The Accidental Tech Podcast

171: WWDC Is Not Santa Claus


00:00:00   egg salad is not delicious salt and [TS]

00:00:02   mayonnaise are delicious that's what [TS]

00:00:04   you're tasting exiled is not delicious [TS]

00:00:06   salads awesome are you talking about [TS]

00:00:07   exhales good exhales fine it's not too [TS]

00:00:10   late i wouldn't am NOT going to rave [TS]

00:00:11   about it [TS]

00:00:12   that's ridiculous a it's delicious but [TS]

00:00:13   it's quite good what exactly it's not [TS]

00:00:15   delicious see I i went through several [TS]

00:00:17   containers of your actual chicken salad [TS]

00:00:19   which is good is your chicken salad but [TS]

00:00:22   i also had egg salad to compare with him [TS]

00:00:24   when it came time like somebody can tell [TS]

00:00:25   you know like you feel like you have a [TS]

00:00:27   preference you go either way depending [TS]

00:00:28   on the mood for when I came time to pick [TS]

00:00:30   is kinda leaning towards the eggs out a [TS]

00:00:31   lot it's the yolks man that's what does [TS]

00:00:33   it's the yolks we should talk about [TS]

00:00:37   t-shirts all right yeah so it was late [TS]

00:00:41   breaking news after we had recorded that [TS]

00:00:44   we were able to get everything squared [TS]

00:00:45   away between ourselves with cotton [TS]

00:00:48   bureau who who have been excellent so [TS]

00:00:50   far so many things to je and timmy [TS]

00:00:52   cotton bureau we have two shirts up for [TS]

00:00:55   sale in case you haven't heard or [TS]

00:00:57   haven't looked [TS]

00:00:58   one of them which we kind of call [TS]

00:00:59   watches is inspired by ricardo melo's [TS]

00:01:06   tweet and then j designed it is pixel [TS]

00:01:09   art as everyone expected [TS]

00:01:11   John has thoughts about this pixel art [TS]

00:01:13   but it's the three of us with our [TS]

00:01:15   respective choices of wristwear and then [TS]

00:01:18   the other one is just kind of our logo [TS]

00:01:21   shirt which is kind of combination of [TS]

00:01:24   our automotive heritage and our current [TS]

00:01:26   are our automotive and current in and [TS]

00:01:30   macintosh heritage for those of us who [TS]

00:01:32   around in the six colors days which is [TS]

00:01:34   basically just John so they'll be up for [TS]

00:01:37   sale and so what third of june i believe [TS]

00:01:39   so as this episode is released probably [TS]

00:01:42   about another week [TS]

00:01:43   don't delay don't forget I cannot tell [TS]

00:01:46   you how many people have said after the [TS]

00:01:48   last round of shirts went up [TS]

00:01:50   oh yeah just never watched never pulled [TS]

00:01:52   the trigger on ordering it i just forgot [TS]

00:01:54   and so can you make them again no we [TS]

00:01:56   can't so pull the trigger as you're [TS]

00:01:59   thinking of it [TS]

00:02:00   get yourselves a shirt if you want i am [TS]

00:02:03   really happy with this year shirts [TS]

00:02:04   especially since up until like a week [TS]

00:02:06   and a half before they went up for sale [TS]

00:02:09   we had no freaking clue what to do for [TS]

00:02:10   shirts so I'm really happy with them [TS]

00:02:13   and you should buy one to support the [TS]

00:02:14   show so thanks everyone who has one and [TS]

00:02:16   everyone who will buy one [TS]

00:02:18   yeah thank you so far we haven't [TS]

00:02:19   repeated any shirts so again the same [TS]

00:02:22   thing like you I don't know for maybe [TS]

00:02:24   we'll this from this year on we'll just [TS]

00:02:26   review the same sure it's over again but [TS]

00:02:27   so far we haven't repeated any so if [TS]

00:02:29   you'd like one of the shirts don't [TS]

00:02:30   assume i'll just buy an extra because it [TS]

00:02:32   might not be the next year or it might [TS]

00:02:33   but anyway same will have a critical [TS]

00:02:36   shirts that I sold just once and I still [TS]

00:02:38   get people to me to this day take the [TS]

00:02:39   years later like I missed out buying [TS]

00:02:41   those shirts [TS]

00:02:42   i mean--and and make no mistake these [TS]

00:02:45   are expensive t-shirts especially your [TS]

00:02:47   shipping them especially if you're [TS]

00:02:48   shipping them far away all podcasters [TS]

00:02:50   expensive i know i have i have literally [TS]

00:02:52   at boxes in the Attic filled with [TS]

00:02:54   podcast and website t-shirts but they're [TS]

00:02:58   cool to have and in the grand scheme of [TS]

00:03:01   things they're actually pretty rare [TS]

00:03:02   because who listens to weird technology [TS]

00:03:04   podcast and then who buys a t-shirt for [TS]

00:03:06   a technique party is not a lot of people [TS]

00:03:07   so I kind of machine we didn't make it [TS]

00:03:09   for WotC but I think they're fun shirts [TS]

00:03:12   and I have had a question for you guys [TS]

00:03:14   we haven't talked about this on twitter [TS]

00:03:15   we have no one I believe has spelled out [TS]

00:03:18   the visual metaphor of the ATP logo [TS]

00:03:23   shirt and I have been hesitant to do so [TS]

00:03:25   because I feel like explaining it kind [TS]

00:03:27   of makes it worse but maybe I'm wrong [TS]

00:03:29   maybe people maybe people would be more [TS]

00:03:31   excited about the sheriff the understood [TS]

00:03:32   what we were going for [TS]

00:03:34   so would you like to explain yeah it's [TS]

00:03:36   pretty obvious connection if you're in [TS]

00:03:37   the right mindset but if you're not [TS]

00:03:38   thinking that way might not occur to you [TS]

00:03:40   and of course you don't know anything [TS]

00:03:41   about cars and you don't care then like [TS]

00:03:43   explaining to someone who does know [TS]

00:03:44   anything about cars [TS]

00:03:45   it's pointless because they don't care [TS]

00:03:46   right yeah so I guess we're not [TS]

00:03:48   explaining it when people feel free [TS]

00:03:50   alright well okay well since ing [TS]

00:03:51   summarizer in chief yeah exactly so [TS]

00:03:54   since I'm the only current at BWW owner [TS]

00:03:56   this is a play on the BMW M symbol which [TS]

00:04:01   will put a link to that in the show [TS]

00:04:03   notes basically BMW M is there uh [TS]

00:04:06   motorsports group and so Marcos and five [TS]

00:04:09   which we've talked about ad nauseam on [TS]

00:04:11   the show and certainly was kind of the [TS]

00:04:13   driving art behind neutral the way that [TS]

00:04:17   logo looks is it's three colors and [TS]

00:04:19   there's a story behind them i think one [TS]

00:04:21   was bavaria one was texaco which had a [TS]

00:04:24   deal with BMW at the time [TS]

00:04:25   m was created and one was just like a [TS]

00:04:28   purple to kind of blend the two so Jay [TS]

00:04:30   at cotton bureau completely on his own [TS]

00:04:33   accord like with zero input from us [TS]

00:04:35   thought oh well I can take the six [TS]

00:04:38   colors from the original mac and then do [TS]

00:04:42   a kind of stylized ATP and kind of blend [TS]

00:04:45   our automotive history coming out of [TS]

00:04:47   neutral and get like old-school Mac [TS]

00:04:50   flare going and get kind of a mash-up of [TS]

00:04:53   the both and you keep saying Mac like [TS]

00:04:55   those are like those pc users who say [TS]

00:04:57   you like mac computers is Mac making an [TS]

00:05:00   ipod now in all categories into the mac [TS]

00:05:02   store and you know captain iron Mac [TS]

00:05:04   makes phones now I'm sorry to offend you [TS]

00:05:07   old man what was the appropriate the [TS]

00:05:09   apple logo it's the rainbow striped [TS]

00:05:10   apple logo it's a logo they had really [TS]

00:05:12   like the first you know 15 or whatever [TS]

00:05:14   years of the company's existence [TS]

00:05:16   fair enough I I regret the air thank you [TS]

00:05:18   and god I'm gonna get so many emails but [TS]

00:05:20   I saved you from the emails now feel [TS]

00:05:21   like it's been addressed my apologies [TS]

00:05:24   for that but anyway the point being that [TS]

00:05:26   it's a combination of the original apple [TS]

00:05:28   logo and the BMW m logo or inspired not [TS]

00:05:32   the original apple logo I'm saving you [TS]

00:05:34   again wonderful original apple logo was [TS]

00:05:38   that was that pen-and-ink drawing of the [TS]

00:05:40   guy under the tree for you some emails [TS]

00:05:44   and quick anyway yeah i was telling a [TS]

00:05:47   double selling t-shirts with the [TS]

00:05:49   original apple logo on them along with [TS]

00:05:51   the rainbow stripes apple logo and a [TS]

00:05:53   bunch of icons and other stuff on their [TS]

00:05:56   40th anniversary i tried to get some [TS]

00:05:57   tried to have my minions in cupertino [TS]

00:05:59   buy them from the apple store infinite [TS]

00:06:01   loop but they were too late they were [TS]

00:06:03   sold out [TS]

00:06:03   yeah actually we have millions there I [TS]

00:06:06   need somebody get me some pens for tiff [TS]

00:06:07   but yeah you know I have mins maybe you [TS]

00:06:10   find in any case so please uh if you [TS]

00:06:14   have if you have the means by shirt also [TS]

00:06:16   a John alluded to touched on this [TS]

00:06:18   earlier but we do understand i know it [TS]

00:06:20   doesn't sound like we do but we do [TS]

00:06:21   understand that shipping is extremely [TS]

00:06:24   expensive across the pond and we are [TS]

00:06:26   genuinely very sorry for that in hand on [TS]

00:06:28   heart we weighed that as as a con when [TS]

00:06:31   deciding how to do the t-shirts this [TS]

00:06:33   year there are other t-shirt vendors [TS]

00:06:35   that that people use that we have used [TS]

00:06:38   that have [TS]

00:06:38   I have overseas presses or printing or [TS]

00:06:41   whatever you call it [TS]

00:06:42   we wanted to go a different route this [TS]

00:06:45   year and try something different and I [TS]

00:06:48   really really really appreciate anyone [TS]

00:06:51   from Europe or Asia or really anywhere [TS]

00:06:53   other than North America that is bought [TS]

00:06:55   one of these shirts because I know [TS]

00:06:57   shipping is just out of control and I am [TS]

00:06:59   sorry for that but look at it this way [TS]

00:07:01   these shirts i am super proud of them [TS]

00:07:04   and if it wasn't for Jay at cotton [TS]

00:07:05   bureau they would not looking anywhere [TS]

00:07:08   near as good [TS]

00:07:09   you should see the the illustration [TS]

00:07:11   Marco sent as a as a like save that yeah [TS]

00:07:15   great example of patent hands yeah it's [TS]

00:07:18   really just as an example of what we [TS]

00:07:21   gave jay with regard to the to the three [TS]

00:07:24   hands with three risks especially bad i [TS]

00:07:26   mean I wasn't I would have done worse [TS]

00:07:28   i'm not trying to like throw stones i [TS]

00:07:30   would have done much worse job but that [TS]

00:07:32   illustration with respect marco was [TS]

00:07:33   pretty freakin bad and Jay made it [TS]

00:07:35   because because the best of the best [TS]

00:07:37   part about it is that he meticulously [TS]

00:07:38   drew i'm assuming on the ipad ya go with [TS]

00:07:42   like the pencil he meticulously drew his [TS]

00:07:44   watch was like that's really cares about [TS]

00:07:45   that haha and a hand with these [TS]

00:07:47   misshapen mutant paddles it's like hands [TS]

00:07:50   hands whatever I can't draw what you [TS]

00:07:52   spent so long and that watch I'm going [TS]

00:07:54   to see you like zooming in and carefully [TS]

00:07:56   drawing the hands trying to draw your [TS]

00:07:57   beautiful little Swiss whatever-the-hell [TS]

00:07:59   watch it is and then the hands are just [TS]

00:08:01   a mess [TS]

00:08:01   first of all that is not a separate that [TS]

00:08:03   is not like an exact representation of [TS]

00:08:04   any of my watches and I didn't take that [TS]

00:08:06   Wonder you took longer than expected [TS]

00:08:09   draw the quote-unquote hands [TS]

00:08:11   yeah well yeah so suffice to say it look [TS]

00:08:15   in the show notes you can see marcos [TS]

00:08:17   original illustration to j and we never [TS]

00:08:20   told him pixel art or anything he just [TS]

00:08:22   took that upon himself and did a just [TS]

00:08:24   killer job with it so I again just to [TS]

00:08:27   bring this back around and try to redeem [TS]

00:08:29   myself summarizer in chief [TS]

00:08:31   we are very sorry about the shipping [TS]

00:08:32   costs we really truly are and we are [TS]

00:08:34   super appreciative of anyone to buy [TS]

00:08:36   shirts but particularly those overseas [TS]

00:08:37   and because i know it is a big ask and [TS]

00:08:40   and I wewe really thank you and [TS]

00:08:43   hopefully if we do shirts again next [TS]

00:08:44   year we'll have some different mechanism [TS]

00:08:47   for doing this but no guarantees we'll [TS]

00:08:49   see how it goes [TS]

00:08:50   moving right along we should prob [TS]

00:08:52   we do some follow-up place Jacobson I'm [TS]

00:08:56   so sorry i had written in don't know if [TS]

00:08:59   this was via Twitter or an email but [TS]

00:09:01   they said after submitting a burst of 20 [TS]

00:09:05   installs is submitting an iOS app a [TS]

00:09:07   burst of 20 installs from California [TS]

00:09:09   occurs this has happened recently but [TS]

00:09:11   did not happen between october in [TS]

00:09:13   February so perhaps there's some sort of [TS]

00:09:16   automated testing going on when you [TS]

00:09:18   submit to the appstore more than just [TS]

00:09:20   like the checking for private api's and [TS]

00:09:21   things like that [TS]

00:09:22   more recent are more rigorous or perhaps [TS]

00:09:25   more timely a automated testing that [TS]

00:09:28   that's another theory is none that the [TS]

00:09:30   following year that I heard a lot is [TS]

00:09:31   that a lot of people under the [TS]

00:09:32   impression i'm not sure if its founder [TS]

00:09:34   not that the delays in review like you [TS]

00:09:37   you know in the olden days several [TS]

00:09:39   months ago you'd submit an application [TS]

00:09:40   and take like a week or whatever to get [TS]

00:09:43   through the review process and a lot of [TS]

00:09:45   people think that's because Apple [TS]

00:09:47   intentionally doesn't look at your [TS]

00:09:48   application for a long time [TS]

00:09:50   ah as a form of training to make you [TS]

00:09:53   think I think twice before you submit [TS]

00:09:55   don't waste our time submitting your [TS]

00:09:57   application if you're not super duper [TS]

00:09:59   sure that it's ready to go up and to [TS]

00:10:01   teach you that lesson [TS]

00:10:02   no matter when you submit we're just [TS]

00:10:03   going to sit on and do nothing even if [TS]

00:10:04   we don't have anything else to do even [TS]

00:10:06   if we have a capacity we're just going [TS]

00:10:07   to intentionally ignore your app for a [TS]

00:10:08   week just to teach you a lesson to say [TS]

00:10:10   see it's always going to take at least a [TS]

00:10:12   week so don't submit in haste always you [TS]

00:10:14   know make sure your i's are dotted and [TS]

00:10:16   your T's are crossed that doesn't sound [TS]

00:10:19   like something that makes sense to me [TS]

00:10:21   for Apple as a business to do so maybe I [TS]

00:10:25   don't again I don't know if these [TS]

00:10:26   reports were based on inside information [TS]

00:10:28   or testing or theories or whatever just [TS]

00:10:31   feeling like it but that doesn't strike [TS]

00:10:32   me as something that reasonable maybe if [TS]

00:10:37   there was something like that it would [TS]

00:10:38   be like we don't bother looking your [TS]

00:10:40   application for the first four hours to [TS]

00:10:41   give you a chance to think better out if [TS]

00:10:43   you're actually submitted but i can't [TS]

00:10:44   imagine them sitting out and not doing [TS]

00:10:46   anything for a week so I'm still [TS]

00:10:48   thinking that the decreased review times [TS]

00:10:53   have to be the result of something that [TS]

00:10:55   Apple's intentionally doing because they [TS]

00:10:56   want the review times to be shorter not [TS]

00:10:58   longer [TS]

00:10:59   well I mean there was so this this past [TS]

00:11:01   week on the talk show Rene Ritchie was [TS]

00:11:03   the guests with John Gruber [TS]

00:11:05   and renamed they were talking about this [TS]

00:11:08   and and you could kind of tell that [TS]

00:11:09   renee has information about this that he [TS]

00:11:12   has heard in the best friend anyway he [TS]

00:11:15   basically like suggest what the [TS]

00:11:17   information is generally the content of [TS]

00:11:19   what category it is but doesn't actually [TS]

00:11:21   tell you anything to get him anybody [TS]

00:11:23   else in trouble but it basically sounds [TS]

00:11:25   like there was a significant management [TS]

00:11:29   change in a preview likes in some kind [TS]

00:11:32   of like and it wasn't this wasn't built [TS]

00:11:34   ignore the app store but it might have [TS]

00:11:35   been you know related to that in some [TS]

00:11:37   way but like it wasn't that change but [TS]

00:11:39   it was like some other changes that [TS]

00:11:41   happened [TS]

00:11:42   further down the line in a preview that [TS]

00:11:44   basically got some people out of the way [TS]

00:11:47   who would cause holdups and that is [TS]

00:11:49   apparently the end and seeing some [TS]

00:11:51   policies and that that is apparently [TS]

00:11:53   what the result of this was if you read [TS]

00:11:55   between the very very obvious lines that [TS]

00:11:57   Ranger on the doctor last week so that I [TS]

00:12:00   think is very interesting also I i agree [TS]

00:12:03   with what you said i don't think they [TS]

00:12:04   were ever like artificially delaying [TS]

00:12:06   things necessarily 22 a week because if [TS]

00:12:09   they were you would have never seen a [TS]

00:12:11   review time less than a week and that [TS]

00:12:13   wasn't true you know if you would look [TS]

00:12:15   at the at the history on on that shine [TS]

00:12:18   development site that was collecting all [TS]

00:12:19   the stats for everybody that still is [TS]

00:12:21   click on the stats everybody it [TS]

00:12:24   fluctuated and sometimes it is sometimes [TS]

00:12:25   it would go you know down to like six [TS]

00:12:28   days five days and then go back up i [TS]

00:12:31   think what instead was the case was you [TS]

00:12:34   know we we know that Apple is very [TS]

00:12:35   performance metric driven these days [TS]

00:12:38   especially in the middle management [TS]

00:12:39   levels so I think they just to find the [TS]

00:12:41   performance metric to be you know ninety [TS]

00:12:44   percent or more in a 95 and that you [TS]

00:12:46   know whatever the percentages we want X [TS]

00:12:47   percent of apps to be reviewed within a [TS]

00:12:49   week and we consider that success so [TS]

00:12:51   that whenever they would start getting [TS]

00:12:52   you no way above that and would start [TS]

00:12:55   that numbers are suffering [TS]

00:12:56   maybe they would add more staff maybe [TS]

00:12:58   they would she make changes to to get [TS]

00:13:00   that number back down but it seemed like [TS]

00:13:01   they considered that good enough for all [TS]

00:13:03   this time and so a combination of maybe [TS]

00:13:06   changing that opinion may be changing [TS]

00:13:07   that metric something lower as well as [TS]

00:13:10   whatever this this management change was [TS]

00:13:12   that happened that i think is very [TS]

00:13:15   plausibly what what went on here to [TS]

00:13:17   cause a few times to do [TS]

00:13:18   up from a week to less than day and [TS]

00:13:21   don't have to be like a week [TS]

00:13:22   specifically just the idea that there is [TS]

00:13:24   there there's excess capacity that Apple [TS]

00:13:26   could review your application but [TS]

00:13:28   instead let's either decrease staffing [TS]

00:13:30   or send people home early or like like [TS]

00:13:32   they're intentionally like the delay is [TS]

00:13:34   actually part of their policy within a [TS]

00:13:36   tent that was that the theory that they [TS]

00:13:38   like Apple Apple always could do this [TS]

00:13:40   but they were intentionally not doing it [TS]

00:13:41   on [TS]

00:13:42   that's slightly different than they had [TS]

00:13:44   a metric that meant people got to go [TS]

00:13:45   home without staying for overtime as [TS]

00:13:47   long as they hit X percent because i can [TS]

00:13:49   imagine Apple being what it is they [TS]

00:13:50   probably staff so the people have to [TS]

00:13:52   work really really hard to get whatever [TS]

00:13:53   the numbers were there not like [TS]

00:13:55   overstaffing then giving them a logo [TS]

00:13:57   letting the people go home at three [TS]

00:13:58   everyday like it's not it's working [TS]

00:14:00   right [TS]

00:14:00   also the the idea of automated app [TS]

00:14:03   review or or or adding another automated [TS]

00:14:06   step of app review to you know before [TS]

00:14:08   get to the humans that I think has a lot [TS]

00:14:10   of Merit it's not an easy problem to [TS]

00:14:12   solve but if you can have some kind of [TS]

00:14:15   automation that basically just like try [TS]

00:14:17   slight push a bunch of buttons in a nap [TS]

00:14:19   Apple has said on a number of occasions [TS]

00:14:20   that the most common cause of a project [TS]

00:14:23   about projections is the app crashes [TS]

00:14:25   during review so if they can automate a [TS]

00:14:28   process where they just bring up bring [TS]

00:14:31   up into the app and just like push some [TS]

00:14:33   buttons and attempt to in an automated [TS]

00:14:35   way basically guess how to use the app [TS]

00:14:37   and just like navigate to different [TS]

00:14:38   screens if they can cause a crash to [TS]

00:14:41   happen during that everyone has to get [TS]

00:14:43   to a human it can be adjusted right then [TS]

00:14:45   go right back to the developer and say [TS]

00:14:46   alright this this failed [TS]

00:14:48   here try again and that that could also [TS]

00:14:50   result in major time savings for the [TS]

00:14:52   humans and therefore better throughput [TS]

00:14:54   for the apt to get through that test [TS]

00:14:57   cool so drew hannay wrote in they said [TS]

00:15:01   among other things it's always been [TS]

00:15:03   pretty complicated to understand what [TS]

00:15:04   exactly swiping a nap out of recent [TS]

00:15:07   actually does under the hood was this [TS]

00:15:09   regard to android actually and right [TS]

00:15:12   let's talk about the clear all button [TS]

00:15:13   like wouldn't it be fun to clear all [TS]

00:15:14   discovered of the pictures on your [TS]

00:15:15   screen but did nothing to the process we [TS]

00:15:17   are neither a mere android podcast by [TS]

00:15:19   the way sorry material so anyway so they [TS]

00:15:23   they said it's always been pretty [TS]

00:15:24   complicated understand what exactly [TS]

00:15:25   swiping a nap out of the recents [TS]

00:15:26   actually does into the hood [TS]

00:15:28   one important distinction on android is [TS]

00:15:29   that the thing that shows up in your [TS]

00:15:31   recent screen isn't actually a nap it's [TS]

00:15:33   a task and remember on Android a nap can [TS]

00:15:36   have multiple tasks in recent at the [TS]

00:15:38   same time like having multiple google [TS]

00:15:39   docs open at once when you swipe away a [TS]

00:15:42   nap it finishes the task which tells the [TS]

00:15:44   app that the user is done with that [TS]

00:15:46   workflow and it doesn't need worry to [TS]

00:15:47   worry about restoring that you I state [TS]

00:15:49   if the app is doing black background [TS]

00:15:50   worker has other open tasks its process [TS]

00:15:53   would not be killed if there's no more [TS]

00:15:55   open tasks the background job swiping [TS]

00:15:57   away a nap will let the system note is [TS]

00:15:58   the option of killing the process but it [TS]

00:16:00   doesn't guarantee that it will clear all [TS]

00:16:03   button shouldn't have a dramatic effect [TS]

00:16:04   on system performance on Android since [TS]

00:16:06   it usually won't mean that all that [TS]

00:16:07   processes are killed but it does have [TS]

00:16:09   the downside of losing any user state [TS]

00:16:11   from their open tasks [TS]

00:16:13   that's very interesting to me that is [TS]

00:16:15   the way Android works because i didn't [TS]

00:16:17   know most of that and it was also [TS]

00:16:19   interesting to me how many people who [TS]

00:16:21   seem to claim their seem to view [TS]

00:16:23   themselves as you know nerds nerds [TS]

00:16:25   tweeted about how oh yeah i do that too [TS]

00:16:29   and that's great John which I thought [TS]

00:16:32   was quite funny the only feedback that I [TS]

00:16:34   saw that I thought was very interesting [TS]

00:16:35   was people who said they wanted to clear [TS]

00:16:38   it out not for like battery not for [TS]

00:16:40   memory or anything like that which is [TS]

00:16:42   because they didn't want that that that [TS]

00:16:44   view that drawer if you will to have a [TS]

00:16:46   bunch of things in it they just wanted [TS]

00:16:48   it to be clean so they didn't have [TS]

00:16:50   clutter there which still to me seems a [TS]

00:16:53   little bit peculiar but makes a lot more [TS]

00:16:55   sense than thinking oh this is going to [TS]

00:16:57   save my battery or prevent something [TS]

00:16:58   weird from happening but they changed [TS]

00:17:01   the iOS policy be more like android [TS]

00:17:03   android when you're when you're clearing [TS]

00:17:04   these things it's explicitly not killing [TS]

00:17:06   your application like if your [TS]

00:17:07   application is running background jobs [TS]

00:17:08   that lets them keep running right and it [TS]

00:17:10   just gives it the audi also basically [TS]

00:17:12   saying is when I relaunch that don't [TS]

00:17:14   bring it back to exactly where else [TS]

00:17:16   which is still kind of punitive because [TS]

00:17:17   it like you're punishing people for like [TS]

00:17:20   I don't like the visual clutter I want [TS]

00:17:21   to get the rectangles away right and [TS]

00:17:24   there is a punishment for that which is [TS]

00:17:25   next time you want to that application [TS]

00:17:26   it will remember where you left off [TS]

00:17:27   is it will you know just bring it back [TS]

00:17:29   to a fresh state or whatever it would be [TS]

00:17:32   nice if all these operating systems i [TS]

00:17:34   guess maybe either took the speaker way [TS]

00:17:36   entirely in which case like you just [TS]

00:17:37   deal with the clutter or I gave people a [TS]

00:17:40   way to like [TS]

00:17:41   like the the newer Android and like I [TS]

00:17:44   don't know if it's hard coded 27 or you [TS]

00:17:46   can adjust it but only show a certain [TS]

00:17:47   numbers who never gets more cluttered [TS]

00:17:49   than some small amount you know or just [TS]

00:17:52   make it to get rid of the pictures and [TS]

00:17:53   do nothing else right now men and as [TS]

00:17:56   drew said there is still of course an [TS]

00:17:58   android way to actually for script to [TS]

00:17:59   kill things it's it's more deeply buried [TS]

00:18:01   but it's there and as many people [TS]

00:18:02   pointed out to us on iOS there is [TS]

00:18:04   another way to force with applications [TS]

00:18:06   besides flicking them up you can also do [TS]

00:18:07   the hold down the power button thing but [TS]

00:18:09   instead of swiping to turn off the phone [TS]

00:18:11   you you hold down the home button or [TS]

00:18:12   anyway there are lots of ways to force [TS]

00:18:14   quit things but flicking up of the [TS]

00:18:17   squares half of it is the force quitting [TS]

00:18:19   habit and the the voodoo and [TS]

00:18:21   superstition about that and the other [TS]

00:18:23   half is just people like things to be [TS]

00:18:25   neat and tidy and both of those things [TS]

00:18:26   have I feel like detrimental effects on [TS]

00:18:29   the experience of using the phone [TS]

00:18:31   probably i would say more detrimental [TS]

00:18:32   than the mental distress caused by [TS]

00:18:34   having lots of rectangles but I guess [TS]

00:18:36   that's something to worsen things around [TS]

00:18:37   outside on their own our first part [TS]

00:18:40   design is fracture fracture prints [TS]

00:18:43   photos in vivid color directly on glass [TS]

00:18:46   now you can hang these anywhere you can [TS]

00:18:48   put them on desk and put them on walls [TS]

00:18:49   you can give them as gifts these glass [TS]

00:18:52   photo prints look amazing [TS]

00:18:54   I have them all over our house now [TS]

00:18:56   they're they're everywhere we have [TS]

00:18:57   fractures everywhere now there they [TS]

00:18:58   started out a few in the office then [TS]

00:19:00   they became a lot in the office and they [TS]

00:19:02   spread outside the office now there's a [TS]

00:19:04   couple in the kitchen and one in the den [TS]

00:19:05   i think there might even be some of the [TS]

00:19:07   stairs now [TS]

00:19:08   and of course you sent a lot of them as [TS]

00:19:09   gifts as well fractures are great [TS]

00:19:11   because these are photo prints on these [TS]

00:19:14   nice thin lightweight pieces of glass [TS]

00:19:17   and so they have this foam board backing [TS]

00:19:19   so you can hang them the you know you [TS]

00:19:20   can have a picture hangnail even comes [TS]

00:19:22   in the box with the screw you need to [TS]

00:19:24   hang into a wall [TS]

00:19:25   I Morgan was a lightweight triangle nail [TS]

00:19:27   doesn't matter these are nice and [TS]

00:19:29   lightweight easy to hang easy to deal [TS]

00:19:31   with it they ship them really nice they [TS]

00:19:33   don't break and shipping and they just [TS]

00:19:35   look fantastic you have this [TS]

00:19:36   edge-to-edge print and vivid color of [TS]

00:19:38   your photo and we can be it can be an [TS]

00:19:41   illustration it can be a doodle it can [TS]

00:19:43   be art it could be a photo from your [TS]

00:19:44   phone or a photo from a good camera they [TS]

00:19:46   all look good and we have them [TS]

00:19:48   everywhere they make fantastic gifts and [TS]

00:19:50   they're very very affordable price are [TS]

00:19:53   just fifteen dollars for the small [TS]

00:19:54   squares [TS]

00:19:55   which are great for Instagram they're [TS]

00:19:57   about the size of a CD case maybe if any [TS]

00:19:59   of you are old enough to remember what I [TS]

00:20:01   see case looks like they're they're [TS]

00:20:03   roughly that size and and then of course [TS]

00:20:06   you know that bigger sizes up that but [TS]

00:20:08   you know that sighs just like 15 bucks [TS]

00:20:09   and if you use our coupon code actually [TS]

00:20:11   ATP 10 you can also get ten percent off [TS]

00:20:14   your first order checking out today [TS]

00:20:16   fracture me.com and use code ATP 10 to [TS]

00:20:20   get ten percent off thank you very much [TS]

00:20:22   to fracture for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:20:24   ah so there's been rumors about new [TS]

00:20:30   macbook pros they're coming eventually [TS]

00:20:33   first of all if you go back to the [TS]

00:20:36   original article i believe it's it [TS]

00:20:39   clarifies that its q4 of apples [TS]

00:20:42   financial calendar they're coming which [TS]

00:20:43   is july ok so the rumor is that that in [TS]

00:20:47   in quote q4 this year which everyone [TS]

00:20:51   interprets to mean October through [TS]

00:20:53   December app will be releasing new [TS]

00:20:56   macbook pros that are substantially [TS]

00:20:58   redesigned so that they're you know [TS]

00:21:00   they're going to be thinner gonna be [TS]

00:21:01   like we're gonna have the new skylight [TS]

00:21:03   cpus and they're going to have a few [TS]

00:21:05   other interesting changes that we will [TS]

00:21:07   talk about in a second so before you [TS]

00:21:09   before you before you move on [TS]

00:21:11   how confident are you about this whole [TS]

00:21:13   queue for confusion because when I read [TS]

00:21:15   this article my my overall sense of [TS]

00:21:17   sadness was like q4 seriously how long [TS]

00:21:19   have we been waiting for the macbook [TS]

00:21:21   pros to get updated and now i have to [TS]

00:21:22   wait until like the end of the year like [TS]

00:21:25   the fall and winter time and then you [TS]

00:21:28   telling me I don't know q4 is not that [TS]

00:21:29   the financial q4 which is different [TS]

00:21:31   makes me feel better but how sure are [TS]

00:21:33   you about that because I have to know [TS]

00:21:34   how to feel before you move it was good [TS]

00:21:36   computers are going to be like I'm just [TS]

00:21:38   repeating what other people said so [TS]

00:21:40   maybe I'm not so sure I don't know now [TS]

00:21:42   it now I'm doubting everything [TS]

00:21:43   well anyway all i can say is that if if [TS]

00:21:46   you if you people can't get one of these [TS]

00:21:48   things in their hands until the end of [TS]

00:21:49   the year that seems like that seems bad [TS]

00:21:52   like I mean you can blame Intel for a [TS]

00:21:54   certain amount of the delay but really [TS]

00:21:56   like we can't get new macbook pros until [TS]

00:21:59   the end of 2016 if I had told you in at [TS]

00:22:02   the end of 2014 that there's not going [TS]

00:22:04   to be new macbook pros until the end of [TS]

00:22:06   yeah I don't like it especially [TS]

00:22:09   i think it's it's made worse because of [TS]

00:22:11   the fact that the the researchers long [TS]

00:22:13   delay with Intel's cpus hear that [TS]

00:22:16   they're currently shipping basically [TS]

00:22:19   three year old cpu like that the guts of [TS]

00:22:21   the macbook pro that you buy today [TS]

00:22:23   there've been there was like the one [TS]

00:22:24   minor update in mid-2015 but it was a [TS]

00:22:27   very minor update it changed almost [TS]

00:22:29   nothing about them and so basically [TS]

00:22:31   you're buying like 23 year old hardware [TS]

00:22:34   today as the curse of the pro label [TS]

00:22:36   right this is you would put on a cpu [TS]

00:22:38   ages to be three years old in the market [TS]

00:22:40   I think that's the new rules [TS]

00:22:42   yeah which I mean like cosmetics aside I [TS]

00:22:45   mean you know we can talk about cosmetic [TS]

00:22:46   in a minute but like just the fact that [TS]

00:22:48   apple continues to sell really pretty [TS]

00:22:51   ancient hardware by computing standards [TS]

00:22:53   for so long now you know we talked about [TS]

00:22:55   before like I know why some of these [TS]

00:22:57   things are this way like I know that [TS]

00:22:59   they that they generally wait until [TS]

00:23:01   there's like a substantial cpu update [TS]

00:23:03   from Intel and that those have been [TS]

00:23:05   delayed in recent years but that has to [TS]

00:23:08   change because I know they do care but [TS]

00:23:12   when they let the hardware age for this [TS]

00:23:14   long [TS]

00:23:15   still at the top of the line it looks [TS]

00:23:16   like they don't care anymore about it [TS]

00:23:18   and I again I know they do care but this [TS]

00:23:21   is how it looks to buyers this is how it [TS]

00:23:22   looks in the market it looks like apples [TS]

00:23:24   just ignoring the mac and letting these [TS]

00:23:26   things language and don't know if that's [TS]

00:23:28   true it looks that way to nerds to tech [TS]

00:23:31   nerds other people don't even know what [TS]

00:23:32   that is in them but I mean where its [TS]

00:23:34   technical podcast know people do people [TS]

00:23:36   do research you know you you gotta get [TS]

00:23:38   give people credit they do their [TS]

00:23:39   research and when people are looking to [TS]

00:23:41   buy an Apple computer they go online and [TS]

00:23:43   they look and they find things like the [TS]

00:23:45   microwave buying guide says like all the [TS]

00:23:46   stuff is three years old like like the [TS]

00:23:48   people do their research they find stuff [TS]

00:23:50   out they know anybody who see it finds [TS]

00:23:53   the macrumors buying guide is pretty far [TS]

00:23:54   over into the computer and everything I [TS]

00:23:56   it's a factor i'm just saying like there [TS]

00:23:58   is there is a whole other section of the [TS]

00:23:59   population that never looks that stuff [TS]

00:24:01   but in the grand scheme of things even [TS]

00:24:03   if they don't know they're still even if [TS]

00:24:05   you don't know or care about the age of [TS]

00:24:06   the cpu you are still affected by [TS]

00:24:07   because it's actually affects the useful [TS]

00:24:09   lifetime of your computer because it is [TS]

00:24:11   a three year old cpu whether you know it [TS]

00:24:13   or not and so three years later using a [TS]

00:24:15   six-year-old cpu whereas a battle kept [TS]

00:24:17   up-to-date you would have more life left [TS]

00:24:19   in your lap [TS]

00:24:19   top then it's not as bad as be spending [TS]

00:24:23   this vs SD where you're you know you [TS]

00:24:25   sort of prematurely age when you realize [TS]

00:24:27   that everyone else as these but you know [TS]

00:24:29   maybe you can upgrade years or whatever [TS]

00:24:30   cpus don't hate your laptop as bad as [TS]

00:24:33   other things but it's all cumulative and [TS]

00:24:35   basically what we're doing is here as as [TS]

00:24:37   people knowledgeable about you know the [TS]

00:24:39   platform and the products is we're [TS]

00:24:41   judging the products how good the [TS]

00:24:42   product is this and you can't judge it [TS]

00:24:46   to be a particularly stellar product if [TS]

00:24:48   the innards are really old and out of [TS]

00:24:50   date and as you know as time marches on [TS]

00:24:51   and competitor products get better [TS]

00:24:54   innards for usually less or the same [TS]

00:24:57   money you have to judge Apple's products [TS]

00:24:59   more harshly and as people who other [TS]

00:25:01   people might ask about computers you [TS]

00:25:03   might say now is not a good time to buy [TS]

00:25:05   the macbook pros with it they're going [TS]

00:25:07   to be updated soon but if we've been [TS]

00:25:09   saying that for two years at a certain [TS]

00:25:10   point where like is I don't know if it's [TS]

00:25:12   bad advice is good advice for trying to [TS]

00:25:14   kind of predict the future like you [TS]

00:25:15   should you buy this should not but once [TS]

00:25:18   it's a three year old cpu even if [TS]

00:25:19   numerical approach didn't come out for [TS]

00:25:21   another year [TS]

00:25:23   you can't really good conscience tell [TS]

00:25:25   people you should buy this computer [TS]

00:25:27   assisted great product you could say you [TS]

00:25:28   should buy a computer because it [TS]

00:25:29   basically your only choice if you want a [TS]

00:25:31   mac laptop like you know the these [TS]

00:25:32   laptops they sell and a whole bunch of [TS]

00:25:34   them are better and compromise in a [TS]

00:25:35   bunch of reasons but if you need a [TS]

00:25:37   laptop now you got to get one but I can [TS]

00:25:39   honestly say this is not actually a star [TS]

00:25:40   product unlike say the 5k iMac which [TS]

00:25:42   came out of the gate and I was you know [TS]

00:25:44   good and all the the ways we expected to [TS]

00:25:46   be good right oh yeah i mean like the 5k [TS]

00:25:49   imac has been fantastic and that has [TS]

00:25:51   like that is you know that originally [TS]

00:25:53   came out a year and a half ago and then [TS]

00:25:55   six months ago they made the updated [TS]

00:25:56   version and it's it's a fantastic [TS]

00:25:58   computer it is it has new up-to-date [TS]

00:26:01   components it was updated one year after [TS]

00:26:03   came out with even newer even more [TS]

00:26:05   up-to-date components like that is a [TS]

00:26:07   healthy release cycle [TS]

00:26:08   yeah you know with regard to the date [TS]

00:26:10   something to consider is and we're [TS]

00:26:12   getting--we're going to get to some [TS]

00:26:14   interesting new hardware tidbits in a [TS]

00:26:16   second but what if one of those hardware [TS]

00:26:18   tidbits requires a major release of OS [TS]

00:26:20   10 and that isn't doesn't typically [TS]

00:26:23   shift until fall so maybe it is the fall [TS]

00:26:27   because they need the software and I [TS]

00:26:30   know they'll be like a point release [TS]

00:26:31   ahead for a lot of things but I [TS]

00:26:33   I don't I don't think today's apple is [TS]

00:26:34   delaying hardware for software all [TS]

00:26:36   absolutely they are not except for [TS]

00:26:38   except for new devices like the watch [TS]

00:26:40   you know you're going to see the watch [TS]

00:26:41   but for her laptops I'm saying even if [TS]

00:26:44   they have a weird screen above the [TS]

00:26:45   keyboard that we'll get to in a minute [TS]

00:26:46   like they don't just work that into the [TS]

00:26:49   old OS if they needed to ship them like [TS]

00:26:51   they do that so many times where some [TS]

00:26:54   boring old Mac is ready to ship but the [TS]

00:26:56   the they would like ship with the new OS [TS]

00:26:58   but it's not available with it so [TS]

00:26:59   they'll end up checking that you did [TS]

00:27:01   with OS versions like the net up [TS]

00:27:02   shipping it with the with leopard or [TS]

00:27:04   something when not leopard without with [TS]

00:27:07   Tiger even though lever was about to [TS]

00:27:09   come out and then people would get it by [TS]

00:27:10   the time they get into the story was [TS]

00:27:12   still have the old OS but then you get [TS]

00:27:14   it and they would upgrade you for free [TS]

00:27:15   or whatever like I don't think [TS]

00:27:17   especially with i was 10 i don't think [TS]

00:27:19   that's what they would be holding back [TS]

00:27:20   this hard work and wait for the software [TS]

00:27:21   unless there's some amazing new feature [TS]

00:27:23   nobody here's here's the scenario here [TS]

00:27:25   alright so the new laptop suppose it has [TS]

00:27:28   touch ID like this report says and [TS]

00:27:31   everyone says there's going to be Cirie [TS]

00:27:33   in new OS 10 so suppose it has a touch [TS]

00:27:35   ID button or surface or circle or [TS]

00:27:37   something maybe the power button who [TS]

00:27:38   knows somewhere there's a touch ID think [TS]

00:27:40   they're right and then also somewhere on [TS]

00:27:43   the keyboard in the in the effing row [TS]

00:27:44   then look at which we'll get to in a [TS]

00:27:46   minute in the afternoon maybe the Serie [TS]

00:27:47   button there is no OS 10 version until [TS]

00:27:51   the fall that will that will support [TS]

00:27:53   those things in all likelihood the OS 10 [TS]

00:27:56   version that comes out in the fall they [TS]

00:27:58   can't bring those things forward or they [TS]

00:27:59   won't bring those before they don't feel [TS]

00:28:01   bring those things forward to get [TS]

00:28:02   through it earlier because the OS 10 [TS]

00:28:04   version the fall also has stuff that [TS]

00:28:06   integrates with the iOS version coming [TS]

00:28:08   in the fall and the iOS version coming [TS]

00:28:10   in the fall is tied to the iphone [TS]

00:28:11   hardware schedule and the entire company [TS]

00:28:13   is dictated by the iphone hardware [TS]

00:28:15   schedule know that seems plausible i [TS]

00:28:17   forgot about touch ID thing without the [TS]

00:28:18   secure Enclave the other thing like [TS]

00:28:20   assuming there's touch anything that's [TS]

00:28:21   probably a secure Enclave thing and [TS]

00:28:24   that's yeah the screen i say no because [TS]

00:28:26   the screenwriter driver for us but the [TS]

00:28:28   touch ID and that security stuff [TS]

00:28:30   yeah alright well that's that's crappy [TS]

00:28:33   but that's life [TS]

00:28:35   it's so that's right so we we've bounced [TS]

00:28:37   off the outer atmosphere of the changes [TS]

00:28:40   here but we should probably talk about [TS]

00:28:42   it so it's gonna be really cute for [TS]

00:28:43   probably it's probably gonna be like [TS]

00:28:45   some timber October ok [TS]

00:28:46   a fair enough so there's apparently [TS]

00:28:49   going to be a replaced effing row where [TS]

00:28:54   all the f1 f2 f3 etc keys are now little [TS]

00:28:57   mini oled displays i'm not sure what to [TS]

00:29:00   make about I feel like there was a [TS]

00:29:01   keyboard that it would likely in the pre [TS]

00:29:03   Kickstarter days but it was a [TS]

00:29:05   Kickstarter kind of project where there [TS]

00:29:08   was a keyboard that they wanted like the [TS]

00:29:09   entire keyboard to have little mini [TS]

00:29:11   displays on each key and the theory was [TS]

00:29:13   which made a lot of sense to me it was [TS]

00:29:15   the optimist keyboard was it ok by the [TS]

00:29:18   art lib dems studio [TS]

00:29:19   yes yes that's right you're absolutely [TS]

00:29:21   right [TS]

00:29:22   did that ever ship yeah it was delayed [TS]

00:29:24   for like years i think and it would end [TS]

00:29:26   up being very expensive but i think it [TS]

00:29:28   did in fact ship and now there's like [TS]

00:29:30   now like a bunch of keyboards now do the [TS]

00:29:32   exact same thing here sits there [TS]

00:29:34   yes so that the idea being that you know [TS]

00:29:36   all of these different displays can be [TS]

00:29:38   reprogrammed so think of sort of kind of [TS]

00:29:41   having all the benefits of a keyboard on [TS]

00:29:45   screen like on a phone or tablet but [TS]

00:29:48   it's still a physical keyboard but you [TS]

00:29:49   can reprogram with the key show and [TS]

00:29:51   potentially what they do and so I can [TS]

00:29:54   see maybe you have like a yellow on the [TS]

00:29:57   current keyboards the f what is this fa [TS]

00:30:00   f8 key is play pause well maybe it's [TS]

00:30:03   play pause in finder or by default but [TS]

00:30:06   maybe in other apps it does other things [TS]

00:30:08   and it shows you right on the key like a [TS]

00:30:11   little logo or or maybe even a logo in [TS]

00:30:13   the word so as to what it does so I can [TS]

00:30:16   see this being neat but I all I also i'm [TS]

00:30:20   not sure that this is something I really [TS]

00:30:22   need but I'm anxious to see what they're [TS]

00:30:24   going to do with it what do you guys [TS]

00:30:25   think Marco you you have tweeted about [TS]

00:30:28   this and don't sound too enthusiastic is [TS]

00:30:30   that fair to say well so if the the [TS]

00:30:32   initial reporting of this rumor had it [TS]

00:30:34   as the FN key role would be would [TS]

00:30:37   disappear like the keys would no longer [TS]

00:30:39   be there should be one screen one screen [TS]

00:30:41   not keys with screens on the right [TS]

00:30:43   exactly and that's the initial rumors [TS]

00:30:45   that it would be 11 like one long strip [TS]

00:30:47   of of oled screen and it would be [TS]

00:30:50   touch-sensitive and so you would just [TS]

00:30:51   like push it like it's like it's a [TS]

00:30:53   skinny ipad screen basically and so that [TS]

00:30:55   you know if that ends up being if this [TS]

00:30:58   thing is real and if that ends up being [TS]

00:30:59   the way it's done [TS]

00:31:00   I don't like that very much at least on [TS]

00:31:02   principle will see you know if they [TS]

00:31:04   actually did something like that [TS]

00:31:05   we'll see how it turns out a change your [TS]

00:31:07   mind but I there was a discussion with [TS]

00:31:10   about that particular rumor on clockwise [TS]

00:31:12   this week today actually so that I think [TS]

00:31:15   like not having physical buttons to push [TS]

00:31:18   their on this keyboard that you're [TS]

00:31:21   probably not looking at like yeah the [TS]

00:31:24   the keys in the effing row are not that [TS]

00:31:26   frequently pushed by most people but for [TS]

00:31:29   the people who do frequently push them [TS]

00:31:31   and that you know the other include some [TS]

00:31:32   pretty important keys like escape which [TS]

00:31:34   is like that your shortcut to cancel [TS]

00:31:36   dialog boxes which is kind of frequently [TS]

00:31:38   hit also frequently if your vm user [TS]

00:31:40   among other things a lot of programs are [TS]

00:31:43   for code completion so like there-there [TS]

00:31:45   are and as you said like the media keys [TS]

00:31:48   the volume up and down the play/pause [TS]

00:31:50   the mute anybody who uses the the [TS]

00:31:53   various like things that used to be [TS]

00:31:55   called expose their now lumped into all [TS]

00:31:57   these other things and i always use an [TS]

00:32:00   11-4 show desktop like those things [TS]

00:32:03   those are very frequently hit by by a [TS]

00:32:06   good number of users i think and so if [TS]

00:32:09   you remove those as keys at all and it's [TS]

00:32:11   just this this touch surface that you [TS]

00:32:13   need to reprint we need to look at it to [TS]

00:32:15   see what you're hitting [TS]

00:32:16   and you wouldn't get the physical [TS]

00:32:18   feedback of a keypress to know that you [TS]

00:32:20   did hit it correctly that is high i [TS]

00:32:24   really hope we never get to that point [TS]

00:32:26   because you know there's a reason why in [TS]

00:32:30   all these all the effort that we've put [TS]

00:32:32   into making things thinner and lighter [TS]

00:32:34   and mechanically simpler and removing [TS]

00:32:36   buttons [TS]

00:32:37   there's a reason we still have keyboard [TS]

00:32:40   buttons on computers even when you look [TS]

00:32:42   at the macbook one and you see we barely [TS]

00:32:45   have keyboard buttons but we still have [TS]

00:32:47   keyboard buttons for reason and that is [TS]

00:32:50   that when you are not looking when [TS]

00:32:51   you're typing blind it is way easier and [TS]

00:32:54   more accurate and faster and [TS]

00:32:55   ergonomically better to have key [TS]

00:32:57   switches that blew up and down but you [TS]

00:32:58   can feel when you push so the idea of [TS]

00:33:01   replacing this this trip with something [TS]

00:33:04   but with no LED strip to to accomplish [TS]

00:33:07   various goals you know that the benefits [TS]

00:33:09   here would be you could make you can put [TS]

00:33:12   stuff under that part [TS]

00:33:14   to make because it would be thinner [TS]

00:33:15   wouldn't need any kind of travel under [TS]

00:33:17   it and presumably these the screen but [TS]

00:33:18   it could be very thin in the keyboard [TS]

00:33:20   row could be so you could shove more [TS]

00:33:22   more of the computers guts or battery [TS]

00:33:24   under that area so you have you save [TS]

00:33:26   something there it would look cool maybe [TS]

00:33:29   if you look tacky so you'd say that you [TS]

00:33:32   know you gain something there you go [TS]

00:33:33   banner ads on a towel it's not a [TS]

00:33:35   Chromebook nevermind yeah yeah yeah so [TS]

00:33:38   like there you could see the reason to [TS]

00:33:40   this and and I should point also like [TS]

00:33:41   any use for like status things and pc [TS]

00:33:44   laptops have had displays it you know [TS]

00:33:46   above the keyboard that show statuses of [TS]

00:33:49   things for for a long time [TS]

00:33:50   also on the covers and on the back on [TS]

00:33:52   the side this BS was in every possible [TS]

00:33:54   surface of pc laptops there was a [TS]

00:33:56   windows feature they were touting like [TS]

00:33:57   10 years ago they were like the new [TS]

00:33:59   windows features like secondary screens [TS]

00:34:01   on laptops and it's always supported and [TS]

00:34:03   basically pc manufacturers go ahead [TS]

00:34:05   figure out where it's a good idea to put [TS]

00:34:07   a screen and you just try to sell things [TS]

00:34:09   like this and r us will support them and [TS]

00:34:11   doesn't seem like a really caught on [TS]

00:34:12   that much [TS]

00:34:12   yeah so anyway like Apple could do this [TS]

00:34:15   that way with with replacing the FN key [TS]

00:34:17   entirely different hero entirely with [TS]

00:34:19   with a screen i hope they don't do it [TS]

00:34:21   that way unfortunately we've heard from [TS]

00:34:23   a certain tipster that that's not how [TS]

00:34:25   they're going to do it that that the the [TS]

00:34:28   tipster suggested that what he saw or [TS]

00:34:32   around was not that version of it but [TS]

00:34:36   was was instead a you still had the the [TS]

00:34:40   physical buttons and the screen [TS]

00:34:42   augmented the buttons in in some way so [TS]

00:34:45   that I'm hoping that is correct and that [TS]

00:34:49   i wouldn't mind if Apple does this right [TS]

00:34:52   i think it's it's gonna be fine i really [TS]

00:34:56   hope they don't get rid of the entire [TS]

00:34:57   effing kero itself because I really want [TS]

00:34:59   those keys to be there but I don't [TS]

00:35:00   really care how they're labeled I got an [TS]

00:35:03   idea you could sell an external keyboard [TS]

00:35:05   like this and called the Apple extended [TS]

00:35:06   keyboard and then finally happened with [TS]

00:35:08   selling keyboard that is not a tiny [TS]

00:35:10   little piece of crap with no inverted T [TS]

00:35:12   arrow keys on it i don't get him started [TS]

00:35:15   don't even get me started you're wrong [TS]

00:35:16   sir some chatroom credit a windows side [TS]

00:35:19   show was what the great name [TS]

00:35:22   that's fantastic like the the external [TS]

00:35:24   like the support for weird [TS]

00:35:26   secondary displays on laptops and Nathan [TS]

00:35:28   and pointed out that a man was trying to [TS]

00:35:30   think it was a OS 10 lion came out with [TS]

00:35:33   Renault Sport 10.7 point five because [TS]

00:35:35   basically the the fully read and [TS]

00:35:36   supporting a os10 wasn't out yet [TS]

00:35:38   yeah and the old the app store came to [TS]

00:35:40   10 610 68 ya think ya anyway so that's [TS]

00:35:44   that's the FN key role I think we have [TS]

00:35:46   that well coverlet of other other [TS]

00:35:48   comments on that I think the idea of [TS]

00:35:51   having a big like you know that the [TS]

00:35:54   doctor says that I'm doing but just [TS]

00:35:55   having a big flat screen like the the [TS]

00:35:58   obvious reasons that's bad and you're [TS]

00:36:00   one over them like they do you know you [TS]

00:36:02   feel turkeys you want to feel the edges [TS]

00:36:03   are it span but it's just one big flat [TS]

00:36:05   screen but I have to think and we've [TS]

00:36:08   joked about this so many times and [TS]

00:36:09   talking about the macbook keyboard and [TS]

00:36:10   everything like well why even have keys [TS]

00:36:12   at all is going to be so little travel [TS]

00:36:13   and part of the whole big sales pitch of [TS]

00:36:15   the original iphone presentation was [TS]

00:36:17   like I look at all these phones they [TS]

00:36:18   have all these buttons on them but you [TS]

00:36:20   kind of have to pick the buttons when [TS]

00:36:21   you make the phone and you can't change [TS]

00:36:22   after the fact but what if we made the [TS]

00:36:23   whole screen of the phone the whole [TS]

00:36:24   surface of the phone screen then you [TS]

00:36:26   have to worry about with the buttons are [TS]

00:36:27   because software we can change them all [TS]

00:36:28   time and everybody said yeah all [TS]

00:36:30   software but then how the hell can you [TS]

00:36:31   feel the keys when you're trying to type [TS]

00:36:32   on the thing because it's just a big [TS]

00:36:34   flat screen we work that out as a [TS]

00:36:37   society we now know how to type on a on [TS]

00:36:41   flat screen phones [TS]

00:36:42   it's a little bit different because the [TS]

00:36:44   focal distance between looking at the [TS]

00:36:46   keyboard and looking at the screen is a [TS]

00:36:48   little bit better on a phone than it is [TS]

00:36:50   on a laptop combination like you're kind [TS]

00:36:52   of looking in the same place at the same [TS]

00:36:54   distance as opposed to you know looking [TS]

00:36:56   at the keyboard obviously touch type of [TS]

00:36:58   starting to say I don't like this second [TS]

00:37:00   i'm a touch typist I don't have to look [TS]

00:37:01   at the keyboard [TS]

00:37:02   I wonder what percentage of the world [TS]

00:37:04   population looks at the keyboard when [TS]

00:37:06   they type not on a phone i'm like a [TS]

00:37:08   regular like laptop or desktop keyboard [TS]

00:37:11   maybe it's pretty high maybe it's not I [TS]

00:37:13   don't know but they still have the same [TS]

00:37:14   focal distance question anyway I there [TS]

00:37:16   was the final thing that I can't [TS]

00:37:17   remember the source of this may be one [TS]

00:37:18   of you will was it was an Aymara [TS]

00:37:19   somebody did a survey of how fast can [TS]

00:37:24   you touch type on a on ipad keyboard [TS]

00:37:26   like a totally glass keyboard by age and [TS]

00:37:29   they split up by age and the old people [TS]

00:37:31   of course were horrendously bad touch [TS]

00:37:33   typing on it and the younger you got the [TS]

00:37:36   bigger the bars get up to the point [TS]

00:37:37   where people were typing faster on the [TS]

00:37:39   ipad keyboard then I can touch on a real [TS]

00:37:41   type on a real keyboard i'm a terrible [TS]

00:37:43   typist is not a big judge but they were [TS]

00:37:44   into like you know over 60 words a [TS]

00:37:46   minute this is cortex by the way I was [TS]

00:37:49   the context yep [TS]

00:37:50   yeah anyway um it makes me wonder about [TS]

00:37:52   the future like it for now we're all [TS]

00:37:55   glad if they do the separate buttons [TS]

00:37:57   with LED things that looks cool we can [TS]

00:37:59   feel the bottom edges and I know I don't [TS]

00:38:01   look at the keyboard when I hit the [TS]

00:38:02   Escape key and many other things like [TS]

00:38:04   I'm not really a touch typist I don't [TS]

00:38:05   type the right way but in practice I can [TS]

00:38:07   program without looking at the keyboard [TS]

00:38:09   even though my fingers are doing [TS]

00:38:10   completely the incorrect thing down [TS]

00:38:13   there but you were going to get old and [TS]

00:38:17   retire and die and eventually I don't [TS]

00:38:20   think it's too unrealistic to imagine [TS]

00:38:22   that it's possible not guaranteed but [TS]

00:38:24   possible that future future future apple [TS]

00:38:26   laptops could either a not exist or be [TS]

00:38:30   just have an entirely you know have an [TS]

00:38:34   entire screen for the keyboard area [TS]

00:38:35   because it would be thinner and it would [TS]

00:38:36   be infinitely configurable and people do [TS]

00:38:39   get used to them and people can actually [TS]

00:38:40   get fast with them and it makes me a [TS]

00:38:42   wonder about the future [TS]

00:38:43   yeah i mean like i think my ideal setup [TS]

00:38:47   here because I do recognize like the the [TS]

00:38:49   advantages of having like dynamic [TS]

00:38:51   softkeys where you mean maybe some of [TS]

00:38:54   them the system defined as always having [TS]

00:38:56   pretty much the same function things [TS]

00:38:57   like you know volume controls and then [TS]

00:39:00   some of them you know our application [TS]

00:39:02   defined and applications consider when [TS]

00:39:05   you have like photoshop or logic or [TS]

00:39:06   whatever active then you can map these [TS]

00:39:08   buttons to these commands and actually [TS]

00:39:09   show them on there and that that makes [TS]

00:39:12   it easier to learn the keyboard [TS]

00:39:13   shortcuts and were these functions [TS]

00:39:14   become more accessible and everything [TS]

00:39:16   like that there is also do the fuzzy [TS]

00:39:18   targets too just like the phone keyboard [TS]

00:39:20   does that was another big selling point [TS]

00:39:21   the phone keyboard like oh we know that [TS]

00:39:22   the most likely in the English language [TS]

00:39:24   the next letters has a much higher [TS]

00:39:26   percentage chance to be you know in our [TS]

00:39:28   than X so even though you're a little [TS]

00:39:30   bit off of the the key that you're [TS]

00:39:32   trying to hit will you know like the [TS]

00:39:34   sort of fuzzy matching for where your [TS]

00:39:36   figures tap and you might think oh I [TS]

00:39:39   don't need that when the keys are [TS]

00:39:40   full-size but maybe you do maybe it [TS]

00:39:43   would help like there are things you can [TS]

00:39:44   do with a completely software-controlled [TS]

00:39:46   fully flat glass [TS]

00:39:48   keyboard that you can do with a physical [TS]

00:39:49   one will ride might be good but i like [TS]

00:39:52   it to me I i think that the the happy [TS]

00:39:55   medium here would be that you still have [TS]

00:39:57   the physical buttons there that you know [TS]

00:40:01   like because I mean if you're doing the [TS]

00:40:02   entire keyboard not just the f0 if you [TS]

00:40:06   need a higher keyboard i think your [TS]

00:40:08   argument makes more sense even though i [TS]

00:40:10   think i would hate that but you would [TS]

00:40:12   have it would be so much more powerful [TS]

00:40:13   as you could do things like well the [TS]

00:40:15   entire left half is going to be a jog [TS]

00:40:17   wheel instead of keys you know like you [TS]

00:40:20   could do dynamic stuff ya know that [TS]

00:40:22   that's what I'm saying that this is the [TS]

00:40:23   entire thing would be just it would just [TS]

00:40:25   be like be you know just like tapping on [TS]

00:40:27   ipad is just one big flat piece of glass [TS]

00:40:28   with all the not a bunch of individual [TS]

00:40:30   keys like because it almost feels like a [TS]

00:40:32   weird in-between State to have like the [TS]

00:40:34   optimist keyboard where it's like we [TS]

00:40:36   want the keys to be infinitely [TS]

00:40:37   configurable they'll always be the same [TS]

00:40:38   size and position right but I think in [TS]

00:40:41   the context of a mac and you know [TS]

00:40:44   especially a mac laptop wear whatever [TS]

00:40:46   keyboard bass they ship in a mac laptop [TS]

00:40:48   you're stuck with like you know I mean [TS]

00:40:50   you could put other keyboards like on [TS]

00:40:52   desks when you go park it on a desk but [TS]

00:40:54   like when you are out in the world or [TS]

00:40:57   using your laptop like on the couch or [TS]

00:40:59   by itself with no additional hardware [TS]

00:41:01   and that's like whatever keyboard that [TS]

00:41:03   that hasn't it you don't have a choice [TS]

00:41:04   so I think in the current context of [TS]

00:41:08   like how people use macs and pcs like I [TS]

00:41:12   think it's important to have a physical [TS]

00:41:13   keyboard and I think you know looking at [TS]

00:41:15   things like a macbook one where you know [TS]

00:41:17   Apple goes to incredible lengths to make [TS]

00:41:19   a really crappy physical keyboard but [TS]

00:41:22   it's still better than typing on glass I [TS]

00:41:24   I think Apple probably agrees that the [TS]

00:41:26   Sun Apple agrees that you know in the [TS]

00:41:29   mac landscape you need physical keys so [TS]

00:41:32   if you're gonna have physical keys and [TS]

00:41:33   you want this this key strip to be [TS]

00:41:35   dynamic it makes sense to also keep [TS]

00:41:38   those as physical keys because the way [TS]

00:41:40   people are going to be using that [TS]

00:41:41   keyboard is still going to be based on [TS]

00:41:43   field for the most part and you're not [TS]

00:41:46   really going to gain much you know if if [TS]

00:41:48   you only have a thin strip on top of the [TS]

00:41:51   keyboard to customize the software [TS]

00:41:53   you're not really going to gain much by [TS]

00:41:56   by having that be a flat touch surface [TS]

00:41:58   that you wouldn't also have by having [TS]

00:42:00   them be [TS]

00:42:00   Silky's and you and you also want there [TS]

00:42:03   will be no cost to it then to the user [TS]

00:42:05   like there will be no downside if [TS]

00:42:06   they're still physical keys you're gonna [TS]

00:42:07   change the labels on them you know that [TS]

00:42:09   then then there's no complaint there's [TS]

00:42:11   no downside except cost and complexity [TS]

00:42:12   but you know seems like apples okay with [TS]

00:42:14   that i think that sounds fine and I [TS]

00:42:18   think that that would that be my happy [TS]

00:42:19   medium is sure if you're gonna do this [TS]

00:42:21   at all [TS]

00:42:22   make it like the optimist keyboard puts [TS]

00:42:23   create put some kind of screens on each [TS]

00:42:25   key or put a big screen below all the [TS]

00:42:27   keys make them clear or something I [TS]

00:42:28   don't know but that's yeah it'll be a [TS]

00:42:31   screen HQ but like out for the big flat [TS]

00:42:34   glass thing you can also cover the [TS]

00:42:36   trackpad that point too i get an [TS]

00:42:37   estimate of its a simplification that [TS]

00:42:39   may improve your resistible eventually I [TS]

00:42:41   if if the customer base eventually get [TS]

00:42:43   to the point where they feel like we can [TS]

00:42:45   sell this product and not too many [TS]

00:42:46   people complaints of the really old [TS]

00:42:48   people [TS]

00:42:48   yeah i just want extended keyboard is [TS]

00:42:50   that too much to ask that is not a thing [TS]

00:42:51   anymore that apple doesn't really it's [TS]

00:42:53   like they want the keyboard to be super [TS]

00:42:55   small because they're all used on [TS]

00:42:56   submarines or whatever i don't know i [TS]

00:42:57   don't want the use cases for constantly [TS]

00:42:59   making the keyboard not just their fine [TS]

00:43:01   whatever I don't really care that much [TS]

00:43:02   about that but narrower like am I using [TS]

00:43:04   in coach class on United I don't know [TS]

00:43:07   what why does it have to be so I've got [TS]

00:43:08   this big desk here like like take off [TS]

00:43:11   the numeric keypad fine but you can be [TS]

00:43:13   inverted T I use I use those keys when i [TS]

00:43:16   type and program also a quick comment on [TS]

00:43:19   the fitness of keyboards here just first [TS]

00:43:21   second articles are saying that this new [TS]

00:43:24   macbook pro has a thinner keyboard that [TS]

00:43:28   is like the macbook one keyboard this [TS]

00:43:31   would normally freak me out except the [TS]

00:43:32   tipster said many times in the chat that [TS]

00:43:35   yes it is that general type of keyboard [TS]

00:43:38   however it is much closer to the new [TS]

00:43:41   standalone magic keyboard then the [TS]

00:43:44   macbook ones total crap keyboard [TS]

00:43:46   I've tried the magic keyboard in the [TS]

00:43:48   store in okc you love yours right [TS]

00:43:50   I cannot say enough good things about it [TS]

00:43:52   with the exception I i agree out prefer [TS]

00:43:54   the inverted T but I've learned to move [TS]

00:43:57   on from it [TS]

00:43:58   don't page down home and then don't miss [TS]

00:44:00   those guys and being a normal place [TS]

00:44:02   where you can find them really easily [TS]

00:44:03   no really honestly that's what years [TS]

00:44:05   this seriously you don't use page up and [TS]

00:44:07   page down know you have the Marquis but [TS]

00:44:10   i never use them you swipe on your silly [TS]

00:44:12   little mice when I used windows [TS]

00:44:14   as I used home and end of the time but [TS]

00:44:16   now i use command left member and that's [TS]

00:44:17   you know right now home and then doing [TS]

00:44:19   what they're supposed to do not what [TS]

00:44:20   they doing windows me what we're gonna [TS]

00:44:22   do is I'm gonna beginning of the line of [TS]

00:44:25   that home but world is that home at the [TS]

00:44:27   top and the bottom thats command up in [TS]

00:44:29   command down easy peasy [TS]

00:44:31   so the point is so yeah I love the magic [TS]

00:44:33   keyboard is my favorite keyboard that [TS]

00:44:35   I've ever used and i have tried just [TS]

00:44:38   about any of the popular keyboards or [TS]

00:44:40   close variants thereof and I grew up on [TS]

00:44:43   the IBM was at the IBM or something like [TS]

00:44:45   that [TS]

00:44:45   the the ridiculous chuckling springs you [TS]

00:44:48   love him [TS]

00:44:48   yeah and so I i'm not a keyboard snob [TS]

00:44:52   and I don't really typically care for [TS]

00:44:54   really loud clicking keyboards however i [TS]

00:44:57   love the magic keyboard more than [TS]

00:45:00   anything in the only flaw I see it is i [TS]

00:45:02   do agree with you that I wish I had the [TS]

00:45:03   inverted T so I love this thing [TS]

00:45:05   yeah totally with you on that but [TS]

00:45:07   overall like the magic keyboard i think [TS]

00:45:10   it's fine like I i have no problem with [TS]

00:45:12   that so if the tipster is right that the [TS]

00:45:14   new macbook pro keyboard is much closer [TS]

00:45:17   to that than to the macbook one keyboard [TS]

00:45:19   that's fine [TS]

00:45:21   however i would just generally to say [TS]

00:45:23   like I there were a few people on [TS]

00:45:24   Twitter who were kind of saying worrying [TS]

00:45:26   things to me earlier about how think [TS]

00:45:27   keyboard to keep getting thinner it is [TS]

00:45:30   great to have laptops that are thin [TS]

00:45:33   light but in general what matters more [TS]

00:45:35   is the light not the thin and keyboards [TS]

00:45:38   way almost nothing [TS]

00:45:40   no matter how thick they are like the [TS]

00:45:42   keyboard component of a laptop is mostly [TS]

00:45:45   empty space and the key travel is all [TS]

00:45:48   empty space of course the kids have to [TS]

00:45:49   move up and down all matter is mostly [TS]

00:45:51   empty space [TS]

00:45:52   thanks John and I so happy you had an [TS]

00:45:57   idea i was on the kick of like trying to [TS]

00:46:00   stop email from people who had the idea [TS]

00:46:04   the new the new level of well actually [TS]

00:46:06   well actually all matters most and [TS]

00:46:08   anybody gone i was gonna do it all right [TS]

00:46:14   so anyway so yeah keyboards are [TS]

00:46:16   extremely lightweight if you're talking [TS]

00:46:19   about making laptops thinner and lighter [TS]

00:46:21   again lighter matters more than thinner [TS]

00:46:24   and if it gets to the point where you [TS]

00:46:27   start sacrifice [TS]

00:46:28   pricing the usability of the keyboard if [TS]

00:46:31   you have to ship a crappy keyboard in [TS]

00:46:34   order to make the laptop you know [TS]

00:46:36   appealing visually to make it thinner [TS]

00:46:39   from the side which is an angle with [TS]

00:46:40   nobody ever looks at it i think that's a [TS]

00:46:42   bad choice i think apple went too far [TS]

00:46:44   with that but also harder to pick up by [TS]

00:46:46   the way as they get better it gets [TS]

00:46:48   harder to eventually it's like and I [TS]

00:46:50   know they cut the edges and they make it [TS]

00:46:51   but like at a certain point of you being [TS]

00:46:53   thinner and thinner you don't have [TS]

00:46:54   enough edge left to even come up and [TS]

00:46:56   have like you put it down is like trying [TS]

00:46:58   to pick a cooling-off very smooth table [TS]

00:47:00   is hard to do [TS]

00:47:00   yeah it also makes it harder to open the [TS]

00:47:02   lid but anyway and that's will wait to [TS]

00:47:04   anyway so like my point is i think if [TS]

00:47:07   you are optimizing a laptop for thinness [TS]

00:47:09   I think you're optimizing it for the [TS]

00:47:11   wrong thing you should let them this [TS]

00:47:13   follow from battery removals which will [TS]

00:47:17   result in a more efficient cpus more [TS]

00:47:19   efficient components things like that [TS]

00:47:20   and and things like getting rid of the [TS]

00:47:21   optical drive and you know make another [TS]

00:47:23   command center but i don't think you [TS]

00:47:24   should ever be at a point where you are [TS]

00:47:27   making the keyboard hard to use or less [TS]

00:47:30   economically friendly or otherwise [TS]

00:47:32   horrible for the sake of Shaving like [TS]

00:47:34   another millimeter off the case [TS]

00:47:35   thickness because if the laptop is still [TS]

00:47:38   very light and it's just like a [TS]

00:47:41   millimeter thicker to accommodate better [TS]

00:47:42   key switches that's fine [TS]

00:47:45   like that that's an acceptable trade-off [TS]

00:47:46   for a laptop because you want laptops to [TS]

00:47:49   be light but you don't need them to be [TS]

00:47:51   paper-thin and if you just like it we're [TS]

00:47:54   not talking about a big difference here [TS]

00:47:56   we're not talking about like going back [TS]

00:47:57   to the old powerbook g4 thickness to [TS]

00:47:59   have a decent keyboard you don't need [TS]

00:48:01   that you can look at today you can look [TS]

00:48:03   at the macbook air and you can look at [TS]

00:48:05   the macbook pro today and you know [TS]

00:48:07   personally what about to be in a few [TS]

00:48:08   months you can make a great laptop with [TS]

00:48:12   a great keyboard that's very very thin [TS]

00:48:14   but i think the map one took it too far [TS]

00:48:16   and and it sounds like with with the [TS]

00:48:18   these nuru macbook pros if all the [TS]

00:48:21   rumors are right if tipsters right i [TS]

00:48:23   think we'll be okay again I think we [TS]

00:48:24   will have really achieved a good balance [TS]

00:48:26   here so I'm looking forward to seeing [TS]

00:48:28   how it turns out i hope Apple does it [TS]

00:48:30   right and in general like i have i've [TS]

00:48:32   been you know very critical the macbook [TS]

00:48:35   one even the people of it that's fine if [TS]

00:48:36   you can if you love it [TS]

00:48:37   good for you i'm happy for you in [TS]

00:48:39   general I expect [TS]

00:48:41   the new macbook pro to be awesome [TS]

00:48:44   both 13 and 15 based on both what we've [TS]

00:48:47   heard what's been reported and just [TS]

00:48:49   based on you know Apple the things that [TS]

00:48:53   really matter [TS]

00:48:54   things like the iPhone Apple is really [TS]

00:48:57   how they have a fantastic track record [TS]

00:48:59   you know Apple has never made a bad [TS]

00:49:02   iphone and similarly I don't think Apple [TS]

00:49:05   has ever made a bad macbook pro there [TS]

00:49:08   were there been a few that have been [TS]

00:49:09   slightly imperfect but for the most part [TS]

00:49:11   the macbook pro they just nail is it has [TS]

00:49:15   such a good history such a good track [TS]

00:49:18   record and they it has to because the [TS]

00:49:21   macbook pro is like the workhorse of the [TS]

00:49:25   entire industry like pretty much every [TS]

00:49:28   like web developer most you know almost [TS]

00:49:30   every Apple Developer tons people inside [TS]

00:49:32   Apple tons of journalists tons of people [TS]

00:49:34   tons of students like the macbook pro is [TS]

00:49:37   such the workhorse of so many people [TS]

00:49:39   they can't screw like they like it [TS]

00:49:42   like legally they can't they just can't [TS]

00:49:44   screw it up like and they know that [TS]

00:49:45   Apple I think would not take lightly [TS]

00:49:48   major changes to the macbook pro and [TS]

00:49:51   their track record is so good that i am [TS]

00:49:53   confident that this is going to be [TS]

00:49:54   awesome and so I you know even though [TS]

00:49:58   i'm skeptical of many of the things that [TS]

00:49:59   Apple does these days I I definitely [TS]

00:50:02   give him the benefit of the doubt that [TS]

00:50:04   whatever we here but this new macbook [TS]

00:50:07   pro that might sound a little bit weird [TS]

00:50:08   it's probably going to be awesome [TS]

00:50:10   yeah i agree i'm really looking forward [TS]

00:50:14   to this to me i feel like i would just [TS]

00:50:18   be thrilled if the next Mac Pro had a [TS]

00:50:21   keyboard as close to the magic keyboard [TS]

00:50:23   as possible and also an SD card slot [TS]

00:50:26   that didn't rip my damn SD card reach [TS]

00:50:28   switch SD card slot no no you get USB 3 [TS]

00:50:32   ports USB c-type see connectors and [TS]

00:50:35   that's all you like it mr. and probably [TS]

00:50:37   right and I was being silly about the SD [TS]

00:50:39   card thing but anyway I think an [TS]

00:50:41   improved keyboard would be great i don't [TS]

00:50:42   think the current keyboards are bad i [TS]

00:50:44   just freaking love he imagined keyboard [TS]

00:50:46   but i agree with you mark i think that [TS]

00:50:48   that they have a great track record and [TS]

00:50:50   I I can't see them releasing a dud and [TS]

00:50:54   even though some of these rumors are [TS]

00:50:55   making me scratching my head a little [TS]

00:50:56   bit i'm really really amped to see these [TS]

00:50:59   and also miserable because i'm not [TS]

00:51:02   getting a new mac from for more work for [TS]

00:51:04   another two years i think and I'm [TS]

00:51:07   certainly not buying one for home so [TS]

00:51:08   i'll be sad i'm still looking for [TS]

00:51:12   reading air i know the 13 will be so the [TS]

00:51:15   middle almost the air like but now that [TS]

00:51:17   the air has been treated up from that of [TS]

00:51:19   the 5k imac used to have the air connect [TS]

00:51:21   with Thunderbolt Display not just the [TS]

00:51:22   air is like rallying around the house [TS]

00:51:24   and my daughter is smearing or you're [TS]

00:51:26   recovered fingers on it and I'm [TS]

00:51:27   routinely cleaning it anyway [TS]

00:51:28   13 chair is such a great form factor for [TS]

00:51:31   laptop is such a good machine the screen [TS]

00:51:33   is crap but everything is about it is [TS]

00:51:37   like a 2011 model right that screen is [TS]

00:51:39   not good but everything else about it is [TS]

00:51:40   just so nice and because it's a 21-month [TS]

00:51:42   like five year old computer it looks [TS]

00:51:44   great it and so now hopefully maybe [TS]

00:51:48   these 13 will get down to the point [TS]

00:51:49   where it's getting close that because [TS]

00:51:51   there haven't been updated and he said [TS]

00:51:52   the pros the workforce is the workhorse [TS]

00:51:54   of like you know professional people are [TS]

00:51:55   people who need some sort of computing [TS]

00:51:57   power to their job but the air is worthy [TS]

00:52:00   sort of computing for the the lap the [TS]

00:52:05   apple laptop for the rest of us where [TS]

00:52:07   you're not going to be compiling stuff [TS]

00:52:08   you just want to like browse the rebbe [TS]

00:52:10   web and write papers for school or [TS]

00:52:11   whatever its it was such a great student [TS]

00:52:13   computers such a great computer people [TS]

00:52:15   don't have particularly demanding needs [TS]

00:52:16   a real a real high point they're going [TS]

00:52:18   to look back on the the great max the [TS]

00:52:21   the 13 chair that that design that genet [TS]

00:52:23   if not the particular interests but like [TS]

00:52:25   when they redesigned the case and [TS]

00:52:26   everything [TS]

00:52:27   yeah it was a great computer that's the [TS]

00:52:28   zone and so like that the pros the first [TS]

00:52:32   threatening ones were pretty impressive [TS]

00:52:33   and now they're going to go super thin [TS]

00:52:35   and just have the USBC port on the side [TS]

00:52:37   and just shave off all those things [TS]

00:52:38   these have the potential to be really [TS]

00:52:40   great long-lasting computers to remember [TS]

00:52:43   the that the touch ID and the weird you [TS]

00:52:47   know screen keys and stuff also has the [TS]

00:52:50   potential to have them go wrong until [TS]

00:52:51   they sort that out but like you said [TS]

00:52:54   like they're surely they've had enough [TS]

00:52:55   time to work out these kinks and this is [TS]

00:52:57   the type of thing that could have been [TS]

00:52:58   working on for a long time so [TS]

00:53:00   I i have some confidence that they're [TS]

00:53:02   going to be good as well although I have [TS]

00:53:04   to admit when I saw you Marco tweeting [TS]

00:53:06   about the thin keyboard thing I thought [TS]

00:53:09   you were talking about their external [TS]

00:53:11   desktop keyboard that also keep getting [TS]

00:53:13   thinner for even advised us that even [TS]

00:53:15   more mysterious reasons not just like [TS]

00:53:16   you know I talked about the with before [TS]

00:53:18   with the United but they're also getting [TS]

00:53:19   like thinner as in lower to the desk is [TS]

00:53:22   that is wasting away so that is going to [TS]

00:53:24   give you a bunch of key caps and you [TS]

00:53:25   throw them on your desk [TS]

00:53:27   it's not really in Apple's demands I [TS]

00:53:30   mean one of the reasons i don't use [TS]

00:53:31   their desktop keyboard is that the [TS]

00:53:33   ergonomics horrible on the men and I I [TS]

00:53:35   need something better economics to [TS]

00:53:37   prevent RSI problems in their defense [TS]

00:53:40   though the worst thing about ergonomics [TS]

00:53:42   of most desktop keyboard is when the [TS]

00:53:45   back is higher than the front that you [TS]

00:53:47   know the the former tilt and that's [TS]

00:53:49   terrible for ergonomics and by the way [TS]

00:53:50   anybody listening if you if you have the [TS]

00:53:52   feet slipped up on the back so that your [TS]

00:53:54   keyboard is tilted even more for God's [TS]

00:53:56   sake flip those feet down put something [TS]

00:53:57   under the front to make it level [TS]

00:53:59   yeah there's a reason why you look at [TS]

00:54:00   natural keyboards now let the microsoft [TS]

00:54:02   sculpt and everything [TS]

00:54:04   there's a reason why they come with this [TS]

00:54:05   big riser on the front that lifts the [TS]

00:54:07   front of so it's actually tilting away [TS]

00:54:09   from you and everyone thinks it looks [TS]

00:54:11   weird it does the first time you see it [TS]

00:54:13   but way better for ergonomics there's a [TS]

00:54:15   reason for that anyway you know it if [TS]

00:54:18   Apple makes their keyboards thinner it [TS]

00:54:20   actually reduces the tilt inherently and [TS]

00:54:23   so it it's slightly improve the [TS]

00:54:25   ergonomics they can still be totally [TS]

00:54:28   level like I have a really old like [TS]

00:54:29   translucent plastic apple USB keyboard i [TS]

00:54:31   saw in the Attic when I was cleaning [TS]

00:54:32   stuff up those were pretty much [TS]

00:54:34   perfectly flat as well although they did [TS]

00:54:35   have stupid feet in the back but anyway [TS]

00:54:37   you can make a keyboard that is level it [TS]

00:54:39   just doesn't have to be level and also [TS]

00:54:41   the thickness of three credit cards [TS]

00:54:42   because again i fear that they're going [TS]

00:54:44   to get to the point where they're [TS]

00:54:45   starting to sacrifice travel on the [TS]

00:54:46   desktop models like what-what space are [TS]

00:54:48   you saving the airspace above my desk [TS]

00:54:50   you want to save two millimeters of [TS]

00:54:51   airspace pleased with wise and height [TS]

00:54:54   wise not going out to the thing that and [TS]

00:54:56   I understand the part sharing with [TS]

00:54:57   laptops like that's why I think about it [TS]

00:54:59   could it could literally be the same [TS]

00:55:00   exact part i haven't seen the magic [TS]

00:55:02   keyboard i can't tell if it's actually a [TS]

00:55:03   laptop for the part but anyway I [TS]

00:55:05   understand the the economies of scale [TS]

00:55:07   going on here [TS]

00:55:08   I just think that the desktop keyboards [TS]

00:55:10   and also the little edges around people [TS]

00:55:11   like sometimes it's hard to pick up my [TS]

00:55:12   keyboard [TS]

00:55:13   remove it because how to help you pick [TS]

00:55:14   it up because the key caps go right to [TS]

00:55:15   the edge it's it's a little bit extreme [TS]

00:55:17   it's a little bit we're getting into the [TS]

00:55:19   realm of a form over function we're like [TS]

00:55:22   what we have to do with the keyboard i [TS]

00:55:23   want to type on it sometimes you have to [TS]

00:55:25   move it around [TS]

00:55:26   I don't really care if it looks like a I [TS]

00:55:30   mean I do care if it looks like a [TS]

00:55:31   beautiful piece of art but when that [TS]

00:55:32   looks starts to compromise the basic [TS]

00:55:36   things I do is my keyboard including [TS]

00:55:37   occasionally picking them up or moving [TS]

00:55:39   them around that silly but but that is [TS]

00:55:41   today's apple like that the desktop [TS]

00:55:44   keyboards I mean if there's ever a thing [TS]

00:55:47   that they make that that that form over [TS]

00:55:49   function wins its hits the it's like the [TS]

00:55:52   desktop and peripherals because the the [TS]

00:55:55   function part doesn't really matter [TS]

00:55:57   anybody who cares about the ergonomics [TS]

00:56:00   or the size of the layout of the key [TS]

00:56:01   switches are the thickness of your [TS]

00:56:03   desktop keyboard there is to use a [TS]

00:56:04   different keyboard and this is like [TS]

00:56:06   exactly the kind of area where Johnny is [TS]

00:56:09   going to come in and be like all right [TS]

00:56:10   well this needs to look even thinner and [TS]

00:56:12   even sleeker so that looks great all of [TS]

00:56:14   our press shots into the imac looks [TS]

00:56:15   great and and they look great in the [TS]

00:56:17   stores and the boxes can be smaller and [TS]

00:56:19   all the stuff like that [TS]

00:56:20   this is exactly the kind of area where [TS]

00:56:22   Apple would absolutely go nuts and and [TS]

00:56:25   sacrifice functionality for form and the [TS]

00:56:28   the cost of that isn't so big it's way [TS]

00:56:32   worse than laptops dress up like you [TS]

00:56:33   you're kind of stuck with the keyboard [TS]

00:56:34   that any laptop so that that I think is [TS]

00:56:37   is the bigger area we have to watch out [TS]

00:56:39   for and I do feel like even though i [TS]

00:56:41   just got on praising apple for how often [TS]

00:56:42   they're probably going to be with this I [TS]

00:56:44   do feel like without that I'm kind of [TS]

00:56:46   always on edge trying to like defend and [TS]

00:56:49   hold onto things on on apple products [TS]

00:56:53   that that work well or are economically [TS]

00:56:55   friendly because i feel like i'm always [TS]

00:56:57   battling Jony ive on like no you please [TS]

00:57:01   stop making things worse or harder to [TS]

00:57:04   use or more slippery or what you know [TS]

00:57:07   with work the apple TV remote he can't [TS]

00:57:10   even tell which way is up and your [TS]

00:57:11   present things wrongly please like [TS]

00:57:13   please Johnny stop stay away from my [TS]

00:57:15   things you're standing off all the [TS]

00:57:17   things that make them usable like and i [TS]

00:57:19   am a little bit worried about that that [TS]

00:57:22   angle of apple kind of taking over more [TS]

00:57:24   than it should [TS]

00:57:25   and.and that I think long-term both [TS]

00:57:28   present and into the near future i think [TS]

00:57:30   that is a major concern that many of us [TS]

00:57:32   should have about Apple that real world [TS]

00:57:35   usability and ergonomics it seemed to be [TS]

00:57:37   a very low priority an ever-shrinking [TS]

00:57:39   one that they're happy to borrow from to [TS]

00:57:43   make gains in fitness and appearance or [TS]

00:57:45   they just forgotten how to do it but [TS]

00:57:47   like the keyboard i have the Apple [TS]

00:57:49   extended alone keyboard i bought many of [TS]

00:57:51   these I've gone through a couple of them [TS]

00:57:53   actually breaking the keys but maybe [TS]

00:57:55   doesn't speak to the reliability of the [TS]

00:57:56   keyboard considering use the Apple [TS]

00:57:57   extended to four years and the only way [TS]

00:57:59   I broke it is because i drop my [TS]

00:58:00   pocketknife off-the-shelf onto it and [TS]

00:58:02   snapped off one of the function keys but [TS]

00:58:04   i like the Apple extended aluminum [TS]

00:58:07   keyboard in every aspect except for the [TS]

00:58:09   fact that the stupid top row function [TS]

00:58:11   keys is too close to the number keys and [TS]

00:58:14   is not full size but every other aspect [TS]

00:58:16   of it [TS]

00:58:17   I like that it's thin and small and [TS]

00:58:19   doesn't have any excess room it doesn't [TS]

00:58:21   have any excess sort of trimming and [TS]

00:58:22   stuff around it could be a little bit [TS]

00:58:24   flattered as I still up a little bit but [TS]

00:58:25   it is i think the a reasonable [TS]

00:58:29   interpretation of the minimalist flat [TS]

00:58:30   thing i like the fact that the keys have [TS]

00:58:32   low effort because that helps my RSI [TS]

00:58:33   then i can type on the underground [TS]

00:58:36   keyboard so like if you if given the [TS]

00:58:37   choice of you can have any keyboard in [TS]

00:58:39   the world with your new mac this is [TS]

00:58:40   still the one that I would pick because [TS]

00:58:41   it's still basically my favorite [TS]

00:58:44   keyboard out of all the ones that i've [TS]

00:58:45   tried you know and I can't use my Apple [TS]

00:58:47   extended to anymore but they went a [TS]

00:58:51   little bit father the next keyboards [TS]

00:58:52   like well the other one had a little bit [TS]

00:58:54   of a rim around the edge so you could [TS]

00:58:55   pick it up can we shave that off and the [TS]

00:58:57   answer is yes we can and we put it [TS]

00:58:59   directly down to the ground instead of [TS]

00:59:00   having a lip where you can get your [TS]

00:59:01   fingers underneath it well we can do [TS]

00:59:02   that too [TS]

00:59:03   and can you take off all those useful [TS]

00:59:04   keys that people use sometimes yep they [TS]

00:59:06   can do that too and I'm set but you [TS]

00:59:08   still buy this one by the way like you [TS]

00:59:10   can still buy the extended keyboard with [TS]

00:59:12   your new computer it's just it's like [TS]

00:59:13   you feel like you're getting the last [TS]

00:59:15   generation think you can buy this shiny [TS]

00:59:16   new keyboard that in case he has that he [TS]

00:59:18   loved so much for these cookies switches [TS]

00:59:20   that I i like to i tried the apple store [TS]

00:59:21   i think they're great to or you can get [TS]

00:59:24   this old keyboard that silly people use [TS]

00:59:26   with the extra keys on [TS]

00:59:27   yeah I one of the things i love about [TS]

00:59:29   this keyboard is that it is so darn flat [TS]

00:59:32   now I wouldn't say I is verse was [TS]

00:59:36   seeking out a keyboard that's flat but [TS]

00:59:38   now that it's in front [TS]

00:59:39   of me I like that it's so flat because i [TS]

00:59:41   feel like it works better for me or [TS]

00:59:44   economically now maybe that's wrong [TS]

00:59:45   maybe I'm maybe I'm crazy but it feels [TS]

00:59:48   good to me and and i like that if i [TS]

00:59:51   decide to take my ipad on a trip for [TS]

00:59:54   example and I don't want to take my [TS]

00:59:56   full-on 15-inch work computer [TS]

00:59:58   I just throw this keep [TS]

00:59:58   I just throw this keep [TS]

01:00:00   bored in my bag and it's like it's not [TS]

01:00:01   even there it's then it's light and it's [TS]

01:00:03   my favorite keyboard i have ever used so [TS]

01:00:07   I I know I talk about a constant but i [TS]

01:00:09   cannot say enough good things about this [TS]

01:00:11   keyboard is a great portable keyboard [TS]

01:00:13   but you know and I'm not buying it for [TS]

01:00:15   portable environments like this is the [TS]

01:00:16   one is going to be attached and by the [TS]

01:00:17   way i like when they're attached with [TS]

01:00:18   the wire because again i have a place [TS]

01:00:20   for the wire to go and I don't need to [TS]

01:00:22   deal with bluetooth and I don't need to [TS]

01:00:23   deal with batteries because it's never [TS]

01:00:24   go anywhere it's always gonna be plugged [TS]

01:00:26   into my computer it'll be fine [TS]

01:00:28   hey I like I and the flatness again is [TS]

01:00:31   not an innovation this particular [TS]

01:00:32   keyboard because they like said that has [TS]

01:00:34   been flat keyboard for apple and others [TS]

01:00:35   forever and ever and ever [TS]

01:00:36   without any feet without anything that [TS]

01:00:38   it's nice and level it's the talking in [TS]

01:00:41   of the edges and the bringing of the [TS]

01:00:42   edges straight down to the table and and [TS]

01:00:44   the trimming off of the keys and me not [TS]

01:00:47   having a space between the numbers in [TS]

01:00:49   the function keys because that would [TS]

01:00:50   make the keyboard ever so slightly [TS]

01:00:51   bigger it's like yeah alright if you're [TS]

01:00:53   making a portable keyboard i see that [TS]

01:00:55   trade-off you wanted to fit in your [TS]

01:00:56   backpack every every millimeter counts [TS]

01:00:58   it's gonna be on my desk every [TS]

01:00:59   millimeter does not count in the same [TS]

01:01:01   way and it just strikes me as a bad [TS]

01:01:02   trade-off we're all sponsors night by [TS]

01:01:05   freshbooks freshbooks created cloud [TS]

01:01:07   accounting software so ridiculously [TS]

01:01:09   simple to use there were five million [TS]

01:01:11   small business owners are now officially [TS]

01:01:13   feeling the freshbooks effect there's a [TS]

01:01:15   lot more smiling and way less stress [TS]

01:01:16   when it comes to dealing with [TS]

01:01:17   administration paperwork invoicing and [TS]

01:01:20   getting paid now invoicing is what made [TS]

01:01:22   fresh book so big and they still do it [TS]

01:01:25   the best reason freshbooks to create [TS]

01:01:26   invoice literally takes a grand total of [TS]

01:01:28   about 30 seconds no formulas no [TS]

01:01:30   formatting perfectly crafted invoices [TS]

01:01:33   every time and you can let people pay [TS]

01:01:35   you online right through freshbooks [TS]

01:01:38   through payment gateways to various [TS]

01:01:40   options that you can you can enable and [TS]

01:01:42   you can pick if you want your clients [TS]

01:01:44   can pay you right online you get paid [TS]

01:01:46   faster they actually have data to [TS]

01:01:47   support this when it's easier to pay you [TS]

01:01:49   you get paid faster you they also offer [TS]

01:01:52   a mobile card reader so if you do work [TS]

01:01:54   in person you can actually have with all [TS]

01:01:57   three freshbooks alter the invoicing [TS]

01:01:58   system they have this mobile carburetor [TS]

01:02:00   and you can actually accept credit cards [TS]

01:02:02   to get paid in person get paid even [TS]

01:02:04   faster if people are slow to pay your [TS]

01:02:07   invoices they have overdue payment [TS]

01:02:08   reminders so you don't have to have that [TS]

01:02:10   awkward conversation you can have fresh [TS]

01:02:11   habit for you [TS]

01:02:12   these are configurable [TS]

01:02:13   course you can configure the message you [TS]

01:02:14   configure when it's sent who was sent to [TS]

01:02:16   and going beyond friend but going beyond [TS]

01:02:20   the invoicing that they started with [TS]

01:02:21   they also have expense tracking so you [TS]

01:02:24   can track the receipts you can have an [TS]

01:02:26   import transaction from your bank [TS]

01:02:27   automatically that are eating whether to [TS]

01:02:29   receipt or not you can have an import [TS]

01:02:31   all transactions it can generate expense [TS]

01:02:33   reports for you can integrate that whole [TS]

01:02:34   thing into the invoicing system it is so [TS]

01:02:36   advanced just and you can use the fresh [TS]

01:02:38   books app take pictures of receipts that [TS]

01:02:40   you get in real-life on your mobile [TS]

01:02:42   device and you can let freshbooks pretty [TS]

01:02:43   much handle the rest [TS]

01:02:45   this is such an advanced platform this [TS]

01:02:46   is only a very limited part of what it [TS]

01:02:48   can do because all the teachers don't [TS]

01:02:49   fit in a two-minute add read so check it [TS]

01:02:52   out today yourself to feel the full [TS]

01:02:54   force of the freshbooks effect totally [TS]

01:02:55   free for 30 days just go to fresh [TS]

01:02:58   books.com / ATP and please enter ATP and [TS]

01:03:02   how did you hear about us section so [TS]

01:03:03   they know for sure that you came from [TS]

01:03:05   here once again free trial 30 days go to [TS]

01:03:08   facebook.com slash ATP thanks a lot so [TS]

01:03:14   you had written a post Marco about [TS]

01:03:16   whether or not apples kind of allowing [TS]

01:03:18   themselves to get left behind on this [TS]

01:03:20   whole intelligent assistant thing can be [TS]

01:03:23   talking with the microprocessor more [TS]

01:03:24   instead I think we've been that's death [TS]

01:03:26   this morning so I I don't necessarily [TS]

01:03:30   need to get into the article too much [TS]

01:03:32   but I thought it was reasonable [TS]

01:03:34   I'm and then curiously rule day or two [TS]

01:03:37   later there's a article on the [TS]

01:03:41   information about Apple's opening up [TS]

01:03:44   Siri and it's developing an echo rival [TS]

01:03:46   interesting i mean this is this could be [TS]

01:03:51   a coincidence [TS]

01:03:52   it could be a controlled leaking [TS]

01:03:53   response i have no idea it's probably a [TS]

01:03:55   coincidence if I you know it can be [TS]

01:03:57   realistic here but yeah I mean so I mean [TS]

01:04:01   I don't want to go too far into the just [TS]

01:04:03   a miracle was this is another one this [TS]

01:04:04   one of these situations where like I [TS]

01:04:06   write something critical critical about [TS]

01:04:07   Apple my blog and just goes everywhere [TS]

01:04:10   this time I don't feel bad about it this [TS]

01:04:13   time they look with what the whole [TS]

01:04:15   functional high ground thing I mean we [TS]

01:04:16   felt bad about it because it you know AI [TS]

01:04:19   I did not expect that all I've never [TS]

01:04:22   seen that kind of response before so it [TS]

01:04:24   was more it was more of a shock [TS]

01:04:26   be the bigger [TS]

01:04:27   the reason is that I just didn't write [TS]

01:04:28   very well I didn't do a very good job of [TS]

01:04:30   writing it and so I was kind of [TS]

01:04:32   embarrassed that a lot of people [TS]

01:04:34   including like people at Apple saw this [TS]

01:04:37   and it wasn't very good work that's why [TS]

01:04:39   I I kind of had a hard time back then [TS]

01:04:42   with the with the high ground thing but [TS]

01:04:44   this time I i wrote this piece knowing [TS]

01:04:47   that there was a chance that it might [TS]

01:04:49   spread although i didn't expect the [TS]

01:04:51   spread of God at all but knowing there [TS]

01:04:54   was a chance it might spread and I wrote [TS]

01:04:56   it very carefully much more carefully [TS]

01:04:59   than the high ground thing and I think [TS]

01:05:01   what came out I I stand by the only [TS]

01:05:03   thing that I regret it was the idea [TS]

01:05:05   originally titled it avoiding [TS]

01:05:08   blackberries fate that kind of implied [TS]

01:05:11   that if apple doesn't make this big [TS]

01:05:12   shift they will definitely fail the way [TS]

01:05:14   blackberry did exactly and that was not [TS]

01:05:17   my point that I was trying to make so so [TS]

01:05:20   I retitled it about a day in something [TS]

01:05:23   more more closer to what I actually [TS]

01:05:25   meant the rest of it I i totally stand [TS]

01:05:28   by and I don't regret it at all and so I [TS]

01:05:30   feel pretty good about it and it did [TS]

01:05:32   spread way further than I thought and [TS]

01:05:34   many of the of the crappy rewrites of it [TS]

01:05:37   have have been crappy Business Insider [TS]

01:05:40   did what they always do and that's fine [TS]

01:05:42   i said there was interested to the fish [TS]

01:05:44   meat stick video and and you know it all [TS]

01:05:48   the sensational news sites and all the [TS]

01:05:51   crappy TV people and all the other [TS]

01:05:53   crappy sites there they're gonna do with [TS]

01:05:56   the what they're going to do and all [TS]

01:05:58   like all i need is to be comfortable [TS]

01:06:00   myself in standing by what i wrote me [TS]

01:06:04   knowing myself that I did good work that [TS]

01:06:07   I wrote it right that i express myself [TS]

01:06:08   properly in the way I wanted to play [TS]

01:06:11   myself you will not get that reference [TS]

01:06:12   at all high and i'm happy with what i [TS]

01:06:16   wrote and so what i wrote basically [TS]

01:06:18   which I realize now i forgot to say at [TS]

01:06:20   the beginning of this giant ramp sorry [TS]

01:06:22   yeah I don't stand by this giant right [TS]

01:06:24   now but so what you know whatever it was [TS]

01:06:28   basically i think at you know Google and [TS]

01:06:31   Amazon and Facebook and as many people [TS]

01:06:34   pointed out which I didn't [TS]

01:06:36   microsoft there all day making these [TS]

01:06:39   huge developments in [TS]

01:06:40   in a I like big data services so things [TS]

01:06:44   like you know obviously in the old days [TS]

01:06:46   things like search and maps and [TS]

01:06:48   directory stuff and then now in recent [TS]

01:06:49   recent times these like kinda like [TS]

01:06:52   assistant virtual assistants chatbot [TS]

01:06:54   things like Syrian Cortana and google [TS]

01:06:56   now and stuff like that and that the [TS]

01:06:58   Amazon echo and the google home people [TS]

01:07:00   thing and whatever you know whatever [TS]

01:07:02   Amazon Apple and Facebook everybody [TS]

01:07:04   we're going to put next if the industry [TS]

01:07:07   shifts to prioritize the functionality [TS]

01:07:10   of these virtual assistants of this kind [TS]

01:07:13   of big data AI problem as like the [TS]

01:07:17   primary thing people care about are the [TS]

01:07:18   primary functionality people want Apple [TS]

01:07:21   is not in a good place for that you know [TS]

01:07:23   right like it and I made the blackberry [TS]

01:07:25   now he's like you know when when the [TS]

01:07:27   iphone came out blackberry was on top of [TS]

01:07:30   the world and they were doing really [TS]

01:07:32   well the reason blackberry was so [TS]

01:07:35   screwed is because when Apple came out [TS]

01:07:38   they changed the game completely to to [TS]

01:07:41   raise everyone's expectations of what [TS]

01:07:44   phones could and should do in areas that [TS]

01:07:47   RIM you know they didn't they could not [TS]

01:07:50   catch up at that point if they wanted to [TS]

01:07:52   because like Apple had moved the [TS]

01:07:54   goalposts into this area where ok now to [TS]

01:07:56   be competitive you need to have a [TS]

01:07:58   desktop class operating system this is [TS]

01:08:00   this incredibly complex manufacturing [TS]

01:08:03   pipeline to make these incredibly [TS]

01:08:05   precise high-quality devices this [TS]

01:08:07   massive store ecosystem of these credit [TS]

01:08:09   cards on file and all these developer [TS]

01:08:12   tools and the ecosystem of computers [TS]

01:08:14   around women's and like all this crazy [TS]

01:08:16   stuff that like you know that the iphone [TS]

01:08:19   was all the stuff that enabled the [TS]

01:08:21   iphone with assets that Apple had been [TS]

01:08:24   building up for like a decade before [TS]

01:08:25   that no matter what blackberry did that [TS]

01:08:28   point because they weren't building that [TS]

01:08:30   kind of assets for a decade they were [TS]

01:08:32   not going to catch up and in and the [TS]

01:08:34   writing was on the wall soon as a phone [TS]

01:08:36   as soon as Steve showed the iphone and [TS]

01:08:38   in early early 07 before you can blow up [TS]

01:08:40   with the appstore year later the [TS]

01:08:42   writing's on the wall blackberry because [TS]

01:08:44   they like the gap was too wide [TS]

01:08:46   they would not be able to catch up to [TS]

01:08:47   what the iphone had now redefined [TS]

01:08:49   smartphones to be a look now and and you [TS]

01:08:52   see these services that [TS]

01:08:54   you know like Apple started at this [TS]

01:08:55   whole thing with Cirie and yes I know [TS]

01:08:58   Google is doing voices before that yes [TS]

01:09:00   thank you but you know apple kind of [TS]

01:09:02   started like that the virtual assistant [TS]

01:09:03   revolution with Siri in 2011 [TS]

01:09:07   yes 11 it has it has progressed it has [TS]

01:09:10   gotten better has gotten more advantages [TS]

01:09:11   added more languages around the world is [TS]

01:09:13   not an easy thing to do but ultimately I [TS]

01:09:16   series still feels like a first [TS]

01:09:19   generation version of this product while [TS]

01:09:22   the competitors are all moving past that [TS]

01:09:25   in in certain attributes so you look at [TS]

01:09:27   like the Amazon echo and the echo only [TS]

01:09:30   supports basically us english and only [TS]

01:09:33   is useful to people in the US for most [TS]

01:09:35   of its functionality but the [TS]

01:09:38   functionality it does for those us [TS]

01:09:40   english speakers it does that stuff [TS]

01:09:43   better and more reliably and faster than [TS]

01:09:45   Cirie does most of the time I look at [TS]

01:09:48   you know google is going to be way [TS]

01:09:51   better at international support way [TS]

01:09:53   better different languages and Google's [TS]

01:09:56   also doing a lot of this stuff better [TS]

01:09:57   faster more reliably now with but [TS]

01:10:01   they're good but they're google now [TS]

01:10:02   stuff and all the other Android things I [TS]

01:10:04   don't understand you know it's it's hard [TS]

01:10:07   to look at this and to see ya if if if [TS]

01:10:10   we all start using these virtual [TS]

01:10:11   assistants as our primary interfaces [TS]

01:10:13   like in two years or whatever like is [TS]

01:10:15   Apple really gonna catch up to what [TS]

01:10:18   Google is doing and what they will have [TS]

01:10:20   in two years I don't think so because [TS]

01:10:23   Apple Apple is not good at big data [TS]

01:10:27   problems you know number one example [TS]

01:10:30   this is the App Store search you could [TS]

01:10:33   argue okay well maybe that's like one [TS]

01:10:35   department that has these technical [TS]

01:10:36   burdens or whatever else fine maybe [TS]

01:10:38   that's true okay what about Cirie we're [TS]

01:10:40   really matters a lot [TS]

01:10:42   serie again it's it's kind of a genuine [TS]

01:10:44   product and a gentoo world now and so it [TS]

01:10:48   is possible we've we've heard lots of [TS]

01:10:50   rumblings that apple will the Apple has [TS]

01:10:53   made some some key acquisitions and [TS]

01:10:55   investments over the last year too and [TS]

01:10:58   that you know this wdc they're going to [TS]

01:11:00   come out some major and it's going to be [TS]

01:11:01   amazing and that might be true but just [TS]

01:11:04   as i said earlier that Apple has an [TS]

01:11:06   amazing track record [TS]

01:11:07   of macbook pro updates Apple has a [TS]

01:11:10   really terrible track record of big data [TS]

01:11:13   AI problem updates [TS]

01:11:14   youyou hero we've improved Syria we [TS]

01:11:16   ordered we've now add these capabilities [TS]

01:11:18   are now it's better now you can do this [TS]

01:11:20   and and yet somehow it still reliable [TS]

01:11:23   and consistent and sometimes not that [TS]

01:11:25   smart [TS]

01:11:26   Apple has the opposite problem here of [TS]

01:11:28   any hype that's about like what Apple [TS]

01:11:31   might do it everybody c22 to all of a [TS]

01:11:34   sudden show us that they're like an [TS]

01:11:36   amazing AI and big data company i don't [TS]

01:11:39   believe that for a second I i would love [TS]

01:11:41   to be proven wrong [TS]

01:11:42   I really hope I'm proven wrong because I [TS]

01:11:44   would so much rather have apple do well [TS]

01:11:47   this stuff then have to switch on my [TS]

01:11:48   garbage to Android but I don't have a [TS]

01:11:53   lot of confidence in apple doing this [TS]

01:11:54   stuff because their track record is not [TS]

01:11:56   very strong so there was an interesting [TS]

01:11:58   article that I saw today and i'm [TS]

01:12:01   assuming was posted a notice yesterday [TS]

01:12:03   on pixel envy and it was titled meet [TS]

01:12:07   vocal like you look like he was a small [TS]

01:12:08   camera based startup once in 2011 that [TS]

01:12:10   specialized natural speaker recognition [TS]

01:12:12   conversational interactions from The [TS]

01:12:15   Times article this is x UK put published [TS]

01:12:19   in june blah blah blah this is a quote [TS]

01:12:22   from one of their one of their employees [TS]

01:12:24   one of our key projects is to develop a [TS]

01:12:27   car that can talk to you like in Knight [TS]

01:12:30   Rider awesome so these people got [TS]

01:12:35   acquired by apple in october and so [TS]

01:12:40   there's a quote by someone who's been [TS]

01:12:43   following this if Apple utilizes just a [TS]

01:12:45   small subset of the technology developed [TS]

01:12:47   by vocal likey we will see a far more [TS]

01:12:48   advanced serie however I'm quite certain [TS]

01:12:50   that the amazing work of Tom Gruber will [TS]

01:12:52   also be utilized additionally the [TS]

01:12:53   amazing technology from emollient [TS]

01:12:55   perception and a number of other [TS]

01:12:56   unannounced and future Apple [TS]

01:12:58   acquisitions will also become a big part [TS]

01:13:01   of apples AI future so perception [TS]

01:13:05   apparently was actually percept do which [TS]

01:13:08   was a photo classification startup which [TS]

01:13:12   reminds me a lot of google photos which [TS]

01:13:14   i've also been talking about constantly [TS]

01:13:16   lately because it is amazing so you put [TS]

01:13:18   all this together in this this is hardik [TS]

01:13:21   which is very short ends with so who's [TS]

01:13:23   excited for WWDC and I just think it's [TS]

01:13:26   interesting you know they've been making [TS]

01:13:27   a lot of acquisitions that are right in [TS]

01:13:29   the right in this wheelhouse and we [TS]

01:13:31   don't know what they've been up to but [TS]

01:13:33   hopefully there's something there I hope [TS]

01:13:36   that's right i mean again like I really [TS]

01:13:39   hope I'm wrong on this [TS]

01:13:40   I really hope apple just suddenly comes [TS]

01:13:42   out and is really good at this stuff [TS]

01:13:45   unfortunately I don't think it works [TS]

01:13:46   that way i don't think this is the kind [TS]

01:13:48   of thing you can do quickly one thing [TS]

01:13:50   that's worth investigating [TS]

01:13:51   is that they made acquisitions like this [TS]

01:13:54   and like the Syrian people [TS]

01:13:55   why did what is people not stick around [TS]

01:13:59   you know like is there something about [TS]

01:14:00   Apple's culture that order or their [TS]

01:14:03   organizational structure or the [TS]

01:14:04   departments that these people are hired [TS]

01:14:06   to work in what like why don't they [TS]

01:14:09   stick around [TS]

01:14:10   why why does Apple need to go buying [TS]

01:14:12   people in order to get this kind of [TS]

01:14:15   talent in the company like is this a [TS]

01:14:16   problem and are there other ways to fix [TS]

01:14:18   this other problem to be solved first I [TS]

01:14:20   don't know I don't know enough about how [TS]

01:14:22   they work internally to really to have [TS]

01:14:25   good insight into this but what I can [TS]

01:14:27   see it from the outside and again like I [TS]

01:14:30   mean every time anybody criticizes [TS]

01:14:32   anything or have some kind of fear about [TS]

01:14:33   apple or or tries to you know it was [TS]

01:14:36   pessimistic about apple in the [TS]

01:14:38   springtime everyone always says oh just [TS]

01:14:41   wait i'll just wait you're gonna see [TS]

01:14:43   this is it this is so stupid for you to [TS]

01:14:45   be thinking about this now because just [TS]

01:14:46   wait till you really see but you know [TS]

01:14:47   what everybody see is not like Santa [TS]

01:14:49   Claus like it doesn't it's not magic [TS]

01:14:52   they're not going to solve every problem [TS]

01:14:53   that everybody wanted to solve in one [TS]

01:14:55   keynote and that's not realistic and [TS]

01:14:58   that you know if you know people say [TS]

01:15:00   that I like I am naive for thinking [TS]

01:15:03   apples not working on this stuff I think [TS]

01:15:05   thinking apples gonna magically solve [TS]

01:15:06   everything in two weeks is naive i think [TS]

01:15:09   we can look at what Apple services are [TS]

01:15:12   today and what they have been these kind [TS]

01:15:15   of things like Siri things like search [TS]

01:15:17   and relevancy and predictive inputs for [TS]

01:15:20   things like proactive on the phones and [TS]

01:15:22   everything we see what an apple news [TS]

01:15:25   like Apple music even like the [TS]

01:15:27   recommendations like we see apples [TS]

01:15:30   current capabilities and we know they're [TS]

01:15:33   past capabilities [TS]

01:15:34   in Big Data AI based web services and we [TS]

01:15:39   see that there you know they can do it [TS]

01:15:42   they can manage to to have a service out [TS]

01:15:45   there and it can work most of the time [TS]

01:15:47   and be up most of the time and be fast [TS]

01:15:50   most of the time but that's that's like [TS]

01:15:54   what was good enough [TS]

01:15:55   five years ago 10 years ago and now that [TS]

01:15:58   the companies who were really good at [TS]

01:16:00   this stuff like Google they have moved [TS]

01:16:03   to a different level of sophistication [TS]

01:16:05   and performance and consistency and we [TS]

01:16:09   haven't seen Apple match that level and [TS]

01:16:12   took them a pretty long time to get to [TS]

01:16:13   the last level so again look at the [TS]

01:16:17   track record and I don't think it's [TS]

01:16:19   unreasonable to be concerned about this [TS]

01:16:21   David shop made a good point the chat [TS]

01:16:24   you know started people like the yellow [TS]

01:16:26   from all these acquisitions often aren't [TS]

01:16:29   compatible with big companies or perhaps [TS]

01:16:31   moving to the Cupertino area so you know [TS]

01:16:35   maybe you're happy in Boston like this [TS]

01:16:37   vocal like you company was you get [TS]

01:16:38   swooped bought up by Apple you're [TS]

01:16:40   expected to move and sometimes people [TS]

01:16:43   just like the chase of a start-up [TS]

01:16:45   sometimes they just don't like being [TS]

01:16:46   always on vacation in california and it [TS]

01:16:49   could be that it has nothing to do with [TS]

01:16:50   apple at all on it's just the the kind [TS]

01:16:53   of mindset or or or geographical [TS]

01:16:55   situation from the from these companies [TS]

01:16:57   that are being bought or it could be [TS]

01:16:59   that there's the their new corporate [TS]

01:17:01   overlords are killing them and they just [TS]

01:17:03   can't handle it anymore [TS]

01:17:05   now what do you think John upcoming [TS]

01:17:08   episode of a another podcast on another [TS]

01:17:10   network i had a long discussion about [TS]

01:17:13   Apple not talking about you know agents [TS]

01:17:18   or services or things like the Google [TS]

01:17:22   home thing or the Amazon echo or Siri or [TS]

01:17:25   court on or any of that stuff but about [TS]

01:17:28   the more mundane aspects of cloud [TS]

01:17:31   computing that it seems apple still has [TS]

01:17:33   yet to master and in particular the [TS]

01:17:35   simple idea of that you have an apple ID [TS]

01:17:39   you were signed into the Apple ID in [TS]

01:17:41   various applications on your phone that [TS]

01:17:43   lets you do things like see your past [TS]

01:17:45   purchases make new purchases [TS]

01:17:47   a download your music before you know [TS]

01:17:50   Apple music or iTunes Match see your [TS]

01:17:53   photos all those things and the other [TS]

01:17:57   mess the that the whole identity and [TS]

01:18:02   login system is both on the web on your [TS]

01:18:04   mac and but especially on your phone [TS]

01:18:06   with the series of dialogues popping up [TS]

01:18:08   and you entering your password having no [TS]

01:18:10   idea why you're being prompted why [TS]

01:18:11   you're being prompted again that is not [TS]

01:18:15   just like level 1 or 1 point 0 or [TS]

01:18:17   whatever that's like level 0 many many [TS]

01:18:21   years ago that Apple still hasn't gotten [TS]

01:18:25   right so I i continue to think I mean I [TS]

01:18:28   think being strong for rages about apple [TS]

01:18:30   and services that just sort of having [TS]

01:18:33   something that looks on the outside just [TS]

01:18:35   like everyone else's service like a [TS]

01:18:36   we've done it [TS]

01:18:37   we have a service for services company [TS]

01:18:39   you have to keep evolving the basic [TS]

01:18:42   parts of your system sort of in the same [TS]

01:18:44   way that you know in the beginning [TS]

01:18:46   google was the search box that you type [TS]

01:18:48   terms into eventually there was [TS]

01:18:50   something to sign into I forget about [TS]

01:18:51   the first group things sign in to us [TS]

01:18:53   maybe with gmail maybe something else [TS]

01:18:54   eventually there was the concept of a [TS]

01:18:56   google account that was a unifying all [TS]

01:18:58   the various cool things together and the [TS]

01:19:01   way Google authentication works and the [TS]

01:19:03   way it's consistent referencing some [TS]

01:19:05   tweets a great Hockenberry have been [TS]

01:19:06   doing recently about the hold [TS]

01:19:08   how many different ways can you log in [TS]

01:19:10   with your Apple ID just on websites [TS]

01:19:12   alone and his speculation that each of [TS]

01:19:13   those talks to a different back-end and [TS]

01:19:15   they're all sort of diverse and it's [TS]

01:19:16   just it's just such a big mess compared [TS]

01:19:19   to how Google's authentication and login [TS]

01:19:23   system has evolved over the years to get [TS]

01:19:25   sort of more sturdy more centralized [TS]

01:19:29   more comforting more reassuring more [TS]

01:19:31   reliable more predictable whereas apples [TS]

01:19:34   has gotten the opposite direction it [TS]

01:19:35   started off as small and humble and has [TS]

01:19:38   become fragmented confusing and broken a [TS]

01:19:40   lot of the time and inexplicable and [TS]

01:19:43   like we're just talking about logging in [TS]

01:19:45   we're not talking about understand my [TS]

01:19:47   natural language query that i'm speaking [TS]

01:19:49   into my phone which seems like it's a [TS]

01:19:50   harder problem but if you neglect the [TS]

01:19:52   fundamentals if you don't but you are [TS]

01:19:55   talking about likely that why these [TS]

01:19:57   people are staying in the company's top [TS]

01:19:58   of this compound path shows as well like [TS]

01:20:00   you know it could be the serial [TS]

01:20:01   entrepreneurs and move on to other [TS]

01:20:02   things but apples and organizations [TS]

01:20:05   never seem to value the type of [TS]

01:20:07   infrastructure work that is necessary to [TS]

01:20:09   be a world-class services organization [TS]

01:20:11   that you you can't have every project do [TS]

01:20:12   everything on its own [TS]

01:20:14   you have to sort of build up a common [TS]

01:20:15   core infrastructure like it has like [TS]

01:20:17   again this is a repeat of shows for many [TS]

01:20:18   years ago but like like it has won the [TS]

01:20:20   US side they had a car OS they develop [TS]

01:20:23   they use it is the underpinning for the [TS]

01:20:25   new mac operating system and eventually [TS]

01:20:26   ended up being the underpinning for the [TS]

01:20:27   phone operating system also for their [TS]

01:20:29   watch operating system also for their [TS]

01:20:31   h.264 hdmi adapter cable for the [TS]

01:20:34   you know whatever happens I won't forget [TS]

01:20:36   anyone as you like [TS]

01:20:38   core technologies cocoa objective-c the [TS]

01:20:40   compiler infrastructure their [TS]

01:20:41   development tools like on on the client [TS]

01:20:44   side of the non-service world they [TS]

01:20:46   understand that it's stupid of every [TS]

01:20:47   product to have its own little thing [TS]

01:20:48   unify shareware possible like it just [TS]

01:20:53   makes more sense and then on the service [TS]

01:20:55   side they haven't quite gotten that down [TS]

01:20:56   to the most basic thing you could [TS]

01:20:57   possibly do with the service which is [TS]

01:20:59   like login and have an application that [TS]

01:21:01   knows that you're logged in it doesn't [TS]

01:21:02   ask you to login repeatedly for no [TS]

01:21:03   reason it doesn't lose your login [TS]

01:21:04   credentials doesn't get confused that [TS]

01:21:06   you don't have bad weather iCloud days [TS]

01:21:07   where things don't seem to be working [TS]

01:21:10   like I don't know how many more people [TS]

01:21:13   get sick of hearing about this and their [TS]

01:21:14   army listing off all the technologies [TS]

01:21:16   that google has had developed over the [TS]

01:21:17   years that are not for a specific [TS]

01:21:19   project that are so that anybody google [TS]

01:21:22   can make a scalable worldwide reliable [TS]

01:21:24   redundant performing network service on [TS]

01:21:28   top of these things that they built in [TS]

01:21:29   this whole section of the company grew [TS]

01:21:30   all they do is make that infrastructure [TS]

01:21:32   better and better revised and replace [TS]

01:21:34   this one of the better version and that [TS]

01:21:36   and then just it it's a rising tide [TS]

01:21:37   lifts all boats and apples just like [TS]

01:21:39   you're checked out and to see with life [TS]

01:21:41   preserver and have it sent to fend for [TS]

01:21:43   yourself even the whole the Syrian [TS]

01:21:44   people touting like they're moving to [TS]

01:21:45   the app Apache was amazed us or [TS]

01:21:47   something or whatever like I get the [TS]

01:21:49   impression that teams like solving a [TS]

01:21:51   problem for themselves like why is there [TS]

01:21:52   not an apple wide solution to anybody [TS]

01:21:54   who wants to write a service like this [TS]

01:21:55   that is infrastructure for the whole [TS]

01:21:57   company why is a product team doing it [TS]

01:21:59   and it's just it seems to me they just [TS]

01:22:01   don't get it and that to me explains [TS]

01:22:03   partly why people who aren't serial [TS]

01:22:05   entrepreneur but you really want to work [TS]

01:22:06   in a company that values that type of [TS]

01:22:07   work would definitely go to work for [TS]

01:22:09   Google or even Amazon Facebook before [TS]

01:22:11   they would go for Apple because those [TS]

01:22:12   companies are so much more fun [TS]

01:22:14   son valuing those server-side and [TS]

01:22:16   operations in data center things worse [TS]

01:22:18   apples like we kind of try to do it [TS]

01:22:20   in-house and we kind of farm stuff out [TS]

01:22:21   to as you're an Amazon but we're not [TS]

01:22:23   really good that stuff we mostly make [TS]

01:22:25   cool devices and that's that's just not [TS]

01:22:27   going to cut a long term regardless of [TS]

01:22:28   whether a is awesome anything I think [TS]

01:22:30   it's not cutting it today and it's just [TS]

01:22:32   not going to cut it even for basic stuff [TS]

01:22:33   like photos which even if you set aside [TS]

01:22:35   all the cool stuff the case he loves [TS]

01:22:37   about google photos just the basics of [TS]

01:22:39   doing photos right and having them in [TS]

01:22:41   the cloud and everything took them so [TS]

01:22:42   long to even get like sort of a passable [TS]

01:22:44   level of having things working and so [TS]

01:22:47   many different tries and I guess you [TS]

01:22:50   know cloudkit is it is an attempt to do [TS]

01:22:52   that type of infrastructure but it's [TS]

01:22:53   like that they're just taking too long [TS]

01:22:55   and moving too slowly everyone else's [TS]

01:22:56   too far ahead of them again repeats of [TS]

01:22:58   stuff I said a lot last week but it's [TS]

01:23:00   it's on my mind a lot because i use a [TS]

01:23:02   lot of apple products and every time i [TS]

01:23:04   think about is that i'm starting to [TS]

01:23:06   think about other aspects of my life [TS]

01:23:07   that i use apple with that I would be [TS]

01:23:10   better off using someone else with down [TS]

01:23:12   to things like Google photos with the kc [TS]

01:23:14   talking about that but you know all the [TS]

01:23:16   way up to [TS]

01:23:16   should i should i stop trying to use [TS]

01:23:18   Syrians google now like I'm not going to [TS]

01:23:20   go out and get an android phone at this [TS]

01:23:21   point but i mean i already used gmail [TS]

01:23:24   from a male I would never use apples [TS]

01:23:25   mail system for a meal for a variety of [TS]

01:23:27   reasons [TS]

01:23:29   apples apples losing on all these fronts [TS]

01:23:31   yeah google photos and I think I'm may [TS]

01:23:34   briefly mentioned this last episode it's [TS]

01:23:36   really rocked my world in a an [TS]

01:23:39   uncomfortable way because it really [TS]

01:23:41   makes me wonder like am I missing out on [TS]

01:23:44   justgiving google everything about [TS]

01:23:47   everything and having that kind of [TS]

01:23:49   intelligent assistant thing form for me [TS]

01:23:52   know it should I be looking at android [TS]

01:23:56   issues that the gmail web you should use [TS]

01:23:58   a gmail web interface because it knows [TS]

01:24:00   when your flights are coming and it puts [TS]

01:24:01   a little thing there and you can [TS]

01:24:02   unsubscribe to list from like little [TS]

01:24:04   buttons on your like its it does smart [TS]

01:24:06   things with your email and gives you a [TS]

01:24:07   little buttons without even having to go [TS]

01:24:08   into them to do and i can put things on [TS]

01:24:11   your calendar based on what's in there [TS]

01:24:12   that may sound annoying and everything [TS]

01:24:14   but it's it's actually really convenient [TS]

01:24:16   google photos showing me like if you're [TS]

01:24:18   willing to give Google in this case all [TS]

01:24:21   of your pictures [TS]

01:24:23   it's stunning how much intelligence they [TS]

01:24:25   can provide you based on that you know [TS]

01:24:28   if I want to search for a picture taken [TS]

01:24:32   on a patio in 2012 i probably could [TS]

01:24:36   search for that and it would probably [TS]

01:24:37   find it pretty quickly [TS]

01:24:39   it's unbelievable the things that can [TS]

01:24:42   put together just in the metadata in my [TS]

01:24:43   pictures and so it's not hard to [TS]

01:24:46   extrapolate well if it's able to get all [TS]

01:24:47   this from my pictures [TS]

01:24:49   what could it do with my email and maybe [TS]

01:24:52   with searches and things and so on the [TS]

01:24:54   one side every ounce of me is like no [TS]

01:24:56   that's a terrible idea you don't want [TS]

01:24:58   google looking at all those things and [TS]

01:24:59   then the opposite side of me thinks it [TS]

01:25:03   is pretty damn convenient is it really [TS]

01:25:05   that big a deal i mean i already have my [TS]

01:25:07   email [TS]

01:25:07   why not take the rest so it's very weird [TS]

01:25:10   what what google photos is done because [TS]

01:25:12   it's really made me start thinking about [TS]

01:25:14   is it worth trading some of that privacy [TS]

01:25:16   and some of that data to get something [TS]

01:25:18   that is actually useful out of it we [TS]

01:25:22   respond to this week by hover and [TS]

01:25:24   everyone's going to this ad read in [TS]

01:25:25   under a minute so here we go over to [TS]

01:25:27   hover com / ATP use the promo code eat [TS]

01:25:31   fresh at checkout to save ten percent [TS]

01:25:32   off your first purchase when you have a [TS]

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01:25:38   perfect domain is ridiculously easy with [TS]

01:25:40   hover hover has no upsells and free who [TS]

01:25:44   is privacy now when all you want to do [TS]

01:25:46   is buy domain name or get an email [TS]

01:25:47   address you shouldn't have to opt-out of [TS]

01:25:49   page after page of add-ons that you [TS]

01:25:51   don't want or need [TS]

01:25:52   they know what's needed they give it to [TS]

01:25:53   you all included it's great so go to [TS]

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01:26:01   to save ten percent off your first [TS]

01:26:03   purchase thanks a lot of hope for [TS]

01:26:04   sponsoring our show [TS]

01:26:08   I was gonna say one other thing that [TS]

01:26:10   came up last week again i feel like i [TS]

01:26:12   mentioned this to markets like I just [TS]

01:26:14   feel that the crushing invisibility of [TS]

01:26:17   podcast because i like we had this [TS]

01:26:18   discussion last week's adp and nobody [TS]

01:26:21   knew or cared like it has to be written [TS]

01:26:22   down somewhere that people can link to [TS]

01:26:24   before anyone cares about it but anyway [TS]

01:26:26   something else that was discussed last [TS]

01:26:28   week that i also saw it written down in [TS]

01:26:29   places i was i was reminiscing about the [TS]

01:26:32   old days when Apple and Google were [TS]

01:26:34   friends and one apple introduced the [TS]

01:26:36   iphone was like we made this amazing [TS]

01:26:38   hardware and this amazing OS on this [TS]

01:26:40   device that's like nothing you've ever [TS]

01:26:41   seen before and it's powered by this [TS]

01:26:43   google services and what a great [TS]

01:26:46   partnership isn't that isn't that great [TS]

01:26:47   we make the OS and hardware Apple to our [TS]

01:26:49   google those services and together you [TS]

01:26:51   have the best of all possible worlds [TS]

01:26:52   because we are the best at making [TS]

01:26:54   hardware we are the best at making [TS]

01:26:55   native client-side applications google [TS]

01:26:57   is the best that map's they're the best [TS]

01:26:59   online services that the best search and [TS]

01:27:01   you anywhere so integrated that we have [TS]

01:27:03   you know our Maps application is [TS]

01:27:04   essentially google map application [TS]

01:27:06   google provides the data we wrote the [TS]

01:27:08   application it's a marriage made in [TS]

01:27:09   heaven and they got divorced and we were [TS]

01:27:11   all sad and I don't know if that's what [TS]

01:27:15   we're moving towards if like if Apple [TS]

01:27:16   could never figure this stuff out and if [TS]

01:27:18   google continues to not be able to make [TS]

01:27:21   the the money and inroads that it wants [TS]

01:27:23   to from Android instead the the money [TS]

01:27:26   from android is going to other people [TS]

01:27:27   like could we end up years and years [TS]

01:27:29   down the road where they come back to [TS]

01:27:31   the table and say you know what we [TS]

01:27:32   should have never broken up I've learned [TS]

01:27:34   that it's really hard to make money [TS]

01:27:35   selling Hardware especially when you [TS]

01:27:36   give away the OS four kind of free and [TS]

01:27:38   in China they make android phones [TS]

01:27:41   without using any of the google services [TS]

01:27:42   and we kind of let this whole thing get [TS]

01:27:44   away from us and apples like we tried to [TS]

01:27:45   make services but it's really hard we're [TS]

01:27:46   not good at it so why don't we just do [TS]

01:27:48   what we reach good at and together we [TS]

01:27:51   can make a great phone platform where [TS]

01:27:53   Siri will be powered by google now and I [TS]

01:27:56   message will be replaced with a decent [TS]

01:27:58   service that doesn't send messages out [TS]

01:27:59   of order has actual new features in it [TS]

01:28:00   but it will be and then decrypted and [TS]

01:28:03   you know like I i want the bullet point [TS]

01:28:06   i want the best of both worlds and for a [TS]

01:28:08   brief time it seemed like that's where [TS]

01:28:09   we're going to get until both Android [TS]

01:28:11   and Apple decided they were both going [TS]

01:28:13   to do everything the other person does [TS]

01:28:14   only better and thus far there their [TS]

01:28:18   strengths remain the same go [TS]

01:28:20   was getting better hardware apples [TS]

01:28:21   getting better at services but if you [TS]

01:28:23   were to let him down again you would say [TS]

01:28:24   who's the best at making hardware and [TS]

01:28:26   operating systems and all that stuff [TS]

01:28:27   still Apple who's the best at making [TS]

01:28:29   services still google so i don't know [TS]

01:28:31   what the long-term solutions but as a [TS]

01:28:32   customer and not someone who really [TS]

01:28:34   cares about either one of those two [TS]

01:28:36   companies ruling the entire world it [TS]

01:28:38   would be nice if we could turn back the [TS]

01:28:40   clock on that relationship [TS]

01:28:41   well the good thing is like I i feel [TS]

01:28:44   like you know if you look at the [TS]

01:28:45   situation on the Mac you ignoring iOS [TS]

01:28:47   for a second look at the mac and the mac [TS]

01:28:49   you have pretty much what you want you [TS]

01:28:53   have tons of people who use macs running [TS]

01:28:56   Mac os10 with all that cool stuff under [TS]

01:28:59   it [TS]

01:28:59   maybe even use iCloud for certain things [TS]

01:29:01   but who use chrome is the browser you [TS]

01:29:03   use gmail for their mail maybe have [TS]

01:29:05   google photos whatever uploader however [TS]

01:29:07   that works installed you know like the [TS]

01:29:09   on the Mac you have that you have that [TS]

01:29:11   world of choice where you can totally be [TS]

01:29:14   bothered to the Google ecosystem and [TS]

01:29:16   still be using a mac with mac OS as your [TS]

01:29:18   computer and have all the google stuff [TS]

01:29:20   running there if you wanted they had [TS]

01:29:22   cereal is tender when I could build your [TS]

01:29:23   place with google now like that's the [TS]

01:29:25   strategy tax type of thing where like [TS]

01:29:26   you've all what if you want a boy system [TS]

01:29:28   that helps you on your Mac you only get [TS]

01:29:30   to choose the Apple and the only reason [TS]

01:29:31   it's almost like it's an accident of [TS]

01:29:32   history but that's not sure though [TS]

01:29:34   because i'm on the Mac you have you have [TS]

01:29:36   like the system ability for like there's [TS]

01:29:38   nothing stopping google from running [TS]

01:29:40   their own demon in the background it's [TS]

01:29:42   losing on the microphone for its own [TS]

01:29:44   commands like it is that is not possible [TS]

01:29:47   it you know in the software environment [TS]

01:29:49   there's going to be os-level integration [TS]

01:29:52   though that series going to be favored [TS]

01:29:53   with and I guess you could say like yeah [TS]

01:29:54   I'm a call all is fair if you get admin [TS]

01:29:57   access and write could bypass system [TS]

01:29:59   integrity protection and hack the finder [TS]

01:30:01   and get your things into the darker like [TS]

01:30:03   whatever like Apple Apple always still [TS]

01:30:05   has an advantage of things like [TS]

01:30:06   spotlight and stuff like that like [TS]

01:30:07   Google tried to google had like a [TS]

01:30:09   spotlight competitor that was trying to [TS]

01:30:10   yeah the public yeah you stuff like that [TS]

01:30:13   it's really hard you know and that's [TS]

01:30:15   something like almost an accident of [TS]

01:30:16   history that the web browsers can [TS]

01:30:18   because web browsers to plain old [TS]

01:30:19   application and so there's no real [TS]

01:30:21   barrier to entry there even you know [TS]

01:30:22   especially since apple still has a way [TS]

01:30:24   for you to pick your default browser on [TS]

01:30:25   the mac [TS]

01:30:26   like iOS but as you get more and more [TS]

01:30:27   integrated into sort of system [TS]

01:30:29   components it becomes harder for any [TS]

01:30:31   third party party no matter how good [TS]

01:30:32   they are to compete with the built-in [TS]

01:30:33   one not only because it's built in but [TS]

01:30:36   also because like they're deep books [TS]

01:30:38   that you can't get a tour you can only [TS]

01:30:40   get out doing nasty hacks that you have [TS]

01:30:42   to maintain and so in practice it's [TS]

01:30:44   really hard you know how bad spotlight [TS]

01:30:46   is and how good Google's thing could [TS]

01:30:47   have been it's been really hard to for [TS]

01:30:50   them to make a better spot light and I [TS]

01:30:51   imagine Siri will be similar it will be [TS]

01:30:53   harder for them to integrate their voice [TS]

01:30:56   other than iOS forget it like you have a [TS]

01:30:57   choice of so many things you can't [TS]

01:30:59   change the default anything and it's [TS]

01:31:01   it's just frustrating but so but I think [TS]

01:31:03   like on the mac i think the the the gap [TS]

01:31:06   therebetween what we have possible now [TS]

01:31:09   and the world you you imagine is like [TS]

01:31:12   the ideal world here that gap is pretty [TS]

01:31:14   small i I think we're pretty sure or [TS]

01:31:16   almost they were pretty much there now [TS]

01:31:18   we're like if google wants to make all [TS]

01:31:20   their stuff for for mac OS 10 and [TS]

01:31:22   integrate their own alternatives in as [TS]

01:31:24   many ways as they possibly can [TS]

01:31:25   there are lots of ways to do that right [TS]

01:31:27   now and that's that's pretty much [TS]

01:31:28   possible now and in many ways it's [TS]

01:31:30   already done things like chrome and [TS]

01:31:32   gmail is like that's pretty much done [TS]

01:31:34   I'm worried about though I'm worried [TS]

01:31:36   about it actually getting worse as the [TS]

01:31:37   next topic we probably won't have time [TS]

01:31:38   to get to in this show but the next [TS]

01:31:39   topic of maybe we get to next week is [TS]

01:31:41   about chromebooks outselling max in [TS]

01:31:42   school [TS]

01:31:43   the problem is the google because you [TS]

01:31:45   know Apple Google both want to do [TS]

01:31:46   everything that everybody does google [TS]

01:31:47   like we should sell laptops and we [TS]

01:31:49   should have you know like it's like we [TS]

01:31:51   don't have a desktop OS what should we [TS]

01:31:52   do well we make chrome OS working for [TS]

01:31:55   android on Chromebooks like we have an [TS]

01:31:57   OS it's not really a desktop OS but [TS]

01:31:59   maybe like that everyone wants to be in [TS]

01:32:01   everything it's it's almost kind of like [TS]

01:32:02   but only by the good graces of google [TS]

01:32:04   google is so nice to you know not [TS]

01:32:06   they're doing it you know the goodness [TS]

01:32:08   of their heart they want her information [TS]

01:32:09   in our eyeballs and everything else [TS]

01:32:11   whatever but they make their [TS]

01:32:12   applications for iOS and for the mac [TS]

01:32:15   apple is not making facetime for android [TS]

01:32:18   you know like it's test on open [TS]

01:32:20   standards that ever you know you can't [TS]

01:32:22   go back to that well like Apple keeps [TS]

01:32:23   itself to its it's tough to its own [TS]

01:32:25   platform when it's feasible where is [TS]

01:32:27   google it's more important to get it's [TS]

01:32:28   thing everywhere so we are blessed with [TS]

01:32:30   these gifts from google but like oh I [TS]

01:32:34   can use you know that there's a native [TS]

01:32:36   or non-native the gmail application for [TS]

01:32:38   iOS [TS]

01:32:38   and there's Google now and there's [TS]

01:32:40   google maps for iOS even though apple [TS]

01:32:42   took the mapping back into their own [TS]

01:32:43   native thing and I worry that someday [TS]

01:32:45   like the cold war will get even colder [TS]

01:32:47   and Google will start behaving even more [TS]

01:32:50   like Apple and will be even more solid [TS]

01:32:51   and then the mac will be like this even [TS]

01:32:54   the things we enjoy now will be pulled [TS]

01:32:56   away for me and I feel like with system [TS]

01:32:57   integrity protection and other things [TS]

01:32:59   it's getting farther and farther away [TS]

01:33:01   from the world where anybody could [TS]

01:33:02   compete with built-in apple stuff all [TS]

01:33:04   you can really compete with his apple [TS]

01:33:05   applications [TS]

01:33:06   yeah but i feel like you know Google and [TS]

01:33:09   Apple are both under different [TS]

01:33:11   leadership then where they were when [TS]

01:33:13   this feud really was at its hottest and [TS]

01:33:17   you know I think you can look at both [TS]

01:33:19   companies now and see that they're [TS]

01:33:21   they're very pragmatic in a lot of the [TS]

01:33:23   decisions and you know I think I don't [TS]

01:33:26   think you're ever gonna see some kind of [TS]

01:33:28   grand reunification where you know they [TS]

01:33:31   were like Tim comes out as I go now [TS]

01:33:32   we're apart we've partnered with google [TS]

01:33:34   to replace like you never going to see [TS]

01:33:36   that but i think what you will see is [TS]

01:33:38   apple kind of like yielding certain [TS]

01:33:40   ground to enable people to do that kind [TS]

01:33:43   of thing if they want to [TS]

01:33:44   so you know i'm not saying they're going [TS]

01:33:46   to suddenly have everything this fall [TS]

01:33:49   we're like oh you can set your default [TS]

01:33:50   mail to gmail you can set your default [TS]

01:33:52   browser chronic I expect we probably [TS]

01:33:55   will get to that type of things slowly [TS]

01:33:58   over time as the market kind of direct [TS]

01:34:01   Apple to do that like you know it that [TS]

01:34:03   there's enough demand now like apple now [TS]

01:34:06   offers their own versions of all these [TS]

01:34:08   different services google is offering [TS]

01:34:10   their versions of all these different OS [TS]

01:34:11   and hardware and stuff so you're right [TS]

01:34:13   there's a lot of duplication here and [TS]

01:34:15   that's great because the people who [TS]

01:34:16   really love google can go buy a [TS]

01:34:18   Chromebook or whatever an android phone [TS]

01:34:20   and get all their Google stuff people [TS]

01:34:21   who really love apple can go buy apple [TS]

01:34:24   hardware an apple software on all Apple [TS]

01:34:25   services most people are somewhere in [TS]

01:34:28   the middle [TS]

01:34:28   most people love some stuff from [TS]

01:34:30   multiple companies and aren't purest of [TS]

01:34:32   either company or any company so the [TS]

01:34:35   more that both companies do to address [TS]

01:34:38   that giant middleware most of the [TS]

01:34:41   customers are the more they both really [TS]

01:34:44   benefit and both companies leadership or [TS]

01:34:46   smart enough to know that and they're [TS]

01:34:48   also i think realizing like you know it [TS]

01:34:50   in the same way like when Steve came [TS]

01:34:52   back and [TS]

01:34:52   that big speech with the book bill gates [TS]

01:34:54   on the big screen and within said like [TS]

01:34:56   you know for Apple to win microsoft [TS]

01:34:58   doesn't have to lose or vice versa [TS]

01:35:00   whatever that was I think you know tim [TS]

01:35:02   cook knows that even though it's pretty [TS]

01:35:05   clear that like he obviously think a lot [TS]

01:35:08   of what Google does distasteful and he's [TS]

01:35:10   right and Google obviously a lot of what [TS]

01:35:12   Apple does is you know arrogant and [TS]

01:35:14   technically inferior and they're right [TS]

01:35:16   but the reality is i think both [TS]

01:35:18   companies in google knows that as a [TS]

01:35:20   services company [TS]

01:35:21   it has to be everywhere it has to be [TS]

01:35:23   where the people are and a lot of people [TS]

01:35:24   are an apple stuff and Apple knows that [TS]

01:35:27   a lot of its customers who buy its [TS]

01:35:29   devices really want to use some google [TS]

01:35:32   stuff on them so they're both gonna you [TS]

01:35:34   know address that in there they're not [TS]

01:35:35   going to let that demand go totally [TS]

01:35:37   unanswered in in the name of like spite [TS]

01:35:41   overrate you know ten-year-old battle [TS]

01:35:43   that neither company's CEO was really [TS]

01:35:46   part of but think of the things that's [TS]

01:35:49   motivating seems to be ordering Apple [TS]

01:35:50   now 22 bestow its gifts unto other [TS]

01:35:54   platforms is the things that are [TS]

01:35:56   services like Apple music visit Apple [TS]

01:35:57   music for android right yeah I'm not [TS]

01:36:00   imagining that is there so because Apple [TS]

01:36:02   music is a service once for products [TS]

01:36:05   that are like services you end up using [TS]

01:36:07   the google rationale well it's a service [TS]

01:36:10   and the most important thing is that we [TS]

01:36:11   have a lot of customers so it has to be [TS]

01:36:13   everywhere right same thing that [TS]

01:36:14   motivated itunes for windows you know [TS]

01:36:16   like it when you're in the service [TS]

01:36:19   mindset for your service products the [TS]

01:36:22   calculus is different and you end up [TS]

01:36:23   putting it everywhere [TS]

01:36:24   ah but the other calculus when it is [TS]

01:36:27   like this is the reason someone would [TS]

01:36:29   buy a mac we know or this is the reason [TS]

01:36:31   to buy a phone we use facetime whatever [TS]

01:36:33   when it's when it's more link to [TS]

01:36:34   hardware software proprietary platform [TS]

01:36:37   for it's not a service where your main [TS]

01:36:39   goal isn't to get everyone in the world [TS]

01:36:40   using it you want people to buy iphones [TS]

01:36:42   you want people to buy max when it's [TS]

01:36:44   like your hardware business then the [TS]

01:36:46   opposite motivation comes in so Apple is [TS]

01:36:48   getting a little bit of the services [TS]

01:36:49   motivation saying if we have services [TS]

01:36:51   products we need to have them more than [TS]

01:36:53   just on our platforms if you want a [TS]

01:36:55   large customer base and again Google [TS]

01:36:57   because they wanted to everything Apple [TS]

01:36:58   does is starting to make hardware [TS]

01:36:59   products and I wonder if they say well [TS]

01:37:01   normally there [TS]

01:37:02   our culture and our motivation that we [TS]

01:37:04   everything we do is go let's get as many [TS]

01:37:05   users as possible because their data is [TS]

01:37:07   the most important thing to us and we [TS]

01:37:08   can sell based on them blah blah but [TS]

01:37:10   when we do these hardware products if we [TS]

01:37:13   actually want to if we can overcome our [TS]

01:37:15   own company culture and motivate these [TS]

01:37:17   hardware products like to say you have [TS]

01:37:19   to make a great product that people want [TS]

01:37:20   to buy and we don't want to sell a lot [TS]

01:37:22   of them you have to think in a different [TS]

01:37:23   mindset thus far google has not been [TS]

01:37:25   able to get into that mindset which is [TS]

01:37:27   why most of their hardware has not sold [TS]

01:37:28   like hotcakes right and thus far mostly [TS]

01:37:31   apples not been able to get into the [TS]

01:37:32   right mindset to be really successful [TS]

01:37:33   services either so as Apple learns [TS]

01:37:38   google continues learn to it will mean [TS]

01:37:40   that they will start doing some of the [TS]

01:37:41   things that I don't like about Apple not [TS]

01:37:43   sharing their stuff so i'm not sure the [TS]

01:37:44   net sharing between them will be better [TS]

01:37:46   i think the only thing that is going to [TS]

01:37:48   make the net sharing between them [TS]

01:37:50   improve is for the power balance to [TS]

01:37:52   shift kind of the same way that the net [TS]

01:37:55   sharing between Apple and Microsoft [TS]

01:37:56   really started to move once the parents [TS]

01:37:58   power balance shifted one sample was [TS]

01:38:00   almost going out of business Microsoft's [TS]

01:38:02   like all Apple I remember them all right [TS]

01:38:04   we'll make office for you here's a [TS]

01:38:06   hundred million dollars will sell shares [TS]

01:38:08   too early and regret it but I think [TS]

01:38:12   someone did the math of what that would [TS]

01:38:13   be worth of they kept it anyway [TS]

01:38:15   yeah if the power bounces way off [TS]

01:38:17   something you can come to the table [TS]

01:38:19   right when I was like the cold war where [TS]

01:38:21   you know everyone wants to show strength [TS]

01:38:23   everyone to do anything and it's not a [TS]

01:38:26   particularly comfortable time but yeah [TS]

01:38:28   you're right in the meantime i will [TS]

01:38:29   continue to use chrome and safari and [TS]

01:38:31   the gmail and it in the web interface [TS]

01:38:34   what else do i use from Google Google [TS]

01:38:36   Drive Google Docs we're using it right [TS]

01:38:38   now for the shots the mark is not [TS]

01:38:40   looking at the google search engine it [TS]

01:38:43   yeah google and apple search engine [TS]

01:38:45   obviously it its a mix but on iOS [TS]

01:38:48   definitely it's much harder to achieve [TS]

01:38:49   that makes and I worry about the mix and [TS]

01:38:51   look forward what i'm saying is i look [TS]

01:38:52   forward to the time that this balance [TS]

01:38:53   shifts in some way and the companies can [TS]

01:38:56   go back can get out from the sort of [TS]

01:38:57   megalomaniacal mindset that the old [TS]

01:39:02   microsoft mindset that not only can we [TS]

01:39:04   do everything because we are the mighty [TS]

01:39:06   insert company name we should do [TS]

01:39:08   everything and we're gonna be awesome at [TS]

01:39:10   it and that's a bad attitude for any [TS]

01:39:11   company Google Apple or anything and it [TS]

01:39:13   mostly leads to bad things but the [TS]

01:39:17   iphone is a rising tide lifts the hell a [TS]

01:39:19   lot of boats and so far apples not [TS]

01:39:21   feeling this thing from that thanks lat [TS]

01:39:24   43 sponsors this week fracture [TS]

01:39:26   freshbooks and hover we will see you [TS]

01:39:28   next week [TS]

01:39:30   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:39:34   mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

01:39:38   it was accidental [TS]

01:39:41   John's research Marco and Casey would [TS]

01:39:45   let him because it was accidentally was [TS]

01:39:50   accidental [TS]

01:39:51   you can find the show know the day EP [TS]

01:39:55   die and if your twitter follow them [TS]

01:40:03   yes eyl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:40:08   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [TS]

01:40:16   Syracuse [TS]

01:40:29   and I feel like Casey and I feel like I [TS]

01:40:33   have to like save you in some way from [TS]

01:40:36   like tripping and falling into android [TS]

01:40:38   like in the same way like member really [TS]

01:40:40   good about two years ago you started [TS]

01:40:42   talking about not wanting a BMW but [TS]

01:40:46   instead wanting one of those like weird [TS]

01:40:47   sporty new Cadillac's that's like all [TS]

01:40:49   straight lines and angles and I like [TS]

01:40:53   look that you're like I was like just [TS]

01:40:54   know that I have to save you back away [TS]

01:40:56   from this clip I'm like I'm like holding [TS]

01:40:58   back your shirt like you know i'm not [TS]

01:40:59   going over this cliff like you're not to [TS]

01:41:02   trust me I you will thank me later [TS]

01:41:03   you're not doing this right [TS]

01:41:05   I feel like this might be that moment [TS]

01:41:06   for tripping and falling into the the [TS]

01:41:09   google pit of insanity here I I know [TS]

01:41:12   you're being silly but only a little bit [TS]

01:41:14   i didn't and I'm i'm not actually [TS]

01:41:18   looking to buy an android phone or [TS]

01:41:19   anything but it is striking to me how me [TS]

01:41:25   but I guess I could say forced i mean i [TS]

01:41:28   don't have to be a google photos user [TS]

01:41:31   but the other picture life is is a [TS]

01:41:33   dumpster fire and ever and ever picks is [TS]

01:41:35   dead and so and i don't particularly [TS]

01:41:38   care for flickr just me you my love it [TS]

01:41:40   that's fine but I backed into google [TS]

01:41:43   photos and then I started to just really [TS]

01:41:46   love what it was providing and its [TS]

01:41:48   really made me like i said earlier kind [TS]

01:41:50   of question am i holding onto Apple [TS]

01:41:54   being the best thing ever because it's [TS]

01:41:55   just what I'm used to and I don't think [TS]

01:41:57   so and I think that if i if i were to go [TS]

01:41:59   android it would be death by a thousand [TS]

01:42:02   very very deep and very wide papercut [TS]

01:42:04   spite but nevertheless it's made me [TS]

01:42:06   think and then there was that great [TS]

01:42:07   episode of connected this week we're [TS]

01:42:10   federico got himself an android phone [TS]

01:42:13   and had positive things to say and I [TS]

01:42:15   think his experience it was probably [TS]

01:42:20   what I mine would be in that you know [TS]

01:42:23   there's a lot here to like but it's not [TS]

01:42:26   enough to sway me but man it's it's [TS]

01:42:30   stunned me how much I've just like [TS]

01:42:33   subconsciously been thinking man this is [TS]

01:42:36   really convenient having them in all of [TS]

01:42:38   giving them as photos now granted it's [TS]

01:42:40   tied to my ID that probably has [TS]

01:42:42   everything about [TS]

01:42:42   for done on the internet ever but all of [TS]

01:42:45   knowingly giving them as my photos and [TS]

01:42:47   the stuff that they can put together is [TS]

01:42:49   just stunning [TS]

01:42:50   no I mean like I think like what you're [TS]

01:42:54   doing now which is like using Apple [TS]

01:42:57   hardware and os is but using selectively [TS]

01:42:59   the google things that you like best on [TS]

01:43:01   them that is generally like the the best [TS]

01:43:05   combo for most people I think yeah i [TS]

01:43:06   agree but even with photos though don't [TS]

01:43:09   you feel the pain of iOS integration [TS]

01:43:10   like the one of the main reasons i'm [TS]

01:43:12   sticking with Apple photos is well part [TS]

01:43:14   of it is I'm actually hoping they're [TS]

01:43:15   gonna get on the ball and start [TS]

01:43:17   integrating some of these features like [TS]

01:43:18   the rumors say but the other thing is [TS]

01:43:19   like it's integrated with your phone and [TS]

01:43:21   the native photos application has the [TS]

01:43:22   stuff and I don't maybe I think there's [TS]

01:43:24   a bigger barrier than there really is to [TS]

01:43:25   like what if I just don't use the Apple [TS]

01:43:28   photos application does the photo [TS]

01:43:30   picture only show you only Apple photos [TS]

01:43:32   from the thing or did good [TS]

01:43:33   yes the the way I think the problem is [TS]

01:43:36   my mental model for a it for better or [TS]

01:43:38   worse is that the pictures that are on [TS]

01:43:41   my phone in like the photos stock photos [TS]

01:43:45   app those are the pictures that were [TS]

01:43:47   generated on that phone or have been [TS]

01:43:50   beamed to that phone via airdrop or [TS]

01:43:52   Wi-Fi from the big camera something like [TS]

01:43:54   that but it's not all your photos [TS]

01:43:55   correct when to me something else [TS]

01:43:59   outside of the stock photos app is all [TS]

01:44:02   of my photos and it was picture life and [TS]

01:44:05   now it's google photos now I'm not [TS]

01:44:06   saying that's right i'm not saying that [TS]

01:44:07   that's how you would treat it but that's [TS]

01:44:09   the way I like to treat it but do you [TS]

01:44:10   have sheriff's I guess you have with the [TS]

01:44:12   extension that you have a share sheet [TS]

01:44:13   like say you say you want to tweet [TS]

01:44:15   something you want to tweet and it's a [TS]

01:44:16   picture from like three years ago that's [TS]

01:44:17   in you that's in your all my photos [TS]

01:44:19   collection when you tap the little [TS]

01:44:20   camera icon in your twitter application [TS]

01:44:23   of choice doesn't bring up a photo [TS]

01:44:25   picture and you have the option to [TS]

01:44:26   picking from your google photos that you [TS]

01:44:27   only get to pick from the phone things i [TS]

01:44:29   think only the phone things but my [TS]

01:44:31   workflow yes so on tweet but i can only [TS]

01:44:34   choose from library but my workflow [TS]

01:44:38   would have been if i were to do [TS]

01:44:40   something like that guy in the photo [TS]

01:44:42   again find the photo on google photos [TS]

01:44:43   download it onto my phone and then take [TS]

01:44:47   it from there and [TS]

01:44:48   I mean I wanted to work both ways like I [TS]

01:44:49   said it's rather a real or perceived [TS]

01:44:51   barrier to like the fact that Apple's [TS]

01:44:54   photos are integrated into iOS in the [TS]

01:44:57   most convenient possible way and all [TS]

01:44:59   third-party things are slightly less [TS]

01:45:01   convenient or they have to think about [TS]

01:45:03   more or whatever and that's another area [TS]

01:45:04   where eventually like Marco said it [TS]

01:45:05   could be that you know the sort of the [TS]

01:45:07   date on which comes in and then they [TS]

01:45:09   start allowing you to pick [TS]

01:45:11   hey what do you use for your photos and [TS]

01:45:13   just has to be conformed to this [TS]

01:45:14   particular you know interface or API or [TS]

01:45:16   whatever and then when you say pick [TS]

01:45:19   photos we won't just show you your [TS]

01:45:21   collection of quote-unquote Apple photo [TS]

01:45:22   same thing with contact same thing with [TS]

01:45:24   everything else that context is [TS]

01:45:25   different because Apple actually gives [TS]

01:45:26   you access to the underlying data from [TS]

01:45:27   any application so you can use different [TS]

01:45:29   calendars stuff anyway that what I'm [TS]

01:45:31   saying is i'm sticking with the Apple [TS]

01:45:33   apps and a lot a lot of cases not [TS]

01:45:35   because i think that the best because i [TS]

01:45:36   would i would like to try google photos [TS]

01:45:38   but I know that I can't try google [TS]

01:45:39   photos without having a split brain [TS]

01:45:41   situation where now i have two [TS]

01:45:42   collections of photos to manage i'm not [TS]

01:45:44   going to do that so i just have the one [TS]

01:45:45   collection and you know I maybe i would [TS]

01:45:49   upload them as I can ever done backup if [TS]

01:45:51   I'm are i think i'm still paying for [TS]

01:45:52   like Tara by the google storage for [TS]

01:45:54   various reasons but yeah I'm I it's a [TS]

01:45:57   barrier it's a barrier to me tryin what [TS]

01:45:59   is almost certainly a product that i [TS]

01:46:01   would enjoy more than what i'm using and [TS]

01:46:03   also have to say a lack of a really cool [TS]

01:46:05   native application like photos is a [TS]

01:46:06   barrier and the photos drives me up a [TS]

01:46:08   wall but there's no equivalent to that [TS]

01:46:10   fool photos as far as I'm aware when we [TS]

01:46:12   will go down well what are you looking [TS]

01:46:14   for because there's absolutely a native [TS]

01:46:16   app but but it may not do the sorts of [TS]

01:46:18   things that you wanted to I mean like [TS]

01:46:19   like like the photos application like [TS]

01:46:22   with all the adjustments and all the [TS]

01:46:23   like it's not their fancy but it's it's [TS]

01:46:25   a native application rather than a weird [TS]

01:46:26   web interface and it has all sorts of [TS]

01:46:27   you know almost reading and printing you [TS]

01:46:31   know booklets and doing to all the stuff [TS]

01:46:33   that like iphoto use doing that photo is [TS]

01:46:35   still sort of does [TS]

01:46:36   yes so it does a lot but not all of that [TS]

01:46:38   so it is native and I'm sure knowing [TS]

01:46:41   that's given that it's google i'm sure [TS]

01:46:42   there's web views that I'm just not [TS]

01:46:44   realizing but it doesn't feel like [TS]

01:46:46   they're webviews it feels [TS]

01:46:47   honest-to-goodness native you can do [TS]

01:46:50   some modifications but here again that's [TS]

01:46:53   not something I typically do on my phone [TS]

01:46:55   even the Photos app so that that's not [TS]

01:46:59   an itch I need to scratch [TS]

01:47:00   I'm talking about them [TS]

01:47:01   where the mac app not that I was that oh [TS]

01:47:03   I'm sorry [TS]

01:47:04   yeah on the on the desktop you're [TS]

01:47:06   absolutely right it's all web [TS]

01:47:08   yeah I thought you were talking about [TS]

01:47:09   iOS know that that's what we're doing [TS]

01:47:11   the photos we looking on the five-game a [TS]

01:47:12   kilo of photos and that's how I sort [TS]

01:47:14   through them to pick up the phone i got [TS]

01:47:15   my gosh calendar and arranging things [TS]

01:47:17   and and I guess also photostream and [TS]

01:47:19   this is sort of a family inertia and [TS]

01:47:20   that we finally got everything set up on [TS]

01:47:22   photostream so now when we you know post [TS]

01:47:24   picture everyone can see it and it's so [TS]

01:47:25   much better than every other system [TS]

01:47:27   we've tried pretty recently that to get [TS]

01:47:28   pictures of my grandkids to grandparents [TS]

01:47:30   this is the best system because we just [TS]

01:47:33   do a thing and that thing pops up and [TS]

01:47:35   they see the thing and so much easier [TS]

01:47:37   than sending URLs or knowing when they [TS]

01:47:39   need to go there whatever like and again [TS]

01:47:42   if we just got them onto the google [TS]

01:47:43   system that can do the same thing but [TS]

01:47:44   it's like well everyone's always already [TS]

01:47:45   set up with their iOS devices that like [TS]

01:47:47   its platform inertia and lock in keeping [TS]

01:47:49   me away from superior applications [TS]

01:47:51   things are working sort of as designed [TS]

01:47:53   for Apple but i'm a little bitter about [TS]

01:47:55   it [TS]

01:47:56   yeah i think the problem is there [TS]

01:47:58   shouldn't be a problem but the [TS]

01:48:00   difference between you and I is a couple [TS]

01:48:02   of things one idea the file system on my [TS]

01:48:06   actually it's sitting on the synology [TS]

01:48:08   but effectively on the imac IV the file [TS]

01:48:10   system is the canonical representation [TS]

01:48:11   of my photos i don't use photos app on [TS]

01:48:14   the desktop i actually really don't like [TS]

01:48:17   it very much at all [TS]

01:48:18   I and so to me google photos is just a [TS]

01:48:22   portable search tool and view into that [TS]

01:48:27   repository and that works really well [TS]

01:48:30   for me and I've always treated my true [TS]

01:48:34   my one true repository as segregated [TS]

01:48:37   like i was saying earlier from the from [TS]

01:48:38   the phone and that just works really [TS]

01:48:41   well for me [TS]

01:48:42   additionally you do a lot more stuff [TS]

01:48:44   with your photos than I tend to I'll [TS]

01:48:46   share them on social media I have a [TS]

01:48:48   shared album for pictures that we like [TS]

01:48:50   Declan that we've shared with friends [TS]

01:48:52   and family like you guys but I don't do [TS]

01:48:55   a whole lot of heavy photo editing i [TS]

01:48:57   think was Marco or somebody taught me [TS]

01:48:59   how to do a white balance correction for [TS]

01:49:01   when I take pictures at night that's [TS]

01:49:02   like a big new advancement I think I [TS]

01:49:04   didn't teach you i just said you should [TS]

01:49:06   look into this it makes a big difference [TS]

01:49:07   and it's not that hard [TS]

01:49:09   yeah okay that's what that was like my [TS]

01:49:11   first are taking decent photos or photos [TS]

01:49:14   with decent camera [TS]

01:49:14   is like in 2006-2007 like I look back on [TS]

01:49:18   those photos and they're all orange [TS]

01:49:19   because i didn't know that dick white [TS]

01:49:21   balance and I eventually learned white [TS]

01:49:24   balance out that makes a huge difference [TS]

01:49:26   and I didn't know that for a very long [TS]

01:49:28   time so it's best to try to like jump [TS]

01:49:30   you up the queue of learning how to do [TS]

01:49:32   photos click here which I appreciate it [TS]

01:49:34   three years [TS]

01:49:35   just look at what exactly's that it did [TS]

01:49:38   absolutely did but yeah but the right [TS]

01:49:40   bring that up to say that that's about [TS]

01:49:41   as heavy and edit as i usually get we [TS]

01:49:44   don't do the yearly calendar thing we [TS]

01:49:46   probably shouldn't i'm jealous of your [TS]

01:49:47   girlie calendars or like the underscores [TS]

01:49:49   were showing us we're up there this past [TS]

01:49:51   weekend they do i'm merely like photo [TS]

01:49:54   books and we should do that but host [TS]

01:49:56   asking a was asking David and Lauren you [TS]

01:50:00   know how long does that take you and [TS]

01:50:01   they said well about a week week and a [TS]

01:50:03   half every single year and I don't know [TS]

01:50:06   how they find the time for it but i wish [TS]

01:50:08   i had it so i guess they make the time [TS]

01:50:10   for it but I'm I i don't use photos [TS]

01:50:14   heavily I find that for me photos are [TS]

01:50:17   just I want to have them to help jog my [TS]

01:50:20   memory [TS]

01:50:21   I want to be able to get to a relatively [TS]

01:50:23   arbitrary photo very quickly so all that [TS]

01:50:26   restaurant we went to that when we were [TS]

01:50:27   going when we are on our trip to Paris [TS]

01:50:29   I'd like a picture that well I can just [TS]

01:50:31   type in paris in google photos and maybe [TS]

01:50:34   you can do this in regular photos to is [TS]

01:50:35   in fact I think you can but i could type [TS]

01:50:37   in paris in google photos all only with [TS]

01:50:40   geo tags and only if you actually happen [TS]

01:50:42   to be in Paris like these are all like [TS]

01:50:45   rap wants to catch up and if they're [TS]

01:50:46   actually you know always remember the [TS]

01:50:47   true they should show hey the next [TS]

01:50:49   version of photos knows what the hell's [TS]

01:50:51   in your picture and can do something and [TS]

01:50:52   then it's just a competition of who does [TS]

01:50:53   it better [TS]

01:50:54   spoiler alert it's gonna be google but [TS]

01:50:55   at least just having that feature is [TS]

01:50:57   better than not having it at all right [TS]

01:50:59   so here's a great example so earlier [TS]

01:51:02   today I forget why but I wanted to see [TS]

01:51:04   if I had a picture of the Rotunda uva so [TS]

01:51:07   uva is is the universal Virginia it's [TS]

01:51:10   where Aaron went to school it's about an [TS]

01:51:12   hour west of where we live and they're [TS]

01:51:15   like most famous building is a building [TS]

01:51:18   called the Rotunda which is modeled [TS]

01:51:20   after the him beyond or Parthenon i [TS]

01:51:24   always get it wrong i'm so sorry please [TS]

01:51:25   don't email Pentagon's you model it [TS]

01:51:27   the Pentagon totally it's modeled after [TS]

01:51:29   one of those so it's like this old old [TS]

01:51:31   your kind of Greek looking structure [TS]

01:51:33   with the columns and all that anyway so [TS]

01:51:36   i did a search for rotunda and i have [TS]

01:51:38   not knowingly tag these pictures in any [TS]

01:51:42   way it doesn't out nevermind to test a [TS]

01:51:45   pretty returned on this picture just [TS]

01:51:46   getting but this but this is a terrible [TS]

01:51:49   example on but so the file name in this [TS]

01:51:52   case did tag it and my bad but i have [TS]

01:51:55   seen other situations just let's pretend [TS]

01:51:58   that's not the case [TS]

01:51:59   I've seen other situations when I [TS]

01:52:01   haven't given google any information [TS]

01:52:04   about the photo but it has figured out [TS]

01:52:07   oh this is the Rotunda well as an [TS]

01:52:10   example so they're the pictures of the [TS]

01:52:12   Pantheon Parthenon always get it wrong [TS]

01:52:13   we were there in in Italy I believe God [TS]

01:52:17   federal Federico's gonna be so mad [TS]

01:52:19   anyway point is we were at the [TS]

01:52:20   inspiration for the Rotunda and i just [TS]

01:52:22   did a search in google photos for honda [TS]

01:52:23   and one of the things that comes up our [TS]

01:52:26   pictures of this old old old ancient [TS]

01:52:28   building which looks just like the uva [TS]

01:52:30   rotunda [TS]

01:52:31   so Google has said presumably hey what [TS]

01:52:34   is the ETA return to look like oh this [TS]

01:52:37   looks like that [TS]

01:52:38   let's bubble these up as well and you [TS]

01:52:40   could take this either way right you [TS]

01:52:41   could either say well this is a this is [TS]

01:52:43   a false positive or you could take that [TS]

01:52:45   as well this is an ancillary picture [TS]

01:52:47   that you may have wanted someone to give [TS]

01:52:48   it to you anyway and just that machine [TS]

01:52:50   learning which we heard a thousand times [TS]

01:52:52   during google i/o it really does [TS]

01:52:54   freaking work and in the fact that i can [TS]

01:52:56   just search the word rotondo and get not [TS]

01:52:59   only pictures that we've taken in front [TS]

01:53:00   of the return of the pictures we've [TS]

01:53:01   taken from this or this other building [TS]

01:53:04   I just find that to be amazing and it [TS]

01:53:06   makes it so so convenient that rather [TS]

01:53:11   than having to think to myself all right [TS]

01:53:13   when we in Paris or when were we in Rome [TS]

01:53:16   or what have you had that was 2012 shoot [TS]

01:53:19   what month was it i think was like no it [TS]

01:53:21   was August all right now I got to go [TS]

01:53:22   through every picture in August to [TS]

01:53:25   figure out where where was that where [TS]

01:53:27   when it was that we went to Rome and now [TS]

01:53:28   i gotta search for ok which day was it [TS]

01:53:30   in this week that we were there now [TS]

01:53:32   granted another approach could be what I [TS]

01:53:34   suspect you do John which is to catalog [TS]

01:53:36   in in tag and do a lot of this stuff by [TS]

01:53:39   hand but I don't have the patience for [TS]

01:53:41   and so i love that that google photos [TS]

01:53:42   can just figure it out for me that's why [TS]

01:53:45   I always what I don't want to do all [TS]

01:53:46   that work i would like a reliable way to [TS]

01:53:48   do it like everyone picasa came out with [TS]

01:53:49   a face detection like oh that's awesome [TS]

01:53:51   but all they don't have an apple store i [TS]

01:53:53   wish they did an apple came out with the [TS]

01:53:55   features like yeah finally you caught up [TS]

01:53:56   and then what face detection brought was [TS]

01:53:58   a fan spinning cpu grinding featured [TS]

01:54:02   iphoto that nevertheless failed to [TS]

01:54:04   accomplish the task that I wanted for [TS]

01:54:06   which is basically find me all the [TS]

01:54:08   pictures of a particular person because [TS]

01:54:10   you have to Train it and it would miss a [TS]

01:54:12   bunch and bottom line is my manual [TS]

01:54:14   tagging of who's in that picture was [TS]

01:54:17   better and faster and did not destroy my [TS]

01:54:20   computer during the process so it's like [TS]

01:54:22   you brought the feature but your [TS]

01:54:24   implementation is bad enough that manual [TS]

01:54:25   tagging still wins [TS]

01:54:27   whereas with the google thing there's no [TS]

01:54:29   way I'm going to take everything like [TS]

01:54:30   you know I'm gonna take all the hugs and [TS]

01:54:33   all likely the nighttime things and put [TS]

01:54:36   geotags I'm I you know pictures that [TS]

01:54:38   don't have tags because I from cameras [TS]

01:54:40   it said they don't have a gps and not [TS]

01:54:42   going to do that if Google can do it [TS]

01:54:43   it's not as if it's competing with a [TS]

01:54:45   better manual tagging alternative is [TS]

01:54:46   competing with there's no way in hell [TS]

01:54:48   you could do this manually and so you're [TS]

01:54:51   not comparing it to essentially you know [TS]

01:54:52   99 percent accuracy you comparing it to [TS]

01:54:54   nothing you got nothing that when i'm [TS]

01:54:56   looking for pictures like you know [TS]

01:54:58   where's that picture of my television so [TS]

01:55:01   I could see like what arrangement of AV [TS]

01:55:03   equipment i had three years ago I just [TS]

01:55:06   have to scroll I said the scroll with my [TS]

01:55:08   balls and like look at the date and see [TS]

01:55:10   like the houses around last year and [TS]

01:55:11   then just sort of scroll through the [TS]

01:55:13   pictures and look for something like a [TS]

01:55:14   TV sometimes you miss it if I could just [TS]

01:55:16   talk TV and you know TV 2013 google [TS]

01:55:21   photos would do it [TS]

01:55:23   photos on a Mac will not yeah i just [TS]

01:55:26   typed television 2013 and i'm looking at [TS]

01:55:29   pictures I took of RTV amount of the [TS]

01:55:31   course of course you are anyway I'm i [TS]

01:55:33   like face recognition i fully expect [TS]

01:55:36   apple to add this feature two photos I [TS]

01:55:39   just hope they do better this time than [TS]

01:55:41   last time [TS]

01:55:42   well this whole thing is how does how [TS]

01:55:43   does photos get better at figuring out [TS]

01:55:47   what's in the photo because it does it [TS]

01:55:50   can't really aggregate what it learns [TS]

01:55:52   over good Jillian's of photos [TS]

01:55:54   it can just do a best guess based on [TS]

01:55:56   what's been programmed into the photos [TS]

01:55:58   and there has to be a server-side [TS]

01:55:59   component there as well right and then [TS]

01:56:01   it at that point how are they any better [TS]

01:56:03   than google and if you put on your [TS]

01:56:05   tinfoil hat i don't but i don't consider [TS]

01:56:08   it bad or like a good apples got all my [TS]

01:56:10   photos anyway where do you think they're [TS]

01:56:11   all stored that current Apple servers i [TS]

01:56:13   don't i assume they're not even [TS]

01:56:14   encrypted they're just like I'm i'm [TS]

01:56:16   signing up to say here Apple take my [TS]

01:56:18   photos and start the minor cloud [TS]

01:56:19   infrastructure now Apple you have all my [TS]

01:56:21   photos and I'm trusting you won't do [TS]

01:56:22   anything to various with them right [TS]

01:56:24   that's it that's the deal so I that's [TS]

01:56:25   not hang up for me at all like oh I [TS]

01:56:27   don't want to get my photos of google [TS]

01:56:29   know i'll give them to google that the [TS]

01:56:30   reasons i don't have everything I just [TS]

01:56:32   said like iOS integration and sharing [TS]

01:56:34   photos with family and all this stuff [TS]

01:56:35   yes like here's a great example so i [TS]

01:56:38   typed in Declan listened in I've told [TS]

01:56:40   google you know it it discovered that [TS]

01:56:42   there is someone who looks like this in [TS]

01:56:44   a lot of pictures and I told told google [TS]

01:56:46   ok thats Declan and so I typed in [TS]

01:56:49   decklist comma beach common 2015 and it [TS]

01:56:52   came up with our beach trip from last [TS]

01:56:54   year but interestingly also came up with [TS]

01:56:56   a shot of Declan sitting at a pumpkin [TS]

01:56:59   patch where the ground was [TS]

01:57:01   indistinguishable from sand at a glance [TS]

01:57:04   so it has looked at this picture and [TS]

01:57:07   said hmm that looks to me to be a beach [TS]

01:57:09   that looks to me like that's Declan in [TS]

01:57:11   there and it is one of the results that [TS]

01:57:13   came back and here again like I said [TS]

01:57:14   earlier you could treat that as a false [TS]

01:57:16   positive but I think it's great because [TS]

01:57:18   it shows that there is some amount of [TS]

01:57:21   like reasoning going into tagging that [TS]

01:57:24   picture as being at the beach and it's [TS]

01:57:28   good stuff so it makes you wonder you [TS]

01:57:29   know hey would it be cool if it just [TS]

01:57:31   search my email and said hey you know [TS]

01:57:33   you better leave now for that flight [TS]

01:57:35   that's coming up and to be fair what is [TS]

01:57:37   I forget what they call it but apples [TS]

01:57:38   doing that well right yeah so you know [TS]

01:57:41   it like when i get in the car on the way [TS]

01:57:43   home [TS]

01:57:44   it'll say it sees the phone will see [TS]

01:57:47   that I've connected to a car bluetooth [TS]