the evil like the persona

0:41:56that is the public responded that he has

0:41:57and usually there's a spot on a reality

0:41:59show for someone to be like the

0:42:01cartoonishly evil mustache twisting

0:42:02villain right so we could slot right

0:42:04into that you know we in the various

0:42:08messages coming around / and stuff I've

0:42:10seen a few developed people that we know

0:42:12consider applying as participants just

0:42:15as a lark type of thing haven't seen

0:42:17anyone interested in applying for judge

0:42:20things but i think that they have to

0:42:22call you but I have a feeling that the

0:42:25people who would be good would also say

0:42:29no so i think they're judging panel is

0:42:32not going to have the brightest lights

0:42:33every industry in it and it's gonna be

0:42:36difficult to find to make interesting

0:42:39characters at a well-known celebrities

0:42:41think the best bet is to have three or

0:42:43four people who have never heard of but

0:42:44who turned out to be really good as just

0:42:46as judges on a reality show

0:42:48well it's probably gonna be like people

0:42:50who who want or need to be in Apple's

0:42:52good graces for Apple music promotion

0:42:54and VC's like that it's going to be that

0:42:57combination you're going to have a

0:42:58couple of like probably you know b-list

0:43:00celebrities or like you know musicians

0:43:02who were popular five years ago like you

0:43:05know something like that you're gonna

0:43:06have a couple of celebrities and VC's

0:43:09and that's good that that's the story

0:43:11like the judges and you know it with

0:43:14these kinda reality shows the judges are

0:43:15often used to attract the audience you

0:43:18know it's so that's why they try to get

0:43:20celebrity judges because they know that

0:43:21people will tune in to watch those

0:43:23judges judge the apps right and then

0:43:25you're gonna have bc is because they're

0:43:27the ones who actually know more about

0:43:29the business i feel like i have to point

0:43:30out the the world that Apple is going to

0:43:33promote here is most likely not the

0:43:36world that like we and our

0:43:38friends and the apps that we talk about

0:43:40our podcast it's not the world that we

0:43:42all live in its the other it's the the

0:43:44entire rest of the app store where it's

0:43:46well-known that store but it's like it's

0:43:48it's the rest of like the big money side

0:43:49of the app store at least where it is VC

0:43:51funded it is driven by like these like

0:43:54hit driven usually IEP games or things

0:43:57like that or you know it's gonna be that

0:43:59kind of stuff in all likelihood it's not

0:44:02going to be like one person toiling away

0:44:05to really polish the crap out of one

0:44:08amazing productivity app and try to sell

0:44:10it for 10 bucks a year that's not going

0:44:12to be what the show is about in all

0:44:13likelihood it's way more like that it's

0:44:15gonna be like we're making a start going

0:44:17to help connect people to do the this

0:44:20amazing task together and we're gonna

0:44:21get 10 million users in the first year

0:44:23then figure out monetization later I

0:44:24getting that kind of app it's not going

0:44:26to be you know draft that I've got more

0:44:29faith in for example a music executives

0:44:32ability to judge musical talent to say

0:44:35can I take this person and make an album

0:44:38with them they will sell a lot of copies

0:44:39that I would say is a more refined more

0:44:44predictable aren't even though it's

0:44:45still difficult to pick the people who

0:44:46are good at that I feel like are much

0:44:47better that than VC which is just a

0:44:49bunch of people who all know nothing in

0:44:51fact almost all have exactly the wrong

0:44:52idea about everything right bc is like

0:44:54two orders of magnitude more

0:44:57unpredictable more difficult to figure

0:45:00out what is going to be a hit

0:45:01you know an idiot that's why bc throwing

0:45:02money everywhere you went you know throw

0:45:04the money at a thousand companies just

0:45:05hoping one of them will be your magical

0:45:07unicorn that makes you billions of

0:45:09dollars that means you're wrong you know

0:45:11999 times and if you like I think it

0:45:15right that it's gonna be a bunch of

0:45:16feces and there's nothing worse than

0:45:17hearing bc's be like you know like I can

0:45:20tell i'm gonna tell you you know why

0:45:22your business is gonna like they have no

0:45:23idea what's going to succeed what's

0:45:25going to fail especially just a small

0:45:27handful of BC's forget it like it's

0:45:29gonna be hard for me to take them any of

0:45:31them seriously like that every time they

0:45:33have made a judgment would be like out

0:45:34what current unicorns did you pass on

0:45:38and tell me the 909 things that you

0:45:41funded the thought were going to be the

0:45:42next big thing that we're all dumb ideas

0:45:43that fizzled out right

0:45:45it's a lot easier to go to record

0:45:46executive intake tell me all of the

0:45:49people who

0:45:50you know who turned out hits for you and

0:45:53how many people did you take under your

0:45:55wing that turned out to do nothing good

0:45:57at the ratios are just so hard and in

0:45:59venture capital for technology companies

0:46:01that it's going to be comical I think

0:46:03it's easier like a shark tank to come up

0:46:05like business ideas before concrete

0:46:07things because in the world of apps and

0:46:10you know digital stuff and software and

0:46:13all that it's just it's so unpredictable

0:46:15and pretty much every idea that turns

0:46:18out to be really big is the idea that

0:46:20most people hate when they first get us

0:46:24yeah I I am NOT looking forward to the

0:46:27unbelievable complaining and moaning

0:46:30that will happen from our community when

0:46:32we realize as both of you have said that

0:46:34this show was not made for us one other

0:46:36interesting point that's on their faq

0:46:38will i be required to give up a

0:46:40percentage of equity answer those that

0:46:42appear on the show will not be required

0:46:44to give up equity unless they choose to

0:46:45accept an offer from one of the angel

0:46:47investor angel advisors or investors

0:46:49which is just further reason to make me

0:46:52believe this is basically shark tank but

0:46:54for apps that well that's it that's good

0:46:55to know though is that because that

0:46:57means that the VC component is optional

0:46:59which is nice you know that that would

0:47:01that would make it a little more

0:47:02interesting but then what do you win i

0:47:04guess you win like prestige and

0:47:06promotion by bragging rights and now

0:47:08your name is out there and it's easier

0:47:09for you to find funding be the guy that

0:47:10one on the show or whatever we better

0:47:12just a plain old cash prize like okay

0:47:14those accepted will have a chance to

0:47:16receive this is from the about page 1

0:47:18mentorship hands-on guidance from some

0:47:20of the world's best experts in tech and

0:47:21entertainment to funding those who make

0:47:23it to the final round will meet with

0:47:24top-tier vc's investing up to 10 million

0:47:27dollars over the course of the season 3

0:47:29marketing promotion featured placement

0:47:31on the app store at the end of the show

0:47:32also the potential reach millions of

0:47:34viewers around the world on Apple

0:47:35platforms so that is what you're

0:47:39potentially going to receive

0:47:40participation in the show's limited to

0:47:42100 of the world's most talented

0:47:43creators if that's you please join us

0:47:46that's a link so that that's the that's

0:47:48the playing field that we're dealing

0:47:50with so we get nothing they get featured

0:47:51which happens to people free all the

0:47:53time in the grandeur of control then

0:47:55this is a guarantee of being future but

0:47:56so what being featured is not going to

0:47:58me

0:47:58you're guaranteed to make you a

0:47:59bazillionaire you got the VC which is

0:48:01that like a monkey's paw if ever there

0:48:04was one

0:48:04you know if you really if you really do

0:48:06have a good app idea you probably don't

0:48:08need the VC unless your business model

0:48:09demands a huge amount amount upfront

0:48:10costs and you're making a deal with the

0:48:12devil and most likely i can't imagine

0:48:14that the best friend species are going

0:48:16to be part of this thing and it's only

0:48:1710 million dollars anyway and it's

0:48:19that's up to 10 million total so each

0:48:21app you're you're looking at you know if

0:48:23you actually have these people invest in

0:48:25your app how many apps are you know you

0:48:27might get a few hundred thousand dollars

0:48:28which is that sounds like a lot of money

0:48:31but for VC money funding an app that's

0:48:33not that much money really yeah and and

0:48:36then like but there's no there is no

0:48:38like it guaranteed big like how you're

0:48:41going to get 10 million dollars in cash

0:48:43like guaranteed you know here you go

0:48:45that's your prize in the show like

0:48:47getting the end of you know game sure

0:48:48whatever the winner will get whatever it

0:48:51is even if it's just 1 million dollars

0:48:52in cash i think that is would be more

0:48:55attractive to more people because who is

0:48:58going to read this and say I really want

0:49:01to go on the show and I really want to

0:49:02win

0:49:03only somebody who doesn't have like like

0:49:07whatever I think the reason market

0:49:08should do is if he had a good idea for

0:49:09an app he wouldn't spend his time trying

0:49:11to convince a bunch of doofus vc's that

0:49:13it's a great idea he would just make the

0:49:15appt and he doesn't need other people to

0:49:16help make the appt unless his ideas

0:49:18again one of those ideas where it's like

0:49:19I can't even get that possible the

0:49:20ground alive millions of dollars because

0:49:22kind of one of those things work you

0:49:24need a critical mass before becoming

0:49:25like uber or something if you had the

0:49:27idea for uber like you can't really make

0:49:28that up yourself because you need

0:49:30drivers and people to manage them and

0:49:32like this this much more to it to even

0:49:34just get off the ground to get a

0:49:35critical mass of like in one city can

0:49:37someone actually use my apt to actually

0:49:38get a car that's like takes a lot of

0:49:40money just to get to that point right so

0:49:42whoever is an example idea that you

0:49:43would need bc 4 but for this for an app

0:49:46that you're gonna make a show by

0:49:47yourself just make it yourself so the

0:49:49only people i think would be attracted

0:49:50this or like I've never done this before

0:49:52and this seems like a way that i can

0:49:55become successful faster if I happened

0:49:57to win and who knows maybe it is but I

0:49:58just like this what I think it's gonna

0:50:00attract new people and not people who

0:50:03already know how to make apps because

0:50:06while they just make the appt that like

0:50:07why spend your time arguing to the shark

0:50:09tank people that you have a great

0:50:11idea just do it if it's a great idea

0:50:12it'll be great idea because integrated

0:50:14it won't be great idea their their

0:50:16mentorship and their advices probably

0:50:18not going to mean that much because

0:50:19every successful apps had tons of people

0:50:22tell them it's terrible idea and every

0:50:23app that is a does had tons of people

0:50:26tell them it's awesome so crapshoot

0:50:29yeah i would also you know point out it

0:50:32for anybody who has never dealt with the

0:50:33role of VC before that when you get vc

0:50:37investment money

0:50:38this is not a gift this is not a prize

0:50:41this is a massive obligation you you

0:50:44basically higher yourselves a whole

0:50:47bunch of bosses who really want a

0:50:50certain a certain way of doing things

0:50:52because you're you're taking a lot of

0:50:53their money it again not a gift you are

0:50:56taking a lot of their money and

0:50:58investing it in in your company and you

0:51:01are responsible from that point forward

0:51:03for providing them a large return at

0:51:05some point in the future and they're a

0:51:07little bit impatient about when that is

0:51:08understandably because you're taking a

0:51:10lot of their money so if you take VC

0:51:13money you get you basically get put on a

0:51:15track

0:51:16we're ok now the next step is first of

0:51:18all you have to spend a slice of this

0:51:19money setting up the company exactly

0:51:21where they want you to legal fees you

0:51:23know corporate all the stuff then you

0:51:25have to hire staff on their time scale

0:51:27they are going to tell you we we know we

0:51:29want you to do this we wanted to hit

0:51:30these growth targets and you better have

0:51:32a plan and how you do that you better

0:51:33show up late before we even consider it

0:51:35it's a very high pressure track that you

0:51:40put on that they aren't interested in

0:51:42investing in something that is going to

0:51:44you know bring you a hundred thousand

0:51:46dollars a year for the next ten years as

0:51:48a personal income they don't care about

0:51:49that at all

0:51:50you don't they don't want to give you

0:51:52money out of their pocket to get that

0:51:54kind of return

0:51:55they're investing in you and they want

0:51:57you to grow as big as quickly as

0:51:59possible because there's a chance as i

0:52:01mentioned a small chance but there is a

0:52:03chance that if you do that you will get

0:52:05them millions of dollars in return

0:52:07that's how the business works that's how

0:52:09it operates that that is what funds it

0:52:11is those big hits that come along so

0:52:14they aren't interested in your lifestyle

0:52:15business them lifestyle business is a is

0:52:17a derogatory term even though that

0:52:19describes everything I've ever done

0:52:20besides tumblr but they don't want that

0:52:23because that's not what

0:52:24their money you know that's not your too

0:52:26risky taking their money to just try to

0:52:29do that they need big things out of you

0:52:30and so the pressure will be on you from

0:52:32that moment forward to make your thing

0:52:34big and huge and grow very quickly and

0:52:37take over the world and Edward please

0:52:39try to their goal is to make you burn

0:52:41through that money really quickly

0:52:43because they want you to be spending it

0:52:45on growth on hiring people on scaling on

0:52:48acquiring new users or whatever the case

0:52:50maybe they want you to be burning about

0:52:52money quickly and unsustainably because

0:52:54they know if you hit that growth you can

0:52:55always get more VC money you can raise

0:52:57additional rounds if you're going if

0:52:59you're not growing you'll crash and burn

0:53:01they don't care they move on there are

0:53:02advantages to the system there's lots of

0:53:04things that require this kind of funding

0:53:06to really get off the ground but this is

0:53:09what they're rewarding you with with the

0:53:13triple that that is the path that

0:53:15they're trying to put you on here and it

0:53:17might work for you and it might not but

0:53:19if you're the kind of person like me who

0:53:21prefers to do things like independently

0:53:22as quote lifestyle businesses and just

0:53:25have things that are sustainable over

0:53:26long periods

0:53:27this is not for you I think the one

0:53:29upside potentially is that the only

0:53:31reason VCR on this program is not that

0:53:33they have any expectation that the

0:53:35winner is going to return investment

0:53:36like in fact I I think they'll be less

0:53:38pressure on the winner because I think

0:53:41the main reason feces are on the show is

0:53:42to increase their stature in the vc

0:53:44community like oh you were the judge on

0:53:46that show and like during the course of

0:53:47the judging they're going to try to

0:53:48demonstrate how wise they are and how

0:53:51how knowledgeable they are about the

0:53:53market and how they can judge good ideas

0:53:54from bad in an effort to get more people

0:53:56to come to them and you know like

0:53:58they're there they're basically doing is

0:54:00a giant advertisement advertisement for

0:54:01themselves to become more prominent be

0:54:04more powerful vc's right and the fact

0:54:06that they're going to give some winner

0:54:07of some amount of money i think there's

0:54:10less pressure on them because they feel

0:54:11like even when this thing does not give

0:54:13me any return on investment me starring

0:54:15on this show will be that's the best the

0:54:18real return on investment i'm getting

0:54:20that I get to do this one thing for a

0:54:21short period of time and it will raise

0:54:23my profile in the vc community provided

0:54:26I you know i play my cards right and end

0:54:28up not being the doofus judge that

0:54:29everybody hates or what ever heard

0:54:31looks like they don't know what they're

0:54:32doing right so that little bit of return

0:54:35takes a little bit of pressure off the

0:54:37person who wins to say oh you know

0:54:38whatever do whatever you're going to do

0:54:40with your business but I feel like I

0:54:41already got my money's worth by hit by

0:54:43getting my name out there on this TV

0:54:45show one thing i'm also really curious

0:54:47to see just creatively about this show

0:54:49is a lot of the challenges of app

0:54:53development and a lot of what makes it a

0:54:55really tough grind is things about Apple

0:54:57that are bad and like how how are they

0:55:01going to frame this exactly like how how

0:55:03are they going to you know are they are

0:55:05they even going to try to accurately

0:55:07portray what it is like being a

0:55:09developer the good and the bad and the

0:55:11bad that is it that is a result of Apple

0:55:13shortcomings or or Apple's policies or

0:55:15Apple's attitude

0:55:16they're going to paper over that like

0:55:18how did a paper over that no way that is

0:55:19at all genuine and then what's what how

0:55:22valuable is the resulting show really

0:55:24like I don't think they're gonna show

0:55:25them submitting their apps the apps are

0:55:27because they're gonna say whoever wins

0:55:29whoever wins this thing Apple will make

0:55:31sure that their app gets through the app

0:55:32store they will work privately

0:55:34individually with the winner to do

0:55:36whatever it takes to fix and boxing bugs

0:55:38and i will all happen off-camera and

0:55:40it's just like don't worry when you're

0:55:42done your Apple be up on the app store

0:55:43they're never going to show the process

0:55:45of submitting and getting your a

0:55:46projected and then getting like these

0:55:48form letters back and trying to explain

0:55:49no you don't understand I'm not opening

0:55:51that file is something in your framework

0:55:52is game over

0:55:53sorry your front like they're never

0:55:55going to show that right good at is too

0:55:57esoteric and be that entire part of the

0:56:00process is going to be just like hand

0:56:02waved away was like it'll just be like a

0:56:04sense of the other thing and your app

0:56:06will be in the app star eventually cause

0:56:08you know you don't definitely map store

0:56:10until you're essentially the winner

0:56:11right so it's not as if they need to be

0:56:12constantly submitting it says here the

0:56:14faq how far along in the development

0:56:16process my app have to be the app must

0:56:18be in a beta or functional state-backed

0:56:21over 21 so that does not by necessity

0:56:23means need mean it needs to be in the

0:56:25app store so I was wrong about that well

0:56:27anyway that part of the process will be

0:56:29like it will be if you don't know what

0:56:31submitting the app store is like it will

0:56:32seem like it's just as simple as sending

0:56:34something in the mail to somebody oh you

0:56:36just submitted to the app store like I

0:56:37can't imagine they would focus on

0:56:39rejection right and I mean unless they

0:56:41want to make that the dramatic

0:56:43the program to show your apples rejected

0:56:45because it crashed just like it's your

0:56:46fault like none of it is if they do that

0:56:48at all

0:56:48it's not going to be shown to be apple's

0:56:50fault any of the rejections will not be

0:56:51a misunderstanding apples are just be

0:56:53like oh you're I've got rejected from

0:56:54store because it crashes every viewer

0:56:56can understand that Oh youyou did that

0:56:58was your mistake

0:56:59apple is perfect and nice and they would

0:57:01never reject her out for any reason

0:57:02except for because it doesn't work right

0:57:04it's malicious or crashes yeah i mean

0:57:06this is this is the kind of thing where

0:57:08just creatively it seems like it would

0:57:11probably have way better chances of

0:57:13being a good show

0:57:14if Apple wasn't involved in it but

0:57:16unfortunately this is an apple produce

0:57:19show you look at some companies and

0:57:21they're able to like be producers of

0:57:22things but still have jokes made it

0:57:24their expense or have themselves made

0:57:26look bad apple is not one of these

0:57:28companies Apple does not have any flex

0:57:33on like the sense of humor about itself

0:57:35and its own flaws like they would never

0:57:38in a million years produce something

0:57:41like this that would show any part of

0:57:43them in a bad light

0:57:44so is this really going to be watchable

0:57:48or is it going to just seemed like an

0:57:50overly long WC promotion video we'll see

0:57:55so that actually is a nice segue to what

0:57:56I was going to bring up I noticed at the

0:57:59bottom of at least a couple of the pages

0:58:01on planet of the apps com it says

0:58:04something about prospect productions and

0:58:05so I did a smidge of digging and i

0:58:07believe i've come up with the right

0:58:09prospect productions and this is

0:58:11prospect production calm and if you go

0:58:12to prospect production calm / works you

0:58:15can see some of the stuff they've done

0:58:16in the past in much to my surprise a

0:58:19large majority of what they've worked on

0:58:23is sports-related so just looking at the

0:58:26the sections they have there's a music

0:58:30video by James pit Taylor but it's the

0:58:32angels at Fenway which is a baseball

0:58:34stadium

0:58:35there's some there's not a translation

0:58:37which I figured you'd be confused

0:58:39there's an on the trail section that

0:58:41that a that is not sports-related but

0:58:43then there's legendary which is about

0:58:45sports 3430 shorts which is sports

0:58:47victory journal such power 8 sports

0:58:49major league soccer major league soccer

0:58:51insider something unrelated ESPN Sunday

0:58:54Night Baseball and so there's

0:58:56all sorts of sports related stuff and

0:58:58then some stuff with the huffington post

0:58:59as well so it is not excluded or their

0:59:02histories not exclusively sports but

0:59:04seems overwhelmingly to be sport-related

0:59:08which i think is a good thing because

0:59:12that'll probably i'm hoping that all

0:59:15they'll understand how to make something

0:59:17that sometimes is inherently boring like

0:59:19baseball into something exciting so

0:59:21maybe they can make something else

0:59:22that's inherently boring like

0:59:23development into something exciting

0:59:25which would be neat sports the way

0:59:27easier to make exciting because it's a

0:59:29competition and there's winners and

0:59:30losers and points scored and what there

0:59:32is here

0:59:33sort of yeah but that is artificially a

0:59:35competition it

0:59:36no it's not a zero-sum game where

0:59:38there's a winner and loser in the app

0:59:39store like a baseball game is where

0:59:41there's two teams face off and one is

0:59:42going to win was going to lose or it's

0:59:45gonna get rained out a bit like sports

0:59:48are so much easier to make dramatic like

0:59:50we've all the all those sort of like

0:59:52long segments that were on the olympics

0:59:53where they tell you the back story in

0:59:55what hometown the person came from and

0:59:57how long she trained and she woke up at

0:59:585am for years

0:59:585am for years

1:00:00and she overcame this and whatever

1:00:01parents died and then she's like that's

1:00:03so easy to do in terms of personal drama

1:00:06and because like all of the Anakin will

1:00:08they get the gold medal will they win

1:00:10will vanquish their rivals every one of

1:00:12these sports has a clear like first

1:00:14second third fourth place you know gold

1:00:16silver bronze app development is not

1:00:18like that like yeah you know it's the

1:00:21job set for apples to see Marcus doesn't

1:00:23have to lose and for you to win only in

1:00:25this artificial reality show do your

1:00:27other app developers have to lose in

1:00:28reality for you to win you don't have to

1:00:30sabotage your other app developers by

1:00:33adding stray semicolon source code

1:00:35whatever responses might buy betterment

1:00:39betterment is the largest independent

1:00:41automated investing service out there

1:00:43you probably hearing a lot about them in

1:00:45TechCrunch the wall street journal and

1:00:47other news outlets betterment makes it

1:00:49easier more straightforward and less

1:00:50expensive to invest Betterman is built

1:00:53on smarter cutting-edge technology to

1:00:54bring you sophisticated investing and

1:00:56financial advice on a lower-cost the

1:00:59more traditional financial services more

1:01:01than a hundred fifty thousand customers

1:01:02choose betterment advanced advice

1:01:04algorithms and beautiful user interface

1:01:05to manage over four billion of their

1:01:07dollars

1:01:08this is the perfect time to get started

1:01:10today with betterment and saving for

1:01:12your retirement or other financial goals

1:01:14because eighty listeners can get up to

1:01:16six months of no fees that's an

1:01:18incredible deal

1:01:19learn how at betterment calm / ATP

1:01:22that's betterment calm / ATP betterment

1:01:26investing made better

1:01:31quick spot of real-time follow-up

1:01:33listener Rob Travis is written in via

1:01:37Twitter and i'm quoting I had the same

1:01:40random reboot problem with a new 5k imac

1:01:42and 32 gigs of odbc ram owc swap the ram

1:01:47and it has not happened since boom that

1:01:50may or may not have anything to do with

1:01:51my issue but i'm claiming it is as fact

1:01:54that that's the problem anyway let's

1:01:56move on before yell at me

1:01:57let's talk about poke it poke game on go

1:02:00it's not pokemons right is pokemon i

1:02:01think something like that i have no idea

1:02:03what you're trying to make us forget

1:02:04about the GPU freezes at what's

1:02:06happening now

1:02:07yeah pretty much moving on so we could

1:02:09be multiple issues

1:02:11dammit youtube I soap oh c'mon Go is a

1:02:14new kind of augmented reality kind of

1:02:18not game that came out I guess the last

1:02:21week and I i'm not really sure what to

1:02:25make of it have either of you guys

1:02:27installed and or plated good talk so

1:02:30this for me because they all thought

1:02:32three of us that i would imagine and

1:02:33none of us have installed or played this

1:02:35game so the only thing we can talk about

1:02:37is the phenomenon that we observe from

1:02:39the outside of other people installing

1:02:41and playing this you know I've played it

1:02:43oh you have you haven't known that

1:02:45surprises me have you did you play any

1:02:46other pokemon games i did not in fact

1:02:49also plugging my appearance on clockwise

1:02:51145 because we talk about this today as

1:02:53well when I was in high school in early

1:02:56on in college I worked at Babbage's

1:02:59which was kind of like Electronics

1:03:01Boutique it was basically a video game

1:03:02software store and this was around the

1:03:05time that pokemon cards were popular and

1:03:09this was a collectible card game much

1:03:10like match the Gathering which is

1:03:12popular

1:03:12well more popular for a couple years

1:03:14prior and so every day when i when i was

1:03:18working at least every weekday when i

1:03:20was working in the evenings are

1:03:22afternoon rather the phones would light

1:03:25up as soon as the elementary and middle

1:03:28schools got were let out and it would go

1:03:31approx like this bring hi thanks for

1:03:34going Babbage's is Casey how can I help

1:03:36you do you have any pokemon cards

1:03:38nope sorry were sold out try again in a

1:03:40week bring do you have any pokemon cards

1:03:43no I'm sorry was that was like

1:03:45three hours of work was just answering

1:03:47the nonstop phone for people looking for

1:03:49pokemon cards I don't like it when

1:03:51people say that they had PTSD about

1:03:53things that are not stressful and so i

1:03:55won't say that but let's just say I am

1:03:57predisposed to not like pokemon that

1:03:59being said I've installed the game and I

1:04:00can see why would be fun

1:04:02you ever play that did you ever play the

1:04:03card game when you were working there I

1:04:05did not and I've never played the video

1:04:06game either

1:04:07so this is your very first pokemon game

1:04:08and i'm assuming the only reason you

1:04:10downloaded is because it's so popular

1:04:12and you're seeing everything about other

1:04:13people yes and then because you have a

1:04:15phone and I can run that game

1:04:17precisely and I i was vaguely familiar

1:04:21with the kind of the premise of the game

1:04:24very very vaguely I know you have to

1:04:25collect these little monster things and

1:04:27like you fight the monster things i

1:04:29think it doesn't matter if I'm wrong you

1:04:32don't have to write incorrect me I'm

1:04:33just telling you what I thought at the

1:04:34time and so I've installed the game and

1:04:37it doesn't tell me a whole lot more

1:04:39about what purpose if everything is but

1:04:42I like the cat gamey meat if you to

1:04:43explain to you what

1:04:45oh god hi Dante random and unexpected

1:04:48John said my name is that i have heerd

1:04:51perfect i summoned re if you say her

1:04:53name was she appears no no you say it

1:04:55into the mirror at night I thought I

1:04:57thought it was three but you but it

1:04:59would be wrong of me to compare you to

1:05:00be able to use apologies for being so

1:05:02confused that was like really great

1:05:04timing I was not prepared for that and

1:05:06we were not warned

1:05:07well i figured i replace myself with

1:05:09tiff because i have installed the game

1:05:10but she has so I quit here sniff hey

1:05:14okay so but to set you up to since I

1:05:17presume you haven't heard much of what

1:05:19we were just talking about basically I

1:05:20just heard you talking that you you

1:05:22worked in a store and there were cards

1:05:24and yeah okay okay so tell me what is

1:05:27the purpose of pokemon go because I

1:05:29played enough that i think i understand

1:05:30it but I probably do not understand it

1:05:32as well as you do

1:05:33from what I understand is that you went

1:05:36around the fuck you gather pokemon and

1:05:39they have different points and then

1:05:41there are gyms at public places that you

1:05:44can go to and you form teams with people

1:05:46and once you are certain level you're

1:05:49able to train at the gym and you can

1:05:52train your pokemon to get more hit

1:05:53points and then you can fight other

1:05:56pokemon and it

1:05:57your kind of goal is to take control of

1:05:59the gym from other teams so you can like

1:06:02at different types of times of day one

1:06:06team can show up take control the gym

1:06:07with like a really high level pokemon if

1:06:10then they leave it because you can't

1:06:11stick around you have to be at the

1:06:13location in order to play at the gym and

1:06:15then so they leave and another team can

1:06:18come in and take control the gym also so

1:06:21it's kind of like a locational strategy

1:06:23kind of thing I don't know my experience

1:06:25from pokemon before was the card game my

1:06:28brother played it when he was young

1:06:30because i was just a little bit too old

1:06:32for it i just missed it and then I

1:06:34remember he used to watch the TV show so

1:06:36I do remember that so I think it's kind

1:06:38of like the TV show that's right i

1:06:40forgot there was a TV show ya what they

1:06:41are tuned right so right i forgot about

1:06:44that

1:06:45yeah i mean i was playing it Marco got

1:06:47pretty pissed with me on the walk the

1:06:49other day because I kept stopping to

1:06:51catch pokemon and he's like this is the

1:06:53worst walk he was getting so mad mikey

1:06:55to chill was like nothing nothing is

1:06:59worse than if you are trying to walk

1:07:02somewhere with somebody else who is

1:07:04playing pokemon girls what I mean come

1:07:06on it's not like every walking running

1:07:08around playing pokemon but i was driving

1:07:10today seeing this kid like kind of

1:07:12wandering on the side of the road

1:07:13it says right in the beginning of the

1:07:15game like please be aware of your

1:07:16surroundings because like people walk

1:07:18into poles and stuff apparently while

1:07:19playing this and some driving and I'm

1:07:22like watching this kid kinda like swervy

1:07:25walking next to the road my god this kid

1:07:27totally playing pokemon go and I Drive

1:07:30fast really slow he's reading a book

1:07:32like a real book I thought that was even

1:07:34more strange than poking around read a

1:07:37real book but anyway goodness sake my

1:07:40night has so have you any so have you

1:07:42displayed yet

1:07:43yes so I have an apparently gianmarco if

1:07:46not and it's funny you talk about Marco

1:07:48getting frustrated during the walk

1:07:50because in the evenings for the last few

1:07:51weeks I've been taking Declan on a walk

1:07:53and giving Aaron a little time to

1:07:55herself because she's been with him all

1:07:56day and today i had my phone out just

1:07:59kind of periodically glancing to see if

1:08:01there are any Pokemon nearby and at one

1:08:02point there was and so I stopped long

1:08:04enough to catch it and I hear this

1:08:06little voice from the stroller in front

1:08:07of me

1:08:08push push

1:08:09and you're telling me and telling me

1:08:11basically would you get the show on the

1:08:12road i'm tired of standing still see so

1:08:15even Declan was frustrated so what level

1:08:18are you shoot i don't know i meanwhile

1:08:20let me keep running my mouth look but

1:08:22honestly I just got to level 5 so that

1:08:24means I get to go to the gym so I'm

1:08:26pretty psyched

1:08:26oh you are ahead of me so what's

1:08:28fascinating in all kidding aside like

1:08:30whether or not you find the game to be

1:08:32interesting or worthwhile this

1:08:33collective you what's fascinating to me

1:08:35about this game is that it's got several

1:08:37different very interesting components

1:08:38all-in-one I am level 3 by the way it's

1:08:41got several different components that

1:08:42are new all rolled and such and you

1:08:44could never hold into one so there's the

1:08:48location awareness sort of thing and

1:08:50this is what if was talking about

1:08:51earlier there are gyms and there was a

1:08:53pokey pokey stops yeah that's where you

1:08:55can pick up pokeballs or you can get

1:08:57eggs there and eggs you have to do you

1:09:00know about the x-jet like the egg I've

1:09:02been told about them

1:09:03what language is this again this is

1:09:05nowhere near destiny so don't even start

1:09:07your whining but what I find great about

1:09:08it is that you have to actually walk to

1:09:12physical locations to do these things

1:09:13and you have to be at the location for a

1:09:15certain amount of time so just driving

1:09:17around you can't hit up all of these

1:09:19things because by the time you're

1:09:21driving past in kind of the flow of

1:09:23traffic

1:09:24you can't have to spin the Polka stops

1:09:28in order to collect the pokeballs to

1:09:30catch your Pokemon way just to clarify

1:09:32when you were out driving today were you

1:09:33trying to play pokemon to test all this

1:09:35up

1:09:35not while I was driving I mean but while

1:09:38other people were driving like when I

1:09:39went to target any of the other day I

1:09:41was like I'm totally gonna try and play

1:09:43pokemon while we're driving and pretend

1:09:45I was listening to what we were talking

1:09:46about haha right now I tried it and it

1:09:50didn't work inside my phone away like a

1:09:51gentleman

1:09:52wow so he said to build on what it was

1:09:55saying so there's these paki stops where

1:09:58you can like tip said you can collect

1:10:00items and whatnot and then there's the

1:10:01gyms where you can get into right is a

1:10:03coil rumbles with other people and then

1:10:06as you're walking around you can just

1:10:07stumble upon the pokemon these pocket

1:10:09monsters or whatever they are but what's

1:10:11fascinating to me about this is that

1:10:12there's this real world component to it

1:10:14that you can well okay yes I'm sure

1:10:16there's a way to cheat but if you play

1:10:18the game the way it's intended to be

1:10:20played

1:10:21can't just sit there in your house and

1:10:22collect a bunch of pokemon and and part

1:10:24of the fun of the game besides this

1:10:26whole gym and team vs team competition

1:10:28if i understand it right part of the

1:10:30part of the fun of the game is

1:10:32collecting all these different Pokemon

1:10:34gotta catch em all gotta catch em all

1:10:35that's right so you so you have to get

1:10:38off your butt and walk around in order

1:10:40to catch them all and apparently the

1:10:42ones that are water oriented I guess

1:10:44there's some like fish asked once or

1:10:47something like that something you can

1:10:48tell are designed to their their

1:10:50animated in such a way that they look

1:10:51like they belong around water

1:10:53well apparently you have to go to a

1:10:55small body of water generally speaking

1:10:57to find these pokemon not to say have to

1:10:59go to the ocean just have to go to like

1:11:00a little pond or a lake or river what

1:11:02have you tiff might have diverted our

1:11:04walk to go past a pool to see if that

1:11:06counted

1:11:07yeah I might have done that exactly also

1:11:08tell you please don't look for pokemon

1:11:10in volcanoes because there are fire

1:11:12pokemon please do not try and go into

1:11:15volcanoes to find pokemon so the thing

1:11:17about the thing that i find fascinating

1:11:18whether or not you think this is a

1:11:19complete like waste of time i candidly I

1:11:22never tried the cat game I never

1:11:23everything I solve it just looks stupid

1:11:26to me cackles amazing

1:11:27shut your face and hey other people have

1:11:30their people enjoy that's fine you'd

1:11:31like what you like that's fine

1:11:33whether or not you collective you think

1:11:35that pokemon is interesting or fun or

1:11:37what have you

1:11:38I still think it's fascinating that it

1:11:40has these different aspects right so it

1:11:42has the collectible aspect where you

1:11:44want to try to catch em all

1:11:45it has the real world tie-in that you

1:11:49have to go places in order to play it

1:11:51has the team vs team it's us against

1:11:54them aspect at the gyms and it's all of

1:11:57these different things all rolled

1:11:58together which is I think what makes it

1:12:00so fascinating and so interesting and

1:12:02and the tipster the in the chat is

1:12:04joking hey cases learning what a video

1:12:06game is but I used to be a pretty pretty

1:12:09frequent videogamer way long ago and i

1:12:12personally have not witnessed a game

1:12:14that got all of these different pieces

1:12:16connected together even vaguely similar

1:12:19to the way this was except apparently

1:12:21what was the name of the game it but

1:12:23there was a predecessor for this like

1:12:24infuse or no not confusing dress

1:12:26thank you ingress and another one of the

1:12:29things that I that I find so fascinating

1:12:31about this game is that you

1:12:34new in the areas in which i work for

1:12:37example it knew of some landmarks that

1:12:40are relevant to people who know the area

1:12:43really well but are completely

1:12:46unremarkable and relevant to anyone that

1:12:48isn't something that doesn't leave for

1:12:51work in the area in which i live in work

1:12:53and I i was wondering earlier on Twitter

1:12:55like how did they come up with these

1:12:57different spots for the gyms and for the

1:13:00pokey stops and whatnot and apparently

1:13:03the same company that did pretty much

1:13:05all of the work for this game whose name

1:13:08I'm also forgetting John niantic yeah I

1:13:10think that's right my antique thank you

1:13:12apparently ingress was a very very very

1:13:14similar game that they had done in the

1:13:17past and involved in that from what I'm

1:13:20told and again that actual particulars

1:13:22don't really matter the gist of it

1:13:24though is that you could as a player in

1:13:26the game submit like locations and

1:13:29whatnot and and from what I've

1:13:30understood they took all of that data

1:13:32and turned all of those points of

1:13:34interest that were that were made by

1:13:36people playing this game local players

1:13:38playing this game and turn those into

1:13:40the gyms and the pokey stops and whatnot

1:13:42and again the game on an awful stick

1:13:44with it it's certainly one of those like

1:13:46everyone's talking about it so I feel

1:13:48like I'm missing out if I don't also

1:13:50participate lightly and you should hear

1:13:52the conversations at work about it but I

1:13:54just find this combination of all these

1:13:56different pieces cut early fascinating

1:13:58so I've been talking a long time

1:14:00Marco if John questions or thoughts i

1:14:03don't know i will bring up something

1:14:04Marco brought up in the car today when

1:14:07we were talking was about how perfect of

1:14:09a time for this game to be released

1:14:11right it's summer kids are off

1:14:14it's beautiful weather like you can be

1:14:16outside it's just it's fantastic you if

1:14:19we see a whole bunch of people gathered

1:14:21at different locations all over town

1:14:23playing this game it the the release

1:14:26timing for this couldn't have been

1:14:28better

1:14:28yeah i agree and like nothing else is

1:14:30going on there's no other major releases

1:14:32there's no major news happening no one

1:14:34else really have anything to do a lot of

1:14:35people taking vacation anyway

1:14:37it really is an amazing time release

1:14:39here and like I just want to say like in

1:14:42general my thoughts on this

1:14:44having only seen screenshots over for a

1:14:46second here and there

1:14:47I'd like to have tried to show me how

1:14:49she like threw pokeballs a pokémon's

1:14:52try to poke it into her phone so I don't

1:14:54know how the sport doesn't really matter

1:14:56sorry however it works this game like

1:15:01just seeing what it's doing the people

1:15:03in the world just makes me happy it's

1:15:05just a very delightful feeling because

1:15:07seeing that is getting the people

1:15:09outside walking around gathering

1:15:11together oftentimes with strangers and

1:15:13just like sitting and having a peaceful

1:15:14fun time that in real life in person

1:15:18that is very rare that kind of like to

1:15:21have a kind of effect and the fact that

1:15:23just took off so quickly over the

1:15:24weekend like it just boom all this on

1:15:26everyone's doing this

1:15:27that's just really delightful and it's

1:15:29it is like a nice happy like human

1:15:31interest story and I i really liked

1:15:33seeing that I mean their moms walking up

1:15:35and down the street with strollers just

1:15:36like you Casey who are playing pokemon

1:15:39go you know anything like everyone is

1:15:41playing and people start talking to each

1:15:42other about it and you notice someone

1:15:44else playing it and you talk to them and

1:15:46you're like just kind of Pokemon over

1:15:48here did you see that one not a lot you

1:15:50know I don't really care what I'm

1:15:53catching or catching them all i don't i

1:15:55don't really but I don't know I just

1:15:56kind of want to play because everyone

1:15:57else is doing it so have you guys put

1:15:59any money into the game

1:16:00not yet I haven't no no you get a lot of

1:16:03stuff just by walking around and hangout

1:16:05spots and spending the little doodad and

1:16:08plus like you have to incubate the eggs

1:16:09there's a lot to do before you have to

1:16:11put money into it and he had to walk in

1:16:13order to incubate the egg so it gives

1:16:16you a distance it that you have to move

1:16:18so it kind of keeps you busy

1:16:20I'm keep wondering like I realize about

1:16:22the money as I wonder what the total

1:16:24like that the net new trainers will be

1:16:26to use a business east at the guess a

1:16:29lot of people are into this game now but

1:16:30if you were already into pokemon you

1:16:33don't count because you're going to buy

1:16:34a new pokemon games where they come out

1:16:36anyway so those people already party it

1:16:38you know and this is just invested in

1:16:40the franchise right if you're not

1:16:43invested in it

1:16:44tons of people who have never played

1:16:46when we have people who've never been in

1:16:472.4 cries out because its a thing people

1:16:49doing it's a fun thing to do but i'm

1:16:53wondering if those people are going to

1:16:54be the type of people who put mine to

1:16:55the game like I don't know how the game

1:16:56is structured as a structured in a way

1:16:58that you can if you're just like I've

1:16:59never played pokemon game and

1:17:01like to seriously into it but it's kind

1:17:02of a fun thing to do and i'll just keep

1:17:04doing it

1:17:05can you just keep doing it at that pace

1:17:06without ever giving any money and you'll

1:17:08just be perfectly happy with the

1:17:09experience because that doesn't really

1:17:10benefit the game maker or Nintendo or

1:17:13anyone else particularly it seems like

1:17:15you can though like just go out on if

1:17:17you're playing it really casually i

1:17:19think what i'm seeing probably might be

1:17:21totally wrong here but the people who

1:17:23are very much in competition for the

1:17:26gyms and they are into forming their

1:17:28teams

1:17:29I'm feeling a lot of clash of clans kind

1:17:32of situation happening here is the for

1:17:34the people to get very serious about it

1:17:36if you don't put in the money then

1:17:38you're not going to find the rare

1:17:40pokemon or you're not going to be able

1:17:42to train them to a high level that's

1:17:44that's kind of what I'm seeing so if

1:17:45you're really invested in a team then

1:17:48you're going to feel that pressure to

1:17:49contribute money in order to be better

1:17:51for your team and then take control of

1:17:54these gyms but i think that the casual

1:17:56person just walking around gonna catch

1:17:58em all kind of situation might not feel

1:18:01that kind of pressure

1:18:02yeah like all these games I mean there's

1:18:04a balance you can strike with how how

1:18:05much you want people to be able to play

1:18:08before they put money in how like how

1:18:10much of a timer do you want to put on

1:18:11whatever energy mechanic to frustrate

1:18:13people you can tune a game so that even

1:18:15the most casual players so frustrated

1:18:17that you have to give up or give money

1:18:18or you can turn a game that almost no

1:18:19one feels like we need to get money but

1:18:21in the grand scheme of things

1:18:22historically these type of free-to-play

1:18:24massively multiplayer games I clash of

1:18:26clans or whatever make all their money

1:18:28from what everyone calls whales like

1:18:31that most of the money comes from a

1:18:32small group of people put a tremendous

1:18:33amount of money into them sometimes in

1:18:35like an unethical amount of money and

1:18:37that you feel bad that you're taking

1:18:38this much money from these people right

1:18:39and most people put in a piddling amount

1:18:42of money and that piddling amount could

1:18:43still be more than the dog 99 that

1:18:45people have paid for it up front like

1:18:46the pilling amount might be five dollars

1:18:48a year but five dollars these and the

1:18:50app store is a pretty good price when

1:18:52games are going for a dollar ninety-nine

1:18:54cents or whatever so I'm not like what

1:18:56I'm trying to gauge of this phenomenon

1:18:57is long-term how you know how much money

1:19:01is going to make it how many new

1:19:02customers is gonna make how many new

1:19:03pokemon players it

1:19:05make is going to build so that when next

1:19:07year comes out with a new augmented

1:19:08reality pokemon game with a different

1:19:10name

1:19:11we'll all the same people come back like

1:19:12are there people out there who have

1:19:15never been to the Pokemon franchise this

1:19:17is gonna bring them on board and i think

1:19:18there are because I think there's a lot

1:19:19of people who have never been to the

1:19:21Pokemon franchise pc historically the

1:19:23only place you can play pokemon was on

1:19:24platforms that these people have never

1:19:25owned like young people all people like

1:19:27if you've never owned a nintendo gaming

1:19:29system at all which then is plenty

1:19:31people who haven't especially and I like

1:19:33a handheld system of the board the most

1:19:35of the pokemon games and come out you

1:19:38may have never had occasion to be

1:19:40exposed this and by releasing a

1:19:41smartphone platforms vastly larger

1:19:44audience can now be exposed to pokemon

1:19:47and now maybe you're building an

1:19:49audience for the next version before

1:19:50they worry about their audience they

1:19:51have to get their servers under control

1:19:53because man that game crashes a lot it

1:19:55freezes all the time

1:19:57yeah that's that's a lot of there's a

1:19:59nintendo is very bad it online stuff

1:20:02they were very late online stuff they

1:20:04don't quite get it they're not good at

1:20:06kinda like Apple Apple is really late

1:20:07but there's not good at it anyway and

1:20:09they've been doing a lot of outsourcing

1:20:10to other companies like this

1:20:12niantic company lots of different

1:20:15companies they partner with are invested

1:20:17in or are working with on their games

1:20:19who supposedly bring the expertise that

1:20:22Nintendo doesn't have hey you guys have

1:20:24already running game exactly like this

1:20:26called ingress we want to do that but

1:20:28replace all the the BSU had before with

1:20:30pokemon right and you got the servers

1:20:32and you know how it works and you've

1:20:33done it before and that seems like a

1:20:35good idea for a small company relatively

1:20:36small company like Nintendo is compared

1:20:38to you know Microsoft or Sony to get

1:20:40this game out the door but these

1:20:42companies that they're out something to

1:20:43have also never been exposed to the

1:20:46combination of the game they knew how to

1:20:48run plus the pokemon IP that makes

1:20:51millions of people want to play it

1:20:52they weren't ready for that either so

1:20:54it's not really a clean win and as

1:20:56you've noted the servers are often down

1:20:58as a lot of people tweeting it that the

1:20:59the app itself has a lot of difficulties

1:21:04with concurrency it's very easy to

1:21:05confuse when the server is slow you can

1:21:07induce race conditions where the app is

1:21:08just hung because it wants you to click

1:21:10on a button that you can no longer see

1:21:11or you know all sorts of simple

1:21:14programming mistakes exacerbated by slow

1:21:17server response time

1:21:18its overall not making for a

1:21:20particularly convincing our messages

1:21:23that not particularly intend to like

1:21:24experience for users for all you say

1:21:26about entendo in general their console

1:21:28games are not horribly buggy and broken

1:21:31their online stuff is always horribly

1:21:33buggy and broken in this case the online

1:21:35stuff is slow and bad and also the app

1:21:37that talk to the online stuff is not

1:21:39particularly robust and yet it makes 1.6

1:21:41million dollars a day so it kind of

1:21:43calls into question whether any of that

1:21:44really matters

1:21:45well I mean it matters in that like it's

1:21:48it's not a particularly good showing for

1:21:49the company you know like it

1:21:51people it this is a good idea and people

1:21:53are going to copy it right and there are

1:21:55other eye peas that can do similar

1:21:57things right in clash of clans we also

1:21:58makes a lot of money and came before

1:22:00this and it but that was an AR type

1:22:02thing anyway who have much money they're

1:22:05making they could potentially making

1:22:06more if they weren't crashing and not

1:22:08letting people on you know like it or

1:22:09not i did alright having that bad

1:22:11reputation or having people leave the

1:22:12game because they're frustrated by

1:22:13crashing or whatever like you can always

1:22:15be making more money so it is a downside

1:22:17just set asides problems and your big

1:22:19success of like oh look a little with

1:22:21money we're making that there are still

1:22:24problems to be had there especially if

1:22:26this is the future of gaming antenna

1:22:27better get a lot better added proud

1:22:29pretty quickly the same the same way

1:22:30that Sony had to try to catch up with

1:22:31xbox live when they realized that the

1:22:33way people deal with consoles now is not

1:22:35just to plug it into your TV centre

1:22:37caption the world outside your house

1:22:38doesn't exist that wasn't the case and

1:22:41Sony was later to that the microsoft was

1:22:43a nintendo was later than all three of

1:22:45them so anyway I I think nintendo has a

1:22:49lot of work to do these partnering deals

1:22:52are fast way for them to get a game at

1:22:54that they couldn't develop on their own

1:22:55because they don't have the expertise

1:22:56but it also means that these other

1:22:57companies get a lot of the money at some

1:22:59people between the various breakdowns

1:23:00like well three percent goes the apple

1:23:02and experts goes to the developer and

1:23:03then the left over ten percent goes to

1:23:06nintendo I don't know if that was legit

1:23:07figured someone trying to do with like

1:23:09you know estimations but like that the

1:23:11upshot of the other tweet was that

1:23:13Apple's making more money from this game

1:23:14and tender with which is also not a

1:23:16great situation for nintendo so i'm

1:23:18happy to report I've just caught a TV

1:23:20and a Pidgey as I was sitting here they

1:23:22were on

1:23:22how did how to help you have all these

1:23:24better not have eaten every one of these

1:23:26pokemon at their house we have like a

1:23:28dead zone there is nothing around here

1:23:31generally speaking i have not seen one

1:23:32of the house but apparently they were

1:23:33sitting on my desk who knew but maybe

1:23:35they're the ones breaking your imac if

1:23:38you need I just feel like i'd also like

1:23:42to publicly complain that after all the

1:23:44time I spent on ramp champ

1:23:46I should be way better at catching these

1:23:48stupid pokemon with my stupid pokeballs

1:23:50then I really am

1:23:52is it possible that maybe p because we

1:23:54have a dog and you don't maybe there's a

1:23:57reason why we don't have any Pokemon

1:23:59left around the house dear and weird

1:24:01animals all over the place

1:24:02come on we should have some pokemon I'm

1:24:05just I'm just saying maybe we did have

1:24:06put them on and then hops found them and

1:24:07now we don't have pokemon it's all the

1:24:09people that live in the city is all they

1:24:10have to do is sit on the couch and

1:24:11there's like polka stops and everything

1:24:13you can like reach virtually anywhere

1:24:15and it's so frustrating I we have to

1:24:17like go places

1:24:18everything was younger I don't know what

1:24:20the heck's going on

1:24:22oh man that's awesome so I don't know I

1:24:24I I just think it's really cool that

1:24:27bits and pieces they put together in the

1:24:28timing it to your guys's point earlier

1:24:31the timing of all this and I've heard

1:24:33plenty of stories of people from all

1:24:36different walks of life coming together

1:24:38and bonding over this really kind of

1:24:41silly game and like I said you know

1:24:43certainly at work it's it's made quite

1:24:45the splash and and I know that people

1:24:48were going to launch and in the driver

1:24:51of the car with like handed her phone to

1:24:53one of the passengers so the passenger

1:24:55was like spinning the little disk thing

1:24:58on the run a pokey stops for both

1:24:59himself in the driver and then there's a

1:25:02little lake right by where I work don't

1:25:04be creepy and people are going on long

1:25:06walks around the lake to catch pokemon

1:25:07over lunch break like it's it's

1:25:09surprising how much effect this silly

1:25:11little game has had so quickly and I'm

1:25:13also a little surprised on the you

1:25:14evidently at least tried it yet but I

1:25:17know do you plan to John no i'm not a

1:25:19pokemon games though not my thing like

1:25:21soap and the the AR aspect of it is not

1:25:24enough to make me get into pokemon it's

1:25:25not like I dislike the air apart i would

1:25:27be more likely to play our game with a

1:25:29different property attached to a

1:25:31different type of game and just got into

1:25:32pokemon so now I'd all over

1:25:34LED but you have so many nice places to

1:25:36walk where you live John like it's so

1:25:38easy just kind of go on a little family

1:25:40trot you could all catch some pokemon

1:25:41together it'd be great i considered

1:25:44having my kids play it and like seeing

1:25:46if they get into it because you know i

1:25:48don't have to be playing I can't be with

1:25:49them on the Walk of the market tells me

1:25:51that's not a fun thing to know don't you

1:25:52like yeah my I didn't have my phone to

1:25:55Adam when marco was getting mad while he

1:25:57was sitting in the stroller I'm like all

1:25:58right you need to look at this and tell

1:26:00me if you see any little animals popping

1:26:02up and then you tell mommy i tried to

1:26:06put him to work but you know what you're

1:26:08gonna do is for so in the olden days

1:26:10people would put their kids to work like

1:26:12you know plowing a field or something

1:26:13and this is what we just get to work at

1:26:16some pokemon from mama mama needs that

1:26:18pokemon gold farm and free-to-play a

1:26:23massively multiplayer games that's next

1:26:26alright i think i think we're probably

1:26:28good here

1:26:29alright so thank you very much to our

1:26:31sponsors this week betterment hover and

1:26:34kingdom and thank you very much active

1:26:35for joining us thanks guys

1:26:37it's always a pleasure anyway alright

1:26:39thanks everyone and we'll talk to you

1:26:41next week

1:26:42now the show is over they didn't even

1:26:47mean to be in because it was accidental

1:26:52it was accidental John racer Margo and

1:26:57Casey wouldn't let him because it was

1:27:00accidentally was accidental and you can

1:27:06find the show know today p dot and if

1:27:11your twitter you can follow them

1:27:15yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a

1:27:21co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC

1:27:28Syracuse

1:27:41as anything fun in the neutral world I

1:27:48has already been pretty scandals

1:27:50volkswagen Tesla there have been on

1:27:53autopilot or whatever they call it

1:27:55issues

1:27:56yeah I don't know the details of any of

1:27:58these other crashes but it's pretty

1:28:01clear to me that this is not intended to

1:28:04be a don't pay attention to what's going

1:28:07on in front of you sort of autopilot new

1:28:09advert really great post about this a

1:28:10little while ago Marco I don't see why

1:28:14these are happening all the time unless

1:28:15these are human failings on top of

1:28:18computer failings

1:28:19I don't know I just feel like this is

1:28:20kind of a non-story that's what I mean

1:28:22we with the main the main conclusion

1:28:24here so far is that we don't really know

1:28:27enough yet about any of these accidents

1:28:29to really know like whether the system

1:28:31was at fault or the person was a fall

1:28:33like the big one that came out like two

1:28:36weeks ago whenever that was where where

1:28:37the guy hit the truck like when under

1:28:39the truck

1:28:40mhm that one allegedly he was watching

1:28:43harry potter like the movie instead of

1:28:47watching the road so you could argue

1:28:50that the system should have seen the

1:28:51truck and stop but the fact that the

1:28:53driver might not have been even looking

1:28:55at the road at all i think kind of

1:28:57excuses assistant some degree from fault

1:29:00of that particular accident but the main

1:29:02the main problem here is that this

1:29:05system is not fully autonomous driving

1:29:09it is not a self-driving car and people

1:29:12keep kind of trying to treat it like one

1:29:14and that's just irresponsible you know

1:29:16that's it is basically advanced cruise

1:29:19control

1:29:20you wouldn't like it if people do the

1:29:22same thing with cruise control or if

1:29:24they just stopped paying attention for

1:29:25watching a movie with cruise control

1:29:26which i'm sure people have done and have

1:29:28gotten accidents as a result of that

1:29:31that's not a problem with the cruise

1:29:33control

1:29:34you know that's a problem with the

1:29:35people and autopilot wanted to direct

1:29:38comparison there because first of all I

1:29:42do think that it has been named and

1:29:44marketed in such a way to imply that

1:29:46it's smarter more capable it really is

1:29:48but the fact is it's still required to

1:29:50pay attention and they they tell you

1:29:52that you know when you turn it on

1:29:55activate tell you that in the dash it

1:29:57measures how much I think it's measuring

1:29:58resistance on the steering wheel because

1:30:00like when it's on its tears for you and

1:30:03and if you steer in a way that it

1:30:06wouldn't have buy more than like you

1:30:08know a certain amount of degrees of

1:30:10turning the wheel it deactivates itself

1:30:12and like beeps to tell you it's off so

1:30:15it has a way to measure the turning of

1:30:16the wheel and the resistance that you're

1:30:18putting on the wheel and as far as i can

1:30:20tell it's using that to determine

1:30:21whether your hands are on the wheel

1:30:22around so if you don't provide any

1:30:23justice for a while it will yell at you

1:30:26and then gradually slow down and stop if

1:30:28you don't intervene

1:30:29anyway I the system isn't a really weird

1:30:32kind of like uncanny valley kind of

1:30:36thing

1:30:37notnot the uncanny valley technically

1:30:38but like that kind of concept we're like

1:30:40it's it's so good it's so autonomous

1:30:43that it kind of encourages you not

1:30:47directly not verbally it doesn't come

1:30:49out and say it but like you are kind of

1:30:51encouraged to stop paying attention

1:30:52because you just kind of see like you

1:30:54know what my inputs not really needed

1:30:55here for a while but it's not good

1:30:58enough that you actually can stop paying

1:31:00attention responsibly and safely for

1:31:03very long if any time at all and some

1:31:06people are being completed the idiots

1:31:07with it and like getting in the backseat

1:31:09with hot something i don't know that

1:31:11people are crazy I mean that's that is

1:31:13not at all safe and nobody here because

1:31:14they're gonna kill somebody but the

1:31:17design of the system is such that the

1:31:18system is not really helping because

1:31:20like it is a little bit too smart for a

1:31:25system that people are supposed to still

1:31:27pay attention to the road while using it

1:31:28but again it's not smart enough that you

1:31:30actually can't stop so it seems weird

1:31:32kind of gray area and I also as I said

1:31:35in my post I think it should not be

1:31:38allowed on side roads i think it should

1:31:41only be allowed on interstates and maybe

1:31:43on other divided highways it right now

1:31:45you can enable it on any road and the

1:31:47only thing is that when it is not on

1:31:49what it detects as being a highway or is

1:31:52being divided highway understate it

1:31:53limits itself 25 miles per hour over the

1:31:56posted speed limit signs so you can

1:31:58still use it you just can't speed by

1:32:00more than 5 so that's not really that

1:32:02much of a limit really and it prevents

1:32:05what people were initially doing when it

1:32:06first came out and people were being all

1:32:07crazy

1:32:08trying to use it like going really fast

1:32:09on twisty side roads that was also

1:32:12really dumb and dangerous but uh I think

1:32:16it needs more restrictions because

1:32:17because like you know as I said in my

1:32:18post like it doesn't it doesn't read

1:32:20like red lights or stop signs or

1:32:23anything like that so like the

1:32:24usefulness of it on side roads is pretty

1:32:27limited anyway it really should only be

1:32:29allowed on interstates in my opinion to

1:32:31take the certain kind of person to like

1:32:33to know all that I presume all these

1:32:35people know about this them and yet

1:32:37still like to be so I don't know it to

1:32:41wish the technology into existence

1:32:43doesn't that doesn't actually exist or

1:32:44two to like it because from my

1:32:47perspective if you know that you may be

1:32:50asked to take over control of the car

1:32:51loses track of the road right you know

1:32:54that like intellectually I bet all these

1:32:55people understand that about the

1:32:57autopilot thing because it tells you on

1:32:58the screen and like they these are

1:33:00probably you know Tesla owners who know

1:33:01all about it like most tests loners are

1:33:03into their cars because it's a very rare

1:33:04car it's an expensive car you're not

1:33:06just find yourself owning a Tesla right

1:33:08everything makes me think that these

1:33:10people know that they will be asked to

1:33:12take over control if you know something

1:33:15goes wrong and I know because of my

1:33:17personality type if I was driving in a

1:33:19car where I knew that I would have to be

1:33:21a steak over something went wrong you

1:33:23don't know when that's going to be

1:33:24that's the nature of the event you don't

1:33:26know okay in five minutes you're gonna

1:33:28be a stakeout could be at any second

1:33:30how do you know when it is that you will

1:33:32be asked to take over how do you know

1:33:34when you will decide that you need to

1:33:36take over because a kid ran out into the

1:33:38road and the system didn't see him or

1:33:39what you know what everything like the

1:33:40truck to the guy went under like it

1:33:43the only way you will know is if you are

1:33:45always continually paying attention

1:33:47you can't stop paying attention for a

1:33:49second just like regular driving because

1:33:51you don't know when that event will come

1:33:53so it seems to me that there should be

1:33:55zero change in behavior when driving

1:33:57with the system but as Marco said that's

1:33:59not how people act and somehow they're

1:34:01able to square the idea that they may be

1:34:03asked to take over to second with the

1:34:05idea that they don't have to pay

1:34:06attention because it seems like they'll

1:34:07never be asked but you know you might be

1:34:09asked but it seems like you won't be and

1:34:10I have been asked for a long time so

1:34:12your brain decides you know what I'm

1:34:14never going to be asked to take over

1:34:15everything will be fine and then you get

1:34:17your head chopped off by semi right like

1:34:19then you think that you think you can

1:34:20watch a movie right

1:34:21and maybe that's just like a trap for

1:34:23people's brains where they're like I

1:34:26know intellectually that i may be asked

1:34:27to take over control at any moment but

1:34:29my lizard brain is telling me that I

1:34:31haven't been asked to do anything with

1:34:33this car for the last hour and I just

1:34:35cannot sustain the attention right

1:34:37whereas if you're a paranoid person like

1:34:39me and you like it's been an hour before

1:34:42it since I've been asked to take over

1:34:43it's you know it's gonna happen any

1:34:45second right you don't like you just

1:34:46becoming more and more paranoid but

1:34:47regular people i think are just that is

1:34:50just signal for you to stop paying

1:34:51attention and if you think you know what

1:34:52I'm probably play a card game i can

1:34:54watch a movie like they tell me I'm

1:34:56gonna be asked to take over but you know

1:34:57what maybe they're just low-balling it

1:34:59because of lawyers it's probably better

1:35:01than I think it is i'll probably be fine

1:35:03now I'm decapitated by his time you know

1:35:05it so I i agree with Marco they like

1:35:08until you like this may be a trap for

1:35:12human nature this may be a set of rules

1:35:15that is not compatible with with way

1:35:18humans work right so you have to say

1:35:21look you've gotta steer and everything

1:35:24else is like radar control cruise

1:35:25control and then there's a gap and then

1:35:28we do for autonomous right because i

1:35:31don't understand I don't not sure that

1:35:33maybe habits will change if this becomes

1:35:36widespread but i'm not sure that this

1:35:38particular set of features will survive

1:35:40both the lawyers and the public

1:35:42perception long enough for people to

1:35:45change their habits and it could be that

1:35:47hat changing habits is not sufficient

1:35:48and this is just it's human nature

1:35:50you're going to stop paying attention if

1:35:51you haven't had to do anything in the

1:35:53car for an hour and that's when you're

1:35:54gonna die I would never enable the

1:35:57speech by the way i would do radio radar

1:35:58cruise control because you're cool like

1:36:00you're like oh well cruise control same

1:36:01thing you know how to do anything four

1:36:02hours know you still have to steer even

1:36:04on the road yet to steer a little bit

1:36:05and if you're going 70 miles an hour and

1:36:08you don't make that tiny steering input

1:36:10very shortly you will be in a ditch

1:36:12right you have to be paying attention

1:36:13right and just that little bit of

1:36:15realizing this huge early hunk of metal

1:36:18is under my control and even though i

1:36:20don't have to do much have to do

1:36:21something that is enough to keep the

1:36:23tiny sort of subconscious even if it's

1:36:25not like fully conscious like I really

1:36:27paying attention their subconscious

1:36:28driving and that subconscious driving a

1:36:30semi polls in front of you you will

1:36:32notice like this your eyes or out

1:36:33without going up the win

1:36:35shield looking at the road not looking

1:36:37at harry potter and the thing like that

1:36:39I guess I was like the difference

1:36:41between the difference and usefulness to

1:36:43the driver between the radar cruise

1:36:46control that you get also and the auto

1:36:49steer autopilot mode is like the auto

1:36:52store doesn't really make it that much

1:36:54nicer for the driver like you get the

1:36:56vast majority of the value of these

1:36:58features with just the cruise control

1:37:00part of it the radar cruise control

1:37:01because it it will stop and go it'll

1:37:04maintain proper distance it uses all the

1:37:06same hardware as far as i know like to

1:37:08do this it is a very advanced system

1:37:11like okay like I've tried the 16 car

1:37:13that's a 3-series I tried the adaptive

1:37:15cruise in that a few times in a few

1:37:17trips and it's it's almost as good but

1:37:19not as good the Tesla adaptive cruise is

1:37:21really good

1:37:22it is amazing and the BMW one I had a

1:37:25couple of a little unsettling incidents

1:37:27where like the car would start

1:37:29accelerating hard in traffic and they

1:37:31were still a car in front of us and I

1:37:33had to like override wait stop then

1:37:35break that is not happen once in the

1:37:37test and I used it way more in the Tesla

1:37:39it is a really amazing system for the

1:37:42event that they have adaptive cruise

1:37:43control the autopilot on the other hand

1:37:46is that you know the auto steer part of

1:37:48it is scary and and I use that a lot to

1:37:51have been using it more even since I

1:37:53published that post you just kind of

1:37:54things kind of get an idea of like you

1:37:56know do i have the wrong impression do

1:37:57is be more time with it really get to

1:37:59know it better and so far no III don't

1:38:02need more time together to get an open

1:38:04to get to know better i still do use it

1:38:06on the highway here and there but i'm

1:38:09still I still can't trust it because

1:38:13sometimes it does things that i consider

1:38:15dangerous and whether academically it is

1:38:19dangerous or not I don't know but you

1:38:20know just things like getting too close

1:38:21to the edge of the lane when there's a

1:38:23car right in the other side or a barrier

1:38:25to the side like it does not keep you

1:38:27centered perfectly it tries to end it

1:38:30was doing some kind of smoothing I think

1:38:31we're trying to like not jerky too hard

1:38:33and you know to keep you centered so

1:38:35like kind of smoothie over and you know

1:38:37and you can like drift toward the lines

1:38:39and then drift back from the line like

1:38:41it's it's a little unsettling a lot of

1:38:44times where i will get a little too

1:38:45close to things and especially like if

1:38:47there's a car

1:38:48next to you and in the lane next to you

1:38:50that is too close to the line their side

1:38:53it doesn't it'll still drifting that

1:38:55line like I don't know how to tell him

1:38:57that if it's if it's just the ultrasonic

1:38:59sensors on the side it might be it might

1:39:00be too far detective which would be a

1:39:02little unsettling it's it's not it's

1:39:05it's a system that makes me nervous

1:39:07whenever it's on it also does things

1:39:09like you know like what I'm driving on a

1:39:12multi-lane highway no matter no matter

1:39:15what speeds we are going i will not hang

1:39:18out in somebody's blind spot i will

1:39:20speed up or slow down so that i am not

1:39:23like right next to in the car in the

1:39:25next Lane over or like right you know

1:39:27slightly behind them in there but i will

1:39:28not hang out there because I know like

1:39:30you you develop your skills as a

1:39:32responsible driver over time you start

1:39:33realizing like okay well I should

1:39:35minimize the chances that i'm going to

1:39:38get hit you know so thick that and even

1:39:41if i can legally stay right here this

1:39:43person's blind spot for a while I

1:39:45shouldn't do that because they could

1:39:47merge and not see me if I if I hang out

1:39:49here for a while that's not good so I

1:39:51won't do it

1:39:52the auto steer and auto drive they don't

1:39:54have that kind of intelligence that they

1:39:56they will not do things like that to to

1:39:58avoid possible accidents you know that

1:40:00haven't started to happen yet like they

1:40:02won't minimize the chance of danger

1:40:04though just happily go and you might be

1:40:06hanging out and somebody blind spot for

1:40:0710 minutes and not even know it

1:40:09it does kind of create this this

1:40:12expectation that it's going to be super

1:40:13safe and awesome and and his is the best

1:40:16thing to use and you don't have to pay

1:40:18attention but i don't know how many of

1:40:20those things are true and I suspect not

1:40:22all of them you're wise to get nervous

1:40:24too because like again when you're when

1:40:26you're surrendering control of the car

1:40:28it's getting close to the edge lane what

1:40:29you know and that the cars is not

1:40:31currently designed to have any awareness

1:40:34up is that you have just come fractions

1:40:37of a second closer to you know to you

1:40:41getting into an accident right because

1:40:43so if there is some erroneous steering

1:40:44input or the car gets confused for a

1:40:46moment fractions of a second matter and

1:40:48like you being in the middle of the lane

1:40:50and the car suddenly lurched is a foot

1:40:51to the left if you're paying attention

1:40:53as you should be your reaction time is

1:40:55probably enough to keep you in the lane

1:40:56you riding the line and you're paying

1:40:59attention and the car lurches to the

1:41:00left

1:41:01it could be the year

1:41:02reaction time even if you're paying a

1:41:03hundred percent attention but attention

1:41:04your reaction time is not sufficient to

1:41:07get your car before it's the guardrail

1:41:09or runs into a bridge abutment or who

1:41:11knows what else like as you get closer

1:41:13to the edge of the high-speed things

1:41:14happen really fast human reaction time

1:41:16is only so fast there's a reason we

1:41:18don't ride the edges of the lanes

1:41:20because we know that our own reaction

1:41:21time is not sufficient reason we don't

1:41:23you know grabbed it unless real jerks

1:41:25within a foot of someone else's bummer

1:41:27because we know our reaction time is not

1:41:29fast enough and 80 miles an hour to make

1:41:31that stop no matter how slowly the

1:41:32person in front of our stops it's just

1:41:34you know you can do a little time is how

1:41:36long does it take for you to move your

1:41:37foot over to the brake pedal start

1:41:39pressing it down like you distances get

1:41:43covered very quickly at high speed so

1:41:44the highways exactly the spot where you

1:41:46wouldn't want that are you saying like I

1:41:48think it's safer to have it on this

1:41:49highway the side roads at least decide

1:41:50what you're going slower speeds so it

1:41:52does make a mistake you can correct it

1:41:53relative speeds that like the person

1:41:55hitting you on the highway is probably

1:41:57gonna hit you a relative speed of like

1:41:59five miles an hour but it's not that

1:42:00it's not the hitting you with you

1:42:01hitting bridge abutment you going off to

1:42:03dinner yes that's the type of thing are

1:42:04you going under a semi or whatever it's

1:42:06all moving vehicle versus stationary

1:42:08hazard with a stationary hazards that

1:42:10truck crossing over or whatever

1:42:12whereas everything being a slower speed

1:42:14you know anyway I I would never been

1:42:18able to do things like it starts to

1:42:20bring it towards the edges lane you're

1:42:21like wait a second I would never do this

1:42:23if I was driving the car because i know

1:42:25that my reaction time is not fast enough

1:42:27like why would i be riding the edge even

1:42:29just like debris that's gonna pop a tire

1:42:31and like pulled me off his life and

1:42:32that's taking out of the equation the

1:42:34idea that the car might someone get

1:42:36confused and turn in a weird direction

1:42:37or start accelerating or decelerating

1:42:39like that's just just me driving the car

1:42:42in my complete control

1:42:43I wouldn't ride the edge of line because

1:42:44i know that's dumb and you know we're

1:42:46coming up on the bridge now I'm gonna

1:42:48take off my side mirror like I wouldn't

1:42:50do that and to let a car do it and to

1:42:53know that during that time the car is

1:42:55still in control and can do something

1:42:56weird just it's just a terrible idea to

1:42:59to deal with the system at all like

1:43:01drive your car or don't drive your car

1:43:03and currently we don't have the option

1:43:04of not driving your car so just drive

1:43:06your car