The Accidental Tech Podcast

169: My Fingers Are Still Moving


00:00:00   I don't think we let ourselves just be [TS]

00:00:01   idiots often now don't that we don't I [TS]

00:00:04   feel like that's our core competency so [TS]

00:00:10   i was using my iphone today I was [TS]

00:00:12   sitting at i would guess thirty percent [TS]

00:00:15   battery life i am aware that you can [TS]

00:00:17   turn on battery percentage i think that [TS]

00:00:20   is the mark of a lunatic because all [TS]

00:00:23   that doesn't stretch me out when it's on [TS]

00:00:25   I'd rather not know anyway so I was [TS]

00:00:27   sitting it i would guess about a third [TS]

00:00:29   battery life and I go to record a video [TS]

00:00:32   of Declan we were walking around outside [TS]

00:00:34   and as i'm recording the video they like [TS]

00:00:37   I it's not that I was framing and I'm [TS]

00:00:39   actively recording the video all the [TS]

00:00:41   sudden phone turns off [TS]

00:00:42   mm okay that in and of itself is [TS]

00:00:44   unfortunately common but that was weird [TS]

00:00:47   but ok so i go to turn the phone back on [TS]

00:00:48   wait that's common well common enough [TS]

00:00:51   that we're it's I don't want to say [TS]

00:00:55   functional high ground but it felt like [TS]

00:00:56   a functional high ground sort of sort of [TS]

00:00:58   occurrence right like oh that was weird [TS]

00:00:59   but I'm sure once it reboots itself [TS]

00:01:02   everything will be fine okay your [TS]

00:01:04   windows recency is showing like that [TS]

00:01:06   they're not the headset is not [TS]

00:01:07   acceptable behavior like the head that [TS]

00:01:09   is not normal yeah well do before the [TS]

00:01:12   show we were just talking about how you [TS]

00:01:13   rebooting your your imac fixed [TS]

00:01:15   everything but that's neither here nor [TS]

00:01:16   there [TS]

00:01:17   yeah I didn't say that was right either [TS]

00:01:18   so I go to start the phone back up and [TS]

00:01:22   it tells me no i won't because your [TS]

00:01:25   battery's dead [TS]

00:01:26   what you know what I'm talking about [TS]

00:01:27   like the i will not start until you plug [TS]

00:01:29   it in [TS]

00:01:30   yeah ID a little like better the red [TS]

00:01:32   line and black screen yeah yeah so I'm [TS]

00:01:34   like that's weird i was just a [TS]

00:01:35   30-percent so I do the like hold both [TS]

00:01:38   buttons until it forced restarts itself [TS]

00:01:40   dance and starts back up and i'm back [TS]

00:01:43   thirty percent ok that was really weird [TS]

00:01:45   but I'll roll with it and then I go to [TS]

00:01:49   record a video again same exact thing [TS]

00:01:51   happened [TS]

00:01:51   mm except this time it didn't want to [TS]

00:01:53   turn itself back on your batteries toast [TS]

00:01:55   I've heard of this a lot of people about [TS]

00:01:57   his problem with many different models [TS]

00:01:58   of phone iphone in the past that the [TS]

00:02:01   exactly same symptoms you get your [TS]

00:02:02   battery down to something that's below [TS]

00:02:04   half but not really really low and then [TS]

00:02:07   it's just like nope no battery for you [TS]

00:02:10   and the same thing like sometimes it'll [TS]

00:02:11   come [TS]

00:02:11   like oh here i am again twenty percent [TS]

00:02:13   you got to take that in that's that is a [TS]

00:02:15   very common symptom and i don't know i [TS]

00:02:17   don't know what it is it could just be a [TS]

00:02:18   bad battery just can't maintain the [TS]

00:02:19   voltage and once it gets below a certain [TS]

00:02:21   level the phone just like that so much [TS]

00:02:23   for that but then you bring it back and [TS]

00:02:24   it's like I can maintain the voltage now [TS]

00:02:26   I'm not really i can you just gotta [TS]

00:02:27   bring it [TS]

00:02:28   don't bother like like some people John [TS]

00:02:30   Roderick who live with this for like a [TS]

00:02:32   year or more and accept it as just like [TS]

00:02:34   this darn phone is like that's like [TS]

00:02:37   Marco set that is that's not the way [TS]

00:02:39   it's supposed to work you have to bring [TS]

00:02:40   that in tell them the symptoms I'm sure [TS]

00:02:42   they've heard a million times before [TS]

00:02:43   because this is a common symptom there's [TS]

00:02:45   one exception though that is also almost [TS]

00:02:48   exactly the same behavior you get during [TS]

00:02:49   hot or cold thermal shutdown [TS]

00:02:51   yeah obviously temperature stuff and I'm [TS]

00:02:53   assuming it's spring it's like it's not [TS]

00:02:54   too hot not too cold I i assume you [TS]

00:02:56   hadn't left in the Sun on the dashboard [TS]

00:02:58   of your car before using it now we're [TS]

00:03:00   just going for a walk about a mile and a [TS]

00:03:02   half walk it was in my jeans pocket [TS]

00:03:03   there was no i mean it's it's humid out [TS]

00:03:08   because it's been raining for the last [TS]

00:03:09   year but uh but no there was nothing [TS]

00:03:12   environmental that should have cost it [TS]

00:03:14   what I've done is I've left it plugged [TS]

00:03:16   in and have been planned to leave it [TS]

00:03:18   plugged in all night just to see I [TS]

00:03:20   wouldn't this is before we had this [TS]

00:03:22   conversation but I thought I well maybe [TS]

00:03:24   it's just like not calibrated or [TS]

00:03:25   something like that so i'll just i'll [TS]

00:03:27   leave it plugged in all night I mean I [TS]

00:03:29   always leave it plugged in all night [TS]

00:03:30   long but i'll just i'll be really [TS]

00:03:31   diligent about leaving a plugged in and [TS]

00:03:33   we'll see if that for change that but it [TS]

00:03:35   sounds like I'm making a trip to the [TS]

00:03:36   genius bar we typical typical windows [TS]

00:03:39   blame yourself just defragment hurt no [TS]

00:03:41   update your windows update virus [TS]

00:03:43   definitions David your fault it's [TS]

00:03:46   totally your fault but aren't you happy [TS]

00:03:48   now like everyone if I had something [TS]

00:03:49   does happen especially on a device that [TS]

00:03:50   I've had for a while but like oh yes new [TS]

00:03:52   battery know that your battery's getting [TS]

00:03:55   old anyway how many cycles have been [TS]

00:03:56   through I any fresh new battery assuming [TS]

00:03:59   you're still under warranty [TS]

00:04:00   well I mean it's a it's a success so [TS]

00:04:02   yeah I'm still under warranty but it was [TS]

00:04:04   that also means i gotta go to the genius [TS]

00:04:06   bar I've got to do the backup dance I've [TS]

00:04:08   got to convince them that you know this [TS]

00:04:10   is an actual issue that isn't my fault [TS]

00:04:13   etc so i guess i'm sure they make sure [TS]

00:04:15   they are well versed in this exact [TS]

00:04:17   problem and have a procedure and you're [TS]

00:04:18   not the first person to tell them it'll [TS]

00:04:20   be fine [TS]

00:04:21   I will say though it really went when I [TS]

00:04:24   first saw this doing thermal shutdown it [TS]

00:04:26   was on tips phone this past winter when [TS]

00:04:29   she was trying to take videos of our kid [TS]

00:04:31   playing in the snow in like didn't like [TS]

00:04:34   the high twenties early thirties [TS]

00:04:35   Fahrenheit [TS]

00:04:36   yeah like and the phone like after after [TS]

00:04:38   a couple seconds shooting video just [TS]

00:04:40   kept shutting down on her and like and [TS]

00:04:41   we thought we'd broken and I was like oh [TS]

00:04:43   we're bringing in and then like we want [TS]

00:04:45   you came inside like it the problem [TS]

00:04:47   could never be reproduced it at room [TS]

00:04:49   temperature and we were like oh and I [TS]

00:04:51   looked up and I figured out that's [TS]

00:04:52   actually expected behavior that i guess [TS]

00:04:55   all those videos you see an apple [TS]

00:04:57   commercials like the shot an iphone [TS]

00:04:58   where people are like on ski vacations I [TS]

00:05:00   guess they're taking really short shots [TS]

00:05:02   I let you have to keep the phone you can [TS]

00:05:04   keep the phone in the pocket that's [TS]

00:05:05   essentially outdoors like your pockets [TS]

00:05:07   are you know if you were to if your [TS]

00:05:09   pocket cold in other words you have to [TS]

00:05:11   have it in a pocket that sort of the [TS]

00:05:12   inside of the body heat part of it [TS]

00:05:14   because that's all the really it's not [TS]

00:05:15   as if your phone freezes solid within 20 [TS]

00:05:17   seconds is already frozen when it's in [TS]

00:05:18   your pocket and you take it out and just [TS]

00:05:20   goes that you know the little extra bit [TS]

00:05:22   so you really have to either keep it [TS]

00:05:24   inside inside your glove or something [TS]

00:05:26   close to your body so that the phone [TS]

00:05:27   stays at more or less body at room [TS]

00:05:29   temperature then you get a long time [TS]

00:05:31   before it freezes solid into a brick of [TS]

00:05:33   energy lithium-ion battery are you going [TS]

00:05:38   to look at those little hand warmer [TS]

00:05:39   things a little shaky packets but the [TS]

00:05:41   candles enough that they give off heat [TS]

00:05:43   you could someone should so a case like [TS]

00:05:44   that you already got the big lump of the [TS]

00:05:46   battery case that by the heat case for [TS]

00:05:48   the winter and that then it will get hot [TS]

00:05:49   thermal shutdown [TS]

00:05:50   well it doesn't get that those things [TS]

00:05:52   are you so the the hand warmer things [TS]

00:05:54   are the things that people who live in [TS]

00:05:56   ridiculous climates use right so you [TS]

00:05:58   guys use that all the time [TS]

00:05:59   skiers use it all the best as I don't [TS]

00:06:01   know someone in the tavern remember this [TS]

00:06:03   before the age of the chemical packets [TS]

00:06:05   that you put in your pocket that you [TS]

00:06:06   know you started reaction they will get [TS]

00:06:08   warm not hot being a warm like that [TS]

00:06:09   they're not bring your hands because [TS]

00:06:11   they have lawsuits they had these things [TS]

00:06:13   that were kinda like metal clamshell [TS]

00:06:15   things that had inside them essentially [TS]

00:06:18   burning embers like not open flames but [TS]

00:06:21   burning ember stick to give off heat [TS]

00:06:23   sounds like that the most dangerous [TS]

00:06:24   thing you could possibly imagine [TS]

00:06:26   and that was the old tech and that was [TS]

00:06:29   much more so that the new stuff is a [TS]

00:06:30   considerably a safer and more civilized [TS]

00:06:34   what was it like was it airtight seal [TS]

00:06:36   down there or how do i my recollection [TS]

00:06:39   was that was like a clamshell look more [TS]

00:06:40   kind of like a compact or a snuffbox or [TS]

00:06:42   something and that do the little burning [TS]

00:06:44   ember things you get out by opening and [TS]

00:06:46   closing it that way but you use it close [TS]

00:06:47   and just had a metal outside that would [TS]

00:06:49   radiate the heat weird as it sounds kind [TS]

00:06:51   of crazy like contraption from your drug [TS]

00:06:53   days John yeah my drug days right [TS]

00:06:56   this is the beginning of the add our [TS]

00:06:58   first sponsor this week is fracture [TS]

00:07:00   fracture prints photos in vivid color [TS]

00:07:03   directly onto glass these colors pop [TS]

00:07:06   like you won't believe and it comes in a [TS]

00:07:07   solid backing it mean it's kind of like [TS]

00:07:09   this thin foam board behind the glass [TS]

00:07:11   layer so it's very very strong but [TS]

00:07:14   you're also very lightweight you don't [TS]

00:07:16   have to worry about this giant pane of [TS]

00:07:17   glass hang on your wall like pulling the [TS]

00:07:20   wall hanger alec is they're very light [TS]

00:07:22   for their size and the front of the [TS]

00:07:23   majors this in piece of glass with the [TS]

00:07:26   photo print on the back so it shines [TS]

00:07:27   through and it HS looks fantastic [TS]

00:07:30   this is the best way to get photos [TS]

00:07:31   printed and hang them up or put on a [TS]

00:07:33   desk or sending the people for gifts or [TS]

00:07:35   whatever else i have these all over my [TS]

00:07:37   office friends use them other podcasts I [TS]

00:07:40   know use themselves because they wanted [TS]

00:07:42   their shows first and they found him out [TS]

00:07:43   and they're just so good and we always [TS]

00:07:45   get compliments on our fracture Prince [TS]

00:07:47   whenever people are at our house [TS]

00:07:49   I mean I probably I have something like [TS]

00:07:51   see seven of them around the office [TS]

00:07:53   right now it's a there they're [TS]

00:07:55   everywhere and i said i've said probably [TS]

00:07:56   five or six more as gifts they're just [TS]

00:07:58   great [TS]

00:07:59   go to fracture Mediacom to see for [TS]

00:08:01   yourself the prices are very reasonable [TS]

00:08:02   on these and you can use code ATP 10 to [TS]

00:08:07   get an additional ten percent off their [TS]

00:08:08   regular prices really if you have some [TS]

00:08:10   photos to print and honestly you should [TS]

00:08:12   be printing photos because these days [TS]

00:08:14   you know you post photos on facebook or [TS]

00:08:16   instagram if you can find on Instagram [TS]

00:08:17   anymore that crazy icon but you post [TS]

00:08:19   photos on Facebook or Instagram or [TS]

00:08:20   whatever else and you see them for like [TS]

00:08:22   a day and then they're just buried in [TS]

00:08:24   the feed so with fracture you can you [TS]

00:08:27   can have those photos live longer you [TS]

00:08:28   and you can give them as gifts you can [TS]

00:08:30   have them kind of like you know elevated [TS]

00:08:32   to to a more prominent place in your in [TS]

00:08:35   your house in your vision in your life [TS]

00:08:37   I just a great way to remember great [TS]

00:08:39   photos [TS]

00:08:39   and together with gifts as well so check [TS]

00:08:42   it out today go to fracture me.com is [TS]

00:08:45   run by fine people in gainesville [TS]

00:08:46   florida everything's hand check the [TS]

00:08:48   quality by real people [TS]

00:08:49   so you always get good stuff I've never [TS]

00:08:51   had one break i've never heard of one [TS]

00:08:53   breaking during shipping [TS]

00:08:54   they're really good no worries here i [TS]

00:08:56   use them recommend them they're awesome [TS]

00:08:57   fracture me.com code ATP 10 to save ten [TS]

00:09:00   percent thanks a lot [TS]

00:09:02   this is the end of the end anonymous is [TS]

00:09:04   written in and said can you please [TS]

00:09:06   address the business model behind [TS]

00:09:07   Tesla's offering to unlock and that's in [TS]

00:09:10   scare quotes physical features already [TS]

00:09:12   in the car like battery capacity [TS]

00:09:14   otherwise lockdown it seems worrisome [TS]

00:09:15   that in in-app purchase strategies [TS]

00:09:18   spilling over into hardware not just [TS]

00:09:20   software updates like autopilot what [TS]

00:09:22   this is about is the Tesla Model ass the [TS]

00:09:25   70 kilowatt-hour I couldn't remember [TS]

00:09:28   what the 70 stood for [TS]

00:09:29   yes anyway uh for the 70 you can pay [TS]

00:09:32   3250 dollars to unlock its another five [TS]

00:09:37   kilowatt hours so you can pay 3250 [TS]

00:09:41   dollars for someone to flipping left an [TS]

00:09:44   electronic switch and that I don't know [TS]

00:09:48   about that man that just seems a little [TS]

00:09:49   weird to me like on the one side they [TS]

00:09:51   are indeed making the car better so [TS]

00:09:54   shouldn't you pay for that but on the [TS]

00:09:56   other side they make it better in so [TS]

00:09:57   many other ways and you don't have to [TS]

00:09:58   pay for that so why is this something [TS]

00:10:00   that costs money [TS]

00:10:01   the triggerman Twitter about this was [TS]

00:10:03   like in that purchase where they should [TS]

00:10:05   be the app that has the code for the [TS]

00:10:07   features that are currently locked and [TS]

00:10:08   by doing that purchase all they do is [TS]

00:10:10   flip a bit that enable that feature [TS]

00:10:12   another word you got you just like when [TS]

00:10:14   you get the car the car comes with extra [TS]

00:10:15   battery but it's not enable you get this [TS]

00:10:18   app the app comes with this extra [TS]

00:10:19   functionality but it's not enabled that [TS]

00:10:21   was mostly me being snarky because of [TS]

00:10:23   course the difference is that it doesn't [TS]

00:10:26   cost money to manufacture the additional [TS]

00:10:28   functionality like copying bits [TS]

00:10:29   essentially free whereas someone paid to [TS]

00:10:33   manufacture and assemble the parts of [TS]

00:10:36   your car that they're giving to you in a [TS]

00:10:40   disabled State so you actually are [TS]

00:10:42   receiving like that's that's part of the [TS]

00:10:45   the package is a physical good it costs [TS]

00:10:48   every time they do that they were [TS]

00:10:49   however it is they put that extra bit of [TS]

00:10:51   battery and that that's a real physical [TS]

00:10:54   item it's not just the simple copying of [TS]

00:10:56   bits [TS]

00:10:57   now i don't know if this makes us good [TS]

00:10:59   from a business standpoint in terms that [TS]

00:11:01   you feel better or worse about Teslas a [TS]

00:11:03   company in light of this maybe you feel [TS]

00:11:05   better we select your car magically got [TS]

00:11:06   better but maybe feel worse than that [TS]

00:11:07   you understand you paid to manufacture [TS]

00:11:11   assemble this this stuff and then you [TS]

00:11:13   give it to me but you intentionally turn [TS]

00:11:15   it off it's like you're making my car [TS]

00:11:16   works on purpose and then ransoming at [TS]

00:11:18   last little bit unless i'm totally [TS]

00:11:21   misunderstanding what they're actually [TS]

00:11:22   doing with this big flipping but if it [TS]

00:11:25   is actually a physical thing that they [TS]

00:11:27   are paying to create and then giving to [TS]

00:11:30   you in a shutoff state to try to ransom [TS]

00:11:32   more money from you later it doesn't [TS]

00:11:33   give me a particularly good feeling [TS]

00:11:35   about the company of the car it's [TS]

00:11:38   definitely a weird thing and yeah i [TS]

00:11:41   agree that it's probably not a way to [TS]

00:11:43   win customer satisfaction people will [TS]

00:11:46   feel ripped off by that like people who [TS]

00:11:50   own the 70d and then learn that actually [TS]

00:11:53   you have 75 kilowatt capacity physically [TS]

00:11:56   but we only ship to 70 and then you if [TS]

00:11:59   you want you can pay three thousand [TS]

00:12:01   dollars to unlock it [TS]

00:12:03   I can totally see why the people who own [TS]

00:12:05   those seventies are like that's that's [TS]

00:12:07   kinda that's kind of BSE that's a little [TS]

00:12:09   bit BSE but it you know Tesla it's it's [TS]

00:12:13   a weird company a weird stage in its [TS]

00:12:15   life doing weird things and most of [TS]

00:12:18   those things are our I think overall for [TS]

00:12:20   the better with the model s keep in mind [TS]

00:12:22   the Model S is sold with a pretty [TS]

00:12:25   healthy profit margin from what I [TS]

00:12:27   understand and the main reason is to [TS]

00:12:29   basically fund the company's further [TS]

00:12:31   development do you think that the model [TS]

00:12:32   3 because like if you look at what's [TS]

00:12:34   included in the model s and the starting [TS]

00:12:37   price of whatever it is like 70,000 [TS]

00:12:40   whatever whatever starting president [TS]

00:12:41   Model S's and then you look at the model [TS]

00:12:44   3 but the starting price of 35,000 and [TS]

00:12:47   we already know some of the things that [TS]

00:12:48   will be included it won't be included in [TS]

00:12:50   that and it seems kind of crazy if you [TS]

00:12:53   try to estimate roughly how big of a [TS]

00:12:55   batteries there in the model 3 roughly a [TS]

00:12:56   bigger battery is there you know and [TS]

00:12:58   the model s you know how can they [TS]

00:13:00   possibly cut the cost of the car in half [TS]

00:13:03   and sell the model 3 with so much of [TS]

00:13:06   what was also in the model s and the [TS]

00:13:09   answer is that their costs aren't being [TS]

00:13:11   cut in half just the Model S has a nice [TS]

00:13:14   fat profit margin and the model 3 won't [TS]

00:13:17   so what you're paying for the model s [TS]

00:13:18   today is not just like cost of the [TS]

00:13:21   components plus twenty percent you know [TS]

00:13:23   you're paying a premium for it because [TS]

00:13:25   it is a brand-new product you're paying [TS]

00:13:27   kinda like the early adopter premium on [TS]

00:13:30   it it has high profits now in the long [TS]

00:13:32   run it will have lower profit margins in [TS]

00:13:35   all likelihood this competition will [TS]

00:13:36   come in and push prices down and you [TS]

00:13:38   know as things mature than the cost will [TS]

00:13:40   also go down but the role of the Model S [TS]

00:13:43   is basically to generate lots of profit [TS]

00:13:45   for Tesla to make the model 3 so from [TS]

00:13:47   that perspective i can see why they do [TS]

00:13:49   things like this because you know that [TS]

00:13:52   that additional battery that you're [TS]

00:13:53   hauling around additional five kilowatt [TS]

00:13:55   hour battery did not cost Tesla $3,000 [TS]

00:13:59   to put in there or even if it did you [TS]

00:14:01   already paid for it like they sold you a [TS]

00:14:03   car with that battery in it for the [TS]

00:14:05   price that you paid you know what I mean [TS]

00:14:06   like that was like that one of the chat [TS]

00:14:08   room is saying it's the type of thing [TS]

00:14:09   where they stopped manufacturing the 70 [TS]

00:14:11   kilowatt but you bought a 70 yellow want [TS]

00:14:13   to like well we don't have anymore 70 [TS]

00:14:15   lots will give you 75 but flip the [TS]

00:14:18   switch so that when you get it it looks [TS]

00:14:19   like the 70 that you order like that was [TS]

00:14:21   that was the arrangement you are 270 [TS]

00:14:23   comes with 70 kilowatts we give you a [TS]

00:14:25   car that comes with 17 what everyone [TS]

00:14:26   should be happy but again from a from a [TS]

00:14:30   feel good about the company perspective [TS]

00:14:31   should they should do what Apple does in [TS]

00:14:32   those cases where like if you have a [TS]

00:14:33   really old Mac and something goes wrong [TS]

00:14:35   with it and you're still within warranty [TS]

00:14:36   or whatever our apple just feels bad [TS]

00:14:38   they're like well we can't we can't fix [TS]

00:14:40   this for you we can't replace the part [TS]

00:14:42   because we don't make that part anymore [TS]

00:14:43   and we can't give you a new like you [TS]

00:14:46   know laptop of this kind would anyone [TS]

00:14:47   make that laptop but here you go here's [TS]

00:14:49   the current model that laptop what [TS]

00:14:51   happens all the time [TS]

00:14:52   an apple and every time it happens it's [TS]

00:14:55   like a you know a miracle so the people [TS]

00:14:57   get it like you're getting me not only [TS]

00:14:59   give me a new laptop [TS]

00:15:00   you're giving me a new better laptop [TS]

00:15:02   because you don't make my old crap you [TS]

00:15:03   want anymore and you're not charging any [TS]

00:15:05   money for it because it's just like this [TS]

00:15:06   this laptop is a total write-off it's [TS]

00:15:08   have too many hardware fairies we can't [TS]

00:15:09   get a part that makes people love apple [TS]

00:15:11   so if Tesla that's on the terms that [TS]

00:15:13   would make people feel bad who bought a [TS]

00:15:14   17 just got a 70 if you wanna 70d after [TS]

00:15:17   they stopped manufacturing them and they [TS]

00:15:18   gave you a 75 and I can I know you order [TS]

00:15:21   70 but here's seventy-five you would [TS]

00:15:23   love Tesla you'd be like this is awesome [TS]

00:15:24   and what 70 people be met because they [TS]

00:15:26   have their car for a year or whatever [TS]

00:15:27   like it's not only be mad but it [TS]

00:15:29   wouldn't be for legendary what is but I [TS]

00:15:32   know do other mac users get mad like hey [TS]

00:15:34   that's no fair i had to pay for that [TS]

00:15:35   computer new you bought an old crappy [TS]

00:15:37   computer in a broken you got the new one [TS]

00:15:38   for free and anyone who begrudge people [TS]

00:15:40   there [TS]

00:15:41   their good fortune involving you know [TS]

00:15:43   that the time they chose to purchase at [TS]

00:15:45   a time there think brokers just [TS]

00:15:46   ridiculous [TS]

00:15:47   so anyway I don't think this is as you [TS]

00:15:50   know tomorrow like this this is a car [TS]

00:15:52   that you know it costs a lot of money [TS]

00:15:54   has a big margin the people who are [TS]

00:15:55   buying it are probably not caring that [TS]

00:15:57   much about three thousand dollars here [TS]

00:15:59   and there because this is a very [TS]

00:16:00   expensive car so in the grand scheme of [TS]

00:16:02   things maybe doesn't hurt them but they [TS]

00:16:04   sort of uh they've missed an opportunity [TS]

00:16:06   to become even more beloved using you [TS]

00:16:10   know the apple style thinks I'm just [TS]

00:16:11   like you know surprising delight or [TS]

00:16:12   whatever not just in your application [TS]

00:16:13   but also in your policies is one of the [TS]

00:16:15   reason people like the genius bar i know [TS]

00:16:17   people have bad experiences with it as [TS]

00:16:19   well but to go there have a person who [TS]

00:16:21   you know will take care of your needs [TS]

00:16:23   and if there's any sort of issue to have [TS]

00:16:26   the people go that that's like kind of a [TS]

00:16:27   a a luxury goods experience where if you [TS]

00:16:30   pay if you really really massively [TS]

00:16:31   overpay for something [TS]

00:16:32   the one good thing is like if you have [TS]

00:16:34   any problem with it like a return [TS]

00:16:35   anytime or given you an hour will clean [TS]

00:16:37   it up for you for free or whatever even [TS]

00:16:40   though you don't massively overpay for [TS]

00:16:41   apple stuff we just a little bit over [TS]

00:16:43   pay when you go on with your broken [TS]

00:16:45   computer and they can't replace it [TS]

00:16:47   because it's too old and they give you a [TS]

00:16:48   brand-new model that's just awesome [TS]

00:16:50   that's like your your loyal for at least [TS]

00:16:52   another three years before you mad at [TS]

00:16:53   them again [TS]

00:16:54   yeah and also keep in mind also like you [TS]

00:16:57   know even though all the hype right now [TS]

00:16:59   is about the model 3 for the next like [TS]

00:17:02   two years possibly more the Model S is [TS]

00:17:05   still the only test that you can buy or [TS]

00:17:07   the X i guess but nobody wants that [TS]

00:17:09   sorry x people so like the the entry [TS]

00:17:13   price whatever they can make the [TS]

00:17:14   cheapest model s that is the entry price [TS]

00:17:17   for Tesla for the next ex years you know [TS]

00:17:20   23 whatever whatever ends up being [TS]

00:17:21   before anybody can just go order model 3 [TS]

00:17:24   and [TS]

00:17:25   I delivered you know in six weeks [TS]

00:17:26   whatever so the lower they can make that [TS]

00:17:29   price the more people they can get into [TS]

00:17:31   being Tesla customers at all [TS]

00:17:33   they also though want to preserve those [TS]

00:17:35   profit margins on the higher spec models [TS]

00:17:36   because that's funding the rest of the [TS]

00:17:39   company so it's important for them to [TS]

00:17:41   get to somehow get the price down enough [TS]

00:17:45   so they can get a few more people in [TS]

00:17:47   basically without cannibalizing their [TS]

00:17:49   higher end sales so they have to do [TS]

00:17:51   tricks like this where it's like well if [TS]

00:17:54   we sold it just as a 75 before and it [TS]

00:17:57   was like 75 for that one or 85 for that [TS]

00:18:00   for the big one up that was too small [TS]

00:18:03   difference we would lose many sales [TS]

00:18:04   maybe they figured so they would they [TS]

00:18:05   made that 170 even though technically [TS]

00:18:07   had 75 then there are something like [TS]

00:18:09   that you know and and then when they [TS]

00:18:11   raised the other one from 85 to 90 and [TS]

00:18:13   they raised the other one from 7075 [TS]

00:18:14   because now you're just keeping the same [TS]

00:18:16   difference is there's all sorts of [TS]

00:18:18   reasons why they could have done this [TS]

00:18:19   that make total sense and even though [TS]

00:18:22   they might annoy some of the customers [TS]

00:18:24   who don't think things should work that [TS]

00:18:26   way you know it might be better than the [TS]

00:18:27   alternative for the company as a whole [TS]

00:18:29   you know this isn't unprecedented either [TS]

00:18:32   like when i first heard about the story [TS]

00:18:34   few days back my first thought was no [TS]

00:18:35   it's a little gross but as I was [TS]

00:18:38   thinking about it while you guys are [TS]

00:18:39   talking no i paid almost a thousand [TS]

00:18:42   dollars for a cobb accessport which is a [TS]

00:18:46   thing I refer to it as a chip [TS]

00:18:48   colloquially but really it's just a [TS]

00:18:50   software programmer that you plug into [TS]

00:18:53   the obd2 port and it will reflash the [TS]

00:18:59   computer and and give you a little bit [TS]

00:19:01   more power and makes car little bit [TS]

00:19:03   faster and then I was taking myself well [TS]

00:19:05   but that's a little bit different [TS]

00:19:06   because that's third party and so yeah [TS]

00:19:09   makes sense that a third party is going [TS]

00:19:10   to want to sell you something to make [TS]

00:19:12   your car better but I got thinking about [TS]

00:19:14   a little more and it occurred to me [TS]

00:19:15   BMW cells what they call the performance [TS]

00:19:17   power kit which to my understanding does [TS]

00:19:20   have a little bit of hardware involved [TS]

00:19:23   but the majority of the changes are [TS]

00:19:27   simply reflash just like my cop does so [TS]

00:19:30   this is a first-party thing and again [TS]

00:19:32   it's not entirely apples to apples [TS]

00:19:34   because there is a little bit of [TS]

00:19:35   hardware but it's a first-party thing [TS]

00:19:38   that i'm looking on BMWs website right [TS]

00:19:39   now and it's 2107 dollars so this is not [TS]

00:19:44   that different in my eyes [TS]

00:19:48   then what BMW is already doing and [TS]

00:19:50   presumably other manufacturers as well [TS]

00:19:51   but I wonder can you pirate a battery [TS]

00:19:54   hey yeah FML good pirate the bed [TS]

00:19:58   flipping but never live in the BMW case [TS]

00:19:59   may be part of the money that you're [TS]

00:20:01   paying is to offset increase warranty [TS]

00:20:03   repairs for your engine that is [TS]

00:20:04   operating slightly outside the intended [TS]

00:20:06   you know boundaries of whatever you know [TS]

00:20:10   depending on what it's changing about [TS]

00:20:12   the engine that could be impacting a [TS]

00:20:14   reliability or other issues like it so [TS]

00:20:17   the price is basically everyone paid [TS]

00:20:19   this price as a blanket insurance policy [TS]

00:20:21   for the slightly increase odds that [TS]

00:20:23   you're going to have your valvetrain [TS]

00:20:24   blow up or whatever i could be but i [TS]

00:20:27   mean i would hope and assume that these [TS]

00:20:31   engines are built in such a way that [TS]

00:20:33   they're tolerances give them enough [TS]

00:20:35   leeway that a first-party solution would [TS]

00:20:39   not bump up against any of that now by [TS]

00:20:41   solution might but there's a reason they [TS]

00:20:43   sell them where they said they sell that [TS]

00:20:45   they tried but the car manufacturer [TS]

00:20:46   trying to do or sell their engines tuned [TS]

00:20:48   in a way that balances performance with [TS]

00:20:52   reliability because and economy and [TS]

00:20:54   emissions right so this is the whole [TS]

00:20:57   bunch of things in the mix there and [TS]

00:21:00   they're going for something that makes [TS]

00:21:03   you know the worst thing you want to [TS]

00:21:04   happen as you set these cars out there [TS]

00:21:06   with particular balance of things and it [TS]

00:21:08   turns out that all the men of coming [TS]

00:21:10   back in like six years with something [TS]

00:21:11   really expensive wrong with the end like [TS]

00:21:13   you don't want that to happen but if [TS]

00:21:15   people say well I know you can squeeze [TS]

00:21:17   more horsepower this thing if only you [TS]

00:21:18   increase the boost on the turbos or you [TS]

00:21:21   know did change the the timing or you [TS]

00:21:24   know whatever you want to do one thing [TS]

00:21:25   and it might have a slight detrimental [TS]

00:21:28   impact on reliability but if people are [TS]

00:21:30   going to give us the money will do that [TS]

00:21:33   then i guess like a big pool to pay for [TS]

00:21:34   the one guy out of every hundred was [TS]

00:21:36   engine dies a premature death due to [TS]

00:21:39   this to anything but you everyone has [TS]

00:21:41   the same engine as long as the best part [TS]

00:21:42   of your engine that you're not being [TS]

00:21:43   allowed to use it's more like I I think [TS]

00:21:46   of it as a like buying applecare+ or [TS]

00:21:49   whatever [TS]

00:21:51   fair enough i was gonna say it's like 80 [TS]

00:21:54   minutes CDR services 74 minutes standard [TS]

00:21:56   but as you kept going it ended up being [TS]

00:21:58   nothing like that commits right Adam [TS]

00:22:02   Bushman rights in to say getting to love [TS]

00:22:05   something like add bumpers by just by [TS]

00:22:08   being exposed to it frequently that's [TS]

00:22:09   called the is that Mary or miri exposure [TS]

00:22:13   effect i'm shirley mispronouncing that [TS]

00:22:15   but Emmy re-exposure effect in okc you [TS]

00:22:18   are the chief pronounced her on the show [TS]

00:22:20   now great chief summarizer and chief [TS]

00:22:22   announcer I thought I'd like merely by [TS]

00:22:24   being exploited exposed it's like the [TS]

00:22:26   worst name the effect ever the mere [TS]

00:22:28   exposure effect immediately by the last [TS]

00:22:30   anyway will link the link the wikipedia [TS]

00:22:33   article which obviously not i was [TS]

00:22:34   actually read but you can read it [TS]

00:22:37   indeed you walk into our homework for us [TS]

00:22:39   that's how the show works it's [TS]

00:22:40   accidental I you know that's that one of [TS]

00:22:43   the jobs of wikipedia is every [TS]

00:22:44   phenomenon that you think has a name [TS]

00:22:46   probably does that that's probably a [TS]

00:22:48   phenomenon Davey idea turns out there's [TS]

00:22:52   a name for it already [TS]

00:22:53   what is the name of that phenomenon I [TS]

00:22:55   bet nobody knows except Merlin I [TS]

00:22:57   guarantee you he knows doesn't he just [TS]

00:22:59   looks like we could be like everyone [TS]

00:23:00   else [TS]

00:23:01   this is the beginning of the add our [TS]

00:23:03   second sponsor tonight is freshbooks [TS]

00:23:06   freshbooks created cloud accounting [TS]

00:23:07   software and invoicing software so [TS]

00:23:09   ridiculously simple to use that over 5 [TS]

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00:23:13   officially feeling the freshbooks effect [TS]

00:23:15   including many of our friends by the way [TS]

00:23:16   this means a lot more smiling and way [TS]

00:23:19   less stress when it comes to dealing [TS]

00:23:20   with administration paperwork invoicing [TS]

00:23:23   and getting paid now invoicing is where [TS]

00:23:25   freshbooks started and it is so good you [TS]

00:23:28   can use fresh to create and send [TS]

00:23:30   invoices this takes a grand total of [TS]

00:23:32   little about 30 seconds [TS]

00:23:34   there's no formula is no formatting know [TS]

00:23:35   like error-prone manual calculations or [TS]

00:23:37   anything just perfectly crafted invoices [TS]

00:23:39   every time and your clients can pay you [TS]

00:23:42   online they support all sorts of payment [TS]

00:23:44   methods and gateways [TS]

00:23:46   and this means that it's easier for your [TS]

00:23:48   clients to pay which means you get paid [TS]

00:23:50   faster they actually have numbers on [TS]

00:23:51   this you get hit an average of a few [TS]

00:23:53   days faster by doing doing online [TS]

00:23:54   payments of course if your clients [TS]

00:23:56   forget whether that's in quotes or not [TS]

00:23:59   to pay your invoice you don't have to [TS]

00:24:01   like awkwardly email them like hey yeah [TS]

00:24:03   did you see my invoice is freshbooks not [TS]

00:24:06   only logs activity of one thing's [TS]

00:24:08   reviewed so you can see if they open it [TS]

00:24:09   up and when but also you can configure [TS]

00:24:11   free to automatically send automated [TS]

00:24:14   reminders about late payment or due [TS]

00:24:16   dates coming up and you see that way you [TS]

00:24:18   can avoid having our conversations [TS]

00:24:19   yourself with your clients [TS]

00:24:21   you can also if you invoice people in [TS]

00:24:23   person if you do some kind of service in [TS]

00:24:25   person [TS]

00:24:26   they also recently launched a mobile [TS]

00:24:27   card reader will help you take credit [TS]

00:24:30   cards in person right there with [TS]

00:24:32   freshbooks right for your invoices for [TS]

00:24:33   in-person work and of course there's all [TS]

00:24:35   sorts of other tools built in like you [TS]

00:24:36   can track your expenses so you're doing [TS]

00:24:39   consulting clients you need to invoice [TS]

00:24:40   them for things or whatever the case any [TS]

00:24:42   kind of expenses you have a track even [TS]

00:24:43   expenses that are related to freshbooks [TS]

00:24:46   itself like you can connect your bank [TS]

00:24:47   account and have a track all your [TS]

00:24:49   expenses and generate your tax form [TS]

00:24:51   stuff the end of the year it's amazing [TS]

00:24:52   what fresh can do it and you know of [TS]

00:24:55   course in addition to receipts and [TS]

00:24:56   everything you can use their mobile app [TS]

00:24:57   to take pictures of receipts on the go [TS]

00:24:59   for expense tracking there are so many [TS]

00:25:01   features here isn't all fit in one and I [TS]

00:25:02   gotta go over things differently chat [TS]

00:25:03   but tell you what there's a lot here and [TS]

00:25:06   there's an API for developers if you [TS]

00:25:07   want to integrate this into your own [TS]

00:25:08   stuff or customize it [TS]

00:25:10   there's so much freshbooks check it out [TS]

00:25:12   today you can try for free for 30 days [TS]

00:25:14   go to freshbooks calm / ATP please [TS]

00:25:17   interaction tech podcast and he had you [TS]

00:25:19   hear about us section just in case that [TS]

00:25:21   you forget to use that code please [TS]

00:25:23   remember to put our name in the head to [TS]

00:25:24   hear about us section so once again free [TS]

00:25:26   trial 30 days go to fresh books.com / [TS]

00:25:29   ATP thanks a lot [TS]

00:25:30   this is the end of the ad so the new [TS]

00:25:33   york times on the on the seventh which [TS]

00:25:37   was this past saturday as we record [TS]

00:25:39   released an article podcast surge but [TS]

00:25:43   producers fear Apple isn't listening and [TS]

00:25:46   this article it had some problems the [TS]

00:25:52   quick summary from your summarizer in [TS]

00:25:54   chief is that Apple supposedly had [TS]

00:25:58   a handful of big-name podcasters into [TS]

00:26:03   their campus to talk to apple about what [TS]

00:26:06   they want from Apple to make their jobs [TS]

00:26:09   easier and the way this new york times [TS]

00:26:11   article was written was basically we [TS]

00:26:14   want all the data about all the things [TS]

00:26:15   and apple may or may not be giving that [TS]

00:26:19   to us and that's mildly alarming this is [TS]

00:26:22   created quite obviously quite a hub in [TS]

00:26:26   our little circle because most of the [TS]

00:26:29   things that the New York Times articles [TS]

00:26:31   talking about about big data about [TS]

00:26:32   getting access to who listen to what [TS]

00:26:34   when and when I say Who I mean you know [TS]

00:26:36   how old is this personal gender are they [TS]

00:26:38   where do they live how much do they make [TS]

00:26:40   what they like what they not like [TS]

00:26:41   etcetera and when they listen to they [TS]

00:26:43   must know whole thing today only listen [TS]

00:26:44   to part of it they listen to the [TS]

00:26:45   beginning skip the middle did they skip [TS]

00:26:46   the ads to do not skip the ad so they [TS]

00:26:48   like the answer they not like the ads [TS]

00:26:49   tell us everything [TS]

00:26:52   well for those of us who care about our [TS]

00:26:54   listeners we don't want that we don't we [TS]

00:26:56   don't need that we don't want that and [TS]

00:26:58   we hope we never get in the position [TS]

00:26:59   that we do need that and so this article [TS]

00:27:03   a lot of problems and Marco you wrote a [TS]

00:27:04   really really nice post about it I I [TS]

00:27:08   don't really know what to say that that [TS]

00:27:10   had that hasn't already been said in [TS]

00:27:11   either marcos post or or or Federico's [TS]

00:27:15   but I'm sure there's something to be [TS]

00:27:17   said so Marco take it away [TS]

00:27:18   I mean the good thing is all the other [TS]

00:27:19   stuff that had to be said jason and mike [TS]

00:27:22   said upgrade this week so i suggest you [TS]

00:27:24   listen to the bedstead but if you really [TS]

00:27:27   if you want to stick around here as well [TS]

00:27:28   listen to us as well there's a few parts [TS]

00:27:31   here I mean so you mentioned the [TS]

00:27:33   data-gathering part that the leading [TS]

00:27:34   podcasters allegedly wanted by the way [TS]

00:27:36   this whole article is stating a bunch of [TS]

00:27:39   things as fact like this is definitely [TS]

00:27:43   how Apple does things now this meeting [TS]

00:27:45   definitely happened [TS]

00:27:46   it definitely happened like this with [TS]

00:27:48   these people in it and so far I have not [TS]

00:27:51   heard any corroboration to support some [TS]

00:27:55   of these facts like the specific about [TS]

00:27:57   the meeting [TS]

00:27:58   additionally I know firsthand that many [TS]

00:28:01   of the things in the article stated as [TS]

00:28:02   fact or imply this fact are wrong or [TS]

00:28:05   misleading with how with how the system [TS]

00:28:07   works or [TS]

00:28:09   you know apples role in it or technical [TS]

00:28:11   details of how it works so taken with [TS]

00:28:15   the giant pile assault honestly i would [TS]

00:28:17   i would say don't even bother reading it [TS]

00:28:19   if you did read it it reads more like [TS]

00:28:21   something that maybe somebody on forbes [TS]

00:28:24   would have written to to be like an anti [TS]

00:28:27   apple like clickbait piece because it [TS]

00:28:29   contributes a lot of of of intent and [TS]

00:28:33   like malice to apple for like what [TS]

00:28:35   they've been holding back on all these [TS]

00:28:37   years and stuff like that that is just [TS]

00:28:39   it misleading investors and then in some [TS]

00:28:42   cases just outright wrong say it needs [TS]

00:28:45   to be taken with a lot of with a lot of [TS]

00:28:46   salt so that being said I think there [TS]

00:28:49   you can look at at the medium here the [TS]

00:28:51   podcasting medium the way the way it has [TS]

00:28:54   worked so far which basically works like [TS]

00:28:57   RSS readers that happen to play audio [TS]

00:28:59   files it's basically it like its precise [TS]

00:29:01   photoshop RSS feeds with mp3's or you're [TS]

00:29:04   a seasoned the vast majority of mp3s was [TS]

00:29:06   gonna say that from now on and clients [TS]

00:29:09   are basically RSS readers and they [TS]

00:29:11   affect those RSS feeds for everything is [TS]

00:29:13   described to and when a person is [TS]

00:29:15   present they download the mp3 file [TS]

00:29:17   that's better than the liquid which is [TS]

00:29:18   better than the feed they print then [TS]

00:29:20   they showed he was an episode where it's [TS]

00:29:22   playing it's simply playing mp3 it is [TS]

00:29:24   not like loading pages on the site of [TS]

00:29:28   the of the podcast provider or anything [TS]

00:29:31   like that it is not executing javascript [TS]

00:29:34   on their behalf it is not sending them [TS]

00:29:35   tracking information they do get the the [TS]

00:29:39   hit on their server for when you fetch [TS]

00:29:42   that mp3 so they did so podcasters [TS]

00:29:45   already have a certain amount of data [TS]

00:29:47   about their listeners and so the idea [TS]

00:29:50   that like you know Appling to step in [TS]

00:29:52   and provide data so that people can have [TS]

00:29:55   any idea what what size their audiences [TS]

00:29:57   it's a little exaggerated because we [TS]

00:29:59   already know how big our audiences it's [TS]

00:30:01   a little bit approximated but i think [TS]

00:30:04   you know I think history shows with a [TS]

00:30:05   lot of this you know data science in in [TS]

00:30:08   massive quotes I'm just my fingers are [TS]

00:30:10   just constantly moving during this whole [TS]

00:30:11   this whole thing constant air quotes [TS]

00:30:13   just up and down all the like web data [TS]

00:30:16   stuff is also in precise so you know and [TS]

00:30:18   is also very easily faked and defrauded [TS]

00:30:21   all the time and everything so [TS]

00:30:22   all the problems that apply to what we [TS]

00:30:24   have now also apply to to you know [TS]

00:30:26   proper my fingers are still moving big [TS]

00:30:29   data kind of analytics and and and [TS]

00:30:32   creepy tracking stuff anyway so we [TS]

00:30:35   already know how big the audience is to [TS]

00:30:37   a rough degree where they are to a rough [TS]

00:30:40   degree and how many of them downloaded [TS]

00:30:43   show we don't need that level of data [TS]

00:30:46   integration where you go much beyond [TS]

00:30:48   this yet and we might in the future in [TS]

00:30:51   order to get like hi ad rates but right [TS]

00:30:54   now we don't [TS]

00:30:55   the reason the web had has had well [TS]

00:30:58   quote had to my fingers still moving had [TS]

00:31:01   to do all this creepy data stuff is [TS]

00:31:03   because web address just plummeted that [TS]

00:31:07   mean they were never great to begin with [TS]

00:31:08   and over the years since the web has [TS]

00:31:10   been a thing I think they just basically [TS]

00:31:13   always gone down because general like [TS]

00:31:15   web display ads like ads you see on the [TS]

00:31:18   side of a new site or increasingly on [TS]

00:31:20   top of the news that you're trying to [TS]

00:31:22   read a floating in flying around the new [TS]

00:31:24   site in the background of the news site [TS]

00:31:25   and every sidebar button below the [TS]

00:31:27   content posing as content posing as all [TS]

00:31:29   these top news stories because we're do [TS]

00:31:31   tricks the new scientists wanted to [TS]

00:31:32   learn about britney spears like it [TS]

00:31:34   the reason it keeps getting so bad on [TS]

00:31:35   the web is that nobody looks at web ads [TS]

00:31:38   nobody see it's not that people see them [TS]

00:31:41   ignore them but people even see them [TS]

00:31:43   even if you don't have an ad blocker [TS]

00:31:45   installed you like visually don't see [TS]

00:31:48   them like heat you like you don't [TS]

00:31:50   perceive them you you skip over them to [TS]

00:31:52   the whole banner blindness thing is real [TS]

00:31:54   there's very little that that web [TS]

00:31:56   publishers can really do to make a lot [TS]

00:31:59   of money on those things and and so [TS]

00:32:01   they've had to do all this crazy [TS]

00:32:03   tracking stuff just to try to make it [TS]

00:32:05   slightly more targeted to raise the [TS]

00:32:07   rates slightly more and then of course [TS]

00:32:10   there's the rise of all these [TS]

00:32:11   programmatic ad exchanges which makes [TS]

00:32:13   everything even worse and even more [TS]

00:32:14   horrible and even more creepy track but [TS]

00:32:16   this that's alongside that we need to [TS]

00:32:19   get any more into summary version [TS]

00:32:21   basically the web sucks for ads like it [TS]

00:32:25   is it is a terrible place to advertise [TS]

00:32:27   it is a terrible place to publish [TS]

00:32:29   advertisements to try to make money from [TS]

00:32:31   them [TS]

00:32:31   additionally as i mentioned before all [TS]

00:32:33   the massive fraud that goes on like it [TS]

00:32:36   such a mess it is so it's just bad for [TS]

00:32:38   everybody because the medium just [TS]

00:32:40   doesn't work that well for display just [TS]

00:32:42   it just doesn't work very well [TS]

00:32:44   simple as that and as everything gets [TS]

00:32:46   more and more cutthroat and advanced [TS]

00:32:48   technically and algorithmically [TS]

00:32:50   generated and everything it's just [TS]

00:32:52   getting worse and worse hours and it's [TS]

00:32:54   this kind of no one inside there with [TS]

00:32:55   the web the web as a place to make money [TS]

00:32:57   through advertising is really a pretty [TS]

00:33:00   pretty bad place to be so podcasts on [TS]

00:33:04   the other hand because these are just [TS]

00:33:06   mp3 files [TS]

00:33:07   it's just an audio stream there's [TS]

00:33:09   basically nothing you can really do to [TS]

00:33:13   advertise in an audio stream except just [TS]

00:33:16   insert a an ad that somebody is speaking [TS]

00:33:18   into the stream and because of lots of [TS]

00:33:22   reasons there's not a lot of tracking [TS]

00:33:24   you can do to say like you know did [TS]

00:33:26   people here that ad with a few [TS]

00:33:28   exceptions but for the most part nobody [TS]

00:33:30   you can't really track the people here [TS]

00:33:32   this day people listen this far on the [TS]

00:33:33   show like you pretty much can't do it [TS]

00:33:35   cause like what if somebody's playing it [TS]

00:33:37   on their ipod didn't even have an [TS]

00:33:39   internet connection you know like that [TS]

00:33:40   you don't know that they're still [TS]

00:33:42   playing the file you downloaded from you [TS]

00:33:43   and there's no way for that report [TS]

00:33:44   reported to you [TS]

00:33:45   what if they're playing it in like some [TS]

00:33:47   like web in bed or Twitter and Bedwyr [TS]

00:33:49   like they're just babies can see the mp3 [TS]

00:33:51   file but they're not like loading a [TS]

00:33:54   whole app there are they're not loading [TS]

00:33:56   your whole webpage or something like [TS]

00:33:58   they're still listening and buy by the [TS]

00:34:00   wrong metric of download counts they [TS]

00:34:03   will be counted but that's all you can [TS]

00:34:06   really get one of the soothing sound of [TS]

00:34:08   our voices put them to sleep and as they [TS]

00:34:10   fall asleep and that's why exactly like [TS]

00:34:13   she should we get paid for those like so [TS]

00:34:15   it that there's no way to tell whether [TS]

00:34:16   somebody has listened to a certain point [TS]

00:34:18   basically unless you control the app and [TS]

00:34:21   we'll get to that [TS]

00:34:22   so anyway this to me is like this [TS]

00:34:25   beautiful system because the web [TS]

00:34:28   I i love the web and it makes me so sad [TS]

00:34:30   to see what the web has become over the [TS]

00:34:33   last five years or so as everything is [TS]

00:34:36   just gotten so much more cutthroat and [TS]

00:34:38   driven by automated adtech and [TS]

00:34:40   algorithmic content generation and it's [TS]

00:34:42   just and said it's it's just it's just a [TS]

00:34:44   mess and as a fan of both the web as a [TS]

00:34:47   medium and also the the [TS]

00:34:49   openness of blogging and RSS feeds and [TS]

00:34:51   everything which I still used by the way [TS]

00:34:53   still use an RSS reader it's not that [TS]

00:34:55   that world is is losing to Facebook and [TS]

00:35:00   Twitter and an apple and these these [TS]

00:35:03   kind of closed ecosystems that makes me [TS]

00:35:07   very sad and podcasting is still run [TS]

00:35:10   that way the question basically the the [TS]

00:35:14   debate here is whether podcasting can [TS]

00:35:18   still be run that way for a longer time [TS]

00:35:20   or whether this you know the article [TS]

00:35:22   kept saying like it's outgrown its roots [TS]

00:35:25   has it like this podcasting really need [TS]

00:35:29   to add all this crap to the people's [TS]

00:35:31   business grow because podcasting is [TS]

00:35:35   working just fine the way it is [TS]

00:35:37   we get so so if you talk about like how [TS]

00:35:39   much you make per listener / / user and [TS]

00:35:42   people call this the CPM the cost per [TS]

00:35:44   thousand impressions well however you [TS]

00:35:47   measure that [TS]

00:35:48   thanks france by the way for the am so [TS]

00:35:50   the web [TS]

00:35:51   I think you're lucky to get I mean [TS]

00:35:54   what's a good web CPM today like a few [TS]

00:35:57   dollars maybe at most I mean with [TS]

00:35:59   podcasting the numbers are lower list of [TS]

00:36:01   numbers are lower like you know a good [TS]

00:36:03   website it can get millions of hits a [TS]

00:36:05   month the top podcast things like this [TS]

00:36:08   american life like really big podcast [TS]

00:36:11   might get like a million downloads a [TS]

00:36:13   month or something in that ballpark I [TS]

00:36:14   don't have recent numbers on that but [TS]

00:36:16   that's what I heard like a year or two [TS]

00:36:17   ago someone that you know a million [TS]

00:36:19   downloads a month for a podcast will put [TS]

00:36:21   you in like the top handle a podcast [TS]

00:36:23   that exists in the world whereas a [TS]

00:36:24   million hits to a web pages is kinda [TS]

00:36:26   like lower mid-level trafficker these [TS]

00:36:29   days like you can get way more than that [TS]

00:36:30   if you're big site but the podcast can [TS]

00:36:34   command something like a 22 $60 CPM [TS]

00:36:39   instead of what the web is getting like [TS]

00:36:41   you know a dollar or two because pockets [TS]

00:36:44   advertising is just so much more [TS]

00:36:46   effective [TS]

00:36:46   it's not even close it is way more [TS]

00:36:49   effective and part that's because you [TS]

00:36:52   have you know people like us at the [TS]

00:36:53   hosts reading the ads and that makes you [TS]

00:36:55   pay attention more a big part of it is [TS]

00:36:58   you're actually hearing them as opposed [TS]

00:37:00   to the web where you just do not even [TS]

00:37:01   see the ads at all [TS]

00:37:02   and not because bad blockers because you [TS]

00:37:04   actually just ignore them podcast answer [TS]

00:37:06   so much more effective just because of [TS]

00:37:08   the medium because of how its heard [TS]

00:37:10   where it's heard who is saying what [TS]

00:37:12   they're saying the relationship people [TS]

00:37:14   have the dedication they have where and [TS]

00:37:16   how they're listening as opposed to look [TS]

00:37:18   on the web your kind of like skimming [TS]

00:37:20   constantly and you can get there as fast [TS]

00:37:22   as you can [TS]

00:37:23   a podcast you're probably listening to [TS]

00:37:25   while doing something else whether it's [TS]

00:37:27   working driving whatever the case you're [TS]

00:37:29   less physically engaged in the activity [TS]

00:37:32   so you're less likely i think just get [TS]

00:37:33   the ad it's it's just such a different [TS]

00:37:35   environment that it just happens to work [TS]

00:37:38   way better for ads so for some reason [TS]

00:37:41   this handful of big podcasters allegedly [TS]

00:37:45   met with some people and apple allegedly [TS]

00:37:48   trying to get them to say well we want [TS]

00:37:51   we want to basically do like web levels [TS]

00:37:53   of data tracking and we want Apple to [TS]

00:37:57   put that in there at because that's what [TS]

00:37:59   we can have we can really have it done [TS]

00:38:00   is to put these things in apps it the [TS]

00:38:02   implication there is because they want [TS]

00:38:04   their business models to be more like [TS]

00:38:06   the web and that just seems insane to me [TS]

00:38:09   because the web is in such shambles and [TS]

00:38:13   we have it great over here in podcast [TS]

00:38:15   land they don't know how lucky they are [TS]

00:38:17   that the web does these data things [TS]

00:38:20   because it has 24 most sites to get [TS]

00:38:23   anything at all [TS]

00:38:24   not because that is the inevitable way [TS]

00:38:27   forward to quote grow your business [TS]

00:38:30   podcasting is not new it is not even i [TS]

00:38:34   would even say it's booming I think it's [TS]

00:38:37   growing steadily the same way it has for [TS]

00:38:40   10 years and if you look at like podcast [TS]

00:38:43   growth it's not a hockey stick curve [TS]

00:38:46   it's basically a line and everyone's [TS]

00:38:49   everyone who thinks it's new it's just [TS]

00:38:51   like it's like to tip the iceberg thing [TS]

00:38:53   like they were finally put out of the [TS]

00:38:54   ocean where it's like they think oh my [TS]

00:38:55   god this is here all of a sudden in [TS]

00:38:57   reality like no it's been growing the [TS]

00:38:58   entire time on the oceans didn't see it [TS]

00:39:00   there that there's basically the debate [TS]

00:39:03   over whether podcasting needs to change [TS]

00:39:08   in order to enable quote growth or two [TS]

00:39:12   mature or something and this what what [TS]

00:39:14   angered me so much for this article [TS]

00:39:16   in addition to all the things that got [TS]

00:39:18   like factually wrong or misleading it [TS]

00:39:20   basically stated as given as fact that [TS]

00:39:23   podcasting was outgrowing its roots and [TS]

00:39:26   needed to change the way it operates to [TS]

00:39:30   be more like the web [TS]

00:39:32   I very strongly disagree with that i'm [TS]

00:39:35   not saying the podcasting should never [TS]

00:39:36   change but I am saying i don't think it [TS]

00:39:39   needs to change in this way right now [TS]

00:39:41   and possibly ever because this is a [TS]

00:39:44   different medium it works very [TS]

00:39:45   differently and the idea that a few [TS]

00:39:48   people most of whom come from the web [TS]

00:39:51   and ad tech world's think the podcast [TS]

00:39:53   should work more like the web [TS]

00:39:55   first of all I find that baffling [TS]

00:39:56   because I said the web sucks and and [TS]

00:39:59   second of all I i think that is that is [TS]

00:40:01   a bad argument it but it doesn't follow [TS]

00:40:03   like that you can't make that argument [TS]

00:40:04   without support that showing that [TS]

00:40:06   somehow podcasting is really suffering [TS]

00:40:08   without this and is declining and needs [TS]

00:40:10   this to survive and I see no evidence of [TS]

00:40:13   that at all in fact i'm doing the [TS]

00:40:14   opposite i'm seeing podcasting is [TS]

00:40:15   growing and is doing very well [TS]

00:40:17   going to the to the apple site like what [TS]

00:40:19   can Apple do apple is a directory [TS]

00:40:23   they're the biggest directory and they [TS]

00:40:25   had this big editorial section where [TS]

00:40:27   they can promote shows which they do and [TS]

00:40:29   as far as i know they're the only people [TS]

00:40:30   who who invest a lot of human effort to [TS]

00:40:33   actually make editorial podcast pics in [TS]

00:40:36   lots of different categories every week [TS]

00:40:37   and around the world i think so like [TS]

00:40:41   that you know they're already doing a [TS]

00:40:42   lot of editorial side [TS]

00:40:43   I don't know what else they could do on [TS]

00:40:45   the editorial side I think I think like [TS]

00:40:46   they're doing they're already doing way [TS]

00:40:49   more than anybody could be expected to [TS]

00:40:51   do given that they're making a little [TS]

00:40:53   money off of podcasting I think they're [TS]

00:40:54   doing a very good job APPL I think [TS]

00:40:56   editorially I think they're set we [TS]

00:40:59   should be thankful to do as much as they [TS]

00:41:00   as they do and then you have the Apple [TS]

00:41:04   player and this is kind of where it so [TS]

00:41:07   the a podcast players the most popular [TS]

00:41:08   podcast playing app the one built and [TS]

00:41:10   built into iOS I don't know how itunes [TS]

00:41:12   does anymore the desktop i think it's [TS]

00:41:13   pretty small probably but but the 1i OS [TS]

00:41:16   that comes comes with iOS called [TS]

00:41:17   podcasts from Apple the purple icon that [TS]

00:41:20   is the most popular pockets on the road [TS]

00:41:21   has something like sixty percent [TS]

00:41:22   sixty-seven percent of podcast downloads [TS]

00:41:26   according to most people and so they're [TS]

00:41:28   basically pushing up [TS]

00:41:29   to say the stats we get now are not [TS]

00:41:31   enough we want you to do two things for [TS]

00:41:34   us we want you to a give us as much data [TS]

00:41:36   as you can about the people so tell us [TS]

00:41:38   like how many downloads into your app [TS]

00:41:40   actually listen to where they listen you [TS]

00:41:42   know where they stopped playing episode [TS]

00:41:44   like what exactly what time stamp down [TS]

00:41:46   to the second so we can optimize your [TS]

00:41:47   content and tweak our storytelling [TS]

00:41:50   abilities and their advertisers can ask [TS]

00:41:52   how many people actually heard our [TS]

00:41:53   entire ads they can then I guess not pay [TS]

00:41:56   us like I get a lot of these things [TS]

00:41:59   don't make sense when you think them [TS]

00:42:01   through that I don't know why why [TS]

00:42:03   because we asking for these things [TS]

00:42:05   anyway so that's that's part one is that [TS]

00:42:08   they want Apple to to add all this [TS]

00:42:10   creepy data tracking to their player app [TS]

00:42:12   and then to report it to the podcast in [TS]

00:42:15   some way and once again I think Jason's [TS]

00:42:17   now on my curly on upgrade this past [TS]

00:42:19   week I did a very very good job of [TS]

00:42:21   covering exactly like what the kind of [TS]

00:42:23   implications of this would be and how [TS]

00:42:25   like just that the scale of the [TS]

00:42:27   operation this would entail to even do [TS]

00:42:29   this if they wanted to and how useful [TS]

00:42:31   the data would actually be considering [TS]

00:42:33   that it's not that it like it isn't all [TS]

00:42:36   listeners its depending on the show [TS]

00:42:39   somewhere between like probably 20 and [TS]

00:42:41   seventy percent of listeners so you know [TS]

00:42:44   that's and it might not be [TS]

00:42:45   representative sample so it's you know [TS]

00:42:47   it the quality of the David they would [TS]

00:42:49   get woody wood itself being questioned [TS]

00:42:51   even if they got it and in the process [TS]

00:42:53   then getting it and the the systems [TS]

00:42:56   involved the implementation of that [TS]

00:42:57   would be a huge mess not to mention all [TS]

00:42:59   the ethical and quality issues it would [TS]

00:43:02   then create the incentives that would [TS]

00:43:04   create with podcast creation with with [TS]

00:43:07   these pro podcasters to like structure [TS]

00:43:09   shows differently so they would boost [TS]

00:43:10   these numbers and in these little tiny [TS]

00:43:12   ways that would kind of sacrifice [TS]

00:43:14   quality or overall flow but how it would [TS]

00:43:18   give us five percent move this month you [TS]

00:43:19   know because you can say now that would [TS]

00:43:21   never happen but look at the web it [TS]

00:43:22   happens it always happens [TS]

00:43:24   so you know let's not kid ourselves that [TS]

00:43:26   would definitely happen so you have this [TS]

00:43:29   made this massive problematic request of [TS]

00:43:32   the more data then you also have three [TS]

00:43:35   the request of podcasters that Apple [TS]

00:43:37   enable other business models and what [TS]

00:43:40   they basically mean is enable away for [TS]

00:43:42   people to pay for our show [TS]

00:43:43   you know there's there's already ways to [TS]

00:43:45   pay for podcasts lots of podcast do i [TS]

00:43:48   know this because overcast doesn't [TS]

00:43:50   support their feeds and I hear from all [TS]

00:43:52   their fans everyday but there's already [TS]

00:43:56   ways to do things like paid feeds [TS]

00:43:59   members only feeds whether it's [TS]

00:44:00   password-protected or its hidden URL to [TS]

00:44:03   support those thanks Jason idea to [TS]

00:44:05   support please subscribe 26 colors you [TS]

00:44:09   know the password stuff I don't support [TS]

00:44:10   and and some a lot of them like that tho [TS]

00:44:12   members only area or or paid podcast [TS]

00:44:15   that aren't even distributed as podcast [TS]

00:44:16   files then feed you you like sign up [TS]

00:44:18   with their website and you can download [TS]

00:44:20   the audio files there are lots of ways [TS]

00:44:22   to do this the biggest way to do this [TS]

00:44:24   though Apple made in 2008 called the app [TS]

00:44:28   store this is what most people do if [TS]

00:44:31   they want to have a paid podcast they [TS]

00:44:33   release their own app to play their [TS]

00:44:36   podcast which gives them all the [TS]

00:44:39   capabilities that the podcasters are [TS]

00:44:41   asking Apple for allegedly that already [TS]

00:44:43   exists its existed for eight years [TS]

00:44:46   it's called the App Store you can make [TS]

00:44:48   your app you can charge whatever you [TS]

00:44:50   want for the app you can have in-app [TS]

00:44:52   purchase in the app you can control the [TS]

00:44:54   entire player experience and do all the [TS]

00:44:56   creepy data tracking you want that's [TS]

00:44:58   already there many podcasts have their [TS]

00:45:01   own apps [TS]

00:45:02   this is not a new thing and it works [TS]

00:45:04   okay i don't know anybody who makes a [TS]

00:45:07   ton of their of their listenership or [TS]

00:45:09   money that way but they make some it's [TS]

00:45:11   fine [TS]

00:45:12   so you know what if that's the kind of [TS]

00:45:14   system you want it already exists and [TS]

00:45:16   take it from a developer i guarantee you [TS]

00:45:19   that whatever Apple would do with the [TS]

00:45:21   podcast app store with the podcast or [TS]

00:45:24   that that everyone's apparently asking [TS]

00:45:25   for would be worse [TS]

00:45:27   that would be a worse system than just [TS]

00:45:30   making your nap [TS]

00:45:31   you don't want that trust me like either [TS]

00:45:34   way apples taking 30-percent let's be [TS]

00:45:36   honest here I mean we know that they're [TS]

00:45:38   taking at least thirty percent either [TS]

00:45:39   way you know at least in the app store [TS]

00:45:41   it's only thirty percent if you if they [TS]

00:45:42   make their own pocket store because the [TS]

00:45:44   opportunity to set a new rate might be [TS]

00:45:46   hired at Apple's services company so you [TS]

00:45:48   believe me you don't want the head that [TS]

00:45:50   you understand why they don't want to [TS]

00:45:51   make their own app like it isn't it [TS]

00:45:53   obvious like the fragmentation problem [TS]

00:45:56   that if [TS]

00:45:56   everyone has their own app like they'd [TS]

00:45:57   be the advancement of the app store is [TS]

00:46:00   the one place you go to get all the [TS]

00:46:01   software instead of having to go to [TS]

00:46:02   individual developers website that [TS]

00:46:04   discoverability problems and making [TS]

00:46:05   people aware and came to fatigue as kind [TS]

00:46:08   of like we have an apple TV that like [TS]

00:46:09   that the fatigue of like I don't want to [TS]

00:46:12   listen to this podcast together this a [TS]

00:46:13   priority that podcast that app like your [TS]

00:46:16   kind of like when when books for [TS]

00:46:17   individual apps back when Apple was [TS]

00:46:19   allowing that you get one book is an [TS]

00:46:20   individual app it's just it's a lot of [TS]

00:46:22   fragmentation and everybody good that [TS]

00:46:24   it's really hard to get attention from [TS]

00:46:27   anybody and I can build the sort of [TS]

00:46:28   level playing clear that you were [TS]

00:46:30   talking about before is an advantage of [TS]

00:46:32   saying like Apple you dissemble met this [TS]

00:46:33   stuff is sort of the baseline within the [TS]

00:46:36   only podcast player app that matters the [TS]

00:46:38   built-in appleone as far as these people [TS]

00:46:39   are concerned allegedly in this in this [TS]

00:46:41   article here then we wouldn't have to [TS]

00:46:44   fight for the attention to get our app [TS]

00:46:46   downloaded and it really is a barrier to [TS]

00:46:48   people like people don't want to have to [TS]

00:46:49   download a new app forever it's like [TS]

00:46:52   having to download a new app for [TS]

00:46:53   removing your policy is a rather just go [TS]

00:46:54   to a store and be able to render by the [TS]

00:46:56   movie and you want to go to 17 different [TS]

00:46:57   stores and that there are still multiple [TS]

00:46:59   stores but it was one per pod cast [TS]

00:47:01   that's bad [TS]

00:47:02   so I kind of what i'm trying to do [TS]

00:47:04   reading this article is put myself into [TS]

00:47:06   perhaps not the headspace of the [TS]

00:47:08   theoretical people who talk to apple but [TS]

00:47:11   the headspace of the author of this [TS]

00:47:13   article because a lot of things this [TS]

00:47:15   article are not quotes are not and are [TS]

00:47:17   not like sentiments attributed to people [TS]

00:47:20   who supposedly met with Apple but rather [TS]

00:47:22   just stated [TS]

00:47:23   yeah in what looks like the authors [TS]

00:47:24   voice presumably informed by the I don't [TS]

00:47:29   know by accounts of the meeting and I'm [TS]

00:47:31   trying to let try to figure out like why [TS]

00:47:34   is it that the author or the people that [TS]

00:47:37   the author spoke to believe these things [TS]

00:47:39   about podcasting like what is I know [TS]

00:47:43   what what what what are we missing visit [TS]

00:47:45   you I think you've outlined pretty [TS]

00:47:46   well-liked from our perspective doesn't [TS]

00:47:48   make any sense but our perspectives and [TS]

00:47:49   the only perspective and I think the [TS]

00:47:51   best thing I've come up with is that if [TS]

00:47:55   you want to if you want to reach a [TS]

00:47:58   bigger audience like podcasts are the [TS]

00:48:01   size of they are serial is way bigger [TS]

00:48:03   than lots of podcasts this american life [TS]

00:48:05   is way bigger but that kind of barely [TS]

00:48:06   house because it is built it audience on [TS]

00:48:08   the radio and not [TS]

00:48:09   as a podcast right um if you want to go [TS]

00:48:12   really big with that big audience i [TS]

00:48:15   means I suppose high production values [TS]

00:48:19   across more to make shows that good the [TS]

00:48:21   battery know if that's true but like I'm [TS]

00:48:22   trying again i'm trying to get in their [TS]

00:48:24   head in there thinking like I think it's [TS]

00:48:25   loosely correlated high production [TS]

00:48:26   values can result in better shows they [TS]

00:48:28   do sometimes do something better shows [TS]

00:48:30   but they are they don't always and they [TS]

00:48:32   aren't always required right but anyway [TS]

00:48:34   they're going for if you were going for [TS]

00:48:35   a much bigger audience part of that [TS]

00:48:37   would also be going for bigger [TS]

00:48:39   advertiser's advertisers who are used to [TS]

00:48:43   who would not bother advertising on the [TS]

00:48:47   numbers the most podcast put up and if [TS]

00:48:50   you want big advertisers big advertisers [TS]

00:48:53   have been conditioned by all the crap on [TS]

00:48:55   the web that you just talked about want [TS]

00:48:57   this information that is not available [TS]

00:48:59   from podcast so it's kind of like we [TS]

00:49:01   want to go really big we want to go mass [TS]

00:49:03   market and by the way when you go [TS]

00:49:04   mass-market your CPMs go down because [TS]

00:49:07   mass-market like we're gonna make a show [TS]

00:49:09   for everybody everybody is not as [TS]

00:49:11   valuable as people who are SuperDuper [TS]

00:49:13   into model trains because it if you have [TS]

00:49:15   a podcast that you know for people who [TS]

00:49:17   are SuperDuper into model trains model [TS]

00:49:19   trains manufacturers will pay a lot for [TS]

00:49:21   that right [TS]

00:49:22   whereas if you're gonna have our podcast [TS]

00:49:24   isn't dubai everyone everyone is not a [TS]

00:49:26   great demo or like our podcast listen to [TS]

00:49:29   it but you know like you really the the [TS]

00:49:31   reason podcast get such icp-ms and the [TS]

00:49:33   reason i think a lot of tech podcast get [TS]

00:49:35   icp-ms is it's a it's a narrow [TS]

00:49:38   self-selecting audience based on the [TS]

00:49:39   topic and those audiences can be much [TS]

00:49:42   more valuable than the mass audiences so [TS]

00:49:44   anyway if you be want to make podcast [TS]

00:49:47   way bigger and sell to a mass audience [TS]

00:49:48   and your CPM goes down you really need [TS]

00:49:51   the tools that will let you get cold to [TS]

00:49:53   put an advertisement on your thing or [TS]

00:49:55   you know talk to proctor and gamble or [TS]

00:49:56   whatever like these really big things [TS]

00:50:00   that you know by super bowl ads and are [TS]

00:50:03   you have huge ad budgets and I think [TS]

00:50:06   that's kind of the chicken egg thing [TS]

00:50:07   they're trying to go it's like podcast [TS]

00:50:09   is it looks like it also wasted medium [TS]

00:50:11   from the perspective of these these that [TS]

00:50:12   people who are going to want to go for a [TS]

00:50:14   big audience like I bet many more people [TS]

00:50:16   would go for any other thing about radio [TS]

00:50:18   like you have [TS]

00:50:19   you know every kind of mass advertiser [TS]

00:50:22   be on the radio because like all this [TS]

00:50:23   reaches everybody but the everybody [TS]

00:50:25   model is so different than the current [TS]

00:50:26   podcasting while I think what they want [TS]

00:50:28   to happen is please make a world where [TS]

00:50:31   coca-cola will advertise and here are [TS]

00:50:33   the ingredients we see that will hook up [TS]

00:50:36   all the pieces in this chain so that we [TS]

00:50:37   will have a podcast that plays 250 [TS]

00:50:39   million people and that really big [TS]

00:50:41   companies pay for ads or at a tremendous [TS]

00:50:43   rate and a tremendously mostly p.m. but [TS]

00:50:46   we'll make it up in volume and now we [TS]

00:50:48   are big player and we will just squish [TS]

00:50:50   all the other shows and we'll make [TS]

00:50:51   cereal look like a little silly NPR [TS]

00:50:53   fluke i don't have enough cereals NPR [TS]

00:50:55   sorry pris see over the holidays and [TS]

00:50:59   that and like and that's so outside our [TS]

00:51:02   understanding of podcasts and our little [TS]

00:51:03   text circle and our nerdy podcast and [TS]

00:51:05   stuff like that I don't necessarily [TS]

00:51:08   think that that can't and shouldn't [TS]

00:51:11   exist but like as a goal I kind of see [TS]

00:51:16   it as well as something to that like [TS]

00:51:18   imagine if you have the podcast [TS]

00:51:20   everybody let's do see really seems like [TS]

00:51:22   it was most people you know like it's [TS]

00:51:24   just been compared to other podcast it's [TS]

00:51:25   not as if someone came out with the the [TS]

00:51:28   equivalent of you know Star Wars 1977 [TS]

00:51:31   like the movie that everybody and [TS]

00:51:33   generation saw there's no podcast [TS]

00:51:35   equivalent to that yet and they could be [TS]

00:51:37   going for it and I think that's an [TS]

00:51:38   interesting goal and interesting to [TS]

00:51:41   aspire to but the way the things they're [TS]

00:51:44   asking for a are informed by the web and [TS]

00:51:45   like you said like that's pretty stupid [TS]

00:51:47   and be like the whole what they're [TS]

00:51:49   asking Apple to do I don't understand [TS]

00:51:51   why maybe they haven't been burned [TS]

00:51:53   enough by this but asking Apple to a [TS]

00:51:54   building's analytics into your app and [TS]

00:51:57   make you know it and subscriptions and [TS]

00:51:59   stuff like that and of course there are [TS]

00:52:00   so many things that only Apple can do [TS]

00:52:01   because their platform level things or [TS]

00:52:03   have to do with the app store and [TS]

00:52:05   there's only one way to get software on [TS]

00:52:06   your things through the app store again [TS]

00:52:08   focusing on iOS but i'm sure they make [TS]

00:52:10   the same pitch to google it google get [TS]

00:52:12   on google play thing going on over there [TS]

00:52:13   but were they successful in lobbying [TS]

00:52:16   apple for the things they supposedly [TS]

00:52:18   once they will just let you know that in [TS]

00:52:20   their wildest dreams what they will have [TS]

00:52:21   successfully done is created youtube [TS]

00:52:23   which is terrible for just over a [TS]

00:52:25   situation where the only reasonable way [TS]

00:52:28   to make money with video on the web is [TS]

00:52:31   through YouTube and YouTube controls [TS]

00:52:32   army [TS]

00:52:33   music yeah youtube controls everything [TS]

00:52:35   about it and there's no competition and [TS]

00:52:37   they can change the terms of the same [TS]

00:52:39   time what the hell you going to do [TS]

00:52:40   because it's YouTube like why would you [TS]

00:52:42   ask me that why would you get you are [TS]

00:52:44   you know again [TS]

00:52:45   tapos credit or whatever or capitals [TS]

00:52:48   apathy or whatever like they're probably [TS]

00:52:49   not going to do any of this stuff but if [TS]

00:52:51   they did it would be terrible for [TS]

00:52:53   everyone involved both the big guys [TS]

00:52:55   because they would just be putting [TS]

00:52:56   themselves under the thumb of apple and [TS]

00:52:58   for the small people who were like no we [TS]

00:53:00   don't want that we like to be free and [TS]

00:53:01   open or whatever like so it's a terrible [TS]

00:53:03   doomsday scenario if they got what they [TS]

00:53:06   wanted because it would it would just [TS]

00:53:07   make it dysfunction all the way you [TS]

00:53:09   talked about for the web and the data [TS]

00:53:11   and the in ever decreasing CPMs in the [TS]

00:53:13   Indian the perverse incentives in the [TS]

00:53:14   fraud and everything like that and you [TS]

00:53:16   would be shoveling all the power in the [TS]

00:53:18   market to this one gatekeeper just [TS]

00:53:20   because you didn't write one right here [TS]

00:53:21   on happen because you couldn't abide to [TS]

00:53:23   have simple open system with RSS VHP [TS]

00:53:25   suggest it wouldn't didn't give you the [TS]

00:53:27   analytics you like it's it's such a [TS]

00:53:29   terrible thing to want like and I I kind [TS]

00:53:32   of see where they're coming from like we [TS]

00:53:33   want the big breakout hit and we need [TS]

00:53:35   this data and we need these tools but I [TS]

00:53:37   feel like you should work that out so [TS]

00:53:39   hard for me to talk with us even [TS]

00:53:40   accepting the premise that these things [TS]

00:53:42   happen in the article weather said it [TS]

00:53:43   but because they didn't end it did but [TS]

00:53:46   you should be talking to coca-cola about [TS]

00:53:48   how they should be ok with you know [TS]

00:53:52   funding this podcast for celebrities [TS]

00:53:54   that you think millions and millions of [TS]

00:53:55   people are going to listen to without [TS]

00:53:56   the obsessive data that they think they [TS]

00:53:59   should technically be able to get that [TS]

00:54:01   coca-cola picture back to the olden days [TS]

00:54:03   when people feel that little paper forms [TS]

00:54:05   after they watch television shows and [TS]

00:54:06   you and you bought you bought [TS]

00:54:08   advertisement based on that and now [TS]

00:54:10   we're going to tell you a precise number [TS]

00:54:11   of downloads and you won't do it because [TS]

00:54:13   it's just not enough data and you need [TS]

00:54:14   to know the exact demos and again where [TS]

00:54:15   they live what their income is and what [TS]

00:54:17   things that last click on what the last [TS]

00:54:18   boss on amazon what cookies been [TS]

00:54:20   tracking them through their facebook [TS]

00:54:22   clicks for the last it's just I it's [TS]

00:54:26   it's a somewhat admirable goal to try to [TS]

00:54:29   make like a podcast breakout hit but i [TS]

00:54:32   think the supposedly demands of these [TS]

00:54:36   people and in this article are totally [TS]

00:54:39   the wrong way to go about it and one [TS]

00:54:42   tiny passage that highlighted here is to [TS]

00:54:43   finish up like makes me just question [TS]

00:54:46   everything about this is again not a [TS]

00:54:47   quote and not attributed to anything but [TS]

00:54:49   it's a the articles as promotion within [TS]

00:54:52   iTunes which is one of the only reliable [TS]

00:54:54   ways to build an audience particularly [TS]

00:54:55   for a new show is decidedly decided by [TS]

00:54:58   small team blah blah promotion within [TS]

00:55:00   itunes is not not only not one of the [TS]

00:55:05   only reliable ways to build an audience [TS]

00:55:06   but probably one of the worst ways to [TS]

00:55:10   build an audience because it's like it [TS]

00:55:13   if you could guarantee the you would [TS]

00:55:15   have been promoted as the number one [TS]

00:55:16   podcast on itunes for an entire year [TS]

00:55:19   with that build an audience vs say if [TS]

00:55:23   you made a podcast that promise to [TS]

00:55:26   slowly lay out the plot her star wars [TS]

00:55:27   episode 8 episode 8 entirely unpromoted [TS]

00:55:31   in itunes podcast would crush your [TS]

00:55:33   podcast like it's the only reliable way [TS]

00:55:36   to build and you build an audience by [TS]

00:55:37   making things that people like and [TS]

00:55:39   leveraging existing audience is probably [TS]

00:55:42   the best way to build nice but the only [TS]

00:55:44   reliable way like i don't know i can't [TS]

00:55:46   think of a single person who found their [TS]

00:55:48   favorite podcast because it was promoted [TS]

00:55:50   on itunes i'm sure they're out there and [TS]

00:55:51   I'm sure that they'll send us things but [TS]

00:55:52   like it's just a warped view of the [TS]

00:55:54   world of podcast listening like that's [TS]

00:55:57   not how people discovered cereal people [TS]

00:55:59   did not discover cereal because it was [TS]

00:56:00   promoted in itunes it was promoted in [TS]

00:56:02   itunes because people discovered cereal [TS]

00:56:04   like it's you know like there is a place [TS]

00:56:06   for editorial or whatever but if you got [TS]

00:56:08   in your head the itunes is already this [TS]

00:56:11   this kingmaker gatekeeper i-i-i don't [TS]

00:56:14   let your your abdicating all of your [TS]

00:56:17   responsibility to build your own [TS]

00:56:18   audience by having a good show and doing [TS]

00:56:20   your own marketing and stuff like that [TS]

00:56:21   like again [TS]

00:56:22   editorials important and they do promote [TS]

00:56:24   shows and it's important like you know [TS]

00:56:25   for shows to come out of obscurity that [TS]

00:56:29   that Apple can you put them in new and [TS]

00:56:30   noteworthy and whatever whatever weird [TS]

00:56:32   systems are having and it's a fun little [TS]

00:56:35   thing but really to frame it as the only [TS]

00:56:38   reliable way to build an audience [TS]

00:56:39   particularly for a new show that that [TS]

00:56:42   just does not match with my [TS]

00:56:44   understanding of the podcast world at [TS]

00:56:46   all hot especially when it comes to [TS]

00:56:48   mass-market shows because the mass [TS]

00:56:50   market is not trolling the itunes [TS]

00:56:51   podcast directory [TS]

00:56:52   they don't even know what podcasts are [TS]

00:56:54   right they only know because they heard [TS]

00:56:55   about cereal and that they [TS]

00:56:56   figured out what podcasts are like [TS]

00:56:58   that's the problem like by treating [TS]

00:57:00   apples the whole world [TS]

00:57:02   II know as you very very well said like [TS]

00:57:04   you're not only like trying to make them [TS]

00:57:07   the only platform that matters at all [TS]

00:57:08   i'm trying to increase their share [TS]

00:57:10   but you're also kind of investing in the [TS]

00:57:12   sinking ship because that sixty percent [TS]

00:57:14   market share that they most likely have [TS]

00:57:16   among listening that goes down every [TS]

00:57:18   year [TS]

00:57:19   believe me I've been watching that's [TS]

00:57:21   decreasing over time as more podcast [TS]

00:57:24   players sprout up on iOS and as more [TS]

00:57:27   people finally get around to living on [TS]

00:57:29   android is where android so far has been [TS]

00:57:31   very underrepresented in podcast that's [TS]

00:57:33   according to most big hosted by an [TS]

00:57:36   ellipse and used to used to enhance [TS]

00:57:37   numbers every so often used to be [TS]

00:57:39   something like eight to one in favor of [TS]

00:57:41   iOS four like everything show that they [TS]

00:57:43   host which is a lot of shows now enjoys [TS]

00:57:45   getting higher [TS]

00:57:46   you have people like google play and [TS]

00:57:48   Spotify entering the podcast market in [TS]

00:57:51   possibly big ways mostly have ended up [TS]

00:57:54   going and I don't like them but they [TS]

00:57:56   exist so we'll see how that ends up [TS]

00:57:57   going but you know you have the podcast [TS]

00:58:01   market being becoming more and more [TS]

00:58:03   diverse apple's market shares going down [TS]

00:58:06   and all the sudden these people want to [TS]

00:58:08   give Apple a reason to lock things down [TS]

00:58:11   and dominate that's a terrible idea and [TS]

00:58:14   also like I said just like the idea of [TS]

00:58:16   relying on them for your for like all of [TS]

00:58:18   your audience growth is ridiculous like [TS]

00:58:21   you know and we know from the app store [TS]

00:58:23   we know like know everyone who relies [TS]

00:58:27   only on the app store for their [TS]

00:58:28   promotion we tell them they're doing it [TS]

00:58:30   wrong we tell them like no you can't [TS]

00:58:31   even the apps or people will tell you [TS]

00:58:34   please don't rely on us like and if if [TS]

00:58:37   you're trying to get featured by the app [TS]

00:58:39   store and you have no other marketing [TS]

00:58:41   that actually hurts your chances of [TS]

00:58:43   being featured they want to feature [TS]

00:58:46   things that have real marketing plans [TS]

00:58:48   it's so the idea of trying to like [TS]

00:58:50   basically make apple do all your work [TS]

00:58:52   for you to put your podcast as you said [TS]

00:58:55   John is terrible also getting back to [TS]

00:58:58   the ad thing for a second which 10 ties [TS]

00:59:00   into this all everything that the [TS]

00:59:03   podcasters are asking Apple to do or [TS]

00:59:06   asking for [TS]

00:59:07   is basically comes down to we are not [TS]

00:59:10   making enough / listener from our ads [TS]

00:59:13   and we would like to add this tracking [TS]

00:59:15   so that we can make more money it's it's [TS]

00:59:18   basically like saying the only way for [TS]

00:59:20   us to grow is to extract more out of the [TS]

00:59:22   existing listener base remember what i [TS]

00:59:25   said earlier about the relative size of [TS]

00:59:27   the audience between podcasts and the [TS]

00:59:29   web a great podcast might get a few [TS]

00:59:33   hundred thousand downloads an episode [TS]

00:59:34   that would put it in like the top [TS]

00:59:36   probably five or one percent of podcasts [TS]

00:59:40   on the web that's nothing [TS]

00:59:42   if you want to grow your business as [TS]

00:59:44   podcasters the way for growth is to get [TS]

00:59:48   more people listening to podcasts and [TS]

00:59:50   then to get more people listening to [TS]

00:59:52   your podcast that's obvious like I don't [TS]

00:59:55   understand how anybody can look at the [TS]

00:59:58   situation now and say [TS]

00:59:58   situation now and say [TS]

01:00:00   well we need to grow that to really grow [TS]

01:00:03   this we're out we're just growing this [TS]

01:00:05   old model here we really need is add [TS]

01:00:07   tech lot [TS]

01:00:09   no you need more people listen to [TS]

01:00:11   podcasts you know how you do that it's [TS]

01:00:13   not by making podcasts suck [TS]

01:00:15   it's not by getting all creepy on people [TS]

01:00:18   and making I'm putting all this stuff in [TS]

01:00:20   their face [TS]

01:00:20   it's not by putting up a paywall sorry [TS]

01:00:22   grow the audience that's how that that's [TS]

01:00:25   the way for revenue growth possibly you [TS]

01:00:28   start doing all this data mining crap [TS]

01:00:30   when your ads don't work or when you [TS]

01:00:33   have saturated the audience you need to [TS]

01:00:35   find new ways to extract more of what [TS]

01:00:37   you have [TS]

01:00:38   we are neither of those things are true [TS]

01:00:39   for podcasting it's the opposite [TS]

01:00:41   podcasting has tons of room to grow it [TS]

01:00:44   is growing not as a hockey stick level [TS]

01:00:47   you know growth but it is steadily [TS]

01:00:48   growing over time there's tons of [TS]

01:00:50   potential to grow into especially as we [TS]

01:00:53   as we have further penetration of [TS]

01:00:55   bluetooth and cell phones and cars which [TS]

01:00:58   is where a lot of listening happens and [TS]

01:01:00   we have all these new like you know [TS]

01:01:01   cheap home speaker bluetooth devices [TS]

01:01:03   people to listen more home any of people [TS]

01:01:05   getting more and more into the habit of [TS]

01:01:06   listening to things on their smartphones [TS]

01:01:08   like there is tons of room for growth [TS]

01:01:11   here and there are so many people who [TS]

01:01:14   don't listen to podcast now that's where [TS]

01:01:16   you focus you focus your effort on [TS]

01:01:18   growing the pool your we're already [TS]

01:01:20   making great rates on the ads rates that [TS]

01:01:23   you know I just like when you expand [TS]

01:01:26   like coca-cola all these things were [TS]

01:01:28   like oh we have to expand the brand [TS]

01:01:29   everything ok so right now we have [TS]

01:01:31   mostly direct-response advertiser's this [TS]

01:01:33   is things like Squarespace they like [TS]

01:01:35   things were like you you you sign up for [TS]

01:01:37   a service or you buy a product and you [TS]

01:01:40   give them some kind of coupon or [TS]

01:01:41   discount code or visit a special URL and [TS]

01:01:44   they track how many people bought their [TS]

01:01:47   thing through each show which episode [TS]

01:01:49   URL and that kind of gives them an idea [TS]

01:01:51   of how many people might have heard the [TS]

01:01:53   ad and how much they are willing to pay [TS]

01:01:55   for future ads as a result of how much [TS]

01:01:56   they're making from their past adds all [TS]

01:01:58   these hot dogs articles about how much [TS]

01:02:00   we have to like you know move into brand [TS]

01:02:03   advertising they're all like well we [TS]

01:02:04   could keep hearing the same ads from [TS]

01:02:06   like Squarespace over and over again [TS]

01:02:07   ever wonder why they're not dumb [TS]

01:02:10   they're buying them because they work [TS]

01:02:12   really well and [TS]

01:02:13   whatever they're spending on the end of [TS]

01:02:14   each other said is a really nice and [TS]

01:02:16   helped by CPM whatever they're spending [TS]

01:02:19   on the ads they're making that back they [TS]

01:02:21   can see it in direct response [TS]

01:02:22   conversions and results [TS]

01:02:24   the reason why we have so many direct [TS]

01:02:27   response advertisers and why every [TS]

01:02:29   podcast for the most part does is [TS]

01:02:32   because they can directly measure the [TS]

01:02:35   value they see it and they say we want [TS]

01:02:38   more cuz these ads are working [TS]

01:02:39   ridiculously well [TS]

01:02:41   brand advertising things like oh we're [TS]

01:02:44   gonna focus working plastico can deliver [TS]

01:02:46   these billboards for the next 10 years [TS]

01:02:47   and hope that increases our margin [TS]

01:02:48   slightly brand advertising by definition [TS]

01:02:50   is almost impossible to measure it [TS]

01:02:54   basically goes unmeasured whenever he [TS]

01:02:56   was basically a shot in the dark here [TS]

01:02:57   people are just hoping that over time by [TS]

01:03:01   getting their logo and their name out [TS]

01:03:02   there and associating happy things with [TS]

01:03:05   their brand or whatever people start [TS]

01:03:06   recognizing their brand sales will [TS]

01:03:08   slowly increase as this recognition [TS]

01:03:09   build the web has developed such [TS]

01:03:11   incredibly sophisticated and creepy [TS]

01:03:13   levels of tracking and analytics and [TS]

01:03:15   behavioral monitoring and surveillance [TS]

01:03:17   that they can see to a much greater [TS]

01:03:20   degree what works and what doesn't [TS]

01:03:22   granddad's don't pay that much on the [TS]

01:03:24   web because they can see it's not [TS]

01:03:26   working when you saying you want brand [TS]

01:03:28   ads what you're really saying is we're [TS]

01:03:30   gonna sell brand ads because our eyes [TS]

01:03:32   don't work so we're gonna sell these to [TS]

01:03:34   you cope because we know you won't [TS]

01:03:35   really be able to measure well but coke [TS]

01:03:37   also isn't interested in the small [TS]

01:03:39   numbers and Squarespace maybe not [TS]

01:03:42   Squarespace but some other advertisers [TS]

01:03:43   that are basically are paying to acquire [TS]

01:03:46   new customers for some kind of [TS]

01:03:47   subscription plan may not be able to pay [TS]

01:03:49   like Coco pay more because brand [TS]

01:03:52   advertising is by definition a we want [TS]

01:03:55   the big numbers huge shotgun approach [TS]

01:03:57   that's the only type of advertising to [TS]

01:04:00   which this sort of general-purpose broad [TS]

01:04:01   demographic is actually desirable [TS]

01:04:04   because that's what we're gone for we [TS]

01:04:05   want everybody to know cause we don't [TS]

01:04:07   care who you are what you do what you're [TS]

01:04:08   interested in you need to know about [TS]

01:04:09   coal and it's awesome [TS]

01:04:11   they want the big numbers anything that [TS]

01:04:15   is acquiring customers even something [TS]

01:04:17   like a fracture whatever like it i don't [TS]

01:04:20   think that they that they're not gonna [TS]

01:04:22   they're not gonna keep the same CPM and [TS]

01:04:24   pay for a show that [TS]

01:04:25   give a hundred bringing people to [TS]

01:04:26   bankrupt the company right and they're [TS]

01:04:29   not interested they don't they're not [TS]

01:04:30   interested in spraying there I'd like [TS]

01:04:32   they'd be overpaying because only a [TS]

01:04:33   small fraction those people actually [TS]

01:04:35   interested in signing up would be much [TS]

01:04:36   better to go on a podcast where much [TS]

01:04:38   higher percentage of the people listen [TS]

01:04:40   are into digital photography and making [TS]

01:04:42   principal whatever you know so I I feel [TS]

01:04:44   like they want to get those big [TS]

01:04:46   advertisers because you know the the [TS]

01:04:47   number on the check is going to be [TS]

01:04:49   really big and the only people who are [TS]

01:04:50   going to write that check our people are [TS]

01:04:51   doing brand advertising and that's the [TS]

01:04:53   way you get again you know if you want [TS]

01:04:55   to get a new podcast that that has 200 [TS]

01:04:57   million downloads for every episode i [TS]

01:05:00   think brand advertising is your only [TS]

01:05:02   your only path to that and so they [TS]

01:05:04   they're trying to connect the dots to [TS]

01:05:06   make that meant by the way like I agree [TS]

01:05:08   that the the way you would get a big [TS]

01:05:10   podcast like that as you have to get [TS]

01:05:12   more people to the podcast but the best [TS]

01:05:13   way to do that is to keep podcast like [TS]

01:05:16   the web the reason everybody can and did [TS]

01:05:20   eventually come to use the web is [TS]

01:05:21   because it wasn't controlled by [TS]

01:05:23   Microsoft or Yahoo or whoever else like [TS]

01:05:26   it was a thing that anyone can implement [TS]

01:05:27   the web browser anyone can make a [TS]

01:05:29   website and no one company owns and [TS]

01:05:31   controls it [TS]

01:05:32   that's what let it spread everywhere if [TS]

01:05:34   you try to make apple the king of [TS]

01:05:36   podcast or Android the king of podcasts [TS]

01:05:38   or whatever you're narrowing the number [TS]

01:05:41   of people who can listen to podcast [TS]

01:05:42   especially if you pick somebody who has [TS]

01:05:44   a platform because again it's a you took [TS]

01:05:46   iOS or Android one of them became the [TS]

01:05:48   only thing then podcasting that matter [TS]

01:05:50   you're cutting off half of the market [TS]

01:05:52   right there [TS]

01:05:52   you want everybody to be able to listen [TS]

01:05:54   to podcast really easily on no matter [TS]

01:05:56   what device they have the whatever weird [TS]

01:05:58   thing they buy in their house or have on [TS]

01:06:01   their person or in their car or wherever [TS]

01:06:03   you want everybody listen to podcasts [TS]

01:06:05   like everybody can go to your website [TS]

01:06:06   the reason websites have huge amount of [TS]

01:06:08   traffic is because everybody can go to [TS]

01:06:11   websites that you doesn't you don't have [TS]

01:06:13   to have a special kind of computer or [TS]

01:06:14   special operating system or special [TS]

01:06:16   application or whatever essentially [TS]

01:06:18   every platform has some way to browse [TS]

01:06:20   the web and we're at that point with [TS]

01:06:23   podcast was just RSS anybody can make a [TS]

01:06:25   player for it for any applicant for any [TS]

01:06:27   type of thing [TS]

01:06:28   any move that big podcasts would do in [TS]

01:06:31   the hopes of getting like big brand [TS]

01:06:32   advertising or making a big podcast that [TS]

01:06:35   tried to make podcasting more more [TS]

01:06:38   narrow [TS]

01:06:39   in that way to shoot themselves in the [TS]

01:06:40   foot because the you know those people [TS]

01:06:42   are out there you want to make you want [TS]

01:06:44   to make them be able to listen to [TS]

01:06:45   podcast no matter where they are what [TS]

01:06:47   they're doing [TS]

01:06:47   do not make podcasting tied to a [TS]

01:06:49   particular store particular application [TS]

01:06:51   or anything like that we so dumb [TS]

01:06:52   this is the beginning of the ad we are [TS]

01:06:55   also sponsored this week by backblaze go [TS]

01:06:58   to backblaze dot-com / ATP for unlimited [TS]

01:07:02   on throttle native online backup for mac [TS]

01:07:06   and pc there's no credit card required [TS]

01:07:08   for 15 day free trial so check it out [TS]

01:07:10   today let me tell you why you need [TS]

01:07:11   online backup [TS]

01:07:12   there's so many things that can happen [TS]

01:07:14   to any backups you keep locally left [TS]

01:07:17   floods power church fire online backup [TS]

01:07:19   is a great insurance policy against this [TS]

01:07:21   kind of risk and it's really convenient [TS]

01:07:23   to so for instance you can do things [TS]

01:07:25   like oh you know what I forgot this one [TS]

01:07:27   spreadsheet is working on let me log in [TS]

01:07:29   the back was pulled off their will on my [TS]

01:07:30   trip and you can get it on your phone [TS]

01:07:31   your tablet or your laptop it's great i [TS]

01:07:34   used for that a lot [TS]

01:07:35   very very nice i have used many online [TS]

01:07:37   backup services back places the 1i stick [TS]

01:07:40   with I was a customer of theirs before [TS]

01:07:42   they were sponsor it is so great we have [TS]

01:07:44   combined something like 5 45 terabytes [TS]

01:07:48   of data backed up to back plays because [TS]

01:07:50   unlimited five bucks per month per [TS]

01:07:53   computer and we have we have like five [TS]

01:07:55   terabytes in there so far it is crazy [TS]

01:07:58   how good backblaze is and in my [TS]

01:08:01   experience how much better it is in the [TS]

01:08:02   competition that place is great you can [TS]

01:08:04   do restores either on the web or even if [TS]

01:08:07   you want to have the mail you a hard [TS]

01:08:09   drive you can do that they will [TS]

01:08:10   overnight you a hard drive all your data [TS]

01:08:12   on if you don't wanna wait for a big [TS]

01:08:13   download and if you return one of those [TS]

01:08:16   drives by mail within 30 days to get a [TS]

01:08:19   refund for the dr see it's basically a [TS]

01:08:21   free store with a male hard drive which [TS]

01:08:22   is really great [TS]

01:08:24   they already have over 200 petabytes of [TS]

01:08:26   data stored from for their customers [TS]

01:08:28   they restored over 10 billion files and [TS]

01:08:31   this is a great insurance policy and you [TS]

01:08:34   know I online backup because you know [TS]

01:08:36   you have this a little bit additional [TS]

01:08:37   overhead of restoring and I still do [TS]

01:08:39   recommend having a local backup [TS]

01:08:41   something like time machine or a [TS]

01:08:42   super-duper clone or something like that [TS]

01:08:43   but having back plays as well for that [TS]

01:08:46   the just in case and the convenience of [TS]

01:08:49   the remote access i do recommend that [TS]

01:08:51   and I do it myself and it's [TS]

01:08:52   fantastic so check out there is no [TS]

01:08:54   gimmicks there's no charges five bucks [TS]

01:08:56   per month per computer for unlimited [TS]

01:08:58   under throttled off-site online backup [TS]

01:09:01   go to backpage.com / ATP and you'll get [TS]

01:09:04   a free 15-day trial thanks a lot of back [TS]

01:09:07   plays this is the end of the end so we [TS]

01:09:09   talked about an episode or two ago how I [TS]

01:09:12   felt like it's been trendy to dislike [TS]

01:09:14   the apple watch well it's been trendy to [TS]

01:09:18   really really really freaking love the [TS]

01:09:20   Amazon echo i do not have one [TS]

01:09:23   I don't I don't know that I've ever yet [TS]

01:09:25   I mean sure probably I've never seen one [TS]

01:09:29   in person to my recollection but [TS]

01:09:31   everyone that I know swears by it loves [TS]

01:09:33   it cetera and so it seems like [TS]

01:09:35   everyone's getting really infatuated [TS]

01:09:36   with voice-based control and the people [TS]

01:09:40   who did [TS]

01:09:42   serie which was the the you know that [TS]

01:09:44   software was eventually brought up by [TS]

01:09:45   Apple and and i believe the company was [TS]

01:09:47   as well so a lot of the x-series people [TS]

01:09:51   have gone on to create a live which is [TS]

01:09:55   kind of the spiritual successor to Siri [TS]

01:09:57   and they demoed it on monday now I [TS]

01:09:59   didn't have the time to watch the video [TS]

01:10:00   but my understanding was this was [TS]

01:10:03   something pretty darn impressive [TS]

01:10:04   impressive if you don't think about it [TS]

01:10:07   too much I guess [TS]

01:10:08   hey what do you say that oh I have hound [TS]

01:10:11   I seem that the the things I don't maybe [TS]

01:10:14   maybe it only bothers people like me but [TS]

01:10:17   on the flip side but I think none of [TS]

01:10:21   these things are up to the point where [TS]

01:10:22   they pass the regular person thresholds [TS]

01:10:27   of of magic because as we discussed many [TS]

01:10:30   times in the past with Syria the problem [TS]

01:10:31   with Syrian things like that is you'll [TS]

01:10:34   see when you have any kid you serious [TS]

01:10:35   five seconds people immediately jump to [TS]

01:10:37   all this is a little person in my [TS]

01:10:38   computer but obviously it's not and as [TS]

01:10:41   soon as they discover the very real and [TS]

01:10:43   very close limits of any of these things [TS]

01:10:45   though it breaks the illusion it's like [TS]

01:10:47   oh i thought this was like a little [TS]

01:10:49   person on my computer I could talk to [TS]

01:10:50   instead of just crappy program that's [TS]

01:10:53   like basically boils down to like [TS]

01:10:55   playing a text adventure game where you [TS]

01:10:57   have to learn the syntax and what you [TS]

01:10:58   can say what you can't say and it's [TS]

01:11:01   disappointing disappointing people know [TS]

01:11:02   they kind of put in a bin with I thought [TS]

01:11:05   it was going to be [TS]

01:11:05   this magical thing where I can talk to a [TS]

01:11:07   person in my phone really it's just like [TS]

01:11:09   the voice version of the command line [TS]

01:11:11   where I have to learn the things that it [TS]

01:11:15   can do first of all I have to learn the [TS]

01:11:16   ways i can say the things that it can do [TS]

01:11:18   and granted there are many ways that you [TS]

01:11:20   can say it may be more than the average [TS]

01:11:22   sex adventure but probably about the [TS]

01:11:23   same as in any good text adventure and [TS]

01:11:25   the new demo is like showing off context [TS]

01:11:28   like what kinda remembers last thing I [TS]

01:11:30   said to it so I can refer back to it [TS]

01:11:31   using you know if I as long as I use the [TS]

01:11:33   right words and their the it will [TS]

01:11:36   understand what I'm talking about and [TS]

01:11:37   build on my past conversations and it's [TS]

01:11:39   like I'm having a conversation if you [TS]

01:11:40   see a demo with the preset script it is [TS]

01:11:44   it seems to be very impressive until you [TS]

01:11:45   realize there is only a very small [TS]

01:11:48   number of things that you can ask about [TS]

01:11:50   and those things aren't always [TS]

01:11:52   interesting [TS]

01:11:54   do you like it's because you want to ask [TS]

01:11:56   about facts that you can put a wall from [TS]

01:11:58   Alfre or uh things having to do with the [TS]

01:12:01   weather or date and time or unit [TS]

01:12:03   conversions then you can have this [TS]

01:12:04   amazing but extremely boring [TS]

01:12:06   conversation about stuff that you don't [TS]

01:12:08   really care about but if you really want [TS]

01:12:09   to know something more complicated [TS]

01:12:12   you better hope that's within the [TS]

01:12:14   problem and i'm not saying that these [TS]

01:12:15   are bad products i think they're amazing [TS]

01:12:16   we need to keep advancing on some it's [TS]

01:12:18   great but I get like i said as soon as [TS]

01:12:19   you have a voice talking to you or they [TS]

01:12:20   can understand what you're saying people [TS]

01:12:22   immediately jump to this is how 9000 or [TS]

01:12:25   like it it's a little person but it's [TS]

01:12:27   totally and all the person it's so far [TS]

01:12:29   from that that there's always the [TS]

01:12:31   inevitable let down so as we continue to [TS]

01:12:35   march their progress there I'm you know [TS]

01:12:38   I think that's good but this this slight [TS]

01:12:40   diversion with Eve and river however you [TS]

01:12:42   want to say and all those other ones [TS]

01:12:44   bothers me as the type of person who [TS]

01:12:47   like reads the wire cutter or Marcus [TS]

01:12:50   headphones reviews or markers lightbulb [TS]

01:12:52   reviews or anything like that and that [TS]

01:12:53   the the very boldly stated business [TS]

01:12:57   model of these companies is will make [TS]

01:13:00   deals with other companies so you can [TS]

01:13:01   say you know have a piece of delivered [TS]

01:13:03   to my house at 5pm and also send flowers [TS]

01:13:05   to my mom for Mother's Day you like wow [TS]

01:13:07   what an amazing demo it's like having a [TS]

01:13:09   personal assistant but you don't get to [TS]

01:13:10   pick what pizza it is or what company [TS]

01:13:13   sends the flowers the company they that [TS]

01:13:16   makes the product that you're talking to [TS]

01:13:17   does deals with Domino [TS]

01:13:19   and proflowers and that's what gets sent [TS]

01:13:21   not because those are the best flowers [TS]

01:13:23   or because your assistant knows the best [TS]

01:13:24   flowers to get for your mom or the kind [TS]

01:13:26   of pieces that you like but because [TS]

01:13:28   these are the deals the company whose [TS]

01:13:30   voice agent that you're talking to me [TS]

01:13:32   you know made partnerships with and so [TS]

01:13:35   their incentives are all screwed up [TS]

01:13:37   their incentives of the supposed [TS]

01:13:38   personal assistant is not to help you [TS]

01:13:40   get the things that you want in your [TS]

01:13:42   life it's to dutifully follow through on [TS]

01:13:45   the business deals that the companies [TS]

01:13:46   made and all these companies are looking [TS]

01:13:47   for we make this thing so sticky that [TS]

01:13:49   people love talking to it and just like [TS]

01:13:50   rely on it as part of their life then we [TS]

01:13:53   can charge people a lot of money to you [TS]

01:13:56   know like the same way that Google in [TS]

01:13:57   charge money for service we got [TS]

01:13:58   everybody typing into our searchbox now [TS]

01:14:00   all of a sudden you buy you buy [TS]

01:14:01   advertising keywords or search keywords [TS]

01:14:04   for us it's very bad with everybody [TS]

01:14:06   there's all the pizza ordering then we [TS]

01:14:08   can charge whatever pizza company a lot [TS]

01:14:09   of mind as I did you one of the pizza [TS]

01:14:11   Steve Pizza comedy films pizza request [TS]

01:14:13   but you know obviously people like me [TS]

01:14:16   and I think a lot of people kind of care [TS]

01:14:18   where their pizza comes from maybe they [TS]

01:14:19   don't care so much about where the [TS]

01:14:20   flowers come from but that the model [TS]

01:14:23   that that they should be presenting is [TS]

01:14:25   here is artificially intelligent agent [TS]

01:14:28   or whatever the agents move good [TS]

01:14:30   nineties apple thing that knowledge [TS]

01:14:32   navigator can help your life it's [TS]

01:14:34   supposed to be helping me it's supposed [TS]

01:14:36   to be like I wanted to do things that [TS]

01:14:37   you know if it's going to save me work i [TS]

01:14:39   would go and figure out what's the best [TS]

01:14:41   dishwasher is and what the comparative [TS]

01:14:43   features are and stuff like that or you [TS]

01:14:45   know i would if i move into a new area I [TS]

01:14:47   would you know troll reviews to try to [TS]

01:14:50   find out where two people like you know [TS]

01:14:51   that the best pizzeria you know like [TS]

01:14:53   ratings are like I wanted to figure out [TS]

01:14:56   what I want in my life [TS]

01:14:58   what my needs are and follow through on [TS]

01:14:59   that but I don't know if there's money [TS]

01:15:00   to be made in that because we're not [TS]

01:15:02   willing to pay for that service so [TS]

01:15:03   someone's gotta pay and the people who [TS]

01:15:04   are paying his dominoes and you're gonna [TS]

01:15:06   get a stupid domino's pizza so you get [TS]

01:15:09   what you deserve you right and it's just [TS]

01:15:11   it's it's misaligned incentives but I [TS]

01:15:13   don't know the way out of it because [TS]

01:15:14   align incentives would be you pay me [TS]

01:15:16   five dollars a month for the privilege [TS]

01:15:17   of using a series of even know who wants [TS]

01:15:20   to do that either because they're not [TS]

01:15:21   good enough for five dollars a month [TS]

01:15:22   it's like now I'll just do the web [TS]

01:15:24   search myself well just go to the wire [TS]

01:15:25   cutter myself right so I don't know how [TS]

01:15:27   you get you find your way out of this it [TS]

01:15:30   could be i don't i don't know [TS]

01:15:32   it could be that most people are fine [TS]

01:15:33   with that they're like I don't really [TS]

01:15:34   want to know or care what deals you make [TS]

01:15:36   behind the scenes as long as somebody [TS]

01:15:38   comes to pick up pick up my package [TS]

01:15:40   I don't care what they ship it by or [TS]

01:15:42   anything like just they don't they're [TS]

01:15:44   not as picky the not reading reviews [TS]

01:15:45   about your lightbulbs right there just [TS]

01:15:47   like whatever [TS]

01:15:48   it's just convenient for me to be able [TS]

01:15:49   to do this and I don't really care what [TS]

01:15:51   company or product is involved and I [TS]

01:15:53   don't care what deals are made behind [TS]

01:15:55   the scenes and I don't care that my [TS]

01:15:57   needs aren't the most primary thing is a [TS]

01:15:58   service like a free it's built into my [TS]

01:16:00   phone or yelled into the air and Amazon [TS]

01:16:02   echo does it I don't care that all the [TS]

01:16:04   products are filled through amazon or [TS]

01:16:05   you know like it's like pushing the [TS]

01:16:07   buttons of paper towels [TS]

01:16:08   you know you get the pic was a mother [TS]

01:16:10   has a wide right but I don't care they [TS]

01:16:11   all come from amazon maybe those people [TS]

01:16:13   are fine with that but for me personally [TS]

01:16:15   I don't like it and i also think that [TS]

01:16:17   the misaligned incentives will just [TS]

01:16:21   become a larger and larger problem until [TS]

01:16:24   unless these services we can actually [TS]

01:16:26   become so good that people are willing [TS]

01:16:28   to pay for them because once you pay [TS]

01:16:29   five dollars a month to have a personal [TS]

01:16:30   assistant you could just shout orders to [TS]

01:16:32   and we do stuff and was not actually a [TS]

01:16:34   person you didn't have to like care [TS]

01:16:35   about their feelings and well-being or [TS]

01:16:37   anything like that's the dream of an [TS]

01:16:38   artificial intelligent personal [TS]

01:16:40   assistant for every movie about the [TS]

01:16:41   future regions yell things into the air [TS]

01:16:42   and things get done and what you love an [TS]

01:16:44   assistant learned more about you about [TS]

01:16:46   what you like and what you dislike and [TS]

01:16:48   did the research for you and [TS]

01:16:49   collaborated with other agents and you [TS]

01:16:51   know just sort of asked your reaction to [TS]

01:16:53   the meal you're just eating and instead [TS]

01:16:54   of you having to put a star right like [TS]

01:16:56   that's the magical future we think about [TS]

01:16:58   it I think everyone's going to pay for [TS]

01:16:59   that because paying for an actual [TS]

01:17:01   personal systems and do all that stuff [TS]

01:17:02   is really expensive five dollars a month [TS]

01:17:04   looks like a bargain but we're not there [TS]

01:17:06   yet the process just aren't that good so [TS]

01:17:08   in the meantime dominoes will be paying [TS]

01:17:10   them to deliver you execrable piece of [TS]

01:17:12   your house I love that like you that [TS]

01:17:14   your dream scenario here is that you [TS]

01:17:18   that you can basically have a virtual [TS]

01:17:20   person who is totally basically your [TS]

01:17:22   slave and you can be a jerk to it's not [TS]

01:17:25   actually a person just a computer but [TS]

01:17:27   you don't be a jerk to but you also [TS]

01:17:29   don't have to like worry about like you [TS]

01:17:31   know they don't don't sleep don't eat [TS]

01:17:33   don't get annoyed when you're frustrated [TS]

01:17:35   don't get in order to yell but like [TS]

01:17:36   that's why we use computers because we [TS]

01:17:38   don't have to have this constant like [TS]

01:17:39   we're not but we're not trying to [TS]

01:17:41   emotionally support our computers most [TS]

01:17:42   of the time [TS]

01:17:43   we just want them to do what we tell [TS]

01:17:44   them to do when we do it is their [TS]

01:17:46   machines and they're not people right [TS]

01:17:47   and that's the dream of having the [TS]

01:17:50   computers you know just think it's not [TS]

01:17:52   as a personal assistant but rather think [TS]

01:17:53   of it as like the using using a computer [TS]

01:17:57   without having to sit in front of a [TS]

01:17:59   computer and click on things are [TS]

01:18:00   touchscreen or type things in just [TS]

01:18:01   talking to the air and then somewhere [TS]

01:18:03   else the computer is doing your thing [TS]

01:18:04   and and the whole machine learning angle [TS]

01:18:06   like the same way a personal assistant [TS]

01:18:09   would learn your preferences and [TS]

01:18:11   everything that's what computers are [TS]

01:18:12   great lots of netflix is greater by [TS]

01:18:14   seeing what we watch and we have to help [TS]

01:18:16   with a silly way of hitting stars and [TS]

01:18:17   stuff but eventually netflix it's good [TS]

01:18:18   to think i think you will like this [TS]

01:18:20   movie based on movies you've seen in the [TS]

01:18:22   past and have like it's incredibly [TS]

01:18:26   primitive compared to what we could do [TS]

01:18:27   if we had a conversational long-term [TS]

01:18:29   relationship with a you know a [TS]

01:18:32   voice-controlled thing that was on our [TS]

01:18:34   side and was entirely made to try to [TS]

01:18:36   make our lives better but again that [TS]

01:18:39   there's no there's no business model [TS]

01:18:40   that the textile isn't quite there but i [TS]

01:18:42   feel like i can get there eventually and [TS]

01:18:43   once we do [TS]

01:18:44   someone is going to get five dollars a [TS]

01:18:46   month from hell of a lot of people when [TS]

01:18:47   that becomes good enough [TS]

01:18:49   well but it doesn't have to be that it's [TS]

01:18:51   five dollars a month I mean it could be [TS]

01:18:53   that this future Syria or what have you [TS]

01:18:57   it takes a cut of whatever it [TS]

01:19:00   facilitates a sale for so but that's a [TS]

01:19:02   distance it hasn't sent revised to make [TS]

01:19:04   deals with the put the highest bidder [TS]

01:19:06   who makes crappy pizza irregular [TS]

01:19:08   heartbeats a problem for perhaps the [TS]

01:19:10   first of all domino's pizza is not [TS]

01:19:11   crappy second of all my god it's so bad [TS]

01:19:14   what are you talking about her job [TS]

01:19:15   yeah I'm with John sorry Casey that's [TS]

01:19:17   that's all you'll excuse us oh well [TS]

01:19:19   you're way too snooty anyway the point [TS]

01:19:21   is that II why couldn't we have a [TS]

01:19:24   hypothetical conversation where I say [TS]

01:19:26   see that like a pizza please [TS]

01:19:27   sure where would you like it from papa [TS]

01:19:30   johns or dominoes or what having [TS]

01:19:32   presumably would have to be some [TS]

01:19:33   national chain so I'm not it's not going [TS]

01:19:34   to happen but then how do you get paid [TS]

01:19:36   how does that service get paid you think [TS]

01:19:37   it's just taking a cut of that because [TS]

01:19:38   they were really kind of like Grandpop [TS]

01:19:40   or whatever like they have to kind of [TS]

01:19:41   opt-in the money's gotta come from [TS]

01:19:42   somewhere because unless you want to pay [TS]

01:19:43   extra for that pizza and like have this [TS]

01:19:45   you know series surcharge of experts [TS]

01:19:48   group of so freaking expensive like this [TS]

01:19:50   lots of services that kind of do a small [TS]

01:19:51   portion of what we would imagine beaver [TS]

01:19:53   serie doing but all of them the [TS]

01:19:55   incentive is this is great if you have [TS]

01:19:57   money to burn and you can't be bothered [TS]

01:19:59   to go someplace and you don't want your [TS]

01:20:00   food being cold by the time it gets here [TS]

01:20:02   you don't mind waiting a long time after [TS]

01:20:03   time doesn't work like this there's so [TS]

01:20:05   many caveat but the the money is a big [TS]

01:20:07   deterrent five dollars a month for the [TS]

01:20:11   blanket service of essentially just [TS]

01:20:12   connecting the dots the things that you [TS]

01:20:13   could do themselves that works [TS]

01:20:15   financially if you have enough people do [TS]

01:20:16   it as does dominoes being the exclusive [TS]

01:20:19   will bring you a crappy pizza provider [TS]

01:20:21   but I feel like the percentage of [TS]

01:20:22   everything is just back to the group [TS]

01:20:23   model and its yeah that's that has [TS]

01:20:27   proven to be good for you know in my day [TS]

01:20:31   we'd set ups but like be good for people [TS]

01:20:34   who with high paying jobs and not a lot [TS]

01:20:36   of time and and and more money my money [TS]

01:20:40   is less important to them than their [TS]

01:20:41   time and so they do that and even those [TS]

01:20:43   things you kind of like yeah sometimes [TS]

01:20:45   that just it's more worth of you to go [TS]

01:20:47   there yourself another thing I don't [TS]

01:20:48   know everyone needs try to would any of [TS]

01:20:50   us would anyone order pizza in that way [TS]

01:20:52   even if you would like to help if you [TS]

01:20:55   could tell the store that but it charge [TS]

01:20:57   you twenty percent on top of that would [TS]

01:20:58   you order pizza that way I mean it was [TS]

01:21:01   in a position where I didn't want to sit [TS]

01:21:03   down at a computer or an ipad and iphone [TS]

01:21:05   and I just wanted to within 30 seconds [TS]

01:21:08   say hey see get me over i forgot i can't [TS]

01:21:11   say that I'm sorry wants to it might be [TS]

01:21:13   fit huh yeah what was that upgrade a [TS]

01:21:17   hotel huh [TS]

01:21:18   thank you i want to say aloha a hotel [TS]

01:21:20   finally get me outta here get me a pizza [TS]

01:21:24   a large pepperoni no pineapple pizza [TS]

01:21:28   from dominos delivered to my house your [TS]

01:21:31   bad taste continues like you're in favor [TS]

01:21:34   of this bolt serie pepperoni and [TS]

01:21:36   pineapple [TS]

01:21:37   I all have not tried every and pineapple [TS]

01:21:40   yet but i do like pineapple and ham [TS]

01:21:42   I and I don't get that a lot of New [TS]

01:21:43   Yorkers don't really do it here because [TS]

01:21:45   it's not canonical John but but i do [TS]

01:21:47   enjoy that combo when I can get it but [TS]

01:21:51   yeah I normally I mean I like pepperoni [TS]

01:21:52   and pineapple so you know there was a [TS]

01:21:55   ham and pineapple discussion but i'm not [TS]

01:21:57   sure if it's on a podcast that has yet [TS]

01:21:58   to be released did you hear me talk [TS]

01:22:00   about Hawaiian pizza on a podcast if not [TS]

01:22:02   i haven't been released so I don't spoil [TS]

01:22:04   it I did hear you talk about it i forget [TS]

01:22:06   which shows it was on [TS]

01:22:08   yeah same here it might even when you [TS]

01:22:09   get an upgraded you do that recently [TS]

01:22:11   right yeah maybe that was it but anyway [TS]

01:22:13   uh yeah I don't wanna get into it is so [TS]

01:22:15   the point is the point is the point is [TS]

01:22:17   casey has terrible taste in pizza so his [TS]

01:22:19   answer to this question is irrelevant or [TS]

01:22:21   whatever if you see you Marco and john / [TS]

01:22:24   you switch the hamburgers if you need to [TS]

01:22:26   know because then I'm gonna tell you I [TS]

01:22:28   think Wendy's is just fine then you [TS]

01:22:29   gotta bust my balls about that too and [TS]

01:22:31   whatever like this have a barbecue [TS]

01:22:33   oh it would you get from dallas BBQ [TS]

01:22:35   because it doesn't matter [TS]

01:22:36   oh really well barbeques barbeque I mean [TS]

01:22:38   just nostalgia barbecues fine but for [TS]

01:22:41   all these things like this you know if [TS]

01:22:42   the money is going to become taking your [TS]

01:22:43   cut somebody's gotta come from somewhere [TS]

01:22:44   so it's got to be a surcharge right [TS]

01:22:46   because I unless you is you have to have [TS]

01:22:48   deals if you're going to take a cut like [TS]

01:22:50   the price remains the same but they [TS]

01:22:51   caught us in you have to have that deals [TS]

01:22:53   for that if you don't then you just have [TS]

01:22:54   to add a surcharge because then you [TS]

01:22:56   don't need deals on either end but the [TS]

01:22:57   surcharges usually pretty significant [TS]

01:23:00   and that's in addition to whatever the [TS]

01:23:02   additional things that charging you to [TS]

01:23:03   deliver it plus tip and all that other [TS]

01:23:04   stuff that's the thing exactly though [TS]

01:23:06   because the delivery surcharge is a [TS]

01:23:08   surcharge you could if you wanted to get [TS]

01:23:12   in your car or ride your bike or walk or [TS]

01:23:14   what have you and go fetch your pizza [TS]

01:23:16   but sometimes you just want the [TS]

01:23:19   convenience of this move me old [TS]

01:23:21   magically showing up at your doorstep [TS]

01:23:23   I personally cannot imagine a time where [TS]

01:23:25   i would want to say hey uh why telephone [TS]

01:23:29   get me a Domino's large pizza but there [TS]

01:23:32   are certainly people in the world that [TS]

01:23:34   may be willing to pay a dollar or two or [TS]

01:23:37   whatever the case may be to alway [TS]

01:23:39   telephone themselves a pizza [TS]

01:23:41   I mean they're dominoes let you order [TS]

01:23:43   pizza with emoji by some mechanism never [TS]

01:23:45   tried so I would imagine that there are [TS]

01:23:47   people that are doing that 20 wonder why [TS]

01:23:49   dominance has to make it so easy to [TS]

01:23:51   order pizza [TS]

01:23:53   you don't find anything you want to [TS]

01:23:55   believe dominoes as gross that's fine [TS]

01:23:57   all i know is what you know just listen [TS]

01:23:59   to the forthcoming episode of analog [TS]

01:24:00   where we probably won't cut the [TS]

01:24:02   discussion about people that are too [TS]

01:24:04   good for chain restaurants and how much [TS]

01:24:06   I hate all of them which is basically [TS]

01:24:08   everyone in the chat room and the two of [TS]

01:24:09   you there are good chain restaurants [TS]

01:24:11   there just are very few good chain pizza [TS]

01:24:13   restaurants and i think most would be [TS]

01:24:15   local chains that you wouldn't have [TS]

01:24:17   heard of but it's fine that's fine [TS]

01:24:19   also if you're going to have changed [TS]

01:24:21   pizza I'm [TS]

01:24:21   sure dominoes even the best one of those [TS]

01:24:23   what would it be [TS]

01:24:25   I was always a bigger fan of like the [TS]

01:24:27   really crappy ones like little caesars [TS]

01:24:28   or bus to hunt because like because like [TS]

01:24:31   if you're gonna go with some really [TS]

01:24:33   crappy big grand pizza [TS]

01:24:36   you might as well go like super crappy [TS]

01:24:38   and get like all the junk food value of [TS]

01:24:40   it i feel like i would get something [TS]

01:24:43   frozen from the supermarket before I [TS]

01:24:45   would take delivery from any change yeah [TS]

01:24:47   i did i did a lot of those to make a lot [TS]

01:24:48   of like that and those are not good [TS]

01:24:50   don't get me wrong they're terrible [TS]

01:24:51   that's how bad i think the delivery is [TS]

01:24:53   it would take a red baron pizza / [TS]

01:24:56   dominoes not not red baron but maybe [TS]

01:24:58   something else [TS]

01:24:59   what is the thing it's not delivery its [TS]

01:25:01   DiGiorno when that marketing werks night [TS]

01:25:03   I don't know what kind of be like a [TS]

01:25:05   matchup like even and anyway like we [TS]

01:25:09   should've got into the pit stop and what [TS]

01:25:11   always it's going good [TS]

01:25:12   why it was so moving on your imagine no [TS]

01:25:15   I can't get past this i can't imagine a [TS]

01:25:18   world where somebody says man I'd really [TS]

01:25:21   like some pizza and I'd like to get [TS]

01:25:24   dominos and he in you have to be like mm [TS]

01:25:27   dominoes is not good enough for me [TS]

01:25:29   I'm sorry we're gonna have to go [TS]

01:25:30   somewhere else well you know sometimes [TS]

01:25:32   you have these things you don't like but [TS]

01:25:34   i think its arm even if this is more of [TS]

01:25:36   an issue of me even when Marco sings [TS]

01:25:37   market like he has his fancy coffee [TS]

01:25:39   right but when he's on the road will get [TS]

01:25:40   starbucks yeah precisely when I'm on the [TS]

01:25:42   road i will I would be the equivalent of [TS]

01:25:44   me is I would choose not to have coffee [TS]

01:25:46   sometimes i do like that's the level on [TS]

01:25:48   that with it same thing with pizza bagel [TS]

01:25:50   I just don't get a pizza if I can't get [TS]

01:25:53   good pizza and it's fine i eat something [TS]

01:25:55   else and if someone else gets bad we [TS]

01:25:56   don't eat it you know you got to eat to [TS]

01:25:58   stay alive right it'sit's not but I will [TS]

01:25:59   never choose it like it whereas Marco [TS]

01:26:01   because he's addicted will choose to get [TS]

01:26:03   our weapons because it's like well it's [TS]

01:26:05   better than no coffee but no it's not [TS]

01:26:07   better than no pizza no pizza beats [TS]

01:26:09   Domino's Pizza my God if I listeners if [TS]

01:26:12   I ever get to the point that I'm this [TS]

01:26:14   fussy about freaking anything it's not [TS]

01:26:16   it's not funny it's just like it's just [TS]

01:26:18   a preference like i don't i don't [TS]

01:26:19   consider it the same category of food [TS]

01:26:21   it's like i'll just pick a different [TS]

01:26:22   plenty of kind of foods to choose from [TS]

01:26:24   like I'm not that picky about burgers [TS]

01:26:25   right I'll many more options for burgers [TS]

01:26:28   including ones from chains and lots of [TS]

01:26:29   things from change but when it comes to [TS]

01:26:30   pizza i will just pick a different food [TS]

01:26:32   product that i don't think it's being [TS]

01:26:34   bob is just kind of like that i don't i [TS]

01:26:36   don't like that doesn't taste good to me [TS]

01:26:38   i don't want it and I don't need it for [TS]

01:26:40   chemical reason so i will just pick [TS]

01:26:42   something else like a I don't have a [TS]

01:26:44   sandwich from subway then bad pizza [TS]

01:26:46   I don't know what that sandwich from [TS]

01:26:48   subway are are probably the bottom rung [TS]

01:26:51   of things that you can call sandwich but [TS]

01:26:52   we watched as people know the chat room [TS]

01:26:54   we've lost the dominoes brand [TS]

01:26:56   sponsorship for losing the subway / and [TS]

01:26:57   sponsorship from the show that this is [TS]

01:26:59   why we can't have brand advertisers and [TS]

01:27:01   podcasts before he pissed off all the [TS]

01:27:03   brain will take Waffle House sponsorship [TS]

01:27:04   so because they embrace what they are [TS]

01:27:08   it was more of a steak and shake person [TS]

01:27:09   myself over waffle house I don't even [TS]

01:27:11   understand why subway so bad you're [TS]

01:27:13   watching the created in front of you you [TS]

01:27:16   don't understand why subway as bad [TS]

01:27:18   please can you stop please don't know [TS]

01:27:20   I'm I'm trying I'm trying to trying to [TS]

01:27:22   help you here do not know i just want [TS]

01:27:25   your players not until you want to die [TS]

01:27:26   on just now finally I'm not saying that [TS]

01:27:28   it's the hill wanna die I don't want [TS]

01:27:30   your help i want to be able to go to any [TS]

01:27:32   friggin restaurant I want and be [TS]

01:27:34   genuinely happy with the meal I've had I [TS]

01:27:36   have gone to subway although not lately [TS]

01:27:38   and been genuinely happy with me off hat [TS]

01:27:40   are there better sandwiches in the world [TS]

01:27:42   absofreakinlutely does that count as a [TS]

01:27:44   restaurant the show please I haven't [TS]

01:27:48   been this angry you too since the mac [TS]

01:27:49   pro discussions we could just if i ever [TS]

01:27:55   get this policy and high maintenance [TS]

01:27:56   just kicked me in the shins what vodka [TS]

01:27:58   would you drink AZ would you drink that [TS]

01:28:00   they hit the big handle of like the [TS]

01:28:01   cheap Russian whatever vodka that comes [TS]

01:28:03   in the plastic bottle would you think [TS]

01:28:04   that they just going to run through [TS]

01:28:05   brita filters and it's fine [TS]

01:28:07   they had that job for you didn't you [TS]

01:28:11   you're privy to this because this stupid [TS]

01:28:12   stupid secret of vodka is that did you [TS]

01:28:15   know that whatever i saw that i don't [TS]

01:28:16   know i don't think i don't think about [TS]

01:28:17   the boards i saw that thing with the [TS]

01:28:19   filters like all right everyone who [TS]

01:28:20   filled with vodka is just I thought [TS]

01:28:22   those BS III don't exactly you're free [TS]

01:28:24   to but I thought that was BS maybe it is [TS]

01:28:25   BS i might be wrong i'm entirely willing [TS]

01:28:29   to believe it especially without [TS]

01:28:31   all of the first few drinks anyway you [TS]

01:28:32   can just like secretly switched the crap [TS]

01:28:34   yourself at home Care's well that's [TS]

01:28:35   convenient here's the thing like I would [TS]

01:28:37   absolutely choose a fussy vodka like [TS]

01:28:39   Tito's if I had the choice but if I [TS]

01:28:41   don't have the choice or if I'm or like [TS]

01:28:44   a rail broadcast on happy hour you know [TS]

01:28:45   you do is put a couple lemons in there [TS]

01:28:47   wait a second for to get a little bit [TS]

01:28:48   watered down with a little bit of lemon [TS]

01:28:50   in it and then you are fine i prefer the [TS]

01:28:53   titos for sure but I am perfectly happy [TS]

01:28:55   with a slightly watered down slightly [TS]

01:28:57   lemony vodka and I am and I'd be happier [TS]

01:29:00   about that having saved a bunch of money [TS]

01:29:02   off getting a real one instead of a [TS]

01:29:04   Tito's I i would be happy with that [TS]

01:29:07   although you that is the best example of [TS]

01:29:09   heard so far me being fussy wouldn't you [TS]

01:29:11   ruin like a $13 profilter by converting [TS]

01:29:15   your cheaper market into $13 more [TS]

01:29:17   expensive vodka and a snowman you still [TS]

01:29:20   come out ahead of you run it through [TS]

01:29:21   enough times that so its equivalent like [TS]

01:29:23   the five-hundred-dollar bottle is there [TS]

01:29:25   five more vodka is like it's not good [TS]

01:29:27   i'm sure there is i'm absolutely sure [TS]

01:29:29   there is other absolutely and i should [TS]

01:29:31   also note that my fussy vodka Tito's is [TS]

01:29:33   like the cheapest of the fussy vodkas [TS]

01:29:36   which is part of the reason why I like [TS]

01:29:37   it so much [TS]

01:29:38   remember when when you when you were [TS]

01:29:40   coming over and we bought a bottle so [TS]

01:29:41   that you would not you know judge our [TS]

01:29:43   vaca collection so judge of things [TS]

01:29:45   no I remember being very surprised how [TS]

01:29:47   expensive was because the way you talked [TS]

01:29:49   about it I thought it would be like a [TS]

01:29:50   really premium priced one but no turns [TS]

01:29:53   out vodka just terrible nobody president [TS]

01:29:55   very high it's not terrible you gin [TS]

01:29:57   drinker you are didn't gin drinker [TS]

01:29:59   aren't you know how's your grass tastes [TS]

01:30:01   like I i occasionally drink in i had not [TS]

01:30:04   by itself and I i prefer gin-based [TS]

01:30:06   drinks like martinis to drinking it [TS]

01:30:08   straight but oh god a gin martini i [TS]

01:30:11   forgot i I'm not that much of a little [TS]

01:30:12   person I I much prefer either not [TS]

01:30:14   drinking or drinking beer i'll see like [TS]

01:30:16   to drink your bread i understand i'm [TS]

01:30:20   gonna get so much angry email i'm gonna [TS]

01:30:22   have to quit the show it's gonna be the [TS]

01:30:24   worst i don't know i tried to help me [TS]

01:30:25   with the subway think it's not too late [TS]

01:30:27   as Marco to cut it out [TS]

01:30:28   no this is meaning you can let it stay [TS]

01:30:31   at right try to get this back in the [TS]

01:30:33   real slightly i will say John you were [TS]

01:30:35   you were seemingly puzzled by the idea [TS]

01:30:37   of why would somebody pay like a like a [TS]

01:30:39   20-percent premium for the convenience [TS]

01:30:41   of ordering through this through like a [TS]

01:30:43   cylinder robot [TS]

01:30:44   boys not why but that your audience is [TS]

01:30:46   limited because i know those services [TS]

01:30:48   exist i know the people who use them but [TS]

01:30:49   they're never gonna be mass market [TS]

01:30:50   because twenty percent is just too much [TS]

01:30:52   for most people [TS]

01:30:53   I'll tell you what though I would [TS]

01:30:54   probably pay roughly that premium to [TS]

01:30:57   avoid talking to somebody on the phone i [TS]

01:31:00   hear ya again yeah i know i understand [TS]

01:31:02   like that's theirs if that was my only [TS]

01:31:04   alternative like because like a lot of [TS]

01:31:06   places around here that you know like [TS]

01:31:07   you know in in the area that I think [TS]

01:31:09   John both of us live in there's not a [TS]

01:31:11   lot of changes present and a lot of [TS]

01:31:14   place the order from just like [TS]

01:31:15   independently-owned places and so [TS]

01:31:17   anything that relies on like you know [TS]

01:31:19   really convenient like or you can order [TS]

01:31:21   with our app or things like that like [TS]

01:31:23   most of the places around here don't [TS]

01:31:24   support that because they dared not a [TS]

01:31:25   big enough operation to be integrated [TS]

01:31:28   that way to have their own app or [TS]

01:31:29   whatever else which means a i can use [TS]

01:31:32   Apple pay anywhere i can use my chip [TS]

01:31:34   card anywhere even you know in most [TS]

01:31:36   places heat her and be the you know they [TS]

01:31:39   don't support like it any of these [TS]

01:31:40   automated ways of ordering so if i want [TS]

01:31:42   to order something i'm still doing it [TS]

01:31:44   the way the San Francisco people think [TS]

01:31:45   is like barbaric of like calling them on [TS]

01:31:48   the phone and place an order for [TS]

01:31:50   delivery or going to going to pick up my [TS]

01:31:51   car and I hate talking on the phone so [TS]

01:31:55   much especially too nerdy introverts [TS]

01:31:57   with with disposable income again it's a [TS]

01:32:00   narrow market like it where the [TS]

01:32:02   potential for agents that can do things [TS]

01:32:05   conversationally without you having to [TS]

01:32:07   type things or really pay attention just [TS]

01:32:09   yelling commands out into the air the [TS]

01:32:10   potential for that is mass market but [TS]

01:32:12   the number of people who are currently [TS]

01:32:14   willing to pay to avoid phone calls and [TS]

01:32:18   stuff like and and don't blink at twenty [TS]

01:32:20   percent is just too small [TS]

01:32:23   like I and I throw these things with the [TS]

01:32:25   that's another thing against these [TS]

01:32:27   things that are funded by having deals [TS]

01:32:31   with providers of their services is that [TS]

01:32:34   exactly the people who are the nerdy [TS]

01:32:36   introverted people who don't make phone [TS]

01:32:38   calls those are exactly the people read [TS]

01:32:40   the wire cutter and obsess over which [TS]

01:32:42   light bulbs are going to get and those [TS]

01:32:44   people will not be happy not being able [TS]

01:32:46   to choose who provides the flowers or [TS]

01:32:48   even who gives them their weather [TS]

01:32:49   reported like those are exactly the [TS]

01:32:50   people who want the the thing that's [TS]

01:32:52   going to use big data to figure out what [TS]

01:32:56   the best whatever [TS]

01:32:57   is and learn your preferences and do all [TS]

01:32:59   that stuff they don't want to be hemmed [TS]

01:33:01   into you know particular vendors and so [TS]

01:33:04   I maybe was just hoping to be purchased [TS]

01:33:07   by Apple or Google or alphabet or [TS]

01:33:10   whatever and that's their biggest plan [TS]

01:33:13   there but I i I'm not a fan of this [TS]

01:33:16   model where the product isn't good [TS]

01:33:19   enough for users to pay for it yet and [TS]

01:33:21   the way they make their money is with [TS]

01:33:22   back in deals and you have this agent [TS]

01:33:24   who you can't do you have this personal [TS]

01:33:26   assistant who can do a limited number of [TS]

01:33:27   things hopefully if you get the syntax [TS]

01:33:29   right and you have no control of our [TS]

01:33:32   awareness over the companies that are [TS]

01:33:34   filling the things he seemingly no way [TS]

01:33:37   to get feedback about how well it went [TS]

01:33:39   when the pizza right did you like it or [TS]

01:33:41   did you not like you can just get me a [TS]

01:33:42   pizza but not for that last place that [TS]

01:33:43   was gross so going back to the original [TS]

01:33:46   topic here these voice assistant things [TS]

01:33:48   my I think there's a lot more to discuss [TS]

01:33:50   here we're gonna have time for today [TS]

01:33:52   honestly there's a lot more discuss here [TS]

01:33:53   about just how these things are and and [TS]

01:33:55   the kind of us runs first of all I think [TS]

01:33:57   it would be a hilarious business model [TS]

01:33:59   if the series founders just kept making [TS]

01:34:02   things selling them to apple and then [TS]

01:34:05   just quitting and making the next thing [TS]

01:34:06   and then apple buys that one [TS]

01:34:08   people do that all the time that's the [TS]

01:34:10   serial entrepreneur thing you make a [TS]

01:34:12   start-up you you know exactly what to [TS]

01:34:13   make you know you that you have a [TS]

01:34:15   multiple potential buyers you play them [TS]

01:34:17   off each other you sell you do the next [TS]

01:34:18   one and what you get to do i guess that [TS]

01:34:20   is during all that time do the fun part [TS]

01:34:22   of that you like starting the company [TS]

01:34:23   doing the exciting thing or whatever and [TS]

01:34:25   you just have to exit after exit that's [TS]

01:34:27   that's the way some people live their [TS]

01:34:29   lives totally viable business model [TS]

01:34:30   especially in this day so I it i do [TS]

01:34:34   think you know getting back as they [TS]

01:34:35   wouldn't be episode of the show without [TS]

01:34:37   a completed but Apple we almost made it [TS]

01:34:39   I know I'm a little bit worried that [TS]

01:34:41   this is an area where like you know [TS]

01:34:43   Apple started this game really like [TS]

01:34:46   Apple came out with Siri in 2011 right [TS]

01:34:50   2011 and you know it [TS]

01:34:53   Apple started this whole thing really [TS]

01:34:55   like you know they were there was voice [TS]

01:34:56   command stuff before that but Syria was [TS]

01:34:58   not took it to another level and [TS]

01:35:00   integrated with the phone and you know [TS]

01:35:02   it was it was a big deal and then since [TS]

01:35:04   then [TS]

01:35:05   Cirie has advanced but fairly slowly and [TS]

01:35:09   in fairly small steps while the same [TS]

01:35:12   time it seems like now there are [TS]

01:35:15   multiple companies there's amazon [TS]

01:35:18   there's how hounds are other amazon [TS]

01:35:20   hound the vibe give [TS]

01:35:23   there's all these companies now coming [TS]

01:35:25   out with even better stuff it's like a [TS]

01:35:27   giant seem like a generation ahead of [TS]

01:35:29   Siri in in like the the intelligence the [TS]

01:35:31   recognition and the accuracy and things [TS]

01:35:33   like that it seems like Apple kind of [TS]

01:35:35   started this and now everyone's kind of [TS]

01:35:37   over running them and I don't think [TS]

01:35:39   apple is like hustling I I've used I've [TS]

01:35:43   used this this work before that it [TS]

01:35:45   seemed like apple recently lacks hustle [TS]

01:35:47   this is the only area this applies to [TS]

01:35:49   wear like Apple can start something and [TS]

01:35:51   everyone else kind of rushes and does [TS]

01:35:53   their own version of it better [TS]

01:35:54   apple just kind of can't keep up is this [TS]

01:35:57   a problem well that i would call hustle [TS]

01:35:59   in this case like you remember when when [TS]

01:36:01   jobs.can the the atg Apple technology [TS]

01:36:05   group for advanced technology group [TS]

01:36:06   everybody G stands for someone someone [TS]

01:36:08   who works at up all through it but [TS]

01:36:10   anyway like Apple used to do way more [TS]

01:36:11   basic research type stuff like that [TS]

01:36:13   whole department whose job was to do [TS]

01:36:15   like basic research type things and in [TS]

01:36:18   theory maybe we'll come up with a couple [TS]

01:36:21   ideas that other groups in the company [TS]

01:36:23   that made actual products would do it [TS]

01:36:24   Steve Jobs concentrated the whole [TS]

01:36:25   company i'm like no don't do [TS]

01:36:26   pie-in-the-sky wouldn't it be cool if [TS]

01:36:29   let's investigate this kind of [TS]

01:36:30   technology that family breakfast or used [TS]

01:36:32   to work at Apple for crying out loud [TS]

01:36:33   right and jobs like no we want to make [TS]

01:36:35   great products that ship now and they've [TS]

01:36:37   done that and that's a very successful [TS]

01:36:39   advanced technology group that [TS]

01:36:41   yeah the helpful k see listings in the [TS]

01:36:43   chatroom what we want to make actual [TS]

01:36:47   when my actual products because it's it [TS]

01:36:50   doesn't do anybody good to have these [TS]

01:36:51   research ideas and maybe one of them [TS]

01:36:53   shows up many years later but things [TS]

01:36:56   like Siri that's the only real way you [TS]

01:36:58   advance that is with some amount of [TS]

01:37:00   basic research I feel like Apple found a [TS]

01:37:02   company that was doing this thing [TS]

01:37:03   whatever the esri company overcome be [TS]

01:37:05   Cirie came from that already had done [TS]

01:37:07   the basic research acquired them [TS]

01:37:08   productized it and then is working the [TS]

01:37:11   improvements to Syria talking about a [TS]

01:37:13   lot of them have to do with productize [TS]

01:37:15   improvements make it more reliable make [TS]

01:37:17   it faster building on a different [TS]

01:37:18   platform but the basic research needed [TS]

01:37:20   to take series to the next level [TS]

01:37:22   I don't know if that is budgeted for [TS]

01:37:24   accounted for dealt with within the [TS]

01:37:26   realm of Syria that product like so [TS]

01:37:28   there they feel like they're advancing [TS]

01:37:29   the product and meanwhile the founders [TS]

01:37:31   had left was like I don't want to just [TS]

01:37:32   incremental advances product or make it [TS]

01:37:34   more reliable fast like that's your [TS]

01:37:35   problem not interested in that I'm [TS]

01:37:37   interested in how do you make the next [TS]

01:37:39   grade personal assistant or whatever and [TS]

01:37:43   the fact that they felt like they had to [TS]

01:37:44   leave Apple to do that [TS]

01:37:46   I mean maybe it's you know maybe they're [TS]

01:37:48   there misinform really there was a place [TS]

01:37:49   in grappling do that basic research and [TS]

01:37:51   it should have been part of the plan or [TS]

01:37:52   whatever but the apple today is much [TS]

01:37:55   less focused on basic research stuff and [TS]

01:37:58   and they do like the things they do like [TS]

01:38:00   all that research in touch screens and [TS]

01:38:01   stuff like that that's not the same as [TS]

01:38:03   basic research it's more like free [TS]

01:38:06   production product things like ideas for [TS]

01:38:08   future concrete products and again I [TS]

01:38:10   think this is a great strategy and it [TS]

01:38:11   gives you great products instead of just [TS]

01:38:12   great concept videos don't really do [TS]

01:38:14   anything it's been the cornerstone of [TS]

01:38:15   Apple success so you can't really fault [TS]

01:38:17   him for that but I think it's also the [TS]

01:38:19   reason that Google who just tons of [TS]

01:38:21   crazy ideas and basic research stuff [TS]

01:38:23   in-house that just never goes anywhere [TS]

01:38:24   which we criticize them for and startups [TS]

01:38:27   who their whole point is like that you [TS]

01:38:28   have a great idea let's see it and half [TS]

01:38:30   of them died you know care but if i end [TS]

01:38:31   up being successful as we said before [TS]

01:38:33   about just buy them again that i think [TS]

01:38:36   is actually have a viable strategy like [TS]

01:38:38   if they can't or don't want to support [TS]

01:38:41   that type of advancement in house allow [TS]

01:38:44   it to flourish out in the market [TS]

01:38:46   wait for all the crappy ones to die find [TS]

01:38:48   the ones that are left and buy them at [TS]

01:38:49   the right time because one thing Apple [TS]

01:38:51   does have is a lot of money so maybe [TS]

01:38:53   Apple vibes live and the next version of [TS]

01:38:55   series powered by that and who could say [TS]

01:38:57   that's a bad strategy it's just [TS]

01:38:58   uncomfortable during this time now where [TS]

01:39:00   we see like you know seemingly everybody [TS]

01:39:03   else can do serie better than apple can [TS]

01:39:05   and apples just barely working on can we [TS]

01:39:07   make existing serie reliable and a [TS]

01:39:09   little bit smarter and expand the [TS]

01:39:11   capabilities and by the way still no api [TS]

01:39:13   so no real ecosystem or whatever and [TS]

01:39:15   that I think is uncomfortable but I [TS]

01:39:16   don't think it's insurmountable because [TS]

01:39:18   you just throw money at whatever the [TS]

01:39:20   most people think the problem is if [TS]

01:39:22   Google is the one who does that you know [TS]

01:39:24   Syria better than Syria which arguably [TS]

01:39:26   they already have this google is not [TS]

01:39:27   going to sell you their stuff so that's [TS]

01:39:29   a problem for Apple but the vivre is not [TS]

01:39:32   a problem for Apple it's a it's a it's [TS]

01:39:34   opportune [TS]

01:39:34   I'm going with vibe now that's the the [TS]

01:39:38   HTC be our thing [TS]

01:39:40   yeah but I'm never going to get that is [TS]

01:39:41   that leaves two I don't even now that's [TS]

01:39:43   viv [TS]

01:39:44   alright thanks 143 sponsors this week [TS]

01:39:46   fracture freshbooks and back plays and [TS]

01:39:48   we will see you next week [TS]

01:39:51   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:39:56   mean to begin because it was accidental [TS]

01:40:00   it was accidental John research Margo [TS]

01:40:06   and Casey would let you [TS]

01:40:08   because it was accidentally was [TS]

01:40:11   accidental [TS]

01:40:13   you can find the show know today [TS]

01:40:16   DP die and if twitter follow them [TS]

01:40:23   yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:40:29   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC [TS]

01:40:36   syracuse it [TS]

01:40:49   so Instagram change their icon everyone [TS]

01:40:54   lost their I don't like the icon that [TS]

01:40:56   much but I don't think it's the total [TS]

01:40:58   dumpster fire that everyone else is [TS]

01:41:00   pretty bad it's pretty bad its remember [TS]

01:41:02   one web two point was the thing you guys [TS]

01:41:03   remember web 2.0 yeah gradients and [TS]

01:41:05   rounded corners [TS]

01:41:06   yeah the web 2.0 parody sites that would [TS]

01:41:08   like make fun of all the design tropes [TS]

01:41:11   point out the Instagram icon looks like [TS]

01:41:14   a modern version of making fun of the [TS]

01:41:16   flat design tropes I could see that give [TS]

01:41:19   you if you tried to do a parody iconic [TS]

01:41:21   like imagine the Instagram icon adopted [TS]

01:41:24   all of the current fashion trends in the [TS]

01:41:26   most obvious and glaring ways you would [TS]

01:41:28   get that stupid thing but I don't think [TS]

01:41:30   it's that bad i mean it's not as bad as [TS]

01:41:31   domino's pizza or vodka [TS]

01:41:33   yeah I like it it's fine whatever like [TS]

01:41:36   it has some things going for it [TS]

01:41:38   especially look at their alternate [TS]

01:41:40   designs and boring some of those where I [TS]

01:41:41   like the design that was like a a black [TS]

01:41:43   square with a white circle in the middle [TS]

01:41:45   of it like just now let's workshop that [TS]

01:41:48   a little bit more at least this one has [TS]

01:41:51   something to it will stand out a little [TS]

01:41:54   bit on people screens because it's not [TS]

01:41:56   just a flat color like has so many [TS]

01:42:00   people said on Twitter and as I've said [TS]

01:42:02   about windows XP and bumper sounds in [TS]

01:42:04   the end it doesn't matter that much [TS]

01:42:06   because long-term eventually you will [TS]

01:42:08   come to associate with whatever the hell [TS]

01:42:10   image they make you will come to [TS]

01:42:11   associate that with instagram and kids [TS]

01:42:12   who are just getting the first iphones [TS]

01:42:14   now don't know what the old icon looks [TS]

01:42:15   like we'll be fine with it and order [TS]

01:42:16   screws in but it is not the type of i [TS]

01:42:19   think that that explains why it's not a [TS]

01:42:24   disaster but I think you can also have [TS]

01:42:27   an icon that the initial impression is [TS]

01:42:30   that it's a nice well-designed pleasing [TS]

01:42:32   icon and it also will come to be [TS]

01:42:35   associated with the application that you [TS]

01:42:36   know and love like you don't have to say [TS]

01:42:38   that as if it's an either/or well you [TS]

01:42:39   can have an icon that is immediately [TS]

01:42:40   attracted but it will be crap long-term [TS]

01:42:42   now will also be good long-term so I [TS]

01:42:45   feel like this one is a missed [TS]

01:42:47   opportunity to make a better icon and I [TS]

01:42:49   don't particularly like it but it'll be [TS]

01:42:51   fine it's not it's not disastrous like [TS]

01:42:53   was the disastrous one like when we [TS]

01:42:54   tried to do that tropicana orange juice [TS]

01:42:56   and a backpedal not you always know [TS]

01:42:57   disaster if they change their minds [TS]

01:42:59   come back into shows from now and see if [TS]

01:43:01   they change the icon back but i have a [TS]

01:43:02   feeling the wall because it's not that [TS]

01:43:03   bad [TS]

01:43:04   the other changes they've made recently [TS]

01:43:06   or more offensive that like the icon [TS]

01:43:09   like they replaced one crap icon with [TS]

01:43:11   another crap icon like the old icon was [TS]

01:43:14   crap to it was just our family crap that [TS]

01:43:16   was that had a really good branding like [TS]

01:43:18   it was it was it looked great in ios6 [TS]

01:43:21   right and i stayed a long time but at a [TS]

01:43:23   certain point when you're the last one [TS]

01:43:24   standing I think you could become sort [TS]

01:43:26   of an act of defiance or like a quark [TS]

01:43:30   and you know the only one only one icon [TS]

01:43:33   gets to do that you can have a home [TS]

01:43:35   screen that has like six icons it still [TS]

01:43:36   looks like I OSX but if only one does it [TS]

01:43:38   like all right [TS]

01:43:40   sure go with that but yeah it didn't to [TS]

01:43:42   be updated and they had a difficult [TS]

01:43:43   challenge but I inside the app i [TS]

01:43:45   actually like I like the like the fact [TS]

01:43:47   that it doesn't look like the essential [TS]

01:43:49   item on the toolbar is constantly [TS]

01:43:50   selected like this like that stupid blue [TS]

01:43:52   is gone i'm pretty big fan [TS]

01:43:54   yeah I completely agree i really really [TS]

01:43:57   like the the new look of the app and I [TS]

01:44:01   think you and I are mostly on the same [TS]

01:44:03   page about the icon like I don't love it [TS]

01:44:04   but I don't think it's bad I i also [TS]

01:44:07   didn't think the last one was bad yes it [TS]

01:44:09   looked outdated but I I completely [TS]

01:44:11   concur that the branding was great i [TS]

01:44:13   think i would have preferred just a [TS]

01:44:14   flattened or perhaps simplified simplify [TS]

01:44:17   that about a simplified version of the [TS]

01:44:20   old icon but i would have been pretty [TS]

01:44:22   timid though if they did that everyone [TS]

01:44:23   like I go you did the obvious thing you [TS]

01:44:27   just made a flat shaded version of the [TS]

01:44:28   camera and I i think that would be more [TS]

01:44:30   difficult i think that actually less [TS]

01:44:32   successful than this because I yeah your [TS]

01:44:34   brother may be immediately kind of [TS]

01:44:36   inoffensive you won't have gone anywhere [TS]

01:44:38   this is at least is you know that you [TS]

01:44:41   can tell they made a change it's not [TS]

01:44:42   like it's a subtle tweak nope big change [TS]

01:44:45   well it on top of that this icon [TS]

01:44:47   definitely stands out which presumably [TS]

01:44:49   is the goal right it's not another damn [TS]

01:44:52   blue icon you know it's it's something [TS]

01:44:54   that is a color palette that looks [TS]

01:44:57   different than anything else i have on [TS]

01:45:00   my home screen and of course that may [TS]

01:45:02   not be true for everyone but it's [TS]

01:45:03   certainly the case on my phone I mean it [TS]

01:45:05   jumps out at me on my home screen it is [TS]

01:45:07   on my very very first home screen [TS]

01:45:09   because that's how much i love this damn [TS]

01:45:11   ass [TS]

01:45:11   so I i think the icons ok i'm sure all [TS]

01:45:16   come to think it's decent over time like [TS]

01:45:18   you said John but I completely [TS]

01:45:20   completely agree i love the muted look [TS]

01:45:23   of the app itself so that damn near all [TS]

01:45:26   the color is either your profile [TS]

01:45:29   pictures or the actual photos on [TS]

01:45:31   Instagram I really really like it i [TS]

01:45:33   would pay money to get rid of the ads [TS]

01:45:35   though the ads on my Instagram feed are [TS]

01:45:37   just oppressive like I don't thought [TS]

01:45:39   maybe I don't follow enough people but [TS]

01:45:40   it seems like every fifth thing is a [TS]

01:45:42   giant and I I'm seeing are rather [TS]

01:45:45   scrolling pass without looking way too [TS]

01:45:47   many freaking add the Instagram like [TS]

01:45:48   please i will give you i guess i would [TS]

01:45:50   give them a dollar a month maybe that's [TS]

01:45:52   not worth it [TS]

01:45:52   I'm so just continue to scroll past the [TS]

01:45:54   edge but i know some people like oh I [TS]

01:45:56   don't see any ads in my feeding I don't [TS]

01:45:57   know what Albert my trip to make them [TS]

01:45:59   spam me with that like crazy but too [TS]

01:46:02   many too many ads yeah I mean for a [TS]

01:46:05   while I had no ads and it was great [TS]

01:46:07   then a few months ago I started getting [TS]

01:46:09   a very heavy add like we are describing [TS]

01:46:11   and it really almost rude instagram for [TS]

01:46:13   me and I didn't go back for a while I [TS]

01:46:16   guess my engagement dropped and then [TS]

01:46:18   recently I just kind of stopped seeing [TS]

01:46:20   ads like they did like flip back off for [TS]

01:46:23   me but the other day about two days ago [TS]

01:46:26   I somehow got switched to the [TS]

01:46:30   algorithmic timeline and you know what I [TS]

01:46:33   they could put any icon they wanted into [TS]

01:46:36   the ugliest graphical theme they wanted [TS]

01:46:38   just give me my stupid chronological [TS]

01:46:41   timeline back because the algorithmic [TS]

01:46:43   timeline [TS]

01:46:44   I mean I I'm just not used to it so [TS]

01:46:47   maybe i will get used to it and [TS]

01:46:48   appreciate it and I've never used [TS]

01:46:51   anything else with an argument timeline [TS]

01:46:54   I I don't read facebook ok i technically [TS]

01:46:57   have an account there but I literally [TS]

01:46:58   have never used it to read its newsfeed [TS]

01:47:00   I've never done that I don't use like [TS]

01:47:03   YouTube subscriptions or things like [TS]

01:47:05   that to like browse youtube I don't and [TS]

01:47:08   whatever twitter is doing with their [TS]

01:47:10   everything I don't I don't whatever [TS]

01:47:11   maybe just drop into it but i don't see [TS]

01:47:13   I've never seen it so I the only this is [TS]

01:47:16   the first time I've ever actually seeing [TS]

01:47:17   an auger timeline and something that [TS]

01:47:19   previously didn't have fun and it's [TS]

01:47:23   terrible [TS]

01:47:24   like it doesn't make [TS]

01:47:25   any sense like I'm seeing pictures out [TS]

01:47:27   of order that they happened [TS]

01:47:29   I have no idea when I've like seen [TS]

01:47:31   everything I I'm seeing things that that [TS]

01:47:33   that don't make sense that make me think [TS]

01:47:35   that I've reached completion but i [TS]

01:47:37   haven't I see right below it like well [TS]

01:47:39   here's one that I saw 12 hours ago and [TS]

01:47:42   right below is one from eight minutes [TS]

01:47:44   ago and that you've gotta be kidding me [TS]

01:47:46   for all these years I've been using [TS]

01:47:47   Instagram that mentioned this before but [TS]

01:47:49   what i do is i launched instagram app [TS]

01:47:51   and it shows me whatever picture I was [TS]

01:47:53   doing last time briefly he had to [TS]

01:47:55   refresh is for right and then I i [TS]

01:47:58   memorized in that brief moment memories [TS]

01:48:00   with images and then scroll backwards [TS]

01:48:01   like it to it kept saying I'm basically [TS]

01:48:03   doing my own my own tweet marker don't [TS]

01:48:05   get used to that because that's how I [TS]

01:48:06   read it I admit I'm an Instagram [TS]

01:48:08   completionist i read them [TS]

01:48:09   chronologically and I don't want to miss [TS]

01:48:10   any it's slightly confused by the fact [TS]

01:48:12   that i see a lot of the cross posted to [TS]

01:48:14   Twitter sometimes I think I've seen that [TS]

01:48:16   one already must have gone too far but [TS]

01:48:17   no that's why i gotta memorize the one [TS]

01:48:19   that play however i got i know exactly [TS]

01:48:20   what you're saying if they ever if they [TS]

01:48:22   ever fix the absolute doesn't flash the [TS]

01:48:24   last images on the screen right before [TS]

01:48:25   regression the timeline would totally [TS]

01:48:26   screwed my workforce by got the [TS]

01:48:28   algorithmic one I don't know what I [TS]

01:48:30   would do maybe just stop using Instagram [TS]

01:48:31   but i'll have to try it [TS]

01:48:33   honestly that's what I'm considering it [TS]

01:48:35   because it's that bad like so I'm here [TS]

01:48:37   read my mind now i have four hours ago [TS]

01:48:39   three hours ago four hours four hours [TS]

01:48:42   five hours 10 hours one day eight hours [TS]

01:48:47   to days 10 hours one day like it it's [TS]

01:48:51   completely shuffle 12 hours it's [TS]

01:48:53   shuffled like I'll see things even like [TS]

01:48:56   you know so you might be able to do it [TS]

01:48:58   you know like I noticed that it puts my [TS]

01:49:00   wife up top so I usually like her photos [TS]

01:49:03   and I try to see them all [TS]

01:49:04   it even shows her photos out of order it [TS]

01:49:07   is so disruptive and their see I can't [TS]

01:49:10   find any option anywhere to to flip back [TS]

01:49:12   i think this is just something that [TS]

01:49:14   there presumably doing to either boost [TS]

01:49:17   some engagement thing that they measured [TS]

01:49:19   once on facebook or they want to they [TS]

01:49:24   want a new revenue stream of like [TS]

01:49:25   charging the brands that you follow to [TS]

01:49:28   appear higher up in your stream or both [TS]

01:49:31   you know it's charging charging brands [TS]

01:49:33   to make more people see the things you [TS]

01:49:34   have 20 million followers but will show [TS]

01:49:36   your thing to 10 of them unless you pay [TS]

01:49:38   yeah it's like you earn those followers [TS]

01:49:40   those people also i want to see [TS]

01:49:42   everything this person post and we're [TS]

01:49:44   gonna charge you for access to the [TS]

01:49:45   audience that you earned yeah that's the [TS]

01:49:47   facebook model and facebook instagram so [TS]

01:49:50   that's probably with us for and man it [TS]

01:49:52   sucks as a user I feel so bad now for [TS]

01:49:55   literally the entire rest of the world [TS]

01:49:58   who actually uses facebook who you know [TS]

01:49:59   trying to make sense of that news feed i [TS]

01:50:01   remember when they made that change the [TS]

01:50:03   newsfeed a few years back remember [TS]

01:50:05   everybody was all upset and I didn't [TS]

01:50:07   really understand why but now I do [TS]

01:50:09   because it it completely changes the [TS]

01:50:11   nature of the service and it kind of [TS]

01:50:13   breaks it for me like i really i really [TS]

01:50:15   don't like this and i think this is [TS]

01:50:16   going to reduce my usage of Instagram [TS]

01:50:19   substantially I think instead maybe i'm [TS]

01:50:22   wrong about this but Instagram seems not [TS]

01:50:25   uniquely vulnerable but more vulnerable [TS]

01:50:27   than usual to if they screw things up to [TS]

01:50:30   someone saying alright well just make an [TS]

01:50:32   Instagram to work like it used to like [TS]

01:50:33   imagine one that actually kept track of [TS]

01:50:34   where you were in the timeline and just [TS]

01:50:36   a straight ahead i believe it's called [TS]

01:50:38   sweet but I know but it is the social [TS]

01:50:40   graph so embedded because i can't do [TS]

01:50:42   that facebook says because too many [TS]

01:50:44   features too many users it's too big [TS]

01:50:46   instagram has a lot of users but not a [TS]

01:50:47   lot of features and it's still kind of [TS]

01:50:49   an island unto itself like they haven't [TS]

01:50:50   really totally integrated with facebook [TS]

01:50:52   at this point so if it if Instagram [TS]

01:50:56   really does screw things up and then [TS]

01:50:58   maybe there's a generation people like [TS]

01:50:59   all they're stuck on Instagram but like [TS]

01:51:00   look at snapchat comes out of nowhere [TS]

01:51:02   you can grab new users with the new [TS]

01:51:03   product that people find compelling and [TS]

01:51:04   Instagram breaks everybody's workflows [TS]

01:51:06   who they care about [TS]

01:51:08   there is a market opportunity for [TS]

01:51:10   someone to do a very straightforward iOS [TS]

01:51:13   app that shows you the pictures your [TS]

01:51:14   friends took in order and has a simple [TS]

01:51:16   asymmetrical following process like [TS]

01:51:19   Twitter and has likes and comments like [TS]

01:51:21   it's not technologically unfeasible all [TS]

01:51:25   this requires facebook to anger enough [TS]

01:51:27   people to make a viable market for some [TS]

01:51:28   other small competitor even if it's just [TS]

01:51:30   like a company is never going to be his [TS]

01:51:31   biggest facebook is never gonna are [TS]

01:51:33   never too big as Instagram never going [TS]

01:51:35   to usurp Instagram but merely become an [TS]

01:51:37   alternative is you consider it a [TS]

01:51:39   successful app.net for Instagram hell [TS]

01:51:42   dammit you feel great away from me i was [TS]

01:51:44   so excited to make that joke but [TS]

01:51:46   nevermind joke i mean it's a thing that [TS]

01:51:48   could possibly happen like it's not [TS]

01:51:50   inconceivable that can be a thing [TS]

01:51:52   depending on how badly in serum screws [TS]

01:51:54   it up and how many people's work for [TS]

01:51:55   actually doesn't drop for all we know I [TS]

01:51:56   guess people chattering if you follow [TS]

01:51:58   tons of people on algorithmic timeline [TS]

01:52:00   is indistinguishable from a non out [TS]

01:52:01   where that one because you never keep [TS]

01:52:02   track of anything anyway you just launch [TS]

01:52:03   the app and you scroll until you're [TS]

01:52:05   satisfied or something i do people [TS]

01:52:06   scroll backwards like launch the app [TS]

01:52:08   that gives it to the top of the timeline [TS]

01:52:09   and they scroll the other way i do [TS]

01:52:11   anything until they get until they see [TS]

01:52:12   until I see a picture that they [TS]

01:52:14   recognize already then they stop [TS]

01:52:16   yep that help people use it that's the [TS]

01:52:18   only way you really could use it before [TS]

01:52:19   alright here's the way I was using it [TS]

01:52:21   anyway Casey was using it [TS]

01:52:23   yeah memorize the picture Scroll scroll [TS]

01:52:25   Scroll scroll a little game Scroll [TS]

01:52:26   scroll found it now go through them all [TS]

01:52:28   see I misunderstood i actually do what [TS]

01:52:30   you just described by misunderstood your [TS]

01:52:32   region I and when it loads i see the [TS]

01:52:34   picture like it i see the picture of [TS]

01:52:35   like I don't know like a Mike Maddux [TS]

01:52:38   took pictures of cows in a field and at [TS]

01:52:39   that blinks on screen for a second and [TS]

01:52:41   then it loads 50 other pictures that i [TS]

01:52:42   scroll down to find the cow picture and [TS]

01:52:44   then I see the cal picture and then move [TS]

01:52:46   down but then you're spoiling it [TS]

01:52:48   yeah but now I know passing really fast [TS]

01:52:50   all come on what you have to do is you [TS]

01:52:52   have to pay an assistant five dollars a [TS]

01:52:53   month to scroll for you haha SI deve [TS]

01:52:57   take me to take hey we do the picture [TS]

01:52:59   that I last saw which again when i first [TS]

01:53:02   played with instagram like me don't [TS]

01:53:04   understand how that works is it broken [TS]

01:53:05   to people how to regular people use [TS]

01:53:08   Instagram because every time i wanted i [TS]

01:53:09   wanted to show me the last picture I saw [TS]

01:53:10   the same overtime logical for twitter [TS]

01:53:12   app on it showed me last week a red [TS]

01:53:14   frustrating i think the way regular [TS]

01:53:16   people do it if they care enough at all [TS]

01:53:18   is is what you just described what I do [TS]

01:53:21   and it sounds like Marco does which is [TS]

01:53:22   ok memorize what I just saw and then [TS]

01:53:24   start at the top in canada we did it [TS]

01:53:27   right [TS]

01:53:28   exactly i'm too old to keep that an inch [TS]

01:53:30   short term memory for that long I have a [TS]

01:53:32   couple of seconds before it leaves my [TS]

01:53:33   head entirely Scroll scroll to go [TS]

01:53:34   through a cow stop good [TS]

01:53:36   well the problem is I with the cross [TS]

01:53:39   post also screwed me up too because on [TS]

01:53:41   it then I convince myself that the 1i [TS]

01:53:43   just saw like that that I'd seen on [TS]

01:53:45   Twitter previously was the one that [TS]

01:53:47   flash when i open the app and sometimes [TS]

01:53:48   that's not right that's why I got you [TS]

01:53:50   gotta [TS]

01:53:51   yeah try my technique it's a it's you [TS]

01:53:53   only have to remember to a very short [TS]

01:53:54   period of time and you can really forget [TS]

01:53:55   it enjoy it while you can [TS]

01:53:57   don't close the instagram app that [TS]

01:53:59   because you're relaunch it if it get [TS]

01:54:01   purged out of memory then you'll be back [TS]

01:54:02   to the top again I never noticed that [TS]

01:54:05   but now that you say that you're [TS]

01:54:06   absolutely right i never thought about [TS]

01:54:08   it that way that's why I'm all like [TS]

01:54:09   three people on Instagram that I'm able [TS]

01:54:11   to maintain this workflow just giving my [TS]

01:54:16   regular timeline back for God's sake i'm [TS]

01:54:18   gonna get so many emails we definitely [TS]

01:54:21   yeah i think that you will find you [TS]

01:54:23   there are some kin of the subway defend [TS]

01:54:26   are somewhat someone's already wrote [TS]

01:54:27   just me of course saying that I'm not [TS]

01:54:30   crazy and that it's okay to like things [TS]

01:54:33   that other people don't like they were [TS]

01:54:34   too scared to see them at all those huh [TS]

01:54:36   apparently let somebody as well [TS]

01:54:38   somebody's file [TS]

01:54:39   oh yeah subways the words oh yeah but [TS]

01:54:41   you know sbarro pizza that's so much [TS]

01:54:42   better [TS]

01:54:43   some arbys is better than subway yes [TS]

01:54:45   you're correct [TS]

01:54:46   mmm is it I idea i don't think its [TS]

01:54:49   equivalent it is absolutely one that is [TS]

01:54:52   better it is better it is a better food [TS]

01:54:54   product on a good food product but it's [TS]

01:54:56   better i think there is something i [TS]

01:54:58   could order at subway that I would [TS]

01:54:59   rather have then anything is a bar would [TS]

01:55:02   serve now because here's the thing was [TS]

01:55:04   so far they have dough sauce cheese they [TS]

01:55:07   assemble them and make them hot that was [TS]

01:55:09   not good sauce is not good that she's [TS]

01:55:10   not good how we set any different than [TS]

01:55:12   subway subway has something that you [TS]

01:55:15   think is bread but is actually some kind [TS]

01:55:17   of mold that grows into a bread shaped [TS]

01:55:19   like this little mutant like read the [TS]

01:55:21   fetuses that there have been some [TS]

01:55:23   conservatives and chemicals on them [TS]

01:55:25   right and the cold cuts are I don't know [TS]

01:55:27   what they are but like they're just that [TS]

01:55:30   I have a frozen are they are they like [TS]

01:55:33   they're just they're not they don't look [TS]

01:55:34   like our tastes like what cold cuts are [TS]

01:55:35   supposed to be like we know what coach [TS]

01:55:37   was supposed to be you go to the store [TS]

01:55:38   you slice them you get that like these [TS]

01:55:40   these sort of I don't know what's wrong [TS]

01:55:42   with them they just they just look and [TS]

01:55:44   taste like preservatives and coming this [TS]

01:55:45   little units that they just they just [TS]

01:55:47   there's not religious not right but what [TS]

01:55:49   do you what do you think is the [TS]

01:55:50   ingredient quality at sbarro's right [TS]

01:55:53   well but as a that's what I'm saying I [TS]

01:55:54   feel like their cheese is more like real [TS]

01:55:56   just like there's nothing to go wrong [TS]

01:55:57   like this little quote there's no [TS]

01:55:59   coolant like salami like salami the [TS]

01:56:01   difficult product to get right and [TS]

01:56:02   Sbarro's [TS]

01:56:03   no tomorrow the subway salami is I don't [TS]

01:56:05   know what the hell it is like same thing [TS]

01:56:07   with the cheese simply just the little [TS]

01:56:09   preassembled like here's the ingredients [TS]

01:56:11   for this type of sandwich slapped on [TS]

01:56:13   their it like it and get the bread and [TS]

01:56:16   the cold was such a big part of it then [TS]

01:56:18   you say okay well maybe the tomatoes and [TS]

01:56:19   a lot of the fine maybe maybe the [TS]

01:56:21   tomatoes and legs are fine equivalent of [TS]

01:56:22   whatever the sbarros using but tomorrow [TS]

01:56:24   has no equivalent even the pepperoni I [TS]

01:56:27   feel like pepperonis the type of product [TS]

01:56:28   where you're not you know there is no [TS]

01:56:31   sort of gold standard for pepperonis [TS]

01:56:33   lots of variability and it's all kind of [TS]

01:56:35   crappy and one way or the other but just [TS]

01:56:37   you know that sauce dough and cheese [TS]

01:56:39   I feel like is a higher quality is like [TS]

01:56:40   these are honest products not good [TS]

01:56:42   tasting product is tomorrow but they're [TS]

01:56:43   honestly there whereas at subway they're [TS]

01:56:46   taking a sandwich and screwing up the [TS]

01:56:48   bread and the cold cut parts of it and [TS]

01:56:49   then I'm like I'm out that's it what it [TS]

01:56:51   was left i'm not going to go there for [TS]