The Accidental Tech Podcast

166: Fitness Turd


00:00:00   yeah where's John why do we not have [TS]

00:00:02   John I'm working on it and I don't can't [TS]

00:00:04   go to connect yet might be just you and [TS]

00:00:06   me my god can you imagine the internet [TS]

00:00:10   revolt that would happen [TS]

00:00:11   what do you think they would hate more [TS]

00:00:13   two hours of fish or the show without [TS]

00:00:15   John probably the show without John I [TS]

00:00:18   think they would prefer the two hours of [TS]

00:00:20   fish I think your 800 jobs here [TS]

00:00:24   oh hi John what would you think people [TS]

00:00:27   would dislike more wood people dislike [TS]

00:00:31   hearing fish for two hours more than [TS]

00:00:35   hearing the show without you or what [TS]

00:00:39   people dislike hearing the show without [TS]

00:00:40   you and prefer to hear fish for two [TS]

00:00:42   hours i think they would prefer to hear [TS]

00:00:49   the fish that's exactly what we [TS]

00:00:51   concluded that the internet would find [TS]

00:00:55   in some smite smoke Marcone I different [TS]

00:00:58   if you are not here I think about it I [TS]

00:01:00   don't really hear any fish because again [TS]

00:01:02   I never listen to the live string but [TS]

00:01:03   the few moments I remember hearing and [TS]

00:01:05   it's like some terrible rights like this [TS]

00:01:07   they play guitars and bass and drums and [TS]

00:01:11   you know and then someone says something [TS]

00:01:12   for like 22 seconds in the middle and [TS]

00:01:15   then if you even if you don't like it's [TS]

00:01:17   like you're making people listen to you [TS]

00:01:19   know scream music for someone that I [TS]

00:01:22   don't know that I think we'll be fine [TS]

00:01:24   I mean fit to be fair I think more [TS]

00:01:26   people like fish than like us it might [TS]

00:01:29   be these people but in total [TS]

00:01:34   it is currently the 13th of April it is [TS]

00:01:39   a wednesday night we just released this [TS]

00:01:42   week's episode or Marco did a few hours [TS]

00:01:44   ago but because John is disappearing for [TS]

00:01:47   a little bit we are going to be where we [TS]

00:01:50   are obviously recording right now so we [TS]

00:01:52   expect that Apple by Nintendo on the [TS]

00:01:55   fourteenth of april and we won't get a [TS]

00:01:57   chance to talk about it until I think [TS]

00:01:59   the 22nd which is the next time we'll be [TS]

00:02:01   recording so expect all the the juicy [TS]

00:02:03   and interesting things to happen over [TS]

00:02:05   the next week [TS]

00:02:06   you're welcome I mean at least my car [TS]

00:02:07   was made obsolete yesterday [TS]

00:02:09   that's true actually completely forgot [TS]

00:02:11   about that yeah they hit the tussle with [TS]

00:02:13   the ugly stick [TS]

00:02:14   come at me haters yeah i had i don't i [TS]

00:02:19   don't really regret not getting the new [TS]

00:02:21   one [TS]

00:02:21   you know because like they they [TS]

00:02:22   literally used to facelift like [TS]

00:02:24   yesterday and my car is something like [TS]

00:02:26   two-and-a-half weeks old but the new one [TS]

00:02:29   I think overall is probably better you [TS]

00:02:33   know that it has better headlights it [TS]

00:02:34   has has a center console which I had to [TS]

00:02:38   like buy separate third-party center [TS]

00:02:39   console shoving their it comes with one [TS]

00:02:41   I didn't realize it was third party [TS]

00:02:43   that's interesting [TS]

00:02:43   yeah well the day they had a first one [TS]

00:02:45   there but the reviews are terrible [TS]

00:02:47   so they stop selling it so you know it's [TS]

00:02:50   there's a couple of minor improvements [TS]

00:02:52   but nothing that really makes me unhappy [TS]

00:02:55   that i bought you know two-and-a-half [TS]

00:02:57   weeks ago [TS]

00:02:57   rather than today yeah the the front [TS]

00:03:02   kind of grill fascia area just I don't [TS]

00:03:06   dig it and a lot of people are coming [TS]

00:03:09   after me and you know kind of rightfully [TS]

00:03:11   so and say oh well you're just judging [TS]

00:03:13   it because it doesn't look like an old [TS]

00:03:14   car [TS]

00:03:15   look it doesn't look like something that [TS]

00:03:17   that blows up old plants and dinosaurs [TS]

00:03:19   and you're just being a stupid old man [TS]

00:03:21   and yeah you know that might be guilty [TS]

00:03:23   as charged and maybe in a few years I [TS]

00:03:26   won't need to see a grill up front but [TS]

00:03:28   sitting here today I just don't think [TS]

00:03:32   it's pretty and somebody had tweeted I [TS]

00:03:36   can't recall who was but somebody [TS]

00:03:37   tweeted and it's been making the rounds [TS]

00:03:39   endlessly the picture of Keanu Reeves as [TS]

00:03:44   mr. Anderson and wenwen in the first [TS]

00:03:48   movie they his his lips disappear and [TS]

00:03:52   his face just is it you know it's all [TS]

00:03:54   kind of one big flat area and and it is [TS]

00:03:57   a very very similar likeness to the [TS]

00:04:00   updated tesla model s and in in the [TS]

00:04:04   model 3 as well and the X because like [TS]

00:04:06   the Dalai basically this all started [TS]

00:04:08   with the ex that's true forgot about [TS]

00:04:11   that [TS]

00:04:11   I mean ultimately i don't i don't think [TS]

00:04:13   it's really going to be that big of a [TS]

00:04:14   deal i think it's more just like we are [TS]

00:04:16   not used to seeing cars that are [TS]

00:04:18   designed this way and that's why it [TS]

00:04:20   looks weird because it's unfamiliar but [TS]

00:04:21   exactly a few months you know what you [TS]

00:04:23   are seeing this on the road and [TS]

00:04:24   everything everyone's gonna be like okay [TS]

00:04:26   that's just how cars look sometimes no [TS]

00:04:28   no that's not it [TS]

00:04:30   we talked about this last week just like [TS]

00:04:31   you forgot everything we talked about [TS]

00:04:32   the problem that the model 3 was the one [TS]

00:04:36   where they can whip [TS]

00:04:37   sewing shot disappearing matrix thing [TS]

00:04:40   was going around because the model 3 [TS]

00:04:41   what we've seen of it anyway because he [TS]

00:04:43   and who knows what's final but we've [TS]

00:04:44   seen the model 3 is there's nothing [TS]

00:04:46   there there's no dividing line different [TS]

00:04:49   color patch different material it is [TS]

00:04:51   just one continuous schnoz and as as we [TS]

00:04:57   talked about last week like it's not [TS]

00:05:00   it's not so much that uh that we demand [TS]

00:05:05   to have a grill right it's that the car [TS]

00:05:07   looks like it has a place where grill [TS]

00:05:09   should go like the they haven't fully [TS]

00:05:12   embraced the idea that they don't need [TS]

00:05:13   to pull air into that spot they have [TS]

00:05:15   built the car with a spot where grill [TS]

00:05:17   would go but just neglected to put that [TS]

00:05:19   the same reason to face looks weird with [TS]

00:05:20   a big smooth thought where the mouth [TS]

00:05:22   should go because we know that's where [TS]

00:05:23   the mouth goes if you want to draw [TS]

00:05:24   something that doesn't have a mouth [TS]

00:05:26   don't draw the place where the mouth [TS]

00:05:27   goes and then just erase it right that [TS]

00:05:29   the x and the add the US they have a [TS]

00:05:32   grill they have a little t-shape thing [TS]

00:05:34   which i think is pretty good for Tesla [TS]

00:05:36   tu every brand has some sort of like [TS]

00:05:37   signature grille shape that they go with [TS]

00:05:39   me change it over the years but you know [TS]

00:05:41   how he's got that big sort of big mouth [TS]

00:05:43   trapezoid thing they go with well it [TS]

00:05:44   does look a little bit like a creepy [TS]

00:05:46   partial mustache like the skinny stash [TS]

00:05:48   you know it looks like it looks a little [TS]

00:05:51   like alfa romeo 2likes not like [TS]

00:05:53   everybody you know [TS]

00:05:54   BMW has the kidneys so that is a pretty [TS]

00:05:56   big signature there [TS]

00:05:57   what other brands have changed their [TS]

00:05:58   shape over the years and sometimes I [TS]

00:06:00   stick with it for like three or four [TS]

00:06:01   models generations and they go to the [TS]

00:06:03   different shape anyway this texting [TS]

00:06:04   thing with the little tea with their [TS]

00:06:06   actual team logo inside it [TS]

00:06:08   that's fine it's kind of like a grill I [TS]

00:06:11   have to see this one in person because [TS]

00:06:12   from some angles the little little [TS]

00:06:16   mustache they have their devices as far [TS]

00:06:18   as I'm concerned usually because they [TS]

00:06:19   put a place for the grill and they put a [TS]

00:06:21   grill and I made that basically is a [TS]

00:06:22   girl's not a big grill but at the grill [TS]

00:06:24   like why else have a big like opening in [TS]

00:06:26   black hair because because other [TS]

00:06:27   internal combustion engine guards have [TS]

00:06:29   won the model 3 has the same place for [TS]

00:06:31   that thing to go but there's nothing [TS]

00:06:32   there so it looks weird and like i said [TS]

00:06:35   last show if they if they want to go [TS]

00:06:38   with the no girl in the front because [TS]

00:06:40   they can find go for it embrace it make [TS]

00:06:42   it look but make it look like a car that [TS]

00:06:46   never had a grill was never intended to [TS]

00:06:48   have a grill and the kind of candidate [TS]

00:06:50   with my last because they decided with [TS]

00:06:52   markers car to put a big giant ball gag [TS]

00:06:53   thing there it looks like a big black [TS]

00:06:55   grille but it's just a clear plastic [TS]

00:06:57   like someone shoved a rubber ball into [TS]

00:06:59   the mouth of the car and some more oh [TS]

00:07:00   but that but that you know that they [TS]

00:07:05   made the decision you can't really [TS]

00:07:06   reshape the whole car the other things [TS]

00:07:08   the factor is a pedestrian safety and [TS]

00:07:10   crash standards probably dictate at the [TS]

00:07:12   very least the minimum height of the [TS]

00:07:13   front of the car so you can't really go [TS]

00:07:15   whole hog into a style that totally [TS]

00:07:17   neglects the grill so I'm not entirely [TS]

00:07:18   sure what to do to resolve this but I [TS]

00:07:20   know the answer is not with the three [TS]

00:07:22   did which is make a car with a place for [TS]

00:07:23   a grill and just failed to put one there [TS]

00:07:25   yeah the side view i'm looking at this [TS]

00:07:28   post on Jalopnik will have the show [TS]

00:07:30   notes the if you look at it from the [TS]

00:07:31   side of the card actually doesn't look [TS]

00:07:33   bad at all but any sort of front angle [TS]

00:07:35   just looks it's just this this this vast [TS]

00:07:39   emptiness and it just i agree with you [TS]

00:07:42   John be it looks like a grill belongs [TS]

00:07:44   there is an American isn't there and i [TS]

00:07:46   think i prefer this to the audi I will [TS]

00:07:49   swallow the world grill that's become so [TS]

00:07:52   trendy for audi these days which is just [TS]

00:07:53   awful or the new Lexus ones too and it [TS]

00:07:56   didn't look santoyo you're right and [TS]

00:07:59   you're like says the bowtie shape and [TS]

00:08:01   it's kind of like a ghost got its that [TS]

00:08:03   that's even worse [TS]

00:08:05   yeah it's like the entire front of the [TS]

00:08:06   car yeah it's so yeah but that's [TS]

00:08:09   efficient or inefficient for cool [TS]

00:08:11   if they use all that space but you're [TS]

00:08:13   talking about you're still saying you [TS]

00:08:14   don't like this because KCBS has a girl [TS]

00:08:16   like that little mustache [TS]

00:08:18   yeah see that's just it doesn't it [TS]

00:08:20   doesn't fill the area i see there's a [TS]

00:08:21   big expanse under the you feel like a [TS]

00:08:23   place where more able to go in there is [TS]

00:08:25   exactly and they actually exaggerate [TS]

00:08:26   because if you look they actually extend [TS]

00:08:29   down like the things around the fog [TS]

00:08:30   lamps the material goes down even [TS]

00:08:33   farther making room even more room for [TS]

00:08:35   the non-existing grill yep exactly i [TS]

00:08:37   just don't care for it anyway I'm sure [TS]

00:08:39   looks fine and once I see them in person [TS]

00:08:40   which you know should be any day now [TS]

00:08:42   soon as it's dark silent because they're [TS]

00:08:43   all over here to the render judgment of [TS]

00:08:47   seeing in person but I think it looks [TS]

00:08:48   better than 3 by far [TS]

00:08:50   yeah it does look better than the 3i I [TS]

00:08:52   think so too and I think of all they're [TS]

00:08:54   like including agent if you look at the [TS]

00:08:55   x and yes and the three together I think [TS]

00:08:58   it looks the best out of all three of [TS]

00:08:59   them out of the current the current ones [TS]

00:09:01   they're producing although one concern I [TS]

00:09:02   have for all three of them is that front [TS]

00:09:06   area that is that his body color is it [TS]

00:09:08   going to get full of bugs and chips [TS]

00:09:11   oh good point you know like I think [TS]

00:09:13   that's always the most damaged area of [TS]

00:09:15   any car i have because always just [TS]

00:09:17   covered just put a bra on it but God [TS]

00:09:19   that we started there again [TS]

00:09:21   yeah we going back to this God anyway so [TS]

00:09:26   i agree i understand that this will [TS]

00:09:29   probably at some point [TS]

00:09:31   look normal to me but today I don't care [TS]

00:09:35   for and I think it looks ugly [TS]

00:09:37   alright so let's not talk about Teslas [TS]

00:09:39   anymore and let's start to follow up in [TS]

00:09:41   our first follow-up items let's talk [TS]

00:09:43   about Teslas and chargers and charging [TS]

00:09:47   it bite now you're wrong instructions [TS]

00:09:49   this is another thing but also that room [TS]

00:09:52   was also right about this last show we [TS]

00:09:54   just didn't get a chance to pull them i [TS]

00:09:55   meant to do it but we had moved on by [TS]

00:09:56   that in the discussion about how many [TS]

00:09:59   supercharger stations there are verses [TS]

00:10:00   how many gas stations and factoring how [TS]

00:10:02   long it takes to charge and all the [TS]

00:10:04   other infrastructure needed if we were [TS]

00:10:06   to convert all the existing cars to [TS]

00:10:07   electric with a snap of our fingers and [TS]

00:10:08   so on so forth on point we didn't bring [TS]

00:10:11   up but again with the chatroom did was [TS]

00:10:14   that even though superchargers take a [TS]

00:10:15   long time to charge you can get you can [TS]

00:10:18   fill up your electric car someplace [TS]

00:10:22   other than the quotable gas station in [TS]

00:10:24   when you drive it back to your house you [TS]

00:10:25   just plug it in and a lot of people were [TS]

00:10:27   saying that it is long as you don't [TS]

00:10:31   drive more than half the range of your [TS]

00:10:32   car per day you never need to go to a [TS]

00:10:34   supercharger unless you're going on a [TS]

00:10:36   long trip so you need for your [TS]

00:10:37   supercharged be just when you go back [TS]

00:10:38   home you plug it in and I was thinking [TS]

00:10:41   about this when I was discussing the [TS]

00:10:43   charges thing last time hand it's kind [TS]

00:10:46   of in the middle because I mean all [TS]

00:10:48   Marco can tell us but like I recall him [TS]

00:10:51   saying somewhere and Twitter that it [TS]

00:10:53   takes like three days to charge his car [TS]

00:10:54   to full capacity from the plain old wall [TS]

00:10:56   outlet [TS]

00:10:57   yes so if you have if you only have a [TS]

00:10:59   plan a while it's about three days for a [TS]

00:11:00   full charge but if you're spending this [TS]

00:11:02   much on a car I I don't think it's that [TS]

00:11:04   much to ask to spend another few hundred [TS]

00:11:07   two at most a couple thousand dollars to [TS]

00:11:10   do whatever it takes to get a [TS]

00:11:12   high-powered outlet in your garage if [TS]

00:11:13   you have a 50-amp outlet the name of [TS]

00:11:15   40-50 that Tesla recommends that charges [TS]

00:11:18   the entire car in something like seven [TS]

00:11:19   hours depending on how big a battery you [TS]

00:11:21   have so if you're buying a 70 or 80,000 [TS]

00:11:24   35,000 the car maybe but as these things [TS]

00:11:26   come down in price like basically i [TS]

00:11:28   would say if you're asking people to [TS]

00:11:30   change their home in some way they [TS]

00:11:32   basically become like a little charging [TS]

00:11:34   station like that's part of the [TS]

00:11:35   infrastructure part of the [TS]

00:11:36   infrastructure you don't have to build [TS]

00:11:37   gas stations but every single person [TS]

00:11:38   when these cars has to always have a [TS]

00:11:40   dryer outlet in their garage or by one [TS]

00:11:42   of the big super tired things whatever [TS]

00:11:43   just fine like you said four people [TS]

00:11:44   model SN the model 3 [TS]

00:11:46   well not every person like you know [TS]

00:11:48   underscore friends pretty smooth he is [TS]

00:11:50   still seen he bought the car like in [TS]

00:11:52   December he's still just only has the [TS]

00:11:54   the regular outlet and he just he drives [TS]

00:11:56   a few enough miles on it doesn't really [TS]

00:11:58   matter [TS]

00:11:58   this is taking a trip which case using [TS]

00:11:59   superchargers so and right now I still [TS]

00:12:01   have that too because electricians in [TS]

00:12:03   New York take a while to get back to you [TS]

00:12:04   so I still have the plane out as well [TS]

00:12:06   and so far it's been totally fine [TS]

00:12:08   because I just I'm not driving hundreds [TS]

00:12:10   of miles a day it would only be a [TS]

00:12:12   problem i was driving like you know a [TS]

00:12:13   hundred or more miles a day [TS]

00:12:14   so what I'm getting at is like that it's [TS]

00:12:16   not that math is not as long as you [TS]

00:12:18   drive half the range it's more like if [TS]

00:12:19   you drive a third of the range or [TS]

00:12:21   whatever and the other thing is that [TS]

00:12:23   since these are the first round of like [TS]

00:12:25   minimally Viable electric cars to [TS]

00:12:28   compete with gas cars that have the same [TS]

00:12:30   range as a as a long-range gas car but [TS]

00:12:32   they're close enough that you know that [TS]

00:12:33   it's fine right [TS]

00:12:34   this is not like the leaf where it's in [TS]

00:12:36   need to be a very short-range car i [TS]

00:12:38   would assume that the capacity of [TS]

00:12:40   electric cars will go up as batteries [TS]

00:12:42   become cheaper not maybe not that much [TS]

00:12:45   maybe they'll stop around a 300-mile [TS]

00:12:46   range like an easy 300-mile range for [TS]

00:12:48   everybody and so that will just only add [TS]

00:12:51   to charge in time so it seems like some [TS]

00:12:54   necessary part of the infrastructure of [TS]

00:12:56   the electric car world is every home to [TS]

00:12:58   have a little bit better charging [TS]

00:13:00   battery doesn't mean you need to have a [TS]

00:13:01   big supercharger or the [TS]

00:13:03   three-thousand-dollar thing or whatever [TS]

00:13:04   probably just actually dryer outlet and [TS]

00:13:06   since most people i would imagine go [TS]

00:13:08   away less than a third of the range of [TS]

00:13:10   their electric car or even a quarter of [TS]

00:13:11   the range of electric car they'll [TS]

00:13:13   probably find that will definitely save [TS]

00:13:14   on the supercharger the number of [TS]

00:13:17   superchargers needed the flip side of [TS]

00:13:18   that though is the places that need [TS]

00:13:19   superchargers are going to need a lot of [TS]

00:13:21   them so along Interstate 90 where [TS]

00:13:24   there's nobody else in the entire world [TS]

00:13:25   everybody stopping somewhere along [TS]

00:13:27   Interstate not even if they're all the [TS]

00:13:28   cars were electric no one is going [TS]

00:13:30   across New York State you know you got [TS]

00:13:32   stopped for gas somewhere if you're [TS]

00:13:33   going from like you know Boston to [TS]

00:13:35   buffalo or something and it's just a [TS]

00:13:37   giant corridor of a bunch of cars that [TS]

00:13:38   need to do that and they're used to [TS]

00:13:40   pulling off one of the service station [TS]

00:13:41   is getting guess you know and then just [TS]

00:13:43   continuing on and if it takes you even [TS]

00:13:45   just 15 minutes that's gonna you know [TS]

00:13:47   you're gonna have big backups and snarls [TS]

00:13:49   as you can tell if anything it all goes [TS]

00:13:52   wrong at any of the total stations along [TS]

00:13:53   the way that you could sit in traffic [TS]

00:13:54   for hours and hours so it seems like [TS]

00:13:56   superchargers we're going to be [TS]

00:13:57   concentrated along the major [TS]

00:13:58   thoroughfares and then in suburban areas [TS]

00:14:01   maybe you can have one that covers a [TS]

00:14:03   tremendous area because only people are [TS]

00:14:04   passing through needed everyone else [TS]

00:14:05   discharges of their house also i think [TS]

00:14:08   another another major problem to tackle [TS]

00:14:10   is that if you don't have a house with a [TS]

00:14:13   garage or a permanent parking spot and a [TS]

00:14:15   driveway [TS]

00:14:16   it's kind of impractical to have an [TS]

00:14:17   electric car because you have like a not [TS]

00:14:19   so many people live in apartments or in [TS]

00:14:22   play in you know street parking only [TS]

00:14:23   areas where you're parking your car in [TS]

00:14:26   the street overnight you don't have a [TS]

00:14:27   driver you don't you don't have a garage [TS]

00:14:29   how do you charge you know on our [TS]

00:14:32   regular basis out there that's that's [TS]

00:14:35   trickier to solve I think that inductive [TS]

00:14:38   charging mat to drive your car over the [TS]

00:14:39   top of it [TS]

00:14:40   those exist you never know I know [TS]

00:14:42   they'll just put them on those put them [TS]

00:14:43   on the road when they're putting a [TS]

00:14:44   little sense for this automated cars all [TS]

00:14:46   the chargers at every stoplight [TS]

00:14:47   yeah why not [TS]

00:14:48   Marco what's the nearest supercharger to [TS]

00:14:50   you in terms of distance how I don't [TS]

00:14:52   know I mean there's one in newburgh but [TS]

00:14:54   that's which is pretty far I mean it's [TS]

00:14:56   not like you know what direction I'm [TS]

00:14:57   headed is the more relevant question I'm [TS]

00:14:59   going upstate the closest one is nubert [TS]

00:15:01   which is something like a half-hour up [TS]

00:15:02   for an hour up from going you know into [TS]

00:15:06   Pennsylvania New Jersey area that I'm [TS]

00:15:08   sure it's a different one from going [TS]

00:15:09   through Connecticut there's I think [TS]

00:15:10   there's proof there's a couple over [TS]

00:15:11   there so depending on where i'm going [TS]

00:15:14   really yeah the reason I'm asking is [TS]

00:15:16   like I see there's one in Greenwich [TS]

00:15:17   Connecticut which looks to my I like [TS]

00:15:19   it's pretty close to you yes very close [TS]

00:15:21   there's one in paramus new jersey which [TS]

00:15:22   also looks fairly low so it looks like [TS]

00:15:24   ranch is probably closer it is i'm in [TS]

00:15:26   any way the what I'm driving at though [TS]

00:15:28   is let's suppose for the sake of [TS]

00:15:30   discussion that you don't ever do [TS]

00:15:33   anything to the home and you only have a [TS]

00:15:35   regular outlet in you you would have to [TS]

00:15:37   charge of the span of three days in a [TS]

00:15:38   desperation scenario you could drive [TS]

00:15:41   what to my eye looks like half an hour [TS]

00:15:43   last to say greenwich and you could use [TS]

00:15:46   the supercharger there and drive back in [TS]

00:15:48   that that's what like probably 20-30 [TS]

00:15:50   miles maybe maybe a little more maybe a [TS]

00:15:52   little less and that would in a pinch [TS]

00:15:54   solve the problem as long as you had an [TS]

00:15:57   hour to spare right to go charge i [TS]

00:16:01   always have an hour for graphics have [TS]

00:16:02   amazing watch stores therein a good [TS]

00:16:03   lunch place how's the chicken salad but [TS]

00:16:06   you haven't had that you had better not [TS]

00:16:09   let anybody see what I'm driving at is [TS]

00:16:10   the main video that many times [TS]

00:16:12   maybe you can maybe you can avoid doing [TS]

00:16:14   the home modification until the next [TS]

00:16:16   time you do you know demo on the house [TS]

00:16:18   which for you seems to be a every couple [TS]

00:16:20   years [TS]

00:16:21   yeah it out you know I one of the [TS]

00:16:22   situations like underwear [TS]

00:16:25   my-my circuit breaker panel is full and [TS]

00:16:27   so the electrician's quoting me a couple [TS]

00:16:29   thousand dollars to to do like AI don't [TS]

00:16:31   need a panel okay but I need a sub panel [TS]

00:16:33   and then once you throw in the cost of [TS]

00:16:35   all the local permits and everything [TS]

00:16:37   else all fees for the town and [TS]

00:16:39   everything it's probably going to be [TS]

00:16:40   maybe two or three thousand dollars and [TS]

00:16:43   ended that does make you positive mode [TS]

00:16:45   isn't really am I really ever going to [TS]

00:16:48   need that necessarily compared to the [TS]

00:16:50   regular Alan and I might not when it's [TS]

00:16:53   interesting you know I I find this all [TS]

00:16:55   fascinating i don't suspect that i'm [TS]

00:16:57   going to have an electric car anytime [TS]

00:16:58   soon [TS]

00:16:59   not necessarily from lack of desire but [TS]

00:17:01   because those that are available [TS]

00:17:02   today don't really do it for me or are [TS]

00:17:04   absorbent Lee expensive or are the model [TS]

00:17:08   3 that that even if I reserve one now I [TS]

00:17:10   won't get in till declan's graduating [TS]

00:17:12   college so I don't suspect i'm gonna get [TS]

00:17:14   a an electric car anytime soon but i'm [TS]

00:17:16   fascinated by all the differences in the [TS]

00:17:19   different thoughts and concerns and [TS]

00:17:20   worries that one has like should I [TS]

00:17:23   modify my home in order to support [TS]

00:17:24   charging this quicker that it's so [TS]

00:17:27   different than what I'm used to thinking [TS]

00:17:28   about night I just find it very [TS]

00:17:30   interesting I mean and in all fairness [TS]

00:17:31   the modification to your home if your [TS]

00:17:34   home is at all modern or new or has [TS]

00:17:37   modern electric service in it is usually [TS]

00:17:40   very minimal it's usually a couple [TS]

00:17:42   hundred dollars to have an electrician [TS]

00:17:43   install a high power outlet usually [TS]

00:17:45   really close to where breaker was anyway [TS]

00:17:47   because so many breakers are in garages [TS]

00:17:49   so it's you know for for most homes out [TS]

00:17:52   there in the country that are fairly [TS]

00:17:53   young [TS]

00:17:54   I think you I think it would be a very [TS]

00:17:55   inexpensive modification and most people [TS]

00:17:58   i don't think really think too much [TS]

00:17:59   about it [TS]

00:18:00   yeah alright moving on well sort of [TS]

00:18:03   moving on [TS]

00:18:04   John you want to tell us about this next [TS]

00:18:06   item yes bhai primary look up what sa [TS]

00:18:09   stands for but one of you and or the [TS]

00:18:11   chat room will do that while I'm [TS]

00:18:12   addressing one last point of the [TS]

00:18:13   superchargers also brought up by the [TS]

00:18:15   chatroom also related to sae which is [TS]

00:18:17   connected standards tehsils apparently [TS]

00:18:19   got its own connector let's go like the [TS]

00:18:22   two little visibility shape and i think [TS]

00:18:24   i remember that like kind of a branding [TS]

00:18:25   theme but anyway I think there's four [TS]

00:18:26   pins in there maybe Society of [TS]

00:18:29   Automotive Engineers SI stands for they [TS]

00:18:33   have a standard connector for electric [TS]

00:18:35   cars which is not the same as the Tesla [TS]

00:18:37   connector so I mean we'll see how this [TS]

00:18:40   works out in terms of you know adapters [TS]

00:18:42   don't seem like it's rocket science if [TS]

00:18:43   you have any kind of station that can [TS]

00:18:44   provide electricity to cars obviously [TS]

00:18:47   testing has its own brand of [TS]

00:18:48   supercharger stations they don't care if [TS]

00:18:49   you can charge anyone elses car there I [TS]

00:18:50   think but they see no reason why they [TS]

00:18:53   couldn't I feel like that will work [TS]

00:18:54   itself out if it turns out the Tesla [TS]

00:18:56   built a million supercharger stations [TS]

00:18:58   before anybody build anything guess what [TS]

00:18:59   the standard connector is tesla's not [TS]

00:19:01   this as a standard but speaking as a [TS]

00:19:03   standards as a has a standard [TS]

00:19:06   measurement system for self-driving cars [TS]

00:19:09   which why wouldn't because they're [TS]

00:19:10   sitting around all day trying all the [TS]

00:19:11   standard Google self-driving cars but we [TS]

00:19:13   can make up standards for things don't [TS]

00:19:14   exist so they did [TS]

00:19:16   zero it goes from 0 to 50 is no [TS]

00:19:18   automation and five is full automation [TS]

00:19:20   and they divided into two regions of [TS]

00:19:22   three each because they start from zero [TS]

00:19:23   because the program is 0 1 and 2 is [TS]

00:19:27   human driver monitors driving gateway [TS]

00:19:30   basically and there needs to be a human [TS]

00:19:32   driver and they need to monitor [TS]

00:19:33   everything and three four and five is [TS]

00:19:35   automated driving system monitors [TS]

00:19:36   driving environment didn't read this [TS]

00:19:37   entire PDF so I'm not quite sure they [TS]

00:19:39   break it down much farther but again my [TS]

00:19:42   criteria is do i need to know how to [TS]

00:19:44   drive a car to get into this car guess [TS]

00:19:46   you can do it simpler as do i get sit in [TS]

00:19:48   the backseat because I falls down to the [TS]

00:19:50   same thing if you get to sit at the back [TS]

00:19:51   seat and no one is in the front seat [TS]

00:19:52   that's complete self driving car right [TS]

00:19:55   right can I fall asleep if you have to [TS]

00:19:58   sit in the front seat and have to know [TS]

00:20:00   how to drive a car because you may be [TS]

00:20:01   called upon to do so you're still in the [TS]

00:20:04   lower range that's that's really the [TS]

00:20:05   battery that I care but it's good this [TS]

00:20:06   the Society of Automotive Engineers has [TS]

00:20:08   decided to come up with a scale for this [TS]

00:20:09   and I wonder where they would I mean I [TS]

00:20:11   guess I guess I your Tesla's onto which [TS]

00:20:15   they call partial automation like no [TS]

00:20:17   automation driver assistance partial [TS]

00:20:18   automation conditional automation hi [TS]

00:20:20   automation four-dimensional standards [TS]

00:20:22   bodies is there anything you can [TS]

00:20:23   standardize apparently anyway be [TS]

00:20:26   watching for sae numbers to be quoted on [TS]

00:20:29   your cars just like the sae engine power [TS]

00:20:31   ratings that no-one rates except you [TS]

00:20:34   mmm alright John do you think and in [TS]

00:20:38   this is robin malhotra that's asked [TS]

00:20:41   asked us this do you think john that [TS]

00:20:43   Apple's new file system or truly [TS]

00:20:45   autonomous vehicles will come first [TS]

00:20:47   truly autonomous according to my [TS]

00:20:49   definition just laid out as and you can [TS]

00:20:50   sit in the backseat and don't have to [TS]

00:20:51   drive apples file system will come first [TS]

00:20:54   easily i tend to agree but you never [TS]

00:20:57   really know all right Cameron palm and [TS]

00:21:02   has written in and made some interesting [TS]

00:21:05   points about the Amazon echo and and [TS]

00:21:09   amazon in general he or she has said [TS]

00:21:13   well I'm sure Amazon echo and ash [TS]

00:21:15   buttons are interesting products are a [TS]

00:21:16   couple of key issues number-one amazon [TS]

00:21:18   is a us thing it works the US because of [TS]

00:21:20   cheap shipping it doesn't work / exist [TS]

00:21:22   in most of the world including including [TS]

00:21:23   Europe not in the US cents the echo is [TS]

00:21:27   also only available in American [TS]

00:21:29   wish Cirie on the other hand and here [TS]

00:21:31   she provides a link is available in many [TS]

00:21:34   many many places and there's a link that [TS]

00:21:37   will put the show notes for future [TS]

00:21:38   availability for Siri this happens a lot [TS]

00:21:40   when we bring up things I figured maybe [TS]

00:21:41   netflix was another one a lot of things [TS]

00:21:43   that we don't realize our us-centric or [TS]

00:21:45   us only [TS]

00:21:46   so if there are other people listening [TS]

00:21:48   in the US and who are just thinking [TS]

00:21:50   amazon everyone has amazon right [TS]

00:21:51   apparently allow the stuff amazon does [TS]

00:21:53   is really confined to the u.s. in ways [TS]

00:21:56   that you would wouldn't imagine it would [TS]

00:21:58   be like is there anything specific about [TS]

00:21:59   the echo that has to be so us seems like [TS]

00:22:01   they can make one for other kinds of [TS]

00:22:03   other countries right maybe they just [TS]

00:22:04   don't have enough server farms over [TS]

00:22:05   there that have the expertise to do the [TS]

00:22:07   the translation and the detection [TS]

00:22:09   different language was either way it's [TS]

00:22:11   always seemed kinda weird to me that [TS]

00:22:12   such a big company like Amazon seems to [TS]

00:22:13   have such grand ambitions with the whole [TS]

00:22:15   you know easy to and s3 and selling [TS]

00:22:18   things all over the world that mean I [TS]

00:22:19   can understand maybe not being able to [TS]

00:22:20   sell physical goods all over the world [TS]

00:22:21   but for all their electronic products [TS]

00:22:23   and network services they should expand [TS]

00:22:27   more well and I think this is a I think [TS]

00:22:29   what we're seeing here a strategy tax at [TS]

00:22:32   amazon which is the the echo does lots [TS]

00:22:34   of things that don't use their services [TS]

00:22:37   their their storefronts at all and don't [TS]

00:22:39   depend on the store friends at all but [TS]

00:22:40   one of the main reasons that all amazon [TS]

00:22:42   hardware exists is to get you to to buy [TS]

00:22:45   more content or media or stuff from [TS]

00:22:48   Amazon and so I bet they don't want to [TS]

00:22:51   even bother supporting it in countries [TS]

00:22:53   and languages where they they also don't [TS]

00:22:55   have widespread store coverage for their [TS]

00:22:58   stores and Amazon is historically [TS]

00:23:00   notoriously us-centric in their [TS]

00:23:03   storefronts so that's that's probably [TS]

00:23:05   the reason the main reason why is that [TS]

00:23:07   had the echo couldn't do like half the [TS]

00:23:10   things that amazon wants it to be doing [TS]

00:23:13   no maybe about like you have to just [TS]

00:23:14   think like long-term let everybody was [TS]

00:23:17   like an Amazon is such a long-term [TS]

00:23:18   thinking company meaning that they see I [TS]

00:23:20   was making spaceships and stuff so long [TS]

00:23:23   term if you are a China if you're not [TS]

00:23:26   selling in China you've got a big [TS]

00:23:27   problem because China has a lot of an [TS]

00:23:29   Indian but i'm not trying to India guess [TS]

00:23:30   what they have a lot of people and those [TS]

00:23:33   people are in many cases crawling up [TS]

00:23:36   into the [TS]

00:23:38   the income class where they can buy your [TS]

00:23:40   products like that those countries are [TS]

00:23:42   not developing countries they're like [TS]

00:23:44   developed like you know they're entering [TS]

00:23:47   the middle class type of thing they're [TS]

00:23:48   ready to buy expensive for most [TS]

00:23:51   electronics right and it's happening [TS]

00:23:53   faster and faster like if you no matter [TS]

00:23:55   how I put it this way if you know even [TS]

00:23:57   have amazon gets one hundred percent of [TS]

00:23:59   the market for physical goods in the [TS]

00:24:00   United States if you just fast-forward [TS]

00:24:02   enough years the whoever gets a hundred [TS]

00:24:06   percent of the market in China India is [TS]

00:24:08   going to gobble them up because having a [TS]

00:24:10   hundred percent of the u.s. is [TS]

00:24:11   meaningless when when they get billions [TS]

00:24:13   of people in Asia [TS]

00:24:14   yep alright who wants to talk about [TS]

00:24:17   ubiquity zeit port power over ethernet [TS]

00:24:19   switch probably Margo our first sponsor [TS]

00:24:21   this week we're really going to switch [TS]

00:24:24   but I am briefly God sponsor you find [TS]

00:24:27   our first sponsor this week is net.com [TS]

00:24:32   this is a new sponsor its net and I am i [TS]

00:24:35   pronouncing that right mah man me I've [TS]

00:24:37   never actually said this word yet you [TS]

00:24:39   have to sound more apathetic me you got [TS]

00:24:42   it that's better that's better so many [TS]

00:24:44   dot-com that these are the people long [TS]

00:24:46   ago they found a site called woot.com [TS]

00:24:48   and what was like a one thing a day [TS]

00:24:51   daily deal kind of sight and the things [TS]

00:24:54   were like things that appeal to geeks [TS]

00:24:57   so it was you know a cheap crappy little [TS]

00:24:58   hard like whatever I was saying last [TS]

00:25:00   week and the week before like just being [TS]

00:25:02   blown away by how cheap hardware is [TS]

00:25:04   these days and it especially cost [TS]

00:25:06   nothing if you get it from place like [TS]

00:25:08   math day so what they do is one deal a [TS]

00:25:10   day and this is how Amazon wounded so [TS]

00:25:12   amazon bought woot forever ago the team [TS]

00:25:15   behind it the founders behind it [TS]

00:25:17   eventually got fed up because Amazon was [TS]

00:25:19   ruining it [TS]

00:25:20   they were there like made instead of [TS]

00:25:21   being one deal a day it would be [TS]

00:25:24   oh now there's a whole bunch of deals [TS]

00:25:25   until it's kind of just amazon at that [TS]

00:25:27   point I kind of lost its personality and [TS]

00:25:29   kind of also made a special so they were [TS]

00:25:31   all happy with this they just left and [TS]

00:25:33   they went and founded a company called [TS]

00:25:34   mediocre labs which I love and they made [TS]

00:25:37   this site called net and i love the [TS]

00:25:38   attitude at this site if you read their [TS]

00:25:40   copy this is like the best copywriting [TS]

00:25:42   for trying to just barely sell a product [TS]

00:25:45   for this ad there's no coupon code [TS]

00:25:47   there's no tracking URL i was given no [TS]

00:25:49   script they just said just wing it [TS]

00:25:51   if you see this [TS]

00:25:52   monster daring fireball a lot you can [TS]

00:25:54   almost barely tell that they're [TS]

00:25:56   sponsoring like that the way they want [TS]

00:25:58   it was supposed to be written like it [TS]

00:25:59   almost seems like wait who's the sponsor [TS]

00:26:01   you do they like hide the link they do [TS]

00:26:03   they do like fun kind of like working [TS]

00:26:05   stuff like that because this is [TS]

00:26:06   obviously like laid-back people who know [TS]

00:26:08   that they are selling really cheap [TS]

00:26:10   hardware and it's like surprisingly [TS]

00:26:12   cheap so today that the one there today [TS]

00:26:14   is it looks kind of like an Apple watch [TS]

00:26:16   shape but it's actually a speaker that [TS]

00:26:18   goes on your wrist it looks it's like [TS]

00:26:21   who would wear this and they even say [TS]

00:26:23   like who would wear this and it's eight [TS]

00:26:26   dollars and that's it and it changes [TS]

00:26:27   everyday changes at midnight at once the [TS]

00:26:30   things sell out there is gone that's it [TS]

00:26:31   there's no like advanced notice of like [TS]

00:26:33   eight tomorrow we're gonna have a [TS]

00:26:35   Chromebook or whatever and sometimes [TS]

00:26:36   they you know so they have all this like [TS]

00:26:38   awesome like cheap crappy hardware that [TS]

00:26:40   you can't believe it's that cheap and it [TS]

00:26:42   has anything that works and they also [TS]

00:26:44   sometimes have good stuff like they that [TS]

00:26:46   they had last week they had a really [TS]

00:26:48   impressive home theater receiver that [TS]

00:26:50   those 3d sandwich I don't know the thing [TS]

00:26:52   until I read their site they had apple [TS]

00:26:54   watch on there before the apple watch [TS]

00:26:55   sport on there a few weeks back a few [TS]

00:26:57   months back [TS]

00:26:58   they have some really nice stuff as well [TS]

00:27:00   I love their copywriting more than [TS]

00:27:02   anything else i love how they sell these [TS]

00:27:04   products just barely the attitude is [TS]

00:27:07   hilarious [TS]

00:27:07   it's that you can like sign up to become [TS]

00:27:09   a special member which is the very [TS]

00:27:10   mediocre person VMP and VIP has all [TS]

00:27:13   sorts of little benefit you can get here [TS]

00:27:14   check it out its mat.com neh dot-com man [TS]

00:27:18   that's that's pretty much spot on [TS]

00:27:20   ok but i feel like i need more facial [TS]

00:27:23   hair to say it correctly [TS]

00:27:25   no you just need a lot of indifference a [TS]

00:27:27   just you need to be overflowing with [TS]

00:27:30   indifference it's this is a hard every [TS]

00:27:32   to do is you supposed to sound [TS]

00:27:33   enthusiastic about the spots [TS]

00:27:35   it's not this time I i love i love the [TS]

00:27:37   way these people do business so check it [TS]

00:27:40   out [TS]

00:27:40   netcom thanks for sponsoring me there we [TS]

00:27:43   go that's how I supposed to say it so [TS]

00:27:47   why don't we talk about this [TS]

00:27:49   8-port power over ethernet switch ion [TS]

00:27:51   right edge of my seat i'm so excited but [TS]

00:27:55   last week I was talking about me trying [TS]

00:27:57   to find just a simple eight parts which [TS]

00:27:58   that has no fantasy island is reliable [TS]

00:28:00   and you know just sits there i did my [TS]

00:28:03   other required by the way is that the [TS]

00:28:05   power and the ports be on the same side [TS]

00:28:07   just because of the way i have these [TS]

00:28:08   very switches arranged it's kind of [TS]

00:28:09   annoying to have the kind that are meant [TS]

00:28:11   to be in Iraq where the ports on the [TS]

00:28:12   front but the power comes in the back [TS]

00:28:14   because that's just not a good [TS]

00:28:16   arrangement for things that are sitting [TS]

00:28:17   on the edge of a table or something [TS]

00:28:18   anyway and Mark out brought up in like [TS]

00:28:21   to his a the PHP thing that he likes and [TS]

00:28:24   actually have I say the bookmark about [TS]

00:28:26   next time anybody going to give that one [TS]

00:28:27   to try i still have a couple of extras [TS]

00:28:29   at home and waiting for them to die once [TS]

00:28:31   they die i'll try that one also if you [TS]

00:28:33   just need one big one I actually used I [TS]

00:28:35   forgot to mention i actually use a [TS]

00:28:37   rackmount HP switch in my garage that [TS]

00:28:39   has it because that 18 we had a big [TS]

00:28:41   renovations done I i had the house wired [TS]

00:28:43   for ethernet so I have something like 12 [TS]

00:28:45   or 1215 ports that i'll go into this big [TS]

00:28:49   HP I think it's an 18-10 something like [TS]

00:28:52   that so that's probably something that [TS]

00:28:54   some kind of get gigabit HP semi managed [TS]

00:28:57   or unmanaged switch it was a couple [TS]

00:28:58   hundred dollars and that's also been [TS]

00:29:00   rock solid I've never liked rebooted [TS]

00:29:03   that never had a port die never had any [TS]

00:29:05   problems whatsoever [TS]

00:29:06   yeah if I had in my garage in the [TS]

00:29:08   basement or someplace like that i would [TS]

00:29:09   just get a big rack mount one just put [TS]

00:29:11   it where the heck I wanted into care as [TS]

00:29:13   long as it was reliable but [TS]

00:29:14   unfortunately do the way I have the [TS]

00:29:16   wires running i have lots of these [TS]

00:29:17   little ones around having a poor one on [TS]

00:29:18   my TV have any port one of the computer [TS]

00:29:21   room everyday part one next to mine ass [TS]

00:29:23   and stuff downstairs and so this is a [TS]

00:29:26   bunch of these little ones many of which [TS]

00:29:28   are in spaces where people have to be so [TS]

00:29:29   i have to be quiet so the HP one its [TS]

00:29:31   fanless if it's reliable and i'll give [TS]

00:29:33   it a try that sounds good but I was [TS]

00:29:34   surprised that marker didn't suggest [TS]

00:29:35   ubiquity because we talk about ubiquity [TS]

00:29:37   harbor last week and you're saying how [TS]

00:29:39   much you love do they make an eight port [TS]

00:29:40   switch to in our technical actually [TS]

00:29:43   reviewed it recently and it looks weird [TS]

00:29:46   an enterprising and ubiquity and stuff [TS]

00:29:48   like that but like a well it's solid and [TS]

00:29:49   reliable is exactly what you're looking [TS]

00:29:50   for right this is a family's one there [TS]

00:29:52   8.1 doesn't have any fans in it [TS]

00:29:53   I has a bunch of fancy features that I'm [TS]

00:29:56   not interested in like the you know all [TS]

00:29:58   these things they can do with [TS]

00:29:59   traffic shaping and you know management [TS]

00:30:03   and all sorts of other stuff but of [TS]

00:30:06   course it's two hundred dollars so I I [TS]

00:30:08   pretty much know that once I saw the [TS]

00:30:10   price not completely unwilling to pay a [TS]

00:30:15   lot of casino most of the time was like [TS]

00:30:16   all right well if this is a good one and [TS]

00:30:18   it's reliable pay money but just it's [TS]

00:30:20   just so much more than like the 50 bucks [TS]

00:30:21   and used to think and I was like well [TS]

00:30:24   you get fined fifty dollar switches [TS]

00:30:25   you're gonna get a crappy one and [TS]

00:30:26   they're gonna make noise and go dead or [TS]

00:30:28   whatever but the thing is I had these [TS]

00:30:31   dealing switches that were attractive [TS]

00:30:34   and reliable for a really long time like [TS]

00:30:36   six years seven years maybe it's gonna [TS]

00:30:39   be longer that's at least eight years [TS]

00:30:40   that's all making mac is and I think [TS]

00:30:42   happened before that how I just want [TS]

00:30:44   that again [TS]

00:30:44   you know maybe i just got lucky and [TS]

00:30:46   found like it but I think about like $35 [TS]

00:30:48   like eight years ago I just want that [TS]

00:30:49   again eight years of hard dollars is [TS]

00:30:51   much better than you know how long would [TS]

00:30:53   it 200 daughter thing need to ask anyway [TS]

00:30:55   i think i am not in the market for these [TS]

00:30:58   ubiquitous witches but who knows maybe [TS]

00:30:59   I'll get burned by enough three boxes [TS]

00:31:01   that i will regret not buying this fancy [TS]

00:31:03   managed a port switch from the fancy [TS]

00:31:07   Marco brand [TS]

00:31:08   yeah and also you know a little more [TS]

00:31:10   following ubiquity before we leave so we [TS]

00:31:11   start getting email about it apparently [TS]

00:31:14   ubiquity also sells IP cameras and and I [TS]

00:31:18   did look very briefly into those but [TS]

00:31:20   amazon didn't talk a lot of them looks [TS]

00:31:21   like they're transition model into a new [TS]

00:31:23   model that's like out of stock [TS]

00:31:24   everywhere right now so I kind of [TS]

00:31:26   dismissed it so that's why I look into [TS]

00:31:28   that they're also a little more money [TS]

00:31:29   and also a few people rode in to say [TS]

00:31:32   that they also now have I was talking [TS]

00:31:34   last week about how there's this [TS]

00:31:35   annoying java 8 wireless access point [TS]

00:31:39   based controller software that you need [TS]

00:31:41   if you have certain advanced features [TS]

00:31:42   enabled which I don't know you also [TS]

00:31:44   needed for initial setup of any any of [TS]

00:31:47   their wireless access points and it [TS]

00:31:49   turns out that they also sell this [TS]

00:31:51   little kind of like one of those like in [TS]

00:31:53   tell us if you look like a USB stick [TS]

00:31:55   with actually a whole mini computer in [TS]

00:31:56   there and I'm talking about little of [TS]

00:31:58   the the Knux isn't but whatever those [TS]

00:32:00   are they sell something that looks just [TS]

00:32:01   like that and it runs their software in [TS]

00:32:05   little like mini computer thing so you [TS]

00:32:08   don't need to run it on one of your real [TS]

00:32:10   computers if you don't want to [TS]

00:32:11   but those things are also sold out [TS]

00:32:13   everywhere but when they're installed [TS]

00:32:14   supposed to only be like 70 or 80 box so [TS]

00:32:17   you can pay 70 or 80 bucks to avoid [TS]

00:32:19   installing java somewhere which I would [TS]

00:32:21   probably do and what was the name of [TS]

00:32:23   that product do you remember i have no [TS]

00:32:25   idea it but it doesn't matter because of [TS]

00:32:28   that stuff everywhere its ubiquitous is [TS]

00:32:29   like it's like some kind of like Cloud [TS]

00:32:31   Controller or something like that [TS]

00:32:32   interesting alright your bakery makes [TS]

00:32:35   routers and Wi-Fi access points and IP [TS]

00:32:38   cameras and switches they also make long [TS]

00:32:41   range Wi-Fi antenna so I give you if you [TS]

00:32:44   want to like be my Wi-Fi from one [TS]

00:32:46   building to a whole different building [TS]

00:32:48   that might be far away they make a whole [TS]

00:32:50   bunch of stuff to do that also cost [TS]

00:32:52   suspiciously little but everyone says [TS]

00:32:53   works very well like this company is [TS]

00:32:55   everywhere [TS]

00:32:56   yeah well I i think that you know it [TS]

00:32:58   turns out there's a pretty big business [TS]

00:33:00   in taking something that's controlled by [TS]

00:33:02   a very small number of very high margin [TS]

00:33:05   companies and doing the same thing for a [TS]

00:33:07   lot of money [TS]

00:33:07   I'm glad Casey's got my job yeah I'm [TS]

00:33:11   here for you [TS]

00:33:11   thank you alright so right after we [TS]

00:33:15   recorded the last episode smile software [TS]

00:33:18   ended I smile now changing changing [TS]

00:33:22   oh it's just my ok changing some of the [TS]

00:33:24   stuff about the new pricing for text [TS]

00:33:28   text expander what it basically amounted [TS]

00:33:31   to was well most of the things are the [TS]

00:33:34   same we're gonna give you a little bit [TS]

00:33:35   of a discount if you already a customer [TS]

00:33:37   and will keep the old thing around for [TS]

00:33:39   some undetermined amount of time is that [TS]

00:33:41   a relatively fair summary [TS]

00:33:42   well i think the most important thing is [TS]

00:33:43   that they did something because that was [TS]

00:33:45   we're talking about last year like oh [TS]

00:33:46   let's see what they did let's think [TS]

00:33:48   maybe they meant this may be the man [TS]

00:33:49   that Bob it's like all right well we see [TS]

00:33:52   what their their announcement x minus 6 [TS]

00:33:55   is doing to the market now we wait to [TS]

00:33:57   see is this what they wanted to do [TS]

00:33:59   because a lot of the discussion last [TS]

00:34:01   shot was like well this is what they did [TS]

00:34:02   and it doesn't seem crazy to expect to [TS]

00:34:06   have these results come out of it surely [TS]

00:34:07   they must have thought of this but on [TS]

00:34:09   the other hand maybe they've made a huge [TS]

00:34:11   mistake and we'll find out if they do [TS]

00:34:15   anything about it like oh no hear your [TS]

00:34:16   feedback we're gonna end this is [TS]

00:34:17   something we did it was faster than i [TS]

00:34:18   ever thought they would so it's so clear [TS]

00:34:20   that whatever it is they thought they [TS]

00:34:22   were doing they did not expect there [TS]

00:34:25   action they got because that was like [TS]

00:34:27   two days everything else in one day it [TS]

00:34:28   was very quickly afterwards they have a [TS]

00:34:30   supposed to says no no are we heard your [TS]

00:34:33   feedback bottle blonde now we come to [TS]

00:34:34   the announcement did they hear people's [TS]

00:34:36   feedback [TS]

00:34:37   yeah it is what they've done actually [TS]

00:34:40   addressing people's concerns and [TS]

00:34:42   Thailand Marcos is a pretty strong [TS]

00:34:45   opinion that they're not addressing the [TS]

00:34:47   concerns really but well it's you know I [TS]

00:34:49   mean honestly I I don't care that [TS]

00:34:51   strongly about this topic in general [TS]

00:34:53   because of this i'm not really expand [TS]

00:34:54   our user and also i am a developer who [TS]

00:34:57   saw something that subscription priced [TS]

00:34:59   and so I I do sympathize with their [TS]

00:35:01   economic needs here [TS]

00:35:02   however you know that what they [TS]

00:35:04   announced is basically that you know [TS]

00:35:06   they they move this product that was a a [TS]

00:35:08   traditionally sold like you pay 40 or [TS]

00:35:11   something dollars for this product [TS]

00:35:14   everything we do a major upgrade you [TS]

00:35:15   might get upgrade discount whatever but [TS]

00:35:17   for the most part it's like you pay a [TS]

00:35:18   decent amount upfront and then you can [TS]

00:35:20   use it as long as you want any make new [TS]

00:35:22   ones every couple years or every year [TS]

00:35:24   you can choose upgrade or not and they [TS]

00:35:26   moved it from that model too [TS]

00:35:28   it's now a web service with a required [TS]

00:35:31   five-dollar month subscription with [TS]

00:35:33   these clients that are now free and so [TS]

00:35:36   the people people who use it wherever [TS]

00:35:38   very angry for basically two main [TS]

00:35:41   reasons number one as we discussed last [TS]

00:35:43   episode a lot of people just don't like [TS]

00:35:44   subscription pricing especially for [TS]

00:35:46   things that they don't expect it on or [TS]

00:35:48   that they don't see the value in whether [TS]

00:35:50   it's there [TS]

00:35:51   you know it's what people expect for [TS]

00:35:53   pricing models whether in a like I don't [TS]

00:35:55   want to pay per month for like a USB hub [TS]

00:35:59   it's just a USB hub it does its job [TS]

00:36:01   right why should we pay per month for [TS]

00:36:02   that and some people use offer that way [TS]

00:36:04   even though kind of isn't and practice [TS]

00:36:06   but anyway so there's that complaint and [TS]

00:36:10   if you have that complaint the the new [TS]

00:36:12   announcement which is basically we're [TS]

00:36:15   dropping the price on the subscription [TS]

00:36:16   for people who had the old version and [TS]

00:36:19   we're going to keep the old version [TS]

00:36:20   updated for unspecified amount of time [TS]

00:36:22   and so if you had the objection that [TS]

00:36:26   this thing should not be subscription [TS]

00:36:28   priced period [TS]

00:36:30   this will not affect you at all you will [TS]

00:36:32   still be upset about this if you had the [TS]

00:36:34   opinion that well I'm upset about this [TS]

00:36:37   not because it's such [TS]

00:36:38   caption priced but because i will end up [TS]

00:36:41   paying a lot more than i did before then [TS]

00:36:44   this will probably make you happy [TS]

00:36:46   because now it has removed i think most [TS]

00:36:48   or all of that complaint i haven't done [TS]

00:36:50   all the numbers but it's something like [TS]

00:36:51   that you know i think you'll end up [TS]

00:36:52   paying roughly the same that you're [TS]

00:36:54   paying before if you have created a few [TS]

00:36:55   years so it will address some of the [TS]

00:36:58   complaints and the ones that were [TS]

00:37:00   primarily about just like total price [TS]

00:37:01   over time but it will not address the [TS]

00:37:04   people who are really upset that they [TS]

00:37:06   are moving to this model and also they [TS]

00:37:09   may also have another problem where the [TS]

00:37:13   they removed their sync features because [TS]

00:37:16   one of the ways of justifying the new [TS]

00:37:17   subscription service is you can now sync [TS]

00:37:20   through their web service make you have [TS]

00:37:21   to think through the web service before [TS]

00:37:24   text expander which works by having full [TS]

00:37:27   keyboard access so we can read every [TS]

00:37:30   keystroke it has to read every keystroke [TS]

00:37:32   you're typing so it is functionally a [TS]

00:37:34   keylogger and before it didn't need [TS]

00:37:37   internet access because before it [TS]

00:37:39   supported sink through lots of different [TS]

00:37:41   means basically like it would store its [TS]

00:37:43   data in a file somewhere and you could [TS]

00:37:46   say that file through many different [TS]

00:37:47   means i think dropbox was probably most [TS]

00:37:49   common when people use from people who I [TS]

00:37:50   know who used it so before this [TS]

00:37:54   keylogger effectively didn't need [TS]

00:37:57   network access now it does and so [TS]

00:38:00   there's also the concerns about it you [TS]

00:38:01   know the security around this it's kind [TS]

00:38:04   of tricky to combine something that has [TS]

00:38:06   full keylogging access with something [TS]

00:38:08   that has a network connection to [TS]

00:38:09   third-party servers that you don't [TS]

00:38:10   control and then there's a question [TS]

00:38:12   around whether they are encrypting the [TS]

00:38:14   snippets that you are storing their and [TS]

00:38:16   of course the answer i'm pretty sure the [TS]

00:38:18   answer was is there not but there's rely [TS]

00:38:20   on the other security measures around [TS]

00:38:21   just like your login stuff to to protect [TS]

00:38:23   them so there's a whole bunch of [TS]

00:38:24   concerns here that people had a whole [TS]

00:38:26   bunch of objections that people had this [TS]

00:38:28   new model and they have addressed one of [TS]

00:38:31   them which is the total price over time [TS]

00:38:33   but that's all they've address so far [TS]

00:38:35   what about text and the 5 there-there [TS]

00:38:38   change on that so that we will continue [TS]

00:38:40   this from the press we will continue to [TS]

00:38:41   sell and support text expander 540 s10 [TS]

00:38:44   and Texas bender 3 + custom keyboard for [TS]

00:38:46   iOS for those who need it and they don't [TS]

00:38:48   don't have any time scales will continue [TS]

00:38:51   to sound support continued for [TS]

00:38:52   how long forever a year a month a week [TS]

00:38:54   five days when if Texas better five is [TS]

00:38:57   not compatible for the next version of [TS]

00:38:58   OS 10 will be updated so many questions [TS]

00:39:03   that I again I have to think they know [TS]

00:39:05   these questions like they've been [TS]

00:39:06   getting tons of feedbacks huge number of [TS]

00:39:08   those questions must have said how long [TS]

00:39:10   was ex-offender five be supported will [TS]

00:39:12   you updated how long time you know how [TS]

00:39:14   long will your old versions that didn't [TS]

00:39:16   do the subscription pricing how long [TS]

00:39:17   will they be supported will you continue [TS]

00:39:18   to update them and they just didn't [TS]

00:39:20   answer it at all and you have to think [TS]

00:39:22   it's because they think people won't [TS]

00:39:24   like the answer not because I didn't [TS]

00:39:25   occur to us to address that question [TS]

00:39:27   because they must have got that question [TS]

00:39:28   thousands of times already [TS]

00:39:29   yeah because the answer is you know if [TS]

00:39:32   you think about it just think about it [TS]

00:39:33   and everybody they're not trying to be [TS]

00:39:34   like greedy or evil or anything they [TS]

00:39:37   can't support an old version of this app [TS]

00:39:39   forever [TS]

00:39:40   there's going to be on an infinite time [TS]

00:39:41   scale there's going to be an end to the [TS]

00:39:44   support for this version of this app so [TS]

00:39:46   and you know when are they going to do [TS]

00:39:49   that they what they've said in this post [TS]

00:39:51   it really just I think honestly makes [TS]

00:39:54   the problem it worse because it implies [TS]

00:39:55   that this will be supported indefinitely [TS]

00:39:58   but you know in practice there's going [TS]

00:40:01   to be an end and I don't think we or [TS]

00:40:03   they know when that end will be yet but [TS]

00:40:06   I think they're creating unmaintained [TS]

00:40:07   able expectation here [TS]

00:40:09   yeah like whatever they've lifted a [TS]

00:40:12   naive person reading this that someone's [TS]

00:40:14   going to read we will continue to sell [TS]

00:40:16   and support to expand five like oh i'm [TS]

00:40:17   so satisfied this press release made me [TS]

00:40:19   feel so much better thank you smile we [TS]

00:40:21   love you right [TS]

00:40:22   but what they have in their head is and [TS]

00:40:24   help continue to use text and the 5 [TS]

00:40:25   forever like and eventually texts aspect [TS]

00:40:28   Texas matter five will not work and [TS]

00:40:30   they're going to be so angry then was [TS]

00:40:32   gonna be like but you put out this press [TS]

00:40:33   release that said you will continue to [TS]

00:40:35   sell support x-men five and that's gonna [TS]

00:40:36   be like well we continue to support x [TS]

00:40:38   better five but unfortunately text [TS]

00:40:40   identified as a product is only [TS]

00:40:41   compatible version is XYZ and Bob lot [TS]

00:40:43   alike but you said and like people [TS]

00:40:45   aren't reading like lawyers and I [TS]

00:40:46   reading for the nuance they're not and [TS]

00:40:48   they don't know like why should you [TS]

00:40:49   expect customer to understand what is [TS]

00:40:53   involved in maintaining an application [TS]

00:40:54   across the multiple releases of various [TS]

00:40:56   OS it's like there is something [TS]

00:40:57   especially for like a system I utility [TS]

00:40:59   like Texas matter whether it's on iOS [TS]

00:41:00   rs10 there's always going to be stuff [TS]

00:41:03   you have to do to maintain it is not as [TS]

00:41:04   simple as a just and [TS]

00:41:05   an application that you just run it and [TS]

00:41:06   then it went to you and that needs to be [TS]

00:41:08   maintained so I know they're setting [TS]

00:41:09   themselves up for failure but like I [TS]

00:41:12   think about how much do I think they're [TS]

00:41:13   gonna start texas-pan five well they [TS]

00:41:15   don't want to support two different [TS]

00:41:16   versions of their product like who would [TS]

00:41:18   want like the whole point of that you [TS]

00:41:20   did they want to have sustainable [TS]

00:41:21   development description pricing you [TS]

00:41:23   can't say okay now we're gonna have two [TS]

00:41:25   teams one that's just maintaining the [TS]

00:41:27   old versions and one to maintain the new [TS]

00:41:28   version nobody wants to do that so my [TS]

00:41:30   gut reaction is someone who's seen a lot [TS]

00:41:32   of software is the Texas manner five [TS]

00:41:34   minute and take span 23 for iOS they'll [TS]

00:41:38   probably work with this version of [TS]

00:41:39   austin and the next in this version of [TS]

00:41:41   iOS and the next version probably but [TS]

00:41:43   when they break i don't think the smile [TS]

00:41:44   will invest in my fixing them because [TS]

00:41:45   they'll be like look you had your time [TS]

00:41:47   now it's time to move on to the other [TS]

00:41:49   one took to whatever six or seven or [TS]

00:41:52   wherever the now right and in smiles [TS]

00:41:54   defense you know I that this is while I [TS]

00:41:57   I don't want to like gang up on them or [TS]

00:41:59   or be you know or attribute to malice to [TS]

00:42:01   them but there are these problems with [TS]

00:42:04   every way you choose to take money you [TS]

00:42:06   know if they continue doing the old way [TS]

00:42:08   of here's a paid app you buy it once and [TS]

00:42:11   then in a couple years you might buy an [TS]

00:42:12   upgrade that method also has to cut off [TS]

00:42:15   support for old versions eventually and [TS]

00:42:17   when that happens that also angers [TS]

00:42:19   people and so no matter what you do no [TS]

00:42:23   matter what you choose to take money it [TS]

00:42:24   will anger somebody and it and you know [TS]

00:42:26   a lot of somebodies if you're if you [TS]

00:42:28   have a good customer base you know if [TS]

00:42:29   you have a good-sized customer base it's [TS]

00:42:30   going to anger a lot of people [TS]

00:42:31   regardless of what you do if you don't [TS]

00:42:33   charge for anything that'll anger people [TS]

00:42:35   who are afraid that you're going to sell [TS]

00:42:36   their data if you put ads in their [TS]

00:42:38   cattle anger people who don't like ads [TS]

00:42:39   who or doing what they're doing [TS]

00:42:41   no matter what you do you're going to [TS]

00:42:43   anger people i don't envy the position [TS]

00:42:46   that smiles in here because what they're [TS]

00:42:47   clearly saying if not you know directly [TS]

00:42:51   than employing what they're clearly [TS]

00:42:52   saying is we need to get more money from [TS]

00:42:55   text expander like whatever this isn't [TS]

00:42:57   working for us we need more revenue from [TS]

00:42:59   it somehow and the way we're gonna do [TS]

00:43:01   that is going to have the short-term [TS]

00:43:03   pain for somebody and it seems like [TS]

00:43:06   they're trying to address people's [TS]

00:43:09   concerns but ultimately they're not [TS]

00:43:11   they're not able to they can't because [TS]

00:43:13   they have to make money somewhere so [TS]

00:43:15   like there's always gonna be people who [TS]

00:43:17   are mad about this and they're going to [TS]

00:43:18   have to [TS]

00:43:19   choose to make some of the mad i think [TS]

00:43:21   the only two good options here are [TS]

00:43:24   either that they continue doing the [TS]

00:43:26   subscription model which honestly I I [TS]

00:43:28   don't think it's a good idea [TS]

00:43:30   it seems deeply flawed for the kind of [TS]

00:43:33   product is the kind of audience that it [TS]

00:43:35   had that as far as i know but again I'm [TS]

00:43:37   not them i don't i don't know who your [TS]

00:43:39   customers are so i could be wrong [TS]

00:43:40   so that's one option is to just go whole [TS]

00:43:42   hog industry in the subscription the way [TS]

00:43:43   they were before and just be honest like [TS]

00:43:46   look you know support 45 will end after [TS]

00:43:48   next OS version or something like that [TS]

00:43:50   now you set a date or Senate version [TS]

00:43:52   will just say are able to stop after [TS]

00:43:54   this and then you're on your own and you [TS]

00:43:55   gotta move to our service now or not or [TS]

00:43:58   completely bring back the old model of [TS]

00:44:01   Licensing what you know whether they [TS]

00:44:02   continuing the subscription model also [TS]

00:44:04   or not I don't know but you know the the [TS]

00:44:07   alternative here is you bring back the [TS]

00:44:09   old model we're ok now you know [TS]

00:44:11   TextExpander six is a regular software [TS]

00:44:14   release that you can buy for 40 bucks or [TS]

00:44:15   whatever and you can own it but no [TS]

00:44:18   monthly fees after that for you know [TS]

00:44:20   until you decide to stop using it until [TS]

00:44:21   it breaks with some distant future [TS]

00:44:23   Western version i don't see another [TS]

00:44:26   option here like what what they're doing [TS]

00:44:27   now is trying to bridge the benefits of [TS]

00:44:29   both are trying to please people who [TS]

00:44:32   want both without giving up their [TS]

00:44:35   subscription idea and and because you [TS]

00:44:38   know this is obviously like they've [TS]

00:44:38   obviously invested a lot into setting [TS]

00:44:41   this up migrating product over to this [TS]

00:44:43   kind of system somebody's using it so if [TS]

00:44:46   they kill this description service now [TS]

00:44:47   they're going to anger the people who [TS]

00:44:49   are using it and who do like it so like [TS]

00:44:51   it this is not an imposition to be it [TS]

00:44:53   and I I don't want I don't want to make [TS]

00:44:56   light of this because it's like this is [TS]

00:44:58   this is all hard stuff and in the [TS]

00:45:01   current software landscape it is [TS]

00:45:04   incredibly difficult to make a healthy [TS]

00:45:07   profit selling software today it's just [TS]

00:45:11   hard and and they have a staff they have [TS]

00:45:13   to support and you know what you can [TS]

00:45:15   argue [TS]

00:45:16   oh well maybe maybe software should be [TS]

00:45:19   free or there's a lot of competition or [TS]

00:45:20   maybe they should lower their costs [TS]

00:45:22   whatever but none of those things are [TS]

00:45:23   easy things to address or easy things to [TS]

00:45:25   actually follow through on and often [TS]

00:45:27   have uncomfortable side effects so if [TS]

00:45:29   this is not you know that like that the [TS]

00:45:32   solution might [TS]

00:45:32   just be like it's kind of like when the [TS]

00:45:35   minimum wage goes up [TS]

00:45:36   yeah I'm sorry for going political here [TS]

00:45:38   God when the minimum wage goes up one of [TS]

00:45:41   the problems that the economist site [TS]

00:45:43   when that happens is it basically prices [TS]

00:45:46   out a whole bunch of jobs from being [TS]

00:45:48   doable because like will now like if the [TS]

00:45:51   minimum i have to pay legal full-time [TS]

00:45:53   employee is your legal employees x then [TS]

00:45:56   any job that is that cost less than X [TS]

00:45:58   just kinda I can't just can't pay [TS]

00:46:00   somebody to do that really or any job is [TS]

00:46:02   only worth you know something below [TS]

00:46:04   decks that kind of problem happens now [TS]

00:46:08   with software which is like a lot of [TS]

00:46:10   software that could be created and that [TS]

00:46:12   could have value to people just is not [TS]

00:46:15   going to do well enough in the market or [TS]

00:46:16   people won't pay enough for it for it to [TS]

00:46:19   be sustained [TS]

00:46:20   so a lot of that software just won't get [TS]

00:46:22   created or only creating an abandoned so [TS]

00:46:25   there's all sorts of like you know [TS]

00:46:26   economic uncomfortable truths about this [TS]

00:46:29   we would however however you think about [TS]

00:46:32   software pricing however you think [TS]

00:46:33   things should be priced or however [TS]

00:46:35   whatever you're willing to pay for them [TS]

00:46:36   it's it's a very tricky area and I don't [TS]

00:46:39   envy smile at all for the position [TS]

00:46:41   they're in right now [TS]

00:46:42   yeah I certainly don't either yeah like [TS]

00:46:44   i kind of think like Adobe when they [TS]

00:46:47   went through a similar transition of [TS]

00:46:49   like a man i think it was making plenty [TS]

00:46:51   of money but this is you know what we [TS]

00:46:52   think it would be better for us [TS]

00:46:54   financially if we could if you could pay [TS]

00:46:57   for applications on a subscription basis [TS]

00:46:58   rather than selling your box with [TS]

00:47:00   software in it or selling your download [TS]

00:47:02   whatever into the most part they made a [TS]

00:47:03   transition to that Microsoft is going to [TS]

00:47:05   the same thing now trying to sell office [TS]

00:47:06   365 subscriptions and everything like [TS]

00:47:09   that smile obviously is much smaller [TS]

00:47:12   than Dobie or Microsoft look like it was [TS]

00:47:14   trying to make a similar transition and [TS]

00:47:16   it's almost it's almost like I feel like [TS]

00:47:18   ripping off the bandaid and just plowing [TS]

00:47:20   bravely forward certainly from the [TS]

00:47:22   outside that would be a cleaner [TS]

00:47:24   situation but from the inside maybe like [TS]

00:47:26   that wasn't even an option that we would [TS]

00:47:28   have died the product would not be [TS]

00:47:29   viable [TS]

00:47:30   we tried it it's not working too many [TS]

00:47:32   people angry we're not selling enough [TS]

00:47:33   subscriptions we have to immediately do [TS]

00:47:34   an about-face and so I guess you know [TS]

00:47:36   better now than six months from now or [TS]

00:47:38   whatever but anyway this is surely not [TS]

00:47:41   the way they hope this transition would [TS]

00:47:43   go and i think their attempt to [TS]

00:47:46   you to fix it with the discount and the [TS]

00:47:50   vague promise of support for the old [TS]

00:47:53   versions i don't know if it makes it [TS]

00:47:55   worse but boy I like yeah I don't know [TS]

00:48:00   if it gives them a higher chance of [TS]

00:48:02   success either like I I just feel like [TS]

00:48:05   they're saying that the only does [TS]

00:48:06   deferred the anger to to a later period [TS]

00:48:09   yeah the discount i think i think is is [TS]

00:48:11   probably fine because that's I think [TS]

00:48:13   this kind is actually like maybe the [TS]

00:48:14   mistake they just made was making a [TS]

00:48:16   subscription price too high that they [TS]

00:48:17   could that could have been something [TS]

00:48:18   they decided to offer getting all angry [TS]

00:48:19   feedback when that sign of descriptions [TS]

00:48:21   again i'm speculating here maybe the [TS]

00:48:24   price is just too high [TS]

00:48:25   like if you told people they could use [TS]

00:48:26   text and you get it for free and you [TS]

00:48:28   have to pay a penny a month everyone's [TS]

00:48:29   fine with that suddenly it's not the [TS]

00:48:30   suddenly is not some sort of [TS]

00:48:31   philosophical objection to subscription [TS]

00:48:33   pricing i don't want to pay a penny [TS]

00:48:34   months too much know everybody's fine [TS]

00:48:36   with that it's below their level of [TS]

00:48:37   concern right but five dollars a month [TS]

00:48:40   or whatever it is was above people seem [TS]

00:48:42   so the fifty percent discount for life [TS]

00:48:43   if that brings it down below people [TS]

00:48:47   threshold then we'll see like Marco said [TS]

00:48:49   they really object philosophically to [TS]

00:48:51   subscriptions period or was he merely [TS]

00:48:53   the price is too high the promise to [TS]

00:48:55   text expander is like and also we're not [TS]

00:48:59   even really sure the subscription think [TS]

00:49:00   it's a good idea so you can have this [TS]

00:49:02   thing for some undefined period of time [TS]

00:49:04   but probably it will go away but you [TS]

00:49:05   probably don't know that and just makes [TS]

00:49:07   me depressed but you know I was anyway [TS]

00:49:09   we'll see how it works out for them like [TS]

00:49:11   Microsoft is difficult but the final [TS]

00:49:12   part is you can somehow can't get your [TS]

00:49:14   way out of a press release without [TS]

00:49:16   something terrible appearing and I feel [TS]

00:49:20   like it's I don't i'm not a PR person I [TS]

00:49:23   don't know how to do BR person's job i'm [TS]

00:49:24   not going to say that i could have [TS]

00:49:27   written this better but as someone who [TS]

00:49:30   reads a lot of press releases reading [TS]

00:49:32   this does not make me feel better about [TS]

00:49:33   the company and I imagine that's what [TS]

00:49:35   press releases are supposed to do the [TS]

00:49:36   last part of it was this supposed to be [TS]

00:49:38   like you know person-to-person like have [TS]

00:49:40   empathy for us and so forth [TS]

00:49:41   this was a big change their number of [TS]

00:49:43   things we could have done better alright [TS]

00:49:44   that sounds like the start of a [TS]

00:49:45   paragraph where they're saying basically [TS]

00:49:46   like acknowledging ok are bad you know [TS]

00:49:48   that you are angry at us and we have to [TS]

00:49:51   at this point acknowledge that you are [TS]

00:49:53   angry at us with reasons there are [TS]

00:49:54   things that didn't turn out the way we [TS]

00:49:56   wanted them to you know we're sorry your [TS]

00:49:59   mad [TS]

00:49:59   we acknowledge your anger like that [TS]

00:50:01   right seems like it's going to find so [TS]

00:50:03   far we genuinely want to bring you the [TS]

00:50:04   best text and experience you can [TS]

00:50:06   unfortunately not all the accents had [TS]

00:50:07   the intended effect still so so good so [TS]

00:50:09   far [TS]

00:50:09   for example comma we staggered our [TS]

00:50:12   customer emails or three days to ensure [TS]

00:50:14   smooth server capacity so that everyone [TS]

00:50:15   would have a good initial experience [TS]

00:50:16   with the service this ever held up but [TS]

00:50:18   many customers learned of the new text [TS]

00:50:20   expander from news sites Twitter or [TS]

00:50:22   Twitter rather than from smile that is [TS]

00:50:24   not an example of the of the bad things [TS]

00:50:27   that people are yelling at you about [TS]

00:50:28   like because they found out the news [TS]

00:50:30   from a site other than you as if somehow [TS]

00:50:32   they found out from you they would have [TS]

00:50:33   choked it down and it would have been [TS]

00:50:35   more palatable they're angry about what [TS]

00:50:36   happened [TS]

00:50:37   finding out what happened from news [TS]

00:50:39   sites rather different you physical part [TS]

00:50:41   of that may be like why do I gotta hear [TS]

00:50:43   this on Twitter instead of from you [TS]

00:50:44   directly smile but subsequently if [TS]

00:50:46   you're going to pick the thing that [TS]

00:50:47   people are angry about [TS]

00:50:49   that's not it this whole press release [TS]

00:50:50   was addressing the issues none of which [TS]

00:50:51   were I found out about this from Twitter [TS]

00:50:53   instead of smile don't in your press [TS]

00:50:55   release like that it's like it's like [TS]

00:50:57   you know what is your greatest weakness [TS]

00:50:58   so I'm little bit I'm assess a hard [TS]

00:51:00   worker sometimes are better [TS]

00:51:02   ok it's not they were they were so close [TS]

00:51:05   they're right there but it's for example [TS]

00:51:07   and the example they gave is not what [TS]

00:51:09   people are angry it's not even like the [TS]

00:51:10   top three that people are angry about so [TS]

00:51:14   close [TS]

00:51:15   yeah I'm feeling the story is not over [TS]

00:51:18   yeah we've heard you and actually it's [TS]

00:51:20   going to be twenty-five percent of the [TS]

00:51:22   original price for life and Texas better [TS]

00:51:24   five will be supported indefinitely and [TS]

00:51:26   we're canceling text finder six but wait [TS]

00:51:27   we heard you Texas better 6 users you [TS]

00:51:29   want to keep all right I get them i get [TS]

00:51:32   1 yeah you know they're they're allowed [TS]

00:51:35   to you try something doesn't work you [TS]

00:51:37   react fast good if they come back again [TS]

00:51:39   with another press release and then [TS]

00:51:41   we're just going to have dedicated [TS]

00:51:42   texture podcast is alright well we have [TS]

00:51:48   one more quick piece of follow-up and [TS]

00:51:49   then we can move on to some other stuff [TS]

00:51:51   these were the topics in they were [TS]

00:51:53   working with a great yeah it's not gray [TS]

00:51:56   area text matters follow-up so is Apple [TS]

00:51:59   yeah fair enough John you finally got [TS]

00:52:01   your way she got your bleeps and bloops [TS]

00:52:02   and how's that going [TS]

00:52:05   not my wish I wanted believes in the [TS]

00:52:07   theme song that we had in one episode [TS]

00:52:10   way back when [TS]

00:52:13   but Marco took it upon itself to add [TS]

00:52:18   believes in glutes before and after the [TS]

00:52:21   ads I think because he listened to much [TS]

00:52:23   hello internet or some other reason [TS]

00:52:24   anyway we've gotten a lot of feedback [TS]

00:52:26   about that and I thought Marco should [TS]

00:52:28   explain what he's doing and why we've [TS]

00:52:30   got like three people who don't like [TS]

00:52:31   it's yeah it's more than that but man [TS]

00:52:33   people who don't like it i mean i can [TS]

00:52:35   say the sky is blue and people and more [TS]

00:52:37   people will tell me i'm an idiot and [TS]

00:52:39   wrong then what we've heard about this [TS]

00:52:41   well that's also true well people don't [TS]

00:52:42   like change so that's obvious right but [TS]

00:52:44   I want more interested in is why did you [TS]

00:52:46   add them not why do people not like them [TS]

00:52:47   but why did you add them sure [TS]

00:52:48   so first of all you can quibble over the [TS]

00:52:51   choice of sounds that the I i chose old [TS]

00:52:53   Max and I wanted to do the windows XP [TS]

00:52:56   USB device plugged in and unplugged [TS]

00:52:58   sounds but I knew John would not allow [TS]

00:53:01   that that that's correct John I don't [TS]

00:53:04   even know that sound but no that would [TS]

00:53:05   be thinking about you do you do now [TS]

00:53:07   known as it anyway so that's what I [TS]

00:53:11   wanted to do and I knew John but would [TS]

00:53:13   object so I i chose old Mac sounds [TS]

00:53:16   instead that kind of just that the [TS]

00:53:18   actual origins of them are kinda funny [TS]

00:53:20   one of them's a crash one of them to [TS]

00:53:22   reboot of some old max I didn't pick [TS]

00:53:24   based on what computers they belong to [TS]

00:53:26   specifically in the old Apple lineup i [TS]

00:53:28   just picked based on which ones I [TS]

00:53:29   thought sounded right for this purpose i [TS]

00:53:31   was think about using using something [TS]

00:53:32   like this for awhile because it allows [TS]

00:53:35   me a lot more flexibility and editing of [TS]

00:53:37   when i start the ad and when I end the [TS]

00:53:39   ad it also saves time in the episode [TS]

00:53:42   because it removes all the transition [TS]

00:53:45   lead-in from like Casey saying all right [TS]

00:53:48   before we cover this market large tell [TS]

00:53:50   me something that's awesome you know [TS]

00:53:51   something like that like it [TS]

00:53:52   it removes the need for a lot of that so [TS]

00:53:55   it does save time I think and it's also [TS]

00:53:57   just gives me the flexibility to place [TS]

00:53:59   the ads wherever I want to really like [TS]

00:54:01   whenever wherever there's a natural [TS]

00:54:02   break in conversation even if we didn't [TS]

00:54:05   say at that point in the show [TS]

00:54:06   alright let's do a sponsor break now so [TS]

00:54:08   it allows flexibility and editing [TS]

00:54:09   basically and it makes everything [TS]

00:54:10   shorter it also helps differentiate when [TS]

00:54:12   the ad has begun and when the and has [TS]

00:54:14   ended it forces you to figure that out [TS]

00:54:16   to it yet was easy [TS]

00:54:18   yeah enforcing it forces to be like a [TS]

00:54:19   fully defined boundary which i think is [TS]

00:54:21   better tutorial even though i think we [TS]

00:54:23   were pretty good about that already but [TS]

00:54:24   this does help just a little bit [TS]

00:54:26   like last week you talk to john about [TS]

00:54:28   blue apron after after I had finished [TS]

00:54:30   doing my script and so if if I wanted to [TS]

00:54:33   integrate that into the ad read i had to [TS]

00:54:36   move it in and I did and so I actually [TS]

00:54:38   rearranging the ad to move that into the [TS]

00:54:40   ad real explicitly and then once the [TS]

00:54:42   sound played the ad was over so i think [TS]

00:54:45   that helped also and so that's why I did [TS]

00:54:48   it and the reason I started two weeks [TS]

00:54:50   ago is because all three live reads I [TS]

00:54:55   did that recording I hated them all and [TS]

00:54:58   so I recorded them all the next morning [TS]

00:54:59   and when I what I do recording after the [TS]

00:55:01   fact which I occasionally do if I mess [TS]

00:55:03   up a read too badly if I just don't like [TS]

00:55:04   the way it turned out I will of course [TS]

00:55:06   always sound slightly different from the [TS]

00:55:08   way some of the night before just [TS]

00:55:10   because you know people's voices changed [TS]

00:55:11   throughout the day and um and throughout [TS]

00:55:13   each day you might have different voice [TS]

00:55:14   to yesterday but I you know just how [TS]

00:55:16   tired you are whether you're sick with [TS]

00:55:18   allergies whatever so I didn't like all [TS]

00:55:20   three the added two weeks ago I replaced [TS]

00:55:22   them all the morning after and decided [TS]

00:55:23   this would be a good time to use the [TS]

00:55:25   sounds because it would help people not [TS]

00:55:26   notice that I sounded different in the [TS]

00:55:29   ads and these dinner as far as i know [TS]

00:55:31   these did originate like the idea of at [TS]

00:55:33   bumper sounds I first heard it on hello [TS]

00:55:36   Internet [TS]

00:55:37   I don't know if they invented it but [TS]

00:55:38   that is certainly where I first heard it [TS]

00:55:40   they did not invent it just like a [TS]

00:55:41   underscored in an exploding as yes [TS]

00:55:44   didn't I heard it first on correlation I [TS]

00:55:47   thought I think it's probably from the [TS]

00:55:51   radio the invention of radio yeah i mean [TS]

00:55:54   that well within podcast yeah radio its [TS]

00:55:58   everyone does a little bit differently [TS]

00:55:59   but the idea of just like kind of like a [TS]

00:56:01   quick opening and closing sound effect i [TS]

00:56:03   first heard that hello internet they get [TS]

00:56:05   full credit because they are awesome and [TS]

00:56:06   they are still my favorite podcast i [TS]

00:56:08   don't know i'm i'm just going to assume [TS]

00:56:09   they stole something from us at some [TS]

00:56:10   point we'll call it even and yeah that's [TS]

00:56:12   about it [TS]

00:56:13   we also sponsor this week by freshbooks [TS]

00:56:16   go to fresh books.com / ATP freshbooks [TS]

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00:57:23   this means you get paid faster because [TS]

00:57:25   it's easier for your clients to pay you [TS]

00:57:27   and if you do transactions in person if [TS]

00:57:31   you're some kind of in-person worker and [TS]

00:57:33   you have to invoice people in person and [TS]

00:57:35   get paid in person for what you just did [TS]

00:57:36   they have a mobile card reader let you [TS]

00:57:38   accept credit cards right there and so [TS]

00:57:40   again helping you get paid faster they [TS]

00:57:42   also offer lots of little community [TS]

00:57:43   features that way to cover and every one [TS]

00:57:46   of the things they offer is overdue [TS]

00:57:48   payment reminders now every time i've [TS]

00:57:49   ever sent an invoice i have wished for [TS]

00:57:51   this because invoices you know they get [TS]

00:57:53   lost i get the lid they get put off it [TS]

00:57:55   you always have people who are late to [TS]

00:57:57   pay invoices and it's great when the [TS]

00:57:59   when freshbooks can automatically [TS]

00:58:01   customizable by you on both the interval [TS]

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00:58:10   think about you don't have to do it kind [TS]

00:58:11   of helps avoid uncomfortable [TS]

00:58:12   conversation [TS]

00:58:13   this is only a tiny sliver of what fresh [TS]

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00:58:23   interacts ntek podcast in the how did [TS]

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00:58:32   when you go and sign up at freshbooks [TS]

00:58:33   calm / ATP thanks to freshbooks unlike [TS]

00:58:37   smile we need to actually wrap up [TS]

00:58:39   addressing of [TS]

00:58:41   the various complaints of the bleeps and [TS]

00:58:42   bloops oh that collecting collecting the [TS]

00:58:45   beliefs of those complaints 11 category [TS]

00:58:47   chain of complaint is i don't like [TS]

00:58:49   change [TS]

00:58:49   that's like the medic at aghori which [TS]

00:58:51   you know that you can't dismiss out of [TS]

00:58:53   hand because who wants their thing to be [TS]

00:58:55   you know you kind of get used to a [TS]

00:58:56   certain structure you don't like change [TS]

00:58:58   rights but i will listen to episode 1 [TS]

00:58:59   and tell me you don't like change [TS]

00:59:01   yeah so we'll put that aside for now but [TS]

00:59:05   it is the thing people said the other [TS]

00:59:06   one surprising number of people i listen [TS]

00:59:09   to the podcast it i don't know how we [TS]

00:59:12   should take this while drifting off to [TS]

00:59:13   sleep or to help them are this help them [TS]

00:59:15   get this look like I mean great it's [TS]

00:59:17   like I'm happy to make a product that [TS]

00:59:19   you enjoy for whatever purpose you know [TS]

00:59:21   you want to use it for that's how you [TS]

00:59:22   want to use its fine but apparently the [TS]

00:59:24   bleeps and bloops are harshing my mellow [TS]

00:59:26   and and jangling them out of this lumber [TS]

00:59:29   that they were drifting into so perhaps [TS]

00:59:30   turning down the volume or picking [TS]

00:59:32   different sounds could help out there [TS]

00:59:34   are those people that have but again [TS]

00:59:35   there's a surprising number of people [TS]

00:59:37   said that [TS]

00:59:37   yeah that seems to be I think that's the [TS]

00:59:39   only complaint I would consider valid [TS]

00:59:42   that we've received so far and you can't [TS]

00:59:43   like you i'm not sure how I feel about [TS]

00:59:45   people complaining that they're having a [TS]

00:59:47   hard time falling asleep to our podcast [TS]

00:59:48   but that it's that that is a semi valid [TS]

00:59:52   complaint if it's that's how they're [TS]

00:59:54   using the podcast and we're helping make [TS]

00:59:56   their life better right helping others [TS]

00:59:58   obviously the more power to him [TS]

00:59:58   obviously the more power to him [TS]

01:00:00   so maybe the volume damn i can you [TS]

01:00:01   imagine people who hear us as the last [TS]

01:00:03   thing they here before they go to sleep [TS]

01:00:04   like what is that mentally healthy but [TS]

01:00:07   that's fine we'll give them awesome [TS]

01:00:08   dreams about us because that's the USB [TS]

01:00:11   hubs a new mac pro's that's what [TS]

01:00:14   nightmares my friend that dreams [TS]

01:00:16   yeah Michael I don't like the sounds [TS]

01:00:18   like I know you went through all the [TS]

01:00:20   list of sounds because you have no sort [TS]

01:00:22   of background of what those sounds are [TS]

01:00:23   where they came from [TS]

01:00:24   it is weird to hear the sounds that you [TS]

01:00:26   picked in there so I I feel like better [TS]

01:00:30   sounds could be fined like their mac [TS]

01:00:32   sounds but I don't like that one of the [TS]

01:00:33   crash sound and of all the star beeps [TS]

01:00:35   you pick that one [TS]

01:00:37   not not my favorites so I think there's [TS]

01:00:40   an area where we could put with [TS]

01:00:41   potentially improved try to make because [TS]

01:00:43   that you know all the reasons you cited [TS]

01:00:44   for the sounds sounds good to me like I [TS]

01:00:46   think they're all good and we just need [TS]

01:00:49   to tamp down the negative so I feel like [TS]

01:00:51   sure so you know if if the issue is just [TS]

01:00:54   like the volume of the sounds i thought [TS]

01:00:55   i had a good balance i I did reduce the [TS]

01:00:56   volume on them from like their stock [TS]

01:00:58   configuration like from like the bra [TS]

01:01:00   sound because it didn't match the levels [TS]

01:01:03   really well otherwise but if I ever do [TS]

01:01:05   some further that's fine after the [TS]

01:01:06   choice of sound it's tricky when you're [TS]

01:01:08   choosing sound effects for pi know this [TS]

01:01:09   is really inside baseball I'm sorry for [TS]

01:01:10   it doesn't care [TS]

01:01:11   you can skip over this chapter when [TS]

01:01:13   you're when you're choosing sound [TS]

01:01:14   effects to go in a pocket i learned this [TS]

01:01:16   in the early days of neutral because i [TS]

01:01:17   would use to to delineate the ads and [TS]

01:01:19   neutral i would you wait a minute that [TS]

01:01:21   was before hello internet say they stole [TS]

01:01:24   everything for us [TS]

01:01:25   alright so I we used the BMW chime from [TS]

01:01:30   the from like the the e whatever series [TS]

01:01:33   whatever that ability [TS]

01:01:34   yeah whatever the pleasant little chime [TS]

01:01:36   is when you like leave the door open or [TS]

01:01:37   start the car whatever i recorded one of [TS]

01:01:39   those from my 3 series and I used we use [TS]

01:01:42   that as our ad bumpers and we got [TS]

01:01:43   complaints from people is also why i [TS]

01:01:45   like-- when I when I bleep the sound [TS]

01:01:47   effects or when I believe a swear word i [TS]

01:01:50   don't use the horn honking sound there [TS]

01:01:53   was a couple really up to the intro why [TS]

01:01:55   would you all sorts of car sounds and i [TS]

01:01:56   settled on just using a hand brake or [TS]

01:01:58   trunk slamming sound because when you're [TS]

01:02:00   in a car and you hear that sound effect [TS]

01:02:03   you don't it kind of throws you off you [TS]

01:02:04   don't know whether like it a real horn [TS]

01:02:06   honking outside like that's it kind of [TS]

01:02:08   scares your or jostles you out of out of [TS]

01:02:10   what you're supposed to pay attention to [TS]

01:02:12   is that the sound of [TS]

01:02:13   I engine or is that now at mp3 right [TS]

01:02:15   nice i setup so anyway never get all did [TS]

01:02:18   you know other carmakers doing that now [TS]

01:02:20   by the way not just BMW i think i read i [TS]

01:02:21   think it was maybe his Volkswagen or [TS]

01:02:23   some other but like just non-luxury non [TS]

01:02:25   fancy brands are doing it anyway it's [TS]

01:02:27   terrible [TS]

01:02:27   BMW leads the way and lots of things [TS]

01:02:29   good and bad anyway so so I learned like [TS]

01:02:31   you got to be careful not to basically [TS]

01:02:33   not to use like current sounds so when I [TS]

01:02:36   chose these sounds are chosen [TS]

01:02:37   specifically so that they wouldn't sound [TS]

01:02:40   like the more recent Mac sound effects [TS]

01:02:43   so like I didn't use the current mac [TS]

01:02:45   startup chime which is actually been [TS]

01:02:46   used for quite some time [TS]

01:02:48   I didn't use that because it was i I [TS]

01:02:52   didn't want people to think that like [TS]

01:02:53   the computer behind them was rebooting [TS]

01:02:55   and their craft a kernel panic like you [TS]

01:02:57   know I don't want I want to like freak [TS]

01:02:58   people out so i had to pick sounds that [TS]

01:03:01   were not recent and it would be funny to [TS]

01:03:03   troll the windows XP users with the USB [TS]

01:03:05   sound and they are also quieter and [TS]

01:03:06   simpler and they wouldn't annoy you [TS]

01:03:08   because they would match each other John [TS]

01:03:09   it's not the non matching it's just that [TS]

01:03:11   I know those sounds from history and [TS]

01:03:13   life and they you know I think [TS]

01:03:14   everything you said is a good idea not [TS]

01:03:16   to use modern sounds don't use sounds [TS]

01:03:17   that could be confused with car sounds [TS]

01:03:18   like all good but just this particular [TS]

01:03:21   one sided they just don't work for me [TS]

01:03:23   again we're gonna reconcile differences [TS]

01:03:25   Merlin has little guitar jangling as the [TS]

01:03:27   beginning and end [TS]

01:03:34   obviously it's probably not appropriate [TS]

01:03:36   for us but on metro works especially [TS]

01:03:38   because it fits in with the sort of [TS]

01:03:39   intro theme thing anyway I think I think [TS]

01:03:42   we can do better here is the other [TS]

01:03:43   angles and no one brought up the people [TS]

01:03:45   who like don't like change and stuff [TS]

01:03:46   having things like this no matter what [TS]

01:03:50   sounds we end up landing on and what [TS]

01:03:52   volume there at or whatever having a [TS]

01:03:54   regular features of the show like the [TS]

01:03:57   song in the middle and the little the [TS]

01:04:00   ring things and the car door opening [TS]

01:04:02   stuff like that that stuff is incredibly [TS]

01:04:04   addictive like you really like Pavlov's [TS]

01:04:07   with ringing the bell and making a dog [TS]

01:04:09   salivates like it is like a literal [TS]

01:04:10   belt-like so for all the people who it's [TS]

01:04:12   weird for you because we're changing it [TS]

01:04:13   totally understand that but for the [TS]

01:04:15   people who are just starting to listen [TS]

01:04:16   to the show now or four people a year [TS]

01:04:18   from now after we've been doing this for [TS]

01:04:19   a while that will become such an [TS]

01:04:21   integral part of the show that we ever [TS]

01:04:22   took it away they would people would [TS]

01:04:23   flip out because humans are just so [TS]

01:04:26   little monkeys and hit you know so what [TS]

01:04:29   I'm saying is hanging in there [TS]

01:04:30   eventually you'll come to love the belt [TS]

01:04:33   maybe not this particular time so what [TS]

01:04:34   we will get we feel like we will get the [TS]

01:04:36   kinks workout and version 2 and three of [TS]

01:04:38   these sounds or whatever [TS]

01:04:39   eventually you won't be able to live [TS]

01:04:41   without them yeah and I mean this is [TS]

01:04:43   that's one of the reasons we have our [TS]

01:04:44   theme song [TS]

01:04:45   so Jonathan Mann the author of our theme [TS]

01:04:47   song he we did the first episode without [TS]

01:04:49   a theme song are after how many we did [TS]

01:04:52   beforehand it was a few and like one [TS]

01:04:54   time we complained that we didn't know [TS]

01:04:56   how to end the show and everything so he [TS]

01:04:57   wrote the theme song and at the same [TS]

01:04:59   time i had actually asked Merlin Mann [TS]

01:05:01   like a week or so earlier if he could [TS]

01:05:04   write us a theme song because because he [TS]

01:05:06   always like musical things like like I [TS]

01:05:08   think that pretty sure it's just him [TS]

01:05:09   playing guitar or playing rockband [TS]

01:05:11   something like he is a musician but I'm [TS]

01:05:13   you know back to work that seems but [TS]

01:05:14   that's theme song was like a high school [TS]

01:05:16   band or whatever high school band open [TS]

01:05:17   that wasn't what it may I was it with [TS]

01:05:19   after high school I don't know anyway a [TS]

01:05:21   serious band you know I bought their [TS]

01:05:23   album with it it's bacon right yeah i [TS]

01:05:26   think that one [TS]

01:05:28   yeah so I actually asked Merlin before [TS]

01:05:33   Jonathan wrote what is now our theme [TS]

01:05:34   song is Merlin to write something for us [TS]

01:05:36   and then when Jonathan wrote his theme [TS]

01:05:38   song we were like this is so good like [TS]

01:05:42   it was getting stuck in all of our heads [TS]

01:05:44   all day and we're like I think we have [TS]

01:05:46   to get use this it's it's too good we [TS]

01:05:48   have to use this it's so infectious she [TS]

01:05:50   gets in all of our heads so much we [TS]

01:05:52   don't have a choice we have so i i went [TS]

01:05:53   to dramatic look I'm sorry I like have [TS]

01:05:55   you if you start anything please stop [TS]

01:05:56   and fortunately he hadn't gotten to it [TS]

01:05:58   yet so it wasn't like a huge deal [TS]

01:06:00   at least I don't think no one hates me [TS]

01:06:01   forever for that because that was like [TS]

01:06:03   three years ago and I think we're still [TS]

01:06:04   friends but yeah like we knew like when [TS]

01:06:07   we we heard the jonathan mann song we [TS]

01:06:09   knew we had to do it by the way quick [TS]

01:06:10   plug for Jonathan man he is launching a [TS]

01:06:13   new podcast called song knots on the [TS]

01:06:15   truth when the radio topia shows you [TS]

01:06:17   know the truth [TS]

01:06:18   it's a big podcast already took anyway [TS]

01:06:20   so look check out song or not spider-man [TS]

01:06:22   which i think is launching shortly or [TS]

01:06:24   might have lied about time we are the [TS]

01:06:25   show anyway [TS]

01:06:26   quick plug for Jonathan's we like him a [TS]

01:06:27   lot because your theme song so anyway [TS]

01:06:29   that is why we we do fun stuff like this [TS]

01:06:34   because it gets in our heads and it [TS]

01:06:35   becomes part of the personality of the [TS]

01:06:36   show and I do I like John your statement [TS]

01:06:39   basically like I just stop you're [TS]

01:06:41   wanting to get used to eventually it's [TS]

01:06:43   not stop your whining is that you will [TS]

01:06:45   not just get used to it you'll come to [TS]

01:06:46   crave it you will need it to be there [TS]

01:06:48   will become a comforting regular as any [TS]

01:06:50   sort of routine as any you know the [TS]

01:06:52   parent of a child knows regular you know [TS]

01:06:53   having routines the time we do this is [TS]

01:06:55   it is comforting to have a routine to [TS]

01:06:57   know that no matter what crazy stuff [TS]

01:06:59   goes on during the show a certain point [TS]

01:07:00   there's going to be these little jingles [TS]

01:07:03   that to mark the asthma is going to be a [TS]

01:07:05   song maybe it's gonna be a car sound [TS]

01:07:06   like those regular things be those [TS]

01:07:08   routines those traditions become comfort [TS]

01:07:11   you will you'll come to love them as [TS]

01:07:13   long as we don't pick terrible sounds [TS]

01:07:14   and words I don't want your 5 bucks a [TS]

01:07:16   month [TS]

01:07:16   yeah alright so you want to talk about a [TS]

01:07:18   topic or just one and here is what we [TS]

01:07:21   sponsor to do if you want i'm kidding we [TS]

01:07:25   talked last week's this is even a great [TS]

01:07:27   topic this is like halfway between [TS]

01:07:28   follow-up and not [TS]

01:07:29   we talked last week about Apple's 40th [TS]

01:07:32   birthday and we went on a journey [TS]

01:07:33   together through our art our finding the [TS]

01:07:37   mac in finding apple and we didn't talk [TS]

01:07:40   much about the imac or at least not [TS]

01:07:42   enough for John so John tell us about [TS]

01:07:44   Apple turning 40 and the imac yeah we're [TS]

01:07:47   running over in our for you think so I [TS]

01:07:49   kind of cut that out of where i would [TS]

01:07:50   have talked about myself but i think it [TS]

01:07:51   is an important part to acknowledge and [TS]

01:07:53   maybe you guys can relate to it because [TS]

01:07:56   maybe you have opinions on it looking at [TS]

01:07:58   it from afar but so the imac was 1998 [TS]

01:08:01   and steve jobs would come back to apple [TS]

01:08:02   and in that people don't remember they [TS]

01:08:06   usually think of the ipod is the [TS]

01:08:07   important turnaround product but the [TS]

01:08:08   imac was just as important if not more [TS]

01:08:10   important for Apple as a company not [TS]

01:08:13   particularly for the industry because in [TS]

01:08:14   the end I go whatever it was just a [TS]

01:08:16   computer people to make computers before [TS]

01:08:17   the important thing that the imac did [TS]

01:08:20   for apple is it seemed like from the [TS]

01:08:22   outside that he gave the entire company [TS]

01:08:25   like a little measure of pride back like [TS]

01:08:28   that it made them believe oh yeah we can [TS]

01:08:30   make cool things that people like they [TS]

01:08:32   were proud of because there was you know [TS]

01:08:33   especially with that pole being your [TS]

01:08:35   death in 1997 and going through [TS]

01:08:38   different CEOs in the years before that [TS]

01:08:40   and running out of money and having [TS]

01:08:42   layoffs and having products that people [TS]

01:08:44   weren't particularly happy with not [TS]

01:08:45   being able to feel the next generation [TS]

01:08:47   less difficult for peter tries and [TS]

01:08:49   windows 95 coming in just stomping all [TS]

01:08:52   over their face and Marco feeling bad [TS]

01:08:54   for people having max it was getting [TS]

01:08:56   harder and harder to be proud to be an [TS]

01:08:58   employee of apple and so Steve Jobs and [TS]

01:09:00   his typical hit what would become a [TS]

01:09:03   typical thing of having a secret group [TS]

01:09:04   work on a secret project and no one knew [TS]

01:09:06   about and having Johnny I make this [TS]

01:09:07   amazing design for that nobody saw [TS]

01:09:09   including the people who are working on [TS]

01:09:11   it that the rumor mill that the mackerel [TS]

01:09:13   which was definitely still thing back [TS]

01:09:15   then I remember them thinking it was a [TS]

01:09:17   set-top box because i think the people [TS]

01:09:18   working on the hardware they didn't get [TS]

01:09:20   to see what case it would go in sort of [TS]

01:09:22   images look like a little flat box and [TS]

01:09:25   so the rumors that came out with a [TS]

01:09:26   capital making television set-top box [TS]

01:09:28   which by the way they did at one point [TS]

01:09:29   and then do now but it's not much of a [TS]

01:09:32   set-top it's more of a set-top coaster [TS]

01:09:34   anyway the separation of the teams [TS]

01:09:37   working on this and the big dramatic [TS]

01:09:38   reveal we made a new computer alright so [TS]

01:09:40   what Apple you made [TS]

01:09:41   new computer that you know you made a [TS]

01:09:42   new Maximilian max and it is both [TS]

01:09:47   minimizing and maximizing is to say that [TS]

01:09:50   was most important about it was the way [TS]

01:09:52   the thing looked it looked weird for a [TS]

01:09:54   computer it was teal it the color blue [TS]

01:09:57   is the name of the beach that i'm not [TS]

01:09:58   going to pronounce after a long way more [TS]

01:10:00   it's like you not want to get involved [TS]

01:10:02   but it was a particular kind of blue eye [TS]

01:10:05   and it was translucent and it was cute [TS]

01:10:08   like the original mac and it was a super [TS]

01:10:11   important product both for Apple because [TS]

01:10:12   it made I feel like it made them proud [TS]

01:10:14   of themselves again and set them on the [TS]

01:10:16   road to greatness and also for the [TS]

01:10:19   entire industry because with that [TS]

01:10:20   product the fact that they were such a [TS]

01:10:22   reaction to it when despite the fact [TS]

01:10:24   that it was mostly just a [TS]

01:10:26   run-of-the-mill mac and other digital [TS]

01:10:27   agency reports and other important [TS]

01:10:29   things for a public setting that aside [TS]

01:10:30   for now but I it convinced the world [TS]

01:10:33   essentially that the way computers look [TS]

01:10:36   is a factor which sounds so stupid it's [TS]

01:10:38   like saying oh this was the first car to [TS]

01:10:39   convince the world the car should look [TS]

01:10:41   good we just everyone accepts the cars [TS]

01:10:43   have to look good everyone except there [TS]

01:10:44   are three cars and pretty cars and so [TS]

01:10:45   many people factor in how the car looks [TS]

01:10:47   in the car buying decisions and cars [TS]

01:10:48   cost thousands and thousands of dollars [TS]

01:10:50   more than computers in most cases and [TS]

01:10:52   yet somehow we're always ok with cars [TS]

01:10:54   having that for our lifetime right [TS]

01:10:56   it took Apple to say these computers you [TS]

01:11:00   should care they look too because who [TS]

01:11:01   wants an ugly 14 years apple had been [TS]

01:11:03   making nice ones but they were still [TS]

01:11:04   somewhat constrained by the orthodoxy of [TS]

01:11:07   the industry in terms of they were [TS]

01:11:09   off-white or black or gray like they [TS]

01:11:13   weren't great color right you know there [TS]

01:11:16   was there was still within the limits of [TS]

01:11:18   the computer as defined by Bible itself [TS]

01:11:21   in the early days as you know the Apple [TS]

01:11:22   to know everything in it and and all the [TS]

01:11:24   other companies that made computers big [TS]

01:11:26   and small they sort of defined a boring [TS]

01:11:29   aesthetic and it took Apple to break out [TS]

01:11:32   of that on the mass scale and say we [TS]

01:11:34   think this is cool and you know I think [TS]

01:11:36   customers will be tickled by the idea of [TS]

01:11:38   a green computer and we'll sell them to [TS]

01:11:40   them and they will buy green computer [TS]

01:11:41   and they will love it because it's green [TS]

01:11:44   and it's just it that that doesn't sound [TS]

01:11:48   it sounds like such a stupid thing in [TS]

01:11:50   the age where we sell everything based [TS]

01:11:51   on colors and all you know our phones [TS]

01:11:53   come in different colors and all sorts [TS]

01:11:55   of you know in cases and everything like [TS]

01:11:56   that but back then that was a very [TS]

01:11:58   important revelation so in the big [TS]

01:11:59   timeline of Apple 40 years you have to [TS]

01:12:01   credit them along with the the bringing [TS]

01:12:05   the GUI to the world into the [TS]

01:12:07   mass-market you have to also create them [TS]

01:12:10   and again it's not they weren't the [TS]

01:12:11   first one the only never do this but [TS]

01:12:12   they essentially brought the idea to the [TS]

01:12:14   mass market that it is important how [TS]

01:12:16   computers look and people will enjoy our [TS]

01:12:19   products more if they are if they like [TS]

01:12:21   how they look [TS]

01:12:23   which again sounds so stupid in [TS]

01:12:24   retrospect was super important for the [TS]

01:12:25   entire industry and led the way for [TS]

01:12:27   everything that came after is the reason [TS]

01:12:28   you had translucent teal irons and can [TS]

01:12:33   openers and stop following the imac is [TS]

01:12:35   people get the wrong idea of like oh we [TS]

01:12:36   just need to make everything translucent [TS]

01:12:38   TL like you're taking the wrong nice i [TS]

01:12:39   like that you're enthusiastic the good [TS]

01:12:41   enthusiasm you may be taking the wrong [TS]

01:12:43   idea for this or maybe you just trying [TS]

01:12:45   to cash in on the imac around either way [TS]

01:12:47   the whole industry of consumer [TS]

01:12:49   electronics I feel like has circled out [TS]

01:12:51   from rippled out from that imac and that [TS]

01:12:54   people are no longer afraid to do [TS]

01:12:56   interesting things with their hardware [TS]

01:12:58   even if everything isn't as exuberant [TS]

01:12:59   lifesavers like obviously they went to [TS]

01:13:01   an extreme to make a point you know but [TS]

01:13:03   today the variety of shapes and textures [TS]

01:13:07   and and yes even colors of electronics [TS]

01:13:09   is much greater [TS]

01:13:11   thanks in no small part Apple yeah i [TS]

01:13:15   remember i mean i was in college from [TS]

01:13:17   2000 2004 and you know it was you know [TS]

01:13:20   it is a like a full you know full-time [TS]

01:13:22   college kind of things we were in a dorm [TS]

01:13:24   room and everybody else in the dorm had [TS]

01:13:27   appliances that they had purchased for [TS]

01:13:30   their dorm room that were you know [TS]

01:13:32   designed in 99 2000 right after the imac [TS]

01:13:36   came out made this big splash and so [TS]

01:13:38   they were all as you mentioned [TS]

01:13:39   translucent plastic microwaves and [TS]

01:13:41   phones and I'd like old you know cordon [TS]

01:13:44   wireless phones not like cellphones is [TS]

01:13:47   any kind of appliance you could buy that [TS]

01:13:51   was relatively inexpensive also the [TS]

01:13:53   other computers i mean the the look of [TS]

01:13:56   like compact towers the time and oh god [TS]

01:14:00   emachines they're just snap there to [TS]

01:14:03   snap on a faceplate like I have the same [TS]

01:14:05   beige box like our [TS]

01:14:07   the one piece of this is plastic can we [TS]

01:14:08   just mold that piece of plastic out of [TS]

01:14:10   college translucent plastic done like [TS]

01:14:12   now it's a beige box with a thanks stuck [TS]

01:14:14   on the front yeah i mean it was it was [TS]

01:14:16   really it was like the very first time I [TS]

01:14:18   think in a while that the entire rest of [TS]

01:14:22   the industry copy what Apple did at [TS]

01:14:24   remarkable pace and did so so poorly [TS]

01:14:27   that you're totally missing the point of [TS]

01:14:30   why this was good and what what parts of [TS]

01:14:32   it made it good and everyone was just [TS]

01:14:34   kind of copied like that the high-level [TS]

01:14:36   design brief the surface details which [TS]

01:14:38   is which is not like I mean that's [TS]

01:14:40   something because it lets not have to [TS]

01:14:41   redesign everything let them not have to [TS]

01:14:43   have a design department like Apple does [TS]

01:14:45   write and let them catch and slightly on [TS]

01:14:47   people who who have a vague notion that [TS]

01:14:49   they saw cool to your computer and they [TS]

01:14:51   wander into bestbuy but I in the [TS]

01:14:53   subsequent years and companies are way [TS]

01:14:55   better now at copying matches Apple but [TS]

01:14:57   anyone in it [TS]

01:14:58   everybody I'm continually impressed by [TS]

01:15:00   these formerly very you know sort of [TS]

01:15:03   boring and uninteresting and risk-averse [TS]

01:15:07   pc makers all which are obviously hiring [TS]

01:15:11   their own design departments to make [TS]

01:15:13   interesting computer designs i mean i [TS]

01:15:16   like them but they are way more [TS]

01:15:18   interesting that used to be like the [TS]

01:15:19   microsoft surface is interesting with [TS]

01:15:22   that weird hinge thing that HP one [TS]

01:15:24   that's super slim with little shiny [TS]

01:15:26   chrome hinges and everything [TS]

01:15:27   there's no way that the pc industry of [TS]

01:15:30   the nineties those companies would even [TS]

01:15:32   have a clue how to do that so they're [TS]

01:15:34   not just taking their existing computers [TS]

01:15:36   and talking about your faceplates on [TS]

01:15:37   them even when they were copying apple [TS]

01:15:39   by saying we're going to make silver [TS]

01:15:41   aluminum laptops to look exactly like [TS]

01:15:43   apples ones they still did a better job [TS]

01:15:45   of that they did a copying the the imac [TS]

01:15:47   with the time the imac they didn't know [TS]

01:15:50   there but from their elbow had no idea [TS]

01:15:52   what they were doing there just like put [TS]

01:15:54   something t-line it [TS]

01:15:55   are we done now I think so good ship it [TS]

01:15:58   it was literally just bolted on like [TS]

01:16:00   that you like they had they already had [TS]

01:16:02   the regular mid-tower they were shipping [TS]

01:16:03   and they can shove this giant bulbous [TS]

01:16:06   faceplate on it that had this little [TS]

01:16:08   translucent second you could pop out and [TS]

01:16:09   replace the color if you really wanted [TS]

01:16:11   to like I wow it was it was a really [TS]

01:16:14   dark time for bc's yeah but always think [TS]

01:16:17   they got the message the message was and [TS]

01:16:19   it's not that [TS]

01:16:20   that was selling so much like the imac [TS]

01:16:22   was selling millions and millions and [TS]

01:16:23   millions more than they were saying [TS]

01:16:24   they're still selling more than Apple [TS]

01:16:25   especially in those days it's just that [TS]

01:16:27   they saw the splashing it's like don't [TS]

01:16:29   people care about our computer like they [TS]

01:16:31   care about that our computers boring two [TS]

01:16:33   people want their computers to look nice [TS]

01:16:35   like this is this strange awakening of [TS]

01:16:37   again things that sounds so stupid and [TS]

01:16:39   obvious to us now but back then if you [TS]

01:16:42   didn't live through it may seem crazy to [TS]

01:16:43   think that so many of the most dominant [TS]

01:16:45   computer makers in the world this this [TS]

01:16:48   kind of design was not even on their [TS]

01:16:49   radar as far as they're concerned a mac [TS]

01:16:51   to see I was exactly the same as a pc XD [TS]

01:16:54   case which Putin just was not the case [TS]

01:16:57   and mac users can see it but nobody else [TS]

01:16:59   could until Apple made something teal [TS]

01:17:01   and translucent this is a potentially [TS]

01:17:04   related but Marco talking about college [TS]

01:17:06   and in with people with imax not having [TS]

01:17:09   I Maxwell not made me remember that mark [TS]

01:17:12   and I are the same age so we went to [TS]

01:17:13   school same time and when i was at [TS]

01:17:15   Virginia Tech they had and I believe [TS]

01:17:18   still do a very very large off-center [TS]

01:17:21   off campus computer lab called the math [TS]

01:17:23   Emporium and it was specifically suited [TS]

01:17:26   for math related work but it had at the [TS]

01:17:29   time I gives ilion max in it and I [TS]

01:17:32   remember two things with it vividly [TS]

01:17:34   about the mac Emporium in terms of the [TS]

01:17:36   hardware they are number one the hockey [TS]

01:17:38   puck mouse is the world is the worst [TS]

01:17:40   mouse that's ever been created in the [TS]

01:17:41   history man [TS]

01:17:42   number two I vividly remember there [TS]

01:17:44   being g4 cubes all over it when I was [TS]

01:17:47   there there were like hundreds of them [TS]

01:17:49   and I remember going to this place and [TS]

01:17:51   thinking wow that is a very peculiar [TS]

01:17:53   design for a computer man that's kinda [TS]

01:17:55   cool and and I remember also v and [TS]

01:17:59   seeing into my full tower desktop that I [TS]

01:18:02   had my dorm room and I thought I was the [TS]

01:18:03   coolest kid in world because some of the [TS]

01:18:05   guy down the hall show me what what VNC [TS]

01:18:07   was and the fact that i could log into [TS]

01:18:09   my computer from somewhere else it was [TS]

01:18:11   mind-blowing [TS]

01:18:12   oh that was amazing back then oh yeah we [TS]

01:18:14   didn't have the x window system on your [TS]

01:18:16   college campus not good run programs on [TS]

01:18:20   a different computer and have the result [TS]

01:18:21   displayed on your computer like it was a [TS]

01:18:24   terminal for the x window system we call [TS]

01:18:26   it an xterm yeah I know what you're [TS]

01:18:28   saying and actually i think that the [TS]

01:18:30   math emporium was largely largely [TS]

01:18:31   running on some sort of citrix that [TS]

01:18:33   which is a similar idea but yeah if I [TS]

01:18:37   just remember just a sea of g four cubes [TS]

01:18:40   I wonder whether I've never seen a road [TS]

01:18:42   like I'd seen people who had been [TS]

01:18:44   suckered into buying a lot of various [TS]

01:18:46   handsome computers not suckered but you [TS]

01:18:48   know like a computer that later turned [TS]

01:18:49   out to not be a particular popular [TS]

01:18:51   popular model sort of faded away like [TS]

01:18:53   one i remember is that [TS]

01:18:54   rose-hulman which is a small college [TS]

01:18:57   somewhere that a friend of mine went to [TS]

01:18:58   the next salesman visited rose-hulman [TS]

01:19:00   and convince them the next computers [TS]

01:19:02   where the best things like since sliced [TS]

01:19:04   bread and honestly they were the best [TS]

01:19:06   mixing slice bread they sold next [TS]

01:19:07   computers to rose-hulman they were [TS]

01:19:09   everywhere and then next was not so much [TS]

01:19:12   into selling Hardware pretty shortly [TS]

01:19:14   after that which must have felt bad if [TS]

01:19:16   you're the one in charge of buying [TS]

01:19:16   harborough's homeland on the other hand [TS]

01:19:18   if you went to rose-hulman during that [TS]

01:19:19   time everybody got to use like next cube [TS]

01:19:21   next laughs which is which is like [TS]

01:19:23   living in the future [TS]

01:19:24   really because even though it was kind [TS]

01:19:25   of boring and great a lot of the [TS]

01:19:27   displays for grayscale instead of [TS]

01:19:30   full-color next step is still pretty [TS]

01:19:32   amazing that Hardware look awesome got a [TS]

01:19:34   bunch of antibiotic our final sponsor [TS]

01:19:37   tonight is betterment go to betterment [TS]

01:19:39   calm / ATP betterment is investing made [TS]

01:19:42   better now it's never too late to start [TS]

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01:19:46   goals financial services industry is [TS]

01:19:49   embrace technology with the entry of [TS]

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01:19:57   you've probably been hearing a lot about [TS]

01:19:58   them in TechCrunch the wall street [TS]

01:20:00   journal and other major news outlets [TS]

01:20:01   betterment makes it easier more [TS]

01:20:03   straightforward and less expensive to [TS]

01:20:05   invest with way lower fees than what you [TS]

01:20:08   usually see from financial services [TS]

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01:20:27   this is the perfect time to get started [TS]

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01:20:46   betterment investing made better to do I [TS]

01:20:51   think we found our bumper sounds but we [TS]

01:20:53   just have all of us make sounds with [TS]

01:20:55   their mouths mentor couples put them in [TS]

01:20:57   it will solve the problem of like this [TS]

01:20:59   too jarring because I just want to hear [TS]

01:21:00   your voices this will be our voices it [TS]

01:21:02   won't be but I familiar sound in a car [TS]

01:21:05   or of the modern computer and royalty [TS]

01:21:08   free rent i don't know i might wanna [TS]

01:21:10   world mine [TS]

01:21:11   yes seriously one of us might change [TS]

01:21:13   your mind you're now you're now that [TS]

01:21:14   you're recording artist the vocal [TS]

01:21:16   stylings of Mark Harmon yeah it's that [TS]

01:21:18   change licensing of like how you know [TS]

01:21:20   how we can use Clips so if you go [TS]

01:21:21   through ASCAP or whatever [TS]

01:21:23   yes alright those are it so few days ago [TS]

01:21:26   as we record actually just couple days [TS]

01:21:28   ago I wrote a post coming to the defense [TS]

01:21:30   of the Apple watch the post was entitled [TS]

01:21:32   poor Apple watch and I just feel like [TS]

01:21:36   lately it's been very trendy to poop all [TS]

01:21:41   over the Apple watch [TS]

01:21:42   oh it's a piece of crap it's so slow [TS]

01:21:44   it's too fat the software doesn't do [TS]

01:21:46   anything useful [TS]

01:21:47   I it's not cool look at me i'm going to [TS]

01:21:51   get either mechanical watch or not we [TS]

01:21:54   used to watch it all and that's fine you [TS]

01:21:57   know if that's fine for you or for [TS]

01:21:59   Merlin or from Marco that's fine they do [TS]

01:22:01   what you gotta do but I feel like nobody [TS]

01:22:03   was coming to the defense of the Apple [TS]

01:22:04   watch and so I thought you know what I [TS]

01:22:07   will come to the defense of the Apple [TS]

01:22:09   watch and i just wrote a post saying [TS]

01:22:12   that you know what I like my watch and [TS]

01:22:14   it is fat and it is slow and the apps [TS]

01:22:18   are pretty much entirely useless but for [TS]

01:22:21   me that's okay I still like having the [TS]

01:22:25   smart features of my smart watch on my [TS]

01:22:28   wrist I think a lot of this may come [TS]

01:22:30   from the fact that I leave the house to [TS]

01:22:33   go to work and i'm not saying that to be [TS]

01:22:34   snarky you're smart i'm saying that [TS]

01:22:37   genuinely that I have appointments and [TS]

01:22:40   meetings and things that happen [TS]

01:22:42   throughout my day obligations throughout [TS]

01:22:45   my day that have to happen certain times [TS]

01:22:48   and so having my next calendar [TS]

01:22:51   appointment on my watch face is very [TS]

01:22:53   convenient [TS]

01:22:54   additionally i don't get to leave my the [TS]

01:22:58   building [TS]

01:22:59   work and occasionally the house if [TS]

01:23:01   declan's awake [TS]

01:23:03   I don't get to leave where I am whenever [TS]

01:23:06   I want just on a lark and so having the [TS]

01:23:09   temperature on my watch face is really [TS]

01:23:11   nice and on top of that i like having [TS]

01:23:13   activity rings particularly the standing [TS]

01:23:15   because as we all know I happen to be a [TS]

01:23:17   blue ring stud [TS]

01:23:19   so yes there's a lot to dislike about [TS]

01:23:21   the Apple watch full stop [TS]

01:23:22   I completely agree the apps are useless [TS]

01:23:24   i never use them i really never used [TS]

01:23:25   glances for the most part i wish we had [TS]

01:23:28   custom watch faces i would love to be [TS]

01:23:31   able to do more with complications [TS]

01:23:33   either have more of them on the screen [TS]

01:23:34   or or maybe have them be more [TS]

01:23:37   intelligent somehow i'm not even sure [TS]

01:23:38   how but all in all I still really like [TS]

01:23:41   by Apple watch and I'm looking around [TS]

01:23:43   and I'm starting to feel like i'm the [TS]

01:23:46   only one [TS]

01:23:47   John are you wearing yours now I right [TS]

01:23:49   time we talked about this a while ago [TS]

01:23:51   yeah I bailed on using it mostly because [TS]

01:23:54   i found myself going through entire days [TS]

01:23:57   without having any meaningful [TS]

01:23:59   interaction with it including check me [TS]

01:24:01   for the time which is not a habit i had [TS]

01:24:03   and I'm not a watch where and it annoys [TS]

01:24:05   me to have a thing on my wrist so i have [TS]

01:24:07   i have built-in negatives and that [TS]

01:24:08   anything you buy rest overcome with my [TS]

01:24:10   aversion to ever having anything on my [TS]

01:24:11   wrist ever and I don't have any habits [TS]

01:24:13   built-in for watching so i need to [TS]

01:24:15   deposit of to offset that and the [TS]

01:24:16   positives evaporated I stopped wearing [TS]

01:24:18   it and the positives were the positives [TS]

01:24:21   were like I you know I like the [TS]

01:24:23   notifications like the text i like the [TS]

01:24:25   activity tracking but there wasn't [TS]

01:24:26   enough to overcome my desire to not have [TS]

01:24:28   something on my wrist although now that [TS]

01:24:29   i'm about to know travel i'm going to [TS]

01:24:32   bring my watch with me and probably [TS]

01:24:33   we're on vacation because i'm walking [TS]

01:24:35   around a different city it is convenient [TS]

01:24:37   to be able to for example set a [TS]

01:24:38   destination on your phone and put your [TS]

01:24:40   phone in your pocket and not to take it [TS]

01:24:41   out again and just walk there and have [TS]

01:24:42   your wrist tell you which way to go [TS]

01:24:44   same thing for driving i kind of like [TS]

01:24:45   that you know i don't need it when I'm [TS]

01:24:46   going to and from work every day is you [TS]

01:24:48   can you know there's no directions need [TS]

01:24:50   to have but if you're an unfamiliar [TS]

01:24:51   place driving around [TS]

01:24:52   it's nice to have that so I still think [TS]

01:24:54   it has value [TS]

01:24:55   I still like it I feel like how it looks [TS]

01:24:58   I still don't like wearing a watch so [TS]

01:25:01   yeah that's pretty much where it is son [TS]

01:25:03   and spends all his time on my dresser do [TS]

01:25:06   you hate having something on your wrist [TS]

01:25:08   because of your shag carpet arm hair or [TS]

01:25:10   just because you hate having something [TS]

01:25:11   on your wrist [TS]

01:25:12   I think it's mostly because of RS I [TS]

01:25:13   actually like the same reason I stopped [TS]

01:25:15   wearing my wedding ring is that was very [TS]

01:25:17   sensitive to have anything in that area [TS]

01:25:19   as I'm sitting there typing all day of [TS]

01:25:21   just everything about it's sensitive and [TS]

01:25:22   want any pressure on anything grabbing [TS]

01:25:24   it on anything rubbing against it even [TS]

01:25:26   like the wrong kind of like sleeve cuffs [TS]

01:25:28   when I wear long sleeves can bother me [TS]

01:25:29   so yeah and that I don't have any in [TS]

01:25:33   green habits of like I'm always looking [TS]

01:25:34   I risks i just left again I think we [TS]

01:25:37   discuss for last time I watch like [TS]

01:25:38   middle school when I just came old [TS]

01:25:40   enough to have a watch and wanted to try [TS]

01:25:41   it out and I work for a little while [TS]

01:25:43   like some plastic digital watching [TS]

01:25:45   decided it wasn't for me so I'm just [TS]

01:25:47   gotta watch person [TS]

01:25:48   alright so i wanted to save you for last [TS]

01:25:51   Marco to your website [TS]

01:25:53   well i mean first of all I i think it's [TS]

01:25:56   not a very good argument to say like [TS]

01:25:58   well it seems trained to hate this thing [TS]

01:25:59   right now you know that's that's just [TS]

01:26:01   whoever you're reading which includes [TS]

01:26:02   people like me who who are not cooling [TS]

01:26:05   or have cooled on the Apple watch em die [TS]

01:26:08   I think what we're seeing here I mean [TS]

01:26:10   there's a number of factors here I don't [TS]

01:26:13   question the apple watch utility for a [TS]

01:26:15   lot of people but and in fact you know I [TS]

01:26:18   final utility my word as well it's just [TS]

01:26:20   you know the the downside of it bother [TS]

01:26:21   me too much and I found I preferred [TS]

01:26:23   regular watches rather than you know the [TS]

01:26:25   guy I went from no watch to an Apple [TS]

01:26:28   watch 20 I like watches turns out but [TS]

01:26:31   most of what i do is tell the time and [TS]

01:26:33   regular watches just do a way better job [TS]

01:26:36   of that for my purposes because they're [TS]

01:26:38   always on and not charge a better what I [TS]

01:26:41   found that you know i think if you look [TS]

01:26:44   kind of like globally step back from you [TS]

01:26:47   know what any individual's personal [TS]

01:26:49   needs are and personal opinions about [TS]

01:26:50   the Apple watch our i think you can step [TS]

01:26:52   back and you can you can see this [TS]

01:26:54   product as really a really mixed bag as [TS]

01:26:57   a one-point product and there's a few [TS]

01:27:00   things that exacerbate this one of which [TS]

01:27:02   is that it's going more than a year as a [TS]

01:27:04   one point out and as we I mean we talked [TS]

01:27:07   about this before so I don't go too far [TS]

01:27:08   into it but like it's looking like we're [TS]

01:27:10   not going to get a good successor to it [TS]

01:27:13   for you know at least now which is now [TS]

01:27:15   is like a year after it came out or at [TS]

01:27:17   least not gettin it now we might not [TS]

01:27:19   even get it in until the the summer or [TS]

01:27:21   the fall or even next spring we don't [TS]

01:27:23   actually know when they're gonna be [TS]

01:27:25   second generation and where the second [TS]

01:27:27   generation will be very good for you [TS]

01:27:28   very much of an improvement in the areas [TS]

01:27:31   that that you know any person thinks [TS]

01:27:33   that it needs it so we we are still [TS]

01:27:35   judging this thing on generation one but [TS]

01:27:36   generation one is not only longer than [TS]

01:27:39   these things usually are usually a year [TS]

01:27:40   or less so it only being a long [TS]

01:27:43   generation one but also I feel like the [TS]

01:27:45   generation 1 hardware and software were [TS]

01:27:48   both pretty mediocre on the scale of [TS]

01:27:52   like various Apple first gen products [TS]

01:27:55   you know certainly not every Apple first [TS]

01:27:57   prophecy is is a great product or a huge [TS]

01:28:00   hit [TS]

01:28:00   but I think as they go especially in [TS]

01:28:02   recent years as they go [TS]

01:28:04   I think the watch has been a pretty [TS]

01:28:05   mediocre one you know in terms of like [TS]

01:28:07   bugs performance limitations things like [TS]

01:28:10   that what we're finding with Apple I've [TS]

01:28:13   talked before about this issue with like [TS]

01:28:16   the low-hanging fruit has all been [TS]

01:28:17   picked everywhere and and so what we [TS]

01:28:20   have now is like the the kind of [TS]

01:28:23   baseline products the max the iphones [TS]

01:28:27   into most to most of a degree the ipads [TS]

01:28:29   these things are mature the innovation [TS]

01:28:33   on them has slowed but they're pretty [TS]

01:28:35   awesome [TS]

01:28:36   they have you know that there they have [TS]

01:28:38   great performance they have great [TS]

01:28:40   physical characteristics a great balance [TS]

01:28:42   between like size and weight and battery [TS]

01:28:44   life for the most part we know very few [TS]

01:28:46   exceptions [TS]

01:28:47   these are all very mature products but [TS]

01:28:50   Apple is a company that depends on [TS]

01:28:53   trying to sell its customers more [TS]

01:28:56   devices and trying to sell devices to [TS]

01:28:59   more customers so is Apple's job as a [TS]

01:29:03   hardware maker to just try stuff in the [TS]

01:29:05   market to say you know hey dude you know [TS]

01:29:07   everybody has a phone like people of [TS]

01:29:09   computers multiple computers is [TS]

01:29:10   everybody also need a tablet let's try [TS]

01:29:12   is everybody also need to watch [TS]

01:29:14   let's try everybody also need a TV box [TS]

01:29:16   let's try you know they that is their [TS]

01:29:18   job but all these mature things that are [TS]

01:29:22   at the core of things you know basically [TS]

01:29:23   computers in the phones maybe the [TS]

01:29:24   tablets that covers most people's needs [TS]

01:29:27   so we are custom to judging apple on [TS]

01:29:30   their products based on those products [TS]

01:29:32   those core products most of the computer [TS]

01:29:34   on the phone which is like yeah sure [TS]

01:29:37   almost everyone could use those [TS]

01:29:39   and so it's easy to look at that and say [TS]

01:29:41   well if Apple makes a computer or phone [TS]

01:29:44   that sucks for me [TS]

01:29:46   that kind of sucks for everybody and and [TS]

01:29:49   why they do it you know and whether [TS]

01:29:50   that's true or not these people to look [TS]

01:29:52   at that way with the watch i feel like [TS]

01:29:55   we went into it with that kind of [TS]

01:29:56   expectation and a lot of people bought [TS]

01:29:58   it is an expectation of like it's a it's [TS]

01:30:01   a new high-profile apple product line of [TS]

01:30:04   course it's gonna be for me [TS]

01:30:06   of course it's going to be for everybody [TS]

01:30:08   and of course is going to be good and I [TS]

01:30:11   think what we're seeing is it's hard to [TS]

01:30:13   find new things that are for everybody [TS]

01:30:15   in technology new things are going to be [TS]

01:30:18   potentially as big as phones or [TS]

01:30:19   computers or tablets or anything else [TS]

01:30:22   this is our heart problems and the watch [TS]

01:30:26   you know because of the incredibly [TS]

01:30:28   strong demands that the conflicting [TS]

01:30:31   demands of that kind of product you have [TS]

01:30:34   severe size constraints severe power [TS]

01:30:37   constraints [TS]

01:30:38   it's really too is your cost constraints [TS]

01:30:40   it's just very hard to to get a good [TS]

01:30:44   SmartWatch product on the market it's [TS]

01:30:47   just really hard to do and I think we're [TS]

01:30:49   seeing is this is an apple product that [TS]

01:30:52   we thought was going to be for everybody [TS]

01:30:53   but just isn't it's just not you know [TS]

01:30:57   it's just like you can look at any kind [TS]

01:30:59   of watch and you can even know kind of [TS]

01:31:01   watches for everybody not even rolex or [TS]

01:31:04   Omega Omega people sorry ahead not not [TS]

01:31:06   every watch for everybody and the Apple [TS]

01:31:09   watch it has not replaced all watches [TS]

01:31:11   and is not replace everybody's phones or [TS]

01:31:13   anything like that and never will [TS]

01:31:15   it is it is a product that is going to [TS]

01:31:18   work for some people but it's not a home [TS]

01:31:21   run for everybody or even the people who [TS]

01:31:23   works for having a home run necessarily [TS]

01:31:25   for them it's just decent maybe you know [TS]

01:31:27   but it's it's hard to make new stuff [TS]

01:31:31   that is going to be really great anymore [TS]

01:31:33   because so much has already been made [TS]

01:31:34   and has already matured in these areas [TS]

01:31:36   in the areas of Technology and you know [TS]

01:31:38   things like this that that people are [TS]

01:31:40   people are you know working on the [TS]

01:31:42   industry so I I don't think it's bad to [TS]

01:31:46   say the apple watch isn't for me and I [TS]

01:31:49   don't think it's a sign of the watch has [TS]

01:31:51   failed [TS]

01:31:52   it to into if a lot of people think it's [TS]

01:31:55   not for them but i also think that the [TS]

01:31:57   watch as a one-point product was really [TS]

01:32:00   done with a lot of mediocrity and it is [TS]

01:32:03   it is not unfair to criticize that it is [TS]

01:32:06   it is these are real shortcomings it has [TS]

01:32:08   it has real problems real shortcomings [TS]

01:32:10   really you know real design ? sand and [TS]

01:32:14   missed opportunities and we're choices [TS]

01:32:17   they made and all this will probably be [TS]

01:32:19   fixed over time I hope it is and maybe [TS]

01:32:21   someday I'll go back to it as a brother [TS]

01:32:23   part that i use on a regular basis [TS]

01:32:24   because there are things about it that I [TS]

01:32:26   do miss you know I i think i'm mostly [TS]

01:32:28   mr. while driving [TS]

01:32:29   that's like you know to have like a [TS]

01:32:30   quick glance of like why did my phones [TS]

01:32:32   vibrate in my pocket long driving which [TS]

01:32:35   is probably safe and I probably [TS]

01:32:36   shouldn't even look at the watch but [TS]

01:32:37   that is what is it and so overall though [TS]

01:32:41   I I think again these are hard problems [TS]

01:32:44   and where we are in an era now where the [TS]

01:32:47   new things that Apple makes are not [TS]

01:32:50   going to be guaranteed to be mass market [TS]

01:32:53   and that's probably okay i think the [TS]

01:32:56   watch was a good bet for mass-market [TS]

01:32:58   though because wearables car have a much [TS]

01:33:03   broader appeal than computing devices [TS]

01:33:05   because many more people spend more time [TS]

01:33:07   wearing things during the day they spend [TS]

01:33:09   using computers nothing everybody's [TS]

01:33:11   watch where but wearables as a category [TS]

01:33:13   like if you had to pick a category of [TS]

01:33:15   areas that Apple should get into the [TS]

01:33:17   kind of on the cusp of like well we [TS]

01:33:19   mostly do computery things and we're [TS]

01:33:21   getting to the point where you can have [TS]

01:33:23   a computer anything that's part of [TS]

01:33:24   clothing or jewelry in some way I does [TS]

01:33:28   that mean glasses like Google was doing [TS]

01:33:30   does that mean watches it mean like a [TS]

01:33:31   little fitness turd like Fitbit is doing [TS]

01:33:34   or something else as a category i think [TS]

01:33:37   this was a very smart bet for Apple to [TS]

01:33:40   get into their first entry in the [TS]

01:33:42   category you know they learn that move [TS]

01:33:44   on i hope they don't abandon it because [TS]

01:33:46   if you're looking for another mass [TS]

01:33:47   market thing I think that the categories [TS]

01:33:51   are looking at are all potential winners [TS]

01:33:53   lots of people watch television or watch [TS]

01:33:55   a video or something having to do with [TS]

01:33:56   TV is a good idea [TS]

01:33:58   lots of people have cell phones that was [TS]

01:33:59   a good market from lots of people where [TS]

01:34:02   things also a good market and add [TS]

01:34:04   as computers get smaller and lighter [TS]

01:34:06   weight and the power requirements go [TS]

01:34:08   down and so on and so forth that that [TS]

01:34:11   entire category will only become more [TS]

01:34:13   viable so if i had to look like broad [TS]

01:34:17   strokes long-term product strategy i [TS]

01:34:19   think it was really smart for Apple to [TS]

01:34:21   get into wearables and I really hope [TS]

01:34:22   they do stick it out and learn their [TS]

01:34:23   lessons make better products keep [TS]

01:34:25   iterating and innovating because these [TS]

01:34:28   type of products played all their [TS]

01:34:29   strengths miniaturization mass [TS]

01:34:32   manufacturing of beautiful objects [TS]

01:34:34   especially the ability to make things [TS]

01:34:35   that are appealing to people visually [TS]

01:34:36   they were just talking about with the [TS]

01:34:37   imac that's important when you're [TS]

01:34:39   wearing it an apple has shown with their [TS]

01:34:41   watch brands and their watch designs [TS]

01:34:42   within the constraints of the tech [TS]

01:34:43   available they're actually pretty good [TS]

01:34:44   at that part of it too [TS]

01:34:45   yeah they just have to figure out how to [TS]

01:34:47   make the product part of it and and if I [TS]

01:34:49   think about the first ipod was pretty [TS]

01:34:51   crappy to it's just that the first ipod [TS]

01:34:53   had such huge positive 20 allies [TS]

01:34:56   negatives in the watches like that some [TS]

01:34:58   positives that way someone's negatives [TS]

01:34:59   but net is not as compelling product [TS]

01:35:03   yeah and and ultimately I i think what [TS]

01:35:06   would give me concerned about the watch [TS]

01:35:07   is the apparent slow pace of progress [TS]

01:35:10   and you know we will see what happens [TS]

01:35:13   the next time there is a substantial [TS]

01:35:14   update to even the hardware or the [TS]

01:35:16   software will see you know I this could [TS]

01:35:18   totally change my tone about it but [TS]

01:35:20   right now it appears to be moving pretty [TS]

01:35:22   slowly I don't know I I don't outright [TS]

01:35:27   disagree with anything you just said but [TS]

01:35:29   if we really step back and think about [TS]

01:35:32   it [TS]

01:35:32   first of all as someone who works in an [TS]

01:35:36   office building like John does i see so [TS]

01:35:39   many Fitbit bracelet he watching things [TS]

01:35:43   i can't even count them and I concur [TS]

01:35:46   with what John said that wearables are a [TS]

01:35:50   market that I think it's going to be [TS]

01:35:53   getting a bit going to be a bigger [TS]

01:35:55   market with time and I think that Apple [TS]

01:35:57   playing in this market is a wise choice [TS]

01:35:59   recently it was the day or two ago I [TS]

01:36:03   watched that classic Louis CK Louie CK a [TS]

01:36:07   video when he was on Conan about people [TS]

01:36:11   getting pissed off about not having [TS]

01:36:12   Wi-Fi and they're flying tube [TS]

01:36:15   you know people getting all upset about [TS]

01:36:16   the fact that they're in an airplane and [TS]

01:36:17   don't have Wi-Fi and this is not the [TS]

01:36:21   same as is people getting upset about [TS]

01:36:23   their watch but at the same time I have [TS]

01:36:28   a mini computer on my friggin wrist that [TS]

01:36:30   can with limitations connect to almost [TS]

01:36:34   all the known information on the planet [TS]

01:36:36   on the internet that's pretty freaking [TS]

01:36:38   amazing and i agree that there's a lot [TS]

01:36:41   that's frustrating about my watch i [TS]

01:36:43   never use apps for of several different [TS]

01:36:45   reasons number one of which it's so so [TS]

01:36:48   so to do any thing and it's infuriating [TS]

01:36:54   but not nevertheless i have this device [TS]

01:36:58   that tracks my heartbeat it tracks how [TS]

01:37:01   much I'm standing how much I'm moving it [TS]

01:37:03   tracks when my next appointment is like [TS]

01:37:05   John was saying if I'm in a city that [TS]

01:37:07   i'm not familiar with and I'm walking [TS]

01:37:08   around I can do so without having my [TS]

01:37:11   phone out screaming I'm a tourist please [TS]

01:37:13   Robbie there's so many things for me [TS]

01:37:16   that I really like about this and that [TS]

01:37:19   impressed me so deeply about it [TS]

01:37:21   especially given the unbelievable [TS]

01:37:22   engineering constraints that that were [TS]

01:37:24   that this product was made under its to [TS]

01:37:28   me it's such an impressive product and [TS]

01:37:30   there is so much that could be done to [TS]

01:37:34   make it better Marco you're absolutely [TS]

01:37:35   right about that i mean i can't argue [TS]

01:37:37   with with that at all but for me it's [TS]

01:37:40   still it's still something that adds [TS]

01:37:43   value to my life and I still like it and [TS]

01:37:45   I just feel like I think the thing of it [TS]

01:37:47   is is that it was like a switch flipped [TS]

01:37:49   and suddenly everyone was talking about [TS]

01:37:51   how much they don't want to wear an [TS]

01:37:53   Apple watch anymore and that in and of [TS]

01:37:54   itself that's fine but it just seemed [TS]

01:37:56   weird to me and I felt bad for the poor [TS]

01:37:58   little apple watch and i still feel bad [TS]

01:37:59   for the poor little apple watch the cute [TS]

01:38:01   little feller and and I feel like [TS]

01:38:03   somebody needed to build it up a little [TS]

01:38:05   bit i don't know enough people who are [TS]

01:38:07   not tech nerds who have an Apple watch [TS]

01:38:10   know how it's playing in a non-tech [TS]

01:38:12   marry crackle obviously we're all [TS]

01:38:13   talking about the technology and they're [TS]

01:38:14   the ones writing things about how [TS]

01:38:16   they're not using their watching [TS]

01:38:17   whatever and yet it did kind of all come [TS]

01:38:18   together it's because i think people [TS]

01:38:20   slowly stopped wearing them and then the [TS]

01:38:22   people who need to tell the world that [TS]

01:38:24   they slowly stopped wearing them had to [TS]

01:38:25   write stories about it and then other [TS]

01:38:27   people saw the stories and the felt safe [TS]

01:38:28   that make [TS]

01:38:29   now admit that they slowly stopped [TS]

01:38:30   wearing them which is fine i guess how [TS]

01:38:31   the press cycle goes but it's still all [TS]

01:38:33   within just the sort of tech nerd [TS]

01:38:35   circles and I'm sure that watch selling [TS]

01:38:38   outside technology circles you can tell [TS]

01:38:40   by the huge spike in sales that they [TS]

01:38:41   seem to have from everything we're able [TS]

01:38:43   to understand from Apple's uh closely [TS]

01:38:46   guarded secrets about how much how many [TS]

01:38:48   watches they're selling exactly during [TS]

01:38:50   the holidays because technically don't [TS]

01:38:51   say they're spending the holidays they [TS]

01:38:53   buy it as soon as it's released [TS]

01:38:54   no I'm actually are you know anecdotally [TS]

01:38:55   I've seen since the holidays I've seen a [TS]

01:38:59   lot more Apple watches in the real world [TS]

01:39:01   oftentimes on on you know non-geeks or [TS]

01:39:04   at least people who speak status is [TS]

01:39:05   unknown to me [TS]

01:39:06   yeah because i'm at something they must [TS]

01:39:08   be selling them i just i don't know [TS]

01:39:09   those people so I can't sort of get a [TS]

01:39:11   read on like not none of my family or [TS]

01:39:14   friends who are not tech nerds have an [TS]

01:39:15   Apple watch i would love to know what [TS]

01:39:17   regular people think of the Apple watch [TS]

01:39:18   is still kind of Shirley Apple knows [TS]

01:39:21   because it's their job to know i can [TS]

01:39:23   imagine regular people not being is [TS]

01:39:26   picky about it but also not becoming [TS]

01:39:29   eternally addicted to it like they were [TS]

01:39:31   once you start selling ipods the regular [TS]

01:39:33   people once that wasn't a [TS]

01:39:34   four-hundred-dollar accessories only [TS]

01:39:35   work with macs like once you know yet [TS]

01:39:37   the Dominions stuff people love their [TS]

01:39:39   ipods man they love them like and do [TS]

01:39:41   people love their Apple watch her do [TS]

01:39:43   they say it's pretty cool and it was a [TS]

01:39:44   good Christmas present that I got but i [TS]

01:39:47   don't know if they are so incredibly in [TS]

01:39:49   love with it as they were with their [TS]

01:39:51   smartphones or their their iPods or [TS]

01:39:54   whatever so we'll see next Christmas and [TS]

01:39:56   and how they rate on this i'm good i'm [TS]

01:39:58   entirely open to the idea that Apple can [TS]

01:40:02   try other kinds of wearables whether [TS]

01:40:03   it's fitness turd or you know an earring [TS]

01:40:06   or a ring or something involving glasses [TS]

01:40:09   and there was discussion on Twitter [TS]

01:40:11   today about Apple cables are panic was [TS]

01:40:14   disappointed that Apple wasn't anywhere [TS]

01:40:16   on the radar when it came to VR and if [TS]

01:40:18   you want to do vr you had to basically [TS]

01:40:20   build a pc because no Mac we are [TS]

01:40:22   discussing know Mac you can buy as is [TS]

01:40:24   vital for which is entirely true because [TS]

01:40:26   the max technically capable of doing [TS]

01:40:27   your experience with the current be our [TS]

01:40:28   products to the the pioneers of the VR [TS]

01:40:31   industry [TS]

01:40:32   re there you know you need a game [TS]

01:40:34   console or you need a pc and no matter [TS]

01:40:36   what makes you have [TS]

01:40:37   forget it and so he was considered [TS]

01:40:39   cables concerned that Apple's missing [TS]

01:40:41   out on this that they are watching this [TS]

01:40:43   one go by and again we've talked many [TS]

01:40:45   times about the supposed rumored to be [TS]

01:40:46   our things that Apple surely toying with [TS]

01:40:48   internally but as far as I'm aware [TS]

01:40:50   there's no there's no credible rumors [TS]

01:40:53   about Apple feeling any products in that [TS]

01:40:55   area [TS]

01:40:56   I i think they should be experimented [TS]

01:40:58   with it and same thing with wearables I [TS]

01:41:00   think they should be experimenting but [TS]

01:41:01   everything having to do with wearables [TS]

01:41:03   not just watches and some people [TS]

01:41:05   something back without recently was like [TS]

01:41:07   you guys say that Apple spread too thin [TS]

01:41:10   but on the other hand you're always [TS]

01:41:11   saying Apple has to be checking out [TS]

01:41:12   everything there's a difference between [TS]

01:41:14   fielding a product of platform or [TS]

01:41:18   investigating like apples job is to try [TS]

01:41:21   everything to see what you know not in [TS]

01:41:23   the market but like tried out internally [TS]

01:41:25   make sure someone is working on VR make [TS]

01:41:26   sure someone's working on this that [TS]

01:41:28   maybe not cards right but everything is [TS]

01:41:30   close to their industry be don't let it [TS]

01:41:32   catch you by surprise and then figure [TS]

01:41:34   out of all those things is it someplace [TS]

01:41:36   where we can sell a good product you [TS]

01:41:38   know can we can we [TS]

01:41:40   you know make a significant contribution [TS]

01:41:41   to this market how big is the potential [TS]

01:41:43   market that's what they should be doing [TS]

01:41:44   internally you can't do is actually say [TS]

01:41:47   we need to be in every single market [TS]

01:41:49   like Microsoft in the nineties we need [TS]

01:41:50   to make if there's a technological thing [TS]

01:41:52   that can run software we need to make [TS]

01:41:54   one of them and we need to sell it as a [TS]

01:41:55   product we need to support it forever [TS]

01:41:57   because then you just end up with too [TS]

01:41:57   much crap so it's being spread too thin [TS]

01:42:00   as when you do more than you can do [TS]

01:42:02   externally and then doing due diligence [TS]

01:42:05   internally is saying we need to be [TS]

01:42:08   looking at everything we need to not be [TS]

01:42:09   caught by surprise we need to it's very [TS]

01:42:11   least be making an internal [TS]

01:42:13   determination of it's not time for us to [TS]

01:42:15   enter that market will continue looking [TS]

01:42:16   at so much cheaper to just continue to [TS]

01:42:19   investigate internally it gets really [TS]

01:42:20   expensive once you say you know we're [TS]

01:42:22   gonna make a product that's one of the [TS]

01:42:23   rumors about the car by the way is [TS]

01:42:24   someone inside decided we can we can [TS]

01:42:27   innovate in the car space whether it's [TS]

01:42:28   with electric cars self-driving cars or [TS]

01:42:30   whatever whatever they're gonna do right [TS]

01:42:31   and the room I heard was that Apple had [TS]

01:42:35   essentially said they're willing to [TS]

01:42:37   spend a billion dollars on development [TS]

01:42:39   of a car and then walk away from the [TS]

01:42:41   entire project doesn't like it's working [TS]

01:42:42   out so that's like that [TS]

01:42:44   now again it's just a rumor who knows [TS]

01:42:45   but that's the mindset you have to go in [TS]

01:42:47   with because how do you know whether you [TS]

01:42:49   can do something good in the car space [TS]

01:42:51   you can think about it all you want but [TS]

01:42:53   at a certain point someone has said all [TS]

01:42:54   right I think we can do something let's [TS]

01:42:56   give it a try and if you have budgets [TS]

01:42:58   the size of Apple you could say all [TS]

01:42:59   right we'll put a billion dollars into [TS]

01:43:00   this and then we'll revisit mostly once [TS]

01:43:02   we spend a billion dollars [TS]

01:43:03   what do we think guys is this ready and [TS]

01:43:05   gals to a lifetime of sexist language [TS]

01:43:09   cemented my freakin break anyway what do [TS]

01:43:12   we think of this is this going to be a [TS]

01:43:14   product worthy of Apple should be [TS]

01:43:15   release it and that's where Martin comes [TS]

01:43:17   and yells at you and says you know what [TS]

01:43:18   maybe the watch wasn't a product worthy [TS]

01:43:20   of Apple quite yet we think we're both [TS]

01:43:22   are great but when it's time to give the [TS]

01:43:24   go/no-go maybe let it bake a little [TS]

01:43:25   longer anyway [TS]

01:43:26   or maybe it was the wrong approach yeah [TS]

01:43:29   that the rumored attitude with the car [TS]

01:43:31   and i think is the right attitude is get [TS]

01:43:33   while the getting's good you've got a [TS]

01:43:34   lot of money you can invest a lot just [TS]

01:43:37   because you put a billion dollars into [TS]

01:43:39   it doesn't mean you actually have to [TS]

01:43:40   ship a car you can put a billion dollars [TS]

01:43:42   in and say we thought we could do [TS]

01:43:43   something really interesting here it [TS]

01:43:45   turns out we can't [TS]

01:43:46   lesson learned move on that's doing your [TS]

01:43:49   due diligence if they're doing that VR [TS]

01:43:50   we've been looking to be off for two [TS]

01:43:52   decades we have people doing AR and VR [TS]

01:43:53   internally we've been investigating for [TS]

01:43:55   as long as be investigating anything any [TS]

01:43:57   of the technologies that we actually [TS]

01:43:58   released like touch screens and voice [TS]

01:44:00   recognition and all these things we've [TS]

01:44:01   been doing the last forever and ever and [TS]

01:44:03   Apple when it's time to come out with a [TS]

01:44:05   product we feel like we can make [TS]

01:44:07   contribution we will until then we won't [TS]

01:44:09   so that's why we always just assume here [TS]

01:44:10   on the outside of course i was looking [TS]

01:44:12   to be are and sometimes in our darker [TS]

01:44:14   moments to think right right Apple [TS]

01:44:16   you're at least experimenting with [TS]

01:44:17   internal doesn't mean you need to feel [TS]

01:44:18   the product that doesn't mean you must [TS]

01:44:19   compete with the oculus rift today like [TS]

01:44:20   there's so many questions about VR still [TS]

01:44:23   you know we still don't know what's [TS]

01:44:25   going to happen there but we just hope [TS]

01:44:26   that Apple as the richest technology [TS]

01:44:29   company in the world at the very least [TS]

01:44:30   is investigating all these avenues for [TS]

01:44:32   wearable same thing it you can wear a [TS]

01:44:34   lot of Technology things on your body [TS]

01:44:36   and a lot of people where things in [TS]

01:44:38   their body everyday and apple could sell [TS]

01:44:40   them something that makes their lives [TS]

01:44:41   better [TS]

01:44:42   that would be perfect thanks lat 43 [TS]

01:44:45   sponsors this week [TS]

01:44:47   mat.com freshbooks and betterment and we [TS]

01:44:50   will see you next week [TS]

01:44:53   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:44:57   mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

01:45:01   it was accidental Jonathan [TS]

01:45:05   any research Marco in kc wouldn't let [TS]

01:45:08   you know [TS]

01:45:09   because it was accidentally was [TS]

01:45:12   accidental and you can find the show [TS]

01:45:16   know today p dot and if twitter follow [TS]

01:45:24   them [TS]

01:45:25   yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:45:31   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment our AC at [TS]

01:45:39   Syracuse [TS]

01:45:47   check [TS]

01:45:52   we talked about that uh that max thing [TS]

01:45:59   oh oh yeah I didn't get a chance to reel [TS]

01:46:01   under all these what's jon's mom who's [TS]

01:46:03   Californian what the hell is that it's [TS]

01:46:05   been our show notes for like three years [TS]

01:46:06   to bike [TS]

01:46:07   yeah but just everything I can talk [TS]

01:46:09   about it sometime but not today not [TS]

01:46:11   today i'm not prepared for it not ready [TS]

01:46:14   the whole all you know what the whole [TS]

01:46:16   purpose of this show you don't mean it's [TS]

01:46:18   not like I need to I just need to know [TS]

01:46:20   that's the thing we're going to talk [TS]

01:46:21   about tonight now that the max thing is [TS]

01:46:23   good idea because i forgot that was [TS]

01:46:25   there and I did look at that page [TS]

01:46:26   yes I didn't get a guy didn't get a good [TS]

01:46:28   look at it I looked at the picture so i [TS]

01:46:29   really liked him [TS]

01:46:30   that's mean that's a lot of it so yes [TS]

01:46:33   sir there's a blog post by Andrew [TS]

01:46:35   ambrosino on medium called Mac awesome [TS]

01:46:40   at any cos that you know the lowercase [TS]

01:46:42   Mac way that we think they're going to [TS]

01:46:43   rename it colon it's time to take the [TS]

01:46:45   next step and he basically outlines a [TS]

01:46:49   number of like substantial changes that [TS]

01:46:53   that he he thinks should be done or he [TS]

01:46:56   proposes might might be good to mac OS [TS]

01:46:59   in things like design and interface [TS]

01:47:02   changes and really kind of making it he [TS]

01:47:05   was he was originally responding a [TS]

01:47:07   little bit too steep transmits claim [TS]

01:47:10   back in his day bc wish list post few [TS]

01:47:13   months or a couple months back or a [TS]

01:47:15   couple weeks back that he was saying [TS]

01:47:16   secret and Smith said that he really [TS]

01:47:18   believes that OS 10 is a dead platform [TS]

01:47:20   and kind of elaborate on that [TS]

01:47:22   so this so Andrew here basically kind of [TS]

01:47:27   took that further like well you know [TS]

01:47:28   what does os10 need to kind of take the [TS]

01:47:31   next level 22 to remain relevant to go [TS]

01:47:34   the next step and there's a number eat [TS]

01:47:36   it if I could summarize it he basically [TS]

01:47:39   makes the interface look a lot more like [TS]

01:47:42   iOS apps that are kind of being windowed [TS]

01:47:45   in regular in like a regular os10 [TS]

01:47:46   environment so it basically it's it's a [TS]

01:47:49   it's a significant design refresh around [TS]

01:47:53   a more iose style for lots of apps in [TS]

01:47:56   the system rather than what we have now [TS]

01:47:59   is kind of like you know mostly apt-get [TS]

01:48:01   styles and then some apps like photos or [TS]

01:48:03   more iose [TS]

01:48:04   on any proposed if you have things like [TS]

01:48:06   any file system thing and a few other [TS]

01:48:08   things so I don't know what you guys [TS]

01:48:10   think of it I think it's really [TS]

01:48:11   interesting [TS]

01:48:12   it does not look as much like iOS as you [TS]

01:48:14   think it does and i also think it [TS]

01:48:16   doesn't take much to get a designer's [TS]

01:48:18   juices flowing [TS]

01:48:19   I think all you need to throw them is [TS]

01:48:21   the again mostly agreed upon by the [TS]

01:48:24   people out in the outside world [TS]

01:48:26   renaming of the operating system to [TS]

01:48:28   match iOS and TV us and watch us to have [TS]

01:48:30   a lowercase M my question we've been [TS]

01:48:31   talking about for months and months i [TS]

01:48:33   think that's basically all you need you [TS]

01:48:35   can just put that little grain of sand [TS]

01:48:37   in the mind of designer and they [TS]

01:48:39   immediately want to design screenshots [TS]

01:48:41   of what this always look at starting [TS]

01:48:42   like this one does but the with the [TS]

01:48:44   about screen because it if you don't [TS]

01:48:46   think that changing the capitalization [TS]

01:48:48   and naming of an operating system can [TS]

01:48:50   lead to a visual design you don't have [TS]

01:48:52   much of a designer in you because it [TS]

01:48:54   doesn't take much to get that ball [TS]

01:48:55   rolling and I like these screenshots but [TS]

01:48:57   they remind me a lot of what i see [TS]

01:48:59   whenever there is a new mac operating [TS]

01:49:02   system coming designers want to say this [TS]

01:49:03   though I would make it look and i have [TS]

01:49:06   to say that most of them I feel like are [TS]

01:49:09   doing a surface treatment they are [TS]

01:49:11   reskinning without rethinking any of the [TS]

01:49:15   paradigms because they have a dock on [TS]

01:49:17   the bottom menu bar on the top they have [TS]

01:49:19   windows with Windows widgets and [TS]

01:49:21   toolbars and search fields and sidebars [TS]

01:49:23   and and master detail views and you know [TS]

01:49:26   table views and scrolling list of [TS]

01:49:28   thumbnails and it's like that's not [TS]

01:49:30   rethinking anything that's exactly what [TS]

01:49:31   the mac operating system is now and what [TS]

01:49:33   has been for years and years and just [TS]

01:49:35   because on your video player you put a [TS]

01:49:37   big circle kinda like there is on the [TS]

01:49:38   iphone camera does not to change the [TS]

01:49:41   interface of dealing with video on the [TS]

01:49:44   mac at all like a real paradigm shift [TS]

01:49:46   would be away from some aspect that has [TS]

01:49:49   defined the the Macan that the basic [TS]

01:49:51   desktop the operating system or that's [TS]

01:49:53   you know in the modern era the doc but [TS]

01:49:55   really just movable resizable windows [TS]

01:49:57   with widgets and toolbars and menu bar [TS]

01:49:59   on the top of the screen like when you [TS]

01:50:00   come down to it I'm not saying that [TS]

01:50:02   needs to change but anybody was like [TS]

01:50:04   this needs to be we need to have a [TS]

01:50:06   rethink of the mac because it is [TS]

01:50:08   stagnating and then they show every skin [TS]

01:50:10   type of thing that's there seems to be a [TS]

01:50:13   disagreement between with between the [TS]

01:50:16   spirit of the tech [TS]

01:50:17   stand the actuality of the images even [TS]

01:50:19   though I'm sure these images are [TS]

01:50:20   exciting to the person who drew them and [TS]

01:50:21   they do look kind of cool even if they [TS]

01:50:22   do look a little bit like the current uh [TS]

01:50:25   look and feel the system maybe just rest [TS]

01:50:27   up a little bit yeah if you're if you're [TS]

01:50:31   pitches in the text that needs a radical [TS]

01:50:33   rethink then the screenshot should be a [TS]

01:50:36   radical rethink and I don't think these [TS]

01:50:37   are on the other hand if your pitch is [TS]

01:50:39   you know when we talk about the best [TS]

01:50:41   shows that the max should be i take [TS]

01:50:45   advantage of its maturity and just [TS]

01:50:46   decrease the number of bugs and [TS]

01:50:48   increased performance and stability over [TS]

01:50:50   and over again until it is just like [TS]

01:50:51   rock solid super responsive like a game [TS]

01:50:55   console in the olden days when there was [TS]

01:50:57   no such thing as framerate drops and [TS]

01:50:58   just everything happens because the [TS]

01:50:59   screen can handle it sprites on the [TS]

01:51:01   screen at the time and they're always [TS]

01:51:03   perfect and there's never any dropping [TS]

01:51:05   frame rate and everything is perfectly [TS]

01:51:06   responsive and stable thing never [TS]

01:51:08   crashes because you can't do software [TS]

01:51:09   updates on a cartridge and nothing's [TS]

01:51:10   ever going to change anyway I am NOT [TS]

01:51:14   that has to be a nostalgic type of thing [TS]

01:51:15   but like that is that is another route [TS]

01:51:18   you can go with the mac not gonna [TS]

01:51:19   radically rethink it make it the best [TS]

01:51:20   version of the current mac operating [TS]

01:51:22   system that could possibly be as in the [TS]

01:51:24   same paradigm resizable windows [TS]

01:51:26   scrollbars window widgets menu bars that [TS]

01:51:29   is a powerful paradigm that its last us [TS]

01:51:31   a long time you can do amazing things [TS]

01:51:32   with it and there's nothing really [TS]

01:51:33   particularly broken about it for the [TS]

01:51:36   current customers of the mac plenty [TS]

01:51:37   things broken out for the mass market [TS]

01:51:39   would much rather use their smartphones [TS]

01:51:40   not again setting that aside for now you [TS]

01:51:42   can take the mac on face value for what [TS]

01:51:44   it is [TS]

01:51:45   who wouldn't love a mac that reacted to [TS]

01:51:47   your input faster that did everything [TS]

01:51:49   faster that never crashed never stalled [TS]

01:51:52   never did anything weird [TS]

01:51:54   can you do that it's easier to do that [TS]

01:51:57   if you say that's all we're going to do [TS]

01:51:58   with this thing we're not going to try [TS]

01:52:01   to come up with big important features [TS]

01:52:02   every single time we're going to say if [TS]

01:52:04   there's a big important feature crying [TS]

01:52:05   out to be appointed by all means [TS]

01:52:06   wouldn't like it but if there's not we [TS]

01:52:08   will not feel ashamed to spend an entire [TS]

01:52:09   year just polishing the hell out of the [TS]

01:52:12   mac operating system i know i would love [TS]

01:52:14   that and I know a lot of the existing [TS]

01:52:16   customers would love that and maybe you [TS]

01:52:18   could say that defines a dead platform [TS]

01:52:19   because stability equals death but that [TS]

01:52:22   is one possible route to go to make the [TS]

01:52:24   people who use the mac now [TS]

01:52:25   but even more and I think to extend its [TS]

01:52:28   life because in order for the mac to [TS]

01:52:30   continue to be viable it has to continue [TS]

01:52:32   to offer things better than iOS and I [TS]

01:52:34   was getting better all the time and if [TS]

01:52:37   the mac operating system is not also [TS]

01:52:39   getting better [TS]

01:52:40   eventually those lines on the graph [TS]

01:52:41   across and there's no more points for [TS]

01:52:43   having the mac yeah i mean i-i think it [TS]

01:52:45   really comes down to like you know is is [TS]

01:52:48   the mac being treated you know harvest [TS]

01:52:51   platform why software-wise it being [TS]

01:52:53   treated like the macbook air which is [TS]

01:52:56   kind of like you just can't we're going [TS]

01:52:57   to keep selling it for a while until it [TS]

01:52:59   becomes irrelevant or dies then we're [TS]

01:53:00   going to kind of stop or is it an active [TS]

01:53:04   platform that Apple wants to keep going [TS]

01:53:05   indefinitely and I think it's the latter [TS]

01:53:07   and I think we've you know we've heard [TS]

01:53:09   comments that effect from craig [TS]

01:53:11   federighi and I think maybe even from [TS]

01:53:13   phil schiller and so either way I'd it [TS]

01:53:16   does seem like that is the idea that the [TS]

01:53:19   mac is not dead it's not just in [TS]

01:53:21   maintenance mode until it gets subsumed [TS]

01:53:23   by iOS it does seem like they want to to [TS]

01:53:27   keep moving it forward it really just [TS]

01:53:29   needs know maybe the resources to do [TS]

01:53:31   that and maybe they're doing that [TS]

01:53:33   already i don't know but I if they're [TS]

01:53:36   going to keep it going as a platform i [TS]

01:53:40   think i got to make a John argument here [TS]

01:53:42   but like they have to eventually make [TS]

01:53:45   like massive jumps in certain areas like [TS]

01:53:47   eventually like whatever we know as os10 [TS]

01:53:49   there's gonna be like you know max 11 or [TS]

01:53:52   whatever whatever the movie called like [TS]

01:53:54   eventually there was going to be like [TS]

01:53:56   the next big jump forward on this [TS]

01:53:58   platform at least there needs to be it's [TS]

01:54:00   going to remain relevant and and I it [TS]

01:54:03   doesn't it's hard to tell whether it's [TS]

01:54:04   getting the resources the attention it [TS]

01:54:06   needs internally to be on track for that [TS]

01:54:08   or whether they're mostly focused on iOS [TS]

01:54:10   right now but i don't know maybe the [TS]

01:54:13   naming like is a their way of doing this [TS]

01:54:15   I wonder if they're going to reset the [TS]

01:54:16   version numbers they start from one [TS]

01:54:18   point out this is macross one point now [TS]

01:54:20   instead and under the covers of course [TS]

01:54:22   they would still be like you know 10 12 [TS]

01:54:24   whatever just for software backward [TS]

01:54:26   about some kind of like how Windows has [TS]

01:54:28   the crazy version number that he got [TS]

01:54:30   scared off because they continue where [TS]

01:54:31   they do the NT version numbers i think a [TS]

01:54:33   few thousand yeah anyway i can imagine [TS]

01:54:36   that they're doing something like that [TS]

01:54:38   that's not the big reset we're talking [TS]

01:54:39   about this was the other direction was [TS]

01:54:41   like alright then radically rethink it [TS]

01:54:42   radically rethink my governing system do [TS]

01:54:44   do another mac western-style transition [TS]

01:54:46   that can be dangerous too because you [TS]

01:54:49   could just be annoying the remaining [TS]

01:54:51   customers you have to say forget this [TS]

01:54:53   and I'm going to go through a big change [TS]

01:54:54   and just gonna learn how to use an iPad [TS]

01:54:56   pro I don't know but at the very least [TS]

01:54:59   renaming and reskinning can actually go [TS]

01:55:01   a long way towards getting people [TS]

01:55:03   excited about a platform again even if [TS]

01:55:05   it's all service details if you also do [TS]

01:55:08   some other things right that like that's [TS]

01:55:09   another free again me like do you want [TS]

01:55:11   to do a a make things faster and fix [TS]

01:55:14   bugs release but make people think it's [TS]

01:55:15   a feature release just change how [TS]

01:55:16   everything looks maybe like well this [TS]

01:55:18   new microorganism it's crazy when all [TS]

01:55:19   they did was all they did was change [TS]

01:55:21   graphics and then they spent the whole [TS]

01:55:22   rest of the time fixing bugs increasing [TS]

01:55:23   performance and as someone who write [TS]

01:55:25   software and someone who likes software [TS]

01:55:27   updates i'm obviously more excited than [TS]

01:55:30   normal people are about this i love when [TS]

01:55:32   a new version of a software product that [TS]

01:55:34   I use comes out that they tell me [TS]

01:55:36   something in it is faster i love that [TS]

01:55:38   I've because you know as a programmer i [TS]

01:55:39   love doing that i love you know deleting [TS]

01:55:42   code that no longer has executed on [TS]

01:55:43   every you know frame of animation or in [TS]

01:55:45   every time this thing happens like I [TS]

01:55:48   love better algorithms that scale better [TS]

01:55:50   with large amounts of content handles [TS]

01:55:52   huge numbers of photos better like you [TS]

01:55:55   know even something as simple as better [TS]

01:55:56   responsiveness during scrolling or like [TS]

01:55:58   you know [TS]

01:56:00   loading things are like performance i [TS]

01:56:02   love things