The Accidental Tech Podcast

165: Time Was…


00:00:00   we should briefly discuss that it is [TS]

00:00:04   earlier in the week we have some [TS]

00:00:07   interesting travel arrangements between [TS]

00:00:08   the three of us coming up in the next [TS]

00:00:09   couple of weeks and so we're trying to [TS]

00:00:11   get ahead of everything [TS]

00:00:12   additionally we should note that jon is [TS]

00:00:14   coming to us on assignment from an [TS]

00:00:17   undisclosed location [TS]

00:00:18   so if he sounds a little bit peculiar if [TS]

00:00:20   you hear slightly more background noise [TS]

00:00:22   unusual that's not his fault that's what [TS]

00:00:24   being on assignment is all about so [TS]

00:00:26   please bear with us [TS]

00:00:28   not much of an assignment my internet [TS]

00:00:29   went out of my house so i had to find [TS]

00:00:31   make other arrangements better that's [TS]

00:00:33   not my files box from i don't know how [TS]

00:00:36   many years ago 10 years ago 12 it's [TS]

00:00:39   really really old and I think it's [TS]

00:00:40   finally given up the ghost witches a [TS]

00:00:42   shame and of course it does it now at [TS]

00:00:45   the most inconvenient time we have to [TS]

00:00:47   podcast during this week and I'm about [TS]

00:00:49   to leave somewhere to complications so [TS]

00:00:51   what can you do [TS]

00:00:52   well you know things happen but we [TS]

00:00:55   appreciate you not only be going on [TS]

00:00:57   assignment like that but also admitting [TS]

00:00:59   to the fact that on assignment just [TS]

00:01:00   means you have internet problems i was [TS]

00:01:02   trying to build you up and make it [TS]

00:01:03   sounds super exciting and then you had [TS]

00:01:04   to go and ruin it [TS]

00:01:05   yeah i've also got my my little cup of [TS]

00:01:07   water on the same level as my macbook [TS]

00:01:10   air [TS]

00:01:10   I'm totally a channeling you you know I [TS]

00:01:13   hear that's a bad idea [TS]

00:01:14   I hear that's very dangerous again [TS]

00:01:17   limited options in my undisclosed well [TS]

00:01:21   Godspeed my god will be so funny if you [TS]

00:01:23   spilled it i really don't want you to [TS]

00:01:25   but I neither do i but but that would be [TS]

00:01:27   going I'm going to be pretty careful as [TS]

00:01:29   you can imagine my goodness alright so [TS]

00:01:33   we should start with some follow-up the [TS]

00:01:35   Internet has written to tell us about [TS]

00:01:37   the tesla model name a team now I didn't [TS]

00:01:41   really I knew this and I think you guys [TS]

00:01:42   did too but none of us our lease I [TS]

00:01:45   didn't really want to bring it up [TS]

00:01:46   because I didn't think it was relevant [TS]

00:01:46   and nobody was a hundred percent sure at [TS]

00:01:49   the time that we recorded whether this [TS]

00:01:51   was a clever like backronym or if this [TS]

00:01:54   is a good theory or what but the [TS]

00:01:57   Internet has written to tell us that the [TS]

00:01:58   intention for the tesla model names [TS]

00:02:01   which are sx3 and why the original [TS]

00:02:04   intention was for them to BS xe8 and y [TS]

00:02:08   which you jumble that around a little [TS]

00:02:10   bit that become [TS]

00:02:11   s.e.x y which is then the word sexy and [TS]

00:02:15   haha look at how clever Elon Musk is so [TS]

00:02:18   this is our just our way of [TS]

00:02:19   acknowledging that yes we are aware of [TS]

00:02:21   this and in fact we were aware of this [TS]

00:02:22   we just didn't really want to bring it [TS]

00:02:24   up and now we have been compelled to [TS]

00:02:25   bring it up it's actually not quite true [TS]

00:02:27   that one of us did bring it up and i [TS]

00:02:29   actually ended it out i thought it [TS]

00:02:32   sounded so juvenile and implausible I'm [TS]

00:02:34   like that's probably not true it i don't [TS]

00:02:37   want to have that in the show so i just [TS]

00:02:38   edited out it's so you actually did [TS]

00:02:41   cover it [TS]

00:02:41   you got to read more articles about it [TS]

00:02:43   on mosque maybe i don't i think a better [TS]

00:02:45   off not reading your articles already [TS]

00:02:47   asked [TS]

00:02:48   yeah I didn't go back and look at the [TS]

00:02:49   master plan thing but I'd that during [TS]

00:02:51   the presentation for the model 3 said [TS]

00:02:53   the master plan was three cars so at [TS]

00:02:55   best best case the original plan could [TS]

00:02:57   have been for ssex you know what the [TS]

00:02:59   four models now and the whole thing with [TS]

00:03:02   the why and what I don't know [TS]

00:03:03   anyway it sounds silly it is silly and [TS]

00:03:05   it doesn't work because it's called the [TS]

00:03:07   three and there's no why [TS]

00:03:08   and the ex came before the three it's [TS]

00:03:10   just a mess yeah but everyone thought [TS]

00:03:12   that we were not aware of this because [TS]

00:03:15   whether or not we brought it up on the [TS]

00:03:16   original version of the show wasn't on [TS]

00:03:18   the release version of marketers said [TS]

00:03:19   but we are aware I whatever i don't [TS]

00:03:22   think this is amusing as everyone else [TS]

00:03:23   does like I don't what did whatever it [TS]

00:03:26   doesn't really matter to me but since we [TS]

00:03:29   brought up the tehsil any other thoughts [TS]

00:03:30   on the test left for Marco same old [TS]

00:03:32   stuff still love it still love it still [TS]

00:03:34   awesome i really am just enjoying it a [TS]

00:03:37   ton [TS]

00:03:37   the thought of going back to a gas car [TS]

00:03:39   now or as underscore David Smith calls [TS]

00:03:41   and exploding dinosaur car I it just [TS]

00:03:45   seems like the past it seems like a step [TS]

00:03:47   back to think about it and there's no [TS]

00:03:49   gas car on the market that I'm [TS]

00:03:51   interested in [TS]

00:03:52   and by the way sorry underscore but i'm [TS]

00:03:53   not going to give you credit for the [TS]

00:03:54   exploding dinosaurs thing he claimed in [TS]

00:03:56   select the other day that he had coined [TS]

00:03:58   that term and i'm going to say no on [TS]

00:03:59   that one [TS]

00:04:00   have you found prior art I don't know [TS]

00:04:02   when he claims to have coined it but [TS]

00:04:04   I've heard for a long long time Google [TS]

00:04:07   searches for to go back pretty far he [TS]

00:04:09   could have coined it when he was 15 I [TS]

00:04:11   don't know but it's yeah that's pretty [TS]

00:04:14   old [TS]

00:04:14   I'm gonna do I hadn't heard that exact [TS]

00:04:16   combination of her Dino juice in [TS]

00:04:18   reference to regular traditional motor [TS]

00:04:21   oil instead of synthetic [TS]

00:04:22   but I had not heard this particular [TS]

00:04:24   combination that being said we will put [TS]

00:04:26   this link in the show notes this is [TS]

00:04:27   underscored David Smith's innards review [TS]

00:04:30   of the Tesla Model ass and it was really [TS]

00:04:33   great i really really enjoyed it and it [TS]

00:04:35   is exactly what it says on the tenets [TS]

00:04:37   his review from the Nerds perspective [TS]

00:04:38   tomorrow if you've been in the 3 GT [TS]

00:04:41   since you've owned the Tesla only to [TS]

00:04:45   move it in and out of the garage when [TS]

00:04:46   doing some driver arrangement and it's [TS]

00:04:48   only very briefly but that's fine it's [TS]

00:04:51   still a great car for what it is but it [TS]

00:04:54   like this is again this is why Tesla is [TS]

00:04:56   is so interesting because I really want [TS]

00:04:58   you drive an all-electric car it really [TS]

00:05:01   does make all other gas cars feel like [TS]

00:05:04   obsolete things in the past i just it [TS]

00:05:07   it's hard to describe it just it's just [TS]

00:05:09   a feeling that you get and it's the [TS]

00:05:12   average great i did I I do have a little [TS]

00:05:15   bit more experienced now with autopilot [TS]

00:05:16   with the automatic steering I did a [TS]

00:05:20   couple of highway driving the day and [TS]

00:05:21   and so I'd I used it for a lot of them I [TS]

00:05:25   I agree mostly with what underscore says [TS]

00:05:27   about it which is that it really is more [TS]

00:05:29   like an advanced cruise control [TS]

00:05:32   it's not the kind of thing where you [TS]

00:05:35   want to stop paying attention or even [TS]

00:05:37   can safely stop paying attention and I [TS]

00:05:40   would barely call itself driving because [TS]

00:05:42   basic things will throw it off like if [TS]

00:05:45   you're driving on the highway lane and [TS]

00:05:47   the land the lane you're in splits and [TS]

00:05:50   part of it was like the continue on this [TS]

00:05:52   road fork and the other part of it is [TS]

00:05:54   like the get ready to exit off somewhere [TS]

00:05:56   else or the highway spoken to whether it [TS]

00:05:59   chooses to follow the right side of the [TS]

00:06:01   split it if you're like if he should be [TS]

00:06:03   staying left is kind of inconsistent and [TS]

00:06:06   vague it and there were a couple of [TS]

00:06:08   times where it was steering me I thought [TS]

00:06:11   a little too close to like walls on the [TS]

00:06:13   side that barriers in the side and [TS]

00:06:14   everything so I got a little freaked out [TS]

00:06:16   a couple times so basically I wouldn't [TS]

00:06:18   necessarily say that this is like [TS]

00:06:20   massively useful you can't stop paying [TS]

00:06:24   attention you can even take your hands [TS]

00:06:26   off the wheel [TS]

00:06:27   you're basically left it loosely holding [TS]

00:06:29   the steering wheel because it turns for [TS]

00:06:31   you you know like buy it by the car so [TS]

00:06:34   you're basically left [TS]

00:06:36   loosely gripping the steering wheel [TS]

00:06:37   still holding your hands up at least one [TS]

00:06:39   hand and so it's kinda like what's [TS]

00:06:41   really the benefit of it if you have to [TS]

00:06:44   if you have to do all that so I don't [TS]

00:06:47   know I'm a little torn on the value of [TS]

00:06:50   autopilot and I i couldn't i can now see [TS]

00:06:54   firsthand just how incredibly [TS]

00:06:56   complicated the idea of self-driving [TS]

00:06:58   cars really is in practice if this is [TS]

00:07:01   like that the current generation of what [TS]

00:07:04   regular consumers can get today we still [TS]

00:07:07   have a lot of work to do and and you [TS]

00:07:09   know it is very impressive compared to [TS]

00:07:10   nothing but is really still it is very [TS]

00:07:14   early days and i would not expect fully [TS]

00:07:17   autonomous self driving cars in the next [TS]

00:07:20   few years I i think where I think we're [TS]

00:07:21   further away on that then a lot of [TS]

00:07:23   people might think just because driving [TS]

00:07:25   is so complicated and it these are such [TS]

00:07:27   hard AI problems and such hard technical [TS]

00:07:29   problems to solve that and then after [TS]

00:07:32   that we'll be such a hard human problem [TS]

00:07:33   to solve that I think we're still a [TS]

00:07:35   while off on that but I do think we're [TS]

00:07:37   heading that direction they just a [TS]

00:07:38   question of like you know how quickly [TS]

00:07:40   and maybe not so quickly [TS]

00:07:43   actually i want to i agree with Margo [TS]

00:07:45   and I want to talk a little bit about [TS]

00:07:47   self-driving cars actually put that in [TS]

00:07:48   the topic list is something I want to [TS]

00:07:49   talk about for a while because of all [TS]

00:07:51   the press with the Tesla stuff but i [TS]

00:07:52   just want to chime in briefly and say [TS]

00:07:54   that i found a reference to explain [TS]

00:07:56   dinosaurs from 10 years ago more than 10 [TS]

00:07:58   years ago so we're against underscore i [TS]

00:08:01   just found a forum post quoting [TS]

00:08:02   something is a December 27 2005 someone [TS]

00:08:05   saying just remember that your car is [TS]

00:08:07   propelled by exploiting dinosaurs [TS]

00:08:08   anyway it's a really old saying again [TS]

00:08:11   underscores alive in 2005 we did he [TS]

00:08:13   never claimed when he pointed but i'm [TS]

00:08:15   going to say no anyway I'm gonna say yes [TS]

00:08:16   I think he's in his thirties like us so [TS]

00:08:18   you know pretty sure would like to hide [TS]

00:08:20   I you gotta keep going backwards and [TS]

00:08:22   Google keep finding it anyway 2005 is [TS]

00:08:24   the earliest i found an end two seconds [TS]

00:08:26   with the clear down here so with the [TS]

00:08:28   self-driving car things you hear about [TS]

00:08:30   it because the test autopilot you hear [TS]

00:08:32   about it because all the other car [TS]

00:08:33   makers that are showing their [TS]

00:08:34   self-driving cars just today I saw a [TS]

00:08:36   news story about the agency is about the [TS]

00:08:38   convoy of self driving trucks that went [TS]

00:08:40   across Europe [TS]

00:08:42   no I saw the headline but I didn't see [TS]

00:08:43   anything else had like a human-powered [TS]

00:08:45   one in the front and then like two or [TS]

00:08:46   three days like big you know semi-trucks [TS]

00:08:48   two or three behind [TS]

00:08:49   following along looks terrifying i think [TS]

00:08:54   the press and the public has and even [TS]

00:08:57   car magazines have really jumped the gun [TS]

00:08:59   on this one because it's clear we have a [TS]

00:09:02   nice progression from cruise control to [TS]

00:09:04   radar cruise control two things that [TS]

00:09:06   will try to steer for you and so on and [TS]

00:09:07   so forth but to make that final leap to [TS]

00:09:11   actual self-driving cars with you know [TS]

00:09:12   with all the sci-fi pictures when you [TS]

00:09:14   see someone like reading a magazine all [TS]

00:09:15   there in the car i think we are a ways [TS]

00:09:19   away from that and especially since the [TS]

00:09:23   most successful version of this the idea [TS]

00:09:26   which i think is the google self-driving [TS]

00:09:27   cars that tool around their campus and [TS]

00:09:29   have been driving you know if the [TS]

00:09:30   hundreds of thousands of miles like [TS]

00:09:31   that's that's the one that the press [TS]

00:09:32   stories loved the site like however many [TS]

00:09:35   thousands upon thousands of miles Google [TS]

00:09:37   self-driving cars have driven just you [TS]

00:09:39   know I never had like you know one [TS]

00:09:41   accident or something that was a human's [TS]

00:09:42   fault or whatever like that the amazing [TS]

00:09:44   driving record in the amazing technology [TS]

00:09:46   like wow well if that's happening in the [TS]

00:09:48   magical Silicon Valley surely it will [TS]

00:09:50   only be a couple of years before I'm [TS]

00:09:52   able to go to work in a self-driving car [TS]

00:09:54   and it just comes down to the you know [TS]

00:09:58   the difference between like the [TS]

00:10:00   conditions and the way the the thing [TS]

00:10:02   about so the Google self-driving cars [TS]

00:10:03   they mapped out every inch of this [TS]

00:10:04   friggin roads and the cars no not just [TS]

00:10:08   which you know where the roads are like [TS]

00:10:10   a GPS style map but i think they have [TS]

00:10:11   like 3d terrain maps of every inch of [TS]

00:10:13   the roads may have you know a lack of [TS]

00:10:15   weather and they have lines painted on [TS]

00:10:17   the road and I have other things that [TS]

00:10:19   you know it'sit's california for crying [TS]

00:10:21   out the cars on vacation [TS]

00:10:23   yeah people don't live in those [TS]

00:10:25   environments and google has not map 3d [TS]

00:10:27   laser mapped every inch of pavement [TS]

00:10:29   everywhere and another point of cars [TS]

00:10:30   that can drive it out their markers got [TS]

00:10:32   one now we'll stay in the lane as much [TS]

00:10:34   as you can if you can figure out where [TS]

00:10:36   the lanes are and you know there's not [TS]

00:10:38   snow covering the road and always that [TS]

00:10:39   you know all these other factors but he [TS]

00:10:41   can't read a magazine because it's not [TS]

00:10:44   doesn't hasn't gone that last that the [TS]

00:10:46   last little bit right and last little [TS]

00:10:48   bit of killer you can make increasingly [TS]

00:10:50   sophisticated it's essentially smart [TS]

00:10:53   cruise control but to get over that [TS]

00:10:56   hurdle where you don't have to pay [TS]

00:10:58   attention anymore in the same way you [TS]

00:11:00   don't have to pay attention when you [TS]

00:11:01   take the train [TS]

00:11:02   because you're not driving the train [TS]

00:11:03   right that is going to take a really [TS]

00:11:06   really long time and i'm going to say [TS]

00:11:08   probably not within our lifetimes on [TS]

00:11:11   existing roads [TS]

00:11:13   Wow because every special road sure [TS]

00:11:15   especially mapped roads may be but like [TS]

00:11:18   when I mean existing roads in like a [TS]

00:11:20   road that a human could drive on right [TS]

00:11:21   now that's not specially prepared that [TS]

00:11:24   has been carefully mapped out that [TS]

00:11:25   doesn't have things embedded in the [TS]

00:11:26   pavement like all those things you can [TS]

00:11:27   do like you know it's not saying you [TS]

00:11:29   can't have this man they could they [TS]

00:11:30   could do that to every single Road in [TS]

00:11:32   all of Manhattan and then you just know [TS]

00:11:33   that if you go to Manhattan there's no [TS]

00:11:35   more taxes you just get there you go [TS]

00:11:36   self-driving car because it's a grid and [TS]

00:11:38   I can do whatever they want and they can [TS]

00:11:39   make it work right in limited [TS]

00:11:41   circumstances it can work but in general [TS]

00:11:44   I think it's so far off because it's [TS]

00:11:47   just so much harder problem than winning [TS]

00:11:50   jeopardy or playing go or anything like [TS]

00:11:52   that because the possible inputs are so [TS]

00:11:55   incredibly varied humans have difficulty [TS]

00:11:58   sometimes finding where the whole road [TS]

00:11:59   is and we're pretty good at looking at [TS]

00:12:02   the world and figure out what the hell [TS]

00:12:03   it is we're looking at so i think full [TS]

00:12:06   self-driving cars in the way that people [TS]

00:12:07   imagine it is really really far [TS]

00:12:09   yeah I don't think it's that far off i [TS]

00:12:11   would say most likely within our [TS]

00:12:13   lifetimes but you know I think most [TS]

00:12:16   people are thinking this is going to [TS]

00:12:17   come in like 25 years and I think it's [TS]

00:12:20   probably more like 10 to 20 it's hard [TS]

00:12:22   for me to say more than 20,000 our [TS]

00:12:24   lifetimes like I think we'd be pretty [TS]

00:12:25   darn old because you need you just need [TS]

00:12:28   so much and it's not just the tech like [TS]

00:12:30   even if the tech gets there in 25-30 [TS]

00:12:33   years then you need all the legislation [TS]

00:12:35   and then you need all the other like I [TS]

00:12:37   think it'll be fine that like it will [TS]

00:12:39   have arrived as far as people are [TS]

00:12:40   concerned if it works in limited [TS]

00:12:42   circumstances so if all London a [TS]

00:12:43   self-driving cars would like see you [TS]

00:12:45   didn't successful having cars are going [TS]

00:12:46   to come but they're totally there's like [TS]

00:12:47   sure they're in all of London there in [TS]

00:12:48   Manhattan they're over there in disney [TS]

00:12:50   parks like there were there wherever [TS]

00:12:51   there are there all over Silicon Valley [TS]

00:12:53   but I mean like a car dropping on any [TS]

00:12:56   road the United States and it drives and [TS]

00:12:59   is able to successfully get from point A [TS]

00:13:00   to point B and maybe you don't need to [TS]

00:13:02   get all the way there but i think people [TS]

00:13:04   envision a such a quick ramp from [TS]

00:13:06   controlled circumstances laser map roads [TS]

00:13:09   and then fast forward a couple years and [TS]

00:13:11   any road [TS]

00:13:13   and I just don't see that happening just [TS]

00:13:15   because the like we did you know I I [TS]

00:13:17   don't think we have the we don't have [TS]

00:13:20   the know-how the technology for that yet [TS]

00:13:21   I mean just look at those darker [TS]

00:13:22   challenges where they have those [TS]

00:13:23   vehicles try today they've come so far [TS]

00:13:25   but it's it's kind of like a I wear when [TS]

00:13:28   I was a kid it was like computers can [TS]

00:13:29   answer simple questions now and maybe [TS]

00:13:32   they're about as smart as a cockroach [TS]

00:13:33   and if we extrapolate from current [TS]

00:13:34   trends by the time you're an adult [TS]

00:13:37   computers will be super geniuses and [TS]

00:13:38   they're not AI is really really hard and [TS]

00:13:41   we don't understand even our own minds [TS]

00:13:43   work and it's not easy to you know that [TS]

00:13:46   it's unlike all the other situations [TS]

00:13:48   like games like chess and go in jeopardy [TS]

00:13:50   it's not a controlled situation is the [TS]

00:13:52   real world and our problem is [TS]

00:13:53   synthesizing sensor input and processing [TS]

00:13:57   it and we don't even know her own [TS]

00:13:58   freakin brains do that we don't even [TS]

00:14:00   have a good model to work off of so what [TS]

00:14:01   should we were working off our brain now [TS]

00:14:03   should we do be doing something [TS]

00:14:04   different we're trying the best we can [TS]

00:14:06   but i think it's much harder problem [TS]

00:14:07   then the news media thinks it is do we [TS]

00:14:11   know when the bear with me for a second [TS]

00:14:13   here do we know when the Tesla [TS]

00:14:14   supercharger started getting installed [TS]

00:14:16   that was like couple years ago right [TS]

00:14:18   maybe three or four years ago right so [TS]

00:14:20   one of the things that I've always [TS]

00:14:22   thought about electric cars being [TS]

00:14:25   completely not feasible is that how [TS]

00:14:28   could they possibly create enough [TS]

00:14:30   charging stations to make it feasible [TS]

00:14:32   and one company as of the time record is [TS]

00:14:37   claiming 613 supercharger stations and [TS]

00:14:39   i'm looking at this map and it's all [TS]

00:14:41   over the United States there's some in [TS]

00:14:43   Europe and Asia as well and they're sick [TS]

00:14:45   3628 superchargers across those 613 [TS]

00:14:49   stations and so this is surely not the [TS]

00:14:53   coverage that gas stations have but it [TS]

00:14:55   is a tremendous amount of coverage in [TS]

00:14:58   the United States which is not a small [TS]

00:14:59   country and so I think about that i [TS]

00:15:02   think well they really did kind of fix [TS]

00:15:03   this problem and then I think to myself [TS]

00:15:05   well let's assume for a second that in [TS]

00:15:07   order to get totally self-driving cars [TS]

00:15:09   you need to put you know sensors on the [TS]

00:15:11   on the sides of each Road in in between [TS]

00:15:13   each lane or what have you and [TS]

00:15:15   admittedly there are many gazillions of [TS]

00:15:17   miles of roadway in the United States [TS]

00:15:20   and but what if we just said hey on any [TS]

00:15:23   you know federally-recognized interstate [TS]

00:15:26   we're going to put the sensors necessary [TS]

00:15:28   to get self-driving cars on there if we [TS]

00:15:30   can put a whole bunch of superchargers [TS]

00:15:32   out there in the span of about four [TS]

00:15:34   years since the model ass [TS]

00:15:35   we might be able to do this thing that I [TS]

00:15:38   sitting here now that seems just [TS]

00:15:40   completely implausible but I thought [TS]

00:15:41   that the superchargers or what is now [TS]

00:15:43   the superchargers was implausible and [TS]

00:15:45   that seems to Fort alright so you never [TS]

00:15:46   really know [TS]

00:15:47   well I think you're overestimating the [TS]

00:15:49   superchargers because first off you [TS]

00:15:51   think the supercharger map looks [TS]

00:15:53   impressive until you were to put it [TS]

00:15:55   side-by-side with the map of gas [TS]

00:15:56   stations so sure you get a certain [TS]

00:15:58   amount of time and gas stations you felt [TS]

00:16:00   pretty quick [TS]

00:16:01   gas stations you're not there at the [TS]

00:16:02   pump for very long right so do the math [TS]

00:16:04   on that you know if we convert all the [TS]

00:16:07   cars to electric coming out is there [TS]

00:16:08   enough superchargers to support the [TS]

00:16:10   existing testicles [TS]

00:16:11   maybe but charging the test was takes so [TS]

00:16:13   much longer that you would need more [TS]

00:16:15   supercharging stations not fewer to [TS]

00:16:17   support the number of cars if they were [TS]

00:16:20   eventually to become all-electric so I'm [TS]

00:16:22   not saying it's you know it's an amazing [TS]

00:16:23   feat and surely enough for long car [TS]

00:16:25   trips for the number of people who have [TS]

00:16:26   testicles right now right but it's so [TS]

00:16:29   far from you know that and that's a [TS]

00:16:31   fairly easy problem the grand scheme [TS]

00:16:33   it's just keep making more of these [TS]

00:16:34   stations and you keep selling more of [TS]

00:16:35   the cars and the corresponding stations [TS]

00:16:36   and you know it should all work out so I [TS]

00:16:38   think it's totally feasible as would be [TS]

00:16:40   putting things in the roads are doing [TS]

00:16:42   what you need to do especially limited [TS]

00:16:44   scope just New York City just london or [TS]

00:16:47   you know regions of the country [TS]

00:16:48   especially ones with not a lot of [TS]

00:16:49   weather but then you look at how the [TS]

00:16:51   United States government spends money [TS]

00:16:53   and we can't even keep our bridges from [TS]

00:16:54   falling into rivers can can't fill the [TS]

00:16:58   potholes that are covering every street [TS]

00:17:00   you know so it had in the past couple [TS]

00:17:03   decades the US has not been really good [TS]

00:17:05   about infrastructure spending so that is [TS]

00:17:07   definitely technology is a lot of people [TS]

00:17:09   in the chat room trying to send me [TS]

00:17:10   videos ever seen this video have you [TS]

00:17:11   seen this video like things that look [TS]

00:17:12   impressive and controlled circumstances [TS]

00:17:14   don't necessarily translate to the the [TS]

00:17:19   test of drop his car onto any road in [TS]

00:17:22   the entire United States and it can [TS]

00:17:23   drive you to anywhere else in the United [TS]

00:17:24   States it's it's a very complicated [TS]

00:17:27   problem [TS]

00:17:28   well the thing is to like these are [TS]

00:17:29   these are very infrastructure heavy [TS]

00:17:32   problems if you get if you start getting [TS]

00:17:33   into like you know fixing the roads are [TS]

00:17:36   improving the roads to be more friendly [TS]

00:17:37   toward self-driving like [TS]

00:17:39   like the reason why superchargers could [TS]

00:17:41   get built and cover a big portion of the [TS]

00:17:43   country and useful way is because you [TS]

00:17:45   don't have to put one under every square [TS]

00:17:48   foot of road you can kind of cherry pick [TS]

00:17:51   where they go and they serve wide areas [TS]

00:17:53   whereas anything that involves modifying [TS]

00:17:55   the roads themselves or just even as [TS]

00:17:59   Johnson they just bring the roads up to [TS]

00:18:01   standards of like basic maintenance and [TS]

00:18:04   like painting lines on them [TS]

00:18:06   yeah looks like the lines on the road we [TS]

00:18:08   tend to paint those so much in this [TS]

00:18:10   country [TS]

00:18:10   exactly so like basic things like that [TS]

00:18:13   it's easy it you wouldn't need to put [TS]

00:18:16   advanced sensors and everything on the [TS]

00:18:18   highways because the highways are easy [TS]

00:18:21   for self-driving cars to navigate [TS]

00:18:23   I mean my test can do that you know [TS]

00:18:25   already fairly well like the highway is [TS]

00:18:27   the easy part [TS]

00:18:28   the hard part is all the other roads and [TS]

00:18:32   you know it sounds like it's there it's [TS]

00:18:34   such a hard problem because the roads [TS]

00:18:36   that cover our country and other [TS]

00:18:38   countries but the cars in particular [TS]

00:18:41   especially when you're recording where [TS]

00:18:42   me and John live in the northeast where [TS]

00:18:44   weather is severe [TS]

00:18:46   everything is ancient and there's no [TS]

00:18:48   budget to fix anything it's just a [TS]

00:18:50   really hard problem that like the roads [TS]

00:18:53   that I encounter everyday are filled [TS]

00:18:56   with like weird little edge cases and [TS]

00:18:58   weird conditions and not ideal [TS]

00:19:00   conditions unmaintained portions or like [TS]

00:19:03   vague things like am I supposed to be in [TS]

00:19:05   that Lane to go over there or not like [TS]

00:19:07   it's hard even for humans to navigate [TS]

00:19:10   and so to make AI algorithms to to [TS]

00:19:14   navigate these things is just really [TS]

00:19:16   hard and I do think you know similar i [TS]

00:19:18   do think it is possible i do think that [TS]

00:19:21   we are making progress in that area and [TS]

00:19:24   I do expect to see meaningful progress [TS]

00:19:27   in that area within 10 to 20 years but I [TS]

00:19:30   i really think it's not as close as a [TS]

00:19:32   lot of people think just because it is [TS]

00:19:35   so hard and that last mile of like you [TS]

00:19:39   know making sure we can go on [TS]

00:19:40   ninety-five percent of the roads is a [TS]

00:19:42   heck of a lot easier than making sure [TS]

00:19:44   that you can self drive on a hundred [TS]

00:19:45   percent of the roads and then parking [TS]

00:19:47   lots think of parking for cryin out loud [TS]

00:19:49   how to find your way into the parking [TS]

00:19:50   lots of which way you go in and out [TS]

00:19:52   like you know like there's a little [TS]

00:19:53   miniature road signs that aren't real [TS]

00:19:55   road signs and the lines they paint in [TS]

00:19:56   parking lots are almost meaningless and [TS]

00:19:58   where do you go and are you know it's [TS]

00:20:01   not that they would suddenly kill people [TS]

00:20:02   in parking lots that would be more like [TS]

00:20:04   electric car gridlock as they all are [TS]

00:20:06   paralyzed by indecision about what the [TS]

00:20:08   hell that's supposed to do we're [TS]

00:20:09   supposed to go and thinking they arrive [TS]

00:20:10   like this again what I'm thinking of is [TS]

00:20:11   not the situation where the car can do [TS]

00:20:14   the driving for you for a certain [TS]

00:20:15   portion of time but the idea where you [TS]

00:20:16   don't have to have a driver's license to [TS]

00:20:18   get from place to place in a car you [TS]

00:20:19   don't need a driver's license to get on [TS]

00:20:21   the subway and get places right that's [TS]

00:20:23   public transportation that's truly [TS]

00:20:24   driverless as far as the passenger is [TS]

00:20:26   concerned our bus or whatever greater [TS]

00:20:28   there's somebody driving those foot in [TS]

00:20:29   most cases are not always in trains [TS]

00:20:30   because you can make trains driverless a [TS]

00:20:32   lot easier because their tracks and [TS]

00:20:34   everything but it's like to get to get [TS]

00:20:38   the big winner of saying we are a [TS]

00:20:39   society where I just types tab something [TS]

00:20:42   on my phone and a magic personal asst [TS]

00:20:44   the vehicle comes and I get in and the [TS]

00:20:46   vehicle doesn't care whether have a [TS]

00:20:47   license or have ever driven that just [TS]

00:20:51   seems so close to some people like 35 [TS]

00:20:53   years away surely and it just it just [TS]

00:20:55   seems so incredibly far away to me [TS]

00:20:57   because think of it you can do the [TS]

00:20:58   extrapolation thing like in the sci-fi [TS]

00:20:59   movies where they'll have a premise for [TS]

00:21:02   a sci-fi movie that's for the purposes [TS]

00:21:03   of the movie like this thing is possible [TS]

00:21:04   but they never say well if it's possible [TS]

00:21:06   to do this say making you know robots [TS]

00:21:10   look just like humans that fool humans [TS]

00:21:12   if it's possible to do that what else [TS]

00:21:14   must be possible given that technology [TS]

00:21:16   like what does it mean to have that talk [TS]

00:21:18   technology so soft driving cars if [TS]

00:21:21   you're able to get a car that can drive [TS]

00:21:23   anywhere as well as it is a pretty good [TS]

00:21:26   human what else month that must that [TS]

00:21:28   mean in terms of the technology [TS]

00:21:29   available like would be slavery to make [TS]

00:21:32   that kind of intelligence drive a car if [TS]

00:21:35   it truly is able to is their way to do [TS]

00:21:36   that without being conscious and [TS]

00:21:38   intelligent as as a human and ok gray [TS]

00:21:40   understand like it's anyway [TS]

00:21:44   don't hold your breath but you can have [TS]

00:21:47   really awesome cruise control and can [TS]

00:21:49   maybe take your hands off the wheel on [TS]

00:21:50   the highway for a long time and maybe if [TS]

00:21:52   you live in a major metropolitan area or [TS]

00:21:54   silicon valley you don't have to have a [TS]

00:21:56   license at all within similar city [TS]

00:21:57   limits all perfectly possible but i [TS]

00:22:01   would still bother to get your license [TS]

00:22:03   because it will give you more freedom [TS]

00:22:05   then the alternative until then i can [TS]

00:22:09   temporarily take my hands off the wheel [TS]

00:22:10   for three seconds while straight highway [TS]

00:22:12   21 kappa tightly capped drink you know [TS]

00:22:16   you say that but that is a that is a [TS]

00:22:18   pretty nice change yeah I definitely [TS]

00:22:20   done these squeeze that's that I've done [TS]

00:22:22   squeezed between your thighs and hope [TS]

00:22:23   you don't spill approach numerous times [TS]

00:22:25   and a given my history I can tell you [TS]

00:22:27   about how well that works out really [TS]

00:22:30   quick to finish our follow-up an [TS]

00:22:32   anonymous applecare senior advisor wrote [TS]

00:22:34   in to tell us that applecare uses text [TS]

00:22:38   expander was that was the impression I [TS]

00:22:40   got from this email that's what you guys [TS]

00:22:41   have gotten from it right [TS]

00:22:43   it seemed like it was it was maybe not [TS]

00:22:45   necessarily the official tool they use [TS]

00:22:47   but that it was widely used and so that [TS]

00:22:49   means that comes up as in terms of [TS]

00:22:51   enterprise software people using a big [TS]

00:22:53   call center so on and so forth and the [TS]

00:22:55   other point this anonymous person [TS]

00:22:57   brought up was the applecare prohibits [TS]

00:23:00   the use of any third party sync service [TS]

00:23:01   that could contain confidential or [TS]

00:23:03   internal or customer data now I don't [TS]

00:23:05   know [TS]

00:23:05   textexpander sync service that qualifies [TS]

00:23:08   for it was obviously customer data [TS]

00:23:10   wouldn't be in there but maybe internal [TS]

00:23:13   data like maybe part of your little [TS]

00:23:14   snippets are contained internal [TS]

00:23:16   proprietary data or whatever this is the [TS]

00:23:18   tricky bit with enterprise software that [TS]

00:23:20   a lot of people drop like texts and [TS]

00:23:21   everyone's to go enterprise one of the [TS]

00:23:23   first hurdle is going to be that [TS]

00:23:25   Enterprise IT people always want to have [TS]

00:23:27   everything in-house so I want to run my [TS]

00:23:29   own sync server and all by piece of [TS]

00:23:30   hardware and i'll put a server on it but [TS]

00:23:32   I don't want my company's data going to [TS]

00:23:35   your server sex offender because i have [TS]

00:23:37   no idea what's going on your service and [TS]

00:23:38   for compliance reasons and so on and so [TS]

00:23:40   forth [TS]

00:23:41   it has to all be internal so text [TS]

00:23:42   expander will you please sell me an [TS]

00:23:44   internal TextExpander sync server that i [TS]

00:23:46   will run and text vendor as far as I [TS]

00:23:48   know has not gone that far down the [TS]

00:23:50   enterprise rabbit hole but if they want [TS]

00:23:52   to keep customers like applecare and [TS]

00:23:56   they're going to force everyone to use [TS]

00:23:57   thinking because that's their your [TS]

00:23:59   premier feature for enterprises they may [TS]

00:24:01   have a man up having to do that [TS]

00:24:04   our first concert tonight is hover hover [TS]

00:24:07   is the best way to buy and manage domain [TS]

00:24:09   names to hover com and use promo code [TS]

00:24:12   alexa play fish for ten percent off your [TS]

00:24:15   first purchase [TS]

00:24:16   oh when you have a great idea you want a [TS]

00:24:18   great domain name its catchy and [TS]

00:24:19   memorable however gives you exactly what [TS]

00:24:21   you need to find the perfect domain for [TS]

00:24:22   your ideas you can get started actually [TS]

00:24:24   working on it never gives you easy to [TS]

00:24:26   use powerful tools to buy a managed [TS]

00:24:27   domain so anyone can do it and support [TS]

00:24:29   he was always ready if you need a hand [TS]

00:24:31   however known for their no wait no hold [TS]

00:24:33   no transfer phone service so when you [TS]

00:24:35   call a real live human being is ready to [TS]

00:24:37   help plus the great online tutorials and [TS]

00:24:39   email support if you hate the phone like [TS]

00:24:41   me now less than five minutes you can [TS]

00:24:43   find the domain name you want and get it [TS]

00:24:45   up and running with hover all you have [TS]

00:24:46   to do a search for a few keywords and [TS]

00:24:48   however will show you the best available [TS]

00:24:49   options across all the crazy domain [TS]

00:24:51   extensions out there now if you forever [TS]

00:24:53   remain anywhere else you know that this [TS]

00:24:55   can be a very unpleasant experience at [TS]

00:24:58   other registrar's to make it very [TS]

00:24:59   complicated or it may be a little bit [TS]

00:25:02   scary feeling and you just want to get [TS]

00:25:04   what you need and get out of there may [TS]

00:25:05   be no they try to upsell you with crazy [TS]

00:25:07   stuff that you're not really sure that [TS]

00:25:08   you need [TS]

00:25:09   they make you pay extra for things to [TS]

00:25:10   upgrade that you think should come for [TS]

00:25:12   free things like who is privacy [TS]

00:25:14   however does not believe any of this [TS]

00:25:15   stuff they don't believe in heavy-handed [TS]

00:25:17   upselling and they don't believe in [TS]

00:25:19   crappy designer making you feel scammed [TS]

00:25:20   instead of charging you for something [TS]

00:25:22   that should be their biggest include [TS]

00:25:24   everything you need with your domain [TS]

00:25:25   name you get a smart control panel who [TS]

00:25:27   is privacy always for free and they even [TS]

00:25:29   offer a free Valley transfer service you [TS]

00:25:32   can skip the hassle trying to move a [TS]

00:25:33   whole bunch of domains over there one [TS]

00:25:34   that you have a whole bunch they will [TS]

00:25:36   actually if you want to they will take [TS]

00:25:38   your login information for your old [TS]

00:25:40   record store and do the entire transfer [TS]

00:25:41   for you and make sure that they get all [TS]

00:25:43   the dns and everything so you don't [TS]

00:25:44   break actually break anything so check [TS]

00:25:46   it out today [TS]

00:25:47   hover is great they have email hosting [TS]

00:25:49   if you need that it you know very [TS]

00:25:51   reasonable prices they are twenty bucks [TS]

00:25:52   a year into a fully functional email [TS]

00:25:54   account and remain with 10 gigs of [TS]

00:25:55   storage you can pay more 29 bucks year [TS]

00:25:58   for the big mailbox which is a full [TS]

00:26:00   terabyte of storage and if you want to [TS]

00:26:02   email forwarding just five bucks a year [TS]

00:26:04   check this out today go to hover com and [TS]

00:26:06   use promo code alexa play fish for ten [TS]

00:26:09   percent off your first purchase thanks a [TS]

00:26:11   lot to hover for sponsoring our show you [TS]

00:26:13   are the trolius of all the trolls [TS]

00:26:16   by the way we're getting some real-time [TS]

00:26:19   follow-up from several different sources [TS]

00:26:20   that says apple does have a site license [TS]

00:26:24   for text expander so it is at least [TS]

00:26:27   partially blessed from what I'm told [TS]

00:26:29   in any case market wanted to tell us in [TS]

00:26:31   your quest for more home automation or [TS]

00:26:33   excuses to get more home automation sort [TS]

00:26:36   of things tell us about your [TS]

00:26:37   surveillance camera what is surveilling [TS]

00:26:39   exactly ducks [TS]

00:26:40   ok anything else you'd like to add is so [TS]

00:26:46   last year we had a a duck that was [TS]

00:26:49   laying eggs and nesting in our backyard [TS]

00:26:52   and then the ducklings all hatched and [TS]

00:26:55   they all got to the nearby hudson river [TS]

00:26:57   and we actually found a few months later [TS]

00:27:00   we finally kind of where they lived it [TS]

00:27:01   sits near park that we sometimes go to [TS]

00:27:02   and yeah they all seem to survive and [TS]

00:27:05   pretty great so that came back this year [TS]

00:27:08   to lay eggs in the same spot again I [TS]

00:27:10   guess this is a thing ducks do once they [TS]

00:27:11   find a good spot they'll come back the [TS]

00:27:13   next year and lay more eggs there i [TS]

00:27:14   ordered a whole bunch of home camera [TS]

00:27:17   equipment IP camera equipment to watch [TS]

00:27:20   the duck and to check on the duck and [TS]

00:27:22   then if I can figure out a decent way to [TS]

00:27:23   do it to possibly live broadcast the [TS]

00:27:25   duck [TS]

00:27:26   this is kind of another part of of my [TS]

00:27:27   recent discovery that everything outside [TS]

00:27:29   the apple ecosystem costs nothing and [TS]

00:27:32   technology is amazing [TS]

00:27:33   these days it's like tons of [TS]

00:27:37   ridiculously like capable cheap hardware [TS]

00:27:40   out there to do things that used to be [TS]

00:27:43   really complicated or impossible so the [TS]

00:27:46   way i have this working [TS]

00:27:47   first of all my my Wi-Fi doesn't reach [TS]

00:27:50   the backyard very well so the first [TS]

00:27:52   thing i did was i ordered another [TS]

00:27:54   wireless access point from ubiquity and [TS]

00:27:57   i don't think i've talked about my [TS]

00:27:59   ubiquity gear on the show yet have I not [TS]

00:28:02   to my recollection so a couple of maybe [TS]

00:28:05   a year and a half two years ago and have [TS]

00:28:07   something like that my apple airport [TS]

00:28:09   extreme started becoming flaky and this [TS]

00:28:12   is a this makes me said the airport [TS]

00:28:14   extreme is used to be rock-solid they [TS]

00:28:16   used to be like the best route as you [TS]

00:28:17   can get and these days [TS]

00:28:20   not only have they fallen behind on a [TS]

00:28:21   lot of the features and at then they [TS]

00:28:23   were never amazing on the features but [TS]

00:28:25   they were at least i think more [TS]

00:28:26   competitive in the past but also i've [TS]

00:28:28   had [TS]

00:28:29   only mixed success with their [TS]

00:28:30   reliability in the last maybe five years [TS]

00:28:33   or so you're talking about the one that [TS]

00:28:35   you gave me using that's the one you [TS]

00:28:36   have trouble i think so great [TS]

00:28:39   yep I mean well you know so far I'd say [TS]

00:28:42   that but like my previous flat one last [TS]

00:28:44   a really long time and I think what [TS]

00:28:46   turned out to be wrong with it was the [TS]

00:28:47   stupid power brick which really isn't [TS]

00:28:49   the fault of the overall thing and it [TS]

00:28:52   wasn't plugged into a surge strip so [TS]

00:28:53   it's probably nobody's also i I've had [TS]

00:28:55   very good luck with with the airports [TS]

00:28:57   and the one that you gave me [TS]

00:28:58   so if I'm gonna have a long enough to [TS]

00:29:00   say one way or the other but so far it's [TS]

00:29:01   been just as solid as all the other ones [TS]

00:29:03   and i remember when you you're talking [TS]

00:29:04   about getting this ubiquity gear Michael [TS]

00:29:06   marcos found some way to spend more [TS]

00:29:08   money on computer equipment is working [TS]

00:29:10   surprise there but actually less money [TS]

00:29:13   out there like that maybe um and I'm [TS]

00:29:16   interested in a kind of but there I [TS]

00:29:17   think the reason I keep coming back to [TS]

00:29:18   the airport ones is because of all the [TS]

00:29:21   integrations that I have with them and [TS]

00:29:23   every time I look up how to do those [TS]

00:29:25   integration with other things it just [TS]

00:29:27   seems ever so slightly more complicated [TS]

00:29:29   not much more complicated like oh and [TS]

00:29:31   you know I want to hook my printer up to [TS]

00:29:33   it to USB this one doesn't have a USB [TS]

00:29:35   port but you can buy little dongle five [TS]

00:29:37   dollars that lets you do that i'm sure [TS]

00:29:39   that will work fine but if it doesn't [TS]

00:29:40   you might have tried different dongle [TS]

00:29:41   and you know does how do i connect to it [TS]

00:29:44   don't have to come bring up somewhere [TS]

00:29:46   web UI or to get to use the shiny apple [TS]

00:29:48   airport whatever thing so i'm i'm still [TS]

00:29:51   mostly open to the idea of sort of more [TS]

00:29:56   reliable enterprise callable or router [TS]

00:30:00   type equipment but i guess i need the [TS]

00:30:02   apple stuff to be crappier first I think [TS]

00:30:05   it really started to really start [TS]

00:30:06   flaking out on me but so far I think I'd [TS]

00:30:09   like three of them in my life and [TS]

00:30:10   they've all lasted just until they [TS]

00:30:13   really need to be replaced anyway and so [TS]

00:30:17   far you told them pretty well tow good [TS]

00:30:19   enjoy it with its fan silent silent fan [TS]

00:30:22   or I'm old enough now that I can hear it [TS]

00:30:24   let the eggs either way you win but yeah [TS]

00:30:27   so the thing with you here is that first [TS]

00:30:30   of all a huge warning there's a bit of a [TS]

00:30:32   learning curve and there's some weird [TS]

00:30:34   java based software that you have to [TS]

00:30:36   install when you first set up a whack a [TS]

00:30:38   wireless access point not the router the [TS]

00:30:40   router come out cannot be done web-based [TS]

00:30:41   but there [TS]

00:30:42   matter does not include whack these are [TS]

00:30:44   separate components like they originally [TS]

00:30:46   long long ago used to always be so [TS]

00:30:48   ubiquity stuff [TS]

00:30:49   the components are all separate and [TS]

00:30:51   there is a learning curve i would not [TS]

00:30:53   recommend that you like you know tell [TS]

00:30:55   your non-technical friends or relatives [TS]

00:30:56   i'll just go out and buy the ubiquity [TS]

00:30:58   gear no don't do that but if you listen [TS]

00:30:59   to the show you could probably handle it [TS]

00:31:01   you probably figure it out [TS]

00:31:02   i I didn't have any trouble with it and [TS]

00:31:05   I'm not you know I'm a computer nerd I'm [TS]

00:31:07   a programmer but I'm not like a [TS]

00:31:08   networking gear expert but a lot of [TS]

00:31:10   things that can do that i just don't [TS]

00:31:12   enable and don't do the the java [TS]

00:31:15   software that manages the installation [TS]

00:31:18   of the laps if you don't do a lot of [TS]

00:31:21   crazy features you don't need to run [TS]

00:31:22   that software continuously where you're [TS]

00:31:24   running it [TS]

00:31:25   do you run it on where is it where they [TS]

00:31:28   run continuously on one of your clients [TS]

00:31:29   on the router on the access point [TS]

00:31:32   understand where it's running any [TS]

00:31:33   computer so it can rate you know it's [TS]

00:31:35   java-based there's a mac version so when [TS]

00:31:37   i installed i have on my laptop so i [TS]

00:31:39   want to put job my desktops but so i [TS]

00:31:41   have it on my laptop where I put [TS]

00:31:43   software that i don't but i don't [TS]

00:31:44   necessarily trust like crazy chinese [TS]

00:31:47   jailbreak apps and Java which are [TS]

00:31:50   categorized together at and anyway some [TS]

00:31:54   people running on like linux cloud [TS]

00:31:56   service you can like running online [TS]

00:31:57   interpreters and you have to be in your [TS]

00:31:58   network necessarily i'd i haven't gotten [TS]

00:32:00   that advance with it but it doesn't [TS]

00:32:02   really matter anyway so you set this [TS]

00:32:04   stuff up and once you set it up you [TS]

00:32:06   basically don't have to touch it and [TS]

00:32:08   also once you set it up things like [TS]

00:32:10   because of this dot camera setup thing i [TS]

00:32:13   wanted to expand my Wi-Fi coverage to [TS]

00:32:17   more than one access point and apple [TS]

00:32:19   made this easy in the past to you know I [TS]

00:32:21   recognize that but ubiquity makes it it [TS]

00:32:23   possibly even easier that you basically [TS]

00:32:25   plug in the access point you just add it [TS]

00:32:27   to the network with like two clicks and [TS]

00:32:29   then it's just part of the network and [TS]

00:32:31   it brought and so any changes you make [TS]

00:32:32   to the Wi-Fi network to if you want to [TS]

00:32:35   change the password anything it [TS]

00:32:36   propagates like it its you just have to [TS]

00:32:38   manage one network and it applies to all [TS]

00:32:41   the access points are on it really [TS]

00:32:42   advanced features here [TS]

00:32:44   it features that i am not even qualified [TS]

00:32:46   to describe because i said i'm not a pro [TS]

00:32:49   network engineer so I i don't i don't [TS]

00:32:51   know everything these things can do I [TS]

00:32:52   don't appreciate everything these things [TS]

00:32:54   can do but i do know that they compete [TS]

00:32:56   eat apparently very well against [TS]

00:32:58   high-end cisco routers and and other [TS]

00:33:00   like you know super high-end [TS]

00:33:01   enterprise-grade stuff but it's really [TS]

00:33:03   surprisingly cheap so the a Wi-Fi access [TS]

00:33:07   point is usually around a hundred bucks [TS]

00:33:09   and when you get it you know in that [TS]

00:33:12   range and the the router is you know [TS]

00:33:15   just as dedicated little box that [TS]

00:33:16   doesn't have wireless itself it's just a [TS]

00:33:18   router the router that i get it i have [TS]

00:33:20   the the ER light 3-2 edge router like [TS]

00:33:23   three and i think that's like 80 or 90 [TS]

00:33:25   bucks so if you're looking at total of [TS]

00:33:27   about 200 bucks to get a router plus a [TS]

00:33:30   decent access point and it is just [TS]

00:33:34   awesome it is solid the gear so far I've [TS]

00:33:38   had no problems I've never had to reboot [TS]

00:33:40   it [TS]

00:33:40   I have once or twice rebooted it because [TS]

00:33:44   I thought it might be the cause of a [TS]

00:33:46   problem and that but it just wasn't like [TS]

00:33:49   I recruited and it came back up and [TS]

00:33:50   problem-solving ago [TS]

00:33:51   that's right it was the finest problem [TS]

00:33:53   so it's so I there has literally never [TS]

00:33:56   been a problem that i have traced to [TS]

00:33:59   this routing gear and it's never been a [TS]

00:34:01   problem that rebooting fixed its it is [TS]

00:34:05   just rock solid and i know i'm not the [TS]

00:34:07   only one because you look at the reviews [TS]

00:34:09   of the all the ubiquity gear and it also [TS]

00:34:12   it's all just stellar [TS]

00:34:14   people love this stuff and the only [TS]

00:34:16   complaint people have is learning curve [TS]

00:34:18   and that java software to set up the [TS]

00:34:19   lapse and that's it [TS]

00:34:21   if you can get past those things is just [TS]

00:34:23   awesome how many how many different [TS]

00:34:25   ports on the dresser [TS]

00:34:27   it's it's not really made to be like a [TS]

00:34:28   built-in switch like because it's like [TS]

00:34:30   every it's like if you ever set up like [TS]

00:34:32   a pfsense router and put that like I [TS]

00:34:33   think it has three or four ports on it [TS]

00:34:35   maybe three but they're all separate [TS]

00:34:38   interfaces so you could like have like [TS]

00:34:40   two inbound connections and you can [TS]

00:34:42   bridge them or you couldn't you can load [TS]

00:34:44   balance between them instead you can [TS]

00:34:46   configure it how you want but for most [TS]

00:34:48   cases you're only going to want to use [TS]

00:34:49   one in one out and then you and I have a [TS]

00:34:52   separate little HP switch next to it [TS]

00:34:54   that's the other category of software or [TS]

00:34:57   hardware that I have you talked about [TS]

00:34:58   USB hubs and now it's hard to find good [TS]

00:35:01   ones or like driving closures or [TS]

00:35:03   whatever my latest not a white whale are [TS]

00:35:07   my latest the thing to battle is network [TS]

00:35:10   switches XP done i'm telling HP switches [TS]

00:35:13   are awesome but do they make a my big [TS]

00:35:16   thing is heat and power supply noise [TS]

00:35:18   blade or not the 1i have a feeling about [TS]

00:35:21   the show it's a little tiny 8-port [TS]

00:35:23   gigabit one it is not like a full-size [TS]

00:35:26   one I don't think there's any fan and I [TS]

00:35:27   don't think there's room for one the HP [TS]

00:35:29   procurve 1410 dash 8 g now that I [TS]

00:35:33   switched all the stuff like maybe a year [TS]

00:35:35   and a half two years ago and I've really [TS]

00:35:36   just had zero problems with the network [TS]

00:35:38   since then and I i really cannot [TS]

00:35:41   recommend ubiquity gear enough if you [TS]

00:35:44   are a geek enough to be willing to set [TS]

00:35:47   that up so you we somehow ended up on [TS]

00:35:50   this in talking about the camera so you [TS]

00:35:53   said you had started looking into it was [TS]

00:35:55   you we we had you had started looking [TS]

00:35:57   into broadcasting the dock to the [TS]

00:35:59   internet and you decided to abandon that [TS]

00:36:01   or at least temporarily abandon it [TS]

00:36:04   so you know I wanted to have some kind [TS]

00:36:06   of live webcam kind of thing IP camera [TS]

00:36:09   kind of thing looking at the duck nest [TS]

00:36:11   area both for potential future live [TS]

00:36:14   broadcasting to nobody in the internet [TS]

00:36:16   and also just for like me and Tiffany [TS]

00:36:18   like you know take our phones and check [TS]

00:36:20   out his is the dark outside the Ducks [TS]

00:36:21   outside you know maybe we won't let the [TS]

00:36:23   dog out yet or we just want to know like [TS]

00:36:25   when it has the dot-com last night when [TS]

00:36:27   was the duck here [TS]

00:36:28   did any raccoons try to eat the duck so [TS]

00:36:31   I set up this camera and you know you on [TS]

00:36:33   amazon you try to find an IP camera and [TS]

00:36:35   there's just a billion of them [TS]

00:36:37   hi it is really hard to figure out like [TS]

00:36:39   what makes a good IP camera so the one I [TS]

00:36:43   got is the tree is a try vision on [TS]

00:36:45   amazon it was very highly rated it's [TS]

00:36:47   okay they the colors on it suck but the [TS]

00:36:50   resolution is decent has built in Wi-Fi [TS]

00:36:52   built-in web server and all this crazy [TS]

00:36:54   garbage like ftp server and SD card slot [TS]

00:36:57   and you can upload to an ass if you want [TS]

00:36:59   to its it just crazy and it's of course [TS]

00:37:02   outdoor capable and what makes you think [TS]

00:37:04   super easy is not only does it support [TS]

00:37:06   Wi-Fi which is one reason i was trying [TS]

00:37:08   to sell my Wi-Fi network bye-bye more [TS]

00:37:10   ubiquity here looks as well how about a [TS]

00:37:12   topic the person it is [TS]

00:37:14   yes yes yes that's right it's a look at [TS]

00:37:17   one of these APIs cameras it has it has [TS]

00:37:18   Wi-Fi most of them to only [TS]

00:37:20   yep how everything over ethernet or even [TS]

00:37:23   worse just ethernet and power separately [TS]

00:37:25   but this one has all those things you [TS]

00:37:27   can do PE you can and power reason it is [TS]

00:37:31   also very awesome you have internet in [TS]

00:37:33   and you have a little AC adapter and [TS]

00:37:36   then out you have just ethernet with [TS]

00:37:38   power on the unused pins of it it allows [TS]

00:37:40   you to run just one cable to things that [TS]

00:37:44   need that can take the power reason it [TS]

00:37:46   and then that can then supply power and [TS]

00:37:49   data to them so it's often used for IP [TS]

00:37:51   cameras also often used for wireless [TS]

00:37:53   access points and all the biggies [TS]

00:37:54   wireless access points do this and they [TS]

00:37:56   usually come with a little injector that [TS]

00:37:57   you need you can have a wireless access [TS]

00:37:58   point somewhere in a ceiling or up on a [TS]

00:38:01   wall wherever and you only run one cable [TS]

00:38:03   and that cable can be as long or short [TS]

00:38:06   as an ethernet cable needs to be and can [TS]

00:38:09   be so you can have a very long cable [TS]

00:38:11   that you just have one thing to and you [TS]

00:38:13   have power and data in that one cable [TS]

00:38:15   it's great so that's right it's with the [TS]

00:38:16   with the camera i originally ran over [TS]

00:38:19   Wi-Fi [TS]

00:38:19   it was kind of cutting out and wasn't [TS]

00:38:21   correct quite great deal i didn't have [TS]

00:38:23   the second access point yet it was it [TS]

00:38:25   was there was a shipping delay on it [TS]

00:38:26   because everybody's buying these things [TS]

00:38:27   all at once so I ran power reset to it [TS]

00:38:30   using a powerline adapter kit to get [TS]

00:38:33   outside in the first place so this is [TS]

00:38:35   this is all this massive pile of complex [TS]

00:38:38   technology home powerline networking [TS]

00:38:40   running into a power of power over [TS]

00:38:42   ethernet injector that spans ethernet [TS]

00:38:45   cable across my patio that into a camera [TS]

00:38:47   that is showing a picture of my dog live [TS]

00:38:50   to my desktop and recording on this [TS]

00:38:51   motion all this stuff was like a total [TS]

00:38:54   of a couple hundred dollars and it does [TS]

00:38:56   these amazing things of showing me live [TS]

00:38:59   video the duck my backyard without a [TS]

00:39:01   whole lot of wiring without a whole lot [TS]

00:39:02   of effort and in pretty impressive [TS]

00:39:04   quality know what are you using to do [TS]

00:39:07   the motion detection and recording that [TS]

00:39:11   part is less pleasant [TS]

00:39:13   this is the the area of surveillance [TS]

00:39:16   type software like any kind of software [TS]

00:39:19   that can back and display IP camera [TS]

00:39:22   feeds and record them and possibly [TS]

00:39:25   detect motion on them and save them in [TS]

00:39:27   certain conditions this is not a great [TS]

00:39:30   area of software there's very few [TS]

00:39:31   choices the choices that are out there [TS]

00:39:33   seemed not amazing and I'm not gonna [TS]

00:39:36   name names in case someone listens who [TS]

00:39:38   writes one you can just assume i didn't [TS]

00:39:40   find yours they're there they're not [TS]

00:39:44   great but these are great software [TS]

00:39:45   packages and then I i briefly looked [TS]

00:39:48   into what would I do if I wanted to [TS]

00:39:50   stream this the internet and one way to [TS]

00:39:52   do it is the camera itself has it built [TS]

00:39:55   in our something MP whatever protocol is [TS]

00:39:58   like the streaming protocol for this [TS]

00:39:59   video it has a built-in server for that [TS]

00:40:02   but hey i don't think it can really take [TS]

00:40:04   a whole bunch connections at once and be [TS]

00:40:07   i don't really want to have everybody [TS]

00:40:10   hitting my home IP directly I'd rather [TS]

00:40:13   like relayed through a server somewhere [TS]

00:40:14   and then that provides both a level of [TS]

00:40:17   interaction for the home IP as well as a [TS]

00:40:19   capacity like to you know similar to how [TS]

00:40:21   we went we broadcast the show live [TS]

00:40:24   I'm bouncing this off of my webserver my [TS]

00:40:27   market or web server because that way [TS]

00:40:29   that is connected to this giant Internet [TS]

00:40:31   backbone that relays the audio to [TS]

00:40:33   everybody in a way fat way higher [TS]

00:40:35   capacity method than what i can do from [TS]

00:40:37   my house [TS]

00:40:38   the options to do that for video seemed [TS]

00:40:41   pretty slim and usually have Enterprise [TS]

00:40:45   pricing call us and you know if you need [TS]

00:40:48   more than one live you were a time you [TS]

00:40:50   need to call us or well that'll be three [TS]

00:40:53   thousand dollars please [TS]

00:40:55   or you know someone crazy crazy money to [TS]

00:40:57   do these things [TS]

00:40:58   many of them are like entire video [TS]

00:41:00   platforms where if you you want to live [TS]

00:41:02   if you want to transfer translate from [TS]

00:41:04   your or whatever MP video stream to a to [TS]

00:41:08   a video feed online people can just go [TS]

00:41:10   to and see all that that will use this [TS]

00:41:12   crazy software package and cost [TS]

00:41:15   thousands of dollars and call surprising [TS]

00:41:16   it's kind of a mess i did find YouTube [TS]

00:41:20   live streaming it seems it's kind of [TS]

00:41:23   like periscope and that like you can do [TS]

00:41:25   a live broadcast but then it wants to [TS]

00:41:27   like then save that as a video on your [TS]

00:41:29   account so it probably doesn't want the [TS]

00:41:31   live broadcast like a month-long that [TS]

00:41:32   probably won't work and then to get to [TS]

00:41:34   get youtube another pilot acts where you [TS]

00:41:36   have to use the open broadcasting [TS]

00:41:39   whatever whatever whatever called the [TS]

00:41:41   OBS yeah the open market server that [TS]

00:41:43   like all the gamers use [TS]

00:41:45   we have to use OBS [TS]

00:41:46   to window capture something that's [TS]

00:41:50   viewing the IP camera like a browser [TS]

00:41:51   window or something and then rebroadcast [TS]

00:41:54   to youtube live so this is like if I'm [TS]

00:41:57   gonna do this we're gonna actually live [TS]

00:41:59   broadcast this it's gonna basically [TS]

00:42:00   require like a computer dedicated to [TS]

00:42:04   this task 24-7 or as long as live [TS]

00:42:06   broadcasting and I just don't want to do [TS]

00:42:08   that I don't have a lot of extra [TS]

00:42:10   computers to dedicate to that and I just [TS]

00:42:12   don't I don't see more of it [TS]

00:42:14   did you look into this has nothing to do [TS]

00:42:17   with live broadcasting but just for your [TS]

00:42:19   own viewing did you look into [TS]

00:42:21   surveillance station on your Synology I [TS]

00:42:24   did but the the list of cameras that it [TS]

00:42:27   takes did not include the 1i got and [TS]

00:42:30   including any of the ones that seemed [TS]

00:42:32   highly rated on amazon right now and [TS]

00:42:34   also my synology the only i use almost [TS]

00:42:37   none of the software on it because the [TS]

00:42:40   only drive i really value my have [TS]

00:42:43   formatted on this technology in its own [TS]

00:42:44   native format is my time machine volume [TS]

00:42:48   because it's that the synology time [TS]

00:42:49   machine server is awesome it's way more [TS]

00:42:51   solid in my experience then any Apple [TS]

00:42:54   time machine from implementation and use [TS]

00:42:57   I think of some kind of open source time [TS]

00:42:59   machine thing that they built into that [TS]

00:43:00   but it is way more solid than direct [TS]

00:43:03   attacks disc has ever been for me and we [TS]

00:43:05   were solved then then a time machine [TS]

00:43:07   server on a mac mini or time machine [TS]

00:43:09   action are just running on an airport [TS]

00:43:10   extreme it whatever package technology [TS]

00:43:13   uses for their time machine server [TS]

00:43:15   I never hit problems with like oh it ran [TS]

00:43:17   out of space and have to format the [TS]

00:43:18   whole thing to actually make time [TS]

00:43:20   machine resume it never errors out H it [TS]

00:43:23   is just it just works and i have disk [TS]

00:43:25   quota set so that me and tiff share one [TS]

00:43:27   volume its i'm amazed it works as well [TS]

00:43:29   as it does given my experience with [TS]

00:43:31   other time machine options but it works [TS]

00:43:33   great [TS]

00:43:33   anyway my psychologist formats such that [TS]

00:43:36   the time machine volume on there is no [TS]

00:43:37   negative 1 all the rest of it is one [TS]

00:43:39   giant iscsi volume so the types of this [TS]

00:43:42   technology can't see it's just like you [TS]

00:43:43   know dumb box to the technology so that [TS]

00:43:46   I can't I don't really want to devote my [TS]

00:43:48   time machine space to this so i haven't [TS]

00:43:50   done that yet [TS]

00:43:51   well I ask because my dad set up an IP [TS]

00:43:55   camera with power over ethernet at his [TS]

00:43:57   house to point in his driveway [TS]

00:44:00   and has an ancient ipad just sitting [TS]

00:44:02   there streaming it in his office so we [TS]

00:44:05   can see when if people are coming up to [TS]

00:44:06   the house and he using surveillance [TS]

00:44:08   station on the ipad the other the app [TS]

00:44:11   for the iPad he uses it on this [TS]

00:44:15   technology and really really has had [TS]

00:44:17   wonderful things to say about it i've [TS]

00:44:19   seen it although i've not played with it [TS]

00:44:20   and it looks really solid to me and it [TS]

00:44:22   will leave in like send emails when it [TS]

00:44:24   detects motion with like a screen [TS]

00:44:25   capture it looks really really good if [TS]

00:44:28   it doesn't work with your camera there's [TS]

00:44:29   nothing you can really do about that and [TS]

00:44:31   obviously you've made different choices [TS]

00:44:32   with regard to your volume set up but if [TS]

00:44:36   anyone else is listening and has a [TS]

00:44:37   synology I've heard very very good [TS]

00:44:39   things about surveillance station can [TS]

00:44:41   also just kind of sounds creepy [TS]

00:44:43   oh you know I'm gonna set up [TS]

00:44:44   surveillance station in my house [TS]

00:44:46   yeah well there's that you don't respect [TS]

00:44:48   the privacy of your ducks know who knows [TS]

00:44:51   what they could be doing there are we [TS]

00:44:53   filming them 24 hours a day to be fair [TS]

00:44:55   it's only it's only one duck and so far [TS]

00:44:57   for potential future ducks [TS]

00:44:59   yeah i think though I brought you tacos [TS]

00:45:02   up here like where I can't wait to look [TS]

00:45:03   at marcos duck am now just sounds like [TS]

00:45:05   there's not going to be a duck camp so I [TS]

00:45:06   guess what people are gonna have to [TS]

00:45:07   settle for is like the highlights like [TS]

00:45:09   when something eventful happens like [TS]

00:45:11   that the extra something in you you [TS]

00:45:13   catch that then you can pull that clip [TS]

00:45:15   and then put that up on YouTube inside [TS]

00:45:16   here the hit here's the the exciting [TS]

00:45:19   part with the eggs hatch or the exciting [TS]

00:45:21   part when the record company somewhat by [TS]

00:45:23   hoppes doesn't follow the eggs hospices [TS]

00:45:26   is a terrible hunter and if you give him [TS]

00:45:28   a treat and it falls between his legs or [TS]

00:45:31   behind him he can't find it [TS]

00:45:33   his brain is the size of all not given [TS]

00:45:35   break and get his little shorts just two [TS]

00:45:37   nodes so like you know he's not doesn't [TS]

00:45:39   have the greatest sense of smell but [TS]

00:45:42   they look at you and say you did this to [TS]

00:45:43   me [TS]

00:45:44   selective breeding I used to be a wolf [TS]

00:45:46   and not look at me very sausage [TS]

00:45:49   he was never a wolf what if whatever [TS]

00:45:52   helps came from he could he's never [TS]

00:45:55   without a wolf long ago his ancestors [TS]

00:45:59   very sausage oh my goodness [TS]

00:46:03   your sponsor tonight by blue apron and a [TS]

00:46:05   blue apron calm / ATP to get your first [TS]

00:46:08   two meals for free [TS]

00:46:10   you need to know how to cook and not [TS]

00:46:12   only should you know your way around a [TS]

00:46:13   kitchen cooking at home means eating [TS]

00:46:15   healthier and saving money instead of [TS]

00:46:16   ordering expensive unhealthy takeout [TS]

00:46:18   every night where you start [TS]

00:46:20   blue apron has you covered for less than [TS]

00:46:22   ten dollars per meal blue paper delivers [TS]

00:46:24   all the fresh ingredients you need to [TS]

00:46:26   create home-cooked meals just follow the [TS]

00:46:28   easy step-by-step instructions for each [TS]

00:46:29   recipe with pictures of every step right [TS]

00:46:31   on the recipe cards and many more online [TS]

00:46:33   how to videos to teach you any [TS]

00:46:34   fundamentals and techniques may not be [TS]

00:46:36   familiar with each meal could be [TS]

00:46:38   prepared in 40 minutes or less and comes [TS]

00:46:40   exactly the ingredients you need no trip [TS]

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00:46:46   out every girl loves your dietary [TS]

00:46:47   preferences they make it a breeze to [TS]

00:46:49   discover and prepare dishes right in [TS]

00:46:51   your kitchen this week we have things [TS]

00:46:53   like fish piccata with fresh pasta and [TS]

00:46:55   pink lemon and teriyaki steak with [TS]

00:46:57   peanut dipping sauce jasmine rice and [TS]

00:46:58   baby bok choy and recipes are between [TS]

00:47:01   500 and 700 calories proportions they're [TS]

00:47:03   delicious and good for you right now you [TS]

00:47:05   can get your first two meals for free at [TS]

00:47:07   blue apron calm / ATP that's blue apron [TS]

00:47:11   calm / ATP and islets they personally [TS]

00:47:14   we've been bleep and customers for many [TS]

00:47:17   months before they sponsored our show I [TS]

00:47:18   think we've been with him for about a [TS]

00:47:19   year now and it we are still with them [TS]

00:47:23   when we don't get it for free like we [TS]

00:47:24   pay for it because the fuck are counted [TS]

00:47:27   before this partnership we pay for its [TS]

00:47:28   great and we're gonna keep doing it [TS]

00:47:30   because it not only is it great to not [TS]

00:47:32   have to decide what to cook every night [TS]

00:47:34   for the family but it also really is [TS]

00:47:36   making us better cooks like now even [TS]

00:47:38   like we don't we don't we have them [TS]

00:47:39   three nights a week and for the other [TS]

00:47:42   night of the week now I'm a way better [TS]

00:47:44   cook than I was before we started way [TS]

00:47:45   better and I i have techniques I've [TS]

00:47:47   never done before [TS]

00:47:48   I'm more comfortable cooking ingredients [TS]

00:47:50   and cuisines I've never was never [TS]

00:47:51   comfortable before so I we really had a [TS]

00:47:54   good time with Raven is a little [TS]

00:47:56   different tonight too [TS]

00:47:57   we still we didn't get like a free trial [TS]

00:47:58   as part of the sponsorship and the free [TS]

00:48:00   trial ended and i kept paying for like [TS]

00:48:03   now I'm just a regular customer [TS]

00:48:05   same here Mike most the most exciting [TS]

00:48:07   thing for me still is there's a [TS]

00:48:08   different me like I haven't I guess they [TS]

00:48:10   repeat after a year because markets been [TS]

00:48:12   at it for the year and they start to [TS]

00:48:13   repeat but I [TS]

00:48:14   I have had zero repeats like it's it's a [TS]

00:48:16   different meal every single time which [TS]

00:48:18   for someone who's old entire like I'm [TS]

00:48:21   like you eventually get a repertoire of [TS]

00:48:22   meals that you like or that your family [TS]

00:48:24   likes or whatever and just the [TS]

00:48:26   excitement to have a different thing [TS]

00:48:28   every single time which sometimes we [TS]

00:48:31   made repeats by the way you get to keep [TS]

00:48:32   the recipe cards sometimes I'll have one [TS]

00:48:33   that I like and we will make that on our [TS]

00:48:35   own just buy the ingredients ourselves [TS]

00:48:37   so we've been like manually done repeats [TS]

00:48:39   but just know that it's you know it's [TS]

00:48:41   always something different and we're not [TS]

00:48:43   particularly adventurous eater so this [TS]

00:48:44   kind of forces us to be slightly [TS]

00:48:46   adventurous we still didn't you know you [TS]

00:48:47   get to pick what your preferences are so [TS]

00:48:49   we still didn't pick any weird stuff [TS]

00:48:50   that we know we're not going to like but [TS]

00:48:51   anyway it has a more often it's it's [TS]

00:48:54   nice to to be surprised every week about [TS]

00:48:57   what's going to come check it out [TS]

00:48:59   blueprint com / ATP blue apron a better [TS]

00:49:01   way to cook [TS]

00:49:03   alright so it was last week that Apple [TS]

00:49:08   turn 40 if I have my crawled ecology [TS]

00:49:11   right whenever it may have been Apple [TS]

00:49:14   turn 40 and John you had some thoughts [TS]

00:49:16   about this would you like to share [TS]

00:49:18   now we missed it by two weeks i think [TS]

00:49:20   but yeah I have all I think april first [TS]

00:49:22   it was founded because they're just a [TS]

00:49:24   bunch of jokesters those two Steve's and [TS]

00:49:26   a lot of people did applet 40 stories [TS]

00:49:28   talking about their history of apple or [TS]

00:49:30   whatever and it's such a big topic I [TS]

00:49:31   didn't really know how to address it [TS]

00:49:34   especially with you too Maggie come [TS]

00:49:37   lately so whatever you want to call you [TS]

00:49:38   if you came on for later but I'd i think [TS]

00:49:41   it's worth at 40 is a nice round number [TS]

00:49:44   i think it's worth at least reflecting [TS]

00:49:45   on the the first 40 years of apple and [TS]

00:49:48   any kind of sort of like for you when [TS]

00:49:51   you look at it what stands out in your [TS]

00:49:53   memory as important whether you were [TS]

00:49:55   involved an apple or not and have all [TS]

00:49:56   your memories are only from like 2004 on [TS]

00:49:58   that's fine but i figure it's worth [TS]

00:50:00   taking this time to look back and think [TS]

00:50:03   about what you know what what important [TS]

00:50:07   things apples that's kind of like when [TS]

00:50:08   is a great way to put it like when you [TS]

00:50:11   like a celebrity or something dies and [TS]

00:50:12   they have their obituaries like the [TS]

00:50:14   first couple sentences of the obituary [TS]

00:50:15   you know kind of have the highlights and [TS]

00:50:18   so apples not dead and we're not trying [TS]

00:50:20   to write an obituary for but we can look [TS]

00:50:22   back on the first 40 years and say what [TS]

00:50:24   were the most important thing [TS]

00:50:25   that happened there to you personally [TS]

00:50:27   not just like we're not gonna say like [TS]

00:50:28   well you know it's important for the [TS]

00:50:29   history of computing XYZ but to you [TS]

00:50:31   personally what do you think was a what [TS]

00:50:34   weighs heavily on your mind when you [TS]

00:50:36   think of the first 40 years of apple now [TS]

00:50:38   you know my experience with Apple was [TS]

00:50:41   probably very similar to many people my [TS]

00:50:44   age in that I experienced it [TS]

00:50:47   Max and I guess the apple to at school [TS]

00:50:50   and that was it until much later in my [TS]

00:50:54   life and so my earliest memories of [TS]

00:50:56   Apple were playing oregon trail like so [TS]

00:50:59   many kids my age did I also vividly [TS]

00:51:04   remember when i was in i believe middle [TS]

00:51:07   school I was already showing an affinity [TS]

00:51:12   and a love for computers and i ended up [TS]

00:51:18   being like kind of a volunteer like pee [TS]

00:51:21   on for the computer lab administrator [TS]

00:51:25   and they were running some flavor of Mac [TS]

00:51:27   I'm sorry John and Stephen Hackett I [TS]

00:51:29   couldn't tell you what kind of mac it [TS]

00:51:30   was but they were running max and i [TS]

00:51:34   remember vividly like being able to help [TS]

00:51:36   out and i think i have like some [TS]

00:51:38   super-secret like administrative [TS]

00:51:40   password that they trusted with the [TS]

00:51:41   middle schooler for some stupid reason [TS]

00:51:43   and I couldn't really do much with it [TS]

00:51:45   but i thought i was so cool because of [TS]

00:51:47   it and the thing that sticks out in my [TS]

00:51:49   mind even to this day like 20 years [TS]

00:51:51   later is we all had to like buy a floppy [TS]

00:51:56   disk or one of the three and a half inch [TS]

00:51:58   disk so wasn't even floppy but anyway we [TS]

00:52:00   are divided floppy disk and we would [TS]

00:52:02   store all of our you know school [TS]

00:52:05   documents on it because that was more [TS]

00:52:06   than enough room for years with school [TS]

00:52:08   documents and I remember someone had [TS]

00:52:11   shown me or somehow I figured out how to [TS]

00:52:14   set the icon for the disk so when you [TS]

00:52:17   put the disc into the mac in any mac it [TS]

00:52:20   would like it instead of being a regular [TS]

00:52:22   grey icon or whatever it was by default [TS]

00:52:25   mine would be like really bright blue or [TS]

00:52:27   something like that or maybe it was an [TS]

00:52:28   entirely different icon altogether blue [TS]

00:52:30   disc stood yea trained exactly hits [TS]

00:52:33   remember figuring out how to do that and [TS]

00:52:36   oh my [TS]

00:52:38   god I thought I was hot stuff because my [TS]

00:52:41   disk when it was on the desktop look [TS]

00:52:44   different than everyone else's aren't I [TS]

00:52:46   a badass and I just remembered that so [TS]

00:52:49   vividly and I have some other memories [TS]

00:52:52   but but they're more of like modern era [TS]

00:52:54   so Marco let me give you and then John [TS]

00:52:56   as well a chance to kind of cover the [TS]

00:52:58   the the let's call it the pre-2000 era [TS]

00:53:02   right before you move on [TS]

00:53:04   what does your hard disk icon looking [TS]

00:53:06   like right now on your Mac oh it's not [TS]

00:53:08   on my desktop in the one in finders [TS]

00:53:10   whatever the default is what happened [TS]

00:53:13   you were you were there you were blue [TS]

00:53:14   disc stud and it and the same exact you [TS]

00:53:17   could do the same feature has lived on [TS]

00:53:19   through the various versions of the mac [TS]

00:53:21   operating system to today or you can do [TS]

00:53:24   it [TS]

00:53:24   probably an even easier way that you did [TS]

00:53:26   back then depending on how far actually [TS]

00:53:27   was probably the same way because you're [TS]

00:53:29   not that old i think it was about the [TS]

00:53:30   same way was like get info and then you [TS]

00:53:32   just drag competition just copy and [TS]

00:53:34   paste right yeah maybe that's what was [TS]

00:53:36   used to be more difficult they added [TS]

00:53:37   that the copy and paste feature in a [TS]

00:53:39   later version of that conversation [TS]

00:53:40   either way I'm excited that you did that [TS]

00:53:43   like that that's definitely a Mac user [TS]

00:53:45   kind of thing to do like that you want [TS]

00:53:46   your thing to look nice and you can do [TS]

00:53:48   it and as you noted it's not as if well [TS]

00:53:50   I wouldn't say it look nice i'm sure was [TS]

00:53:53   god awful hideous but it was mine and as [TS]

00:53:56   you noted [TS]

00:53:57   it's not as if that was just a change on [TS]

00:53:58   your computer he brought us to any mac [TS]

00:54:00   that they would honor it [TS]

00:54:02   you should be doing that I all of my [TS]

00:54:04   hard drives have been named fancifully [TS]

00:54:07   and have had custom icons do the same [TS]

00:54:10   thing for most of my folders back in the [TS]

00:54:11   day although now that the finder is my [TS]

00:54:13   enemy that doesn't well but this is [TS]

00:54:15   still battle in this way there are many [TS]

00:54:17   like it but this one is mine [TS]

00:54:19   I also rocked the standard disc and it [TS]

00:54:21   also is no desktop haha oh goodness [TS]

00:54:27   alright so Marco what was your like [TS]

00:54:29   let's say up until high school [TS]

00:54:32   experience with the mac it actually [TS]

00:54:35   wasn't the mac it was the Apple to the [TS]

00:54:38   fair enough fair enough [TS]

00:54:39   and this might sound more impressive [TS]

00:54:40   than it was because my first experience [TS]

00:54:43   the Apple to was around nineteen ninety [TS]

00:54:46   maybe it [TS]

00:54:48   it's okay it was you know already what [TS]

00:54:50   12 years old something by then right [TS]

00:54:53   nice so it my experience was I was I [TS]

00:54:56   went to a very poor and not very like [TS]

00:55:00   scientifically advanced elementary [TS]

00:55:02   school so the the computers they had [TS]

00:55:05   they did have computers they had one [TS]

00:55:07   computer lab that had maybe I don't know [TS]

00:55:09   15 computers in it and they were all old [TS]

00:55:12   donated Apple tues by the time i was it [TS]

00:55:14   maybe fifth sixth grade so what is that [TS]

00:55:17   like if I was born 82 when is that like [TS]

00:55:20   91 and you something like that we [TS]

00:55:22   roughly and I just play games on them [TS]

00:55:26   like did you see oregon trail [TS]

00:55:29   I'm not gonna try to say my version of [TS]

00:55:30   how to pronounce that state name i know [TS]

00:55:32   i'm gonna get it wrong also but I is [TS]

00:55:34   pronounced worcester yeah it was the [TS]

00:55:36   trail it's it's either oregon or again [TS]

00:55:39   is the only two ways i've ever heard it [TS]

00:55:41   I'm gonna use either of those anyway so [TS]

00:55:44   God but it's so played that you know [TS]

00:55:47   another you know math lectures and the [TS]

00:55:48   other like you know games that were [TS]

00:55:50   supposed to be educational that weren't [TS]

00:55:51   really and had fun with that in seventh [TS]

00:55:56   grade my friends and I he was a mac nerd [TS]

00:55:59   at the time and he this was in like [TS]

00:56:02   nineteen ninety-five or something he had [TS]

00:56:05   a laptop in class all the time as a [TS]

00:56:08   seventh-grader what's so they were some [TS]

00:56:10   kind of arrangement he had with the [TS]

00:56:12   school with his parents in school that [TS]

00:56:14   he was allowed to have a laptop for a [TS]

00:56:17   learning disability of some kind [TS]

00:56:18   I don't details anyway he had a laptop [TS]

00:56:20   and we would program on on that and I [TS]

00:56:23   kind of learned basic and then there was [TS]

00:56:25   this Apple two in the back of the room [TS]

00:56:26   and you know it is like we just move [TS]

00:56:28   around because it was some kind of [TS]

00:56:30   whatever mac laptop would have been [TS]

00:56:31   somewhat current in 1995 [TS]

00:56:35   it was great i don't know we play on [TS]

00:56:37   that he had real basic on there we play [TS]

00:56:39   a real basic on that and then in the [TS]

00:56:40   back of the room there's ancient Apple [TS]

00:56:41   to that no one else in the class knew [TS]

00:56:44   what to do with except me and him so we [TS]

00:56:47   would deal with stupid things like we [TS]

00:56:48   would like make it right a for loop to [TS]

00:56:50   place and just leave you know it's [TS]

00:56:52   really kind of course like infinite [TS]

00:56:54   loops and you know try to show a little [TS]

00:56:56   graphics on there and stuff and kind of [TS]

00:56:58   mess around and then he really is [TS]

00:57:00   the after that I I kind of didn't use [TS]

00:57:03   Apple computers for a long time because [TS]

00:57:05   i never had one for that whole time and [TS]

00:57:08   it was until after college I got one and [TS]

00:57:10   that whole time Apple computers were [TS]

00:57:12   seen as like kind of a tragedy if you [TS]

00:57:15   had one because it was like oh well you [TS]

00:57:17   know all of us were over here like [TS]

00:57:18   playing are awesome pc games and [TS]

00:57:20   everything and then [TS]

00:57:21   oh that guy oh he he just has he has a [TS]

00:57:24   mac and it was kinda like oh hehe can't [TS]

00:57:27   play any good games and we kind of feel [TS]

00:57:29   bad for him because he has the mac this [TS]

00:57:32   that's him that's remember about [TS]

00:57:33   politics the tragedy if you had one and [TS]

00:57:36   that you played with the Apple to be a [TS]

00:57:38   before before i got my own in in 2004 [TS]

00:57:41   yeah I guess I mean I guess that makes [TS]

00:57:43   more sense than kc story where he saw [TS]

00:57:45   the the max and the cool disk icon and [TS]

00:57:48   yet you didn't really they didn't make [TS]

00:57:50   enough of an impression on you two for [TS]

00:57:53   you to 2% I guess you had your your IBM [TS]

00:57:56   father that was really going to prevent [TS]

00:57:58   you from ever getting into max until yes [TS]

00:58:01   no I'm it wasn't I don't think he ever [TS]

00:58:03   would have necessarily actively [TS]

00:58:05   prevented it but there were always [TS]

00:58:09   thinkpads just hanging out around the [TS]

00:58:11   house and I had a laptop or desktop [TS]

00:58:14   since I can remember [TS]

00:58:16   now granted they were all typically very [TS]

00:58:18   old and out of date but they were mine [TS]

00:58:20   and and I didn't share them with anyone [TS]

00:58:23   and so I grew up on predominantly [TS]

00:58:26   thinkpads and nothing about the mac ever [TS]

00:58:29   really called to me like I respected [TS]

00:58:31   that that little bit of customization I [TS]

00:58:32   thought that was cool i remember vaguely [TS]

00:58:34   trying to like skin windows XP look like [TS]

00:58:37   a Mac from time to time like I would get [TS]

00:58:39   this this kick would get on this kick to [TS]

00:58:42   to try to fake like the Apple menu at [TS]

00:58:45   the top of the screen and in some of the [TS]

00:58:47   icons to make them look like a Mac just [TS]

00:58:48   because I thought it looked good and [TS]

00:58:50   inevitably I will always regret that [TS]

00:58:52   because it just what was a total utter [TS]

00:58:53   hack but no wasn't until far later which [TS]

00:58:58   we can get to when we get to the 2004 to [TS]

00:59:01   the knots that i really started thinking [TS]

00:59:04   about the mac again you to her to people [TS]

00:59:07   i probably would not have been able to [TS]

00:59:09   convince that the mac [TS]

00:59:11   was the amazing thing that that it was [TS]

00:59:14   because you were just note so content [TS]

00:59:17   with your weird worlds bc is now so the [TS]

00:59:19   early early apple for me like I mean I [TS]

00:59:21   did you use Apple tues and stuff like [TS]

00:59:23   that Apple tues or not that exciting for [TS]

00:59:25   me they didn't seem I mean having call [TS]

00:59:28   upon my Commodores and stuff like that [TS]

00:59:30   the Apple to seem like a natural [TS]

00:59:31   progression there and it was fine but [TS]

00:59:34   did not make much of an impression [TS]

00:59:35   especially probably because most of the [TS]

00:59:38   Apple tues we had at school or like [TS]

00:59:40   monochrome display it just you know [TS]

00:59:43   character mode programs maybe a couple [TS]

00:59:48   of games you could even call them that [TS]

00:59:49   eventually there was like 2 GS and stuff [TS]

00:59:52   about on TGS was in play in the school's [TS]

00:59:54   I the mac already company so that that [TS]

00:59:56   the big thing about the mac for me that [TS]

00:59:58   people who missed this air [TS]

00:59:58   people who missed this air [TS]

01:00:00   I don't understand is that it was the [TS]

01:00:03   computer that made the statement that [TS]

01:00:05   with graphical interface GUI was the way [TS]

01:00:10   that we should use computers it wasn't [TS]

01:00:12   the first gooey but it was so far and [TS]

01:00:15   away the best one ever sold in a [TS]

01:00:17   computer that regular people could buy [TS]

01:00:19   or oversold anyone really and it's big [TS]

01:00:23   statement was hey guys stop typing a [TS]

01:00:26   command prompts do this instead and the [TS]

01:00:29   entirety of the computer world said no I [TS]

01:00:33   don't we don't want that [TS]

01:00:35   that's not a real computer that's stupid [TS]

01:00:38   it you can't do anything with it it [TS]

01:00:40   looks ugly it's pointless [TS]

01:00:42   you need to have a command prompt I [TS]

01:00:44   don't know what the hell you're doing [TS]

01:00:45   over there apple and even though this [TS]

01:00:48   was a short period of time historically [TS]

01:00:50   speaking for the transition for the [TS]

01:00:52   whole world to figure it out when we [TS]

01:00:54   were in the middle of it it seemed like [TS]

01:00:57   the Battle of the century with the [TS]

01:00:59   people on the good light side the mac [TS]

01:01:03   users not one being able to understand [TS]

01:01:05   how anyone could argue against this is [TS]

01:01:07   it wasn't as if they were arguing [TS]

01:01:09   windows is better or some other GU is [TS]

01:01:12   better their argument was the GUI is [TS]

01:01:14   dumb that you should not use a GUI is a [TS]

01:01:17   waste of computing resources and makes [TS]

01:01:19   the computer less powerful it will never [TS]

01:01:22   catch on [TS]

01:01:23   it is a pointless diversion it's a bad [TS]

01:01:25   and you should feel bad about using that [TS]

01:01:28   computer and stop distracting me and you [TS]

01:01:31   have to get your own magazines and I'm [TS]

01:01:33   never gonna hook up Mouse to my computer [TS]

01:01:34   and all that other stuff and to grow up [TS]

01:01:39   in that environment kind of like if you [TS]

01:01:40   grew up in the sort of the the second [TS]

01:01:42   antenna console wars was just such a [TS]

01:01:44   huge dividing line and this in the same [TS]

01:01:46   way that I imagine for people who are [TS]

01:01:48   not computer and sports teams might be [TS]

01:01:50   dividing line if you grew up in like [TS]

01:01:51   mets vs yankees or whatever year your [TS]

01:01:53   sports rivalry is is just imprinted in [TS]

01:01:58   your DNA as a super important thing and [TS]

01:02:00   eventually a transition to okay fine so [TS]

01:02:03   GU is a reasonable idea but now windows [TS]

01:02:05   is better than the mac or whatever and [TS]

01:02:08   that became you know the mac vs pc thing [TS]

01:02:10   which was another form of tragedy [TS]

01:02:12   my original abiding memory of the mac is [TS]

01:02:15   essentially trying to convince other [TS]

01:02:17   computer nerdy people kids and adults [TS]

01:02:19   the GUI itself was a good idea and the [TS]

01:02:23   end that you know just try convincing [TS]

01:02:25   something like I need you know what has [TS]

01:02:26   that argument anymore because no one [TS]

01:02:27   ever are using it because it seems [TS]

01:02:29   ridiculous i thought it was ridiculous [TS]

01:02:31   than two and yet people had arguments [TS]

01:02:32   and you could not convince them because [TS]

01:02:35   all they knew was the command line and [TS]

01:02:37   they had what they thought were really [TS]

01:02:40   solid arguments about like how much more [TS]

01:02:42   efficient is to memorize the commands [TS]

01:02:44   inward star than it is to like bring [TS]

01:02:45   your mouth up to menu was like you you [TS]

01:02:47   know you're not getting its not on a [TS]

01:02:48   micro-level thing a macro level thing is [TS]

01:02:50   and this helps people use computers like [TS]

01:02:53   the idea that every computer was going [TS]

01:02:55   to work this way inevitably there's [TS]

01:02:56   nothing you could do about it and they [TS]

01:02:58   were like every computer are you kidding [TS]

01:02:59   me [TS]

01:03:00   so that is my sort of my core memory in [TS]

01:03:04   the d inside-out parlance of the [TS]

01:03:08   earliest core memory [TS]

01:03:09   I'm Apple was going and I would say to [TS]

01:03:12   this day the sort of cohesive pneus of [TS]

01:03:17   the original Matt GUI the only thing it [TS]

01:03:20   has been matched by I think are probably [TS]

01:03:22   appliance like devices and iOS because [TS]

01:03:25   there's never been another personal [TS]

01:03:27   computer operating systems including Mac [TS]

01:03:28   os10 that has so fully committed to the [TS]

01:03:34   graphical user interface to providing [TS]

01:03:36   sort of a coherent consistent world of [TS]

01:03:40   the computer in which it wasn't an [TS]

01:03:43   abstraction or a shell on top of [TS]

01:03:45   something that as far as the user is [TS]

01:03:47   concerned there was nothing underneath [TS]

01:03:48   there was no way to get underneath there [TS]

01:03:51   was no terminal there was no there was [TS]

01:03:53   no command line there was no there were [TS]

01:03:56   no filesystem paths visible anywhere in [TS]

01:03:59   the user interface you know it if you [TS]

01:04:02   asked a Mac user what the path separator [TS]

01:04:04   was on their operating system personally [TS]

01:04:07   don't pass separator as if you were [TS]

01:04:08   explaining to them they would have no [TS]

01:04:10   idea that the colon is used internally [TS]

01:04:11   because you just never ever sought same [TS]

01:04:14   thing with the files and folders and [TS]

01:04:16   icons the idea that files and folders [TS]

01:04:18   represented you know this little picture [TS]

01:04:19   represents your file and this little [TS]

01:04:21   picture represents a directory none of [TS]

01:04:22   those things represented anything they [TS]

01:04:24   were the thing [TS]

01:04:25   there was no in direction it was just so [TS]

01:04:27   so incredibly consistent in the same way [TS]

01:04:30   that if you were to ask someone like [TS]

01:04:31   where is the you know the instagram app [TS]

01:04:34   like oh this little icon represents the [TS]

01:04:36   Instagram no they did not that is the [TS]

01:04:37   Instagram when I delete that incident [TS]

01:04:39   has gone and what is their the insert I [TS]

01:04:41   have the answer map like that is so [TS]

01:04:44   solid and there's no command line and on [TS]

01:04:46   iOS and there is no way you can see file [TS]

01:04:48   path on iOS start exposing I guess [TS]

01:04:51   you're else kind of came and screwed up [TS]

01:04:53   for everybody but anyway that was a [TS]

01:04:57   there was an important part point in [TS]

01:04:59   computing history and that was the most [TS]

01:05:00   important point in my computing history [TS]

01:05:03   as relates to apple or any other company [TS]

01:05:05   has just said that you guys missed it i [TS]

01:05:08   guess by my journey and computers began [TS]

01:05:11   with trying to get stuff to work in das [TS]

01:05:15   and and i believe was pc Darcy was IBM's [TS]

01:05:19   version of us even when ms-dos was a [TS]

01:05:21   thing and and I was annoying my dad [TS]

01:05:24   constantly asking you know how do i do [TS]

01:05:26   this how do i do that i do this happen [TS]

01:05:27   that he just got exasperated and said [TS]

01:05:29   I'll just read the manual and even [TS]

01:05:31   though I was like eight years old he [TS]

01:05:31   said it kind of sarcastically interest [TS]

01:05:34   in and i took him at his word and I read [TS]

01:05:37   the manual and so I I remember trying [TS]

01:05:39   windows 31 and just thinking this is a [TS]

01:05:41   piece of crap and I don't know why [TS]

01:05:42   anyone would use this it's terrible i [TS]

01:05:44   want to go back to toss and then when [TS]

01:05:46   windows 95 came around it was like oh [TS]

01:05:48   yeah this thing all those mac users were [TS]

01:05:50   all excited about now I get it now this [TS]

01:05:52   ain't so bad and look we have a recycle [TS]

01:05:54   bin sort of the trash because we're [TS]

01:05:55   better than they are but it was until [TS]

01:05:59   windows 95 that I really understood what [TS]

01:06:00   the point of it well that's not entirely [TS]

01:06:02   true obviously I was nervous to warp [TS]

01:06:04   user for a while and then I understood [TS]

01:06:06   the gooey but but anyway it wasn't [TS]

01:06:09   really much of a thing as early as it [TS]

01:06:11   was for Mac users and I never really got [TS]

01:06:13   that involved in the debate because I [TS]

01:06:16   don't really know any mac users at the [TS]

01:06:17   time [TS]

01:06:18   any other thoughts on the pre to [TS]

01:06:20   thousands and then let's cover the 2004 [TS]

01:06:23   going to write from this is a pre-2000 [TS]

01:06:26   like this something like almost of my [TS]

01:06:27   Apple histories and provides giving my [TS]

01:06:29   earliest ones you get referrals runs it [TS]

01:06:31   always gonna be home and there's just so [TS]

01:06:33   much stuff before the 2,000 that's like [TS]

01:06:36   a lot of Russia old man no no shit no I [TS]

01:06:40   like I'm really even though you guys [TS]

01:06:42   turns into let me reminisce about my [TS]

01:06:44   earliest memory of apples I was trying [TS]

01:06:45   to think of like why when I think back [TS]

01:06:47   on Apple like the sort of milestones and [TS]

01:06:50   so that the the mac gooby the mac itself [TS]

01:06:53   that computer that gooey that is the [TS]

01:06:54   first big gigantic tentpole when I think [TS]

01:06:57   back of the first 40 years and apple [TS]

01:06:58   such an important thing and then [TS]

01:07:00   probably people feel like I'm giving the [TS]

01:07:02   Apple to short-shrift because that's so [TS]

01:07:04   important in the history of apples the [TS]

01:07:05   company but i'm not going with like what [TS]

01:07:07   was important to the company where I'm [TS]

01:07:08   going like when I look back on the first [TS]

01:07:10   40 years of Apple the first big ten [TS]

01:07:12   policy is that mac and I feel like that [TS]

01:07:13   that tent pole there's a through line [TS]

01:07:17   from that tent pole all the way through [TS]

01:07:19   to the iphone whereas i don't think [TS]

01:07:21   there's a very solid through line from [TS]

01:07:23   the Apple to with expansion cards and a [TS]

01:07:25   command line and all and you know and [TS]

01:07:27   really like there's very little about [TS]

01:07:30   the Apple to like the Apple to Steve [TS]

01:07:32   Wozniak's machine the mac was jobs as [TS]

01:07:34   machine right and jobs is the through [TS]

01:07:37   line through the all history of apple [TS]

01:07:40   and four for better for worse the Apple [TS]

01:07:42   to was kind of an aberration in the [TS]

01:07:45   entire line and then that it was like [TS]

01:07:46   the company didn't become Steve [TS]

01:07:49   Wozniak's company it became Steve Jobs [TS]

01:07:51   company you know he left he came back he [TS]

01:07:53   brought it back in line or you know but [TS]

01:07:55   like even he was gone the people who [TS]

01:07:57   were there in his stead making computers [TS]

01:08:00   they were much more jobs like then was [TS]

01:08:03   like a launcher jobs on the unsatisfying [TS]

01:08:05   as well so that's the first big ten [TS]

01:08:08   policy and then you could say and then [TS]

01:08:11   fast forward and it's just like ipod [TS]

01:08:13   iphone right i don't i don't really see [TS]

01:08:15   that I see a lot of significant [TS]

01:08:17   advancements in the middle there sort of [TS]

01:08:18   like that the heart of the the snow [TS]

01:08:21   white design error of max where they [TS]

01:08:23   were all kind of platinum colored i [TS]

01:08:26   guess and had slats in them and add a [TS]

01:08:29   little rainbow logo on them and no one [TS]

01:08:32   else was paying attention to them and [TS]

01:08:33   Marco feel bad for anyone who had one [TS]

01:08:36   but he shouldn't have felt bad because [TS]

01:08:38   there were some amazing computers that [TS]

01:08:40   none of his friends were going to have [TS]

01:08:41   because they were like ten thousand [TS]

01:08:42   dollars and then the eighties like here [TS]

01:08:44   1989 actual $10,000 for a computer like [TS]

01:08:48   nobody like regular people did not have [TS]

01:08:51   these computers which is part of the [TS]

01:08:52   reasons i lost the deaf and like they [TS]

01:08:53   even look like Ferraris with the side [TS]

01:08:55   slats on everything like you don't know [TS]

01:08:57   anyone sorry just look at pictures of my [TS]

01:08:59   magazines i was like them but the mac to [TS]

01:09:00   FX was like to me actually never gonna [TS]

01:09:02   meet anyone who was actually even touch [TS]

01:09:04   one of these computers but I know it's [TS]

01:09:05   out there an existing boys that amazing [TS]

01:09:07   and I would kill to have that computer [TS]

01:09:09   but it cost him maybe wasn't 10,000 it [TS]

01:09:11   was like eight thousand dollars in [TS]

01:09:12   1988-89 might as well been 10,000 was no [TS]

01:09:16   help was ever gonna get one and there [TS]

01:09:20   was no equipment for that to me and in [TS]

01:09:23   any other line of computers forget about [TS]

01:09:25   the GUI and everything like that like [TS]

01:09:26   that this was like a Ferrari in that it [TS]

01:09:30   wasn't like a muscle car which you could [TS]

01:09:31   say all I could I could buy a beat-up pc [TS]

01:09:33   and built myself and a bold you know I [TS]

01:09:35   have better specs in my mac to FX if [TS]

01:09:37   you're lucky right that might have been [TS]

01:09:39   possible but it's not a Ferrari you [TS]

01:09:41   can't build a Ferrari yourself in your [TS]

01:09:42   garage out of spare parts you can't buy [TS]

01:09:45   like a stock mustang and replace the [TS]

01:09:47   engine and do custom suspension I got my [TS]

01:09:48   own for are you do not you do not have [TS]

01:09:50   your own ferrari the high-end max or [TS]

01:09:54   like Ferraris and that they were [TS]

01:09:55   technical Marvel's they were [TS]

01:09:57   ridiculously expensive and they were [TS]

01:09:59   beautifully designed and like they were [TS]

01:10:01   products right you know that the whole [TS]

01:10:04   thing that we love about our products [TS]

01:10:06   today that was there was something they [TS]

01:10:08   had back then as well they had became a [TS]

01:10:09   beautiful manuals their accessories [TS]

01:10:11   their keyboards and mice the monitors [TS]

01:10:13   they came with you know that trend tron [TS]

01:10:15   displays when no one else was bothering [TS]

01:10:17   with those things and make the case was [TS]

01:10:18   beautifully matched to the computer and [TS]

01:10:21   the power cords and just like everything [TS]

01:10:23   about them they're just they're just [TS]

01:10:25   magical [TS]

01:10:26   I do have two effects now by the way [TS]

01:10:27   home I got 135 dollars so depreciation [TS]

01:10:31   sports stuff but uh I just imagine you [TS]

01:10:34   don't quite have my Ferrari yet but [TS]

01:10:36   maybe someday well but I guess that's [TS]

01:10:38   like the second tent pole is that the [TS]

01:10:40   whole error max when everybody else [TS]

01:10:42   thought max sucks because the operating [TS]

01:10:44   system was still great windows had not [TS]

01:10:46   caught up because they never really [TS]

01:10:47   understood [TS]

01:10:47   what was truly magical about the mac [TS]

01:10:49   like the fact that there were no file [TS]

01:10:50   past that there was no command line [TS]

01:10:52   there was no any files and bat files and [TS]

01:10:56   I are cues and anything like that or [TS]

01:10:59   drivers or any of that crap you had your [TS]

01:11:01   own series of hacks though but they're [TS]

01:11:03   all of them involve the abstraction grip [TS]

01:11:05   we would drag things in and out of the [TS]

01:11:07   system folder like physically you know [TS]

01:11:09   pull this analysis and folder put into [TS]

01:11:10   the system folder put in control panels [TS]

01:11:12   folder put in the control panel to sable [TS]

01:11:13   folder but take it out of the extensions [TS]

01:11:15   folder and reboot like it was all done [TS]

01:11:17   on top of that X abstraction like there [TS]

01:11:19   was no there is no command line like [TS]

01:11:21   there was there was no underneath like [TS]

01:11:23   you know obviously you can get at the [TS]

01:11:25   debugger and start pokin memory [TS]

01:11:26   addresses and stuff but the abstraction [TS]

01:11:29   was so total eventually the detriment of [TS]

01:11:31   the mac obviously i could I love Mac [TS]

01:11:32   os10 like a lot of unix right but it was [TS]

01:11:36   just such a different a different age or [TS]

01:11:39   computer engage eyes I think he needs to [TS]

01:11:41   come back eventually and has sort of [TS]

01:11:43   come back in iOS iOS takes away all that [TS]

01:11:45   stuff from the users perspective it's [TS]

01:11:47   still there under the cover is much more [TS]

01:11:48   visible even from the developer's [TS]

01:11:50   perspective than it was in the mac but [TS]

01:11:51   from the users perspective iOS has [TS]

01:11:54   continued to remove so I i truly feel [TS]

01:11:56   like iOS is the natural successor to the [TS]

01:11:58   original mac operating system much more [TS]

01:12:00   so than mac OS tennis despite the fact [TS]

01:12:02   that of course being a modern except i [TS]

01:12:04   love my question last concert tonight is [TS]

01:12:09   betterment betterment is the largest [TS]

01:12:11   independent automated investing service [TS]

01:12:13   out there go to betterment calm / ATP it [TS]

01:12:16   is never too late to start saving for [TS]

01:12:18   retirement or to meet your other [TS]

01:12:20   financial goals financial services [TS]

01:12:22   industry has embraced technology with [TS]

01:12:23   the entry of automated investing [TS]

01:12:25   services like betterment and they're the [TS]

01:12:27   largest you probably hearing a lot about [TS]

01:12:28   betterment in TechCrunch Wall Street [TS]

01:12:30   Journal other big news outlets better it [TS]

01:12:32   makes it easier more straightforward and [TS]

01:12:34   less expensive to invest betterment [TS]

01:12:36   built on smarter cutting-edge technology [TS]

01:12:38   to bring the sophisticated investing and [TS]

01:12:40   financial advice on a lower cost than [TS]

01:12:42   more traditional financial services and [TS]

01:12:44   i can personally vouch for that that the [TS]

01:12:46   fees they offer that are so much lower [TS]

01:12:49   order of magnitude lower than most the [TS]

01:12:52   fees that I've seen my personal [TS]

01:12:54   investing experience before this you [TS]

01:12:56   really cannot beat these fees there's [TS]

01:12:58   their solo and that that really adds up [TS]

01:13:00   over time [TS]

01:13:01   now more than a hundred fifty thousand [TS]

01:13:03   customers choose betterment advanced [TS]

01:13:05   advice algorithms and beautiful user [TS]

01:13:06   interface to manage over four billion of [TS]

01:13:09   their dollars [TS]

01:13:10   this is the perfect time to get started [TS]

01:13:11   with betterment and saving for your [TS]

01:13:12   retirement or other financial goals [TS]

01:13:14   because eighty listeners can get up to [TS]

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01:13:20   mint.com / ATP that's better mint.com / [TS]

01:13:24   ATP betterment investing made better [TS]

01:13:28   alright so i will start with my next [TS]

01:13:32   memory and that I don't remember where [TS]

01:13:34   this isn't the chronology so if i'm [TS]

01:13:36   skipping to the end of the 2,000 by I [TS]

01:13:39   don't think I am but I know actually do [TS]

01:13:42   remember it was roughly 2,500 had heard [TS]

01:13:48   about our ipods i had seen them i had [TS]

01:13:53   perhaps used one from time to time and i [TS]

01:13:57   never really was that into them [TS]

01:13:59   I'm diamond rio way back when I think [TS]

01:14:01   before an ipod was a thing but then the [TS]

01:14:04   ipod nano came out and holy crap that I [TS]

01:14:09   want one something awful and I [TS]

01:14:11   eventually got 1i think aaron got it for [TS]

01:14:13   me I'm this was right after we started [TS]

01:14:15   dating but I got it I eventually got an [TS]

01:14:18   ipad ipod nano which i still have or I [TS]

01:14:21   think that's what was whatever the one [TS]

01:14:23   was that had the screen and click wheel [TS]

01:14:25   but it was super super thin and I just [TS]

01:14:29   wanted one so hard and that was the [TS]

01:14:31   first time i was really interested in an [TS]

01:14:35   apple product that i can remember and [TS]

01:14:38   that was I think the beginning of the [TS]

01:14:41   end for me when it came for the [TS]

01:14:43   beginning the beginning actually I [TS]

01:14:44   should say when it came to apple stuff [TS]

01:14:46   was looking at ipod nano and just [TS]

01:14:48   thinking holy crap i must have that yeah [TS]

01:14:53   that mean that was denied having a lot [TS]

01:14:55   of people in apple honestly I mean you [TS]

01:14:57   know the ipod it as a whole [TS]

01:14:59   obviously a lot of people in but that [TS]

01:15:00   first that first nano and the situation [TS]

01:15:03   ally think really played a large part in [TS]

01:15:06   it because it was so compelling that the [TS]

01:15:08   the full-size ipods were always a lot [TS]

01:15:11   more expensive and you know they they [TS]

01:15:14   weren't they were [TS]

01:15:15   amazing for the for the time but I just [TS]

01:15:17   feel like that than the mini first and [TS]

01:15:19   the nano just took it to another level [TS]

01:15:22   yeah i agree the magic of flash storage [TS]

01:15:24   so everything that was not the flash was [TS]

01:15:26   not other people's radar but I review or [TS]

01:15:28   an apple fan at that time as well like [TS]

01:15:30   the progression from that you know the [TS]

01:15:33   whole ipod line was made possible that [TS]

01:15:35   tiny little whatever it was like [TS]

01:15:37   inch-and-a-quarter one inch or whatever [TS]

01:15:39   was this tiny little hard drives which [TS]

01:15:41   are such a ridiculous hacks like doll [TS]

01:15:43   furniture for your computer and you know [TS]

01:15:44   a little but it works it's a real [TS]

01:15:46   working hard drive right jumping from [TS]

01:15:48   that to no moving parts and much smaller [TS]

01:15:52   made a shocking you know that the Steve [TS]

01:15:54   Jobs same Center already had in that [TS]

01:15:56   little and like the little change pocket [TS]

01:15:58   and your nose with that pocket does he [TS]

01:16:00   pulled out of that pocket and it was it [TS]

01:16:02   was such a leap and especially for [TS]

01:16:04   something that involves miniaturization [TS]

01:16:05   it's so weird to have a popular product [TS]

01:16:08   line that that really hinges on [TS]

01:16:11   miniaturization to have become popular [TS]

01:16:13   before flash memory was ubiquitous which [TS]

01:16:16   allowed that big jump because you would [TS]

01:16:18   think it would be impossible to even [TS]

01:16:19   popularizing music player whether all [TS]

01:16:21   the size of a deck of cards that guard [TS]

01:16:22   isn't big but again it's kind of [TS]

01:16:24   ridiculous when you think about it and [TS]

01:16:26   so unlike cell phones and so many other [TS]

01:16:28   things are smart phones anyway that it [TS]

01:16:31   were born in the era of flash storage [TS]

01:16:33   we're never gonna get another another [TS]

01:16:34   leap like that until we get to some you [TS]

01:16:36   know whatever the next technological [TS]

01:16:37   breakthrough is that allows I cannot [TS]

01:16:40   imagine again if you if within one phone [TS]

01:16:42   generation it had the same drop in [TS]

01:16:45   volume as from the mean to the nano we [TS]

01:16:47   would our drawers would be on the floor [TS]

01:16:49   like it would almost be the credit card [TS]

01:16:51   i phone you know what I mean it would go [TS]

01:16:52   like well we haven't just made it like [TS]

01:16:54   half is thin and half is narrow but like [TS]

01:16:57   it would you know so much to do the math [TS]

01:16:59   on what the volume difference but was [TS]

01:17:01   between the mini and the nano but it was [TS]

01:17:03   just viscerally when you hold in your [TS]

01:17:05   hand it was just shocking like how could [TS]

01:17:06   this be possible this is a magic candy [TS]

01:17:08   bar the gym does everything that the [TS]

01:17:10   many did but it's so much smaller and [TS]

01:17:12   looks like the future and scratches like [TS]

01:17:14   crazy because the plastic is really soft [TS]

01:17:16   loops but anyway effects that minor [TS]

01:17:19   detail [TS]

01:17:19   minor details no i mean so I got into [TS]

01:17:22   apple stuff really in in the 2,000 in [TS]

01:17:26   the in nearly 2,000 because i was [TS]

01:17:28   leaving [TS]

01:17:28   college and he doesn't for and I was [TS]

01:17:31   about to start a new job and i was i was [TS]

01:17:34   ready for a new computer and was ready [TS]

01:17:36   for my first laptop and it's high time [TS]

01:17:39   you looking on the pc laptop area I i [TS]

01:17:41   always like ventured into like the Apple [TS]

01:17:43   room at microcenter here and there to [TS]

01:17:46   guess I kind of look around like as os10 [TS]

01:17:48   kinda got off the ground and started [TS]

01:17:50   because started getting a little bit of [TS]

01:17:51   attention and started you know getting [TS]

01:17:53   good in in the early two thousands I i [TS]

01:17:55   was i wouldn't even look in there and I [TS]

01:17:58   just kept thinking like man os10 looks [TS]

01:18:00   really nice and these apple laptops are [TS]

01:18:03   really nice this is the area of the [TS]

01:18:05   powerbook g4 and so I i was seeing these [TS]

01:18:10   apple laptops looks so good [TS]

01:18:12   the same house in the market for a [TS]

01:18:13   laptop the pc laptops at the time were [TS]

01:18:15   just no not doing anything for me and I [TS]

01:18:18   wanted something really good because I [TS]

01:18:19   was curious about this platform as you [TS]

01:18:20   know what this this seems like the right [TS]

01:18:22   time i think im gonna try because i [TS]

01:18:24   really just want that you know that the [TS]

01:18:26   basic 15 inch powerbook g4 that the [TS]

01:18:30   current macbook pro doesn't still look [TS]

01:18:33   that different from I just wanted that [TS]

01:18:37   so badly and and so I I once I finished [TS]

01:18:41   college I scrape together the graduation [TS]

01:18:43   money I gotten from here and there and [TS]

01:18:44   various savings here and there and spent [TS]

01:18:48   something like twenty four hundred [TS]

01:18:49   dollars on powerbook g4 1544 at first i [TS]

01:18:54   was using it like I got into it slowly [TS]

01:18:57   i-i-i-ice forgetting i clearly figure [TS]

01:18:59   how this works [TS]

01:19:00   transfer over some some of the things i [TS]

01:19:02   do on to this and then over the next I [TS]

01:19:06   don't know year or two around two [TS]

01:19:08   thousand five or so over the next year [TS]

01:19:10   too i just stopped wanting to use my [TS]

01:19:13   windows pcs it because os10 was just so [TS]

01:19:18   much better in so many ways and most was [TS]

01:19:21   when I think it still is better just [TS]

01:19:23   think this design considerations the way [TS]

01:19:25   things worth technical advancements of [TS]

01:19:27   things the respect it shows for users [TS]

01:19:29   and their time and their attention [TS]

01:19:31   I just the overall quality of of good [TS]

01:19:33   third-party software on the platform it [TS]

01:19:35   it was just so much better than windows [TS]

01:19:38   and in my opinion again still is [TS]

01:19:41   it got to the point where i was when i [TS]

01:19:43   was at work one day I i worked at a [TS]

01:19:45   company that was developing a search web [TS]

01:19:48   apps like search-based enterprise web [TS]

01:19:50   apps so all i had to do was write code [TS]

01:19:53   in C it didn't really matter what [TS]

01:19:56   platform i used to write that code and I [TS]

01:19:57   needed I needed a terminal window that [TS]

01:20:00   can run VI and then excuse me determine [TS]

01:20:04   whether they can run like a run them on [TS]

01:20:05   linux servers that we were logging into [TS]

01:20:06   development on and web browser and an [TS]

01:20:09   email client that's all i needed so all [TS]

01:20:11   those things I got the mac in fact [TS]

01:20:12   terminal it's actually easier on the mac [TS]

01:20:14   i was using stupid cygwin that work in [TS]

01:20:15   that sucks oh yeah exactly so one day at [TS]

01:20:20   work it was when windows XP service pack [TS]

01:20:22   2 came out this is somewhere around two [TS]

01:20:25   dozen five members very specifically [TS]

01:20:27   service pack 2 introduced a feature if [TS]

01:20:31   there was an update to be installed from [TS]

01:20:33   windows update which there always was it [TS]

01:20:35   would show boxes saying hey this is [TS]

01:20:37   ready to go you want to reboot now or [TS]

01:20:39   later [TS]

01:20:39   and if you didn't click reboot later [TS]

01:20:42   after a certain amount of time maybe a [TS]

01:20:44   couple hours or whatever it was just [TS]

01:20:46   reboot for you and it would force close [TS]

01:20:48   everything all windows you had open it [TS]

01:20:50   would just force close the mall and [TS]

01:20:51   forcefully reboot the computer if you [TS]

01:20:53   didn't respond this box in a certain [TS]

01:20:54   number of hours so one day I had a ton [TS]

01:20:57   of terminal windows open [TS]

01:20:59   tons of stuff open my computer and I [TS]

01:21:02   went home for the night it was my work [TS]

01:21:03   computer and I came back came back the [TS]

01:21:06   next morning and it's unfortunately [TS]

01:21:07   rebooted the computer and I was so mad [TS]

01:21:10   that I just unplug the monitor plugged [TS]

01:21:14   into my mac that I was being with me [TS]

01:21:16   everyday anyway like when I to stuff it [TS]

01:21:18   into my mac keyboard and mouse plug them [TS]

01:21:21   into my mac and just turned off my work [TS]

01:21:23   computer and just never use that windows [TS]

01:21:25   where computer again after a small [TS]

01:21:29   amount of time i did the same thing at [TS]

01:21:31   home I had this gaming pc ableton home [TS]

01:21:33   basically only to play half-life two [TS]

01:21:35   ahead [TS]

01:21:37   I eventually just stop wanting to use [TS]

01:21:39   that for anything too and so I i just [TS]

01:21:42   started using my Mac full time because I [TS]

01:21:44   just I didn't want to use windows [TS]

01:21:46   anymore it had annoyed me for so many [TS]

01:21:49   years with mediocrity [TS]

01:21:51   you know I i had some good times on [TS]

01:21:53   Windows but those times were over [TS]

01:21:54   and it was very very clear from you know [TS]

01:21:57   2005 ish forward those times were [TS]

01:21:59   completely over you know I had a very [TS]

01:22:01   similar journey into the max so after i [TS]

01:22:05   think it was in school maybe or shortly [TS]

01:22:07   after I graduated I started running [TS]

01:22:10   ubuntu on my thinkpad and that was what [TS]

01:22:13   i was using full time at home i was on [TS]

01:22:15   windows at work and a bunch of home and [TS]

01:22:17   it was working pretty well for the most [TS]

01:22:19   part this was fairly early in bunches [TS]

01:22:21   history and I was doing a distro upgrade [TS]

01:22:24   from like God gutsy given to hardy heron [TS]

01:22:27   or something like that I forget exactly [TS]

01:22:28   what it was but I was doing upgrade and [TS]

01:22:31   i think was like x windows just [TS]

01:22:32   completely crapped the bed and I [TS]

01:22:35   couldn't get my thinkpad to work anymore [TS]

01:22:38   without like reinstalling everything and [TS]

01:22:40   I didn't want to go back to windows [TS]

01:22:42   because i'd left windows on purpose and [TS]

01:22:44   even though you know linux on the [TS]

01:22:48   desktop was and remains a disaster it [TS]

01:22:50   was less with disaster windows but now [TS]

01:22:53   in a similar way to what you would [TS]

01:22:54   experience on Windows Marco were just [TS]

01:22:56   kind of reboot it on you and didn't tell [TS]

01:22:57   you or didn't give you the chance not to [TS]

01:22:59   well i tried to do this upgrade it just [TS]

01:23:01   failed miserably and meanwhile i had you [TS]

01:23:05   among others Marco whispering in my ear [TS]

01:23:07   figuratively speaking you should get a [TS]

01:23:09   mac you should get a mac you should get [TS]

01:23:10   a mac you should get a mac and I vividly [TS]

01:23:13   remember it was the WTC keynote i [TS]

01:23:17   believe was 2008 i'm almost sure that I [TS]

01:23:20   was wdc 2008 I listen to it or fail to [TS]

01:23:23   follow along i guess to make sure they [TS]

01:23:25   didn't introduce new macs and then that [TS]

01:23:28   evening I went to the apple store and [TS]

01:23:30   bought myself my first mac which was a [TS]

01:23:32   polycarbonate macbook or poly book as i [TS]

01:23:35   like to call it and that was in 2008 and [TS]

01:23:38   I haven't bought a pc sense and you [TS]

01:23:41   started an intel yeah yeah it that this [TS]

01:23:44   is the same way that John can't stand [TS]

01:23:45   how late i started I i look at your [TS]

01:23:49   start that way even though the [TS]

01:23:50   difference between John started when i [TS]

01:23:52   started was like 20 years and between [TS]

01:23:53   when i started when you start was like [TS]

01:23:55   two years [TS]

01:23:55   yeah yeah that really is accurate but it [TS]

01:23:57   i can understand why you would feel like [TS]

01:23:59   it was a lifetime difference i mean i [TS]

01:24:00   think i was on leopard i think i was [TS]

01:24:05   after tiger when i bought a machine [TS]

01:24:07   am i started on whatever 10-3 was called [TS]

01:24:09   I can't forget i keep forgetting that [TS]

01:24:11   you guys never read any of my OS 10 [TS]

01:24:13   reviews like in real time as they're [TS]

01:24:14   released like it only if you would ever [TS]

01:24:16   look at that would only be like looking [TS]

01:24:17   backwards what you said about about [TS]

01:24:20   windows like kind of feeling wronged [TS]

01:24:22   feel like I think what crystallized it [TS]

01:24:24   for me was the overall feeling from [TS]

01:24:28   using windows at the time I don't know [TS]

01:24:30   the last version of windows i used [TS]

01:24:32   extensively was windows XP so I which [TS]

01:24:36   grants many people are still using that [TS]

01:24:38   but I don't know how it's been since [TS]

01:24:40   then in anything more than just [TS]

01:24:42   occasional users here and there but the [TS]

01:24:45   impression I got from one up to that [TS]

01:24:46   point was just that this was microsoft [TS]

01:24:50   computer and I was along for the ride [TS]

01:24:51   like the computer would just like you [TS]

01:24:55   know if the winners like hey you know [TS]

01:24:57   what we're gonna reboot now [TS]

01:24:58   ok i just go and wait wait i was doing [TS]

01:25:00   something know we're gonna reboot now [TS]

01:25:01   sorry and you back up and it's like hey [TS]

01:25:03   you want to take a tour [TS]

01:25:05   no I want to do my work like it's it [TS]

01:25:07   just always felt like Windows treats the [TS]

01:25:10   computer like it's theirs and that [TS]

01:25:12   they're pretty they're putting on a [TS]

01:25:13   little show for you and I gonna do what [TS]

01:25:15   they're gonna do it without regard to [TS]

01:25:17   any respect for you and what you're [TS]

01:25:19   doing in the working to do whereas max [TS]

01:25:22   and they still have this advantage a [TS]

01:25:24   little not as much but they still do [TS]

01:25:25   whole disadvantage the mac respected you [TS]

01:25:28   as the user things out of your way [TS]

01:25:31   they're like things like for instance on [TS]

01:25:33   Windows it was a common occurrence for [TS]

01:25:35   some background application to put up a [TS]

01:25:39   box that would steal the focus from the [TS]

01:25:41   former from the first application and so [TS]

01:25:43   you be just typing on all of a sudden [TS]

01:25:45   you get a different app like wait what [TS]

01:25:46   the hell happened and it was some things [TS]

01:25:48   showed a system model box and took over [TS]

01:25:50   the focus and imax that wasn't possible [TS]

01:25:53   but it happened oh just way less often [TS]

01:25:56   and just in general [TS]

01:25:58   max give you the the the impression and [TS]

01:26:00   the design that really left you in [TS]

01:26:03   control of your computer and respected [TS]

01:26:06   your time and your attention eh it [TS]

01:26:08   wouldn't just like drag you along in two [TS]

01:26:10   different things all we hey we got to go [TS]

01:26:11   to this new thing having a what you want [TS]

01:26:13   you want to get spammed by this new [TS]

01:26:15   offer that we have this nude cool [TS]

01:26:16   feature here's here's more balloons to [TS]

01:26:18   profit from the system tray to tell you [TS]

01:26:19   all about things and [TS]

01:26:21   if you if you click on the blue they [TS]

01:26:22   don't go away about a new window so you [TS]

01:26:23   gotta figure out where to click on make [TS]

01:26:25   them go away which might exist [TS]

01:26:26   it was just the difference in overall [TS]

01:26:29   attitude towards the user and the [TS]

01:26:32   experience of being a user of both these [TS]

01:26:33   platforms at the time the difference [TS]

01:26:35   could not have been more striking and [TS]

01:26:37   and I do still think that that [TS]

01:26:38   difference exists today and I i don't [TS]

01:26:40   know if it's wider or narrower but it's [TS]

01:26:43   still there as far as i know and i think [TS]

01:26:46   i think os10 soon to be renamed max [TS]

01:26:50   still has the the advantage there is a [TS]

01:26:54   significant margin and that's why i [TS]

01:26:55   still use and this is why I like I am [TS]

01:26:58   such a fan of the Mack I i know it's [TS]

01:27:00   less cool these days to be a fan of the [TS]

01:27:02   mac because not only does everybody have [TS]

01:27:04   them but now the future of computing is [TS]

01:27:05   not the mac according to everybody I [TS]

01:27:07   just don't buy that because I'm such a [TS]

01:27:09   huge fan of the mac i love the mac so [TS]

01:27:12   much i still love it to this day and [TS]

01:27:15   this is all one of the reasons why i am [TS]

01:27:18   so critical when things the mac don't go [TS]

01:27:21   well when it you know if I start seeing [TS]

01:27:24   things slipping or things getting worse [TS]

01:27:26   this is why I'm critical because [TS]

01:27:27   everything i do for work for hobbies for [TS]

01:27:32   entertainment [TS]

01:27:33   almost everything i do involves using a [TS]

01:27:36   computer and I do not want the computer [TS]

01:27:39   to be anything else but a Mac I've tried [TS]

01:27:42   windows [TS]

01:27:43   unfortunately never in linux on the [TS]

01:27:45   desktop of my main desktop i use it here [TS]

01:27:47   and there like at work and school [TS]

01:27:48   sometimes but I never never and I'm a [TS]

01:27:50   computer because I'm not crazy [TS]

01:27:52   okc but everyone I please I know that [TS]

01:27:56   Windows is going to have this new linux [TS]

01:27:58   subsystem we will talk about if it ever [TS]

01:28:00   becomes relevant to us you know I think [TS]

01:28:02   it's still early but I know windows [TS]

01:28:05   Adams please please don't emails about [TS]

01:28:07   this week we know thank you very much we [TS]

01:28:10   will talk about it when when the time [TS]

01:28:11   comes but i do not want to switch back [TS]

01:28:14   to windows and I think if Mac os10 never [TS]

01:28:17   got so bad that I couldn't use it [TS]

01:28:19   anymore [TS]

01:28:19   I would switch to linux because i really [TS]

01:28:22   did run fleeing from windows and as much [TS]

01:28:25   as Microsoft has done things in recent [TS]

01:28:28   years that are interesting to people [TS]

01:28:30   like us they know we always say oh this [TS]

01:28:32   is interesting [TS]

01:28:33   windows 8 with this [TS]

01:28:34   new thing was interesting and Windows 10 [TS]

01:28:36   these new things are interesting the [TS]

01:28:38   gnu/linux system that's interesting [TS]

01:28:40   these are all interesting when you're [TS]

01:28:42   not using them and they're interesting [TS]

01:28:44   because we are a distance and people who [TS]

01:28:47   use them everyday they're probably a lot [TS]

01:28:49   less interesting and and from what I [TS]

01:28:51   hear from people they read the reason [TS]

01:28:52   the reviews from all these things are so [TS]

01:28:54   mixed and there's so many gotchas and [TS]

01:28:56   trade-offs and negatives associated with [TS]

01:28:58   them that it's it sounds to me like [TS]

01:29:01   Windows is roughly the same that it's [TS]

01:29:04   always bit where my entire time using [TS]

01:29:06   Windows I had a love-hate relationship [TS]

01:29:09   with it it was always fine i put up with [TS]

01:29:12   it i tolerated it but it had all these [TS]

01:29:14   annoyances shortcomings and it sounds [TS]

01:29:16   like that's still what it is you know [TS]

01:29:17   just how things shift around a little [TS]

01:29:19   bit there's different audiences some of [TS]

01:29:20   them fix them but have someone added [TS]

01:29:21   sounds like windows from what everyone [TS]

01:29:23   uses it tells me it sounds like it's [TS]

01:29:25   still about the same just you know think [TS]

01:29:27   things are different but the same but [TS]

01:29:30   the mac i I really feel protective of [TS]

01:29:33   because it is my entire computing life [TS]

01:29:35   and I I don't I I neither want that to [TS]

01:29:38   change nor do I want the mac to get [TS]

01:29:41   worse [TS]

01:29:42   I only want them back to get better and [TS]

01:29:44   and that that is why you know I every [TS]

01:29:46   time i say anything negative about apple [TS]

01:29:48   on the show we hear criticism for it [TS]

01:29:50   people complain to us all the time that [TS]

01:29:53   were that were to negative towards Apple [TS]

01:29:54   or that we created Apple too much rather [TS]

01:29:56   tired of hearing a lot about especially [TS]

01:29:57   focused towards me but this is why I do [TS]

01:30:00   it because I love this platform so much [TS]

01:30:03   I depend on the platform so much and [TS]

01:30:06   nothing else out there is good enough [TS]

01:30:08   for me [TS]

01:30:09   you know you mentioned when you're [TS]

01:30:10   talking about the computer like [TS]

01:30:11   respecting the user and you know not [TS]

01:30:15   feeling like you're using someone else's [TS]

01:30:17   computer and like the computer microsoft [TS]

01:30:19   was in control of the computer and you [TS]

01:30:20   just happened to be there and it would [TS]

01:30:22   tolerate your some period of time [TS]

01:30:23   it's once again reminded of how sad mall [TS]

01:30:25   it's probably your age but also partly [TS]

01:30:28   but that you were alive when using [TS]

01:30:30   computers during the age when the mac [TS]

01:30:32   even more like this for the first thing [TS]

01:30:35   that popped in my mind I they gave your [TS]

01:30:38   original example of the computer not [TS]

01:30:40   respecting what you were doing whatever [TS]

01:30:41   it's like old man voice time was and you [TS]

01:30:46   could name it whatever you wanted [TS]

01:30:49   I mean you guys never you lived through [TS]

01:30:51   it but you didn't live through it as a [TS]

01:30:52   user there are when I mean it was still [TS]

01:30:54   files and folders right but you could [TS]

01:30:56   name files whatever you wanted and most [TS]

01:30:59   of the computing world has never lived [TS]

01:31:00   on a system where that's true that the [TS]

01:31:06   file the file name was you just type [TS]

01:31:07   stuff there right sentences spaces [TS]

01:31:10   punctuation no Colin's that will just [TS]

01:31:12   substitute hyphen most people didn't [TS]

01:31:14   notice that one but you but slashes you [TS]

01:31:15   if you want to put dates whatever you [TS]

01:31:17   wanted except for this one special [TS]

01:31:19   character [TS]

01:31:19   yeah yeah all that that's the whole [TS]

01:31:20   thing they wouldn't it wouldn't be but [TS]

01:31:22   you would just suddenly turned into a [TS]

01:31:23   hyphen and and you know but mostly what [TS]

01:31:25   I remembering dates like you do you know [TS]

01:31:27   month day year and the you know typical [TS]

01:31:29   us date type thing with / and stuff [TS]

01:31:30   anyway [TS]

01:31:31   most of the time you just typing words [TS]

01:31:33   there but the whole point is that the [TS]

01:31:35   file name was entirely the users domain [TS]

01:31:38   you could you name your hard drives [TS]

01:31:40   whatever you want you can name your [TS]

01:31:41   files whatever you wanted and I did I [TS]

01:31:43   mean my hard drives whatever I wanted to [TS]

01:31:45   call them my name my files and folders [TS]

01:31:47   in sentences with capital letters in [TS]

01:31:50   each word and spaces between them and [TS]

01:31:51   punctuation and that was a freedom that [TS]

01:31:57   essentially we had for this brief moment [TS]

01:31:59   in time is mostly gone now in any system [TS]

01:32:03   that forces us to deal with the files at [TS]

01:32:04   all I mean I guess the freedom and iOS [TS]

01:32:06   like all your files at all now you're [TS]

01:32:07   free don't feel better but that got [TS]

01:32:11   taken away because it was one of the [TS]

01:32:13   things that didn't carry over from [TS]

01:32:15   classic Mac Mac os10 it's one things [TS]

01:32:18   that has never existed in Windows or [TS]

01:32:20   Linux or anything like that [TS]

01:32:22   yeah whatever you guys missed it it was [TS]

01:32:23   great it was glorious and I don't know [TS]

01:32:25   if I don't know if all ever [TS]

01:32:26   I don't know who ever lived to see it [TS]

01:32:28   again when will i have when will someone [TS]

01:32:31   rediscover that I guess maybe they only [TS]

01:32:34   rediscover it in the context where files [TS]

01:32:37   are no longer thing I know that's the [TS]

01:32:38   jury's still out on that we've talked [TS]

01:32:39   about it so much about how iOS does this [TS]

01:32:42   wonderful thing of [TS]

01:32:43   hiding the file system from people and [TS]

01:32:45   yet the file system is such a flexible [TS]

01:32:47   way files and folders to solve so many [TS]

01:32:49   problems that you either have to end up [TS]

01:32:51   recreating the file system in the form [TS]

01:32:54   of a new abstraction that isn't actually [TS]

01:32:56   directly back by the file system but [TS]

01:32:58   just gives people to arrest you know [TS]

01:32:59   like springboard is a great example [TS]

01:33:01   folders you know they call them folders [TS]

01:33:03   just for historical reasons if you were [TS]

01:33:05   to plop someone down in 2007 that our [TS]

01:33:08   whatever they added folders to [TS]

01:33:10   springboard not 2007 I guess they wanted [TS]

01:33:12   they call those folders they don't look [TS]

01:33:14   anything like folders and they don't [TS]

01:33:15   really behave anything like that's all [TS]

01:33:17   you got to explain desktop metaphor [TS]

01:33:19   files folders anyway [TS]

01:33:21   yet you re creating something like that [TS]

01:33:24   but it's not quite the same thing [TS]

01:33:25   doesn't have the same flexibility of [TS]

01:33:26   being able to name things and save them [TS]

01:33:29   somewhere and and organize them and pull [TS]

01:33:32   them back up so it could be that no one [TS]

01:33:35   ever hesitation to use that but if it [TS]

01:33:37   turns out that that type of arrangement [TS]

01:33:40   really is the best way we come up with [TS]

01:33:42   for people to arbitrarily arrange stuff [TS]

01:33:46   on their computing device maybe it will [TS]

01:33:49   come back again but boy it was great and [TS]

01:33:51   I still think about it every time I see [TS]

01:33:53   like a a hidden file name extension [TS]

01:33:55   comes out and scares me or incorrect [TS]

01:33:57   file an extension causes an icon to have [TS]

01:33:59   chosen the file to have the wrong icon [TS]

01:34:01   of course it to launch the wrong [TS]

01:34:02   application by what a mess so just annoy [TS]

01:34:06   you John like all kidding aside that [TS]

01:34:07   that Marco and I especially I especially [TS]

01:34:10   me are so new to the platform like does [TS]

01:34:13   that frustrate you because we don't have [TS]

01:34:14   that that we didn't go through the [TS]

01:34:16   crappy time like you did now it's mostly [TS]

01:34:19   I i tried the thing that bothers me the [TS]

01:34:21   most is the time when you guys were [TS]

01:34:23   alive and using computers but weren't [TS]

01:34:25   using that all the things that all [TS]

01:34:28   things that you like about Max were true [TS]

01:34:30   and Pat perhaps like it's that perhaps [TS]

01:34:31   even more true then [TS]

01:34:33   and yet you weren't like it's like [TS]

01:34:34   wasted time like you could have been [TS]

01:34:36   using max but you weren't for a bunch of [TS]

01:34:37   silly reason right that's fair that's [TS]

01:34:40   fair [TS]

01:34:41   although i don't know if you would put [TS]

01:34:43   you know 10 or 12 year old me in front [TS]

01:34:46   of a mac at home like not at school [TS]

01:34:48   because I enjoyed using at school I mean [TS]

01:34:50   it was a it was a neat little diversion [TS]

01:34:51   but if you put me in front of one of [TS]

01:34:53   those at home I don't think I would have [TS]

01:34:56   appreciated [TS]

01:34:56   like even you know an equivalently aged [TS]

01:35:00   you was like i don't i don't want to do [TS]

01:35:02   the math in my head but however old you [TS]

01:35:04   were when the mac was new was young as [TS]

01:35:07   far as i remember as far as I'm aware [TS]

01:35:09   and so you appreciate it even has a [TS]

01:35:11   younger age are at a younger age you [TS]

01:35:13   appreciated much better than I think I [TS]

01:35:15   would have if I were in your shoes [TS]

01:35:17   not I I think you would I think you both [TS]

01:35:20   had you both had and have the like the [TS]

01:35:23   the sensibilities to appreciate it i [TS]

01:35:26   mean speaking more realistic me that I [TS]

01:35:29   like this [TS]

01:35:29   my experience has been whenever I had [TS]

01:35:31   someone over my house who was a hardcore [TS]

01:35:34   PC user like a friend or whatever was [TS]

01:35:36   totally into be seized and thought max [TS]

01:35:37   were junk i could blow their mind with [TS]

01:35:41   the things i did with my computer even [TS]

01:35:42   my computer was black-and-white the fact [TS]

01:35:44   that the pixels are so friggin microsoft [TS]

01:35:46   was the retina screen of the day they [TS]

01:35:47   had never seen experience with pixels [TS]

01:35:49   the smaller the sharp like I would blow [TS]

01:35:51   their mind with black-and-white games [TS]

01:35:54   you know I games and inequity talk how [TS]

01:35:56   could you blow their mind with the game [TS]

01:35:57   they're playing doom right the pixels of [TS]

01:35:59   the size of boulders right i would blow [TS]

01:36:00   their mind by having multiple screens [TS]

01:36:02   and arranging them was like the displays [TS]

01:36:03   control panel like there were so many [TS]

01:36:05   things I could do that would just make [TS]

01:36:06   their heads explode and they were their [TS]

01:36:08   drawers would drop it was just so much [TS]

01:36:10   farther ahead of anything we had ever [TS]

01:36:11   seen [TS]

01:36:12   did that mean they were gonna go home [TS]

01:36:13   and buy a mac know because max where max [TS]

01:36:16   or a bajillion dollars there's no [TS]

01:36:17   avoiding this like they were just so [TS]

01:36:19   much more expensive and it's kind of [TS]

01:36:21   like it you know the computers [TS]

01:36:23   themselves are so much more expensive [TS]

01:36:24   back then it's not like you had each kid [TS]

01:36:26   had their own computer like the family [TS]

01:36:27   had one computer was like a car you know [TS]

01:36:29   it wasn't like you just bought a new one [TS]

01:36:30   every year hoping this would be for the [TS]

01:36:32   upgrade cycle and the internet and other [TS]

01:36:35   stuff so realistically speaking about [TS]

01:36:37   how made somebody was by my mac they're [TS]

01:36:39   not going to go home and say hey mom can [TS]

01:36:41   we buy three thousand dollars in [TS]

01:36:42   nineteen eighties money computer they [TS]

01:36:44   were like what are you talking about it [TS]

01:36:45   was you know so really i'm speaking of [TS]

01:36:47   our position of massive privilege having [TS]

01:36:49   had the original you know macintosh 128k [TS]

01:36:51   macintosh and a series of maxim like you [TS]

01:36:54   just couldn't form that because that was [TS]

01:36:56   one thing that was true back in the you [TS]

01:36:57   know the the slam against the max [TS]

01:36:59   they're more expensive my god with a [TS]

01:37:01   more expensive everything to help them [TS]

01:37:02   somewhere the keyboard was two hundred [TS]

01:37:03   dollars for crying out loud at nineteen [TS]

01:37:05   eighties money right one [TS]

01:37:07   fantastic was an awesome keyboard though [TS]

01:37:09   ask where I think he's still using it [TS]

01:37:11   oh that's so real so this week that's [TS]

01:37:13   one of the reasons but and that was also [TS]

01:37:15   one of the reasons that you couldn't [TS]

01:37:16   convince people accepted that they would [TS]

01:37:18   come over and I would blow them away [TS]

01:37:19   with my amazing mcintosh but they had to [TS]

01:37:22   go back home and retrench on the pc [TS]

01:37:24   because there's no way they could get a [TS]

01:37:26   mac like there was it was never going to [TS]

01:37:28   happen right i mean they would have had [TS]

01:37:30   to turn around and try to convince their [TS]

01:37:32   parents together mac and they would not [TS]

01:37:34   be successful because their parents [TS]

01:37:35   wouldn't be as impressed by what [TS]

01:37:37   everything that i showed them so that it [TS]

01:37:40   was it was an uphill battle and but i [TS]

01:37:43   believe both of you would have also been [TS]

01:37:46   impressed by the things I mean even when [TS]

01:37:48   i got my color 1 24 bit color it's not [TS]

01:37:50   24-bit color on picking on me again all [TS]

01:37:52   my pc using friends have never even seen [TS]

01:37:53   a screen with 16.8 million college had [TS]

01:37:56   no idea like they were you know vga 256 [TS]

01:37:59   they were just amazing that you would go [TS]

01:38:01   640 by 480 it's like you don't even know [TS]

01:38:03   what you're talking about guys let me [TS]

01:38:04   show you [TS]

01:38:05   you know you're like a transfer [TS]

01:38:06   on-screen high risk transfer on screen [TS]

01:38:08   with 24 bit color attached to my mac [TS]

01:38:13   ac30 arranged with the black-and-whites [TS]

01:38:16   got i would drag a window half on the [TS]

01:38:18   black and white screen half on the color [TS]

01:38:19   screen and move it around just their [TS]

01:38:21   little brains would explode and you know [TS]

01:38:25   and that computer setup was like six [TS]

01:38:27   thousand dollars right so how those are [TS]

01:38:31   the days man but I mean there there are [TS]

01:38:33   explicable reasons but i feel like you [TS]

01:38:35   two would have appreciated what you're [TS]

01:38:38   seeing because you appreciate I mean you [TS]

01:38:39   appreciate nice things like that that [TS]

01:38:41   look nice you appreciate the Apple [TS]

01:38:43   aesthetic like all the sort of things [TS]

01:38:45   that make a Ferrari different than a [TS]

01:38:47   muscle car i believe you both could have [TS]

01:38:51   appreciated then because you do [TS]

01:38:52   appreciate that the same reason case you [TS]

01:38:54   made your disk icon look different [TS]

01:38:56   that is a Mac user thing to do 9pcs had [TS]

01:38:59   drive letters I see and I think it was [TS]

01:39:01   just me wanting to be cooler than my [TS]

01:39:03   peers I appreciate everything you just [TS]

01:39:05   said that the mac was cooler though it [TS]

01:39:08   was it i mean yeah i know i was well put [TS]

01:39:10   to you because you appreciated these [TS]

01:39:12   things whereas to mark when I am i'm [TS]

01:39:14   putting words in Marcos mouth [TS]

01:39:15   I think we would have been like you know [TS]

01:39:17   that is really cool that you have all [TS]

01:39:18   these colors and yeah that does look [TS]

01:39:19   nice but [TS]

01:39:20   remind me again why I can't play doom or [TS]

01:39:22   whatever you know the game of the week [TS]

01:39:24   was right i don't think i would have [TS]

01:39:26   carried a game games was the thing that [TS]

01:39:28   you could pull out of the pc but like a [TS]

01:39:29   you know it seemed like it was old hat [TS]

01:39:32   like doing was everywhere it doing was [TS]

01:39:34   not a differentiator everybody had doom [TS]

01:39:36   like you could you could play due mon on [TS]

01:39:39   any old computer wasn't technically [TS]

01:39:41   impressive after the first you know then [TS]

01:39:43   it [TS]

01:39:44   same thing with like you know the the [TS]

01:39:46   playstation and once the 3d game console [TS]

01:39:48   started coming out a lot of the gaming [TS]

01:39:49   shifted that look like pc gaming you [TS]

01:39:53   know the result that was always gonna be [TS]

01:39:54   something that the pc was going to do [TS]

01:39:55   better and you know the mac never came [TS]

01:39:57   close in gaming so that was just just [TS]

01:39:59   complete write-off but that's why I said [TS]

01:40:00   it was amazing that I can impress my [TS]

01:40:02   friends with mac games good [TS]

01:40:03   what in the world could you impress them [TS]

01:40:04   with like they had every game in the [TS]

01:40:05   world right then they have everything in [TS]

01:40:07   the world what what kind of mac possibly [TS]

01:40:08   do with games and our children games [TS]

01:40:10   that didn't even exist on the pc so [TS]

01:40:12   that's like opening their eyes up to a [TS]

01:40:13   you know whole world of quirky games and [TS]

01:40:16   be high-res games like there are certain [TS]

01:40:18   genres of games that's why syndicate was [TS]

01:40:20   so amazing to go with 640 by 480 you [TS]

01:40:22   have to see the little people on your pc [TS]

01:40:24   it was like one of the only pc games [TS]

01:40:26   like when i was playing sitting with my [TS]

01:40:27   friends that even like see the reason [TS]

01:40:29   you like this game is the reason why [TS]

01:40:31   people care anything about the mac games [TS]

01:40:33   because the mac has no games the most [TS]

01:40:34   the games are terrible but the ones that [TS]

01:40:36   it has are all beautiful and high-res [TS]

01:40:38   and have nice colors & are interesting [TS]

01:40:40   or whatever anyway now I definitely [TS]

01:40:43   think the mac was cooler in the same [TS]

01:40:45   with Steve Jobs cool than Bill Gates [TS]

01:40:46   like that's basically the human [TS]

01:40:48   embodiment of why app on the max cooler [TS]

01:40:51   first of all I think there might be at [TS]

01:40:53   the age gap here showing that like I [TS]

01:40:55   think John you're talking about the [TS]

01:40:57   difference between macs and pcs for [TS]

01:40:58   gaming and stuff i think at an earlier [TS]

01:41:00   time span that was mostly relevant to me [TS]

01:41:02   in kc words like for us like we were [TS]

01:41:05   comparing max in like you know 1994 [TS]

01:41:09   through 99 like that like that error [TS]

01:41:11   like comparing those macs two depending [TS]

01:41:15   on one the 46 and and us vga graphics [TS]

01:41:18   cards and us that you're comparing the [TS]

01:41:21   Apple going down the toilet drain like [TS]

01:41:23   Apple going-out-of-business like the pre [TS]

01:41:25   Steve Jobs 1997 like the low point of [TS]

01:41:27   Apple so if you're if you're any of the [TS]

01:41:29   middle to late nineties yet that was the [TS]

01:41:31   worst Apple would ever be [TS]

01:41:33   that's why I'm saying that it was a [TS]

01:41:35   shame that you had missed out on apple [TS]

01:41:37   for all those years when you could have [TS]

01:41:38   been using when you just wasn't even on [TS]

01:41:39   your radar right because Apple was not [TS]

01:41:41   as bad then especially in comparison so [TS]

01:41:44   I mean computer and i got my first [TS]

01:41:46   computer 94like so it was but I got a [TS]

01:41:49   computer APPL was already on the decline [TS]

01:41:52   and at that point like you know you say [TS]

01:41:55   you say like me in kc you know we [TS]

01:41:56   appreciate good things I don't know [TS]

01:41:58   about Casey but would not when i was in [TS]

01:42:00   middle school and high school I didn't [TS]

01:42:02   appreciate nice things I just wanted to [TS]

01:42:03   play games like that's yeah that's what [TS]

01:42:05   every middle school or high school wants [TS]

01:42:07   to do with their computers play games [TS]

01:42:08   it's look I you know I can yeah i could [TS]

01:42:11   type of paper on it cool let me finish [TS]

01:42:12   that we can go back to playing doom like [TS]

01:42:14   that it was an end by the way every [TS]

01:42:17   other game because of the high like yes [TS]

01:42:19   you could play games on max but not most [TS]

01:42:21   of them and usually not when they were [TS]

01:42:24   new 1pcs i think over your play doom on [TS]

01:42:26   the mac and the nineties actually have [TS]

01:42:28   terrible terrible next version of doom [TS]

01:42:30   for that was grim [TS]

01:42:32   yeah but see and like gaming on the Mac [TS]

01:42:34   was always a second-class citizen very [TS]

01:42:36   gaming on the on the pc like in the [TS]

01:42:37   nineties so and honestly still today but [TS]

01:42:40   less less so to hey you guys know how [TS]

01:42:43   good you have it today I think maybe [TS]

01:42:44   worse today is like a backhand even in [TS]

01:42:46   the nineties if I had showed you a [TS]

01:42:48   black-and-white version of dark castle [TS]

01:42:50   you would have been impressed because [TS]

01:42:52   there was nothing like that on the pc [TS]

01:42:53   because there was over the mac only game [TS]

01:42:55   and it just looked and played so much [TS]

01:43:00   differently than anything you would have [TS]

01:43:01   seen on NBC you would have still said [TS]

01:43:04   that dream was better because doing was [TS]

01:43:05   better but it was interesting and an [TS]

01:43:08   impressive and novel in in a way that [TS]

01:43:12   made the mat and differentiated the mac [TS]

01:43:15   because there is no way the mac was [TS]

01:43:16   going to me by saying whatever popular [TS]

01:43:19   game you liking your pc we have that on [TS]

01:43:21   the Mac because of what was the point [TS]

01:43:22   even if it exactly duplicated was like [TS]

01:43:24   well but i already had that the only way [TS]

01:43:26   that could could be meaningful in any [TS]

01:43:28   way was to have something different and [TS]

01:43:29   that's how you would impress a jaded [TS]

01:43:32   diehard PC you can impress them by [TS]

01:43:34   showing them doom and quake they already [TS]

01:43:35   have those games like even if they ran [TS]

01:43:37   perfectly so what they already had that [TS]

01:43:39   it has to be something different [TS]

01:43:41   and that's what Mac gaming had again [TS]

01:43:44   they're not gonna say okay well now i [TS]

01:43:45   need to get a mac but plenty of pc using [TS]

01:43:47   friends like I will never give up my pc [TS]

01:43:49   for a mac but can we go over to your [TS]

01:43:50   house and play that weird that game that [TS]

01:43:52   we're playing hey what happened to all [TS]

01:43:53   the time [TS]

01:43:54   well that was going to like be abandoned [TS]

01:43:56   computers were educated they're so [TS]

01:43:58   expensive the so not only did like most [TS]

01:44:01   people don't even have one so you have [TS]

01:44:02   to have one at all was a luxury and also [TS]

01:44:05   you wouldn't have been exposed to many [TS]

01:44:07   of them during that time like like you [TS]

01:44:09   know the total number of computers that [TS]

01:44:11   I played on during my entire childhood [TS]

01:44:14   was probably like including at friends [TS]

01:44:16   houses was probably less than 10 so i [TS]

01:44:19   can get you weren't exposed to many [TS]

01:44:20   computers you if you have any were very [TS]

01:44:22   lucky and the upgrade cycle was pretty [TS]

01:44:25   long especially when you're a kid like [TS]

01:44:27   three years or five years feels like [TS]

01:44:28   forever when you're a kid that could be [TS]

01:44:30   like a 30 or childhood least the part [TS]

01:44:31   you remember so whatever you got like [TS]

01:44:34   the sense of like you know what is now [TS]

01:44:36   called fanboyism like the sense of I [TS]

01:44:37   trying to defend your purchase trying to [TS]

01:44:40   never let the thought into your head [TS]

01:44:42   that something else is out there is [TS]

01:44:44   better than what you got [TS]

01:44:45   pc people had no chance of appreciating [TS]

01:44:48   anything the mac had that was better [TS]

01:44:50   because they were pc people already and [TS]

01:44:52   they couldn't just like buy a mac next [TS]

01:44:54   month like know you were stuck with that [TS]

01:44:56   pc you got for all of middle school you [TS]

01:44:58   know you're over it so like whatever you [TS]

01:45:01   had like you had to be happy with that [TS]

01:45:02   and they could probably couldn't buy a [TS]

01:45:04   mac next year in prison they were so [TS]

01:45:06   expensive when it came time to replace [TS]

01:45:07   your pc there's nowhere you're gonna [TS]

01:45:09   replace it with a computer that cost [TS]

01:45:10   literally twice as much right times as [TS]

01:45:12   much everything but I've again the [TS]

01:45:14   things you appreciate the type of person [TS]

01:45:15   who would see just the hardware on a Mac [TS]

01:45:18   like what the case looks like what how [TS]

01:45:20   it's designed and how it doesn't look [TS]

01:45:22   like you know the IBM PC xtk soar like [TS]

01:45:25   the Gateway always liked it was [TS]

01:45:27   aesthetically a difference in both the [TS]

01:45:29   hardware and the software that you would [TS]

01:45:30   appreciate it as sort of like a nicer [TS]

01:45:32   things kinda like if you got into your [TS]

01:45:34   friends Mercedes like we never had fancy [TS]

01:45:36   cars but I had friends who had Perseids [TS]

01:45:38   are their parents will come to pick me [TS]

01:45:40   up and I would sit in them over like wow [TS]

01:45:41   like this is a different this is a [TS]

01:45:44   different kind of car everything in this [TS]

01:45:45   car is nicer the door handles the seats [TS]

01:45:47   the dashboard the headliner the little [TS]

01:45:50   carpets under my feet [TS]

01:45:52   everything about it's just nicer and [TS]

01:45:55   Weiner and like the mac did that with [TS]

01:45:56   the little pixels on the screen that [TS]

01:45:57   everything was like classy and tasteful [TS]

01:45:59   and nicely drawn maybe again if you'd [TS]

01:46:01   like that particular style that the mac [TS]

01:46:04   deals you I feel like both you do like [TS]

01:46:06   that particular style because apple [TS]

01:46:07   style today when both hardware and [TS]

01:46:09   software is not that different from that [TS]

01:46:11   and so again it doesn't mean that you [TS]

01:46:12   would run out and buy one but that you [TS]

01:46:14   would see it and go this is a nice this [TS]

01:46:16   is a nice thing here this ridiculously [TS]

01:46:18   expensive computer I can kind of see [TS]

01:46:20   where the six thousand dollars went [TS]

01:46:21   someone paid some designer to make this [TS]

01:46:23   case to look nice so it looks good from [TS]

01:46:25   all sorts of angles and everything kind [TS]

01:46:26   of matches and its really nice and [TS]

01:46:28   everything I see the screen is nice to [TS]

01:46:29   like to the keyboard sucks [TS]

01:46:31   yeah some people some people can't be [TS]

01:46:33   ship is all they would see is like the [TS]

01:46:34   lack of a command line or let you know [TS]

01:46:36   if there are eunuchs never did like the [TS]

01:46:37   lack of you know emacs or them or [TS]

01:46:40   whatever like it depends on what you say [TS]

01:46:42   about it because the fact that you two [TS]

01:46:44   are Mac users today I feel confident [TS]

01:46:45   that you would have that attraction [TS]

01:46:48   could have been fostered in younger [TS]

01:46:51   versions of yourself and so you did so [TS]

01:46:53   your first Apple experiences weren't [TS]

01:46:54   like when Apple what is the lowest point [TS]

01:46:57   it would ever be in the history of the [TS]

01:46:58   company and had the worst products that [TS]

01:47:00   would ever have a ministry of the [TS]

01:47:01   company probably not a good entry point [TS]

01:47:03   for you to get into apple i don't know i [TS]

01:47:05   agree with Marco that I i think in that [TS]

01:47:08   era I don't know that I the eye for it [TS]

01:47:10   but who knows you know you know you can [TS]

01:47:12   never really tell you one thing though [TS]

01:47:14   that I that I feel like you might have [TS]

01:47:16   missed out on at least my perception of [TS]

01:47:19   how ordering and a mac worked back in [TS]

01:47:22   the day is I remember fretting with my [TS]

01:47:25   father for days sometimes weeks trying [TS]

01:47:30   to figure out the exact right bill to [TS]

01:47:33   make of our gateway 2000 computer and [TS]

01:47:36   then eventually our dell computers and [TS]

01:47:38   in many ways that's not a good thing [TS]

01:47:41   that we had that much choice that there [TS]

01:47:44   were that many options that we have to [TS]

01:47:46   figure this all out [TS]

01:47:47   oftentimes you have to call somebody [TS]

01:47:48   because the internet was either not a [TS]

01:47:50   thing or brand new and you would [TS]

01:47:53   eventually place the order over the [TS]

01:47:54   phone and you have to quadruple check it [TS]

01:47:56   to make sure they got it right and you [TS]

01:47:57   have to get catalogs and blah blah blah [TS]

01:47:59   but so much of that was so intense and [TS]

01:48:03   in for me with such a bonding moment [TS]

01:48:04   with my dad that we had to figure out [TS]

01:48:07   the exact right computer [TS]

01:48:09   that both of us could agree on and we [TS]

01:48:10   had so many choices a raid in front of [TS]

01:48:12   us and so many different decisions we [TS]

01:48:14   have to make and although i'm so glad [TS]

01:48:17   today that i don't have to do those [TS]

01:48:19   sorts of things that that my data that i [TS]

01:48:23   have maybe two or three options within [TS]

01:48:24   the brand the kind of computer i want [TS]

01:48:27   i'm still up i'm thankful for that time [TS]

01:48:31   because it was really really awesome at [TS]

01:48:35   that moment in such an exciting time to [TS]

01:48:37   be in 2pcs was when you had so many [TS]

01:48:41   options to customize so much but i don't [TS]

01:48:44   know maybe for you John you just found [TS]

01:48:45   that deplorable well then when you're [TS]

01:48:48   done you got a pc at the end so is kind [TS]

01:48:49   of back and I remember because I would [TS]

01:48:53   go to the you guys probably do these [TS]

01:48:54   things to him maybe a little before your [TS]

01:48:56   time you go to like computer fares are [TS]

01:48:59   like flea market type things where [TS]

01:49:01   people would sell all the components to [TS]

01:49:02   build your pc that's how I built the [TS]

01:49:04   first pci built right and being you know [TS]

01:49:06   that's that was I guess it was kind of [TS]

01:49:09   like maybe before compusa and the super [TS]

01:49:12   stories came like this is where you [TS]

01:49:13   would go to pull your pc or just people [TS]

01:49:15   people will have cases and drives and [TS]

01:49:17   motherboards and just all the different [TS]

01:49:19   components and it was just making around [TS]

01:49:21   around 36 46 hours i remember these [TS]

01:49:23   being big before like by the time the [TS]

01:49:25   Pentiums around I feel like the super [TS]

01:49:26   stores to start to come on and you would [TS]

01:49:28   go there you just go to frys or [TS]

01:49:29   something and get your pieces but these [TS]

01:49:30   are more sort of low-rent people setting [TS]

01:49:33   up tables buying parts from the Far East [TS]

01:49:35   and just selling them to you know about [TS]

01:49:36   a pentium two and one of those you could [TS]

01:49:39   get you could go there you know what you [TS]

01:49:40   were looking for you could go there and [TS]

01:49:41   build yourself a pc at all sorts of [TS]

01:49:44   parts and again that was the one of the [TS]

01:49:46   big rally crisis like I can build this [TS]

01:49:48   amazing computer they can run quick in [TS]

01:49:50   this that and the other thing and look [TS]

01:49:52   how cheaply I could do it and of course [TS]

01:49:53   what you would end up with this is [TS]

01:49:54   terrible mongrel looks like it was made [TS]

01:49:56   assembled from pieces that you bought a [TS]

01:49:58   computer fair which is exactly what it [TS]

01:50:00   was [TS]

01:50:00   how come on it wasn't it was just in the [TS]

01:50:02   same and light 737 that everybody else [TS]

01:50:04   had their with lots of different popular [TS]

01:50:07   case i remember i was still going to [TS]

01:50:09   computers went full high towers were [TS]

01:50:11   thing did you ever get a full height [TS]

01:50:13   that yeah actually the first one built [TS]

01:50:14   was indeed a full-height shower because [TS]

01:50:16   i want another drive bays [TS]

01:50:17   I mean you can live in there like you [TS]

01:50:19   make a little house is like a hawk said [TS]

01:50:20   yeah [TS]

01:50:21   remember how your computer's I i think [TS]

01:50:24   the only time i had excitement about the [TS]

01:50:26   phenomena together with my friends and [TS]

01:50:27   watch them assemble their crap pcs with [TS]

01:50:29   the part about the same part that I was [TS]

01:50:31   excited about was I was excited to help [TS]

01:50:33   them build their species i will say i [TS]

01:50:34   want to go over their house and play pc [TS]

01:50:36   games on it right on the head [TS]

01:50:38   also I had later a little bit later i [TS]

01:50:41   guess this was in the superstar when the [TS]

01:50:43   dawning of the linux age minutes before [TS]

01:50:45   that and linux that was exciting because [TS]

01:50:48   all right everyone knows you can build a [TS]

01:50:50   pc but you can build a unix computer [TS]

01:50:53   from the same pieces that was a novel [TS]

01:50:56   concept because before that the only way [TS]

01:50:58   you got against computer was like any [TS]

01:50:59   university and like you know son would [TS]

01:51:02   sell to you for even more than a mac or [TS]

01:51:04   whatever now it's like these same parts [TS]

01:51:06   of the same flea market I can make a [TS]

01:51:08   computer and run linux on and so now I'm [TS]

01:51:11   not building a crappy pc i'm running a [TS]

01:51:13   linux server that's going to connect to [TS]

01:51:14   the internet and it's going to be [TS]

01:51:15   amazing [TS]

01:51:16   goodness [TS]

01:51:19   any other thoughts market let's start [TS]

01:51:22   with you on the apples 40th congrats i [TS]

01:51:25   guess i don't know it's hard you know [TS]

01:51:27   it's there such a big company now [TS]

01:51:29   they've come so far it's it's kind of [TS]

01:51:32   like saying you know the history of like [TS]

01:51:34   GE like it [TS]

01:51:36   they're so big that it's it's kind of [TS]

01:51:38   hard to sum it up and and to see what's [TS]

01:51:40   going to happen next [TS]

01:51:41   i I just I hope that they continue to be [TS]

01:51:46   Apple to take TQ to be a Polly to not [TS]

01:51:51   lose their personality and I hope is a [TS]

01:51:53   very strong future for the Mac because [TS]

01:51:55   almost every thing we've talked about so [TS]

01:51:58   far tonight in in this celebration of [TS]

01:52:01   their history was not just the history [TS]

01:52:03   of Apple but the history of specifically [TS]

01:52:05   the mac and now Apple to a lot more [TS]

01:52:07   things and I really hope the Mac doesn't [TS]

01:52:10   get lost or neglected because it is so [TS]

01:52:15   great and while there is obviously tons [TS]

01:52:18   of room for people to be you doing their [TS]

01:52:21   computing on iOS and other things I i do [TS]

01:52:25   still think that these devices are not [TS]

01:52:28   killing the mac and not replacing the [TS]

01:52:30   mac it's just sit there just a new thing [TS]

01:52:31   it's another thing that you could do [TS]

01:52:34   in addition to or instead of if you want [TS]

01:52:36   to but the mac itself I think is the [TS]

01:52:39   core of all this stuff it's it's the [TS]

01:52:41   home base it is the hub as they used to [TS]

01:52:43   sell as they sell it by and I i really [TS]

01:52:47   hope the mac has a bright future and I [TS]

01:52:49   think it will and I i look forward to [TS]

01:52:53   what that includes yeah i agree it's [TS]

01:52:55   funny you're you're right in saying that [TS]

01:52:57   we haven't really talked about iOS much [TS]

01:52:59   and I think that's because I associate [TS]

01:53:02   so much of like older Apple with the mac [TS]

01:53:04   because naturally these things weren't [TS]

01:53:05   existing but you know i have five [TS]

01:53:08   stories about the ipad I've stories [TS]

01:53:09   about the iphone but man I've really [TS]

01:53:12   like using this as an opportunity to [TS]

01:53:14   think about the mac and John final [TS]

01:53:16   thoughts [TS]

01:53:17   yeah we didn't really get to the other [TS]

01:53:19   pillars every night they're kind of [TS]

01:53:20   obvious that i get me the too close to [TS]

01:53:22   home but I maybe I put in the notes [TS]

01:53:24   maybe i'll talk about the imac a little [TS]

01:53:26   bit next week but obviously after that [TS]

01:53:28   you know you mentioned the ipod and of [TS]

01:53:30   course you got the iphone we're in the [TS]

01:53:31   obituary of apple if it was to die today [TS]

01:53:34   the young age of 40 iphones line one [TS]

01:53:37   right i mean it is such a sum of the [TS]

01:53:39   larger much more successful revolution [TS]

01:53:42   of the same kind as the mac in that what [TS]

01:53:45   Apple said is here's the way the phones [TS]

01:53:48   are going to work and it this time the [TS]

01:53:50   world was much faster to go oh you're [TS]

01:53:52   totally right that's it that's because [TS]

01:53:54   that's what we're going to do you see [TS]

01:53:56   all the pictures of like phones before [TS]

01:53:57   and after the iphone again apples not [TS]

01:54:00   first with a touchscreen phone not even [TS]

01:54:01   first with mostly screen touchscreen [TS]

01:54:03   phone but such a huge revolution so I [TS]

01:54:05   feel like it's the mac maybe the ipod [TS]

01:54:09   and then the iphone hot for 40 years of [TS]

01:54:13   putting most companies don't even get a [TS]

01:54:15   one hit on the caliber not hit not even [TS]

01:54:18   just like popular product and one sort [TS]

01:54:20   of revolution where it is a dividing [TS]

01:54:23   line between what did computers look [TS]

01:54:25   like before they had gooeys and what [TS]

01:54:27   they look after and what was responsible [TS]

01:54:29   for that transition [TS]

01:54:30   what did phones look like before the [TS]

01:54:32   iphone and what they look like after and [TS]

01:54:35   ipod about the digital music players act [TS]

01:54:39   like before and after maybe sort of [TS]

01:54:41   popularized digital music player but [TS]

01:54:42   again most companies don't even have a [TS]

01:54:45   single one of those the biggest company [TS]

01:54:47   in the world [TS]

01:54:47   and have one Apple has to which is [TS]

01:54:49   phenomenal to maybe 2.5 and that's what [TS]

01:54:53   I think defines Apple its first 40 years [TS]

01:54:55   that it proves that it's the company and [TS]

01:54:57   then you get in but the Apple too and [TS]

01:54:58   there you nobody did the line needs to [TS]

01:55:00   put in their press the button on the [TS]

01:55:01   press releases Apple ignited the [TS]

01:55:02   personal computer revolution blah blah [TS]

01:55:04   and yet the Apple to was important but [TS]

01:55:07   you could say that if the if the Apple [TS]

01:55:09   to didn't happen then maybe the IBM PC [TS]

01:55:11   might everywhere they really that [TS]

01:55:13   different but the mac really made [TS]

01:55:15   something happen that the I don't think [TS]

01:55:18   if the mac didn't exist we would have to [TS]

01:55:19   wait much longer for the first big-girl [TS]

01:55:21   computer and the same thing with a [TS]

01:55:22   smartphone with the iphone didn't exist [TS]

01:55:24   we probably would eventually got into a [TS]

01:55:25   similar place but it would have taken [TS]

01:55:26   way longer just look what I android look [TS]

01:55:28   like in the days before the iphone will [TS]

01:55:30   look like after so Apple is defined as [TS]

01:55:33   this company that has done this [TS]

01:55:35   miraculous thing multiple times and [TS]

01:55:38   therefore take this magical place in our [TS]

01:55:40   minds in our memories that it is not [TS]

01:55:42   just a bunch of people who are in the [TS]

01:55:44   right place at the right time and got [TS]

01:55:45   lucky once that they somehow have [TS]

01:55:48   figured out a way system for you know a [TS]

01:55:52   system for greatness and then same is [TS]

01:55:54   similar to picture or whatever with that [TS]

01:55:55   system of steve jobs i guess we'll find [TS]

01:55:56   out in 30 years ago you know it wasn't [TS]

01:55:58   really assistant for greatness was [TS]

01:55:59   really just as one amazing guy but I [TS]

01:56:01   feel like there's been enough things [TS]

01:56:04   that have happened and enough promise [TS]

01:56:05   has been shown that i did it's not out [TS]

01:56:08   of the question for Apple to have [TS]

01:56:10   another iphone like product revolution [TS]

01:56:13   somewhere in our lifetimes I'm like [TS]

01:56:16   self-driving cars i'm pretty confident [TS]

01:56:18   notice that is a feasible a feasible [TS]

01:56:20   thing that could happen but if not if [TS]

01:56:24   Apple goes out of business today I'd [TS]

01:56:26   still say you would stand it up as one [TS]

01:56:28   of the great companies ever to be on the [TS]

01:56:30   face of the earth in all terms you could [TS]

01:56:33   possibly measure financial success [TS]

01:56:34   customer satisfaction which Tim loves [TS]

01:56:37   mr. percent and just it an impact on the [TS]

01:56:40   world like if you were to you know they [TS]

01:56:43   were do one of those montages of the the [TS]

01:56:45   you know the years that Apple has [TS]

01:56:46   existed a lot of things that Apple did [TS]

01:56:49   would appear in that montage not because [TS]

01:56:51   it would be glorifying apple because [TS]

01:56:52   they changed the way all of us live [TS]

01:56:55   and.and work and had to help the thing [TS]

01:56:58   that sucks about three sponsors this [TS]

01:57:01   week [TS]

01:57:02   hover blue apron and betterment and [TS]

01:57:04   we'll see you next week [TS]

01:57:07   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:57:11   mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

01:57:14   was accidental [TS]

01:57:17   John research Marco and Casey would like [TS]

01:57:23   because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

01:57:28   you can find the show know today d p dot [TS]

01:57:32   and it for twitter follow them [TS]

01:57:39   yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:57:44   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment our DC at [TS]

01:57:53   Syracuse it [TS]

01:58:04   now what is this ongoing I ongoing [TS]

01:58:10   iCloud Drive pages TextEdit failures [TS]

01:58:13   that some quick that we can just use his [TS]

01:58:14   name for sure [TS]

01:58:15   yeah that's a quickie guess it's just [TS]

01:58:17   complaining but like I talked to this [TS]

01:58:19   before that you really want to follow up [TS]

01:58:20   that with with complaining what Apple [TS]

01:58:22   think this fair point it's just it's [TS]

01:58:25   just a minor like update on this thing [TS]

01:58:26   we were talking about before like doing [TS]

01:58:28   stuff and pages and it wouldn't let me [TS]

01:58:29   save it's not me it's my daughter she [TS]

01:58:32   wants to write things [TS]

01:58:33   yeah you had some kind of like some kind [TS]

01:58:34   of like sink conflict right yeah and I [TS]

01:58:36   just I just wants to write plaintext [TS]

01:58:38   more or less or style text and I don't [TS]

01:58:41   know why I keep encouraging her to do [TS]

01:58:42   this sort of the pages in the dark I [TS]

01:58:44   said oh just launched pages and do that [TS]

01:58:46   and then it wasn't even like I was [TS]

01:58:47   trying to have read about our iPad [TS]

01:58:48   anymore they gave up on that but this [TS]

01:58:50   just a mac just a single mag open a [TS]

01:58:55   document and she typed stop she likes [TS]

01:58:57   the right thing so just got a bunch of [TS]

01:58:58   writing paragraph you typed a bunch of [TS]

01:58:59   stuff then it was time for dinner to get [TS]

01:59:02   off the computer or something else [TS]

01:59:03   should say before you go and she [TS]

01:59:06   couldn't save your command s and gave [TS]

01:59:08   some error and I'm like really it's a [TS]

01:59:11   new untitled document created on a [TS]

01:59:12   single computer with no thinking about [TS]

01:59:14   whatsoever and I can't save and at that [TS]

01:59:18   point my god just go and do your thing [TS]

01:59:20   daddy will take care of this I couldn't [TS]

01:59:21   take care of it and there I couldn't I [TS]

01:59:24   couldn't save this document is an [TS]

01:59:25   untitled document I i could not say that [TS]

01:59:27   i had to copy and paste text out of it [TS]

01:59:29   put into text edit and save it somewhere [TS]

01:59:32   else and I don't know what the moral of [TS]

01:59:35   the story is but I just it's slowly [TS]

01:59:38   teaching me an important lesson like [TS]

01:59:40   Marco and plugging his pc and and [TS]

01:59:42   connecting up the mac that just just [TS]

01:59:44   never use anything that touches iCloud [TS]

01:59:47   or pages that were just as I don't know [TS]

01:59:48   what teaching you teaching me to be sad [TS]

01:59:50   and and it's it's a it's making the [TS]

01:59:53   unsuccessful it showing my daughter [TS]

01:59:55   anything about computers new document [TS]

01:59:58   type words it's a [TS]

01:59:58   type words it's a [TS]

02:00:00   complete utter failure she just has to [TS]

02:00:02   leave the room and when she comes back [TS]

02:00:04   have to say don't use that program [TS]

02:00:06   anymore just what I don't dumb ass daddy [TS]

02:00:10   why it's just it's too sad for words to [TS]

02:00:13   use and i had to use microsoft word [TS]

02:00:15   that's what I did because you know when [TS]

02:00:16   you make a new document according to [TS]

02:00:18   type words in it you save it save the [TS]

02:00:20   document pretty much every time i'm [TS]

02:00:22   pretty sure saves document local disk [TS]

02:00:25   and that's it [TS]

02:00:27   I one of the problems with like you know [TS]

02:00:29   as as we've gotten so much more advanced [TS]

02:00:32   in the technology it's also gotten so [TS]

02:00:35   much more complicated that the basics [TS]

02:00:37   often don't work as reliable as they [TS]

02:00:39   used to because it's not as basically [TS]

02:00:41   you think it's basic you think I'm just [TS]

02:00:43   saving a document to local disk but some [TS]

02:00:46   that like it basically i mean if i want [TS]

02:00:47   to put on my computer and for a second I [TS]

02:00:49   thought pretty sure what happened is a [TS]